Talk:Iole

message: What does that image have to do with this article?? J. Van Meter 02:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reading Sophocles' Women of Trachis might help. --Akhilleus (talk) 04:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: "Eurytus years earlier had taught Heracles to become an archer.[3]"  This sentence appears at the end of the paragraph concerning the archery contest as if someone is telling a joke and forgot to mention a crucial fact until after the punch line.  It sounds like a stream of consciousness rather than a well-thought out treatise.
"When the king seen it was Heracles winning,..."  Seen it?!  Who is writing this?!  How can this be a Did You Know article?  This is atrocious. Kwyjibear (talk) 01:56, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed the latter sentence, but I'm sure there are more copyediting issues that remain. As I have indicated above, the substance of the article is a deeper concern. --Akhilleus (talk) 02:18, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Akhilleus for the better grammer. I believe ""realized" is better wording than "seen" - which is what I meant to say. In the Random House Thesaurus the word "see" can also mean perceive, apprehend, grasp, "be cognizant of", "be aware of" and realize. Your wording is better however. --Doug Coldwell talk 13:39, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

text: "Eurytus years earlier had taught Heracles to become an archer.[3]" - shows the irony here. Since Eurytus taught Heracles archery one would think that Eurytus would be the better archer, however Heracles scores higher. A great archer, he taught Heracles to use the bow. --Doug Coldwell talk 13:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Apollodorus seems to give us the most complete story followed by slight variations of his from Seneca and Ovid. Other ancient sources (i.e. Diodorus Siculus, Gaius Julius Hyginus) have similar information on Iole with additional variations. 
I quote this as it stands; it is ungrammatical, diffuse, and uninformative. (It also indicates a fundamental procedural error of confounding the mythographers with literary treatments - and it omits Sophocles. But that is another set of howlers altogether. ) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:22, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Structure and Grammar

message: I'm a bit confused by this section. We have what appears to be a series of quotes from Ovid Heroides 9, and each is said to be from "another version". But they're all from the same work, aren't they? --Akhilleus (talk) 02:48, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Corrected wording to show it is Ovid Heroides 9. --Doug Coldwell talk 12:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Other versions" 

message: *Graves, §§144, 145, 146.
**Ath. xi 461
**Ps. Apol. ii 7 7
**Ps. Plut. Fab. Par. 13(Nicias of Mallus)
**Hyg. 35, 36
**Hom. Β 596, 730, φ 13-14
**Serv. apud viii 291
**Str. ix 5 17, x 1 10, 18; ix 40,10
**AL 4, 33 (Pherecydes)
**Paus. iv 2.2, 3.6, 33.5f, 27.4
**DS iv 38f
**Pl. NH xxv 21
**Soph. Trach. 44-5, 283 ff, 460-751, 912-fin
**Ov, 9, 155 ff
*Graves' theory, which we should mention, rather than adopting, is iconotropy of an image of the Great Goddess, in full Minoan skirt, hovering over Oechalia, which he translates as "house of bread". If this is oikos + halis, it is unsound in meaning and formation, but better than most of Graves' Greek.
*He argues that the legend as we have it is physically possible, saying that his father saw an example. There is (another?) off one of the bridges of Bristol; this may be interesting enough to include.
*The last Strabo is Hyllus marrying Iole; Graves calls this the tanist marrying the queen. He does not explain why the goddess isn't Deianeira (and he also calls Poeas, or Philoctetes, who lit the pyre, the tanist.) 
*Brill'sche Pauly
**Hes. Cat. fr. 26,31a
**Apollod. 2,6,1-3; Diod. Sic. 4,31,37
**Bacch. 16
**Creophylus, Capture of Oechalia, EpGF
**Panyassis of Halicarnassus, Heraclea."
Shouldn't the Graves source and above reference material be put into the article? --74.219.90.114 (talk) 23:25, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *Don't understand what the issue is for Graves 144, 145, 146 from the unsigned editor. Where is this referenced and what is this concerning?--Doug Coldwell talk 17:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: ::*Don't understand what the issue is for Graves 144, 145, 146 from the unsigned editor. Where is this referenced and what is this concerning?--Doug Coldwell talk 17:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment by user who has never consulted this standard source

message: Concerning the "Expand" template - isn't it assumed already that short articles probably should be expanded by others that would have knowledge on the subject? There doesn't seems to be anything in particular asked for in any section. What specifically should be expanded, so that the template is no longer needed? If the editor that entered the template has additional specific information on the subject they are interested in or a specific section - why not enter it to make the section complete. If there isn't anything specific, then I assume the template isn't necessary. --Doug Coldwell talk 17:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No; some articles contain all the available information, or as much as will conveniently fit in an article. This one, however, is an incompetent wsaste of space which will need to be rewritten from real sources as soon as possible. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:02, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Where did the expand template come from, anyway? I think there's a good argument to be made for contracting this article. As I've already said, Iole is a minor character in these stories, and I imagine they're covered (or at least should be) at articles like Deianeira, Heracles, Sack of Oechalia, etc. --Akhilleus (talk) 19:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The matter of Oechalia should be here, or possibly there; notice that neither that article nor the Sack exists. But what I meant by the tag was that this article should mention Sophocles at least as much as Ovid. I suppose there are two ways to do that. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

text: On the contrary, there may well be nothing in Ovid which isn't derived from Sophocles; but any article on this subject which doesn't mention the 'Trachinae is incomplete. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Doug, have you any idea why the extensive quoting of primary sources is discouraged? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No. --Doug Coldwell talk 22:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Then read WP:PRIMARY. We are not an indiscrimate heap of cut-and-paste quotes (that's the Web, which we are trying to improve upon). Civilized editors have other reasons not to pass off Jebb's fin-de-siecle prose as Sophocles, if only so that somebody will read the article (not to mention fairness to the poor man); but all we should do here is describe literary uses of Iole. That's one paragraph for Sophocles, another for Ovid.  Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expanding article 

message: i've replaced the image at the top of the page because according to the entry here, the painting is a depiction of Omphale and not Iole. J. Van Meter (talk) 16:01, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image change 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified