Talk:Characters of the Final Fantasy VII series/Archive 1

message: Whilst I concede death seems the most likely fate of the character there is, from what I've read, no actual in-game evidence that Bugenhagen died.  He mysteriously left Cosmo Canyon during his period of illness. After this you can talk to a few NPCs in Cosmo Canyon to hear their reaction of his disappearance. During a conversation with one the party will "emerge" from Cloud, as often happens during key moments of the story.  Cloud also says at one point "Maybe we'll bump into him somewhere".  Whether this indicates a "Quest" to find Bugenhagen that was subsequently removed from the game I do not know, but his actual fate is left unconfirmed.  If I am wrong PLEASE correct me with the evidence, and if I am not a change should be made to the article.
Thanks
(138.253.205.70 21:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember him dying in his observatory with Red XIII by his side...can`t say exactly when it happens though. Plebmonk 23:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No evidence for Bugenhagen's "Death" 

message: It says weapon destoys everything that threatens the planet, doesn't weapon destroy everything when the planet is mortally threatened?
--Mr.Kickyourbutt 16:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weapon 

message: I've got to question this segment:  "Although the official Romanization of his name is indeed "Zack", the katakana rendition of his name is (in romaji) Zakkusu, which indicates a pronunciation of "Zax". It is unclear why this glaring discrepancy exists."  Especially considering X is actually a sneaky letter which is secretly a K followed by an S.  Try it, take an X and replace it with KS.  We do it in reverse all the time.  SNAX, TRAX, etc.  (In fact, there's many homonyms that demonstrate this: tax/tacks, sacks/sax, pox/pocks)  Now if I chose to Romanise something, which is *always* going to be some part arbitrary I could leave out the sibilant if I felt like it.  Hell, we go from Richard to Dick in English, why not "Zakkusu" to Zack.  It's really not that mind-boggling.  Oddly biased part removed.  - BalthCat 2006-01-22
:* I've restored some of BalthCat's edit after it was reverted - for one thing, a spelling correction was reverted, and the removal of the section on Zack's name seems unnecessary, and is uncited. Also, as BalthCat has said, it seems fairly obvious why Zack's name is not "Zax" - it's most likely because Zax isn't a popular, well-known name in English speaking countries, wheras Zack is. Pretty sure that Cloud does wear purple though. QmunkE 22:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Balth that it was POV.  If Square intended his name as Zack, the Japanese would have been Zakku.  There's nothing mind-boggling at all.  They can change a character named Hironobu in Japanese to being named Quentin in the English version if they want.  They're the creators.  Kasreyn 03:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

text: There's also the fact the name "Zack" and not "Zax" or something has been officially acknowledged by the Japanese (Japanese Advent Children site, Character page).—urutapu 15:21, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not noting it's spelled different; like the note says, the officially romanized name is Zack. I don't see how it's POV at all if all it's doing is pointing out that the Japanese katakana suggest a pronunciation different than the official name. It's the same thing as "Ryukku" to "Rikku" and "Tīda" to "Tidus". Also - "If Square intended his name as Zack, the Japanese would have been Zakku." Doesn't that just support my argument? Geg 15:50, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant just what I said.  He's Zakkusu in Japanese and Zack in English, and there's nothing wrong with that that I can see.  Kasreyn 17:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, so the note is simply noting the difference. It's done in pretty much every other character page where there's a difference in name pronunciations and/or spellings (such as Terra/Tina from FF6), so I still don't see why it shouldn't be noted here. And even if they "took liberties" while translating the name, that still doesn't mean it isn't notable that the Japanese pronunciation is different from the official translation's. Geg 18:07, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Zack

message: Each of the entries in the main player character section bears an introductory quotation, presumably modelled after the format of List of Final Fantasy VI characters. The thing is, I can't remember seeing these quotes in the game, or in any related material. I could be misremembering, but if they aren't drawn from an outside source, why are we placing them so prominently, as presenting them as quotations? – Seancdaug 21:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They are the character descriptions from the game manual, just looked them up. QmunkE 18:46, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Having lost my copy of the game manual years ago, could I ask that we get an in-article citation for them (by footnote, or whatever)? – Seancdaug 19:38, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Put a reference (of sorts) into the article - there doesn't appear to be a set template for citing manuals, and the manual doesn't contain much detail on the publisher/authors, but I've been advised just to use the book template. QmunkE 22:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whither quotations? 

message: It says "the the" when it should be "to the"
:Fixed. (you know you could have done this too, right?) --Pentasyllabic 01:43, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chocobo Sage!! 

message: Could some one more knowledgeable verify the May 14th edit by 69.41.101.237, which changed the phrase "Vincent is a former Turks gunman who was experimented on by Hojo approximately twenty-three years before the start of the game" to now read "thirty years"?  Mr. Cat 23:46, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vincent 

message: I'm a little concerned by the huge amounts of unneccessary material that keep getting added to supporting characters such as Hojo.  While it's all (or mostly) correct, it's not really notable.  We don't need to recap the whole plot of the game here, people!  It's especially bizarre that there is more info on Hojo than on the main character himself.  If someone feels Hojo is really this notable, create an article on him and move the material there.  I'm going to start trimming some of this fat in a few days.  Kasreyn 04:48, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was about to agree, but felt I should read the section first.  I couldn't remember Hojo as being that important a character from the games, but it seems like he's been developed more in other story-lines.  I suggest that perhaps trimming should be done by some one familiar with all the FFVII storylines, or that the page be explicitly declared only about FFVII the game before you cut out what might be important other-storyline information.  Mr. Cat 01:19, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proportions? 

message: The article for these three contains more information about these character. It does not, however, contain enough information to deem these three worthy of their own article. I suggest that that article be merged into this article. Mushrambo 05:12, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed: The article is also not something anyone would ever type in or search for directly.  Mr. Cat 06:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. ~ Flooch 08:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed Da'jhan 02:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Disagree: My assumption was that the characters listed on this page were part of the Final Fantasy game released for the playstation, and not characters involved in Advent Children.  Kntrabssi 05:25, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment: This page contains all the characters from the Compilations of Final Fantasy VII. It already has a section for Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo. I believe that the information from their seperate article should be trimmed and added to the character information for each character in this article. And I must ask that you check the article first before assuming. I checked that before suggesting the merge. Mushrambo 01:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo 

message: Since we keep adding stuff from the other parts of the compilation, why not just change it to "List of Compilation of Final Fantasy VII Characters"? urutapu 17:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Compilation of Final Fantasy VII"?  That sounds unwieldy.  I *do* support renaming the article to reflect that it is apparently not only FFVII core game content, but "Compilation of Final Fantasy VII" sounds like Engrish to me.  Mr. Cat 18:50, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, yeah, it's pretty weird, but it's the official name. o.o urutapu 01:03, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change to "Compilation of Final Fantasy VII"? 

message: ...is Bahamut SIN, not Bahamut Tremor. Bahamut SHIN, which is the Japanese term, means Bahamut TREMOR, but otherwise I have only heard the materia-summoned creature being referred to as Bahamut SIN. Vaguely 23:22, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, you've got two things the matter—firstly, to a Japanese speaker, "sin" and "shin" would sound incredibly similar to each other; as there is no true "si" sound in Japanese, "shi" is substituted in transliteration.  Secondly, shin doesn't mean tremor, to my knowledge. 震 doesn't seem to come on its own very often, and can be read as both shin and furu when conjugated, but never shin on its own.  I'm leaving a certain margin of error though; I apologize if I'm wrong.—urutapu 02:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kadaj's Summon

message: This article is bloating before my eyes.  I've been watching it for a while now and it continues to swell with more and more minute details about the characters, such as plot and story descriptions and other details not necessary for an encyclopedic overview.  A lot of this content is unnecessary, and the article needs to be trimmed.  Do we have any volunteers who've read and seen all the works involved who can trim this article down to an appropriate size?  Another benefit would be the addition of a header-box instructing fans of the series not to add every little detail they can recall. - BalthCat 01:41, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'm pretty knowledgeable about FFVII and Advent Children.  I've never played any of the other games in the Compilation.  It could stand a trim, especially the section on Hojo.  Kasreyn 22:37, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think some one edits Hojo at least once a week to add something else.  Actually lately it's been the Jenova entities that are getting their entries bloated. - BalthCat 23:18, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are we supposed to be including details about what the characters do, or who the characters are? It seems like we could significantly trim down the page if we cut out details about their actions and included more about just who the characters are. For example, the article on Zack could be easily trimmed down if we cut out some details and just explained a general overview of who he is, the importance of his role, and how he died.- Grant the Wise 13:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm sure that won't be necessary. In a perfect world, every character's mini-blurb on this article would be the same length as those given to the main characters. From what I see, that's entirely possible, though Zack and Hojo may need to be split into their own articles to do so (if Rufus has his own, why not them? They both are prominently featured in more than one Compilation game). Axem Titanium 03:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaming Wiki 

message: As far as I know, Wikipedia doesn't go through changing names every time a "more English" version is announced.  (See Yoghurt and Doughnut's non-US spelling.)  The original was Vice, so changing it is unnecessary.  Adding a section which adds the new spelling is fine.  Also, I tried looking for official square-enix sites about "Weiss" but found none.  Perhaps I was not sufficiently thorough, but even the fan sites referred to him first as Vice, then secondly as Weiss as an afterthought.  IMDB also lists the character as "Vice".  The change isn't necessary, but if you can provide me a link to an official non-fan site, it might be another story. - BalthCat 21:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I really don't see what the problem is. The simple fact is that his name is spelled Weiss in the English version of the game. As this is the English Wikipedia, that's the name that should be used. The fact that his name was only spelled "Vice" on Japanese websites, despite them being the SE sites, combined with the whole "color" thing, makes that spelling seem more like a case of Engrish than anything else. Wikipedia always changes names when more official English names surface. It happens all the time with anime and manga articles. The Splendiferous Gegiford 21:30, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was not only on Japanese sites, it was on other English fansites as well as IMDB.  Just show me a link to an official page that doesn't use Vice or Zvet. - BalthCat 21:43, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The official English site uses "the Tsviets".  I have both the game manual and strategy guide with me right now, both of which spell it "Weiss". I know of at least one other editor here who can vouch for that. The Splendiferous Gegiford 21:50, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Off topic, that site is terrible, I tried looking through it earlier and it's slow and ungainly.  On topic, I'm still not sure we SHOULD rename these articles, despite what happens on Anime pages, because the Japanese sites already defined the spelling of those characters in romaji.  Fan sites mostly use Vice, and the manual of style says to use the version most used.  ("cerberus vice" has 3x the google results as "cerberus weiss", for example) I think that changing the names is a waste of time, and don't agree.  However it's not worth arguing about (anymore).  However, at the very least you should go back into all the articles you have edited and explicitly state that the Japanese romanisation is "Vice" just as this article (before you changed it to new-English) showed "Weiss". - BalthCat
The Dirge of Cerberus section in the Advent Children Reunion Files uses Weiss.  I think Vice is just a case of Engrish, as the Reunion Files was actually translated by someone who is fluent in English.
Chibi Gohan 18:34, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

text: P.S.  Every name of a Tsviet is a word for a color.  Rosso the Crimson = Red (in Italian, I believe) the Red.  Azul the Cerulean = Blue (in Spanish) the Blue.  And Weiss is German for white.  It's simplicity itself to understand that the character's name is intended to be "Weiss"; "Vice" is the pronunciation of that German word.  Kasreyn 20:54, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vice/Weiss 

message: *Could somebody source the ages of the Tsviets? I'ne not seen the info presented anywhere else. --81.153.208.70 09:13, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ages

message: I think Reeve was an under appreciated character in FF7, but a minor one nonetheless; however, his role certainly expanded in Dirge of Cerberus. Does anyone have any problem with starting an article for him? It may also help the bloating of the page. --Cao Wei 02:00, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reeve Tuesti

message: From the section for Genesis:
In the G Reports, the text mentions that he draws his power from the "G Substance" (a.k.a. The Stagnation of the Lifestream in the NA version).
It's called Stagnation of the Lifestream in the Japanese version too (the 'a.k.a.' bit sounds like it's saying that it wasn't to me), whereas 'G  Substance' is something coined by fans. Should a term created by fans be used instead of that? 
But either way, the G Reports (in Japanese, and AFAIK English as well) say nothing about where he draws his powers from at all. Is this just another fan-made thing as well? Kamina 22:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Genesis

message: In Final Fantasy VII Sephiroth's powers were said to be unreal that he was so powerful. But, is Genesis more powerful than Sephiroth? I sure hope not. I think this would also make a great piece of the Genesis portion of the page.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.7.180.238 (talk • contribs) 
One of the developers has said nobody is stronger than Sephiroth (though that leaves room for an equal) and that Sephiroth has the strongest willpower of anyone in the FF7 universe. It is also generally recognized that he was not even close to putting his full effort into the battle in Advent Children. Genesis may be to the DeepGround SOLDIERs what Sephiroth is to standard SOLDIER, but he is definitely not stronger. In one of the trailers for Crisis Core, BOTH Angeal and Genesis are shown taking on Sephiroth at once.... and Sephiroth *easily* holds his own against them (though it does not show if he wins the fight). Even if he loses the fight, it takes both Angeal and Genesis to beat him, making him definitely stronger than either. 71.120.201.39 19:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something's bothering me... 

message: A wiki-message appears at the top of the editing page suggesting that we spilt the article into smaller pieces. How will we go about doing this? I recomend that split characters into:
#Final Fantasy VII (Game) 
#Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
#Dirge of Cerberus:Final Fantasy VII
Input please Gavin Scott 20:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just because the article is longer than Wiki's guidelines indicate, does not mean it should be split into more articles. Having all the characters in the universe of FFVII (not including the connection to FFX, obviously, since they're in VERY different timelines, even though the creators did have the idea that they could be connected) on one page is much more efficient for anyone looking for a character. Moving the Dirge of Cerberus characters to a new page is somewhat reckless, when you have not had any feedback on the situation. Nique talk 03:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

text: With work I think that's the best solution. Most other series' that I've seen seem to do this too. Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross characters are seperate lists, for example. However, there aren't all that many new characters, really. Would it perhaps be better to have a "Compilation of Final Fantasy VII" list? Onikage725 18:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article is too long