Talk:Mythology of Final Fantasy X/Archive 1

message: The following nouns should be capitalized consistently throughout the article:
*The Calm
*Hymn of the Fayth
*Chamber of the Fayth
*Final Aeon
*Final Summoning
*Crimson Blade(s)
*Crusader(s)
*Chocobo Knights
*Four Maesters of Yevon
*New Yevon
*Youth League
*Machine Faction
*Gullwing(s)
*Leblanc Syndicate
*Lord (when used as a title before a name)
*Lady (when used as a title before a name)
*Sir (when used as a title before a name)
*Father (when used as a title before the given name of a priest)
*Cap'n
*Al Bhed
*Guado
*Hypello
*Ronso
*Eternal Calm
*Names of all people and places
*For our purposes here, "Church of Yevon" will be capitalized, but when using just "the church" in reference to the order, it will not be
The following nouns should not be capitalized consistently throughout the article (unless otherwise specified below):
*blitzball
*pyreflies
*sphere(s)
*sphere pool(s)
*fayth
*aeon(s)
*fiend(s)
*sent
*unsent
*guardian(s)
*legendary guardian(s)
*summoner(s) (except in the case of it being useda specific individual's title; for instance: "Summoner Yuna")
*high summoner (except in the case of it being useda specific individual's title; for instance: "High Summoner Ohalland")
*maester(s) (except in the case of it being used a specific individual's title before their name; for instance: "Maester Seymour")
*grand maester(s) (except in the case of it being used a specific individual's title before their name; for instance: "Grand Maester Mika")
*captain (perhaps unless used as a specific individual's title before their name; there is no case of it having been used as such to verify this, however, except the Aurochs' use of the similar "Cap'n Wakka")
*captain of the guard (perhaps unless used as a specific individual's title before their name; there is no case of it having been used as such to verify this, however)
*warrior monk(s)
*priest(s) (referred to before their given name by the title "Father"; for instance: "Father Zuke")
*high priest(s) (perhaps unless used as a specific individual's title before their name; there is no case of it having been used as such to verify this, however; may also be referred to by the tile of "Father," though, again, though here has been use of it in reference to a high priest to confirm this)
*acolyte(s) (perhaps unless used as a specific individual's title before their name; there is no case of it having been used as such to verify this, however)
*praetor(s) (except in the case of it being used a specific individual's title before their name; for instance: "Praetor Baralai")
*maeyvn(s) (except in the case of it being used a specific individual's title before their name; for instance: "Maevyn Nooj")
*teaching(s) [of Yevon]
*sending(s)
*pilgrimage [of the summoners]
*machina
*temple(s) (unless it's used in the name of specific temples; for instance: "Macalania Temple")
*spiral of death
*sphere hunter(s)
(Ryu Kaze Updated at 14:43, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes on Capitalization 

message: I've just removed several  (a.k.a.  tags) from the article. Such tricks are essentially dirty hacks that should only be used to resolve serious layout issues (such as overlapping divs, or horizontal image stacking), not to ensure that images show up exactly where intended. Overuse of it creates too much excess white space, which is just messy looking. See also Wikipedia:Picture tutorial#Forcing a break. – Seancdaug 21:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the assist. I'm not too familiar with those things. By the way, can we keep "Spiral of Death" capitalized in the "chapter" title? It's fine if the "section" titles don't remain fully capitalized -- and actually looks better that way (good move) -- but that just looks really odd, especially since the other chapter titles remain consistently capitalized. Ryu Kaze 21:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding force-breaking of images

message: Nice page, guys - don't forget to keep the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Final_Fantasy/Index up to date though! >Gamemaker 10:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Housekeeping

message: Kudos to both Piccolo and Ryu Kaze, it looks great! I added a bit about the pyrefly / Spirit energy theory , hopefully just fact not POV. And also added a bit about fiends and unsent, other byproduct of pyrefly magic. We could perhaps also add a reference to here on FFVII's page too. Renmiri 17:39, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the compliments, Ren, but you should pat yourself on the back, as well. It was your suggestion, after all. Ryu Kaze 23:12, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, the spiritual energy section you added wasn't a bad idea at all. I just reworded it a little and replaced your link with one to the most current version of that author's essay. The section on Fiends and Unsent, though, is already covered in-depth under the "Pyreflies and death" section. As for a reference to this page over on the Final Fantasy VII page, feel free to try to work it in somehow if you can. I don't have any objections to that and the subject matter is related... and most of your ideas so far have been really good, so I'm not going to start doubting you now. Ryu Kaze 23:31, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks good but the link to Squall's article can not be to GAMEFAQ. Try it and you will see what happens. The GAMEFAQ site links you to a page that says GameFAQs is not a free public file server. Bandwidth costs money, and when sites link directly to files stored on the site, it becomes both a financial and resource drain. We've tried asking, but some sites simply don't care, so now we've implemented a technical solution.. That is why I was linking to the older version of his article... Do you have another source less stingy than GAMEFAQ ?
Yeah, I've got another link to it, this time on IGN: http://faqs.ign.com/articles/657/657331p1.html Ryu Kaze 05:23, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

text: It looks like this thing is really starting to come together. The edits of the last couple of days have really brought it to life. I'm fully convinced at this point that this was a great idea and worth-while endeavour. Great idea once again, Renmiri. And, hey, we're still under the 15 image fair-use thing! Ryu Kaze 13:52, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the page is looking great IMHO. I see Ryu has been having a lot of fun with the "quotes" tag... <grin> Great, I doubt anyone will be able to say we need documentation after all those quotes from the game! Renmiri 18:40, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

text: By the way, no offense to Spira, PiccoloNamek, but this page is now my official favorite on Wikipedia. Ryu Kaze 19:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, indeed! Ryu Kaze 22:44, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Very nice work

message: Does anyone see any reason why Hymn of the Fayth and Machina (Final Fantasy X) can't be merged here ? And how about Suteki Da Ne ? Shouldn't it be merged to the Soudtrack page ? Renmiri 19:05, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in full agreement with you, Ren (which seems to be becoming a trend). At the very least, the Hymn and Machina pages should be merged in here. Not sure if there's some kind of music loophole that would keep Suteki Da Ne around, so I'll let someone else weigh in on that. Ryu Kaze 19:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't believe one obscure song would qualify as a page that should be kept but let's wait for more input. On the same note The end of Yevon and the Birth of New Yevon reeks as a page and shoud be merged here IMHO. Renmiri 20:26, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

text: We should leave Suteki da ne alone. A lot of popular songs have their own pages. Liberi Fatali, One Winged Angel, Aria di Mezzo Carattere, and Eyes on Me all have their own pages. If it's notable enough (and SDN is) it will usually have its own page.PiccoloNamek 22:45, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. But Hymn of the Fayth can get the axe, right? And Machina and The end of Yevon and the Birth of New Yevon? Ryu Kaze 23:09, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

text: It sounds good to me. I think it should go under the "Practices" section under the Church, though. Not only does the description you wrote relate more to the idea of it as a practice, but it'll flesh that section out more. Ryu Kaze 00:04, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There we go. Moved and slightly expanded. Very slightly. Ryu Kaze 00:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I did the same at Wikibooks. Also I couldn't resist and copied the Mythology page there Renmiri 15:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Alright, cool. I've done the same with the other two and noted it in the edit history. The page is starting to get that beautiful complete feeling. I honestly can't think of a single thing to add to it at this point. Not sure if I should be disappointed or happy. I'll go for happy. You got any suggestions, guys? Ryu Kaze 00:56, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, that's cool too. And I agree. This will be one of the pages that will really shine if it can continue getting better than it already is. Ryu Kaze 08:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure someone will think of something else to add six months from now, but right now it looks pretty good and completed IMHO. And we merged almost 8 pages in it. Attaboy's all around <grin> Renmiri 15:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually the change to the title puzzled me - I'm not sure why the heading should read "Pyreflies and Spheres" when the latter receives only a couple of parenthesised references in what is essentially a discussion of the nature of pyreflies? >Gamemaker 23:32, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Looking just at this page you are correct, but coming from a link on FFVII you would be baffled as to why there barely a passig mention of  "spheres" in the whole page. It seems all the other game pages that mention the Mako / Pyrefly connection rarely talk about Pyreflies but most of them talk about FFX's spheres. I put "Spheres" on the title to help people unfamiliar with FFX Renmiri 20:14, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More Merging

message: Just a really quick note: there seems to be some confusion in the article over which nouns are proper and which aren't. We seem to alternate between "Aeon" (proper noun) and "aeon," and "spiral of death" and "Spiral of Death." Looking at the quotes, it seems that the games are not capitalizing these, so I was wondering why we are. It's a really minor issue, but I noticed it when I was going through and making some changes to the footnotes, so I thought I'd mention it here while it was still fresh in my mind. – Seancdaug 12:39, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I usually capitalize anything that's a title ("Eternal Calm," "Spiral of Death," "Aeon," "Unsent," "Fiend," etc.). Ryu Kaze 13:39, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely they're not all titles, though. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but none of them seem like titles to me: Final Fantasy X is a title, as is High Summoner, but "aeon" is a common noun, like "lion" (or any any group of beings, I suppose), which aren't capitalized. If the game isn't treating them as proper nouns, then it seems odd (and grammatically incorrect) for us to do so, IMO. – Seancdaug 19:55, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Aeons, the Eternal Calm and other terms like that were capitalized on FFX as you can see on the pic I added Renmiri 20:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A question about capitalization

message: Someone actually did a 300 pages dissertation on FFX Mythology for a Doctorate. Should we add a link ? Renmiri 20:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sweet. I'm for linking it! Ryu Kaze 00:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Renmiri 00:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Graduation thesis

message: Excellent work on the page; this is how a lot of pages should be treated. The magic page may even want to see this sort of level of prose. Deckiller 23:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks a lot, Deckiller. It's nice to hear. Ryu Kaze 01:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

text: That it is. It's my pride and joy of Wiki work thus far, and I don't imagine it losing that status any time soon. Ryu Kaze 01:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is impressive, guys. I initially had doubts as to whether or not it would even be possible to pull together so many topics effectively, but I'm glad to be proved wrong. Kudos all around! – Seancdaug 09:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good job 

message: Hey guys, I recommend submitting it to WP:GA as a selfnom and see if you can get it to at least that status. If not, then you should probably start a peer review. It may be jumping the gun, but the article looks good so far. Deckiller 23:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  This one is yours too, you helped a lot here Piccolo. PS: Did I do the GA thingy right ? Renmiri 01:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, you did it fine. We all did an excellent job on this article, whether it be from formatting to copyedits to information to citations...everyone who edited here deserves to be commended. Deckiller 01:50, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, well not quite. Cheer up, PN. As Ren said, this one's yours too. That makes two Good Articles under your belt (unless there's more I don't know about), so be smug and happy! Ryu Kaze 09:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article status 

message: If the events explained occur during the storyline, shoudln't the tenses be changed to present? Deckiller 01:10, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not, since FFX-2 would be considered the present, making events in FFX past tense. Ryu Kaze 09:25, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno: that seems to be overly technical to me. I think the "scholarly" standard is to write in the present tense unless it breaks the chronological flow. I don't think we need to establish FFX-2 as the "present" unless we're referring back to the events of the original FFX in a section primarily about FFX-2. But then, I'm not 100% sure of the proper way to address situations like this, and I don't think there's much of a consensus here on Wikipedia, anyway. It's probably not a problem, whatever the case may be. – Seancdaug 09:36, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tenses 

message: I've (temporarily) removed the map of Spira in response to Renmiri's comment that its placement "looked weird." We seem to be going back-and-forth on this a lot, so I wanted to discuss it here. Obviously, I can only speak to my personal aesthetic taste, but I find the inclusion of multiple lines of white space far worse looking than letting the image bleed down into the subsequent section. I can see this being a problem when you've got a left-aligned image, since it messes up the placement of the section header, but this isn't a problem with right-aligned images. Also, I'm really not comfortable using clear-breaking except where it's absolutely necessary to avoid catastrophic layout problems (like overlapping divs, or multiple-image stackups), and that doesn't seem to be the case here (correct me if I'm wrong, though). Wikipedia guidelines seem to echo this sentiment, too (though saying this certainly doesn't settle the issue, of course – just pointing it out). Leaving this all aside for the moment, since the appearance of the image is really all a matter of personal taste, it strikes me that the root of the problem is that there really isn't much text in the section on Spira, so it may not even be necessary to include the map at all, which would avoid this problem to begin with. Anyway, the map really deals with Spira as a geographic entity, whereas the section on this page doesn't really concern that. By way of comparision, the article on Greek mythology doesn't have to include a map of Greece. Thoughts?
:Removal is fine by me Renmiri 02:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is plenty on the game about "Spira's Spiral of death" but I don't recall seeing anything in English about the name Spira itself. But it sounds like a reasonable inference Renmiri 02:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and the game designers do have a thing for spirals Renmiri 02:15, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but it still makes me a bit uncomfortable. It's one thing to say that the symbolism is obvious, but it's another thing to state unequivocally that the designers intended something based on inference. What's obvious to you and me may not be obvious to others, and setting a precedent like this opens to door to other editors inserting their "reasonable inferences" as fact in less clear-cut situations. Barring a direct quotation, is there any way we could reword the passage so that it sounds a little less like we're making claims about the developers' intentions (something like, "as befitting its name, Spira is characterized by prevalent concepts of cycles and repetition..." rather than the saying the name is "based on" this or that)? – Seancdaug 02:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me Renmiri 03:45, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, and I also agree that the loss of the Spira map is fine. Now that it's gone it doesn't seem to matter all that much; Yuna's picture at the top prevents "dead space" until we get to the pyreflies. Ryu Kaze 09:25, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, wow. I didn't expect that anyone'd actually use my suggestion verbatim, Ryu: I just threw it together on the fly. I mean, I've no problem with it, I'm just surprised it was coherent to anyone other than myself <grin> – Seancdaug 09:36, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounded good to me. Ryu Kaze 09:44, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map of Spira 

message: Ummm... okay, I'm going to take that back out. It's not only redundant concerning the formation of fiends, but some of the info is wrong and some of the other info is unfounded speculation. Ryu Kaze 18:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, we want to keep this as succinct as possible. Deckiller 18:21, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I don't even recall having a "Pireflies and life" section. Good thing it is gone! Renmiri 18:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

text: BTW Ryu, weren't you going to do away with the cultural references and move it to magic ? Renmiri 18:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I took care of that. Are they still showing up on your browser? Ryu Kaze 18:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not anymore! Renmiri 17:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  That pyreflies and life section 

message: It's not like we don't already have enough FFX-related articles -- CHANLORD [T]/[C]  01:10, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge [[Unsent of Final Fantasy X]]