Talk:Red Barn Murder

message: The movie that was made of this case and is referred to at the bottom of the document was made in 1935.  I have therefore removed the further claim that Tom Waits had a song in that movie on the grounds that Tom Waits wasn't born until 1949.  --Stenun 12:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope you think this is a reasonable edit.  --Stenun 12:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait a minute, I think I might have made a mistake due to some poor wording *g*.  The way it was written, I took it to mean the film had a song by Tom Waits.  Was it meant to say that Tom Waits has written a song about this case that is completely unassociated from the movie?  --Stenun 12:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. I think it said "and" rather than "featuring". Yomanganitalk 12:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but it was the "and" that was the source of the confusion.  It was "a movie featuring Tom Slaughter and a song by Tom Waits" (roughly) or words to that effect.  I don't see the point in putting it back exactly as it was, I hope my new edit prevents any future confusion and still relays the information accurately.  --Stenun 21:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The movie version 

message: The article refers to William and Maria's child. What child is this? The reference is made as though we should know there was achild.
:The article had been vandalised and the section on the murder (which mentions the child) removed . Yomanganitalk 17:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What Child? 

message: Vaughan Williams. Trust me. qp10qp 16:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just laziness on not checking the link, sorry. Yomanganitalk 16:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ralphy

message: According to the "Execution and dissection" section: "Until early this century [William] Corder's skeleton was on display in the Hunterian Museum in the Royal College of Surgeons of England, where it hung beside that of Jonathan Wild. In response to requests from surviving relatives Corder's bones have since been quietly removed and given a proper burial."  I wonder who sourced this info?  Is the writer talking about the present?  Plus, I wonder if FindaGrave.com has recently added Corder to the list?  If so, can you find the info for me, please? --Angeldeb82 03:04, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the link you gave me won't show because it displayed an error.  Can you fix it? --Angeldeb82 21:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: sorry hopefully these assist in research. and for a 'history of the story and then --Edmund Patrick ( confer  work) 08:58, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: removed link in original statement - link above valid. Sorry for any confusion.--Edmund Patrick ( confer  work) 09:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Find-A-Grave says this "Cremated, Location of ashes is unknown. Specifically: Skeleton cremated in 2004; other remains on display at Moyse's Hall Museum at Suffolk." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:30, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Corder's burial?

message: Having only heard the one song Albion Country Band No Roses Murder of Maria Martin is it the same as Red Barn by Tom Waits. --Edmund Patrick 14:40, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's unlikely (even if neither of them are original there were a lot of songs composed in the aftermath) but you can listen to a bit of the Tom Waits' song at Amazon  if you already know what the other one sounds like. Yomanganitalk 14:55, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Songs 

message: is it me? but the box says that it was a featured aricle in 2006. I thought it was coming in 2007. --Edmund Patrick ( confer  work) 09:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear User:SandyGeorgia looking at the history of red barn and did you know I believe I confused featured article with did you know listing ( dates for featured articles are peer review 17 Feb. 07 and featured article candidate 24th Feb. 07.) and so thought the 06 date was wrong. Apologies Edmund Patrick ( confer  work) 21:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you all squared away now?  I'm not sure, but you also seem to be confusing the day it appears on main page with when it was featured: two different things.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  red barn murder featured article 

message: I see that in the opening paragraphs it is not mentioned that the murder happened in Polstead. The way it's worded could suggest to readers unfamiliar with East Anglia that the name of the village in question is Suffolk. Dancarney (talk) 09:54, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polstead 

message: I created the Find A Grave profiles on William Corder and Maria Marten if you wish to add anything to the References section, all right? --Angeldeb82 (talk) 21:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now both removed fron here, it seems. But in any case, Maria's is no longer easy to find. I have added this image :File:Memorial to Maria Marten - geograph.org.uk - 615930.jpg at the Polstead article. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Find A Grave profiles 

message: I am resetting (again) the lead image size per WP:MOS#Images:  
*Specifying the size of a thumbnail image is not recommended: without specifying a size, the width will be what readers have specified in their user preferences, with a default of 180px (which applies for most readers), and a maximum of 300px. However, the image subject or image properties may call for a specific image width to enhance the readability or layout of an article. Cases where a specific image width is appropriate include:
** images with extreme aspect ratios
** detailed maps, diagrams or charts
** images in which a small region is relevant, but cropping to that region would reduce the coherence of the image 
** a lead image that captures the essence of the article (recommended not to be smaller than 300px, as this will make the image smaller for users who have set 300px in their user preferences).
SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead image size

message: In 19th century England a farmer and a squire were from distinct tiers of society, and the context of the relationship is very different depending on the young man's social class. The introduction states that he was a squire's son, but the rest of the article doesn't seem to support this. It is stated that he "returned to run the farm": if he was running a farm, then he wasn't a squire, he was a yeoman farmer. A squire would rent out most or all of his land, and he was a member of the gentry. He was upper class, a "gentleman". A farmer was middle class. A farmer could become romantically involved with a molecatcher's daughter, or even marry her, without offending 19th century social norms, but a squire could not.  Abberley2 (talk) 00:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: fair comment and glad it was removed. He was a son of a yeoman farmer who rented the farm which he worked. Edmund Patrick –  confer 12:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Farmer's son or squire's son?

message: What is "Brewers" cited in the article?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.126.224.229 (talk) 21:59, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A little question.. 

message: Anyone know where the barn stood? Locals must know of it, I mean, its a famous story. --RyanTee82 (talk) 03:21, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's a blog link which has a video clip. May be of interest. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:48, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Where was the barn?

message: I have recently read the book written by Donald McCormick referenced in this section and he claims that Caroline Palmer discovered that Samuel 'Beauty' Smith confessed to being the murderer, not a Gypsy woman as stated here. Palmer's tale of Smith's involvement was that he was about to rob the Corder household, hence was hiding in the barn, and saw Maria and Will Corder struggle and a gun went off. Maria collapsed and Will ran away. Smith then stabbed Maria to finish her off as she had seen him. Will then returned, realised Maria was dead and buried the body - assuming that the shot had killed her. This supports Will's testimony that he did shoot her but not stab her even though stab wounds were found on the body.
I suggest that "Caroline Palmer in researching the murder (she was appearing frequently in the melodrama based on the case) discovered that Corder may have not killed Maria, but that a local gypsy woman might have been the killer." be replaced by "Caroline Palmer in researching the murder (she was appearing frequently in the melodrama based on the case) discovered that Corder may have not killed Maria, but that Samuel 'Beauty' Smith might have been the killer." 
Apologies if I'm not doing this right - first attempt at interacting with Wikipedia. Louise 86.128.81.202 (talk) 15:22, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumours 

message: I remember reading in Ripley's Believe It or Not  that there was some sort of ghost story about Maria Marten.  If good documentation for this can be found, it would be a useful addition to the article. HammerFilmFan (talk) 09:02, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ghost story . . . 

message: Am surprised there is no mention of the melodrama by Samuel French, which has been adapted, with a score, by Brian J. Burton: . In fact, Burton's site claims:"This has been performed thousands of times all over the world and has been a recommended text for schools for several years." But I can't find a date for the original French edition. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:26, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Melodrama by French 

message: So there was an assertion that the song "Murder in the Red Barn" was about this incident, based on citing this link to the the lyrics (and presumably on the title to the song). Here's an alternative link to the lyrics, from Waits' official site. Now in the absence of a secondary source, I'd say it's original research to come to this conclusion, especially as the only things that the lyrics have in common with this murder are the words "murder" and "red barn" there's nothing else to suggest the song is about Maria Marten. And, this quote from the lyrics suggests it isn't:
You can hear the Buckshot hounds/ 
The watchman said to Reba the loon/ 
Was it pale at Manzanita/ 
Or Blind Bob the racoon?/ 
Pin it on a drifter/ 
They sleep beneath the bridge/ 
One plays the violin/ 
And sleeps inside a fridge
Possums also get a mention, later on.
Anyway, that's why I've removed the Tom Waits reference. 95.150.42.220 (talk) 18:32, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: On second thoughts, I've tracked down some third party comment about the song's possible inspiration and have added Tom Waits back to the article, with this context. 95.150.42.220 (talk) 11:51, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed the reference to Tom Waits 

message: I have recently published a book detailing the results of a brand new investigation into the Red Barn murder. Murder in the Red Barn, . Extracts from the book can be read here http://www.mirlibooks.com/extract-from-murder-in-the-red-barn.html. Several myths concerning the Red Barn case have been exploded, and reasonable hypotheses are offered for the two great mysteries: did Ann Martin/Marten really have those dreams? And why did Corder deny to the end that he stabbed Maria? 
Positive evidence has been found that Donald McCormick included material in his book that was manufactured to make a good story. One of the alleged key players in the Red Barn was ‘Beauty Smith’. Using the latest data on transportees and material from the National Library of Australia I have been able to trace his history and show that Donald McCormick’s claims about him could not possibly be true http://www.mirlibooks.com/beauty-smith.html. 
I invite Wikipedia editors to view this material and decide whether to include and/or link it to the main page. I have gone back to primary sources: contemporary reports, documents and press reports, in the preparation of this new account of the Murder in the Red Barn.--Peter Maggs 17:56, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that a new section has now been added by new editor User:Puzz623. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:33, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: New Investigation

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Linked this in a draft of mine, and followed the link to discover it an FA. I believe the FA star is certainly still applicable; nonetheless, aside from the same sandwiching issues at the same author's The Four Stages of Cruelty, there are a few sentences where an earlier era's looseness with inline cites is visible:
* (#Trial)
* (#Execution and dissection)
* (#Rumours)
*Multiple spots under #Popular interest, mostly of the same nature as this (individual sentences)
These are all fairly obvious cases of "something that wasn't considered likely to be challenged, and where the description given by the sentence itself was considered sufficient to verify it". Indeed this is still permissible by policy, but modern FACs would probably challenge them. Still, I don't doubt the same (print) sources used elsewhere in the article could easily be used by someone with access to cite them; if any did turn out to have verification issues, they're also all small enough to be easily resolved. Like the author's other works, the article is generally excellent and should be marked satisfactory at URFA. Vaticidalprophet 15:52, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Unreviewed featured articles/2020/2004–2009]]