Talk:Battle of Mokra

message: Idiotic phrases as "armoured detachment" and "mounted artillery detachment" have been changed to "armoured battalion" and "mounted artillery battalion", respectively. The Polish word "dywizjon" should be translated as "battalion", not "detachment". Look guys, it's 1/4-1/3 of artillery/armoured regiment, while detachment is simply "oddział"
Musashi.
:Look whom we have here! Thanks for the feedback, Musashi, I really appreciate your comments. As to specific issues you raised - there is a serious problem in translating the Polish military terms to English. The very word dywizjon is really problematic, as it might mean basically anything, from unit, through detachment, command, air wing, detached group, flotilla, battalion, half of battalion or any other small unit. It all depends on the context. So, in other words, an artillery dywizjon might indeed be artillery battalion, while an armoured dywizjon might be much, much smaller than actual armoured battalion. Hence my translation. Halibutt 11:24, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Old stuff (section title added 1/9/2012)

message: Wouldn't it be more appropriate to get rid of the mention of Silesia? Mokra is not geographically in Silesia, it is simply in the Silesian Voivodship, but a few dozen kilometers from what is geographically, historically and linguistically known as Silesia (Śląsk). I'll check for a more apropriate geographical term.
arczi 23:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Geographically Mokra belongs to Wieluń Uplands (wyżyna wieluńska in Polish), but that term is fairly unknown even in Poland. What's more, the area of Częstochowa does not belong to any specifically-designed historical region as it changed hands quite often. It's a part of the Kraków-Częstochowa Upland, but also a part of historical Silesia and even at times of Greater Poland (sic!). Besides, the city is rather a modern settlement (both villages merged in 19th century), so it doesn't really fit well into the mediaeval scheme of historical regions, I'm afraid. //Halibutt 00:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Then maybe we could describe it as "North-West of Częstochowa" rather than "in Silesia"? arczi 12:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

text: "but also a part of historical Silesia" No ! It isnt´t true !!! :-(  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4C80:40:493:CA1F:66FF:FE49:EA1A (talk) 21:40, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mokra in Silesia? 

message: Thanks, the article seems much better now. Molobo, no need to react that strongly, his changes seem acceptable, at least to me. Or am I missing something here? //Halibutt 09:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jadger's copyedits 

message: I was trying to glean some information about early use of anti-tank weapons in the Second World War, so looked here.
Why are only Polish sources used for the article? There are German sources also.
Why is no information given about the German troops that participated? Its not hard to find:
4th Panzer Division had 7th Panzer Brigade, composed of 35th and 36th Panzer Regiments and was commanded by General-Major Georg Hans Reinhardt.
In August of 1939, each Panzer Regiment was composed of two Panzer Abteilungs. Each Abteilung was composed of two light companies (equipped with PzKpfw I and II) and one medium company (equipped with PzKpfw III and IV) along with other units. Each Abteilung had 71 to 74 tanks including 5 command tanks, each Regiment had 150 to 156 tanks including 12 command tanks. Single division had 308 to 316 tanks including 26 command tanks.
Of the other German divisions, the 31st Infantry Division seems to have been hardly involved in the battle having quickly fallen behind.
Each Panzer Division had its own infantry, reconnaissance, artillery, transport, communication, medical, technical and general services component. At the time, 4th Panzer Division lacked some infantry and anti-tank units
No infantry (mounted on motorcycles) was present in the battle, with the reconnaissance troops having moved out of the way of the tanks.
Counting all the tanks in the division would produce about 1,000 German personnel involved in the combat. However, the article claims 800 as German losses! One forum suggests - It is estimated that up to 30% of all German armour casualties in this battle were suffered by 4. Panzer-Division - the majority of them were casualties of its Panzer-Regiment 36. The vast majority of the remaining 70+% of German armour casualties in this battle were suffered by 1. Panzer-Division.
And yet there are records that show 1st Panzer Division continuing its advance.
This is because German accounting is quite different:
:Pz.Rgt.35 - 14 tanks burnt out, ca. 25 - 30 more knocked out.; losses among tank crews: 15 KIA, 14 WIA
:Pz.Rgt.36 - at least 10 tanks burnt out, over a dozen more knocked out; losses of tank crews: 7 KIA, 13 WIA
:Stab Pz.Brig. - unknown tank losses; 1 officer wounded
:Among the burnt out tanks were 11 Pz-Is and a bit more (14?) Pz-II. At least 1 Pz-IV from PR.35 was knocked out.
:In total about 70 tanks were disabled; losses of tank crews: 22 KIA (2 officers), 28 WIA (at least 4 officers).
:Officers killed: Hptm. Buz, Lt. Lohr (both KIA near Mokra III)
:Most losses of tank crews were sustained near Mokra III (15 KIA), the remaining near Mokra I and Mokra II.
On 01.09.1939 (at the beginning of the campaign) PR.35 had 177 tanks operational
On 08.09.1939 (before the assault on Warsaw) PR.35 had 120 tanks operational (losses 1 - 8/IX: 57+ tanks)
:From the document on irrecoverable tank losses of 1. & 4. Pz.Div. in period 01.09.1939 - 14.09.1939:
:(the document comes from AAN - Archiwum Akt Nowych - archive in Warsaw)
It seems to me a gross and clear case of WP:NPOV Koakhtzvigad (talk) 14:01, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you notice this article's been pretty much stable for years now? Apparently noone with access to German-language literature was interested in editing it. Be sure to add anything you believe fits - provided you add sources as well. //Halibutt 08:51, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  One sided and biased/unlikely account 

message: For WP:POLAND. Agree with previous milhist review, the citations are insufficient. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 19:45, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: B-class review: failed

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion