Talk:List of family relations in the NHL/Archive 1

message: Can anyone think of a better way to show families like the Hulls or Howes. Listing them under Brothers, Fathers/Sons, and Nephews/Uncles seems almost redundant, and there must be a better way to show it.
Also, I took Shayne Corson/Darcy Tucker out of Cousins. They are actually Brothers in Law (Darcy married Shaynes sister.. or possibly vice versa) Priester 11:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made the "Uncle-Nephews" list smaller, by removing names, that are already in the "Brothers" & "Father-Sons" sections. GoodDay 23:57, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better Way to show large families 

message: Yes, Troy is Sidney Crosby's father, and yes he was drafted by the Montreal Canadiens. However Troy Crosby never played a single NHL game, or Managed, Coached , or refereed/linsemen a game. The only claim to fame (that I know of), is he sired Sidney, is this enough to add his name? Since this is just my PoV, I won't remove the "Crosby" entry on the "Father-Son(s)" list. GoodDay 15:13, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Troy Crosby? 

message: The flags are nice.  But why no international ones?  Does anyone want to do it?  If not, I will do it later. Canuck89 00:46, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Flags

message: Can someone please provide a verifiable reference that shows Ulf and Kjell are not brothers? I've provided a link  that states "Philadelphia assistant coach Kjell Samuelsson is the brother of former AHL defenseman Ulf Samuelsson", taken from the AHL's official website (a verifiable source). The Hockey Draft Central site is a personal website owned by  a guy named Daniel L. David, and cannot be considered verifiable (plus it never says they aren't brothers). Other than an obscure Scott Cullen column on TSN, I can't find any information that these two are not related. Please provide a source. Yankees76 16:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind. Upon further review it appears that the information on www.theAHL.com is incorrect. Ufl and Kjell are not related. My error. Yankees76 16:34, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been pointed out that Hockey Draft Central (as a personal website) isn't a verifiable source. I was wondering, would the Wiki Community wish me to remove it from the article (Leaving only the HHOF reference)? GoodDay 18:26, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samuelsson Brothers 

message: While it is known that Scott and Joe Thornton are cousins, does anyone have any source that Shawn Thorton is related to them, too? I noticed this entry and I can't seem to find any information that verifies that claim. NeoChaosX 06:42, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there are no objections or verfications, I'm removing it. NeoChaosX 20:18, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

text: It was brought up by the Sharks' radio announcer during a broadcast of the Sharks-Ducks preseason game. I'm thinking of undoing that change again, though, since I still can't find anything that verifies the relation. NeoChaosX  [talk | contribs] 06:47, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've found nothing that supports it either. Yankees76 19:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Thornton cousins

message: How about Henrik and Joel Lundqvist, they are twins and Joel has recently signed a contract with the Dallas Stars. --Krm500 01:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Only if/when Joel attends his first game (with the Stars), in the regular season or playoffs. Heck, even if he's just on the Stars bench (as a backup). GoodDay 13:18, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Joel is not a goalie, he is a center, he won gold with team Sweden in the WHC this year.--Krm500 22:49, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops! Sorry, was half-asleep. If/when Joel is suited up for a 'Dallas Stars' regular season or playoffs game, then add him to the article. However, again the Wiki community has the final word. GoodDay 13:34, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lundqvist twins 

message: Guys, please do not add siblings etc. that haven't done anything in the NHL. As noted above (in the Troy Crosby case in particular), being drafted doesn't warrant inclusion into this article. So wait Jordan actually suits up before throwing his (or other players) names on the list. There are no prizes in Wikipedia for being the first person make the edit. Yankees76 18:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jordan Staal - read before adding 

message: Just looking over the list and thinking about it and the article title, I have a question.  It may sound flippant, but I think it needs to be asked.
Just what in the world is the word 'notable' doing there?
Seriously, take a look at the list.  Are Kris and Randy Manery notable?  (better question from me: just who the heck are they, period?)  The Pooley twins?  The Bordeleaus?  Families?  Yes.  Notable?  Hardly.
Either we need to get rid of the word 'notable' from the title or the article needs serious filtering. Aottley 02:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you know how to change the title, go ahead. The idea of Wikipedia is to improve articles, your idea's are as welcomed & as important as anyone's. How about, Families in the NHL. GoodDay 12:49, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  I've changed the title to remove the word "notable" and to denote that it's a list.  I've also fixed the resulting double-redirects. Aottley 19:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy of the article title 

message: What about Chuck and Bryan Lefley?
:Just added them to the 'brothers' section, thanks for pointing out their absence. GoodDay 20:02, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lefleys 

message: All of these relations really need sources. What's the source for the claim that Fleury and Odjick are cousins? What is the definition of "cousin"? Technically any two people with the same last name are cousins. --Andy
:Fleury and Odjick aren't cousins. Fleury's 'hockey' cousin is Todd Holt (former SJ Sharks minor leauger) - not Odjick. I'm removing it. Yankees76 16:06, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  SOURCES 

message: I just reverted a laundry list of additions including Sebastian Bach (!), Manon Rheume, Hayley Wickenheiser, Chris Jericho and others who unfortuneately do not qualify for inclusion in this article. Remember, to be listed here, the person must have either played, coached, owned, be a scout, referee or have otherwise made it to the NHL in some capacity during the regular season. Being notable and related to a hockey player (Bach), or the sister of a hockey player (Cammi Granato) doesn't count. If I reverted any legitimate entries, I apologize, but 207.6.56.91 did not do an entry summary for any of his/her edits. Thanks Yankees76 03:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  October 17 edits by 207.6.56.91 

message: If I got $1,000 for everytime an anon-user added Marc and/or Jared Staal to this list, I'd soon be able to buyout Donald Trump, the Rockefellers and the Irvings combined. Please, to all you anon-users (out there): Until Marc Staal AND/OR Jared Staal have played an NHL regulation game OR NHL playoff game; STOP adding their names to this list. See above, this 'talk' page's entry 'Criteria'. GoodDay 16:53, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Staal Brothers

message: I think it might be. Thoughts? -- weirdoactor t|c 17:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it is in violation if the people listed are not noteworthy. I'm assuming NHL players/former players, owners/former owners, GMs/former GMs, coaches/former coaches & scouts/former scouts are noteworthy? If you're concerned about the wiki-links to other articles? I'm even less sure about that. My solutions would be to have an Administrator check this article over, then decide (keep article/delete) or nominate this article for deletion (reach a consensus). GoodDay 19:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds good. should we post on WP:AN, or open an RfC? -- weirdoactor t|c 19:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since, many users have participated on this article, I'd recommend an Rfc. However, you have the right to post on WP:AN. The decision is ultimately yours. GoodDay 20:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Having conferred with a reliable sounding board for issues such as these; I don't think WP:AN is the proper place to post about this; and an RfC seems a bit too much as well. I also don't think an AfD is the way to go at this point, but I'd like to see the article become more of an actual encyclopedic article, and less "listy". If I saw an AfD for this, I'd either vote "Weak Delete" or "Merge" (into what article, though? The NHLPA? I don't see that.); but I see that a lot of hard work has gone into this article, and would want that to be preserved somehow. Can the lists be turned into a more encyclopedic article? -- weirdoactor t|c 20:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure it could (be more encylopedic). An introduction section would work. I'll create one, add whatever you wish to improve it. GoodDay 21:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good; I'll do what I can to help. I'm probably a better editor/tweaker of the work of others than anything else; so I'll have a look, and let you know what, if any, improvements might help. Thanks! -- weirdoactor t|c 21:14, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Given title-sections a simplier neutral view. Added Marguerite Norris to article. GoodDay 22:02, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

text: My edits aren't written in stone, change whatever you don't like in the article. You're contributions to this article are as important as mine or anyother users' contributions. Add or subtract, whatever you want. GoodDay 20:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks GoodDay, great article and contributions by the way. -RiverHockey 20:59, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this article in violation of [[WP:NOT#DIR]]? 

message: Removed diacritics from Surnames, the given names are wiki-linked to their respective bio-articles (that should satisfy pro-diacritic editors). This is an English Wikipedia article. GoodDay 21:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Diacritics

message: Just for the record the current Oiler and former Canuck are not related. His father's name is Craig. . Thanks. Yankees76 06:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joffrey and Gary Lupul 

message: About a year ago, it was decided to keep Keith Gretzky in the article as he was an NHL scout. Recently his entry has been removed, what gives? GoodDay 21:09, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: NHL scouts

message: As you can see, I have essentially re-written the page from scratch, in table form, with inline citations for every relation.  I did this because I think the page can definitely become a featured list.  I've been working on this page as a subset of my userpage for about two weeks now, and it's finally ready for mass consumption.  I'm going to submit it to peer review shortly, but I wanted some feedback from the WikiProject:NHL people first before I made the change.  Hope you like the changes. Anthony Hit me up... 20:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit.  I thought I would explain the changes I made to the page.
#Obviously, I put the page in table form.  I felt in its previous incarnation, it wasn't properly formatted, and didn't appear to be a good list.
#I ordered siblings from oldest to youngest, instead of alphabetical order, to provide a familial flow throughout the article.
#I noted who is in the Hockey Hall of Fame and who has won the Stanley Cup.
#I added who played on the same team, or with each other.
#I added other interesting trivia about the players where possible.
Now one of the biggest concerns is obviously the size of the page.  It's currently 105 KB, due to the format and large number of sources, but there are other huge featured lists (see List of Georgia Institute of Technology alumni, which is 97K).  Another is the pictures along the right side of the page, which don't fit well on 1024x768, but work on 1600x1200.  I'm not versed enough in wikiformatting to fix that problem, so hopefully someone else can.  I'll put it up for peer review over the weekend, which will hopefully give everyone in the project enough time to look at it first.  Again, feel free to critique, criticize, compliment, etc. Anthony Hit me up... 20:50, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: It looks fantastic to me, great. GoodDay 20:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice improvement! The only things I can think of that should be changed is twins in a seperate list. --Krm500 12:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Wow, if that is not a "major" set of edits, I don't know what is. :)  Easy to read, and the FAQs as part of intro is a great addition. — MrDolomite • Talk 16:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page overhaul 

message: Is the long list of references needed? All those references are found in the External links. This elaboration of the external links, has made the article extremely long. GoodDay 17:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at List of WWE Champions.  Every in-line reference can be found at the main link about WWE Title Histories.  But the references are needed because it takes you directly to the link that supports the statement; otherwise you have to go searching around.  I'm well aware of the length of the article, and if anyone has any suggestions on how to shorten it (perhaps break off brothers & father/son combinations into their own separate articles?), I'm more than happy to listen.  But as it stands, this is the only way this could potentially reach FA status. Anthony Hit me up... 14:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, I read ya. GoodDay 17:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Since there seems to be a inconsistancy concerning additions of diacriticals, I've removed them all. Furthermore, as this is an NHl-related article, perhaps the diacriticals should be omitted. GoodDay 17:55, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Diacriticals (again)

message: Although not actual players, they are still technically, maybe indirectly, a part of the NHL. The only example I can think of would be Martin Brodeur's father Denis Brodeur, long-time photographer for the Canadiens. Is he worth mentioning? BsroiaadnTalk 02:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, because that gets too far removed from the actual hockey being played.  That's why I removed broadcasters (with one or two rare exceptions, like Foster Hewitt... basically people in the HOF).  For the most part, it's players, coaches, GMs, and scouts.  Everything else is too far attenuated. Anthony Hit me up... 14:34, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, I kinda figured so. I didn't wanna add it without asking, just incase. I didn't notice the "players, coaches, scouts," etc. thing at the top of the article when I asked that. BsroiaadnTalk 02:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What about photographers in the NHL?

message: Deleted this entry at 'Uncle-Nephews' section. Butterfield never played/coached/scouted/managed/owned a franchise, in the NHL. He was big in the AHL. His entry violated the pages criteria. GoodDay 18:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough... the only reason I possibly included him in the first place is because he's in the Hockey Hall of Fame, but I understand and support the deletion. Anthony Hit me up... 19:09, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Shore/Butterfield

message: If we're going to include broadcasters (as with the Hewitt's). Then Ralph Mellanby and the Irvins would belong. They used to be in the article (have since been omitted). I've recently added Foster & Bill Hewitt to go along with W.A & Foster Hewitt. GoodDay 21:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I realize now for the integrity of the article that broadcasters must be excluded, even those as famous as the Hewitts.  That's why I removed people like Ralph Mellanby and Marv Albert when I overhauled the list.  It's a slippery slope if we start making exceptions; that's why Manon Rheaume remains off this page, despite all the hoopla surrounding her.  That's why I reverted your edit, GoodDay (though the Griffiths can stay, since they're owners). Anthony Hit me up... 00:20, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's cool, just wanted be sure. No problem. GoodDay 16:24, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Broadcasters

message: Thanks to all the people who voted in favor of this list becoming a featured list!  I'm sure we can keep this list at the level that it demands, with new players coming into the league every year.  Thanks again! Anthony Hit me up... 18:16, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Woohoo!!! 

message: This father-son combination, should be under the Bubla name. Jiri Slegr does have Bubla DNA, where' Jiri Bubla doesn't have Slegr DNA. The father's name should be used (as it was, before). GoodDay 20:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved entry to 'Bubla' and replaced international notes with NHL notes (afterall, this article relates to the NHL only). GoodDay 15:51, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jiri's Bubla & Slegr 

message: The scrolling references box should be avoided for accessibility reasons. Please see Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 June 11. heqs ·:. 07:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The scrolling technique helped make the page shorter. I thought it was a neat idea. GoodDay 15:33, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It does seem like one at first blush, but if you read that deletion debate for Template:Scrollref (essentially did exactly what was done to the reflist of this article), I think you'll see why this sort of feature creep should be avoided on Wikipedia. heqs ·:. 19:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In agreement, it's better to avoid 'feature creeps' GoodDay 14:24, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References formatting 

message: Does anyone know if Brad Leeb and Greg Leeb are related? I couldn't find anything, but they are from the same city.Canuck85 06:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not very reliable but... --necronudist 09:15, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Brad and Greg Leeb

message: A column of total number of games played by the family would be great.  Then you could sort on that and see the most 'significant' families (families with just a couple hundred games aren't of interest to most people).  Some marker indicating one of the members is active would be required..  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.246.4.186 (talk) 05:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Games Played

message: The players inclusion criteria should remain -a player must have played a regular season or playoff game-. GoodDay 18:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I still think they should be in. I even thought we had come to a concensus last time to add her as an exception but I would have to go back and read all the past discussion to see if that was the case or not. Being the first female player in the NHL makes her notable enough to be listed as a family relation on this list. --Djsasso 18:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer keeping the current 'criteria' (no exception). The only way Manon Rheaume should be allowed, would be to allow inclusion of all exhibition-only players. As Yankees76 said, she was no Jackie Robinson (she's been the only female). GoodDay 18:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See and I completely disagree, doesn't matter if no more females followed her. She was still the first, and as much she is as notable, if not moreso, that most of the people on this list. There is no reason why you would have to add all exhibition-only players. They did not become as notable as she did. --Djsasso 19:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's either no exceptions or inclusion of all; again it was just a Phil Espositio PR stunt. GoodDay 19:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no reason why it has to be all or none. No offense intended but you do have a tendancy to always try to push for all or none. When there is always a possibility for middle ground. This is one of those cases. Whether or not it was a PR stunt does not mitigate that she was the first female player. PR stunt or not she was and always will be the first female NHL player. In fact there is even an article about this type of reasoning WP:ALLORNOTHING. Yes its aimed mostly at deletion discussions but it can apply to situations like this as well. --Djsasso 20:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Add her, if you (or Canuckle) wish. I just hope others will accept the 'double standard' of it. GoodDay 20:14, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I will wait to see what others say. But I see no reason why she absolutely should not be added. I can see reasons why its a grey area, but I see no absolute reason why she can't. So I will wait and see. --Djsasso 20:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There really is no double standard as she is not being allowed on the list because she played an expedition game, but because she was the first woman to play in a game, expedition or not. T Rex | talk 19:09, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be more then happy to include Manon Rheaume and the other 'exhibition only players'. At least those players 'earned a try-out', unlike Rheaume (a PR stunt). GoodDay 19:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

text: {re-indent) As the person who overhauled this page, I would like to throw my $0.02 in, realizing of course my vote means no more than anyone else's.  As we stated above, the exhibition only requirement is important, because there are a ton of no-name siblings who would be included on this page if the pre-season were to count.  As that is the rule we established for the page, the fact that one person is left out is the (some would say unfortunate) result.  I agree with GoodDay, Manon Rheaume is nothing more than a PR stunt used to sell tickets for one game.  If she held a steady spot on the roster during the preseason and ended up back in the minors, I would say you have a stronger argument.  Since she didn't, she's no more notable than Eddie Gaedel, and thus should be left off the page. Anthony Hit me up... 23:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

text: As I've said before, feel free to add Rheaume (just don't forget the others). As for the Bobby Hull situation? see New York Rangers article.   GoodDay 20:33, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Get ready to add Troy Crosby then. He never played in a regular NHL game either, but as I noted above would have most likely appeared in a pre-season game in 1985. My own opinion is that this argument is ridiculous and would not be taking place if Rheaume was a male. However, perhaps the strongest argument for her not being included in this article is that she does not even appear on the Tampa Bay Lightning all-time player list on their own websitewhen even Normand Rochefort who played all of 6 games for the franchise is. She's not a player, coach owner, official, or head scout. She was a novelty act, who probably did not appear in enough minutes to qualify as being the goaltender of record in either game she played. I'm surprised there is such a debate over a person who played probably less than 3 periods of pre-season hockey. --Yankees76 20:56, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite frankly if the only way to make sure someone as major as Rheaume is not left off the list then I would be more than willing to add Troy Crosby and all the other exhibition only players. I think it is a grave error to leave her off, novelty act or not. --Djsasso 21:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is one easy solution. Change the name of the article from List of family relations in the National Hockey League to List of family relations in Professional Hockey. Then the Manon Rheaumes and Hayley Wickenheisers can be added along with the Ryan Sittlers, Terrence Tootoos and Darryl Campbells of the hockey world. --Yankees76 21:21, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great idea ...Professional Hockey. We'll have to divide the article of course into NHL, AHL, European Teams, WNHL etc. How's about it folks? GoodDay 21:26, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I wouldn't have an issue with that. --Djsasso 21:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nix the 'sections for Leagues' suggestion, we simply add NHL, AHL, European Elit League etc, next to the person's name. So we know what level they got to (exhibition included). 21:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense. I can see issues with verification, however HockeyDB.com is fairly complete. I would also ensure it's professional "Ice Hockey" as well. --Yankees76 21:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that would make this already incredibly large list beyond workable.  As it is, it takes a minute just to upload any changes to the page.  I'm concerned about several things:
#The size of the page
#The verifiability of the information
#The notability of the individuals on it
#Maintaining featured status
As it is, we have very clear standards for who can have articles on this site and who cannot; they have been extensively discussed and refined in the Hockey WikiProject.  If we proceed to open this up, there is no conceivable end to where this article could go.  There are countless leagues in North America, and if we include Europe, we're talking literally thousands of players and individuals on this site.  The current standards for this page, restrictive though they may be, are in the best interests of Wikipedia and the editors involved.  The mere fact that we are considering an overhaul of this magnitude simply for one person is incredulous.  The standard works.  The page works.  Let's leave it at that before we blow all this away simply for one individual. Anthony Hit me up... 12:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Anthony has good points folks. What are we gonna do, now? GoodDay 16:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: PS-I'm glad you brought up the difficulty factor concerning making edits to this article. It gets tiresome seeing Wikimedia Fountation (server is down), when trying to make changes after waiting a minute for the page to un-freeze. GoodDay 16:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Manon Rheaume (cont'd)

message: As Anthony pointed out (above), the article has gotten long and bloated. Perhaps we should divide it up into sister articles. Those articles would deal with NHL players, AHL players, European Elite players, NHL management (owners/gms/coaches), European Elite management, NHL officials (refs/linesmen), etc, etc. It seems inevitable. GoodDay 17:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with that argument is that as the page stands now, you have all varieties of relations on the page.  Players are related to referees, coaches are related to builders, there's no way we can narrow the scope of the page down without doing serious damage.  I agree the page is bloated as per your comments above, but unfortunately I don't see any other way we can deal with it.  If we increase the scope of the page above to include Manon Rheaume and all the Europeans, we might as well just give up.  On the other hand, cutting it into smaller articles would also be a pain.  The only conceivable reduction method would be to split it along familial connections: one page for siblings, one page for parent-children, and one page for the rest; that's how I split up the page in my sandbox when I was overhauling it.  If you do it any other way, you risk cutting out relations and information.  I would have no problem splitting the page into smaller connection pages; I am vehemently opposed, however, to any expansion of the inclusion criteria.  Leave Manon Rheaume out, because it's just a slippery slope otherwise. Anthony Hit me up... 14:31, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm at my wits end, I'm no longer certain what to do. I do know one thing however, I'll these potential headaches would be avoided if the current criteria remains (meaning no Manon). GoodDay 16:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Anthony Hit me up... 17:09, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does anybody know how to divide this article? Perhaps into List of siblings in Ice Hockey, List of parents and children..., List of cousins... etc. It's only gonna get more difficult to edit or even view the page. GoodDay 16:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

text: As I said above, the only legit way to divide the article is to divide along familial connections.  The size of the page as it stands now is unwieldy; 111 kilobytes is massive.  Another few things to consider when we split the page down:
# What do we call the new sub-pages?
# What does this article become?  A link to the sub-pages?
# Do the sub-pages then become their own featured lists as a result of breaking off from the main one?
We're going to need some input on this before we take any action, though I suggest doing it soon. I'll alert the hockey wikiproject. Anthony Hit me up... 20:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

text: It's seems everyone is agreed to division along those lines (familial lines), aswell as keeping the current inclusion criteria. GoodDay 22:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Divide the article?

message: I think the article should stick to just players and another section should be made for other relations, such as coaches, trainers, whatever, etc.  I also liked the old layout without the notations on the far right, it was easier to view/navigate without having to scroll down. -RiverHockey 21:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree, the list was much shorter & easier to work with, before the format was changed (remember the saying? if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Furthermore, could somebody out there please divide this goliath of an article up? Make each section an article itself? GoodDay (talk) 23:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's only 113k, which is pretty average for a page so its not really a goliath article. The reason we thought about ividing it up was because we wanted to include Rheaume in it etc. --Djsasso (talk) 23:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I find the size of this article has slowed down the ability to obtain it & edit it. GoodDay (talk) 23:31, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: My two cents

message: Zach Parise's Brother plays for Lowell, New jersey's minor team. his brother is Jordan Parise  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dark Lord Revan (talk • contribs) 05:57, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parise Bros 

message: just an aside, i believe this violates WP policy. refs are not supposed to be in a scrollable window, as it impairs access for those with disabilities or those on limited terminals. Anastrophe (talk) 00:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  refs in scroll window 

message: At the father-son line "Jiri Bubla - Jiri Slegr" there is written: "They both played for the Vancouver Canucks. They both won the Olympic Gold Medal and IIHF World Hockey Championship Gold Medals making them the only father/son combination to do so.[244]" However, this is not true. Jiri Bubla won only Olympic Silver Medal in 1976. The link does not say it either. I will remove the note. Miraceti (talk) 13:28, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bubla and the Olympic Gold Medal 

message: New at this guys, so please forgive if this an intrution, or the wrong way to go bout it. But shouldn't the section have a Grandfather-Son-Grandson section
Ron Hextall is the grandson of Hall-of-Famer Bryan Hextall, the son of former NHL player Bryan Hextall Jr. and nephew of former NHL player Dennis Hextall. 
I mean 3 NHLers out of one Hall-of-Famer has got to account for something, The Hextall's were mentioned I see, but A grandFather-Son-Son-GrandSon combo is pretty Rare.  lateofphilly (talk) 21:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They're already listed twice on the Parent-child section (Bryan to Bryan Jr. and Dennis, Bryan Jr. to Ron). No need to repeat it again in a separate section - grandparent-to-grandchild is f0r cases where NHL playing time skipped a generation. NeoChaosX  (talk, edits) 22:13, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

text: They need to have been in the NHL or held a management role in the NHL is the requirement I believe. If they don't play a single game then they don't qualify. I know we regularely cut players who only played in exhibition games because they aren't official games. So if he didn't play at all then he definitely doesn't qualify. -DJSasso (talk) 11:27, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Hextall Family Tree 

message: Well, after finding out about Mike Brodeur and his "distant" (to put it in Mike's words) relation to Martin Brodeur, I'm curious as to whether that's enough to list them on this article. Someone put the two Broduers under "Siblings", but their distant relation would disqualify them for that. I reaize, however, that "distant" is too vague and it could cover any sort of relationship. So I'm curious - is the relation between Mike and Martin Brodeur enough to be listed here, or do we not have enough information to know for sure? NeoChaosX  (talk, edits) 22:16, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally probably wouldn't. But we do have a cousin section so technically. -DJSasso (talk) 00:09, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

text: I would probably say not unless we have a firmer grasp of what the relationship is.  If Mike is Martin's fourth cousin, twice removed, on his father's side, that is a bit ridiculous. Resolute 00:55, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should the Brodeurs be listed here? 

message: I noticed that Jack Carlson & Steve Carlson was listed under brothers. 3rd brother Jeff Carlson never played in the NHL but did play in the WHA and IHL and a few more prof. leagues. But that's not all. They have a cousin, David Hanson, who played 100+ games in WHA and then a couple of dozen games in NHL (Red Wings and North Stars). That's not all. David's son, Christian Hanson, is a centre for the Maple Leafs. But, as stated earlier, only Jack & Steve is mentioned in the list. Anyone care to fix this or is it left out for some reason? 213.114.9.165 (talk) 21:43, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slap Shot Mania 

message: Cyclone Taylor is listed here as a notable relation to an nhl player. However he never actually played in the NHL. THere are a few familiy relations which can also be determined pre NHL. Can we change the name of the article to reflect at least professional hockey families rather than solely NHL families? Just some thoughts. Thanks for anyones time Ottawa4ever (talk) 14:20, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am guessing the reason for him was that he played in the NHA, which though not technically the NHL, many people consider it the same thing. I would probably remove him and any others like him. -DJSasso (talk) 14:56, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: He also played in leagues that were considered on par with the NHL at the time, played against NHL teams in the Stanley Cup Finals, won the Stanley Cup, is in the HHOF, and is generally considered to be the best player of his era.  A previous suggestion was "professional hockey" which someone rightly suggested it would make this list way too long.  But certain leagues were considered "Major League" (original IHL circa 1905, NHA, PCHA, WCHL circa 1920s, WHA).88.103.9.230 (talk) 16:45, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: NON NHL but notable families

message: And here we go again ...  First off, we've been more than happy to credit a player in exhibition play only as "belonging" to that team.  (Bobby Hull a New York Ranger Hall of Famer?  Really?  Seriously?)  Secondly, this list is already jampacked with people whose NHL credentials stretch no further than being an equipment manager, an assistant in the front office, a scout, a "medical trainer" and suchlike ... which is quite enough of a whopping "can of worms" as it is, and which doesn't seem to much bother people, at least not nearly as much a female player seems to.You're burning to get rid of Manon Rheaume?  Fine.  Then get rid of every other person who did not play in a NHL regular season or playoff game.  I'd be down with that, and that'd give the article a firm, objective criterion.  As it happens, the list does not otherwise exclude rostered players who didn't play in a regular season game.  (Come to that, it doesn't exclude much of anyone.  If the criterion is "employed by the NHL in some capacity," as it appears to be, Rheaume certainly qualifies, as does the GM's secretary, the assistant deputy head of marketing and the head usher ... some of whom must have been family members of players.  Want to bet I can't come up with fifty or sixty of those just going through the Team Directory sections of NHL Media Guides?   ῲ Ravenswing ῴ  05:23, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: * I've no objection to head coaches or general managers.  What we do have are scouts, front office middle managers, assistant equipment managers, linesmen and all manner of folks whose sole claim to being "in" the NHL is that they were at one point employed by a NHL team, a description which applies in equal measure to Manon Rheaume.  I'd be more than happy to strip out all the dross if there is consensus on a firm, objective standard.    ῲ Ravenswing ῴ  15:36, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: *I would trim it back to where it was when it was a FL. -DJSasso (talk) 15:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, the list has become bloated, with undeserved entries. GoodDay (talk) 23:38, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

text: We should use "played at least one game in the NHL regular season or playoffs" as the criteria for inclusion. People who were only in management and/or coaching, merely muddies the waters & makes this article too long & difficult to edit. GoodDay (talk) 15:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Scarcely, considering the size of the article.  In any event, consensus is running strongly towards their inclusion, so if you wouldn't mind halting editing them out until such time as that consensus falters?   ῲ Ravenswing ῴ  19:55, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Okie Dokie. GoodDay (talk) 19:57, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manon Rheaume redux 

message: I deleted alot of unqualified entries from this article. IMHO, if one hasn't been an NHL player (i.e. played atleast 1 NHL regular seaon game or 1 NHL playoff game), one shouldn't be admitted. That's why Lester & Frank Patrick got the boot, aswell as the Smythes, Fergusons, Griffiths, Wirtzs, Irvins etc. GoodDay (talk) 12:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We should use "played at least one game in the NHL regular season or playoffs" as the criteria for inclusion. People who were only in management and/or coaching, merely muddies the waters & makes this article too long & difficult to edit. GoodDay (talk) 15:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Scarcely, considering the size of the article.  In any event, consensus is running strongly towards their inclusion, so if you wouldn't mind halting editing them out until such time as that consensus falters?   ῲ Ravenswing ῴ  19:55, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Okie Dokie. GoodDay (talk) 19:57, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Updating

message: I just removed Daymond Langkow as a current NHLer. He hasn't played since 2012... and I'm a little nervous to check the rest of the list to see who else/ (Brendan Morrison also caught my eye as a current NHLer; he hasn't played since 2012 either. I'll change that after posting this.) For as long as I remember, this page has been behind the times on who is still active or not. Is this something we should even include if no one is going to play custodian? -Uncleben85 (talk) 23:46, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current NHLers 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Why are you removing information from the NHL relations page?
Both Hamilton brothers are playing in the Calgary Flames organization - this type of information is included throughout the article (see: Benn brothers, O'Reilly brothers, Samuelsson brothers, Schenn brothers, Sedin brothers, Staal brothers, etc.)
Maybe the Sauve uncle-nephew relationships do not need to be there as if you read all the siblings, parent-child, and cousins sections it is deductible, but I personally don't think that clarification is clutter. Same goes with the Kearns and Lukowich relationships. Yes, the information is there if you read every section and deduce, but why not provide that information explicitly.
And why would you remove the Brickley cousins? Both are/were NHL players, and 1st cousins, once-removed, are closer in relation than the plethora of second cousins, and especially the third cousins such as the Carkners and Pietrangelos, or the "distant cousins" of Clark&Melrose and Kocur.
-Uncleben85 (talk) 14:15, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brewing Edit War 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Under the Notes section of parents and sons, the description is in error, I believe, and certainly confusing.
"Ron only played five games in the NHL, and Ron only played five."
I think it should probably say Ralph in one of those places... not Ron twice... and also clarify a bit better. Not being a sports buff, I can't decipher the references enough to make the corrections myself.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steph6n (talk • contribs) 09:02, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  error: Buchanan, Ralph & Ron 

message: Why are Mark and Marty Howe listed separately from Gordie and Viv?
207.161.60.190 (talk) 04:10, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: The Howes

message: Why are Bernie Geoffrion & Blake Geoffrion being deleted from this section? GoodDay (talk) 18:23, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grandfather & Grandson