Talk:Jokbo

message: So the second son and so forth don't have a jokbo? If this is correct, than only a small portion of Korean (nuclear) families have a jokbo, with most everyone looking to their fourth and fifth cousins to discover their ancestry. Please explain Isaac Crumm 01:14, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The holder of the jokbo is the head of the household, and it is not a nuclear family document, but a clan document. It's typically held in the clan central office, as it were, although there are certainly copies. Clans are identified by the region of origin, what Koreans mean when they say "hometown" - 'kohyang'. The huge Kim (Korean name) surname has any number of clans, and the records for, say, the cadet royal line, the Andong Kims, will be kept in Andong. As an additional comment, perhaps we should fill out this a bit more, since these records replace the western vital records - Koreans do not have marriage licenses, birth certificates, etc but rather keep all such records in the jokbo, of which a copy is also kept at the local government office. The jokbo can even denote citizenship...I am married to a Korean woman, whose family very kindly entered me into the jokbo when we married. That act among other things confers Korean citizenship. I didn't realize at the time what a very gracious act it was. Especially given that the clan is the Min clan. --Dan (talk) 18:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: So the second son

message: While the official significance of the jokbo has diminished somewhat with the abolition of the monarchy and the yangban system of nobility, its use as a family record has been known for most of Korean history (i.e. a very long time, on the order of millennia). Therefore it is understandable that Korean clans will still maintain their aristocratic traditions. However, given the various events in Korean history (most of them tumultuous), it has become more difficult to determine who in fact is part of a clan with a legitimate jokbo (i.e. who is part of a legitimately aristocratic clan) and who is faking - as it is, practically all families in Korea these days claim to possess a jokbo or be a part of a clan that does, despite the fact that the number of people and families who could claim this were still in the minority before (of course, after several thousands of years of being fairly homogeneous, it is also possible that most Koreans these days can claim descent from one aristocratic clan or another). It has been speculated that many lower-class families acquired the jokbo of their employer clans or became part of those clans outright and passed that off as their own.Ecthelion83 (talk) 00:34, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Really nice, Ecthelion - you should clearly put a lot of this on the main page. To answer your questions, my wife's eldest uncle, who was head of household, included me in the jokbo, after consulting with his (one-and-only) younger brother. As you may know, the Min family is pretty small and those two uncles were about it for a council of elders. They wrote my name in transliterated hangul, and included a bit about my hometown. Not sure about recognition of women as full clan members or not, at least in this particular clan. The women in this clan tend to be a pretty strong-minded and strong-willed bunch. Several in the previous generation, i.e., the women born about 1910-1930, were college educated. And they really know their history and politics, and love to talk about it. --Dan (talk) 21:38, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Honestly, despite everything I've said, I can't profess to be an expert on the jokbo and the various intricacies; thus, I'll be content for the time being to leave what I've said off the main page and let it be parsed over by others who are interested/have more knowledge than I do. That said, I am certain now that female members of the clan, regardless of the clan from which they hail, are still written with their given name but not the family name (according to the traditional understanding that despite the fact that Korean women keep their last names after marriage, they become a part of the family into whom they marry) when recorded in Hanmun (not Hangul). Various details such as college education (especially for the women, in the era you mention, Dan), achievements, and who one marries, are likely to be listed, for men and women, as I now know. As for your wife's family, Dan, do you know which Min clan/sept they are? As I noted, various clans with the same last name hail from various places (for instance, the Korean rulers during the Joseon era hailed from the Jeonju Yi clan; I am a member of the Gyeongju Yi clan, and despite the use of the same Chinese character/Hanmun for the name, they are two distinct clans and, as far as I'm aware, not actually related), and some clans, despite sharing the same name, may not actually be related.Ecthelion83 (talk) 22:45, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

text:  Dan, if your wife is from the Yeoheung Min clan (as in Empress Myeongseong's clan), which is essentially the only prominent Min clan, then it'll likely have a lot more than two people for council of elders, as there are 142,570 members as of 2000 according to the South Korean Office of Statistics.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.247.91 (talk) 05:24, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: significance of the jokbo has diminished