Talk:The Goon Show/Archive 1

message: A minor detail:
The Goon Show entry specifies only the BBC Home Service. However, I distinctly remember that some series were broadcast on the BBC Light Programme instead.
Tony
(huge Goon Show fan in the '50s, but a newcomer to Wikipedia)
:Goonshow.co.uk says that with the exception of two editions, all the shows were first broadcast on the Home Service, and then repeated on the Light Programme and the General Overseas Service.
::You were right though, Wallace would sometimes introduce the show talking about the Light Service. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 16:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broadcast 

message: "...the closest thing to a Goon Show film, The Case of the Mukkinese Battlehorn (which also featured Sellers and Milligan but not Secombe)" -- what about Down Among the Z Men, which featured all 3 Goons and was ostensibly a Goon movie? --Woozle 23:54, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: you could argue that the character of the Mukkinese film was more like a Goon Show story where as the Z Men film is more conventional, but with Goon style humour included, particularly from the Goon principles in it, (Milligan, Sellars) Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 15:26, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film 

message: All sources I have seen suggest the former, but I don't know about the magazine reference towards the end of the article.
-- Every source I have seen suggests it is spelt Grytpype-Thynne --Crais459 15:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: it is Grytpype-Thynne but the spelling is so odd that many try out something phonetic Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 15:19, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I corrected that article while I was about it. Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 15:22, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grytpype or Gritpype? 

message: *Delete - don't bother merging it - it doesn't exist - never did - it is just based on a line from one version of the episode "The China Story" Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 13:50, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've redirected it here.--Drat (Talk) 10:16, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teahouse of the August Goon 

message: Who played the character of Fred Fu Manchu, who was in more than one episode?
This Chinese character was definately in the episode 'Fred Fu Manchu and his Bamboo Saxaphone' (sometimes refered to as 'The Dreadful revenge of Fred Fu Manchu'). I also remember hearing him in another episode, but I cannot remember which one at the moment (it could have been 'The China Story' or 'Emperor of the Universe').--Albert 14:42, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Episode's proper title "The Terrible Revenge of Fred-Fu Manchu" but announced as "Fred Fu Manchu and his Bamboo Saxaphone"--Albert 19:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: After a bit of online searching and listening to episodes I conclude that Spike played Fred. external link. I'll update the page accordingly. --Albert 19:13, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

text: That cast list (like the chronological and alphabetical lists of shows) originates from appendices in Wilmut's book "The Goonshow Companion" based on his original research of the scripts etc at the BBC.  So I suppose he should be the cited reference point when using any of those many derivative lists. AGoon 03:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fred Fu Manchu 

message: Someone has added the following a while ago:
"demonstrating his Freudian castration anxiety: "Harm can come to a growing lad like that!""
Does such psychological analysis bare any relevance to Bluebottle's catch-phrases? I'm going to delete the reference to a 'Freudian castration anxiety'--Albert 18:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides all that, without a reference, it was essentialy original research, and hence did not belong.--Drat (Talk) 05:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anxious Bluebottle? 

message: I have edited the transcript references to point to a more up to date version of the scripts (the original homepages site ran out of space a few years ago :-)
The site (http://goonshowscripts.afraid.org/raw/index3.html) now contains a transcript of every existing Goon Show that I know of.  Some only in very basic form, and in need of correction, but a start :-)
AGoon 03:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transcript references 

message: I will change the "occasional collaboration" to "regular collaboration" - of the 238 shows described by Wilmut (referencing the scripts held at the BBC), 75 are credited to Milligan alone, 157 to Milligan and others, 6 to others (Larry Stephens or Larry Stephens with Maurice Wiltshire).
I suspect the reference to "senior programme executives erroneously" ... referring to the show as "The Coon Show" is wrong (can't find a reference to it).  The show was indeed referred to, within the scripts (and ad-libs), as the "Coon Show", "Grune Show", "Goat Show" and "Babboon Show".
Wilmut does mention the "Go On" show reference by BBC execs. --AGoon 01:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Background - collaboration and Coon references 

message: I'm not sure what the wikipedia stance on this sort of thing is (I suppose I should go and look), but as it was an essential part of Milligan's sense of humour and the reason for sometimes unexpected studio audience reaction, it really should at least be mentioned in passing - I have formulated a possible entry, for the Goon Show article page, on my user page.  Let me know what you think, I'll leave it a week or so before adding anything to the article page. --AGoon 09:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead and add what you've got. If I think it's inappropriate I will delete/alter it. I take it this is something for adding under 'format'? --Albert 19:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added it, but without linked references as I'm not sure they're in very good taste and this is not a slang dictionary.  But if you don't believe me do a google on "The good ship venus", "pink oboe" and "chocolate speedway".  There are many other examples throughout the shows. --AGoon 02:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dirty Jokes 

message: This article is clearly the work of fans. THE GOON SHOW is not still "highly popular" in Britain, any more than Vera Lynn or Max Bygraves still have hits in the charts over here, I suspect that this article was written by an Australian. It may still be popular there, and may for all I know be repeated on a mainstream channel and popular among younger listeners. But in Britain, it is only heard on the digital channel BBC7, and has not been any of the five network, terrestrial BBC stations for years. 
Also, outside of comedy devotees, it does not have many younger fans, Python and Peter Cook's work having been more successful in crossing the age divide. (Who on earth would know who David Nixon or Sabrina are now, anyway?) It's a generally held opinion (stated in many of Milligan's obituaries) that the only people who till find it funny are those old enough to remember it first time round, generally curmudgeonly, fogeyish men. Tellingly, in the very first episode of the excellent Radio 4 comedy ED REARDON'S WEEK, the out-of-touch, middle-aged title character mentioned Neddy Seagoon, and did a quick burst of the voice, to a younger character who had no idea what he was talking about. The late Miles Kington stated in his INDEPENDENT column that while he adored it in the 50's, he found it embarrassing now, the same views being stated by John Peel in his autobiography MARGRAVE OF THE MARSHES. And the stage play YING TONG was a quick flop in the West End, the stage show of ROUND THE HORNE running for much longer. Dolmance (talk) 02:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corrections, and reversal to NPOV, required for this article 

message: Some recent edits have stated certain family relations between characters, such as Minnie being Bluebottle's grandmother, and Eccles Henry's nephew. But aren't these on a per-episode basis anyway? I remember one in which Eccles and Seagoon were brothers.--DooMDrat 06:59, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
:Update: I decided to remove those lines.-DooMDrat 02:30, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)
Eccles is ondeed referred to as "Neddie's idiot half-brother" in two episodes and in "The Very last Goon Show Of All"
But then again, the shows, along with the characters, have been located in time periods ranging from 49 BC up to 1985, so you have to take all but the broadest facts of the programme on a show-by-show basis--Crais459 15:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character relations... 

message: I have a "Goons" promotional flexidisc dating from the mid to late seventies. No mention is made about it. I suspect that only Milligan and Seacombe were involved. Does anyone know about this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Awernham (talk • contribs) 19:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barclays Bank Flexidisc 

message: Add this to your userpage: 
--Drat (Talk) 03:30, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great work! But is there a usergroup for Goon fans? (e.g. like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:User_piano-2) --Albert 18:15, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. The userbox now automatically places those who have it in :Category:Wikipedians who are fans of The Goon Show.--Drat (Talk) 17:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't wish to know that. 86.137.253.42 (talk) 14:38, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goon Show userbox 

message: . . . But I have read in a book purporting to speak in Spike's voice (which I shall check on my return from work) that Milligan's alleged attack on Sellers was not with a knife, but with a potato peeler (this is Spike we're talking about here).  After some time of frenzied running around, Sellers finally twigged that Spike wasn't joking . . .
Has anyone else heard this version of events?Johno 05:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm embarrased to ask if anyone else knows . . . 

message: ... but it is by no means perfect. If anyone else wants to help tidy-up the page, getting information into the right areas then by all means go ahead. For example I've created the sub-section of 'Music and Sound Effects' under 'format' but I don't think that there is enough there about Ray Ellington. --Albert 16:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I've changed the page around a bit... 

message: :There are inevitably multiple versions of Goon stories (one version per Goon at least), obviously difficult to say that any of them are the 'true' version of events - so every time someone adds an unreferenced story I have been trying to find a reference for it, preferrably in the words of a participant (rather than a third party) - this means I have been substituting versions of stories that I can actually source.  I have no problem with people substituting other versions so long as they provide a good reference (I'm thinking of starting a wiki page just for all the different versions of Spike meets Harry). --AGoon 12:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Versions of stories

message: We are now getting warnings that the size is greater than 32k (warning because this might cause problems in some browsers).  Maybe it's time for a trim.  There's a lot of good stuff in there, but maybe some things should be moved to their own page eg do we need every catch-phrase and time wasting example?  Maybe an encyclopedia entry should be a bit more concise and just give a couple of good examples. --AGoon 10:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I'd say that music and sound effects can be made a bit more concise, some of the waffling in the Running Joke section can be cut out (e.g. in the Grytpype Thynne quotes section, some of that reads not at all like an encyclopedia), and Time Wasting can be cut to just, say, the four funniest examples. A lot of the quotes can be (eventually) ported to Wikiquote, and then just linked to that from here. If nobody objects (and object in my talk page, please), then in about a week I'll do it myself (except for the wikiquote bit - someone with a wikiquote account can do that, otherwise I'm waiting unitl the single login is implemented). —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 11:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Personally I think 'Running Jokes' section needs a new page. It would be a great shame to delete huge chunks of it.--AlbertW 11:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Go do it :-) --AGoon 12:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Support - linked Running Jokes article idea. Style of inclusions should be tidied onced article established. Dont forget the "Bibligraphy" and "inline referencing" requirements. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 13:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  Looking good :-) --AGoon 01:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Archive it.--Drat (Talk) 05:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok, done (nb discussions are now renumbered) I've kept anything that looks unresolved or may come up again - speaking of which, I may in the future create a FAQ under archives to put re-occuring discussions (or ones which are liable to recur) --AGoon 11:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time for a trim? 

message: With running jokes sorted, I feel like we should sort out the confusing Goon Show Archiving and List of Goon Show episodes. I believe these two should be merged to a) save space b) create a consise 'Goon Show Episodes' page etc. Thoughts? --AlbertW 15:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was going to say no don't, but then looked at how little was on the Archiving page, so I say yes do it! :-) (everything from Lost Episodes down tacked onto end of Episodes page) --AGoon 01:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Archiving' & 'Episodes'? 

message: I was adding Goon Cartoon books to the revival section, and found it rather an odd section, so have restructured it and moved films, made during the series, out (as they're not by definition revivals). --AGoon 10:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revival restructure 

message: Would the kind person who pasted a  tag into the article page please follow cleanup guidelines and put some commentary here, or use a more specific tag. --AGoon 19:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Some of the info on the article page is about The Goons and some about their show.  The two aren't quite the same thing - eg The Goons did some things together that wasn't the show.
To allow a bit more background on The Goons, what was happening between them before The Goon Show, and references to what they did together besides The Goon Show, how about we seperate The Goons from info about the show?
We un-redirect "The Goons" move stuff there about the group, with of course a major link to here.? --AGoon 21:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split "The Goons" from "The Goon Show" ? 

message: I was wondering if it is worth creating a Wikipedia:WikiProject for The Goon Show and associated articles. For those unsure what a WikiProject is have a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Gilbert and Sullivan as an example.
Vote Yea or Nay below whether you think this is a good idea.--AlbertW 09:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject Goon Show 

message: Since I read the message on my talk page, I have considered putting the trivia back on to the main article. --JB82 01:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see you've implimented your hasty retreat, it will be interesting to see whether the deletees notice ;-) --AGoon 03:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: "He's fallen in the water" was the catchphrase (and almost the only phrase) of the character called "Little Jim", played by Spike, not to be confused with Peter's Bluebottle character. Ant501UK (talk) 00:20, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

text: One thing I would like to see mentioned is the creation of the never-actually-heard character of Hugh Hampton, pronounced "Huge Hampton." This was a running joke on the BBC censors as Hampton was and is Cockney rhyming slang: Hampton Wick that's your prick. In all the years that this off-stage character was mentioned on The Goon Show the censors never caught on that it was actually an off-color joke. Dick Kimball (talk) 19:37, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

text: Yes indeed. Pronounced I believe as Hugh Jampton. The censors didn't notice other off-colour references either: Bloodnock: "I'll give them the Last Turkey in the Shop" (a reference to what these days is known as the Puppetry of the Penis). Bloodnock: "Where's me Butler's Revenge frying pan?" (a reference to a name given to the 'silent but deadly' variety of human flatulance) and phrases like "Excused shorts" or "Long trousers are a must with you" (both presumably North African Campaign jokes about men with longer than average endowments) and "Everyone back to their own beds!", (presumably a World War Two NCO's way of instilling nocturnal barrack room order in troops away from their wives for a long time). Ant501UK (talk) 00:20, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goon show trivia 

message: This section seems to be full of little bits and pieces about who was influenced by or liked the Goon Show, with the implication that this developed their later contributions to comedy. But is there no article/ reference/ analysis out there that describes the effect that Goon humour had on comedy? --AGoon 19:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impact on comedy and culture 

message: Unless anyone objects, I'm going to delete the ludicrous statement that "Bloodnok's Rock and Roll Call" was the first British record with the word Rock in the title.  Offhand, there's "With My Little Stick of Blackpool Rock", and I'm sure others can come up with dozens more. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.162.131.36 (talk) 21:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well perhaps the first with "rock and roll", but either way doesn't seem to be an important piece of info (perhaps the first in the World to have "rock" (in the sense of "rock and roll") would be noteworthy). --AGoon 10:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The first use of the word Rock? 

message: Hello,
BBC7 ended it's repeats of Goon Shows some time ago and according to it's Goon page and no next air dates specified. I think the BBC7 external link should be removed and references to BBC7 edited to be past tense.
Hope this helps
Kind regards
Lee 
CORRECTION - BBC7 now appear to be broadcasting Goon Shows - please ignore!
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.18.126.156 (talk) 17:28, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BBC7 no longer broadcasts Goon Shows 

message: Surely the earlier episodes are public domain now, being that 50 years since release have passed. Or am I very wrong?--Shadebug 16:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether they are in the PD or not, some episodes are being sold that way on eBay. Proteus71 20:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For "broadcasts" the period is 50 years however for "literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works" it is 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last remaining author of the work dies. The BBC strictly enforces re-publication of the Goon Show without their consent as the scripts are fall under this classification.86.176.164.80 (talk) 13:53, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Public Domain? 

message: There should be a mention that Cartman from South Park's voice is based on Bluebottle. For instance both say Authorata! instead of Authoraty, and when the going gets tough both go home. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Djarra 18:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's original research without a relible source making that observation, or better yet, word from the creators of South Park.--Drat (Talk) 21:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

text: No way. The comparison isn't close enough. If indeed Cartman's voice really was (somewhat) based on Bluebottle, it only really needs to be mentioned on the Cartman page --AlbertW 20:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cartman and Bluebottle 

message: I have just created a stub article for the Goon Show Preservation Society. Regular editors of this article may be able to help expand it. Dbromage 02:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Goon Show Preservation Society]] 

message: Are the following books by Milligan relevant to this article?
If so, should they be added to the Bibliography section, or where? 
They aren't listed in the Spike Milligan article either, as far as I can see.
The Goon Show Scripts, More Goon Show Scripts, Milligan's Ark. GilesW 11:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books by Milligan 

message: From 1963 interview:
Q: "It's said, John Lennon, that you have the most 'Goon-type' humor of the four Beatles."
JOHN: "Who said that?"
Q: "I think I read it in one of the newspapers."
JOHN: "You know what the newspapers are like."
Q: "I don't know. What are they like?"
JOHN: "Wrong."
Q: (laughs) "This is going wrong... I want to get a nice 'Personality' bit."
JOHN: "I haven't got a nice personality."
Q: (laughs) "Is this evidence of Goon-type humor?"
JOHN: "No, I don't think I really have Goon-type humor. That's just an expression people use."
http://www.geocities.com/~Beatleboy1/db1963.1210.beatles.html
Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 00:45, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Lennon says his humor is not like the Goons

message: I have been trying to find evidence that the name "Unteroffizier Krupp" was used as a character name by Milligan.  I can not find it in any published script, or in the goon show bible "The 
Goon Show Companion".  It may have been used in "The Tale of Men's Shirts" as published in "The Book of the Goons" by Elizabeth Rose but I haven't got a copy of that.  The name comes up on google in relation to character lists, but they appear to have sourced their material from here. --AGoon (talk) 21:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Entry added by Special:Contributions/161.65.16.253   --AGoon (talk) 22:12, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No mention of "Krupp" in alt.fan.goons newsgroup.  This is only a very minor character so I am going to delete references to this name for the character, and expect someone to provide references/evidence of it being a Milligan character name.  I may be wrong of course ;-) --AGoon (talk) 22:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unteroffizier Krupp 

message: I can find lots of examples of Bluebottle being quoted in other places as saying "You dirty rotten swine you", but I can't find a single instance in any of the scripts or recordings I have where he uses the form "dirty rotten" - 'dirty' seems to have been added by the people quoting the character. I'd love to see at least one citation of it in this form, or see it corrected to "you rotten swine you" (and not "you dirty rotten swine" as often quoted).
I'd like to know in which Goon Shows willium mate says "you can't park 'ere mate". I can think of one where he might have done but I don't have the recording to hand. Presumably to call something a catchphrase it needs to be used frequently - or be especially revealing about the character. Willium Mate generally just says "mate" a lot.Tolken (talk) 07:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The episode you refer to is Tales of Old Dartmoor and it is on YouTube here:  - Governor Seagoon decides to take the prisoners and prison on a holiday abroad.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.220.15 (talk) 01:05, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character Catch Phrases Challenge 

message: The Goon Show, a title which Milligan was quoted as being inspired by a Popeye character.[1]
Actually this is only true indirectly. The name does come from the characters in the Popeye cartoons but the show got its name because British POWs referred to their German guards as 'Goons' in reference to the characters in the cartoon. Michael Bentine has stated this on at least one occasion.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.68.219 (talk) 20:12, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of Name 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on The Goon Show. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120218185620/http://www.telegoons.org/famous_fans.htm to http://www.telegoons.org/famous_fans.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Some editor(s) has/have been adding in page numbers to various footnoted references, which is very commendable and helpful for verifying facts. However, they seem to have been unaware of the Template:RP feature in Wikipedia, which was created to handle the case of multiple different page refs to the same publication. Use of this feature avoids much tedious repetition of identical bibliographic information, differing only in the page numbers, and provides the page numbers in a handy but unobtrusive way. Some editor has attempted to approximate this feature by adding "(a) pp.4, 5, 61; (b)p.183, (d) pp.180, 181, (e)p.203" in the footnote by McCann, for example. The biggest problem with this improvised method is that if another editor later inserts another reference to McCann earlier in the article, the footnotes will all be reassigned different letters, which will now be incorrect.
I have attempted to clean up various references to the Goon Show Companion, by Wilmut and others, which you can see in my recent edit. I was very careful to leave references to specific chapters by name or specific quotations, intact and separate, while combining ordinary basic references together. I will probably leave it to other editors concentrating on this article to work on the other references, if they wish.
For interested editors, there is a very useful introduction to some of the more useful referencing tools at WP:REFSTART. The section "Same reference used more than once" is particularly relevant. Cheers! Reify-tech (talk) 21:15, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page numbers in references 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion