Wikipedia talk:German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 3

message: My guess is this is an organisation of somekind. This needs a copyedit, and should at least cleary states what kind of an entity is it talking about (and maybe it has an English name?).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 02:32, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ferdinand-Tönnies-Gesellschaft]] 

message: The News section of the Portal page could use some help to keep it updated. Currently we only use news from wikinews:Portal:Germany, Germany-related Current events and Deutsche Welle news, but we should probably expand our selection of sources to include at least the BBC. Comments are appreciated either here or at Portal talk:Germany. Kusma (討論) 20:03, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Portal:Germany/Germany news]] 

message: (See User:Staffelde's last comment above re. " a repository of agreed terms") Is there a conventions page for how to name German regions, along the lines of this: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (places)? Would that be the right kind of place? Not sure if I understood what that page is for ... If not, how about a Style guide for translations from German? Saint|swithin
:It would definitely be more useful to have all the German stuff together in one place rather than scattered around by subject - easier to check, easier to update. Staffelde 15:19, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I put the list in Wikipedia:German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board/Translation guide and will link it from the main noticeboard page. Of course it could be reworked into a general naming convention style thing, but this should do for a start. Kusma (討論) 03:42, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Shall we archive the whole discussion on the talkpage of the Translation guide? Agathoclea 18:48, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would prefer a talk page archive here. I was planning to archive this stuff early next week or so, and to put a link to the discussion on the translation guide's talk page. That talk page should be used also to discuss additions to the official list, and not be filled with so much old discussion right from the start (IMHO). Kusma (討論) 19:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds fine. Really "Kerngebiet" (see below) would be a question of that new talkpage as well? Agathoclea 20:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think here is fine for now. We can still handle the volume of posts here, and we'd need more people watching yet another page. Kusma (討論) 22:47, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Style guide for translations from German

message: I am stuck in translating that term. see :de:Naila. Agathoclea 18:48, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They seem to use "Stadtgebiet" and "Kerngebiet" as synonyms. Maybe use "Suburbs" or "Outlying villages that belong to Naila" for "Ortsteile außerhalb des Kerngebietes"? I think a description of what is meant is more important than a precise translation of the term. Kusma (討論) 22:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Depending on the city, I've translated it as cityname (proper) (if it's a city that has grown mostly by annexation and district reforms) or center of town/historic center (Altstadt) if that's what is meant (i.e., the center of town of Bruchsal (proper) would be the old center of town, before the district reforms).  Ortsteile/Stadtteile (mostly merged due to redistricting) I translate with "boroughs".  In your case, looks like "borough" would be it, as far as I'm concerned.  Different, less defined parts of town I've translated with neighborhoods and settlements (Hof), usually wouldn't have clearly defined areal limits. --Mmounties (Talk)    03:31, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just thought I'd check our new style guide.  Looks like the EU translates Bezirke inside cities (which is what Ortsteile are) as boroughs.  It is my understanding that suburbs are, while geographically close, politically independent towns and cities.  Villages would also need to be politically independent while Ortsteile and Stadtteile are politically part of the city even if they are geographically separate from the "Kernstadt". --Mmounties (Talk)    04:13, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - As far as villages are concerned I don't think they are independant. If they were independant they would be municipalities (ugly word), but you can have several villages in a municipality (and belonging to a city). Anyway looking at :de:Kerngebiet it looks like :de:Naila did not even use the legal term but used it in a more collegial sense. Agathoclea 10:06, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Really?  I always thought villages are a slightly different kind of entity, legally, or a different status/level of a municipality (linked to size as they like to do in Germany).  But that may be due only to how the word was used where I grew up.  Oh, well... --Mmounties (Talk)    13:42, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I might be wrong, but to my knowledge village means "Dorf" whereas town means "Ort" which is more or less a description by size. Therefore there are several villages in the area of a municipality. The one I am mainly working on atm Geroldgrün I still can't decide what I would call the main village/town - it used to be tiny, but it is growing. Agathoclea 17:27, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'm not 100 % sure of all the legal statuses, especially in Bavaria, but when I grew up in Germany there were plenty of "Dörfer" around and not one of them that wasn't an independent legal entity.  Then came the district reform and a lot of them were either combined into larger towns and cities where each former independent village was now a borough or merged into already existing towns and citys where again the former independent village also became a borough. "Ort" I would translate as municipality (i.e., generic) and could be any size.  Even Stuttgart is an Ort, same as one of the smaller towns.  Ort can also mean just the geographic (not legal) structure of a community like in "vor Ort".  That's how the words where used where I grew up in Baden-Württemberg.  Regarding your challenge at hand, I'd refer to the main part as Geroldsgrün (proper) and to the other "Ortsteile" (just another way to say Stadtteil) as boroughs.  Hope this helps.  --Mmounties (Talk)    00:47, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Found :de:Ortschaft today which seems to perfectly describe the villages in question. Just finding an English equiv of that seems daunting again. Agathoclea 23:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text: dict.leo.org translates 'Kerngebiet' into 'business zone'. For me (german) that looks like what the article :de:Kerngebiet describes:  Municipal building land for central facilities of commercial firms, administrative institutions and cultural organizations, according to the 'Baunutzungsverordnung' (Land Utilisation Ordinance?). In most cities 'Kerngebiet' is the city center. Grmpf 22:37, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. :de:Naila had it wrong in its application of the term, which makes translating a nightmare. Anyway it got fixed today. Agathoclea 23:13, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kerngebiet

message: This article is a mess - it is basically just a collection of list-style information. It needs attention and should be considerably expanded, and a short form of it should perhaps appear on the Portal:Germany page. Kusma (討論) 03:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You want to tackle it?  Or should I?  --Mmounties (Talk)    04:06, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I won't stop you :-) I had originally planned to write a short introduction to German geography and other topics on the Portal page, and link Geography of Germany as main article. (Our recent changes to the Germany portal have made it more pretty and more fun for us, but it still should be more useful as a starting point for a browsing of Wikipedia's Germany-related content). But the main article is not in a shape to be linked from anywhere, but reads like copied directly from the CIA World Factbook. The German article :de:Geographie Deutschlands is also not very good, inferior to :de:Deutschland#Geografie if you ask me. Maybe we should just translate that and merge with the information from the current article. Or are there better ways to structure this information? Kusma (討論) 04:23, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The German article looks a lot better as a starting point to me.  For starters it seems to have a lot more cohesive content.  Heck, it's using real language rather than lists!  :)  But I'd make sure that we'd also incorporate most of the meat that's in the English article right now (no sense in letting that get lost).  Agree?  --Mmounties (Talk)    05:03, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. I think that the structure as well as the content of :de:Deutschland#Geografie is quite decent, and if you start with that, the rest of the information can probably be integrated easily. If you don't want to do this alone, I could try and help by finding all the relevant lists and subarticles that need to be linked from here (and make sure all of them exist) or of course anything else you need help with. Kusma (討論) 05:11, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll do it and hand it over to you for editing, how's that?  I find I usually do a good job with the initial translation but then I need a fairly long time away from it before I can do a decent job copy-editing it.  If you can do that, it would be great.  --Mmounties (Talk)    05:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure! Just drop me a line when you're done. Kusma (討論) 05:33, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Beware that the page is interwikied to :de:Geographie Deutschlands but not referenced from the main article which I think is an error in the German Wiki. Agathoclea 07:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kusma, I don't think I'll be able to do it, after all.  I'm going to have very limited time over the next two months because of work (they dumped another project on me) and a move to California.  If the article still sits there undone at the end of April, I'll gladly do it. :)  --Mmounties (Talk)   02:19, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, and thanks for telling me. I'll try do it myself. All the best for your move! Kusma (討論) 09:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Geography of Germany]] 

message: Any idea what this might be?  See :de:Lahr/Schwarzwald, history section.  --Mmounties (Talk)    04:47, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kondominium (auch Kondominat) links to Condominium (international law), but probably "administered it jointly" works just as well. Kusma (討論) 04:51, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, you're good!  I searched for it in the dewiki but didn't find a match.  And here you just shake it out of your left pinky..... Thanks.   --Mmounties (Talk)    05:16, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kondominat 

message: Please comment on the talk page for Chateau Schönhausen regarding which word best to use for small country Schlösser".  Thanks.  --Mmounties (Talk)   12:43, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would just like to comment here that if Palace isn't chosen as a substitute for chateau, I believe using Schloss would be sufficient and appropriate. Charles 16:27, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schloss vs. Chateau vs. Palace vs. Manor 

message: Can anybody knowledgeable about German culture look at Kultur? I find this article does not make any sense. LARS 13:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Shouldn't this just be redirected to German culture or Culture of Germany? Another (more inclusionist) choice would be to move this article to Frederic Austin Ogg's view on German Kultur (which seems to be the topic of the article) and then change the redirect to point to one of my suggestions. Kusma (討論) 13:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kultur 

message: Please take a look at Wikipedia_talk:Polish_Wikipedians%27_notice_board#Miko.C5.82aj_Kopernik_under_attack. Reasonable editors are needed before it becomes a troll revert war (again...).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Help stop the war

message: There is the proposal from Rostock for an interwiki-Project in English language on all issues and articles concerning the Hanseatic League, since it is an issue relevant to all countries and languages in Northern Europe. The link is: User:Hanseatic_League. --Kresspahl 16:52, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internationales Forum Hansestädte 

message: Please help decide on next month's article and picture at Portal talk:Germany. And write some featured articles that we can put there :-) Kusma (討論) 11:48, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germany portal: Selected article and picture for April 

message: I have changed the format of that page a bit: now there are two lists, one that is shown on the portal, and another one at Portal:Germany/New article announcements that can contain annotations, listings of stubs, praise etc. So please list anything you create that is related to Germany there! Kusma (討論) 04:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article announcement page at Germany portal 

message: I can find no off-Wikipedia Google hits for this unsourced article about "a constructed mixture language of Turkish and German". Anybody heard of it? Kusma (討論) 19:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not under this name, though the phenomenon of German/Turkish codeswitching is real enough. I don't think they mean "constructed" in the sense of constructed language. Angr (talk • contribs) 19:57, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed I believe everything the article says, and the name is reasonable. I am just a bit concerned that we might be helping to spread a neologism for a phenomenon that is usually not named or known by a different name. Kusma (討論) 20:07, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't believe everything the article says, but I believe its general gist. I don't believe there is an established alphabet of "Aleturkish", nor do I believe there are single fixed expressions for "Hello" and "How are you". That simply isn't the nature of code-switching in language contact. Angr (talk • contribs) 20:53, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is anyone going to AfD it? Agathoclea 22:30, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not if no one objects to your PROD ;-) Angr (talk • contribs) 07:07, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Aleturkish]] 

message: Hello. I have created these two categories in line with a motion at WP:OLYCON which passed 21/0 to keep East Germany and West Germany separate in terms of the Olympics, rather than merging, so that I think it is natural that there should be separate categories for those atheltes who represented east and west respectively.Regards, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 01:19, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:Olympic competitors for East Germany]] and [[:Category:Olympic competitors for West Germany]] 

message: In :de:Rippenqualle, in the section 'Systematik', the diagram at the bottom of the section contains a number of 'N. N.'s. Anyone knows what this means? --Sam Blanning(talk) 15:03, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably Latin Nomen nescio. Kusma (討論) 15:09, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh. No wonder it wasn't in my dictionary then if it wasn't even German. Thanks. --Sam Blanning(talk) 15:21, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unknown German acronym - N. N. 

message: While there is currently an understandable Move Request for Meißen porcelain, I would like to bring attention to the recent changes of Meißen to Meissen and Festung Königstein to Festung Konigstein.... Olessi 02:20, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Konigstein is silly, we generally use diacritics. When I last checked, the question whether to use the ß was disputed. I have reverted the Konigstein move but will leave the Meissen question open for discussion or a move request. Kusma (討論) 02:30, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Meißen has since been moved back by Markussep. I have registered my opposition to "Meissen porcelain" and explained why on its talk page. Olessi 16:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have a look at Meissner Porzelan in the internet even look at the bottom of Porzelan from the Manufaktur in Meißen both print Meissen. But with Königsstein or Meißen should stay!!-Stone 06:30, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving of Saxon article names 

message: Some of you please add  to your watch lists, it recently remained vandalized for quite a long time (half a day). -- Curps 00:48, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Düsseldorf 

message: Hi, I'd like to announce the new article on the Bode Museum in Berlin. Angr (talk • contribs) 15:32, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article 

message: Could somebody please join the discussion on this article. We will not be able to reach consensus in a group of two. Thx ackoz 18:42, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II]] 

message: A Move Request has been started regarding Martin Buß to Martin Buss... Olessi 18:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Martin Buß 

message: Grüß Gott everyone. I noticed there's a new kid on the block, probably a German speaker (judging by his edits rather than language) - . The guy/gal is rather interested in the Wehrmacht's role in WWII and war crimes. As I might be too biased myself to judge his/hers edits properly, could you possibly take a look at the list of contributions and tell me what you think? It seems all of his/hers edits so far were aimed at deleting info on war crimes of the Wehrmacht, SS and Waffen SS, but it might be that I'm simply overreacting... //Halibutt 22:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It certainly seems the user is indeed trying to downplay the extent of war crimes, but mostly deleting only the unsourced ones, which is hard to argue with within Wikipedia policy. I have reverted the recent removal at Wehrmacht and welcomed the user and reminded him to not delete sourced information. As I have no interest in and no knowledge of individual SS divisions, I can't really comment very much there, more input would be good. Kusma (討論) 22:42, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of the deleted information is, while true and probably verifiable from reliable sources, a bit too detailed to be in these articles (some of it is information added by Molobo about individual victims of wartime atrocities and how they died, not really notable enough). Kusma (討論) 22:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I've German 1st Mountain Division on my watchlist. On that particular article, at the very least, there was no deletion but a good differentiation (check, yesss, spelt correctly). There should have been a deletion because what Molobo brought as source did not verify the alleged killing, as Jadger stated today. (And nor was the photographer noteworthy - a division contains ten to fifteen thousand soldiers. ... Have you tried the discussion page at least elsewhere or did you just revert? Sciurinæ 22:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Could you please discuss the individual articles at their respective talk pages? Thank you, Kusma (討論) 23:07, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  User:Kenaz9 and the Wehrmacht 

message: Information about the formerly German city of Küstrin is currently split between Küstrin and Kostrzyn nad Odrą. The German WP has articles at :de:Kostrzyn nad Odrą, :de:Küstrin, and :de:Küstriner Vorland.  Input at Talk:Küstrin about where the information should be would be helpful. Thanks! Olessi 03:53, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Küstrin / Kostrzyn nad Odrą 

message: I would like to write about the small ethnic Hungarian minority living in the Austrian province of Burgenland. There are three villages with a historical Hungarian majority (Oberwart, Unterwart und Siget in der Wart), and I already wrote articles about them. They make up a small language island or microregion in Hungarian called 'Felső-Őrség' or in German 'Wart'. My question for the community of Austrian editors: if I create an article about the region wether I should use the German name, the Magyar or probably the English translation Upper-Őrség? The Felső-Őrség is primarily an ethnographic entity so it is absolutely unofficial (not a district or something like that). Please feel free to inform me about your opinions. Thanx! Zello 11:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't seen our Austrian editors here in a while, I hope some of them read this. Kusma (討論) 23:31, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd go for what's most commonly used in English literature... If there's any on it. If not, I'd go for "Upper Őrség" without the hyphen. —Nightstallion (?) 16:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure about this case. I think the official name of the place should be used in that case, are there any homepages? My guess probably is to use the German-language name in that case. I am all for the protection of minorities and the usage of their language (I think the objections by German-speakers about the Ortstafelstreit in Carinthia is ridiculous, they should simply have it in both languages, what's the big deal?). But I am not convinced about "inventing" new place names in English. A Google search shows that Wikipedia seems to be the only one using the term "Upper Őrség", which is not good. I find more hits for the Hungarian name. Either have it in German or in Hungarian, but don't invent something, that would not be encyclopedic. Gryffindor 18:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Magyars of Burgenland

message: Could an admin have Province of West Prussia redirect to West Prussia (currently the links are reversed)? Olessi 17:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Kusma (討論) 21:14, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  West Prussia 

message: There is currently a Move Request for Nazism to National Socialism. Olessi 00:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Nazism]] to [[National Socialism]]