Talk:Nok culture

message: The informations about Nok are not precise in many ways. --89.59.143.132 17:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I have reverted Nok Culture to it earlier status. This version contains a more accurate map by Locutus Borg and an inclusion into the series on Northern Nigeria. please do not undo without giving appropriate reasons
--Alaminalpha (talk) 22:32, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: reversions

message: I think it's pretty clear that the previous figure of "3000 BC" was a typo for "3000 years ago" - this would square with all the other figures of 1000 BC. The article, unfortunately, still needs sources. --Storkk 10:42, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: date

message: I remember there was an article about the Nok culture in Scientific American a couple of years ago (in the 80s?). Who still has a copy. Please cite. Nannus 21:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Litearture

message: Nok culture terracottas are heralded as the prime evidence of pre-colonial civilization in sub-Saharan Africa
the above sentence is a problem, it is one of those apologiese for a racist opinion and in the apology is the assumption of racism. pre-colonial African civilizations are not in dispute to state it like this assumes that they could be any dispute to this fact and thus introduce reasonable doubt.--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 21:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: bad phrase

message: I just realized that this artcile needs a weasle word,tag there is a lot of double speak and strange language which is almost assumping it is a mystery that Blacks could have an Iron age. Until the article can be clean this warning is needed.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 18:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Weasle words and condescending tone

message: I know understand the other users frustrations:
Saharan Commerce
The sub-Saharan region of Africa at that time was divided into two large zones: the savannah, where small communities of farmers lived in northern fertile regions with favorable agriculture, and the tropical forest which covered the majority of the southern zone where hunter-gatherers lived along the coastal areas.  
About 2,500 years ago, the populations of Northern Africa were forced south by drought (with women, children, cattle, weapons, and luggage) to the Gulf of Guinea and the south of the continent.  They introduced a new way of life because these tribes grew grain and vegetables and raised cows, sheep, and goats.  The men knew metallurgy (iron); each group had its own ceramic style.  It was the beginning of the Iron Age in Africa and the Nok culture was the first known iron-working community in Western Africa.  Merchants probably began to cross the Sahara in the course of the first millennium BC with horse-drawn chariots.  The West Africans exchanged gold, slaves, ivory, salted animal products, cloth, ceramic, glass, fruits, and horses.  Impressed by this last animal, Nok artists modeled statuettes of riders, dignitaries on horseback, pieces today that are very rare and of great value on the art market.
there is absolutly nothing that excuses this from being called OR. It cannot stay in the article until it becomes an encyclopedic section, not original opinion. "they introduced a new way of life because these tribe grew grain" who said this, where is the ref, it is an editors opinion.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 18:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed original research

message: Why does it say that they started in 500 BC and then say that carbon dating has dated the terracotta sculptures to 2500 years ago?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.188.66.196 (talk) 23:13, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ...¿because 500 BC ~= 2500 years ago?.--Seba5618 (talk) 20:13, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dating 

message: The caption reads "Nok rider and horse". Were there horses in Africa in the 500BC??84.222.237.213 (talk) 14:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Figurine of the Nok rider 

message: This was not a civilization, this was a culture. I changed "civilization" with "culture" throughout the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brotherboer (talk • contribs) 20:42, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "Not a civilization becasue if it was a civilization then the true name of the nation state would be known" That has nothing to do with anything. Look at the Indus Valley Civilzation, the Norte Chico Civilization, and the Erlitou Sites... Collectively considered three of the first six civilizations and we don't know their historical name because they either lacked writing or we can't decipher their writing. Anyway, there is no universally accepted criteria for what defines a civilization and it varies greatly between archeologists/scientists. Some may very well consider the Nok a Civilization; it is a similar level of advancement to Norte Chico which is considered a civilization despite not having writing, ceramics, metal working, or advanced agriculture. It usually ultimately depends on levels of social organization and government and it may simply be that we don't have enough data to form an acceptable theory surrounding Nok government to properly classify them. 173.56.79.75 (talk) 16:30, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: This was not a civilization

message: I removed this; "This controversial theory can be regarded as racist." from the end of this "Proto Yorubas were the creators of Nok civilization, and the mystery of the disappearance of the Nok civilization is attributed to the disappearance of Yorubas from northern Nigeria due to racial assimilation. This controversial theory can be regarded as racist." as it was uncited and unexplained in the article. Came out of left field. Who's it even meant to be racist against? The Nok? Why would anyone being racist against some people who disappeared about 1511 years ago, so I assume not.121.73.221.187 (talk) 09:36, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Racist?

message: An editor went through this article (and others) adding claims by A.O. Olubunmi that the Nok were an early form of the Yoruba.  I'm not familiar at all with this topic but it appeared that a lot of undue weight was being given to a fringe theory.  Olubunmi is said to be physiologist and engineer which makes me question whether he is a reliable source.  Anyway, I toned down the prose and condensed it while retaining the basic claim.  If anyone is familiar enough with the subject maybe you can look it over and see if it belongs or perhaps can even be expanded again. SQGibbon (talk) 01:50, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yoruba claims 

message: I saw a BBC documentary that linked the Chinese Terracotta Army with Greece on flimsier similarities between their statuary than the remarkable similarities between Nok and Chinese terracotta figures. It seems to me that this is a very eurocentric view of history ('the Greeks had to teach the Chinese how to make anatomically correct statues' seems trite given the sophistication of contemporary Chinese art). On the other hand the Nok figures are more sophisticated than the Chinese ones, but have the same method of construction (coil built). It seems unlikely to me that Greek stonemasons would travel to the ends of the earth to teach people how to make terracotta figures. Is there any evidence that the Nok and the Chinese were in contact with each other. There was more compelling evidence for an Egyptian/Chinese link, so why not with West Africa too? Stub Mandrel (talk) 14:16, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Connections with China?

message: Anon
2015  Research continues into 3000 year-old Nok culture of sub-saharan Africa. Adventures in Archaeology. Archaeology News from Past Horizons, February 8.
Breunig, Peter, Universität Frankfurt am Main, Nigeria. National Commission for Museums and Monuments, Liebieghaus, and Peter Breunig
2014  Nok: African sculpture in archaeological context. Frankfurt am Main: Africa Magna Verlag.
Brodie, Neil, and Donna Yates
2012  Nok Terracottas. Trafficking Culture: Researching the Global Traffic in Looted Cultural Objects.
Department of the Arts of Africa, Oceania, and the Americas
2000  Nok Terracottas (500 B.C.–200 A.D.). The Met’s Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History.
Fagg, Bernard
1959  THE NOK CULTURE IN PREHISTORY. Journal of Historical Society of Nigeria 1(4).
Fagg, Bernard
1969  Recent work in west Africa: New light on the Nok culture. World Archaeology 1(1): 41–50.
de Grunne, Bernard, and Banque Generale Du Luxembourg Staff
1999  The birth of art in Africa: Nok statuary in Nigeria. Vilo International, Paris, September 1.
Magazine, New African
2013  Nigeria: Nok has more wonders yet for the world! Culture. New African Magazine, December 3.
Rupp, Nicole, James Ameje, and Peter Breunig
2005  New studies on the Nok culture of central Nigeria. Journal of African Archaeology 3(2): 283–290.
Rupp, Nicole, Peter Breunig, and Stefanie Kahlheber
2008  Exploring the Nok Enigma. Antiquity 82(316).
Shaw, Thurstan
1981  The Nok sculptures of Nigeria. Scientific American 244(2): 154–166.
(AmaranthRose (talk) 14:33, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: I feel that this flag is inappropriately placed onto our Nigerian Nok culture.
Why would a British flag be shown along side one of the worlds most oldest cultures. 
Especially with regards to the slave trade, and the attacks upon our history and land, carried out by the British UK?
The British UK have tried and continue to disrespect our culture, till today. Can this flag be removed, also from the following page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nok_culture  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oziomoluabi (talk • contribs) 04:23, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove the British Flag Associated with our Nok Culture 

message: Are there any sources for the "Nok rider and horse" and "Female Statue" pictures? Also, as someone previously mentioned, are we able to call that animal a horse? Is there any evidence of horses in Nok culture? Johns9ea (talk) 20:37, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture Sources