Talk:Kingdom Come (comics)

message: This contains Red Tornado twice - is this on purpose? --91.23.206.206 (talk) 13:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Supermans JL 

message: The article proposes that this hero is a combination of all the orginal Metal Men. I'm not sure this is a correct assumption.  Alloy is present at Armageddon.  After the nuclear missile goes off and we see the skeletal remains of the victims, there is one particularly tall skeleton draped over the wreckage.  Given that Alloy was the only super-tall hero depicted in the series, it has to be his.  Atom-Smasher is tall, but not as tall as the skeleton would imply.  All that said, it must be noted that the Metal Men had no skeletons. They were pure metal with small computers in their heads.  This may be an unintended discontinuity, as Alloy survived the nuclear destruction of Kansas.  
Did Alex Ross describe this Alloy origin?  --Eddylyons 15:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alloy's there. The afore-mentioned giant skeleton, likely King Crimson, is draped over the partially melted remains of a large humanoid.--24.155.140.54 09:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alloy 

message: The length of this plot summary is unwieldy and, it seems a little outside the bounds of fair use. I would like to trim it down within the next few days. --Chris Griswold 07:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary Length 

message: I like the commentary in the "Behind the Story" section, however it's in desperate need of citations and references.  As it exists this section displays several classic Wikipedia problems, including original research, passive commentary (e.g. "Kingdom Come is considered by many..."), quotes from the creators with no footnotes, etc.  While I agree with the editor above (Chris Griswold) that this article could use some trimming the quality of detail and writing makes this a candidate for a WikiProject Comics featured article, but not in it's present unreferenced form. -Markeer 13:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the quality of detail in the other sections is actually a boon. --Chris Griswold 13:30, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I will be removing this section within the next few days. It's just not useful if it's not cited. --Chris Griswold 07:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed this section.  If information needs to be retrieved with citations (or a few items added to a "Trivia" section), please refer to my edit on this date in the article history -Markeer 13:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Behind the Story Needs Citations 

message: It appears that some careless person destroyed my effort to put some order in the character images section, I added a lot of empty lines between them to avoid the mosaic look that it has now. 
KetinPorta 14:05, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an encyclopedia, so that kind of lay-out just doesn't fly. Kusonaga 17:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Do we really need that many pictures? They really just clutter the page.--Toffile 17:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I think the pictures should go all together, IMO (when it comes to the characters anyway). Kusonaga 18:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do think we need to cut a number of pictures, just as the plot summary needs to be condensed.--Chris Griswold 19:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks to whoever finally worked up the discipline to remove the images. Kusonaga 13:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some Careless Person 

message: I don't recall Offspring appearing in Kingdom Come and thought he first appeared in The Kingdom, am I wrong?
Duggy 1138 07:40, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Effects of KC: Offspring... 

message: In the section on the MLF members it says
:Vandal Savage: The only willing member of the MLF with any powers to speak of: immortality
But The King of the Royal Flush Gang is also an immortal.  Should we fix this or is it a different King character? 199.245.163.1 13:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mankind Liberation Front 

message: Somebody stated that Jimmy Olsen was killed in the Joker's killing spree.  However, Jimmy Olsen appears on the big screen television of pg 20 in the Kingdom Come collection.
That's a video of his time as turtle boy - Jimmy is dead, we see this later in the flashback to the Joker attacking the daily planet - he's the ginger guy with the flashing signal watch . --Charlesknight 22:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jimmy Olsen is not dead

message: A user who has repeatedly vandalized comics articles added: "In the Absolute edtion of Kingdom Come, Mark Waid, again confirms that this Flash is Wally West.  More importantly though, Alex Ross also states that this Flash is Wally West, however, due to the Flash's evolution, Wally's mind has grown to encompass speedsters that have trancended into the speed force."
Can someone verify this? --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 14:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure about the "encompass speedsters" bit, but in The Kingdom follow-up series, the Flash was indeed confirmed as Wally West. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 15:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

text: In the latest Wizard magazine (#191; Sept. 2007), Ross provides comments for several key charcters in the book; here's what he writes about the Flash: "The KC Flash was always intended to be a combination of the three Flashes, and the character was to be called Mercury with the young female Flash just being the new Flash ... It was always intended that she would be the daughter of Wally West and Linda [Park]."  Here are his comments about the Green Lantern: "It was meant to be a bit of a mystery--could that be an older Hal Jordan?  ... Ultimately, it's shown to be Alan Scott, and the clue is in the final battle when Green Arrow pierces his armor with wooden arrows." (p. 76)--Galliaz 20:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Verification needed 

message: Incredibly detailed, but this cannot pass a GA in current form.  All it is is an extended plot summary with many pictures that may not, in fact, reach fair use standards, zero citations for anything, and no examination of critical or popular reception.  It's a great start, but still has a long way to go. --badlydrawnjeff talk 19:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA notes

message: No mention is made in the article about alternate endings. I just happened to be reading my copy of KC tonight. I have the four issue series when it came out in 1996. The last scene is different from that mentioned in this article. It does not depict anyone meeting in a restaurant.
In the copy I have, the third and fourth pages from the end have Wonder Woman flying to the farm where Superman lives. He just finished creating a cemetery for everyone who died in the war, and others who died since he disappeared. WW gives him a gift, a pair of spectacles, which he dons. She kisses him passionately, then leaves, calling him Clark. Superman then uses a giant plow -- presumably made from the remnants of the Gulag? -- and digs furrows with it (the obvious image is that of beating swords into plow shares). On the second last page we see Norman McCay talking to the Angel of Death, while watching Superman. The Angel reveals his identity by pulling back his cowl. The man has red hair with a white streak in it. I don't know the DC universe that well (I was a Marvel fan), but I'm guessing this revelation is important. Was he the Sandman, perhaps? In any event, McCay finds himself back in church. The last page has McCay preaching. He's preaching from Revelations, but he has put a positive spin on it. The church has more people than previously. One of the parishioners is the man with the red hair and white streak.
Now, I'm pretty sure I've seen the ending mentioned in the article, about Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman meeting in a restaurant. It seems very familiar. It is not the ending in the original comic. This fact should be mentioned in the article. Someone with more knowledge should indicate where the different endings appeared. Agoodall 05:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Epilogue (which takes place in the Planet Krypton resteraunt visited earlier,) is in the paperback collection of Kingdom Come, at least. I know because I have it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.79.10.135 (talk) 04:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate Endings 

message: I feel obligated to point out the beautiful Captain Marvel picture is in fact NOT from Kingdom Come. It's from the 2004 book "The Power of Hope," which follows the Captain. That particular picture is on the back cover of the book, and intended to be reminiscent of Marvel's "less-friendly" pose from Kingdom Come. There was even a poster of that picture released in 2004 (though it only contains his upper body and one arm.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.79.10.135 (talk) 04:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain Marvel picture 

message: The article says that the Green Lantern in Kingdom Come is Alan Scott. Surely this is wrong. I think that he is Hal Jordan. He is a representitive of Oa at the U.N., Alan Scott hever really had anything to do with Oa. The Prime Source 20:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the UN scene it looks very much like he's wearing the Alan Scott ring as opposed to the standard GL Corps version, and in The Kingdom follow-up series the weakness to wood is specifically mentioned- it's definitley Alan. MarkSutton 13:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: But Scott has nothing to do with Oa, and if that was him, he would be a man surely in his 80's by then, that has to be Hal. maybe the wood thing was just an inside joke between comic fansCole435 05:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the latest Wizard magazine (#191; Sept. 2007), Ross provides comments for several key charcters in the book; here's what he writes about the Green Lantern: "It was meant to be a bit of a mystery--could that be an older Hal Jordan? ... Ultimately, it's shown to be Alan Scott, and the clue is in the final battle when Green Arrow pierces his armor with wooden arrows." (p. 76)--Galliaz 20:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Green Lantern 

message: This article is the current focus of the Comics Project Improvement Drive. The aim is to focus the eyes of the project here and help bring the article up in quality.
The first step is to run through the article and throw and see if there are any minor fixes that can be done and then throw in thoughts on areas to address. There is also a sub-section below for people to add useful resources that can be added to the article to help flesh out the real world aspects. (Emperor 23:12, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Erik has collected a lot of resources for a rewrite but has been working on another rewrite for the moment but has thrown us the link which is jam-packed with goodies: User:Erik/Kingdom Come. (Emperor 00:10, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comics Project Improvement Drive

message: If you know of any useful articles, interviews, studies, etc. then add then in here and we can work on integrating them into this entry. NB if they aren't easily accessible then drop in a note if you have it and a precis of the important and relevant bits would be a great help. It'd also be best if the references are templated before being put in the article. (Emperor 23:12, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Erik has collected a lot of resources for a rewrite but has been working on another rewrite for the moment but has thrown us the link which is jam-packed with goodies: User:Erik/Kingdom Come. (Emperor 00:10, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Resources

message: I've heard rumors that they are planning a Kingdom Come movie. Any truth to it? TwistedRed 21:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Movie? 

message: I've requested this be moved to Kingdom Come (comics). WP:NCC clearly states "In general, when naming an article, use the name itself, without further disambiguation (e.g. Jack Kirby) unless that leads to ambiguity, in which case, follow with "(comics)" (e.g. Ralph Macchio (comics))." It only suggests using "(comic book)" when "...disambiguating between a proper name (a character name, a group name, a location, etc.), and another related eponymous work" - rst20xx (talk) 16:38, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move 

message: ;Books
* (Wizard)
* (Wizard)
*
*
*
:*"Other comics have dealt with the larger implications of the Holocaust, using it as the basis for stories and story elements.  Concentration camps and death camps have often been depicted in comic books—including the internment camp for "bad" metahumans in Kingdom Come..." (pg. 139)
:*Norman McCay, the minister who is the protagonist in Kingdom Come, was modeled after (and by) Alex Ross's father, a minister himself. (pg. 178)
*
:*"Mark Waid and Alex Ross's four-part Elseworlds series Kingdom Come (1996) gave Batman another possible future, its vision of a snowy-haired cynical technocrat distinct from Dark Knight, but indebted to it for the very concept of alternative timelines where iconic, never-changing characters are allowed to age, growing weaker but wiser." (pg. 40)
*
*
:*"The most conservative story of the nostalgic wave came from Mark Waid with his four-part series Kingdom Come published by DC, and illustrated (painted) by Alex Ross.  Waid's view of the future was a dismal DC Universe where traditional superheroes like Superman and Batman have retired (and were not accessible to the public anymore).  The world was overrun by a new generation of superheroes resembling the West Coast-style heroes of Image and Marvel.  When the young breed of heroes caused a nuclear catastrophe, Superman comes back to lead the older superheroes to discipline the new brood and to control chaos through the old order.  The clamor for father figures was intensified by Ross' graphics which depicted the old heroes in a style reminiscent of national socialistic propaganda material—the hero-figures were often lit from below and shown from a worm's eye view.  Kingdom Come sold 200,000 copies at a time of crisis for other comic sales." (pg. 196)
*
:*"The concept originated with artist Alex Ross, who described it as 'the last stand of the super heroes.'  As ultimately developed in collaboration with writer Mark Waid, the world was set in a future where characters like Superman and Batman have retired and been replaced with a new breed of nihilistic heroes whose recklessness is threatening the world.  A grim, aging Superman ultimately returns to fight an apocalyptic battle that Ross acknowledges is 'a metaphor for today's comic market and how the current, more violent flashy super heroes have changed the playing field.'  It is also an epic adventure story featuring virtually every super hero DC has ever published, and the art took Ross almost two years to produce." (pg. 182)
:*"'Superman as an older man is something we've never really dealt with in depth,' said Waid, but the original super hero became the moral compass for the story, and his values were something that Kingdom Come was designed to reaffirm.  'Alex and I are both devotees of real heroes,' said Waid. 'Heroes who don't kill, heroes who do things to save people, heroes who work for the common good.'" (pg. 182)
;Journals
*
*
;Wizard
*KINGDOM COME CONNECTION (archive)
*BLOWN TO KINGDOM COME (archive)
*ROSS JOINS HIGH ‘SOCIETY’ (archive)
*THE JUSTICE SOCIETY RETURNS! (archive)
*ALEX ROSS: INSIDE THE ARTIST'S GALLERY (archive)
*50 GREATEST DEATHS IN COMICS HISTORY! (archive)
;Comic Book Resources:
*DC's Will Be Done: Company Cancels "Kingdom Come"; Comicology Coverage
*Waid on the Keys to 'Kingdom,' Defining Hypertime and Ooverturning 'Crisis'
*Ten Years Later: Reflecting on "Kingdom Come" With Alex Ross
;Other links
*Interview with Alex Ross at UGO
*An Interview with Alex Ross at IGN
Resources to use. —Erik (talk • contrib) 18:43, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that - it is really great and shoul prove very useful. The Wizard links are all 404s so I've added the Internet Archive link to the earliest cached version. I also updated the CBR links (as their site moved recently). (Emperor (talk) 15:48, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resources to use 

message: I suggested a split of the section of Kingdom Come characters, and believe that it should be split into a subpage to make the parent article to be more concised.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 00:28, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It is just a suggestion, that's why I put a template for splitting instead of doing it myself.  That's what there's this discussion, because I want everyone agree or realize the necessity of  "trimmed back to what is reasonable for a general use encyclopedia." --NeoBatfreak (talk) 03:00, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Kingdom Come characters 

message: The sinopsis of the story, as it is written now, is misleading and does not summarize the true conflict and themes of KINGDOM COME. I'm referring specifically to this last bit:
Between these two groups is Batman and his assembled team, who attempt to contain the escalating disaster, foil the machinations of Lex Luthor, and prevent a world-ending superhuman war.
That is completely misleading, as Batman is not the main character of the story and he does not drive the main conflict. A better attempt at summarizing KINGDOM COME's plot would be as follows, which is also the sinopsis given by DC Comics in its own website:
In the near future, the DC Universe is spinning out of control. The new generation of heroes have lost their moral compass, becoming as reckless and violent as the villains they fight. The previous regime of heroes—the Justice League—returns under dire circumstances, which sets up a battle of the old guard against these uncompromising protectors in a conflict that will define what heroism truly is.
Pagina18 (talk) 16:54, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading Sinopsis