Talk:The Ordeal of Gilbert Pinfold

message: Work has begun, to make a decent article about this important book. Brianboulton (talk) 10:20, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Work interrupted about two weeks ago, now resuming. Brianboulton (talk) 16:28, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Work in progess

message: Following a nice talk page ping I will have a look over this and note any thoughts I have.
*I've copyedited a bit in the lead
*Added some wikilinks and copyedited very little in the plot
*Perhaps add to footnote 1 that Officers and Gentlemen was indeed actually finished a couple of years later. The impression one might get from the present wording is that it wasn't
*Quote box in "Themes"; when did Betjeman say this? I would add the year
*I'd prefer to see the "Adaptations" section as a third-level header between "Publication history" and "Critical reception". The latter section ends so nicely and the "Adaptions" section on the end seems kind of misplaced in my opinion.
Very nice and interesting piece of work that I enjoyed, though I had no knowledge of the subject beforehand. Thank you, Brian, for bringing it to my attention. I hope my copy-edits and these thoughts are helpful. Thanks, —  Cliftonian (talk)  15:55, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Thoughts from Cliftonian

message: BB has been kind enough to ask for informal peer comment from me. It will be very short measure. To maintain a Gilbertian theme, I found nothing whatever to grumble at. This is the best I can manage:
*Writing history
**"but if he did, it has not survived." – can you really make this unqualified statement? It may be in someone's attic somewhere.
**"the historian Rebecca West" – I know she wrote some historical stuff, but "historian" is an unexpected word to apply to her, I feel.
**"that affected the novel's completion" – delayed?
*Critical reception
**"The TLS's anonymous reviewer" – I can easily find the name from the online archive next time I'm at the BL if you'd like it.
*Adaptations
**Cast list here if wanted.
Sorry not to have more to offer, but it's a compliment, in truth. Tim riley talk  12:28, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: To Cliftonian and Tim: many thanks for the above comments and suggestions, which I will act on presently. It would indeed be nice to know who the TLS reviewer was, Tim, if you can supply this information. Brianboulton (talk) 23:42, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The TLS reviewer was R. G. G. Price, a name I remember from Punch in the 1960s, but not a regular TLS contributor. He wrote  only one other review for the TLS. His review was not as unfavourable as the quote might lead one to think. For example: "It is time people stopped treating Mr Waugh as a failed  Mauriac. He is a lightweight who has suffered by being bracketed with completely different writers like Mr Graham Greene". Price compares Waugh with Wodehouse: "…he shares his  complete originality, and he shares his freshets of wonderful new jokes, of humour that is as pure as the horror of a Border Ballad or the devotion of a carol."  ("Self Portrait?", TLS, 19 July 1957, p. 437) – Tim riley talk  12:57, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

text: OK, I will not press the point. You are right that it seems like an appendix to the article, and that is why I thought it a little odd on looking for the first time, but treated as an appendix I think it is all right. Thanks and I'm glad if I have been helpful. —  Cliftonian (talk)  20:56, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments from Tim riley

message: ::Seems the quality work we've learned to take for granted from Brian.  A few comments.
::Lede
:*"For his health's sake" I think "for the sake of his health" fits the rhythm of the sentence better.  YMMV.
:*"hears voices that continually insult, taunt, and threaten him".  As I understand it, one of them is sympathetic, so is it "continually"?
::*I think Margaret's "sympathetic" comments might be classified as taunts (or, as we used to put it crudely at school, cock-teasing). But I've removed "continually" as unnecessary.
:*The lede says that the voices were a product of his drug-taking, but Pinfold himself doubts that, thinking it Angelic intervention, in your recitation of the plot, and apparently he is credible enough on that score not to be contradicted by your authorial voice.
::*That's a very good point. I have rectified, and at the same time expanded the lead to signal the parity between Waugh's real-life experiences and those he creared for his alter ego Pinfold.
:*"his medical advisers" His doctor(s)? Or is this the way of distinguishing Pinfold's experiences from Waugh's near identical?
:*"sounds and conversations from elsewhere in the ship".  If this is Margaret et al., then do the conversations and so forth really come from elsewhere in the ship under any theory?  Or is this simply his initial conclusion? My suspicion would be the cruise director advertising the art  auction, but that's just me.
::*Waugh/Pinfold makes no mention of a public address system, so the voices apparently entering his cabin are inexplicable to him. They appear to come from various parts of the ship – the deck, the dining salon, the captain's cabin, other cabins. I've changed "elsewhere in" to "other parts of".
:*"he realises he is being talked about".  I assure you, people on cruise ships never discuss their fellow passengers ... Never! Well, hardly ever.
:*"leaves the ship" disembarks?
::Background
:*"writing had stagnated" as in unable to write (writer's block?) or it had deteriorated?
::Writing history
:*"summer coming-out ball" also one in the winter? A pipe to the type of event contemplated might be in order.
:*creating the return to the words that introduce the novel".  This is to this point unmentioned, so the "the" after "creating" might be assuming too much knowledge by the reader.  Similarly the subtitle is to this point, I think, unmentioned even in lede. 
::*Good pony, addressed.
:*"Sykes maintains" It may be wise to remind the reader that Sykes is maintaining in his guise as biographer, rather than in reaction (at least not principally, I hope) to being included in the novel.
::Paranormal
:*"This device, supposedly, could cure all ills" perhaps "This device was reputed to cure all ills" save the reader some commas but  the one following "ills" seems unneeded.
:*"as apparently had one of Laura Waugh's cows" perhaps, "and said that so had one of Laura Waugh's cows"
*That's all I have.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:48, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments by Wehwalt

message: Page 28 of the May 9, 1957 New York Times has this paragraph, along with other similar notes, under the heading "Books--Authors": "Evelyn Waugh's new novel, 'The Ordeal of Gilbert Pinfold,' will be published Aug. 12 by Little, Brown.  The subject is 'a brief bout of hallucination' the author suffered three years ago."
The NY Times reviews were rather negative.  The reviews are by Gerald Sykes and Orville Prescott; they appeared on August 11 and 12, 1957.  Brian, if you're interested, email me and I'll reply with copies.  Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 01:25, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Publication date of the U.S. edition 

message: I have not read the novel, something I must rectify, but I have always understood that Waugh makes reference in it to the Narcissus washstand, a piece of furniture by William Burges, which Waugh owned.  Perhaps worth a mention, if accurate?  KJP1 (talk) 22:04, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Narcissus washstand]]

message: A monument to Brian Boulton's work on Wikipedia. Thank you. Spicemix (talk) 01:09, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  A very fine article 

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