Talk:LGBT rights opposition/Archive 1

message: "Most experts believe that there is no demonstrable link between pedophilia and homosexuality, and that the once-popular connection between the two in the public mind is a product of ignorance and bigotry."
second clause is POV
First clause is conclusion needs to be cited and supported. Please discuss this point, this is my opinion.
:Please sign your posts, anon. The second is not POV as it is an opinion attributed to a group of indiviudals: it may well be true that experts do believe the link is a product of bigorty and ignorance. Further more, here are some quotes backing up the former statement:
::"Concerns that children of gay or lesbian parents are more likely than children of heterosexual parents to be sexually abused have also been addressed. Results of work in this area reveal that the great majority of adults who perpetrate sexual abuse are male; sexual abuse of children by adult women is extremely rare (Finkelhor & Russell, 1984; Jones & MacFarlane, 1980; Sarafino, 1979). Moreover, the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse cases involve an adult male abusing a young female (Jenny, Roesler, & Poyer, 1994; Jones & MacFarlane, 1980). Available evidence reveals that gay men are no more likely than heterosexual men to perpetrate child sexual abuse (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978; Jenny et al., 1994; Sarafino, 1979). Fears that children in custody of gay or lesbian parents might be at heightened risk for sexual abuse are thus without basis in the research literature." - APA Public Interest Directorate on Lesbian and Gay Parenting
::"Fears about children of lesbian or gay parents being sexually abused by adults, ostracized by peers, or isolated in single-sex lesbian or gay communities have received no scientific support." APA Briefing Sheet on Same-Sex Families and Relationships
::"The number of Americans who believe the myth that gay people are child molesters has declined substantially. In a 1970 national survey, more than 70% of respondents agreed with the assertions that "Homosexuals are dangerous as teachers or youth leaders because they try to get sexually involved with children" or that "Homosexuals try to play sexually with children if they cannot get an adult partner."1
::By contrast, in a 1999 national poll, the belief that most gay men are likely to molest or abuse children was endorsed by only 19% of heterosexual men and 10% of heterosexual women. Even fewer – 9% of men and 6% of women – regarded most lesbians as child molesters." Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation
::Reflecting the results of these and other studies, the mainstream view among researchers and professionals who work in the area of child sexual abuse is that homosexual and bisexual men do not pose any special threat to children. Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation
:Some more research is probably needed to find the original sources for the above remarks. --Axon 09:57, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree: I merely stated that exoperts might say it, in which case it would not be POV. However, my (shallow) research didn't uncover any such statements. The former is sufficient, IMHO, anyway. Axon 09:09, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, barring further objection, restore first sentance, second is easly an article in itself (the nature of negative views of homosexuality) --Tznkai 04:24, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted passage 

message: This article has improved, and kudos to everyone who has worked on it. I'd like to ask that everyone take a giant step back and look clearly at this article. Look at the title. Look at the content. It is NOT about Pedophilia and sexual orientation. It is about Homophobia and pedophilia. Look at the history section. If it were about Pedophilia and sexual orientation, it would begin with something like "throughout recorded history, there has been Pedophilia." Instead, the very first sentence brings up how homosexuality became less taboo in the sexual revolution. This is not germane to the subject, people. It is germane to the subject of how homophobia gave rise to a 20th-century urban legend type "all gays are child molesters" mindset, and Anita Bryant would be a good topic in that article. She is not germane to this article. I suggest we move the entire article to Homophobia and pedophilia and start a brand new article here, and if there is a History section start it in the distant past, with cave paintings if we can find any of pedophilia, and with the earliest mention of pedophilia if we cannot find cave paintings. We can add how different cultures view pedophilia differently, and have throughout history - feudal Japan comes to mind, for example. We might mention that the age of consent has varied through the years, tossing in Shakespeare's Juliet. Then on to the purported actual subject! There are at least eight possible permutations or categories: 
* Hetersexual men abusing male children
* Hetersexual men abusing female children
* Hetersexual women abusing male children
* Hetersexual women abusing female children
* Homosexual men abusing male children
* Homosexual men abusing female children
* Homosexual women abusing male children
* Homosexual women abusing female children
It is obvious that category 2, hetero male adult on female juvenile, will probably be largest. What is second largest? Can we find statistics anywhere? Why do men who are heterosexual with adult relationships abuse male children? Can we get enough data on the psychology of each category? We must include all eight categories for this to be an article which matches the title. Currently ONLY the homophobic gay-bashing late 20th century meme is being addressed. I welcome comments, discussion, feedback - I think this article should be written. I also think it should be written from scratch, because nothing here relates to the darn title. KillerChihuahua 04:01, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rant and Suggestion

message: The article repeatedly uses the term "fundamentalist" in a stereotypical, pejorative way, with little or no understanding of what a fundamentalist is. Also see Associated Press guidelines for recommendations on use of the term without offensiveness. Pollinator 18:12, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV tag - 2-20-06