Talk:Person-centred planning

message: Max/everyone: I've been wondering what we can do to emphasise how the main effects of person-centred planning aren't any paperwork that is created. Any thoughts? 
Rowmn (talk) 14:12, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added this in the 'Outcomes section' to emphasise the need for planning to lead to action:  Person Centred Thinking and Planning is founded on the premise that genuine listening contains an implied promise to take action. Unless what is learned about how the person wishes to live, and where they wish to go in their lives is recorded and acted upon, any planning will have been a waste of time, and more importantly a betrayal of the person and the trust they have placed in those who have planned with them.  Feel free to edit to make this message clearer! Max (talk) 13:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Jan 08: Suggested changes

message: I think a To Do list would be a good idea.
There are a lot of helpful suggestions from Scartol and Roger Davis on the Peer Review Page - I'm reposting them here.
I think most of these comments are fair and constructive, and will be helpful in making the article better, though some of the 'vagueness' complained about is due to the openness of PCP - it's up to the person to fill it with content, depending on their own priorities (rather like Wikipedia again!) - we need to find a clearer way of explaining this deliberate vagueness. It's definitely going to take some time though - might take a few of us to really sort this article out, and I'd love it to reach 'featured article' status one day soon! Max (talk) 23:01, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments received

message: Per your request, I've had a look at this article. It appears to be focused on an important topic, but as a layperson with absolutely no knowledge of the field being discussed, I feel lost and confused by it. Much of the prose is vague, and I feel as though it's been written largely by people in the field for people in the field. Let's look at the lead, for example:
Person Centred Planning (PCP) is a process designed to assist someone to make plans for their future. This is a very ambiguous sentence. I feel that the first sentence should give a phrase about who generally uses it, and what specific purpose it serves. "someone" is perplexingly unclear. "make plans" about what? Vacation destinations? Education paths? Diet choices? This needs to be more specific. 
It is used most often as a life planning model to enable individuals with disabilities to increase their personal self-determination and improve their own independence. Okay, this is better – but is there really much of a difference between "increase their personal self-determination" and "improve their own independence"? If so, does this distinction really belong in the first paragraph of the article? A better use of the valuable first few sentences (which will either draw the reader in or repulse her/him) is to explain how PCP differs from other leading models of "life planning" (a phrase which is pretty unclear to me as well). 
Person Centred Planning was adopted as government policy in the United Kingdom through the 'Valuing People' White Paper in 2001, and is accepted as good practice in many countries throughout the world. The first part of this sentence is okay, but the second part is rather vague. Better to give other examples of governments which use it, or statements from advocacy groups(?) and/or health organizations(?) which endorse it. 
It is most often used for life planning with people with learning and developmental disabilities, You've already said this, right? So it's unnecessary. 
though recently it has been advocated as a method of planning personalised support with other sections of society who find themselves disempowered by traditional methods of service delivery, including older people. Very unclear to me. "Other sections of society" brings to my mind zip codes and area codes. I admit to having no idea what "traditional methods of service delivery" are; I'm envisioning a housekeeping company. 
Also note that the "including older people" phrase at the end will – in the minds of most readers – be applied to the noun closest to it, in this case "methods of service delivery", which makes no sense. I'd say something like "...with other individuals – especially older people – who are disempowered by...". 
I suppose my point here is – and this is something I've said frequently about software designers – it's vital to write about your topic in a way that the uninitiated will be able to understand. If this article has indeed been written by folks in the field of study being discussed, you'll need to find ways to think like an outsider: Question your assumptions about what's being discussed, and try to write sentences that require no prior knowledge (or as little as possible) about the concepts involved.
Some other points in the body of the article:
I would retitle "Theoretical basis" as "Background". Start by discussing the people who came up with it, and explain what they described as the shortcomings with the existing methods. 
any methods used must be reflective of the individual's personal communication mechanisms What on earth is a "personal communication mechanism"? Is that anything like "talking"? I worry that we may be overdoing it with the jargon here. (Or, it's also possible that – as above – specific terms are being used with which the layperson isn't familiar. In such a case, explanation or alternative wording is necessary.) 
The article needs many more citations. They should also be in one consistent format; currently it has some footnotes, some parenthetical citations, and large blocks of text with no sources cited at all. 
Blockquotes should only be used when the quotation is four lines or more, and it should be set apart from the article with the  template (or one like it). See Wikipedia:MOS#Quotations. 
Good luck with this article – the editors involved obviously have a great knowledge about and passion for this subject. The next step is to translate it into a format that the rest of the world can access. Please let me know if you have any other questions. – Scartol • Tok 15:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Review from Scartol

message: Thanks for the invitation to peer-review this. I'll comment very broadly as my suggestions (and they are, of course, only suggestions) will considerably change the content and structure of the article.
First, I echo Scartol's remark about citations. In a nutshell, see WP:V for what to cite and WP:REF for how to cite it. 
The intro needs to explain unambiguously and in jargon-free language what PCP is. Simply calling it a process designed to assist someone is not clear enough. The introduction needs to explain what steps the process involves. Generally, article introductions are two to four paragraphs in length, so the current one needs expanding to summarise the sections that follow. 
I recommend a new Background section to explain the pre-PCP problem and then go on to explain the PCP solution. 
To be honest, the current Theoretical basis section reads like extracts from a Powerpoint presentation. It should be dispassionate: that is, read less like a brochure or prospectus and more like an entry in a global encyclopedia. The list of founding parents needs considerable explanation. Names without context don't mean much. Some of these could be wiki-linked, if articles exist, others could have some explanation of their credentials. 
The second paragraph of Methods is almost entirely jargon. I suggest it is expanded and clarified – with wiki-links, text, or both – so that the curious lay-reader can grasp the principles. 
The Limitations section says only what its advocates, um, advocate. I have concerns about neutrality. What are the drawbacks of PCP? What do critics say? These views need to be sought out and included within the article. 
The Outcomes section would greatly benefit from some peer-reviewed material from the healthcare press. Discussion of studies would also be good. 
As ever, if you have any questions, please contact me, --ROGER DAVIES talk 13:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments from Roger Davies

message: The Life Planning article is stub class, wondering if this should be linked as it seems to be related. Jasonaltenburg (talk) 08:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I was thinking about this (the link with 'life planning' as a general concept) after reading the comments generated by the peer review process. But as you say Max, the current life planning article needs some work before we can do anything. Rowmn (talk) 17:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jan 08: Life Planning 

message: OK! I had a go at the 'theoretical basis' (now 'background') section. Didn't mean to spend more than 10 minutes on it, but then couldn't stop. The 'diff' page makes it look like I deleted what was there, but most of it actually remains. Feel completely free to undo/edit/redistribute new text/etc - I'm under no illusions that it's right as it stands. Have a feeling that the older text (now at the bottom) might need to move into the next section which is actually about the details of the processes. Rowmn (talk) 10:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feb 08: Comments/discussion of edits 

message: In understanding Maslow’s concept of needs we need to look at mainly in the basis of relationship first and then how it applies there after. We can say based on how we all interact with people around us that 'Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs' becomes very relevant. If one need is not met it becomes very difficult to get the next need met. The issues of trust and who to trust sets in. How, what, when, where, etc. Maslow becomes very relevant in PCP's when looking at Maslow in this light and the importance of How, what, when, where, etc. is then attainable. Because the plan is supported for the person by the people around him or her. The better the relationship the easier and more effective the plan becomes. The grander the dreams and hopes. The better the supports and the more the investment from the person it becomes more person centered. They know they aren't in this alone. We all need each other to become self actual. Then we can say I made it there.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.70.156 (talk) 18:19, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  March 2010: 

message: I am trying to update the Helen Sanderson Associates (HSA) links on this page as the are appearing as no longer available. At the same time I am trying to tie up with who HSA are and the work on person centred planning and thinking. Sadly the Editor has deleted my updates. I would like the referneces to be current and usable and make the work on person centered 360 degress with those leading this work. HSASUE  — Preceding unsigned comment added by HSASUE (talk • contribs) 11:40, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi HSASUE. WP has tens of thousands of editors, I'm assuming that the editor who removed the link to HSA did so in good faith adhering to WP rules like WP:NOADS, but maybe not being aware of the leading role played by HSA in promoting person centred approaches in the UK and internationally. I've posted a link to a different HSA page; the reading room, as the purpose of the 'external links' section is to lead people to informative places where they can learn more about the topic, and the HSA reading room does this very well. Riversider (talk) 13:08, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sept 2011 

message: This is my first time editing a wiki page so please forgive my ignorance.  I made a minor edit changing the name of NY State's disabilities oversight body.  I provided a link but I don't know how to make it a number reference instead of the acronym that I used instead.  Additionally, the information in that paragraph is not entirely accurate (nor is it sourced).  I don't know who entered this information and I don't want to step on anyone's toes.  There really is no "mandate" for planning to be person-centered.  The spirit of regulations encourage person-centeredness but it is seriously lacking.  In keeping with WP rules, I don't really know a way to source this information, other than first-hand experience.  I am willing to take any guidance in doing this, as I am willing to do the work.  Also, I will be changing the word "consumer" as it is now an anachronistic word.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dark Billibong (talk • contribs) 18:55, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Dark Billibong the motto of WP is 'be bold'. This means you could edit the information you know to be wrong, and you will be doing the world a favour by doing so! Alternatively you could write the changes you intend to make on the talk page, to see if anyone objects there, and if nobody objects within a reasonable length of time, take those changes to the substantive article. It helps if your edits are based on published material written by reliable sources, particularly by those seen as experts in the field. Replacing unsourced material with well sourced and referenced material is always an improvement to the credibility of an article. Riversider (talk) 14:49, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits to Limitations Section 

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I have just modified 7 external links on Person-centred planning. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.valuingpeoplenow.dh.gov.uk/valuing-people-now/personalising
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071213080928/http://www.csrpcp.net/default.aspx?page=16600 to http://www.csrpcp.net/default.aspx?page=16600
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120402185509/http://www.helensandersonassociates.co.uk/media/51351/16-one%20page%20profiles%20resource.pdf to http://www.helensandersonassociates.co.uk/media/51351/16-one%20page%20profiles%20resource.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060309172858/http://thechp.syr.edu/rsapub.htm to http://thechp.syr.edu/rsapub.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060220034608/http://circlesnetwork.org.uk/what_is_person_centred_planning.htm to http://www.circlesnetwork.org.uk/what_is_person_centred_planning.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)