Talk:J. B. Gunn

message: This article is terribly thin. I have done minimal patching to allow sourcing in mention of Gunn in notables on page about Malvern. I knew him personally as another Senior Government Research Fellow -- I think he may have joined shortly after me. Printed evidence that he was at RRE can be found by a Web of Science search which retrieves several papers in Proceedings of Physical Society in which RRE is given as his affiliation. I just copied catch words and phrases from titles of his papers. No time to look for links to Wikipedia pages. He deserves a lot better. Hope this is not polemical. Will try to find article about him next week and contact mutual acquaintances closer to his work to extend the page. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 16:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Thin

message: He was born in Cairo, Egypt, but had a British (not Egyptian) birth certificate.  He never had any Egyptian documentation, and never considered himself Egyptian.  He left Egypt, with his parents, at age 2 and never returned.
Do you really want to categorize him as "Egyptian"?
Jpg1954 (talk) 15:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: After checking with the Egypt project, I've removed the WikiProject Egypt banner. I don't think anyone really considers him Egyptian. GyroMagician (talk) 22:43, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criteria for being considered "Egyptian"? 

message: Minimal changes made Michael P. Barnett (talk) 18:00, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Corrections

message: Is there any way to get the heading changed from "John Battiscombe Gunn" to "J.B. Gunn".
After the age of 5, he was NEVER called "John"  He was always known personally  as "Ian" or "Iain", and professionally as "J.B. Gunn".  No one outside the immediate family was allowed to know what the "B" stood for.
Both his aunt(professional name/Wiki listing "Wendy Wood", real name "Gwendoline Emily Meacham") and his half brother  (professional name/Wiki listing "Spike Hughes", real name "Patrick  Cairns Hughes") have their Wikipedia listings under their professional rather than their legal names, so there is clearly a precedent. Jpg1954 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 21:23, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is probably a wiki-policy about this somewhere (I'll look later), but the basic mechanism is a page move. If you propose it, I'll support. GyroMagician (talk) 22:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

text: I think what you propose fits in with Wikipedia's Wikipedia:Article_titles#Common_names Common names principle for article naming, so we're good there. Details on page moving can be found at WP:MOVE. I've done it a couple of times - it's not difficult, but there seemed to be a lot of steps to do things in the right order (to preserve the edit history and talk page, if I remember correctly). Do you want to have a go, or would you prefer me to do it? GyroMagician (talk) 10:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main Heading should be "J.B. Gunn" 

message: I found the reference for the IEEE Spectrum article about the initial discovery of the Gunn effect, based on "noisy" experimental results in Gallium arsenide, and updated the text accordingly. But that makes the reference immediately after the Hilsum link not right- it simply points to the original paper.  In reality he was initially quite sure that it was NOT related to Hilsum's work, and was quite embarrased when "someone from Bell Labs" showed the theoretical basis.  But I do not have the appropriate reference for that work.  I'll try to find the full text of the Spectrum article, which may include the Bell labs reference.  Jpg1954 (talk) 16:18, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Noise,  Cyril Hilsum, Bell Labs 

message: I emailed Trinity last night. 
Herewith reply from Lynne Isaacs, Publications & Database Co-ordinator  lei20@cam.ac.uk
"Thank you for your email.  I have checked our records and can confirm the
following details in relation to John Battiscombe Gunn's time at Trinity:
Matriculated in 1945 (Nat Sciences prelim Class II in 1946, Nat Sciences
tripos Class III in 1947, Mechanical Science Class II in 1948) and graduated
with a BA in 1948. He was not awarded an MA and I am unable to find any
record of further studies in Cambridge.  I assume he must have gained a PhD
elsewhere.
I do hope this information is helpful in tidying up the Wikipedia entry.  I
shall also pass on the link to the obituary in Physics Today to our website
officer for inclusion in the obituaries section on the main College website
http://www.trin.cam.ac.uk/index.php?pageid=192."
I think he was a Senior Government Fellow. I think a Ph.D. plus 5 years research were prerequisites. Maybe exceptional research compensated for lack of Ph.D. Maybe my memory of requirements is wrong. Maybe he was not Sen Govt Fellow. I got full bibliography yesterday, but his early papers not accessible in electronic journals and could not get to hard copy of issues containing these. Don't mind if someone else does. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 20:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It used to be much more common than it is now for working scientists not to have PhDs, and I don't think it would have been a prerequisite for Gunn to be a Senior Govt Fellow. I'm sure he could have gained one quite easily, but unless he said something specific about not wanting one, we don't need to add anything. Many scientists at Malvern didn't have PhDs and never felt the need to have one.GyroMagician (talk) 08:28, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: email from Trinity 

message: "Gunn remained at Yorktown until his retirement in 1990" isn't quite correct.
He remained with IBM, but he spent a couple of years at Company Headquarters in Armonk, NY on the Corporate Technology Committee (mid 70s), and a couple of years at the labs in San Jose CA working on Disk drives (mid 80s). 
Not sure how to word it since I do not remember the specific years.
Jpg1954 (talk) 19:13, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "remained at Yorktown"  isn't quite correct 

message: 1. New heading and opening statement optimal. My quibble about "discovered phenomenon ..." was wrong -- present wording is accepted usage, as in Rudolf Mössbauer -- "he discovered the Mossbauer effect" and so on.
   OK Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "He was an undergraduate at Trinity College, Cambridge from 1945 to 1948, studied physics, and graduated with a B.A, but did not take an M.A."Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds fine to me.  Jpg1954 (talk) 04:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

text: I agree he is there. Yesterday, I used the pdf search. It did not find him. Today, I scrolled and found him. When I cut and paste his name into the search key box, it appeared as Gunk !!! Seems to be an Adobe glitch. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Probably an OCR problem.   Elsewhere I found "IBM" turned into "IRM"  Jpg1954 (talk) 04:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

text: From Patent#Ownership I think "the patent Electrical field responsive solid state devices was granted to Gunn as inventor and IBM as assignee." is safe. But just saw later comment from GyroMagician and agree with him. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

text: Google search using "Ridley Watkins Hilsum" gave links to WP without hyphen, not surprisingly, then a slew of links to IEEE papers with hyphen. I will put it in. Also will de-orphanize it.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

text: I will do this in due course.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

text: I put in the bibliography from the Kroemer paper, and I will put in applications listed in U. Linz article -- most  or all have links to other WP articles. I have hopes of getting expert review.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Great Jpg1954 (talk) 04:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

text: From the blurb I think it reasonable to assume Holgate covers the topic. I emailed customer service at Taylor & Francis this morning to make sure, and will put it in tentatively.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

text: If it is not copyrighted (and I assume it is not, if U.Linz displays it) would copying it into the article be difficult?Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  The one in the Linz article- which is just part of the page- can be copied and pasted by itself, so presumably could be uploaded to Wikipedia. No idea how to tell if it is copyrighted.
 The one in the Spectum article is the whole page (and has a name ".Andy Schenk", presumably the photographer), and I can't seem to copy it independantly of the rest of the page.  I expect that one IS copyrighted.  Jpg1954 (talk) 04:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

text: Michael, did you try to make an edit before posting these comments? If so, it didn't take for some reason - you don't show up in the edit history (History tab at the top of the article page) since Dec 12th. GyroMagician (talk) 14:04, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Converging rapidly

message: I just started to edit the actual article, and could not see the changes that I expected, such as page number in UBC calendar. So I will hold off making changes described above to the article, until you give me go ahead that all the changes you have described are in place Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:34, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Being cautious

message: Had too many windows open. Was looking at wrong one. Will proceed Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:42, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Reassured

message: 1. Just packed following into form to contact Chynoweth: "Dear Alan, The sentence "Alan Chynoweth ..." about your 1965 talk on Gunn effect mentioned in Voelcker's 1989 paper is in current Wikipedia "J. B. Gunn" entry I'm helping revise. We need your input. Hope you have time to look. Michael"  Hope it gets through.
2. I like the note about the MA. But it would be even more acceptable to the girls if it ended "was automatic for men, at the time". I hope my reason for asking is easily deducible. Would ensure continued backup. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 12:08, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm glad you like it. Yes, your reasons are clear - but I want to avoid putting in too much detail, in what is intended to be a brief note. I was thinking more of our international readership, who will likely never have heard of some of the peculiarities of Oxbridge. Surprisingly, I didn't find mention of women's rights on the linked MA page, where such a note surely belongs. GyroMagician (talk) 12:28, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  You should definitely put something on the Oxbridge MA page.  But I must say I find it odd to refer to female undergrads/grads, as a group, as "girls".  As an individual- I would say "I knew a girl at University who did such and such".  But as a group, I would call then "women". Jpg1954 (talk) 18:33, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Update Dec 20

message: I added the reference to APL Virus functions (taken from the computer virus page.
But I am not sure how to add the regenerative braking ref.
It is section IX of an internal IBM document, titled  "Report to the Director of Research by the Energy Task Force ("ETF") January 31, 1974.  It was once IBM Confidential, but is now clearly makred- on every page "No longer IBM Confidential".
The title of Section 9 is "Energy Conserving and Computer Dependent Private Car (with Outline and Notes on Possible Developments in Energy Conservation and Computer Control for Private Cars.  The authors of section 9 are J. Cocke, "J.B. Ian Gunn", and R.A Toupin.
It isn't JUST about regenerative braking, but includes lots of other concepts,  including a high pressure hydraulic system as a way of storing energy, and number of things that are now quite common practice.  Anyway, how do I reference it?  
Jpg1954 (talk) 04:00, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think answer to a question I asked in another connection covers it -- will look tomorrow.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 04:39, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  More references 

message: I made a start expanding it. Ragged, but there is a tomorrow. Michael P. Barnett (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 04:37, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: RRE page

message: User:Michael P. Barnett/Gunn research shows suggested restructuring. Mentioning once confidential now not is not necessary. Nice to have a publisher for Grim's writing. But I think we can proceed without it, and look for it later Michael P. Barnett (talk) 18:48, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment on Jpg1954 question about referencing

message: parking it here until I have a chance to put it in the article
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=05215467
"This paper appears in: Spectrum, IEEE 
Issue Date: Dec. 1968 
Volume: 5 Issue: 12 
On page(s): 12 - 21 
ISSN: 0018-9235 
Digital Object Identifier: 10.1109/MSPEC.1968.5215467" 
"E. C. Starr, E. W. Allen, Jr., and J. B. Gunn
are the winners of three IEEE Field Awards"
"and John B. Gunn (F) will receive the Morris N. Liebmann Memorial Prize Award "for contributions to solid-state microwave power generation." Jpg1954 (talk) 16:50, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  better ref for IEEE Liebmann Memorial Prize Award 

message: I wasted considerable time on the Royal Radar Establishment article, because an Administrator wanted verifiable notability in WP sense of people described as "eminent" in RA obit. Wrote accordingly on Royal Radar Establishment Discussion page and User:John of Reading Talk page. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:09, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Waste of time

message: What sort of pictures would it make sense to add?
Won't have a chance to do anything about it until afte Xmas
Early life - 
:Iain and Jack with sled at Glen Riddle
:Family portrait with Iain, Jack, Meena, Pat(Spike), Meena's parents and a couple of cousins
Research career
:Picture (with his family,including dog, and with Peter Graystone's family) immediately before leaving Malvern for Vancouver (a copy appears in a newspaper clipping dated Sept '56, which does not indicate the name of the newspaper, but the  original photo does not say anything about copyright)
:Pictures from IBM in the lab in the '60s (individual/close up as opposed to the group photo currently on the article)
Motorcycle racing
:Pictures from the 50s in UK
:Pictures from the 60s - '90s in US
:Picture with dog
Jpg1954 (talk) 19:06, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: Closure would be nice, but WP principle seems to leave matters open to perpetuity. However, we could aim for a plateau. If there is agreement on the restructuring in my User page, should I move it over (by cut and paste, not WP move). Re pictures. Can we get permission for the IEEE obit picture of Ian with dog so we can mention he was a dog lover or dog person or whatever. If my memory serves me ok on this, it was his dog that introduced him to me, and but for that dog, this project might never have come to pass. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 20:46, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Getting to a plateau

message: I found some more references.  I have updated the latter part of his career, based on the IBM Research article.  
I have also found an interview  (IEEE Student Journal May 1969)in which he described his undergraduate work as "I took two years of the natural sciences - physics, chemistry, mathematics and so on. In the last year I was able to switch to electronic engineering, which was something that was just started at Cambridge at that time."
Not sure how to reconcile that with your email from Trinity which refers to mechanical science.
Jpg1954 (talk) 03:46, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  More info 

message: 1. Reconciliation "electronic engineering" and "Mechanical Science" easy. Phrases in which first letters are lower case are informal descriptors. Phrases in which first letters are capital are formal University categorizations. Quite possible Cambridge put electronic engineering in Mechanical Science. So how about "Official records show that Gunn studied ... (in the terminology Cambridge used for its curricula)Alumna records of Trinity College, Cambridge for 1946 to 1948 and, as he put it informally ... .IEEE Student Journal May 1969".  
I think it entirely reasonable to provide this detail, because it could help clarify comparable situations for other people (in my own case, my Ph.D. came before the Board of Chemical Studies because, as a graduate of the University of London, my higher degree had to come before the Board of Studies responsible for my first degree. Had I got my B.Sc. anywhere else, I could have picked the board to which I submitted my Ph.D., chosen Applied Mathematics, and not had to spend three months on a hydrogen fluoride calculation that let me mention a specific chemical by name (which the Chairman told me was advisable).
2. I think we cannot use letter from R.A. now, but am looking into online archives which might take material like it, making it WP verifiable.
3. Don't want to be a pest, but the following rewording of the note is literally correct, without drawing attention to the restriction to men at that time.
"This was somewhat unusual, because his BA degree from Cambridge made him automatically eligible for a Cambridge MA, too."
The Girton College website mentions the early restriction and its removal and refers, for coverage of the topic, to: University Politics, by Gordon Johnson, Cambridge University Press, 1994. I should have a page reference by early next week.
The present statement is literally correct, today, but was not at the time Gunn graduated. The question crops up again in the Rosalind Franklin article, and even the article University of Cambridge does not explain the nuances completely.
$. My highly prejudiced view is the more "verifiable" dog data the better -- but I think that limits us to "was a dog lover (see picture)" and see if anyone starts complaining that is OR, interpreting the picture rather than referring to it.
Michael P. Barnett (talk) 01:43, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Details 1/6/11 

message: Added ref for the article about his 375 MM in Cavallino 180. Jpg1954 (talk) 03:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  375MM 

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thread_title:  External links modified