Talk:Polish population transfers (1944–1946)

message: There is much to translate from pl wiki. The current article concentrates on Poles in Ukrainian SSR; we need to add on Belarusian and Lithuanian SSRs.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  22:07, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the events have to be viewed in the context together with the repatriation of the Ukrainians in the opposite direction. So, the article should be something like the Soviet-Polish population transfers (1944-1946). Also, the Wisla action is relevant enough to discuss the relevance in the text body rather than "see also" section. Also, please do not use the article as a coatrack to insert judgmental and opinionated statements. "Soviets killed", "Soviets deported" are facts and have to be given. "Soviets instituted the regime of terror" is a judgment. This is not a newspaper article to use such judgmental statements. --Irpen 22:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I remarked to Bandurist, :pl:Wysiedlenie Ukraińców z RP do ZSRR 1944-1946 should be translated too. And it is me who has added see also Operation Wisła. But please stop denying the existence of Soviet terror.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  22:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Expand

message: An opinion? The whole human historiography is an opinion and 90% of it is less proved than the existence of Soviet terror. 
What is wrong with the quoted sentence? Certainly the Soviets, certainly instituted, certainly the regime of terror. Xx236 (talk) 10:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviets instituted the regime of terror 

message: Such title says that the Polish were partners for the Soviet. It was a Soviet-Soviet population transfer, including thousands of prisoners - ethnic Poles - transported to Siberia. Xx236 (talk) 10:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet-Polish population transfers (1944-1946) 

message: We don't use Nazi lawnguage any more (we use the Kristallnacht name to be precise). Why are Soviet lies repeated 55 years after Stalin's death? Xx236 (talk) 10:21, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source that repatriation is a propaganda word? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  15:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repatriation is a Soviet propaganda word 

message: Why the same processes are described differently? Xx236 (talk) 09:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see Talk:Repatriation of Poles#Move proposal for a wider discussion. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  15:14, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Either ''Expulsion of Poles'' or ''Repatriation of Germans'' 

message: What about other arrestations and  executions?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xx236 (talk • contribs) 15:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  January 1945 the NKVD arrested 772 Poles in Lviv 

message: I have several problems with the way this article looks now. First of all, I believe it is too Ukraine-oriented. Sure, the largest group of deportees came from what became Ukrainian SSR, but Lithuania and Belarus are equally important. Another problem is the title, and I don't mean only the "Polish Population" thingie. I think we should consider something similar to the article on Expulsion of Germans after World War II. Otherwise we'd have to rescope this article and rewrite it completely. Currently it doesn't include info on over 1 million Polish refugees from Western Europe, close to 2 million DPs in Germany, internal migrations and so on. And, sincerely, I believe that's the way it should be, it should be focused specifically on expulsion of Poles from USSR, and not on population transfers. 
Anyway, I rewrote the header and sourced it just in case. It's still not perfect, we should state more specifically the scope of this article I believe. Any ideas? //Halibutt 15:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and one more thing. I believe there's no point in expanding the "Background" section beyond 20th century. Sure, there were conflicts in 11th century too, but they weren't directly related to what Stalin devised in 1944. //Halibutt 15:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit, expansion, focus 

message: The article discusses only transfers from the SU. What about Germany, Great Britain, France and many others?Xx236 (talk) 13:29, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please expand the article with this interesting information. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:42, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong title 

message: It's the same area under two names.Xx236 (talk) 09:15, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  of Kresy as well as the Polish areas annexed by the Soviet Union 

message: The conflict was social, betwen "Ukrainian" aristocrats like Wisniowiecki and Cossacs. Many ethnic Poles emigrated and accepted local culture, joined the Cossacs. Xx236 (talk) 13:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflict between two ethnicities? 

message: People born in Eastern Poland weren't "repatriated" but expelled.Xx236 (talk) 10:52, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, everything that happened regarding all population movements, with perhaps the exception of the Romanian-Bulgarian and Slovak-Hungarian 'exchanges' is the textbook definition of ethnic cleansing with numerous regional instances of genocide, and indeed constituted the largest population movement, voluntary or involuntary, in human history. Prussia1231 (talk) 21:09, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not "repatriated" 

message: How large percentage of the population in the Kresy was Polish before they were expelled?--Oddeivind (talk) 18:47, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kresy 

message: Compare Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_%281944%E2%80%9350%29#Status_in_international_law Xx236 (talk) 12:37, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Law 

message: :"The XII congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union proposed the deportation of Poles from western Ukraine to the Eastern regions of the USSR to add to the 58,000 Poles who were already living in Siberia following the partitions. A list of 8,352 families marked for deportation was prepared."
Something is screwed up here. XIIth congress could not have possibly discussed deportation of Poles from Western Ukraine, since Western Ukraine was in Poland then. I thought it was a typo (XII vs. XVII), but "XVIIth" has the same problem.  Needs verification Staszek Lem (talk) 21:56, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: * The 12 Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union was held in April 1923 for 8 days at Moscow. Perhaps some other meeting took place about the Poles ... but not from the Western Ukraine obviously, only from the Eastern Ukraine. I don't know who put it in and why, but if the proposal was real, it must have been submitted after the 1921 Treaty of Riga. The 1935 deportations however, were insignificant in comparison to the 1937 Genocide of Poles in the Soviet Union which is missing from the background altogether. This is unacceptable. Poeticbent talk 05:35, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Piece removed from "Background"  

message: :Opinion Border irrelevant is unsourced. 
:The transfers removed people from Eastern Poland before the new border was legally accepted by Soviet puppets, on the basis of Teheran and Yalta conspiracy. It's relevant. When a family moves from ane flat to another one legal basis of such move is relevant, why not when more than one million moves?Xx236 (talk) 07:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The leaglity of the transfers should be described like the legality of the expulsion of Germans is. Xx236 (talk) 07:23, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This your original research whether it is legality or not. Please provide reverence that borders make it illegal. Of course, the legality or "legality" by Soviet rules will be encyclopedic here, but we need sources. - üser:Altenmann >t 16:31, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Border irrelevant 

message: Ludmiła Leszczyńska was nominated to be the author of  Gawryszewski's book. Xx236 (talk) 07:37, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ludmiła Leszczyńska 

message: The Background is biased, poorly sourced and sometimes misinforms. The first author Bandurist was banned. The subject is Poles in Ukraine, the history of GDL should be added. Many Jews also run away to Poland, some of them continued their trips to Israel, USA or Western Europe.
=== Polish Prometheism ===
I have removed from the Background the story about bad Poles. Almost any group in Soviet Union was persecuted, there was no connection betwen real anti_Soviet activities and the persecutions. The  alleged crime was POW membership (Polish Military Organistion which existed before the revolution).Xx236 (talk) 11:38, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It could have been an estimate. Was there a source cited and does it say? Wikipedia may cite estimates, not only censuses. - üser:Altenmann >t 16:36, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Background

message: I have removed from the Background the story about bad Poles. Almost any group in Soviet Union was persecuted, there was no connection betwen real anti_Soviet activities and the persecutions. The  alleged crime was POW membership (Polish Military Organistion which existed before the revolution).Xx236 (talk) 11:38, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polish Prometheism 

message: Cherrypicking. Andrew Bobola was tortured and murdered, so the expansion wasn't simple.Xx236 (talk) 11:43, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The expansion of Catholicism 

message: Wow, who counted them in 1944? Were they asked if they were Polish or  UPA/NKVD nominated them?Xx236 (talk) 11:52, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It could have been an estimate. Was there a source cited and does it say? Wikipedia may cite estimates, not only censuses. - üser:Altenmann >t 16:36, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: By 1944, the population of ethnic Poles in Western Ukraine was 1,182,100

message: Here's what the caption says: The Curzon Line and territorial changes of Poland, 1939 to 1945. The pink and yellow areas represent the pre-war Polish territory (Kresy) and pre-war German territory (Recovered Territories), respectively. The pink area is Kresy yellow area is pre-war German territory. Wouldn't it be better to say: The pink Kresy and white areas represents pre-war Polish territory, the yellow area pre-war German territory. Raquel Baranow (talk) 05:16, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caption is hard to understand 

message: The number was lower, 12-13 million, not all of them expelled, many of them run away and didn't want to return.Xx236 (talk) 07:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The text was introduced in April, without any discussion. A number of references were removed and controversial ones introduced.Xx236 (talk) 07:32, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This number is cited to a Reliable Source; it is not controversial just because an editor does not like it. Parkwells (talk) 18:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you cite the number? This page is about Poles. Why don't you edit pages about Germans Demographic estimates of the flight and expulsion of Germans? Xx236 (talk) 09:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

text: dwarfed - it's not a beauty pageant. This page is specifically about Polish people. If you want a synthesis, edit a synthesis. This is not the synthesis. Xx236 (talk) 09:27, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Please read your source. It says 12 million. You can't select one of two statements in one source, becasue you like 15 more than 12. Xx236 (talk) 09:48, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Name the Nazis who wanted to stay in Poland to be hanged. They preferred to become respected German citizens. Xx236 (talk) 09:49, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  an estimated 15 million ethnic Germans from these areas 

message: What a deceitful propaganda is written here ("Soviet Soldiers get changed in to the uniform of banderites"), authored by ukrainian Volodymyr Serhijchuk, who is an apologist of crimes of ukrainian nationalists against jews and poles, and is a typical representative of historical negationism with regard to the crimes of ukrainians. Maybe banderites did nothing wrong at all? And all their known crimes were "actually" committed by their insidious enemies, who had a habit of "changing in to the uniforms of the bandits"? Maybe the massacre of Volyn was also committed by disguised soviets but not banderites? very convenient point of view, no doubt. 
And what about the alleged author of these lines about disguised soviets, Stefania Kubrynowycz of Rokotyniv, does she even exist? There are big doubts in this regard, as Serhijchuk never shied away from forgery in his "research" in order to whitewash the ukrainian history. And where is Rokotyniv located? Google doesn't know this place, all the requests about "Rokotyniv" lead to the text of this article only, referring to the works of Serhijchuk.
And there is no hate. It is also a lie that makes this text a propaganda. And it is notable that this propaganda was written by one ukrainian "historian", and quoted here by another. It's very typical.94.181.218.44 (talk) 12:43, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stefania Kubrynowycz of Rokotyniv