Talk:Baal

message: It has been suggested (on my talk page, rather than here, I do not know why) that
:Glad you finally went to the talk page there. Kindly keep it there since you're about to bang up against  and I'm sure you're well-meaning: it just seems like you just haven't read through the DDD article and are misunderstanding the article's . Hadad deals with Hadad; Baal has always been about the general term, in reference to Hadad, to Yahweh, and to other local gods. If you'd like to change that scope, I understand the idea but think it's a mistake since it would involve  it with the Hadad article and I don't think the scholarship is really settled on that point. Anyway, let's talk about it over there and, if you don't like my take on it, present your thoughts and let's do a  or something to get some more opinions.  Also see this from a recent reversion.  Undid revision 678739348 by Johnmcintyre1959 (talk) This article is not about a single god Ba'al. Read its history and reread the article
My italics.
This reveals a fundamental misunderstanding about the scope pf this article. I am not claiming that this article should only be about the multilple references to a single God known as Baal, or to multiple local Baals.  However lets look at the history, as invited.
Here is the present lede.
:Baal (/ˈbeɪəl/),[1][n 1] properly Baʿal (Ugaritic: 𐎁𐎓𐎍;[5] Phoenician: 𐤋𐤏𐤁; Biblical Hebrew: בעל, pronounced [ˈbaʕal]),[6] was a title and honorific meaning "lord" in the Northwest Semitic languages spoken in the Levant during antiquity. From its use among people, it came to be applied to gods. Scholars previously associated the theonym with solar cults and with a variety of unrelated patron deities, but inscriptions have shown that the name Baʿal was particularly associated with the storm and fertility god Hadad and his local manifestations.[7] The Hebrew Scriptures, compiled and curated over a span of centuries, include early use of the term in reference to their God Yahweh, generic use in reference to various Levantine deities, and finally pointed application towards Hadad, who was decried as a false god. This use was taken over into Christianity and Islam, sometimes under the opprobrious form Beelzebub.
Here it is with my change.
:Baal' (),Oxford English Dictionary (1885), "Baal, n." properly Baʿal (; ; , ), was a god worshiped in many ancient Middle Eastern communities, especially among the Canaanites, who considered him a fertility deity and one of the most important of the gods.
Followed by the above.
Now this version of the lede is from 21 May 2012 !!!!!
:Baʿal (Biblical Hebrew בעל, pronounced [ˈbaʕal], usually spelled Baal in English) is a Northwest Semitic title and honorific meaning "master" or "lord"[1] that is used for various gods who were patrons of cities in the Levant and Asia Minor, cognate to Akkadian Bēlu. A Baalist or Baalite means a worshipper of Baal.
:"Baʿal" can refer to any god and even to human officials; in some texts it is used as a substitute for Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heaven. Since only priests were allowed to utter his divine name, Hadad, Ba‛al was commonly used. Nevertheless, few if any Biblical uses of "Baʿal" refer to Hadad, the lord over the assembly of gods on the holy mount of Heaven, but rather refer to any number of local spirit-deities worshipped as cult images, each called baʿal and regarded in the Hebrew Bible in that context as a "false god".
Note that it also contains the sub section  Baʿal as a divine title in Israel and Judah
This article has for a long time been about Baal as a God or Gods.  The use of the article to discuss the meaning of the word lord, master, etc is not the primary purpose of the article.
I am not changing the article, I am restoring it to what has always been its primary purpose.Johnmcintyre1959 (talk) 17:16, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I really don't know what to say to you if you think that "Baal... is a Northwest Semitic title and honorific meaning "master" or "lord"" [the scope which has actually been upheld by myself and other editors] being turned into "Baal was a god" isn't a scope change. It's so obviously incorrect that there's really nothing more to say except for you're up against your  and should refrain from editing this page until you've gathered support for your changes on the talk page. This article has started the way it has and focused the way it has since the very first copy-and-paste from the Britannica in 2002. I'm not even saying that's the best way to handle it: it's just how it's always been. As I told you on your talk page [because it was an issue for you rather than the page itself], I suggest launching a  and getting some other voices involved so you don't feel you're being stymied by a single other editor and can make some peace with the magnitude of your error and/or build a consensus to change the article to reflect the  you think it should have instead of the one it always has. — LlywelynII 00:19, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I really don't know what to say to you if you think that a single sentence from a cut and paste from Britannica justifies your claim that this article is only about Baal as a term for lord or master.  The original article refers to the God Baal, and to the various Baals known by their local names.  The article overwhelming supports this longstanding text which I wish to restore so that we can get back to the original purpose of the article.
Baʿal (Biblical Hebrew בעל, pronounced [ˈbaʕal], usually spelled Baal in English) is a Northwest Semitic title and honorific meaning "master" or "lord"[1] that is used for various gods who were patrons of cities in the Levant and Asia Minor, cognate to Akkadian Bēlu. A Baalist or Baalite means a worshipper of Baal.
"Baʿal" can refer to any god and even to human officials; in some texts it is used as a substitute for Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heaven. Since only priests were allowed to utter his divine name, Hadad, Ba‛al was commonly used. Nevertheless, few if any Biblical uses of "Baʿal" refer to Hadad, the lord over the assembly of gods on the holy mount of Heaven, but rather refer to any number of local spirit-deities worshipped as cult images, each called baʿal and regarded in the Hebrew Bible in that context as a "false god".
How you can claim that it is a scope change to say that Baal is a God is beyond me.  The article has always said that Baal is both a title meaning lord etc, and a God/Gods.  Will you accept that something close to this text above be restored to the lede, or shall we take it to dispute?Johnmcintyre1959 (talk) 21:34, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

text: Whilst the article may have started with a cut and paste from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, the current EB article on Baal makes it very clear as to the current scope and meaning of the word.  Baal, god worshiped in many ancient Middle Eastern communities, especially among the Canaanites, who apparently considered him a fertility deity and one of the most important gods in the pantheon. As a Semitic common noun baal (Hebrew baʿal) meant “owner” or “lord,” although it could be used more generally; for example, a baal of wings was a winged creature, and, in the plural, baalim of arrows indicated archers  My bold.  If we want to restrict ourselves then we could change the title to more meaningfully reflect the limited relevance of the article to what is now understood to be the meaning of the word Baal.Johnmcintyre1959 (talk) 20:04, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope of the article 

message: This page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bel_(mythology)
does not show up as a Wikipedia link in the "See Also" section for "Bel and Temple of Bel." 
The words "Temple of Bel" in that section do link properly, but the first word "Bel" is obviously supposed to show up and link to the Wikipedia entry "Bel (mythology)." But it doesn't and I can't figure out why not. 
Can somebody fix this?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.225.181.137 (talk) 05:28, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something wrong with the link to Bel 

message: In it’s latest drop advertisement balenciaga on purpose spelled baalenciaga on a piece of merch which in latin translates into baal is king. 41.200.129.199 (talk) 00:13, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: incorrect. That is gibberish - Baal is king would be Baal est rex. Don't trust google translate on its face 136.53.80.94 (talk) 23:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baalenciaga ad