Talk:Cubit

message: The intro needs to be rewritten. For the moment it states that - in cm - 6 palms is larger than 7 palms. The inches and feet are most likely off too.
:in its current form, the introductory mention of the Egyptian cubit states that it is longer than a normal forearm. The following statement about the "natural cubit" is hopelessly garbled, please see my comment below at "Hmnh?" where I suggest a tentative rephrasing. Foxpoet (talk) 02:56, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro 

message: "cubits of 8 palms, ~60 cm or 24 inches, like cubits of 9 palms, ~67.5 cm or 27 inches. From the late Antiquity a Roman 16-palms-cubit (ulna ~1.20 cm) is as well attested"
Is this supposed to be 1.2 meters? Kernow 15:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  16-palms-cubit = 1.2 cm ? 

message: When the Bible makes references to distances in cubits (particularly in Revelation), which version of the cubit is it referring? --Malebolge LX 17:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody knows.  Presumably it's the fingertip-to-elbow cubit, but it might be a wrist-to-elbow cubit, or even a fingertip-to-opposite-elbow cubit. --Carnildo 19:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Bible Cubit? 

message: I've removed:
:"The ark was measured as 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high. Using an 18-inch cubit, as noted at the start of the article, this would make the ark about 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high, these shipbuilding dimensions were reached in the 19th Century (when the Great Eastern was built)."
Primarily because it was just tacked on to the bottom of a section and really needed to be put somewhere else.  However, I have a few problems with it. 
* "Using an 18-inch cubit" is OR.  I'd like to see a reference to an expert speculating on the lenght rather than a guess (X says the most likely lenght of a cubit used in Genesis was ... making the ark...).  If we can't find a reference I'd prefer to see "The ark was measured as 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high, however which lenght of cubit was used it unknown."
* And the whole shipbuilding sentence seems contextually unsound.  Maybe "these shipbuilding dimensions were not reached until the 19th Century (when the Great Eastern was built)." if that's what it's trying to say.
Duggy 1138 (talk) 05:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Ark 

message: The measure, cubit, can be found looking at the volume of the Bronze Sea (1Kings 7:23-26).
The number of cubits3 can be determined from the wall taper and the volume of baths given.
Taken beyond significant digits, I find 19.269516 inches to be a cubit, which is elbow to tip of middle finger.
Check the calculations and references here.  --No938 (talk) 14:05, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, the link you gave is no longer valid, and the site is no longer there. Can you give another link? Thanks! Misty MH (talk) 15:40, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biblical Cubit 

message: * The Thai sok (ศอก elbow) is 24 nieu ().  Upon metrification, they defined the sok as exactly 0.5 metres (1.043 Roman cubits.) 
**I have no idea as to its antiquity, but the usage can be verified at Wa (unit). --Pawyilee (talk) 20:27, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thai cubit 

message: (This is by the user Cartref) The quantum cubit is a unit of a quantum brain. To understand this, let's go to binary.
Binary is a system of 1s and 0s. In computers, binary switches are used as 'gateways' to put different bits of information on different tracks of the computer. The 'gateways' are called bits. BUT, with a quantum computer, because quantum means 'in two places at once', a quantum bit (called a cubit) can be 1 and 0 at the same time! This means, if the bits travel in clumps, to process fast (in a normal computer, this would clog up the system), then in a literal instant, they would be sorted! So, a computer of 32 quantum cubits would be much, much faster than a normal computer the size of a large garden pond!
Cartref: Please refer to the term Qubit, with a "Q." It is a portmanteau of "quantum" and "bit," completely unrelated linguistically to the old unit of measure. Foxpoet (talk) 02:45, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quantum Cubit 

message: This article seems to have a lot of unreferenced material. It's been tagged since April as needing inline citations. Unless anyone objects, I plan to start removing unreferenced stuff in the next couple of days, adding it here for reference and discussion. Then, once each bit is properly sourced, it can go back into the article. Does that make sense? Oh, will anyone mind if I switch the references to list-defined at the same time? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 01:03, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: So, I have gone ahead and done that. The totally unreferenced material that I have removed is behind the pleasantly coloured green bar. I suggest that as bits are sourced and added back into the article, they are struck through here so that it's obvious what is left. I couldn't think of a better way of doing this. Leaving it in the article was not an option IMO. I mean, just to take one example, "the Mesopotamian cubit measured ...  Roman cubit". But how did those clever Mesopotamians know what the length of the Roman cubit would be a couple of thousand years after they were dead?Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 01:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wow that was a lot of information removed. I'd love to see references for some of it. Since it appears to be similar in formatting, I am guessing the same person added a lot of that. Can you contact the person, and show them this, so that they can add a reference for where they got all that information? It seems like it wasn't just "made up", and it's quite specific. Maybe they just forgot, or didn't know how to add a reference. I know that I've struggled with the latter, time and again, and citations differ from article to article, and even within a single article. Contact them, please? Thanks. Misty MH (talk) 15:59, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

text:  I'd love to see a source/citation for this: "From late Antiquity, the Roman ulna, a four-foot cubit (about 120 cm) is also attested. This length is the measure from a man's hip to the fingers of the outstretched opposite arm." A 4' cubit would make an impressive ship/barge indeed, larger than most known ships since! (4-foot cubit!) Misty MH (talk) 11:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreferenced material 

message: Based on the body and agricultural systems of measures of Mesopotamia and Egypt
The Greek root of stadios means to stand or have standing, 
to establish a standard.
The problem was that there were several different standards.
* In Mesopotamia there was the sos = 180 m 
* In Egypt the khet was 100 royal cubits 
* In Egypt 210 khet were an itrw or hour of travel on the river
* In Egypt 300 Royal cubits were the stadia of Eratosthenes = 157.5 m
* 700 to a degree at Alexandria, 
* In Egypt 350 Royal cubits were a Minute of March = 183.75 m
* In Egypt 60 Minutes of March were an atur or Hour of March
* In Persia there were stadia of 700 feet = 222 m 
* 500 to a degree on the equator or  
* This was the geographic stadia of Marianus of Tyre and Ptolomy
* In Attic Greece a Milos was 8 Stadions of 600 pous = 185 m
* 600 to a degree of 111 km
* In Attic Greece a Milos was 8 Stadions of 600 pous = 185 m
* 600 to a degree of 111 km
* In Ionic Greece a Milos was 8 Stadions of 625 pous = 185 m
* 600 to a degree to a degree of 111 km
* In Rome a Milliare of 8 Stadiums of 625 pes = 185 m
* 600 to a degree to a degree of 111 km
* In England a Myle of 8 Furlongs of 625 fote = 185 m
* 600 to a degree to a degree of 111 km
=== Sumerian lengths ===
As a collection of city states organized like the Greeks by gene, oinkos and phratre the Sumerians had a plethora of multiple standards. All stated values are in precise unit fractions of a common standard. The uban gat or hand of 100 mm or 1 tenth of a meter became the side of a mina containing 60 cubic inches or shekles where 1 cubic inch was 1 pound, and 33.5 oz. One Talent was thus 60 pounds. So c 1750 BC the English System and the metric system were commensurable. Originally probably silver the mina of gold was smaller being an uban or palm of 75mm - 80 mm depending on culture, period and relative values of the metals.
Unit                                                  	Measure                                        	Definition                                                                        	Size
digit, finger                                         	                                               	                                                                                  	
šusi                                                  	little finger                                  	3/4 uban                                                                          	15 mm
shusi                                                 	ring finger                                    	5/6 uban                                                                          	16.67 mm
sheshi                                                	index finger                                   	                                                                                  	17.67  mm
uban                                                  	thumb                                          	                                                                                  	20 mm
ell                                                   	                                               	                                                                                  	
šusi ell                                              	short ell                                      	3 šusi                                                                            	45 mm
shusi ell                                             	median ell                                     	3 shusi                                                                           	50 mm
sheshi ell                                            	long ell                                       	3 sheshi                                                                          	53 mm
uban ell                                              	thumb-ell                                      	3 uban                                                                            	60 mm
                                                      	18 shusi = 15 uban                             	                                                                                  	
palm                                                  	                                               	                                                                                  	
šusi palm                                             	short palm                                     	4 šusi                                                                            	60 mm
shusi palm                                            	median palm                                    	4 shusi                                                                           	67 mm
sheshi palm                                           	long palm                                      	4 sheshi                                                                          	71 mm
uban palm                                             	thumb-palm                                     	4 uban                                                                            	80 mm
                                                      	24 shusi = 20 uban                             	                                                                                  	
hand, qat                                             	                                               	                                                                                  	
šusi qat                                              	short hand                                     	5 šusi                                                                            	75 mm
shusi qat                                             	median hand                                    	5 shusi                                                                           	84 mm
sheshi qat                                            	long hand                                      	5 sheshi                                                                          	88 mm
uban qat                                              	thumb-hand                                     	5 uban                                                                            	100 mm
                                                      	30 shusi = 25 uban                             	                                                                                  	
fist                                                  	                                               	                                                                                  	
šusi fist                                             	short fist                                     	6 šusi                                                                            	90 mm
shusi fist                                            	median fist                                    	6 shusi                                                                           	100 mm
sheshi fist                                           	long fist                                      	6 sheshi                                                                          	106 mm
uban fist                                             	thumb-fist                                     	6 uban                                                                            	120 mm
                                                      	36 shusi = 30 uban                             	                                                                                  	
span                                                  	                                               	                                                                                  	
šu-dù-a                                               	span (‘hands’ + ‘to stack’)                    	10 šusi                                                                           	150 mm
zipaþ                                                 	span                                           	10 shusi                                                                          	167 mm
zapaþ šu.bad                                          	span                                           	10 sheshi                                                                         	176 mm
zipaþ                                                 	span                                           	10 uban                                                                           	200 mm
quarter (span of outstretched thumb and little finger)	                                               	                                                                                  	
ñušur                                                 	shaftment                                      	15 šusi                                                                           	220.5 mm
šu-dù-a                                               	shaftment                                      	12 shusi                                                                          	250 mm
foot                                                  	                                               	                                                                                  	
ñušur                                                 	foot                                           	20 šusi                                                                           	300 mm
šu-dù-a                                               	foot                                           	                                                                                  	
18 shusi                                              	foot                                           	≈ 304.8 mm                                                                        	
18½ shusi                                             	≈ 308.4 mm                                     	                                                                                  	
ñiš                                                   	tool rod                                       	17 sheshi                                                                         	300 mm
ñìri                                                  	foot                                           	15 uban = 3 gat = ½ cubit                                                         	300 mm
cubit                                                 	                                               	                                                                                  	
ku                                                    	ordinary cubit                                 	30 shusi= 25 uban= 6 ordinary qat= 5 long qat                                     	500 mm
kus                                                   	cubit                                          	36 shusi = 30 uban                                                                	600 mm
kùš                                                   	‘hand’ + ‘arm’                                 	                                                                                  	
hand and forearm, as a unit of measurement, ell/cubit 	                                               	                                                                                  	
šu-da                                                 	ell/cubit                                      	2 gat of a cubit of 5 gat divided into 30 shusi                                   	2 gat of a cubit of 5 gat divided into 30 shusi
double remen                                          	                                               	                                                                                  	
ñìr                                                   	step; way, path                                	60 shusi = 50 uban                                                                	= 1 m
kùš-numun                                             	                                               	2 ñiš-bad                                                                         	= 1 m
ñidri+ uru9                                           	‘support’; úr, ‘leg(s)’; pace                  	                                                                                  	= 1.5 m
ñìri…gub                                              	to step on ‘foot’ + ‘to stand’                 	                                                                                  	= 3 m
qanu                                                  	                                               	6 ammat                                                                           	= 3.6 m
še ñiš-è-a                                            	‘grain’ + ‘stick’ + ‘to exit from’ + nominative	harvested grain that has just been threshed and only roughly measured with a stick	harvested grain that has just been threshed and only roughly measured with a stick
gi                                                    	reed (circular + to sprout)                    	6 cubits                                                                          	= 3 m
éše, éš[šè]                                           	rope; measuring tape/cord                      	10 nindan rods = 20 reeds = 120 cubits                                            	
Area measure square roots                             	                                               	                                                                                  	
side of the ordinary iku                              	                                               	60 ordinary kù                                                                    	30 m
side of the ordinary iku                              	                                               	60 qanu = 1/6 sos                                                                 	
side of the great iku                                 	                                               	60 qanu                                                                           	36 m
Other                                                 	                                               	                                                                                  	
sos                                                   	                                               	= 360 ganu                                                                        	≈ 180 m
parasang                                              	                                               	= 30 sos                                                                          	≈ 5.4 km
kapsu                                                 	                                               	= 2 parasang                                                                      	≈ 10.8 km
=== Sumerian area measure ===
* 1 uzalag 
* 1 uzalak:  = 1/4 of an iku = 25 sar
* 1 še: barley; grain; = 432 square linear barleycorns = 12 square uban
* 1 ubu : 	 = 1/2 of an iku (= 50 sar).
* 1 sar:
* 1 šar: 'garden plot' = 1 square ninda
* 1 square ninda = 60 surface shekels = 1/100 iku 
* 1 square ninda = 4 square reeds = 144 square cubits 
* 1 iku: 	= 3600 meters2 = 100 sar = 1 square 'rope' = 1/18 bùr 
* (plural Akk. form of ég, ék, 'levee').
* 1 éše, = 120 1/2 cubits or feet = the side of 1 square iku in area 
*  éš[ŠÈ]: = 6 iku; leash (can be an adverbial suffix like eš) 
* (eš, 'much', + eš, 'much') [ŠE3 archaic frequency: 152].
* nindan, 
* ninda: rod = 12 cubits (kùš) = 6 meters; one side of a sar
* šar, 'garden plot' square measure 
* from Akk. middatu, mindatu, 'to measure'
=== Sumerian volume measure ===
	
* 1 gur = 1 square ninda times 1 kùš = 144 kùš3 
* 1 gur = 18 cubic meters 
* 1 bariga = 60 gur PI or UL in Old Sumerian period
* 1 bariga = 36 sìla in the Old Sumerian period 
* 1 bán-rig-a = 6 bán. 'the bán from picking, gleaning'
* 1 èše: = 6 iku.
* 1 bùr: = 18 iku = 3 éše = 1800 sar 
* the amount of land that supported a family 
* 1 bùru from Akkadian buuru IV, "hunger", 
* bii/eeru IV, "space, distance"
* gána, gán: tract of land, field parcel; 
* (flat) surface, plane; measure of surface; shape, outline;
* cultivation = iku = gan- field" GAN2 
* 1 ma-na-tur: little mina = 1/3 shekel = 60 surface še = 720 square uban
* 1 a-ñá-ri-in: a flat area measured in sar 
* 1 ñarim
* 1 A-ñar: 	
* 1 e5-ñar
* 1 gín-tur: little shekel = 1/60 shekel = 1/3600 square nindan 
* 1 sar = 3 surface še = 36 square fingers 
* 1 sar = surface of the side of a cube of 1 sìla capacity.
=== Akkadian length ===
* 1 ŠU.BAD: 'open hand' = 12 šusi = 220 mm = 8.66"
* 1 ammat cubit of 530 mm - 20.87 a unit of wheat or barley measure	
* 1 ammatu := 6 long qat= 600 mm
* 1 ÑIŠ-BAD: =1 kùš. 600 mm	
* 1 UŠ: = 6 ropes = 60 nindan rods.
===Akkadian area ===
* 2 AŠ: = 1/2 of an iku (= 50 sar).
* 1 iku: = 3600 meters2 = 100 sar = 1 square 'rope' 
* 1 iku = 1/18 bùr plural Akk. form of ég, ék, 'levee'
* 1 éš[ŠÈ]: = 120 cubits = the side of 1 square iku in area 
=== Akkadian volume ===
* 1 bariga = 60 sìla in the Old Akkadian and Neo-Sumerian periods.
142.0.102.190 (talk) 02:05, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  International Standards of a stadia related to a degree gradually developed 

message: * 1 bariga = 60 sìla in the Old Akkadian and Neo-Sumerian periods.
142.0.102.190 (talk) 02:05, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Akkadian volume 

message: 457.2 mm is not an exact number. It's an exact conversion from 18 inches. This should be obvious from the phrase "usually estimated as approximately." Kendall-K1 (talk) 23:53, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biblical cubit 

message: What is the reason to treat ell and cubit as different lemmata instead as synonyms?? Kipala (talk) 09:32, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Ell - cubit

message: I thought this article once talked about a four-foot cubit (4'). Was that removed, and if so why? Does anyone know anything about this?  Misty MH (talk) 13:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, there were; and I guess I just missed it in the article. And its citations are also present. A cubit called the Roman ulna was approximately four feet long. I must have searched for "4'" instead of "four foot" or "four feet" etc. The length, it says, was approximately 120 centimeters (120cm, 120 cm), which conversion comes to "47.2441" inches, or 3'11.244 inches, 3/4 of an inch short of 4 feet. 122cm would be four feet. Misty MH (talk) 23:01, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The four-foot cubit (4') 

message: I added... Bible scholars struggle over the choice of common cubits (6 palms x 4 fingers = 24 digits) or royal cubits (7 palms x 4 fingers = 28 digits). 2601:580:102:B0F9:B459:ABCE:26C3:DB41 (talk) 17:17, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your good faith edit, although such a claim would still require of us to show a source (reference) for verification. If you can provide us with the source, we'll restore your edit.Davidbena (talk) 16:36, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biblical Cubits are either Common Cubits of 6 Palms or Royal Cubits of 7 Palms 

message: I added this... The most well-known use of the cubit is found in the Torah & Tanakh/King James Bible with Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, and King Solomon's Temple. 2601:580:10D:2A8B:946C:6E66:3F21:18AE (talk) 13:09, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed it as unsourced. You'll need to show that is the consensus opinion. Doug Weller talk 19:00, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The most well-known use of the Cubit is found in the Torah & Tanakh/King James Bible with Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, and King Solomon's Temple  

message: I tweaked the intro... The shorter unit - common cubit - was based on the forearm length from the tip of the middle finger to the bottom of the elbow and was divided as 6 palms x 4 fingers = 24 digits<ref]Vitruvian Man</ref]. Royal cubits added a palm for 7 palms x 4 fingers = 28 digits.<ref]Stephen Skinner, Sacred Geometry - Deciphering The Code (Sterling, 2009) & many other sources</ref]. 73.85.202.136 (talk) 17:13, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common Cubit was 6 palms x 4 fingers = 24 digits, Royal cubit was 7 palms x 4 fingers = 28 digits  

message: I tweaked... Use of the royal cubit is also known from Old Kingdom architecture, from at least as early as the construction of the Step Pyramid of Djoser designed by Imhotep in around 2700 BC. 2601:589:4800:9090:489:97E6:2CC8:D11E (talk) 14:31, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Step Pyramid of Pharaoh Djoser was designed by Imhotep using Royal Cubits (7x4) c. 2700 BC 

message: I rewrote the opening paragraph... The cubit is an ancient unit of length based on the distance from the elbow to the middle finger. It's primarily associated with the Sumerians, Egyptians and Israelites. "Cubits" is found in the Bible re: Noah's Ark, Ark of the Covenant, Tabernacle, Solomon's Temple. The common cubit was divided into 6 palms × 4 fingers = 24 digits.Vitruvian Man. Royal cubits added a palm for 7 palms × 4 fingers = 28 digits.Stephen Skinner, Sacred Geometry – Deciphering The Code (Sterling, 2009) & many other sources. These lengths typically ranged between , with an ancient Roman cubit being as long as . 2601:589:4802:AB0:1DE7:6CD9:873A:D26B (talk) 14:54, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro to Cubit - Ancient Sumerians, Egyptians and Israelites - Common Cubits 6 palms & Royal Cubits 7 palms  

message: Curious if this is the oldest unit of measurement we know of? Any older units known? AslanFrench (talk) 00:13, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oldest unit of measurement we know of?