Talk:Slow loris

message: The article about venom links here and the article is in the venomous mammal category yet the article itself makes no mention of the slow loris being venomous or any detail related to that. Dr. Lobotomy (talk) 00:52, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that the literature doesn't explicitly say that they have venom... just a toxin that they keep in their mouth.  Between following the sources and having a good definition of the word "venomous", it made it quite difficult to write.  I'm open to discussion of the topic, though. – VisionHolder « talk » 08:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

text: The article already cites most of those sources, and the article phrases things in a way that fall in line with the views of leading loris researchers.  More may be published about it soon.  There is a strong possibility that that toxin is only found in wild lorises, not captive ones, and it may be a result of their diet.  Without a diet of toxic insects, the secretion may be no more potent than cat dander.  But we can't say this until the research is published.  For now, the debate over whether the slow loris is venomous or not boils down to a debate over the precise meaning of the word "venomous".  At this point, I am inclined to favor the phrase "toxic bite". – Maky « talk » 22:21, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Venomous? 

message: A note to my co-authors of this article, and anyone else wanting to comment:
In the Natural World series on the BBC, the slow loris was just featured in the U.K. with a special entitled "Jungle Gremlins of Java", which followed Dr. Nekaris around the Java as she studied slow loris distribution and the toxicity of their bite, while also addressing the illegal pet trade.  (I should note that our research and discussion of the illegal trade, along with some perfect timing, helped to spark a protest on YouTube last year, which helped popularize this issue and get the BBC interested in Dr. Nekaris' work.  Good job, team, for our small part!)  Anyway, the video stated some information that is not present in the article, and I wouldn't be surprised that as this video gets released in other countries, people will start trying to add it in.  Three of these tidbits that I noted when watching it include:
# Slow lorises have "two tongues".
# There may be as many as 12 species. 
# The toxic bite may be used to repel parasites or to injure/kill other lorises competing for territory.  (They even showed Dr. Nekaris testing this.)  The show also noted that lorises returned to the wild have a low survival rate, and this may be due to not getting the chemicals needed to produce their toxin in their captive diets.
These are all interesting points, but obviously we will need to watch for publications from Nekaris that discuss them.  I know in Osman Hill's book, the "two tongues" are discussed for all strepsirrhines, so we can probably add that.  It's called a "sublingua" and is thought to be used by strepsirrhines to clean their toothcomb, and possible help collect nectar in some lemur species.  For some reason, the staff at the Duke Lemur Center insist quite strongly on the term frenulum (or lingual frenulum), but I know no other literature that uses that term to describe this organ.  Anyway, I can try to add this later if everyone feels it would make a good addition. – VisionHolder « talk » 22:57, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The sublingua has been mentioned in the article with appropriate citations.  I used the same explanation on this article as I did on the Lemur article.  I will try to create an article on the sublingua, and if we are lucky, someone at the Duke Lemur Center may help by contributing a photo.  The rest of the information above will have to wait for future publications. – VisionHolder « talk » 07:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Two tongues" and more... 

message: What does crown strepsirrhines means? It appears in the section Anatomy and physiology, 4 paragraph. --Andresisrael (talk) 21:01, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for catching that.  I have linked the word "crown" to the article Crown group.  In short, it means "living strepsirrhines" but simplifying it this way can lead to misinterpretations since it does not exclude recently extinct strepsirrhines.  Basically, the crown strepsirrhines exclude much older, extinct groups of strepsirrhines that are more distantly related (called stem groups).  I hope that explains it.  Unfortunately, any discussion of primates gets confusing because too few people understand their evolutionary history, and oversimplifying terms often leads to misunderstandings, even among experts.  – Maky « talk » 03:54, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Term 

message: Hi again, I think this () could be a better and more recent source about the presence of a sagittal crest in Nycticebus. --Andresisrael (talk) 00:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, both are old.  What is the conclusion of this paper?  (All the article says is: "The skull has prominent crests.")  I don't have access to it, and the scanned first page is hard to read.  Is it simply suggesting differences in these crests between Nycticebus species?  If so, it might be worthwhile to wait for some upcoming literature by Anna Nekaris.  I believe she is working to revise slow loris taxonomy, and I'm pretty sure that will be addressed. – Maky « talk » 01:46, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If Nekaris is working in an upcoming research or book, is better to wait. Actually I was quite sorprize that in Primate Anatomy didn't mention anything about it. --Andresisrael (talk) 05:02, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I just checked Osman Hill's detailed volume on strepsirrhine anatomy, and it didn't say anything about the crests.  I guess it wasn't noteworthy? – Maky « talk » 05:44, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sagittal crest 

message: Hi, I just want to announce that I traduced this article to the Spanish version of Wikipedia, where I'm going to nominate it to AD (the spanish version of FA). BTW, incredible article Maky. If you have any suggestion (I don't know if you speak Spanish), please talk to me in my talk page. --Andresisrael (talk) 13:13, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slow loris in Spanish 

message: In the seccion Anatomy and Physiology, 6th paragraph, it says that the pygmy slow loris can weight 265 g. In Nekaris et al 2010, it says that it weight from 360 g to 580 g. I think that in the article it should say Bornean slow loris. --Andresisrael (talk) 02:04, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weight 

message: Researchers discover new species of slow loris with toxic bite
At the end of the article, it is stated that slow loris are tortured in order to induce them to cry. Then the tears are collected for use in traditional medicine. I find this claim highly dubious. I thought that humans 
were the only animal that produces tears in response to physical or emotional pain. Besides, it would be more efficient to introduce an irritant such as pepper.
If you are planning to include this torture claim, please find a more reliable source. Becalmed (talk) 23:28, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't planning on it, and I would have reverted it if someone had.  What I think it means is that they burn it alive, and as it shrieks in pain, its eyes melt and the juices pour out.  That is what they would collect.  In fact, this is already discussed in the article Conservation of slow lorises: "Slow lorises are also burned alive, causing their eyes to burst and release a liquid called minyak kukang (or loris oil)..." – Maky « talk » 00:25, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the info! I'm glad that you didn't need my heads up. Becalmed (talk) 02:50, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent article suggests slow loris weep in response to pain 

message: The lede says that contrary to earlier claims, there are now eight known species; the body of the article ("Distribution and diversity") says that there are five. This should be reconciled. Joefromrandb (talk) 11:50, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Done... except I can't list the other species and their locations until I have a better source than an online news source.  I am waiting for the formal publication be released, and that may be getting held up because of the news leak.  And FYI, it's a "lead" not a "lede".  There's a difference—see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. – Maky « talk » 23:45, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of species 

message: :"...and when threatened, they freeze and become docile."
Hard to believe "docile" would be the right word choice for what happens in the face of a predator.  Also, 'freezing' and 'becoming docile' seem to be somewhat contradictory here - rigid vs. pliable.  Perhaps "freeze and remain immobile" or simply "freeze"?  Should there also be added something like "...biting only when directly threatened"?    Heavenlyblue (talk) 16:38, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Both "freeze" and "docile" is actually the words used in the source.  However since the wording is too close to that of the source, I will reword to say "...and when threatened, they stop moving and remain immobile" as you suggest.  As for the suggestion about their biting, I'm not sure why this is needed.  The part of the article that first discusses their bite in detail starts with: "When threatened, slow lorises may also lick their brachial glands and bite their aggressors..."  This shows that they are not aggressive animals and bite only in self defense.  – Maky « talk » 17:46, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggested the reference to biting as a more logical alternative to "and become docile".  I must point out that "bite only in self defense" from the source is essentially identical to my suggestion of "biting only when directly threatened".  Either is fine.    Heavenlyblue (talk) 18:34, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  docile 

message: Why is the Slow Loris slow? Maybe it would be helpful to readers if this were explained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.12.116.125 (talk • contribs) 
:The article already discusses this sufficiently.  Search for: "Slow lorises are slow and deliberate climbers" and read that paragraph. – Maky « talk » 16:51, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  An important question remains unanswered throughout the article... 

message: I have just removed a statement that claimed the slow loris possesses a "potentially lethal bite". I feel that, even with the word "potentially", such a statement requires some evidence. I also removed the reference that was used to support that statement (Exploring cultural drivers for wildlife trade via an ethnoprimatological approach: a case study of slender and slow lorises (Loris and Nycticebus) in South and Southeast Asia). The article from the reference just says:
"Other features of lorises, however, including their strong odor and potentially lethal bite [Alterman, 1995]"
and I do not have access to the Alterman reference, which may be found at the following link:
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-1-4757-2405-9_24
I think that someone with access to that book should decide if it constitutes sufficient evidence of a "potentially lethal bite". If so, restore the statement that I deleted, but cite Alterman, not the old reference.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cog77 (talk • contribs) 15:28, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The article was entirely rewritten a few years ago as a large collaborative effort, and this source was included in that research.  The toxicity of the bite has been noted in research by Nekaris (a leading slow loris researcher) and even discussed on a popular documentary on the BBC.  The material also was vetted at FAC. – Maky « talk » 17:06, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

text: The "Behavior and ecology" section outlines in detail the dangers of the bite, including its toxicity and risk of anaphylactic shock.  The "Conservation" section doesn't need to cite everything again. – Maky « talk » 20:18, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

text: Done... though I don't really like it.  It makes that new ref look like it supports the entire statement and not just the minor issue with a single word.  Again, I'm of the opinion that the potential lethality is fully supported elsewhere, so that one brief mention in the original source should be more than sufficient.  If other editors agree, they're welcome to remove the additional ref. – Maky « talk » 22:44, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

text: I did something similar.  It should be good now.  – Maky « talk » 18:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Danger of a slow loris bite 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 15 external links on Slow loris. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://munews.missouri.edu/news-releases/2012/1213-three-new-species-of-venomous-primate-identified-by-mu-researcher/
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/20704172
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cites.org/eng/notif/2006/E052.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/the-eyes-may-be-cute-but-the-elbows-are-lethal-20090708-ddg8.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6731631.stm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/2010/05/lorises-at-risk-from-illegal-trade.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.jwcs.org/english/07.5.26%20Cop14%20Slow%20lorise%20report.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://news.mongabay.com/2011/0313-hance_umbrella_loris.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/youtube-sensation-fuelling-trade-in-an-endangered-species-2248930.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.venomdoc.com/venomdoc/Mammals_files/slow%20loris%20chapter.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mnhn.fr/publication/geodiv/g97n4a4.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.kfbglivingforests.org/content/issue15/feature1.php
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.djmt.nl/cgi/t/text/get-pdf?idno=m7603a04%3Bc%3Dctz
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://vincentnijman.org/files/a55_nekarisnijman_nycticebus_foliaprimatol_2007.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110727185114/http://www.primate-sg.org/PDF/APJ1.1.bengalensis.pdf to http://www.primate-sg.org/PDF/APJ1.1.bengalensis.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Slow loris. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120309212455/http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?idn=966021282&dok_var=d1&dok_ext=pdf&filename=966021282.pdf to http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?idn=966021282&dok_var=d1&dok_ext=pdf&filename=966021282.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:12, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Slow loris. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110811140444/http://anthropology.tamu.edu/faculty/gursky-doyen/publications/Gursky%202008b.pdf to http://anthropology.tamu.edu/faculty/gursky-doyen/publications/Gursky%202008b.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:00, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This species has been moved to new genus Xanthonycticebus, so we will have some work to do here to clean up from that move. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:17, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  New genus for the ''pygmaeus'' species 

message: Would be useful to have a public domain image in the article with the animal's teeth visible or bared. The existing images have the mouth closed or teeth clipped Erik Humphrey (talk) 16:50, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image request