Talk:1975 Algiers Agreement

message: I decided it would be best to have this under Algiers Agreement since theres already a 2000 one. Algiers accord is only used for the 1975 agreement. --Karimi 22:53, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Need for disambiguation

message: Template: has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you.   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 15:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: TfD nomination of [[:Template:{{ucfirst:PD-Old regime Iraq}}]]

message: I understand wikipedia naming convention but the actual agreement states Arvand River.  --Nepaheshgar (talk) 15:53, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nepaheshgar, your edit summary mentioned that [the use of Arvand Rud] is part of the agreement of 1975. I may be missing something here, but I see no such mention of Arvand Rud in the treaty's agreement's text (nor of Shatt al-Arab for that matter, since as far as I can see the text diplomatically avoids to name the waterway). – So, could you please indicate me exactly in which part of the text have you seen the name mentioned ? - Thank you already. Best, Ev (talk) 15:56, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

text: (edit conflict, apparently making the same point exactly the same minute :-) I haven't been able to find an authoritative text of the actual Algiers agreement, which was apparently just an informal communiqué. I don't know if it is identical to the text we are currently quoting; if it is, it obviously isn't mentioning the name of the river at all. However, the actual, formal Treaty concerning the State frontier and neighbourly relations, which was concluded as a follow-up to Algiers, in Bagdad, on 13/06/1975, can be found on the UN website . It has "Shatt al'Arab" in the English  and "Chatt-El-Arab" in the authoritative French text . No mentioning of "Arvand" at all. (That said, I also agree with Ev that the usage in the treaty text would not have any immediate effect on our own editorial usage either way; we are still bound primarily by the principle of "most common name used in English".) Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, this is funny. :-) For clarity: the text this article currently quotes (the communiqué of 6 March 1975) is a different English translation from the French original than the one the UN Treaty Series includes. But, as mentioned above, the relevant fact is clear: the name Arvand is absent from the French original and from both English translations. And from the actual treaty (signed on 13 June 1975) - Ev (talk) 17:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Arvand

message: The treaty and its accompanying documentation are avaiable at the United Nations Treaty Collection: Treaty Series, Vol. 1017, No. 14903, pages 54 to 213 (pages 66 to 225 of this rather large .pdf file ).
It comprises the treaty concerning the State frontier and neighbourly relation (signed at Baghdad on 13 June 1975), and various accompanying documents, including the joint Iranian-Iraqi communiqué (dated 6 March 1975, Algiers), whose text is reproduced in this Wikipedia article.
*The French-language originals (pages 56 to 135 ; pages 68 to 147 of the .pdf file) use the forms Chatt-El-Arab & Chatt El-Arab consistently, although the form Shatt-El-Arab is also used when referring to a map with an English title, published par l'Amirauté britannique. :-)
*The English-language translations (pages 136 to 213 ; pages 148 to 225 of the .pdf file) uses the form Shatt al'Arab consistently.
*The name Arvand is absent from all documents.
The French original of the accompanying joint Iranian-Iraqi communiqué (dated 6 March 1975, Algiers), whose text is reproduced in this Wikipedia article, is in pages 118-119 (pages 130-131 of the .pdf file), and the point referring to the waterway reads:
"2. De délimiter leurs frontièrs fluviales selon la ligne du thalweg."
The English translation is in pages 196-197 (pages 208-209 of the .pdf file), and reads:
"2. They will delimit their river frontiers along the thalweg;"
The name of the river is not mentioned in the communiqué.
Also included in Vol. 1017 is the agreement concerning the rules governing navigation on the Shatt al'Arab, signed at Baghdad on 26 December 1975 (Treaty Series, Vol. 1017, No. 14905), whose French original and English translation mirror the usages described above (see pages 229-243 ; pages 251-255 of the .pdf file). The name Arvand is absent from all documents.
Regards, Ev (talk) 16:16, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: (edit conflict, apparently making the same point exactly the same minute :-) I haven't been able to find an authoritative text of the actual Algiers agreement, which was apparently just an informal communiqué. I don't know if it is identical to the text we are currently quoting; if it is, it obviously isn't mentioning the name of the river at all. However, the actual, formal Treaty concerning the State frontier and neighbourly relations, which was concluded as a follow-up to Algiers, in Bagdad, on 13/06/1975, can be found on the UN website . It has "Shatt al'Arab" in the English  and "Chatt-El-Arab" in the authoritative French text . No mentioning of "Arvand" at all. (That said, I also agree with Ev that the usage in the treaty text would not have any immediate effect on our own editorial usage either way; we are still bound primarily by the principle of "most common name used in English".) Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, this is funny. :-) For clarity: the text this article currently quotes (the communiqué of 6 March 1975) is a different English translation from the French original than the one the UN Treaty Series includes. But, as mentioned above, the relevant fact is clear: the name Arvand is absent from the French original and from both English translations. And from the actual treaty (signed on 13 June 1975) - Ev (talk) 17:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The treaty uses Shatt al-Arab

message: I think this title goes to either the Chinese Civil War (1927-1949) the Second Sino Japanese War (1937-1945) or the Argelian War (1954-1962)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.19.206 (talk) 01:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Longest war in XX century? 

message: So in this agreement,  it was agreed that they would permanently delineate the boundary.   Did this actually happen,  prior to the subsequent war ?Eregli bob (talk) 03:05, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  So then what happened ? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This is incomprehensible (sub section The Agreement):
: Areas of Iraq are intended to provide some strategic depth was missing from an Iranian attack.
--Mortense (talk) 21:19, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomprehensible sentence