Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 14

message: For the love of everything that is good, would someone with better skills than me have a look at the Streets of Rage article?  I signed up just to correct some of the basic spelling errors and run on sentences, but it stills looks as if it was written by a seven year old.  I also don't know much of the game myself, so I didn't want to do anything to drastic. Blah3000 20:09, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Streets of Rage would be a brilliant case for the Weekly collaboration. Those left justified screenshots will be first against the wall when the revolution comes. It's an infuriating article because all of the information is there it's just so hard to read, to paraphrase Eric Morecambe "It's playing all the right notes... but not necessarily in the right order." - X201 21:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Streets of Rage 

message: There has been a proposed move to move Sega CD to Sega Mega-CD/Sega CD, and the issue of the rather awkward hybrid name has been brought up again.  After a protracted war on the Talk:Sega Mega Drive page, the article was finally moved to Sega Mega Drive/Sega Genesis.  I wanted to bring the issue here because it shouldn't exist - we should pick one name and stick with it.  How awkward is it to type Sega Mega Drive/Sega Genesis and having to pipe that link in?  I would rather do Sega Genesis so I would only have to write it out half the time.  Same with the Sega CD. Hbdragon88 07:42, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is pretty ridiculous. Unless I missed it, though, no one actually cited hard numbers to determine which "system" was actually more popular worldwide (though I strongly suspect it was Mega Drive). Not that I want to open up another can of worms, but was this ever taken to RfC or other arbitration? --SevereTireDamage 11:34, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well yeah, the Google test has problems.  And while the Mega Drive probably is more popular - as it was the name in all territories except the U.S. - I think the "Genesis" defenders made a persusasive argument, saying that just naming it the Mega Drive would confuse U.S. readers.  This resembles the gasoline title war, except that it appears that that war was solved without RFC or Arbcom involvement (but I'm not sure). Hbdragon88 16:50, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this done anywhere else on Wikipedia?  Doubt it; just wondering.  As someone from the US I'd say Genesis (use that as the article name), but I guess that would maybe confuse some European readers.  Of course, it's just as easy to do what most articles do in the lead: "System (Alternate name in Europe) is..." -- gakon5 20:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sega hybrid name 

message: I'm making a strong effort to greatly improve the Super Metroid article and I wondered if anyone might be interested in helping. I've done a lot of work on it in the past, but it had become very jumbled up and full of stuff that was totally off-topic both for the article itself and for Wikipedia. It breaks my heart to see this article with a B classification; my goal is for it to be in tip-top shape.--QuasarTE 09:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Metroid 

message: There is discussion ongoing at Talk:Resident Evil about the role of dab pages when disambiguating between a game and the series named after it. A third opinion would be appreciated. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 10:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Resident Evil]] 

message: Wario has been nominated at FAR, here. Please leave comments. Highway Return to Oz... 18:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wario]] 

message: People here might want to check out gamestudies.org, which appears to be a peer-reviewed scholarly game journal. Browsing a bit, I was able to find articles on The Sims, Grand Theft Auto, Halo: Combat Evolved, Lara Croft, Counter-Strike, and others. The CS one is particularly interesting in that it covers behaviors during multiplayer — the type of stuff that traditionally has not been well-sourced or has been outright deemed unverifiable here on Wikipedia. There's a lot of interesting material to use. — TKD::Talk 00:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting link, thanks for posting it. --SevereTireDamage 07:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  An online peer-reviewed [[ludology]] journal 

message: Having recently joined the Computer and Video Games WikiProject, and as a member of the Good articles WikiProject, I have a goal of making RuneScape a Good article.
The RuneScape article has previously failed a Featured Article nomination and failed a Good Article nomination. I sent it for Peer Review, raising several concerns, but received no significant responses.
If you wish to collaborate with me to make RuneScape a good article, please read and reply on RuneScape's talk page. Thanks.
--J.L.W.S. The Special One 06:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who wants to work with me to make [[RuneScape]] a [[WP:GA|good article]]? 

message: Having recently joined the Computer and video games WikiProject, my first task will be to work on the AdventureQuest article.
The article desperately needs a rewrite and cleanup. Although I will help with that, one of my main tasks will be to provide in-game screenshots, as well as to play the game to check facts provided (in some cases, in-game screenshots may be used as proof of concept).
However, as a level 58 non-Guardian, I stopped playing AdventureQuest several months ago due to the Guardian Only Login feature. I recently tried to log in, and discovered a new survey which non-Guardians could take in order to gain unlimited login access for 24 hours. This allows me to log in to play the game, take in-game screenshots and fact-check.
Therefore, I need someone to give me the green light, before I take the survey and log in. In addition, I hope you can offer me advice (for example, style) I should bear in mind when making my very major edit(s) to the article, which may take several hours. I will probably do this next weekend, possibly earlier depending on my real-life situation.
--J.L.W.S. The Special One 09:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Working on the [[AdventureQuest]] article. 

message: I have an interesting question for the brains trust here.I'm working on an article, Nexus War, which is a browser-based MMORPG. While there's some useful information on the project page regarding computer and video games, there doesn't seem to be a lot of useful information for this style of game.
So, I'd like to ask people here - how should I be going about structuring an article on something like this? I suspect that the article could be made into a very good article, but I'm not sure what aspects of a browser-based game are worth discussing. Obviously there's Gameplay and Story, but I'm not sure how much of Story should be in the teaser, and whether I should be splitting Gameplay into sub-headings, and if so what these sub-headings should be.
Can anyone give me any ideas as to where I should be going with this article? -- Kirby1024 05:13, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I looked at the page, and I would suggest giving up on adding to it. It doesn't seem that notable, and will probably get deleted. RobJ1981 05:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Even if this article gets deleted, this genre of games has a few noteworthies (Urban Dead being the major one), so even some general guidelines on this sort of genre would be nice. -- Kirby1024 05:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. This was one reason why Neopets and RuneScape failed both Featured Article and Good Article - referencing. I think the Verifiability policy is ridiculous and harms this genre of articles. I have plans to improve RuneScape to Good Article status, and to clean up AdventureQuest. I've posted here seeking the collaboration of this WikiProject, but I've received no responses so far - which defeats my purpose of joining the WikiProject in the first place. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 16:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Verifiability is, generally speaking, non-negotiable; That's what makes it policy and not a mere guideline. It's why WP:WEB and WP:MEME look the way they do, despite numerous attempts to change that. Nifboy 16:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding verifiability, if you use my book analogy (and as far as I'm concerned it's a perfectly valid analogy, since adventure games and books can both be stories), WP:NOR and WP:RS seem counterintuitive, don't they? B7T 19:29, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some questions Re: Browser-based games 

message: We currently have no less than 18 pages describing (I can't even call it "summarizing") the story of StarCraft (all linked from StarCraft storyline), and that's not counting character, race, and other plot summary articles. This is absolutely excessive for one game.
So what do we do about it? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:52, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ouch. It looks a novel adaption of Starcraft, practically. Not knowing anything about Starcraft, admittedly, I don't see how the main storyline page is lacking in sufficient detail. There also seems to be some original research problems. A gentle approach would to give editors some time to consolidate any needed context into the main storyline page before nominating the auxiliary pages for deletion, but the need for consolidation seems to be minimal. I agree that, one way or another, though, the auxiliary articles should go. — TKD::Talk 06:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Normally I'm against massive AfDs, but considering that even the Final Fantasy games don't have this much exposition on their fictional world, it's pretty hard to argue that all of these belong in the Wikipedia. --SevereTireDamage 07:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You should see the number of subpages RuneScape has. Someone tried to AfD all of them. However, the AfD failed. I think it should be trimmed to about 5 sections. Does anyone wish to collaborate with me to make RuneScape a good article (please read sections I posted above)? --J.L.W.S. The Special One 06:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[StarCraft storyline]] and its child pages 

message: The article Walt Disney World Quest: Magical Racing Tour has been tagged. It was mainly written by myself and I was wondering what exactly is right and wrong. If anyone could correct the article that would be very much appreciated. I do not understand how this is poor writing. If you could put up a paragraph and then correct it for me on here that would be great. Thanks. --Thorpe | talk 11:01, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "For whatever reason" is what you'd call informal, and the use of the second person ("you") is a no-go.  That's all I can really see. -- gakon5 15:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formal tone 

message: I added a featured article candidates section right below the featured articles section.  Thought that those articles deserved some recognition, and it's not too hard to keep on top of. --PresN 17:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: FAC

message: I have created a new page, Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games/New article announcements, where people can announce their new articles related to video games. I'm not great at writing articles from scratch, but like fixing up stubby articles, so I thought this kind of page would be nice to have. I've added a link to the page on the WikiProject page, hope that's ok. Ajaxfan 19:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, I just noticed that there's a Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games/Noticeboard. It's not really clear what the purpose of that page is to me, and it doesn't seem to be used much. Perhaps it should just be a redirect? Ajaxfan 20:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It can be used to call any sort of attention to an article, but generally it's been used to call for third opinions to disputes, since expansion pushes for GA/FA go to CVG Peer Review, the weekly collab and the also inactive CVGI. I cleaned it out recently, though it still doesn't get much attention, not much more than a posting a month. It's another case of things that generally get brought to this talk page instead. --SevereTireDamage 20:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WPCVG/New]] 

message: Should there be a standard for the color of GameBoy game screenshots displayed in articles? Although emulators are default black and white, most people probably are more familiar with the yellow-green monochrome colors, and the BGB emulator allows for a setup like this. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening shows the yellow-green setup, while Final Fantasy Legend shows black and white. Which is more ideal? Personally, I prefer yellow-green. --Tristam 04:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think there's a standard for this, but I'll bet either way is fine; whatever the screenshot comes in (in the case of website-retreived ones) is what you get I guess. -- gakon5 06:12, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Color of GameBoy game screenshots?

message: I noticed that the box over to the side there was pretty out of date, so I fixed it somewhat.  The Peer Review and Cleanup sections are now up to date.  --PresN 17:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: SevereTireDamage and I have cleaned up the box.  I removed everything placed in there before June and added a peer review, he threw in some random create requests, so that they might have a higher chance of being made, and killed the AvP merge request that has been there since the box was created, back in December.  --PresN 20:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Project box

message: I added a good article section.  For no other reason than I wanted to, frankly.  That, and I thought that it would be good to showcase some of the good articles, get people to try to push them to FA. --PresN 20:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And added featured lists, since i realized that there are two of them, that weren't ont he page to start with.  --PresN 20:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If we're going to keep track of all the featured articles and good articles on the WikiProject page, then isn't having a seperate article rather redundant? Perhaps a better idea would be to do with Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games/Deletion, which is cloned on the WikiProject page. Makes more sense IMO. Ajaxfan 20:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok well I went ahead and did it.... thoughts? Ajaxfan 21:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea.  I support it.  --PresN 21:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I've also cloned Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games/New article announcements on the project page. Ajaxfan 22:12, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh lord...User:Timkovski created about 20 new vg related pages.  I have to leave, so i can't update the list right now, but if someone would add everything he created, found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Timkovski, that'd be great.  Also, they need tagged, and de-stubified, but I'll tag them later.  --PresN 23:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ugh, I've left him a note on his talk page, hopefully he'll do it himself, haven't got time for that myself either. Ajaxfan 23:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I could do it.Noah A. 23:41, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok, All of Timkovski's articles are logged under the New articles page.Noah A. 00:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice :) Ajaxfan 00:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Fixed it before I saw this, and columned it. --PresN 16:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Articles

message: I updated the wikiprojects list on the main page, and alphabatized it. Information based off of here.  Comments?  Feel like I included something I shouldn't have?  Or missed something?  --PresN 22:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good. I think Wikipedia:WikiProject Arcade games used to be listed, but was removed due to inactivity. No point sending new users to inactive WikiProjects. Ajaxfan 22:23, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProjects

message: The pages for Gothic II and 3 link to the article for Gothic I, as if it was an article for the series. yet it's almost only about Gothic I - and even that article is more a stub than anything else. Most of the article is the Story - and even there only a few sentences are about the actual story. The major part is pre-game story and seems to be copied from the manual.
So I'll try to form it into a proper article, creating articles for Gothic II and 3 and the series.
I'm not really sure in which order that would be done best (suggestions?).
If anyone is also interested in working on this, I'll be glad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mausz (talk • contribs) 
:I don't see a problem with taking the redirects to Gothic (computer game) (proper link) and creating 2 new stubs for the sequels (Gothic II and Gothic III). But right now there's probably too much information about the story, the gameplay information should be split off into its own section, and the Infobox should be added (see ). For the sequel stubs I would start with the Infoboxes and work from there. I suggest cleaning up the original article, first. --SevereTireDamage 04:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  gothic series 

message: A more lengthy explanation of the sidetrack on the cvgproj thing: The article rating is part of the project template; ergo, it is up to the project to determine quality and notability within gaming, not the 1.0 team (never mind that there are no barriers to membership in either). Our only "formal" interaction with them would be if we decide to nominate a set of CVG articles for the upcoming Wikipedia:Version 0.5. Nifboy 06:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I've been wondering about this for a while but forgot to ask. --SevereTireDamage 16:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Please do rate articles

message: I couldn't find an article for the Oddyssey 2 video game system.  (I think I spelled it right.  If not, just search Yahoo for "KC Munchkin", which was a popular game for the system.)
I used to have the Oddyssey system as a kid.  It had a alphabetic keyboard on it, unlike the other game systems.  The games for it were pretty cool and it was a step up from Intellivision.  But it never caught on like Intellivision or Atari systems did.
Anyone remember the Oddyssey system?  My parents may still have it, if they haven't thrown it out.  I could get a pic if they have it.
Monkeybreath 10:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See Magnavox Odyssey² ˉˉanetode╦╩ 10:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I always remember how to spell Odyssey because Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee is NOT IT in almost every way imaginable. :P -- Nifboy 16:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Oddyssey 2 Article? 

message: Today, I've found several links to wrong pages at the list pages for systems (List of Gamecube games, for example). Example: someone put the link as Catwoman, when it should be for Catwoman video game. I've went through some lists partially, but not completely. Anyone care to help? You basically just need to check games that are based on a movie, TV show, comic book character and so on. RobJ1981 12:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong links at game list pages

message: Well, I was disappointed that PresN listed my WikiProject:Arcade games as inactive, but I couldn't really contest it.  While I am still actively writing articles for arcade games, no big issues have come up lately, so, yeah it looks dead, though I don't think the participants have abandoned it.  But then NeonMerlin came along and actually striked out the project!  Is this really necessary?  The project is still there and free to join, striking it out seems to indicate and is gone or going away.  Can't we leave it with the inactive tag? — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:57, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed it to almost inactive, I suppose if there are still people out there interested in it, you can't really call it dead, just...in a coma.  --PresN 16:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Strike out arcade games?!

message: I'd be grateful if someone could comment on the standard format I proposed here a while ago, for listing archived AfD debates relating to the WikiProject. I've received no replies since posting the question originally, but I'm guessing that has something to do with the fact that the page is a very low-traffic one to begin with.
Thanks! RandyWang (raves/review me!) 07:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment on [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer and video games/Deletion Archive|Deletion Archive]] listings 

message: On the style section, I'm a adding note about treating fiction as fact. Many game articles involving story elements are really bad about this.(I've been guilty of it myself in the past as well.) Albert Wesker is just one recent example I've noticed that's really bad about this sort of thing.--Mitaphane talk 17:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding an item to the style page 

message: List of Arm Wrestling games by genre. It's a page for an Arm Wrestling (arcade game). It's no list at all. I did a little checking, and it's also called Arm Wrestling arcade game: so the whole list thing is a redirect I believe. So could someone delete the list redirect? It's no list, and I don't see why a redirect is for it.  RobJ1981 19:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You've got a good point there. Can you call a list with one item in it a list? (The Wiktionary people can have a semantics debate over that one). I agree with the removal of the re-direct, in fact I think the whole page should go.X201 19:30, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've prodded the page; it should be deleted within a week or so. RandyWang (raves/review me!) 03:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  madea bunch of very idiosyncratic lists like that. I thought I had cleaned them all up, but I guess not. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:47, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are always more. ;) RandyWang (chat me up/fix me up) 21:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Need help on this article

message: Somebody vandalized the Arcade system board page. I have restored it. Who knows what else was deleted? Please can a sysop investigate? Sandman30s 19:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the history, you reverted everything to the way it was.  --PresN 20:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

text: And that's the only thing that that IP has edited. --PresN 20:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, the 'List of Arcade system boards' was deleted, as well as categories. Anyway, I am going to clean up this page and later on add more arcade game entries. Sandman30s 21:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandals lurking... 

message: this AfD got me curious, and so I started searching for games on SourceForge that had articles on Wikipedia; the number appears to be rather large. Given that OSS games get virtually no press (except NetHack), are there any compelling reasons one way or another for these nearly unsourcable games? Nifboy 07:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If they're unsourcable and non-notable, I'd say kill them.  The problem is that if the number is "rather large", you're going to inundate AfD.  Maybe nominate them in chunks of say, 5 at a time?  Like, 5 in one nomination.  The AfD process falls apart when a list of 30 articles is nominated at once.  --PresN 18:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd say there are quite a few notable ones.  Pretty much any source port or other source project is notable as are any games that have gotten rpess coverage.  A lot of them aren't, though. Ace of Sevens 18:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you, but according to our current standards of notability, there's little justification to keep them in. The same rationale being used (usually correctly) to delete the many ROM hacks, fangames, Web and Flash games over the last couple of weeks could be used to delete most SourceForge games. --SevereTireDamage 05:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  SourceForge games? 

message: There is a debate going on at Talk:Dark Castle regarding the allowed use of game icons, from interpreting  and WP:FUC. It could set a precedent for icon use in all game articles, please have a look and leave your comments or make the discussion a general one here! Arru 20:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Game icon usage 

message: Hey I have an article that I wanted to put in the CVG Peer Review (here), but it doesn't have a rating yet. Should I wait for the rating, or should I just put in on the review board? I don't know much about the reviewing process as a whole, so any help would be nice. --Clyde Miller 14:27, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's nothign official about most of the ratings, except for GA and FA, so just go ahead and put it up for peer review- PR is just asking people to comment on it, there's not really anything official obout it either, it's just helpful.  I'll go ahead and rate the article anyway.  --PresN 16:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes. Anyone. Nifboy 17:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't worry about "Authority" or anything of the sort; anyone can do pretty much anything to contribute to this WikiProject. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of anything that's off-limits, except to make major changes without community support. RandyWang (chat me up/fix me up) 21:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's always vandalism. Or taunting Happy Fun Ball. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding Ratings 

message: User:Deckiller and I are of differing opinions about the use of lists in Final Fantasy (video game).  I expanded the gameplay section to this and included a number of lists.  I'm aware of WP:NOT and figured that some of the information might be irrelevant or not of encyclopedic interest, and said so in my comment.  Deckiller and I had a brief discussion on our talk pages (here and here), and my original text has been modified (and greatly improved!) thanks to him.
However, there's one thing which I'd like to ask the project at large.  In a recent comment, Deckiller stated, "bulleted lists are not acceptable in featured articles, see other gaming featured articles" and replaced a bulleted list of player character classes with a prose list.  (Of course, the article in question isn't a featured article, but we'd all like it to be that good.)  We agree that there are certain lists that are unacceptable, but as far as I can tell there are plenty of gaming featured articles which do have bulleted lists.  Not counting lists under "See Also", "Trivia", and so on, I found:
*BZFlag (8 bulleted lists, 1 table)
*Donkey Kong (arcade game) (1 bulleted list)
*Doom (1 bulleted list)
*Katamari Damacy (1 bulleted list, 1 non-bulleted list (of characters))
*The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (1 bulleted list)
*The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (1 bulleted list)
*Perfect Dark (2 bulleted lists, one of which is a sidebar)
*Super Mario 64 (3 bulleted lists, 1 non-bulleted list (under "Tasks, aids, and obstacles"))
*StarCraft (3 bulleted lists)
These tend to be lists of gameplay features or objects (areas, items, enemies, etc.).  The next most common type of list seems to be a list of voice actors.
My own feeling is that some data is both relevant and best presented as a bulleted list, but I realize that the project may have come to some other consensus.  I looked but couldn't find anything in the project pages.  Did I miss something?  Am I making an obvious mistake?  Thanks in advance.  141.211.63.35 17:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The main difference, I think, is in the amount of prose that goes into the lists; In most of the FAs cited (except BZFlag, which is FARC material) each bullet is a full sentence or more, whereas "mere" lists, which provide no context or explanation, are the ones being argued against. Nifboy 20:31, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I basically think that bullets are fine if it's not just things like a list of level names with nothing else.  Like, in Kirby's Dream Land 3 (which I've been working on), I have four lists, one of which is in table form.  The other three are bulleted lists, but each bullet has several sentances to it, so there's plenty of substance in each entry.  If you want a good example of bad lists, try this old revision of Star Wars: Battlefront II.  I consider that a bad case of list overload. -- gakon5 13:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lists in computer and video games articles 

message: I've added a section for the external links templates. I'll be adding a section for image tags later. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent, thank you. These will most definitely come in handy. RandyWang (chat me up/fix me up) 09:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External link templates 

message: I may or may not have deleted 70 out of the 130 new article requests...no, I did, never mind.  I may or may not feel bad about it...no, never mind again.  I'll whack some more later, too.  Please put descriptions on your requests, people.  And don't ask for articles on WC3 mods!  --PresN 16:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Final tally- out of the 132 that were there last week, there are 50 left.  --PresN 22:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletions as Promised

message: I could use some help here:. 
There is many articles listed, many of which could easily be sorted into a subcategory. I went through some, and could use some help with the rest. RobJ1981 20:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there any criteria that need to be stuck to, apart from the obvious one of "put it in the right place"? - X201 22:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Is there a policy on the stub-sorting in regards to multiple categories? I mean situations where you're not sure if a game should go in adventure vs. rpg (see: Fushigi no Dungeon, a console roguelike) or beat 'em up vs. platformer, a Poke-stub that's also an RPG-stub, etc. Are you allowed to put pages in multiple stub cats? --SevereTireDamage 23:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I know of. Multiple stubs can be used, I've seen it and done it myself with no problem. I suggest adding to the cvg stub if possible, and let that be the only stub if you can. But if it's something like a Pac-Man game, it should have platform stub and Namco stub.RobJ1981 23:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Well if the stub doesn't actually exist, revert it back to cvg stub. RobJ1981 00:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I went ahead and placed all of those articles in specific stub categories, so the template is no longer used. --SevereTireDamage 00:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Computer and Video Game stub sorting

message: Hi guys, I suggested this on the List of Nintendo 64 games talk page, but haven't had a reply so I'll put it here. I suggest giving the page an overhaul, putting the list in a table format, so as to give more information and to tidy up the page, similar to the style of the virtual boy games list. I've created an example of what it could look like here, User:Timkovski/n64 list. I also propose removing Japanese titles from the list that are released in other territories and so have an english name, e.g. having an entry in the list for both Castlevania and Akumajou Dracula Mokushiroku when they both point to the same article. I would really appreciate suggestions/comments. Thanks. --Timkovski 20:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense to me. I'd leave in the Japanese/European titles, if applicable, though, they can be consolidated under a single entry, like the Virtual Boy list. --SevereTireDamage 21:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I would prefer trying to limit it to one title per article, with a few exceptions for games without formal English titles (e.g. Doukutsu Monogatari and "Cave Story"). Having two or three titles for most entries would double the size of the pages, and, I imagine, obliterate the navigability thereof.  Nifboy 05:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nintendo 64 list 

message: I think it's time to revisit hte issue of templates - again.  Wario now has four character templates - SSB, Wario series, Mario series, and Mario series villans.  Also, why is the font so small on each of the templates?  We really need to come to a standard on this - we need to format them all the same way, but I disagree with the current style of dialing the font so small, especially when there are so amny entries.  i mean, whne I look at Talk:Wario, there are also a ton of templates, but since they're all the same size, it's easy to go through them.  The inconsistnecy of these templates makes them look really, really bad. Hbdragon88 18:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that they look weirdly incongruous due to their mismatching colors and horizontal sizes. However, right now all menus are hidden by default, so it's not quite as bad as that screenshot makes it look. Making a standard for navboxes will probably be impossible, since the needs of each navbox will be very different. --SevereTireDamage 19:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates, once again 

message: I've started a discussion over at Cultural differences in computer and console role-playing games talk 
page regarding the wide use of the terms cRPG/CRPG to mean "console RPG"/ "computer RPG". I would like to get a bigger perspective from the CVG community before I take action based on this discussion. --Mitaphane talk 19:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  cRPG/CRPG 

message: Jimbo has posted on Talk:List of commercial failures in computer and video gaming say this is OR and should be deleted.  Most of it is sourced in the linked articles, just not in this article.  Everything needs to be sourced or removed or the page won't last long. Ace of Sevens 19:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: List of commercial failures in computer and video gaming

message: So I've been trying to sort some cvg stubs tonight, but I've been noticing that it's very difficult to place games like American Idol (video game) and Dance:UK into relevant categories - none exist that seem to fit them nicely. Since rhythm/music games make up a fairly large genre, is there room for a music-cvg-stub to be created, to put on these articles? RandyWang (chat me up/fix me up) 08:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, sure. This stub could also be used for game albums and tracks as well. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 09:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, cool. I've requested the stub here, and will create it if there are no problems. RandyWang (chat me up/fix me up) 12:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do we need a music-cvg-stub? 

message: 2 things about the video game cover tag:
# It currently accepts up to 3 platforms to categorize an image under, perfect for multiplatform titles. ex: :Image:Ypp box art.jpg.
# I'd like to move it to , but first an admin needs to edit the upload tag list to reflect this (I moved it back after I remembered this).
— Preceding unsigned comment added by CyberSkull (talk • contribs) 
:Wha-da-wha?  Please, explain in a little more detail.  I think you're saying that there's a video game cover tag, which you feel is better than the current game-cover tag, and you'd like an admin to adjust the game-cover one so it matches the video game cover tag?  Am I catching this right? --PresN 17:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe CyberSkull means that  should be moved to , to follow the same format all the other cvg tags do (with the hyphen seperating the words). I will be happy to fix the upload tag list when you're ready to make the move, CyberSkull. Robert 17:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that I think about it, I'm assuming I'd have to move it in order to delete the redirect, but wouldn't it be more beneficial to keep it as  so as to be consistent with the other cover templates, such as , , , etc? Robert 20:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no issue with the actual move. I moved it back no problem because I realized  is on the upload list and I cannot modify it. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 06:17, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, okay. I forgot that non-sysops can revert moves. In any case, I went ahead and edited the upload list, so feel free to move it now. Robert 12:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  game cover tag