Talk:Chữ Nôm/Archive 1

message: I received permission from John Balaban, author of the text on which this entry is based.  Please see the following e-mail:
----
:Yes, you can use just the definition of Chu Nom from our website, but only that, nothing else, especially our Look-Up Tool which I don't imagine interests you anyway, but which is of great importance to us as we change it and upgrade its functions.
:Could you send back to me just the passage that you want to quote?  And, yes, please give a link to our website.
:John Balaban, President
:Vietnamese Nom Preservation Foundation
::----- Original Message ----- 
::From: User:Ryanaxp
::To: info@nomfoundation.org 
::Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:44 PM
::Subject: Copyright permission for text on nomfoundation.org
::Dear Nom Preservation Foundation:
::I would like to request permission to copy the text explanation of Chu Nom from the nomfoundation.org website to create an entry in wikipedia.org. As you may be aware, Wikipedia is a non-commercial, free online encyclopedia which is compiled from thousands of entries submitted by internet users.  Text that is published on Wikipedia must be submitted under the Gnu Public Documentation License, which allows copying, editing and redistribution in an open-source philosophy.
::When I read the introduction to Nom on your webpage (http://www.nomfoundation.org/about/whatisnom.html), I felt it would be a very good entry for the heading "Chu Nom" on Wikipedia.  Please let me know if it is acceptable for me to submit that text for an entry.  If not, I will honor your request and attempt to find another source.
 
::Thanks in advance,
::Ryan
-- Ryanaxp 23:20, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)
:Thank you for your submission, Ryanaxp! – Minh Nguyễn 00:12, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, they are not the same. I think the redirect is there because this article at least has a tiny bit of info, rather than nothing at all. Perhaps an informative stub pointing to this article would be more helpful. — Hippietrail 01:12, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I've created a stub chữ nho and also one hán tư, which also seemed to redirect here. Now I only hope that someone will complete them. David  09:38, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Permission to copy

message: Chu nôm → Chu nom – This article was originally named "Chu nom" and was then moved to "Chu nôm" leaving the old article as a redirect. Chu nôm it is neither English nor Vietnamese. In Vietnamese it is Chữ Nôm, in English it is usually refered to as Chu Nom without any diacritics. I hereby request the move of the current content to Chu nom and the removal of this page. -- RetVal 12:57, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Support and since there was noboy against the move for such a long time I moved the page. --Junyi  論 01:51, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move (May 17, 2005)

message: Unicode does have characters for "chữ" in its "宁+字 and "字+字" variants. I cannot find the "字+宁" variant mentioned here.
===宁+字===
*Codepoint: U+21A38
*Your browser: ��
*Image URL: http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/refglyph?24-21A38
*Full Unicode.org page: http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=21A38
===字+字===
*Codepoint: U+21982
*Your browser: ��
*Image URL: http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/refglyph?24-21982
*Full Unicode.org page: http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=21982
It looks like these codepoints are too new or exotic to have much support so far. — Hippietrail 02:19, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Variant characters 

message: *Codepoint: U+21982
*Your browser: ��
*Image URL: http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/refglyph?24-21982
*Full Unicode.org page: http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=21982
It looks like these codepoints are too new or exotic to have much support so far. — Hippietrail 02:19, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: &#23383;+&#23383;

message: Should this page really refer to Chu Nom as a "vernacular script of the Vietnamese language" when it includes a phrase such as "used almost exclusively by Chinese-educated Vietnamese elites"? It seems to me that to do so would go against the spirit of the word 'vernacular'.
Quoc Ngu, on the other hand, would appear to be a vernacular script of the Vietnamese langauge (a transcription of the native language of the people).  --WibblyLeMoende 30 June 2005 10:10 (UTC)
:It is "vernacular" in the sense that it is adapted for the Vietnamese language.  This is similar to Dante writing in Italian or Chaucer writing in English instead of Latin.  Previously, Classical Chinese was used to write Chinese, not Vietnamese, and thus works written in Classical Chinese need to be translated to be understood in modern Vietnamese.  Works written in Chu nom, on the other hand, do not need translation to be understood.  They just need to be converted to the phonetic writing system.  See The Tale of Kieu and works by Ho Xuan Huong.  DHN 05:00, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vernacular? 

message: Is there an free font with Chữ nôm characters? --Abdull 18:52, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, one of the authors of the most popular nom font is a prolific contributor to the Vietnamese Wikipedia (from Germany).  Download it here. DHN 19:16, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi DHN, once again, thank you very much for your help. :) I added a small section about Chữ nôm fonts in the article. Right now i'm searching for information about the code points for the characters. It seems to me they are not part of the Basic Multilingual Plane (see Mapping of Unicode characters). Bye, --Abdull 00:25, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ask the author directly.  He's pretty responsive.  He can respond in Vietnamese, German, English, and possibly Chinese. DHN 00:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Font 

message: It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. It seems that a move to southern script might be acceptable. --Stemonitis 17:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.
====Survey - in support of the move====
# Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure what should become of this. I suggest avoiding the use of diacritics that indicate tone; other diacritics might be acceptable. Should the result be Chư Nôm? Chu Nôm? Or, simply, Chu Nom?—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 20:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest we use "Chu Nom".  Diacritics are rarely used in English, and article titles ought to be in English.  The diacritics can be indicated in the article itself.  And one issue I also wonder about is, if a reader or editor does not have Vietnamese-language support on his or her computer, what does he see?  My own computers have it, so I see it normally.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 20:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have used the "what if a reader doesn't have Unicode support" argument to argue that Māori language, a legitimate English word, should not have a macron in the title but was assured that I was an idiot to argue such (Talk:Māori_language#Requested_move).  And here, Hán Tự doesn't meet the threshold of English; that would be "Chinese character."  —  AjaxSmack    19:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually that was not an argument, but a genuine concern.  I honestly do not know how Vietnamese tone marks show up on someone's computer if he does not have Vietnamese language support.  Anyway, I would argue that Hán Tự and Chữ Nôm both would fall under the "use English" naming convention in that these tone marks rarely appear, if they appear at all, in English-language publications.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 20:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: :Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.
====Survey - in support of the move====
# Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: # Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in support of the move

message: #Oppose.  WP:UE doesn't apply here since Chữ Nôm is not English anyway.  (The English would be southern script).  And the Vietnamese alphabet is a form of the Latin alphabet with diacritics (like with French or Hungarian) that Wikipedia freely uses in article titles. —  AjaxSmack    02:04, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in opposition to the move

message: Just a comment - editors interested in this move request might also be interested in the same move request at Talk:Hán Tự.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what should become of this. I suggest avoiding the use of diacritics that indicate tone; other diacritics might be acceptable. Should the result be Chư Nôm? Chu Nôm? Or, simply, Chu Nom?—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 20:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest we use "Chu Nom".  Diacritics are rarely used in English, and article titles ought to be in English.  The diacritics can be indicated in the article itself.  And one issue I also wonder about is, if a reader or editor does not have Vietnamese-language support on his or her computer, what does he see?  My own computers have it, so I see it normally.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 20:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have used the "what if a reader doesn't have Unicode support" argument to argue that Māori language, a legitimate English word, should not have a macron in the title but was assured that I was an idiot to argue such (Talk:Māori_language#Requested_move).  And here, Hán Tự doesn't meet the threshold of English; that would be "Chinese character."  —  AjaxSmack    19:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually that was not an argument, but a genuine concern.  I honestly do not know how Vietnamese tone marks show up on someone's computer if he does not have Vietnamese language support.  Anyway, I would argue that Hán Tự and Chữ Nôm both would fall under the "use English" naming convention in that these tone marks rarely appear, if they appear at all, in English-language publications.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 20:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: Does the article give the total number of Chữ Nôm characters? It would be very good to list the total number of Chữ Nôm (including the total number of invented and borrowed characters). Badagnani (talk) 03:57, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of characters 

message: I remember clearly reading a Vietnamese literature book by Vietnamese literary scholar Nguyen Dinh Hoa which mentioned claims that Chu nom dates back at least to the 11th century (or 10th)..not 13th century as this article claims.  Is there any online proof?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.190.22.152 (talk) 19:08, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflicting information 

message: I'm one of the admin in a facebook group called "東亞文化圈/东亚文化圈 · 동아시아 문화권 · Khu vực văn hóa Đông Á · 東アジア文化圏"
http://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_113132062091537&ap=1
We have a lot people who know Korean/Japanese/Chinese (Cantonese + Mandarin) and Vietnamese (Chu Nom + Chu Quoc Ngu  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.188.251.244 (talk) 23:25, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support "Chu Nom" 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Han tu which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 03:15, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: 1. I have created the  template that does two things: it applies the  template on Nôm text marking its language vi-hani and also applies the style font-family:'Nom Na Tong','NomNaTong','HAN NOM A','HANNOM-A','HAN NOM B','HANNOM-B',sans-serif;. It should now be sufficient to have a Nôm font installed. Thank you, Kauffner, for pointing to and insisting on the necessity of the latter. — Should you know other Nôm fonts, please alter the template accordingly and/or leave a note on this page.
2. I have also created the  template. At this point it has no effect at all, but hopefully soon it will look like the  template. It shall tell the readers to install at least one of several font families to view Nôm text properly. I don’t have the time to write it now. Well, the early bird gets the worm, and maybe that bird is you.
3. I have replaced all instances of {​{​lang|vi-hani|...​}​} in the article Chữ nôm with {​{​vi-nom|...​}​} and put the  template at the top of the page. Please check the results and leave a report and your criticism on this talk page.
4. If everything works fine the next step will be to find all articles containing Nôm text and mark it with the  template. Please never forget to put the  template at the top of the page when you use the  template. LiliCharlie  — Preceding unsigned comment added by LiliCharlie (talk • contribs) 22:17, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  New templates for Nôm script 

message: There is a merge discussion at Talk:Chữ Hán concerning new article creation Han-Nom which duplicates topic of  longstanding Hán and Nôm articles (more Chữ nôm than Chữ Hán). The merge tag placed by BabelStone was removed again counter discussion on ANI the last time it was removed. Seems as good a time as any to proceed with the merge. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:09, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: See merge discussion at [[Talk:Chữ Hán]] 

message: Should the merger of any usable non-duplicate content from the new Han Nom article into Chữ nôm be implemented? In ictu oculi (talk) 10:58, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This a completely reasonable objection by Gaijin42, was simply making use of the RfC mechanism to pull in perhaps 1 or 2 new eyes. RfC in linguistics has a small pull and worth leaving 48 hours to at least get the benefit of additional input. However if Gaijin42, BabelStone, Itsmejudith or Kanguole want to initiate the merge then disregard this RfC, as Gaijin42 says, it adds nothing. Just know of no other mechanism. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:42, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I redirected. If the original author thinks there is anything that needs to be merged, they may do so. Gaijin42 (talk) 14:13, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that makes sense. Thanks User:Gaijin42, I withdraw RfC as redundant. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:11, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC: Should the merger of the new [[Han Nom]] article into [[Chữ nôm]] be implemented?

message: procedural objection this RFC is in effect a "do-over" of the merge discussion, which had consensus. Someone just needs to do the merge. As 99% of the content is duplicate, a redirect does most of the work, and someone can find the few pieces of unique information at their own pace.. Gaijin42 (talk) 13:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This a completely reasonable objection by Gaijin42, was simply making use of the RfC mechanism to pull in perhaps 1 or 2 new eyes. RfC in linguistics has a small pull and worth leaving 48 hours to at least get the benefit of additional input. However if Gaijin42, BabelStone, Itsmejudith or Kanguole want to initiate the merge then disregard this RfC, as Gaijin42 says, it adds nothing. Just know of no other mechanism. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:42, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I redirected. If the original author thinks there is anything that needs to be merged, they may do so. Gaijin42 (talk) 14:13, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that makes sense. Thanks User:Gaijin42, I withdraw RfC as redundant. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:11, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Threaded discussion

message: It seems rather odd to have a section on syntax in an article on a script.  That is really a property of the Vietnamese and Chinese languages, rather than the scripts.  Maybe it would fit better in an article about Vietnamese literature or Vietnamese names?  Kanguole 11:37, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Syntax? 

message: I have created and uploaded two SVG images.
old:    
new1:    
new2: 
Is new1 or new2 more suitable to replace the old PNG image?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by LiliCharlie (talk • contribs) 08:15, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  vector images (SVGs) to replace bitmap "Chu Han - chu Nho - Han tu.png" 

message: === DICTIONNAIRES graimmares Annamite ===
http://books.google.com/books?id=H7s_AAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=nUNAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=m40yAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=gsXlAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=B-QNAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=yYMvAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
=== Dialogues cochinchinois ===
http://books.google.com/books?id=eI80AQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Dialogues cochinchinois: expliqués littéralement en français, en anglais et en latin, suivis d'une étude philologique du texte et d'un exposé des monnaies, poids, mesures et divisions du temps en usage dans la Cochinchine
Author	Abel Des Michels
Publisher	Maisonneuve, 1871
Original from	the University of California
Digitized	Jul 15, 2010
Length	212 pages
http://ecrivn.free.fr/fr/part1/alphabetiques/adr-dico3.html
=== Grammaire annamite, vocabulaire français-annamite et annamite-français  ===
http://books.google.com/books?id=PKQTAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Grammaire annamite, suivie d'un vocabulaire français-annamite et annamite-français
Author	Louis Gabriel G. Aubaret
Published	1867
Original from	Oxford University
Digitized	May 12, 2008
 	 
http://books.google.com/books?id=z3ULAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Nouveau vocabulaire français-tonkinois et tonkinois-français
Author	Paul Émile Emmanuel Auguste Crépin Bourdier de Beauregard
Publisher	A. Challamel, 1900
Original from	the University of Michigan
Digitized	Aug 31, 2006
Length	192 pages
http://books.google.com/books?id=nWg4AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Manuel de conversation franco-tonkinois: sách dã̂n đàng nói truyện bà̆ng tié̂ng phalangsa và tié̂ng annam
Author	Cõ Ân
Publisher	Imprimerie de la Mission, 1889
Original from	the University of Michigan
Digitized	Jun 25, 2007
Length	452 pages
http://books.google.com/books?id=k51rAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Manuel franco-tonkinois de conversation spécialement à l'usage du médecin: précédé d'un exposé des règles de l'intonation et de la prononciation annamites
Author	Paul Gouzien
Publisher	A. Challamel, 1897
Original from	the University of California
Digitized	Feb 11, 2008
Length	174 pages
http://books.google.com/books?id=gsXlAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Grammaire de la langue annamite
Author	Louis Gabriel Galdéric Aubaret
Publisher	Imprimerie impériale, 1864
Original from	the University of Michigan
Digitized	Oct 20, 2009
Length	112 pages
http://books.google.com/books?id=HdQuAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Lexique franco-annamite
Authors	H. Ravier, J. B. Dronet
Publisher	Imprimerie de la mission, 1903
Original from	Harvard University
Digitized	Oct 16, 2008
Length	534 pages
http://books.google.com/books?id=8aYTAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Notions pour servir à l'étude de la langue annamite [by] J.M.J.
Authors	J M. J, Langue annamite
Publisher	Imprimerie de la Mission, 1878
Original from	Oxford University
Digitized	May 12, 2008
http://books.google.com/books?id=2kg0AQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Petit dictionnaire Français-Annamite
Western books on Asia: Southeast Asia
Authors	J. B. Petrus Trư-ơ-ng-Vinh-Ký, Pétrus Jean-Baptiste Vĩnh Ký Trương
Publisher	Imp. de la Mission, à Tân-Dịnh, 1885
Original from	the University of Wisconsin - Madison
Digitized	Jul 30, 2012
Length	1192 pages
Subjects	French language
http://books.google.com/books?id=QcMVAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Nam ngử thích tây tổng ước
Author	J.-F.-M. Génibrel
Edition	2
Publisher	Imprimerie de la Mission à Tân-Dịnh, 1906
Original from	Harvard University
Digitized	Feb 21, 2008
Length	812 pages
Subjects	Vietnamese language
http://books.google.com/books?id=1i5kAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Dictionnaire annamite
Author	Tịnh Paulus Của Huình
Edition	reprint
Publisher	Khai Trí, 1895
Original from	the University of Michigan
Digitized	May 14, 2008
Subjects	Vietnamese language
http://books.google.com/books?id=iMMuAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Tự vị Annam-Pha lang sa
Author	J. M. J.
Publisher	Imprimerie de la Mission, 1877
Original from	Harvard University
Digitized	Oct 16, 2008
Length	916 pages
Subjects	Foreign Language Study › Southeast Asian Languages
=== Dictionnaire annamite-français, comprenant: 10 tous les caractères de la langue annamite vulgaire, avec l'indication de leurs divers sena propres ou figurés, et justifies par de nombreux exemples; 20 les caractères chinois nécessaires à l'étude des Tú Thu, ou Quatre livres classiques chinois; 30 la flore et la faune de l'Indo-Chine By J. F. M. Génibrel ===
http://books.google.com/books?id=IcMuAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title	Dictionnaire annamite-français, comprenant: 10 tous les caractères de la langue annamite vulgaire, avec l'indication de leurs divers sena propres ou figurés, et justifies par de nombreux exemples; 20 les caractères chinois nécessaires à l'étude des Tú Thu, ou Quatre livres classiques chinois; 30 ...
Author	J. F. M. Génibrel
Edition	2
Publisher	la mission à Tan Diny, 1898
Original from	Harvard University
Digitized	Oct 16, 2008
Length	987 pages
Subjects	Vietnamese language
=== dictionnaires et des grammaires Annamite ===
Dictionnaire annamite-français
https://archive.org/details/DictionnaireAnnamiteFrancais
https://archive.org/details/DictionnaireAnnamiteFranais2
https://archive.org/details/DictionnaireAnnamiteFranais1
Dictionnaire annamite-français : (langue officielle et langue vulgaire) 
https://archive.org/details/dictionnaireanna01bone
https://archive.org/details/dictionnaireanna02bone
Dictionnaire Franco-tonkinois
https://archive.org/details/DictionnaireFranco-tonkinois
https://archive.org/details/manuelfrancoton00gouzgoog
Phonétique annamite (dialecte du Haut-Annam) 
https://archive.org/details/phontiqueannami00unkngoog
A dissertation on the nature and character of the Chinese system of writing : in a letter to John Vaughan, Esq (includes Vietnamese dictionary)
https://archive.org/details/dissertationnatu00duporich
Les Égyptiens préhistoriques identifiés avec les Annamites d'après les inscriptions hiéroglyphiques (1905)
https://archive.org/details/lesgyptiensprhi00freygoog
https://archive.org/details/lesgyptienspr00frey
Rajmaan (talk) 09:14, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  bilingual Vietnamese dictionaries in Chu Nom and Quoc Ngu 

message: Dictionnaire annamite-français
https://archive.org/details/DictionnaireAnnamiteFrancais
https://archive.org/details/DictionnaireAnnamiteFranais2
https://archive.org/details/DictionnaireAnnamiteFranais1
Dictionnaire annamite-français : (langue officielle et langue vulgaire) 
https://archive.org/details/dictionnaireanna01bone
https://archive.org/details/dictionnaireanna02bone
Dictionnaire Franco-tonkinois
https://archive.org/details/DictionnaireFranco-tonkinois
https://archive.org/details/manuelfrancoton00gouzgoog
Phonétique annamite (dialecte du Haut-Annam) 
https://archive.org/details/phontiqueannami00unkngoog
A dissertation on the nature and character of the Chinese system of writing : in a letter to John Vaughan, Esq (includes Vietnamese dictionary)
https://archive.org/details/dissertationnatu00duporich
Les Égyptiens préhistoriques identifiés avec les Annamites d'après les inscriptions hiéroglyphiques (1905)
https://archive.org/details/lesgyptiensprhi00freygoog
https://archive.org/details/lesgyptienspr00frey
Rajmaan (talk) 09:14, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  dictionnaires et des grammaires Annamite 

message: Out of interest; :simple:Sino-Vietnamese characters. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:24, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Recreation of deleted article on simple.wikipedia

message: A few users insist that the word "Nôm" in "chữ Nôm" means "chattering". That's not correct. The error lies in confusing the ideas of character and word. In Chinese, the character 喃 is usually used to represent the word nam/nan "chattering", "murmuring". However, in the case of 字喃, the character 喃 is used phonetically to represent the Vietnamese word Nôm (i.e. Vietnam), not the Chinese word "chattering" (I don't think this Chinese word has been borrowed into Vietnamese). The term "chữ Nôm" ("Vietnamese script") is indeed used in contrast to the term "chữ Nho" ("Chinese script"). A comparison of the two terms make the meaning of "Nôm" clear. Hope the explanation make sense. Cheers.--K.C. Tang (talk) 09:38, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The word nôm in Vietnamese doesn't mean "chattering". In fact it's a bound morpheme which only occurs in a few compounds like chữ Nôm (according to my Vietnamese-Chinese dictionary, pls correct me if I'm wrong). The original meaning of this morpheme seems uncertain and controversial, so I think the best way to go is simply avoid the "lit." part.--K.C. Tang (talk) 04:40, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, what word a character represents can only be determined by the context. That's an important principle in Chinese philology. The word "south" can well be represented by 喃 or many other characters. But that's another story. Cheers.--K.C. Tang (talk) 04:47, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Should be "chữ nôm Nhật" and "chữ nôm Triều", where "chữ nôm" refers to native characters coined in Japan and Korea (in contrast to those borrowed from China.)--K.C. Tang (talk) 12:15, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It could be that this is one of those "obsolete" Chinese words (Wiktionary carries many; Kangxi Dictionary sure helped them). I mean, the compound doesn't make sense the way it stands, but I doubt it's a transliteration if they were using the Chinese script to begin with... ★Dasani★ 01:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of the word "nôm" 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Chữ Nôm. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130626064515/http://staging.nomfoundation.org/taberd/ to http://staging.nomfoundation.org/taberd/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130616023959/http://www.chunom.org/charsets/ to http://www.chunom.org/charsets/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130403084625/http://nlv.gov.vn/ef/en/han-nom-collection.html to http://nlv.gov.vn/ef/en/han-nom-collection.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060505105548/http://www.viethoc.com/hannom/tdnom_chidan.php to http://viethoc.com/hannom/tdnom_chidan.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060505105536/http://www.viethoc.com/hannom/bango_intro.php to http://viethoc.com/hannom/bango_intro.php
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:36, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have reverted the addition of Chữ Hán throughout the article, because (a) it is not a common term in English, and (b) its use conflated two different things: Chinese characters and the Classical Chinese language written with those characters.  I have also deleted the non-sensical sentence:
:Speakers of Proto-Việt-Mường (Vietic) languages managed to preserve them, while enhancing them mostly with borrowings from Chinese, thus created the Sino-Vietnamese adaption of classic Chinese, also known as Chữ Hán.
This is cited to Kiernan (2017), with a link pointing to page 264, but there is nothing similar on that page. The nearest I could find was a passage on page 138, but that is about spoken Vietnamese, not the script. Kanguole 14:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chữ Hán 

message: It seems inappropriate to have a syntax section in an article on a script. Certainly Chinese and Vietnamese have different word orders, but that is an aspect of the languages, not the scripts. Kanguole 10:36, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I have removed that section. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 13:55, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Syntax? 

message: The last paragraph of the Standardization section deals with the Han-Nom Revival Committee of Vietnam. Is there any independent coverage of this? If not, perhaps it belongs in External links.
Also, I have no idea what "Vietnamese-made Sino-Vietnamese words" are. Kanguole 17:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder if that committee still exists and has a URL we could link to. If their Vietnamese name is / and  can be trusted their URL used to be www.cjkvbbs.org/hannom/, but I get a "404 Not Found" error for that URL. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 19:01, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  http://www.hannom-rcv.org/ still works.  Kanguole 19:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  We already have a link to that URL and another one to the fonts subpage of www.hannom-rcv.org. — In fact I fail to understand how the committee "has started its standardization work for Chữ Hán Nôm." Isn't the Nôm Preservation Foundation the IRG member that is responsible for the standardisation of Vietnamese Han characters, especially, but not restricted to, their encoding? Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 19:40, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

text:  Plus the Han-Nom Revival Committee of Vietnam seems to be a group of no more than 11 individuals. That doesn't speak for encyclopaedic notability. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 19:49, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, I'll just delete the paragraph then.  Kanguole 19:55, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Han-Nom Revival Committee of Vietnam 

message: The sentence
:It borrowed characters from the Chinese script to transcribe Vietnamese language, while new characters were created on the Chinese model to represent other words in two different ways.
is inaccurate.  It uses phrases from Li (2020) too closely, but still manages to mangle what she says.  She says borrowed characters were used in at least two different ways, and in addition there were a large number of created characters, i.e. what the former text said.
In any case, Li (2020) is a tertiary source on this topic, based on the surveys of Nguyễn (1984) and DeFrancis (1977).  It would be better to use them directly.  Kanguole 09:52, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Description of Nom