Talk:Sake

message: "The history of sake can be traced back to the 3rd century in Japan." Where does this date come from? The oldest Japanese documents go back to the 8th century. Is this date from the Wei Zhi, a 3rd-century Chinese history that includes a section on Japan? If so, please add some sort of reference to it. 
Sake in Japan is older then 300 BC. Sake doesn’t mean rice wine, which is also a wrong translation since wine is made out of grapes.  
(Freddy): Wine, I believe, can be made from a variety of other fruits, not just grapes.
Sake written with the Chinese character Jiu which comes from alcohol. So Sake means alcohol. Kuchikami Sake is mouth chewing Sake. It didn’t need to be made of rice and existed already 2000 BC in Japan. Sake made of rice started in the Yayoi period around 300 BC. Sake brewing started around 700, but there are some indications that there has been Sake brewed more early.
<Freddy>
20060901
 "In the Heian period, sake was used for religious ceremonies, court festivals, and drinking games.[6][page needed]"
-> I have no idea how to edit and cite Wikipedia articles, but it's page 147-148 of the book. Just checked it. Morris, Ivan, The World of the Shining Prince. Court Life in Ancient Japan. New York 1964, pp. 147-148. Could anybody add it please? Thank you.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:D7:8BDA:A300:DCAE:3926:79BA:9DED (talk) 18:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: I read the following paragraph 4 times and its meaning still eludes me.  Maybe somebody who understands what it's saying better than I do can fix it:
"When World War II erupted, the sake-brewing industry was dealt a hefty blow as the government clamped down on the use of rice for brewing. Most of the rice grown during this time was used for the war effort, and this, in conjunction with many other problems, was the doom for thousands of breweries all over Japan. Previously, it had been discovered that small amounts of alcohol could be added to sake to improve aroma and texture. But by government decree, pure alcohol and glucose were added to small quantities of rice mash, increasing the yield by as much as four times. 95% of today's sake is made using this technique, left over from the war years. There were even a few breweries that were able to produce "sake" that contained no rice at all. Naturally, the quality of sake during this time suffered greatly."
I'm ok with this up to the word "Previously", then it goes all muddy.
</Freddy>
Freddy, some reference for you at http://www.metmuseum.org This is about when rice cultivation was introduced in Japan. Wine is officially only made with grapes. So you may call something plum wine, rice wine and so on. It still doesn´t mean it´s wine. Hope I answered your questions Sake-simon 00:01, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  

message: That second paragraph about the distinction in brewing beer, wine, and sake is total bullshit. Even if it had references and was clear, a more succinct exploration of sake's etymology in the intro would be sufficient. 
---  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.16.3.184 (talk) 18:11, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Comments 

message: "As with other alcohol in Japan, sake is poured with the palm of the hand facing down and the back of the hand facing up, particularly when it is poured for another person. Pouring with the palm of the hand facing up is considered rude and is likely to elicit surprise and disapproval."
This sentence seems a little odd to me. It reads like there is a special way to hold a sake bottle/flask yet when I try to act it out it is the same as holding any other bottle/flask anywhere in the world. And apperantly the rude method would not be just that, but extremely clumsy as well. So either I'm missreading this, the sentence isn't properly formulated or the importance is overrated. Any ideas? --Jimius 15:50, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ---

message: Since rice wine is referred to by its Japanese name (sake) in English, this subject is dealt with at the location Sake.  However, this linguistic fact shouldn't blind us to the wider cultural fact that sake is part of the culture in other East Asian countries.  I say we should expand the article by adding details of sake drinking in China at the very least.  And how about info on sake sales internationally?  Is much of it imported into Europe and America?  — Chameleon 13:03, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I see that Chinese wine already has some information (though that article deals with non-rice-based drinks too).  — Chameleon 13:32, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

text: left|thumb Thai Sake, Shinobu brand, made in Samut Sakhon Province, Thailand, distributed nationally Pawyilee 18:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More than Japan 

message: Why does the lack of hops make it more like "rice ale"?  Most ales are hopped and some (IPA's, American Pale) are heavily hopped with both bittering and aromatic hops.   -Jacksjb
:I guess someone was observing that up to the 1500's, beer had hops, ale did not.  Nowadays most ales are hopped so this distinction really doesn't matter.  I originally added the comparison between sake and beer with the intention of fighting the "rice wine" myth.  A comparison to either beer or ale will work equally well, perhaps beverage purists will prefer the ale comparison.  Personally I don't think it matters. The Crow 15:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rice ale 

message: re: the paragraph that begins:
:"As with other alcohol in Japan, sake is poured with the palm of the hand facing down..."
I am interested in further details of this, or a wikilink it it's explained elsewhere, or a citation or something. --Quiddity 01:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serving of sake 

message: Doesnt mean distilled spirit, because that would include vodka, etc.  Shochu only includes distilled beverages produced by koji saccrification.  10:05, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: what are you referring to?  I am not sure what you are talking about so it is hard to make a  specific response, but sake can refer to vodka, gin, etc.Naerhu 05:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shochu 

message: This article contains a lot of information about brewing, however it is all scattered throughout the article.  I have created a brewing section to explain the basic brewing process, and leaving the details of variations and history to other parts of the article.  I expect it should be expanded and refined.  The Crow 00:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A good idea Sake-simon 00:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brewing 

message: http://www.kippo.or.jp/culture_e/syoku/sakejijo/sakejijo1.html
I cited this source in the Kansai region article, but it might be appropriate here.  It's about sake production in Japan, particularly in the Kansai area, but also touches on other issues. -- Exitmoose 02:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Useful reference about current production in Kansai

message: COuld someone add what the normal range of alcohol by colume is for sake. There is a myth that it is highly potent, but my friend NAtsumi told me it is actually light compared to AMerican liquors. Any knowledge? Basejumper 13:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From Wikipedia article on Rice Wine:
Unlike wine, which is made by fermentation of naturally sweet grapes and other fruit, rice "wine" results from the fermentation of rice starch converted to sugars. This process is akin to that used to produce beer; however, beer production employs a mashing process to convert starch to sugars whereas rice wine uses the different amylolytic process.
Rice brew typically has a higher alcohol content (18-25%) than wine (10-20%), which in turn has a higher alcohol content than beer (3-8%).
Sake is therefore one of the strongest undistilled alchoholic drinks, but not nearly as stong as drinks made through distillation like vodka or scotch. 71.184.105.86 (talk) 20:08, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Alcohol Quantity by Volume

message: Is this confusing and poorly written or am I just very tired? Does anyone want to clean this up?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.175.193 (talk) 08:14, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Mature

message: Under doburoku the page mentions that homebrewing is illegal in Japan but a citation is not given. My Japanese friends have told me mixed things about the legality of homebrewing, the laws may even depend on the locality. I think this should be removed unless a clear citation can be found. --HitoriTabi (talk) 08:14, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Variaties

message: "Sake is often referred to in English-speaking countries as a form of rice wine. However, unlike wine, in which alcohol is produced by fermenting the sugar naturally present in grapes, sake is produced by means of a brewing process more like that of beer. Thus it is more like rice beer than rice wine."
I changed "sake is produced by" to "rice wines are produced by", because the wording seems to falsely imply that sake isn't a rice wine, or that other rice wines aren't similar. But 'Phoenix7777' undid my edit with no explanation, and if I redo it he'll probably undo it again. So I'm putting this here instead. LieAfterLie (talk) 12:06, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The statement isn't implying anything at all.  It is clearly stating that sake is more like a beer than a wine, and why.  It's true and if you understand the explanation, I don't see how you can disagree.--Taylornate (talk) 13:49, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The distinction is between wine and rice wines, not sake and rice wines, as it is a normal rice wine. Saying 'it is often referred to as rice wine, however' seems to falsely imply that it isn't a rice wine. It just wasn't worded well at all, and I tried to clean it up. LieAfterLie (talk) 16:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

text: After looking at the article Rice wine, it seems that LieAfterLie is right. This article says rice wine, like sake, is made using a process similar to brewing beer.  Confusion reigns, however, as I note that Rice beer redirects to Sake. Wahrmund (talk) 19:27, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: See, I totally wasn't lying. Plus I imagine they're named after their alcohol content rather than production process, which is more relevant for the uninformed consumer. They do have three times the alcohol of beer, even somewhat more than wine. LieAfterLie (talk) 02:34, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

text: I changed the "Rice beer" redirection to "Rice wine." Wahrmund (talk) 16:16, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever we do, I don't see why we shouldn't include something about the term rice wine being a misnomer.--Taylornate (talk) 17:14, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Its not wine nor beer, period! Its sake! 94.63.82.69 (talk) 23:11, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sake is a rice wine/brew 

message: I'll be doing an addition to the Water section beginning with wanted and unwanted minerals.  The claim that most urban breweries import their water I think should be removed.  If needed breweries can filter out unwanted components like iron and add nutrients that aid in fermentation. More info on that here http://www.sake-world.com/html/water.html.  I'm not saying there isn't a brewery out there that brings in water from offsite, but for most that would be prohibitively expensive.
Also there is a great history about how the Nada ward of Kobe, Hyogo first built a reputation on quality water and became a major production hub.  I'll post some references on that if anyone wants to help build that out.  Mrbenbell (talk) 15:29, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Water 

message: A new contributor, User:Hellafeino, attempted to edit a section of the article, though it was improperly formatted, and possibly opinion. I reverted the good faith edit, and invite User:Hellafeino to come here and explain the type of change to be implemented, its significance, and the reliability of the source. Boneyard90 (talk) 20:30, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit by User:Hellafeino 

message: i noticed the history section reads a bit like some sort of essay with words like astonishingly and the general way it reads also this line seems very passive agressive
Although these things are true, the government also wanted more tax money from breweries, as using wooden barrels means that a significant amount of sake is lost to evaporation (somewhere around 3%), which could have otherwise been taxed Tuypo1 (talk) 10:53, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  history section reads like an essay 

message: This should be removed. I have a BA in Japanese Language and Literature and lived in Japan. Never seen this word in my life. Sake is called..."sake". Or "o-sake" by girls.184.155.130.147 (talk) 22:47, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  " nihonshu"? 

message: Many people have studied Japanese and lived in Japan but that doesn't mean you're an expert on the topic however well meaning you may be.  Sake means "alcohol" but "nihonshu" is rice beer.  Foreigners have misused the term.  Ask John Gautner.  http://sake-world.com/wordpress/?author=2
96.233.107.140 (talk) 23:11, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes nihonshu. But "shu" is not used on its own much, being an onyomi reading, its found only in compounds (eg nihonshu, umeshu etc). The usual reading as a word is the kunyomi "sake" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeimusu (talk • contribs) 09:56, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

text: @96.233.107.140 what about seishu? 小劍611611 (talk) 09:24, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "yes, it's nihonshu" 

message: Why does this article make it seem sake is from Japan? There are MANY nations that drink this and it is indigenous to. In fact, Japan copied this from China. Biased much? Article needs a total overhaul....184.155.130.147 (talk) 22:51, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the article is about sake, also known as nihonshu, a particular style of fermented rice, typical of Japan. In the same way, the article on huangjiu concerns a beverage made in China, and Makgeolli to one made in Korea. The Japanese product is distinctive enough to have its own article. In Japanese both huangjiu, Makgeolli, as well as wine and beer could be described as sake, but this article is in English and in English sake means "a Japanese fermented, mildly alcoholic beverage made from rice.",  Zeimusu | Talk page 09:50, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is this about Japan? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Sake. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110805132349/http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200911060122.html to http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200911060122.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 14:24, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Source 17, regarding the taste of sake, goes to a deleted page.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.195.230.136 (talk) 04:01, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 20:51, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 17 

message: — Assignment last updated by Bh2471 (talk) 05:43, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - FA22 - Sect 201 - Thu