Talk:Meat alternative

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message: The title here is from industry jargon rather than from a common term and I propose it be changed to a common term in common usage. I have been looking for references using this term "meat analogue" and most references to be found are in food processing magazines and other similar sources and food industry blogs. A search of news articles that include the term "meat analogue" on Google returns 979 results compared to "plant-based meat" with a return of 139,000 results and "vegan meat" with returning 21,900 results. I have never heard the phrasing in speech and I then suspect this article may have been created by a food industry person with high level knowledge of the industry. I propose it be changed to plant-based meat. BrikDuk (talk) 16:46, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that "plant-based meat" might confuse readers. Meat is defined as flesh from an animal and analogue is defined as something that is similar or comparable to something else. So you can see why the term was created. The lead already lists the term plant-based meat with "vegan meat, meat substitute, mock meat, meat alternative, imitation meat, or vegetarian meat, or, sometimes more pejoratively, fake meat or faux meat.". This review uses the term "plant‐based meat alternatives" (PBMAs)  although the term meat analogue has been used in medical literature going back at least to the 1980s see this for an overview  and a recent paper . I think this boils down to a semantics dispute from different countries. The term "meat substitute" has also been used in the literature in America going back many years. The term "meat analogue" has also been used in Asia  "Meat analogues, also known as meat substitutes or mock meat, is not new to Asia. The introduction of meat analogues emerged in 6th century AD, influenced by the restricted diets of Chinese Buddhism." It will be controversial to suggest a name change but if so a vote should be made. Other users will need to be informed about this so a consensus can be reached. Psychologist Guy (talk) 17:08, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I am confused by the term "analogue meat" as I have never heard someone to say this and it seems from usage patterns as seen online that this is not a term in common usage. "Plant-based meat" appears most well used term but you make a good point and there may be a better term to use. "Meat analogue" is a term that Wikipedia defines as jargon and technical vocabulary . It is inappropriate as the title to an article without an explanation of its technical usage. BrikDuk (talk) 14:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do agree it is not the best term out there. I noticed "meat substitute" gets a lot of hits but that also might confuse some people. It's a tough one. "Plant‐based meat alternatives" has been used in a review. Hopefully other users can weigh in on plant-based meat and if they want the title changed. Psychologist Guy (talk) 16:14, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree and do hope other users comment. The word "analogue" is the confusing word and makes the term jargon to my reading. "Meat substitute" does return 13,300 and "plant‐based meat alternatives" does return 17,600. BrikDuk (talk) 09:58, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that the title "meat analogue" is misleading and thus favor renaming this article. In order of preference, I'd suggest renaming it to "Meat alternatives", "Plant‐based meat", "Plant‐based meat alternatives", or "Meat substitute". The name "Meat alternatives" has the advantage that it includes both plant-based meat and meat alternatives created through fermentation via microorganisms.Ego.Eudaimonia (talk) 09:22, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think meat alternatives is probably better than the other options -- its not Plant-based meat (and in some jurisdictions its actually illegal to describe these things as "meat" in any context). And some of the alternatives are not plants (thinking Quorn in the UK). Sadads (talk) 13:56, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Per this discussion, I've tentatively moved the article to Meat alternative, which seems fairly uncontroversial compared to "meat analogue" which is clunky and surprising. I would actually prefer to call the article Plant-based meat, similar to how Plant milk is titled. This is a common name, in spite of being arguably a misnomer. I don't think this would be a confusing or particularly contentious change, but I figured I should seek out consensus for that first. RoxySaunders (talk · contribs) 21:58, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is the right choice -- again, some of the alternatives are not plants -- and it would be highly inaccurate to do the survey excluding them -- an industry grouping is much more accurate methinks. Also, we are going to seen increasing system of pseudo and engineered meats that most definitely don't make sense under a broader umbrella and if we rename towards plant-based newer editors are more likely to fork unnecessarily, Sadads (talk) 16:38, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Article title jargon not common usage

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