Talk:Religion in Scouting

message: #The sentence on the Promise seems unclear to me. When is it adapted and how? In my association the only used adaption is the cutting off of the religious formula...
#Should we mention the Alternative Promises and the Outlander Promise? Both show a different approach on religion in the younger days of the movement. --jergen 14:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On point 1 - The Scout Association proscribes a number of adaptations for the various faiths. Horus Kol 14:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope you mean prescribes.  Proscribes means forbids. --Erp 22:17, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  hehe - yeah... funny thing, the English language... Horus Kol 09:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Promise 

message: A lot of edits are reverting back and forth between British and American English. Let's pick one and stay with it. Rlevse 14:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, in keeping with the WikiProject standards, since this is global article it should be American English - but you'll have to forgive me if I start in British English when I create new content... Horus Kol 15:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nah, if it's a global article then the regional spelling of the original contributor to the article is generally the one it should stay at. Saying that, switching from one to t'other doesn't really bother me that much, so long as it's done consistently. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 15:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Switiching from one to the other is unstable, causes inconsistencies, and irksome. It should be one or the other. Rlevse 16:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Scouting Project rules are to use the dialect of the country in question and for generic/international articles, to use American dialect. See the project [] page. This was agreed upon a long time ago. Rlevse 20:19, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: British or American version

message: An added link here might be of value: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouts_et_Guides_de_France .  Thus, in France 'Scoutism' seems to have acquired a Roman Catholic connotation. For 'Non-Catholics' in France there is a similar but 'neutral' organisation, 'Eclaireurs': http://www.eclaireurs.org/ 86.138.126.188 15:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  France? 

message: The way the article is shaping up, I'm wondering if we might consider a little restructuring.  It looks like there are two main themes to the subject of "Religion in Scouting": (1) the role of religion and spiritual development in Scouting and the Scout method, and (2) the participation of people of different (or no) faith as members, leaders, etc.  Both of these themes can be considered in each section (Founder's views, historical practice, current interpretations, etc), and can be the starting point for the discussion of a lot of interesting and relevant Scouting subjects.  Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.202.106.49 (talk) 00:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds like a good idea - quite a lot of information has been added since I created the article. I will see about giving it a restructure and inserting sections for those two themes you suggested later on today. Horus Kol 10:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, perhaps, information on prayer at Scouting events, the role of ceremony (both religious and not), external religious organizations involved in Scouting (e.g., the Eastern Orthodox Committee on Scouting) and the integration of Scouting elements into religious events (e.g., presenting a religious award at a church or synagogue service). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.202.106.49 (talk) 12:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Scouts' Own -- Discontinue the use this term for a worship service at camp. Instead, use "outdoor worship service" or "interfaith worship service."The Language of Scouting
The GSUSA have a quite different take. --Erp 02:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Content suggestion

message: #Why isn't everybody in WOSM or WAGGGS? According to , some Scouting organizations are strongly church-focused and some have a Christian-only membership policy.
#There is a division between Scouting organizations in some countries, including France and Denmark, on the basis of religion. --Jagz 15:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested issues for the article 

message: Isn't there a concept in Scouting of those "still seeking" spiritual enlightenment or something to that effect? (Those who may question a higher power than man but who are "still seeking" should not be denied membership in Scouting.) --Jagz 01:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still seeking 

message: Maybe I'm missing something, but the ordering of the headings and sub headings appear illogical.
In section 4, we have the issues as they relate to Scouts/ Guides in several different countries.
Then we continue the list under section 5.2.
Should the sub-sub- headings under 5.2 be moved to section 4, or is my limited understanding of the movement leaving me missing a vital point here? Could someone clarify for me please?WotherspoonSmith 09:08, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  reorganise headings? 

message: I removed the section heading "Historical practice" from the article because the section was empty. --Jagz 02:26, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical practice 

message: I question why LDS-BSA Relationships is not described an international Body.  The LDS Church as more members outside the Untied States then inside.  The LDS-BSA Relationships serves scouting in more then just the US.  It clearly is just as "International" as a "Catholic Conference", even if it doesn't us the word  "International".--ARTEST4ECHO (talk/contribs) 13:27, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In the USA the LDS church is directly involved in sponsoring huge numbers of Scout Groups. I'm not aware that that is that the case elsewhere. HiLo48 (talk) 17:22, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: They use scouting in a number of countries.  See History of Scouting in the Church.  It reads, "We have strong affiliations with the Boy Scouts of America (BSA); Scouts Canada; the Scouting Associations of Australia, New Zealand, and Great Britain; and other associations in Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa. The vast majority of Latter-day Saint Scouting affiliations, however, are in the western and central United States and Canada."--ARTEST4ECHO (talk/contribs) 17:43, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Just like the name of the organization says: LDS-BSA Relationships. The LDS is not the problem. The BSA is not an international organization but a national organisation, so LDS-BSA Relationships is not an international but a national organization. I can't find at the site of the LDS-BSA Relationships any link to other Scouting or Guiding organizations. If there is an international LDS committee on Scouting / Guiding you can add that organization to the list. --Egel Reaction? 18:37, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I found some info.  A reference (but not one I would trust) from 2000  indicated that the LDS had 7% of the troops in Scouts Canada (however this was just after Scouts Canada went fully co-ed in 1998 though a church sponsored troop with theological objections could be single-sex).   Source detailing Scouts Canada position http://www.scoutscan.com/resources/coedqa.html.  I did find an article on a prominent LDS receiving a Scouts Canada award http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/60773/Pres-Monson-receives-Scouts-Canadas-Silver-Fox-Award.html.  Scouting UK also allows for single-sex scouting for religious reasons http://scouts.org.uk/supportresources/1691/campfirecircle but I could find nothing about number of units if any.  So there seems to be something.  --Erp (talk) 04:49, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  [http://ldsbsa.org/ LDS-BSA Relationships]  

message: Egel added it. I removed it with the Edit summary "Removed the 'pioneered' portable alter pic. Hardly a radical idea, no proof it hadn't been done elsewhere, and pretty trivial anyway." Egel put it back, with the Edit summary "image was removed for an irrelevant reason".
Ignoring the fact that I gave THREE reasons,, not just one, it's a pretty insulting Edit summary. My Edit summary gives my views on this, along with the fact that we don't even have any text on activities in France under Current practices, just that odd pic. It has no context, no explanation, and a crappy justification. 
I will remove it again and ask Egel to discuss it here. HiLo48 (talk) 01:18, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Mate, could I suggest you have a tinny and cool off! I support the inclusion of this image. It shows how Scouts use their skills to support religious activities in camp. It does not matter which country it comes from. It does not matter if it has been done elsewhere. It does mot matter if it is not a radical idea. It does not even matter if it trivial. It is a  good image. Your reasons are irrelevant. --Bduke  (Discussion) 09:34, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Bduke, but I will try to add some more context. --Egel Reaction? 09:44, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm wondering if I've misunderstood the use of the word "pioneered". I took it to mean "original", or "a first", of which, of course, there's no evidence, and it's probably not. Maybe it means something to do with making stuff out of wood? True? HiLo48 (talk) 10:18, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes: Pioneering_(Scouting) --Egel Reaction? 10:29, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah well. I've heard of pioneering, but never pioneered, apart from its usage as meaning a first of something. It's not even used in that article the way you used it. HiLo48 (talk) 10:34, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is probably jargon,  and/or South-African/Dutch. Please find a more common description. --Egel Reaction? 11:00, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

text: That might have been reasonable had it been a totally new word, but it wasn't. It was an already existing word with another meaning that fitted just as well in that context, so I had no reason to look for such a connection. HiLo48 (talk) 15:56, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "pioneered portable altar" pic 

message: Membership requirements are really a subset of Current Practices and so we should probably merge the two sections and have all discussion of the BSA in one place, all discussion of the Scouting Association in one place, etc.  Subsection by country and then organization.  Any thoughts before I go ahead? --Erp (talk) 00:27, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge Membership Requirements and Current Practices 

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