Talk:Osama bin Laden/Archive 13

message: Is it possible to post a larger image of Osoma being photograhed at Oxford in 1971? It looks unclear in the article. A larger image would also emphasis the innocence of this individual in the 1970s, compared to his reputation as a terrorist,  currently.  --Siva1979Talk to me 20:18, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Google posts an image of Bin Laden from a Swedish newspaper that has a big face shot . But the biggest image of ubl at oxford these days is 19.5k  Mrdthree 19:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Larger image? 

message: I think it is a great omission that almost no mention is made from the numerous and extensive comments of bin Laden on current affairs since September 11, 2001. Just a link with a double mentioning of doubt on a large number of publications from several sources where has been commented on by both US-presidential candidates is unsufficient. A summary of statements should to be found in this article. Otto 22:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Public statements of Osama bin Laden since 911

message: I found www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/280806binladen.htm this article] to be very informative, and it also has links to other interesting articles. --Striver 00:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting.  I found this other article, one from a reputable source (Wash. Post), even more informative.  Especially this part: Exhaustive government and independent investigations have concluded otherwise, of course, and bin Laden and other al-Qaeda leaders have proudly taken responsibility for the hijackings. FBI officials say the wanted poster merely reflects the government's long-standing practice of relying on actual criminal charges in the notices. But, of course, it is true that everything in the Washington Post should be taken with a grain of salt ( they have such an extensive history of right-wing collusion).  Levi P. 00:49, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the article does talk about the Post article. It claims that it tries to minimize the huge FBI statment that it has no hard evidence conecting OBL with 9/11. --Striver 10:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Interesting article

message: === Military and militant activity section (introduction) ===
It is completely without cites and OBL is only mentioned as involved due to having a half-brother have some unspecificed part of a Mosque seizure.  I don't see that it really adds anything worthwhile in relation to this OBL article and the article itself is too long as it is.  Also, the Soviet 'invasion' is covered immediately following this paragraph.
This is what I propose to be deleted:
::1979 was a pivotal year for Islamic fundamentalism, with three huge events in the Muslim world. Osama bin Laden was connected, at least indirectly, to the latter two of them. First, on January 16, 1979 the Iranian Revolution began with the forced exile of the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, which then brought about the world's first modern Muslim theocracy under the rule of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Second, a half-brother of Osama was implicated in the November 20, 1979 Grand Mosque Seizure at Mecca, in western Saudi Arabia, the holiest site in Islam. The hostage-taking, two week siege, and bloody ending shocked the Muslim world, as hundreds were killed in the ensuing battles and executions. The event was explained as a fundamentalist dissident revolt against the Saudi regime. The Iran hostage crisis had begun only weeks earlier, on November 4, 1979 when a mob of students stormed and seized the U.S. embassy. Immediately following the Mecca event, Iran blamed the U.S., and angry Islamic mobs then burned two more U.S. embassies to the ground, in Islamabad, Pakistan, and at Tripoli, Libya. And then in the third major event of the year, on December 25, 1979 the Soviet Union, attempting to suppress an Islamic rebellion, deployed the 40th Army into Afghanistan, in support of advisers it already had in place there.
REMOVE -- That Guy, From That Show! 19:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: -- That Guy, From That Show! 06:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Straw-polls 

message: It is completely without cites and OBL is only mentioned as involved due to having a half-brother have some unspecificed part of a Mosque seizure.  I don't see that it really adds anything worthwhile in relation to this OBL article and the article itself is too long as it is.  Also, the Soviet 'invasion' is covered immediately following this paragraph.
This is what I propose to be deleted:
::1979 was a pivotal year for Islamic fundamentalism, with three huge events in the Muslim world. Osama bin Laden was connected, at least indirectly, to the latter two of them. First, on January 16, 1979 the Iranian Revolution began with the forced exile of the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, which then brought about the world's first modern Muslim theocracy under the rule of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Second, a half-brother of Osama was implicated in the November 20, 1979 Grand Mosque Seizure at Mecca, in western Saudi Arabia, the holiest site in Islam. The hostage-taking, two week siege, and bloody ending shocked the Muslim world, as hundreds were killed in the ensuing battles and executions. The event was explained as a fundamentalist dissident revolt against the Saudi regime. The Iran hostage crisis had begun only weeks earlier, on November 4, 1979 when a mob of students stormed and seized the U.S. embassy. Immediately following the Mecca event, Iran blamed the U.S., and angry Islamic mobs then burned two more U.S. embassies to the ground, in Islamabad, Pakistan, and at Tripoli, Libya. And then in the third major event of the year, on December 25, 1979 the Soviet Union, attempting to suppress an Islamic rebellion, deployed the 40th Army into Afghanistan, in support of advisers it already had in place there.
REMOVE -- That Guy, From That Show! 19:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: -- That Guy, From That Show! 06:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Military and militant activity'' section (introduction) 

message: September 17, 2001: Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands. In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said:
--Striver 11:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may also wish to note subsequent videos. Andjam 16:53, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: CNN quote

message: Why is he categorized under living, if it's been heavily rumored that he is dead? Ohyeahmormons 02:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you suppose Elvis is categorized as dead, although it's been heavily rumored that he's alive? --Mr. Billion 00:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The blessesd sheik is dead, may Allah give him the promised virgins and camels. He did not release any audio or video in a long time, even though his aide Doctor Zawahiri is regularly shown on Al-Jazeera and CNN TV in 2006. His death is why the USA disbanded the special UBL-hunter unit, but it will not be publicly disclosed until they acquire and desacrate the corpse. Al-Kaida also does not want to announce the emir's death in order to keep good morales among the jihadists. UBL is like Lenin was to the USSR. 195.70.32.136 12:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Because Elvis was verified by doctors as dead? Ohyeahmormons 20:39, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I've added the tag back. It's seriously POV to assume he's alive. You can't prove it. No one can. That's why possibly living people is fitting--it hints he can be alive, it hints he can be dead. Ohyeahmormons 19:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Living? 

message: should be listed, in the top paragraph.
Osama bin Laden
Usama bin Laden
Usama Binladen
Hopiakuta 15:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternative spellings 

message: Can we find a less photogenic image of Mr. Laden for the article header, please? We do not need chicks think this guy is cooler than Brad Pitt. Also, that image was made at least 15 years ago, aging bin Laden already had patchy grey hair and beard in his late 2004 "golden robe" video message. You won't recognize him from this fashion model photo in the street (provided he is still alive which is unlikely). 195.70.32.136 12:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catwalk 

message: Currently, the USS Cole bombing is only mentioned as a See also.  Is this intentional?  It seems to me to be a core part of the discussion of al Qaeda attacks against American interests leading up to 9/11. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 23:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is the Cole bombing given such short shrift 

message: There is no such thing as "caliphate" robes in Islam.  Those robes in the picture are traditional Arab dress that most well-to-do Arabs wear.  The reference should be removed.
: Agreed. I have removed it from the picture. Do not know if it is anywhere else too. --- ابراهيم 20:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  caliphate robes 

message: According to several news sources, Osama died of Typhoid. 70.177.71.206 14:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead 

message: If editing has been disabled, why does the article still show signs of vandalism?  Or is "shit head" considered normal wikipedia vocabulary? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.193.63.155 (talk • contribs) 11:03, 23 September 2006  (UTC)
Never mind -- very weird: I swear I saw "aka shithead" in the middle of the presentation of his full name; then noted it here, and then it was gone instantly afterward. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.193.63.155 (talk • contribs) 11:03, 23 September 2006  (UTC)
:Routine vandalism. I've been watching the person who's been adding it and will take care of things if it happens again. -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 11:09, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The vandalism was there if you look in the history of the article. Vandalism is only turned off for unregistered users. Registered vandals can still make edits, but they get banned more easily than IPs because IPs can change, and thus IP bans might hit people who don't vandalize. It's normal for vandalism to disappear very quickly, typically in less than 5 minutes. Featured articles and such will often have the vandalism removed the same minute it was made.-NorsemanII 13:54, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism concerns 

message: How exactly close might one intelligent and informed person who can reasonably and rationally approximate as correctly as possible in words, and be able to say that our United States President George Bush be to this very day in effect capturing and catching Osama Bin Laden given what is the sheer mass volume and the huge numbers of people and computers and internal and external resources who are working exhaustively around the clock in the past 5 years now to acheiving this objective.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Berniethomas68 21:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Question / Close or Far ?

message: These allegations are very certainly important in this article - as such, they have their own section and are mentioned in the intro.  The media is reporting the death as alleged - until there is a greater degree of certainty than one leaked report, there are not grounds for inserting a date of death.  After all, these media reports are all based on one leak. Anthony.moore 14:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death Allegations 

message: How about photographs. How about the people on the ground. How about millons of computers scientifically working all of the time and boiling down a prospective possible 5 mile likely region that he would be in. What is his present chain of command. What does he do in the morning and the day and the night. Does he have an airplane. Does he have an automobile. How does he access his money. Is he hiding in a cave. Is he with his family. How many guards are protecting him. How does he get around. How is he able to effectively communicate at all if he is infact alive. Has he disguised himself. Does he have a effective and fool proof network of people to provide for his medical needs. Has he released any audio tapes. Has he released any video tapes. Does he take care of himself alone. Or does he have 5 to 10 care takers to look over his health. Is he living underground. Does he have to pass through military check points. How effectively damaged is the infrastructure of his money since The United States froze terrorist assets in these past five years. How about predator drones gathering aerial data. How about military strategists plotting careful maps on his where abouts and narrowing and whittling down the data. How about our soliders on the ground who are tirelessly protecting our freedom and interviewing people over in his neck of the woods. Why has not one peice of reliable and useful data ever come forth concerning his where abouts. It only took about 10 months I think it was to isolate Saddam Hussein. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Berniethomas68 16:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may want to take a look at WP:TPG. A quote from the guideline: "Keep on topic: Talk pages are not for general conversation. Keep discussions on the topic of how to improve the associated article.". ​​​​AuburnPilot​​​​Talk 16:33, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Something is needed to help substantiate and to focus more

message: Why won't anyone entertain the possibility that he is dead? Why haven't we seen him in a video recently? Surely if he was alive he would be filmed mocking the West's attempts to find him.
:I second that. He was on kidney dialysis in 2001. Google "Osama Bin Laden dead". Dhammapal 11:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I third that and think people need to consider it. Of course, some people here are so stubborn that they'll believe whatever they want to believe without thinking it over first. Ohyeahmormons 19:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The kidney dialysis claim is a complete fabrication.  Somewhere in the article it should mention that the claims that he has kidney problems are not supported by any evidence, and in fact there is evidence against such a claim.  See here Osama debunks a myth. -- 70.20.171.79 10:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

text: It better not be true that UBL died of typhoid from contaminated water. That would make jihadists proclaim he died of well poisoning. You know who poisons wells according to old, widespread beliefs... There would be pogroms throughout the islamic/arab world. UBL better be captured or killed in gunfight or by laser-guided bombs. Even a conformation of that would bring terrorist reprisal, but much less than this bad water story. 195.70.32.136 08:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bin Laden Alive?

message: Australian news is also reporting* ;) rumoured death  stating information gathered by the Saudis indicates that the head of Al Qaeda was a victim while he was in Pakistan on August 23, 2006, of a very serious case of typhoid, which led to a partial paralysis of his internal organs.--Golden Wattle  talk 10:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It better not be true that UBL died of typhoid from contaminated water. That would make jihadists proclaim he died of well poisoning. You know who poisons wells according to old, widespread beliefs... There would be pogroms throughout the islamic/arab world. UBL better be captured or killed in gunfight or by laser-guided bombs. Even a conformation of that would bring terrorist reprisal, but much less than this bad water story. 195.70.32.136 08:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumoured death from typhoid

message: I think "Bin Laden" should redirect here, and there should be a link to a disambiguation page on top of this article Black Omnimon 18:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bin Laden

message: Do you believe this article???  "Bin laden peroccupied with Whitney Houston!" & "Bin laden had a copy of playboy magazine in his briefcase" anyone got a better source please inform, otherwise I think it's more bogus than a reality. --Theguys 04:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Verifiability, not truth.  --ElKevbo 18:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: preoccupied