Talk:New York (state)

message: The article currently makes the unsourced claim
:New York, officially the State of New York, is a state in the Northeastern United States. 
But the state's official website uses "New York", "State of New York", and "New York State" almost interchangeably.  If anything, "New York State" is the most common usage, even in the official state logo itself.  I'm editing the article to reflect this.  23:34, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: "[Preamble] WE THE PEOPLE of the State of New York...", from the NYS Constitution..--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 23:48, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: First, that's pure WP:OR based on a primary source that doesn't explicitly support the claim. Second, later that same sentence capitalizes "Freedom", so capitalizing "State" there doesn't mean much; everywhere else the constitution uses "state of New York", "New York state" or just plain "New York", so those three would be at least as "official" by that measure. Taking out the claim of one "official" name was a good edit. Station1 (talk) 08:30, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds like you haven't read enough legal instruments -- articles of incorporation, LLC operating agreements, partnership agreements, constitutions, etc.  Actually, as most attorneys are aware, it is quite rare for an instrument used to constitute a legal entity to repeat the full official name of the entity every time the entity needs to be referred to within the document.  The most important thing is what the document calls the entity at the beginning of the document, which is "the State of New York".  --Coolcaesar (talk) 16:00, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It's quite true that first use in text is most important. That generally holds for non-legal documents as well. That doesn't change the fact that the constitution is a primary source; that it does not explicitly say that New York has an official name (unlike, say, the 1898 NYC charter); that throughout the constitution, as well as most state laws, when it uses the term "state of New York", which is not a shortened form, it does not capitalize the "s", unlike the non-standard capitalization used throughout that first sentence. In short, it's an insufficient source for WP to say "State of New York" is the one and only official name. Station1 (talk) 17:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The Constitution uses a lot of initial caps in that preamble.  It actually reads "We The People of the State of New York".  It's hard to infer from that line that "State of" is the true and official name.  By the Beard of Worf! (talk) 18:40, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Official Name" 

message: The redirect New York (U.S. state has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Utopes (talk / cont) 21:05, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:New York (U.S. state]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: I am motivated to see the FAQ, but I really wanted to start a requested move, but this discourages me to do so, thinking that it may lead to significant opposition. Is there any reason behind the "ambiguous" title and the confusion with New York City? Toadette (Let's discuss together!) 21:52, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure if you read the previous discussions, participants will have voiced a lot of reasons. A big one if that if someone just links to New York, it's unclear whether they meant to link to the state or the city, since they are both commonly called that. So having a disambiguation page there lets that get sorted out. -- Beland (talk) 01:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I will soon start a new discussion. Toadette (Let's discuss together!) 20:03, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shall this title be moved back to [[New York]] 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW closing. There is overwhelming opposition to the proposed move.  BD2412 T 02:08, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: New York (state) →  – Failed RM weeks ago at Talk:New York. I am reinitiating the discussion again as it is not an ambiguous term. Ok with Georgia (state) as there is a country with the same name, but except Washington (state), all U.S. states are just referred to as just <state name> with no disambiguators. If opposing, links to verify the ambiguity with New York City can be provided. Just initiating the discussion which was previously withdrawn. It is also to note that typing "New York" ings the city as the top results so what is the point then. Toadette (Let's discuss together!) 20:12, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

text: Also noting in the FAQ box how is the matter "now fully resolved" after a decade and half? Toadette (Let's discuss together!) 20:15, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

text: Oppose per WP:NOPRIMARY. I would support a WP:NATDIS move to New York State as the official branding  and WP:COMMONNAME . estar8806 (talk) ★ 17:08, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought the official branding was State of New York (which I suggested). Why not use that alternative title? JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 17:59, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Branding is different from legal naming. Legal documents will refer to the "State of New York", while logos, websites, etc. usually use "New York State" or just "New York" (see the source I provided". "New York State" is just more common and concise, and thus makes a better article title. estar8806 (talk) ★ 19:51, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

text: While not the worst choice of title, the parenthetical is used in part for consistency with other ambiguous state names (like Washington (state) and to ease the use of the pipe trick in city, state, constructions. oknazevad (talk) 23:56, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair point. But I would also argue that "Georgia State" more commonly refers to the university than the state, and Washington State is ambiguous. I'm also not sure how many people use "Washington State" or "Georgia State", rather than just using the name of the state. As Washington is the only other state that has "(state)" for disambiguation (Georgia has "(U.S. state)"), preserving consistency with one other article just doesn't feel as important when we bring COMMONNAME into the equation. estar8806 (talk) ★ 18:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: A great reason to use State of New York instead. JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 19:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 24 March 2024 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. Looks like it is WP:SNOWsnowing again. Closing this for almost the same reason as before. (non-admin closure) JuniperChill (talk) 12:19, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: New York (state) →  – Tons of people were in favor of moving the title to such in the two previous RM’s. I don’t see any reason to NOT move the title to such. Who’s in? DirtySocks357(WreckItRalph) (talk) 15:40, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

text: Support per WP:NATDIS. JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 17:55, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Since nobody refers to it as the "State of New York" in conversation or print, I don't see how you think that policy supports this RM. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:10, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: To restate one of my points in the previous discussion, . JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 18:14, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not "unprecedented", but not common either. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:19, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

text: And to restate my rebuttal in the previous discussion, State of Mexico isn't the official name of the state, but the common name for it is a portmanteau of what is literally translated to State of Mexico, so it meets NATDIS, and the State of Vietnam that article refers to no longer exists and so is likely commonly referred to as such to distinguish it from other points in the regions' history --Gimmethegepgun (talk) 10:40, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

text: Oppose ‘Tons of people’ supported this? If there really was tons of support, it’s clearly heavily outweighed by opposition. P sure consensus is set and stone here. It’s okay to be like Juror 8 from Twelve Angry Men and stick out from consensus, but there is no beating consensus. Jason Ingtonn (talk) 03:04, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

text: Oppose - Not remotely the WP:COMMONNAME. Fails WP:NATURAL. Also breaks WP:CONSISTENT with Washington and Georgia. So alas, there are several reasons NOT to move. (It should be mentioned I am still in favor of "New York State"). estar8806 (talk) ★ 04:54, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

text: Oppose per WP:NATURAL and WP:CONSISTENT (see Georgia (U.S. state) and Washington (state)). Keivan.fTalk 06:49, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

text: Oppose as per estar8806 (though I am not in favor of New York State) --Gimmethegepgun (talk) 10:43, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 29 March 2024