Talk:Gothic metal/Archive 5

message: Dante has raised the point of a place having a good reputation among people unaffiliated with something, as being a good source on it. I would like to point out the errors in this.
:: A) All of the sources contradict each other. They all agree on some things, and disagree on others. All of them are openly updated by people who CLAIM speculation. All of them openly are updated by fans with BIASED POV on bands. Also, a source isnt good when it contradicts itself several times, and in itself, admits to being updated mostly by younger fans.
:: B) BNR and Allmusic openly admit to what they write being speculation, and POV. Metal Archives have themselfs said they list bands as what they 'think' they 'should' be playing. Goth-Metal is a fan-site community, openly run by younger fans.
:: C) Dante has chosen to ignore things about the sites, that are mentioned above, because they dont suit his argument. It can also be recorded, that Dante has discredited sources, because they are forums updated by fans, when in itself the sources he provided, are the exact same thing with prettier HTML. 
:: D) I see no reason as to how one fansite which claims speculation, inaccuracy and POV, is accurate over other fan sites, that claim speculation, inaccuracy, and POV, because they dont agree with Dante.
:: E) The sources Dante have provided are not any more reputable than the ones i provided. And as pointed out above, Dante simply discredits them for not sharing his POV. And in the end, this is what the argument has been about, Dante's POV vs factual accuracy.
Im going to continue editing the Temp page, until the article is best it can be. And Dante's argument is no better than mine, he cant criticise someone for the argument of 'so and so told me so', when he is making the exact same argument. Dante needs to help make a better article, and stop clinging to his possesive nature of ownership. ~~Leyasu
: Continue editing it, but that won't change the fact that you continue to make unsourced claims that no one (except you) believes and stands upon. Even Idont havename (who is probably the most patient of you, and that seems to be changing) has pointed out that as long as you make unsourced claims, you just dig yourself deeper into credibility debt.
:Nowhere does it show those sites "openly admit speculation/POV on their page" - that's because they don't. Lies won't help you, they'll just sink you further.--Danteferno 02:14 2 December (UTC)
Alls i have to say to that, is that the user IDont can speak for himself. And if the user in question, has anything to say to me, he will  leave me messages on my talk page, which he has done several times regarding things i needed council on. And again, several times you have said 'Noting/Nowhere', and 'No-one ever', and have been shown as wrong. Stop making claims yourself that are childish and foolish. Your argument isnt coming across as anything intrested in making a good article, its coming far more across as someone who is possesed with the ownership of the original, and trying to force what they want something to be, over what it is. If that is not your intention, i strongly suggest you rethink the way you make your argument. I am stumbling around learning how to improve Articles as i go to their utmost best, and you Dante, have done nothing constructive, nor helpfull, other than seemingly whine, complain and completely bitch that someone has edited an article that you wrote. I reference you to this, that IDont refrenced me to before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ownership_of_articles. ~~Leyasu
:: I don't need to be cited for "Ownership of Articles", because I am obviously not trying to claim ownership of one. Perhaps you should read what that page said again - it will definitely ring close to home based on what you have been doing for nearly a month. --Danteferno 10:51, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictionary Sources 

message: To many bands that have a lead female singer a listed as Gothic Metal bands when in many case they are not Gothic at all. Bands such as Lunatica, Visions of Atlantis, Nightwish, and Edenbridge have never really had any thing to do with Goth Metal at all. A band such as Leaves` Eyes is more Folk Metal then Gothic do to what the songs are about.
:: Please realise that this is the reason for the revision of the article. A revised version is currently located here. If you have any comments on how the revised version could be made better, please state them here. Leyasu 01:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If i missed answering this before, i suggest the person who wrote this looks at the article again. Leyasu 04:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with Gothic Metal 

message: More and more people are now posting, backing up the points i have made several times. As such, i made a final edit to the revised temp (anyone want to copyedit it?) in which ive tried to increase the flow of the article with the layout of the history section, and tried to add a little history of Gothic Doom in there. I also changed a few things, due extra research i did, and based on popular view of some things, as to avoid arguments. I intend at the end of the week, to post the revised edition, unless others have any other reasonable edits to be made to it. If not, due to the increasing number of people complaining, the article having warrented a 'needing attention' label, and the fact this argument has gone on long enough, i will post it on Monday The 19th.
If there is anymore comments and suggestions for the revised version, or editations people would like to make, please do so during this time, so a polished and good prose version of the article can be posted. Leyasu 05:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revised Article