Talk:Logo (programming language)

message: Most of the screen shots in this article seem to be from a copyrighted program. I'm thinking of rerunning the examples in KTurtle and then exporting the graphic. Thus, the images won't have a copyright on them and they will look better because there won't be any window border ect. Let me know what you think. --Mblaze
: I provided most of the illustrations in 2003, many generations of Wiki ago. The copyright statements have changed beyond recognition. To clarify, the screen dumps are my work which I release without copyright. The program used MSWLogo, is the property of George Mills and the Regents of The University of Texas it is released for non commercial use under a GNU Public Licence. It was run under Microsoft Windows 95 and I haven't a clue what the status of Gatesware is, though I suspect that most uploads to Commons is made from a Gatesware machine.
: Now, if you wish to rerun the whole series on a Debian machine - this would be a valuable service, but you need to be careful to choose a full logo program. Cies is very clear that kturtle is not a logo and is intending to move the syntax further away, so there is no misunderstanding. It will not list process, or I believe handle trig functions. If you are looking for a suitable Linux Logo then XLogo http://xlogo.free.fr/telechargements-en.html (GPL), which comes as a jar, might be the most appropriate, or you need to make aUCB, or UCB.(though what is the copyright status of JRE- I don't know.
: It would be helpful if someone was not randomly tagging some images, and deleting others that had the same providence.
: For more information on Logos  or contact me directly.
: ClemRutter 21:16, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyrighted screenshots 

message: "dialect of Lisp" that is wrong. Logo has no relation to Lisp at all. Which you clearly see if you look at an example Logo program.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.3.17.205 (talk) 14:50, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: POV- isbn 978262 581486 Page xvi- "Logo- like lisp is based on the idea of composition of function" Brian Harvey. Brian Harvey wrote the language and the other Lisp derivative Schme.  Please provide references for your POV--ClemRutter (talk) 21:12, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lisp!! No relation to Lisp at all! 

message: Could somebody with a working logo system run the example scripts and upload images of the results?  Populus 00:02, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures please!

message: I came to this article from the Microworlds article.  I am writing a critic of the Microworlds webapp for educational use.  I do not have an programming background and when I came to the bit about the turtle was  quite confused.  Could someone help out us non-programmers and tell us what the devil the turtle is?  Thank you for your attention.
Shongzah 20:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-programmer info 

message: It really bothers me that the Logo examples in this article can't be tried out in 2006 (given that this was easy on an Apple ][ in 1979)! Here's an example of a LogoWiki. The Logo interpreter is in JavaScript so the examples can be run directly and without any reference to a server. When save is pushed, the edits get sent back to a wiki server. This is just a quick demo right now so don't bother to beat on it too much.
(Logowiki appears to have become domain squatted. See below for details)
I'm not sure who added the above.
A recent Dr Dobbs includes an interview with Alan Kay by Andrew Binstock in which Kay refers to Wikipedia and specifically the Logo article: "can you write and execute Logo programs? Are there examples? No. The Wikipedia people didn't even imagine that, in spite of the fact that they're on a computer."  That's a really good point but I'm unaware of any way to achieve it in MediaWiki. --PeterJeremy (talk) 09:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  How About A LogoWiki? -- by Alan Kay 

message: What is with this article and Pascal? On at least 5 occasions, it describes things with respect to "a Pascal programmer", giving examples in Pascal (which is OK), saying when Pascal programmers will "be surprised" and "be familiar" with concepts (this is not OK because it's meant to be for a general audience), and at one point, even describing generic programming concepts of selection and iteration as "the standard Pascal controls". —EatMyShortz 10:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Prolog programmer? 

message: Scoping
 Variables don't have to be declared before use. Their scope is then global. A variable may be declared local, then   
 its scope is limited to that procedure and its subprocedures (a.k.a. dynamic scope). Calling a 'procedure' with  
 'inputs', creates 'local variables' which hold the contents of the parameters.
Sounds more like lexical scoping to me, no? Themania 13:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dynamic scoping? 

message: I have a box of redundant Logo books, I have not entered them in the Bib. as they are no longer current. Why is there a ref to a AtariST Logo- that is not available on line as stated-  does it have anything of relevance to say. If not it should be deleted.ClemRutter 23:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: Am I unkind in suggesting that some of these links have no current value. There remains a lot of dross on the internet that has been forgotten by the authors, and material that mistakes Turtle graphics for LOGO, a link to these sites is unhelpful.
*Thinkquest is not Logo- it uses non standard syxtax.
*Cynthia Solomons page- has some interesting very early photos, but really needs to explain MIT/Berkeley split, Microworlds, BBCMicro, modern developments such as XLogo (french) FMS and the importance of Eurologo, before it is more than a stub- and doesn't yet warrant a link.
*Gary Stagers links are interesting but are tainted by self publicity- I would keep them though. 
*Logowiki is a neat page but falls over when a procedure is defined. It doesn't implement help.
ClemRutter 23:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links 

message: This animation makes the page very slow to load for me. Can it maybe be linked rather than inlined? The Wednesday Island 14:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polar rose animation 

message: * The first implementation was written in LISP on a PDP-1... The goal was basic problem solving; the turtle gave immediate (non-written) feedback so bugs could be spotted... The turtle was a rather late innovation.
How did the turtle give feedback in the first implementation if turtles were
a late innovation?  (The latter is correct; the turtle was developed after
Papert moved from BBN to the MIT AI Lab and started a Logo Lab there.)  I'd
edit the incorrect sentence except that I'm not sure what its intent was,
and I wasn't around in the earliest Logo days. Briankharvey 17:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: This is my first helpme note. I hope I am doing this correctly. I added some data to the Infobox, which made it one line longer. This has caused the Contents table to become rather narrow and ugly looking. I am sorry. I am not sure what to do about this, other than removing the newly added data. Thank you. Jerryobject 10:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's okay. Infoboxes are supposed to be formatted like that. Real96 10:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Table of contents problem

message: A recent revert made by me was in error, apologies for any inconvenience caused. Andrewjd 15:11, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apologies 

message: Seth was right to remove the link as it appears to promote original research. The concept has not been introduced to any of the authorative logo lists and is not an entry in the The Great Logo Atlas- though I suggest that the authors should make contact with both, to further greater understanding. 
Also authors who believe they have a link to add, should read this talk page before posting. 
Looking at their YouTube presentation they definitely have a turtle graphics system that is capable of repetition but it is not obvious whether they have list processing or ways to write procedures (methods).
ClemRutter 15:47, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Turtan

message: I came here via the edits of a vandal, but what he inserted was not removed. I don't have the technical expertise to determine what's going on with this article. Please help. Enigma message 17:19, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inactive article 

message: Good work. But where are the references now? There appears to be a repeat of the 'I must add my favorite distro...' starting. I have long had it in mind that a page should be created  List of Logo implementations, The most of data needed is stored at The Great Logo Atlas- but time and the WP:OR rule prevent me. --ClemRutter (talk) 10:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent Editing

message: Hi I've created Vectoria, an iOS app which uses Touch Turtle Graphics, enabling the creation of patterns without any programming. The reception so far has been fantastic. I'd like to add a link as I feel that Vectoria will help to give Turtle Graphics a whole new lease of life.
Best,
90.192.34.167 (talk) 13:21, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like a nice app, but a link here is not appropriate. Logo is more than turtle graphics- before it could be considered a Logo it would need to run a sizeable subset of UCB Logo, It would need the word, list and array datatypes, global scope and template iteration - yes a tall order. There would be an objection it you personally added a link to what is in effect a commercial product in which you have a financial interest. --ClemRutter (talk) 15:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vectoria 

message: I'm a little confused. How is Logo "used for functional programming?". The link points to the wikipedia article of functional programmers (implying agreement with the description). Nevertheless, Logo does not have referential transparency; there is imperative-style variable assignment and iteration; and program behavior seems to depend very much on order of evaluation.
There are a few functional elements, like recursion, but it wouldn't even qualify as a hybrid in my opinion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Categorically (talk • contribs) 16:55, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  For functional programming? 

message: The sentence starting "The virtual and physical turtles were first used by fifth graders at the " is unclear as it woul,d be more useful if I mentioned the age of the children....  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.193.87.12 (talk) 22:25, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fifth Graders 

message: "a long time ago"?  That's not great.  But editing leads is not something that ip editors can do. --31.96.243.59 (talk) 21:48, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  lead neeeds work 

message: As there are numerous versions of Logo floating around with different primitives and syntax it would be nice if people would qualify their statements with what version they are speaking of.  So far this wiki entry gives the impression that Logo is just a toy language.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.223.19.171 (talk) 09:23, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Versions of Logo 

message: The remark about the Acorn Electron, stating that a version of Logo was issued in 1990 that would have been the "first glimpse most electron users ever saw" of the language, is ridiculous. To put it informally, the Electron was aimed at schoolchildren who used the more expensive BBC Micro at school and wanted something fairly compatible at a cheaper price for home use. Logo - at least the graphics side of it, with TO SPIRAL, LEFT 90, etc. - was heavily featured in UK secondary education using BBC Micros throughout the 1980s, and also in the BBC's computer literacy TV programs. I cannot believe that "most electron users" had not encountered it before 1990. I would correct the statement, except that right now I don't have time to verify the source and date of the Electron version of Logo, or the dates during which the BBC Micro version was promoted in education. Poglad (talk) 10:34, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: From my notes.here  Acornsoft Logo, 1984-1986 , Dead, Acorn BBC micro Acorn Electron ROM. If I recall the most popular Acorn Logo- was Logotron and this (and LSL) would not run on the electron due to limited memory and incompatibility with the model B being more akin to the Model A which never was used. I don't remember a disk drive either. OK over to you.--ClemRutter (talk) 12:41, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acorn Electron 

message: And not a single code sample?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.168.135.1 (talk) 23:28, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: All examples were recently moved to more specific articles like UCBLogo, because each Logo variant has slightly different syntax and capabilities. --IanOsgood (talk) 16:36, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that was counter-intuitive! Helps to explain how a 'FAC' has been reduced to a 'C'. Incidentally the coding samples had been tested on all mainstream Logos- i think in 2008. I suggest a revert is in order.-- Clem Rutter (talk) 07:21, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking and ruminating, it seems that the article lost most of it potency when USBLogo was floated- without giving the essential links. I will try and do a little archaeology and retrieve the essential fragments, and update it to 2016 standards. --ClemRutter (talk) 17:12, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Code sample 

message: Currently this section is a list, with the ones at the end split off into their own sections for some reason. Does anyone object to
# the ones at the end being brought into the list
# the list being reorganised somehow?
Thanks --Northernhenge (talk) 00:22, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I've brought the ones at the end into the list (some time ago), and now split it by decade (which probably needs more work). The 2000s section needs independent references. Potentially each subsection could have a very brief introduction saying how Logo implementations developed in that decade.. --Northernhenge (talk) 14:23, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is a longer list: https://pavel.it.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/logotree/table.html Lars Brinkhoff (talk) 06:01, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Implementations