Talk:Spark plug

message: It is missing some commons problems such as Spark plug well filled with oil Schengen2018 (talk) 14:54, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spark plug well filled with oil problem missing in article 

message: I've been trying to work out what a spark actually *is*, and how much current/voltage is necessary to produce one, and how long current must flow for to effectively ignite fuel+air mixtures... if there's an expert out there - could you perhaps add to this article?
What I *do* know is that different compressions and temperatures change the conditions. 203.206.137.129 20070510
A lot of that information was in the article "reading sparks plugs for racing" but that article was deleted for really lame reasons. You can still find it on wikibooks under the same title.--=Motorhead 22:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See the bottom of this article (mainspace not talk) for a link to Wikibooks:Reading spark plugs for racing.  Samw 03:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article could do with a mention of Paschen's Law and Secondary emission. Whilst I wouldn't want to make the article inaccessible, I came here to find out whether platinium, iridium, or ruthenium electrodes really make any difference to spark voltage, and whether alternative fuel mixtures require them because they are more difficult to spark; these are claims being made by spark plug manufacturers in their marketing material. My initial glance at these two WP articles suggested that the metal surface has no bearing on the breakdown voltage of the gas, but it does alter the number of electrons released when a +ve gas ion bangs into the cathode. Oh, where to find secondary references, though? JBel (talk) 08:45, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Platinum-tipped plugs are as old as spark plugs.  Certainly WWI aircraft were using them. It's not to do with the arcana of surface chemistry, it's just heat resistance.  The hotter  you allow a plug to run, the less trouble there is from oil (and other) deposits fouling it.  Modern designs tend to have avoided this, by better control of insulator performance, by better cooling of cylinder heads (and so the spark plug body, as a heat sink for the insulator) and by better electrical design so that the spark is both more reliable (even if there's fouling) and yet less hot (no more of the old "blowtorch" plugs of the late '80s, trying to fire lean mixtures at high compressions by simply using ridiculous amounts of spark energy).  Mostly though, modern oils, fuels and fuel injection management just don't foul plugs like they used to.  Service intervals which were a 25k replacement a few decades ago are now 75k, with no cleaning and re-gapping needed inbetween. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:48, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: What conditions are needed to produce the spark itself?

message: Would you consider a disc-type spark plug gapper to be simpler or more complicated than keys?  
(Well, it's clearly less accurate)
Both are about the same. The main thing would be to use the wrench to adjust the gap and not be tempted to pry it with the measuring tool.--=Motorhead 21:33, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: disc-type

message: I've taken out the merge template with "spark gap" as these articles are
distinct and do not significantly overlap, even if they use the same picture.  --Wtshymanski 00:03, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed merge

message: It is not true that the tapered seals of some Ford types without washers, need to be tightened to a much greater torque than the more common type (flat with washers).  The required torque is generally less, and it is much more critical that they not be overtightened.
I have the Haynes service manuals for the Fiesta Mark 3 (1989 to 1995), which states the
required torques for the HCS and Zetec (which had tapered seat plugs), and the CVH and PTE types of engine (which I gather did not).  The recommended torque settings for the HCS and Zetec are less than for the other two.
In addition the recommended spark plug torque settings for the first type of Nissan Micra (1983 to Jan 1993), which has plugs with washers, is significantly higher than that for an HCS Fiesta (with tapered seat plugs).
I have had both sorts of vehicle.  On my first Fiesta, (late 1989), I had to take three of the plugs out quite frequently and either clean or replace them, because they fouled up due to the engine burning oil. I always used a torque wrench to install them, and also used a smear of copper grease as an anti-seize compound (which the Haynes manual also suggests).
(I live in Britain, by the way.) Roo60 23:58, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Sealing to the cylinder head" : corrections and additions ...Ford Engines...

message: I found this like via Fark.com 
The first line reads:
Scientists have devised a way to replace spark plugs with laser beams to reduce fuel consumption and emissions.
Also I have heard from a mechanic friend of mine that ford or someone has created an engine without spark plugs using insted a tessla coil like device. --Doom Child 04:13, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Future of the spark 

message: This is incorrect - diesel engines inject diesel into heated compressed air - otherwise they would suffer detonation. This should be amended
:You are correct. Feel free to amend articles as you see fit. If its not accepted it will be changed then you can argue it out with whoever.--=Motorhead 16:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  compression ignition engines compress the fuel/air mix 

message: Misses due to excess plug gap will show up at idle, not at high speed.  At high power output the temperatures, pressures  and fuel/air densities are high enough to *almost* ignite on their own ( ie detonation ). The toughest situation for an ignition system is idle, in other words idle requires the highest voltage to ignite the mixture.  
Back in the day there was such a thing as high speed misses( 30+ years ago ), but this was caused by the points in the distributor bouncing .
As for a wider gap producing a hotter spark... this is irrelevant as any spark is "hot" enough to ignite a proper mixture.
SatnSpwn (talk) 00:58, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  High speed misses? 

message: I didn't see this mentioned in the main article, so if it is than please just disregard.
An evolution of the "hotter = better combustion" philosophy, Honda has started equipping its new cars with dual probe spark plugs. The spark gap now separates an iridium probe and a platinum probe, supposedly producing a hotter spark. I believe the idea is to increase the intensity of the spark rather than the quantity of them. Generally, OEM means a legitimate technology so I figured this deserved a mention.
Links: , 
LostCause (talk) 20:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dual Probe (Not Dual Electrode) Spark Plugs 

message: When you try to click on the link to the Dutch version of the page the browser tries to download the page rather than surf to it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.79.40.9 (talk) 19:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to 'Nederlands' (Dutch) messed up 

message: This diagram (310px-Plug_construction.jpg) is HORRIBLE. Unencyclopaedic!! Does not even show many of the details it should!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/90/Plug_construction.jpg/310px-Plug_construction.jpg
There are better ones in the commons.
I'll put one in if no one else does first. NOTE the WikiCommons ones may need translation to English. (from French or German I think)
--220.101.28.25 (talk) 00:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Horrible Diagram (Plug internals) 

message: Hey Motorhead, if you see this I hope you weren't offended by my comments on your diagram. Would you like to improve it?
If possible, I would really like to use something like this one
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bougie_coupe.jpg
--220.101.28.25 (talk) 01:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better Diagram (Spark Plug internals) 

message: Wanted to include this in the article BUT,
Can't find anything current for the use of lasers instead of spark plugs. Latest internet info seem to be mid 2006.
Sounds feasible though
--220.101.28.25 (talk) 05:37, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Future of the spark ? Lasers replace spark plugs??? 

message: There was a Doowop band in the 50's called Spark Plugs, and all I know about them is they had an LP called "Crazy Beat with the Spark Plugs" recorded by a rare studio called Sutton. It is amazing, but there is nothing on the internet except a video on Youtube with a song and the original vinyl photos. I really thought there was some info in Wikipedia but there is not.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Miguelaccp (talk • contribs) 15:18, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Spark Plugs 

message: Does the comic strip reference really warrant an "In Popular Culture" section in the encyclopedia article on spark plugs? (My vote is "no.")
Jtropp1 (talk) 19:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, per WP:XKCD. That's why the page is protected. OhNoitsJamie Talk 19:59, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: And that's exactly why I deleted it. No real discussion needed as it sounds like the three of us are in agreement. --Biker Biker (talk) 20:53, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  XKCD reference inclusion worthy? 

message: I find it interesting that Biker Biker removed the "In Popular Culture" section and citation and reference to xkcd when this Spark Plug article has already been flagged for not having a single citation or reference. Perhaps his time would be better spent adding citations and references to the existing artile than removing a harmless reference.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bboorman (talk • contribs) 12:48, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You are entitled to your opinion. Perhaps your time, after three years away from Wikipedia, would be better spent improving articles than adding trivia to them. --Biker Biker (talk) 13:06, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: XKCD Reference

message: 3.1.4. and 3.1.7 are largely redundant, though one is a much longer cotton-mouthed version of the other.
Industry shill (talk) 00:33, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, they're not redundant. I note that once again you've re-added the claim that spark plugs are sintered alumina throughout, a bad case of WP:RECENTISM at best and highly misleading in general. The insulator is in two parts, and has two functions@ the upper part is mostly an electrical insulator, the lower part is mostly a thermal insulator. There are probably modern plugs that manage to achieve both through one material, but for the vast history of the spark plug and its varied development, two different materials had to be used here, to achieve the performance needed. The upper insulator has almost universally been of glazed porcelain. The lower one is of sintered alumina, but stacked or rolled mica have an important history too. Andy Dingley (talk) 08:26, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Sorry Andy, no offense intended.  The insulator is one piece, not two.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spark_plug_insulator.jpeg  Apart from the practical difficulty of spark leakage at junctions, two parts cost more than one.  You can dissect a spark plug thus and check for yourself easily enough.  Just grind off the sealing ring at the top of the hex head and it'll come apart, especially if the metal is warm.  
There is also this diagram: http://bp2.blogger.com/_U8_oRrfOswQ/RvGXg-TMyQI/AAAAAAAAAAU/Vr_aww3TBes/s320/PlugDiagram.gif from http://dirtbikeblogger.blogspot.com/2007/09/what-spark-plug-does-spark-plug-has-one.html.  I believe there's also an illustration and description in the Bosch Automotive Handbook, if you you're interested in dead tree format.
Industry shill (talk) 21:24, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Congratulations. As noted, you've found a modern plug with a one piece insulator. Now take a look at :Commons:Category:Spark plugs  Andy Dingley (talk) 11:18, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Two piece insulators are still commonplace. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:09, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Andy. Just look at US patent 5204579, which features a spark plug that has to separate insulator pieces each made from a different material. --Biker Biker (talk) 19:40, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

text: I have no idea who deleted the first version, but I am nominating your new version for deletion. This isn't because of something that you have done, but because the original Polish language image has questionable credentials. I suspect that is exactly why the first version was deleted. Does that make me a deletionist suppressing unpalatable reality? --Biker Biker (talk) 08:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  What exactly are "questionable credentials"?  Are they related to sour grapes?Industry shill (talk) 16:41, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Please edit/delete redundancy

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thread_title: File:Spark plug sd.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: the Tesla patent quoted is not for a spark plug. This is obvious to anyone who reads it, but most Tesla fanboys just repeat the lies found on Tesla sites. Ion G Nemes (talk) 14:59, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You are trolling right? Well, OK, I have bitten. Part of the Tesla patent, which a complete ignition system, very clearly shows a spark being discharged within the cylinder. So if it isn't a spark plug, what is it? --Biker Biker (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: more Tesla idiocy

message: Why do you keep deleting relevant information? You've deleted thread sizes - relevant. You've deleted a section diagram showing spark plug construction multiple times, and are attempting to do so yet again - relevant. Now you're trying to delete a very pertinent diagram showing the construction differences that determine a plug's heat range - relevant. I see your talk page littered with deletionist fragmenta, so this is clearly a vandalistic tendency you have. I'm not a Wikipedia expert, but I intend to look into whether your account can be nominated for freeze or even termination. You're a very destructive individual. Industry shill24.5.243.100 (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You really don't get Wikipedia do you? You don't understand copyright. You don't understand consensus. You don't get on well with others. Yet, I'm the one in the wrong. How bizarre. --Biker Biker (talk) 21:47, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, let's examine:1. This page is woefully short on factual detail.2. People attempting to introduce factual detail have their contributions deleted. 3. Multiple people all have their factual contributions deleted by one person - you.As for "consensus", you are not the sole arbiter of that. As for "copyright", that is a red herring - all images are common media per Wikipedia guidelines. You need to get over yourself and stop this "censorship by technical allegation" crusade of yours.24.5.243.100 (talk) 22:51, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biker Biker vandalism 

message: A basic sizing chart so thread sizes could be viewed. Metric and SAE both need to be covered.
Example- I have an AC Delco plug in my hands- what is the thread size? SAE or Metric.
Not a comprehensive spark plug list- but a listing by company and what size is standard or main stream. thanks
: Any discussion here would be so general as to be useless in identifying any particular spark plug; that's not the type of information to be collected here. Your best bet is a thread gauge or your vehicle manual. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No, this would be useful. Spark plugs only use a handful of standard threads, across brands. Also the relationship between thread size and spanner size isn't the standard one for bolts, it's specific to spark plugs. These threads have also changed over time, as engine developments required different sizes of plug. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:18, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Great, so where can I find out more about the handful of standard sizes? Surely every company makes all the popular sizes, metric or inch?  My Bosch handbook doesn't list them, but it's a pretty small book. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:48, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  What colour is your Bosch handbook? I bet the maroon one does it, even if the blue one doesn't.  Also it's axiomatic that everything is _in_ the Bosch handbook, but nothing can be _found_ in the Bosch handbook.  Besides which, Bosch aren't the only game in town. NGK always used to have a really good technical catalogue on spark plugs etc. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:12, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The little blue one - (Horst Bauer Bosch Automotive Handbook 4th Edition Robert Bosch GmbH, Stuttgart 1996 ). A model of compact technical reference. I'll have to page through it when I get home. Do we have WP:RS issues with maker's catalogs? --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:25, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

text: This is an encyclopaedia not an information bureaux. 86.130.28.61 (talk) 12:53, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  thread sizes overview or link 

message: This article does not even mention the process of INDUCTION that causes the emf of tens of thousands of volts.1Engine (talk) 16:31, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No spark plug that I am aware contains anything remotely connected with induction. 86.130.28.61 (talk) 12:52, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operation 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:40, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion 

message: The lead claims the engine block is grounded. I'm no expert, but since most vehicles are electrically insulated from the ground by their tires, I question this. It may be common automotive terminology to claim that connecting to one pole or the other of the battery is "grounding" but commonly being grounded (earthed) requires connection to ...drum beat.... the ground. Simply being at the same voltage as a car's engine block and frame doesn't necessarily mean that voltage is 0V (ground), does it?2604:CB00:1D1C:7A00:889E:5E83:809C:1402 (talk) 01:43, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: And yet this is the way it's spoken of. We at Wikipedia are powerless to correct this. --Wtshymanski (talk) 22:39, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Engine block grounded? 

message: I have looked through the reference, and other unreferenced sources, that suggest that a man named Edmund Berger was the first to create a spark plug: 
https://www.gasenginemagazine.com/gas-engines/humble-spark-plug-zmtz20amzhur/
https://www.thoughtco.com/inventors-of-the-spark-plug-4074529
And I have been left with the same statements of “Some historians suggest” or “According to several sources”, where the “historians” and “sources” are neither given or named.
I’m at a point where I question whether this guy even exists. I’m new to Wikipedia so I’m asking if it would be best to remove all mention of him from the article till proper proof can be given for a) his existence b) his invention of what is said to be a “proto-spark plug”.—-UselessPistol (talk) 22:48, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello , yes it is all quite vague unfortunately. Personally I would like to give Mr Berger the benefit of the doubt, but I would not object if it was removed. Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 11:47, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I have emailed both websites to see if they may provide the proof for Berger’s invention. I’ll amend the page if they give anything suitable.—UselessPistol (talk) 12:02, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good idea! Thank you for taking the extra initiative to do this. Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 12:33, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

text: Further, others claim that Edmund Berger invented a sparking device for use in remote-detonation of explosives, not a "spark plug" as is used in an engine, and considering the claimed date this would make a lot more sense. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/history-spark-plug/ 98.246.153.16 (talk) 03:45, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concerning Edmond Berger