Talk:New Sweden

message: Is it true that sweden was the second country from where settlers went to the "new world"? links? doubt it... Foant 17:12, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so. Sweden was right behind the English and Dutch but they were first I'm pretty sure in the Colonies. Of course Spain beat them all. I'm not sure about Portugal in terms of founding a settlement but they were second in charting out the area of New England.  12.220.47.145 23:51, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second country to send settlers to the New World? 

message: March 7, 2006; the map of New Sweden interposed on the New Netherland Wikipedia entry is not contemporary. It is of recent creation which (if at all, because of its interpretive purpose) belongs to an entry on Wikipedia about New Sweden (definitely not on the New Netherland page) which was established by various disenfranchised and disgruntled members of the Dutch West India Company (including Willem Usselincxs, Samuel Blommaert and Peter Minuit) under the auspices of the Swedish king. Petrus Stuyvesant had been ordered by the States General to retake the area which he did on September 25,1655, with a fleet of seven ships and a force comprising 317 soldiers and over 300 sailors. He was told to do "his utmost to revenge this misfortune not only by restoring matters to their former condition, but also by driving the Swedes at the same time from the river as they did to us".
DEKONING — Preceding undated comment added 18:05, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Koning, and welcome to Wikipedia. Please do not keep removing the map of New Netherlands and New Sweden from the article again; it was probably made by a wikipedian for these two articles, so yes it is surely "of recent creation". Also, please DO NOT SHOUT on talk pages. And finally, please sign your comments. Thanks. //Big Adamsky 06:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I promise to be respectful, however you have not yet convinced me as to how the map is not historical or does not belong in these two articles. The caption states that both areas are shown in relation to each other, so I don't see where else the map would belong. It is quite obvious that this map was created recently, and not created in the 17th century, like the paintings that are also in the article. Do not revert unless you can provide a better map yourself, otherwise you might be in violation of the three-revert rule. To sign your posting, just type four tildes (like this ~~~~). //Big Adamsky 17:46, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

text: There isn't any rule in wikipedia that only historical maps are used as illustration. On the contrary: new maps drawn by wikipedians are encouraged. As Adamsky said the disputed drawing is not a New Sweden map but shows the two colonies together so it is certainly useful for both articles. If you think the map factually incorrect please give us clear explanations and make a better one correcting the mistakes. Zello 21:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

text: More relevant than your three points, New Sweden was based on military control.  I believe it was demonstrated that New Netherland was incapable of controlling their claimed territory, so how then is the territory actually theirs?  — Laura Scudder ☎ 18:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Sweden versus Virginia, New England, New Netherland 

message: Claim about Swedes and Norwegians & Irish no longer holds:
in 20th and 21st centuries emigration from various Caribbean nations has sent out comparable proportions of those nations' populations. Dogru144 07:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Not highest % of nation emigrating

message: Most of the 18th century sources I have looked at state as fact that the Swedes had arrived in New Sweden in the year 1627, with Peter Lindstrom building Christeen and other forts by 1631, but that it was destroyed that year by the Dutch.  Has this been discounted, or is it perhaps a fiction made up by Oxenstierna to establish a prior Swedish claim?  Til Eulenspiegel 15:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article on Christina of Sweden (for whom Fort Christina was named) says she didn't become queen until 1632. Can you find anything online supporting the earlier date?--BillFlis 13:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Sweden started in 1627 or 1638 ??? 

message: It is said that it was Admiral Klaus Fleming who offered for the revolting Finnish peasants after their capture two alternatives; to be hanged of go voluntarely with their families to New World to establish new Finnish settlements there in 1596 - 1597 to strenghten the position of the legal King Sigismund of Sweden (and Poland). A chapter totally omitted in Dutch and Swedish
histories. It is said (but no confirmed written sources exist) that the Indian Chief of Mohawks
who sold to the Dutch Manhattan was in origin a white man. It has been proved that the Finnish
new settlers who came to New World had no problems with the neighbouring Indian tribes.
Some scholars have come to conclusuon that the main population in Swedish Colonies were ethnically of Finnish origin. The Swedes and Germans hold the admistrative posts and Dutch were the fur traders but the remainders were Finns. At least two Finnish settlements are missing from the list. Kasteholma and Sauna. Sauna was located in the place which become later Philadelphia.    
JN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.203.149 (talk) 04:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peharps Even Earlier Than 1627 

message: The article for Tinicum Township, Delaware County, Pennsylvania states that this town can claim the distinction of being the location of the first European settlement in what is now Pennsylvania, but w/o and citation of source. This could seem to be true considering its location on the Delaware River and Darby Creek. This is contradictory to the what is stated in New Sweden article, so I will not change it, but am going to tentatively link in Forts of New Netherland. If this fact can be verified, would be nice to know. Djflem (talk) 00:08, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fort Nya Gothenborg-location 

message: From the above article:
===South River and New Sweden===
Apart from the second Fort Nassau, and the small community that supported it, settlement along the Zuyd Rivier was limited. Zwaanendael, during the absence of the patroon's agent, David Pietersen de Vries, was destroyed by the local population soon after its founding in 1631.
Peter Minuit, who had construed a deed for Manhattan (and was soon after dismissed as director), knew that the Dutch would be unable to defend the southern flank of its North American territory and had not signed treaties with or purchased land from the Minquas. After gaining the support from the Queen of Sweden, he chose the southern banks of the Delaware Bay to establish a colony there, which he did in 1638, calling it Fort Christina, New Sweden. As expected, the government at New Amsterdam took no other action than to protest. Other settlements sprang up as colony grew, mostly populated by Swedes, Finns, Germans, and Dutch.
In 1651, Fort Nassau was dismantled and relocated in an attempt to disrupt trade and reassert control, receiving the name Fort Casimir. Fort Beversreede was built in the same year, but was short-lived. In 1655, Stuyvesant led a military expedition and regained control of the region, calling its main town New Amstel. During this expedition some villages and plantations at the Manhattans (Pavonia and Staten Island) were attacked in a incident that is known as the Peach Tree War. These raids are sometimes considered revenge for the murder of an Indian girl attempting to pluck a peach, though it was likely that they were a retaliation for the attacks at New Sweden.
A new experimental settlement was begun in 1673, just before the British takeover in 1674. Franciscus van den Enden had drawn up charter for a utopian society that included equal education of all classes, joint ownership of property, and a democratically elected government. Pieter Corneliszoon Plockhoy attempted such a settlement near the site of Zwaanendael, but it soon expired under English rule.
Djflem (talk) 22:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[New Netherland]] 

message: Apart from the second Fort Nassau, and the small community that supported it, settlement along the Zuyd Rivier was limited. Zwaanendael, during the absence of the patroon's agent, David Pietersen de Vries, was destroyed by the local population soon after its founding in 1631.
Peter Minuit, who had construed a deed for Manhattan (and was soon after dismissed as director), knew that the Dutch would be unable to defend the southern flank of its North American territory and had not signed treaties with or purchased land from the Minquas. After gaining the support from the Queen of Sweden, he chose the southern banks of the Delaware Bay to establish a colony there, which he did in 1638, calling it Fort Christina, New Sweden. As expected, the government at New Amsterdam took no other action than to protest. Other settlements sprang up as colony grew, mostly populated by Swedes, Finns, Germans, and Dutch.
In 1651, Fort Nassau was dismantled and relocated in an attempt to disrupt trade and reassert control, receiving the name Fort Casimir. Fort Beversreede was built in the same year, but was short-lived. In 1655, Stuyvesant led a military expedition and regained control of the region, calling its main town New Amstel. During this expedition some villages and plantations at the Manhattans (Pavonia and Staten Island) were attacked in a incident that is known as the Peach Tree War. These raids are sometimes considered revenge for the murder of an Indian girl attempting to pluck a peach, though it was likely that they were a retaliation for the attacks at New Sweden.
A new experimental settlement was begun in 1673, just before the British takeover in 1674. Franciscus van den Enden had drawn up charter for a utopian society that included equal education of all classes, joint ownership of property, and a democratically elected government. Pieter Corneliszoon Plockhoy attempted such a settlement near the site of Zwaanendael, but it soon expired under English rule.
Djflem (talk) 22:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: South River and New Sweden

message: Whether the conquest of New Sweden should be considered part of the Second Northern War is debatable. Independent of the Dutch government, and several months before the Second Northern War began, the directors of the Dutch West India Company ordered Director-General Peter Stuyvesant to "drive" the Swedes from the river. This was in response to the seizure of Fort Casimir by the Swedes the previous year (Gehring, 2003; Johnson, 1911). While the Dutch did intervene in the war in Europe, a "state of war" never existed between the Dutch Republic and Sweden.
The Dutch did not "march" an army to the Delaware River in 1655. Stuyvesant and 300 Dutch soldiers boarded seven ships in New Amsterdam and sailed to Delaware Bay. (Johnson, 1911; Shorto, 2004)
Although there is a reference to the Peach Tree War in the Infobox, there is nothing about it in the body of the article. Note that reliable sources use "Peach War" not "Peach Tree War." (Shorto, 2004; Trelease, 1960; Van Zandt, 2008). 
The Infobox indicates that New Sweden was "preceded by" the Susquehannock. This is incorrect as the Delaware River valley was inhabited by the Lenape (Delaware) in 1638. The source cited in the body of the article for Minuit's land purchase makes it quite clear that although the Susquehannock witnessed the transaction, the Lenape owned the land (Jennings, 1984).
The claim that Swedish traders had been visiting the Delaware River since 1610 does not appear in the source cited, nor is it supported by other sources. The first exploration of the river by Europeans was undertaken by the Dutch in 1616 (Ward, 1930).
Sources:
*Gehring, Charles T. (1995). "Hodi Mihi, Cras Tibi: Swedish-Dutch Relations in the Delaware Valley". In Hoffecker, Carol E.; et al. (eds.). New Sweden in America. Newark, Delaware: University of Delaware Press. pp. 69–85.
*
*Johnson, Amandus (1911). The Swedish Settlements on the Delaware, 1638-1664, Volume 2, Philadelphia: Dutch Colonial Society, pp. 591-616.
*Shorto, Russell (2004). The Island at the Center of the World: The Epic Story of Dutch Manhattan and the Forgotten Colony that Shaped America. New York, New York: Doubleday. ISBN 978-0385503495.
*Trelease, Allan W. (1960). Indian Affairs in Colonial New York: The Seventeenth Century. Ithica, New York: Cornell University Press.
*Van Zandt, Cynthia Jean (2008). Brothers among Nations: The Pursuit of Intercultural Alliances in Early America, 1580-1660. Oxford New York: Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0195181241.
*
Griffin's Sword (talk) 23:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in support of the various changes you're advocating, both here and in the Second Northern War article. You seem knowledgeable in the subject. I advice you to be bold and let the changes initiate discussion, if there will be protests. Imonoz (talk) 00:56, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

text: Make sure to also include references as cited on the article like you've done with a couple already so that they're not just mentioned here, I also support changes supported by verifiable references. TylerBurden (talk) 20:43, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conquest of New Sweden in 1655