Talk:Hephthalites/Gokturk raids of 614-616

message: Result of the War should be Göktürk Victory, after Hephthalites were defeated by Smbat, they requested reinforcements from The Göktürk Khagan and when the reinforcements came, they raided and plundered as far as borders of Reyy and the province of Ispahan. Then they returned to their country/camp with the recall of the Khagan because of an unknown reason (probably Töles revolt), then Smbat reorganized the army and attacked the Hephthalites, personally killing the Hephthalite king in 1v1. The Göktürk Cembukh is probably the Western Khagan Tong Yabgu, and he participated in the wars that happened after this event. Hephthalite king isn't Göktürk Khagan or leader. While books published by Oxford, UNESCO and there is a source from that time (Sebeos) clearly says the thing i've just wrote, it is annoying that Wikipedia has wrong information. Hunnic Enjoyer (talk) 14:45, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Result of the War should be Göktürk Victory 

message: I have yet to find any reference calling this a "war".
*"Major raids still occurred into Sasanian Khurāsān and archaeological evidence implies that the defensive infrastructures of the eastern frontier, most notably the Gorgān Wall, remained garrisoned in the early seventh century. The contemporary Armenian historian Sebēos described raids ‘over the face of the whole country’ that eventually travelled as far west as Isfahan in 616 or 617. Smaller raids may have hindered Sasanian rule in Khurāsān even earlier with disruptions in coin production from the mints of Sakāstān, Herat and Marw occurring in 600, 601 and 603, respectively. Minting resumed in Sakāstān by 610 and Marw by 613. In response to these raids, Khusrow sent the Armenian prince Smbat IV Bagratuni (d. 617) who defeated the Hephthalites near Nīshāpūr, but then the Hephthalites were able to call upon support from the Turks who sent an army reported at the exaggerated size of 300,000 in support of their vassals. Smbat was defeated somewhere between Nīshāpūr and the Oxus. A second battle went better for the Sasanians and Smbat and his army travelled as far as Balkh, allowing him to plunder all of Ṭukhāristān and destroy Hephthalite fortresses before retiring to Marw and Marw al-Rūd." --Robert Haug, The Eastern Frontier: Limits of Empire in Late Antique and Early Medieval Central Asia, page 68
*"The only information we have on Smbat Bagratuni's governorship in Khurasan during the second half of his tenure in the east in 614-616/617, are the detailed accounts given by Sebeos of two military expeditions that he undertook in Khurasan. According to Howard-Johnston, the first of these took place when a Kushan army invaded the region..[..].. At this point the Kushans asked for Turkish aid, and a great force of 300,000(!) answered the call and crossed the Oxus(Vehrot). A raiding party besieged the walled village..[..].. The Turkish army then moved westwards and got "as far as the borders of Reyy and of the province of Ispahan," and after plundering the region, returned to its camp." --Pourshariati, page 139.
*"Then the kings of the K‘ushans requested help for themselves from the great Khak‘an, king of the regions of the North. A host of 300,000 came to their support, and crossed the river called Vehrçot, which comes out of T‘urk‘astan from the land of Ewilat via the Gymnosophists, the Shamn and Brahmn, and flows into India. Camping on the river bank, they sent out raids westwards..." --Robert Thomson, Armenian History Attributed to Sebeos, Part 1, page 50-51.
*"And from there he went on to the neighborhood of his original principality in Koms, and he called to him from Wrkan the Armenian troops standing there, 2000 horsemen, and went straight to Xorasan. The K'usan had dispersed to pillage, but at the rumor of his approach they hastily departed; but they were caught up by him and scattered, whereupon he encamped in the Gau Tos in the province of Aprsahr. The K'usan now requested help from the great Xak'an, the king of the northern regions, who sent an army of 300,000 men who, after crossing the Wehrot, set up camp on the river and then scattered to the west to pillage. They surprised the Smbat, who had only 300 men with him, in his quarters, the Komopolis Xroxt, and besieged him. But he ordered his 300 men to throw themselves into the citadel, which was in the middle of the Komopolis, and fought his way through with three companions. But since the enemy could not do anything to the 300 in the citadel, they threw themselves on the main Persian army, which the Persian Datojean commanded. Smbat advised retreat, but Datojean advanced to meet the enemy and suffered a complete defeat. The Turks made raids as far as the borders of the provinces of Re and Aspahan, and having laid waste the whole country, they returned to their camp." --J. Marquart, Eranshahr, p. 66
*"The forces that Smbat had left were too small to offer much resistance so the Turks were able to raid as far as Rayy and the province of Ispahan/Isfahan before they withdrew to the other side of the Oxus." -- Ilkka Syvanne, Military History of Late Rome 602-641, page 128
*"Xosrow appointed the Armenian general Smbat bagratuni marzban (“warden of the marches”) of Vrkan (Hyrcania, ... the invaders “sent out raids and made incursions as far as the borders of Reyy and of the province of Ispahan." --D.T. Potts, Nomadism in Iran: From Antiquity to the Modern Era, page 154
*Cambridge History of Iran, volume 3, part 1, mentions Smbat, but nothing of any raids by Turks.
The article title should be changed to "Gokturk raid of 616-617". --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:42, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong year(s), wrong title 

message: Please unlock the page because I have sources about Sassanid victory in this war 89.219.82.254 (talk) 21:23, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @89.219.82.254 Well I would demand the same I have 8 sources on Gokturk victory IlyaSurkhayovic (talk) 11:40, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sassanids victory  

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:First Perso-Turkic War which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 15:47, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: many sources say its gokturk victory even the turkish translation 2001:4644:B0B7:0:ECA2:AD40:B021:2CE7 (talk) 19:01, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Read  . HistoryofIran (talk) 17:46, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You couldn't answer properly. I read them all. You're just distorting it. 2001:1C02:2C06:C500:70C9:F4D5:C5B0:42F5 (talk) 18:09, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Judging by your comments, you clearly didn't. But keep WP:REHASHING, I'm sure you'll get your way eventually. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:32, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  It's gokturk victory 

message: There is a lot of sources that say this war is a Göktürk victory.İ could change it but it is semi- protected.even there is no source in the result of this war.İ demand the changing results.
Here is the list of sources that that war is Turkic victory:
M.Grigngnaschi,"Sabirs, Khazars ve Göktürks",C.I,Ankara,25-29 September,1971,Ankara,1972,s.238
 Lev Gumilev, Thw Old Turks, Selenge Yayınları, p. 172
 Edouard Chavannes, The western turks with chinese sources, p. 280
 M.I Artamonov, Khazar history, p. 182
 J. Marquart, Eranshahr, p. 66
 Sebeos, Istoriya Imperatora, s. 52
 Pourshariati, Parvaneh (2008). Decline and Fall of the Sasanian Empire: The Sasanian-Parthian Confederacy and the Arab Conquest of Iran, p. 139
 Robert Haug, The Eastern Frontier: Limits of Empire in Late Antique and Early Medieval Central Asia
Result of the war must be changed. 88.236.184.51 (talk) 18:43, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Kansas Bear 88.236.184.51 (talk) 18:52, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Demand all you want, nothing has been presented that changes the result for this article. --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Result of the war