Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus

message: And so, the mediation begins. As is customary, we shall begin the mediation with each person making an opening statement. Please state your position regarding the issues noted on the mediation page:
*The use of Finkelstein as a reliable source in this article
**Which "Finkelstein" are we talking about and is the dispute over the use of any of his works or just a particular one?
* Use of any other commentator on the Arab-Israeli conflict that similarly doesn't hold a position as a tenured professor at a major university or does not do his/her own primary research of the Arabic, Hebrew, and English texts using the historical method as a reliable source in this article.
Please be brief – probably just a couple of sentences for each point – and please refrain from responding to the comments of others in their sections (stick to your own sections). -- tariqabjotu 07:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening statements 

message: I agree on mediation on both points.
* This is about Norman Finkelstein and one text I wanted to add based on his book 'Image and Reality'. I think we should discuss the issue as it is stated now. I'd like to use Finkelstein as a reliable source in this article. I can't find anything in Wikipedia policy that disqualifies him. He is considered very reliable by academic colleagues. See e.g. the comment of Avi Shlaim ' sterling qualities for which Finkelstein has become famous: erudition, originality, spark, meticulous attention to detail, intellectual integrity, courage, and formidable forensic skills '."–Avi Shlaim, Professor of International Relations, Oxford University []. We also had a vote on it in the talk section [] in which GHcool was heavily defeated.
* We didn't discuss the second issue on the talk page of the article, and I don't think I can accept this and get the other editors to agree. Besides I don't agree with it myself: in my opinion it would replace wikipedia 'reliable source' policy by a narrower policy.
--JaapBoBo 00:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: JaapBoBo

message: I also agree on mediation on both points.
* I agree with most of the academics in the field of Middle Eastern history when I say that Norman Finkelstein is an unreliable source at best and a malicious one at worst.  Shlaim is, as far as I know, the only reliable historian of the region that doesn't heavily criticize Finkelstein's work.  Other serious scholars such as Benny Morris express nothing but contempt for the man and his work. The passages of Image and Reality relevant to this debate contains nothing that can be described as serious historical research.  All of it is a denial of others' research by selectively using other secondary sources that agree with Finkelstein's point of view.  No primary sources are used unless it was quoted in another's book.  
** This debate mostly concerned the addition of information cited to Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict by Norman G. Finkelstein (Verso Books, 1995), but I think its safe to say that both JaapBoBo and I would find ourselves taking similar positions concerning anything Finkelstein ever wrote or ever will write.  
* Contrary to JaapBoBo's opening statement above, I brought up this second point countless times, including in the unofficial vote he claims I was "defeated" in.  Like JaapBoBo, I also hope that the "Causes of the Palestinian exodus" article does not come to the point where commentators that meet WP:RS but do not meet the other standards we have implicitly set for the article are allowed in.  On the other hand, because Finkelstein's scholarship is so important to some people to have in this article, I proposed a compromise: we could do away with these implicitly agreed upon "higher" standards we've been setting for this article and allow a looser interpretation of WP:RS.  As far as I'm concerned, the door is still open for this course of action, but JaapBoBo (and others) should be warned that if the door is open for Finkelstein's anti-Israel work, then the door is also open for pro-Israel works of similar quality and repute.
--GHcool 05:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GHcool

message: :See /Archive#Issue I: Finkelstein as a source.
The two parties agreed to the following sentence:
According to Norman Finkelstein in his book Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History, "all serious scholars [now concede] that ... the Palestinians [were] ethnically cleansed in 1948, and scholarly debate now [focuses] on ... whether this cleansing was the intentional consequence of Zionist policy or the unintentional by-product of war."[citation here]
-- tariqabjotu 20:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue I: Finkelstein as a source