Talk:Land of Oz

message: I removed the line *In the same book, the backstory of Gayelette and Quelala, to explain the Golden Cap, concludes with their deaths, that allowed the cap to fall into the Wicked Witch's hands* because this is untrue. The text from the book in question from the originating creator and author is as follows: 
“There lived here then, away at the North, a beautiful princess,
who was also a powerful sorceress.  All her magic was used to help
the people, and she was never known to hurt anyone who was good.
Her name was Gayelette, and she lived in a handsome palace built
from great blocks of ruby.  Everyone loved her, but her greatest
sorrow was that she could find no one to love in return, since all
the men were much too stupid and ugly to mate with one so beautiful
and wise.  At last, however, she found a boy who was handsome and
manly and wise beyond his years.  Gayelette made up her mind that
when he grew to be a man she would make him her husband, so she
took him to her ruby palace and used all her magic powers to
make him as strong and good and lovely as any woman could wish.
When he grew to manhood, Quelala, as he was called, was said to
be the best and wisest man in all the land, while his manly beauty
was so great that Gayelette loved him dearly, and hastened to make
everything ready for the wedding.My grandfather was at that time the King of the Winged Monkeys
which lived in the forest near Gayelette's palace, and the old fellow
loved a joke better than a good dinner.  One day, just before the wedding,
my grandfather was flying out with his band when he saw Quelala walking
beside the river.  He was dressed in a rich costume of pink silk and
purple velvet, and my grandfather thought he would see what he could do.
At his word the band flew down and seized Quelala, carried him in their
arms until they were over the middle of the river, and then dropped him
into the water. Swim out, my fine fellow, cried my grandfather, and see if
the water has spotted your clothes.  Quelala was much too wise
not to swim, and he was not in the least spoiled by all his good
fortune.  He laughed, when he came to the top of the water, and
swam in to shore.  But when Gayelette came running out to him she
found his silks and velvet all ruined by the river. The princess was angry, and she knew, of course, who did it.
She had all the Winged Monkeys brought before her, and she said at
first that their wings should be tied and they should be treated
as they had treated Quelala, and dropped in the river.  But my
grandfather pleaded hard, for he knew the Monkeys would drown in
the river with their wings tied, and Quelala said a kind word for
them also; so that Gayelette finally spared them, on condition
that the Winged Monkeys should ever after do three times the
bidding of the owner of the Golden Cap.  This Cap had been made
for a wedding present to Quelala, and it is said to have cost the
princess half her kingdom.  Of course my grandfather and all the
other Monkeys at once agreed to the condition, and that is how it
happens that we are three times the slaves of the owner of the
Golden Cap, whosoever he may be. And what became of them? asked Dorothy, who had been greatly
interested in the story. Quelala being the first owner of the Golden Cap, replied
the Monkey, he was the first to lay his wishes upon us.  As his
bride could not bear the sight of us, he called us all to him in
the forest after he had married her and ordered us always to keep
where she could never again set eyes on a Winged Monkey, which we
were glad to do, for we were all afraid of her. This was all we ever had to do until the Golden Cap fell into
the hands of the Wicked Witch of the West, who made us enslave the
Winkies, and afterward drive Oz himself out of the Land of the
West.  Now the Golden Cap is yours, and three times you have the
right to lay your wishes upon us. As the Monkey King finished his story Dorothy looked down
and saw the green, shining walls of the Emerald City before them.
She wondered at the rapid flight of the Monkeys, but was glad the
journey was over.  The strange creatures set the travelers down
carefully before the gate of the City, the King bowed low to
Dorothy, and then flew swiftly away, followed by all his band.”''
No where in this, the only story of Gaylette in Baum's canon, does it say or even loosely imply that she or Quelala died. 72.193.255.94 (talk) 10:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's incredibly silly of you. Oz matches most of the criteria for what a typical person would call a fictional country. The categorization scheme is not meant to be an exact scientific tool, it's meant as a reference guide. Would you remove zuchinni and eggplants from the category of vegetables, because technically they're fruit? Suit yourself, I think the way categories currently function on Wikipedia is too confused anyway for me to expend much energy on questions like this, but I think if anything should be in the category of Fictional Countries, Oz is a prime example. --Woggly 07:29, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: To answer your question yes I would remove zuchinni and eggplants from the category of vegtable because they are technically fruit or at least make a very clear point some where in the article of this fact. If you want to categorize Oz as a fictional country go ahead, but it's misinformation.--The_stuart 16:31, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: Actually, Oz, IS a country. The four "countries" are equivalent to US states, with the Emerald City as its capital. Ozma rules ALL of Oz. Remember, Baum was creating an American fairy tale, and based Oz upon the United States's layout. If each "country" was a seperate nation, why would Ozma rule over them all? --—JonMoore 20:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. According to wiktionary, a country is "a nation state, a political entity asserting ultimate authority over a large geographical area," which is definitely Oz. There's also a definition that says "a former independent nation state (e.g., England or Scotland)" so perhaps that's what Munchkinland etc. are, but just because Wales and Scotland are countries doesn't mean that the U.K., by the first definition, is not.--Signor Giuseppe 15:12, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I have created a new WikiProject about Oz: WikiProject Oz. I hope to create a community to help guide the continued development of the articles about the series and its authors, characters, etc. toward even more quality articles. If you are interested, please add your name under the "Participants section" and please leave any comments or questions on the project's talk page or my user talk page. — —JonMoore 20:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Oz]]

message: Although many authors of the period in which the Oz books were written did set up the pretense that their protagonists were real in some way, Baum did so at his convenience. In the preface to at least one book, he credits his readers with helping him to come up with the story. By the time he had written 5 books in the series, he had had enough and wanted to write something else. So at the end of "The Emerald City of Oz", he has the land of Oz separated from the rest of the world. That way, when his young fans would ask for more Oz stories, he could simply say that he hasn't been in contact with Oz to get the latest news, instead of telling them the harsh truth that he didn't want to write about that anymore. The preface to "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" simply allows him to take back that pronouncement and write more Oz stories. He does mention a telegraphic dialogue with Dorothy in one of his other prefaces, but he makes no serious effort to enforce the reality of his characters.Qit el-Remel (talk  •  contribs) 08:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Is Oz History?

message: This version of Ozian history is problematic in that the Wizard named the country after himself even though it had been known as Oz and its rulers had been named Ozma for perhaps millennia. It is more likely that the story of the Wizard naming the land after himself is a type of retroactive continuity or revisionist history that attempted to explain the etymology of the name without a complete previous knowledge.
It's been a while since I read it, so I may be misremembering, but doesn't this get discussed in Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz? If I recall correctly, the explanation there is that the Wizard thought he'd named the country after himself, but it was actually a coincidence. Daibhid C 23:05 17 December 2005 (UTC)
:That's correct. In book 4, Ozma says that the word Oz means good or great in an "old language." To my knowledge, this is the one of two references to an "old language" in the entire series. But in my reading anyway, not only is it unclear that it was called Oz before Diggs, but weather or not Oscar Diggs called it anything anything at all. --Mattbloom 19:37, 07 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Origins of name

message: I love this article - came across it via Clifford Pickover's site. One point, though: In the first book, the Emerald City is not really emerald, but merely appears that way because the Wizard obliges everyone to wear green glasses. In subsequent books, however, it seems pretty clear that the city really is emerald. Should this be mentioned in the article? Adambrowne666 21:58, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the Emerald City emerald? 

message: I always have to correct people. There is no evidence that Dorothy was or wasn't dreaming in the MGM film. All the adults say she has a bump on her head which would be true if the window was still broken, which it isn't - that's KEY - the magic of the Ruby slippers one assumes restored her house. Most importantly, Dorothy earnestly corrects the adults that they are wrong, that she really was there, but finishes, that it doesn't matter because now she is home.
It could be a dream, but it's left very open...--67.160.239.65 12:14, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dorothy's MGM Dream

message: I deleted a bit about the MGM Glinda. She clearly states that "Dorothy had the power all along, but she had to find it out for herself". Dorothy explains what she has learned. The Slippers are mysteriously powerful in both book and film, as aside from zapping the witch (movie), and being comfortable (the book), they are only once used to send Dorothy home. It's logical to assume they wouldn't have worked if Dorothy not only believed they would, but also sincerely wished to return home.--67.160.239.65 12:25, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Glinda's Explanation

message: I love Baum's books as well as anyone else here, but there's a definite problem with the fact that this entry is completely written in-universe.  It's written as if Oz is a real place several times throughout the article.  If you feel I'm just blowing hot-air, please refer to WP:WAF.  WAF has several good examples of how this should be written, but I'd also like to point out one article, Bulbasaur, part of another project I've been working on.  That is how you talk about fictional characters and places, not this.  Any comments? Zappernapper 22:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this needs a total rewrite to conform to that standard.  Goldfritha 00:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've completely rewritten the History section and the introduction. How's it look? 172.165.196.145 20:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work, though I've done some tweaking on the prose - hope that's okAdambrowne666 07:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly an improvement and it looks great overall. But I am wondering, which books describe the EC as made out of Emerald? Are you sure this isn't a inconsistency introduced by Thompson? 172.149.128.85 06:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm pretty sure, because I've only read the Baum books -- I remember noting it when I first read it, because one of the things I like about the Oz books is their inconsistencies - there's something so beautifully slapdash about them - a making-it-up-as-you-go-along feel. I can't work out which book it was in though -- I'm happy to have it taken out of the article until someone else can come up with a citation. Adambrowne666 04:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just recently started reading Oz books by author authors--the public domain ones. I made a list of inconsistencies as I read, but I can't remember if the EC was in it. I did look through a few of the earlier books lately, and all that describe the city agree on marble up to Road, which mentions emerald walls, and (I believe) gates, as well as marble sidewalks and gold-plated houses. Perhaps that was the turning point in Baum's mind? 172.149.126.135 23:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's my understanding that in the first two books anyway, it was made of marble, with emeralds embedded in the walls, but that there were tall spires of emeralds on some of the buildings. Jinjar in book two and her girl army are actually seen pulling them out of the buildings and walk ways. The city seems to evolve though, like everything post Ozma. Even the geography changes, at least twice with no explanation (see geographic markers in books 1,3,6,and 9 for an example what I'm talking about). jmathewbloom 02:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiki style guide not followed.... 

message: Not only is this entirely in universe -- is any of this in the books, as opposed to being speculation?  Fun though it may be to treat the work as if the world-building is good and needs only to be explained, it is not suitable for Wikipedia.  Goldfritha 00:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: this is actually why i've been unwilling to do anything major, even ignoring it for a while.  There is so much that would have to be cut becuase i don't really have the sources to back anything up. -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 19:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been given references -- but are those to mines and the like in the books, or merely allusions to the gems?  I think the later; I will have to check.  Goldfritha 16:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think this should be removed. 172.165.196.145 20:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Geology

message: Should the characters of the stories really be listed here? Articles on real countries don't list notable residents of those countries. Should an article on a fictional country list fictional residents by name? There already is a List of characters in the Oz books. Shui9 23:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Characters

message: I removed the trivia section of the article in accordance with WP:TRIVIA. The section previously read as follows:
:In a Sabrina, the Teenage Witch super novel, one of the chapters involves a displaced L. Frank Baum wandering through the Other Realm which ends up being the basis for the Oz books. The explanation for the name of OZ is given as a change from the intended original name of OR, for Other Realm.
Shui9 18:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: At the moment, the article mentions "Winkie Country (though also named 'The Vinkus')".  I'm not a Baum scholar, but to my recollection "The Vinkus" is a term invented by Gregory Maguire for Wicked.  If my memory is correct, the article shouldn't present Maguire's creations as if they were Baum's — the line should read something like "Winkie Country (called "The Vinkus" by Gregory Maguire in Wicked)", similar to the way the Wicked Witch of the East's name is parenthetically identified at Land of Oz#History through the first six books. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:37, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Winkie Country/Vinkus 

message: The article says that the great book is not introduced until Scarecrow. I haven't changed this because the exact introduction is certainly open to debate, but it was certainly before Scarecrow (book 9). In particular, I remember it mentioned in Tik-Tok (book 8) when Glinda sees Ann Soforth's army marching on the capital, in the introduction to Patchwork (book 7), at the end of Emerald City (book 6), and I believe it (or its predecessor) was even hinted at as far back as Land of Oz (book 2), although it's described somewhat differently. 172.165.124.203 (talk) 00:40, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great Book of Records 

message: I removed the following paragraph from the section on how other authors have treated Oz. It is not about another author's treatment of the world, and does not belong in that section. In fact, It does not appear to be on topic in this article at all. I think the most it deserves is a little note at the top saying that "Land of Oz" redirects here, and has another meaning. In my personal opinion, however, this is blatant spam, and it being posted here is very poor marketing. Try posting your spam in an article on BPD, if that's what it's about. It is not about Oz.
:This Land of OzLand Of Oz Yahoo! groups support group is more of a reference to the classic story by L. Frank Baum.  In Oz, everything is not always as it seems and just not quite the way it should be.  In other words, things are a little off in the Land Of Oz.  Accordingly, people who are in a close relationship with a partner that suffers from Borderline personality disorder (BPD)National Institute of Mental Health BPD Fact Sheet are said to be stuck in the "Land Of Oz".  The Ozite often gets overwhelmed with the difficult and contradictory behavior of a Borderline partnerNational Institute of Mental Health Article: Borderline Personality Disorder: Brain Differences Related to Disruptions in Cooperation in Relationships and often wishes to escape to "Kansas", or a normal life that does not involve the unstable moods, unstable behavior, broken and/or strained relationships, misperceptions, accusations, and general lack of trust that entail living with a Borderline partner.
67.142.165.26 (talk) 20:18, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed Support Group 

message: March Laumer's section was removed. I've added it back. Can anyone give me a good reason why it shouldn't be there? No one contests the sections on Philip José Farmer, Robert A. Heinlein, L. Sprague de Camp, or Tad Williams, although all of these authors wrote only one Oz book, and in several of those cases, they were only partially Oz. March Laumer, by contrast, spent decades of his life writing dozens of Oz books. I believe anyone who spends any degree of time reading Oz books will know of him, and he at least deserves a mention on this page. 67.142.165.31 (talk) 21:16, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  March Laumer 

message: I don't recall Ringworld being mentioned in Number of the Beast.  The characters encounter a Lensman, and the Oz elements are substantial.  I also recall the encounter with the White Rabbit.  Since I don't remember Gulliver's travels being mentioned either, I added a 'citation needed' tag to the list.
66.219.183.9 (talk) 20:28, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I do seem to remember a vague reference to Niven. I think it was when the characters listed their favorite books and compared lists. Niven was on the lists, but not as high as Oz and Wonderland and the other stories they actually visited. Of course it's been years since I read it, and I don't actually have a copy available, so I could be wrong. 67.142.171.23 (talk) 07:40, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is Ringworld mentioned in Niven's Number of the Beast? 

message: With as much of the discussion on the page that is rooted in the books, I am somewhat disappointed by the Ruby Slippers, instead of Silver Shoes. The Ruby Slippers are an invention of the movie (likely due to the prevalance of ruby items in other portions of the book); the Silver Shoes are what Baum put in the book. I would recommend clarifying this, and considering the book as the correct source (as it came first, and clearly the book inspired the movie, not the other way around). 108.253.69.87 (talk) 17:51, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ruby Slippers v. Silver Shoes 

message: "Titular" means that one has the title but not the substance.  A titular barnstormer would be one who cannot, in fact, barnstorm.  "Eponymous" means that something is named for this person; the Greek means something like "named for." J S Ayer (talk) 03:32, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  eponymous vs. titular 

message: The entire Inhabitants section is completely erroneous, from either an in-world or standard viewpoint. I am not sure whether it should be deleted completely or substantially edited. It makes a fundamental error that the world of Baum's Life and Adventures of Santa Claus -- a non-Oz book completely outside the Ozian canon and universe -- somehow supersedes or is otherwise a part of Oz. As a result, it inserts numerous non-Oz characters into Oz, presupposes a nomenclature and categorization of "fairies" that is nonexistent in Oz (though present in some of its neighboring countries), such as mermaids, who do not exist in Oz as it is a completely landlocked country. The section on the Nomes is the only one really relevant to Oz, but although the Nome King is the main antagonist of several of the early Oz books, he does not live in Oz. Has anyone else noticed these issues, and is there any sense of how this should be edited? I would not want to delete the entire section without some comment from others who have worked on this entry. Clevelander96 (talk) 12:06, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inhabitants section 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Would someone create a "see also" section at the bottom and include this?
Land of Oz (theme park)
Interzone826 (talk) 14:49, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  See Also...