Talk:Dactylic hexameter

message: Could someone add transliteration from the greek on the page? I know some greek letters, but not enough to read it, and I hate coming across something in another language I can't even pronounce when I'm reading. It breaks things up and makes it harder to analyze if I can't pronounce what I'm seeing. Bobbias (talk) 19:33, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

message: Instead of using the clumsy use of "U" to denote two-shorts-or-one-long, we could use Unicode to get the proper signs, like this:
: –⏕ | –⏕ | –⏕ | –⏕ | –⏑⏑ | –⏓
However, while this looks fine to me, I suspect some may lack the proper fonts and get squares or something else instead of the intended signs, so I'm a bit wary of making the edit. Are there guidelines for things like this? Alatius 20:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unicode notation? 

message: There are two places in Iliad I.108, I believe, which show the influence of the lost digamma. The first is at the third foot caesura, where there is now a hiatus.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seadowns (talk • contribs) 10:47, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Digamma

message: Ovid used this form in this famous work. Should it not be mentioned? - Tbsdy lives (talk) 12:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Metamorphoses and De Rerum Natura]] 

message: I think the article brushes aside the humanist poets too easily. There was a really remarkable output of hexameter verse by people such as Vida, Politian, Pontanus, Fracastor, Naugerius, Palearius, to name some Italians alone. If not the highest poetry, they showed an amazing virtuosity in their command of Latin. A good place to find them, recommended by Henry Hallam, is Pope's anthology Selecta Poemata Italorum Qui Latine Scripserunt.  Seadowns (talk) 09:44, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Humanist Latin Poets

message: Is the description of "Meyer's bridge" in the article correct?
: The first, known as Meyer's Bridge, is in the second foot: if the second foot is a dactyl, the two short syllables must be part of the same word-unit.
As stated, this seems to be violated by the opening lines of the Iliad and the Aeneid both:
:μῆνιν ἄειδε, θεά, Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος
:Arma virumque cano, Troiae qui primus ab oris
As far as I understand the quoted rule, it says that the word break between "ἄειδε" and "θεά" is not allowed, nor is the one between "virumque" and "cano". Neither does the English verse
: This is the forest primeval. The murmuring pines and the hemlocks
follow the rule. If it is as universal as it is implied, shouldn't the article contain more examples that actually respect it? –Henning Makholm (talk) 15:28, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This stuff about bridges should be left out. Any value it may have would be too advanced for a rudimentary article like this. Also, is a word-unit something different from a word?  Seadowns (talk) 00:37, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. It isn't an essential part of the description of a hexameter, in view of the fact that the very first line of the Iliad contradicts it. I will delete the paragraph. Kanjuzi (talk) 06:02, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bridges 

message: The statement that a caesura is a break in sense, rather like a comma, is incorrect. It is the end of a word, which may or may not coincide with a break in sense.  Seadowns (talk) 18:42, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite right. I have changed it. Kanjuzi (talk) 05:21, 30 August 2017 (UT
I suggest cutting out the last two sentences of the paragraph.. The last but one is unimportant, if true. The last one has no meaning that I can find. Is there an example of what it is trying to say? Seadowns (talk) 00:29, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caesuras

message: "The sixth foot is always a spondee, though it may be anceps". "Always" means forever, permanently... there should be no "though" as "always" is an absolute; never varied. Please fix it whom is better then I at poetry.
108.38.36.17 (talk) 23:16, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Grammar First, then Poetry 

message: I have no idea why the second note on this page is written in bold text. I've tried looking at the page but can't seem to figure it out. Anybody else know? 23:12, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bolded note? 

message: English metrical form relies on stress, not quantity. The vowel sound in 'pig' is not made longer by having two consonants after it. Pamour (talk) 21:47, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  English hexameter 

message: "The following lines of Ennius would not have been felt admissible by later authors since they both contain repeated spondees at the beginning of consecutive lines..." But this isn't actually true, since for example Virgil writes in Dido's curse, in consecutive lines (Aeneid 4.607f):
:Sol, qui terrarum flammis opera omnia lustras,
:| – – | – – | – – | – u u | – u u | – – |
:tuque harum interpres curarum et conscia Iuno,
:| – – | – – | – – | – – | – u u | – – |
Perhaps the statement should be modified or omitted therefore. Kanjuzi (talk) 20:40, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ennius's spondees 

message: NOT too hard to make "quantitative"
Heartless soulless brainless shameless needless all elders
With those firearms* from hell (madnesses under utter lies).
What then now? when then that next death by gunner-elders?
Oh what an evil! utter dystopia of all-gunner earth-world.
Youths many ladies as well: who then victim anew now?
Guiltless dead now, underground by hand number of wrong.
Mighty police**? number all with a gun-thing a swift unaliveness.
Where then law? where law? here not not much thereof indeed,
Hatred alone many imperialist steady shameless utter lies.
:That's very good! Although surely underground can't be scanned – – – or utter lies u – –, unless perhaps you have a very strong Irish accent? Kanjuzi (talk) 10:27, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  WRONG 

message: If you look at the teachings by the ancients on the heroics/hexameters, you'll find that the dactyl was not at the heart of it. Why? Because long syllables add solemnity, not short syllables. The short syllables simply added variation, levity, flexibility. The hexameters were meant to be solemn, such that the more spondees, the better/more serious.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.57.144.205 (talk • contribs) 19:36, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: By that measure vergil is a better poet than Homer. 2600:8806:340B:E100:A0EA:A3B4:8CB3:563A  03:19, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "dactylic" is a misnomer 

message: Specifically on the Latin section, the divisions between the feet look awfully like an 'l'. Perhaps using a '/' or breaks of some sort would make it less confusing, especially to those learning about this topic for the first time. PeelitePowellite (talk) 21:38, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change the divisions between feet to a '/' ? 

message: I've spent some time reading this page on my Android phone with no problems whatever, but after switching to my laptop, which is running Ubuntu 18, I've found that although the long syllable sign and anceps signs are perfectly legible, I can no longer see the short syllable sign (as you all know, the bottom half of a circle). I have this problem both in Brave, my browser of choice, and in Firefox.
I only point this out, because on other articles where potential formatting problems are present, information is provided in a box at the top indicating which upgrades the user needs. I'm too backward with tech to be able to do this for myself, so I leave the matter in your capable hands.
Daedalus 96 (talk) 13:56, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That's very interesting. Are you talking about the short syllable sign in the general pattern (–⏕ | –⏕ | –⏕ | –⏕ | –⏑⏑ | –X), or as it appears on top of letters such as ǎ? Kanjuzi (talk) 06:46, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text formatting? 

message: I think the article gives too narrow a view of hexameters, in Latin at any rate. What it says about their epic character is quite true, but they were also used for didactic, pastoral and satirical poetry, and for lighter, conversational poems like Horace's Epistles. They were a sort of poetic maid-of-all-work. If people agree perhaps the article could be filled out to cover this. Someone may know more about the Greek position than I do, but at least I know Hesiod and the pastorals used them. Seadowns (talk) 14:10, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character of Hexameters 

message: I draw attention to the sentence "The following lines of Ennius would not have been felt admissible by later authors since they both contain repeated spondees at the beginning of consecutive lines...". Where does this idea come from? It is certainly incorrect. In Aeneid 1, for example, we find lines beginning with two spondees at 15, 31, 32, 34, 36, 37, 40, 44...., so it is neither rare nor forbidden for it to occur in consecutive lines. It would really be better if this article were based on standard published works on Greek and Latin metre, none of which seems to have been quoted as yet. Kanjuzi (talk) 08:36, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spondaic lines 

message: In the current version of the article: "The hexameter came into Latin as an adaptation from Greek long after the practice of singing the epics had faded. Consequentially, the properties of the meter were learned as specific "rules" rather than as a natural result of musical expression." There is surely no evidence for this. Mentions of the hexameter in metrical writers are not very detailed and don't discuss specific rules at all. Also it seems unlikely. Most people, when composing poetry in their own language, simply write what comes naturally in imitation of patterns they have heard before; they don't consult a rule-book or need lessons. So I think this idea also needs to go. Kanjuzi (talk) 10:57, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Learning from rules?

message: As you can see, I have added a paragraph on how to tell short from long syllables. I hope this will not seem unnecessary to anyone. First of all, the article on Scansion is purely about English scansion so not helpful here. Secondly, this metre is the probably the first or even the only metre students of Latin will study, and knowing syllable lengths is a necessary preliminary.
Another thought concerning this article is this. Many readers will be interested only in Latin, since the number who study Ancient Greek as well is very limited. So they are likely to skip over any paragraphs discussing Greek. For that reason, it might be better to do the introductory paragraph on how to scan a line into feet using a Latin example, rather than a Greek one, and then after that to add a paragraph on Greek hexameter poetry which wouldn't be essential reading for an understanding of the subject. Kanjuzi (talk) 16:52, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Syllables 

message: It is totally absent a complete discussion about italian hexameter, both in original poetry and in traslation of classical poetry, as an exhaustive treatment of usage of hexameter in spanish, catalan and portuguese literature. 94.185.74.172 (talk) 10:05, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italian hexameter