Talk:Arrowslit

message: I wonder if "balistraria" is the Latin plural, and the article should in that case be Balistrarium. See http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=F_P5ZM01cFwC&pg=PA283&lpg=PA283&dq=balistrarium&source=bl&ots=G3B4haZCdS&sig=R3JEHYjKQ21vs__Yx2wsncygS5c&hl=en&ei=JFI1SsDdPJG5jAeOi_2FCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5
Richard Keatinge (talk) 22:43, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind that, if balistraria are "more often referred to as an arrow loop or arrow slit",why is the article at balistraria? Nev1 (talk) 02:37, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Article name

message: I've changed the assessment on structure (I presume structure had been redone but no assessment made).  However, the coverage of the topic is quite UK-based and could perhaps do with a wider view of the arrow slit in fortification generally, so I've down graded coverage to not met.  All in all, it should now assess out as C. Monstrelet (talk) 07:04, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Revision to assessment

message: The lead states: "An arrowslit (often also referred to as an arrow loop, loophole or loop hole, and sometimes a balistarium)" etc. Isn't arrowslit = balistarium a mistake? If correct, then rather balistraria (see below). Is it justified to mention it here? The term balistarium is not defined anywhere on Wikipedia, and hardly anywhere outside it, at least not in a quotable online source. There is a small family of words, all very rarely used, which apparently took different meanings in history, of which balistarium mainly meaning now: artillery position. So not an arrow slit!<BR>
What definitions I found:
With double-L, ballistarium
* ballistarium = the place where the ballista is worked, Plaut. Poen. 1, 1, 74 (cf. ballista fin.). Original source IS stated, Poenulus by Plautus (), so it's reliable, except that 1) it's drama in verse form, with a literary, not word-by-word translation; and b), it's in a Roman, not medieval context, so it applies to a different type of fortification than a medieval castle. For a), consider that, if I got it right, he translates "ballistast" by "barb of bale" (bale in the archaic meaning of "evil considered as a destructive force"). Poetically rather than literally.
* ballistarium = Perhaps an emplacement for a ballista, but more likely where they were stored. Plaut., Poen. 1.1.74; RIB 1280–1. [Johnson 1983] Quotes again same work, Poenulus by Plautus. Here  is the original Latin with another American English translation, by Paul Nixon, in a book first published in 1932, and Nixon translated "ballistario" (dative case of ballistarium) with "barbican".
* ballistarium, ballistarii = "artillery emplacement" (same as for balistarium with one L). Original source is NOT stated, so unreliable (, ,...)
* ballistarium = missile. Original source is NOT stated, so unreliable ()
With one L, balistarium
* balistarium, balistarii = "artillery emplacement". See Joseph D. Lesser, Latin - English Dictionary, self-published, 2018. NOT a very reliable source at first glance, not clear where the "author" (self-publishes dictionaries on an industrial scale) has taken his info from. The content circulates freely online, see  for instance. 
* balistarium = "a shed or magazine in which balistae were kept" (19th c.). See John W. Mollett, Illustrated Dictionary of Words Used in Art and Archaeology, p. 31, London 1883
* balistarium = crossbowman (14th c.). See  Inquisitions Post Mortem, Edward III, File 178, so I guess from around 1377, quote: "... the entire serjeanty being held of the king in chief by service of finding a crossbowman (balistarium) in York castle at his own costs for 40 days if there is war in co. York."
With STR, balistrarium
It shows that in 2009  has introduced here  the term "balistraria", even as the main term rather than "arrow slit", he even renamed the article "balistraria" (pl. balistrariae), and since then editors have been struggling with it.
This does indeed seem to be the right word for this article, it looks very much like a synonym for arrow slit:
* balistraria, noun, plural balistrariae. Definition: a narrow often cruciform opening in a wall (such as a tower or fortress) for discharging arrows (as from a crossbow).
Even better here , Rev. Thomas Davidson, Chambers's Twentieth Century Dictionary, London & Edinburgh 1903: "Balistraria, bal-is-trar'i-a, n. An aperture or loophole in the wall of a fortification through which crossbowmen might discharge their bolts.  /  Balister (pbs.), name for an arbalester or crossbowman, also an arbalest or crossbow itself. [Low L. ballistrurius, balistra, a variant form of ballista, a crossbow.]", that's the connection. I will put the term back in as such. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 08:18, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for adding the information, Arminden. It makes sense to cover balistrariae in this article as they are so closely related to arrow slits. It occurs to me that it isn't clear whether balistraria differ from arrow slits, or whether it's just an alternative name. This comes down to the final sentence of the lead. If they do differ, it would be helpful to explain how (ie: are there adaptations specifically for crossbows). I think it would also be worth splitting the current statement about whether they can be found, as that applies to all loopholes covered by the article. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:07, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Balistarium: why here? Definition...?