Talk:Olive oil/Archive 1

message: :Olive oil was a central concept in Minoan culture of Crete, where it is thought to have roughly equated wealth.
Well.  A central product, sure.  And we can't read Linear A, so let's not get into 'concepts' of the Minoans. --MichaelTinkler
Oups! Sorry Michael! Just related what the people and exhibitions on the Knossos told me. Geez! --Anders Törlind
----
I've noticed that canned sardines are often packed with olive oil.  Should it be noted in the article that olive oil is useful as a preservative?  --LostLeviathan 01:41, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion header

message: How do you combine Extra Virgin with no more than 1% acidity with Virgin with no more than 2% acidity, and end up with Semi Fine with up to 3.3% acidity?  Gene Nygaard 21:13, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neat trick? 

message: I re-arranged things (I still don't think the overall flow is right, but at least similar things are a little more grouped together, hanging out with their friends).
I (or whoever) still need to write:
* A paragraph on how olive oil is manufactured;
* A section on olive oil in history (it's more than the Minoans);
* A table on the grading and classification (I haven't put it in yet because I have to learn more about how make a table) (And Gene is right about the arithmetic absurdities);
* A table on the market for olive oil--where it comes from (Spain, as it turns out, even when it says Product of Italy), and what countries consume it (this information is available on the IOOC website, but I haven't gotten around to extracting it yet).
And I bet there's more.  Thoughts?
DanielVonEhren 05:11, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Lots still needs to be done

message: I've tried to organize the knowledge about olive oil in way that's appropriate for an encyclopedia. Here's an outline I've come up with; feel free to beat up on it.
My organizing principle here is that if someone visits the olive oil Wiki, they most likely want to know what 'extra-virgin' means, then whether it's healthy, and so on. In other words, I've organized it around what visitors will want to read.
At the top, start with a link to the Wiki Cookbook for olive oil recipes.
# Commercial market for olive oil
## Consumer classification. Similar to the current article, only better
## How olive oil is made. A narrative of the common way to manufacture olive oil
## The olive oil market.
### Marketing bodies. What organizations exist, and are they official, quasi-governmental, or self-appointed
### World-wide production. Who makes it
### World-wide consumption. Who eats it
# Olive oil and health. Current research and thought on whether olive oil is good for you (or at least less bad than all of those other oils).
# Olive oil in history
## Biological origins and spread of the olive tree. Probably a brief summary, and a pointer over to the olive tree article (which, by the way, needs work)
## Cultural significance of olive oil.  It's more than just food
### Minoans. The Room of the Olive Press at Knossos, and so on
### Greeks. Athena, the Olympics, the City Olive, and so on
### Bible. The symbolism and imagery of olive oil in the Old and New Testaments
### Romans. The Imperial Olive
### Other cultures. Being a whitebread middle-middle-middle American male :-), I have no idea, but there are surely others. For example, do olives figure prominently in the Koran?
Thoughts?
DanielVonEhren 22:36, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A proposed outline

message: Regarding this "second name" which is quite prominent in the first paragraph: 1) Is there *any* use of this name outside the poem/recipe mentioned? All google hits refer to that directly or indirectly. 2) Lucca is a specific type of olive (grown in Lucca, Italy), so it appears that "Lucca crown" means "finest oil made from Lucca olives" (or perhaps a typo for "Lucca grown", oil grown in Lucca?) in which case it can not be said that "lucca crown" is a synonym for "olive oil" any more than "bordeaux" is a synonym for "wine".
I propose that the reference to "lucca crown" be struck from the article, or moved to a position of less prominence. --Sysin 3 July 2005 21:12 (UTC)
:Hey! Thanks for your message on my talk page. I'm not surprised that a Google search only finds references to "Lucca crown" which link back to the poem. Since the term was in use during the 19th century, it would likely not be properly indexed on the internet. "Lucca crown" is unlikely a typo for "Lucca grown" because the next line in Sydney Smith's poem contains the word "town", which rhymes with "crown" and not "grown". However, I will need to do more research on the etymology of that term before I can know definitively that it is used outside of the poem, and with significantly more prevalence. I've asked another Wikipedian who appears to be more familiar with gastronomy to respond here (give it maybe 2 or 3 days.) In the meantime, please feel free to move the reference to another place you feel is more appropriate. We can always change back to this version at a later time. --HappyCamper 3 July 2005 21:59 (UTC)
::I agree, "grown" is an unlikely typo. Even if "Lucca crown" was a common term in the 19th century, did it refer to olive oil in general, or did it specifically refer to olive oil from Lucca?
Found elsewhere:
: Re: crown as a verb - it just slapped me in the face when I reread the poem -
: "Four times the spoon with oil of Lucca crown,  And twice with vinegar procured from town;"
: in other words pour four spoons of olive oil and two spoons of vinegar over the other ingredients, the classic oil/vinegar proportion. "Crown" it with Lucca olive oil and vinegar.  ... Mothperson 13:42, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Lucca Crown"? 

message: When olive oil is used for deep frying, potato chips for example, how often can the olive oil be reused, how long can it be stored in a deep fryer, how can you tell if it needs replacing?
--58.178.128.184 02:49, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You shouldn't use straight olive oil for high heat frying.  You can blend it up to about 50% with a more heat tollerant oil like soy, corn, peanut, or sunflower.
Olive oil can stand up to 210C. Frying shouldn't get that hot. Source: oliveoilsource.com-olive chemistry-smoke point.
 Olive oil bearly gets hydrogenated in even industrial settings, right? Anyway, it's too expensive to be used like that. If the first fact is true, it would be because of low amounts of PUFA's, right? Some sites say all vegetable oil can get partially hydrogenated but some say only PUFA's can. Which is right? Is there a difference between EVOO and refined olive oil on this subject? Should I change what I edited on cooking oil about olive oil?
 I can answer my own question here: "http://www.coconutoil.com//oiling_america.htm." Go to "three double bonds" after command-f and you'll see that only polyunsaturated oils with threee double bonds get partially hydrogenated. Olive oil is very low in these.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.42.30 (talk) 20:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Olive oil - used in cooking 

message: Why is a link given to Sydney Smith's dressing? What make it more special, more worthy of a link than all of the hundreds of other salad dressing recipes containing olive oil? (or the thousands of recipes in general containing olive oil, for that matter...)
:Its an remnant of the early history of the article, go a few edits back until you find references to "Lucca Crown". It's odd, but not very bothersome.Sysin 21:56, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sydney Smith??? 

message: Is healthful a real word? Shouldn't it be healthy? nick 17:15, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To answer my own question almost instantly, it appears it is: . I guess it must only be used in american english. nick 17:15, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Healthful? 

message: In the article, it says how Olive Oil's high monounsaturated fat content is considered healthy. Canola oil has nearly as much monounsaturated fat, along with more polyunsaturated fat, and a higher smoke point. I think that alternatives to this "healthy" conception of oil should be mentioned. Corn oil is similar as well, and maybe both articles should be expanded more throughly along with this one of course. 71.250.60.232 14:51, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canola Oil comparison 

message: I don't see what the Herbs & spices template has to do with Olive Oil. I understand that you can put herbs and spices into olive oil, but that's a pretty weak link imho.--Nicko 03:22, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm taking it out. --Dodiad 07:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Herbs & Spices template 

message: 100 g olive oil = 90 ml??? It`s absurd! It means a density of 1.11 g·cm^-3, heavier than water, and olive oil would sink into! Olive oil mean density is more or less 0.92 g·cm^-3, so 100 g of olive oil = approx. 108 ml 212.51.52.8 22:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Density 

message: I didn't review the conflict of interest rules before I posted a link to a series of photographs that comprehensively document the journey of an olive through an olive mill from beginning to end on the "external link" portion.  Please consider it.  I'm the olive oil expert at Zingerman's Deli and photographed my time at an olive harvest in Paso Robles, CA.  http://drygoodsnotes.blogspot.com
Solomonj 06:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Conflict of Interest External Link

message: For some reason "EVOO" was redirecting to the human health section of this article. It now directs to the article itself. Rockhopper10r 02:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A date-limited [http://books.google.com/books?num=100&q=evoo+olive+OR+oil+OR+virgin+OR+mediterranean+date%3A1990-2002&btnG=Search+Books&as_brr=0 Google book search shows that it was being used by 1999/2000, before Rachel Ray started on the Food Network.  She has no doubt popularized it.  Anyway, a redirect isn't so bad unless it is confusing or misdirecting people, which I don't see that this one would. --Macrakis 19:51, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: EVOO redirect

message: Olive Oil is the main ingredient in Tattoo Goo. For those who don't now, it is the largest product sold exclusively to help aid in the healing of new tattoos. I don't know the reason for the olive oil in the goo, but it sure does make it smell nice!!
Vodkajcl 02:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tattoo Goo 

message: I've edited the following from:
"Before 2,000 B.C. the Egyptians imported olive oil from Crete, Syria and Israel so it was obviously an important item of commerce and wealth."
to
"Before 2,000 B.C. the Egyptians imported olive oil from Crete, Syria and Palestine."
According to the wikipedia article on the history of ancient Israel, the Kingdom of Israel was not established till 930 BC, so it did not exist during 2000 BC. I deleted the "so it was obviously an important item of commerce and wealth." since a dictionary should not establish theoretical conclusion, but rather report facts. Perhaps is the wording changes it could work out.
Hmmm, Your changes do not appear.
I just read the article today Feb 5, 2007 and several incorrect references to Israel still exist.  I edited them to read Canaan or Philistine.  Interesting to see if it will be changed back by some who can't distinguish between what they want to be true and what has been established in the bible, Torah and through science.
Alexneophile (talk) 11:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: History / Middle East

message: I find it amazing that this article does not mention the processes that are employed (either traditionally or industrially) to produce olive oil. If someone knows this, a section or a sentence would be welcome.
It may be extremely simple or obvious but it's not obvious to those of us that live in places where olives and olive oil are much less common. Thanks! —mako (talk•contribs) 01:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess you missed the section Olive oil#Olive oil extraction which in turn points to the main article on the topic, Olive oil extraction... --Macrakis 19:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How is [[olive oil]] produced? 

message: Olive oil can also be classified by the maturity of the olive used for production. Actually oil produced from unripe olives has a much stronger and different flavor. It is actually bitter, more intense, more fresh with fruitier flavor and usually does not have a clear color. It is not suitable for frying and it is not generally preferred for cooking. It can be produced only at specific months (at the start of a season) and is more expensive (and rare) than extra virgin olive oil. Actually it is the best oil to eat raw on salads.--195.167.60.23 11:10, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Olive oil from unripe olives 

message: The reference to types of olives lists Frantoio, etc. -- These tend to be the Tuscan olives, but in the south of Italy the olives tend to be other varietals.  The new FS17 variety that was specifically bred for high oil content might be worth mentioning someplace.  I don't think a digression on types of olives would work unless it is set up as a separate page somewhere.  Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jchandler2730 (talk • contribs) 23:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Types of Olives 

message: I created a page all about Unfiltered Olive Oil here: http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzz/Unfiltered_Olive_Oil.  Of course, I won't add it myself but if someone thinks it contributes to the page I would be honored.
:This page doesn't seem to meet the criteria of our external links policy. Thanks for asking on the Talk page, though. --Macrakis 19:51, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links

message: Regarding those changes in data , did they come with a source? The 97% production of Spain, Greece and Italy refers to european production level, not global one. Is there any source for the rest of the changes? If not they should be reverted. Miskin 12:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent changes

message: I'd like to add a link to a food wiki that discusses how to store olive oil which I think is important information to know. I contributed to that article and came back to find it improved upon.    Please look at this link and let me know if you agree that the link is worth adding. I'm still new to wikipedia and made the mistake of adding some links without explaining them and having them removed as junk.  --Drewsachs 00:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Link Proposal

message: I am tempted to remove the abbreviation of EVOO for extra virgin olive oil since it is not an abbreviation for it but a trademarked name thought up by a cooking celebrity. Any thoughts?
Rilr 16:22, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree. Biagini 00:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove EVOO abbreviation? 

message: Looks like the image was deleted from Commons due to a stock photo exchange permissions issue. Does anyone have a decent photo of a cruet of olive oil?-Wafulz 16:13, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: The adulteration and substitution of extra virgin olive oil is discussed at length in this article. A section about this should be added. Badagnani 02:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the article "Slippery Business" by Tom Mueller in the The New Yorker. It mentions some brands as being adulterated, including Bertoli. There will likely be some stink developing over this naming of names. Most certainly the article needs to mention adulteration, since it is so ubiquitous a practice, one that seems to be openly tolerated by the European authorities, particularly in Italy. I also notice that Bertoli has no corporate presence on the net, and I cannot find any information about its corporate ownership. Bertoli needs its own article. --Ace Telephone 23:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, try the correct spelling, Bertolli (which is by the way a terrible article, but that's another matter). As for their corporate Web site, Google easily finds their site. It is also easy enough to find that the brand now belongs to Unilever. --Macrakis (talk) 23:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adulteration and substitution 

message: I could not get to the link to the USDA standards of grades of olive oil. I'm new to wikipedia and I cannot edit the reference section in olive oil. The edit this page just lists references. The link to USDA standards of grades of olive oil has changed to http://www.ams.usda.gov/standards/oliveoil.pdf
Abee60 18:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: The relative prevalence of pesticide (and other chemical) use in various growing regions should be noted, as should be tests detecting residues of such chemicals. Badagnani 21:28, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pesticide use 

message: This attestation of the wandering Hebrews being the first to press olive oil is ridiculous, as residue dated to 4000 BC has been found in Crete. According to Biblical scholars, the Universe was only created in 4004 BC, meaning that the Exodus had to occur much later. This of course doesn't mesh with scientific dating. Alexneophile (talk) 11:37, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: I removed these from the article's link section. Information from sources should be incorporated into and cited in the article. Editors wishing to use these sources can access them from here; they should not be added back to the article as just links. Ham Pastrami (talk) 10:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Information sources 

message: I am removing these links since there has been no comment. Ham Pastrami (talk) 04:37, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remaining extlinks 

message: I'm not sure why these are here. Do these websites offer information about olive oil that cannot be found in other sources? If so, put the information in the article and cite them. If not, they shouldn't be linked to. If the museums themselves are of interest, they should be discussed in the article in some way, not simply promoted with links. Ham Pastrami (talk) 11:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Museum links

message: I can't even tell what this site is for. Ham Pastrami (talk) 11:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: unctad.org

message: This is a good article but it could use more information on the cooking characteristics of olive oil, i.e. can you use it for frying? etc.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.166.60 (talk) 14:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs more info 

message: I found a dead link at the reference for this line in the Human health section: "Several scientific studies doubt some of the previously stated positive effects and state several negative effects of olive oil such as impairment of the dilation of the arteries.[24]" 5Q5 (talk) 23:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.TJRC (talk) 01:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad reference link 

message: At one point in the article it claims that one benefit is to displace the omega 6/omega 3 ratio to a more healthy ratio. Olive oil contains quite a lot of omega 6, but little omega 3. Almost all sources recommend a 2:1 or at best 1:1 ratio of omega 6 to 3 as the healthiest, so I think a source should be found that would support the belief that more omega 6 over omega 3 would be healthy.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by PEiP (talk • contribs) 20:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Omega 3/6 ratio 

message: I've noticed that the regulation section is rather big and unwieldy, and considering olive oil is quite a broad topic with thousands of years of history, I think this ought to be split off into its own article, and be retained in summary style in this article. Any thoughts? —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 01:16, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regulation 

message: I would like to point out that the reference given for some studies for adverse health effects of olive oil, is actually more or less a biased article written by the Pritikin Center's chief doctor, a center which commercially promotes the so-called 'Pritikin diet'. 
This commercial diet is known for the antipathy to fats and oils of any kind. Even though i do agree that research into any negative health effects of olive oil should ultimately be included, i hardly think that that should be drawn from a commercially-driven article, which cites a handful medical studies, especially in the light of many tens of studies that highlight the positive health effects of olive oil. The ref is here: Olive_oil#cite_note-oliveoiltruth-26 I would please like your input on this. KLA (talk) 04:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While I don't personally have an opinion on this matter, I think you might be able to find people better suited to help at the Fringe Theories Noticeboard. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 05:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Negative Health Effects of Olive Oil? 

message: While I'd like to remove the recent info added by , there seems to be good info in there. However I've restrained myself to just pulling the linkspam for the Greek website added to the end of each contribution. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 19:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, though it should probably checked for copyright violations. --Ronz (talk) 19:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't find anything obvious, but I'm starting to see a thinly-veiled POV slant towards Mediterranean olive oil over others. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 20:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the large sections as copyright violations. The information was a cut-and-paste from the linked sites. --Ronz (talk) 20:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Glut of unreferenced info 

message: Hi I would like to change this page to be semi-protected.  i would like to change it to semi-protected because there is great information and I don't want great information to be vandalised
Thank you
--Cream horn 01:30, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change this page to semi-protected 

message: I have been a producer of highest quality extra vergin olive oil in Tuscany for over 20 years and have a very good knowledge of the process.
I would propose a more accurate wording in the section of label wording, especially of the term "First cold press". Commercial labels tend to confuse the consumer with nice sounding words that are often meaningless or even making believe things that are not factual.
"Cold" is a subjective and not unique term, it may range from "cold water" that may be anywhere above zero degrees centigrade up to well more than 20°C, to "cold weather" which has a different meaning in Alaska and in Central America. So what is "cold pressed"? The natural (environmental) processing temperature of olives in Sicily or Maroc may be higher than the processing temperature in November in Tuscany with added heat. So while processing temperature may influence the quality if it is too high (generally should be below 35°C), it may be lower with added heat in one region than without added heat in another.
"First press" is non-sensical as with today's efficient machines producing high pressure there is no "second press".
Toscanaman (talk) 16:38, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think there is a E.U. regulation defining the "cold press". I' ll try to find and post it. 91.140.99.88 (talk) 18:14, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "cold pressed" is a dubious (non scientific) definition 

message: I don't know what this part means?  Should it say oxidized?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.173.193 (talk) 17:05, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Olive oil is less reactive? 

message: This doesn't add up:
:The US imported 28,950,000 US gallons (109,600 m3) of olive oil in 1994, a 215% increase from 1984. The US is Italy's biggest customer, importing 22% of total Italian production of 131,600,000 US gallons (498,200 m3) in 1994.
Since 22% of 498,200 is 109,600, this implies that all US imports come from Italy and nowhere else. And that seems unlikely. Maybe the first sentence should be "...of olive oil from Italy in 1994." Given that these numbers are unsourced I'd like to remove these two sentences. Rees11 (talk) 20:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Found your source; the problem is that the wording changed subtly after the source went offline. See here; the number given is the amount of olive oil that was exported from Italy to the US, thus it neatly equals 22% of the total Italian production of that year. Here's where it was introduced, and here's where it got changed. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 19:04, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  US import numbers don't add up 

message: Good evening, 
I wrote the serving suggesions section, but it was rejected.
I apologise if I made some mistake, I would know why this section is incorrect, because it contained many chef suggestions.
I would also know why the link is not correct: it is not a commercial page and the video linked could not be  directely added to wikipedia page, I thought it was the only way to show it.
Thank you in advance for your attention
Yours sincerely
:I put links to the relevant Wikipedia Policies in the log message. The particular sections that I think apply are:
:*WP:ELNO "Links normally to be avoided... Links to web pages that primarily exist to sell products or services"
:*WP:NOTHOWTO "...a Wikipedia article should not read like a how-to style manual of instructions..."
:I also don't consider the source you cited to be a reliable secondary source per WP:SOURCES. Rees11 (talk) 17:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serving Suggestions and link to ''out to taste extra virgin olive oil'' 

message: I checked the Encyclopedia of medicine in the Bible and the Talmud and couldn't find anything about bad breath and olive oil. The Talmud does recommend gargling with olive oil to relieve pain in the throat (Berachot 36a), and olive oil, wine and spices for restoring memory. Rees11 (talk) 22:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talmud 

message: The term IOOC is used throughout this article, and is explained as meaning the International Olive Oil Council. However, this organisation actually refers to itself as the IOC (International Olive Council). Both terms are confusing however, since an explanation of the acronym is only given once in the article. Readers dipping in to the article, as I did, would be likely to look up these terms elsewhere on Wikipedia and find that the IOOC was the 'Iranian Offshore Oil Company', as I did, or that the IOC was the 'International Olympic Committee'. It would be useful to have at least a stub article on Wikipedia for the International Olive Council, to which references in this article could link. This would make it easy to understand the acronym, even if a reader didn't read the whole article.
Jowiltshire (talk) 11:16, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion over acronym IOOC 

message: olive oil actually contains more omega 6 than sunflower oil, but only sunflower oil had that section it's  (it's a direct copy from here): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunflower_oil#Negative_health_effects Markthemac (talk) 19:28, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  negative health effect added from the sunflower oil page