Talk:List of unaccredited institutions of higher education/Archive 1

message: Couldn't we put this page at List of unaccredited educational institutions? The new title is a bit too long, I feel. Proteus (Talk) 19:59, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: "Some schools have initiated law suits against Oregon for unconstitutional bias against some of these schools."
Which ones? On what legal basis? -- The Anome 00:22, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
I posted some added info, but it keeps getting vandalised.(erased)
* It's not being vandlized. A good deal of the information you added bore a slanted point of view, and unencyclopedic language. I simply clarified some of the point of view statements. – ClockworkSoul 07:26, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 2004-5

message: This article's AFD debate gained consensus to keep. Johnleemk | Talk 13:10, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed AFD 

message: **Created List of unlicensed accreditation associations of higher learning Arbustoo 07:29, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: List of unlicensed accreditation associations of higher learning

message: Trinity Evangelical Divinity School is accredited .
Unless Luther Rice College is a different entity from Luther Rice College and Seminary, they are too.  .
I don't know why a school like TEDS or DTS would even be suspected, let alone listed when they were easily found to be accredited.  A.J.A. 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TEDS, Luther Rice 

message: In addition to the link already in the article:    .
There shouldn't be any dispute whether this is a mill.  A.J.A. 19:57, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buxton University 

message: List of independent Baptist colleges is up for deletion, as is Independent Baptist College.  I strongly suspect that several of those listed will turn out to be unaccredited, the whole subject looks to me like Gastroturfing.  What are the accreditation details for Providence Baptist College? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JzG (talk • contribs) 05:47, February 6, 2006
:I just went through and added all the unaccredited ones. Providence Baptist College didn't show up on either CHEA or the DoE search, and their site didn't have any claims to accreditation I could see. I was surprised Hyles-Anderson wasn't already on the list.  A.J.A. 20:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some others... 

message: Holy Trinity Seminary in Irving, Texas is incorrectly listed as an institution of higher learning.  Holy Trinity Seminary is not itself an institution of higher learning (accredited or not).
*what Holy Trinity Seminary is—Holy Trinity Seminary is an academic residence affiliated with the (accredited) University of Dallas.  Holy Trinity Seminary does not itself teach academic classes nor does it grant degrees.  All seminarians at Holy Trinity Seminary are required to attend classes at University of Dallas and graduate with a degree in Philosophy and Letters from University of Dallas.  Of course Holy Trinity Seminary is not accredited, nor should it be, nor would anyone who understands the facts expect it to be.  As a residence affiliated with a college, a sorority-house chapter at a college would be expected to neither seek nor attain accreditation as an institution of higher education.  Nor would a fraternity-house chapter.
*secular academic residences—Indeed, let's compare the Holy Trinity Seminary academic residence to their direct secular analogue.  At Indiana University Bloomington, its humongous College of Arts of Sciences maintains a few academic residences separate from the general residence halls,, such as Collins Living-Learning Center and Global Village Living Learning Center, where the resident student is expected to pursue certain academic goals outside of the classroom.  These academic residences at Indiana University are not accredited by the North Central Association, but do not appear on this unaccredited list.  Nor should they.  Unless we list Collins Living-Learning Center and Global Village Living Learning Center academic residences at Indiana University Bloomington on this list (and we should not), then the Holy Trinity Seminary academic residence of University of Dallas should not appear on this list either.
*removal of Holy Trinity Seminary from this list—Because of the lack of research that went into incorrectly listing Holy Trinity Seminary on this list, I am removing Holy Trinity Seminary from this list.  Let this be a lesson learned for all editors of this list in not performing a minimally acceptable level of research to discern fact from assumption.  I will assume that this is a simple mistake and not an intended denominational insult (although the now-rewritten former content of the Holy Trinity Seminary article leads me to suspect that insult was intended by some non-Catholic). —Optikos 18:55, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On further thought, you are correct. As long as the article makes clear (as it does) that the seminary does not award degrees or certs. it doesn't need to be listed. Arbusto 07:52, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Non-institutions of higher learning

message: Somebody has just spammed Wikipedia with links to Regent International University. See for instance the err... generous offer of "honorary degrees" here The website is actually quite comical: 
:"Prestige is guaranteed. Just check into a hotel, restaurant, conference etc... as "John Doe" and as "Dr. John Doe". The way you'll be treated is tremendously different! Your life as a Doctor will change dramatically. It will get easier, you will receive the amount of respect a Doctor deserves in his or her professional and personal life. The advantages are countless. Think about it for a moment." 
I guess this may be another one of those fly-by-night web operations connected to other similar diploma mills, but I haven't investigated the issue. 
I'm also suspicious about American Global University School of Medicine, posted the other day. It looks very much like a diploma mill (name, exotic location yet catering towards American students, and with a mail address in Ohio).  u◦p◦p◦l◦a◦n◦d 11:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A couple of additions?

message: The discussion at Talk:University of the Nations is focusing on the question of unaccredited bodies (also the question of degree mills was mentioned) - the development ofa template has been mentioned. Paul foord
:Started at :Template:Unaccredited Just zis Guy you know? 10:58, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion at Talk:University of the Nations & possibilityof a template 

message: This isn't the "unaccredited institutions project", but let me treat it like that for now. Columbia Pacific University was a well-known unaccredited, distance learning institution from 1978 to until after 2000, when it was shut down by state authorities for not meeting their minimal licensing requirements. Defenders of the school have created a couple of websites, one of which has extensive (but selective) online documents. Those same defenders wrote most of the article here. I've been hoping for a long time that someone else would do the work of improving the NPOV, verifiability, and NOR condition of the article, but my procrastination hasn't born fruit. I have made a few edits over the last year, but much more is needed. However in the last week the defenders have appeared. This long discussion  following a short blog undoubtedly covers many of the same issues, and has at least two of the same participants. If anyone is interested in this field and would like another article to work on, may I recommend Columbia Pacific University? Cheers, -Will Beback 07:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CPU 

message: For those willing to watch out for vandalism, this is a list of the most commonly vandalized webpages. Usually the vandals removed information about the schools lacking accreditation. Arbusto 18:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Often vandalized unaccredited pages 

message: I have done some checking and turns out that this institution is a public university established by an Act of Parliament (Indira Gandhi National Open University Act, 1985 (Act 50 of 1985) - see exhaustive list of Indian central legislation here ).
Since this is the case, I don't think it is unjustified to remove this institution from this list. -- Bob K |  Talk 04:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Indira Gandhi National Open University

message: In the USA, there are 6 major accrediting agencies that are the "gold standard" of accreditation. Not all schools seek or even desire that accreditation for whatever reason. There are other accrediting agencies with different accrediting criteria that are also recognized as legitimate agencies by the U.S. Department of Education. The bottom line: in many states, if your state approves your application to open a university, you can open up - much of what comes after that is voluntary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ezratrumpet (talk • contribs) 
:We need a source for "accreditation is voluntary." Secondly, many of the arguments you make as used by diploma mills, and thus, are misleading. There is a hierarchy for accreditation in that not all forms of accreditation are equal:
:Vocational and religious accreditation groups have standards that are different from regional accreditors. For example, Trinity College (Florida) holds the Association for Biblical Higher Education. Trinity applied for regional accreditation from Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, but was rejected in December 2005 In December 2005, SACS reviewed the college and rejected the application for accreditation because "Trinity College of Florida failed to provide information demonstrating its compliance with Core Requirement 2.5 (Institutional Effectiveness), Core Requirement 2.7.1 (Program Length), Core Requirement 2.7.2 (Program Content), Core Requirement 2.8 (Faculty), Comprehensive Standard 3.7.1 (Faculty), and Core Requirement 2.9 (Learning Resources and Services) of the Principles of Accreditation.
:Thirdly, your claim that state approve an "application to open a university, you can open up - much of what comes after that is voluntary" is uncited and incorrect. Fact is, "each state has its own school licensing laws."
:Please present any further changes on accreditation here for discussion. CaliEd 04:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Regional vs. other accreditation

message: On unaccredited degrees.
Is Oregon the only state that disallows use of unaccredited degrees?
No. It is also illegal in North Dakota, see (www.state.nd.us/cte/post-secondary/programs/priv-post-inst/real-degree.pdf) and New Jersey, see (www.njtrainingsystems.org/) to use unaccredited degrees. It is illegal in Indiana, see (www.in.gov/cope/directory/) to use an unaccredited doctorate. See those states’ laws for details. Many other states are considering similar laws in order to prevent fraud. 
I'm not familiar with the details of the US situation, but there's at least two levels to the "legitimacy" question: legality per se, and what's generally accepted as a bona fide qualification from a "real school".  The article would ideally make both aspects clear, even in jurisdictions where accreditation is in some sense legally voluntary (as isn't the case in the ones I'm directly familiar with).  Alai 02:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Oregon, North Dakota, Indiana, New Jersey

message: Stamford International University is not accredited. 1) Its webpage does not claim it is accredited. 2) Missing from UNESCO's list for Malaysia, Thailand, and Singapore. 3) Malaysia's education department does not list it. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary then post it here. Arbusto 01:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Stamford International University

message: Rather than edit war, why not include candidate schools but mark them with an asterisk?  A.J.A. 20:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This canidate schools shouldn't be on the list, and schools that lost accreditation be on the list. With the example above, that school has 500 students and doesn't even have accreditation for the end of the Spring term. Whereas, BJU meets the minimum standards of accreditation. Arbusto 01:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Candidacy 

message: I am of the opinion that the list on this article is getting pretty unwieldy. I suggest that this list be removed and replaced with a link to the category page for Unaccredited institutions of higher learning. I see no point in having the redundancy of 2 lists of unaccredited institutions on Wikipedia. -- Bob K 06:32, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I disagree. Schools without articles should be listed here as a "buyer beware" which serves as an information list. Please explain what you mean by "Unwieldy"; its an aphlabetical list of unaccredited places. Arbusto 23:30, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List Getting Unwieldy 

message: For reference here are past articles that were listed, but were deleted. Arbusto 23:36, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted articles 

message: This is an extremely pov section, and also violates WP:NOT wikipedia is not a how to guide.--Crossmr 03:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing warning signs 

message: Not sure about how to represent/add this info. Any ideas?
http://www.uofcanbourne.org.uk
44 207 900 6917 (also used by university of Lamberhurst)  
243 Russell Gardens
W14 8EZ
University of Lamberhurst  http://www.uoflamberhurst.org.uk/ 
50 Great College St.London, SW1P 3
http://www.denbourne.org.uk/contacts.html
242 Russell Gardens
London, England
United Kingdom
W15 8EZ
Phone: +(44) 20-7100-9790
Fax: +(44) 20-7980-4900
website almsot identical to canbourne
http://www.bellingtonu.org.uk 44 207 900 6921 same as www.dorchesteru.org.uk
http://www.bedfordu.org.uk 44 207 900 6923 (same http://www.shaftesburyu.org.uk)
www.summersetu.org.uk 44 207 900 6924 same as www.strassfordu.org.uk
note www.sheppertonu.org.uk used 44 207 900 6922 as did www.sherwoodu.org.uk
44 207 900 6918 ashbourne www.ashbourneu.org.uk
Ashbourne University
50 London House, 260 Fulham Road,
London SW10 9EL
United Kingdom (Now offline)
SUMMERSET UNIVERSITY
30 Queens Rd
London NW4 2EH
United Kingdom
Tel\Fax: 44 207 900 6924
London College for Higher Education http://www.collegeoflondon.org/
2 Priory Court, Pilgrim Street
London, EC4V 6DE
United Kingdom
Fax: +44 (207) 900-1785
:Good additions. Feel free to add them yourself. Everyone can edit wikipedia. Arbustoo 03:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible additions/amendments 

message: I observed that the School of Accounting Management (SAM) (Trinidad and Tobago) was listed under your "list of unaccredited institutions of higher learning" based on information in the UNESCO database. The reason is that, SAM offers degrees from external universities and their accrediation would not be Trinidad based. Even the newly established University of Trinidad and Tobago (UTT) (http://www.utt.edu.tt/) or the well established University of the Southern Caribbean (http://usc.edu.tt/) (formerly Caribbean Union Collge) is not listed in the UNESCO database. SAM offers degrees/diplomas from the (a) Anglia Ruskin University (http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home.html) (b) University of Huddersfield (http://www.hud.ac.uk/) (c) London Metropolitan University (http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/) (d) National Computer Centre (UK)(http://www.nccedu.com/) (e) Henley Management College (http://www.henleymc.ac.uk/). SAM is further recognised by the state accrediting agencies the National Institute of Higher EducationResearch Science and Technology (NIHERST), the Accreditation Council of Trinidad and Tobago and participates in state funding program which subsidises tuition (by 100% for undergraduate degrees; 50% for graduate degrees) to all accredited institutions of higher learning. I think that the the listing is unfair to the School of Accounting and Management, its current students and graduates. Colinlezama 18:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not remove schools from the list without a source. Its missing from the UNESCO list. Until you provide one that is better, do not remove it. Arbustoo 23:51, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Schools issuing degrees from other universities isn't uncommon, and I'm not sure that any body legitimately doing so should be on this list. I also wonder if inclusion in such a list as this ought to rely on more than one source. Indeed I would contend that "Please do not remove schools from the list without a source" should read "Please do not add schools to the list without strong sourcing". --kingboyk 10:55, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

text: * That's exactly correct. The majority of the schools on this list are unsourced. JJay 12:21, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * The more sources, the better. Feel free to add them. Arbustoo 16:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

text: If other schools are lacking in accreditation add them. However, removing a school without a source is disruptive and will get you blocked. Arbustoo 02:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

text: None of that is WP:RS. Arbustoo 16:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I remove the school as http://www.nccedu.com/Find%20A%20Centre/centreinfo.asp?Z=1447 lists it as accredited. Arbustoo 03:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The School of Accounting and Management