Talk:Anthems in Animal Farm

message: *Beasts of England and discussion in Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Beasts of England
::The article consisted originally of the full seven stanzas of Beasts of England, from Animal Farm, and little else. Commentary has since been added. Depending on how the vote goes and how the article develops, it is likely either to be kept or transwikied to WIkisource, if there are no copyright problems. The only thing I would insist on vehemently is that the copyright situation is not simple. See my lengthy note in Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Beasts of England. The complicating factors are that the work seems to be public domain in some countries but not in others (specifically the U.S.); the work is definitely not out of print or unavailable and indeed has plenty of commercial value; what's being quote is short, but on the other hand is an entire poem, or song lyric; but then again it is not a real song that has any real 
existence outside the context of the book (it's not anthologized by itself, don't think it's performed or played except in dramatizations of Animal Farm). It's been suggested by User:Jmabel that the copyright holder be asked for permission; well, what's the current policy on "used-by-permission" with respect to text? Help, help, my head hurts. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:09, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'd like to see The Internationalle text directly adjacent to the lyrics here to facilitate comparison (and make it more obvious just why the whole of the poem is included) but I don't see a copyright problem here. It's review and commentary and I do think that to compare the whole of two short works (or portions, in this case) you need those works so that those who don't know them can see what you're talking about. I don't see much prospect of an independent market for a poem from Animal Farm and the poem itself certainly can't compete with or replace the book Animal Farm. Personally, I think this article is more likely to make people 
curious about the book and cause them to consider reading it... therby helping sales of the book. Jamesday 08:06, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion moved from [[Wikipedia:Copyright problems]] 

message: In the quoted text "between 'Clementine' and 'La Cucaracha'", is "Clementine" intended to mean Oh My Darling, Clementine? — Pekinensis 23:20, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Song 

message: Have removed the following 'cos it seems to be original research:
Although the songs are different structurally, the content of "Beasts of England" mirrors that of "The Internationale". The first line, 'Beasts of England, beasts of Ireland', shows the international nature of 'Animalism', just as "The Internationale" included the line 'unites the human race'. It speaks of a future utopia free from human control, and a time of plenty. In "The Internationale" this is only briefly mentioned 'And give to all a happier lot. Instead, "The Internationale" is more militant. More similar is the talk of shackles and chains. Compare 'Our own right hand the chains must shiver/Chains of hatred, greed and fear' in "The Internationale" with 'Rings shall vanish from our noses/And the harness from our back/Bit and spur shall rust forever/Cruel whips no more shall crack' in "Beasts Of England". Chains in "The Internationale" are metaphorical, and those in "Beasts Of England" are literal. The final similarity is between 'Tyrant Man' and 'No faith have we in prince or peer'.
--Technopat (talk) 18:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed unsourced text