Talk:Southern State Parkway

message: Where's Robert Moses? Where's discussion of toll booths & removal. Why does it have so many curves? Are there plans to make it safer or straighter?--JimWae (talk) 09:29, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Weren't a lot of these topics removed because of an alleged inability to cite sources? ----DanTD (talk) 11:21, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

text: The curves are a contemporary issue, so maybe they should be left alone or mentioned again in the history section. I agree that the history section should be expanded though, including the role of Robert Moses in the construction of the parkway.  ----DanTD (talk) 23:13, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: Somebody here posted the following line that has been called into question for a while;
Another service area was once located between exits 17 and 18.
I think I saw where this alleged service area may've been. In the eastbound lane just before the Parkway approaches Eagle Avenue & Hempstead Lake State Park, there's an indentation in the curb of the left-hand shoulder. Plus the median is wide enough there so that a small service area could've operated there by 1920's and 1930's standards. This may not be concrete evidence of a former service area, but it can create the perception that one could've been located there. Maybe somebody can investigate this, I don't know. ----DanTD (talk) 21:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: UPDATE - I finally found it on Historic Aerials Online, but I still can't save the link from that particular image, because that piece of shit website doesn't let me do it. ----DanTD (talk) 17:49, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The alleged former service area between Exits 17 & 18. 

message: This article is incorrectly named. The name of the parkway is "Southern Parkway", just as the sign says. "Southern State Parkway" is a colloquialism, albeit a ubiquitous one, but should not be used in an encyclopedia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greatsouthbay (talk • contribs) 13:52, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You sure about that? I know they've shortened signs and such for simplicity, but I didnt think they changed the name. (Kinda like how we can refer to our friend Jim as Jim, and write it that way too... but his real name is actually James). Anyway, would love to know if you can find a state doc showing it having been renamed. Best, ROBERTMFROMLI TALK/CNTRB 17:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure when "Southern State Parkway" came into common usage. I believe it was originally a reference to the fact that Southern Parkway (like all parkways in New York) are state parkways - part of the New York State Parkway System. If you look at that page, you'll see that there are some parkways that use the word "state', like Taconic State Parkway. Parkway signs are sometimes shortened but never change the name. There would be no reason to shorten it anyway, as the Taconic State Parkway sign shows. Newsday used to have an incredible historical website that had lots of documents listing it as Southern Parkway. But all one really has to do is look at the sign. :) Greatsouthbay (talk) 07:51, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Page 60 of the 2009 NYSDOT Traffic Data Report disagrees with you. There is a parkway on Long Island whose official name is the Southern Parkway, but this isn't it. – TMF 02:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

text: I'm not mistaking it for the other Southern Parkway, in Uniondale, which is only a few blocks long. There's also a second Northern Parkway, which intersects with it. I know that some  "official" websites, as well as maps, list it as Southern State Parkway, but there are also those that list it as Southern Parkway (http://www.greaternyroads.info/nypark/southern/index.htm), and others that list it both ways on the same page. This page lists "Southern Parkway" as being part of the Belt Parkway: http://www.nycroads.com/roads/belt/. Unfortunately, the Belt Parkway page on Wiki is incorrect, as it lists "Southern Parkway" as part of the Belt Parkway, but specifies that it's not the same as the "Southern State Parkway", when in fact, it is! The first few exits of Southern (state) Parkway is the easternmost part of the Belt Parkway. The earliest, official documents that I've seen list it as "Southern Parkway". Do you have an explanation for the sign? Anyway, I'm in no rush to change it. I was mainly throwing it out there for discussion. Thanks. Greatsouthbay (talk) 07:51, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Those two websites you list a self-published sources, and can't really be used as sources, but the report TMF linked above is an official source. When in doubt, you have to go with what the reliable sources tell you. Imzadi 1979 → 08:09, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

text: One is and one isn't. The second source is not only used in this article already, but many other articles on wiki. However, I haven't used either in the article. I used them to further the discussion on this page. The problem with "reliable sources", in this case, is that there are many, and they don't always agree. That's why I didn't change it. I understand how sticky an issue it is. Greatsouthbay (talk) 15:27, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What official agency publishes http://www.greaternyroads.info ? What official agency publishes http://www.nycroads.com ? Just because other articles improperly are using a self-published source does not mean the site is allowable. We're talking about this article, not them. The fact that this article is using an improper source means that a conscientious editor can remove any material cited to that source at any time if he can't replace the source. Once again though, the official agency in charge of the roadway should know the correct name of the road, even if they create signs that differ from their documents. MDOT omits the "M" from the diamond marker on green guide signs, but that doesn't mean that the freeway 2 miles south of me is not still called M-6. The signs for New York State Route 22 do not contain the words "New York State Route" and only have a shield shape with a "22". Does that mean that road is only called 22? Imzadi 1979 → 18:36, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

text: What makes you think a website has to be published by an "official agency" in order to be used on Wiki? It's not a self-published source". However, here's an "official" source for you. It took me about three minutes to find this, and I can assure you that there are more: http://www.mta.info/libus/bus_info/libinfo.htm. It's the Long Island division of the MTA. On this page they refer to Southern Parkway correctly, 3 times. They also refer to Northern Parkway correctly, which is often mistakenly called "Northern State Parkway", 8 times. As I've already said, I realize how ubiquitous a mistake it is, that it's even made it's way on to "official" websites, that I currently have no plans to change it and that I was interested in starting a discussion. I don't consider the website you refer to as "self-published" and don't think there's a valid reason to remove material that uses it as a source. You can edit it, but if another editor disagrees with you, you'll have to seek consensus for it. Greatsouthbay (talk) 03:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'm pretty sure that both http://www.greaternyroads.info and http://www.nycroads.com are created by and for roadgeeks. There is no formal editorial oversight like there is with a newspaper or formal media source. There is no established reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. They are essentially considered no more reliable than a blog from WordPress or a book printed by a vanity publisher. That's why they're not supposed to be used as a source, unless the author is considered to be an expert in his field. The best sources for highway information are the state agencies involved or newspapers, which isn't to assume that the facts published in newspapers will always be true. (The media are usually fairly inconsistent in how they abbreviate or reference non-named highways.) Imzadi 1979 → 04:48, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm lost on this one. Are we all agreeing that the NYS official document above is a valid source, and thus that the proper, full name (even if only designated as such on some (but not all) of the signs) is Southern State Parkway? If not, I am truly lost. ROBERTMFROMLI TALK/CNTRB 04:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

text: What I've been saying is that there are a number of "official" sources that are in conflict. I didn't change it. I just raised the issue. Greatsouthbay (talk) 05:39, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's the thing though; Even when the webmasters of both sites refer to the road as "Southern Parkway," they know that it's officially named the "Southern State Parkway," and expect most of their users to know the same thing. For the record, there's also a segment of the Belt Parkway that was named "Southern Parkway," not to mention a local street in Plainview, New York named "Southern Parkway," which you can find at Exit 11 on the SOB Expressway. ----DanTD (talk) 10:20, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Southern Parkway

message: I was advised to take GCP (from Brklyn) to the Northern State instead of taking Southern State - in order to avoid the many curves on SSP. However, GCP is also extremely curvy and also hilly. I have since been told it is not a very safe route in icy weather. The SSP article mentions safety, curves, & improvements for safety's sake. I do not see any comments on this in the GCP article. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of GCP is interested in doing so.--JimWae (talk) 20:46, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grand Central Parkway 

message: Per the article:
:  ... overpasses were purposely constructed with low clearances ... to ensure that commercial traffic would not be able to use the parkway system
Numerous sources state that Robert Moses called for the low clerances in order to discourage poor blacks and Puero Ricans, in buses, from using the parkway, thereby discouraging them from coming to Jones Beach.
The alternative interpretation is simply that commercial traffic would detract from the intended "park" experience, and while, with higher clearances, buses could have been allowed while general commercial traffic could  still have been prohibited by regulations, regulations could easily be modified, while low clearances could not.
This issue seems to have attracted a lot of attention, so I invite comments as to whether a discussion of this dispute is suitable for inclusion in this article. Fabrickator (talk) 04:06, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  disputed explanation for low clearances 

message: When I tried to fix the exit ramps to say it ends slighlty into Queens, I broke the thing…can someone help? 98.184.83.150 (talk) 01:30, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I restored the page to its state before your edits. If you perhaps explained here on the talk page what you wanted to achieve (and how to verify it), another editor will make the changes to the table without breaking the format. — jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 02:09, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  I checked google maps. It’s literally right on the border. Do we add queens to the SSP,Nassau to the belt, or neither? 166.198.21.128 (talk) 21:16, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:   Perhaps you should discuss this with  to see if the two of you can come to some consensus about what should be done. I don't believe two editors looking at Google Maps is quite the standard we want to use for Wikipedia content, but if the two of you agree, then it would be up to some other editor to contest your decision. — jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 22:53, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help