Talk:Creflo Dollar

message: It's practically lifted word-for-word from his ministry's Web site. I think that's unfair to the reader. There are general things that can be agreed upon from his page and others that can elaborated upon, but particularly the end of the first section was absolutely a shill for him and not very objective.
In the opening bio it reads "Dollar received a BS degree in education in 1984 from West Georgia College in Carrollton, GA. His website claims that he has a master’s degree in counseling and a doctorate in counseling, but there is information about when or where those degrees were earned.[1]"  This reads rather awkwardly.  Should it be "but there is no information..." or "but there is information at ..."  and then cite the reference?  Greenbomb101 16:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's Get Rid of Dollar's Official Bio 

message: The second sentence is not a sentence. What is it supposed to mean? It is only a noun phrase. It might as well read "Moon Pies and Coca-cola." Which we all known is a profound statement of causal complexity.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.50.114.125 (talk) 20:01, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The anonymous user immediately above at IP 155.232.250.51 also deleted a comment (from a different IP address) from May, 2005 from the talk page entitled "Fools." It can be viewed by looking at the May '05 date in the talk page history. -- Lisasmall 19:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

text: This isn't the place for this or for some of the comments below. If you want to rant, get a blog or find an appropriate newsgroup/forum or make your own website. I'm a Spirit-filled Christian as well and your feelings for the mentioned so-called ministries are at sharp contrast to mine, but Wikipedia is a place to convey knowledge, not to set up soapboxes. Wordbuilder 14:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I think this is the place for these types of comments.  This page is the "discussion" page.  And regardless, look at the other Wikipedia articles and you'll see there are thousands of pages filled up with these types of debates.  Creflo Dollar is a poor example of a minister if he drives around in a Rolls Royce.  The Bible clearly does not promise material prosperity.  What about all the starving Christians in Sudan?  Is Creflo Dollar somehow more in touch with God than they are?  He should sell one of his Rolls Royces and give the money to the poor. --208.22.45.148 14:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To help alleviate the confusion as to the purposed of an article's discussion page, I added the "talkheader" tag above. The purpose of this page is to discuss improving the article. It is not to express your opinions on the subject matter. --20:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misc. comments 

message: This article has been kept due to lack of consensus at this VFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 08:30, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless of whether Creflo Dollar is right or wrong, you have to be out of your mind to cite the size of his congregation as proof of God's favor.  Jim Jones convinced nearly 1000 people to commit suicide, and there are well over 20,000 Jehovah's Witness's out there.  Does the size of these groups also speak for itself in terms of being in the right?  --208.22.45.148 14:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  VfD debate link 

message: Since this discussion was supposed to be about whether or not to merge World Changers Church with Dr. Dollars history, I would add my own comment that that seems fine. It seems reasonable to me to include all related issues, history and accomplishments in his section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.59.244.182 (talk) 10 June 2006
: I agree. Wordbuilder 14:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree also. -- Lisasmall 18:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Now... Back On Topic... Merge? 

message: While he claims Creflo Dollar is his birth name there are numerous sources who claim otherwise.  Information about this that I previously added to the article has now been deleted.  The article needs accurate information about this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.212.64.234 (talk) 21:28, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Need research on birth name

message: I was kind of wondering about this also... AnonMoos (talk) 23:59, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: 2017

message: I see that Jmaster1 has removed the controversies section entirely.  This section seems important and relevant to the article, but included no citations at all.  I assume this is why Jmaster1 removed it.  In any case, it is a good reason to delete it.
Can someone verify some or all of these deleted claims?
::A Word of Faith teacher, Dollar is sometimes criticized for advocating a prosperity-oriented teaching held by most Christians to be a misreading of Christian theology . Many of Dollar's church members believe that his Rolls-Royce automobiles, which were given to him by the church, his private jet, and million-dollar Atlanta home and multimillion-dollar Manhattan apartment confirm the validity of his prosperity gospel teachings.   +   A Word of Faith teacher, Dollar is sometimes criticized for advocating a prosperity-oriented teaching held by most Christians to be a misreading of Christian theology . Many of Dollar's chur 
     
::  Critics, however, believe his lifestyle is proof of nothing more than the generosity of his parishoners. Dollar has explained that prosperity primarily involves improved relationships with God, family, friends.   
     
:: Dollar's church has amassed a fortune in real estate, mostly in College Park. Like other Word of Faith preachers, Dollar is often accompanied by bodyguards in public, and has stated, "I'm a part of the God class."    
     
:: Creflo has also appeared in front of the World Dome in the 2001 rap video Welcome to Atlanta with rappers Ludacris and Jermaine Dupri.   
     
::  On another occasion, Dollar donated money as a show of appreciation to law enforcement officers in Fulton County, Georgia.   
     
::  Many of his critics claim he was born with the name Michael Smith; however, his actual birth name is Creflo A. Dollar, Jr. after his father, Creflo A. Dollar Senior. A man by the name of Michael Smith held a few high-ranking titles during his 12 years of membership/service at World Changers Church, but they are, in fact, two separate people.   
Thanks much.  Phiwum 13:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of controversies section 

message: I don't like the word "swindler" in the first paragraph.  Personal feelings aside, the article should remain objective.
: No, of course "swindler" did not belong there.  You corrected a vandalism that other editors had missed.  Thanks much, but please remember to sign your talk page posts by appending four tildes. Phiwum 03:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Swindler" vandalism 

message: Oh, stop arguing and get to work.  This article is a mess.  I put some templates in and cleaned up the Controversy section a bit.  Can someone work on all those s in the first section?  Thank you! ComputerSherpa 22:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  *cracks the whip* 

message: Can someone post the video clip from one of the TBN broadcasts [a few years ago] where he said "Worship me! I mean worship God!"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.86.122 (talk) 05:06, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't really seem relevant to me.  A simple slip of the tongue that signifies nothing much at all. Phiwum 12:45, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video request 

message: Creflo Dollar owns a jet model "Gulfstream 3"...this could lead to a mis-understanding that he owns 3 jets.
He also has stated in interviews that he does not own 2 Rolls Royces, he own's 1 and that 1 was a gift from his congregation.
He states that he would never spend that much money on a Rolls Royce for several reasons.
It is said that the Atlanta church brings in about 70-80 million a year.
Every year they pay $57,000 to have the church audited by Grant Thorton (the largest firm around)
They give the members an opportunity to come into the accounting department to look at the books.
Thirty million goes into television, the church has a staff and sixty ministries.
There is something called "The Joseph Project" that is designed to help men that are in and out of jail, in and out of drugs, in and out of marriages, etc.
They have outreaches in Ukraine, Uganda, Cameroon and Brazil, providing shelter for the homeless and those in need.
There were about a dozen houses being built in Brazil at one time.
The church provides groceries for about 180 families per week.
It has been said that he does not use one penny of the churches money to pay for any of his lifestyle.
He stopped taking a salary from the church a number of years ago.
He owns businesses and invests in real estate, that's how he pays for himself and his family.
He has invested 28 million dollars of his own personal money into the church.
He flies to New York every Saturday to preach in Madison Square Garden.
It costs approximately $800,000 a year to rent it out and $85,000 to rent storage space nearby.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Royalgem21 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good News 

message: I decided to remove this section because it was biased and many threw out opinions rather than facts. For instance the user states that one of the reason whyh Creflo Dollar is controversal because he claims Jesus was God who came down as a man, which in fact is central to Christianity. Other negative things listed under the controversy section were simply made up and biased.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jfssoccer (talk • contribs) 23:07, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have restored the controversy section as it was. It contains two valid citations from reliable sources. It does not contain "made up material" as you falsely allege. Do not delete verified content on Wikipedia; you may be restricted from editing if you continue. Mike Doughney (talk) 23:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see WP:BITE.  The bulk of the text was unsourced and constituted an unsourced controversial claim about a living person, which should be removed on sight under our biographies of living persons policies.  Rather than blindly restoring libel, you should confirm that the text really is cited.  I have added sources about the lawsuit and changed the language to reflect what the Tulsa World says about the amended lawsuit.  I removed the Baptist criticism completely as it was unsourced. --B (talk) 23:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I take issue with your claim that "the bulk of the text was unsourced." Are you referring to this article or Hagin's? One middle paragraph of Baptist objections to Dollar was possibly verifiable (such objections are widely known and sometimes reported) but was unsourced and should have been removed; I certainly don't think it would have qualified as libelous. The rest was valid. I am fundamentally opposed to wholesale removal of criticism/controversy sections based on vague objections, thus the motivation for my restoration of these sections and warning the user about that and their disparagement aimed at me. Careful editing to remove unsourced material, with an explanation of each edit, should then follow. Mike Doughney (talk) 00:21, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything in a criticism section needs to be (1) reliably sourced both in terms of the thing being criticized actually having happened and in terms of the criticism being levied, (2) specifically about the subject of the biography in question and not just in general terms about something relating to him, (3) significant and not just some guy's rant, and (4) really a criticism and not merely a disagreement.  Every non-WOF Christian, myself included, disagrees with the "name it, claim it" theology of the WOFers.  It's a terrible heresy, but that doesn't mean that every WOFer's article should be turned into a criticism of WOF.  The statement "Dollar is known for his controversial teachings of Prosperity theology" is true, but it doesn't belong in the criticism section unless there is really an objective criticism to be levied there, not merely that we disagree with it. --B (talk) 04:41, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's unclear to me exactly what you're flogging here. The statement "Dollar is known for his controversial teachings of Prosperity theology" satisfies all of your criteria: it's sourced to a New York Times article about Dollar that spends at least three paragraphs explaining that there are individuals and organizations in the field who object to what he does ("an "F" grade for financial transparency"), i.e. there is in fact a controversy here. Are you suggesting that some further evidence of controversy is needed? I think the Times article is quite sufficient. If not, the whole sentence, perhaps dropping the word "controversial" should be appended to the lede paragraph to further explain who Dollar is. Mike Doughney (talk) 06:06, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Being on the board and named in a lawsuit is inherently controversial.  Being a WOFer/prosperity gospel/name it-claim it teacher is not and in order for that to belong in the controversy section, we would need a citation from a reliable source criticizing Dollar personally for something he did relative to his theology.  Simply the fact that the vast majority of Christians disagree with his theology is not a controversy.  As for driving a Rolls Royce, if he is taking heat in the media for his excesses, then yes, that's worth mentioning.  If nobody outside of Wikipedia cares, though, then we shouldn't care either.  As for the "pastor's offering", that's not entirely correct.  A visiting speaker is often given a "lover offering" by the congregation, but that is usually reserved for someone who does not have a regular salary.  In other words, if a visiting missionary came to speak at our church, we would almost certainly give him or her a love offering for his or her ministry, but if the pastor from the church down the street spoke, a love offering is not traditionally expected.  I suppose that different denominations or areas have different traditions, but if he is on salary from his church and collecting love offerings for himself personally beyond reasonable travel expenses, then that's outside what I believe to be the norm. --B (talk) 03:37, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

text: The content you removed was referenced.  Wikipedia is not censored.  Ndenison talk 05:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed Controversy Section 

message: It's listed on this page as January 28.  However, it is listed on his Who2 Biography page as January 15.  It is also listed under the Births section of our own January 15 page (it is a duplicate of the entry in the January 28 page).
Moobler (talk) 06:53, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we confirm his birthday? 

message: "External links" item "Video Stream of Creflo Dollar on November 30, 2007 with remarks to the Senate inquiry" now points to "http://www.wisdomministries.org/".
Has this been hijacked?
     Spydy (talk) 16:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Has External Link "Video Stream of Creflo Dollar on November 30, 2007" been hijacked? 

message: Considering all the previous Talk/Discussion Page topics, I think it is more than reasonable to add a tag expressing concerns about NPOV. At least that will clue readers in to the fact that virtually all the sources come from Dollar or his ministry's website and do more than point out a lack of good citations. Scrawlspacer (talk) 07:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV tag 

message: A YouTube video of Pastor Creflo Dollar defending his "brother in the Lord," Bishop Eddie Long, is making its way across the blogosphere. In the video, Dollar addresses church members for turning their back on their pastor, who recently settled four sexual-coercion lawsuits, when he is in trouble.
 
Dollar likens Long's "troubles" to a "wreck," applauding the fact that Long had "insurance" -- i.e., Jesus. Dollar admonishes Long's followers who are looking for a new church home in his ministry. Dollar preaches:
 
"That [Long] is my friend, that is my brother in the Lord. If you came from there, you get on back over there where you're supposed to be and do what you need to be doing because he got insurance and Jesus paid the premium."
 
Seriously? We won't throw baby Jesus out the window with the bathwater, but these pastors who fail to acknowledge the level of duplicity allegedly exercised by Long is immoral and unacceptable.
 
As reports surface that Long's church attendance is waning, Dollar defends his friend, telling folks to go back. Likening a man who allegedly preyed on young boys -- plying them with gifts and trips in the process -- to a "wreck" is disingenuous at best and foul at worst.
 
Dollar is right; everyone makes mistakes, but trivializing an alleged misdeed like Long's scandal and criticizing those who would walk away is foul. We're taking it back to '88 and giving Pastor Dollar the gas face.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lgathers630 (talk • contribs) 17:31, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Creflo Bishop Longs Comment 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Creflo Dollar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100612230414/https://creflodollarministries.org/About/Ministries.aspx to http://www.creflodollarministries.org/About/Ministries.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150122031323/http://creflodollarministries.org/About/CrefloDollar.aspx to http://www.creflodollarministries.org/About/CrefloDollar.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090930073114/http://www.ministrywatch.com/profile/creflo-dollar-ministries.aspx to http://www.ministrywatch.com/profile/creflo-dollar-ministries.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150923211054/http://www.creflodollarministries.org/About/documents/LegalResponse03032008.pdf to http://www.creflodollarministries.org/About/documents/LegalResponse03032008.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Creflo Dollar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090206052357/http://worldchangers.org/Contact-Us.aspx?p=1 to http://www.worldchangers.org/Contact-Us.aspx?p=1
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101204061941/http://worldchangerschurchnewyork.org/bio_t.aspx to http://www.worldchangerschurchnewyork.org/bio_t.aspx
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Adding a controversies section to this article seems appropriate. Does anyone object?
24.63.16.140 (talk) 06:30, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Try reading the existing article.  There is already quite a lot of well-sourced information about aspects that are 'controversies'.  Sales-driven newspapers and media like stoking "controversy".  Please also read WP:CSECTION which discourages "controversy" sections in Wikipedia articles.  So, bearing in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia rather than a sales-driven newspaper, what would you propose adding or changing, and why?  And what reliable sources would you use to present the various sides in the proposed items that you would classify as 'controversies'? And how would you support a case for making this an exception to that WP:CSECTION recommendation? Feline Hymnic (talk) 11:01, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversies section?