Talk:Final Crisis

message: I've noticed some back and forth on including a plot summary for this ongoing series. It's probably best to discuss it here and get a consnsus rather than continue to revert each other. I think the plot section is necessary despite the series not being finished. Plot sections are included in all ongoing works that i've seen, from tv series to comic series. Do we now need to go remove every character history from comic book characters as all of their stories are ongoing?--AniMate 01:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't it be better to request semi-protection on the article, rather than continue to revert countless edits?  Hazardous  Matt  19:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit warring is always bad, which is why I brought this here. I have to say that I strongly disagree with your statement Wesley. Just because you don't like the way the information is presented doesn't mean it has to be removed. Certain types of editors are always going to want to go overboard with the details, whether or not the series is completed or ongoing. Our job as editors isn't to obscure information for convenince's sake,. AniMate 06:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We're not obscuring information. We want to try and write about it in a clear, concise, and well-written manner. All we need to give is the set-up of the story for the general reader to graps everything else in the article, ie. the publishing background. We don't need to give in-depth detail about the storyline; in fact, that's strongly discouraged on Wikipedia. The series is not complete, and it's pointless to to try and structure a plot sumamry when we don't know how it'll sit as a whole. See the discussion here about it; I know there's more that went on, but I'm having trouble finding it.  Also, everyone should check out WP:PLOT and Wikipedia:NOT#PLOT for how to approach plot summaries in fictional articles. Basically: keep it short and simple. The longer and more detailed it is, the more likely you are to verge on a copyright violation. WesleyDodds (talk) 08:10, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm certainly not advocating a long detailed plot, but right now the "Premise" section is plain awful. You're assertion that the article isn't a substitute for reading the comic books is technically correct, but we should provide a clear synopsis for someone who hasn't or won't read the books. Saying that we should wait until the mini-series is concluded feels like a cheap way to ensure that consumers buy the books and that they aren't spoiled. That's not our responsibility. Frankly your decision that all plot must be reserved until the end of the mini-series seems arbitrary and out of sync with every other ongoing series that has been written about. As to your links to the issue by issue break down and WP:PLOT, I'm not advocating violating either of those. However, more detail is needed to help explain the impact this crisis is having in the larger DCU. Dan Turpin becoming Darkseid, Mary Marvel fully crossing over to evil, Wonder Woman as the new leader of the female furies are all major developments that should be discussed. I can't understand the logic behind waiting until the series has ended to include these or other plot details, bcause if they're releveant at the end of the series they're relevant now. Finally, to the IP above, Wesley is free to believe whatever he wants and to express it civilly, but you are not free to make personal attacks against him.  They do nothing to bolster any arguments, so do us all a favor and cut it out. AniMate 03:49, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, might I point out that all of the various comic books, ongoing miniseries or concluded, linked to from this article have plot summaries. Some could use massive trimming, but none appear to be violating copyright law in my amateur estimation. AniMate 03:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Actually that isn't the "director's commentary" link I was thinking of. They are here: FC #1, 2 and 3. (Emperor (talk) 23:01, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

text: What are you talking about? They might have cleaned up the talk page, but there's still no plot whatsoever. I would hardly call that reason for celebration. Kreachure (talk) 13:54, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

text: This article provides no useful information. Who cares who drew which comics? Most people want descriptions of the story. Admins are discouraging people from adding information, because they are removing information that people spent their time working on. There are plenty of articles on wikipedia that provide detailed descriptions of books, movies, tv shows, events, etc.  but there is a group of admins hovering around DC titles that want to remove any story related information, which in turn removes the desire for someone to want to look at these pages in the first place, and removes the desire for anyone to want to add information to this page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.107.3.20 (talk) 21:07, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Or write an overview of the story in an out-of-universe manner as I mention above. If done properly it'd be difficult for other users to justify its removal. (Emperor (talk) 02:18, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  re: "...but unfortunately for them I have a rotating IP address...." - Please go over to batman rip and rollback to the versions that had useful information. There is a person over there that refuses to let any useful information to exist on that page. Thanks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.107.3.20 (talk) 20:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

text: You guys do know that Wikipedia already automatically saves every version of the article since its creation?  Simply click on the history tab. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 16:11, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

text: I was the one who changed it back because I've watched it get changed more than once and was hoping my action would finally lead to some consensus.  I'm glad it did. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 23:07, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot 

message: Was this a decision made to avoid the flame wars that errupted all over the internet every time someone praised or derided the series?  Morrison is a fairly polarizing writer, with both this and Batman: RIP getting HEAVILY mixed reviews (not sure mixed is even the right term...  it was more "Love/Hate"), after All-Star Superman received universally positive reviews previous.  214.3.138.234 (talk) 13:03, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: No "reception" section?

message: Yah or naw to re-organising the article along the lines of Sinestro Corps War which is I think a format that we can all be happy on? (hopefully?) --Cameron Scott (talk) 20:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't see anyone having a problem with using a similar format. As long as the plot remains streamlined, there shouldn't be a problem. Before the predictable uproar, by streamlined I mean all of the major plot points are hit and that they are done so in an organized fashion. AniMatetalk 20:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Yeah that would be great.  Vince92079 (talk) 21:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Sinestro Crops War doesn't conform to WP:CMC/X. I suppose it might be that the article has unique needs (although it looks like it'd be easy enough to move things around there), but I don't see why we need to overcomplicate the structure. Having the PH first followed by the plot (as it is here) is pretty much standard and seems to work just fine here. (Emperor (talk) 21:10, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Straw poll 

message: I don't know if this is allowed, but I just pray this is the end of Darkseid, but god knows that some writer with no creativity will have to bring him back when they can't think of a plot haha.  I know that they are going to somehow undo most of what was established with this series, but it would be nice if they did something with the vacuum established in this series and fill it with new blood.  Just a comment.  This series was great. Timmyfitz161 (talk) 01:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prayer for the aftermath 

message: Is there any word on whether the various titles of "Final Crisis: Aftermath" being collected into a single volume? Or are they going to be singular issues to be collected separately? Just wanna know just in case, so there might me a heads up and edit the main page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.153.85.84 (talk) 06:07, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd assume that each limited series will be collected into a trade paperback. I'll be keeping an eye out and will update when I see anything, unless someone else beats me to it. (Emperor (talk) 16:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aftermath being collected? 

message: Schedule refers to when the comic was scheduled to come out, not when it did due to delays; therefore, I believe the tag in the infobox should be changed to Monthly.--Marcus Brute (talk) 02:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What about putting it like they did on All Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder, 'Monthly/Irregular'? I know it was supposed to be scheduled Monthly, but it did not come out on time. 72.237.4.150 (talk) 17:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schedule: Irregular 

message: The summary that's in the article right now covers some of basics, but it needs a lot of work. The miniseries had a lot more than that going on, so the summary that appears now doesn't accurately capture what happens. Summaries shouldn't generally be especially long, but there's a lot that happens in this series that isn't brought up or explained in the current version. Things are listed out of order, and rather than informing the reader, it only serves to confuse. I suggest redoing and lengthening the summary, covering all the key details. It would be much longer, but it needs to be if it's going to do an effective job of summarizing what happens. Improving the article should be more important than keeping the summary short. Friginator (talk) 22:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Overhaul of Plot Summary

message: What's the point of the "Sales" section if it only mentions issue 1 and is a sentence long?  It doesn't seem to add to the article.129.139.1.68 (talk) 19:20, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Sales

message: Can we have the reading order back? There's several other lists on the page, and it's one of the most useful. People reading this page are most likely to be reading the series or re-reading it, so it is a useful addition. Ziaix | (Talk) 00:16, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Reading Order

message: When I wrote into the article that the title "Final Crisis" is a metafictional reference to the final chapter of "Crisis on Infinite Earths" (Named "Final Crisis") it was removed. Was I wrong to assume this is a given?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.168.81.43 (talk) 13:05, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  No reference to "COIE"? 

message: There is nothing in the main Final Crisis miniseries to indicate that the US President seen as Superman in an alternate Earth is Obama. The mini-series was written before he was even officially nominated. If there is another storyline, official source, etc. identifying him as Obama, it should be cited; otherwise the reference should be removed as OR. Similarly, any suggestion that Nubia might be Michelle Obama. It is worth noting, however, that the 2010 Audio Drama adaptation of Greg Cox's Final Crisis novelization by Graphic Audio casts an actor who impersonates Obama when playing the character. 68.146.78.43 (talk) 18:21, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obama as Superman Original Research 

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