Talk:Frances Cress Welsing

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Isispapers.jpg

message: I added a See also section with links to Melanin theory, Psychiatry, Scientific racism and Pseudoscience since I felt that those articles are all related to her and her work. She is a psychiatrist by profession, who espouses Melanin theory, widely recognized pseudoscience, and Melanin theory is a form of scientific racism. Anyone who disagrees with the racist bit, just read the quote in the article. Pstanton 00:48, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Your feelings should not be relevant to linking her to subjects of pseudoscience. She unlike yourself was in fact a psychistraist, and 'widely recognized pseudoscience' only means that the white establishment was offended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.99.21.28 (talk • contribs) 06:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Pstanton put that badly, 12 years ago. Those artcles are related; feelings actually do not come into it. Melanin theory is pseudoscientific bullshit. --Hob Gadling (talk) 09:08, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  See Also 

message: I take the point that we need sources. So far the only source I can find in Google books is F7Te2ABNSIhQfagojnBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Frances%20Cress%20Welsing%20%22black%20supremacist%22&f=false  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller (talk • contribs) 12:09, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black supremacist 

message: Do any editors (aside from IP vandals) have a problem with the (entirely appropriate) term "anti-white racist" being used for this subject? If so, we may as well hash it out now. Quis separabit? 06:00, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's not bother. This is still a BLP as she died only recently and is controversial, and it's unsourced. Adding it is a violation of policy. Doug Weller talk 09:09, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Disagreement noted by Doug Weller here (and myself below). K.e.coffman (talk) 18:19, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Problem with description

message: I removed large chunks of WP:OR citing to Wesling. Please let me know if there are any concerns. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:31, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You removed rather large swathes of sourced statements and quotes, which I object to. Moreover, when I find terms like "the white man" and "the black man", I object even more. WP:OR and WP:COATRACK are very useful, but not applicable to the edits in this article. Kleuske (talk) 12:42, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

text: Lest I forget... "Melanin, afrocentricity, and pseudoscience" (American Journal of Physical Anthropology, Volume 36, Issue Supplement 17, pages 33–58, 1993) is worth reading. The work of Cress Welsing is discussed in great detail. Kleuske (talk) 13:03, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

text: "Forgotten Science: Strange Ideas from the Scrapheap of History", where Cress Welsings work is also discussed. Kleuske (talk) 13:34, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

text: "Magic Melanin: Spreading Scientific Illiteracy Among Minorities", describes the "melanin scholars" (and Cress Welsing is prominent amingst them) as racist. Kleuske (talk) 14:20, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

text: "Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, Author of the Isis Papers, Dead At 80", "Her research, while controversial, focused on White racism while offering the theory of Black superiority based on heightened levels of melanin." Kleuske (talk) 14:24, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: There really need to be a more critical analysis of this woman's work as most of it is theoretical nonsense.
64.150.207.42 (talk) 12:02, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means... Be bold! Kleuske (talk) 12:13, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: critical analysis

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Dear Wikipedists, 
I am contributing to the French version of the article on Welsing. As she is more or less unkown in Europe, so far there's been no edition war and there is a fair chance of achieving a good quality article. Yet to do that, we have to make sure we have access to all Frances Cress Welsing has written. I have read the articles you mentioned in your discussion, as well as a few more in french. So far, 2 writings have been mentioned : The Cress Theory of Color-Confrontation + The Isis paper. Is that it or has she written something else (article in newspaper, magazines, peer-reviewed journal ? ).
I'd really appreciate your help. I've done my homework and looked what I could find on the Swiss University libraries network (Switzerland is where I live) and I did come across (mostly American) articles about her , but none OF her, so I wonder if she only wrote these two texts I mentioned above. 
As I said, here in Europe she is not well-known at all, so if you could provide me with some sourced information about the kind of audience she has /had in North America, that too would be a most welcomed aid. --Braveheidi (talk) 12:13, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Most promenently, "The Isis Papers". Kleuske (talk) 13:15, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  What did Frances Cress Welsing write ? (details needed) 

message: One of our sources is "Melanin, Afrocentricity, and Pseudoscience" BERNARD R. ORTIZ DE MONTELLANO Anthropology Department and its publishers have put the paper at . Doug Weller talk 19:33, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welsing had some strange ideas not mentioned in the article 

message: Dr. Francess Cress Welsing was not an Afrocentrist scholar. She was not trained under the paradigm of Afrocentricity and neither did she help to formulate the theory. People often confuse Afrocentricity with Afrocentrism. Asante, the person who coined Afrocentricity, has made this clear. He addressed Clarence Walker's (and other's) claims as unfounded, and largely because of Walker's confusion of the two terms in order to make straw-man arguments (See Molefi K. Asante's "The Afrocentric Manifesto"). Scholars who have not studied the paradigm will confuse the terms for various reasons. Anne Pollock is not familiar with Afrocentric theory, she is simply using the term that others have confusingly used to describe anyone with Black cultural politics, lumping it as "Afrocentrism". But Afrocentrism is simply an unacademic social movement with no real body of theories or direction. It has simply been lazily used to apply to those of certain aesthetics and ideology. Afrocentricity, however, is a theoretical paradigm that sees Afrocentrists approach African phenomena from the standpoint of African agency.  Afrocentrists are not adherents of Afrocentrism. Further, Welsing has never used the terms Afrocentrist, Afrocentricity, or Afrocentrism in any of her writings. She has never claimed any of these terms. It is a cultural bias and a type of cultural superiority complex that has allowed these terms to be misapplied without caring to fully understand the intricacies of the theories developed by the people who created and use these terms. Also, instead of using a term that is being lazily applied to her, it is best to simply call her what she called herself: "one who studies and writes on racism/white supremacy". 
Read "The Afrocentric Manifesto" as well as "The Afrocentric Idea" by Molefi K. Asante. Also read "The Afrocentric Paradigm" by Ama Mazama as well as "The Demise of the Inhuman: Afrocentricity, Modernism, and Postmodernism" by Ana Monteiro-Ferreira (along with the critiques by Stephen Howe, Walker, Tunde Adeleke, and Paul Gilroy) to get a rounded understanding of the differences between the terms Afrocentricity, Afrocentrist, Afrocentrism, and Africanity, as well as the various theories and arguments for/against. I thank you in advance for being rational, and editors committed to limiting cultural bias. Africologist (talk) 15:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. Has there been criticism of this for example in light of the points made here? jps (talk) 19:17, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for your question jps. There has been criticisms of the idea that Afrocentrists, or those who use Afrocentricity as a theoretical paradigm, think they are genetically superior to other people (they do not) but not sure about this article in particular. This was written back in 1993 but has not been mentioned in any of the major texts on Afrocentricity I have listed above. All of which have been written since that time. Africologist (talk) 19:59, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: So maybe this is a disambiguation issue? jps (talk) 21:03, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. You would be right to say that. Africologist (talk) 21:09, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

text: I note that an article on afrocentricity was deleted 15 years ago as a neologism: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Afrocentricity. That may have been the correct WP:TOOSOON argument at the time, but the sources you are showing me seem to indicate that it may be time to create the article. Should we start a draft? jps (talk) 11:31, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Let's do it. Africologist (talk) 15:40, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussion of this possibility has moved to Talk:Afrocentrism for the time being. jps (talk) 12:44, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not an Afrocentrist