Talk:ArtScroll

message: In the item criticizing literalism in Artscroll's translations, I deleted the line: "This is especially in the Songs of Songs where literalism is claimed to reduce the meaning and purpose of the text." This has it backward! Artscroll refuses to provide a literal translation of Shir ha-Shirim, asserting that any such would be unfaithful to the text. Artscroll provides only an allegorical rendering. I'm sure this is controversial, but for the opposite reason. WBcoleman 03:37, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is both a great exaggeration and common misconception to say that "Artscroll refuses to provide a literal translation of Shir ha-Shirim." It is indeed true of the version which appears in the ArtScroll Siddur as the prelude to the Friday evening service, and in my opinion this is perhaps appropriate for that situation, where the intention is recital as liturgy. But a person who is intent on studying the text for its meaning is more likely to be reading either the ArtScroll Tanach or the standalone ArtScroll Shir HaShirim, and in both of those cases, a full and complete literal translation DOES appear in the commentary at the bottom of the page. If you want, quibble over their decision to include it in the commentary at the bottom rather than in the translation above, but it is NOT omitted as many claim. --Keeves 13:42, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

text: The translators give reasons. The obvious reason is that apart from Rabbi Akiva all sages wanted it hidden because the erotic metaphors are easily misunderstood. This is editorial policy, and in line with what ArtScroll's readership would want. I will not elaborate on the incident of Rav Raphael Breuer. JFW | T@lk 21:53, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Song of Songs

message: Under prevalence, I've added some notes on the recent completition of Artscroll's Schottenstein Talmud. I would appreciate it if this can somehow be expanded into a full fledged section (as it has been noted as a major event in most Jewish Newspapers) or if at the least it could be clarified with additional facts. Hopefully, what I've added is just a start. SF2K1
:I agree that information about Schottenstein Talmud should be expanded.  It may even warrant its own article.  I am new to Wikipedia, so here is what I propose for the time being.  I would rather not add the section to the article right now as I have never edited an article, and would like some feedback before I add anything.  Much of the information comes from the introductions to the Schottenstein Talmud Bavli folios, from The Creation of the Schottenstein Edition Talmud Bavli, and from my own experiences with the Schottenstein Family, studying Gemara, and at the Siyum dinner.  It is a little technical, so please let me know of anything that is irrelevant or needs further explanation.  I also state below that the upcoming Schottenstein Jerusalem Talmud will be the first English translation of this work.  (I am not sure if that is totally true.)  Please let me know what you think:
::===Schottenstein Edition Talmud===
::Mesorah has a line of Mishnah translations and commentaries, and followed up with a line of Babylonian Talmud translations and commentaries, The Schottenstein Edition of The Talmud Bavli (Babylonian Talmud). These have received widespread acclaim throughout the Orthodox community, and are also used by many non-Orthodox Jews. In late 2004, the final volume was published, giving a 73 volume English edition of the entire Talmud, only the second complete translation of the Talmud into English. The total cost of the project was $21 million, most of which was contributed by private donors and foundations.  Some volumes have up to 2 million copies in distribution, while more recent volumes have only 90,000 copies currently printed. A completed set was dedicated on February 9, 2005, to the Library of Congress, and the siyum (completion dinner) was held on March 15, 2005, the 13th yahrzeit of Jerome Schottenstein, at the New York Hilton.  
::The first volume, Tractate Makkos, was published in 1990, and dedicated by Mr. and Mrs. Marcos Katz.  Jerome Schottenstein was introduced to the publication committee shortly thereafter.  He began by donating funds for the project in memory of his parents Ephraim and Anna Schottenstein one volume at a time, and later decided to back the entire project.  When Jerome passed away, his children and widow, Geraldine, rededicated the project to his memory in addition to those of his parents.  The goal of the project was to, "open the doors of the Talmud and welcome its people inside."  
::The text generally consists of two side-by-side pages: one of the Aramaic/Hebrew Vilna Edition text, and the corresponding page consists of an English translation.  The English translation has a bolded literal translation of the Talmud's text, but also includes un-bolded text clarifying the literal translation.  (The Talmud's text is often very unclear, referring to places, times, people, and laws that it does not explain.  The un-bolded text explains these situations to name a few.  The text of the Talmud also contains few prepositions, articles, etc.  The un-bolded text also takes the liberty of inserting these parts of speech.)  The result is an English text that reads in full sentences with full explanations, while allowing the reader to distinguish between direct translation and a more liberal approach to the translation.  (This also results in one page of the Vilna Talmud requiring several pages of English translation.)  Below the English translation appear extensive notes including diagrams from sources ancient to modern.
::Mesorah and the Schottenstein family recently began a Hebrew version of the Babylonian Talmud, and an unprecedented first English translation of the Talmud Yerushalmi (Jerusalem Talmud).
::--Spem 22:33, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Artscroll's Talmud

message: Unless the ArtScroll/Slifkin incident is properly referenced, I am tempted to regard this as dirty laundry and remove it. Who organised the "public pressure"? What this grassroots, or was it astroturfing by excited bloggers? JFW | T@lk 18:43, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slifkin 

message: As far as I can tell, the "S" is always upper-case in every single ArtScroll publication.
I'll admit that most people -- myself included -- have a tendency to spell it with the lower-case "s", but I think this is mere laziness or ignorance, and is incorrect in either case.
Therefore, I propose changing the title of this page from "Artscroll" to "ArtScroll". Any objections? --Keeves 20:33, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I think the ArtScroll website itself is reasonable support for this assertion. I've moved it. JFW | T@lk 20:40, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Artscroll or ArtScroll? 

message: Re: this thing here:
:"Some biographies of important Jewish figures include photos that have been modified to conform to stereotypical images of Haredi Jews."
I removed it earlier, anon put it back in. This is a pretty serious allegation! Admittedly, as a Chareidi Jew, I am not neutral here. BUT: if you're going to throw around serious allegations such as this one, they have to be supported by examples and sources for obvious reasons. Until and unless they are, they cannot be in this article. If anon, or anyone else wishes to talk this over further, feel free to write to me on my talk page (if anon, let me know where to respond). An attempt to put it back in w/o explanation or support will be met with resistance. - the.crazy.russian (T) (C) (E) 23:32, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doctored Pics 

message: Citing those who disagree with ArtScroll's approach because it is Haredi is innapropriate in the article. Such citations do not constitute criticism but rather general disagreements with Haredi Hashkafah. I will attempt to edit the section. Shykee 14:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Criticism" section should be criticisms, not general disagreements with Haredim

message: Content and translation issues aside, I don't think that the article emphasizes what a key role in the success of the ArtScroll siddur was played its beauty and usability, especially in contrast to it's competitors in the '80s.  This article is incomplete until the words "layout" and "order" are included, which were such great contributors to the success of the Siddur.  References on this subject would be welcome.   Say what you like about the translation; as a tool for helping people say the "right" thing at the right time, it remains a landmark creation. -Vonfraginoff 14:43, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  content aside... 

message: I do not feel that Artscroll transliteration merits its own page; at best it seems like a subsection under "editorial policy" or something like that. I have added the merge tags to each page. Comments? --Makaristos 20:05, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Artsroll transliteration should be a part of Artscroll Manassehkatz 22:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have time to do it, and prolly won't until hmmmm... a month from today, but the section needs some serious work, beginning with the systemic bias in it...namely, a confusion between the meaning of "Sephardic", which here is obviously interpreted as "what Ashkenazi Israelis call Sephardic" coupled with "what Ashkenazim hear when Sephardim talk".  What's there is a good start, but it's so wrong in so many ways that it should probably be removed altogether until it's fixed.  71.87.23.22 16:18, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from [[Artscroll transliteration]] 

message: Was this renumbered at some stage. I just checked my set and some volumes don't match the numbers on the Artscroll site--Shattered Wikiglass (talk) 02:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schottenstein Edition Talmud 

message: There are a bunch of phrases "the best-selling prayerbook"  "The best-selling chumash"  "the most popular...".  Most are tagged with  and if they are not cited in a few weeks I'd like to remove them as POV.  Joe407 (talk) 05:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it. --Makaristos (talk) 05:24, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

text: --RoyBoy 01:59, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV style 

message: in yeshivos the use of Artscroll Talmud by students is frowned upon. It is felt that students shold be able to "learn up" gemarah without the help of the elucidation
does anyone have a source for this? (perhaps you could be medayik in the haskamos)
Naytz (talk) 21:39, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: That's going to be tough to find a source for.  Also, you'll need to specify in what yeshivos. Overall, it sounds like a point better made in an article about style of study in different yeshivos.Joe407 (talk) 07:12, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

text: People claim all sorts of nonsense. Doesn't make it true, let alone verified. (And it's not as if rabbonim weren't aware that yeshiva students were using the Soncino translation at that point.) — Shmuel (talk) 19:54, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  within yeshivos 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified