Talk:Mindless Self Indulgence

message: The current image on the information panel does not function  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.19.47 (talk) 14:29, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Fail 

message: I've been told by Both Kitty, and Steve, Right? that their new album is out early next year, and will feature several different covers  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.121.194 (talk) 21:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Album 

message: so there's that neat little box down there with all of msi's major albums and eps and pics of the covers, only i noticed that DLN isn't in there, then i noticed that the info on there goes "1.ms-i 2.tight 3.FGWSSS 4.AoA *** 6.YRTA 7.amro"  where's 5(DLN)? looks as if someone deleted it. so i just added it back where it belongs, but it's not shwoing up. if you try to edit that section you'll see that it's there and has all the right formatting or whatever just like the other releases, but it isn't showing up on the page. what up with that? somebody needs to fix this.68.252.94.153 16:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  discography section 

message: Is there any particular reason that all the edit buttons from "history" onwards have been redirected so as to refer to the section after the one it should, thus rendering the "history" section uneditable? (i.e., the edit button besides "history" redirects to editting "future", "future" goes to "members", etc.) 
If not, could this be fixed? 76.10.151.209 21:16, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing and the history section 

message: Removed "The Download Festival in 2005" I was there and they never played, double checked the website just to be sure.
Vendemmian 19:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Download Festival in 2005 

message: I am TRYING to upload a more recent pic of the band but somebody keeps changing it...
That is nowhere NEAR current, taken even before YRTA was released.
I am nearly 100% sure that the purpose is to have current information.
So STOP changing it...
:As I said in the edit, more recent pictures do not mean a better one. The older one shows all memebers clearly. The article is about the entire group not just Jimmy and a couple of "fuzzy" bandmates. Since their have been absolutely no changes in the line-up, nor any significant appearence changes since the two photos. Basically, the older one is the better one to use becuase it showcases the entire band. Smoltz 10:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: okay so why is [image.jpg] not appropriate? clearly shows ALL members and it is a current picture. Msipiggy 11:36, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Had that been the picture in question, when I editted it, I would have been in favor it it. The picture I removed was one of Jimmy w/ Chauncey and the bandmates in the background. Smoltz 22:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The image used right now does not have a reliable tag on it, and is about to be deleted. --Liface 22:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WHAT...THE...FUCK... 

message: I think we need to clean up the discography section. For albums that do not have their own stub article, they need one.
Since the track lists are listed in the album stub articles, it seems redundant and messy to re-list them on the MSI main page. We should probably just list the albums with links to their stub articles as well as the year in which they were produced and any other major details that can fit on one line such as the year of release.
Thoughts on this?
Grandeandy 03:09, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discography section cleanup 

message: Should this not be on the page for the album itself instead of the bands page?
Devilmaycare 17:15, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FGWSSS Warning 

message: to be quite honest the gay community on average probably has no clue who mindless self indulgence is.
i really do not understand why that is mentioned here.
:Where is "gay community" mentioned in the article? If you're referring to the mention of gay lyrics, then it makes sense that it's mentioned, as you find very little punk rock bands that sing about such a topic. It's one of the traits that makes MSI unique. Saaga July 4, 2005 17:22 (UTC)
- "However, their sound is far from being stereotypically gay, and their appeal is not limited to the gay community."
UH WRONG LOL GAYEST FUCKING MUSIC EVER
- This doesn't make much sense considering that they never appealed to only the gay community or anyone in general. This is what the original page said about half a year ago. The thing is though is that placing the band as gay community icons as this quip paints them isn't really the truth. they took that whole kind of girly gimic from the new york dolls, not the gay community. -bozu
::Is he really gay or not?  A lot of what he does is usually to shock or anger the audience, I wonder if he is gay, bi or straight. In North America it easily makes many people uncomfortable.  Well, whatever sexuality he really is he has no shame at all...  Which is great
He may or may not be gay but the lyrics openly say gay and bisexual things.  I think the consenses amoung the fan base is that James Euringer is bisexual, commonly kissing fans of both sexes.  Beeing a huge fan myself am not sure.  I would not be shocked either way.  As for appealing to the gay bisexual audience, the lyrics are funny to an open minded audience, although most fans are probably ignorant of everything.  The music will be more likely to appeal to someone who finds nothing wrong with homosexuality.
::Why do you care? Are you considering hitting on him?
:What the hell is a steriotypically gay sound?
------this right above, was exactly my thought. wtf does that mean? and if james urine heard it what the fuck would he think? he'd probably say "that is just silly." - bozu
---
 I'm gay and I find the lyrics hilarious.
 -Anonymous :P
His name is JIMMY urine (For short), so, to go by my theory, don't post about a band if you don't even know their names!!!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.76.114.89 (talk) 00:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  gay community 

message: My understanding of the Left-Rights is that it is a band consisting of the two male members of MSI, Little Jimmy Urine and Steve, Righ?.
My understanding about the Left Rights is that, although they are the same people as MSI, they are a different band, so I will add appropriate disclaimers — Xoder|✆ 23:14, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)
       
      the left rights is technically an album
Maybe something should be added about how the lead singer recognizes that his music is a somewhat of a joke (See lyrics to joke and many other songs) and its his non serious approach to music that makes him notable.
Specifically the song "2 Hookers and 8-ball" which goes '2 hookers and an 8-ball, can you believe that I write this shit? 2 hookers and an 8-ball, stupid people thinking I am cool.
The Left Rights is a band by Jimmy Urine and Steve Righ? www.myspace.com/theleftrights, its also Mindless Self Indulgence's Debut Album81.76.114.89 12:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: um.. what? left rights is MSI's debut album? lol put down the crack pipe dude.68.252.94.153 16:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left-Rights 

message: why are we bleeping fucked up? we say nigger and faggot in the article and bleep fucked up? Theres an entire article on fuck. When did wikipedia become squeamish? This is selective censorship, and only more proof why censorship on the whole is a self-defeating philosophy. 
Lockeownzj00 01:56, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  f--ed up 

message: Alright im a huge MSI fan and this is the first i have heard of this
Can someone give me proof that there is a Shut Me Up remix album ?
` Hit up their myspace page. their latest blog states this will be released this fall.  Graveenib 23:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shut Me Up : The Remixes 

message: I guess this bands notability is primarily based on who they opened for. That's fine, but someone please cite it.  Thanks.  House of Scandal 04:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is ridiculous. Did the person who added the speedy deletion tag even try googling their name? --Liface 08:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagged 

message: The footnotes are improperly formatted as simply URLs, rather than giving the name of the periodical being cited, and the title, date, and author of the article. This is needed to illustrate whether the sources are authoritative, credible and disinterested.--Tenebrae 12:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnotes 

message: "Another significant influence to the band is early 1980s satanic culture"
lol gg wikipedia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.1.30.233 (talk) 17:42, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  this article is seriously vandalized 

message: I think many people here are seriously biased. I, myself, am a fan of MSI and similar artists having seen them in concert with Kill Hannah. But I swear, you people are messed up. Why not just respect MSI for the shit they put right in front of you. At least they're point fucking blank and in your face.
Msi saved me 16:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hmm.. 

message: I added them to this category, because of their obvious homosexual lyrical content of some songs, aaand..being gay myself, it's kind of cool to have a kick ass band such as MSI in that category.  Also, I think everyone knows that Urine is bi..so..yeah.  Felt it was appropriate to add them to that category, mostly due to their lyrics. Here's the website that some people use for his bisexuality, http://suicidegirls.com/interviews/Mindless+Self+Indulgence/ where they ask what type of girls he likes, he talks about being attracted to basically everyone. Oreo  25 March 2007
:I read the interview and couldn't find anything to support Euringer's bisexuality. Could you please point out where exactly in the article he makes his sexuality known, so it can be added to the page's citations? From what I understand, his sexuality has been an issue both on the band's article and his own, and appropriate referencing outside of lyrics, which don't necessarily reflect the artist or composer's actual views, and the one-dollar makeout stunt at shows hasn't been provided. ZachPG 16:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is better than nothing, but IMHO, any mention of his sexual orientation in either the band's article or his own should be carefully worded to express basically what you said above, that statements were made and the evidence is there, but it's not express, it's implied. Unfortunately, I'm a newb and have no clue how to properly word something like that. Ideas? ZachPG 15:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a combination of pansexuality (being potentially attracted to everyone - not just male and female but tran, hermaphrodite, XXY-male, XYY-male, XXX-female, etc) and omniparaphilia (being turned on by... everything). It would definitely be a good idea to drop the pansexuality link in there in my opinion. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 16:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  LGBT Musical Group 

message: There's been a lot of vandalism of late and i wondered about requesting semi-protection for the article? Also there appear to be a number of (i think) spam links in the external links section, e.g. ones to various fansites. Are these spam and should they be removed? Jamamala 22:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism and spam links 

message: MSI are NOT hip-hop in any way, shape or form. Jimmy might do quick vocals sometimes, but that doesn't mean they're hip-hop. Proposal to remove the word hip-hop from the description of their music. BlackSlivers 01:50, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we should review what it says now, because, what the hell is "heavy punk" supposed to be? :And even if there is such a thing, is Mindless Self Indulgence really part of that genre? Proposal to review what it says... again. Psycho Panda 14:06, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure if this was your point behind the above post, but it's not saying the band is influenced by "Heavy Punk" and "Hip-Hop",  it's saying that the influence from Punk and Hip-Hop is a heavy one. I propose a change reading: "Their music is a blend of rock and electronica, also pulling heavy influences from punk and hip-hop music. This is often referred to as acid punk." Kurayami Eternal 17:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  They are categorized as hip hop on allmusicguide. --Neon white 23:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not hip-hop. 

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thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:MSI-TIGHT.jpg 

message: :Image:MindlessSelfIndulgenceAlienatingOurAudience.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:MindlessSelfIndulgenceAlienatingOurAudience.jpg 

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thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:MindlessSelfIndulgence(Album).jpg 

message: Both sections contain a lot redundant information. Could someone clean it up? I will do it myself when I have some free time at my hands. --Autoplombe 22:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History/Biography  

message: could we please, please PLEASE revert back to this revision? the article has really gone to shit since then. fjak 09:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  reversion to past article 

message: this article is clearly biased. example: "They also use clever lyrics and stance to give meaning to songs, such as "You'll rebel to anything," which is a song that talks about how punk culture is being exploited by misdirected youths as a way to be unique or get noticed."
Someone needs to change this.
:Do you mean the arictle is POV? If you think so, feel free to make what changes you feel are necessary. ZachPG 20:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  biased 

message: I reverted to this version on 4 July as old vandalism was not repaired properly (the bottom of the article got cut off). Can the regular editors restore any useful edits made in the interim period? Thanks. Carcharoth 12:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism not fixed 

message: The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. — Moe ε 05:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use criteria 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Tight.JPG

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thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Msi.jpg 

message: I think the genres in the infobox are a little excessive. --Neon white 02:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The genre of late[] of late were listed: "Industrial Jungle Pussy [Punk]]", I don't believe this is even a genre.  Doktor  Wilhelm  20:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  It was claimed that this was a something they had described there music as, it isn't genre so was rightfully removed, i also removed the claim from the lead as the citation is dead and the source wasnt a particularly verifiable site anyway, plus a self-attributed quote in the lead is not great. --neonwhite  user page talk 20:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

text:  Made up genres by bands dont go in the infobox. VHS is a type of video cassette and the rolling stones are a band. However VH1 is a major music tv channel and rolling stone is probably the most prominent and reputable music magazine ever produced. Do not remove cited genres or otherwise vandalise this article further. --neonwhite  user page talk 16:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

text: That isn't a genre, it's a mixture of random genres!   Doktor  Wilhelm  16:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Industrial is already cited. They haven't the slighest thing in common with jungle music. Shock rock is also cited. They have been described as hip hop. Remember wikipedia represents verifiable sources not personal opinions. --neonwhite  user page talk 22:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The mix of genres, are not a genre in it's self! The genres shown fit the actual style of the band: Industrial fits the sound, Hip-hop fits the vocal style, and Shock Rock fits their image, as well as stage show (both musically and visually).   Doktor  Wilhelm  22:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

text:  They are cited as both. Do not remove them again. --neonwhite  user page talk 02:23, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

text:  MSI does not play industrial--as in Throbbing Gristle, Einstürzende Neubauten, SPK, etc. They do play stuff that is closer to industrial rock, like Foetus, Chrome, etc. Industrial is NOT rhythmic music, it is experimental, ambient, and at times closer to post-punk/ punk rock than new wave or EBM. Electro-industrial is the more rhythmic, danceable industrial music being talked about on this page--Tactical Sekt, Wumpscut, VAC.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.221.31 (talk) 23:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genres 

message: I can;t find any reason my Little Jimmy Urine is notable enough to warrent a seperate article. --Neon white 02:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The info is largely trivia and most is unsourced OR. Regardless of whether it is correct or not, the article doesnt meet criteria on notability.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neon white (talk • contribs) 18:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree a redirect would probably be better as most of that page is unsourced trivia. --Neon white (talk) 03:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Neon White, it seems that you've already decided to do all this, with out any real discussion about the band members who's articles you have deleted! I believe they are notable, as do others, I will bring the articles back until it can be proven that they aren't notable, and it's not just your POV. Sorry for any trouble caused! Instead of deleting things, why not help find citation?  Doktor  Wilhelm  12:56, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

text:  The proposal has been made for 10 days, that's long enough for discussion and objections. They are not notable according to the guidelines, whether you think they are is not a criteria for notability. We do not attempt to prove negatives, on wikipedia you need to prove notability (not disprove it) according to WP:MUSIC guideline, in particular the fact that a member has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable. I have looked and cannot find any such articles if you believe there are some that i have not been able to find then please present them otherwise there is no reason to keep the article as most of it as it stands could be removed as unsourced trivia. --Neon white (talk) 20:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, it's 2 against 1 for keeping the articles, and not merging at the moment. Just because You believe they aren't notable, really doesn't mean the articles need deleting (without any attempt to merge them into the bands article)! I'll see if I can work on finding some souces and such, as time allows! (I'm actually in favour of the merger of bands if the members are of the same level of notability as the band it's self, such as you couldn't imagine one without the other, but I guess that could lead to problems)  Doktor  Wilhelm  22:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  wikipedia is not a democracy. My POV has nothing to do with it, he simply doesnt fit the guidelines on notability unless substantial sources can be found. There simply is no point in having a stub article. No-one has proposed the article for deletion. Though most of it could be delete on the grounds of unsourced controversial material about a living person. --Neon white (talk) 01:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

text:  Again wikipedia is not a democracy. That won't be mentioned again. If it does not pass Notability guidelines it needs to be either deleted or removed and as of yet, there has been no independent articles about the subject provided. --Neon white (talk) 22:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So it's okay for you to do as you please? This is a discussion for the merger, as such the discussion had shown that it shouldn't be merged!  Doktor  Wilhelm  14:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

text:  verifiability and reliable sources are a fundamental policy of wikipedia. see WP:RS and WP:V. It stops it from becoming a collection of personal opinions. Depriving readers of badly sourced, unsourced or just false material is exactly a policy of wikipedia. The article in question contains no info that couldn't be included here after all the OR and trivia is removed. --Neon white 16:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

text:  The marriage would be ok as long as we can find a reliable source for it, it's not uncommon to have small sections about members on band pages. The other stuff is largely OR so wouldn't be necessarily merged anyway. Nevertheless i'm still prepared to wait to see if any articles of note are found. --Neon white 15:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have changed my mind to MERGE them all, the articles as they are now are a waste, but all the references and such need to be put into the Mindless Self Indulgence article, as it is missing many (well both) of them... I've tried to merge all relevent crap into the main article, now all is needed is for some kind soul to sort out the redirecion of every thing, if that is what is needed! Sorry to anyone how think the articles should be kept as is, I just think it'll be less trouble this way!  Doktor  Wilhelm  22:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

text: You forgot the references though! (so I copied them)  Doktor  Wilhelm  16:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  A few issues snetences like He is known for many of his stage antics. and He usually wears jackets with catch phrases on the back like "As Seen on TV", "Kick Me", "Rock My Hole", "We Are Gods", "Cute Lead Singer", "Crap", "Kiss Me $1", and various other catch phrases are unsourced and are original reserch. Do we have sources for these? Is the page now to be redirected? --Neon white 18:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Neon, I believe it was you who said "Wikipedia is not a Democracy" no?  I assume that you must be an admin based on the time you spend here and your profound interest in doing away with the page but I am new to the site and am not sure if you mean that the admins decided by "consensus" or that you and a few users made the call?  Please excuse me if this isn't the place for the convo, just getting my feet on the site, I'll catch on in no time.  I can source the catchphrases on the jackets if need be but not sure how relevant that part of the bio is.  I've sourced the talk of his outfits and the trademark style he has which is emulated by others. I'm going to look around to see if any of the remixes he has done are online and link one or two to source that. --BillH  1:59, December 12, 2007  —Preceding comment was added at 07:02, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The consensus is above. It was decided that the person in question could not be verified as notabile according to the guidelines at WP:MUSIC which is a guideline for editors so we can decide who is worth of a seperate article. Generally subjects that don't have much notablity have their pages merged into the article that they are associated with in this case the band. All info that is sourced has been included into this article. If there are only a few users involved in the debate, then they make the call, admins only really decide speedy deletes, everything else is decided by wikipedia editors and any editor can have a say. If you can source things then they are best put in the relevant place in this article. But most of those alone arent really enough to prove notability outside of the band. --Neon white (talk) 00:56, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

text:  Every editor has a user page, i'm not sure what your point is. Liking the subject of an article makes you no better an editor than anyone else it fact quite the opposite in some cases. --Neon white (talk) 19:51, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

text:  No i didn't, a consensus was formed by the editors involved and no-one objected. Decisions are not made by voting they are made based on the guidelines and policies. I have never proclaimed any more importance than any other editor. If you want to make a claim that this subject is notable enough to have a seperate article then present enough info and reliable sources and which point on [WP:MUSIC] he qualifies under at the current i don't believe the info we have needs a seperate article. --Neon white (talk) 20:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

text:  Please read WP:N, WP:MUSIC and WP:BIO and also a good read on how to edit in a civil manner would help you here. Your argument is not based on anything more than a personal POV. Wikipedia doesn't base it's content on your personal opinion of who you think should have an article. He needs to meet criteria on notability and so far over a month after the proposal was first made, the criteria is not met, if you can provide second party reliable sources than prove notability then do so, if you cannot then there is no real reason to recreate the article. As is stated on WP:BIO The person must have been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject As i said before the sourced portions is now here the rest was unsourced OR and was correctly removed according to wikipedia policy on unsourced info in articles about a living person. --Neon white (talk) 20:45, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Neon White, i know that every user has a wikipedia page. My point was that BillH could make the wikipedia page notable because he knows MSI.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.166.36 (talk) 17:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That really has no baring at all. Anything added must be sourced by a verifiable source. Other than that he would have a conflict of interest and therefore his edits would have to be thoroughly checked by other editors. If he feels he can improve the article to the point where it can stand by it's own then he is welcome to do so but to simply revert it to the poor state that lead to the merge in the first place is not contsructive at all. --Neon white (talk) 01:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Are the band member articles going to be merged/redirected into this one? They seem rather small and Lyn-Z seems to be prone to a lot of vandalism (namely to info about her marrage and age), it'd be easier to keep evrything inline if there was only one page with the biography details of the individual members on.  Doktor  Wilhelm  05:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think it was left a while to see if any more reliable sources could be found, but it's been a while and nothing significant seems to have arrived so feel free to merge them if you think that will improve things. --neonwhite  user page talk 15:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would have a go merging them myself, but I'm rubbish at working out what needs to kept from one article or the other, and what doesn't.  Doktor  Wilhelm  23:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nothing needed merging really, everything on that page was what was already in the main article which justifies the merge as the article was redundant. --neonwhite  user page talk 20:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

text: There had been tags, that's how I found out about all this merger stuff (though they keep being removed) and all mergr discussion was directer here, I believe? everything of notability and with refrence is present in the Mindless Self Indulgence page, and hopfully the sections on band members will grow too big with notability and refrences, that they will again get their own articles.  Doktor  Wilhelm  20:53, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The afd was nearly three months ago and only one person contributed to the afd claiming that she was notable because she was a  permanent member of a notable band, which is contrary to guidelines at WP:MUSIC, it should not really have been closed at that stage. The only reason the result was keep was because there was no consensus to delete. There is, however, a consensus to merge, if you read the points above. --neonwhite  user page talk 17:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: My point is that this discussion was not properly advertised. If myself and a couple of other editors all agree on something on a message board somewhere, we can't claim we have consensus. This was not even a mention of this on Talk:Lyn Z, which means that consesnsus was decided by those who discuss the matter here, not all those who may have interest in any of the affected articles. Look at it this way- I create an article called List of bands with the word mindless in the name, and a couple of other editors help me write it. We mention Mindless Self Indulgence and a few garage bands, then the three of us decide to merge Mindless Self Indulgence there. Is that consensus? Erm, no. I admit, the AfD was a little poor, but if you have issue with the closure, you should raise the matter with Seraphim Whipp, the closing admin, or perhaps start a deletion review, not just ignore it and do as you please. I repeat my original comments- this merge was out of process, and you are dangerously close to acting as if you own these articles. J Milburn (talk) 18:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Merges are not required to be adverised or discussed in any way, if an editor feels it would improve the encyclopedia they can perform the merge without discussion as long as it's done properly and not likely to be controversial, see Wikipedia:Merge#How_to_merge_pages seen as the info is already in this article and laregy related to this band there is little point in keeping a redundant article and therefore the merge was incredibly unlikely to be controversial and was part of the normal editing process. Nobody owns articles. Please remember to discuss matters in a civil manner. --neonwhite  user page talk 22:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please don't challenge my civility, I am being perfectly civil. I know that merges need not be discussed, only citing consensus when the relevent instances have not been informed is rather bad practice. J Milburn (talk) 22:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  You have failed to assume good faith and made baseless accusation against aditors, this is not being civil. --neonwhite  user page talk 18:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ironically, that is a baseless statement. Where have I not assumed good faith? Where have I made baseless accusations? I stand by what I have said. J Milburn (talk) 19:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: As someone who watches Lyn Z (which I originally edited because a friend contacted me about the article being a complete mess) but not Mindless Self Indulgence, I resent this merge. Lyn Z came out of an AfD with consensus to keep, suggesting that just casually removing the content because you would rather it was somewhere else is bad without real discussion. And no, I do not count this as real discussion- there were no tags, and there wasn't even a mention on the talk pages of the pages which you have just as good as deleted. I am not going to revert your changes, I am just explaining that the process followed here was, at best, abysmal. J Milburn (talk) 20:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There had been tags, that's how I found out about all this merger stuff (though they keep being removed) and all mergr discussion was directer here, I believe? everything of notability and with refrence is present in the Mindless Self Indulgence page, and hopfully the sections on band members will grow too big with notability and refrences, that they will again get their own articles.  Doktor  Wilhelm  20:53, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The afd was nearly three months ago and only one person contributed to the afd claiming that she was notable because she was a  permanent member of a notable band, which is contrary to guidelines at WP:MUSIC, it should not really have been closed at that stage. The only reason the result was keep was because there was no consensus to delete. There is, however, a consensus to merge, if you read the points above. --neonwhite  user page talk 17:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: My point is that this discussion was not properly advertised. If myself and a couple of other editors all agree on something on a message board somewhere, we can't claim we have consensus. This was not even a mention of this on Talk:Lyn Z, which means that consesnsus was decided by those who discuss the matter here, not all those who may have interest in any of the affected articles. Look at it this way- I create an article called List of bands with the word mindless in the name, and a couple of other editors help me write it. We mention Mindless Self Indulgence and a few garage bands, then the three of us decide to merge Mindless Self Indulgence there. Is that consensus? Erm, no. I admit, the AfD was a little poor, but if you have issue with the closure, you should raise the matter with Seraphim Whipp, the closing admin, or perhaps start a deletion review, not just ignore it and do as you please. I repeat my original comments- this merge was out of process, and you are dangerously close to acting as if you own these articles. J Milburn (talk) 18:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Merges are not required to be adverised or discussed in any way, if an editor feels it would improve the encyclopedia they can perform the merge without discussion as long as it's done properly and not likely to be controversial, see Wikipedia:Merge#How_to_merge_pages seen as the info is already in this article and laregy related to this band there is little point in keeping a redundant article and therefore the merge was incredibly unlikely to be controversial and was part of the normal editing process. Nobody owns articles. Please remember to discuss matters in a civil manner. --neonwhite  user page talk 22:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please don't challenge my civility, I am being perfectly civil. I know that merges need not be discussed, only citing consensus when the relevent instances have not been informed is rather bad practice. J Milburn (talk) 22:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  You have failed to assume good faith and made baseless accusation against aditors, this is not being civil. --neonwhite  user page talk 18:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ironically, that is a baseless statement. Where have I not assumed good faith? Where have I made baseless accusations? I stand by what I have said. J Milburn (talk) 19:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: I resent this merge

message: :Image:Jimmy Urine.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:42, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Jimmy Urine.jpg 

message: The Mindless Self Indulgence page seems to be in dire need of re-writing, specifically in the Band Members section. There are numerous grammatical errors that should be corrected immediately. Maxwell's Daemon (talk) 22:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editting Needed 

message: I'm not really familiar with editing Wikipedia, but I noticed that the opening paragraph said Lyn-Z was among the founding members of the band, when she was not. I corrected it by replacing her name with Vanessa YT, who is, in fact, the original bassist.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.129.153.250 (talk) 22:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction to opening paragraph 

message: Should we consider Mindless Self-Indulgence a solo album by Jimmy Urine, as opposed to an album by the band? I mean Steve, played guitar on "Bed Of Roses", but he wasn't a member of the band at the time, and Kitty and Vanessa had yet to be even heard of. Lord Weasel (talk) 03:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: Each band member doesn't need their own photo, especially since we have a full band photo that accurately depicts each member. Chouonsoku (talk) 23:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed Band Member Photos 

message: I was just wondering why it mentions the list of bands they've opened for, twice; once in the intro and once in the actual bio?? Grungedude22 (talk) 18:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening For Bands 

message: okay, why does it say this band was formed in 1997 if the first album was made in 1995? One of those years is wrong, if not then someone inform me on this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.119.197.242 (talk) 23:25, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's correct. The band WAS formed in 1997, the record called Mindless Self-Indulgence is just a solo album by Jimmy Urine.
It was just a project and it's technically not their first record.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.150.66.95 (talk) 19:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that the years active should be 1997 - Present rather than what it is currently being set to, yes that was solo album of the same name and not a contribution from the group. 82.7.41.213 (talk) 20:18, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  this page is screwed up =( 

message: Please, limit yourselves to adding only relevant information to the page and not just whatever you think will look cool.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.174.207.67 (talk) 01:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "I just want a hug" 

message: Info box says she is a past member, prose never mentions her leaving, half way down it has the member list and she isnt in either part, and the template has her as current. WTF? PXK  T /C 22:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I really care, but I've been to 4 of their live shows, and she DEFINATLY plays acoustic drums over the albums drum tracks. Its clear as day. I'll be a first hand source and tell you, I've heard it live. Aspensti (talk) 17:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lyn Z 

message: Why? Like, did he grow or something?
*Umm... yeah, probably. Either that or he thought having "Little" before his (nick)name is not cool. Whatever. 194.213.41.2 (talk) 14:26, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Jimmy Urine formerly Little Jimmy Urine" 

message: At the end of the 'Steve, Righ?' section, it repeats itself, but saying the same thing in a different way.
81.110.187.3 (talk) 17:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing 

message: Shouldn't there be a section on the band's history? Titan50 (talk) 17:41, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  History? 

message: Are they not relevant to MSI? --24.170.255.73 (talk) 21:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Because Mindless Self Indulgence discography exists and listing everything in both places is redundant. If the artist has a discography article as well, usually only the studio albums are listed in the band's article. TheJazzDalek (talk) 21:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The discography page doesn't give any information about the CDs other than its release date, and their lable. I'm sure people would want to know more then that the CDs just simply exist. --24.170.255.73 (talk) 12:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The band's notable releases all have their own articles. Wikipedia isn't meant to a repository for every bit of information about everything that's ever existed. (See WP:IINFO for more on that subject.) An in-depth discography with complete info for every release belongs on a fansite, or perhaps a wiki about the band (if one doesn't exist, check out wikia.com as one place you could start one). TheJazzDalek (talk) 13:51, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

text: I don't see how their EPs aren't notable, also the already existing wikia, and fansites that I saw were lacking in information. --24.170.255.73 (talk) 18:02, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Check the EPs against the notability criteria at WP:NALBUMS and you will find they all come up short. If the band has a wiki on wikia and you find it lacking, then you might want to consider helping to improve it. TheJazzDalek (talk) 22:03, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

text: AMRO Meets the needed criteria, as it isn't a promo-only, demo, bootleg, mix, or an unreleased album, and from my knowledge had sufficient article-length, and enough cites. With the fan-made wikia "lacking" is an understatment in this case, and I wouldn't feel like making 200+ pages all by my lonesome. --24.170.255.73 (talk) 02:23, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  What part of the criteria does it meet though? Just being a commercial release by a notable band is not enough. It needs to have charted or received media attention, to give two examples. TheJazzDalek (talk) 12:22, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

text:  I think you're looking at the criteria for "Musicians and Ensembles." If the same guidelines follow for their albums as well, I could name some albums, singles, etc. that have neither recieved media attention, or have been charted, but still have a page. Someone also deleted the Left Rights page, and merged it with MSI. That was a full album, and is not listed in the bands discography page as the Left Rights are another band. What excuse did this one have to be deleted? --24.170.255.73 (talk) 18:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Another Mindless Rip Off and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The Left Rights were a side-project of the band that did a one-off "joke" album. It's fine to mention them within the context of MSI but their sole release is not notable on its own and doesn't deserve a separate article. TheJazzDalek (talk) 18:37, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Instead of giving me wiki links could you maybe answer it in your own words? --24.170.255.73 (talk) 04:56, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who removed all the singles, and EPs? 

message: This article seems to be missing a lot of information about the band prior to their 'break'. There's no mention of their many collaborations with similar acts, for instance - repeated shows and recordings with bands like PT Grimm, Bettys Trash, or The O, for instance. I don't believe any of the other acts satisfy notability but certainly warrent a mention in this article for things like Urine appearing on King James' Chokehold Radio, PT Grimm releasing their remix of 'Faggot' or MSI's sponsorship and support for The O. There were several bands coexisting and exchanging fanbases in a mostly-unnamed scene around the late nineties, of which MSI was the only to really break it big. I'll try to dig up some reliable sources, but are there any opposed to such an addition?
: If reliable sources can be found and the collaborations can be shown to be notable* incidents in MSI's career, then yeah, go for it. But if it just ends up as a list of non-notable bands who used to hang out/play together with MSI, that won't add anything of value to the article and should be discouraged.
:* - By "notable" I don't mean it has to be of major importance, but it should be a little more than "someone did a remix" or "this one time someone played a song onstage with this other band". TheJazzDalek (talk) 12:35, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds reasonable. I'll try to dig up some sources in the next day or two (it's a bit tough, since I'm in Afghanistan with crappy internet). I'm reasonably certain I can dig up reliable sources for The O since they were actually signed to/promoted by Uppity Cracker, I'll try to find some solid refs for PT Grimm and Bettys Trash as well.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.82.22 (talk) 07:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early Years 

message: I thought it was 1995?--68.92.238.206 (talk) 02:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Year they were formed... 

message: MSI's whole wiki page is a shining cornucopia of wikipedia's assorted failures. The most important being when everybody edits something the point is lost.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.130.149 (talk) 17:38, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Now they're Synthpunk??? 

message: Am I the only one that finds suggesting some of their most well known songs like Straight to Video, Issues, Pay for It and Mastermind are not notable enough to have their own aricles while more obscure songs like Evening Wear/Mark David Chapman are as a bit nonsenseical? Plus Mindless Self Indulgence is the only band I know, excluding exstremelt obscure bands that are only known to a very small group of people, so not have an article on everyone one of their singles. What makes them less notable? Robo37 (talk) 09:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the notability of thier singles. 

message: The information regarding the members make up a great portion of the content in the article. I think these information (which are mostly unsourced) should be merged with the individual articles of the band members as their inclusion here is against the formatting. Myxomatosis75 (talk) 16:59, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the members 

message: Obvious vandalism first: under band members: "Ryan Ross - Flute (1997-present)"
Active years state "1995–2016 (hiatus)" which is incorrect, firstly they are not in a full-on hiatus which can easily be verified by the fact that PINK was released after said hiatus started, and this hiatus started in 2015, not 2016, and is only a break from touring, nothing more, and thus "1995-present" would be more accurate, citation for the hiatus is this article: http://www.kerrang.com/16974/gerard-way-speaks-mindless-self-indulgence-hiatus/ and here is MSI's official statement:
http://mindlessselfindulgence.com/news/jimmy-urine-gonna-break-unless-somebody-dies/
94.215.48.236 (talk) 07:57, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect Info and Obvious Vandalism 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Some Twitter kids think they are being REALLY cute and keep trying to vandalize this page with the 'racism' edits. Could we get some better protection? Thanks. 172.58.102.221 (talk) 19:18, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Hi, I thought we should have a section for discussion of this contentious issue, especially how it relates to autism spectrum disorder. I hope we can all agree this case has nothing to do with autism and can avoid conflating the two in any edits. Or at least offer sourced counterarguments in the event any sources emerging trying to link Euringer's autism to so-called "infantilism" that can result in predatory behavior of this ilk. I want to make it clear there is ABSOLUTELY NO grounding for linking these two things in a person. People will any neurotype can commit any crime, you are not more likely to do so simply by being autistic, so let's remember that when editing the article. Lynchenberg (talk) 17:16, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it necessary to have this section in this page? The same section verbatim is in the Jimmy Urine article. DTB (talk) 00:52, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no reason information that affects two different, albeit connected, subjects cannot be represented in articles for both. A similar example would be the sexual offense charges against Ian Watkins (Lostprophets singer) being noted in section of his article as well as the Lostprophets article. Information is not required to remain exclusive to one article. As far as it being verbatim, that's why the attribution rule exists when copying and pasting from one article to another in the first place. As far as the information itself, many of the events described in the charges revolved around live performances and recording sessions of Mindless Self Indulgence. It also has a direct effect on the band's future, if there is one. NJZombie (talk) 01:25, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexual assault allegations against Jimmy Urine