Talk:Master of Arts (Oxford, Cambridge, and Dublin)

message: A C Benson, in his introduction to William Johnson Cory's Ionica, states that "in those days Kingsmen did not enter for the Tripos, but received a degree without examination, by ancient privilege." This refers to a B.A. gained at King's College, Cambridge, in 1845, which was 20 years before they began to allow non-Etonians to enroll. I presume such a privilege would have extended to eligibility for award of an MA a few years after the BA given for residing in college for the prescribed number of terms. Does anyone know when examinations began to be taken by King's College undergraduates? Was this privilege extended to other categories of students or to other colleges? 
I believe examinations came to be regarded as old fashioned, and were abandoned by other English institutions, such as the Inns of Court, after the middle ages and were not reinstated until late in the nineteenth century. I also have the impression (which may be mistaken) that doctorates (such as LLD, DD, LittD, etc) were normally awarded without thesis or examination (i.e. as honorary degrees) until recent times. Does anyone know when examinations became the norm before the award of Cambridge degrees? NRPanikker 22:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In 18th and early 19th century Cambridge, most students did not take an honours degree (in the sole Tripos of Mathematics), but instead took the ordinary degree.  These "poll men" (from "hoi poloi") did not have an examination at the end of their degree (though there might a been a cursory "disputation" - a relic of when logical disputations formed the basis of education).  There was, however, an examination of their knowledge of Greek and Latin in their 2nd year (known as the "Previous Examination").  The Mathematical Tripos, taken by the keener students, was originally examined by all of the students writing down answers to dictated questions.  Lasting all day for several days, the weaker students were gradually eliminated.  The strongest students were eventually whittled down, to form a list of all students in rank order, the top student being known as the Senior Wrangler.  Over time, the dictated questions were replaced by written examinations.  Even later Triposes were formed in other subjects and, by the start of the 20th century, the examination process was more-or-less familiar.  Rouse Ball wrote a History of Mathematics at Cambridge University.  The book is available via Google Books, if you want more details about how the mathematical tripos started. Bluap 02:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other degrees without examination 

message: According to the Dean of Degrees of my college a BA or BFA who held senior status during his or her period as an undergraduate may incept as an MA during or after the eighteenth term from matriculation. I haven't yet found the authoritative text for this but it is clearly out there to be found. This should be added to the article.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 16:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Senior Status

message: Someone has made the point that holders don't put "MA (Oxon)" (etc) after their names to emphasise that "It's not a real MA." I wonder where in the world it could be a disadvantage to say you went to Oxford, even if your colleagues do have real higher degrees? NRPanikker (talk) 16:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: To most of the public in the UK "MA (Oxon)" after one's name says "I took my degree at Oxford", in the same manner that "MA (Lond)" says "I took my degree at London", not "I don't have a 'real MA' and want to make that clear". There's a lot of reverse snobbery in the UK - "public school, Oxbridge educated" is the shorthand term for "member of the traditional elite group in society". Whatever the realities of Oxford there are many graduates who prefer not to shout about it in some circumstances where being seen as "ordinary" is more advantageous. Timrollpickering (talk) 17:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How strange! I love to shout out that I have a degree from Oxford! Hurrah for The Establishment! I'm part of it and proud! Ooh, are those Oxford cufflinks?!--194.80.206.93 (talk) 16:07, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

text: This is almost completely incorrect. Read the History and rationale section for a full account of the actual historical origin of this degree. -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 14:31, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

text: *Indeed. it is not a separate degree but a conversion of the BA into an MA. At the end of the day you still have one degree, not two as some people think. If it is not 'real' then does that mean the person didn't spend 3 years reading for a degree then? Does incepting as MA automatically cancel out his degree into nothingness? Surely the proof is in the transcripts and whether they read their degree and not on the relative nature of degree titles. Even in other places in the world there is inconsistency in degree titles and what they stand for. E.g. medical doctors in the Commonwealth countries hold the MB BCh which isn't a doctorate so technically they shouldn't be using the title Dr anyway but use it because it is a courtesy title. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 00:11, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

text: There seems to be a complete failure throughout the article, and the comments on this page, to understand that because the conversion from BA to MA takes place 4 years after graduating (not immediately) it recognises that the former Oxbridge BA graduate now has 4 years of worldly experience on top of their academic qualification. For most Oxbridge graduates, and for many employers, the combination of an Oxbridge BA plus 4 years experience is just as valuable, or more so, than another university's BA/BSc plus MA/MSc, so the conversion to MA is perfectly justifiable and calling the tradition fraudulent is nonsense.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.14.167 (talk) 15:28, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Nah. It is fraud.  173.62.3.22 (talk) 17:23, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: "Not a real MA"

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The article states that "the Master of Arts degree is not awarded separately". This is unclear. An Oxford graduate goes to a degree ceremony to be awarded the BA and then some years later goes to another degree ceremony to be awarded the MA degree. However, apart from that, one does not have to anything else to move from BA to MA.--Bduke (talk) 10:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Awarded separately