Talk:Norm (philosophy)

message: It looks like this page hasn't been touched in a while, so when I came across several sections that seemed to be comprised entirely of speculative Original Research and unsourced information, I figured I'd just be bold and delete it. Fiat! Jtmorgan (talk) 00:50, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted "Do Norms Exist?" and "Norms without Expression"

message: Seth: Norms neither purport nor create.
:Velho: I accept your criticism here, but I can't find a better word. And it is common language that "laws" (norms) "create" duties and permissions.
::Seth: Then perhaps just "These norms create obligations..."
::: Velho: I am using the «semantical concept» of norm, which states that there is a norm as long as a sentence "means a norm", even if that norm is invalid and therefore does not actually "create" any duty or obligation. That is why I used the "purport". I guess this is the most neutral way to put it, since other concepts of norm also accept the metaphor of "purporting to create", but not the other way around.
Seth: I dunno, it could be argued that linguistic conventions could not exist without social norms, which could not exist without certain other, more general behavioral norms, and so on.  I tend to sympathize with language being given primary importance, but there are definately people who don't.
:Velho: I surely agree with that. But it does not question that those conventions are norms and that those norms are important.
Seth: Nope, definately not a lawyer - I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it does seem ridiculous to make a judgment with no appropriate law to back it up.  I wonder if there's an appropriate Wikipedia article that could be linked here.
:Velho: Fortunately or unfortunately, judges are always doing it. Actually, that is half of their job. There are thousands of books and articles on the subject. As far as I can recall, nobody seriously argues against it after 1900. I guess you will get some information on it if you follow the links about law.
Seth: Okay.  One more thing, many of your references use the term 'normative' or 'normativity' rather than 'norm', at least in the titles - based on what I've read in this article, I'm still not sure there's a difference between the two, and if not, the contents here should probably be merged with normative (which, as an article, is fairly lacking) and then this article should become a redirect.
:Velho: The "normative" article is made with a more sociological perspective. On the other hand, it focuses on normative discourse. I guess it is better that the two articles co-exist. If they are to be merged, I think it would be reasonable to keep the noun (norm) and delete the adjective (normative). That's common practice in encyclopedias. I think we should wait until other opinions come up.
--Velho 16:27, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your corrections. I really do not agree with two of your changes. We'll talk about it later. But not today, I'm not in the mood. See you!--Velho 03:46, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Purporting to create

message: I don't know if I've put this in the right place, but I don't see a button for starting a new comment.  
Norm, Normal, Normalcy and some related words should include a couple of concepts.  One is the statistical definition of normal, meaning "typical" or "modal," or in the greatest number (a plurality or majority.)
It should also include a sociological concept relating to the most common practices or beliefs.  Thus, heterosexuality is often called "normal" because it is the condition or practice or belief of the greatest number.  Once a majority believe that homosexuality is not deviant or evil, then it would become "normal" in that sense. It is also normal that people should die or age, because those are universal conditions.
Normal can also refer to perfection, as in a "normal kidney," meaning a kidney without defect. 
Common speech may refer to norms as socially agreed standards, such that it is the norm to accept a certain practice.  There is a command element involved, but a greater suggestion of agreement by the greatest number.
:You have to check norm (disambiguation), normative, norm (sociology), norm (mathematics), normal, etc. Velho 16:07, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Norm, Normal, Normalcy

message: Revisions April 27 and April 28 are a mess. Smokeypanda (talk) 03:57, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last 2 edits