Talk:Jacobite Syrian Christian Church

message: There is now a new proposed project at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Oriental Orthodoxy for a group which would focus on articles relating to the Oriental Orthodox Church. Any individuals interested in working with such a group should indicate as much there, to allow us to know if there is enough support to actually begin such a project. Thank you. Badbilltucker 14:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Oriental Orthodoxy project 

message: In case anyone here wants to weigh in, Eastern Rite Catholic Churches → Eastern Catholic Churches:  See Talk:Eastern Rite Catholic Churches. Fishhead64 07:23, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move of interest

message: The article doesn't seem to spell out why this religious groups are called Jacobites. A brief history would be usefull. Cheers Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:22, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Why are they called Jacobites?

message: This article says that the Jacobite Syrian Christian Church is also known as "Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church".  There is also an article called Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church, which is also in Kerala.  This is very confusing, and there should be something in the article that explains that they are different (if they are different — otherwise the articles would be merged).  ... discospinster talk 00:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion... 

message: They are two different churches in Kerala, both being part of Oriental Orthodoxy but this one being autonomous and the other being autocephalous.
ܠܝܛܘ  Liju  ലിജു לג"ו (talk) 04:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Different Churches 

message: I was trying to do some copyedits to the above article and found this odd sentence The Church has dioceses and churches in most parts of India as well as in the USA, Canada, United Kingdom, Western Europe, and the Persian Gulf nations. A Church can't have churches!
Of course a Church can have churches !  The Roman Catholic Church has churches all over the world. The Church of England has churches all over England. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and the Seventh Day Adventist Church, both have churches in many countries.
The paradox arises because "church" has two different meanings --- a Christian organisation, OR a building used for Christian services. See foe example the Concise Oxford Dictionary :
church 1. a building used for public Christian worship. 2. a particular Christian orgaisation with its own distinctive doctrines.
(Also 3, which means basically the whole Christian religion taken together) 
 I think the editor means parishes. Do Jacobites call them parish? I have inserted hidden text with that question there and if it is fixed can the editor please remove the inserted text. Cheers Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 09:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. Removed.Student7 (talk) 11:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Church or Parish?

message: I think dioceses and bishops should be associated together in some less demonstrative way. Supposed to be about church, not people, so list diocese first with their associated bishop(s). Student7 (talk) 11:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dioceses and bishops

message: The Patriarch fraction is known as Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, and the Catholicos fraction as Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church. An Independent Orthodox Church body also exists since 1772 AD by name, Malabar Independent Syrian Church, which is not in communion either with the Patriarch or Catholicos.
Majority of the Orthodox christians in India,including me, accept the Patriarch of Antioch as the Spiritual leader, and Catholicos of East as the autocephelous head. Similar to the situation in Georgia, where Georgians accept the Catholicos of Georgia as their autocephelous head and Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople as the Spiritual head. 
:How does the above affect this article? We need WP:RELY references to document all statements, particularly controversial ones. "Fighting in the streets" appears to be documentable. Does either side support violence? Again, need references. The split in loyalty I think is already documented. But if it isn't, it should be. Student7 (talk) 13:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Present situation of the Church 

message: :There are Six articles which claim common history of Saint Thomas Christians out of this 4 have almost similar contents about the same period. To avoid repetitive articles and to improve the quality of the article, share about WP:RELY sources and re organization of these articles.
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indian Christianity#About the articles on Saint Thomas Christians common history Pamparam (talk) 03:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles on Common History 

message: This section is horribly mismanaged, with all caps, misspellings and errors. 122.166.154.248 (talk) 09:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Mis-edited originally. Suggestion: try to correct one or two when you are looking at the article. With a couple of us doing this, it won't take too long. Of course, no one wants to read such a list now. All sorts of editors in the world!   :)  Student7 (talk) 19:12, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bishops of the Church 

message: This should be the name, not Jacobite Syrian.... Credit Risk (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 11:05, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: note that his sermon at mass was in English.  Not clear on whether the chantings were Aramaic.  67.161.249.235 (talk) 07:14, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malankara Jacobite Syrian Christian Church  

message: It is common understanding that desposition was not the crux of the issue... The issues started from the late 19th century itself. Concluding that a consecration of a bishop led to all trouble is nothing but terrible wrong history. Whoever has done so, is creating blocks for unity. Credit Risk (talk) 03:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deposed Patriarch?? 

message: The Jacobite Syrian Christian Church website gives the following information.
 THE FOUNDING OF CHURCH
 
Who established the church in India? People belonging to every Christian denomination of Kerala, in one voice would answer St. Thomas. Syrian Orthodox Church also believes so, St.Thomas reached Kodungallur by ship in AD 52. The widely accepted tradition is that St. Thomas visited various places and baptized many Jews and Hindus and thus began the process of establishing the Church. Middle east countries and Kerala had trade relations during the early centuries. So it may not have been difficult for St. Thomas to reach the coasts of Kerala. 
 CHURCH IN INDIA
 
St. Thomas, one of the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ, is the founder of the ancient Church in India. Christian writers and historians from the 4th century refer to the evangelistic work of Apostle Thomas in India, and the Indian Christians ascribe the origin of their Church to the labors of the apostle in the 1st century.117.202.114.86 (talk) 19:36, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who founded the Church? 

message: What are the two languages which are seen in the emblem? The one on the right can be confused between Urdu, Arabic and Persian.
On reading the article one may guess it to be Persian, but could someone please confirm it, and explain why these two languages were specifically chosen?
Yetanotherwriter (talk) 07:28, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language in coat of arms? 

message: First line of current version of this article is that The Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church aka Malankara Syriac Orthodox Church commonly and erroneously referred to as Jacobites. This is a contradictory statement as the official name of this church is "Jacobite Syrian Christian Church" - --45.125.147.173 (talk) 12:10, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, very "special" common sense needed to understand this !! -> Church preferred to use the derogatory erroneous name Jacobite as it's official name because it is popular and easily recognizable. Let it be like that. I just pointed out here in talk page. I don't want to comment further on this. ---45.126.206.243 (talk) 06:07, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

text: Dear Kokkarani, Please patiently read my comments above. I never said, that was your edit. I "said" the first line of current version is like 'this' and it looks a contradictory statement. But you were advising me to use my common sense to interpret that !! But the administrator understood what I am saying and  he took off that statement from preface. Thanks all - 59.95.67.190 (talk) 03:16, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: erroneously referred to as Jacobites?

message: Need a reference for this church also known as Malankara Syriac Orthodox Church . Any churches in Kerala, known by this name? ---45.125.147.173 (talk) 12:18, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Need Reference for "also known as Malankara Syriac Orthodox Church"

message: Lot of POV edits happening with the name of this church and title of this article as well.
Actual name of this Church is Jacobite Syrian Christian Church - legally,officially and by all means.Please verify references provided below:
*Official Website of Jacobite Syrian Christian Church
*Pastoral message of H.B Thomas I,Catholicos of India, Jacobite Church Head in India - Please see the church name in the Letter Head, clearly written "Jacobite Syrian Christian Church"
*Pastoral Message of Patriarch of Antioch, Supreme Head of Church - Please see how the Supreme head of the Church addressing his church in India -"All the faithful of Jacobite Syrian Christian Church in India"
*Jacobite Syrian Christian Church Constitution 2002 (in Malayalam) - "Yakkobaya Suriyani Kristhyani Sabha" that means "Jacobite Syrian Christian Church".
I am keeping the official name of the church in preface in first place.
@User:Kokkarani aka Phantom, Please do not push this name to 20 lines below in the article as you did yesterday. Actual name of the church should come first and clearly appear in the article.
@Wiki Admins, Please do not  allow any editors to take out this name from this place. Also please revert back the title of the article to Jacobite Syrian Christian Church. In my opinion, Wiki Editors or Wiki Admins are not supposed change the name of a church, an institution or an organization. This will take out the credibility of Wikipedia. Thanks -45.126.206.4 (talk) 13:37, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reverted. Generally the first sentence needs to match the article title. Other variants can come after.--Cúchullain t/c 14:11, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed, We will discuss this in Title move discussion (above section)- 45.125.146.72 (talk) 14:29, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: POV edits with Name of the Church

message: The remark " Historically, the Saint Thomas Christians were united in leadership and liturgy, and were part of the Syriac Orthodox Church" is NOT correct. They were in communion withChurch of the East from 496 to 1599 and not part of any foreign churches till the Portuguese arriving in Malabar. - 122.179.55.191 (talk) 12:37, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Early History of Saint Thomas Christians

message: Jacobite Syrian church is a integral branch of Syriac orthodox church also known as Syriac orthodox church of India. Malankara orthodox church is a independent church when they accept saint Thomas apostle is founder of church but Jacobite Syrian church believe as per tradition of Syriac orthodox church. Now, The Malankara orthodox church doesn't accept the lineage of Patriach of Syrian orthodox because As per constitution of Malankara orthodox church "The Malankara orthodox church shall not recognize the Patriach, canonically consecrated with the co-operation of catholicos"(Constitution of Malankara orthodox). The Jacobite Syrian Christian follow continue as under the Patriach of Antioch, They are called Malankara Syrian Church(Jacobite Syrian Church). Robyrajan916 (talk) 12:38, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of [[Malankara Church]] in [[Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church]] 

message: After the Coonan cross oath the church divided into two, one is under Catholic Church other is under Syriac orthodox church. The first Bishop of Malankara syrian church is Mar Thoma I by Gregorios Abdal Jaleel and to be last Malankara Bishop consecrated by Syriac orthodox Church. Some of Bishops seperated from Syrian orthodox church in India, establish two different churches is also known as Marthoma Syrian Church and Malankara Orthodox Church. After the establish of Catholicos of the East by Ex-Patriach Ignatius Abded Mshiho II, The Malankara Orthodox Church accept the new throne of thomas apostle and disagreed Shalmusahttp://sor.cua.edu/Personage/MGregoriusGChathuruthil/18761216shalmootho.html of Syriac orthodox church and to be independent, The one and only church that is Jacobite syrian church under the throne of Syriac orthodox church and follow old tradition. Robyrajan916 (talk) 03:09, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jacobite Syrian Church is Malankara Syrian Church 

message: Jacob Baradaeus ordained patriarch for Coptic Orthodox church also,why don't call as jacobite whenever how malankara orthodox church became Jacobite? traditionally after catholicate by deposed patriarch, the malankara orthodox church under throne of saint thomas apostle not Antioch. The Jacobite Syrian Church continue the throne of Antioch.The Jacob Baradaeus strengthened various parts of Antioch Church, who believe Miaphysitism. The other churches like Coptic Church known as their thrones so Malankara orthodox not jacobite.Robyrajan916 (talk) 12:09, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Coptic church is not Jacobite? 

message: The catholicate of Malankara orthodox church established by deposed patriarch of Ignatius Abded Mshiho IIhttp://www.morgabriel.org/dictionary_patriarch.html. Now, Syriac orthodox church or malankara orthodox church does not have any other contact with together as well as constitution aricle says "The Malankara orthodox church shall not recognize the Patriach, canonically consecrated with the co-operation of catholicos"(Constitution of Malankara orthodox).http://mosc.in/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/MOSC-Constitution.pdfand rejected the shalmootho of Syriac orthodox churchhttp://sor.cua.edu/Personage/MGregoriusGChathuruthil/18761216shalmootho.html. As per constitution of malankara orthodox church Article 101 is Absent, whenever Article 1 have no value. The Jacobite syrian church only continue as the branch of Syriac orthodox church then immediately merge Malankara syrian church into Jacobite syrian christian church. Robyrajan916 (talk) 13:38, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speedly merge [[Malankara Church]] into [[Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church]] 

message: Seeing a merging suggestion template proposing Malankara Church article to be merged into this article. But could not find any reasoning in talk pages why the merging required. Malankara Church or Malankara Syrian Church is now an umbrella name which includes many churches. There had been splits happened in Malankara Church and today many churches like Malankara Orthodox, Jacobite Syrian, Marthoma and Malankara Catholic church share the lineage of Malankara Church. In this case, not sure on what basis some user made this merge proposal. Hence removing the invalid merging proposal. Next time some one adding this kind of merge template , please clearly mention in talk page for the reasons for merge suggestion. Thanks - 122.167.225.188 (talk) 00:49, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing the merging suggestion

message: The file  on Wikimedia Commons has been nominated for deletion. View and participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 19:21, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Jacobite Orthodox Church. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:27, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Jacobite Orthodox Church" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Not sure some users are repeatedly removing the population from infobox which is added with references. Please discuss here before removing/editing this filed - 122.182.247.136 (talk) 04:10, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the references are invalid. Adherents.com does not conform to the standards of WP:RS, and the CNEWA site does not list a number for "Jacobite" anything, separately from the Malankara Orthodox. Elizium23 (talk) 04:25, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the quick response. But please go through the CNEWA site , its mentioned that " However, in 1912 there was a split in the community when one part declared itself an autocephalous church and announced the re-establishment of the ancient Catholicosate of the East in India. This was not accepted by those who remained loyal to the Syrian Patriarch. ...... The precise size of these two communities is difficult to determine. But the autocephalous Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church has reported 2,500,000 members in 30 dioceses, served by 32 bishops and over 1,700 priests. The group under the supervision of the Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate [Syrian Orthodox Church] had about 1,200,000 faithful." The group under the supervision of the Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate is Jacobite Syrian Church ---122.182.247.136 (talk) 04:36, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of Members field data from Infobox

message: Unfortunately, this article (and others in the Malankara Church and Syro-Malabar Catholic Church have been the target of sock puppetry as well as meat puppetry and we will be seeking page protection in the long term against vandalism and POV-pushing editing. Thanks for your cooperation. Elizium23 (talk) 12:00, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sock puppetry 

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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion 

message: Does any reader who notices the subtle difference between Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church and Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church win some kind of reward?
Since the second one is a redirect to this article, which is properly titled with the church's official denomination, why is that redirect so? It's very confusing.
By the way, both articles are extremely vague or even reticent, in their History sections, about the 1911 dispute that started the split between Orthodox and Jacobite churches, which is better described  here. --176.247.145.53 (talk) 17:21, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jacobite vs. Orthodox: confusing redirect, missing history 

message: most of your latest edits in this article has been undone due to the following reasons:
* You have not provided citations to show that the content is correct (eg. Archdioceses belong to JSCC etc.)
* You have not explained why you removed the cited contents (eg. Malankara Archdiocese of the Syriac Orthodox Church in India etc.) Jude Didimus (talk) 07:25, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: , Your statement //most of your latest edits in this article// is NOT fully correct. Recently I did only one change in this article -  reverted the changes you made in the article from 16th to 18th March and it was for the reason which I mentioned in the edit summary. Again, the title of this section //Addition of dubious content and removal of sourced content// is NOT correct in its true sense.  I have not added or removed anything from my end. The addition/deletion happened was as part of the restore, and I clearly said its a temporary restore until reaching a consensus in other talk page. Since you already reverted my edit, I don't think anything more to discuss on the above bullet points here.--John C. (talk) 10:32, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  , what exactly do you meant by "temporary restore until reaching a consensus in other talk page"? Other articles, and their talk pages, should have no influence on this article. Also, just as a general notice, you are responsible for your edits, even if you're restoring material previously added by other editors. You essentially take "ownership" of that content, and are required to make a good faith effort to support it with reliable sources. More importantly than that, there's no good reason to remove reliably sourced information. If it was done as part of a reversion, you're generally expected go back in, and restore the cited information. I'm not chiding you here, but rather, hoping that you take this advice on board in the future. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 11:12, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition of dubious content and removal of sourced content 

message: Change the title,Jacobite Syrian Christian Church to Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church 103.82.77.158 (talk) 17:24, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: . Please see WP:RM/CM for the process of requesting a new article name. ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:58, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 23 June 2023 (2) 

message: Please add irenaous paulose bishops name in the bishop list as he is the bishop of Calicut diocesan 152.58.203.100 (talk) 17:13, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 17:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 21 August 2023