Talk:Insular dwarfism

message: Hmmm...I agree about the merger. They seem to be different versions of the same thing, and except for the list of examples, Insular dwarfism has a more developed explanation and is an actual name for the process. --Kaz 21:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: comment

message: In the beginning of the article "when their gene pool is limited to a very small environment"
does not seem to make much sense. Could somebody fix this so that one actually gets some
sensible idea of what insular dwarfism is about.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.143.165.107 (talk) 04:42, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Presentation of the article

message: I was talking to a paleontologist today, and he told me that actually there is an optimal size for woods mammals (about a small dog) and another for plains mammals (like a four-legged human). However species diverge from these sizes when there are other factors besides energy balance. The example he put was elephants who are big to defend themselves from predators. If an elephant species is left alone in an island it evolves towards the optimal size, hence the dwarfism. If it is a small species who becomes isolated, we'll have insular gigantism.
Did I understand it right?
Should this theory appear in the article?
--Error 23:32, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We should hold off on inserting this into the article until we see more examples of it in scientific literature.  Or at least until we come across a layperson-friendly translation--Mr Fink 02:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Balance

message: Are the Japanese really any shorter than other Asians? I was of the opinion that they were actually a little taller than average.  Haplolology 22:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not really sure humans are subject to this effect at all.  I think the smallness of those other island peoples is due to the fact that they were derived from short mainland populations which had been that way for many thousands of years. Haplolology 00:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese people 

message: The Sardinian Lynx article says it was "1 meter long" and the article on the Eurasian Lynx ("biggest lynx" according to it, by the way) says it is "80 to 120 cm long". Surely the Sardinian lynx does not qualify as an example, then, or is the info in the SL article wrong? Also, wasn't the (sub)species a relative recent newcomer, at least compared to other animals like the Sardinian Dhole?--150.244.131.195 (talk) 17:58, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sardinian Lynx 

message: what about some species of lemurs such as mouse lemur wich are really small and one of the smalled primeapes in the world and smaller then its other lemur relatives and they are native to the island of madagascar. so i think some species grew larger like the indri and the  Diademed Sifaka whiles other grew smaller such as mouse lemurs and relatives (and theirs a reason why their called moused lemurs) and some lemurs stayed pretty much the same size while they evolved  and populated on the island of madagascar.--Jasonz2z (talk) 16:02, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Mouse lemurs aren't a good example, because lemurs in general are too small to be expected to be affected by island dwarfing. WolfmanSF (talk) 18:28, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  prime apes 

message: the galapagos penguin is 2nd smallest penguine the in world so may island dwarfism may explain for this?--Jasonz2z (talk) 21:50, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with that idea is that penguins are mostly marine, and therefore not obviously subject to reduction in food supply related to island size. Usually, when we think about insular dwarfing, we are thinking about terrestrial animals. WolfmanSF (talk) 02:31, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about penguins 

message: The borneo pygmy elephant to be exact. cause they live in the tropical islands of asia such as borneo and this may explain y the elephants their r the smallest living subspecies then the mainland asian elephants subspecies found in places like india, and china. And it is possible since paleontoligical evidence suggests that it is possible since remains of other extinct species of elephants known as dwarf elephants did suffer from this and explains y they became so small and their remains were found not to far from the native habitat of the now present borneo pygmy elephant.--Jasonz2z (talk) 13:52, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not the best example, since their history is uncertain (they may be descended from domesticated Javanese elephants); also, they aren't as small as the extinct dwarf elephants already listed. WolfmanSF (talk) 19:15, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  what about elephants 

message: The Dwarf Cassowary is the smallest subspecies of cassowary native to new guenie and is smaller then its larger mainland cousine the Southern Cassowary.--Jasonz2z (talk) 14:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not convinced this is a good example. The Northern Cassowary also lives on New Guinea, but is similar in size to the Southern Cassowary. So, the reason the Dwarf Cassowary is smaller may be that it is a highland species. WolfmanSF (talk) 17:49, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

text: Bali is a much smaller island than Sumatra. Also, Hokkaido and Honshu are separate islands. WolfmanSF (talk) 18:45, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

text: Yes, but my point was that the Hokkaido and Honshu wolves did not coexist on the same island(s), in contrast to the Dwarf and Northern cassowaries. WolfmanSF (talk) 22:10, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  what about birds 

message: defanatly the Baffin Island wolf cause its unuasyually small especially compared to Arctic wolves and tundra wolves. 2 other small island wolves are the Greenland wolf and the Alexander Archipelago wolf.--Jasonz2z (talk) 18:18, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe, but the size difference from mainland wolves appears modest, so not the best examples. WolfmanSF (talk) 18:40, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  other wolves 

message: like the smallest red deer subspecies being Corsican Red Deer and the 2nd smallest the scottish red deer.--Jasonz2z (talk) 16:27, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Corsican red deer appears to be a valid example (I don't have weight data on the Scottish red deer). However, it's not as good as the subspecies examples we already have. If we compare average adult male body weights of the dwarfed to the undwarfed forms, then the ratios are 0.3 (65 lb./ 215 lb.) for Key deer, 0.17 (1/6) for the extinct Jersey red deer, and 0.5 (230/440) for the Corsican red deer. I think we're better off sticking with the more extreme examples. WolfmanSF (talk) 19:02, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  what about deer? 

message: what about the São Tomé Ibis wich is the smallest Ibis  in the world  and is native to São Tomé .--Jasonz2z (talk) 20:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we know the ratio of its weight to that of its relative, the Olive Ibis? WolfmanSF (talk) 05:38, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

text: It would be nice to have more examples of birds, if we can locate the relevant supporting data. WolfmanSF (talk) 00:27, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  the Ibis 

message: The article states that a plot of y = log(body mass/kg) vs x = log(land area/km2) has a slope of about 0.5.  What is missing? WolfmanSF (talk) 16:08, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  plot of body mass of largest species in a land mass vs land mass size 

message: I think it would be useful to have some sort of set of standards for inclusion. Say, a ref. citing the species in question as an example of the phenomenon, or dimensions ≤ 80% of the mainland form, or body mass ≤ 50% of the mainland form (0.83 ≈ 0.5).  How does that sound? WolfmanSF (talk) 07:39, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That's original research.--Menah the Great (talk) 00:50, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that isn't original research, because it states nothing about the definition of insular dwarfism. It is simply addressing a question that we have to address if we are going to list examples: what sort of examples, based on what sort of evidence, do we want to include? WolfmanSF (talk) 02:09, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

text: It's very unlikely that any two species will be exactly the same same. So, without standards, virtually any endemic insular species could be listed as an example of either an insular dwarf or giant. That's obviously not a situation that makes sense. WolfmanSF (talk) 02:28, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standards for inclusion 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It might be interesting to check if the Cuban crocodile and the New Caledonian Mekosuchus species qualify as examples.--Menah the Great (talk) 02:34, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The Cuban crocodile appears to be similar in size to Morelet's crocodile. Both are freshwater, suggesting they are also ecologically similar. Mekosuchus and Trilophosuchus seem to have been generally similar in size at 1.5-2 m, although smaller than Quinkana at ~3 m. The data for some of these extinct forms might be limited. WolfmanSF (talk) 06:20, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crocodiles 

message: This defention should be expanded for lakes and any other isolated environment as explained in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OqUjXEqUtc  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.175.34.162 (talk) 12:12, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defenition expansion