Talk:Béal na Bláth

message: Apart from the bare logainm.ie entry, is there any evidence that an English version of Béal na Bláth is used at all? "Bealnablath" is only the three words run together (and without the fadas). I think it's misleading having it in the first sentence as it is because a non-Irish speaker would naturally assume that it is pronounced "beal" to rhyme with "meal" and "blath" to rhyme with "path". I've never heard anybody in County Cork or anywhere else call it anything but "Béal na Bláth" (or "mBláth") when speaking English.
Also, the current opening, "Béal na Bláth (Irish: Béal na Blá...)", suggests that "Béal na Bláth" is the English version, which only adds to the confusion.  Scolaire (talk) 16:11, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I note that since Roibeárd Ó hÚrdail's letter on 22 August 2012, The Irish Times in its English language articles is now referring to this place exclusively by the name Béal na Blá, which is of course the authoritative version as established by Logainm.ie. It also appears in an English language RTÉ report from 2010. 79.97.154.238 (talk) 18:25, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And other papers too, but that is not the point at the moment. My question is, do we need "also anglicised as Bealnablath"? What is the evidence that anybody uses that anglicisation?  Scolaire (talk) 21:03, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

text: 574 results on Google Books, 20,000-odd on Google in general. It's not as common as the others, but it's in use. And Béal na Bláth is the usual English version, isn't it? — Jon C.ॐ 08:17, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Precisely my point. "Béal na Bláth" is the usual English version. "Bealnablath" is not therefore an "anglicisation", it's merely the running together of the three words, an alternative way of writing it. Apart from the bare "English: Bealnablath" on logainm.ie, there is no evidence in any of the 574 results on Google Books, or 20,000-odd on Google in general, that it is an "anglicisation". My point about pronunciation stands: an anglicisation would either be written "Baylnablaw" or pronounced so as to rhyme with "meal" and "path". The opening as it is is misleading. Is there any reason not simply to say "Béal na Bláth, alternatively Béal na Blá or Bealnablath..."?  Scolaire (talk) 09:05, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine with me. — Jon C.ॐ 09:09, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  English 

message: I agree with adding "Béal na mBláth" as an alternative name in the first sentence, as it's certainly a well-known alternative. It is also covered by the cited logainm.ie page, which (if you click "More") says, "The linguistic evidence does not support *Béal na (m)Bláth..."  As regards the infobox, do we need to fill in the "other_name" field at all? With so many alternatives it seems pointless to pick just one. We have established (I hope) that there is no "English" or "anglicised" name, so I can't see the point of having any alternative in the infobox.  Scolaire (talk) 13:25, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem with removing all alternate names from the infobox. 2 lines of K303 13:34, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Béal na Blá is the correct official name for this place, in fact the sole legal name for it. To remove it from the Infobox is obscurantism and not a little distrust of readers' intelligence and ability to make up their own mind. I doubt any professional historian worthy of the name will refer to it as anything other than Béal na Blá from now on. The evidence supports the spelling Béal na Blá. This article should not try to hide this. 79.97.154.238 (talk) 18:09, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Calm down! "Béal na Blá" is in the first sentence of the lead. It's not hidden. Readers have every chance to use their intelligence and ability to make up their own mind. Not having it in the infobox is not "obscurantism" or anything else; it's just an agreement among editors not to have it as an "alternative name" in the infobox when in fact there are no fewer than four alternative names. "In fact the sole legal name for it"? Please point me to the relevant legislation. You "doubt any professional historian worthy of the name will refer to it as anything other than Béal na Blá from now on"? You may well be right, but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, so we'll just have to wait until those worthy professional historians publish their references in reliable sources.  --Scolaire (talk) 18:46, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Béal na mBláth again