Talk:Balija

message: Provide references from proper sources / old texts / inscriptions to prove varna claims. --= No ||| Illusion = (talk) 05:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: varna claims

message: Please can someone explain to me the connections between Balija, Goud and Idiga, preferably with some sources to back it up. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 11:15, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balija - Goud - Idiga 

message: Unfortunately, this has not been documented properly. Socially it is believed members of Goud / Idiga started claiming to be Balijas and Kapus very recently. Since their customs vary, their claims were / are not accepted by other Balijas and Kapus. 
However, the point to note is that the term Balija merely indicates a trader or a banajiga guild member. So one never knows really. 
In Karnataka, i personally know of Gouds (deve gowda's caste supposedly vokkaligas) who claim to be Balijas; and have successfully married into Balijas also. Surprisingly, they speak Telugu although outside they claim to be Kannadigas, and pass off as kannadigas intact with their pride for kannada language and all that. They worship the same gods, and in that respect there are some ritual similarities. But in customs or rituals pertaining to death, first menstruation of a girl, some wedding customs, etc, they are very different. 
 You are confusing between ‘Goud’ a toddy-tapping caste of Telugu regions and ‘Gowdas’ a title akin to Reddy used by Vokkaligas. The Gouds are called Idigas in Karnataka. Vokkaligas in Karnataka are cultivators. The Vokkalihas are a forward caste in Karnataka, with most sub castes in the General Category. While the Balijas are a backward caste Karnataka. Vokkaligas have never claimed to be Balijas. 05:46, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reply to Sitush 

message: Guys, the 24 manai telugu chettiar caste of tamil nadu also known as Sadhu chetty/ Janappan is also a part of the Balija community according to proper sources.
https://archive.org/stream/castestribesofso02thuriala#page/447/mode/2up
They are also a telugu/tamil speaking caste initially belonging to the Balija, but recently seperated out as a distinct caste. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_four_Manai_Telugu_Chettiars
Please add them in the Balija sub classification if found suitable.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.253.48.237 (talk) 03:35, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither Edgar Thurston nor Wikipedia itself are considered to be reliable. - Sitush (talk) 14:26, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  24 manai telugu chettiar community in Tamil nadu is also part of Balija 

message: Don't use census reports directly - they are primary sources. Furthermore, in the instances where they are being added at the moment, they are also Raj sources. Also, don't use rubbish from the "states" series of :The People of India - this has been discussed at WP:RSN in the past, where it was noted that the series basically just plagiarises Raj sources, often without attribution.
The reasons for poor census enumeration are many and varied, as noted at :Census of India prior to independence. It is pointless trying to hang it on one or two issues when there were in fact so many. Best to leave it with the examples that are already given rather than add more and more of them and attempt to attribute additional weight to certain ones. - Sitush (talk) 11:55, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Sitush, have not used census (plz check, already replaced with Baines's report). You did not tell about "People of India". Ok I will remove it and replace with another source. While we document the census issue, we also provide current representation of the group. Hence, the current wording. If people want to belong to a community, let article represent so. Is understandable why numbers into this group grew so much thru every census. The British were not feudal, they did not remove anyone from their ritual status or banish them. Expectedly, a range of communities, from cultivators to cleaners, got the opportunity for social mobility. It is not uncommon for varied occupations to show sense of belonging to their overlords by professing caste kinship. If various sub-castes want presence in the community; so be it. So, I hope you will let the current wording remain. Thank you.--Anon=us (talk) 12:06, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Baines is WP:PRIMARY. You've got to stop this mission of yours. - Sitush (talk) 12:15, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

text: I meant to add: your use of Suri is incorrect. That paper was for a specific period and place. - Sitush (talk) 12:17, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  But Suri is your source. Which place is it for? What Suri says, Bhatt also says in his book (p.55-56). Is that acceptable? Is Baines primary? That is the official report to the Queen's office. Alright. I will use only your sources. First tell me which I can use? Baker and Talbot are already used in the article. So, can i reword based on Suri / Bhatt, Baker and Talbot? --Anon=us (talk) 12:29, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

text:  Is this source acceptable? --Anon=us (talk) 12:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Where have I used the Suri source in the article? I just raised it on the talk page. Why hammer the point already made from Baker? Bhatt is Gyan - see User:Sitush/Common#Gyan. Honestly, I am beginning to think you have an agenda here, what with all the past asides about inequities of the system etc.Caste-related articles are difficult to write well because they have to be nuanced - what applies in one place at one time may not apply in another place and/or time, and sometimes omitting something or equivocating about it is preferable to making an absolute statement. These are things you learn as you go along but it will probably be more difficult to do so if you have a preconception about the system or whatever. - Sitush (talk) 12:38, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

text: The Kolff source you have just linked is reliable. Not sure what use it is, though. - Sitush (talk) 12:40, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Please restrict to article and do not assume things. Alright will not use Suri/Bhatt. Thanks for Kloff. Will use it. Do you want me to present everything on the talk page before permitting in article; or can i edit without issues? You can point out unacceptable sources. That's fine. But hope you raise them on talk page before reverting. I'll be glad to work around it, before continuing to expand on each of the major subcastes; without of-course touching on the Kavarai group (for that will wait till DRN is done). Thanks.--Anon=us (talk) 12:48, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you'd be better proposing changes here first. Your ability to discern suitable sources is not good at the moment, and that applies to other articles you have edited also. Don't know what anyone else might think, obviously. - Sitush (talk) 12:58, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, will do. You can fix edits in other articles I worked on too. WRT sources, will be glad to be guided along. Thanks.--Anon=us (talk) 13:04, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Sitush. Reg changes, forgot to clarify, I'll do the writing in the article. Am renewing online access to some libraries including jstor and some unis. Its not going to be possible to share content from that in the talk page. You can approve the sources alone. So far, you said Gyan, Raj sources, and People of India is not allowed. You did not clarify if Suri source can be used in the article? Its from the Journal of Indian School of Political Economy. Please clarify on that. Thanks.--Anon=us (talk) 14:11, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

text: Please.. I was referring to my access to sources, not yours. Again, please clarify if Suri source can be used in the article. Thanks --Anon=us (talk) 14:37, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Will you please sort out your indenting. One colon adds one level of indent. I haven't read the Suri source in full, so don't yet know what it can be used for. - Sitush (talk) 14:39, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure. Do you approve the source or the content in the source? I mean, just as you'd approve of a source from new york university press, is it not enough that the article is carried by Journal of Indian School of Political Economy? Thanks.--Anon=us (talk) 15:18, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That is one of the potential problems. I've never heard of that journal and I know that there are a fair few vanity journals - someone whose name I forget kept a list of suspects on the web somewhere until recently. - Sitush (talk) 10:06, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing 

message: The recent repeated removal of sourced info by  has been explained to them on several occasions, eg: here. I have reverted it again. - Sitush (talk) 16:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent removals 

message: Famous personalities of Balija caste  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.39.104 (talk) 19:14, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous personalities of Balija caste  

message: With regard to the recent edit war on this page, please note that the Caste system in India page states:
It is sourced to a scholarly book published by the Cambridge University Press in 2001. That is a reliable source. What any honourable Indian Civil Service member might have said a century ago is entirely irrelevant, and has no place on this page. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:26, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , can I bother you to monitor this page since you have an interest in castes? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:27, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  , sure. I have added to my watchlist. I'll keep a tab and give my inputs. Nittawinoda (talk) 16:35, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Occupational or not 

message: Balija is the combined term of boyas,Gollas, Gavaras and some castes it is noted in the book of velcheru narayana rao in his book published in the 1992 telling as below
Balija
In the Book  "Court and State in Nayaka Period Tamilnadu" by Velcheru Narayana Rao defines as below
  Sathyanarayana naidu (talk) 14:02, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite. From the source that you have quoted, it appears that these other groups like Boyas, Gollas etc. were not originally Balija but seemed to have been clubbed with them at a later point in time. This is the reason that the author lists these other groups explicitly. Note "..but also including Boyas..". Nittawinoda (talk) 16:41, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is already covered in the article. I don't know why Sathyanaraya is raising it again. In fact, the entire history of the origin and development of the Balijas is discussed quite thoroughly. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:23, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balija is combined term or not 

message: kaifiyat not given full details of who wrote it.cannot decide with only the lines of the page in a book. Durjaya vamsam (talk) 04:43, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Book reference 

message: All the books are called Balijas are an offshoot of the Kammas or Kapus, an admixture of Telugu castes. Durjaya vamsam (talk) 04:55, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balijas 

message: Just reverted back to a version of May 2019. I have ploughed through the tortuous history since then and can't see much except edit warring, pov-pushing, poor sourcing and regular contributors trying to stem this tide. I think we're at the point where this article needs indefinite WP:ECP or something like that. If I have missed anything of note then hopefully the other experienced contributors will spot it and fix. - Sitush (talk) 14:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking through the history, ECP is a good idea. Done. --regentspark (comment) 14:26, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  My revert 

message: Balija caste is taken birth from king Bali who is grandson of Bhakt Prahalada.The Balija race either emerged from Brahmin race or king race that means they belong upper caste of four varna system,not from Sudhra race. 2409:4072:614:7589:0:0:2895:40AD (talk) 02:12, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balija caste 

message: Change "Variations of the name in use in the medieval era were Balanja, Bananja, Bananju, and Banijiga, with probable cognates Balijiga, Valanjiyar, Balanji, Bananji and derivatives such as Baliga, all of which are said to be derived from the Sanskrit term Vanik or Vanij, for trader." to "Variations of the name in use in the medieval era were Balanja, Bananja, Bananju, Banajiga and Banijiga, with probable cognates Balijiga, Valanjiyar, Balanji, Bananji and derivatives such as Baliga, all of which are said to be derived from the Sanskrit term Vanik or Vanij, for trader."
The source  from article mentions Banajiga as one of the names used as it quotes "As regards the derivation of this word, the late Mr Venkayya says:- In Kanarese banajiga is still used to denote a class of merchants. In Telugu the word balija or balijiga has the same meaning. It is therefore probable that the words valañjiyam, valanjiyar, balañji, banañji, banajiga and balija are cognate, and derived from the Sanskrit vanij". Hellomesu (talk) 08:31, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Kautilya3 (talk) 12:34, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 June 2022 

message: In "Balija branches", add the following division:
* Dasa Banajiga are also called as Jaina Kshatriya Ramanuja-Dasa Vaniyas and Sadu Banajiga as they were formerly Jain Kshatriyas who were converted into Vaishnavism by Ramanujacharya during the rein of Bitti Deva. They are mostly found in Channapatna near Bangalore. They are clean in their habits, pure vegetarians, follow the doctrines of Ramanujacharya, worship Vaishnava gods, speak Kannada, and cremate their dead.
 Hellomesu (talk) 08:51, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for providing citations to your references . This makes implementing requests much easier. --N8wilson 🔔 21:47, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 June 2022 

message: Telangana,maharastra should also be added into the list of states where balija caste is present predominantly in official records and historical records as mentioned in page. Chandra 2000 (talk) 13:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ~ Eejit43 (talk) 14:01, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 January 2023 

message: Change 
Balija is a caste of the Indian states of Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, and Kerala.
To 
Balija is a caste of the Indian states of Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala and Maharastra. Chandra 2000 (talk) 17:40, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. As far as I can tell, neither Telangana nor Maharastra are mentioned within the page as you claimed. Therefore, we request that you provide a reliable source for this change. Thank you. TimSmit (talk) 21:19, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 January 2023 

message: Change 
Balija is a caste of the Indian states of Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, and Kerala.
To 
Balija is a caste of the Indian states of Andhra Pradesh, Telanganahttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Telugu_castes#Forward_Classes, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, and Kerala. Chandra 2000 (talk) 20:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Kautilya3 (talk) 20:45, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 January 2023 

message: I'm looking around for duplicate arguments in template calls, and I found one for the "quote" parameter in this source: . Could you please change it to ? Thanks! OpalYosutebito (talk) 15:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me!  15:42, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2023