Talk:Felony disenfranchisement

message: The author states: "The practice of disenfranchisement was transplanted to America by English settlers." For many reasons, this seems unlikely. The author should substantiate this or remove it.
--Kjb 19:57, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  US Disenfranchisement inherited from England 

message: I added the section "other countries", but this is still to little for a global encyclopedia.-- ExpImptalkcon 16:40, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's true that "Most democracies give ex-offenders the same voting rights as other citizens", as the article currently says, then there's little need to discuss other countries, unless there's a history of those countries formerly barring felons from voting and eventually abolishing that. Not every topic applies equally to every country. PaulGS 04:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's rather a poor idea to create an article with different sections for every country in the world. If you actually managed to write a section for every one, the article would be too big. In any case such an article would be called something like disenfranchisement for serious criminal offences since no civil law countries and few if any common law countries retain a felony-misdemeanour distinction. While it might be nice to have a more general article, renaming this one Felony disenfranchisement in the United States should do for now. Blue-Haired Lawyer 14:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: US Centric

message: It seems that the charge of racism is a bit of a stretch. Maybe racial discrimination would be more appropriate, but even then one may argue that just because somebody argued that it is racially motivated does not make it true. User:Kotika98  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.94.211.118 (talk) 08:11, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In this day and age I don't believe that it's because of racism.  However I reckon that in every state where this system was used it was for one purpose only - to deny more black people the vote.  Notice how many of the specific laws for this system were enshrined in law after the 1870s and how most of these states are southern states.  Whatever,  the more I read about the great democratic USA, the less democratic I realise that it is.  Excercising ones' right to vote is a basic human right and human rights can be withdrawn if a person is serving time but not afterwards and certainly not for life.  That's just barbaric but then so are many things that the USA continues to do - death penalty, starting wars for oil, attacking countries with the sense to vote for socialist parties, allowing late term abortions, going to church in droves, etc.--Xania talk 22:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

text: I agree that the insinuation in the article that because a higher % of minorities are in prison that it must be some kind of conspiracy to deny voting rights to minorities needs to be removed. This is off-topic, a complete stretch of the imagination, and a fringe left-wing political conspiracy theory.216.114.194.20 (talk) 01:41, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

text: While the US section pointing out a racial impact due to disproportional conviction rates, I'm not sure it is relevant to the article subject.  In fact, it seems like COI to me.--2605:6000:F3C2:8400:9E7:514B:A376:53F3 (talk) 06:53, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Racism

message: Both mean the same thing, but which is preferable? As a legal term, the former is prefered in law, but the latter lay distortion appears to be gaining ground in general media.  Can we get a ruling from the judges, please? Thanks. Foofighter20x (talk) 03:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The latter is by far the more common usage per WP:MOS it should be the title as to the "preferred" legal usage: LANE v. WILSON, 307 U.S. 268 (1939), HARMAN v. FORSSENIUS, 380 U.S. 528 (1965), HARPER v. VIRGINIA BD. OF ELECTIONS, 383 U.S. 663 (1966). (And I'd dozens of scholarly articles) -- Electiontechnology (talk) 03:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disfranchisement v. Dis''en''franchisement 

message: Just being a stickler for terms, I suppose, but the Republic of Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom; hence, any discussion of it belongs in a different section. Perhaps this would be fixed by previous assertions on the organization of the article, however.  74.141.107.176 (talk) 00:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved it to its own section, but haven't had time yet to dot the i's & cross the t's. Rodhullandemu 23:35, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ireland

message: That other article seems to cover other issues such as not allowing felons to possess firearms that are not the same as disenfranchisement as people usually think of it, so I would recommend against the merge. Tisane talk/stalk  17:31, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The proposal there has been removed (there never was one here) as there is no support for this; and no justification given in the first place. Swanny18 (talk) 17:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Loss of rights due to felony conviction]] proposed merge 

message: The arguments section is a bit thin. There is a very fundamental reason why prisoners should be allowed to vote. Many rights exist as firewalls against potential state exploitation. For example, the English right to silence (right against self-incrimination in the US)
came into being because confessions were being forced out of people. The protection against being tried twice for the same crime exists to prevent weak cases being forced through by just prosecuting until there is a conviction. In exactly the same way, the universal right to vote protects democracy because it prevents the state from deciding who does and does not have a voice. In the Soviet Union for example, dissidents lost their rights because the state had the power to declare them insane. Once the state has the power to decide who does and does not get a vote then it is no longer democratic. If I do not like the way that somebody else votes, then I must use my vote to silence them. And this is where the responsibility should be.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.141.94 (talk) 21:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: (Comment)

message: When in the "for" section citations are asked for(multiple Who?'s), but not in the against, it seems to reduce the objectivity of the arguments section.
Fyrfytr1434 05:37, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arguments 

message: Few of the points in the "Arguments" section seem to be sourced and some look suspiciously like original reflections. Elsewhere, the article seems more subtley biased: "Currently, over 5.3 million people in the United States are denied the right to vote because of felony disenfranchisement" (not "because they have committed felonies"). --Lo2u (T • C) 17:01, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arguments section 

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thread_title:  removing POV tag with no active discussion per [[Template:POV]] 

message: I think that the phrase: "Also argued is allowing ex-offenders the right to vote hurts women (and others) who are victimized by crime." should be removed, unless someone can elaborate on this point or provide a good source. The current reference is to a poorly written FOX news article that use this argument to appeal to emotion, and doesn't make clear why the rights of women need to be singled out in a discussion of felony disenfranchisement. The only reason it is mentioned in the linked article is because the article discusses Obama and Romney's policies regarding women. L.livnev (talk) 14:44, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support 

message: these comments about it not being a racist practice in the US are incredible * ask a lower income black about this * just as in the old days people protesting against being kept away from voting polls or even registering were "disturbing the peace" and the federal government did nothing * that also was not racism * comfort distorts the mind * 74.78.15.101 (talk) 18:47, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  that's amazing 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Virginia's situation has been changing as there have been shifts in the Governor's policy and various court decisions have been handed down. Governor McAuliffe attempts to restore rights to any felons who are off of supervision, that he knows of. But there's still an individualized review before he signs off, which imposes a delay between when the felon becomes eligible under the Governor's restoration conditions, and when his rights actually get restored. Also, some felons may slip through the cracks and have to bring their situation to the Governor's attention in order to get their rights restored. Restoration is at the Governor's discretion, and if a Republican like Ed Gillespie gets elected, probably there will be some dramatic changes in restoration policy. St. claires fire (talk) 16:55, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Virginia 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I suggest that this article should be re-named.  The concept of a felony is only used in the United States, so far as I know, making it a US-centric title, even though it covers other countries.  Most other common law countries no longer use this term in their criminal procedure, and certainly no civil law countries do, since it is derived from the common law.  Note that the article Loss of rights due to felony conviction was re-named Loss of rights due to conviction for criminal offence some time ago.  I would suggest as a new title: "Disenfranchisement for conviction for criminal offence". Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:50, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case, leave the U.S. materials at this title, and break out the non-U.S. materials in a separate article at a non-U.S.-centric title. bd2412 T 02:54, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't see that it is a substantial enough article without international aspects. I agree it should be moved. Hairy Dude (talk) 14:06, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Any decision/consensus on the title change? I'm trying to do some updating on the felon disenfranchisement in Florida article but am wondering if it should just be absorbed into this one. If that makes more sense, I'm in favor of having one article that is about the issue in the U.S. and another (or multiple others) for the specificities of other countries. I think most people searching for this in the US would use this language to find it, but people in other countries may be using different terms (as mentioned above). Or keep it as one and be sure the a search for 'felony disenfranchisement' redirects to the new title. pretty new to editing, so not always sure of protocol. Ecs222 (talk) 18:25, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Notwithstanding Joy's re-org, I think that this article really is about the US. I would suggest taking all the bits about other countries and putting them into the existing article:  Collateral consequences of criminal conviction. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 01:10, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

text:  Propose page split for "Felony Disenfranchisement".  Would welcome your opinion. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 03:23, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

text: I had a look and it seems it's been a constant struggle from the get-go, yet the amount of US-centricity has fluctuated over the years so a split can't be trivial. I'll have a stab at it. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:25, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  I suggest we continue this discussion at Talk:Disfranchisement#Felony disenfranchisement merge. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Article needs re-naming;  remove "Felony"

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The map needs to be changed. Oregon does not allow convicted felons to vote while they are incarcerated. See https://sos.oregon.gov/voting-elections/Documents/Voter-Status-FAQ.pdfhttps://sos.oregon.gov/voting-elections/Documents/Voter-Status-FAQ.pdf  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.151.182 (talk) 20:46, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats what the map says. It's a bit tough to tell as the shades are rather close. Frankly, that's more of an issue than any one state. Greater color contrast is needed to make the map useful. It's also an WP:ACCESS issue. oknazevad (talk) 02:34, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oregon