Talk:Minnesota State Lottery

message: Information found on official website for the state of Minnesota Lottery.
I think we need a better intro opener, but I am short on words ::cough:: ::cough:: (hint: someone else write this!)
Grandeandy 00:36, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Better lead

message: Minnesota almost raised the minimum age for all gambling to 21, which is the case in Iowa. However, the Indian casino lobby refused to go along IIRC.
Having a complete listing of a state's scratch games is a questionable idea. These games are very frequently added, and withdrawn. 
I also would like to see Hot Lotto available in more states. I live near Connecticut, the closest Powerball state; the nearest with Hot Lotto is New Hampshire.
216.179.123.239 22:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Minimum age

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Mnlottery.jpg

message: I've tagged Northstar Cash and Gopher 5 for mergers, as I don't feel that single-state games are sufficiently independently notable to support their own articles. Readers would be better served by improved sections in the main state lottery article, where they can be covered with the appropriate level of detail. oknazevad (talk) 19:07, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge discussion 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I removed unsourced content that read like an advertisement for the lottery and a table with broken coding. I see that the article is undergoing several recent edits. If I removed your edits and you disagree, happy to discuss further, or feel free to revert my edits. Other lottery articles (e.g., California State Lottery, Texas Lottery, Illinois State Lottery, etc.) seem to also be based heavily on primary sources and include information on winnings, rules of play, etc. The Minnesota lottery article seems to be no worse / no better than  other articles the genre. Minnemeeples (talk) 17:00, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I think your assessment of the notability of individual state lotteries makes sense, specifically the reliance on primary sources. I do think any claims or interpretations that go beyond simple factual statement probably should be supported by :WP:SECONDARY sources whenever possible. I also think care has to be made to avoid turning the article into a Wikipedia version of the lottery's official website or a guidebook on the lottery because that's not really the purpose of Wikipedia article. The image use also was a bit excess, particularly since most of them were non-free content. The use of images came up at :WP:MCQ#Ludicrous where I tried to point out how restrictive Wikipedia's non-free content use policy can be. Other than the primary logo being used in the main infobox, it's going to be quite hard to justify the use of any other non-free images throughout the article per :WP:DECORATIVE, :WP:NFC#cite_note-4, :MOS:LOGO, :WP:NFTABLES and :WP:NFC#CS; simply wanting to show the non-free logos is generally not considered sufficient to justify a non-free use if there's no real sourced commentary specifically about the logo itself. Logos used for primary identification purposes in the main infobox usually are considered OK, but logos used throughout the body of an article tend to be harder to justify. The article is currently without any citations at all, which is not a good thing; so, instead of adding more unsourced content like was done here it would be better to try and find sources to support the existing content or trim out any contentious content that can't be reliably sourced., and then work on expanding the article if possible. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:32, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I agree with that. I boldly removed a lot of content, but I have no intention of starting an edit war if someone disagrees with some or all of the content deletion and suggests why it should go back. It does seem like most of the state lottery articles contain promotional content from primary sources, and are about how to play it, rather than why the lottery is socially and economically relevant. Many are flagged for various issues, but not consistently so. A project should clean all of them up and come up with a standard format or outline (e.g., History, Rules of Play, Controversies, etc.) and how to rate them. I'm just giving an opinion. I don't have much bandwidth for improvement of this one right now, but can provide another perspective if needed (just tag me). Good luck to you! Minnemeeples (talk) 02:00, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

text: I see your point. What should be added back and what are the best sources for it? Minnemeeples (talk) 22:10, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: A simple list of games (including which multi-state games the lottery participates in), and their general format (i.e., if it's a version of a numbers game, or a draw-six lotto). As for sources, the official site is sufficient; per WP:PSTS, being simple statements of fact with no analysis or likely dispute, a primary source is not unacceptable. Honestly, I think much of the deleted sections should be restored and trimmed, instead of completely removed. oknazevad (talk) 03:05, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

text: Though, the logos for the individual games can't stay per WP:NFCC, so their removal was correct. oknazevad (talk) 03:06, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Where is the list of games published that you mentioned? Happy to take a look. The former content did not have inline citations, and included an awful lot of marketing/lobbying-style content.  Minnemeeples (talk) 04:53, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a look at this revision. Simple list of games with short descriptions. Links to each game's page at the lottery's website would be a sufficient ref to establish the existence and format of each game. oknazevad (talk) 13:12, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of this is uncited and out of date. What contemporary sources do you suggest that indicate which of these games are still offered? Minnemeeples (talk) 14:16, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The official lottery website, which had he wrong url in the infobox, by the way. There is zero wrong with using it as a reference to establish basic fact. oknazevad (talk) 14:20, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Which webpage in particular? I agree that there is a time and place for primary sources to establish certain facts with the proper weighting and context. The prior article relied almost entirely on uncited primary(?) sources and lists of information from annual legislative reports. It also included content about non-notable people, and relied on blog posts as sources (e.g., ). I will try to build back in which games are offered, but I would prefer to confirm what is offered, rather than reinserting disputed content. Thanks for the discussion. I don't want it to appear that I "own" the article. Just trying to help bring it up to a higher standard. Minnemeeples (talk) 14:32, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The official website's "Games" page. We don't need to get too detailed on the way each is played, which is why I pointed at that particular prior revision, as I think it balances the text well, just needs the inline citations to specify each paragraph, as opposed to relying entirely on the external links as it did before (which means it wasn't technically uncited, but it was a poor format). Of course it also needs to be updated, as Hot Lotto was replaced by Lotto America, and they've added the print-and-play games (which are like scratch cards without the scratching). oknazevad (talk) 14:37, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I plan to add some updated revenue information soon. I added the games offered and links to the main articles. Other state games offered tend to change. The articles does not necessarily need to list out every non-notable game. Other thoughts or feedback? Minnemeeples (talk) 21:50, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I don't think we need to list out the individual scratch-off or print-and-play games as those cycle seasonally, just mention that they exist. The other draw games can be listed individually. oknazevad (talk) 23:41, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Promotional-style content and broken table