Talk:Enriqueta Favez

message: Correct Image? I don't think so...
I already saw this image "half-man and half-woman" atributed to Chevalier d'Eon, please see [].  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.196.20.87 (talk) 00:31, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a modern image, and presumably protected by copyright. --Wetman (talk) 07:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The image was used by Swissinfo and/or the historian to identify Favez. () If it's clearly false, we should remove it. As to copyright, modern reproductions of historical (out-of-copyright) images are not covered by copyright. Sandstein (talk) 07:30, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: Hey. I did a look around for other transgendered people, and found that the articles use the pronoun of the identity of which the person identified. For example, Sara Davis Buechner was born David Buechner, but the article uses the pronoun 'she.' A similar case exists at Lady Bunny. Based on this, I would say that the article should be renamed Enrique Favez, and the pronouns should be changed to male. What do you think? — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 17:31, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've since found WP:ID, which says about the same thing. I guess this means using "he" is OK, but since we don't really know a lot about Favez's motivations and preferences, we should limit the pronoun change to the period she assumed a male identity, as suggested by Emily above. I'm not sure about the article title: our practice (WP:NCP) is to use the  name the subject is most commonly referred to, which would be Enriqueta. (She probably used different female and/or male names in Switzerland, France and the US, which we don't know about.) Sandstein (talk) 19:01, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made the pronoun fixes; feel free to tweak them if the changes in pronouns appear awkward. Sandstein (talk) 19:10, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third opinion 

message: Per the overwhelming view of sources, I've moved this back to "Enriqueta"/"she". Even the source cited for the claim that she's a trans man refers to her repeatedly and thoughtfully as a woman. I've added the supposition that she was a trans man, and we could consider adding those categories back in addition to the cross-dressing categories if we think it's something that people interested in the former topic might want to find, but something thrown out as a defense to a criminal charge of fraud isn't exactly the strongest statement of self-identification, and Pagés evidently doesn't think that precludes anyone from discussing Favez as a woman or her life as a woman's life. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:58, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enriqueta 

message: The Wikipedia guidelines on gender identity state that we should "Use gendered words only if they reflect the person's latest self-identification as reported in recent sources". Seeing as Enrique reportedly went on trial and under oath declared himself to be a man trapped in a woman's body, that seems like enough of a recorded self-identification to be worth respecting. The fact that other people of the era (and later) kept misgendering him, and the fact that he was compelled to live out the last portion of his life in a nunnery are irrelevant to how he viewed himself and his gender. I am of the opinion that we should just use the male pronoun for him, but if we can't reach a consensus on that, can we at least rewrite the article to avoid pronouns entirely? ShinySquirrel42 (talk) 00:19, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with this. Sometimes it can be difficult to determine the gender of people like this in the far past; but declaring under oath that you are a man trapped in a woman's body is as decisive as it's going to get. --Aquillion (talk) 17:56, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender identity, again