Talk:Otherkin

message: I think this article should add all of the different alterhumans that exist under this category. It helps people looking for the different alterhumans find the ones their looking for, under the Otherkin umbrella. As I want to write a google slide about therians, and I mentioned Otherkin. But I can't find anything that helps me figure out the alterhumans under this umbrella. Someone who knows all of them, please edit this. ABookForToday (talk) 16:16, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: On the face of it, this seems reasonable since alterhuman and alterhumans redirect to this article. However, this is not a dumping ground for stuff people made up one day that isn't covered by sources that are actually reliable and are actually independent of the subject. Wikipedia is not a subcultural slang database (for which see https://UrbanDictionary.com). I'm sure there's some Battlestar Galactica fan out there claming to "identify as" a Cylon, but that doesn't make it encyclopedic.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  11:32, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Umbrella 

message: This article seems to ascribe the entire origins of this to an "elfkind" subculture, and is missing the fact that a vampire quasi-identity subculture active since the 1990s and started by Mind's Eye Theatre: The Masquerade, along with other LARP stuff which collectively also tended to overlap with various kink subcultures including furry, had an impact on this, and so has later cosplay subculture. I don't really care enough about the topic to do research on this, but someone who does, should. It's misleading to leave out the vampire and other LARP influence. Despite having already cited  sources that go into and even focus on the vamp connections, our article says nothing beyond "The therian and vampire subcultures are related to the otherkin community, and are considered part of it by most otherkin but are culturally and historically distinct movements of their own, despite some overlap in membership" (and much of that reads as original research along "my sub-subculture is magically different from yours so nyah-nyah-nyah" lines).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  11:43, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vampires and LARP 

message: this article has been problematic for a long time, including several requests for rewrite that never get followed up on. most of the sources are extremely suspect (self-published, not peer-reviewed, slanted POV, original research, etc). most of the naysayers have always been identified as members of this fringe community. aside from this, there's a long history of very bad faith argumentation in this page, among other references to it, based on highly offensive comparison to oppressed groups. 2605:8D80:405:1989:42AA:52D1:2A32:7C3 (talk) 23:13, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Which criteria for speedy deletion does it fall under? EvergreenFir (talk) 23:30, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

text: Would you care to elaborate on any of your claims made such as what sources you think are faulty or how it meets the criteria for speedy deletion? Since you know about speedy deletion, the fact articles have to be nominated for deletion, and the history of this page, I presume you have an account, so why don't you log in and nominate it yourself if you think it's so bad? Despite what some may think about this, it is a documented phenomenon with professional researchers looking into it. --StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 03:23, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

text: I just came to the page to learn, and it seems fairly sensible to me. Oppose deletion. Fig (talk) 13:48, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  nominate for speedy deletion  

message: I'm new to editing articles and commenting or anything that needs an account on Wikipedia, but maybe use the term alterhuman? It tends to be more inclusive to other part of the community such as plantkin, or conceptkin.
also yes, I know that I'm probably doing this wrong but like i said, I'm new so sorry for any mistakes 65.117.164.210 (talk) 21:56, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: How would alter- be "more inclusive" than other-?  About the only sourcing available for those ideas other than random internet schmoes' forum posts is another wiki (unreliable source, as user-generated content), Otherkin.Fandom.com, which uses otherkin as a generic/encompassing term, and they also have an article on alterhuman used the same way (so, it's what WP would call a content fork at best or even an outright viewpoint fork, though the site's content leans heavily toward toward the former term). Anyway, not only is it not WP's role to try to duplicate the content and scope of such a site (the material in which seems to be mostly invented on whim by people as they go along, and when based on anything at all but the editor's personal notions, is drawing almost entirely on Internet-forum neologisms and manifestos, mostly dating from 2014 and later. I.e., almost all of it appears to be "stuff I made up one day" combined with "original research". So, we're not in a position per the "notability" policy and "WP is not an indiscriminate collection of information" policy to just willy-nilly add such novel self-identity claims to our encyclopedic material. Even as to the page name, we're constrained by article titles policy, which mostly resolves to using the most common name in independent sources. For this entire subject area, truly independent sources barely even exist, and source usage in general is  in favor of "otherkin", with "alterhuman" barely attested at all .  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maybe use term alterhuman instead? 

message: I think the lead needs some kind of image in it. CycoMa1 (talk) 13:42, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs image in lead 

message: I brought this to WP:FTN, but it's been sitting as-is for a long time so I figured it could use a bit of an overhaul. I don't know much about this community/scene/spiritual tradition and don't want to be too heavy handed. I spent some time going through the cited sources that were here before and removed lots of self published sources, and a few big citations weren't supported by the good sources they relied on. There's still a lot from publishing houses that specialize in fiction, but I don't want to step on toes considering the spiritual/religious elements involved here and I'm not particularly qualified to evaluate them (nor do I want to buy those books to read them). If anyone else is willing to take a look, this page seems to have pretty constant issues with IP drive-bys and WP:RS. 
Any extra set of eyes would be greatly appreciated. Warrenᚋᚐᚊᚔ 11:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite