Talk:Punisher/Archive 3

message: Wow. I have no idea where to ask this, so I thought I 'd bring it to the bottom. Easy to find and all that. First: MAX is separate from 616. Has that been properly addressed within the article? Second: Where has Frank been in the 616 up until the time he shows up in Civil War #5? I came to this article hoping to get caught up, but -- and pardon my French -- but what the fuck? -- Nick Begovich 20:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand your concern, but I believe you misunderstand the purpose of this article.  The article is supposed to treat the character as a phenomenon, not as a real person, and thus the most current stories may not be included as they may not be notable to the character as a whole.  If they were, I do not believe they would nor should be in-depth enough summaries to catch you up on the whereabouts of the character in contemporary 616 books, but rather would discuss changes to the character made by contemporary writers, retcons, etc.  To answer your first question, I do believe that the article treats the Marvel: MAX version as separate, though it's not entirely straightforward, and could use some cleanup.  I don't know the answer to your second question and it may not have been revealed as of yet in the comic books.  --PsyphicsΨΦ 20:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I guess the point I was trying to make is that I came here looking for information, and instead found confusion. I proceeded to come to the message board only to find... arguing. It's frustrating, you know? -- Nick Begovich 21:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Understood.  Sorry I couldn't help more.  I don't know much about the character, but I'll admit there is definitely some work needed on the article. --PsyphicsΨΦ 21:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  yes, no, maybe - MAX is generally seperate but the way (from the interviews they have given) they are treating the punisher is that those are his adventures when he's not hanging around the mainstream marvel universe (in the same way that Alias is "in" but we are not going to have a flashback in new avengers to Cage handing out some backdoor action).  This also gets a wink in War Journal one where he gets his classic outfit on after encountering some badguys. In some respects it's not really worth thinking about too much because the marvel position on his MAX adventures changes from week to week, depending on who's speaking and who's giving the interview. It gets confusing because the MAX imprints take on what is in or out varies from title to title  --Charlesknight 22:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: History Or Something

message: should we include in this article the Punisher's participation in the civil war? †Bloodpack† 06:36, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: i object, civil war events/synopsis, including all those who are involved (even the Punisher) should go directly to the main civil article. We are not gonna put every step-by-step, event-by-event of the civil war here. This article is mainly about the Punisher character as a whole. This article is supposed to treat the character as a phenomenon, not as a real person, and thus the most current stories may not be included as they may not be notable to the character as a whole) †Bloodpack† 17:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should be included, even if it's just a sentence or two about his appearance. It's a legimate appearance and is relevant to the character. —Preceding unsigned comment added by  66.28.71.162 (talk • contribs) 
The more important point-- the one that needs to be included-- is that the Punisher has reentered the mainstream Marvel Universe, and now targets super-villains, as well as "regular" criminals. -- Nick Begovich 00:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Punisher civil war inclusion 

message: Let us reach a consensus if were gonna narrate every detail of the Punisher's participation in the Civil War (comics) event.
*Exclude- i vote to exclude the Punisher's detailed participation in the Civil War (comics) event. A slight background about his civil war participation found in the Revival section of the article is good enough. The rest, i feel, must go to the main civil war article †Bloodpack† 17:12, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Punisher's Civil war participation: Lets vote 

message: So far, Frank Castle has:
*Saved the life and  freedom of Spider-Man.
*Killed the Jester.
*Killed Jack O'Lantern
*Created quite a stir among the anti-registration rebel heroes over whether he should be admitted to their ranks or not.
All four of these are major events in the life of Mr. Castle, and major events in the history of the Civil War. It would be absurd to l;eave them out. Erudil 17:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: not "major" events. until we see the end of the civil war, we cannot conclude that these are the "major" events because theres more to happen †Bloodpack† 17:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Concur with Bloodpack here and with him and Mrph in section above --Tenebrae 02:33, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it's particularly important as a Punisher "life event," but it is worth mentioning.—Preceding unsigned comment added by  66.28.71.162 (talk • contribs) 
It seems to me that refusing to include Civil War events because bigger things might happen in the future is a bit like excluding any mention of the events of September 11, 2001, because something bigger might happen in the future, such as the nuclear destruction of a major city. Well, "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball," as they say, so we should not wait for these future events, but just write down what has happened so far. If anything is eclipsed in the future, then in the future delete what has been shown not to be so major after all. Meanwhile, Frank Castle joining the anti-Registration Rebellion, killing super-criminals and saving Spider-Man are very much major events if we do not do any crystal-ball gazing. Erudil 16:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

text: well, like most everyone said, a basic touch on whats the punisher's stand on the civil war is enough. we dont need to give every single chain of event of the punisher's role on CW or what hes "currently" been doing in civil war. this article is about the character as a whole and NOT an ongoing "comicbook" that we have to update every minute (synopsis) per the CW events †Bloodpack† 17:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Punisher in the Civil War

message: well, the year is about to close and i feel we should archive the talk page, a fresh start for the new year, i think lets end this year before we start another talkpage, just a thought †Bloodpack† 19:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  talk page reminder 

message: Might be worth adding a brief entry regarding The Punisher 2099 to the Other Versions section? As that series ran for almost three years, it's moderately notable. If nobody else gets there first, I'll add it myself in a day or two. --Mrph 23:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yes †Bloodpack† 21:50, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Punisher 2099

message: Seems rather strangely organised, for instance Gorman just shows up out of nowhere. I can't say I know enough about the Punisher to fix it myself, I thought I might bring it to the attention of those who do. Edward Wakelin 03:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early life and military career section 

message: This article categorizes him as a sociopath. However, a sociopath is, and I quote, a person who displays "impulsive behavior, disregard for social norms, and indifference to the rights and feelings of others." The Punisher plans his actions and cares deeply for the rights and feelings of pretty much everyone except criminals. I suggest we change the article to remove him from this category.--TelevisedRevolution 03:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ehh, it's a tough call. The definition of sociopath is very flexible; read the articles on psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder. ~Switch t c g 12:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

text: i think this phrase (from the personality section) pretty much explains why hes a sociopath: Unlike most comic book heroes, Castle also has no dual identity, no "real world" job, no known hobbies and only has few friends. He avoids capture by the authorities not just because of his extensive use of false documents, but also their latent admiration of his work, by eliminating criminals that the police cannot touch for various reasons. He spends nearly all of his time planning his next hit, stopping only to recover from injuries or fatigue. Money taken from criminals is used to purchase food, weapons, ammunition, and pay the rent of one of his many safehouses.The Punisher also disregards what the police and the public think of him, and has been known to kill corrupt cops. In doing so, it stirred the police into heightened action against him and as such, he is viewed as a dangerous criminal by the public and by most members of the superhero community. <span
I wouldnt say hes a sociopath,i'd say he does'nt descriminate when avoiding people.sociopath?No ruclusive?Yes
 style="color:#fff;background:#800">†Bloodpack†</span> 09:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sociopath? 

message: It wasn't actually him. It turned out it was a holographci image and it apeared for about 2 seconds. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.207.252.66 (talk) 19:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  X-men cartoon 

message: This article really needs to be reformatted. Here's how I should think it should be;
Fictional Character Biography: Like every other fictional character this needs to be first. Cover some of his early life and notable things that happened while he was Frank Castle, then the murder of his family and him becoming the Punisher, then anything that really stands out like him dropping the nuke in Welcome Back Frank.
*Publishing History: Who created the Punisher, and everything that's in the Publishing history section.
*Methods, equipment, etc: All this stuff should be put in one section.
*Ultimate Punisher: I think you know what goes here.
*Punisher MAX: This version of the Punisher (they're in different Universes. Just a brief section on how this guy works.
*Other versions of the Punisher:
*Appearances:
*Triva:
Who agrees with me? --Shaoken 02:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i dunno about the rest but as for the Punisher MAX section, pls refer here for it has already reached a consensus †Bloodpack† 15:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reformating 

message: The article frequently switches between referring to The Punisher by either surname of Castle and Castiglione.
Can we do some cleanup on this?  It's quite confusing.  Is his original family name Castiglione and then anglocized to Castle?  Anybody clear on this?  And can someone apply the information to the article and keep only one name here?  
:information given is "Castiglione" is his root surname from his sicilian/italian ancestry then later changed to Castle as his commonly used surname when his family migrated in the US, either ways its still him †Bloodpack† 19:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: go ahead, be bold and make the reference uniformed specifically the character biography †Bloodpack† 19:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

text: im not sure about that, maybe that part should have a  tag, it needs a citation or else it will be considered as original research †Bloodpack† 21:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

text: the Punisher, of course when it starts in a sentence it should be capital T †Bloodpack† 21:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Castle or Castiglione? 

message: I'm not into making these kinds of changes, but someone may want to look into using the new variant cover of War Journal #7 which shows Punisher in a modified Captain America-esque costume.
http://marvel.com/i/content/st/889new_storyimage3793928_full.jpg
Ranhalt 06:00, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, yes he did.  I just want to stress that I felt it was wrong to alter the page based on speculation.  Even if it was right.  TotalTommyTerror 15:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we use this new pic?