Talk:People's Party for Freedom and Democracy

message: I've reincluded some information about the older ideological positions of the VVD, not because I think the new information isn't good, but just because I think it is useful to write something about the historical ideology of the VVD. C mon 06:59, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've edited it a little bit. The VVD from the start was not committed to laissez-faire policies, thus to classify them as a free-market party would be wrong, although they are more likely than any other party in the Netherlands to support elements of such a market. Intangible 01:22, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks fine! C mon 11:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ideology & Issues

message: This is ridiculous, the VVD has absolutely no libertarian streak. It's a liberal party, and is closer to social liberalism than to classical liberalism. To compare it to a party in the US that has only some elected state officials seems absurd, for the VVD has a long record as governing party in the Netherlands for the last 50 years, with many policies contradicting libertarianism. Intangible 12:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded, I'd say it has more in common with the US democratic party than anything else given its views on abortion and welfare. What's considered right wing in Holland resembles the left wing of the USA. --Zero g 00:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  libertarians 

message: The reference states: "For all its free enterprise preferences and emphasis on individual self-reliance, the liberals [VVD] have in fact consistently contributed to the extension of the Welfare State in the 1960s and 1970s. Whereas the emphasis has now changed to the need to curtail public expenditure, and in general to give preference to the claim of the active working population over those who enjoy social security benefits, actual policies (proposed or adopted) are yet far from drastic when looked at in a comparative European perspective." Intangible 15:37, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  welfare state 

message: The part about pillarization around the VVD was probably correct about 40 or 30 years ago. Personal ties between VNO-NCW and VVD can easier be shown for CDA en D66 than for VVD, so I changed this in a reference to MKB Nederland, which has a former VVD minister for chairman. But pillarization in the Netherlands is a thing of the past. My proposal would be to drop the whole paragraph. Of course I would do no such thing without prior discussion. An alternative approach could be to move the paragraph to a history section. 
♥ Stuart LaJoie → overleg 03:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You have a point, I have incorporated the section into the history sections, C mon 09:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pillarization? About which century are we talking!

message: I noticed that the national* elections held in late 2006 and provicial* elections of early 2007 are not included yet in this article (* = lower and upper house). -- Livinginabox 01:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Update: 2006 & 2007 Elections

message: Conservative liberal parties are usually centre-right parties,becuase on economic issues they are moderate right-wing,while on social issues are centrist.So we can define them like above.Right-wing parties are the conservative ones.I understand the Dutch panorama,but ideology and issues are universal!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Itanesco (talk • contribs) 21:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: These classifications are always very difficult. But an argument like "so and so is always the case" makes little sense, this is an article on a Dutch party, not conservative liberalism as such. So let's look at it scientifically. In 2002 the Chapel Hill Survey was held under European voters. The research has a comparative angle. The researchers asked experts from these countires to place the parties in their country on a single left right scale on basis of their over all ideology. This is a 10 point-scale. They gave the VVD a score of 7.4 (For comparison the CDA was given a score of 6.1 and the LPF a score of 8.4). Here is the tricky part: we want to construct a six point-scale, with Far Left, Left, Centre Left, Centre Right, Right and Far Right. We could say that 0-1.7 is far left, 1.7-3.3 left, 3.3-5 centre left, 5-6.7 centre left, 6.7-8.3 right and 8.3-10 far right. That would place the VVD solidly in the "right" category. This however could be seen as violating the principle of "no original research". The argument you can construct, without problems with this original research principle is that the VVD is not particularly close the centre at all, making your proposal to call it a centre-right party invalid. C mon (talk) 06:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

text: You'll need SPSS to open this .sav file. C mon (talk) 14:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  IMO this appears to be a very globalist party, which is weird for a "hard right" party. — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  18:42, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Centre-right 

message: The international comparison section invites UK readers to bring in their prejudices for or against the Conservatives or Liberal Democrats, DE readers to do the same with their feelings about the FDP, and so on for Danish and American readers. This probably contributes more to the illusion of understanding. As it also appears to be original research, perhaps it ought to go. --216.224.124.124 (talk) 03:10, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Posted on request of IP on blocked proxy 

message: The People's Party for Freedom and Democracy is not a centre-right party but a right-wing party.
http://www.artikeltjes.com/artikeltjes/194/1/Is-deze-partij-links-of-rechts/Page1.html
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkspartij_voor_Vrijheid_en_Democratie
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/01/the_rightwing_vvd_were_the_big.php
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/07/farmers_desert_christian_democ.php
81.58.144.30 (talk) 11:56, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political position 

message: An editor has requested for :Template:People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (2020)/meta/color to be moved to another page. Since you had some involvement with Template:People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (2020)/meta/color, you might want to participate in the move discussion (if you have not already done so). BegbertBiggs (talk) 15:22, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  RM at related template 

message: This article (and all others) use blue as the primary color of the VVD. Orange is also mentioned in the infobox, but in all the stats and bars blue is used. I was wondering what the rationale was for this decision. I'm not saying it should be changed, but it seems unclear why blue is used everywhere as opposed to orange. I could find some documents by the VVD on this. This one mentions the new colors, but does not say which one is the primary one (although orange is mentioned first). The VVD website uses blue letters, but switches to orange letters and symbols at the bottom of the page. Page 6 of this document says "Oranje is de kleur die de VVD bij uitstek herkenbaar maakt" (Orange is the color that pre-eminently makes the VVD recognizable). And this document (password is "vvd") again does not have a clear preference, only mentioning orange first. I would love to hear why blue was chosen or what could be arguments for using either one over the other. - Tristan Surtel (talk) 12:20, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have a definite answer, but I guess the rationale for using blue rather than orange is that blue is usually associated with right-wing liberal and conservative parties like the VVD. To give some examples: its Belgian, British, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish and Swiss counterparts all use blue as their color. This is also the reason why coalitions with the Labour Party (red) are called "purple governments". Furthermore, the VVD's shade of blue is more distinguishable when compared to the colors used by other political parties in the Netherlands. The SGP already uses a similar shade of orange (which is traditionally associated with Christian parties), so confusion is avoided by using blue for the VVD. ― Ætoms [talk] 12:40, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It would indeed be confusing for lists with both the VVD and SGP. I guess there's no single official VVD color, so the status quo seems fine. - Tristan Surtel (talk) 14:12, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Party color 

message: Given the Corporatist policies Prime Minister Rutte of the VVD is following, the section on the ideology of the VVD is going to have to be rewritten. Given its World Economic Forum style Corporatist ("Stakeholder Capitalism") policies, undermining independent farming and small business enterprises, to describe the VVD as pro freedom or laissez faire, is clearly absurd. The party may have believed in free enterprise in the past - but it does not now.2A02:C7E:1CD7:8C00:D488:BA38:C834:FD9 (talk) 13:49, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Given the policies the government of the Netherlands is following the section on the ideology of the VVD is going to have to be rewritten.  

message: There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics/Political parties regarding the inclusion of the party flag in the infobox of this article. The thread is Party flags in infoboxes. Thank you. — Ætoms [talk] 23:45, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notification of discussion involving this article 

message: maybe we can consider the party as center to center right ? דולב חולב (talk) 09:22, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any sources that call them center? I have never encountered such a mention. Calling VVD a centre party would also mean there are no (center) right wing parties other than the far right parties in the Netherlands. And then D66 - also member of Renew - would be leftwing. Dajasj (talk) 11:24, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: VVD is center, pieter omtzigt is center right  דולב חולב (talk) 13:55, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

text: No VVD is commonly placed on centre right. Shadow4dark (talk) 12:27, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. The overwhelmingly majority of cited sources say “centre-right”, which outweighs the weight of a single editor’s personal opinion.— Autospark (talk) 14:28, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: "Centre-right" alone is OK. --Checco (talk) 15:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree per above; centre-right (or even simply right) is how the party is domestically referred to in sources. See also the Kieskompas ranking, which puts parties on a grid, that places the VVD definitely right of the centre (and also right of Pieter Omtzigt's NSC party). - Tristan Surtel (talk) 21:29, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Center to center right