Talk:Greece/Archive 2

message: Authenticity check: A search reveals that the phrase "regarded by many" appears in the text. Is the phrase a symptom of a dubious statement? Could a source be quoted instead? Perhaps the "many" could be identified? Might text be edited to more genuinely reflect specific facts?—Wetman
:I did not find this phrase, probably deleted in the meantime   Andreas   (T) 22:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarification

message: HELLAS
===1===
-  	What happened to all the culture that Greeks have stolen from Albania? Music?  	 
- 	What happened to all the Albanian population that is living in Greece? Arvaties, Cham, imigrant Albanians, and the so called ethnic Greeks from Albania? who in real life are Albanians. 	 
- 	What happened to all the land Greeks have taken from Cham Albania and Macedonia which you people modified and make it look yours? Does the words Çameria remind you people of something?86.124.28.175 12:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: =1

message: -  	What happened to all the culture that Greeks have stolen from Albania? Music?  	 
- 	What happened to all the Albanian population that is living in Greece? Arvaties, Cham, imigrant Albanians, and the so called ethnic Greeks from Albania? who in real life are Albanians. 	 
- 	What happened to all the land Greeks have taken from Cham Albania and Macedonia which you people modified and make it look yours? Does the words Çameria remind you people of something?86.124.28.175 12:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 1

message: The most dangerous propaganda is the propaganda of ignorance and this goes to both users above. The problem is, many nationals in the Balkans have an inferiority syndrome over Greece and reminds me of the inferiority syndrome many nationals (including Greeks) have over the United States. This is acceptable in societies to the point that generalized remarks like "Greece is nothing but a conglomeration of many peoples and lands", "Greeks have stolen from Albania" or "what do Encient Greeks have in common with Modern Greeks" etc. are not made.
It's like Chemistry being taught by an English Language teacher (people state remarks without having any knowledge on the subject). The same goes with remarks like "ALL Americans are stupid", "ALL Americans are murderers" etc. etc. just because someone watched a movie or because he judjes all Americans by the acts of their Government. Please lets get serious. Talk about things you know, not about things that just happen to make you feel better 
Especialy about the Macedonia matter it's a very long talk and history does not lie [and in this particular case it's written by the winners, except that Scopjians (FYROM nationals) recognize the same winners (!) as their herittage too...] -- kompikos 3:49, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 3 (Answer)

message: *This kind of indiscriminate nationalistic rhetoric is not helpful. Like in many other places in the world, Greek society has absorbed and assimilated other cultures over the centuries, partly by peaceful and partly by violent means. At the beginning of the 20th century, with the advent of nationalism and the linguistic definition of ethnicity, Greece has acquired territories inhabited mainly by non-Greek speaking populations, but other nations have acquired or retained territories inhabited mainly by Greeks. All this is amply documented in Wikipedia and otherwise. And yes, Greece had at least two episodes of Fascist (or similar) rule. Also, ignorance about some aspects of history is present in today's society, Greek or other. Wikipedia may be a means to improve this situation if editors make an effort to provide information in an impartial and objective way.  
**'When Greece was independent, the very term "greek" did not even exist': of course the term existed, we all know that Greek culture once had been one of the most important in the world. In the 19th century, the Western word "Greek" was considered equivalent to "Hellenic", whereas Greeks called themselves either "Romans" (Romii), or, the more educated ones, "Hellenes" (Ellines). This could refer either to the mother tongue, Greek, or to the membership in the Greek orthodox church. In this sense, many Albanian, Aromaninan, and Slav-Macedonian speaking people regarded themselves as Greek (Romii).  Andreas  (T) 16:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 4 (Answer)

message: I think this article is getting too long -- especially the History section.  The information there should, I think, be in the more specific sub-articles, e.g. History of Greece etc. What do others think? --Macrakis 17:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely.  I suggest moving a lot of the detailed material here into the appropriate sub-articles per Wikipedia:Summary style.  Jkelly 17:15, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Further, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries#Sections gives us a guide as to what sections should and should not be present.  Jkelly 17:35, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Please see Wikipedia:No original research.  Jkelly 17:35, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length of article 

message: This Demographics in the Greece article are Fabricated, some person/s insist on removing ethnic greeks from the Demographics of Greece. Here is what the article states at present
Estimates regarding the ethnic makeup of Greece vary widely; immigrants who are not ethnic Greeks make up somewhere between 2% [5] and 8.5% [6] of the country's residents. Immigrants who are ethnic Greeks may make up about 2% of the population. The main minorites include Turks, Macedonian Slavs, Pomaks, and various Roma groups. A number of religious minorities exist, including the Muslim minority in western Thrace, which makes up about a third of that region's population.
Firstly the estimates regarding the ethnic makeup of Greece do NOT vary widley at all, all contemporary encyclopedias and statistics show a similar result, according to the CIA World Factbook 2006 Greece's demographics are Greek 98%, other 2% .
immigrants who are not ethnic Greeks make up somewhere between 2% [5] and 8.5% [6] of the country's residents
Secondly immigrants who are not ethnic Greeks DO NOT make up somewhere between 2% [5] and 8.5% [6] of the country's residents, if the individual who quoted this actually bothered to read the statistics properly, they would've seen that the CIA World Factbook on Greece states  that the Net migration rate is 2.34 migrant(s) PER 1,000 population, not 2% - 8% of the countires population.
Struscle 06:07, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please adopt a much more civil tone here at Wikipedia.  Jkelly 03:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

text: If you would like to contribute to Wikipedia, being civil is mandatory.  In the future, refrain from name-calling and accusations.  Jkelly 15:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How can you deny the Kurdish Genocide?!?? It has been going on for years! Just like the Armenian Genocide! And stop posting propaganda links. YOU are the one here who is racist, because YOU put all Greeks in one group, calling ALL Greeks Racist and Nationalistic. There you go, fellow, you just proved yourself to be an angry teenager, just like Skyduster said.80.217.144.31 08:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics of Greece must include Greeks 

message: The article said "In particular during 2005, Greece was the top tourist destination amongst Americans." I removed this statement, which is patently false.  I couldn't find 2005 statistics, but U.S. government statistics for 2003 show Greece in 27th place for 2003, and 23rd place using the max of the last 10 years' tourism.  It seems unlikely that in two years Greece increased its tourism enough to match Italy (#5, 460% more tourists), the UK (#3, 1010%) or Mexico (#1, 5900%). --Macrakis 00:25, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  it's obviously bogus. most of the english speaking tourists are british. maybe someone can't tell the difference. --Fs 03:57, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's defintely bogus.  The most popular foreign countries for Americans are Canada and Mexico, whilst Americans make up only around 5% of all tourists who visit Greece, according to statistics that were once accessible through GNTO/EOT's website.  Good job picking that up. Skyduster 23:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  As the Greek state expanded, it came to own territory with many different ethnicities living there already.  The Greek state came to control the land the same way that all countries have, by coercive means, and over time, those people living there either assimilated or had to leave.  This is nothing new... and yes, I've heard of Cham Albanians.  I have a question for you; have you ever heard of Greeks from the Pontus, and what happened to them?  --Xenophonos 06:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bogus tourism statistic

message: Country entries should reflect a country's political dynamics, socio-economic factors, defence and security issues and foreign relations. Also of interest are media issues.Politis 13:06, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But, all of that could be very well adressed exitensively in sub-articles such as History of Greece, History of Modern Greece etc. Only a summary of these sub-articles should be included in this main article. --Michalis Famelis 21:26, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Relevent material at Wikipedia:Summary style and Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries.  Jkelly 21:36, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: History section is huge (τεράστιο)

message: Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring, a poll is currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article.  Please weigh in! --Hectorian 03:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Talk:Republic of Macedonia#POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article|POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article]] 

message: I cut the following here for discussion:
In June 2002, Greek police achieved a major breakthrough in dealing with domestic terrorism when it managed to arrest the members of the Revolutionary Organization 17 November terrorist group. The group had formed in 1974 and was responsible for the killing of several American, British and Turkish officials residing in Greece as well as for the killing of prominent Greek politicians (such as Pavlos Bakoyiannis, late husband of the newly appointed Foreign Minister, Dora Bakoyannis). The trial of those arrested was started in March 2003, and ended in December 2003, with the conviction of 15 defendants. Three defendants were acquitted, all of them on the basis of reasonable doubt , while a fourth defendant, Theologos Psaradellis, was acquitted because the statute of limitations for his participation in a terrorist organization had expired.   
I don't think that this belongs here at all.  See above discussion about length.  This belongs in either the November 17 group article, or as a summary in Law enforcement in Greece, but not here as a paragraph's worth of Greece's 2000+ year history.  Jkelly 17:21, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm down with that.  :) Project2501a 18:19, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Domestic terrorism

message: Quote from section 'culture':
"Greece has a particularly poor culture and it has produced a vast number of contributions to philosophy, astronomy, science, and the arts."
Perhaps something has been lost in translation here, it doesn't make much sense. 81.79.215.123 17:25, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dude, it is obviously sneaky vandalism. Be bold and remove it. --Michalis Famelis 18:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Poor' culture??? 

message: What about Cyprus? Perhaps you mean the world's only exclusively Greek state, but I really see no merit in mentioning that. Why was it in the intro anyway? --   Avg    21:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of "The world's only Greek state" 

message: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Greek) (Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Greek)) - a policy in development for consistent transcription of Greek names and terms (both ancient and modern Greek). You're invited to comment on the proposals. 19:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming conventions (Greek) 

message: I agree with Jkelly and Telex on this one, and I'd ask you not to revert the mentioning of Turks again. Of course there are ethnic Turks among the Muslim minority. What the government says about them is utterly irrelevant. Governments don't get to decide what ethnicities live in their countries. Otherwise we couldn't speak of Kurds in Turkey, Greeks in Albania etc etc either. Sure, the Turks in Greece do not form a minority group in legal terms, i.e. they do not have a special group status or special collective rights qua Turks (they have that only as parts of the larger Muslim group). But that has nothing to do  with whether they exist. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:51, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To Mywayyy: the Greek government does acknowledge ethnic Turks in Thrace . --Telex 15:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnic Turks (to Mywayyy) 

message: I'm glad to see the history section being turned into more of a summary.  I'd like to suggest that the material not be simply discarded, however.  Some of it may belong in the History of Greece articles, not all of which are very well-developed.  Jkelly 17:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are absolutely right. Politis 17:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section cuts 

message: The official Greek site has "Hymn to Freedom". This is also twice as common than "Hymn to Liberty" in Google.   Andreas   (T) 13:02, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Shame. I prefer Hymn to Liberty - for some reason I prefer the Latin words in English to the Germanic ones. --Tēlex 13:05, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Interesting. Personally, I tend to use the words 'Freedom' and 'Liberty' interchangably, but if I had to make a distinction, I'd say that 'Liberty' is a better choice. It seems to me that 'Freedom' refers to specific rights (e.g. freedom of assembly or freedom of speech), but 'liberty' is something more abstract. I also seem to recall hearing, in a political science course many years ago, that 'liberty' refers to the ability to do as one pleases (positive liberty?) and the absence of abusive authority (negative liberty?). Of course, Andreas is right in pointing out that we should conform to the official version, but is it really the "best" choice? TheArchon 13:25, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, English is rather fascinating in that sense (though it is probably not diglossic to the degree that you suggest). I agree with you that for most practical purposes, Liberty and Freedom are synonyms. What I meant is that in certain contexts one term sounds more "natural" than the other. TheArchon 13:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hymn to Liberty? 

message: I think the word documented in this case is very misleading.It gives the impresion that it's a proven fact that they are ethnic greeks.( which for most its definitely not the case) what if we use the word "claimed" or "viewed? or "regarded"  by the greek goverment to be as such?--69.119.50.159 06:51, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: who? Be more specific. --Michalis Famelis (talk) 12:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think i got what 69.119.50.159 means. The term 'documented' is no misleading at all! they are ethnic Greeks. it is not a claim by the greek government. they have immigratted in Greece as homogeneis (belonging to the same nation) and they have all the papers needed to prove that they are Greeks- in order for someone to be documented as homogenis, he/she must have at least one Greek parent, with all the paper work and evidence needed. so, no point in using another word instead. --Hectorian 23:57, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

text: According to the CIA World fact book for Albania: Population : 3,130,000 . 95% homogenus which leaves  only 5% minority(even considering every single ethnic greek migrated form Albania). Even if all this 5% are greeks ( best estimate is around 3%) they can not account for 200.000 people that the article states. Do the math,this is pure POV.  Second, a issued paper by the greek goverment, does not prove the point in question that's why I suggested regarded. Something similar was discussed for the turks above. The goverment gives a legal status,does not change the facts.--69.119.50.159 06:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The term and the privilleges of been a "homogenis" in Greece applies also to the Greek Pontians from the former USSR, the Greek-Americans, Greek-Australians, Greek-Canadians, practically everyone that has greek origins. As for Albania, other sources give higher estimations for the greek minority: an american one . Not to mention that according to the greek government and the church, the Orthodox population of Albania are ethnic greeks (which means somewhere between 20-25%)... not to mention that the aromanians in Albania are closely assosiated with those in greece and in some aspects considere themselves greek as well... U chose to analyse the numbers according to your own ideas... well, that's your POV... --Hectorian 01:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, except for one factual inaccuracy. Greece does not consider all Orthodox Albanians to be ethnic Greeks. It is in fact rather difficult to attain the legal benefits accorded to ομογενείς without documents proving one's Greek ancestry. Far from claiming a large chunk of Albania's population, Greece has been rather reluctant to award ethnic Greek status to the deluge of Albanian citizens that have applied for it. As for the Vlachs, their traditional association (and in many cases outright identification) with the Greeks would help them qualify as ομογενείς. While Albanians are considered ethnically distinct in Greece, the Vlachs are not.--ΚέκρωΨ 10:32, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, it is only natural that different sources with (potentialy) different points of view (or even agendas?) present the data in different ways, or even  different data alltogether. What we should do is present all points of view, courced and cited. For example "the CIA factbook says X, the Greek statistical agency says Y, the Albanian statistical agency says Z". The readers can then assess for themselves which source they consider reliable. --Michalis Famelis (talk) 10:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  documented as ethnic greek? 

message: According to the pictures of this article, Greece consists of a few paintings, and some villages. Surely we could have major holiday destination, a tanker for the shipping community, an olive oil production factory - and no, I do not have the skill to do this :-(  Politis 18:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures

message: Well, now there are just too many of them, at least at the history section... --Michalis Famelis (talk) 21:46, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Too many!!!

message: does Greece use the motto "Ελευθερία ή θάνατος"
:It surely has been around since the Greek War of Independence (1821). I don't know if it's earlier but it could be. --Michalis Famelis (talk) 17:32, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How long 

message: On the Parthenon image, the temple of Athena Nike is missing. Has it been restored since? Is anybody willing to take a new photograph and posting it? See also TA NEA   Andreas   (T) 15:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temple of Nike 

message: Copied from User talk:Tony164#Your reverts on Greece
Hi, why did you re-introduce your edit I had previously reverted on Greece, regarding the Greek Orthodox Church ()? I thought my edit summary was pretty self-explanatory: Church of Greece is factually incorrect in this instance. "Greek Orthodox Church" may be formally tagged as a dab page, but I believe it is actually the most informative place to point to in this instance. I'm a bit astonished at your seemingly mechanistic revert, are you a bot? Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: P.S. May I also ask you to be more careful in general with replacing those links, unless you are very certain about their factual accuracy? For instance here:  - I doubt a Greek church in Hungary would belong to the actual Church of Greece; AFAIR orthodox churches across Europe are under the jurisdiction of the Church of Constantinople, but as long as we are not sure, the more general page "Greek Orthodox Church" seems more appropriate. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

text: For me, the solution is simple: just acknowledge that the page Greek Orthodox Church is more than just a dab page. I've actually removed the tag there. That page stands for something which, I believe, corresponds most closely to what is really most Greek people's actual religious loyalty: the ethnically/linguistically/historically Greek version of Eastern Orthodoxy. That includes both Church of Greece and the ancient Patriarchal Sees, but it includes only to a significantly lesser degree the non-Greek-speaking Orthodox churches of Russia, Bulgaria etc. While this doesn't correspond to a single organisational body within the Eastern Church, it's a coherent cultural concept, and Greek Orthodox Church is where it should be treated. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek Orthodox 

message: Why isn't Albanian listed on the Info-Box as one of the Common Languages, considering the fact that over 1 million Albanians live and work in Greece.Tonycdp 15:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Before people leap into an edit war over this, wait till we clarify what that "common languages" field is actually supposed to stand for, at Template talk:Infobox Country. It was only recently inserted here in the first place, and I'm not at all certain we're using it right. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The field has been removed from the template since.   Andreas   (T) 15:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albanian Language 

message: Is the motto "Liberty or Death" still used nowadays? The only references I could find online stated that it was the motto during the Hellenic Revolution. It seems to be still used by the Greeks, but is it used officially? Google only gives we Wikipedia mirrors and sites that say nothing of the situation today. Pruneautalk 18:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motto 

message: I think we have far to many images in this article. Any ideas on which ones should be removed? --Tzekai 17:47, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it's like vandalized! --Alexignatiou 14:03, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: This page appears to have an addition saying "i love brad fransis for life" at the bottom, which I'm pretty sure Greece doesn't.  Er, I have no idea how to get rid of it.  I just thought I'd point it out.
08:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spam comment left 

message: In the infobox, footnote 1 ('Monarchy rejected by referendum December 8th, 1974.') is never referred.
Does anyone know where to put the 1 in the infobox?
eboy 16:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreferred footnote in infobox 

message: Politis cut out some largish passages of text from the history section , and this was reverted as vandalism. I don't think it was, I take it as a perfectly good-faith effort at reducing an overlong section to bring it more into the format of Wikipedia:Summary style. Please note that this section should be a summary of things that are treated in full detail only in the dedicated sub-articles, especially History of Greece. 
I haven't checked if I would agree with every single detail of Politis' cuts, but I quite agree with the overall intent, so I've provisionally reinstated his edits. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No it was not vandalism. The issue of 'too much history' has been raised in the past and agreed that it needed cutting. The 'problem' is that new editors - welcome to you all - think there is info to be added in the history section because they are probably do not know there are other sections regarding Greek history and aspects of that history. Politis 14:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree. New editors cannot understand ow Wikipedia works. There is too much history there. FOr history of Greece there is a seperate article.--Yannismarou 11:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Politis' blankings 

message: A guideline on whether or not to italicize Greek (and all scripts other than Latin) is being debated at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (text formatting)#Italics in Cyrillic and Greek characters. - - Evv 16:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek in Wikipedia 

message: Greece is a transcontinental country isn't it? After all islands are geographically classified as being part of the continent they are nearest to, and certain Greek islands (e.g. Rhodes) are a lot closer to the Asian mainland than to Europe. Because I'd probably be reverted as a vandal if I slapped  on: by Greeks for insinuating that Greece is not European, and by Turks for promoting the Megali Idea. What does everyone think?--Tekleni 14:39, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: interesting idea. Do you have any notable sources that promote this idea? If not, this would be classified as original research and therefore would have no place in WP.   Andreas   (T) 15:13, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm just quoting this article.--Tekleni 15:14, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole "transcontinental country" thing is silly.  Anyway, Spain has an even clearer claim: not only are the Canary Islands clearly off Africa, but Ceuta and Melilla are actually on the African mainland. France has territories in several continents, many of them legally integral parts of the country (not "territories" but "departements").  Both Attu and St. Lawrence Island (Alaska) are closer to Asia than to mainland Alaska; though Guam and the U.S. Virgin Islands are closer to Asia and South America than to North America, I suppose you could disqualify them as mere "territories".  It's just fertile ground for quibbling. --Macrakis 19:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Tekleni, the article you quote is itself full of original research, I would say it is mainly original research.   Andreas   (T) 19:25, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Asia 

message: This page is cock full of vandalism, which seems to be elft for days and days before reversions are made. Peeps need to speed up.
Yes this article is a mess... -Zulu, King Of The Dwarf People 15:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: The map for this country has recently been changed to a format which is not standard for Wikipedia. Each and every other country identifies that country alone on a contintental or global map; none of them highlight other members of relevant regional blocs or other states which which that country has political or constitutional links. The EU is no different in this respect unless and until it becomes a formal state and replaces all other states which are presently members; the progress and constitutional status of the EU can be properly debated and identified on the page for that organisation; to include other members of the EU on the infobox map for this country is both non-standard and potentially POV.
Please support me in maitaining Greece's proper map (in Wikipedia standard) until we here have debated and agreed this issue? Who is for changing the map and who against? The onus is on those who would seek to digress from Wiki standard to show why a non-standard and potentially POV map should be used. Greece deserves no less! JamesAVD 15:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The EU is a supra-national entity. it is definately not an ordinary international organisation, and it is not (yet) a federation. maybe 'confederation' would be appropriate. but the fact that 25 european governments have shared their sovereighty and have transfered authorities from their states to Brussels (economy, agriculture, and in some fields: army, police, culture, trade, etc etc), and also that citizen can travel and reside in any member state as if they are in their own countries with the same privilleges, and since no borders exist and they have a common currency (i am bored to list more... read the respective article), the EU can definately be highlighted in every member-states article and in the infobox. apropos, read the CIA world factbook (last edition) and how it lists the EU. Regards Hectorian 16:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-standard and potentially POV map should be reverted 

message: the article reads:
"the modern Greek state evolved after 1821-1830 as an independent Kingdom. It increased its territorial area up until 1922, which saw the collapse of the Greek presence in Asia Minor"
which is incorrect. The last territorial change in the Greek state was the addition of dodecanese in 1947. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Orionorbit (talk • contribs) 11:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek State territorial expansion 

message: Is it my computer does anyone else notice the goddamn pics of dicks when you go the Greece article? I tried removing it but could not find its source. Zachorious 01:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This was unrelated to the article. It was in the template  Template:Please check ISBN.--   Avg    01:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Avg is right. Thanks to both of you for helping. A vandal inserted that picture into the template code, and the contents of the template got automatically inserted here without showing up in the page source. The template is protected now, so it should be okay. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove The Giant Pic Of Penises 

message: The opening history section has been  over-shortened and now lacks context ; it leaps from the briefest account of early history to a  detailed account of the 19th century, and lacks the critical linking passages about the continuity of Greek-speaking culture in the eastern mediterranean, and the accompanying illustrations; as well as the reasonable, brief account of the Hellenistic-Roman transition and brief account of Ottoman rule. I remember that the objection was that in places this content replicates what was available on History of Greece and other pages, but  this is often the case as a matter of course on wiki, and more importantly  altogether it provided an interlinking and combined overview not available on other pages .  This is the only page that most people will look at for a broad knowledge of Greece, and it should provide a reasonably full , succinct overview of several pages and general context,  in the way  many country pages do. 
The missing two or so paragraphs I think should be reintegrated and copied from one of the earlier revisions of  a few months ago, and their length is also acceptably short  in relation to the whole article, and given their importance.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jkl62 (talk • contribs) 18:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Important History section now lacks vital context 

message: Jkl62 20:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Edits made

message: as I remember the asssertion was that the area around smyrna contained a greek majority, not asia minor as a whole. I am also making other changes in this sentence order to remove the npov tag.
Kl999 21:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: npov

message: In some sections there are too many photos, and the article tends to look ugly.--Yannismarou 10:18, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes.  We have Wikimedia Commons for galleries of media.  This article needs cleanup.  Jkelly 18:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Too many photos

message: The name of the city (as far as i know and i live at greece) is Patra and not Patras.
I edit it but some people change it again. Is patra called Patras at English? if not why do you call it Patras and not patra.
:Please see Patra and Patras, they are two different links.. The city is located at Patras and Patra is a disambiguation page. Cheers! Baristarim 18:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Patras is the common English name. Don't know where the "s" comes from, perhaps we stupid foreigners thought it sounded more Greek. :-) (and Baris is right of course about the other page being a dab.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:25, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, that was the only reason I reverted. The other page was not the correct link to the city. Maybe I should have left a note in the edit summary, but there has been some sneaky edits lately and I wasn't sure what was going on. Sorry about that :) Baristarim 18:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patra 

message: How do we translate what is often referred to by Greek officials as μεταπολίτευση? For instance, 'από την μεταπολίτευση και μέχρι σήμερα...'. I suggest, 'from the establishment of the Third Hellenic Republic to this day...'; others suggest, 'from the 1974 political changeover...', but giving a date is confusing, the French certainly do not give dates for their 3eme or 4eme Republique. I do not think there exists an official Greek consensus yet. Politis 12:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd probably go for something like "since the reestablishment of democracy in 1974". I'd say that in most contexts it will be necessary to give the date - it's not a matter of any "official" usage, it's just that the clueless non-Greek reader will need the info. See Wikipedia:The Pope is Catholic. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Metapolitefsi

message: This is incorrect, the Greek monarchy was abolished in December 1974. GoodDay 19:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Monarchy Abolished in 1975?

message: When I was last in Meteora, late 2003, I saw no evidence of any 'special lifts' taking tourists up to the monasteries.  On the contrary I had to climb rather a lot of steps.  Is this really correct? kritikos99 14:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Meteora

message: I think we should change GDP and per capita income, because recently a re-evaluated GDP (increased by some 25%) was presented by the Greek Ministry of Economy. Thus current values for GDP and GDP per capita (PPP) are around $299 billion and $30,000 respectively. Please check the economist for example. What is your opinion? Thanx.88.218.35.90 19:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New economic indicators (GDP, GDP per capita)

message: I was viewing the specific topic about Greece and I noticed the major subject of monarchy in Greece. As I know from encyclopedias e.t.c  the royal family has been abolished in 1975 but In my opinion is not wise the Ex-royal family to be represented with an URL in the Greek portal. The Greek constitute does not recognise any royal family even the ex-royal members, so it would be wise to delete the direction URL to the site of the so-called Royal family because in reality doesn't exist for Greece, except some royalists who still believe to them. It is their right to believe everything they want, but the official decision of the Greek parliament and the constitution is that are not recognised. For further information about this subject I can mention the encyclopedias and the books which refer the decisions of Greece upon the subject of Ex-royal family but I'm not doing this right now because of the copyright issue which I respect. Curunvir 14:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Would be wise not to mention the portal to the ex-royal family 

message: Cyprus is not on the European continent, but in the Eu. It needs to have a different color on the map. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lardayn (talk • contribs) 13:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cyprus on the map 

message: Well i would like to know some popular greek names to work on my project so if you know popular greek names please tell me them i would like to know them for a project for school thanks byeWiki8898 22:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Andreas is quite popular, I knew a few Greek friends with that name.
Also theres a name that is pronounced (but unsure of spelling) Kamaikamous or something like that. 
If you're really stuck, use some Medieval names like:
Komnenus
Alexius
I wish I knew more. I hope that helps. Tourskin 21:31, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek Names 

message: "View of the mythical mountain" is hardly the correct wording. Oh no, the mountain is truly real and made of rock. I think the picture caption should be changed to legendary. It has ample legends behind it and myths too, but its not mythical. Unless of course, the photograph somehow captured a non-existent mountain.Tourskin 21:29, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  mythical mountain? 

message: I don't want to revert again the latest change, but which one is considered higher in Greece? Obviously I am assuming the PM has more power, but as is in most European countries the Pres is still considered to be in a higher position. Is there a different status in Greece? Baristarim 01:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pres or PM? 

message: Accession to the European Union 	January 1, 1981 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.193.241.157 (talk) 19:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect Date 

message: Free Apostolic Church of Pentecost has about 20,000 members (look http://img.pathfinder.gr//clubs/files/60167/1.html -in greek). The other Pentecostals are about 12,000 (look http://www.pentecost.gr/English/history.htm)Travis8 12:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek Pentecostals 

message: I really want to get this article up to at least A class, and I'm going to run through and see what needs to be done, but can anyone give me any pointers on things that really need to be rewritten, what needs to be sourced etc? --NeroDrusus 22:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A major rewrite, suggestions?