Talk:Limpieza de sangre

message: the basque territories where conquisted by arabs, the reconquist of Spain started in Asturias, by king Pelayo in Covadonga, so asturians had maintained their original purity not basques.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.77.172.112 (talk) 13:47, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Basque territories

message: Origen (circa 185-c. 254): “For the Egyptians are prone to a degenerate life and quickly sink to every slavery of the vices. Look at the origin of the race and you will discover that their father Cham, who had laughed at his father’s nakedness, deserved a judgment of this kind, that his son Chanaan should be a servant to his brothers, in which case the condition of bondage would prove the wickedness of his conduct. Not without merit, therefore, does the discolored posterity imitate the ignobility of the race [Non ergo immerito ignobilitatem decolor posteritas imitatur].” Homilies on Genesis 16.1
“Mar Ephrem the Syrian said: When Noah awoke and was told what Canaan did. . .Noah said, ‘Cursed be Canaan and may God make his face black,’ and immediately the face of Canaan changed; so did of his father Ham, and their white faces became black and dark and their color changed.” Paul de Lagarde, Materialien zur Kritik und Geschichte des Pentateuchs (Leipzig, 1867), part II
St. Jerome: “Chus in Hebrew means Ethiopian, that is, black and dark, one who has a soul as black as his body.” (The Homilies of Saint Jerome, vol. 1, trans. Marie Liguori Ewald, Homily 3, 28).
 
St. Ennodius (474-521): “Keep your chastity constant. Don’t let the body of a black girl soil yours, nor lie with her for her Hell-black face.” Epistulae 7.21
John Philoponus, Greek Christian philosopher (6th century): “The Scythians and Ethiopians are distinguished from each other by black and white color, or by long and snubbed nose, or by slave and master, by ruler and ruled,” and again, “The Ethiopian and Scythian. . .one is black, the other white; similarly slave and master.” A. Sanda, Oposcula Monophysitica Johannes Philoponi (Beirut, 1930), pp. 66,96 (Sanda’s Latin translation).
Ishodad of Merv (Syrian Christian bishop of Hedhatha, 9th century): When Noah cursed Canaan, “instantly, by the force of the curse. . .his face and entire body became black [ukmotha]. This is the black color which has persisted in his descendents.” C. Van Den Eynde, Corpus scriptorium Christianorum orientalium 156, Scriptores Syri 75 (Louvain, 1955), p. 139.
Eutychius, Alexandrian Melkite patriarch (d. 940): “Cursed be Ham and may he be a servant to his brothers… He himself and his descendants, who are the Egyptians, the Negroes, the Ethiopians and (it is said) the Barbari.” Patrologiae cursus completes…series Graeca, ed. J.P. Migne (Paris, 1857-66), Pococke’s (1658-59) translation of the Annales, 111.917B (sec. 41-43)
Bar Hebraeus (Syrian Christian scholar, 1226-86): “‘And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and showed [it] to his two brothers.’ That is…that Canaan was cursed and not Ham, and with the very curse he became black and the blackness was transmitted to his descendents…. And he said, ‘Cursed be Canaan! A servant of servants shall he be to his brothers.’” Sprengling and Graham, Barhebraeus’ Scholia on the Old Testament, pp. 40-41, to Gen 9:22.
Gomes Eannes de Zurara (official royal chronicler of Portugal, 1453): “These blacks were Moors like the others, though their slaves, in accordance with ancient custom, which I believe to have been because of the curse which, after the Deluge, Noah laid upon his son Cain [read: Cham], cursing him in this way: that his race should be subject to all the other races of the world.” C.R. Beazley and E. Prestage, The Chronicle of the Discovery and Conquest of Guinea in the Hakluyt 1st series, no. 95 (London, 1896), 1:54.
Francisco de la Cruz (Dominican, 1575): “The blacks are justly captives by just sentence of God for the sins of their fathers, and that in sign thereof God gave them that color.” Bartolomé de Las Casas in History (DeKalb, Ill., 1971), p. 417.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.10.2 (talk) 17:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pre-modern Catholic Racial Views

message: Cleanliness of blood → Limpieza de sangre — Revert undiscussed move from Spanish term widely used in academic literature in English to an uncommon English translation. WP:UE should not have been applied here. Discussion above indicates a strong consensus for the move, I am looking to get wider community opinion here, so I've listed this on WP:RM. —cab 23:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fail to see why this is necessary. The only one that contests the name limpieza de sangre is the same user that made the unilateral move. I think we should just revert it if no convincing reasoning is given for the move. Dmcdevit·t 01:21, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed, since the move was a contested one, it was the user's responsibility to poll before doing it in the first place. --JWB 18:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: It looks like there is a problem in the calculation of percentages given.  If an Albino is 87.5% European/12.5% Africa, and a Torna atrás is the product of an Albino and a European, then the Torna atrás can't be less European (75%) and more African (25%) than his/her mother. This would affect the percentages in the rest of the table. 134.121.46.205 04:52, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blood percentages 

message: The paragraphs on Limpieza de Sangre as it relates to Basque heritage ("The claim to universal hidalguía (lowest nobility) of the Basques...The discrimination was still present into the twentieth century in some places like Majorca. No Xueta (descendants of the Majorcan Conversos) priests were allowed to say Mass in a cathedral until the 1960s.") is under the article's primary subheading, "After the Reconquista." While the information provided references a phenomenon chiefly associated with a time period that is, in fact, after the Reconquista, I think taking this section all the way up to the 1960s is a bit much. If this article is to include information on Basque identity and Limpieza de Sangre at all, it should be in its own section nearer the end of the article, as Wikipedia articles on historical periods or events tend to be organized by sections, chronologically. "After the Reconquista" should be limited to the events immediately following the Reconquista and only in those regions under Spanish and Portuguese rule which existed during the Reconquista.  Therefore, any territories which were not under Spanish or Portuguese rule by 1492 do not belong in this section.
The section on the origin of "blue blood" is probably more appropriate as a "See also."
Additionally, the section on the Spanish Colonies does not ever mention the Castas system, nor does it mention Castas paintings, both of which I think are quite relevant. Can someone correct me on this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by KAPet (talk • contribs) 23:05, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Reorganizing/Restructuring Article

message: Was the average person pure or impure?  Do people in Spain now, know if they are or not?  Was there a permanent class of epople whoe were unpure blood and did it affect their Christian faith (that they were judged impure)?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.150.236 (talk) 21:45, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  how much of the population was impure? 

message: This article of Limpieza de sangre has a strong Anglo-cultural bias, because it is associated with race, since race has played a major role in Anglo culture u til very recently. It is also contaminated by racialist and nationalist views from the XVIII and especially the XIX century, that were already forming the basis of more race oriented ideologies. The last Jim Crow Laws, that were a type of Apartheid laws, were still enforced in the US until 1965-7.
In fact, Limpieza de sangre had mainly a religious meaning. A black person could be considered to have Limpieza de sangre, if that person could prove that none of his-her ancestors were of the Jewish or Muslim religion. Later, Limpieza de sangre also took into account not having any Protestant ancestry. Pipo.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.26.48.77 (talk) 01:09, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article has Anglo cultural bias. 

message: The article contains an unsupported claim in section Spanish colonies about the Laws of the Indies restricting emigration to the colonies.  As the article on the Laws of the Indies itself says nothing whatsoever about any such restriction (and neither does the Spanish article), this claim needs to be sourced, or removed. See also Talk:Laws of the Indies#Emigration restrictions on Jews and Muslims.3F. Mathglot (talk) 20:21, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Laws of the Indies 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Footnote 11 appears to be an incomplete source. Therefore it is impossible to verify the source.   ShinobiNoKami (talk) 01:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnote 11