Talk:Srebrenica massacre/Archive 6

message: There is a person who is persistantly trying to eliminate links that deal with the denial of the massacre.  While I understand why were these links placed originally his point to make a note that these links are "genocide denial links" makes sense to me.   Jitse I appreciate your persistance on this article but I think this is a good compromise. --Dado 04:27, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Firstly, thanks for taking this to the talk page. I agree with labelling the links and that's why I included short quotations indicating that they do not represent mainstream opinion. I think this is more informative than using a loaded label like "genocide denial", don't you? -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 15:01, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: Apparently, not enough proofs have been given on historical revisionism page about the reality of denial of Srebrenica. If some think it's an important subject to place on the revisionist page, have a look. Lapaz 23:48, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Historical revisionism (political)|Denial of Srebrenica massacre]] 

message: I think some additional information is needed about the resignation of the Dutch government after the release of the report about the utter failure of the peacekeeping efforts. Up to now the article does not say anything why they resigned and what where the results of the report. What were the failures of the Dutch soldiers or NATO? 84.59.109.206 14:19, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dutch government 

message: I'm a little worried the religion of the Bosniaks was not mentioned very much at all in the article. The article introduction should include a phrase refering to the largely Sunni Islam following Bosniaks. Can someone integrate that in there? 24.7.141.159 16:15, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of refenence to religion of Bosniaks 

message: The article at Bosnian Genocide appears to be a WP:POVFORK with little or no info unrelated with the topic of this subject. It should be merged into this one. See Talk:Bosnian Genocide#POV Fork; merge. Duja 00:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge 

message: "We saw two Serb soldiers, one of them was standing guard and the other one was lying on the girl, with his pants off. And we saw a girl lying on the ground, on some kind of mattress. There was blood on the mattress, even she was covered with blood. She had bruises on her legs. There was even blood coming down her legs. She was in total shock. She went totally crazy." 
source http://www.un.org/icty/krstic/TrialC1/judgement/krs-tj010802e.pdf
:Thank you. I formatted the reference as customary. I also don't see why it is necessary to have the same story, in the same words, twice, so I removed the second instance. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 03:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raped female child source provided 

message: A couple of comments on this section:
:*Using the "Facts about..." isn't quite accurate. What the researchers have arrived at is an estimate. I think it would be wise to change this.
:*The IDC study only focuses on Bratunac, not on Srebrenica
:*Others have contested this estimate. Most seem to cite that between 1,000-1,500 Serbs were killed in Srebrenica and Bratunac during 1992-1993 by Bosniak forces. Please see the Dutch govt report on the Srebrenica safe haven from 2002 (see external links). Of course, various Serb war-time sources cite higher figures (above 3,000).
Please let me know your thoughts before I go ahead and edit this section.  Osli73 12:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Facts about alleged Serb casualties around Srebrenica 

message: As I mentioned in the edit summary the article is 95% based on the Prosecutor vs Krstic judgement which is a primary source so the tag is unjustified.  I do however think that sources in this article should be formated to follow one of the source citing stiles such as MLA_style_manual.  Article The Holocaust is a good example of how to properly format sources for an article and it is a good reference how to use codes (such as <ref name=sourcename> etc.).  I can start on this if there is an agreement. --Dado 18:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formating sources 

message: This article is so bias toward one side that it's unbelievable.  I posted a link to the Bosniak atrosites and it was taken off yet there is a link to the execution of a Bosniak (The uncensored version of the Bosnian execution video Warning: shocking content!).  And there are five more links that are pro-Bosniak (The Association Women of Srebrenica - Official Website, Srebrenica Genocide - Independent Blog, Myth about Serb Civilian Casualties Around Srebrenica - Facts compiled by State Sponsored Research & Documentation Center in Sarajevo, July 12, 1995 Through My Eyes, the Fall of Srebrenica account of a Bosniak soldier in Tuzla, Bosnian Genocide - Independent Web Site, BOSFAM - Non-Governmental group supporting displaced women in Bosnia).  All articles need to be accurate and truthful.--Red Titan 12:30, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosniak bias 

message: This article needs a cleanup in terms of word choice. There are also unverified claims about rapes of children and women that need to be sourced and original research regarding the lack of documented sources for certain instances. 
Guy Montag 21:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Go right ahead... - FrancisTyers · 21:59, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I've been editing the article for about as long as you have and haven't been a serious editor of it. - FrancisTyers · 23:07, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: np :) I'm glad of your work here. Getting this to FA status would be quite a feat. - FrancisTyers · 23:29, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok, I suggest we move such claims to the talk page rather than delete entirely. This way if someone has a better source they can provide it. - FrancisTyers · 00:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lack of sources and biased word choices

message: Below is listed stuff that either needs to be cited, or both cited and re-worded. - FrancisTyers · 00:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seemingly not, although I think the captions need citing more than anything else. It is clear from the clips that they are from TVP. - FrancisTyers · 00:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your point with POV on this article? Be ashamed. It's not hard to go to Holocaust article and put POV because someone once said that numbers are not... hmmm... that high. Apsurd. Leave this article alone, please. You are ruining your image, what you are getting from that when you put POV? Article is full of evidences, citations and references. Remember what I said about Holocaust? It's not good to behave like that and deny genocide. --HarisM 14:43, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you accusing me of genocide denial? Where have I ever said that this article is not true? My complaint is that it isn't appropriately sourced in accordance with Wikipedia policies, see. WP:V and WP:CITE. - FrancisTyers · 15:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not you, sorry, other one. Guy Montag who started all this POV thing. Unnecesary. --HarisM 18:35, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed pending citation or re-wording

message: Is it estabished yet? --HanzoHattori 10:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kozluk date 

message: This section has a number of problems, both POV and language-wise:
According to the report by the Nederlands Instituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie, that led the Wim Kok government to resign (irrelevant to his section and already stated), approximately twelve (I can't find any number stated in the online version of the report,correct me if i'm wrong) Greek volunteers took part in the massacre of Srebrenica. These persons belonged to the Greek Volunteer Guard (ΕΕΦ), an integral part of the Drina Corps and were either members of the Golden Dawn, a Greek neo-Nazi group, or mercenaries. Ratko Mladić himself had asked ((Whom?) to put up the Greek flag after the massacre, while Radovan Karadžić had honored the volunteers. Michas, Takis "Unholy Alliance", Nederlands Instituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie, pp. 17-41 (Duplicated Reference).  
::Actually I did find this .  I also found that there is more to the issue of raising the greek flag than what is noted in the article.  What may seam the most frequent source quoted on this issue is Takis Mikas book  where on the page 22 there is actually a photo showing Greek flag in Srebrenica. Following is my proposed revision:
"According to the report by Agence France Presse (AFP), 12 Greek volunteers took part in the massacre of Srebrenica AFP; "Greek Volunteers Fought Alongside Bosnian Serbs." 13 July 1995;  . These persons belonged to the Greek Volunteer Guard (ΕΕΦ), an integral part of the Drina Corps and were either members of the Golden Dawn, a Greek neo-Nazi group, or mercenaries. According to book by Takis Michas a Greek flag was raised in Srebrenica following the fall of the city Michas, Takis;"Takis "Unholy Alliance", Texas A&M University Press: Eastern European Studies (College Station, Tex.) pp. 22    while Radovan Karadžić had honored the volunteers. Michas, Takis "Unholy Alliance", Texas A&M University Press: Eastern European Studies (College Station, Tex.) pp. 17-41.  "
--Dado 17:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-Serb participants in the killings 

message: In last 7 days we had various edits done on this article that mostly have taken away from its quality so I have resorted to a bit controversial revert to the version as of July 22.  Primarily the reason was because numerous sources and links to sources were eliminated but also because some of the points raised by two last comments on this discussion page.  I do however think that few edits were done to contribute to the July 22 version of the article and I will comb through the article to return those. Also we can address issues raised in last two comments as well .  I hope everyone will find this agreeable because it will be enormous task to go back and fix the errors with sources that were created.--Dado 22:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean-up effort 

message: Dado, how can we protect the page from vandalism and removal of sources?
Is there any way we could protect the page in a way "Holocaust" page is protected?--Bosniak 18:39, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosniak Message to Dado