Talk:Mingus Ah Um

message: AH UM - title
I think this title refers rather to a sort of "black" vernacular rendition of "I am"...giving rather "Mingus I am" and not some Latin grammar schooling. Pray tell where Mingus took Latin?
--I'm no expert on this, but I always assumed that "Ah Um" was AUM, the mantra syllable.  This would be by no means inconsistent with Chaz's spirituality, as, for example, the guy had his ashes sprinkled into the Ganges, eh?  --Jim Pangborn129.3.36.118 18:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that Ah Um seems much more likely to refer to the Buddhist Ah Um mantra, which is from Sanskrit, and means the birth and death.  It is similar to the Alpha and the Omega.  Similar to the Yin and Yang.  All things are encompassed in these two opposites.  As per the other comment, given that his ashes were scattered in the Ganges River, it suggests that he had a connection to Indian spiritual thought.  I wonder if he was ever interviewed and gave some further insight on the album name, and its origins, or on his interest in Asian spiritual philosophies.  - Scott Reinmuth 104.245.131.8 (talk) 05:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I still disagree, User:Cambial Yellowing. You say there are many sources for Mingus Ah Um being post-bop. I didn't turn up any smoking guns in the first several pages of a Google search. Most were websites whose categorization of Mingus Ah Um as post-bop probably derived more or less automatically from its having been classified that way on Wikipedia. I also readily found sites that classified it as hard bop. The source you gave, which I'm going to take as being your gold-standard source, merely said, "Mingus used horn voicings that, in their post-bop
atonality, sounded like twelve-tone Ellington." An album can have elements of a style without being in that style. Could we, for example, classify Mingus Ah Um as twelve-tone music based on your source? And harmonies characteristic of the Romantic period show up in a number of Mozart's works, but no one would classify him as a Romantic composer. If Mingus Ah Um is broadly accepted as being post-bop, it should be easy to find sources of equivalent heft to the one you offered that come right out and call it a post-bop album. If it is, it would have to be the first ever, in which case I'd think books on post-bop jazz would cite it prominently as such. As to your claim that all statements in Wikipedia articles need sources, that's not even close to true in practice, and is only true in theory for claims that are contentious. Still, I'll use your source to support the claim that Mingus Ah Um is a jazz album.Jbening (talk) 13:33, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: All material must be verifiable. Two sources indicate the album is considered as post-bop, one of which has been on the article for a significant length of time. There are multiple others. It has also been called pos-bop for several years. If you wish to remove it you will need to make your case here first. The above is not remotely convincing. Cambial Yellowing❧ 13:39, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm frankly astonished, User:Cambial Yellowing. Have you read anything about post-bop? Just check out the Wikipedia article for starters. This album simply doesn't qualify, unless one breaks new ground by substantially broadening the concept, for which one would need really substantial sources. As I said earlier, Mingus is hard to classify, so the prudent approach would be to just classify it as jazz, as the vast majority of other Mingus albums are classified on Wikipedia. Mingus Ah Um's implausible classification, however longstanding, is the outlier here, so the burden of proof should be on whoever wants to insist it's post-bop, and the sources you've given don't justify that claim, for the reasons I've already stated. At this point, someone else should step into this discussion. And you could dial back on the condescension. Jbening (talk) 14:59, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: You provide no sources for your claims whatsoever. I have indulged you and added a third source, even more explicit, and again published by a major university press. You're right that the burden is on me to show that sources state the album is post-bop. The claim is not an extraordinary one. Multiple cited reputable sources explicitly make this claim, so that burden is more than satisfied. Before posting a comment opening with "Have you read anything about post-bop?" and finishing with "you could dial back on the condescension", I suggest perusing this article. Lastly, it should be apparent that this page is on my watchlist; it is not necessary to ping me on every reply. Cambial Yellowing❧ 15:15, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post bop? 

message: I'm totally confused about the spelling of the first track, and hoped to come to Wikipedia to find out. Sadly, no definitive discussion is here in Talk, nor is there even acknowledgement that the track is spelled differently here than other places on the internet.  
My CD copy of this album uses this title: Better Get Hit In Your Soul
I have seen the following alternatives:
(Wikipedia) Better Git It In Your Soul (which matches many of the album covers I've seen)
Better Git Hit In Your Soul
Better Git Hit In Yo' Soul
Better Get It In Your Soul
I'd love to see a useful discussion about this variety. I'm sure it would be enlightening. Haryadoon1 (talk) 06:31, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: All of the releases I sampled on discogs give the title as in the WP article. The only place I personally have seen it differently is on Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus, as Better Get Hit In Your Soul. That album consists largely of re-recordings of Mingus compositions with new titles--most of which titles are altered even more dramatically. Jbening (talk) 16:31, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  First track title spelling