Talk:Hydrogen production

message: This material originated from the article Hydrogen economy. KarenAnn 17:08, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: this is quite incorrect and needs deletion or serius change, if aluminum is consumed it is not catalyst and whole process is just usual chemical reaction.
it is impossible to generate hydrogen with any catalyst without temperature gradient because that violates laws of thermodynamic.
also same effect can be achieved using aluminum amalgam instead of nanoparticles  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.61.66.75 (talk) 22:37, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Nano-technology

message: In the "chemical production" section it shows the overall equation Al + H2O → Al(OH)3 + 3H2.  Does anyone know what they do with the leftover Aluminium hydroxide?  Armadillo1985 (talk) 04:15, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disposal of the Leftover [[Aluminium hydroxide]] Al(OH)<sub>3</sub> 

message: Normally one who talks about Hydrogen production refers to the process of generating hydrogen in large quantities so that it could meet the need of industrial practices, but this "chemical production" mainly introduces a storage method of hydrogen. I understand it is actually the process of hydrogen production, but isn't it a bit different from other methods? Like using bacteria, heat or electricity? I mean maybe it is better to be put in another category. Dcbayer04 (talk) 12:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: the part about hydrogen storage is removed, the same section is on hydrogen storage - metal hydrides. Mion (talk) 13:24, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the "Chemical production" section 

message: Well organized! That's what a Table of Contents should look like ideally. Maybe a Conclusion section would be good.  Just a few sentences summing it up. KarenAnn 00:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone has done some good work on this page. 

message: Water purification is not a method of hydrogen production. I've deleted again. --Pjacobi 18:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The following articles relate to or are required for the production of hydrogen.. reg. Mion 20:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

text: "Water purification" was listwed as a method of hydrogen production. This was and is still wrong. You cannot produce hydrogen by purifying water. Mion I must severely doubt your qualification for the project you try to do here. --Pjacobi 07:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The first step in most chemical synthesis is purification of the starting materials. But it's rarely mentioned. And it's not always necessary. Hydrogen can be made from seawater. In fact, in electrolysis, it's necessary to use impure water. Give it up. SBHarris 08:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Water purification" 

message: Photoelectrochemical cell.Mion 04:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photoelectrochemical cell 

message: I have heard of using surface uranium for extraction. I am sorry but i dont remember where, but the idea was that if you found an area with high amounts of radon, you would be able to extract hydrogen from water due to nuclear decay.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.78.78.201 (talk) 02:18, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: argon

message: As I already mentioned in Talk:Hydrogen_economy, Jerry Woodall, a researcher in Purdue Discovery Park, has made an interesting discovery. The article describes a chemical process in which water reacts with aluminum, the latter effectively stripping water molecules of their oxygen and freeing hydrogen. The gallium prevents formation of aluminum oxide film which would stop the continuous reaction. The reaction takes place until either aluminum or water runs out. More informative description of the process can be found in a Flash-based presentation Woodall has compiled. Does anyone have more information and any thoughts if this should be included in the article? --Khokkanen 19:43, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: that seems to be spinof of old technology of aluminium mercury amalgam which I saw on some very old chemistry book.
and now someone put that in the nanotecnolody section as another method.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.61.66.75 (talk) 22:40, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aluminum-Gallium pellets produce hydrogen from water on contact 

message: The folks discussing John Kanzius are proposing that content be merged into Hydrogen_production.
The problem here is that it is not clear what Kanzius is claiming.
Is he or is he not claiming that he gets more energy out than the RF input?
If yes:  then it appears a water as fuel proposal
If no: then he is apparently claming a highly efficient method of producing hydrogen.
Which is it?
Kaznius himself is not making any public comments, he does not even have a web site.  The statements reported and attributed to him have been contradictory.
Meanwhile, his strongest supporter so far, Dr. Rustum Roy, states (as of 13th Sept 2007):
"He has not made any attempt as far as we know to obtain the data regarding the energy balance between input and output."  http://www.rustumroy.com/response_to_email.htm
The problem here is complete absence of data on the input and output energy numbers for the process. It is puzzling as to why this is being kept so secret..... I can understand secrecy about HOW it is done, but secrecy as to WHAT has been done makes no sense. Charles 15:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I oppose the merge. See Talk:John_Kanzius#Problem_with_merge_proposal ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 16:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[John Kanzius]] 

message: What year was hydrogen first produced on an industrial scale? By who?  Trekphiler (talk) 19:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be close to 1823, see Döbereiner's lamp, Mion (talk) 20:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Gettin' a date

message: Why doesn't this page mention anything about hydrogen being obtained by reacting metals and acids? metal + acid = salt + hydrogen
220.253.62.89 (talk) 15:58, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Hydrogen production from metals and acids

message: Does anyone know about photo-chemical splitting of water?  Basically, the reaction happens you mix a transition-metal catalyst with water and shine light on the solution.  I vaguely remember hearing them talk about using Rhodium or Rutherfordium but I'm not sure.
I'll start doing some research myself in case no one else has heard of it.
Here is an example  of what I'm talking about: 
Armadillo1985 (talk) 06:45, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo-Chemical Splitting of Water 

message: A Hydrogen Production Breakthrough [January 27, 2009 |
http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2009/01/27/a-hydrogen-production-breakthrough/
A. Welford Castleman Jr., Eberly Family Distinguished Chair in Science and Evan Pugh Professor in the Penn State Departments of Chemistry and Physics and Penn State graduate students Patrick Roach and Hunter Woodward and Virginia Commonwealth University Professor of Physics Shiv Khanna and postdoctoral associate Arthur Reber announced a discovery to produce hydrogen from water by exposing selected active sites of aluminum atoms on a nanoscaled aluminum cluster.
The study paper was published in the 23 January 2009 issue of the journal Science and was funded and supported by the Air Force Office of Scientific Research.
 Mike D (talk) 15:26, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Hydrogen Production Breakthrough 

message: Can someone write what the "Steam-iron" process for producing hydrogen is? It's probably one of the things already listed in the article, just not referenced by that name. 146.115.34.7 (talk) 10:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See 1784 on Timeline of hydrogen technologies, the article iron-steam process isn't written yet, but it contains some reading. Mion (talk) 19:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

text: The steam is used in Iceland to produce electricity which is used for the electrolysis of water, see geothermal power  and . Mion (talk) 20:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Or do you mean this news , pag 2 ? Magma and water, but then, the hydrogen is not only contaminated with sulfur. Mion (talk) 20:47, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steam iron process 

message: Synthetic biology too is coming up with hydrogen production methods. However, at present it has not yet produced a viable organic hydrogen generator. Synthetic biology and hydrogenSynthetic biology to make hydrogenSynthetic biology at Berkeley Lab  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.246.167.92 (talk) 10:59, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Methods of production

message: it is stated that hydrogen can also be made by reforming fuel. This is also possible on-board of vehicles. Not sure whether there are emissions; think so
see http://www.h2net.org.uk/PDFs/RN_1/HydrogenMLW.pdf  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.246.162.118 (talk) 09:08, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Fuel reforming

message: I added this in the 'From water' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production#Decomposition_of_Water_by_Radiowaves. Please review. Could not find reviews of the efficiency, doubtful if any have been published yet. Regardless of efficiency, it seems to work, at least in North America. Could not obtain a copy of http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=4651925 - they seemed successful, but hard to say from the abstract if its related.
Casimirpo (talk) 01:51, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no requirement to be stored, if hydrogen is produced, thats it, as it was removed in the last clean out, i'll put the section here for reinclusion (or not), the section has been part of debate on Talk:John Kanzius. Mion (talk) 23:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

text: There seems to be literature on the subject proving its not a hoax. See Penn State ref. As unsigned could have noted if they weren't so busy sniping. I request undo - not only is this novel, it is important. Casimirpo (talk) 18:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Decomposition_of_Water_by_Radiowaves

message: Here are the mehtods listed by Ullmann's Encyclopedia, which tends to be very thorough:
4.1.	Production from Coal and Hydrocarbons
4.2.	Electrolysis
4.3.	Thermochemical Water Cleavage
4.4.	Other Methods for the Cleavage of Water
What is missing in terms of methods that are really useful is the oxidation of hydrocarbons.  Heavy residua containing lots of sulfur are oxidized to give H2.
The large section about Al being a hydrogen source is misleading and the length and referencing is disproportionate.  I feel bad just throwing that part away, but it is nearly criminal to suggest that Al is a source of H2.--Smokefoot (talk) 23:41, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Aldo right, other encyclopedias use old school classification, current work and classification is at http://www.nrel.gov/hydrogen/proj_production_delivery.html, about AI, if it grows to big we split it out to a new article, it would be funny to remove knowledge to keep the sections small. and yes, the AI section needs to be more clear. Mion (talk) 23:56, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  One problem is that the Al section relies on primary citations (see WP:sources).  I will try to find a review or textbook that summarizes that area and replace these references with something more general and more reliable.  The second problem is that the Al + NaOH reaction is not a production method in the usual meaning of the term (and article title).  Even some other readers complain above about its inclusion.  Otherwise, this article becomes a summary of all reactions that yield H2.  E.g. one long paragraph per reactive metal, a large section on thermal cracking in petrochemicals, a large section on formic, etc. etc.  A book in other words.  By the way, thank you for your contributions.--Smokefoot (talk) 01:26, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the original version also stated that the aluminium was consumed in the process, however if it is a two step process with recovery there is little problem with it, for me, I would welcome every extension of the 350+ thermochemical cycles as that information is currently locked in a database. And, your welcome, i'm sorry i can't contribute more to the article. Mion (talk) 03:34, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, the first part of Chemical production belongs to a new section History, maybe filled with similar information from  :) Mion (talk) 04:08, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Production methods

message: How does this project work:
http://arpa-e.energy.gov/FundedProjects.aspx (ARPA-E Affordable Energy from Water and Sunlight project)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.176.8.225 (talk) 10:45, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: ARPA-E

message: Under Chemical production, we see this:
"(1) Al + 3 H2O + NaOH → NaAl(OH)4 + 1.5 H2 
(2) NaAl(OH)4 → NaOH + Al(OH)3 "
This may be an extremely stupid question, but shouldn't a truely balanced equation not have a fractional coefficient? And also, when you have 3H2O on the left, doesn't that mean that it will result in 6 hydrogens on the right, therefore a coefficient of 3? And also, we've somehow gone from having only one hydroxide(OH) on the left to having 4 on the right - how? (this is all for the 1st equation) 
Again, possibly a stupid question - it's been years since I took chemistry. 
Thanks!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.170.51 (talk) 02:13, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Stupid Question (maybe)

message: :See Talk:Water_splitting#merge. Mion (talk) 22:55, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Water splitting 

message: Perhaps that, besides Daniel Nocera's system, the solar reactor too could be mentioned
91.182.139.124 (talk) 14:42, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Solar reactor

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Dear editor(s), 
You have quite a task at hand because things have not stood still. I am only a layperson but sort of keep an eye on this topic. Someone who has more understanding than me please explore: 
1. University of New South Wales+hydrogen production from ocean water with solar/wind
2. Toyota Melbourne (Australia) is getting involved in this after Australia's CSIRO developed a method to store hydrogen as ammonia (NH3)  and invented a process (with a metal filter?)  to use the hydrogen for burning, i.e. transport and electricity. There was talk about mobile refuelling stations, in the beginning. Refuelling with hydrogen is said to be as quick as with petrol.
3. Tokyo Olympic village is to run on hydrogen. 
4. There is some pilot plant in Port Lincoln, South Australia
Someone who understands these things better than me should, please, check these things and update the page.   2001:8003:A02F:F400:3D7D:186:A6DA:4CD0 (talk) 00:01, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: We are mostly laypeople too - feel free to update the article if you can cite reliable sources Chidgk1 (talk) 17:18, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  New developments? 

message: The section has two definitions of PEM - which is correct?
Also I can't find the definition of SMR (also DOE but that is obviously Department of Energy). Is it steam reforming?
Wayne (talk) 09:51, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried to clarify the section, however still needs some work. --Ita140188 (talk) 13:46, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Electrolysis

message: There are four major references for the claim "95% of hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels" used at the top and in the first section: 
Unfortunately,  are quite old for such a relatively fast-moving field, and  is an online article that only casually mentions the number 95% without referencing any sources.
:Feel free to update the number if you find a more recent reliable source. --Ita140188 (talk) 02:02, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weak references for shares of production methods 

message: This chemical reaction at room temperature is known since the 1960s. Raising the concentration of gallium in the composite also increased hydrogen production. source: energynews.biz, Applied nanomateriale). 151.19.26.110 (talk) 21:22, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alluminium+gallium 

message: Maybe this is too detailed, however it would be good if somebody could check if some article like this one and/or Electrolysis of water for example need an update to related info contained in the article and whether there should be a brief mention of these methods. They're featured in 2023 in science like so:
In two paywalled studies (4 & 30 Jan) separate teams of researchers report substantial improvements to green hydrogen production methods, enabling higher efficiencies and durable use of untreated seawater.
 Prototyperspective (talk) 17:05, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure which methods are current and which are experimental so I may have put some in the wrong section - could do with some help on this article Chidgk1 (talk) 09:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  New production methods that may require updates 

message: I've removed the following: "The production of hydrogen plays a key role in any industrialized society, since hydrogen is required for many chemical processes.Energy, U. S. D. o. The Impact of Increased Use of Hydrogen on Petroleum Consumption and Carbon Dioxide Emissions. 84 (Energy Information Administration, Washington, DC, 2008)" There is no page 84 in this document. I searched for the words "industrialized" and "society" in the PDF file and got no results for either search. This statement appears to fail verification. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 18:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Considering that it's the basis for the production of fertilizer, which it can be argued is the foundation of our modern civilization, I think it's a quite self-evident statement (we still probably need a reference eventually, but it should be easy to find) --Ita140188 (talk) 12:34, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Key role in any industrialized society