Talk:Holotropic Breathwork/Archive 1

message: This page is almost a direct copy of the About Page on the external link given... what is the license on the source work?
I can see only a superficial resemblence. The article will use the same jargon words and so appear similar.  
I agree to he merger of the 2 wikipedia articles Lumos3 15:20, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging pages 

message: The criticism section was neutrally worded, but the edit on 21 Sept by Lgib was not. Articles should maintain a Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. I have reverted to the earlier version, and noted the controversy in Line 1.Jedermann 13:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted to NPOV criticism again. The criticism section is fully referenced at present. Lgib's paragraph is not, and appears to be an expression of personal opinion about why Breathwork attracts criticism. Discuss here first. Jedermann 13:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Following the anonymous edit on 20 October, I have reverted to NPOV criticism. More edits to follow in due course. The Communicator 17:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I've contextualised this paragraph now --Jablett 10:30, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  WP wants ascertainable and supported facts - these are provided in the Criticism section. Editors' opinions about critics' motives are at best Original Research, at worst POV: both are non-WP. Jedermann 16:42, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reinstated the offending paragraph, in view of the reference to HB as "a potentially dangerous form of severe hyperventilation". I think the reference to MDMA is also relevant, given Grof's own background in LSD and MDMA experimentation (until these were made illegal), and his link with Doblin (as made clear in the quote from Sampson). Given this background, HB should be seen in the context of psychedelic psychotherapy, and criticisms made of the latter may often pertain to the former. The Communicator 15:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reversion to NPOV criticism 

message: The use of the term 'controversial' seems unquestionable in the light of the following:
1. The decision of the Findhorn Foundation to drop HB in the light of the critical report commissioned by the Scottish Charities Office.
2. The negative press reports attendant upon number 1 above.
3. The critical remarks in a number of published books.
4. The evidently controversial way in which my original NPOV critical section has been edited and re-edited.
The Communicator 14:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Constant removal of the 'controversial' tag amounts to vandalism. Jedermann 15:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

text: That may be, but one of the most strident critics of HB (Kate Thomas) was not a native of Findhorn, and had only recently moved to the area because of the Foundation. Her criticisms had nothing to do with residing in the neighbouring town of Forres, but were based on her own experiences in the field of "metaphysics", as documented in her autobiography. Similarly, the report by Professor Anthony Busuttil had nothing to do with the residents of Findhorn or Forres. The Communicator 15:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Please clarify! What are the "unorthodox practices"? Your reference to power politics on my part is a supposition. The Communicator 15:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: See Controversy: "A controversy is a matter of opinion or dispute over which parties actively argue, disagree or debate. Controversies can range from private disputes between two to large scale disagreements." As the above article indicates, many Wikipedia entries explicitly employ the term in their titles (e.g. Stem cell controversy). The Communicator 15:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The criticisms address HB on more than one level. From a scientific point of view, HB is experimental, and the context is not relevant. In the context of "self-discovery" HB is criticised by Castro, Shepherd and Thomas (and, by the way, implicitly by Meher Baba in God in a pill? - which strongly criticises the use of psychedelics for "self-discovery", before Grof was forced to switch to hyperventilation). The Communicator 15:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: MAJ, your comments contain a number of inaccuracies (including the unwarranted accusation of misquotation), which I address below, under "Criticism section too long". If you have anything to say, say it here first, rather than vandalising the criticism section. Also, if you feel the article is unbalanced, you can augment the sections before and after the criticism section, most of which were not written by me (with the two exceptions listed below). For all of these reasons, I am reinstating Jablett's version of 29 December, which includes the reference inadvertently removed by you. The Communicator 15:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appropriateness of the term 'controversial' in relation to HB 

message: Dear Steve Castro, aka The Communicator. "You may cite your own publications just as you'd cite anyone else's, but make sure your material is relevant and that you're regarded as a reliable source for the purposes of Wikipedia. Be cautious about excessive citation of your own work, which may be seen as promotional or a conflict of interest. When in doubt, discuss on the talk page whether or not your citation is an appropriate one, and defer to the community's opinion." See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Minehunter 12:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Minehunter, I am not Steve Castro, have not published any books, and therefore can declare that there is no such conflict of interest. Furthermore, I provided my own credentials some time ago (I note that you have not done the same) - I have added to that information today, which I hope will serve to distinguish me from Steve Castro and anyone else cited in the HB article. The Communicator 14:47, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In which case, Communicator I apologise unreservedly. My credentials, or lack of them, are already posted below. I continue the dialogue below under Kevin Shepherd reference. Minehunter 16:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflict of Interest 

message: Google Book search, 22 Nov 06
The Life and Teachings of Sai Baba of Shirdi - Page 53 by Antonio Rigopoulos - 1993 "Kevin Shepherd refers Sai Baba's birth-date to circa 1850; ..."
Images of Women in Maharashtrian Society - Page 264 by Anne (EDT) Feldhaus - 1998 "... a Sufi who died in 1931 and whose tomb in the Pune Cantonment is still very popular as a religious center, is described by Kevin Shepherd in A Sufi ..."
Theologische Realenzyklopädie - Page 547 by Horst Robert Balz, Gerhard Müller - Religion - 2003 "Kevin Shepherd, A Sufi Matriarch. Hazrat Babajan, Cambridge 1985. ..."
It is clear that Kevin Shepherd's work is in good repute with academic researchers in Comparative Religion. Note that Google Book search can only search books that have been digitized by Google, and this list is therefore not comprehensive or definitive. Jedermann 15:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Academic citations of KRD Shepherd