Talk:Ehime Maru and USS Greeneville collision

message: There are two places where a distance is given in "miles", one of which is not converted. Are these nautical miles? --Milkbreath (talk) 22:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm assuming one of the two you are referring to is the final location of the Ehime Maru that was given as 16.5 miles south of Barbers Point, under the Salvage and recovery section. I've found several sources that give the actual location as 12 miles south, and one Navy source that lists it as nautical miles. Let me know what other distance you're looking at and I'll see if I can find a source. - auburnpilot talk 00:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nautical miles? 

message: I think the red background of the textbox makes the title almost impossible to read easily. I suggest someone with better knowledge of hexadecimal change the color to something more readable. Thanks!RSido (talk) 00:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree and have changed it to a more subdued colour. The Web colors article has a list if anyone doesn't like my choice. Bazza (talk) 10:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahhhh! Thank you so much Bazza! I realize now, after the change, how distracting that bright red was. This is much improved. Thanks, Ariel♥Gold 11:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red background 

message: This article includes the image :Image:Book cover the right thing by scott waddle.jpg for which not only is there no fair use rationale, but for which no fair use rationale is possible given that it is a copyrighted book cover and that the article includes no critical commentary of the product whatsoever. How on earth did this article make it to the main page? There have been Good Article failures for less. Skomorokh incite 02:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair use does not mandate "critical commentary". It is a 4-factor balancing test. Obviously, the amount of the book used is extremely small, so that's valid. Use is educational (informing people that Waddle wrote a book, and it looks like this), so that's valid. Effect upon work's value - neutral or positive by letting more people know of the book. Nature, public non-fiction work. It is completely within the bounds of fair-use. --Kazuaki Shimazaki (talk) 07:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Even so, the image needs a fair use rationale to stay in the website as per WP:NFCC. The uploader has been notified. (On a purely personal note, I think that it does not meet criteria #8.) --朝彦 (Asahiko) (talk) 07:38, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia policy requires that book covers are only used to illustrate articles discussing the book. If you don't believe me, read the tag of the image :Image:Book cover the right thing by scott waddle.jpg. Outside of the caption (which wouldn't exist without the image) The article doesn't even mention the book let alone discuss it. There is absolutely no need for a book cover to illustrate that Scott Waddle wrote a book. A short sentence mentioning the book would be sufficient. It's generally accepted practice that an article must cover a book in some detail to warrant the inclusion of the book cover Nil Einne (talk) 08:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahh, but the book is one of the major sources used for the article. Cla68 (talk) 12:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But how neutral a source is that? --SaberExcalibur! 18:54, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A source doesn't have to be neutral itself - there would be very few available if that were the case - it just has to be used in a neutral manner. If the sentence is something like "Waddle claimed that ... [book ref]" then there isn't a problem. 160.103.2.223 (talk) 19:20, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing fair use rationale for image 

message: Why a photo of Tipper Gore?  So far as I can tell from the article, she had nothing to do with anything.  It comes across as a political slam, implying that she was one of the VIPs on board at the time.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.99.30.179 (talk) 14:26, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why was she at the helm of a nuclear sub in 1999?  Maybe the picture could be replaced with a footnote list of all distinguished visitors to this particular submarine in the past and since the incident.  I wonder what the current restrictions for distinguished visitors are.  I am also curious about why the Ehime Maru converged on the surfacing location of the Greeneville.  Was it purely coincidence or did they spot activity in the area caused by the Greeneville's maneuvers and mistake it for activity that would indicate good fishing in that area?  Did the captain of the Ehime Maru ever comment on this?  Also, why was this article picked as the featured article for December 11, 2007?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjl1969 (talk • contribs) 15:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's because of the plan to name the Los Angeles class submarines after cities in the states of senators that voted to approve the spending bill for the Los Angeles class submarines.  The Greeneville is named after Greeneville, Tennessee. Tipper and Al Gore are from Tennessee and Tipper Gore, being the vice president's wife at the time, ended being the person to christen the Greeneville.  (sources:  and the book The Right Thing.  I do consider it a bit odd that there's a picture of Tipper at the helm for this article.  That picture really belongs on the USS Greeneville (SSN-772) page but there's also no good place there to put it while the Ehime Maru and USS Greeneville collision page does provide a convenient context in that part of the article is about the DV program. Marc Kupper (talk) (contribs) 11:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Tipper Gore? 

message: In reading this article I noted the presence of some crude language that has no legitimate purpose in this article.
Please review Paragrapg 3 in the "NOTES" section immediately following the end of the article. Paragraph 3 states (See wording towards end of the paragraph):
Notes
^ Kyodo, "U.S. to extend hunt for missing crew of ship by one day", USN, Report of Proceedings, p. 2, 14, 79-85, Waddle, The Right Thing, p. 108-118. Civilians on board USS Greeneville: According to the U.S. Navy, 16 civilians were on board the USS Greeneville on February 9, 2001, when the submarine collided with the Japanese vessel Ehime Maru. Jay Brehmer- Overland Park, Kansas, Carol Brehmer- Overland Park, Kansas, Jack Clary- Stow, Massachusetts, Pat Clary- Stow, Massachusetts, Helen Cullen- Houston, Texas, John M. Hall- Sealy, Texas, Leigh Anne Schnell Hall- Sealy, Texas, Mike Mitchell- Irving, Texas, Mickey Nolan- Honolulu, Hawaii, Susan Nolan- Honolulu, Hawaii, Anthony Schnur- The Woodlands, Texas, Susan Schnur- The Woodlands, Texas, Todd Thoman- Houston, Texas, Deanda Thoman- Houston, Texas, Ken Wyatt- Golden, Colorado, Some ass fucker Catherine Graham Wyatt- Golden, Colorado, Source: U.S. Navy Pacific Fleet Public Affairs Office http://archives.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvg1249 (talk • contribs) 22:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On a related note, the section "Court of inquiry convenes" calls the victims and crew of the Ehime Maru "terrorists" and "pirates". PelicanHazard (talk) 01:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Cla68 (talk) 06:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crude Language Noted 

message: I don't think I've ever seen a revert like this one before, reverting the best part of a day's worth of edits.  Main Page FAs attract a lot of attention and edits but not all are negative - to revert most of the changes is quite severe.  It's also quite annoying to have positive edits simply wiped out without a second glance.  violet/riga (t) 00:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The amount of non-productive edits was far more than the good ones and hopelessly intertwined.  If some of your edits were reverted, I apologize and will try to add them back myself.  Another reversion shouldn't be necessary now that the article is off the main page. Cla68 (talk) 00:52, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps, but FAs are normally closely watched and negative edits fixed quickly and easily.  I'm surprised to hear that so many poor edits got through.  violet/riga (t) 09:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've had five featured articles in which I was the primary editor appear on the main page, and this one was damaged the worst of all of them after its day in the spotlight.  Although people were trying to keep up and revert the vandalism, a lot of it got through, which I noticed when I looked at the last revision.  So, I took it back aways.  Now that it's off the main page it should be stable enough to continue with improvements without them getting mixed up with garbage.  I appreciate your good edits to the article and I apologize for reverting them.  I tried to re-add them.  If some are still missing I'll help out in putting them back in. Cla68 (talk) 10:16, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As a general observation, vandalism seems to be getting worse at the moment. I guess that it's due to school being out in many parts of the world in the lead-up to Christmas. --Nick Dowling (talk) 10:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks for that - sorry that you had to deal with such problems.  violet/riga (t) 11:02, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major reversion 

message: Dear fellow contributors
MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted. MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this. 
There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:
Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. I'm seeking feedback about this proposal to remove it from the main text (using a script) in about a week's time on a trial basis. The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text in the prevailing format for the article, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. BTW, anyone has the right to object, and my aim is not to argue against people on the issue. Tony (talk) 12:59, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to remove date-autoformatting 

message: The second section currently states "For this mission, Greeneville was to carry 16 civilian DVs, including 14 CEOs and a sportswriter and his wife".
However the supposed list of civilian passengers includes a number of individuals who are the wives of CEO's.   Were there 14 CEO's  plus several of their wives,   or does the total of 14 include the CEOs ( less than 14 of them )  and several of their wives?122.106.246.138 (talk) 06:59, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fourteen CEOs ? 

message: *"Japanese school holds memorial for sunken training ship" (Archive). Honolulu Star-Advertiser. February 10, 2012.
WhisperToMe (talk) 00:51, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Memorial article 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120406181001/http://www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1207-07.htm to http://www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1207-07.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It may not fit in this, but just in case:
* https://web.archive.org/web/20010619083221/http://lookjapan.com/LBopinion/01MayVPp.html from Look Japan
WhisperToMe (talk) 20:00, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional source 

message: The pic of the sub in dry dock does not show damage.  Is it possible to find, and include, at least one pic (close-up?) of the damage?
Also, do any pics exist that show the damage to the Ehime Maru?  The one underwater pic in the article really doesn't show how extensive the damage was?
Or if not a pic, a rendering?
Just curious. 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 20:54, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  More and better photos