Talk:Singular they/Archive 2005-05

message: "Singular they is common in informal speech and becoming more common in formal speech. It is used because there is no singular gender-neutral pronoun in English that is considered appropriate for people."
Excuse me, but this is simply untrue.  The singular gender-neutral that is appropriate for people is "one".  "He" is masculine, "she" is feminine, and "one" can be either neuter or ambiguous.  Aside from which, even "it" would be more appropriate than a singular "they"; though rather rude, it's at least grammatically correct. --Corvun 04:10, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: "They" refers to a specific person, "one" doesn't — as you say, using "it" is rather ... distancing? Not sure if that's the best word to use, but try pointing at someone and saying "it walked the dog". 219.89.178.158 11:19, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Singular ''they'' vs. the pronoun ''one''

message: I'd like to point out a related topic I haven't seen covered in wikipedia:
:- "Singular we" as a polite form of addressing. 
Can someone proficient in English write an article please?
Usage example (sorry, my language is not very British where it is expected to be):
Long time ago I've seen the following cartoon. A ragged old lady picks flowers around the Buckingham Palace into a bouquet with a tag "Happy Birthday to Her Majesty". A policeman approaches her with: "Aren't we the lady who sent a dozen of Royal Railroads teaspoons to the birth of Prince Albert?" 
-- mikkalai
: If someone wants to add something appropriate to we, that'd be nice. :) Martin
::My fault: it seems the usage I described has already been covered in dictionaries (see below). ---mikkalai
::"We ...4. Used instead of you in direct address, especially to imply a patronizing camaraderie with the addressee: How are we feeling today?"
::The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.
: Singular second-person 'we' does indeed often sound patronising or condescending: "aren't we looking cute today?"  I agree it should be mentioned on the We article.  I am trying to think of a use in which it is polite.  Mbp 02:42, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Singular ''we''

message: I was reading through the article, and there seems to be some stuff which has to do with gender-neutral language modification, but nothing really to do with the "singular they" per se.  For example:
:"In the latter case, the most usual thing to do is to recast the sentence in the plural ("Doctors might find themselves...") or second person ("If you're a doctor, you might find yourself...")"
These are examples of the "plural they" and the "singular you," not of the "singular they."  Such recasting is a way that advocates of gender-neutral language get around the shortcomings of the "singular they" and reasons why opponents of such language modification feel that it's an udue burden for people to have to "recast" their sentences in order to be politically correct.  But yeah - I think Wikipedia can present both sides of that debate in the gender-neutral language article, and that this article should be confined to stuff which is directly relevant to the "singular they."  --Blackcats 00:15, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You make a valid point, but you must keep in mind that there's more than one side to this debate, and that several of the sides are specific, hence directly relevant, to the issue of "singular they." (In a sense, there's more than one debate here: whether gender-neutral language is worthwhile; whether singular "they" is grammatical; whether its gender-neutrality trumps its supposed ungrammaticality; whether it's best to use singular "they," "he or she," general "he," or a contrived pronoun; whether it's better to avoid that debate when possible by recasting the sentence in a naturally gender-neutral form (by pluralizing or second-person-ifying); and so on. Many of these debates are specific to English, and to the nature of singular "they," so should be discussed here.) Ruakh 14:35, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Irrelevant stuff