Talk:Souvlaki

message: The image in this article is so wrong. Not representative of a typical Souvlaki. pinikas 17:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Contacting my Greek friend for a better one :) Aaron Lawrence 06:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Included Image

message: Greek is older than Latin; Greek did not derive souvla from subula; they are cognate languages, both derived from Indo-European, not from each other.
This "derivation" is Western European bias.
167.115.255.20 16:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True, Greek literature goes back further than Latin. But Byzantine Greek did borrow some Latin words, especially in areas such as law; just as modern Greek borrows some Italian words (like "pastitzio"). ---Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 11:00, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology fubar 

message: Hi: I have removed french fries from the list of standard ingredients since they are not part of the "pure" dish and are rather a recent addition, esp. to be found in restaurants that serve tourists.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.7.3.7 (talk) 22:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded. Moderatelyaverage (talk) 16:51, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  No french fries in "traditional" version 

message: shish is turkish şiş, means needle,also it seems like a greek theft of culture like baklava,lokum etc. ,because, şiş kebap and souvlaki are similar,only a difference that şiş kebap is only from meat,also i heard a tale that the name of grill that souvlaki cooked in called mangali by greeks, which is turkish mangal (etymologically arabian menkâl)
Girayhan (talk) 22:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. I highly recommend keeping petty nationalism out of Wikipedia. Those who can't accept this policy are welcome to leave. Moderatelyaverage (talk) 20:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Both are true. There are certainly references to this sort of food in Homer; less so in later and Hellenistic literature. On the other hand, dishes of the shashlik type are found all over Turkic-speaking Central Asia, the Ottoman Turks did not borrow them from the Greeks. Whether the Greek (and in particular the Cypriot) version descends from the ancient Greek tradition or from the Turkish shish kebap is a moot point, and probably unanswerable. The use of pork is not decisive: in Spain too there are pork kebabs, which were clearly borrowed from the Moors but then adapted to a Christian context. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 12:55, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  shish  

message: While I do know that Islamic countries make their equivalent of the souvlaki using lamb's meat, I am a bit puzzled to see the reference that souvlaki has traditionally been made from lamb's meat, because I've never encountered it; in all my 35 years, I've only known souvlaki from pork meat - only in later times, when healthier foods became more fashionable, have I seen souvlaki made from chicken or veal. Moderatelyaverage (talk) 14:16, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lamb's meat in souvlaki? 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on [[Souvlaki]] 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on [[Souvlaki]] 

message: User:Deadwords, you recently deleted—twice—a well-sourced etymology of the word 'souvlaki'. You said: "Citation redirects to Wikipedia page as source making no mention of unsupported claim." which is a bizarre claim. The citation does not redirect to a Wikipedia page. The two sources are the two best modern Greek dictionaries—the Babiniotis and the Andriotis dictionaries. Indeed, there is a Wikipedia article about the Babiniotis dictionary, and one about its author. What "stronger sources" do you have in mind. As for "one which definitively excludes Ancient Greek as an origin would be ideal", that is a strange request, as though for some reason you think that "by default", modern Greek words come from Ancient Greek: many do, many don't. By the way, for readers' convenience, I have added a direct link to the Andriotis dictionary on line. But most sources are not available on line, and there is no requirement to cite on-line sources. --Macrakis (talk) 13:15, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: The history section is weak. It interprets primary sources tendentiously, and cites dictionaries which don't actually support the claims being made. Yes, Aristophanes talks of using obeliskos (spits), but he specifically mentions skewering thrushes (little birds), not chunks of meat. One of these days, I'll check out the other ancient sources, and see if they're any more specific. As for Liddell and Scott defining ὀβελίσκος and ὀβελός as spits, that doesn't tell us how they were used. Of course, it's plausible that they were used for chunks of meat, but the source doesn't support that. --Macrakis (talk) 13:33, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I have now looked over the ancient sources. They all mention the word obeliskos (skewer), but none of them does so in a context which clarifies how the obeliskos was used. It is certainly plausible that they were used for chunks of meat, but they might have been used for birds (as is explicit in Acharnians 1007) or who knows what else. The Homer passage does mention cutting meat and putting it on a spit, so I have left it in, but it is just as likely that the pieces of meat were big as that they were small, so it is WP:OR to call that 'kebab-like'. --Macrakis (talk) 20:00, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: History section needs work

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on [[Souvlaki]] 

message: Why does the See also section refer to * Döner kebab, a Turkish-Ottoman dish, as a "Turkish version of Greek gyro", when the Greek version of the dish and its etymology derives from the Ottoman Döner kebab? Also see page: Döner kebab and where it also mentions a known fact that """, and in ". (and) the town of Bursa, in modern-day Turkey, is often considered the birthplace of the vertically-roasted döner kebab.Kenneth F. Kiple, Kriemhild Coneè Ornelas, eds., Cambridge World History of Food, Cambridge, 2000. . Vol. 2, p. 1147."... whereas when it comes to its use and introduction to other countries, "" and the derivatives themselves are exactly just that: derivatives...
I'm also thinking it's a possibility that including:
"Doner kebab – Turkish version of Greek gyro
Gyro (food) – Greek version of Turkish doner kebab"
might just be an innocent but unnecessary attempt to make this page neutral?
Whatever it is, it's just incorrect and misleading. Nargothronde (talk) 00:53, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doner Kebab is a Turkish-Ottoman dish. If there are any variants they fundamentally derive from this fact. 

message: where was it founded, when, how, who made it can you reply with a more detailed but short summary  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:704D:A200:98D0:1AED:8236:B3C6 (talk) 02:30, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  history