Talk:Shiva/Archive 2

message: I was just wondering why the Devanagari spelling of Shiva (Siva) is incorrect. The way its spelled it says Savi, and not Siva.
:: Savi !!!!! It's always Shiva or Śiva--Redtigerxyz 12:19, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Devanagari Spelling 

message: An answer to this seems to be missing here. Maybe this is difficult point to raise, but it :Dseems absolutely central.  There seems to be no "explanation" (if I can put it like that) of what Shiva "represents" as a God.  I can understand the need to not prosyletize here, but still, a brief contextual explanation of relevence within a religious context, is surely sufficiently neutral to be included.  Because such an explanation is both central and indeed critical to any form of understanding of the concept behind the "label",  it must feature in any attempt at definition/description?  Maybe it's easier to ask this question by giving an example of a possible answer: "Shiva, the destroyer, is worshiped not for the futility and hopelessness of destruction as an end state but for the role of destruction in the creation of  the new and what is yet to come.  As such Shiva represents a key element of the circle of life.".  More simply put "Shiva is the answer to the question 'Can entropy be reversed?'!!" (The subject of The Last Question by Isaac Asimov) Ok, that may well be rubbish.  But could someone who knows clarify this?  I'm off to hunt elsewhere.  I found the reference to the Trimurti (eventually).  There seems to be a bias ijn the article towards certain forms of explanation.  I'm sure that as a religious article this is a minefield.  But a reorganisation of the heding information might help.  I've added a reference to the Trimurti at the beginning.  It seems crazy to start with the Shaivanistic role unless that is the historical of the word.  If so then couldn't that be explained first.  The article is great if you already know about Shiva but a bit wobbly if you don't or aren't clear. IMHO
LookingGlass 07:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does Shiva represent . . . . . 

message: In the Name of Shiva section I expected to find at least the names most circulated in common coinage (i.e. Pashupati, Bholanath, Bhutanath, Maheshwar, Kailashpati, Pinakpani), and found none. The scholarly references are fine, but an ordinary person looking for stuff on Lord Shiva would need to know at least some of the names. Aditya(talk • contribs) 11:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where are the names? 

message: According to Ramakrishna Paramahamsa (The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna):"Rama is the guru of Shiva, Shiva is the guru of Rama".82.123.51.141 (talk) 10:04, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rama is the guru of Shiva 

message: shouldn't the shiva sutras be mentioned in the article? Teardrop onthefire (talk) 08:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  shiva sutras 

message: * Move to Shiva (Hinduism) and let plain Shiva be a disambig page? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 17:55, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to Shiva (Hinduism) and let plain Shiva be a disambig page? 

message: I have re-written deleting the not so encyclopedic, long list of temples to include only important temples as done in FA Ganesha.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 14:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temples 

message: At the top of the article, the name Shiva is given in Deva Nagari script. There is an error in the text. It actualy reads as "Shavi" and not as "Shiva". The crescent mark appearing on the top of the second letter, marking short vowel "e" should appear on the first letter 'Sha". I do not know how to do this. Someone capable of doing so may correct it.
Gururajbn (talk) 03:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see Help:Multilingual support (Indic). You must have an older computer operating system and/or internet browser. Please view the page I linked to you to see how to fix this problem. Thanks GizzaDiscuss © 04:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shiva in Devanagari script 

message: This article, I feel, needs serious editing. Many details are superficial. There is no mention of the origin of Siva. The section on the historical origin is unacceptably large. why cant we create a new section for that one? Also, the lead contains information that are recurring.
--213.130.121.43 (talk) 10:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restructuring the article 

message: I was wondering if we should add the linga and yoni to the attributes section.  My knowledge of Hinduism isn't the best so I'll leave it up to more learned to people to decide whether or not to add it.Gpshaw (talk) 05:53, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linga and Yoni 

message: Sivar is ancient and first king of both Kilrathi and Kzinti, and he is not any god at all, because he is only member of one of many species, which never were older than our Universe.
Sivar Eshrad was performed properly and repatedly on many Kilrathi planets, including Kilrah homeworld itself but nowhere in Bharat placed on our planet Earth called by Kilrathi as Nak’tara. When and where you saw Sivar Eshrad or something alike in Rameshwaram, Amarnath, Bhradeeshwar, Periya? Nowhere. Thus without Sivar Eshrad any support for Kilrathi ancestor Lord Sivar in India is pointless. Additionally, Bharati can have in future serious political and security problems with our Terran Confederation since year 2416 in future. Supporting of Kilrathi ancestor - Lord Sivar by some Terrans, for example Bharati when Terran Confederation will be at war with Kilrathi will be treated and judged severely as grave treason of state punishable very seriously by sending traitors into worst battles against Kilrathi.
Here are shown the lord Sivar and his things related to himself, how they are bravely and fiercely supported on Kilrah, compared with his very weak support on Terran country Bharat. Note that lord Sivar on Earth is much more softened in comparison to his real appearance properly preserved on Kilrah and Nargrast:
Lord Sivar, destroyer of worlds depicted very mightily and powerfully as he REALLY looks by his brave Kilrathi followers: http://www.wcnews.com/newshots/full/wcart6a.jpg
Lord Sivar, destroyer of worlds depicted very softly and filigranous as he really never ever looked by his mild Terran followers: http://www.balagokulam.org/images/la-siva.jpg
Prince Thrakhath nar Kiranka, the hard fang of Sivar, destroyer of worlds: http://www.wcnews.com/articles/mythicarchiving/mythicarchiving40t.jpg
Prince Siddhartha Gautama, the soft tooth of Sivar, destroyer of worlds: http://1.1.1.1/bmi/www.crystalinks.com/buddhablue2.jpg
Massive fortress of Sivar in Kilrah Imperial Space, planet H’rekkah: http://wedge009.net/wc/wcp/introduction.jpg
Filigran palace of Sivar outside Kilrah Imperial Space, planet Nak'tara (Earth): http://www.srikumar.com/tdtemplecochin/udyaneswara.jpg 91.94.163.42 (talk) 21:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sivar 

message: The section , " Relationship to Vishnu" says,
The quote would bring the conclusion of supremacy of Shiva over lord Vishnu.The exact reason for Shiva to incarnate in this form is not at all clear. Now coming to main point, does omission of quote cause "the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate"? In fact I can add material from the above sources and let the facts speak for themselves. But the article will be no longer on Shiva, it will sound like a "Shiva Vs Vishnu" article.I am deleting.
Powerprowess (talk) 04:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not surprising that Shaiva and Vaishnava literatures try to project Shiva, and Vishnu as the supreme deity respectively. We need to present an appropriately brief summary of these views; not delete the view an editor find objectionable. Please avoid such deletions in the future, and discuss them calmly and intelligibly here instead. Abecedare (talk) 05:52, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with Abecedare. The omission of Sharabha makes the article less informative. I think, only the "Difference in viewpoints between the two sects is apparent" fact is illustrated and the sentence can be toned down a bit by replacing "chastise" by a milder word. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  05:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Relationship to Vishnu

message: Without,
"In the Hari Vanśa, Vishńu compels Shiva to fly, after taking him by the throat and nearly strangling him. The blueness of Shiva's neck arose from this throttling, and not, as elsewhere described, from his drinking the poison produced at the churning of the ocean" the reason behind formation of blue throat of Shiva would be incomplete.I am re-adding this.......
Powerprowess (talk) 04:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The tale is relatively unknown, the other explanation is popular and retold in scriptures. Thus, this one can be abridged a bit. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  05:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  (sorry for the ec Redtigerxyz) I have copyedited and referenced the tale. I assume it is satisfactory now. Abecedare (talk) 05:45, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Incompleteness

message: I am creating a new section because the interpretation of Linga on this page (on Linga too) is an eternal problem, inviting many anon "defenders of Hindu faith". The interpretation of the linga as the phallus is disputed, but a well-known one, thus should be noted. Another interpretation is the Linga is an infinite pillar of fire or stambha as noted. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  05:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed! I don't understand why editors try to project a simplistic viewpoint in terms of "linga = phallus is eother right or wrong", instead of honestly conveying that their are differing views both in scriptural literature as well as in modern day readings. Abecedare (talk) 05:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Accepted! I dont understand why editors do not agree to the fact that Linga=Phallus is also a view. The section Linga need the view of Phallus too.---Editorcade (talk) 05:47, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes another view of linga as phallus is valid, but often it is projected as linga = "phallus and phallus only". phallus is viewed as symbol of fertility and there is nothing bad / wrong with this view, but matters dont stop there, the so called scholars like Wendy Doniger, Paul Courtright apply freudian psychoanalysis and come up with amazing "distortions" and for a sample of this refer to the additions I removed, which clearly comes under WP:Profanity. --Nvineeth (talk) 08:53, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Linga]] 

message: The identification of vedic Rudra with later Shiva is not all valid. Both are terrible gods and destroying god. But rudra is also a God of healing in vedas. His healing and beneficent powers would then have been founded partly on the fertilizing and purifying action of the thunderstorm, and partly on the negative action of sparing those whom be might slay. It is not valid to identify Shiva with older Rudra. The name is used as an epithet for puranic Shiva. The Puranic Rudra might be differing from vedic Rudra. The romoval of the identification of vdic Rudra with Shiva would make the article less informative. But it might be the truth.Truth may not be accepted at first. But it would the ultimate atlast.
This god occupies a subordinate position in the RV., being celebrated in only three entire hymns, in part of another, and in one conjointly with Soma. His hand, his arms, and his limbs are mentioned. He has beautiful lips and wears braided hair. His colour is brown; his form is dazzling, for he shines like the radiant sun, like gold. He is arrayed with golden ornaments, and wears a glorious necklace (niská). He drives in a car. His weapons are often referred to: he holds the thunderbolt in his arm, and discharges his lightning shaft from the sky; but he is usually said to be armed with a bow and arrows, which are strong and swift.
Rudra is very often associated with the Maruts (i. 85). He is their father, and is said to have generated them from the shining udder of the cow Prsni.
Shiva's weapon is trident(Trishula). But Rudra's weapon is thunderbolt as Indra.Hence,
The identification of vedic Rudra with later Shiva should be discarded.--59.97.80.30 (talk) 08:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed! vedic Rudra cannot be Shiva. Let see what other editors say for this. You must have an account. Dont comment unlogged.--Powerprowess (talk) 09:12, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not agreed. The rationale given here amounts to WP:original research and contradicts WP:reliable sources given in the article. If and only if reliable sources are available, then the theory can be included. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  05:47, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

text:  see discussion above at Relationship to Vishnu. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  05:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shiva identification 

message: *http://www.exoticindia.com/article/sati_and_shiva/
*http://www.exoticindia.com/acrobat/sati_and_shiva.pdf
Can we add it to references?
:Austerlitz -- 88.75.91.59 (talk) 14:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  This story 

message: There appears to be lot of unsupported assertions in this section.
Can someone who is knowledgeable clean it up?
Raj2004 (talk) 23:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Pashupati seal Vs Rishabha Vs Bull Seal 

message: sometimes known as the Pacific Cat's Eye, is a shell said to be named after the god Shiva however i cannot find any reliable online source to verify this. Help - anyone?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.116.37 (talk) 15:12, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  shiva shell 

message: I don't understand what is below the Natarajar Shiva.
Is it a baby or something?  —Preceding [Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by 173.74.158.177 (talk) 21:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is the demon (or dwarf) of ignorance, Apasmara. 70.177.94.136 (talk) 09:28, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Below 

message: Shiva statue at Cern -European Center for Research in Particle Physics in Geneva
This article could be vastly improved by also including the esoteric Shiva concept beyond the literal .I have reproduced here some content from the physicist Fritjof Capras site . 
Intothefire (talk) 07:15, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  This interpretation will be an WP:UNDUE here, though it would a good addition to Nataraja.--Redtigerxyz  Talk  09:15, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [http://www.fritjofcapra.net/shiva.html Shiva's Cosmic Dance at CERN] 

message: So, is the bit in the intro in which Shiva is described as "she" supposed to be a troll, or a statement on gender fluidity, or what?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.235.87 (talk) 23:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender 

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thread_title:  File:Neelakanta.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion 

message: We All know about Lord shiva .Shiva has many Rups such as Mahadev,sambhu,shankar,tripurari etc....tese  all have own behave and nature .All gods which you know in the World all are belong to God Shiva .It means God shiv is the superb in the world .And also he is  Master "Guru" out of the various religious books and started realizing the truth about the need of master "Guru" in life. 
The SSP family is an initative taken by Shri Harinadranada to spread the light of Shiv Shisyata in universe so that every individual can be benifited to it.For more information (www.shivshishyapariwar.org)and (https://www.facebook.com/groups/globalssp).Here you can find that lord shiva has one role Which is known as "PRECEPTOR" means "GURU" .In ancient we can heard by ours grantha "SAMBHAWAY GURUWAY NAMAH" that means shiv is preceptor .and also many more Examples in our grantha .But Point is that if lord shiva is Preceptor of many ancient people in the world then why you can not accept his shishyta .So it is happen When a Great man born on Earth "SAHAB Sri Harindranand jee"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.244.27.45 (talk) 12:21, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shiv is preceptor of All humans.Shiv Guru Hai (Shiv shishya pariwar) 

message: Please add the information from scholar Gavin Flood's Shiva chapter from The Blackwell Companion to Hinduism, starting from page 200.  Thigle (talk) 20:59, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please add this information 

message: I am more or less completely ignorant of this subject, so I don't feel competent to edit the article, but the sentences:
"God Shiva is a yogi who has notice of everything that happens in the world and is the main aspect of life. Yet one with great power lives a life of a sage at Mount Kailash."  are confusing to me.
Can someone edit, or, if you are shy aobut doing so clarify the explanation here in the discussion and I will attempt to edit.  Thanks.?
--Mark Asread (talk) 05:33, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening Paragraph Needs Work for Clarity 

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thread_title:  File:Kashi.jpg Nominated for Deletion 

message: The photograph of shiva tagged as statue of shiva at sanga karve is actually the statue of shiva at gurgaon-delhi border. It is wrongly tagged as one in nepal. Nepal statue is the tallest statue of shiva. Both look very similar. This needs to be changed. 
Adityasaxena.corp (talk) 02:03, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong image, 

message: big brother.....whats up??? body building all the time.////give me some muscle ya....  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.99.151 (talk) 18:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  ... 

message: Something should be added under Attributes about Shiva's special earrings. Please read http://www.hindu-blog.com/2010/11/symbolism-of-earrings-or-kundalas-of.html  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjvanb (talk • contribs) 07:10, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earrings 

message: Shiva is not consort of Adi Shakti. Complete Material Incarnations of Adi Parashakti i.e. Durga, Parvati, Sati are consorts of Shiva. However Adi shakti is energy beyond all universes hence equivalent as Ultimate GOD or Param Brahman  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.164.49.138 (talk) 12:01, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cosorts of Lord Shiva 

message: Can someone explain why the speculation on the name Shiva's Tamil origin was dropped from the etymology section? Lack of references?
Mr.Falcon (talk) 01:48, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shiva Etymology Question 

message: Know very little about this subject not sure how to add the topic of a the new article Ashok Sundari to this article.--Traveler100 (talk) 16:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ashok Sundari]] 

message: How about merging Nilkanth into this article? I think the article is a WP:PERMASTUB and has no hope of expanding. Any opinions? If yes please do post here. Thanks! Forgot to put name (talk) 14:15, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: User:24.215.203.133 has removed five times 
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the names of Durga and Kali as consorts of Shiva. Can anybody provide a source? Joshua Jonathan (talk) 19:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sati and Parvati are the primary consorts. Other goddesses are considered manifestations of Parvati and in this context, consorts of Shiva. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  06:02, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: But shouldn't they somehow be mentioned? It's probably clear for a Hindu how this pantheon works, but not for an outsider. A section on his consorts might be a good idea. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 06:28, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed that Shakti is being mentioned in the to-do list. Very interesting links; it's beginning to dawn on me how vast a topic Hinduism is - and that only a few aspects are being popularized in the west. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 09:29, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a very interesting question. The editor Joshua Jonathan rightly points out that the various forms can be confusing. Redtigerxyz-ji has correctly pointed out that some of these feminine forms are more widely-known and worshipped than others, and so some care needs to be taken in deciding which of them to discuss. Śiva is worshipped in many aspects, and some of these forms have corresponding feminine counterparts, which are personifications of Śiva's energy or capacity (Śakti). For example, when worshipped as Bhairava, his consort is called Bhairavī, who has her own special aspects. A citation for Bhairava/ Bhairavī can be found in Stutley, The Illustrated Dictionary of Hindu Iconography, 2003, pp. 19-20. Stutley's book is already accepted as a WP:RS in the main article. A citation for Durgā as a "śakti" of Śiva can be found in Stutley 2003, p. 41, however the same citation also points out that Durgā is also greatly respected among Vaiṣṇavas. A citation for Kālī as a "śakti" of Śiva can be found in Stutley 2003, p. 63, however the same citation also points out that this is only one of the ways that Kālī is understood. Calling these feminine forms of the divine "consorts" is one way to think of them, but I prefer the term "śakti". Many Hindus believe that there is only one Mother, and she takes infinite forms, just as does Śiva. The article on Shaktism may be helpful to identify major forms, some of which are more closely connected with Śiva than others. Buddhipriya (talk) 02:03, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The following edit introduces material into the article that is primarily a discussion of what the concept of shakti involves, citing some examples of specific forms: . I think some of this material is not entirely appropriate here. If you work backward from the shakti tradition to list many forms, theoretically all of these could be listed as consorts of Shiva. But that is not the focus of this article, which is on how Shiva is most commonly understood. The reference to tantric issues also is not worded well and would be better if phrased something like "In tantric tradition, Shiva is considered... etc." Buddhipriya (talk) 02:48, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shiva's consorts 

message: Shiva (pron.: /ˈʃɪvə/; Sanskrit: शिव Śhiva; Tamil: சிவன் sivan , meaning "auspicious one")
Is Śhiva rather than Śiva correct?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.83.58.48 (talk) 22:22, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orthography/transliteration 

message: It is mentioned as three headed Shiv but it should have been Dattatreya an incarnation of of Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva(left)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jitendra.paliye (talk • contribs) 19:28, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  RELATED TO PICTURE OF A SCULPTURE 

message: Perhaps someone knowledgeable who has a good secondary source could describe the Sadasiva aspect of Shiva?
Here is a brief description quoted from an external site:
 Ringbang (talk) 20:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sadasiva 

message: The section "Names of Shiva" has previously been removed; what are the arguments pro and contra? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:05, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names of Shiva 

message: Should we add popular culture section here as there had been many TV serials depicting Shiva and mythology. Recently books depicting Shiva as a fictional character by Amish Tripathi became best sellers. Should we mention this here?--Nizil (talk) 10:04, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If you write such section, where will it end? Shiva is seen in so many art forms. There are so many films and TV shows. Not to forget all the minor mentions like heroines going and praying in a Shiv temple. Would you mention "Jai Jai Shiv Shankar, Kaata Lage Na Kankad" also? And books would be so many. Also, many people consider this whole stuff as fictional. For them Tripathi's version is just another take. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:44, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  popular culture section 

message: Is this subsection properly titled? Perhaps it should be "Pagan religions" or something like that. --regentspark (comment) 14:15, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree - the subsection is not properly titled -- but "Pagan religions" - is something different and also not fits properly, - perhaps -  Shiva in Central Asia" . Jethwarp (talk) 16:47, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worship? 

message: I moved the list of temples out of here and into a List of Shiva temples in India article. Figure that makes more sense (and less clutter)! --regentspark (comment) 21:48, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temples 

message: Over a month ago, this edit messed up the Sources section, and it hasnt been fixed yet. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:31, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources mess