Wikipedia talk:Japanese Wikipedians' notice board

message: Okay.  I think it is time for a vote/decision.  How do we resolve this?  Revmachine has his opinion, Taku, Gk, and I have ours-- we have each made our points, presented evidence (encyclopedias on the one side, newspapers on the other). I think we need to set this out and go with it.  Do we vote?  (huzzah for LN GN!!!) Davejenk1ns 02:31, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I are having a poll right now :) Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_for_Japan-related_articles/Naming_order. I don't know why people started this debate here not there. -- Taku 02:56, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)
Taku is correct in pointing out that there is already a poll going on at  Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_for_Japan-related_articles/Naming_order, which is where I think that the poll should stay. Before that poll was set up, and even after the poll had been started, there have been debates on the subject of Japanese name order for Wikipedia articles that have also occured here, on the  Talk page for the Naming_order subpage, on the  Talk page for Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles) article, on various User and User Talk pages, in the Talk pages on a number of Japanese-related subjects, and even under the Request for Deletion on a particular article.
I am glad this debate is going on because it has helped me become clearing on my own opinions on the subject, and actually made me change my mind. This debate has already been going on for awhile, and for something so important, I think that it should continue for awhile longer. Until things are settled, it is probably fine to continue to follow the suggestion at Wikipedia:Manual of Style for Japan-related articles - "use the form of a person's name that is most widely known and used by English speakers". gK ¿? 04:59, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Time for a vote and a decision

message: ::In my humble opinion, I think that all Japanese names SHOULD follow the English naming conventions, with redirects from the Japanese order, and little boxes to the side explaining (with kanji) the person's surname, given name, and in which order it most often appears. Inconsistency isn't great, and either way is going to create some inconsistencies with what is most often read. At least if we keep it consistent, with a little frame explaining what is most common, with redirects, everyone will get to the information, and get a nice little explanation of Japanese naming conventions, and what the most common usage is.
::In cases where the most common usage is in doubt, Googlewar is your friend... Akira Kurosawa: 672,000. Kurosawa Akira: 192,000. That way people can be informed as to the most easily recognizable use, as well as which name is which. It'd be a good compromise that would stick to the official wikipedia policies, as well as providing the information on Japanese naming that really is integral to understanding Japanese names.
--Joshua Maciel 00:46, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: There's no ideal solution

message: I just discovered Template:Stubs. Would it be useful to create a template:Japanese-stub and also a :Category:Japanese stub to help keep track of, and better organize, those Japanese articles that need work? See also: Wikipedia:Stub categories
:Actually these stubs have been created, but the names were slightly different from what I was looking for. There is Template:Japan-stub and :Category:Japan-related stubs.
Also: I found that there are already some Japanese related articles in :Category:Historical_stubs, including Prince Hisaaki. There are also Japanese biographies listed at :Category:People stubs, such as Abe Nobuyuki. There are a few Japanese articles in :Category:Geography stubs, including Osa, Okayama. I found a single Japanese related article under :Category:Literature stubs: Takizawa Bakin. gK 23:53, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Would we like to gather these separated stubs under :Category:Japan-related stubs with ?--Aphaea 02:17, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's leave the other stubs, but also add the . It's probably not the "wiki-way" to have two stubs, but maybe it will attract a few people who are not primarily interested in Japanese topics to edit a few of the articles. gK 03:24, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Please note that  is now just a REDIRECT.  See Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting and its Stub types list. --AlastairIrvine (talk) 05:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese Stubs & Categories

message: There are two categories that seem closely related, 
# :Category:Japanese authors and
# :Category:Japanese writers.
Should we merge these, or should we insert text to help authors of articles choose which one to place an article in?
:If we want to match what has been done with other language/nationality categories, they should are all be under :Category:Japanese writers. Under that should be the subcategories :Category:Japanese poets and :Category:Japanese novelists. There could also be a :Category:Japanese dramatists and playwrights to cover Noh, Kabuki, etc. Then all those List of Japanese authors can be hidden in a new :Category:Lists of Japanese authors. To do all of that, however, would be lots of work. It would be much easier to just merge everything into :Category:Japanese authors. [Also: Unless someone can think of someone to add to it, the :Category:Japanese historians should probably be deleted since it is currently empty.] gK 12:07, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I am for to merge them. --Aphaea 02:21, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I agree we should merge them, but under which category? The easier choice (authors) or the way most of the other Wikipedia categories are structured (writers), which will require much more editing? gK 03:24, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer the latter; unity helps us greatly to collaborate each others IMO. But I don't want to make a dicision too rushly. If necessary, we will have a vote. Or we would wait to make a general concensus. --Aphaea 06:28, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm nominating Japanese authors for deletion. Oliver Chettle 08:30, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Authors and Writers

message: I was just looking at this category and it is a real mess. For example:
:Category:Japanese sportspeople --> :Category:Japanese people
:Category:Japanese athletes --> :Category:Japanese people by occupation --> :Category:Japanese people
Both :Category:Japanese sportspeople and :Category:Japanese athletes have a bunch of subcategories, so it will be a real mess untangling them. For example, the both have :Category:Japanese baseball players, but only the first one has :Category:Olympic swimmers of Japan (which only has one person in it).
Somewhere in the Wikipedia, or maybe it was Media-Wiki I saw a tool that allowed one to show a tree of linkages for a particular category, but now I can't find it. It would really help straiten things out. ;-) gK ¿? 11:42, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: more under [[:Category:Japanese people]]

message: Just out of curiosity, I tried to go through the list of past feature articles, and find any existing Feature Articles that had some relation to Japan. The bold titles were featured on the main page. Some else should probably also take a look at the list because it is l-o-n-g and I may have missed something (I almost missed the  Go article. Also, I didn't look though the archives to see if there were any Japan-related articles that didn't make it. (see also :Category:Wikipedia featured articles). gK ¿? 13:30, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Japan-related [[Wikipedia:Featured articles | Feature Articles]]

message: Please vote on a couple of prefecture article format issues at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Japanese_prefectures#Vote on picture placement and symbol/map placement in infobox. -- Rick Block 02:18, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vote on prefecture article format issues 

message: I noticed today that the article for Jpop band Orange Range was a stub, so I went to add to it, translating from the Japanese Wikipedia. Essentially, I added little more than a list of the band members and their albums, but it being a band, I'm not really sure what else there is to say. 
Anyway, getting to the point. The article seemed to indicate that the band was accused of plagiarism in an interview a few years back. I may be reading/translating this wrong, of course, but there's a list of bands and songs at the bottom of the Japanese article that seems to be a list of which Orange Range songs are copied (plagiarized) from which other songs. I went and read the interview, and there really doesn't seem to be anything criminal or scandalous in it. The closest it comes to accusing the band of plagiarism is a section where the guitarist talks about imitating (drawing from) many styles of music.
Could someone look at this, and help me figure out what the story is, whether or not they're being accused of plagiarism, whether or not it's a big deal, etc. Thanks. LordAmeth 22:59, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  I think some of the plagarism accusations are plain silly.  However, it seems that there definetely were some issues.  Atsi Otani 05:52, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: One the subject of Orange Range and plagiarism, feel free to check this flash movie which pretty-much outlines the issue with that. It's Japanese, but I'm sure you can figure out what the point of it is. It basically plays Orange Range clips followed by songs by other artists from which Orange Range seems to have lifted the melody, rhythm, etc.
--Joshua Maciel 00:53, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  ORANGE RANGE 

message: The anon IP  has recently added a bunch of links to various Japanese-related articles. I've looked at several of them and although they are not for a commercial website, most of the linked webpages seem to be of fairly low usefulness and not necessarily that closely related to the article that it was linked from (for example, a link an essay of dining al fresco in Japan added to the Cuisine of Japan article. Could someone else please take a look and offer a second opinion before I go and delete all of this anon editor's recent additions. BlankVerse ∅ 05:17, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed some of the obvious ones.  Frankly, any addition by an anonymous IP address doesn't require a debate (IMHO). Davejenk1ns 05:53, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I often see good article edits by anons, but the percentage of garbage that gets added to the External link sections by anons is very high. There's one person who keeps adding the same very poor personal name definition website to ALL of the Wikipedia articles on names, including where the link definately doesn't belong. And then the amount of true commercial link spam seems on the increase lately as well. I was just wondering if I was overreacting to this group of links. BlankVerse ∅  08:51, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  link spam? 

message: Is there anyone interested in helping me come up with a standard for the Sumo wrestler's individual pages? I am really interested in getting the sumo pages up to date, being an avid fan, and generally thinking the world could use more sumo information.
I want to try to come up with a standardized format of listing height, weight, win-loss records, bouts in makuuchi, etc. to create a standardized format for sumo wrestlers on wikipedia for years to come. Since there are plenty of English language sources for sumo information (at least the basics) you wouldn't necessarily need to be able to speak any Japanese, and just help me input the blasted things.
Preferrably someone who has a clue as to how to make a good-looking info box, so that we can get started on standardizing the list of active sumo wrestlers page individuals, and possibly tidying up that main page to give a little more information (specifically the kanji for their names).
Since sumo is on TV in Japan bilingually (at least for makuuchi bouts), it would be nice to have easy resources for English speakers in Japan to be able to decipher the slew of kanji that fly across the screen, as it makes sumo viewing infinitely more enjoyable. Anyway, I hope that someone else shares my enthusiasm to expand a part of the Japan-related info on wikipedia.
-Joshua Maciel 01:00, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sumo! 

message: Hello,
I just wanted to let you know about a list of Japan-related items on Votes for Deletion.  It's part of WikiProject Deletion sorting, and you can find it here.  I hope you can use it to track and contribute to Japan-related deletion debates.  If you find the list useful, please also help keep it up to date.
By the way, new deletion sorters are welcome and needed.  Join us!
Cheers,
-- Visviva 03:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion list 

message: I just completed a barebones version of an article on the Five elements (Japanese). I felt it needed doing, and I was quite curious/excited to see what I would learn in research. However, this topic has become quite new-agey, and inextricably tied into (1) new age Eastern Medicine and the like, (2) fanciful, mystical notions of the powers and abilities of ninja, and (3) fictional, fantasy concepts of eastern magic, particularly in anime and comicbooks. I found it quite difficult to find any reliable sources on the true historical/cultural origins and meanings of the elements. Thus, I think the article could use some help overall. In addition, there are a few specific items I wanted to add but could not find...
:*I know that, much like the Chinese elements, each Japanese element is associated with a direction, a color, and a gazillion other things; I could not, however, find reference to which element is associated with which thing. Also, I was particularly interested in the Japanese elemental associations of the Phoenix (Bird), Tortoise, Dragon, and Tiger. I am not positive which element belongs to which creature, what the names of the creatures are (I think the Phoenix is called Suzaru or Sezaru?), and what the myth/legend/story is behind these creatures, if any.
:* I was unable to find proper categories to add this article to. Admittedly, I didn't search too deeply, but none of the categories of Five elements (Chinese) have parent categories with Japanese-appropriate sub-categories. You follow that? Basically, while the concepts of the Japanese elements are strongly derived from Chinese philosophy, I don't think they belong in Chinese categories. If anyone knows of the proper categories to place this in, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks for any help you can offer. I hope that with a team effort, we can push past all the acupuncture-newage-ninja-mysticmagic nonsense and produce an article that details the true religious/spiritual historical/cultural origins and meanings of the Japanese five elements. LordAmeth 01:37, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Five Elements 

message: I just completed a barebones version of an article on the Five elements (Japanese). I felt it needed doing, and I was quite curious/excited to see what I would learn in research. However, this topic has become quite new-agey, and inextricably tied into (1) new age Eastern Medicine and the like, (2) fanciful, mystical notions of the powers and abilities of ninja, and (3) fictional, fantasy concepts of eastern magic, particularly in anime and comicbooks. I found it quite difficult to find any reliable sources on the true historical/cultural origins and meanings of the elements. Thus, I think the article could use some help overall. In addition, there are a few specific items I wanted to add but could not find...
:*I know that, much like the Chinese elements, each Japanese element is associated with a direction, a color, and a gazillion other things; I could not, however, find reference to which element is associated with which thing. Also, I was particularly interested in the Japanese elemental associations of the Phoenix (Bird), Tortoise, Dragon, and Tiger. I am not positive which element belongs to which creature, what the names of the creatures are (I think the Phoenix is called Suzaru or Sezaru?), and what the myth/legend/story is behind these creatures, if any.
::You might be thinking of suzaku (:ja:朱雀). Fg2 02:05, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
:* I was unable to find proper categories to add this article to. Admittedly, I didn't search too deeply, but none of the categories of Five elements (Chinese) have parent categories with Japanese-appropriate sub-categories. You follow that? Basically, while the concepts of the Japanese elements are strongly derived from Chinese philosophy, I don't think they belong in Chinese categories. If anyone knows of the proper categories to place this in, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks for any help you can offer. I hope that with a team effort, we can push past all the acupuncture-newage-ninja-mysticmagic nonsense and produce an article that details the true religious/spiritual historical/cultural origins and meanings of the Japanese five elements. LordAmeth 01:39, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Five Elements 

message: Some time ago, I created an article on the Taika Reforms. User:Arrigo has decided recently to move them to Taika Reform, and now to Taika Era Reform. I have continuously changed them back, and attempted to explain my logic to him. Now, I realize that changing them back doesn't make me any better (less unilateral or whatever) than him, but I am hoping that I can get some feedback here as to what the title of the article should be, and how to block people from continually changing things even after repeated explanations. Do I get any kind of special authority over the article being that I wrote it?
-I don't have enough sources to say for sure what the general consensus is among academia as to the name of the Reforms. Sir George Sansom calls them the 'Taikwa Reforms', using a 'kwa' sound that is not found in the standard romanization system. In any case, I have not seen them referred to as the Taika Era Reforms anywhere - that would be like calling the Taisho Democracy "Taisho Era Democracy" or the Meiji Constitution "Meiji Era Constitution". Just seems silly and unnecessary to me.
-As for Reforms vs Reform, Arrigo argues that WP policy states that article titles should be in the singular. Since the Taika Reforms were a set of reforms, involving multiple articles and multiple changes to the socio-political structure, I think the plural Reforms applies better. Though, again, I don't have many sources, they all use the plural. And I just think that his blanket assumption that all things should be singular ignores obvious examples like the United States of America and the Bill of Rights (not the United State and Bill of Right) - if the event is called the Taika Reforms, call it the Taika Reforms. I understand it's a bit tough, since there's no plural in Japanese, and so we don't know what connotation is intended, but I think a little common sense should be applied, not just automatic obedience to blanket WP policies.
So, anyone who would like to offer their opinion, I appreciate your input. Even if you disagree with me, I hope a consensus (or at least some informed discussion) can be reached, so this edit war between me and Arrigo can stop. Thanks. LordAmeth 01:49, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I favor "Taika reforms." No "kwa," no "-era" and one "s." Fg2 07:09, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
This sort of article-specific discussion should be presented at Talk:Taika Reform. The discussion's influence will be nil here. 217.140.193.123 17:17, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree with everyone here ... added my comments on the talk page for Taika Reform. CES 18:08, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taika Reforms