Talk:Peter Schönemann

message: Several comments in the article are POV ("...fallacies in the work of Arthur Jensen"; "Using his exceptional knowledge...") suggesting that the creator and/or contributors are very biased. It reads like an advertisement for Peter Schonemann. At the very least it needs to be toned down by an unbiased editor, with citations and fuller explanations provided for such statements. Weasel words and peacock words need to be removed. I also question the notability of Peter Schonemann, but I will wait to see whether notability is established more clearly before adding a notability template. Ward3001 04:22, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You misperceive the intention of other editors challenging your edits. First of all, it is not true that "...the only objection to this page is that all references are from “peer reviewed” sources." Your edits have been challenged in other ways, including using Schonemann's own publications to establish that he is a "foremost expert." That is a decision to be made by others besides Schonemann.  Secondly, publication in peer-reviewed journals is not the gold standard for notability. Thousands of academics publish in peer reviewed journals; most of them are not notable outside their particular narrow area of expertise. Please see Wikipedia's standards for notability of academics. Thirdly, you have a propensity for making sweeping generalizations about Schonemann conclusively showing or proving a fact, based largely (although not completely) on Schonemann's own works. If you know anything about science, then you know that it takes a wide base of acceptance before any scientific study is considered a "fact" or "proven".  And finally (and I have hesitated to say this until now but your behavior begs the conclusion), if you yourself are Schonemann (and I strongly suspect you are), please understand Wikipedia's standards for biographies and notability. Autobiographies generally are frowned upon (see WP:AB for details). Let others establish your notability. If you are indeed notable, it should not be a problem for others besides you to add to the article in ways that would establish notability. If that does not happen, then perhaps you should accept that Schonemann may not be as notable as you have imagined him to be. Ward3001 17:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

text: This is what you wrote: "...is considered to be a foremost expert on Factor Analysis." And the reference cited is: Schonemann, P. H. (1983). Do IQ tests really measure intelligence? Commentary, The Behavioral and Brain Sciences, 6, 311-315 (p. 40). The facts speak for themselves. Remember, every edit to Wikipedia is preserved forever. You can't deny what you wrote.Ward3001 15:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ward, his claim is that, in the book cited, Schonemann's text is followed by commentary by Arthur Jensen, who describes Schonemann a foremost expert on factor analysis. If this is true, I can't think of a better source, as Arthur Jensen is probably the single most prominent proponent of g and opposes many of Schonemann's arguments. There was no attempt at deception regarding his prior edits, as your reminder that Wikipedia preserves edit logs seems to imply. Please try to assume good faith. This was merely a misunderstanding, and my removal of the comment was a mistake. -- Schaefer (talk) 03:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

text: It is your opinion that g does not exits. You may be right; you may be wrong. There are experts who disagree with you. Wikipedia has a neutral point of view policy, and presenting only one opinion when there is significant disagreement is a violation of that policy.Ward3001 15:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I will not push this point, but, again, I have read some of your earlier comments on the Talk page (which you later reverted). Ward3001 15:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Can you clarify whether you are Charles669? If so, it would be helpful if you would remain logged in so that people can see which edits are yours and so people can call you something other than 70.68.179.142. -- Schaefer (talk) 04:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Your claim for notability is based largely on publication in peer reviewed journals. That is not sufficient for notability for academics. Schonemann is one of many thousands who have done that. The vast majority are not notable. Ward3001 15:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality

message: The fact that "g' does not exist" is not my opinion; it was refuted in the 1920-30s by numerous scholars including Louis Thurstone, and then later in the 40s and 50s by lee Cronbach, and Louis Guttman. Jensen has substituted the PC1 for g, but still calls it "g". As long as the matrix is positive (has positive elements throughout), such a PC1 always exists, is unique and always can be scaled to be positive (Perron's theorem). Regardless of this, I have not stated explicitly that g' does not exist; only that a number of world renowned scholars have shown g' to be false.
How do you think I should go about establishing Notability? Unlike less qualified scholars Peter Schonemann publishes in fully recognized Journals; and holds a record for the most consecutive publications in the journal "Psychometrika" in the span of five years (Psychometrika being the most prestigious of Psychometric journals). Jensen and those arguing for a psychometric g have not published a single article in this journal. 
If by notability you mean media exposure and internet articles, then I am afraid that Peter Schonemann’s work is not common among lay persons (although, you can find lay articles that reference his work). However, popular media and lay articles do not define the quality of scientific contributions. Most of Peter Schonemann’s admirers are Psychometricians and professionals.  I have established his notability by referencing articles from “legitimate” peer reviewed journals in which professionals demonstrate the notability of Schonemann’s work.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.68.179.142 (talk) 09:26, August 23, 2007 (UTC) 
I have now also added references to Robert j. Sternberg and John l. Horn who attest to Peter Schonemann's notability as a scholar. 
--70.68.179.142 23:59, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claims about g and Notability 

message: The neutrality and factual accuracy of this page is not under dispute. All information is fully referenced and legitimate. If there is a dispute I suggest that you write your complaints in the Talk Page, so that the rest of us may know the reason.
--70.68.179.142 03:42, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The neutrality and factual accuracy 

message: The heritability articles criticized by Schonemann are all from after the mid-70s, not before. Whoever keeps writing that his criticisms are from the early 70s is wrong. In fact the majority of his papers that criticized heritability estimates are from the late 80s, 90s. Further, the other scholars who criticize heritability estimates all published their papers after the year 2000. In referrence to work done well after the 70s....
:Sorry, I reverted the edit on the main article before I saw the above remark on the talk page. It would help if you would sign your comments. The articles criticizing heritability have been published since the sixties and well into the 90s, perhaps even later. For some reason, the papers being criticized are almost all from the 60s or 70s. Schönemann criticizes the simple heritability estimation methods used at those times. The much more sophisticated methods used nowadays are not addressed. Of course, this is a well-known debating strategy: set up a straw man and then tear it down. --Crusio 21:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I see your point. I have removed the statement and will only put it back if I find a reference of somebody who wrote this in a verifiable source. That may actually have been done in some of the discussions in which Schonemann participated in Behavioral and Brain Sciences and CPC, but unfortunately those are not available online and these very issues are missing from my collections of these two journals. --Crusio 09:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticized by Schonemann 

message: You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of  Intelligence Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human intelligence and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library at a university with an active research program in these issues (and to another library that is one of the ten largest public library systems in the United States) and have been researching these issues since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by  suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human intelligence to edit them according to the  Wikipedia standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 16:25, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intelligence Citations Bibliography for Articles Related to Human Intelligence 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080228024743/http://www2.psych.purdue.edu/~phs/pdf/71.pdf to http://www2.psych.purdue.edu/~phs/pdf/71.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified