Talk:Shemp Howard

message: I have a copy of Shemp's original birth certificate, State of New York, #12184. Shemp was born Samuel Hurvitz on March 11, 1895 at 39 Henry Street, Manhattan, NY. He was delivered by midwife Olga Donn of 59 Rivington Street. Don't know where you people get your information from.Brprivate (talk) 03:04, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is what's known on Wikipedia as Original Research WP:OR.  It is not allowed.  There are dozens of Samuel Horwitz's and Samuel Hurvitz's, and the information you provide does not distinguish between them.  Since a wide variety of cited sources state that Shemp Howard was born on a different date and in Brooklyn, you must come up with an *acceptable* and *published* source in order to change this information.  Also, as to your last question, please see WP:CIV and remember that one of the primary guidelines on Wikipedia is to presume good faith. Monkeyzpop (talk) 19:45, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Mr. Brprivate (it would be nice if you registered an account so that you could be addressed directly, but here is fine if you insist):  First, you are, I believe, now in violation of WP:3RR and subject to blocking.  Second, I do not care one little bit what Shemp Howard's birth date or birth name is, insofar as having an ax to grind about which fact is correct.  Your edits, while laudable for the original research behind them, do not conform to WP standards.  The standard is published citation.  There are lesser standards, but the primary standard is "What has been published in a reputable resource?"  The information you provided earlier (date, city, surname, midwife, etc.) did not IN ITSELF distinguish between Samuel Horwitz (as his family name was spelled in several census records and in the autobiography of his brother) and the several other Samuel Horwitz's and Samuel Hurvitz's born in the state of New York at about the same time.  Therefore, BASED ON THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED EARLIER, it cannot be used as prima facie evidence that it is THE Samuel Horwitz/Hurvitz discussed in this article.  Subsequent evidence you provided suggests that it is, but still leaves two major obstacles:  it is Original Research insofar as it contradicts PUBLISHED evidence in reliable sources (one must consider the subject's own brother's autobiography to be fairly reliable about the family's last name, for example), and the fact that the spelling "Hurvitz" contradicts MANY other family records both published and unpublished.  Until these obstacles are overcome, we cannot simply take one unpublished document, originally researched, and use it to contradict a comparative mountain of published and cited material, EVEN IF THAT MATERIAL IS "HEARSAY."  That's not the way Wikipedia works.  There is a reasonable means of getting the information you wish published on WP to be included, but you have not achieved that yet.  If you do, WP editors such as myself will champion your edits.  Until then, we are forced to abide by WP guidelines (one of which, I remind you again, is to presume good faith). Monkeyzpop (talk) 01:50, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

text: I realize it can be frustrating to have first-hand knowledge or evidence of something and not be able to use it in Wikipedia.  I have found myself in precisely the same situation on occasion.  But that is how Wikipedia operates, and as a general rule, there is nothing to be gained by arguing that you don't like the rules of the particular game you want to play.  We all either abide by those rules or don't play here.  If it is of any help, here are some of the specific rules of this venue:  "Wikipedia articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources....Material based purely on primary sources should be avoided. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors." (WP:RS).  "If you discover something new, Wikipedia is not the place to premiere such a discovery." (WP:OR)  "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true." (WP:V)  I suggest you read some of the linked articles in full, as they will elaborate usefully on these points.  But in any event, these are the rules of the game here, and must be adhered to or risk deletion or re-writing by other editors.  Thanks. Monkeyzpop (talk) 07:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Shemp's Actual Date of Birth, Location of Birth, Original Surname

message: Shemp's birthdate is ACTUALLY March 17th.  The date you show is from record of the death certificate which was in error.  Shemp was born on Saint Patrick's day.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fugcheese (talk • contribs) 17:38, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
*Support. Use his proper name. – AxSkov (☏) 06:59, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: If we're going to call him by his real first name why not call him by his real last name?144.126.161.43 15:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: Quote "Shemp used his somewhat homely appearance for comic effect, often mugging grotesquely or allowing his hair to fall in disarray. He even played along with a publicity stunt that named him 'he Ugliest Man in Hollywood."
:It seems to me that many of his Stooges roles were as the romantic figure.  If a Stooge was involved with a woman, it was usually Shemp.  Maybe it's because of his independent career in Hollywood.  Two different worlds, where the ugliest man in one is the dream-boy in the other?WHPratt (talk) 17:57, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Evereything is Relative

message: :Image:Shempport.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Shempport.jpeg

message: The image :Image:Crimin.jpeg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Crimin.jpeg

message: Anyone object to changing it to Barney Fag instead of Frank?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.54.4 (talk) 03:44, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Objection 

message: Has anyone ever seen or heard of a hand drawn picture of an ambulance or firetruck drawn and signed and initialed by shemp. I have not been able to find anything. It was said that it may have been a concept vehicle for one of the movies. please if anyone knows let me know.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayapple32 123 (talk • contribs) 02:55, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  shemp ambulance or firetruck 

message: The article states that he had a son, Morton; and a few lines underneath it it states that his biography was writen by his "daughter and son-in-law". Was it a son or a daughter? If this means daughter-in-law and son-in-law, to whom was the son-in-law married?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.55.59.207 (talk) 03:16, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Son or daughter?  

message: "Curly succeumed to the series on January 18, 1952 at 48"
wtf?71.164.103.93 (talk) 21:46, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  succeumed? 

message: He was in the service during World War One. Worth a mention?2A00:23C7:E287:1901:1899:599E:6842:863 (talk) 12:40, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Military Service

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thread_title:  External links modified