Talk:Criticism of Microsoft

message: I'd like to remind anyone editing this page about Talk page guidelines.
1.This is not a place for trolling comments
2.Sources must be verifiable. Do not post anything where the sole reference is a forum or non-official blog.
3.Please stay on topic.
4.Be positive (this one is really lacking).
5.Stay objective-no personal points of views.
6.Do not troll.
This is added to the top because no-one seems to be getting it. A better place for this would be the edit notice of the talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 22:40, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

message: This article is very biased. ~Kevin.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.19.191.2 (talk) 07:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It means opinions have been slipped into Wikipedia.  The former is an opinion, the latter is a fact.  An encyclopedia shouldn't have an opinion but should stick to facts instead.Yfrwlf (talk) 15:39, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It may well be "an opinion" (by definition); but since it's an opinion that is verifiably held by a several independent reliable sources (example), the fact of being an opinion certainly does not preclude it from being on Wikipedia.  What should be precluded isn't "opinions" per se, but opinions held only be the adding Wikipedia edititor, rather than opinions held by reliable sources and properly cited to them. -- simxp (talk) 19:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, well I think Nick was just somewhat struck with the seeming contradiction of that sentence, saying Microsoft has historically treated employees well, but then citing that Microsoft hasn't treated some of them well.  The first part sounds like a lie because of it.  I think it should be changed to "While Microsoft has treated most of its employees well, they have received several complaints." or something to that effect.  It's contradictory for the editor to say that Microsoft treats its employees well right before explaining how Microsoft doesn't treat some of its employees well.  Perhaps by saying "historically" they meant "most of the time", but making this more clear will certainly help.Yfrwlf (talk) 16:26, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I worked at Microsoft and it was a real grind...  7 day weeks, sleeping on the floor, being told you couldn't go home until you had fixed a bug in your code -- which only leads to more bugs as you hastily kludge things together.   But on the other hand Microsoft did get voted as one of the best places to work...  great parties good fringe benefits, they would treat us to movies etc.  subsidized gym membership.  But things changed over the years.  the early days they were very generous with $, but as time went on the bean counters took over and we went from being prized skilled creators, to human cattle HR assets, and they began to squeeze us for every dime.  they were too cheap to hire more people and instead worked our team to death, whenever someone left the team they just redistributed the workload; by the end we were on a death march in which each person was expected to do the the equivalent of 3 FT jobs.  and then after we shipped they bragged about the obscene profits that they had made, (the entire cost of development and marketing was recouped in the first two weeks). while handing out very unequal bonuses from a small pot with not very much in total dollars.  If they had just hired some more people it would have made a huge difference to team morale and productivity, but their lame excuse was that they couldn't afford it. yeah I know all about woolly mammoths, but you still gotta have some people to do the work.   So it's a very mixed bag, and a lot of favoritism by mid-level managers ensures that different people have very different experiences.  You would also be appalled to know how much software gets written by student interns who get paid very little and Microsoft ships their code -- which is often terrible considering it's probably the first "real" program they have ever written. Ever wondered why scandisk sucked so much?  it was written by an intern.  The strange thing is that the more money Microsoft made the less generous they became towards their employees.  21:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Treatment of Employees 

message: What about to include some facts from Microsofts 2008 ANNUAL REPORT? Cnet comments it...--Kozuch (talk) 10:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Microsofts 2008 Annual Report 

message: While I appreciate new section, I removed a part with blog sources per WP:RELIABLE. If someone thinks the sources are good enough, try to prove here or find additional ones. Here it is:
Mary Jo Foley: "[I was] blacklisted by Microsoft for writing a story based on an internal memo penned by Mark Lucovsky (now with Google, ironically) that acknowledged 63,000 bugs were still left in Windows 2000 when the product shipped. I was barred from executive interviews at the Windows 2000 launch as a result of my story. My "punishment" lasted for a few years. Certain Windows execs refused to speak to me or meet with me for ages because of that story. I believed, and still believe, that I was just doing my job as a reporter."http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2006/09/20/Mary-Jo-Foley-Exit-Interview.aspx
Peter Wright: "I'm on Microsoft 'influencer' lists, email lists where Microsoft people try to get me to tow the company line and say great things about them and their products because it's perceived that I have an audience. The times that I've deviated from that line though I've found myself well and truly out in the cold. One particular 'evangelist' even went completely silent on me after I pulled out of a speaking engagement due to appendicitis. Nothing was said, but the sentiment was obvious. On this very blog I announced InkuDoku, a Sudoku for Tablet PC. Soon after I did, Microsoft released the one they ship with UMPC for free, and a program manager actually emailed me with an offer of cash if I'd write an article merging my work with theirs, along with an apology for shooting my work in the head – purely accidentally of course."http://web.archive.org/web/20061220010912/http://peterwright.blogspot.com/2006/09/good-bye-microsoft-pete-has-now-left.html
---
:I can't vouch for Mr. Wright, but Mary Jo Foley is definitely a reliable soruce.  Her bio:
Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 20 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.
:Robert Scoble confirms that she "has been covering Microsoft since the early 1980s."
:A Wired interview with her is here.  She apparently first interviewed Bill Gates in 1984.
:MJF is also the author of the recently published "Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft Plans to Stay Relevant in the Post-Gates Era"
:-- Limulus (talk) 06:10, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh and MJF references the interview on her site  a check at archive.org for the URL given shows that it redirects to the one I had.  An old MJF article  says: "Robert McLaws, president and chief software architect with Interscape Technologies, the company behind the LonghornBlogs.com Web site"-- Limulus (talk) 09:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blacklisting of journalists and others 

message: I've never heard of DSE making a point of selling Linux systems. They do sell some discs, but I think the practice is going as they charge a lot for just a disc that can be downloaded freely. They do mark al their own products as Linux 2.x compatible. Aronzak (talk) 12:34, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed DSE - if it's not true, there's not much to discuss. It wasn't referenced anyway. --Nigelj (talk) 14:49, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: Considering the enormous extent of Microsoft products, mainly Windows and Internet Explorer, this article should be much longer. Browsers should be mentioned, at least a link should be added referring to the browser wars. It's not like there hasn't been criticism in the media concerning Microsoft. Of course, the length of this article should reflect the massive criticism expressed towards Microsoft. Also, it seems that 'monopoly' is only mentioned once in the article, much more attention should go towards that aspect of Microsoft. 87.72.122.147 (talk) 12:44, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Reviewers were given a "reviewer's guide" which they had to follow the steps for different features to review them. Any deviation from the "reviewer's guide" and they and their journal would not be given advance copies or any advertising revenue. 194.207.86.26 (talk) 04:45, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article too short 

message: Removed the line "Apple Inc. has always marketed home computers with their own non-Microsoft but proprietary operating system." because grammatically it makes no sense since it does not fit at all with the content of the paragraph.  I'm certain a very lengthy discussion could ensue as to whether or not it's even relevant to the issue (considering Apple's hardware is also proprietary, so like any proprietary electronics they don't have an obligation to run third-party software, but still do so), but I don't think that's relevant here either.  This isn't an Apple vs. Microsoft debate.  Untilzero (talk) 18:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Licensing Agreements 

message: Do you mean overcomplicated?86.156.51.15 (talk) 15:13, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Overcomplexified=

message: * A Wake-Up Call to Microsoft's PR Team,  New york Times, David Pouge,  January 25, 2007: "In 1998, the Los Angeles Times reported that Microsoft, during its antitrust trials, hired PR companies to flood newspapers with fake letters of support, bearing ordinary individuals' names but actually written by Microsoft PR staff." 
* Bribing Bloggers. eWeek  December 27, 2006
* Microsoft Allegedly Bullies and Bribes to Make Office an International Standard, 08.31.07, Michael Calore 
* Free blogger laptops get mixed reaction, St. Petersburg Times, Jan 10, 2007 
* Your Product, Your Customer, Forbes, May 7, 2007 "When Microsoft tried to promote its new Vista operating system, it sent laptops to influential bloggers. They were trying to control the conversation by seeding their version of the story with powerful voices online. It didn't work. Instead, it provoked a firestorm, with some claiming that Microsoft was trying to bribe bloggers." 
* Influential bloggers get free computers, Vista from Microsoft, ITWorld Canada, Jan 4, 2007
Ikip (talk) 23:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Microsoft also vandalized Wikipedia and paid users to edit articles.      —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.78.227.218 (talk) 17:54, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  AH! So that's why this page is marked for deletion. 83.142.1.201 (talk) 15:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Is any of this currently in the article?

message: * should this article be renamed to "Miniscule Sample of the Summary of Criticisms of Microsoft"?
::If you know any notable criticism of Microsoft for which you have references from multiple, independent, reliable sources which is not already represented in the article, feel free to be bold and add it in. -- simxp (talk) 02:09, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternative titles

message: This section is doubled up with a similar section earlier in the article. Don't have time to merge the two right now, so can someone please do it? Ingolfson (talk) 00:31, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's the section in question:
Microsoft has been criticised for its so-called "Windows tax" (sometimes called the "Microsoft tax"). Users who buy a new computer with Windows pre-installed and do not wish to use Windows on that computer can request a refund.  The refund is for the extra price charged for having Windows pre-installed on the computer before purchasing.  The Windows refund process is not always straightforward.http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/the_microsoft_tax_revisitedhttp://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381
Personally, I don't like the second link being from a possible biased source: if this article was originally posted elsewhere, or if a better alternative can be found, that would be ideal. --DanielPharos (talk) 02:27, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's fine.  The "Windows tax"/"Microsoft tax" are already mentioned in the section "Licensing agreements".  DanielPharos - that paragraph which has been removed was (co-incidentally) on the Criticism of Microsoft Windows page before it was moved to this article. TurboForce (talk) 12:57, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I know: User_talk:Meewam#Windows_Tax. I just thought plainly deleting it might not be a smart thing, if anybody decided one of the two references was useful for the larger section. --DanielPharos (talk) 17:54, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Windows tax 

message: I'm likely not the best person to write about this, but I'm surprised that there is no criticism directed at the clumsiness of Microsoft UIs, or broadly their lack of sophistication when it comes to the design of any human-machine interfaces. It seems apparent to me that MS overburdens their UIs to the detriment of overall usability. It is the ubiquity of their tools that seems to buttress them against the impacts of the sheer lack of usability (i.e., familiarity with such behavioral quirks would tank any less powerful player's offerings).
I wish someone could write to this. I doubt this is a unique observation. Anyone agree? Any takers?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.56.194.131 (talk) 14:08, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  User Experience & User Interface Design Criticism? 

message: Please familiarize yourselves with the WP:TALK policy, avoid the trolls and start using this and other talk pages regarding the Microsoft articles, for discussions about improving the articles, and not for speculation and/or soap-boxing, or as a forum for discussing various topics, related or not, to the article in question. Thanks. - Meewam (talk) 22:23, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Policy regarding talk pages 

message: Recently, an exploit involving .lnk-files was discovered and patched . Unfortunately, by that time Windows XP SP2 support had already been dropped, depite it being widely used (still 10+% I believe). Microsoft got a lot of flak for this: some users CAN'T update to SP3 (install fails). Even though the patch *seems* to function just fine on SP2, it's not supported and the pointed-to patch refuses to install. Maybe a small section here can be devoted to that? (PS: I'm a bad writer. Not it!) --DanielPharos (talk) 21:37, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: For instance,  but many can be found: google something like "microsoft lnk sp2" without quotes. Also, it was mentioned in a recent Security Now! episode. --DanielPharos (talk) 20:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not patching widely used Windows's 

message: Only half the initial paragraph of the copyright enforcement section appears to be about copyright enforcement. It seems to be mostly a series of different issues thrown together. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to restructure it or change the section title?
IRWolfie- (talk) 18:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright Enforcement Section 

message: Much of the article is outdated. For instance, after the buyout by oracle, opensolaris has been discontinued. And google no longer participates in Chinese censorship.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.190.11.248 (talk) 23:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:NOTNP it also includes historical information. 194.207.86.26 (talk) 04:50, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outdated information 

message: Perhaps one of the most important subtopics is missing - critics of MS Software development and programming techniques.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.178.201.108 (talk) 22:16, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What kind of criticisms are those? Can you provide a link to them? --DanielPharos (talk) 11:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Software development and programming 

message: Microsoft scams currently redirects to this article (not to a specific section). I doubt whether this is appropriate, since the article seems not to contain any information about a specific scam, and the redirect may have been created in violation of NPOV. Any suggestions? SoledadKabocha (talk) 22:05, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: According to its history, it was the outcome of an AOD: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Microsoft_Scams --DanielPharos (talk) 20:08, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Microsoft scams" redirect 

message: In all friendliness: Why did the section get deleted that I posted on the ongoing problems with Outlook? Does widespread user criticism not count as criticism?
This is not a rhethorical question, please enlighten me. Otherwise I have to assume censorship by Microsoft.
Was the section damaging to MS's reputation and business? Perhaps. But it was perfecty neutral, also, as far as I can see.
Please?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.113.98.156 (talk) 23:15, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outlook issue immediately deleted - why? 

message: There is no problem with quoting (this is intended for scholarship and research). Please demonstrate that it doesn't constitute fair use if you consider "non-free quotes" inappropriate here. -- Bahaltener (talk) 02:09, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vendor lock-in quotes fair use 

message: It gets a bit hard to continue to trust Wikipedia when something that big isn't even mentioned... 
Is it just a very unfortunate coincidence that no one has bothered adding information about that yet, or is that type of information being actively suppressed?
--TiagoTiago (talk) 17:34, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: That subject has been tied-up in another article: Draft:Microsoft privacy controversies --DanielPharos (talk) 08:23, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why is it a draft instead of already being posted and linked here, and with a POV template or whatever are the complaints added? --TiagoTiago (talk) 12:00, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it was involved in an AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Microsoft Spyware (2nd nomination). But please be bold! --DanielPharos (talk) 13:29, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about all the privacy issues with Win10 and related updates to previous versions? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I move that the entire Article be Re-titled "Promotion of Microsoft" so as to more-accurately reflect the entirety of the work.66.25.171.16 (talk) 20:57, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to Retitle this Article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Shouldn't there be something on forced updates from Microsoft that often destroy functions that PC's had before the updates? ---------User:DanTD (talk)  16:28, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defective updates 

message: The content added doesn't accurately reflect the source. The Guardian article says fifty employees signed the petition; the content added to this article says "hundreds". I'd suggest changing the article to "some employees" or "a number of employees". Schazjmd (talk) 19:16, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Military ties 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Microshaft. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 21#Microshaft until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Hog Farm  Bacon 02:50, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Microshaft" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Good morning. I've moved content from Mono to this article, under Criticism of Microsoft#Mono patent concerns. Feel free to flog me if this was too bold. 
I have WP:NPOV concerns about this content, but I largely copied it as it was. I can't imagine major revisions or deleting this content without discussion going well, regardless of what article it belongs to.
Jdphenix (talk) 07:28, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added new section for Mono patent concerns 

message: — Assignment last updated by Uwudubuwu (talk) 23:35, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Gender, Race and Computing