Talk:Haitian Creole

message: This article is terrible. The IPA transcriptions aren't even in the IPA (I have no idea what system is being used), and it seems that no one has any idea what orthography is actually used for Haitian Creole.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.111.199.58 (talk) 20:19, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ça sé pâs ké créyol pa gen on ôtograf ofisièl ancô (gen pliziê ôtograf yo), mé lot ôtograf ké yo t’ap itilizé poû réprézanté lang-lan pa’t tré inifôm ni tro clê donc mwen té révizé âtic-la avèc on ôtograf plu inifôm.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.37.157 (talk) 16:20, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "Òtograf" pa "ôtograf." "Ôtograf" se "autograph", non? Pascalulu88 (talk) 03:50, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: IPA

message: Shouldn't the section about "plural of nouns" come after the one about "definite articles?"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.187.207.205 (talk) 20:01, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Order of subtopics

message: Isnt it possible that this term originates from spanish chicle rather than the brand name (which got its name from spanish) especially if the t is silent like in french ?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.193 (talk) 12:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would concur that the word is derived from chicle, the traditional polymer that chewing gum is/was made from, rather than backformed from the derived brand name Chiclets.  Barring any cultural evidence to the contrary, I back that theory. 71.241.78.140 (talk) 10:41, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chiklèt 

message: I am Isaac Crumm. I have been looking at wikipedia for quite some time, but I just joined recently. I think this particular page is pretty awesome. I added a bunch of those phrases and grammar yesterday. Thanks to whoever made it real neat and presentable; I am still trying to get a hang of the markup commands. I haven't been much in the Haitian-Creole circles for quite some time, so I may be kind of old on the spelling, and my computer currently can't use the accent marks. 
Does anyone know of Bryant Freeman- has he published anything new recently (last 10 years)?
Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm (talk • contribs) 08:32, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to everyone; it looks like this page is really coming along. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm (talk • contribs) 07:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the missing accents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.207.66 (talk • contribs) 22:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The accents were added. Fågelina 22:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: The article says "There are two dialects: Fablas and Plateau." Could we get some more info on these? There is nothing written in the stubs linked. I have never heard these terms used by Haitians (doesn't mean they don't use them, just I don't hear them), but I frequently hear "kapwaz" used to describe the Cap Haitian mode of speech. Any comments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm  (talk • contribs) 07:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Creole spoken in the North, Cap-Haitien for example, is closer to the Creole spoken in Guadeloupe and Martinique.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk) 22:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Your rendition of "Capois" in Creole is incorrect. The "s" is silent so it would be Kapwa, if you would like to use that spelling for an actual person. See: François Capois, a revolutionary northerner, hence where the name came from. Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:36, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Dialect

message: Should Haiti be considered a Latin American country? This is a topic on the Latin American talk page. I don't want to bring the debate here, but was just curious what the users here thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm  (talk • contribs) 07:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Classifications are always arbitrary unless one specifies a purpose. So the real question is: what is the purpose of classifying countries into "Latin American" and "not Latin American"? Once you answer this question, the answer to your question will probably be obvious. Jorge Stolfi 19:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

text: PS. Remember to sign your entries with "~~~~" so that readers can tell one message from another. Jorge Stolfi 20:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Not sure your point is relevant here, but regardless, it's not true.  It's a language with its own unique grammar, vocabulary, phonology and orthography.  You might as well call French "slang-infused, pidgin Latin".... Prof Wrong (talk) 10:31, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Random question

message: * zwazo - oiseau [(le)s oiseaux] - bird
Shouldn't that be le(s) oiseaux?
66.32.97.68 19:16, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, on second glance, scratch what I said, I don't know why they decided to put the part that is incorporated into the Creole in parentheses, for example in (la) lune. Seems weird. Can we maybe take out the parentheses in (la)? QuartierLatin1968 09:28, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: Are there any organizations that regulate this language? what are the ISO codes for this language? Revolución 04:39, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  I need help with some information for the infobox

message: I have some doubt that Creole uses the a sound as much as the IPA pronunciations make it seem, but I know nothing of Creole, and french does use it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee S. Svoboda (talk • contribs) 21:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sample phrase pronunciations 

message: I edited the IPA so that it represents the French uvular  more accuately, but is the r for Haitian Creole an alveolar trill or is it also uvular? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aeusoes1 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't believe it exists. I have never heard Haitian Creole spoken with an uvular trill and I've toured the country extensively. In fact, I believe it is one of those things that, to the average Haitian, sounds "Frenchy" and therefore snobbish/condescending. Braidedheadman 18:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It does existe in creole as well do the french sounds (oe, eu etc.) people forget there is more than one way to pronounce things in creole. Accents vary in Haiti so not everyone pronounces everything the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.104.54 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is true. I also have noticed it is more heard upon emphasis in the speaker; such as a point trying to be made. Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:52, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Creole {{IPA|ʁ}}?

message: Why is this included in the list of phrases? :: Salvo (talk) 08:26, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No idea. Possibly it is meant as a question directed at a child and nothing else? Kinda makes you chuckle though, doenit...  ;] //Big Adamsky 15:20, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who's your daddy? 

message: The words in the sample vocabulary seem to have been picked for the purpose of showing the derivation from French. But presumably the language has words borrowed from other sources, or made up (onomatopoeias etc.) It would be nice to include examples of those words too. Jorge Stolfi 10:55, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, Some were added. It appears though that maybe not all of them are not of French origin. More in this dept would be appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm (talk • contribs) 17:43, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More varied vocabulary sample needed 

message: I believe that in French orthography the derivatives of proper nouns are not capitalized, is that correct? What is the custom in Haitian Creole? In particular, should we write Aysiyen or aysiyen? Jorge Stolfi 10:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, I was just about to ask this. Savvyjack23 (talk) 20:56, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalization of Aysiyen 

message: Hello,
i was wondering about the origin of this word.
It is also used in Mauritian Creole (e.g. Mo fek fer sa... I just did that) but we do not know how or where it comes from. MC does not have much West-African influence except for an archaic word no longer used{Wati-wale(Wolof)..par ci par la(French)..by here by there}. Anybody with any info?
Domsta333 09:01, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The French Wikipedia says it comes from the French phrase "ne faire que...". --201.218.24.21 01:53, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fek 

message: Someone just (as in today) changed the spelling of many of the words in the article. I think it would be good if they put some comments here in the discussion page about it. How is the uniformity of the spelling these days? The changes made- are they some kind of standard, or are they simply the way that particular person thinks they ought to be written?  Isaac Crumm 07:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I'm generally a fan of including diacritical marks where appropriate in names of places, I have never seen the diaeresis on the word Haitian when used in English.  It seems like the change may have been well-intentioned but incorrect. :: Salvo (talk) 00:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It does look that way. A lot of the links on the politics of Haiti page are now dead, because they're all pointing to articles named "Haïtian senate election" or whatever. Fact is, in French and Creole, aï and ayi represent two syllables, whereas in English, the ai is just a diphthong (one syllable), which means there's no more reason for a diaeresis than there would be in "Jamaica". (And for the record, I agree with Salvo in usually preferring to see the diacritics in non-English names!) QuartierLatin1968  22:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since Kharker has not backed up her/his spelling changes with any sort of explanation, either here or on her/his talk page, I'm going to move the article back to the version without the diaeresis.  :: Salvo (talk) 06:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not Haïtians' fault that English speakers mispronounce the name of the country. It's "aye-ee-tee", not "hate-ee." I'm kidding but only partly. Pascalulu88 (talk) 04:49, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling

message: Someone recently added "vou" to the list of pronouns, should it be there? If someone is really speaking Creole, is "vou" used? Isaac Crumm 01:38, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard it used sometimes in the Creole of the French Antilles (Guadeloupe and Martinique), but I don't remember ever hearing it in Haitian Creole. (IANAE) — Preceding unsigned comment added by  207.172.60.250 (talk • contribs) 05:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a "Frenchy" plural form of "you". You might hear it in/around the capital, particularly in Petionville, Delmas, and other areas where people consider themselves "more educated", especially among the Mulato and upper-class. Hence, its use is considered somewhat snobbish and condescending by most Haitians. "Nou" is more appropriate in casual conversation. Braidedheadman 17:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Vou is not snobbish, it is polite. People have the misconsception that haitians hate anything french. That is untrue and a misrepresentation of our people. Terms differ depending on region for example some people use zot intead of yo and some vou instead of ou. Plus ou is vou without the v. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.104.54 (talk • contribs) 18:22, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am a native Haitian creole speaker and have lived in Haiti on and off for 30 years (8 years in Port-au-Prince, 5 years and counting in Cap-Haitien) and when not in Haiti I've been in quotidian contact with Haitian Creole speakers and culture. I have never, EVER heard "vou" used in Haitian Creole, and this across social classes or regional origins. Whether it be in casual conversation, formal presentations, literature, theatre, music...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.115.177.77 (talk) 06:53, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronouns

message: The verbs section—particularly the examples of conjugation—seems ill-formatted. I’m personally not quite sure how it should be reformatted, so I tagged it with a clean-up notice. --Joshua 23:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Verbs section

message: I put some comments on the copula talk page regarding Haitian Creole. I think they are worth looking at and discussing (there) to enhance that article, and the stature of Haitian Creole in that article Isaac Crumm 20:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copula

message: Well, this goes for everyone, but today, specifically for 71.124.156.23, please discuss before making wholesale changes, and changes ought to be kept uniform with the way the language is described in the article (definite article = la, not la). Isaac Crumm 01:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent Changes

message: I've noticed a couple of items that I believe need to be examined for correctness. I'll list them below with what corrections I think should be made:
* In the "To know" verb category, the treatment of "konnen" and "konn" as two separate words, in form and definition, is incorrect. "Konn" is the contracted form of "konnen" and as such they share identical meaning. "Konnen (konn)" comes from the French verb "Connaitre", which means "to know of (someone/something)", "to have experience in (some activity)", "to be familiar with (some concept)", etc. For example, "Mwen Konnen  Jean-Paul / I know Jean-Paul," and "Mwen konn pale kreyòl / I know how to speak Creole." The second verb form of "to know" that the original author was probably referring to is "se", in Creole, from the French verb "savoir", which means "to know (something)", as in, "Mwen se nimewo telefon mwen pa kè / I know my telephone number by heart," and, "Li se kreyòl / She knows Creole." Note that the verb "se / to know" can be confused with the verb "se / to be" in sentances such as these, especially if instead of saying "Creole" in the last example, one says, "Li se Haitian / She knows Haitian." :P
* I'll continue to add to this topic as time permits. If you choose to do so, please respond with bulleted indentations (:*) below each point that I raise in order to keep this tidy. Cheers. Braidedheadman 19:19, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have to disagree with what you are trying to say about "to know,"  I have never heard "se" to mean "savoir" except if one is speaking in a Frenchy way. We need to hear more opinions on the konnen vs. konn vs. se issue. Please, anybody? Isaac Crumm 22:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes two of us: I've never heard a Creole speaker use "se" to mean "to know." --Cdeutsch 12:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While reading the article, I found two points that looked to me like inconsistencies if I didn’t get it wrong: 1. Lexikon: why does the text contain „lalin“, but the table “lin” for ‘moon’? 2. “In some orthographic representations of Haitian Creole, <r> is used for both /ɣ/ and /w/, since /ɣ/ only occurs before front vowels and /w/ before back vowels. However, some modern orthographies use both <r> and <w> since the difference is phonemic.” Why should the difference be phonemic? If I understand this explanation correctly, they are in complementary distribution? 3. Finally, one interesting question the answer to which might be included into the article: what’s the etymology of the plural marker <yo>? G Purevdorj (talk) 23:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Corrections

message: Wouldn't it be more linguistically correct and more synergetic with other language articles to call this section "Phonology and Orthography"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Csladic (talk • contribs) 23:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, agreed. Sean M. Burke (talk) 05:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: "Sounds and Spellings"

message: I'm under the impression that there is a distinction between Haitian French and Haitian Creole, but I'm not an expert on this. Gringo300 00:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no Haitian French but many Haitians amongst each other may mix Standard French and Creole. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk) 22:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Haitian French versus Haitian Creole

message: Someone put "yon" in front of a bunch of the nouns on the word list. I think it is very unnecessary. Anyone have any thoughts? Isaac Crumm 20:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Yon

message: Someone changed some of the names from French spelling to a phonetic Kreyol like spelling. Personally, I have never seen a Haitian spell their name in this manner. I have always seen the French preserved. What is the current practice/opinion on this? Remember, Wikipedia is supposed to be descriptive not prescriptive. Isaac Crumm 20:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's not forget that all official documents in Haiti are written in French. If someone so-happens to name their child in a phonetic spelling, it would be their choice. This is seen done by Haitians in the Dominican Republic who try to hide their Haitian surname to avoid possible persecution. Baseball player Félix Pie is a strong possibility IMO. However, in Haiti this is not common at all. Savvyjack23 (talk) 05:50, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Names

message: Does mwa mean "me" (French moi)?  If so, this would be a good word to add to the table, as it's an excellent example of the Africanized spelling found in Kreyol. Badagnani 01:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mwa 

message: The entry for Haitian Creole is very good.  In my opinion it gives a clear and useful introduction to the language.  However, being Haitian, I would like to point out that speaking Creole also means using and understanding a significant number of expressions or idioms.  It is mentioned in the entry that there is a Creole dictionary.  In fact, i've seen a few different, but equally useful, ones and they all contain a section dedicated to expressions.  From my own experiences, i have noticed that without these expressions, of which the dictionaries only provide a subset, certain ideas cannot be fully communicated.  This is aggravated by the fact that many of them are quite difficult to translate.  I hope you consider this and continue the good work so that your article on Haitian Creole can become even more thorough. --65.94.172.242 06:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of Expressions 

message: Is it interintelligible with french? if so,it should be noted in this article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.78.237.13 (talk) 16:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Haitian creole's syntax is not African. It originates from French. Words like de and être are often dropped which makes the syntax look less proper but the syntax is of French origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk • contribs) 20:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

text: It's more like English and Jamaican Patois (the real jamaican patois not just english with a jamaican accent). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk • contribs) 20:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interintelligibility with French 

message: I am doing a presentation on Haiti.  I have got to know "key phrases" such as --- Where can I get something to eat? Where can I find a hotel or place to sleep?  Where is the restroom?  Hi and bye.  And any other thing a tourist may want to know while visiting Haiti.  I am representing a Touist Company wanting to make the customers dreams come true visiting Haiti.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.255.207.169 (talk) 00:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Presentation for College class 

message: Is it really necessary to say that "fé back" and "napkin" pushed out original creole words?  The idea of an "original" creole language is problematic to begin with, and the fact that the "original" lexical items are not identified suggests to me that the author of this section is more interested in expressing hostility to English than in providing factual information.  Words are spoken by people--they do not invade a group's vocabulary of their own accord, and language is not a zero sum game anyway.  I'm deleting the phrase in question, and referring its author to the wikipedia page entitled "creole languages." Cthulhu1234 (talk) 03:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: English expressions in Haitian Creole

message: Are there any HC words that can be traced back to African languages? If so, we should add a section on this. Badagnani (talk) 03:11, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Very, very few, if any. The African influence in HC is mostly present in the syntax.--el Aprel (facta-facienda) 21:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Words derived from African languages 

message: *Anasi (from Asante ananse) n. a spider
*Boco (from Fongbe bokono) n. a practitioner of black magic
*Marasa (from Kikongo mabasa) n. twins
*chouc (from fulani chuk) v. to poke
*zombi (from Kikongo nzumbi) n. a ghost,
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Tery M (talk • contribs) 16:41, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: *N a vini (Haitian Creole) | Mi a va  (Ewe)- We will come  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.220.42.38 (talk) 07:01, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: N'à vini (We will come) has no relation to the Ewe language it is all of French origin and originates from Nous sommes à venir (We are to come). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk • contribs) 22:14, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: , please do not edit to other users' comments. In this case you had added your piece to another editor's portion who failed to sign with tildes (~), giving the appearance that it was a part of the original wording. Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:10, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Haitian words of African origin

message: It might be helpful to give French translations of the examples such as "Li se frè mwen" is "Il est mon frère". --81.129.142.136 (talk) 11:47, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: One of these days, I hope to maintenance this article so that it parallels the articles of other languages. Right now it's pretty much a big depository of facts about the language. I don't know what place French has in this article. Adding examples like "C'est mon frère" only makes it wordier than it already is. Haitian Creole has evolved away from French. Including French translations here could be as pointless as including Latin translations in the article about Spanish; indeed, it does show useful information about the evolution, but the languages have differentiated from each other long enough for it not to be necessary. Any opinion about the place French has in this Haitian Creole article, those who patrol this article?--el Aprel (facta-facienda) 20:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, yes. I think that the corresponding French phrases would be both interesting and useful. The purpose of them is not to make a political point, but rather merely to be descriptive and helpful. It's not derogatory to Creole to recognize that it is closely related to French and to point out the correspondences. Just as many people know English and find the English equivalents helpful, many people also know French and would find the French phrases helpful in understanding the Creole and learning how the language is structured. (I had a similar experience in reading about Portuguese while knowing Spanish... Of course Portuguese is not a dialect of Spanish, but for someone who already knows Spanish, it's very helpful to see and understand the systematic correspondences between Portuguese and Spanish.) Omc (talk) 16:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Examples

message: Why did someone change the spellings to French?  Kreyol Ayisyen is its own language, with correct and incorrect ways to spell words.  The words on the KREYOL page should be written in KREYOL, not French!  --72.219.160.133 (talk) 18:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I am Haitian and I must say that Creole is not its own language it is a dialect of French. Yes both Creole and French are languages but Creole is not separate from French it is a façon de parler just as certain regions of France have their own patois so do we. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk • contribs) 22:19, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

text: The spellings were completely replaced by an anonymous user.  While the replacement seems to have been done in good faith (and it was a LOT of work), I reverted the page to use the Kreyol spellings. (Since no one has complained about them before, I presume that the consensus is to keep them).  I hope that the editor who did the change will discuss it here before reverting the page bck to his version.  All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 19:33, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Bad news: Since you reverted, it looks like someone reverted the reversions, and so it's back to the French-etymology system which has been dead (and not much mourned) for decades.  But I wouldn't even know how to revert the reverted reverted reversion, so... can you help? Sean M. Burke (talk) 05:21, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

text: The spelling of the Haitian Creole Expressions is still incorrect.  Why is someone insisting on writing them with French phonology?  My understanding is that "What's up?" is written, "Sak pasé?", instead it is written in the article "Ça qu'passer?". One of the most charming things about Creole is its adherence to phonetic spellings, why write it as it would be in French?  It is not "wannabe" French; the spelling, at least for those who know the international phonetic alphabet is superior, or at least much more representative of the actual pronunciation. Just as some languages (like Spanish) have made an effort to change their spelling to be phonetic, so has Creole.  I'm not remotely knowledgeable enough to change the spellings of all the phrases, but I wish someone would.   68.33.81.68 (talk) 11:53, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  French spellings? 

message: If [w] only occurs before rounded vowels and [ɣ] only before unrounded ones, they are allophones, aren't they? So how comes "However, some modern orthographies use both <r> and <w> since the difference is phonemic."? —Preceding unsigned comment added by A. di M. (talk • contribs) 18:44, 18 October 2009 
:The impression I get from the preface to this textbook is that /w/ and /ɣ/ are separate phonemes, but they're merged (to /w/) before back rounded vowels. Some orthographies are etymological and write gro for /gwo/ 'big', while others are phonetic and write gwo. /w/ can occur before unrounded vowels, as in /mwa/ 'month', spelled mwa or moua (but never mra). +Angr 09:53, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: And you have a minimal pair: /wi/ "yes" and /ɣi/ "road" (among others).--el Aprel (facta-facienda) 01:09, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  /w/ vs. /ɣ/ 

message: In the sidebar, the number of speakers is listed as 14,000,000. But the footnote on the number (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=hat) does not support the number - it says "6,960,000 in Haiti (2001). Population total all countries: 7,701,640." And the opening sentence of the Wikipedia says 8 million in Haiti plus about 1 million elsewhere. I have not found any support elsewhere for a 14 million number. I'm reluctant to change it because I know it's referenced elsewhere (for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers) and I don't want to mess up the linkages. But I suggest that someone who knows how this works check and fix the number. I think the fix is simply to change 14 million to 8 million (or maybe 9 million). Omc (talk) 15:59, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of speakers = 14 million?? 

message: It seems odd that this is the very first section in this article. The main subject of the article should be the language itself, and how it's used by its principal speakers in Haiti. Usage outside of Haiti is interesting and relevant, but should be discussed after the main part of the article, not as the very first section. I'm relocating this section to the end. Omc (talk) 16:44, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Relocate "Usage Outside of Haiti" section

message: What does this mean in relation to pineapple? The link, as usual, goes to a fucking disambiguation page. Check your links, you fuckers. --213.130.252.119 (talk) 22:35, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoever edits or is in charge of this page knows nothing about Creole, the word "Ananas" pronounced (a'na'na) is a word from the Taino indians which means pineapple, I don't know what Tupi is ???  And the examples of Creole phrases are horrible: Its not mwen se yon dokte it's "Mouin c'est on docté" / "Mouin ç'on docté" or "Mwen sé on dokté" / "Mwen s'on dokté" according to the phonetic spelling and why aren't the pronoun abbreviations connected to the words for example: L ap vini should be "L'ap vini" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.98.219 (talk) 00:36, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no single editor for any article and noone is in charge of a page. I do believe the specific language 'ananas' comes from is Guarani according to this German dictionry of plant etymology. 'yon' is used in scholarly literature such as On the Distribution of Determiners in Haitian Creole and HAITIAN CREOLE SE: A COPULA, A PRONOUN, BOTH OR NEITHER? ON THE DOUBLE LIFE OF A FUNCTIONAL HEAD. Any changes you could implement yourself as long as you provide sources. Munci (talk) 22:03, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

text: I'm not saying the word 'yon' is incorrect but the usage of the word in the examples is off. 'Yon' is mostly used when saying 'on' after a word is more difficult as in 'Prend on l’aute gâçon / Pran on lot gâson' which tends to sound like 'pr’on l’aute gâçon / pr’on lot gâson' which is an exceptable conjunction but if the speaker wants to be clear or annunciate I gues you could say, he or she’d use 'yon' making the sentence easier to say: 'Prend yon l’aute gâçon / pran yon lot gâson'  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.103.212 (talk) 21:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Guarani is a language spoken in Paraguay, as you can see on the article page. If you have a source saying its Taino origin, please provide it. Munci (talk) 23:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tupi 

message: You don't spell a person's name phonetically e.g. Pyè (Pierre) or Mari (Marie) only words. Also the /ŋ/ sound is a creole phoneme and appears in words like peng, zong and malfwendeng it also appears in french in words like dingue —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.42.108 (talk) 17:30, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That (about the names) sounds right to me, although I don't know for sure. I reverted those changes you made previously mostly not for that reason, but because the orthography you used (pôté, lâjan, etc.) is not the same one used in the rest of the article. (We discussed that above with an IP that wanted to use an ad-hoc orthography consisting mostly of plain French words.) What you said about the ŋ sounds not quite right; "peng" sounds like it should be "peny" (peɲ) ("comb") and I'm pretty sure that "dingue" is [dɛ̃g]. —Internoob (Talk · Cont · Wikt) 22:19, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling

message: This section was removed from the article because Wikipedia is not a place for advertising, original research, nor a download repository.  I placed it here rather than deleting it with the hope that some brave Wikipedian might be able to grep any remaining useful information:
After the devastating earthquake that hit Haiti in 2010, international help badly needed translation tools for communicating in Haitian Creole. Public and private institutions that made them availableCarnegie Mellon releases data on Haitian Creole to hasten development of translation tools include Carnegie Mellon University, Microsoft Research and Translators Without Borders, among others. See the "External links" section for some of the tools available. ☭ Zippanova 05:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The language does sound spammy and unencyclopedic, but the information presented is quite relevant to the article, and it has been directly helpful to me in my own research. Not all references to evil corporations and the humanitarian projects thereof are advertising per WP:SPAM. References to research data do not violate WP:ORIGINAL. For contributors who may have added spam or inappropriate external links in good faith,  may be used on their talk pages as a first warning. Thank your for your hard work doing the wiki dishes and taking out the wiki trash; it is much appreciated. Go Canucks! Heyzeuss (talk) 21:30, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Peng / pingue or pingre (proper spelling) means stingy. 71.174.40.60 (talk) 22:55, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section "Translation efforts after the 2010 Haiti earthquake" removed 

message: A number of IPs keep wanting to change the spelling system. Everyone seems to want to use their own orthography, and that's not going to work. We need to keep the article to the orthography that is used most often today, which is used by the Haitian government web sites (when they don't use French) and the Creole Wikipedia, (not to mention most of the rest of the Internet) which I'm pretty certain is also the official orthography. If someone is so inclined, they could write a section on orthography debates in the idea of WP:NPOV. —Internoob (Talk · Cont · Wikt) 04:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know where you get the idea that it's not precise, or that the only correct way to spell Creole is with French orthography. I'm not sure what flaws you see either. Your comment is really vague. But if you look at the external links section, not a single one of them uses anything other than this orthography, including the Haitian Creole Wikipedia which is indeed written by real Haitians. —Internoob (Talk · Cont · Wikt) 18:04, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keep the spelling 

message: Pou ki ça ou écri non péï-a “ayiti”? Non péï-a pa prononsé ayiti (a’ji’ti) sé aïti (a’i’ti) fo ou couté pou wé ça. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk) 20:21, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "Ayiti" se òtograf ofisyèl non peyi a.  Nou mèt wè sa nan Imn nasyonal gouvènman ayisyen mete sou wèb ak nan anpil lòt kote nan sit ofisyèl gouvènman ayisyen.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.198.165.87 (talk) 20:57, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: , please refrain from editing other users' comments as you did above. Savvyjack23 (talk) 05:42, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  aïti 

message: I have made a lot of modifications to this article in the last 2 weeks because it was just terrible.  I believe that what is needed now is a subsection on the origins of this language.  This article barely mentions anything about it.  I have read that there are 2 different theories (creole already partially developed in West Africa; local development of creole).  I think this article won't ever be complete without elaborating on the origins of this language.-Boukman 74.198.165.107 (talk) 22:57, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Creole was developed on the island which is why it is called creole because it is native. It comes from the french patois spoken by french colonists as well as white and black creoles. Africa doesn't really have as much influence on creole as many would like to think besides a few lexical items. Grammatically creole is derived from this old patois or way of speaking french.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk) 19:43, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the Haitian creole language subsection required 

message: Ok i do not know where the f* you get your information from when you say that most haitian do not speak any other language then Kreyol not even French. Most haitian, even the one who only had a chance to have little education do speak French and understand it. I think saying that communication was made difficult due to people inability to speak Kreyol and haitians inability to speak another language including french is very bias... i must add...it looks as if this section was written by someone who never been to Haiti and relies on what news and whatever people may say. Please correct this section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.30.208.117 (talk • contribs) 02:42, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation efforts after the 2010 Haiti earthquake

message: "Although the lexicon is mostly French, the sentence structure is like that of the West African Fongbe language. This is because many of the enslaved peoples that were brought to Haiti came from the former kingdom of Dahomey (present day Benin).
"I took the preceding part out of the article because it's false altough it does seem possible that the sentence structure in Haitian creole originates from Africa it actually originates from French and is a result of the dropping of the words de (in regards to nouns) and à (in regards to pronouns). For example C'est à lui is the standard way to say 'This/that belongs to him/her'. In the colonial patois of Haiti one could say Chemise à lui meaning 'His/her shirt' this becomes shortened to chemise-lui although the placing of yo at the end in pluralization probably did origante in Africa. The same thing happens with de. In standard French one would say Soeur de Paul to say 'Paul's sister'. In Creole where the de is often dropped (note that the à is still used in Haiti, mainly in the north) Soeur de Paul becomes Soeur-Paul. To say La soeur de Paul in Creole would be Soeur-Paul là the là in this sentence and its variations in Creole (à, an, nan) do not originate from the French definate article la (the) as it is popularly believed. The là actually originates from ce(tte)...là so Creole's Soeur-Paul là originates from the old Patois saying Cette soeur de Paul là which is a counter part to American southern talk. For example: 'That there Paul's sister is nice' / Cette Soeur de Paul là est gentille (note that the verb être too is often dropped in Creole) / Soeur-Paul là gentille. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there any references for this? I notice in Ewe language the articles LA and A come after the noun, and suitability of the article depends on the ending of the noun phrase. It's hard to explain why the Haitian definite article should vary if it's based completely on French. 174.20.179.158 (talk) 03:57, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

text: One could probably find references for this but for a Francophone it is pretty obvious. The reason the article changes in Haitian creole is because the changes made it easier to pronounce also creole uses Là, à, an, & nan as opposed to just la & a. As stated before it is possible but think about it African slaves learned the patois from Creole slaves who learned it from French Colonists who communicated with their slaves in their French patois which got broken down. Haitian Creole is more of a broken down language rather than a mixed one. Yes there are lexical Items from other languages but for the most part it's french even the tense markers are of French origin. Note that Creole slaves existed on the island long before the huge waves of African slaves arrived and were for the most part accustomed only to French culture it was the creole slaves who the Africans looked up to and how they came to learn the patois which the non-French speaking Africans butchered.
"Examples of the breaking down from French to Creole"
*French - "Je suis capable"
*Creole - "Mouin capabe" > "Mouin ca..."
*French - "J'ai besoin d'aller"
*Creole - "Mouin besouin aller"
*French - "Je suis là"
*Creole - "Mouin là" 
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.10.198.128 (talk) 21:38, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Notice in the examples above the word de and the verbs être, avoir are dropped. Now the dropping of the words may have originated in some way from African language or just the failure of the Africans to fully master the patois but African presence is mostly present in Creole lexical items rather than grammar and words related to grammar. The only gramatical phenom is the use of the word yo (which originates from a blend of Fon ye and Ewe wo) in pluralization. It is the same with Jamaican Patois; the gramar however broken it may be is of English origin and the only African article of grammar is the usage of the word dem (them) in pluralization just like in Creole.
*French - Les livres
*Creole - Liv yo
*English - The books
*Jamaican Patois - De book dem
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk • contribs) 20:34, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction 

message: Mwen vle ke moun-sa k'ap edite atik la konne o mwen ekri non pei a. Se pa ayiti; se pa koman nou prononse'l se aiti; pa gen son igrèk la dan ou konne. E plis, kreyòl pa se lang kreyòl; kreyòl se non li se koman nou rele'l pa s'ke se nou-mèm (moun kreyòl) ki pale'l. Kreyòl se on patwa, on fason de pale ou konne. Me ki moun mwen ye? Avi-mwen pa vle di an yen mwen sèlman on moun kreyòl ki konne de kilti-li. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: , please refrain from editing other users' comments as you did above. Savvyjack23 (talk) 05:42, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Ou konne ekri? se AITI; PA AYITI!

message: Under the grammar section, I think that we should switch to a glossing system that shows word-by-word glossing as well as natural translations. I went ahead and did this for the first example. True (talk) 20:01, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar gloss format 

message: Obviously, the article needs to follow the current officially recognised orthography.
However, I think it would be nice to see a section on the difference from the previous ways of writing.  Has anyone got a copy of an old version of something like the Our Father (old philologists' favourite) that can be used to show the differences between French, older writing styles and the current standard?
Prof Wrong (talk) 16:12, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree completely. Prof Wrong (talk) 09:11, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Older orthography -- new section...? 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
*Oppose and instead change Haitian Creole into a disambiguation page for Haitian Creole language, Haitian Creole people & Haitian Creole Lexicon. Nikthestoned 09:14, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://esciencenews.com/articles/2010/01/27/carnegie.mellon.releases.data.haitian.creole.hasten.development.translation.tools. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Dana boomer (talk) 18:38, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: Even though there is an h in the alphabet, there is no h sound like hotel in English. The sentence that says, "There are no silent letters..." I do not believe that is factual. Can we get a check on that? Second opinion maybe? 
Also, I've added the non-native consonants dj sound as in djaz meaning jazz in English. There are over 10 words like this in the Haitian-Creole dictionary. Also, according to B. B. Schieffelin, K. A. Woolard, and P. V. Kroskrity (eds.), Language Ideologies: Practice and Theory (pp. 285–316) (PDF shortened version pgs. 427-443)". p. 433. Semi-vowels and nasal are separate, summed up into four categories (not including the non-native consonant "dj") Savvyjack23 (talk) 19:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The ''h'' sound (and changes made to Orthography and phonology) 

message: The use of Haitian creole as a literary language can be traced back to - insert more information. 
This is a stub of a new section that I want to add later. Please don't remove.  Boukman (talk) 21:11, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literature 

message: The introduction made this specific claim twice before I changed the "95%" to "most".  There is no doubt that the great majority of the population speaks Creole natively, but it is difficult to assess how many Creole speakers can also speak French, as hard data on language knowledge in Haiti is difficult to come by.  (I know the New York Times article, which we are using as a source, provides the "sole language of 95% " claim, but it's unclear where they obtained that figure from.)  68.49.171.46 (talk) 19:44, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with this change. In fact I found an official francophonie estimate that had this "percentage" a lot higher than this. The problem with "5%" is that there is an assumption out there that only the colored, whites or elites speak French (which is the same "5%" occasionally used for population of this ethnic group). These sources reek of biases and hold no actual factual value whatsoever. Savvyjack23 (talk) 19:34, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Only language of 95% of the population" 

message: I don't understand explanation of nasal vowels.
How is /ã/ nasalized /ɒ/?
How is /ɔ̃/ nasalized /o/?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.30.113.88 (talk) 19:24, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nasal vowels 

message: The correct English term is 'mutually intelligible with....'.178.197.239.204 (talk) 14:36, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Savvyjack23 (talk) 23:14, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Mutually comprehensible with French' 

message: I do not think we have sources for this section. I am having great difficulty locating them. Savvyjack23 (talk) 05:43, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: (Recent change) "Kònflèks" → kònfleks; the former sounds like konn-flex when it should have a "flay" sound hence dropping the è. In simpliest terms, English "-flakes" and HC "-fleks" should sound about the same. Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:26, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lexicon 

message: The etymology section covers the generic word "creole", but that's already covered where it should be, under Creole language and Creole peoples. Can we not count on someone who wonders where the word "creole" comes from to follow the link at the beginning of the article to Creole language? It just seems redundant here, like providing the etymology of the word "history" under every "History of X" article. Largoplazo (talk) 18:01, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Value of etymology section 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The verb "héler" is relatively new in French, it is an anglism from the verb "to hail." So this never was replaced by the word "appeler," which always been the good one.
Furthermore, "héler" is only use on boats to say "to call." It was never used to ask someone's name. It is the same as for Canadian French, some words used onboard were still used in the colony.
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/_h%C3%A9ler/39338
https://www.littre.org/definition/h%C3%A9ler
: ↑ ↑ This section was added 25 January 2018 by IP user 24.201.187.26. --Thnidu (talk) 17:20, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "héler" is a modern word 

message: Michel DeGraff brought this to my attention. He says it reads like a bad Google translation. This is problematic because it feeds into the erroneous idea that Creole is an inferior language, incapable of communicating fully across the human experience. Any comments?
NegMawon (talk) 19:54, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Creole in Hertz Image is a Poor Translation and I Would Like To Remove it

message: As a linguist (but not a speaker of Kreyòl), I'm wondering about an apparent contradiction in the table of examples under "Possession".
In the text above the table, it says "...and possessive constructions are often followed by a definite article."  However, one of the examples is fanmi an m.  In this construction, the definite article an does not "follow" the possessive construction, since the basic possessive construction is fanmi m[wen]  
Sounds like the fanmi an m example is incorrect, as someone else (a native speaker?) has already flagged the issue above.  Perhaps an authority can make a correction or clarification in the article?
Thanks again!  It's great the way this article has been shaping up over the years :)
Giangola (talk) 21:28, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possession example "fanmi an m" 

message: Reinstated section. The Creole in Haiti is called Creole because the language was originally named after a “noun”, a type of people; not a linguistic characterization that came much later. “Haitian Creole” is merely a more specific name classification of this language in comparison to others that include Creole in its name. Also, in Haiti (and outside of it) when one is asked what language does one speak, the typical response would be simply Creole. Similarly, when an American is asked what language does one speak, the typical response would not be “I speak American English” but rather akin to ”I speak English“. The same logic applies. Not sure how this is confusing to some people. I made sure to make it a point in the lead. Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:07, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology, and simply Creole 

message: This is highlighted in the "Difference between Haitian Creole and French" subsection, but I'm not sure this is the best example, as I suspect the Creole word kay is not derived from maison but from case ("shack") instead. 2600:1702:6D0:5160:4994:7804:8C2A:A386 (talk) 20:26, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting but this example was merely used to show the placement and use of the definite article (“the”) in the sentence which comes after the noun, not in regards to the noun (“house”) itself. Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:54, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: A few good examples to show the placement of the definite article after the noun in Haitian Creole would be: "La chaise" in French and "chèz la" in Haitian Creole, "la route" and "wout la", "la table" and "tab la". YourHaitianTranslator (talk) 23:39, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "la maison" - "kay la" example  

message: The article claims 'The verb kapab (or shortened to ka, kap or kab) means "to be able to (do something)". It refers to both "capability" and "availability"'. But I'm not sure this is true for "kap" in all contexts. Maybe kap has two senses but there should be something clarify this. In the context of "sakap fet" or "moun kap vini jodia" I don't think the word "kap" signals any kind of availability. 129.161.191.190 (talk) 00:52, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kap; Is it kapab or ki ap?