Talk:Shamu

message: Someone just changed all mentions of orcas to killer whales. I know virtually zilch about Shamus so could someone confirm that this is correct? SandBoxer 04:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Killer whale and orca are different names for the same thing. However, orca is the more scientific name (as they are dolphins and not actually whales) and is the name of the article on Wikipedia about them. --βjweþþ (talk) 16:18, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orca/Killer Whale? 

message: The article mentions 55 degrees Fahrenheit. Maybe this should be changed to the metric unit. Is there a standard which units to uns in Whttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_pageikipedia?
I added Celsius in parentheses. SandBoxer 21:49, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure why this last unsigned comment is here (under "Units") but... The 2010 (Orlando) Florida SeaWorld incident involving Tilikum at/after a "Dine with Shamu" show is described in the Tilikum and Shamu (SeaWorld show) articles.   Pugetbill (talk) 13:42, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Units? 

message: I did a copyedit on the most recent inclusion, but I'm wondering if so much detail should be here in the first place.  Is there a page on the shows specificially that this information can be moved to?  If not, do we really need to know all this stuff? Lomaprieta 08:59, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See below article split discussion - "Created new article - split from Shamu." 
Information about the Shamu show(s) and the Shamu "character" in those shows at SeaWorld should be placed in the new Shamu (SeaWorld show) article.  Information about the killer whale named Shamu (died 1971) should be placed in 'this' Shamu article.  Pugetbill (talk) 13:57, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shamu Show 

message: This section seems to have some degree of speculation about the motivation of the Sea World management in creating the show. I've never seen it, so I'm not really qualified, but IMHO it would be best to rewrite this section, sticking to the facts about the show itself, plus summary of the show's critical reception. Vectro 17:21, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See below article split discussion - "Created new article - split from Shamu."  Show info fits better into the Shamu (SeaWorld show) article, not here Pugetbill (talk) 15:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Believe 

message: :Image:Shamulogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:42, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Shamulogo.jpg

message: I would like to see information added to this article regarding the original Shamu.  Numerous guests are confused over the stage name and actual history of SeaWorld's first orca.  She is the reason behind SeaWorld's success and definitely deserves the credit!  I have searched the internet and created the following paragrpah.  "Shamu is the name of the first female orca ever captured, in which she was supposed to be a companion for Namu. Hence, the name Shamu means friend of Namu.  Shamu is 100% Southern Resident orca whom was likely born in 1961 and captured in Puget Sound in 1965.  Shamu and Namu resided in the care of Seattle Marine Aquarium, but both orcas experienced social conflicts. Shamu was then obtained by SeaWorld San Diego on December 20, 1965.  She performed in several shows and eventually died on August 23, 1971.  Although today, "Shamu," "Namu," and "Ramu" are stage names given to all of the orcas residing within the SeaWorld parks.  However, the first Baby Shamu is Kalina, which is the first surviving orca born in captivity.  Respectively, her parents Katina and Winston were bestowed the names Namu (Katina) and Ramu (Winston).  Furthermore, Grandbaby Shamu is given to Kalina's first calf - a son named Keet."  If anyone does not disagree, I would like to add my paragraph to the Shamu article.  Furthermore, I would greatly appreciate if anyone would like to add more information to this paragrpah concerning the history of the original Shamu. Thanks! SWF Trainer 22:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See below article split discussion - "Created new article - split from Shamu."  Pugetbill (talk) 15:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Original Shamu 

message: I am trying to compile the soundtrack listing for the Shamu Rocks show at the Orlando park.
If anyone can contribute, it would be much appreciated.  Here's what I have so far:
=== Preshow Music ===
Various upbeat rock music is played from the time stadium seating is opened until about 10 minutes before the show start time.  The video screens display "Shamu Rocks" logo until that time, then they alternate showing various audience members.
* Apollo 440 - Can't Stop the Rock 
* Joan Jett - I Love Rock 'n' Roll
* Queen - We Will Rock You
=== Show ===
(order might be incorrect)
* Unknown Artist / SeaWorld Production -Where the Future Lives (Shamu Rocks Theme Song)
* Dan Hartman - Free Ride
* Savage Garden - The Animal Song  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.98.77 (talk) 15:29, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See below article split discussion - "Created new article - split from Shamu." Show info fits better into the Shamu (SeaWorld show) article, not here Pugetbill (talk) 15:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shamu Rocks - Music 

message: (order might be incorrect)
* Unknown Artist / SeaWorld Production -Where the Future Lives (Shamu Rocks Theme Song)
* Dan Hartman - Free Ride
* Savage Garden - The Animal Song  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.98.77 (talk) 15:29, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See below article split discussion - "Created new article - split from Shamu." Show info fits better into the Shamu (SeaWorld show) article, not here Pugetbill (talk) 15:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Show 

message: Didn't this thing attack someone?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by AtYourService100 (talk • contribs) 20:06, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Shamu did attack her trainer and that is stated within the article's "The History of Shamu" section. SWF Trainer (talk) 13:21, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

text: The 1971 incident involving the original Shamu is retained in this article (Shamu).  The 2010 incident involving Tilikum at/after a "Dine with Shamu" show is in the (new) Shamu (SeaWorld show) article.  - see the "Created new article - split from Shamu" section below.  Pugetbill (talk) 17:12, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attacks? 

message: Perhaps this article should be split into two separate articles?  One about the original killer whale named Shamu [died 1971] and one about the Shamu shows presented at SeaWorld Parks.  This would resolve some of the conflict / confusion noted above.  As it is written now, the article covers both the (original) killer whale and also the show.  For example, the 2010 Feb attack by Tilikum does not belong in an article about Shamu the killer whale but probably is relevant in an article about the Shamu show.   Pugetbill (talk) 21:42, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Both seem notable enough to stand on their own, and it would avoid some confusion. --Avenue (talk) 22:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Should this article be about the animal or the show?   or both?

message: The Wikipedia article Shamu contained information relating to both the killer whale Shamu (died 1971) and to the long running SeaWorld Shamu shows "starring" various killer whales who were given the "stage name" Shamu for the purpose of the shows.  This caused some confusion in the article (as evidenced by comments on the Shamu article's discussion page) so it was suggested (by me) some time ago that the articles be split into two - one for the killer whale "Shamu" and one for the SeaWorld "Shamu" shows.  Receiving at least one positive response to this suggestion (and no negative responses), I have attempted to do this split today.  The new article is titled Shamu (SeaWorld show) and contains the show-related text from this article and can be used for any info on the "other Shamus" that came after the original died in 1971.  I hope this is not controversial and that no important information has been lost in the split.  I have attempted to retain all relevant information in each article and will try to clean up "Shamu" links in other articles to direct to the appropriate new article. Pugetbill (talk) 16:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Created new article - split from Shamu

message: In an older revision of this wikipedia article, it was stated that Shamu was "likely born in 1961" - although direct info on birth year is not (no longer?) present in the citation.  I've done a little searching but the only on-line citation I have been able to find so far that provides any direct info on Shamu's age or birth year is here (http://cetacousin.bplaced.net...):
: "Age at Death	~ 9 years" 
implying a birth year of ~ 1962 or an age of ~ 3 years at her 1965 capture.  of course this approximate (~) estimate would imply that the actual birth year could have been somewhat earlier or later (1961? or 1963?).  It's not clear upon what information this "~ 9 years" age at death estimate is based.  
Given the imprecise and varying estimates of Shamu's age (see below discussion), and until / unless someone can find a more reliable / verifiable citation for Shamu's age, I would suggest the wikipedia article simply refer to Shamu's length and weight at capture - which seem to be better documented / more easily verifiable.  I have added length and weight info (with citations) to the article today to replace the deleted year of birth estimate.
===Age background discussion===
Estimates of Shamu's age vary in different on-line sources.  One piece of information that could be directly measured at the time and seems more widely / more consistently reproduced is Shamu's length (and weight) when captured in October of 1965.  14 feet (~4.25 m), 2000 lbs (~900 kgs):
:"...Griffin named the troubled 14-foot female Shamu..." ("Granny's Struggle: A black and white gold rush is on", Lyke, M. L., Seattle Post-Intelligencer 2006 October 11)
: "...a 14-foot female that weighed 2,000 pounds—was captured and named Shamu" ("The Killer in the Pool", Zimmermann, Tim, Outside Magazine, 2010 July)
Of course these numbers, as written, do not imply a particularly high precision so the actual length and weight at capture could have been several percentage points higher or lower than the figures given.  
In attempting to get a 'reality check' on the age estimate I tried to find out what a reasonable age estimate would be for a 14 ft long, 2000 lb Southern Resident orca.  In my quick attempts at finding on-line information, I'm afraid I could not find much particularly academic or scientific writing on the subject.  I'm sure there must be more scientific study data on this topic but the only statement I have located so far regarding orca length vs. age comes from a SeaWorld site regarding captive orca development:
:"CALF DEVELOPMENT 1. The average growth rate of the calves in the first year was 10 cm (4 in.) per month. They were approximately 3.2 m (10.5 ft.) at one year of age and had gained 454 kg (1,000 lb.)" ("Killer Whales - Birth and Care of Young")
So if a one year old orca is 10.5 ft long (3.2 m) and ~1,300 lbs (590kg) (~300lbs at birth + 1,000 lbs first-year weight gain), then a 14 foot long, 2,000 lb orca is likely significantly older than 12 months.  This presumes captive orca development does not vary too significantly from wild orca development and that there are not significant differences between male and female development.  I imagine orca development may also vary somewhat from individual to individual and from group to group (Transients vs Residents?) - but probably not by that much?   So an estimate of 2 years old (or older?) for Shamu at her capture in October, 1965 seems to be relatively consistent (not inconsistent) with most info easily available on-line.   Pugetbill (talk) 16:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shamu's age 

message: Estimates of Shamu's age vary in different on-line sources.  One piece of information that could be directly measured at the time and seems more widely / more consistently reproduced is Shamu's length (and weight) when captured in October of 1965.  14 feet (~4.25 m), 2000 lbs (~900 kgs):
:"...Griffin named the troubled 14-foot female Shamu..." ("Granny's Struggle: A black and white gold rush is on", Lyke, M. L., Seattle Post-Intelligencer 2006 October 11)
: "...a 14-foot female that weighed 2,000 pounds—was captured and named Shamu" ("The Killer in the Pool", Zimmermann, Tim, Outside Magazine, 2010 July)
Of course these numbers, as written, do not imply a particularly high precision so the actual length and weight at capture could have been several percentage points higher or lower than the figures given.  
In attempting to get a 'reality check' on the age estimate I tried to find out what a reasonable age estimate would be for a 14 ft long, 2000 lb Southern Resident orca.  In my quick attempts at finding on-line information, I'm afraid I could not find much particularly academic or scientific writing on the subject.  I'm sure there must be more scientific study data on this topic but the only statement I have located so far regarding orca length vs. age comes from a SeaWorld site regarding captive orca development:
:"CALF DEVELOPMENT 1. The average growth rate of the calves in the first year was 10 cm (4 in.) per month. They were approximately 3.2 m (10.5 ft.) at one year of age and had gained 454 kg (1,000 lb.)" ("Killer Whales - Birth and Care of Young")
So if a one year old orca is 10.5 ft long (3.2 m) and ~1,300 lbs (590kg) (~300lbs at birth + 1,000 lbs first-year weight gain), then a 14 foot long, 2,000 lb orca is likely significantly older than 12 months.  This presumes captive orca development does not vary too significantly from wild orca development and that there are not significant differences between male and female development.  I imagine orca development may also vary somewhat from individual to individual and from group to group (Transients vs Residents?) - but probably not by that much?   So an estimate of 2 years old (or older?) for Shamu at her capture in October, 1965 seems to be relatively consistent (not inconsistent) with most info easily available on-line.   Pugetbill (talk) 16:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Age background discussion

message: Today I reverted the recent change of the description of "the three previous orca captures" from "more brutal" to "more opportunistic."  While one could assert that any capture of a wild mammal is a "brutal" act, the referenced source does not seem to support the assertion that all three previous captures were "more brutal" than Shamu's capture.  The source does support the assertion that previous orca captures were "more opportunistic."  Only one previous capture (of Moby Doll) was unambiguously "more brutal" according to that source.  The original intent of Moby Doll's capturers was to kill Moby Doll which they attempted to do (with harpoons and gunfire).  But when Moby Doll 'refused' to die, he was captured and brought back to Vancouver mortally(?) wounded but still alive instead.  Shamu's mother (but not Shamu) was harpooned and shot during Shamu's capture but Namu (for example) was apparently still 'loitering' near fishing nets that had previously ensnared an orca calf when he was captured / 'detained' by local fishermen (apparently without the use of harpoons or gunfire).  Based on other sources, the orca "Wanda" was apparently also captured without gunfire or harpooning.  Pugetbill (talk) 01:23, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  revert edit - "more brutal" previous captures 

message: Regarding the 1971 incident involving Annette / Anne Eckis... 
One source (the legal complaint filed against Sea World by Ms. Eckis) gives her name as "Anne E. Eckis, Plaintiff ..."  Other sources refer to her as either "Annette Eckis" or "Anne Eckis" (or "Annette Eckis Godsey" or "Anne Eckis Godsey.")  Some Wikipedia editor with more time and interest could perhaps try to research Ms. Eckis' background (birth certificate? etc.) but I'm not sure it matters that much for the purposes of this Wikipedia article.  
Perhaps her legal name is "Anne" but she chooses to go by "Annette" ???  Or vice versa.   
Pugetbill (talk) 19:31, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anne or Annette?