Talk:Nazar ila'l-murd

message: Pasha Abd, forgive my reversal of your edit, but please look at this link which has the following:
:[Shayban al Ubulli] also said: One day, Rabi'a saw Rabah [al-Qaysi] kissing a young boy. "Do you love him?" she asked. "Yes," he said. To which she replied, "I did not imagine that there was room in your heart to love anything other than God, the Glorious and Mighty!" Rabah was overcome at this and fainted. When he awoke, he said, "On the contrary, this is a mercy that God Most High has put into the hearts of his slaves." 
So that, apparently, they were indeed two separate personages with similar names. Wassalam, Haiduc 00:15, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many Raabi'as? 

message: See my comments at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Nazar_ill%27al-murd for details as to the hellish POV seething throughout this article. Again, Wikipedia is not here to provide a forum sympathetic to pedophiles and pederasts. metaspheres 06:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: To anyone here willing to play by the rules, if you are still interested in working on this then I suggest we strengthen the article by removing anything indefensible and citing as necessary. If any other users persist in imposing capricious criteria we will simply have to refer the matter up the line. Haiduc 02:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that your source scholar makes a good source. I wish I could find more sources online, but I've found only one and it's not scholarly. NinaOdell | Talk 13:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is fine, I have a bunch more books to go through. Feel free to look over the grammar and layout. And we should both extend thanks to Ali and his friends for pointing out the flaws and lacunae in this article. I actually find their criticism very useful and it is helping me focus on making this a more thorough documentation of this important aspect of Sufi life. Haiduc 13:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fantastic. I look forward to reading the finished article. I intend to read the general article on Sufism this morning as well - the topic is fascinating and enlightening.:)NinaOdell | Talk 14:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The way forward 

message: It is
Naẓar [and here the Arabic was wrong too]
 
ila'
l-murd
not illa, not ill'al
it is written in Arabic ila al-murd,
but the a of al is not pronounce,
hence ila'l-murd  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.133.8.114 (talk) 22:40, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  wrong transcription 

message: I have eliminated "Despite opposition from the clerics, the practice has survived in Islamic countries until only recent years, according to Murray and Roscoe in their work on Islamic homosexualities.Stephen O. Murray and Will Roscoe, Islamic Homosexualities; New York University Press, 1997; p.111"
Neither Murray, nor Roscoe have ever been to the Islamic World, nor do they speak any language mainly used by Muslims. If the reference is to an expert author that contributed to their book, you may put it back in amended form, but quoting a guy who has studied North and South American homosexuality himself, but writes about the whole world, we should not do.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.133.8.114 (talk) 22:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Murray 

message: I have reason to believe that the practice still exists among Sufi bauls and the Qalanderiyya malangs and bawas of South Asia. As both these groups are not centrally organized and some times in opposition (or perceived rebellion) to sharia law, there will not be any official written or published statements. However,  it is not limited exclusively to young boys. I rather believe that this is an exception. For example, personally, I do not find young boys (and girls) very appealing (in terms of attraction). But as a heterosexual man, I find a certain kind of woman of my own age group much more appealing and I can also extend this perception to woman older then myself. I know that at least the Baul Sufi groups do mix elements of Sahajja buddhist and vedic Tantrism with their Sufism inspired belief systems, and the same may be also true for the Qalandariyya order. I therefore disapprove to portrait Nazar ila'l-murd as a solely condemnable and extinct practice. It is not different from trying to realize God through glance at the beauty of nature, which is a common practice amongst all faiths.Since the sexual drive is very strong and percular in homo sapiens ( also see Bonobos) it can be utilized and can aid to the realization (of God). 95.223.187.171 (talk) 11:26, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Qalandariyya

message: The history of this article reveals that despite this article being tagged for multiple issues (particularly POV, accuracy and OR), they are inevitably removed by some editor who completely ignores the complaints on this talk and without anyone bothering to even attempt to fix the issue. The article has virtually remained unchanged from the earliest edits as the history clearly shows. Laval (talk) 23:16, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Tagging

message: The images on this page have literally nothing to do with the subject of the article and the interpretations of the poetry are completely original research. Even the title of this article is difficult if not impossible to source properly since the Arabic term does not appear to exist in any sources except mirrored copies of this article. Laval (talk) 23:19, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Images and poetry

message: This article is now ruined by salafi/wahhabi (and other)trolls as well as (other odd) homosexuality proponents. It is now ruined beyond recognition. This is about the ancient Sufi practice of witness gazing right? Why delete all references that explains the practice and add your own condemnations and predispositions?? Is it now a new Wikipedia standard-practice to distort articles and make them worse? Ibn taimiyya was not a conservative 'shaykh al Islam' but a misleading takfiri scholar and an imprisoned criminal (in Islam a person practicing Takfir ejects himself from the Deen, a heinous crime multiplied in the millions if performed by scholars or ulema). Wahhabis claim orthodoxy for themselves alone, but they are a new extremist cult that causes many problems. This article should be reversed to an earlier date, when it actually shed some light into the Sufi practice of realization through witnessing, intoxication with Beauty and Majesty. The practice is also called witness gazing. Birds, animals trees, rocks, pebbles, forests, water, boys, girls, woman, they are largely beardless. Nature herself, with some exceptions, is largely beardless. This method enjoyed so much popularity because many people could not relate as easy to the more complex theology on the 'Sifat' but everybody could relate to (ones' own concept of) beauty and majesty (of nature). --37.24.144.143 (talk) 12:57, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article is now ruined