Talk:Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles Asistencia

message: :The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
Was this pueblo actually a Catholic Church mission or is this article misnamed? Thanks Hmains 03:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, thanks  Hmains 04:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mission vs. Pueblo

message: From the California Mission Studies Association web site:
Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles, Los Angeles County, Landmark 144 
[Formerly an asistencia to Mission San Gabriel]
LOCATION: 535 N. Main St. near Macy St., Los Angeles, CA
--Lord Kinbote 14:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: --evrik (talk) 19:48, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And if you go to http://missionsofcalifornia.org you will see that they list 22 missions, because the site designates San Antonio de Pala (Asistencia) as Mission San Antonio de Pala. I suggest you consult more scholarly sources in the future.--Lord Kinbote 00:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At that site they list all the missions on one page, with no mention of this one. . -Will Beback · † · 01:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's #22 on the list; here is the specific page.--Lord Kinbote 04:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What does Pala have to do with this subject? I meant that "Mission Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles" isn't on the list. -Will Beback · † · 05:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Evrik's argument is that there are only 21 "missions" and cited the web site as one of his sources; the cite lists 22 facilities, calling each one (including Pala) a mission.--Lord Kinbote 16:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The portions of the article dealing with the church (along with the image) have been moved to La Iglesia de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles.--Lord Kinbote 20:03, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Former ''asistencia''

message: A mission station is a location for missionary work. Historically, Christian missions would attempt to convert locals to Christianity, teach Western culture and language, and offer some kind of social service. The mission station would serve as a place for the missionaries and perhaps some converts to live and work. In some colonies, mission stations became a focus of settlement for displaced or formerly nomadic people.
:This further illustrates why an asistencia is a mission.--Lord Kinbote 19:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't this boil down to the difference between the name and the function of the place?  If the building served the function for missionary work, in my opinion, it is a mission.  This is more significant than, two centurys later, whether or not people apply the label Mission.  Missions are defined by function, not arbitrary labels. BruceHallman 15:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It may have functioned as a mission - we don't actually know because the sources are scant. But it almost certainly was not called a mission, and that is what matters for the purposes of naming the article. I propose that we follow the lead of the CMSA website and call the article "Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles". We can discuss the nature of asistencias in the text. -Will Beback · † · 17:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would support a merge/move to Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles.--Lord Kinbote 18:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It would be no such thing. And yes, the current building is La Iglesia, not the original settlement.--Lord Kinbote 18:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Evrik, would you support merging and moving it to Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles? We could have sections on the mission era and the Iglesia era, so to speak. The other two names could redirect there. -Will Beback · † · 18:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

text: That's what we're talking about, a single article that would contain information about the building. And yes, some of the info in this article now is more relevant to the pueblo. -Will Beback · † · 21:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

text: all have the building type in the name ... La Iglesia de Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles or The Church of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels are the most appropriate.
--evrik (talk) 21:28, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What a "mission" is

message: The Archdiocese website has some relevant information:  and . -Will Beback · † · 06:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archdiocese 

message: The artice text was changed erroneously to reflect a founding date of September 4, 1781, which is actually the founding date for the Pueblo of Los Angeles.  The California Mission Studies Assn. web site was improperly referenced in this regard; the actual listings relative to this settlment are as follows:
:Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles, Los Angeles County, Landmark 144
:[Formerly an asistencia to Mission San Gabriel]
:LOCATION: 535 N. Main St. near Macy St., Los Angeles, CA 
:Los Angeles Plaza, Los Angeles County, Landmark 156
:with La Iglesia de Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles (Plaza Church), dating from 1822
:LOCATION: El Pueblo de Los Angeles State Historical Monument
:500 block of N. Main St., Los Angeles, CA 
Mdhennessey 20:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are so certain of your position, then why not wait for admin review instead of continually restoring your POV edits? And actually, the cited sources do confirm it was an asistencia. Mdhennessey 02:05, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Improper citation

message: I don't see much agreement here. Shall we flip a coin? Alternatively, perhaps we could start by developing the "asistencia" material within the current article then move it to its own article when it's sufficiently sourced.  ·:·Will Beback  ·:· 20:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Agreement

message: :The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was Move.
If you read the section above you'll see the agreement. I will support either Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles or Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles Asistencia. --evrik (talk) 02:04, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: This discussion has been moved to Talk:Spanish missions in California. Mdhennessey (talk) 07:01, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Precontact section should be a separate article