Talk:Man vs. Wild/Archive 1

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=== HIS OWN WORDS NOT - !! ===
Mr. Grylls admits that series is for "entertainment" only
He posted it in the Discovery forums, in response to criticism from a forum member:
http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2161971848/m/1421936019/
:: ... Thats not him...--Tao of tyler 16:20, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proof enough? 

message: Mr. Grylls admits that series is for "entertainment" only
He posted it in the Discovery forums, in response to criticism from a forum member:
http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2161971848/m/1421936019/
:: ... Thats not him...--Tao of tyler 16:20, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  HIS OWN WORDS NOT - !! 

message: ::: I'm pasting the section in here for posterity:
::::  There is no need to remove the criticism section.  They are widely known criticisms which, by watching the episode, can be seen.  Bear has even admitted one of them for sure (when he was wearing a life vest.  Criticism is the general opinion of the viewers.  This section needs to be put back in the article so people get the whole picture.  LightningOffense 21:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism (archive)

message: I thought the first episode was in the Rocky Mountains? Evan Reyes 07:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: First episode

message: ... Wouldn't that make you pretty sick? I guess that's better than dying of thirst, but wouldn't you still die?
pay attention to the show more, he explains it. --Plankton5005 01:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dungwater 

message: Is there any word as to whether or not there will be a second season? I guess they could do somewhere in China or something, but I don't know if they could pull off another ten episodes. 69.149.226.40 19:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Season 2? 

message: On Bear's official website it is listed that the second season of "Man Vs. Wild" will premiere on June 15th. I know how to add but I don't know how to add the source at the bottom. So I was hoping someone could help me and add it with the source since I don't want it to get deleted. If you go to Bear's official site it's on the homepage down near the bottom of the news. Thanks a lot. (Tekkodbz 20:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Season 2 

message: Many of the things listed in the Survival Techniques section aren't really survival techniques as much as things Bear did on the show. As the list is quite big, I think we should remove the ones that aren't actually novel techniques. For instance: "Jumping 60+ feet into water of unknown depth" isn't really a survival technique, nor are "Ripping the flesh from a dead zebra with his teeth and eating it raw" or "Biting into a live salmon for nourishment"--eating animals seems pretty obvious to be called a "technique." On the other hand, making scrambled eggs on a hot rock or making a torch from kukui nuts seem more like what I would consider a survival technique. At they very least, they are not completely obvious or trivial. digfarenough (talk) 17:05, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: do it! be bold! Whateley23 02:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm wondering if we should change the name of the section, I think the list is pretty interesting even if it's not all survival techniques or maybe split it into "survival techniques" and some other section that has the crazy/unusual things Bear has done on the show. G0blin 19:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  survival techniques 

message: Let's keep up the above discussion, but this issue is largely becoming moot.  I'm finding solid reference after solid reference for each of the claims that have been made.  For example?  Was the raft tied up by rope?  It sure was!  And it wasn't even built by bear -- it was built by a woman named Celeste Cole, a survival instructor and consultant of the show
"These amazing voyagers have become an inspiration to me for a humble challenge I was given while in Hawaii.  This challenge was to design and construct a primitive vessel by hand, using primitive techniques that could travel at least 50 miles in open ocean, in a week, complete with sail, no less!  I did meet the challenge though it was not completely accomplished in one week, it took a few more days, and of course I did cheat using rope instead of natural cordage on most of the raft.  But it was an incredible experience, and the best part of the whole thing is that the raft floated, was self-bailing, and rode easily in the wave not bouncing and yawing like traditional watercraft will.  It held together in some very rough and nasty weather including heavy ocean swell, and withstood the challenge of Princess, a 16′ Tiger Shark, who became curious of the raft and to get a sense of what this object might be, gummed the aft section of the raft with her massive jaws!  Wow!  This can be a problem with Tigers, if they don’t know what you are, they may gum you to see if you are food, while it really didn’t damage the raft, this gumming could very easily damage or cause one to bleed profusely and quickly end our fun. (I highly recommend Jimmy & Stephanie of hawaiisharkencounters.com for a shark encounter experience, their super folks and Stephanie is very informative regarding shark behavior.)  I had great help in building the raft as well, (which was christened lovingly the “Celeste”, complete with champagne and hurrahs.) and I would like to thank Mike and Jennifer of Kualoa Ranch, also Brian, and Frank for working so hard on the project.  I hope to have pictures of the “Celeste” available in a few weeks to view, along with Princess the Tiger Shark!"
I've found all sorts of other references.  The Mustangs Bear found in the Sierras, for example?  They were shipped in from Nevada.  And so on, and so on.  So, these people who are insistant that you can't report what anyone can see with their eyes won't be able to complain.  -- Rei
: Added a replacement criticisms section.  Hopefully, this time the references should be seen as impeccable.  To help keep track of all of the claims and which ones had been confirmed, I had to start a wiki ;) -- Rei 06:08, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I cant see any problem with that section, although the last sentence seemed lacking in NPOV and I've removed it. Other than that, I dont think anyone can have any objection to that.--Tao of tyler 07:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good to see that we have something that we can agree on.  :)  I think everybody should be satisfied with how this worked out. -- Rei 17:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  In fact, the raft was built by Mark Wienart of LifeSong Adventures, probably in collaboration with Cole, but Wienart claims to have constructed the raft by hand. .--Ownage2214 03:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue Largely Becoming Moot 

message: I don't have time to get it in tonight, but it looks like things have come to a head!  Bear Grylls and the show Born Survivor/Man vs Wild are under investigation by Channel 4 for deliberately deceiving viewers  .  It looks like the critics have only scratched the surface.  He's even been staying at hotels and things like that while "lost".  
Looks like BearWiki isn't even needed any more, now that this has come to light. -- Rei 04:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is another link, on the BBC website this time.  Gaius Cornelius 17:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Rather than force Bear to cease using assistance Survivorman style, it looks like Discovery Channel will simply force him to reveal that assistance, essentially transforming the show from reality-style to an education program . User:Jzylstra 20:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Reuters has picked up the controversy as well.--ownage2214 01:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: So now that the obvious has finally been reported by a righteous media outlet, can we finally in include the information in the article? --Haizum    μολὼν λαβέ 13:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure!  That's how wikipedia works..  You need a source.  Pfalstad 14:52, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why Wikipedia isn't taken seriously. --Haizum    μολὼν λαβέ 16:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I think it would be appropriate to metion that he is under investigation by the BBC/Discovery channel on the web page.  No conclusions should be drawn though 32.97.110.142 16:27, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To 131.191.64.130. Channel 4 is a UK television network. Hehe... Discovery Channel is channel 182 for me.
It is nearly old news that Man vs. Wild is being investigated and that elements may have been faked with admissions from Discovery and Channel 4.  Now it is time to unprotect this, refer to the reputable sources and describe the controversy.  I'm going to ask that it be unprotected for this purpose.  I think the protection was a little aggressive in the first place. Reboot 12:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Under investigation 

message: The section, which is over a page long, only has a single citation for one sentence. Andjam 13:54, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the show is fake enough that Discovery has pulled it and there have now been two show consultants who have come forward with exposes, and Discovery has confirmed most of what they said, I think it's only prudent to make sure that we're not posting bad information on Wikipedia as absolute truth just because a fake survival show host says so.  I'd be perfectly fine with either cutting this section or requiring references for the claims made.  -- Rei 18:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survival techniques section 

message: Yep, yet another expose on the show.  This time, it's the consultant from the Rockies ep.  Among the gems this time:
*Man in bear suit because they couldn't find a tame bear to stage the scene (including pics!).  The footage of him was cut except for him moving around in the shadows.  Discovery claims the bear suit was a prank and that it wasn't included, but had no comment when presented with the "dark black shape" moving in the background.
*The entire show was run based on a script.  That particular scene was "Scene 10 -  Grizzly Attacks Camp"
*The snake that Bear "killed" was found dead on the side of the road
*Bear didn't eat a badger; he ate steak that was put inside of a badger skin
*He didn't parachute into a tree; they hoisted him back up the tree, along with a climbing harness
Discovery has admitted to these things as elements that were "not natural to the environment" -- Rei 18:48, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well... I must admit that is pretty funny. I had always thought there was nothing out there what I saw the episode. I think producers should have pushed on to secure a deal involving a real bear, it would have bolstered the authenticity of the show I've seen Dave Salmoni's show on Discovery in which he was filming with a trained bear. Perhaps once the deal fell through the producers thought it was too coincidental for Bear to run into a rambunctious grizzly. It seems a lot of the things that people accuse Bear of faking take place either in this pilot episode, or on the desert island episode. Perhaps Discovery has tried terribly hard in Season 2 not to make the same mistakes, or at least not to make them so obvious. I look forward to season 3, in which Discovery has promised more 'transparency'. ;) -- 72.90.176.39 22:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The reason most of the things people raise are from the Rockies, Sierra Nevada, and Desert Island  are because the two survival consultants that have come forward so far represented the Rockies (Hood), Sierra Nevada (Weinert), and Desert Island (Weinert).  We have a sample size of three episodes of detailed, behind-the-scenes revelations.  ;) -- Rei 17:02, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  And another survival consultant comes forward 

message: It's already August 6 AND with some extra: 47 minutes. I thought this was supposed to be automatic.. --nlitement [talk] 00:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  August 6