Talk:Methamphetamine/Archive 1

message: Wikipedia should not be used for selfish political opinions. Please remove the content in the paragraph titled "Current Controversy". Drug abuse in the United States is a serious problem. The attack on the Bush adminstration in "Current Controversy" lowers the integrity of Wikipedia!
:It's POV to claim that drug abuse in the U.S. is a serious problem, or to imply that drug abuse in the U.S. is a problem that should be solved by government intervention. 64.105.253.69 06:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Current Controversy

message: Can someone please fix the spacing on the page, there's a large gap, clean 'er up.
:I assume you were refering to the one before the history section, which i've fixed.  the tag has been removed accordingly.   If this wasn't what you were talking about i apologize and you should pop that tag right back up there.  --Heah 22:49, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Spacing

message: There are many different recipes for conversion which can be found on the internet.
:This almost sounds like the author is instructing people to cook meth according to recipies found on the Internet. First of all, cooking methamphetamine is a VERY dangerous process, and one that can result in property and environmental damage, and potentially death. Second of all, as all ingredients involved in the production of methamphetamine, one mistake can be fatal. I would not trust my life or the lives of naive Wikipedians to a recipe taken from the Internet. Every person that I have ever met that has been involved in the production of methamphetamine has either been an expirienced chemist or has learned how firsthand from one. However, I am not encouraging or discouraging methamphetamine use or production, as that would represent a POV. But I do think we should emphasize the dangers of production and the importance of learning how from someone with expierience. DryGrain 12:50, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Directions?!?

message: The part about repetitive behavior should be expanded because that is a major part of meth's effects. The slang word for it is "tweaking".
- I was just at a meth workshop with the RCMP and "tweaking" is the behaviour when some is experiencing after a "crash" - basically someone, called a "tweaker", is having withdrawl symptoms.
:Maybe the slang is different in different parts of the country/world.  I have always been under the impression that "tweaking" occurs while the person is high on the drug, not during or after the crash.  Tweaking is recognizable because the user/addict stays up for days at a time, and does repetitive tasks, which can manifest as anything from vacuuming the house five times in a row to building multiple unfinished projects at a time.  After the crash, the person usually sleeps for days on end.  Upon awakening, the addict begins craving the drug again.
:--ZZYZX 10:03, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  repetitive behavior 

message: I don't know why the term "tina" redirects to here
Flora 02:44, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tina? 

message: I assumed "Able Laboraties" was a typo, as Abbott is a well know manufacturer of methamphetamine.  I am not sure if they produce a generic or just  Desoxyn. Osmodiar 10:41, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abbott 

message: From the the lead
Methamphetamine was first synthesized in 1919 in Japan by chemist A. Ogata.
From the History section
Methamphetamine was first synthesized in 1887 by German chemist L. Edeleano 
They can't both be first...
I can assure you with 100% confidence that A. Ogata was the first one to synthesize methamphetamine. L. Edeleano is the one who first synthesized Amphetamine (which he called phenylisopropylamine). I will delete L. Edeleano and add it to the AMPHETAMINE entry.
So, A. Ogata synthesized Methamphetamine in 1919, and L. Edeleano synthesized Amphetamine in 1887.
--Ddhix 2002 07:21, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inventor 

message: It does go by tina in the south east us... I have never heard christina. I guessed the origin however.
About the discovery date; I was discovered by a nazi scientist working for merck pharmaceuticals in 1887. METHADRINE was discovered in 1919 by the Japs. 
No wonder this encyclopedia is free.
:"a nazi scientist" ... "in 1887". Yup. That's correct. Maybe YOU aren't exactly the kind of person wo should complain about the inaccuracy of an encyclopedia. --84.172.218.27 13:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments on a couple of glances. 

message: imo this page should be broken into subpages, it's getting quite large which is no good for people who don't know about firefox . . .  but it's also just too long, it loses fluidity and just gives too much info- but all the info deserves to be here on the wikipedia.  It seems that much of the "production" section and the "effects and use" section can be split into subpages.  thoughts??  --Heah 02:26, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breaking up 

message: i've reorganized the page.  none of the info was removed, although some is no longer so in depth; the several paragraphs discussing rotting teeth were cut down, for instance, taking into consideration the lack of any clinical testing on the matter.  the "military use" section was removed as it was already covered in history; the brand name of the drug used during the war was merged into history, if someone is attached to to anything from the military use that was deleted i'd recomend they pop it back into the relevant place in the history section.   hopefully it is better organized and easier to read now, but as i said above, i think it should be split into sub articles.  --Heah 02:32, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  reorganization 

message: Near the end of the ==Production== section the article states "Hamilton police reported in 2003 of a case of a mobile meth lab" but I don't think it mintions where Hamilton is.  —TeknicTalk/Mail 19:39, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is Hamilton? 

message: I believe the article fails to mention hallucinations an an effect of the drug.  It talks about stimulant psychosis hallucinations and sleep deprivation hallucinations, but not acute hallucinations caused by hyperactivity in the visual cortex immediately upon consumption.  This is a pronounced primary effect of high doses.  —TeknicTalk/Mail 19:50, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide references for these neurological changes. Meth is known to be neurotoxic after chronic administration but that is very different from the classic withdrawl syndromes produced by opioids, benzodiazepines and ethyl alcohol. --Bk0 23:31, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  'Classic' withdrawal symptoms notwithstanding, It does not matter.  The therapeutic community is moving away from terms such as "physical" addiction because the addiction spectrum is entirely broad.  ℬastique▼talk 01:21, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Well, you've completely eradicated any hope of validity for any of your statements with your strikingly POV comment above.  Furthermore, do you check dates?  This debate is over a year old.  Start a new one at the bottom.  ℬastique▼parℓer♥voir♑ 21:44, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hallucinations 

message: User Bastique reverted edits by Googuse and myself incorrectly. I have since reverted his changes.
* The claim that homosexual men are more sexually promiscuous as a group is inflammatory POV that doesn't belong here. It is bigoted and incorrect. Googuse was justified in editing that preposterous claim out of the article.
* The use of dirty needles by IV drug users (which includes meth addicts) is a huge contributer to the spread of HIV and STDs. The title of the section is "Effects" and goes on to describe the factors that cause meth use to be associated with HIV/STD infection. Use of dirty needles is both relevant and informative. Do not edit that out again simply because you apparently want the article to focus on the alleged promiscuity of gay men.
--Bk0 23:28, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're gay then how are you qualified to comment on the sexual compulsion or lack thereof in heterosexuals on methamphetamine?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.11.195.197 (talk • contribs) 06:04, 14 March 2006  (UTC)
* I have re-edited the section.  The problem with sexual compulsion, which is not the same thing as promiscuity, has been amended to refer to gay and bisexual methamphetamine users.  I have removed dirty needles once again because it's not pertinent to this paragraph.  You can write a paragraph on HIV and Hepatitis C transmission if you like in which you discuss dirty needles.  The simple facts are:
* An inordinate amount of gay and bisexual men are using crystal meth.  
* They are experiencing a rise in HIV and STD transmission because of the "pig-sex" in which they participate while on it, and rarely from exchanging needles.  Most gay men who use crystal these days are smoking it.
* I can cite many articles if you would like, as well as the rise in outreach programs toward gay men about methamphetamine and sex.
* No amount of sugar coating and pretending the problem doesn't exist will make it go away.  
* Getting honest about it will make it go away.  I would like to see the problem go away, because I care about my community.  ℬastique▼talk 01:39, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homosexual promiscuity and the use of dirty needles 

message: I removed the following sentence: "It has been demonstrated clinically that methamphetamine use dries the mouth, and saliva combats tooth decay by washing bacteria off the teeth" for a couple of reasons.  It is true that as a sympothetic agonist, methamphetamine can cause xerostomia, and it is true that xerostomia can cause tooth decay, but the mechanism is not as simple as washing bacteria off the teeth.  It is also not clear that methamphetamine use causes periodontal disease by this mechanism.  We need to cite sources to include this statement.
:Agreed.  Besides, if dry mouth alone caused tooth decay, we would expect to see most marijuana smokers with rotting teeth.  The tooth decay thing is definitely associated with meth (and to a lesser degree, cocaine).  The etiology of this has always interested me.  To my knowledge, no one knows why it happens.
:--ZZYZX 00:10, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  saliva 

message: I just verified that Abbott Pharmaceuticals owns the patent for Desoxyn (not Ovation Pharma as listed in the article).  I'm going to change that.  For more info see this page:
http://www.drugs.com/PDR/Desoxyn_Tablets.html
Also, the wikipedia link Desoxyn states this.
--ZZYZX 04:34, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Desoxyn Tablets 

message: "and a prolonged depression, during which suicide is possible" (p. 1593 - ch. 195)."
Isn't suicide always possible?
--
Seems to be.--Ddhix 2002 03:49, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide isn't always possible? 

message: **NO COMMENT FROM POSTER**
---
How about instead of talking about (this is funny:) "ingridiants," we talk about chemicals and laboratory procedure? I mean, just considering the fact that methamphetamine is not a narcotic cocktail of drugs that make some 'super mutant drug stirred in a stock pot for 5 hours.' 
--Ddhix 2002 03:52, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ingridiants of meth 

message: Why are there two "Effects" sections? This article needs a complete cleanup. I'll start as soon as I get some time. Fuzzform 22:46, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Messy, messy 

message: The first county in which I have noticed the prosecution of meth 'cookers' for environmental offenses and child abuse relating to meth manufacture is Branch County, Michigan, which may not be the first. I cannot state that sentences of persons convicted of drug manufacture and either environmental offenses or child abuse/endangerment will serve terms consecutively as convicted and sentenced; sentences could be appealed and reversed. 
I did not mention the jurisdiction in the because the community is relatively small, because I do not seek to give free political endorsements to any elected officials, and because I have no desire to claim that the county is first to do so or that the practice is limited to that county or to Michigan. I refuse to speculate on the spread of the practice to other jurisdictions because of the limitation of my knowledge on the matter.
Persons have been convicted of environmental crimes, child abuse or endangerment, and theft of anhydrous ammonia, in addition to the manufacture of meth.
--66.231.41.57 07:15, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legality 

message: Shouldn't the current military application of this substance be included in this article? I don't have the sources on hand to add the information myself, but my understanding is that methamphetamine is still used regularly (at least by the American military) by pilots and certain ground units for increased productivity in the field. It might be worth mentioning. --Matthew Cohen (Tccmod: user / talk / contribs) 12:15, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Military Use

message: i read (albeit in the rotten library) that there is something of a meth epidemic amongst gays. does anyone have any references for this?Joeyramoney 03:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: this is true. I believe mainly because of its stimulatory effects on the sex drive. Don't have any references for it, though. I do know that they like to mix it with viagra, as well.--Ddhix 2002 06:08, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I haven't heard of any reports that meth has become an "epidemic" among the gay population. If you've heard of any of this in the news media or elsewhere, please provide the link or reference. You might be confusing methamphetamine with the popular MDMA (also known as ecstacy or XTC). Both drugs are CNS stimulants, and MDMA especially, has a strong stimulant effect on the sex drive, both for gay and straight people. In other words, it's commonly used regardless of sexuality. You should also avoid confusing the term "gay" with "addicted to sex." Dr. Cash 04:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

text: There has been a good deal of attention in the media to the "gay meth epidemic"  but many gay activists have countered that it's sensationalist and stereotypical.  In truth few studies have been done, and while research does show meth has "infiltrated" many gay subcultures, little hard evidence points to it being disproportionate.  However since the gay community has "reformed" due to the HIV crisis, I would argue that better, proactive education is responsible for the visibility.  Heterosexuals don't have as structured a system in place for recognizing and eliminating social crises.  There are no "straight meth support groups."  There are no "straight" support organizations dedicated to eliminating STDs and unsafe behavior in "their" community.  I don't mean to make this an "us vs. them" but point out that because there is a "community," there is a "crisis."  Further, saying gays are more likely to tweak is akin to saying gays are more likely to be pedophiles.  In the absence of evidence, the statement becomes inherently homophobic.  Rainman420 20:58, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  gay community 

message: Anyone looking for citations (regarding the US) should poke around the Des Moines Register and other Midwest newspapers, the Register in particular has run many different series on these issues (including a recent article about meth mouth).  California may have been the Meth capital in 1986 but today, it's the Midwest.  Many state laws have been passed restricting pseudoephedrine, so the thousands of meth labs are starting to give way to an explosion of trafficked crystal meth, apparently bringing a surge of heroin traffic with it.  (She swallowed the spider to catch the fly)   Rainman420 20:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good citation source

message: Some of the information in the addiction section doesn't seem very clear.
For example, "Former users have noted that they feel stupid or dull when they quit using methamphetamine. This is because the brain is adapting a need for methamphetamine to think faster, or at what seems to be a higher level"
That last sentence doesn't make any sense. Also needs a reference to back it.
Also, "With long-term methamphetamine use, enough dopamine will have flooded the brain to cause chemical cell damage".
Surely this needs a reference too. I've heard of glutamate causing cell damage through excitotoxicity, but dopamine??
83.245.88.120 21:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-write? 

message: Hi, I'd tried to rewrite a section relate to Japan, but my English is quite limited. So could someone help to rewrite an article?
My suggestion is about Japanese streetname of the drug. 'Shabu' is a street name which is used by Yakuza, that name was not popular before ban of the drug. Before methamphetamine ban, 'Philopon' (ヒロポン) was the most popular name. 'Philopon' is a trademark of Dainippon Sumitomo Pharma (http://www.ds-pharma.co.jp/), former Dainippon Pharma (大日本製薬). And there are ads of Philopon which was sold over the counter (http://www.warbirds.jp/heiki/42000.htm).
Methamphetamine is the still number one illigal hard drug in Japan. Most common street name is 'speed' or 'S', and usually used by smoking. Methamphetamine regulation is very strict and difficult to use for medical purpose. (ADHD is treated with methylphenidate.) --Blooms 12:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Japan

message: ----
Are you sure meth is called speed, because they are two totally different substances..
--193.190.88.130 14:39, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Speed" is a common street name for methamphetamine hydrochloride. And um, no, there shouldn't be tips. Lets leave that for TOTSE and WetDreams. This isn't an underground "cooker" site.--Ddhix 2002 06:39, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should there be tips on how to make good quality meth - less impurities. Impurities are dangerous you know