Talk:Lebanese Arabic

message: Can we perhaps agree on the following? 
1. Lebanese is not a language out on its own, but part of the Syrian/Lebanese/Palestinian continuum.
2. This language, in all its forms, is strongly Arabic in grammar and vocabulary, but is formed round an Aramaic substrate; just as French is largely Latin in grammar and vocabulary, but was formed round a Celtic substrate. This is common to the whole group and is not something peculiar to Lebanon.
well lebanese is a dialect not a language, so is Syrian and Palestinian, it is important stress on  the different dialects because even thought they might sound similar there are some differences in basic syntax, words , and pronunciation.
We should also keep in mind that Lebanese Arabic , is influenced also by Syriac especially within the christian populations and to some extent the Muslim population.
Also there are some basic differences within the Lebanese dialect, Muslim Lebanese dialect is a bit more influenced by fosha ( or is it Fusha is english) , and christian Lebanese Arabic is less influenced and seem closer to a language.
also dialects change significantly from region to another in lebanon. 
Hence it might be tempting to consider Lebanese Arabic a language in its own right. Also it might be tempting to merge into a single Lebanese-Syrian-Palestinian Arabic but is more fitting to consider Lebanese dialect as a dialect and keep the current article and an article for Syrian but its important to site differences and similarities.
( and as a side note Palestinian is also heavenly influenced by Jordanian and is closer to Jordanian then to Syrian-Lebanese especially in the west bank, but Palestinian refugees of 1948 from what is now northern Israel is close to southern Lebanese)
---jadraad] 10:57,March 9 2011  —Preceding undated comment added 20:57, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: To sum up

message: I think that there should be something in this article about the many French words that are substituted for Arabic words by the Lebanese.
e.g. nobody says toilet in Arabic, they say 'toilette', and they say 'merci' instead of thank you in Arabic.
211.30.104.199 02:53, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: French

message: I have made a few minor edits to explain a bit of the controversy between Lebanese as a distinct language, vs. as a dialect of Arabic.  I don't want to promote or dispute either side, because I know that such controversy will not convince either side, either way.  However, for the sake of the article, I feel that we should explain the controversy in unbiased terms so outsiders who are unfamiliar with Lebanon and/or the Arab world can understand it. Nimur 21:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Few minor edits: explanations 

message: Most references to so-called "classical" arabic in this article are incorrect.  The author(s) is confused between Standard Arabic (MSA or Fusha) and Classical Arabic, which is found in the Qur'an.
:The difference or lack there of tends to have much to do with geography. In the west a differentiation is made, in arabic speaking countries they're one in the same. Aside from some minor grammatical changes made in the 11th and 12th centuries as well as newly introduced vocabulary, they are more or less the same. Al-Fusha also refers to both MSA and Classical Arabic not just one or the other.179.12.158.42 (talk) 11:13, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification on "Standard" vs "Classical" Arabic 

message: I removed some external links that I felt were not appropriate. One of the links was an ordering page where one would buy learning materials. Others were not informative or advocated a minority opinion (that Lebanese is not an Arabic dialect).-Falastine fee Qalby (talk) 20:25, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: What are the artistic values mentioned at the bottom of the last sentence at Lebanese Arabic#Examples. I want to know and understand, what is so artistic in pronouncing  instead of ? --Mahmudmasri (talk) 18:57, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Artistic values 

message: Hello, everyone,
I'm going to translate this article and expand on it for the Russian Wikipedia. It seems there's no Arabic name for the dialect in neither of the several different-language Wiki editions. Arabic edition says لهجات لبنان, is that the only name?
Could someone please write the name of the dialect in Standard Arabic as well as in the dialect itself (what do the Lebanese call their language?). Transcription for the Lebanese name would be good to have too. Thanks a lot in advance. Zumrasha (talk) 07:47, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is the name of the dialect in Arabic? 

message: I will give the editors of "Lebanese Arabic" one month to explain what "Lebanese arabic" is and use reliable sources to stabilize the article, then I will start by first editing the name of the article and then use more verified content.
Wikipedia articles should be based on scientific/historical facts built upon reliable and verified sources. Not wishful thinking or legends used within minorities of diffrent religions and ethnicities. Nor should it be based on political conviction. 
The arabic language is one language, then there is diffrent accents with unique differentiation (sometimes, not always) from the pre-arabic history. Also the constitution of respective country should be put in consideration.
And please dont use; in lebanese we say "toilette" or "sofa/kanaba" or "merci" and so on, to proof a point. As this makes an editor seems idiotic (im sorry) for obvious reasons!  Kamah12aa (talk) 22:16, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  lebanese arabic? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Lebanese Arabic. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120324012810/http://www.decotype.com/publications/1981_RNLA-Arabic/RNLA_Lebanese_Arabic_Manual.pdf to http://www.decotype.com/publications/1981_RNLA-Arabic/RNLA_Lebanese_Arabic_Manual.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:55, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I believe that there are WAY too many 'dialects' of Lebanese Arabic in this page. These variations are better discribed as rural/urban accents or merely as variations instead of the common-but-innacurate use 'dialect' for them. Mark Enlightenment (talk) 04:05, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: While I agree with you on the fact that the word "dialect" is a bit too excessive, both Ethnologue and Glottolog list them as such. Of course, today most Lebanese people speak the same dialect with some accent differences based on the region, however the listed dialects don't just refer to accent differences but also to grammatical differences (such as the use of the suffix "-ish" as a negative, which is specific to certain dialects). Nehme1499 (talk) 11:42, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dialects OF Lebanese Arabic 

message: Just to put here that the theory that Lebanese "descends" from classical Arabic has been debunked by Ahmad Al-Jallad and othershttps://www.academia.edu/38100372/Al-Jallad._A_Manual_of_the_Historical_Grammar_of_Arabic. Same with other vernaculars. My mentions in the text have been reverted. I misplaced my Wiki password and am editing from IP.185.42.34.46 (talk) 07:09, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Jallad is just one of a few people who believe that. All valid linguists are of the idea that Lebanese is indeed a variety of Arabic. Not only that, but also most reliable linguistic codes (such as IPA and Glottolog) list "Lebanese" as "a member of the macrolanguage Arabic". Changing "Lebanese Arabic is descended from the Old Arabic" to "...is assumed to descend from...", as well as phrases like "However modern research has debunked the idea of descendece from Peninsular Arabic dialects, such as work by Ahmad Al-Jallad" makes it seem as if Al-Jallad had absolute authority over the status of Lebanese Arabic. I want to make clear that I am very much not a pan Arab, however I do believe that we should stick to research by more authoritative linguists. Nehme1499 (talk) 14:55, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: From Al-Jallad's Manual of the Historical Grammar of Arabic (p. 33): The story of the modern dialects is one of contact and convergence. The spread of  Arabic did not happen only one time during the initial Arab Conquests of the 7th century. The first dialects implanted during this period lie buried under waves of later  Arabics, all converging in different ways with each other. Ancient forms of Arabic, such as those attested in the northern Old Arabic dialect continuum and Old Ḥigāzī mix with later innovations that emerged in the medieval period. In addition to this, Classical  Arabic casts its distinct shadow over this process for over a millennium, and influenced the development of the dialects just as much as it did other Islamicate languages. While the effects of Classical Arabic on, say, Persian are rather obvious, it is sometimes more difficult to distinguish intrusions from the literary language in the modern dialects, except for the latest phase of contact where such loans tend to have distinct phonological characteristicsJadhimah (talk) 06:41, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

text:  "Lebanese does not descend from Classical Arabic" is not incompatible with "Lebanese is a variety of Arabic", both being facts. Valid (+historical+Arabist+etc.) linguists also understand that our textbook standard of Classical Arabic is a sister evolution to today's Arabics rather than an ancestor to them, and Al-Jallad isn't unconventional or a lone wolf in this respect. This doesn't relate specifically to the edits in question, though. M. I. Wright (talk) 23:12, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Al-Jallad's Research 

message: Levantine Arabic has been nominated for FAC. Any feedback would be more than welcome :) A455bcd9 (talk) 14:57, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Levantine Arabic FAC