Talk:Yoko Kanno/Archive 1

message: Isn't Yoko Kanno a keyboard player, also?
I'd think that all composers are capable of using a keyboard.
Yep, Yoko Kanno knows her way around a keyboard, and I have added this.  For what it's worth, her husband is primarily a cellist, although he's also an active composer; it's not clear whether he can play piano.--ByrnedHead 10:38, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: In fitting in with their referring to the series, as a genre, as "Space Jazz," the genre of its soundtrack's music is Jazz.  Not Bebop.  I think there's a difference, but I'm not very familiar with Bebop as a genre.  MasterXiam 05:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bebop is a subset of jazz, and there is some bebop in the Cowboy Bebop soundtrack, but the soundtrack also includes some classical, neo classical, zydeco, world music, retro pop and rock.  And I'm sure I've forgotten something.  Several somethings. Canonblack 17:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keyboard 

message: Criticism of Yoko Kanno for plagiarizing other composers'/songwriters' works has been rather wide-spread for a while now. The article should perhaps grow a subsection that deals with this topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.61.133.21 (talk • contribs) 
:Can you attribute such criticism to a reliable source? If so, it can be mentioned in the article. (Please read the link on attribution if you're unsure about what qualifies.) rspeer / ɹəədsɹ  00:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately not. There's plenty of obvious evidence around however, (for instance see http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3128 for a list of titles and examples). I encourage everyone to go hunting for attributable sources (japanese publications are probably the most promising places to look). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.61.139.139 (talk) 13:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well... I do not think Wikipedia takes message board threads as sources. I my self a few hours ago tried looking for a source in English online, but I could not find one and this is the first time I have ever heard of her plagiarising. Alus 17:22, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just looked at that message board thread. Many of the claims are clearly spurious -- "Call Me Call Me", for example, is definitely not "Bittersweet Symphony" -- and others are referring to classical pieces long out of copyright, where the references are most likely intentional. Not that this has any place in the Wikipedia article, anyway. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ  16:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that "Call Me Call Me" doesn't sound like Bittersweet Symphony. It does, though, sound a whole lot like Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls. And if you disregard that Bittersweet Symphony snafu, all the other ones are quite similar. I found out about this issue by hearing her song Cyberbird from Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex - it sounds very, very much like Battersea by Hooverphonic. JeffreyAtW 05:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? No, it's not plagiarized from Iris either. You might as well claim that Bittersweet Symphony plagiarized Iris. The songs I'm familiar with on that list have really tenuous connections -- another example is that "PAPA Plastic" is not plagiarizing "Come Together", unless the Beatles have a monopoly on the idea of a blues riff -- which makes me conclude that this doesn't amount to anything more than "OMG Yoko Kanno writes soundtracks in the style of popular/alternative music!" rspeer / ɹəədsɹ  08:05, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All right - ignore the ones written in the first post. But do listen to the 30-second samples listed in the following posts - especially Battersea/Cyberbird on the second page. I don't think this is enough to cry plagiarism - but the article might benefit from the mention that a vast amount of Kanno's work is intentionally derivative. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JeffreyAtW (talk • contribs) 08:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism 

message: Is there any info on her speaking English or other languages? L337p4wn 03:41, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Languages? 

message: Yoko Kanno in included in :Category:Cardcaptor Sakura, :Category:Cowboy Bebop, :Category:Ghost in the Shell, :Category:RahXephon, :Category:The Vision of Escaflowne ; could also be in :Category:Wolf's Rain.
It could be better to have a category like :Category:Anime whom music was composed by Yoko Kanno (with a better name if possible), or even :Category:Works of Yoko Kanno, what do you think ? Jean-FrédéricFr 15:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories 

message: Anyone have any information about the project she worked on? 
Jeffrywith1e 05:57, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Creation 

message: According to the IMDB she is in fact Gabriel Robin http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437819/
"Escaflowne (2000/II) (lyricist: "Sora") (as Gabriela Robin) "
Perhaps this should be changed beyond speculation.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.225.241.56 (talk • contribs) 15:07, 16 April 2006
:: Note - imdb is not a reliable source. It features user generated content like wikipedia, and cannot be used to source something as fact AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 16:53, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gabriel Robin 

message: Can we get some images of her in the article? You know, as a reference since she's described as having Edward from Cowboy Bebop based off of her? ForestAngel (talk) 19:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we would need a picture someone has taken of her that they will release under a free license. (Wikipedia generally doesn't allow copyrighted pictures of living people.) I just searched on Flickr and couldn't find any. Maybe there's a Wikipedian out there who's gotten a picture of her at an anime convention... rspeer / ɹəədsɹ  19:51, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: lastFM have some images on her, but are they acceptable? --Boggah (talk) 00:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pics? 

message: This article mentions Kanno had some formal training at the Conservatoire de Paris and Waseda University in Japan.
http://nippop.com/artist/artist_id-133/artist_name-yoko_kanno/
It's unclear if she was studying composition or piano performance (or something else?) but it's probably something that should be mentioned in her biography if we can get a confirmation.  Did she graduate with a degree in anything?  Who did she study with?  Is this information private and thus unattainable? Streichorchester (talk) 02:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mention of formal study? 

message: hi, I don't feel qualified to edit this myself but "Composer for all tracks, two tracks composed with Alexander Borodin" in the pop music / Maaya Sakamoto section doesn't seem the best description, since Borodin has been dead for over a hundred years and Kanno simply took some of the melody from his Polovtsian Dances. can someone fix that up to normal standards?
-mayu.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.71.96.254 (talk) 08:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Probably someone just had no idea who Borodin was. Feel free to be bold and fix such things yourself next time. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 11:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistake 

message: Why is it that nobody dares call her out on it? Seriously, anyone with ears and any knowledge of music would know that she copied entire songs note for note without EVER giving original composers any credit. People were sued for far less. This is ridiculous.
And don't give me any of this impossible to prove bs. Plagarism is a *very* provable thing. Take a listen to Sting's "La Belle De sans Regrets" and compare it to Kanno's (and I use that loosely) "Words that We Couldn't Say". Concentrate on that guitar section and tell me it's not taken from Sting note for note. The extent to which she relies on other people's work is staggering. Literally over a hundred of her tracks can easily be treaced back to other people. Which would be fine, if she ever gave proper credit. Kanno truly has no shame and her "fans" are really rather blind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.11.176 (talk • contribs) 
:Great. Write it up in a RS and then get back to us. --Gwern  (contribs) 00:35 14 February 2011 (GMT)
::Thing is, do we actually need a source beyond the two pieces of music? The above-mentioned "Une Heroine" and "Cloud's Rain" are practically note for note identical (allowing for transposition to suit a female vocal register in Kanno's version). That reality is not subject to being disproven, argued with, or in any other way invalidated. If, for instance, we had a recording of someone talking about the fact that it's plagiarism, that would be valid. A simple comparative recording of the actual tracks is therefore just as valid as a demonstration of the point.
I hate to be a rules lawyer here but I think the RS guidelines are being overinterpreted as "you must find it in a book", which is not what the rules say. I suspect people will also try to argue that this is synthesis; there is, in my view, a clear dividing line between that and what I'm proposing; otherwise, every use of (say) an image to support something would also be synthesis.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.85.186.1 (talk) 16:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again, there's a couple of issues here. First and foremost, anything potentially damaging to a living person must be completely sourced per BLP regulations. Second, while it the similarity may be observable, you can't prove intent, so unless there's been some sort of actual issue with it (say a lawsuit or at least someone notable directly accusing her of it) calling it actual plagiarism cannot be done. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 18:12, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not really about intent; the article can reasonably state that two pieces of music are similar, providing short sections to illustrate the similarity, without claiming that the similarity is intentional. I'm anxious that we don't get sidetracked by the need to find someone talking about this in print; two pieces of music with identical melodies (which certainly exist) are as reliable a source as wikipedia policy requires. It doesn't say it has to be print journalism.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.152.164.229 (talk) 21:32, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, not really. Without a secondary source it's pretty much the definition of |original research. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 22:05, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm slightly concerned that this is becoming an unscratchable itch. I've indicated that sources for this are readily available because the music itself is perfectly acceptable as a source; that being the case you are now attempting to require a "secondary source". If we find a way to satisfy that, will you immediately require a "tertiary source?" Is there any end to this?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.84.76.180 (talk) 00:36, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, let's put it a different way. You COULD, in an article, point out similar or same phrases as long as there's no personal analysis on them (as was just mentioned elsewhere, as long as a trained musician could easily recognize something as a fact, it's fair game)..but putting them on a BLP article might tread the line of still being an accusation. So consider this -- where in this article, as it stands now, would you add what you describe? How would you phrase it? How many examples? What context of what we have now would it fit in without seeming like it's shoehorned in to damn her? See the issues here? If the plagiarism is so damn blatant (and in fact I'd agree it's really pretty close at times) then, considering she IS such a popular composer then surely there should be some source that talks about it, even if it's some obscure Japanese article -- or even a professional CD review site. But we need such a source because ANYTHING that can potentially harm a living person must be kept out of the article (read [[WP:BLP for full details). A few fanboy forum postings doesn't constitute reliable sources. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 14:20, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not even a NOTE about her BLATANT plagarism??? 

message: People setting her birth date to May, please stop. The only source that supports May is an article in a gaming site linked from the Japanese version of the article… that's hardly authoritative, and could even be a typo. The English article links to a number of sources that unanimously say March; which is, in fact, the correct date, as you'd know if you were following Japanese anime-related media last month, when a big fuss was made about her birthday. Also, google agrees; feel free to dig there for an acceptable reference — as far as I'm concerned IMDB (already linked in the article) works.--Lalo Martins (talk) 01:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have found a definitive source that shows her birth date is March 18th. The profile page on the official website of TETSU100%, a band which Kanno has been a part of for over a decade. The page appears to have gone up somewhat recently and even has things that you won't be able to find elsewhere like her blood type, the city she was born in, and a picture of her signature. There does not appear to be a  definitive source for her birth year and so I removed it. Since all of the websites referenced here state she was born on March 19th, which is incorrect, they can't be trusted for her birth year. Thenextday (talk) 21:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  According to the French wiki for Youko Kanno, her birth year in 1964. They don't give any comment from where they took this information however.Liclic (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 05:19, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth date 

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