Talk:Planescape

message: This page needs major rewrites. If anyone stumbles upon this page please help me out here.
204.210.16.56
Also: You're missing the Audio CD and it's accompanying Accessory (The Player's Primer to the Outlands [2610]) 75.92.217.27 (talk) 01:28, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's there under Boxed sets. 24.12.74.21 (talk) 02:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrites

message: Ok people who actually edit this page, there needs to be some kind of precedent for the Outer Plane pages. What's going to be the precedent here? (Outer Plane)? (fictional land)? disambig. pages? response requested. Shoecream 07:28, Mar 28, 2004 (UTC)
:(Outer Plane) seems fine to me.  (fictional land) is too ambiguous - I can think of at least three other fictional Elysiums off the top of my head. -Sean 19:19, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, it seems counterproductive to disambiguate places that aren't actually ambiguous - I'm not aware of any other Baators or Mount Celestias, and neither is Google. -Sean 19:21, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: Now using Planename (plane) when necessary, otherwise just the name of the plane. ··gracefool |☺ 07:26, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outer planes 

message: This isn't the current state of the PS campaign setting, at least w/r/t the factions, but most people play in pre-FW PS. Should this be updated? taion 09:38, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know enough to write it myself, but we can have a paragraph about the faction war, then the current list of factions, and then a list of factions which ceased to exist after FW. Ausir 11:16, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: I've added a section on the fates of the factions post-FW with information from Dragon #315.--Filby 19:04, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post faction-war PS 

message: I'd like to make some sort of box for the Planescape articles, see History of the United States and Boldog for examples. What do you guys think? Should I do a footer box (like the boldog one) or vertical box? Should I even make one? Sepearate ones for the Outer Planes? I'd appreciate all kinds of discussion about this topic here. —Shoecream 04:02, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
:I was thinking of inserting a quick info box, like the one of the page for Everway, that way basic information is easy accessible. Don't want to distract from the topic, but I do think the two ideas are related. VidGa 07:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article series box 

message: The following information from page 13 and 14 of the Spelljammer book "The Complete Spacefarer's Handbook" may help with any comments about Athas and Ravenloft.
:Athas: "The world of the Dark Sun campaign is not on the spacelanes where Realmspace, Krynnspace and Greyspace can be found."
:"The current inhabitants have no knowledge of spelljamming. There is no way to know whether the closely guarded library of some sorcerer king concelas an anchient tome revealing the basic concepts of wildspace."
This suggests that spacefarers don't know how to get to Athas and no Athasians know how to get into wildspace, but doesn't say that it is impossible. Similar logic must apply to Planescape - Athas would probably be a place that you can't easily find. Dark Sun must be mentioned somewhere. You need to hunt for a reference in one of its products. Why not try to Planescape mailing list? They might be able to help.
:Ravenloft: ..."Ravenloft lies within no crystal sphere. It cannont be reached by travelling through the phologiston. A spelljamming ship sailing into Ravenloft's night soon enters the mist at the border of the demiplane and is quickly turned back."
:"Although spelljammming provides no escape from Ravenloft, outside spelljammers are not safe from the Demiplane of Dread. The mists of Ravenloft can appear even in wildspace."..."Only in the phlogiston, which blocks all planar travel, can one remain safe from the reaching tentacles of the Demiplane of Dread.
This means that all of the (prime) material plane (except the phlogiston) can be connected to Ravenloft. I can see how upper and lower planes might have special relationships which block or aid into Ravenloft, but can't see why the transitive planes would block travel. Again the Planescape mailing list may help you find a reference in one of your books. Any travel into Ravenloft would be one way travel, so I wouldn't expect planewalkers to have much knowledge of the plane.
As for Spelljammer and Planescape, you might want to refer to the Pirates of Gith. These creatures live on the Astral Plane and make raids into the wildspace of the (prime) material plane. They are always eager to steal the living ships of the Elven Navy as they have the ability to planeshift the entire ship into the astral plane. Spelljammer also features organisations called Planar Churches (which would seem to be Planewalker friendly), however as Spelljammer predates Planescape no proper connection with Planewalking organisations on those planes was made in a SJ product. You might be able to find references to the Planar Churches in Planescape documents.
Good luck! Big Mac 22:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Athas, Ravenloft and Spelljammer

message: Just editing out some links that just redirect to this page. Kind of pointless to have them redirect to themselves. Whispering 02:54, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing links 

message: Does anyone know where there is any information on the Cant? It's a pretty essential part of the setting.--69.166.45.32 23:37, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cant 

message: Maybe a picture of the Planescape universe should be added?
I have a picture, but it is a scan from the 2nd edition AD&D DMG. Does that violate wikipedia copyright restrictions, even if it is properly credited? Swiftbow 06:33, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures ? 

message: Just for clarification. The concept of the Multiverse in D&D is different to the fictional concept of Parallel Universes. The intention behind a multiverse in D&D is that each DM can have his own universe, allowing him to have any aspect desired in there without infringing upon the worlds of someone else. In this context they are not necessarily "Parallel" to each other (ie they dont have to be similar at all) while it is not excluded. A prime example of this is the Dark Sun setting which is said to be in a different universe to the Forgotten Realms. If the term "multiverse" was described using the Parallel Universes theory then it would indicate that a "similar" world such as Athas would exist in the Forgotten Realms setting. This is not the case and neither universe is known to overlap at all. Enigmatical 05:02, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: From all of the material I've read, the world of Athas uses many unique demi-planes and pocket dimensions instead of the basic 'inner planes' common to most prime material worlds, which controls it's particular worlds functions instead of said inner planes. i.e. it is cut off from the outerplanes of planescape but still part of the cosmology of the material planes. The dead go to their own immediately surrounding area instead of the outerplanes etc, but it isn't a "separate universe", it is simply cut off from the astral plane that binds the rest of the multiverse together by a plane known as "the black". So it is squarely in the multiverse setting, and not a parallel universe. I believe it's called the D&D 'multiverse' instead of 'universe' because it has many separate "infinite" realms, e.g. each infinite self-contained universes in themselves, but multiple. 67.5.147.229 22:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I recall, Planescape's explanation is that despite the Athasian's thinking their Inner Planes are different, it is really the Planescape cosmology inner planes being called by the Athasian names.  I think this is explained in the Ruvoka monster description in both the Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium II: Terrors Beyond Tyr and the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix III.  The other idea I recall is that perhaps Athas's paraelemental planes are different, and again this may relate to the "Athasian idea" vs "Planescape cosmology" idea.  Bear Eagleson 16:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I know the dragonlance campaign setting is this way, (i.e. all of the lower planes are referred to as "The Abyss", i.e. Baator, The Grey Waste, etc, are all considered simply part of The Abyss.) Though from what I read of Darksun; the planes there actually work quite different, at least according to the "perservers & defilers" book that I once owned, and they don't know of the 'outerplanes' at all, all of the dead from Athas can't get beyond 'the black' just as astral travellers can't. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that there're no gods in Athas, I believe it was mentioned that there were once gods, only they abandoned it. So no divine powers to worship to make the bridge out to the astral and the outerplanes, either that or 'the black' was a barrier set up by the gods so that the champions of Raajat, had they succeded, couldn't rampage the multiverse. 67.5.159.38 02:32, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multiverse <> Parallel Universes 

message: Is it worth noting that Baldur's Gate II and its expansion have some references to the Planescape setting?
: It may be worth a minor note in the section which talks about torment. Enigmatical 01:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baldur's Gate II 

message: "As its name suggests, [...], as originally developed in the Manual of the Planes by Jeff Grubb." Planescape existed during D&D 2e, well before the Manual of the Plane (unless the first edition of the book is refered, which should be mentionned, then, because the links is to the a page that only mentions briefly a previous Manual of the Planes.). This statement strikes me as a little odd.
Lunargent 16:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction imprecision? 

message: Should the article mention this petition with 3K signatures?
http://www.petition online.com/ps35esns/petition.html
Mathiastck 22:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  petition 

message: This article feels like it's missing some things.  
*The most glaring omission is that there is no mention whatsoever of the Cant, which was a HUGE part of 2e Planescape.  
*It should also be mentioned that 2e Planescape had a strong focus on philosophy, which was unusual for an official D&D Campaign World.  The Factions and the very nature of Sigil were based on personal philosophies, and many of the well-fleshed-out supporting characters were personified philosophical quandaries.  I'm not sure how to say that without original research, maybe someone can find a reference?
*It should be mentioned that the Planescape cosmology is still present in the modern (3-3.5) published material, though it is only vaguely similar in its post-Faction War state, and without the recognizable art and writing styles or the philosophical bent.
*I read a lengthy interview somewhere stating that the original designers were not terribly happy with the Faction War supplement and the way it essentially castrated the campaign world.  I believe they said that it was not meant to be the end, but that the line was dropped before they could follow up, but that may be my poor memory at work.  If a reference can be found, I feel this is worth a mention.
--Daeval (talk) 21:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Pen and paper? 67.175.176.178 (talk) 03:59, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Bits 

message: i had to edit another posters post about a petition above to get this page to save. it seems the site in question if blocked from being added to pages and prevents pages from being edited with it in them. i didn't delete the link entirely, but changed it. shadzar-talk 15:37, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: spamfilter

message: * The subject appears to be close to borderline notable.  A lot of the content is in-universe, lacking real-world perspective, let alone sourced to independent reliable references.  The sections “Factions”, “Sects” and “Rules” are particularly lacking here.  However, I would guess that sufficently independent sources surely exist, and I would refer interested contributors to WP:WAF rather than WP:N or WP:AFD.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Third opinion requested

message: Okay, so a couple editors are complaining about self-promotion and COI (conflict of interest?). As far as an edit war, the revisions past the first weren't from my computer.
I do believe the link is relevant in any case, as one of the edits said, it is the only active Planescape related comic, with support from a large number of Planescape fans, niche market though they may be. I am well aware of the notability, no collection of links, etc. issues on wikipedia, but I don't think they apply in this case. I haven't wantonly posted it on the webcomic list page, for example, even though I think it is very close to meeting the notability guidelines.
In any case, I think the justification lies heavily in the fact that people navigating to this page are looking for information on the Planescape topic, which can be rather limited at best. Do not external links exist expressly for the purpose of providing further reading to users beyond the scope of wikipedia? Hell, a previous user even trimmed the Unity of Rings comic (a one-shot story), a completely official publication of TSR.
Anyway, I'm going to leave the external links alone while I wait for a response, but I think the rampant trimming of the external links needs just as much justification as me wanting it there, author of the comic or no.
Swiftbow (talk) 06:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Planescape Comic 

message: "Published material" section states that the setting "has since been updated in the 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes, the 3.5 Edition Dungeon Master's Guide, and the Planar Handbook in 2004". It's only partially true. The new materials were not a part of the Planescape line, which no longer existed at this point. It's writing style was also different and some concepts (like relations between the Etheral Plane and the Inner Planes) were changed. It probably should be considered as derivative work, not as a part of the setting. --79.189.158.98 (talk) 23:00, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed; that does need to be rewritten to more accurately reflect reality. 108.69.80.49 (talk) 00:02, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manual of the Planes and other 3e sourcebooks 

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thread_title:  External links modified