Talk:Raven banner

message: Someone keeps reverting Huginn and Muninn to the oblique forms Hugin and Munin, there is no reason to use an oblique form over the nominative. BodvarBjarki (talk) 07:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Huginn and Muninn

message: The raven is also found in the coat of arms of Shetland. In the sail if the longship.Inge 10:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: With the Bayeux tapestry, it certainly seems that the broken standard belongs to Godwinsson's army... but is it his banner, or the one captured from Harald Hardrada? Display of an enemy's captured standards was a common custom in antiquity. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 17:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coat of arms with raven 

message: This Vendel era helmet has a noseguard in the form of a raven:--Berig 15:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Another artifact with raven imagery

message: This is close to good, but there are some problems that need to be resolved first (in no particular order):
* The first paragraph need sourcing for the "Scholars conjecture" in the first paragraph. While I don't doubt that the statement is true, it is presently unverifable. The quote from Bodvarsdottir doesn't quite say the same thing. [Added later, plus she is a single scholar, so she alone cannot count as prima facie evidence of multiple scholars +Fenevad 20:31, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Criticizing Hjelmquist as a source because it is old seems both prejudiced and absurd to me since he does not talk of theories, which may be outdated, but of instances in primary sources, something which is never outdated. We could just as well skip the citations of Hjelmquist then, and cite the primary sources directly.--Berig 20:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't assume bad faith here by calling me "prejudiced" and my comment "absurd". A request was made for GA review, and I am providing that. I was very clear that I liked the article. If I was prejudiced I would have done a lot more to this article than what I suggested. First off, I did not criticize Hjelmquist as a source. He may be perfectly fine, and I admitted that I did not know his work. The Swedish title alone does not inform me of what is in the source. It is, however, a secondary source, and the point was that the secondary sources cited here are quite old. They may be fine and good sources, but some of them do require more critical attention (like Grimm's work)...
+Fenevad 20:31, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not calling you prejudiced, but the assumption, and I know that you referred to general complaints. Hjelmquist's book is just one of those 19th century works of scholarship that are useful because they are descriptive. We are not talking of a work on phrenology or psychology, but a work that describes how nature is presented in Old Norse poetry. There is not anything modern scholarship can add or change, as the corpus is largely unchanged.--Berig 20:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems we are really talking at cross purposes here. I meant no questioning or disrespect of Hjelmquist at all. Your explanation clarifies the point. It doesn't need to be changed. Quite frankly, when I mentioned him, I looked only at the date of the references in general, not at the specific use. -Fenevad 20:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I know and I want to be clear that when I said "prejudiced and absurd" I thought of the general attitude you find among many who consider 19th century works of scholarship outdated (and which I assumed that you referred to as a possible objection). Like modern works, they need to be read with a critical eye on the POVs involved. Moreover some old works are timeless (e.g. those of Darwin and Saussure) and especially descriptive ones.--Berig 20:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

text: At first glance, it looks good. I'll go through it in more detail later. I see a few minor formatting issues that weren't addressed, but I'll take care of them myself since they don't change the meaning. Good work going on here. +Fenevad 00:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA needs

message: I have just passed this to GA status. Briangotts contributions in the past two days have allayed all my real concerns about the article. While I have not yet fixed the few formatting issues I mentioned, they don't materially detract from the quality of the article. The depth of citation and links to relevant resources (both primary and secondary) are now even more impressive than they were. In addition the talk page responses on some points I made clarified matters sufficiently that I see that some of my initial concerns were unwarranted (see Berig's comments above). This is a highly informative article on a topic unlikely to be covered with this breadth in other encyclopedic works and is thus a great contribution to Wikipedia. It truly allows one to understand the subject without being overly long or confusing. +Fenevad 15:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Passed

message: I believe that the images from the Bayeux Tapestry should be cropped larger and the images should also be larger.  In Image 1, part of the banner has been cropped out.  In Image 2, it is hard to see the banner, and the knight above it has been partially cropped out.  Also, I see nothing on the banner in Image 2.  Am I missing something?  Thanks, Madman 04:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could Bayeux Tapestry images be larger?? 

message: Just a comment (which I don't presume has a place in the article) that the help of the ravens also has a significant role in the Old Testament book of 1 Kings, chapter 17, in the adventures of the prophet Elijah:
The word of the Lord came to him, saying, "Go from here and turn eastwards, and hide yourself ... You shall drink from the wadi, and I have commanded the ravens to feed you there."  So he went and did according to the word of the Lord ... The ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning, and bread and meat in the evening ... (emphasis added)
The Raven Banner article is among the best I have seen on Wikipedia.  The collaboration, as evidenced in the results and here on the talk page, is particularly encouraging when compared to the prolonged acrimony on some article talk pages.  Congratulations to all of you.   Athænara   ✉  03:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ravens

message: The image :Image:Coat of arms of Shetland.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --01:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Coat of arms of Shetland.jpg

message: This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I performed a minor copyedit, and the article needs some work on its citations as described below. I also removed an unicted comment from the end of the article (see below). The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Jackyd101 (talk) 11:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Sweeps

message: The bit about Olaf Cuaran's coins showing a "raven banner" should be changed. This part "A triangular banner appearing to depict a bird (possibly a raven) appears on coins minted by Olaf Cuaran around 924" seems to be an editor's opinion. IMO the pictured coin clearly shows a cross within the banner. Check out this site where you can see better quality images of 10th century Northumbrian coins . You can see that the ones with 'banners' all show the cross within. Here's a really good pic of the lone raven/eagle from one of Anlaf Guthfrithsson's coins; though it isn't upon a banner .--Celtus (talk) 08:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I'll remove it. We have an image of the penny you've linked to here on the old Wikipedia, as you can see. As a side note, looking over this article, I am detecting a lot of WP:SYNTH. A lot of it needs to be rewritten. :bloodofox: (talk) 06:44, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Olaf Cuaran, raven banner 

message: It seems the Danish military has again brought the raven banner into service, as can be seen here worn by Mary, Crown Princess of Denmark: . If we can find a proper source, I think this is definitely worth mentioning in the article. :bloodofox: (talk) 17:49, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi. I don't see any use of Ravens at that page? Besides Mary and the Danish military is un-related. RhinoMind (talk) 17:38, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The image was, as I recall (it was half a decade ago), an image of Mary, Crown Princess of Denmark, wearing a raven banner patch among Danish troops in Afghanistan (or a soldier wearing it in her presence...it's been a while). Modern use of the raven banner, especially in any official or semi-capacity in direct cultural descendants, is very relevant to this article. :bloodofox: (talk) 00:03, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Modern Danish military usage

message: Where did this image come from?  The bird's fan tail, or flattish tail end, makes it look more like a crow or a rook than a raven.  Ravens have a characteristic wedge-shaped tail in flight.  http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rspb+raven&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=c8e9UNfiD-K-0QXyqYCgDw&ved=0CFoQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=955  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Se16teddy (talk • contribs) 09:49, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It is indeed a problematic image, though I don't think the tail is particularly non-raven like, but because the picture is WP:OR made by an editor with no disclosure concerning the sources used to reconstruct it with. --Saddhiyama (talk) 11:49, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Ornithology of the raven banner image at the top of the page

message: If anyone wonders what Hrafnsmerki means, here goes: Hrafn means "Ravn" in modern Danish, translating as Raven in English. Merki mean "Mærke" in modern Danish, translating as Mark (or Emblem) in English. So all in all Hrafnsmerki means "Ravne-mærket" in modern Danish, tranlating as The Ravens-mark in English. 
I cannot ref this properly atm, so it cannot go in the article. It is nevertheless pretty obvious, if you happen to be proficient in both Danish (or Faroese, Norwegian or Swedish) and English. Thought I would share. RhinoMind (talk) 17:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: The saga of the exploration and settling of Iceland Landnámabók tells of Hrafna-Flóki Vilgerðarson, Raven-Floki, who much like Noah employed birds for finding the direction to the closest land. Details in the latter article.
I think this is significant enough to mention in this article, but I have no idea how to fit it into it, except maybe it could be somewhere in the section of cultural significance.
LarrisM (talk) 09:10, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using ravens for navigation