Talk:Mihrab/Archive 1

message: The whole Usage of Al-Mihrab in The Qur'an section seems like one persons interpretation. How generally accepted is this section by Muslims in general.
Also, could someone knowledgable in Islamic theology go through and edit it? It makes very little sense to a non-Muslim. Ashmoo 04:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: We have more words in which the suffix âb are found: sardâb, garmâbe. âb(e) means structures having concave ceiling and not water. Sardâb must be free from any trace of water or it's useless. It's older form is âv(e) that we have in the name of these cities: âvaj, sâve (se+âve).
I don't think it puts Islam in danger if we accept that it has a word from Mithraism. So let's stop coining a different etymology for this word. Seems we have forgotten that namâz is also a Zoroastrian term.
i agree
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Excuse me but it does have roots in Arabic even if it seems similar to a Persian word.  The word has been used by Arabs a long time before Islam and it means "the location of the head of the house - the best location in the house" (more or less, I'm not so good at translation).  I really don't understand why you would look for the meanings of Arabic words in Persian dictionaries and from Persian books when you have many Arabic sources to look up, I'm not denying that Arabic does have Persian loan words but I can assure you if it is a loan word that would be mentioned in the dictionary and Miharab is not one of them.
Even if it was a loan word, it would then be more likely to be a loan word from Aramic since they have it, and they have used it also; they are closer to Arabs (always have been living in the same areas) and the use is much more similar (the altar in the church).
Besides, why would the Arabic version turn the ligh h letter (هـ) to (ح)?  That is not logical and does not really make any sense to me because Arabs use both letters and pronnounce them differently, while Persians, up to my understanding, do not distinguish between them (I've heard Persians say "Hussain" as an example, so no, they can not pronnounce it).  It looks to me more like the Persian mihrab is a loanword from Arabic.
P.s. namaz was never an Arabic name, Arabs don't use it and don't know it and it is not listed in their dictionaries.  It is not an Islamic word at all since it is not mentioned in Islamic sources; it is quite understandable why Persians use it - since it means prayer or "salat" in their language so I don't see the analogy.
--Maha Odeh 04:51, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mihrab is a Persian word 

message: The author synthesizes parts of Quran and parts of the Bible to synthesize a claim both of which do make.
:removed the whole section. As Ashmoo already observed on 04:51, 28 July 2006 the section didn't make any sense at all. -- Fullstop 18:05, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mihrab in the Qur'an. Unpublished synthesis

message: First of all, the h in mihrab is this letter Heth (letter) not this He (letter).  Although in modern Hebrew it has two pronunciations, the two are two separate letters in Arabic so the Heth (حاء) is clear and distinguished.  It is NEVER confused with He (هاء) neither in pronunciation or writing.
Arabic sources mention as follows:
*Ibn Manthour (Persian, by the way) in his Dictionary "The Tongue of the Arabs" mentions Miharb under h r b and says: The Mihrab is the foremost location of the house and the most honorable location in it.  p.s., Ibn Manthour likes to stress on Persian loanwords in Arabic even when everyone else is positive that it's pure Arabic - for mihrab he seems sure it's Arabic.
*Al Murtadha in his dictionary "Taj Al Aroos" says that Mihrab is the sacred room, exalted location and the foremost and most honorable location in the house.  It is mostly like a room but it is also the most honorable location of the masjid.
*Al fairouzabadi (again, Persian) in "Al Qamoos Al Muheet" says: the Mihrab is the private room, the foremost part of the house and most honorable location in it, the Imam's area in the masjid, the kings locations where he sits at a distance from people.  The Mihrabs of Bani Israel are the private and sacred rooms in which they sit.
*Butrus Al Bustani in "Muheet Al Muheet" says the same as fairouzabadi but adds to it: since the Mihrab is the the foremost and most honorable location of the room, that is why the mihrab in the masjid was called so.
The above are all Arabic dictionaries; I chose the classical ones that were written several centuries ago.  You may also lookup the newer ones if you want.  All of them you will find it under the root h-r-b.
As for other books, this is what is written:
*Ali ibn al-Athir mentioned in his book (The Lions...etc.) that the Mihrab in Arabic is the exalted and honorable location. 
*Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani in his book Fath al-Bari page 458 mentions the follows:
# Abu Hanifa (also Persian) said that: Mihrab is the most honorable location of kings, the location of the king's thrown.
# Abu Ubaida said that: Mihrab is the master of locations, the front and the most honorable.
*Taha Al Wali is his book "Mosques in Islam" page 213 talks about the etymology; in addition to Arabic sources he mentions the following:
#Croswell said: This word has been found in ancient Arab poetry, but it did not have a religious meaning then, it had a secular one.
#Theodor Nöldeke stated that it meant the thrown room for the king or the prince.
#Rhodokonakis, the Austrian Orientalist states that the origin of the word mihrab is location of the thrown as in Qasr  Umeera (small ancient palace in Jordan).
#Pedersen in his entry of Mihrab in the Islamic Encyclopedia states the same as the above.
This is what I found about Etymology.
--Maha Odeh 06:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Maha for your the work you put into digging up that material. I have incorporated your material into a rewrite of what was evidently mostly made up by someone. It would however be great if you could insert  citations at the appropriate points in the article. -- Fullstop 17:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Various OR issues