Talk:University of California, Berkeley/Archive 1

message: What's the pricing structure at the university?--Jerryseinfeld 19:47, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: [Berkeley Fees] Semiconscious (talk · home) 06:14, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I am told, it was FREE until Reagan was governor, and since then still going up. This point needs some historical research. A historical table would be most enlightening. The idea was to educate the most promising, regardless of background (ability to pay) GangofOne 06:42, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I think there's always been phoney "non tuition" fees. I think its against the state charter to charge for tuition so they charge for things like electricity, landscaping, admistrative overhead, campus police, chancelor's groom of the stool, etc. These were MUCH smaller in the past. In the 60s I think they were about $150 per year by 1990 were about $1500. Now they're over $7000. The state legislature is usually Democrat-controlled though the governor is usually Republican so I wouldn't pin it on anyone other than politicians in general. Monetarily poor students usually get substantial financial aid (albeit much of it loans) so pretty much anyone can afford Berkeley. -71.112.11.220 15:33, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tuition 

message: I added in a list of alumni from the margins of the general catalog and ommitted anyone who didnt meet the 1000 person test. Apparently, (almost) no foreigners are on the list. Some of them, such as James Soong could be added. --Jiang 21:19, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Alumni

message: "researchers affiliated with the campus discovered all the chemical elements heavier than Uranium"
This statement is apparently echoed at http://www.berkeley.edu/about/history/ - "In the 1930s research on campus burgeoned in nuclear physics, chemistry, and biology, leading to the development of the first cyclotron by Ernest O. Lawrence, the isolation of the human polio virus, and the discovery of all the artificial elements heavier than uranium"
Looking at the periodic table, I don't think this is true. (See Unununium, Darmstadtium, Bohrium, etc.) Someone want to investigate this further? --Jiang 23:00, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: *Wow. I can't believe after all this time no one contacted Berkeley about this! The entry here is correct, but Berkeley's website was not. So I contacted Berkeley's NewCenter and website manager about this, and the UC Berkeley history page now reads "...and the discovery of a string of elements heavier than uranium." Elements 95 and 107-111 were not discovered at Berkeley. semiconscious (talk · home) 19:04, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need factual clarification 

message: *Cory Hall - I don't see what's so special about this building. --Jiang 06:04, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge of buildings 

message: I've started Haas School of Business, Berkeley College of Chemistry, and Berkeley College of Engineering and have included alumni/faculty lists in those articles. This lists in this article are starting to get too long. Let's make those lists more detailed, and list only the very important/distinguished people (whatever that may mean) here. --Jiang 01:47, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alumni/faculty lists & new articles 

message: Latest edit: "When one laureate was recognized, the administration, per custom, granted his request, which happened to be a permanent parking place; the solution by the administration was to mark a space NL with a sign underneath For department XXX use only; to prevent occupancy by another Nobel Laureate."
Where does it say that they grant these spaces "per custom" and only at the NL's request? Don't they automatically grant it? Where is the "department XXX use only"? It's not on the sign or on the asphalt.--Jiang 22:54, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  NL parking spaces 

message: Removed:
Among the traditional colleges found in a liberal arts setting one will find a number of scholarly and active institutions among Berkeley schools. The engineering college in close relationship with the computer science and mathematics departments offers one of the most rigorous programs in the nation, comparable to those at Stanford University, a geographic rival, and MIT. In computer science, Berkeley has had much success in securing funds and heavily invested projects for its faculty and graduate students in research and business development. 
Its programs for computer science are grueling and intense but very fruitful in respects to Berkeley rivals MIT, Carnegie Mellon, and Stanford. Its position as the leader in mathematic and CS theory has attracted scholarly leadership and interest world-wide.
The professional schools at Berkeley, Haas Business and Boalt Hall Law School, have also held reputations as some of the most innovative and productive schools in the nation. Haas Business is especially known for its training of some of the most interesting management types even if its abilities to help its graduates land jobs are staggered by the impression of public education's mediocrity. Yet Scholarship still oozes heavily from the business school. The faculty are among the most gifted. The business school shares a unique relationship with Columbia University in which a divided MBA program is completed in residence between the two school schools and respective resident cities, and taught by a split faculty from the two schools.
Please make it NPOV by citing statistics, rankings, and authorities. Adjectives are not convincing. --Jiang 02:01, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV: 

message: Please do not use just bold text to distinguish some items from others; use an asterisk, or make as separate list. Biol;d text is not "visible" to some text- only browsers, or audio browsers, or some search engines/ archives. Thank you. Andy Mabbett 11:15, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bold 

message: So "Noted Cal Students" refers to anyone who attended but never graduated? Both Jason Kidd and Pei-Yuan Wei are no longer around. In that case, Jack London should be moved down. --Jiang 04:11, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Noted Cal students 

message: This article has passed its limit. I'm going to move the lists to 
*List of UC Berkeley alumni
*List of UC Berkeley faculty
We need to expand the wikipedia:lead section and perhaps provide more faculty/student statistics (the NL parking space photo will need a place to go). --Jiang 23:34, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting alumni/faculty listings 

message: So what else in this article needs to be worked on or added to? I'm pretty happy with it so far, though perhaps the Sports and traditions section could be made more cohesive (like Columbia's). Also, may be Contributions to Computer Science might less isolated if it was framed in the context of a section on Berkeley's contributions in general?
—Gku 23:58, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)
* I'd argue that the Sports content should be removed to its own article -- it's long as it is, but honestly could gain much more depth, given Cal's storied sports background. But it's too much for the main article. Jsnell 00:35, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Things to do

message: This oath is no longer required by all new employees. I know this because I am one, and have asked other new employees.
:I'm pretty sure you're wrong, but I'll check into it. It's on the same form as the patent agreement, which I'm sure you had to sign. It's obviously not enforced in the same way it was in the 1950s, but it is still on the books "Statement of the Oath of Allegiance." It may be that it is only required by certain classes of employees, though I'm not sure, but will check. --Fastfission 20:35, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the form: Oath of Allegiance and Patent Policy. "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which I am about to enter." I'm fairly sure this hasn't been changed, but I can check today with someone who would know such things (a manager at UCB). It's not just UCB of course that requires this—all of state government might—but the point still stands that this is a vestige of the 1950s policies. --Fastfission 20:43, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked with my friend, a manager at Berkeley for over a decade, and she said that nothing has changed about this policy; I see no evidence that it had changed except an anon claiming that they didn't sign the form (I suspect they did but didn't read it). I'm reinstating.. --Fastfission 23:35, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: (Off-topic remark) Reminds me of a story about a friend of mine who applied for a job at the University of Wisconsin in the late 1960s. At that time, and likely still, University employees were required to sign an oath of loyalty to the Constitution of the State of Wisconsin. Wisconsin is one of those states whose constitution is a slim volume of dense legal prose. He got to that part, and said, "May I see a copy?" "What?" "Can you give me a copy of the Constitution of Wisconsin to read through? I'm from out of state and I'm not familiar with it, and I'd like to read it through before I sign a sworn statement of loyalty to it." Needless to say no copy could be found on the premises. (And needless to say he signed it anyway...) Dpbsmith (talk) 23:12, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: As confirmation, I was a reader for UCB last year and I definitely had to sign the pledge. It was part of a sizeable pile of paperwork that had to be completed, so someone could have easily have been signed it without paying attention. I remember the pledge in particular, since I clearly recall thinking that it must have been an odd vestige of the McCarthy era. pamm83 22:31, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: its not required for foreign nationals (professors anyway) 71.112.11.220 17:39, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed "Loyalty Oath still required today" 

message: Someone added the statement, "More people have graduated from Berkeley than any other university in the nation" today. Is there a reference for this claim? If one is not providided soon, I will remove this. Semiconscious (talk · home) 07:04, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of Cal graduates

message: The official fight song for UC Berkeley is actually "Fight for California." It's the song played when
* Cal teams take the field
* When the football team scores
* That the Cal Band plays when they form the script Cal on the field 
* At the end of games (at the end of the first half in football and basketball)
"Big C" (currently listed as the California Fight Song in this article) is one of the more commonly used fight songs by the Cal Band (generally after a big play in football), but isn't really the fight song.
UCLA made slight modifications to "Big C" for their official fight song -- "Sons of Westwood."
Good info on "Fight for Cal" at:
http://www.calband.berkeley.edu/calband/media/calsongs/fight.html
: Another thing about the "Big C" song. The lyrics in the song as presented in this article used to read "Stanfurd" (the derogatory spelling of "Stanford" used by some avid Berkeley fans). An anonymous editor at 65.91.82.62 removed the one occurence and I removed the other one (thinking it had been vandalised). I looked at the history and it seems to have said "Stanfurd" since it was added. I believe it was taken from http://www.calband.berkeley.edu/calband/media/calsongs/bigc.html. The trouble is, now I don't know if the Cal Band site just published it as "Stanfurd", or whether it was originally "Stanfurd". I wouldn't think the use of the "Stanfurd" spelling was current in 1913, but I suppose it could have been. If anyone can find a definitive source of the original lyrics, feel free to change it back. Mike Dillon 22:29, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  California Fight Song 

message: Why in the world is this a redlink? Granted, the Sports section is an okay overview. But check out Syracuse University Orange. For shame! Somebody who isn't me, do something about it! Melchoir 03:58, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[California Golden Bears]] 

message: This paragraph:
:Although there are claims that the university’s students have become politically apathetic and civically disengaged in the decades since the Free Speech Movement and Vietnam War, there are also counter-claims that today’s campus activism spans a broader range of causes (making it appear more dispersed) and utilizes new approaches, such as e-mail networks and electronic mailing lists.
Any sources? Who made those claims? Who made those counterclaims? Surely there's an article in the Berkeley BarbDaily Californian or somewhere that could be referenced? Dpbsmith (talk) 00:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The Berkeley Barb went out of business about 20 years ago. GangofOne 00:32, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: O tempora, O mores. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:07, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I wish now I'd saved them instead of using them as fishwrap. Sic transit gloria mundi. If anyone wants to fatten the stub I wrote on the Barb, go ahead! Antandrus  (talk) 22:30, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apathy/activism 

message: Re Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms I've reworded the phrase 
:Berkeley is consistently ranked as the best public university in the United States and is known for the distinction of its faculty, libraries, and research.
and moved it to the proper subhead, "Ranking and reputation."
"Known for the distinction of its faculty, libraries, and research" seems to add nothing; what else would a university's distinction be based on? 
The phrase "best public university in the United States" seems to me to be worded so as to emphasize "best" while minimizing the qualification "public," hence somewhat promotional in tone. Dpbsmith (talk) 21:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewording and moving "ranking" statement

message: :"Berkeley's largest classes of 800 are smaller than many private schools that have classes as large as 999."
I think we need a source for the "many" private schools, particularly with that very oddly precise figure of 999, inserted by 69.107.68.132 on 16:05, 23 December 2005 without explanation.
Nor am I completely sure what's the point. Surely by the time a lecture class exceeds a few hundred it can't matter much whether it's 500, 800, 999, or 3000? Assuming of course that the lecture hall is designed so everyone can see and hear... What matters at that point surely is whether there are sections, the quality of the section leaders, and how much access the average student has to the professor outside the lecture? Dpbsmith (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classes as large as 999... 

message: I removed this text:
:Berkeley is not an island. As most students of the university can attest, the campus is located in the roughest neighborhood of any UC school. Homelessness and misdemeanors are commonplace, especially in the areas to the south and west of the campus.
Aside from the fairly unencyclopedic and tautological first sentence (has anybody asserted it is in fact an island?), I'm not convinced by the claims that follow. Seeing the crime stats for Berkeley does not tell me anything about they compare to other UC neighborhoods (and what counts as a "neighborhood"? UC Riverside is not far from some fairly bleak areas itself if I recall) which is what is required to make such a comparative statement like "roughest". Homelessness is not itself a crime or necessarily a crime level indicator, either. Misdemeanors do not indicate "roughness". Anyway at the moment it is in my mind a fairly unsubstantiated and meaningless statement. I doubt that "most students of the university" can actually attest to the relative crime rates of other UC schools -- I'm betting that "most students" can't even correctly name the other UC schools or really know where they are in the state. I'm happy with including a section on local crime rates, types of crimes, comparisons with other UC campuses, but at the moment this looks a lot more like POV than actual facts. --Fastfission 18:29, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No University is an Iland, intire of itselfe; every University is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine. I don't know whether academic knocking is as much of a competitive sport as academic boosting, but UMass knockers would claim the national honors for UMass Amherst. Dpbsmith (talk) 21:06, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Location"

message: Just in case you hadn't noticed, this article was nominated as a featured article candidate. I personally don't think it is ready, but you can voice your opinion on the page I just linked to.
It does have some good suggestions for improving the article, particularly regarding the pictures used in the article and the overabundance of short "paragraphs". Mike Dillon 20:09, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article candidate