Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Final Fantasy/archive/23

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# — Deckiller 19:36, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Roll call: May

message: Wow, congrats Axem, Deck, Bluer et all. It seems thw WPFF can keep on chugging out FAs even without Ryu. I'm proud of you guys! Keep up the good work! Renmiri 00:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. — Deckiller 23:38, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Glad to be of service :D — Bluerです。 なにか? 07:38, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Glad to help out making various FF articles to FA and all. Thanks :D Sjones23 23:23, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: FAs gallore

message: I have a solution to the articles like Biggs and Wedge and Gilgamesh. We can have an article called Recurring characters of Final Fantasy. Since the talkpage seems dead, I'll go ahead and start it. — Deckiller 14:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a good idea, but is the title really fitting? Recurring characters kind of imply that they are the very same characters reappearing again and again in the entire series, and it's false in most cases (only Gilgamesh may be the same in some games). Kariteh 15:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a note in the lead that should clear up confusion. The Gilgamesh and Cid articles are going to be a little tough to merge, due to all the fluff. — Deckiller 15:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about Character NAMES? ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 16:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But it's often more than just names, it's overall design and treatment of the character that recurrs.  Examples: Cid is usually associated with Airships/Technology, is often a gruff individual; Biggs and Wedge are usually associated with military/militant organizations, they are often a comic relief pair-up; etc.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 16:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We simply can't sum up the entire article in its title, so the title will be "imperfect" in either case. Nevertheless, "Character names" is more precise than "Characters". The fact that designs and treatments are also recurring is duely noted in the article. Kariteh 17:30, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure an entirely new article is necessary for this. Maybe a merge into Common themes of Final Fantasy? Axem Titanium 23:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps in the future. I think this gradual crunchdown of the cruft helps reduce the shock value for some editors. — Deckiller 23:24, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree on both accounts, it should definitely be merged into Common themes of Final Fantasy in the future, but I also agree that it might be better to be a gradual process.--—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 02:02, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Solution

message: :Image:Ffvii worldmap new.png
Isn't this image illegal under Wikipedia's policies? It's a derivative work / a reproduction of a copyrighted material. Kariteh 17:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It can be used with fair use justification like anything else, I believe. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 19:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The current licence tag of "public domain" would also be erroneous in that case. Kariteh 19:26, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the tag. Axem Titanium 23:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image:Ffvii worldmap new.png 

message: Should Terminology of Final Fantasy VI be moved to World of Final Fantasy VI to make it consistent with World of Final Fantasy VIII? Kariteh 21:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, sounds good. It'll still need work though. Axem Titanium 23:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Worlds of...

message: With the creation of :Category:Final Fantasy gameplay, these two categories are unnecessary. If nobody objects, I'll do a bit more recategorizing to remove those two categories. — Deckiller 01:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. Go ahead. Axem Titanium 03:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Creatures and Magic categories

message: After the great work done to create the Music of Final Fantasy VIII, I propose that this continue with the other Final Fantasy games. A great Music of Final Fantasy VI, for example, could be created if we consolidate the music articles, and would help bolster the topic. Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 21:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a good idea, I seem to recall there being lots of Final Fantasy VI album articles. The problem is finding creation information. You could say I "lucked out" with Music of Final Fantasy VIII; I found a couple of interviews with a lot of development information. Reception for each album will be a lot more difficult too (it was hard enough with VIII). --Teggles 04:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merging done except for Final Fantasy Anthology Soundtrack, as it is also an FFV album. Kariteh 14:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also created Music of Final Fantasy IV, which is going to be really good. Judgesurreal777 20:32, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I created Music of Final Fantasy VII. I left Gackt's Redemption out for now because I have to go, but it will be merged eventually. If someone wants to do it first and/or check the redirects for each album, feel free. Kariteh 22:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We also now have Music of Final Fantasy III and Music of Final Fantasy IX. Judgesurreal777 05:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged Redemption and fixed the redirects for FFVII, FFIII and FFIX. Kariteh 10:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Why wouldn't it? Kariteh 09:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Might as well, especially since there were major musical changes. So the article can discuss more than just that album. Plus, there's also the songs. — Deckiller 16:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was also a single released, and the international version got extra music, etc. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 17:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, there's plenty of "juicy" material available. Feel like helping out with the music articles? — Deckiller 17:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Merged the FFV albums. Final Fantasy Anthology Soundtrack remains a problem because it spans 2 games, I don't know what to do with it. Also, after we clean up what we have, we'll have to actually add the albums that we're missing. The FFTA albums for instance, I'm pretty sure there wasn't only one. Kariteh 16:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't quite see the need to have the anthology sountrack as a page -- a simple mention on wherever it talks about the game (I assume on the respective main pages for each game), and a perhaps  on the music pages saying "XX was also put on the soundtrack that came with FFA in the US" or whatever, should be sufficient. As for FFTA, yeah, there was a CD called "White Melodies", though I forget what this is off hand. (And for the recond, as far as me 'helping', well, look at my user page). ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 17:36, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've merged the Anthology soundtrack in both Music of FFV and Music of FFVI. Kariteh 17:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I got the last one, Music of Final Fantasy XI. Judgesurreal777 22:03, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Music consolidation

message: I'm getting some flak on the talkpage. — Deckiller 11:48, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Characters of Final Fantasy VI]]

message: The index has been updated with statistics. Currently:
*Articles and lists: 165
*Good Articles: 22
*Featured Articles and lists: 9
*Featured Topics: 2
*Articles remaining to elevate to at least Good Article status: 134
*Topics remaining to elevate to Featured Topic status: 13+
— Deckiller 15:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I expect the number of GA's we will actually have to do to drop greatly, as information is not lost, but formed into bigger and better articles. Judgesurreal777 19:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Project index

message: Yeah, I'm going for a big one, but it seems like an FA waiting to happen, so I wanted to start talking about it.
*List of Final Fantasy VII locations
*List of Final Fantasy VII terms
*Materia
*Midgar
*Shin-Ra
*World Regenesis Organization
Be merged into World of Final Fantasy VII
Sounds like a winner.. Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 19:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps an aim for GA are more appropriate; personally, I'd rather see us get as many GAs as possible, and then focus on FAs. — Deckiller 20:06, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that makes sense, I was just thinking out loud that it may not be that hard if the articles have enough out of universe info. But one GA would be better than 6 starts. Judgesurreal777 20:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely. When I was doing the article count this morning, I groaned when I typed in "29 articles" next to FF7's heading. — Deckiller 20:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: World of Final Fantasy VII, or Gaia (Final Fantasy VII)? Kariteh 21:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and started Gaia (Final Fantasy VII). Feel free to rename the article if the other name is better. Kariteh 22:06, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm actually not sure about this one. On the one hand, my inner OCD-voice says that it should be "World of" to make it consistent. On the other hand, it is called Gaia. However, isn't the only citation we have for that from a pamphlet from E3 or something? I think it might be more clear to readers if we called it "World of" and mention somewhere that Square Enix retcon'd its name to Gaia. Axem Titanium 22:12, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've merged everything. That was difficult! Now the article needs copyediting, further trimming, sourcing, etc. As for the name of the world, it's definitely Gaia, as shown on the Dirge of Cerberus website. There's nothing to make consistent anyway, as we wouldn't rename Spira "World of Final Fantasy X and X-2" or Ivalice "World of... tons of games", would we? Kariteh 21:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What an accomplishment! Somebody give this guy a barnstar for an awesome merger!! Judgesurreal777 21:18, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: World of Final Fantasy VII Featured Article

message: * Final Fantasy XI: Chains of Promathia
* Final Fantasy XI: Rise of the Zilart
* Final Fantasy XI: Treasures of Aht Urhgan
* Final Fantasy XI: Wings of the Goddess
Merged to Final Fantasy XI expansions
If you take a look at these articles, they say....nothing. I think that the few release dates can be added to the main Final Fantasy XI article, and they can be redirected. Judgesurreal777 01:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they should be merged into the main article under an "expansions" heading or something similar. — Deckiller 15:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: It is not really that the expansion articles say too little, it is that the original Final Fantasy XI says too much. Much of what is mentioned in the orginal is not actually a part of the first game in the series. --Pinkkeith 17:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Fantasy XI

message: * Al Bhed language
* Locations in Spira
*Merged to Spira (Final Fantasy X) 
This has been a long time coming, and I think that, like FFVII, this World of article will be a Featured article at some point, and an awesome GA article. Judgesurreal777 19:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Shouldn't it be "World of Spira", possibly "World of Spira (Final Fantasy X)", since the other two articles referenced that?KrytenKoro 20:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not as familiar with FFX as others are, so obviously those who know should adjust the title of the new article to fit. :) Judgesurreal777 20:20, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why "World of Final Fantasy X"? The world has a name, Spira, so why not use it? The merged article should be named "Spira (Final Fantasy X)" (because Spira is a disambiguation page). The only reason the world of FFVII article was named "Gaia (Final Fantasy VII)" was to disambiguate from the Greek Goddess and the FFIX and TSW homonymous planets. Trying to fit the naming "World of..." everywhere would lead to unsolvable problems with Ivalice. Kariteh 21:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I modified it, I think that your argument is a compelling one, all of it should probably go into Spira (Final Fantasy X) Judgesurreal777 21:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it should be Spira (Final Fantasy X).  It seems to me we do, but just to make it official, do we have consensus as a WikiProject to use the name of the world followed by a (Final Fantasy ##) disambiguation if required, and to only use "World of ..." for those continuities in which the (main) planet does not have a name?  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 22:39, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so, since it is more accurate to call it by the name of the world it takes place in, such as "Middle Earth", not "The World of J.R.R Tolkien", for example.
I merged one, one more! Judgesurreal777 23:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Merger in progress, feel free to take a look and help clean this big baby up! I'm trimming a bit.. :) Judgesurreal777 23:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: DONE! It is a mother, but I can already see the outlines of an FA... I formatted it a bit like World of Final Fantasy VIII. Needs copyediting, lots of trimming, sourcing, etc. Judgesurreal777 23:47, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I recommend making this priority one; both articles were GA, and it would be a pain to get an untimely delisting during the transition. — Deckiller 01:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Let's spruce it up! :) Judgesurreal777 01:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll help too. Done with APs, yo! Axem Titanium 02:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: World of Final Fantasy X

message: This article seems unnecessary with Ivalice. Also, the main reason I haven't redirected or done anything to List of Final Fantasy IV locations is that we've had people interested in turning it into something like the World Of... articles. — Deckiller 17:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: FFIV had a sort of equivalent to an Ultimania Guide () with lots of interesting information about the game's world, but there doesn't seem to be much out of universe information available. Kariteh 17:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's a real pity. Hopefully IGN will come out with some developer articles now that IV is being remade; I don't think there are any interviews posted on media sites or fansites WRT FF4. — Deckiller 17:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I merged List of Final Fantasy XII locations into Ivalice. Also, I put some tags on the locations of FFIV. My impulse is to merge until we have some good remake interviews and then resurrect it as a GA. Judgesurreal777 16:00, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[List of Final Fantasy XII locations]]

message: I've been working on the User:Sjones23/Characters of Final Fantasy X article. After all the work on the Characters of Final Fantasy XII article, I am getting this up to a possible GA level. I've been updating everything these past couple of months. Any comments so far? Sjones23 19:52, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some pointers to achieving FA (based on my observations of Characters of Final Fantasy VIII) includes: In-game citation for statements made in the article, Developer interview on character creation and influence, and reception and critics of the characters by reviewers.. — Bluerです。 なにか? 20:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Bluerfn. I need some help on this FFX Character article a little. Sjones23 22:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved my sandbox draft to the Characters of Final Fantasy X article. Sjones23 23:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, I restored some pictures now. If anyone wants to restore these pictures, for which Gnomebot deleted in my sandbox, please do. Sjones23 00:22, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characters of FFX article 

message: Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Spoiler warning :) — Deckiller 21:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to sound like a vote-stacker, but I think our project should seriously weigh in on this one. Axem Titanium 22:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Absolutely. I find it ironic. One of the most successful projects on Wikipedia — perhaps the most successful dealing with fictional topics —  bans spoiler warnings a year before the general debates. We have been treated somewhat rudely for the last year because of that, but now the entire project is catching on. — Deckiller 02:12, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Spoiler --Teggles 11:37, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Policies/Wikipedia:Spoiler warning Didn't last there very long. :(  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 19:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Perhaps you would say it's not going well, with majority support of spoiler warnings (yet no one responds to my "other warnings" section). However, there is clear consensus that spoiler warnings are not to be placed in plot sections. Which is a brilliant achievement for an idea that originated and was only used here (afaik).--Teggles 08:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Spoiler warning]]

message: Unreleased games don't belong in templates, but what about templates about unreleased games? I'm thinking of :Template:FFXIII. Should'nt the whole template be deleted since it's a series of games that haven't been released yet? Kariteh 08:28, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess it's a navigation template within an unreleased game series so it's okay? I dunno. Axem Titanium 14:23, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I still fail to understand why unreleased games don't belong in templates...♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 14:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it was because allowing easy navigation to unreleased games encourages trolling and rumor spreading. Axem Titanium 14:36, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not so much a matter of preventing easy navigation, but rather segregation.  Unreleased games are rumor mills, no matter how much we edit and revert someone always inserts a rumor that they feel is reliable but ultimately is unsourcable.  unreleased game articles are basically placeholders for until we can write a real article.  It's also a point to consider that because it's not released yet it isn't yet a member of the series.  Projects can be scrapped and changed even late in their developement, it has happened before.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 16:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreleased games in templates 

message: Here are some mergers I and others have proposed lately, feel free to leave some feedback.
*Chocobo Racing Original Soundtrack
*Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within (soundtrack)
*Characters of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
*Characters of Final Fantasy V
*Final Fantasy: Unlimited Music Adventure
*Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles Original Soundtrack
*Final Fantasy Mystic Quest Original Soundtrack
*Final Fantasy Tactics Original Soundtrack
*Characters of Final Fantasy: Unlimited
*Characters of Final Fantasy III
*Final Fantasy VI: The Interactive CG Game
*List of Final Fantasy XII locations
*Locke Cole
*Terra Branford
*Airship (Final Fantasy)
*Weapon (Final Fantasy)
Judgesurreal777 19:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Woo, WP:FF's range is getting smaller by the day. — Bluerです。 なにか? 20:09, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. Integrated content is stronger and has far more potential. It has been the key to our success. — Deckiller 02:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged airship, started trimming... Judgesurreal777 01:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged CGI demo of Final Fantasy VI, I am pretty sure we should put it in the reception section, though to accomodate it I think i'll change the reception section to "Reception and Legacy". Judgesurreal777 00:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged Unlimited Characters, had a very similar list on the main movie page. Judgesurreal777 02:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged FF12 locations into Ivalice. Finally, got these fictional locations into one article each! :) Judgesurreal777 03:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged Characters of FF III, used the raw materials to bolster the FF III DS article to help with its GA candidacy. Judgesurreal777 22:52, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged Weapon to Monsters page, fits pretty good there. Judgesurreal777 07:05, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you sure it was merged? It seems just redirected and the paragraph in Monsters is quite weak. Kariteh 16:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I remember the discussion of the Airship, most of the information was not merged since it only pertained to a specific game and not to airships in general in the series. Please feel free to add anything that was mistakenly not transferred. :) Judgesurreal777 21:24, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Merged Mystic Quests soundtrack using the new track listing system. It seems that it has been decided that if there is only one soundtrack item, it can go in the article, if there are more, it becomes a "Music of...", so I am proceeding according to consensus. Judgesurreal777 19:42, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged Crystal Chronicles soundtrack per discussion.Judgesurreal777 21:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged Unlimited music soundtrack. Judgesurreal777 00:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged Characters of Final Fantasy V into Final Fantasy V per discussion, there was not one bit of out of universe information, and the main FFV page had a lot of character stuff. Judgesurreal777 01:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged Characters of Tactics Advance, there seemed to be no reasoned opposition and the article contains no out of universe info, it can always be resurrected if some appears. Judgesurreal777 02:40, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged Spirits within soundtrack, only one album, doesn't need whole article. Judgesurreal777 05:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For those who care, I am checking the Final Fantasy wiki to make sure that the Airship article is there in its entirety so none of it is lost. Judgesurreal777 05:34, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Faris is one of Amano's favourite design with Terra. It should be added to the FFV article. Kariteh 12:23, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked, and it appears to already be stated in the development section, but I also added it to the Amano article. Judgesurreal777 03:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger ideas

message: Recently, there has been a lot of new info about FF games coming from Square Enix Party 2007. I was just wondering if it's notable enough for its own article. Axem Titanium 02:46, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think for our purposes, it would make a good development reference in each of the articles of the games that are created by the announcement. Judgesurreal777 02:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Square Enix Party]]? 

message: Please pardon my ignorance, but i can't for the life of me find an answer to this question anywhere on the entire site. Why in the world has the Characters of "Final Fantasy II" been redirected to the Main FFII page, which scarcely has any information about any character at all? I might be able to understand that you would want all of the FFII information on one page, but why didn't you at least keep the information that was on the original character page? Thank you. Dr. D 21:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you would like to restore some of that information onto the main FFII page, please do. It would make a good starting point for further expansion. Axem Titanium 01:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  FFII character merger 

message: This article goes into so much depth that it feels like a crime to be hacking away at it. This is going to need a lot of work to straighten out what needs to be said and what does not. There's just so much backstory. I'll see what I can do. — Deckiller 15:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For now, I removed the location list and added a link to where it appears, word for word, on the Final Fantasy Wikia. We can probably add a couple paragraphs outlining the areas, but 30 KB is way out of line. — Deckiller 16:10, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there any online sources with which to source up the article? Judgesurreal777 06:49, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The flaregamer article that we've used quite a lot is as reliable as we're going to get. IGN articles are also fairly reliable, as are developer's interviews if we can get any. — Deckiller 22:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Spira (Final Fantasy X)]]

message: Yes, I just wanted to do this in one fell swoop :) Now, do any of these have a strong chance of getting to Good Article status, or do any have a better shot as part of the main character article? 
* Auron
* Kimahri Ronso
* Lulu (Final Fantasy X)
* Rikku
* Wakka
* Paine (Final Fantasy)
* Characters of Final Fantasy X-2
*Merge to Characters of Final Fantasy X
Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 06:48, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say go for it but you seem to be on a rampage to merge stuff. Maybe slow down a bit to bring some of the post-merge stuff to GA before moving on? It's easier to defend a merge when the article is GA. Axem Titanium 15:17, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I recommend taking this a little slower. I've been plotting a FFX character merge for a few days now, but I'm waiting to see what Sjones is up to with his sandbox. — Deckiller 15:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha, yes I am Rampaging, sorry about that. I am just feeling very positive, to be honest, that we finally have a group of people who understand the potential of the mergers. One thing I want to be clear about though, I AM NOT SAYING ANY OF THESE ARTICLES SHOULD NECESSARILY BE MERGED AT ALL, I am here to ASK, and only ASK, if it's a good idea. I want to be respectful of the group, and there is no rush to merge anything, it just popped into my head that these mergers could happen and should be discussed. Trust me, this is the last of the merger stuff for a bit. Many of the merger-created articles, like the "Music of" articles need to be given time.  I think I'm going to switch gears and, as suggested, get go GA's under my belt, thanks for the suggestion. Judgesurreal777 21:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

text: On the other hand, if we can get all the necessary merging done now, then we can focus our attention to quality. Or we can do it in a rowing style. Fortunately, there isn't much left that has to be consolidated. — Deckiller 22:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the merge needs to wait, get the other merges stabilized first, then move on and merge FFX.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 17:29, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True, I have been trying to make sure the mergers "stick". But I do think that, if the mergers are going to happen eventually, might as well do it while we as a community are focused on it and seemlingly in agreement. We are very close to being done with merging for a while I think, and then we can get Characters of VII and X to GA status. Judgesurreal777 20:51, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Fantasy X characters proposal

message: I proposed it be merged, since the article stated the game was simply cartridge release of the chocobo racing from Final Fantasy VII, and the Stallion article is extremely small...but since there are no sources, I am not sure if it is just that, or if it was developed with the FFVII chocobo stuff as a basis...could you take a look and help me determine? Thanks! Talk:Final_Fantasy_VII Judgesurreal777 20:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't actually know, but I think it's a completely new game. Best just to leave it. --Teggles 01:06, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe...but it would be good to find out, don't want to do two merger candidacy's. Judgesurreal777 01:11, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Amazing how little information there is on this game....can't find anything so far! Judgesurreal777 01:50, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe... the game actually doesn't exist! It's all a figment of your imagination. DUN DUN DUNNNNN. Axem Titanium 03:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm about half way there myself :) Judgesurreal777 03:11, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Most Chocobo Stallion info is in Japanese. From what I could find out, this is an entirely separate game, as it also include locations from FFVII as well as FFVIII - Esthar and Winhill to name a few. It also has different characters, from what I read I can say no FFVII character is in this game. This is from the japanase wikipedia version. — Bluerで す。 03:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I got concerned when I saw the japanese screenshots, looked like a different game...Thanks a ton! Judgesurreal777 03:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chocobo Stallion

message: I need some help on the Characters of Final Fantasy X article. This article had its non-free images removed by Gnome-bot while working on my sandbox and when I moved it, I knew I had to restore those pictures. Can anyone restore these pictures to this article? That would be much appreciated if anyone responds to this. Thanks. Sjones23 22:28, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like that was taken care of pretty quick!, Anything else you need help with? Judgesurreal777 22:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so. As what Bluerfn pointed out to me, try to use the infobox used for the main characters so that the voice cast and image can be organized well. Sjones23 01:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I removed the section on Zanar. Anything else that needs to be accomplished must be done as per the above statements by Deckiller. Also, another thing that needs to be accomplished is to remove the game guide POVs on some of the characters. Sjones23 21:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sjones, when you were adding your changes, you accidently reverted two mergers (Jecht and Seymour). Those merges really need trimming; each three times too long. — Deckiller 14:15, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  FFX Character article 

message: Seems to be reverting several recent mergers. Judgesurreal777 04:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ...I direct you all here and here. Jesus Christ.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

text: WP:SOCK? Not so much this person but I strongly suspect . Axem Titanium 11:23, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe he is also User:Iran5milestoday,hurray! Judgesurreal777 22:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if he is Headstrust, but he is probably Runsboats. Kariteh 06:50, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Special:Contributions/Headstrust|User Headstrust]] and co. 

message: …help?—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ...I direct you all here and here. Jesus Christ.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{user|Ageslimit}} 

message: Déjà-vu?. - Kariteh 07:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:SOCK? Not so much this person but I strongly suspect . Axem Titanium 11:23, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe he is also User:Iran5milestoday,hurray! Judgesurreal777 22:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if he is Headstrust, but he is probably Runsboats. Kariteh 06:50, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{user|Neeeeedstepss}} 

message: What are the main priorities to work on right now? Perhaps an importance-level system (project-specific) would help with working out what to edit. --Teggles 21:50, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the project goal of the moment is to get all articles to Good Article or featured list status....Otherwise, there are articles that are close to good and featured article status up in the corner.....perhaps we could start a featured article drive for Final Fantasy XI since its so far along.Judgesurreal777 22:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You might also try Final Fantasy IX. You might spark an FA push. — Bluerです。 なにか? 22:26, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to field a proposal that we nominate an article for featured status, since we seem to have some articles that are ready....Should it be 11, 9, or another one? Judgesurreal777 23:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main priorities 

message: I'm quite aware that Vagrant Story had small connections with Final Fantasy. But I've recently nominated the game's article for FA. Feedbacks from this WikiProject is very much appreciated. — Bluerです。 なにか? 10:02, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quick link to FAC here, for anyone who is interested. I'll take a look at the article when this week is over (my teachers decided to make it hell for no apparent reason). Axem Titanium 14:41, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vagrant Story

message: Hey, everyone, please comment on the Kingdom Hearts peer review. A couple of editors and I are FA-pushing it. This is quite in the same vein as the above. Axem Titanium 18:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kingdom Hearts peer review

message: Now before everyone starts screaming :), I want to say that I do think one or maybe two of these could stand on their own, like Tifa Lockhart, but several of these, seemingly all of them except Tifa, are unlikely to stand on their own, so I wanted to start a dialogue on which should be merged and which should be refined to GA status. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, the more consolidated our topic is, the easier to get to GA status, and any information that cannot be included should automatically be checked to make sure its found at the Final Fantasy wikia, as has been done with Spira (Final Fantasy X), to make sure nothing is ever lost.
PUSH TO GA as part of Characters of Final Fantasy VII
* Barret Wallace
* Cait Sith (Final Fantasy VII)
* Cid Highwind
* Yuffie Kisaragi
* Rufus Shinra
* Turks (Final Fantasy VII)
* Red XIII
----
PUSH TO GA SOLO
* Tifa Lockhart
* Vincent Valentine
* Zack Fair
Merge into Characters of Final Fantasy VII
Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 23:20, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is exactly what I want us, as a group, to determine. I didn't want to have people fighting over their fate :) Judgesurreal777 23:40, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tifa is a major love interest so I'd like to keep her separate. Vincent has his own game and so does Zack (Crisis Core) so I want to let them have their own articles too. I feel like the rest can be safely merged without vocal disapproval, except maybe Turks since they have their own game too. I'm not sure about that one. My gut still says merge for Turks though. Axem Titanium 01:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We should probably go for the safer ones first — Cid, Nanaki, Rufus, and Yuffie. — Deckiller 02:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Add to that list Barret and Cait Sith, they should be safe to merge, too.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 17:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not merge them all in a Recurring characters of Final Fantasy VII article, and create a Characters of the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII for the rest? Just a thought. Kariteh 17:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That ignores the fact that many of these characters play large roles outside of FVII games, and calling them recurring characters is a bit redundant.  Characters of Final Fantasy VII is just fine.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 17:58, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I made a "mini proposal", please rearrange/discuss. Judgesurreal777 22:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I support this. Axem Titanium 22:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well! I suggest that we merge to top seven; I would do it myself, but I am not as familiar with FFVII, so I wouldn't know as much what is crucial. Judgesurreal777 20:06, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Top Seven should indeed be merged. None of them have enough backstory or prominence to warrant their own article. Turks do have thier own game, but unless that game provides a considerable amount of stuff, there's not enough. Tifa gets her own article based on prominence and popularity, Vincent has his own game and a wealth of backstory so he should get his own as well. Zack will probably deserve his own article....once Crisis Core is released. Until then, he's of minor importance and there's little information about him.Xenon Zaleo 16:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The Rufus page DOES have a lot of nifty information, but it's questionable if he really deserves all of it.Xenon Zaleo 23:34, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps if given time I could construct an article worthy of being seperate. However, I could do that for every character and I don't think thats quite what the project wants. Gavin Scott 09:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I still think, mergeritis not withstanding, that this should be merged. We have discussed this, and it seems that there a consensus for a merger of the seven and the preservation of the 3. Judgesurreal777 03:36, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we should save these mergers for another day... Judgesurreal777 04:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Fantasy VII Characters proposal

message: I think we have found our ideal model for how Wikipedia should cover fictional topics with the success of the Final Fantasy VIII topic. The article's plot summary is perfect: 950 words, covering the main points with concision. Sub articles for setting and characters cover mostly out of universe information with in-universe context thrown in to round out the story. After reading FF8's coverage of the fictional aspects of the game, the reader will have a basic grasp of the setting, characters, and back-story without it substituting the game; in other words, they will still have a lot to gain by actually playing the game and drinking in the story. That means we've done our job: we have informed, but not replaced the actual work.
And now that we are continuing the trend with the other FFs, I'd say we are starting to slowly close in on the point where we can start pressing this formula throughout Wikipedia. Heck, I wouldn't oppose if someone AfD'd Final Fantasy items to tie up that loose end rather quickly, but I digress. 
Eventually, I will draft a rewrite of WP:FICT and a new MoS entry for Plot Summaries to supplement WAF and FICT. 
Other loose ends include the Gameplay of Final Fantasy article, which has really stalled in my standbox for quite some time; elevating the Monsters, Minigames, and Character class articles to GA status; and everything else :) — Deckiller 00:54, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I applaud and agree with those sentiments. I would also like to add that I think that all of those music articles that are not game specific may be good within a Albums of Final Fantasy article, or a similar name, so that one would be a GA. Judgesurreal777 01:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just an idea for the gameplay article, I think Square Enix battle systems would be a good launching point since 1) it already talks a lot about it and 2) it doesn't seem to cover any battle systems outside of FF anyway. I propose moving it to Gameplay of Final Fantasy and working from there. Axem Titanium 01:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I definitely agree. Even if this isn't moved to Gameplay of FF, it should still definitely be moved somewhere else because of Talk:Square Enix battle systems#Move. Kariteh 14:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Fantasy VIII: the perfect model

message: I know that it will end up getting merged anyway which I disagree with since it just needs to be overhauled etc but what I don't agree with is that it got merged with Music of Final Fantasy VIII in less than 24 hours without as much as a discussion.  When the discussion finally arose, it was already merged.  Any ideas or whatever would be helpful.  RIANZ 02:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO, I don't see why it shouldn't be merged. What is there to cover on this song apart from which the said article has already covered? If it is for the sake of discussion, what is there to discuss, what is the issue with it being merged to the said article, really? — Bluerで す。 03:05, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact is that it had already been merged long before User:Kappa revived it without discussion (see its article history). The merge was a long time coming and I don't think some hot shot with an agenda should have the power to unilaterally undo that (to the crappy old version no less). Axem Titanium 03:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, lucky I'm not the referred to hotshot, hence why I really can't be bothered starting an edit war.  But it may have been the "most universally disgusting article ever made in the history of the wikipedia and defies being even associated with the Final Fantasy project" but really it just needed work.  Yes, I could have done work on it, you could have done some work on it.  The "hotshot" could have as well.  But instead the simplistic (I refrain from saying "lazy") way was taken because someone found it that repulsive I'm positive they "threw up in their mouth" a few times whenever they viewed it.  Oh and even though the merge may have been a long time coming but the proposal seems to only appear on May 28th (it's the tail end of the 29th where I am).  Yay I added something different :p RIANZ 03:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh oh oh, since we love merging things, do the same for... Simple and Clean from Kingdom Hearts.  May as well.  But like I said.  I don't agree with the merge but if it happens properly, it happens. RIANZ 04:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea, might help get Music of Kingdom Hearts to Good Article status. Judgesurreal777 04:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text: When I merged the article into Music of Final Fantasy VIII, its condition didn't matter. It was the possible content. When you look at it, there isn't much to elaborate on. Everything relevant easily fits in the Music of Final Fantasy VIII article. Just because the article is allowed to have an article doesn't mean it should. Frankly the "bury" argument is ridiculous, it has its own section and is linked directly from the Eyes On Me article. The argument solely seems to be that it deserves to be an article - which somehow reeks of the people who claim Pluto deserves to be a planet. --Teggles 04:33, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I guess also Eyes On Me can only be considered as a stub rather than article, so it should be merged.  In the past, I spent a lot of time thinking of how to improve Eyes On Me and the answer is I couldn't!  So it make sense to merge. --Cyktsui 15:03, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eyes on Me (FF8 song) 

message: I am pissed off that you would disrespect my contributions to the project by destroying it and removing info that if it were an article on Cloud would be encyclopedic (i.e. out of universe stuff). I also think it's unfair for a MINOR character like Wakka or Lulu to get an article over a MAJOR character like Terra. --Sir Crazyswordsman 03:40, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all Crazy, I didn't merge the article, if you look at the history, we have just had a major case of vandalism in which someone resurrected the article after it had been merged, which I helped to revert. Also, if you look at our discussion above, we are discussing mergers of those characters from FFX and FFVII that would not constitute a full good article as there isn't enough out of universe information.
I would further like to say that Terra's out of universe information should have been merged, and we should immediately make sure it all got transferred from the old article. Also, some of us have been making it a rule to transfer topics that are very good but are not particularly encyclopedic over to the Final Fantasy wikia, which perhaps should be done in this case too. 
But as to Terra having her own article, do you think it has enough out of universe information to become a Good Article, for example? The reason it was merged because it was felt it didn't. If it can be demonstrated, great. If not, it would be preferable to combine it into the FFIV character page. Judgesurreal777 04:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Terra can have her own separate article as the main character; if, once the Characters of Final Fantasy VI page is perfected and elevated to at least GA status, it is fairly short yet concise, a correct merger might be appropriate. — Deckiller 17:27, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Terra is not the main character of FFVI. There is no main character in the game; this has been explicitely stated by developers ages ago. Kariteh 17:30, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I reverted the Terra merge 

message: The Page was for some reason merged into a main Bahamut page though I find zero discussion about this on either talk page. In any case, due to Bahamut's appearance in several different games, a request on the main Bahamut page that the section needed trimming, and the fact that the article has a primarily out of universe tone, I removed the redirect and reestablished the page. So it probably needs to be part of the project again. It could use a few more sources, but other than that there's no reason it should have been merged in the first place. Xenon Zaleo 16:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bahamut isn't really notable enough to warrent a separate article; I recommend placing the information in either Common themes of Final Fantasy or, preferably, Recurring character names of Final Fantasy. — Deckiller 17:27, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The request that the section needed trimming was supposed to lead to a trimming of the section, not an expanding... Kariteh 17:31, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First, Bahamut is in EVERY Final Fantasy except for two of them, and plays a significant story role in more than one. For that reason, he's possibly more notable than any single character in the series except for Cid. However, that said, he may belong in the Recurring character page. Second, I removed the section from the main article, so it was trimmed to nothing with regards to that article, which is what the request deals with.  And finally, just because one person thinks it needs trimming doesn't mean it actually does. But the section was as big as the entire rest of the article, and so it was overwhelming for that article, hence the move.Xenon Zaleo 23:32, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But you're completely wrong about notability. Notability is coverage in multiple reliable sources. It has nothing to do with popularity or importance. Bahamut is barely covered at all in reliable sources, as far as I know. That means it is eons (whee pun) less notable than other characters, hence the reason for merging it. --Teggles 01:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Notability guidelines are flawed with regards to fictional characters and I have no reason to believe that any character save for Cloud and/or Tifa and/or Aeris are in any more "reliable publications" than Bahamut. And do all mentions mean the same thing? He's got a whole page devoted to him on the Square Enix Website for XI, does that mean that same as say....a list of characters? Notability can be clearly established by familiarity with the series, simply because it has not been sourced as of yet with every book and/or review doesn't mean it isn't worth keeping until they get up there. But I digress. I will add what sources are immediately available to me, and we'll take it from there.Xenon Zaleo 23:16, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The reliable sources need to be independent of the games, so official sites don't count. To be honest, there's probably enough for Bahamut to be notable, but no one has proven that yet. Right now the current article has no secondary sources, aside from official links and those irrelevant to the creature. --Teggles 01:06, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bahamut 

message: Please give your opinion on Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2007 May 30#Basuter sword → Final Fantasy weapons#Buster Sword. Kariteh 09:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned redirect