Talk:New Zealand English

message: The section contains a large number of unreferenced and/or incorrect claims regarding vocabulary, e.g. that 'ice block' has been borrowed from American English, or that 'dunny' originated in New Zealand. 
Frankly, the section is a mess and needs a serious clean-up. I'd suggest a list of common differences from both British and American English, as is found in the article on Australian English as a way of neatly summarising lexical differences. A list summarising direct borrowings from American and Australian English, in the same format, may also be useful.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.219.29.86 (talk) 22:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm no lexicographer, but I am American and "bushwhack" does not mean "fell timber" in American English. It means to travel across land not using a (man made) path (i.e 'cross-country). Also "crib" is in common use in the USA. I believe (but do not know) it's mostly for urban apartments or homes/residences. (It also appears in my 1993 sOED, so not exclusive to the USA). It should, imho, be removed as a New Zealandism.72.16.97.19 (talk) 12:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of the vocabulary section should be removed, it has been a good excuse for novice editors to play around with edits. Bushwack? I've never heard it used in NZ. Crib, does mean a country holOnly day cottage - used in the south - as opposed to the word bach which means the same in the rest of NZ. I also question if vocabulary should be used to describe a language variant. Grammar and sound should be I think. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 23:18, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Vocabulary is one of the main distinguishing factors of English variants as it a major factor of jokes and stereotypes, such as Canadians saying "eh", Brits saying "innit", Australians saying "g'day", etc. With this in mind, I think a vocabulary section is quite important, however I do agree that it needs some work. ―Panamitsu (talk) 00:34, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

text: I have removed bushwhack - 'fell timber' as an American use is supported by NZ Oxford Dictionary, but not by OED, nor New Oxford American Dictionary, both of which can be expected to be more reliable on US use than the NZ dictionary. Nurg (talk) 02:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vocabulary section is very poor 

message: Prawn is a term for edible shrimp in Australia and New Zealand. Smaller ones are also called shrimp in Australia and prawns as in prawn cocktail or prawn skewer are called prawns in New Zealand too. Written by an Aussie.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.229.148.166 (talk) 00:25, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Prawns and shrimp are different animals. Just saying. 58.80.201.106 (talk) 23:07, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of ‘prawn’ from ‘Differences from Australian English’

message: Useful starting thread for expanding on Kiwi slang:   Nixinova   T   C   21:22, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I would be happy to get broad agreement that we limit the kiwiana section to one paragraph and a list of no more than ten words. That would go a long way to removing this endlessly pointless playing around with expressions, edit wars and other tinkering edits. None of it is in the least bit productive or encyclopedic. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 01:50, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colloquialisms expansion 

message: The entire sections needs a clean up with a lot of the section needs citing, however this will focus on particular words. For reference the section New Zealandisms specifies that New Zealand has it's own unique words and phrases derived entirely in New Zealand.
Removal
* and that (phrase) - Should be removed because even within it's own example it states that it's used in the UK
* Barbie (noun) - Should be removed because even within it's own example it states that it's borrowed from Australia
* G'Day (greeting) - Should be removed because even within it's own example it states that it's borrowed from Australia
* Dag - the wikipedia page on dag can summarize this better, but it originated in usage from the UK, and the current usage is shared between Australia and New Zealand.
* Heaps - Used in multiple other dialects of English including British English. Kaplan International Languages lists it as Australian english in the same usage, and the usage relates to the british usage to mean a lot of something as noted in the Oxford Learners dictionary and Cambridge Dictionary.
* jug  (noun) - used in Australian English as electric jugs were originally made in both Australia and New Zealand both language dialects use the term jug to mean electric kettles today because of this as shown in Australian usage in this Sydney Morning Herald article.
* slab (noun) - used in Australian English, notable is that this is mentioned in the  Beer in Australia page, also uncited. Macquarie dictionary has a page defining it as such. Of note is that I can't find reference to a slab of beer in the New Zealand context, though this was only a cursory search. However, what may pause this is that the unsourced addition mentions a 12 pack is also referred to as a slab, though I can not find any example of this being used in New Zealand or Australia.
* togs (noun) - used in Australian English, the BBC has an article exploring the origin, indicating that it's use for swim wear is of shared origin rather than derived in New Zealand.
I'm proposing to remove these entries, however an alternate solution could be to change the section from New Zealandisms to a broader section on words and phrases used in New Zealand, though such a section would likely become exceedingly large. In either case the remaining entries will also need sourcing as it seems improper to have a section that is in large part unsourced, especially as anyone could add very small regional or generational slang with little challenge. Gladfire (talk) 06:37, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest you don't remove things wholesale.  The article could do with cleaning up and would benefit from additional citations.  However, rather than removing things that are not uniquely New Zealand English, it may well be better to move to the sections concerning external influence eg move "Barbie (noun)" to the section on Australian English. WCMemail 07:42, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Might be a good idea, though that section is arguably even worse than New Zealandisms in regards to it's quality and layout. Additionally for some of these words like jug for an electric kettle, it's not clear whether usage started in Australia or New Zealand so being under Australian English Influences might be inappropriate. It could be worth removing the Australian English Influences entirely and replacing it with something similar to the Difference from Australian English table that's labeled something along the lines of Terms Shared with Australian English, though that may be worth it's own talk page section? Gladfire (talk) 08:27, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  It does need some better sourcing, do you have sources in mind to use as the basis of a clean up?  It would be better to derive a suggestion for a layout based on how this is treated in academic sources. WCMemail 08:48, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm not even sure where to look because a lot of this is slang and/or brand names so reliable linguistic sources are unlikely to have them, leaving a jumble of sources that may not be appropriate. Even the Macquarie Dictionary source I listed, I realized after the fact, may actually be a page that registered users can add to, so it's not exactly a valid source to put on the page, though does show usage for the purpose of a talk page. This is part of the reason I proposed removal of the entries that I did, as I could point out were entirely or partially false rather than all unsourced entries. Gladfire (talk) 09:09, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

text: I definitely don't think that those entries should be removed - many of them are still kiwi slang or have significance in NZ, even if they're not exclusively kiwi. This is especially true for many of the ones that are borrowed from Australian English - if we don't have it in the NZ English article because it's used in Australian English, and we don't have it in the Australian English article because it's used in NZ English, then where would you propose those words be covered? We don't have an article on Antipodean English. Turnagra (talk) 09:12, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree. You are assuming, Gladfire, that a New Zealandism must have originated in NZ, which I do not think is correct. I have steered clear of this article for a long time because it is one of those articles that is difficult to create and to edit succinctly with proper sources. Consequently we get a somewhat disorganised collection of words and phrases that more closely reflects people's personal views than what sourses say. I think the whole article could do with a clean-up. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's not really an assumption, it's following what is stated in the establishing sentence of the section. "In addition to word and phrase borrowings from Australian, British and American English, New Zealand has its own unique words and phrases derived entirely in New Zealand, many of which are slang terms". It separates out words and phrases that are borrowed from other dialects. Having it not be this would also kind of invalidate the two previous sections or lead to re-stated information. At this stage after the comment chain with Wee Curry Monster, I'm leaning towards removing the UK derived one entirely, moving the Australian derived or shared entries to Australian influences as a preliminary action, before opening a separate talk section on potentially reworking the entire vocabulary section. Gladfire (talk) 10:07, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm entirely open to the restructuring suggested but it need to be done systematically and guided by reliable sources.  Linguists do consider slang phrases in studying language so this should be possible to source.  In British English, I'd look to experts such as Susie Dent (she is a TV personality and well known linguist) but not so certain on who I could cite as an expert on NZ English.  I did a google search, which turned up a couple of sources that might be suitable .  These are available readily on Amazon eg  and appears to be available in libraries .   WCMemail 12:10, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

text: I also tend to agree with what Roger 8 Roger and Turnagra have stated here: I don't agree that a New Zealandism has to originate in New Zealand. It might be worth expanding the scope of the article to New Zealand slang or something similar. --Spekkios (talk) 02:07, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

text: @Gladfire I feel like a section on New Zealandisms needs to include "yeah nah" as I would argue that this is one of the most definitive phrases used in only in New Zealand, perhaps only second to the subconscious use of 'eh' at the end of a sentence. 47.72.83.124 (talk) 21:58, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hate to tell you this, but "yeah nah" is well known and well used in Australia. HiLo48 (talk) 23:25, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

text: Chur, bro. Should definitely be added. Schwede66 23:30, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning up New Zealandisms 

message: Wikipedia claims that New Zealand has three official languages, English, Māori and sign language.  English is not an official language in New Zealand. The official languages are Māori and sign language. 203.211.77.128 (talk) 08:19, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Does it?  Schwede66 09:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

text: See Talk:Languages of New Zealand#English as an Official/National Language.-gadfium 09:22, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  NZ Official Languages