Talk:Günther von Kluge

message: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERkludge.htm indicate Hans not Günther. 209.90.162.50 08:51, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment 

message: von Kluge committed suicide during an airplane flight from Metz, France to Berlin, Germany.
Some sources list his place of death as Metz (the origination of the flight) and some as Berlin (the desitination of the flight). I'm not sure what to put in the infobox place of death. If someone knows of a standard, please advise. FinFangFoom 11:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Place of Death 

message: The photo appears to have been sanitized to remove the standard uniform eagle & swastika.
Sca 16:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as this photo is concerned, the above is not the case: this more likely a pre-1934 photo; i.e., von Kluge is wearing a Reichswehr uniform. This can be deduced from the Kokarde in the upper middle of his hat; this was replaced by the eagle with a swastika in its talons (Hoheitsadler) around 1934 by order of Hitler. HTH, Jim_Lockhart 13:26, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: Kazimierz Moczarski was an officer in the Polish Home Army. After the war he was imprisoned and was held in the same cell as Jürgen Stroop. In his book, Rozmowy z katem (Conversations with an Executioner), Chapter 23 is entitled Stroop Liquidates the Field-Marshal. Here Moczarski gives Stroop's description of how Stroop, as HSSPF of Rhein-Westmark was detailed by Himmler to investigate Kluge's involvement with the July Conspiracy. Upon collecting and finding "damning evidence", Stroop presented Kluge with the choice of suicide or the People's Court. Kluge refused, and according to Stroop, "In the end he found himself on the floor, on the beautiful carpet, with a bullet in his head...".
Himmler then instructed Stroop over the phone to write up his report to contain the airport suicide story.
kovesp 23:12, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide or Murdered by [[Jürgen Stroop]]? 

message: Regarding the statement: "As commander of the Sixth Army Group, which became the German Fourth Army, Kluge led the Sixth into battle in Poland in 1939." - I can find no references to this elsewhere. Indeed, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Army_(Germany), it states: "The 4th Army was activated on 1 December 1938 with General Günther von Kluge in command." with no mention of Sixth Army Group anywhere in the article.  Does someone have references to prove that the Sixth Army Group became the German Fourth Army? Zargon2010 (talk) 09:45, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Invasion of Poland and France

message: Army Groups are the largest military units that has been used. For instance there were three German Army Groups that attacked France 10 May 1940, they were labeled as A, B and C. Each Army Group comprised several Armys, however the number of divisions is the most commonly used type of military units, when comparing forces during WW2. Before the war, no such formations as Army Groups existed. Boeing720 (talk) 00:05, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Army Group is a "group of Armies" , several Armies. They have never been used in peace time. 

message: I undid the additions of Fellgiebel and Seemen, as superfluous. Please see Talk:Erich_von_Manstein, specifically this portion of the discussion: "Is there actually a dire need to have these citations in the article at all?". Please let me know if there are any concerns. K.e.coffman (talk) 17:35, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edit 

message: It may be so (as he at the summer of 1944 was in France) wasn't fully aware of the details regarding von Stauffenbeg's assassination attempt on Hitler, but von Kluge was certainly deeply involved in the resistance to Hitler and Nazism. For instance Hans Hellmut Kirst lists him among the around 20 most significant persons in the resistance movement. "The 20th of July" is a novel, but only in the details. Kirst made a historical and very thorough research before writing that work, a work that is undisputed. He disapproved of the status that Joseph Goebbels had given Erwin Rommel during the war in northern Africa, and couldn't see Rommel as a leader of larger military units (Army Group size), which may have caused confusion. He (von Kluge) had a close relationship with Henning von Tresckow and even if committed to his country, not to Hitler. Further , he was not just aware of the plans to kill Hitler (like Erich von Manstein, who took the rather awkward position when asked if he wished to join the resistance, and replied "Prussian officers do not rebel" - but still didn't reveal the resistance either), von Kluge was an active part of it, but couldn't participate due to circumstances.    
Injured in a traffic accident (!) in Russia, hospitalised  and then moved to commander in the West (France). von Stauffenberg was undoubtedly a brave man, but the reason for his great name in history was the opportunity. The "access" to Hitler. We can't know weather von Kluge had been equally daring in von Stauffenberg's position on 20.July 1944, but we can't know the opposite either. 
Propose "was a part of the resistance" Boeing720 (talk) 10:05, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not involved ? 

message: Ed is requesting that I mention Wolfgang Von Kluge’s rank. A book by Samuel W. Mitcham has it and describes his dishonorable discharge a month after his brother committed suicide. However, I recall a talk page discussion I cannot find at the moment that contests his reliability. What is your opinion—would it be alright to cite Mitcham for this?TheGracefulSlick (talk) 17:42, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Mitcham is generally okay for information that can be backed up by archival data: dates of promotion; commands; discharge; etc. --K.e.coffman (talk) 23:55, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks . I will probably be gone for good soon but I tried to address everything on my end before then. My source did not have an estimate of the forces under Kluge’s command in Poland, but I doubt that will be a deal-breaker. Thank you for finishing this with me and I apologize for total stupidity as of late—it really cost me.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 00:33, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mitcham 

message: I restored the image to the infobox ; my rationale was: "Later career photo is a better fit for the infobox". This photo also makes Kluge look like a real person, rather than a propaganda icon. --K.e.coffman (talk) 15:55, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I think that the portrait taken in 1939 is a pretty neutral studio portrait of him in uniform and it's much higher quality than the later career photo. I don't think he received any physical trauma that grossly disfigured him between 1939-1944, is a later career photo necessary? Studio portraits all flatter the subject, I don't see how it depicts him as a "propaganda icon". If its the Knight's Cross you're worried about, it's pretty prominent in almost every other portrait of German officers in that era. Meeepmep (talk) 18:55, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The 1944 photo makes Kluge look more like a real, thinking person. It adds character to the article. In any case, the change was reverted, and I do not find the arguments for the 1939 photo to be compelling. I would recommend an RfC to resolve this dispute. --K.e.coffman (talk) 17:57, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've noticed that you changed the lead image in Guderian's article with the rationale "photo w/o headgear". I agree with this change and I think this rationale also applies to this article, on top of the fact that the original lead image is much better quality. Meeepmep (talk) 13:44, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead photo 

message: Felimy419 (talk) 23:20, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section 2.3.1 battle of Moscow