Talk:Palestine Liberation Organization and Hamas

message: I don't mind that someone is adding a claim that this is disputed. I do wonder why it is disputed.  Members of the PLO and Hamas have been very open about working together against Israel.  Is someone claiming that these quotes have been fabricated? They exist in the Arab press and the Palestinian Authority press as well. Who told you that these quotes only appear on pro-Israel sources?  That is a ludricrous falsehood, and not even remotely true. RK
I added the disputed tag. I did so after being directed towards this page in a debate on the Straight Dope message boards. I have the following objections to it
The opener in it's original form (i have since then changed it) implied that it was a proven fact that the PLO and the Palestinian Authority was "allied" with Hamas on an organisational level. Now "allied" is a term open to some interpretation. Nevertheless there is no support in the collection of cites and news stories for such a claim. That is in itself enough to dispute the NPOV of the page.
Correctness of the quotes: I am not claiming that they are fabricated. But there's a couple of problems with them. Many of them are fragmentary; that is, text from different parts of an original document has been bundled together to imply a coherent argument. This argument may be present in the original text, and it may not. The original document in it's entirety is not available on the internet in english for comparison. Key parts of quotes are inserted in brackets. F. e. in many of the quotes "Hamas" is inserted in brackets, and it is not possible to find out if such an insertion is a correct interpretation of the original text.
No-one told me that these quotes only appear on pro-Israel sources. I found out myself. The original arabic documents were of course unavailable to me. If you know where to get hold of a translated version, please let me know. So i was left with the internet. I did a Google search of the sequence of words in the first ten list items on the page. Out of them numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9 and 10 existed only on this Wikipedia page and on some different Pro-Israel web sites. Only. You try it yourself! It's an educational excercise. Prominently www.likud.nl and www.zoa.com (Zionist Organisation of America) had collected a number of these quotes. Now i'm asking myself: How did the original author of this page do his research?
The Israeli government makes a big point out of claiming that Arafat / the PLO / the PA are in bed with terrorists. So not only was the original claim not supported by the quotes, it also had political implications.
 -- cheers, RandySpears
Hm. I just can't wait for the pages linking american republicans and the KKK, or americans democrats and the KKK, or pages linking Ariel Sharon's support of communism, Hitler's support of an Iraeli exile state, etc. After all, this is wikipedia. Intellectual honesty, however, requires that such articles be treated as links between disagreeing groups, rather than articles that attempt to lump multiple groups together.
Ronabop 12:33, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: After a month of silence, I've edited the heading to indicate that having similar goals is not the same as implying direct, ongoing, material support. Ronabop 08:07, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: Edited to note that the conflagration is that old, and claims of alliance between groups have been proffered in that same timeframe. Ronabop 07:46, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: So tell us an example of an organization "such as the Palestinian Authority (PA) and the PLO" which existed 50 years ago.  --Zero 08:19, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: This article is a rather simplist view of the issues, to say the least. Completely POV, and even fails to adress the current issues, let alone history. Tazmaniacs 23:02, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV check 

message: Israeli domestic press have asserted that they found some signs of joint activities:  
* Ninety Hamas members were hired to man the PA police force's 'vice department' (Jerusalem Times, November 25, 1994.)
* In local elections in the West Bank, Arafat's Fatah faction has campaigned on joint lists with Hamas. (Jerusalem Times, June 23, 1995)
* Hani al-Hasan, one of the associates of Yasser Arafat, said that Arafat will agree to form a new leadership parallel to the Palestinian Authority which consists of all the Palestinian factions, including Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  , 
* Mua'in Atallah, an officer in the Palestinian Authority's "preventive-security" force, which was responsible for securing the Karni cargo crossing from the Palestinian side, was arrested for helping Hamas and al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades commit the suicide bombing in Ashdod seaport, which killed 10 people. Atallah admitted guilty in investigation and revealed that by closing off the crossing, Israel have thwarted a huge terror attack planned by Hamas.  , 
: I have restored the two last sections, since they contain factual data that is relevant and important to the article. MathKnight 23:25, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Other alleged links between the Hamas and the PLO

message: I moved this part here, since its mixing up PLO with the Fatah, the Palestinian Authority and other organizations, and added a POV-check template. This article hasn't get any better since it has been nominated for deletion. Tazmaniacs 23:21, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV check 

message: I don't understand what this article is here for. Is it trying to prove that the PLO and Hamas are one and the same secretly, or that Fatah supports Hamas, or that both are terrorists and Westerners should hate them, or what? It doesn't even hold a train of thought or even the English language. "Conflictual?" Is there a template that can be added? SOmething like "Article is Hasbara, and not very good Hasbarah." Shia1 21:06, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What's the Point of this Article?