Talk:Spencer W. Kimball

message: Marked as needing some work but deleted - preserving here in case someone wants to edit for neutrality:
:During his apostleship, Elder Kimball's labors spanned the globe as he served both members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints along with other people he came in contact with. Primary duties included visiting and organizing stakes, wards, and branches of the Church, calling missionaries, performing temple marriages, and teaching the Mormon religion. Dedicated to the people whom he served, he spent much of his time interviewing, teaching, and counselling members and others about how to live Christ-centered lives.
:Spencer found himself teaching the principles of repentance and forgiveness quite frequently. Referring to many of the same scriptures and teachings over and over, he wondered if his notes might be used to serve more than those he could meet with personally. In response to this need, he compiled his oft used notes and scripture references in book form, and titled it; "The Miracle of Forgiveness".
--Trödel 03:41, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted text 

message: I just wanted to point out one obvious stumbling block to this article being selected as a GA, which is that more than 95% of the article appears based on work by Kimball's sons. Have no independent figures written about Kimball? Are there no academic or journalistic accounts that touch on his life in any way? His own sons seem unlikely to have taken a complete and dispassionate view of him and his work, and it's hard to imagine this article could be neutral while based solely on the writings of his family. Thanks for your work on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 19:07, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the only other full biography of Kimball is by Francis Gibbons and is of inferior quality compared to Edward Kimball's books, particularly the 2nd (2005) one.  Kimball (2005) is of excellent academic quality.  I think it a poor judgment to discount it because the subject is the author's father, in classical Chinese work (my main Wikipedia field) we deal with this regularly.  White Whirlwind  咨  06:45, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing to sons only? 

message: Good_Olfactory – you made some good changes, but do we really need to change the dates to the MM/DD/YYYY format?  Does Kimball really qualify under strong national ties?  I think those are fine as they were.  The LDS Church uses DD/MM/YYYY for its records now, anyway, so who cares? I say we follow the "Maintain the Existing Variety" doctrine. White Whirlwind  咨  00:20, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would we want two different date formats in the same article? I don't care which is used, but articles about American people usually use MM-DD-YYYY. But either way, should it not be consistent at least internally to this article? Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:16, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates 

message: I reverted the rollback of my edits yesterday. Please give me the chance to finish my editing of this section. (there were problems with the Internet connection where I was working.) There are extensive cites from RS that I need time to add. It is not original research. There was a suit filed against the church in 2015 related to this, and recently the federal district court has said that the Navajo Nation Tribal Court has jurisdiction over a suit brought by four former students in the program. Kimball was in charge during this time.Parkwells (talk) 16:10, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the Indian Placement Program (IPP) is certainly relevant to Kimball's life and leadership, as he initiated it due to his concern for Native Americans, and it reached the peak of student and family participation during his years as head of the church. The paragraph I have added back is sourced to a BYU academic book; certainly that should meet editors' standards for RS. This has been national news; I will look for other sources. Indian Country Today happens to be a Native American-founded and operated newspaper; editors should read more of its articles before trying to dismiss it as a source. It is certainly reporting factually on the federal judge's dismissal of the LDS Church's effort to have jurisdiction over the sexual abuse case moved out of the Navajo Nation Tribal Court.Parkwells (talk) 02:32, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: As head of the church during the growth of the IPP, Kimball had influence and his remarks in 1960 at the general conference about Lamanites were quoted by The Atlantic in a recent article. They are relevant to this article.Parkwells (talk) 03:45, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Kimball's 1960 remarks are repeatedly referred to in articles about the church's position related to Native Americans and other peoples. He was quoting from the contemporary edition of the Book of Mormon. In 1981 he approved changes to the BOM that incorporated what were reportedly Joseph Smith's changes in an 1840 version: conversion making a people "white and delightsome" was changed to "pure and delightsome." Parkwells (talk) 15:44, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Indian Placement Program

message: An editor here disputed my use of Indian Country Today Media Network as a Reliable Source in this article. It was founded and owned by Tim Giago in 1981. It is now owned by the Oneida Nation and based in New York City. It is a newsweekly described by the Associated Press in 2013 as "a leading source of Native American news" when reporting their decision to go digital. - KRISTI EATON (AP) "National Native American magazine going digital", Big News, 14 July 2013 . I think that speaks to the magazine's ability to report on the Indian Placement Program and its relation to the LDS Church. This article relies heavily on the biography by Kimball and Kimball; other sources commenting and reporting on the period of Spencer Kimball's life and his programs are also useful.Parkwells (talk) 15:44, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure why "a leading source in Native American news [in 2016]" is supposed to be a reliable source for a program that ended well over 50 years ago.  In any case, your adding all this extraneous information on the IPP to the article on Kimball is utterly pointless, as this information (if indeed reliable) belongs on the IPP article, not Kimball's.  It now has a full four paragraphs of text on a topic that is of minor importance to the man himself, or about 10% of the paragraphs in the main portion of the body (prior to Parkwell's edits dumbing down sentences and splitting paragraphs needlessly).  I've often thought recently that the entire section on Native Americans will probably need to either be deleted or otherwise greatly truncated in preparation for a possible push to FA status that will necessitate a trimming of the biographical material in order to make room for an "Influence" or "Legacy" section.  White Whirlwind  咨  22:49, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of ''Indian Country Today'' as source

message: Hello again, everyone! Anyone familiar with the facts surrounding Nelson's operating on Kimball knows that Nelson reported his feeling during the operation that Kimball would be president of the Church. It is also interesting (and perhaps not coincidental) that Kimball would approve Nelson's appointment to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in April 1984, and that Nelson himself has since become Church president. If a NPOV way can be found to mention all of this here, it might not be a bad idea to do so. But I wanted to put the idea out there and seek for consensus in that regard before I did anything. Thoughts? --Jgstokes (talk) 01:38, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This a somewhat interesting story for LDS readers in particular, and perhaps we could find an NPOV reliable source that describes the incident, but even if we could I am not certain that we could find enough sources to demonstrate that the story is sufficiently notable to warrant inclusion.  White Whirlwind  咨  16:40, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Facts relating to Kimball's surgery