Talk:Zagreus

message: The Orphism (religion) article gives a differing creation myth than this one. - DNewhall 15:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does that actually matter?  Do you know how many contradictory creation myths Greek mythology just generally has hanging around?  - Azurefox 15:30, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if this article was reporting an alternative version of the myth, then it'd be fine, but from what I can see, this article is just plain garbled. Creating semele's body from Zagreus' heart? Where does that come from? And the order of events has been rather drawn out, with Zeus saving the heart and implanting it in Semele, and only then returning to blast the Titans. I'll try to fix it up a bit. Fuzzypeg★ 21:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's improved matters a bit. I've removed the contradiction template. Fuzzypeg★ 22:26, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Contradiction

message: I found that hidden in chapter Orphic Zagreus:
: unfounded: The Orphics believed in the transmigration of souls and that a person was able to remove their intrinsic evilness by living three virtuous lives. Afterwards, they would dwell in Elysium forever.
-- Tomdo08 (talk) 20:52, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  ...three virtuous lives... 

message: I removed the following paragraph...
:In Orphic tradition, Persephone was the mother of Zagreus (Dionysus) by Zeus; in the Iliad, Persephone's consort Hades, king of the underworld, is called Zeus Katachthonios, "Underground Zeus". In Hesiod's Theogony and the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, Zeus granted that Hades could abduct Persephone,Hesiod. Theogony 914; H.H.Dem. 3. suggesting that their roles are sometimes interchangeable. Both Zeus and Poseidon were occasionally consorts of Demeter. "Underworld Zeus" is linked with Demeter by Hesiod.Hesiod, Works and Days 465. It is this that has generated some suggestions that Zagreus may be a son of Persephone with her husband Hades.
:
For a couple of reasons, besides being hard to read. For one, it mostly repeats, at greater length but less understandably, points about Zagreus's genealogy that have already been made. Second, it makes a synthetic claim (that "Zeus" means "Hades" in this context, if I understand it correctly) based on primary sources. Although it's not that much of a stretch here, making a synthetic claim based on primary sources is considered OR. Bacchiad (talk) 01:39, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. Paul August ☎ 14:15, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed parapgraph

message: Is the name of Zagros mountain range in Iran derived from this Zagreus?
Aminabzz (talk) 11:14, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: They're actually not etymologicaly connected.
Wikifan153 (talk) 21:05, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zagros 

message: I was hoping that Zagreus could be added to the "Residents" section of the Greek underworld Template. Seeing as he is believed to be a son of Hades it only makes sense that he was probably born in the Underworld, or at the very least spent some time there. 
(161.29.246.205 (talk) 07:32, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zagreus is an Underworld Resident 

message: I'm new to editing wiki pages so there may be some errors or confusion on my part. But I was wondering, out of curiosity, is there any particular reason an, "in popular culture" section hasn't been added to this article? --DeerSalad (talk) 05:18, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything in such a section would need to be covered by reliable sources, which establishes its relevance, significance and notability with respect to the article's subject. Paul August ☎ 20:59, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: What sort of sources would we be looking for, out of curiosity? Would, for example, an interview with the developers discussing the game character's connection to the mythical figure be sufficient, perhaps something establishing the general notability of the game (e.g. as having introduced the formerly highly obscure figure to a wider audience), or are we looking for something more professional/scholarly? I assume the problem here is less one of subject matter and more that previous attempts to add such a section have cited either nothing at all or the game's wiki and things like that. I Knew Him Horatio (talk) 00:03, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes some sort of scholarly source. That the character in the video game is connected to the Greek god Zagreus is not enough. And the notability, or significance of the game, or character is not the question. The question is whether the video game character has any particular relevance, significance, and notability with respect to the Greek god? And more importantly, are there any reliable scholarly sources which assert this?  The mere existence of a character in some video game, or movie, or book, which is somehow based on the god, does not warrant its mention in the article. Paul August ☎ 01:02, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

text: Here are some articles:
- About the accuracy of the Greek mythology portrayed in the game Hades:
https://screenrant.com/hades-greek-mythology-real-story-explained-underworld-zagreus/
- Discussing why the game developers chose Zagreus as the main character:
https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/5/22315749/hades-theseus-worst-character-zagreus-supergiant
Could these be used as the 'required' sources? Cougroyalty (talk) 15:48, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for these potential sources. I will take a look, when I get a change.  The key here, is that all assertions made, anywhere in Wikipedia, need to be verifiable (see WP:VERIFY), that is there needs to be a reliable source (see WP:RS) which substantiates the assertion. Paul August ☎ 16:04, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: In the meantime, if, after you've read WP:RS, you think the above sources qualify, then it might be a good idea if you were to propose some text, cited to those sources, for discussion here, Thanks. Paul August ☎ 16:07, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

text: Thanks for proposing some text. I've taken a look at the sources provided. None of them are reliable sources with regard to Greek religion or mythology. They might be considered as reliable sources in the context of video games (if so then it could possibly be appropriate to add this conten to the article on the game), but I'm not in a position to able to judge that. Paul August ☎ 15:16, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I would say that they are reliable sources in the context of video games and pop culture.  Since that is the context on which I wish to add the proposed paragraph, then I feel that it is appropriate.  I will go ahead and add it.  Thanks for your feedback. Cougroyalty (talk) 15:26, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The context of this article is Greek mythology, so the sources provide are not reliable sources for this article. I'm going to remove your text until we can come to some consensus here. Paul August ☎ 15:36, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

text: The mere existence of the video game character somehow based on the god, is not enough to warrant mentioning in this article. What is needed here are reliable sources, which establish this character's relevance, significance and notability with respect to the Greek god. The sources provided do not do that. Paul August ☎ 15:48, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  The following Greek & mythology related articles all have popular culture sections referencing video games: Greek mythology in popular culture, Hades in popular culture, Zeus, Ares in popular culture, Theseus, Megaera, Leonidas I, Cultural depictions of Medusa and Gorgons, Xerxes I, Minotaur, Valhalla.  I admit that there is a lack of consistency as to how it is portrayed.  I think I might try to seek some outside opinions.Cougroyalty (talk) 16:35, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zagreus in videogame Hades 

message: Are the names Agreus and Zagreus related? Aminabzz (talk) 14:08, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agreus 

message: Zagreus from zoe Life Zoo Animal + agreyo hunt catch, trapp, capture = Hunter Lifecatcher = Jaguar. The Same in Jupiter it s Zeus Patir = God Father of Life. 2A01:C22:B191:8200:2061:8D5A:31AC:D0A0 (talk) 10:16, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

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thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Academic Writing II 2pm