Talk:Moken

message: *Support merge of Sea Gypsies into Moken.  Badagnani 08:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

message: The Moken people  most likely lived on the Malay Peninsula in ancient times, before scattering throughout the Mergui Archipelago when displaced by Malaysians.  
The Moken are the among the smallest minorities in Burma and have proven vulnerable and virtually defenseless against human rights abuses committed by the Burmese junta.  Refugee Moken women and girls likely have ended up in prostitution in Thailand's thriving and notorious port brothels.
The Moken still have extensive knowledge of the maritime environment of the Andaman Sea.  
*I have moved this material here from the article so that if any of it can be verified it can then be added back into the article at the appropriate place.  For example, the human rights abuses might well be verifiable.  Bejnar 15:03, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unverified

message: The CBS documentary claimed that the Moken have no sense of time, nor words for "hello" or "goodbye", but claims of this kind are almost without exception ill-informed, untrue and largely meaningless. Language Log posting on the Moken, April 2005 C0pernicus 13:05, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sense of time

message: The Moken nomads have well established cultural values, and their self-sufficiency contrasts with the economic subservience of expeditious natural resource exploitation proffered by modern society.  Today, the Moken culture remains intact only on the coastal islands around Kawthoung, formerly Victoria Point, the southernmost town of Myanmar.  
* I removed this from the article because the first sentence seems to be POV and judgmental, and neither statement has been verified.  The second statement seems unlikely as the Moken move back and forth between Thailand and Myanmar (Burma) to avoid the authorities.  See, for example,  "SPDC Rounding Up Sea Gypsies For Show" Feb. 11, 2004. Unless by "coastal islands around Kawthoung" they mean all of the undeveloped parts of the Mergui Archipelago, as the Thai seem to have been better at assimilation than the Burmese.  The 1972 ethno-linguistic map of Burma shows that the mainlanders there are Burmese (Burman) and in the southern tip of Burma, Thai, and that the islands are mixed Burman and Malay.  Malay would refer to both the Moken and other Malayan groups.  Bejnar 00:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultural values

message: Moken is not protoMalay and the way the word Prot-malay is used in the article is nonsensical, which is why I will delete it again. Proto-malay is the name of an hypothetical ancestor language that developed into the modern malayic languages such as Moken, Bahasa Melayu/Indonesia, Iban etc. Calling moken proto-malay is therefore completely wrong and a misunderstood usage of the word proto-malay.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 14:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some linguists prefer to restrict the use of the expression "proto-Malay" to a reconstructed early version of Malay.  Others include under the term certain languages, particularly those with low linguistic change, that are closer to that reconstructed language than the main dialects of present day Malay.  The term is also used by non-linguists to refer to people who are Malay related, but who occupied the Malay peninsula prior to the main invasion of the Malay people. See, e.g., Orang Asli.  --Bejnar 15:43, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. The first of these three uses is however the standard usage of the term in linguistics and other uses should be fitted with an explanation. It could be expressed in a less confusing way be stating that moken "is a rather conservative Malayic language, preserving many traits from proto-Malay". If this is true it would be a much easier explanation to understand for linguists and laymen alike.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 15:50, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: That is a sensible wording. I think this should have been considered, and discussed here, before the text was summarily deleted. That's what the discussion page is for. Badagnani 15:52, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: thats what we're doing now. Frankly I thought that this was just another abandoned ethnicgroup article and noone was really monitoring it - that's why I didn't discuss what I thought to be a correction of a simple mistake.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 17:18, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ProtoMalay

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I tried to make an edit on another page but messed up my citation/it was reverted/waiting for clarification from that admin to make sure that the revert was due to my formatting /check in on content before attempting to make the same change anywhere else:
but the term "sea gypsy" is used in a few places on this article: gypsy is a slur for the Romani people. I think it'd be good to clarify that the term is considered a slur in most contexts-- but acknowledge its usage
(something along these lines would be my suggestion)
gypsy (is a slur and shouldn't be used regularly but is left for historical linguistic context)
Kizemet (talk) 06:23, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  term sea gypsies