Talk:International Society for Krishna Consciousness/Archive 2

message: Hey, I've just put a cleaned up version of the ISKCON page over. I'd appricate that if anyone wants to make any major changes that they first spoke on talk, as i've spent a bit of time getting the page much nicer :) Thank you Dwayne Kirkwood 18:57, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hey. I didn't write that section so where you have put "you say", actually it's whoever wrote it, you'll be able to find that tracking back through the history. My speculation however would be that the basis of the dropping of the ritvik system was the situation of which it was initiated, while Srila Prabhupada was no longer able to travel. The letters i'm guessing that are being referred to are the one where he mentions his disciples becoming Guru's after he has left his body. But, i'm only speculating and i'm sure you'll be given better answers if someone else see's your questions. Dwayne Kirkwood 07:06, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: NPOV because there uis still content which is clearly POV.
Sfacets 05:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe you could give some indication to what content, so that it could be fixed, rather than speculated on. Dwayne Kirkwood 07:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the NPOV because it's ubsubstaniated.GourangaUK 08:18, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Clean Up 

message: From what I can see on the Hare Krishna page, the scriptual references for the Maha Mantra all refer to it as this name, and it's not just ISKCON who call it this. So, unless you have counter-evidence, please stop editing the article.
On the side of Srila Prabhupada's translations and purports, what is wrong with the current description?
Thank you Dwayne Kirkwood 07:06, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Sfacets - you're right there are many translations of the Gita, and this is discussed in the Bhagavad Gita page. If another mantra gets an entry in Wikipedia under the term 'Maha Mantra' also then we can create a disambiguation page to include them all, but I don't think we need to change the name in this page. Hare Krishna, ys, GourangaUK 07:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

text: From above:
 Maybe you could give some indication to what content, so that it could be fixed, rather than speculated on. Dwayne Kirkwood 07:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

text: After just discovering that the Maha Mantra page is already in existence I'm now at a loss as to seeing what issues may remain to discuss? I've amended the description of the mantra on this page as best I can without taking away the meaning. GourangaUK 15:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Maha Mantra and Srila Prabhupada's purports 

message: I have deleted the link to "Reform group" (www.krishna.org), for several reasons:
1. Though placed under the heading of "Succession issues," the site is not specific to those issues, nor even largely dedicated to them. 
2. The site does not belong to a "reform group" but to one single person. It's a one-man site.
3. Above and beyond that:
The site, Krishna.org, knowingly and persistently bootlegs copyrighted artwork and book-length copyrighted text. 
Examples appear at "books.krishna.org" (not preceded by "www"). There you will find stories for which the content is bootlegged material, hosted on "krsnabook.com" and "asitis.com." All three sites are run by the same webmaster. 
Further information is available from the rights and permissions department of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, www.bbt.info.
The relevant Wikipedia policy appears in Wikipedia:Copyrights, in Section 4.3, "Linking to copyrighted works."
 
O Govinda 14:56, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted pirate link  

message: Hare Krishna!
The Guru article features a large section criticising Gurus of all religions and faiths. It seems intent on criticising any religions based in or based upon South-Asian religions, and implies that any person called a Guru is likely to be a fraud. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is featured in the article.
It has been proposed that the article be either:
* Separated, the criticisms directed at each Guru be placed under the article on that particular teacher
* Merged into a new article such as 'Criticisms on religious teachers' or similar which would show less bias on South Asian religions.
However, concensus needs to be reached for any action to be made, so I encourage you to discuss the options on the Talkpage of the article. Talk:Guru
Sfacets 20:41, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I consider the above announcement by Sfacets an inappropriate use of the article talk page. I see the announcement as off-topic and as an attempt to recruit contributors sympathetic to his POV to push his or her POV on the article guru. I filed a request for comments regarding this use of the article talk page and several other article talk pages. See Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Religion_and_philosophy. The dispute about such use of the article talk pages is further discusses at talk:Sikhism Andries 08:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Guru]] Article

message: There has been an issue of bias and non-NPOV when editing this article, in that critical links and content is systematicaly removed or hidden. Please improve the article so that it includes all significant viewpoints.
Sfacets 14:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Sfacets, I can't help but think you have a personal issue with anything concerning Iskcon? Just because I removed one link from the page which was being debated about you give the whole page a Systematic bias tag? There is already a link from the 'Rickcross' website. Which viewpoint is not being given? GourangaUK 10:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

text: This page (the Wiki article) clearly mentions a number of issues in detail which are quite clearly critical - i.e Child Abuse, Succession issues etc... But to insist on the inclusion of yet another link with such personal endeavour defies  logic? Does it add anything to the issue? I'm simply trying to keep the number of links down to a common-sense number, what's it got to do with bias? GourangaUK 11:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Systematic Bias

message: Like several other articles on Wikipedia, this one has had several external links to Rickross.com anonymously bestowed upon it. 
Though perhaps the anonymous users are simply too lazy to look for the original source material, or don't recognize the extra value of original sources, we might suspect at least a mild case of link spamming. 
The links generally bring one to articles mirrored on "rickross" from other sites. I have lately replaced two or three such "rickross" links with links to their original source. Nothing lost, except Google points for Brother Rick.
I suggest this as a good practice for the strength and cleanliness of this article (and others). Better to favor the original source.
This suggestion has nothing to do with my recent difference of opinion with Sfacets. Articles whose subjects he seems to view favorably have also had critical links to Rickross anonymously bestowed on them. 
Cordially, O Govinda 13:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rickross link spamming? 

message: As I have just discovered, the site Harekrsna.com knowingly and persistently bootlegs book-length copyrighted text.
At <harekrsna.com/philosophy/acarya/writings.htm> (prefix that with "www") you will find more than 50 volumes of copyrighted books the site has no right to publish.
I didn't notice this till I saw an article bootlegged from www.jswami.info at <harekrsna.com/sun/> (full article: <harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/06-06/editorials427.htm>.
Further information is available from the rights and permissions department of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, www.bbt.info.
The relevant Wikipedia policy appears in Wikipedia:Copyrights, in Section 4.3, "Linking to copyrighted works."
I am therefore deleting the link. 
I am deleting the site not because it is critical but because it is a pirate. 
O Govinda 19:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting another pirate link 

message: Hello. Over at Wikipedia:WikiProject The Beatles we would like to create an article on the Radha Krsna Temple who recorded an album on Apple Records with the support of George Harrison. We'd also add a section here and link to the main article using . We've found a few sources and we believe that the Temple was a forerunner of ISKCON but, really, we don't know very much about it. Therefore any help you could provide would be most welcome. Indeed, why not make this a cross WikiProject effort? :) Please respond at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_The_Beatles#Radha_Krshna_Temple. --kingboyk 13:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We have a stub in place at Radha Krshna Temple, and your help filling in the blanks would be appreciated. Please see Talk:Radha Krshna Temple first. Thanks again. --kingboyk 12:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radha Krsna Temple on [[Apple Records]] 

message: There seem to be quite a lot.  Are there any that anyone feels are particularly valuable according to the guideline at Wikipedia:External links? - brenneman {L}  12:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: The official ISKCON website for Ireland, www.krishna.ie, has been removed on more than one occasion. I fully value the need to keep distantly related links to a minimum however under no way could this extend to the official website of ISKCON, which this entry is about, for a particular geographic region.
:The reasoning behind the removal is that otherwise we could end up with a list of centres so long the article becomes a links page again, which is not what Wikipedia is about. There is a direct link to the same website (Iskcon in Ireland) from the main Iskcon UK website already listed. It is not a negative comment about the quality of the site. Yours Respectfully, GourangaUK 15:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: With due respect - The Iskcon.co.uk page contains a map on the front screen from which anyone can easily navigate to their local area if required. This is not on the website for Ireland. Iskcon USA is listed on krishna.com, there may be an argument to include a link to Iskcon in Australia as another major English speaking country for the article but the main iskcon.com is enough to cover anything else. Regards GourangaUK 10:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ISKCON Ireland 

message: At Wikipedia: WikiProject Council, I have made a proposal for a new WikiProject  - WikiProject Mysticism. I wonder whether any readers of this article would be interested in joining this WikiProject? Vorbee (talk) 18:03, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal for new WikiProject

message: :The last sentence in the lead of the article states: 
* 
:The lead-in is quoted from page Number 33 of the source but the full content is: 
*.
:There is no page number with only the chapter. The entire concept of inline citations are so other people can check where the information came from and not have to read twelve or thirteen pages to determine that paraphrasing was overlooked. "Influential" is not a synonym for "Popular". It can be seen as an attempt to elevate popular to mean something it is not. While popular can become influential we can't state what is not backed by a reliable source and we shouldn't paraphrase with poor choices that when checked appear as weasel words. I am assuming that I did not miss the wording or equivalent in one of the other pages in the chapter, or possibly in the body of the article with proper attribution, when I stopped looking so is the reason I placed relevant tags.  Otr500 (talk) 16:05, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inline citations 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:18, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: I'm making the following changes to clarify the following assertions about court cases:
(1) "In a landmark 1976 case, People vs. Murphy, the Supreme Court of New York found that "'the Hare Krishna religion is a bona fide religion with roots in India that go back thousands of years." Although the parents of two Hare Krishna members claimed ISKCON had brainwashed their children, the court found they had not and that their children had freely followed the tenets of their chosen faith."
I'm editing to clarify the identity of the court.
Referring to "the Supreme Court of New York" is misleading at best.  First, there is no such court with that name.  Second, the real name of the court that issued the judgment is "Supreme Court, Criminal Term, Queens County."  That court is a court for criminal trials - despite its name, it is NOT the highest court in New York State.  The highest court in New York State (and the state-level equivalent of the US Supreme Court) is called the "Court of Appeals."  In New York State, any court titled "Supreme Court" is a trial court and not an appellate court.
Because most people do not know the intricacies of New York's confusing court nomenclature - including that "Supreme Court" is not an appellate court - it's completely misleading to refer to the court as anything other than a criminal trial court.
(2) "A brainwashing lawsuit filed by an Orange County mother and daughter, Robin George, in 1977 led to numerous appeals reaching the Supreme Court."
I'm editing to remove reference to "the Supreme Court."
First, there is no citation to this alleged "fact" and the sentence is unclear as to exactly which court it refers to.  Second (assuming this refers to the USSC), one does not usually appeal to the United States Supreme Court; instead, the correct procedure is a "petition for certiorari."  Third, merely petitioning the USSC for cert is legally meaningless since the vast majority (~99%) of petitions are rejected without expressing any opinion on the matter and that rejection cannot be cited as precedential by any other court.
If, in fact, the justices of the USSC provided some meaningful opinion or other statement about this case, I would be willing to reconsider.  But as is, and without citation, this statement is legally meaningless.
Techielaw (talk) 23:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Identification of Courts 

message: Up until today I had never heard of ISKCON, so apologies if I am way off base here-- but someone in the comments section of a video I was watching earlier referred to one of the video's subjects as an "iskconite" (noting the individual's "tutsi mala"). Typing the term "iskconite" into a search engine yielded surprisingly few straightforward results, so I ended up having to do quite a bit of clicking and skimming of random articles until I finally realized it was actually a derivative of an acronym (being, ISKCON). "Iskconite" was all lowercase in the comment I orginally read it in, so that probably didn't help matters much. 
Anyway, if "iskconite" is indeed an acceptable term to use to describe ISKCON devotees (and not just that commenter's faux pas), would there be any objections to adding the term somewhere in the article (e.g., "sometimes referred to as "iskconite(s)" or something along those lines so that when typed into a search engine, this article will show up higher at the top of the results list? 
My thoughts behind this addition would be to possibly help direct future users who stumbled upon the term with minimal context and had trouble finding out what it meant (as was the difficulty I encountered as one who is generally unfamiliar with nearly everything ISKCON and ISKCON-adjacent topics).
Albeit, even after reading the article I am still a bit confused as to exactly what ISKCON's beliefs are. (Perhaps shifting the temple locations section lower on the page in favor of moving up some of the other sections that contribute more toward the answer to the fundamental "what is ISKCON?" question?)
Again, I had never heard of ISKCON before until today, so I apologize if I have misspoke in my ignorance. (I am an American who admittedly does not have much interest in organized religion beyond casual curiosity (as well as an overarching desire to acquire knowledge/educate myself in general). 
I fixed a few punctuation/grammar related typos as I saw them while I was reading the article, but as I obviously am very unfamiliar with the topic in general, I wasn't sure if the term "iskconite" would be an appropriate inclusion. I hope that all makes sense. KryptonKestrel (talk) 08:28, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible inclusion of the term "iskconite"? 

message: There is a great deal of interest among scholars of religion today in the prevalence of sexual abuse scandals in religious organizations.  I plan on adding relevant insights from that scholarship to this page.  I hope that these insights add context; it's not as if ISCKON is the only community dealing with this.  
Ziegenbalg66 (talk) 16:49, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  new scholarship on ISCKON school abuse