Talk:Rainiai massacre

message: :The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 08:38, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Rainiai massacre is indeed the best name here. The word "massacre" on itself is not POV, it merely explains the situation when many people are killed at one place; and it was without trial, thus not really executions. It was similar to Katyn massacre and that article is titled massacre, similarly to many other articles in Wikipedia. Furthermore, what is also important, "Rainiai massacre" gets more hits on Google. Please discuss name changes. Thanks in advance. Burann 12:34, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Katyn massacre was not a massacre, as was many times argued by different editors on the appropriate talk page. It is the name which has stuck in English usage. Many executions of the Stalinist period were not preceded by trials, this didn't make them "massacres" however. Please stop silly revert warring and do something useful. --Ghirla | talk 12:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And the case is similar here, Rainiai massacre as well stuck in the English usage more than Rainiai executions as google search easily proves. Naming a killing of Poles to be a massacre, while a similar killing of non-Poles just 'executions' is a clear pro-Polish bia. Burann 12:51, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You comparisons are not appropriate. Katyn claimed the lives of thousands, of the entire generation of Polish intelligetsia. When 70 people are executed by the country's legitimate authorities, it is not massacre. It is repression and/or execution. I would support the move of Katyn Massacre to a more neutral title, however. --Ghirla | talk 12:53, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: However, as with examples I given here and at Medininkai massacre, you can see that the number of those killed is not the main indication on werether the event is a massacre or not; it is more how it was carried away what is important, werether it fits the description of "massacre". And similarly, massacres carried out by legitimate authorities can still be and are considered massacres - e.g. Tlatelolco massacre. It doesn't matters who are those massacred - fascists, communists, Jews, blacks, Poles, nationalists, Russians, Lithuanians, students, elders or such - for that definition. If you support moving of Katyn massacre, then you should attempt to do that also. Burann 13:04, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll accept the opinion of community. Let's see what other editors think. I don't know anything about those executed - whether they were guerilla fighters, members of the Lithuanian military resistance, or those sympathizing with the Nazis? If such was the case, then it was not a massacre. As best I understand, the term denotes the killing of civilians, usually without any political background, as, for example, was the case in Novocherkassk. --Ghirla | talk 13:07, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The account of communist Domas Rocius explains about some of those killed and their crimes. They weren't belonging to any groups that you have mentioned. Some of them seem to have had large ammounts of land prior to 1940 summer (according to the account), others took part in politics then (e.g. were members of parliament, had adminsitrative or legislative jobs). As such, they were arrested once the Soviets came and maybe wouldn't have been executed (probably would have been deported to Siberia(?)), but the revolt and war, as is stated in the article, made the leaders of the prison guards to organize the massacre so that these people would not be freed. As for Lithuania not taking part in World War 2 - Soviet Union and Nazi Germany definitely took part in it, and Lithuania was under control of these countries for most of WW2, including 1941. So, we have to do voting as for the name of the article? Burann 13:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's how such edit conflicts are normally solved. --Ghirla | talk 13:32, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok then. Correct the poll if it is not according to wiki style. Burann 13:48, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Renaming discussion

message: http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/telz/telz3.html Xx236 (talk) 09:13, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-Jewish repressions 

message: An image used in this article, File:Rainiai.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 19 May 2012 
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This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 10:13, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:Rainiai.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: not sure if the problem is a typo or the source has changed  since it was originally, but not able to verify this so far as a source for the Soviets saying that one person is too ill to stand trial. Another source for that remains, moving problem source here for discussion: Free Baltic News Archives 
 Elinruby (talk) 06:38, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference problem 

message: The current version of this article says: "The Rainiai massacre was the mass murder of between 70,000 and 80,000 Lithuanian political prisoners by the NKVD." This number is clearly highly exaggerated. Earlier versions of this same article said: "The Rainiai massacre was the mass murder of between 70 and 80 Lithuanian political prisoners by the NKVD." It seems someone editing the page has exaggerated the death toll by adding three zeroes to the number (multiplied it by a magnitude of one thousand). When you compare this massacre to similar NKVD prisoner massacres that took place in other countries at the same time, the death toll was 193 in the NKVD prisoner massacre in Tartu, Estonia, and it was not more than 9,000 in total for Ukraine, which is a much larger country than Lithuania. Tjörvi Schiöth (talk) 17:02, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exaggerrated death toll