Talk:Bowline

message: Commonly used in sailing small craft to secure the top of the main sheet to the main line. I have been sailing since I was 5 years old and never heard of the main line! If you are going to tie top (?) the main sheet anywhere it could be on to the boom. (Note for non sailors the main sheet is a rope controlling the mainsail).
Suggestions: A bowline is commonly used to bend a halyard on to the head of a sail, or may may be used to bend jib sheets to the clew of the jib.  Billlion 22:35, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main Line?? 

message: After reading the assertion that the new method of tying the knot makes a more secure knot, it seems to me that a knot with different properties should be described as a different knot, not just a different way of tying the bowline.
I suspect that the new knot may have some unexpected / undiscovered problems when compared to the classic, well-understood knot that has been used for centures.
I am concerned that innocent people could look for the well-regarded "bowline," inadvertently use the new knot instead, and become injured in the process.
I am concerned that this article is written by "fans" of the "cool new Jedi knot" and does not present NPOV.
: There are only two types of bowlines: end-on-the-inside and end-on-the-outside. See the discussion above. Both methods for tying the bowline (bunny and "Jedi") can lead to both types, depending on the direction in which you feed the free end. Once the knot is tied, it is impossible to tell whether you used a bunny or Jedi method.
: In fact it is easy to see that the Jedi method is equivalent to the bunny method. In "bunny language", the Jedi method works as follows: "Pull the tree down the hole, take the bunny around it, then pull the tree back out of the hole". This is the same as if the bunny had come out of the hole, gone around the tree, then back down the hole. It's not really a different method at all! My only slight criticism of the Jedi method is that it's more difficult to see whether the result will be end-on-the-inside or end-on-the-outside. Mtford 09:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Safety risks of Jedi / Benjai? 

message: It would be good to mention some problems with the bowline.  It is a very good knot that has many uses but is not without problems.  Personally, I wouldn't use it in a situation where if it untied someone would get hurt or killed.  I think it's main feature is that it can carry a heavy load without binding.  We should at least mention that a stopper knot is recommended if safety is a concern.  --Nascheme 06:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Safety issues 

message: there's another meaning besides the knot. 
A ship is said to be on a taut bowline when the bowlines on the leeches of the sail are hauled as taut as possible for sailing near the wind. With everything stretched as flat as possible for close-hauled sailing. (Kemp dictionary of yachting) So we should at some point write a page for this, and add a disambig link at the top of this article.
-- Akb4 09:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: other meaning

message: It says "Used by climbers - though less popular now than it once was - see below."  But what "below", exactly, is it referring to?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.231.59.254 (talk) 19:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Below? 

message: For reference:
Image:Palstek innen.jpg|Inside bowline (#1010)
Image:Palstek aussen.jpg|Outside bowline (#1034 1/2)(yes, 1/2!)
I moved this statement regarding the relative security of the inside and outside bowline here for discussion:
:"A variant with the 'rabbit' running the other way [i.e. an inside bowline] is occasionally preferred, but is much less secure with a shifting load:"
There seems to be a long running lack of consensus in knotting references about which one of these knots is generally preferred security-wise. Ashley refers to the outside bowline as "distinctly inferior" to the inside bowline.  However there are also sources (don't have them handy at the moment) indicating that the Dutch Navy (at some unspecified point in history) mandated the outside variant be used, thus leading to one of its names in English as the "Dutch Marine Bowline".  The reasons usually given for each preference seem to focus on the possibility of capsizing the knot if the bight portion of the knot is snagged.  The outside variant seems vulnerable if being dragged across edges or other objects, while the inside variant would be more likely to have the loop/encircled object be the source of snagging. (perhaps justifying the statement above regarding shifting loads...)  In any case, some references need to be cited on this topic, even if they are in disagreement with each other.  --Dfred (talk) 16:48, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inside vs. outside bowline and security 

message: Since we're already delving into the details...  Regarding the naming and organization of all the "bowliform" knots (if I may use such a word :), there are actually 16 distinct simple loop knots with a sheet bend-like structure.   Accounting for chirality (handedness) there are 8 remaining forms.  Each one those has an inside and outside form, leaving 4 more basic forms.  Of the remaining 4, only 2 have desirable/useful characteristics for practical use.  (ref. Turner and van de Griend, History and Science of Knots, p. 125-129.)  These remaining two forms are the bowline which has 4 variations (2x handedness, 2x inside/outside) and the Eskimo bowline which also has these same four combinations.  Currently the outside bowline has a separate article, Cowboy bowline, but it may make sense to merge with this article.  Comments welcome...
And, incidentally, regarding handedness and naming: Ashley confused the issue by calling his knot "#1034 1/2" the "Left-handed bowline" -- which is why I've avoided using his name in this discussion.  I suppose it's possible he may have been using left-handed more in the sense of "wrong handed" than in a topological sense.
This information should eventually make its way into the article.   --Dfred (talk) 16:48, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming, handedness, other variants, mergers, etc.

message: Can't believe I've only seen one passing mention of this on the discussion page; it was one of the primary methods taught in my troop when I was growing up, and I'd probably still be struggling with the knot if not for it.
While I don't have any diagrams prepped or anything for it, the method is relatively simple:
# Wrap the rope around your back with the free end in your right hand and the rest of the line in your left, with the left arm extended a bit.
# Put your right wrist on top of the line in your left hand, and roll your right hand under and into the loop formed around your waist.  Right palm should be upward when finished this step
# Slip the end in your right hand under the line in your left (keep right hand above the line)
# Pull the end in your right hand through the loop formed about your right wrist
67.188.137.241 (talk) 21:18, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  One-handed method 

message: Per user comment http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bowline&action=historysubmit&diff=327799469&oldid=314873641 I removed most of this text and photo pending editing by someone with more expertise. Gerardw (talk) 03:57, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yosemite Bowline 

message: This seems rather high.  Most of the references I am familiar with put the efficiency of a bowline around 50-60%.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.41.156.201 (talk) 16:15, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  77% effeciency? 

message: Back when I was in the Navy, in '72, a friend of mine taught me how to tie a bowline while somebody else was holding both ends of the rope.  I'm not talking about the knot known as a bowline on the bight, I'm talking about a real bowline.  And, once you learn the trick, it's easier than the regular method and about as fast.  I don't have any illustrations, and I'm not an artist.  If I can get some drawings done, or small enough images I'll add it.  Just thought I'd mention it here first, in case anybody else has questions, comments or images to offer.JDZeff (talk) 20:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bowline, tied on the bight 

message: In Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World p20, Lionel Casson states that the sheets are not bow lines, as in not ropes used to hold a square sail into position. Casson doesn't say anything about the knots. I'm removing the text about the use of bowlines on the Khufu Ship being unproven. Vagary (talk) 23:41, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khufu Ship 

message: Looking at the set of rabbit pictures, I now understand why I was confused. The first image shows a little tail if rope above. This is the standing rope- the rope firmly attached to the bitter end, or stanchion. The bight leads off the page where it appears to contiue. So which of the two is Mister Rabbit. Better to recrop the image or use a new one. I start the poem with- Loop the rope over itself and let it drop away. Mr Rabbbit comes forward out of the hole, goes round the standing tree and hopped back down his hole --ClemRutter (talk) 17:09, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is quite unclear what the standing end is in those images. Made some hopefully better diagrams. It has the working end in a different color, also some kind of arrow-ish texture pointing in the direction of the working end, in the hope that this helps a bit. Buz11 (talk) 21:56, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Still whinging about images

message: There is no good reason to use the word "eye" (in quotation marks, or not) in the first sentence.
There is every good reason to just say clearly what is meant. There is no advantage to using a metaphor when direct language could be much clearer.50.205.142.50 (talk) 15:19, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: agree. replaced with loop. Cobanyastigi (talk) 06:26, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad first sentence 

message: The Ontario Bowline is a secure and useful loop knot. Whereas most Bowline loops can spill, drift, and gradually come undone as tension is repeatedly relieved or the line jiggled, the Ontario Bowline traps the working end and resists coming apart. I use this loop knot on my sailboat for joining my main sheet to the becket block shackled to the boom. I tie it in spring and untie it in fall. It is subject to large impulsive forces (from wind gusts and jibing), steady loads (when close-hauled) as well as slackness (when tacking or not sailing), yet the knot remains unchanged and dependable throughout the sailing season.
The Yosemite Bowline serves the same purpose as the Ontario, but the Yosemite has more turns and mass, presenting a possible danger as it swings violently just inches above my head.
The Ontario Bowline can be found in The Knot Book, by Geoffrey Budworth, 1985, Sterling Publishing, p. 106  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dadnut (talk • contribs) 20:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ontario Bowline 

message: The article states the knot is jamming. But it also tells it is easy to untie. This needs explanation. Selkänahka (talk) 03:06, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jamming? 

message: 1,2 – an overhand loop is made into the standing part which will act as the rabbit's hole.
Would this not be clearer? Starting with an underhand loop requires a different procedure to tie the knot. Gavinkwhite (talk) 10:19, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Instructions for Tying