Talk:Great Work (Thelema)

message: I'm wondering what the difference is, between the Thelema article, and this one. I'm going to suggest that it be merged. Zos 19:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: This article appears to use only Crowley as a source. That can hardly be NPOV. The article needs to be improved by the use of third-party sources, for example, Lon DuQuette's book, Rodney Orpheus' book might have good information, though they are still "in-universe". If even more neutral sources could be found, that would be even better. 130.237.152.213 (talk) 23:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A few contrasting opinions at all would be pretty nice. Seriously, even explaining the position of the Catholic church to Thelema would be good enough. As it is, the article might as well be a pamphlet by the O.T.O., it's just so empty of all critical evaluation. --84.186.186.110 (talk) 20:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The problem is reliable sources.  Most articles on this topic are from an personal, experiential point of view. jonathon (talk) 21:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I definitely think this needs alternate POV. Right now it presents the K&C of the HGA and Crossing the Abyss as fundamental parts of Thelemic mysticism, whereas they are actually parts of the A.A. mystical system - not the same thing! --Rodneyorpheus (talk) 16:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using Crowley as only source 

message: Thelemic mysticism is a complex mystical path designed to do two interrelated things: to learn one's unique True Will and to achieve union with the All. The set of techniques for doing so falls under Crowley's term Magick.
The words above, quoted from the article, describe Magick as a practice whose purpose is the achievement of the goals of Mysticism. 
The premice is inaccurate because, in the scope of Crowleyan Thelema, Magick and Mysticism are seen as two contrary things: the essence of Magick is division, and that of Mysticism dissolution; the Magickal philosophy is either dualistic (2) or pluralistic (2+), and the Mystical either monistic (1) or nihilistic (0); Magick is driven by the “Will to Live” (see “The World as Will and Representation” by Arthur Schopenhauer), whereas Mysticism is driven by the “Will to Die” (see „Todestrieb“ or “death drive”, a Freudian concept). 
The practice is dimorphic, one directing outward, and the other inward. Compare this with extroversion and introversion as understood in Jungian psychoanalysis. Consider “Apollonian and Dionysian”. 
For reference, I'll mention “The Antecedents of Thelema”, Crowley's commentary on verse 26 of the second chapter of Liber Legis, and the essay “The Dangers of Mysticism”. Mortimer Lanin (talk) 00:20, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Magick versus Mysticism 

message: Ok, the page is moved and the lead is installed. The subheading "Thelemic mysticism" is just for convenience while we figure out how to reorg/present the material. I left the milestones heading outside of it, because basically the current article structure is Method Result. I think I will take the history section out of TM so we have History, Method (Thelemic mysticism), Results (Milestones). Skyerise (talk) 00:24, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've trimmed Great Work (Hermeticism)#Thelema down to a brief summary. I'll let you work on the rest for now so we don't step on each others' toes by editing simultaneously, but I'll be back tomorrow to see what's new and sort out anything you've decided to leave for me to do. -- Scyrme (talk) 00:42, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty much done for now. Check out the reorg of the navbar. You like? Skyerise (talk) 00:57, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replaced lead with [[Great Work (Hermeticism)#Thelema]] 

message: Per this link, it does not appear this paper has ever been published in a journal. The title doesn't turn up much. My assumption is that it is a master's thesis and not RS. Leaving it for now, but we should have a better ref for whatever it supports. Skyerise (talk) 01:09, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swan reference 

message: Looking around, the 'best', and I use that word loosely, material is at Thelema#True Will. As it's also a major item here, I now think improving the existing True Will, then writing a better summary both here and in Thelema, is the way to go. Unless anyone disagrees, I'll remove the merge tags soon. Skyerise (talk) 15:11, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  True Will 

message: *  The article frequently refers to the "adept" when it basically means "follower [of Thelema]" or "anyone attempting this". I think it's bad for the tone; this is supposed an encyclopedia not a guide for aspiring initiates. Arguably it's appropriate jargon, but I'm not sure. What do you think? I'm leaning towards using ctrl+f to find and replace it. -- Scyrme (talk) 05:32, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: *  Adherent? Practitioner? Maybe both depending on context? Skyerise (talk) 11:55, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: * I've gone with "practitioner" for most instances. Reads better now, I think. -- Scyrme (talk) 04:36, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Adept"