Talk:Public school

message: I've removed "In the United States, most public schools are still called public schools." which seems to be nothing but a tautology, and "(and so a reversion to one original meaning of private education)", which doesn't seem to make sense. If anyone kinows what these mean, please feel free to explain in the article. -- Oliver P. 21:21 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 ALSO, Their is nothing in the article soo...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.216.107.210 (talk) 19:27, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Tautology

message: I've just realised after trying to disambiguate links to this page, that there is no Public school (US) pages. Furthermore there are nearly 40 links that mean public school in the British sense and only 5 that mean it in the US sense. So why has the UK sense been pushed off onto a page of it's own rather than the other way around? Mintguy 10:10 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)
: Because one could (and I may well eventually) write several tomes on the UK meaning; as it is a source of possible confusion, it helps to have a disambiguation page. Think of this as an extension of Differences between American English and British English. As Oliver said above, "if the American usage ever gets more material [...] [this] could then just be a normal disambiguation page".
: James F. 11:48 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)
:: You miss my point. There is NO disambiguated page for the US meaning. It is not disambiguated. Nine times out of ten times, when a person creates a link for using the words "public school" they mean public school (UK), it makes sense to have this page with that meaning with a suitable disambiguation block at the top directing to public school (US) for the other sense. Mintguy 17:31 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)
::: No, I don't think I did; my counter-point was that this is a temporary state of affairs betwixt having a proper disambiguation page here and having none - we have instead a partial disambiguation page.
::: I admit that it might make more sense to have the more 'popular' definition (id est, what is now at Public school (UK)) moved to Public school, and the one less so (id est, the short commentary at Public school) moved to Public school (US), but then we'd get jumped on by the largest minority of Wikipedia readers - those from the US.
::: I never meant to imply that this was a satisfactory state of affairs, merely a workable one.
::: James F. 03:37 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Also, remember that there are schools in other countries than the UK and the US. If I wanted to write an article about secondary education in, say, Poland, then how should I distinguish between private and State-run schools? Should I refer to the latter as "public schools" (which may be confusing for the Britons) or "state schools" (which may be confusing for the Americans, since in Poland the "State" is the whole nation, not a subdivision)? How should I refer to schools run by local authorites, cooperatives, religious orders, etc? Please help. --Kpalion (talk) 14:35, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Using the term "state schools" will not be confusing for most of us Americans, since the term isn't used here for anything other than public schools or universities run by the states. --68.80.78.11 19:46, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Public school (US)

message: I took out this sentence: Due to state funding, however, this fee is typically much less than at private institutions, particularly for residents of the state in which the school is found.
According to most studies, including those by the Federal and State governments, State Universities are more expensive than Private Universities. That is, the Private Universities usually have a higher Sticker Price, but what you actually pay out of pocket is less.  I will provide a reference shortly.
:Can you post references to these studies?  further discussion Jkiang 18:54, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistake about tuition 

message: I'm not entirely sober, so bear with me a moment... I'm coming to this as a result of a question brought on Talk:American English.  We here in the US don't regard the British idea of what "Public School" means as a matter of further British Imperialism.  When Brits try to foist their ideas of the definition upon us, we instead take it as yet another instance of their pushing obstinate arrogant ignorance upon the rest of the world.  I know this is a view most of the rest of the world is too ready to place upon Americans, but that's how we view it; point made.  That said, I went to "public school" in the US, and what it means here is "schools funded by the government in order to fulfill the mandate by the government that children must receive X-amount of instruction".  There it is, for what it's worth.  Over and out.  Tomer TALK 07:03, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outside view about naming argument 

message: Is this a disambiguation article? The only real option is to go to Independent school (UK). Maybe it should become an article, and lose the  tag.--Commander Keane 16:42, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Tag removed.--Commander Keane 00:02, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is a disambiguation article? 

message: So do we somewhere have an article on free or low-cost, government-provided, roughly K-12 education? I don't know exactly what we should title it, but it would seem a very important article, and I cannot find a link from this page to anything like that. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:20, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Found it. It's Public education. - Jmabel | Talk 02:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  State schools, or whatever 

message: I think it is best we try to restructure the article a bit by region.
I think the English Speaking Nations part is fine, but needs a bit more depth. The inclusion of Nations should go by political region and geographic region.
One possible structure would be:
*Public Schools in English speaking nations
*Northern/Central America
**Canada
**United States of America
***Virgin Islands
**Mexico
**Cuba
*Europe
**UK
**France
**Germany
**Denmark
**Italy
*Asia
**Central Asia
***Japan
***China
***Afganistan (Yes, it is part of Asia, not the middle east)
**Asia Minor
***etc.
Each entry should be a short summery of an article to which it links. Can we agree on this? --OrbitOne 00:01, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restructuring of this article 

message: #Following the regional structure, we need to add more regions to this list with a short summery of the school system; best if it is a summery of an article about the public schools of the region listed.
#The pros/cons of public schools vrs private schools.
#An official ranking of school systems around the world, must be refered from an authoritive source (Read UN).
--OrbitOne 01:06, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What needs to be done 

message: Most of the material is taken from Wikipedia. I think it is good enough. --OrbitOne  [Talk|Babel] 10:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New additions 

message: "In England and Wales, "public school" refers exclusively to fee-charging independent secondary schools that are members of the Headmasters Conference - see the article Independent school (UK) for that sense of the term."
As the article linked makes clear there are differing definitions.Independent_school_%28UK%29#Differing_definitions
Being a member does not make a public school or absense deny it that status. It's shorthand not an absolute so we shouldn't state it as an absolute. I will try to soften the definitionAlci12 10:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article states as fact a matter of dispute 

message: What I haven't found on the brief perusal of this talk page is anybody talking about WHY the difference between Britain(that means Scotland too!) and the rest of the world?
Scotland and England had a series of grammar schools from the 15c. where the better off sent their brats. In those inequal societies one could only vote if one paid enough taxes over a certain level. Exactly the same as Greek and Roman Democracies, where a third-ish of the population could vote only because they owned property. These were known as the 'Public'. ergo Public School in Britain.Brendandh 03:24, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any takers on this highly realistic and true argument?
Sorry, no. Although another article deticated to this subject is worthy of your time, making a lenghy section for that woul detract from the point of this article. It is notable, I agree, but it doesn't fit in with the scope of this artle. --OrbitOne  [Talk|Babel] 21:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fine institutions

message: This edit cites nothing and more or less reverses what we say about Scotland. It's also terribly written. I do not know much about the use of this term in Scotland, but I certainly do not trust the unreferenced word of an anonymous editor who can't even write English decently. Can someone please sort this out and provide a reference? - Jmabel | Talk 00:50, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scotland 

message: The article's mention of Lord Wimsey (a fictional character, for God's sake) disparaging Winchester College has no place in this article.  It is used as some sort of explanation of the varying "desirabilities" of British Public schools.  Winchester is among the most presitigous of British public schools and simply finding one (not even real) person that doesn't like it isn't enough to state it is less desirable than any other school.  I have heard real people say disparaging things about virtually all public schools; the statement is completely pointless and I am removing it.--Zoso Jade 12:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: British public school reputation nonsense

message: This article should be split as the UK and non UK meanings are radically different from each other. I propose to split it into Public school (United Kingdom) and Public school (state) making this an disambig page  Any objections? SqueakBox 17:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see the point of that, as Public school (state) would be so unspecific. I should also point out that the Scots don't use the term in the same way as the rest of the UK, so Public school (United Kingdom) is a misnomer. Xn4 11:49, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Split

message: The photograph is of Bradford Grammar School, not Bradford General SchoolBill Tegner 23:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bradford Grammar School 

message: I altered the first paragraph a little since it marginalises the English use of the term without any proof that such use is in the minority; not to mention that marginalising entire countries is irritating and just asking for trouble.
For example, one comment in this discussion says that Australia uses the term in the same was as the English. I included the reference to the commonwealth, since it's a fair guess that it is the influence of the English that is the reason it's members use it in that way.
...and, no, you can't say it's the British use of the term, since (it is claimed) the Scots don't use it in the same way. In the same way, 'UK' doesn't work. However, I think 'Public school(England)' might work - or perhaps 'Public school(EN)'?
Davidmaxwaterman
89.242.71.223 09:05, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  English(adj) use 

message: I think that public high school should be merged into this article.  It makes no sense to have to repeat everything that already says on the public school article to the public high school.  --Nitsirk 17:05, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge 

message: :Image:DoonSchool-mainbld.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 07:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:DoonSchool-mainbld.jpg

message: In the above posts there's some honest confusion about the term public school, particularly in the UK, and I thought the following might help:
In the UK the focus is on access.
No-one is puzzled by the term Public House; no-one expects it to be managed by the state, and no-one expects free beer to be served there, and for further example no-one expects public parking to be free.  Continuing that analogy no-one would call residents-only parking 'public', rather you'd call it 'restricted'. In that sense 'public school' (U.S.) looks anomalous, as it isn't actually available to the public, but to a catchment area, and in that sense is 'restricted' and certainly not 'public'.  Whether you pay isn't the issue.
In U.S. usage the issue is very much whether you pay.  So in this case the UK meaning seems anomalous or contradictory.  Even though... your local municipal swimming pool is 'public', and yet you pay to enter, just to bring us full circle.   
So the word public is a package of two concepts: publicly accessible or free of charge.  Neither is 'wrong', even though both can be refined by further information: UK Public schools can be clarified by calling them 'fee-paying' and U.S. Public schools by calling them 'free'. 
It's quite balanced 'intellectually', if you like. I'm guessing any tendency to prefer one or the other is just cultural or habitual.  I can't make up my mind atm if the article reflects that or not. Hakluyt bean (talk) 03:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terminology 

message: Should there be a criticism section? (Yeeh (talk) 19:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Criticism sections are discouraged: Wikipedia:Criticism#Criticism_in_a_.22Criticism.22_section. I'm not sure what the rationale for a criticism section in this article is anyway. - Aucitypops (talk) 04:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section? 

message: The article reads, "The term public then distinguished between education in a school generally provided by a church and open to public applicants, and schools where admission was restricted to children from a particular aristocratic class, such as City of London Freemen's School." This is contrary to an explanation of the term public school I've seen elsewhere; to wit, that it is public in contrast to a pupil educated privately by a tutor. Can someone provice a citation for the former? — Robert Greer (talk) 12:41, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: Things like "One of the schools in France" are awfully vague. If anyone knows what schools are depicted in the images, more specific captions would be a great improvement. - Jmabel | Talk 19:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captions 

message: It's not clear how common the UK usage of public school is in the commonwealth. It's definitely not universal as the article suggested. For example, it's not used in Malaysia, Singapore, New Zealand and from what I can tell, Hong Kong. The only examples the article gives of countries following the UK usage is India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan. Nil Einne (talk) 01:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commonwealth 

message: It seems more fitting for Public high school to be a sub-section of Public school. Please discuss reasons why this merger should or should not happen below. -Gr0ff (talk) 22:56, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to merge them, merge them yourself. Don't sit there and gripe about it. Wilkos (talk) 19:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be happy to merge the articles! Thanks for your support Wilkos! As you know, it is important that changes of this magnatude are discussed with other wikipedians first. It is important that a consensus is reached before merging two articles. This is the wikipedia way! Does anyone else agree with Wilkos and I that these articles should be merged? -Gr0ff (talk) 15:25, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Strong oppose to merging PS into PHS if that is what was proposed. The term "public school" has very little to do with "public high school" in Europe. Kittybrewster  ☎ 18:50, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

text: The primary meaning of "Public school", as well as the lingustically intuitive one, is the everywhere in the world except England/Wales and NI meaning. There should of course be a hatnote directing to something like Public school (England), but wikipedia is not a dictionary. The English topic is covered at Independent school (UK), and it is far from clear what the difference between "Public school" and "public education" is (these aren't articles about the buildings of course). Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 23:22, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal

message: why are independent schools called public schools when in fact they are private?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.120.169 (talk) 09:33, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well according to this article "The term public then distinguished a school open to public applicants, then generally provided by a church or monastery, from the schools in private households which were then more usual.". Please see the reference desk (Wikipedia:Reference desk) and not article talk pages for any future questions of this type. Guest9999 (talk) 19:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Britain 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:State school which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 14:01, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:27, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Public school →  – This is a follow up on Talk:State_school#Requested move 16 December 2021. State school is the primary topic for this term. PISA refers to a public schools as  (). In google scholar, most search results also refer to state schools (). It is only in England and Wales where for historic reasons some exclusive private schools are referred to as "public schools" (see Public school (United Kingdom)). We should follow the naming most of the world follows, and create a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to State school. Vpab15 (talk) 15:15, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Disambiguation has been notified of this discussion. Vpab15 (talk) 15:39, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Schools has been notified of this discussion. Vpab15 (talk) 15:40, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 22 July 2022