Talk:Metropolitan and non-metropolitan counties of England

message: This article is a mess!  It starts off with a sections called "current" metropolitan and non-metropolitan counties which has a map showing all the unitary authorities.  These are not counties and their inclusion in the extended ceremonial counties (based on the metropolitan and non-metropolitan counties of the same name) proves this.  Yorkshire Phoenix 12:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. This article is current and correct. With reference to the LGA1972, unitary authorities are legislated as ceasing to form part of their original non-metropolitan county and forming a new non-metropolitan county of a single district with the exception of the districts of Berkshire which are not non-metropolitan counties, and this is reflected in this article. MRSC 22:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But the "current counties" map suggests there are hundreds of counties, which are mostly just towns?  Didn't the former Cleveland districts "return" to North Yorkshire and Co Durham?  (I say "return" because prior to 1974 they were part of North Riding County Council, not North Yorkshire.)  Yorkshire Phoenix 08:09, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be so if the article were called "Counties of England", but it isn't.  MRSC 10:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes. Under legislation the unitary authorities are non-metropolitan counties as defined by the LGA1972. Unfortunately it is not that simple and they also have the status of non-metropolitan districts. So you could include them in an infobox as county or district or both. In practice they are physically more like a district than a county (having no sub divisions) so I'd be inclined to put them at district level. MRSC 11:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Current metropolitan and non-metropolitan counties

message: Can I suggest that the following is slightly reworded for clarity? "On April 1, 1996, the unpopular counties of Avon, Humberside and Cleveland were abolished and their districts turned into unitary authorities." Avon's six districts became only four unitary auhtorities (two mergers of two). SP-KP 00:33, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unitary Authorities in ex-Avon 

message: I thought Tyne and Wear had been abolished? Why is it still on the map as though it exists? doktorb wordsdeeds 14:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Metropolitan county councils were abolished in 1986 but not the metropolitan counties themselves.  In Yorkshire and Merseyside the names seem to have stuck after the councils were abolished, but perhaps due to the awkwardness of the name Tyne and Wear people seem to say Tyneside instead (much like the way Teesside was often used in lieu of the official county name, Cleveland).  North of the river I expect some have reverted to using Northumberland but I've never heard anyone from Gateshead, Sunderland, South Shields, Washington, etc say they are from Co Durham, and was surprised myself that that was the historic county there.  Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 08:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah right. A little context here - I work for a contractor doing streetworks on behalf of BT. We deal with the councils in "Tyne and Wear" - Newcastle, Gateshead etc... and we're always looking for decent maps to show the council areas. This would have been perfect but for the Tyne and Wear reference. Does Wiki have a council area map showing Newcastle, Gateshead, South Tyneside etc? doktorb wordsdeeds 10:52, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's funny: most maps I've seen show metropolitan boroughs and unitary authorities as though they were counties.  Most articles for districts and boroughs do show the boundaries, but they do so on a very plain pink map showing only the boundaries of entities at the same level.  I expect this is no use to you as you would need maps showing roads, rivers, etc and the local authority boundaries (so you can see where they are on the ground, not just as a vague area of the UK).  Have you tried multimap?  At certain zoom levels it uses 1:50,000 and 1:25,000 OS maps, which I believe will show local council boundaries.  Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 11:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Subdivisions of England may have the map you want.  Morwen - Talk 11:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wicked - now, all I need is  with the names and numbers and we're sorted =D doktorb wordsdeeds 15:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This PDF may help: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/geography/downloads/uk_laduacty.pdf MRSC 22:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Tyne and Wear]] 

message: I tried to update the article so it would reflect the 2009 structural changes to local government in England (but the map should ideally be changed to split Cheshire and Bedfordshire). I also changed the text to state that the non-metropolitan counties of Cheshire and Bedfordshire were split in two, before noticing that this had been changed before. I don't know if my wording is the least confusing one (it's confusing in general with non-metropolitan and ceremonial counties that don't coincide), but if the division of Cheshire and Bedfordshire into unitary authorities should be stated in terms of ceremonial counties, surely Cheshire is divided into four non-metropolitan counties now? //Essin (talk) 10:59, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  2009 reforms 

message: This article says that of the 49 unitary authorities which are also non-metropolitan counties, 48 have a district council and no county council, and the other (Isle of Wight) has a county council and no district council.
From looking at the legislation enacting the recent reforms, it seems that Durham, Northumberland, Cornwall, Shropshire and Wiltshire also have a county council with no district council. Can anyone confirm this?  Yamor2 (talk) 12:11, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on 2009 reforms 

message: Changes on 1 April 2019 and again in 2020:
2019 structural changes to local government in England
Maps too. Sumorsǣte (talk) 08:36, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs updating