Talk:Kludge

message: Quote: "Dutch kloog, Swedish Klag, Danish Klog, Gothic Klaugen, Lettish Kladnis and Sanskrit Veklaunn"
I think Phineas Burling was misquoated or he probably doesn't know what he is talking about. "Klag" in Swedish doesn't mean anything, in 1685 it was used as a strange bending of the verb "klaga" which means 'complain'. It sure doesnt mean 'smart' or 'witty'. I suspect the same with the -alleged- danish "Klog"...
But it sure sounds convincing? I think someone made this up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.71.219.253 (talk) 09:08, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The Swedish "klok" and Danish "klog" seem to be borrowings from Middle Low German, btw... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:17, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Phineas Burling

message: Regarding pronounciation... Merriam-Webster is the first I've seen acknowledge the 'fudge'-style pronounciation, so that's good to have in there.  But listing 'rouge' along with 'huge' could be misleading since they end in different sounds.  Rouge is almostly always pronounced 'rüzh', not 'rüj', and no dictionary that I've seen acknowledges kludge (or kluge) as 'klüzh'.  Thus, I 'huge' and 'fudge' are probably sufficient to cover the two ways to say the word.
Ds13 21:30, 2004 Feb 23 (UTC)
One more thing I forgot to include.  A few years ago I knew a guy who had a huge die-cutting press, quite a behemoth, and some decades old.  The brand name on it was Kluge. ;Bear 21:11, 2004 Apr 8 (UTC)
:Interesting. Here in the UK, I have never ever heard anyone pronounce 'kludge' like 'huge'. Only like 'fudge'. Maybe this is a US/UK difference. (Or maybe I have been hearing the 'huge' pronunciation, but just didn't realize what they were saying. :-) ) --DudeGalea 06:36, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have taken the liberty to edit the remarks on pronunciation.  It was remarked that the pronunciation "kluge" seems odd given the spelling "kludge", but if the rest of the article is correct in stating that the "kluge" pronunciation is original, it is in fact the spelling "kludge" that is odd.  However, the sound of a large body hitting the water would more closely approximate "kludge" than "kluge", so this change is debatable.  Another (and safe) change I made is to provide a better approximation of the German pronunciation - clook wasn't very accurate. Rp 13:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Australian here, and I've always pronounced it "klooj" and spelled it "kludge". The "kluge" spelling reads to me as "kloog" like the lights.  -- Resuna (talk) 14:45, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

text: techieguyMIT1968 (newbie, apologies if this post is non-standard) Regarding entymology: when I was at MIT 1964-1968, much of my time (instead of studying, but that is another matter) was spent at the MIT Hobby Shop, which had a Kluge motor-driven hand-fed letterpress, and the company name was very prominent. It was a rather incredible contraption, you had place the paper on the platen while ink rollers were inking the type, and remove it after the type was pressed against the platen (and not get your hand crushed). Since TMRC folks and other early hackers (eg AI lab) spent time there as well, it seems very likely that they carried the Kluge name back into their computer work, both in hardware and software. I (unfortunately) was not involved with them, so cannot know for sure. Maybe Sussman or Minsky would know...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by TechieguyMIT68 (talk • contribs) 20:49, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: On pronunciation

message: In the revision as of 2005-12-10T04:04:37, User:Perfecto linked this to the (currently) entirely unhelpful article "clunky".
Something needs doing about it! PJTraill 14:36, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to clunky is unsatisfactory 

message: As a Brit, the merger proposal is a nonsensical non-starter. I'd only ever once heard the term "kludge" once when I was in MI, but botch or bodge are used in everyday British language. The reason is that the engineer Sir Thomas Bouch is the originator of the word, from the 1871 Tay Rail Bridge disaster. Hence I say a definative NO to a merger proposal. Rgds, - Trident13 18:54, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. ww 09:49, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal of Bodge/Botch into Kuldge

message: AFAIK, across many disciplines, it widely considered good practice to reuse existing designs that are know to be satisfactory rather than reinvent everything from scratch for every new project.  Such a methodology saves time and money and reduces opportunity for mistakes.  I am no expert on the usage of the word "kludge" but this section strikes me as rather odd because it cites repeated criticism of the methodology of design reuse.  What is the point of this section?
41.241.90.60 (talk) 12:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You have, I think, mistaken the point. A kludge is awkward, clumsy, etc and by that test the Skylab qualifies. That it is also brilliant cost-effective and functional is irrelevant from the perspective of the word.  Kludge concentrates on the awkwardness, but also denotes that despite the awkwardness it works. ww (talk) 02:55, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aerospace engineering use section 

message: I've removed the recent of addition on "clewage";  aside from the formatting issues, that it was added under a signature, completely unsourced, and has a distinctly ORish ring to it, that spelling gets suspiciously few ghits.
On the spelling and pronunciation issues:  I suspect that we indeed have assimiliation of two originally separate derivations.  I'd only ever heard the "kludge" pronuniciation, until I was "corrected" by a (British-resident) speaker of U.S. English.  The jargon file currently separates the two, with elaborately fine-grained claims of distinctions in meaning, but it would at least be consistent with the variation in spelling, and in prevalence either side of the Atlantic.  Alai (talk) 00:36, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "clewage" and pronunciation generally 

message: Disagree: I can imagine a quick and dirty jerry rigged thing which doesn't work well enough to be an actual kludge, so I think the merge is of two disparate topics. The similarity between them, nonetheless, probably justifies a comment or two. Reactions or comments? ww (talk) 15:56, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree as well. ++Lar: t/c 02:03, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Disagree as well. It's worth keeping QAD with the lexicon of RAD, JAD, etc. Greyskinnedboy (talk) 10:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Disagree also. Quick and Dirty doesn't express elegance that sometimes comes with a Kluge. A kluge often works because you do something unexpected, and can involve clever or unexpected thinking. Quick and Dirty is just a simple, often embarrassing way to get something to work without much work. Stevemidgley (talk) 18:21, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: section merge with quick and dirty?

message: Disagree: I have essentially the same reaction to this proposal as to the one just above. Again, reactions or comments? ww (talk) 15:56, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree:Keep split. Workaround is a much more established and well used word with many uses that each need explaining. Kludge is more specific and less frequently used than workaround. - Shiftchange (talk) 02:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Disagree: Workaround is not the same as a kluge. A kluge is sometimes a solution, whereas a workaround is often done when a solution cannot be found. Stevemidgley (talk) 18:23, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: section merge with workaround?

message: please visit Reliable Software`s site (http://www.relisoft.com/science/ui/index.htm)!!
it contains an obscure text about "kludge" 'n programming.
excerpt from it:
"
Here is the solution. 
It's a simple device that can be attached to the faucets, mix the two streams, and output one stream of water whose temperature is the weighted average of the unpleasant extremes. It's not perfect, the rubber sleeves have a tendency of slipping, but it'll do in a pinch. 
Where have we seen this types of solutions in software? All over the place. In programming, this design device is called a kludge. You start with a badly designed UI and after numerous complaints from the mutant users, you add a kludge on top of it. A.K.A a "quick and dirty" solution.
"
88.209.237.147 (talk) 20:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  zonk! ZONK! ZZZOOONNNKKK!!!! 

message: I changed "Etymology" back to "Linguistics" because this revised section discusses not only etymology but also spelling, pronunciation, and semantics. Would it be better to use something like "The word"? Another idea would be "Lexicography" with subsections for OED and Jargon File. What do you think? Keahapana (talk) 21:58, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section title 

message: Yes indeed my father created the word "kludge" and used it throughout my childhood (Early 60's).
Most often he used it as a synonym for "jerry-rig"--or the process of creating a custom-fix for a problem.  It is similar to todays "Macgyver It", though this modern example implies some sort of ingenuity.  Kludging something, based on the context of dad's usage, hints at assembling things with more than a small sense of desparation and frustration.  The word "just" was used often with the word "kludge", and though the word was coined during dad's work on early computers at Boeing in the 1950's, I first heard it when he and my older brothers were busy restoring Hudson Hornet automobiles in the family garage.  When a fix couldn't be found, dad would say "Well lets just kludge it".
My father also coined two other words that are gaining in popular usage.
The word "slowe" (Pronounced sl--ou 'as in ouch').  A verb meaning to beat severely, as is "If you kids don't setle down I'm going to slowe you one."
and
"Flubdubbity" meaning a state of extreme confusion.
Submitted by Glen W. Granholm  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.103.233.96 (talk) 17:55, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family Verification 

message: I removed the sentence in the introuduction, referring to the word kludge:
"It is a rough synonym to the term 'jury rig.'"
Jury-rig is a verb; kludge is a noun. Even the other form, jury-rigged, is an adjective.  
Words cannot be synonyms if they are not even the same parts of speech.Daqu (talk) 12:45, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed nonsensical sentence 

message: In the section Military jargon (though probably not intended to be in that section) the following sentence occurs:
"The term kluge as an overcomplicated or obscure contraption dates back at least to 1947, as evidenced by the article in the New York Folklore Quarterly,[8] but the term must have been in use long before that for the story to have any sense."
The story is about an employee who gave his profession as "kluge maker" — and received commendations from his superiors without being questioned about it.
No, it is not necessarily the case that "the term must have been in use long before that for the story to have any sense".   (The story could readily be about someone making up a nonsense word that his superiors did not question.)
Please keep POV comments, especially ones without any basis in reality, from Wikipedia articles.Daqu (talk) 12:55, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  An illogical and inappropriate comment in the article 

message: Wouldn't the repairs to the Hubble, adding a pair of high tech 'spectacles' (see Hubble Space Telescope#Flawed mirror and Corrective Optics Space Telescope Axial Replacement) when the mirror was found to have been made incorrectly,  one of the ultimate 'kludges'? - 220 of Borg 01:51, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hubble Space Telescope]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "Kluge" is a brand of printing equipment. https://kluge.biz/about-kluge/
I knew about this because my father was half owner of a print shop that had a Kluge printing press (letterpress, using metal type). I'm not sure to what extent this might support the relationship between "kludge" and the Dutch name "Kluge", and if it did, how to merge it into the article, but I want to mention it here on the talk page. Bgoldnyxnet (talk) 06:17, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kluge revisited 

message: There is the ancient and still used verb of "klatschen" in Germany, which means "to clap" or "to slap". "Klatsch" is pronounced very similar to "kludge", it is actually hard to hear the difference!
If you simply "klatsch", you clap your hands together.
If you "klatsch" on something, you slap it with your hand.
If you "klatsch" something on something, you slap something on something.
German engineers very commonly use the adjective "(wie) hingeklatscht" (lit. "(like) slapt on there") which has the very same meaning like "kludged". It's origin quite probably is close to "hingeschissen" (shitted on there) which means that whoever worked on something just "shitted" there by creating an honor-lacking, ugly hack. And "hingeschmiert" which means "something smeared on". The result of work basically "looks like he slapt it (his shit, his junk) in place" — it "sieht wie hingeklatscht aus".
Use any translator application or native speaker out of the technical/handcraft segment to verify it. I do not know since when "hingeklatscht" is used in German but I would be surprised if no one used it before the 80s or even the 50s.
I do not understand why this possible origin is not mentioned anywhere. It seems very obvious to me on first sight. Lenninfo (talk) 03:25, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible origin — from a German perspective 

message: I realize this is not a conventional way to add to Wikipedia, however I am unable to find any substible reference to the appearance and use of Kluge letterpress and feeder that I believe could have had a substantial contribution to origin of the modern use of Kluge or kludge. "a workaround or quick-and-dirty solution that is clumsy, inelegant, inefficient, difficult to extend and hard to maintain." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kludge is almost an exact description of may print jobs that were done on the Kluge. The only way I know to better tell the story is to find a working Kluge and make a video myself knowing the awkwardness and utility of the press.
The fist time I heard kludge or kluge in modern use sage I immediately thought of a Kluge paper Feeder on a Kluge printing press.
I am one of the last people to go though the conventional apprenticeship program in printing. The print shop I worked in use a Kluge press and feeder to print all the long runs of envelopes it printed. Short runs of 500 to 1000 would be done on the hand fed press if the Kluge was set up for envelopes at the time. Envelopes are hard to feed with conventional feeder as the really stiff. A Kluge feeder will pick up a piece of plywood if you have enough vacuum and the right grippers.
The feeder can be just a temperamental as some claim it is because if called on to print something odd it usually was put on the Kluge. If the feeder couldn't handle the work a Kluge is easy to hand feed. . If a video is need If I can find one working I would make a video. I can't find a video that fully shows how much a Kluge appears to be pile of parts bolted up to make a printing press. Part can be removed and parts added to do many jobs. Printing, foil stamping, embossing, perforating, die cutting, creasing, etc. Brandtjen & Kluge, LLC are still in business building press for the jobs other than printing.
 
The Kluge press was used when frequent changes had to be made to the type or make ready. A good example is ballots that were printed 3 up and numbered. The names had to be reorder every 100 ballots and the numbering machines had to be reset if one ever failed to advance to the next number with two people writing and filling out affidavits on what was done and the spoiled ballots were destroy, how many there were, who did it and how it was done. Gcouger (talk) 21:10, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Actual Experience Operating Kluge Printing Press and Over Head Feeder late 1950's 

message: Please see Talk:Jury rigging#Move non-nautical stuff?.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:35, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge some material out of [[Jury rigging]]?