Talk:Szlachta

message: "Over time, membership in szlachta grew to encompass close to 10% of the Polish-Lithuanian society, which made that class several times larger than most comparable noble classes in other countries."
::The class is not several times larger than most comparable noble classes in other countries, because the szlachta, strictly speaking, is not a noble class, as in other feudal societies, so the szlachta should not be compared to the nobilities of feudal systems, as in, do not compare apples and oranges, nor ducks and cats.
::Adam Zamoyski: "One cannot substitute the terms 'nobility' or 'gentry' for szlachta because it had little in common with those classes in other European countries either in origin, composition or outlook."
::Adam Zamoyski: "Polish society had evolved from clannish structures, and the introduction of Christianity and all that went with it did not alter these significantly. The feudal system which regulated society all over Europe was never introduced into Poland, and this fact cannot be stressed too heavily."
::Roman Dmowski: "The clan system survived in this way throughout the whole of Polish history. It is evident that the warrior class in Poland had quite a different origin and a different legal and social position from that of the feudal nobility of Western Europe."
"Over time, membership in szlachta grew to encompass close to 10% of the Polish-Lithuanian society, which made that class several times larger than most comparable noble classes in other countries."
::These kind of statements, a typical bromide, make Poland look ridiculous. What is worse, the statement is in the lead. The statement is a compound of feudalism and republicanism, and the result is a bastardized monstrosity, which leads to contortions of the mind too terrible to contemplate. Only Poland's enemies could have seeded minds with the idea of promiscuously breeding feudalism and republicanism - the Most Serene Republic of Poland, Serenissima Res Publica Poloniae.
::The szlachta deliberately avoided being a feudal nobility: "In 1459 Ostroróg submitted a memorandum to the parliament (sejm), suggesting that the palatines, or provincial governors, should be given the title of prince and their sons the titles of barons and counts. The title of count was suggested by him for a castellanus. But all these suggestions were not accepted."
::The szlachta avoided being a feudal nobility so deliberately it was a matter of law embedded as a constitutional principle: "As the knights owned their land, there was no room or need for any intermediaries between them and the king. All of them were equal before the king; but they were not king's tenants, and the king was not their overlord. Their relationship to the king was not feudal, i.e., based on feudal dependence, but rather it was regulated by public law. ... From the fact that the knights were equal before the king, the theory of equality was evolved, which later became one of the important features of the constitution."
::Read what Adam Zamoyski writes and comprehend: "One cannot substitute the terms 'nobility' or 'gentry' for szlachta because it had little in common with those classes in other European countries either in origin, composition or outlook."
::My opinion, it is back to the old drawing board for a lot of editors after stumbling on these facts. Readers are better served conceptualizing Poland in the following article substituting "szlachta" for patrician and "peasant" for plebeian - Patrician (ancient Rome). Poland was known as the Most Serene Republic of Poland, Serenissima Res Publica Poloniae, like the Most Serene Republic of Venice, whose Great Council, was composed of 480 members taken from patrician families. Substitute "szlachta" for "patrician" in the Most Serene Republic of Poland. Avoid making readers labor under misconceptions and comparisons of the szlachta to the nobility of feudal societies. It makes Poland look ridiculous.
::Most nobilities were 1%, to 2%, of a country's population. Think how stupid this makes Poland look:
"Over time, membership in szlachta grew to encompass close to 10% of the Polish-Lithuanian society, which made that class several times larger than most comparable noble classes in other countries."
::And in Mazovia, there are numbers cited ranging from 25% to 45% of the population being szlachta in Lomza. - Exxess (talk) 23:11, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Membership in szlachta grew to encompass close to 10% of the Polish-Lithuanian society