Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Textile Arts/Archive 1

message: Before we can design a portal, we need to agree on which topics are fundamental to our project. Here's my thoughts on a basic list, please add items and comment.  (I would think that anything on the fundamental list would also be "Top" importance by default).
===Fundamental (top importance) topics===
:Sewing
:Knitting
:Weaving
:Embroidery
:Needlework
:Textile
:Crochet
:Lace  (there's a defunct project on this with its own portal)
:Yarn
What else is fundamental? (Someone agrees - all but two of these were already tagged as "top" importance when I went to check.  Have so tagged the others.) - PKM 18:25, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've created the portal. Add to it as necessary. --Eyrian 20:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looked at it and — you rock. Amazing work; William Morris is a great choice, and also dear to my heart for his work in furniture and calligraphy.  Now I need to figure out how Portals work, since I've never really explored one before... Willow 02:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh good not just me.  I did a "did you know" - and if anyone has a better idea for the featured image, change away! - PKM 04:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I think so. --Eyrian 05:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree. Oh yes! - PKM 19:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fundamental topics and portal

message: :Sewing
:Knitting
:Weaving
:Embroidery
:Needlework
:Textile
:Crochet
:Lace  (there's a defunct project on this with its own portal)
:Yarn
What else is fundamental? (Someone agrees - all but two of these were already tagged as "top" importance when I went to check.  Have so tagged the others.) - PKM 18:25, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've created the portal. Add to it as necessary. --Eyrian 20:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looked at it and — you rock. Amazing work; William Morris is a great choice, and also dear to my heart for his work in furniture and calligraphy.  Now I need to figure out how Portals work, since I've never really explored one before... Willow 02:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh good not just me.  I did a "did you know" - and if anyone has a better idea for the featured image, change away! - PKM 04:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I think so. --Eyrian 05:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree. Oh yes! - PKM 19:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fundamental (top importance) topics

message: It appears we should list it in Wikipedia:Portal/Directory. - PKM 04:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Listing the portal

message: Textile Museum is very close to me, even though I have never visited it. I gather it is very interesting. And the article here is so so short !--Filll 00:09, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Filll, welcome to our new little home!  Anything you'd like to add about the Textile Museum or any other topic would be great. :) Willow 02:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A sort of short textile stub 

message: I don't have much experience with portals - do the Category lists etc. get maintained by hand or is there a Trick I don't know about? - PKM 00:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems they need to be maintained by hand. I've tried to add the important ones. --Eyrian 01:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Maintaining the portal

message: I picked William Morris, largely from convenience (he seemed to have a good article). If anyone else wants to replace him, I'd love to hear suggestions. --Eyrian 01:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: William Morris is perfect, thank you. - PKM 03:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portal selected biography 

message: Willow - question on the project page: "Article Worklist" links to Wikipedia:WikiProject Textile Arts/Organization which confuses me.  And what would be the difference between "Article Worklist" and "Project tasks"?  I have started populating the to-do list and started the Project Tasks page. - PKM 23:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The worklist was meant as a categorization of our assessed articles; see the MCB example.  Properly, it should do directly to the Worklist sub-page.  But none of us are sure how the worklist bot works, so perhaps it's best to leave our worklist languish for the moment. ;) You're all doing great stuff; it's wonderful to see the project taking off. I have to run now, but I'll try to do some more late tonight. Ta ta, Willow 00:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha!  Okay.  Have I created any pages by hand that should be created by bots?  Oops if so. - PKM 03:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Organization

message: I assume that this would start up some time soon, since it's nearing the end of the month. Is anyone up to the challenge of getting this organized? DroEsperanto 18:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. What's it to be? --Eyrian 19:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about yarn (which also covers "thread")?  It's common to all textile arts, and might be relatively easy to improve.  What do others think? Willow 20:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yarn sounds like a great first COTM. It's something that all of us more-or-less have experience in, since, like you said, is common to all textile arts. We'd just have to make sure we keep out cruft in the form of links to places to buy yarn and stuff. :3 DroEsperanto 21:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me too. - PKM 23:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in, too. --Eyrian 02:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm going off to see my sister and her new baby for a week, but I'll collaborate on Yarn once I get back.  Good luck and have fun!  Looking forward to working with you all, Willow 13:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collaboration of the Month 

message: This article seems to be an explosion of redefinitions. What should be done with it? --Eyrian 22:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I hadn't noticed that article before, but it's a little concerning to me; could the text be plagiarized from somewhere?  We should check that somehow.  Otherwise, it seems like a good worklist for us. :) Willow 13:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the article is a list of terms, and it is so because of me. I found it shortly after I started editing, and wasn't sure what to do with it, only that something needed to be done. The terms included were ones that there were articles and stubs on, or other terms I know. The text mainly was copied over from articles or stubs, and I only actually wrote a small portion. I don't know what should be done with it- it has expanded a lot from what I originally had and is really very long, and most of the terms have an article of sorts now. Maybe if we could insure that each term has its own article, and that it is a good article, we wouldn't need it? Loggie 19:59, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Textile manufacturing terminology]] 

message: I think it might be nice to have some navigation templates for textile arts articles. I've made a few before ( and ), and it'd be relatively straightforward to make more. What sorts of boxes would be useful? Techniques? Tools? --Eyrian 18:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have created  and started linking it in. Comments and expansion welcome. - PKM 19:07, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not happy with the label "components" for textiles, yarn, warp, and weft.  Has anyone got a better idea? - PKM 22:10, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Also made  - PKM 22:39, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

text: And  - PKM 19:38, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates 

message: Hey, guys! I've requested a peer review for knitting here. I'd appreciate any feedback you guys have, so feel free to join in. – Dok(talk|contribs) 16:23, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did anything happen with this? - PKM 02:48, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Knitting]] peer review 

message: Hi, I am an overactive WP Films gnome, but have lived many years with an Austrian textile artist, who is also member of the Kunstlerhaus. I have done for her a bilingual (German-English) website, http://www.cc-textile-art.com and I could also make an article if I ever get a short break from Films. I just found your project by chance, so I wanted to ask you if your scope encompasses textile artists as well and if you think this artist passes notability criteria to have an article. Please, let me know. Hoverfish Talk 23:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I just noticed this is the to-do page, so please move this where it is more appropriate. Hoverfish Talk 23:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Textile artists? 

message: I aim to keep an ever-changing list here, of article & cats which need to be resolved. Feel free to edit the list, adding or subtracting your own notes. Bards 19:57, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Taxonomy is hard!  Okay, thinking: I would classify hand-made laces under needlwork rather than fabric.  But machine-made laces are different - most are woven and a (very) few are knitted.  (And some are embroidered on a ground fabric.) And we also have Net (textile) and bobbinet to classify.  They are all related.  I'd throw them into woven fabrics for now, but I'd like to hear from other folks on this. - PKM 21:16, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

text: *:Category:Beadwork might interest you. Maybe it needs to be linked into the Textiles hierarchy. Bards 13:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: *Quillwork does appear to be a form of embroidery, sometimes with beads added on top? - images. I think it should be in both "Beadwork" and "Embroidery", as it is a combination of them. Bards 14:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's also a brick stitch that is a variant of satin stitch.  Will add to article sometime. - PKM 19:29, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Ever-Changing List of Doubtful Things 

message: Mini discussions moved from the ever-changing list (above), due to being no longer doubtful.
*Wondering about creating "Net fabrics", to include eg. Fishnet (material), Net (textile) (as yet unclassified), Bobbinet, Needlerun Net. These seem to be distinct and identifiable forms of fabric. But difficult decision because some are knitted and some are woven. Unsure whether to include highly open-weave fabrics with them. Bards 14:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Oh let's be thorough and make a cat for painted fabrics.  Maybe someone will be inspired to do a survey article on them. - PKM 06:35, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *ok, done. I've also put Chintz in there, as it can be painted or printed. Bards 08:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The expanding list of ex-doubtful things

message: I made a barnstar for Textile Arts work, The Cross stitched barnstar, and presented it to User:PKM for her excellent contributions. I'd encourage others to award it to deserving individuals, as well. --Eyrian 04:07, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Any objections to listing this as the official project barnstar? --Eyrian 19:38, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections here!! - PKM 18:14, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I've listed it on the Wikiproject awards page. If anyone here who actually cross-stitches wanted to take a photo of a genuine article, that'd be really incredible, but I think it looks nice as it is. --Eyrian 21:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I love the barnstar just like it is (and I had to look really close to be sure it wasn't embroidered).  I have added it under "awards" in the Project Standards section on our project page (right column). - PKM 02:52, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: many thanks :) I've never had a barnstar before. Bards 14:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barnstar 

message: ===Knitting template===
Help.  I've started a knitting template  but I need help from someone who knows more about knitting than I do to put more links in the right groups.  I expect this to be a big template, and I can make a bigger image if we need it. - PKM 17:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Loggie, very helpful. - PKM 20:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for making the templates- I like the organization they give. Loggie 21:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad you like them!  I have reworked  based on your suggestions, and I pulled "machine knitting" into its own group.  As always, feel free to tweak the template to make more sense, but I think we could start using it now. I will put it on the main article knitting but that's it for me probably until the weekend. - PKM 03:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just saw the first usage of the  template — it's fantastic! :D  I'm sorry that I've been AWOL so long; there's lots of other things and people tugging at my sleeves.  I'll try to come back and at least tag my own articles.  Thanks again very much; it looks beautiful! :) Willow 22:06, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome back, Willow! Glad you like the templates.  This project has a frightening number of articles in it these days.  :-) - PKM 04:00, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: And User:Fred Bradstadt and User:Eyrian have updated them, included  - thanks all! - PKM 16:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I've added the nav box to all of the embroidery styles and stitches in the template.  - PKM 00:51, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: *Any ideas for subdividing Wovens would be welcome. Bards 08:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we need to assess whether all of those articles meet the "notability" criteria (or ever will).  Many of them are merest definitions.  I am thinking we might try to group like things chambray and oxford (cloth) under Shirting fabrics, with redirects, and then drop the individual fabrics from the template. We can also break out "figured fabrics" and "pile fabrics" to match the subcats. - PKM 18:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I broke out figured and pile wovens and added a second image. - PKM 19:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Should I add a section "textile artists" or "artists and designers" (or "people"?) to this one, for folks active in more than one art (like William Morris)? - PKM 01:42, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I'd say so. – DroEsperanto(talk|contribs) 01:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More Templates

message: Help.  I've started a knitting template  but I need help from someone who knows more about knitting than I do to put more links in the right groups.  I expect this to be a big template, and I can make a bigger image if we need it. - PKM 17:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Loggie, very helpful. - PKM 20:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for making the templates- I like the organization they give. Loggie 21:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad you like them!  I have reworked  based on your suggestions, and I pulled "machine knitting" into its own group.  As always, feel free to tweak the template to make more sense, but I think we could start using it now. I will put it on the main article knitting but that's it for me probably until the weekend. - PKM 03:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just saw the first usage of the  template — it's fantastic! :D  I'm sorry that I've been AWOL so long; there's lots of other things and people tugging at my sleeves.  I'll try to come back and at least tag my own articles.  Thanks again very much; it looks beautiful! :) Willow 22:06, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome back, Willow! Glad you like the templates.  This project has a frightening number of articles in it these days.  :-) - PKM 04:00, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Knitting template

message: User:Fred Bradstadt has updated  to use a more standard format.  I've asked him if he can do the others to match, and we can adopt that look going forward. - PKM 17:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And User:Fred Bradstadt and User:Eyrian have updated them, included  - thanks all! - PKM 16:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Standardizing

message: We have an  template now. I have made my best guess as to which styles are sufficiently mainstream to be categorized under "styles" and which should be under "historical and regional".  Essentially, if it's in the Readers Digest Complete Guide to Needlework I am considering it mainstream, but I am open to suggestions. - PKM 21:17, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added the nav box to all of the embroidery styles and stitches in the template.  - PKM 00:51, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Embroidery

message: To me, the "woven" section of the Fabric template is getting a bit crowded. Perhaps it could be subdivided a little? Bards, you seem to love that sort of thing... --Eyrian 07:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Any ideas for subdividing Wovens would be welcome. Bards 08:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we need to assess whether all of those articles meet the "notability" criteria (or ever will).  Many of them are merest definitions.  I am thinking we might try to group like things chambray and oxford (cloth) under Shirting fabrics, with redirects, and then drop the individual fabrics from the template. We can also break out "figured fabrics" and "pile fabrics" to match the subcats. - PKM 18:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I broke out figured and pile wovens and added a second image. - PKM 19:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fabric template crowding 

message: It's a mere shell , but we can build it out.  is more than a shell now, but still needs work.  Brain is turning to mush. Please feel free to move things. - PKM 02:31, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sewing template

message: , for top-level survey articles like needlework, and things like textile preservation, etc. - PKM 23:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Should I add a section "textile artists" or "artists and designers" (or "people"?) to this one, for folks active in more than one art (like William Morris)? - PKM 01:42, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Textile arts template

message: This may be going overboard, but we have  and they are all linked in.
Still to do:
*<S>Dyeing
 (need to think about that one - every chemical dye?) Started 
*Tapestry (a small one, lots of work can be done in this category)
*Crochet (a small one) Done and linked in: 
Are carpets and rugs within our purview? - PKM 01:36, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say so. – DroEsperanto(talk|contribs) 01:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Small templates and to-do's

message: New template  for quilting, patchwork, applique, etc.  Our quilting coverage needs lots of work.  I am open to a better name for these overlapping crafts. - PKM 20:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Quilting etc.

message: So, I notice that not a single article on our list is featured. That makes me a little sad. Therefore, I think we should all try and collaborate and get at least one up to the required standards. We should probably work on one from our articles of top importance. Anyone have any good ideas for which to pick? Perhaps, for morale, something that's maybe low-hanging fruit? --Eyrian 23:19, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great idea.  Having just added navboxes to 36 embroidery articles, I am a bit daunted by how much work we have to do on even the most basic topics (like running stitch).  But, to take a positive approach, may I suggest darning? - PKM 00:44, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember we had a collaboration of the month once for Yarn, because it was a topic we are all more-or-less familiar with. I think that might be a good idea. Although I could help something like darning, too, I suppose; copyediting and organization and citations and stuff. Alright, I'm going to just admit my bias on this subject and say that I would really like to see Knitting get to FA status (or at least GA). :) – DroEsperanto(talk|contribs) 14:35, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll support that, but I can't help much, because I know little about it. - PKM 18:55, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article 

message: I just tagged cochineal for our project, and it was previously a FA, so we have one by acquisition. - PKM 03:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cochineal

message: In order to coordinate photos, I've created a category for TA articles needing photos. Please tag the talk page with , which will add the article to :Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of textile arts materiel. --Eyrian 18:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! - PKM 02:53, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested photos 

message: I've started some work on Yarn; there's lots of good commentary on what's needed in Talk:Yarn and I have added my two cents and started a to-do list there. - PKM 21:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is fantastic. Thank you! On a related note (and this is for everyone), do you know of any good resource (preferably online) that could be cited in the article? I'm having trouble finding any, and I'd also like to be able to expand my knowledge of the topic of yarn in general before contributing extensively to the article. – DroEsperanto(talk|contribs) 02:02, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll look for a good online source.  The canonical textbook seems to be Kadolph, Sara J., ed.: Textiles, 10th edition, Pearson/Prentice-Hall, 2007, , p. 63 (or any edition, really; they are available used all over the place).  This book is almost entirely focused on contemporary commercial manufacture with no sense of history, which I find very annoying. :-) - PKM 23:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a really good introduction to Yarn: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-3/Yarn.html - PKM 21:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice! Thanks a ton! – DroEsperanto(talk|contribs) 03:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Collaboration of the Month: Yarn Revisited

message: I've been looking over the articles on dyeing.  Dye seems to focus (quite properly) on the chemical end of things, while Dyeing is about dyeing textiles.  I think this is a useful distinction, but Dyeing skims past natural dyes (no mention of indigo or madder, even).  It needs to be expanded, and I think we could use either natural dyes or history of dyeing, or both, when someone has time and the inclination. - PKM 03:31, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dyeing

message: There's an outstanding merge suggestion for ply and plying since January.  I suggest we merge the textile info and illustrations into plying (consistent with weaving, spinning, sewing) and perhaps make ply a disambiguation page.  Comments welcome on the respective talk pages, or someone could just jump in and merge these puppies. - PKM 21:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Plying