Talk:Card manipulation

message: How about sourcing the FISM definition of manipulation: "Manipulation: A magic stage act wholly or largely based on sleight of hand." ( http://www.fism.org/ContestRule-English.htm ) So Card Manipulation would be a card magic on stage based wholly or largely on sleight of hand. It's not perfect, but comes IMO closer than things based on listing "things which are manipulation" -- and you can still clarify with examples if you want to.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.229.41 (talk) 08:11, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition? 

message: Why there are two sections, "Notable practicioners of card magic" and "Card Magicians, Cardicians and Card Gamblers"? What are the criteria to put a card magician into one or the other? Seems like a bit arbitrary to me. --Lektu 15:48, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Sections? 

message: Why does 'card magic' redirect here, when the opening paragraph says that card manipulation is not to be confused with card magic? It's silly, espicially as the magic links below link to card magic. 58.169.32.38 11:43, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It now redirects to Magic (illusion), as there is currently no article on "Card magic" per se. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.154.65.1 (talk) 19:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Card Magic Redirect? 

message: Do you want this topic to be accurate? STOP adding yourself to the list, and be *objective*. *Don't* delete somebody from the list simply on the grounds that you do not like the person.
---- Agreed. Guys, these notable manipulators need to be sourced. I don't want to be a "bad guy" and delete Brad Boulton, but... There needs to be a reason he appears, not just because he's a wikipedia editor. This isn't the first person to promote themselves with a photo of themselves flourishing, and I think that what we really need... Is an illustration. It might be the most objective way to well, "illustrate a point". Also, IIRC that photo is of a sybil variation, and... Instead of just quoting "Sybil", the maneuver should be credited to Chris Kenner (the explanation of Sybil comes from "Totally Out of Control" 1992, by Chris Kenner). Also, that book includes a trick using Sybil, bridging the worlds of flourishing (cardistry) and card magic. Sybil also is documented by Brian Tudor (in his three "Show Off" videos, starting in 1999) and also referred to as "crazy cuts" by Rich Ferguson on his DVD called "Flourishes". 
--Protocoldroid (talk) 19:40, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, I am adding John Scarne. Hope that is ok--Nyctc7 (talk) 03:54, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable card manipulators? 

message: Is there a template for Magic-category stub? I doubt it, but this article definately qualifies. The history of card tricks is a core part of the history of magic, and probably the most documented. But the only reference to this rich tapestry is brief mention of Erdnase and Bertram? The article on Bertram doesn't mention cards or magic, btw. (And I can't believe patter is a red-link!) Sigh... Eaglizard 14:46, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: i couldn't agree more. let's work on this together - i have made a start. Grroin 23:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I concure this article is in need of a major overhaul. 213.121.151.142 12:07, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stubness 

message: Is everybody okay with the page move from card magic to Card manipulation. I just got the privilege of "moving" and I don't want to abuse it. Elabro 16:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Page move

message: Is the person in the picture a notable magician? If not, the name should be removed, as non-notable. --Janke | Talk 09:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maxwell 

message: It seems to me that this article is all over the place. Firstly "Card Magic" should have its own article, as it is clearly seperate from card manipulation (in the sense of flourishes)
This article should be more about the history of card magic not just a collection of vague references such as "in the last century or so". It should be an article charting the rise of card magic from its historical roots up to the present day. Some key individuals should be mentioned but a list of notable handlers should reside in the "List of magicians" article. 213.121.151.142 12:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: the article really is all over the place. Reading like a mature Wikipedian who's also a devoted magician.....it's all over the place.Buddpaul (talk) 22:46, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Card magic or card manipulations? 

message: I wondered about putting in references to where interested readers can see how to practice some of the basic tricks, such as the glide, double lift and palming cards. There are sites on the web such as this www.card-trick.com/sleights/glide.htm Card tricks, the Glide, should we compile a list for the articles or would it actually be better to have separate pages for each card trick.
Collieman 16:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The content in that link is something that should be encyclopedically included in the article here.  I don't think separate aricles or needed or a good idea at this point.  This is a short article, almost a stub even, so a few subsections about a few tricks would fit fine here. 2005 20:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Examples of card magic

message: Card manipulation isant just magic, its any form of Card manipulation so why have you just covered magic, what about pro card dealers and xcmers and just people that know how to shufful cards but carnt do a magic trick —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.47.202.108 (talk • contribs) .
:That may be so (in which case XCM should be defined). It doesn't seem a valid reason to remove card magic practitioners from the article though. -- zzuuzz (talk) 11:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Card manipulation isant just magic 

message: :Card magic, in one form or another, likely dates from the time playing cards became commonly known — towards the second half of the fourteenth century — but its history in this period is largely undocumented. One may surmise from the practice of how other everyday objects have been pressed into the service of conjurers across cultures and the ages that card magic developed spontaneously and roughly concurrently in different parts of the world, if not always synchronously. However, compared to sleight of hand magic in general and to cups and balls, it is a relatively new form of magic.
I'm moving this here. Too much speculation and guesswork. 
If the relevant history is "undocumented," then nobody is ever going to be able to cite a source. Therefore this paragraph can never meet the verifiability policy. Therefore, it is not suitable content for Wikipedia. 
Of course it can and should be restored if someone does find a source. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Likely... largely undocumented... surmise... 

message: Card Magic and Card Manipulation need their own articles. Card manipulation in many cases has no magic/illusion in it at all, its about style and flow.......
--Bradboulton (talk) 22:54, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Card Magic Needs its own article 

message: Presently The Pass redirects to Sleight of hand, where I did put a brief description of the move (and the Side Steal) - that paragraph was deleted as being in the wrong place.  Should Card manipulation contain a brief description of the major card sleights?  I'm reluctant to create a new wiki for it, but I see that there's some debate here as to what the terms magic and manipulation mean, and I would like some guidance as to whether slieght descriptions would be welcome.  Obviously it wouldn't ne a how to guide, just a description of effect and the basics of the method.  TrulyBlue (talk) 09:50, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Card sleights 

message: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As discussed and mention by others above, Card Magic needs its own section.  Card Manipulation mostly is not magic.  Extreme Card Manipulation (XCM) is now the most used form of Card Manipulation.  Card manipulation means many things such as card throwing, and card shuffling.  Card magic deserves a section only for it.  XCM and other forms of card manipulation deserve its own section also.
Drlmagicman (talk) 17:23, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Card magic needs its own section 

message: Doesn't really seem to explain what the "trick" actually is. Huw Powell (talk) 22:56, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current (Dingle) example