Talk:Carbon Creek (Star Trek: Enterprise)

message: :Image:CarbonCreek.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It would be really nice if this article could include an image again. Something like the following image, https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/episodes/ent/carboncreek.jpg (Archive) as it shows both Blalock and Boehmer in costume, as well as the town in the background behind them. (I'm not going to try and deal with the image submission process myself.) I did look in Wikimedia Commons to see if maybe there was a freely available Sputnik image I could add but I wasn't convinced a generic image like :File:Sputnik-516.jpg would really improve the article, as it was only an minor detail to establish the Cold War time period but was not essential to the plot. -- 109.76.146.37 (talk) 22:17, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Using the Web Archive I found a copy of the StarTrek.com Media archive of Enterprise publicity photos. List includes four images from this episode (027) specifically. Using existing image that had already been used to publicize the epispode by StarTrek.com might help satisfy the WP:NFCC non-free image requirements but frankly the image are not good, and in this case there are many other images(Trekcore.com gallery) that would be better choices and more representative of the episode. -- 109.79.64.54 (talk) 05:04, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:CarbonCreek.jpg

message: I removed the trivia section and created subsections instead per other episode articles. I also put back the reference to the drunk alternate take as this is a notable bit of production information and it's been released on DVD so it's verifiable. 68.146.41.232 (talk) 18:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Redistributing trivia

message: Seems OR to me. Lots42 (talk) 13:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Likely? 

message: The parenthetical remark beginning "In reality," duplicates much of the preceding sentence. Due to the fact that the preceding sentence requires a source, I'm not sure how to merge them properly. Any ideas? — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 09:00, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Velcro]] 

message: I came to this page to see if there were any references to the titles/artists of the 1950s country music selections playing in the Pine Tree Inn and perhaps elsewhere. Is there anyone here who knows of any source that provides this information? 68.10.81.239 (talk) 21:14, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently no one knows, so I decided to do a google search on some of the lyrics of the only two classic songs heard over the dialog in the episode. I found a match to the first song heard playing, i.e., "while my yearning heart keeps saying you're not mine", and it turned out to be "Crazy Arms" by Ray Price. Upon searching a string of lyrics from the second song, "That lonesome moon up in the sky is shining blue tonight", I found no exact match, so I am still looking for that one. Any help would be appreciated. Also, I would like to include the results in the article if no one objects. 68.10.81.239 (talk) 21:37, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  1950's Music References? 

message: Should we include a citation that Carbon Creek, Pennsylvania, is a fictional town, unlike other Earth-based locales in the Star Trek Universe?Michaelopolis (talk) 03:41, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fictional town 

message: The character Mestral appears again in the Star Trek novel "From History's Shadow"
Not sure if that is WP:NOTABLE enough to mention in the article though. -- 109.76.134.1 (talk) 11:43, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The Star Trek novel Strangers from the Sky (1987) seems to have a similar premise to this episode, might be worth mentioning. -- 109.76.144.221 (talk) 02:14, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  The 2016 novel Star Trek novel "From History's Shadow" can be borrowed from Archive.org, free login required. In another novel also by Dayton Ward titled "Elusive Salvation" Mestral appears again, and it is also available to borrow from Archive.org Elusive Salvation. Mestal might also appear in some of the Star Trek novels by Greg Cox (he is mentioned in the 2017 novel "Hearts and Minds" there may be others). In hindsight, I should have started by checking Memory Beta which summarizes what Mestral got up to in the novels. -- 109.79.69.204 (talk) 14:08, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Book 

message: === Johnnie's Market ===
"Johnnie's Market is the actual small town market there." 
Business listings: 
* https://us-food.info/company-johnnies-market-general-str-in-crestline-ca-10601
* https://www.yelp.com/biz/johnnies-market-and-general-store-crestline
"The sign in the show was paid for by Paramount and is still there."
Using Google Street view you can see the sign: 
Image capture October 2012 https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2468779,-117.3012402,3a,75y,94.12h,77.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxDip7UtNj1sc-XbJUTT_SQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en 
but only from certain angles, looking at it from another angle you get given other images, 
Image capture from February 2019 https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2469781,-117.3011371,3a,75y,175.33h,94.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPXg-iglWv8IEMqYD50c1bA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en 
The building has been painted and the sign changed to "Magic 7 Family Market". It seems as if the business changed ownership in 2014. 
Predictably enough the claim that something was "still there" has gone out of date. If anything it is a surprise that that it lasted over a decade. Now that I've done all the necessary due diligence I'm going to update the article and remove the "still there" claim. -- 109.79.169.92 (talk) 03:14, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Locations

message: "Johnnie's Market is the actual small town market there." 
Business listings: 
* https://us-food.info/company-johnnies-market-general-str-in-crestline-ca-10601
* https://www.yelp.com/biz/johnnies-market-and-general-store-crestline
"The sign in the show was paid for by Paramount and is still there."
Using Google Street view you can see the sign: 
Image capture October 2012 https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2468779,-117.3012402,3a,75y,94.12h,77.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxDip7UtNj1sc-XbJUTT_SQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en 
but only from certain angles, looking at it from another angle you get given other images, 
Image capture from February 2019 https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2469781,-117.3011371,3a,75y,175.33h,94.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPXg-iglWv8IEMqYD50c1bA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en 
The building has been painted and the sign changed to "Magic 7 Family Market". It seems as if the business changed ownership in 2014. 
Predictably enough the claim that something was "still there" has gone out of date. If anything it is a surprise that that it lasted over a decade. Now that I've done all the necessary due diligence I'm going to update the article and remove the "still there" claim. -- 109.79.169.92 (talk) 03:14, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Johnnie's Market 

message: (Memory Alpha notes that...) 
The exterior of the building that was used for the outside of the Pine Tree Bar and Grill is a laundromat, called the "Wash Tub". As of 2021 you can see it from Google Maps Street View. 
I'd like to add more about these filming locations to the Production section but without a reliable secondary source to confirm the details, it is probably not allowed. -- 109.78.194.99 (talk) 02:05, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Pine Tree Bar and Grill

message: As far as I can tell Ain't it Cool News didn't actually do a full review this episode, but in their (2002) review of another episode they said "the series demonstrated with 2.2 (“Carbon Creek,” aka “Vulcan ‘57”) that the show can still knock one out of the park given half a chance."
Maybe that praise could be squeezed into the Reception section. -- 109.79.175.162 (talk) 00:12, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: When the season 2 DVD was released (2013) Herc (the reviewer at AICN) called the episode one of his favorites. He also notes the strong "City on the Edge of Forever" vibe. -- 109.79.175.162 (talk) 00:53, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reviews 

message: While doing a deep dive for sources I found out that the Clint Eastwood film Pale Rider also includes a "Carbon Creek". The town of struggling goldminers is Carbon Canyon, California, and the river where they are looking for gold is called Carbon Creek. (It was set in California but filmed in Idaho.) I do not have anything to suggest this is more than a coincidence, maybe one of the writers was a big Clint Eastwood fan and it was an intentional nod to the film, but chances are they just liked the name sound of it. -- 109.78.199.44 (talk) 20:10, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Also there is Carbon Canyon Dam, in Orange County, California, that impounds "Carbon Canyon Creek". These similar placenames in California may have been familiar the writers. Can't say for sure if that's where the name came from but maybe I'll find an interview with writer Chris Black or something eventually. I always like to have an explanation of how the episode titles came to be chosen if possible, and sometimes the name choice turns out to be significant. -- 109.76.143.155 (talk) 05:40, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode title