Talk:Convicts in Australia

message: I found a bunch of cool images and listed them at commons:Talk:Convicts, so if anyone wants to upload them to commons, go right ahead! As this article grows longer we can add more to this one.
Seeing as :Category:Convictism in Australia has quite a few pages on ships, we should probably include some ships here too. pfctdayelise 02:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  images 

message: I think I remember reading in "The Fatal Shore" by Robert Hugh that only about 160,000 people were transported to Australia during the 80(?) years of transportation.
This might be related to contrast popular belief that most Australians are descendents of hard-core criminals, which is as far from the truth as is possible.
I lost my copy of The Fatal Shore so it's a bit complicated for me to verify this number.
* In those days many people had large families.   There are three or four million people in Australia today who have at least one "convict" ancestor.  Of course everybody ( unless their families are inbred ), have 64 great-great-great-great-grandparents,   so having one or two of those 64 ancestors being a convict does not necessarily imply a criminal disposition. Eregli bob (talk) 09:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  How about numbers of convicts? 

message: I have given the article a substantial overhaul, but some areas could still be expanded such as the legacy section. Bobby1011 22:00, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overhaul 

message: Links to page on GW Bush III financial supporters. Though a correct explanation the wrong context in this case.
* Thanks for that. Bush Ranger is now a disambiguation page, and this article now points to bushranger. Snottygobble 22:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bush Ranger Link 

message: Who made up this word ? Eregli bob (talk) 09:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Convictism is not a word 

message: *Oxford English Dictionary: convictism, the convict system; the system of penal settlements for convicted criminals; this system as embodied in its subjects; the convict class or body.
*Macquarie Dictionary: convictism, the system of confining convicts in a penal colony, especially in a penal labour settlement, or as assigned servants to free settlers convictism has tended in no small degree to give a distinct...
*Websters Unabridged Dictionary: convictism, the policy or practice of transporting convicts to penal settlements.
*Chambers 20th Century Dictionary: convictism, the convict system.
*Marcus Clarke's For the term of his natural life: "Convictism had established a tacit right to converse in whispers."
*Manning Clark's A history of Australia: "As though to confirm these fears of what convictism was doing to humanity in New South Wales,...", "At the beginning of 1841 it looked as though squatterdom and convictism were long-term features of the human scene in New South Wales.", "The supporters of convictism seemed to be spoiling for a fight.", "Transportation was dead; convictism lived on.", "Gold provided the occasion for the abolition of transportation but not the means of production with which to allay the ghost of convictism.", "On the mainland the convicts disappeared, but convictism lived on. Churches, hospitals, roads, bridges, plantation families, the vocabulary and the pronunciation of the English language survived as...", "The Bulletin saw both the phenomenon of larrikinism and the severity of the punishments meted out to larrikins as legacies of convictism. During the convict period, they argued on 18 December 1886,...".
* P. R. Stephenson (1936), "It has presented a larrikin view of Australian life. It has made the larrikin idea paramount, as in an earlier phase convictism was paramount. The larrikin and the convict are not representative..."
* Stannage (1981) Convictism in Western Australia
* Langker (1979) The vocabulary of convictism and flash in New South Wales 1788-1850
* Decker (1964) Public reaction to convictism
* Mykytiuk (1962) The attitude of the public towards the introduction of convictism in Western Australia.
* Jeffrey (1893) A burglar's life, or, The stirring adventures of the great English burglar, Mark Jeffrey : a thrilling history of the dark days of convictism in Australia.
* Connors (1990) The 'birth of the prison' and the death of convictism: the operation of the law in pre-separation Queensland 1839-1859
* Howitt (1863) Letters on transportation, as the only means of effectual convict reform : partly reprinted from the "Times" the "Morning Advertiser", and "Morning Star"; also letters on the revolting cruelties practised under the game laws, showing these laws to be one of the most prolific sources of convictism
* Ho (2003), Peter Carey's Jack Maggs and the trauma of convictism
* Lane (2005) "Deliver Their Land from Error's Chain": Conversion, Convictism and Captivity in Australian Fiction"
*http://www.daff.gov.au/rfa/publications/whep-meeting/european
*http://www.parliament.tas.gov.au/php/BecomingTasmania/Convicts1853.pdf
*http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PX2hli7W8WkC&pg=PA119&lpg=PA119&dq=convictism&source=web&ots=q25J3i9u3F&sig=C3RoiWvypF2EoDX2Lg9FIRCJfk4&hl=en
*http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=thunderbolt&id=I0001
*http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/08/20/reviews/hughes.html
*http://members.optusnet.com.au/~waldrenm/tom.html
I could go on for a while yet. Hesperian 12:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubted that dramedy was a word too. ;) --AussieLegend (talk) 15:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

text: This certainly demonstrates that convictism is indeed a real word. The question now is which word is most appropriate to use. For my mind, convictism is the word which most naturally and accurately describes the subject matter of the article, that is, the entire system relating to convicts in Australia, and not just one or several aspects of it. There's no problem in choosing a word which some people might not be aware of so long as we are going for accuracy; we do aim to educate after all, and redirects are cheap. --bainer (talk) 09:00, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If convictism was indeed "the word which most naturally and accurately describes the subject matter of the article" there would have been no arguments against its use. "Convict era of Australia" is far more natural and since Convict era of Western Australia already exists, after having been changed from convictism, it starts a process of standardisation among articles. --AussieLegend (talk) 09:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: maybe it should move back given the above list of convictism usage, additionally era is a poor term given its defined time period, and the article specifies a time them says that it continued for for some time undefined after transportation stopped. Gnangarra 17:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks for that -  all can be so easily solved with a few redirects :( SatuSuro 09:05, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "I doubt that there is such a word as ''convictism''"

message: Hello, I just wanted to tell you that a part of this article was in todays national test in English, preformed at all gymnasiums in Sweden. The source was cited as en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convictism_in_Australia with a little remark that stated that all the facts had been checked against the corresponding sources. Obviously somebody at The Swedish National Agency for Education found this article to be good reading material! Bluray (talk) 13:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swedish national test 

message: In the article on the Gallipoli Campaign, a text which to us is unable for discussion, i find there is a strong sense of bias, and generalization. 
"Increasingly, Australians treat the ANZAC legend as their own, unwittingly excluding their trans-tasman counterparts. John Howard, former Prime Minister of Australia, famously shunned[34]the New Zealand ANZAC service at Gallipoli in 2005, preferring instead to spend his morning at a barbeque on the beach with Australian soldiers. In 2009, New Zealand historians noted that some Australian children were unaware that New Zealand was a part of ANZAC."
This is only a small portion of what I believe, is an incorrect and seemingly bias article. 
It must have been written by one of England or New Zealand, considering that parts of the text seem to shy from what could be the truth. 
This is just an opinion...
Just have a look and see what you think
Jack--John B. Oliver (talk) 12:31, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gallipoli Campaign 

message: I can't see anything about political prisoners other than the inclusion of John Mitchel in the famous convicst list. How about a section called 'Political prisoners' following the 'Women' section?Lucy1958 (talk) See this webpage for ideas .Lucy1958 (talk) 05:37, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Political Prisoners

message: All bar one convict is linked to their own article, and I have added a reference to the one who isn't. There are references within the linked articles. Lucy1958 (talk) 00:32, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Do we really need  refs for famous convicts list??

message: From the article: "For example, Michael Hammond and his sister, Ann, whose ages were given as 7 and 11, were reportedly hanged at King's Lynn on Wednesday, 28 September 1708 for theft.". However, following the link in the reference I could see no confirmation. On the contrary, elsewhere on the site (http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/child.html) we are told that the parish records suggest that they were 17 and 20.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.55.237 (talk) 23:08, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference given contradicts article?

message: This article is titled convicts in Australia and talks about the transport and setting up of convicts in Australia, but the fact is that Australia did not even exist until 1901.
Previous to 1901 the land that is now Australia was legally only colonies of Britain. The last convicts to be transported to these British colonies was 1868. Thats 32 years before the country of Australia even existed. As such this article is totally false, wrong, misleading and misinformation.Aussialad29 (talk) 11:26, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The term "Australia" was used from the early 1800s after Matthew Flinders' circumnaviagation. Both Denison and Fitzroy were named as Governor-Generals of Australia prior to the federation of the colonies...--Jack Upland (talk) 08:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Factually wrong information on this article

message: It says in the article:
This doesn't make sense. They went to Botany Bay, decided it wasn't suitable and relocated to Port Jackson, which became present-day Sydney, which sits in Botany Bay. What on Earth is that supposed to mean? That the bay itself wasn't suitable for settlement as it was full of water? Richerman   (talk) 10:29, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: you are entirely correct. Sydney does not sit in Botany Bay, it sits on Port Jackson. Will change it in the article. Also, it was Banks who most notably described Botany Bay as the ideal place for a settlement, not Cook. Will find the reference and add this also. -- Euryalus (talk) 11:11, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: These days Botany is Sydney's port, not Port Jackson...--Jack Upland (talk) 08:40, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: True re the commercial seaport location, but the city of Sydney proper is on the shoreline of Port Jackson, as was the convict settlement that Arthur Phillip named Sydney in 1788. -- Euryalus (talk) 09:03, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I've expanded the section to clarify why they relocated and how far they moved. I've also added citations, which is something this article is very short of. When sections in an article refer back to other articles they still need to have their own citations. Richerman   (talk) 12:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Sydney in Botany Bay or not? 

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message: When editing this page in wikitext mode, an error is reported:
::Script warning: One or more  templates have errors; messages may be hidden.
I don't have a message debugging setup to work out which cite web's are faulty.
Dan Shearer (talk) 21:21, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  cite web errors 

message: "Convicts in Australia" sounds like it should include information about present-day criminal justice in Australia, but this article is historical. Ironic sensibilities (talk) 23:28, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we move this to "Penal colonies in Australia" please