Talk:American Airlines Flight 11

message: The source for the time of 08:46:40 is the NTSB Flight Path Study from February 2002. The 9/11 commission report (July 2004) repeats this, citing the NTSB. The source for 08:46:30 is NCSTAR 1-9 (November 2008). This is both more thorough and more recent. It discusses the times in detail in section 5.2.3, Timing of Key Events. This presents the times of various events, uncertainties in timing, and the process used to determine when things happened to how many significant figures. This source, both more detailed and more recent, is the one we should use. Alternatively, we should stop fussing with 08:46:40/08:46:30 and report the time as 8:46. If reliable sources make an issue of 08:46:40/08:46:30 then we can look at that, but mainstream sources don't really take this up. If this all seems incomprehensibly fussy and obsessive, do a Google search for "8:46:40" "8:46:30" and see who does take this up. (posted at Talk:Timeline for the day of the September 11 attacks and Talk:American Airlines Flight 11.) Tom Harrison Talk 13:13, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timing 

message: It says in the lead "Many in the streets witnessed the strike; several video recordings show the initial impact, the most well known being that recorded by Jules Naudet."
"Several" is a little inaccurate. There is some guy who was going into a tunnel that got kind of like the explosion, there was a time-lapse shot, or whatever they are called, where it is only like 3 or 4 pictures of it, then there is the Naudet footage. So really there is only one shot showing the impact, not just the explosion. So the word "several", at least to me isn't really accurate. 
I propose the minor change to this or something similar: 
"Many in the streets witnessed the strike; however few video recordings captured the moment. Documentary film maker Jules Naudet captured the only known footage of the initial impact." Zdawg1029 (talk) 06:26, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of videos that captured it 

message: This is a featured article. I assume it was reviewed very carefully. I respect that.
How about this proposal? The actions of Betty Ong should be separated from the article and put at the very end.
I think such proposal is bad but it is consistent with what other editors are suggesting in the 2015 Thalys train attack article talk page (last section). They want to separate the actions of the crew and stick it at the end. Maybe they want to hide it?
I will do it for this article to see how it looks then revert it back within a minute. By looking at the diffs, you can see if it improves it.
What do you think? Sandra opposed to terrorism (talk) 17:29, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Article should be left in the original order. Experimenting with position of paragraphs should only be made when consensus is gained from editors who have worked hard to make this a featured article. David J Johnson (talk) 21:09, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to change this article. 

message: "Some workers found bodies strapped to airplane seats and discovered the body of a flight attendant with her hands bound, suggesting the hijackers might have used plastic handcuffs."
I am not a conspiracy theorist, but this paragraph casts some doubts.Here, it says that some workers found a body of a flight attendant of Flight 11 at Ground Zero with her body bound to the seat, suggesting that the hijackers used plastic handcuffs.
If it is the case, it should have reported by Betty Ong and Amy Sweeney, that a flight attendant is tied to a seat by the hijackers or she is held by the hijackers.
Can someone help me answer this oddity?? Books Nash (talk) 11:09, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Books, I really don't see any problem at all here. Betty Ong and Amy Sweeney made calls at a very stressfull time and couldn't have reported everything. In any case had one of them done so, it does not add anything to the outcome. Regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 11:42, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of Plastic Handcuffs 

message: "Suqami's passport survived the crash and landed in the street below. Soaked in jet fuel, it was picked up by a passerby who gave it to a New York City Police Department (NYPD) detective shortly before the South Tower collapsed."
Something is really fishy.How come passport, made up of the most fragile and combustible object, PAPER, managed to survive a fiery explosion and inferno of the impact of Flight 11 on North Tower and land unscathed on the ground, so much that we can even easily read and identify that it belonged to hijacker Satam al Suqami.
Can someone explain this oddity?? Books Nash (talk) 10:19, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh dear, we are straying into "conspiracy theory" territory again! It is certainly not "fishy" or an "oddity". Firstly, when the aircraft hit the Trade Center tower, the impact sent debris over a large area of ground - documents included. Secondly, a passport (and I speak from many years experience of the production of passports and other high-security items) does have a hard card cover, which is not a fragile or quickly combustible. In fact passport covers are designed to protect the pages of the document from damage - however caused. Also please do not use caps - it is considered shouting. David J Johnson (talk) 10:41, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

text: Frankly, I don't understand.  You are attempting to add conspiracy theories to Wikipedia on the 9/11 attacks and this will not work, as you need reliable sources and references, which you seem unable to supply. David J Johnson (talk) 18:07, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Books Nash merely made a point of information and you immediately attack his question as conspiracy-oriented? I think that is a personal attack and completely inappropriate. Leaving out that personal attack and just providing the information requested would have been the most appropriate thing to do. Let's avoid that sort of thing in the future, shall we? Jtpaladin (talk) 11:00, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

text: Books Nash...basically, things happen. Had three or four passports belonging to hijackers been recovered and no passports from any passengers, then that might be odd.--MONGO 02:32, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Papers --some singed, some unburnt-- were visible on news footage and amateur video wafting out of the burning towers from impact to collapse. Some drifted in the wind as far as Brooklyn. Cramyourspam (talk) 00:50, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Magic Passport  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The events of both flights have been memorialized on film. For unclear reasons, some apparently consider film of AA Flight 11 "trivia" while film of UA Flight 93 is OK. I see both events of both flights are interesting, impactful, and films of their final hours as worthy of note in the articles. This includes Zero Hour (2004 TV series), made by the same folks behind Mayday (Canadian TV series).
PLawrence99cx (talk) 18:45, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You should have kept your comments here and not on my personal Talk page. However, I have answered your query there. David J Johnson (talk) 20:24, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Your logic: United 93 is based on factual events and based on passengers conversations with relatives and also with a some of the actual persons involved. My logic: Zero Hour S1 E3 is based on factual events and based on passengers conversations with relatives and also with a some of the actual persons involved. There is no logical distinction between them. PLawrence99cx (talk) 23:14, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: AA Flight 11 vs UA Flight 93 films

message: "Some workers found bodies strapped to airplane seats and discovered the body of a flight attendant with her hands bound, suggesting the hijackers might have used plastic handcuffs."
I find this a little hard to believe, given the fact that the occupants of the plane were subjected to 465-MPH impact forces, raging fires and explosions, and the collapse of the building.76.0.130.8 (talk) 20:40, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not "hard to believe". The impact of Flight 11 sent debris; including bodies, seats, passports (see discussion above) and engine parts over a wide area - not just on the WTC building. David J Johnson (talk) 22:07, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

text: That has two references so you could read those for further verifications.--MONGO 22:18, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Bodies?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: What happened to him while he was in the plane? Was he stabbed to death or did they use Mace to gain control? I would think that the pilot wouldn’t just voluntarily give up control of their flight without a fight to the death. Any help? He’s only mentioned once in the article and I can’t find any sources for how he died anywhere.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:A000:1322:8149:85A9:A3CA:6A89:7C5 (talk) 17:53, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Officer Thomas McGuinness? 

message: The article quotes the "pilot of the first aircraft to hit New York's World Trade Centre was told that he was "not going to get hurt" as Arab hijackers stabbed air stewardesses at the rear of the plane to lure him out of the cockpit... Ogonowski...had the presence of mind to activate a "push-to-talk" button intermittently so that the authorities on the ground could listen to the horrific events unfolding on board American Airlines Flight 11. Ogonowski was told: "Don't do anything foolish. You're not going to get killed." But even as this was happening, the pilot and his co-pilot, Tom McGuinness, knew that their stewardesses were being attacked with knives at the back of the aircraft."
This makes no sense, the article makes it sounds like Ogonowski was heard on some (unreleased) transmissions: Atta grabbed the ATC radio (which we were told he probably thought was the PA system) and made his statements and then put the ATC radio back. When Ogonowski pushed the yoke mic button whatever he and Atta said could be heard. Addtinoaly, the article makes it sound like Atta was saying his infamous words to the pilots, when from the recording he is clearly saying it (at least he thought) to the passengers. 
I was the one who actually uploaded this source (at least the Telegraph one) on 13:32, 21 January 2017‎. from Ogonowski`s article. It was removed from the Ogonowski article by Tkbrett, and ironically, David J Johnson who is resolute to keep it removed it previously on 09:09, 13 July 2016, saying‎ and I quote "Telegraph article did not name reliable sources and was filed in immediate events after 9/11". 
The fact is, Flight 11's captain did not key the microphone. As Tkbrett mentioned, the article suggesting he did was written immediately during the confusion of 9/11 and I had (due to my young age, was wanting to perverse the myth of some of the herosim on 9/11) wanted to make it look like it did happen.
Like it or not, the fact is it did not happen.
*Again, this is an example of an IP (?sock) not signing any contribution they might make on a article Talk page.  This contribution is full of personal opinion and you should read WP:OR.  Whilst it is true that my personal contribution was originally to keep the Telegraph quote removed, my contention now is that the original discussion had no consensus and therefore should stand, per Wikipedia convention. Please consider opening an account. David J Johnson (talk) 14:31, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death of Ogonowski  

message: I have been checking several sources like the LA Times which have the crash time at 8:46:40 A.M. And I find it and the Commission report which has the same time to be the most accurate timestamp. Anyone want to give me feedback on this, I would appreciate it, thanksMiked1992 (talk) 03:30, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  AA11 Crash Time 

message: There are no credible articles written after 2001 claiming that passengers were found strapped in their seats from Flight 11.  It was a rumor at the time but has been debunked countless times.  Why is it not removed? AML11998877 (talk) 09:10, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bodies Found In Plane Seats 

message: In a recording, a few months later in Afghanistan, Al Qaeda's leader, Osama bin Laden, took responsibility for the attack. The attack on the World Trade Center exceeded even bin Laden's expectations: he had expected only the floors above the plane strikes to collapse.
The "videos" have been removed from the original page as evidenced in the Talk page, should this segment exist on this page? Should that page have a reference still added? Shadowjonathan (talk) 09:11, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video of Osama Bin Laden taking responsibility is removed