Talk:Shaka sign

message: I've added the POV check as there seems to be competing shaka origin theories floating around, and only one is included in the present article. --Viriditas  | Talk 11:49, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And a big mahalo for adding it too, because I grew up in the Islands and this is the very first time I've ever heard this story. "Chee, missionary guys like cockaroach everyteeng—Mormons dem makeeng like dey own da culture awreddy—even shaka sign suppoze stay Mormon now." I'm shaka'ed, I tell you, shaka'ed... <g> --IslandGyrl 20:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: POV check

message: I edited the article to make it clear that the hukilau theory is only a theory. Other theories could be added. I also removed all the gratuitous references to the LDS, Brigham Young, etc. Zora 00:24, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not the place to proselytize for the LDS. The theory is only a theory and until we have some kind of proof, we don't emphasize one theory over another, or give it more space. Zora 05:09, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed LDS POV 

message: Which way should the Shaka sign be oriented - with knuckles facing the recipient, or with palm facing them?  Is doing it backwards considered rude or merely silly?  Does it not matter which direction it's facing?  This isn't clear in the article and someone who knows the answer should add it.  -Kasreyn 06:00, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I've always seen it with the palm out. That's what comes naturally. But people tend to sorta rotate the wrist back and forth to emphasize the sign. Zora 06:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Zora!  Should we add to the article that it's unimportant which way the sign is facing, or that it should be palm-out?  I'm sure I'm not the first who's been confused by that.  -Kasreyn 23:22, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, never mind.  It's already in the article.  *blush*  -Kasreyn 23:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  No need to blush. After your question, I added it to the article. Zora 23:30, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Um, I've lived in Hawai'i 30 years. I think you're wrong. Zora 03:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thinking about it, I think it goes either way, depending on where the signer and signee are standing.  If I'm giving the sign with my right hand to someone on either side of me, I hold it thumb towards me, so someone on the left of me gets "palm out" and someone on my right will get "palm in".  To someone directly in front, like I said, I usually see palm in, but I guess it could be either. zellin t / c 05:57, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen it both ways but where I come from, mostly it's done w/ the palm facing towards the person making the sign. Mamoahina (talk) 20:56, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  The confusion arises from the position of the person making the sign and the hand that is used.  The "classic" shaka is rotated back and forth as Zora observes, although this appears more of an old skool display.  There are also inventive ways of giving the shaka, such as shaking a fist as if you have something in it, and then sprouting a shaka at the last second, etc. Viriditas (talk) 21:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In all seriousness, it really doesn't matter.  In my 8 years of living here, I see the back side of the hand presented the majority of the time in nearly every area on O'ahu, but I've also seen it presented every other way from palm-forward, to back of the hand forward, to knuckles forward (like a shaka-punch), and pinky forward.  The fact is that nobody is running around correcting anybody because nobody really knows the right answer nor do they actually care.  Just watch the end on every KHON news broadcast and you'll see people doing it all sorts of ways.    You'll see it depicted on local business signs and stickers both ways, kanaka maoli friends of mine throw shaka both ways, and locals throw it both ways. Even the quintessential Hawaiian, Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (Braddah Iz), is pictured with the back of his hands facing the audience in one piece of album arthttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/00/43/fd/0043fd200859dcfa329c12f3cf49d8ab--israel-kamakawiwo%CA%BBole-over-the-rainbow.jpg and the front of hand visible in other album arthttp://archives.starbulletin.com/2004/04/14/features/art3a.jpg. I think putting an "accepted" version of it really takes away from the overall idea of why people use it.  It should also be noted that the emojee for the shaka on the iPhone shows the back of the hand; not that Apple is the be-all end-all authority for how hand gestures are supposed to be oriented, but one can safely assume some research went into the choice to present it this way (and there seems to be no complaint or push-back from Hawai'i Magazine http://www.hawaiimagazine.com/content/there-finally-shaka-emoji; in fact, Hawai'i Magazine even describes the fingers forward way as "the tourist way"). I would strongly suggest the opening blurb that establishes an "accepted" version in Hawai'i makes sure to mention that there is no right or wrong way or even an established standard way of doing it.  Just my two cents...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 215.1.59.11 (talk) 19:43, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Apologies- did not realize I was posting anonymously... this is me from the post above!Jcuralli (talk) 20:09, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

text: Another point for the "back of the hand faces the recipient" side- Bumpy Kanahele throws shaka showing the back of his hand: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mma-core.com%2Fimages%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F86885.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mma-core.com%2Fphotos%2FHanging_with_uncle_Bumpy_Kanahele_B_J_Penn_Instagram_Post_January_14_2012%2F86885&docid=92e3oA0eFjla4M&tbnid=JjQBZ6Nv9nVzSM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwimq6e5r7TVAhWpiFQKHSe0BOEQMwgzKA4wDg..i&w=612&h=612&bih=558&biw=1583&q=bumpy%20kanahele&ved=0ahUKEwimq6e5r7TVAhWpiFQKHSe0BOEQMwgzKA4wDg&iact=mrc&uact=8... I would think a Hawai'i Nationalist leader and founder of Pu‘uhonua o Waimānalo would be an authoritative source.Jcuralli (talk) 20:41, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

text: I should point out that technically, the emoji used by the iPhone is listed in Unicode as the "call me" emoji... it's widely celebrated here as a shaka.Jcuralli (talk) 20:59, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: Why is the picture of a white hand giving the shaka? a little condescending no?
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.198.151.129 (talk • contribs) .
: No. Anybody can give a shaka. We come in all colors in Hawai'i and we don't care much about color. Zora 04:39, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll shaka that! Maikel (talk) 13:23, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will have to think about the philosophical or political question of whether racial profiling is appropriate on Wikipedia.  But following this lead, you can click on the image, and it is posted as something like "gesture with thumb and forefingers extended" by someone who lives in San Jose and has posted Honolulu "tourist photos".  Technically an "authentic Hawaiian" (whatever the race) might (or might not) make some tiny detail about the gesture differently than someone less familiar with the culture, and therefore, regardless of its provenance, this is a hint suggesting that the gesture photo could be updated.  I personally have no standing to say whether the update matters, but I bring this up to actualize the philosophical issue. 70.15.116.59 (talk) 23:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Picture 

message: --
Isn't the finger supposed to point to the east coast and the thumb point to the west? that's what i've always been told?
oh and I've got an additional version of the origins of the shaka and it makes quite a bit of sense; it's that it was the position the hand would take when British soldiers would drink from their uniquely horn shaped flagons, with the thumb holding the flagon near the mouth and the finger following to it's end point. Supposedly the Shaka started as a mocking imitation of this and then spread to being the wave that we all know and love. =) ...I still prefer the dynamite fishing one though...
--
: Never heard east-west thing. As for British soldiers -- WHAT British soldiers? What flagons? British marines here with Lord George Paulet did not endear themselves to anyone, and they were here briefly. Brits don't drink from flagons. Zora 03:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Brits' influence was neither positive nor long-lived (the only identifiable remnant is in the flag).  However, there was that question above, if anyone saw shaka before the 1940s, which is long after the Brits left. 68.178.65.194 02:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question and possible additional origins 

message: The name is actually Hamana Kalili, not Kalili Hamana.  Even the paper wrote it correctly.  It just needs to be in reverse.  Also, it was Libby Espina who had a show "Shocker Theater" back in the 70s or so and he would do that sign as his call sign and said it with a pidgin accent, hence the term - shaka came out of it.  He later used it in his dealership.  Also, a lot of Brazilians use the shaka sign now and the sign has spread all over thanks to the surfing culture and the media.  And both ways (front/back) are used in the islands.  Mamoahina 02:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hamana Kalili 

message: I have realized seven time Formula One World Champion, Michael Schumacher likes to use this sign very often too. Latest example: http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/91534
But I have seen him doing it several times before as well.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.92.38.39 (talk) 12:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous people who use the "Shaka" 

message: Why would the sign also be called EEE, as claimed in the article? Maikel (talk) 13:24, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: EEE?

message: Moved from main page: Viriditas (talk) 08:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, I never heard of anyone on Molokai originating this sign.  I definitely would know this, especially since people of Molokai take pride with things originating on their island like hula and ho'opi'opi'o sorcery. Mamoahina (talk) 05:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced theories 

message: In Britain and Northern Europe the symbol is used as a signal for owners of older model Volkswagen vans when passing on roads. The silhouette of the hand reveals a "W"-shaped outline along the top of the hand standing for Volkswagen.
In Portugal, Spain, and other Spanish or Portuguese speaking countries, if the thumb points to the mouth, it is used to indicate the drinking of alcohol, since it is similar the shape of a porrón vessel.  This is also true in Italy, North America, Russia, and Germany. 
: The sign has nothing to do specifically with drinking alcohol, just simply drinking, in general. It also has nothing to do with any specific drinking vessels and porrón-like vessels aren't even used in Portugal or in any other Portuguese speaking countries that I know of, either. 89.153.150.71 (talk) 07:20, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Have re-inserted Mongrel Mob usage, with added source. RadishSlice (talk) 13:13, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

text: This is also common in Portugal. Quickly and briefly shaking (rotating) the hand while gesturing, to signify the phone "ringing", is also used to add emphasis, although this was more common in the old days of land line phones. 89.153.150.71 (talk) 07:20, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  OR removed 

message: Is there any way to confirm that he was giving a shaka?  He could have very well been in the process of making a "call me" motion (which would be much more in character with his facial expression in that picture). NeverWorker (Drop me a line) 19:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: He was giving the sign to the Punahou high school band as it passed by during the inaugural parade. Obama attended the school when he lived in Hawai'i. The Punahou band marched in his 2013 inauguration and received a shaka from Obama at that time as well. 57.140.28.13 (talk) 22:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obama's Inauguration 

message: Is the shaka sign made with the right or the left hand ? 200.168.20.52 (talk) 08:33, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Right or Left Hand ? 

message: This entire article, esp. the introduction does not meet Wikipedia's quality standards. The punctuated pop culture references to "laxbros" and incorrectly placed references to other articles are unprofessional and do not meet the encyclopedia's standards. 76.28.77.142 (talk) 17:36, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs rewrite 

message: Why is it called "shaka"? 75.4.146.74 (talk) 21:23, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: According to what my Portuguese friend said, David "Lippy" Espinda who was popularized it when he did ads for his cars carried it over to his show known as SHOCKER THEATER and it was the local pronunciation of "shocker" that became "shaka".  My friend was not the only one mentioned this, but obviously it was older people who remembered Lippy's Shocker Theater show. Mamoahina (talk) 05:12, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name origin  

message: From the lede: 
: The Shaka sign may have been derived from early natives' use of a hand signal which symbolized the island of Hawaii, as the outline when viewed from front with thumb up is similar in appearance.
And when did the early natives develop cartography that would enable them to see the shape of the Big Island as seen from space? When I search for "view from Mauna Kea", all the pages are ecstatic about the stars and being above the clouds, but I find no mention of seeing the coastline. The view to the south in particular would, I expect, be blocked by Mauna Loa. 
Since this theory is both improbable and unsourced, I am deleting it.-- Thnidu (talk) 01:23, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  origin theory 

message: In all this talk there's no indication of how to pronounce "shaka". Is the first "a" as in "ha-ha" or as in "shake"? 
OK, I see the "shocker" theory up above, so I guess it's /'ʃɑkɑ/ or /'ʃɑkə/. Whichever, or if (as is likely) it varies between Hawaiians and others, it/they should be in the lede section. 
-- Thnidu (talk) 01:29, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  pronunciation 

message: There have been repeated attempts to add Puerto Rico as a place / culture where the shaka sign is used, most of them by the same IP, 65.96.74.31, marked below with ⬅. None of them are referenced, and they have been repeatedly reverted by bots and by different editors, most of them IP. 
 replaced "Hawaii" with "Hawaii and puerto rico"  in category links, resulting in the category redlinks 
Hawaii and puerto rico culture and  Symbols of Hawaii and puerto rico
I am manually reverting all of these changes, as they are all unreferenced and mostly from the same anonymous editor, whose behavior constitutes a kind of one-against-many edit warring, in spirit if not literally (as they have not always been the same strings). I am also  requesting semi-protection for this page.
Below is a list of edits connected with inserting Puerto Rico into the article, and reversions thereof, found with the help of AWB. This list contains all of them: AWB found no previous occurrences of "puerto ric" all the way back to . (AWB ignores case. I searched for "puerto ric" to find "Puerto Rican" as well as "Puerto Rico", and "puertorr" to catch forms of the Spanish word "puertorriqueño".) I have edited the version headers and changes for readability.
: Revision as of 04:29, 28 April 2015
: 65.96.74.31  ⬅ 
: ADDED
: Especially in Puerto Rico
: Revision as of 04:30, 28 April 2015
: Edward321
: (rv unsourced) 
: DELETED
: Especially in Puerto Rico
: Revision as of 04:33, 28 April 2015
: 65.96.74.31  ⬅ 
: ADDED
: especially in Puerto Rico because surf culture is very popular there aswell
: Revision as of 03:41, 7 May 2015
: 76.173.108.105 
: ADDED
: . People also use it to allow people in cars to go or to say thank you for letting them go
: Revision as of 03:41, 7 May 2015
: ClueBot NG 
: m (Reverting possible vandalism by 76.173.108.105 to version by 65.96.74.31. False positive? Report it. Thanks, ClueBot NG. (2225658) (Bot))
: DELETED
: . People also use it to allow people in cars to go or to say thank you for letting them go
: Revision as of 05:28, 9 June 2015 
: 65.96.74.31   ⬅ 
: ADDED
: and Puerto Rican
: Revision as of 05:44, 9 June 2015 
: 65.96.74.31   ⬅ 
: ADDED
: and cudtoms 
: ADDED
: . Puerto Rico is the first and only Caribbean and Latin country to adopt the shaka symbol and Hawaiian culture and language and mix it with puerto rican spanish and custom and culture since the 1960s and many famous surfers from puerto rico such as jotge machuca stsrred this back in the 1960s and in puerto rico
: Revision as of 15:03, 9 June 2015 
: 71.31.77.244
: cudtoms → customs
: Revision as of 00:08, 14 June 2015 
: 201.170.178.171
: DELETED
: especially in Puerto Rico because surf culture is very popular there as well. Puerto Rico is the first and only Caribbean and Latin country to adopt the shaka symbol and Hawaiian culture and language and mix it with puerto rican spanish and custom and culture since the 1960s and many famous surfers from puerto rico such as jotge machuca stsrred this back in the 1960s and in puerto rico.
: Revision as of 02:45, 28 August 2015 (edit) (undo)
: 104.58.168.115
: DELETED
: and Puerto Rican
: Revision as of 05:50, 20 June 2016 (edit) (undo)
: 65.96.74.31  ⬅ 
: ADDED
: In Puerto Rico it is also very common especially among surfers and also
: Revision as of 09:42, 9 July 2016 (edit) (undo)
: 65.96.74.31  ⬅ 
: ADDED
: usually done as a greeting with a slight flick of the wrist but it also means "todo chevere o bien"which means everything is cool or good in spanish a it is 
: ADDED
: popular
: Revision as of 09:46, 9 July 2016 (edit) (undo)
: 65.96.74.31  ⬅ 
: ADDED
: Puerto Rico
: Revision as of 00:53, 13 July 2016 (edit) (undo)
: 67.138.179.162
: puertovricans → puertoricans
: Latest revision as of 02:08, 13 July 2016 (edit) (undo)
: Thnidu
: puertoricans → Puerto Ricans
Please  me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 09:06, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  
Puerto Rico
 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: § Similar gestures begins 
: The sign can also be used to ask for a speakerphone at ASD workplace...
There's no reference for this assertion, which was added , and no explanation of "ASD workplace". It may refer to the American School for the Deaf, but there's no way to tell. A search of the school's website finds no mention of "speakerphone" (not that I really expected it to). I've deleted the clause. 
--Thnidu (talk) 01:51, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar gestures 

message: Have a look at similar pages that have achieved good article status, such as OK (gesture) or the finger. Note that these discuss the shape made by the hand, and then delve into its various meanings. Shaka is on its way to doing this too, but it needs a little help from you, fellow editors. Who's up for the task? Morganfitzp (talk) 21:42, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to clean up this article 

message: I’ve seen the Shaka sign not only mean “call me”, but also (at least in UK offices) meaning: I’m on the phone/call. Or inquisitively, as “are you on the phone”, typically asked whilst peeking through office windows, or cracks of office doors. 
Anyone else familiar with this? 86.20.231.19 (talk) 08:14, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Usually, the "on the phone" context only occurs when one is holding the little finger & thumb near the mouth & ear. Peaceray (talk) 17:22, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the phone, or are you on the phone? 

message: "The gesture enjoys common use in American hang gliding culture, for both sentiment and wordplay"
Maybe it's obvious to native English speakers, but: what wordplay? --2003:C0:8F03:D300:81D3:6015:F7F4:640F (talk) 08:22, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It makes no sense to me either.  I've removed it. Dan Bloch (talk) 16:58, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wordplay 

message: A recent edit by  makes the claim that "shaka" has African origins, especially with the Zulu which had a king named "Shaka". This addition was added unsourced,  and . Upon reversion stating they were good faith edits and with a request that they add a reliable source  they re-added the information and moved the current source for the statement as if that source verified what they were asserting with an edit summary of "FACTS", . The source does not verify this nor imply what they are trying to add. Upon that I reverted  with a warning placed on their talk page. They then re-added  with a direct external link to this baby name site which is not a reliable source as per WP:RS. I did a quick search trying to find a reliable source which states the word as it relates to the sign or meaning of the sign, not the name, has African or Zulu origins. The proper noun most definitely has Zulu origins as a king carried the name, however, even in that instance I can not find where a clear definition is given. If anyone is interested in searching or knows of a particular source then please help. I believe the editor is acting in good faith and their claim may be legitimate however I can not find a reliable source to verify the claim. --ARoseWolf 17:11, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins of "shaka"