Talk:Tin Man (miniseries)

message: List of Tin Man characters is mostly fancruft.  I mean really: Neal McDonough who plays as Wyatt Cain "said that he enjoyed working with" Trujillo "and felt tremendous compassion for him.   Is this an encyclopedia or People magazine?  By trimming the fluff and editorial commentary, this could easily fit under "Cast and characters". - Jason A. Quest (talk) 13:34, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I 100% agree with you. Please feel free to merge it. Excellent job merging the other character articles! --IllaZilla (talk) 17:49, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Did I miss a discussion for this new merger proposal?  The first notice I got of anything was that all of the images used on the Azkadellia article had been orphaned.  I thought that at least there would have been a second AfD before unilateral action was taken.  Moreover, doesn't a merger usually entail retention of the significant content from the article that is subsumed?  I'm not seeing very much of any of the character articles in this one; rather, it's just noted that the Tin Man article is too long.  Banazir (talk) 03:10, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The only "significant content" worth merging was the real-world info on the actors' portrayals and critical opinion, as that was, in fact, retained. The rest was merely character-specific plot summary (and the plot is already summarized in this article) and excessive non-free images. If you'll look at the diffs of JasonAQuest's edits, you'll see that he did in fact merge all of the sourced, real-world information from the individual character articles into this article. --IllaZilla (talk) 03:15, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fair enough, but as I posted on his talk page (and above), there exists a list of Tin Man characters, which is where I would advocate merging the Azkadellia material except the source material pertinent specifically to critical reception of the miniseries.  Or are you still planning on folding that into this article, too?  As for the content, I'm not sure why you've put that specific phrase in quotes; should I read that as just a quotation, or do you mean it ironically?  For the record, I understand where JasonAQuest is coming from with the characterization of in-story POV material as fancruft, but to me that just means it belongs in a TWWOO or "SF reimaginings" wiki.  Ergo, I intend (as time permits) to first work on a more careful subsumption and condensation of the material from Azkadellia that actually belongs, then on transwiking the in-story material wherever it best belongs.  -- Banazir (talk) 08:48, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant it as a quote, but I guess there was a grain of sarcasm to it. In my opinion the list of characters should be merged as well, as it's nothing but more plot summary. I mean really, this is a 3-episode SyFy miniseries...does anyone really think that there's enough secondary source coverage out there to justify more than a single article about it? Is there any verifiable, real-world information about the characters that wouldn't fit just fine into the main article? Best to keep it at just one article, and work on improving it to at least GA. Only if it were to grow to excessive size would it be pertinent to consider separate character articles (per WP:SS), but I honestly don't see that ever happening. --IllaZilla (talk) 10:41, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

text: I agree the plot summary isn't that bad any more, but if we're going to merge the character article in as well, it's going to need work; if the consensus is to retain it, Azkadellia's character description (independent of plot) should be merged there, and was probably the most fleshed out of the four main characters (Az, DG, Glitch, Cain).  There is an Oz wiki with its own Tin Man article; I just hadn't researched it before. The main question is whether Azkadellia should be forked from the Wicked Witch of the West article that the name currently redirects to, as the wiki currently puts derivative characters (even reimaginings) under their original TWOO analogues.  I'll have to talk to the Oz Wiki folks and see what the feeling is.  Thanks for the offer, though; I've had my developers set up a few Mediawikis for me a few years back (c. 2005-2006), but I should really learn to do it myself.  -- Banazir (talk) 15:26, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you talking about this character description? Because to me it just reads like "plot summary part 2" and of course is fully unreferenced. --IllaZilla (talk) 18:56, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As a rule of thumb, for any character which has appeared only in one story, character description = plot summary.  Who she is = what she does in the story. - Jason A. Quest (talk) 20:03, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

text: I couldn't find any substantial sources for the list of characters article. I'd recommend summarizing and merging it. Shooterwalker (talk) 02:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal 2

message: The article rightly states "Wyatt Cain (Neal McDonough), a former "Tin Man" law enforcer who was locked in an iron suit for years as punishment for opposing Azkadellia". The story tells us that Glitch designed the machine that was torturing Cain while he was in the suit, turned on by Azkadellia's henchman, Zero. It is not vandalism to put this in the article as another one of the machines she stole from Glitch, unless one is synthesising Glitch created it for the purpose of torturing Cain.  76.20.213.207 (talk) 22:43, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the vandalism edit summary was in error, as this is a content dispute rather than vandalism. That said, I don't recall anything in the story where it's stated that any other of Glitch's designs were stolen except for the Sun Seeder. Sure, there are other things he invented that Azkadellia's forces are now using to their own ends, but they didn't steal these designs, at least not in the same way that they stole the Sun Seeder (by physically removing part of his brain). For example, Glitch invented the hologram device, but the fact that Zero was using it to torture Cain doesn't mean that he stole the design. Glitch certainly didn't intend for it to be used this way, but using it for nefarious ends isn't the same thing as stealing it. If I recall correctly, Glitch invented many things during his time as the queen's adviser, but the only one explicitly stated to have been stolen from his mind is the Sun Seeder. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:56, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fair enough.  You made some good points. 76.20.213.207 (talk) 09:02, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Machines stolen 

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