Talk:Dog breeding

message: I completely agree with the writer's POV on the idea of the edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dog_breeding&oldid=697179610); however, needs to cite some references that are in print.  I know that they're out there.  I think that it'll be hard to find a reference that "breeders are motivated by money", but should be possible to find articles such as stating that the preferred long-legged look of the American GSD has led to ongoing problems in the breed, or that shelties (I think it is) that have a genetic seizure disorder that a woman in England (I believe) has been fighting to get rid of the problem that's not officially acknowledged, or that some breeds (bull dogs?) have to be artificially inseminated and given cesarean sections because their bodies can no longer do these things naturally, or that pugs with their shortened skulls and large eyes are prone to encephalitis, etc.  
Also, refer to earlier discussion on this talk page about criticism--the argument that it criticized the AKC the way it was originally phrased is a valid argument, but at the moment this article IS very bland about what breeders have done to many breeds, and not just in the U.S.  
Elf | Talk 22:50, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The entire article is messy and not particularly well written or in compliance with NPOV. Personally, I dislike the keeping of dogs solely as pets in the home and think the worst thing that ever happened to dogs was the away-from-the-land movement. Two hundred years ago, a dog with serious health defects would have been killed before it got a chance to breed, and a dog that couldn't fulfill some useful purpose would probably suffer the same fate. I think this article could stand to point out that it is the pet market that drives most breeding, and guess which breeds have the most health issues? Pet breeds. I grew up in a part of the world where dogs were a utility animal. They hunted, guarded houses or farms, or killed rats, but they weren't pets. Is it any coincidence that I never saw a dog with a genetic defect until I was older, and it was of a pet breed with no utility value? White Arabian Filly Neigh 21:51, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok but unbred dogs can't run like a greyhound, guard like a great Pyrenees, or kill rats like a terrier.  Breeds were originally created to make dogs better for purposes like the ones you mention.  Clearly inbreeding is a problem, but if we'd never bred dogs they wouldn't have all these functions and abilities. This article doesn't mention this, which is another side of the story that's also true.  I will try to find a citation for it.  I think Desmond Morris makes that point somewhere that we can cite this fact. Chrisrus (talk) 07:32, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Additionally, there are a number of research teams at work using whole-genome sequencing trying to ascertain which gene expressions ("flavors", if you like) gave rise to these traits - this research does not have a home on Wikipedia. This article would probably be the place for it, but I am not sure if that is what people are looking for when they come to this page. Alternately, there is already an article on Selective breeding which could include a dog section. Regards,  William Harris |talk  19:59, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This good idea deserves consideration and constitutes a topic shift.  If you don't mind and don't want to do it yourself, I'd insert a break with its own title at the topic shift point so as to better keep the discussions separate.  That way, each gets its due.  Chrisrus (talk) 16:11, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

text: We wouldn't want Wikipedia to omit good information because we don't know where to put it, so let's find a place for it.  The problem seems to be that this would naturally fall under the topic of Dog breeds, not dog breeding.  Hmmm....  Chrisrus (talk) 16:20, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a fair assessment. There are snippets that I will put up there from time to time, but nothing systematic. Here is one you will find fascinating: the Brachycephaly group of dogs eg. mastiff, boxer, with their domed heads, shortened muzzle, and massive jaws (there is a sketch of a boxer skull on Evolution of the wolf compared to a wolf's that demonstrates the massive ramus and reinforced jaw) - hidden in their genes, the mighty Borophagus secundus is not as far away as we think! Regards,  William Harris |talk  19:38, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you link me to one or two of these references that you're thinking about here, please? Chrisrus (talk) 19:51, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a few that are related and I am looking through them at present, but here is one to whet your appetite: you could get lost in here: escholarship.org/uc/item/3hw582pm.pdf   William Harris |talk  10:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed a paragraph in criticism of dog breeding and here's why

message: :::Additionally, there are a number of research teams at work using whole-genome sequencing trying to ascertain which gene expressions ("flavors", if you like) gave rise to these traits - this research does not have a home on Wikipedia. This article would probably be the place for it, but I am not sure if that is what people are looking for when they come to this page. Alternately, there is already an article on Selective breeding which could include a dog section. Regards,  William Harris |talk  19:59, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This good idea deserves consideration and constitutes a topic shift.  If you don't mind and don't want to do it yourself, I'd insert a break with its own title at the topic shift point so as to better keep the discussions separate.  That way, each gets its due.  Chrisrus (talk) 16:11, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: We wouldn't want Wikipedia to omit good information because we don't know where to put it, so let's find a place for it.  The problem seems to be that this would naturally fall under the topic of Dog breeds, not dog breeding.  Hmmm....  Chrisrus (talk) 16:20, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a fair assessment. There are snippets that I will put up there from time to time, but nothing systematic. Here is one you will find fascinating: the Brachycephaly group of dogs eg. mastiff, boxer, with their domed heads, shortened muzzle, and massive jaws (there is a sketch of a boxer skull on Evolution of the wolf compared to a wolf's that demonstrates the massive ramus and reinforced jaw) - hidden in their genes, the mighty Borophagus secundus is not as far away as we think! Regards,  William Harris |talk  19:38, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you link me to one or two of these references that you're thinking about here, please? Chrisrus (talk) 19:51, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a few that are related and I am looking through them at present, but here is one to whet your appetite: you could get lost in here: escholarship.org/uc/item/3hw582pm.pdf   William Harris |talk  10:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Topic Shift

message: The article Dog breed averages 900 visitors each day and is rated B class on the quality scale. This article averages only 120 each day, is rated as Start class on the quality scale, and comprises largely of a contentious history section and a criticism section - it actually says little about dog breeding. There would be merit in transferring its contents under Dog breed and turning this article into a redirect to that article. Regards,  William Harris |talk  07:09, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge of content? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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