Talk:We'wha

message: Are we really sticking with "they?" I find it extremely confusing. I guess it might come more naturally to those people who find themselves reading articles about transpeople more often but for laypersons it's really weird. Dennis C. Abrams (talk) 20:36, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with this. However, before deciding, is there a Wikipedia policy on pronoun use? Ibanix (talk) 15:42, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently pronoun usage is inconsistent. "They" is used in the beginning, but "she" is used later on. I am not familiar enough with the subject matter to make a definite call over which pronoun ought to be preferred, but it ought to be consistent (unless there's a good reason for inconsistency). "They" seems to make sense to me, since We'wha was what is considered to be part of a "third gender" (lhamana). Plus, "they" can accurately describe anyone, even a man or a woman. The article also contains the offensive (and inaccurate) sentence "[s]he is historically known mainly for the fact that she was man but chose to live out her life as a woman" among other issues. This needs to be fixed. 50.243.219.54 (talk) 05:59, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Commenting up top here on purpose: Period sources, by close friends and family, usually used masc pronouns. Most of the sources using fem pronouns have been non-Native, and, often, revisionist. So... Cleaning up the article, I have kept the original pronouns in all quotes, and, as they vary so thoroughly in the reliable sources, I have defaulted to neutral in any text that is in WP's voice. Indigenous gender identities are not modern trans, and many don't even fit into the idea of "two-spirit", which many traditional people see as an "urban neologism". - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 18:19, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear driveby IPs, I know you mean well, but this is not a modern, LGBTQ article, person, or concept. Please give this person the cultural and personal respect of understanding them on their own terms, and not revising the sources or history to try to mistranslate them into modern, white, terminology or understandings. The "changing ones" use both/multiple pronouns, as they take on different roles at different times in life. They do not need to have "[sic]" put in after the descriptions written by their friends, nor do they need the descriptions and histories written by people from their cultures altered. Thanks. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 22:30, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I am a two spirit from New Mexico and find the use of gender neutral pronouns for we wha offensive.  THEY and THEM are very uncommon native terms now and didn't exist historically in we wha's time.  She likely interchanged pronouns based on circumstances or choice in the moment. I personally am offended since the non-native use of neutral language is being pushed on our culture now, but also rewriting history.  We wha would never have understood it and as a two spirit myself, it makes zero sense.  I ask that this modern inaccurate usage be removed...she likely went usually by SHE and HER given her activities and in documentation.   Stop pushing white culture onto us please.  Happyhoneybee (talk) 19:19, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

text: Stevenson is one of the non-Native sources I am referring to. The in-community sources usually use he/him. I am sticking with what is in the sources, and when it is unclear, using they/them. So the article uses all three. Defaulting to she/her for the whole article, especially when the text in other parts of the same sentence uses other pronouns, is not appropriate. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 20:57, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronouns

message: The correct spelling is We'wha. Pronounced WAY-wah.
We'wha visited Washington, D.C. in 1886, not 1866.
Contemporary Zunis refer to We'wha when speaking in English with the male pronoun.
-Will Roscoe, author, The Zuni Man-Woman
:In what manner is "We'wha" the correct spelling? Hyacinth (talk) 14:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: discussion of the article

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Some notes cut from body of article:
 
Still editing. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 17:07, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes cut from body of article in cleanup 

message: The date on the photo in the "We'wha's and Stevenson's friendship" section is captioned "in the 1920's", well after the subject's date of death. Not sure what the correct date would be?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.105.253 (talk) 17:28, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like that's the date the collector acquired the photo. If and when the date is found, it can be added. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 22:22, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date on photo? 

message: I am a two spirit from New Mexico and find the use of gender neutral pronouns for we wha offensive. THEY and THEM are very uncommon native terms now and didn't exist historically in we wha's time. She likely interchanged pronouns based on circumstances or choice in the moment. I personally am offended since the non-native use of neutral language is being pushed on our culture now, but also rewriting history. We wha would never have understood it and as a two spirit myself, it makes zero sense. I ask that this modern inaccurate usage be removed...she likely went usually by SHE and HER given her activities and in documentation. Stop pushing white culture onto us please.   I am 60 years old and have been a Two Spirit since birth....before that term existed, as well.   It is important to respect We Wha and not make decisions for her by guessing she would have used gender neutral pronouns.  Apologies about not knowing how to post well on here...it is my first time to do so. Happyhoneybee (talk) 19:32, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Peaceray (talk) 23:04, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not an imposition of white culture gender neutral language. "They" is used to signifiy uncertainty. We'Wha went by different pronouns at different times in "their" life. Instead of vacillating between the two terms throughout the article or innacurately sticking to one throughout, it makes more sense to use the pronouns "they/them." Again, not as an imposition of white colonialism, but merely a placeholder for lack of a better consistent alternative.  James Goodyear (talk) 20:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove white culture gender neutral language please. It is offensive. 

message: I've been researching We'wha's life for a book I'm writing and can find no evidence that she was accused of witchcraft. It seems she was arrested for obstructing US officers who were attempting to take away a man. This man was accusing another man of witchcraft. If I am wrong where is the account that she was accused of witchcraft sourced? 2A00:23C7:A356:E401:D1D6:BF8E:D464:861F (talk) 07:59, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accusation of witchcraft 

message: — Assignment last updated by Nyxtingale (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: History of Sexuality