Talk:Second Battle of Zurich

message: The "Background" section says, "The coalition forces greatly outnumbered the French", but the infobox puts the French at 75,000, versus 60,000 for the coalition. --Delirium (talk) 00:49, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  numbers 

message: *history of :de:Zweite Schlacht von Zürich
This section is an attribution for an edit on 12 September 2012. The expansion that took place that day was a translation of the text in from the German Wikipedia article as of 3 September 2013, which was done without any attribution. This section meets the requirements of the plagiarism guideline and Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia#Copying from other Wikimedia Projects -- PBS (talk) 16:27, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The second part of the article is still in a very bad shape. I think the tags shouldn't have been deleted. Moagim (talk) 21:18, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attribution for an edit on 12 September 2012 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:First Battle of Zurich which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 15:45, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: Where does the author get the figures of 44,000 Russians and 32,000 Austrians involved in this battle? I'm pretty certain those figures are vast exaggerations of the truth. Digby Smith cites far smaller totals in his works. According to Smith, Korsakov had roughly 20,000 Russian soldiers at his disposal when attacked by Massena. The Austrian contingent under Hotze, which was not at Zurich for the battle, numbered something between 10,000 and 20,000 according to Smith.
Truth be told, I doubt that a sizeable force of 44,000 men would even be entrusted to an untested general such as Rimsky-Korsakov. Perhaps the authors (and some generous assistants) should research this issue? As matters stand, the article greatly exaggerates the size and scope of this encounter.
Kenmore (talk) 01:01, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers of Russian and Austrian troops involved in this battle 

message: Here's some interesting data from The Free Dictionary by Farlex. The article is drawn directly from the old Great Soviet Encyclopedia.
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Swiss+Campaign+of+Suvorov+1799
According to this source - which corresponds with Digby Smith's figures - the following troop strengths existed at various points in Switzerland during the Second Battle of Zurich in 1799.
At Zurich:
24,000 Russians commanded by Rimsky-Korsakov opposed by 38,000 French commanded by Massena
At the Linth River:
10,500 Austrians commanded by Holtze opposed by 15,000 French commanded by Soult and Molitor
In the southern Alpine Passes:
21,000 Russians commanded by Suvorov opposed by 11,800 French commanded by LeCourbe
At other points in Switzerland:
5,000 Austrians near Sargans, commanded by Jelacic; 4,000 Austrians near Ilanz, commanded by Linken; 2,500 Austrians near Disentis, commanded by Aufenberg
In southern Switzerland:
11,500 Austrians commanded by Stauch, Rogan and Hadik opposed by 9,600 French commanded by Turreau
These figures, representing the opposing segments of the armies spread out all across Switzerland, amount to 73,600 French opposed to 78,500 Russians and Austrians. Thus, it seems that the authors of this article (and possible they sources they used) are mistaking the total number of French and Allied soldiers in Switzerland as the total troops present on the battlefield at Zurich. Obviously, that is a mistake.
In truth, the Second Battle of Zurich pitted 38,000 French under Massena against 24,000 Russians under Rimsky-Korsakov. Of course, the French routed the Russians in a two day battle, costing Rimsky-Korsakov as much as one third of his force. Immediately afterwards, without wasting a day, Massena linked his force with that of Soult and Molitor. Consequently, Holtze's 10,500 Austrians were overwhelmed and shattered at the Battle of Linth River. These two defeats meant that Suvorov's ultimate goal of unifying with Rimsky-Korsakov and Holtze near Zurich was destroyed. As a result, Suvorov had no option but to abandon the Swiss campaign and fight his way through the masses of victorious French, ultimately leading his Russian force to safety in southern Germany.
In light of this information, I have three suggestions:
1) Research and confirm the true number of French and Russian forces present for the Second Battle of Zurich. Consult Digby Smith's works in particular.
2) Change the total troop figures for the Second Battle of Zurich to correspond with the true numbers present. 
3) Possibly remove the segment of the Zurich article which treats the Battle of Linthe River as a portion of the Second Battle of Zurich. Perhaps it is more appropriate to treat each action is a separate battle.
Kenmore (talk) 02:05, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The probable true numbers of forces in and around the Second Battle of Zurich