Talk:Enumclaw, Washington

message: Although it is called Mt Baldy locally, and in the history of the area, when i go to the disabiguation page for places called Mt. Baldy (or the List of peaks named Baldy page), i see no reference to this location.  I need to verify the exact location, and get all the particulars  for that page, then re-link when the info is applicable. Nothingofwater (talk) 22:43, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The line about the eruption of Mt Baldy should be removed. The story seems to have originated from an article in the Buckley Banner. There is no evidence for this alleged eruption. Mt Baldy is not a volcano. It is not even a mountain. It is just a rather large hill. --98.117.124.122 (talk) 10:27, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Mt. Baldy

message: Apparently Enumclaw spills over into Pierce (page 2-5 of ) but I can't find much information on that.  A city map seems to suggest that the bit of Enumclaw in Pierce is completely surrounded by unincorporated King county; is that really true?  Could someone add info?  Admittedly, it may not be as, um, exciting as horses, but that's what I was hoping to find here.
The town of Greenwater which is east of Enumclaw in the mountains on Highway 410 is in Pierce County.  Greenwater and Enumclaw share the same zip code (98022).  I assume this is why Enumclaw is reference in the Pierce County information.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.123.171.66 (talk) 21:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Part of the town actually is in Pierce County.  But it is a park.  All the residential areas are in King County (ie, if you live in Enumclaw, you live in King county).  While it seems like splitting hairs, the fact remains that enumclaw has a sliver of land in peirce county. Nothingofwater (talk) 22:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: According to te U.S. Census Bureau Geographic Change Notes, the "area in Pierce County was a deeded piece of land that was never annexed and is not within the city limits." --Polaron | Talk 22:42, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Also in Pierce County?

message: I notice that my contribution on this topic was deleted by Nothingofwater based on two arguments: 
# that it wasn't important: This is a personal point-of-view, as the Talking Grizzly Bear story was featured in AP wire service accounts, and thus was one of the few reasons why Enumclaw was ever mentioned in the national media in the 1980s.
# that this didn't really happen in Enumclaw, but in Greenwater. By this argument the "Enumclaw horse sex case" should have been excluded, as this occurred in rural King County near Enumclaw, not within the city limits.
Note also that the second argument is not based on the version of the story that I linked to, which only mentions Enumclaw. Admittedly that is a less-than-reputable tabloid source, the Weekly World News, but it's available on the web. My statement that the location of the events that led to this report was Greenwater could be supported by the 1985 AP wire-service report, if it can be found on a wiki-referenceable page.
Unfortunately I haven't yet found a web link for an archive that leads to the AP story -- I just have a newspaper clipping -- but I'll appreciate suggestions from more experienced Wiki editors on how to find pre-1990s AP news archives.
I'm not going to get into a pointless delete/restore war over this, but I'll revisit the Talking Grizzly story later when I manage to find a link to the 1985 AP version of events. This news story is still arguably the No. 2 reason why people elsewhere in the country have ever heard of Enumclaw. -- Luckiamute denizen (talk) 00:04, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  1985 Enumclaw Talking Grizzly Bear story 

message: :RFC summary: Dispute whether the article on Enumclaw should include or exclude a reference to a disturbing incident that gained worldwide notoriety.
The case of Kenneth Pinyan (see that article) is causing some debate in this article. 
Kenneth Pinyan died notoriously, with widespread news interest and long-standing state repercussions. His death lead to state law changes, was the #1 most read article of the year in the Seattle Times, and has had a film made related to it, to mention but three items. As one editor has commented above, it is for better or worse what Enumclaw is most known for, to the world at large. 
The Enumclaw Courier Herald described that "The city of Enumclaw popped up on the national media radar in July 2005 ... The incident spurred a stampede of media attention on the city, including a national magazine article." 
;View for inclusion:
An entry in the Enumclaw article read:
:"On July 2, 2005 Kenneth Pinyan, a Seattle resident, died from colonic rupture by an Arabian stallion at a farm near Enumclaw in unincorporated King County. His death led to the criminalization of bestiality in Washington." 
with the narrative "Stop censoring the Pinyan case. It's real. It happened in Enumclaw." 
;View for exclusion:
A contrary view is stated (by an Enumclaw resident judging by the text) that:
:"It has not, and will not shape this town by any means. Indeed, a state law has been passed because of it, but it's merely a piece of news. It has had no impact on the demographic or economic situation of Enumclaw. There is just simply not enough relevance to include it in this wiki. In addition, you would not find that kind of information in a reputable, printed encyclopedia, nor should it be found in Wikipedia." 
and that the link is "irrelevent and vile to say the least" and "did not happen within the city limits".  (same editor)
;Possible COI:
Of the 4 editors who have supported removal, three appear to be self-declared Enumclaw residents or affiliated with the town , and the fourth is a single purpose account . (Some aspects of Wikipedia:Conflict of interest may be relevant if this is the case.)
;Current state of debate:
The above text has been inserted and removed by editors several times, until page protection halted the revert war. 
RFC is sought. How notable is Kenneth Pinyan's case in the context of an article on Enumclaw (i.e., the town, it's notability, and it's history)? Should this item be included or excluded? FT2 (Talk | email) 18:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As a resident of Seattle, I only had a vague recollection of Enumclaw until the horse incident.  Since the incident, whenever anyone in Seattle talks about Enumclaw, it is generally related to some horse sex joke.  I think that currently that is what the town is known for, and a brief mention of the incident would be appropriate -Todd(Talk-Contribs) 20:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think it's necessary for Wikipedia to feed anyone's prurient interests via a link from the town's article.  Maybe the locals know Enumclaw as a place sort of like Catherine the Great's palace, but outsiders who don't know about it and who stumble on the reference while looking for information about Enumclaw might get an unnecessary bit of titillation.  All this horsing around keeps the article from being stable.  (OK, that was bad.)  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 22:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The articles stability is a result of lack of editorial consensus. Hence RFC. FT2 (Talk | email) 23:04, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was making a bad pun with the word "stable". --Elkman (Elkspeak) 23:13, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC: Kenneth Pinyan issue 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Almost everything provided is primary sources. You need secondary sources to prove they are notable. Being published doesn't mean automatic notability....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 13:24, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct, being published in and of itself doesnt mean automatic notability - unless that notability is FOR being widely published. If the subject were published in one journal, or only had their own blog, then it would not amount to any notability; they would merely be a columnist.  In this case however, the subject is published in a number of different newspapers, appears frequently on television programs, has published a number of books, and is well-known in the community. They are also a sought-after speaker at both local and regional events.  In putting the list of references out there, I was trying to give a representative example, but there are far more available. Please help me understand what standard of notability you are looking for, as this already exceeds many others that have not been excluded/removed. Thanks! Nothingofwater (talk) 15:34, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You need source(s) independent of her that says she is notable per WP:NJOURNALIST. Her website can be used for her being from Enumclaw. I removed Unter Null because of a lack of a reliable source saying she is from Enumclaw. Her article says Seattle and Portland but my edit summary states the problems with that....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:12, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Binetti entry in NP section 

message: At 14:24 on Jschlatt's video YOU CAN'T HIDE!, he mentions the Enumclaw horse sex case. Go watch it, then please re-add it Simcity Jayplay (talk) 13:55, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: 1) YouTube is not a valid reference for articles.  2) The topic of the 'horse sex case' has been discussed at length already on this talk page.  3) The community has already arrived at a consensus on how to treat that on this page. Nothingofwater (talk) 17:04, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jschlatt reference