Talk:Association fallacy

message: The introductory paragraph states "An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy"; and yet the first section in the entry shows the logical form of the fallacy. Surely that makes it a FORMAL fallacy, what with having a form and all? I am not familiar enough with the notation to verify the form of the fallacy, but judging by the venn-style diagram representing it, it would seem to be legit?
--Ace42 (talk) 14:01, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd suggest looking this up in books on logical fallacies, but my guess would be that while it is a fallacy to say that being associated with something makes them share the same qualities, it is not a fallacy to say that it increases the probability of it. This goes without saying. A person having hung out at a bank robber's house the day before he robs a bank makes one more likely to be involved in the bank robbery, in terms of probability, than if he lived in another country and had never met that person. Being guilty of the fallacy does not automatically make the premise untrue, it only fails to be proof. It might still be useful in an evidentiary argument. -- RM 12:54, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

text: Isn't the example actually an example of the formal fallacy of illicit minor?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.19.173.160 (talk) 18:14, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

text: As the OP notes, the fact that the example can be diagrammed indicates a fallacy of form.  An informal fallacy, however, is not one of form, but of content.  I'm not very good at coming up with examples.  However, a rough idea would be "I post on Wikipedia. Therefore, I am a nerd."  More formally, "All people who are me are people how post on Wikipedia.  All people who post on Wikipedia are people who are nerds.  Therefore, all people who are me are people who are nerds."  I.e., All A are B, All B are C. Therefore, All A are C.  Formally, this is valid.  However, arguing that anyone has a quality simply due to association with a group, is an unwarranted generalization.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.19.173.160 (talk) 19:22, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The Venn diagram does not discribe a fallacy of any kind, formal or informal.  It is rather a logically correct deductive form which could, thus, be sound or unsound depending on the nature of the premises and conclusion. Nevertheless, it might serve to help illustrate an informal fallacy provided that it was explained as such and that it was not a direct illustration. 64.231.204.120 (talk) 19:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formal or informal fallacy? 

message: I'm deleting this link.  Racial profiling is a heuristic technique, and not an argument in any usual sense of the word.--WadeMcR 07:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to Racial profiling 

message: Please discuss on this page and reach consensus before adding any reference to Vaughan.  — ERcheck (talk) 23:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vaughan references

message: Guilty by association currently redirects here, but I think it could as well redirect to collective guilt. Maybe it needs a disambiguation page with links to both these articles.80.235.69.196 11:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: May-be ''Guilty by association'' should be a disambiguation page

message: The links on the bottom to Propagandacritic.com don't work
:They should be tagged with , if the condition appears to be long-term or permanent.  If the link appears to be permanently dead, one might be able to find an archived version at the Internet Archive site and substitute a link to the archived version. —QuicksilverT @ 17:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Broken links

message: "Barack Obama will not wear a United States flag lapel pin. A lapel pin represents patriotism. Therefore, Barack Obama is not patriotic."
This seems closer to an example of denying the antecedent than an example of the association fallacy.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.85.235.162 (talk) 13:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think examples should really be independent of references to political views, and to persons. For example, it's quite possible that a reader in rural India does not know Obama, or that a reader in North Korea does not understand the examples referring to Communism in the intended way. Volker Siegel (talk) 06:57, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Invalid example 

message: The original graphic intended to illustrate association fallacy was inappropriate.  While it illustrates the fallacious statement, it does not illuminate why the statement is fallacious.  Therefore, I've supplemented it with a Venn diagram, with overlapping circles of various sizes representing A, B and C. —QuicksilverT @ 17:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not a Venn diagram, but rather an Euler one. I have taken the liberty of fixing this. 108.56.186.81 (talk) 04:07, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Cut the crap.  I wasn't born yesterday.  I know what it is, and I have taken the liberty of reverting your ill-informed edits. —QuicksilverT @ 10:19, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor graphic 

message: * 04:24, 22 January 2008 RoyBoy protected Association fallacy ‎ (Persistent vandalism with controversial examples [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed])
The use of controversial examples led to a furious edit war, and hopefully the semiprotection has ended that period.  Perhaps it's okay to unprotect now.
As well as welcoming opinions from regular editors, I've contacted RoyBoy, who protected it. --TS 05:57, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Tony, long time no encounter. Articles like this are special in that whenever something of mild importance hits "association fallacy" gets brought up in forums / blogs. Consequently those new or rusty on this concept come here and simply can't resist in the heat of the moment to add their 2 cents using their hot topic. I'd be curious to see how long it takes for current examples to be added. I'm guessing a few days given health care reform in the US. - RoyBoy 03:44, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Some people may add unsuitable examples in good faith.  But is that a reason to semiprotect, preventing all edits by unregistered users? Why can't useless content additions just be reverted, as we do on all other Wikipedia articles? --TS 05:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Neutral: You didn't take my point completely. I'm not inferring "some", I'm confident a higher proportion than the average article will do just that. I'm not against unprotecting, I'm neutral, moreover are there significant gaps in the article that require beefing up by anon contributions? - RoyBoy 03:27, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Semiprotection review

message: This example seems to fall into the chair/furniture fallacy in terms of the subsets, i.e. "A chair is furniture. A table is furniture. Therefore, a table is a chair."
As I understand it, an association fallacy in this case would be: "A cat has four legs. A cat meows. A dog has four legs. Therefore, a dog meows."
76.22.25.102 (talk) 07:17, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cat / dog example 

message: "Example I: Social justice is a philosophy shared by Nazis and Communists, therefore churches that teach social justice are equivalent to Marxists and Fascists."
Not all Marxists are Communists and not all Fascists are Nazis. This adds another association fallacy (Nazis believe in social justice, Nazis are fascists therefore all Fascists believe in social justice) to the example and overcomplicates it. I'm editing it to reflect an Alice, Bob and Carol example.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.100.140.28 (talk) 10:17, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overcomplication 

message: *Premise A is a type of B
*Premise B is type of C
*Conclusion Therefore, all As are Cs
*Example: A is a football player who on one occasion made a stupid mistake, causing a loss in the match. Therefore A is a bad player who generally makes stupid mistakes.
:That example doesn't fit your variant. Your example is basically, "In one instance, A was B, so A is always B," which isn't an association fallacy at all. I would propose this example to fit your variant: 
:*John played right field in Little League.
:*In Little League, the worst player on the team is generally sent to play right field (because relatively few balls are hit there).
:*Therefore, John must not have been a good player. Milhisfan (talk) 09:23, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another variant 

message: I'm undoing this edit unsupported by sources  - Ihaveacatonmydesk (talk) 21:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  galileo gambit - undo edit 

message: Would a swastika be a good example of this?; the symbol was often perceived as representative of success and favorability, but when adopted by the Nazi Party is was considered hateful and racist simply by association. The swastika therefore receives hate and disgust even when used in its original intent. UN$¢_Łuke_1Ø21Repørts 15:48, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swastika? 

message: Normally, when people normally use this term, the "association" is not an an association of similar ideas; it is an association between people.  E.g., a photo of someone associating with Jeffrey Epstein might be used to imply that this person is a pedophile, or a father's being a terrorist might be used to imply that the son is also a terrorist.  This entire article is strangely built around treating "guilt by association" like some kind of informal logical fallacy (which it is), but it's generally just an attempt at defamation.  See: Bueller 007 (talk) 05:47, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article doesn't describe what people normally consider to be "guilt by association"