Talk:Tomboy

message: Hello. In my quest to improve the articles for improvement in the Community portal, I could'nt help but notice that this article lacks a picture. Surely, a photograph of an adult woman dressed in what everyone could agree on is tomboyish attire would certainly help a visitor to this page educate them on what a tomboy would actually look like. I've taken a trip to the commons, but there doesn't seem to be any quality, usable pictures. If somebody might upload a few pictures, we can discuss its possible addition to the article. I'd do it myself, but, alas, I'm too new to know how to do that technical stuff. Thank you in advance, RememberThisAccountName (talk) 20:32, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: One of the problems with providing a picture for this article is some of what was stated in the Image removed section. Flyer22 (talk) 21:30, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: found some historical adults who fit the description. added images. cheers.Cramyourspam (talk) 21:41, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

text: What? 2601:602:A000:9FA:29E2:3E46:639E:4B3A (talk) 06:50, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

text: What? The Young Prussian (talk) 17:29, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture Please? 

message: Cramyourspam added the following inline comment:
:re refimprove box: people pictured as of 6 nov 2013 fit the term's existing description in the article; "res ipsa" --articles specifically saying "this person is a tomboy" not necessary.
I beg to disagree with the colleague. There are multiple reasons why a woman may look or behave like a man. Not all of them are described as tomboy. You yourself removed personal impersonators, right? Therefore it is not "res ipsa", it is an opinion of a wikipedian, which does not count in articles, as you surely know. 
Therefore please provide references that gallery items are in fact tomboys. 
For example I have never thought that Rosie the Riveter is a tomboy. In fact the article says something rather opposite: she is an icon of feminism. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Rosie the Riveter clearly was a female who, as this article says, "exhibits characteristics or behaviors considered typical of the gender role of a boy,[1][2] including wearing masculine clothing and engaging in games and activities that are physical in nature and are considered in many cultures to be the domain of boys."  so, yes, it is a "res ipsa" case. there is no *need* to find a source which also spells out the word tomboy describing her.  i think we'd both agree if i were to say: we sure could use some usable specimens picturing actual girls showing tomboy style. Cramyourspam (talk) 22:37, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Refs to gallery 

message: Why does tomgirl redirect here, instead of having its own page? I understand that tomgirl is used in place of tomboy occasionally, but usually (at least where I'm from) a "tomgirl" is boy that acts like a girl.--50.137.247.29 (talk) 15:15, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Citation needed! Georgia guy (talk) 15:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

text: No, what you're describing is a "Nancy" or a "Nancy-boy". "Tomgirl" is the recent invention of denizens of a few anime porn boards, who were ignorant of the historical terminology. I take it that that's where you're "from".  24.142.24.102 (talk) 02:15, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  redirect tomgirl? 

message: It's ridiculous that we can't have pictures of tomboy little girls. It's perfectly possible to decide your identity when young ... take Tara Huff. "the last time anyone remembers her wearing a dress... she was 3". Huff also managed to stop her mother making her wear a dress on the first day of kindergarten Paul Austin (talk) 07:55, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Paul Austin, no one stated that we can't have pictures of little girls who identify as tomboys. The discussion that I pointed to in the #Picture Please? section is about the image not having been clear that the girl identifies as a tomboy or even that she is a girl. If an image comes with verification that the child identifies as a tomboy, then I see no problem with us including that image in this article (unless there are too many images already). However, calling a child a tomboy simply based on how she is dressed (meaning without verification that the child identifies that way) can be considered WP:Original research. Flyer22 (talk) 10:08, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures of child tomboys 

message: c'est un super copain  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.199.76.222 (talk) 11:32, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tom Grel 

message: I tried to make a Russian version of Tomboy - but I'm not good at Wiki at all... Please, help me!
I also don't know how to write Roland or smb elese.
Thank you. Pałanieja (talk) 00:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello! Thank you so much for approaching! It's really great that you want to make a page about tomboy in Russian. I really want the current article about tomboy as universal and inclusive as possible. Please feel free to add your understanding of tomboys perhaps in Russian culture/language in the "Tomboy in other Nations" section! Thanks again.  Greenoyster333 (talk) 06:31, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Russian version

message: I think this page and talk discussion should take on more of an academic standpoint and less on the fact whether or not a representational picture be posted because of the lack of universality. "Tomboyism refers to the extended childhood period of female masculinity".Judith Halberstam  There is a societal difference between how we view the masculinity of young boys versus the masculinity of young girls.The female gender is more flexible and tolerated at a young age in comparison to the male gender. When a young girl is seen as exhibiting "tomboyish" behavior it is commonly excused as the girl wanting to experience the freedom and mobility and independence that young boys usually feel feel during childhood. It is typically more acceptable for a young girls to dress more gender nonconforming, or in commonly known boy attire and play outside, than for a young boy to dress in traditional girl attire and wanting to play with dolls. Being a tomboy is seen more a phase from society, while the gender fluidity in a boy is deemed as alerting factors of sexuality. Because "Tombyism" is thought of as as phase, once that phase has surpassed an acceptable age, that is when society is no longer as accepting as the nonconforming gesture. 
:  I find it important to acknowledge the acceptance at a young age, and parental responses to young children and the enforcing of gender conformity. Emily W. Kane utilizes her article,.Kane, Emily. W. "No Way My Boys Are Going to Be like That!" Parents Responses to Children's Gender Nonconformity. Bates College, n.d. Web.Family dynamic and policing affect the freedom of expression of a child, which can alter the overall definition of what it means to be a tomboy.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chlopoke42 (talk • contribs) 15:19, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tomboyism - Childhood Gender Nonconformity 

message: Lacks enough content to warrant individual article and lacks citations. Classicwiki (talk) (ping me please, I don't watch pages) 22:10, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I also see what I stated with this edit. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 12:52, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

text: Comment:  consensus seems clear, and per WP:RfCl any editor can close, so if there is no objection, I'm suggesting that one of us do so. Mathglot (talk) 11:21, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: A-ha, that makes sense, then. Mathglot (talk) 06:13, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Tomgirl]] 

message: CrossPlains, I reverted you because the comic book illustrations are WP:Undue weight. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:31, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comic book illustrations  

message: There should be a photo of a real life tomboy. Benjamin (talk) 20:35, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: And what options do we have? Picking out an image of a girl and calling her a tomboy will not do. I also disagree that we need a real-life image. The long-standing :File:John George Brown - The Tomboy.jpg is also less prone to edit warring. Real-life images are prone to  edit warring due to people thinking that their image is best or simply wanting their face or their child's face in a Wikipedia article. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 01:35, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo  

message: — Assignment last updated by Greenoyster333 (talk) 18:25, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Sexuality in World Civilizations I

message: Hi all! I researched about the history of tomboyism. The previous history chunk was dumping whole bunch of names + tomboy representation in media, which is not very informative. 
My source is mainly from this academic book, "Tomboys: A Literary and Cultural History" by Michelle Ann Abate. Here's a link to her book on Google Scholar: https://books.google.com/books?id=pYdrZNd7B1sC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=began%20to%20change&f=false. I haven't finished looking up the history on first + second wave feminism and thus left it blank there. If you guys have time please feel free to check the history of tomboyism in the mid 19thcentury + early 20th century and civil war or add sources if relevant. 
Please let me know your comments! 
Greenoyster333 (talk) 04:15, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edits are good, main criticism from me is that they need to have more formal tone and some grammar corrections. Other than that its a very good effort 24.44.73.34 (talk) 18:14, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Researched on History of Tomboyism + added sources 

message: @Greenoyster333 hello, again I'd like to say I like your edits. However the tone is way too casual, very essay like and imo needs more paraphrasing. And something need citations That said you seem passionate so keep up the good work . 24.44.73.34 (talk) 01:44, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you so much for the feedback! I was worried that if the writing is overly scholarly it will sound too obscure. Since you mentioned this, I will definitely improve the tones. If you have time please help with adjusting the tones please! Thanks again for the reply.  Greenoyster333 (talk) 08:58, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course :) 24.44.73.34 (talk) 17:08, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone and citing paraphrase 

message: I'll keep this short and sweet, especially since I'm a new contributer to wikipedia who, of course might be wrong, but I really don't feel like the History section feels unbiased or explanatory at all. It feels less like a recounting of factual events that actually happened as much as it feels like someone's trying to tell a story, especially with flowery adjectives like "toxic" and "cumbersome". While I was unable to get my hands on  Tomboys: A Literary and Cultural History, which is my fault as maybe it'll have a smoking gun proving everything the section says and if it does feel free to ignore this complaint, the next source, Are you a woman who votes? Thank a tomboy seems to be the source that the sections draw from more heavily, and although the article is written by an authority on the topic (although not a monolithic one), the use of the article rather than either of her books themselves don't do any favours to the storytelling-ness. Pre-19th century, and the next article, also make a lot of objective statements that I feel it doesn't have a right to make, like that the origin WAS deeply embedded in racism. I feel like the repeated uses of "healthy, fertile bodies" are the most obvious display of this subjectivity and narrative-crafting, having the express purpose of trying to stoke emotion in the reader than actually provide any facts. The section as a whole reads far more like a storybook than several other articles I've read that actually have the "This article reads more like a story than an encyclopedia entry." tag. 
The section's Americentrism doesn't even have to be stated. Are you telling me that throughout the entire history of the world from antiquity to the 20th century, safe for a single Egyptian pharoh, that the only place there was this kind of behavior was America? Are you telling me they simply didn't exist before the 21st century? Since of course you aren't telling me that (at least, hopefully you're not), I'd have to recommend the section is heavily rewritten, more dryly and definitely with different, or at least a larger variety of, sources. PorterRomanov (talk) 01:39, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues with the Connection with White Supremacy and Pre-19th century sections 

message: Good day everyone. I am making a topic with the intention of having the first pic of the tomboy girl in the article changed, since it is from a friend who'd rather not have it uploaded due to privacy concerns. Since the article is protected i was suggested to dm the page but I'm not sure if this is how it is done. Thank you very much. Lobomex (talk) 22:57, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Which image are you talking about? The photo of Saramalacara (the Argentinian musician)? Nosferattus (talk) 15:52, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tomboy picture 

message: (I could have brought this up at any time, but someone made an edit to this article with the edit summary saying "not a tomboy" that caught my attention so easily that made me feel like I needed to bring this up.) 
What girl do you know who is not a tomboy?? Taken literally, assuming this description is absolute, I'm sure every girl in post-1950 society is a tomboy to some extent. There is only ONE girl I know who absolutely isn't a tomboy. She is the protagonist of a 1937 animated movie; in the movie her evil stepmother (who wants to be the most beautiful woman) hates her beauty. Can you guess who she is?? (Please note that the purpose of this section is to see if anyone can correct the meaning of "not a tomboy" (note that this phrase is absolute; in contrast with a phrase such as "hardly a tomboy".) Georgia guy (talk) 19:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The IP correctly noted that the source does not characterize Allison as a tomboy. I don't see any point in critiquing the wording of the edit summary, which can't be changed. Schazjmd (talk) 19:07, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please fix this statement if possible 

message: Tl;dr: the quoted paragraph of tomboy in China is lack of nuance and incorrect, and have narrative that is not backed up by the reference.
Quote from the wiki page "In China, tomboys are called "假小子" (jiá xiao zi), which literally translates as "pseudo-boy". This term is largely used as a derogatory term to describe those girls with masculine characteristics. Most of the times calling someone a "假小子" is a humiliation which implies that the individual could not find a boyfriend. This largely reduces the value of women to only romance and diminishes girls' confidence in working in what is traditionally defined as the "boy's realm.""
Reference 27 is an article about teaching English instead of talking about tomboys in China, which might not be the most suitable reference to reflect how the Chinese see tomboys. However, the paragraph I quoted from the wiki page is quite a "lack of nuance". 
"This term is largely used as a derogatory term to describe those girls with masculine characteristics. "
Femboy is called "偽娘" (pseudo-girl) and originated from Japan ACG terminology; it is the counterpart term to "假小子". Both terms are relatively neutral and describe that their appearance doesn't match the gender stereotype and leans closer to the traditional opposite gender. Some terms in an older era, like 男人婆(Literal translation: man-woman, closer to "butch" without the relation with sexual orientation) or another modern slang 女漢子(Literal translation: female-tough guy/female-chad, 漢子is mostly referred to the ideal traditional masculine image of men)  might be more aligned to the description of girls with masculine characteristics.
"Most of the times calling someone a "假小子" is a humiliation which implies that the individual could not find a boyfriend."
The nature of femboy and tomboy are not as acceptable as in some other countries. They might face discrimination or be seen as less attractive, but that is reverse causality.
"This largely reduces the value of women to only romance and diminishes girls' confidence in working in what is traditionally defined as the "boy's realm.""
The nature of "假小子" is less likely related to the "boy's realm" working environment. I don't know where this conclusion comes from; it is unrelated to reference 27.
Thank you. Airynod (talk) 13:20, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of nuance of tomboy in China