Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music/Contemporary music task force/Archive 1

message: ; Description (summary):  Project Experimental art would work to improve all pages related to experimental art or artists. This could include concert and popular music, theory (music or visual), literature, dance, theater, film, visual arts, architecture, and performance art.
; Description (longer version): This is a Wikiproject focusing on everything relating to experimental (or avant-garde) in the arts. This project would cover a huge number of some of the most overlooked pages on Wikipedia. Articles like 20th century classical music which is littered with “citation needed” tags, Modernist poetry an article composed of only four sentences, List of atonal pieces which is actually a list of several modern composers, 20th century concert dance which is only a stub, and Experimental theatre which is tagged for “tone not be appropriate for Wikipedia.” The range of Project Modernist art would cover pages describing concepts, techniques or theory’s, art movements, people, works of art, and lists (of artists or works).
This project now has its own page. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Contemporary music.
; Interested Wikipedians (please add your name)
# S.dedalus 00:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I’m thinking that perhaps I should have named this Experimental art to be more specific. . . As for time period, modernism or avant-guard as a philosophy hasn’t been around all that long. Perhaps it would be sufficient simply to define it as any art which is currently considered to contain an experimental element. --S.dedalus 01:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That’s true, I think Experimental art is a better name since this is really about all mediums (I was thinking Modernism. Modernist is wrong.). My way of looking at it is that this could be a subproject of Wikipedia:WikiProject Contemporary Art. Experimental and avant-guard art is a unique form of contemporary art because it is concerned with a philosophy of rejecting old traditions and experimenting with new methods, whereas there are many contemporary artists who focus exclusively on older ideas and styles. I also think there are enough problems with these pages that two projects would not be unnecessary. However, that’s what I’m gauging with this proposal. --S.dedalus 03:41, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks for looking it over though. :-) --S.dedalus 05:24, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

text: That’s fine by me. Is this consensus then? Wikiproject Contemporary music? --S.dedalus 19:15, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Experimental art (Proposed rename “Contemporary music”) discussion from [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals]]

message: Being relatively new here I’ not an expert with such complicated templates. I would appreciate it if someone with more experience than I could set up the project template correctly. It can then be saved in template space. (Note the current template is a modification of Template:Genre.) --S.dedalus 05:25, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Template

message: Its been argued elsewhere that any project should try to have one, or if necessary more than one, specific categories in which all the articles relevant to it could/should be placed. Adding a more formal declaration of the scope of the project along those lines might not be a bad idea. John Carter 14:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opinion 

message: Maybe I've found my new home, but there are some things going on elsewhere you might find interesting.   Besides the current composers of the month at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera (well, at least I remember when Krenek was contemporary- Antandrus, do you know his Ockeghem books?),  it's looking like there will be a Divas of the avant-guard singers of the month project in December. Sparafucil 02:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Related projects

message: If it's still available in February, I'm planning on making it a class project for my Music 1960-present class, to write it.  If anyone wants to edit it, go ahead, but otherwise, it'll be done (extensively) by early March.  -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 00:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds great. Just remember the Wikipedia mantra: Document, document, document! (Oh, yes: and NOR).—Jerome Kohl (talk) 07:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I certainly envy your students who get to edit Wikipedia as part of their class! To echo Kohl, sounds great. I look forward to having a better article for this important composer. It’s a project I keep planning to do myself but never seem to have the time (and probably would never find the time). --S.dedalus (talk) 08:15, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Adams article 

message: I’ve created :Category:Post-tonal music theory. By the way, does anybody know anything about Zeuxilogy? I don’t know if this is notable or not, but the article is currently incomprehensible and tagged as requiring an expert. --S.dedalus (talk) 00:38, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Zeuxilogy doesn't exactly sound like notable to me.. Google returns just 197 hits (excluding the homepage of the theory's author, as well as Wikipedia and its mirrors), and I reckon most are simple links to the theory's "homepage". There are no hits in books.google.com or scholar.google.com, and New Grove doesn't have articles on Zeuxilogy or Andrei Pogorilowski. Jashiin (talk) 16:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have put it up for deletion. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zeuxilogy. --S.dedalus (talk) 23:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New category for music theory articles

message: I've been working on Cage-related articles for some time now (see the list on my user page) and I thought I'd mention it here if someone would like to help out. Of these articles, Sonatas and Interludes was promoted to GA status a couple of days ago and is currently undergoing FAC (see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sonatas and Interludes). I've also started a major rewriting of the article John Cage – so far, the two first sections of "Life" are completed and I'm working on the third one. Basically, I'd like to bring John Cage and the articles on Cage's major works to GA/FA status in the coming couple of months.
I'd be particularly grateful if someone could check my grammar in all those articles, as English is my second language and with this amount of writing I think its more than likely that I made mistakes. Jashiin (talk) 17:04, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, I’ll try to help. I’m also writing articles for each of the five Imaginary Landscape pieces. I’ve posted Imaginary Landscape No. 1 and I’m working on No. 4, but I’ll probably have to pay a visit to the music library to find sources for the other three. --S.dedalus (talk) 08:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, thats just great! I've got a suggestion though, if you look at Talk:John Cage, we've discussed with RobertG that perhaps describing Cage's "series" in single articles (ie. all three "Constructions" in Construction (Cage), not First Construction, Second Construction etc) might be a good idea, at least for the time being. You can look at Construction (Cage) or Music for Piano (Cage) for an example, although of course its just a suggestion. Jashiin (talk) 09:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. I answered on Talk:John Cage since it’s hard to hold a coherent conversation on two talk pages at once. Cheers, --S.dedalus (talk) 03:06, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Cage 

message: I think we need a template we can place on article talk pages. This will not only help with recruitment, it will also help us keep track of the articles within our scope. Here’s a draft I’ve done. What do you think?
Compare to similar templates like Template:WikiProject Music, Template:Composers, and Template:WikiProject Opera. --S.dedalus (talk) 03:25, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This looks great! Can we add it to talk pages now? :) Jashiin (talk) 08:52, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think so. Any further changes that are made will be automatically updated for all transclusions after all. It might be nice to have that background color of the staves mach the rest of the box. The folks over at WikiProject Composers somehow did this with their template. It might not work with our template because of all the detail, but I’ll ask and see if it’s possible. --S.dedalus (talk) 03:36, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. I went through articles related to John Cage, Iannis Xenakis and Olivier Messiaen and added the template to the talk pages. Its a start :) I had a problem inserting it into tables of the "this article is within the scope of multiple projects.. show/hide" variety; it just looked wrong, the width was wrong. I don't know if its my fault (I have no experience of this kind of tables) or something with the template. Jashiin (talk) 16:18, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I’ve asked the people over at WikiProject Templates to look over the design. They may be able to help work out any problems. The template worked fine in the nested format of Talk:Olivier Messiaen though right? It currently looks fine to me. Apparently there are also some bots that could help us tag large numbers of articles; could be worth looking into. --S.dedalus (talk) 21:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Project template

message: I think we need a colored stat box like this one. This gives a total number of tagged articles, and shows which are rated with which rating. How do we go about getting one? Badagnani (talk) 22:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that’s the assessment I was talking about above. We’ll need to modify the talk page template slightly to do that. I’m reading through  Getting to work#Assessment and also WikiProject Council/Assessment FAQ  which describe how to set this up. However I’m not very experienced with templates. Has anybody else done this before? We currently have about 2500 articles tagged. As the Wikiproject Guide points out, if we’re going to start assessing articles it’s essential that a large number of editors commit to a massive assessing job at the beginning. . . --S.dedalus (talk) 23:23, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I think we should also consider rating articles by importance of topic. --S.dedalus (talk) 23:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colored stat box--can we get one? 

message: Note that the original project proposal discussion has now been archived as /Archive 1. 
Thank you User:Warlordjohncarter!  --S.dedalus (talk) 23:09, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive 1 and new template features