Talk:Jim Morrison/Archive 1

message: See the discussion below under the heading "Morrison's Wife at Common Law."  Briefly:  The California probate court found that Morrison and Courson contracted a common law marriage under Colorado law.  That means the he *was* married - if not as a fact in practice, at least as a fact in law.  It is irrelevant that Morrison and Courson did not perform the formalities to contract a statutory marriage.  The whole point of common law marriage is that it is a legally binding marriage which is NOT formally contracted by any one act, but by a coincidence of numerous acts (such as Morrison referring to Courson's parents as his in-laws, which counts as the two of them holding themselves out to the public as husband and wife).
Today, common law marriages can only be contracted in Scotland, the District of Columbia, and eleven U.S. States -- one of which is Colorado.  California has not permitted marriages to be contracted as at common law since 1896, but the California Family Code explicitly provides that all marriages are valid in the state if they are validly contracted according to the law of the place of celebration.  All U.S. states are the same on that point.  As long as you were legally married according to the laws of the place where you got married, your marriage is legally valid in any U.S. state -- and that includes common law marriages.
:There has been some discussion of Morrison's marital status and apparently some disagreement, as well.  The last person changed the intro to indicate that Morrison had a "spouse."  I think it's misleading to leave it at that because Morrison never formally got married.  His relationship was recognized as being a common-law marriage by the California probate courts two years after his death, based on a number of factors, including his actions while in Colorado with Courson.  I've added the phrase "common-law" to the intro and hope it resolves some people's concerns about accuracy.
24.7.5.47  08 March 2006
::Sheesh, some people sure get bent out of shape at the mention of Pamela Courson and the California probate court's recognition of her status as his common-law wife.  Although some info about Courson has been in the intro paragraph for quite some time, it is probably better placed in the section dealing with Morrison's personal life.  I have added a mention of Morrison's untimely death to the intro in its place.  I doubt that this will please some fanatics but it seems to be a reasonable enough arrangement.  Ande B. 10:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marital Miscellaneous 

message: ... would be another contender for bacchanalia, but I've never been so I'll leave it to someone who can write about it with more confidence.  Koyaanis Qatsi 18:54 Jul 22, 2002 (PDT):After months of thought, replaced bacchanalia with vices, which had to be extended to cover the Morrison case.  
:::I've written a 20-printed-pages paper about Jim Morrison for school last year and I'd like to submit extracts from it to wikipedia. I think Jim would be the first person ever to be explained together with his work. A major part of my paper was about the main-themes of his poems and songs. What do you think of that? There's also a German translation planned. see  for the paper. -- TomK32 17:20 
 Concerning the edit of (18:43 5 June 2003);
* "..reportedly enraged his father, ending all communication..."  that is heresay, not the facts. Why take the part out about his mother? Surely she was an influence on Morrison too?
* It's known that Morrison began consuming large amount drugs well before the Doors group formed.
* "...basically being blacklisted.." Some concert cancellations do not equal blacklisting.
It is not relevant that some of Jim Morrison's So called fans, deface the French cemetary gravestones.  Why give them notice? (unsigned)
:because you cannot visit Pere LaChaise without noting his post-death cult there. French girls in halter-tops swarm all over the cemetery, querulously asking "Ou est Jeem?".  As you near his gravestone the painted graffiti grows heavier, and on the nearest mausoleums these transfigure into signposts and arrows all pointing the way for his admirers. At all times of day, at least 10 young people are clustered around the tombstone, generally strumming their guitars and singing old Doors hits. It's an actual phenomenon, one which no one who has actually been to Pere Lachaise can miss, and deserves to be mentioned. And it's interesting. -- Someone else 17:46 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
[Again, I stand by the idea that vandals deserve no place in Morriosn's bio page.    It had nothing to do with his life.  Misguided people doing destructive things to people's gravestones possibly should have their own listing under; Morrison Gravestone Phenomenon.  I admit the defacing of property is unusual, but not significant at all to Morrison's life.]
 *.."in the years folowing his death, fans allegedly spotted Morrison.." got to go.  Tabloid fotter. 
Oliver Stone and his movie, The Doors, should not get a first or last mention in a Jim Morrison article. Ray Manzarek's remarks concerning that film should be revisited.
*To me the idea of wikipedia is to collabratively create a fair, honest, fact filled article on a person, place, or thing.  This version is not factual, full of POV, and very incomplete.  The article talks about unsubstantiated ideas, blatantly incorrect statements, and unimportant sidelines i.e. vandals in the cemetary. What does that have to do with the man, the character, the music of Jim Morrison?
I think a fair, factual version is the one I added to. (9:45 6 Jun 2003)  Thanks, Xio
I think this still reads like too much of a PR release.  The bit on the potential assassination gave me a good chuckle, thanks.  Also, I can't understand why you keep removing the bits on Pamela Courson.  It was important to Morrison, even if it wasn't important to you.  Koyaanis Qatsi 17:32 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I agree that much of this is unworthy of an encyclopedia, though quite funny (did Morrison fake his own death or was he killed by the government?!). The site that purports to show JM still alive is crazy enough to have something to do with him, but has no place on this page Brentford 23:59, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Miscellaneous 

message: Anyone in paris willing to go take a picture and GFDL it for us? Hipocrite - «Talk» 20:42, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of Morrison's grave, here's an interesting piece of information that maybe should go in the article.  I've read that Père Lachaise is looking to get rid of Morrison's remains.  They say that they can't cope with the fan attention (and vandalism) that his grave attracts.  Basically, they would ship Morrison's remains to anywhere in the world, to anyone that would simply pay for the transference. How about that??  Regards, Redux 01:07, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That'd be a suitable addition if you can find a decent source for it. I've heard the same thing. Cheers, -Willmcw 05:56, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I read this on the respected Brazilian magazine VEJA.  They have all of their contents online at their website going back as far as 1997.  I could probably find the piece (it was either about Morrison himself or the French graveyard — most likely the latter, if I recall correctly), but no one here would be able to access it, since the contents of their archive are exclusive to subscribers (which I am), and plus it'd be in Portuguese.  But it is there, they ran the story and mentioned specifically the thing about Lachaise's administration being eager to get Morrison out of there.  I could post the link to the story here, just to vouch for its existence, if it would be preferred (but again, no one would be able to open it).  Regards, Redux 06:48, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grave Picture 

message: There are enough scurrilious rumors going around about Jim Morrison that we don't need to include this rumor alongside two women who DID play an important part in Jim's life.
:I agree. Material as detailed as this needs a solid source, but none has been provided. Let's take it out until the references, if any, can be checked. -Will Beback 19:43, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed that we are supposed to be NPOV, but I'm not sure what is non-NPOV about that phrase. However, if that is objectionable, the closest appropriate terminology that is factually accurate is "live-in girlfriend". The problems with the "common-law wife" phrase have been pointed out by others above - there is a clear, objective meaning to that phrase, and it doesn't apply. Morrison was never married, common-law or otherwise. Merenta 20:07, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The new insertion about a supposed girlfriend, Martha Clark 

message: What's this about Jim doing the "first video"?  The Beatles music videos in Hard Days Night pre-date in my opinion.  MA
::While "Hard Days Night" is a feature film rather than a video, there were music videos before "The Unknown Soldier". The earliest one I can document is Bob Dylan's video for Subterranean Homesick Blues, filmed May 8, 1965. I have corrected this article. Merenta 17:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Unknown Soldier : first video ? 

message: There is an incomplete sentence under the Death section of the main article and it seems to be a false statement as well.  It is quoted as: "supposedly he is still alive living in the french underground" for easier finding. ( by 210.210.33.231.)
Thought I'd leave the editing to someone else as I am not authorized to do so. 70.37.74.226 06:13, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death edited by some anonymous user, please remove. 

message: I just wanted to let everyone know that Jim's mother Clara Clarke Morrison passed away December 29, 2005 at the age of eighty-six. You can find this tribute to her life at the Doors official website here. --Pinko1977 22:29, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mother's Recent Passing 

message: I have a question about the use of German spelling for the word "Mahogany."  Since the rest of the title has been translated into English, why does this one word appear in its German form?  If you do a web search, the "mahogany" spelling is used consistently on both commercial and university sites that use the English language.  "Mahagonny" is used in the original title and on German language sites.  Does the Wikipedia have a convention regarding this spelling?  It shows up in the same manner on the link to the article about the operetta.
Thanks.  Ande. (Who doesn't do much of this editing stuff.)
:It's hard to know how to translate nouns that have similar spellings. However this discussion would be best handled at the article itself, Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny. Thanks for catching the underlying error, the confusion w/ "3 Penny Opera".  Cheers, -Will Beback 07:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling of the Brecht / Weil operetta 

message: Deleting a balanced discussion of a text you dismiss as conspiracy theory and preposterous is simply POV by selective editing.  It's a fact that some deaths have been faked successfully before, it's more than wishful thinking by fans, it's relevant to the subject, it was written with balance, and it deserves fair mention.      69.145.82.2 08:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, first we have fils du soleil pulling a relevant mention of the hoaxed-death angle, which my POV complaint speaks to, then we have 24.7.5.47 pulling it yesterday sans explication, and since neither of them seems to grasp wikipedia well enough to discuss matters, it seems we're in for a revert war followed by an admin giving them a lecture they'll probably ignore till he/she locks them up for a bit :-/ 69.145.82.2 07:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faked death & postmortem rumors 

message: Someone has rather strong opinions about Morrison and even stronger opinions about Morrison's fans.  Unfortunately, nearly all of the edits made by the recent poster rather froth with contempt and, perhaps not surprisingly, make as many errors as the poster has attempted to "correct."  I reverted the article to an earlier one by Silentium who seems to be making careful edits.  Perhaps the other poster could post his / her remarks on the discussion page so whatever valid concerns he / she raises could be addressed in a non-inflamatory manner.  Ande B. 21:25, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's avoid editorializing on the article page 

message: I changed the wording slightly in the section dealing with the transcription on Morrison's tomb.  In Roman characters, it reads: KATA TON DAIMONA EAYTOY. Only the Greek delta is changed to the letter "D."  Previously, the description read that this was a "transliteration," which was inaccurate and may have induced someone to attempt to render the pronunciation into English.  My background with ancient Greek is quite rusty and focused on the Aeolic dialect, I don't know what dialect was chosen for the inscription.  Most of the time, the Greek character upsilon is transcribed as a capital "Y" although it is generally pronounced as "u."  I don't know which dialect would render the upsilon as "u" in one instance but as "v" in another' although the "V" may have been intended as the Greek letter "nu."  I'm not familiar with that convention and would appreciate it if the person who rendered that transliteration could point me in the proper direction.  I believe it is more useful for the reader to see the letters as transcribed rather than an attempt at an English pronunciation.  Thanks for any insight. Ande B. 01:45, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inscription on tomb 

message: Does anybody know the whereabouts of Morrison's thesis film?
ABresnahan 16:35, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film 

message: I corrected the names of Morrison's grandparents and removed a weird line inserted by the same spammer. Ande B 06:03, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grandparents 

message: Shouldn't there be a section, or at least a sentence in one of the sections, that lists Morrison's nicknames? It seems strange that there isn't one already...but if there was one, why delete it?--Reed9277 22:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aliases/Nicknames 

message: Jim Morrison is a major cultural and historical figure, and we need a photo of him at the beginning of the article. Can someone suggest a good source for fair use images of Jim?--Pinko1977 20:37, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need opening photo pronto 

message: Both pictures of Jim Morrison are the same. Could there be a different picture for the beginning of the article? Rocketqueen 15:36, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Both pictures are the same 

message: I heard he had some Native American in him, anyone know if this is true or not?--Stripedtiger 06:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Native American 

message: I was just recently at the Rock and The Roll Hall of Fame maybe about two weeks or more so ago as of this date here in the talk section. And I had taken particular interest to the small exhibit that was focused mainly on Jim Morrisson. I did my best to pay careful and close attention to the chronology time line of the letters and photos through all of 1965 and well into 1971 to and from Jim Morrisson before the time of when he and the Doors had gotten there start. Now in and around what was maybe 1965 for when Jim did not seem to have such long hair as he is so well known today from so many photos that are circulated all over the world leading up to the time for when he died in Paris in what I think was possibly either 1970 or 1971. I was kind of somewhat amazed from that exhibit. That before the time of when the Doors had got there start and in the letters and the photos with his family. He had seemed to me quite bright and educated and infact lucid and clear not just in the ways of poetry and of language and cinema and of film but also in many other ways as well. And so then maybe 4 or 5 years later he is found dead inside of some bath tub somewhere there in Paris. It seemed a shame even though I never really let him nor knew him as others did. I guess that is what excess drinking and drugs will do in a person. Before the formation of the Doors, he had seemed quite sharply intelligent and balanced and rational and educated and quite a unique and a interesting person back in 1965 to know. www.geocities.com/berniethomas68 06:57, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland Ohio / Jim Morrison 

message: Why did Ed Sullivan want the lyrics changed?  There is nothing wrong with "girl we couldn't get much higher".  I don't see any drug references in that line.  Being or getting high can have so many different meanings.  Like in Tal Bachman's - She's so High, I don't think he's talking someone high on drugs.  Its very strange that anyone would find this line offensive.Davez621 08:05, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ed Sullivan lyrics 

message: I think there should be a little more mention of the albums, Waiting For The Sun, and especially The Soft Parade (which has no mention at all). As the latter is heavy with orchestrated music, and an example of the Doors' courage in testing new ground, it is worthy of mention. Especially in context of how the staple popular songs from earlier albums were becoming 'boring' for Jim. As for Waiting For the Sun, the mention could focus around how originally, Jim was wanting one side to be an entire recording of Celebration of The Lizard, but was later decided against. So, I'll leave this up to any regular contributors to discuss and/or implement in the article. G.g. 19:06, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Soft Parade 

message: You forgot the Simpson's episode where Crusty was playing a montage of past shows with him screaming into the microphone while lying on the stage just like you know who.
200.165.103.213 20:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crusty 

message: I think the section about the legacy of Morrison and the Doors contains some editorializing that should be deleted.  Specifically, I refer to the passage:
They let us "break on through to the other side", however briefly. They did indeed open the "doors of perception", doors that can never be shut again. And that is probably the true legacy of Jim Morrison and The Doors.
I appreciate and understand the author's feelings, but this is not really suitable for a Wikipedia entry.
Any comments?
--Skb8721 20:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  This article has an ongoing problem with opinion and POV being inserted.  Contributors need to remember that this is an encyclopedia, not a music review or personal essay. --Kathryn NicDhàna 20:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editorializing 

message: I'd love to include this John Densmore quote in here somewhere.  The artistic influences or death sections are the most obvious candidates, but those are pretty well-written right now, and right off hand I can't see anyplace it wouldn't disrupt the flow. Thoughts?  Also, if someone has the page number of the quote (from Riders on the Storm by Densmore) it would be good to be able to cite that.  --Kathryn NicDhàna 00:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have the Densmore book at hand but, IIRC, he was referring to Jim, like many other young people, being adversely affected by Nietzsche's philosophies, and that those ideas led him to act in a self-destructive manner.  So, imho, the former, but the latter does add another level of possible interpretation :-) Hence, I added it to the article a while back. --Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 19:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What value does that quote give to the article? Maybe it should be on Wikiquote or in Densmore's article. It really seems out of place in the middle of that paragraph. I will not delete, though, until more people state their opinions.(Antonio.sierra 01:30, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[Friedrich] Nietzsche killed Jim Morrison..." 

message: Hope I'm doing this correctly.
Just saw this in Morrison article.
 
According to Morrison, one of the most important events of his life occurred in 1949 during a family trip in New Mexico. He described the event as follows:[citation needed]
The accident is being researched for a documentary. So far research shows it happened in 1947, not 1949, while the Admiral was stationed in New Mexico. Jim said it was when he was around four years old, maybe just turned five, before they moved to Los Altos, California. I'll check data, since you need a citation and get back soon.Salliort 23:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  JIM MORRISON ACCIDENT - YEAR 

message: I would like to add a correction to:
After a lengthy break, the group reconvened in November 1970 to record what proved to be their last LP with Morrison, L.A. Woman. 
Actually the group had reconvened for rehearsals for the album by the week of October 12, 1970. I interviewed Jim for Circus Magazine on October 13, 1970. They had a meeting that day after the interview and I watched one of the rehearsals for L.A. Woman on October 15, 1970. - Documented in Lost Interview Tapes: Number Two.Salliort 23:22, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  LA WOMAN ALBUM REHEARSAL DATE  CORRECTION 

message: Jim studied at the College of Fine Arts, UCLA. The College of Fine Arts was established in 1960, with degrees available in art, dance, music, and theater arts. 
Although Jim studied film courses at the College of Fine Arts, he got his degree in Theater Arts.
UCLA did not have a film school until 1989 when it became the School of Theater, Film and Television which replaced the College of Fine Arts. 
See UCLA History Project on UCLA website. Salliort 16:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Theatre Arts department was UCLA's film school. Everybody called it "film school". While we should be technically accurate, we should make it clear he was attending film school. The new language is too indirect. -Will Beback · † · 19:26, 21 November 2006  (UTC)
Actually no, it wasn't.
In 1963-64-65 the Theater Arts Department was part of the College of Fine Arts. The Theater Arts Department was not ever listed as UCLA's film school. After basic courses in theater, you could study courses in Theater or Film. The film courses at UCLA were not as extensive as what they are now. They were not comparable to the courses taught at USC's film school at that time. The curriculums were different in scope and importance.
People who went to UCLA or planned to go to UCLA said they were studying film or cinematography, but there was no film school there. Therefore, Jim could not attend film school. 
 
From what I remember, calling it the film school was something that they called it after they left UCLA, not while they were studying film there. 
In 1963-64 I was planning to transfer from Santa Monica City College to the College of Fine Arts where I was going to study theater as opposed to studying film or cinematography. I had friends there studying cinematography and theater classes.Salliort 22:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I just know that it was common usage to refer to UCLA's "film school" long before 1989. I think we should be correct but not punctilious. If Morrison said he went to film school then we should also incorporate that usage. -Will Beback · † · 05:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

text: "Film school" is the common usage, even among those at UCLA.. I've edited the text to include both designations. -Will Beback · † · 22:46, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  JIM FILM SCHOOL: UCLA DID NOT HAVE ONE THEN 

message: Since this paragraph is problematic as part of an encyclopedia, I deleted it. However, since it is such a profound and beautifully worded paragraph, I moved it here so it could be preserved.
--Andy Jones
"If my poetry aims to achieve anything, it's to deliver people from the limited ways in which they see and feel", Jim once said. And that is exactly what he and The Doors achieved. With their hauntingly beautiful music that stays with you long after "the music's over", they take us to uncharted territories. They let us "break on through to the other side", however briefly. They did indeed open the "doors of perception", doors that can never be shut again. And that is probably the true legacy of Jim Morrison and The Doors. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.210.68.227 (talk) 12:10, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That material certainly does not belong. It is not written in an encyclopedic tone and makes POV value judgments without attribution. -Will Beback · † · 22:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. It does not belong in the article.  ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 23:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also agreed. The paragraph clearly doesn't fit with the rest of the article. Wikipedia isn't the proper venue for a tribute of this type, it needs to be removed or edited so that it conforms to wikipedia's conventions. 211.31.161.9 13:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Deleted Paragraph (But added, due to its beauty, to the discussion section) 

message: Here is the paragraph in question, for future reference (keeping it, removing it, or putting it back in). - Fils du Soleil 19:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jim Morrison & The Doors' Legacy 

message: I doubt that the song Wild Child is about Arthur Rimbaud as the subject of the song is ostensibly a young woman - the subject matter may refer to Rimbaud, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it was about Rimbaud. Tzittnan 22:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wild Child 

message: That's all... please respect the man and don't destroy this page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sholt8 (talk • contribs) 04:44, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please don't replace his entire life story with, "he is a god." 

message: The "alleged alcohol-fueled encounter with Janis Joplin that left Joplin in tears." is describes differently at http://www.janisjoplin.net/friends/?id=3. The article there is allegedly taken from "Break On Through: The Life and Death of Jim Morrison" and left Jim "crushed" because she rejected him due to his violent behavior when drunk. Of course, that doesn't rule out  she was left in tears, too. 87.123.52.37 09:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Encounter with Janis Joplin 

message: These sentences were in the opening of the article :
*(...) and is considered to be one of the most charismatic frontmen in the history of rock music.
*Morrison's death at the age of 27 in Paris stunned his fans; the circumstances of his death and secret burial have been the subject of endless rumours and play a significant part in the mystique that continues to surround him.
A user (Tecmobowl) removed them abruptly, citing respectively "npov" and "made it encyclopedic". He changed the second one to : "The circumstances of his death and burial are not fully known".
I think this raises an important question about Wikipedia : does "being encyclopedic" mean sounding like a police report ? It is policy that edits be NPOV and verifiable, and rightfully so ; but it doesn't mean that they can't also be pleasant and stimulating to read whenever possible - in particular when the subject is a music icon.
I did not write these sentences - and I don't know who did, although it could be found by sifting through the history of the article. But they had been in the opening of the article for a very, very long time. So I put them back in, considering that they are well-written and set the backdrop about Jim Morrison pretty well. This is obviously open to discussion.
More generally, please consider that being true to Wikipedia's spirit and policies doesn't necessarily mean acting like Torquemada. Thanks. - Fils du Soleil 23:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The same user (Tecmobowl) also arbitrarily removed entire chunks of the section "Early years" () on the same ground that he deemed it "unencyclopedic". This section contained much valuable information, in particular about his family and early years, or important developments about the "dead indians" episode by which Morrison claimed to have been strongly influenced. Again, it is far from being "encyclopedic" to arbitrarily remove big chunks of the article just because you deem them, by your own standards, "unencyclopedic". This could even be seen as a form of "soft vandalism". Please first discuss here on this talk page any other changes of this nature that you intend to make in the future. Thanks. - Fils du Soleil 15:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I did not arbitrarily remove anything.  While you may wish that articles here have a bit more color, the goal of wiki is to serve as an encyclopedia.  This is not a place for literary creativity.  If you have a problem with the style, then rewrite it.  However, many of the statements and claims in this article are made without reference.  This needs to be fixed.  If you want to expand on the section I have edited, please do so.  But use encyclopedic information that is based on relevant and reliable sources.  // Tecmobowl 02:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

text: *Tecmo Banned Indefinitely.  FYI--Tecmo has been banned indefinitely for repeated violations of Wiki policy.--Epeefleche 01:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please stop "editing with an ax" ! 

message: Does anyone have more information about what Jim did in his last four months in Paris? I plan on reading the books, but just curious. 66.150.206.225 21:07, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Life in Paris 

message: From the article: "Morrison's grave is amongst the most popular graves in the cemetery and has become one of the most popular tourist destinations in Paris" Yeah right. In a city where you can choose to visit the Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Versailles or the Notre Dame among many other places. Does someone really believe that many people will visit Jim Morrisons grave over those places(+50 more) i mentioned?
:Er, yes. They do. And the gravesite is featured in the definitive guide, Cimetières et sépultures de Paris.  69.3.210.139 05:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grave popularity 

message: Someone may want to get a 3RR against Referento.--Epeefleche 16:12, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Blocked 72 hrs for spamming.  The 3RR was a factor, as well. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 16:46, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  3RR 

message: I'd hardly call it a tribute. If John Morrison is indeed a reproduction of Jim Morrison, it's hardly a flattering one.Quadrophenic youth 03:38, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think it's OR. I say we ditch it. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 15:33, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a number of sources that at least speculate on the subject. I think it's okay to say that there is speculation that has not been confirmed. I'm just not sure "tribute" is the right word. Not only does he play the "bad guy", he also uses Jim Morrison's trademark slightly mystical way of speech to make himself seem pretentious.Quadrophenic youth 04:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only that, but he has called his finishing manouvre the "Moonlight Drive". Mean anything? Lemon Demon (talk) 18:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Hennigan "Tribute" 

message: I just happened to be reading Jim Morrison and I see that the famous indecent exposure incident has been rendered incomprehensible. I know that there are folks who say it didn't happen and I also know people who were at the concert and say it did. It certainly was a huge deal at the time so why isn't it discussed here? Can we not mention penis and masturbation in Wikipedia? Or is this gap part of the bickering over style that seems to be afflicting this entry? (For what it is worth, I vote for interesting style over Jack Webb every time.) Parsnip13 15:32, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sparking a riot?? 

message: Only in the current state of the U.S. and (Britain?) would a page about Jim Morrison be constructed wherein "Estate Controversy" came before "Artistic Roots". I am not even a Jim Morrison or Doors fan but when I compare the French version  to this one, with its careful emphasis on the person as an artist and poet and on his artistic and intellectual influences, I realize more and more that I was born on the wrong continent (North America / U.S.). Saudade7 09:23, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just Sad 

message: :Image:Jim Morrison photo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Jim Morrison photo.jpg 

message: I added a "weasel" tag to warn people about this.Boab 05:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weasel words 

message: QUOTE: "While there are many conspiracy theories concerning Morrison's death, the official version is widely accepted as the most likely."
*"He died on July 3, 1971, at age 27, and, in one account of his death, was found in the rue Beautreillis apartment bathtub by Courson."   
*"no autopsy was performed"   
*"Courson had given numerous contradictory versions of Morrison's death" 
What is "the official version"? Death2 07:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death 

message: It needs more citation, and a bit of cleanup, but I think it could get GA at some point at this rate.--h i s   s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 16:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good work done on sourcing this 

message: in one place it says he dropped out of ucla an in another it says he graduated  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.136.244 (talk) 00:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  umm 

message: "He was likely the model for other highly charismatic rock front men of the same era, including Roger Daltrey and Robert Plant." 
I dispute that sentence. The Who, and hence Roger Daltrey, were famous before The Doors even formed. He damn sure didn't model himself after Jim Morrison. If anything, Morrison copied off Daltrey (although, more off of Jagger, but still...). As for Plant, I can't speak to it, but I would wager that he never saw The Doors or Morrison perform until they were on the same bill as Zeppelin, by which point he already had his persona down. Certainly, there are those who modeled themselves after Morrison; Plant and Daltrey aren't among them. -R 208.101.170.64 (talk) 10:14, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plant and Daltrey 

message: should artwork be used as the main picture?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.147.234 (talk) 04:56, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is currently no photo with proper licensing or source information available on Commons. --Cyfal (talk) 17:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  main pic 

message: I don't feel there is enough about The Doors in this article.  He is primarily known as their lead singer, yet the band is barely mentioned.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.84.155.122 (talk) 22:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Doors 

message: OK, I've cut a lot of the excess verbiage and redundancies that were added to the Death section. Our role here is not to cover every version of every theory and what has been opined by everyone about each theory. The major theories are discussed and sourced, so readers can go to those sources for further information. We simply cannot repeat all of that stuff here and be encyclopedic, and the way it was written, "It is said that he said that she believed etc." was not encyclopedic nor particularly readable.
If you really think more of that needs to be added back in (and personally, I think the section could be tightened up even more), discuss it here first. Thanks. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 03:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death Rattles 

message: Why is there no mention of Jim getting arrested for indecent exposure in New Haven, ct? See New Haven (under Popular Culture) for more info  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smooth0707 (talk • contribs) 19:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indecent Exposure 

message: Why does the article omit the allegation in the Patricia Butler book that Jim Morrison, while a Florida student, had a gay relationship with an older man who ran a poetry coffeehouse in Pinellas Park?  This comes from a published source. I plan to add a chapter about it.  I am citing sources on the two men's relationship, which was about a lot more than sex.  The coffeehouse owner, Thomas Reese, told author Patricia Butler how he had coached Morrison to recite his poetry theatrically. Reese did not seek publicity about this, spending the 1980s and 1990s helping young poets, painters and musicians who needed the patronage.  But he did tell all about Morrison to Ms. Butler when she approached him in the 1990s.  
Because the 18-year-old Morrison evidently started honing his theatrical skills in Reese's coffeehouse, I'm giving the new chapter the ambiguous title "Relationship with Thomas Bruce Reese in 1961-1962."  I'm omitting the words "gay" and "homosexual" from the chapter title because several people confirm that Reese tutored Morrison in theater, but only Reese knew for sure about their sexual behavior.  Morrison evidently never mentioned Reese to anyone in California. Reese is the only person who has said for publication that Morrison experimented with gayness. Nyannrunning (talk) 19:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Your addition is very well written and no doubt made in good faith. However, this appears to be a fringe theory at best. I've never heard that allegation made, nor have I heard of Patricia Butler (nor has Wikipedia, for that matter). It is very important that we not give this sort of thing undue weight, especially when the allegation is so controversial and unsupported (don't get me wrong, you did well with sourcing, but again, this seems a very fringe theory). Considering the unfounded and inflammatory nature of the allegation, this deserves perhaps a passing mention, but certainly not the four paragraphs it currently has. Some might even object to a passing mention; after all, we're dealing with a claim by a non-notable person in a non-notable book written by a non-notable author and published by a non-notable publishing house (I apologize if I'm mistaken in any of that; however, that does seem to be the case). I wouldn't object to a few sentences mentioning the allegation, but it just doesn't warrant this kind of coverage. faithless (speak) 03:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Update: A Google search suggests that this woman and her book are quite controversial to say the least. For instance, this is the first G-hit. I'm no longer sure her writing deserves any mention in an encyclopedia, unless corroborating can be found. Cheers, faithless (speak) 03:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New chapter about Morrison's relationship with Thomas Reese 

message: It seems like it would be logical for there to be a section on his involvment in the dorrs between his early life and the section on his solo work.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.113.98.113 (talk) 07:46, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The section was evidently removed by a vandal some months back. I've found it and reinserted it. Thanks for pointing that out! faithless (speak) 08:09, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is there no section on his involvement in the Doors? 

message: Does anyone know if perhaps Jim and Van are distantly related? Jim is of Ulster-Irish ancestry and there is the strong physical resemblance between the two men.jeanne (talk) 15:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really think so, at least not in any very closely related way. If that were the case, it would be something that would have been bandied about over the years. If there is a familial connection, it would be quite far removed. I don't personally think they were that similar in looks. Morrison is a fairly common surname, and it has been in the United States for over 300 years. Wildhartlivie (talk) 17:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Van Morrison 

message: I've always read and heard that Jim was of Irish descent but, I read on another site saying his father was Scottish and and his mother was English. From what I have previously read, I thought Jim's father was Irish and his mother was Scottish or English. Does anyone know for sure if he was of Irish ancestry? 76.119.245.141 (talk) 16:28, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish Ancestry 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "climate" :
** "http://www.huddersfield1.co.uk/poetry/morrisonpoetry.htm, huddersfield, 
** "See e.g., Morrison poem backs climate plea", BBC News, January 31, 2007.
DumZiBoT (talk) 12:40, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: There's a mistake in the "Doors" section of this article at the beginning. The article makes it sound like Joel Brodsky took the famous "Young Lion" photographs in 1965 before The Doors formed. They were actually taken at the end of a Doors photo session in either 66 or 67...either way, the article makes it sound like Joel Brodsky approched Jim when he was a bohemian on Venice beach...that's not true.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.93.221 (talk) 19:53, August 27, 2007 (UTC) 
::I agree with the above writer, and, moreover, the way the passage is currently worded, the reference to Brodsky's photo session seems like a non sequitur.  --Skb8721 (talk) 07:01, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joel Brodsky 

message: One passage currently reads:
Morrison recorded his own poetry in a mausoleum in a professional sound studio on two separate occasions.
The phrase "in a mausoleum" is confusing, in my opinion:  Is this supposed to read "in a mausoleum _and_ in a professional sound studio" . . . or was there literally a mausoleum in the sound studio???
--Skb8721 (talk) 06:57, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear Reference 

message: Morrison and fellow UCLA student Ray Manzarek were the first two members of The Doors. Shortly thereafter, drummer John Densmore and guitarist Robby Krieger joined.
Actually this was wrong. Ray was playing in his brothers' band called "Rick & The Ravens". Morrison joined this band. Some time after that, Densmore also joined the band. Then they have recorded a demo in the 1965 featuring a couple of Morrison's songs. The demo didn't get any attention and Manzarek's brothers left. After that they changed the name to the Doors, and soon after that Krieger joined. So "The Doors" were from a begining formed of all 4 of them. Rick & The Ravens weren't. 
Btw, "were the first two members of the Doors" by itself sounds terrible. You want to say that "The Doors" were duo in the beginning?
Take look at this page for more info: Rick And The Ravens.
Astroman --89.216.158.165 (talk) 11:11, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  First two members? 

message: STOP CHANGING THE OPENING STATEMENT. Morrison wasn't only known for "baritone" vocals. Read the biography that is referenced for that statement. In this bio and countless others (basically any book or review) you will find that Morrison was erratic, an alcoholic and amongst many other things an eloquent speaker. The new dawn brings the fresh sorrows of man, bleached, weathered and unreturned. (talk) 08:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit War 

message: Is it true that, for a short period of time, Jim Morrison took classes at Valley High School in Albuquerque,  New Mexico? WereWolf (talk) 15:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Valley High School? 

message: Why do you keep deleting informsation I have addes on the epitaph on Morrison's grave? There is a LOT of misinformation out there, lots of nonsense about "demons" and "geniuses"...
Here is what I have written (which has been deleted several times):
[removed for being a suspected copyright violation] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Constcon (talk • contribs) 15:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Aside from looking like a copyright violation, it is unsourced, original research and of questionable notability. faithless (speak) 15:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Epitaph 

message: In "The Jim Morrison Scrap Book" there are many examples of Morrison's visual art, including both abstract and more traditional forms. Much of which is described earlyer on in the book, as it also states that while he was young he was know for being a gifted artist who would turn 'things he found' into art. Page 15 states he was interested in fine arts all his life. Page 25 has a really nice pull out with some examples of his work. There are a few others too. If anyone out there is interested I'll be willing to help (just message me) but I don't really have the litterary ability to write it in a 'wikipedian' style myself.
Also the line in the article;
"He also consumed 8 buttons of peyote and tripped for a week and wrote about seeing the "God of Peyote"."
at the end of the Artistic Roots section seems dubious. Obviously the song had some sort of connection to Peyote but eating 8 buttons, no matter how large, will not make you 'trip for a week'. Can this just be changed to;
"He also consumed a large dose of peyote and wrote about seeing the "God of Peyote"."
Or something to that effect. Unless someone can source the origonal statment as being true. The effect of mescaline, even in large doses subsides after 12 hours or less. Also, 8 buttons is not considerd amazingly high, with some Native Americans know to eat over 100. See (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rYdgHx8yrw) for a reference on that. 
EDIT: Since no one has replied to the second part I'm going to change it.
- Elcaballooscuro (talk) 12:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's likely no one responded because new posts should be started at the bottom of the page. I removed the statement. It's unsourced and from the wording, was likely the result of vandalism. Wildhartlivie (talk) 12:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Artistic Roots 

message: The  Morrison biographers Riordan & Prochnicky claimed that Jim Morrison was the originator of Stage diving around 1966. That part of Morrison's stage persona could be added to the article. I was not able to find the precise page in their voluminous Morrison bio, though (James Riordan, Jerry Prochnicky: Break on Through. The Life and Death of Jim Morrison. William Morrow, New York 1991. ). Riordan/Prochnicky mention Morrison falling into the audience casually on pages 100, 139, 250-251. There was another passage in their book, though, where they actually claim that Morrison did this as the first or one of the first stage performers (before Morrison adept Iggy Pop did so). Does anyone knows where precisely Riordan/Prochnicky said so? --Diggindeeper (talk) 10:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stage diving 

message: Why cant it be added, whats the consensus? Portillo (talk) 01:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding of it is because it is a contrived pop trivia sort of reference that has no real relevance to the career and notability of Jim Morrison, and I'd have to agree. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:45, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What about a link to it in the see also section, like in the Robert Johnson article? Portillo (talk) 22:49, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to me, at least, that putting it in a See also section singles it out even more. Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:02, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  27 Club 

message: Jim thought of himself as a poet and not really a rock star. We should put more emphasis on his poetic ability and the greatness of his lyrics than so much his rock star image. That's how he probably would have liked it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjosephs (talk • contribs) 21:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poetic 

message: According to the article it states Morrison was of English descent. The reference given for this just mentions he was of Irish and Scottish decent. I may have missed it and it might say he was of English roots but I'm sure it doesnt say so. Thanks Musicman67 (talk) 17:13, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  English roots?? 

message: I've read several accounts that call into question the reality of her relationship with Jim Morrison, from people doubting the marriage ritual that she alleged took place to people to people claiming they didn't even know each other, or in a very limited way (press to star). There has been several reports of holes in her story of them together, no pictures or letters she claimed she had ever were shown, no band mates had met her outside of a interview scenario and I read that there were even conflicting dates, when she said he was with her but he was confirmed as being somewhere else. Anyone else read the books or heard of this disputed history?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tallestgirl (talk • contribs) 06:31, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patricia Keannealy 

message: (comments removed) Karppinen (talk) 09:35, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the editor was right to revert this. We do not use mug-shots unless the article is about a notorious criminal. Morrison was not a notorious criminal. Period. That's the end of the argument. Using a mugshot for a non-criminal related article puts undue weight on that event. And we do not use photos from The Smoking Gun. This is a mugshot = not here. Wildhartlivie (talk) 22:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "Injustice"? Are you joking?  The last time you tried this with this image, I patiently explained to you that this image is already in The Doors article.  If you think it's "clever", as you put it, to crop a well-known criminal mugshot and put it in the main Infobox of a musician, I'm afraid I don't see the genius of that.  Without discussion, you just went ahead and re-inserted the mug in an inappropriate place; yet again.  Did you think no one would notice or object this time?  Saying the cropped image should be in the article and saying it should be the main image in the Infobox are very different things.  You seem more interested in putting it in the Infobox, and I assure you that if you don't comment (like you didn't last time), and rather just wait a few weeks and re-insert it; the results will be the same.  Thanks... Doc9871 (talk) 06:59, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

text: P.S. - I really don't mean to sound condescending or discouraging at all to you, Karppinen.  This is how I know about WP:UNDUE: I had a devil of a time getting this mug shot (as one of the only free images of the man) into the Jimi Hendrix article at all.  Editors (including two administrators) felt that the image was undue, giving negative weight to the subject. Eventually, the article was cooperatively reorganized to allow the image; but it took some convincing arguments to get it in.  If I had cropped it, it would "hide" the fact that it was a mug shot in plain sight, as people know what the image is.  Now, if I had tried to put the Jimi Hendrix mugshot in the Infobox, or crop it to conceal the mug shot reality and put it in the Infobox, the Hendrix mug shot might not be in the article right now.  It's the same for the Morrison mug.  I hope you understand, and happy editing! Doc9871 (talk) 05:36, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  the issue over new image 

message: What else is known about Jim Morrison while he was a student at UCLA? I recall that Peter Mays, road manager for the Doors,  then at the UCLA Film School, Melnitz Hall, observed that Morrison attended Jack Hirschman's class on Antonin Artaud in Comparative Literature within the English Department. Hirschman was then an Assistant Professor of English at UCLA from 1961 until 1966, an Author, published Poet and collegial contemporary of Michael McClure, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Philip Lamantia, Bob Kaufman, among others.
::
...In 1965, while in Greece, the Artaud Anthology, which Hirschman edited, was published by City Lights Books in San Francisco. Hirschman's work on the volume includes selecting material and organizing translations from the French, including some of his own translations. He is assisted by others, including David Rattray. The most affirming review of the book is by Charles Bukowski in the Los Angeles Free Press... Hirschman was fired by UCLA for his alleged activities against the state in 1966...Hirschman remained in California living in Venice, from 1967-1971....His students at UCLA include Gary Gach, Steven Kessler, Max Schwartz, Jim Morrison, among others. ....
''
These above quotations are excerpted from Jack Hirshman's and Matt Gonzalez detailed chronology dated May 24th 2002 which was published by04:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hirschman told me (interviewed for Beat Scene Press, Coventry, UK circa 1997) that he barely remembered Morrison as a student. Just one time in particular when JM disrupted a reading Hirschman and others were giving by heckling. Altcult101 (talk) 10:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: How's about we reference that (a link would be nice, and would eliminate the "circa")?  Then it could be added to the article!  My Mom always told me I was "special", but I can't include that as a reference anywhere... Doc9871 (talk) 10:30, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Morrison at UCLA