Talk:Grand tourer

message: Would the coupe version of Lancia's former flagship, the Kappa, produced from 1994 to 2001 qualify as a GT? It was luxurious and could easily make very light work of very long distances - plus, it was comfortable and fast, especially in the 2.0 turbocharged and 3.0 V6 guises. Elp gr (talk) 17:17, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Lancia Kappa Coupe?

message: Needs to have a section, or separate page, on the GT racers....  Trekphiler 02:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GTR

message: Dear members,
I would like to request that the 3 series coupes be added back under the GT car section. I was told that the 3 series should not be included due the fact that it is considered "low powered." Unfortuntely, this to me seems more of an opinion rather than a fact, and the new E92 coupes stray away from this further considering the 335i coupe has 300 hp and the E92 M3 will have 425hp outputs. The definition presented in this PARTICULAR entry, explains nothign about power being a determining factor other than the statement of "high performance." I do honestly believe that while old model E46's like the 325Ci may not fit a the definition of a grand tourer, higher performance vehicles such as the 330Ci, M3, the new 335i Coupe, and the upcoming M3 will surely fit the definition pound for pound within this article! Also, note that size is not a determining factor either, but as far as weight goes, we all should know that the 3 series coupes do weigh in at approximately 3500 pounds. They seem to me, like an "entry" or "beginning" level GT car.
Please let me know what you think and I will be happy to add it back in there! Also, if you want, I can specifically state that we are referring to the NEW more powerful E92 models. Thank you! --128.95.141.33 23:15, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I should've been more specific. The new 3-series is indeed a very quick automobile. Then again, current Toyota Camry's are faster than some Porsches from the 80s! I think of the 3-series as a luxury sport sedan or sport coupe (though in Europe, 3-series aren't considered to be as luxurious as they are in the US).  Most of the other entries in the article are from the higher-end ranges, but engineered for highway cruising versus the track. (I don't think any of them would cost less than $50,000 US adjusted for current dollars).   What would be helpful is if we could find a few sources that more definitively set some parameters for what defines a GT car. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Followup I reverted my changes after finding a reference supporting your claim that the 335i coupe is considered (at least by one  Car and Driver writer) to be a grand tourer. Here's a Google search that searches for "grand tourer" among three major auto magazines.  I noticed that there were a few sub-50k USD cars mentioned, like the new Mitsubishi GT and the Infiniti G35. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great catches guys. I think that the 335i Coupe is very appropriate here. I also feel that we should not include the G35 and the Mitsubishi GT considering the fact that we are using a bit of a "price" requirement of at least 50 thousand and up to be included, and it looks like Jamie did the right thing by just adding the 335i. I think sports coupe fits the 330Ci and the earlier models, but the new one I can definitely see as a GT. --24.16.63.142 01:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 3 Series as a GT car

message: I think there should be a general agreement that although they are small coupes with 2 doors, the 3-series, M3, Audi A4 and A5 and the Mercedes CLK are not comfortable enough to be long distance GT cars, however much their lightness helps their performance compared to fatter cars. The Audi A5 should be removed from the list. The Volvo v70 and Alfa GT dont qualify either. --81.105.245.251 16:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One year later, this issue is still unsolved. Most grand tourers are Italian and British, ie Aston Martin, Bentley, Jaguar, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati and smaller marques (not all their models, of course). Other than them, the few models I would classify as such are the BMW 6 and 8 Series and the Merc CL and SL. I know little about cars older than me. However, I doubt that I would call any Japanese or American sports car as a grand tourer. I'll remove models (done) that certainly aren't grand tourers. --NaBUru38 (talk) 23:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A5/S5/3er/M3/CLK 

message: Although this car lies somewhere between been a GT car and a racer i believe it still has enough qualities to be considered as a GT.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.67.45.229 (talk) 12:39, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren? 

message: Datsun (Nissan) models from the 70's
The S30 (240z, 260z and 280z) is a two seater that doesn't pretend to be anything other than a light, compact sports coupe even after gaining more "luxury" features over time.
It's undeniably a quick fun car but isn't what most reasonable people would call relaxing to drive over long distances at speed.
In comparison, it's GRS30 sister car (260z 2+2 and 280z 2+2, aka 2/2 JDM) is what the GT version should be.
It's heavier, longer, normally fitted with more options and a little roomier. To make it even better, it's actually easier to enter/exit because of the longer doors!
On the road it's a less tiring car principally because the longer wheelbase induces less pitch.
There's good argument that the GRS30 couldn't be a GT because it's not a "luxury car" but how do we define "luxury"?
That is a very individual assessment which some will relate to price tag, others to a nice leather interior and yet others to lots of chrome.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aarc240 (talk • contribs) 11:07, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classic example of "sports" vs "GT" that were never labeled that way. 

message: As the article states, the technical definition of a 'GTO' is a car homologated for use in motorsport.  The Ferrari 599 GTO, despite being given the GTO moniker, does not meet that technical definition.  'GTO' in the case of the Pontiac and Mitsubishi models may similarly be misused, so perhaps the technical definition should be expanded or accompanied by discussion of this use of 'GTO' for vehicles not intended for homologation for motorsport.  A better example than the given 599, in the interim, might be the Ferrari 250 GTO or 288 GTO, as both of these were built for homologation purposes.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.195.98.94 (talk) 04:20, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  GTO - Definition v. Use 

message: The article states: "Grand tourers emphasize comfort and handling over straight-out high performance or spartan accommodations." 
So the 911/Boxster are Sports cars. The 928 is a GT. 911 does not belong here. PLawrence99cx (talk) 19:05, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Porsche 911

message: It's a bit shocking to be reading an article on grand tourers and come across the picture of a 1982 Volkswagen Golf GTi (Mk1), especially because the caption doesn’t make it clear that it’s not a real grand tourer by any stretch of the imagination. Some readers may miss the section that says “Many vehicles that are not actually gran turismo use this appellation to increase sales,” and therefore they’ll be left with the false impression that a Volkswagen Golf is a grand tourer. Don’t you think it would be suitable to put something like “1982 Volkswagen Golf GTi (Mk1); an example of a false gran turismo.”  in the caption to prevent confusion and misinformation? (Hindsighter (talk) 02:05, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Volkswagen Golf not a Grand Tourer 

message: A grand touring car is for touring in the grand manner. For travelling in a Very Fast (therefore very expensive) car with no real luggage space except maybe for her handbag (all of it moving very fast) and a big car with luggage following behind or ahead or . . .  (or a big aircraft or private jet). All done purely for the pleasure of the driving and any scenery that might get noticed and the knowledge that the driver is a most superior human being. I do not see how Golf GTIs or marvellous little Fiat Balillas can be considered Grand tourers, they are cleverly designed warmed up economy cars are they not? 
A supercar with a beautifully finished interior would be the current equivalent. Eddaido (talk) 06:01, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revision 

message: Eddaido's definition of a "Grand Tourer" fits very well with authors/historians such as Sam Dawson, and with an "Anglo" point of view (and also with the French "Grand Routiere" concept, refer for example Stobbs). However this viewpoint does not account for the works of Wood, Vack et al. A wider view of the "Gran Turismo" concept must also take in its predominantly Italian origins and evolution, of which both pre- and post-war Fiat-based berlinettas such as the Balilla, SIATA and Cisitalia are the most obvious and representative, but far from only, examples.  (See also the pre-war Alfa-Romeo and BMW aerodynamic coupes.)  Vitally important too, to understanding these origins and subsequent evolution, are the influence of racing and particularly the Mille Miglia. The original Italian "Gran Turismo" was far more an "enclosed sports car" than it was a "tourer in the grand manner". 
In fact, in my own view, a careful examination of the naming of various models of Alfa Romeo 6C strongly suggest that the "Gran Turismo" (subsequently "Grand Touring") nomenclature was a happy accident rather than a direct reference to touring in the grand manner.  Hint: Gran Prix, Sport, Super Sport, Gran Sport, Turismo, Gran Turismo. This nomenclature was contemporary for Jano, Lurani and Ferrari all. This however would be original research and not admissable here.  Will simply leave for your consideration. 
All these cars and concepts lead inexorably (as the images, particularly, relate; a picture is worth a thousand words after all) to the Lancia Aurelia B20GT which "everyone" agrees is the definitive genesis of the Grand Touring car.  It would be a very strange and lacking narrative indeed that begins with the Aurelia GT popping into existence from 'nowhere'. The Coppa Inter-Europa and Campianato Gran Turismo Internazionale, for example, are contemporary with the development of English notions of the "Grand Tourer" (see Bristol and Healey; and also pre-war enclosed Bentleys which could usefully be added to the Wiki). These concepts are now quite well covered and cited in this wiki, and are properly considered all together in my view, although a pre-war "Grand Routiere" section might be useful as well (perhaps including the explanation that post-war French tax policies effectively killed the concept off).
"GTi"s etc, are a vitally important part of the puzzle of the subsequent dissemination and dilution of the original and various "GT" concepts into both popular (and particularly) commercial culture. These are an important piece of the narrative too (however unpleasant to aficionados, among which I count myself, humbly) and especially to Wiki readers who might come here hoping to gain an understanding of the "GT badge" they remember on their Dad's old Cortina (and/or Falcon if you're an antipodean, GTHO anybody?). I'm planning an additional section for this Wiki which recounts this history, particularly Ford's "Total Performance" era with the Mustang and Capri GTs which started the dissemination, and the Toyota 2000 GT (recently sold for $1.2 million!) and Datsun/Nissan 240Z which carried it on (refer Wood, for example).
Additionally pending sections expanding for example on the evolution of Aston Martin grand tourers will further round out the grand "Anglo-centric" concept too.
An encyclopedic article must take in the whole history, not just our personal favorites.
Steve Limpus (talk) 23:27, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balillas and GTIs 

message: With the term Gran Turismo, Granturismo or even with the abbreviation GT, it is a high performance car, but also suitable for long journeys.
In the sports field, the International Automobile Federation defines it as follows in Appendix J of 1961 to the International Sports Code:
« Grand Touring cars are vehicles built in small series for customers who are looking for a better performance and/or a maximum comfort and are not particularly concerned about economy[1] »
In the following years [2] [3] [4] [5] this definition is slightly modified in the text, while remaining unchanged in substance. Gran Turismo are different from "Sports cars" as they are designed to look for maximum performance, even though they are necessarily equipped with all the necessary equipment for road traffic [2], although from 1972 such equipment was still allowed but not required [6].
Therefore, Gran Turismo is generalist and does not correspond to the specific features or aesthetics of the bodywork, as it is in the case of berlinette, coupe, spyder, boat, roadster and so on. GT is often used by automakers in the official designations of their models and by the FIA ​​to define specific classes of car racing (FIA GT Championship).
His body has normally two doors and a very aerodynamic and streamlined line, he often has the front engine fitted and has a good capacity boot. Some argue that it should contain "two golf bags". Its engine is powerful and its peak speed is high.
The name comes from the fact that these cars are able to easily travel long distances in a short time and with relative comfort.
* Please note, the many references are to publications in English Eddaido (talk) 04:42, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  An Italian view 

message: Why article has conflic in GT history when 1st GT car is 1929 Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 GT and the article says  "the grand touring car concept is generally considered to have originated in Europe in the early 1950s" this just wrong , opinions? in my opionion its originated in Europe in 1920s , the ref given says "modern" GT class is from 1950s , but this article should tell the whole story from beginning -->Typ932 T·C 17:52, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  GT history 

message: What is the correct spelling, Elliot or Elliott? 77.169.9.65 (talk) 15:14, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elliot or Elliott? 

message: In the "See also" section, it says that the motorcycle equivalents of a GT car are the "cruisers" and "tourers" ("Cruiser and Touring motorcycle—motorcycle equivalents"). I read the respective articles and it seems to me that  cruisers ar not equivalent to GTs, as they are not made for driving long distances (:"At low to moderate speeds, cruisers are more comfortable than other styles, but riding for long periods at freeway speeds can lead to fatigue from pulling back on the handlebars to resist the force of the wind against the rider's chest."). I tourer is made for exactly that: driving long distances. Specifically, a sport touring motorcycle combine long distance driving capability of a tourer with the high speed of a sport motorcycle, being similar to a GT which also combines both capabilities. I think that this should be changed to say that the motorcycle equivalent of a GT is a sport tourer or, at least, a tourer.Magnetizedlion27 (talk) 01:09, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also section