Talk:First Colonial High School

message: Do not post personally identifiable information of currently enrolled students who are juviniles.  It is potentially dangerous, and parents don't want this.  The school probably doesn't want this either.  Thank you.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Njrotcparent (talk • contribs) 20:41, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parent of underage student 

message: :  Can you enlighten me as to the real reason for the reversion on the First Colonial High School page? There is a very clear invitation on the sister FB page, limiting alumni edits on FB to WP.  It is inappropriate for WP to govern content on FB.  You will note the said invitation in the image I've linked here.
If the real reason you do not wish alumni to identify themselves (all of us are adults, incidentally, by definition), is because of storage and bandwidth issues (and I suspect it is, having had numerous discussions with the creative commons admins), then you should just say so. 
This section was not subtitled "Notable Alumni" WP:BIO  We already have Mark Ruffalo in that section.  So WP:BIO doesn't apply.
And, beyond that, if it's proof you need... neutral and all that NPOV stuff, it is proof you shall have. (I resent your implication of vandalism by appending WP:TW to justify your rollback.)
Now, for a little... WP:NPOV [WP:NVNF] WP:INTREF sourcing...
First, there's an (unofficial) list of my own Class members.
Then, there's the list in pdf format of the scanned pages of my class from the official FCHS 1997 Alumni Directory, shown here.  We refer to the list, fondly, as the "Toilet Paper List."
Then, there's the irrefutable yearbook, itself.  Look closely at the bottom of this page, and you'll be able to see me...  albeit 36 years ago.  President of the School's What?  National HONOR Society...?  Oh, you know who they are... the people who are, um, I dunno, uh... honorable? And here is the cover of the reliable secondary neutral source. And here is the first proof positive page you seek... And here is the second, indicating publication by Hunter Publishing, Winston-Salem, NC.  Oh lookie, I believe I am on the staff!
While this may not be a scholarly article, nor one, even meriting notable mention as an academic paper.  By WP's own admission in numerous places, WP:WINARS  WP:VER etc., not to mention the unimportant rating of this article's stub class...  it seems clear to me you didn't even try to search for any proof of reliable sources.
Now... .  Whatever am I going to do with you WP competing Admins?  Please read the notice to Donner60 about kidnapping our school's page on FB. (I though user space and domain name squatting was made a violation of federal law about 13 years ago.  Am I wrong?)
Dr. Hogendobler   Dr. Hoo (talk) 09:44, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I am undoing the edits so I may (1) copy the code and (2) add the citations.  I am NOT undoing the edits to be defiant.  Thanks...  Dr. Hoo (talk) 09:46, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: FYI:  http://www.firstcolonialhs.vbschools.com/aup.htm   Dr. Hoo (talk) 09:51, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I am done undoing.  Please advise next time before you do anything like that.  And please undo your stranglehold on our FB page.  Does FB know you're rewriting their edit policies? Dr. Hoo (talk) 10:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to Electric Wombat for explaining this so well. I left a slightly longer comment in the Copyright section below but I realized that I should put my thanks in this section where you left your comments. Donner60 (talk) 01:31, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable is the invitation on our alma mater's Facebook® page to edit it as can only be done on WP. 

message: With my thanks.  Don't all jump at once!  Thank you all...  Dr. Hoo (talk) 11:18, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last admin to read Section 2 (and named therein) gets the notable honor of deleting sections 2 and 3... 

message: Per, Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ, "The absence of a copyright notice does not mean that a work may be freely used. If in doubt, assume you cannot use it."
Government identities in Virginia have copyright over all their works.  Some states don't, such as Washington.  If you have your photo taken for a year book, the district owns the copyright to the photo.  As the lyrics have been published, it is automatically copyrighted (see Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ#What is copyright?). Only the author can change copyright status or renounce the copyright altogether.  The school district has to ask for permission to use the song lyrics and they cannot change copyright status.  So, any song lyrics, music, photos or video that have been published in the United States is copyrighted unless published otherwise.  Virginia Beach school system follows the same copyright rules as Wikipedia. Section I states, "Because the extent of copyright protection of certain works found on the Internet is unclear, users will make a standard practice of requesting permission from the holder of the work if their use of the material has the potential of being considered an infringement."
The links you gave does not mention copyright.  Disclaimer page doesn't mention it. Offsite links page only covers external links found on their webpage. It does not cover external links found on other sites, such as Wikipedia. The about link only says who wrote the song, not the song's copyright status.
Until permission is given by the authors of the song, it cannot be on Wikipedia.  The authors must contact Wikipedia personally to grant permission.  See Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for information on how this is done. Bgwhite (talk) 18:27, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, seriously, for taking the time.  I made a photographic artwork of it...  can I use it?  It's my own creation...  Dr. Hoo (talk) 20:03, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Barb and Bill died years ago...  so you're saying that no one can publish our high school's alma mater?  HUH?  Dr. Hoo (talk) 20:04, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The words are still on the image, so you can't.  Welcome to the wonderful world of U.S. copyright law where Happy Birthday to You is still copyrighted, even though the authors died in the 1940s.  The rule of thumb is anything published or copyrighted after 1927 is locked up.  There are exceptions.  If Congress hadn't  changed the law, then everything from around 1954 and earlier would now be in the public domain.  The law is often called the "Mickey Mouse Protection Act" because Disney was throwing money around to pass the law.  Mickey Mouse was created in 1928.   Now, we have to wait till 2030 for things to start to expire.  For works by people, the law states, "copyright would last for the life of the author plus 70 years."  My favorite act of stupidity is Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech.  His kids hold the copyright. Bgwhite (talk) 21:26, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to Bgwhite and Electric Wombat for their explanations. Wikipedia certainly does not have relationship with Facebook nor does it control what anyone puts on Facebook. So these comments are astounding to me. As is pointed out, the control is coming from somewhere else, not from Wikipedia. Furthermore, Wikipedia has its own notability requirements which must be met and cannot be overlooked just because someone has restricted access to a Facebook page that Wikipedia has no relationship with or control over. Donner60 (talk) 01:21, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

text: I should add that Mark Ruffalo is notable. If his name was reverted it was either not linked to his article or was caught up in the reversion of some non-notable names added at the same time. Donner60 (talk) 01:24, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright 

message: Dr. Hoo (talk) 20:06, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It's becoming less so by the hour... Dr. Hoo (talk) 21:26, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  THIS IS A BORING PAGE. 

message: Please understand that this is not the school's article on Wikipedia; rather, it is Wikipedia's article on the school.  Simply put, what that means is that current students and alumni have no greater right to edit this article and no greater say in it's content than anyone else.  In extremes, which the discussion above is approaching, editors connected with the school as students, faculty or alumni could be said to have a conflict of interest when it comes to this article.
All articles on Wikipedia have their content decided based on consensus.  There have been some consensuses already formed about the content of school articles.  These have been incorporated into a guideline and can be found at WP:SCH/AG.  Among those consensuses are we do not include the lyrics or music of Alma Maters.
I have a considerable amount of experience working on school articles.  I will be working on a re-write for this article over the next 15 or so hours.  The recent edits for the most part can be termed as WP:SCHOOLCRUFT, so my starting point will be back in April.  If the authors of the recent edits would like to talk about the content they would like to see, I will be happy to discuss it with them.  Frankly, all I see is an article that was pretty poor just being made larger, not any better.  The writing in this article is atrocious. I will be happy to clean up the run-ons, the rotten syntax, etc.  Referencing will need to be improved and I am sure there are some content issues still. Please bear in mind that any discussion of content will need to focus on references and Wikipedia policy and guidelines. John from Idegon (talk) 16:37, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: THANK YOU! :-)  Dr. Hoo (talk) 17:39, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok...I have gotten started.  There is now a nearly appropriate athletics section.  The only thing that is missing is citations to the state championships.  I do not know where to look for that info about a school in Virginia.  It is my feeling that the info on clubs should go, as there are several dozen clubs and listing them all would serve little purpose.  Listing "some" is an area fraught with difficulty.  It is just asking for WP:UNDUE.  the lede needs to be written over into style. John from Idegon (talk) 18:43, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree re. clubs although there are two I think could be mentioned and are active... let me look into the athletics query and shoot some links/info on those other two outfits.  Thanks for doing this.  Also, I'll see what the school board or admin says re alma mater.Dr. Hoo (talk) 20:08, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll pop on here as I find tidbits for you to pull info from... this lists first principal...  http://www.vbschools.com/schools/history/high.asp#first Dr. Hoo (talk) 20:28, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I sent three emails to school system personnel. Dr. Hoo (talk) 21:17, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

text: John from Idegon: Thanks for your explanations and contributions. This page now has some good information and explanations that can be useful for other questions or discussions on other pages. Donner60 (talk) 02:26, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: John from Idegon:  I only didn't breathe because you gave me a limited amount of time within which to find some answers to your queries.  Yes, I lost my breath when I read it===>  "over the next 15 or so hours."  I agreed with your comments regarding clubs before, and perhaps I was not clear.  First Colonial also serves as the "Legal Studies Institute" or something like that.  And the band, not to discriminate against the other students who travel to away games, does play at halftimes.  I would think it would feel sleighted if teams were mentioned and it was not.  (And who can rule out cheerleaders?? HA!)   Have a good night, and thank you... and you, too, Donner60, for all you are both doing.  Dr. Matt (talk) 07:12, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheerleading is usually covered as part of athletics, and the same basic restrictions apply to content about them (and the band too).  We don't usually include mundane things.  Almost every high school's band marches at halftime of their football games, so that is not something we need to talk about.  And unless the cheer squad is a competitive one, there will be nothing to say about them.  They are cheerleaders; they cheer.  I don't see any reason to include that in the article. John from Idegon (talk) 08:54, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:OWN|Ownership]] of this article and general info on how to edit high school articles