Talk:Princess Delphine of Belgium

message: I don't believe that Ms. Boel would have had the option of "taking her mother's title," since titles in Europe usually descend through the male line only, unless the mother is a reigning monarch or was granted some special concession.  That sentence may need to be rewritten or removed.68.72.97.109 (talk) 19:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Moreover, "tu" is very informal. A contemporary European constitutional King wanting to stress to an unfamiliar person that she's not his child would likely use "vous". YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 21:48, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Title

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Does anybody have a decent source for the purported marriage of Delphine?  The first source cited says "husband", but without further precision.  The second source cited only says they are living together since 2003 - just as any other source I've seen until now.  So, there is a serious doubt about that marriage. Sigur (talk) 17:57, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see a parameter for "partner" or something similar in :Template:Infobox royalty. Should the spouse field just be cleared in the infobox? Aoi (青い) (talk) 08:51, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed :-) Fram (talk) 08:56, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Purported marriage 

message: The name as currently used by this article, Princess Delphine of Belgium, is incorrect. While the current Royal family uses the last name "of Belgium" following a change by King Albert I after WWI, this was solely an informal change and was never changed legally. Hence the Brussels Court of Appeals has based itself on the Constitution, in which article 85 states that the last name of King Leopold I, first King of the Belgians, is "of Saxony-Coburg". This also follows a recent change in policy by the current King Philippe, who has decided that only children of the current monarch and heir may bear the last name "of Belgium" while all other family members will bear the last name "of Saxony-Coburg". Hence her name is not, as this article suggest, "Princess Delphine of Belgium", but rather "Delphine of Saxony-Coburg" with the title "Princess of Belgium". Here is a Dutch source on the matter by a professor in law of the university of Leuven.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1811:DC38:CE00:C507:DE4E:45DE:BAE9 (talk) 13:58, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: As your source correctly states, "of Belgium" isn't a surname for any of those royals, but part of the title "Prince(ss) of Belgium" for all of them (including Delphine).  It's just that some of them de facto have the habit of actually using their surname and others don't. But legally, both the surname and the titel are the same for Delphine and her half-siblings. Now, I don't care, what the lemma should be, but I note that the lemmas for all her half-siblings are styled "... of Belgium", so at least this seems coherent. Sigur (talk) 13:02, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  The discrepancy is a result of, as I mentioned, a recent change in policy by the current king. Previously every member of the family was allowed to bear the surname "of Belgium", so when Delphine's half-siblings were born they gained this last name. The current king however changed this policy to the one I described up above, and since Delphine was granted official family status after this change happened the Royal family requested that the name "of Saxony-Coburg" be used, a request which the Court of Appeals followed. So Delphine bears a different surname than her half-siblings, true, but this is her legal name.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1811:DC38:CE00:C507:DE4E:45DE:BAE9 (talk) 17:25, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you please read your own source? "Sinds Albert I verkiest de koninklijke familie de titel te ­gebruiken, in plaats van hun ­familienaam. Vandaar de verwarring." Okay? They use a title instead of a surname. They haven't changed their surname. "Titel" "in plaats van hun familienaam".  Yes, their surname, because "of Saxony-Coburg" remains their surname, they simply have the habit of not using it and using their title instead. It's crystal clear. But the rule is the same for everybody, and I gave the link to the rule and its translation above.  It's easy to see that Delphine and her half-siblings bear the same surname and the same title. She said she wasn't going to use the title much, but definitely the surname. Her choice. Her half-siblings are permanently using their title, but generally not their surname. Their choice. Does that warrant a difference in the lemma? I don't know, and I actually don't care. But stop saying that they don't share the same surname.  It is simply beyond conceivable debate that they all legally have the same surname ("of Saxony-Coburg") and the same title ("Prince(ss) of Belgium").  Sigur (talk) 18:58, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If I follow this link: Delphine officieel prinses van Saksen-Coburg on standaard.be about the court ruling of 1 Oct 2020 (only to the title and subtitle of the article because of the payment barrier), it clearly states that she was given the name prinses van Saksen-Coburg. There is no mention of a Princess of Belgium. A fundamental distinction must be made: The family name of the royal family is de Saxe-Cobourg/Saksen-Coburg/Sachsen-Coburg (in the 3 official languages of Belgium), with the associated (originally German) title of prince/ss. The title Prince/ss of Belgium is not a family name, as correctly stated in the discussion above, but a constitutional title. It is only available to members of the royal family who are in direct line of succession to the throne after Albert II. (which she as an illegitimate child is not). The members of the house have indeed a family name (with an ancient title), plus a current royal title: Prince/sse de Saxe-Cobourg, prince/sse de Belgique. Which of these they use in everyday life is up to them. The court could only recognize a last name, not a title. Many newspaper articles confuse this, which was probably due to the misleading press release from her lawyer. Courts can recognize or assign family names, but can hardly grant titles of nobility. This is reserved for monarchs. The ex-king's lawyer also emphasized it: https://www.businessinsider.com/former-king-albert-belgium-daughter-delphine-royal-title-2020-9   And nowhere, absolutely nowhere, could I find the text of the court ruling online. Probably for reasons of privacy. On her own website she calls herself Delphine de Saxe-Cobourg  Another question is whether this is just an official surname or actually a title of nobility. If the current king, her half-brother, recognizes the title of princess (of Saxe-Coburg), she will be ennobled. I haven't found any official confirmation that this happened. The royal family's website contains the following message about a meeting between the king, her half-brother, and Delphine: Message commun de Sa Majesté le Roi et de Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Delphine. There she is called "Her Royal Highness Princess Delphine", although without mentioning her family name (Saxe-Coburg). In no way is she called “Princess of Belgium” there. This could indicate that her princess title (of Saxe-Coburg) will be recognized as such. The Coburgians are entitled to the title of Royal Highness, both in the Anglo-German and Belgian branches. But press releases are no substitute for a letters patent. Nothing is known of such a thing yet. Press secretaries are not monarchs either (and who knows who ordered what... or who didn't want to annoy whom). If you search here, you won't find an official press release about it, just tons of newspaper articles with contradicting information. But journalists can no more ennoble than judges or employees of the press office. I think the current lemma is simply wrong, she is neither Princess of Belgium nor is that her name. She's not a Princess of Saxe-Coburg either, that's just her name - as long as there is no letters patent. Her children may also use the name, but certainly not as a noble title, because female succession to noble titles is not provided for under traditional Salic law in Belgium, unless it is expressly stated in a Letters Patent. The designation of Delphine's children as Princes of Belgium in this article is therefore absurd. Even more so since in 2015 the King limited the title of “Prince/ss of Belgium” to the children and grandchildren of the monarch and the heir to the throne who are in the “line of succession”: Le Roi limite l’octroi du titre de "prince de Belgique", while all other descendants (in the male line) will just keep their family name and title of Prince/ss of Saxe-Coburg. In previous generations, monarchs would have given their enfants bâtards worthy but inferior morganatic titles, as did King Louis XIV (and many others). If Albert II had done this in time, he would probably have saved himself a lot of trouble. Unfortunately, the discussion here is full of (press) smokescreens and a lot of confusion. The correct lemma would be: Delphine of Saxe-Coburg or, as English is not an official language of Belgium and her mere name not (undisputedly) a title - rather: Delphine de Saxe-Cobourg, as she calls herself. Equord (talk) 18:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong lemma 

message: Her children are now notable ? Her children are also members of the reigning royal family and officially received the royal titles. So should we create articles for them? , , “ As a result, the down-to-earth teenager immediately swapped her old name of Josephine Boel for the new title of Princess Josephine de Saxe-Cobourg Gotha — as did her little brother Prince Oscar, 12.”. All children of the senior members of royal family have their standlone WP articles.
Princess Josephine de Saxe-Cobourg Gotha is in 17. VocalIndia (talk) 18:38, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I do not think we should. Notability is not inherited, and those are really not the kind of sources upon which an encyclopedia should be built. They are just minors whose mother has won a court case. We have also recently deleted articles about Prince Laurent's children. Surtsicna (talk) 23:14, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Ughh...  Thank you so much for pointing me to this. VocalIndia (talk) 07:58, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Notability on her children 

message: I've just taken off "et Gotha" as part of her surname. I know that the name is often given as Saxony-Cobourg and Gotha, which was the traditional name of the family before the first king acceded to the Belgian throne, but the Belgian constitution keeps it to "Saxony-Cobourg" and this is also the version I've seen Delphine's lawyer use when commenting the court proceedings.  So, unless there is some official source for the version with "Gotha", I think we need to keep the one we find in the constitution. Sigur (talk) 07:13, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Leopold I of Belgium was actually born a Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld, not of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. The latter house was founded by his elder brother Ernest I, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. When he swapped Saalfeld for Gotha in 1826, the family changed its name. Equord (talk) 17:09, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gotha