Talk:Wilhelmus

message: When receiving a foreign head of state or emissary, the Dutch anthem is not allowed to be played if there is no member 
 of the Dutch Royal House present, this is virtually unique in the world as most countries play their own anthem and 
 then play the anthem of the foreign relation.[8]
Firstly the reference link is broken so this statement goes unproven. Secondly the reason that the link is broken is simply because the article was outdated and removed by the site. In 2004 the queen wanted to claim the anthem which was later officially denied. I think the best is to just remove this phrase, but I am not a frequent Wikipedia contributor and don't want to take that decision. See http://geschiedenis.vpro.nl/artikelen/34627128/ and judge for yourself. Erniecom (talk) 17:05, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccuracy in the Performance section 

message: When singing the anthem, us dutch only sing the first and sixth stanza. While they are color-coded to reflect this (presumably), it's not mentioned explicitly anywhere in the text.Mr.WaeseL 12:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: An omission about everyday use

message: The phrase
 Dat ik doch vroom mag blijven
is not properly translated with
 so that I shall remain pious
"Vroom" is indeed "pious" in modern Dutch, and it will certainly be interpreted this way by all contemporary speakers who aren't also historically inclined, but originally "vroom" meant "strong", "steadfast". See the Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal -- if you can. :-) --JRM 23:06, 2004 Oct 16 (UTC)
:True, the normal meaning then was simply "brave".--MWAK 10:07, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I had assumed as much ;o)--MWAK 14:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vroom isn't Pious 

message: As User:Rex Germanus is very busy moving articles (mainly those covering German matters, coincidentally) to new titles he calls "English", I decided to support him with this move of this anthem to The William. This is uncontroversial, as the person in question is also called William the Silent in English Wikipedia, not Wilhelmus. Compare to the much more famous Emperor William II of Germany, who is not called Kaiser Wilhelm zwo here either. Besides, William the Silent was born in present day (and then, of course) Germany, and the lyrics also are a matter of interpretation, too. 
Rex,  , surely would not support Dutch nationalism.-- Matthead discuß!     O       01:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Naturally I reverted this  edit, bordering on vandalism. Matthead, "Het Wilhelmus" is the name of the anthem, not "the william", which is a translation. I know you tried to irritate me because I interfered with your "edits" on persons of the teutonic order, (where you moved names already in English, as custom with nobility) reverting or modifying your  edits. Refrain from this kind of  actions. This time its a warning, next time I will report you to the admins.Rex 17:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

text: It was to be expected one of  would show up soon. Dear "anonymous" IP, nobility (afap) is always translated. JH van den Broeck wasn't a noble hence his name shouldn't be translated.Rex 14:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: PS, as an "anonymous" IP, you can't change article names.Rex 14:46, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved to ''The William'' 

message: Should this article say anything about the song Nederlands o Nederlands, sung in part to the tune of Auld Lang Syne, which I have seen several times sung at sporting events as though it were a national anthem? Does this song have any official status? Is it prefered by people who dislike the overtly Christian nature of Het Wilhelmus? Question arising: how do Dutch Muslims feel about singing Het Wilhelmus? Do they do so? Are there any suggestions of changing the words to something less aggressively Christian? Intelligent Mr Toad 10:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ugh... Nederland, o, Nederland is really just a popular soccer tune, and I certainly hope (and trust) it will never make it to national hymn status. (It merely informs us that our national team is champion and that we love them.) As to the Wilhelmus being "agressively Christian" ("pious" would be a better term to describe its content), I believe this comes up every once in a while, but as far as I know there are no serious plans to replace or adapt it. Iblardi 11:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nederlands o Nederlands

message: Is that the technical term? 84.53.74.196 18:14, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uhm, I don't think so. Not surprisingly, the number of Google hits for that 'term' is zero, too. Iblardi 19:42, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A one poem poet-like person? 

message: How is Het Wilhelmus different from Luxembourg's De Wilhelmus?
Ahassan05 (talk) 20:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Luxembourg's De Wilhelmus? 

message: In this item of the Wilhelmus, the first national anthem, the 16th century word "Duytsch" is wrongly translated. The word "Duytsche" was the language spoken both in Germany and in the 17 Netherlands (Northen and Southern Netherlands and Northern France). The Netherlands word "Duytsch" was correctly translated in the English word "Dutch". "The "Duytsch" language formed later in the Netherlands the "Diets" language, and in Germany "Duytsch" formed later the German language of "Deutsch" or "German". Therfore the word "Duytsch" is wrongly translated in 'Duitsen". "Am I of Dutch blood", must be "Ben ik van Dietsen bloed". It had nothing to do with the fact that William of Orange came from Nassau in Germany. They only spoke the same language. GoldenAgeHolland (talk) 02:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right: in the 16th century there was still a common language. But precisely for this reason it is better to translate it with the same word "Duits". That might be confusing because the same word is used for the present High German standard, but there simply is no other word for that language. Diets would refer to the Dutch branch only and thus not to the old common language. Apart from that, it is not a normal term in (or for) the Dutch language anyway, but an invention by nationalistic 19th century historians!--MWAK (talk) 06:01, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Aww. If I had seen your even smoother explanation before, I wouldn'T have written him the same in the first section on this discussion site. Furthermore according to the article itself the "official" version uses "Duits" instead of "Diets". So I wonder why the translation here in the article shows the unofficial wording in the translation. (At the date that I write these lines.) 82.113.106.167 (talk) 07:52, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Some history lesson: Dutch, German and English (or Ango-Saxon) started to become separate languages from common West Germanic since the 5th century. Although Dutch and German are related languages, in the 16th century almost 10 centuries had past since they started to separate from  a common language. Regardless of what is meant in the lyrics of the Wilhelmus, (High)duitsch/Dutch/(Neder)duytsch in terms of language names were almost as differentiated in meaning as Germanic vs German is today: related phonology of the two terms, applied to related languages, but non the less different languages. Because German is the language of the people of Germany, and Germanic is a term for  all the languages descendent from Proto-Germanic, of which German is just one of these languages and not even the oldest of them all. Even though today German-ic literarily means German-like, this literal meaning does not apply to the actual situation. Something similar applies to the naming of the Dutch and German language in the 16th century. By the way, the first language in history recorded by the name  'Dutch' (or 'þiudiskaz' or its Latinised form Theodiscus) was not Dutch or German, but English! Simply because the term means '[language) of the common people' --Watisfictie (talk) 00:21, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: RSes seem to give it as "Germanic":   . – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 16:04, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong translation

message: What I was trying to say in the less-than-perfect summaries of my last two edits: Let's try either to keep speculation about the possible ethno-linguistic content of terms used in the Wilhelmus out of the article, or source them properly. Iblardi (talk) 22:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "Netherlands"

message: The original lyrics were in Old German, later they were translated into Dutch. Wilhelm writes of "German blood", not line, and certainly not of "Dutch blood":
"Wilhelmus von Nassawe
bin ich von teutschem blut,
dem vaterland getrawe
bleib ich bis in den todt;
ein printze von Uranien
bin ich frey unerfehrt,
den könig von Hispanien
hab ich allzeit geehrt.
In Gottes forcht zu leben
hab ich allzeit betracht,
darum bin ich vertrieben,
umb land, und leut gebracht;
aber Gott soll mich regieren
als ein gut instrument
das ich mag widerkehren
wol in mein regiment.
Leid euch, mein untersassen,
die auffrecht sein von art,
Gott wird euch nicht verlassen,
all seit jhr nun beschwert;
wer from begert zu leben
der bitt Gott nacht und tag,
das er mir krafft wöll geben,
das ich euch helffen mag.
Leib und gut als zusammen
habe ich nit gespart,
mein brüder hoch mit name
n haben euch auch verwart;
Graff Adolff ist geblieben
in Friesland in der schlacht,
sein seel im ewigen leben
erwardt den jüngsten tag.
Edel und hochgeboren,
von keyserlichem stamm,
ein fürst des reichs erkoren,
als ein from christenman,
für gottes wort geprisen
hab ich frey unverzagt,
als ein held sonder forchten,
mein edel blut gewagt.
Mein schild und mein vertrawen
bistu, o Gott mein herr,
auff dich so will ich bawen,
verlas mich nimmer mehr;
das ich doch from mag bleiben,
dir dienen zu aller stund,
die tyranney vertreiben
die mir mein hertz durchwund.
Von allen, die mich beschweren,
und mein verfolger sein,
mein Gott, wölst doch bewaren
den trewen diener dein;
das sie mich nit verraschen
in ihrem bösen mut,
jr hende nit thun waschen
in mein unschüldigen blut.
Als David muste fliehen
vor Saulo dem tyrann,
so hab ich müssen weichen
mit manchem edelman;
aber Gott thet jhn erheben,
erlösen aus aller not,
ein königreich gegeben
in Israel, sehr gros.
Noch sawr werd ich empfangen
von Gott meim herren das süsz,
darnach so thut verlangen
mein fürstelich gemüt;
das ich doch möge sterben
mit ehren in dem feld,
ein ewigs reich erwerben
als ein getrewer heldt.
Nichts thut mich mehr erbarmen
in meinem widersput,
denn das man sicht verarme
n' des königs landen gut;
das euch die Spanier krencke
n, o edel Niderland gut,
wenn ich daran gedencken,
mein edel hertz das blut.
Als ein printz auffgesessen
mit meiner heereskrafft,
wol von dem feind vermessen
hab ich die schlacht verwacht;
der, bey Mastrich lag vergraben,
beförchtet mein gewalt,
mein reuter sach man traben
sehr mutig durch das feld.
So es der wil des herren
auf die zeit wer gewest,
het ich gern wöllen kehren
von euch dis schwere tempest;
aber der herr dort oben,
der alle ding regiert,
den man allzeit mus loben,
der hat es nit begert.
Sehr christlich war getrieben
mein fürstelich gemüt;
standhafftig ist geblieben
mein hertz in widerspüt;
den herrn hab ich gebeten,
aus meines hertzen grundt,
das er mein sach wöll richten,
mein unschuld machen kundt.
Urlaub, mein armen schaffen,
die sein in grosser not,
ewer hirt der sol nit schlaffen;
und, seid jr nun verstrewt,
zu Gott wölt euch begeben,
sein heilsam wort nempt an,
als fromme christen leben,
sol hie bald sein gethan.
Vor Gott wil ich bekennen
und seiner grossen macht,
das ich zu keinen zeiten
den könig hab veracht,
den das ich Gott den herren,
der höchsten majestet,
hab müssen obedieren
in der gerechtigkeit."'''''
By the way, Dutch is a term and a language, not a race or ancestery. The Dutch are of German (Germanic) blood, and Wilhelm, born in the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation proudly concends this fact. 91.66.8.26 (talk) 20:05, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any source for these supposed German lyrics? They sound like Dutch that is made to sound like German, not like actual German. Ucucha (talk) 21:06, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The lyrics look authentic. Remember that the vocabulary and orthography of 16th-century texts do not necessarily correspond to those of the modern standard language. In fact, the oldest datable text of the Wilhelmus seems to be a German version (not sure if this is the one) from 1573 (see Knut Kache, Wilhelm von Oranien und der Aufstand der Niederlande: Die Wahrnehmung des Freiheitskampfes gegen Spanien in der deutschen Publizistik (2009), p. 57). Iblardi (talk) 12:50, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't you expect the first letters to spell WILHELM VON... in stead of WILLEM VAN... if the text were originally written in German?? Joost 99 (talk) 16:43, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to speak of NASSVV. It seems obvious that this early German version is a translation. Iblardi (talk) 17:31, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

text: I give you some history lesson: Dutch, German and English (or Ango-Saxon) started to become separate languages from common West Germanic since the 5th century. Although Dutch and German are related languages, in the 16th century they where almost 10 centuries separated from some sort of a common language. Regardless of what is meant in the lyrics of the Wilhelmus, (High)duitsch/Dutch/(Neder)duytsch in terms of language names were almost as differentiated in meaning as Germanic vs German is today: the latter is the language of the people of Germany, the former are all the languages descendent from Proto-Germanic, of which German is just one of these languages and not even the oldest of them all. Even though today German-ic literarily means German-like, this literal meaning does not apply to the actual situation. Something similar applies to the naming of the Dutch and German languages. The first language in history recorded by the name  'Dutch' (or 'þiudiskaz' or its Latinised form Theodiscus) was not Dutch or German, but English --Watisfictie (talk) 00:06, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Original lyrics

message: Is there any reason "Verlaat mij nimmermeer" is written with a capital V? I'd correct that myself, but I'm not sure if it's a mistake or written that way intentionally. - Lucidfox (talk) 08:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Verlaat" in the sixth stanza 

message: Shouldn't this be "religious persecutions"? I'm not familiar with Dutch history, so I wouldn't want to make the edit myself.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.251.51.201 (talk) 10:32, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Religious prosecutions" in third paragraph of article 

message: I'd like to ask for the word "merely" to be struck from the fourth paragraph of the preamble: Hoornes and Egmont felt sufficiently strongly about the need to resist Alba's abuses, which rivalled those of WWII, to be willing to die for their cause.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.18.202 (talk) 19:16, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rationale for rebellion 

message: Why is a song devoted to William called "Wilhelmus"? Should it not be called "Williamus"?2601:806:4301:C100:68A6:89F9:6AA:FC80 (talk) 17:48, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Because of Anglicisation of names and Latinisation of names.--Watisfictie (talk) 11:33, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Wilhelmus" 

message: Article says "Adriaen Valerius recorded the current melody of the "Wilhelmus" in his Nederlantsche Gedenck-clanck in 1626," but the biography says he died in 1625. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 16:23, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That is correct, it was published by his heirs posthumously, see Adrianus Valerius. - Lindert (talk) 17:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I see, thanks. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 19:47, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date discrepancy 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion