Talk:Russians in Estonia

message: According to Estonian official documents Russians are not humans but mere animals - does it necessary to have link to human rights in this article?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.165.173.131 (talk) 16:05, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are Russians considered to be humans in Estonia? 

message: Please, correct your numbers - take it from the article Demographics of Estonia
Russians in Estonia in 1989 -  474,834
Russians in Estonia in 2011 -  95,939 not 320,000  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.125.6.1 (talk) 14:57, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You are mixing up Russians with citizens of the Russian Federation. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 16:48, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Number

message: There is a large study written in estonian at website www.okupatsioon.ee by Henn Sarv that gives a clear view about ethnical politics during the occupation and Karaganov's doctrine that gives a plan of using russian-speaking people in baltics and other ex-soviet occupied countries as a tool for russias agressive foreign interests. could someone translate the text for better understanding of the whole topic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.235.126.203 (talk • contribs) 22:18, 29 May 2007
::There are a lot of text; it can't be translated rapidly.  Do you have any particular passages in mind? Digwuren 11:56, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  baltic russians as 5th column of Russia 

message: My understanding is that 'raamat' has been traced from Greek γραμ* ('write', 'writing') through Old Slavic грамота, 'record' to Fenno-Ugric, including Estonian raamat ('book').
It's still weird that the meanings given for the Estonian words mentioned in the article are from Russian. Digwuren 09:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology of 'raamat' 

message: There weren't any Russians in the 11th century, as that level of ethnic combination had not yet been made.  One could, at best, talk about Krivich influences or Slavic influences.  Otherwise, it sets a nasty precedent, leading towards explaining Roman wars as being held between Americans and  Italians. Digwuren 09:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian cultural influences on 11th century 

message: I am perplexed by Martintg's campaign to tag information about House of Representatives of Ethnic Minorities of Estonia as dubious. I provided plenty of links from Estonian Russophone media, describing creation of this organization. I do not think WP is appropriate place to list every single group from 196 founding members. Besides, if wikipedian has concerns about reliability of provided sources, it is a good idea to use talk page to ask questions. RJ CG (talk) 17:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm cool with any edits as soon as they don't distort actual statement. Yours are fine so far. Actually I was wondering how could I be so sloppy with translation. RJ CG (talk) 19:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is the claim that "almost 200 groups created" this organisation, which clearly is dubious. Can you identify these 200 groups? Any single person can create an NGO and make any wild claim. Does this group have an office address or website? Are their opinions equally notable to Amnesty International?  Until there is additional verification beyond some editorial opinion on some yellow news site, the tags remain. Martintg (talk) 19:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Looks like someone already added an additional source about this group. Martintg (talk) 19:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is funny you call Postimees "yellow press". This opens whole bunch of possibilities to remove numerous claims favourable to official Estonian POV from WP, as they refer to yellow Postimees. Should we do it? Regarding your other edits, linking House to Bronze Night seem to be a little bit OR-ish to me, although I'm ready to consider it. Speaking about House's credibility, "beauty is in eye of beholder". Even AI's credibility and impartiality is challenged by many. That does not prevent many others from seeing AI as pillar of impartiality, nor does it prevent AI's documents from being used as RS. I considered House's statement WP-worthy material, as it seems that there's no serious group within Estonian Russophone community challenging House's status as umbrella organization. RJ CG (talk) 20:06, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

text: It seems to me that majority of "disagreements" here falls under WP:IDONTLIKEIT from unregistered Estonian users (isn't tracert a little wonder), who are aggrived by abrasive tone of House's statement. Regarding request for more sources, we got a problem here, as I don't read Estonian too well (I can generally follow a simple article, but can't write and, therefore, use Search) and IP editors (who seem to possess exceptional proficiency in WP lingo, isn't it a little wonder for occasional user?) are not satisfied with half-dozen sources already provided (including Russian edition of Postimees). And internal politics of Estonia seems to attract preciously little attention from Anglophone media, if event can not be used to bash Russia. BTW, "House" is headed by Rafik Grigorian, who's hardly "marginal anti-Estonian extremist". I have a suggestion, though. Why don't you guys go do your homework with regard to this organization, it's membership and influence and come back once you have more solid grounds than WP:IDONTLIKEIT? I did and provided enough sources regarding organization. Then we can discuss this issue again. Otherwise, there's always page protection from IP editors.... RJ CG (talk) 18:09, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I personally think that majority of disagreements here are coming from people who hadn't even heard about this "House" before you introduced their report here, although they live in the country where all this "representing" should been taken place, and they can (at least) read the languages this "representing" should been taken care of. Hence the suprise and questions - honestly, these three (and not half a dozen) articles you provided seem to be all that one can find about the existance of this organization. I already told you that I personally wouldn't complain if this report had been compiled and signed by their chairman (who is well-respected Russophone intellectual) - making it fully acceptable opinion, coming from prominent person. However, this report claims to be from House of Representatives of Ethnic Minorities of Estonia, representing nearly 200 minority organizations - and only thing we reaaly seem to know about this organization, is the name of their chairman (albeit it's quite prominent). 194.126.101.134 (talk) 19:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

text:  PS. Why on Earth do you think that somebody editing unregistered might be trying to hide their orign? Have you considered that in reality it's way harder to track registered account's orign, as you can't see their IP-s (unless you happen to be some admin's buddy or sockpuppet account) and you don't have anything to feed to your precious tracert (actually, tools full name is traceroute, it's tracert only in one specific OS, and in reality there couple of tools that can do this job more quickly and accuratly)? Yes, I'm from Estonia, have never denied it. Editing unregistered is my right, as long I'm not disruptive. Your calls to protect some pages from IP-editors, because they are asking from you to provide (more) sources for your claims, is showing really bad faith against your fellow editors. 194.126.101.134 (talk) 19:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

text:  PPS. Re to your "suggestion to do our homework" - I see that long wikibreak has not been good to your memory, so I have to remind you of WP:PROVEIT. Yes, I happen to know these WP-prefixed shortcuts. And no, there's nothing sinister about it. Really. 194.126.101.134 (talk) 19:51, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

text: In other news, the organization is registered as non profit org in Estonia. In the late 2007. The legal status of organization is still under a serious doubt because you can't actually represent a group of people without correct authorizations from the actual people they are representing. The group definitely doesn't have those and thus they actually don't have any legal right to call themselves the Representatives. I am waiting for the reply from some authorities in this matter. Suva Чего? 06:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  House of Representatives of Ethnic Minorities of Estonia 

message: I propose there should be two different articles. Currently the heading "Recent situation" fills a half of the article. For example in Finnish Wikipedia there is only one article fi:Viron venäläiset. I think it would be more logical this way: Main article "Estonian Russians" where there is a subarticle "History of Russians in Estonia". Peltimikko (talk) 06:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please take a look at the long discussion above. My similar suggestion didn't get consensus and it was left to that.--Termer (talk) 07:06, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Estonian Russians AND History of Russians in Estonia 

message: I red an interview of Jevgeni Kristafovich by IIvi Anna Masso in Uusi Suomi  (in Finnish). According the interview he is the leader of the organisation "Open Republic" (estonian: Avatud Vabariik, russian: Открытая Республика) . The organisation works with a youth of Estonian russians, and it is more Estonian-friendly than for example Nochnoy Dozor. Also Kristafovich himself have been denied visa in Russia and he has got under the pressure of Russian media. As I understood from the article and comments the organisation and the number of members are quite small. My questions: 1) do the organisation have any political or other significance? 2) If so, could someone sacrifice him/herself and start the article either of the person nor the organisation.  Peltimikko (talk) 04:39, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avatud Vabariik 

message: I'm not going to get involved in this article, it doesn't concern me, but just want to point out many of the references are linked from http://www.orthodox.ee/ which is a biased anti-Estonian religious fundamentalist Russian web-site. Everything derived from these sources should be deleted. Especially humorous are references to people from Kievan-Rus as if they were Russians, before Russians themselves came into existence. --Hatteras (talk) 21:28, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propaganda 

message: It seems to me that if there is 350 000 people of Russian origin, in country of only 1 300 000 people, there should be much more Estonian Russians. In sport, politics, media, tv... Singers? Actors? Can anyone add Vasiljev, Lenna Kuurmaa... actually thats all I can remember, but there must be many, many more.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.79.1 (talk) 22:28, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you kidding? Lenna is an Estonian with no Russian ancestry. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 11:59, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Lena is Russian by her father. but seems to me that you can be Russian only in sport, in Estonia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.117.239 (talk) 22:36, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What on earth are you ranting about? Lenna's father is called Rain. I don't know any Russian with that name, it is a common name in Estonian, though. She only learnt some Russian at school. Just check http://www.freewebs.com/lennakuurmaaleht/Lenna.htm . --Jaan Pärn (talk) 07:50, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  It could be I confused her with Katrin Siska, but Im pretty sure both are Russian. Name doesn't mean really much, especially with young generation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.82.1 (talk) 12:45, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Better come up with sources to back up your ridiculous claims. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 13:44, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  All I know its impossible to know is there any Russian in Eurolaul. How ever, third of your football team is Russian. Now why don't you, since you obviously know who is and who is not Russian, expand this great article with at least 10 Russians of Estonia?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.82.1 (talk) 23:11, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Participation in Eurolaul or membership in the national soccer team is hardly grounds for inclusion, unless it propels them to international renown (a criterion that most present members in the list meet). I wouldn't say that there aren't more such Russians in Estonia, but none come to mind (Ksenija Balta, I believe, is Belarussian). A large proportion of the intelligentsia that came to Estonia during the Soviet occupation and have become "household names" in their respective academic circles are actually Jewish, not Russian. Any other suggestions (besides only locally significant athletes or aspiring singers)?--Vihelik (talk) 23:42, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous Estonians of Russian origin? 

message: Article fails to mention what human rights organisation and Russia describe as discrimination against Speakers of Russian. I'll place a POV tag until issue is resolved.--Kathovo talk 12:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: What discrimination? We already have the article Human rights in Estonia. Wikipedia is not a WP:SOAPBOX. --Nug (talk) 05:40, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Nevermind I fixed it for ya.--Kathovo talk 18:11, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted you since not only is Wikipedia not a WP:SOAPBOX, but your edit violates WP:NPOV, since the notion of "discrimination" is contested in the sources. --Nug (talk) 11:24, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously SOAP and POV have different meaning in your book, time for RFC then.--Kathovo talk 12:08, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: The article is really messy and requires cleaning up.
Dbreagornks (talk) 22:44, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs cleaning up