Talk:Symbolism (arts)

message: not getting into the poe discussion here, but I scanned the original page and I just wanted to point out that there were English-speaking and -writing Symbolists more or less contemporary with the rest of the European symbolists. Two of them are Canadians, although the Americans like to try and annex them as well: Bliss Carmen and Charles G.D. Roberts (I could have the GD initials wrong but cross reference with animal stories and you'll find the right fellow.)
Astonished.
hy
:Probably should be added; I've tried to make it clear that although it began as a French movement, it was not exclusively French.  Some of the more important writers were Belgians writing in French.  I wonder if we have articles yet on Olive Custance, Max Beerbohm, Richard Le Gallienne, or Ernest Dowson; them and the Yellow Book crowd are the names I think of first when considering Symbolist writing in English. Smerdis of Tlön 18:01, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I know that Lorrain hung out with the same crowd; there's a famous portrait of him painted by I think Fantin-Latour, a Symbolist painter.  I would be sceptical that his work is within the mainstream of Symbolism, but poems by him appear in several Symbolist anthologies, including Delvaille's and the Houston's.  Smerdis of Tlön 18:01, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

text: Oscar Wilde's Salome doesn't convey a sense of the malign power of sexuality? DionysosProteus (talk) 23:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  anglophone symbolists 

message: This article seems to cover the literature of the symbolists, but I would like to know why the theatre aspect hasn't been treated in this artical. I am talking about theatre directors, theatres dedicated to giving symbolist plays, symbolist performances, and symbolist "theatre language", not so much the theatre authors. I know this was a very small chapter of history, consisted of private theatres that met with failure, and yet for theatre students it's a chapter to be taken to consideration. Is there any reason why this aspect hasn't been included in this article?
:Lack of information?  I don't know a great deal about Symbolist theatre, apart from Pelleas et Melisande and Villiers de l'Isle-Adam's Axel.  FWIW, his article is also a pitiful sub-stub.  Smerdis of Tlön 02:03, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Symbolism is a major part of twentieth-century theatre; not just Maurice Maeterlinck, Oscar Wilde's Salome, or Yeats's plays, but Edward Gordon Craig many, many Russians. It's a major part of Constantin Stanislavski's development, and you could trace the origin of his 'system to the inner-directed influence of his experiments with Symbolist staging. Vsevolod Meyerhold developed Symbolist theatre before he turned to constructivism. This section needs much more development and probably ought to spawn its own article. Added to the to-do list, but might be a while. DionysosProteus 23:13, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbolism in theatre 

message: I've added a  template feel free to add new articles to it. Stirling Newberry 00:33, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modernism template 

message: :As example of symbolism's influence on contemporary mass culture, it should be noted that prominent postmodern artist Michael Jackson, who named Claude Debussy as one of the sources of his inspiration, composed works that have traits of symbolism and impressionism (for example, Stranger In Moscow, 1995).
I moved this to talk, because I suspect it's original research.  The claim that Jackson claims to have been influenced by Debussy is something I'd like to see some kind of source for; as is Jackson's relationship with "postmodernism", whatever that meant.  
Jackson's life strikes me ans being decadent, surreal, and full of odd twists; I'm not entirely closed-minded about some kind of referenced allusion to Jackson in the article.  He does strike me like someone that Oscar Wilde should have written a novel about.  If Jackson belongs at all, he probably ought to appear in the Aftermath section.  Mass culture that relates to Symbolism in a more sure-footed way would include the recordings of Patti Smith, who's still going on about Rimbaud; and the goth movement might be an echo of some aspects of Symbolism.  Smerdis of Tlön 23:11, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Michael Jackson]]? 

message: I have think that the Symbolist painters page is redundant.  At one time, this article was focused exclusively on Symbolism as a movement in poetry; it has expanded to compass Symbolist theatre, Symbolist influence in music, and as such I tend to feel that having the Symbolist painters as a separate article is no longer strictly necessary, especially given that the Symbolist painters, like the poets, are often identified simply as "Symbolists."  
Unless anyone has strong objections I propose to merge and redirect them.  Smerdis of Tlön 15:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good job, Ihcoyc: a wise merge, to bring to bear in one article all the media through which symbolism was manifest. --Wetman 16:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merger from [[Symbolist painters]] 

message: The way symbolism is presented in this article may have to be adjusted. I'm thinking of a perspective that is more chronological, rather than after-the-fact. I find this chronological perspective in works such as Arnold Hauser's The Social History of Art. Quote:
:"After 1890 the word "decadence" loses its suggestive note and people begin to speak of "symbolism" as the leading artistic trend. Moreas introduces the term and defines it as the attempt to replace reality in poetry by the "idea" (Le Figaro, 18th September 1886). The new terminology is in accordance with Mallarme's victory over Verlaine and the shift of emphasis from sensualistic impressionism to spiritualism."
I think such a chronological treatment would be better, emphasizing for example that many of these poets (Baudelaire, Nerval, Rimbaud, early Verlaine etc.) were writing before any such "symbolist movement" existed. Rimbaud was essentially appropriated by the Symbolists. A is putting the smack down (talk) 07:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Symbolism's presentation

message: I was planning on adding something about Symbolism's impact on the Beat Generation especially Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac.  I wanted to get a good source first, just ran out of time, so I figured I'd post it here in case there are any objections before, as is often the case, somebody erases it without explanation.  Also, and probably more significantly, I wanted to put something in about literary surrealism.  There's a mention of surrealism in the visual arts, but, as anyone beyond a casual observer should know, surrealism started as a literary movement very heavily influenced by symbolism.  Symbolism is, arguably, the movement most directly labeled as an influence on surrealism by Andre Breton -- especially if you add in Jarry and Lautreamont (though I didn't personally think of them as being symbolists, but I won't argue).  The phrasing of the section where surrealism in the visual arts is mentioned doesn't lend itself easily to re-editing.  I would think putting surrealism with modernism would make sense but modernism is separated from visual arts by big chunks about symbolism's impact on other countries.  I would suggest putting the visual arts section right after the modernism section, but then it's splitting up the lit.  Any suggestions for how to more logically reorganize this so that we can include literary surrealism (which I would argue is one of the most significant ommissions from the page).F. Simon Grant (talk) 16:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Influence on literary surrealism and beat

message: I think this article could be considerably improved by adding an explanation of why symbolism in literature (I'm only interested in prose) is not just another name for allegory - the representation of an abstract idea, principle or concept by a character, figure or event in a narrative. How does Symbolism differ from that? Cottonshirtτ 12:11, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is this not just allegory? 

message: This article cannot be reached from any place except a link that happens to be somewhere else in Wikipedia. That is because the parentheses used in the title are not compatible with browsers (Firefox and Chrome) and cannot be interpreted by PmWiki, and possibly other wiki engines and blogs. Please remove the unnecessary parentheses that make this good article inaccessible. Redirects from other formulations; such as, Symbolism Arts, or Symbolism Painting, would also do the same job.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jagtig (talk • contribs) 18:01, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article cannot be reached from any place except a link...  

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Symbolism (arts). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20020802071729/http://artmagick.com/default.aspx to http://www.artmagick.com/default.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:58, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: — Assignment last updated by Englishbulldog2023 (talk) 00:45, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Honors English 250H VL1