Talk:AFL Grand Final

message: I know nothing about AFL but I just saw Dame Edna on TV and they showed a clip of her singing. Maybe there should be a list of people who have sung at the game.--Gbleem 05:32, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assorted old comments 

message: I think there should be some mention of the premiership flag - after all that is what the premiers really win, and it has huge symbolic importance. I also believe that the premiership cup is a much more recent invention. Any opinions? Albreda 10:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Premiership Flag 

message: I think that the crowd for the 2006 final was not impeded by the mcg redevolpment. (as stated in the recent history section)
Any comfirmations? Johnwrw 08:47, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 97,400 was the crowd figure given on WA radio Gnangarra 08:36, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The redevelopment 

message: I've removed the reference to the Brisbane Lions being the first club to win 3 Premierships in a row. Collingwood won 4, Carlton and Melbourne (twice) also won  3 Grand Finals on the trot. See here. ComaDivine 21:48, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brisbane Lions 

message: This table needs to be cleaned up to either add the nicknames after the teams that dont have them or remove them from the teams that do. Lynx Raven Raide 01:44, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nicknames on Recent History of AFL Grand Finals 

message: The entire decade of the 1980s is skipped omitted for no obvious reason.  Given the great grand finals include the 83/84/85 Hawthorn/Essendon battles, and the 1989 Geelong/Hawthorn contest, it seems odd to miss the whole decade. Aujoz (talk) 07:55, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  1980s ignored 

message: What is the provenance of this statement With an official attendance of 97,302 at the 2007 AFL Grand Final,[2] is also the largest domestic club championship event in the world. There have been bigger crowds at Odsal Stadium and Stadium Australia for RL championship matches for starters. Typical kick 'n' Giggle hubristic onanism perhaps? Albatross2147 23:52, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All the statement does is say that it is the best attended, which it is currently.  This is mainly because the MCG is the biggest stadium.  --Spewmaster 22:40, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. It is incredibly stupid to compare figures for this years grand final with the largest crowds in other places throughout history. The most attended event currently is the criterion addressed in that sentenc, best attended ever is another criterion altogether. If we are talking about all of history, we also need to include the 121,000 at the 1970 AFL grand final. I don't know where that stands in a worldwide ranking, but it definitely beats Odsal and Stadium Australia. As Spewmaster says, it is all about the capacity of the stadium at the relevant point in time. JPD (talk) 10:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Onanism? 

message: Does it count as a meeting, like if the drawn game was a meeting, does the replayed game count as the same meeting? I don't think it does but I wanted another opinion  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.12.139.111 (talk) 07:29, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  2010 draw 

message: What time does it start?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.180.180.86 (talk) 01:58, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Start time 

message: There is no pic of the trophy! Like the ICC World Cup page. 116.240.160.200 (talk) 14:35, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trophy? 

message: I assume most people who access this page just want to see who won a grand final on a particular year.
There are lists of attendance for every year, norm smith medalists for every year.
Even entertainers for every year.
I would have though the first thing to be added would be list which TEAMS played, and which team WON. That is the point of the grand final after all.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.121.144.94 (talk) 02:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of winners 

message: Call me crazy, call me mad, but I would have thought that in amongst all these lists of who sang at the final and which television networks carried the game somewhere there would have been room for a list of the finalists and scores of each match. If you look closely there is a link at the bottom to the List of Australian Football League premiers - but given that the term "premiers" for a league's final position is largely unknown outside Australia, it won't help the majority of readers. At the very least, the link needs to be in a more prominent position; preferably, however, there needs to be a section in the article actually detailing the winners and finalists! Grutness...wha? 07:15, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Tiny'' oversight 

message: I just want to put it out there that I think this article is a mess at the moment (May 2012). Personally, I think it should be demoted from B-Class to C-Class until significant improvements can be made. A specific list of problems I have are given below:
*The "game history" section starts by re-covering a lot of the Early VFL Final systems content; in the middle section, it covers a lot of the Melbourne Cricket Ground history section; by the end, it just becomes a prose re-statement of the results. (I recognise that all of those bits are important for explaining the Grand Final in context, but there's too much of it, and not much else). This section is most notable for a nearly complete absence of references.
*"Notable Grand Finals" is just another prose re-statement of the results - but I think it's a valid one which I think works well, although it lacks references.
*"Recent grand finals" is another prose re-statement of results.
*"Qualification and prize" is a good section. To the point, and doesn't re-hash the AFL Finals system article.
*"Premiership glory" is for the most part flowery, non-encyclopedic original research.
*"Premiership cup", "the Flag" and "Prize money" are all okay, although there is a hanging reference to 'the current cash prize' which doesn't make it clear which year is referred to.
*"Brownlow Medal" has no context where it is, and a "Grand Final Week" section needs to be created to give it context.
*"Grand Final Parade" - no need for a list of year-by-year parade crowds. Just needs a few examples in the prose to give an idea of the order of magnitude.
*"Entertainment" is now a large enough list that it can be broken out into its own article (as is the case for List of Super Bowl halftime shows)
*"Traditional songs" is no longer valid. Not sure when that tradition died, but presenting it as such is now false. Still worth including in the article, but needs the dates.
*"Grand Final sprint" is a valid discussion, but again I'd move the list to its own page – simply because in the grand scheme of the AFL Grand Final, nobody cares who won the sprint.
*"Venue and schedule" works well, but could be further up the article.
*"Numbering of Grand Finals" is important, but could be presented better, and as part of the "game history" section.
*"Norm Smith Medallists" - a description of the Norm Smith Medal is valid, but the list of winners is not because this is already found in Norm Smith Medal.
*"VFL/AFL Grand Final records" is fine.
*"Attendance" and "metropolitan viewers" could do with a reword, but is generally okay.
*Missing from this article is a discussion of the presentations (and that thing with the Auskick children presenting medals), the Grand Final breakfast, the motorcade, rules regarding replays, the team photo, and various other relevant events.
*Just generally, the organisation of the article is jumbled, jumping from the prize and trophy down to the Grand Final Week events, then to some more history discussion, then back to the presentations with the Norm Smith Medal.
I'm going to start working on some of the changes that are needed, but this list is here for anyone else who feels like contributing. Aspirex (talk) 00:37, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not B-Class 

message: Most wins is incorrect as it states Carlton alone has the record, the site referenced to "prove" this is factually inaccurate as Essendon is listed as having 14 premierships when it is actually 16.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.246.207 (talk) 13:19, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No it's perfectly correct. The reference isn't saying Essendon have 14 premierships, it's saying they have won 14 grand finals. They didn't contest a grand final when they won the comp in 1897 and 1924. See links. Jevansen (talk) 01:00, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Most wins

message: The history section of this article still has a very serious structural issue – in that the first few sections talk about the evolution of the match as an occasion and institution (e.g. when the MCG capacity was expanded, when the finals series changed, when it began receiving television coverage); but, the last few sections are doing nothing but restating results in prose. There is a need to keep the whole history section consistent in content, but really after the 1980s there isn't much left to say about the occasion, is there? Aspirex (talk) 08:36, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to let everyone know in advance, I'm finally working on the major restructuring of this article that I've been dreaming of for the last seven years, so expect big changes soon. I'm trimming out a lot of the parts that just restate results. I'm setting clearer guidelines for inclusion in the 'notable grand finals' section and finally adding references to it. I'm forking sections which clog the page (the sprint, the grand final records). I'm finally including a description of the 80s push to move to VFL Park (the most significant part of the game's history which has previously gone undescribed), and fleshing out the AFL Grand Final location debate article to do so. I'm working through a big update to references throughout (although I'm coming up short in a few areas). And probably a few other things. Aspirex (talk) 20:13, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Aspirex (talk) 01:29, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on AFL Grand Final. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110614115117/http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=23&pg=715&st=183 to http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=23&pg=715&st=183
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110707072810/http://www.abc-for-kids.com/news/stories/2005/09/23/1467076.htm to http://www.abc-for-kids.com/news/stories/2005/09/23/1467076.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151004132825/https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/29707384/record-crowd-for-afl-grand-final-parade/ to https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/29707384/record-crowd-for-afl-grand-final-parade/#page1
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/music/afl-says-meat-loaf-just-couldnt-sing-at-grand-final-performance/story-e6frf9hf-1226179362143
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mcg.org.au/default.asp?pg=historydisplay&articleid=46
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090826093855/http://www.afl.com.au:80/international%20broadcast%20partners/tabid/14533/default.aspx to http://www.afl.com.au/international%20broadcast%20partners/tabid/14533/default.aspx
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The location for the AFL Grand Final page says that it was always played at MCG, but on the 2020 & 2021 AFL Grand Final pages says the correct location of the Gabba (2020) and Optus Stadium (2021)?? 
Agree. There is no explanation as to why ... attempted to but it was removed --Rulesfan (talk) 04:16, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stadium location 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: no consensus. Relisting unlikely to result in a different outcome. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 20:26, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I take no issue with this as part of a broader encyclopedia-wide downcasing activity, and the last one was fairly strong in consensus. Have any previous RMs proven more controversial on the subject? Aspirex (talk) 22:55, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

text: Done some research into other RMs of this nature. I support the moves, MOS:CAPS is fairly clear that a 'substantial majority' of references need to capitalize for WP to capitalize; and when I researched major media references I found around 50% caps (including the AFL , Herald Sun  and Channel 7 ) 50% not caps (including the Age , Guardian  and ABC ). I do prefer the caps as a personal style and have always used them in the past, but the policy looks clear, hence I support blanket move. Aspirex (talk) 02:13, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The REAL problem is that the proposer made claims about usage EVERYWHERE, including Australia, that were simply wrong, ESPECIALLY in Australia. They were sloppy, sweeping generalisations. They were possibly correct in some cases, but definitely not in all cases. So Australians got cranky. You won't win a debate by getting your facts about Australia wrong, no matter what the merits of the rest of your argument. HiLo48 (talk) 10:48, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I made no claims about everywhere.  The Australians Cinderella157 and Tony1 seem to agree with my observations and proposals. Dicklyon (talk) 12:23, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The massive list at the start of this discussion suggests otherwise. You obviously couldn't have researched each one. HiLo48 (talk) 23:12, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I researched many; didn't claim all.  The only one I found that was consistently capped in sources was the ITTF World Tour Grand Finals, so I left that one alone.  For rugby and footy, they don't seem to be capitalized so much. Let me know if you see otherwise. Dicklyon (talk) 09:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I really can't be bothered. And that's the problem. Your list was too long. The idea that every single one of the items in the list needed changing, all at the same time, just seemed wrong, to me and, I'm sure, to others. HiLo48 (talk) 10:11, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, maybe I over-interpreted some comments at the RM discussion at Talk:1902 VFL grand final that implied they'd be happier not to just look at one group, but work on consistency across many.  Whatever. Dicklyon (talk) 11:18, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 11 January 2023