Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Slovenian vs Slovene)

message: Has this already been voted on as a policy (as distinct from article talk space straw poll/discussion), or is it here as a policy proposal?  While it looks fine to me, it might be prudent to flag it accordingly.  Alai 04:54, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree this ought to be a Proposal  until there is a clear wikipedia:consensus for this to be a guideline under Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions --Philip Baird Shearer 11:00, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Status of naming convention

message: The citation of the article by Dr. Edward Gobetz, under "Published works", should be removed because:
(1) The article is a personal expression of opinion, not a serious treatment of the subject. It is not authoritative by any reasonable standard, and should not be cited as a Wikipedia reference. 
(2) The article was pasted into a Wikipedia talk page about the controversy, and can be found on the above-mentioned
Archive 2.
Surely the Wikipedia talk page is the proper place for this article, rather than as a citation.
24.178.228.14 (talk) 18:02, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modify the Reference Section 

message: Copied from my talk page. --Eleassar my talk 17:07, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's ok, although several linguists prefer to use 'Slovene' for the ethnicity/language and 'Slovenian' for the country. Otherwise, it's just better to link to 'Slovenia' instead of 'Slovenes' in the lead of biographical articles, because it's the nationality that should be included in the opening paragraph per Wikipedia's style guidelines (MOS:OPENPARA). --Eleassar my talk 11:57, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of people have interesting notions about word forms like this. I've never been able to find any clear pattern, although some have claimed there's a noun/adjective difference, or a UK/US difference, or an archaic/modern difference. I really can't see empirical evidence for any of the theories. (It reminds me of a guy that used to teach political science at the University of Chicago who insisted that a Serbian was someone from Serbia, whether ethnically Serbian or not, whereas a Serb was someone that was ethnically Serbian, regardless of where he was from. It was certainly internally consistent, but without much basis in actual usage and nobody could remember which way he wanted it.) Doremo (talk) 12:10, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. I just wanted to stress that this is not my invention, it has been around for some time and has been proposed and supported by some respectable linguists as well as by Wikipedians at Talk:Slovenes#Requested move. Otherwise we had a very long conversation regarding this in 2005 at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Slovenian vs Slovene) (tagged as historical). If nothing else, the markup Slovenian is much simpler and evident than Slovene, therefore more in line with WP:LINKS that demands clear linking. --Eleassar my talk 12:38, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It will probably never be settled to everyone's satisfaction. Some people have very strong/emotional opinions on the issue (for one of the many questionable distinctions above), whereas others don't have any preference but would like consistency, at least within individual articles. My objection to both Slovene and Slovenian in the same article is that it looks like the writer can't make up his/her mind. If the markup Slovenian is strongly preferred then perhaps the adjective Slovenian should be used everywhere in such an article. Doremo (talk) 13:03, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

text: This would mean unnecessarily using piped links at other places, when talking about Slovene language and Slovenes. The preferred choice is probably 'Slovenian' for the country and 'Slovene' for the ethnicity/language, because a) it is used by respectable authors; b) goes most in line with Wikipedia's guidelines, and c) has already been supported by Wikipedians, as shown above. Anyway, you may take the discussion to Wikipedia:WikiProject Slovenia or some other appropriate place if you think necessary. --Eleassar my talk 13:10, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with Slovenian 'from Slovenia' vs. Slovene 'ethnicity/language' is that is creates an artificial distinction apparently based only on personal opinions. Many respectable authors do not make such a distinction. (It's like trying to create a rule for Eng. plow vs. plough, or for Sln. zdaj vs. sedaj.) I won't pursue the issue further because I'm satisfied with either form, but using both forms in one article just looks sloppy, not precise. Doremo (talk) 13:22, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

text: I don't have an easy answer. If forced to choose, Slovenian seems more appropriate for Wikipedia's articles to me, especially because it is more frequently used. I'd like to see some consensus before changing templates like . Till then, the spelling will remain inconsistent based on the ethnicity/country distinction, and I'll keep with it, for the sake of consistency. --Eleassar my talk 13:58, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there are worse things in the world than a little inconsistency. As a distant relative of mine (Ralph Waldo Emerson) once observed, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." :-) Doremo (talk) 14:13, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

text: Yes, but it was demanded by you that the consistency regarding 'Slovenian' and 'Slovene' is established in individual articles, and it does not look any less sloppy if the alternate spelling remains due to the template. On the other hand, if 'Slovene' is given preference, the link to 'Slovenia' becomes less intuitive. Something will have to be given up, and I think that it would be best to sacrifice the consistency in individual articles for better clarity. --Eleassar my talk 15:41, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the template prevents total consistency. However, I'm not willing to argue the Slovene/Slovenian battle with other editors, especially because both forms are acceptable to me. I don't think Slovene is a less intuitive link to Slovenia (it's just as clear as German < Germany or Swiss < Switzerland). I've also got no further objection (beyond creating inconsistency) to an editor writing Slovenian here and there, unless it's based on the idea that it means something different than Slovene. Doremo (talk) 16:12, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

text: It doesn't seem to me that 'Slovene' is as associative as 'Slovenian' in regard to 'Slovenia', although a native English speaker most surely can judge this better. I do think, however, that the distinction between 'Slovenian' as used for the nationality and 'Slovene' as used for the ethnicity/language is a useful one, as pointed out in the previous paragraph too, and its usage has been endorsed by the community, even though it's an artificial one, not supported by dictionaries. --Eleassar my talk 17:22, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: We should be cautious about endorsing artificial linguistic distinctions in WP (whether useful or not) if they aren't actually consistently used in real language. Doremo (talk) 20:02, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Slovenian/Slovene

message: See Google n-grams that Slovene is more common in the present day.
Or check the frequency of these forms at http://skell.sketchengine.co.uk/run.cgi/skell
Epheson (talk) 09:07, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Google n-grams 

message: I don't really care which is used as long as it is as consistent as possible... and since Slovenian is used more by people I'd use that.
Slovenia vs Slovenija - the international word usually used is Slovenia (although my passport/id card/drivers license all use Slovenija) but in the country Slovenija is the correct name. In practice it doesn't matter, you can use either as the country name when sending mail from other countries and it will arrive.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benzo expert (talk • contribs) 19:55, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opinion from someone who is a Slovenian 

message: We are encouraged to keep internal consistency within articles: Naming conventions are not applicable to articles that use "Slovene" or "Slovenian" in the body text only. For these articles, either term is allowable, as long as its usage is consistent.
However, the template IPA-sl makes this impossible, as it forces Slovene into articles which otherwise use, for the most part, Slovenian.  (eg, in the article Tadej Pogačar, Slovenian is used throughout, except for the note on pronunciation of his name in the lead)   Can this be remedied?  Kevin McE (talk) 09:59, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA-sl