Talk:Survivor: China/Archive 1

message: As a note, this article went through an AFD a few months ago. I was the nominator. It was nominated because it was created before it was announced. Now, five months after, the application is up on CBS's website (see the reference in the article), which is why I have recreated the article. TeckWizTalkContribs# of Edits 20:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Note

message: The Variety article only says that filming will be in China.  No mention of the name for the 15th season in the article.  While Survivor: China, is a reasonable guess at the name, it's only a guess.  The name of the article should only be changed when the title of the season is confirmed. -- Gogo Dodo 06:42, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd just like to point out that sometime the correct name is not used and it's the common name that is the article title Cingular Wireless comes to mind first.  most people are already refering to this season as Survivor: China.  I don't see any problem in doing it too.  EnsRedShirt 08:10, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but Cingular Wireless is the company's former established and official name set by the company itself.  This season of Survivor has yet to have it's official name released, so it should not be changed until then.  While I understand people calling it Survivor: China since "the next season of Survivor" is rather clunky, "Survivor: China" is not it's official name.  We don't know what it is.  It could be "Survivor: Orient" or "Survivor: Outer Mongolia".  Well, okay, the last one isn't likely =), but still the point is we don't know the name. -- Gogo Dodo 03:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Gogo Dodo. Amazon was filmed in Brazil, but called Amazon. Anything could happen, though not likely. Still, it shouldn't call it Survivor:China. --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 03:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The point is not what is "suitable", but what is correct.  If you just wait 5 more days, you won't need to continue this discussion. -- Gogo Dodo 06:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Season Name 

message: Hey VG just posted the official logo. I stink at editing pics in so if anyone could do it that would be great! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.245.166.195 (talk) 00:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's the logo, but I can't seem to make the jpeg work in the actual article.  http://www.survivorfever.net/images15/s15_cbs_logo.jpg  Can someone else figure it out?  Sisco, 10.06, 15 May 2007. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.8.1.2 (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The official logo has been edited in!  We should all give VolcanicGlass a big thank you for finding it.  I have now added it to the infobox.  UWAFanatic05 20:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks guys! Yay VG!!! This is my fave logo! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.245.166.195 (talk • contribs) 
For the part on: "Unlike the previous seasons, the “Outwit, Outplay, Outlast” slogan in the show's logo has been replaced by Chinese characters. According to the blog Shanghaiist.com, the characters translate to: Compete in intelligence (比智慧, bĭ zhìhuì), compete in skill (比技巧, bĭ jìqiǎo), compete in endurance (比耐力, bĭ nàilì)." Do we really need the fact that Shanghaiist.com translated the text? It's a translation so do we really need a citation for that? Anybody out there versatile in Mandarin Chinese and English can do the same. I'm simplifying the paragraph and removing the need for a citation.리지강.wa.au 14:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official Logo 

message: Some Wrestling news sources are reporting that Ashley Massaro will be on Survivor  although it is pretty much just complete speculation at this point. Either way, watch out for vandals on this page (I see some have already added this "breaking news") -- Scorpion0422 23:49, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been reverted three times already as you noticed, but all were in good faith.  Haven't seen any vandalism about it.  At least not yet.  I notice that an editor has put a warning on her page.  Might be something to consider if things get out of hand, though I do notice that warnings still don't stop people. -- Gogo Dodo 00:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe an HTML note about it? --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@(Let's Go Yankees!) 00:26, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wrestling fans are usually like this - give it a week and they will all forget about it and then this page will for the most part be left alone. Although on a side notw, I hope it's false (and it probably is, but you never know) because she is REALLY annoying. -- Scorpion0422 03:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added in the warning  that Nikki311 added to the Ashley Massaro article.  Hopefully we can remove it in a couple of weeks. -- Gogo Dodo 04:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

text: That article seems to have the exact same source as all of the other reports, so it really isn't comfirmation. -- Scorpion0422 00:31, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: This article does not read to me as "will be on Survivor" - it's very highly speculative rumor and not yet appropriate to post on WP. --Masem 13:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Um, no one said that "you guys" were wrong, or that Ashley would not be appearing on Survivor.  Wikipedia's threshold for information is verifiability, not truth.  The concerns raised here about the information have not been related to whether or not Ashley will be on Survivor, but whether or not there is a credible source that says that she will.  As for the information you've listed, I'm having difficulty finding that story at PWInsider, even though a number of wrestling news sites have credited them with the story.  Can you provide a link to the source of the information, so that we can determine how credible it is?  If the source is similar to the previous one, a site reporting a fan's reporting on his encounter with a wrestler who gave information about another wrestler's non-wrestling career, it will likely not merit inclusion in the article.  --Maxamegalon2000 19:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Here's an article from prowrestling.com.  I know next to nothing about wrestling, but our article on Dave Meltzer seems to indicate that his Wrestling Observer Newsletter is a fairly reputable source.  I definitely think it's possible for the identity of a contestant to be leaked beforehand to a point that it's verifiable for our purposes; is this enough?  --Maxamegalon2000 01:48, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Online pro wrestling sites basically just shoot in the dark and speculate a LOT. They never cite sources and many of their articles are based on hearsay and "secret sources" and most of their "reporting" is just copying what other sites are saying. Meltzer usually isn't considered a good enough source for wrestling related articles, so I see no reason why that should be any different now. -- Scorpion0422 01:51, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: That's fine - as long as it's from a reliable "survivor" spoiler site and cited, I'm cool with it.  Those that had kept posted it always used the wrestling fanboards or left it uncited, which is why it kept getting removed. --Masem 23:33, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Just a small warning

message: Why is there a protection template on the page? Someone should get it removed so it can be edited for the results of each episode? User:ScottAHudson
:First, we're nowhere close to the premiere of this show, so it's not that we need to be able to edit it yet.  However, the current edit protection is due to anonymous IP people that keep wanting to add in this piece about this wrestler that may be on the show based on highly speculative information.  To avoid people posting wild speculation, the edit protection has been enabled; once we're close to the show's start date and when the cast will be revealed, the protection will be gone. --Masem 13:42, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, it is only a semiprot - established registered WP users can edit the page freely.   It's protection against anonymous IP, basically. --Masem 13:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The semi-protect is set to expire at Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:06:18 GMT. -- Gogo Dodo 16:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article's Protection

message: Are the tribe names listed for the China article true? User:ScottAHudson
:It's uncited, so I removed it. -- Gogo Dodo 18:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tribe Names 

message: Heck yeah its true
I have the proof:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/6/1244678/survivor.jpg
what ???????? told you i wasn't lying. Please leave me a messege user: polarbear12345
That photo, of course, is from SurvivorFever.net, and I do wonder if it is in fact verifiable enough to include in the article, even if prefaced by "According to an image provided to SurvivorFever.net" and not included in the infobox. --Maxamegalon2000 19:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Its True!

message: Hey guys i uploaded the Zhan Hu tribe flag!!!!
User: polarbear12345
:Unless you are or have permission from "BlindFreddy", you should not have done so.  The image has already been tagged at Wikimedia Commons, and will be deleted in seven days if the license is not corrected.  If you are not or do not have permission from "BlindFreddy" to upload the photo, you should probably tag it for speedy deletion before then. --Maxamegalon2000 20:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Uploaded The tribe flag

message: I want to see more of the article please.
:There's not much more we know.  It seems to be filming now, but I've seen no spoilers that can be added to Wikipedia. If you really want to know more, you can try a site like Survivor Sucks that does post a lot of spoilers. --Masem 02:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More facts about this season

message: We know there's information that is being found out through spoilers about this season (like the possibility of that wrestler being in the case, and the color and names of the tribes), but by WP:V, forum boards are not verifiable, even if those of us editing know that in the past these boards have always been correct.    Thus, we cannot add information about the tribe colors or flags, or identity of the contestants, until a more reputable source, most likely CBS as they have done in the past about a month before the show airs, reports this information.  --Masem 19:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you are going to have to live with it.  Just because it is boring to you does not mean that content should be added, especially if the content is unverifiable or not reliable.  I recommend that you just wait for the season to start or when the official CBS Survivor: China website is released.  There will be plenty edits by then and I'm sure that you won't be bored. -- Gogo Dodo 03:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding new information 

message: I know it can't go in until a reliable source is found, but one of the rumoured contestants is Amanda Kimmel, Miss Montana USA 2005 and Miss Earth USA 2006. If this is legit, she will be the fourth Miss USA/Miss Teen USA contestant to appear on Survivor (Danni, Janu, Kim Mullen, Misty) PageantUpdater  talk • contribs  07:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you check TDT, he has the entire cast spoiled, and pictures for 13 of the 16 contestants.  However, since nothing is official until the cast announcement, none of them can be used in the article.  We can't and shouldn't post speculation and spoilers, only verifiable fact that has been released by CBS, Mark Burnett, or Jeff Probst. StrandedKSig 21:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, that makes three rumoured contestants who already have pages, and a fourth who will likely get one as soon as the series airs... I know this isn't a forum, but I hate that more than half of the contestants these days either live in California, are models, or are somehow involved in the entertainment industry. -- Scorpion0422 21:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm with you on that, Scorpion. It's the real people that build the ratings, not the super-pretty or famous ones. ~~ THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 08:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumoured contestant... 

message: Where on the website does it say that they will be revealed on August 20? ScottAHudson 19:48, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just wondering the same thing, can anyone veryify? Survivorfan101 07:25, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I looked, it doesn't say a word about any announcement.  So I removed it. -- Gogo Dodo 07:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contestants Announcement 

message: What about the pictures of Survivor contestants? It would be boring without those pictures.
You know, like putting them on the contestant charts. We used to have them on the charts, but you removed. You like boring? I don't.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.37.140.79 (talk) 23:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose that would be OK if you could find free content photos of all 16 contestants, but I doubt that's very possible. --Maxamegalon2000 23:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No pictures of the Survivors 

message: The "KIDNAPPING" twist is confirmed by TV Guide Channel (a RELIABLE source) hope your happy
here is the link http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/survivor-china/cast/289524
WHY isn't anyone answering me?????????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.10.219 (talk • contribs) 
:We did add the twist to the article already, but we can add that link as that's a bit more visible than the video part of TV Guide Channel. --Masem 13:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Confirmed by TV Guide Channel

message: I noticed that the Chinese characters for the two tribes are in Traditional Chinese. But China uses simplified characters. Can anyone add the simplified characters in the article? Or should I do it myself? - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 11:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I originally inserted the simplified characters , but someone else changed it to traditional characters, but I didn't bother to change it back. In any case, I think a picture somewhere does show the tribe names in simplified characters, so I'll go change it back. 리지강.wa.au 13:36, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would stick to what is shown on the flags, even if it does vary from modern glyphs used in the language.  We don't change "Ye Olde Shoppe" to "The Old Shop" when its a proper name used in articles, I would say the same here. --Masem 13:45, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would take note: China (as well as Malaysia, Singapore and some Chinese-speaking communities) uses simplified characters. The rest of the world, including Hong Kong, Macao, and Taiwan use traditional characters. But the emphasis here is China. That's your observations, Masem and Sandstorm! - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 11:26, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the characters on the flag are Simplified characters. This  shows the Zhan Hu flag. Simplified characters would be 战虎 and Traditional characters would be 戰虎. From comparison, the characters are indeed Simplified versions, so I think we can safely keep to that. 리지강.wa.au 14:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is probably the final change to the tribe's Chinese names since they are confirmed. Zhan Hu is in simplified characters (战虎). As for Fei Long, Fei is in traditional characters (飛), and Long is in simplified characters (龙). Both were sourced from the intro sequence, and I'm assuming that those are as official as it gets. 리지강.wa.au (의논하다|기여) 12:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you saying that the official name for Fei Long using characters is a mix of traditional and simplified characters? That's messed up. Illusionz (talk) 02:43, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fei Long in Traditional characters would be 飛龍, and 龍 is probably difficult to squeeze in. Conversely 飞, which is the simplified version of 飛, looks very.. I don't know.. empty, or too simple looking? So maybe that's why they went for a mix. 리지강.wa.au talk 17:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese characters for the tribes. 

message: To the anon IP that keeps on adding that we have a Survivor that's 21 in this season...
WP:TRIVIA frowns strongly on trivia sections.  Survivor articles in the past had huge swaths of trivia, including one page dedicated to stats like the oldest, youngest competitors, so forth.  These have pretty much all been removed, basically because all the information needed to figure these out is readily available from existing contestant tables (it may take some work, but its there).  What we want to keep as trivia are things that don't necessarily qualify in the usual coverage of the show, but cannot be known by the average person unless given an insight (Via interview or article) to what occurred.  Example: Fiji's gov't had a coup 2 days before the end of the season but it didn't affect production.  That's the type of trivia that's appropriate for WP (and has been integrated into appropriate parts of the article for Fiji's season), as you can't tell this from the show alone, and there are sources to back this up.  
However, knowing that this season has the youngest Survivor in its history falls into what I call "historical trivia" which are the types that can be determined from the current sources on WP.  If that can be done, its not worth adding it to the article, and this has helped to keep the trivia sections of other Survivor seasons down. --Masem 23:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unnecessary trivia 

message: Is it necessary to have the background of the cell the tribe colour of each person in every table because I find that it makes the table hard to read? That's just me though - zachinthebox (User • Talk) 11:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been that way for the past seasons. -- Gogo Dodo 15:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know we've done it in the past, but after dealing with too many colors used in both the Top Chef and Hell's Kitchen tables, and after reading Accessibility guidelines in using color, AND with the annoying appearance of the China tribe colors on the screen, I'd argue that we may want to consider another way .  Maybe borders to make it easily identifiable without going blind?  --Masem 00:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Like Gogo Dodo said, it's been that way in the past and there has been no trouble until now. I think it makes things easier to read, for example the Survivor: Panama "The Game" table looks alot better now with colours compared to when the background was all clear. 3bay sam 13:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Masem is right that I shouldn't have just dismissed the comment as "it's the way it's been".  But I still don't think the use of colors is overdone except for perhaps the Voting history table and even that is not too bad.  I think the colors really help The game and Contestants tables since it gives a quick visual on what is happening and the contrast is good enough (I think) for those with color issues nor does it convey information only through colors.  I don't think there is gratuitous use of colors like say the Hell's Kitchen or The Amazing Race Results tables (which doesn't work if you're color blind). -- Gogo Dodo 05:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's two approaches I'm trying in a sandbox.  One is to border the boxes with colors, leaving the center black on white.  Haven't gotten a working result yet.  The other approach is to simply use a lighter color of the tribe color so it's obvious but that you don't have to switch to a white font to make it readable.   I'll post links if I get something decent. --Masem 05:29, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that maybe if we changed the actual font colour to the tribe colour instead of the background it would be more visually appealing. But this might not work for yellow. - zachinthebox (User • Talk) 10:43, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tribe Colours 

message: that there will be a final 3 this season, again???? oh my gosh can somebody help me?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.24.13 (talk) 01:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Jeff Probst has stated that there would be a final 3 again this season Survivorfan101 11:32, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wonder how that'll play out with 16 castaways, i'm guessing the final four will go for two days instead of one. Does anyone know if it'll once again be a 9 member jury? 3bay sam 13:57, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The jury will start with the final 10, so there will be 7 jury members and a final three.  Probst has stated this.64.8.1.2 22:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not a place for discussion about what could happen. That honour goes to the blogs that have sprung up around the internet. However, if you have a source stating your ideas, then you could give it to us so we can reference it in the article. THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 22:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this true?

message: I am removing the 'Finish' column from "The Game" table.
* This info is already in the contestants table
* It is easy to figure out from the episode order
I recommend that each Survivor season's tables have the same change applied.
-BullWikiWinkle 00:16, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I oppose this, because the Game table is supposed to be an easy summary of the game, and it tells how many days a contestant survived. I have reverted you, and please do not re remove the info unless some kind of conensus is reached. -- Scorpion0422 01:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've got mixed opinions on this.  While it is nice to have everything in a compact table, I can understand removal of duplicate information.  I lean towards keeping the columns as is.  I agree that consensus needs to be reached. -- Gogo Dodo 03:23, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The information is relevant for both the Contestant and Game tables. I oppose any removal of information; make it easier to keep track of it all. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 09:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove duplicate 'Finish' info 

message: It looks like it says that she voted for Dave, which would make the vote 5-2 for an Ashley elimination, not a 6-1 vote.  Can someone verify what vote she made?  64.8.1.2 22:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Verified as a 6-1 vote. -- Gogo Dodo 22:48, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What was Jaime's Vote?

message: I removed the empty column for the next episode in the Voting History table yet again because it serves no purpose.  There is nothing in the column, unlike the future episode rows in The Game table.  While I understand that some people are excited about the next episode and are pre-loading the table, the empty column serves no purpose.  This empty column habit is new to this season and was not done in previous seasons.  Unless somebody has a good reason to leave the column, I think that removing the empty column is a proper thing to do. -- Gogo Dodo 01:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  There's no reason for it to be there until there is info for the next episode. BullWikiWinkle 16:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Next episode's empty column in Voting History table 

message: HAE DA FUNG
That's some reasonably compelling evidence.  However, Wikipedia:Reliable Sources requires something more substantial.  Note that I'm not saying the merged tribe isn't called Hae Da Fung.  It looks like it is, but we need a better source, unfortunately. --Maxamegalon2000 01:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's ok, my God another "Black" buff, i actually would actually like it if the merge color is white. I guess we just have to wait for CBS or TV Guide announces it, it's still fun to know it before hand. Thanks again!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.85.240 (talk) 02:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

text: The new tribe name was awful...They want to name it as Black-fighting-wind, but 黑打風(Hei-Da-Feng is the correct pinyin) sounds extremely weird in Chinese... also they spelt it wrong...If they named the tribe as "Hei-Xuan-Feng", it will sounds cool in Chinese. On the other hand, Da Fung means typhoon in Cantonese Chinese, and PG's parents were from Hong Kong, where a Cantonese-speaking place. Why doesn't she know that...Oh my god...--HeiChon 15:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, but maybe they are just ignorant. They are not linguists, you know. Also, Peih-Gee has been living in America for a long time, this is why she didn't remind them. Just my opinion. - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 00:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The "literal" translation of Black Fighting Wind would be 黑打风 (traditional: 黑打風), based on Jean Robert's idea. 黑大風 is "Black Big Wind", which wouldn't even be grammatically correct in Chinese. It's likely that Jean Robert doesn't know pinyin, but Hae Da Fang is pretty close I guess, since Feng is pronounced very close to Fang (a as in father). And by the way, typhoon in Cantonese is toi feng (台风, Mandarin: tai feng), so even if Peih Gee knew Cantonese, she wouldn't have noticed the mistake. 리지강.wa.au (의논하다|기여) 21:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry I typed wrong. I mean 黑打風, not 黑大風. In Cantonese, typhoon is not only written in 颱風(Toi Fong/Fung, not Feng) but 打風(Da Fong/Fung) also has the same some meaning. Maybe 打風 is a regional term.--HeiChon 19:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged Tribe 

message: In this article, as well as any other Survivor article that doesn't contain last names in the elimination notes section, I would like to add last names and actual names, if any, of any castaway, such as Chicken, who's full name from the contestant chart states Steve "Chicken" Morris. ScottAHudson 19:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why?  I don't see any particular advantage to that besides making the section longer.  Since first names are used in all other places (summaries, voting history, etc.), I don't see why the elimination notes should be any different. -- Gogo Dodo 20:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Gogo Dodo, the full names are already in the contestants table, so it would just be a bit too repetitive. I noticed some anonymous user for deleting the last names from this section on other survivor wiki pages (such as Survivor: Borneo) and i think just the first name is appropriate here Survivorfan101 08:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Last Names for The Players In the Elimination Notes Section