Talk:List of bus routes in Manhattan

message: This company operated the following routes:
*M7 Wall Street Express to 110th Street via Madison Avenue (Park Row/Pearl Street, presumably the Avenue B Line to Union Square, then somehow to Madison) - this was essentially brought back as the x23, now the x90, in the mid-1970s
*M8 Grand Street Crosstown
*M9 Avenue B
--NE2 13:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Avenue B and East Broadway Transit Company]]

message: This guide shows the routes in 1916.
;New York Railways
 shows the routes ca. 1940.
*1 (M25): Fourth and Madison Avenues Line
*2 (M25): Fourth and Madison Avenues Line from Astor Place
*3 (M21): Lexington Avenue Line to 130th
*4 (M21): Lexington Avenue Line to 146th
*5 (M23): Sixth Avenue Line
*6 (M22): Broadway to 59th Street Line
*7 (M22): Columbus Avenue Line
*8 (M24): Sixth Avenue Ferry Line combined with part of Seventh Avenue and Brooklyn Line
*9 (M24): Seventh Avenue and Brooklyn Line, cut back to near Union Square
*10 (M41): Eighth Avenue Line, Cortlandt to both north branches
*11 (M42): Ninth Avenue Line combined with part of Broadway and Amsterdam Avenue Line or Sixth and Amsterdam Avenues Line, probably in 1919 when the 8th and 9th were split
*12 (M2): Metropolitan Crosstown Line
*13 (M16): Eighth Street Crosstown Line
*14 (M17): 14th Street and Williamsburg Bridge Line
*15 (M18): 23rd Street Crosstown Line
*16 (M19): 34th Street Crosstown Line
*17 (M4): N/A, operated by 1923
*18 (M5): 86th Street Crosstown Line, bus a bus was operated by 1923
*19 (M6): N/A, operated by 1923
*20 (M20): 116th Street Crosstown Line
*21 (M10): Avenue C Line
*22 (M10?): N/A?
*M1: Madison Street Line
*M3: N/A
*M7: N/A
;Eliminated
*Bleecker Street Line, in 1917
*Broadway and Amsterdam Avenue Line, probably in 1919 when the 8th and 9th were split
*Canal Street Crosstown Line
*Sixth and Amsterdam Avenues Line, probably in 1919 when the 8th and 9th were split
;Second Avenue Railroad
The ca. 1940 map labels these in the "transfer system" box.
*M11: Astoria Line?
*M12: N/A?
*M13: N/A?
*M14: First Avenue Line?
*M15: Second Avenue Line
;Third Avenue Railway
*M8: Grand Street Ferry Line
*M9: Avenue B Line
*M100: Kingsbridge Line
*M101: Third Avenue Line
*M102: 125th Street Crosstown Line
*M103: 59th Street Crosstown Line
*M104: Broadway Branch Line
*M105: Tenth Avenue Branch Line
*M106: 42nd Street Crosstown Line
;Eliminated
*Broadway and 145th Street Line, eliminated 1947
*East Belt Line
*Grand Street Line, eliminated 1932 (over the Williamsburg Bridge; Grand Street Ferry Line remained)
*Post Office and Brooklyn Line, eliminated 1932
*West Belt Line
*28th and 29th Streets Crosstown Line
*110th Street Line
--NE2 13:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The "ca. 1940" bus map was actually put out in 1947.  The photo on that map is of a bus numbered 1773, which was one of the GM "Old Look" TD-4506's built for NYC Omnibus in 1946.  NYCO's 22 was franchised as M-45, the Pitt and Ridge Streets line (they had taken over that route from Triangle in 1940).  21 had alternating franchise numbers, M-10 and M-40.  Also, as the Third Avenue Transit/Surface Transportation routes, on a 1943 Bronx map of buses and trolleys, had all route numbers that, in the cases of the streetcar lines, would later be converted to buses, one wonders if the numbers associated with the Manhattan bus routes STS ran were assigned years before their "bustitutions," and if so, what would the Broadway-145th Street line have been "numbered"? ——Wbwn (talk) 20:34, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes in all routes between 1916 (streetcars) and later (buses)

message: According to : "Back in the 60's, 126th Street had an M-13 that was a shuttle bus that operated during rush hours between the Journal American plant on South St. and the Chambers St. IRT/BMT station." --NE2 16:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The M13 Journal Building line as such was begun some time between 1954 and 1957.  Until then both it and the M15 were the First and Second Avenues lines, ever since the June 4, 1951 conversion of First Avenue to one-way northbound and Second Avenue to one-way southbound (prior thereto M13 was First Avenue only, and M15 Second Avenue only).  This shuttle service lasted until May 1966 (this would have been after the demise of the Journal American, along with the Herald Tribune and World-Telegram & Sun, before the ill-fated merger as the World Journal Tribune), was briefly revived (as M15S?) in 1970 and then discontinued for good in 1971.  (Sources:  1954 and 1957 Hagstrom Manhattan bus maps, 1957 Fifth Avenue Coach Lines bus map, and 1966 Chase Manhattan bus and subway map.) –Wbwn (talk) 05:29, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: M13 in Lower Manhattan?

message: Dates may be off by a week or two.
*late July 1917: Bleecker Street Line (last horse line; no buses)
*July 1, 1918: Fordham and Woodlawn Line
*October 10, 1918: Brooklyn and North River Line
*April 6, 1919: 42nd Street Crosstown Line over bridge
*June 3, 1919: East Belt Line (storage battery)
*August 8, 1919: 28th and 29th Streets Crosstown Line (storage battery; no buses)
*September 21, 1919: Sixth Avenue Ferry Line (storage battery), Chambers and Madison Streets Line (storage battery) (M1), Spring and Delancey Streets Line (storage battery) (M2) (restored February 1, 1920), and Avenue C Line (storage battery) (M10)
*March 24, 1921: West Belt Line (storage battery)
*September 4, 1921: Jerome Avenue Line
*September 20, 1930: 110th Street Crosstown Line (storage battery; no buses)
*May 20, 1931: Spring and Delancey Streets Line (storage battery) (M2)
*January 21, 1932: Post Office Line over bridge and Grand Street Line over bridge
*July 31, 1932: Avenue B Line (last storage battery line)
*September 3, 1932: Grand Street Line (M8) and Post Office Line (no buses)
*June 26, 1933 (official opening): Second Avenue Line (M15), First and Second Avenues Line (M14?), and York Avenue Line? (M11?)
*February 1, 1935: Fourth and Madison Avenues Line (M25) (first Green Lines trolley to go)
*February 16, 1935: 65th Street Crosstown Line (M7) (not a streetcar)
*November 12, 1935: Eighth Avenue Line (M41) and Ninth and Amsterdam Avenues Line (M42)
*February 12, 1936: Broadway Line (M22) and Broadway and Columbus Avenue Line (M22)
*March 6, 1936: Seventh Avenue Line (M24) and Eighth Street Crosstown Line (M16)
*March 12, 1936: Sixth Avenue Line (M23) (trolley ended at 4th Street; bus extended to Fulton Street)
*March 25, 1936: Broadway and Lexington Avenue Line (M21) (was this still on Broadway?)
*April 1, 1936: 34th Street Crosstown Line (M19) and 116th Street Crosstown Line (M20)
*April 8, 1936: 23rd Street Crosstown Line (M18)
*April 20, 1936: 14th Street Crosstown Line (M17) (last NY Railways trolley)
*June 8, 1936: 86th Street Crosstown Line (M5) - however there was already an 86th Street bus (last Green Lines trolley)
*June 22, 1936: 79th Street Crosstown Line (M4), 96th Street Crosstown Line (M6), and Spring and Delancey Streets Line (M2) (NYCO acquired these? gave NYCO a network of 16 routes - or 16 crosstown routes?)
*August 5, 1941: Willis Avenue Line and Harlem Shuttle
*November 10, 1946: 59th Street Crosstown Line
*November 17, 1946: 42nd Street Crosstown Line and Tenth Avenue Line
*December 14, 1946: Broadway Line
*May 18, 1947: Third and Amsterdam Avenues Line
*June 22, 1947: Kingsbridge Line
*June 29, 1947: 125th Street Crosstown Line and Broadway and 145th Street Line
*August 16, 1947: 149th Street Crosstown Line
*October 25, 1947: 180th Street Crosstown Line, Ogden Avenue Line, and University Avenue Line
*January 24, 1948: 207th Street Crosstown Line and Bronx and Van Cortlandt Parks Crosstown Line
*June 26, 1948: 163rd Street Crosstown Line
*July 10, 1948: 138th Street Crosstown Line and 167th Street Crosstown Line (four Bronx lines bustituted; only four remained)
--NE2 20:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bustitution dates

message: This is from       :
;Franchises
*M-2 Spring and Delancey Streets
*M-4 Seventy-ninth Street
*M-5 Eighty-sixth Street
*M-6 Ninety-sixth Street
*M-16 Eighth Street
*M-17 Fourteenth Street
*M-18 Twenty-third Street
*M-19 Thirty-fourth Street
*M-20 116th Street
*M-21 Lexington and Lenox Avenues
*M-22 Broadway and Columbus Avenue
*M-23 Avenue of the Americas
*M-25 Fourth and Madison Avenues
*M-40 Houston Street-Avenue C
*M-41 Eighth Avenue and Central Park West
*M-42 Ninth and Amsterdam Avenue
*M-45 Pitt and Ridge Streets
*BxQ-19 Bronx-Queens via Triborough Bridge
*MQ-25 Manhattan-Queens via Triborough Bridge
*M-62 Manhattan-Wards Island via Triborough Bridge
*M-26 West Thirty-third Street-Pennsylvania Station
*M-27 Broadway
*M-28 St. Nicholas Avenue
*M-29 Edgecombe Avenue
*M-30 East Ninth and Tenth Streets
*M-31 Jackson Heights, Queens
*M-32 Morningside and Convent Avenues
*M-33 Riverside Drive
*M-34 Fort Washington Avenue
*M-35 West Fifty-seventh Street and Eighth Avenue
*M-36 East side of Mount Morris Park
*M-37 Thompson and Bleecker Streets
*M-38 East Fifty-seventh Street
*M-39 East Seventy-second Street
*M-43 West Fifty-seventh Street and Twelfth Avenue
*M-44 Lewisohn Stadium
*M-46 West 122d Street loop
*M-47 Seventh Avenue Extension
;Transit Authority
*M-1 Madison and Chambers Sts Crosstown
*M-3 Forty-ninth and Fiftieth Sts Crosstown
*M-7 Sixty-fifth St Crosstown
*M-11 York Avenue (Fifty-seventh St to Ninety-second St)
*M-15 First and Second Aves (from Chatham Square and South Ferry to East 124th St)
;Avenue B and East Broadway Transit Co
*M-8 Grand St Crosstown (from Franklin D Roosevelt Drive to Ave of the Americas)
*M-9 Ave B (from East Broadway and Chatham Square to Union Square)
;Fifth Avenue Coach Division
*1 Fifth Ave
*2 Fifth and Seventh Aves
*3 Fifth, St. Nicholas and Convent Aves
*4 Fifth and Fort Washington Aves
*5 Fifth Ave, Riverside Drive and Broadway
*6 Seventy-second St Crosstown
*15 Fifth Ave-Queensboro Bridge-Jackson Heights
*16 Elmhurst Crosstown (Queens)
*19 Fifth Ave-Riverside Drive
*20 Fifty-seventh St Crosstown
;Omnibus Division of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines (21 routes)
*1 Fourth and Madison Aves (via Park Ave)
*2 Fourth and Madison Aves (via Madison Ave)
*3 Lexington Ave
*4 Lexington and Lenox Aves
*5 Ave of the Americas (Sixth Ave)
*6 Broadway and Seventh Ave
*7 Broadway, Columbus and Lenox Aves
*10 Eighth Ave and Central Park West
*11 Ninth and Amsterdam Aves
*12 Spring and Delancey Sts Crosstown
*13 Eighth St Crosstown
*14 Fourteenth St Crosstown
*15 Twenty-third St Crosstown
*16 Thirty-fourth St Crosstown
*17 Seventy-ninth St Crosstown
*18 Eighty-sixth St Crosstown
*19 Ninety-sixth St Crosstown
*20 116th St Crosstown
*21 Houston St and Avenue C Crosstown
*22 Pitt and Ridge Sts
*TB Triborough Bridge
;Surface Transit Lines
*M-100 Broadway-Kingsbridge
*M-101 Third Ave-Amsterdam Ave
*M-101 Third Ave (Ninety-Sixth St to Sixth St)
*M-103 Fifty-Ninth St Croastown
*M-104 Broadway
*M-105 Tenth Avenue
*M-106 Forty-second St Crosstown
;New York Times errors in 1962 list
I have a few points to raise regarding The New York Times' 1962 lists of bus routes characterized as "Fifth Avenue Coach Division," "Omnibus Division of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines" and "Surface Transit, Inc." as published during the March 1962 TWU strike against Fifth Avenue Coach Lines, Inc., that resulted in the city stripping the company of all their routes and placing them under MaBSTOA auspices:
*The references to 3 - Lexington Avenue and 4 - Lexington and Lenox Avenues were erroneous, as both were discontinued July 17, 1960 with the one-way conversions of Third and Lexington Avenues, and M-101's southbound route moved to Lexington.  Thus, at the strike's onset, there were 19 Omnibus Division (ex-NYCO) routes in service, as opposed to the 21 The Times mentioned.  Neither NYCO route was "combined" into the M-101 in 1960; the 4's route north of 116th Street served as an extension of NYCO's 1 and 2, the latter of which, ironically, would be rerouted back to Lexington and Third via Lenox in 1969 as M-101A. 
*Fifth Avenue Coach Lines, upon the City's efforts to seize all their routes, properties and assets during the March strike, maintained that they held the franchise to FACCo's Route 1 - Fifth Avenue (which had been operating only once a day since the late 1950's) in perpetuity, and prevailed upon a judge to legally prohibit MaBSTOA from resuming its service (you may want to search The Times for the date they did so).  Thus, the end of FACCo's 1 was March 1, 1962 –- not January 14, 1966 when Fifth and Madison Avenues became one-way, and therefore only NYCO's 1 was running at the time of such conversions, to be moved southbound along Fifth between 135th and 40th Streets, hence there was no "combining two routes into a one-way pair" in this case.
*Also on March 1, 1962, Surface Transit's M-105 - Tenth Avenue and NYCO's Route 22 - Pitt and Ridge Streets were discontinued (neither route was mentioned at the point service on the ex-NYCO and Surface Transit routes resumed March 23, 1962); while FACCo's 19 was discontinued and, upon resumption of six of the remaining FACCo routes by March 30, 1962, was absorbed into FACCo's 5. –Wbwn (talk) 10:53, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: 1962 list

message: June 28, 1914 
:"is operating a line up Fifth Avenue from Washington Square to 135th Street;
:"on Seventh Avenue from 110th Street to 135th, with occasional buses going as far north as 145th Street,
:"another across Fifty-Seventh Street from Fifth Avenue to Broadway and thence to Riverside Drive and 125th Street by Broadway and Seventy-second Street,
"and a spur line from Fifth Avenue to The Pennsylvania Station."
July 13, 1917  - Fifth Avenue Coach had been operating temporarily from 135th Street [and Broadway?] to Broadway and 169th Street;  October 13, 1918 - Washington Heights wanted operations to continue
Fifth Avenue Coach began operating across the Queensboro Bridge on July 9, 1925 under a permit issued July 1, 1925. 
November 1930 :
;Fifth Avenue Coach Company
*57th Street crosstown
*York Avenue from 72nd to 92nd
Another company?
March 25, 1932 :
;Requested by New York City Omnibus Corporation (actually went to Avenue B and East Broadway Transit Company)
*17 Avenue B, Broadway via Park Row, East Broadway, Clinton, Avenue B, 14th to 1st
*18 Grand Street, East Street via Grand, 6th, Canal, Vestry, Greenwich, Desbrosses to West Street and the Hudson River
These seven crosstown routes were operated by the city until 1932?:
*96th Street
*86th Street
*79th Street
*49th Street
*Delancey Street
*Chambers Street
*Avenue C
December 16, 1932 (one-year) :
;Green Lines, 6 crosstown in Manhattan
*M-1 Madison and Chambers Streets
*M-2 Spring and Delancey Streets
*M-3 49th and 50th Streets
*M-4 79th Street
*M-5 86th Street
*M-6 96th Street
;Hamilton Bus Corporation
*Avenue C?
;Fifth Avenue Coach Company
*20 existing routes, including Convent Avenue, St. Nicholas Avenue, Riverside Drive, Broadway, Fifty-seventh Street, Edgecombe Avenue, Eighth Avenue, Mount Morris Park
January 13, 1933 (one-year) :
;Avenue B and East Broadway Transit Company
*Grand Street
*Avenue B and East Broadway
;Triboro Coach Company (Queens)
*Astoria-Woodside (Q18)
*Astoria-Corona (Q19)
*Maspeth-Woodside (Q24?)
;Green Bus Lines (Queens)
*101st Street and Jerome Avenue (Q8)
;North Shore Bus Company (Queens)
*Flushing-Little Neck (Q12)
*Flushing-Bayside (Q13)
*Flushing-Whitestone (Q14)
*Beechhurst (Q15)
*Bayside Avenue (Q16)
*Corona-Ditmars Avenue (?) then operated without franchise
*Flushing-Bayside West (?) then operated without franchise
Numbers are not in the article.
February 6, 1933 (began operation then; not clear if they were franchised - but "bus operation on three additional franchise routes authorized by The Board of Estimate and The Transit Commission" - December 1932?) :
:Note: "The Fifth Avenue Coach Company, whose original franchise from The State Legislature applies only to operation on Fifth Avenue"
;Fifth Avenue Coach Company
*Edgecombe and 155th to Columbus Circle via Edgecombe, St. Nicholas, Manhattan, 110th, Riverside, [unknown crosstown street], Broadway
*157th and Broadway to 110th and 5th via Broadway, 155th, St. Nicholas, Manhattan, 110th
*157th and Broadway to Washington Square via 157th Street, Riverside, 72nd, Broadway, 57th, 5th
The third is 19; the first two were presumably 17 and 18. Franchise numbers may have been M-29, M-28, and M-27.
The company also realigned the St. Nicholas Avenue Line (25th and 5th to 181st and St. Nicholas) to use Convent and Morningside between 113th and 152nd. This was franchise M-32.
February 28, 1933 (25-year) :
;East Side Omnibus Corporation
*Five routes, presumably M-11 to M-15
March 1933 :
;Green Bus Lines, 6 crosstown routes in Manhattan and 3 routes in Queens
*Madison-Chambers Streets
*Spring-Delancey Streets
*Forty-ninth and Fiftieth Streets
*Seventy-ninth Street
*Eighty-sixth Street? not included in the list but might have been left out accidentally
*Ninety-sixth Street
;Hamilton Bus Corporation
*Avenue C-Desbrosses Street Ferry
This is not the full list.
December 22, 1933 (25-year)  :
;Fifth Avenue Coach Company
*Jackson Heights (M31? already existed?) 
Others?
;New York City Omnibus Corporation 
*Spring and Delancey Streets (M2)
*79th Street (M4)
*86th Street (M5)
*96th Street (M6)
*Eighth Street (M16)
*14th Street (M17)
*23rd Street (M18)
*34th Street (M19)
*116th Street (M20)
*Broadway (M22)
*Seventh Avenue (M24?)
*Lexington Avenue (M21)
*Lenox Avenue (M21)
*Columbus Avenue (M22)
*Sixth Avenue (M23)
;Madison Avenue Coach Company
*Fourth Avenue (M25)
*Madison Avenue (M25)
;Comprehensive Omnibus Corporation
The East Side Omnibus Corporation was also assigned 25-year franchises by Tammany around the same time. 
Numbers are not from the articles.
February 11, 1935  :
;Comprehensive Omnibus Corporation
*65th Street (new)
*Madison-Chambers (existing, by Green)
*49th-50th Streets (existing, by Green)
October 4, 1935 (10-year) :
;Eighth Avenue Coach Corporation
*Eighth Avenue, Greenwich Street and West Broadway to Polo Grounds
*Ninth Avenue, 14th Street to 125th Street and LaSalle Place
Numbers were assigned to franchises in December 1932; also see , which calls the three proposed ones "Route 11", "Route 12", and "Route 13". (Those ended up as M-11 to M-15.) I have no idea how 65th Street managed to be M-7. But the others fit relatively nicely: --NE2 19:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History of franchises

message: Should we add the late night  shuttle bus? It's on the bus map, but not too sure about scheduling or depot assignments. Pacific Coast Highway {talk • contribs} 00:30, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's probably a good idea. Essentially it would be listed as 135th Street to 148th Street–Lenox Terminal, late nights only. --NE2 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lenox Terminal Shuttle 

message: I removed the list of the routes. There is no need for them. If one wanted a list of every single route in Manhattan, then they should go to the website. Not here. Because of this, this page is no longer a list, and I have moved it to Bus routes in Manhattan. I'm fairly certain I shall be reverted, but I had to try. i said 05:50, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If not for the "history" column, I might agree with you.  The history of each bus line is definitely encyclopedic, and at that point, the other columns serve to distinguish one line from another, via a general description of their routes.  It's actually a pretty good list, going very far beyond a mere directory.  And can one really say that an article titled "Bus routes in Manhattan" is complete without at least a limited list of those routes?  Just because someone compared this list to the far-poorer List of Egged bus lines does not make it unencylopedic by association.--Father Goose 20:22, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Was this an attempt to get the Egged list deleted? I have reverted. --NE2 10:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I came upon this as a result of that discussion, but it has nothing to do with it. And the history column is a mild bit of information but I don't particularly see it as enyclopedic or worthwhile. Yes one can say an encyclopedia article on Bus routes in Manhattan is complete without a list of every single route, where they run and some irrelevent history about them. i said 08:50, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How exactly is the history of several bus lines irrelevant to an encyclopedia article about said bus lines?-Father Goose 15:42, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The history of each individual line is irrelevant because on the whole, the history is not of interest. If it was, then it would be included; but it would be its own article if this were true. i said 22:02, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand exactly what you're saying, but the gist seems to be that you don't care about the history of the routes so they're not important. --NE2 02:00, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text:  that list has to go - we are WP:NOT a travel directory! --Allemandtando (talk) 16:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  My removals 

message: Is there a better way to list the numerous m-b routes that don't travel into Manhattan? (Did the best I could.) - 
SkipperRipper (talk) 04:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: List of express and multi-borough routes (?)

message: I'm proposing a standard format for route tables across all pages. You can read it here. Comments are appreciated. Pacific Coast Highway {talk • contribs} 01:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revising bus charts 

message: As with most articles in the WP:NYCPT project dealing with buses, unless there is more than one livery per article for routes of one carrier (i.e., Select Bus Service, Bee Line's Shuttle routes, and GO Bus), there should only be one pic to introduce the article, with the route number clearly visible. I will be changing all of the articles to match this. This article requires at most 3 pics---one MTA, one RIOC, and one Downtown Connection.--AEMoreira042281 (talk) 05:39, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introductory Picture 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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