Talk:Seung-Hui Cho/Archive 1

message: Why has none of the media pointed out the shiny "magic triangle" that is clearly visible on the murderer's forehead in his student photo? This triangle has occult significance and may indicate a connection (real or fictional) to South Korean militant extremists like Seoul Freemasonry. I understand that Wikipedia articles are not a place for speculation on such connections before they are established by official sources, but I hope that the alternative media (blogosphere) will get to work on this important issue---just as soon as the day's quizzes, party photos, political flaming, pseudo-science, and general wannabe-preening are posted. Thanks! 69.250.43.106 00:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh.. before you get too carried away, someone should point out your "shiny magic triangle" is just glare from the camera flash on his sweaty forehead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.130.9.41 (talk) 01:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: yeah definitely, now is not the time for some stupid conspiracy theory, its definitely a glare.Wraith12 07:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the post is sarcasm (case in point: "just as soon as the day's quizzes, party photos, political flaming, pseudo-science, and general wannabe-preening are posted"), relating to the fact that the poster believed that the concept of "Links to terrorist organizations" (Was that at one time part of the article? I'm assuming so) seemed ridiculous to the poster. J0lt C0la 16:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links to terrorist organizations? 

message: I suspect it's a bibilical reference--Genesis 16:12: "And he shall be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him".--Pvednes 08:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the relation between Genesis 16:12 and Ismail Ax? There is no mention of Ismail Ax anywhere in the English bible 212.108.17.165 12:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Genesis 16:12 is the prophecy of Ishmael, and Ismail is an acceptable alternate spelling of Ishmael. Plus, 16:12 seems to work in the context of an amok. Keep in mind this is all just speculation on my part. It could also have something to do with the name Ishmael/Ismail--"God will hear"...ax? --Pvednes 13:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh, puleeze.  Speculation indeed, and racially charged to boot!  "Koreans are known for coveting luxury goods and designer names."  Sounds a lot like "African-Americans are crazy about fried chicken and watermelon" to me.  This kind of speculation is truly offensive and has no potential to add anything to the quality of the article.  It doesn't belong here.  Also, please don't forget to sign your posts with  ~~~~ .  Cmichael 21:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ismail Ax

message: Jack Thompson claims video games are common among these things. Any info if Seung Hui played?
Video of Mr Thompson talking about this shooting on Fox news here: http://kotaku.com/gaming/jack-thompson/
:It's likely, given the fact that the guns were apparently purchased relatively recently and he had quite a high accuracy rate with smaller handguns. However, leave that for the police to speculate on first and WP to report later. -MissingNOOO 18:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fail to see how a video game that doesn't involve holding anything more than a keyboard and a mouse or trackball could improve one's accuracy with an actual handgun. Perhaps one could make a case for Duck Hunt though... BillG | Talk 20:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: You're suggesting that proficiency with handguns and intention to buy weapons are a likely result of being a gamer. I recommend following your own advice and withhold speculation. Mr. Thompson is skilled at using tragedies to gain media attention and I'd like to see this issue completely shelved unless a direct factual link is demonstrated.--Kwizatch 19:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that is not something I'm suggesting at all. I'm a pretty hardcore gamer myself, and do not own any sort of gun or firearm, nor do I have any shooting accuracy last time I checked because I was a terrible shot last time I tried to shoot (my realm of game playing falls mostly under fighting and role playing games; being a gamer is not the same as being an FPS gamer, something some people -- especially anti-game pundits -- do not seem to understand). However, few people have accuracy that good without a good bit of practice, and light guns provide enough accuracy training that it's effective even if it isn't optimal (some militaries provide some amount of training this way). Regardless of Jack Thompson's situational opportunism and the facts I can pull out of my butt, though, the only "factual link" is that the vast majority of people who play even violent games do not go around actually shooting people with guns. Either that, or GTA series sales have been overexaggerated. -MissingNOOO 20:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see, you originally suggested that Cho was proficient with handguns despite not owning the guns very long and not having much chance to practice because he may have had some "training" with lightgun type games. I happen to think this is a stretch; I'd attribute it to close quarters firing, blocked exits, (Cho apparently used chains to block doors) and lots of ammo. I think my original point is valid: the only link to video games here is by Thompson, who is a questionable source. --Kwizatch 20:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not going to discuss this any further, but please quit twisting my words. I don't have an agenda here, and neither should you. -MissingNOOO 17:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I'd like to ask everyone not to continue this discussion unless they feel they have something more constructive than this to contribute. --Kizor 21:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This whole topic is pretty asinine by itself. I can't stress how ignorant and ridiculous it is to believe that a game, using buttons and thumbsticks, could some how contribute to the careful planning of locking 30+ students in a building and then executing them. Yes, it is a tragedy that affects us all. But using this as a way to gain fame and money for a Crusade against the video game industry? That in itself is a crime. My previous statement was satirizing the whole idea of video games linking to violence. If this was the case then there would be 13 million murderers running wild, as per the number of copies of GTA: Vice City sold world wide. If this was the case then you'd see a massacre much larger than this. Instead of just realizing that the kid had problems we as humans instead try to pass the buck onto other things. Humans will never admit that they are wrongs, probably because we are all arrogant, pompous, prideful jerks. Who's fault is it for this tragedy? A videogame or the criminal's instability? Must we continue the unbelievably immature accusations? As long as we have people like Jack Thompson around, capitalizing on tragedies we will never be able to really confront these troubles, stopping them before they happen. SonnyCorleone 21:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Though Sonny's statements have no place here, he's still correct.  Jack Thompson is not someone to be taken seriously, and there is little to substantiate his claims that video games cause violence; not to mention quite a lot of statistical evidence to the contrary.  There is absolutely no valid reason to include this in the article unless something comes to light about it, like a journal entry where he says "I practiced for six hours in Counterstrike today... it's almost like real life" or something to that effect.  Until then, there is no point to discussing this because it's inconsequential and not remotely encyclopaedic. Ennuified 22:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Haha. Cursing rather unnecessary but its a common sentiment felt by many gamers. Thomson just exploits situations for his gain everytime. MrMacMan Talk  00:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: How does it teach you how to point and pull the trigger? I'm pretty sure a child could point a gun and pull the trigger. The difference between pointing and pulling the trigger and shooting with accuracy is training and motivation. Saying pulling a 360 controller's trigger and a gun's trigger is similar is plain stupid. There is no way playing a game leads to anything with real guns. It can't train, can't motivate, and can't desensitize. Cho Seung-hui wouldn't be able to plan the massacre, start it, and finish it with precision and accuracy by playing a game. He'd have to rehearse this in real life since a game does not come close to reality. It saddens me that Jack Thompson will call a disturbed man innocent because he's got a vendetta against video games. SonnyCorleone 02:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Did he play video games?

message: If the NY Times is not a reliable source, who is? //THF 13:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Either way, we are an encyclopedia, and we need corroboration on such a statement. I'm redirecting this to the article for now. --Golbez 13:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: That looks like a NYT Blog link rather than a vetted, published story.  Looks a bit speculative at this point.  Even so, why should he have an article?  Is he notable beyond the shooting?  If not, then he can be discussed in the partent article --StuffOfInterest 13:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Charles Whitman has an article; this will be an article eventually, too, almost certainly.  And it's in the main Times now.  And ABC News. THF 13:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Media outlet

message: In light of the recent events, is the crime-related stub picture really appropriate? 136.165.46.150 13:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do agree about the symbol for the crime related stub.  Can we find another? If nothing else, out of respect?--Witchzilla 13:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I fixed it. THF 13:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you. --Witchzilla 13:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stub picture 

message: Until we have exact birth date, format should follow guidelines at WP:Date section 1.9. Use c. 1982. Ronnotel 13:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth date format

message: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=%22Cho+Seung-Hui%22&btnG=Search
It appears there's no mention whatsoever of this person on the 'net, by their full name. So much for the Facebook hunting people had done.  --  Zanimum 13:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Somebody who has a Cyworld account should search him up (not the American one). Korean people are more likely to use Cy so the chances that he would use Facebook is less. Try Cyworld . Mumun 無文 14:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Searched cyworld and couldn't find his page. Korean newpapers say his family imigrated into the States when he was 2 year old. EDIT: he moved to the States when he was 8. Pessay 15:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Web search 

message: It doesn't bother me enormously, but is there any need for the last sentence saying "According to a press conference on April 17, officials identified Cho as being 23 years old." ? I mean, when I read it I felt as though it doesn't flow well with the rest of the article, as in it looks really weird to have it there and worded thus, and is also kind of redundant since we know his date of birth and death anyway. F. Delpierre 14:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This was only added when his exact year of birth was unknown, and was speculated as 1982 or 1983. John Stattic 14:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age 

message: I'm a big fan of US spellings for US topics (and British for British topics) but for crying out loud the Virginia city is spelled CENTREVILLE. Stop changing it to "Centerville."  Moncrief 14:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think its the US vs. UK spellings -- its the fact that the media has the name of the town wrong. MSNBC says 'resident alien with a residence established in Centerville, Va. '... against CenTERville does not exist in virginia... but we having an edit war now because of it. MrMacMan Talk  14:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I used to live about five minutes from Centreville, and my office (where I'm entering this) is about ten minutes away via Route 66. I can attest that the name is, truly, Centreville! It has a strong little Korean community west of the intersection of 29 and 66, but overall it's a lame cross between Manassas and Annandale... Thomasmallen 14:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: WHY do we have an edit war over something that is verifiable?  The city is spelled that way. Can people please verify that on their own? The wrong way has a red link, for pete's sake!!  Moncrief 14:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually you didn't bother to verify that he was from the much more well-known city of Centreville by checking any number of news sources, insisting on a news source in which the name was spelled incorrectly. The fight was wholly generated and perpetuated by you. Moncrief 15:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not my job to vet your sources, it's my job to work with what I'm given. You're the one who constantly mis-cited a source. I suppose I was so busy preserving our treatment of the source that I lacked the time to check otherwise, so maybe I'm lazy too. --Golbez 15:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The source itself was a mis-cite.  I take a broader view, which is getting accurate information into an article rather than being pigheaded about an obvious misspelling in one news source.  Moncrief 15:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yet you refused to find a better source, so who's being pigheaded? --Golbez 15:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Washington Post isn't a "better source"?  Moncrief 15:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What does the post have to do with this? When I was fighting you, the only source was MSNBC saying Centerville. I apologize for getting emotional, but you did the same thing; if it was so obviously a typo, then you could have *easily* (apparently) found a better source. You simply refused to believe that Centerville existed. --Golbez 15:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: WP:CIV and WP:COOL, please both of you. THF 15:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Apology accepted. Moncrief 15:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Damm this guy doesn't live too far from me! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.188.204.2 (talk) 15:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok... but every media source says he lived in Fairfax look at a map here. CenTERville is not in the north east section of the state. see map here. So -- again -- I'm pretty sure its cenTREville MrMacMan Talk  15:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: He lived in Centreville.  I live in the same neighborhood.  The spelling may be silly and an affectation, but that is how it is spelled.  And lest I be accused of contributing original research, please, anyone, check google maps or yahoo map or any map at all, using the zip code of his much-publicized high school.  He was in the Fairfax County public school system, and that means CenTREville. The article should not reflect "confusion" when there isn't any; MSNBC was just typing too fast. --Lisasmall 19:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well in hindsight, why didn't anybody look up zip code, mapquest, atlas, map, or any other similar independent sources other than related media articles? --Kvasir 00:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Centreville

message: I don't think it could be the cause, but it appears that Cho received a speeding ticket last week.  To verify, go to the Virginia General District Court Case Information System and select "Montgomery County General District/Blacksburg", then on the next page select "Traffic," and then search for "cho, seung". --Ryanaxp 15:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is, otherwise CNN wouldn't have mentioned it. --Kvasir 01:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I think it should go in. It could have relevence to his state of mind. Most people don't like getting tickets. Ikilled007 21:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Speeding is pretty common though... 132.205.44.134 21:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not relevant, in the state of Virginia any speeding ticket is pre-payable to avoid appearing in court, so long as the person ticketed was not going over 20mph of the posted speed limit or over 80mph which he was not doing either. If he paid the ticket before the court date, he would not need to appear. I know this being from VA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AcePuppy (talk • contribs) 23:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mentioning about the speed ticket doesn't necessary mean linking it to the shooting. It could be worded as: Cho has no prior criminal record other than a speed ticket blah blah blah." That way it simply stated as fact not leading to any conclusion. --Kvasir 01:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speeding ticket 

message: As a reference with all discussions video for factual events is always warranted with that being said, why was the video that is posted on Youtube deleted as a reference? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HNrBd4kKMgAcePuppy 15:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A while back people pointed out that, since Wikipedia has a zero tolerance policy towards copyright violations, it doesn't make any sense to allow external links to clear violations of the rights of copyright owners at other sites, notably YouTube.  If the video is linked someplace where ownership is attributed and verifiable, and where the owner is getting whatever royalties he can legally claim, Wikipedia can probably link. - BanyanTree 20:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Since the video is not copyrighted and was uploaded via CNN's I-Report, it is in public domain. AcePuppy 23:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cell Phone Camera Video 

message: We should merge this stub article with the main Virginia Tech massacre article. The shooter has no notoraity except for his crime of mass murder, which is told in the main article.  Mytwocents 15:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Terrible, terrible idea. Do not merge. Moncrief 15:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I disagree. I think the easiest example of perpetrators that have their own article is Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. MrMacMan Talk  15:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Do not merge, as per above. – John Stattic (talk) 15:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Strongly disagree to merge, this is the worst school shooting in US History, even beyond the Columbine shooting, if the gunman at the massacre have there own page why shouldn't the Virginia Tech Killer have one as well. AcePuppy 15:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: No no this is a non starter.  I'm revoming the box becasue there are too many already, this is a high profile page, and it will put people off.  (talk · contribs · [ logs] · block user · [ block log]) 15:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Also Charles Whitman. Too early to talk about merging. Let's revisit in a week. THF 15:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is rapidly growing, keep --MoRsE 15:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Remove the box please, this isn't going to happen, and there are 3 boxes now, it looks daft.  (talk · contribs · [ logs] · block user · [ block log]) 15:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Do not merge. Charles Whitman and the Columbine killers have their own pages. This massacre was worse. The killer here should also have his own page. Bruin03 15:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge discussion 

message: We should not repeat the romanisation information. We should remove the romanisation infobox or the info in the text. Let's not be repetitive. Please check other articles about Koreans. One way or the other, not both please. Mumun 無文 15:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  romanisation infobox or 'in-text' romanisation 

message: I removed the current event tag - IF he "recently died" this is obviously a current event, IE this is tautological.  (talk · contribs · [ logs] · block user · [ block log]) 15:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds fine. Too many tags is a bad thing in my mind. --Falcorian (talk) 15:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: However, the second tag is reasonable because it is both a recent death AND related to the VA Tech massacre. AEMoreira042281 16:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is why it is a tautology.  (talk · contribs · [ logs] · block user · [ block log]) 16:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No need for both tags 

message: The guy(the shooter) is not a 'foriegn exchange kid". He has stayed in the us for 14 years - most of the people who come to the US at a small age blend very well into the society. PLEASE DISPEL ANY THOUGHTS WHICH MAKES HIM A GUY WHO CAME HERE JUST FOR SCHOOL OR SOMETHING STUPID LIKE THAT! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sumanthsagar (talk • contribs) 15:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ... Um... I don't see anywhere in the article a mention about him being a foreign exchange student or not. MrMacMan Talk  15:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He isn't necessarily saying that the article does say that. Christopher Connor 16:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not a 'foreign exchange kid".  

message: MrMacMan, what on earth was wrong with that? I was trying to make it following more the guidelines on biographical articles. --MoRsE 16:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I didn't see why the topic heading wasn't going to be about him. Yes he's notable because of the shooting, but I dont think that would be his entire life. I'm not as familiar with WP:BLP as i should be so if your edits make it better than please change it. I just didn't see that type of format for other school shooters. MrMacMan Talk  16:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert? 

message: Can someone create a redirect at 조승희 to this article? 132.205.44.134 16:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  조승희 

message: CNN has a new photo from the Department of Homeland Security... 132.205.44.134 16:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone know if this photo would be in the public domain? --- RockMFR 16:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's at http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/newt1.vt13.tues.jpg -- attributed to DHS, from his green card ... I guess that counts as created by a government agency and thus not under copyright, right?  --zenohockey 16:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Anything by the government is in the public domain. 76.198.148.243 02:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  photo 

message: CNN announced that Cho, two victims and an unrelated shooter came from Westfield high. The unrelated shooter earlier this month killed two cops. Or atleast I think that's what CNN said. 132.205.44.134 16:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: CNN says it was last year that Michael Kennedy Westfield alum, shot and killed two cops in a police substation... 132.205.44.134 19:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Westfield High School 

message: This is probably splitting hairs at the worst possible time, but was he an English language major, or English literature major (or perhaps even something else)? I know all links on here right now seem to be pointing to English language, but every news source I've seen is pretty ambiguous. 132.170.29.48 17:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems he was a student of creative writing, so perhaps neither, or English with a specialization in creative writing. I don't think we should link to the language or literature until this is clarified. It's a good question. Moncrief 17:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From reading the school's English department website, I don't think he could have been an English language major - their program (like most college English major programs) seems more literature-based.  I don't know - perhaps English studies would be the appropriate article to wikilink to? schi talk 18:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was involved in creative writing classes and evidentally wrote a play. Why do you believe his major didn't involve literature? Nil Einne 19:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know why you're attributing that belief to me.  His major obviously involves literature - it doesn't mean that it's accurate to say that he's an English literature major.  My impression is that the article on English studies is more inclusive (it covers the study of literature as well as creative writing, for example), in the absence of detailed information on his major. schi talk 20:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  English Major 

message: Is it really necessary to talk about his family?  They are innocent and people shouldn't associate him with his family - or even ruin his family's business. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.111.231.185 (talk) 17:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: More importantly, should we really be putting his parent's exact address here?--58.104.66.1 17:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed. I think their EXACT address is overkill. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 139.60.210.5 (talk) 17:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it hasn't been already, i'm going to ask for the address to be OVERSIGHT'd. -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION!  17:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Their home address is of no relevance to this or other articles and will most likely only cause the parents more stress one way or another. Away with it. --MoRsE 20:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Compare Klebold#Early_life.  It gives important context.  At the same time, nonsense such as home addresses or phone numbers is obviously not proper. 01:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family necessary? 

message: Admin, please add interwiki: :pl:Cho Seung-hui and :ru:Чо Сеунг-хуи. Bocianski 17:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done -- febOBJECTION!  17:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interwiki 

message: How is this at all notable? There's no reason we should expect him to participate in such activities. Seems racist to think he'd "stick to his own kind". Titanium Dragon 17:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I absolutely agree, especially with the wording as it now exists in the article -- as if there is a implied negative connotation because he didn't participate in those activities.  Moncrief 17:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Tried to clean it up some. Lemme know if you think it could be done better -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION!  17:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I read the article and it says, "he rarely joined or talked with them." It does NOT say that he refused to talk or join them. Janviermichelle 18:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is Korean club even mentioned? He doesn't have an obligation to join even if he was Korean. Why don't we mention he didn't join the chess club or the basketball team and did not talk with them. --Kvasir 18:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's mentioned in the article as a fact. It's up to readers to draw conclusions from facts. I know many people are quite bad at drawing unbiased conclusions from mere facts, but that's not the issue here.--Svetovid 21:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Korean club 

message: I think posting his parents' home address is very inappropriate. They need their privacy during this time as well, and someone in law school I know says there's all sorts of liability for Wikipedia if that stays. 69.234.216.51 17:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gone per WP:BLP. Can an admin delete the relevant history? THF 17:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've asked for the history pages in question to be removed through Oversight -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION!  17:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At least one newspaper has printed the address, so this is ultimately futile, alas. THF 17:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's not a matter of what the rags print, wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, and beyond that being beyond good taste and reason (and potentially, the law), it's unencyclopaedic. Let the paper be sued, don't get wikipedia involved.-- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION!  18:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not defending the newspaper or the insertion. THF 18:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parents' home address 

message: Please be careful in deleting footnotes that are named: someone deleted the first Newsday footnote, and now two other footnotes have been blanked as a result. THF 18:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please be careful editing 

message: I've taken this out of the article because of WP:SYN.  WP:NOR prohibits citing to sources to draw conclusions or do analysis not available in reliable sources discussing the subject of the article. THF 18:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What is it that you're referring to specifically?  Moncrief 18:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be a Korean taboo to write or print somebody's name in red ink. However, I am not too sure that the words "Ismail Axe" qualify as as a name of a person. Mumun 無文 18:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural taboo 

message: Apparently, our murderer wrote a play: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html
:I read it (well, skimmed it thoroughly. It's a brief 10 pages), and that is one awful excuse for a play. Sounds like he threw it together after a night of (name the time-consuming leisure activity). Certainly not on par with the stuff the Unabomber wrote. Thomasmallen 18:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Man do i agree with you on that one. Not only is it poorly written with bad grammar, he plagiarised a section from the movie "Weatherman" almost verbatim. (About the 'asshole' face). I would be embarrassed for that to have leaked since he was an English major. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hsox05 (talk • contribs) 20:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Richard McBeef 

message: The info is relevant. I think it should be in the motive section . But 1st it NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP. _Lilkunta 19:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  it keeps getting deleted! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RMThompson (talk • contribs) 19:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ''"Writings"'' section needs cleanup

message: Is it really necessary to link to the second Korean mass-murderer?  Other than being a Korean killer, what connection is there between these two individuals?  Links to the Columbine killers are not present, so why would this be linked?  Bluefield 19:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted, pending any evidence of relevance. Anthony.moore 19:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Both set records in spree killing. Woo Bum-Kon set the world record, while Cho Seung hui set the record for the United States. In any case, it's not unusual for wikipedia articles to link to other similar cases. You see that sort of thing on many crime-related articles. If they weren't both Korean, it'd still merit a link.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Isocyanide (talk
--Isocyanide 20:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I believe that there is a link to the Colubmine killings via the School massacre link in "see also."  At least, I've added it twice amid all the vandalism today.  I think Woo Bum-Kon is relevant both for nationality, and for the record-setting that both men have in common, as Isocyanide says above. --Lisasmall 19:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree with Bluefield. We need to establish a top 100 list or something for most confirmed kills by one person acting alone. Ikilled007 20:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Shoko Asahara wasn't a spree killer. He was a cult leader who ordered killings, which is a different thing. The similarities with Bum-kon (a former policeman, not a soldier) also go beyond record setting (and if you have a better way to phrase it, please do). Both did not stop after their first set of killings, but moved away to later kill another set of people. The trigger for both has allegedly been a fight with their girlfriends. And of course, both committed suicide. You cannot say the same for any other two spree killers—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Isocyanide (talk • contribs) 20:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Consensus seems pretty clear here to remove the name. I don't see the need in it either. I am removing it for the moment. Please do not add it back as consensus is against it.--Jersey Devil 20:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Before you weighed in, it was 2 vs. 2. I won't re-add it yet, but a consensus has not yet been reached.--Isocyanide 20:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree with Isocyanide; we do not have consensus.  I strongly believe it should stay in.  It is not racist — a list of two names does not condemn an entire people — and it would be of interest to someone researching either killer.  Finally, even though I think the ethnic link makes the addition worthwhile (and we don't hesitate to link U.S. spree killers to one another as "see also" entries), the resemblances between the crimes go beyond ethnicity and a "see also" would be justified just for that.  --Lisasmall 20:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I do not see any direct link between Bum-kon and Seung-Hui except that they are Korean. What is the academic reasoning for adding this into this particular page and the main Virginia Tech Massacre page? FYI, that Bum-kon link in the main event page was also removed as there was no relevance whatsoever. --24.141.67.63 00:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: It seems to me that Bum-kon should not be included at least until this article becomes part of "history" rather than "current events".  That's the best reason I can come up with, having felt uncomfortable with the cross-reference but not really knowing why I felt that way. Siofra 00:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, when I heard about VA Tech massacre before the criminal identification,  I thought of Woo Beum-gon. He was in strife with his female housemate. he killed TENS of people; he committed it with guns;he stormed 4 villages;he suicided.--Queenmillennia 11:06, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Woo Bum-Kon

message: The article says he shot himself (in the head?). Do we know which gun he used on himself? Ikilled007 20:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  His Suicide 

message: In the picture featured in the article, Who is the other person next to Cho wearing the mask? Wikidudeman (talk) 03:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is the other person in the mask? 

message: I have long believed that when a person is "diagnosed" with a potentially dangerous mental disorder, his name should be entered into a national database to avoid selling that person any kind of firearm by legal means. Also, this would help authorities track people with mental problems who have tried to purchase guns in the future, and keep and eye on them.  	 
This law should also state that ANY person who is in the database is found to have a firearm in their possession they should be treated the same way as a felon in possession of a firearm. 	 
t would be up to congress to pass a law restricting gun sales to mentally unbalanced people, and to carefully choose what kinds of mental problems would fall into that category, because if the law states that ANY mental disorder is grounds for rejection of a gun sale, then 300 million americans would most likely lose their right to own guns. 	 
I don't think this tragedy could have been avoided other than by this guy's own reasoning. The way he rants on the videos shows total disgust with others and the determination to follow through, so a gun law to this effect may have done little to prevent this from happening, but maybe he would have been tracked by police once he tried to purchase the guns. 	 
I know that there are probably a million reasons why the government can't use medical histories of citizens for these kinds of purposes, but right now, I know of a good one why they should.
Gun control is a scapegoat. There are plenty of guns throughout the world, and are used responsibly. The problem is America. http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~rahul/Misc/unibomber.html
**Update
As it turns out, there is a law prohibiting the diagnosed with mental problems from purchasing guns, but apparently, this person fell through the cracks...FyT 23:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TO QUESTIONS ABOUT GUN CONTROL 

message: I believe the McBeef story reflects how he viewed other people's power over him, and him not being able to respond as "normal" people do.
(I say "normal" as a means to differentiate his mental state from those around him.)
I see a frustration in his video, and writings of a person who felt was always made the scapegoat, or punching bag for the more astute people around him.
I believe he was channeling what he felt through McBeef's frustration at the fact he wasnt doing anything but other people simply blamed him out of spite, fear, anger, or plain childish bullying, and in the end was made to look like a reject in his own eyes, or one that always brought problems, and therefore people avoided him, or were mean to him.
What the kid did to McBeef in his story is basically what he believed was being done to him, nad I think he wanted to be that kid, if only once he could feel that power over someone else, were he could do anything to others without consequence to himself. 
The final part when McBeef strikes the kid out of "desecrated hurt and anger" was what he felt was happening to himself.
In reality I think the story really talks about McBeef being himself, the kid is those who made fun of him and terrorized, hurt, or otherwise made him into the punching bag because of his condition, looks or whatever it was, and the mother is society who automatically blamed him for whatever others claimed, or did.
The story about him stalking two girls may be another pointer, maybe he meant no harm to the girls he supposedly stalked, no charges were ever brought against him for stalking, so I have to assume the situation was borderline if anything, if thats the case, he must have felt rejected on a monumental scale. At least in my eyes, stalkers are amongst the lowest types in society. 
Now, a lot of people are vilifying this guy for what he did, some call him evil, some a monster, even a lunatic.
But McBeef looks like the victim in the story, and I believe 99% of people who read that story thought that the kid had it coming, or at least would not punish McBeef for his action, because we all read how the kid brought him to a point of no return, and the mother sided with the kid immediately without thought to McBeef's claims, and this I think, is the missing link in this tragedy. 
Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do to turn back time, and we can't arrest someone simply for writing these things, because if we do, then people like Quentin Tarrantino, or Stephen king would be committed to a mental hospital for life, but we can learn to better understand people in his situation and get them real help before they go all out and commit this kind of atrocious crimes...FyT 19:11, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  McBeef's call for understanding 

message: Substituted at 20:25, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment