Talk:Haplogroup N (mtDNA)

message: Causteau, you know very well that the arguments for the origins of haplogroup M are very similar to the arguments for haplogroup N. Since we have a consensus to use both arguments on haplogroup M, the same should apply here. There is a stronger argument for an Asian origin of N than M because of the presence of M1 in Africa. But nonetheless there is still an argument from reliable sources that state that there is a possibility of an African origin of N. It is best and only fair to include all the arguments and studies related to the topic in line with WP:NPOV. Wapondaponda (talk) 00:41, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Am I correct that as of yet, there is no known living person with a living basal haplogrop N* type? If so, making a determinantion for its origin would be very difficult. The Israel/Jordan/Palestine area seems like one resonable place of origin, since the superhaplogroup is weighted towards Southwest Asia. I am as baffled as everyone else on it. --192.172.8.13 (talk) 13:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: 192.172.8.13: Indeed, making a determination for origin of N would be very difficult. But Israel/Jordan/Palestine area does not have a much significant presence of ancient clades. --Maulucioni (talk) 04:05, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

text: The whole region between Africa and India has not revealed any ancestral lineages that could be associated with the Out of Africa migration as indicated by Abu-Amero 2008. The Arabian peninsula and the Middle East would be expected to have a very high level of genetic diversity being in proximity to Africa, but instead India has the second highest level of genetic diversity. There seems to have been a major extinction of lineages in the Arabian peninsula because even y-chromosome haplogroup DE has a disjointed distribution, being found in Africa and East Asia but not in between. The closest thing to an ancestral lineage of N is L3 in Africa, indeed some studies refer to haplogroup N as haplogroup L3(N). Wapondaponda (talk) 07:23, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Origins

message: Another issue that needs resolution is dating. Currently the article gives haplogroup N a date of 65,000 years ago. Whereas the out-of-Africa migration has most recently been estimated to have took place 50,000-85,000 years ago. This still indicates the possibility of N having originated in either Asia or Africa. Wapondaponda (talk) 16:37, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Dates

message: This assertion that Gonzalez et al were only reviewing literature is original research. They make no such claim. They discuss the current scientific arguments and take no sides regarding M and N only M1. Wapondaponda (talk) 04:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Review of literature

message: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18855041?dopt=Abstract --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 20:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  A new ref? 

message: A new study by Soares et al Correcting for Purifying Selection: An Improved Human Mitochondrial Molecular Clock has new dates for the origin of haplogroup M. The study claims to be the most accurate as it has considered the whole genome, both coding and non-coding regions. The article dates haplogroup N to 71200 years ago with a 95% confidence interval of 55800-87100. The study places the Out of Africa migration at 55-70kya. As these dates overalap with the origins of haplogroup N, both an African and Asian origin are possible. However, the point estimate of 71.2 falls outside the range of the proposed date of the out of Africa migration.  The supplemental materials are available for free. N is on page 87.  The image of the phylogenetic tree is available here In the government (talk) 18:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soares et al 2009 

message: I have restored the sections that debate the origins of this haplogroup. Wapondaponda (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  origins again 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Any primary branch of N is basal to any other branch of N, and there is no 'undifferentiated' N in existence today. If somewhere has a high frequency of 'basal N*' that means it has a branch of N which is/was not named yet; look for a newer study with complete mitogenomes if possible. The N* from Soqotra was not any new branch but I5a2 - Cerny et al (2009) only looked at HVS-I and a few other mutations which could not distinguish hg I. It is identified as I3 or I5 in Amy Non's thesis (2010) referenced in this article, and as I5a in Fernandes et al (2012), "The Arabian Cradle: Mitochondrial Relicts of the First Steps along the Southern Route out of Africa". The Somali N is not in reference given at all. Only one of the North African N is listed as N*. Megalophias (talk) 19:15, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basal/undifferentiated N 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Haplogroup N (mtDNA)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Derenko2012":
From Haplogroup B (mtDNA): 
From Haplogroup F (mtDNA): 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 10:33, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Haplogroup N (mtDNA)]] 

message: A, B, F, H, I, J, K, O, P, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, and Y are all N - the numbered N branches are just ones that happened not to get a letter assigned to them during early research - so there is no need to mention, for instance, Natufian N1b, as if it were more relevant than Natufian J2a2. N is the most common mitochondrial lineage in the world, found at high frequency almost everywhere outside of Sub-Saharan Africa. Most ancient mitochondrial DNA sampled so far, including that of oldest modern human aDNA (Ust' Ishim man), is N. Individual cases of ancient N are not worth mentioning, IMO, unless they relate to bigger questions like the transition from archaic to modern human populations, or the potential back-migration of N to Africa. Megalophias (talk) 15:54, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most of the alphabet is N