Talk:Bill Haywood

message: This seems implausible. Hall was 17 years old at the time. (He was born in 1910.) Could he already have had sufficient connections to invite a journalist to meet Haywood???  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.112.148.128 (talk) 19:53, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "At the invitation of CPUSA member Gus Hall, Idaho newspaper reporter John Chapple traveled to Moscow in late 1927"

message: Why would those two incidents end his involvement???
-G
:Haywood's most active participation ended while Lenin was ill, and Haywood had little connection to Stalin, so the basic facts appear to be true.  
:Haywood and Lenin had a working relationship. Lenin had celebrated Haywood's arrival, and had private conversations with him. The two of them signed an agreement in November of 1921 that Haywood would help to develop an industrial colony in Western Siberia. Six months later, in May of 1922, Lenin had his first stroke. Lenin was paralyzed on one side, and became much less active in government. But Haywood's health was also failing. In 1922, Haywood left the colony in the harsh Siberian climate and returned to Moscow to continue his work at the project's office, hoping that his health would improve.
:In December of 1922, Lenin had a second stroke, and in March of 1923, Lenin's third stroke left him bedridden and unable to talk. Two months after that-- in May of 1923-- Haywood resigned from the industrial colony project. Lenin died in 1924.
:Although he spent time trying to learn the Russian language, Haywood never became fluent. He was therefore quite isolated except for occasional visits from exiles and IWW members, and he tended to stay out of the pervasive Russian pastime of politicking. He was quoted, "These Russians attach a hell of a lot to idealogical theory and mark my words, if they're not careful, they'll come to blows about it one of these days. Don't you know yet that most of them would sooner talk that work-- or even eat." This was, of course, quite different from Haywood's origins as a laborer and miner.
:Haywood's writings during his Russian period referred frequently to Lenin, but almost never to Stalin. Haywood died in 1928, the same year that Stalin consolidated his power.
:It seems likely that, in the years before his death, Haywood was depressed and disappointed that the U.S. government prevented his return to his own society and culture. He had asked to return after being in Russia for just three months, even if it meant some prison time, but his lawyer couldn't obtain favorable conditions. 
:In 1926 Haywood took a Russian wife, and communicated with her mostly in sign language. Little is known about their relationship, but it seems likely that he was responding to a deep-seated loneliness and disappointment that Russia wasn't what he had anticipated. 
:best wishes, Richard Myers 11:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a nice passage in Bruce Watson's Bread and Roses (), pg. 91: "And he was not as big as his nickname suggested.  Newspapers had listed him "well over six feet," even "close to seven feet," but he actually stood five foot eleven.  At 240 pounds, his expansive waistline earned him his nickname, but the moniker applied equally to his life." -David Schaich Talk/Cont 20:02, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Lenin's illness and death and Stalin's rise to power ended his role as an advisor to the Soviet [labour] movement"

message: In order of priority (in the opinion of JerryOrr):
#Elaborate on 1918 trial for violation of Espionage Act
##Expanded this section, though more content is welcome! --JerryOrr 01:34, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is looking good.  Bruce Watson's Bread and Roses () is all about the Lawrence strike and has a lot of information about Haywood (including his early life), though I haven't finished reading it yet.  My main problem with the article as it stands is the "Labor philosophies" section, which seems a rump.  If it's going to be in the article, it should at least mention industrial unionism, syndicalism and :One Big Unionism, though some of that details may fit more comfortably in other articles.  I'll see if I can add to it before too long.  -David Schaich Talk/Cont 20:02, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added an industrial unionism section to the (slightly renamed) "Haywood's labor philosophy" section. Because this touches upon socialism, and upon the IWW, the article now has a couple of repetitive themes. I think it isn't too bad, perhaps even necessary to cover all the given territory, but some feedback on this question would be helpful. Richard Myers 01:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks good for the most part (all nicely sourced).  I tried to clean up a few links (you don't need to worry about capitalizing the first letter -- that's taken care of automatically, so craft unionism can just be craft unionism), but kept getting edit conflicts.  (You can use the "show preview" button to get more done without having to save so often.)  My main concern is that the tone of some of your additions may not be what one would expect from an encyclopedia ("General Bell, it just happened, was..." jumped out at me), but that can be corrected in time. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 06:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm adding a miniature, temporary, minutely-more-helpful intro while this is sorted out. 24.99.162.112 (talk) 23:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  To-do list 

message: I've been on a bit of a Wikipedia hiatus, and now I see that my pet article has grown quite a bit! Thank you to everyone who has helped improve this article; I've been imploring the Organized Labour project to help out, but it was a one-man show for a long time. I eventually just ran out of steam (I'm not a professional writer, as you can probably tell). I'm glad to see this article is getting some work, because I think Bill Haywood is greatly underappreciated. I'll try to provide what input I can as you continue giving this a facelift... --JerryOrr 13:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wow! 

message: I've nominated this article for Good Article status. I see that as a first step before peer review, then Featured Article nomination. Just thought I'd let you all know... --JerryOrr 22:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article nomination

message: I like this article a lot, but I'd like to see more in-line citations, particularly in the opening paragraphs. "Never one to shy from conflict ..." ought to be cited or it could be seen as original research, for instance. Someone in one of the bios must have expressed that opinion so you can cite a page number. For a featured article, there really should be an inline citation after pretty much every sentence. If some of that can be fixed, I'll gladly pass this as a GA.--Bookworm857158367 15:50, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added a little detail, and provided inline citations for much of the industrial unionism section. Will look at the following section soon. Richard Myers 07:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I have also finished with Haywood's revolutionary imperative. These are the two sections that i've added to this article, and which i have essentially completed on my own (aside from someone re-formatting references.) I've worked just a bit on the last section, but it is mostly someone else's work. Richard Myers 09:49, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've also added a few more citations for the sections I've worked on. It doesn't exactly have a citation "after pretty much every sentence", but I think it's pretty well cited. Is this ready for GA? --JerryOrr 16:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I've passed it for GA. It looks good right now. Very interesting article. --Bookworm857158367 16:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article on hold

message: I'm putting this article in for peer review, as the next step towards getting Featured Article status. Let's keep up the good work on this article! --JerryOrr 02:38, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Peer review

message: "I've never read Marx's Capital, but I have the marks of capital all over me."
"I've never read Marx's Capital, but I have the mark of capital all over me."
"I've never read Marx's Capital, but I have the marks of capital all over my body."
What a delicious quote, in all its variations. 
Michael Smith attributes it to Haywood, here:
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May05/Smith0503.htm
Smith offers sources, but not footnotes.
It is also here:
'Who Can We Shoot?' 
Democratic Elitism, Marxism and American Progressivism
By John F. Manley, Department of Political Science, Stanford University
1999
This essay originally appeared in the International Review of Sociology—Revue Internationale de Sociologie, Vol. 9, No. 2, 1999 (pp. 183—195)  
(quoted in Lukas (1997, p. 233))
http://www.iefd.org/articles/who_can_we_shoot.php
And, it is in unattributed quote files on the web.
Ahhh, well, i think Lukas is likely to be our best source. Lukas would be:
Big Trouble: A Murder in a Small Western Town Sets Off a Struggle for the Soul of America,
by J. Anthony Lukas, New York, Simon & Schuster,
875 pages, $32.50
However, i don't have that text handy. It is in nearby bookstores, and i could verify this. But does anyone else have quicker access?
Richard Myers 18:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bill Haywood quotation about capital 

message: Bill Haywood on detectives:
:A detective is the lowest, meanest and most contemptible thing that either creeps or crawls, a thing to loathe and despise. ... That you may know how small a detective is, you can take a hair and punch the pith out of it and in the hollow hair you can put the hearts and souls of 40,000 detectives and they will still rattle. You can pour them out on the surface of your thumbnail and the skin of a gnat will make an umbrella for them. 
:When a detective dies, he goes so low that he has to climb a ladder to get into Hell— and he is not a welcome guest there. When his Satanic Majesty sees him coming, he says to his imps, "Go get a big bucket of pitch and a lot of sulphur, give them to that fellow and put him outside. Let him start a Hell of his own. We don't want him in here, starting trouble." <Carlson, 146-7.> Richard Myers 19:16, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oh, this is delicious 

message: I have revised the last couple of paragraphs of this section. Richard Myers 19:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About "Haywood's revolutionary imperative" 

message: Someone (User_talk:Malplaquet) added the entire page from this website:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/haywood/HAY_CHRO.HTM
to the Bill Haywood article. I have reverted for inappropriate content in this article, and probable violation of copyright law. Richard Myers 06:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  reverted for possible copyright violation 

message: I've requested a specific resource citation for the Boyce statement, here: User_talk:Tim1965#Ed_Boyce_resource
The original statement is in the Ed Boyce article:
Ed_Boyce#Public_service
I know that Jameson covered this territory — that the WFM (at least in the Cripple Creek area) had a heritage of Asian exclusion — but she doesn't tie it directly to Boyce in her book about Cripple Creek, All That Glitters. 
Jerry, i like both of your suggestions about the Racial unity section title. Richard Myers 00:52, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hopefully we'll get a source regarding Boyce; I think you are correct in not using All That Glitters as a source for Boyce's thoughts on racial unity. By the way you describe it, I think it would constitute original research to state that Boyce was adverse to racial unity due to the WFM's exclusion of Asian workers. If we can't get a source for Boyce, we'll just have to make the statement more general. --JerryOrr 02:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ed Boyce & exclusion of foreign workers 

message: Interesting to see Haywood's history promoted this way:
2007 Marks the 100th Anniversary of the “Trial of the Century”
http://www.idahohistory.net/Trial_century.pdf
Richard Myers 00:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is interesting; good link. I'll have to read it when I have the time. --JerryOrr 02:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trial of the Century 

message: I removed this edit because it was not a proper edit. I have not explored whether the info is valid:
because Tyler M. Shillings of Indiana's Senatorial staff arrived during the second half of the trial with evidence disproving the charges. Are You Going To Hang My Papa?]]
Richard Myers (talk) 01:22, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed this edit 

message: There's a great photo of Bill Haywood on Flickr here. Kaldari (talk) 19:19, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better image 

message: This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review.
The article is in a good shape, but some parts could still need references, including one "citation needed" tag. The "See Also" in the "Murder trial" section is out of place, it should be incorporated into the text, put in a footnote or placed in the general "See also" section at the bottom. One picture needs a caption, if anyone can dig up any information on it, and another one is used twice. Lampman (talk) 11:37, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Sweeps