Talk:Rough Collie

message: This section concludes "the herding instinct is still very much apparent in the breed today" after saying in the preceding paragraph that the collie now has "little" herding instinct that is "diluted" – which is it?
Added contradiction tag JGHowes talk -  13:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've edited to resolve the "Contradiction" tag accordingly - it's been there long enough. If the editor who originally added the unsourced information can provide info. to substantiate the contradictory statement, please discuss here before changing it. JGHowes talk -  21:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Being "apparent" and your own personal experience fall under the no original research policy.  Sources need to be found to actually support the statements. AnmaFinotera 23:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:   Mike0001 (talk) 15:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temperament section 

message: Can the page be restored to the version id 189988375? The only contentious issue was the image, and this version fixes issues with the references (there but malformed), MOS fixes (including a missing references tag in the reference section) and some text clean up AnmaFinotera (talk) 17:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, the version currently protected has broken syntax JGHowes talk -  17:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This revision, correct? · AndonicO Hail! 18:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this what you meant? · AndonicO Hail! 18:55, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, thanks JGHowes talk -  19:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Yes, thank you. *now goes to cool her head*  :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:47, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you stick the image in till Collectonium cools down please? Mike0001 (talk) 21:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, because that was the source of controversy, not the other edits. And I wouldn't need to cool down if you'd quit trying to shove an unnecessary image in just because you took it. AnmaFinotera (talk) 21:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: AnmaFinotera, I think you are being terribly bossy here!  Why not let Mike0001 put the image on? 86.149.32.64 (talk) 14:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia has guidelines about articles, and adding the image would not follow them.  Presuming you are not Mike just not logged in, I explained to him how he could improve the article in a way that would then possibly allow the addition of his image, but he doesn't seem to want to actually do that.  He only appears to want to add his image and do nothing to really improve the article. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:08, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK,let us look at the reasons given so far for non-inclusion. (a) Because I took the picture! (b) Because the picture might possibly be my pet. (c) Because I like the picture.  (d) Because the article is too short. ( I agree there, but every time I try to edit you undo.) As for improving, I have already offered to reword the following: Viewed from front or side, head resembles a well-blunted clean wedge, being smooth in outline. Skull flat. Sides taper gradually and smoothly from ears to end of black nose, without prominent cheek bones or pinched muzzle. Viewed in profile, top of skull and top of muzzle lie in two parallel straight lines of equal length divided by a slight, but perceptible stop or break. A mid-point between inside corner of eyes (which is centre of a correctly placed stop) is centre of balance in length of head. End of smooth, well rounded muzzle blunt, never square. Under jaw strong, clean cut. Depth of skull from brow to underpart of jaw never excessive (deep through). Nose always black. Mike0001 (talk) 15:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Content needs to be in actual prose, not a list of bullet points without the bullets.  It also needs a source. And no, reasons given are primarily because the article is too short to support another image and the image illustrates nothing discussed in the text at this time.  The other three are the reasons for your being obsessed with adding the image and starting an edit war. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the compliment!  :-) Mike0001 (talk) 16:42, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit protect request

message: Can  be add to the EL section?  No idea why its missing, as the Commons has lots of Rough Collie pics. AnmaFinotera (talk) 01:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Tony Fox (arf!) 01:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Got it. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  Removed from draft. Mike0001 (talk) 15:32, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Request 

message: I have not found a reference to this anywhere.  Is it true?  Mike0001 (talk) 10:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've read the same a few places myself, but I'll look and see if any of my references mentions it. AnmaFinotera (talk) 14:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK thanks! Mike0001 (talk) 16:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The International Encyclopedia of Dogs also notes that collies may have been bread with Borzoi's to obtain the head shape (though they go with may rather than saying its 100% certain) AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Brilliant, I can stick that reference in. Mike0001 (talk) 13:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done!  I have finished for now.  Is this version ready to go? Mike0001 (talk) 15:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interbreeding with Borzoi 

message: It looks like everyone can play nicely with one another at this point; I'll unprotect, and urge all to go forth and edit in peace. Thaninks. Tony Fox (arf!) 18:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unprotecting 

message: In order to avoid an edit war, I am starting a discussion on recent changes made by User:66.93.4.48.  It seems to me that the IP user thinks that the infobox photo is Shetland Sheepdog and not a Rough Collie. I can understand this since there is not a point of reference that we can use to judge the dog's height.  The entire background is just concrete.  Also, the camera angle is aimed slightly downward, which makes dog look smaller.Coaster1983 (talk) 03:20, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: I don't know if this has been mentioned...
But I'm pretty sure that's a sheltie and not a rough collie. That picture has been published several other places as a sheltie. It might be better to pick another picture that's more representative of the breed. 
65.12.38.237 (talk) 22:51, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a Rough Collie, I think you have confused the image with this one. Keetanii (talk) 08:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  First picture listed... 

message: This breed really *ISN'T* referred to as the 'long-haired' collie anywhere by people with more than minimal dog knowlege.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.242.254.152 (talk) 10:04, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Long-haired collie

message: Just added some more pictures of Collies with different coat colours. Keetanii (talk) 11:09, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: pictures

message: how can i identify a good, pure breed rough collie pup by looking at it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.68.58.246 (talk) 09:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  rough collie pup 

message: There is a statement that the collie does not do well outdoors, this is an absurd claim for a working herding dog with a double layer long coat, and thus I have challenged it. I would recommend removing the statement. The breed has been used very successfully in northern climates and even its origins lie in the scotch collie which refers to Scotland which is quite far north. I added some information based on experience with the breed as a working farm dog in very cold northern climates, others may have a source to list and I may in the future reference that when time permits research. I am not condoning throwing an non-acclimated house dog outside in the middle of winter or not providing adequate shelter. I am talking about historical and current use of the breed as a working farm dog in northern climates. I will check back later if anyone has additional comments. Thanks. 208.54.40.184 (talk) 20:56, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have just deleted. Pretty absurd statement - especially when the next para states that they do well outside... Ckruschke (talk) 03:57, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm strongly considering just deleting it myself.  It is an absurd statement.  That said, once a "citation needed" tag is added, we should wait the requisite time to see if someone provides a reliable citation.  (I'm betting none will be forthcoming, seeing as the statement is simply wrong...) Fish Man (talk) 14:05, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Challenging statement in temperament section that the collie does not do well outdoors.  

message: The name "Coll, Colley, Coally and Coaly" is a anglesaxon word "col" (german "Kohle" = coal e.g. "Kohlrappe" for a dirty black horse, "Holzkohle" = Charcoal) as association of a dirty black color (soot, smoke, coalash color) of the sheeps. Coal was the color of the sheeps, the sheeps was called "kol-y" (= coley = colley).
the complete ethymology is:
kula-, kulam***, germ., st. N. (a): nhd. "Kohle"; ne. "coal"; RB.: an., ae., mnl., as., ahd.; Hw.: s. "*kulōn" (Plural); E.: s. idg. "*geulo-, *gulo-", Sb., Kohle, Pokorny 399; W.: an. "kol" (1), st. N. (a), Holzkohle; W.: ae. "col", st. N. (a), Kohle, glühende Kohle; W.: mnl. cole, Sb., Kohle; W.: s. as. "*kol?", Sb., Holzkohle, Kohle; vgl. mnd. "kol", N., Kohle; W.: ahd. "kol" 5, st. N. (a), Kohle, Ruß; s. mhd. "kol", sw. M., st. M., st. N., Kohle, Kohlenhaufen; s. nhd. Kohle, F., Kohle, DW 11, 1582; L.: Falk/Torp 48, Kluge s. u. Kohle, Source online: http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germ/germ_k.html
Settlers from germanic region came with dogs, sheeps and cows to scottland and builded a breeding in england. 
The "colley" sheep is a children of "Rauhwolliges Pommersches Landschaf" (Pomeranian Coarsewool Sheep) from region "Pommern" (Pomerania) in eastgerman/polish coast, that is the amber route from westbalticum to Saale River in middle germany. This sheep race is minimum 3600 years old, after a analyse of a texil artefact from Island Rügen (oldgermanic Rugia). It is the forefather of different sheep races and her herd dogs. The herd dogs (working dogs) from Pommern is the father of scottish herd dogs and irish working dogs (and lot other irish/english dogs) and this dogs is the forefather of collie dogs.  
Look a old german herd dogs: http://www.altdeutschehuetehunde.de/ 
(Working dogs from poland and westbalticum have the same root like old german sheep dogs). This most Non-recognized breed is in danger!!!
The domestication of dogs start in paleolithic northern europe. 
Source: Science 15 Nov. 2013: DOI:10.1126/science.1243650 Genomes of Ancient Canids Suggest a European Origin of Domestic Dogs
The near mesolithic dog is found in Oberkassel and Kartstein (14.700-12.000 years), germany and Kesslerloch Cave in northern swiss by south german border in a mesolithic northern hunter and gatherer complex. This is the line of the "eurasian super clade" (64% of all dogs are members of this clade). They are tested with different wolfes in europe, scandinavia, russia, asia and america.  
1600 BC is the time of Nebra sky disk and she had tin and gold from cornwall mines and river Carnon in Cornwall and copper from austria. Early Collie breed:
The Dogs of Sewallis Evelyn Shirley (Lord of the Manor of Ettington) from  Lough Fea in Irland had crossing a "irish working dog" (Irish Working Sheepdogs) with name "Bess" with Setter, the result was "Trefoli", born 19.03.1873 in Lough Fea. This dog is together with "Old Cockie" (born 1868 by Mr. Waite from Nottingham) the grandfather and primogenitor for all collies. Book: "The Collie" from Hugh Dalziel, 1904  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.250.72.216 (talk) 00:04, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  collie info 

message: Substituted at 04:57, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: In the lead it says they are not related, but in the body of the article it says the Shetland is partly descended from the Rough Collie. Can't have it both ways, unless there are two sources.  Chris the speller yack 04:52, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relationship to Shetland Sheepdog 

message: At the end of the section on herding, it says:
"Throughout the country there are local herding clubs that provide clinics, work days, trials and tests. Several organizations provide herding title programs in which Collies regularly participate. A Herding Instinct Test introduces Collies and their handlers to herding at the basic level. It is designed to show whether or not a Collie, who may have never had any exposure to livestock, still has the natural instinct to perform the function for which the breed was initially created. It is a non-competitive introduction to carefully selected and easily handled livestock under favorably controlled conditions.[14]"
Which country is it talking about?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2403:9800:C048:1420:F86A:18E3:EABB:6F03 (talk) 05:56, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Herding section