Talk:Balkanization

message: The second sentence of the article, first paragraph states "Balkanisation is a result of foreign policies creating geopolitical fragmentation,".  It seems unnecessary to note that it is from foreign policies, especially in the first paragraph.  This process could happen from domestic policies as well.  Didn't want to remove it without understanding the purpose.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.191.153.218 (talk) 16:18, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Unnecessarily exclusive sentence?

message: I capitalized Balkanization twice for the sake of consistency, as it seems to be acceptable both ways -- does anyone have a reason to have it uncapitalized? I don't know much about the word...Lady~Macbeth 02:10, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: According to wiktionary and the Collaborative International Dictionary of English, no.  According to WordNet, yes.  Various sites non-authoritative sources on the Web use it differently (some capitalized, others not).  I think it should not be capitalized because it is not a noun; but perhaps English allows it to be because English is often strange -- I'm not sure.  I lowercased all the uses before I saw the WordNet definition. -Pgan002 19:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should ''Balkanization'' be captialized? 

message: We use this term in Central Europe in entirely other connotation.
There is a good example for Balkanization.
Public letter of Sabin Gherman a Romanian from Transylvania (Sabin Gherman - chairman of Pro Transilvania) originally appeared in Monitorul de Cluj:
I am fed-up with Romania!
by Sabin Gherman
I am fed-up with John Doe (Transl. note: in romanian Mitica), with the smartarseness and with the Gypsy-like behaviour that are associated to this country name, Romania. I talk to several politicians who hold the power and all of them tell me that "we have no chance whatsoever"(Transl. note: to join modern Europe). I read in the newspapers and find that the government took care to give more funds to Bucharest than to the entire Transylvania, from the '98 revenue. I drive the car South and East and I notice the difference: there are better highways there, funds are always pumped in there. I wait in line at the revenue office, at the state-owned bank, at anything state-owned and tips are given everywhere. Bribes. Payola. Turkish habits, which one cannot do without.
So what? I don't want to emigrate, just because nothing has been done in ten years. I'm just fed-up with Romania. With its synonyms. With its heroisms taken out of any historical context. Other nations show their pride in Michelangelo or Da Vinci, whereas I'm shown the letter of Neacsu from Cimpulung (Transl.note: the first document written in Romanian, dated 1521 and sent by Neacsu to the Saxon mayor of Brassó, Transylvania, with reference to Turkish war ship movements on the Danube). What a fantastic achievement, this delation! (Transl, note: a quotation from Ion Luca Caragiale) If I regret anything at all now, at 30 years old, it is that I was born here, that I am among those who had been taught in school that this people, - "the beoble" (Transl. note: another quotation from Ion Luca Caragiale), Gentlemen, was in a permanent erection in front of history. What people? We, who hadn't shown virility at least once, we, who were packing up in times of invasion and ran for our lives to the forests, we, who were fainting in the halls where history was being decided (Transl. note: reference to the Romanian Foreign minister's faint, when he heard the Vienna decision in 1940, returning Northern Transylvania to Hungary), we, who nowadays scream for a piece of bread and don't know what more tricks to invent.
Here we are, bum-patched, elbow-ripped, we enter history as if a filthy pub in the neighbourhood. Between two burps and a swearing, the people (the beoble, gentlemen!), talk fiercely about Posada (Transl. note: the pass where King Karoly Robert of Hungary lost the battle in 1330 after being attacked from the back), about Michael The Brave (Mihai Viteazul, prince of Walachia, or Muntenia, who conquered Transylvania and Moldavia at about 1600), about "Long live and prosper Moldavia, Transylvania and Muntenia!" (Transl.note: historical provinces of the nowadays Romania). And yet another victorious burp. I'm fed-up with being ashamed of myself. That's why I tell my Western friends that I am from Transylvania. Altra paese. Other country. L'autre pays. I'm fed-up with being told by all non-Transylvanians that here, in Transylvania, I have troubles with Hungarians. That, weren't they... That hunger is the mother of wisdom. That federalisation is the most terrible danger watching me, stalking on me around the corner of the tower of flats along to the mugger whom I pay taxes for. That I ought to tighten the belt, as if Nasreddine's donkey (Transl.note: reference to folk stories about Nasreddine Hoca or Hodja). In the name of the "unity" and "prosperity" of the romanian kin. Yet I, who have been waiting for 10 years for a real unity, the unity of Transylvanian parliament members for Transylvania, the civic campaign to save the few that is left.
Yet I, praying each evening to finally come to an end with László Tőkés, with his ethnical aberrations against everyone. (Transl.note: ironical reference to the Hungarian Reformat bishop, the frequent target of Romanian nationalists' attacks). Yet, in vain. So far. Some people carried out the Unification [of Transylvania with Romania] in 1918. Other people put their hopes in a Swiss-type confederation, together with Hungary, Czechia, and Austria. And still others, as Ioan Slavici, said that the unification of Transylvania with Romania is hogwash, and were jailed. Now we can see its outcome. Sobriety, elegance, and discipline - features of Transylvania - were invaded by johndoeisms, by ordinary Balkan habits, by the civilisation of the pumpkin seeds. It was Romania's chance to unite with Transylvania, to learn something from its organisation, from its systems of values. It did not happen so; Romania swallowed Transylvania - this is why nowadays one can slide every three yards on the saliva spat on the great boulevards. It is not myself who says this, but someone equal to God, Cioran (Transl.note: Romanian born Emil Cioran (1911-1995), active in France as a writer). Many will throw in their two cents to argue the aforesaid. But: how many of you didn't go to Bucharest with your filled bag, with the famous wovenbag, stuffed with bottles of hard drink? And you didn't bring it to your friends, but to chief executive officers, to ministries, to high places behind closed doors. And if, naive as you are, you didn't carry those bags, how many times weren't you warned that one enters Bucharest with one's head, since your hands are busy with "luggages". Bucharest, this place where the phthisic genius kisses the billionaire illiterate, taught all the country that "one is given". "Meat is given", "Eggs are given". One is given. Mollusk attitude.
One has no rights here, only conventionalities. Here one eats pumpkin seeds, one uses to talk like: "there is many", and people generally are born, spawn, and die. They haven't learned anything from Hungarians, they haven't learned anything from Austrians, they haven't learned anything from Germans. Too early they switched from "forktion" (Transl.note: a quotation from Vasile alecsandri; an ironical reference to snobs, who, having no good French skills, thought enough adding the -tion suffix to the Romanian word furculita=fork, to get its foreign version) to "Romanian brigades pierce through Carpathians!" (Transl. note: the marching song of the royal Romanian army when in 1916, after two years of neutrality, attacked the Hungarian held Transylvania, but withdrawn soon, after 3 weeks, because of military failure). Maybe this is why the bravest "defenders" of Transylvania were born beyond the Carpathians. Maybe this is why Europe ends somewhere near Braşov (Hungarian: Brassó). There's where Transylvania ends as well. Since, besides language and poor highways we have nothing in common.
We will have to wake up. To admit that what happens now is a comedy. But one in which your children ask you for a chocolate, and you just raise your shoulders. In which, tremblingly, you always look for a recommendation for anything. In which you whisper round corners about the villas of policemen, or of parliament members. A world doomed to borrowing from one salary to the next one. We will have to see that it can be otherwise. That we are different. That all the evil comes from Bucharest, from the luxury palaces, where politicians dispute the bone without any shame at all. We will have to see that it's not Hungarians, or Germans, or people of Burundi those who are our enemies, but ourselves, who live from one day to the next one, doomed to steal and swear around corners. We have nothing what to tell each other anymore, we have been doing this for 75 years (Transl. note: since 1918 when Transylvania was united with Romania) and we are 75 times poorer now. Otherwise, have nice days - I'm fed-up with Romania, I want my Transylvania!
(Sept. 16, 1998)
Bendeguz 11:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is irrelevant, "The Balkans" are an area, hence refering to ordinary Balkan habits is refering to the habits of the people living in that area. It is unconnected to this word Balkanization.
EAi 23:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Another connotation

message: Dr. Bernard Lewis developed a Balkanization concept where Western governments would help to spread Islamic fundamentalism in the Middle East, and how this would trigger a surge of Islamic nationalism among Soviet Muslims and lead to a collapse of the Soviet Union. This theory was put into action in Afghanistan, where massive U.S. aid to the Mujahadeen and other Muslim fundamentalists in Pakistan helped lead to the collapse of the Soviet Union. In a textbook example of blowback, this plan also elevated Osama bin Laden to an influential position among Muslim fundamentalists, and led directly to the establishment of Al Qaeda, the organization alledgedly responsible for the September 11th attacks against the United States. This balkanization plan also helped to trigger the Chechnyan separatist movement in which Russians and Chechnyans are currently embroiled.
This is complete rubbish.
The US supported Afgh. to contain the USSR.  Military failure in Afgh. helped bring down USSR by demoralising the army - NOT because fundamenalist Islam in Afgh. led to a fundamentalist revival in the USSR!  accordingly, the follow on arguments about blowback are rubbish.  Toby Douglass 16:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed section 

message: What does "No American urban planning to describe the process of how gated communities are created" mean? I can't parse that sentence. Should "No" be replaced with "The term Balkanization is sometimes used in?" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.107.0.73 (talk) 21:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mangled grammar => meaningless sentence? 

message: I suggest we add Kosovo into the map that shows the progressive breakup of Yugoslavia. Just a suggestion; I am not good at editing so I will not attempt it ;). 58.165.70.117 (talk) 01:10, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kosovo 

message: Could someone edit the map so that two constitutional entities (Republic of Srpska and Federation of Bosnia-Herzegovina) be visible after 2005? There's no reason to not show them, because they are visible prior to 2005. and no changes happened in territorial or constitutional composition of Bosnia and Herzegovina from that time.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.46.173.46 (talk) 17:25, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Bosnian entities

message: The following text was added in a recent edit.  It looks like some sort of school essay or presentation.  It probably contains several points worth making, but in its present form it is not suitable for the article.  I leave it here for editors' consideration.  FTR, I am a registered editor but I am not logged on as I was just looking something up quickly.  83.70.233.68 (talk) 12:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undoing recent edit 

message: This is most clearly a pejorative term, and it is outright immoral for anyone to make assertions about whether their narrow use is meant to be pejorative or merely one with deeply negative connotations. Briefly, can you imagine "persistent propensity for military defeat" replaced by "Frenchization," for example? No? Well, why would it be any different if a term is applied to an region with misfortune of location, whose conflict was caused repeatedly, over two millennia, by a host of invaders, most often Western and Central European empires? I personally find the section about the "Balkanization of Africa" to be deeply offensive. It is just not okay for a site of such global importance to editorially endorse and promote prejudice.
At sr.wikipedia it is stated that it is a pejorative term and that the article is partly or wholy taken from a book titled "Речник социјалног рада" or "Rečnik socijalnog rada" by the author prof. dr Ivan Vidanović. I will try to find the exact citation in the book mentioned. --Regards, Biblbroks's talk 01:00, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pejorative term 

message: Can anyone make the article's main image animate, as the full size image does? It's possible, as shown on the Animation page, but I can't see how to do it. David (talk) 18:19, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Animation? 

message: Balkanization should not be seen as a pejorative term. Rather it is a term used by foreign powers to divert attention away from its policy of control and subjugation of a population to the effect those policies have had. Even Britannica states "the term Balkanization is today invoked to explain the disintegration of some multiethnic states and their devolution into dictatorship, ethnic cleansing, and civil war." (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/50323/Balkanization) How can a term explain events? Balkanization is a term found in the vocabulary of those outside the Balkans and is a completely strange reason (term?) for people to act in any geopolitical fashion.
If Balkanization is a term to describe geopolitical fractioning then Yugoslavia is a term to describe a unification process when foreign powers leave. Yugoslavia then can mean the expulsion of foreign powers by indigenous groups. So, in simplistic formulism, Balkanization occurred as a result of the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Third Reich and then finally the West. Yugoslavia seems to have occurred after long, complex processes to unite peoples by common language and interwoven histories after foreign powers have left. Yugoslavia was the name adopted by a united and free people - Balkanization is the term used by foreign powers as a set of goals and foreign policies of subjugation. One was adopted by an indigenous population, the other term adopted by foreign powers.
Using this more refined meaning of Balkanization, it can be seen in a more modern sense recently when Eric Schmidt and Jared Cohen stated "When technologists began to notice states regulating and projecting influence online, some warned against a `Balkanisation of the internet`" (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/apr/23/web-censorship-net-closing-in) The hidden ground here is that the internet is a free, open and independent network and foreign powers are extending their reach by creating a `Russian internet` and an `American internet` - an allusion to old Cold War habits - and thus worrying Balkanization policies.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atucovic (talk • contribs) 06:26, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balkanization as foreign policy creating geopolitical fragmentation 

message: 68.110.127.6 (talk) 16:59, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is Balkanization a "bad" thing? 

message: Te following statement lacks sources. Even if it has sources it is jargon at best. There is not any possibility that this political concept can be applied to computer languages. 
Balkanization is sometimes used to refer to the divergence over time of programming languages and data file formats (particularly XML).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.254.148.163 (talk) 08:29, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Software languages are nothing to do with Balkanization 

message: The article seems to take on face value the idea that the term is pejorative, even though the Merriam-Webster definition does not indicate it is considered so, and the other source cited in the intro is in another language and cannot be verified by most editors of the English Wikipedia. It also relies on a single person who objects to the word without offering any other viewpoints or sources, and in such a stubby article this seems to lend undue weight to this person's perspective. It looks like the use of the adjective "pejorative" has been discussed and deemed inappropriate and removed, and whoever added it back in did not give any reason for doing so on the talk page, so I will remove it again. Mmyers1976 (talk) 16:00, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: How would the creation of ineffective hostile states be neutral or even positive? Anyway, MW is not a prescriptive authority on English and its example are mostly in a negative context which is enough. --Mark Enlightenment (talk) 20:12, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The sentence "Non-controversial, non-locally referencing, much older terms are separatism and its stronger analogue, secessionism" in the lead is puzzling, as balkanization is not remotely synonymous with separatism or secessionism, and it is misleading to teach these as synonyms. The note is even less correct, inserting the term "breakaway state" (again, balkanization cannot be equated to a simple separatist movement or state), while cushioning it in some salesman language about how those terms are much older, readily understood, whatever. This is terrible NPOV and unreferenced at that. Also, in reply to the comment above: Balkanization does not necessarily refer to ineffective states or even hostile states, and even if it did, considering that automatically worse than being under the hegemony of X or Y power is discarding about half of everything Southeast Europeans have ever written about Southeast Europe. If none object, i will remove that bizarre line from the lead. P.S: With all of this said, i see many WP:BOLD edits in the page history for toning down what was once an even less neutral article, and i thank all the persons involved for them. YuriNikolai (talk) 23:53, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: Countries are now being balkanised through segregation of Media, social media etcetera. Is democracy possible in this environment? Lawrence18uk (talk) 05:30, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balkanization via modern media