Talk:Patrick Clawson

message: I've reverted the statement that: "In September 2012, Clawson was criticized in some opinion pieces for advocating that the US government provoke a war with Iran at a Washington Institute for Near east Policy event." This is not an accurate summary of what Clawson was saying. Clawson was very explicit that he was describing a scenario in which a compromise with Iran could not be reached. He then noted that in the past American entrance into war has required more than just a calculation of American interests, but also some instigating event. He cited a number of such events (Pearl Harbor, the Lusitania sinking, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the destruction of the USS Maine). He did not advocate or propose any course of action - he noted a historical trend. Whether or not the listener was intended to draw a conclusion from his remarks would require speculation, which Wikipedia does not engage in.GabrielF (talk) 10:43, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, people who work for a think tank are not lobbyists. They are researchers and their research may be targeted towards advising policymakers, but the term lobbyist has a very specific meaning. More importantly, he never uses the term "false flag". He's noting certain historical trends. Pearl Harbor or Fort Sumter were not false flag operations. They were incidents in which the US acted in a way that was provocative (in the Pearl Harbor case, the oil embargo against Japan), but the decision to take military action lay entirely with the other side. Given Clawson's purposefully oblique statements, any statement saying that he's advocating a particular policy option would be an analysis rather than a pure statement of fact. Finally, antiwar.com is not a reliable source for wikipedia.GabrielF (talk) 22:00, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Citing YouTube itself, i.e. "what someone actually said," and determining whether it's notable or relevant is not our job. That's what reporters, bloggers, etc. do. Wikipedia is a tertiary source, where we report on what other journalists and the like have said in reliable sources. This is an encyclopedia, not an investigative journalism type thing. -LtNOWIS (talk) 01:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

text: A few points: 
* Antiwar.com is a perfectly credible source, meeting all the conditions of a reliable source. 
* The incident is extremely relevant to the personage in question, and in fact, the most notable public fact about him, so there is no undue weight given to any of the entries about it. 
* If you want to edit, don't wipe out all mention of the incident. That comes across as politically motivated sterilization of the article, rather than an objectively motivated edit. Instead, edit the mention of the incident in a manner that you think will make it comply with Wikipedia rules.--Cincinatis2 (talk) 09:14, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clawson & Iran 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion