Talk:American Nazi Party/Archive 1

message: Was the Nazi Party really it's name? 'Nazi' was originally an insulting term for a National Socialist.--Hexiva 00:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously that's not a reliable source. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 21:43, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was the Nazi Party really it's name? 

message: Shouldn't the above DAB be at the hatnote of this aricle? --Ludvikus (talk) 17:20, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[National Socialist Movement]] 

message: "The party was based largely upon the ideals and policies of Adolf Hitler's NSDAP in Germany during the Third Reich but also expressed allegiance to the Constitutional principles of the U.S.'s Founding Fathers."
--- Wikipedia
That is contradictory and not only that, you don't cite a source. --SomeDudeWithAUserName (talk with me!) 01:18, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Just because it expressed such an allegiance does not mean that it wasn't doublethink; a lot of people have very bizarre ideas about what the principles of the Constitution and the founding fathers are! --Orange Mike  |  Talk 13:56, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It is doublethink to think that founding fathers are like that, unless they have never read ANY of the founding documents. Unlike them, I have read the Declaration of Independence. --SomeDudeWithAUserName (talk with me!) 17:22, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agreed with you, Dude! Look at people like Scott Walker and whoever the gauleiter of Michigan is: they claim to be conservatives and patriots! --Orange Mike  |  Talk 17:38, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, they ARE patriots and that is the problem. To be unpatriotic is to follow in the founding fathers' footsteps. --SomeDudeWithAUserName (talk with me!) 04:35, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{citation needed|date=March 2011}} 

message: * Wheaton , Elizabeth (2008) Codename Greenkil: The 1979 Greensboro Killings University of Georgia Press  pp46 says that the Collin was half Jewish was part of an FBI smear campaign. I think this should be refelected in the article, thoughts? The Last Angry Man (talk) 12:13, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a kinda fringey assertion. What are her claimed sources for this? --Orange Mike | Talk 14:26, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What she is saying is that they used the fact that he was half-Jewish in an attempt to oust him from his position. She is not suggesting it isn't true. You can view it on G books. Dougweller (talk) 15:29, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frank Collin 

message: An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:18, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC 

message: Rocky J. Suhayda's party is mentioned in the article, but it is not the ANP that this article is about, so turning the lead into something sourced from his party is obviously wrong. This article is not about Rocky J. Suhayda's party. Dougweller (talk) 14:24, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits to lead 

message: Almost this entire article is completely unsourced. Wasp14 (talk) 15:59, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Guess I must have hallucinated the 10 citations and 1 listing in the bibliography. BMK (talk) 04:11, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I said "almost". I didn't say there were no sources. Only 4 of the 11 paragraphs in the article have any sources. Half the sources, numbers 6-10, are to one paragraph at the end of the article. The other 5 citations are in just 3 other paragraphs. 7 paragraphes have no citations. Wasp14 (talk) 02:00, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there are a couple of things to do when you see an article that you think is not adequately sourced.  If you believe that the information is true or accurate, but simply requires a source, you can mark specific statements with a "citation needed" tag.  If you think the information is untrue or inaccurate or misleading, you can remove the information from the article, which may provoke other editors to find sources for it. You can complain about the lack of sources on the talk page, or, and this is probably the preferred action, you can do some research and try to find the missing sources. In other words you could fix it. BMK (talk) 02:26, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources? 

message: Ian Kershaw is the author of the recent 2-volume definitive biography of Hitler, Joachim C. Fest is the author of the first major biography, and Michael Burleigh is the author of the recent The Third Reich: A New History.  These are not WP:FRINGE writers, they are major players in this area, and they all agree that there was no coherent political philosophy behind "National Socialism", that it tried to be all things to all people in order to attract voters, and after the "seizure of power", all it really stood for was whatever Hitler demanded.  Early on it tried in vain to combine radical nationalism with socialism (and when Ernst Rohm became too wedded to the socialism part, he was eliminated), but about the only thing it really stood for was getting into power, at first by putsch and then by electoral politics.  Its most consistent aspects were nationalism, anti-Bolshevism and antisemitism, but even the latter was significantly under-emphasized during the electoral politics period.  There really is no ideology called "National Socialism" - which is not to say that Naziism didn't exist, that it wasn't virulent and dangerous and extremely destructive, it's just that in terms of a political philosophy, there was no "there" there.  BMK (talk) 22:20, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: A political ideology does not have to be consistent to be an ideology - it just has to be named and espoused by someone. There is such a thing as national socialism. What National Socialism "really" stands for is irrelevant, it is what all Nazi and National socialist parties adhere to. The same argument could be made for all communist parties in the world, none of which in practice stand for the same thing, and all of which are highly flexible in the practical ways that they combine ideological elements and practices. Regardless of what is in the Hitler article or any general work on Nazism, this article will have to be informed by the literature on the American Nazi party. So unless you can produce a soure throwing doubt on whether they were really national socialists or rather something else, your proposed edits are not possible to make.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 00:02, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Precisely. It doesn't take much for something to be an "ideology". Some scholars might disagree, but they are quite certainly a distinct minority in this case. -- Director (talk) 04:19, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a political ideology called "National Socialism" 

message: I have made the lead conform to the information in the article as it stands per WP:LEAD. JbhTalk 22:40, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: This logo is not proper unless someone wants to claim that the Nazi's had web addresses in the 1960's. Removing as anachronistic. JbhTalk 22:44, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Logo in Infobox

message: There is currently a fundamental mismatch between the content on the infobox and the main article, including the lead. The infobox lists leaders following the official break up of the party up to the present day. According to the lead,
Since the late 1960s, there have been a number of small groups that have used the name "American Nazi Party". 
The post-1967 listings in the infobox may be perceived as implicit claims of continuity and possible (false) validation of the history of the current grouping. I believe this is a relevant  editorial concern that needs to be addressed on this protected page.
(Of note, the RS used to reference Suhayda's leadership of the  "American Nazi Party"  does not discuss the history of the current grouping, and therefore should not be used to verify leadership of the original, historical American Nazi Party.)
86.189.140.44 (talk) 08:47, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  A concerning infobox mismatch 

message: Southern Poverty Law Center is a highly unreliable and discredied source
Socialist party is far left, not far right
I don't want to write it and did not even read it but those are glaring faults  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.220.64.164 (talk) 09:33, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the usual tired canard and as unsourced as always. --Orange Mike | Talk 05:22, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page has problems listed below 

message: I would suggest changing the definition of the ANP to something other than far-right.
In the sentence after describing the ANP as "far-right" you make note of the previous name of the organization (World Union of Free Enterprise National Socialists).
Now, is socialism a "right" or "left" ideology?  If your answer is "left" then why does adding "World Union of Free Enterprise National" to the name move the political ideology to the right? 
Isint socialism inherently a "left-wing" ideology?  According to wikipedia, it is (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum)
I guess the best question is:
Which model, as detailed in your Political Spectrum page, did you use to make this classification for the ANP?
It would seem that the most appropriate classification for the ANP, based on the Double-Axis Political Compass model would be that of "Authoritarian Left" 2602:306:30D2:40D0:2839:B635:775C:F019 (talk) 08:30, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: According to Wikipedia, the Nazi party had its origins in a league called the Freier Arbeiterausschuss für einen guten Frieden (Free Workers' Committee for a good Peace) which was created in Bremen, Germany. On 7 March 1918, Anton Drexler, a German nationalist, formed a branch of this league in Munich. On 5 January 1919, Drexler created a new political party and proposed it should be named the "German Socialist Workers' Party", but an associate of his, Karl Harrer, objected to the term "socialist"; so the term was removed and the party was named the German Workers' Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, DAP). To ease concerns among potential middle-class supporters, Drexler made clear that unlike Marxists, the party supported the middle-class, and that its socialist policy was meant to give social welfare to German citizens deemed part of the Aryan race. The American Nazi Party uses a term of German derivation (Nazi), so their usage of the word Nazi can be said to have originated with the Germans, and if not shared by them in reasons for use, then were at least done for the name recognition that the term already possessed.  10:31, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

text: Well... no, that edit ain't gonna happen. This placement on the political spectrum is based on a decades-long consensus among political scientists, historians and journalists that this is where the NSDAP belongs. Efforts to alter this fact are based either on variations of the etymological fallacy or on ideological crusades for The Truth™ as the crusader sees it. (In recent years, these have mostly been fueled by Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism, a contemptible political screed widely dismissed by all serious historians and political scientists.) --Orange Mike | Talk 02:42, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing the placement of the ANP on the Political Spectrum 

message: Remove the uncited sentence:
"On January 1, 1967, Rockwell renamed the ANP the National Socialist White People's Party (NSWPP), a move that alienated some hard-line members."
Replace with cited sentence:
"The party changed its name in 1968 to the National Socialist White People's Party and set up headquarters in Arlington, Virginia.https://www.trackingterrorism.org/group/american-nazi-party"
Any information related to Rockwell changing the name should be removed as well as Rockwell was assassinated in 1967.  If the name was changed in 1968, then he didnt do it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:30D2:40D0:2839:B635:775C:F019 (talk) 02:25, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The TRAC article is so short and sketchy as to be useless. I cannot see any reason we need to treat it as a reliable source. --Orange Mike | Talk 02:48, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: On the other hand, if you read the footnote at the end of that paragraph, you will find a link to a far more extensive reference work, which gives a date (1966) for Rockwell's change of name, and the members' reactions to it. --Orange Mike | Talk 02:53, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  The demand (not a good way to get what you want in these here parts) of the IP are not backed up by reliable sources. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:14, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of incorrect, uncited information regarding the renaming of the ANP to the NSWPP 

message: Miss Identifies the group as Right, even though they state clearly they are socialists 
Racial Greetings White Brothers and Sisters!
The American Nazi Party is a Political-Educational Association, dedicated to the 14 WORDS. We are committed to bringing American National Socialism, first created and embodied by our late Commander George Lincoln Rockwell, out of the past Phase One activities which at the time served their purpose well, and into the 21st Century Prconfer (talk) 18:14, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DBigXrayᗙ 19:45, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2018