Talk:NBA conference finals

message: *2005  E  TNT   Marv Albert, Doug Collins, Steve Kerr
      W  ABC   Al Michaels, Hubie Brown (g1, g4)
      W  ESPN  Mike Breen, Bill Walton (g2, g3, g5)
*2004  E  ESPN  Brad Nessler, Doc Rivers
      W  TNT   Marv Albert, Mike Fratello, Doug Collins
*2003  E  ABC   Brad Nessler, Bill Walton, Tom Tolbert (g1, g3)
      E  ESPN  Brad Nessler, Bill Walton, Tom Tolbert (g2, g4)
      W  TNT   Marv Albert, Mike Fratello, Jeff Van Gundy
*2002  E  NBC   Mike Breen, PJ Carlesimo (g1, g3-g6)
      E  TNT   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown, Mike Fratello (g2)
      W  NBC   Marv Albert, Doug Collins, Bill Walton (g1, g3-g7)
      W  TNT   Kevin Harlan, Danny Ainge, John Thompson (g2)
*2001  E  TNT   Marv Albert, Mike Fratello (g1)
      E  TNT   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g2)
      E  NBC   Mike Breen, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g3-g7)
      W  NBC   Marv Albert, Doug Collins (g1, g3, g4)
      W  TNT   Kevin Harlan, Danny Ainge, John Thompson (g2)
*2000  E  TNT   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g1, g2)
      E  NBC   Tom Hammond, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g3-g6)
      W  NBC   Bob Costas, Doug Collins (g1, g3-g7)
      W  TBS   Kevin Harlan, Danny Ainge, John Thompson (g2)
*1999  E  NBC   Tom Hammond, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g1, g3-g6)
      E  TNT   Kevin Harlan, Doc Rivers, Hubie Brown (g2)
      W  NBC   Bob Costas, Doug Collins
*1998  E  NBC   Bob Costas, Doug Collins, Isiah Thomas (g1, g3-g7)
      E  TNT   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g2)
      W  NBC   Tom Hammond, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g1, g4)
      W  TNT   Kevin Harlan, Doc Rivers (g2, g3)
  
*1997  E  TNT   Verne Lundquist (?), Doc Rivers (?) (g1, g2)
      E  NBC   Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g3-g5)
      W  TNT   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g1-g3)
      W  NBC   Greg Gumbel, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g4-g6)
      
*1996  E  NBC   Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g1, g3, g4)
      E  TNT   Verne Lundquist, Danny Ainge (g2)
      W  NBC   Greg Gumbel, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g1, g4-g7)
      W  TNT   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g2-g3)      
*1995  E  TNT   Ron Thulin, Hubie Brown (g1, g2)
      E  NBC   Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g3-g7)
      W  TNT   Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1-g3)
      W  NBC   Greg Gumbel, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g4-g6)
*1994  E  TNT   Ron Thulin, Hubie Brown (g1-g2)
      E  NBC   Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g3-g7)
      W  TNT   Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1-g3)
      W  NBC   Dick Enberg, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g4, g5)
*1993  E  NBC   Marv Albert, Mike Fratello (g1, g3-g6)
      E  TNT   Ron Thulin, Hubie Brown (g2)
 
      W  TNT   Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1-g3)
      W  NBC   Dick Enberg, Steve Jones (g4-g7)
*1992  E  TNT   Bob Neal, Hubie Brown (g1-g2)
      E  NBC   Marv Albert, Mike Fratello (g3-g6)
      W  NBC   Dick Enberg, Steve Jones, Magic Johnson (g1) 
      W  TNT   Ron Thulin, Doug Collins (g2, g3)
      W  NBC   Dick Enberg, Steve Jones, Cotton Fitzsimmons (g4-g6) 
*1991  E  NBC   Marv Albert, Mike Fratello (g1, g3, g4)
      E  TNT   Ron Thulin (?) , Hubie Brown (g2)
      W  NBC   Dick Enberg, Steve Jones (g1, g4-g6)
      W  TNT   Bob Neal (?) , Doug Collins (g2, g3)
*1990  E  CBS   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g1, g3, g4)
      E  TNT   Skip Caray, Doug Collins (g2)
      E  TNT   Bob Neal, ?? (g5)
      E  CBS   Verne Lundquist, Len Elmore (g6, g7)
      W  TNT   ??, ?? (g1, g3)
      W  TNT   Bob Neal, ? (g2)
      W  CBS   Verne Lundquist, Len Elmore (g4, g5)
      W  CBS   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g6)
*1989  E  CBS   Brent Musburger, Bill Raftery (g1)
      E  TBS   Skip Caray, Rick Barry (g2)
      E  CBS   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g3, g4, g6)
      E  TBS   Skip Caray, Steve Jones (g5)
      W  CBS   Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g1)
      W  TBS   Bob Neal, Steve Jones (g2, g3)
      W  CBS   Brent Musburger, Bill Raftery (g4)
*1988  E  TBS   Skip Caray, Rick Barry (g1, g2, g5)
      E  CBS   Dick Stockton, Billy Cunningham (g3, g4, g6)
      W  TBS   Bob Neal, Steve Jones (g1-g3)
      W  CBS   Brent Musburger, Tom Heinsohn (g4-g7)
*1987  E  TBS   Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1, g2, g5 (?) )
      E  CBS   Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g3, g4, g6)
      W  CBS   Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g1)
      W  TBS   Mel Proctor, Bill Russell (g2, g3)
      W  CBS   Brent Musburger, Billy Cunningham (g4)
*1986  E  n/a   no national TV (g1)
      E  TBS   Skip Caray, John Andariese (g2)
      E  CBS   ??,?? (g3, g4)
      W  CBS   ??,?? (g1, g3, g4)
      W  TBS   Rick Barry, Bill Russell (g2)
      W  CBS   Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g5)
*1985  E  CBS   Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g1, g3, g4)
      E  TBS   Skip Caray, John Andariese (g2)
      E  TBS   ??,?? (g5)
      W  CBS   Brent Musburger, Hubie Brown (g1, g3, g4)
      W  TBS   Rick Barry, Bill Russell (g2)
   
*1984  E  ESPN  ??,?? (g1, g2)
      E  CBS   Dick Stockton, Bill Russell (g3)
      E  USA   ??,?? (g4, g5)
      W  CBS   ??,?? (g1, g2, g4, g5) 
      W  CBS   Brent Musburger, Kevin Loughery (g3, g6)
          
*1983  E  CBS   Dick Stockton, Bill Russell (g1, g3, g4)
      E  ESPN  ??,?? (g2)
      E  USA   ??,?? (g5)
      W  CBS   Brent Musburger, Kevin Loughery (g1-g4)
      W  CBS   ??,?? (g5)
      W  CBS   Dick Stockton, Bill Russell (g6)
*1982  E  CBS   Dick Stockton, Bill Russell (g1, g6, g7)
      W  CBS
*1981  E  CBS   Dick Stockton, Kevin Loughery (g5-g7)
      W  CBS   Gary Bender, Rick Barry, Bill Russell (g5)
*1980  E  CBS   Gary Bender, Rick Barry (g2)
      W  CBS
*1979  E  CBS
      W  CBS   Brent Musburger, Rick Barry, (g7)
*1978  E  CBS   
      W  CBS
*1977  E  CBS
      W  CBS   Brent Musburger, Rick Barry, Mendy Rudolph (g2, g4)
*1976  E  CBS   
      W  CBS   Don Criqui, Jerry West (g4, g7)
*1975  E  CBS
      W  CBS   Brent Musburger, Oscar Robertson (g7)
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/sportscasting_history/
—TMC1982, 2:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Voices of the NBA Conference Finals

message: Perhaps we could include, for each table, which teams had home court, which teams were division leaders, and which teams were conference leaders at season's end.
DaDoc540 00:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Home Court, Division Champions, and Regular Season Conference Champions 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
----
:NBA Conference Finals →  – Per MOS:CAPS, WP:NCCAPS, etc.; the only part of this that's consistently capped in sources, in sentence context, is the acronym NBA.  "NBA Conference Finals", "NBA Conference Final", "NBA Conference", "Conference Finals", and plain "Conference" are not proper names, and are not close to consistently capped in sources.  See discussion in section above. Dicklyon (talk) 16:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, so did we misunderstand you above as indicating that you found a lot of mixed "NBA Conference finals"?  I do see "Eastern Conference finals" and "Western Conference finals" (which explain some of the lowercase "finals" you see a lot of), but no "NBA Conference finals".  And most of your links (at least the ones I can access) do not show any instance of "NBA Conference Finals" in sentences; some of the lowercase ones do find "NBA conference finals" and "NBA conference semifinals" in sentences.  Maybe you or someone can go through and find the ones that cap in sentences, and quote them or something, as the long list of links there is presently just misleading.  Keep in mind that WP:NCCAPS says For multiword page titles, one should leave the second and subsequent words in lowercase unless the title phrase is a proper name that would always occur capitalized, even mid-sentence. Dicklyon (talk) 18:33, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you might be misinterpreting it. That's on me. You are looking for generic usage of the title right? Since that I think is a lot rarer. Unfortunately for everyone, it's almost always Eastern/Western Conference finals/semifinals. If that's what you want, please give me some time to find them. I may consider changing my !vote if this article started out as lowercase, otherwise, it is yet another no consensus we approach. Conyo14 (talk) 19:31, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether it's generic or proper, the point is to decide, by looking at uses of the title phrase in sentences.  If you don't find it uppercase "consistently", then the capitalization is a style choice, and WP style is to choose lowercase. Dicklyon (talk) 22:11, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  some of your sources say the opposite of what you're indicating. For example  and  both use conference in sentence case, except when explicitly referencing the proper names of Western Conference and Eastern Conference. Those titles should therfore be included in your  list, not your . Please could you revamp the list above so that it reflects the actual usage, then we can make an informed decision as to which way to !vote in this discussion. Currently I'm leaning towards lowercase conference, but would like to see the full data as you've assessed it. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 17:32, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed that, but due to some outside-of-Wiki stuff happening, I won't have the time to find others. Conyo14 (talk) 17:16, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

text: The Newspapers.com link was just a TV Guide listing, which automatically use title case for anything. The Sportsnet link is captialized for "Eastern Conference Finals", not "NBA Conference Finals". For the China Daily link, I wouldn't trust is an an authority on English style. Philippine Canadian Enquirer link is again not for "NBA Conference Finals", WP:SPORTSKEEDA is not reliable.  And the lowercase list seems arbitrary—glaring omission of ESPN and The New York Times, among others. Agree with Amakuru, the list is misleading. —Bagumba (talk) 07:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I just trusted that these links showed what Conyo14 said they did (which still would not be enough to capitalize this on Wikipedia), but seeing the above comments, I decided to go over these links myself, I have to agree with Dicklyon, Amakuru, and Bagumba: There is four-editor unanimity that these sources do not at all show what Conyo14 claims they do, but primarily a) capitalization in title-case headings/headlines, which capitalize everything, b) capitalization of other terms like "Western Conference" and "Eastern Conference", and c) lowercase or mixed-case of "NBA conference finals" in article text in most instances. The "upppercase" claim about them is grossly misleading, but at least one editor has already fallen for it.Taken in the order Conyo14 gave them in his "uppercase" section: Lowercase throughout (Eastern Conf. & W. Conf. capitalized). Title-case TV listings in which every word of everything is uppercase. Capitalized in headline; not found in body text (EC & WC capitalized). Actually capitalized in text. Lowercased in text (uppercased in title, EC & WC capitalized). Actually capitalized in text, in that article, but elsewhere on same site, lower- and uppercase mixed in same page (). Capitalized in headline; does not appear in body; EC/WC capped; unreliable source for English. Capitalized in headline; does not appear in body; EC/WC capped; unreliable source for American English and American sports]. Actually capitalized in text. Capitalized in text, but unereliable source for American English and American sports. Mixed case in the same article, not consitent uppercase (EC/WC capped). Capitalized in headline, not body; EC/EW capped; unreliable source for Am. Eng. & sports. Capitalized in text, but another source not reliable for Am. Eng. & sports. Actually capitalized in the body.  Mixed case in the same article, not consitent uppercase (EC/WC capped); but unreliable WP:UGC site anyway. Not an article, and shows only headlines; another article at same site, though, does capitalize in text; however, other materials by the same publisher do not (, etc. - not cherry picked, just the first 5 search results); often capitalizes EC/WC but not always . Not verifiable; UK site "unavailable in your region"; not a reliable source for Am. Eng./sports. Capitalized in headline & headings, not body text; found articles there with lowercase in body text, lowercase in headline, and mixed usage in body; EC/WC capped often but not always; very unlikely to be RS anyway: "a Sports fan web site and is in no way affiliated with any media organization, any professional sports league, team, organization, or its Properties", and knows not what to capitalize at all. Does capitalize in body text – but just in that article; uses lowercase in body and headline ( – didn't find another case of them capitalizing it); caps EC/WC. Finally, failed verification yet again: Lowercase and in the full form "National Basketball Association finals" (also uses "NBA draft" later in same page; something that will likely be relevant later). BTW, of the sources that capitalized Eastern/Western Conference, only about half capitalized "final[s]" after it. Several also lowercased plural "Eastern and Western conferences", the way would be "Harvard and Oxford universities".I checked, individually and in order, every source for which "uppercase" was claimed (other than the irrelevant region-blocked one), including the paywalled Newspapers.com stuff (via TWL). Only a very small number of Conyo14's claims about these sources were correct, but often for publications of no relevance to or reliability for American English and sports. Lowercase in running text clearly predominated in this source material he put in the uppercase box for some reason. I have to point out here, as I did at a thread very similar to this, that .   — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

text: The fact that "NBA Conference Finals" and "NBA Conference finals" don't even show up in ngrams at all is a clear demonstration that it is not a proper name, but is an WP:NDESC Wikipedians have used, to have a merged article on the NBA Eastern Conference finals and NBA Western Conference finals. I have no idea what the desire is to argue and argue and argue to capitalize stuff like this, but it unmistakably fails MOS:CAPS and WP:NCCAPS. To the very limited extent our NDESC has attested usage in external source material at all, it veers back and forth between capitalization styles , so it is not consistently capitalized (treated as a proper name) in independent reliable sources.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:08, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

text: Broad concept Yes, "NBA conference finals" is basically a descriptive English term for the WP:BROADCONCEPT covering the individual NBA Eastern Conference finals and NBA Western Conference finals. The verbose proposed title of "NBA Western Conference and Eastern Conference finals" fails WP:PRECISION and WP:CONCISE compared to the generic "NBA conference finals".—Bagumba (talk) 04:01, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: But maybe NBA Eastern and Western Conference finals would be an OK compromise if Randy and Bruce don't accept the generic/descriptive term for the pair?  I'd prefer the more concise one still, even though it's a term not often seen in sources (and never capped in sources). Dicklyon (talk) 16:21, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The shortened "NBA conference finals" is used in sources, and anyways its a basic English description that readers can comprehend. Is there a more compelling reason for a longer title? —Bagumba (talk) 00:21, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: No reason I can see. RK likes it (I'm guessing because it has more capitals in it), but it fails several of the WP:CRITERIA. As noted above, another option (for a different kind of discussion) would be WP:SPLIT; it's not at all clear that these need to be jammed together in one article, and I'm rather surprised that they have been (various other sports projects would not have tolerated such a borderline mutual-WP:COATRACKing).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:14, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the current prose is generic for both conferences, and it's not too big.  I wouldn't split simply to circumvent the MOS:CAPS debate. —Bagumba (talk) 03:33, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, it just seems weird (at least from a sports coverage perspective) to have both series of finals in the same article. I'm not concerned about where the RM is going.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  07:56, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 20 January 2024 

message: * Book n-grams don't find the full title (it doesn't appear in enough books).  But it does show NBA Conference as only about half capped.  And if you preface that with "the" to restrict to sentence contexts, it shows nothing but lowercase conference.
* Book search finds both upper- and lower-case uses in sentences, and just one of the "compromise" mixed-case version.
* News search finds mostly lowercase except in the context of specific conference names, like NBA Eastern Conference Finals.  I don't see any of the mixed-case that GoodDay suggests (which Conyo14 said he has found a bunch of, but hasn't said where).
Anyone else who finds evidence in sources, please link it here. Dicklyon (talk) 17:00, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, so did we misunderstand you above as indicating that you found a lot of mixed "NBA Conference finals"?  I do see "Eastern Conference finals" and "Western Conference finals" (which explain some of the lowercase "finals" you see a lot of), but no "NBA Conference finals".  And most of your links (at least the ones I can access) do not show any instance of "NBA Conference Finals" in sentences; some of the lowercase ones do find "NBA conference finals" and "NBA conference semifinals" in sentences.  Maybe you or someone can go through and find the ones that cap in sentences, and quote them or something, as the long list of links there is presently just misleading.  Keep in mind that WP:NCCAPS says For multiword page titles, one should leave the second and subsequent words in lowercase unless the title phrase is a proper name that would always occur capitalized, even mid-sentence. Dicklyon (talk) 18:33, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you might be misinterpreting it. That's on me. You are looking for generic usage of the title right? Since that I think is a lot rarer. Unfortunately for everyone, it's almost always Eastern/Western Conference finals/semifinals. If that's what you want, please give me some time to find them. I may consider changing my !vote if this article started out as lowercase, otherwise, it is yet another no consensus we approach. Conyo14 (talk) 19:31, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether it's generic or proper, the point is to decide, by looking at uses of the title phrase in sentences.  If you don't find it uppercase "consistently", then the capitalization is a style choice, and WP style is to choose lowercase. Dicklyon (talk) 22:11, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  some of your sources say the opposite of what you're indicating. For example  and  both use conference in sentence case, except when explicitly referencing the proper names of Western Conference and Eastern Conference. Those titles should therfore be included in your  list, not your . Please could you revamp the list above so that it reflects the actual usage, then we can make an informed decision as to which way to !vote in this discussion. Currently I'm leaning towards lowercase conference, but would like to see the full data as you've assessed it. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 17:32, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed that, but due to some outside-of-Wiki stuff happening, I won't have the time to find others. Conyo14 (talk) 17:16, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

text: The Newspapers.com link was just a TV Guide listing, which automatically use title case for anything. The Sportsnet link is captialized for "Eastern Conference Finals", not "NBA Conference Finals". For the China Daily link, I wouldn't trust is an an authority on English style. Philippine Canadian Enquirer link is again not for "NBA Conference Finals", WP:SPORTSKEEDA is not reliable.  And the lowercase list seems arbitrary—glaring omission of ESPN and The New York Times, among others. Agree with Amakuru, the list is misleading. —Bagumba (talk) 07:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I just trusted that these links showed what Conyo14 said they did (which still would not be enough to capitalize this on Wikipedia), but seeing the above comments, I decided to go over these links myself, I have to agree with Dicklyon, Amakuru, and Bagumba: There is four-editor unanimity that these sources do not at all show what Conyo14 claims they do, but primarily a) capitalization in title-case headings/headlines, which capitalize everything, b) capitalization of other terms like "Western Conference" and "Eastern Conference", and c) lowercase or mixed-case of "NBA conference finals" in article text in most instances. The "upppercase" claim about them is grossly misleading, but at least one editor has already fallen for it.Taken in the order Conyo14 gave them in his "uppercase" section: Lowercase throughout (Eastern Conf. & W. Conf. capitalized). Title-case TV listings in which every word of everything is uppercase. Capitalized in headline; not found in body text (EC & WC capitalized). Actually capitalized in text. Lowercased in text (uppercased in title, EC & WC capitalized). Actually capitalized in text, in that article, but elsewhere on same site, lower- and uppercase mixed in same page (). Capitalized in headline; does not appear in body; EC/WC capped; unreliable source for English. Capitalized in headline; does not appear in body; EC/WC capped; unreliable source for American English and American sports]. Actually capitalized in text. Capitalized in text, but unereliable source for American English and American sports. Mixed case in the same article, not consitent uppercase (EC/WC capped). Capitalized in headline, not body; EC/EW capped; unreliable source for Am. Eng. & sports. Capitalized in text, but another source not reliable for Am. Eng. & sports. Actually capitalized in the body.  Mixed case in the same article, not consitent uppercase (EC/WC capped); but unreliable WP:UGC site anyway. Not an article, and shows only headlines; another article at same site, though, does capitalize in text; however, other materials by the same publisher do not (, etc. - not cherry picked, just the first 5 search results); often capitalizes EC/WC but not always . Not verifiable; UK site "unavailable in your region"; not a reliable source for Am. Eng./sports. Capitalized in headline & headings, not body text; found articles there with lowercase in body text, lowercase in headline, and mixed usage in body; EC/WC capped often but not always; very unlikely to be RS anyway: "a Sports fan web site and is in no way affiliated with any media organization, any professional sports league, team, organization, or its Properties", and knows not what to capitalize at all. Does capitalize in body text – but just in that article; uses lowercase in body and headline ( – didn't find another case of them capitalizing it); caps EC/WC. Finally, failed verification yet again: Lowercase and in the full form "National Basketball Association finals" (also uses "NBA draft" later in same page; something that will likely be relevant later). BTW, of the sources that capitalized Eastern/Western Conference, only about half capitalized "final[s]" after it. Several also lowercased plural "Eastern and Western conferences", the way would be "Harvard and Oxford universities".I checked, individually and in order, every source for which "uppercase" was claimed (other than the irrelevant region-blocked one), including the paywalled Newspapers.com stuff (via TWL). Only a very small number of Conyo14's claims about these sources were correct, but often for publications of no relevance to or reliability for American English and sports. Lowercase in running text clearly predominated in this source material he put in the uppercase box for some reason. I have to point out here, as I did at a thread very similar to this, that .   — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

text: The fact that "NBA Conference Finals" and "NBA Conference finals" don't even show up in ngrams at all is a clear demonstration that it is not a proper name, but is an WP:NDESC Wikipedians have used, to have a merged article on the NBA Eastern Conference finals and NBA Western Conference finals. I have no idea what the desire is to argue and argue and argue to capitalize stuff like this, but it unmistakably fails MOS:CAPS and WP:NCCAPS. To the very limited extent our NDESC has attested usage in external source material at all, it veers back and forth between capitalization styles , so it is not consistently capitalized (treated as a proper name) in independent reliable sources.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:08, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

text: Broad concept Yes, "NBA conference finals" is basically a descriptive English term for the WP:BROADCONCEPT covering the individual NBA Eastern Conference finals and NBA Western Conference finals. The verbose proposed title of "NBA Western Conference and Eastern Conference finals" fails WP:PRECISION and WP:CONCISE compared to the generic "NBA conference finals".—Bagumba (talk) 04:01, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: But maybe NBA Eastern and Western Conference finals would be an OK compromise if Randy and Bruce don't accept the generic/descriptive term for the pair?  I'd prefer the more concise one still, even though it's a term not often seen in sources (and never capped in sources). Dicklyon (talk) 16:21, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The shortened "NBA conference finals" is used in sources, and anyways its a basic English description that readers can comprehend. Is there a more compelling reason for a longer title? —Bagumba (talk) 00:21, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: No reason I can see. RK likes it (I'm guessing because it has more capitals in it), but it fails several of the WP:CRITERIA. As noted above, another option (for a different kind of discussion) would be WP:SPLIT; it's not at all clear that these need to be jammed together in one article, and I'm rather surprised that they have been (various other sports projects would not have tolerated such a borderline mutual-WP:COATRACKing).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:14, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the current prose is generic for both conferences, and it's not too big.  I wouldn't split simply to circumvent the MOS:CAPS debate. —Bagumba (talk) 03:33, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, it just seems weird (at least from a sports coverage perspective) to have both series of finals in the same article. I'm not concerned about where the RM is going.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  07:56, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Some data in evidence