Talk:Edmund Hillary/Archive 2

message: I've heard quite a few places that he spells his last name "Hilary," not "Hillary." Googling both gives many hits. 1) What IS his real name?  2) Is the spelling controversial, or disputed, or often given incorrectly, or ??? (If YES, this article should mention it and set it straight.) Lou Sander 03:18, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's Hillary. Moriori 02:42, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, anyone's name can be spelled incorrectly by some people, which is likely true for most names, but a man is hardly likely to misspell his own name. There is no controversy or dispute when one can go to the source himself. Hillary spelled his own name with two L's, however else other people may have chosen to spell it. Mamarazzi (talk) 00:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling / Speling 

message: "*Arriving back to base, after climbing everest his first words were "well George, I finaly knocked the bastard off.." it is not known if he was refering to King george or his mate also named george."  
King George VI died over a year before, so most unlikely. GrahamBould 16:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And most assuredly Hillary said "we" knocked it off  and not "I" knocked it off. I have fixed that part of it.. Moriori 21:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

text: FWIW, it's an affectionate colloquialism in most English-speaking countires.  We still use "bastard" in that sense here in the U. S. Sir Rhosis (talk) 12:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: King George

message: Please check the external links as some don't appear to work.
Also the link to Wairoa should be to this Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wairoa_River%2C_Northland.  The Northern Wairoa is called that because it's the Wairoa in Northland, not in the Hawkes Bay.  Sorry, I'm an amateur here and don't know how to do the fixing myself.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.184.14.87 (talk) 05:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Wairoa link is fixed. -- Avenue (talk) 07:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: :Image:EdHillaryonNZfiver.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
— Save_Us_229 01:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:EdHillaryonNZfiver.jpg

message: Have done one edit at top of article. There will be quite a few more edits required - someone? Thanks. rossnixon 22:36, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please keep his death date (In New Zealand) to the New Zealand date (11 January 2008). Stop changing it to the 10th! rossnixon 23:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm up to about my third or fourth revert of the date of death. Almost tempted to semi-protect. Evil Monkey - Hello 23:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking the same myself.  I think you should.  The continual date-changing is disruptive, with the editing going on a revert to fix the date could remove valuable content. -- Mattinbgn\talk 23:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done now, 1 day. I lost patience.  Feel free to remove if you think necessary. -- Mattinbgn\talk 23:57, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest removing semi-protection and putting a temporary parenthetical remark (New Zealand date and time) after the date of death. Dfeuer (talk) 01:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We tried this earlier but people didn't seem to get itNengscoz416 (talk) 01:32, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Added "hidden" note that editors will notice. Should help. rossnixon 02:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes that seems to have worked. From my experience hidden comments do tend to work resonably well in discouraging well meaning but flawed contributions Nil Einne (talk) 10:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I've unprotected it. Hopefully now past the rush of people trying to change the date. Evil Monkey - Hello 00:33, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I know it has been said that he was an atheist. But if he was, why did he have religious scruples about military service, and why was his funeral at St Mary's (Anglican) Church?JohnC (talk) 03:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks people, for doing a great job of this page, and of the obituary. RIP Sir Ed: one of New Zealand's and the World's quiet, modest and great humans. Minorhistorian (talk) 04:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sir Ed has passed away

message: Why would he just die for no reason after living for 55 years after his ascent with no ill effects?  What did he learn up there that someone would want to keep quiet?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.15.164.91 (talk) 05:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Brilliant! 130.216.68.41 (talk) 05:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I smell a Da Vinci Code ripoff! heheh... Patriarch (talk) 05:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suspicious 

message: ===Quote at the beginning===
Well, George, We knocked the bastard off
I believe that this quote should be placed on this page. It is the words of Sir Ed after he came down Mount Everest. Sir Ed is definitely a New Zealand icon, and that shows the New Zealand way - always make something you have done seem less than it is.
I added it, but it has since been removed. Who is with me that this should go back up?
Drkshadowmaster (talk) 09:02, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A search for "quote" in edit summaries, and consulting a version 500 edits back (2007 May) suggests that the absence is of long standing. I think it is an error, but my boldness in editing is tempered by the current pace of editing, so i'll limit myself for now to challenging that error on this talk page. --Jerzy•t 19:56, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I see in #"Because it was there"? that at least i am not alone in confusing Mallory's and Hillary's questionable quotes. --Jerzy•t 07:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes 

message: Well, George, We knocked the bastard off
I believe that this quote should be placed on this page. It is the words of Sir Ed after he came down Mount Everest. Sir Ed is definitely a New Zealand icon, and that shows the New Zealand way - always make something you have done seem less than it is.
I added it, but it has since been removed. Who is with me that this should go back up?
Drkshadowmaster (talk) 09:02, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Quote at the beginning

message: I agree that "knocked the bastard off", is of questionable encyclopedicity. On the other hand, (but like quotes in the "philanthropy" section) the (AFAIK false) attribution to him of "Because it's there" and the  (apparently documented) "I can't give you any fresh answers to why a man climbs mountains. The majority go just to climb them." are at the center of most of the world's understanding of him, which is an important aspect of the bio. I'm going to look for those in the history w/ intent to restore. --Jerzy•t 19:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A search for "quote" in edit summaries, and consulting a version 500 edits back (2007 May) suggests that the absence is of long standing. I think it is an error, but my boldness in editing is tempered by the current pace of editing, so i'll limit myself for now to challenging that error on this talk page. --Jerzy•t 19:56, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I see in #"Because it was there"? that at least i am not alone in confusing Mallory's and Hillary's questionable quotes. --Jerzy•t 07:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why climb? 

message: While generally an excellent article, flags CANNOT be flown "half-mast" ashore.   They are flown "half-staff."  Thanks.
Srennick (talk) 15:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Normal colloquial British/Commonwealth usage is half-mast, regardless of location.  David Underdown (talk) 15:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Half-staff, NOT half-mast 

message: According to his biography in Christchurch City Libraries, he was born in Auckland, not in Tuakau, but his parents moved south to Tuakau before his younger brother, Rex, was born.Puddy (talk) 23:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The nzhistory.net.nz site agrees, and gives further details. I'll correct our article accordingly. -- Avenue (talk) 00:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I believe he was born in Tuacow. All of the news bulletins through out the day yesterday, in New Zealand, said that he was born in Tuacow, and so did the documentary about his life last night. I am not sure who is wrong, but TVNZ is usually not too bad with their facts... Drkshadowmaster (talk) 04:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: spelt Tuakau. Māori words never end in a consonant. --Hugh7 (talk) 06:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd rather trust a biography written by a government department (which is the fullest I've seen yet) than news stories probably written under time pressure on the day of someone's death. Anyway, the majority of the news stories I've read have said he was born in Auckland. -- Avenue (talk) 07:08, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Place of birth 

message: http://www.celebatheists.com/?title=Sir_Edmund_Hillary  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.139.242 (talk) 00:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That interview seems ambiguous about exactly what Hillary believed. It indicates he did not believe in appealing to the supernatural in difficult situations, and (by 1991) did not prescribe any particular belief for others. He is quoted above as saying ""Now, I'm not at all religious, ...". However, Hillary was not an atheist earlier in his life, at least; see Edmund Hillary and Radiant Living (also discussed above).  -- Avenue (talk) 00:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atheism 

message: Should the page not be called Sir Edmund Hillary, not Edmund Hillary? He was knighted over 50 years ago.... Drkshadowmaster (talk) 04:52, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia policy is to not include such honorifics in article titles. Evil Monkey - Hello 05:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is fairly sensible. Who wants to have to type in Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith every time?. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 16:36, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is that really her proper title in English?  I've seen the "of Great Britain Queen" style before, but always assumed it was just a misunderstanding of Latin word order (I've only ever seen the title "officially" in Latin, on coins etc. - "Dei gratia Britanniae omnis regina, fidei defensor," etc., which wouldn't normally be translated by such an awkward construct)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.160.30 (talk) 06:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page Name 

message: There's a mismatch between the info box and the text concerning place of birth. I would correct this, but I can't because some well-meaning but misguided admin has pre-emptively SPd the article FOR NO GOOD REASON (level of vandlaism doesn't merit it). This is typical now in Wikipedia. Slightest excuse and let's exclude the IPs. 86.0.87.88 (talk) 14:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Info Box 

message: Should nee really be used? "Gertrude Hillary, née Clark," Apparantly it is an english word ( I know its french) but I haven't seen it used anywhere else. It might confuse others. I think it should be changed to born. Kwiwii (talk) 23:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't change. It's commonly used in Birth, Marriage and Death notices. rossnixon 00:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it's perfectly acceptable in this context. -- Avenue (talk) 00:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I also agreeNengscoz416 (talk) 02:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

text:  Alright no problem. Kwiwii (talk) 05:33, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Née 

message: A popular belief — maybe an urban legend? — says that when asked why he climbed Mt. Everest, Hillary said "Because it was there".  That is not mentioned in this article.  Should it be? Michael Hardy (talk) 18:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's incorrect. First, it was not said about Hillary but about George Mallory, who died near the Everest summit nearly 30 years before Hillary successfully climbed it. And second, it's possibly even wrong about Mallory, as it was later suggested that a newspaper journalist came up with the phrase. Crum375 (talk) 18:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See Mallory's article lead for updated status. Crum375 (talk) 00:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, what Hillary said about Everest was "That's one small step for a beekeeper, and one giant leap for beekeeperkind.--HughGRex (talk) 14:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Because it was there"? 

message: In the family section no reference is provided for the suggestion that Amelia Hillary is active in the Himalayas.
Also, no mention of other grandchildren or Edmund Hillary's siblings, elder sister June Carlile and younger brother Rex.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aboy021 (talk • contribs) 03:08, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean this Amelia Hillary?  How notable is she? -- Mattinbgn\talk 03:14, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

text: His brother Rex is mentioned briefly in the "Youth" section. -- Avenue (talk) 04:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy 

message: Some people reverted this information due to a misunderstanding of WP:OR. Any information that can easily be verified by anyone is not OR, by definition. So the only issue is relevance, and in my opinion this coincidence is fascinating and adds some color to the article. Crum375 (talk) 02:21, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is purely a coincidence that in the prevailing measurement unit and number base, that his age in years and the height of Everest match. This is like the lame edit war over whether it should be mentioned that Darwin and Lincoln were born on the same day. It also depends on one particular measure of the height -- to the top of the snow cap, which is different from the height of the rock. Evil Monkey - Hello 03:17, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, no one is suggesting there is any magic to it, it's just a neat coincidence, which makes the article a more interesting read. Crum375 (talk) 03:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's an amazing cooincidence and well worth reporrting. Nothing more needs to be read into itGringoInChile (talk) 03:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I don't agree that it makes it interesting. I think it's worse than a pun, and just not appropriate here. -- Avenue (talk) 03:34, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Good point. It's completely irrelevant and unencyclopedic—it certainly doesn't belong in this article.--HughGRex (talk) 14:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Agreed there are all sorts of coincidences you could probably find several more related to Hillary when you hedge things in the way this was done. Thankfully most of them are deleted very fast from wikipedia. And of course, this trivia wouldn't even exist if the designers of the metric system had chosen a longer or shorter metre which just shows how silly it is. Nil Einne (talk) 08:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia section 

message: I think it would be worth nominating this article as a feature article. Anyone else agree? Leaderofearth (talk) 23:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not even close, in my view. However, if we get rid of the photo with "uncertain copyright status", expand our coverage of the funeral, and generally tidy it up, it would be worth trying for Good Article status. -- Avenue (talk) 02:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Personaly I think this is better than a couple of other FA's I have looked at about people. Leaderofearth (talk) 04:56, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Potential Feature Article

message: The funeral was at 11:00am not 11:50am so can the person that reverted my edit please stop. I know what time it was because I watched it live on TVNZ's Channel one. That source also doesn't actually give the time of the state funeral. 222.154.182.16 (talk) 05:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In the wider scheme of things, is the funeral time really relevant?  The date is probably sufficient. -- Mattinbgn\talk 06:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  In addition, personal observation (i.e., seeing it yourself on TV) is not verifiable, and constitutes Original Research.  138.23.246.11 (talk) 14:09, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  We could just do away with the time of the funeral all together, it seems unnecessary. HaereMai (talk) 20:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, remove it if no one disagrees. Give it 24hrs, then delete time. rossnixon 00:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done HaereMai (talk) 01:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time of funeral 

message: *Small part of biography (lacking) Does it not?
:Austerlitz -- 88.72.17.195 (talk) 07:19, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs to be added 

message: Since 90% of the edits to this page are just vandalism. Ropata (talk) 03:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requesting permanent semi-protection  

message: In accordance with his wishes, Hillary's ashes were scattered on the Hauraki Gulf by his wife, Lady Hillary and children Peter and Sarah today. See notice in NZ Herald. Jamie Mackay (talk) 10:25, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The reports today are saying that there was also a service in Nepal but it is still unclear as to whether this included some of his ashes. Not sure if it is worth including, but the Herald reports: 'Yesterday was the 49th day since Sir Ed died - the day that in the tradition of Tibetan Buddhism ends seven weeks of mourning.'Jamie Mackay (talk) 19:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ashes scattered 

message: :Image:Nz5d.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 14:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Nz5d.jpg

message: to editor:
In 1962-63 I was a field marine mammologist on board the m v Theron for several months collecting harp seal specimens off the coast of Labrador for the Fisheries Research Board of Canada. Captain Maru, the norwegian sealer remembered Ed  very well and often mentioned him in glowing terms . The same can not be said for V Fuchs howewver. I was berthed in the very same bunk Sir Ed had used only a few years previous. What luck!
John C  —Preceding unsigned comment added by John p christopher (talk • contribs) 20:52, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ed Hillary  on board the m v Theron en route  to antarctic  

message: The year of birth of his spouse is wrong. It cannot be 1953. His first sun was born in 1954 :D
:1953 isn't a birth date, it is a marriage date. -- Mattinbgn\talk 03:29, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Year of birth of his spouse 

message: I believe this article could make a good Did You Know for the main page, possibly along the lines of ... that Sir Edmund Hillary was the first person to climb Mount Everest, on May 29th 1953? Just an idea, Metagraph  comment 10:41, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is not eligible, unfortunately. See Wikipedia:Did you know: "DYK is not a general trivia section. DYK is only for articles that have been created, or expanded fivefold or more, within the last 5 days." -- Mattinbgn\talk 11:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible DYK 

message: I read Tenzing Norgay's memoires a few years back. In that book there was no word about Tenzing not being able to take photos. I even believe there were photos in the book taken by Tenzing years before Tenzing and Edmund Hillary climbed Mt Everest. I don't have the book anymore so I can't verify that ths is true. But I am pretty sure that Tenzing Norgay were able to handle a camera on the day he climbed Mt Everest. Hope someone can verify this for me and edit the page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.28.34.132 (talk) 06:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Joanna Wright's book, as footnoted in the article, says that Tenzing could not use a camera. She is obviously quoting Hillary. It is possible that what was meant was that Norgay had not used this particular camera, and this might be borne out by the unsourced quote from Hillary that appears in the Tenzing Norgay article: "Tenzing did not know how to operate the camera". I imagine that cameras of the day were less easy to use, and had less standardised controls than modern ones.-gadfium 08:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible error in text 

message: I once heard Hillary and in his talk he mentioned that Dr Roger Bannister examined him for fitness and had declared him unfit for the climb ! I am unable to find a WP:RS for this, but perhaps it exists somewhere. Shyamal (talk) 04:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Had the chronology wrong. http://www.napaman.com/napamancom/2008/01/sir-edmund-hill.html - according to this it was after the climb ! Shyamal (talk) 06:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Roger Bannister]]

message: A photo of Hillary in the Solomon Islands surfaced recently.  It appears to be copyrighted but, if not, could possibly be used in this article. Cla68 (talk) 01:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no harm in asking if it could be released under an appropriate license, she can only say no, but if she says yes, it would be a good addition to the article. David Underdown (talk) 09:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  World War II photo 

message: I have in my hand a copy of this book, dated 1955, blue cloth on boards, pub H&S.  therefore I am amending the article to reflect them as publishers, with OUP as reprints. Rich Farmbrough, 19:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  High adventure