Talk:Dies irae

message: I don't think it's correct to say that "The traditional Gregorian melody has also been used as a musical quotation" in the Britten War Requiem.  The WR does indeed set the text to the poem, but unless my memory deceives me, does not use the hymn tune anywhere.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.48.63 (talk) 05:29, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was going to ask the same. I remember the War Requiem quite well and can't think of where the Gregorian melody was used. -- megA (talk) 12:48, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Britten and the Gregorian Melody

message: The first section smacks of POV and commentary all over the place. This article is in serious need of revision.Cshobar 01:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen it both ways, but "Celaeno" seems to me to be the more frequently used, even if it is wrong.  Perhaps it's because Celaeno is the spelling H. P. Lovecraft used.  AAR, both are redirected to the same page.  -- Smerdis of Tlön 14:34, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: Was the poem written with j's or with i's? In good latin should be "i", right?
:See the article on J, which developed from I. Nowadays we are more classical in spelling. If a printed edition of Latin has Js it's a sign of age. Stroika 15:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  J or I???

message: ...to the commons or wikibook
--213.33.29.214 21:14, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poem itself should be moved... 

message: Whoever put the bit about the Dies Irae showing up all over Sweeney Todd, rock on! I just added a bit, and linked to the new page for the musical specifically. IvanP 18:12, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sweeney Todd 

message: It may be too obscure, but this is also the title of a book by Roger Zelazny.
:You're thinking Deus Irae.  His title translates differently. 68.104.201.53 06:43, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roger Zelazny 

message: It seems like the D-sharps in the notation ought to be E-flats...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.105.133.39 (talk) 04:46, 11 October 2005
:This is really a music theory question.  I'm not certain which notation you are referring to here (as the only written music on the page has no sharps), but I suspect that whatever key your piece is written in it uses a number of sharps.  Most people find it easier to remember additional sharps than a mixed collection of sharps and flats.  You might also be interested in the existance of the double sharp accidental --Speed8ump from 207.235.66.3 19:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notation accidentals? 

message: I seem to recall that, somewhere on Wikipedia, there used to be a link to a "super-literal" version - there the whole thing was broken down word-by-word, translated precisely, so that it really didn't make any sense - but you knew exactly what each word translated to.  It didn't read like any kind of coherent English.  The link to the "literal version", an external document, really doesn't go to the same length.
Does anyone recall the version I'm talking about?
I can't find it anymore, but would love to see that version again. (Unsigned)
:I'm not sure if this is it, but there is PDF scan online of [Chants of the Church] (Desclee, 1953), which includes the Dies Irae (pp. 53-67) and an interlinear English translation. It aims to be readable, so it's not always "super-literal", but it does give the translation of each word or phrase immediately below the Latin. Echevalier (talk) 02:50, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to "super-literal" version 

message: The Polish language version of this article links to a really nice disambiguation page: pl:Dies irae (ujednoznacznienie).
--82.170.209.184 23:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguation 

message: Where is the plainsong used in Salomé (the opera by Richard Strauss)? --Alexs letterbox 05:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Use in Salomé?

message: Well, this is crap.  "Foredooming"?  Are we serious, here?  I haven't read the whole thing, but this is just ridiculous.
There is no reason for the translation to rhyme.  None at all.  While the average joe might not be able to translate the Latin, the rhyme scheme is obvious.  I'd rather the translation didn't rhyme than for it to include non-words.
I don't want to unilaterally revert this mess, but, really, this is bad.
—  MusicMaker5376 07:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some editors seem to have a strong preference for a hymnal's rhyming translation.  As it stands now, only a few of the stanzas use that; the rest use the developed version of the fairly literal crib that was made collaboratively, and which still can be read in the history.  My preference remains to move the rhymes into the "Translation" section, and tell us who they are by, and leave the entire hymn translated as literally as English idiom allows. - Smerdis of Tlön 16:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's get rid of this silly translation. The rhymes are clumsy; they devalue the original verse. The translation doesn't have to be literal, but we should at least find something more elegant. RedRabbit1983 14:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Please don't feel the need to wait as the translation that you found is much better. The sooner we get it on this page the better I say and thanks for the research. MarnetteD | Talk 19:41, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  I put in the Irons translation today.  Glad you like it! Dgf32 02:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation (again) 

message: I didn't want to touch it, since I wasn't sure, but I think the use of the Dies Irae in the Star Wars film referenced under "Cinema" is Verdi's setting of the Dies Irae.  Can anyone corroborate me on this?   Simpsone4 05:19, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Star Wars Reference 

message: It should be noted in the cinema section that the music of Fritz Langs Metropolis contains a part which cites Dies Irae (I'm not completely sure because of what I heard, but rather because of the documentary about the film, in which this is mentioned).
: Lang's Metropolis was a silent film. It is altogether possible that one of several scores composed for it in later years contain Dies Irae theme, though. Does anybody know about it? --Goochelaar 08:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dies Irae is indeed part of the film's original music. Silent films were circulated with scores for theatre pianists to play.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.100.116.233 (talk) 15:20, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Metropolis

message: Someone should double check this in case I am mistaken, but I believe that Giuseppe Verdi's Dies Irae is used as one of the main themes of EA Games' Quidditch World Cup video game and at least one of the early Harry Potter films.  148.177.1.218 17:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Harry Potter

message: I'm only a first year latin student, but it seems to me that when "teste David cum Sibylla" is being translated as "Heaven and earth in ashes burning", someone messed up.  Now I realize this to keep the rhyme and meter, but some of the poem is loosing its crispness.  I don't know if the rhyme and meter is especially interesting, but if it is, can't there just be an example of one stanza, as opposed to corrupting the main text the whole way through? --76.203.32.177 (talk) 02:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed that and totally agree, wtf? Terrasidius (talk) 07:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you'll find that "Heaven and earth in ashes burning" is a rough translation of "Solvet saeclum in favilla". "Teste David cum Sybilla" is (very) roughly translated as "See fulfilled the prophets' warning" Scaramouche (talk) 21:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We need a literal translation first and foremost. Poetic versions can come later. InfernoXV (talk) 14:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Most importantly, we need a standard translation (with sources/references/citations etc). --VinceBowdren (talk) 14:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: I have reinserted the poem text, even if it is in Wikisource.
First of all, I believe it to be short enough to be quoted fully, for easier reference.
Next, among the verses of the text itself there is further information about its variants and use.
Finally, it would look a bit strange to mention free translations and paraphrases (as we rightly do) without having the original text in front of us. Happy editing, Goochelaar (talk) 07:55, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That was a good idea, IMHO. Rwflammang (talk) 14:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poem text 

message: The piece "See fulfilled the prophets' warning, Heaven and earth in ashes burning!"... i dont know, call it fantasy, immagination, whatever. It is not a transalation  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.253.214.227 (talk) 00:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: Could somebody verify that Harrison's Dream by Peter Graham does indeed quote the Dies Irae?  I believe it does, in the form of a brass fanfare-type line, but I'd like a second opinion.  Here's a link to the recording:
http://www.mediafire.com/?vdt2lo1cb8ozje3  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.159.28.228 (talk) 21:23, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sigh; you expect others to download a 12.5 MB file and listen through a 13:37 piece? My answer: if you refer to the section at 0:54 (which is a shortened version of the phrase at 0:37), it's not. I didn't listen any further. I'm going to remove the entry. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:57, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In response to the quip about expecting people to listen to the whole file?  Only the people that actually care, or maybe those that enjoy the music.  However, thank you for the second opinion. 99.159.28.228 (talk) 15:01, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peter Graham - Harrison's Dream 

message: In another of the numerous references to popular culture, the hymn is prominently featured in the 1943 Danish film "Day of Wrath" (Vredens Dag.)  I believe the translation is Danish but will need to be verified by someone.  In a really creepy scene, a choir of young school boys sings the hymn while a woman accused of witchcraft is being burned alive.
24.159.109.206 (talk) 14:03, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Day of Wrath, the movie 

message: I did some reorganization of the material today, bringing similar material together in one place and eliminating some redundancy.  If you disagree with any of the changes, please discuss them here rather than reverting the whole lot. AlbertBickford (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the history comparison tool does not deal well with moved material, it is hard to see what I did.  I think I retained everything that was there before, except for redundant material that I condensed.  If you don't see a piece that was there before, look around.  It would also help if others familiar with the article would check it over to make sure I didn't garble any facts in the process of rearranging. AlbertBickford (talk) 23:04, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganization and condensation of material 

message: I think it would be more useful to have the entries in "Musical References" be ordered by year, instead of alphabetically by composer. If it were in a table, readers could be given a choice. SlowJog (talk) 21:10, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order of Musical References 

message: It is obvious that title music uses Berlioz's theme, but not all of it. So how about:
*Hector Berlioz – Symphonie fantastique 
**Wendy Carlos uses his theme in title music of The Shining.
--RicHard-59 (talk) 18:24, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's mentioned at Symphonie fantastique#Use in popular culture. I don't think secondary quotations – quotations of quotations – ought to be mentioned here. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 08:47, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use in The Shining 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Dies Irae. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070406234922/http://www.celt.dias.ie:80/publications/cat/f/f2-22.html to http://www.celt.dias.ie/publications/cat/f/f2-22.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 02:40, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I remember that there was a discussion about Latin incipits, but I forgot when and where. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:23, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dies irae or Dies Irae? 

message: The three columns we have here are pretty well just right.  The Dies Irae formed (until 1962) part of the Catholic burial service, and the second column is the authorised translation given alongside the Latin in lay missals.  This takes many liberties with the Latin: forced rhymes, and circumlocutions.  We must remember that its aim was to reflect the need for reverence and prayerfulness during Mass, in the presence of the body.
Hence the third column, giving the literal meaning of the Latin, uninfluenced by rhyming or liturgical considerations. Here I should like to cut out thee and thou, replacing them with you.  The forms given are perfectly correct, and follow Kennedy's usage.  But they don't contribute to understanding the Latin - I was particularly thrown by 'absolvedst' and 'sattest'.
Any objections?  John Wheater (talk) 16:57, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: Is this right? It sounds more like a grade-B horror flick than a description of the Last_Judgment. Lots of early Google hits (1, 2, 3,...) translate "creatura" as "all creation". --DavidHolmes0 (talk) 14:29, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "when the creature will rise again"? 

message: Not sure where (or if) this belongs. The French folk song “J'ai vu le loup“ starts with a direct quote, albeit with a different rhythm.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhgarrison (talk • contribs) 20:33, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  J’ai vu le loup