Talk:List of horses of the American Civil War

message: This list of famous war horses is neat. I did notice one error under 'Dixie'. General Patrick Cleburne was killed at the Battle of Franklin on November 30, 1864. Dmercado 02:17, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dixie was killed at Perryville. All of the parenthetical remarks apply to the horses, not their owners. Hal Jespersen 15:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dixie

message: Why is Duke (Sherman's horse) listed out of alphabetical order? Danesparza (talk) 17:14, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Duke

message: I have reverted the change that suggested that Little Sorrel and Old Sorrel were two different horses. I have found no evidence that that is the case. The massive biography of Jackson,
* Robertson, James I., Jr., Stonewall Jackson: The Man, The Soldier, The Legend, MacMillan Publishing, 1997, .
lists only one horse, using the "Old" version interchangeably with "Little", usually in quotations. If you have alternative secondary sources that can demonstrate they were different horses, such as with citations to their lineage or sources of acquisition, please present them here. Hal Jespersen 19:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Little Sorrel 

message: Hello,
I am so glad to meet a fellow Jackson enthusiast.  I love Stonewall.  I think he was a great man.
I noticed that you edited my edit of Little Sorrel.  
Little Sorrel and Old Sorrel are two different horses.  Little Sorrel was purchased by Jackson for Anna.  His real name was Fancy.  When Jackson realized that he appreciated the little gelding's gait and steadfastness, he kept him.  He became Little Sorrel.  (I am sure that you know all this)
When Jackson was wounded at Chancellorsville, Little Sorrel ran away.  He was found by Jeb Stuart two weeks later. (Or was captured by the Yankees and released - two different stories I have found)
At the funeral, Jim walks Old Sorrel in the funeral procession.
The Movie Gods and Generals Shows this correctly.
Old Sorrel was also known as Gaunt Sorrel.
Jackson may not have had much imagination when it came to naming his horses, but we know he had four:  Little Sorrel, Old Sorrel, the horse that he was thrown from in Maryland, and the horse the Jeb Stuart brought him the same day he delivered to Jackson a new military jacket and overcoat.
Thank you,
carton253
----
Good Afternoon,
This was my first edit to Wikipedia, so I am not used to how it works.  I guess I was supposed to provide proof of my edit.
"A day or two after Jackson's arrival, an eastbound livestock train was seized, and a number of horses were recruited to the Confederacy. The horses were taken to the river for water, near the picturesque landmark where the Potomac and Shenandoah rivers meet. Jackson, being without a good mount, picked out two of the horses with the help of Major John Harmon. One of the horses was a powerful, large sorrel,(this is Old Sorrel) and the other gelding was small and well rounded. Within a day Jackson found the larger animal skittish with a jarring gait, while the smaller sorrel had a smooth and easy gait with an even temperament. And so began a relationship between horse and rider, that would become one of the most recognizable partnerships of the war. They would soon be known as General Stonewall Jackson and his horse Little Sorrel.
This comes from http://www.johnpaulstrain.com/art/jackson-meets-little-sorrel.htm
Luckily, a few days after his arrival, an eastbound train full of livestock was seized. On board was a herd of domestic horses that was instantly recruited into the Confederacy. Obviously spooked and weary from their journey, the horses were led out of their railroad cars and taken to the nearby river for water. Jackson, without a mount at the time, approached the animals and selected two candidates with the help of Maj. John Harmon. One was a large, muscular stallion; (this is Old Sorrel) the other was a smaller and rounder Morgan. At first, Jackson planned to present the little Morgan as a gift to his wife. But he grew frustrated with the larger animal, which proved to be difficult and ornery. Within a day, the colonel had made his decision, as the bigger and more powerful horse remained skittish,(Old Sorrel) while the smaller sorrel had an easy gait and a pleasant temperament. Appropriately, Jackson named the horse "Little Sorrel"--creating one of the Civil War's most recognizable duos.
This comes from http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/092006/09092006/214319/index_html?page=2
I am sorry that I did not put this with my original post.
Thank you,
carton253
: Welcome to Wikipedia. In many cases, no one will ask you to provide citations (in advance or at all) for changes that you make. However, when you run up against someone who thinks he knows what he is talking about, that person is apt to challenge you to provide citations for information that he does not have or thinks may be wrong. Since you have provided compelling information, I will provide a footnote about the ambiguity. As I mentioned above, a very comprehensive biography of Jackson does not cite these sources and seems to argue in the other direction. I've also seen descriptions of Jackson's mortal wounding and they cite Old Sorrel as the horse he was riding, which are either wrong or an indication that the two names were used interchangeably. There are also a number of websites that I found in 5 minutes that support the idea that there was one horse, not two:
* http://www.gauleymountain.org/gmbk42.htm
* http://www.washingtontimes.com/civilwar/20060407-090610-9730r.htm
* http://www.nellaware.com/blog/?cat=15
* http://www.hackerscreek.com/sorrel.htm
* http://ehistory.osu.edu/uscw/features/articles_new/display.cfm?NationId=63 (" OLD SORREL - formerly a Union officer's mount, was acquired by Stonewall Jackson at Harper's Ferry when she was about eleven years old. Because the mare was so small that Jackson's feet nearly dragged the ground, she was often known as Little Sorrel.")
* http://www.si.edu/RESOURCE/FAQ/nmnh/famehors.htm (The Smithsonian states that the larger horse was called Big Sorrel)
* http://www.civilwarhome.com/warhorses.htm (This site does not even acknowledge that the horse was called Little Sorrel)
* http://www.dutchcreekranch.net/ (Old Sorrel - This famous horse carried General Thomas J. (“Stonewall”) Jackson. Old Sorrel was estimated to be eleven years old at the beginning of the war and was so small that the General’s feet nearly touched the ground. She was later renamed Little Sorrel for this reason.)
: I would not say that these sites are any less definitive that the ones you provided. Hal Jespersen 01:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Update a few minutes later:  I did not take the opportunity to actually follow the links you sent. It seems that the parenthetical remarks you've listed were added by you, and are not contained in the source material. Neither article specifies that the larger horse at Harpers Ferry was named Old Sorrel. I believe it is pretty clear from the references that I have cited that we are talking about one small, relatively old horse and that the two names were used interchangeably for that horse. So I have decided against making the change I said I would make. Sorry for the confusion. If you have a secondary source that backs up your point of view, we can discuss this further. Hal Jespersen 01:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Sorrel 

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