Talk:Bear (gay culture)

message: I don't have sources, therefore I don't want to make an edit, however, in my experience, while hirstuteness is still very much associated with being a bear, it no longer seems to be a disqualifier if someone who self identifies as a bear (or with the bear community) is not very hairy.  It seems to have more to do with overall body size/fat than hair these days.  Even the reference to Homer Simpson being a bear, for example.  Homer is not hairy, he is only large. "Panda bears" are to Asian bears, yet Asians are often not hairy at all.
I think it has more to do with an overall "scruffiness" ...meaning that other masculine traits, in addition to a large body size, may make up for a lack of body hair.  Often having a full beard seems to make up for a lack of body hair to many and seems to be more important as a signifier of being a part of the bear community.
A similar thing applies to otters.  Not all otters are extremely hairy. If anything, an otter is somewhat of a replacement term for "chaser" which some find derisive or othering.  If you are a smaller guy who identifies with the whole set of aesthetics surrounding bear culture and are attracted to larger men and associate within those social circles, you will be considered an otter regardless of body hair.  Again, it has more to do with scruffiness and beards and identity. 
I think something about body hair not being a requirement should be added in regards to the evolution of the identity. 
The bear "community" seems to include rugged, less fashion-conscious, scruffy guys of all sizes who don't identify with and eschew traditional ideas of gay attractiveness.  The part about muscle bear subculture seems to address those bears who do embrace many of the traits of mainstream culture, but most self identifying bears these days are pretty average looking guys who are into other average guys.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:98B:380:2140:2811:81B1:59CD:3059 (talk) 20:57, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  evolution of the identity/term 

message: While Bears have included cisgender men since the beginning of the subculture, Bear-identified cisgender women and transgender men have been recognized as part of Bear culture since the late 2000s (see "A woman in the bear community" by Iz Connell and the interview "Lesbears and Transbears: Dykes and FTMs as Bears" in the 2009 revised Bears on Bears: Interviews & Discussions book). 
I bring this up because while I'm not sure how relevant including a detail like this would be on the page (as again, most Bears are cis men), it may help general readers understand why "Ursula" is included on the list. I'm prematurely adding this to the page, but if it seems too much like a corollary, it'll at least be in the page's discussion. (User:Bluesprucedude)(talk) 16:32, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender 

message: I'm not sure if that part is correct. - Tournesol (talk) 09:25, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newly emerging internet in the mid-eighties? 

message: I wonder why isn't there any mention of Bear not being only a homosexual identifier.
It is very much used in the heterosexual scene too.
In fact we have quotes from people behind XLbear that say it is not about being gay or straight but a state of mind.
https://www.straight.com/life/1029806/savage-love-can-straight-male-call-themselves-bear Kane 1371 (talk) 10:32, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heterosexual identification