Talk:Charles Jacobs (activist)

message: Several of his own bio pieces mention that he has a doctorate from Harvard, but in what? --John Nagle 23:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See the information about Jacobs' being a management consultant that I added today.  I haven't yet found the subject of his doctorate from Harvard; I've found inconsistency in dates cited for it--1988 and 1989.  Perhaps someone will be able to verify the discipline/subject of his doctoral degree (Ph.D.). --NYScholar 04:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is his degree in? 

message: His main activity is as the head of the anti-Slavery group. It is in this capacity that he has appeared on all those shows, and has been published in all those news-sources, and for which he won the award. Please stop distorting his biography by inserting secondary activities in the lead, and forcing his main activities elsewhere. Also, please stop destroying references. Jayjg (talk) 23:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He is probably better known to the general public (if at all), however, as the founder of the media watchdog group Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA).  Until this week, there was no entry for him, and the entry was introduced this week most likely as a response to reading the recent revisions of the account of CAMERA, not the American Anti-Slavery Group.  Due to the prominence of the Middle East in news reports, I thought it a good idea to clean up that article and am happy to see that someone has begun a stub on its founder, Charles Jacobs; until this week, I myself had not heard of him.  While to someone very familiar with Charles Jacobs, CAMERA may seem like a "secondary activity," to those not so familiar with him, based on recent news coverage, it seems far more prominent and thus "primary."  It's a matter of perspective, and what one wants to emphasize and how critical or non-critical one may want to be in writing the article.  Maintaining NPOV is crucial. --NYScholar 04:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look him up in the New York Times archives , the most recent articles (2005) cite him as head of the David Project, which he founded in 2002.   Further back (1994-2001), he's cited several times regarding his anti-slavery work, and he started that organization in 1994.  He founded CAMERA back in 1982.  So that's an indication of his activity over time.  --John Nagle 05:59, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

text: That was one of the factual changes that I introduced into this article without seeing your comment just moved here today.  After I made that change (several times), SV reverted it back to the erroneous reference (several times).--NYScholar 00:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does he do? 

message: [I relocated the comment below today--NYScholar 00:11, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That was one of the factual changes that I introduced into this article without seeing your comment just moved here today.  After I made that change (several times), SV reverted it back to the erroneous reference (several times).--NYScholar 00:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Misplaced material now re-located

message: Actually, he's only a co-director of "The Sudan Campaign".  See this letterhead. That's run out of Fredricksburg, VA, by others, while Jacobs' main organizations are all Boston-based.  --John Nagle 06:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That was one of the factual changes that I introduced into this article without seeing your comment just moved here today.  After I made that change (several times), SV reverted it back to the erroneous reference (several times).--NYScholar 00:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Charles Jacobs' jobs

message: SourceWatch is just a wiki. We don't link to blogs and wikis, particularly when they seem to contain defamatory material about Living Persons.  Please see WP:BLP. Jayjg (talk) 23:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know who this "we" refers to above, but other Wikipedia articles do indeed make references to Sourcewatch, which indeed is the subject of a Wikipedia article and thus capable of being linked and verified. NYScholar 04:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it may not be used as a source. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  SourceWatch 

message: Nagle, I don't know what's going on here, but you can't use Wikipedia as your personal soapbox and that's what this looks like. My apologies if there's something else to it. You added as a "criticism" section a link to an article by a Columbia junior! That was it. No text, just the link. This isn't good editing by any standard. I hope this anti-Israel campaign stops soon because it's causing a lot of trouble and leading to some pretty bad articles, and that's particularly unacceptable when it comes to a living person. Please edit in accordance with BLP, which is policy. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See problems listed later as well.--NYScholar 20:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:BLP]]

message: I found the reference to "Boston 2000" in the Millennium citation; I missed it earlier due to tiredness from editing.  Sorry.  That's fine now.  I did reorganize the order of sentences in the opening paragraph to read more logically (which I had done earlier but someone kept reverting to the illogical order).  I don't, however, think it's necessary to list Jacobs' speaking engagements and publications history from his public relations bios that he and his reps provide to speakers' bureaus.  Anyone can read that information themselves in the articles linked via the citations (though I've left that material in the article).  Otherwise, I really don't see any problems with the current version of the article; it just may need expanding and continuing vigilance regarding maintaining NPOV.--NYScholar 06:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Current version of the article

message: Here are the Massachusetts corporarate records for Jacobs' organizations.
* CAMERA - He founded it, but he's no longer an officer or director.  The online annual reports only go back three years, so we can't tell easily when he let go of control.
* American Anti-Slavery Group - He's now just the treasurer and clerk, but he was president as of the 2003 annual report.
* The David Project  - he's currently president and a director.
It looks like he does his organizations sequentially, phasing out of one when he starts another.  That's consistent with the info from the New York Times archives.  --John Nagle 06:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I altered some verb tenses accordingly, and made lower case the words "president" and "director" as is proper usage.--NYScholar 06:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Also fixed the wrong link provided for the corporate records for The David Project; JN accidentally gave the same link to AASG for it. --NYScholar 08:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organization records 

message: : The provenance and origin of this "public radio" program are questionable.  I've amended the link, adding an annotation and moved it to the article on AASG, where it is more appropriately placed.  It is not available from "National Public Radio" by the way, but from a commercial catalog entry hosted by its producer and production company.  It is not clear if, when, and on what "public radio" stations, this particular program was broadcast (if it was).  That needs verification.  All "public radio" is not "National Public Radio."  Read the "about" page at the production company, which indicates that these programs are produced to be broadcast and sold in a variety of media (including on CD).  It is not produced "by National Public Radio" but rather "for public radio" (desired goal).  The agencies and foundations supporting these productions are also listed on the site.  Needs more investigation and also some kind of neutral source for verification of the nature of the program. (A more neutral source, i.e.).  Beware "original research."  This article should not be viewed as an "free advertisement" for its subject, Charles Jacobs [or as advertisements for positions against him (added later)]. --NYScholar 18:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It was this article, supposedly copied from "The Jewish Advocate" with its note at the bottom, "Dr. Charles Jacobs, President of the David Project, was recently profiled by NPR's "Humankind" for his campaign against modern day slavery." which led me to that cite.  But search on the Jewish Advocate site doesn't bring up that article.  Search on the NPR site doesn't bring up that appearance either, but it does find Charles Jacobs' appearance on NPR's Talk of the Nation, which aired in 2001. Jacobs also was heard briefly on NPR in 2005 as part of the discussion on the "Columbia Unbecoming" movie flap.  --John Nagle 19:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tried to incorporate the information that you provided initially in "External links" into a note in the "Biography" section; see explanation added in your "History" section above here in talk for further explanation.  Thanks for your work on this article.  I had located the same interview yesterday as well, via a simple Google search, but I hadn't yet found a reason to incorporate it.  Your addition to "External links" led to my further incorporation of it in Notes and the reconstruction of some of the notes/citations (see above comments as well).  I have not heard the programs in the series Human Kind broadcast on any of the many public National Public Radio stations that I have listened to over the last few decades (in New England, New York, Oregon, Colorado); but I do occasionally hear another series, Kindred Spirits, which they produce on an NPR-affiliate in New York, which airs it.  Also, some time in the last few days, I did add the citation to that film produced by Jacobs and his colleagues, Columbia Unbecoming (see Notes in the article). --NYScholar 19:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Public Radio" Program link

message: I've cleaned up the article again; I've had to remove various original research, unsourced smears, references which don't meet WP:BLP, etc.  Please note that this is an encyclopedia article, and a biography; therefore, it is written as an article not in point form, and it states what it knows, not what it doesn't know. Also, any negative information must be impeccably sourced. Jayjg (talk) 21:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for doing that. It reads much better now. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

text: ditto.  Thank you, Jayjg.--NYScholar 21:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

text: From Stewart: "The program has sparked an outcry. . . ." Her focus on Jacobs describes how he is part of that "outcry": an "outcry" is a kind of "protest."  Anyone can read the articles and see that (if they are willing to); otherwise, people just seem unwilling to accept that what Jacobs says in his own words is what he thinks.  That's why the quotations are there.  So people can read his point of view in his words (not a paraphrase of them).--NYScholar 03:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latest cleanups 

message: Grammar: transitive and intransitive verb forms: e.g., "to graduate" and "to be graduated"
In terms of proper English grammar usage:
Schools "graduate" students; students are "graduated from" schools.
"to graduate" is"
"To be granted an academic degree or diploma":
Usage:
"Either graduated or was graduated is possible in sentences such as She graduated (or was graduated) from college.  Graduated is now more common.  Although was graduated is considered an affectation by some [e.g., SV], it is an equally acceptable alternative in such examples, according to 77 percent of the Usage Panel. From is necessary in either case.  She graduated college is termed unacceptable by 93 percent of the Panel."
—The American Heritage of the English Language.
--NYScholar 10:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Usage

message: Your total lack of appreciation for the work that other people are trying to do (this article did not exist last week) is extremely upsetting.
Speaking of "professional" etc.; as far as I know, I am the only "professional editor" who is actually working on this article.  That is what I do as a profession in addition to teaching writing at the college/university level and writing books and articles.  So I find your attitude extremely derogatory and insulting ("Nonsense"), especially, since you have not done the research (and I'm not talking about "original research" in Wikipedia's terms) but rather just plain reading of secondary sources attempting to evaluate them.  (It is easy for you to criticize other people's hard work; it may not be perfect, but it is more than many have contributed, which is, in most cases, nothing.)
I cited the Wikipedia article on SourceWatch, which is a bonafide thing to do.  The article has information that one needs to know if one runs into the Source Watch article about Jacobs (cited by someone else originally in this article).  I did not list or cite the article per se; I wasn't quite sure what to do with it after someone else had cited it; some other editor added it in first constructing this article.  I took it out eventually.  But I left the Wikipedia internal link to its own article on SourceWatch in as a reference for those who want it there, because it qualifies use of that as a resource.  There is nothing defamatory about the link.  So please get your facts straight.  Thanks.--NYScholar 09:03, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, after I removed the link to the defamatory SourceWatch on Jacobs as an unreliable source,  you immediately re-added it to the article, with the edit comment "last editor is removing information that provides alternative views of subject."  You're also the person who added the link to smear piece in the unreliable source "iViews"  written by Ismail Royer, the member of the militant group Lashkar-E-Taiba who, in 2004, pled guilty to weapons and other charges and was sentenced to 20 years in prison. So please get your facts straight. Thanks. Jayjg (talk) 09:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lack of respect for other people's hard work

message: I found some material posted by JN on a talk page for "Charles Jacobs," where it is misplaced; I moved it to this page in his own earlier section asking "What does Charles Jacobs do"; it was posted on July 26, 2006, and did not appear on this page before.  I am assuming that he meant to post it here and chose the wrong page by accident.--NYScholar 23:53, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Relocated material from incorrect talk page for Charles Jacobs

message: I have now added this article to the requests for arbitration.  I'll post the link to it in a minute.  This is my notification of the parties involved (scroll up in this talk page) of the request for mediation.--NYScholar 23:53, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As an Arbitration Committee clerk, I've taken the liberty of removing the request from Requests for arbitration.  It does seem to me that  you may need to consider mediation. --Tony Sidaway 00:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  I had just tried to post the following and got an "editing conflict" message! Sorry for the confusion!! --NYScholar 00:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbitatration Request

message: An anon just added a line about Jacobs, trouble in Darfur, and Orientalism (book).  I marked it as "citation needed".  Jacobs did come out against that book in a different forum , but we don't have a cite to the specific statement added. Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with the removal of that statement. It's really a minor part of the "Columbia Unbecoming" issue, which is covered over at David Project.  --John Nagle 17:43, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jacobs and [[Orientalism (book)]] 

message: Editors are reminded not to add information that raises BLP issues without appropriate RS support.--Epeefleche (talk) 20:34, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: BLP issue

message: Jacobs has garnered a fair amount of media attention in the weeks after the Boston Marathon bombings. That should be added in an NPOV way.Haberstr (talk) 05:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  His post-Boston bombings activism 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Charles Jacobs (political activist). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060711201906/http://www.benadorassociates.com:80/jacobs.php to http://www.benadorassociates.com/jacobs.php
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 22:51, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified