Talk:Steam (service)/Archive 2

message: VALVe's security was recently shown for what it really is; no exsistant. A hacker known as MaddoxX recently infiltrated
VALVe's web servers, exposing, what should be confidential information, to the public. The hacker managed to gain root
access to the server, meaning they could view anything they wanted (Including Customer Credit Card details, and even
VALVe's current assets). The hacker then ripped the site and created a "Release" (http://rapidshare.com/files/24958280/CafeHomies-PROViSiON.rar.html)
in an attempt to grab VALVe's attention (Who are renouned for poor security). Included in the release are all CAS/CAC
files (Including certificates), proving once again that their Cafe program is not as secure as they thought.
Valve has yet to fix the exploit the hacker used, and has not yet even replied to him. It has also failed to
reveal to it's customers that this event even occured, even though they're private details have been exposed. Please
help us to inform the public and VALVe customers of this important news.''
Source: http://emp.damage-web.net/viewtopic.php?p=62590
:Steam wasn't hacked itself. It was a regular Valve file server. This belongs on Valve Corporation. --Tom Edwards 20:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be worthy to gather information on this and add a section about it. --CCFreak2K 21:21, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I certainly agree that it's notable enough. Since then, the file has been deleted from RapidShare and the forums were closed down temporarily. I'll add this to the article in a hidden comment form. For your info, there's already a section called "Security" in the article; the new info will be there. --Bruin_rrss23 (talk) 06:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello? This still isn't related to Steam. --Tom Edwards 13:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hacked 

message: I think most people will agree that Steam does plenty more than content delivery nowadays. ;-) I'm thinking of moving the article, but the best name I've come up with, "Steam (online service)", is sort of clunky. Are there any other suggestions? --Tom Edwards 11:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. While Steam does sell games, ultimately the services they provide are in delivering content. The friends system and the servers list are really the only two things Steam has that is not content related. However, i would have to say that the servers list is more of a method of delivering gameplay. the friends list...well, that is the thing least related to content. What does Steam call itself? if Steam says it's a content delivery system, and it's not a complete lie, then why should the wikipedia article disagree? I think that the easiest way to describe Steam in a useful way is with "content delivery". -- Bob52287 20:57, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It collects statistics (like game stability), lets developers talk directly to each and every one of their customers, manages the files on the client without needing huge reinstalls, allows users to hand out full game trials to their friends, will shortly support matchmaking and persistent gamer profiles, and of course supports purchases. That's off the top of my head! ;-) --Tom Edwards 22:25, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Let's not forget VAC either. --Tom Edwards 22:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Bob. Ultimately, the purpose of Steam (from Valve's perspective, as well as from gamers' perspectives) is to deliver content - namely, games. I also would like to mention that the criticism of Steam is extensive among people who use it regularly. There is a definite consensus that Steam has destroyed much of the old content of Half-Life (e.g., the many mods that were once freely available now do not work under Steam). Steam also forces gamers to purchase multiple copies of a game if they desire to play local LAN games (this has always been the centerpiece of my criticism). Hang out on any server where dedicated Half-Lifers frequent (i.e., not CS servers - try SvenCoop, or BattleGround), and you'll see that the dislike of Steam is nearly universal, at least amongst those in the know. Fuzzform 04:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd agree that that's still its biggest use, but I do think the list above makes my argument pretty damn strong regardless. --Tom Edwards 08:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I also agree on the content delievery name.  It's what steam is ultimately used for. Corpx 05:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: excellent!! - Bob52287 15:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Make sure to note the new achievements which appear in some Orange Box games. Perhaps you're going to fold that into the Gamer Pages section? (It seems like they're already available). --Ecnassianer 00:18, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving the article 

message: Time to do this. Here's an outline I've come up with:
*Functionality
**Purchases
***Price points
***Account access
**Downloads
***Content streaming
***Shared demo/full content
***Automatic updates
***Media
**Game Cache Files
***No Cache Files
***Validation
***Defragmentation
**Friends
**Server Browser
**Valve Anti-Cheat
**Promotions
***Guest Passes
***Free Weekends
**Update News
**Statistic gathering
***System information
**CD Key activation
**Backup
**Mod integration
*Future functionality
**The Steam Community
***Matchmaking
***Clan support
***Gamer pages
***Personal statistics
**Peer to Peer distribution
Some of the bullets could be collapsed into the copy of their parent. --Tom Edwards 09:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: excellent!! - Bob52287 15:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Make sure to note the new achievements which appear in some Orange Box games. Perhaps you're going to fold that into the Gamer Pages section? (It seems like they're already available). --Ecnassianer 00:18, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Feature section structure

message: I think the recent restructuring of the article eliminated pretty much any bias or NPOV. I see the outline as giving weight to what Steam is, while also mentioning valid criticisms of it. I move that we take the NPOV tag off the page. - Bob52287 15:32, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias in the revised article 

message: Free Weekends are criticised, and we don't need a citation for data collection because the next paragraph details an example with refs of its own
::When I first read that statement, the fact that it is criticized and the manner in which it was written (newbies and "cheaters reign free"), it seemed to violate NPOV from a veteran user against the newcomers in these Steam games. As for the data collection, I have to agree that the placement of  was placed wrong.--BirdKr 13:29, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not POV on Wikipedia's part. That's what needs to be avoided. --Tom Edwards 21:40, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Free Weekend

message: I am the one who added the 8.95 price point initially, but as Tom decided to revert the 3.95 price for a single game, maybe I could remove the 8.95 price point since I clarified in the prior sentence that not all game prices were listed? Scriptdaemon 04:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my first thought actually, but after consideration I don't think keeping a general price point guideline would hurt anything. Scriptdaemon 04:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reformatting a list is a very, very low level of OR...:-p --Tom Edwards 09:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Price Points 

message: As of the latest update, I believe all offline mode-related criticism is no longer necessary and can be removed. Just wanted to make sure if anyone still had any objection related to this. Scriptdaemon 02:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It lets you go in offline/online mode at any time apparently, but I have not tested whether it will start initially in offline mode if you aren't connected to the Internet at all. It also does state that games not fully updated will not be able to be played, so after consideration I think it'd be better to test this feature more on a user's end before actually doing any editing in the article, which is why I left this in the discussion page. Scriptdaemon 04:40, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: * I dont see the big deal in this.   Usually you can just unplug the network cable/Disable the connection through windows/Block steam's internet access through a firewall and it would cause it go into offline mode (provided that the last login was valid) Corpx 05:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can now use -offline, so we can remove some of the crits. --Tom Edwards 08:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: People concerns were with single-player games needing authentication, as without Steam there would be no need to submit any information. That's still going on with the HL2 episodes, so the section ought to stay. It could be reworded though. --Tom Edwards 19:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, somehow that didn't occur to me. I had in my mind that if someone wanted to play a single player game, then just not add it through Steam. Wasn't thinking thoroughly. Scriptdaemon 04:18, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

text: *Arent those games avaliable in offline mode if the last login was valid? Corpx 05:14, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but you still need to make that last login. :-) --Tom Edwards 09:02, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Offline mode-related criticism 

message: :Image:New steam chat.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:27, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:New steam chat.png

message: Is there a particular reason why the addition of Gabe Newell's interview quote concerning their experiences with Apple was removed from the cross-platform support section? Personally I thought it was relevant and well applied. I'm not going to get all pissy because my edit was removed, but was there a reason, an alternative? Any suggestions? - Hectate 63.239.183.126 20:08, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was about their games, not Steam. It's now in the Mac gaming article. --Tom Edwards 12:37, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cross-platform support section 

message: According to this, GCF stands for Grid Cache File, not Game Cache File. Should the expansion of GCF just not be mentioned? --Firba1 21:34, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been changed since. --Tom Edwards 21:38, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GCF 

message: So, Negotiator, are you going to explain why your edits are encyclopaedic? --Tom Edwards 09:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Stolen accounts is a major problem, they are not a major problem with games which are not on steam. So it is legitimate criticism. did valve pay you to improve all their articles?--The Negotiator 12:35, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then write it in that way. Stating that an account-based service is susceptible to phishing is about as useful on Wikipedia as stating that a game may cause epileptic seizures. Regarding your most recent edit, 1000 is indeed a small number when taken from a sample of over six million (nevermind that, I see your replacement now). --Tom Edwards 14:23, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You'll also need to add it to a different section. Mixing users' security with Valve's security isn't a great way about things. --Tom Edwards 15:06, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

text: It is not Valve's security, it is a vulnerability to the digital distribution software. This isn't a problem for games not on Steam, and it is a major problem which is why there's a lot of info about it on their support pages and their forums always being filled with scammers/lost account etc.--The Negotiator 15:24, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When I said Valve's security I was talking about the existing contents of the Security subheading, which covers the various cracks and fake cracks for their games. This is distinct from phishing susceptibility, which is a user security issue. You are right to say that it isn't a problem for games not on Steam; I am asking that you point this out in the article text, as your original paragraph talked about Steam in isolation. --Tom Edwards 17:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'll let you write about it a little and I'll continue.--The Negotiator 19:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what I'd write. As you saw, I'm too used to these systems to have even realised that it might be an issue. :p --Tom Edwards 20:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Well if you don't know how to start, can you not just revert my additions all the time?--The Negotiator 15:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't follow. --Tom Edwards 18:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "try the talk page"