Talk:China/Archive 1

message: Jiang, can you just tell me before I revert it, what was the reason for deleting NAM message? China is observer and used to be a member. I think that this is just enough to place it here.
Avala 14:42, 15 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The footer contains too many countries in it? Shall we create a one for the UN too? If you want to indicate that it's a NAM observer, then say so. The footer is meaningless. You may add it, but keep in mind that it's a wasted effort because these will be removed, per consensus on wikiproject countries. --Jiang 22:35, 15 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  NAM 

message: Some wiseguy decided to change a bunch of words in the article to ridiculously stupid things.  I'm new to this and very poor at editing, so would someone with the skill please fix it?
:Welcome to wikipedia. Have a look at Wikipedia:How to revert a page to an earlier version. Cheers, Jiang 06:40, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some Wiseguy 

message: User VeryVerily's intransigence and impossible behaviour have left me no option but to request mediation. People who have anything to add to my request are asked to visit Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. Shorne 11:01, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mediation requested 

message: You know Fred Bauder, no matter how much we try to debate, there will continue to be people found on the extreme left. So instead of trying to convince one particular one, let's try to arrive at an article that looks equally reasonable to the far-left, the far-right, and everyone in between.
I'll start by neutering everything of significance in the article:
After World War II, the Chinese Civil War between the Communist Party of China and the Kuomintang ended in 1949 with the Communists in control of mainland China and the Kuomintang in control of Taiwan and some outlying islands of Fujian. On October 1, 1949, Mao Zedong declared the People's Republic of China and established a communist state.
Supporters of the Maoist Era, consisting mostly of poorer or more traditionalist or nationalist-minded Chinese and foreign observers who believe in communism, point out that under Mao, China's unity and sovereignty was assured for the first time in decades, and there was development of infrastructure, industry, healthcare, and education, which they believe has helped in raising living standards. They also believe that campaigns such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution were essentially in jumpstarting China's development and purifying her culture. Supporters also doubt statistics or accounts given for death tolls or other damages incurred by Mao's campaigns.
However, critics of Mao's regime, which consists of the majority of foreign analysts and observers as well as many Chinese people, especially the emergent middle class and more liberal-minded city dwellers, point out that Mao's administration imposed strict controls over everyday life, and believe that campaigns such as the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution contributed to or caused millions of deaths, incurred severe economic costs, and damaged China's cultural heritage. The Great Leap Forward, in particular, precedes a massive famine in China which, according to most Western and Chinese historians, killed 20 - 40 million people; most Western and many Chinese analysts attribute this to the Great Leap Forward, while others, including Mao at the time, attribute this to natural disasters; still others doubt this figure entirely, or point out that many more people died due to famine or other consequences of political chaos during the rule of Chiang Kai-Shek.
Following the dramatic economic failures and severe famine of the early 1960s, which people unsympathetic to Maoist rule attribute fully to the Great Leap Forward, Mao stepped down from his position as chairman of the People's Republic. The National People's Congress elected Liu Shaoqi as Mao's successor. Mao remained head of the Party but was removed from day to day management of economic affairs which came under the control of a more moderate leadership  under the dominant influence of Liu Shaoqi, Deng Xiaoping and others who initiated economic reforms.
In 1966 Mao launched the Cultural Revolution, which is viewed by his opponents (including both Western analysts and many Chinese people who were youth at the time) as a strike back at his rivals by mobilized the youth of the country in support of his thought, purging the moderate leadership, but is viewed by his supporters as an experiment in direct democracy and a genuine attempt at purging Chinese society of corruption and other negative influences. Disorder followed but gradually under the leadership of Zhou Enlai moderate forces regained influence. After Mao's death, Deng Xiaoping succeeded in winning the power struggle, and Mao's widow, Jiang Qing and her associates, the Gang of Four, who had assumed control of the country, were arrested and tried..
Since then, the government has gradually and greatly loosened governmental control over people's personal lives, and began transitioning China's planned economy into a market-based one.
Supporters of the economic reforms, who tend to be middle-class Chinese and most left-center to right Western observers, point out the rapid development of the consumer and export sectors of the economy, the creation of a middle class (especially in coastal cities where most industrial development is concentrated) that now constitute 15% of the population, higher living standards (which is shown via dramatic increases in GDP per capita, consumer spending, life expectancy, literacy rate, and total grain output) and a much wider range of personal rights and freedoms for average Chinese.
Critics of the economic reforms, who tend to be poorer workers and peasants in China and left-leaning Western observers, point out that the reforms have introduced wealth disparity, environmental pollution, rampant corruption, widespread unemployment associated with layoffs at inefficient state-owned enterprises, and has introduced often unwelcome cultural influences. Consequently they believe that China's culture has been corrupted, her poor has been reduced to a hopeless adject underclass, and her social stability is threatened.
Despite these concessions to capitalism, the Communist Party of China remains in control and has maintained repressive policies against groups which it feels are threats, such as Falun Gong and the separatist movement in Tibet. Supporters of these policies, who tend to be the majority of rural Chinese people and a smaller majority of urban Chinese people, as well as a minority of observers, point out that these policies safeguard stability in a society that is torn apart by class differences and rivalries, has no tradition of civil participation, and no rule of law. Opponents of these policies, who tend to be a minority of Chinese people, most Chinese dissidents living aboard, many people from Hong Kong or Taiwan, ethnic minorities like Tibetans, and most Westerners, point out that these policies severely violate norms of human rights that the international community recognizes, and further claim that this results in an police state which creates an atmosphere of fear and ignorance.
The People's Republic of China adopted its current constitution on December 4, 1982.
-- ran (talk) 04:34, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
This is good enough although as perviously some important events are left out such as land reform, the Korean War and Tiananmen. But using the facts in the previous version it attempts, generally successfully, to give both the basic events and differing viewpoints about them. Shorne? Fred Bauder 12:11, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
:First, a text no longer than this—and we can't really allow much more space in this article—is going to have to leave out a lot of events. We can't be like the lady who asked a missionary for a pocket-sized copy of the Bible in large type.
:Second, although this version is a good deal better than the previous one, it still seems biased. The effect is to push people into one of two camps. Indeed, the section can no longer be called "History"; it's now more like "Opinions on various policies since 1949". Shorne 16:35, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV