Talk:Lebensborn

message: *In his book "I Flew for the Fuhrer", Heinz Knoke describes a visit to one of these places.  He says that there was a big room, with girls, and that after a pair had selected each other, they were required to fill out some paperwork.  The pilots called this "Our Ten-Minute Marriage".  The overall impression was that the program preferred pilots and other men who were not likely to survive the war.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.252.215.212 (talk) 20:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Source for first-hand account

message: *The article says that "parents and children were examined by SS doctors before admittance."    It would be informative to know, what exactly were the criteria for admittance?
*Newsweek is one of the media organizations accused of participating in "post-war sensationalism."  This is a little difficult to believe, as Newsweek is generally a reputable source.  Perhaps someone could review the cited article and re-evaluate whether it belongs in this category.
Quoting from the Nuremburg trial as the "final word" on Lebensborn is not historically up-to-date. How many Nazis were not convicted then simply because more evidence came to light AFTER the Nuremburg trials?
Maybe I just don't know how to edit, but the first two paragraphs of this article are incredibly outdated and I don't know how to modify them. The tone is that Lebensborn is mostly benign and falsely maligned program.  Then, one reads further to see - just hints of the controversy which these discussion pages (and a simple Internet search) reveal. 
Can somebody edit the the introductory paragraphs to - at least  - reflect the serious controvery over Lebensborn? 
Bad assumptions:  It seems that Lebensborn is not considered a breeding program since women were --at least from what we know today--not physically "forced" to breed. 
Is "not using physical force" the only criteria for not considering Lebensborn a breeding program? What of the use of hunger and escape from social criticism to a woman seeking shelter while she carried a child?
And what of having spokespeople from some of the Lebensborn Child organizations contribute?Victorianezine (talk) 20:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestions for improving the article

message: OK, major revision done to this page. I'm also the one who updated the Children of the Nazi era article as ano a couple of days ago (more work remains on that one). In this article I'm not quite sure what to do with the last section about the kidnappings in Poland. It's an important part of the war history, but it was not a Lebensborn project AFAIK. -- Steve Hart 23:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Major update

message: In reality, no evidence is found, so far, of any breeding houses. Further, the idea that the Lebensborn project was ever intended as a program to carefully breed selected humans is disputed, at best. No written material has been discovered stating such goals. There are no recorded statements, and no woman or man has stepped forward with reliable claims. The trial against the leaders of the Lebensborn organization after the war did not reveal any plans to breed humans.
The only reference to such a plan can be found in Felix Kersten's book The Kersten Memoirs, 1940-1945 (1956), where Kersten, Himmler's physical therapist/masseur, claims that Himmler told him that he had let it be known, privately, that unmarried women who longed for a child could turn to the program for conception assistance of the "revolutionary kind".
:If part of the above can be reworded, we can restore it to the article. Sam Spade 23:42, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sam, let me know what lines you are thinking along. I was battling moving this part in its entirety to a new section or to the Post-war sensationalism part. Do you feel it should be rewritten? Steve Hart 19:34, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV moved from article 

message: There is evidence and some of the Lebensborn Children came forward and spoke about it. They did receive partial birth cetificates because the files WERE made public, but many do not even know that they were and would not even know where to go to get these documents.23:21, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent article 

message: Hm... While most of 200.000 Polish children kidnapped during war had nothing to do with Lebensborn, there are however quite a few examples with Lebensborn participating in such activities. I will add the info back into the article, with corrected numbers, though. "Very soon now(tm)" :) Szopen 16:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The kidnappings 

message: At the head of the "Background" section I found this:
The Lebensborn e.V. (eingetragener Verein{what does this mean in English?})
If the person who wrote that sentence sees this note, please learn that all you need to do is place a wiki link around the term and press the "Show preview" button. If a good link apears in the preview your question is answered. That is what I did. So the source of for the article now reads:
The Lebensborn e.V. (eingetragener Verein)
emma scanlon
If that fails a google search of the term eingetragener Verein found a dozen correct tranlations including the first hit.
Nwbeeson 06:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've rewritten this to read "(eingetragener Verein, "registered association")". It's always bad form to direct people away from the page for answers; they might not come back. -Ashley Pomeroy 18:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: eingetragener Verein

message: Is the neutrality of this article still disputed or can we remove the tag from it? If you aren't for removal of the tag, could you discuss your objections on the talk page? AniMate 03:37, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality? 

message: If one peruses 19th to 20th century Eugenics history, (notably from Sir Fraancis Galton to M. Sanger, O. Wendell Holmes, Charles Davenport) the idea of selectively breeding the human race is the central idea. 
The Nazis, noted as believers in their "master race" are cited in many, many sources (including their own writings) as seeking to breed more "master race" people. LEBENSBORN homes in Germany and other Nordic sites were one of the Nazi's ways to grow a larger "master race".
Thus, this article is somewhat deficient in not more fully DEVELOPING the EUGENICS motivation behind the Lebensborn homes & practice. Such Eugenics principle also reduced women, girls to "breedcow" status, even if they were not overtly coerced into breeding babies for Germany. 
Just one of MANY sources http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/eugenics/list3.pl
will mention this most prominent concept.
.Victorianezine (talk) 16:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Along those lines, the introduction of this article seems to parse the meaning of the term "breeding program" rather drastically. It defines the system as NOT a breeding program because "individuals were not forced to have sex with selected partners."  How does that make it NOT a breeding program?  It does certainly mean that Lebensborn was not a FORCED breeding program or one that used artificial insemination/scientific methods, but choosing specific individuals to mate based on their supposed racial/genetic qualities is a "breeding program" unless someone has a definition of the term of which I am unaware....  Redefining the concept of breeding in terms of forced sex seems like a particularly weak qualification to me. 71.103.120.122 (talk) 17:23, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eugenics background to Lebensborn should be amplified 

message: Did Lebensborn really have 3 facilities in the USA? Is this a joke? What is the source? 80.221.36.145 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment was added on 10:21, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Such a claim seems ridiculous. Nietzsche 2 (talk) 03:51, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  USA? 

message: Lebensborn means literally livebirth or birth of live in antiquated german language. The term born stems from german geboren (eng. born) and is identical with its english term. But spring of life is also an adequate translation.--MBelzer (talk) 14:29, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lebensborn translated 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the section "6  Self-help groups and aftermath", it is stated 
 "In Norway, children born to Norwegian mothers by Nazi fathers were often bullied, raped and abused after the war, and placed in mental institutions; their mothers became slave labourers in concentration camps"
 (my emphasis).
This is an extraordinary claim. There is of course no credible evidence of post-war Norway running 'concentration camps' in the meaning that the phrase usually carries in the context of World War II. 
81.146.12.231 (talk) 17:04, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You have a good point. The cited article doesn't mention concentration camps; rather, it says, Many thousands of their mothers  -  labelled 'German whores'  -  were sent to secret prison camps. I'd like to see another source on the matter of the treatment of Norwegian mothers of lebensborn. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇  05:37, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extremely dubious claims / use of language in section "6  Self-help groups and aftermath" 

message: Preserving here by providing this link; pls see WP:MILPOP for a guideline that's relevant here. Please let me know if there are any concerns. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:32, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture section  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:51, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: This quote:
"Himmler's effort to secure a racially pure Greater Germany, sloppy journalism on the subject, as well as Nazi ideology retained by some, led to persistent false assumptions about the programme. The main misconception, perpetuated by Nazi sympathizers as a straw man, was that the programme involved coercive breeding. "
Makes absolutely no sense. Why would nazi sympathizers make up stuff to make nazis look bad? There are a lot of unsourced claims in this section as well and it reads...very strangely. Clown Tiddies (talk) 17:35, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post war section 

message: When I read this, a few things struck out. Among others, the use of the expression "racially pure". As this is not a scientific term and purely derived from historical Nazi or current white supremacy movement, terms like these should be always enclosed in quotation marks. Without that, the article cannot be interpreted in an unbiased way. It simply gives credence to "scientific" racism if it is part of a regular text, without distinguishing it an an alien concept to science and humanities.
In a way, terms like these should be always in quotes across the whole Wikipedia. Ralphhalgas (talk) 12:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding quotation marks to non-scientific ideological Nazi terms