Talk:First Battle of Adobe Walls

message: Why would the first battle have been in 1877 and the second in 1874?
Rlquall 01:31, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing is said about where Adobe Walls actually is. Also, what exactly does this battle have to do with the Civil War (which ended 12 years earlier)? --Michael K. Smith 17:10, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

message: The article clearly states that Carson retreated from the main battlefield and fell back to high ground where his force continued to repulse native attacks until morning. Then Carson attacked the native village. Obviously this means the fighting continued long after the initial engagement on the main field. The natives first forced the US soldiers back but when they discontinued thier assaults on Carson's high ground position, they lost the battle. This is when the fighting stopped, not when Carson withdrew to a higher elevation. Therefore the U.S. won because the natives eventually fled, after first forcing the Americans to high ground. Carson was not massacred like Custer, he would have if the natives did'nt retreat. Also look at the casualties, I know there has been plenty of battles where the victor sustained more casualties than the defeated but this is not so in this case.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by TJ13090 (talk • contribs) 01:51, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the wording from "fled" to "retreat" because the word "fled" implies "rout", to me. Perhaps it was a rout, I do not know. Still, I thought I'd change it to the more neutral term "retreat". Please add detail if you have it. My main Comanche source book does not have much info on this battle. Pfly (talk) 05:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Result issue

message: Looks like there is a little date confusion on this page.  Was this battle fought in 1864 or in 1877?  The article contradicts the battlebox, so which is right? Roy Al Blue 21:33, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date confusion 

message: There were two battles at Adobe Walls, the first, the subject of this article, during the Civil War, when the US sent an expedition into winter campgrounds of the Kiowa, Kiowa-Apache and Comanches to punish them for raids against wagon trains and settlers.  The second battle at Adobe Walls came during the "Red River War" when a coalition of warriors from all the plains tribes attacked buffalo hunters camping at Adobe Walls.  Though there were only two dozen of them against 700 or so warriors, their long distance rifles held them at bay.  The battles were less than a decade apart. John1951 21:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Two battles at Adobe Walls

message: To declare this battle a victory for the US army, although that is claimed by many writers, seems a bit strange.  The Indians were left in control of the battlefield as Carson retreated.  The Indians did not sue for peace after the battle and the US army did not renew its offensive against them for eight years.  The only basis by which it can be claimed this was a US victory is by imputing a high number of Indian casualties, but there's little evidence of that, other than the wishful thinking of many authors, that the Indians suffered heavy casualties.  And even if the Indians did suffer high casualties, there's no evidence that they were enfeebled after the battle.  
I plan to change the sidebar to call this an Indian victory unless somebody can demonstrate to me that it wasn't. I will, of course, provide references to support that view -- just as those who claim it was a US victory can cite references to support their point of view.  Judgment seems to be called for here.  The facts are that Carson retreated from the battlefield rather than continue to battle a superior Indian force.  The guy who possesses the battlefield at the end of the battle is usually declared the victor and the guy who retreats is usually declared the loser. Carson's retreat was skillful and prudent, but that doesn't make it a victory. Smallchief (talk) 22:30, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There being no objection, I am changing the infobox to call this an Indian victory.  Smallchief (talk) 23:26, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: US Victory?

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