Talk:Demographics of Islam/Archive 1

message: This is excruciating! Shouldn't it be possible to get some sort of ballpark figure for the break-up. I'm not a Muslim so I'm obviously not privy to the sensitivities of over-stating one or the other; but some figures please! Sunni 80 - Shia 20, Sunni 77 - Shia 23.......something, somebody.
After watching Sunnis estimate the Shi'a population DOWN, and the Shi'a estimate their adherents UP, I decided to make a country by country table with the best figures I could get. The table could probably be considerably improved by consulting national censes. 
This is the first time I have prepared a table and I have probably made dumb mistakes in the table formatting as well as in the demographics. Help is invited. Zora 14:15, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You've accomplished 99% of the job ;) I'll try to help you. -- Svest 15:13, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Zora, what do you mean by (FYROM)? Cheers -- Svest 21:57, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't check what name was used in Wikipedia. FYROM stands for Former Yugoslave Republic of Macedonia. As I understand it, Greece does not want Macedonia to use the name Macedonia, as that was the homeland of Alexander the Great and the name belongs to Greece, dang it. Greece will hold its breath until it turns blue if Macedonia uses the name Macedonia. Therefore Macedonia must call itself FYROM. Dunno how Wikipedia deals with this problem. I'd stayed up all night and I was too tired to check. Sorry. Zora 22:11, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. The name used in Wiki is Republic of Macedonia. The article reads referred to by the United Nations and most countries as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM). So, we still have to use Republic of Macedonia. Cheers -- Svest 22:19, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Macedonia (FYROM)]]

message: Zora,
There is a complete blackout in many places around the world about Shia population statistics. This makes it hard to get an objective count.
In some places like in Yemen, there is even ongoing massacres against Shia populations that go completely unnoticed in the western media.
Therefore I hope you dont mind me posting numbers from Imam Reza Net, to fill in some blank spots in the table.
I did not have the time however, to add the numbers to the total and change the overall percentages accordingly. Could you do that please? My time is up here in the library. Thanx.--Zereshk 23:45, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Filling in some missing numbers

message: There's another article, Islam by country, that discusses the demographics, but not in such detail. The two articles should be merged. I prefer the demographics title, but could be argued out of it <g>. Gosh I feel dumb for not noticing that there was a possible conflict. I had dismissed the Islam by country article because it didn't give any sectarian breakdown. Zora 02:36, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  D'oh 

message: Spain does not show up in the list. Anyone can provide us with some figures? Cheers -- Svest 23:48, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spain 

message: User Khakhan corrected the table to show that India's Muslims were 85% Sunni, 15% Shi'a. That seemed reasonable, and I calculated the figures, changed totals, etc. -- and then, d'oh, I stopped to wonder exactly what source Khakhan had for those figures. I will revert unless Khakhan can give a source. Zora 20:42, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  I corrected table -- possibly I shouldn't have 

message: Correct information (in aid of the comments below)
Muslims in Brazil: 2.5 million
Shia: 40%
Sunni: 60%
*The correct number is 27 000 as per the last Brazilian census (verify link in the article). However the percentage of shias and sunnis seem to be correct (40/60). Nfo here have to be based on reliable sources like Censuses. PMLF 02:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazil 

message: I hope some of us realize that giving Muslim population counts for each country down to the individual level is nonsense. First of all these numbers are obviously made up numbers , at best an extrapolation from someones arbitrary estimate of percentages. And of course the sources for these numbers are who ? Oh the CIA, who is notoriously unable to get any accurate data about the Muslim world. But of course if the CIA says it is so then it must be so, (like the WMD in Iraq). But who are we to question the travesty of scholarship that gets published by officialdom, lets just pretend that we do not notice the absurdity of those claims and propagate the deception to our gullible readers--Ibnra 06:55, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a suggestion re rounding? I agree that the figures are improbably precise. Should we round to the nearest hundred? Thousand? As for the use of CIA figures and adherents.com -- that's what's easily available on the net. Using figures from a national census would be better, if the census is reliable. Don't just yell at us, start work <g>. Zora 08:08, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  As far as the overall Muslim population is concerned, I do not think using CIA figures is harmful and I personally do take their data seriously. I can accept that the Sunni,Shia breakdown might be inaccurate but I don't think it is that serious of a matter. خرم Khurram 14:25, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

text: *The inaccurate Shia Sunni breakdown might not be a serious matter for you, but it is for some people. And as the accuracy of it is unreliable it should not be there. --Khalid! 20:17, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: we will obviously take the best numbers we have. If you have more reliable numbers than those of the CIA, you are more than welcome. For many countries, there are more precise estimates. Islam in France, for example: CIA says 3-6 million, the French interior ministry estimates 4.1 million. In this case, we should settle for 4.1 million, until somebody comes up with a more accurate study. 81.63.50.227 14:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blatant intellectual dishonesty

message: so far, I don't see why this should be separate from Islam by country. If this is to remain a separate article, it souldn't list percentages by country, it should discuss the history of Muslim demographics in intelligent, flowing prose. 81.63.50.227 14:19, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, you write it then. Zora 22:31, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Busy, Zora? -- Svest 00:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dang busy. I'm over-extended, that's what it is. Zora 02:49, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

text: it shuld be merged with Islam by country --Khalid! 12:05, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Article scope

message: *Muslims have been enrolled, provisionally, in the Sunni column
This is really lousy methodology and completely unencyclopaedic. The rows should be left blank if this figure is not known. It is definitely invalid to provide a sum total or sum percentage for the columns where sometimes the figure is known, and sometimes it is not. -- zzuuzz (talk) 14:30, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dodgy table methodology

message: Zora gave the justification for this table because it ended Shi'a vs Sunni number dispute. If you are not going to add the total (and you are never going to find the stats for 90% of the countries on the list anyway), what's the point of this table? It should be deleted and redirected to other article 72.129.170.249 20:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I fail to see how it can end any dispute to count all Muslims as Sunnis. The calculations are misleading in the extreme (and if you'd care to check the totals are currently wrong anyway). I would even go so far as to say that it is POV. It is completely unencyclopaedic. Please only report verifiable facts. -- zzuuzz (talk) 21:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Total

message: I personally know three people living in Somalia. The husband and wife are both CATHOLIC and so is their daughter.
Therefore the statistics should read:
Total Population = 8,591,629
Muslims = 8,591,626.
I have change this accordingly. Wallie 17:10, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Somalia is incorrect

message: http://www.usislam.org/muslimstatistics.htm
--Striver 17:45, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 1.5 B

message: Does anyone know if any figures are available on the percentage of Muslims that follow Sufism?  Is it substantial enough to measure and factor into this article, or am I missing something?  Thanks! - Jersyko·talk 15:49, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is very hard to come up with such a number, becuase it is hard to define who is Sufi and who is not. The idea of Sufism can be found in Sunni and Shia sects. It is safe to say the Sunni majority used to be Sufi during the Ottoman rule, but it is declining sense the end of that period. --Islamic 23:55, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sufism? 

message: This article used to contain statistics for Sunni Muslims until a massive rewrite by anon. I propose the information should be merged, and where no statistics are available then no figures should be used. Any thoughts? -- zzuuzz (talk) 16:29, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Shi'a / Sunni merge

message: There are more Muslims in Israel than in Lebanon. Is it politically incorrect to list them here? The question I have not been able to determine is how many of them are Shi'a ... Cbdorsett 03:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added the numbers for Israel (taken from Dept of State Report and the CIA factbook). Couldn't find any breakdown for Shias vs. Sunnis, but I guess it's a start... --Frescard 03:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  900,000+ Muslims in Israel - where are they on this page?