Talk:Grille (artillery)

message: Can someone have a look at what I've done. If you have any questions, please discuss here before editting. (spelling doesn't count. My spelling sucks) Mark1800 01:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer Review 

message: The one modification of Grille was armed with 15 cm schwere FeldHaubitze 13K (Not from World of Tanks). When I saw Grille (not in WoT) I noticed that the cannon had short barrel and the overall design resembled sFH 13. --Arbalestier (talk) 18:28, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: no (heavy) artillery on this vehicle, short range heavy infantry gun in all versions of the Grille. Incapable of carrying an artillery gun of this caliber. --Denniss (talk) 19:38, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. The cannon on Grille was sIG 33, I assume. So it could not be armed with sFH 14 (correct spelling, not sFH 13K) --User:Arbalestier (talk) 07:24, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modifications 

message: I've been browsing the corresponding article in other Wikipedias, and from a few of these seems that there was an "Ausf K" variant; the pic from the Aberdeen surviving vehicle is marked as such. However, there are few citations in most of those articles; and I don't have my reference material at hand. Can anyone please help clarify this matter? Thanks, DPdH (talk) 16:50, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The Grille Ausf. K is the later variant built onto the Geschützwagen 38(t) Ausf. M chassis (gun mounted in the rear). The Flakpanzer 38(t) built onto the same Ausf. M chassis has the vehicle designation Ausf. L. Taken from Panzer Tracts 23.--Denniss (talk) 17:09, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the fast response! To check if I understood this: the chassis is "Ausf M" but the Grille variant is "Ausf K"? Hence only 2 variants: Grille H (old chassis) and Grille K (new chassis)? Regards, DPdH (talk) 17:59, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The naming in Panzertracts 10/23 is a bit confusing, the chassis may have been named Geschützwagen 38 M (without Ausf.) but it was clearly based on the Ausf. M used by the last Marder III version. According to the chassis numbers given in PT 23 all Grille were new-built vehicles, refurbished 38(t) chassis were used for Marder III conversion.--Denniss (talk) 21:14, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: That's interesting! From photographs, is clear that there are 2 Grille variants, one with the gun in the middle of the chassis ("Ausf H") and another with the gun in the rear (widely identified as "Ausf M", but also seems to be called "Ausf K"); the Geschützwagen 38 M chassis should be the one used for the latter. It'd be great to clarify this confusion so the article can be amended if necessary. Regards, DPdH (talk) 02:44, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: ID of later Grille as M is wrong, both the armed version and the ammo carrier were Ausf. K. The Flakpanzer also used the Geschützwagen 38 M but the vehicle designation wasn't Ausf. M but Ausf. L. One has to separate the designation for a chassis and for a complete vehicle. You'll see the same with Panzer III - all versions since Ausf. J were built on 8. ZW chassis (with minor changes) so in the end you had Ausf. J/L/M/K/N on more or less the same chassis. You will see both Marder III and Grille with Ausf. H because they used the same basic Ausf. H chassis originally intended to be built as Ausf. H tanks. The Grille Ausf. M was probably named so for the similarity to the Marder III Ausf. M but without being supported by facts.--Denniss (talk) 08:15, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: That's clear now. All this sourced from PanzerTracts? I can attempt to rewrite the relevant parts of the article to set things right, if you could please provide the inline citations and peer review. Kind regards, DPdH (talk) 02:11, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Do Not forget that (Auf.) M in the case of the Marder for example means not a sequential version but that it means that the engine was placed in the middle, not the back (Heck in German). 80.151.9.187 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 08:47, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Letter used for chassis variant is not related to engine placement - common myth. --Denniss (talk) 10:53, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Variants - Ausf K?