Talk:List of dukes in the peerages of Britain and Ireland

message: This is a list of dukedoms/duchies of the UK, and not a list of Dukes/dukedom/duchies in general, so it should be moved to some other title. 132.205.45.148 21:07, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And yet, "the Peerages" is hardly a U.K.-specific term.  A.D.H. (t&m) 01:09, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
"The Peerages" seems a bit contrived though it may be a British idiom I'm unfamiliar with. What about List of Dukes in the United Kingdom. If the Irish titles are still applicable in Ireland then List of Dukes in the UK and Ireland. Alternatively: List of British Dukes. Ben Arnold 05:05, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: No, it sounds odd to me too and I'm British. Peerage is also a term that could apply to any other country. List of British Dukes would seem to be the best name. -- Necrothesp 20:36, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was no consensus; however, I'll be WP:BOLD and move it to List of dukes in the peerages of the British Isles instead. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 10:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WP:RM

message: : Add * Support or * Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, or add * followed by a comment, then sign your opinion with "~~~~"
*support. En-wiki is not intended to be so anglocentric. Shilkanni 20:01, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Add * Support or * Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, or add * followed by a comment, then sign your opinion with "~~~~"
* support , although it runs the risk of being confused with the (much shorter) List of dukes in the Peerage of Great Britain and Ireland, Septentrionalis 03:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Might I suggest List of dukes in the peerages of Great Britain and Ireland as a compromise?  This makes the appellation purely geographical, referring to the islands inhabited by these peerages rather than the shifting political entities, and avoiding what I gather is the somewhat controversial designation of Ireland as part of the British Isles. Fishhead64 00:07, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Add * Support or * Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, or add * followed by a comment, then sign your opinion with "~~~~"
* support , although it runs the risk of being confused with the (much shorter) List of dukes in the Peerage of Great Britain and Ireland, Septentrionalis 03:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal

message: Are there still Irish dukes, recognised as such in Ireland? If not why Dukes of the UK and Ireland why not just "dukes of the UK"? When Dukes were still being created Ireland was part of the UK, or should the title be list of "dukes of Great Britain and Ireland" ? --Philip Baird Shearer 09:19, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You make a good point.  I think, however, the proposed title is better on two grounds.  First, since Leinster and Abercorn are peerages in Ireland, it makes sense to include "Ireland" in the title.  Second, having simply "United Kingdom" in the title conveys the message (erroneous, but potentially insensitive) that Ireland is part of the UK.  Users may not automatically assume that the historical United Kingdom is what is being referred to here.  "Great Britain and Ireland" is a better title, in the sense of being more exact, than the one I've suggested, but not so much so that I think it warrants resubmitting a new RM. Fishhead64 17:22, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: discussion

message: There should be one for France.  What about peerages for Orange and Hanover; etc?  IP Address 23:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  France 

message: Duke should be capitalised in the title of this article Grunners 15:08, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article name 

message: The Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay is omitted from the list, yet other Royal Dukes are listed. Why? 195.92.40.49 19:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because he doesn't have precedence as a duke; similarly, those dukes who are also earls are not listed in List of Earls; no qualifier, since there are no other Earls. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cornwall and Rothesay 

message: I'm pretty sure the Duke of Richmond title is in the English peerage, Duke of Lennox in the Scottish and Duke of Gordon in the British. Shouldn't these be marked separately, even if they are and always have been all held by the same person? Andrei Iosifovich (talk) 01:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Richmond, Lennox and Gordon

message: I eliminated the Dukedom of Ulster from the Irish peerage. I can't find any mention of this dukedom elsewhere, so I assume that it was the work of vandals, Pacomartin (talk) 11:35, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Dukedom of Ulster

message: I have found no proof of the existence of the Duke of Seychelles, either in Debrett's Peerage or anywhere else in Wikipedia. Please prove or remove. Jeremicus rex (talk) 17:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Dukedom of Seychelles

message: The Duke of Cambridge appears under "Dukes in the Peerage of England" and "Dukes in the Peerage of the United Kingdom." Presumably it should be listed under just one of these; which one? Tinmanic (talk) 21:00, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The latter. Opera hat (talk) 22:00, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duke of Cambridge listed twice? 

message: Please do not restore this list to the article until it is properly sourced, and consensus is reached that it should be. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:09, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''List of younger sons of Dukes in the Peerages of the British Isles'' - unsourced, so moved here from article 

message: The article says "In the peerage of England, the title of Duke was created 74 times (using 40 different titles: the rest were recreations). Twice a woman was created a Duchess in her own right (but only for life). Out of the 74 times, 37 titles are now extinct (including the two women's), 16 titles were forfeit or surrendered, 10 were merged with the crown, and 10 are extant..." That adds up to only 73. Richard75 (talk) 11:00, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The article lists 11 English dukes. I have corrected the sentence. Richard75 (talk) 11:24, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Totting up the English titles from the list of dukedoms in the peerages of Britain and Ireland, I make it 75 creations, of which 38 became extinct. Opera hat (talk) 13:43, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Error 

message: I suggest that the page should in some way record that: -
1. The Duke of Richmond, Lennox, and Gordon holds three dukedoms in three peerages.
2. The Duke of Argyll holds two dukedoms in two peerages.
I appreciate that each of them is shown in the position from which he derives his precedence. Could they appear in the other positions in italics? Alekksandr (talk) 21:36, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Especially as the dukedom of Cornwall and the dukedom of Rothesay are shown separately, despite being held by the same man. Alekksandr (talk) 21:31, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Multiple dukedoms

message: Comments? Alekksandr (talk) 17:41, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Now done.Alekksandr (talk) 21:07, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: Thank you to all who have worked on these tables. Can anyone tell me, what do the italics represent in the tables? There should be some kind of key as to why Duke of Lennox etc are italicized and skipped in the order.  perhaps you know? —МандичкаYO 😜 15:29, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: They represent dukedoms whose holders already appear higher up the table. E.g. the man who holds the dukedom of Lennox (created in September 1675 in the peerage of Scotland) also holds the dukedom of Richmond (created in August 1675 in the peerage of England). He takes his predecence from his senior dukedom. So, if all the dukes were walking in a procession at e.g. a coronation, he would be fourth in line, and there would be nobody between the Duke of Buccleuch and Queensberry (13th) and the Duke of Argyll (14th), as the man who holds the dukedom of Richmond and the dukedom of Lennox cannot be in two places in the procession at once. I hope that this makes sense! Alekksandr (talk) 18:49, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

text: I agree that this should be spelt out in the article. As the person who raised the issue, can I ask if you think that the above explanation is suitable for adding to the article? Alekksandr (talk) 19:03, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:   Oh thank you! I thought something like that because Duke of Rothesay was the first one italicized. I think there should be some kind of legend at the bottom where it says "Holds multiple dukedoms." Maybe we could do a slightly different color for that row? I'm trying to think if italics is the best way. —МандичкаYO 😜 19:52, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am agnostic re how best to portray this.Alekksandr (talk) 19:56, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

text: This looks fine as far as it goes. You would probably want to show Duke of Gordon as the tertiary dukedom held by the man whose primary dukedom is Duke of Richmond and whose secondary dukedom is Duke of Lennox. It is up to you whether you want to use different background colours for (1) secondary dukedoms and (2) the only tertiary dukedom. As the article is about dukes in the peerages of Britain and Ireland, it does not have a separate line for that nobleman's quaternary dukedom - Duke of Aubigny - that peerage is in List of French peerages#House of Bourbon. Alekksandr (talk) 12:52, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you so much! I agree about the Dukedoms of Lennox and Gordon. I want to import the table format to List of Earls, List of Viscounts, etc, so this will be very helpful. —МандичкаYO 😜 00:12, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: What do italics represent

message: In heir apparents section Sussex is listed as Royal dukedoms, but Gluocester and Kent is not.
All three are currently royal Dukedoms and all three heirs are not Princes. Archie is a possible future Prince but still not.
Chamika1990 (talk) 15:44, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heir Apparents 

message: “The Earl of Wilton is the heir presumptive to his Marquessate of Westminster.“
What does that even mean??
And is the Marquessate not subsumed into the Dukedom? Or are the succession rules a little different? There is, anyway, nothing about this on the Earl of Wilton’s page. Please clarify.2A00:23C7:E284:CF00:59B8:7E4B:2A19:70BF (talk) 23:03, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The Marquessate was created before the Dukedom, so if the current Duke died without heir, the Dukedom would be extinct while the Marquessate would go to the Earl of Wilton since he is descended from the brother of the 2nd Marquess. The family tree on Duke of Westminster might help explain it as well.Emk9 (talk) 03:24, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Heir Presumptive?

message: Should the title of Duke of Lancaster not be part of the list? I understand that it is held by the monarch but it is a dukedom nonetheless. Vesuvio14 (talk) 19:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This part "but this is a tradition that has no constitutional warrant, and the British monarch is not styled legally so within either the County Palatine of Lancashire nor the Duchy of Lancaster in any official capacity (for example, Letters Patent or Acts of Parliament), merely as a sign of local, 'Lancastrian' loyalty." makes me think that it's not officially a title. Additionally, Royal dukedoms in the United Kingdom says "However, legally the monarch is not the Duke of Lancaster: peerages are in origin held feudally of the sovereign who, as the fount of honour, cannot hold a peerage of him- or herself. The situation is similar in the Channel Islands, where the monarch is addressed as Duke of Normandy, but only in accordance with tradition. He or she does not hold the legal title of Duke of Normandy." Emk9 (talk) 20:43, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I see. Thank you! Vesuvio14 (talk) 21:25, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duke of Lancaster