Talk:Oranges and Lemons

message: This is completely not relevant at all, but in India we used to play the same game with different lyrics:
: Oranges and lemons, sold for a penny,
: All the school girls are so many!
: The grass is green and the rose is red,
: Remember me when I am dead-dead-dead-dead-dead!
And on the last "dead", you bring your hands down, like the chopper. The school girl reference is weird, but trust me, this is a real game.
Gaurav 19:51, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: In India...

message: Hey for the trivia section: wasn't that rhyme used in a recent popular fiction novel? i want to say a Dan Brown book but i am not sure.
--Kstrubb 05:37, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: never mind.--Acebrock 23:10, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: I just read in Bamber Gascoigne's Encyclopedia of Britain that St Clement, Eastcheap is near the docks where the citrus fruit would be unloaded. Is Bamber right, and if so is this the origin? --Bonalaw 14:43, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't certain which of the two churches is the correct one. Both churches could have been taken into account by the people who first sang the rhyme. The Eastcheap one, near London Bridge, is more towards the East End though, where children coming up with the rhyme are thought to have come from, although this is by no means certain. Orphan Wiki 21:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: St Clement's

message: Entering 'Oranges lemons' into a popular search engine I have encountered a great deal of information and background research on this old song, much of which is absent from the existing article.  For obvious copyright reasons I cannot 'steal' it however someone more alert to the legalities of information on the internet might be able to examine and decide upon appropriate use of information such as at the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A696125) or here http://www.rhymes.org.uk/oranges_and_lemons.htm and especially here http://www.rhymes.org.uk/london-bells.htm.  I believe that it is fair use to link to these articles in the context of a discussion. Clearly there is more to this song and its history than is currently conveyed in the article.  Aethandor (talk) 10:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  more information 

message: A different arrangement of the lyrics appears in "Tommy Thumb's Song Book for All Little Masters and Misses" (1788).
An 1815 reprint of this book is available here:
http://www.archive.org/details/tommythumbssongb00loveiala
Not sure whether these lyrics deserve a space in the article, or whether the book should be referenced?
Neonpaul (talk) 23:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early arrangement of lyrics 

message: Is this really the most common version?  I've always heard it sung as "five farthings".  I would guess that the most common London version is probably five too; we're only a short train ride to central London from here.  Five seems to fit the rhythm of the song better too.  But maybe it's just inflation!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.125.217 (talk) 08:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nineteen-Eighty-four uses "three farthings" which should be noted. --98.212.94.145 (talk) 05:18, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Five farthings is the only version I have heard. Orphan Wiki 17:05, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three farthings? 

message: Under Origins and meanings, the last sentence of the first paragraph, even taken in context, makes no sense: "They may come from a tower in London with the names of all these bells." This probably was intended to mean that the bells mentioned are those audible from the Tower of London, significantly someone awaiting execution. Examining a map of the area, it overlooks other churches, but perhaps these were the most identifiable. I don't have time to make a good enough edit to the article right now.--Rfsmit (talk) 13:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Excellent map; just what I wanted to see when I read the article, which I've added it to. :-) 92.25.15.35 (talk) 15:09, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins and meanings is... meaningless! 

message: The tune is mentioned a few times in the article with no description of it. I intend to create an image of the sheet music.--Rfsmit (talk) 13:56, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tune 

message: It is good to see that we have information on the churches referred to in the rhyme. However, this is confined to only the shorter, modern version. It probably wouldn't go amiss to research exactly which churches were being referred to in the other lines, as they're all most likely to still be there today. I live in London, so I can find them, like I've done with the others. St Giles, St Peter's, Whitechapel, Aldgate, St Catherine's, St Anne's, St John's etc... I will look into it if I have time, but, as that in hard to come by, if anyone else feels interested.... Orphan Wiki 21:06, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Its a fair point. I will try to have a look as well.--SabreBD (talk) 21:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Church locations 

message: Do we know that the name of this band has anything to do with the nursery rhyme? Szarka (talk) 15:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Music: Japanese folk pop band 

message: The children go through single file: the two children of the arch decide quietly that one is 'gold/oranges' the other 'silver/lemons' - and when caught the child says one term or the other, and joins the relevant column: when all are assigned, there is a tug of war.
Probably, like jacks the children in each locality/school develops their particular version. Jackiespeel (talk) 18:01, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Another version of the game

message: I just stumbled upon this page St_Martin's_Church,_Ruislip and that meant I came here - any chance this might be the one refered to - in which case should it go in with the other 2 possibles?
EdwardLane (talk) 12:21, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems pretty unlikely, given the location. What there some sort of claim somewhere I missed?--SabreBD (talk) 23:44, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  st martin's 

message: I see that there is an article for a similar Korean game. Would other similar games be notable?
There is a very similar game in Denmark, with a totally different and very mysterious text
Bro, bro, brille                         bridge, bridge, spectacle (for the yes)
klokken rigner elleve                    the bell rings eleven
kejseren står på sit høje, hvide slot    the emperor is standing on his high, white castle
så hvidt som et kridt                    as white as a chalk
så sort som et kul                       as white as a coal
fare fare krigsmand                      danger danger warrior
døden skal du lide                       death you shall suffer
den der kommer allersidst                who comes the very last
skal i den sorte gryde                   goes into the black pot
første gang så la'r vi ham gå            the first time we let him go
anden gang så ligeså                     the second time likewise
men tredje gang så ta'r vi ham           but the third time we take him
og putter ham i gryden                   and put him into the pot
At "take" the people, usually adults, forming the bridge close their arms. The child caught is placed behind one side of the bridge. At the end of the game there is a tug of war between two sides.
:The most important thing is that a reliable source needs to state that it is similar or possibly linked. If so then I think it could go in, although if it has an article a link may do.--SabreBD (talk) 06:58, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar games 

message: What is this ? Mentioned in Rules... 'stand on a pressure plate.'  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:FC05:2B1C:6B63:28AB (talk) 21:52, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pressure plate? 

message: 'Problematically for these theories the last two lines,'
Please rewrite this sentence and remove the horrid word 'problematically'. 
It is a hideous American mis-usage, and it does not mean what you are trying to make it mean.2001:44B8:3102:BB00:A4EF:5A33:F518:812 (talk) 01:56, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oh please, please.... 

message: When I was a kid, we sang this, but it ended with:
"And this is the end | says the bell of Big Ben."
Anyone know this version?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.237.20.22 (talk) 18:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  And this is the end?