Talk:Law enforcement in the United Kingdom

message: It it worth mentioning the Strathclyde Police uniform? They've dropped white shirts, and wear black t shirts with body armour on top, for pretty much all officers on duty.  11:10, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: "Old Bill" will redirect to this page, but "Old Bill" is not then mentioned on this page. "Old Bill" needs to redirect to slang (it's slang for police, mainly in London). If "Old Bill" is to redirect to here, we need to show a reason why it's done so.
Ajarmitage (talk) 13:00, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: it's the same with "bobbies"; there is no mention of the term anywhere in the article, though clicking on it led me here. 99.251.204.24 (talk) 17:37, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference to this page

message: A smaller stray article United Kingdom police needs merging into this one --mervyn 15:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge needed

message: Some of you might have noticed the  template has been quite volatile recently. Your input is welcome: Template talk:UK Police#It's got bigger again. Thanks/wangi 13:33, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Volatile template 

message: I've added a cleanup box to the history section of this article, because some of the bullet points have no information whatsoever.  For example, 1812: A commitee examined the Policing of London in England.  What commitee?  What was examined and why?  What was the result of the examination? IanUK 13:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History Section 

message: Anglo Saxon England had a strong community based sociological structure. Counties were divided into tithings.  Tithingsmen were forerunners of the policeman.
A tithing was a group of ten households living within an area and had a collective responsiblity for each other's behaviour.  All households inside the tithing were required to provide a man*, to stand 24 hours watch over the community, once in ten days.  Proof of the fulfilment of their duty of making rounds of the community was by calling out the hour, on the hour, and that all was well.  The better-off members of the community often paid others to perform their duties and thus opened the door to corruption and disrepute.
A communal responsibility for behaviour came hand in hand with a communal liability for restitution as a result of misbehaviour.  It was this liability, rather than community spirit, that gave rise to the call, “Stop (the) thief!” and the hue and cry of the chase.
The formation of professional, organised and accountable police forces as we know them today came out of the call for the abolition of the corrupt and disreputable practices of the tithingsmen (Sometimes called watch keepers or rounds men).
The sheriff and his posse: The “posse” was in fact a collective responsibility of all men* of the county (*15 years and older the having taken the Frank pledge) to support the Shire Reeve in times of need, for example; with public disorder.  The Shire Reeve was the Kings agent and responsible for Law, Order and Taxation. King William (He of 1066) had reputed problems with pronouncing “Shire Reeves” and the court soon followed the royal practice of naming them Sheriffs instead. The office of Sheriff exists today, albeit in a somewhat ceremonial function.
It is this ancient English collective responsibility and duty of able-bodied men to come to the assistance of the Sheriff that provides the background to the images of the Wild-west sheriff and his posse chasing the bad guys, the same origin as the tithingsman and the roots of policing in England as a community service.
--Brianjones51 15:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Addendum to the Histry

message: ...has gone. Give me one month I'll get one of myself, marking out my collar number. Or you could ask another of the uk officers on wikipedia who feel posey. I suggest Dep. Garcia :D SGGH speak! 21:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea, i don't mind being volunteered, but since I'm not firearms anymore i will have to get one of my colleagues, who is, too take the picture for me =]. All being well i will have it in a few days! A reply from me at SGGH talk page. Dep. Garcia  ( Talk  + | Help Desk | Complaints )  16:39, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put one up now SGGH speak! 20:37, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What ho? The image! 

message: Can the UK Immigration Service and the UK Customs and Revenue be considered as police forces?
:No. They're entirely civilian organisations, although with some law enforcement powers. -- Necrothesp 16:45, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I don't disagree that the Immigration Service and Customs and Revenue aren't police forces, I should point out that UK police are generally also all civilian organizations. -- SiobhanHansa 18:03, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK Immigration Service and UK Customs. 

message: More than one UK editor has commented that the term "law enforcement" isn't much used in the UK like it is in North America (where I am). Shouldn't this article be renamed "Policing in the United Kingdom" then? bobanny 07:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would make more sense to me.  Does anyone here know why the article was called law enforcement in the first place? -- SiobhanHansa 18:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just checked, and it appears to have been moved in order to standardize the category :Category:Law enforcement by country. I'm all for standardization standardisation, but it shouldn't come at the expense of regional specificity. If "law enforcement" is considered an Americanism in the UK, it should be changed back, but I'm not in a position to make that call. My understanding is that "law enforcement" is used only infrequently in the UK to account for non-police agencies that have law enforcement powers, whereas in the US, "police" and "law enforcement" are interchangable. The reason in the US is that policing is constitutionally a local power, so federal police (e.g., FBI, DEA, ATF) are called law enforcement rather than police. Anyone in the UK want to weigh in? bobanny 19:18, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the research.  I've invited User:Kintetsubuffalo and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law Enforcement to contribute to the discussion too.  -- SiobhanHansa 19:41, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

text: It was moved at my behest if I remember correctly. My reasons were simply that using "law enforcement" standardised it with the other law enforcement articles. I would vote to keep it as such for mere standardisation's sake, I'm British but I write in American on here because that seems to be the norm, I don't really agree with this british-talk-for-british-articles thing, but whatever concensus is reached here will be fine with WP:LE as far as I know. :) SGGH speak! 18:36, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Was there any thought about the fact that this article doesn't cover law enforcement in the UK in general, but only policing?  (And does that have any practical impact at the moment?) -- SiobhanHansa 19:10, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that standardising to an American term is unacceptable and really the argument dcould eb used to change all the law enforcement articles to soemthing more neutral. I think Policing in the UK sounds much better and would support said move, SqueakBox 19:13, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. "Policing in..." is far more appropriate. "Law enforcement in..." can be made a redirect or a diambiguation or other explanatory page, as appropriate. Nick Cooper 19:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I disagree, "law enforcement in..." is a very appropriate title for many of the other articles I believe, because 85% of such articles cover all aspects of law enforcement in that country, and outside of the UK law enforcement isn't that uncommon a term. Hence why the UK article was moved to law enforcement. I don't disagree the move of this article to policing in... but I oppose the renaming of all other law enforcement in articles in such a manner, and certainly the latter discussion should be made on WT:LE as it very much concerns the law enforcement wikiproject, I feel. SGGH speak! 22:15, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name change?

message: :Image:Metpolice1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Metpolice1.jpg

message: Is this really a correct pictur to use here? The car itself was only on loan from Lamborghini London, and was only used for publicity, never as a working car. Darkson (Yabba Dabba Doo!) 15:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then it's probably inappropriate.  Giving the impression the Police actually drive such a vehicle is wrong, and highlighting something that's just a PR car gives it inappropriate weight. -- SiobhanHansa 16:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lamborghini Gallardo 

message: This whole article needs a rewrite, because it is only concerned with the police and not other law enforcement agencies. ninety:one 11:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite 

message: This section is poorly sourced and/or very badly written, and highly selective, so I'm deleting the whole thing. Nick Cooper (talk) 02:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Controversial cases" cases 

message: I've been working on an entire re-write to include all LE personnel, and would appreciate feedback. User:Ninetyone/test2. Thanks! ninety:one 22:25, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jurisdictions and territories 

message: It mentions in the text that MOD Police have 'extended' jurisdiction when requested by a Home Office constable for assistance. British Transport Police also have this jurisdiction - known as the Extended Jurisdiction which is outlined in the Terrorism Act 2000. This enables BTP officers, say on duty in the city centre near railway property, to assist the local HO force for any reason without there being a problem of the BTP officers being 'out of their jurisdiction'. BNC85 (talk) 05:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended Jursidictions 

message: The image of the Ford Focus is non-representative of UK police cars:
- One the Vauxhall Astra is the most populous police vehicle used in the UK
- The Focus is a first generation model and therefore probably not still in service
There fore i will change the focus image with an astra photos from the Bedfordshire Police page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbyfett (talk • contribs) 17:38, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Change 

message: Its very good, certainly brings all the information together. Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 17:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  RE: First use of Law enforcement in the United Kingdom template 

message: John Nevard has twice tried to introduce the following text:
:Officers are often subjected to long bureaucratic inquiries following routine responses to armed offenders. These frontline officers are then placed on support or training duties, and are unable to respond to further violent offenders.
Both references refer to the fact that in incidents in which armed polcie open fire, their actions are investigated as a matter of routine. It is not the case - as implied by John Nevard's text - that "routine" deployments of such officers as a whole are investigated to the level in question, i.e. at which officers are suspended from firearms duties pending the outcome. It should also be noted that both reports deal solely with the Metropolitan Police, and there is little evidence that there are similar concerns in other forces. Nick Cooper (talk) 17:52, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits by John Nevard 

message: Hi! This is from Guardian so it should be considered reliable and included somewhere in the "recent section". Anyway, it is unneutral to put it under "Recent issues"—that would imply that privatisation is automatically an issue like racism and stuff. Suggestions on how this could be added without bias? -- Frous (talk) 16:59, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent government plans of partial privatisation (2012) 

message: "...Territorial police constables have certain powers of arrest in countries (my emph.) other than the one they were attested in..."
Should countries not be counties?
Does UK PC have power of arrest (say) in USA? or China?
Nothern Ireland police cannot (officially) cross the Irish border, not to mention arrest someone in Eire. 
If I am wrong - tell me. Thanks  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.78.127.240 (talk) 14:46, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  correction? 

message: Could someone look at the height section?  It states that height restrictions were dropped because of the 1999 Macpherson Report, and then goes on to say that they were dropped in 1990.  Both statements are unreferenced. 82.28.223.138 (talk) 21:35, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Also says dropped in london/met in May 1990 and all Provincial Police Forces in sept 1990. elsewhere in the paragraph is said gradually removed in the early 90s. i've never heard the term Provincial Police Forces in the UK and not sure if it incorporates all forces at the time. there are several inconsistencies and grand statements in that section are unreferenced.Rayman60 (talk) 16:15, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Height 

message: Something I am curious about is the legal basis for police forces and their status as corporate bodies and the status of police officers themselves.  Constable is an appointed office, and has been shown in the courts several times to not be an employment contract, so some discussion of this kind of detail would be useful, I think. 2.221.118.147 (talk) 13:17, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legal basis 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The "Funding" section seems to be a collation of every article about police cuts that certain editors can find, rather than being a balanced overview of the topic. I've added a tag to this and recommend that it be drastically trimmed down. Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 11:54, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I decided to edit it myself; it was clearly inadequate. Both in terms of slant and in terms of recentism – we're not even 2/3 of the way through this year yet and we already had six paragraphs about what people have said during it. It didn't even say anything about the formula for calculating the distribution of funding to each force, either. Anywikiuser (talk) 12:40, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undue section 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The current top picture is of a mounted police officer, which I don't think is a great image since mounted police are fairly atypical. I propose changing the lead image for one of the below which I think are more typical of UK police
200px
What does anyone else think? Pi (Talk to me!) 20:49, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough, but mounted police are a vast deal more atypical than traffic, so we certainly need something else at the top. There are lots of unillustrated stretches, & more pics are needed generally. I've added a couple lower down. Johnbod (talk) 18:19, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: So I've added the middle on above, for now. This article is extremely long, and large parts of it, such as crown dependencies & overseas territories, & the dense juristictional stuff, should go off to new articles.  Then the missing coverage of actual UK policing issues can be added. Johnbod (talk) 18:14, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Main Picture

message: Is the photo of the Sussex naked bike ride day, really appropriate for a key Wiki page about a serious subject?
I also don't see what relation it has particularly to the article, there are plenty of events where all are clothed that could be used instead.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fbo194 (talk • contribs) 10:47, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed. Whizz40 (talk) 10:22, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appropriate photo? 

message: Any input on this question would be very welcome - Wikipedia_talk:Notability#Q_about_chief_constables. Thanks in advance. 10mmsocket (talk) 12:53, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability of chief constables 

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