Talk:Esham

message: In the opening paragraph it states: ESHAM (East Side Hoes And Money) (born Rashaam Attica Smith on September 20, 1973) is a rapper from Detroit, Michigan and member of the hip hop group Natas. He calls his style of rock-influenced hip hop "acid rap". He released his first album, Boomin' Words from Hell, in 1990 at the age of 13.
I'm unsure as to when he was born or when his first album dropped or at what age, but if he was born in 1973, then in 1990 he would have been 17, not 13 as this states.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Echosider (talk • contribs) 21:11, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Amazingly, to much confusion, Mickey Hess' Hip Hop in America: A Regional Guide: Volume 1: East Coast and West Coast lists Esham's birth year as 1977, which would place Esham as releasing his first album at the age of 12, which is certainly not true. (Sugar Bear (talk) 00:11, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Sources said that he released his first album at 13. He was not born in 1973. WTF (talk) 09:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Esham Age of First Album 

message: I haven't seen anywhere where it said 'Rashaam' was his birth name or any references for that being accurate on here.  I have information for 'Esham' being his birth name and have a reference listed for it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.247.137.111 (talk) 01:16, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The first two references in the article both say his real name is "Rashaam Smith". One is online, check here. Please also not that blogs are not reliable sources. --Tgeairn (talk) 01:20, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It is the blog for his website, it isn't just 'a blog'.  If it's going to say 'Rashaam' is his birth name, I would like to see a reference for that being accurate since I have not seen that as being accurate information anywhere, only false.  Metrotimes isn't an accurate source of information but thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.247.137.111 (talk) 01:27, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It is NOT the blog for his website. He has openly said he has nothing to do with the Esham.wordpress account. I know Esham has stupid fans, so I direct you to WP:Reliable sources. There are four reliable sources, including MTV, Allmusic and two published books on hip hop identifying Esham's birth name as Rashaam. If you think his parents named him East Side Hoes And Money, you are incredibly stupid. Esham is a stage name. End of story. 50.39.221.35 (talk) 10:06, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

text: Lies, lies, and more lies. You know it damn well. dannymusiceditor  oops  04:13, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Esham vs. Rashaam being birth name 

message: Just as an FYI, there's going to be a merger proposal over at Merger proposal/notability discussion for the genre over whether or not the subject of acid rap as a genre deserves its own page. There's been a reversion war over the topic and I thought that it would be good to at least revisit the subject since it's been a while since the last merger proposal. Tokyogirl79  (｡◕‿◕｡)  16:26, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080922032350/http://www.acidrap.com:80/eshamcatalog.html to http://www.acidrap.com/eshamcatalog.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110706052811/http://allhiphop.com:80/stories/features/archive/2011/07/04/22831145.aspx to http://allhiphop.com/stories/features/archive/2011/07/04/22831145.aspx
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: You know how you "verify" statements on Wikipedia? Reliable sources. You don't go to a bunch of dumb fan sites and ignore the reliable, researched sources like Allmusic which say his real name was Rashaam Smith and he was 13 when he released his debut album. You just don't do that.
:No we don't just ignore reliable sources, but this was never the situation. What you say is covered by the sources is not at all what they say. And sign your posts with four tildes, please. The source does actually say he released it at 16.dannymusiceditor  Speak up!  23:47, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Verification 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: After a bout of sockpuppet disruption from banned User:Sugar Bear, the biography has been placed under protection. While protection continues, we should figure out what to write about Esham's birth info.
Our sources provide contradictory information about Esham's birth name and birth year. Especially troubling is that Jason Birchmeier contradicts himself between an online source and a book source. In 2000, MTV confidently gives one age, but 12 years later they are not so sure. Below is a list of what the sources say:
*1973 – Esham A. Smith. Jason Birchmeier writing in AllMusic. The source also says Boomin' Words from Hell was released in 1989, but the album review page says 1990.
*1976–1977 – Rashaam Smith. Jason Birchmeier writing in All Music Guide to Hip-Hop, page 160 (.) No specific year of birth given, but it says that Esham was 13 in 1990 when Boomin' Words from Hell was released, so if it was released before his birthday in September then he would have been born in 1976. If it was released after, the birth year would be 1977.
*1976–1977 – Rashaam Smith. Metro Times of Detroit in 2008.
*1974 – Esham Smith. MTV wrote in early 2000 that Esham was 25 years old. That means he would turn 26 in September 2000. They wrote that he was 15 when Boomin' Words from Hell was released.
*1974 or 1976 – Rashaam Smith. MTV wrote in 2012 that Esham was either 13 or 15 when Boomin' Words from Hell was released in 1989.
*Rashaam Smith. Chicago Tribune in 2003.
*Esham Smith. Joel Whitburn's Billboard Music Yearbook 2001, page 176.
*Rashaam A. Smith a.k.a. Esham A. Smith. Court documents from the 2005 sampling case in Bridgeport Music, Inc. v. Smith give two names for Esham, with Rashaam listed first, but no description of which name was chronologically first in his life.
*1973 – Esham Attica Smith. Myheritage.com lists this name and birth year, supported by various official documents such as census files and birth certificates. They also list another entry, Esham A. Smith, born in 1977. The myheritage.com website does not have anything at all to support the name Rashaam Smith as birth name. 
The problem we have is how we represent these contradictions to the reader. To me, it looks like Esham Attica Smith was the birth name, with "Rashaam" some kind of later name, if the myheritage sources are to be trusted. And if that's the case, then 1973 is the year. Otherwise, the names Esham and Rashaam are equally represented in the reliable sources, and the middle name is only shown by the initial A, if at all. The birth years go from 1973 to 1977. Binksternet (talk) 04:11, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth year and name