Talk:Patrick Brown (Canadian politician)

message: Why is it that bad stuff about Patrick has mysteriously been replaced with good?
e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Patrick_Brown_%28politician%29&diff=83871168&oldid=83129377
Neither have listed any sources, so I'm not inclined to put a lot of faith in either, except that the whole sign thing was actually a real issue. Heck, I'm pretty sure it was common knowledge. Yeah, no source, but if that warrants deletion, then all the praise for Patrick there now should be cleared out as well.
69.157.72.230 06:02, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old dispute over article changes 

message: "Brown was re-elected to parliament in the 2008 election by a massive margin. He easily defeated the Liberal candidate by 15,000 votes, achieving the larger margins in the province. Brown has gained wide spread support in Barrie for his work recruiting doctors, fundraising for the cancer care expansion, frequent passport clinics, the return of the GO Train to Barrie, and a surprisingly steady stream of federal projects being announced by Brown throughout his term in office."
I find this last paragraph somewhat questionable. It makes it sound like Brown's strong showing was directly a result of his supposed support but this says nothing of Stéphane Dion's very low support as Liberal leader, not to mention the relatively unknown status of Rick Jones, Brown's challenger.
I also would question the GO Train as a source of support for Patrick, since it was approved under the previous MP, Aileen Carroll. The bit about the "surprisingly steady stream of federal projects" just sounds like it came out of a campaign brochure.
Any thoughts? I'll admit I'm not a fan of Brown to make clear my bias but I think the article should be neutral and I've seen in the past that it's been curiously edited for the positive, as mentioned in the above discussion section.
MatttK (talk) 22:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and made an edit to the article, since nobody has read the discussion in a week. What I did was I sourced the election results and then included some information and a source about Dion's effect on the election. I also removed the bit about the GO Train (find me an unbiased source on that one - you won't because it was approved under the previous MP - Patrick takes credit for this for political games) and the "steady stream of federal projects" bit that sounds like it came out of his campaign brochure. Elaborate and source it if you think it is true. MatttK (talk) 17:32, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  2008 election performance 

message: I am periodically checking this article, as it has a history of people coming to delete any potentially negative information about MP Brown, while adding in more positive information. If you want to do this, know that your changes are quite clearly saved in the history and are going to get reverted, if you're just deleting things without cause. Like or dislike Patrick Brown but let's try to keep this article neutral. Feel free to debate in this talk section if you don't agree with information in the article. MatttK (talk) 14:14, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This time, the vandalism was done by 192.197.82.155, which reads as parl155.parl.gc.ca. So that's nice that someone in government is trying to censor this article. MatttK (talk) 10:24, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

text: Looks like someone at the Parliament did it again. Same IP. MatttK (talk) 17:45, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  don't you know that you're never far away from the prying eyes of the harpoon and his goons? 184.145.95.157 (talk) 23:16, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't think childish name-calling makes you any better than the worst of the mud-slingers in the Conservative Party. :) MatttK (talk) 09:24, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warning to those with nefarious intent 

message: I removed the new paragraph because the 308 article in question actually specifically states that the poll is highly suspect and of questionable value.
:Even though Brown has sold about 40,000 of the 90,000 memberships in the party, in terms of who party members would vote for, as of March 31, 2015 he was trailing behind Elliot (51%) & McNaughton (13%), at 10% according to a poll conducted by Forum.{{url=</nowiki>http://www.threehundredeight.com/2015/03/forum-tried-to-poll-pc-party-members.html}}</nowiki>
I replaced it with a new version of the old, deleted paragraph:
:In March Brown, emerged as the potential front-runner in the race, having sold over 40,000 of the 70,000 memberships in the party. By votes alone, this could see Brown elected on the first ballot come May. Brown's success thus far has been attributed to a highly effective campaign, through which he has brought many new members to the party. The past four leadership contests were won by those who sold the most memberships.
Compare to:
:Brown has recently emerged as the apparent front-runner in the race, having sold over 40,000 of the 70,000 memberships in the party. This could see Brown elected on the first ballot come May. Brown's success has been attributed to a highly effective campaign, through which he has brought many new members to the party. The past four leadership contests were won by those who sold the most memberships.
I have modified the wording to address the concerns in the revision history, I hope. However, I do not agree that the paragraph didn't contain anything from the article. In fact, the paragraph's content was 100% from the article. If you disagree, let's discuss here what went wrong in the wording to give you this impression.
Edit: Forgot to sign yesterday. :) MatttK (talk) 12:20, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ontario PC leadership election latest changes 

message: Every news article I read clearly lists Patrick Brown as the front-runner in this race. The article used to designate him as such but it was removed as "misleading". I'm not sure how this can be said to be misleading, given that he's sold the most seats and has the most buzz in the media, given his rise from a nobody to a somebody. Take a look at the following articles:
http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/03/01/patrick-brown-sells-more-than-40000-ontario-pc-memberships.html
http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/2015/03/29/patrick-brown-promises-to-reset-pc-party
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/14/patrick-brown-christine-elliott-ontario-pc-leadership_n_7065484.html
http://www.simcoe.com/news-story/5569250-patrick-brown-from-long-shot-to-front-runner/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/browns-hustle-attracts-eclectic-donor-group-in-ontario-pc-leadership-race/article24124468/
This is just a small sample of articles, which define Brown as the front-runner for multiple reasons. I realize that there are editors here who are openly not supporters of Brown but I don't think this should colour our presentation of the facts. Unless somebody can show me evidence to the contrary, I will re-add the front-runner wording to the article. In my opinion, it is certainly noteworthy that a nobody from Barrie managed to overtake much stronger candidates.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MatttK (talk • contribs) 18:32, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Front-runner? 

message: :On May 9, 2015, Brown was elected leader of the Ontario PC Party defeating Christine Elliott and announced that he will be resigning from the federal parliament.
Let's discuss the intro paragraph a little. It was added and re-added that Brown defeated Christine Elliott. The reader at this point has no idea who Christine Elliott is. It also isn't very relevant. I have looked at the articles of several other leaders and have not found mention in the opening paragraph of who they defeated. This info does appear later in the article, so the user can still find it, when it is relevant later on.
Let's also remember to source the stuff that is added. There is no source for Patrick's announcement to resign. I will look for one now. (I didn't actually read that he had done that already but it makes sense that he would)
MatttK (talk) 09:15, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro paragraph 

message: In his first municipal election, I'm not sure Brown did beat the incumbent; I think the incumbent either was dead or had resigned due to illness.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by FrancisRobert9 (talk • contribs) 23:33, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Municipal election 

message: The latest version by Tkbrett portrays a situation different from the actual events. The lie detector mention was removed by Tkbrett. Like it or not, Brown had a lie detector test done. Believe the results or not, he used the results to reenter the race. To not have this creates an inaccurate Wikipedia. I suppose one might try to discredit the lie detector examiner or discredit the validity of the lie detector but the test is a part of the Brown saga. Vanguard10 (talk) 04:41, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read up on original research and WP:SYNTH. Nixon Now (talk) 06:57, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your suggestions. The fact of the matter, which is essential for Wikipedia, is not that the lie detector test proved or disproved guilty or that some may not want mention of lie detectors because some courts do not allow them. The fact of the matter is that Brown took lie detector tests and that it was a major factor in his entering the leadership race. That should be in Wikipedia for accuracy and completeness. Vanguard10 (talk) 04:54, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you may want to read Nixon Now's link again. The conclusion that you're enthusiastically pushing does not seem to follow from the references you are providing.--Tkbrett (talk) 05:21, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I am writing no conclusion in the article. I even added the word "claims" to give weight to anti-Brown people. I am not pro-Brown, never heard of the man a month ago. It is an interesting way he is trying to clear himself. Rather than say "no, I didn't", he also took lie detector tests and then re-entered the race. That is historical. Not quite as historical as Juno Beach, but still a historic saga. Vanguard10 (talk) 05:36, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: is correct. It should stay in. Nocturnalnow (talk) 19:16, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a source that says Brown entered the race because of the lie-detector test because none of the quotes Vanguard10 is quoting above actually say that - which is why it looks like WP:SYNTH to me. Nixon Now (talk) 19:21, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The version in Wikipedia that has been up for more than 24 hours does not say "because". There is no synthesis. In fact, the Wikipedia version that I put in is a bit skeptical, using the word "claims". Perhaps, it should be more neutral? Vanguard10 (talk) 04:09, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Lie detector

message: Nixon Now brings up an excellent point! Let's carefully examine every statement in the section that does not have a citation, in order to follow BLP.
Here's the version since yesterday and today:
On January 24, 2018, citation available? probably easily found Brown was accused by two women of engaging in sexual misconduct should have a citation where it says "sexual misconduct" and not make up the term ourselves, which dated back to the time he was a federal MP  - citation for "federal MP" . Brown denied the allegations and initially refused to step down . Four senior staff from Brown's campaign had advised him that he should resign as party leader is this in citation 43? ; he did not accept their advice and consequentially the staff jointly resigned from his campaign team.[43] After pressure from within the party is this in the citation?, he resigned as leader in the early hours of January 25.[44][2][3][4][5] The day after his resignation, he was succeeded on an interim basis by Nipissing MPP Vic Fedeli.[45]
Fedeli, who was unanimously elected by caucus the day after Brown's resignation, asked Brown to take a leave of absence from Queen's Park while he defends himself against the allegations this definitely needs a citation. He added that he would not sign Brown's nomination papers if he attempted to run in a Barrie riding at the June 7 provincial election.[46] Brown had intended on running in Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte in that election, but Fedeli's announcement would mean that he would have to run as an independent. 
In one incident, there was an allegation that Brown exposed himself to a teenager and asked her to engage in oral sex after plying her with alcohol. The accuser alleged that she was an 18-year-old high school student when the oral sex incident occurred but on February 13, 3 weeks after the first public report, she amended her claim to say she was a year older than she had previously recalled and was therefore over the legal drinking age.[47]In the other incident, Brown was alleged to have kissed, without consent, a female aide in his employ while in his bedroom.[48] Brown later took a lie detector test[49][50][51] and claimed[52] that he felt his name[53] was cleared[54]. No charges have been laid as a result of either alleged incident[55]. He then entered the PC should spell this out leadership race less than one[56] or two hours before the deadline[57].
---
Vanguard10 (talk) 04:16, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Preventing WP:SYNTH

message: I removed "TBD" from the infobox under Vic Fedeli as Patrick Brown's successor. Patrick Brown was succeeded by Vic Fedeli, not whoever the convention chooses. Precedent can be seen in his predecessor's pages. For example, Tim Hudak was succeeded by Jim Wilson, not Patrick Brown. RoyalObserver (talk) 00:01, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox - Ontario PC Leader & Official Opposition Leader 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:07, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: His photo is awful quality. What are the thoughts on using this image? 
:Will provide the same feedback I offered on the 2022 Conservative Party of Canada leadership election talk page. I'd recommend we stay away from the screenshots from that video. The uploader didn't provide appropriate license information when they uploaded the screenshots. Good chance they get deleted. Also, I think the current photo looks better. He's squinting too much in that video. RoyalObserver (talk) 15:05, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: News hasn't broken yet, though it will in the next several hours, that Patrick Brown has been disqualified. A statement emailed out to conservative party members minutes ago from the chair of the Leadership Election Organizing Committee, Ian Brodie, reads in part:
“The information provided to date by the Patrick Brown campaign did not satisfy concerns about their compliance with our Rules and Procedures and/or the Canada Elections Act.  The Chief Returning Officer has therefore recommended to LEOC that LEOC disqualify Patrick Brown and earlier tonight LEOC agreed to do so.  The Party will be sharing the information it has gathered with Elections Canada, who is responsible for ensuring compliance with, and enforcement of, the Canada Elections Act." Floydian τ ¢ 03:00, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brown has been disqualified from the conservative leadership race