Talk:Deschooling

message: Hello Scott
I write because I think the definition of deschooling is too narrow. The Idea I've had for 30 years is that schooling inevitably is a process of indoctrination. Ilich strived for an ideal which would avoid that. Neither he nor his followers have found a satisfactory alternative to schools. Home schooling is often more doctrinaire not less. 
I think the concept of deschooling is useful and valid for adults, probably many years later in mid life. It's the unbundling of your original indoctrination, and re-thinking independent positions for yourself. A process that takes about 10 years if you are lucky. For adults much new learning involves some unlearning. I'm a dancer. Unlearning old habits is a long difficult task.
Deschooling yourself, examining your own indoctrination is difficult in the same way, because we can't "see it". It's part of us, sort of built in, and invisible. 
````  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnsveitch (talk • contribs) 12:01, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Jonsveitch, I really appreciate your comments and the creation of this article as well.  I strongly agree that deschooling is a concept for adults as well as children, and that it's important that the emphasis be on deschooling of _persons and thinking_ rather than on treatment of children solely.  I base this statement on my own experience, and see that you have had a similar experience, but I can cite F. M. Alexander, who constantly reiterated that non-doing is more effective than doing, and that education in present Western society (he lived until 1950) induced rampant, dysfunctional "doing" and bad use of the self (The Use of the Self, F. M. Alexander).   Also, SEMCO, a company in Brazil, which got rid of its rules, essentially, with the influence of a manager who had formerly been an educator at Summerhill (the free school in England and closest in essence to unschooling).  The importance of deschooling as a concept, not simply a practice, is what I think needs to be addressed in this article more, since the question of "How do we educate children?" is a distraction from the more important question, "How do I thoroughly un-delude myself, both for my own happiness and sanity and also to avoid passing on falsehoods to others or misusing power over them for invalid reasons?"[[[User:Anonymous unschooler|Anonymous unschooler]] (talk) 16:34, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

text: As for the statement that "neither he nor his followers have found a satisfactory alternative to schools"--I think this is true to a degree, but it seems to imply that the alternative cannot be found simply because it hasn't been found yet.  But of course, many things have been discovered that previously hadn't been in existence, such as the tungsten filament light bulb for example, and what there are in the meantime for learning are alternatives that, while not ideal, are better than the low standard set by formal schooling.  In the future, there may be total integration of learning in life, and it may simply take time to develop a better model.  Or, for the health of the general community to become great enough that the easy abuse of power over children ceases to look like an acceptable practice.  It could be argued that no alternatives have been given a fully fair trial yet, since to give a fully fair trial to any system of education, you'd have to make it possible for the child to feel that her/his schooling is completely normal within the whole nation; otherwise there is an uncontrolled variable in the experiment, namely that an unschooler or free-schooler feels different and is somewhat out of place in the larger society.  (In spite of this Sudbury Valley Schools and homeschoolers and unschoolers have all demonstrated greater intellectual preparedness and social adjustment than their public school peers in many cases and in surveys). The availability of information through the Internet today makes it possible for anyone who can read and get on line to get a rich education on many subjects.  It's far easier than when you had to look up information in a library only, and the time delay between a desire to know something and an answer was greater.  The publishing of information is far more accessible also, so that many more viewpoints are represented on the Internet than previously.  Lastly, however, alternatives to schooling have existed for longer than schools, much longer, and still exist today; in the few remaining, undisturbed indigenous communities in the world there can be seen integrated education and initiation, allowing children full development and an absence of indoctrination through the form or content of any school (see Some, Malidoma Patrice, _Of Water and the Spirit_).  [[[User:Anonymous unschooler|Anonymous unschooler]] (talk) 16:34, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Deschooling

message: I tried to go to the links; however, these links were not viewable. Therefore, make sure that the links you use are valid and are able to be accessed. EmilycHingle and I added background information about deschooling to give information about who pioneered the term and what views they had about education that made them come to their conclusions. Also, added more details about how deschooling looks like to give a more in-depth information about how a deschooling society is to add to the information in the article already about what deschooling is and how it is practiced by people. Lastly, the links were removed because they were not accessible. Instead, we added scholarly articles/journals that shows were we got the information added and back up the information that was already there. --MadisonLiggio (talk) 04:30, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: MadisonLiggio and EmilycHingle's content was added back since it was reverted. The information added gives more details about Illich and Holt and how the concept got started. We decided to leave what was there about the meaning of deschooling. Therefore, we added a section that told about the thinkers behind deschooling (what they saw that made them want schools to be restructured) and how deschooling looks in context. --MadisonLiggio (talk) 03:01, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: JBaumgartner mentioned that additional links needed to be added when she gave feedback. Therefore, Emily and I took that advice to add a link to an article about Ivan Illich. Also, the phrase "Although the word sounds daunting" was taken out to minimize the sentence sounding like a opinion and sounding like a personal essay or argumentative essay. This edit suggestion was also mentioned by JBaumgartner. --MadisonLiggio (talk) 05:15, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Our peer edit mentioned the need for us to talk about what deschooling is and defining it. The article already had this information. As a result, EmilycHingle and I did not state a definition because one was already there. --MadisonLiggio (talk) 05:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

text: The peer editors of DAP noticed a mistake in the consistency of our tenses in the sentence: Rather than being forced to go to school, take a test before entering a school, be denied the opportunity to learn a desired topic, people would be free to choose how they learn. Therefore, we changed this sentence to be more consistent after the peer editors recognized an important grammatical error that needed correction. --MadisonLiggio (talk) 05:04, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

text: Hello. I've moved and sorted your new posts to the bottom to organize things more a bit. See Help:Talk pages and Help:List on how to format your messages and lists properly. In a nutshell: please post new messages at the bottom, reply an existing message by indenting, and please use the "#" symbol to create numbered lists. Thanks. theinstantmatrix (talk) 22:10, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer editing