Talk:Esoteric programming language

message: I question the etymology of Turing tarpit; the term is in fact due to Alan Perlis, who coined it well before the Whril language ever existed.
:This ancient comment happened due to confusing the term Turing tarpit and Turning tarpit, with the latter term originally created as a joke on a misspelling of the former. Both terms find use among esolang enthusiasts. --Ørjan (talk) 02:30, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Turing tarpit

message: I think that 'not with the intention of being adopted for real-world programming' in introduction section is inappropriate and not true; There are several esolangs invented to test the concepts in programming before applying them to real programming such as 3code, which means esolangs are sometimes used to play a role of touchstone. I think some other expression like 'not with the intention of being directly used for real-world programming' describes esolang better. --218.233.56.240 05:33, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Intention of beong adopted for real-world programming

message: ===Prososed merge from Discrete computer===
I have added a tag proposing that Discrete computer be merged into the Esoteric programming terms section of this article. The term doesn't seem to warrant its own article, at least not with the article in its current state, and this would seem to be the best place for the text. Please post comments on the proposal here. - N (talk) 18:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree. Wrong article. Maybe digital computer? --maru (talk) Contribs 22:00, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Disagree. There's no reason to put discrete computer here; there's nothing esoteric about it. (Continuous computers also aren't esoteric in this sense.) Perhaps we should create an "alternative computer design" page or something to hold differences between discrete vs continuous, Von Neumann vs everything else, quantum computers, etc etc. Piquan 17:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fair enough. I've removed the tag. If anyone would like to have a go at doing something with the article, please do. - N (talk) 19:26, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Esoteric programming terms

message: I have added a tag proposing that Discrete computer be merged into the Esoteric programming terms section of this article. The term doesn't seem to warrant its own article, at least not with the article in its current state, and this would seem to be the best place for the text. Please post comments on the proposal here. - N (talk) 18:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree. Wrong article. Maybe digital computer? --maru (talk) Contribs 22:00, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Disagree. There's no reason to put discrete computer here; there's nothing esoteric about it. (Continuous computers also aren't esoteric in this sense.) Perhaps we should create an "alternative computer design" page or something to hold differences between discrete vs continuous, Von Neumann vs everything else, quantum computers, etc etc. Piquan 17:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fair enough. I've removed the tag. If anyone would like to have a go at doing something with the article, please do. - N (talk) 19:26, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Prososed merge from Discrete computer

message: The article mentions the existence of joke languages, yet doesn't go into any more depth than that. Should examples be included?
I propose:
* 99  was created solely for 99-bottles-of-beer.net, and a blank file outputs the song
* Whitespace  treats characters opposite of most other languages, with spaces, tabs, and newlines being the only valid syntax.
--BBM 03:28, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Joke languages?

message: In the May 19 2006 revision , the last sentence in the second paragraph of the opening reads:
:Thus, by adhering to some principles while deliberately making no sense as a whole (or attempting to hide any sense they make to most people), these languages are perhaps the programming equivalent of nonsense verse.
I'm not quite convinced at this comparison. Especially after skimming thru the article on "nonsense verse" the sentence linked to, I'm hard-pressed to find a good connection between the two. The sentence also suffers from being vague about what "making no sense as a whole" actually mean? A programming language's syntax and semantics, even for most if not all esoteric programming languages, are still highly specified and well-defined, so in that aspect there is nothing "nonsensical" about an esoteric language. Similarly, the fact that it might not be very human-readable is not a convincing criteria of "nonsensical" — just because you cannot read, say, Chinese, doesn't mean it is a nonsensical language, right? (Besides, obsfucation is quite possible in rather conventional languages such as C anyway.)
So overall, I just see little value in this sentence and have taken the bold step to remove it. If anyone wants to add it back in, please consider significantly rephrasing it to avoid the issues I've raised. 24.16.27.166 12:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: removed a sentence

message: Why are the words "programming language" included as part of the article names for the esoteric programming languages? (See :Category:Esoteric programming languages to understand what I mean. When we title an article, any text apart from the name of whatever the article is about is placed in brackets. So instead of TRUE programming language, the article should be titled TRUE, and instead of Lambda programming language, it should be Lambda (programming language) and linked to as disambiguation from the Lambda article. (Assuming Lambda programming language itself survives AfD, but that's not the point.)
This would bring the esoteric languages into consistency with the more familiar ones, such as C++, Visual Basic, Java (programming language) and a whole bunch of others. BrokenBeta [talk · contribs] 16:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're not quoting the category right. To quote a category, so it doesn't act as a category but as a link to that category, append a colon, as in ":Category:Esoteric programming languages". -- Gwern (contribs) 18:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah. Thanks. BrokenBeta [talk · contribs] 18:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Formatting of multiple article titles

message: Does there exist esolangs with objects (with of course highly limited functionality to the objects, but technically objects)?  I am just pondering... --[Svippong - Talk] 15:31, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Category:Object-oriented_paradigm —Ruud 21:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  OO-Esolangs? 

message: LOLCODE has an entry in wikipedia and it links to here, esoteric programming langauge, however on looking through the examples here they don't refer back to lolcode.
I thought I'd mention it. I was going to just make the change myself, it's probably not much harder than typing this, however I don't know how to put in the web links. 82.35.13.32 23:44, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  LOLCODE 

message: "Some more popular languages may appear esoteric (in the usual sense of the word) to some, and though these could arguably be called "esoteric programming languages" too, this is not what is meant."
* I hope I am not deemed overely frivolouse/whimsical when I say, whoever chose this phrasing did an awesome job of such imho.
Thaddeus Slamp (talk) 20:52, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  love this phrasing 

message: There is another "important", practical use of non deterministic languages. Evolutionary programming, such as Tierra (computer simulation).
Keybounce (talk) 20:19, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non deterministic languages 

message: I think to the vast majority of the planet, all programming language is esoteric... NERDS!- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 18:55, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Who programmed your computer? Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 16:52, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ummm 

message: For an academic take, it might be worth looking at whether there's anything relevant to cite in:
* 
--Delirium (talk) 22:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  paper on the subject 

message: http://www.equestriadaily.com/2012/10/fim-update.html
The fim++ programing languaje created by Cereal Velocity and published they specification on Equestriadaily (link) count as a esoteric languaje??  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.188.34.168 (talk) 03:04, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  FiM++ 

message: There isn't enough clear awareness on that Java is a esoteric language, and I keep seeing businesses use it because of this lack of knowledge, I vote it should be added to the page.
--84.82.234.221 (talk) 16:43, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Java 

message: Is the programming language really spelled "Wierd" or is that a typo? Upjav (talk) 03:20, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wierd vs Weird 

message: Hello. I have tagged the sections 'FALSE' with a confusing tag. I believe that the actual code should be set on a newline, and not in the same line as the sentence.
JamesJNHu (talk) 20:27, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. --Ørjan (talk) 01:28, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing tags 

message: 2 + 2 = 2048 is a impressive game, that is available in my ZEN Firefox O.S. mobile. I feel it is relevant to make a point about that game here.
:When Horizontal & Vertical swipe happens addition of same 2'fold number happens in a 4x4 Grid, like 2 + 2 = 4, 4 + 4 = 8, 8 + 8 = 16. 
:2^11 = 2048, 10 + 1 = 11. So I think this game tries the limitation of decimal number in Quantum. I feel consecutive games from one another can do Esoteric Programming Language that can be delved into Quantum Mechanics.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ansathas (talk • contribs) 15:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  2 + 2 = 2048 Firefox Game 

message: User:Rhoark edited the section about Turing tarpits from
:A Turing tarpit is a Turing-complete programming language whose number of commands, operators, or equivalent objects is very small.
to
:A Turing tarpit is a Turing-complete programming language in which any computable function could theoretically be written, but in which it is impractically difficult to do so.
The latter is closer in spirit to the definition used in Wikipedia's Turing tarpit article, and has been so since 2010.
The problem is, the latter is definitely not the definition used in the esolang community for categorizing esolangs.  As such, I think it doesn't belong in a list of esolang terms.  To me the question, then, is whether to change it back (perhaps clarifying) or whether to delete the section outright. --Ørjan (talk) 03:45, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I added clarification. Rhoark (talk) 15:50, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Great! --Ørjan (talk) 06:03, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of Turing tarpit 

message: Would it be more appropriate to call Grass a Toy programming language? 157.127.239.146 (talk) 19:43, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Grass

message: I created Ook! and linked it to the already existing foreign language versions. I made the disambiguation page ( ook ) point to it. It was nominated for deletion almost immediately after I created it. I'm considering adding what I created to this page and allowing it to be deleted. Then the disambiguation could be pointed to the section here. Not sure how the foreign language links would work. Not at all I assume. -Crunchy Numbers (talk) 19:24, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ook! new page has been nominated for deletion 

message: Maybe the list should be trimmed down a bit. There's quite a few, and some of them don't really have a good reason to be there. I already nipped the bud on Train, and removed it from the list. Any more that might need trimmed? --MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 22:08, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trimming down the examples list 

message: Other wikipedia articles link to the sections #Chef and #FALSE, but these sections were removed. Would it be better to add them back in, or remove the references? 72.83.125.130 (talk) 14:16, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The references ought to be removed. —moonythedwarf (Braden N.) 14:59, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted sections 

message: In my opinion, Modiscript is not notable enough to be included in the list. After reading its documentation, it is abundantly clear that it is nothing more than a standard language with some variables and methods renamed. It was first removed by User:MoonyTheDwarf during the first round of trimming, and then numerous times by me and other users. However, anonymous editors always revert the edits without providing any further comment. Would anyone like to weigh in? Envysan (talk) 22:47, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Just looked at it..  It certainly looks "esoteric" - a programming language as religious-social-cultural commentary!  I love it! Jimw338 (talk) 23:34, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

text: Concur: fun but not that notable really. The list should concentrate on notable examples. Jules (Mrjulesd) 23:41, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modiscript 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Chef programming language. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 July 22#Chef programming language until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Adumbrativus (talk) 04:46, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Chef programming language" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: based on APL, which here is considered not "esoteric".
J allows composition of functions = Function-level programming, Function composition (computer science).
J is a very terse array programming language
src: J (programming language)
"very terse" can make J seem "esoteric".
other than "terse", J could be described as "cryptic" or "obscure" or "easy to obfuscate" (Obfuscation (software):
The lack of argument naming gives point-free style a reputation of being unnecessarily obscure, hence the epithet "pointless style".
src: Tacit programming
video: "The J Programming Language" by Tracy Harms (2013)
-- Milahu (talk) 16:04, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  J Programming Language 

message: What does this have to do with hacking? Would really like to see some source for this
They're popular among anyone who codes and wants to explore Turing-completeness or just for the lolz.
Has nothing to do with hacking as far as I see it.
I don't see any application where I, specifically as a hacker, would use an esoteric language or any reason why I find it cool, just because I'm a hacker. LPfote (talk) 19:29, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Popular among hackers" 

message: — Assignment last updated by KAN2035117 (talk) 18:00, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: IFS213-Hacking and Open Source Culture