Talk:List of American Idol alumni album sales in the United States

message: Does William Hung belong on a list of American Idol contestants' CD sales? He was a failed auditioner, he wasn't even a contestant that got a gold ticket. AllDone (talk) 00:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He does belong.  His audition appears on at least one PS2 video game, a DVD set, etc.  Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 07:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes he does belong. Anyone who became notable as a result of Idol should be included. That includes others who were shown with popular rejections or those cut in Hollywood (although no one in that category has had an album with sales figures available). CrazyC83 (talk) 23:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So why was he removed? 75.56.142.244 (talk) 23:34, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No reliable data source available. CrazyC83 (talk) 20:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: William Hung

message: There are several EPs on the list but for some reason, people keep removing the EP from Clay.  There is no reason to include EPs from Jordin Sparks, Blake Lewis and even Haley Scarnato and NOT include Clay.  We should either omit ALL EPs or include them.  My own view is to exclude all EPs from this master list and people can find EPs and pre-Idol albums and other comprehensive information on the individual artist page.  But the key thing is just to be consistent.  MarcoNYC (talk) 00:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Inclusion of EPs

message: Clay Aiken's 4th album " On My Way Here" is officially on its way, Due May 6th, per Reuters and Billboard.com 
AllDone (talk) 08:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fourth Album

message: In addition to giving no sources for any info, this article is prone to being out-of-date frequently and being a non-encyclopedic topic. Unless there is substantial change in the near future, or reasonable discussion, I'm going to redirect this page. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 15:41, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, ok. I'm going to go through and copy any sourced info from the album articles. Unsourced info will disappear from the album articles and here. Any future unsourced info will be reverted. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 19:23, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm done Kelly Clarkson, and it is not going well. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 20:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice that we've had a lot of anonymous updates to this without any source materials and that it has had to be reverted several times in the last couple of weeks.  Does anyone think that this page should be restricted to logged in users?  It might help stop the random unattributed updates to the numbers. Tedying (talk) 20:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsourced

message: Should her album, Songs from the Attic, go on here? I think its sold something like 16,000 copies already. icelandic hurricane #12(talk) 14:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, at the top, it clearly identifies that the list does not include any pre-Idol recordings. Tedying (talk) 02:33, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct; while it can generally be assumed that their appearance helped boost sales of pre-Idol albums (relatively speaking), the production and early sales of those albums were not impacted in any way by them appearing on Idol (since they hadn't even auditioned for the show yet!). As a result, it is probably not fair to compare pre-Idol albums to the chart, since all the chart albums were released knowing they had exposure from the show. CrazyC83 (talk) 17:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well this was rereleased. so... i didn't know if that made a difference. icelandic hurricane #12(talk) 02:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Jordin Sparks sales have not been RIAA certified.  Until they are, she remains on the uncertified list.  The list at the top is for RIAA certified sales. Tedying (talk) 17:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Brooke White

message: so ugh, i changed the table but i guess i need to discuss it.
basically, this view i feel works better, saying 1st album 2nd album 3 album doesnt really work well becuase these albums are released after different seasons. so that effects album sales since people like kelly clarkson have had a 5 year headstart against like Jordin Sparks. so if you display it in a chart with each year you can understand the album sales better. if that makes sense. just my opinion.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.214.162.171 (talk) 03:28, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Format of Table

message: I was watching Fox's New Year's Eve coverage and on the show David Cook was given his first platinum record, so should he be put on the first table now?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.193.229 (talk) 18:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: David Cook

message: Hey, shouldn't there be another table wherein the albums themselves are sorted and not the contestants. Having the contestants ranked isn't much of a fair play since Kelly Clarkson has been in the business since her win 8 or 7 years ago.
We can see, if the albums are sorted, who was the best-selling AI alumni by album, who isn't Clarkson.
--Ja 1207 (talk) 06:09, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Pre-Idol albums are not included in the chart, so that eliminates most of them. CrazyC83 (talk) 19:56, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Table 

message: Colons have been added to, "First Album," "Second Album," "Third Album," "Fourth Album," and "Fifth Album"; Obviously, after a colon numerous things can be listed, but without the usage of the colon, english grammer is wrong indicated by numerous grammatical sites. 
Thanks.
74.184.100.154 (talk) 00:07, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colon Usage 

message: Why is his new album "George Huff" which I bought from Best buy not included, as well as Amanda Overmyers "Solidify"--RPaulley24 (talk) 16:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In Amanda's case, there are no numbers available. That is common with independent albums. CrazyC83 (talk) 19:55, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  George Huff/Amanda Overmyer 

message: He has sold 53,000 copies of "All IS Well" which is the album in between "On My Way" and "A Thousand Days"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by RPaulley24 (talk • contribs) 16:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clay Aiken 

message: Please justify why 4000+ characters of sourced material needs to be removed from this article. Unitanode 02:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This article lists all alumni who have sold anything, which is not notable and certainly not (with less than 25,000 copies) "top selling."  It is misleading, trivial and should be removed with some minimum threshold, at least at the 50,000 mark.  PAWiki (talk) 02:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have replied to this at your talk, but your assumption as to where a random dividing line should be drawn violates WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. The material in question is sourced, relevant, and -- as we're not a paper encyclopedia -- necessary for this article. Unitanode 02:37, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "Top-selling" needs to be defined.  Until then, items that are actually "poorly selling" should not and cannot be included without being fundamentally misleading.  PAWiki (talk) 02:39, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You will have to come up with rationale a bit more compelling than  that for justifying a 4000+ character removal of sourced content. Unitanode 02:43, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the burden falls on you to define why listings with a few thousand sales are considered "top selling."  No independenct source would consider them that, and most would call them flops.  Please answer and include sources.  PAWiki (talk) 02:51, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You have to stop this now. The article's status quo is to include the material you are unilaterally removing, so any burden of proof is on you, as the person wanting to change that. You have not done so, and haven't come close to doing so. Unitanode 02:53, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of sourced material 

message: This article includes many listings that are by no means "top selling."  I have attempted to remove the most outrageous ones: those that have sold only 50,000 or less, but have been repeatedly reverted by another editor here.  No established industry source would consider releases that sell less than 50,000 to be "top-selling" and their inclusion in this article discredits the entire article as ill-informed.  Some reasonable threshold should be established--50,000 or higher, I would propose--and this article trimmed accordingly.  Here is a reasonably assembled independent source that lists "top selling" as being seven million or greater:  .  The threshold at mainstream music sites and publications have similar thresholds, and some even higher than that.  No one with a straight face can say intelligently that a release with 20,000 sales is "top-selling."  Such sales are, in fact, bottom-selling, and their inclusion makes this entire article laughable. PAWiki (talk) 03:01, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You cannot list releases selling 20,000, 10,000 and fewer as being "Top Selling."  Please tell me I don't have to waste time proving this.  PAWiki (talk) 03:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This article has long dealt with all AI alumni who have measurable (and source-able) sales through the relevant counting services. If you have a problem with this, try to gather consensus that it should deal with something different. Your standards are subjective, and reflect your opinion. The current standards are very easy to work with, and not subjective at all. Why are you being so strident about this? Unitanode 03:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, my standards are not subjective.  I have not even offered any truly definitive ones.  On the contrary, I have asked for even one source that validates that sales under 25,000 are considered "top-selling" by anyone.  Please do that, or accept my reasonable edit revision.  PAWiki (talk) 03:16, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

text: I agree with Unitanode that all artists should be listed.  The greater utility of the article is to show that many AI finalists do not have successful careers afterward, and that success doesn't always correspond to how close to the top the finalists get.  Indeed, I think that William Hung should be restored to the listing, as he shows that a flukey novelty act sold more records than many AI finalists.  Wasted Time R (talk) 10:17, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Argument for trimming this article's listings

message: Though I find the arguments against "top-selling" basically without merit, I have boldly renamed this article, so as to remove that issue from the table as an argument against including sales of all alumni. Unitanode 13:03, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renamed 

message: Okay these drive-by anon edits changing Jordin Sparks's sales numbers are really starting to annoy me.  According to them Jordin is sold 3,000 albums for each of the past weeks.  Each edit is the only edit made by the anon editor with no new source to confirm these sales numbers and no edit summary.  If these edits continue, I feel there is going to be no recourse but to seek semi-protection for the article. Aspects (talk) 14:49, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jordin Sparks's sales numbers 

message: The work was recorded before Idol, so I consider it a pre-Idol recording. It may have been released after Idol, but the material was around before that. I don't see how it can be considered a post-Idol work. I'll wait for a consensus to stop the constant editing. 68.149.239.203 (talk) 18:19, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: While Take One is clearly a post-Idol release, it is also clearly a per-Idol recording, which is actually the standard set on the article, so it should the peak position and album sales should be removed from the article. Aspects (talk) 22:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Take One was released without his consent, if that affects anything. 76.1.49.0 (talk) 18:04, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Stance on Adam Lambert's Take One

message: I was checking on some numbers and noticed that some of the references no longer work, either they have been moved elsewhere or the url deleted.  For example I cannot find the webpage referenced for the sales number of Phil Stacey first album (referenced also for Eliot Yamin's My Kind Of Holiday).  Spent a long time going through Idol Chatter but can't find any sign of that page.  Can someone go over the references just to make sure that are all correct? Hzh (talk) 19:33, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The site had a revamp and some of the links did not convert properly. From what I can remember, slow connections will be directed toward the old link briefly, allowing you to take a screenshot to verify the numbers.198.161.51.6 (talk) 16:39, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Tidying up references?

message: It has been certified Gold . Can someone please add this to the first chart? 76.1.49.0 (talk) 18:07, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: First off that source does not say RIAA has certified the album Gold, it says it reached the threshold that an album can be certified Gold.  Secondly, the source is not a reliable source. Aspects (talk) 20:05, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

text: EPs are not listed here.  All EP should go into individual idol's discography page, for Adam it's here - Adam Lambert discography, linked in the albums sales page to the number in parentheses. Hzh (talk) 17:58, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adam Lambert's For Your Entertainment 

message: Mandisa's sales total should be 199,200 not 257,200. Putting Mandisa behind Kimberley Locke.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.103.93 (talk) 22:32, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mandisa total sales 

message: Some of the references are unreliable or non-existent.
Mario Vazquez's totals for example, are sourced wrong.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.103.93 (talk) 22:33, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistakes 

message: http://www.billboard.com/features/top-24-american-idols-of-all-time-1004088662.story#/features/top-24-american-idols-of-all-time-1004088662.story
As posted by Billboard may5th 2010.
 Make corrections please.
Kelly Clarkson All i Ever wanted Album Sales 50,000 more.
Jordin Sparks total 1,300,000 Battlefield rates need raised.
Fantasia total 2,300,000.
Blake Lewis 367,000.
Kris Allen 310,000.
Adam Lambert 685,000 Take one sold 49,000.
Kellie Pickler 1,300,000.
Ruben Studdard 2,600,000.
Also Adam should be certified Gold, while Kelly is Platinum
:This Billboard article includes sales from pre-Idol recordings and EPs, which are not included on this article. It also rounds up to the nearest 100,000 units for alumni with sale exceeding than 1 million units. None of the changes that you have suggested be made would be constructive because of the reasons above.68.149.239.203 (talk) 01:01, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corrections 

message: I see there is some conflict about Blake's number.  It seems that the 321K number comes from the Top 24 minus the EP number.  The problem I see with this method is that we can't be sure about the EP number from that reference given because more may have been sold since.  Are we sure not more of the EP have been sold? Perhaps we should use 315K (305K for ADD plus 10K I think the last known figure for Heartbreak on vinyl). Hzh (talk) 18:32, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blake's number 

message: I see that the album list excludes digital-only albums.  I'm not sure why they are excluded, is there a reasonable explanation?  This needs to be tackled because digital download is increasing, and it will only be a matter of time before you see a lot more digital-only albums.  Hzh (talk) 14:52, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No response or justification so far.  I propose that we remove the exlusion of digital-only album part.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it used to be that digital-only album can't chart on BB200, and if that was true then, it is certainly not true now since the "Hope For Haiti" charity album became the first digital-only album to debut at #1 on BB200.  I see no reason not to include digital-only album.Hzh (talk) 14:17, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Digital-only album? 

message: Paul Grein number of 10,583,000 was dated June 9.  The Idol Chatter numbers are dated April 21 and May 12, apart All I Ever Wanted which at June 16 was 870,000.  So at June 16 the total was 10,559,000 using Idol chatter number only, a difference of 24K.  Since All I Ever Wanted was selling at ~2K that week, we would need to remove that to bring it to the June 9 date, that leaves a difference ~26K.  To bring the 3 albums up to the June 9 date you need to add around 18 weeks of sales in total for the 3 albums, and that's only roughly just 1.4K a week for each album.  It's an entirely reasonable number, and there is absolutely no sign of any 30K+ pre-Idol album in there.   I would actually expect Kelly's number to be well over 10,600,000 by now.Hzh (talk) 02:27, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Kelly Clarkson numbers

message: One persistent problem we encountered here is the total number of units sold for each artist, because many figures include EPs and pre-Idol albums, which this table specifically excludes.  Now, again, others are putting in numbers which include EPs and pre-Idol albums to the artists total.  I think this is not something worth worrying about, and one solution might be to just leave the total number as it is, but list only the major album releases, and leave a note that the total includes EPs or pre-Idol albums.  This might also solve one of the problems we are having with this table - too many albums listed, and some of them aren't really of great interest, especially the compilation albums which aren't really new work.  Also that Clay Aiken double album shouldn't really be listed because it is just a re-release of 2 old albums, it is certainly not a new album.  If we remove those (or put those in the footnote as a brief list, or just put them down as simply "others" that include pre-Idol album, EPs, compilation, double albums, etc.), that will at least relieve the issue of having too many columns, and then just include their sales figure in the total. Hzh (talk) 22:31, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is what I think we can do - remove the compilation albums and re-releases (so only post-Idol main albums will be listed), then give 2 numbers for the totals - one for the one listed in the chart, and another one in parentheses for the total including all album such as EPs, pre-Idol releases, compilations.  Then I think we don't have to worry about having different totals from other sources.  I'll do this is a few days time if no one objects, or if anyone else has better suggestions. Hzh (talk) 13:40, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is now done.  It should be good for another 5 years or longer until such time as when we get to 8th or 9th albums when the table would again start to look seriously bad, then perhaps another solution would need to be found. Hzh (talk) 14:39, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  EPs, pre-Idol releases, and compilations albums 

message: Taylor Hick's debut album sales numbers were recently updated to 809K but this is for world-wide sales according to the album's wiki. The last sales figure for Taylor Hicks' first album was from the week ending July 12, 2008 and total sales were 704,000 (from Idol Chatter) and the album was only selling a hundred or less a week at that point, so it is unlikely it sold another hundred thousand in 2 years. Please correct this as it makes the other rankings inaccurate.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.98.245 (talk) 03:17, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it is not the world wide sales figure - if you check the reference in the album page, world wide the album sold more than that (note however that world wide sales figure is just an estimate from another website - worldwidealbums.net and is not accurate).  The 809K figure came from the Lyndsey Parker's article and she has access to Soundscan numbers.  However, it is very possible that she made a mistake with the number, so if you think the number is inaccurate (and there are good reasons to think it is), then by all means change it.  Anyone can edit wiki pages. Take the plundge and participate.Hzh (talk) 19:50, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taylor Hick's Recent Updated Numbers for Debut Album are Incorrect 

message: I'm wondering what is the opinion about Adam Lambert's numbers posted here.  They are provided by the mod at Adam's official website set up by Sony Music/RCA, and therefore presumably someone who is affiliated with RCA who has access to official Soundscan data.  Numbers have also been supplied by the mod at David Cook official website, I would assume they may turn up at other official fan sites as well.   I personally have no problem with the mod as a source, and I'm fairly certain the numbers are legitimate, but I'm not sure how to treat these numbers because you would need to frequent all those official websites to know which source is trustworthy, and I don't.  The Adam and David Cook ones would be OK I think, but I have no idea about any other official websites.  I would like to hear other people's opinions on that.Hzh (talk) 07:02, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to add - RCA Ed is the mod at Adam Lambert's, David Cook's and Daughtry's official website.Hzh (talk) 09:09, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I go to AdamOfficial a fair bit to check for numbers and I'd say RCAEd is a reliable source. His numbers are always the same (or indeed more accurate as he reports to units sold not 000's of units) as other sources like Idol Chatter etc. when we have had the luxury of both.EvilVeg (talk) 11:11, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adam's numbers 

message: I'm now reconsidering putting compilation albums back into the table, there are very few of these, so it may not make much difference.  Would appreciate any opinion on this. Hzh (talk) 17:06, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compilation albums 

message: As anyone who follows the album sales figures issued will know they have changed the way sales are calculated - there are now two sets of official numbers, one of them is the traditional album sales, the other is the album units sold, which is actually a combination of actual albums sold, plus streams and track equivalent albums (TEA).  Billboard currently reports both sets of numbers, but makes the distinction between them as albums and units sold.  The issue now is therefore whether we should keep the old set of numbers, or start using the new ones.  Personally I think we should keep the numbers as traditional album sold because that is how all the numbers on the page are given, if we start changing only for some of them, then it will introduce errors and inconsistency.  
I foresee a time when Billboard will only report the new album sales formulation, and we will need to change, but until then, I think it would be better to keep thing as it is.  An alternative will to be use both sets of numbers (give one in parentheses say), but that may be too cumbersome. Hzh (talk) 00:59, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The purpose of the page is to show which Idols have had commercial success and for how long they maintained that success. TEA is part of the way of measuring success so it should be included in the one figure given. Comparisons over time are dubious anyway - the fact that Carrie Underwood's sales look like a downward slide over time is more due to industry changes than any declining popularity on her part. 2600:1001:B103:4847:294F:9D65:7CCD:8A4C (talk) 21:25, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm starting the reorganization of the page sales figures, although I'm not using the new figures that include TEA and streams as yet, since Billboard continues to publish figures using the sales only format (see the latest figures given by Billboard).  I think eventually that may have to change, but we are not at that stage yet. Hzh (talk) 12:34, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Album sales figure 

message: The figure for Kelly Clarkson's most recent album is almost a year old and needs an update. It would have sold some during her tour last year and then there was a recent large sales spike due to her emotional performance of title track on Idol. 2600:1001:B103:4847:294F:9D65:7CCD:8A4C (talk) 21:19, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't make a special case for anyone.  All the figures need updating, please don't try to make your favorite a special case.  Any further attempt to do that would be considered disruptive editing.  Hzh (talk) 14:34, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarkson update needed 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: What is the rationale behind dividing this list into those with RIAA certifications and those without?  The list is really showing and counting sales figures, for which it doesn't matter if the artist ever had an RIAA certification or not.  In other words, this list is not like List of best-selling albums in the United States, which for the most part really is based on RIAA certification numbers.
In particular, the current division scheme unfairly treats Mandisa.  People who listen to contemporary Christian radio tell me that Mandisa gets played a lot on those stations, and this is reflected in her continuing strength in sales over multiple albums.  If you look at the combined sales figures for her fourth and fifth albums, you will see that they are better than those of anyone's combined fourth and fifth albums in the top section other than Carrie Underwood and Kelly Clarkson.  That's an indication of a real career, whereas many of the people in the top section had one big seller followed by a steep drop-off.
As a suggestion, you could make the cutoff between sections to be 500,000 in sales, which is the rough equivalent of having had one gold record.  That will still make the article manageable, but will promote Mandisa to the appropriate spot in the top section and give her career more of the prominence it has merited.   Wasted Time R (talk) 23:52, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing no objections, I have gone ahead and made the change I suggested.  Wasted Time R (talk) 11:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is rationale for RIAA divide between sections? 

message: Will the IP editor stop using equivalent album units for sales figures? These are sales figures + streams + singles, and are therefore not true sales figures. This article is about sales. Also you cannot have a single singer using the equivalent album units while while the others are using pure sales figures. It distorts everything. Hzh (talk) 10:57, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kelly Clarkson's sales numbers