Talk:Polish culture during World War II

message: TV series and rock belong rather to pop-culture. I'm not a native speaker - works of art mean rather pictures and sculptures, don't they? 
I have replaced one instance of the word artists by writers, but I have realised that it was a general problem. Xx236 (talk) 08:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Work of art is anything. I started the list there with few positions; of course more are needed. While writers were the most prominent, there were other artists. Song composers, for example; theater artists, scene performers, and so on.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  18:34, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

text: At least some books were published, I don't know the rules. certainly books for children. Johanna Spyri is a German-language writer, very popular in Germany. Xx236 (talk) 13:28, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Some of the latter positions may have been published underground. As for the others, I guess there may have been some exceptions, certainly more can written about them.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  18:34, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  works of art ? 

message: Movies were working and Poles visiting them, even if forbidden by the underground state. BTW - the article is Movie theater, not cinema.Xx236 (talk) 12:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cinemas 

message: What is the connection between Queen Bona's 16th-century Royal Casket and Izabela Czartoryska's Royal Casket of 1800, to which it is now linked in the caption?  Nihil novi (talk) 07:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, this seems to be an error. The 19th century item should be mentioned only, as it is an example of a looted item that is notable enough to have an article on Wikipedia.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Both caskets were destroyed by the Germans in World War II, but only Queen Bona's is mentioned in this article — while being unaccountably linked to Izabela Czartoryska's Royal Casket, which is the one that has its own article.  Nihil novi (talk) 22:14, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah. Could you correct it, as you seem to have more knowledge of this issue than I? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  04:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you're only using a photo of Queen Bona's Royal Casket, with no reference to it in the article's text, and since you don't mention Izabela Czartoryska's Royal Casket in the text either, simplest thing would be to simply de-link "Royal Casket" in the caption.  Nihil novi (talk) 08:30, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not link them both, since we discussed them here? Also, perhaps we should move the Czartoryska's casket, and create a disambig if more Royal Caskets are notable? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:43, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure. Is there an article on "Queen Bona's Royal Casket"? Nihil novi (talk) 03:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I know of. Is it notable for us to create it? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  04:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you spoke of "linking them both," I understood that either there was a "Queen Bona's Royal Casket" to link to, or that you thought there should be.  As to notability... Wikipedia is not paper...  Nihil novi (talk) 05:20, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Royal Caskets

message: The article goes so far as to say that the Soviet zone was little better than the German occupation - yet also quotes reviews describing commitment to Polish culture as stronger than ever before after 1945, and limits this period of discussion to the period between wars.  Was the treatment of Poles by Russians during the war much harsher than the Warsaw Bloc status afterward, and if so, how and why? Wnt (talk) 18:55, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Long story short, after Barbarossa desperate Soviets realized they need every straw (read: Poles) to help them stop and defeat the Germans, and later, even with the relative indifference from Western Allies they could not justify such open hostility to Polish culture (plus they needed to promise that Poland would be a state, not a Soviet republic, and a state had to had a semblance of sovereignty and uniqueness); thus a new policy - "eternal communist Slavic brotherhood" - was chosen. PS. You may want to ask User:Molobo, I believe he knows many relevant Polish publications on the related subjects.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  20:42, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

text: The difference in treatment was based on difference in policy. Territory occupied by Russians in 1939 was populated mostly by Ukrainians and it was incorporated into Ukrainian SSR. Its Polish minority btw was killed off by Ukrainians during the war, see Massacres of Poles in Volhynia. Well, so before German invasion the Soviet authorities persecuted Poles and their culture both for "class" reasons (because landowners, capitalists and priests are evil bourgeoisie) and for national reasons to bring about Ukrainization. Meanwhile, Poland as established after the war was recognized by Soviets as the country of the Poles, hence they had nothing against the local culture there.  76.24.104.52 (talk) 23:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion about Russian role 

message: I'm not sure if a reader understands, that the majority of names are non-Jewish, that the majority of Jews died 1942-1943. 
Isn't word gentiles equal or even more precise than Christian here? Xx236 (talk) 09:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish writers and artists 

message: According to Soviet documents less than 500 000. Many of them to Kasakhstan or Arkhangelsk region, which wasn't Siberia.Xx236 (talk) 09:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Over a million Polish citizens were deported to Siberia 

message: Germans allowed to publish uncomplicated texts and to perform in cabarets. Both activities were sometimes illegal from the Polish point of view and punished during or after the war. Xx236 (talk) 09:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germans allowed culture 

message: The image :Image:Rozstrzelanie V - execution V - Wróblewski.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Rozstrzelanie V - execution V - Wróblewski.jpg

message: Polish wiki has unreferenced statistic that a year after the invasion, enrollment in Polish schools dropped to about 30% of the pre-war. I am trying to track down the source of this statistic, so far unsuccessfully.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  23:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Enrollment in Polish schools

message: Kazimierz Braun, in his history of Polish theatre points out that the AK sometimes authorised actors to perform if it was of use to morale or AK operations. Braun likewise points out that many of the theatre shows allowed by the Nazis bordered on pornographic caberet and, ironically, were often visited by AK soldiers themselves. (79.190.69.142 (talk) 16:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to expand the article, but please follow the WP:CITE policy and cite the reference (Braun) properly. Please consider registering before editing the article. Thank you, --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:08, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Actors and audiences

message: Twice in one short paragraph. BTW - the "new" languages were Soviet.Xx236 (talk) 07:44, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Which paragraph? Please, be more clear, and fix errors instead of making cryptic comments on talk. We have asked this of you many, many times. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replacing of Polish language 

message: The destruction of Jewish culture in Poland should be described, eg. of synagogues (only one s. in Łódź mentioned), Toras. Destruction of Poland's Jewish community is mentioned only in postwar paragraph. The artists were generally isolated from their non-Jewish public and/or coautors and finally murdered. People like Janusz Korczak or Bruno Schulz were important for big part of educated public in Poalnd. "The Messiah" by Schulz was probably one of very important Polish language books.Xx236 (talk) 11:56, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Valid points, but as I've explained here 1) those issues were not covered by any sources I've read and 2) this article is about the Polish culture, not the Jewish culture. So, while death of Polish language artists of Jewish ethnicity is relevant to this article (I've added Korczak and Shultz to the sentence listing murdered writers), destruction of Jewish synagogues is less so (as they were important to the Jewish culture, not Polish - but I've added a ref sentence on the destruction of synagogues as well). If you have reliable sources, please expand the article with them. I would love to see a sentence or even paragraph summarizing the destruction of the Polish-Jewish culture, but none of my sources had any useful material. Further, do note that this article links to Holocaust in Poland, so interested editors can find out more info about destruction of Jewish culture in Poland in WWII there. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:21, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem how much the synagogues were part of Polish culture is very complicated. From the point of view of the Second Republic they were. Xx236 (talk) 10:35, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a valid argument; which is why I added the note to the article. In the future, don't hesitate to edit the article, adding referenced information. Thanks, --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  16:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

text: It certainly is a complicated problem. Depends on whether the adjective "Polish" is being used as pertaining to ethnic Poles or, in a more general sense, to the citizens of Poland.  In this last case other minorities, besides Jews, which existed in Poland should be mentioned: Ukranians, Belorussians, Lithuanians, Roma, etc. I guess this is not the purpose of this article. Tsf (talk) 01:08, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Destruction of Jewish culture in Poland 

message: I have removed the following unreferenced addition, with no prejudice to it being readded once its properly referenced.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wprost quotes Józef Grabski http://www.wprost.pl/ar/71316/Kod-Czartoryskich/?I=1152, it would be better to check the original paper by Grabski.Xx236 (talk) 10:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting article; thank you for the link. However I couldn't find the claim that this may be the most expensive painting robbed by the Germans? Also, I couldn't find a reference to any paper by Grabski.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  16:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Thanks, I've added that info to the article now.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  19:04, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Portrait of [[Raphael]]

message: *The last paragraph of Censorship, control and propaganda says "Overall, the purpose and goals of Nazi propaganda in occupied Poland can be divided into several phases", yet only two are listed. "Several" implies more; were there only the two? --Malleus Fatuorum 11:52, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:29, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

text: *I think you are right, fixed.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  05:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questions 

message: As geocities is closing down, this link should be replaced. It's not in the wayback machine. Related material is at   and at  LeadSongDog come howl 18:13, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Those are not the same articles (but the same author). It's an online website for an academic conference with academic conference. The link may be removed, but the work is still valid.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  21:23, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redzik ref 

message: I was in no way aware this article existed. It already discusses the role of the Catholic Church to some extent but could say more. I have written some stuff in Reorganization of occupied dioceses during World War II, and there is also useful information in most of the biographies linked in the Poland section therein. I leave it to the authors of this article to decide if any of that is applicable. Savidan 04:28, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to link and/or expand both articles; I was unaware of the reorganization article myself. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  18:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible material to add 

message: The dates give the impression that this article is British English, but it uses American English versions of 'theater'.  Which language is it written in? Parrot of Doom (talk) 08:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The language of a non-native speaker (me), copyedited by several native speakers from different English-speaking places worldwide. Welcome to Wikipedia :D --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  18:26, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  language 

message: Like many others I came across this article from the front page of Wikipedia.  I am very disturbed that such an article exists putting forward opinions as if facts.
There is a movement at present seeking to diminish the unique horrors of Nazism by equating 'Soviet' with 'Nazi' as frequently as possible.  The placing of this article as Featured Article is disturbing (how do we make a comment on that decision?).
The following comment was placed earlier today (2009-09-01) and was removed (censored) by another user.  Please note - a comment on the 'discussion' page not an edit to the article.  Although I do not agree with the strange argument (catholo-fascism???) it deserves to be seen on the discussion page.
This article is disgusting. Its a pity to see Polish religious fascism on the rise again and exploiting the suffering of the Polish people for its own dark purposes. All the harder it is to believe that the article made it to being featured in this current, factually wrong and biased form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.202.144.34 (talk) 11:16, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: BANNED SOCK BAITING ALERT:  ---->  --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  19:26, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

text: The movies you mention are not Polish, but about Poland. This is why they are not mentioned - they are not part of the Polish culture. PS. That's also why I removed Maus. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  18:29, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Yes. Brutannica (talk) 18:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Indeed. What is apparent is that in the West 1) the horrors of Nazism are simply better known that the horrors of Stalinism, and 2) being a Stalinist (Soviet, communist) apologetic is seen as much less controversial than being a Nazi one. So while there is plenty of research on the horrors of Stalinism, as shown and referenced in the article, we will inevitably hear shocked gasps from people who either don't know about the horrors of Stalinism and will be shocked how anybody can dare to equate Nazism with anything else, or from those who are die-hard communists/Stalinists/Soviets and will try to rewrite history to protect their favorite utopia. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  18:33, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article strongly biased to one point of view 

message: "During World War II, Polish culture was suppressed by the occupying powers of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, both of whom were hostile to Poland's people and culture."
I never heard that Marxism-leninism is per se hostile to any people or ethnicity. Mitch1981 (talk) 19:46, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a difference between theory and practice. You may also want to read the Black Book of Communism. That said, Soviet Union with its M-L ideology was less interested in destroying ethnic groups than in destroying certain classes of people (kulaks, etc.), compared to Nazi Germany. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  21:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Marx (or Engels) was hostile toward Bulgarians, sometimes also Anti-Semitic. His (their) attitude toward Poles was changing. If Soviet Communism was Marxist? Rather not, Marx wrote about developed countries and Russia wasn't one.Xx236 (talk) 08:45, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet Union hostile to Poles ? 

message: Is this a quote from Hitler or Stalin or from Ferguson? It is unclear from the article.--Dojarca (talk) 13:37, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitler and Stalin shared the goal of obliterating Poland's political and cultural life, so that Poland would "cease to exist not merely as a place, but also as an idea" 

message: The major problems on this site is the adherences to the sites protocols, that ultimately result in throttling the whole process.
Firstly, is this even a good article? Did experts in the subject edit this article? Did anyone have any understanding of the complexity of this subject?
The answer to all these questions, is I must admit, after reading this article is NO NO and NO.
By using non-experts to cobble this article together, it just becomes a literary Emmental (cheese) with glaring holes throughout every section. But hey, slaps on the back all round as the article has its precious citations. 
The article primarily just talks about loss, the Poles were denied this, the Poles could no longer do that (but they did resist this and they resist that)....the article should be:
 Types of Polish Culture repressed by the Nazis (1939-1945)
Because this article lacks a serious encyclopedic examination concerning the methodology of the Nazis.
For instance, there is no mention of these Nazi agencies:
#RuSHA
#VOMI
#The SS Office of RKFDV which was responsible for mandating policy for the Nazi administrations in Eastern Europe. 
They all played a key part in the repression of Polish Culture, RuSHA took children away from their parents for Aryanization, VOMI settled Germans in occupied areas, and the RKFDV over saw it all.
There is a brief  mention of  Generalplan Ost, but it is without context. The article just says the policies that crushed Polish culture were part of the plan. And?
Plain and simple, this article lacks the WHY! Without an authoritative examination of the agencies (their goals etc) that carried out the repression of  Polish education, culture and intellectuals you get an article like this.
An article that explain how bad times were for Poland under the Nazis (and its resistance) but without the substantiation of the background, reasons and ultimate purpose of why repression was implemented by Nazis.
It's History Lite - and certainly NOT encyclopedic.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.127.70 (talk) 13:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's easy to criticize. Care to point to a better treatment of the subject in existence? Or care to try to write a better one? And for the record, encyclopedias ARE history lite, history proper should be published in books and journals (and none has dealt with this subject as far as I know, in English anyway). I'll see about incorporating the agencies you mention in the article; interestingly, they were not mentioned in any of my sources (feel free to prove me wrong or suggest better sources - nobody has done so despite me having explicitly asked for any sources I missed few months back). As for experts reviewing this article - be my guest and try to convince more academics that they should care about Wikipedia :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:13, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said.  Nihil novi (talk) 02:58, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is a classic example of how Wikipedia fails! 

message: Who is Jarosław Szarek? Why his opinion is so important?--Dojarca (talk) 13:48, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: So important? His article is cited ~5 times; he is a Polish writer and historian (). Bio. He is probably notable and I'll stub him shortly. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:08, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This source is now a dead link, and so cannot be independently verified. If the credibility of the reference is no longer at issue please remove the "Verify credibility" tag. If the credibility of the reference is still an issue, then I suggest the reference and the two-word clause in dispute be removed. If you keep the source, you may wish to add a wikilink to Szarek's article. DrKiernan (talk) 19:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jarosław Szarek 

message: The subject is mentioned many times. It wasn't a part of "Polish culture", at least not so important. It should be mentioned once.Xx236 (talk) 08:40, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "N prints"? Would you be referring to Action N? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  19:49, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes.Xx236 (talk) 07:39, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You are welcome to move / add / remove images if you think this needs to be done. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean all informations about Action N, repeated several times in the article. Once would be enough.Xx236 (talk) 09:28, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  N prints - many times 

message: I have doubts about the consistency of this passage:
"(...) The press was reduced from over 2,000 publications to a few dozen, all censored by the Germans.[53][57] All pre-war newspapers were closed, and the few that were published during the occupation were new creations under the total control of the Germans. (...)" (from the Censorship and propaganda part)
- Where all the newspapers closed or the press was reduced to a few titles? I'm not sure, but it seems that those two sentences together don't make sens. I assume that those few dozens which were still publishing were recreated under the control of Germans - am I right? Please explain that to me, as I'm translating the article now, but I'm not a historian and I don't want to make any mistakes. Thank you! Agnes86 (talk) 17:10, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Press and newspapers

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thread_title:  External links modified