Talk:Murder of Margaret Ann Pahl

message: I followed this case daily while it was being argued and I have to say that the Toledo area was very split on the issue of his alleged guilt.  The case bears marked similarities to the West Memphis 3 case in terms of it's controversial nature and all the bizarre satanic panic elements included in the trial.  One of the main reporters for the Toledo Blade was whipping that panic into a frenzy in hopes of a book deal which he has since secured.  His history of antipathy towards the Roman Catholic Church in that area was well known and the trial got tied up in the Church abuse scandal.  I don't know if the man did it or not but this article in it's original form practically had him saying a black mass over her body.  A little balance is needed here and it would help if some editors neutral to the case would help clean it up and do some research with me to find material from the media other that written by the guy with the book deal.  Please help me with this if you can.  NPOV is important in biographies of living persons.  if somebody wants to do a separate article on the crime, then they can drag out all the crazy satanic accusations they want so long as they are sourced.LiPollis (talk) 19:07, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The above comment seems a lot more NPOV than the article was in mid-August 2012 before I made some changes. It also confuses the issue of guilt (not "alleged guilt", a jury had found him guilty when the above comment was made, and this was confirmed later on appeal) and suggestions of !"satanic panic" issues. "Balance" is a weasel word; we don't need equal amounts of text suggesting that a man convicted of murder in a reasonable trial was or was not guilty. If the journalist was biased maybe expressions of opinion and selection of material may have happened; but reporting "the prosecutor said such-and-such", without this being denied or refuted, is pretty reliable sourcing. As said above, any satanic stuff and so on needs sourcing, not opinions. If "the Toledo area was very split on the issue of his alleged guilt", it does not imply innocence - a fair trial may do this. The split, if sourced, may be relevant. I have made some changes to the article, sourcing some things and deleting some unsourced statements (which may though be true). I don't have any knowledge of the case, my changes reflect the sources. Any opinion I may have on the guilt of the defendant is based on the facts I have found, I have no axe to grind. The book mentioned above has indeed been written and published, and I have mentioned it in the article. Any sourced suggestions of bias and sourced criticism of its accuracy would also be relevant. Pol098 (talk) 04:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  I want to thank Pol098 for taking time to work on this article.  My comments above reflected the original article, to which changes have been made.   I have no desire to weight to article in favor of factual innocence or factual guilt which is different in Law from Conviction or Aquittal.  I merely would like the article to more accurately reflect the community's reaction to the crime, the trial and the conviction. Pol098's help has toned down the article so that it is more inline with an enyclopedic entry and for that, I am in his/her debt.LiPollis (talk) 10:55, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: This artilce could use some balance

message: This article is entirely about the murder of Margaret Ann Pahl, and not about Gerald Robinson in any other aspect. This seems appropriate as it can be said he is not otherwise notable. Perhaps, rather than an additional article on the murder as suggested by Lisapollison above, this article should be retitled "murder of Margaret Ann Pahl", with simple changes to wording of the intro, and "Gerald Robinson (priest)" made into a simple redirect to the article? Pol098 (talk) 03:41, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Pol098 (talk) 17:11, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Article subject and title

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