Talk:Christianity/Archive 14

message: What do we need to do at this point to get the warning removed?  KHM03 20:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: I have archived a lot from this talk page. I put it all into Archive 19. I have also created a link at the top of this page to Archive 20, which has not been created. Whoever archives next time can just click on that link to start that archive.
I think we should try to start new threads more frequently. The archive I have just created has 156 kilobytes, and has only six threads. Even if something is relevant to a particular thread, I think it would be better to have a new thread called "Changes part 2", or "Changes revisited". Otherwise, it's very difficult to find the right part of the page. I hope I haven't archived anything that was active. Discussion can, of course, continue on this page, perhaps even by saying something like, "As mentioned in Talk:Christianity/Archive_19#Beowulf".  AnnH (talk) 11:58, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archiving

message: This may be nitpicking but I have changed the first appearance (in the history section) to Judaism to "the Jewish religion", as Judaism is more strictly the religion as defined by Rabbis and Talmud which was still in flux during Jesus' time. Str1977 22:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine, but shouldn't we have a link somewhere on the article to Judaism?  KHM03 23:44, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a link right next to it (Rabbinical Judaism, when we are talking about the "parting of ways". And possibly elsewehere in the article as well. Str1977 00:03, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Judaism has been the main Jewish religion since Moses, although it has changed somewhat. But Jewish religions include Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Egalitarianism, Atheism, Baal Worship, Astorah God-Wife, Noble Savage Belief,   Ethical Relativism, Secular Humanism, Marxism-Liberalism, Kabbalah. So is the Jewish religion precise enough? rossnixon 00:33, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I really don't care one way or the other how we word it; I defer to community consensus.  KHM03 01:32, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jewish religion

message: Why doesn't this article have a criticisms section? Many of the other religion-focused articles I've seen have such a section detailing the common complainst and/or criticisms of the particular religion. Christianity is certainly not exempt from such criticisms and yet there is no such section. Is this simply another symptom of the prevelant NPOV editing throughout this article? - Hayter 15:11, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't aware of that article, thank you for mentioning it, if neglecting to provide a link. There should still be a small section regarding it here though, as is done with other such situations, indeed it is done on this very article. And I thought about mentioning the Persecution section earlier. Christianity being outlawed by the Romans is not the same as modern scientists saying it's unlikely there was a Garden of Eden. One, I think most would agree is clearly persecution, the latter is a base for criticism. Such criticism as a subject cannot be covered under a heading of persecution without POV editing. - Hayter 17:14, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

text: The link is there, under see also. DJ Clayworth 18:12, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticisms

message: I'm not sure how useful a summary it is to say, "restoring more accurate and NPOV version," (although who would not be grateful to the editor who did that?) It does have the advantage of universality; anyone can use it anytime to describe any edit. But that same strength is its weakness. So many people can and do use it to describe their edits that it tells me nothing; it does not in fact usefully summarize the edit. Tom Harrison Talk 19:00, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In general, it typically means the editor is striking what they think is a blow for truth and justice in the midst of an edit war. I agree it's generally unhelpful. Wesley 03:05, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit summaries 

message: It's not clear to me how your repeatedly reverting the article is going to lead to synthesis and compromise. Three reverts in twenty minutes seems inappropriate. The three-revert rule is not 'everyone gets three reverts a day.' Tom Harrison Talk 22:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree with Gio's version. I think he has made his case and so others who object should state their arguments here instead of reverting. He has signifiant support among many editors who want to see these elements included so rv alone will only result in rv back within a few mintues. MikaM 23:38, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Clearly, Gio's version is contested by several users.  Let's talk about it here; we've made progress in the past.  Make your case here for the changes before just adding them in...consensus can work!  KHM03 00:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I rolled back Giovanni33's latest "revert" not so much because it re-introduced his version of some paragraphs, but because it also carelessly re-introduced some typos in other sections (and possibly in the sectin he meant), and deleted a subsection. It seemed as if he re-pasted the entire article from a version that he liked; even if his version of the main paragraphs he changed is better, it had too many obviously unintended side effects. Wesley 03:03, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverts

message: I know I have done this before on another issue on another page, but so be it. I move the following section over from the article, as it is argumentive and POV and inaccurate and Original Research:
:There are two leading beliefs in the world first is Christianity, and then there is, of course, the uprising belief of evolution and the big bang and all other sorts of great ways to explain the creation of the universe without having to elude to someone greater than humankind. There is, however, one very unexplainable factor that the many groups of these secular scientific groups cannot just simply push to the side, dismissing it as a childhood fairy tale. That factor is miracles. "Should it surprise a true believer in God that God is working miracles today? According to the Bible, "Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever" (Hebrews 13:8). If Jesus was ever a miracle worker, He is today. Did He ever tell you He had stopped doing miracles? To deny miracles is to mock prayer today, since even the slightest true answer to prayer involves a measure of divine intervention. God can do whatever He wants at any time. He has not gone on an extended vacation. While there is order in the Universe, there is also plenty of scope for the direct involvement of God's Spirit. 
:Many people are merely religious. They have never contacted or known the living God. They are satisfied with a religion which gives them rules to obey, or ethical principles to follow. The religion tells them that if they are faithful to keep the rules then they are right. But no one has ever kept the rules of any religion 100% of the time. So religious people hope their good deeds outweigh the bad. But they don't know if they do in their case. Deep within they suspect that something is seriously wrong. And it is. Because only when you trust the sacrifice and work of Jesus Christ can you be on the right track. "He who has the Son of God has life" (1 John 5:12). 
:Miracles confirm the true message of Jesus Christ (Mark 16:15-20). If no one is getting changed in your church or religious group, you are involved in dead religion. You need to meet the Lord. The changes God produces are not confined to inward, spiritual changes. They also include physical changes. Miraculous healings are occurring more and more these days, especially in places where many people pray as the Bible teaches us to pray. The Bible teaches there is such a thing as the gift of miracles. Read 1 Corinthians 12:8-10.  
:What follows are some links on this subject. I simply do not have time right now to research and catalogue all that God is doing or has done to confirm the message of Jesus with signs and wonders following. I have witnessed many things myself, of course, but there are others who have witnessed far more than me. All glory and praise to God for the things He has done. 
: - a book full of interesting stories including many miracles by a personal friend of ours who we fellowship with in Sydney. 
:Miracle Stories (link unavailable, sorry) - a web site devoted to testimonies on the subject. 
:As time goes on you will find on this site more and more material to document and report the miracles I can find out about. I'm planning to put some videos onto the internet of actual miracles where I've been involved." 
Str1977 23:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Miracles section