Talk:Irish bull terrier

message: , thanks for trying to improve this article.  My primary concern is that the only 2 sources cited for the Irish Bull Terrier include a self-published book by an unknown author and The Telegraph article that doesn't recognize the breed.  What we're dealing with is a hybrid dog based on anecdotal information and like so many other labels, apparently became somewhat ubiquitous because of the misinformation in this WP article which was created in 2005, thus resulting in the name spreading via word of mouth.  Do you have availability to the book "The Story of the Real Bulldog" which is the primary cited source used in this article to verify if it even mentions Irish Bull Terriers or even Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers?  See inside the book here.  There is no mention of the Irish Bull Terrier that I can find.Atsme✍🏻📧 15:45, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank  for noticing. My main concern is regarding the Staffordshire Bull Terrier article. You may have seen that I removed the banner there yesterday and intend having another go at editing here later. I shall try and find the book in my local library. Cheers! ... Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard 10:33, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I own the book and placed the citations in the article, they are all in the book. I reverted the changes back to the citations.  Please don't delete them again, they add strength to the article. IQ125 (talk) 13:17, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

text: Thank . On reflection, I now consider my initial reaction, of not merging, to be wrong.This morning, I have shown my support for the proposed merge at Talk:Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Let us hope we can resolve the issue among ourselves. Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard 12:03, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This has not been the easiest article to find reliable sources for verification but it is an excellent example of how good collaboration and research can resolve issues plaguing even the most problematic of articles. It has been a pleasure to collaborate with you, . I hope we cross paths again. Atsme✍🏻📧 13:39, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank  for your kind words, and I am certain that we shall bump into each other again before too longin the nicest possible way.I know that you started the section, but may I suggest that you could formally add your support in the main body below? ... Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard 15:18, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  RS lacking 

message: Please see Talk:Staffordshire Bull Terrier#Merger discussion for a proposal to merge the dubious Irish bull terrier into that broader article.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  14:42, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposed 

message: This article should be capitalized as Irish Bull Terrier, the same as Staffordshire Bull Terrier and all the other Terrier breeds, see :Category:Terriers, please change it back. IQ125 (talk) 15:27, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Mac - the source IQ125 is edit warring over appears to be a limited print self-published book.  See Northbrook Publishing - "Specializing in Custom Publications, Digital Marketing, and Collateral/Ads for industries since 1996."  The author is an unknown.  Also see this archived link.  I removed the source entirely.  IQ125, if you continue the edit warring and disruption, it will not end well for you. Atsme✍🏻📧 20:49, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Atsme, the only one edit warring here is you!  And it may not end up well for you, so stop it now and stop vandalizing the article. IQ125 (talk) 11:57, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: , There is no call for your unpleasant undertones immediately above.You will see that I have been copy-editing this dubious article too and completely support  with the proposed merger and the subsequent revisions. Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard 14:56, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: IQ125 appears unclear on what WP:EDITWAR means and should read that page. Reverting destructively again and again to try to get what you want when multiple other editors are undoing you reverts is definitely editwarring and will get you blocked, .  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:30, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

text: No, it shouldn't be capitalized, per MOS:LIFE, since it's not a breed.  Hell, MOS:LIFE doesn't even sanction capitalizing standardized breeds (yet?), though it's a  standard (i.e., there appears to be consensus for it that isn't yet recorded in the guideline, though I intend to fix that at some point; it's not urgent because zero editors are going around trying to lower-case real breeds). Capitalizing isn't any kind of standard practice for random groups or alleged groups of mongrels, ferals, landraces, breed groups, dog types, crossbreeds, hybrids, species, subspecies, or any other kind of grouping of canids or other animals (or plants).  More to the point, we had huge-ass RfCs about this kind of thing, many of them over many years, and the consistent community consensus was to not over-capitalize these things, with breeds left out of that decision as a then-uneasy truce.  Only standardized breeds and their plant equivalent, cultivars, get the caps treatment here.  We really don't care that some dog people like to capitalize every dog-related thing there is.  Hell, I think everyone in this discussion is dog people, and they don't go around doing it (at least not on Wikipedia).  We all know what the average quality of the writing in Dog Fancy magazine is.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:30, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Irish Bull Terrier v. Irish bull terrier

message: The IBT or ISBT was a progenitor to the ABPT and is not a fictitious and fake breed.  Without the IBT there would be no ABPT!! Many of you that are editing the article have zero knowledge about the IBT and should immediately stop entering bogus information that you know nothing about.  IQ125 (talk) 12:06, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Assertions like this are unhelpful noise without reliable sources to back them up.  Please also see WP:NOT#FORUM, WP:NOT#BATTLEGROUND, and WP:NOT#SOAPBOX.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:32, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Is ths unhelpful noise aswell https://www.dogbreedinfo.com/irishstaffordshirebullterrier.htm  Dr Nobody (talk) 23:04, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that is unhelpful noise, and is certainly not a reliable source. It is a self-published blog written by Sharon Maguire. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 23:11, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Are two AMAZON books  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Staffordshire-Terriers-English-Canine-Library/dp/185736242X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=  and https://www.amazon.com/Irish-Staffordshire-Bull-Terrier-Guide/dp/1526907267 other unreliable sources? Dr Nobody (talk) 11:02, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they are. Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard 11:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

text: , because reliable sources have written about the myths and the people who believe they aren't myths. zchrykng (talk) 16:52, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: IBT/ISBT relationship to ABPT