Talk:Nikolayevsk-on-Amur

message: ===Medieval and early-modern history===
====Ming dynasty era: Telin====
In 1409, the Ming government set up a post called Nurkal (Nu'ergan) Command Post 努尔干都司 (NCP) at Telin 特林 (now Nikolayevsk-na-Amur in the Russian Far East) in the vicinity of Heilong River. The three parts of the Jurchen tribe came under the administration of the NCP. Leaders of the Haixi and Jianzhou tribes had accepted the Ming government's enfeoffments.
From 1411 to 1433, the Ming eunuch Yishiha 亦失哈 (a man of Jurchen origin) led ten large missions to win over the allegiance of the Jurchen tribes along the Sunggari and Amur rivers. His fleet sailed down the Sunggari into the Amur, and set up the NCP.
These missions are not well recorded in the Ming dynastic history, but an important source on them is two stone steles erected by Yishiha at the site of the Yongning Temple 永宁寺, a Guanyin temple commissioned by him at Telin. The inscriptions on the steles are in four languages: Chinese, Jurchen, Mongol, and Tibetan. There is probably quite a lot of propaganda in the inscriptions, but they give a detailed record of the Ming court's efforts to assert suzerainty over the Jurchens. This was the historical testimony of China's development of the Heilong river and Ussuri river basins.
====Qing dynasty era: Miaojie====
The area of the town was originally a part of imperial China and consisted of the town of Miàojiē (Chinese: 廟街). After China lost the Second Opium War, the area was ceded to Russia under the 1858 Treaty of Aigun and 1860 Beijing Treaty.
====Fuyori====
Japanese explorer Mamiya Rinzo describes a town he calls Fuyori in his writings of early 19th century, which is apparently at the location of current Nikolayevsk-on-Amur. He describes a visit to a Manchu coastal town on the left side of the mouth of the Amur River during his expeditions in the Sakhalin island area (Karafuto in Japanese). The city was at the time (before the Treaty of Aigun) in the northeastern part of the Chinese province of Heilongjiang (Hulun in Manchu).
Some Japanese myths are set in this area.
: The agenda behind the above material is transparent: to demonstrate that the area had a significant Chinese/Japanese presence before the arrival of the bloody Russians. In order for this stuff to be retained in mainspace, it needs to be: a) elaborately sourced; b) demonstrated that a fishing village of "Fuyori" did occupy the spot of modern-day Nikolayevsk. I have browsed for sources in Google Books and Runet, but in vain. There is no information about a pre-Russian settlement on the official site of Nikolayevsk or the municipal museum. As for www.karafuto.com, it does not qualify as a reliable source per WP:RS. --Ghirla-трёп- 19:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: ====Ming dynasty era: Telin====
In 1409, the Ming government set up a post called Nurkal (Nu'ergan) Command Post 努尔干都司 (NCP) at Telin 特林 (now Nikolayevsk-na-Amur in the Russian Far East) in the vicinity of Heilong River. The three parts of the Jurchen tribe came under the administration of the NCP. Leaders of the Haixi and Jianzhou tribes had accepted the Ming government's enfeoffments.
From 1411 to 1433, the Ming eunuch Yishiha 亦失哈 (a man of Jurchen origin) led ten large missions to win over the allegiance of the Jurchen tribes along the Sunggari and Amur rivers. His fleet sailed down the Sunggari into the Amur, and set up the NCP.
These missions are not well recorded in the Ming dynastic history, but an important source on them is two stone steles erected by Yishiha at the site of the Yongning Temple 永宁寺, a Guanyin temple commissioned by him at Telin. The inscriptions on the steles are in four languages: Chinese, Jurchen, Mongol, and Tibetan. There is probably quite a lot of propaganda in the inscriptions, but they give a detailed record of the Ming court's efforts to assert suzerainty over the Jurchens. This was the historical testimony of China's development of the Heilong river and Ussuri river basins.
====Qing dynasty era: Miaojie====
The area of the town was originally a part of imperial China and consisted of the town of Miàojiē (Chinese: 廟街). After China lost the Second Opium War, the area was ceded to Russia under the 1858 Treaty of Aigun and 1860 Beijing Treaty.
====Fuyori====
Japanese explorer Mamiya Rinzo describes a town he calls Fuyori in his writings of early 19th century, which is apparently at the location of current Nikolayevsk-on-Amur. He describes a visit to a Manchu coastal town on the left side of the mouth of the Amur River during his expeditions in the Sakhalin island area (Karafuto in Japanese). The city was at the time (before the Treaty of Aigun) in the northeastern part of the Chinese province of Heilongjiang (Hulun in Manchu).
Some Japanese myths are set in this area.
: The agenda behind the above material is transparent: to demonstrate that the area had a significant Chinese/Japanese presence before the arrival of the bloody Russians. In order for this stuff to be retained in mainspace, it needs to be: a) elaborately sourced; b) demonstrated that a fishing village of "Fuyori" did occupy the spot of modern-day Nikolayevsk. I have browsed for sources in Google Books and Runet, but in vain. There is no information about a pre-Russian settlement on the official site of Nikolayevsk or the municipal museum. As for www.karafuto.com, it does not qualify as a reliable source per WP:RS. --Ghirla-трёп- 19:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Medieval and early-modern history

message: Japanese explorer Mamiya Rinzo describes a town he calls Fuyori in his writings of early 19th century, which is apparently at the location of current Nikolayevsk-on-Amur. He describes a visit to a Manchu coastal town on the left side of the mouth of the Amur River during his expeditions in the Sakhalin island area (Karafuto in Japanese). The city was at the time (before the Treaty of Aigun) in the northeastern part of the Chinese province of Heilongjiang (Hulun in Manchu).
Some Japanese myths are set in this area.
: The agenda behind the above material is transparent: to demonstrate that the area had a significant Chinese/Japanese presence before the arrival of the bloody Russians. In order for this stuff to be retained in mainspace, it needs to be: a) elaborately sourced; b) demonstrated that a fishing village of "Fuyori" did occupy the spot of modern-day Nikolayevsk. I have browsed for sources in Google Books and Runet, but in vain. There is no information about a pre-Russian settlement on the official site of Nikolayevsk or the municipal museum. As for www.karafuto.com, it does not qualify as a reliable source per WP:RS. --Ghirla-трёп- 19:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fuyori

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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