Talk:Jack Tramiel

message: The article is lacking in references; though I suspect most are to the website and book listed below.  There are quite a few
other online sources of info, plus another book written about Tramiel (in circa late 1980's).  Also, some of this seems to be written from a "friendly" POV, not a neutral POV - all the controversial aspects seem to be glossed over or ignored.  That said, the book referenced looks to be very well done (and I know a lot of the principals mentioned).  jesup 22:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what you're refering to with "controversial" points, and I hope you don't mean the missinformation put out by RJ Mical regarding the whole Atari/Amiga fiasco.  I took out two of the citation requests, because that info was already covered in the cited "On the Edge Book" by Brian Bagnall (which I contributed to as well).  The name issue (Tramel instead of Tramiel) is common knowlege and the spelling is used on all SEC filings, the quote used in reference is from an interview with Leonard Tramiel a number of years ago (a portion of which is published at ClassicGaming.Com).  The Japanese comment is also from the same interview, and Jack's desire to compete against the Japanese was also well documented as a driving force during his Commodore days as well going all the way back to Commodore's calculator days (also covered in said book, as well as numerous online Commodore history sites with direct quotes from him such as ).  So I'm not sure why him being ultra-competitive towards the Japanese is being contested.  It was also a view held in public opinion at the time as evidenced by .  As for the executives leaving in protest, it is documented here and here (under the blurb "2 MACHINES CHALLENGE I.B.M."). --Marty Goldberg 06:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds like you have references, but they should be in the article, not here on the talk page.  He is a somewhat controversial figure in business history, and many histories of the company from different sources mention the controversies surrounding him.  While not appropriate for a Wiki page (WP:NOR), I know a quite a few of the people involved, and they give a very different picture than some parts of this page.  I've done some quick looking and have found at least a half a dozen additional WP:RS that can be used to improve the article.  A good start before I begin editing might be for you to make a pass adding references, which should help avoid mistakes in future editing.  An editor coming into this article does not see obvious sourcing. WP:BLP encourages you to have as many references as possible in this sort of case.  Thanks!  jesup 11:16, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Randell, I'm certainly aware of how controversial he is regarding business.  My main focus in relation to this crossover of subjects has been on TTL and his Atari years (and that's the era where a lot of my aquaintences regarding him are as well, such as Joe Decuir, who was all but erased from Amiga history until I brought to light his involvement.  He had to lay low at the time because of having the unique distinction of being employed at both Amiga and Atari Inc. at the time of this changeover).  So if you have additional resources previous to that have fun!  I'd just caution that while there are a lot of negative stories, not all are accurate or hold water when actually researched, and that remember to ballance it as WP is meant to be neutral.  There's an imbalance of negative stories/resources out there, so I always try and ballance the positive and negative with regards to him.  As you can see from my contributions listing, I'm not new to WP and am familiar with the references process.  However, because I contribute to such a wide ammount of articles and have a busy "real life" schedule, I can't always get to every task that needs to be done when I should.  I'll try and add them in later today.  By the way, how did you enjoy your time at Amiga?  What did you do there?  --Marty Goldberg 14:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 1988-1994.  The "deathbed vigil" party immortalized by Dave Haynie (and Dale Larson) was held at my house, where we burned Mehdi Ali in effigy.  It was a blast overall, though with lots of painful moments along the way.  The rebuilt Amiga team (almost everyone was let go in circa 1986-1987) was an amazingly strong group, led by people like Jeff Porter, Bryce Nesbitt, Dave Haynie, Andy Finkel, myself and later Mike Sinz.  A number of the original Amiga people consulted or worked with us at times (Dale Luck, Bob 'Kodiak' Burns, the guy who replaced RJ on Intuition and more recently was a major person in creating "The Sims", Carl Sassenrath, the guy who designed "Paula".  Considering how badly we were outnumbered by people like Microsoft and Apple we did an amazing job.  I inherited the role of Head of the OS group after Bryce and later Mike left.  jesup 16:08, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References needed 

message: I've seriously trimmed this article. There was a very large amount which was history of various companies which is best described on the company pages, and lacked sources. --h2g2bob (talk) 12:03, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Corrected a few things that were summarized incorrectly from the trimming. --Marty Goldberg 15:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Major edit

message: Other sources ("On the Edge", or the German Wikipedia) say Tramiel is born as "Idek Tramielski", not Idek Trzmiel. What was his real name?--194.77.253.245 (talk) 14:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: real name? 

message: I removed this diff:
:: Former employees at Atari Corp. have also stated the work environment was very unpleasant and volatile, with some later complaining that their lives and careers had been ruined by Tramiel and his sons.On the Edge: The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore by Brian Bagnall, Variant Press, ISBN 0973864907
Nowhere in the two web accessible references does it support the claim - one says "After Jack Tramiel bought Atari, it was not a very attractive place to work" - in the other the claim is made second hand in the comments section - quote "I’m a Commodore fan from way back, and it’s nice to hear an Atari insider’s stories about the Tramiels (the opinions of the Commodore engineers are pretty well documented–I believe one of them, seeing Jack Tramiel years later, told him that he ruined his career, his marriage, and his life).", along with claims that they were stock market manipulators.
Another post (ignored) says "Working with Leonard [Tramiel] and the rest of the team at Atari was truly a memorable experience. Parts of working for the Tramiels were crazy, but I have to say working for Leonard was a great experience. If you worked at Atari, you know that some great people came through those doors over the years. And some pretty good products came out there as well."
The third source is not specific enough - need a page number.
There are some non-trivial unreferenced statements in the article. I think this needs checking probably. I will report to WP:BLPImgaril (talk) 16:06, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: ==Controversy==
Tramiel is sometimes viewed with disdain for his overall business conduct practices and operations under the Atari brand.Interview with the Sydney Morning Herald For example, Tramiel is claimed to have kept the marketing and game development budget for consoles such as the 7800 at an absolute minimum, and as a result very few games were produced in comparison to the Nintendo Entertainment System, further infuriating Atari gamers.
The newspaper article is undated and unavailable, the second part is not verifyied by the given reference. I am not contesting the statements, they need reliably referencing if true.Imgaril (talk) 16:17, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Claims of "ruined lives"

message: Also another part fails verification from the sources
::==Controversy==
Tramiel is sometimes viewed with disdain for his overall business conduct practices and operations under the Atari brand.Interview with the Sydney Morning Herald For example, Tramiel is claimed to have kept the marketing and game development budget for consoles such as the 7800 at an absolute minimum, and as a result very few games were produced in comparison to the Nintendo Entertainment System, further infuriating Atari gamers.
The newspaper article is undated and unavailable, the second part is not verifyied by the given reference. I am not contesting the statements, they need reliably referencing if true.Imgaril (talk) 16:17, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: more

message: Can anybody confirm the passing of Jack Tramiel? http://groups.google.com/group/alt.obituaries/browse_thread/thread/d7014da27284af59/a627c644670a206f#a627c644670a206f)
[edit]
A story from Forbes just appeared online which is similar to the newsgroup post:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/09/computer-legend-and-gaming-pioneer-jack-tramiel-dies-at-age-83/
thanks.
:It's been confirmed and a Forbes article posted as reference. After I confirmed it with his son Leonard I contacted a freelancer I know at Forbes about doing an obit. He in turn contacted the family as well and got confirmation, hence the article. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 18:51, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder if his legacy will receive as much attention as did Steve Jobs'?  I'd argue that Tramiel did more to put computers in the common man's home than anyone. WHPratt (talk) 19:01, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I can only hope. I know he's doing a followup full sized article as well, but I hope the larger pieces aren't limited to just Forbes. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 19:03, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jack Tramiel passed away? 

message: in my opinion these details are significant, regardless of age.  certainly for younger people everyone would demand such cause.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarksmom (talk • contribs) 05:08, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  cause of death not stated 

message: I saw a lot of media surrounding his death and it appears his name is pronounced  . Anyone know different? --Moogsi (talk) 08:49, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's correct. That's the reason why his company after Commodore, Tramel Technology Ltd. was spelt Tramel - so people pronounced his last name properly. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 16:15, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks – added to the article, per request. That people mispronounced him that much means it's probably needed :) --Moogsi (talk) 18:16, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to say 'Tramiel' 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I remember reading in a German magazine that Tramiel left Commodore because his attempts to heave his sons into Commodore's management were denied to him by other shareholders. I do not have that magazine at hand right now, but if this is true, then we should handle with caution any account his son(s) give of these matters. They may not be impartial. I am especially alarmed reading in the comments on Youtube that the Wikipedia article short be corrected. We do not know what is correct, and probably never will (like so many things about Tramiel's Commodore: The real origins of the name Commodore, the alleged reasons for choosing the V(I)C-20's name ("Volkscomputer"), etc.). --2003:DE:23C6:6524:2047:C435:1DBF:549B (talk) 15:24, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reasons for leaving Commodore 

message: Why couldn't I find a single source referring to this person as Idek? Polish wikipedia says Jacek and every source I've seen does too. Wiktorpp (talk) 16:25, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name