Talk:Ahmad Jamal

message: I just saw his homepage and dicovered his e-mail address is non valide [info@ahmadjamal.info]. I wanted to ask him if he recorded the o.v. of it but certainly not in 1958 (mystiping of coverinfo.de) seeing Mrs. Brewer was already #1 in the POP chart back in 1950. (DECCA/Coral 9-60140). I'd really like to know what is going on. Thanks in advance.  Stephan KŒNIG 14:28, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music music music (Put another nickel in/ it) 

message: 1st name: Jamal - family name: Ahmad...I spoke with somebody last evening about it and told him what was/is his 1st name and surname: JAMAL AHMAD...  Stephan KŒNIG 22:10, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ahmad Jamal...??? 

message: 1950 makes more sense chronologically for his conversion to Islam and changing his name.
"...Stan Getz and The Ahmad Jamal Trio. This was 1951 an..." from http://www.ahmadjamal.net/experiences.html
and this the date listed in Grove Music Online http://www.grovemusic.com/shared/views/article.html?from=search§ion=jazz.221400
User:Arhada 4 October 2006
:See below.  Frederick Russell Jones changed his name to Ahmad Jamal on February 18, 1952.  His wife changed her name on the same occasion.  The exact date of his conversion to Islam is not in the public record but presumably was not much earlier.-RLCampbell (talk) 20:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  conversion to Islam 1950 [?]

message: Added the Wave and Awakening breaks. Irishgeek 00:08, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samples 

message: --116.71.219.46 (talk) 13:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  jamal 

message: i'm puzzled by the expression "his innovative use of multi-tonal melodic lines". i'm really curious to know what the author thought he or she was saying with "multi-tonal melodic lines"....  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.134.172.182 (talk) 23:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  multi-tonal melodic lines 

message: Is it just me or does "Ahmad Jamal is an exclusive Steinway Artist" having its own paragraph sound like advertisement vandalism?  I think if he only used Steinway pianos it's worth mentioning, but I most certainly don't think it belongs as the very last part of his biography, in its own paragraph.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.134.187.77 (talk) 02:48, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steinway 

message: Whats with the second paragraph which should be an introduction to this artist in his own right? No offense to miles davis, but couldn't this go lower down in thhe influenced" section. If mentioning davis is a must, perhaps a sentence would do?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Idiro (talk • contribs) 19:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction- brown nosing miles davis 

message: The article clearly states that Mr Jamal is known as Ahmad Jamal and refers to him as such throughout. There is no question whatsoever on that point. Anybody who knows anything about jazz has that very clear. 
However, there seems to be an issue regarding his name at birth, i.e. before his conversion to Islam in the 1950s. As per Wikipedia guidelines, the article gives his full name - at birth - as Frederick Russell Jones, and gives a reputable inline citation. So far, so good.
Despite repeated requests on his/her talk page - which may possibly not have been seen by the editor in question - and hidden text on the article itself which has been deleted by the editor, an editor (who works for Mr Jamal) is constantly deleting the name and corresponding inline citation and stating that Mr Jamal was born Ahmad Jamal. As this concerns a living person - and one of my favourite jazz musicians - and the reverting editor seems to be acting in good faith, but is generating unnecessary work, is there any admin. out there who can take this matter up? Cheers! --Technopat (talk) 11:23, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously the musician was not born Ahmad Jamal.  The court papers for his name change were filed on February 18, 1952; they state that his name at birth was Frederick Russell Jones.  He was identified in a high school photo as Freddie Jones and in nightclub advertisements, OKeh Records ads, and in the records of Musicians Union Local 208 before his name change as Fritz Jones. 'Nuff said... I hope.-RLCampbell (talk) 20:20, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What on earth could constitute "sufficient evidence" that Ahmad Jamal (who changed his name in 1952) was known as Ahmad Jamal at birth?-RLCampbell (talk) 16:11, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name at birth 

message: There needs to be further discussion of the OTRS decision (see above) to delete all references to Ahmad Jamal's birth name.
The document or documents on which this decision was based have not been made available.  The claim was merely made that they were "vital records" (of what sort and from what jurisdiction was not specified).
Here is the text of a name change petition, filed in a Cook County (Illinois) court in 1952.  It was located by Alexia Kinni, a graduate student of Lewis Porter at the Institute of Jazz Studies:
That the place of nativity of Frederick Russell Jones is the state of Pennsylvania and that the place of nativity of Virginia Wilkins Jones is the state of Illinois. That the age of F. R. J. is 21 years and that the age of V. W. J. is 25 years. That F. R. J. has resided in the state of Illinois for 2 years and that V. W. J. has resided in the State of Illinois for 25 years last past... Their names may be changed to Ahmad Jamal and Maryam Mezzan Jamal... Witnessed by Eddie A. Calhoun, February 18, 1952.
At the very least, some response is called for, on the part of those who deny that Ahmad Jamal was ever named Frederick Russell Jones, Freddie Jones, or Fritz Jones.-RLCampbell (talk) 23:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: As per Burden of evidence, "any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation."  The article had an inline citation from a well-respected source stating that Jamal's name at birth was Jones. This has been "over-turned" by an OTRS decision - without any corresponding inline citation to a "reliable, published source". And no-one seems to mind...--Technopat (talk) 23:28, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Just a quick note in response to the threat of "suffering the consequences" aimed at the above editor. First of all, my support to Dr Aaij. Nobody, here at Wikipedia or elsewhere, for that matter, should be subjected to threats, anonymous or otherwise. Second, if the person responsible for such intolerance had the intelligence to check out the edit history, he or she would have seen that I am the editor mainly responsible for keeping that reference to Jamal's original name, well-known within the music world, regardless of whether Wikipedia considers evidence to that effect a primary source. I very much doubt that Jamal himself would stoop so low as to threaten anyone as musicians tend to be remarkably tolerant people, but they do tend to find themselves surrounded by "morons" of many types, precisely because of their excessive tolerance. --Technopat (talk) 07:23, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC on Not Giving Ahmad Jamal's Birth Name as Frederick Russell Jones

message: I don't know if I'm the only one who's been receiving insulting email from someone claiming to be Ahmad Jamal about the birth name--this abusive person holds me responsible for putting the name in the article, and tells me I should remove the name from Wikipedia or "suffer the consequences." You know, that really kills my desire to play his music again--if it is really him. To whoever the idiot was who identified me as the "culprit": you're a moron, and you should look at the edit history more carefully. Dr Aaij (talk) 01:32, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a quick note in response to the threat of "suffering the consequences" aimed at the above editor. First of all, my support to Dr Aaij. Nobody, here at Wikipedia or elsewhere, for that matter, should be subjected to threats, anonymous or otherwise. Second, if the person responsible for such intolerance had the intelligence to check out the edit history, he or she would have seen that I am the editor mainly responsible for keeping that reference to Jamal's original name, well-known within the music world, regardless of whether Wikipedia considers evidence to that effect a primary source. I very much doubt that Jamal himself would stoop so low as to threaten anyone as musicians tend to be remarkably tolerant people, but they do tend to find themselves surrounded by "morons" of many types, precisely because of their excessive tolerance. --Technopat (talk) 07:23, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Insulting email

message: I don't believe it's really right to include Crouch's assessment of Ahmad Jamal as "second in importance in the development of jazz after 1945 only to Charlie Parker" right in the second sentence of the Intro, without a counter assessment for balance there, especially as later in the article it states that Jamal is often "overlooked" by critics. This endorsement is made all the more unusual with the addition of the Miles Davis quote that has already been mentioned, since Davis chose Bill Evans to be in his band at the time of Kind Of Blue. Crouch has a heavy-duty agenda for some kind of jazz purity that is simply not universally accepted in Jazz, especially not by guys like Miles Davis... So Crouch's particular take coupled with Davis's comments appear as supporting a position about Ahmad Jamal that is not representative of the Jazz "world" as a whole. That's not to put down Ahmad Jamal in any way whatsoever. But if the article is going to make claims, they should represent some kind of worldview of equals, rather than that of certain individuals only, who may have been trying to just be polite at best or self-serving at worst. - Jelsova (talk) 15:41, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. EddieHugh (talk) 07:45, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

text: I'm with you--would something like this work instead?  "Jamal has achieved critical acclaim around the world for his (insert description of style of playing)."  Tdimhcs (talk) 23:34, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: 3 weeks with no dissent, so I've moved it to the main text. EddieHugh (talk) 23:15, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crouch's Proclamation of AJ in the Inro 

message: They have to mean Joe Kennedy Jr. He was also from Pittsburgh. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV8enW2mpLuygvyx7jiCAFgPoboyjones (talk) 19:49, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I've linked the first mention of him and cut the second (it must have been the same person, as Ray Kennedy was a pianist). EddieHugh (talk) 23:12, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could the violinist described be Joe Kennedy Jr. instead of Ray Kennedy? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hi, I just made an addition to the discography but thought it well to log in and make myself known so as not to have made the change anonymously. I was looking at the page for AJ's album 'Digital Works', and noticed that it lists 'Goodbye Mr. Evans' as the preceding album in 1982 but there's no page for that album, nor did I see it listed in the discography table on the full Ahmad Jamal page. I went to ahmadjamal.com and got the info to add it, citing the website. KVAartist (talk) 19:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  added to discography 

message: the current version says: "in 1962... at the age of 32, he took a three-year hiatus from his musical career" but he recorded the Emerald City Nights series in 1963 and 1964. This needs to be reconciled somehow. Jmlpgh (talk) 19:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the length of it, but left the hiatus part. Without a source to say how long, if any, it should remain. Wyliepedia @ 23:59, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three year hiatus? 

message: I think it would be great for the readers if we separate Jamal's influences and who he influenced. both of these subjects have a great deal of information. Ayyydoc (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, but this is more of a support for a general legacy section. Viriditas (talk) 08:41, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  creating separate "legacy" section