Talk:Parkinson's disease/Archive 2

message: Clinical evidence has a (2004) monograph on PD that may assist us in citing the right sources. JFW | T@lk 21:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Useful source 

message: While we're on the topic of "related diseases," I've noticed that hemochromatosis was recently added .  I'm not sure if this entity is necessarily worth including, for more or less the same reasons that hydrocephalus should not be included.  Andrew73 16:54, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This claim is only based on one citation in which a few cases of haemochromatosis were merely found simultaneously with Parkinson's Disease. More extensive examination showed that haemochromatosis did not cause Parkinson's Disease. Many medical disorders can occur simultaneously without being responsible for their cause. --Gerard Doyle 13:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

text: There are several reasonably-credible reports of an association between hemochromatosis and Parkinson's disease.   E.g., Concurrent hereditary haemochromatosis and idiopathic Parkinson’s disease: a case report series.  I'd have to go back to get the earlier cites,  but I have known about it since the early 1970's, as a graduate student. It may be one of those things that everybody knows about, so it is not "reportable".  If memory serves,  present work on the involvement of iron in PD comes from this source. Pproctor 00:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hemochromatosis 

message: At present, Parkinsonism is being duplicated by being spread out over the following five articles :
* [Parkinson's disease]]
* Parkinson's disease mimics
* Parkinsonism
* Parkinson plus syndrome
* Parkinson plus
I suggest that the Parkinsonism disorders be listed on the Parkinson's Disease article, and linked to one Wikipedia Parkinsonism article that gave summary details of each of those disorders.
--Gerard Doyle 19:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uhh, I agree that "PD mimics" should be merged with Parkinsonism. I feel the seperate article "Parkinson plus syndrome" should remain, as this is a container term that needs to be dealt with independently. Finally, Parkinson-plus is a redirect - I'm not sure why you included it. JFW | T@lk 22:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

text: The activities have all of the stigmata of a GT sock puppet (though I'm surprised at the incredible restraint in not using boldface).  I'm not sure how reliable the check user would be, given that GT has been using domains in the Middle East.  Andrew73 17:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree with Paul - banned users, especially one of Bridgeman's ilk, simply should not be posting. Hydrocephalus rarely can cause Parkinson's-like symptoms, and in that case, so what? It's obvious to the diagnosing clinician what's going on, and there's really no light shed on PD etiology or treatment thereby, since the tx is to treat the hydrocephalus. It's irrelevant, and the discussion has gone on way too long. But that's typical pointless Bridgeman argumentation. --Dan 15:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with Dan's reasoning that including hydrocephalus doesn't add that much to the article.  Andrew73 00:31, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I would suggest, therefore, "Gerard", that you go and do your own site, so you can do it to your own satisfaction and standards, and leave us to our collective incompentence. --Dan 22:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well "Dan", I don't think it fair of you to describe your own efforts as "incompetence" because when added up you have hardly added anything in order to be incompetent. On most articles people make their contributions and move on. Instead, you don't make contributions yet still linger. If you have something to add, why haven't you added it. If you don't have anything to add, why are you still hanging around ? I am really baffled by this. --Gerard Doyle 23:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parkinsonism 

message: Vascular parkinsonism is produced by one or more small strokes that affect the basal ganglia. A stroke is the loss of activity of a discreet brain area (lesion) because of blockage of the blood supply to that brain region. Vascular diseases are associated with a higher prevalence of Parkinson's Disease [1]. There are three different pathologic states that produce Vascular Parkinsonism (VP), including multiple lacunar infarctions in the basal ganglia area [2,3], subcortical arteriosclerotic changes (Binswanger's disease) [2,3] and a single vascular lesion that present a clinical picture indistinguishable from Parkinson's disease [2,3,4]. Parkinson's Disease symptoms occur in Vascular Parkinsonism [5-12]. However, resting tremor is either reduced [5,6], or absent [7,8]. Only a minority, but a large minority, of people with Vascular Parkinsonism respond to L-dopa [9,10].
[1] Archives of Neurology [2006] 63 (5) : 717-722 (E.D.Louis, J.A.Luchsinger)
[2] Journal of Neurology [2006] 253 (Supplement 3) : iii16-iii21 (K.Fukimoto)
[3] Journal of Neurology [2004] 251 (5) : 513-524 (I.Sibon, G.Fenelon, N.P.Quinn, F.Tison)
[4] Journal of Clinical Neuroscience [2001] 8 (3) : 268-271 (S.Peters, E.G.Eising, H.Przuntek, T.Muller)
[5] Di Yi Jun Yi Da Xue Xue Bao [2005] 25 (7) : 868-870 (D.Q.Zhao)
[6] Archives of Neurology [1999] 56 (1) : 98-102 (J.Winikates, J.Jankovic)
[7] Acta Neurologica Scandinavica [1992] 86 (6) : 588-592 (C.M.Chang, Y.L.Yu, H.K.Ng, S.Y.Leung, K.Y.Fong)
[8] Stroke [1997] 28 (5) : 965-969 (H.Yamanouchi, H.Nagura)
[9] Journal of Neurology [2005] 252 (9) : 1045-1049 (LRampello, A.Alvano, G.Battaglia, R.Raffaele, I.Vecchio, M.Malaguarnera)
[10] Journal of Neurological and Neurosurgical Psychiatry [2004] 75 (4) : 545-547 (J.C.Zijlmans, R.Katzenschlager, S.E.Daniel, A.J.Lees)
[11] Acta Neurologica Scandinavica [2001] 104 (2) : 63-67 (M.Demirkiran M, Bozdemir H, Sarica Y.)
[12] Movement Disorders [1996] 11 (5) : 501-508 (J.C.Zijlmans, P.J.Poels, J.Duysens, J.van der Straaten, T.Thien, M.A.van't Hof, H.O.Thijssen, M.W.Horstink)
--Gerard Doyle 21:12, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You have already been informed that causes of parkinsonism should not be listed here unless part of the GENUINE differential diagnosis of Parkinson's disease. Just listing papers will not help you - this shows that you are good at copying & pasting from an inexhaustible list of articles. You can't even be bothered to list the names of papers or their PMID code. All other editors manage (or at least try) to do that. JFW | T@lk 19:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vascular Parkinsonism

message: Gerard is right, I should have explained here why I removed the section about manganese poisoning. It's for the same reason his own work gets reverted: it is not common, does not normally form part of the differential diagnosis of PD, and furthermore it is the work of an editor who likes to link to his own website to support his edits. There were no objections when I removed it earlier (apart from Gerard), so I suspect my repeated removal will be accepted without much problems. JFW | T@lk 19:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Manganese and Pproctor

message: deleted a paragraph in the "toxic causes" section with no explanation. I have reverted for now. If we get further new/red user vandalism I suspect we'll need to get the article semiprotected again. JFW | T@lk 22:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sprotection 

message: Just checking up on the article and I noticed that the External links section has grown out of control. I've removed all of the following links:
*European Parkinson's Disease Association
*Parkinson Society Canada
*Parkinson's Disease Foundation
*Parkinson's Action Network
*Hope For A Cure Foundation for Parkinson's Research
*Dr. Abe Lieberman's Ask the Doctor Parkinson Forum
*National Parkinson Foundation, Inc.
*American Parkinson's Disease Association
*Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research
*Parkinson's Disease Society (UK)
*Parkinson's NSW (In AUS)
*'Investigating Parkinson's Disease' Dr Brigit Liss Freeview 'Snapshots' video by the Vega Science Trust and the BBC/OU. 
*MyParkinsonsInfo.com
*The PD Webring
*WEMOVE: Worldwide education and awareness for movement disorders
*NETRP Web site
*Northwest Parkinson's Foundation
*Parkinson's Resources on the WWWeb
*Parkinson's Disease Pictures
*Parkinson's Drug Comparison Chart (PDF)
*International Society for Posture and Gait Research (ISPGR)
*HollyRod Foundation
*Lee Silverman Voice Therapy
and replaced them with a link to the Open Directory Project (formerly Dmoz) which suggests editors submit their links there and  to force new editors to post new links here for review first. So what links should this article contain as an encyclopedia article and not a web directory per the Wikipedia:External links policy? --   Netsnipe  ►  20:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting question. This is not an advocacy site, of course, but laypeople may well come here for further information, and might appreciate having links to further information. I suspect that's the thinking behind the lists of links, but I agree with your point that this is an encyclopedia, and there are plenty of link farms out there on the net. So as an encyclopedia, what would be best? I dunno, maybe a link to current review articles such as the extanisve UK government review on toxins & PD (don't have the URL handy, sorry - it's in VOLUME 114 | NUMBER 2 | February 2006 • Environmental Health Perspectives, and is about 170 pages long. Or a research consortium site, like CCPDER? Links make me uneasy  - it's altogether too easy to get into spamming problems. --Dan 22:39, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks for reviewing the links Naudi. The only one I haven't restored to the page is Michael J. Fox's Foundation. I have some reservations that including it will introduce a slippery slope with other advocacy groups arguing that it's unfair to exclude them while MJF's Foundation is listed. Thoughts? --   Netsnipe  ►  10:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links review 

message: removed mention of Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately media anthro is a new user, and was reverted by the VoAbot II (which watches this article). I think there is no concensus amongst "paleo-physicians" (doctors who like to diagnose illness in dead white men) that Hitler had PD, but some evidence is definitely present. 
We have a whole article discussing Hitler's health at Adolf Hitler's medical health, which is a bit low on evidence. However,  and  go quite a way into strengthening the case. Perhaps we should indeed make the wording a bit more tentative. JFW | T@lk 09:44, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitler's PD 

message: Following the L-DOPA section, there is a section on dopamine agonists with the following line:
:These have their own side effects including those listed above in addition to somnolence...
There is nothing listed "above" in that section or, as far as I can tell, in the L-DOPA section.  I presume the general side effects would include hyperkinesias, and this should probably be stated.  I'm not adding myself because I have no reference available. SJS1971 13:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Tardive dyskinesias, hallucinations, and possibly dopamine dysregulation syndrome would be obvious ones to start with. Also there is a feeling that the sooner one starts dopaminergic medications the sooner their benefits will wear off. I'm a bit stretched for time at the moment, anyone else feel like having a crack at these? --PaulWicks 13:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Side Effects Of Drugs 

message: When I found the article today, the surgery section seemed to underplay the research in this area.  My own sense (but as an academic, not a medical professional) is that there is increasing excitement about pallidotomy and other surgical interventions.  I have added just a small bit to the surgery section and provided references but would be happy to have someone else look over and add to it if justified. SJS1971 13:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surgery 

message: Here a very interesting article on medlounge.org that talks about connection of glutathione with Parkinson's disease. This would be a great addition to Wikipedia's knowledgebase. (http://www.medlounge.org/articles/view/12.html)
Sorry, disagree. --PaulWicks 22:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Glutathione deficiency and Parkinson's disease -- Cause and Treatment 

message: I found the article very informative and well written. Good job! Anagnorisis 01:06, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article

message: I've put back some of the references that were deleted in previous edits.  Unless the references are wrong, why throw the baby out with the bathwater?  Andrew73 00:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've asked  to discuss removals of information first. I will need to remind him. JFW | T@lk 23:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits... 

message: An editor has favored deleting brand names from this article.  I figured inclusion of brand names (e.g. Sinemet, Requip, etc.) makes the content more accessible, especially to a lay audience who may not necessarily be familiar with the generic names (though I agree that in an academic article, brand names would be out of place).  Andrew73 04:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think main mention should be the generic (INN) names, but I think it  is reasonable for 1st mentions to then include in brackets the the (singular) main brand name for the main countries of English Wikipedia (i.e. the brands that developed the drug and 1st marketed and presumably therefore had the longest and largest sales - so Australia/Canada/NZ/UK/US would seem appropriate - mostly same names across different countries of course). David Ruben  Talk  04:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

text: There was a discussion in September @ Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Drugs#Drugs_and_brand_names on this topic.  I've just found it, so I don't have a post-reading comment right now.  Better to re-instate conversation on the topic over at the WikiProject, in my opinion. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 05:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brand names 

message: This may not be the right article, but several forms of dopamine agonism have been linked with a markedly increased risk of problem gambling. JFW | T@lk 01:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gambling 

message: It's Tojotime again. Low threshold for sprotect, please let me know if this continues. JFW | T@lk 07:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Above posting by  &  self-signing as indef blocked General Tojo - blocked indef. David Ruben  Talk  13:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

text: And thanks to Chris 73 for today's succesful Tojo hunt. It looks like he's got a new ISP or something. JFW | T@lk 21:54, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I have responded in a bit more detail to your message on my talkpage. Obviously, we will not yield to blackmail. JFW | T@lk 07:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tojo 

message: I noticed this Joseph_M._McDade#Indecent_exposure and wondered if there might be a connection with his Parkinson's. - Kittybrewster 17:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why? Mushintalk 02:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because of something I read in a PD magazine. Hypersexuality is a reported side effect of dopamine imbalance. - Kittybrewster 21:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Potentially, but that is entirely speculative. --PaulWicks 09:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Article should mention the genetic predisposition, but it's actually not very hereditable (5-10% at the most have a first-degree relative with PD). Seborrhoea is not pathognomonic, see below. JFW | T@lk 22:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sexuality and P.D.

message: David Wittgenstein was, of course, a Tojo sock - as confirmed by CheckUser. I have blocked that account. Given that he usually responds by unleashing hordes of sockpuppets, I have fully protected the article. It remains a shame that the normal editing process is interrupted repeatedly by a single individual. JFW | T@lk 10:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Return of Tojo