Talk:Dalit Buddhist movement

message: User:Pkulkarni has been blocked for one month for running these sockpuppet or meatpuppet accounts, as confirmed by User:Dmcdevit:
# User:Bhangi brahmin
# User:HKelkar2
# User:Kelkar123
# User:Iqbal123
# User:Dhammafriend
# User:Ambedkaritebuddhist
# User:Shrilankabuddhist
# User:Buddhistindian
# User:Shudra123
# User:Hindushudra
User:P K aya Kulkarni has also been blocked as a suspected case. Thought of dropping a note here, as all these accounts have been involved in edit/move wars related to this article. utcursch | talk 12:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I'm sure the info is much appreciated by everyone involved, including myself.NinaEliza 18:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's good to know. By the way, if you ever run into User:Dhammapal, please don't confuse him with the sockpuppet, User:Dhammafriend.—Nat Krause(Talk!) 02:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sockpuppetry/meatpuppetry

message: I believe there is scattered consenus to change the title of this article to "Neo-Buddhism".  However, I don't have time at the minute to write a descriptive paragraph that would explain the term. In the interest of having an article that makes sense, I think we should keep the title as it is, until we can agree on some definitive statement. More later. NinaEliza 18:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Neo-Buddhism already redirects to Dalit Buddhist movement. utcursch | talk 04:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's good to have some discussion going about the scope of this article. I think having an article specifically about the Ambedkarite movement sounds pretty good. On the other hand, I don't see anything wrong with the scope that this article originally had: about the overall resurgence of Buddhism in mainstream Indian society (as opposed to Tibetan-related groups in the north who have lately become Indian citizens).—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 02:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I put that stuff (Anagarika Dharmapala etc.) in the Buddhism in India article, which is quite small in size and needs expansion. utcursch | talk 16:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Neo-Buddhism is definitely a more appropriate term, and so is Ambedkarite movement. Dalit Buddhist Movement sounds more "Buddhist" than this movement actually is. deeptrivia (talk) 13:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Even Elst says it's Buddhism, where are you getting this? Arrow740 17:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Title Change

message: It is very strange to know that BuddhistIndian account was blocked. I am very much surprised to know that it has been awarded as sockpuppet of somebody .. On what basis u did it? I am writing from a cybercafe. So any Indian Buddhist who tries to write will be braded as sockpuppet?? Coz most of the people share same views.
The Hindu users are more interested to vandalise the articles with warped views.
What is dalit buddhist movement?? Dalit is a vague term Hindu Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes are Hindus only. 
There are some anti-Buddhist admisnistrators does it mean they can block very Indian Buddhists as sock puppet because everybody will write similar views. In the above discussion how many Indian Buddhists are involved to brand Indian Buddhists as Dalits?? Indianbuddhist 12:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The discussion is strange

message: The Anagarik Dhammapala Never started Dalit Movement. Dalit Movement was started by a poet Namdeo Dhasal who was born in Hindu Untouchable community. Now-a-days they are legally colled as Scheduled Caste and Scheduled tribes Indianbuddhist 12:26, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Anagarik Dhammapala

message: Hello, guys ..why are u reverting talk pages? Britzzz 20:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: It is interesting to see even talk pages are reverted 

message: Dmcdevit ran a checkuser and discovered more socks of Pkulkarni. I am in the process of blocking all of them and adding appropriate templates. 
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Regards, - Aksi_great (talk) 10:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, just to note that was the result of my check. :-) Dmcdevit·t 10:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have indef-blocked Pkulkarni. Comments are welcome here. - Aksi_great (talk) 10:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Krishnak12 is also most probably one of his socks. utcursch | talk 11:39, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Krishnak12's IP is from a different country than Pkulkarni. It may be possible that it is an open proxy. Till Dmcdevit checks the IP with other checkusers we will have to go by his editing habits. - Aksi_great (talk) 11:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Weareclever, it looks to me like you've been spamming several talk pages. In fact, your user contributions show a surprising number of spammed on my own watchlist. Please stop. NinaEliza (talk • contribs • [ logs]) 17:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I was referring to [] • contribs • [ logs]) 17:38, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Double sorry - getting used to my new and improved watchlist - I should really be using the current revision button more often. Thanks to everyone for handling the situation. NinaEliza (talk • contribs • [ logs]) 17:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More socks 

message: I have moved that section entirely to Buddhism in India, because it did not have much to do with the Dalit Buddhist Movement, but were about Buddhism in general. deeptrivia (talk) 02:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  International involvement 

message: R has been inserting some extremely POV material. A newspaper article extremely contemptuous of Dalit conversions is touted as a "non-partisan" source, and there's now a section denying that Maharashtrian upper castes ever oppressed Dalits -- supported by one ambiguous line in a newspaper article. 
It's late here but I'll see if I can do a rewrite tomorrow. The article might benefit from a clearer division into neutral material accepted by all, then opinions from supporters of the conversions, and finally opinions from opponents of conversions. Zora 09:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I see you are here also. Well, I could say that Gail Omdevt (who holds Hindus in absolute and unequivoal contempt) is an extremely POV material and cited as a "non-partisan" source. That's like citing Kevin B. MacDonald on articles on Judeo-Christianity. Not wrong but need balancing.See, for instance, his section on 
Christianity_and_antisemitism#Kevin_MacDonald.27s_theory_of_Christian_anti-Semitism.
You seem to have an interesting pattern of double standard against Hindus, just like Talk:Partition of India. Rumpelstiltskin223 09:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

text: His sources seem legit.--D-Boy 04:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I second Rumpelstiltskin... especially as a Maharashtrian i find it obnoxious that the class 'a' Hinduphobe like Gail Omvedt is used a non-neutral source. Her rants against Marathas and Brahmins have earned her infamy in Maharashtra. Having said that, claiming that Maharashtrian upper castes never opressed the Dalits is nothing but far from truth. But the intesity of casteism in modern day Maharashtra is an another matter altogether.  Amey Aryan DaBrood© 14:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumpelstiltskin's edits 

message: In my RfC response I stated that I would leave indefinitely until something was done about people like Dhammafriend, Holybrahmin, etc. Now that they are gone. I would like to announce that I am willing to work towards bettering this topic Thegreyanomaly 03:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I am now willing to participate 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "Buddhism in India : Challenging Brahmanism and Caste" :
** Omvedt, Gail. Buddhism in India : Challenging Brahmanism and Caste. 3rd ed. London/New Delhi/Thousand Oaks: Sage, 2003. pages: 2, 3-7, 8, 14-15, 19, 240, 266, 271
** Omvedt, Gail. Buddhism in India : Challenging Brahmanism and Caste. 3rd ed. London/New Delhi/Thousand Oaks: Sage, 2003. pages: 8
DumZiBoT (talk) 10:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: Is the Dalit Buddhist movement primarily a lay movement, or are they supporting monks and nuns?Sylvain1972 (talk) 02:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Character of the movment

message: Tried to add something about this Ambedkarite group, feel free to give more external references or make it even more balanced and factual. With a few revisions already.
If someone above my (relatively rookie) Wiki skills would be so kind to start with, or help in, making headwords for the at least three 'Karuna Trusts'I found (one in UK linked with TBMSG, one in Kerala doing local medical work and the third in Sri Lanka) and then a disambiguation page on top of it? Headwords/topics themselves would remain quite basic, but it would help Wikipedia to show the audience at least that there is confusion possible...
--Erikdr (talk) 07:04, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  TBMSG 

message: The website that it links to no longer exists. I found an article with the same name (http://www.thisismyanmar.com/nibbana/2589year.htm), but I'm not sure if it's the same.
Moses.hetfield (talk) 02:02, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link Rot: 2590 years of Buddhism 

message: Moved Vishweshateerta's critique one section higher, to 'criticism', where it IMHO belongs far better than under 'distinctive interpretation'
Erikdr (talk) 14:33, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved paragraph 

message: Is there a page on this parallel phenomenon amongst Dalits in India? It should also merit a mention in this article.
I get the impression that it is not as well organised as the mass Buddhist conversions, but somewhat better funded.-MacRùsgail (talk) 15:43, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Dalit Christian conversion

message: The section "Distinctive interpretation" contains the following sentence:
:"Ambedkar's followers do not believe that a person's conditions at birth are the result of previous karma."
As source it gives Queen, Christopher S. and Sallie B. King: Engaged Buddhism: Buddhist Liberation Movements in Asia: NY 1996: 47ff. u.A.
This sentemce seems to be incorrect; it is the result of an edit from 16:07, 14 October 2011, when the word "unfortunate" was removed: "a person's unfortunate conditions at birth". Unfortunately, I can't access p.48 of that source, but at page 47 it says:
:"Human suffering (the first noble truth in traditional accounts) is not chiefly caused by the sufferer's ignorance and cravings (the second truth) he held, but by social exploitation and and material poverty - the cruelty of others."
I'll make some changes. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:01, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: So where does it mentions "previous karma" that you added? Here "previous Karma" can be misinterpreted as "karma of previous birth". Better you should remove word "previous karma" if source accessible to you does not mention it.--Human3015Send WikiLove  05:13, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Sharp! Good point; thanks. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dalits and karma 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello,
I have added a subsection about the modern happenings of the Dalit Buddhist movement in the context of the Hindutva politics of the incumbent BJP government under Prime Minister Modi. Please give me suggestions on how it could be improved. Thanks!
Sidhu-jas98 (talk) 00:28, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed your additions since almost none of your references made mention of "Dalit Buddhist movement" or this movement anywhere. Since most dalits are Hindus, you can't misrepresent them to be belonging to this movement. buddhistdoor, and other opinion pieces/self published sources are not reliable. NavjotSR (talk) 09:09, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added subsection (Relationship with Hindu nationalism) 

message: Since this is a highly contested topic and not relevant to the subject, we shall only go by tertiary sources:
*India: The Ancient Past, A History of the Indian Subcontinent from c. 7000 BCE to CE 1200, Burjor Avari, Routledge, 2016, p. 274-276
*Berkwitz, Stephen C. South Asian Buddhism: A Survey. London and New York: Routledge, 2010, p. 140 [Mentioned in OXford Bibliographies as the only recent (and up-to-date) work to focus solely on Buddhism in India that covers the whole field.]
P.S. : Sarao's work is probably the only monograph on the topic in recent decades. And he takes a very nuanced position in these regards. Thanks, TrangaBellam (talk) 17:18, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Ping User:LearnIndology. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:41, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You argument makes sense, though I think a brief and balanced history of Decline of Buddhism in India in the history section should be given. What do you say? LearnIndology (talk) 18:57, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Decline of Buddhism