Talk:Cranbrook Schools

message: I merged some content from it as per its AFD debate. Johnleemk | Talk 10:29, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Charles T. Shaw]] redirects here

message: This page should be divided, it refers to three seperate schools as one. Brookside is not Cranbrook Kingswood School and the Middle Schools are not apart of the Upperschool, Perhaps it should be moved to Cranbrook Schools.--Elatanatari 20:23, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps the thing to do is simply to note somewhere toward the beginning of the article that, technically, these are three different schools.  They are so interwoven, historically and physically and architecturally, that it would, in my view, make the article less useful to split it up. JohnInDC 13:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split 

message: There are several people in the Notable Alumni list who did not graduate from Cranbrook, but are former students. Should there be a new category for these people?
:: Actually by definition "alumnus" includes anyone who ever attended a school, so the entries are proper as they are.   JohnInDC 22:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-Alumni 

message: I removed three entries from the "notable alumni" listing as simply non-notable.  As best I can tell, Mark Crain is the founder of a two-year-old web design firm with no apparent claim to fame or notoriety -- which, given the number of web design firms being founded nowadays would seem to be a prerequisite for inclusion here.  Otherwise he's just one of several hundred (thousand?) Cranbrook / Kingswood alums who founded their own business.  The entry strikes me as an ad rather than anything actually informative.  Suai Kee has a recording contract and a local gig but otherwise is well below the popular radar yet.  Likewise the entry seems more promotional than informational.  Finally, anyone can run for state representative - if Eric Gregory wins, by all means, put him in.
Until then, none of these qualifies as "notable" yet and their inclusion here is unwarranted.  JohnInDC 22:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen the same kinds of things - "he played soccer there" - but I think the only issue is whether his attendance can be verified.  (Which is probably worth doing come to think of it.)  I mean, notorious or not, if he went to the school he is certainly a "notable alumnus" and ought to be included whether or not Cranbrook regrets the association!  JohnInDC 15:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I'll ask around tommorow.Elatanatari 16:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Guanxi 16:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I've been thinking that the list could use a little paring but I haven't had the time to check some of the more recent additions against these or any other common-sense criteria of "notability".  E.g., someone's a Rhodes Scholar.  Interesting, yes, but really so distinguishing?  Or someone else has a recording contract and had a single released (3 years ago).  JohnInDC 16:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-notable Alumni 

message: Spurred by the Trivia tag that went up a few days ago, I looked at the section and concluded that it was little more than a hodgepodge of small items that really don't amount to much at all.  Truly "trivial", in other words.  The upshot is that I didn't see one thing that amounted to anything "encyclopedic" or which could / should be integrated into the main article, and so I deleted the section.  I hope folks feel generally the same way.  JohnInDC 01:54, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I entirely agree on your objection that a cultural reference belongs to a trivia section. Nevertheless, in this case a "normal" school is alluded in the key scene of an Oscar awarded movie. In my opinion that's far more than any educational institution could ever expect for their trivia (or popular references) section. Consequently, we should keep it in the article and see it as a great gift for Canbrook. (By the way, trivia sections do as well exist in other educational facility articles). --83.57.98.31 (talk) 19:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Trivia sections are disfavored in Wikipedia and Cranbrook's was removed a year ago after the article was tagged for it.  (The fact that other schools may have such sections is no argument in favor of one here.  See WP:OTHERSTUFF.)  Indeed this precise reference was one of the items removed.  See the diff here.  This single passing reference to Cranbrook in a popular movie is really pretty low on the list of things that makes the school worthy of an encyclopedia entry, and the fact that the only sensible place for it - if it were included - would be a "trivia" or "popular reference" section strongly suggests that it's better left out.  JohnInDC (talk) 02:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the links.  They illuminate my point.  Yale and Oxford (your selections) are iconic.   They are the subject of, or referenced in, vast amounts of literary and other material.  (Including, sadly, "Love Story".)  That ocean of literature is indeed one of the things that defines them.  Indeed, both of the examples you provide from the school pages are merely a subset of material found in entire Wikipedia articles devoted to those schools' roles in popular culture - see Yale_in_popular_culture and University of Oxford in popular culture.  Eminem's single brief (and disparaging!) reference to Cranbrook is indeed trivial, a random fact, by comparison.  Finally, again, even if none of these distinctions held, trivia sections are disfavored, see WP:Trivia; and the fact that one or many other pages may serve as bad counter-examples is not reason to clutter an uncluttered article.  WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.  JohnInDC (talk) 10:07, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia 

message: :Image:Cranbrook School Archer.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 19:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I took the existing rationale and installed it into a template, which presumably the unthinking bot will be able to recognize.  JohnInDC (talk) 20:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cranbrook School Archer.png

message: :Image:Cranbrook School Archer.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 13:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, my effort failed.  Given that a bot only looks for technical non-compliance and can't evaluate the substance of a fair use claim, the only thing I can figure is wrong is that the link in my prior edit, Cranbrook School, leads to a disambiguation page rather than the actual article, Cranbrook Schools.  So I fixed it.  Sheesh.  JohnInDC (talk) 13:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cranbrook School Archer.png

message: It seems to be somewhat improved, and it doesn't deserve the  banner now.  But it does have a problem in that most of the sources are primary, i.e. published by the school itself. Note that the Boarding School Review web site allows member schools to add and update their own information,  making it not really a reliable source. There is a wealth of information in Google Books, which would make better references, add to the artile's credibility, and possibly be the source of useful additions to the article. See  Voceditenore (talk) 16:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Referencing

message: (Moved here from my Talk page.  JohnInDC (talk) 01:25, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That particular youtube video does not apply to WP:YT. This is a quote from the userpage of the youtube user who posted the clip "We clip the best scenes from the greatest movies and bring them to youtube in a legal way for the world to enjoy" therefore there is no copywright infringement on the video. Do not remove the source again.--Rockchalk717 (talk) 01:02, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Copyright was only one of the potential problems.  It's a three-minute clip for a two second quote that doesn't come until 2/3 of the way in, and with no clue to the viewer where that spot is.  It's too much extraneous video for the small reference buried within it.  In its place I've restored the NYT link that you removed as dead (it comes up fine), that original ref being s fully sufficient to establish the cited fact, and more convenient to the reader.  I'm also moving this discussion to the article Talk page, where you indicated you'd be discussing it.  Thanks!  JohnInDC (talk) 01:25, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: 8 Mile Pop Culture References

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071012090133/http://www.christchurchcranbrook.org/history.html to http://www.christchurchcranbrook.org/history.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080828024530/http://www.campaignforcranbrook.org/page20.aspx to http://www.campaignforcranbrook.org/page20.aspx
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just added archive links to  on Cranbrook Schools. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100531121527/http://schools.cranbrook.edu/flash/cranbrook_place.pdf to http://schools.cranbrook.edu/flash/cranbrook_place.pdf
*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/5iVPWQMSX?url=http://cspa.columbia.edu/docs/contests-and-critiques/crown-awards/recipients/2009-scholastic-crown.html to http://cspa.columbia.edu/docs/contests-and-critiques/crown-awards/recipients/2009-scholastic-crown.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I took out one paragraph that seemed a bit too much, and softened some other language - the article seems pretty neutrally cast to me now, so I've removed the template, but wouldn't object if someone were to restore (so long as they identified what still bugs them!).  Thanks.  JohnInDC (talk) 13:58, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertising template