Talk:Gospel of James

message: User:Trc inserted the following: Catholic theology does not completely ignore extracanonical sources, which, "with unwarranted and legendary facts...[yet] contain some historical data borrowed from reliable traditions...."  His  quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia, is from the entry on St. Joachim, which also warns "If we were to obey the warning of St. Peter Damian, we should consider it a blameable and needless curiosity to inquire about those things that the Evangelists did not deem it advisable to relate, and, in particular, about the parents of the Blessed Virgin...." etc etc and much in similar vein. Does anyone feel this intrusion is helpful in this entry in any way? For an idea of User:Tnc's contributions, see Perpetual Virginity of Mary. Wetman 04:56, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: (It's "Trc".) The sentence you mention occurs in the article, but the paragraph in question is about sources of tradition, in effect, so a brief quote showing how extracanonical sources can influence tradition should be a help. Trc | [msg] 04:59, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: An apologia presenting the Roman Catholic Church's view of its uses of extracanonical sources would make an excellent entry-- elsewhere. There should be a link to it at the entry for Gospel of James. We look forward to seeing it. Wetman 05:03, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: The quote I have contributed is very relevant, showing how Catholic theology adapts extracanonical sources, in a paragraph about that very subject. Trc | [msg] 05:17, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: What I meant by that is that they aren't defined that way. As the quote offered in this entry shows, apocryphal material is incorporated into the Catholic theology. Trc | [msg] 07:32, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: While the Gospel of James has never been an accepted part of the New Testament canon, it does provide the basis for many of the hymns used in the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, and for much of their teachings concerning Mary.(edit:conversion script 25 Feb 2002) Catholic theology does not completely ignore extracanonical sources, which, "with unwarranted and legendary facts...[yet] contain some historical data borrowed from reliable traditions...." (edit: Trc 14 June 2004)
It may be fantasy. The quote about Catholic theology not completely ignoring extracanonical sources is true enough, but I would like to see some substantiation for "it [the Protoevangelium] does provide the basis for many of the hymns used in..." and "and for much of their teachings". The latter is conjecture and the former is something that ought to be localizeable in a book. For example, can anyone name a hymn that comes from the Protoevangelium? Or even "many of the hymns"? The "teachings" do not come from apocryphal documents, but rather the apocryphal documents reflect the teachings. That is a point of methodology. Trc | [msg] 01:18, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure about any of this, myself, though I have now added the edits where they first appeared in boldface. One, labelled "true enough" is actually from Trc himself. Very odd maneuver. A way to remove the first sentence, perhaps?... Wetman 01:37, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: "Interestingly enough" is such a tattered signal flag for POV irony, it's suprising how often it's still employed. --Wetman 07:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [Untitled]

message: The current article reads
"The echoes and parallels of the Old Testament appear to derive from its Greek translation, the Septuagint, as opposed to the Hebrew Masoretic Text, which is noticeable due to several peculiarities and variations present in the Septuagint. It apparently embellishes what is told of events surrounding Mary, prior to and at the moment of Jesus' birth, in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
This is problematic, because the Masoretic Text dates between 600-1000 CE (I am sure I have seen later dates from scholars as well) and the period that this article deals with is the mid 2nd Century, 500 years before the Masoretic text was even beginning to be "compiled."
Another issue is that the Greek Lxx text was used by Jews in the Diaspora who spoke primarily Greek, and so to claim that the use of the Lxx. somehow proves that it is a pseudographical work is stretching it.  The Lxx is used more often in the NT in quoting the Old Testament than the Masoretic related texts are.  I suggest some revision, but I am not sure what.Grailknighthero (talk) 23:20, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The earliest Masoretic manuscripts date from around 1000 AD (slightly earlier), but the text itself (the form of words) is far older - 90% of the Dead Sea Scrolls follow the Masoretic wording, not the LXXXAchar Sva (talk) 11:18, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Masoretic Text. 

message: :::„For example, the work suggests there were consecrated temple virgins in Judaism, similar to the Vestal Virgins in pagan Rome, this is unlikely to have been a practice in mainstream Judaism, but could possibly have been a practice within the ancient Essene culture.“
Where is the evidence to the proposed „example“ to this work? I would like to read it myself, if anything when I did read the Protoevangelium, the only thing I have read was that the character Mary was chosen, along with six other [a total of seven] „undefiled virgins of the family of David.“http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancyjames-roberts.html
If there is no evidence found, there is no value in this proposed connection of this article to the Vestal Virgins, and I will see that this „example“ is removed accordingly to Wikipedia's verifiability policy.
序名三「Jyonasan」 TalkStalk 06:29, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  1 Authorship and Date 

message: I'm puzzled by the statement:
:Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics argue that the Old Testament shows that consecrated virginity had been practiced in Judaism since the days of the prophet Samuel (1 Samuel 2:22)
The cited scripture verse is nothing to do with virginity, rather about serving women at the meeting tent who were sleeping with Samuel's sons. That the citation from catholic.com should use this to support the idea that "Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries" is even more puzzling - unless of course the Catholic translation of this verse is entirely different. Can anyone throw light on this? Chris55 (talk) 17:45, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Virgin or slut? 

message: #In what language did the composition originate?
#In what language is the oldest surviving fragments of the composition?
allixpeeke (talk) 09:20, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language