Talk:William Shakespeare

message: "William Shakespeare […] widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language and the world's greatest dramatist." 
Does anyone else, by any chance, has a problem with this introductory sentence? Is it not, out of courtesy, the common usage to say "one of the greatest (in the world)" for anybody who stands out among his peers (especially an artist), even when a large majority would admit that, indeed, this person is the greatest in their opinions. I find the turn of phrase way too definitive for an encyclopedia. 
I, for one, have seen plays written by Shakespeare and of course plays by other writers, and my take on it is that Shakespeare is not the author who moved me or impressed me the most. While writing this, I stumbled upon this very good article about what G. B. Shaw called "bardolatry". It is said in this piece that, among other great writers, Tolstoy, Wittgenstein and Voltaire not only didn't consider him the greatest, but disliked his works. 
In any case, I think the first sentence should be changed to "William Shakespeare […] widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language and one of the world's greatest dramatist", as I find the title of "greatest writer in the English language" not as outrageously presumptuous as the one of "world's greatest dramatist".
--Niouyouseur (talk) 15:40, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Fwiw, some earlier discussions:
* Talk:William_Shakespeare/Archive_22#Edit_to_Intro
* Talk:William_Shakespeare/Archive_22#Shakespeare's_Reputation
* Talk:William_Shakespeare/Archive_22#Is_he_widely_regarded_as_the_greatest_writer_in_the_English_language?
* Talk:William_Shakespeare/Archive_22#Yeah,_not_even_‘by_many’_is_accepted_anymore Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:16, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: "bardolatry" is the practice of deifying Shakespeare. The fact that a word exists for it means a lot of people have done it. This is actually evidence in support of the current language - after all, whether he is objectively the best (and you haven't suggested who is better) is impossible to measure, and we can only address what other people have said. The fact that he has a few (well, add millions of schoolchildren) critics does not negate the fact that he is widely considered one of the best and the best; and has been for centuries. Further, I fail to see a better solution: "Shakespeare was a pretty good author but Tolstoy thought otherwise" is probably not a great alternative. If we fail to measure his immeasurable impact on Western culture and the English language, we are concealing the truth. This conversation is stale, but I still thought I'd add this since I cleaned up some vandalism here. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia talk  20:31, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: George Orwell wrote a punctilious but quietly hilarious commentary on Count Tolstoy's pamphlet: 'Lear, Tolstoy and the Fool', in Polemic No.7 (March 1947), collected in Selected Essays (Penguin, Harmondsworth, 1957), retitled Inside the Whale and Other Essays 1962, ISBN 0-14-001185-4, pp.101-119, which is hereby commended to the reader. Noting that -- in Count Tolstoy's view -- Shakespeare ' "was not an artist." Moreover, his opinions are not original or interesting and his tendency is "of the lowest and most immoral"... Tolstoy adds on his own account that Shakespeare was a jingo patriot of the worst type' -- Orwell observes, 'But here there arises a difficult question. If Shakespeare is all that Tolstoy has shown him to be, how did he come to be so generally admired? Evidently the answer can only lie in a sort of mass hypnosis, or "epidemic suggestion". The whole civilized world has somehow been deluded into thinking Shakespeare a good writer, and even the plainest demonstration to the contrary makes no impression, because one is not dealing with a reasoned opinion, but with something akin to religious faith... As to the manner in which Shakespeare's fame started, Tolstoy explains it as having been 'got up' by German professors towards the end of the eighteenth century. His reputation "originated in Germany, and thence was transferred to England"... Goethe pronounced Shakespeare a great poet, whereupon all the other critics flocked after him like a troop of parrots, and the general infatuation has lasted ever since... Tolstoy was perhaps the most admired literary man of his age, and he was certainly not its least able pamphleteer. He turned all his powers of denunciation against Shakespeare, like all the guns of a battleship roaring simultaneously. And with what result? Forty years later Shakespeare is still there completely unaffected, and of the attempt to demolish him nothing remains, except the yellowing pages of a pamphlet which hardly anyone has read, and which would be forgotten altogether if Tolstoy had not also been the author of War and Peace and Anna Karenina.' Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:39, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

text: it's hard to see how he could be the greatest etc if his works are always only 'among the best' and not 'the best'.142.163.195.103 (talk) 10:03, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is he ''the'' world's greatest dramatist? 

message: "Greene's attack is the earliest surviving mention of Shakespeare's work in the theatre. Biographers suggest that his career may have begun any time from the mid-1580s to just before Greene's remarks." 
Should read 
Green's remarks about an upstart crow possibly refer to Shakespeare, the tigers heart line is from from HenryVI. It is not the first mention of Shakespeare's works, in Green's Menaphon 1589 Nash states "English Seneca read by candle-light yields many good sentences, as Blood is a beggar, and so forth; and if you entreat him fair in a frosty morning, he will afford you whole Hamlets, I should say handfuls of tragical speeches" (STC 12272,1589) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.121.35.105 (talk) 19:51, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Green's attack 

message: Audiobook of Mark Twain's "Is Shakespeare Dead?" --As a cub river pilot, one of Mark Twain’s masters was a pilot named George Ealer, who recited Shakespeare by the hour - from memory - and who was a virulent opponent of the notion that the Shakespeare plays and poems were in truth written by Sir Francis Bacon. At first, young Sam Clemens agreed with his teacher and boss, but he soon realized that it was no fun for the pilot to argue with someone who agreed with him all of the time. And so, young Sam Clemens became quite skilled in defending this position: He said he was not a Shakespearite nor a Baconite, but that he was a "Brontosaurian": he didn't know who did write them, but he knew Shakespeare didn't.
As Twain explained, "It is the very way Professor Osborn and I built the colossal skeleton brontosaur that stands fifty-seven feet long and sixteen feet high in the Natural History Museum, and is the awe and admiration of all the world, the stateliest skeleton that exists on the planet. We had nine bones, and we built the rest of him out of plaster of Paris. We ran short of plaster of Paris, or we'd have built a brontosaur that could sit down beside the Stratford Shakespeare and none but an expert could tell which was biggest or contained the most plaster."
Review: "[T]he entire audio book is a tribute to Twain's comic sense and word-play... If Is Shakespeare Dead? is one of Mark Twain's works that you've resisted reading until now, this audio book is an enjoyable way to experience one of Twain's last autobiographical writings.... Twain's words and Henzel's voice are at perfect pitch." (Kevin McConnell, in The Mark Twain Forum)_____. Is Shakespeare Dead? Narrated by Richard Henzel. (The Mark Twain in Person Audio Library, 2011)
GrandpaSnazzy (talk) 13:05, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This is mentioned at History of the Shakespeare authorship question, Shakespeare authorship question and Baconian theory of Shakespeare authorship. Not Mark Twain for some reason. What do you suggest we add to this article about it? Compare William_Shakespeare#Speculation_about_Shakespeare. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:36, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mark Twain's "Is Shakespeare Dead?" Audiobook 

message: The box says 3 May and the article says 26 April. Where did the 3 May date come from?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scotisle (talk • contribs) 18:51, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like someone decided to impose foreign, Catholic, dating. I have undone them. DuncanHill (talk) 19:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shakespeare's Death Date 

message: I am adding the information that Shakespeare holds the Guinness World record for Best selling playwright and that he is the third most translated individual author. বিড়ালতপা চক্কোত্তি (talk) 09:50, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO best removed per WP:WEIGHT/WP:PROPORTION. We already have "widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language and the world's greatest dramatist." Guinness is very meh in this context. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:59, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guinness World records 

message: It says “BaptiSED” when it should be Baptized. Jdietr601 (talk) 19:14, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi User:Jdietr601. Baptise is British English, Baptize is American English. As this is a British topic, we use the British spelling per WP:ENGVAR. If you're not sure of something on Wikipedia, you can generally find out by doing a search on the topic by putting WP: in front of your search term in the search box. So, as this is a question about spelling, you would do a search like this: WP:Spelling, and that would take you to a page about spelling on Wikipedia: WP:Spelling, with links to related pages. SilkTork (talk) 21:34, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Baptize is perfectly proper in British English, indeed it's the spelling used in the Prayer Book. DuncanHill (talk) 22:13, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's certainly the variant promoted by Oxford, but as it is a defiant variant, it is classed as the "Oxford spelling" to differentiate it from majority usage. My personal approach to spelling, punctuation and grammar is if the word and sentence can be understood, then there isn't a problem. However, I do aim for my own spelling to conform to majority usage in order to reduce the possibility for unease. Shakespeare, of course, was writing before Samuel Johnson doomed us all to a world where people chide and argue over ize and ise. Purely on a whim the great man decided that flour should be ground grains while flower should be the part of the plant which attracts butterflies. Until then, either could mean either. We don't have much hand written by Shakespeare himself, but we do have his signature - six signatures in fact, all spelled differently! Such was the freer, more liberal life before the shadows of Johnson and the great grammarians darkened our world. Vive la différence! SilkTork (talk) 01:25, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baptised or Baptized 

message: The influence section really seems to understate and downplay his influence on virtually every poet, playwright, and novelist in the English language for the past 400 years. True, the vastness of his influence is something gargantuan, but it should be noted in the lead, and expounded upon in the influence section. 
The lead should certainly note: "widely regarded as the greatest and most influential writer in the English language", even at the expense of "world's greatest dramatist", which seems slightly redundant when it's already stated he is the greatest writer in the English language. Thoughts? Michael0986 (talk) 21:28, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The Influence-section doesn't seem glaringly awful to me, but it can probably be improved like everything else. This is the "top" article, and influence has a separate article (can probably also been improved), and there are other spin-offs like Cultural references to Hamlet and St Crispin's Day Speech. Something like "...has made a lasting impression on later drama and literature" may be missing from the WP:LEAD, though. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:14, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

text: The article is not bad, still feels underwhelming for such a figure in history, but I guess it's an okay starting point. The influence section seems a tad lazy, noting a few great novelists who were influenced, when Shakespeare's influence is cast over literally every major novelist and poet since the 17th century, and well into the 20th century. His influence should be noted in the opening sentence in the lead, it goes in tandem with his status as the greatest writer. Michael0986 (talk) 21:07, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening sentence in the lead, and influence section. 

message: Is  Edward de Vere or William Shakespeare the same person. If not then the Wikipedian article is right and if both are referring to the same person then why there are two entries for the same person. These are what I tackled from the book  The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History by
Michael H. Hart. 
See entry 32 in the above book. Sultan Abdul sultan (talk) 02:49, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: According to page 7 in this book  Hart is an Oxfordian. de Vere is prominent on the List of Shakespeare authorship candidates. Does that help? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:34, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Shakespeare and Edward De Vere the same or not? 

message: You have not given a list of works by shakespare 2409:4053:E89:3488:0:0:5989:5A13 (talk) 11:14, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: See links at main article under the headings "Plays" and "Sonnets". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:01, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  List 

message: Surely this article is incomplete without mention of his lyrics, some of the most beautiful in any language. E.g., Take, O take, those lips away, O Mistress mine, Under the greenwood tree, Come away death, Full fathom five, Fear no more the heat o' the sun? Esedowns (talk) 14:11, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lyrics 

message: Did Shakespeare write the play Romeo and Juliet just for fun or did it have purposes and connections to his days 41.74.49.20 (talk) 16:53, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Check Romeo and Juliet, perhaps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:57, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shakespeare's main aim for the play Romeo and Juliet 

message: What are his books 2409:4073:2E85:5CF2:B5CE:EF35:4921:E9D1 (talk) 14:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Does Shakespeare bibliography help? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:49, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

text: His education level 41.121.127.38 (talk) 11:51, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  His books 

message: . 105.12.1.4 (talk) 14:34, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia has lots of those, see :Category:William Shakespeare Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:38, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting facts about William shakespeare 

message: If Shakespeare was born on 26th April 1642 (as stated in the article) and died on 23rd April 1616 (as stated in the article) then he was not 52 (as stated in the article) when he died: he died a few days before his 52nd birthday. At least one of those pieces of information has to be wrong.
86.20.64.62 (talk) 21:01, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The article does not say he was born on 26 April 1462. It says he was baptized on that date. It's likely he was born a few days before he was baptized. The article notes  monument which states he was 53 when he died. Presumably whoever put the date on the monument knew more that we do. Jc3s5h (talk) 21:34, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The monument states that he was in his 53rd year, not that he was 53. In other words, he was 52 when he died, and he had to have just turned 52, given his baptismal date. Tom Reedy (talk) 17:08, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age at death 

message: hello i would like to edit pls thank u. 9Obito (talk) 10:09, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:05, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 17 October 2022 

message: ISBN 9789464437539 2A02:A03F:80FA:1100:6D14:ACBB:BB1F:F956 (talk) 07:44, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 07:56, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 

message: The article does not say, as it should, that he's known by his momonym, Shakespeare.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.183.110.20 (talk) 13:11, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Who calls this his mononym? He's not Plato. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:11, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The '''mononym''' is "Shakespeare" 

message: Very minor issue, but if you feel like having an opinion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:09, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Talk:Shakespeare's will#Link to Shakespeare's Signet Ring article]] 

message: What was he famous for 5.107.234.224 (talk) 10:38, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Writing stuff. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:28, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: So true! LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 10:40, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous for 

message: i found a typo in the shakespear wikipedia page where it says he produced most of his work from:1589 and 1613 that is a typo because i looked it up and did my reasearch and its actually 1590-1611 so if i could edit i woul change that miss information. Chesse5000 (talk) 11:56, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lightoil (talk) 12:12, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I was about to ask the same question. The dating you object to has two sources, and although Chambers isn't very current, the other is. The dates of Shakespeare's latest works are thought to be those of his collaborations with John Fletcher. Which sources do you have which support the dates you prefer, please? You can check-out WP:V and WP:RS to get a sense of how Wikipedia handles these issues. AndyJones (talk) 12:20, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2023 

message: I propose changing to the second image (pictured right). The new picture is of a much higher resolution and gives a clearer impression of the building without the flowerbeds and other details in the first image. , since you reverted my edit, perhaps you have an opinion? 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 11:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image of John Shakespeare's house 

message: Can we give some thought to this paragraph?
::In 1623, John Heminges and Henry Condell, two of Shakespeare's friends from the King's Men, published the First Folio, a collected edition of Shakespeare's plays. It contained 36 texts, including 18 printed for the first time. Many of the plays had already appeared in quarto versions—flimsy books made from sheets of paper folded twice to make four leaves. No evidence suggests that Shakespeare approved these editions, which the First Folio describes as "stol'n and surreptitious copies". Nor did Shakespeare plan or expect his works to survive in any form at all; those works likely would have faded into oblivion but for his friends' spontaneous idea, after his death, to create and publish the First Folio.
The first two sentences seem to me to be correct. Given the context of the preceding sentence, perhaps "Many of the plays..." could become "The others..." (or "Most of the others..." to allow for Octavos [If indeed there are any to which this would apply, I haven't checked]). But more importantly:
*My understanding is that some of the Quartos are thought to have the King's Men's knowledge and approval (or at least may have done so) in which case the "stol'n and surreptitious copies" are references mainly to the bad quartos, not to all quartos. (Although, for fear of being misconstrued, I confirm I think we should say, correctly, that "No evidence suggests that Shakespeare approved these editions".) 
*As to the last sentence (with its "unreliable source") its opening clause ("Nor did Shakespeare plan or expect his works to survive in any form") might be more-or-less right with regard to the plays - I doubt it could honestly be said of the Sonnets. But it seems a very odd way to describe the publication of the Folio as "his friends' spontaneous idea". After all there must have been some quite serious commercial considerations, which I'm not saying we need to discuss, just that we shouldn't present it in language that makes it sound like a sudden whim.
Does anyone have any thoughts? AndyJones (talk) 09:22, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You certainly deserve one, but since I'm uninformed on this I'll trust you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:39, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll make those changes, now. AndyJones (talk) 12:38, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Good removal – I had been concerned of the NY Post being used in the first place, so its likely inaccuracy fits with that. – Aza24 (talk) 18:33, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quartos 

message: He was indian 111.93.187.213 (talk) 09:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely. So was Minha Lohsa. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:07, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnicity 

message: @Astrophobe, I agree with you , but this should have a place somewhere, Florida Parental Rights in Education Act perhaps? Here's more sources:. @Jenhawk777, any thoughts? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:24, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry, my mind is a blank! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:28, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably because of lack of Shakespeare in Florida... Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:32, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Florida 

message: I'd like to add an image and information about folio production and editions Southport1639 (talk) 20:08, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Southport1639, you can either become WP:AUTOCONFIRMed and WP:BOLDly edit the article yourself, or you can write your suggested changes with refs here on the talkpage. If someone else think the changes are good, the may do them at some point. Note that the folios have separate articles, too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 September 2023 

message: Been doing a bit on the Guildhall of St George, King's Lynn. Can anyone point me to any detailed academic discussion on the evidence for Shakespeare having performed there in the 1590s? Much appreciated. KJP1 (talk) 10:17, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @KJP1 If you don't get a good reply here, try Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities, often very helpful, I find. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:36, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: An excellent suggestion, many thanks. I shall toddle over. No harm asking in two places, I think. KJP1 (talk) 10:42, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guildhall of St George 

message: The redirect Shake spear has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Seawolf35 (talk - email) 22:23, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Shake spear]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Based on the information given on the Wikipedia page itself, Shakespeare was 51 when he died, not 52; he was born 26 April, 1564 and died 23 April, 1616. He was 3 days off from being 52. Please change his age when he died from 52 to 51 
("aged 52" -> "aged 51"). Spacebound5800 (talk) 02:52, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: He was baptized April 26.  His exact birthdate is unknown but according to the article is observed on 23 April.  RudolfRed (talk) 04:12, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

text: And of course, new year in Shakespeare's time was on 25 March. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:10, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2024 

message: change william shakespear to William Shakespeare Rileyrocker8 (talk) 13:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: The article you linked doesn't exist. User:CanonNi (talk|contribs) 13:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2024