Talk:Maine Coon/Archive 1

message: Re: the new external link (to the German breeder) - is it getting towards being advertising? Nickj (t) 23:07, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New external link 

message: What a fascinating article!  I have never seen a Maine Coon and I am just amazed that such a beautiful cat exists. Thank you for the picture of the Maine Coon cat next to the normal housecat. I did check the links, but do wonder if it would it be possible to find more pictures of the Coons along side their diminutive cousins?  :-) Aloysius Patacsil 04:59, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
:I have a picture of Maine coon with another cat, unfortunately it’s a rather large black and white mix breed of some kind that weighs about 15lbs… next to a pedigree (at least looks like a pedigree) Maine coon of 20lbs, obviously the difference in size is not striking. --BerserkerBen 01:03, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for the late response.  I'd love to see it.  Thank you. Aloysius Patacsil 17:58, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nice pictures 

message: An anon user posted this: 
   
"- A genetic predisposition towards hypertrophic cardiomyopathy has appeared in a portion of the Maine Coon population. If left untreated this condition can result in sudden death of what appears to be an otherwise healthy animal.   
-    
- Because many vets will only test for this condition if a heart murmur is detected (which is not a reliable indicator), Maine Coon owners should insist on regular cardiac ultrasounds of pets between the ages of 3 and 6, when the pets are at highest risk."
I have never heard of this and I wanted to see if anyone else had.  I reverted because I think something like this needs a reliable cite, because I know that with all pure breeds of cat (or dog) there are at least as many rumors of health risks as there are actual health risks.  Any info on this would be appreciated.Gator1 21:17, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
: Looks like it might be real - the primary health problems seem to be Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (google query), and hip dysplasia (google query). (Example of medical overview). And according to this site they occasionally also get Polycystic Kidney Disease.-- All the best, Nickj (t) 09:33, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Health risks? 

message: I added this picture, because it illustrates well, I think, the "mane" reference above and while the tri-colored cat was interesting, the white coon above (as well as the text) already illustrates that they come in a variety of colors, other than tabby.Gator1 20:50, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New picture 

message: I agree, you don't need the "over" in the weight section.  I've seen two or three 25 pounders at cat shows, and even here in Texas we haven't been able to grow a Maine Coon much bigger without being fat. Pschemp 06:40, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weight 

message: Now he's tying to delete the tmeplate after failing to get his way here. Gator (talk) 21:15, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a quick update: Somehow, despite a vote of 5 to keep, and 3 to delete, this template was deleted. This decision is currently up for review at Wikipedia:Deletion_review#Template:Commonsgallery, so if you would like to provide some input, please do so there. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 23:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TFD 

message: This article had a gratuitous amount of images, and was beginning to look like a dumping ground for pet photos. I removed several extremely poor-quality images with bad exposure and composition. I carefully chose and placed the remaining images to preserve both the widest variety of coat colors, coupled with the best photographic quality, and aiming for a balanced amount of one decent image per section. For a stub such as this, that is more than enough. VanTucky (talk) 05:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to add that having an image of a "Rare All White Maine Coon" as the primary image for the article is probably a bit misleading.  --Spam38 (talk) 10:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It at one point had a brown one. I think somebody swapped in a picture of their cat. Either way the "rare" tag is only visible if you look at the image's page. This sort of thing happens often in articles that use free images. People look at it and put in their own. It's why some of the articles have a huge gallery at the bottom. At any rate, white is not a normal color so it'd probably be best to move it, and put in a normal color. The old pictures are probably in Wikimedia commons.--Marhawkman (talk) 13:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Enh... that's kinda the point to free use photos. We might need to add a gallery at the bottom if there's too many.--Marhawkman (talk) 07:19, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, I don't believe the point of fair use photos is to overuse them and/or so that people can merely put up any photo of their own cat on Wikipedia. The page looks far too cluttered and the amount of pictures, in my opinion, interrupts the flow of the article. I also don't believe a gallery would be of any use either. This isn't a breeder's site. This is an "encyclopedia"...or so I thought. Not to mention that photo galleries are discouraged per WP:IUP. The article, to me, looks a hot mess; I suppose I will begin cleaning everything up (including the photos) and finding citations when I have a little more time available. However, I will try to keep as many of the images as I can. Maybe we can extend the article or find out why pictures of Maine Coons with "white boots" and "tufts behind the ears" are so significant to the breed. But thanks for your response. Let me know if you have any more thoughts. Ms. Sarita (talk) 09:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: honestly the captions were done by somebody who was probably bored. I don't really think they have any importance. Feel free to change them. Hmm... Maybe we should caption two to illustrate the difference between summer and winter coats. I don't the the Gallery thing as an issue. Why? Galleries are permissable if the galerry itself benefits the article. Here it would be a group of examples of what Maine Coons can look like. this would allow us to relocate all the pics that aren't really needed in the rest of the article.--Marhawkman (talk) 08:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  image cleanup 

message: The external links I removed from the Maine Coon article are not allowed at Wikipedia for several reasons: i) not encyclopedic ii) commercial iii) lack information to enhance the article iv) are on the blacklist Spam_Blacklist.   
Please do not put them back.  See Wikipedia:External links for more information, thank you Chessy999 21:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please stop abusing the spam blacklist. The pages you removed, are not listed on that list, otherwise it would not have been possible to enter them in the first place. I've left out the Burke's listing, as I *do* agree that it's low quality. The polydactyl page however, contains valueable information about polydactyls and is as such a reference and source for the article. I've changed the link to a subpage of the polytrak database, however, it would not surprise me if the siteowner changes that link back, as we're now deeplinking without the menu's. Tebokkel 07:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Chessy999 on those three links. The oral history doesn't belong, and the other two are inappropriate because the article already has links to existing wikipedia articles Polydactyly and Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Zubdub 09:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: I have observed that Main coons are incredibly friendly to stangers- unlike other cats that usual hide and run away from them.  Anyone feel that might be worth commenting on?Mdriver1981 20:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: no. it's a variable personality trait. unless you can find some documentation regarding this....--Marhawkman 22:42, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

text: No, this is not something that has been scientifically proven. I own a Maine Coon and he is not friendly with strangers at all; he is skittish and will actually charge and hiss/growl at some of them if he feels that they are a threat to himself and/or his owners (i.e., myself and my boyfriend). Although you have made an excellent observation, unless you can find a reliable source that notes this particular behavioral trait along with the breed of the cat, I wouldn't add it. Miss Sara G 23:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Here too, our 'coon is also quite skittish, though he will be very friendly to certain, seemingly random people. Friendliness is almost certainly an individual personality trait 71.156.103.213 (talk) 21:35, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Friendliness to Strangers 

message: Does anyone know why they do not like to eat alone?  I have a Maine Coon and he always wants me in the room while he was eating and they are very persistent and ignoring them simply won't do.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rebel.crusader (talk • contribs) 08:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: cats are social? it's likely a personality quirk.--Marhawkman 10:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Some cats just like to eat when the people they trust are around. When felines eat, that's one of the times when they feel the most vulnerable (because they're distracted). Having their people around them while they eat may give them a sense of security...it's like you "have their back" in case something were to go wrong. My Maine Coon is pretty independent (a characteristic I hear is pretty common amongst the breed) and will eat whenever he wants to, regardless of our presence. But we have noticed that most of the time, when we sit down to eat, he'll stop whatever he's doing/wake up and go to his food dish. Miss Sara G 12:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Our Maine Coon is also like this. We have her food bowl on top of the dryer (so our dog will leave it alone), the dryer being next to a toilet in our 1/2 bathroom. Whenever someone is using the facilities, Squirt loves to jump up to her bowl and eat. When the person is done with the facilities, she jumps down. DougSnow 11:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eating alone 

message: If Maine coons are not native to North America, what does it mean to say they are one of the "oldest natural cat breeds" there?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.242.164 (talk) 23:02, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I honestly don't know. A natural breed is one not carefully bred by people, but I have no idea whether this would be older than most.--Marhawkman 10:28, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oldest Natural Cat Breeds 

message: I removed the all white Maine Coon image from the lead infobox, and put it further into the article. I replaced it with the most common, a brown/grey tabby. The image is stunning indeed, but it is rare, and the article must lead with an image of the most common characteristics. It would be better to have an image with the whole body showing, purrferably standing. Showing all it's features-- ear tuffs, body shape, paws, tail, etc. ←Gee♥Alice 06:53, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Maine_Coon
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cat-MaineCoon-Lara1.png
Enjoy! I'm gonna use the Lara1 pic for the box.--Marhawkman (talk) 01:41, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

text: It's nice, but eyes are dull, and especially the tail is not in view at all. I brightened and clarified it. ←Gee♥Alice 03:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added one that shows the whole body with tail too. Not in the infobox, but under the characteristics section. At least there's one with the tail showing. I also removed the close-up of the red cat in the health section, it really didn't tell anything. But, I exchanged it to head shots of three show quality cats in its place. I also removed the one that showed the size difference, it was a nice concept, but the image is too small, cannot be clarified, it's out of focus, and too compressed. ←Gee♥Alice 03:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Aw... It was large enough to make a decent thumbnail. The other changes are nice though.--Marhawkman (talk) 05:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I know! I really didn't want to remove it. The concept is great, yes it's okay for a thumbnail, but I wanted to look closer, and assumed so would others. It can go back. I hesitated over and over and over again to remove it, so that might say something. lol. You want it back in? ←Gee♥Alice 05:12, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I forgot to mention the eyes too. I gave it back it's pupils, and tried to clean it up more. It says "reduced" in the image title, do you know if there is a larger one? Being reduced tells me there is one. I could fix it up much better if I had the original. That one looked like it was re-worked one too many times. What do you think? ←Gee♥Alice 05:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Erm did you resize it? the picture appears to be narrower now. I suspect it was initially uploaded at a larger size, and a smaller version was added. I've never seen it though. I don't think the original was reworked to make the reduced version just compressed(and not of a great quality to start with). It appears to be under unfavorable lighting and a rather hasty snapshot.--Marhawkman (talk) 05:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it's narrower because I cropped the right side to focus on the subjects, instead of more poorly lighted furniture. I agree it looks like a hasty snapshot, but you can do wonders with them if they are of a good size. With the exception of very poor focus problems. As that's of the NASA/CIA/FBI calibre of software. lol. I guess cropping off the right side wasn't really necessary, come to think of it, because it put the Maine Coon in the center of the image. <shrug> ←Gee♥Alice 06:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That looks good. Actually what I said earlier referred to it looking shrunken left-right.--Marhawkman (talk) 06:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

text: how's that?--Marhawkman (talk) 23:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks fine to me. :) ←Gee♥Alice 23:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rare white cat removed from infobox 

message: sounds like a maine-coon fan club and people just describing how much they love their cat and what their cat specifically does
"they may engage in mischevious behavior such as knocking things off of tables and counters"
24.16.192.56 (talk) 03:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: lol, true. I think most cats do that anyway. I'll remove it. ←Gee♥Alice 03:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This Whole Page 

message: "Maine Coons are similar in appearance to both the Norwegian Forest Cat and to the Siberian, however this may be attributed to convergent evolution — the shaping of unrelated species by similar environments, selecting for similar characteristics, resulting in similar animals." 
Evolution is a macroscopic change in a species. The processes of natural selection and selective breeding are distinct from evolution. The difference within cat breeds does not constitute evolution; in fact, they're all one species, if they had evolved they would be distinct species. This is not a case of convergent evolution. "Convergent Selection" if you must, but not evolution. 121.44.193.86 (talk) 09:27, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's the same process. Evolving doesn't necessarily result in the creation of a new species.--Marhawkman (talk) 08:16, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Convergent Evolution 

message: A summary of this article appears on a rotational basis in Portal:Cats under the "Selected breed" section. Any improvement to this article's lead section should be copied to the relevant entry on Portal:Cats/Selected_breed. --165.21.154.90 (talk) 06:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cats portal 

message: Why is the Rare White Maine Coon photo in the "Behavioral Characteristics" section? Im sure something like that says, "Rarely, a Maine Coon will turn white under periods of stress", or along those lines. Shouldent that be under "Physical Characteristics?"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.201.243.238 (talk) 00:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's there because the pics were scattered around the article. It's not really connected to that section. that particular cat was born white.--Marhawkman (talk) 08:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: is there any reason to deem it "rare" besides the photo-taker's high esteem/pride for his/her own pet?  While not exactly a dime a dozen, for a quarter you can find quite a few "rare" white maine coons everywhere. Tendancer (talk) 01:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not that hard to find a solid white cat. However, this particular breed has very few of them.--Marhawkman (talk) 13:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, but still, wouldn't it make more sense if you switched the picture of the white Maine Coon with the playful Maine Coon picture?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.31.222.139 (talk) 21:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Citation for that "rare" claim?  Smoke would be an example of a rare color in Maine Coons; white meanwhile, is a dominant color and common for this breed.  It seems most cat/dog pages are becoming too replete with folks posting pictures of + adding uncited claims as to the beauty/rarity of their own pet.  That's all well and good, but degrades the quality of an encyclopedic article. Tendancer (talk) 17:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well... I'm not entirely sure about that one. the breed standard pages never mention rarity. Breed history pages sometimes do though. The ones I've seen all state that Brown Mackerel Tabby is the most common color. Does this qualify as "rare"? Maybe, maybe not, but it means that pure white is abnormal.--Marhawkman (talk) 06:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: By that logic then all colors besides "brown mackerel" is "abnormal".  In short, there's no cite white is rare/unusual/abnormal--because it's false and white/pure white/adulterated white is a common color for Maine Coons.  It looks to me like it (among 4/5 others ones) snuck onto the article simply because some owners wanted to include thier pets' pictures on the page, and used things like "rare white" as a sophistry for inclusion.  198.185.164.128 (talk) 17:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually there's no reason NOT to let people put up pictures of their cats. Free use images are not restricted in their use. The only requirements are, not cluttering the article(we don't have that many), and being appropriate to the article(in an article on a cat breed any pictures of cats of that breed are acceptable).--Marhawkman (talk) 05:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I've also never seen a breeder page or breed standard page for a main coon that actually had a white cat.--Marhawkman (talk) 06:04, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: google "maine coon breed colors" and the very first page links to pics of white maine coons.  Google "main coon colors" and the very first page links to colors of white maine coons.  Sorry I just don't find that observation plausible, even if it satisfied WP:CITE and it does not ("i.e. I haven't seen a picture personally therefore it must be rare?").  This article is based served if we clean up the page and keep only pictures that satisfy breed requirements--as this is a page on Maine Coons, not "gallery of people's cats that look like maine coons". 198.185.164.128 (talk) 17:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I did. I see one white picture among several dozen. The other dozens were primarily tabbies. The one I found was listed as "best other color". So no, white is not a "common" color.--Marhawkman (talk) 05:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I don't see it as a problem. the pics AREN'T sorted by topic. --Marhawkman (talk) 10:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, that's all fine and dandy that you don't see it as a problem but why is it that in almost EVERY Wiki page, the pictures are sorted by section, but not in this one?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.137.4.37 (talk) 01:39, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a requirement. Pics that correlate to a specific section have been placed there. Others are just there for decoration.--Marhawkman (talk) 13:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  White Maine Coon Problem 

message: Fanciers.com says that most breeders believe the breed originated in matings between perhaps pre-existing shorthaired domestic cats and overseas longhair. CFA says that the most likely history is that the Maine Coon developed from the cross of domestic shorthaired cats and longhaired cats brought back by sailors in their travel. This book states that DNA evidence made it clear that the Maine Coon is a cross between the Norwegian Forest Cat and an extinct domestic cat. The current article reads like the Maine Coon's long hair is purely the result of selection pressure on domestic shorthairs. --Dodo bird (talk) 10:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, good, someone found the source of that statement. thanks for putting it back. :)--Marhawkman (talk) 10:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was there for a while, but user:4coons replaced it with a fact tag, asking for "Full citation... to actual source and documentation". What does that mean? --Dodo bird (talk) 11:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He's adumbass Read his talk page. citing a book is perfectly fine. HE can't read the book to confirm it, but that doesn't exclude it as a source.--Marhawkman (talk) 13:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: Please do not revert the article again, unless you have a fair reason of doing so (which can be discussed here or on my talk page). The image that you have selected is of poor quality and is not representative of the Maine Coon breed. In addition, the article also has plenty of pictures to substantiate itself and your addition throws the section off-balance and makes it look far too cluttered. If you have input, please let me know. I'm sure we can work something out to where we are all satisfied. Ms. Sarita (talk) 21:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:Dmanskater11|Dmanskater11]]/RedsoxRocker 

message: The revision of the article is currently underway. I am going to attempt to get this article up to GA status. I am revising everything, including prose, section naming, images, and references. I have been working on this for the past week and a half and will try to have it completed within the next couple of weeks (hopefully). If there are any suggestions you may have, please let me know here or on my talk page. Cheers! – Ms. Sarita Confer 00:44, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: did you add the army of "Citation needed" tags?--Marhawkman (talk) 06:13, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, I did. In the revision, I am working on finding citations for that "army" of necessary cite templates. That entire section had only four references supporting it, and the section below it has been tagged since June. As I was looking at that "army", it made me realize that the article needed to be entirely revamped. I was able to find many more references for the revision. – Ms. Sarita Confer 07:46, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revision 

message: The weight range given for females seems to be too low. Does anybody know whether this is the case?Boobaloob (talk) 16:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I have found, that weight for females is pretty accurate. – Ms. Sarita Confer 18:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size