Talk:Nazanin Fatehi

message: I deleted the "allegedly" from the phrase "allegedly tried to rape her". He did not try to rape her "allegedly". If so, she also killed him "allegedly". That is hypocritical. After all, she also was not alone but with her niece. --Aleverde
This page needs some serious WP:POV work. I took out the whole section on what you can do, which clearly should never be a part of a wiki article. The article is also missing a lot of info (including her full name). --Bachrach44 19:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There appears to be slightly more info at Nazanin Afshin-Jam (not the same person), if that helps at all. --Kickstart70-T-C 19:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ofcourse her full name has not be released to public as she was under-age when her "crime" was commited. I urge people not to disrupt the article by tags until it is half-done -- -  K a s h  Talk | email 20:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Disrupting the article does not include adding tags to it. That includes the links to other wikipedia sections I've just added and the 'citeneeded' for her use of a single name. The link you've now replaced that with does not give a citation which explains why she has to use a single name, which is why citeneeded was added in the first place. Remember, even though you are adding text to this page, you do not own it, and should in no way attempt to stop others from altering it in positive ways. --Kickstart70-T-C 20:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't realize her whole name hadn't been released - I apologize for that. However, the article needs some serious citation work and some more POV work (although the POV had gotten a lot better in the last few hours). For example, the phrase in a western country... is nothing more than conjecture, and the entire account of the story isn't sourced. --Bachrach44 22:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I removed the "western country" bit in favour of something I hope is less POV, and done a little cleanup. I don't want to step on the toes of LiveLife though. --Kickstart70-T-C 22:26, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are doing great with all the help. I added more text. Page has come a long way in only few hours since inception, that's great and I am learning too :-) LiveLIfe 23:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Her full name has been released: Nazanin Mahabad Fatehi. (See link nr 10 in the main article).
Can someone with more experience than me move the article to that name? Aeron 03:27, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, thanks for that. I've also removed the sentence stating that her name was not public. --Kickstart70-T-C 03:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full name released 

message: "It should be noted that the coverage of Nazanin's story has been one sided. No source has questioned her story. No source has reported what witnesses said about the encounter."
This is an un-encyclopedic comment. If there is a source to question it, we will include it, if there isn't we are not here to question it or make up a conspiracy theory. Wikipedia is not a soap box. -- -  K a s h  Talk | email 15:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy 

message: Work out your differences here. · Katefan0 (scribble) 22:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I posted above interview with Nazanin. Also here is a list of some of the major media coverages including CNN:  
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=74521094&blogID=125542994&MyToken=f3fbc5db-6146-49cc-8a87-02355b246847
If there were any resources besides Etemaad article would have been posted. What you see on main page and the sources that I posted is all that there is. LiveLIfe 22:22, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL issued its 2nd public statement addressing Nazanin; http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/iran/document.do?id=ENGMDE130532006 LiveLIfe 13:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: I've now unprotected the article as it's been nine days and the debate seems to have died down. The unprotection was requested at WP:RPP. If the article needs to be protected again, drop me a note. I also have the article watchlisted, so if edit warring flares up again, I'll reprotect immediately. AmiDaniel (talk) 23:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. --K a s h  Talk | email 00:02, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unprotected 

message: I found this sentence odd: "Based on the original Etemaad story, one of the boyfriends recall the story as..."  Who are the "boyfriends?"  They weren't mentioned previously and the rest of the article states that Nazanin was with her cousin.  I haven't heard of her having *any* boyfriends, let alone one that was at the scene. Childe Roland of Gilead 21:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Boyfriend? 

message: The article and the disambiguationlinks/descriptions are biased against what is currently known about the case. Once very long ago I attempted to change the article to match KNOWN facts rather than politically charged allegations but as long as the regulars here aren't convinced it will be allowed to drift again.
The link in the disambiguation page should clarify that the victim was an alleged rapist, NOT a confirmed rapist.
As for attackers, both Nazanin and her niece's boyfriends tell a story different story of them, neither of which imply that there was any intention to rape. This totally undermines the current article's basis:
((Both of the testimonials were found in the original newspaper article from Iran: http://save.nazanin.googlepages.com/original))
Samieh's boyfriend says: I have been friends with Samieh (Nazanin’s niece) for a few months. Roozbeh was also friends with Nazanin. On the day of the event, both Roozbeh and I had our motorcycles. Nazanin rode with Roozbeh and Samieh rode with me and we rode around Karaj together for a few hours and then stopped at the corner of a park. In an instant, three young men approached us in a threatening manner and said some horrible things to us. Then, Mohammad, one of those men, attacked us with a rock. Samieh got off of my motorcycle and approached the men to fight them. Roozbeh and I were both scared, so we got on our motorcycles to flee, and just as we got on our bikes, I saw one of the men on the ground bleeding.
Throwing a rock does not equal intention to rape. It is senseless violence, but not rape. The testimony also implies that after the stone was thrown, the GIRLS approached the men to fight them as their boyfriends were getting ready to run away.
Nazanin's boyfriend says: At 9:00 o’clock in the morning, me, Nazanin and Samieh and Hamid went out to have fun. We were standing in the corner of the park when, suddenly, three young men approach us in a threatening manner and said: What are you doing here? Then they said some really horrible things to Nazanin and humiliated her. One of the men pulled off Nazanin’s headdress and Monteau (Islamic dress), and that’s when Nazanin stabbed the boy once with a knife and injured him, which ultimately led to his death.
Both stories by two close witnesses show aggressive strangers but not rapists. It's a clear case of an out of proportion response that led to the death of a person. Based on this testimony, in any western court, Nazanin would NOT have been acquitted. In Canada, where I'm posting this from, she'd be charged with manslaughter (equivalent to third degree murder), assault with a deadly weapon and assault causing bodily harm.
Just a couple of points for whoever would be willing to rewrite the article to reflect what is known and documented, rather than based on politically charged sources such as IranFocus.
--Naked turk 02:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing can be done with the information you provide, because you provide no references to reliable sources.  We as individual editors are not reliable source ourselves.  We must, esp. in BLP cases, provide references to reliable, published English-language sources to make the points we wish to make. I will gladly add material from reliable sources. Otherwise, I concur that in such cases as there are counterclaims regarding the facts of a criminal case, until there is a legal finding that there was an an attempted murder or attempted rape, the word "alleged" should appear. Finally, Wikipedia allows editors to work without signing in.  The only bias that should be exhibited is bias against unreliable content, whether it comes from a logged or unlogged editor.  Le Prof  71.239.82.39 (talk) 16:34, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article exhibits bias 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 

message: Tags were added here because the very sorry state of the referencing and the prose detract from the very important topic of the article.  Best wishes, bringing it up to quality. Please see extensive bulleted comment above, from me, regarding the high standards required in referencing of BLP articles; note that myspace and blogs generally do not qualify as reliable references.  Otherwise, I will give time as I can, where value can be added by a good writer that is not a subject matter expert.   Le Prof  71.239.82.39 (talk) 16:24, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Important article, needs scholarly attention 

message: Please feel free to re-add these, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as in the case of the appearing External link to the ICI Radio Canada article), and along with this traceable description, a new, active URL.  Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article.  
*CNN report
*Amnesty international: Iran: Amnesty International calls for end to death penalty for child offenders
*Original Etemaad article in persian - go to 1/4/2006 archive- click on HAVADES
*Islamic Republic of Iran codes of laws with espect to women
*ICAE: International Committee Against Executions
*Phone interview in persian with Maryam Fatehi mother of Nazanin
*Website of Shadi Sadr the new attorney for Nazanin
*A song by Iranian band: Persian Princes about Nazanin
*Voice of America Television, Persian language program interviewing Nazanin Afshin-Jam
*Etemaad newspaper report of second trial - in persian - Go to 8/31/06 Archive - click on HAVADES
*Video collage about minors on death row in Iran with reference to Nazanin Fatehi
Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  All '''External links''' found to be dead, and not easily corrected, as of signature date, moved here 

message: Please only re-add this, with full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as in the case of the appearing External link to the ICI Radio Canada article), and along with this traceable description, a new, active URL, only if the black-list issue is resolved.  The blacklisted site is:
* uniDOTcc
Otherwise, the entry is not suitable material for a Wikipedia article.  
* Report of January 10, 2007 trial in persian
Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''External links''' found to black-listed sites, as of signature date, moved here 

message: Please only re-add these, with explanation of relation to article content. Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article.  
* Zahra Bani Yaghoub
* Delara Darabi
* Reza Alinejad
Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''See also''' links where relationship to article unexplained/unclear as of signature date, moved here 

message: Lede citation was made unnecessary by adding the information to the main text, with a verifiable citation. Background citations: Please feel free to re-add these, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL.  In the case of the Etemaad article, citation of a separate objective academic or journalistic translation is required (the googlepages web page is "Save Nazanin"), before its reintroduction as a citation here. Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings. 
Broken and / or incomplete and therefore untraceable citations (leading < removed):
* ref></ref>
* ref name=IranFocus>Iran to hang teenage girl attacked by rapists (January 7, 2006).  via iranfocus.com</ref>
* ref name=News24>Iranian woman to hang (January 7, 2006).  via news24.com</ref>
* ref name=METimes>Iran to hang woman who killed in 'self-defense' (January 8, 2006).  via metimes.com</ref>
* ref></ref>
Citation from googlepages, with translation by advocacy organization, which per WP, is too close to article BLP subject (leading < removed):
* ref name=EtemaadArticle>Etemaad article.  via save.nazanin.googlepages.com</ref>
Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 18:35, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede and '''Background''' citations found to be dead or otherwise inappropriate, as of signature date, moved here 

message: References to subject by first name (familiar) changed to last name, and references to minor niece by first name removed.  Reasons obvious.  Le Prof  71.239.82.39 (talk) 18:59, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  References to subject and minor niece edited 

message: Please feel free to re-add these, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL. Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Text being sourced is in non-italics, non-bold, followed by an m-dash, then followed by the broken/inappropriate reference. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings. 
Broken and / or incomplete and therefore untraceable citations, or citations where information in text not found in citation (leading < removed):
* Amnesty International began to lobby on behalf of Fatehi.   —   ref name=AmnestyInternational> Iran: Amnesty International calls for end to death penalty for child offenders. (January 16, 2006)  via amnestyusa.org</ref>
* In this and others public statements, Amnesty International addressed its concerns about the Fatehi case.   —   ref></ref>
* Azmudeh told Canadian Television (CTV) that had Fatehi been killed by a man, he would likely not have received a death sentence "[b]ecause the value of his life would be twice as much as Nazanin's."   —   ref name=CTVFormerMissCda>Former Miss Cda defends Iranian on death row. (April 10, 2006)  via CTV</ref>
* Nazanin Afshin-Jam initiated an appeal, the "Save Nazanin Campaign", starting a petition that attracted more than 330,000 signatures worldwide (January 2007), in an effort to save Fatehi's life.   —   ref>CNN 4/13/2006 REPORT on NAZANIN</ref>
Citation from blog post, and so not a reliable secondary source (leading < removed):
* Nazanin Afshin-Jam initiated an appeal, the "Save Nazanin Campaign", starting a petition that attracted more than 330,000 signatures worldwide (January 2007), in an effort to save Fatehi's life.   —   ref name=BeautifulBrainy>Beautiful, Brainy and Passionate about Iran. (April 10, 2006)  via azarmehr.blogspot.com</ref>
Le Prof  12.49.20.42 (talk) 23:22, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Public reactions...''' section citations found dead or otherwise inappropriate, as of signature date, so moved here 

message: Please feel free to re-add this, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL. Otherwise, the entry is not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Text being sourced is in non-italics, non-bold, followed by an m-dash, then followed by the broken reference. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings. 
Broken and therefore untraceable citation (leading < removed):
* Fatehi's case was scheduled to be reviewed by the Iranian Supreme Court the week following the original conviction.   —   ref name=YahooNews>Bodog Music Recording Artist Nazanin Afshin-Jam Pleas to World Media, Kofi Annan and the UN to Save the Life of Another Nazanin in Iran. (May 17, 2006) </ref>
Le Prof  12.49.20.42 (talk) 23:31, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Legal appeal...''' section citation found dead, as of signature date, so moved here 

message: Please feel free to re-add these, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL. Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Text being sourced is in non-italics, non-bold, followed by an m-dash, then followed by the broken reference. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings. 
Broken and therefore untraceable citations (leading < removed):
* Canadian activist Nazanin Afshin-Jam made a video appeal to Iranian officials 5 days prior to the re-trial.   —   ref></ref>
* She also released a documentary titled "The Tale of Two Nazanins". It featured Nazanin's family in Iran and an emotional phone conversation with Nazanin Fatehi from her prison.   —   ref></ref>
* The re-trial ended on January 14th with a unanimous decision by the 5 judges, clearing Fatehi of intentional murder, but ordering her to pay diyeh (blood money/restitution) for the death,   —   ref></ref>
Le Prof  12.49.20.42 (talk) 23:41, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''The Fatehi retrial...''' section citations found dead, as of signature date, so moved here 

message: Please feel free to re-add this, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL. Otherwise, the entry is not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Text being sourced is in non-italics, non-bold, followed by an m-dash, then followed by the broken reference. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings. 
Broken and therefore untraceable citation (leading < removed):
* In April 2007, Nazanin's attorney filed objection to the part of the verdict that required Nazanin Fatehi to pay the retribution.   —   ref></ref>
Le Prof   71.239.82.39 (talk) 23:59, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Release and appeal...''' section citation found dead, as of signature date, so moved here 

message: Besides the need for earlier contributors to review and improve the forgoing moved citations, there is now a need for someone with knowledge of Wikipedia reference formatting to look at the reference list.
The Amnesty and other references appear multiple times, and so can be re-formatted so the full reference text does not appear repeatedly in the reference list.  Le Prof  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.82.39 (talk) 11:55, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Was shown by a colleague how to do this—never again. In any case, the repeatedly used references appearing yesterday were reformatted, so today they appear once each in the ref list.  Le Prof  71.239.82.39 (talk) 23:19, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Call for reference formatting assistance