Template talk:Politics of Scotland

message: Since creation this template has carried an image of the flag of Scotland. User:Astrotrain has been trying to unilaterally, without explanation, change the image to the Arms of the United Kingdom. What do other users think? --Mais oui! 10:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is wrong with using the Scottish arms? - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 12:07, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We are using the Royal Arms in Scotland, which are actually still in use, as noted above. Astrotrain 12:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Politics of X templates I looked at show coats of arms. Is there any reason why Scotland should buck the trend ? Which coat of arms it should be can easily be determined by looking at official documents to see what they use. Angus McLellan  (Talk) 13:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd prefer the flag, which is symbolic of the Nation of Scotland, whereas the arms of the UK are the arms of the UK Monarch, with English bias. The Scottish Arms would be more acceptable than the UK Arms, but overall I'd say the National Flag would be preferable.  Canæn  06:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no reason why the Scottish Quatering has been removed in favour of the National Flag, when all the Courts, Parliament and the Executive use the Royal coat of arms of Scotland.  Now some Scots may feel that Scotland should be a republic but this is an encyclopedia meant to represent reality not political points of view.  Unless I hear to the contrary I will report the continued changes as a Point of View Dispute and request a formal vote with intervention from senior editors. Davidkinnen 21:55, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This all came up some weeks ago: we cannot use the "Scottish Quartering" in templates, because of image licensing issues. The UK arms were also removed from Template:Politics of the United Kingdom for this reason. Please see Template talk:Politics of Scotland#Free use image section, below. --Mais oui! 10:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  We cannot use the Royal Coat of Arms as it is Crown Copyright however I have changed it to the Scottish Executive's logo as this is the symbol of the goverment of Scotland. --Barrytalk 21:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  But Barry, the exact same rules apply to those Arms as they do to the Royal Arms: we cannot use them in templates. (In addition in must be pointed out that this template covers all Scottish politics, not just the Scottish Executive, which is only one topic in a very wide range of articles.) --Mais oui! 09:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not only was the use of the Royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom as used in Scotland not usable but using the Lion Rampant without permission from the Lord Lyon is a technically a criminal offence.  I will revert to the Flag of Scotland. Davidkinnen 19:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The offence is not 'use' or display but rather 'usurpation'. There is a very noteworthy difference. --Breadandcheese 14:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: I have been using the template in articles about Scottish Parliament constituencies. Not sure this is appropriate, as individual constituency articles are not listed by in the template itself. Is there a similar template, without This article is part of the series: (which seems to imply that the article in which the template appears should be listed as one of the series) and designed to sit at the foot of an article page? Laurel Bush 10:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template use 

message: I've switched the title of the Scottish Parliamentary Elections from General Election to Parliamentary Election so as to avoid confusion with the UK wide General Election for those not altogether familiar with the various elections present throughout the UK. There seems to be little activity on the talk page so I've made the changes but if anybody wants to switch it back and start a discussion, feel free. Kind Regards - Heligoland  |  Talk |  Contribs 19:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Elections to the Scottish Parliament are called general elections please see this discussion Talk:Scottish Parliament election, 2007#Is this really a General Election? and the Scottish Parliament election pages states that it is for the devolved parliament.--Barrytalk 21:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no consensus for the wording "General Election" on that page at all, the consensus, if anything points towards "General election to the Scottish Parliament" or some such similar wording. Kind Regards - Heligoland  |  Talk |  Contribs 18:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parliamentary Election 

message: Surely the offical name of "Scottish Executive" should be used rather than the unoffical term?
: Indeed it should, as it is the term officially used by the Scottish Executive and is the legal term (although some may dispute that it is used more widely than statute permits to refer to the entire Scottish Administration. --Breadandcheese 14:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the new official name is "Scottish Government", Scottish Executive is now confined to contracts and legislation. --Barryob  Vigeur de dessus 09:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Depends what you characterise as 'official' - legal documents, statute and so forth are all what I class to be official, and it's worth noting that HM Government still uses Scottish Executive. But of now Scottish Government is becoming more common in usage and is a term of self-identification, as such it should now be kept. --Breadandcheese (talk) 23:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scottish Government 

message: This is not the Coat of arms of Scotland it is the Coat of arms of the United Kingdom for use in Scotland, its use in this template is wrong --Barryob  (Contribs) (Talk) 20:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The template is Politics of Scotland not Politics of the United Kindgom, and the Scottish courts does not use the arms they use a different version without the flags the same goes for the Scotland office and the Scottish Government when it used them --Barryob  (Contribs) (Talk) 17:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is still the UK arms hence why it is not in the infobox in the Scotland article --Barryob  (Contribs) (Talk) 19:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Would the IP address please stop adding the UK arms into this template look at this discussion on the Scotland --Barryob  (Contribs) (Talk) 14:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

text:  That has nothing to do with this template. This template is for politics in Scotland and as pointed out above, all the political institutions use the Royal Arms.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.134.6 (talk) 14:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh its Politics and government of Scotland and neither the UK Parliament or the Scottish Government use those arms and the Scotland Office uses a variant. --Barryob  (Contribs) (Talk) 14:37, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  It has been pointed out that the institutions above use the Royal Arms: Queen, Parliament, Courts and Law- while the Government uses a variant. They do not use a defunct coat of arms. And all other politics templates use the coat of arms rather than a flag.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.134.6 (talk) 14:48, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

text: It does still not stop it from being the Coat of arms of the United Kingdom as for defunct arms you refer to that is not the case as its banner is still used by the monarch either the coat of arms of scotland get used or the Saltire anything else is just incorrect. --Barryob  (Contribs) (Talk) 01:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Are you saying that the coat of arms currently used is not the Scottish Royal Arms? Anyone can look at the evidence I posted to see that these are the Royal Arms actually used by the political instituions listed in the template. All other politics templates in Wikipedia use the Coat of arms in use, and Scotland should follow that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.158.68.27 (talk) 11:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it is the version of the Coat of arms of the United Kindgon that is used in Scotland just as the arms shown on the politics of the UK template is the version that is used elsewhere. --Barryob  (Contribs) (Talk) 16:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

text: All the courts in England and Wales and the UK Government use the other version of the UK arms does that make them the coat of arms of england and wales ? from the UK royal website  The Scottish version of the Royal coat of arms, and the Scottish Government does not use the arms. --Barryob  (Contribs) (Talk) 20:25, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

text: The Scotland Act 1998 makes no mention of what the arms of the Scottish Executive uses, the UK has two coat of arms  and  the latter is a version used by the monarch for use Scotland a stipulation in the act of union that the monarch have a Scottish version of the arms the Lion rampant shield remains the Cost of arms of Scotland hence why Banner of the Royal Arms of Scotland is still used by the monarchy again see this this discussion --Barryob  (Contribs) (Talk) 01:07, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arms  

message: I'm glad to see the return of the Scottish arms here, to bring us into line with other such infoboxes. However these seems to be a question regarding free use: it seems obvious to me that in the United States, which has no heraldic authority of laws, this is quite clearly an original work and hence properly licensed, freely. That was, after all, the reason the image was created in the first place. --Breadandcheese (talk) 13:57, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this issue has been raised again, any issues pertinent to heraldry - as the tags on the image make clear - are not matters of copyright. Moreover, the offence relating to use of arms in Scotland is usurption, not use. This is very clearly an original artistic work, under the same US copyright laws as everything else. There is no sensible dispute to be made as to its status or any of the other heraldic works on Wikipedia. --Breadandcheese (talk) 19:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arms - free image 

message: Why start the list of Westminster elections with 1997, rather than, say, 1708? Laurel Bush (talk) 10:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Westminster elections  

message: For some time this template has had the royal arms of Scotland as used by the government in Scotland, which is a variation of the arms used by the Scottish Parliament on its legislation. A nameless IP editor is adding the anachronistic arms of the medieval kings of Scotland before 1604, despite this being a template dealing with the Scotland of the past 400 years, and not of the middle ages and the House of Stuart's Scotland exclusively. I suggest this anachronistic nationalism should be stopped, and the official arms used by Scotland for hundreds of years both as an independent kingdom and as a nation in union be used. GPinkerton (talk) 10:11, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image