Talk:Minimal music

message: We need a better link; current links to producer of cat-dog, kids show.
:Wrong guy. It's been fixed now.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Hannan?

message: "No other late-20th-century musical style, outside of pop music, has occasioned so much controversy."
this is an opinion. it is non verifiable. end of story. also, as your username is "Kylegann" it appears that you are citing yourself as a source (conflict of interest?). T-1 20:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If not "so much controversy" then certainly it's generated "a lot" of controversy.  That wouldn't be difficult to cite, as there have been many articles and books about this controversy (generally the controversy has come about from composers and critics who dislike the style intensely, for various reasons).  Badagnani 20:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: that's fine, as long as it's cited. however, if someone says that it's the MOST controversial thing outside of pop music, that's very hard to cite for several reasons. Pop music by itself is a very iffy area. To me, something like Venetian Snares is not pop, to an academic, it probably is T-1 20:55, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Name another late-20th-century style that has occasioned nearly as much controversy, or I'll put it back in. And since I'm citing published academic texts, even if they are my own, I've been told by Wikipedia administrators that there's no problem. Kylegann 12:48, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The threshold of inclusion is of course verifiability rather than truth. However, it seems that there is some disagreement among editors. Where a fact is challenged, but supported by sources, the best solution is often to acknowledge the source more explicitly. Model: from "Football is the most popular sport (cite Albert Macdonald, 1923)" to "Albert Macdonald, writing in 1923, has stated that football is the most popular sport (same cite)". Notinasnaid 12:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Although I have great respect for Kyle Gann—and of course we all should welcome his expertise and his highly respected publications here—I have to agree with Notinasnaid.  Remember that the burden of proof lies with the person wishing to include material, so I think it is not fair to request that others "name another...style that has occasioned nearly as much controversy".  I personally do believe that the contested sentence is true and verifiable, so I feel that it shouldn't be too hard to cite a third-party source (to avoid any controversy or potential conflict of interest) or to word it in the way Notinasnaid has suggested.  VectorPosse 17:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That is a logical fallacy of burden of truth. Academic or no, not everything published in academic papers is worth putting in wikipedia as fact, see Scientific racism for an extreme example. But if you want to play that game, I'll point out breakcore, noise music, idm, ambient, death metal, rap music as all being several music styles that are extremely controversial. The definition of pop music itself isn't even clear enough to make the distinction. Some would call minimalism pop, some wouldn't. Some would call some of those genres I mentioned pop, some wouldn't. also, see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. this is completely a matter of opinion. The amount of perceived controversy also highly depends on the circles of people you communicate with. In the case of an academic, I can see this perception, but if you played to some random guy off the street some Phillip Glass and then you played some Venetian Snares, which would he find more controversial? I'm thinking the Snares. this either needs to be changed to something like "Kyle Gann has referred to Minimalism as the most controversial form of 20th century music" or just removed altogether. T-1 02:16, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the only reason for the qualification "except for pop music" (probably "popular musics" is a more accurate wording, as it would certainly include rap, death metal, and whatever other styles you're referring to) is to imply that it's the most controversial "classical"/"serious" style.  Minimalism isn't generally described as a "pop" style though of course numerous popular groups have adopted elements of it, so I don't believe this issue creates any confusion. 12-tone/serial music was also controversial, but it wasn't developed in the late 20th century, so the statement is probably correct.  One needn't throw out the baby with the bathwater, though Gann's repeated reinsertion of the self-referential statement, contrary to the consensus here is problematic, so saying that it is "perhaps the most controversial trend in the art music of the late 20th century," or even "has generated considerable controversy, probably more than any art music style of the late 20th century," with links to notable published essays and opinions on the subject, would be just fine.  12-tone/serial music itself generated quite a bit of controversy in its time, something that cannot be disputed, and it's interesting to note that minimalism, as a reaction against 12-tone/serial music, has occasioned a similar controversy--but generally from the serialists themselves, rather than from audiences.  Badagnani 03:39, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Minimalism sounds a lot more like Britney Spears than say Merzbow. Which would you call pop? Also, I would call Merzbow and other noise music controversial. Ditto for Venetian Snares and other complex glitchy breakcore. You can't measure or prove which is more controversial. Just because some music is made by people without phds does not make it any less serious or any less art. IDM its various spinoffs and relatives are more often than not about making art. T-1 18:38, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, minimalism shares a lot in common with pop music. But it is generally considered to be "concert"/"art"/"classical" music. Many of the 12-tone people (like Mel Powell, for example) were secret jazzers but consciously chose to never include any references to jazz or other popular musics in their pieces.  The early minimalist composers listened to jazz, rock, Indian music, etc. and often put elements of those styles into their pieces.  The truth about Merzbow is that he/it generally ignored by the classical music establishment because he/it isn't considered "concert" electronic music.  I don't believe noise/electronic music has occasioned as much controversy as minimalism.  Come to think of it, John Cage's music has probably occasioned the most criticism of all (and some of his music, like the silent piece, "Cheap Imitation," "Dream," the String Quartet, etc. is very minimal), though the height of this criticism was probably the 1950s through the 1970s.  Badagnani 20:46, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I read somewhere about Snares being played at a rave one night and then in a concert hall filled with academics the next night... valid enough. Snares is pretty controversial with all of the pedophilia images present in Doll Doll Doll or Horse and Goat for example (and that's just the tip of the iceberg). T-1 22:23, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

text: If we're quoting Wikipedia policy, let's not omit rules inconvenient to bring up: "When someone makes an edit you consider biased or inaccurate, improve the edit, rather than reverting it." I made an improvement in the case of every alteration I made; this anonymous T-1 person did not. I also discussed changes I wanted to make on the talk page before making them; "T-1" did not. Kylegann 21:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

text: You added a citation to yourself. I don't call that an improvement.T-1 21:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: that is nonverifiable

message: where can i find a decent website about steve reich, john adams and/or philip glass?
:First try the "External link(s)" sections of Steve Reich, John Coolidge Adams, and Philip Glass. Hyacinth 19:38, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Websites

message: I've created a  template feel free to add other important examples of postmodernism - broadly defined - in this template so that readers can gain a better understanding of the terms involved by comparing and contrasting their use over several articles. Stirling Newberry 17:30, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Postmodernism series 

message: I'm moving the following here to be reintegrated as Klein is not a composer and this was in a list of composers:
*Yves Klein, whose 1947 Monotone Symphony consisted of a single sustained chord, predating similar works by La Monte Young by several years.
Hyacinth 06:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your proposal for reintegration?  The work is conventionally notated and Klein is as much of a composer as Tony Bennett is a painter :)  There is such a thing as a "Renaissance man," you know.  There are actually a number of the early minimalists (Charlemagne Palestine included) who were primarily visual artists or sculptors.  Please consult the original work (it can be found reproduced in coffee table books about Klein) and re-add.  I didn't include the ref frivolously.  Badagnani 06:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You'll find my "proposal" above. Where did I write that it was frivolous? Hyacinth 07:07, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Above where? Sorry for assuming, there are so many people here at WP who are quick to delete things and I wanted to be sure you understood that this is an important work closely tied to this aesthetic movement (though little known, that's why I added it). I suppose you could say Klein was "primarily a visual artist" or something similar. Badagnani 07:15, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Klein

message: My vote is for Lucier to go in the "early minimalists" list. Hyacinth 07:10, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, he's at least as early as Glass.  Glass told a friend of mine in an interview that it was just a fluke he got famous, and not others like Lucier (he also named some others I can't remember).  Should we have criteria for "early"?  Such as active in minimal composition before 1975?  If so, maybe add this date range in the heading.  Date of birth isn't as relevant matter because some like Andriessen started out as 12-tone guys.  Badagnani 07:15, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: At issue may be to what extent Lucier is a minimalist composer as opposed to a composer who produced a few seminal works which can be considered minimal.  --Myke Cuthbert 19:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

text: "Proto-minimalism"? I've never heard this expression, but if you have got reliable sources, by all means add something about this. (Do Wagner and Bruckner count, as well? I'm thinking of the beginning of Rheingold and the first twenty pages or so of the scherzo in Bruckner's Ninth Symphony, but has anyone actually cited these as precedents for minimalism?)—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:44, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't heard much Bruckner, I'll have to check it out.  As far as sources, I do recall reading the term "protominimalism" as applied to Satie and others, about a year or so, though I don't recall if it was from something very academic.  Hopefully I will come across it again. 24.20.12.57 (talk) 07:07, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Early

message: i think minimal music refers more to a sub-genre of electronica.
maybe there should be 2 separate articles.
Unixer 14:18, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do other people think this? Can you name some examples (bands, composers, pieces)? Hyacinth 13:04, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly not.  There may be a confusion of two different genres using the same terms.  Every book published about "Minimal Music" that I am aware of refers to the contemporary classical genre associated with Young, Riley, Reich, Glass, Adams, et al. (authors: Potter, Fink, Strickland, Schwarz, etc.) --Myke Cuthbert 19:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  confusion 

message: *"The music of these three composers, hence, represent three radically different interpretations of what "minimalism" means: While the music of Steve Reich has distinctly "mechanical" tone, the music of Philip Glass has a significantly "flatter" texture and is more homophonic, with more of an emphasis on "vertical" elements (i.e. chords and cadences). Adams' minimalism, however, is significantly more complex than that of his predecessors: being far more rhythmically and harmonically unpredictable."
I removed the above as it doesn't end up discussing interpretations of minimalism but instead promoting Adams. Hyacinth 19:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed

message: removed: "Edward Richardson - a child prodigy who is widely believed to be one of the greatest composers and musicians of his time," which is clearly bogus. If not, please provide supporting info.Funks 18:36, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Minimalist Composers

message: I removed the Schumann reference, which is dubious at best despite the link offered.  If we want to get into that kind of history, we need to also include Perotin, Bach canons, Wagner, Satie, Scelsi, etc.  As it stands, we seem to be after the history of the "minimalist" movement labeled as such. Funks 02:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Brief History Of

message: "The Grim"? "The Grim" is a minimalist composer? Googling unearths no such entity, and I'll remove the reference unless supporting info is offered. 
Also, Jonathan Bernard's 1993 article "The Minimalist Aesthetic in the Plastic Arts and in Music" unpersuasively trashes the idea of musical minimalism and really isn't worth including here.Kylegann 05:17, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Additions

message: *This list seems to be entirely speculation and not useful/informative in any way.  This list could potential be thousands and thousands of artists long.  Could it be removed?  Wickethewok 06:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree, as stated above in the "Influenced By" discussion, that the list needs to either be removed or seriously pared down.  If we pare it down, I would propose keeping only the following on the list, since they seem to be most directly linked to the "Minimalist" music movement: [ Can, Brian Eno, Kraftwerk, Neu!, Spacemen 3, Stereolab, Sufjan Stevens, The Velvet Underground ]  But, frankly, I agree it's still a rather useless list and could easily be removed.  If someone wanted to write a subsection of this article discussing minimalist influences in popular music and vice versa, that might be a worthy inclusion. Funks 18:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, my edit was instantly reverted by someone I'm not sure how to contact, so I guess I'll try to pare it down to the bare minimum instead...Funks 20:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Not sure how to contact? No talk page? Anw, let's discuss a little such large edits. Dr. Who 20:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  To reiterate again... I agree with the users above that this list could potentially be thousands of entries long, based on a loose definition of "minimalism" that could apply to almost all popular music.  So why include such a useless list here?  And even if we did, why are we not requiring any kind of supporting references establishing a legitimate connection with the "minimalist music" movement described in the article?  Including artists like The Who and Cat Power in this section harms the credibility of the entire article, in my opinion.  That's why I think this section should just be deleted and/or seriously reduced. Instead, people keep adding entries to the list unabated and without justification.  I guess I will leave it up to the Wiki powers that be... Funks 22:16, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's work here in the talk page, it is my favourite method. Who are the artists that you want to include? With regard to the draft list you mention above, I would add some german electronic musicians. Let's avoid (and we are doing well) edit reverts, edit war, and similar timewasting activities. Happy editing. :) Dr. Who 22:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Popular music influenced by minimalism

message: I moved Ian MacDonald's idiosyncratic interpretation of minimalism from the section on musical style, where it did not belong, to the section on "Critical Response." I also deleted the sentence, "From hippie to yuppie.minimalism is a drip-feed pseudo-art for cultural bottle-babies" for its argumentative POV - also for its problematic grammar and lack of literal meaning. Kylegann 20:58, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would also remove about half those composers whose names are on the list of minimalist composers. Many of them, like Petr Kotik and Jo Kondo, aren't minimalists by any stretch of the term - some of them are Fluxus composers, or people who returned to simple tonality under minimalism's influence, or postminimalists. Criteria for the list are ridiculously inconsistent, just dozens of people adding their seemingly favorite composers. Cardew? Moondog? Zimmermann? Subotnick? It's ludicrous. Kylegann 03:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An argument could be made for Moondog/Hardin, though more appropriately as an "early influence"/"precedent".  Otherwise, I agree -- get these people off the list, it is not helpful or relevant to the topic...!! Funks 17:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, and Lief Inge as a precedessor of minimalism when that piece came out in 2004? Thanks for the deletion. Kylegann 21:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Critical response and POV

message: This blanking is not good, as this is a key facet of the reception of minimalism, well documented. Badagnani (talk) 20:39, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's so well-documented, why hasn't anyone been able to come up with a source for nine months? I haven't been able to find one, but if you can do it, please restore the text, with appropriate citations (it may well take more than one, because there are two contrasted points of view in that material). Just one other thing: removing a single statement does not constitute "blanking". See Wikipedia:Glossary#B. Calling such an edit by the name is provocative and borders on incivility.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blanking 

message: Since I don't know a lot about the technical aspects of categorizing music, I thought I would ask on the discussion page what people thought of this.  Could certain popular contemporary pieces of music, like Clocks for instance, be considered minimalism?  The article describes the musical structure as "built around a repeating piano riff, it features a minimalist soundscape of drums and bass over an aura of synthesizers and strings."  There are a lot of songs by Coldplay that have this element to them, and I'm sure there are plenty of other groups that are also like this I don't even know about.  But would this merit inclusion in the article about minimalist music?  I wasn't sure, but I thought it would be worth throwing out there.
BTW, I did notice the above section referring to something similar to this.  Perhaps it could be rewritten to explain minimalism's influence rather than simply cite examples?  Unixfanatic (talk) 19:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Minimalism is a genre that began in contemporary classical music, but which has also clearly exerted influence on other genres, most notably rock. Badagnani (talk) 19:35, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Certain Modern Pop Music as Minimalist? 

message: Not sure it was a good idea to remove Hugh Shrapnel from the article. Badagnani (talk) 17:41, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I merely removed the redlinks. If you find Hugh Shrapnel notable, then please create an article for him, and restore him to the list. I have just done this for Terry Jennings.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:57, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hugh Shrapnel]] 

message: Seriously. An article on minimalist music, and not one mention of the minimalistic black metal movement, such as Darkthrone or Burzum? Not one? 216.209.117.168 (talk) 20:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Until early March 2007 there was a huge section listing pop bands influenced by minimalism. It was deleted after considerable discussion on grounds that it amounted to little more than trivia. See the sections Popular_music_influenced_by_minimalism and Certain_Modern_Pop_Music_as_Minimalist?, above.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:24, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I just listened to some Darkthrone on YouTube and it doesn't seem particularly minimalist; it sounds like regular metal music. It doesn't seem to be influenced by the minimal aesthetics described in this article. Badagnani (talk) 21:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Anything off of Darkthrone's Transilvanian Hunger, shows massive minimalistic influences. Extremely simplistic song structures, a beat that stays constant throughout the whole album (let alone song), no tempo changes, songs that use only 2 or 3 riffs throughout, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transilvanian_Hunger 216.209.118.29 (talk) 23:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I wonder how this all adds up to influence of minimalism? I can think of a lot of pop songs dating back as far as the 1890s that would fit this description (apart from "constant beat throughout an album", since albums are a comparatively recent phenomenon).—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I kind of like black metal, and I've never heard of "minimalistic black metal". To be sure, some black metal (like Darkthrone) is sonically minimal, but by no means influenced by Young, Riley, Glass, Reich, et. al. However, drone metal, surprisingly enough, is actually a fusion of minimalism and heavy metal (with some black metal elements). Rhys Chatham, for example, has participated in the style. Aryder779 (talk) 02:03, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Article completely misses a genre...

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Michael Nyman-Gattaca-The Other Side.ogg

message: No, I'm not kidding. It's a term that's thrown around a lot by people involved with both of those genres. Black metal has almost always been minimalist in nature since it's beginnings in the late 70's-early 80's. Of course there are bands that go outside that, but most bm and ambient music is minimalistic. 165.196.83.30 (talk) 17:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I just saw that it's kind of been talked about before, I guess. I still think it's worth a mention. Right in this article it talks about how minimalism fits a larger definition and scope than most realize. Many artists from completely different genres can be minimalistic. I'm surprised this hasn't been talked about further. Both fans and members of bands within the bm community have talked about minimalism since the 80's. That's what most bm IS. Dark, mysterious, simplistic and emotive. There's even a lot of use of minimalistic art within the genre for album covers, etc. Bathory, one of the earliest bm bands in the early 80's even talked about minimalism in interviews. Both the physical art form and music form.
I know it was mentioned but Darkthrone is a great example of minimalism.
Ambient shouldn't have to be argued at all. It just IS minimalism for the most part. 165.196.83.30 (talk) 17:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about minimalism in the [[black metal]] and [[ambient]] genres? 

message: Yes, Badagnani, if I had "only taken thirty seconds to check the reference"—that you only added afterward. It is a good reference, but please in future try to add the reference at the same time that you add new information.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 04:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's no problem but I thought it was generally known that a tambura was used in that song. We don't always source every sentence of every article, at least not initially. Badagnani (talk) 04:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

text: "Indian drone music" is simply a fairly general shorthand for the drone-based music called "Hindustani classical music" or "Hindustani raga" (which had a significant influence on La Monte Young, Terry Riley, the Beatles, the Doors, et al.). One could simply have substituted that term and maintained the original meaning. In fact, your current verbiage obscures this original meaning. Badagnani (talk) 15:13, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

text: It's pretty clear that the drone element of that music was one of the aspects most intriguing to Western musicians of the time (and one of the easiest to imitate). One can even hear it in the Velvet Underground's "Heroin" (John Cale had earlier played drones on his viola in La Monte Young's ensemble). Badagnani (talk) 19:50, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Very good points. Badagnani (talk) 05:23, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 30 seconds

message: I notice that User:Badagnani has placed a hidden-text note against Roberto Carnevale's name, to the effect that his own Wikipedia article does not mention minimalism as one of his stylistic attributes. To judge from the two score samples in that article, his style seems very remote from minimalism, indeed. It appears that the assertion stems from the Wikipedia article on the Kronos Quartet, possibly bolstered by the Terry Riley article. It is difficult to judge whether numerous blog and publicity sites are simply mirroring the Wikipedia article on Kronos, or if there may be a common source in there somewhere, but in any case it not sourced in the Kronos article and I do not find a reliable source elsewhere to verify this. It could well be nothing more than an often-repeated mistake stemming from a careless association made by a Wikipedia editor. Kudos to Badagnani for spotting this probable error.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Roberto Carnevale

message: An anonymous contributor has added Keith Kenniff at the top of the list of "Notable Composers", i.e. out of alphabetical sequence.  I cannot find any non-promotional information about this composer.  Can anyone vouch for his notability? --Deskford (talk) 15:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No response, so I'll remove it. --Deskford (talk) 18:53, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keith Kenniff 

message: What, why, how, and where does this article need additional citations for verification? Hyacinth (talk) 17:15, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I took your question as a notification of the fact that you had just finished a major cleanup of citations in this article, and I removed the banner accordingly. You must surely know you've done good work but, if I were in a similar position, I too might hesitate to remove such a banner on my own, when the article is long enough that some doubt may remain whether I have addressed all the problems spotted by other editors. A second pair of eyes is always useful in such circumstances.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:54, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional citations

message: Can anyone justify this claim?  Philip Glass is about as popular as a contemporary composer can be.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.99.210 (talk) 03:51, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is probably with the word "mainstream", which is defined in very different ways by different people. Personally, I think that a piece of music that has won a Pulitzer Prize and has been released on a major record label qualifies as "mainstream". Not everyone would agree.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 04:14, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Low Mainstream Popularity?   

message: it struck me that the term "minimalist music" is incorrect. It seems the original term, "minimal music," after Nyman and Mertens, is used more widely.For example: 
:"minimal music" v "minimalist music," common usage survey based on search hits.
:google -> 908000 to 221000
:google books -> 10400 to 2870
:google scholar -> 1010 to 596
:JSTOR -> 212 TO 126
:Perspectives of New Music (journal sample) -> 15 to 5
:Fink (2005)    (recent publication example) -> 79 to 14
I feel it would be appropriate to change the title accordingly and will do so unless there are any good reasons not to. Only instances of the expression "minimalist music" will change, the term "minimalist composer" remains. Any thoughts on this? --Semitransgenic (talk) 23:53, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The term Terry Riley prefers is "Psychedelic music", and it is far more accurate. Anything by these "minimalist" guys is such a note soup that to call it "minimal" is a joke. The term "psychedelic" fell out of favor with the elites around 1968, when it was appropriated by the proletariat, so a new term was invented. The term "Minimal music" is even stupider, minimalist music is the common usage, although almost no-one self identifies as minimalist. If you want a real minimalist, John Cage is probably the closest thing you'll find in music.69.22.238.161 (talk) 01:30, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article title: change to "Minimal music" 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I have reverted User:Gentlecollapse6's change of the article title to "Minimalist music". This was the former article title, changed to "Minimal music" after a brief discussion in 2011 (see above). It seems to me that reverting a previous change should be preceded by a discussion, and consensus of the editors working on this article.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 07:35, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Article title

message: See: Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2020 May 11#Michael Byron (composer). Hyacinth (talk) 21:01, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Michael Byron