Talk:Radhanite

message: An excellent article.--Wiglaf 19:56, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment by [[User:Wiglaf|Wiglaf]]

message: ok, I don't know a lot about the Radhanites, but, this I do know about the Roman Empire. Over 100 years BCE the Asians in the area of Modern Day China, the Han Dynasty folks, began -what I like to call- the "Silk Road" which led to them trading with the Romans who are considered Western by most people. Did the Chinese cease that trade?  The answer is no, thus the statement "The Radhanites were the first Westerners to establish trade with China in centuries" s wrong.  Also, "Many historians believe that it was these Jewish merchants, not Chinese prisoners-of-war, who introduced the art of paper-making to the Caliphate." is unsourced, speculative and odd.  Chinese traders did come west, and the Radhanite folks were not the only ones going east, so the suggestion that the only possible way of paper-making getting to Baghdad was via the Radhanite
or the POWs is dishonest and wrong. "Historically, medieval Jewish communities used letters of credit to transport large quantities of money without the risk of theft. This system may have been pioneered by the Radhanites; if so, they may be counted among the earliest modern bankers." - Incorrect, recommended reading = anything of the asian/Chinese banking systems and also the Pre-modern Banking set up in the Delhi Sultanate (There are books on that that are amazing to read).  In short, source all claims made. --Irishpunktom\talk 16:07, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The Radhanites, of course, would have predated anything that came out of the Dehli Sultanate. As for China, you are welcome to enter your own <cited> retort to the now-cited references to Jewish credit systems. RadhaniteBriangotts (talk) 03:35, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  The system of banking used in the dehli Sultanate was far similar to what we would understand as banking than what the nice Radhanite folks had set up.  The Chinese financial system is well documented, using leather then paper as representatives of held deposit wealth over 700 years before the Radhanites traded their first slave.  Banking as a system is old, a lot older than the Radhanites and has existed probably, in one form or another, since man could count.  This piece reeks of Ethno-centric POV meanderings, and could do with a cleanup. --Irishpunktom\talk 20:36, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You asked that I cite sources, and I have. If you wish to challenge them do so. But you had better cite your sources and they had better be from reputable publications. The fact that the article doesn't comport with your understanding of the world does not make it an "ethnocentric POV meandering", and I'll thank you to take a more civil tone in future.Briangotts (talk) 21:21, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I thought I was more that Civil, "ethnocentric POV meandering" is hardly personal abuse, it is my observation.  Here is a source for the bank set-up in China - It includes the quote "It is however in China that the use of paper money was most fully developed in early times. More than a century before the Christian era, an emperor of China raised funds to prosecute his wars in a way which shows that the use of leather tokens was familiar to the people." Era.  It includes the same speculation as I in so far as it speculates on the origins of banking, but the point is the idea that the Radhanites were the earliest bankers is simply wrong. --Irishpunktom\talk 18:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

text: That doesn't stop it being False.  They were not Modern in any concieveable fashion and were not early either.  Its simply not true. --Irishpunktom\talk 16:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If that is your problem with the article, I expect you will be withdrawing your opposition to featured status based on the latest changes. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 17:14, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: First Problem

message: Someone, please enlarge on Gumilev's opinion that the Radhanites were shadowy architects of the early Russian foreign policy who stood behind Rus' early campaigns against their chief trade rival, Byzantium --Ghirlandajo 14:33, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What work is this in? Gumilev had many theories with somewhat dubious factual support, to put it mildly. His belief that Khazar Jews oppressed and exploited hard-working Slavs was the product of old-fashioned anti-Semitism. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 05:35, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Lev Gumilev]]

message: This seems strange for a name. Should it be "one who knows the way"? jnothman talk 06:25, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "one knows the way" 

message: Thoughts on including "external links" to the article?   Tomertalk 11:11, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: I removed this sentence, which was the final sentence of the article:
:For the Jews, it marked the end of the golden age of trade and the beginning of a long period of systematic persecution and victimization.
I don't see how it contributes to the story of the Radhanites, and I find it unsettling in its broad, sensational and unreferenced comment on a vaguely defined period outside the scope of the article. --Tsavage 22:34, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed sentence as POV and unsupported: Jan 3, 2006 

message: What are the "limited number of primary sources" that use the term Radhanite? --Iustinus 18:08, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primary Sources 

message: I don't claim to be an expert.  But I would also question the assertion that Rome really means Constantinople.  Besides the fact that Constantinople is already mentioned by its real name, I don't see how a route from Constantinople through the land of the Slavs and the Khazars makes sense as a way to get to Central Asia.
The article refers to Yehuda ben Meir of Mainz and his identification of Przemysl and Kiev as trading sites along the Radhanite route.  In fact, the connection between these two sites is the most likely one for a route between the land of the Slavs and the Khazars.  A plausible route starting in Italy would be Venice, Regensburg, Prague, Krakow, Przemysl, Kiev, and on to the Khazar capital on the Caspian Sea.  The route includes major sites for trading with Slavs that are known to be important in the history of European Jews and provides a geographically reasonable overland path for making the trip.
DnJake (talk) 23:15, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Behind Rome to the capital of the Khazars 

message: "During the Early Middle Ages the Islamic polities of the Middle East and North Africa and the Christian kingdoms of Europe often banned each others' merchants from entering their ports."
the article defines the "Early MIddle Ages" as "approx. 500-1000", so what exactly are these "Islamic polities of the MIddle East and North Africa" doing,  centuries before the existence of Islam, or the birth of Mohammed, and before even the start of the first Crusade?
for a history article, such loose terminology, no matter how politically correct, or pretentious, is incorrect.
76.10.162.230 (talk) 00:43, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  timeline? 

message: Just found out there's a book called The corrupting sea: a study of Mediterranean history. I found an interesting passage in that book (pg. 162):
Were the Radhanites unique? Or were they, on one suggested (Persian) etymology of their name, not from Radhan in Mesopotamia, but simply 'those who know the trade routes' - know the best (177a, 268)?
I find this interesting. Komitsuki (talk) 15:18, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The corrupting sea: a study of Mediterranean history 

message: Rum in Persian writings actually means Greece and to be more exact Anatolia, at least revise the reference to the city of Rome because this is a common misconception of Europeans in translating persian sources.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.57.214.16 (talk) 20:14, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rome in Ibn Khordadbeh's account 

message: That figurine is usually described as a Sogdian merchant.  I wonder why it was put here...
Anyway I got rid of it. 2602:306:C4CE:9AF9:CCAA:709:3521:C041 (talk) 05:27, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Figurine of a Foreign Merchant (Tang dynasty, 7th century)