Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Featured articles/FA-Team

message: Looking through the list of proposals, I think some should be promoted to missions. I've just checked the state of the articles, and it seems to me that the articles that have a good level of citations and current active editing are these:
*Problem of Apollonius FAT member Willow is already helping with this and more help would be appreciated.
*Indigenous people of the Everglades region This is on GA hold and could do with helping through that stage right now. It could be argued that main editor Moni3 is not a newby to FA; but she is asking for assistance from the FAT team with copyediting, etc. and clearly feels that the extra help will make a lot of difference. It would be a shame if she was turned down here the way Willow was turned down.
*Adam Smith The Economics Wikiproject have asked for assistance on this one, and they are actively working on the article now.
Would anyone object if I added these to the missions page (and crossed the MMM project off)? Then all, hmmm, that's needed is for members to go out and help. qp10qp (talk) 01:01, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections at all.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 02:01, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Some proposals, then

message: But here's a thought...  Perhaps we should have a page such as the MMM one for all the articles on which the FA-Team is working.  Essentially, after all, the MMM "mission" was a series of mini-missions; not every member of the FA-Team was equally involved with each article.  So people could sign up for individual articles, and some kind of coordinator role would be to ensure that each article was covered in some way.  Then there could be discussion as at WT:Mission1, when particular articles needed help or a fresh set of eyes.
:In other words, rather than seeing MMM as a model for future missions, why not see MMM as a model for how the FA-Team works as a whole?  We'd then only directly replicate the MMM model if a series of linked articles (the Everglades one would perhaps be a good example) came up. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 01:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So for instance, right now I feel my FA-Team contribution centers around King Arthur (though I have been distracted by Peter Wall recently.  I'd sign up for King Arthur.  But I'd also watch a central talk page in case anyone says "look, X page is about to go for FA now; can we have another copy-edit from someone."  Or whatever. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 01:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I think that makes sense, at least as a working model that we can refine as needed. It would be especially helpful to have a general signup page rather than (or in addition to) individual mission pages, where we can see who has signed up for what per the MMM model and apply ourselves accordingly. The major drawback I found with our MMM efforts was the sudden descent of half a dozen editors on a single article - it got a little crowded at times ;) I think deadlines are a good idea too, even if they are fairly elastic. We can't achieve much without the commitment of an article's regular content editors (and shouldn't be taking on such articles anyway) so it would be a good way of indicating to them as well as us what's required. We'd also need a mechanism for removing missions as well as adding them; I've done a few copyedits that have been abandoned as editors have lost interest for whatever reason. Maybe that could fall to the coordinator, or perhaps better, the FATs that have been on that mission. EyeSerenetalk 07:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Suitably encouraged, I've started to draw up the machinery.  Others should of course feel free to edit vigorously.  One thing we do need to do (as Qp suggests) is figure out what's happening with current proposals.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 08:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds fine to me. RC-0722 361.0/1 18:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks ok to me.  I won't be able to do any immediate assistance, as I'm extremely busy with trying to get a few of my own articles to GA.  Keep me posted on this stuff. Cheers! Cam (Chat) 20:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I think this is an excellent idea and would be a step towards evenly reviewing FA proposals. Nice idea   ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000?  20:39, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 23:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a promising model. Let's try it! Awadewit (talk) 16:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: More general proposal

message: It's my understanding that a major goal here is to spawn new Wikipedians who are already content experts.  It's my belief that some of the changes I see at Wikipedia...including the existence of the FA-Team...are going to be very attractive to academicians.  I just got a pleasant reply from someone at Rice University, who expressed interest but asked me what a "Wikipedian" was and how I could verify that I was one, and I sent this back, I'd appreciate feedback of all kinds:
[begin]
I'm not offended at all, in fact I'm glad you asked.  Wikipedia is a lot like France right after the French Revolution...everyone takes great pride in not taking any pride and just calling themselves a citizen :) My username is Dank55, and if you click on the "history" and "discussion" tabs at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot, you'll see I have a long history of commenting on and changing the article.  You're welcome to visit my userpage at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dank55.  If you are looking for any particular type of confirmation, I'll be happy to oblige.
Btw, big things are happening at Wikipedia.  We've known for years that there are several things that academicians really want that they haven't gotten from Wikipedia...and that has been partly intentional, I think we were afraid of being pushed around by people smarter than us :)...but many things are changing this year:
1. There seems to be strong support now for a feature that's currently on the German Wikipedia, where all non-logged-in users and some logged-in users won't see vandalized pages in general, they will only see pages that have been "checked", and this may overcome the objection we have sometimes heard from academicians that Wikipedia requires them to "babysit" their contributions.
2. We are working very hard to increase the quality on enough articles so that we can start distributing a printed version of "the best of Wikipedia", probably next year.
3. We have a lot of volunteers now working with academicians to get them up to speed on all aspects of Wikipedia.
If you know content experts (of any kind) who are interested in writing articles but have found Wikipedia a "turn-off", please send them my way, and I'll be happy to answer questions and point them to likely colleagues on Wikipedia.
Dan
- Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 03:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's great that you're trying to do this...Speaking as someone who loves to joke, the "smarter than us" joke was a bit off-key. First, it references an us-them mentality; second, its self-deprecation kinda bleeds over a bit into poor-mouthing one's self... I woulda said several things differently... mentioning that anonymity is an option; mentioning that Wikipedia is the resource of first recourse for many (incl. esp. the younger generation) so that helping it upgrade its quality is a public service... many published PhDs already are Wikpedians, albeit some do so anonymously.. my jaw hit the floor when I found out that a wiki-friend of mine is someone whose publications I had read for class ;-) ... yadda yadda yadda...  Ling.Nut (talk) 07:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, my fingers are faster than my brain...the self-deprecating comment was the main thing I wanted feedback on, because this strikes me as a really difficult call.  (You're right, I did it wrong.)  If we include all the things we want to include (which might include anonymity, as you suggest), then it starts to sound more like an essay or a form letter than a personal note, and people read personal notes, they don't read form letters, unless they were already interested.  If I'm writing a personal note, what I want to do in just a few words is convey that a lot of academicians had perfectly good reasons not to participate on Wikipedia before, and we had some role in that, but things are changing.  Not to get too Machiavellian, but the closer it comes to sounding like something that just occurred to me, the more engaging it's going to be.  At the same time, I'd also like to have a longer, more formal reply available, and that should easily mention all the things you say, and more, if I detect interest.  Suggestions? - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 14:29, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Then babysit they must: that is what a watchlist is for. I'd hope for an auto-email facility tied to an article for those who don't log in regularly. That should be easy to set up. As for the "big thing" of the "checking" system used on the German W, it's an appalling idea. Absolutely appalling. For a number of reasons that I'm sure you can think of. Tony (talk) 02:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The feedback from the German experiment so far is pretty horrible; on the other hand, everyone admits they did it in a rush because Bertelsmann (Random House) asked them to, in preperation for publishing the written version. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 03:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No one has ever been able to tell me why it's not a dumb idea to hard-copy publish what is quintessential a fluid online structure. Who wants a snapshot? This 1.0 has shown how low its standards of writing and verification are. It will be a total embarrassment, and will gain very bad reviews in the press. It's online for a reason. Tony (talk) 10:57, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outreach to academicians 

message: I'm dark on the idea of offering some kind of service to intending nominators: they will come to rely on it. The whole point of the FA process is to encourage the kind of collaborations that will produce FA standards, and a drive-by wash-as-you-watch car-cleaning service will discourage collaborations.
What would be useful is a register of copy-editors along the lines of LOCE. I don't think a list needs to be content-related, since the nominators are presumably the content experts. When they get to the FAC room, their problems are typically process-related, and don't rely on knowledge of a particular area. 
It might be good to have a list of reviewers; unsure. Reviewers need to be rewarded for their efforts somehow.
Aside from that, I can only say that the process will just bumble through as it has done for years, but that we should feel pleased that significantly higher standards are (mostly) enforced compared with even a year or two ago. Tony (talk) 11:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *The idea is to teach people how FAC works and what the FAC expectations are so that they can do it on their own. So many people have bad FAC experiences. We want to avoid that. None of the projects we have worked on so far have been a "watching process". We have worked very well with the article editors. Awadewit (talk) 16:51, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true that this may be, like the PR volunteers list, just another herding of the helping-out process. But King Arthur is a good example of why extra help is often needed. This article is largely written by a published academic expert in the field, but a great deal of work needed to be done by those who knew how to get it in shape for FAC. The consequences of a nomination without that prior work might one fears have been a putting off of the main editor from the FAC process or even from Wikipedia. qp10qp (talk) 18:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Per Tony's concerns, I agree we have to be careful what articles we help and why. However, if we do this right, we are essentially training editors in what it takes to produce a Featured article - sourcing, MoS, and all the rest (even dashes). Ideally editors won't need to use us more than once. This is not intended to be a wax and polish service ;) EyeSerenetalk 09:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  thoughts 

message: I must say I used to proclaim loudly that editing a pile of text was better than starting from scratch, however I may have to eat my words with White-winged Fairy-wren..in any case loads of people have been helpful and I think it is more polished now. I promise I will do more serious articles after this...well maybe not straightaway but I'll get Bipolar disorder and major depressive disorder to FAC sometime this year. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:47, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eating my words 

message: See Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Textual criticism. 
The help of good copy-editors is much needed. This is a complex subject that needs the caring hand of editors that can make a complex subject to be readable as per the comments made in the bottom of that FA review. Thank you in advance for your consideration. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need some help 

message: ...is now at FAC. BuddingJournalist 15:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Duly noted.  I'll take a looksy tomorrow. Cheers! Cam (Chat) 06:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Indigenous people of the Everglades region]]... 

message: Just wanted to let everyone know King Arthur is a featured article as of yesterday. --Meldshal (talk to me) 13:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  King Arthur - Passed! 

message: There is another teaching assignment that is ending soon (July 21 I believe), where the teacher is trying to get her students to make five articles up to GA status.  You could always help out with this, but I'm afraid more help may be needed than the MMM project.  The project page is here - User:Piotrus/Teaching assignment. Remember (talk) 12:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: If you guys are bored...

message: After innocently adding my name to the list of participants, according to the house style, I noticed to my horror that the project page was rife with (children: avert your eyes) spaced em dashes. I can only conclude that this project is a subtle attempt by existing FA owners to ensure well-referenced FA candidates fail for MOS-compliance. Fie, for shame! Skomorokh 03:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Shocking isn't it! Let's hope no one moves the FA-Team page into article space: the contradiction would no doubt cause Wikipedia to implode and Tony1 to spontaneously combust. Geometry guy 13:41, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''J'Accuse!'' 

message: Just notifying everyone. --Meldshal (§peak to me) 13:41, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Learned Hand is up at FAC 

message: Here. Further help with Scattered disc and Solar energy would be much appreciated. Geometry guy 21:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Scattered disc]] is at peer review 

message: Let me offer to you our information booklet, which we edited on the Czech Wikiproject Quality: w:cs:Wikipedie:WikiProjekt Kvalita/brožura. The summary is in English languege. You can also translate it whole, using Google translate. PDF version is being under processed, within few days. Any articles, ideas, opinions are welcome (even in English) for the next volume here.--Juan de Vojníkov (talk) 21:35, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Information booklet 

message: I have been working on Tourism in the United States, and all the content there at the moment was written by myself. Its obviously an incomplete piece of work, but it seems like an ideal project for the FA-Team. I didn't add a proposal because it seems the project focuses on groups of articles. At any rate, I think some sort of collaboration could bring this article to FA status eventually. — Wackymacs (talk ~ edits) 12:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *We do not just focus on groups of articles. If you have a proposal, please outline it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Featured articles/FA-Team/Mission Proposals. See instructions there. Thanks! Awadewit (talk) 14:32, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Tourism in the United States]] 

message: If anyone is interested in classical music - December 22, 2008 will mark the 200 anniversary of the first performance of Beethoven's fifth symphony.  The article is currently a A-class article, but it would be nice to get it up to FA status and put on the main page for the 200 year anniversary. Remember (talk) 16:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Random music proposal 

message: We need fact checkers! Please help us out! Thanks! Awadewit (talk) 14:28, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Félix Houphouët-Boigny]] 

message: Hi there. I'm wondering if members of this project might have time to help copyediting Alien (film). It's currently at FAC and some concerns about prose have been brought up. I've gone over Tony's guides but I feel I am too close to the text (being the primary contributor) to be able to take an objective eye and work out the kinks. Jappalang recommended that I contact this project, so I'm hoping that one or more members might have time to lend an eye to the article. Thanks very much for your consideration. --IllaZilla (talk) 23:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit help with [[Alien (film)]] 

message: I've been working on this article and would like to recieve some suggestions on how to improve this article for a FA nomination. Thanks! Shinerunner (talk) 01:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Edward M. Cotter (fireboat)]] 

message: My message is not related to Featured Articles, but please bear with me.  I'll be brief.  
Tim Vickers, whom many of you may know, and I are giving a hands-on workshop in creating scientific articles for Wikipedia at the upcoming meeting of the American Society for Cell Biology (ASCB) in San Francisco.  The workshop will take place on December 16th for two hours, from 12:30–2:30pm local time, which is 20:30–22:30 UTC (Wikipedia time).  We're expecting roughly 60 newbie scientists, who will be eager to start articles and upload images for their favorite research topics.  We're hoping that you will consider volunteering to help the scientists to craft these new articles and give them a good impression of how Wikipedians can pull together for a common cause.  This seems like a great opportunity to build bridges with academics, and if we're successful, other invitations from scientific bodies will likely follow.  I know this to be the home of many excellent and helpful editors.  Please write us to volunteer to help; we'll keep you posted, individually, on the workshop and how it will run.  Thanks!  Proteins (talk) 23:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please let us know here when any of your articles either get close to or arrive at FAC.  I'll be happy to help. - Dan Dank55 (send/receive) 16:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Help with a Wikipedia workshop for cell biologists

message: Hello FA Team!
I am a student from WikiProject AP Biology 2008, and it is my mission to get the North American River Otter article to FA status. Anybody willing to join in on the fun is more than welcome to, as I always welcome assistance and support with open arms. 
Best regards,
--Wikitrevor (talk) 22:31, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  North American River Otter FA Nomination 

message: There is a plan to bring the Oil shale extraction article to FA status and renominate it for FAC. Any assistance, such as reviewing and editing, as also as any critical comment is appreciated. Beagel (talk) 10:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oil shale extraction 

message: I tagged the WikiProject FA page dead a while back, and that doesn't seem to have been controversial. Although this message might be better suited there, no one watches that page, and it would likely have gone unnoticed.
I propose doing something to reincarnate this project, because we had a beautiful thing going. As I recall, this was supposed to help new users with expertise in a particular subject area but no familiarity with FAC and whatnot get their article promoted. I want to try the exact opposite, experienced editors with little knowledge of a subject trying to achieve an FA. Although this might seem a bit silly, I also propose we do it in a neglected subject  area—I'm thinking food. Only nine FAs are in the food and drink category, and just three of those are on actual dishes. I've figured that if a model was written, more users would write about the subject. I completely open to the article suggestions, but just to throw some out, pasta, caesar salad, french fries, etc. And suggestions (or requests for me to leave this page and never come back) are welcome. Cheers, Mm40 (talk) 04:45, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me. Perhaps we could send a generic ("Hey, over here!") note to all the listed members? –Juliancolton | Talk 14:18, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If this doesn't get many comments for a while, sure. However, 62 people watch this page. Feel free to do so, if not I'll get around to it tonight. Mm40 (talk) 14:29, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Tennis ... not one FA, nothing, zilch. The area needs a lift and has good editors. My problem with this is that there's already a waterfall of FACs and not enough reviewers. If users who are mentored/helped can agree to learn by doing a little reviewing beforehand, that would be good. Tony (talk) 01:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm willing to help a revival - the project was brilliant before and could be again. ceranthor 01:49, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In response to Tony: I think what differentiates food from athletes is that, even if there are no tennis FAs, there are plenty of other athletics articles to base one off of. I picked food because I often see GA reviews where the nominator has done  extensive work on an article only to be told that it's "fundamentally flawed" (i. e. it's poorly organized). If we figured out the optimal organization, as well as what needs to be covered to be "comprehensive", perhaps others will not be intimidated by the fear that their masterpiece may be denied as "fundamentally flawed". If this mission has enough involvement, perhaps our next mission can be tennis-related (I recall hearing that Serena Williams was close). Mm40 (talk) 02:29, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Food and drink is a area lacking in FAs, Coffee and Potato are two which have potential which I'd be interested in a concerted effort on. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:04, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK then. In the spirit of being bold, I'm going to make a mission with those two articles. Currently, we have 4 editors. With two articles, three editors per should suffice. If no one more joins soon, I'll spam WT:FAC. If there are no objection within the next few hours, I'm going ahead. Mm40 (talk) 13:26, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Happy if you do all the housekeeping templates and such. Maybe one at a time is best WRT prioritising (?) I guess a defined scope of the FA team is good, something like "bigger/broader/more difficult articles within striking distance to get to FA, which just need a significant amount of concerted effort to get over the line" (?) Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:34, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

text: This looks like it might be fun in the long run. 20 people working on one (ok 2) article is always fun (minus the edit conflicts :) ) ResMar 00:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've started the mission here. If you plan on helping out, add yourself after "Users working on". Coffee is currently at GA, so I'm gonna start a to-do list on the article talk page; please watchlist. Additionally, I'm going to spam WikiProjects and WT:FAC. I hope I'm not being overly ambitious... Mm40 (talk) 02:28, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revival? 

message: It's a big job, but a worthwhile one. Details at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Google Project. --Arcadian (talk) 14:37, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Google collaboration