Talk:Idlewild and Soak Zone

message: At the request of User:Grsz11, I'm posting my second peer review here. This enjoyable article appears to be comprehensive and generally well-supported. To give it a chance to make FA, it will almost certainly need more images. It would be possible for someone with a digital camera to go to the park and capture a set of varied images. In addition, I have some concerns about the prose. Most of my comments below address the prose issues.
Lead
*"near Ligonier, Pennsylvania, along US Route 30" - Suggestion: "near Ligonier, Pennsylvania, about  east of Pittsburgh along U.S. Route 30". Most readers will know where Pittsburgh is but not Ligonier.
*"The park was later purchased by Kennywood Entertainment Company that oversaw additional expansion from 1983, including an attraction designed and voiced by Fred Rogers based on his television show Mister Rogers' Neighborhood." - This would be better in active voice. Something like this might work: "In 1983, Kennywood Entertainment Company bought and expanded the park. Fred Rogers designed and voiced one of the park's new features, based on his television show, Mister Rogers' Neighborhood".
Ligonier Valley Railroad
*When the Pennsylvania Railroad declined financial responsibility for the Ligonier-Latrobe line, Judge Thomas Mellon was approached and signed a contract in August 1877. - It would be good to say who approached him and render this in active voice.
*"the right and privilege to occupy his land for picnic purposes or pleasure grounds." - Each direct quote must have a citation immediately after the terminal punctuation, which usually comes after the quotation marks. Even if citation 2 is meant to cover both quotes in this paragraph, each quote must have a citation. You can use the "ref = name" device if they are the same. 
*"The first structure built was a depot" - Suggestion: wikilink depot.
*"still stands in the center of the park today" - "Today" is generally deprecated because it is ambiguous and always changing. Perhaps "was still standing in the center of the park as of 2009" would solve the problem. 
*"With easy access to the site, the park attracted visitors from 50 miles (80 km) away in Pittsburgh and the surrounding areas for a weekend in the country. - This is a bit awkward. Perhaps "Easily accessible, the park attracted visitors from as far away as Pittsburgh, 50 miles (80 km) to the west, for a weekend in the country." 
*"many of the structures still exist" - Suggestion: "many of the structures still remained as of 2009".
*"(the only one remaining)" - Perhaps "(the only one remaining after 1972)".
*"three-row Philadelphia Toboggan Company carousel" - Unlink "carousel" since it's already linked in this section.
*"World War II required the park to close" - "Required" suggests something legal. Was it closed by law? Low attendance? Loss of staff to the war effort? It would be good to be specific if you know what the reason was.
Macdonald family
*"The games, held annually in early September after the park had closed for the summer, became one of the largest and highest-regarded Scottish athletic and cultural competitions in the country." - Since this is an extraordinary claim, it needs a citation right after its end punctuation.
Kennywood era
*"adding Mister Rogers Neighborhood of Make-Believe trolley ride" - This phrase has three problems. MoS advises against bumping several wikilinked words or phrases against one another because the reader can't tell one from the next. "Trolley" is linked to a disambiguation page. The name of the show is Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. Suggested solution: "a trolley ride based on Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, a popular children's television show. You can look at this in edit mode to see how I did the links.
*Suggestion: Wikilink "lumberjack".
Location
*"Realizing his mistake, Washington ran among both groups, shouting and raising rifles into the air." - It's not clear from this whether Washington was shouting and raising rifles or whether you mean the groups of soldiers were shouting and raising rifles. Maybe "ran between the two groups of soldiers, who were shouting and waving their rifles".
*"Though the location had never been entirely verified, Images of America: Idlewild from Arcadia Publishing acknowledges the opinion that the event took place in a section of Idlewild that was previously a wooded area known as the Woodlands." - Suggestion: "has never been verified" rather than "had". Second suggestion: "Arcadia Publishing notes" rather than "acknowledges". You might add where this opinion comes from. Also, shouldn't this be "Jeffrey S. Croushore" rather than Arcadia Publishing who is acknowledging or noting?
Recognition
*"Idlewild was recognized by the National Amusement Park Historical Association as the fourth best park for families in 2007, second in 2006, and fourth in 2005." - The article includes quite a few passive voice sentences. Active voice is generally stronger. When either form will work, consider using active. Suggestion: "The National Amusement Park Historical Association recognized Idlewild... ". 
Attractions
*"The Rollo Coaster has been named a "Classic Coaster" by American Coaster Enthusiasts". - Here's another passive that's easy to flip. - Suggestion: "American Coaster Enthusiasts named the Rollo Coaster a "Classic Coaster". 
If you find these suggestions helpful, please consider reviewing another article at WP:PR. Finetooth (talk) 18:23, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Second peer review

message: I propose to restore the change reverted here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Idlewild_and_Soak_Zone&diff=277737176&oldid=277735684
The "Related information" heading was added to separate the navboxes from the "External links" section and to provide the readers with a quick way to reach the navboxes from the table of contents. The reverting editor does not say the "Related information" heading is unhelpful but, rather, that it is "not standard." Unless there is a rule out there that articles must conform to a particular standard then this does not seem to be a valid rationale to me. Is there such a rule? If not, does anyone have a better reason the "Related information" heading should not be restored? Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 22:21, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related information 

message: (( Case closed.  --Mike Schwartz (talk) 21:12, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I went back and investigated.  The word "announced" is exactly what used to be present in this article, and the exact edit where it was removed, was in the "Revision as of 21:27, 8 March 2009".  The sentence was being moved from one part of the article to another, but the word "announced" should not have been deleted, and it was deleted.  I intend to restore the word "announced".  I am not even going to wait for replies, here on the "Talk" page.  If you have any disagreement, you may be faced with a decision to revert.  This strikes me as a blatant case of, a change having been made, (at the above mentioned date / time!) that was NOT intentional on the part of anyone.  If you have any comments, bring 'em on.  --Mike Schwartz (talk) 04:41, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Just seems like a grammatical error. Is it really as big of a deal as you're making it to be? Grsz11 21:19, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  picayune nitpick 

message: Looking through the article I see some fairly significant organizational issues, which I am surprised were not flagged in the process of getting this to FA. 
*It seems highly questionable for Rollo Coaster to have its own article unless there is a whole lot more to add. Merging wouldn't seem to be a problem.
**I don't see what that has to do with the featured status of this article. Grsz11 15:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to refrain from changing the format for now, not that its really a big deal to do so, until others can comment. It didn't come up on the FAC from any of the reviewers, and therefore I'm not really sure how big of a deal it is. Grsz11 15:27, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the FAR didn't open, I'll comment further. The History section covers a broad, overall history of the park, touching on major points and details (additions of the two roller coasters, Mister Rogers, a waterpark, etc.).  Attractions addresses specific attraction history. The attractions mentioned above will be mentioned again in order to be thorough, but is a sentence repeated really that big of a deal? Grsz11 15:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was using that as an example. I'm thinking now that Attractions should come first, then "General History", with at least some of the repetition removed from the latter. PSWG1920 (talk) 16:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. The History is an overall view, that addresses many specific details. Most of the Attractions section won't make sense unless the reader has already read the History. Grsz11 14:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: My thinking is that any detail needed for the Attractions section to make sense should be moved to said section. Many readers will not read the whole article anyway, and Attractions is likely to be the aspect which draws the most interest. PSWG1920 (talk) 18:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

text: *Regarding the merge proposal for Rollo Coaster, I am opposed. ACE Classic Coasters are notable enough for their own articles and that article is an acceptable stub. ++Lar: t/c 19:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: *Agreed. –Juliancolton | Talk 19:29, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organization 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 5 external links on Idlewild and Soak Zone. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080911092118/http://www.kennywood.com/docs/12.11.07KECNewChapterRelease.pdf to http://www.kennywood.com/docs/12.11.07KECNewChapterRelease.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101206160409/http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/westmoreland/s_711842.html to http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/westmoreland/s_711842.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080925050653/http://www.idlewild.com/in_the_park/ to http://idlewild.com/in_the_park/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110713143522/http://www.kennywood.com/docs/2009KennywoodPressKit.pdf to http://www.kennywood.com/docs/2009KennywoodPressKit.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110928182648/http://www.idlewild.com/site/documents/IPReleaseNAPHA.pdf to http://www.idlewild.com/site/documents/IPReleaseNAPHA.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I just found two unsourced statements in this article and tagged them as such. Normally, I would not do this to a featured article, but I actually spent about 15 minutes searching for sources for these statements. Unfortunately, the only sources I could find for these claims are blogs and forum posts, which are not generally appropriate as sources for a good article, let alone a featured article. The two statements I tagged are:
* 
* 
Hopefully, this article's primary editors have better luck finding sources for these statements. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:37, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed