Talk:Odorheiu Secuiesc

message: There is an error in the demographics section: 35359 of 36948 is 95.6993%, not 96.7%  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.233.16.240 (talk) 21:24, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistent numbers: demographics 

message: As explained per WP:PLACE Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted and should be listed in alphabetic order of their respective languages,. Could you please explain why are you reverting and please provide a valid reason for moving the German name (after the Hungarian one), having in mind that G is in front of letter H. Adrian (talk) 11:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Székelyudvarhely was never inhabited by Germans and definitely not mentioned as Odorhelln is more than 10% of English sources. As a courtesy for German people, Hungarians had never objection to use it. The only problem is that your purpose is to weaken prominence of the Hungarian name. More than that Hungarian is locally co-official or qausi co-official while the German has no preferential status locally.  Rokarudi --Rokarudi 11:31, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  What is Szekelysomething? Please use official names.. The problem is that you see Wiki as a battleground for the "survivor" of the Szekely people. Wiki is not here to represent the "importance" of something to some ethnic group. I repeat so you can finally understand, Hungarian is not official or co-offical. The official status of the Hungarian language is equal with any other, German too. Present that special rule that states your POV. Don`t forget that you are acting again against the WP:PLACE for personal reasons. Adrian (talk) 11:34, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Thank you. That is all that was needed, a valid reason, wiki rule and a conversation(which Rokarudi avoided and so keen to say something now, but when having a chance to state his arguments all that he does is edit warring(or "mud" throwing)- a behavior of a disruptive user) so I could be informed of such a possibility. I have read the WP:PLACE where it stated clear the alphabetical order that regulates this clearly as User:Wladthemlat said it too. I guess Hungarian name could be in front of the German one, just not under Saxon name since we state languages in the lead not dialects of various languages. Ex: We write Hungarian not Szekely language(a dialect of Hungarian language).Adrian (talk) 09:17, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Iadrian, I see you are one of those engeneers who always wished they became lawyers. You always have a paragraph in your pocket (WP:this or that) as the uppermost valid argument. Under WP:name ( or under 'our rules', to quote a classical editor) German is not to be indicated, but I have no objection, and never had, to insert one unless the goal is to put the German name in front of the Hungarian one for places inhabited by 95% Hungarians, and 0 to 0.0001% Germans.  Dialects in German language is not the same thing as dialacts in Hungarian. Difference between German dialects can be as big as between Catalan and Spanish etc. Rokarudi--Rokarudi 09:39, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  No thanks :-), I don`t like lawyers. I read a lot of Wikipedia policies(and cite them) for the obvious reasons, to avoid any disputes and to maintain as much as possible the NPOV. Ok. When I am talking with anyone, I express Wiki policy and not my personal opinion , which is the most NPOV. I guess Saxon is good too then. Please use official names, beside the Hungarian minority, anybody else can`t dream that "Székelyudvarhely" is in fact Odorheiu Secuiesc. Adrian (talk) 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That's where your biggest mistake lies (apart from the personal attacks). The alphabetical ordering in WP:PLACE is there for a reason, to avoid disputes about which group and language should be more privileged than others. German name should be here as it has been one of the official names for quite some time. The ordering is obvious and indisputable, % of Hungarian population plays no role in it, it should be alphabetical and WP:PLACE confirms it. Please don't invent your own rules and try to focus on more productive editing. Wladthemlat (talk) 09:50, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Wladthemlat, please read at least the first subsection of this section before making legal stetments and you will surely see that your interpretation is mistaken. German was never an official name for Székelyudvarhely, even the Josephinische_Landaufnahme  shows it as Udvarhely, so your argument here is not very strong. Until 1876, Transylvania was based on ethnic and local autonomies which was undoubtedly a mistake to abandon. Rokarudi--Rokarudi 10:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I really can't argue about the German name's inclusion, if this is correct it probably should be removed, that's up to another discussion. What stays is the point about the name ordering, also WP:NCGN confirms that German should go first as a matter of neutrality and avoidance of lengthy discussions as this one. By the way, Catalan is a language of its own, not a dialect. Wladthemlat (talk) 10:44, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  German name should be present, why not? But in this case after the Hungarian name. I quote Rokarudi "Until 1876, Transylvania was based on ethnic and local autonomies which was undoubtedly a mistake to abandon. " - please refrain from this kind of statements since there are more than 7 million of Romanians(and other minorities except Hungarians(Szekely)) that live in Transylvania(and the rest of the country and EU, and this is a democracy) that think different. Try to keep your political opinions at bay when you are editing and everything should be fine. Adrian (talk) 11:20, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

text: I simply do not understand you, am I not writing clear enough? Although a lot can be said about the present as well, I wrote about the administrative reform in 1876 made by the Hungarian government and not the internal politics of 2010 in Romania. I personally support self-governance, knowing the fact that this will only be possible to achive through dialogue with Romanian people. If we continue in this tone, this will be a shallow discussion.Rokarudi--Rokarudi 14:41, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don`t think that autonomies will ever be needed or reached in Romania having in mind that every minority, including Hungarian one, has all the right one minority needs according to Western Europe, in not , even more. This is the official position of everybody except for a part of the Hungarian minority that demands territorial division(and not minority rights). Don`t get me wrong, but it can be seen from an airplane that you have revisionist ideas about ex-Trianon territories. I mean who wears a black ribbon  for 90-th anniversary of the Treaty of Trianon ? It is clear that you have strong feelings about related subjects that influences your editing NPOV. Adrian (talk) 11:48, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

text: I think that Wladthemlat should consider that if Romanian and Hungarian editors, those who usually take care of this article, agree on a specific issue, there is no need for an artificial dispute as a compensating action for any frustration suffered at Cernová Tragedy discussion. As the numbner of Slovakian editors is less than those of Hungarians, the same pattern applies as with Hungarians being less number than Romanians. So, alone even if Wladthemlat should be right, he will never win a dispute. BUT, this is not a reason for edit warring at another topic. Rokarudi--Rokarudi 13:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are you always trying to move the attention to an unrelated issue? The policies and guidelines are clear, should you want to change the order, at least point to a relevant guideline/policy that supports your view and do not edit war without substance (not to mention edit summaries) Wladthemlat (talk) 14:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  German name 2