Talk:Turn on red

message: Are there other regions in the USA besides NYC prohibiting RTOR? --Abdull 01:35, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the situation in the rest of the world? It would be useful to know. I often get in a rental car at an airport and the first thing I encounter is a red light where I need to turn right. Then a bunch of cars come up behind me, then a police car appears. One day I'll remember to ask at the rental counter. RobS 19:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, "No Turn On Red" (NTOR) restrictions are commonplace throughout the entire United States, but not necessarily at every intersections as New York City tends to do.  NTOR is also in increasing use throughout the world, particularly in countries which have largely developed along with the automobile (such as USA and Australia).  In Europe, motorists tend to have more responsibility with driving; but agencies are increasingly implementing NTOR restrictions. --Thisisbossi 22:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At least here in Finland, turning right on red is completely illegal maneuver as is bypassing a red light altogether except in emergency situation. However in some large intersections this is overridden by a special lane that veers right, past the traffic lights, allowing only a right turn. A sign indicates that drivers in this lane must give priority to those coming from left. Also additionally there is a sign in the lights indicating that right turn is prohibited, making the special lane the only available lane to turn right. This special intersection works like a normal intersection with RTOR-rule, but requires no special laws to allow running a red light, which helps to keep rules simpler... However I have wondered many times about the RTOR rules and american tourists. As here is no need for signs denying the RTOR, because it is by default illegal in any circumstances, and as americans do not always seem to be aware of the laws in foreing countries, are they prone to make mistakes like this while driving around in rented car? (Finnish traffic rules are in most respect somewhat similar to american standarts...)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.223.93.188 (talk) 23:37, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

text: I see your point. "Turning in the direction of traffic flow" would be more precise, if tedious and incomprehensible. This would be rarely referenced directly and would be redirected from "Right Turn on Red" and "Left Turn on Red." It would have to explain its peculiar title in the lead. (Don't really expect an answer to a three  year old remark, though!   :)  Student7 (talk) 00:24, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

text: "I believe this maneuver is illegal in the UK" - Correct.  Turns on red have never been permitted in the U.K., except where a green arrow is showing at the same time, in which case a turn in direction(s) indicated by the arrow may be made without stopping.   Note also that red & amber arrows are not used in the U.K. (except for a brief experiment with a flashing amber arrow in a few places some years ago).  Neither is the flashing red as the equivalent of a stop sign used; flashing red lights can be found only at railway crossings, to stop traffic for emergency vehicles to emerge, and so on, which in all cases requires drivers to remain stopped until the lights are turned off.  184.12.246.105 (talk) 16:31, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Other cities besides NYC prohibiting?

message: I'm just curious, is it legal, U.S. federal, or otherwise, to turn (right) on a red arrow if there is no sign posted prohibiting it?
::In California, a sign must be present to fully restrict a right turn on red, even with an arrow. Source:  — fcsuper (How's That?, That's How!) (Exclusionistic Immediatist ) —  04:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: CVC 21453(c) specifically forbids turning right at a right red arrow ("A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow").
I would tend to think that, no it's not legal. Otherwise there wouldn't be a red/green turn signal there. There would just be a standard 'ball' light. Peter Tangney (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 23:14, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

text: It seems to vary by jurisdiction. I live in Virginia and about three miles from my house there is an intersection where one road has two right-turn lanes, both with red arrows, and the light for the left-most of these two lanes has a sign "No Turn on Red This Lane" (or something very similar). The clear implication is that right on red is legal from the curb lane even though there's a red arrow there, and almost everyone thus makes the turn (I've seen people do it in front of cops and I've never seen anyone ticketed). Nobody knows why there is a red arrow there, and it seems that allowing a right on red defeats the whole point of the red arrow! In the District of Columbia, by contrast, any time there's a red arrow it means that it's illegal to go in the direction of the arrow. This is how DC distinguishes when the straight-thru lanes have a green but turns (usually left turns) are not permitted. 1995hoo (talk) 15:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

text: It is never mandatory to turn on red, although failing to go right on red (when it's safe) will inevitably provoke the wrath of other motorists. (I note "right on red" because in Virginia most people don't know that left on red is legal from a one-way street into another one-way street. I'm one of the only people I know who will make a left on red when it's allowed.) 1995hoo (talk) 15:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In most states, it is illegal to turn right on a red arrow. That is the reason for the arrow. Driver does not have to be able to read English to understand that there is no turn allowed. Student7 (talk) 00:27, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turning on a red arrow 

message: This article resembles a list of heresay.  I'm not sure the regionality is a good approach, since there will be a lot of redunancy between regions.  The latest addition to the article on oceania is a good example.  That content couldn't just as easily been added to several other sections for other regions in the article.  Many areas have traffic islands and free right (left) turns.  I suggest rewriting this article, keeping in mind the general concepts.  If regional exceptions to those concepts then apply, they can be addressed on a case-by-case basis.  Thought? — fcsuper (How's That?, That's How!) (Exclusionistic Immediatist ) —  19:27, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Format and content 

message: Georgia was allowing right turn on red in the 1950s. California may have "had a law" in 1947, but I lived there in the early 1960s and no one knew about it nor did it. I suspect that Jimmy Carter, from Georgia, was instrumental in getting this passed in the late 1970s after becoming President. Can't find anything to substantiate this though. Student7 (talk) 00:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Who was first?

message: An editor consistently tries to word the current paragraph to make it appear that NYC is a state. It is a municipality inside NY state. NY state law is "right turn on red", the law of all 50 states and territories. The city (not metropolis BTW) of NYC has issued an exception for the entire city. That is fine, but other cities probably have exceptions as well. Because it is large, the only one we know about is NYC. But it is still not a state and therefore not an "exception" to the rule for states nor territories either. Student7 (talk) 17:00, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The state of New York City?

message: The article says that you may turn right on red in the US unless there is a "No Turn on Red" or "Right Turn Signal". I don't believe that last point is correct. The right turn signal sign tells motorists that the signal head next to it applies exclusively to traffic in the dedicated turn lane below that signal head. Separate signals control traffic in the through lane or lanes.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.75.120 (talk) 16:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree that this seems ambiguous. Editors have obviously tried to "clarify by committee." I shortened, hoping to clarify. Student7 (talk) 20:14, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

text: @173.49.75.120  ambiguity is correct, there's disagreements amongst the states. In Michigan, a red arrow is not a "no turn on red" Mr kitehead (talk) 03:54, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Right Turn Signal sign

message: "In Washington, freeway on-ramps are considered one-way streets for the purposes of the left turn on red law."
Is there some special meaning behind this sentence?  Is there any sense in which a freeway on-ramp is not considered a one-way street in Washington?  Or is there some other state that has two-way freeway on-ramps (whatever that would mean)?
I'm sure this sentence is true, but it's kind of like saying "Barack Obama has 5 fingers on his right hand".  It's suggesting something, but what?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.161.246 (talk) 07:04, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. I rm it. Not sure why state police bother to differentiate. Just odd and does not seem to contribute anything to the article. Student7 (talk) 16:32, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: IIRC, some ramps in D.C. are one-way inbound during morning peak hours, outbound during evening peak, and two-way during off peak. That may have something to do with it. More research is needed.--Triskele Jim 20:55, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

text: According to this article which cites Washington State Patrol as their source, freeway on-ramps are not considered one-way streets, but rather "connected to the larger multi-directional highway system," and thus the left turn on red rule does not apply. -- 97.120.222.75 (talk) 09:38, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A strange sentence 

message: The enviornment is a factor.
Here is a crude gestimate for gas consumption of right turn on red.
100 major cities
2500 ntor per city (this encludes a massive amount of suburban sprawl)
10 sec average wait time
1/16 tanks of gass used in 1 hour of idl
20 gal  Average tank of gas
16 hours per day
Thats. 100 * 2500 * 1/12/60 * 1/16 * 20 * 16 
So i get about 6944 galons or. 833 cubic feet of gas
A cube of gas 9.4 foot wide, high and deep.
Every day.
Thats some tire fire.
72.94.242.150 (talk) 12:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gasoline usage 

message: thumb|right|80px
The image caption states "A self-contradictory "Right turn on red" traffic light in Belgrade, Serbia". Why is this contradictory? Many EU and surrounding countries place an arrow in the red/yellow lights to indicate that there is a side-section for that direction. The arrow in red light means there is a side-section for turning right. (It is not red arrow, it is black arrow in red light.) In this case, one can only go right when the side-section is green, and must give way to others. (If there wasn't a side-section, then they wouldn't have to give way.) —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 00:50, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Self-contradictory traffic light photo 

message: Apparently according to NJSA 39:4-115 (http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/39-motor-vehicles-and-traffic-regulation/4-115.html) New Jersey does not expressly permit left turns on red. I'm planning on updating that section of the article, adding New Jersey to the list of states that prohibit left turns on red and reducing the number of states that allow the maneuver from 38 to 37. I also plan to update the map, and color New Jersey red and also color Alaska the darker blue color since it apparently allows left turns on red from a two-way to one-way but the map doesn't indicate such. Any objections? AstareGod (talk) 19:28, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left turn on red in New Jersey 

message: Why is this article called "Right turn on red"? Why isn't it called something not specific to what side of the road a country drives on? It could just as easily be called "Left turn on red" in England or Japan (yes I know it's against the law in those two countries).
megamalx (talk) 15:50, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left turn on red 

message: In the section Left Turn on Red in Countries with Right Hand Traffic, I've counted the states mentioned several times. First, 36 states are said to allow left on red from a one way onto a one way. Next, five states are stated to allow left on red from a two way in addition to one way. Finally, eight states are named which do not permit left on red. That adds up to 49 states. I believe New York State was neglected probably because New York City was singled out. New York State should be added to the list of states which allow left on red from a one way onto a one way. In other words, 37 states, not 36, as stated in the article, allow this maneuver. cam8510
: You do appear to be correct, however this section is under-sourced anyway. There are only references for South Carolina and the "five other states" plus New York City. Unless sourcing can be improved, I'd be looking towards removing mentions of any other states, including New York. -- Whats new?(talk) 22:46, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of states named/referred to in left on red section don't add up to fifty 

message: In most of the cities free left is allowed. Only in rare cases (multiple intersections), free left is not allowed. India times. So it is usually said "free left unless otherwise noted".
I will get more sources soon, so that the info in article can be corrected.  —usernamekiran (talk) 22:14, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Free left in India 

message: I was quite surprised to see a mention in the "Turn on red" article in Wikipedia, when the phrase "In June 1978, Maryland became the last state to allow right turns on red." was posted...
...As I distinctly remember, as a veteran Massachusetts motorist of forty years' experience behind the wheel, that the Bay State was the state that held that dubious honor!
That Bay State gubernatorial throwback to the motorist-hating state-level American legislators at the dawn of the 20th century, one Michael Dukakis, was infamous in Bay State history for stiffly resisting calls from the United States Congress in the late 1970s to allow right turns on red lights.  When the Bay State finally allowed "RTOR", Dukakis promptly put up "No Turn On Red" signs at SO many Massachusetts road intersections that the United States Senate did a review of Dukakis' behavior in regards to that action, and found that roughly half of those signs simply had no justification for being posted at so MANY intersections.
Finding newspaper proof of how all this happened COULD be a challenge...!
The PIPE (talk) 17:57, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, you may be right. This Harvard Crimson article indicates Massachusetts pased the law on August 8, 1979, to go into effect on January 1, 1980. The Crimson also states Massachusetts was the last state to change, and also notes that signs prohibiting the behavior were at least planned for 90% of intersections. I will change the article. MarginalCost (talk) 05:43, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  MASSACHUSETTS was the last U.S. state to allow turns on red..! 

message: "In the United States outside New York City, right turns are permitted on red (except for school buses and trucks carrying hazardous materials)"
I'm sticking a CN tag on that. The only source I can find is the picture caption itself, which google regurgitates as authoritative. Even truckers are confused. Eastcheap (talk) 17:40, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that statement could simply be removed. I've seen school buses in North Carolina where the state and/or district has applied a sticker on the back of their school buses reading "NC law says school buses can't turn right on red" (as an explanation for drivers that are behind the bus), which would probably be stated as a federal law if it existed at that level. 07:10, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  School Buses and Hazmats 

message: The map showing where left on red is legal or illegal needs a minor correction: Alaska should be in dark blue, not teal, as it's named as one of the few states that allow a left-on-red from a 2-way to a 1-way street. Mr kitehead (talk) 03:51, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left On Red map 

message: Is it me or is this contradictory? What's correct?
 All 50 states, the District of Columbia, Guam, and Puerto Rico have allowed right turns on red since 1980, except where prohibited by a sign or where right turns are controlled by dedicated traffic lights. (...) The few exceptions include New York City, where right turns on red are prohibited unless a sign indicates otherwise, and in Washington, DC, which will prohibit right turns on red in 2025.
AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 12:33, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction in text on USA? 

message: Dennis C. Abrams (talk) 13:51, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Map requested