Talk:Fly tying

message: Is it really a science??? CobaltBlueTony 14:03, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)
It's not a Science, but it could be argued that it follows a scientific method in the development of new flies in the sense of create a hypothesis of what sort of fly a fish will hit upon, tye that fly, and attempt.  If it works, continue to use it, if it doesn't, continue variations until you find something that will.  Fish psychology combined with art?  --BLP 04:14, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Science

message: In the past I have sold flies and fly rods that I have built to friends and occasionally on Ebay. I don't make my living from Fly Fishing.  Please evaluate any contributions I make to this article for NPOV in light of the above.--Mike Cline 10:42, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Potential Conflict of Interest Mike Cline

message: Is there an agreed upon acceptable spelling? JStripes 14:44, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tiers and tyers 

message: See WP:Citing sources see relevant guidelines below
Maintaining a separate "References" section in addition to "Notes"
It can be helpful when footnotes are used that a separate "References" section also be maintained, in which the sources that were used are listed in alphabetical order. With articles that have lots of footnotes, it can become hard to see after a while exactly which sources have been used, particularly when the footnotes also contain explanatory text. A References section, which lists citations in alphabetical order, helps readers to see at a glance the quality of the references used.
--Mike Cline 12:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Really should maintain Separate Notes and References sections 

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thread_title:  WikiProject Fishing Assessment Drive 

message: While tying the artificial fly can be fun and rewarding, there are instances where the fingers themselves may need some attention as fine threads (some being silk), feathers and fur can be caught on the rough skin.  Static electricity can also cause these materials to "stick" to the fingers which can be an aggravation.
Consumer hand-cremes are generally manufactured with various scents to tantalize our senses, it is common thinking that these hand-cremes transfer these scents/odors to the hand-tied fly and can be a true detriment to the catching of fish.
While at this time there is one "finger treatment" made available specifically for use for fly tyer's, there are a number of commercial products available for softening the hands for use while milking cows, as well as banker's hand cremes which are often used for handling dollar bills.  The latter of the two are a creme for use on the entire hand and may or not harbor odors that could linger on the finished fly.  This may or may not effect the actual "fish strike" or the taking of the fly.
The fly fishermans' Finger Treatment noted above is intentionally made to contain a minimun of oder containing products and is intended to not leave any residual odor on the finished fly.
Image: Treatment
64.118.114.206 18:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tying Aids 

message: I have undertaken a structural re-write of this article to expand on historical aspects of fly tying and provide more historical and comptemporary imagery. I really think the article should focus on FLY TYING and DESIGN, not necessarily the zillions of flies the process has produced. Additionally, I have expanded the references and cites to include both comtemporary and historical works.  I removed the laundry list of fly types, how they are fished and example flies, as this can be, should be and is covered in fly fishing and artificial fly articles.  The text of those sections is preserved here for the time being.
==Fly Patterns==
Since the first development of the fishing fly, many different patterns have been created. The Professional Fly Tying manual classifies flies into five main groups.  Flies are usually classified as being wet, dry, streamer, nymph or other.  Although the classifications below denote the original intent of the designer of the fly (that it should float, sink or is intended to represent a particular food item) - in practice an angler may take a wet fly and fish it on the surface, or make a dry fly sink as needs demand.  For an angler, rather than a fly tyer, a dry fly is one that is fished on the surface and a wet fly is one that is fished sub-surface - no matter what its designer intended.  The main aim is to catch fish!
===Dry Fly===
A dry fly floats on the surface film of the water.  They can imitate aquatic insects that have just emerged, insects that dapping on the surface of the water and depositing eggs, or those that have expired and fallen back into the water (spinners).  Imitations of terrestrial insects that have accidentally fallen into the water are also tied as a dry fly.
===Terrestrial===
A terrestrial is a dry or wet fly designed to imitate a terrestrial ground insect, including crickets, grasshoppers, ants, spiders, and beetles.  Larger terrestrial creatures such as mice may also be tied as a terrestrial dry fly for use in bass fly fishing. 
===Wet Fly===
A wet fly is a fly that is fished below the surface of the water.  They are usually tied to imitate the adult or immature form of mobile aquatic insects. The wet fly category covers a vast array of sizes and patterns, from nymphs and streamers to crawfish, leeches, and freshwater shrimp.
===Emerger===
The term Emerger refers to a wet fly that imitates the transitional form of an aquatic insect emerging from its nymphal cocoon into an adult, normally found anywhere from the river bottom to just below the surface. Emergers typically have small vertical wings, with a tail that trails down into the water.
===Nymph===
The term nymph is a type of wet fly that imitates the immature form of an aquatic insect such as the mayfly, damselfly, and dragonfly. Nymphs comprise the  major part of the diet of trout and salmon.  Nymphs are normally fished subsurface, and are often employed to catch fish holding in deeper current.  Nymphs can be weighted or unweighted, and with or without a bead head of brass or tungsten.  Un-weighted nymphs are employed in shallow water, while weighted or beadhead nymphs are used to reach the deeper reaches of a stream or river.
George F. Grant was an early pioneer of nymphs for trout. He began his innovative style of fly-tying in the early 1930s, and patented his unique method in 1939 (U.S. Patent No. 2,178.031). He was one of the first anglers to realize that large trout fed primarily beneath the surface on nymphs -- especially large stone flies -- and that one needed to imitate and learn to fish this insect-stage if one wanted to consistently catch large trout. In recognition for this work he received the Fly Fishing Federation’s coveted Buszek Awardin 1973.
===Bouncer Flies===
Contemporary Design. Snag resistant flies
Innovative, fun, effective and long lasting.
Design can be adapted to many fly patterns.
Developed by Steve Duckett.
===Streamer===
A streamer is a type of wet fly that  typically represents a bait fish or minnow.  Though it can represent various creatures, streamers are usually constructed to represent minnows, sculpin, tadpoles, or other baitfish.  Consequently, they tend to be fished in a more active fashion.  Some are very beautiful, such as salmon or steelhead streamers.  A certain percentage of artificial flies may never be fished, but are instead sought by collectors for their beauty and complexity.
===Others===
There are many other types of fly that may be used, limited only by the imagination and skill of the individual fly-tyer. These include bass bugs, 'sliders', and 'poppers' - surface lures often made of cork, foam, or deer hair.  They may be designed to imitate frogs, mice, or injured baitfish.  
Other fly patterns are tied as wet flies in order to represent different subsurface aquatic creatures such as leeches, crawfish, freshwater shrimp, baby sunfish, or immature game fish such as trout or bass.   Salt water patterns are often created to imitate a baitfish, sand flea, or other saltwater creature.
==Common Patterns==
There are many fly patterns in the world.  A few of the more widely-recognized and common patterns are listed below:
===Dry Fly===

Humpy, Royal Wulff, Adams, Hendrickson, Royal Coachman, Blue Dun, Light Cahill, Stimulator, Black Spinner, Trico, Red Tag, Griffith's Gnat and Elk Hair Caddis
===Emerger===
Klinkhammer, DHE, Shaving Brush, Cripple, Parachutte Adams
===Nymph===
Hare and Copper, Pheasant Tail Nymph, Montana Nymph, Flash Back Nymph, Diawl Bach (Little Devil), Brassie, Copper John
===Wet===
March Brown, Muddler Minnow, Woolly Worm, Invicta, Butcher, Mallard and Claret, Mrs Simpson
===Streamer===
Matuka, Zonker, Lefty's Deceiver, Double Bunny, Egg sucking leech, Clouser Deep Minnow and Woolly Bugger
===Others===
Gurgler (The Gurgler is a versatile surface fly for salt or fresh water, particularly striped bass), Crazy Charlie, Bass Bug, Merkin Crab, Deer Hair Mouse
--Mike Cline (talk) 21:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undertaken a Structural Rewrite of Article 

message: When I originally wrote Dozens several months ago, I feared I was overstating.  By changing the phase to Hundreds, Flyfisher56 confirmed my original mistake.   Originally if there were just hair, fur, feathers, and threads there were just four (4) types of material.  Today there is, in addition to the above, mylar, nylon, rayon, epoxy, silicon, glass (to name some) that can be added to the list of materials available to the fly tier.  That list is hardly in the hundreds.  Indeed, there are an extraordinary amount of variations, colors and permutations of new synthetics, but the basic material list is pretty short.
--Mike Cline (talk) 13:31, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dozens, To Hundreds, to Many types of materials

message: As much as the hatch charts on the Orvis website may be interesting the links to the site were deleted.  The Orvis website is clearly a commercial website and inappropriate for this article.  One might consider creating Eastern and Western Hatch Chart articles with information compiled from notable, but independent non-commercial sources.  I am sure the Orvis hatch charts are extremely bias toward the flies they sell on their website.--Mike Cline (talk) 17:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Eastern/Western Hatch Chart Links to Orvis Website Inappropriate

message: The following text was added to the tools section.  Although it maybe true the only reference was a commercial fly tying site link.  Find a reliable 3rd party published source and them include it.
"According to Leo Pucklis, an expert fly tyer a helpful finishing tool that can be used is the end of a turkey feather"
--Mike Cline (talk) 14:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed Commerical Link Reference from Tools Text 

message: As I was reading through the article, I noticed that it said that:
"The professional, commercial fly tyer may produce upwards 3000 dozen flies annually". 
 
I was just wondering if there was a good reason to use 3000 dozen instead of something like 36000.
It seems to me that it would be more clear to most readers if we simplified this.
Moontumbo (talk) 18:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  3000 dozens of flies 

message: Is there an accepted synonym for "fly tying" we could use in the article so that we repeat it less? Mtthwknnd4 (talk) 04:42, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure there is.  In the 100s of fly fishing and tying books I've read, I don't recall it being referred to by anything except "fly tying" or in the late 19th century, "fly making" (which isn't used today). There are "fly tyers" (fly tiers) but there are no "fly makers". --Mike Cline (talk) 14:25, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synonym 

message: Might markers fit on this page, perhaps in tools? They are helpful in striping while tying or even changing the color of a white fly to something else when fishing and away from the bench. Mlepisto (talk) 18:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Markers? 

message: I have started to shape this article to focus on all aspects of fly tying.   There is another article, Artificial fly, that talks about the types of flys but not how they are tied.  I am not sure if section "Imitation of prey" relates directly to fly tying.   It should probably be in the article  Artificial fly. I added a section on notable Fly tyers, which would relate to fly tying.  The section on tools and material needs to be expanded so that it is understandable to anyone.  Something should be said about technique and the order of applying materials.  Will add more references for this as time permits.  -- Talk to G Moore 23:07, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Focus on fly tying

message: Notable fly tyers are those that have been recognized by major fly tying organizations and publications for their skills and contributions to fly tying.  
-- Talk to G Moore 01:00, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  You can try submitting articles to WP:AFC, but I suspect that most will be rejected as not having sufficient depth-of-coverage from reliable sources. OhNoitsJamie Talk 04:02, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Left the names above for considering writing articles.  Others are in article now.  -- Talk to G Moore 00:41, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable fly tyers

message: The  Wikipedia:WikiProject Fisheries and Fishing doesn't seem to be active.   I made several changes to this page to better explain and illustrate Fly tying.   I add a new Template:Fly fishing to better connect the various fly fishing and fly tying articles.
-- Talk to G Moore 00:37, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Activity