Talk:Classical homeopathy

message: Please add your editions in these versions --Homy 18:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[User:Homy/homeopathy|New outline on homeopathy]] and [[User:Homy/classical homeopathy|classical homeopathy]]

message: I believe and therefore propose that this article should merge with that on Homeopathy. There is merit in discussing different variants of homeopathic practice but WITHOUT POV :-). Ballista 04:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is barely a single paragraph. I am fully in favour of merging. Jefffire 17:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger

message: Now the Classical Homoeopathy page is improving gradually. The contained matters are accurate and according to the principles of Hahnemannian Homoeoapthy.The page should not be merged with the Homoeopathy. User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com11:00 AM IST, 29 June 2006
: I agree that it is not necessary to merge it, it is a separate article, there are some overlaps, but it is separate, this is the classical homeopathy article, it is based on Hahnemannian principles and not the same as modern homeopathy. The worry I have now is that this is not developed fast enough, there is a lot of work left to do, please help Pernambuco 02:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improving gradually 

message: Newly added Miasm section should be removed from this article. This section should be in the Homoeopathy section because it only have historical importance, which is away from the classical Homoeopathic truth. If this section will be included in the classical homoeopathy, it will definitely creat controversy, criticism and other unwanted matters, which is happening in the Homoeopathy pages. I will suggest, if you want to save the classical homoeopathy section from any controversy and ctricism, please only include the academic material and matters. Otherwise the fate of this page will be similar to Homoeopathy page.
User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com  10:45 PM IST 09 Aug 2006
I copied the miasm from homeopathy because miasms are "classical homeopathy", Hahnemann devoted a great part of his life to. It is too specialized for just homeopathy. It could however use more philsophical contents   --Homy 14:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miasm remove 

message: The unnecessary duplication and sometimes blatant copying of the content of the main homeopathy page seem to indicate this page is simply a POV fork. Comments in Homeopathy talk page. TimVickers 21:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV fork? 

message: What is not neutral ?  --Homy 15:00, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have a look at Law of Minimum: The Minimal Dose or Theory of Chronic Diseases A simple question for you, are these written from a neutral perspective or do they present anything and everything written by Hahnemann as self-evident truth? TimVickers 16:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It should be fixed and the tagging of this article removed, ok, because it is unfair to have this label on the article since august of 2006, too long a time. Pernambuco 13:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality

message: To avoid the controversy on Homoeopathic matters, whatever they may be, at present some world class Homoeopaths are still alive like Dr. George Vithaulkas and Dr. Rajan Shankaran. Both are master mind Homoeopaths and have command on the Homoeopathic Philosophy and on whole Hahnemannian concept of Homoeopathy. I will request both the doctors to come forward and lend their opinion on the controversy. I will also request to both the doctors to complete the Homoeopathy page for the benefit of entire interested readers.
User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com  00:15 AM IST 30 August 2006
::Do you think practicing homeopaths are likely to have a neutral point of view on homeopathy? Should practicing psychics be called in to write the Wikipedia article on physic powers? TimVickers 18:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Studies on homeopathy and clinical trials of its efficacy are available here PubMed TimVickers 15:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alive Homoeopaths GV and RS 

message: This article is v badly in need of thorough revision...I will try to add in new sources as I go through it in future days, and as time permits. Peter morrell 16:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: "Even Vithoulkas has expressed "dissatisfaction with the concept of miasms" "
The link (which doesn't work directly) is to an article quoting Ch. 9. of "Science of Homeopathy" where GV applauds Hahnemann's miasm theory, but is unhappy with the way homeopaths have handled it since Hahnemann. Removed. Jedermann 13:48, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: not sure about the revert BUT I am waiting for a reply from someone who told me that GV was not that bothered about miasms and had said [so I was told] that they are not so important in the practice of homeopathy because finding the patient totality and remedy is much MORE important...which might indeed be a valid point...once I have a reply, I can hopefully amend the point in question. It might be better as articles are being worked on for folks to just place "citation needed" in a bracket next to a contenious point rather than keep edit warring...then things might be more amicably settled. What do you say Jedermann? Peter morrell 16:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine by me, as  is one of my frequent edits. But this one had a citation that undermined the statement. What then? Perhaps  :-) Jedermann 17:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, fine by me here too .... Pernambuco 21:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vithoulkas and miasms 

message: How do you edit the Topics box at the bottom of the article, e.g.
Related therapies: Anthroposophy - Bach flower remedies- Herbalism - Isopathy - Toxicology - Traditional medicine 
There are a number of errors: Anthroposophy = Anthroposophical Medicine, Toxicology isn't a therapy (probably meant Homotoxicology)
Thanks Jedermann 17:21, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Topics box query 

message: It is not a good idea on any article to simply remove links. Who says they are bad? The rajesh shah article is a good one and the person who wishes to remove them should seek consensus rather than just impolitely removing them...which is just rude vandalism. Peter morrell 18:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a discussion on another page where people always fight, and they were fighting over links, and kept removing them and adding them. so finally I had to revert everyone, they best way is to discuss the links first, before you add and before you remove, and that is what this discussion page is for Pernambuco 15:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of valid links

message: In general practice of Homoeopathy, miasms are not playing any proper role and is therefore useless and have no much more importancy. Generally, prescriptions of Homoeopathy is based on the Causation- the causative factor of the present illness, weather conditions, foods intake,habits, female or male sexual behaviours etc. Most of the complaints occurs due to change of weather, which causes stress conditons in body due to abnormal metabolism, which causes diseases, unless and until some specific reasons are not traced out, for example Thyroiditis etc. The theory of miasms laid down by the Hahnemann, which define Psora, Sycosis and Syphilis, is only dependent upon the concept of Hahnemann, which he percieved during the treatment of the chronic diseases. The problem with the miasms are that whatever the Hahnemann have observed is one sided and the theory is not confirmed by any other observer or Homoeopathic scientist. The other reason is that whatever the concept of miams are present, should it be applicable to all over the globe? Different countries have different weather conditions, food habits, some are vegetarians , some are non-vegetarians, some are pure vegetarians, so that affects the miasmatic conditions. Psora which is known as Itch, is a common diseases condition, which is corelated by the Hahnemann as a miasmatic condition.
Yes, during course of Homoeopathic treatment, I personally have found some patients, who have Muscular problems, Arthritis, Asthama, Chronic Bronchitis, Psycosomatic problems, Somatopsychic problems and other disease syndromes etc, who during treatment repelled the skin eruptions like, urticaria, eczema, skin rashes, boils, anomaly of blood at one side but other side they relieved/cured with their complaints for which they came. I donot know about the other persons experiences about it. But here the theory of suppression of the eruptions , which is given by the Hahnemann, seems true. I think that Hahnemann's much stress on the "Suppression of eruptions" is his own observation depend upon the practice, which he gained from the patients during their treatment. Suppression of Itch is related to Psora Miasma, suppression of Gonorrhoea is related to Sycosis miasma and suppression of Syphilis is related to Syphilitic miasma. Hahnemnn's keen observation might saw during the treatment of their patients that the diseases is cured after reappearing of the Itch or Gonorrhoea or Syphilitic discharges, which was earlier treated by the Allopathic medicines, which suppressed the syndromes and causes another disease condition in a new form. 
I have seen practically often patients i.e. Colic is better by joints pain. when joints pain is treated again colic appears. Mental irritability increases when mucous colitis is better, but irritability decreases when colitis reappear again. Bronchitis is better when urticarial rashes appears, when suppresses by antihistamines, again bronchitis appears. There are many examples, I am seeing in the practice but I can not say exactly with the phenomenon which creates the problem. Might be due to metabolism, might be due to hormonal, might be due to autonomic nervous system , might be due to anomaly of blood. 
We cannot ignore the reality, which we see every day. On the other side, there is problem of Evidence based medicine.
===Minute differences===
The Homoeopathic medicine can be changed immediately, if physisican finds a very thin minute changes in the case history. This minute differences create problems for selection of the Single medicine. The problem is with the patient that Homoeopaths asks so many questions to patient, which irritates them. Absurd questions which have no means for the patient, is asked like Dreams. One patient came to me and he narrated that he sees dreams of drawning in Ganges River once in a night every day. I thought that there is something with the patient history that might create the problem with the sick. I questioned with him and consumed time to probe the matter. Lastly I concluded that his house was situated at the bank of the Ganges river. In his childhood, he saw a Yaught drowned in the heavy current of the Ganges during the season of flood. A large number of the people drowned in the water of Ganges. The accident was seen lively by the patient. I concluded that the event left deep impression in the mind of the patient. Thats why he sees the dreams of drowning every night during sleep. We should not forget the prooving of the drugs during whih so many unsusual, strange, rare, peculiar sympoms came from the recording of the patient. Ofcourse these symptoms may have imrortancy but can not take place over the causative factors. In Homoeopathic practice causative factors have main and lead role for selection of medicine. This fact is essential for the all medical sciences. Allopathy, western medicine also consider the causative factors, it may be  infectious agents, it may be pathophysiological impact of the organs, it may be cellular or tissue problems but causation is the prime one. Every medical science consider causation , how , why, where, when,what,since, from, after etc ? 
user:debbe,06:30 UTC, 23 December 2006 
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Debbe (talk • contribs) 12:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversies on Miasm 

message: The Homoeopathic medicine can be changed immediately, if physisican finds a very thin minute changes in the case history. This minute differences create problems for selection of the Single medicine. The problem is with the patient that Homoeopaths asks so many questions to patient, which irritates them. Absurd questions which have no means for the patient, is asked like Dreams. One patient came to me and he narrated that he sees dreams of drawning in Ganges River once in a night every day. I thought that there is something with the patient history that might create the problem with the sick. I questioned with him and consumed time to probe the matter. Lastly I concluded that his house was situated at the bank of the Ganges river. In his childhood, he saw a Yaught drowned in the heavy current of the Ganges during the season of flood. A large number of the people drowned in the water of Ganges. The accident was seen lively by the patient. I concluded that the event left deep impression in the mind of the patient. Thats why he sees the dreams of drowning every night during sleep. We should not forget the prooving of the drugs during whih so many unsusual, strange, rare, peculiar sympoms came from the recording of the patient. Ofcourse these symptoms may have imrortancy but can not take place over the causative factors. In Homoeopathic practice causative factors have main and lead role for selection of medicine. This fact is essential for the all medical sciences. Allopathy, western medicine also consider the causative factors, it may be  infectious agents, it may be pathophysiological impact of the organs, it may be cellular or tissue problems but causation is the prime one. Every medical science consider causation , how , why, where, when,what,since, from, after etc ? 
user:debbe,06:30 UTC, 23 December 2006 
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Debbe (talk • contribs) 12:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Minute differences

message: During the life time of Hahnemann, he himself used two medicine in alternation. Infact Hahnemann was suffering from the Bronchial Asthama. This was the major problem with him, by which he was suffering within his whole lifetime. He died lastly with the severe attack of the Bronchial Asthama. He have written about the alternation of two medicine in some references which he used. Dr. Von Boeninghausen was in favour of the alternation of two medicine. Once, Hahnemann accepted the advocacy of Boenninghausen for alternation of two medicine, but other followers of Hahnemann at that time opposed this idea vigourously. It is also said that Hahnemann made some changes in the fifth edition of Organon and advocated in a Para/Aphorism for advocating the idea of Alternation of two medicines. But due to heavy opposition of that times Homoeopaths , Hahnemann geared back, and left the idea.
user:Debbe, 02:00 UTC, 24 December 2006
: I made a rewrite of the section that listed the main Hahnemann publications, but I would like if someone with better English can look at it, Pernambuco 23:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hahnemann himself used two medicine in Alternation 

message: There are so many disease conditions where Homoeopathic treatment can be prooved boon to the patient. Some of the conditions are where surgical treatment is essential but in these conditions Homoeopathy can help a lot to avoid the surgery.
* Renal stones, Hydronephrosis, Kidney disorders, Nephropathy
* Boils and abscess
* Gall bladder inflammatory conditions, Cholecystitis, Cholelethiasis, Sludge in gallbladder, swelling of gall bladder, stone in gall bladder below 4 mm/5mm size
* piles, heamorrhoids,
* some nature of cyst and glands
* Hard glands, inflamation of mammery glands
* Tonsillitis, uvalitis, throat and vocal cord problems
* Fractures simple type, cracking bones
* Enlarged Prostate, Prostate hypertrophy
* some types of cancer or cancerous growth in mouth, cheeks, skin, uterus and othet organs
* blockage of  arteries/veins, blood clotting in arteries 
* any other disease conditions which requires surgery except immediate surgical intervention
Regarding renal stones and some kidney problems like cyst in kidney, calcium deposite in kidney, hydronephrosis conditions can be avoided surgical interference by the use of Homoeopathic medicines. But it is depend upon the caliber and the expertisation of the Homoeopathic physician experiences. Ordinary Homoeopathic physician or those who are not having sufficient experineces for tackling these condtions will alway fail to cure or relieve the patient. So it is necessary that Homoeopathic physician must be an expertise, that is the primery requirement.
As I have already noted the list of the surgical disease conditions, which can be treated by the Homoeopathic medicine, is depend upon the experiences, which I have gained in my over 36 years of the Homoeopathic and Ayurvedic practice. Besides these, there is some other disease conditions, where surgical intervention may be, must be treated with Homoeopathic medicine.
In case of acute emergency, surgical interference is necessary and should be adopted.
user:debbe 18 January 2007
: this is a good list and I like the last two that you added now (today) debbe, this really makes the list very complete now, it is great for the article Pernambuco 18:20, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homoeopathy in surgical disease conditions 

message: I moved this here:
: Classical homepathy is told to be a homeopathy following tightly Hahnemann philosophy and the procedures and practises of classic homeopaths like Kent. But in fact it is hard to say were the boundaries are exactly layed of classical homeopthy. Is the isopathy a classical homeopathy? Maybe not. 
: Classical homeopathy like the homeopathy itself has several different schools. For example the English and German homeopathic schools are classical, and the French non-classical. There are different followers of both classical and non-classical homeopathy around the world.
: For exaple most homeopaths use pure (one substance made of) remedies of Boiron to prescribe classicaly.
I would like to know, should it be added? Pernambuco 18:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homeopathic schools 

message: Hahnemann in his Organon of Medicine has very clearly writes that  “obstacle to cure” must be consider by their followers. If physician will fail to observe these obstacles, he will somehow fail to cure, as it is termed for “ideal of cure”.
I will mention here a examples from my practice.
About 30 years back, one lady, wife of a Military officer, came for consultation of her complaints. It is a big story but I will try to nutshell it. She was suffering from Severe Urticaria from last four months. Primarily she was treated in the local DH. After one month treatment she did not have any relief and then sent to the Area Hospital. Again about one month treatment in area Hospital without any relief , referred  to AIIMS. Two months treatment could not relieved any more to her. Recommending for Homoeopathic treatment one junior officer consulted me about her condition. She came to my clinic. She was very badly suffering with the Urticaria. Her body was full of Urticarial eruptions along with the severe itching in her whole body. It was a terrible condition of the patient and I had never seen this type of Urticarial problems even till today. I noted all the symptoms and what I best can do, I done. I told the family members that she will get relief within a week, as was my previous experience about Urticaria. One week passed without any relief. Again I consoled the family member that further one week treatment will relieve her. Some time it happens that late relief may possible. By this way, one month has passed without any relief. The patient was in severe anxiety about her complaints, so was the condition of the family members. Round over 40 days, when she did not got relief, it was a time of my anxiety. I was doing all what I can do within my capacity. I consulted to some senior Homoeopaths but all failed. One day I thought that I should scrutinize the case very minutely. I gave her time with a batch of undergraduate Homoeopathic students and I and students ask her so many questions. Round about two hours I spent in the interview and ask about the details of her complaints but I could not find any exact cause of the suffering. I was consulting the books simultaneously. I found in a book of Homoeopathy that “Pessaries”, which is used for contraception, may cause Urticaria. I ask the lady whether she is using Pessaries. Her husband replied that she is not using Pessaries, but using “loop” or say intrauterine contraceptive device. I advised her husband for “urgent” and “immediate” removal of the device. 
The day was Sunday. Next day, on Monday, the lady was 60 percent relieved and another next day, on Tuesday, 90 percent and within four days she was relived her almost symptoms. The Military officer asks me to take the fee and charges. I ask him that I have not given you any medicine, so no charge at all. And you are serving the Nation, so no consultation fees.
After this example I became very cautious about the obstacles of cure, which hinder the way of recovery. 
User:debbe, 09 February 2007, o8:10 AM
: I have heard about similar examples, this is something that I need to find a way so we can use it in the article, it is also good that you gave the reference to the book, let us work on this!!! Pernambuco 15:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  :: I strongly suggest that these kinds of examples are NOT used in the article. What exactly are you trying to prove with them? I think a simple statement that allopathic medicine can have deleterious effects on the human system is sufficient (which the allopaths fully acknowlege with their definition of side effects). We want to discuss the theory and background of Classical Homeopathy, not act as someone's private little casebook, nor get into a slanging match with allopathic practitioners (which is how something like that example could be read). Trxi 01:24, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Both of you raise some good points, I think I'll let Debbe answer since she is really more of the specialist here, ok. But trxi, what do you say, could you prefer if this is a separate article? and the examples go there...... and not here.... Pernambuco 02:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hahnemannian view about obstacle to cure 

message: I see there are a bunch of suggestions about splitting off some of the sections of this page, and given excessive length of it, no wonder. However, by cutting it down to its essentials, we won't need to do any splitting, and we also can maintain the content that is unique to the topic of Classical Homeopathy.
Going by sections:
* Retain "Originators" - although give it a different name. It's a clumsy term.
* Retain "Definition", but change the rest of the title to "Variations of Class. Hom." ("deviations" is not the correct word). However, get rid of the lengthy Vithoulkas quote and summarise its content - that he thinks that "dreams, whims" etc are a poor ground for students to base their prescribing on.
* What is "Genesis of Homeopathy" doing here? A brief summary should suffice, and the reader can be directed to the main homeopathy page for more info (which is where that content should be... in a shorter form - the lengthy discussion of Hahnemann's proving of Chincona is a waste of space).
* Organon is fine
* Homeopathic principles should probably be renamed "Principles of Classical Homeopathy", and it could certainly be trimmed of junk (the miasms section is way too long), but most of this section is excellent.
* "Requisite qualification"... is clumsy English (easy enough to fix). I don't think it's a necessary section either, although I don't have wild objections to it.
* Casetaking is important, but instead of quoting at length from the Organon, a link to the relevant sections, and a summary of what the aims are should be sufficent
* "Homoeopathy in surgical disease conditions"?? What is this doing here? the only point that needs to be made is that homeopathy can treat many illnesses/disorders, both acute and chronic, and also assist the body with general healing. We do not need an exhaustive list here. This is supposed to be a general article on the theory and practice of Classical Homeopathy, not a guide to homeopathic treatment.
* Selection of the Medicine could be included in the Casetaking section
* The references to Hahemann's works are unnecessary here, and I also think they should be split off from the main Hahnemann article as well. Who needs to know about all the editions of the Organon?
* The history of the repetory should be in the main Homeopathy article. It is not peculiar to Class. Hom.
A brief discussion on the controversialness of homeopathy is also in order.
Before this sounds like a lot of complaining, I am glad to see the amount of text that people have contributed to this, especially compared to when I last looked at the page some time back. But rather than it looking like an attempt of quacks to justify themselves, a big tidy-up would make this page look a lot more "encyclopedic". I'm very happy to implement the changes I've suggested, but I don't want to tread on anyone's toes. I will put up a suggested "revised" edition up on Writely (or similar) for people to have a look at to see how it will look - I'll put the link here once I've done it. Trxi 01:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: start with the first item, you said, Retain "Originators" - although give it a different name. It's a clumsy term., I agree, what is a better name, precursors is something but maybe many people dont know what it is Pernambuco 17:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page needs a lot of work