Talk:Al Jib

message: A few quick internet searches shows that nothing in the previous history section was that extraordinary.  There are tons of sources to choose from.  I probably didn't pick the best two Bible sources, they were just the first in Google for a search, but it is the first time I've tried to cite something to the Bible, there are probably more authoritative/standard sources people on Wikipedia use.  Also I sourced some of it to the Britannica article on al-Jib / Gibeon (its the same thing on Britannica), which probably isn't good form.  Feel free to help out, and find better citations Jayjg, as you seem to be quite experienced with Wikipedia.  --Abnn 03:49, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New attempt at a history section

message: Almost everything from Tiamut's original text has been confirmed via other sources except for two things:
* I did a number of searches but I can't find any information on Yaqut al-Hamawi mentioning "two fortresses" in his 1225 book.
* And I didn't find anything about the spiral staircase "descending into the cistern was probably built by the Crusaders in the 11th or 12th century CE along with a Crusader-era church" although I did find the following from the Palestinian Hydrology Group website:
::"The water system at Al Jib consists of a huge pool cut into the live rock, (diameter, 11:8m and 24.4m deep). A spiral staircase was cut along the north and east sides of the pool. At the bottom of the pool is a tunnel to provide access to the fresh water lying 24.4m below the level of the city. The spiral staircase consists of seventy-nine steps. Digging the pool involved the quarrying and removal of approximately 3,000 tons of limestone. The second device for obtaining water in times of siege is the stepped tunnel that leads from inside the city wall to the village's spring. The construction of this passageway of ninety-three steps through the hill was made later in the Iron Age (around 900 B.C), perhaps at a time when the flow of water into the water chamber of the pool was inadequate."
--Abnn 05:05, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Loose ends

message: I am very reluctant to pass judgement on Shahin's book since I have never seen it.  However, one solution to the problem is to replace it with sources that are less open to dispute.  I have succeeded in tracking down scholarly sources for everything quoted here from Shahin except for this: "A spiral staircase descending into the cistern was probably built by the Crusaders in the 11th or 12th century CE along with a Crusader-era church."  Pitchford dated the spiral staircase much earlier and several recent archaeological encyclopedias that I consulted did not dispute that.  So I plan to omit that detail and rewrite everything else based on the sources I found. --Zerotalk 09:56, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the case of noncontroversial claims the use of Shahin is not problematic from the POV aspect, but rather from the factual one, as it seems now that there aren't any citations in the work. For all the controversy we've come to a much better article, though I think that at least part of this information might be more appropriate at the linked Gibeon entry. What do others think? TewfikTalk 20:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It may make sense to merge the two articles together.  Britannica only has one article.  As it stands the Gibeon seems to deal only with the bible aspect, but it had a history long before and a long time after that.  I would look to Bethlehem and how they worked its storied history and its current state into one rich article.  --Abnn 23:56, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Large cities like Bethlehem or Jerusalem are the exceptions. Most biblical places are split from their modern successors because there is usually a long break in the actual habitation such that they are two different entities, rather than an evolution, and some times (not relevant in this case) the connection isn't certain. TewfikTalk 00:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Either way Tewfik, I'm pretty easy going on these types of matters.  If there is no merge, I think we can look to the precedent of Nablus vs. Shechem for one type of solution.  Coincidentally, there is a multipage long argument on the talk page of Nablus on how to handle it.  --Abnn 01:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Between this and Zero's remarks on Gibeon, I WP:Boldly merged. The only significant change was my removal of redundant passages regarding the archaeology's contradiction of the Biblical account re: the dating, which appeared three times. TewfikTalk 03:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute over sources 

message: ...is she WP:RS?  I see her here, and as self-employed tour-guide and historian, according to her linkedin. Not the best. There should be better sources. Huldra (talk) 20:58, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, so I am re-asking this question. According to this Dr Shalom-Brooks Simcha is a tour-guide. What did she gain her doctorate in? I cannot see that she has been discussed in WP:RS/N, perhaps that is the place to raise the issue (if we cannot get any clear answers here)? Huldra (talk) 22:35, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  The preface of her book indicates a relevant academic eduction, though strangely her degree institution is not named. She has some academic publications (check Scholar). Zerotalk 02:32, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:   Simcha Shalom Brooks 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Let's go through all modern Israeli locations and write in the lead of their articles which Palestinian village occupied the same spot only 74 years ago. I know you won't. But somehow it is fine for you to put ancient identifications from thousands of years ago in the lead. Historical information about a site does belong in both cases, but the appropriate place is the history section. The exception is archaeological sites whose only notability is their history. Zerotalk 12:23, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancient identifications in the lead