Talk:Recreation and Amusement Association

message: This whole page needs a re-write; it's just not written very well. The grammar is clunky, the capitalization is random, and the concept is not clearly put forth. 76.186.74.106 06:36, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: Someone put a citation to Amino Yoshihiko on SCAP rape. Amino is a medieval historian (arguably one of Japan's most famous), and the book cited is on medieval history. Nothing to do on SCAP.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Konamaiki (talk • contribs) 01:19, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: I took out the dubious citations

message: I finished my rewrite/expansion of the article. It could still use a little work, since I don't think it flows as well as it should, but it's good enough for now. Let me know if there are any concerns or if you think any sections need expansion. Cckerberos (talk) 05:21, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That is an impressive re-write. I might make some minor adjustments, to syntax or punctuation, if you don't mind, but the content looks solid. Great job. Boneyard90 (talk) 08:19, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Feel free, of course. I was pretty tired when I finished it, so I'm sure there are things that need to be corrected. Cckerberos (talk) 17:33, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion 

message: This doesn't really relate to this article topic, but I thought it might be appropriate to mention it to the community of editors interested in this topic area. Prompted by a recent edit here popping up on my watchlist, I did a bit of googling which led me to this. I recall seeing copies of some of these and some similar publications in USAF Base Exchanges in Japan in the mid 1960s. As I've said, I don't think this fits here, but it might fit in some other article in this general topical area. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 12:39, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post-RAA US military culture re Japanese women 

message: Since my editing of Syngmung's additions were largely reverted, I figured I'd explain my rationale here. To me, the wording "The charge to the American soldiers was eight cents, and that included a bottle of beer. Women received half this charge, and the house received the half." seemed redundant as the same paragraph already mentioned that the charge was 100 yen of which the women received 50. The new version is better at reducing the redundancy, but is misleading because it removes mention of the 100 yen and implies that soldier paid 8 cents. The US soldiers paid in yen they received on base in order to restrict access of the Japanese population to foreign currency (this was before the introduction of the military yen scrip in the summer of 1946). I also didn't see the point of "On the first day, one woman had 47 American customers and got almost 2 dollars for herself" since the paragraph already mentions that each woman saw 15-60 clients a day; the mentioned women's experience doesn't seem to be unusual. The 2 dollars is just the prior mentioned 4 cents x 47 ($1.88). Cckerberos (talk) 06:20, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The charge contained a bottle of beer is detail imformation. If you know the a bottle of beer price at the time, it will provide more detail imformation. How many GI have been dealed by women in a day is important thing, which help us to know their working conditions and earning.--Syngmung (talk) 07:46, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a fair point about the beer bottle and it should be worked back in. I wish I knew what Kristof's source was for the 8 cent conversion, though. I agree with you that the number of soldiers a woman had to deal with each day is important and shows their working conditions. But since the article mentions that each woman "had between 15 and 60 clients per day", that information is already there. Cckerberos (talk) 12:28, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The woman earned 2 dollars, your contents could not explain the case. There are some sources I dont want but I can also say there is the contents by NYT, and which is more important than yours, so yours is not needed. But there are differece between two sources, so I think both contents should be writen.--Syngmung (talk) 13:23, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the reduction in redundancy. If the average rate of clients per woman per day is stated, then pointing out a specific case later in the article is unnecessary, and seems to be playing up the shock value. Both sources can be cited at the first mention of client rate and earnings. Boneyard90 (talk) 14:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Is "between 15 and 60 clients per day" average? Both sources can only mention only the one soldier charge.--Syngmung (talk) 16:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The text says "usually", and the sentence cites three sources. If that is the "usual" rate of clients/day, I am satisfied that "usual", in the descriptive or colloquial sense, is synonymous with "average", which was what I said in my comment. Not sure what the issue or question is. Boneyard90 (talk) 16:42, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: We can get average charge from some sources, but not average dealing numbers. NYT do not provide the average numbers. 47 men dealt woman case should be written.--Syngmung (talk) 12:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

text: There is no difference in sources, since the 47 soldiers mentioned by Kristof falls within the range given in the other source. The range is actually better, because it gives us an idea of what things were like for all the women rather than for one individual. We know that some women served even more than 47 soldiers, for example. Which of the sources already in the article do you not like? Shirakawa's book isn't great, but the rest are academic publications. Cckerberos (talk) 12:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Working Conditions Change Explanation 

message: I'm removing the recently added section on Hashimoto's recent statement about US military personnel in Japan and prostitution. It just doesn't seem to have anything to do with the long-gone RAA other than a similar "sex and soldiers" theme. If he was suggesting the establishment of a similar system that would be one thing, but Hashimoto just said that US soldiers should be allowed to use the already existing sexual establishments. As such, the United States Forces Japan page seems like a better place for it. Also, the first quote listed is in reference to Japanese troops in WW2, not US soldiers. Cckerberos (talk) 11:54, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - he obviously wasn't calling for the resurrection of this institution. Nick-D (talk) 11:58, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hashimoto's statement 

message: I saw the recent edit/reversion by Binksternet and Oda Mari. I think the original language is preferable but thought it better to write out my rationale here rather than try to put it into the edit summary. First, I'm inclined towards the original language because it is a direct quote from Konoe. Second, "prostitution system" is ambiguous as there was already an officially sanctioned prostitution system in Japan at the time. Something like "a specialized prostitution system for Allied personnel" would be better. Cckerberos (talk) 21:35, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. See  I think that it is WP:OR ("analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not advanced by the sources") to obscure and deny the use of the term "Comfort Women" in this regard. It is not WP:NPOV.  Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:53, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

text: Concur. We should use the terms used in reliable sources. Instead, we should have some language that clarifies that this use of "comfort women" is different than literature which covers the comfort women in imperial japan. But whitewashing language? no.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 00:22, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: We already have a section discussing the use of the term. --Cckerberos (talk) 18:03, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

text: Yes, I also found another source which details the payment systems for the comfort women in imperial japan. This prostitute/prostitution categories are appropriate there too, though forced prostitution is a more apt description. binksternet seems to want to draw a sharp line between pre-war and post-war systems even though reliable sources regularly link the two together and the second was of course inspired by the first.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 18:13, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Comfort woman system" vs. "prostitution system"