Talk:British Rail Class 395

message: *This news page on Southeastern's offical site
*this page advertising for a depot manager, 
*this PDF (second last bullet on PDF page 18/document page 16) on Network Rail's site. Thryduulf 22:26, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The last two links above no longer work, I will remove them if no-one objects. Rayhol (talk) 18:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources for Class 395 designation

message: This page now states that services will begin in 2009, and that they will begin after the 2012 Olympics. Which is correct? David Arthur 23:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Very good question. CTRL part 2 opens this November IIRC, but the stock (395's) for CTRL-DS are still being built. IIRC the new Integrated Kent Franchise timetable is coming in in 2009 so that would make sense, but how the new CTRL-DS services will work with the Olympic Javelin is a good question too. Pickle 16:04, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's absolutely no scope for speculation on this one. The plans for a 2009 start are pretty much set in stone, the trains have been ordered, and special platforms at St Pancras built. The 2012 claim was added by an anonymous user who's never posted anywhere else, and I've removed it. --82.45.163.4 12:56, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: "Many in the industry do not think this will be viable, especially for services which leave the CTRL at Ebbsfleet and travel via the North Kent Line, and so it is likely that some will be transferred to the East Coast Main Line at some point.[citation needed]"  This has been added recently, without a source, as noted.
While I agree with the contributor that many in the industry do think the service won't be an economic success and will be unpopular with passengers, I don't know of anyone who has gone as record as saying so.  I doubt, anyway, that the trains would be redeployed, I suspect it's more likely that South Eastern will seek a renegotiation of the franchise to cover the extra costs of running the service at a loss.  I think the comment should be removed until we can find something to back it up.  Any objections? Rayhol (talk) 19:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It’s unsourced speculation; unless we can turn this ‘many in the industry’ into a specific person or article, it doesn’t belong in Wikipedia. David Arthur (talk) 20:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Viability

message: It is actually very unusual to find a modern mainline train with internally fitted sliding doors; plug doors, with a flush finish are the norm, especially on high speed trains, as they improve aerodynamics and reduce noise, especially when passing other trains (they avoid the suction effect).
Whatever the Bullet has done for 40 years does not concern us here; plug doors are not 'notoriously unreliable' - though initial installations were - and many UK trains have very high miles per casualty despite having plug doors.
If Hitachi were unhappy with the UK doors, there's plenty of European versions with about forty years experience and development of plug doors, and I'd b surprised if an advanced engineering nation like Japan has no version of their own - though I have no knowledge of their other train designs.
The truth is almost certainly a cost issue, not a reliability one, and it's a shame to criticise UK engineering with no evidence to back it up. Heenan73 (talk) 16:34, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the "unusual for high-speed trains" statement, as it is clearly not true from a global perspective. Unfortunately, I don't have any references to hand to back this up, but I suspect the reason is indeed reliability based - not cost. Flush plug doors were introduced on some Japanese shinkansen trains delivered in the late 1990s, but these were indeed unreliable in service (as I believe are plug doors in the UK), which resulted in later trains reverting to conventional (non-flush) doors. I don't know how much this increases exterior (and interior) noise, but environmental noise is a serious problem for Japanese shinkansen trains (preventing speed increases on some lines), so this wouldn't have been a decision made lightly. Also, reliability of doors is not something that would be revealed by "miles per casualty" figures unless door failures actually take trains out of service. In Japan, any failure that causes a delay of even 30 seconds is unacceptable, which is why plug doors were deemed insufficiently reliable for use on shinkansen trains and hence the class 395 products. I hope this provides some background to the situation. --DAJF (talk) 01:48, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Doors

message: Regarding this edit, I note that the number of seats is given as 354 and 348 in a few different places, both appear on southeastern's website. I've contacted southeastern asking that they attempt to clarify this issue and so hopefully, as a result, the southeastern website will soon have the correct information but there will be other sources which differ. I wonder if the discrepancy might have occurred as the design of the trains has altered slightly over time. Adambro (talk) 11:41, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of seats 

message: This does seem to be persistent. I added the Railway Herald and Modern Railways a about a week ago. I now notice that 31 December edition of Rail Magazine has it on the front cover. A google of javelin train gives the following recent news items:
*
*
*
and a website [Javelin Train]. I will wait and see if the British Olympic Association moves to protect its trademark. Edgepedia (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether or not SE are allowed to call the trains Javelins or not, they are known by most people as Javelins. This should be indicated near the start of the article in bold. Btline (talk) 00:52, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I did have a comment near the top about the name, but it was reverted out. Because of the trademark issue, I do think it needs to be treated differently to say the Class 442 Wessex Electric, and not be in the header. I was going to see what happened over the year in the local press and railway press with this name before suggesting it went back in. Edgepedia (talk) 07:43, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect a lot of the coverage will be suspiciously similar to whatever Wikipedia says! There does seem a strong chance of "Javelin" becoming like hoover and sellotape etc. That Javelin Train website looks very unofficial, and at least some of its text appears to be taken from Wikipedia.  Statements like "The new fleet of Hitachi Class 395 Javelin Trains will be able to accelerate rapidly to 140mph as part of the Eurostar service through the tunnel" don't inspire confidence. Wheeltapper (talk) 11:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I would most definitely agree that this name should be mentioned prominently in the opening sentence of the article. As Btline has said, whether or not Southeastern can legally call these trains Javelins is completely irrelevant and so this edit puzzles me, particularly since it being trademarked by the Olympic organisers doesn't mean that Southeastern couldn't have been granted a license to use it. It looks certain that Southeastern's services for the games will be branded the Javelin and so it would seem pretty likely that they are going to or already have some kind of permission to use the name. The term Javelin has been used very widely now across numerous media articles and so it is appropriate to mention this as an alternative name for the class. When I attended the Hitachi depot at Ashford early last year on a visit to look at these new trains, a question was asked about the Javelin name and it was explained that this has no official standing from Hitachi's point of view. Adambro (talk) 12:53, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Hi Adambro ... it was you that removed my edit explaining that these trains are sometimes called Javelins. . I agree with Wheeltapper that Javelin does at the moment seem to be the same as sellotape and hoover. My thought is that if we refer to this train as a Javelin ... which we have enough reliable sources to do so (even the BBC gets it 'wrong'!), for balance we need to mention on this page that Javelin is a trademark of the BDA ... who speak in latest publications about the JavelinTM service taking people from Central London to Stratford. Edgepedia (talk) 18:52, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do we have to mentioned that the BDA have trademarked Javelin if we note that is a name often used to describe the trains? You suggest we do but I don't see why. I reverted that edit for that reason and also because it was already mentioned that Southeastern were going to operate the trains on HS1 and you had also added a circular link back to this page. It is right, perhaps not in the opening sentence though, to mention that the Javelin name comes from the service of that name they will operate but it seems unnecessary to say that Javelin is trademarked by the BDA. That doesn't suddenly mean that Javelin isn't a name used to refer to the trains themselves. Adambro (talk) 20:20, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

text: I agree with the general principle, but I’m sceptical that a train which hasn’t even entered service actually has a common name. For a name to be common enough to justify giving it precedence over official ones, it needs to be known to more than just a couple of forums or the trainspotter community – otherwise, we’d quickly find ourselves with articles that said thinks like ‘A Shed is a type of locomotive…’. David Arthur (talk) 21:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think you need to be too concerned, I don't think anyone is suggesting with elevate "Javelin" to the same level as its official designation, the Class 395, rather simply mentioning it more prominently than it perhaps was. The "Javelin" name is much more significant than just being known within the rail trainspotter community, numerous media articles use it. Adambro (talk) 21:54, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I just think it’s a bit early to be drawing conclusions about what the train’s common name is – to endorse one at this stage would potentially influence rather than just reflect people’s mode of discussing it. David Arthur (talk) 23:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: When this train was first announced back in 2007(?) I seem to remember Hitachi called it the Javlin. (note the spelling). 86.141.117.162 (talk) 14:08, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I work alongside Hitachi engineers who maintain this stock, and it is only ever referred to as the 395, either in conversation, or in documentation. Southeastern do likewise. 2p0rk (talk) 13:06, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Javelin Nickname 

message: Please remember that within Britain, by law, miles per hour is the primary measurement that the railways are measured by. Not Kilometers as one user is insisting. We've had this discussion over on the High Speed One talkpage, which is the only current exception. Kilometers are to be included obviously, but as the secondary measurement, not the primary, just like every other article regarding British-focused trains. While there may be some crying for a 'metricisation' or some such ideals, the primary measurements it was built by are the most accurate to use, it seems silly to put the kilometers first and then watch the covert code switch it back over (sometimes slightly inaccurately at that, making the statistics less accurate through needless extra conversion exercises). This shouldn't still be such a mystery to (re)solve. Kyteto (talk) 23:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miles per hour 

message: I added the a list of the names of the named trains, and removed the list, which was unreferenced.
Number 	Name
395 001	Dame Kelly Holmes Double Olympic Champion
395 002	Sebastian Coe Double Olympic Gold Medallist
395 003	Sir Steve Redgrave Five Time Olympic Gold Medallist
395 004	Sir Chris Hoy Triple Olympic Gold Medallist Beijing 2008
395 005	Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson 11 Paralympic Gold Medallist
395 006	Daley Thompson Double Olympic Gold Medallist
395 007	Steve Backley Double Silver Olympic Medallist
395 008	Ben Ainslie Triple Olympic Gold and Silver Medallist
395 009	Rebecca Adlington Double Olympic Gold Medallist Beijing 2008
395 010	Duncan Goodhew Olympic Gold Medallist and Bronze Medallist
395 011	Katherine Grainger Olympic Gold Medallist and Three Time Silver Medallist
395 012	
395 013	
395 014	
395 015	
395 016	Jamie Staff Olympic Champion Men's Team Sprint Beijing 2008
395 017	Dame Sarah Storey 22 Time Paralympic Medallist
395 018	Mo Farah Double Olympic Gold Medallist 5,000–m and 10,000–m'
395 019	Jessica Ennis Olympic Gold Medallist
395 020	Jason Kenny Triple Olympic Gold Medallist
395 021	Ed Clancy MBE Double Olympic Gold Medallist and Bronze Medallist
395 022	Alistair Brownlee Olympic Gold Medallist
395 023	Ellie Simmonds Four Time Paralympic Gold Medallist
395 024	Jonnie Peacock Paralympic Gold Medallist
395 025	Victoria Pendleton Two Time Olympic Gold Medallist and Silver Medallist
395 026	Marc Woods Four Time Paralympic Gold Medallist
395 027	Hannah Cockroft Double Paralympic Gold Medallist
395 028	Laura Trott Double Olympic Gold Medallist
395 029	David Weir Ten Time Paralympic Medallist
Prof.Haddock (talk) 01:01, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Names

message: The links below have been added by someone anonymous. Hitachi called their new train "Javlin" without the 'e' when it was first introduced. As a spelling obsessive, I remember it particularly, and references can still be found using Google.
new --> bbc news article - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/5108088.stm
--> video - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3681938.stm
2.31.7.177 (talk) 13:16, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: They were added with . --Redrose64 (talk) 14:53, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Original name

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Should we make note that a class 395 was shown off at St Pancras during the official opening ceremony on 6th November 2007? WestRail642fan (talk) 18:21, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Class 395 at Royal opening of St Pancras in 2007