Talk:Oldham/Archive 2

message: "The most notable and successful sports team in Oldham"... notable, maybe, but successful surely goes to numerous times Championship winners, Challenge Cup winners Oldham Roughyeds?
DShamen 15:54, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think "successful" is probably a term to avoid, per WP:PEACOCK. Though the section could do with a bit of an overhall and some high quality citation. -- Jza84 · (talk) 16:00, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Oldham Athletic F.C.

message: "Oldham is circumbound by several smaller settlements ..."
The word "circumbound" has troubled me ever since I first saw it in the lead, not least because it doesn't appear in my edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary, and so I'm not at all sure what it means. Putting "circum" and "bound" together like that would tend to suggest to me that Oldham was in some way constrained in its growth by the surrounding settlements, in the way that Manchester is, although I've never seen anyone say that Manchester is circumbound by Salford, Trafford ...
I did a Google search for "circumbound", and it came up with 7 hits, 6 of them apparently deriving from this Oldham article. All of which leads me to believe that "circumbound" isn't a real word. Well, not yet, anyway. --Malleus Fatuarum 01:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmmm, it seems you're right! I have it in one of these Oldham local history books, but it is one of the older ones, and thus probably an archaic term. Any suggestions for an alternative? Thanks for pointing this out, -- Jza84 · (talk) 01:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

text: , -- Jza84 · (talk) 15:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circumbound 

message: I predict that the Communal facilities subsection of Culture will get slated unless we can fix it PDQ.
*"The Lyceum is a Grade II listed building opened in 1856 at a cost of £6,500 as a "mutual improvement" centre for the working men of Oldham. Superseding an earlier building which opened under the same terms in 1839, available to its members were a library, a newsroom and a series of lectures on geology, geography and education, microscope and chemistry, female education and botany."
Awkward passive voice, and how can a building be "superseded"? What were these "same terms"? And presumably it wasn't the opening that cost £6,500.
"Music had always existed at the Lyceum ...". Always? What does "music existing" mean"?
FA seems always to be a bit of a struggle, but no point in making it harder than it needs to be. --Malleus Fatuarum 03:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You raise totally valid points. Much of this part of the article is from a rather wordy book (A Centenary History of Oldham). I seems this section needs some better paraphrasing and copy-editting - "Music had always existed at the Lyceum" probably reading as "music has been studied and practiced at the Lyceum since its opening."? "Superseding" refering (I think - it's not totally clear in the book) that an earlier Lyceum existed with identical terms of use, but was knocked down to make way for a larger building. -- Jza84 · (talk) 15:33, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pre-empting FAC objections 

message: I have added a spoken version of this article; see the link above.  Hassocks5489 (talk) 01:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Spoken version added

message: There is missing the bombing of Oldham of 1944: Oldham was hit by a V1 on Abbey Hills Road, where a V1 landed on a row of cottages. The number of victims does not seem to be safe: 
killing 27 people and seriously injuring 49,
says a BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/4122627.stm
but many other websites are telling about 37 killed,
e.g. http://jp29.org/2ar.htm
Perhaps somebody can find out the truth?
--Michael Palomino (talk) 14:18, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably a good addition for the History of Oldham article. Best bet would be to give a range of numbers, so 27 to 37 fatalities. --Jza84 |  Talk   19:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: V1 attack on Christmas eve 24 December 1944 - question of number of victims

message: I'd like to add some information on Edward Potts' contribution to architecture in the town.  According to the Oxford DNB he designed The Bell mill (1904), The Iris mill (1907), the infirmary (1870), the town hall extension (1879–80), as well as banks, board schools, and chapels.  As its an FA, I thought I'd ask before doing so. Parrot of Doom (talk) 19:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds interesting. I've heard the name, but do not know much beyond that! There's also a History of Oldham if you think some (expanded?) stuff can go there too? Go for it - I trust your judgement! --Jza84 |  Talk   00:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edward Potts  (1839–1909) 

message: Hello, I've put the geocompass on the Oldham page, to see if it fits well with the article and what other users think. I think it's good, and it's becoming a bit of a standard in geographic articles. Can we leave it for now and see what the general view is? Thanks. 86.27.78.158 (talk) 16:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree. I think it was useful until an article reaches GA, then it should be dropped. Here it is out of place,it should be in section 3. It doesn't compare like with like- Moorside with Manchester, Then Chadderton is within Oldham.  Apart from that I find the graphic a bit twee. --ClemRutter (talk) 22:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

text: I don't think it's necessary, Oldham's position in relation to the neighbouring towns is already explained in the geography section. Prose is superior to a compass table as it can include distances. Nev1 (talk) 22:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Personally, I think they're dreadful.  Just MHO.  Mr Stephen (talk) 23:06, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

text: For what it's worth I've never liked the compass table either. --Malleus Fatuorum 23:43, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compass 

message: When researching cotton, the phrase Oldham Limiteds comes up time and again. etc In a nutshell, before the cotton famine, Oldham had been the home to a lot of Room and power mills, providing a pool of entrepreneurs.After the famine, mills were finances by establising a public limited  company, taking share capital from local speculators. In Oldham it took off and it explains the rapid growth in the number of mills- the Stott dynasty didn't make  money be designing buildings but by buying into the mills they designed. Oldham had its own stock exchange. Shouldn't this be briefly mentioned in the history section? It is sufficiently important to write a page which could then be linked. Any comments.--ClemRutter (talk) 22:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds interesting, even worth a page in its own right. --Malleus Fatuorum 23:45, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll put it on my todo list. My problem is that I am working right on the edge of my comfort zone and will need support from people who are into economic history. It was pretty lonely building up the articles on Maple Mill, Oldham, Ring spinning and Spinning mule; there seem to be a limited number of people who have any interests in these directions and I know some of my limitations.--ClemRutter (talk) 08:43, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: . Could someone assist by doing a thorough edit- then writing a link into the Oldham and Chadderton pages. The Chadderton page IMHO gives a very superficial account of the years 1850-1900 relying heavily on one source. ClemRutter (talk) 11:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oldham Limiteds 

message: Oldham's nightlife was put under the spotlight this evening in Panorama. This article mentions Oldham's nightlife fleetingly in the Culture section, but could probably do with an expansion based on this,this, and this type of thing.
I also heard that a revamped Tesco store in Oldham is the corporation's flagship store, its largest, and the blueprint for all its future stores in the UK - but this needs a reference of course. --Jza84 |  Talk   20:29, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Binge drinking, nightlife and Tesco 

message: According to http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=790039&c=Oldham&d=20&e=16&g=352196&i=1001x1003x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1249859994460&enc=1&dsFamilyId=141 Oldham has 165,509 persons over 16; which is much more than listed on the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.211.61 (talk) 20:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population problems  

message: I'm a bit confused by the area used in this article. It says that the area is 25.9 sq miles (67 sq km), and uses a 1911 book to source this. However, County Borough of Oldham says that the area before it was abolished was 25.9 sq km, with the area in 1911 being 19.2 sq km. The geography section says that the length of the place is about 6.4km, so for it to have the area stated, it's width would have to be about 10km. Looking at the map there this clearly can't be right! I presume this is a simple error of units, but wanted to make sure before I changed anything. Quantpole (talk) 12:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've looked into it slightly more - the area stated by the ONS on table KS01 (ref D90221) is 17.9 sq km giving a density of 5785/sq km. This seems much more realistic. Unfortunately it is different to the old county borough area. I can't find on the ONS site any maps which detail the areas. Does anyone know what the existing map is based on? Quantpole (talk) 12:37, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, I've changed the area to that by the ONS, as otherwise the population density and so on would be incorrect. Quantpole (talk) 12:33, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Area? 

message: I understand that the local version of Oldham is actually Owdham, or even Owdum, and wondered why this does not currently appear, as such, in this article?  I see "Owdham Roughyed" does feature, and in the caption to the coat of arms for the former County Borough of Oldham council there is mention of "Owdham".  A few years ago our neighbours happened to be Oldham folk, and it was from them that I first heard the form "Owdum".  It cropped up in conversation after my own use of "Brummagem" as an alternative for Birmingham, and there seemed to be a parallel in its use; i.e. in as much as it did not appear to have currency much beyond the town and the immediate surrounding area, in the same way that the use of Brummagem for Birmingham is largely confined to its citizens and those of the neighbouring Black Country towns.  The variant of Brum (derived from Brummagem) is, of course, more widely known, and both Brum and Brummagem are given as 'nicknames' in the Infobox for Birmingham's Wikipedia entry.  I was therefore wondering if "Owdham" should not be similarly included in Oldham's Infobox?  Maybe a note on the local pronunciation of the name could also be included under the Toponymy section?  Does anybody from that neck-of-the-woods have any thoughts on this at all?  (Lepidus Magnus (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Owdham? 

message: :"Glodwick contains the element clawd which means "ditch" in Modern Welsh."
I can't access the source, but clawd isn't a word I know; clawdd means dyke, hedge, embankment etc (Clawdd Offa -> Offa's Dyke) and is probably what the source meant (if it was talking about modern Welsh. It could possibly be different in Old Welsh; I'm not an expert on that.) The modern Welsh for ditch is ffos. Gareth (talk) 04:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: From the 1949 book: "The name Glodwick perhaps contains an old Celtic word Clod, in modern Welsh Clawd ("a ditch "), which would be the fosse or dike constructed by the Romans to drain the route of their paved road..." I can't say if the original writer was an accurate linguist or not. Urselius (talk) 10:51, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  I did some more digging. According to Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru (the equivalent of the OED) (pp 1118-9, NB hefty PDF file) it originally meant the soil thrown up in digging a pit or trench (and hence "dyke"), but by extension clawdd could refer to the ditch itself (quote: "ditch, gutter, trench; pit, quarry, mine; moat, fosse"). Which makes sense since cloddio is also the verb "to dig". But "clawd" is then certainly a misspelling of "clawdd". Gareth (talk) 12:49, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: So given the 1949 quote above, may I suggest replacing the sentence in question by "..and Glodwick may be related to the modern Welsh clawdd, meaning dyke or ditch." I would do it myself but it would be best if I waited until after it left the front page. Gareth (talk) 13:00, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that would be fine. I originally just wanted to point out the Celtic-derived place-names still existing in the area. Werneth, is a very rare thing in England, outside Cornwall, in being derived from a Celtic personal name, rather than term for a topographical feature. Urselius (talk) 15:34, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Clawd" 

message: In the English indices of deprivation 2010 report published by the Department for Communities and Local Government, the top 3 areas worst for crime in England were in Oldham The 9th worst area for crime also was an area of Oldham. I understand this may ruin the appeal of the Oldham article should this information be added to the main article but it could be useful. Jaywick's Wikipedia page states that it or a part of it was the overall most deprived place in England, taken from the same report.
 Undefined 23:01, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crime section 

message: According to this Hollingwood is in Oldham. J3Mrs (talk) 16:43, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oldham boundary 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:49, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I suspect that this article may have drifted from FA status since 2012. Certainly, there are some dubious and/or unsubtantiated statements and poor style - I have just removed one example that, while I know it to be correct, is unsourced and not even terribly significant. I am also surprised to see no mention of Westhulme Hospital, which I mentioned in the edit summary. Is a review required? FAs often go to pot if the regular maintainer moves on. - Sitush (talk) 23:58, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA review?