Talk:The Shadows

message: :Image:Shadows6.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Shadows6.jpg

message: :Image:Shadows5.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Shadows5.jpg

message: :Image:Shadows4.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Shadows4.jpg

message: :Image:Shadows3.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Shadows3.jpg

message: :Image:Shadows1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Shadows1.jpg

message: sometime in the distant past, but have decided to not figure out how to protect them.  This is across the board with all the covers that I've added to various articles.  If someone thinks that they are a good element in the article, feel free to figure out how to keep them.  Carptrash 14:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I uploaded the cover images 

message: Some idiot "Benjammin" had written various sexually-themed pieces of nonsense; I really do not think The Shadows have any interest in bestiality, nor is their success attributable to prostitution.  I actually don't know the easy way to revert back so had to do it one at a time.  I don't even like Sir Cliff, I hope he appreciates my removing the references to dog sex.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mongoletsi (talk • contribs) 09:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverted back several versions 

message: This article is ridiculously long, mainly due to its containing of reams and reams of information that should blatently put in related sub-articles, or even erased completely! I have added two appropriate templates to that effect. The article includes such titles as "Important", items such as google search results, details on what clothes the membes wore on tours, etc etc.. It seriously needs cleanup!
Retrorocker (talk) 09:56, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Far too long 

message: Hank Marvin is considered by most major British rock guitarists to be the most significant and important lead guitarist of the 20th century
i will just change it, i never have read that even one well known guitar palyer said that, i mean he's good, but not that good, and since there is no source, i will erase it.
:: No caps key on your PC? Anyway, you don’t read much obviously - Frank Zappa acknowledged them on his first album, Neil Young started because of Marvin and the Shadows (his entire act began as Shadows covers); George Harrison said The Beatles were influenced - if only to out do them - and the track “Cry for a Shadow” is an obvious nod to Marvin’s style; Clapton, Beck, Townsend, Brian May, Mark Knopfler… the list goes on and on…  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.67.148.152 (talk) 17:27, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  this sentence in legacy 

message: The article states "the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and all other groups post-Beatles continued to use their birth names throughout their career in music"
I am glad Richard Starkey and William Perks always performed under their birth names and never changed them to anything stupid like Ringo Starr or Bill Wyman  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.14.124 (talk) 00:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name Changes 

message: I don't think it's fair to say ALL lead guitarists have been influenced by Hank Marvin. It would be better to say he was highly influential or something like that. Also, the sentence doesn't make sense (grammar-wise).
In listing lead guitarists, the first one was "Paul McCartney of The Beatles". Paul was usually the bassist; George Harrison was the lead guitarist (who was influenced by Hank Marvin). Mclay1 (talk) 02:19, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead Guitarists 

message: it's not much in it by now, you can add some stuff back, but if i read things like most important lead guitarist of the 20th century again, or like every metal band being infleunced by them because of the fenders i will erase it again, keep it real shadows fans, i mean it were the beach boys who really gave fender their start because they used the insturments on all their tv appearances, that's why the beach boys are in the fender hall of fame.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.196.241.196 (talk) 18:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  legacy section 

message: I've done some copyediting and removed some of the ridiculous hyperbole, (see wp:peacock), unsupported statements and obsessive detail - who cares what the catalogue numbers were for their albums? - save that for the discography section. If you want to add anything to the article please remember this isn't a Shadows fanzine, it's an encyclopaedia with policies such as wp:Neutral point of view and wp:reliable sources. I will doing some more editing and adding more "citation needed" tags as I get time. If they don't get acted upon in a reasonable amount of time then that information will also be removed. Richerman (talk) 12:06, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well catalogue numbers would be part of a well-referenced discography. Presumably there is a separate discography article? Rich Farmbrough, 23:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit 

message: To readdress something another user mentioned, the article states about pop stars using stage names that "This behaviour by British rock/pop stars came to an abrupt end in 1963 with the Beatles and Rolling Stones." Ringo Starr of the Beatles and Bill Wyman of The Rolling Stones both used stage names so both examples are flawed.Mclay1 (talk) 04:50, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Stage names

message: What's with the giant appendixes at the end of the article? These should be shortened drastically. I have never seen appendixes like that at the end of an article before. Mclay1 (talk) 04:57, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: They are poorly named. I have split them into sections and done a little re-factoring.  The article needs reasonably good content moving around to form a coherent whole. I think the typos are sorted. Columns would be good for some of the longer lists.  De-POVing a little more - yes The Shadows are one of the most successful bands ever, especially in the UK, and no, this isn't widely recognised, and yes, the Beatle effect is probably to blame.  But report it, cite it and move on, don't make it the theme of the article.  Rich Farmbrough, 00:02, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Appendixes

message: wikipedia is an encyclopedia which must contain factual information.  The section 'Allegations of bias against The Shadows and Cliff Richard' is dominated by unverifiable statements and for the most part statements which are just not appropriate for an encyclopedia.  They are more relevant to a blog or similar.  I propose that this section is deleted.  Boatman (talk) 15:20, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Unfortunately, I don't think it will make much difference as this article seems to attract Shadows fans who have a burning resentment towards the later success of the Beatles. They had their moment, made a great contribution and then the world moved on - deal with it. Richerman (talk) 17:37, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Allegations of bias against The Shadows and Cliff Richard

message: This article seems to have grown and grown; unfortunately the effect is less than positive. No serious encyclopedia would have this level of trivial detail. It really needs trimming back in order to become a good article.--SabreBD (talk) 22:37, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This level of detail would be appropriate for an encyclopedia dedicated only to The Shadows; but that is not what we are. Further to comments from other editors, I have culled particularly unsourced material, but more so stuff that "might" (but only just) be worthy of separate articles. As it was, it was a breach of WP:INDISCRIMINATE, let alone WP:RS. Editors are invited to take my removals on a case-by-case basis and either restore here, or start new articles provided the notability can be established. Rodhullandemu 00:09, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Excessive detail

message: > Their unique[citation needed] guitar sound was originally produced...<
What kind of citation does this need? Isn't it obvious? Please be serious.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stekflit (talk • contribs) 02:18, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation 

message: Including session and touring musicians, temporary fill-ins, and Welch's Shadows members - it might go something like this:
:Harry Webb
:Ian Samwell
:Terry Smart
:Ken Pavey
:Norman Mitham
:Hank Marvin
:Bruce Welch
:Jet Harris
:Tony Meehan
:Laurie Jay
:Brian Bennett
:Brian Locking
:John Rostill
:Alan Hawkshaw
:John Farrar
:Clem Cattini
:Dave Richmond
:Geoff Atherton
:Duffy Power
:Johnny Van Derek
:Dave Ackley
:Alan Tarney
:Kevin Peek
:Trevor Spencer
:Dave Olney
:Andrew Steele
:Francis Monkman
:Mo Foster
:Cliff Hall
:Alan Jones
:David Lawson
:George Ford
:Paul Westwood
:Mark Griffiths
:Ben Marvin
:Phil Kelly
:Bob Watkins
:Keith Heyman
:Warren Bennett
Some probably don't belong on this list, while others missing from it (if any) do. Best, --Discographer (talk) 01:26, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Members 

message: Legacy and influence
	This section needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (July 2010)
The Shadows have been cited as a major influence on some American guitarists but also many British, Australian, Canadian and European guitarists, including Eric Clapton, David Gilmour, Tony Iommi,[14] Mark Knopfler, Neil Young, Steve Clark and Randy Bachman.''
My opinion/experience:
Almost any european rock/pop-guitarist who started playing guitar in the mid-1960ies was surely influenced by the Shadows. Rory Gallagher, Ritchie Blackmore, Peter Green, Jimmy Page - name whatever guitarist in the sixties who wasn't hooked on the 'Shadows-Sound'. The sound, wich is still present on contemporary Vinyl-Records (now more than 50 years ago), is extraordinary.
Maybe the old Shadows songs sound terrible on modern CD releases, because the record companies remastered them for modern purposes. My old vinyls sound very good (I'm using early 70ies-HIFI-Gear).   
Ok, this is my equipment: Marantz 2270 Receiver, Dual 1219 & 704 Turntable (both Shure V15-Type III) and B&W dm-2a speakers.  
The vinyl-records from the Shadows sound far better than much other 60ies-productions or even 80ies-productions. Rumour says, that George Martin (the Beatles-producer) was also the producer for several early Shadows-recordings.
Maybe one could add the 'Fiesta-Red-Stratocaster-Story' in the article. In the early 60ies the red Stratocaster was very rare in Great Britain, because Hank Marvin got one and anybody else wanted to get the red one. The red ones were soon sold out. It's rumour that Fender sent nude unpainted Stratocasters to England and they finished them there in Fiesta Red.
Early sixties Rory Gallagher saw a (used?) sunburst-Strat in a guitarstore.
Anything else than a "Red Strat" was out of time. He bought this sunburst for low money and this Stratocaster was THE Gallagher-Strat as we know it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.230.221.119 (talk) 21:54, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy and influence 

message: this recently added section from the 1970s section.
:"During the early 1970s, Marvin and Welch had a second career as vocal group Marvin Welch & Farrar with John Farrar as third vocalist. Farrar provided a distinctive, falsetto style and skill as an arranger. They recorded two albums and several singles and, without Welch, a third album Marvin and Farrar. Live performances were hampered by audiences expecting the Shadows' greatest hits. Marvin said interviewed in Guitar Greats by John Tobler: "In the Batley Variety Club we walked off stage to the sound of our own footsteps!" 
Had this section, which sounds true enough, been added by a registered editor I would have left it in and contacted the editor.  This is not possible so I moved it here.  There are several options as to what happens next, what I would like to see is that it is referenced and returned.  Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 20:30, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem at the moment is that the article mentions Farrar leaving the band ("Following the rare vocal single "It'll Be Me, Babe", written and sung by Marvin & Farrar, John Farrar amicably left the band that year, moving to the US to become the music producer for Olivia Newton-John."), but not joining it. Jah77 (talk) 18:21, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, having read the deleted quote above, I'm not even sure whether "the band" is supposed to refer to The Shadows or Marvin, Welch & Farrar. Jah77 (talk) 18:26, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  I just removed 

message: The link of Cliff Hall to The Spinners is wrong. That is another Cliff Hall, not the Shadows man.--WalterNeumann (talk) 10:33, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cliff Hall 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on The Shadows. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120302033447/http://www1.gitarrebass.de/magazine/0409/klappgitarre.htm to http://www1.gitarrebass.de/magazine/0409/klappgitarre.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:58, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Mountains of the Moon (The Shadows song) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 26#Mountains of the Moon (The Shadows song) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Richhoncho (talk) 23:15, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Mountains of the Moon (The Shadows song)" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: "Alan Jones – bass (1977–1985, 1987–1989) 
George Ford – bass (1978–1980; died 2007)"
So the group had two bass guitarists at once, rather like Ned's Atomic Dustbin? Harfarhs (talk) 13:22, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  All about the basses