Talk:Rian Johnson

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131104131214/http://paiff.net/pdf/press/8-16-12.pdf to http://paiff.net/pdf/press/8-16-12.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060406231956/http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/entertainment/homepage/article_1082381.php to http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/entertainment/homepage/article_1082381.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070826231006/http://www.rocktag.us/article.php?article=3 to http://www.rocktag.us/article.php?article=3
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Rian Johnson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090517094541/http://chud.com/articles/articles/19420/1/RIAN-JOHNSON-LETS-SLIP-A-FEW-MORE-DETAILS-ABOUT-LOOPER/Page1.html to http://chud.com/articles/articles/19420/1/RIAN-JOHNSON-LETS-SLIP-A-FEW-MORE-DETAILS-ABOUT-LOOPER/Page1.html
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: has added a neutrality dispute over the career section. Is it possible to outline the issue? One of your recent revisions was reverted after you added "Rumors also swirled of a large dispute in artistic direction between Johnson and Executive Producer JJ Abrams" without citation. This appears to be gossip without any notable citations. It's certainly not neutral. My recommendation would be remove the NPOV unless there's compelling reason to change the section. - Nemov (talk) 21:35, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Career 

message: they say this movie is a space opera but it is not an opera it is a movie I do not know why this person said this! 72.207.188.42 (talk) 22:54, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 23:13, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2022 

message: I rolled back The One I Left's change to the lead.. The audience reception to the film isn't even mentioned on the article of the film and it's certainly undue to mention in the biography of Rian Johnson. Please find consensus before making similar changes to the lead. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 14:46, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hello! Yeah I noticed the reversions, and I find it bizarre that the films reputation and audience reaction isn't mentioned at all in the article of Rian Johnson. However it is explicitly stated in the article for Star Wars: The Last Jedi under "Audience reception". I don't think it's a controversial or undue statement to say the film was somewhat divisive amongst audiences. I would argue that specifically naming his first films budget and box office is excessive and undue, but that's what's there in the lead at the moment: "grossed nearly $4 million on a $450,000 budget". Thoughts anyone? This isn't a hill I want to die on but I thought I'd pipe my two cents in. Cheers! The One I Left (talk) 16:52, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The TLJ article does a good job of summarizing the audience reception and the main takeaway is that the film was well received while some film journalists characterized the reception as divisive. Those opinions are based an online observations. What the interent is talking about isn't reflective of reality (a month ago the internet told us no one cared about Avatar 2). The only real data we have are the box office numbers and the film surveys which show the audiences overwhelmingly liked the film. The film article can take a more in depth view of the audience, but this biography can stick to the hard data that supports a well received film. Nemov (talk) 18:32, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to point out that just because a film does well at the box office, that doesn't mean that everyone who watched the film enjoyed it. Although I do take your point that there is no statistical way of know whether they enjoyed the film. I however would come to the consensus that basically says "If they say it they must've liked it". As for Brick's mention in the lead, I don't think specific box office numbers should be named. It's undue and you can find that out within the body of the article.The One I Left (talk) 19:24, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  That is incorrect. There are several industry survey companies who track this information when a film is released. The film industries pay millions for this information. Those scientifically controlled surveys showed the audience loved the film. As far as the box office is concered that's kind of a separate topic. I can understand why it's mentioned in the context of it being Johnson's biggest film. Nemov (talk) 20:22, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I was referring to the majority of people who watched the film. Not a random assortment of test group audiences. "Loved the film?" Come on. When the film was released it divided audiences and to this day it continues to divide audiences to this day. To ignore that and simply say "People loved it and no one disliked it" is being dishonest. It was a major topic of online discourse. As for the other issue, it's completely undue to go into the specific box office numbers. You could easily say that it was a "commercial and critical success". No need to go into specifics in the lead. You can find that information in the body of the article. The One I Left (talk) 23:37, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The film surveys are scientifically controlled data that's trusted by the film industry and they're reliably sourced. That's the significant viewpoint when it comes to audience reception. That topic has been beaten to death at Star Wars: The Last Jedi and the consensus there is to not include "online discourse" in the lead. I'll WP:DROPTHESTICK there and let others comment. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 00:14, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the discussion! I will say I'm not arguing whether they are reliably sourced, but my point is "controlled data" is just that. A small group with a specific perception that does not reflect the majority of audience perception. The film is divisive, and that's not a controversial statement. It's misleading and disingenuous to say that its beloved by all or even a majority of audiences. The One I Left (talk) 00:22, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change to Lead 

message: I rolled back the archive with this edit  since it wasn't set up correctly. If someone more knowlegeable than me can sort it out I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks! - Nemov (talk) 03:52, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malformed Archive 

message: I rolled back the pronunciation addition made to the lead by Gendralman and it was reverted. This addition would seem unnecessary. None of the other articles for people named Rian include a pronunciation. However, if the consensus is to include it should follow WP:MOSPRON. Thanks! - Nemov (talk) 03:59, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It's an extremely uncommon name in the US (where he's from), and many people with that spelling rhyme it with "Ian", not "Ryan". I'd say an uncommon, ambiguous name merits a pronunciation hint. I agree it should follow whatever MOS we have about pronunciation. —Gendralman (talk) 22:46, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd kindly remind you of the WP:3RR guidelines. Your initial edit has been challenged. It doesn't follow WP:MOSPRON. The status quo should remain until you find support for your edit and/or it's included correctly. Thanks! - Nemov (talk) 03:37, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation Change