Talk:Valerie Plame

message: The "To do" list does not represent consensus of editors who have worked on this article: see the archived talk pages for the history of contentious editing of this article. Tagged "controversial": See Wikipedia:Guidelines for controversial articles. Much of so-called "Plamegate" (in Wikipedia it's called the Plame affair and the CIA leak grand jury investigation, with contentious re-naming back and forth of the various names; see their editing histories and talk pages) depend[s] on the biographical details presented in this article as it currently is written. Editors new to editing this article need to read the archived talk pages and the current talk page and to follow these guidelines and policies linked in them. --NYScholar 09:20, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This use of the third person is confusing: are you talking to me? I was the one responsible for the reordering and proper archival of the old talk content, so I know it very well. As for the defense of the current article's layout, noted, but I'm not new to Wikipedia and I know a poorly-written article when I see one. That a subject is Big and Important does not necessarily mean that it cannot be presented in a succinct and accessible article. Chris Cunningham 09:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  To do list 

message: As it stands this is clearly a pseudobiography. NYScholar is unwilling to refocus the article so that it avoids intimate discussion of the Libby affair and acknowledges that this is the primary reason for notability. WP:PSEUDO is abundantly clear that in such cases we shouldn't have a biography at all. Chris Cunningham 11:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Considering proposing for deletion per [[WP:PSEUDO]] 

message: Requesting help with finding a suitable image that does not violate Wikipedia's fair use rationale, non-free use policies; I have been unable to find a "free image" via the internet. If one has an image suitable for posting as an illustration of the subject of this article in her infobox, please assist. (I received no advance notice that the recent image was going to be deleted and did not know of its deletion until after it occurred. I had uploaded a new image and new rationale just a couple of days ago. I received no 48-hour advance notice that it was being deleted. Perhaps that notice pertained to an earlier uploaded image? Confused by this.) --NYScholar 00:16, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: Curently, "Valerie Flame" redirects here, but there's no indication in the article of what this might mean. The "Judith Miller (journalist)" article does describe the "Valerie Flame" notation. So, maybe "Valerie Flame" should redirect there instead? I can understand the counterargument that "Valerie Flame" is technically another name for "Valerie Plame", but if you look up "Valerie Flame" because you heard it somewhere and want to know what it's all about, you're kind of stuck here with the vague idea that it has something to do with Valarie Plame but no idea what.Originalname37 15:18, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Plame affair, other articles already cross-linked in this article, specifically: CIA leak grand jury investigation#Miller: "Mr. Fitzgerald asked me about another entry in my notebook, where I had written the words 'Valerie Flame,' clearly a reference to Ms. Plame. Mr. Fitzgerald wanted to know whether the entry was based on my conversations with Mr. Libby. I said I didn't think so. I said I believed the information came from another source, whom I could not recall." I don't see a problem. "Valerie Flame" is not "technically another name for 'Valerie Plame'"; it's a typographical error [Miller's mistake] relating to faulty hearing and/or transcription in Judith Miller's verbatim notes that she made while talking or after talking (retrospectively) to Lewis Libby and pertaining to her own grand jury testimony about those conversations. The erroneous name (not "another" and not an "alternative" name) could be on a disambiguation page w/ a proper link to a section discussing this matter. If time, I'll take a look. Or someone else can. --NYScholar 16:56, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

text: You might enjoy consulting Fair Game: My Life as a Spy, My Betrayal by the White House#Excerpts from reviews with quotations from the book (review published today by Janet Maslin), who (coincidentally) quotes Valerie Wilson re: this exact matter. --NYScholar 21:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Valerie Flame

message: It's quite possible that VP's great-grandfather was not named Plamevotski. A Google search for Plamevotski gets one hit -- the Wikipedia. A phone number search of the U.S. gets no hits. Ditto for Ellis Island. Same results for Plamevotsky. I'm sure that VP thinks this about her great-grandfather, and he probably was a rabbi, but maybe not named Plamevotski. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonrysh (talk • contribs) 10:27, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, she goes over her family history on that page and mentions that. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 19:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early Family Life 

message: The graph or flowchart looks like it was made by a retarded elephant. If nobody wants to remake, just remove it. I think it hurts more than it helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.232.200.199 (talk) 05:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. It's a useful illustration from Wikipedia Commons. There are not other free illustrations that relate to the section. --NYScholar 07:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the chart is interesting. I redid a graphic based chart based on this which I feel is much less confusing. Maybe gone from retarded elephant to drunk monkey. Trying to find out how to upload it for review prior to posting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.78.207.135 (talk) 22:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

text:  Check out this graphic chart. Changing to full version will improve clarity. If an editor likes it or suggests modification, let me know. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Plame6.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.78.207.135 (talk) 16:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Trying the revised graphic chart. (Would it be possible to upload a version with darker print to make the full version easier to read?) Thank you for the work. --NYScholar 03:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrible chart 

message: I removed the datum on her high school; it was not in the source cited for the sentence. Additionally, we probably don't need it anyway. GRBerry 15:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed again. WP:BLP says to not allow unsourced material that is negative or privacy invading into the article. GRBerry 15:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  high school 

message: I have requested a fair use review for :Image:Vpw fairgame.jpg - see WP:FUR. In essence we shouldn't be using a copyright photo when a free photo exists to illustrate a living person. Purgatorio (talk) 23:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There I write: "I've now found the "free photo" in the request move link and edited the article accordingly, placing the "free photo" ("free image") in a more appropriate place in the article; the infobox image is, however, still justified, as I explain in response in the request review section. It illustrates content in the lead and in a detailed section of the article (where it used to appear [also] but was deleted by another editor some time ago). The rationale for its use in Valerie Plame Wilson, the author of the book, remains; it is used within fair use, due to the discussion of the book in the article on her (aka Valerie Plame, Valerie E. Wilson)." --NYScholar (talk) 02:07, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I see that another ed. has moved the "free photo" from where it was placed (in the section on the book and her lecture appearances (about the book) to the infobox, replacing the book cover photo previously there. It works okay for me (though I preferred it the other way). --NYScholar (talk) 00:25, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use review 

message: Due to the whole Plame affair, could Valerie Wilson be considered Burned?--SilverhandTalk 14:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  That is probably not possible because it has to stay secret. One would have to assume that these people are sometimes analysts and sometimes operatives in the sense of participating in operations, government funded and initiated operations. I was nosy about what kind of operations and where but we cannot ever know that it seems. They must also be operations that the system mightn't like admitting, so the secrecy will never be lifted. 2001:8003:A928:800:950E:FF20:63AA:DF93 (talk) 06:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burned? 

message: Although it hasn't been released officially yet (street date is Nov 18 2008), the band Third Eye Blind have made a song called Red Star which is primarily about Valerie Plame. I'm not much of one to make changes to main pages, but figured it might be worth noting here at least. I mean, if a parody song is relevant, surely this is too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.66.230 (talk) 01:05, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Star 

message: I reverted an anon's changes to the page because he had included duplicate information on Richard Armitage that is already covered elsewhere, and he had deleted significant published commentary from a reliable source. If the anon wants to defend some of these edits perhaps there is a compromise available but I don't think the information he deleted should be deleted. csloat (talk) 21:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  revert of anon ip 

message: Could somebody who understands this history please add a sentence or two to the "Plamegate" section explaining how we get from Novak leaking Plame's role to Libby getting indicted? Even after reviewing a couple of the related articles, I'm not sure I understand the flow. We go from "Novak published the information" directly to "Fitzgerald explains the background of the indictment of Libby". Perhaps a capsule summary of how the information flowed to Novak, pointing out Lewis's role and mentioning his role in the investigation? Jordan Brown (talk) 16:36, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Connection between Plame and Libby? 

message: This NY Times page:
http://www.nytimes.com/ref/washington/LIBBYDIARY.html
provides two competing timelines for June/July 2003 which the editors of this page may find useful. One is derived from the prosecution evidence at Libby's trial and one from the defence evidence. 114.73.120.206 (talk) 08:18, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Useful Link 

message: The first couple sentences don't even mention the most notable thing about Valerie Plame: the fact that she was outed from her covert position. Here is the edit I suggest:
Valerie Elise Plame Wilson (born April 19, 1963), known as Valerie Plame, Valerie E. Wilson, and Valerie Plame Wilson, is a former United States CIA Operations Officer. She worked as a covert operations officer until her name and true affiliation were released by officials in the Bush Administration. Valerie Wilson is the author of a memoir detailing her career and the events leading up to her resignation from the CIA.Rodeored (talk) 20:26, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Important fact missing 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Valerie Plame. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive {newarchive} to http://wilsonsupport.org/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article is in the category "Critics of Islamophobia", but there seems to be no source to this.
There is a discussion about the inclusion of articles that are in this category at  category "Critics of Islamophobia".
I am trying to understand if a source is needed to categorize it also for this and all other articles. There are many articles where the article is categorized and it is sourced to a published article.
User:Cpt.a.haddock is removing this category from several pages even though it is sourced to published article. He says it is not enough for categorization. (For example, at Vinay Lal the categorization is sourced to this article: V. Lal: Implications of American Islamophobia, Economic and Political Weekly, Vol. 50, Issue No. 51, 19 Dec, 2015. But even then, the category was removed by User Cpt.a.Haddock.) 
See his contributions:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cpt.a.haddock
The question is, is this enough for categorization? If this source is not good enough, I do not understand how this article is categorized in the category without sources. --Sebastianmaali (talk) 16:06, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Category:Critics of Islamophobia from this article and removal of category by User: Cpt.a.haddock 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 9 external links on Valerie Plame. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: She is now running for office: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe1XMolVyec Kdammers (talk) 06:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Candidate 

message: My understanding was that Richard Armitage was actually responsible for outing Valerie Plame and has publicly admitted this.. Claiming that Libby leaked her status to Novack is likely false. Is there a previous discussion of this somewhere? (It is hard to believe that I am the first person to point this out.) Thanks. 98.7.1.133 (talk) 15:00, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right in that it is a gross oversimplification to list Libby only in that first sentence. I added Rove and Armitage. Per the 2007 source:  – Muboshgu (talk) 15:52, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claim Libby (not Armitage) was responsible for outing