Talk:Kimigayo/Archive 1

message: I don't see anything in this article about some of His Majesty's recent remarks about the use of the Kimi Ga Yo and Hinomaru in school ceremonies. Should that not be mentioned? I think it caused some controversy, that the Emperor himself was opposed to the forcing of a song in praise of him to be sung... elvenscout742 17:46, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Emperor's Attitude? 

message: "If you compare Kimi Ga Yo democratic countries' (for example England's God Save The Queen) National Anthems, this sort of praise of a ruler is very natural."
There is debate within the UK as to whether references to God are appropriate in a multi-faith country, and (as with Japan) whether references to hereditary monarchy are appropriate in a representative democracy.
Should the article reflect this in the 'response' the the arguments against Kimi Ga Yo? The response here appears slightly fallacious, or at leastr should be restated so as not to suggest that leader worship is 'natural' (which is a POV, not a fact).  User:Phil webster
:In taking a look at List_of_national_anthems,  there really seems to be very few National Anthems that praise a ruler: Brunei, Jordan, Nepal, Netherlands (?), Oman, Saudi Arabia, Spain (?), and the United Kingdom. There are also a few countries that have separate Civil and Royal Anthems: Canada, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Thailand. Finally, there are a few more that mention God but not the ruler: Fiji, Ghana, Hungary, Kenya, Latvia, Libya, New Zealand, Republika Srpska (Serbia), Solomon Islands, Sudan, Suriname, and Tanzania. This data says that "National" Anthems praising a ruler are very rare, even for  Kingdoms and Constitutional Monarchies.  gK ¿?
::In taking a look at national flags, there seem to be very few with big red maple leafs...  Since when did we compare national elements to each other?  How does this equate with NPOV?  The anti-anthem arguments, while spurious, are accurate for what I read in the news (when it comes up 1-2 times every year).  The arguments for the anthem are equally spurious, but again-- the whole issue is a tempest in a teapot (IMHO).  Basically, it becomes a political football for the nationalists on one side an the commies on the other to jump up and down a bit (and get membership dues from the riled).  Perhaps, if anything, the article should scale back these arguments with such a description of the proper relevance of the issue.Davejenk1ns 11:45, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the comment "this sort of praise of a ruler is very natural" is very POV. Since the arguments do come up regularly, I guess that they should probably be kept in the article (I was thinking of suggesting just deleting them). Still, I do think that the arguments do need to be trimmed back. Are there any particular events (holidays, etc.) that seem to trigger the arguments? gK ¿? 12:29, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Natural? 

message: Someone please confirm that "World National Anthem Contest in Germany, 1903" bit. All I've found about it on Google is this same page; is there any factual evidence?
----
I was the anonymous who posted the above on April 15, 2005. As of now, no one provided the factual evidence to keep that part of the article, so I'm removing it. Lampiaio 04:16, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  World National Anthem Contest? 

message: Certainly Kimi Ga Yo is a contender, but not the clear winner.  "Shortest anthem" is of course subjective, you can have five different orchestras play any given anthem and get five different lengths (I know myself from my extremely vast anthem collection I can't pin down a definitive time to any anthem.)
The fairest way to judge this (the NPOV way? ;) ) is to count the number of bars in the anthems sheet music (again, not the best way, but probalby makes it more even.)  I found Japan's has 11 bars, but Jordan's has 10 and Uganda has 9, so they are very good contenders too.
Whoever posted the "shortest anthem" fact, please provide proof,a nd keep in mind how hard it is to subjectively prove.  --Canuckguy 03:29, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Shortest Anthem

message: Prime Minister Koizumi, however, has officially endorsed Hironobu Kageyama's Cha La Head Cha La for the coveted spot. After Koizumi's endorsement, so many protesters gathered in Tokyo to voice distaste for such a song to become the official anthem that traffic had to be blocked for multiple hours. According to one protester, "Although Kageyama-san's composition is valued in Japanese culture, it hardly represents what we are about as a people. In fact, if instituted as the Japanese anthem it will only appease a small minority." When asked about his choice for an anthem, the protester responded, "Cruel Angel's Thesis is a far more appropriate choice when it is considered that a national anthem is supposed to symbolize the ideals and values of an entire people through song." Although Cruel Angel's Thesis has strong support, Cha La Head Cha La is considered the front runner at the time of this writing.
This information seem very unreliable, and sounds just like a joke (CHA-LA HEAD-CHA-LA and Cruel Angel's Thesis are two Anime music). I wasn't able to confirm this so I'm leaving it there, as I don't know if it's true or not. Please, if anyone can verify this info...  Zumbertinho 07:12, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unreliable information

message: I've just uploaded a better copy of the score. Please check it for typos and wrong notes, and consider replacing the current image if you think it's a good idea - Sakurambo 17:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updated score now available 

message: It seems like the English translation has taken a lot of poetic license with the original Japanese. Is this translation official? --75.31.241.60 10:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not aware of the existence of any "official" translation, but the translation we have here looks good enough to me. A strictly literal translation would be almost unintelligible, so it has to be translated within the context of a national anthem. That involves the addition of words like "reign" which aren't explicitly mentioned in the Japanese. There are a few alternative translations at http://www.hfc-south.com/4shunbun/198.html (including one by Basil Hall Chamberlain that seems to be fairly well known). -- Sakurambo 桜ん坊 11:53, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the English translation official? 

message: I corrected "enacted" to "enforced" (used 2 times). --Dumpty-Humpty (talk) 05:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Law's name in English

message: While no official English translation exists for this Act on national flag and anthem, a translation guideline says an enforced law of Japan is to be translated by "act" and, the name for this Act can be "Act on National Flag and National Anthem" if translated in compliance with this guideline: Standard Bilingual Dictionary (March 2008 edition)
A name "Law Regarding the National Flag and National Anthem" is a word-to-word translation, with a grammatical error: "the" before "Anthem" is missing. This is not necessarily a common translation, as far as I searched Internet. 
So, I replaced this long name by a shorter expression using "act" or "bill." --Dumpty-Humpty (talk) 06:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: According to a guideline....

message: When a bill is passed, that can be called "law" or "act." Expressions "a law is enforced" and "an act goes into effect" are almost equivalent. 
A verb "pass" takes either of the three as an object, but to be accurate, "bill" is the word for the one to be passed. --Dumpty-Humpty (talk) 06:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bill, Law or Act?