Talk:AMC Pacer

message: This article needs a good clear photograph of a Pacer when new, not least because the car shown at present is incorrect in several respects. Can someone oblige? Writegeist (talk) 01:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As noted in the history of edits to this article, I put this car in the article because the previous image in the infobox was of a factory PR drawing of a Pacer that was deleted from Wikipedia for obvious copyright issues.  In any case, for purpose of full disclosure, the following items are wrong on this car: (1) the Pacer's full wheel covers on steel wheels have been substituted with AMC's "Magnum 500" rims (not on the option list on the Pacer in 1975 - plus the ones on this car are missing the trim rings), (2) the wheel lip mouldings have not been replaced after the car was repainted, (3) the black side rub strip is slightly wider than the stock version, (4) the grille does not have the silver finish on its thin horizontal bars (it is all finished in flat black on this car), (5) the vertical black rubber bumper guards were not replaced after later model NOS bumpers were installed, and (6) the inside rear view is not yet attached to the car's windshield in this picture. Other than these problems, this "Mellow Yellow" 1975 Pacer Pacer is as it was ordered from the factory. — CZmarlin (talk) 04:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved the subsequent discussion to Czmarlin’s talk page—a more appropriate venue. Writegeist (talk) 01:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help! 

message: My family owned a 1976 Pacer D/L with two-tone paint. I question the assertion in the article that two-tone wasn't available until 1977. Manway (talk) 22:24, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing out the error! I have rewritten the section to read that all Pacers (without the optional vinyl roof trim) could be ordered with two-tone paint. I added a footnote that takes you to the 1975 AMC color brochure. The text now notes that there was only a change in the accent paint scheme in 1977. I hope that is clear now! — CZmarlin (talk) 22:42, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me, Marlin. Thanks for the clarification. I wish I had that Pacer back - it was one of my favorite cars. I know, I'm strange... 8^)  Manway (talk) 23:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two-tone paint? 

message: Honesty please, Czmarlin.  It is a fabrication to claim that Buckley states the car was the same length as a Ford Granada.  He clearly states about the same length. As there's only about eight inches between them, he is correct. Kindly stop inserting your false statement into the text. (Assuming good faith and giving you the benefit of the doubt I put your error down to your difficulty with the nuances of what is obviously not your first language.) Also, false though your interpretation of Buckley is, it's your personal opinion at best, uncorroborated by any WP:RS. Personal opinions and falsehoods, whether deliberate or accidental, have no place in WP. Thank you. — Writegeist (talk) 02:22, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that if you check reputable sources, they will confirm that a difference of eight inches in the length of an automobile is significant. However, your acerb comments do make me laugh! Thanks, CZmarlin (talk) 20:47, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length 

message: The movie Cars 2 labelled the Pacer a lemon.  Did the car really have a reputation as a lemon?  There's no indication of that in this page.Inkan1969 (talk) 20:43, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The point of the movie was to have two cars serve as henchmen for a devious professor to sabotage an automobile race. As such, Acer, who felt like an outcast in the car world, simply joined forces with Grem, who has a big chip on his fender. That is the movie story and hardly something that happens in life. In the "real" world, both cars were no more "lemons" than any other cars of that era. However, they are both very unique in their design compared to the contemporary models of the time. Because of their radical departure from the norm, many individual people to this day express different opinions as to their styling. Both the Pacer and the Gremlin have polarizing "love it or hate it" effect, yet both have become icons for the 1970s. What is often overlooked today are the impacts these two cars had. The AMC Gremlin had a big influence on subsequent hatchback small car design automobiles of the late-1970s and beyond. The AMC Pacer introduced numerous design trends and technologies that were later incorporated by all automakers in following decades. "Until a few years ago, the Pacer [was] stuck in the Automotive Freak Show ... However, times are a-changing ... the Pacer is seen differently: as a design icon of its time, and as what it could have been."(link to reference) In other words, the fictional story line of a movie is not encyclopedic reality. CZmarlin (talk) 21:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As almost all the detailed and reliably-sourced criticism has been excluded from the main text (with egregious disregard for WP:NPOV and WP:UNDUE), any implication that this absurd hagiography somehow encapsulates "encyclopedic reality" appears somewhat wide of the mark to a knowledgeable and objective reader (let alone a knowledgeable and objective Pacer owner). Writegeist (talk) 00:50, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Writegeist! Thank you for your hilarious comments! We should all hail the beatified Piston Cup champion McQueen (BTW: the WP article about this anthropomorphic racecar is a paean and lacks even one reference.) In the case of Inkan1969's question, do you really think the computer-animated action film is based on actual facts about its characters and portrays a realistic, albeit perhaps a little paradisiacal, representation of history? Yet, the article you distain about the AMC Pacer contains numerous reliable published sources. Let's review the issue: which is more encyclopedic? Pixar's view of cars or contemporary referenced sources...... CZmarlin (talk) 04:24, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lemon 

message: Did the Pacer have a torque tube, or a normal U-jointed drive-shaft? Sca (talk) 17:18, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The last AMC models with a torque tube were the 1966 Ambassador and Classic. The Pacer had an ordinary U-jointed drive-shaft. CZmarlin (talk) 17:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Final drive

message: One note in the main article and also reports elsewhere point to steering problems in the AMC Pacer; as I own one, I can say for sure that as long as the wheels receive an adequate alignment, and the tire pressures are in the right range, the car not only gives no steering problems at all, but has an steering very precise and fun for the driver, even in narrow and winding roads.--Jgrosay (talk) 23:30, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: AMC Pacer steering

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is nothing in this car that belongs to the Cab Forward concept. Perhaps someone got a bit over-excited somewhere at some time at so mixed their metaphors. Can we remove this error now, please.
Basically the layout is a truncated station waggon. We call that a hatch-back, now. Notice that the driver's seat position is in the middle of the wheelbase, as for most modern saloon cars. The entire car from the front bumper to just behind the front seats is a totally ordinary sub-compact layout (with funny shaped bonnet or hood). Its the rear seats that are over the rear axel, and so perhaps it would be more appropriate talk of a Cab Rear Concept instead of misappropriating the Cab Forward term which means something altogether different...
In a cab forward design the driver's seat would be over, or even in front, of the front axle and certainly not half way to the rear axle as is the case here...
--Neil Dewhurst, Lyon, France. (talk) 15:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Neil.dewhurst. Please note that the usage of the design concept in passenger automobiles is not dependent on having the front seats over the front axle as the case in certain trucks or vans, rather the design is an attempt at "allowing for greater interior space". See: Read, Richard (2013) "15 Car Styling Cues For The Ages" The Car Connection p. 3. The "The Pacer was the first domestic car with cab forward design, and a rarity in any era" that also allowed the driver to see all four corners of the car. See: Cranswick, Mark. The Cars of American Motors: An Illustrated History p. 178. The "innovative but unusual Pacer had rack and pinion steering, room for three upfront on the bench seat, cab forward design". See: Stevens, Bob (2002) "Motor City Meet" Cars & Parts Volume 45, p. 72. In short, the "cab forward" design in cars is a concept that de-emphasizes the hood and reconfigures the passenger cabin for maximum interior space while maintaining the same overall size of the vehicle. The term was also used in the design and marketing of the Chrysler LH cars. See: "Chrysler Defines Cab-Forward and the Second-Generation LH Cars' Styling" Alpar, Appel, Tom (2017) "Cab Forward: The Chrysler LH Cars of 1994" Consumer Guide, Schuon, Marshall (1992) "Chrysler Tries to Build Traffic With Its New LH Sedans" The New York Times, and many more. For more complete engineering description of the cab forward car design, please see: Hunt, V. Daniel (1993) Reengineering: Leveraging the Power of Integrated Product Development p. 84. I hope these references will explain the basis of the AMC Pacer's short hood and big wheels pushed out to the corners of the car as a much different - cab-forward - approach when compared to the other domestic automobiles during that era. Cheers, CZmarlin (talk) 03:31, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cab Forward ?