Talk:Alexandru Ioan Cuza

message: Shouldn't the main title of this page be Alexandru Ioan Cuza, rather than the English translation of the name?  The man's name was not "Alexander John Cuza".  --SeekingOne 14:09, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
No. You cannot stop progress. The English disrespect is perpetrating together with the popcorn culture. And we also enjoy calling their people: Gheorghe Tufis, Veta a-II-a, and Jean Lipitura(007). Please don't deny us the small pleasures. Novac3 17:30, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't agree. Please use the native proper name, using the English Alphabet. There is no policy I know on Wikipedia.org about translating the proper names to John, or Emmanuelle from french to Emma, or Michelle to Michael. Please SeekingOne do try to bring out this matter on Wikipedia community forums agenda, and let me know, will you ? Bogdan 188.25.28.82 (talk) 15:59, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: In order to apply the same rule for all names, I do not think there should be much debate about this fact: the name of the prince is Alexandru Ioan Cuza. Of course, with a mention about the English spelling inside the article. 
(Rgvis (talk) 18:37, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, the name must be Alexandru Ioan Cuza. For example, there is no Jack Chirac instead of Jacques Chirac :))  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.24.194.174 (talk) 16:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it's time you looked through a Romanian dictionary, or even the Romanian wikipedia, and read about Henric VIII, and Ludovic XIV, and Ioan Fără de Ţară, and Petru II Alekseievici, and Andrei Bat(h)ori, and Filip II, and Alexandru Obrenovici, and Gheorghe II, and Iosif II, and Petru II. English usage is English usage. Dahn (talk) 18:35, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is just defamatory. If you think otherwise, please change first the names of Giorgio Napolitano to George Napolitano and Jacques Chirac to Jack Chirac. Later we can see if somebody agrees. Saturnian (talk) 06:32, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Saturnian, have a second, third and fourth look over my message. Take the examples one by one, and contemplate what the articles I've linked to have in common with each other, and why I have been piping those links. Take as much time as you need, really, then come back to us with a less anodyne reply than "it's defamatory". Dahn (talk) 13:53, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Saturnian, your edits to the article are counter to Wikipedia:Article titles, and the language your using against Dahn for following WP policy while you are breaking it is not helpful. As regards the source Istoria României în date, this source is not in English, it is in Romanian. It does not qualify as an English book. It is a Romanian book. It is in Romanian. Sorry to repeat myself, but do you understand why I am saying this? In ictu oculi (talk) 13:12, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The name of the article changed to Alexandru Ioan Cuza

message: Dear followers, please give you vote also for Talk:United Principalities. -- Thanks, Saturnian (talk) 17:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: United Principalities

message: Please read the following text:
:At "Alexandru Ioan Cuza" University the students learn about Alexander John Cuza.
::If you didn't laugh yet, please re-read the above sentence. :)) -- Saturnian (talk) 16:46, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I stsrted laughing when I read the move request. English does what English does; we are supposed to be written in English, not Romanian.  Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, as "...supposed to be written in English",  please change then Giorgio Napolitano to George Napolitano and Jacques Chirac to Jack Chirac. This is so funny :) Saturnian (talk) 16:57, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, for (like - I suspect - Alexandru Ioan Cuza University) Jacques Chirac is usage. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Alexander John Cuza University is a defamation of this University and also a defamation of the person, Alexandru Ioan Cuza. As Jacques Chirac is not written as Jack Chirac, then we should no try to invent names. Saturnian (talk) 17:05, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear closer, is this a legal threat? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:08, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If it is, then do you will change you mind?  :)) Saturnian (talk) 17:17, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If it is, I will act accordingly; please follow the link before answering. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:00, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No. You didn't reply clearly to my question. Please do so first. Saturnian (talk) 18:02, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: For opposers

message: Before we go on debating these issues, did anyone else notice that (in addition to his countless edits on all articles linking here), Saturnian has already canvassed the vote (, , ,  etc.) and there are is at least one seemingly single-purpose account voting here and on his poll ()?
I find it hard to even discuss things over when that is the benchmark, let alone when this user repeatedly trolls by implying I'm anti-Romanian (, ). Admins out there? Dahn (talk) 00:38, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Dahn, the user Saturnian has made enough WP:NPA against you and other users for a warning to be issued, I'm not quite sure how to go about that, perhaps it has to be taken by a 3rd party to WP:ANI. On the bigger issue, as far as Admin help, or advice on how to attract 3rd party editors to keep "special interest" pages following WP:MOS, then probably Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) is the place to ask. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:38, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, you are wrong. Dahn attacked me saying "don't you have anything better to do?" on Alexandru Macedonski article. Already I warned him "... your behavior, including personal attacks (like "don't you have anything better to do?"), is not a proper one. Thus, if you will continue, I will report you seriously". Do not try to distort the facts. Saturnian (talk) 05:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No facts distorted, Saturnian. I have already invited you to "report me seriously", as soon as possible, and let them know how that's a personal attack etc. You would in fact be sparing me the trouble of having to file a complaint on you (wikidrama and the sheer templates are such awful bores). Once you do that for me, we can discuss in one place what you consider to be acceptable and unacceptable behavior on wikipedia. I certainly don't need your bogus, bombastic, poisoning-the-well, self-referencing, pidgin warnings in the meantime - I warmly, calmly, gently invite you to file your complaint as soon as possible, and I'll be sure to expose myself to such scrutiny at a venue of your choosing. I have to be off soon, but if you do it by, say, later today, it'd be just peachy for me. Make sure you leave a tag informing me of the discussion, and I'll be sure to reply. Dahn (talk) 05:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Just irony which is not useful. The issue is about common sense, respect for others and dignity is not helpful. Until now, you did not argue why such values should not be applied to Alexandru Ioan Cuza and why he is punished to bear a such name. I stand for common sense, respect for others and dignity and hopefully I think others share the same values. Saturnian (talk) 06:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: (It's not irony, man: go do it. If you're vexed, seek your resolution.) I think I have repeatedly argued as to why this name is not exactly an abomination, for instance by pointing you to the sheer fact, the basic knowledge fact, the self-evident fact, that, in Romania, the names of ruling monarchs, not to mention regular historical figures, are Romanianized as such: Elisabeth -> Elisabeta, Pedro -> Petru, Piotr -> Petru, John -> Ioan, Alexander -> Alexandru, Giorgios -> Gheorghe etc. Do you understand this when I mention it the third time around, or is the English I'm using still too complicated and I need to literally draw you a picture? (As for the other issues: I know appeals to emotion work on the average overheated Romanian troll, but you're already embarrassing yourself and everyone else here with the "punishment", "dignity" etc. demagoguery. Really, the point for moving this article is not inarticulate, but you are effectively driving it into the ground with the drama and the mudslinging and the canvassing and the general obnoxiousness.) Dahn (talk) 06:32, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Just FYI, this same naming issue has occurred on Cuza's entry on List of Freemasons, also made by Saturnian, and the same title argument (English usage) was made by several others. MSJapan (talk) 05:52, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I asked you to explain why Alexandru Ioan Cuza is punished to bear denigrating name. You did not replay until now. This issue is about common sense, respect for others and dignity and nothing else. Saturnian (talk) 06:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Good cop-bad cop, Codrinb? Dahn (talk) 10:31, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Puppets and canvass

message: Since there is no limit to the sort of half-truths that Saturnian is spreading about Cuza's "real name", let's note the following tidbits (which, of course, are entirely new to Saturnian, who only cares about rhetoric, and the other obscurantists de jour): to people in his generation, Cuza was never known as "Alexandru Ioan Cuza". "X" itself is a brand new letter in the Romanian alphabet, and the Romanian alphabet itself was only adopted in Cuza's reign.  
You'll find that they spelled his name Alesandru Cuza here, page 215, right column), Alessandru Ioan (here, page 24), Alecsandru Cuza (here, page 466) or other such variations. The half-baked purist defense above, which claims to represent how Cuza wanted to spell his name, is twice ridiculous: Cuza never saw his name spelled "Alexandru". So let's cut through the hybris: if it's a crime against his dignity to call him "Alexander John", it's only as much as calling him "Alexandru Ioan". That "dignity" defense is horseshit. 
(Incidentally, a fully developed version of this article will need to mention Cuza's name in the transitional version of Romanian Cyrillic.) Dahn (talk) 06:54, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is funny :)) Why you are not more tolerant? Saturnian (talk) 07:52, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Of ignorance? Because I'm not ignorant. Dahn (talk) 10:37, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, great. Let's check that. If I could prove that you are ignorant, do you will support me from now on? Saturnian (talk) 16:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I never did support the move, son. Have a second look. What I a saying, and have said all along, is that I want to see ample reference, and assessment of evidence, as to why this page should be moved - it is personally irrelevant to me whether this page carries this name of the other; I'm resistant to whimsical changes, for practical reasons, and I am disgusted by you insidious editing of this and other articles, your canvassing, and your single-purpose sockpuppetry. But if clear-cut arguments and consensus for the change emerge, I will not oppose it. What I will invariably oppose is sciolism. Dahn (talk) 16:22, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Your answer is for a question I never asked. I ask again: If I could prove that you are ignorant, do you will support me from now on? (Yes/No) Saturnian (talk) 16:25, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Get someone to teach you better etiquette - these are not grown-up questions to ask, Saturnian. Dahn (talk) 16:30, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: See you avoided the answer meaning you have doubts about your ignorance. I hoped we will cooperate, so disappointing. Saturnian (talk) 16:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have not answered your question because it is childish and inflammatory, like most of the things you have posted on this here page. If there's anything you can say that is of substance, concerning the usage of the name, let's hear it. Btw, perhaps you can tell me if you can read the spelling used by the man in his own signature: :File:Signature of Alexandru Ioan Cuza.png. Tolle, lege. Dahn (talk) 16:40, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We could solved easily the dispute. I see the signature of this man of state written in Romanian; thanks for evidence. Saturnian (talk) 16:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Then presumably you also see how it is spelled "Alecsandru". As for the rest: I see you still didn't understand that part where I tell you that, even in Romanian, the name of ruling monarchs tends to be translated. Otherwise, maybe you can aslo note how the woman known in Romania as Elisabeta II likes to sign her own name. Ask a grown-up to explain, if you're still having difficulties grasping this analogy. Dahn (talk) 16:52, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No. You're still having difficulties grasping the difference between Alexander John Cuza and Michael I of Romania. I you admit translation of names, until now you were not able to change the Giorgio Napolitano to George Napolitano and Jacques Chirac to Jack Chirac. This paradox means that the reasoning mechanism you use is flawed. Saturnian (talk) 17:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The paradox only exists in your mind, Saturnian. Both Michael and Cuza were monarchs, in continuity to each other in fact (through Carol - who, btw, is "Karl"!). The sickeningly repetitious reference to Napoletano and Chirac is an ignoratio elenchi, yours: Cuza was not president, under any definition. Seriously, get yourself a history book. Dahn (talk) 17:10, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Ale[c]sandru", if we're splitting hairs

message: It probably needs noting that this is subject of a note on Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Cuza_edit_warring. NB Saturnian, please see also WP:3RR. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: ANI

message: I'll repost these links, as they may help, for example anyone before mentioning "Jack Chirac" again, please click on these links and then try "Jack Chirac".... 
* "Alexander John Cuza" 
* "Alexandru Ioan Cuza". 
That is 1950-2011 in Google Scholar. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The first one leans heavily towards the University, but is very short on hits. The latter leans heavily towards non-English sources (interestingly enough), and I think it wise to indicate that even the university appears with both "Ioan" and "John" spellings (it's in both sets of listings).  I believe it wise to rerun those listings omitting the "University" term and focusing on the person, as I believe the latter are hits on material by students at the university, and thus a derivative of what it attempting to be illustrated. MSJapan (talk) 03:07, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi MSJapan, yes, for those who are familiar with the tool that would be a better search, but the simple search shows exactly what you've said above. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:24, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Your discourse is highly over-exaggerated, provocative, uncooperative, intended to denigrate; just for the stubborn ambition to keep Cuza to bear a cowboy like name. I think this behavior is not a proper one for Wikipedia. Saturnian (talk) 05:18, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: How to do simple searches on Google Scholar

message: Was he officially as Prince of Romania 'Alexandru Ioan', 'Alexandru Ioan Cuza' or 'Alexandru Ioan I'? Did he have a regnal number, like his successor, Carol I, did as Prince, and did he use his surname as part of his regnal name?92.3.159.49 (talk) 23:47, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regnal number/name? 

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thread_title:  External links modified