Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television)

message: *1 - as it is the most visually pleasing. GoodDay (talk) 21:58, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: *Comment: if the current method changes, please ping me as it requires some code to be updated. Gonnym (talk) 15:51, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: There isn't a good example for dashes, but if a show like Dahmer – Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story had season articles, there would be similar issues. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: :I think there should be a Hyphen before adding season number. BattleshipMan (talk) 14:38, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Too late thats already been discussed Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 15:34, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm given a serious consideration of setting up a new consensus discussion that will have a special character in TV show season article titles instead of using space. Space is not a solution to TV show season article titles, having special characters on it is. BattleshipMan (talk) 20:48, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Do it then it'll be WP:SNOWed. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 01:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @OlifanofmrTennant These sorts of replies really aren't helping or being contributive. Please be educational; the above editor has been informed of the situation. -- Alex_21 TALK 01:30, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

text: I think it is better to add a colon after the title. Example: Family Guy: Season 11 Guy Without Name (talk) 18:40, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: We already covered this  . Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 20:25, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

text:  As someone who uses Wikipedia all the time… this looks awful. Who on earth approved this? And that robot who’s been doing the changes have messed up every single article.2A00:23EE:1518:63D1:D000:9FF1:1E62:A007 (talk) 21:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that this new style looks awful...unfortunately didn't notice this discussion and was therefore unable to participate in it. This change is adding so much more unnecessary work to enforce a consensus that just isn't helpful to the project. The new titles are less accessible as they are relying on italics, they increase the number of internal disambiguators in titles and cause multiple titles to have less clarity and be more ambiguious. Happily888 (talk) 00:07, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Really wish I had seen this discussion earlier as I would have strongly discouraged the use of Italics for the same reason. Italics are a massive accessibility issue. Not just because of the reasons mentioned by @Happily888 but also for users with disability access needs like myself who rely on certain tools to access online spaces. It's an unnecessary complication that adds no value to the Season titles. Racheal Emilin (talk) 09:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: How does that change the title of an article being, for example Attack on Titan season 1? The subject of that article, without italics, remains exactly what it's meant to be. -- Alex_21 TALK 09:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: No it doesn't, punctuation changes how things are read and helps discern what is and isn't part of a title: "Chicago (musical)" or "Chicago musical" don't read the same as "Chicago musical", "NCIS (TV series)" or "NCIS TV series" isn't the same as "NCIS TV series", and "Georgia (country)" doesn't make as much sense when titled as "Georgia country". Happily888 (talk) 10:14, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: That's because the title of those are quite literally just Chicago, or just NCIS; we then disambiguate what exactly it is through the parenthesis and thus how it's different to anything else called that. By that example, Game of Thrones (season 2) describes Game of Thrones second season as being something that is (again) titled literally just Game of Thrones, that is a "season 2" as opposed to a "TV series" - that makes no sense. It's the second season of an entity called Game of Thrones, so it's a subset of something else, not an identically titled entity, thus disambiguation does not apply correctly. -- Alex_21 TALK 10:19, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

text: I'm not satisfied with the mass move. I'm not too happy with the mass move. I think it should either a status quo or a colon. Without special characters for TV show seasons is not acceptable. BattleshipMan (talk) 20:34, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again there was already a discussion on this . Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 22:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Having space on TV show season article title is inconsistent. Special characters like the Parentheses are there for consistency reasons and that RFC has affected the consistency of it. BattleshipMan (talk) 00:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that the mass move has been completed, all articles are consistent with one another, and all match the title of their parent article. -- Alex_21 TALK 00:50, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Having space on TV show season articles is not consistent with the grammar of it. That is a problem you should've thought about. BattleshipMan (talk) 04:39, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You're posting the same issues in multiple locations. Stick to one. -- Alex_21 TALK 04:40, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia:IDONTLIKEIT. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:55, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha. The "support" !votes in the RfC that led to this change were almost all based on ILIKEIT. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:18, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

text: Well, can't say I'm surprised. I continue to believe this change provides no benefit, and if anything, is detrimental to readers and worsens readability. I'm always reminded of the Vector 2022 debacle and how that turned out, but I no longer have the energy to continue pushing this. I'm glad to see more and more people (who likely weren't aware of the RfC since this is a project page) are coming forward with similar concerns. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:15, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: These "similar concerns" were over three weeks ago, but thank you for your opinion. If you'd like to go through the proper channels to contest it, by all means; unfortunately, otherwise, simply saying "this is bad" does not further a collaborative environment. -- Alex_21 TALK 08:02, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, yes, three weeks ago because I haven't been very active of late and have been busy with real life. I don't think that invalidates my comment though. As stated, I'm not contesting this at this time; I was just putting it out there that there are continued problems with the new formatting and I anticipate others will raise similar concerns further down the line. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:41, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Then we look forward to satisfying those concerns in the future. No good work or deed goes unpunished. -- Alex_21 TALK 10:30, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Continued discussions 

message: Apologies for the lack of updates to #Technical updates. I've archived the above list and condensed it down to the following:
# Update all links to the articles in User:Alex 21/sandbox/NCTV, including those in  and , across all namespaces (especially navigation templates such as ).
# Move categories in User:Alex 21/sandbox/NCTV/2 to new name style (:Category:Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 5 episodes).
# Fix  GAN links (like this).
# Fix caption in  using PAGENAMEBASE.
-- Alex_21 TALK 07:57, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Season categories in :Category:Wikipedia featured topics categories also need to be moved. Gonnym (talk) 10:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Technical updates 2 

message: Both disambiguators "(serial)" and "(TV serial)" are in titles for various articles, see a title search for "(TV serial)" and a title search for "(serial)" for reference. In the NCTV guideline's current state, the mentioned use is "(serial)", but most articles which are located at titles with "(serial)" instead of "(TV serial)" seem to be about film serials, and actually pertain to title conventions that are covered by WP:NCFILM.
So, in regards to TV serials, which disambiguator should be the standard? Steel1943 (talk) 20:01, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you explain to me the difference between a TV serial and a TV series? Gonnym (talk) 11:01, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:   I believe "serial" is a UK-ism and "series" is an Americanism. Moreover, there are definitely some number of shows for which the "TV" serial/series must be distinguished from radio or film. BD2412 T 14:28, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, I may be wrong about this. I know that in the UK, "series" is often used to mean what "season" is used for in the U.S. BD2412 T 16:00, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, "series" in the UK often means "season" in the US. But that distinction isn't important to this question, which is about the word "serial". Toughpigs (talk) 18:52, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  If "serial" doesn't mean anything different in the UK, then we should be using "TV serial" wherever we are delineating a serial that is on TV. BD2412 T 19:07, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

text: In British English, the answer is that a ‘series’ is a series of programmes where each programme stands alone - for example a game show, wildlife documentary, or a drama where there’s a separate self-contained and completed story every episode, whereas a ‘serial’ is (usually a drama) where the storyline continues from one episode to another - i.e. the principal storyline arc runs across the entire season (US) or series (UK), such that watching a single episode would be like reading the middle chapter of a book. Like, for example, Poldark, or War and Peace.  The distinction becomes blurred in series that have both a longer storyline and self-contained episodes, like Secret Army, or Blakes Seven; in my judgement they'd both be considered serials due to the longer storyline, but each episode wraps up a story and you could drop into the middle and have a fulfilling view, although you might not fully understand the context right away. All these comments apply to TV; I don’t believe the term ‘serial’ is really used in British English in a film context. MapReader (talk) 08:20, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with what you have said. In South Africa a preview of an upcoming film shown before the main film is called a trailer. Serial is also understood to be a single story told in multiple episodes e.g. at 2000 every Tuesday evening All British produced shows use series and not season e.g. The Sarah Jane Adventures, Atlantis. All American produced TV series such as Supergirl, The Flash that are released in South Africa and the UK (DVD Region 2) use Season in their titles. In my view the distinction between Series and Season is important and should be kept. PhilipGray123 (talk) 00:02, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

text: I think that in practice we're using "(serial)" for film serials (Flash Gordon (serial), Congo Bill (serial)) and "(TV serial)" for television (Quatermass (TV serial), The Hound of the Baskervilles (TV serial)). I can't find any examples of a non-redirect page that currently uses "(serial)" for television. This may be an example of policy needing to catch up to practice. I'd suggest updating the policy to specify "(TV serial)" and fix any outliers, if there are any. Toughpigs (talk) 17:22, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

text: You need to rephrase and put the question again, to allow for both American and British English terminology. MapReader (talk) 15:20, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The British/American question was based on an error. There's no difference in the British vs American definition of the word "serial". Toughpigs (talk) 05:09, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

text: From the above explanations (and I'm sure I'm in the minority but it's still worth stating the obvious), I don't really see any merit in continuing using "serial" or "TV serial". NCTV has very little variation in the types of disambiguation it has for standard television shows (there used to be much more). "TV series", "TV programme" or "miniseries" should be enough to handle any variation. Gonnym (talk) 11:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently, a search for "(TV serial)" shows that many of them are already redirects to "(TV series)". I think a change across the board from "TV serial" to "TV series" would make sense. Toughpigs (talk) 16:59, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: For articles tagged as written in British English, that wouldn’t be appropriate, as TV serial is what they are commonly called. MapReader (talk) 20:25, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Is there a source for this? BD2412 T 20:36, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The definition is as set out in our own WP articles on TV serials and TV shows.  There are plenty of other authoritative sources on the internet as to what the term means.  Most of these imply that it is still pertinent in both US and UK English, and I can attest to the latter.  It isn’t clear what the source is for suggesting that it’s no longer a relevant term in US English? MapReader (talk) 21:02, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

text: "Serial" also has a theatrical sense, and refers to a series of episodic shorts released over time that were put on before or after the main feature (their serial nature being used as an extra draw to keep people coming back to movie theaters on a regular basis); that's how The Lone Ranger and Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon got started. I'm not entirely certain what other uses "serial" might have in a filmic context, especially with regard to television.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

text: "TV series" should be used over "serial" or "TV serial" for programmes broadcast on television. "Serial" is particularly undesirable as it makes the medium unclear (the disambiguator is likely needed because there's been a serial of the same name in a different medium). I would understand and expect any of these terms to be used in the UK to describe, for instance, a self-contained story told across three hour-long episodes: "miniseries", "series", "serial", "programme". A TV serial is a type of TV series. If "serial" isn't commonly used outside of British English then "series" is preferable under MOS:COMMONALITY. — Bilorv (talk) 23:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC: Should we use "(serial)" or "(TV serial)"? 

message: This guideline states that the correct disambiguation for miniseries is "Title (miniseries)" rather than "Title (TV series)". I have started a move discussion at Talk:Obi-Wan Kenobi (TV series)#Requested move 18 April 2024 to get that article moved to the correct disambiguation. Posting here in case any involved in the guideline wants to chip in. - adamstom97 (talk) 15:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miniseries disambiguation 

message: I've noticed several lists of awards by TV shows recently that use the "List of accolades received by X" naming format. While this is common for other works such as films, most examples for TV shows use  "List of awards and nominations received by X", as shown at :Category:Lists of awards by television series. I think it would be useful to add a note to WP:NCTV clarifying if a certain format is preferred. Personally, I think "awards and nominations" should be the preferred format given that (a) "accolades" could include end-of-year lists or other recognitions that aren't generally included, and (b) "awards and nominations" is clearly the common option currently. But I would prefer consistency either way over the mismatched titles we currently have. RunningTiger123 (talk) 22:20, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming awards lists