Talk:Father Damien

message: Beatification took place in Brussels, most exactly at the esplanade of the National Basilica of Koekelberg, which in fact is dedicated to the Sacred Heart.  Please correct.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.55.86.201 (talk) 15:10, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beatification 

message: Why is Hawaii spelled Hawaiʻi in this article when the Wikipedia article it points to spells it Hawaii?--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 14:10, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The title of the article Kingdom of Hawaii does not currently have the okina due to common usage outside of Hawai, but the text inside that article does use the okina. The placement of okinas into all articles containing Hawaiian words is an ongoing process on Wikipedia. Softlavender (talk) 04:22, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

text: Either way is standard usage and acceptable in the U.S. Using the diacritical is more "official", but harder to incorporate simply because most people spell the name of the state and the various islands and many other Hawaiian words without the diacritical. Also, most fonts do not include an okina, so apostrophes are used instead. It's fine to spell the state and island names without the diacritical, so I wouldn't worry about it. It's simply a matter of authenticity to the language and culture of Hawaii that inspires editors on Wikipedia who have knowledge about Hawaii to add the okinas when and where they can. Even that isn't easy, because a special character has to be inserted, like this  to create this:  . (It's like an upside-down apostrophe.) Anyway, I hope that was helpful. You're fine not using the okinas/apostrophes; most Americans outside of Hawaii don't and that's why the article titles (often) don't. Softlavender (talk) 03:47, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hawai'i 

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thread_title: File:Statue of Father Damien 3.jpeg Nominated for Deletion

message: The current See Also list seems overlong to me, and the length seems to detract from its purpose and add confusion rather than to add helpfulness. Some of the links have little or no bearing or relationship to Damien; one link is already in the article (and should thus be removed from See Also per WP standards); and one link is a subset of another link.
I personally think the See Also list should be cut in half. Alternatively, the list should be cut to the minimal salient direct relationships to Damien, and any added links should need to explain why they are being added and how they relate. Softlavender (talk) 01:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. Lunalilo, Peter Kaeo, and Charles Reed Bishop have no place here and Charles Warren Stoddard, Herman Koeckemann, Jonatana Napela, Walter M. Gibson, and St. Thomas the Apostle Hollywood should be incorporated into the text.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:46, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  See Also list seems overlong 

message: Thanks, Bigturtle, for removing the Wiki-myth that Damien's symbols are a tree and a dove. That complete fabrication was inserted by a trolling IP account in September 2006 and has since been picked up by the internet and even included in a recent book. Softlavender (talk) 06:01, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikimyths 

message: Wouldn't it be more in keeping with the standard formatting on wikipedia for the name of this article to be Damian of Molokai? No other entry about significant members of the clergy use their clerical honorific (List of Catholic priests seems to bear that out) and "Person of Place" seems normal for pages about saints.--98.216.52.105 (talk) 02:10, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like the Roman Catholic Church officially refers to him as St. Damian Joseph de Veuster Of Molika'i. I would suggest that as the article title with a redirect from "Father Damian". Wkharrisjr (talk) 18:41, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

text: Yes.  Padre Pio is now Pio of Pietrelcina.  --  Jack of Oz [Talk] 02:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, Father Damien is the most common name.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 17:37, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  So is Padre Pio.  But then, Mary MacKillop is still there.  --  Jack of Oz [Talk] 18:56, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of article 

message: While I applaud the editor's enthusiasm who made massive changes to the article, there were too many problems in the edits to pick through and correct them all, and also the article structure was better as it was beforehand. Therefore I've taken the liberty of reverting the changes. To the new editor to this article: What you are calling passive voice in many cases was not, and in most all of the cases was better as written, for logical flow and correct emphasis. Also, if you are going to make huge bold changes to an existing and stable lengthy article, you might want to get consensus on the Talk page first, or at least explain your intentions. In any case, as with all massive bold changes to an existing stable, lengthy, and formerly FA article, be prepared for them not to stick. Hope that makes sense! Thanks, Softlavender (talk) 21:25, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent changes 

message: We have both versions even in the first para of the lede.  Can both be correct, and even if so, is it appropriate to be using them interchangeably?  I think the answer to both these questions is: No.  --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:56, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I'm seeing in pre-Wikipedia reliable sources, the capital D for his birth name appears correct. The religious name is another matter, because it was taken in adulthood upon entering holy orders. But the Vatican has it like so: . Softlavender (talk) 23:39, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: de or De (Veuster)?

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120717020345/http://www.sscc.org/pages/x_Damien/damien_bio.htm to http://www.sscc.org/pages/x_Damien/damien_bio.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Some of the new edits being done at the moment are changing the meaning of existing text. Copyediting is fine as long as the meaning isn't changed; adding new material is fine as long as it is accurately cited; changing text to conform to RS and NPOV is fine as long as we follow all RSs. Please do not not however change the meaning of existing passages without cause. I see several passages where I am going to need to restore wording that was apparently shortened for conciseness or perhaps for NPOV but which actually changed the meaning of the passage without cause. (I don't have time to do this right at the moment; I just wanted to alert the editor[s] in question to be careful to avoid this going forward. Thanks.) Softlavender (talk) 07:01, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  New edits are changing the meaning of some existing text 

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I have just added archive links to  on Father Damien. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050311012310/http://cathedralofourladyofpeace.com/damien.htm to http://cathedralofourladyofpeace.com/damien.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100713022835/http://staugustinebythesea.com:80/Damien_of_Molokai.htm to http://staugustinebythesea.com/Damien_of_Molokai.htm
*Added  tag to http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2009/bills/HR210_.HTM
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110724184442/http://www.hawaiicatholicherald.org/BlessedDamien/tabid/311/newsid916/418/Default.aspx to http://www.hawaiicatholicherald.org/BlessedDamien/tabid/311/newsid916/418/Default.aspx
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120111021413/http://www.sicm.us/Damien_Center.html to http://www.sicm.us/Damien_Center.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928081703/http://www.damienhouse.net/ to http://www.damienhouse.net/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: 1.) De Veuster does not appear to be "...the tenth person in what is now the United States to be recognized as a saint by the Catholic Church." -at least going by the so-called source cited.
2.) The List of American saints and beatified people does not belong as some sort of citation in the lede; "That isn’t using wiki as a reliable source, it is using it as a convenience cite for actual sources, at least for anyone capable of opening a link." -the "convenient cite" is already listed under See also.
3.) All in all, rather poorly written, containing an excess of superfluous verbiage, most of which borders on fandom, and periodic instances of redundancy, at the very least. Manannan67 (talk) 22:54, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of the “superfluous verbiage” appears to be of actual use. For instance, it is a relevant point that Fr. Damien ate with his parishioners in the local fashion, which was believed at the time to be rather risky. That he discovered he was leprous quite by accident is a commonly noted point in most biographies. The prominence of Sacred Hearts (plural) in Hawaii is worth mentioning, as is the fact that, under the local version of gavelkind in his neck of Flanders, he was the primary heir to his parent’s estate. The continued remoteness of the leprosarium is remote. The origins of the many new diseases seems relevant.Now, I’d agree that some of the language is a bit too hagiographic, but it isn’t necessary to throw out relevant facts to tone that down. Qwirkle (talk) 23:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  "The Catholic Encyclopedia calls him "the Apostle of the Lepers." Catholic Encyclopedia doesn't call anyone anything. The author of the relevant article is Libert H. Boeynaems, sufficiently notable to have his own article. Poi is generally eaten with the fingers, and anyone who doesn't know that doesn't know what poi is, which is why there is a link. How he learned he had the disease is already described in sufficient detail in the text under "Illness and Death". There is no problem in discussing the Piscus Fathers in Hawaii, but then it should be developed adequately, not off-the-cuff. If he is primary heir because his elder brother entered religious life, then the point becomes moot when he does the same. It's Boeynaems who says his father sent him to train for a commercial profession. The continued remoteness is hardly relevant to this article once Damien is no longer there; and is discussed on the Kalaupapa page. What is the direct relation of all those listed disease to leprosy? Manannan67 (talk) 00:01, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it might be better to have some more eyes on this. Qwirkle (talk) 00:12, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third rate article 

message: :Umm, no. The youngest often inherited the bulk of the estate in rural societies.  Qwirkle (talk) 15:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Would still need a citation to show that it applied in his family. Manannan67 (talk) 19:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I believe we had one, although I agree it might not have been the highest calibre. Qwirkle (talk) 20:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultimogeniture