Talk:Chrono Trigger/Archive 2

message: When adding content to the article, please do not use the second person (ie "you") unless stating a quotation.  Having the second person means we'll never be featured.  I've had to go around editing these out.  Please help by not using second person.  Thank you. Crazyswordsman 06:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: IMPORTANT NOTICE:

message: ===New Peer Review?===
The last blight on the article is the "rarity / price" section. Once the study concludes on the 25th (see that section in this talk page for details), it'll be ready. Can we then submit it for peer review? --Zeality 19:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing how there are still articles from April 21 to check in the list, I believe this article may not be reviewed in a couple of weekis. -- ReyBrujo 22:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's plenty of time to get it up to snuff. Crazyswordsman 22:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wouldn't worry about it guys, it will be a bit before it gets reviewed, and it has already improved so much....
Here are some thoughs I had about improvement, let me know what you think:
*Totally rewrite plot section
*clarify chrono's death
*incorporate the chrono trigger into the plot 
*elaborate on the different endings if you beat it the second go around 
*merge character and time period sections into main plot like Final Fantasy X
*Copyedit to make tone more formal and make accessible to non-gamers.
*expand reception section
*fill in statements that need references
*look for primary sources for the article.
Thoughts? Good, bad, add something? Judgesurreal777 06:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Moved everything up to a to do box, add anything you think necessary to make this an awesome article! Judgesurreal777 20:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Curious; should we add anymore images, or is the current amount fine? Can you spot anything that would be clarified by a helpful image? --Zeality 01:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: If Crono didn't really die, then they wouldn't need the clone.  In the original time space, Crono dies.  The purpose for the egg is to go back in time and substitute the clone for Crono.  It is only in the revised time space that Crono doesn't die. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 15:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Ummmm, I would take a look at the articles that have just been awarded GA status, such as Israel at 67kb. I also believe that the Good article designation helps short articles, but it not reserved exclusively for them. I suggest that we get a concensus to get GA status and then do a peer review, more improvement, then a FA candidacy. Judgesurreal777 22:23, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I read your comments on the GA place, and I may agree with you afterall....but, I think we should proceed with a Peer review soon :) I know it needs references, but otherwise it's looking far better than it did Judgesurreal777 23:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, in other words, this will go to FA without passing through GA?  That doesn't make any sense. Crazyswordsman 01:39, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: If people disagree with this step, feel free to renominate it, as it seems that far larger articles have gone through the process, and it seems that Worldtravellers view is just a view not a policy at this time.Judgesurreal777 03:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My original plan was to get this through a Peer Review before submitting it anyway. Crazyswordsman 03:34, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Articles can go to FA without passing through GA. I suggest working some more and then submitting directly to FA. -- ReyBrujo 03:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: What he said. --Kizor 10:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: FA Metadiscussion

message: The last blight on the article is the "rarity / price" section. Once the study concludes on the 25th (see that section in this talk page for details), it'll be ready. Can we then submit it for peer review? --Zeality 19:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New Peer Review?

message: I honestly don't think its quite there yet.  It should be by the end of the week. Crazyswordsman 22:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing how there are still articles from April 21 to check in the list, I believe this article may not be reviewed in a couple of weekis. -- ReyBrujo 22:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's plenty of time to get it up to snuff. Crazyswordsman 22:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wouldn't worry about it guys, it will be a bit before it gets reviewed, and it has already improved so much....
Here are some thoughs I had about improvement, let me know what you think:
*Totally rewrite plot section
*clarify chrono's death
*incorporate the chrono trigger into the plot 
*elaborate on the different endings if you beat it the second go around 
*merge character and time period sections into main plot like Final Fantasy X
*Copyedit to make tone more formal and make accessible to non-gamers.
*expand reception section
*fill in statements that need references
*look for primary sources for the article.
Thoughts? Good, bad, add something? Judgesurreal777 06:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Moved everything up to a to do box, add anything you think necessary to make this an awesome article! Judgesurreal777 20:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Curious; should we add anymore images, or is the current amount fine? Can you spot anything that would be clarified by a helpful image? --Zeality 01:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: If Crono didn't really die, then they wouldn't need the clone.  In the original time space, Crono dies.  The purpose for the egg is to go back in time and substitute the clone for Crono.  It is only in the revised time space that Crono doesn't die. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 15:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Premature nomination?

message: I removed this from the good articles nominations list because the one person review system there is designed for short articles - this one is 42kb long.  Peer review and/or FAC will be more productive for an article of this length.  Worldtraveller 21:05, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ummmm, I would take a look at the articles that have just been awarded GA status, such as Israel at 67kb. I also believe that the Good article designation helps short articles, but it not reserved exclusively for them. I suggest that we get a concensus to get GA status and then do a peer review, more improvement, then a FA candidacy. Judgesurreal777 22:23, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I read your comments on the GA place, and I may agree with you afterall....but, I think we should proceed with a Peer review soon :) I know it needs references, but otherwise it's looking far better than it did Judgesurreal777 23:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, in other words, this will go to FA without passing through GA?  That doesn't make any sense. Crazyswordsman 01:39, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If people disagree with this step, feel free to renominate it, as it seems that far larger articles have gone through the process, and it seems that Worldtravellers view is just a view not a policy at this time.Judgesurreal777 03:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My original plan was to get this through a Peer Review before submitting it anyway. Crazyswordsman 03:34, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Articles can go to FA without passing through GA. I suggest working some more and then submitting directly to FA. -- ReyBrujo 03:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA review

message: Are you sure it is B-Class? It may not be A, but I'd at least call it a Good Article at the moment. It's not lacking any information, and the article flows from a proper exposition to lesser details. This article doesn't really need substantial copyediting or lacks big gaps in the prose, and it's not biased towards anything. I guess if there really is no other classification, B could fit, but I think Chrono Trigger is a good, well referenced article. (Here come cries of favoritism!) --Zeality 19:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What he said. --Kizor 10:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: B-Class

message: Is there a way to limit the depth of the table of contents?  What is a reasonable size of the TOC? wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 11:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Table of contents has been shortened by eliminating Time Period / Character headers and the development header. --Zeality 19:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Fixed. --Zeality 19:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Table of Contents

message: ====Text polishing====
Just FYI, in hopes of getting this article in shape for GA status and another peer review, I took a big step and broke up the time period and character stuff to begin slowely dividing it up between a much shorter, chronological plot section and a character section that explains the origins of the characters in the development section, like the Final Fantasy X article. Thanks! Judgesurreal777 19:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Although it is good, it is a HUGE block of information. Please divide that in paragraphs to make it visually attractive. -- ReyBrujo 20:07, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Crazyswordsman 22:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Wonderful. We should do this for Chrono Cross sometime. I'll try to make any positive contributions to all the Chrono articles linked from Trigger at the moment to help out. --Zeality 06:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Story

message: Just FYI, in hopes of getting this article in shape for GA status and another peer review, I took a big step and broke up the time period and character stuff to begin slowely dividing it up between a much shorter, chronological plot section and a character section that explains the origins of the characters in the development section, like the Final Fantasy X article. Thanks! Judgesurreal777 19:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Although it is good, it is a HUGE block of information. Please divide that in paragraphs to make it visually attractive. -- ReyBrujo 20:07, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Crazyswordsman 22:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Wonderful. We should do this for Chrono Cross sometime. I'll try to make any positive contributions to all the Chrono articles linked from Trigger at the moment to help out. --Zeality 06:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Text polishing

message: ====Too short criticism====
I'm starting a poll at the Compendium asking fans what they perceive to be Chrono Trigger's "real flaw." Perhaps we can cite it in a couple days. --Zeality 19:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I cant provide a citable source at this time, but I can tell you that I own 3 of the famicom collector cards, the Magus battle, the "snow battle" and a character portrait of Ayly (Eira).  I have seen, in person, the epoch scene and several other character portraits.  I am confirming the existence of these cards, as I already had once.  Hopefully this can ease the requisite for citation.  I should be able to provide photos of the cards I have, but not until after May 19th.  In the meantime I will keep looking for citeable references to the cards.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 01:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh! I think I remember the cards...these suckers? --Zeality 04:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, thank you.  I will be able to provide a GFL photo of my own creation of one of the cards after the 19th.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 05:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Ebay auctions don't stay up for long after they are completed.  While it is ok to keep a reference to a web article that is taken down, it would be somewhat irrisponsible in my opinion to reference a known temporary article.  It may be more appropriate for someone to create a semi-permanent (thats the best it'll ever get on the web) mirror of one of these ebay auctions and cite that (assuming it does not violate copyright of course)--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 06:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We could keep track of Ebay auctions to gauge a price, but determining if it is rare in relation to other SNES games is impossible without a real reference guide. --Zeality 05:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to EverythingAndNothing, 2.31m units were sold.  It may be rare in America and Europe, where it sold only 200k and 80k respectively, but not in Japan, where it sold over 2m. So, I am one of those 200k guys then :-) -- ReyBrujo 06:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to bookmark all the current CT auctions and see how they end up. I'll classify them according quality (cartridge versus shrinkwrapped game at extremes). I'll post the results at the Compendium. It smells of original research, but it will be accurate and up to date, at least. --Zeality 01:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The price study is concluded; all those references are taken care of. Tomorrow, I'm tallying the "What is CT's worst flaw" votes and posting them at  this page, which will give us the "too short" reference. Then it's nomination for peer review. --Zeality 22:21, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Different Versions

message: I'm starting a poll at the Compendium asking fans what they perceive to be Chrono Trigger's "real flaw." Perhaps we can cite it in a couple days. --Zeality 19:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Too short criticism

message: I've finished mine, and right now the most troublesome paragraph seems to be "Super Famicom/Super Nintendo version." I can't remember who referenced the "auction guide" mentioned in that section, and it will be similarly hard to find some kind of citation for what's happening at Ebay.com. --Zeality 20:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I cant provide a citable source at this time, but I can tell you that I own 3 of the famicom collector cards, the Magus battle, the "snow battle" and a character portrait of Ayly (Eira).  I have seen, in person, the epoch scene and several other character portraits.  I am confirming the existence of these cards, as I already had once.  Hopefully this can ease the requisite for citation.  I should be able to provide photos of the cards I have, but not until after May 19th.  In the meantime I will keep looking for citeable references to the cards.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 01:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh! I think I remember the cards...these suckers? --Zeality 04:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, thank you.  I will be able to provide a GFL photo of my own creation of one of the cards after the 19th.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 05:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Prism Cards

message: The second source needing citation is down from the internet.  However, I found two sources NOT in WP:RS that confirm this (aka message boards) using Google.  They have links to the original article, which has been taken down.  For the other two citations, just link to eBay auctions (not WP:RS, but primary sources).  For the Europe one I don't know.  Let's see if we can ask some European gamers this. Crazyswordsman 06:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ebay auctions don't stay up for long after they are completed.  While it is ok to keep a reference to a web article that is taken down, it would be somewhat irrisponsible in my opinion to reference a known temporary article.  It may be more appropriate for someone to create a semi-permanent (thats the best it'll ever get on the web) mirror of one of these ebay auctions and cite that (assuming it does not violate copyright of course)--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 06:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We could keep track of Ebay auctions to gauge a price, but determining if it is rare in relation to other SNES games is impossible without a real reference guide. --Zeality 05:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to EverythingAndNothing, 2.31m units were sold.  It may be rare in America and Europe, where it sold only 200k and 80k respectively, but not in Japan, where it sold over 2m. So, I am one of those 200k guys then :-) -- ReyBrujo 06:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to bookmark all the current CT auctions and see how they end up. I'll classify them according quality (cartridge versus shrinkwrapped game at extremes). I'll post the results at the Compendium. It smells of original research, but it will be accurate and up to date, at least. --Zeality 01:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The price study is concluded; all those references are taken care of. Tomorrow, I'm tallying the "What is CT's worst flaw" votes and posting them at  this page, which will give us the "too short" reference. Then it's nomination for peer review. --Zeality 22:21, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Is ''Chrono Trigger'' a rare game?

message: Are the tables in the Different versions section really necessary? There are only two of them, they are very small, and they contain the exact same information (Square, Japan, 1995). A simple image caption should suffice, should it not? ~ Hibana 22:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Version tables

message: There is probably an article somewhere regarding this. Crazyswordsman 06:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Playstation reference

message: ====How much time DOES it take to max stats?====
I'm sure it varies from gamer to gamer.  Links to several reviews may be helpful. Crazyswordsman 06:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly doubt any encyclopedic inclusion will be nearly impossible any way, but from personal experience, maybe 100 hours or so if you're just curious.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 05:39, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you find a good, easy battle that gives you lots of experience and do it over and over again (like i did), it'll take 60-70 hours. Peaceman 00:22, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems to be moot now that it has been removed. --Zeality 19:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reception

message: I'm sure it varies from gamer to gamer.  Links to several reviews may be helpful. Crazyswordsman 06:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly doubt any encyclopedic inclusion will be nearly impossible any way, but from personal experience, maybe 100 hours or so if you're just curious.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 05:39, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you find a good, easy battle that gives you lots of experience and do it over and over again (like i did), it'll take 60-70 hours. Peaceman 00:22, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems to be moot now that it has been removed. --Zeality 19:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: How much time DOES it take to max stats?

message: Is the "Rom Hacks" section necessary? Although Chrono Trigger is a popular game to hack, I think that the section doesn't really add anything to the article, and could be put under "Unofficial Releases" or simply cut altogether. Opinions? Brown Bomber 21:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rom Hacks

message: ====Chrono Trigger Endings====
I am the author of "List of Chrono Trigger Endings", which was originally written for the SNES version, and was updated for PS.  The reference is to the original HTML page, and a text version of it can be found in gamefaqs, so I assume it would be considered a reliable source, and could be considered primary for its age, if nothing else.  Since I am on the faculty, the site has been there for over 10 years, and should continue to be there for some time. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 10:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: I am the author of "List of Chrono Trigger Endings", which was originally written for the SNES version, and was updated for PS.  The reference is to the original HTML page, and a text version of it can be found in gamefaqs, so I assume it would be considered a reliable source, and could be considered primary for its age, if nothing else.  Since I am on the faculty, the site has been there for over 10 years, and should continue to be there for some time. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 10:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chrono Trigger Endings

message: What needs to be demonstrated for the site to be accepted as a reliable source? I understand that it may never be so by basis of being a fan site, but aside from the Theory section, the information there either comes from the scripts of the games, game data itself, or interviews / published documents. --Zeality 01:43, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Compendium

message: I think the characters section could be given its own page, List of Chrono Trigger characters, mainly to take detail out of the main article.  If we want this to be featured, we need to stick to a general overview on this article, and other pages could go more in-depth.  This is similar to the way Final Fantasy VI does it. Crazyswordsman 16:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I say a bulk of the character information be moved to said article and a concise paragraph about all the main characters be made in its place in the main article. All the minor characters that were deleted from the main article (Toma, Spekkio, etc.) could also be added to the new article. Perhaps similar action could be taken for the time periods (List of Chrono Trigger time periods ?). ~ Hibana 16:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Sounds good. Chrono Cross looks great after segmenting in that manner, and it'll also give a page where extra information can be filled in about NPCs. I'll add it to the new peer review to do list. --Zeality 20:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, Chrono Cross was handled with a Chrono Cross Plot page, wherein timelines and the basic storyline could be found. I'm going to make a Chrono Trigger Plot page and link it to the template; I can place a larger summary and the time periods there. --Zeality 20:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This article is a bit long.

message: I'm going to update the to-do list with our pending tasks and cross them off as I go along. Time to make a major effort! --Zeality 20:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and removed them. --Zeality 02:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, wow, totally forgot about that. I'm going to dig up some source information and add it later, unless I get beaten to it. Peer review seems to have died down, which may be a good sign. --Zeality 22:36, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Sounds good. I'm about to go on vacation for a while. Good luck maintaining the article; it's on the road to featured. Hopefully when I get back, we can submit Chrono Cross for peer review and get it rocking too. I just filled in the last 'citation-needed', so it is now a solid, sourced article. --Zeality 22:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just don't go overboard with the images, okay?  Also, make sure the text doesn't get screwed up too much by the images.  I'll see what I can do about it. Crazyswordsman 17:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Greetings from the mountains. Everything looks great! How far off do you think we are? This is Zeality. --216.184.29.154 20:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I honestly don't know.  I'm not much of a prose writer. Crazyswordsman 22:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Peer Review came in

message: Most of the images are properly placed, but the two problem children are http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/33/Chrono_Trigger_Title_Screen.png/256px-Chrono_Trigger_Title_Screen.png and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Chrono_Trigger_logo.gif . They really don't illustrate or illuminate anything in the accompanying text, and having the logo is redundant since it is featured in the title screen. What should we do with these? --Zeality 21:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and removed them. --Zeality 02:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair Use Rationale

message: Okay, here's an update. Text has been polished across the entire article, shooting for brevity and ease of reading. Weasel words and lengthy paranthetical commentary have been eliminated. The gameplay section has been edited to make it more accessible to non-gamers. I also added some references from Nintendo Power's review to substantiate the claims of innovation. The story section has been heavily edited; a new plot summary is up, and a main plot summary as well as the list of time periods have been removed to their own article. The character section received the same treatment; two summarizing paragraphs replace the former list. The section on the beta version has been shortened to one paragraph, as has the section on unofficial versions. Needed references were added to the potential future sequels section, and only 10 of 48 references come from the Chrono Compendium now. I've contacted a couple English majors and a competent writer who will polish the prose (if they get around to it). Make any changes you see fit! --Zeality 02:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Progress Report

message: I noticed that there was no mention of the Chrono Trigger OVA in the article. I recently watched it here on YouTube. Should it be included to fill out the information on the Sequels section, in the midst of the feature drive, or should it wait? ~ Hibana 22:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, wow, totally forgot about that. I'm going to dig up some source information and add it later, unless I get beaten to it. Peer review seems to have died down, which may be a good sign. --Zeality 22:36, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chrono Trigger OVA

message: I feel like the article needs a few more images. It feels somewhat bare to me now that the title screen is gone (not that it contributed to much). It only has 6 images counting the boxart. Maybe we should include one appropriate selection in the Story section and one in the Characters section. Thoughts? ~ Hibana 22:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. I'm about to go on vacation for a while. Good luck maintaining the article; it's on the road to featured. Hopefully when I get back, we can submit Chrono Cross for peer review and get it rocking too. I just filled in the last 'citation-needed', so it is now a solid, sourced article. --Zeality 22:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just don't go overboard with the images, okay?  Also, make sure the text doesn't get screwed up too much by the images.  I'll see what I can do about it. Crazyswordsman 17:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Greetings from the mountains. Everything looks great! How far off do you think we are? This is Zeality. --216.184.29.154 20:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I honestly don't know.  I'm not much of a prose writer. Crazyswordsman 22:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: I removed it per discussion on the matter at Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Computer and video games.  Final Fantasy X, a Featured article, does not have it, either.  I figure removing the tag will help us in our efforts as well.  Please don't readd it without discussing it here first. Crazyswordsman 21:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I removed the Spoiler tag 

message: *COMPOSER THE - Do we really need that "the" before the composer? Tony's points were valid, but I have a bone to pick with that one. None of the other person descriptions need it, and the fact that Uematsu only did some of the games' soundtracks is clarified by the "several" adjective later in the sentence. --Zeality 17:21, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The referenced main article is supposed to be comprehensive.  The story section on this page can be fairly complete, but doesn't need all the details.  (For example, whether Magus is defeated or joins the group.)  One of the goals for this set of edits was to make it a featured article.  If it is too long, then it could be disqualified as a featured article. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 12:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no such thing as too long when you're trying to be comprehensive. There's no "one size fits all" standard for length, as not all plots are the same length. A plot section is supposed to be as long as it needs to be in order to touch on all major story arcs, their developments, and their resolutions. Ryu Kaze 02:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Moreover, a featured article must be comprehensive in its own right. — Deckiller 03:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ironing things out (post issues here)

message: I'm not sure if anyone else is aware of references to CT in pop culture, but there is an reference to chronotrigger in the tv series Arrested Development (albeit somewhat obscure), which may be worth mentioning in the article. If anyone knows of other references, it may be worth adding, just to demonstrate the far-reaching influences of CT. Timbatron 22:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has to be of a Reliable Source.  Strong Bad also mentioned the game in his Couch Mumbling gag once, but we can't include that either.  If we weren't looking to feature the article, I'd reconsider.  But that's not the case.  Although we probably can't include it (I wish from the bottom of my heart that we could), I'd like to see where you found this out. Sir Crazyswordsman 00:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I agree that this probably doesn't belong on this page. I noticed the reference myself when I was watching through season 3 a second time. There's a scene where Michael Sr. talks about an idea he had of making a floating island in the sky. They cut to a drawing of an island floating in the sky, and the music that is played is almsot the same as the music from "Zeal Island" Timbatron 20:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in pop culture 

message: I seriously doubt Chrono Cross was "Chrono Trigger's better known PlayStation sequel".  Chrono Trigger is still referenced in pop culture, while Chrono Cross is not.  Chrono Trigger appears in many lists praising the top games, where are Chrono Cross is only mentioned nowadays when referring to Chrono Trigger.  I don't have sources to back up the last part, but I guarantee you a you'll find more mentions of and references to the original than Chrono Cross. -Unknownwarrior33 07:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The better known is meant to compare Chrono Cross to Radical Dreamers. --Zeality 10:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That should probably be clarified. Sir Crazyswordsman 14:50, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Got it. Ryu Kaze 15:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better known? 

message: Congratulations, everyone!
If someone wants to prepare our main page blurb here, we can request August 22nd or something in that neighborhood. Not sure if there's a remote chance we'll get it, but this is the date CT was released in the USA. Do we also get to add Wikipedia 1.0 CD selection, or is that all handled through Project:CVG?
Chrono Cross is next. I printed it out and did a hardcopy round of editing, and I've solicited some other help from the Compendium in making it shine. --Zeality 19:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha-zaa! It's about time! ~ Hibana 22:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt we'll see any video game articles in Wikipedia 1.0, sadly. :( I wanted to get Final Fantasy VIII or Shadow of the Colossus in there, but I just don't think they're going to take any. Perhaps in a later version. Good luck, though, if you want to try it. Ryu Kaze 02:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA 

message: I wanted to post this remark before the article gains FA status. I want to comment on the lead: It doesn't tell what the game is about, not even a small summary of what the game goal is, and therefore it doesn't summarise the article. And plus there is too much information about the people involved in the production: Mentioning the audio composer and director is too futile to be mentioned in the lead. CG 19:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It does mention what the game is about.  Read the end of the first paragraph.  It has the a summary of the story in it.  Most of the articles done by "Team Square Enix" follow the format used in Chrono Trigger.  Our other featured articles, Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy X, and Final Fantasy X-2 follow a similar format to Chrono Trigger. Sir Crazyswordsman 03:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think he posted that before we added story information lead a few hours ago. --Zeality 05:04, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the lead 

message: I just discovered . I think it is a good replacement for the inline game citations the article has now. Does the one who added those dialogs be able to change it? -- ReyBrujo 01:31, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done for all the Chrono articles.--Zeality 16:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video game citations 

message: "one of only four Square Enix games outside the Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy franchises to have sold more than one million copies by 2003"
According to the reference, there are much more than four Square Enix games that have sold more than one million copies. There:
*SaGa Frontier (1,080 million)
*Parasite EVE 2 (1,090)
*Chocobo no Fushigina Dungeon (1,140)
*Xenogears (1,190)
*Romancing SaGa (1,320)
*Makaitoushi SaGa (1,370)
*Romancing SaGa 2 (1,490)
*Chrono Cross (1,500)
*Seiken Densetsu 2 (1,830)
*Parasite EVE (1,940)
*Chrono Trigger (2,650)
*Kingdom Hearts (3,300)
Twelve games... So I guess I'm deleting the sentence. Kariteh 18:19, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reception and criticism 

message: Am I the only one who finds it weird that there is no easily noticable reference to Chrono Cross in the article? I could understand this if Chrono Cross was some kind of pseudo-sequel/weird spin-off, or if it had some weird circumstances where people are not aware of the relation between the two games. But that isn't the case. It is a direct sequel that was fairly popular, but is only mentioned twice.
It is mentioned that Chrono Cross made use of the New Game+ concept, which gives no indication of Chrono Cross's relation to Chrono Trigger.
It is then mentioned in the sequels section, and is given about the same amount of text as every other sequel, with absolutely no indication that it was a fairly popular game at the time of its release, or how it is related to Chrono Trigger (saying it was adapted from Radical Dreamers does not really do justice to how it relates to Chrono Trigger).
For a comparison, look at The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. That game is considered to be much more popular and well known than its sequel, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, but nonetheless, Majora's Mask is mentioned in the first paragraph of the article on Ocarina of Time. I think that Chrono Cross defintiely needs a mention in the beginning of this article, and probably its own paragraph in the Sequels section, because at this point it seems like it is just a side note in the description of Radical Dreamers. I think that seems like a weird way to mention it, given that it is inarguably more well known than Radical Dreamers.
Any thoughts?
:You can add some more text about Chrono Cross in the Sequels section, but remember, the article is about Chrono Trigger, not Chrono Cross.  I would also suggest that we should add a "See Also" section.  I'm not sure if Chrono Cross should be mentioned in the opening paragraph, but certainly in the "See Also" section.
:There are a lot of articles about Chrono Trigger, but no easy way to find them all.  I recommend creating a "Chrono Trigger Characters" page, which could include links to the various articles on characters.  The reason I suggest the  new page is because I think a long list of character articles in the "See Also" section could get messy, but maybe I'm wrong. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 12:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chrono Cross 

message: This may be off-topic, but comparing the tunes of the trial in Chrono Trigger and Pink Floyd's track The Trial (from The Wall), they sound strikingly similar in some respects.  Perhaps such a comment could go under a 'Trivia' section? --65.96.218.168 00:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A couple of problems with that: (1) Trivia sections are frowned upon, especially in featured articles, which are supposed to exemplify Wikipedia best work (meaning, among other things, good prose, not choppy lists of disparate facts). Worse, (2) unless that comparison is mentioned in a reliable source, it's original research, which is forbidden. — TKD::Talk 00:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kingdom Trial 

message: Both parts of the fan projects section are seemingly notable. The CTR / CTRP projects are notable because they elicited a cease & desist letter from Square Enix. Compare to several modification articles and...well, it seems Halogen ISN'T mentioned on the Halo articles, despite a disambig page. Well, disregarding that, fan translations are usually mentioned on CVG articles. We had a discussion about this somewhere in the WP:CVG archives after some guy started removing information about the translation for Radical Dreamers. Nonetheless, the ones for Chrono Trigger aren't done yet, and I guess they could be left out until they're complete. As for the CTR / CTRP, I leave that up to other members to argue for / against. --Zeality 18:18, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fan translations are usually the only way English-speaking gamers encounter certain games, whereas these fan projects are are coming years and years after the release of the game and didn't even get finished. I'd say CTR/CTRP, I'd say they need to stay out unless someone comes up with some independent coverage, and the fan translations of released games probably shouldn't be mentioned save under the same conditions. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That 3D version of Chrono Trigger even made the national standard press in Australia, well the "games corner" of the sunday pull out anyway. People really did want it and it was talked about quite a bit for a fan project. On the flip side, I can't say I've even really heard of any other mods/fan makes for Chrono Trigger. Not to say they weren't famous, I don't know if they were or not, I've just never heard of them JayKeaton 14:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to chime in...I remembered that there are several articles linked here (I think almost ten) covering CTR. They're at the bottom. The entire CTR thing still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, so it's up to you guys. Once the retranslation is finished, I'll stick it back in there, since game articles with sound English translations still make mention of completed ones (like Final Fantasy IV). There are quite a few differences (though nothing earth-shattering). --Zeality 08:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fan Projects

message: However, other critics, such as the staff of video game websites RPGFan and RPGamer... personally I question wether or not these two fan sites are note worthy. Only three actual article pages link to RPGFan, one of them is Chrono Trigger, and any mention of RPGamer seems to have been added by the same person. Shouldn't critics be someone that can get a press pass, not some guy on a fansite (I love fansites by the way, fight the incorporated game sites like IGN! But, they are still just fansites). If there are no objections in the next week, I will delete mention of both those sites and make it say "some fans felt that it was too short" or summat like that. Even then I'm not sure if two guys from two fansites are enough people to warrent mentioning. I could say the cart was made of solid gold and put it on my own site, rpgfan4eva.com, but that still doesn't make it true. And certainly not note worthy JayKeaton 14:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The notability test comes from Game Rankings, where we go to get reviews. If a fan site is listed at Game Rankings, it's...generally trustworthy, though only sites in bold typeface are 100% sure. I'm not sure if these two are regular or bold...but they're at least listed. IIRC, we had to do some digging to find those citations, since fan polls to the same effect can't be used. --Zeality 08:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: RPG Fansites

message: The "Gameplay" section cites Radiata Stories as an example of another game where Square used the New Game+ concept -- but Radiata Stories wasn't developed by Square (or Square Enix), it was developed by tri-Ace, an independent company.  (See the Wikipedia page.)  I think it's a little inaccurate to list in this context, and there are plenty of other examples, so I've removed Radiata Stories from the list.  Hope there are no objections... Kuribosshoe 03:11, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radiata Stories 

message: The names of the three gurus predates Chrono Trigger, as mentioned in Three_Wise_Men#Names. The addition has been removed. --Htmlism 23:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colbert Trivia 

message: Why is it impossible to find this game at any used game store, yet many other SNES games are available. Why is it almost nobody has heard of this game, yet has heard of other games? I think CT's popularity is simply an illusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.103.71.130 (talk • contribs) 12:44, 13 December 2006
:Actually, the fact that you can't find it is evidence of its popularity. It's the same case with other popular games: Earthbound, Super Mario World, Super Mario RPG; no one who has the game wants to sell it. Dlong 17:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And you can find tens of copies at any given time on Ebay. --Zeality 19:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  That many copies? 

message: "...as most modern single-player titles continue to feature a transition from field or overworld map to battle screens."
Neverwinter Nights 2, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Dungeon Siege II to name a few do not contain this feature, so I'm pretty sure this statement is incorrect. Namazi 23:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've since removed the statement. --Htmlism 23:47, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect Statement