Talk:Regina caeli

message: ===Merge===
I think it's a pretty obvious merge, but I don't know which title to put it at. I'm confused at the spelling of the word caeli/coeli. Contribute to Talk:Credo if you can explain it. Rigadoun 16:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine, but the prayer is included in entirety in the other article, which seemed redundant. That info can be put here and removed from there. Rigadoun 18:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merging

message: I think it's a pretty obvious merge, but I don't know which title to put it at. I'm confused at the spelling of the word caeli/coeli. Contribute to Talk:Credo if you can explain it. Rigadoun 16:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

message: This article is about the prayer Regina Coeli, not the title of the Blessed Virgin in her capacity as Queen of Heaven. Are you Catholic or Protestant? If you were Catholic, you'd know your prayers.
:That's fine, but the prayer is included in entirety in the other article, which seemed redundant. That info can be put here and removed from there. Rigadoun 18:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Do not merge

message: At Wikipedia:Requested moves, there was a request to move this article to Regina Caeli.  I've copied the request and the ensuing discussion here:
:*:Regina Coeli → :Regina Caeli - 'Caeli' is the correct Latin spelling of the word, 'Coeli' is a later Mediaeval mistake. InfernoXV 19:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: **Comment. Catholic Encyclopedia uses "Coeli", as do numerous churches and schools. Ghits are almost 4.5:1 for "Coeli". Can you please bring a cite? Thanks. --SigPig |SEND - OVER 02:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

text: **Reply. Um. How about wiktionary:caelum and ? The current Latin editions published by Rome these days are very careful not to use coeli, but rather caeli. Also Ave Regina Caelorum is somehow better known as 'caelorum' than 'coelorum', and more hits turn up for 'caelorum' in Google than for 'coelorum'. They're the same word, and it doesn't make sense to have variants as page names. Also, Lewis & Short, the standard Latin lexicon, lists 'coelum' as a later variant of 'caelum'. InfernoXV 11:15, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

text: A fascinating question. There is no question that Caeli would be the classical spelling; there is no question that this poem is post-classical. There is relatively little question that Coeli or Celi would be the medieval spelling. So who are we being contemporary with?  (The New Catholic Encyclopedia puts their article under Regina Caeli Laetare, which might be better disambiguation.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I think it's now clear which spelling was used when, but it remains unclear which we should be using. It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. --Stemonitis 08:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move (2007) 

message: I've added "", which I believe is the current church form. But near where I live (in Croydon, UK) there is a Regina Coeli School which is used as the name of a bus stop. The automated announcement on the bus calls it [reˈdʒiːnə koʊˈeɪli]. Has anyone else come across this sort of pronunciation, or should I just complain to Transport For London that they've got it wrong? --rossb (talk) 00:00, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The latter pronunciation is just plain wrong. --capmo 04:51, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Capmo: Your sudden move of Ave Regina Coelorum cited this talk page as justification. I do not see that anyone agreed to that here, or there, except you. I suggest that should be discussed before you suddenly declare defeat here and victory there. History2007 (talk) 05:25, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not declaring anything like "defeat" and "victory". For me "victory" would mean both articles using the correct Latin form, as I understand it. But since you all agreed that Medieval Latin is more pertinent in this case and that the Raccolta is to be used as the definitive authority, I'm just using the same arguments in the other article, for the sake of uniformity. As you can check here, there's nothing to discuss about this uncontroversial move which returned that article to its original title. --capmo 05:57, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If Raccolta says Ave Regina Coelorum, then I would support the move you did. But it would have been easier to ask beforehand. But let us wait and see what everyone else thinks. History2007 (talk) 06:02, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that there have been no objections here, and given that Raccolta uses Ave Regina Coelorum, I think the move makes sense. Unless there are objections, I will do it in a few days. History2007 (talk) 12:13, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ave Regina Coelorum: sudden move

message: Greetings! I have updated the infobox image to one which I feel is much more appropriate to the article topic: Mary's queenship and coronation by the Risen Christ. Please discuss if you have any comments or suggestions. I would welcome modifications to the caption, which may be too long or not comprehensive enough, I am not sure. 2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 (talk) 01:43, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updated infobox image 

message: The hymn and the various other occurrences of this Latin phrase are just particular uses of a fundamental Catholic concept, Mary as the Queen of Heaven. That should be explained first, and all the different uses of the phrases should branch off from there, as they are legion. Arminden (talk) 14:28, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this is English-language Wikipedia, the article for the general concept is located at Queen of Heaven, the English translation of "Regina caeli." In English, "Regina caeli" untranslated primarily refers to the hymn, hence the focus of this article. But in response to your concern, I have added a hatnote link to Queen of Heaven to make it easier for people to find the other article. Jdcompguy (talk) 16:16, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, so then let's place all the needed cross-references so far missing! On my way to do that. Arminden (talk) 17:26, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

text: , unlike in coding, here it's not about an abstract logical diagram where each spelling has the same value. It's about spoken & written language. There is an overriding topic, Queen of Heaven, with a Latin origin, but the original Latin phrase gets spelled in N different ways. If you can show that people in general a.) know one meaning and don't know much or anything about the other ones, and b.) use one spelling much more often than the other variants, then you have a case for directing everybody to that by-far-best-known meaning, according to how I understood Wiki rules. But otherwise, the logical way to go about it is to bundle all spellings together = DAB page, and take it from there. To separate a few spellings from the total number of permutations ("upper/lower case" x "oe/ae") and redirect them to the antiphon, while redirecting the remaining ones to the DAB page - why? What's the rationale? Please explain. Thanks, Arminden (talk) 20:29, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  In the English language, "Regina caeli" (together with its various spelling permutations) is first and foremost used to refer to the Marian antiphon. Hence, all spelling/capitalization permutations (Regina Caeli, Regina coeli, and Regina Coeli) all did, and should continue to, redirect here, to Regina caeli. This is because the Marian antiphon is the primary topic for all of the spellings. "Queen of Heaven," which has its own English-titled article hatnoted from here, would be the primary topic for "Regina caeli" etc. only if this were the Latin Wikipedia. There are several pages on Wikipedia that include "Regina Coeli" (with "oe" and capital "C") in the title, and these get linked from Regina Coeli (disambiguation). If someone is looking for "Regina caeli/coeli" on Wikipedia, it's by far most likely that they are looking for the Marian antiphon, not the Roman prison or some obscure church. Jdcompguy (talk) 23:05, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you, now I understand what you mean. I'm neither Catholic nor an English native-speaker, so I would never argue with those arguments. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 23:11, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're welcome, and thanks for the cordial discussion. All the best. Jdcompguy (talk) 23:15, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regina caeli, Queen of Heaven, is a general concept in Catholicism, that should have precedence