Talk:Pope Sylvester II

message: False claims about study in Islamic Spain and even Morocco.
The article implies that the future Sylvester II studied in Islamic Spain and even in Morocco - he did not, the claims are nonsense.90.195.121.234 (talk) 08:25, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: 1

message: A small reference to astrology should be in this article -- do you happen to know that astronomy as a science didn't even exist for another 600 years or so after his death -- astronomy and astrology were the same thing.  Plus, 90 percent of the Arabic texts that he translated were concerning astrology -- the Arabs preserved astrology for the West during the so called "Dark Ages."  If you don't believe me LOOK IT UP and find out for yourself!
Face the facts buddy -- just because he was a Pope and Christian doesn't mean that he didn't study and use astrology -- most every literate person did in those days!  Stop white-washing history!  You're being fascistic -- I'm just trying to tell the truth.
:please sign your posts. I shouldn't even reply to this. you are right that astronomy and astrology were not clearly separated in the 10th century. The point here is that Gerbert was interested in things that in modern terminology we would clearly label as astronomy: He was not trying to tell the future from the stars, he was interested in the movement of the earth (again, in our modern terminology. in a geocentric picture, he was interested in the movement of the stars and the sun), mainly for purposes of timekeeping and the christian calendar. The church frowned upon astrological (in the modern sense) practices.  astrologia in the latin texts doesn't simply translate to English astrology. If you find a reference to astrology (in the modern sense, i.e. connecting human character to the zodiac or similar) in Gerberts writings, cite it, and we will include it. with "in those days" you probably mean the 17th century, where indeed almost everybody studied astrology. Not so in the tenth century. dab 08:15, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Gerbert's writings are in Migne's Patrologia, volume 139. I have not read them all, and it is not impossible that there is a reference to a horoscope or similar. If you point to a passage that we would label "astrological", I will be happy to include it in the article. Until then, I see no evidence that Gerbert, whose interest was clearly mathematical and abstract, was involved in astrology. Also, if you don't use an account, I will assume that you are identical with the vandal that used your IP in recent days, and I will not reply to you again. dab 08:30, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Astrology

message: Oboy, I kinda feel for you, I'm sorry, looks like you've been fighting this for a while. I'll sign my post at least!
First off, I'm not the same guy as your anonymous slinger of "fascist", and don't like that, either. Not civilized discourse, and a common unthinking misuse of a very precise word.
Secondly, I have no particular brief for or against Popes, astrology, or this particular Pope/possible astrologer; just added the characterization from my French heritage, where it is one of those things that everybody knows.
If I've taken this long to reply, it's that it's beginning to look like that this is one of those many things out there that just ain't so.... but I'm not convinced yet. The smoke surrounding Gerbert, his tomb, his astronomical and mathematical interests (and you'll admit that's always hanging around astrology up to about 1650), just gotta have some kind of fire behind it. So I'm going to hunt for it; for the time being, I'm with you on reverting me — but that may change. — Bill 21:42, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: you are right, there are a lot of legends surrounding Gerbert, and they are missing from the article, as it stands. For example, there is the story about the puppet he was supposed to have made, I think it could speak or something. Well, we can even make a separate section, Gerbert in legend or similar. I just don't think that's on a par with what he manifestly did and wrote. He certainly did import astronomical knowledge from islamic spain. He was far ahead of the knowledge of his times, and it is no wonder that people viewed him as a magician and astrologer. The question is, did the real, historical Gerbert draw horoscopes, or even observe the planets? If there is a chapter on planetary motion in his works, I will be more ready to view him as an astrologer, because the planets are irrelevant for purposes of the calendar. But just building an astrolabe, and maybe calculating eclipses, doesn't make him an astrologer. dab 06:58, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: I put Gerbert's writings on Wikisource, so you can see for yourself. I could not  find the names of the planets. The word horoscopum appears, but it refers to a part of the astrolabe, with which you measure the altitude of a star, and not to an (english meaning) horoscope. dab 07:34, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, all that's beginning to make sense alas, one more thing that may be biting the dust. Just like Mark Twain (was it?) says. Quite unable so far to find Gerbert/Sylvester on Wikisource though, neither among the authors nor by searching for "Gerbert", but will be looking for it: my Latin's pretty good. Yes, horoscopum frequently used for anything that sights the ascendant, much closer to the Greek. (Blast.) Best, Bill 10:59, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: um, I put a link to wikisource right in this article, under "external links" dab 16:16, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: Judith Tarr wrote a historical novel about Sylvester II, titled Ars Magica.  Should that get its own section? NotWillDecker  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.212.225.199 (talk) 20:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Different Interlocutor

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
Pope Silvester II → Pope Sylvester II — Authoritative name per Library of Congress authorities database —SteveMcCluskey 16:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.
*Support per Mr McCluskey, the Catholic Encyclopedia, and the fine folks at the Library of Congress. --SigPig |SEND - OVER 06:15, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Add any additional comments:
</small>
I was a bit surprised by the title of this article and checked the Library of Congress authorities file.  It gives the following:
HEADING:
*Sylvester II, Pope, ca. 945-1003  
Used For/See From: 
* Sylvester II, Pope, d. 1003  
* Gerbert, von Aurillac, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerberto, dell’Alvernia, ca. 945-1003  
* Alvernia, Gerberto dell’, ca. 945-1003  
* Aurillac, Gerbert von, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerbert, d’Aurillac, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerbert, von Reims, ca. 945-1003  
* Reims, Gerbert von, ca. 945-1003  
* Silvestro II, Pope, ca. 945-1003  
* Silvestre II, Pope, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerbert, d’Orlhac, ca. 945-1003  
* Orlhac, Gerbert d’, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerberto, d’Aurillac, ca. 945-1003  
* Aurillac, Gerberto d’, ca. 945-1003  
Found In: 
*Uhlirz, M. Untersuchungen über Inhalt und Datierung der Briefe Gerberts von Aurillac ... 1957. 
* New Cath. encycl., 1981 (Sylvester II, Pope, 999-1003; secular name Gerbert, b. Aurillac, France, ca. 945; d. 1003) 
* Bacchiega, M. Silvestro II ... 1981. 
* Silvestre II (Gerbert d’Orlhac), 1998. 
* Contardi, E. Gerberto d’Aurillac, Silvestro II, 1939.
Silvester (with an i) only appears in the Italian (Silvestro) and French (Silvestre) forms; it doesn't appear in the English, in which the preferred form is Sylvester. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SteveMcCluskey (talk • contribs) 16:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I forgot to sign SteveMcCluskey 16:28, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article has been renamed  as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 06:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You may also want to investigate Pope Sylvester I and Pope Sylvester III. --Stemonitis 06:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: :Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.
*Support per Mr McCluskey, the Catholic Encyclopedia, and the fine folks at the Library of Congress. --SigPig |SEND - OVER 06:15, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: :Add any additional comments:
</small>
I was a bit surprised by the title of this article and checked the Library of Congress authorities file.  It gives the following:
HEADING:
*Sylvester II, Pope, ca. 945-1003  
Used For/See From: 
* Sylvester II, Pope, d. 1003  
* Gerbert, von Aurillac, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerberto, dell’Alvernia, ca. 945-1003  
* Alvernia, Gerberto dell’, ca. 945-1003  
* Aurillac, Gerbert von, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerbert, d’Aurillac, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerbert, von Reims, ca. 945-1003  
* Reims, Gerbert von, ca. 945-1003  
* Silvestro II, Pope, ca. 945-1003  
* Silvestre II, Pope, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerbert, d’Orlhac, ca. 945-1003  
* Orlhac, Gerbert d’, ca. 945-1003  
* Gerberto, d’Aurillac, ca. 945-1003  
* Aurillac, Gerberto d’, ca. 945-1003  
Found In: 
*Uhlirz, M. Untersuchungen über Inhalt und Datierung der Briefe Gerberts von Aurillac ... 1957. 
* New Cath. encycl., 1981 (Sylvester II, Pope, 999-1003; secular name Gerbert, b. Aurillac, France, ca. 945; d. 1003) 
* Bacchiega, M. Silvestro II ... 1981. 
* Silvestre II (Gerbert d’Orlhac), 1998. 
* Contardi, E. Gerberto d’Aurillac, Silvestro II, 1939.
Silvester (with an i) only appears in the Italian (Silvestro) and French (Silvestre) forms; it doesn't appear in the English, in which the preferred form is Sylvester. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SteveMcCluskey (talk • contribs) 16:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I forgot to sign SteveMcCluskey 16:28, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div>
This article has been renamed  as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 06:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You may also want to investigate Pope Sylvester I and Pope Sylvester III. --Stemonitis 06:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: Hi there. Just a small sidenote; as far as I can gather, the future pope Sylvester II studied in Cordoba and Seville, then important cities within the Caliphate of Cordoba. The Caliphate of Cordoba was not Spain- in fact, Spain was not an entity in any form back in the Xth century-, and I think it would be worth correcting somehow, whether with an explanatory sentence or by changing the term. Cheers! ;) Dr Benway 14:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seville and Cordoba 

message: I've greatly expanded the works section, adding information on the Hindu-Arabic numerals, abacus, the numeral zero and the empty column for it in the abacus, the armillary sphere and sighting tube, as well as a citation for the hydraulic powered organ (noting that it used brass tubes). I've added a bunch of new sources and inline citations. The article is not yet well-rounded, but it's off to a better start than it was before with only 3 inline citations for the entire article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Works section

message: The church in which the pope supposedly celebrated mass is called Santa Croce in Gerusalemme, not St. Mary's.  
I doubt that Pope Sylvester I was actually a counselor to Constantine, but Gerbert may well have believed that he was.  
Guastafeste (talk) 11:51, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Church 

message: Nancy Marie Brown mentioned in a radio interview that about 70 years after his death, Gerbert's biography was described with some very colorful stories as an evil wizard.  It would be interesting to add more coverage of that in the article; I'm sure she has some details in her book. -- Beland (talk) 16:35, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wizard 

message: The manual of style is very clear at MOS:POPCULT that when judging whether to include something in a Popular Culture section "The consensus is very clear that a secondary source is required in almost all cases. A tertiary source is even better, if available. In the rare case that a primary source is judged to be sufficient, it should be properly cited. The source(s) cited should not only establish the verifiability of the pop culture reference, but also its significance."  That hasn't been done for A Discovery of Witches and it doesn't belong here. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 14:34, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture 

message: How could he possibly be Franch. France didn't even existe and he didn't even talk a French dialect !
--Lembeye (talk) 13:01, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: France certainly existed in his life-time and before. Str1977 (talk) 22:42, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  French ? 

message: Has any resolution been given to the early and mid 2000s discussions? This page doesn’t seem to have been very active. NGrahamMST (talk) 16:48, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Discussion 

message: — Assignment last updated by K8shep (talk) 16:00, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: History of Science

message: I'm going to add a bit more information to the abacus and numerals section of his scholarly work, as I've found some information regarding the specific symbols used in the abacus that I think is valuable. AMCWiki1591 (talk) 17:26, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abacus and numerals section 

message: I plan to add a little information about the importance and effects of the legends of pope Sylvester. I have found that they had great implicative and clarifying effects on the state of science.  Jachar520 (talk) 17:36, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legends Section