Talk:And you are lynching Negroes/Archive 1

message: First, it is in dire need of sources. We don't know how many times it was said, or which Soviet officials said it. (I couldn't find much besides Wikipedia mirrors and figurative uses.) Second, less importantly, it would be great to have a sound sample of the phrase in Russian. Deltabeignet 09:21, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, I've tried to find a specific example on google but to no avail. Could someone else have a look (searching for the english mostly brings up wikiclones). I've added the verify tag. - FrancisTyers 16:40, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the problem is that this is quite widespread, but more less an "oral tradition". It might be difficult to confirm this in English sources due to geopolitics and political correctness. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E|Chugoku Banzai! 22:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: UN meeting logs? Maybe we have those? Maybe they have this recorded in their meeting transcript? -- Миборовский U|T|C|E|Chugoku Banzai! 22:30, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You don't need English sources...non-English sources that a few different Wikipedians can verify should be enough. Isn't that right? Babajobu 22:32, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, the sources don't have to be in English (although it would be nice). The minutes of UN meetings where the term was used would be fantastic, I have no idea how to go about finding them though. I guess if the source is Russian government or (Soviet government) then they could be translated and put on Wikisource? - FrancisTyers 22:46, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Er, I'm sure someone would respond if we asked the official UN website... or maybe not. Try Wikisource/Wikitext, mayhap? -- Миборовский U|T|C|E|Chugoku Banzai! 04:17, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Try Wikisource and UN Documentation Centre. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E|Chugoku Banzai! 04:24, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article needs two things 

message: Ahem. In Soviet Russia, negroes lynch you!
I'm sorry. No disrespect intended. And I don't even visit the site, that's what makes it sad. JRM · Talk 20:06, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To come full circle 

message: Unless someone tells me why this shouldn't be at And are you lynching Negores?, with the question mark, I will move the article tommorrow.--Sean Black (talk) 23:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It shouldn't be there because you have not provided any positive reason why it should be there.  See also Burden of proof. Digwuren 09:34, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Your implication that only the addition of the question mark (like Are We Not Men We Are Devo!) would be changed seems a bit misleading, since you actually plan to change a stated accusation ("And you are lynching Negroes!") into a question ("And are you lynching Negroes?"). Also, be sure not to repeat the "Negores" typo if you move the page. You may also want to consider the fact that "And are you lynching Negroes?" currently gets 0 Google hits. -Silence 01:40, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, Sean, you weirdo, when did the Soviets ever make a question out of it? Babajobu 02:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: what's with the sentence "This state affairs continues to this day". This is utter nonsense and should be deleted.
Callivert 16:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  what rubbish 

message: What a bizarre talk page.  
The article is informative and interesting - assuming that the phrase is, indeed, "common in modern Russian, Polish and Serbian usage to refer pejoratively to this type of logical fallacy rhetorical device."  It appears, on its face, to be intended as a parody of official-speak, so people insisting on specific citations of that exact phrase from Soviet leaders is silly.  All that matters is whether or not the phrase is in fact commonly used with that parodic intent.  Whether it's important enough to include in an encyclopedia is another question.  (I'm glad it's here)
::It was a propaganda device, with 'propaganda' in its Soviet meaning.  Consequently, the main accusers were not politicians but journalists.  Unfortunately, old Russian newspapers are not yet very well represented on the Web. Digwuren 09:33, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What's up with this discussion?

message: The phrase is usually used as a "counter-argument", so probably a better translation would be "But you are ...". Although "a" in Russian can also mean "and", it usually stands for "but". Lebatsnok 09:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Valid point.  I'll rename the article accordingly. Digwuren 10:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The title was grammatically correct. New title has different flavor. Reverted, including changes in translation, which were even plian wrong in some places. `'Mїkka 18:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  AND/BUT 

message: This article is interesting and educational and well worth having, but it's written as if the US was just being castigated (unfairly) for lynching a few Negroes in the 60s. When there had been mass lynchings in earlier decades, and it was still, to a degree, going on at least until the outrage and conviction of the 1998 Texas dragging death. And the US is still treating Negroes outrageously - is it 1/10th of the entire black male population incarcerated at any one time, with over one half in the judicial process or under restrictions? The jeering of Russians, then and now, is pretty nearly justified. PalestineRemembered 12:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  US stopped lynching Negroes in 1998.