Talk:Ahnenerbe

message: I read the article because I was particularly interested in the activities of Ahnenerbe in Greece. While I found no mention of the country, I follow one of the links, which focused on what I was looking for. While there is an article on the subject, I discovered that the site which the link belongs is administered by people who support nationalistic organisations, which makes me doubt the credibility of the article.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.178.118 (talk) 14:01, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Ahnenerbe in Greece

message: Anyone else notice that most of the claims of medical experiments comes from an "independent" publisher and plagiarizes Soviet experiments described in Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.10.35.153 (talk) 05:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I remember seeing a 1 hour special on this on PBS. Also, here is a German encyclopedia about Nazi history: . So, this is real for sure. But I can not check all the details. Awolf002 00:10, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

text: Jacobeit, Wolfgang / Lixfeld, Hannsjost / Bockhorn, Olaf (Hg.): Völkische Wissenschaft. Gestalten und Tendenzen der deutschen und österreichischen Volkskunde in der ersten Hälfte des 20. Jahrhunderts. Wien/Köln/Weimar 1994.  
but they are not that much use to me as a) I haven't got them b) I have only a very basic knowledge of German. Are there any proficient German-speakers here with access to these books? -- The Anome 10:26, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Shouldn't there be some mention of Tibet and Seven Years in Tibet's Heinrich Harrer?
:Added a barebones bit about Tibet, in the new "expeditions" part...can't believe we didn't have anything before Sherurcij 13:13, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tibet 

message: Mainly restricted to Eastern Europe were the activities of the research council "Forschungs- und Lehrgemeinschaft Das Ahnenerbe", also subordinated to the SS. The academic members of the Ahnenerbe chiefly confiscated archaeological collections and specialist literature but also carried out excavations in occupied territories. Material of the Ahnenerbe can be found in record group NS21 "Ahnenerbe" in the Bundesarchiv Koblenz as well as in the record group Research Ahnenerbe in the Bundesarchiv Außenstelle Berlin-Zehlendorf. Sherurcij 06:33, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Random info for later use, if anybody can interpret

message: I was flicking through The sacred beetle, a collection of essays in science, and found one written by Samuel Goudsmit which mentions the Ahnernerbe. This essay is apparently taken from his book "Alsos", which was written after his time leading the post-war project to study German scientific research, and so is likely a pretty good secondary source. There's a 2005 reprint of this () - but it's £20, so a bit much for me to get on a whim. Anyone have access to a library copy? Shimgray | talk | 19:07, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Another useful book - "Master Plan: Himmler's Scholars and the Holocaust" (, Fourth Estate, 2006) is about the Ahnenerbe, mostly focusing on their role in the Holocaust. Shimgray | talk | 22:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Hrm, I think I've seen the other translation of the name more often, but I do like the "promote the science of ancient intellectual history" quote, does the book list a source for that wording? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 01:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Useful book? 

message: Today I finished The Master Plan and began working on redoing this article.  I went through the article in MS Word and designated everything according to whether it was true and well written, I didn't have information on it and will leave it as is, should be removed, or needs to be re-written for some reason.  In the near future I'm going to be going through the whole article and redoing what needs to be done. I'll post on here when I'm done.  Until then I'll periodically put what I have so far on here because of the formatting changes I have to make when I change it from MS-Word format to Wikipedia format.  Until then this article may look weird because it has old and new on it, but bear with me and we'll have a great article when I'm done, maybe even worth featuring. (note - I'm not signed in on this computer, it's not my personal one, but I'm user: Foxhunt_King)
:I really appreciate all the new information you've provided, I may minorly tweak some sentence structure and such over the coming week, but overall I really like the new addition. I don't suppose The Master Plan has any illustrations or photographs we might be able to use? It's unfortunate that so many parts of this article are unillustrated. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 22:48, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The book has two sections of pictures in it - I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to stuff like copyright issues, but after I get done with the writing for this article I might look into it.  Furthermore, I finally got my laptop back (although I hate Gateway now) so I'll have my laptop here to work on the article from the comfort of my own home.  I have a few more topics I want to add and have a few pre-existing topics marked for revision, so I'll probably be working at this for another week or so.  Note: I have this article saved as a text file in Microsoft Word which I copy and paste from to post on here, so if any changes are made to this article before I'm finished remodelling it, I may accidentally erase them if I have to copy a section from my Word document to here, so make sure anything that gets changed doesn't get changed again. Also note: I'm not very good with picture placement on here, so after I'm done if someone who knows how wants to move the pictures around to make it look better, go for it. JW 09:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you check the back of the book (or immediately underneath the photograph), it should list the copyright holders for each photograph - in most/many/some cases that's fine. Just make sure to include the details of who/where the book got each photograph from :) Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 22:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A much needed remodelling 

message: I've had that world ice theory section on my mind for awhile, so here's what I've got about the topic to say: 1)there already is another wikipage on it, 2)the part on here is only three sentences long, and 3)the section on here doesn't cite a source and I googled hans scultetus and found four webpages talking about him and the ahnenerbe department he supposedly headed - two of those got their information straight from wikipedia, one didn't seem very credible, and the fourth simply cited a book at the end of the page (The Occult Roots of Nazism).  Therefore I plan on taking this section out unless someone gives me a reason not to before I'm done with my rewrite of this article.  If for no other reason, as far as I know wikipolicy is that if something does not cite a reference it is fair game for being deleted.
*Today I inserted the Bolivia section of the article, and in it I made sure to talk about the Welteislehre, so, I got rid of the section in the article now.  I don't even think it's a big deal, especially since there are probably only two of us who look at this discussion page nowadays, but I thought I'd post it on here. JW 02:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  World Ice Theory (Welteislehre) 

message: Through Baghdad the team went north to Assur where they met Sheikh Adjil el Yawar, a leader of the Shammar Bedouin tribe, and commander of the northern Camel Corps. , which camel corps is that? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 01:38, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Q

message: *The IP address 128.255.18.XXX is me when I'm using an engineering computer, so any changes made by it are comming from me.
*I removed the Ukraine section because it has nothing to do with the Ahnenerbe and doesn't mention anything about the organization in it, nor does it give any information that is relative anywhere else in the article.
*The "involvement of german soldiers" title is misleading and since it happened in 2002 it can easily be put under the post-ww2 section to better organize the article.
*I've fiished all my expedition and planned expetion entries, but I'm still going to add to other parts of the article: I'm going to revise the medical experiments section with a lot of new information as well as augment the information on the trials of members of the Ahnenerbe.  I'm not 100% sure I'll keep this format, but I'll do a few more people and see how it looks.  I'm also going to add to the "other ahnenerbe activities" section with entries on the Thor's hammer project (when himmler wanted to make a super weapon), the skeleton collection of Hirt and Beger, and put information back in about the relocation of the ahnenerbe headquarters near the end of the war.
*Sherurcij - in general I like your tweaking - I write a lot when I have something to say and in general I think you do a good job of condensing it without changing the information it conveys.  Some stuff I have personal issues with, but when the article is finished being produced we can polish it.JW 07:53, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update 

message: I've just removed the part on Wiligut temporarily, while trying to decide how to structure the article, in terms of leadership changes and such. 
An Austrian colonel in World War I, Wiligut was a mystic who believed he was a descendant of Thor, a god in Norse mythology, calling himself Weisthor (English: Wise Thor).  In 1933 Wiligut had helped pick out Wewelsburg castle as a “Nordic academy, a cross between a monastic retreat and a finishing school” for senior SS officials.  Himmler leased the castle in November 1933 before proceeding to renovate it, putting in mystic designs, rooms dedicated to the ancestors and excavating the surrounding area for artifacts.  
For his help in the project, Himmler gave Wiligut an office in RuSHA and promoted him to SS-Standartenführer and later to SS-Brigadeführer.  Wiligut would continue his service for Himmler until it was revealed he had been in a psychiatric hospital, at which time it was decided to give him an early retirement.
*I have some stuff on a demo team being sent to scuttle Wewelsburg castle if you can find a place for it - I looked and didn't find a place appropriate to put it in so I didn't, but if you do let me know. -FOX
::The Wewelsberg article at least, should be updated with it :) Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead)  22:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Note to self

message: Today I added more on Rascher (why I originally devoted a whole section to him) and talked about the HQ relocation as well as some other stuff.  The only thing I have left on my list of things to do is finish the trials section and write any section summaries that are needed - then I'll be DONE! :)  -FOX 21:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  So close! 

message: Yesterday I changed the intro and got rid of the useless short section summaries that were there.  That means I'm all done with the text! I have some scanned pictures I'm going to see about getting on wikipedia for this article, but I've never messed with putting pictures on here before. JW 15:28, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Done! (with text) 

message: *Image:Beger_at_trial_1970.JPG  - ullstein-dpa (85)
*Image:Wolfram_Sievers_Doctors_Trial.JPG   - USHMM, courtesy of Hedwig Wachenheimer Epstein
*Image:Franz_Altheim_with_Trautmann.JPG  - Frobenius-Institut
*Image:Yrjo_no_caption.JPG  - Juhani Grönhagen
*Image:Gateway_to_the_sun.jpg  - Courtesy of Javier Nuñez de Arco
*Image:Himmler_inspecting_cotton.jpg  - USHMM, courtesy of James Blevins
Other than taking care of this though, I'm done!  :) JW 16:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I touched them all up, except the Gateway to the Sun image. Because the photographer is still alive today, we could conceivably be infringing on his ability to sell that photograph. (Pringle likely paid him royalties for its rights) - so I've replaced the image with a Public Domain image of the same structure already on WP :) Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead)  01:37, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The images I've uploaded - the reference in the book.

message: We claim that Beger was sentenced to 3 years imprisonment in April 1971, and that in 1974 it was appealed and moved to 3 years probation - wouldn't his sentence have already been completed at that time? Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead)  21:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Questions

message: The one issue this artile faces is its size, there's sipmly too much information hbeing thrown at the reader, it extends past 32k and even just scrolling down - one can see that its length is a factor working against it. We're therefore trying to keep all writing as compact as possible, and where possible, move information on say, Bruno Kress' marriage to his personal article, rather than in here.  The former name of Iraq, similarly, belongs in the "History of Iraq" article, not in an article dealing with Nazi scientists.  It's just a matter of squeezing everything together as much as we can. Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead)  16:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: DragonRouge, et al

message: I agree that this article needs to be condensed - when I write I elaborate and write in book style, which works against me on Wikipedia when I write a lot of information. Plus I'm one of those people that can't go back and tamper with their work, I'd rather rewrite something than make lots of tiny adjustments - so please people, feel free to do my dirty work for me lol.JW 05:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I agree 

message: In the article, it is claimed that "The Ahnenerbe took great interest in the 900-year-old Bayeux Tapestry ... since it contained images of the Germanic Franks solidly defeating their enemies." Is there a reference for this? I ask only because the Bayeux Tapestry depicts the Norman Invasion of England, in which the "Germanic" Normans defeated the equally "Germanic" Anglo-Saxons!--Oboroten 04:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The nazis weren't too fussy about historical claims being correct; they just needed to sound right when presented in a highly selective context. 82.176.196.155 13:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bayeux Tapestry 

message: * —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sherurcij (talk • contribs) 05:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sites in other languages that might hold useful information

message: The BBC documentary claims a 1939 expedition went to Peru in search of 'Tertiary'(sp?) people, who populated the world in an earlier age...any other references for this? Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead)  06:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Which "BBC documentary"? Nick Cooper 23:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ahnenerbe

message: The correct translation of "Forschungs- und Lehrgemeinschaft das Ahnenerbe e.V." is "Research and Teaching Community The Ancestral Heritage (registered association)" not "of". The german translation of "Research and Teaching Community of Ancestral Heritage" would be  "Forschungs- und Lehrgemeinschaft des Ahnenerbes" or "Forschungs- und Lehrgemeinschaft vom Ahnenerbe".
"Forschungs- und Lehrgemeinschaft das Ahnenerbe e.V." sounds a little bit unusual even in german but it's no genitiv. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.133.55.72 (talk) 22:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see here. This source is more reliable than the German Wikipedia. I have changed the article once more. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.133.30.78 (talk) 16:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My German, the little I had, has mostly wasted away. But. In the current May 24, 2024 "Formation" section there's this:" "Deutsches Ahnenerbe Studiengesellschaft für Geistesurgeschichte" (Society for the Study of the History of Primeval Ideas)". I know without doubt that this is incorrect. The terms are mostly unfamiliar to me, so whether the English is a fair translation overall, I hesitate to say. What I DO KNOW FOR SURE is that "Deutsches" translates to "German" and no where do I see that in the supposed translation! I'm much less sure, but I also doubt "Primeval" is the best translation of ...urgeschichte - I suggest Prehistoric as a better term. (I'd translate it as German Society for the Study of the Inheritance of Prehistorical Concepts, but as I mentioned, my German isn't good enough for me to have sufficient confidence in this to do more than suggest it. (as opposed to the (missing!) German (or Germanic?) term.))98.21.68.176 (talk) 12:06, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You should not mix "Deutsches Ahnenerbe" (German Ancestors' Heritage), which was its short name, into the stuff behind it, which elucidates what is was supposed to be and which seems to have changed over time. Better: . The translation  just omits the "Deutsches Ahnenerbe" part. --Hob Gadling (talk) 04:51, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: While important information to preserve on WP, is it clearly tied to the Ahnenerbe? Perhaps it should just have its own page? Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead)  22:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Master Plan East

message: This link focuses on the religious and political activity within the SS-Ahnenerbe. Especially the religious issues are not mentioned at all in the existing article.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.133.45.168 (talk) 16:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious activity within the Ahnenerbe 

message: The actual introduction is partly wrong
* no correct translation;
* the society was not found as "Research and Teaching Community the Ancestral Heritage" but as "Study Society for Intellectual Primordial History".
Here is a suggestion for a better introduction:
Founded by Heinrich Himmler, Hermann Wirth, and Walter Darré on July 1 1935 as Studiengesellschaft für Geistesurgeschichte ‚Deutsches Ahnenerbe´ e.V. (Study Society for Intellectual Primordial History [registered association]), 1937 renamed in Forschungs- und Lehrgemeinschaft das Ahnenerbe e.V. ("Research and Teaching Community the Ancestral Heritage [registered association]"), was a Nazi-era government study group which tried to proof the existence of a - since milleniums existing - germanic religion.
See German Historic Museum: LeMO —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.133.30.78 (talk) 22:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  False introduction  

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Nazi-robot.jpg

message: "When Britain occupied neutral Iceland it not only broke international law..."? Is this really noteworthy, especially a year into the Second World War? After all, it was the Germans what started it. 86.144.197.42 22:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV: Invasion of Iceland

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Nazi-robot.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:WirthBookScan.jpg

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:August Hirt.jpg

message: I have assembled a list of the Ahnenerbe's Institutes here but I feel it is far too long to insert in the article. Should I instead make a new article entitled List of Ahnenerbe institutes? Salmanazar (talk) 17:12, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Ahnenerbe Institutes 

message: The link for 'Queste' under 'Sacred Places' leads to a novel, so I suppose the redirect is wrong. The novel has no disambiguation link.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.41.148.141 (talk) 20:23, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Queste 

message: Bayeux tapestrys were cloths that royal people used to put on their beds and wall to make them look pretty  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.86.56.125 (talk) 19:50, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  what are Bayeux tapestrys 

message: I propose that the German expedition to Antarctica should be removed from the list of Ahnenerbe expeditions. The Ahnenerbe was in no way connected with that expedition, whose sole purpose was to find an area suitable for a whaling station. I know that the German's claim to that area of Antarctica is the basis for many conspiracy theories concerning the Ahnenerbe and supposed Nazi UFOs, but, as with most conspiracy theories, there is no evidence at all to support any of these claims. After the expedition, the Germans lost interest in any development of a whaling station there and made no attempts to claim it as a formal territory.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by EbolaRocks08 (talk • contribs) 05:39, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Swabia 

message: What does "purposed to research the archaeological and cultural history of the Aryan race" mean? Created for the "purpose of researching the archaeological and cultural history of the Aryan race', perhaps?Royalcourtier (talk) 07:35, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Purposed? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Many "ancient alien" enthusiasts have been claiming for about a year now that the Ahnenerbe discovered skulls of extraterrestrial origin in Adygea. However, there seems to be no hard evidence and serious paleontologists believe it's either a deliberate hoax, or else the skulls became deformed under the pressure of being buried so long. Few mainstream sources have discussed it, either (it's mostly just tabloids reporting neutrally, and conspiracy sites actively promoting the idea of the skulls being alien). I do think it'd be good if we could find a RS, though. The theory has attracted enough believers that it'd be worth addressing the claims here. FiredanceThroughTheNight (talk) 05:23, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alleged alien skulls 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the 1930s, a zoologist used funds from the Nazi regime to travel through the Brazilian Amazon. The expedition inspired a movie, a book and left behind a massive cross with a swastika in the jungle. https://www.dw.com/en/how-the-amazon-became-popular-in-the-third-reich/a-52835851  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:B00:4776:61FA:88DB:D0B5:F3DC (talk) 09:23, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "How the Amazon became popular in the Third Reich" 

message: Is "think tank" really the best description of the Ahnenerbe? To my mind, a think tank is a semi-academic organization that makes recommendations about government policy. The Ahnenerbe didn't do that, it was a scholarly organization dedicated to the study and promotion of Nazi pseudo-science, especially pseudo-archaeology and racialism. Do reliable sources describe it as a think tank?  what do you think?--Ermenrich (talk) 12:32, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: To my knowledge, no scholar considers the Ahnenerbe a "think tank" and I've not encountered anyone who ever rendered it as such in the many works I've read on this matter. In a literal sense, the nouns "Ahnen" (forebearers/ancestors) and "Erbe" combine very accurately to ancestral inheritance as the definition, as you well know (being likewise fluent in both English and German). Under the listing for Ahnenerbe on p. 13 of the well-respected Encyclopedia of the Third Reich, edited by Christian Zentner and Friedemann Bedürftig, it says See: Ancestral Inheritance. Just as you've described, historian Gretchen E. Schafft, characterized the Ahnenerbe as "an organization within the SS representing the German Ancestral Heritage Society...dedicated to proving racial hypotheses." (p. 93 in From Racism to Genocide: Anthropology in the Third Reich. Urbana and Chicago: University of Illinois Press, 2004.)  Nobody delineates an organization dedicated to ethnography and the pseudoscience of racial eugenics during the Nazi era as a "think tank". Your explanation and definition  was/is 100 percent correct.--Obenritter (talk) 21:07, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Think tank"