Talk:Papal infallibility

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Theological definition (Catholicism) and has thus listed it at redirects for discussion. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 24#Theological definition (Catholicism) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Veverve (talk) 16:32, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Theological definition (Catholicism)" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Theological Definitions and has thus listed it at redirects for discussion. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 24#Theological Definitions until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Veverve (talk) 16:32, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Theological Definitions" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Definitions, Theological and has thus listed it at redirects for discussion. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 24#Definitions, Theological until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Veverve (talk) 16:32, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Definitions, Theological" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Dogmatically defined and has thus listed it at redirects for discussion. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 24#Dogmatically defined until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Veverve (talk) 16:32, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Dogmatically defined" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: I quote the article:
"A 1998 commentary on Ad Tuendam Fidem issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith published on L'Osservatore Romano in July 1998 listed a number of instances of infallible pronouncements by popes and by ecumenical councils, but explicitly stated (at no. 11) that this was not meant to be a complete list. The list included as ex cathedra pronouncements Ineffabilis Deus, Munificentissimus Deus, and Benedictus Deus.[67]"
This is not totally true. The commentary presents mariological dogmas (ineffabilis deus and munificentissimus deus) and beatific vision after death (benedictus deus) as exemple of truth of the "first comma", i.e. revealed magisterium. The revealed magisterium is made up of the proposition that are affirmed as "revealed by God" by the Pope ex cathedra, the universal ordinary magisterium, or a council. The commentary doesn't say if these are dogmas by virtue of a ex cathedra declaration or universal magisterium of a council.
Moreover, there are many instances of infallible affirmations by the pope that are not ex cathedra but just ordinary magisterium, i.e. every single time that the pope re-state a dogma, or teaches something that is already teached universally (even if he doesn't know it and doesn't say that it is a dogma), or he explicit a "secondary object of infallibility", i.e. something that is entailed or presupposed by an explicit dogma.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.18.63.38 (talk) 17:22, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "first comma" and "ex cathedra" 

message: An important historical context was the secular setback of losing a large section of the Papal States a decade earlier. That was an important source of revenue for the Vatican. One can speculate that declaring papal infallibility in 1869-70 was in part a response to this loss. Oxfreudian (talk) 14:08, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loss of Papal States