Talk:Tyre

message: This disambiguation page was moved here from Tyre (disambiguation) to help disambiguate [Tyre, Lebanon] and [tire|tyre] / [tire]. This is important primarily because of regional differences in the spelling of tyre/tire. In order that English readers from countries like UK can easily find this common word [tire|tyre], please refrain from the use of regional (in particular U.S. and Canadian) English in this disambiguation page.
In order to help this, I have changed the wording to be more clear for me, as a native British speaker, and the current wording avoids getting into regional spelling of words like (spelled vs spelt). Widefox 13:21, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The page is under "tire."  The disambiguation page should link to "tire."  And this is, by the way, one word in which the UK is the exception rather than the rule (unlike "color," "honor," etc.).  There is no "non-regional" English, really.  Twin Bird (talk) 19:47, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not requirement of WP:MOSDAB. Where the link appears in the initial position, it should correspond with the term being disambiguated and redirects are acceptable for that purpose. Also, an entry should contain only only blue link per line. older ≠ wiser 20:04, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  tyre (wheel) important to use non (US) regional English 

message: Replaced spelt to say spelled. See no reason to use 'spelt' when spelled is a perfectly good alternative for all English writers. --81.149.165.235 (talk) 19:37, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelt -> Spelled 

message: This article refers only to pneumatic tyres.  Since tyre is a middle English word for the riding surface of a wheel, would it be better to include waggon wheel tyres - binding metal strips? B0bGeezer (talk) 10:54, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pneumatic Tyre 

message: My edit was reverted.  So lets discuss it.  Did my edit summary not explain it properly?  Dictionaries call it the "chiefly British" spelling not the "international spelling".  What would "international" be defined as?  England and some former colonies of England?  In both America and Canada its spelled "tire".  Dream Focus 14:19, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite. You should be more specific when talking about what "dictionaries call it", and you should really look at some dictionaries published outside the US. There is no single Webster's Dictionary, but all of them that go by that name are primarily US-oriented dictionaries, since Noah Webster was a US dictionary writer. Webster's is certainly not used "in schools everywhere" – probably no schools outside North America would use a Webster's dictionary. The Concise Oxford English Dictionary is the authority recognized by the United Nations for international spellings – specifically, the 12th edition published in 2011, which I happen to have handy. It list "tyre" as generally preferred, and "tire" as the US-specific variant. Grammarist.com says that "Tyre is preferred in most varieties of English outside North America", and in particular notes that "tyre" is used in Australia (although "tire" is generally used in Canada). The Collins Concise English Dictionary and the Collins English Dictionary – Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition, which are published by the US-based publisher HarperCollins, identify tyre as generally preferred, with "tire" as the US-specific variant. You probably can't find a good dictionary published by a non-U.S. publisher that says "tyre" is only "chiefly British". If you're looking for the international spelling, I think it's "tyre". Of course, that's also the British spelling. It may not really be necessary to note that "tyre" is the international spelling, but it is. —BarrelProof (talk) 16:40, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: "international" is defined is of or related to two or more nations.  So you can't call it the "international spelling".  America and Canada use "tire", so "international" could include those two nations.  You can call it "British English", that something recognized, just as American English is.  Dream Focus 17:02, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

text: That would be me. My reference was the Oxford Dictionary of English which is an international dictionary compiled by some 70 editors from all over the English speaking world (including a US team) and drawing on a database of IIRC 2 million words and usages. They recognize that the simplistic division of English into American and British English is out of date and identify around a dozen main regional variants of English of which US and British are only two. They also identify as "international" those words that are used by most if not all regions. The entries for tyre/tire show no regional attribution for "tyre" i.e. it's international, but that "tire" is US English. That's my source. And in this field, international dictionaries should carry more weight than regional ones.Bermicourt (talk) 17:44, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Its called the Oxford spelling not the "international spelling".  Dream Focus 17:52, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That may depend on who's doing the calling. Note the long list of international organizations that use Oxford spelling, as listed on the Oxford spelling page. (Referring to "Oxford spelling" is a bit oversimplified, of course, since the Oxford University Press publishes several different dictionaries that don't all provide the same spelling guidance, and some of them describe several different spellings within a single dictionary.) —BarrelProof (talk) 19:21, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

text: This is a disambiguation page. Surely we don't need this level of detail here? Such usage can be described within the tire article itself. -- Dr Greg  talk  18:47, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Good edit.  As long as it doesn't say "international spelling" I'm fine with it.  Dream Focus 21:31, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

text: That's only what the UN web site search page says – it's not their actual official editorial guidance. The actual UN writing guidelines are found in their Editorial Manual, which includes a section on spelling. The Editorial Manual does not say that the UN standard is UK English. The UN references the Concise Oxford English Dictionary (12th Ed., 2011) for the spelling of most words. That dictionary is not just a guideline for British usage. The dictionary provides guidance both about general (i.e. international) usage and local variants. For variants that are specifically British, they note that. The "tyre" entry is not identified as British-specific, although it is true that it is the spelling used in British English. —BarrelProof (talk) 19:06, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: @Dream Focus. Don't confuse the Oxford Dictionary of English (the one I referred to) with the Oxford English Dictionary. They're not the same. Bermicourt (talk) 19:25, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

text: I think the current wording is neutral and avoids getting into detail not appropriate for a dab page. Bermicourt (talk) 11:53, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. If people want further information, they can go read the linked article. This is just a dab page. —BarrelProof (talk) 16:22, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referring to the "tyre" spelling as "chiefly British" versus "international" 

message: See also #tyre_(wheel)_important_to_use_non_(US)_regional_English. Redirects are allowed in WP:MOSDAB, this one satisfies both requirements for allowing a redirect in WP:DABREDIR (although MOSDAB is somewhat unclear by discussing piping and redirects together although their exceptions are very different). There's some discussion about loosening the wording for redirects Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Disambiguation_pages#Remove_most_of_the_guidance_against_using_redirects. This is controvercial but I believe the current wording can mislead given the competing factors. WP:NOTBROKEN applies - iff it satisfies those two requirements, and is not an acronym (although a primary topic redirect acronym is always used).
Practically:
*readers are looking for "tyre" not "tire"
**they may not even know it is spelt "tire" in other English variants
***we may assume the COMMONNAME for the wheel article is "tyre" for these readers
**it is not helpful for readers looking for "tyre" to be presented with a link to "tire", when we have a link to "tyre"
***We know they did not look for "tire", so it is somewhat irrelevant to attempt to inform / change / correct spelling variants
So, there's no practical reason to include "tire" on this dab, and no reason to not use the ambiguous term for linking, but lots of reasons not to. Widefox; talk 00:48, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the ambiguous term for linking is preferred