Talk:List of Spanish monarchs

message: This article had several instances of Spanish-centered POV! The Iberian peninsula or Hispania, covers not only the modern country of Spain, but Portugal also (and Andorra; and Gibraltar!).  The word "Spain" in modern English (and its counterparts in other languages) means the country of Spain, not all of the Iberian peninsula (as the respective articles show). The fact is that Castillian expansionism over the centuries (ask not only the Portuguese, but also the Galicians, the Basques or the Catalans...) tried to monopolize the definition of Iberia in a way that satisfied its imperial interests. In fact, even if Spain was used in ancient times to refer to the whole of Iberia, today it is not. In this sense, given that the Kingdom of Spain only emerges with the union of Castille and Aragon in 1492 (and this is disputed since Navarre was only incoporated in 1512), one can almost say that there was never a Spain before that! It was Iberia that was conquered by the Romans, who called it Hispania. The country of Spain didn't exist then. It was Hispania that was conquered by Suevi, Vandals, Alans and Visigoths. The country of Spain didn't exist then. It was Visigothic Hispania that was conquered by the Moors. The country of Spain didn't exist then. The Moorish conquest was of Iberia or Hispania (that should not be confused with Spain, even if the term Hispanic is used to denote Spanish speaking peoples). This conquest and subsequent occupation led to a Christian reaction know as the Reconquista from which several Christian kingdoms emerged (such as Asturias, León, Castille, Portugal, Navarre, etc.). Over time Castille came to dominate most of Iberia (but not Portugal, except for a small period between 1580 and 1640) and the use of the castillian word "España" (which is the castillian version of latin Hispania) started as a political strategy to curb autonomy or independence from centralist Madrid (for the same reason Castillian language started to be known as Spanish, implying the irrelevance of other Iberian languages - this was still a problem in the Spain of the 20th century, with the active repression of languages other than Castillian). Furthermore, if you call Spain to the Iberian peninsula, this not only is simply not true, but is felt as profoundly offensive at least by the Portuguese. For all these reasons and more, this article should not emply that Spain is Iberia and that there was an exclusive direct descent from some of the monarchs of ancient times to those of modern Spain. The Ogre 19:05, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Really nice job on your edit on this. It's nice to see someone with this level of issue with the POV of an article simply come in and fix the issue without tearing our large quantities of useful information, or inserting POV in the opposite direction, etc.  I corrected a couple of very minor English-language issues, but great work! -- Jmabel | Talk 06:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Jmabel! The Ogre 16:15, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Perhaps it ought to be noted that Philip IV didn't give up his claim to the Portuguese throne until some decades after the revolt.  I'd add that, prior to 1516, and perhaps prior to 1640/1662, "Spain" can be considered to mean "the Iberian Peninsula".  It is only with the definitive independence of Portugal that "Spain" can be said to mean "the Iberian Peninsula, except Portugal." john k 06:40, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello John Kenney. I've added that the Habsburgs only recognized the separation of Portugal under the Braganzas in 1668. As to the fact that, before 1640, the name "Spain" meant all of Iberia, I think that is clear by the sentence "and thenceforth the name of Spain does not refer to the whole of the Iberian peninsula (ancient Hispania), but only to one of its constituent countries." Mind you that in most Iberian languages, namely Portuguese and Castillian, "Spain", when refering to the whole of the peninsula, was frequently worded in the plural - they spoke of the "Spains" (As Espanhas or Las Españas) - which has quite different connotations... The Ogre 16:13, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Spain]] is not [[Iberian peninsula|Iberia]] or [[Hispania]]!

message: KuatofKDY had deleted the link to the Suebi Kings of Gallaecia, arguing "Wrong kingdom listed. No list available yet for Gallician kings". This is a mistake. If one follows the link one can see the list. However the list is not of Galician Kings, but of the Suebi Kings of Gallaecia. Gallaecia, not Galicia. There where no Kings of Galicia, except for Garcia II of Galicia and Portugal during a period of very few years (see Kingdom of Galicia and Portugal), even if sometimes Galicia was refered to as a Kingdoom. The fact was that Galicia was generally ruled by a Count. For these reasons I have reverted to Jmabel version, that includes the afore mentioned link. The Ogre 15:51, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Suevi#Suebi Kings of Gallaecia|Suebi Kings of Gallaecia]]

message: I finished adding the infobox in all Spanish Monarchs' articles with two exceptions: Amadeo I's and Juan Carlos I's. I couldn't find the necessary genealogical information for their mothers, so I decided to do a bit more of research instead of adding a incomplete infobox.--Cosmos666 15:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancestors' Infobox 

message: Charles IV is listed here as having had a 1-month restoration that goes unmentioned in our article Charles IV of Spain. If it is accurate, it should be mentioned in his biographical article; if not, it should be removed from here. Does anyone have a citable source? - Jmabel | Talk 00:31, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles IV again 

message: From the article" "The Spanish monarchs traditionally sign Yo El Rey (I the King), or Yo El Reyna (I the Queen)." Surely not. I believe that the only person who would be El Reyna is Freddie Mercury. Given the one obvious mistake, is any of this correct? Does anyone have a citation? Or am I (not a native Spanish speaker) completely confused? - Jmabel | Talk 00:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  El Reyna 

message: :Image:Alfonso XIII of Spain.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Alfonso XIII of Spain.jpg I

message: :Image:Alfonso XIII of Spain.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 06:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Alfonso XIII of Spain.jpg II

message: This page should probably include a brief explanation of why some of the ordinals don't start at I -- i.e. what happend to Philip I, Isabella I, Ferdinand I-V, and Alfonso I-XI.  I know that some of the predecessor state kings are counted in the sequence, but I'm not sure which ones (Castille and Leon, I think, and the Asturias, maybe?); we could perhaps also remark on the origin of this convention, if anyone knows it. --Jfruh (talk) 04:38, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, Phillip I was king consort of Castille. The rest were kings (and queen) proper of Castille. 74.68.129.111 (talk) 23:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ordinal numbers 

message: As Spain has been both a Kingdom and a Republic, I suggested to merge this article into List of heads of state of Spain. I believe that having two articles is probably not redundant, but unnecessary. I will be glad to hear other opinions. --MauritiusXXVII   (Aut Doce, Aut Disce, Aut Discede!) 18:40, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that the best option is in the Spanish wikipedia, the List of heads of state of Spain is divided between the List of Spanish monarchs and the List of heads of state of Spain who were not monarchs. This way, the heads of state of Spain would became a disambiguation page. Trasamundo (talk) 22:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Oppose. Monarchy is recognised as a separate topic throughout Wikipedia, and this list needs to exist for categorisation purposes. Postlebury (talk) 12:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The page will continue to exist after the merger, the users clicking on the link in category lists will simply be redirected to the new page. So this is not an obstacle. Zhmr (talk) 19:56, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

text: The articles overlap, as List of heads of state of Spain includes all the monarchs. Even the Spanish wikipedia does not have separate articles. There has been no opposition since I've put the merger tag so I am going to proceed with the merger. Zhmr (talk) 19:58, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The monarchy in Spain is one thing and the heads of state are another thing. Two related things, but two things. I understand a list of kings and other heads of state list, but leave one and remove the other does not seem right.  And the Spanish wikipedia does have separate articles (one for the kings and other for the chiefs of State without crown). --EeuHP (talk) 12:17, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but the article we have here on English WP, List of heads of state of Spain, includes all the monarchs, it does not list only "the chiefs of State without crown". So it is not a case of "two related things", on equal "level", but a case of one article containing everything that is in the smaller one, which is like a sub-level. Spain is still a Monarchy and there are very few heads of state in the list that were not monarchs. This list is almost a duplicate. Zhmr (talk) 12:26, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In the article of the Heads of State in es.wiki, regents are included (regents during the minority of the kings or regents during the absence of the kings)--EeuHP (talk) 13:40, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: So? They are not here. Zhmr (talk) 14:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean they could be added to the article. There would be two lists: one for kings and other for heads of state non-kings (presidents, regents, dictators...).--EeuHP (talk) 14:16, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It is simple really. This article is a duplicate of 90% of the List of heads of state of Spain. All the content from here belongs there. If this article didn't already exist, would you really take time to create it? To me it seems the sentiment behind keeping it is a sort of... "inertia". If there is no reason to merge these two articles, we can renounce merging altogether. Zhmr (talk) 14:25, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think (as most of the heads of state are kings) monarchs list should be maintained and modified the other, but is a hard task. Other option is say List of monarchs and head of State of Spain, for example.--EeuHP (talk) 14:41, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

text: Support merge as proposed. Littledogboy (talk) 22:34, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal

message: She was "queen in name" for a while, and thus actual head of state under her mother's regency. Had her brother been her sister or stillborn, she would have kept her title and position.74.68.129.111 (talk) 23:41, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Maria de la Mercedes

message: I don't care for the title field here.  It gives titles that aren't actually correct.  Philip II, say, was never called "King of Spain."  What's the point of a title field if it doesn't even give the right titles? john k (talk) 15:05, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title field 

message: Please folks. Juan Carlos' reign ends on June 19. Check the BBC, where it's shown that the King has signed the abdication, but mentions his reign is now in its final hours. GoodDay (talk) 20:26, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: One thing is when will Felipe become King, which will be at 00:00, 19 June 2014 (CET). And way another thing is the time of Juan Carlos' abdication, which became formal at 18:15, 18 June (CET) after the signing of the abdication law, which is now irrevocable and can't be undone. Impru20 (talk) 20:44, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The throne hasn't become vacant, not even for a few hours. Succession is automatic & the abdication hasn't taken effect 'yet'. GoodDay (talk) 20:55, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juan Carlos' reign 

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thread_title:  External links modified I 

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thread_title:  External links modified II 

message: 1a. The article on Spain says "In 1469, the crowns of the Christian kingdoms of Castile and Aragon were united by the marriage of Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon". I added this sentence to the article because it's quite relevant.
1b. Why does the House of Trastámara only start in 1479?
2a. The summary for the House of Trastámara (1479–1555) should at a minimum mention the Reconquista and the voyage of Columbus which are two major historical events.
2b. I think the House of Trastámara (1479–1555) section should be modified to show a separate list for the Crowns of Castilla and Aragón, even if they fell on multiple monarchs at the same time. This is similar to the Crowns of Scotland and England between 1603 and 1707. They were still separate entities. I spent time trying to understand who was on the Castilian and who were the Aragonese leaders. I find it hard to read this section.
3. Does Joanna need the regnal number? I do not see any other Joanna in the article.
4. The placement of Philip I in the House of Trastámara is inconvenient since he was an Habsburg. How do we go about that?
5. The summary for the House of Habsburg (1516–1700) should mention the 1580-1640 Iberian Union with the Crown of Portugal under Philip II, III and IV.
6. "Constitutional King of Spain" is not a complete sentence. If that was the new title then state so for clarity.
7. I would be useful to briefly add why Amadeo I and Alfonso XIII abdicated.
8. The section called "Kingdom of Spain (1975–present)" should be replaced by "House of Bourbon (1975–present)" for consistency with every other section. It's understood this is about the kings and queens of Spain.
ICE77 (talk) 08:50, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments and questions