Talk:Pelagius of Córdoba

message: This article has been tagged as POV due to the repeated and unsupported deletions of documentation of the attempted pederastic seduction of Pelagius by the Caliph. Haiduc 01:56, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone else's research is exactly what Wikipedia is supposed to contain. Not original research. deisenbe (talk) 13:15, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not mind material from the Catholic encyclopaedia being included, but you well know we cannot privilege one source over another. But let's go ahead and present that point of view first, and then we'll detail the academic view. No problem there. Haiduc 17:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV - unsupported deletion of historically documented sexual material from article 

message: Pederasty is of the essence of this story, what argument is there for obhscuring it? Haiduc 00:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone else's research is exactly what Wikipedia is supposed to contain. Not original research. deisenbe (talk) 13:15, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pederasty  

message: Such as, "There is the story of the ninth-century martyr Pelagius, a boy whose beauty so aroused 'Abd-al-Rahman III, the caliph of Cordoba, that he wished to enjoy its delights. The boy's refusal led to torture and death. Within decades of the boy's martyrdom narratives circulated and he began to be honored as a saint, whose cult included a Mozarabic text for Vespers, Matins, and Mass. While the stories cited by Jordan served an obvious polemical purpose for European Christians in their demonizing of the Muslims, who are pictured as prone to same-sex desire, there is more in these texts than that. "As it begins to act out its own worship of the boy-saint, the Christian community seems as much bothered by his beauty as was the caliph" (28). For "... the flattery of his beauty that is sung by male choirs ..." (27) does unavoidably bring up questions of the point of such God-bestowed male beauty, so dangerous to its bearer and to its observers, including (perhaps?) the monks chanting Pelagius's praises."
and . . .
"That liturgy, he notes, focuses as intently on Pelagius's beauty as did the caliph." in "Ganymede/Son of Getron: Medieval Monasticism and the Drama of Same-Sex Desire" by V. A. Kolve in Speculum, Vol. 73, No. 4 (Oct., 1998), pp. 1014-1067
and . . .
"Pelagius retains the Christian construct of blasphemous, sodomitic caliph,. while defusing the ephebe’s troubling erotic appeal for Christian chroniclers..." in "Queer Iberia: Sexualities, Cultures, and Crossings from the Middle Ages to the Renaissance (review)" by Leora Lev, in Journal of the History of Sexuality - Volume 10, Number 1, January 2001, pp. 119-122 
You should have no trouble finding these even in your school library. Haiduc 02:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not mind material from the Catholic encyclopaedia being included, but you well know we cannot privilege one source over another. But let's go ahead and present that point of view first, and then we'll detail the academic view. No problem there. Haiduc 17:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Info on pederastic nature of the conflict is everywhere 

message: As you appear to have reached a compromise on the POV issues brought up above, I am removing the "attention" tag from the Wikiproject infobox.  (The article is looking good, by the way.  It seems to acknowledge both the tradition of the pederasty in a way that allows for the fact that not everyone agrees on the veracity of the account).  Pastordavid 18:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Attention Tag

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thread_title:  External links modified