Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics/Graphics

message: Some fun reading for your free time:
* Bill Casselman has written a book about Mathematical Illustrations that can be downloaded free. At the bottom of that page is also a link to an AMS article (as PDF).
* Although out of print, another source of inspiration is topologist George K. Francis' A Topological Picturebook ().
* Mathematician Ralph Abraham at UCSC produced a 4-volume series of books packed full of images, Dynamics, the Geometry of Behavior (). Available on CD from Aerial Press.
* The great geometer David Hilbert, along with Stephan Cohn-Vossen, produced the must-have Geometry and the Imagination (), so good it was reprinted by the American Mathematical Society.
* More specialized is William S. Cleveland's The Elements of Graphing Data (), which is an excellent guide for its purpose.
* It may seem irrelevant, but a delightful non-mathematical source is Ollie Johnston and Frank Thomas, The Illusion of Life: Disney Animation ().
There are others, but these are all worth studying. Enjoy. --KSmrqT 10:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd love to see Abraham's images in WP. e.g. the current image in heteroclinic sucks. linas 22:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Wow, thanks for the link to the downloadable book! I will definitely read it! SharkD (talk) 08:07, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resources 

message: Such a thing can be done; but it's nontrivial. Animating a 3D deformation is an order of magnitude trickier than, say, animating a 3D translation. Any 3D animation is more complex than a similar static 3D rendering and much more complex than a 2D animation; on this scale a static 2D rendering is beneath notice. I work for free here but just to give you an idea: the coffeecup-into-doughnut trick is roughly a $1000 job -- done on the cheap. 
It's an interesting project and I'll look into it but meanwhile I'd appreciate if you would help me work off :Image talk:Pi-unrolled.gif. I've got new demo frames and I'd like to settle all issues before rendering a replacement. Also, I want the definitive answer on the description. 
Also outstanding is the discussion above on simple constructions. I need more input before starting that. John Reid 19:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi John, I didn't notice this until now.  I guess things have just been busier and busier.  Unfortunately, I'm g oing to be spending even less time now on Wikipedia.  A claymation would be fantastic and beyond what I had originally hoped for: just a series of images.  Feel free to email me, as I will not be checking here that often; I will try and provide a reasonably quick response.  --C S (Talk) 14:38, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Torus deformation 

message: I've been thinking about this task. I might do it with claymation. Interested? John Reid 07:56, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi John, I didn't notice this until now.  I guess things have just been busier and busier.  Unfortunately, I'm g oing to be spending even less time now on Wikipedia.  A claymation would be fantastic and beyond what I had originally hoped for: just a series of images.  Feel free to email me, as I will not be checking here that often; I will try and provide a reasonably quick response.  --C S (Talk) 14:38, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claymation 

message: see Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/Graphics/Torus. John Reid 04:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CG 

message: I note that the vast majority of all math images are at wikimedia commons mathematics category, where the are already classifie by subcat. Perhaps there should be an effort to consolidate efforts there?  I admit that the dozen or so images I've created exist on WP not WM, but perhaps that is wrong of me.   Any thoughts?
I also note that some of my images have been copied by others to WM commons, which is fine with me, but I'm concerned about forking, since my images have captions which I sometimes feel the need to correct, expand, revise, etc. and so would prefer to have everything located in one place. And suggestions on how to best handle redirects from WP to WM? linas 20:54, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  wikicommons vs. wikipedia 

message: Hi. I'd like to rewrite the bifurcation diagram page as currently it says very little about bifurcation diagrams. But it will need some good diagrams to be useful... can anyone here help? I can draw bad diagrams to show what would be needed.
Also, the other diagrams I've made in some of the bifurcation pages are fairly bad, if anyone wants to improve them...
Mathmoclaire 00:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bifurcation diagrams 

message: This needs to be the final installment of the Unrolled saga. I'm astonished to see that :Image:Pi-unrolled.gif was nominated for Featured Picture but it seems to me that if it has this potential, I'd be remiss not to go the extra mile for you all. 
I've reopened the discussion on what I surely hope is the final revision of this work. There has been lengthy comment but few concrete suggestions. The only point around which consensus seems to have settled is that the final rectangle, whose width/height ratio is π, should be dropped in favor of a fat, perhaps arrowed, line. I ask all interested participants to edit these specs directly to reflect their concerns. If you are okay with the specs, so state. I want to see a reasonable degree of consensus before I get into this again. John Reid 11:15, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pi/Unrolled -- The Death Star Strikes Back 

message: ...meanwhile I thought of this: 
I'd appreciate it checked for accuracy. Thank you. John Reid 16:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the labels are correct. The π/6 arc needs a larger radius to “read” clearly. The digits are noticeably bolder than the π they accompany. The solidus seems too wide; consider kerning or using “2π⁄5” style (2π⁄5, ⁄=U+2044). Consider using the same partition for the equilateral triangle and square as for the other regular polygons. Otherwise, it's visually clean. However, I would recommend using a gallery of separate images rather than one large composite. Among other benefits, it increases the possible uses. --KSmrqT 20:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polygons 

message: : A second way of visualizing radian measure is that it is the length of a circumferential arc of a unit circle. That is, a central angle of 2π/3 corresponds to an arc of that length. Thus we can measure angles by measuring lengths. This is one reason why radians are so natural for mathematics purposes, while degrees are more awkward and artificial. (Compare to solid angles, which typically use steradians, corresponding to area on a unit sphere.) --KSmrqT 20:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Image:Radian cropped color.png is similar to the standard illustration of radians; I think it is obtuse, counterintuitive, and perpetuates an air of mystery. An angle of 1 radian is an irrational angle -- forgive me if the term seems misapplied. For that matter, it is not contructible. It is, essentially, a silly angle. I don't doubt that the diagram has its uses but it's not a good introduction. I say this with authority; my students often have trouble wrapping their brains around 1 radian but when I explain that a full circle is 2π, a line is π, a right angle π/2 and so forth, they light up. This presumes that they have a good grasp of π in the first place, of course. 
Degrees are, of course, superstitious bumf. I have a clever little astrological chart made up that shows how primitive priest-astronomers stumbled on the fact that the sun goes around the earth in 360 days. Further refinements to the contrary, we are still stuck with this ancient measurement. (For that matter, perhaps we should be grateful. The nicely factorable 360 no doubt helped a lot of early geometers work stuff out; the error of 5.2425 helped to provoke all kinds of science and to dethrone mysticism.) 
I took the easy way out by demonstrating the common polygon angles. I think this is the most useful explanation but it is not direct. Also, sooner or later one needs to hit 1 radian -- all the integer, irrational angles. I've started work on a ridiculously complex animation but I worry it's impractical. 
Again, can you sketch something? Doesn't have to be beautiful or even accurate. I often work up clients' legal pad scribblings. John Reid ° 12:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radians as unit circle arcs 

message: : A third way to understand radians is to compare them to other angle measures. For this, a table would suffice, though a figure is conceivable.
::
cycle         	radian      	degree	grad
1 rev         	2π       	360°  	400 gon
1⁄2 rev 	π        	180°  	200 gon
1⁄4 rev 	π⁄2	90°   	100 gon
1⁄6 rev 	π⁄3	60°   	662⁄3 gon
1⁄8 rev 	π⁄4	45°   	50 gon
1⁄10 rev	π⁄5	36°   	40 gon
1⁄12 rev	π⁄6	30°   	331⁄3 gon
1⁄16 rev	π⁄8	22.5° 	25 gon
: Hope this helps. --KSmrqT 20:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radians in a table 

message: I tried replacing :Image:Paley13.png with :Image:Paley13.svg, and it looks ok on the image page and in my gallery. But when I try to use a thumb of it on an article page, with or without a pixel size, it just comes up blank; e.g. here. Is there something obvious I'm doing wrong? —David Eppstein 18:29, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks OK to me. --Salix alba (talk) 18:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To clarify, it's not white, it's 100% transparent at all pixels, both in my browser and when I drag the image to my desktop and open the resulting png in Photoshop. This is after reloading after seeing your "OK to me" comment, so it's not a temporary glitch that has mysteriously fixed itself. —David Eppstein 19:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I re-uploaded the image with a white background rectangle instead of leaving the background transparent. Now the thumb works fine but the page for the image itself shows nothing (or rather the checkerboard that indicates total transparency). Curiouser and curiouser. —David Eppstein 19:25, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It might be a cache problem the same image at 200px and 201px. The lhs is blank and the rhs shows what it should be. As the 201px size is new the thumb is recreated and this time it works correctly, while the 200px is already stored (incorectly). WP:PURGE might shed some light. --Salix alba (talk) 19:57, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Well the lhs was blank until I saved the page! --Salix alba (talk) 20:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's still blank for me.  There have definitely been some problems with image caching in the past week or so — seems like some of the cache servers aren't getting purged no matter what, and so keep serving old versions of images and thumbs.  Hopefully the cache admins will soon figure out what causes it and get it fixed.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 20:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I did some purging of this page and the image page. It might have cured the problem, although it seems a black art to me at the moment. --Salix alba (talk) 13:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The SVG renderer used here is deficient in numerous ways. Another example is that it does not seem to handle dashing. But it's fast! (As the old observation goes, if a program is not required to be complete and correct, it can be arbitrarily fast.) --KSmrqT 05:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blank thumb in svg? 

message: I thought I should ask here too. Comments may be needed on the torus animation by Kieff: Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/Graphics/Torus. --Bernard 18:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Torus animation 

message: Dear Wikimedians,
This is a (belated) announcement that requests are now being taken for illustrations to be created for the Philip Greenspun illustration project (PGIP).
The aim of the project is to create and improve illustrations on Wikimedia projects. You can help by identifying which important articles or concepts are missing illustrations (diagrams) that could make them a lot easier to understand. Requests should be made on this page: Philip_Greenspun_illustration_project/Requests
If there's a topic area you know a lot about or are involved with as a Wikiproject, why not conduct a review to see which illustrations are missing and needed for that topic? Existing content can be checked by using Mayflower to search Wikimedia Commons, or use the Free Image Search Tool to quickly check for images of a given topic in other-language projects.
The community suggestions will be used to shape the final list, which will be finalised to 50 specific requests for Round 1, due to start in January. People will be able to make suggestions for the duration of the project, not just in the lead-up to Round 1.
* General information about the project: m:Philip_Greenspun_illustration_project
* Potential illustrators and others interested in the project should join the mailing list: mail:greenspun-illustrations
thanks, pfctdayelise (talk) 13:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[m:GIP|Greenspun illustration project]]: requests now open 

message: I create all sorts of graphics for PDF documents using latex (mostly the epix and pstricks + add-ons packages), but I have no idea how to create an SVG instead of a DVI/PS/PDF file. I want to start adding images here at some point, but none of these formats are any good here. I've searched the net, and there are some (mostly commercial) conversion programs to convert each of those files to an SVG file, but the ones I tried tend to make a mess of the graphic (especially the fonts). There was a really good one, pdf2svg, but at $500+ for a license, I think I'll pass. So, long story short, is there any reliable way to have latex output to an SVG file? Or am I going about creating these graphics the wrong way? Ben (talk) 17:08, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to know what software you recommend, too. I've looked inside a lot of the SVG images on Wikipedia and they all say "Inkscape". However, I'm not convinced artists aren't just using this program for post-processing (this is the only use I've found for it so far). SharkD (talk) 02:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

text: By the way, Asymptote (vector graphics language) is another alternative to pstricks. Unfortunately, it suffers from the same limitation, as it does not natively support SVG as an export format. SharkD (talk) 02:34, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Inkscape is a perfectly good SVG editor, but its PDF/PS import ain't too hot.  (It's basically using pstoedit internally.)  The best (free) tool I've found for that is, surprisingly, the Scribus desktop publishing program, which can import PostScript and export SVG.  Combine it with pdf2ps and Bob's your uncle.  Of course, depending on what you're trying to convert, YMMV.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 03:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I forgot about Scribus. However, I was looking more for software specifically designed for scientific/mathematics graphics. I just started testing gnuplot and haven't been very impressed with it so far. It's easy to use, but the aesthetic quality of the output is severely lacking. Of course, I haven't scratched too deep beneath the program's surface. There may be lots of graphic options I haven't encountered yet. SharkD (talk) 04:45, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Creating SVG graphics 

message: I would just like to mention that GeoGebra can be used to create geometric constructions and other plots and graphs in SVG. I noticed that some users use Inkscape, and wanted to point out that they may face less difficulty with this software. SharkD (talk) 00:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The program also supports LaTeX in formulas. SharkD (talk) 04:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: GeoGebra for creation of SVG images

message: The images in Quadric will probably all need to be replace quite soon. They seem to be copyvios from  and are currently up for deletion on commons. --Salix alba (talk) 13:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quadric 

message: If anyone would like to contribute a picture of a torus with a tight place (systole) for introduction to systolic geometry, I would appreciate it.  Katzmik (talk) 13:20, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this what you mean? RobHar (talk) 01:28, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, very nice picture.  However, it looks like the torus is pinched, and I was thinking of a torus with a tight, but still positive size, place, as well as perhaps a loop around it to show the "shortest loop" on the torus.  Would it be too much trouble to produce an additional picture of this sort?  Katzmik (talk) 08:51, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How's this? I don't really know any systolic geometry so I'm not sure what you are trying to show. If you want a loop that looks more like a path on the bigger torus I can do that, too. RobHar (talk) 18:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks very much, that's terrific.  If you have a few minutes, could you please design a more precise version of the figure at Elementary calculus?  I would much appreciate it.  Katzmik (talk) 09:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  torus with a tight place 

message: Ok, so here is my Christmas list. I would like a picture of:
*a 2-sphere composed of two overlapping hemispheres labeled A and B and their intersection, labeled A\cap B, should be a thin band, i.e. a 'think circle'. Ideally the three "pieces" (the hemispheres and the bank) of the sphere have different colors with the labels consistently colored also.
*a torus composed of two overlapping tubes called A and B (half toruses) with the intersection appropriately labeled. On the torus there is a loop passing through both tubes. The loop is segmented as two paths (half loops), one lying wholly in A and the other lying wholly in B. The first path is labeled u, the second v, and the common endpoints labeled ∂u. EDIT: the same idea but with a 2-torus instead of a simple torus would be better. GeometryGirl (talk) 22:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, I've given the 2-sphere graphic a try . Mind you I've never done this before so it's probably not very good. I was unclear as to whether you wanted the pieces separated or not (I have separated them, but putting them back together would be very easy). Tell me what you think. I'll probably give the torus a try, too. Do you want the pieces separate? Cheers. RobHar (talk) 19:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's great but I would like them not separated. To see the overlapping I think it would be nice to have the pieces semi-transparent (not fully opaque). GeometryGirl (talk) 20:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, I'll get on that in a bit. RobHar (talk) 20:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I've got another candidate for the sphere . I find it hard to show the intersection. Hopefully this works. RobHar (talk) 06:18, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is very much what I wanted (at least the idea of it). If you find better graphical solutions the better, but for now I'll put it on the article. Great job RobHar! GeometryGirl (talk) 08:05, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help needed for [[Mayer-Vietoris sequence]] article (ARCHIVE) 

message: Image:Boundary map on 2-torus.jpg|Illustration of the boundary map ∂* on the 2-torus where the 1-cycle x = u + v is the sum of two 1-chains whose boundary lies in the intersection of A and B.
Image:Klein bottle decomposed as two Möbius strips.JPG|The Klein bottle (fundamental polygon with appropriate edge identifications) decomposed as two Möbius strips A (in red) and B (in green).
Image:Suspension of the 0-sphere.JPG|This decomposition of the suspension X of the 0-spheres Y yields all the homology groups of X.
These pics remain to be converted to computer graphics:GeometryGirl (talk) All done! RobHar (talk) 00:07, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Double-torus done (see ). I'll work on the other two soon. RobHar (talk) 23:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Suspension of the 0-sphere done (see here). The svg version is messed up, anyone know why (I made it in inkscape and saved it as Plain svg). RobHar (talk) 20:56, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

text: When making the new version I tried out drawing X as A union B, but I found it made the meaning less clear. Specifically, I felt that X should be displayed on its own before being displayed as a union, just to make it clear what space was being dealt with. I thought of adding another X drawn as A union B but I feared that would be overkill. What do you think? RobHar (talk) 19:00, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Jitse Niesen, that worked marvelously! (and I see that was written earlier on the page...oops). RobHar (talk) 19:00, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Klein bottle done a while ago. DMacks (talk) 04:15, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: ??? RobHar (talk) 05:42, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This section begins with a request to make improved diagrams for some hand-drawn ones. the middle one of the three up there is a Klein bottle. A high-quality diagram equivalent exists (actually has for a while)--I am stating that fact and linking to the apparent replacement (I see links for some of the hand-drawn images but not that one). I don't know the workflow here regarding handled requests, but the low-quality image is still up there and is now up for deletion (because it's low quality and has a high-quality alternative available). I'm giving a direct link here to the new image so that anyone looking here (the only place that the old image is still in use) can verify that there is indeed a replacement available. Feel free to click on the old image and join in its deletion discussion. I have no idea the thoughts about WPMath regarding keeping superseded images (Is there value to the hand-drawn one? Should the others similarly be deleted as obsolete?) DMacks (talk) 08:19, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Converting to computer graphic 

message: Hi, Jakob recommended that I ask you for help with figures.  I'm trying to bring the Euclidean algorithm to Featured Article; the text is nearly ready but more images would be helpful.  I've made a series of 13 color SVG images illustrating how the EA finds the greatest common divisor of 1071 and 462; they can be found here.  I'd like to stitch these SVG images together into an SVG animation, that is, without making it into a GIF animation, which sacrifices resolution.  Could someone here do that, or tell me how to do that on Wikipedia?  Thanks! Proteins (talk) 05:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not knowing that animated SVG was possible a had a look around and found it is and there are some on commons commons:Category:Animated SVG. However none of these seem to work in my browser (firefox). Apparently they get converted to a png before rendering so animation won't work. A gif animation will be a fair solution as being a solid colour image it should resize fine. Animated PNG is another option. --Salix (talk): 09:11, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

text: It looks good to me. A couple of picky points. There is a small problem with frames 5 onwards - the second blue square is slightly higher than it should be, also the red squares have a slightly too wide a border on the rhs. Also wondering if some different numbers could be chosen so that the red squares are not quite so small.--Salix (talk): 15:28, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with SVG animation 

message: Please see Talk:Function_(mathematics)#black_box_.2F_machine_image_needed. This would be a simple project for someone with image skills, but my attempts to make images are never successful. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image request for the function article 

message: I was wondering if we should aim to use a similar font as the LaTeX output in images that reproduce formulas from the body of the article. For instance, most of the images in HSL and HSV#Formal_derivation that use a Sans Serif font. It's kind of hard to identify in the images what is a formula, and what are merely labels. Using a Latin font might help to distinguish between the two types. Thanks. SharkD  Talk  06:16, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Follow-ups here:  SharkD  Talk  18:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Font used in formulas, in images 

message: There is currently a hand-drawn figure at standard part function.  It would be desirable to replace it by a finer drawing if possible.  Tkuvho (talk) 16:55, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image request for standard part function article 

message: Hi. There is an animation of chain rule. It has no good description and it's value is unclear/
doubtful. Can you check it ? Should it be removed or described ? TIA--Adam majewski (talk) 08:13, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  chain rule