Talk:Uradel

message: Do we have any information actually linking the Uradel to those with leadership positions back in the Migration Period?  Any sources?  It's a fascinating piece of information.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.216.102.239 (talk) 00:58, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some are linked on wikipedia if you allow male and female lines back. See e.g. Fred Barbarossa.86.43.178.54 (talk) 10:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: this is complete nonsense. Almost everyone in Europe can trace their ancestry to the migration period "if you allow male and female lines back". This has nothing to do with nobility, let alone with "Uradel". I am easily able to trace my lineage back to Charlemagne, as is anyone else who has a few centuries of genealogical records.  You are just making stuff up here. Most "Uradel" families arose out of undocumented local lineages in the 12th or 13th centuries. Yeah, so they presumably have ancestors who lived during the migration period, but so does everyone, and everyone with the same complete absence of documentation. --dab (𒁳) 12:34, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Migration Period 

message: I see merger proposals but there is nothing on the relevant pages mentioned.86.43.178.54 (talk) 10:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger discussions

message: This article includes too much information about the term Uradel in Scandinavia, although in English it is primarily used to refer to German nobility. I tried to accommodate Breadbasket's attempt to put more non-German than German info by referring to the term's "Northern European" usage, but that keeps getting reverted by Breadbasket, whose efforts to skew the article are noted in the section above, as well as other editors' objections thereto. As clearly indicated in the section above, this term's usage for Scandinavian nobility is minimally documented, and its usage for Scandinavian nobility in the English language is completed undocumented. The result is that the article violates Wikipedia's undue emphasis standard by implying that the term is as associated with the nobility of Norway as with Germany's nobility, and relying upon Scandinavian standards rather than German standards to define the term. Therefore, I am editing the article both for balance and for the quality of English. FactStraight (talk) 23:04, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The term should be defined to portray prevalent usage rather than obscure usage. "Northern Europe" is a general term and does not suggest any specific nation. Your interpretations of the term's prevalence in Norway or Scandinavia have been disputed in the section above, clearly indicating there is a lack of consensus for this article's emphasis on it. The objection isn't that the term was not used in Scandinavia nor that the article shouldn't mention Scandinavia, but that Uradel is primarily used to refer to the German nobility -- and that reality is obfuscated when as much of the articlel refers to Scandinavian as to German usage. FactStraight (talk) 15:58, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

text: It has not been established that the term is now used more prevalently in Germany than in Scandinavia. The term was introduced in the final years of the HRE, i.e. before there even was any country called "Germany". It was primarily used in Prussia in the 19th century. The cultural connections between Prussia and Sweden were rather stronger than, say, between Prussia and Austria or Bavaria, hence the category "Germany" if used in the post-1990 territorial sense makes very limited sense here. Perhaps you can use "German" in the 19th-century sense of "German Confederation", but if you want to define "German nobility" in an ethnic sense, you have your work cut out for you, as you will find loosely "German"-derived nobility sprawled over much of Europe, anywhere between Sevilla and Moscow, pretty much for the last 500 years or so. --dab (𒁳) 13:28, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Nor has it been established that the term is now used in English as prevalently to refer to Scandinavia's nobility as to Germany's. Since the association of Uradel with Scandinavia as comparable to Germany was disputed when last discussed on this page (I continue to agree with the challenge and to dispute the usage) and no consensus reached, it remains undue weight for the article to reflect that POV. Nor do I concur that in the 19th century "The cultural connections between Prussia and Sweden were rather stronger than, say, between Prussia and Austria or Bavaria", except in the area of religious faith. FactStraight (talk) 19:28, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northern Europe 

message: Are Menshikov German hochadel and briefadel? 95.24.68.167 (talk) 19:43, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Menshikov