Talk:Holy Week

message: "...but contemporary Protestant Churches, like the Roman Catholic Church, ..."
surely this can't be right
" christianity is faith " u believe in soul .. u believe in god!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.96.227.92 (talk) 23:11, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Syntax

message: * NO MERGE One thing is the Holy Week, and other things are the Processions. The are many many processions, for example, in Spain, and it deserve its own page.User:Grindkore
* The term Holy Week has meaning outside of the Holy Week Processional and merits its own page.  There are rituals and celabrations in many cultures that have little to do with the processional itself. Vineviz 20:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger of Holy Week and Holy Week processions

message: Could someone organize the section of Orthodox Holy Week a little better?  It lists each service, but has no in depth coverage except for only a couple points.  The Catholic section is divided into a section for each day with a lot more detail.
Additionally, the last line in the Orthodox section has a bunch of nonesense that I can't even come close to making out. --66.75.246.114 00:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More detail for Orthodox Section

message: How about Roman Catholic? I'm in a Western church, I'm evangelical/nondenom, and we don't have eucharists and all that. The Person Who Is Strange 01:52, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western Church? 

message: It should read: Holy Week in Western Catholic Church or Roman Catholic.  The practices it describes are uniquely Catholic.  Another section should be included for Holy Week in Western Protestant Churches. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.150.175.7 (talk) 23:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Holy Week in Western Church 

message: This article of Holy Thursday seems to be vandalized with repeated words of "Insert non-formatted text here".  Can someone fix this?--Angeldeb82 03:43, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article vandalized 

message: i'm not sure but i believe there is a holy week celebrated in south of france. Paris By Night 21:26, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course there is. I think there are some Christians that live there. --93.135.35.233 (talk) 09:09, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: holy week in france

message: The is a large degree of overlap and even duplicate text between Holy Week and Holy Week (Catholic Church).  Some parts of Holy Week (Catholic Church) could be moved to Holy Week in the Philippines and Holy Week in Seville and the rest could be moved here, especially the section on Eastern Catholic Churches. —  AjaxSmack  02:26, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. InfernoXV (talk) 19:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Agreed. The Roman Catholic Church article is merely one variant of how Holy Week is celebrated among Christian communities.  There's no reason for the Catholic Church to have its own separate version of the article unless we're going to provide separate articles for each denomination, or even each Anglo-Catholic denomination. tsjackso (talk) 14:23, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Disagreed.  -173.64.120.91 (talk) 13:52, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger of Holy Week and Holy Week (Catholic Church)

message: I'm surprised by not being able to find a reference on the actual date of the holy week depending on the year.euyyn (talk) 02:39, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Calendar?? 

message: I just found "(traditionally only the celebrant communes not the congregation)" and will be revising it to point out this was before the reforms of the 1950s.  Communion became available to the faithful, not just the celebrant, at the Good Friday service from then on.  By the way, this eliminated an occasional problem with the "9 First Friday" Communion devotion (when Good Friday fell on 1st Friday of April).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 16:51, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Communion on Good Friday 

message: In the Holy (Maundy) Thursday notes, I find this:
'However, the Mass does not officially end and technically extends over the next two days, not "ending" until the end of the Easter Vigil Mass.'
What is the meaning of that?  What I know about the Triduum (Holy Thursday, Good Friday, Holy Saturday) is that the Mass of the Last Supper ends and is immediately followed by procession to the altar of repose, then by stripping of all altars except the one of repose.  Mass is not celebrated again until the Easter Vigil; the "Mass of the Pre-Sanctified" (in the meantime, on Good Friday) is not actually a Mass, because it has no Consecration.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 18:20, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does THIS mean regarding Mass? 

message: One thing I found initially very confusing about Holy Week in Eastern Christianity is that it lasts eight days, from Lazarus Saturday through Great and Holy Saturday. I expected it to be seven days, being called a "Week." It'd be helpful if this could be clarified. Dcoetzee 15:46, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that's not right. The article has now been clarified. Evensteven (talk) 22:53, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eight days 

message: I propose that Easter Week be merged into Holy Week. It is hard to seek what the distinction is. S. Rich (talk) 14:43, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not so hard really: Holy Week is the week leading to Easter Sunday; Easter Week is the week that follows Easter Sunday.  Esoglou (talk) 14:51, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

text: I have removed the tags, since this is evidently based on a misapprehension. StAnselm (talk) 21:17, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah-Ha! Thanks for fixing my apprehension.  I've modified the EW article to clarify and will do the same for HW.--S. Rich (talk) 22:45, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: A passage (at the History section) that imo certainly needs correction reads (emphasis mine):</br>
"... The earliest Catholic allusion to the custom of marking this week as a whole with special observances is to be found in the Apostolical Constitutions (v. 18, 19), dating from the latter half of the 3rd century and 4th century. ..." </br>
If one is to read-understand this (something imo unlikely) as saying that Catholics of e.g the 20th century allude to this text as.... then it's an issue of Catholic theology-... and no comment by me would follow apart from why mention only the Catholics??</br>
But I read this passage, I understand this (and I think that most people would agree with me in this) as stating that Catholics of the 3rd century CE alluded to ... </br>
If the latter is true then this is meaningless and/or wrong; speaking about the Catholic Church (or the Orthodox or ...) in the 3rd century CE is simply ahistorical, anachronistic.No Catholic or Orthodox or ... Church per se existed in that period;what existed then was the precursor(s) of the various Churches;at this period (before (or just on the onset of) Constantine, Theodosius etc) we couldn't meaningfully even yet talk about a Roman Imperial Church...</br>
In any case the passage can easily be misinterpreted so it needs to be edited.</br>
So to all interested parties: </br>
please clarify and/or edit;i.e. and e.g. Catholic  in this passage must be replaced by something like traditional church...Thanatos|talk 12:23, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: As there was no edit, reply, comment, objection by others to what I've written above, I went ahead did the edit myself;it now reads "...traditional church allusion...".Thanatos|talk 15:32, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  History Section;Catholic Allusion in the 3rd century: There was no Catholic allusion in 3rd c. CE (nor Orthodox etc) cause at that period the Catholic Church hadn't clearly evolved yet 

message: It says here that:
Holy Week starts on Lazarus Saturday, the day before Palm Sunday. 
Then later on we are informed that:
Holy Week begins with what in the Roman Rite is now called Palm Sunday of the Passion of the Lord. 
Something is rotten (in Denmark). --213.190.107.34 (talk) 15:52, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discrepancy 

message: It says in the text that Friday of Sorrow tradition has been maintained after Vatican II, because of the importance of Santeros tradition. In Spain and other places
 most people don't even know what santería is and the Friday of Sorrow is usually celebrated. I think you should omit this allusion to santería here. thanks  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibn Gabirol (talk • contribs) 17:13, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have revised the section to cut down on this and other unsourced statements.  Esoglou (talk) 19:59, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Santero culture 

message: I am not aware of any sources that place the "Friday of Sorrows" as a part of Holy Week. Most sources unanimously state that Holy Week begins on Palm Sunday. I would support a brief mention of the Friday of Sorrows or a link in the "See also" section, however. I look forward to hearing other thoughts on this issue. With regards, AnupamTalk 04:20, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: You can find many sources (especially in Spanish) that do call it the start of Holy Week: tourism sites and the like, which are really talking about Holy Week festivities, not Holy Week proper.  I would welcome a reduction of its mention in an article about Holy Week, which does indeed begin with Palm Sunday.  Esoglou (talk) 09:06, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your reply User:Esoglou. Since you have more knowledge on this topic, you can have the honours of working on the section :) Have a blessed Holy Week, AnupamTalk 20:49, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I find I have too much to do these days.  I have merely moved the section to a less prominent position.  Esoglou (talk) 11:19, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Friday of Sorrows 

message: , in the section above you say that all the sources are agreed that Holy Week begins on Palm Sunday. Would you pick a good one and add it to the article? I think that should be sourced as reflective of western tradition. Perhaps more than one would help also (if you know of them): Catholic certainly, but Anglican and Lutheran? Others? I think in the west, everything about this originated in Catholic practice, so the main questions would be about any later divergences. In Orthodoxy, neither Lazarus Saturday (the day before Palm Sunday) nor Palm Sunday itself are considered to be in Holy Week, which consists of the six "weekdays" between Palm Sunday and Pascha. I've got to find Orthodox sourcing for that too. The sources will help a lot to resolve any confusions about church calendar differences. Evensteven (talk) 21:46, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: is correct that the Orthodox service books begin the week with Monday; however, the Triodion calls it Passion Week (which, IIRC, refers in the West to the preceding week). In the Triodion, all weeks begin on a Monday.  Actually, Passion Week is six and a fraction days since it begins at vespers Sunday night and continues through the midnight office Saturday night. Vincent J. Lipsio (talk) 22:20, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it's six liturgical days. (I made a foray into that quagmire already.) From the earliest times, the formation of Christian worship was first patterned on Jewish forms. As such, the "day" began at sunset, as it does in the Hebrew calendar. Vespers was created as the first service of a liturgical day. And so it is still observed today, all the time. So, liturgically speaking, Palm Sunday ends at sunset and a "Sunday" evening service really belongs to liturgical Monday. The midnight office you refer to belongs to liturgical Pascha (Sunday), even though it is celebrated just before midnight, preceding Paschal Orthros (which is timed for midnight), which precedes the Paschal Divine Liturgy. Liturgical Saturday ends at sunset, but on Holy Saturday the last service celebrated is usually a morning Divine Liturgy. The "week" of Holy Week is used loosely to apply to the 6 holy days between the two high Sundays. Evensteven (talk) 23:43, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Triodion ends after the midnight service.  The midnight service is of the Great Sabbath (Holy Saturday), although the preceeding vespers (vesper liturgy) is a resurrectional service.  Pascha begins with Sunday matins.  So, in some sense, it's both Saturday and Sunday for part of a day, but the liturgical books continue Saturday through the midnight service.  The midnight office is *not* part of Pascha; just look at its propers, e.g., "This is the holy and blessed Sabbath ...". Vincent J. Lipsio (talk) 11:49, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I never would have disputed the midnight service's anticipatory character, but had simply viewed that as the prelude to the announcement of the "coming of the light" at Orthros. I had overlooked the reference to the Sabbath, and it seems the Triodion makes it all plain. Thanks for clearing up my confusion on those points. I too have understood the preceding Vesperal Liturgy of Holy Saturday to be a resurrectional service, and have heard it described in short as celebrated "in anticipation" of Pascha. Does it not also reflect the unity of God the Son in His two natures, divine and human, both having already descended to the place of the dead (Hades), and on that very Sabbath day "trampling down death by His own death", which is announced as accomplished fact on Sunday? And so Holy Saturday always ends up being both anticipatory and resurrectional, since that is the day when death is destroyed. Fifteen years I am Orthodox, and yet only with difficulty able to grasp the basics. Then again, that's what it is to be Orthodox, I think. Evensteven (talk) 17:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palm Sunday in Holy Week? 

message: There are several paragraphs, between Western and Eastern observances' descriptions, that are about Easter.  While I'm inclined to delete these since they are clearly out of scope in Holy Week, methought to first post here and get some feedback and consensus. Vincent J. Lipsio (talk) 21:50, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, let's take a little care. While I've also noted a thing or two that could be removed, let's agree that the focus of the article is not Easter. However, Holy Week is clearly associated with Easter in a highly significant fashion. Its whole design is to lead to Easter. Without maintaining this connection in full, we would harm the understanding of Holy Week itself. Let's deal with specifics. Also, it might be good to move some material rather than simply delete it here. Evensteven (talk) 23:26, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Easter does not belong in this article 

message: far and away is used to describe the week of the Passioni.e., the topic of this article. Is the sense described at the article Passion Week (Roman Catholicism) even noteworthy enough to deserve a hatnote here or is that ? Cursory Googling suggests even Catholics use 'Passion Week' to describe the topic of this article, not the far less important week before it. — LlywelynII 19:10, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Passion Week

message: Why does this article erroneously equate Palm Sunday with Passion Sunday? Passion Sunday is not Palm Sunday, it is the Sunday before Palm Sunday. Vorbee (talk) 08:13, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you read the article? It is explained therein. In the ordinary form of the Roman Rite, it is Palm Sunday of the Lord's Passion. In the 1962 Missal and previous, Passion Sunday precedes Palm Sunday. Elizium23 (talk) 08:17, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Palm Sunday is not Passion Sunday

message: Holy Week is the week before Easter, beginning with Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, climaxing with the Last Supper and Passion of Jesus - the arrest, trial, crucifixion and burial, and ending with his sabbath rest in the grave on Holy Saturday.  The resurrection on The eighth day (Christian), the Lord's day, marks the beginning of a new week, Easter week. ~23 March 2021 Jaredscribe (talk)
A week is from Kyriake/Lord's day/1st day -> Savato/Sabbath/Saturday/7 day.  Holy Week starts Palm Sunday and ends on Holy Saturday; it does not include Easter, this is noted in the lede of the article, but it could be more clear.  The article needs more historical detail - its overly heavy liturgical traditions and too light on the actual events that they commemorate.  Since these already have their own wikipedia articles, we can just list them in the lede, as in the above example.  , this is why I propose adding these. 
:Up to my knowledge, the liturgical use of "Holy Week" includes the office and services of Easter Sunday. This is in my humble opinion also being explained in Pius XII.'s Hebdomadae Sanctae instauratus or documents like The rites of Holy Week by Frederick R. McManus. HTH, --Medusahead (talk) 09:09, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  quoting the lede of this very article contrary to @:   The cited sources supporting this are more WP:Independent that Pius XII, or McManus IMHO.  Although the documents you reference may be cited in the article to support the current doctrine and practice of the Roman church, per WP:DUE. RegardsJaredscribe (talk) 05:19, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Triumphal entry Palm Sunday -> Burial & Rest Holy Saturday

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