Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 7

message: Six months ago the Project was contacted by the Wikipedia 1.0 version people to request articles that they could stick into their project. At that time it was explained that as coverage of operatic topics was so basic we couldn't really help (it's all in Archive 2). A lot has happened in those six months and I wonder whether now we aren't sufficiently advanced so that we can't contribute something. Coverage of opera has improved enormously and a concerted drive on the main opera article and various others should mean that operatic fundamentals could be covered to an acceptable standard (for the purposes of that project) fairly quickly. Any thoughts? --Moreschi 15:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what other people think but IMO we are still working on the basics. I don't know of any articles which have been fully developed (except for Porgy and Bess). The articles on the Donizetti operas are a case in point. They have basic factual information but that is all. (We have achieved a great deal in the last six months but putting out top-class articles is not one of them - it will come though!)  - Kleinzach 01:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some stuff 

message: From time to time I make redirect pages that guide, say, a reader entering Dove sono to The Marriage of Figaro, to pick a too-obvious example. There are many moderately well-known arias that might not deserve their own article (yet), but which might redirect the curious reader to the opera in question. When one is editing an opera article, it's easy to open a second window, cut n paste aria incepits into the navigation bar, hit "Enter" and make a redirect. Redirect pages are easily rewritten as full articles at any time. --Wetman 22:44, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO it is better to keep redirects for titles. Content can easily be found using search. Anyone who forgets where 'Dove sono' appears can find the answer easily enough, either through WP or Google. - Kleinzach 03:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aria redirects 

message: A number of proposed additions/deletions to the List of major opera composers are now on the related Talk page. Please let us have your opinion by voting and making any nominations you think appropriate. (The hope is to come up with a stable and well-established list!) - Kleinzach 13:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Damn, I didn't even know this list existed. Just off to vote now. Moreschi 16:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have just made the changes in line with the vote. We are now down to a list of 41 composers. IMO it's an improved, more reasonable, selection. - Kleinzach 15:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Perhaps you could supply us with reasoning as to why? Cheers, Moreschi 19:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks. Any other opinions? I'm kind of undecided. Moreschi 20:27, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Please vote! List of major opera composers/additions and deletions

message: 
Prelude

Character	Description                                            	Voice part  	Original cast
Le Temps 	God of Time                                            	baritone    	?
Tragedy  	Tragedy                                                	Tragedy     	Tragedy
Atys     	Attis,  relative of Sangaride and favourite of Celaenus	haute-contre	Cledière

This one is useful if there are distinct segments of the opera (example hopefully posted in a couple minutes at Atys (Lully). The one below is somewhat simpler, but is probably good enough for most things. (example Owen Wingrave) I'm sure something better than a question mark could be proposed when part of the original cast is unknown.
:::

:Character
:Bob	
:Description
:A nice guy, friend of Joey	
:Voice part
:Coluratura bass	
:Original cast
:John Smith

Mak (talk) 19:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Character tables

message: The official and legal name of the organization is "OPERA America." Originally, O.P.E.R.A. was an anagram. The capitals have been preserved as part of the name although the longer name is not in use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OperaDevel (talk • contribs) 
Welcome OperaDevel (although we won't know it's you unless you sign with four tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~ ~, but without the spaces). Thanks for explaining your reasoning. Best, Moreschi 19:37, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome OperaDevel.  If you take a look at the page Opera America, we noted that the name OPERA America is the official name; however, names in caps are a bit discouraged in Wikipedia. --Doublea 23:29, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why OPERA America 

message: Given that I've been reading a lot on Laurent Pelly recently (given his Santa Fe Opera production of Cendrillon this year), I'll "have a go" at putting an article together. Vivaverdi 04:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Opera directors

message: I'm wondering whether a suitably edited version of the "opera" template ought to be on the "List of..." pages which we are currently collectively working on, rather than on their Talk pages.  This would alert non-members of the Project to the discussions and votes that we've been having, and to the need to justify any additions, and might stop them adding their favourite composer or opera to the list without thinking harder about it and checking what's been done recently.  Today, Kleinzach quite correctly reverted the addition of Louise to the List of important operas, but, unless the anonymous editor had looked at the Talk page, (s)he would not have known that annotations are required and that votes have been taken - and would have had to have looked at Talk:List of important operas/Archive3 to find out that Louise had got the chop on 23 June by a 2-0 vote!  --GuillaumeTell 21:28, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that would be a good idea; it would also help in the promotion of the OperaProject.--Doublea 03:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I take your point, I think there is a well-established rule that project templates go on the Talk pages. Meladina was putting his Russian opera templates on his article pages and there were objections from at least a couple of people. I think the reason is to avoid clutter on the article pages. - Kleinzach 04:41, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it's a good idea, but Meladina's ones got ruthlessly cut. I think that the same would happen here. It seems to be settled policy to only allow project templates on talk pages (though I'm not quite sure what the reason is; it might be a good idea to find out). Best, Moreschi 10:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates again 

message: Donizetti is still the composer of the monthe because something or somebody called Tawkerbot2 is automatically blocking any changes to the "To do" list. - 05:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hopefully it's fixed now. Mak (talk) 05:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Didn't know you could despatch bots. Impressive. - Kleinzach 05:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tawkerbot2 problem

message: Who should we have in September? Some previous candidates: Offenbach, Rossini, Richard Strauss and Verdi. Any new ones?  - Kleinzach 06:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lully. Mak (talk) 06:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd back Lully. It should be possible to have decent articles on all 15 (?) of Lully's operas by the end of next month. --Folantin 07:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lully sounds good. --Moreschi 10:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good. I will vote for Lully as well in order to wrap this up. I'll put a note on the main page. - Kleinzach 10:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Composer of the month for September?

message: User:Phaedriel/Soundtrack of Wikipedians. I've posted one or two starters just off the top of my head; I thought this might be a rare bit of fun for some of us to indulge in. Favourite arias, anyone...Best, Moreschi 20:08, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but I wonder if this is a good place for it. Maybe we should start a page of personally-recommended recordings (desert island discs?) linked off the Opera Project itself? Perhaps called Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Members' recordings or something like that . . . . It might be a way of personalizing the project.  - Kleinzach 09:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: If anyone is interested, check this out...

message: If anyone is interested, peer review for pre-operatic (Monteverdi wrote for them) group Concerto delle donne at Wikipedia:Peer review/Concerto delle donne/archive1. Any comments would be very much appreciated! Mak (talk) 20:13, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sorta spam

message: On a separate note, I'm off on holiday today and won't be back until the 27th. This means complete wikibreak (Arggh...!). I'm sorry that I won't be able to do much for Gluck month, but I'll be back for Lully. Happy editing, all! Cheers, Moreschi 10:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikibreaks

message: There's a trend in opera-related articles not to cite sources (I'm very guilty of this).  Reasons might be that opera articles tend to be non-controversial, that project contributors are usually reliable editors who've done their homework, or just laziness.  But WP:V applies and readers deserve sources.  Since most of us have Grove, some website, or some book on hand as we edit, it's easy enough to include it in the article.  I'm going to make a conscious effort to cite from now on (I usually use the <ref> tag system).  Fireplace 02:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I agree. It would be good practice to try to have at least one citation on each page. - Kleinzach 22:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citing sources 

message: An edit war has populated wikipedia with more junk articles than I have ever seen. I can't even figure out how it happened. Pages that redirect to themselves, Orphaned talk pages, all sorts of gross errors. For instance: Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers Talk:List_of_composer_of_opera  and several whole-scale dupes of the main article. List of opera composers considered major, for instance. 
How on earth did this happen? Adam Cuerden talk 00:14, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything should be pointing to the right place now. Let me know if I missed something. - EurekaLott 01:19, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of _____ opera composers _____ 

message: Nunquam Dormio has added a Notable recordings section to I puritani which consists of BBC Radio 3 recommendations (Building a Library). Is this appropriate - leaving aside the question of copyright - or should this material go in an External Links section? I've left a note for Mr ND but have had no reply. - Kleinzach 06:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, only the first two of the recordings are shown on the BBC site.  I'd remove the reference in the article to the BBC, and the link to the BBC site as well - it doesn't go straight to the Puritani recommendations and it's not very easy to provide a link that does.  And, FWIW, the Sutherland and Callas recordings (but not the Caballe one) are also those chosen by Peter G Davis in The Metropolitan Opera Guide to Recorded Opera. --GuillaumeTell 10:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. I have removed the links. Thanks. - Kleinzach 13:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: BBC Recommended Recordings