Talk:New Mexican cuisine

message: Unless I'm mistaking, "Chile" is a South American country and "chili" is a pepper. -Andrew
--Hi Andrew, you're not mistaken, but chile is the correct term for New Mexican green chile. I am amazed at all the controversy on this page from everyone! I see a lot of comments from people who probably never spent any time in the state. I spent 8 years living there and I can say for certain that the food is its own unique cuisine. It does blend from other familiar styles but it has its own place. Also, its own spellings. Posole is absolutely spelled with an 's' in New Mexico.
Green chile and the composition of what would be considered Mexican cuisine often differs drastically. Seasonings are done differently. My hope is to see residents of New Mexico correct this page - which is way off - and make it something really indicative of the culture and cuisine. Right now, the page is a real disappointment because it attempts to suggest the food is just like Mexican food, which is really inaccurate. Geekgirl13 (talk) 18:07, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: spelling

message: could this article be made a little less biased?
Chris
:Well, we don't HAVE to say that it's delicious, filling, and a cultural tradition... but that would just be a lie. ;) --BlueNight (talk) 02:36, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bias

message: All the other articles in the Cuisine series are titled "(insert country here) cuisine". So maybe we should move this article to New Mexican cuisine?--Rockero 18:26, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A week without objections. I'm executing the move.--Rockero 21:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good move.  Frankly, I wouldn't have even waited the week, since the move was clearly indicated by the extisting naming convention. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 21:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move

message: With regard to the the beans that are used being primarily of the kidney or black variety, nothing could be further from the truth!  New Mexican food uses PINTO beans.  Period. [The previous unsigned comment was posted by , 16:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Beans

message: To reiterate something that I think Deepstratagem first brought up, this article needs to be cleaned up, and I think doing so should be one of WP:WPNM's first major article tasks.  The things to do from my perspective 1) introduce and explain the nature of NM cuisine, its history, and its differences from other related styles, and do so with sources"; 2) Eliminate any prose from the list that is redunant with the list at Mexican cuisine or which doesn't expand in any way on what is at articles like taco and enchilada, just wikilink to those entries; 3) sourcedly explain how the NM food items in question differ from the equivalents in other styles where they do traditionally differ.  — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]   ‹(-¿-)› 04:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing your reversion is what made me bring this up again.  I agreed with your version more, but I think the editwarring (slow moving as it has been, it has still been editwarring for many months) needs to stop and some consensus discussion started in its stead. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]   ‹(-¿-)› 11:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: [] My edit just got reverted.
Honestly, what is the point of plagiarizing the Mexican cuisine page, and pretending this food is "New Mexican"? That is, half of the food here comes from Mexico and is intended to be just like Mexico's. So why do we repeat this stuff over and over? What's so notable about Chalupa's in New Mexico, that just needs to be mentioned here? In my opinion this entire article could be reduced to half as of the aforementioned edit if we remove redundancies.
Not to say there aren't differences worth noting. But if we don't note the real differences this article is misleading and hard to read. Deepstratagem 10:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing your reversion is what made me bring this up again.  I agreed with your version more, but I think the editwarring (slow moving as it has been, it has still been editwarring for many months) needs to stop and some consensus discussion started in its stead. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]   ‹(-¿-)› 11:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Reversion, and the redundancy of this article. 

message: Anyone else here have some input?  Consensus is kind of hard to be sure of when only two or three parties are involved... — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]   ‹(-¿-)› 11:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Moving forward

message: What cheeses are authentic to Mexican food? I've heard that cheddar is not authentic, for example, and that feta is a close approximation. 72.74.204.205 19:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: New Mexican food usually uses Asadero cheese, but the best varieties of this cheese are made by the Mennonites south of the border.  It's crumbly like Feta but tastes like Muenster.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.180.185.10 (talk) 23:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cheese? 

message: Does anyone see reason to have a discussion of the difference between northern and southern cuisines? It's a hot topic when you actually live here, but I don't know if it warrants wiki-discussion. Gtorell 18:02, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  North Vs. South 

message: The article says that "using red chile is not traditional New Mexican" however, in "The Good Life: New Mexico Traditions and Food" by Fabiola Cabeza de Baca Gilbert, the recipe specifically calls for "4 dried red chile pods", and no mention of green chile.  As this is something that would likely stir up an edit-war, I'm looking to talk about this first before I run in and change it under the auspice of "Hey! How can it not be traditional? That's how my mom made it and her mom before her!" --Puellanivis (talk) 10:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As I've received no input on this, I will be making the change to the mainspace article, as red chile is just as common a part of authentic New Mexican posole/pozole as green chile. (And in some parts, possibly even more "standard" than green chile) --Puellanivis (talk) 09:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pozole de Nixtamal 

message: I'd like to suggest that we work on cleaning up the list on this page about culinary terms.  We should really focus on what is different between New Mexican and Mexican food, or their variations.  If there's something that New Mexican and Mexican cuisine do almost entirely similar, then that should be noted in the text.  Anything that's entirely the same, should be dropped.  Maybe change the title to "List of unique New Mexico culinary terms" or "Variation of New Mexico culinary terms", something that gives a better idea of the variation of New Mexican food, rather than focusing on it as a singular stand-alone sort of cuisine. --Puellanivis (talk) 08:21, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning up "List of New Mexican culinary terms" 

message: The opening of this article does not sufficiently clarify that it is about cuisine from New Mexico, the state in the U.S.A.  To outsiders in this debate, like me, it's easy to think it is about "new" Mexican cuisine, particularly since it talks only about the country Mexico initially, and about influences from American cuisine, which could easily mean that it's about new developments _in Mexico_ in the cuisine native to that country.
I have no axe to grind about whether there is such a thing as "New Mexico cuisine" (which is perhaps a better name for the article?) but simply found the article confusing.  Indeed it was only by looking at this discussion page that I convinced myself it was about cuisine from the U.S. state. 
Strangelights (talk) 18:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarity needed, re: "new Mexican cuisine" and "New Mexican cuisine" 

message: I didn't read everybody's comments in detail, but... I grew up as a Mexican-American in Texas. We used practically all of the terms that you list in your "List of New Mexican culinary terms," section. If they are going to be separate, at least ad the proper ones to the Tex-Mex section. That way, those that don't really know, will.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.234.62 (talk) 07:11, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning up "List of New Mexican culinary terms" 

message: What a heated talk.  I cannot believe the string of discussion about New Mexican food... most of which I do not have time to read nor patience to read in detail.  All make good points and all show the love of a cuisine that is often missed by those who have a hard time getting it every day.  Bottom line is that article is fairly correct but the discussion is extreme.  New Mexican food is by its own nature of invention the coming together of a blend/fusion of it's influences... from the white man to the native American to the Mexican.  Over time, there have also been outside influences which have spilled over and cannot not always be defined as New Mexican (ie, fajitas, fish tacos, cilantro.. and BTW New Mexican food if not tex-mex).  
The staple, we can all agree is the chile, red or green, and it better be spicy. Growing up, the "joke" when describing our version of (New) Mexican food is "pain is a flavor". If you put the egg on top on your enchiladas then you know your are having a New Mexican dish, as other types of Mexican food would find that quite odd.  I am particularly fond of my Heuvos Rancheros served with Navajo Fry Bread and the spiciest red chile as this is the fusion of the cultures that defines New Mexican food and its fusion of 3 cultures (I will not go into detail on how fry bread came about but it has the influence of the white man in its development).  
Staple foods are always staple foods: Chile (red or green or both, but with good hot spice and flavor), enchiladas with a fried egg on top, sopaipillas that look like little pillows, rice and beans (type tends to vary and has many influences since these are staples with many cultures.  There are many Mexican dishes (enchiladas, tacos, tostadas, salsa etc), but what makes NEW Mexican CUISINE is the spicy and flavorful red or green chile.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dastormy (talk • contribs) 04:37, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enough: Fusion and Peace.  Think Christmas!! 

message: To call one chef’s interpretation of one cooking style ‘authentic’ is absurd beyond belief. Anyone who would do so is not a very accomplished chef. To change a certain style slightly and then call it some other authentic style is even more absurd. To say one chef’s interpretation of a region is ‘authentic’ would be implying that every chef in that region prepares the dish exactly the same. See the absurdity yet? Bermudacat (talk) 05:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Authentic?

message: As a native of New Mexico, I'm in a good position to offer perspective on this topic. 
There are distinctions that set New Mexico cuisine apart from any other. New Mexico is a "melting pot" of divergent cultural influences. Mexican, Spanish, Native American, Navajo, Pueblo, Anasazi, Apache, Hopi, Zuni, French, and New World American have contributed to a unique mix of creativity not found anywhere else in the world. Defining characteristics of local culinary art are varied, but specific. 
New Mexico chile is as highly prized as the wines of the California Wine Country. Similarly based on decades of indigenous horticulture and secretive agriculture, the accepted regional spelling of this cultivated poblano pepper/chili is "chile". 
Another is the functional re-assignment of a fried bread dessert, known in Mexico as "biscochito" and "buñuelo". Labeled "sopaipilla", it is also a fried bread, and duplicates the popularity of Navajo fried bread. It is traditionally served in restaurants before the main entree with a generous dispenser of honey. As a new restaurant visitor, the best way to embarrass parents was to rip off a corner of a sopaipilla and load it up with honey so that it exploded when eaten. Sopaipillas are often mistaken for their Mexican counterparts by those not familiar with local cuisine, who cause confusion by attempting to order them after, not before, the meal, or the other way around.
Yet another is the simple blue corn enchilada, outrageously good, and endlessly popular at the forever touristy Shed Restaurant in Santa Fe. It is actually an original recipe from Josie, who ran a small and wildly popular locals restaurant. She's long forgotten, but aggressively copied. Josie also broke the rules and added Baba au Rhum for dessert. French in origin, it was influenced by local French business owners of the early 1950's. It is currently labeled "mocha cake" at the Shed, which indicates the level of nouveau creativity New Mexico will go to re-inventing regional creations, as well as everyone else's.
The most unglamorous invention is the beyond-tasty green-chile-and-cheese grilled-cheese sandwich, an over-the-top favorite among University of New Mexico students, who can't find anything else to eat within walking distance at any hour of the night.
New Mexico State University Agricultural Extension Division published a classic and very authentic cookbook on New Mexico Cuisine decades ago (currently out of print), which stands as a written testament to New Mexico's ability to create its cuisine, as well as its license plates, which rightfully clarify "New Mexico, USA".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandiapeak (talk • contribs) 07:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree that identifying the melting pot, and asserting that the resulting cuisine is "unique," hardly represents bias.  "Unique" is an adjective that can be applied non-prejudicially to all manner of cuisines; on one level, any cuisine is "unique," in ways that allow one to define the cuisine.  It's only when one begins to assert that a cuisine is "better" (or more interesting, more famous, etc.) than other cuisines that the NPOV issue arises.  So can we get rid of the NPOV banner?  I think it's time. -- Bill-on-the-Hill (talk) 20:47, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biased is justified 

message: As an Andaluz living in New Mexico, it's hilarious that gazpacho is listed in this list of food. Gazpacho is from Arabic origin in Andalucía.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.123.242.201 (talk) 18:33, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gazpacho 

message: This is just a chile grown within the state of New Mexico.  Yes, they are a few specific varieties, but those seeds/plants are available to be elsewhere.  They are not uniquely grown in New Mexico.  Yes, they were developed in New Mexico, but how about naming the varieties, where they were developed and saying how their use might be different in New Mexican cuisine.
I've seen many folks confused by this term -- New Mexico chile -- thinking it was a special chili powder blend, i.e., herbs and spices, not just ground chiles, unique to New Mexico.  In the interest of imparting information, please clarify these aspect of the article.  Zlama (talk) 07:43, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: while true, we also basically idolize Chile to the point where some people would have withdrawal if they had no Chile. It's more of a cultural phenomenon then anything, plus there is just something... Different about Hatch. I think they have magicians or something down there, but it sure doesn't taste like regular chile. 24.116.90.157 (talk) 01:22, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Mexico Chile 

message: This chili is called guajillo chili in Mexican cuisine.  In fact, it is one of many pasilla chilies that are used in Mexican gastronomy. If New Mexican cuisine is anything, it is a different variety of Mexican food.  In Tamaulipas and part of Veracruz, for example, the deep fried visceral parts of a cow are sold as "chicharrón de res."  In northern Mexico, "barbacoa" is made of beef.  In central Mexico, it is made of slow cooked goat.  I do get how "New Mexican" cuisine is different from "Tex-Mex," though; however, as a Mexican, I would say that New Mexican cuisine is actually a lot closer to real Mexican than Tex-Mex is.  I think this deliberate demarcation stems from the myths created after the Mexican-American war by New Mexicans who suffered the anti-Mexican sentiments first handedly and decided to create a new mythology where they were Spanish-American, rather than Mexican.  But, if historiography is ever going to set the record straight, then it should start by rectifying these fallacies.  Just like New Mexico’s westernized founding stems from the Spanish colonial period, so does that of all of Latin America, and Latin Americans are not referred to as Spanish.  New Mexico stopped being a territory of Mexico, after Mexico declared its independence from Spain; so, technically, irrespective of Juan de Oñate’s provenance, New Mexico, like other states of Mexico with a colonial past, was still a Mexican territory.  And it’s ancestors, like the ancestors of many people who inhabit Latin America, may have been of Spanish ancestry, but those who settled there, were Mexican citizens before they became U.S. citizens.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.147.236.194 (talk) 19:06, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, no. New Mexico has been here for over one hundred years before Mexico even had one white village. The Spanish passed THROUGH Mexico, not stopping, and settled in new mexico. Years later they went back to Mexico. By that extent you could say that Mexican food is a spin off of new Mexican food. While it might not have been called New Mexico at the time, we were here first. As I ask everyone I correct, please do research before you state false facts on a respectable website. 24.116.90.157 (talk) 01:19, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Mexico Chili = [[Guajillo chili]]

message: Shouldn't it be Cuinise of New Mexico? The title is weird and confusing. Someone might think it is an article about a new form of Mexican cuisine. It is Cuisine of Kentucky not Kentuckian cuisine. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:26, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Mexican cuisine? 

message: This article is a total bastardization, for lack of a better word, of any kind of definition of cultural cuisine. It seems to pretend that the use of a different kind of chile (A chile that, by the way, is used in most of Mexico for the same purposes.) from the one used in Mexico city makes it a whole different  type of cuisine and blatantly ignores that the exact same food has been always eaten in the whole Aridoamercia side of Mexico, that is Sonora, Sinaloa, Chihuahua, Durango,Tamaulipas, Las  Bajas Californias, etc.
If anything it should be named Arido-American Cuisine, this article tries to tie the customs of a really big and politically/culturally complex region to the pride of a state. that is just wrong. There were Native Americans this side of the river too and there is heritage from them in Mexico too for god's sake, this article seems to pretend there is a unique mix in that  state and attributes a lot of Mexican customs to it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.149.168.194 (talk) 08:23, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Chill out man. There are very distinct differences in new Mexican food. First off, we came from the Spanish, who passed through America before Mexicans were even invented. Plus, we were so isolated because of the mountians, that our food sort of did evolve differently. And, we got hatch green chile. That might be the biggest factor 24.116.90.157 (talk) 01:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just no 

message: I encountered the statement "Within New Mexico, green chile is a popular ingredient in everything from enchiladas and burritos to cheeseburgers, french fries, bagels, and pizzas, and is added to the standard menu of many national American food chains", which begs for a citation from a reliable source. National food chains (whether fast food like McDonald's or KFC, or traditional restaurants such as The Olive Garden or TGI Friday's work to ensure a uniform menu exists everywhere, so that it doesn't matter whether you are in Seattle, Miami, Boston, San Diego, Chicago, or Albuquerque, the choices are uniform and the food will taste the same in all locations. If a cite can be found to substantiate the claim that New Mexican locations of national restaurants add chiles to their regular menu, please supply it. Otherwise, I will remove this portion of the statement in a week or so. Horologium (talk) 12:59, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know where you got this notion, but it's very easily proven incorrect. McDonald's offers a green chile cheeseburger and hamburger in most of New Mexico (though it does not in Texas), and Sonic sells green chile cheese tots (where the New Mexican green chile replaces the typical Texas Chili offering). Another example would be Domino's providing green chile as a topping on their pizza, easily verifiable by ordering online with a New Mexican zipcode. I do not understand those of you that obviously have not spent any appreciable amount of time in the state representing yourself as regional food authorities. For that matter, regional items making an appearance on national chain menus are a common occurrence. 173.185.94.187 (talk) 09:50, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious claim needs to be cited or removed 

message: "In the early twenty-first century, green chile also become increasingly available outside of New Mexico."
Please, oh, please!  A green chile is just one that hasn't ripened.  Green chiles, the pods, have been available all over the world for as long as the plants have been cultivated.  Green chile, the sauce and meat/beans stuff, has been available in Mexico and the Southwest of the United States, AT LEAST, for a very long time.  So, anyway you interpret it, the above quoted statement is erroneous.  I removed it as, not only is it wrong, but it is of no significance (even were it true).  Zlama (talk) 11:14, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It is true. Green Chile is a specific variant of chile. While other chiles do change green before ripening, green Chile is a very different BIOLOGICAL variant, thanks to our higher elevation. I would expect you to do some research before you start blabbing your mouth off on a respectable website. 24.116.90.157 (talk) 01:15, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  green chili avaliable outside New Mexico 

message: The "Chile and other ingredients" section of the article has been expanded with what appears to be original research and also includes material better suited for a cookbook, which Wikipedia is not. The section needs citations to support its statements and also editing to remove the cookbook/recipe portions. Feel free to edit and/or discuss here. Geoff |  Who, me? 15:20, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I did a bit of an overhauling pass.  Still needs more and better sourcing, but the OR, PoV, and how-to material has been removed.  I also clarified various entries, did  markup, moved content to more logical places in the article, compressed out redundancy, normalized the citations and dates to a single style, made various markup and style corrections, did a bunch of copyediting and link cleanup, and added a few notes (e.g. there weren't entries on basics like corn (maize) and cumin, FFS!).   This is about 10% of the cleanup this needs, but most of the material is now source even if not yet sourc, and that's good enough for WP:V purposes for the short term.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:35, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Terrific. I've started adding cites, replacing dead links with fresh, etc. I'll work on tightening the language, as well. Cheers! Geoff |  Who, me? 15:35, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chile and other ingredients 

message: The "fish" statement in the New_Mexican_cuisine#Popular_foods_and_dishes section refers to the use by Native Americans of shellfish. Historically, that is clearly recorded for the peoples living near the ocean and large bodies of freshwater from which freshwater shellfish were harvested, but for New Mexico? Not so much, I think. But I'm interested in sources which support this statement, if there are any to be found. Geoff |  Who, me? 17:31, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shellfish? 

message: I can see how some of the links that were removed in this edit, such as the link to cuisine, weren't necessary, but I think it's helpful to keep links to all related cuisines mentioned in the article. Are there links to all of them elsewhere in the article, and if not, should the links be restored? If not, why not? I thought Wikipedia's bias was toward linking almost everything. What constitutes overlinking in an encyclopedia article, other than linking every instance of an already-linked term? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:05, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links to related cuisines 

message: Hello all, I have added a few images to the article, swapped out two images (the one of ristras, and the horno image), and have begun doing some clean up. I mostly intend to work on the "Foods & dishes" section to alphabetize and add citations. If anyone objects to the new images just let me know. I would also like to add a new image of NM dried red chiles if that is ok, I think I will be able to find something a bit more exciting. Netherzone (talk) 23:09, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added images and a little clean up