Talk:Atil

message: "...and there is good reason to believe that the site in the Volga delta has been engulfed by the Caspian Sea." 
One would like to know what is this "good reason"... --Magabund 13:44, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Old talk

message: *In what language does Atil mean "big river"?  Is there a source for this somewhere?
—Firespeaker 23:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: sources

message: Some Finnish historians have come to conclusion that the Turkish-Tatar names Atil and Itil are
borrowings from Old Perma (Permian) or Proto Sum-Ukri (Uhri) names for air directions Itä /Itälä (i-tä / i-tä-lä ) meaning "East" and Ete / Etelä (e-te / e-te-lä) meaning "South" and still in use in Finland.
Please compare to map. From nowadays Tamunetz (south of Nizhnij Novgorod) Volga turns to the
eastern direction to nowadays Kazan (Qazan) where it turns sharply to southern direction to the lands of Etel (Sumeri) whose king was legendary Etana (E-ta-na) who went to Ma-na-la or Tuo-ne-la (The Realm of Deaths) with connection with Is-tar request. Compare to ancient Kalevala myths in Finnish Mythology. Connections to Osiris and Istar myths.
Nowadays Finnish word etana = slug / snail can be connected to river in "(joki joka) etenee etanan vauhdilla etelään" = (a river which) flows at a snail´s pace to south. Indeed a good describtion to Volga. We have to remember that name describes always something parallel to nature in old Finno Ugrian languages.
If this theory is the correct one, the names dates from ancient Sumerian period which corresponds the early Finno Ugrian (Sum Ukri) peoples known history in the area. There are many names which starts Sum or are even named Sumeria / Sumerlja on the Volga Heightland west of the river, the "alkukoti" = begin homeplace (Urheimat) for Mirde = Merdi = Mordva peoples in addition to the other Finno Ugrian peoples which inhabited that vast area such like Mari-el, Ud-murt, Komi-mort and Ukri-murt.
The name koti (home) is derived from ancient Saame (Sam people) name "kota" which is nearly similar than wigam used by the ancient American Indians. In addition there lived also ancestors of Sam peoples (Saami and Nenetsi) in the area. However, latest DNA research show the connection of Sam people to Ibers (6000 BC) and Ber-Ber (9000 BC) in nowadays Maghrab countries. Some "wild" theories even suggest the connection with Tu-a-re-ki (Tuaregh) people now living in Sa-ha-ra (Sahara) = Sak-ka-ra (Sakkara) = Egypt and in sub Saharan areas.
May I point out that the origin of Finno Ugrian peoples are much older than the Indo European peoples. Compare to I-tel-men / I-tel-mes (could be directly transliterated to Itäinen mies (Eastern Man) in Kam tshatka (Kym / Kymi / Kem / Kemi / Kam / Kama = (Great) River, Tshatka (Russian) = Rapu = Crayfish ie. Peninsula of Cryfish Rivers) the transliteration in Finnish language: Rapujokien niemimaa or according to other version Lohijokien niemimaa ( The Peninsula of Lax fish.)
The same folk lores and myths exist from Eastern Finland to Uluk Khem (Ylinen Kemi) = upper course of great river. Russian Jenisei is derived from Enentsi seita (Netentsi Seita). Seita is the holy stone totemi or sacred stone formation by the Saame / Nenentsi peoples. The word Samojedi is derived from Turkic / Mongol "man eater", the describtion given to Nenentsis by Mongol (Ta-ta) tribe who were defeated in the fierce battles against these "half men, half animals" in the area of Uluk Khem (Upper Jenisei). The first defeates they suffered against their opponents on their way toward western direction.
The Mirde = Merdi = Mordva name for Volga is Rav / Rava. Rav / Rava was the fairy in Mordovian mythology of this (great) river, = lej (Erza) läj (Moksha). (Valkea / Valgia etc. in Finno Ugric = White River.) Kama is the Great River in Perma. Mongols used name Yellow River for Volga. 
No other languages can provide such direct links than old Finno Ugrian languages to the ancient past.
Ai-nut (The Only Ones) and Ko-re-a (Beatifully Handsome) are can also be transliterated through Finno Ugrian languages to show some understandable meaning for these names.
Most of the scholars neglete or reject these for simple reason. The main sin in Finnish minds, the jealousy (Because I did not discover this it cannot be approved), or for foreign scholars the missing complete knowledge of Finno Ugrian languages and their various dialects.
Regards  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.115.119.14 (talk) 08:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin For Name Atil / Itil

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