Talk:Anthony Bennett (Veritas politician)

message: OK I have spent a while today cleaning up this article so that it reads more like a wikipedia article than an advert for Tony Bennett. I knew very little certainly about some of the content. However, it has also been clear that some information that could and should have been included has previously been kept out of the article. Also there were many claims made that whilst I would not say they were untrue, they were certainly distorting or bending the truth slightly so as to make the subject of this article appear more favourable. The Stuart Lubbock section I knew nothing about, but unfortunately now do. I have tried again with that section to make it way more balanced than it was previously. I have searched for and added additional sources, and also cleaned up how the sources are inserted. Which then leads on of course to other articles connected with the subject of this article, Tony Bennett such as the article about Stuart Lubbock and others which really do also need cleaning up if they are anyway similar to this. I had already cleaned up the CountyWatch article which also previously just read as an advert for the group.
If as I no doubt have, made any mistakes, please correct them. I need a rest now... ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 00:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean up

message: I have taken the liberty of moving the hugely long messages that were placed on here to Tony Bennetts user page as most of the content was general comments about various aspects of wikipedia and about not just one article but different articles. The content was clogging up this page with discussion of stuff that was not relevant to this article specifically and given the lengthy messages I felt it was best to simply move it in its entireity rather than picking out bits and pieces, as they were mainly questions, comments, criticisms raised by one user that are best dealt with on that users own talk page. The content can be found in full, here - User talk:Tony Bennett. ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 21:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments moved

message: Why has Solicitor, been replaced with Rights Adviser, for Anthony Bennett?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.221.173 (talk) 14:16, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Was the occupation change made by Mr Bennett?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.221.173 (talk) 21:57, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see WP:BLP. Subjects of articles are perfectly entitled to edit articles about themselves.♦Tangerines♦·Talk 22:01, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Occupation name change

message: I've protected this article for a week against non-autoconfirmed editors who just do not seem to understand our policy on reliable sources and especially in relation to biographies; these policues are not negotiatable. Edits may be requested during this time using the  template, but in no way is this article going to become a venue for soapboxing. Any editor may also request comments on a proposed source here . --Rodhullandemu 21:32, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I just requested protection.  I guess our bullshit barometers are in sync.  --Dynaflow babble 21:34, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: Harlowsafe history doesn't mention mr Bennett, the link shows a page that's recently edited 
Last amended by Cliff Moore on Tuesday March 03, 2009
http://www.harlowsave.coop/
http://www.harlowsave.coop/history.html
So I think it's best to either remove that information or find a reliable source.
22:17, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In relation to the other stuff, it's minor, and wouldn't object if it went. --Rodhullandemu 22:38, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harlowsafe (note 6 url) 

message: While I agree that mentioning Madeleine McCann in the introductory section of the article without following it up is not strictly correct, I think it better that the article be reworked and so the contents list would read:
:4.	Private prosecutions
::4.1	Death of Stuart Lubbock
::4.2	Disappearance of Madeleine McCann
The paragraph concerning Stuart Lubbock in the introduction would be replaced by “Bennett started private prosecutions against Michael Barrymore in connection with the death of Stuart Lubbock and against Gerry and Kate McCann in respect of the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.”
The section concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann would then be reinstated (and possibly expanded) at §4.2.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.165.213.18 (talk) 08:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Madeleine McCann 

message: Anthony Bennett has taken a serious undertaking that he is not allowed to post, give links, encourage or allow his peers to post the aforementioned, on any website, which defames or libels the McCanns.
Mr Bennett has recently been posting very very libellous postings in a supposed private forum.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.157.211 (talk) 21:43, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthony Bennett And Carter Ruck 

message: Most of the article "Active Resistance to Metrication" is about a single person, Bennett. However, two sentences within it purport to be about a group, beyond Bennett, and (until you get to the notes) aren't obviously sourced to ARM itself. These are:
#Active Resistance to Metrication (ARM) is a British pressure group, founded in June 2001 opposed to metrication in the United Kingdom.
#ARM are known for direct action tactics such as the removing or amending of road and footpath signs whose measurements are expressed in metric units only, which ARM says are illegal.
The first is sourced to a page at bbc.co.uk. The only mention of ARM within it is this:
:Tony Bennett, who founded a group called Active Resistance to Metrication, was arrested six times, charged three times but only given one conviction, for which he received an absolute discharge.
Thus we have a reliable source for the claim that ARM, whatever it may be, was founded by Bennett. But for no more than that.
The second is sourced to ARM, not a disinterested source, so it doesn't count.
Google News provides zero hits for news coverage of ARM.
As no disinterested information has been adduced to suggest that ARM has any significance beyond Bennett, the article "Active Resistance to Metrication" gives a misleading impression. It should be turned into a redirect to the article on Bennett. -- Hoary (talk) 01:07, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no problems.  Bennett is certianly the mouthpiece for ARM. Martinvl (talk) 08:14, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems an entirely logical proceudre to me. Emeraude (talk) 18:07, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

text: Could you please ensure that the link to the ARM website is in the Tony Bennett article. Martinvl (talk) 14:07, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see why it's necessary, though I'm willing to be persuaded to the contrary. -- Hoary (talk) 14:59, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Having mentioned an organisation, iti s often a good idea to publish the link to that organisation so that people can form their own opinions. Moreover, somebody might want to get in touch with Bennett, or if they see the name "Tony Bennett", they can link the new reference with the Tony Bennett who is the founder of ARM (or alternatively check that it is not him). Martinvl (talk) 16:03, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that this is what a search engine is for; but if you want to add the link to "ARM" under "External links", go ahead. -- Hoary (talk) 01:22, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal

message: Wouldn't he be better described/disambiguated as a "campaigner"? His profile, such as it is, rests more on his activities in relation to Stuart Lubbock/Michael Barrymore and the McCann case than it does on his reputation or stature as a politician of any serious sort. When it comes to party politics proper, according to the article he was once a local councillor about 40 years ago, which is the sum total of any formal positions he's held; other than that, he's held a few internal party posts in fringe groups over the years. N-HH talk/edits 13:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: A good point, but I have known of this person for many years as a politician and/or political party organiser. His "campaigning" is a relatively recent departure after he seems to have given up trying to make it as a politician. I think (poitician) sums up his career better than (campaigner) would, but in any case it's really rather redundant. The brackets are only there to distinguish him from other people with the same name and no one is going to type in the bracketed to find him. Emeraude (talk) 13:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: But the parentheticals in a page title inevitably, even if unintentionally, confer some kind of semi-formal status on people. Plus, more practically, we do need to use the best/clearest description we can that will help aim people to the page they are looking for, whether via the drop-down options that come up or on the main disambiguation page. As for which is the best such description, it's surely hard to argue that, objectively, his profile is greatest because of his Barrymore and McCann activities, and that his actions there are indeed those of a "campaigner" rather than of a "politician"? N-HH talk/edits 13:54, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Barrymore/McCann is certainly what he is known for most recently (if he is known!?), but those are recent examples of his political activity. We need to cover the whole of his biography, not just the most recent. As I said, my knowledge of him (speaking as a political scientist) is through his involvement in a variety of political parties and political campaigns predating these by a long way. I'd suggest that Barrymore/McCann are developments of his political career. It's worth looking at versions of the article before January 2006 and the Barrymore case. Emeraude (talk) 15:13, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Would it not be better to disambiguate him by using his full name? Martinvl (talk) 22:06, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Only if readers are going to type in his full name looking for an article, which I doubt. Emeraude (talk) 07:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: On the contrary - readers would usually go to Tony Bennett and from there to the disambiguation page  Anthony Bennett.  In either case they would get to this page via a disambiguation page. Martinvl (talk) 07:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed: that's how I got here, and when I got to the disambiguation page I was confused by which page was actually about this guy, since, as discussed, he is best known – to me at least, and I suspect most other people, if he is known at all – as "Tony Bennett" and as a campaigner or something like that; not as the "politician" with the name "Anthony Bennett". If you type in Tony Bennett, you don't even get the option via the drop-down suggestions of coming straight here; not only do you have to navigate through this three-stage process but struggle with an obscure name and description as you do so. Having him as "Tony Bennett (campaigner)" would surely make him easier to find for most people. N-HH talk/edits 11:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

text: When you say "full name", do you mean literally "Anthony John Stuart Bennett"? That would surely compound rather than solve the underlying problems - yes it would mean we wouldn't need a possibly contentious parenthetical description for disambiguation but it would make the title even less recognisable (which, after all, is a key requirement of WP:TITLE). N-HH talk/edits 12:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I do mean "Anthony John Stuart Bennett", it might not solve the problem, but it certainly won't compound it.  Lets face it, this article gets very few hits, most people will go for "Tony Bennett" (which we can't use) or "Anthony Bennett" which takes them straight to the disambiguation page.  Whatever we use, most readers will have to navigate their way in so the most neutral way is to use his full name. Martinvl (talk) 13:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the problem as I expressed it was about lack of recognisability and the difficulty of navigating to the page due to the fact that the current title uses a less commonly seen/used version of his name and a more obscure parenthetical description. It seems rather obvious that switching to an even less commonly seen/used version of his name and removing any form of description at all compounds that fundamental problem as well as not solving it. It would also rather obviously go against naming policy and guidelines. Obviously the Tony Bennett page will keep that title, but having this guy at "Tony Bennett (campaigner)" will at least enable people typing Tony Bennett into the search box to see that name/title in the drop down options and click to this page immediately - that doesn't happen currently and would not happen with your proposal. And if they still end up taking the alternative route via the Anthony/Tony Bennett disambiguation page, at least the name there for this page will more clearly and immediately identify this person, with or without any additional description (which I agree should be added to the disambiguation page regardless). N-HH talk/edits 14:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I had forgotten about going in via Google, so I have no objections to the change of name of the artcile. Martinvl (talk) 15:56, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant the internal WP search box, whereby you get the option of all the other Tony Bennetts but not this one. I'm wondering whether to be bold and move it or whether it needs a more formal RM - there's no ringing endorsement so far for my suggestion, after all ... N-HH talk/edits 16:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page title - "politician" 

message: I'm grateful to Boson for notifying me of the reappearance of an article on "Active Resistance to Metrication". (The article is currently at Active resistance to metrication.)
As you'll see above (and in its own history), "Active Resistance to Metrication" was previously redirected to this article on Bennett. I suggested this and nobody opposed it. 
Of course it was imaginable that "Active Resistance to Metrication" would come to have increased significance and coverage and would then merit an article. It now has an article. This lists six sources. One is "Active Resistance to Metrication" itself; the others are:
*"The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002" (legislation.gov.uk)
*"Anti-Metric Sign Activist Faces Trial" (Cybercast News Service via Wayback): About Bennett; but it does also say: Bennett now operates an independent group, Active Resistance to Metrication (ARM). He said the organization had a list of 15 supporters prepared to alter or take down metric signs "as a last resort." ARM has "corrected" more than 1,100 metric signs around Britain, Bennett said.
*"Will we ever go completely metric?" (BBC): Contains two short paragraphs about Bennett, within which we read that he founded a group called Active Resistance to Metrication (about which we are told nothing whatever).
*"'Imperial vigilante' wins legal appeal" (BBC): About Bennett; doesn't mention "ARM"
*"'Imperial vigilante' guilty of theft" (BBC): About Bennett; doesn't mention "ARM"
So from sources independent of "Active Resistance to Metrication" itself that are cited in the article, we learn:
* Bennett founded ARM.
* In early 2002 (when the "Cybercast News Service" article was published), Bennett operated ARM.
* In early 2002 (ditto), ARM was "independent". (The context strongly suggests that "independence" here means independence of UKIP.)
And that's all.
Slim pickings indeed. I suggest that (1) the current article on ARM is written in such a way as to suggest a significance for ARM that no sources yet adduced for the article back up; and therefore that (2) the current article on ARM should be turned back into a redirect to Bennett. 
In the next few minutes, I shall notify the user who resuscitated the article (and any other user who subsequently edited it) to this discussion. -- Hoary (talk) 01:40, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't object to redirecting it again to here. A couple of brief news reports do not establish notability, especially when focused on the one person anyway. And while they may yet expand their repertoire, I can't help but notice that the relatively new user who recreated it kicked off a brief WP career with some quite bold edits on this topic, and hasn't really looked at much else besides. That said, as the ARM page does currently exist, it might be better to go through a formal AFD or something. N-HH talk/edits 08:56, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: "Active Resistance to Metrication", again

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Anthony Bennett (politician). Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add  after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://archive.thisislancashire.co.uk/2005/11/15/875975.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 13:23, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Anthony Bennett (politician). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111003184323/http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/talk-about-anything/56539-tony-bennett-guilty-conduct-unbefitting-solicitor.html to http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/talk-about-anything/56539-tony-bennett-guilty-conduct-unbefitting-solicitor.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100823225057/http://www.harlowsave.coop/history.html to http://www.harlowsave.coop/history.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060827100838/http://www.rogers.cwc.net/DTF-History.html to http://www.rogers.cwc.net/DTF-History.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:55, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Anthony Bennett (politician). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930160219/http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/search/display.var.1564420.0.website_cleared_over_homophobic_content.php to http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/search/display.var.1564420.0.website_cleared_over_homophobic_content.php
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:35, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified