Talk:Tsetse fly

message: === Requested move to Tsetse from current Tsetse fly ===
The older usage is antiquated and redundant, see the second paragraph of the current page for details. We don't talk about jaguar mammals no need for the redundant fly. The usage of tsetse fly is a classic example of the early incomplete incorporation of a foreign word.  Part of the role of an encyclopedia is to clarify the meaning and usage of words and ideas—the suggested move would serve in that role. —acuster 22:03, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've commented on this points at your Talk page.  — mark ✎ 23:14, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues with Edits to the Text 

message: The older usage is antiquated and redundant, see the second paragraph of the current page for details. We don't talk about jaguar mammals no need for the redundant fly. The usage of tsetse fly is a classic example of the early incomplete incorporation of a foreign word.  Part of the role of an encyclopedia is to clarify the meaning and usage of words and ideas—the suggested move would serve in that role. —acuster 22:03, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've commented on this points at your Talk page.  — mark ✎ 23:14, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move to '''Tsetse''' from current ''Tsetse fly'' 

message: i wanted to make an extra cell for parasite reservoirs, but
i never get into this HTML. m.20050429
Hello,
Thanks for trying to contribute but please take a little more care with this page. I have reverted your edits for the reasons detailed below (confusing layout, incomplete information, incorrect table construction, adding to an already large table). Your edits are truely focused on the nature of the disease rather than the fly. Affected animals relate to the economic importance of the vector whereas the reservoir species are not directly related to tsetse but more to the dynamics of the disease. I would encourage you to edit the Trypanosomiasis page instead.
Your edits use a confusing layout. The use of the slash symbol "/" does not make the table any more understandable. 
Your edits only targeted two rows out of the whole table. Adding this partial information makes the entry less "encyclopedic". It's better to leave partial information out in order to maintain the clarity of the information which is present rather than trying to cram into the entry a whole lot of disjointed pieces of information.
The table, as you have left it, was not correctly formated. Perhaps this is what your comment above was intended to mean. Please, if you are going to participate, take the time to communicate clearly what you are doing. I really can't be sure what your comment above is supposed to mean. 
The table is already large, possibly too big, and your additions do not help the situation. I would suggest designing a new table to convey the information you are trying to get across or, as suggested above, that you expand another entry such as Trypanosomiasis or create a new page, such as Animal Trypanosomiasis (Nagana)
For now, I have reverted your changes. Acuster 00:27, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The disease, host and vector table 

message: Hello acuster (and others ?),
Thank you for Your intense work on this article, i think its already an excellent one.
avc> Thanks, and thanks for your interest.
*I still think that the relation: glossina species / natural host - "accidental" host - reservoir host is fundamental for the understanding of tsetse ecology (and so for disease epidemiology also), but I agree we can add this table later when probably more facts are gathered from newest sources. Meanwhile I have put some older data on the german site.
avc> Yes, this is important. Belongs in the not yet existing 'ecology' section.
I have a lot of questions and remarks:
*First, I find the coloured graphic most misleading. A short time visitor will keep this picture in his head and loose his precaution with tsetse who are looking much more colourless.The pic might have motivated someone at  http://flexicon.doccheck.com/ to include the photo of a normal fly as a tsetse ! See colourless pic on the german wikipedia page, please.
avc> I'm not too worried. The colour graphic pre-dates my contributions and I suspect it's standard for species pages.
*The size of a tsetse ?
avc> "large" :-) Actually, one would wish we had data on this for every species but no. I can't even place them in order although I have come up with a working hierarchy of the common species in the literature. Their sizes range from that of a small house-fly to that of a large horse fly  (although horse flies are less thin and elongated than tsetse.
*The life span of tsetse ?
avc> Females are known to have survived 270 days in the lab but the average longevity in the wild is probably much shorter. There are some new articles by John Hargrove that I need to read to be able to make a good statement about the life span. No one knows for sure so we have to do experiments and try to figure this out which is quite hard, one of the hardest questions about tsetse and critical to understand the change in numbers of the  populations.
*I would like to know, if a blood licking tsetse also sits with her wings folded. - If so, it should be expressed. By the way, left wing on right wing or the other way ?
avc> yes. The resting position is assumed whenever they are not flying. Don't know which is on top and if that is always the same in every species, but it's a question that has occurred to me. I'll ask around.
*I have opposing informations how tsetse get attracted to / find hosts!
german wiki says by visual sight only !
http://flexicon.doccheck.com/ says olfactory/ Co2, Azeton, Octanal only !
avc> We are not sure. A current model (Hargrove and Packer, 1993, Bull Ent Res. 83:29-46) sets this up in two ways. First they make see a host nearby and fly to feed on them directly. Second, they may fly around, find an odour plume and fly upwind to the host. It seems like both are possible and therefore both probably happen. In what ratios, and what other methods of host finding exist, we don't know.
*It is mentioned on the german zebra wiki, that they got their stripes by evolutional selection,
because tsetse cannot see them with their facette eyes, so i would like to add the frequence/ number of facettes of the tsetse eye.
avc> That sounds like a nice, but probably false, idea. Probably if you see zebra at dusk in the dry season in the grasslands, the stripes are perfect cammouflage. The question about eyes probably belongs on the general insect page or on a separate page because the compound eye of the insect is fascinating. I've never seen any info particular to tsetse. "lots" ;-)
*I read somewhere, that tsetse are very elastic insects, hard to beat eaven by the tail of an animal.
The force to hit a tsetse should be described.
avc> The elastic part is generally about their 'teneral' state---just after they emerge from the ground as new adults. Until they feed, they are very soft and have other characteristics that are 'elastic'. That they are hard to kill with an animal tail only makes sense since that's one thing they have been dealing with for a few million years. The force to kill a fly? It's the same as for other flies. A fly swatter will kill a tsetse. They are big flies and so it takes a good hit but they are not particularly different from other flies.
*Please i am very interested about the symbionts, because this is the case also found in the
vectors of american trypanosomiasis, and they have a virus also.
avc> I don't know much about this yet. I've seen lots of pieces but have not yet tried to understand how they fit together.
*Do tsetses have deseases, parasites and natural enemies ?
avc> Yes. Birds, ants, fungi, and other things eat them. However, there is not a lot understood about this yet and I have not yet gotten a good feel for this. Belongs in the 'Ecology' section which I hope to write.
* From (German) Meyers Lexikon 1909:
"Tsetse.... are most abundant in the rain season, but always on strictly bordered, often only some hundred meters wide streches, between them there are completely tsetse-free tracts. 
They  .....  stiching particularly at an overcast sky and humid air."
Is this still confirmed ?
avc> No. You have to understand that before 1909 moving around Africa was *hard.* Scientists tended to work in one particular area. That sounds like a description of "riverine" flies which do indeed stick closely to the rivers. Will be part of the 'ecology' section.
* If there is a reliable repellent for humans, it should be mentioned ( DEET ? ).
avc> Well, the colonial brits believed that wearing nice, clean, pressed, very white  (the only important part) suits would reduce their appeal. I picture this somewhat ironically as the conclusion of a different historical period full of its presumptions, biases, race relations, economic disparities and other complexities. I don't know of any substance that acts reliably as a 'repellant' but a physical barrier (well manitained mosquito net) will always work. There are large campaings to spray houses with DDT throughout the continent against mosquitoes and probably this also kills tsetse but I have no idea if it repels them.
Thank you, m. 20050507
avc> Thanks for your interest. Adrian Custer, August 6th 2005, Valldemossa, Spain.
----------------
Thank you for your extensive answers. I will answer later.
For now I want to document usefull links here, which i would like to read if i had more time.
nearly forget this one:
* His books are well written:  http://stevefrank.org/  Immunology and Evolution of Infectious Disease 
*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi    search for glossina.
*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pmc  search for glossina.
--213.7.155.173 04:32, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miscelaneous Questions and Discussion about Tsetse 

message: That blurb about "tsetse fly" being "a redundancy" was cute, but wrong. There are many kinds of flies in this world, and most of them are named in English with a descriptive name + "fly", e.g. "blowfly", "housefly", "horsefly", "mayfly", etc. Thus "tsetse fly" is a good English name for this African insect, and "tsetse" alone is not at all likely to "become dominant" outside of the research community. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.39.182.234 (talk • contribs) .
:No, I think it is right. Translated from Tswana, "tsetse fly" means "fly fly", which is redundant because "fly" is repeated (they are just in two different languages). It's like saying "pizza pie", redundant because "pizza" comes from an Italian word meaning "pie". Schzmo 21:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: Have parasitoids been identified - is their literature ? -
What other natural enemies ? nematodes, spiders, ruminants ? greetings from the part time nerd. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.58.163.231 (talk) 02:15, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Parasitoid]]

message: I've removed the reference to the Neil Gaiman stories in the fiction section.  That "sleeping sickness" was Encephalitis lethargica, and nothing to do with trypanosomiasis  Rojomoke (talk) 10:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neil Gaiman's Sandman 

message: I came across this article http://www.johanfoto.com/Site/Pages/WorldMagazine.html which claims that the tsetse fly has a particular preference for biting . . .  and that the preference for large areas of dark hide is postulated in the article as one reason why zebra has such prominent markings . . it confuses the tsetse fly. 
I notice that the WP article does not contain any reference to this and the Zebra reference.
I am reluctant to add the reference as I am no expert in these matters, but I wonder if there is someone who is more expert than me can either confirm this is a likely thing or believes it is possible and thinks the article might benefit from its mention. --Tom (talk) 06:55, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  biting preferences 

message: I found a very good website that has information from a 1999 study on the distribution done by the FAO and DFID.  I'm not sure if their maps are in the public domain, however, but you can look at them here: http://ergodd.zoo.ox.ac.uk/livatl2/tsetse.htm
I created a range map and uploaded it, based on the distribution found on this map created by the above website:
http://ergodd.zoo.ox.ac.uk/livatl2/images/alltsespno.jpg
If, in the future, permission is granted to use the above map instead of the one that I created (or other professionally created map), please replace it.
Mba123 (talk) 18:38, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distribution 

message: Is tik tik a common name for this fly?  I have looked at many articles about this fly and have tried to find a reference to it being called "tik tik," which is certainly possible is some areas, but I have found nothing to verify it.  I took this out of the article because of poor wording and lack of verifiability. Someone other than me and also questioned its validity with a fact tag previously.   Recently, all the instances of tsetse have been replaced with "tsetse or tik tik" in some cases messing up page formatting, but still not providing the requested source.  It is fine if this is a common name for this fly.  But so far we only have Wikipedia saying so.  The argument cannot be circular.  What I suspect, however, is that the editor is also not reading talk pages...
If tik tik is indeed a common name, it can be mentioned in the article.  I don't think it needs to be mentioned every time the word tsetse is used, and it shouldn't be included on link pages because it breaks the links (there is no page called tsetse or tik tik).  Please provide a source.
Mba123 (talk) 21:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect some of the names are anglicizations of indigenous names to make for easier pronunciation, so there are likely to be several pronunciations of the same name. Wapondaponda (talk) 21:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly.  Since this is a pretty common pest in the area where it lives, I can only imagine there must me several such variations pronunciation by different groups who live with this pest.  So, I can't see how it would be productive to list them all.  Perhaps mentioning the fact (if it is true) that such differences exist.  I don't have a reference and I looked for one before I removed this one, but couldn't find one.  So the burden of proof is on the person who insists on calling it a tik tik, correct? Mba123 (talk) 22:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tsetse or Tik Tik? 

message: The edit history from the last three or four years bear withess of a few edits in the same direction by a few editors, who seem to share the opinion that any dating of geological strata as older than a few thousand years must be erroneous. In one case, there was an explicit insertion of the "information" that the older dating is wrong, since the earth is only five to six thousand years old.
I do understand that these matters are very close to the heart for some believers in the literary truth of some genealogies in Genesis; but, still, the referenced source simply states that the fossile beds in question were put down 34.07 million years ago, and by Wikipedia standards, this is what we should claim in the article.  I therefore would like any watchers of this article to keep their eyes open for renewed attempts to modify this dating based on Genesis rather than the quoted sources. JoergenB (talk) 14:51, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suspected 'Young Earther' edits. 

message: Already back in 1932, Dickie was writing about the impact of the Tsetse in African History. McKelvey's article in 1973 was just one of many relating the fly to historical developments. More recently, historian Donald Wright has given the insect quite the space in his latest book titled, "The World and a Very Small Place in Africa: A History of Globalization in Niumi, the Gambia." A section on this topic would make this article even better. I will help if there is interest to collaborate. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 23:20, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: The Tsetse in history?

message: I just added a section to the bottom of the main page regarding the Tsetse fly's effect on early state formation in Africa. It is a very interesting topic when you consider that the author's hypothesis is that a tiny fly may have altered African history and development for hundreds of years. I linked the source of the information, and would like to note that anyone who is interested in finding out more should check out the environmental determinism page for similar theories. 
Kevinmccarthy25 (talk) 18:51, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting, but even tinier things have altered the course of history. JuanTamad (talk) 19:08, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Effect on Societal Development

message: On reviewing the FAO map , I have to agree that the range extends less far into the South than I believed, and that "tropical" covers the distribution by about 99%. Sorry about that. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:29, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distribution / "tropical" 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Tsetse fly. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050409122056/http://www.africa-union.org/Structure_of_the_Commission/depPattec.htm to http://www.africa-union.org/Structure_of_the_Commission/depPattec.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120227040712/http://www.mosquitocatalog.org/files/pdfs/045050-0.pdf to http://www.mosquitocatalog.org/files/pdfs/045050-0.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070606225734/http://www.lshtm.ac.uk/pmbu/lttrn/ to http://www.lshtm.ac.uk/pmbu/lttrn
*Added archive https://archive.is/20130104081354/http://www.nzitrap.com/index.htm to http://www.nzitrap.com/index.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090301142911/http://ergodd.zoo.ox.ac.uk/livatl2/tsetse.htm to http://ergodd.zoo.ox.ac.uk/livatl2/tsetse.htm
*Added  tag to http://www.cabi-publishing.org/bookshop/BookDisplay.asp?SubjectArea=Hum&Subject=Public+Health+and+Communicable+Diseases&PID=1406
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:44, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Regarding the edit made around February of 2019 with the reference “Inventing Africa”. The reference is just an article from an early 2000’s magazine, hosted on a university website. The information added from the article appears to be largely unsubstantiated claims and the article only has a couple references to obscure publications without note. Dzrrat (talk) 13:31, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Was skimming this page and also felt something wrong with it, added at least some better citation needed tags. Also I really think the paragraph about this in the opening section should be removed, it doesn't belong there at all even if they were actually verified claims--188.86.44.219 (talk) 12:40, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit with speculative information 

message: I removed  after over 11 years. Given the number of citations, I assume a lot have been added since then. This article needs a few more but the problem is mostly remedied. Invasive Spices (talk) 19:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maintenance template removal