Talk:1. FC Saarbrücken

message: Why the "1." in the name? --euyyn 22:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In German its "Erster" (English, first) and is a common naming convention for German football teams. If you root through the list of clubs from the country, you'll see several examples. It often boils down to a little oneupmanship, tagging yourself as a city's number one side. Sometimes the 1. is associated with the first club established in a city, but not always. Wiggy! 23:48, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 1.

message: The article's viewpoint regarding the region's political status appears to me to be very far from a neutral point of view. Even if it agrees in sentiment with the vast majority of that area's residents, this article distorts the history of the team's location (official political territory). Its detour into politics seems to contradict or at least ignore half of the region's history. The list of historical (and verifiable) points presented below is not intended to replace the pro-German stance, but to suggest mollifying it. However, I do agree though that this is a rare case where the region's politics are directly relevant to its football team.
Wikipedia policy requires an impartial tone (WP:IMPARTIAL), which is certainly transgressed when only presenting one opinion (WP:BALANCE), presenting unsourced opinions of what might have happened but didn't, like "seeing a German side romp through the [French First division]" (WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV), or by only expressing one opinion (however mainstream) (WP:UNDUE) that differs from the verifiable fact (WP:VERIFY), like "the German state of Saarland" to describe the area at a time when it was administered as a protectorate France, but had its own national team, and was an independent FIFA member (WP:POVNAMING). For example, I consider it important to note that support for this club when it was within the French football system was the reason that Jules Rimet (FIFA World Cup founder) resigned from French football administration. It is hard to properly explain team-related events such as that, if you make the easily-refuted claim that the team was in Germany at the time. There are a small number of non-political biases too, such as dead last (WP:CLICHE).
The article's tone doesn't seem to agree with the history summarized by these verifiable points:
* Over a century before the football team, the area was part of the French Republic from its beginning on 22 September 1792, during the French Revolution of 1789-1799.
* Following 19th century independence from France, the area was not considered a single region. Parts of it were variously in the Kingdoms of Bavaria and Prussia, and in the Grand Duchy of Oldenberg.
* It became part of the German Empire from 1871 to 1918.
* The region was never part of the German Weimar Republic. In the period following the First World War, Saar was ruled under a League of Nations mandate by France and the UK from 1920 to 1935, issuing its own currency and stamps.
* It eventually became part of Germany's Third Reich at the end of a fifteen month integration period on 17 June 1936. The Second World War started just over three years later.
* After the Second World War, the area was a French protectorate again for over a decade, confirmed and recognised by the United Nations, USA, UK, and others.
* The area became part of West Germany for the first time on 1 January 1957 following terms of the Saar Treaty a couple of months earlier.
* The only territorial change since then was on the other side of West Germany when reunification with East Germany formed the current nation of Germany on 3 October 1990.
It should now be a little more obvious why the team spent more time in French football leagues than in German leagues for the first fifty years of its existence. The article's claim that the team and its players were "forced out" of a German league they were never in seems inaccurate at best, upon learning that the national association (Saarland) was an independent  member of FIFA at the time and the Saarland national team consisted primarily of this team's players.  The current territorial classification of the team as a part of Germany has its origin in he terms of the Saar Treaty of 27 October 1956 (the day I was born exactly 57 years ago "today"). The team has been in West Germany or Germany since the Saar Treaty came into effect on 1 January 1957.
ChrisJBenson (talk) 09:50, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutral Point of View?