Talk:Smith Wigglesworth

message: It is well established he claimed he could raise the dead   , and here it puts the claim at "raising fourteen dead people", and here it claims he raised his wife from the dead. Wiggelsworth also wrote books about raising the dead.
He had a daughter named Alice with a hearing loss . Here it claims he "frequently" prayed for his daughter's hearing loss. However, healing his daughter never occured. Never healed her ever. 
Stop removing cited sources. Arbusto 21:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It rather depends on what you mean by proven, doesn't it?  I would suggest that any claim of raising the dead which was scientifically proven after the mid-Victorian era would be the subject of legend and massive medical documentation. Just zis Guy you know? 21:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So I added the fraudster tag back in. Arbusto 21:55, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if you don't believe Wigglesworth's claims to have raised the dead, the fraudster category is still inappropriate as it's POV, so I'm going to remove it again. It should only really be applied to people who have been convicted of fraud by a court of law. (See The fraudsters category talk page). Jammycakes 13:34, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My humble opinion (this is a Christian speaking) about why Wigglesworth's daughter was never healed is GOD was testing him.  "Though he slay me still will I trust you".. Put another way.. Paul of the Bible had a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of satan to buffet him, to keep him humble.. maybe Mr. W's thorn in the flesh was his daughter's infirmity.. something to make him realize his total dependence on God, and that man could NEVER take  the glory for anything, even after all of the ppl that were healed and dead raised.  Just a thought.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.158.168.8 (talk) 06:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Raising the dead and daughter's hearing loss

message: I emailed the author of this website asking him to provide sources on his statements about Smith Wigglesworth and I received none. This website doesn't provide sources either. Just because you have a source for a statement doesn't make it necessarily true. Will someone address this issue, because I want to see better sources. Aaрон Кинни (t) 01:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no evidence that Wigglesworth ever raised anyone from the dead although several sources (including Frodsham's biography) claim he did.  It would not be POV to relate the fact that these unproven assertions were made by some.  I am surprised Word-Faith adherents have not tried to claim Wigglesworth as a forefather in this article or on the discussion page.  Actually, there are significant differences in theology between Wigglesworth and the faith movement.--Loudguy 00:36, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:RS gives guidelines on what are reliable sources and what aren't. Jammycakes 09:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Half the sources this article references don't provide sources themselves 

message: I have a friend who I discuss theology with and he is very into SW. The main thrust of who he was were his healings, mass conversions and raising folks from the dead. Why is there no mention of that here? Even if you do not agree.. something should be said about his claims. --DjSamwise 04:30, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NO information on this page?

message: See faith healing. Mainstream Christian theology holds that prayer is the appropriation of God’s power,  not a push button machine. Thus prayer only achieves positive results when it is done according to God’s will. This includes prayer for healing. Mainstream theology of Christian healing states that it is God who heals, not the faith healer himself. Claiming a gift of healing does not imply that everyone you pray for will get healed.
To show that a faith healer is a fraud, it is necessary to demonstrate that the faith healer is deliberately faking either the healings or the testimonies of the healings.
Thus statements that a faith healer could not heal his own daughter and was thus a fraud demonstrate faulty theology and a hostile POV to boot. I will edit the article to neutralise it. Raffles mk 01:17, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evaluating claims of healing according to mainstream Christian theology of healing 

message: Also regarding Wigglesworth's more incredible miracle claims — I've read the debate here, and here's what I have to say. I grew up hearing all about Smith Wigglesworth and these claims, and I think they're rather important to who he was and his reputation today. They need to be at least mentioned in the article, not excised completely just because some people don't believe them. Some people don't believe the stories about Christ himself, and there are no sources for his miracles but the Bible itself, yet you'll find oodles and oodles and articles about him here. So what I'm suggesting is not to include unproven, unprovable data, but rather to find some sources for these claims (as I see some people have been giving here) and write into the article language (perhaps even a whole section) describing these claims, but making it clear that that's just what they are — claims. —LonelyPilgrim 06:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree. The person who removed then did it to the detriment of the article and failure to heed the previous discussion. Arbustoo 05:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I second. There is no need for wikipedia to investigate the (il/)legitimacy of the miracle claims (especially the more fantastic ones). Just mention the claims he is known for and as there are disagreements, just summarize the cited opposing viewpoints.97.81.103.230 (talk) 03:20, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miracle claims should at least be mentioned 

message: An image used in this article, File:Wigglesworth.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 17 June 2012 
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thread_title: File:Wigglesworth.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: The entire section of healing is rife with POV language.
1. "Wigglesworth, who had no medical training" - Totally unnecessary and obviously sharp language meant to make him sound foolish; also irrelevant because it's a miracle not a medical work and he never claimed to have medical training.
2. "claimed to have healed" Wigglesworth never claimed to have healed anyone. He always said God did it through him so this is patently false and the wording should be changed immediately.
3. Secondly, an editor put " His 'healing method'". Never did Smith call it a healing method. An editor made this term up and put quotations around it to be sarcastic. Obviously POV and both the term and sharpness should be removed.
Also, it says several times "he claimed". I haven't read all the sources but it seems to me that all the claims were made by other people on his behalf. I could be wrong but I think the wording should be changed because I doubt that he made this claim when he didn't seem to be making any of the others.
- Edit --Jacksoncw (talk) 21:20, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted your edit and added that he had no medical training at the beginning of the first paragraph as opposed to the last because I didn't think it fit. I still think it's unnecessary because he never claimed to have any medical training and it isn't relevant in the context of miracles, but I won't argue it. I removed the part about him being a plumber because it seems like a random tidbit of information randomly thrown in there. However, it could be placed in the lead.--Jacksoncw (talk) 01:50, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

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thread_title:  External links modified