Talk:Vampire/Archive 7

message: I have seen the spelling of vampire/vampyre different in several instances. Could we put up some information as to where these spellings come from?
* Speaking personally I have seen no source that indicates the spelling 'vampyre' is an 'archaic' form, or that it is any more 'correct' than the conventional spelling 'vampire'. The 'y' form is popular to the point of ubiquity amongst certain sections of society - particularly younger people who wish to associate themselves with the vampire for aesthetic reasons. But 'Vampire' is an old word, with roots in eastern European languages, where in the 1700s it was rendered 'vampir' or 'vapir'. There is some argument to suggest that it stems from the Slavic 'ubyr' meaning 'witch', although whether even this is a firm, invariable spelling and not merely a phonetic rendering is debatable. But certainly, in reference to a blood-drinking creature, especially one of the undead, there is no legitimate etymological reason to prefer, or even to use, 'vampyre'. - M., from 207.67.145.134 10:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling Vampire/Vampyre 

message: There is, towards the top of the page, a sentence reading, "The disease that a vampire has contracted is called Poryphoric hemophilia."  A Google search suggests the term "Poryphoric hemophilia" is a reference only to Elder Scrolls:  Oblivion, not to any actual vampire mythology.  It is not the same as porphyria, which is an uncontagious medical condition (i.e. you cannot contract it, it certainly isn't anything like the disease discribed in the Poryphoric hemophilia article.  I think the line should be removed, but as I'm it's late at night and I'm not sure of myself, I'll let someone else do it.
Equally, the article on Poryphoric hemophilia itself needs to indicate it is a concept from a game, not a real belief, or, better yet, simply removed as insufficiently relevant.
--Suttkus 06:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed that line already. The article about "Poryphoric hemophilia" was created by the same user who added that information to this article, and it has no references or citations at all in it. Not sure if I should add a prod template to this new article, or if it should stay. Might be original research/cruft, but I'm not sure. Anyway, it seems to be a question about vampire fiction, and not mythology or folklore. And as such it should not go in this article. /M.O (u) (t) 08:21, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poryphoric hemophilia 

message: I removed the weakness to werewolves because the two references used Van Helsing movie and Underworld movie do not show them necessarily being weaker; but show them as rivals. Just like the role playing game Vampire: the Masquerade from White Wolf publishing. This would not constitute a weakness like being burned by sunlight or holy relics. Also, this article is in regards to the vampire Myth rather than the Fiction - as stated from earlier discussions.Mefanch 16:40, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That information belongs in the articles the respective games, not on the page about vampires in general. Asarelah 02:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weakness to Werewolves 

message: I would like to remind other editors about the article about Vampire fiction, where information related to vampire fiction should go. Please don't add info to the section about vampire fiction in this article, unless it is very important and/or notable. It is only meant to be a summary of the main article, ie Vampire fiction, and if the information isn't present there, it shouldn't be added to this article either. Thank you. /M.O (u) (t) 15:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reminder about Vampire fiction 

message: I've moved the following (Destroying and avoiding vampires) from the main page because much of it is abot fiction and it seems to confuse fiction and and folklore.  Maybe I was wrong.  Would others please comment. --Simon Speed 21:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My instinct would be to clean it up rather than just remove it.  Sure, some of the material is misplaced, but a lot of it seems good.  I'll see if I can work with it tomorrow. --Suttkus 04:31, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of it is vampire fiction again, or worse, a messy description that doesn't differentiate between folklore and fiction (to start with, there is no such thing as a folkloric Western vampire at all). A similar section had been removed a long time ago, with the meaningful parts being incorporated in the "Some common traits of vampires" section.  Someone apparently re-added it. I wouldn't trust any part of it until I have a (good) source. --194.145.161.227 16:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Myth ? Folklore ? Fiction ? 

message: In Anne Rice's novels, vampires can move at supernatural speeds. Is this something from folklore or an early work, or did she just invent this for her books?
70.177.1.197 01:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a standard feature from folklore or fiction. DreamGuy 19:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  vampire speed 

message: I have read that vampire's cry tears of blood.( I also write in that fashion) And I was wondering if there was anything to that. --AngelicDemon92 18:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but this is a talk page for discussions about the article about vampires. It is not an open forum for questions or discussions about the subject of the article. Questions like this one should be taken elsewhere. My advice is that you read more about the guidelines and policies for Wikipedia, and that you start with WP:ENC and WP:NOT. Thank you. /M.O (u) (t) 20:07, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

text: It was a feature of vampires from the old White Wolf RPG and featured in the TV series spun off from it, but isn't part of general vampire lore so shouldn't be included in the article (he adds to make this a discussion of the article). --Suttkus 13:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I HAVE A QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

message: Why in this article it doesn't talk about the rumor spreaded by Malawi's oppositon that the president was vampire? That's so funny... 201.74.190.131 01:08, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vampires in Malawi 

message: Dracula is a mythical creature created by Bram Stoker. He was supposed to be the ruler of the undead in some fictional movies such as Van Helsing. Dracula is one of the oldest books ever. It was written in 1912. Many movies are made based on Dracula today. Van Helsing was a good example of Dracula, he did have two wives. Remember when Johnathan fell asleep in the room that wasnt his, and the woman were trying to feed from him when he awoke? Well those were supposedly his wives.
A 95 year old book 'is one of the oldest books ever'. Are you serious? Upholstered Dave 16:31, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dracula 

message: I redistributed the contents of the archives of this page into 6 archive pages because their size was large and not suitable for slow internet connections. I corrected the links in the archive box above. --Meno25 05:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archives 

message: Shouldn't this be moved to a separate Vampire (Folklore) page and Vampire fiction be turned into the main Vampire article? Whilst the stuff on this article may be interesting, I'm guessing that the vast majority of people when searching for the word vampire on Wikipedia have Dracula and Peter Cushing in mind, and hence little interest for most of the stuff here. A link could then be made on Vampire fiction to point to this article for the few that are interested in folklore (which is probably not many to be honest).
81.145.241.59 09:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Place for Article?? 

message: Many people who claim to be vampires say that while studies have, obviously, not been conducted, it is believed (by the vampires themselves, which, I admit, is not a wonderfully viable source) that Vampirism is a hereditary condition like red hair that may occur with no previous history of vampirism in the family.  Apparently, it changes hormonal balance in the body, giving hemophilia, an addiction to blood (several times blood withdrawal is discussed on internet sites and it is very similar to heroin withdrawal), photosensitivity (and as a corollary to this, better night vision).
Should we mention this at all?  It seems very possible.  Resources from http://www.sanguinarius.org. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.253.237.229 (talk) 16:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If studies haven't been conducted, then don't add it. See Wikipedia:No original research for policy. Asarelah 00:53, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More about Modern Vampirism 

message: I remember reading this article some time ago, and there was a portion concerning vampires and their relations to running water. Apparently, from what I can remember, completely immersing a vampire in running water (such s a river) destroyed the vampire. I was wondering where this portion went, and if it is to be added again, more specific information than 'running water' should be included (for example, is the ocean considered 'running water'?)Xander T. 02:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Running water? 

message: This stuff changes every generation.  it used to be vampires only went after virgins.  I guess to scare women into marrying.  Werewolfs also used to be under vAmpire control.  I don't remember why.  It probibly has some basis in fact historically or spiritually.  But people change the legends to there needs.  ie look at the bible people try to cut that up all the time to futher an agenda.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.14.129.37 (talk) 11:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  folklore or fact 

message: Greetings. I am Edward Cullen II and I absolutely love things dealing with vampires. And so I was wondering, where did the vampire legend originate? I know that Bram Stoker wrote the first novel on vampirism, but wasn't there a prince in Transylvania who drank blood and started the vampire lore? If you know, please tell my on my page. And if you don't know, come and chat anyway! I love company:)
--EdwardCullen II 22:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am sorry I think that this page is to discuss improvements on the Vampire article, rather than to discuss the subject generally. Stoker's Dracula is work of pure fiction based on Vlad the Impaler (no he wasn't a vampire but he did live in Transylvania) and should not be confused with the history and folklore of this fascinating and varied subject - the folklore inspired Stoker, not the other way around - the wikipedia etymology section is now tracing the use of the word Vampir back into the 8th century, hat is hundreds of years before Stoker was even born. Good luck on your quest —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.109.28.37 (talk) 14:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Where Did It Start?

message: I added the cryptozoology infobox because this article was listed under cryptozoology and decided to make an info box. So please do not delete the infobox.Ender_Wiiggin 09:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The point of the article isn't to get attention for a game.  And even aside from that, this is the wrong article.  There is another page dedicated to vampires in pop culture at Vampire fiction, which is where the picture might be appropriate.  The better place would be in a page devoted to the game itself. -Bbik 18:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cryptozoology info box 

message: The lead is meant to summarise the article overall, so the material on vampirism contained in the lead is really out of place - this is not important in the scheme of the article, which is about vampire folklore and the literature etc based on it. I think that this material should not be in the article, but it should not be lost, either. It might be worthwhile creating an article on vampirism to deal with these actual and social phenomena. A small part of the material contained in the body of the current article could be moved there. While I think this would give a better structure and a "cleaner" article, I won't take this action without checking here. For all I know, it may have been proposed before and rejected. Metamagician3000 08:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't you think it would make too short an article? If you have more info about the social and natural phenomena, it could be nice. Otherwise, it would be too similar to a wiktionary entry and would in turn be subject to deletion. How about creating a separate section "Other meanings of the term"?  --91.148.159.4 13:45, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, I think that it could make a good article. I myself am not really educated enough for it, but I know from experience that there is a wealth of knowledge from people on the forums at Drink Deeply and Dream . 80.47.101.93 17:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vampirism

message: To the person blocking me.  Who died and made you God?  A specific section on how to fight them is useful, not vandlism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.142.130.26 (talk) 18:57, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because this is an article mainly about vampires in folklore, not in fiction. Asarelah 18:59, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Folklore IS fiction!!!  Everything about vampires is fictional, and hence everything about them should be allowed on this page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.142.130.26 (talk) 19:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Traditional folklore is not the same as fiction, because people believed traditional folklore at one time. There is a seperate article for vampires in fiction, please use it for information about vampires in fiction. Asarelah 19:45, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

text: That's perfectly fine with me. Just as long as its only traditional methods, not like the sci-fi kind of stuff that 67.142.130.6 added. Asarelah 22:16, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: How to fight vampires

message: The second sentence of the Vampirism section says, "In folklore and popular culture, the term refers to a belief that one can gain supernatural powers by drinking human blood." No authority is cited, and the assertion certainly doesn't jibe with the folklore and pop culture I'm familiar with. In pop culture, normal people generally have to be turned into vampires by already supernatural vampires; just drinking some blood won't do it. Authentic folklore vampires, it is true, don't necessarily need a vampire to sire them, but they crave blood purely for sustenance; they usually have few or no supernatural powers aside from their undead status, and even when unusual powers are attributed to them, these seem to be part of their generally supernatural condition, not something acquired from the blood they drink. Does anyone disagree with that? It is actually corroborated by the rest of the article. 
I can certainly imagine that there might be small groups here and there who have believed they could obtain supernatural powers simply by drinking the blood of others. If someone knows of such a practice and can document it, it probably belongs in this article. But that is not what the term vampirism generally refers to in folklore and popular culture, and I propose to excise this assertion.  66.241.73.241 03:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Odd Secondary Definition of Vampirism

message: Exist one Spanish Legend about vampirism. The  Count Estruc and anothers.
In User:Estruch you have references.
Note: Your author is Spanish and need English Translator for write all the story...--Estruch 13:02, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am very suspicious of this. First thing is to ask for reliable sources; I can't find any external sources for a legend about a Catalonian vampire called Guifred Estruch (or the similar spellings given). Whatever, it's being spammed across various Wikipedias: Spanish, Catalan and French). I wonder if it's a fictional vampire by the author Salvador Sáinz. Tearlach 19:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

text: If wp:en user Estruch is the same as wp:ca user Estruch, he is lying. In wp:ca he admited being Salvador Sáinz himself. --83.32.68.37 14:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but is the same in all the wikis (spanish, catalan, english, french) an user named Estruch only and always write references about Salvador Sainz...no more, only books of salvador sainz. Is selfpromotion and Spam. Remember that in Spanish Wiki Estruch is blocked for this reason. Slavador sainz is catalan actor and writer. His films are unknow for the people, and the books (onlu 6) are only know for people that like fantastic and horror films. sainz is nobody but he want to promote hiself in wiki and send more books. Again, sorry for my ugly and poor english.--Britzingen 17:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And remember that salvador sainz autoedit all his books, nobody want to edit. From my experience in Spanish and catalan Wiki, I am really, really sure that Estruch is Salvador Sainz.--Britzingen 18:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I read that you want sources of Count Estruc. Ok, no sources. The little village of Llers (5 minutes from my house) was destroyed on Spanish civil war. All the sources of Estruc are oral tales. Salvador sainz give the character and write a novel, an he atributes itself the partnership of the character. Simply, no sources. --Britzingen 18:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

text: This man apparently sock puppet of User:Estruch. Watch your step.--Anonymous44 13:28, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish Legend 

message: I have read from a few fictional stories(mainly Chinese and Japanese translated) that vampires are essentially a type of viral infection, where the virus destroys the human(or animal) blood regeneration system and make it to create a substance that transform all blood to the same type.  Since the infected person can no longer make blood himself/herself, he/she needs to have a blood intake from a second source(victim).  Some of these depict the infection having a side effect of making the infected person stronger, due to less material was used to build blood cells and the body can focus on building up the body.  This does not seem to be an original research on those fictional writers, and instead sounds like somebody who actually knew a little about medical history who at the same time got interest in vampires who did some actual research.  I don't know if anyone got any reputable sources(I am not going to source 5 fictional stories in a wiki article to make it look notable, 1 reputable source is much more better).  I did some search online, and did found others talking about this, like here(as a doubting source, but anyone can doubt vampires actually existed, too).  However, it seems to be extremely hard to locate any actual source online since there is a book or movie carrying the name Vampire virus and a computer virus carrying the same name.  Anyone read anything like this that could be sourced and add it to the article?  MythSearchertalk 14:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One can use the same claim on vampires, vampires are created by creative writers or at least imaginative people.  Using the neutral point of view policy, as long as there are sources that could be quoted, and the sources are reliable and verifiable, it is suited for wikipedia's article. MythSearchertalk 03:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's popular enough to be notable (which I don't think it is), then it might be relevant for vampire fiction, but not here. --Anonymous44 15:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Vampire itself is fictional, and vampire fiction is only a page regarding fiction stories instead of fictional believes, yet this article is about the fictional believes about vampires.  I see a biological explanation on such subject as better suited here than the fiction page. MythSearchertalk 15:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what you're saying here. Fiction means literature, film, etc. It is contrasted to folklore=legends, etc. As the disambiguation sentence (the first one) says, this article is above all about folkloric beliefs in vampires, and only a brief treatment of vampire fiction is meant to be included here. --Anonymous44 19:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean, if some body is trying to explain the subject in a more scientific manner, like a biological cause(virus or genetic)  It is better suited here because it is not very fictional but is more like a possible explanation MythSearchertalk 04:27, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't seem to understand the basic different between fiction and legend. Or at least I think that's where your problem lies, because what you are saying makes no sense and that's the only way I can think up that might explain why you are saying such odd things. DreamGuy 05:06, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am saying that if there is a source claiming such things being a possible explanation of vampires, it falls into the modern belief category, and suits here better than the fiction page.  For now, there are no non-fictional sources, therefore I asked if anyone can give any sources.  The discussion itself is useless, I know what you are saying, and that is exactly why I did not go and edit the page since it is still only fictional.  However, I am seeing a possiblity that somebody might have written on such subject that is not fictional due to the fact that multiple series have made use of this idea. MythSearchertalk 08:26, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Exactly MythSearchertalk 13:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't accused him of anything, but I think it's obvious that he didn't get the distinction between vampire folklore and vampire fiction. I guess we both did misunderstand him, as he meant the possible existence of a real "vampire virus", in the real world. As an excuse I would say that all this talk about fiction was rather confusing, and it also seemed unlikely that someone would believe in such a thing and request citations for it. Getting back to the original question - no, I don't have such sources, and I have never read anything of the sort. On the contrary, I think it's absolutely certain that the infection that Mythsearcher described does not exist. BTW, here is an example of a rather detailed treatment of proposed medical explanations in German. It's informative, even if one doesn't agree with the author in everything. --Anonymous44 13:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One does not need to have a writting about real vampire virus, one only needs to have a writting about vampire virus and the author is serious about it instead of writting it as a fictional story.  Things don't just fall into fictional and non-fictional just like it does not just fall into folklore or fiction.  There could be somebody who looked at vampire stories, and provide an explanation to them without making it a fiction, just like physicist looked at the universe, and provided theories about how the universe came to be, with basically no way of proving it(check out the Universe article on the sentence The scientific theory which describes the origin and evolution of the universe is Big Bang cosmology), yet it is not fictional, nor it is folklore.  It will be kinda like the porphyria part, just more theoretically dealing with other possible biological causes, virus or bacteria.  Like Bbik said, there might have no reliable sources out there saying such things, yet unreliable ones existed (this one, IS fictional and is not notable to any extend), and I actually have read scientific magazines that tries to explain how some of the legendary creatures got their legend, therefore I asked. MythSearchertalk 16:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't need to argue about words. If the author is "serious about" the virus, then he says that it is or may be real. So it's a non-fictional attempt to explain the existence of vampire folklore (not vampire fiction). Why not vampire fiction? Because this kind of scientific explanation is necessary for the fact that people believe or used to believe in vampires, not for the fact that people like to read and write entertaining stories about vampires. Anyway, peace and happy editing! --Anonymous44 20:26, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need some citations 

message: All sources but two seem to say that the German word is derived from the Serbian one. Of the two odd ones claiming Hungarian origin, one () supports it with the assertion that German Vampir is first attested in 1732 in an account of Hungarian vampires. This would seem to be a confusion with the Serbian 1732 Arnold Paole incident, so the only remaining source for a Hungarian etymology is the 1955 OED - which might be outdated. Maybe the "Hungarian" bit should be removed altogether? I don't have a more recent OED at home, could anyone check what it says? --Anonymous44 15:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  German "Vampir" from Hungarian? 

message: The sections "Romanian Vampires" and "Pathology and vampirism" need a lot of work cleaning up.  I did quite a bit on the former, but it's still not great.  Before there was an attempted explanation of why two particular feast days coincided with increased vampire activity, but it was as clear as a brick.  I tried salvaging it but I couldn't save much, deleted a lot.  And still there are major problems.  The claims of the saints' patronage do not jive with their wiki articles, that I linked them to.  Can anyone back this up, does it have to do with the specific tradition of the Romanian church?  Any ideas about rewriting that explanation or reorg'ing this section are bound to be positive.
Callowschoolboy 16:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid almost the whole Romanian section should be deleted. The current source is a vampire fan site, which on top of it all explicitly prohibits copying its content on Wikipedia's terms - and most sentences in the Wikipedia version were just copied from it.--Anonymous44 20:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Tried to reword it, tightened it up and tagged it for starters, but someone should take a second look at the wordings to avoid any accusation of copyvio. Ultimately, a proper source should be found. What a pity I don't read Romanian, I bet there is some serious ethnological material online in that language. --Anonymous44 00:35, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two sections particularly need Cleanup 

message: In the article, it says...
Jonathan Harker is warned that at midnight “all the evil things in the world will have full sway.”[22][this source's reliability may need verification]
I just wanted to say that even though the source may need verification in other aspects, that bit is true. In my copy of "Dracula", a local says to Harker...
"It is the eve of St. George’s Day. Do you not know that tonight, when the clock strikes midnight, all the evil things in the world will have full sway?"
However I don't know how to put this right since I'm not familiar with the standards of Wikipedia, etc, so if anyone can do it in my stead so that I don't mess up...
PoisonedQuill 18:21, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for asking! I placed the tag, and I meant it to apply to the whole section (as does the footnote). But now I realize that both can be easily misinterpreted as referring to the preceding concrete claim, so I moved both to the end of the section and added some explanations in the markup. This may still be confusing, but I guess that's inevitable, as long as the sources are indicated by means of footnotes. --Anonymous44 21:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  midnight, from Bram Stoker's Dracula -- verification 

message: I'm confused and can't really find any decent literature on this. 
So, during the Holy Communion, people ingest wafers and wine to take in the body and blood of Christ. Does that effectively link vampirism to Christianity? If so, what kind of conclusions can be made about vampires being "demons"? Any help would really be appreiciated. 76.179.131.160 08:24, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transubstantiation 

message: There is no such thing as vampire lore in Japan. It's a novel concept, introduced in the Japanese cinema of the 50's. There are some folkloric creatures that have vampiric atributes, but these are minor, local concepts. All in all, I don't think it's even appropriate to have a section on vampires in Japan, since the other sections deal with peoples that actually have a rich vampire lore. I also made the kyūketsuki (which is basically just the Japanese word for the vampire, as it appears in modern fiction) into a redirect here. TomorrowTime 05:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese vampires