Talk:Tall poppy syndrome

message: Hey, just wanted to let you know that this phrase gets bandied about in Canada as well, and not necessarily among folks of NZ or Australian descent. Maybe it's a commonwealth thing? In any case, thanks for the enjoyable page :)
Eh?.. are you sure? In 43 years, the first and only time I've observed this in Canadad is in today's New York Times (2009/2/2)-- and it is used in the very context that is described by another writer here (ie not truly to describe a trait of a population but to defend an individual). That is, The NYTims quotes a US-person speaking of an emminent Canadian friend using TPS to derisively describe criticims leveled at his friend by Canadians. As the other writer on this page pointed out, in this context, it is invoked as a defense of his friend. It is very amusing that the Canadian in question is a politician... his friend from the USA seems to have forgotten that politicians are subject to public criticism. Frankly, I've heard little but praise about this guy except for an enormous error he made for which he himself has apolgized profusely. The point being, that in this context, the usage is invoked primarily to defend a specific individual in a specific context -- it is NOT invoked (primarily) to describe a trait generally attributed to Canadians. It's just BS. The real Syndrome is the one that causes persons who defend persons of eminence in this manner rather than trying to keep an open mind. I guess the word already exists: "Snob" ... Come to, "TPS" should be removed from this encyclopedia. It's ridiculous. I believe it belongs only in a compendium of nonsense. Is that what Wiki-pedia has become?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.3.229 (talk) 17:54, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: In Canada too

message: This article is in dire need of sources. The article describes a phenomenon that no two people can agree on, so we need to insist on sources for all statements. We would be better to just include quotes of other notable people who have commented on TPS, rather than try to include our own opinion on what it is, who uses the term and why. Ashmoo 03:52, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno, seems some agreement.. nominally it's a resentment of success, but in reality a device to minimise or deflect criticism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.161.11.199 (talk) 15:11, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: I don't see how the extensive Bible quote in this article has any relevance at all to this topic, and whoever inserted it didn't leave any notes. The article is primarily about a modern antipodean cultural influence, not the Bible. The Aristotle reference is directly relevant as the source of the term, but the Bible is not. I propose that section of the article should be removed. Bregence (talk) 17:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems relevant to me.  The syndrome seems to be a human -- rather than singularly Australian -- cultural or psychological trait.  The bible quote well illustrates that point.  And the quote is hardly "extensive." It makes its point and the article moves on. Roregan (talk) 07:48, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the quote, while potentially relevant is not directly relevant and contributes to the essay like form of the article.  I think it better removed and the article content tightened to be more factual.--Matilda talk 23:50, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Irrelevant Bible Quote

message: In the Etymology section, the quote references corn in ancient Europe. I am pretty sure that this was impossible as corn is from the Americas.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.188.219.34 (talk) 17:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Check out Corn; in North America we refer to maize as corn, outside it's "a general word for cereal crops and their grain". Hga (talk) 12:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question on the accuracy of the quote 

message: "term used in the UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand and Canada" surely "an English language phrase" would be enough.212.183.140.7 (talk) 09:28, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  I think the original is more informative.  Tall Poppy Syndrome is not a common phrase or concept in the US.  I (a Yank) only know about it because of spent time in Australia and was under the impression that TPS was solely an Aussie concept.  Listing the other countries was information that would have been lost with "an English language phrase." Xanthrax (talk) 05:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening 

message: Having read Herodotus (a long time ago, so my mind may be fuddled up), I seem to recall that Periander was informed of how to be a tyrant with the chopping of corn, not the other way around. I am probably (as usual) wrong, so does anyone know? --15lsoucy salve.opus.nomen 16:44, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. Corrected that, plus added the relevant passage from The Histories. Snowchess (talk) 11:19, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aristotle vs. Herodotus 

message: What's the connection with Mary Sue - there doesn't seem to be any mention of TPS in the article for Mary Sue.Autarch (talk) 19:20, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mary Sue 

message: There is only one source that actually has any relevant information for this subject. After eying the "Schadenfreude" link at the bottom of the page (synonymous with "for the lulz" of encyclopedia dramatica fame) I suspect that this is a troll article. Perhaps it should be deleted until this page can actually be verified as genuine. ArminHammer (talk) 23:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition, it's unmentioned how TPS is often used as a device to hand wave criticism of the undeserving away.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.65.193 (talk) 06:24, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page might be worthless 

message: This section needs a rewrite and citations. Such a culturally significant concept surely has some academic papers to it's name. The concept has a lot of sides in Australia. While it is indeed used to criticise people deemed to be too big for their boots, it is also related to people being discriminating against, to keep them in their place. Different people think of it differently, some see it as a positive some as a negative, and that should be reflected in the article. On top of all that, politicians most definitely have abused these insecurities for political ends (citations needed obviously).
I think we should ditch the kylie, steve irwin, etc references. This is pure opinion and can't be reasonably citable.
Also why is this sentence in the Usage in Australia section? "Prior to becoming British Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher explained her philosophy to an American audience as "let your poppies grow tall" 93.96.128.116 (talk) 04:04, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for finding the paper (above) from the University of Tasmania. I have inserted a link to it under 'External links'. It will be a useful source for anyone who has time to develop this article. On the question of "kylie, steve irwin, etc" I would not delete them at present. There could be an interesting expansion of the article around the question of who is perceived as a 'tall poppy'. --Greenmaven (talk) 20:28, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As a note, this PDF is no longer available as a download (wish I'd have downloaded it in time!). There are, however, a few useful papers available from the relevant Macquarie Uni Department of European Languages which appears to now be defunct or absorbed into another department. Relevant papers are to be found @ through a search for "Tall Poppy". I've downloaded a couple, but don't know when I'll find the time to develop this article, which is slightly misguided as to the pejorative form it takes in Australia and New Zealand. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:12, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I forgot to check the archives for the Bert Peeters article noted above: it's available here. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:19, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage in Australia 

message: I've lived in Canada my entire life, and as a couple others mentioned above, before stumbling upon this page, I had never come across the expression "tall poppy syndrome."  Apologies in advance to anyone offended by the following comment, but a lot of British people seem to be under the impression that Canadian culture is still influenced by British culture (because it's part of the Commonwealth), which is not actually the case, and so expressions that are used in Britain, Australia and/or NZ are assumed to be used in Canada as well... Wannabe rockstar (talk) 03:18, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not used in Canada 

message: The saying roughly means "The tree bearing fruit gets stoned", and is used to describe roughly the same thing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by SerFishy (talk • contribs) 19:27, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No. It may be tempting to add original research to articles, but Wikipedia is an encyclopaedic resource. If there are reliable sources stating that the two expressions are related (i.e., solid linguistic sources) it could be considered on this talk page. Even there, it would have to be assessed as to whether it is WP:OFFTOPIC for this article. It is not the function of editors to do anything outside of following reliable sources. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 20:48, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar saying in Turkish -- Should I add it to the article? 

message: The term has been widely used in many cultures of the egalitarian English-speaking world.
What does this mean? Is it classifying the whole English-speaking world as egalitarian? Valetude (talk) 11:09, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing out one of the aspects of the plethora of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH recently introduced to the article. It's a vacuous platitude supported by nothing outside of personal opinion. I've initiated a quick fix, but the entire article needs to be vetted after a few years of overenthusiastic contributions by well meaning editors who don't know the subject area and think they're improving it using their own guesstimates instead of reliable sources. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 20:31, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarify, please 

message: Regardless how widely the term is used in North America, I think the actual practice of cutting down the tall poppies is fairly common in the U.S.A. in the form of celebrity roasts. Although this does not apply to all people of power. Is this practice worth a mention? --119.75.3.194 (talk) 02:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Celebrity Roasts 

message: The article has been written from the point of view that the 'syndrome' is a bad thing. Articles in Wikipedia should be descriptive without judgement.
The opening line makes this obvious: "it is a cultural phenomenon of jealous people holding back or directly attacking those who are perceived to be better than the norm"
Remove "jealous" - which implies bad faith on the part of those with the sentiment. It is unnecessary to understanding the phenomena, and no evidence is provided.
"Directly attacking" - implies physical action. At best the phenomenon is public expression of dislike for a person who is the "tall poppy". There's no evidence of people being attacked for being "better than the norm". 
"Perceived better than the norm" - this is not my understanding. Tall poppies are people who do think, or are perceived to think, they are successful or better than most others
The opening description misses a vital second part of the syndrome: ... and act, or are perceived to act, as if they deserve to be treated better than other.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.236.229.149 (talk) 22:04, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Partially agree, partially don't. Agreed it needs some work around wording like "jealous", but your understanding of what it means appears to be off. None of the sources or usages that I've been able to find say anything about it being directed toward those who perceive themselves to be "higher" rather than people who actually are "higher". SamStrongTalks (talk) 12:46, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm Australian and I've *always* understood the term to refer to people who think they're better than everyone else due to wealth, success, etc. Tall poppies are most often called wankers in everyday speech. 124.149.228.141 (talk) 02:37, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this term had its origins in New Zealand and Australia in the 20th century, but it has expanded since then. It seems psychologists and influencers are creating new definitions for this term. "Tall poppy" has existed since Roman times or earlier, but the adding of "syndrome" is a 20th century feature. I believe the article should begin with the original syndrome term used in mainstream language given there are many information sources online that support the AU/NZ origin, but should also recognise the reinvention of the term that is currently happening. This would be fair to recognise both sides, in chronological order. Cityofsand (talk) 21:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pejorative point of view of the 'syndrome' 

message: I wonder if this term could be considered related to Tall Poppy Syndrome. The difference is that this label was not applied to peers, but to members of another social group, viewed as inferior, who were perceived as attempting to “rise above their rightful station”. Usually, in the USA, this meant Black people. This use of “uppity” could be seen as an attempt to cut down the tallest poppies in _another_ field, rather than one’s own. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:58A8 (talk) 00:38, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I think there are some similarities, but more so with the Law of Jante from Denmark. To me, Uppity is where other people believe that you think you are better than everyone else because you have had some type of success. The "Law" of Jante basically says that you should not fool yourself into believing you are better than everyone (According to the harsh townsfolk in that novel). Tall Poppies are high achievers, but the original main definition of Tall Poppy Syndrome is a high achiever who brags relentlessly about their own success. Those high achievers who additionally have TPS, take every opportunity to tell journalists their opinions about life/society in general, and often accuse everyone else of being unsuccessful because they are lazy, delinquent or undeserving. For this reason, I think TPS is more a name for people who brag, while Uppity is more a name for people who succeed. It's possible that you could add Uppity as a related term at the end of the article, and also to the Law of Jante article as well. Maybe you could even create your own page for Uppity if you have some books or journal papers to cite in it. Cityofsand (talk) 21:14, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: to be honest i'm australian and working class and my understanding of tall poppy syndrome has always been fairly intertwined with the idea that tall poppies think they're better than everyone else. 220.240.51.71 (talk) 04:51, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

text: "attempting to “rise above their rightful station”" That definition would also match anyone who is striving towards upward social mobility. And social climber tends to be used as an insult. Dimadick (talk) 00:44, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: “[[Uppity]]”

message: 木秀于林 风必摧之
Describes the equivalent of this too. 120.21.147.108 (talk) 10:40, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese idiom