Talk:Nichiren/Archive 1

message: Nichiren's life and message were about the equality of all human beings, about the ability of every human being to acheive enlightenment in his/her lifetime, and about the fact that until we each come to understood our own power to create our own happiness, to influence our envirionment, and to resolve our own karmic baggage, until we stopped giving up our authority to a priesthood or a government official, or even a God (capital G), until we see life for what it truly is, we will continue to be stuck in the same endless cycle of sufferring. 
He said that because we are all have the same potential for Budhahood within us, that we are all equally worthy of respect. And that means that no one, no person (in the form of priest or politician, or what have you) has any special authority to stand between one and ones attainment of enlightenment. Your enlightenment is already YOURS! It is INSIDE you! Nichiren was trying to shatter the shackles that bind us. 
But, you know, there are always those so used to their prison that they are afraid to go out in the light, even if the door is wide open. 
All of this over-intellectualized, doctrinal mind f---- is absolutely in oppostition to Nichiren's message. It is like burying ones head in a sandpit of words and dates and doctrine and dogma, and why? To have a truly accurate depcition of the man and his life? Or, is it just an unconcious means of avoiding the light? How is any of this stuff going to help you become happy? 
I quote in excerpted form from the Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, On Attaining Buddhahood in this Lifetime: 
If you wish to free yourself from the sufferings of birth and death you have endured since time without beginning and to attain without fail unsurpassed enlightenment in this lifetime, you must perceive the mystic truth that is originally inherent in all living beings.... Your practice of the Buddhist teachings will not relieve you of the sufferings of birth and death in the least unless you perceive the true nature of your life. If you seek enlight-enment outside yourself, then your performing even ten thousand practices and ten thousand good deeds will be in vain... That is why the T'ien-t'ai school's commentary states, "Unless one perceives the nature of one's life, one cannot eradicate one's grave offenses.
This passage implies that, unless one perceives the nature of one's life, one's practice will become an endless, painful austerity.
This that you are engaging in, my friends is an "endless, painful austerity."
Wishing you well... - R
:Reply Whether I agree or diagree with some of your points aside, if people want to mind-f____, as you put it, let them. I have little sympathy for those whose intent is only to discredit—whether it be Nichiren altogether, a particular school, a particular object, or even religion altogether—but sometimes their questions (and such) can be revealing in a positive way as well. In any case, fragments alone—whether quotations from certain of Nichiren's writings, the authenticity or inauthenticity of a few documents or objects, or the accuracy or inaccuracy of a several dates—do not give a full pitcure. It's only when all the fragments come together and can be weighed in the context of the whole that the whole—which includes also the actions, attitudes, and behavior of those involved—comes to light. Jim_Lockhart 04:42, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Question about These Questions

message: Upon Nichiren's death, was Nichiren ever respected by the Bakufu government of that time? By the way, what shogunate was it at Nichiren's time? Thanks if anyone got some information. Gammadion 21:23, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you clarify what you mean by "Nichiren ... respected by the [b]akufu"? The bakufu of his day was the Kamakura Bakufu, which certainly took him seriously (if that's what you mean by "respected"). If you mean, "did any bakufu ever practice his teachings," I would say that the answer is no. If you mean, "did individuals of a bakufu ever practice his teachings?" the answer becomes a bit complicated. There have been many Nichiren schools since shortly after his death, and all of them have enjoyed a degree of partonisim from indivudual persons in the bakufu, though most have been heavilly persecuted by the various bakufu, mainly for their strident evangelism, which was seen a socially disruptive. It should be noted that this situation was similar for some non-Nichiren Buddhist sects as well. HTH, Jim_Lockhart 04:42, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Again, instead of writing and asking with such ambiguity, could people (Don't know who wrote this one liner. Gammadion? R?) please be clearer about what they mean? For instance, the previous paragraph (about the bakufu), touches on several issues, so which does the this refer to? Jim_Lockhart 08:10, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Was Nichiren ever respected by the Bakufu?

message: I have removed the following because it is only tangetially relevant to the subject of the section, adds nothing of informational quality about Nichiren's intentions, and in fact interrupts the flow of the explanation. 
:He based his views on his studies of the sutras, and the Lotus Sutra in particular. Among other things, in this teaching, Sakyamuni declared often that it (the Lotus Sutra) was the true teaching and that his earlier teachings has been provisional. For example, from the second chapter, "The Expedient Means,": 
:…now I say to you, I have preached various sutras, and among those sutras the Lotus is foremost!
:…This sutra opens the gate of expedient means and shows the form of true reality. This storehouse of the Lotus Sutra is hidden deep and far away where no person can reach it. But the Buddha, teaching, converting and leading to success the bodhisattvas, opens it up for them.
I do not understand the intent of today's additions. Please explain them. Also, why is the link to SGI's site necessary? Shouldn't information on the Lotus Sutra and explanations of why it was Shakyamuni's ultimate teaching (in was not his final teaching, either; the Nehan-kyo came after it).
Also, what is the point in watering down Nichiren's refutations of the other Buddhist schools (he labeled them heretical!) and in saying that Nichiren was opposed to corrupt religious and political institutions? Although in effect he may have been, such opposition was neither his primary nor professed purpose: He saw other sects and religions as heretical and therefore as leading people to unhappiness. Also, he had tono particular focus on "the people" as this term is used in post-18th century political discourse: his intent was to save all people regardless of social or political station.
Other historical inaccuracies are also creeping into the article with regard to Japanese society in the 12th century.
Best regards, Jersey_Jim 07:36, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Jim, how are ya? - My take on the above comment: It suggests that Nichiren didn't just decide of his own accord that the Lotus Sutra was the ultimate teaching, but rather that he took his cue from Shakyamuni's own words (those quoted are from the Lotus Sutra istelf). Nichiren gets a bad rap in my view, for having "opposed" other forms of Buddhism, when in reality, I think it was much more about him saying "Hey, look, guys - we've been given a direction from the guy who has the map, and we're not paying attention! We are going down the wrong road! Let's change course!" When he wasn't listened to, he got a bit loud on them. I am being a little facetious here, but, I think my point is valid, or at least worth considering. It seems worth noting to me. Or, if not noting in the article, it at leasts warrents a toning down of the attitude towards him. He is definately often presented as some kind of malcontent or rabble rouser or something, and I don't think that's fair - nor is it NPOV. So, with revisions, I think the paragraph is worth it. What do you think? - R--71.250.88.213 04:51, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New material added 2005.11.26

message: I think the section on women is misleading. The wording makes it sound as if Nichiren's views we revolutionary for the whole of Buddhism when they were mainly revolution just for Japan. Even the linked wikipedia page points out that the role of women in the vajrayana schools was much more open and theses had been in existence for hundreds of years prior to Nichiren. I have changed it appropriately.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.223.1.123 (talk) 10:10, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Women and Buddhism 

message: Since this is a general article on Nichiren I wonder if this paragraph is not to specific. It goes into great detail that some Nichiren-Schools might interpret different.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.247.172.253 (talk) 19:26, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nichiren's Contribution to Buddhism 

message: Unreliable SGI sources are overused as references- neutral sources please.andycjp (talk) 04:51, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Limited sources

message: I have deleted sentences with vague, ambigious and unverifiable statements, such as: " Some traditions suggest that..." What traditions? Do they have names? And Who said what? On Wikipedia citation and refrences are the rule, and not imaginary ideas. I deleted also a sentence starting with: "This has been interpreted ..." without mentioning WHO and WHERE the alleged interpretation was given. Another example of inconsistency with Wiki rules is using the word" "Maybe" instead of facts: " Nichiren's spiritual equality - regarding women - may have been due to..." This way of entering data is weakening the article and is against Wiki rules. Please avoid "maybe - maybe not" , or "Someone said..." and also please check your refrence websites. Mentioning websites but which are inoperative (as is the case with the game of Go), makes the subject unverifiable and meanigless. Thank you. SafwanZabalawi (talk) 08:04, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion of ambiguities

message: I've added some info to the 'Nichiren's views' section, re. His view of precepts. Please feel free to add/amend as necessary. Steve (talk) 01:07, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Nichiren's view of Precepts

message: The statement accusing Nichiren of following "unscientific views" of his time was deleted as it was based on incorrect understanding. The deleted statement was about a letter written by Nichiren in which he mentioned a metaphore - not of his creation - but one found in the Lotus Sutra about  "a turtle seeking a floating sandalwood" to survive. "To illustrate the extreme rarity of encountering this sutra, the Buddha likened it to the difficulty of a one-eyed turtle encountering a floating sandalwood"'http://nichiren.info/gosho/Turtle.htm
There is a difference between a book on Physics and a spiritual text of a Sutra. Religious texts employ Metaphors and magnified illustrations, fantastic stories..etc... not as physically occurring facts, but to make the essence of their message close to understanding - or to to convey a concept which is beyond time and space. This is found in all religions. As for Nichiren, his teachings are based on the Law of Cause and Effect, the solid ground of both science and the spiritual field SafwanZabalawi (talk) 01:37, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion of incorrect statement 

message: I removed the passage because Nichiren was no more exclusivist than any other Buddhist teacher in His day. The article on Honen, for example, doesn'y say he was 'exclusivist', even though he taught that only the Nembutsu was useful to people. I suppose 'controversial' could be put back, if it's cited correctly. Steve (talk) 18:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed passage saying Nichiren was 'controversial' and 'exclusivist'

message: I've changed the image of Nichiren. Hope that is OK. Steve (talk) 01:36, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: New image of Nichiren

message: An account of the circumstances which led various Nichiren temples to serve the Shinto based authorities in Japan (WWII) is published in “The Untold History of the Fuji School” of SGI_USA, 606 Wilshire blvd Santa Monica , CA, 90401, World Tribune Press, ISBN:978-0-915678-76-1, year 2000:
“ In 1941, the government revised the Maintenance and Public Order Act…[which] stipulated ‘any blasphemous act against the dignity of a Shinto shrine as punishable…'.The government also pressured the various Nichiren schools to delete passages from the Daishonin’s writings it viewed as disrespectful toward the emperor… In June 1941, the newly merged Nichiren Schools, which consisted of the Minobu, Kenpon Hokke and Hon’mon schools, decided to delete 208 phrases and passages from seventy of the Daishonin’s writings….
Following the lead of the combined Nichiren Schools, the Nichiren Shoshu administrative office issued a notice, dated August 24, 1941, stating that because the Daishonin’s work were written more than seven hundred years ago....people of the present age in reading his writings might “doubt the Daishonion’s desire to respect the emperor ….” .
The notice also states : “ The doctrine that the Buddha is true while deities are transient is a vulgar belief in Buddhism…This school, therefore, shall not rely on this doctrine…”. 
Furthermore, on September 29, the Nichiren Shoshu Study Department issued a notice that instructed the deletion of passages from the Daishonin’s writings where the nation’s sovereignty – symbolized by the Sun Goddess, which Shinto considers to be the supreme diety – is described as inferior or subordinate to the Buddha.  
For example, the priesthood deleted the passage where the Daishonin states, “I,Nichiren, am the foremost sage in Jambudvipa” WND,642.”
Ref. Pages 110 and 111 of the above-mentioned book.
……………………………………………….
* It is worth mentioning that Nichiren Shu has apologized for their support of the military authorities and for the deletion of some Gosho passages to appease the military regime. Nichiren Shoshu head temple, however, have not - yet- apologized for the same action. Currently, there are two branched organizations :The Association of Priests for the Reformation of Nichiren Shoshu and the Association of Youthful Priests Dedicated to the Reformation of Nichiren Shoshu , which demand declaring an apology by the head temple for the cooperation with the Shinto authorities during the II WW: http://www.nichiren.com/en/special_topic/special_topic02/st02_92.html
SafwanZabalawi (talk) 02:58, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion of passages from Nichiren Writings

message: Ref 6, which says Nichiren's writings were changed during WWII and link to sokahumanism.com looks like own research. - Steve (talk) 12:22, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're right about the reference here being Own Research, but there is a book that I've read which does talk about this as well, so I'll look for it and change the reference over to that instead. Mollari08 (talk) 00:09, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have any issue with the info being there, but I think it should be referenced to a published work. Also, Safwan and all, please feel free to delete any external links to The nichiren Site, as the site no longer exists. ~ Stephen (talk) 12:10, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Own Research Re: Nichiren's writings being changed during WWII?

message: The following sentence appears in the article:
"Nichirō agreed with Nisshō's defense of Nichiren as a Tendai reformer. He founded a practice hall that became part of Ikegami Honmon-ji, the site of Ni--Catflap08 (talk) 08:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Clearing ambiguity

message: What is the difference between Nichiren's Buddhism and Mahayana Teachings? 
This question is frequently asked and its answer deserves a thorough research on main differences between the mainstream "Traditional" Buddhism and Nichiren's.
I have encapsulated the main points in doctrinal issues to clarify this important subject .SafwanZabalawi (talk) 10:15, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Nichiren and Mahayana Buddhism

message: The proposal to have some section of the article deleted has some merit. I think the article would be more organised by deleting the sections on Writings, Identity, After Death teachings, and Major Writings. However the article would not be informative nor meaningful without basic reference to what Nichiren taught. This person is known by his teachings, and the article is not a birth-death certificate, so I will edit my entries on Nichiren's teachings to be concise & without delving in sectarian interpretations. Without going through particular sects practices, I think it is possible to present waht made Nichiren known - his general teachings - with broadmindedness and adherents to Wiki article writing rules.SafwanZabalawi (talk) 01:53, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Reorganising the Article