Talk:Autobahn

message: The correct plural in German is "Autobahnen". 84.227.140.74 15:14, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Very true ... but this is the English Wikipedia and all the British I know are dying to get their cars onto the German "autobahns" Agathoclea 16:16, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

text: This makes no sense. The article is in English, not German. English speakers use the plural "autobahns", not "Autobahnen". If you're going to insist that "Autobahnen" is used, you should be consistent and have the entire article in German.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.25.95 (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

text: glad to see that these nationalistic, not factual arguments have been overcome at least in the introduction :)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.71.27.150 (talk) 13:41, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: German Autobahnen

message: I am from Germany and when reading this article, I wonder why this lot of German words is used. Not only do they disturb the process of reading, they also do not contribute to the topic at all. Of course, the term "Autobahn" itself is relevant, but what the heck about "increased operating danger" for "Erhöhte Betriebsgefahr" or "flash headlights" for "Lichthupe" or coercion for "Nötigung" etc. etc. ? 
You might argue that they are fixed terms used in official context, but still this is not relevant to the article. 
As an example, when I read a German text about the American Chief Justice of the United States, I am, of course, perfectly able to understand the text without ever having it use the American term "Chief Justice of the United States". The German equivalent of "Oberster Richter" (or something)  will do the job.
I guess, a lot of German people are involved writing articles about German topics. This is easy to see, because they tend to overestimate the importance of their topics all the time. As an example, read a Wikipedia entry about any German university and compare it to the entry about the MIT, Stanford etc. Concerning the university's reputation, the tone in the MIT etc. articles is very modest, while those of the German universities are filled with praise. However, (everyone knows) the reverse is the case. Coming back to this article, this also reflects in the heavy (but ridiculous) use of German words in Non-German texts .   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.134.35.251 (talk) 00:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As a matter of fact I myself (a German) would take German words in an English text as a sign that it has not been written by a German... --91.34.237.187 (talk) 12:26, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  German Words in the Article 

message: I just saw a special on PBS about the nature of how the German autobahn is constructed.  It seemed to me that part of the unique nature of the autobahn is not just the high speeds and safety laws, but also the advanced level of engineering used to sustain safer roads with less constructions sites.  I don't know a lot about this, but the spacial said they use porous concrete that can resist extreme weather better and cost three times as much as an equivalent length of US highway.  This seams appropriate for this article if anyone feels like researching it. 
Also, they have rapid response accident units that cover the whole country to make sure accidents are cleared for the road quickly.  This includes some helicopters always on standby for medical evacs.  Again, seems pertinant to the unique nature of the autobahn.
Dkriegls 17:48, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Construction 

message: I would like to suggest changing the name of this article from "Autobahns of Germany" to "German Autobahns".
My reasoning for this, the new name sounds more precise. The current name would in any case, NOT be used by someone who uses English as a first Language. 
As an example: We don't say "Motorways of Britain" or "Abbey of Westminster"  but  Westminster Abbey and British Motorways.
I would appreciate your views on this subject.--IsarSteve 21:50, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should be changed in the way you suggest. German_Autobahn sounds way better. It probably should be changed throughout the text too. The Autobahn is sounds at least for me (german) better than The Autobahns are. In german I would only use the plural when talking about two or more specific ones, like The Autobahns A1 and A7 are..., there you can't avoid it. (Unless you say The A1 and the A2 are.., what I would do.) -- Kphwin 00:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name Change 

message: Why was this article forked from Autobahn in the first place? Are there any other articles dealing with Autobahn roads that require this separate article here? As I understand, Motorway is the main article on high speed roads in general, so there's no need to have two on Autobahn roads. -- Matthead discuß!     O       16:50, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  as they are the original "Motorways" and have a much longer and varied history than say the English Motorway system, I think the German Autobahnen (Autobahns) are/is entitled to their/its own page or at least be the basis of any Autobahn/Motorway page.--IsarSteve 12:09, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge to Autobahn 

message: Under  "Current Density", it says that Germany's autobahn network is the third longest after the United States' Interstate Highway System and the National Trunk Highway System (NTHS) of the People's Republic of China.
I doubt that this is true considering that Canadian, Australian and Russian motorways should all be longer considering the size of these countries. France also has 12,000 km in length. Japan has probably more. -- Rodemont2
Size has little to do with the length of a total highways system, populations and economy have more to do with it.  However, the country of Germany is only slightly larger then the state of Minnesota.  Even with 80+ million people and a great economy, there isn't that much space to cover with highway.  The Trans-Canadian Highway with both the main Trans-Canada route and Yellowhead route is 10,781 KM.  Thats almost as much as the 11,980 km cited in this article as the whole German system.  Now I have driven both highway systems, and I can say that the Autobahn makes parts of the Canadian highway system look like parkways or even small roads instead of freeways, so maybe the author read some statistic that had strict criterion for defining the Highway system.  So the author needs to cite their source. Dkriegls 18:13, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "the country of Germany is only slightly larger then the state of Minnesota." wrong, that's only West-Germany; united Germany is slightly smaller than Montana  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.251.116 (talk) 10:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length 

message: Distances in "mi"
What ever happened to km?  I'm from a metric English speaking country and I don't understand mi.  I understood the practice in Wikipedia to be 100 km (62 mi) for example.  
Here is the some of the text showing this
Development of the overall length (at the end of):
1935: 67 mi
1936: 675 mi
1937: 1,249 mi
1938: 1,893 mi
1939: 2,051 mi
1940: 2,322 mi
Compared to 7,565 mi "Bundesautobahn" in 2005'''''
I corrected that error.  There really is no need for miles.  One system (SI) for the whole world is sufficient.  Even adding prehistoric units that only a very few pretend to understand is just plain clutter.  If some  really need to know it, which they don't, they can calculate it for themselves.  The German Autobahn system is completely SI, so there is no need to mention prehistoric measures.
I agree with getting rid of non SI units (except for USA and UK things).  I would have said that before but thought it would upset too many people.
I would see no reasons for exceptions.  The purpose is to have a clear and concise article without the need for clutter that only a very small minority understands.  Metric is taught in US and UK schools and is understood by anyone working in industry.  Even the UK is predominately metric except for road signs and beer.  
You shouldn't worry about upsetting people.  If they are intelligent, they will understand the need to use only one system and that is SI.  Look at the other languages.  You don't see articles cluttered with secondary units in parenthesis.  If someone doesn't know SI, then maybe it is time for them to learn.  Cluttering up articles with extra units doesn't lead to understanding but greater confusion.
Don't you think the article looks better after the clean-up?
: Actually, I don't think it looks better; an article's look is only as good as its transmition of information. Since this is the English language version of Wikipedia, it would stand to reason that the mileage equivalency should be included in parenthesis (if not even the other way around, with km in parenthesis). This isn't an argument over which system of measurement is better (metric, in my opinion), but simply that an article should be readily understood (it is an encyclopedia, after all) by the majority of its' readers.--Egghuntpbs 17:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distances 

message: :Das Grosse Steuergeldverschenkprogramm an die Baukonzerne der BRD und Europäischen Kommission durch die Bundestagsfraktionen 1990 bis 2008
*http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/16/073/1607394.pdf
*Helsinki 193.208.90.130 (talk) 10:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Was hat Dich denn gebissen?! Unglaublich... TomGaribaldi (talk) 16:12, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Die Luegen und Betrueger Solidaritätszuschlag 1990 bis 2008 der Bundestagsfraktionen Strassenbau in der DDR 1990 bis 2008 21.02.2007

message: First of all, excuse my pretty bad english. 
I just want to say that in Germany Autobahn and Bundesautobahn isn't the same, there are for example "Autobahnen" that aren't "Bundesautobahnen". []
Autobahn refers to the traffic rules, Bundesautobahn refers to property and who has to maintain.
-MCH- 195.145.245.92 (talk) 14:33, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autobahn/Bundesautobahn 

message: Just wanted to make sure my reasoning about these edits is clear.  The formatting of years 1935-1940 seems more appropriately matched to the table that followed it.  The years 1950-present contained "." as a thousands separator, which is confusing for readers from some locales that use ",", and " " is a standard compromise that is not ambiguous in this context.  Finally, I could not see any rationale for including individual years for 1995-2005, they are not notable, the changes are easily interpolated, and adding 1995, 2000, and 2005 to the 1950-1990 table improved consistency.  In case some are concerned about loss of some detail, I'll remind that WP is not simply a collection of statistics - there should be some notable reason for inclusion of detail.  --Scray (talk) 06:55, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits to Autobahn length tables in History section 

message: I think the recent page move to "German Autobahnen" should have been discussed here first; the reason given was that the plural of Autobahn is Autobahnen. That may be so in German, but the English Wikipedia article should probably be named "German autobahns"; see :wikt:autobahn. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:38, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I do admit I should have done that.  From all the sources I see the plural is "Autobahnen" and not "Autobahns".  If you think this is English wikipedia we should be saying "vehicle rails".  I have not seen a source that says it's "Autobahns". TheGeekHead (talk) 21:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't have been looking very hard. Here's one, here are more. Umlaut is also an example. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't sepecificly look for "Autobahns", I looked for "autobahn plural" and I found many more results on English pages that said "Autobahnen".  I did a few searches online and found many more results for "Autobahnen".  The main article on English wikipedia on "Autobahn" says the plural is "Autobahnen".  Please find some offical source that says it's "Autobahn" in English, only then will you have a valid argument. (Sorry if my tone sounds aggressive, I do not mean to offend anyone, I'm just trying to share my view on things) TheGeekHead (talk) 05:20, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The difference lies in the word's usage; as a German word, the plural is "Autobahnen", as an English loan word, it's "autobahns" (notice the lower case "a"). See also wikt:Autobahn and wikt:autobahn. The main article you mention, Autobahn, uses "autobahns" 39 times, "Autobahnen" 7 times and each of those, bar one, makes it clear that that is German usage. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Page move

message: Forcing slow drivers on the left-hand lane to change the lane (even if they are occupying it illegaly) by flashing or tailgating may be considered coercion.
This is not correct. It is not allowed to flash your headlights again and again and of course you have to keep the minimum distance to the car in front of you. But outside of built-up areas you are allowed to announce your intention to overtake by hooting the car horn or flashing. Someone should correct that.
Source: German Road Transport Regulation (Straßenverkehrsordnung, StVO)
§5 StVO: Überholen
(5) Außerhalb geschlossener Ortschaften darf das Überholen durch kurze Schall- oder Leuchtzeichen angekündigt werden. Wird mit Fernlicht geblinkt, so dürfen entgegenkommende Fahrzeugführer nicht geblendet werden.
85.16.162.127 (talk) 14:41, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Traffic laws and enforcement 

message: The current spelling of Autobahn/autobahn is inconsistent in this article. The majority of cases uses the lower case spelling (58 times), Autobahn is used 17 times, including in the title (2x), once as a German quote, once at the beginning of a list item, once as part of a game title and twice as track names in those games, and twice in titles of referenced works. That leaves 8 capitalised occurrences and the title itself which should be spelled in lower case if the majority is correct. Otherwise, 58 occurrences should be changed to upper case. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If the article treats it as a strictly German word then it should be capitalised. Since the German plural has been used then it should be capitalised to be consistent. I personally prefer lower case and the use of autobahns for the plural. Until I read this article I'd never seen the German plural used in English. Ozdaren (talk) 11:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Autobahn vs autobahn

message: The term `single vehicle' is more than ambiguous. Having only one vehicle on a stretch of road seems highly inefficient. Does it mean a single lane? a single lane in each direction?  I don't want to make a guess.
2602:304:B390:8FB0:E409:8122:C133:F17D (talk) 01:54, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Term choice

message: I drove up and down the german Autobahnen, in the eastern states as well as on regional, less important ones, I have never seen one without emergency lane in a long time. An up-to-date reference is missing here. Mind the difference between Autobahn and Schnellstraße.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.214.245 (talk) 17:01, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I know of at least two Autobahn instances that lack an emergency lane: A8 between Stuttgart and Ulm ("Drackensteiner Hang"). Two lanes per direction, very curvy and slow going, but a substitution for that section is under construction, I think. The other Autobahn without emergency lanes I drive regularly is the A5 near Frankfurt am Main with 4 lanes per direction, but a sign says to use the (physically existing) emergency lane as a regular lane, so near Frankfurt the A5 is 5-laned but without emergency lane.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Morbo82 (talk • contribs) 15:38, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current Density 

message: In theory, trucks are not allowed to overtake others unless they drive 20 km/h faster than whomever they are overtaking, but truck drivers are generally under pressure to arrive in time; therefore, such laws are rarely enforced for economic and political reasons, especially since a lot of trucks are from other countries. The right lane of a typical autobahn is often crowded with trucks, and too often, trucks pull out to overtake.
1. Should this not be listed under Law section, instead of speed limits section?
2. I have looked for a source for some time now, and did not find any other reference to the theoretical 20km/h difference rule. Can anyone with good knowledge of German traffic law confirm that?
3. The too often reference sound like a complaint rather than a formal description.
---------
Official Law:
StVO 
§ 5 Überholen
(2) Überholen darf nur, wer übersehen kann, daß während des ganzen Überholvorgangs jede Behinderung des Gegenverkehrs ausgeschlossen ist. Überholen darf ferner nur, wer mit wesentlich höherer Geschwindigkeit als der zu Überholende fährt.
"wesentlich höherer Geschwindigkeit" = significantly faster
this has been defined by court about 20km/h and should prevent Trucks from doing a "Elephant Race" or a "Sunday Driver" overtake Cars with 5km/h difference and blocking the left lane.
i will NOT change this in the article, because every time something is changed, some schoolmasters delete the changes instead of checking the sources. i'm just a daily user of the autobahn and i know german traffic law, but if someone thinks he knows better...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.39.218.10 (talk) 07:07, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There are certain conventions how to add text to an article on Wikipedia;  fails. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:42, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact that is debatable because after all there is a "no overtaking by trucks" sign, indicating that when this sign is not given, overtaking by trucks is allowed. Frankly, on three-lane motorways it does no harm if trucks occasionally use the middle lane.--46.87.143.20 (talk) 21:10, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overtaking rules 

message: No, they are not. Only in a snow or icy conditions.
Source: www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/touring_tips/germany.pdf
Citations:
"It is now prohibited to use summer tyres in Germany during winter weather conditions - summer tyres are predominantly fitted to vehicles in the
United Kingdom."
"Winter weather conditions include black ice, snow, ice, slush and hoarfrost."
"Motorists, whose car is equipped with summer tyres may not take the car on the road in winter weather conditions. Motorists in violation face fines of €40. If they actually obstruct traffic, the fine is €80. You may also be prevented from continuing your journey unless the tyres are changed or the weather conditions change."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.25.133 (talk) 15:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  During the winter months winter tyres are compulsory. 

message: I notice that both "tyre" and "tire" are used in this article. WP:ENGVAR requires that we settle on either British or American English and use it consistently throughout an article. In my somewhat limited experience (about 6 months living in Munich), most Germans I've met speak British English. Of course this is based on anecdotal evidence, but I'd go with British English for this article. (I'm American myself btw.) Thoughts? Cheers, <FONT COLOR="#2F4F4F">Litho</FONT><FONT COLOR="#464646">derm</FONT> 18:01, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: They speak British English so let's settle on that. --Eamonnca1 TALK 18:25, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:ENGVAR]]

message: I once vaguely remember seeing a map that showed three specific routes West Germans could take to get to West Berlin by car through East Germany. Could someone include this for completeness? Such a map would be found in an old encyclopedia, likely. --70.79.150.161 (talk) 06:45, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This information is presented at West Berlin#Road traffic, albeit without a map. If such a map were available, it should probably be shown there, too. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:24, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Pre-1989 Autobahn Map?]]

message: German autobahns are apparently 4th longest after US, China and Spain.
So are Spanish motorways, after US, China and Canada??
--Ls97 (talk) 18:19, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly! I just came to this talk page to see if anyone else noticed! :-p ctxppc (talk) 23:36, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  conflicting position with spanish highways 

message: Can someone explain me from where the 388km number is coming from as this clearly contradict the article in german where is it stated that half of the german highway have an advisory speed. Greatpatton (talk) 20:38, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: 388km?

message: I think the section on speed limits in the introduction should be thinned out somewhat, and much of it moved to the speed limit section. However exciting the option of unrestricted speeding mayhem ;-) may seem to the rest of the world; once you're here, you will realize it is just not that big a deal for everyday autobahn usage. The vast majority of people just use that road to commute, safely and boring, from A to B - most of them trying not to burn up too much highly expensive fuel in the process. The issue is there, and there are heated debates at times, and it should by all means be included in the wiki. It just seems to me it's not important enough to warrant such a long stretch in the introduction.--Cancun771 (talk) 20:22, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much speed limit details in the introduction 

message: Seeing as there is a whole other article on Reichsautobahnen, we should consider removing most of this subsection from this article and transferring it there, maybe with a short summary remaining.--Cancun771 (talk) 20:22, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: German-built Reichsautobahnen in other countries

message: At the top of the article, in the infobox, under the Autobahn sign, there are 3 route markers - for A3, A5 and A7. The background for A7 uses a different shade of blue than the other 2 route markers. Is this correct, or is this a mistake by the image uploader? If it's a mistake it's a bit annoying because it just seems out of place there. Photon man62 (talk) 04:38, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: All of the route marker images were originally uploaded to commons in 2005.  Some, but not all, of them have since had the background colour changed to the correct digital shade of blue.  As I do not know how to make that change, I have removed the A7 image (which still has the wrong background shade), and replaced it with a different, A1, image with the correct background shade. Bahnfrend (talk) 05:00, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different background colour for A7 route marker? 

message: http://grist.org/list/overachieving-germans-to-green-the-autobahn/ 

Bananasoldier (talk) 03:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  greening ref? 

message: In the German language the decimal mark is the comma , while in the English speaking world it is the period . This is a decision by governmental standards agencies and is not a simple social convention. When writing an article in English it is necessary to use 1.150 for a number slightly bigger than one, and to use 1,150 for a number slightly bigger than a thousand. I translated the numbers from the German into English, by replacing the German decimal mark with the English decimal mark. Nick Beeson (talk) 13:01, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Punct 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: this map is complete nonsense. i dont know where it comes from and who has drawn it, but ist clearly shows NOT the German autobahn system! e.g. the main motorway from Hamburg to Hannover and on (A7) is completely missing, as are many others. better delete this map than to provide such fakenews information!
:It'd be nice if you signed your edits, even as IP. As to the map, removed it - most of the routes in and around Berlin are missing, as well as the upper rhine valley road. Among others, it would seem. While I don't see the added value as such, at least the work should be done before adding it to the article. Regards, --G-41614 (talk) 13:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inteactive map 

message: Nonsense. A31, A30 and A33, for example, are at least in parts in Northrhine-Westpahlia, not exclusively in Lower Saxony and T. as stated. Who put this into the article, where is the source?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.71.27.150 (talk) 11:06, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbering 

message: A czech millionaire driving a Bugatti at 417km/h on an empty autobahn A2 was acquitted from dangerous driving by the public prosecutor  on 22 April 2022.
https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/justiz/id_92059932/mit-417-stundenkilometern-ueber-a2-verfahren-eingestellt.html--H.F.Bär (talk) 08:30, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top Speed  

message: Zac67: NO "Lord Mayor" in Germany. It's an English title. There are Bürgermeister and Oberbürgermeister, or mayor, in English. ArgosAristos (talk) 03:32, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lord Mayor 

message: Why is the article title not italicized, while  is italicized in the lede? I would lean against italicization given that the Autobahn is a common English language term, but either option would be better than having the title not match the lede. :3 F4U (they/it) 20:53, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title and lede mismatch 

message: In its current state, almost the entire introduction is spent discussing the Autobahn's speech limit system. This seems to go against Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section by placing undue weight on the speed limit, as opposed to things like the history and usage. Bold revisions to the introduction would really help improve the article. StereoFolic (talk) 03:24, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction focuses too much on speed limit