Talk:Swan song

message: Someone weasel-worded the opening sentence to read:
:A swan song is a reference to an ancient and false belief that the occasional Mute Swan (Cygnus olor) is completely mute during its lifespan, but may sing one heartbreakingly beautiful song just before it dies. 
I don't think the weasel-wording is necessary. The old belief is consists of two parts:
a) The mute swan is completely mute during its lifespan.
b) The mute swan may sing one heartbreakingly beautiful song just before it dies.
Part a is false. A recording of the call of the mute swan can be heard at:
http://mcssz-hungarnet.cserkesz.hu/%7Eszazs/madarhang/Cygnus.olor.mp3
This is enough to establish that the ancient belief is false.
If anyone thinks it might be true, please cite the source. Dpbsmith (talk) 14:13, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: It's just false. If you think it's possibly true, provide a source...

message: "The End" is not the last song on the album "Abbey Road". --Tail 22:51, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Swan for the money, two for the show" (sorry) 160.84.253.241 (talk) 08:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: By the way

message: This article needs some references, specifically about the existence of a swan related to the mute swan sometime in the past.  Can we request a redo? Arthurian Legend 18:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disappointed 

message: Saturday Diary: Swan song
Saturday, November 03, 2007
By James Hilston, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
I was walking along the River Trail, carelessly putting one foot in front of the other. I say "carelessly" because, as an upright organism adept at bipedal locomotion, I do this sort of thing all the time, and it does not seem to require any special attention.
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James Hilston is a graphic artist for the Post-Gazette (jhilston@post-gazette.com, 412 263-1268).
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As I gazed out over the water of the mighty Allegheny River, minding my own business, pondering the profundities of bipedalism, I imagined a sound that I'll never forget.
At first, I did not realize what I was hearing. But as I listened more intently, it dawned on me that it was a song. It was eerily beautiful, even sublime, although those words fail to capture its ethereal quality.
I drew nearer to the source and saw that it was coming from a massive white bird. The scene was otherworldly. He was lying on the shore, half out of the water, partially hidden among the reeds. He apparently was dying. And singing.
I wondered to myself. I say "to myself" because I could have wondered aloud, but what would be the point? I doubt that the big white duck (or swan?), despite the bipedalism we shared, was capable of the higher brain function of language. And even if it did possess language skills, I doubt that he would be keen on speaking and understanding English, given his lack of lips, and the difficulty a lipless creature would have pronouncing such bilabial plosive consonants as P and B.
I wondered to myself, "Why would this huge white goose (or swan?) lie here in his final moments of life and sing such a strangely beautiful song, instead of calling for help (in his own lipless language)? It was as if he had lived his existence mute, only to find his voice at the end of his life, and chose, instead of speaking, to sing.
At that moment, as I remember it, the bird picked up his head slightly and looked at me. Without missing a note, his cloudy black eyes fixed on me for just a second, and then he put his head back down and, apparently, died.
•  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.235.7.207 (talk) 18:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A portion of an article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette 

message: "However, it is also contested by many that the swan in which this legend refers to is in fact, an extinct species that did exist in classical times. The "Mute" swan of today may only be a related descendent bearing the same name."
If it's contested by many, it should be possible to give a good reference saying so. 
When I was researching this I found no indication of any such thing, so I'm removing it. It should not be reinserted unless a good reference is provided. Dpbsmith (talk) 03:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving unreferenced assertion about extinct species. 

message: I Now Nothing About Christopher Bruce. He Wrote A Ballet Called SwanSong Which I Also No Nothing About Please Make A Page That Relates To Him. For People As Well As Me To Read.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.0.227.166 (talk) 15:39, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christopher Bruce 

message: This statement has been marked as needing a citation since November 2007, but none has yet been provided:
:In sailing, and on the sea, many yachts carry the name of Swan Song.  When used in this fashion it usually refers to the last of many of the owner's yachts.
Dpbsmith (talk) 22:59, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "Many yachts"

message: Neither those who believe or disbelieve can provide proof. The fact is, there are two contradicting views expressed. Please allow Wikipedia to reflect an unbiased perspective.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.115.16.14 (talk) 23:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  In regards to the comment requesting a source 

message: This article lists "Fusconator" as the italian for swan song, but it clearly is derived from the name Fusco, which is also mentioned.  Therefore, while fusconator may refer to the same concept of a "last bow" as swan song, it has nothing to do with the song supposedly sung by the swan!  Fusconator should not be used to explain the way swan song has become by extension any last performance because the word fusconator is, while expressing the idea of a last performance, not actually derived from the term swan song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.180.0.159 (talk) 20:01, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italian Phrase

message: I read somewhere about 10 or 15 years ago that when a swan is shot from the sky, as it falls to the ground, air rushes through its throat and produces an eerie whistle, and that that is where the term swan song comes from. Anyone else ever hear or read this? Kingturtle (talk) 00:35, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't heard this, but the Pliny the Elder reference to the generally accepted origin of the phrase satisfies me as reliable. Kansan (talk) 15:10, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  song produced when shot from sky? 

message: Was that it ignored the first two extant references to the swan song. Incredible that no-one had noted Aeschylus' ref in Agamemnon and Socrates in Phaedo. Noted and referenced.
Also Socrates mentions that the swan was not mute but its last song is its most beautiful.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.212.111.178 (talk) 03:34, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Main thing wrong with this article 

message: > It was when the ancient Roman Pliny the Elder and some later sages that this legend and the whole idea was considered as a mistake, but among the writings of Leonardo da Vinci yet there was a note "The swan is white, without spot, and it sings sweetly before die, that song ends its life."
This sentence isn't correct English - it parses as "It was when [nouns] that [noun and noun] was [sic] considered as [sic] [noun]". Shouldn't there have been a verb there?
I would have fixed it, but I can't tell what it was intended to say. It makes no sense to me at all.
Can we get the original author to explain what he was trying to say here? If not maybe it should be deleted.
Also, "it sings sweetly before die" isn't correct English either. I doubt that Leonardo da Vinci wrote in English, given his dates, let alone in incorrect modern English like this.
Perhaps this would be more correct:
Leonardo da Vinci wrote mediaeval Italian to the effect that "The swan is white, without spot, and it sings sweetly before dying."
I can't find the original Leonardo quote, but that's probably because my command of mediaeval Italian is almost nonexistent. Maybe he didn't even say it - it's not attributed.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel that this whole section is broken in multiple different semantic, syntactic and factual ways and is not even very encyclopaedic, so is better simply deleted.
14.202.196.207 (talk) 16:46, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentence doesn't make sense 

message: This sentence is a wonderful example of the ridiculous prose you can find on wikipedia. If you search google for the phrase "whose basis in actuality is log-debated" the only results are copies of this article. Surely the lead section of an article should not contain such a convoluted and contrived sentence:
"This belief, whose basis in actuality is long-debated, had become proverbial in Ancient Greece by the 3rd century BCE, and was reiterated many times in later Western poetry and art."
I think I understand the author's intent but I am not certain. Can someone rewrite this sentence?DouglasCalvert (talk) 00:16, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who writes like this: "whose basis in actuality is long-debated" 

message: hi, i read your thing, it was cool. nice job mr. hilston. i just wanted to say that. bye.
Foxler2010 (talk) 22:31, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  hey you gazzette people