Talk:Prince George, Duke of Kent

message: "On 29 November 1934, the Duke of Kent married Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark, the daughter of Prince Nicholas of Greece and Denmark and a great niece of Queen Alexandra, at Westminster Abbey. It was the last marriage between a son of a British Sovereign and a member of a foreign royal house to date." - But Lieutenant Mountbatten was born Prince of Greece and Denmark, and a member of a foreign royal house too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.233.109 (talk • contribs) 23:28, 8 March 2005
:You answered your own question: "It was the last marriage between a son of a British Sovereign and a member of a foreign royal house to date." The Duke of Edinburgh wasn't the son of a British sovereign, and neither, for that matter, is the present Queen; she's the DAUGHTER of a British sovereign. Morhange 02:43, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: For a little more information, Prince Philip became a British citizen before his marriage to Princess Elizabeth.  So he was born a son of a foreign royal house, he lost that designation when he became a British citizen.  Hope that helps.Prsgoddess187 15:53, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: First comments

message: For discussion of claims surrounding Hess's flight to Scotland, see Talk:Rudolf Hess.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.47.84 (talk • contribs) 14 March 2005 
I have removed the following unsubstantiated gossip from the main page:
An unproven claim has been made that British Intelligence assassinated Prince George. One possible reason is given by author Charles Higham, in the second, revised edition of his book The Duchess of Windsor: The Secret Life, as serious concern over the Duke of Kent's lack of discretion and his political dealings with Nazi leadership, with negotiations towards a separate peace, to allow Germany to concentrate on its war with the Soviet Union in eastern Europe. Higham writes that the Special Operations Executive (SOE), worried that the Duke would talk about these matters once he left the British Isles, tampered with the plane before its takeoff, ensuring its crash soon afterward, with the deaths of all but one of the passengers.The Duchess of Windsor: The Secret Life, second, revised edition, by Charles Higham, 2005.  It should be noted that in another of his books, Errol Flynn: The Untold Story, Higham made similar claims about Hollywood screen actor Errol Flynn, saying that he was a bisexual Nazi spy.  These claims were readily debunked by Tony Thomas in his book Errol Flynn: The Spy Who Never Was.
Authors Lynn Picknett, Clive Prince and Stephen Prior in their books Double Standards: The Rudolf Hess Cover-up and War of the Windsors claim that the Duke of Kent's plane stopped to pick up Rudolf Hess, and that it was part of a peace plan that would have ousted Churchill from powerPickett, Prince and Prior Double Standards: The Rudolf Hess Cover-up, Time-Warner books (2002), pp. 427–435—thus leaving the unstated implication that if the Duke was assassinated by British Intelligence, it must have been 'agreed' at the level of Winston Churchill. "The German Ambassador to Portugal, Baron von Hoyningen-Huene, reported to von Ribbentrop that according to the British community in Lisbon, the flying boat was sabotaged in order to kill Kent because he was in favour of peace with Germany".Pickett, Prince and Prior, The War of the Windsors, Mainstream (2002), p. 187  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.250.184.63 (talk) 17:35, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Rudolf Hess

message: The picture of George is supposedly in the public domain because its author died at least 100 years ago. However, even if the author died immediately after taking the picture, this would make George at the time of the picture aged 4 years. This cannot be correct. Johnleemk | Talk 08:21, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We are getting close to two years since this issue came up, yet the same picture with the same explanation remains. Should it be taken down? -Rrius (talk) 21:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: I think much of this article makes POV assertions as though they were fact: for example 'the family, who are famously philistine'. Using the verb 'to be' (are) in this sentence instead of a conditional or some kind of hedge such as 'are often regarded as' is inappropriate for an encycopaedia. Other phrases such as 'Given George V's famously dull brain' are not only too colloquial for an encyclopaedia but would be difficult to justify from an empirical point of view. I'm going to ask that this article's listing be reviewed. 
Daviddariusbijan 21:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: article needs to be reviewed

message: Reasons given :
* LEAD not long enough and not reflecting the articles depth.
* POV sense to many sections.
* Not enough references plus not enough variety in ref.
Lincher 17:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is excessive reliance by a previous author or authors on "War of the Windsors: A Century of Unconstitutional Monarchy", which is a cpntroversial source to put it mildly. It is npot sufficient authority for the more contentious statements made in this entry.60.234.48.118 03:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA failed

message: Much of the content on this Wiki page is very similar or identical to content at http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/royal_nazis.html#George. I don't know which is the original, or if both are taken from someone else.
:That page is a copy of this. Proteus (Talk) 11:07, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible plagiarism? 

message: Much of the body of this article relies on Picknett, Prince, Prior & Brydon, which is not a guarantee of dependability. There should be alternative sources provided for the more unlikely/controversial claims, or they should be described as claims made in that book.Ncox 03:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutral point of view/reliability

message: "... although much evidence has been shown to suggest that he had her pushed, possibly though his position in the masonic lodge..."
Since Preston died four years after the Duke's fatal crash, this doesn't sound very convincing to me. Drella Melmoth 02:03, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kiki Preston

message: No cause of death given? 71.194.163.223 (talk) 20:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the article. Plane crash. DBD 02:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death? 

message: > Much of this history was outlined in the documentary film The Queen's Lost Uncle mentioned above. The Duke's bisexuality and drug addictions were explored in "African Nights", a 2004 play written by American playwright Jeffrey Corrick.
Where above? Parrot of Doom (talk) 18:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  queens lost uncle 

message: "It was once proposed that the Duke be made King of Poland, in a move to restore the Polish monarchy much as the Greek monarchy had been restored using imported Royals. In August 1937, the Duke and his wife visited Poland and were well-received. However, due to the invasion of Poland in World War II, the plan was called off.
Supposedly from Picknett, Prince, Prior & Brydon, pp. 142–143.
Seems a hoax or gossip, the monarchists in Poland were a marginal group and had very different candidates for throne. I will post this on Polish noticeboard for comment.--Molobo (talk) 10:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hoax ? 

message: In the article it is written: "12 October 1934 – 25 August 1942: His Royal Highness The Duke of Kent". 
Shouldn't this be: "12 October 1934 – 25 August 1942: His Royal Highness Prince George, The Duke of Kent"?  
121.73.7.84 (talk) 10:50, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the Dukedom of Kent is a royal dukedom. George was "HRH The Duke of Kent". His son is now "HRH The Duke of Kent" and the Duke of York is "HRH The Duke of York". Of course, George never ceased to be "HRH The Prince George", but "The Prince George" was only used as part of his full title. Surtsicna (talk) 11:34, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Styles & Titles 

message: Apparently in 1936, during the abdication crisis, the Duke of Kent was supposed to be made King, and Prince Albert had relinquished his claim. However, Albert changed his mind, and took the throne, however he still kept the name "George VI"!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.158.152.213 (talk) 10:29, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I see your source for this was some speculation in the Daily Mail (posted here). So it's bound to be true, then, isn't it?Swanny18 (talk) 15:46, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  King of the United Kingdom? 

message: One theory is that he was drunk at the controls of that plane, having pulled rank over the pilot.
As his rank was only honorary, the pilot refused at first to hand over the controls, and a radio operator on the ground was able to overhear parts of this argument. The operator was sworn to silence, but revealed the details many years later.
Any verdict on the truth of this one? 86.176.5.37 (talk) 23:08, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Prince George was a Group Captain in the RAF, and it was no honorary title.  He had been given the rank of Vice Air Marshal of the RAF, which was roughly equivalent to his Rear Admiral rank in the Royal Navy years earlier.  He declined the Vice Air Marshal rank because he did not wish to outrank more experienced RAF officers with a War brewing.  The Duke was a dedicated pilot who earned his wings in 1929.  He took flying seriously, and there was a low cloud cover that day.  Him wanting to fly drunk with 15 or 16 sould onboard is absurd.   The plane he died in was piloted by a special crew handpicked for their experience.  The briefcase handcuffed to the Duke full of Kroner would only have been of any value at that time in Sweden.  That plane easily had the range to fly to Sweden, and it was reported to have been painted white, with a black stripe on the tail.  The Duke's pro-peace friends were in Sweden.  Planes painted white with a black stripe on the tail frequently flew between Britain and Sweden on humanitarian missions, and the Luftwaffe left them alone.  Pictures of the crash, after the 15 bodies had been removed, still had tarps over the tail section.  The survivor of the crash (occupant 16) was sworn to the secrets act within hours of arriving at hospital.Raisinpie (talk) 08:33, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

text: I know this is two years old but just to comment they were always 15 on-board and was reported as such at the time, as far as the rear gunner Flight Sergeant Jack being "alive and well" when he turned up I think you find he was badly burned and thrown clear, disorientated and stunned he staggered away from the wreck, he was found fairly soon about three miles away from the crash site. Just for info:
;Passengers
#Air Commodore HRH the Duke of Kent
#Lieutenant John Arthur Lowther, RNVR (Dukes Private Secretary)
#Pilot Officer the Hon Michael Strutt (ADC)
#Leading Aircraftman John Walter Hales (Dukes Valet)
;228 Squadron Crew
#Wing Commander Thomas Lawton Moseley (1st Pilot from Australia)
#Flight Lieutenant Frank McKenzie Goyen (Captain)
#Pilot Officer Sydney Wood Smith (2nd Pilot RAAF}
#Pilot Officer George Richard Saunders (Navigator)
#Flight Sergeant William Royston Jones (FLight Engineer/Air Gunner)
#Flight Sergeant Charles Norman Lewis
#Flight Sergeant Edward James Hewerdine (Air Gunner)
#Sergeant Edward Francis Blacklock (RNZAF) (Wireless Operator/Air Gunner)
#Sergeant Arthur Rowland Catt (Wireless Operator/Air Gunner)
#Sergeant Leonard Edward Sweet (Flight Engineer)
#Flight Sergeant Andrew Simpson Wilson Jack (Rear Gunner - seriously injured)
*MilborneOne (talk) 08:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: They flew into rising ground in poor visibility, perhaps due to low cloud or localised fog or mist, a not uncommon occurrence at the time.
Some sort of conspiracy theory is raised over the case of cash. It wasn't unusual for crews to carry some currency of neutral nations. Quite useful if you were rescued by a Swedish ship. You could bribe the captain to return you home. The claim it was handcuffed to him seems to be a bit far-fetched.203.194.36.12 (talk) 10:57, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  The case of cash is not an established fact and, even if it were, neutral currency had obvious uses in wartime. The inquiry found that the crash occurred for commonplace reasons, namely unpredicted wind. Scores of RAF and USAAF aircraft crashed in the highlands of Scotland and Wales due to navigational error caused by unpredicted wind, usually but not always on training flights. In this case the Sunderland crew appear to have assumed that the Sunderland's cruise speed of 165mph was close to its ground speed when in fact, due to adverse wind, it was only making about 100mph groundspeed. After 37 minutes airborne in bad visibility the crew thought they had travelled the 99 miles from Invergordon to Duncansby Head, and therefore turned left for the Pentland Firth to head off to Iceland, when in fact they were at Dunbeath, only some 66 miles from Invergordon, and, worse, the captain had made no effort to gain safety altitude above known local terrain heights, so when the Sunderland turned left, blind, on instruments, at about 700 feet, it went smack into Eagle's Rock and exploded. Such errors used to happen all the time in those days. Nothing odd about it. Khamba Tendal (talk) 20:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cause of fatal plane crash 

message: I am responding here to the edit that removed the categories LGBT People from England and LGBT Royalty.  It seems clear and well-documented that the George, Duke of Kent was bisexual.  Since the B in LGBT stands for bisexual, these categories seem apropos.  There is, as far as I know, no requirement of a degree of bisexuality.  Since there are so many documented instances, I think it would be disingenuous not to acknowledge the Prince's proclivities.Argos'Dad 19:43, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not "well-documented" at all. I'd suggest working on the documentation. There's some fuzzy wording with a citation to the Letters of Noel Coward that cites no page (which I've now fixed to say what the editor of Coward's letters actually says). Same for the "some suggestion" citation of Lucy Moore's work. "reportedly blackmailed" with no citation at all. The most specific bits cite Picknett, Prince, Prior & Brydon's War of the Windsors, which IMHO is not an acceptable source. The lead author is Lynn Picknett, "a writer, researcher, and lecturer on the paranormal, the occult, and historical and religious mysteries." Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 14:46, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  B is for Bisexual 

message: We need reliable sources for category claims.  It may well be that such sources are indeed available and you can list them in the article - but if not, then who is saying that these people fit the bill?  Just deciding that you think they fit the description is Original Research - and that's not allowed here.  I need to see a few reliable little blue number in each categorization that links to a reference document that can be examined to confirm Basic Academic rigour 
:Most people that are listed in the misleading LGBT categorization can also be connected with the following:
:-Heteroflexibility -is a form of a sexual orientation or situational sexual behavior characterized by minimal homosexual activity despite a primarily heterosexual sexual :orientation that is considered to distinguish it from bisexuality. 
:-Pansexual-  A person who is fluid in sexual orientation and/or gender or sex identity.
:-Polyamory- is the practice of having multiple open, honest love relationships.
:-Affectional orientation - To holders of this view, one's orientation is defined by whom one is predisposed to fall in love with, whether or not one desires that person sexually
:-MSM- are male persons who engage in sexual activity with members of the same sex, regardless of how they identify themselves; many men choose not to (or cannot for other reasons) accept sexual identities of homosexual or bisexual.
:-Situational sexual behaviour is sexual behavior of a kind that is different from that which the person normally exhibits, due to a social environment that in :some way permits, encourages, or compels those acts.
:Many people change their sexual behavior depending on the situation or at different points in their life.Rosario, M., Schrimshaw, E., Hunter, J., & Braun, L. (2006, February). Sexual identity development among lesbian, gay, and bisexual youths: Consistency and change over time. Journal of Sex Research, 43(1), 46–58. Retrieved February 8, 2011. For example, men and women in a university may engage in bisexual activities, but only in that environment. Experimentation of this sort is more common among adolescents (or just after), both male and female. Some colloquialisms for this trend include "heteroflexible",  "BUG" (Bisexual Until Graduation), or "LUG" (Lesbian Until Graduation).See for instance "Campus Lesbians Step Into Unfamiliar Light" New York Times, June 5, 1993 
:Sexual orientation
:A report from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health states, "For some people, sexual orientation is continuous and fixed throughout their lives. For others, sexual orientation may be fluid and change over time". "There . . . [was, as of 1995,] essentially no research on the longitudinal stability of sexual orientation over the adult life span. . . . [I]t [was] . . . still an unanswered question whether . . . [the] measure [of "the complex components of sexual orientation as differentiated from other aspects of sexual identity at one point in time"] will predict future behavior or orientation. Certainly, it [was] . . . not a good predictor of past behavior and self-identity, given the developmental process common to most gay men and lesbians (i.e., denial of homosexual interests and heterosexual experimentation prior to the coming-out process)."Gonsiorek, John C., Randall L Sell, & James D. Weinrich, Definition and Measurement of Sexual Orientation (feature), in Suicide & Life – Threatening Behavior (N.Y.: Guilford (ISSN 03630234)), vol. 25 (prob Suppl), 1995, p. 40 or 40 ff. (prob. pp. 40–51) ((ProQuest (ProQuest document ID 7736731) (Text Only)) http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=2&did=7736731&SrchMode=1&sid=1&Fmt=3&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1269113734&clientId=4273 (Full Text), as accessed Mar. 20, 2010 (alternative document URL http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=7736731&sid=1&Fmt=3&clientId=4273&RQT=309&VName=PQD)) (prob. also in PsycINFO) (abstract <http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLanding&fuseaction=showUIDAbstract&uid=1996-16078-001>, as accessed Mar. 17, 2010, or http://doi.apa.org/getuid.cfm?uid=1996-16078-001).
:Kinsey scale
:Heterosexual-Homosexual Rating Scale, attempts to describe a person's sexual history or episodes of his or her sexual activity at a given time. Ituses a scale from 0, meaning exclusively heterosexual, to 6, meaning exclusively homosexual. 
:The Sources?
:Picknett, Lynn, Prince, Clive, Prior, Stephen & Brydon, Robert (2002). War of the Windsors: A Century of Unconstitutional Monarchy
::Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince? You have to be kidding me? They have no scholarly qualifications or authority whatsoever to be used as sources. (Picknett, Lynn, Prince, Clive, Prior, Stephen & Brydon, Robert (2002). War of the Windsors: A Century of Unconstitutional Monarchy)
:::What does the WP article say:
:::-Both before and after his marriage, Prince George had a string of affairs with both men and women, from socialites to Hollywood celebrities. 
:::-the latter part of the 1920s – and reportedly was blackmailed by a male prostitute to whom he wrote intimate letters. 
:::-'that he had an affair with Noël Coward,Barry Day, ed., "The Letters of Noël Coward," (NY: Alfred A. Knopf, 2007), 691  which Coward's long-term boyfriend, Graham Payn, denied.Brandreth, Gyles (2004). Philip and Elizabeth: Portrait of a Marriage. London: Century. , p. ??
:::-There is some suggestion that the duke had an affair with Indira Raje, the Maharani of Cooch Behar (1892–1968), in the late 1920s, according to British historian Lucy Moore.Moore, Lucy, "Maharanis," Viking, 2004., p. ??
===References===
:User: Pgarret (talk) 11:38, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Its going back in. Look at the bottom of this page -- LGBT studies. --76.105.145.143 (talk) 22:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding sexual orientation category to this biography may be a [[WP:CAT/R#Sexuality]] violation 

message: :User: Pgarret (talk) 11:38, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Though I agree with your ultimate point that the LGBT royalty category is nor  warranted, you do yourself little credit by ranting. (1) The category is what it is. The fact that someone can be labelled or identified in other ways is beside the point. (2) BLP = biographies of living persons. The man is dead. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 01:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Its going back in. Look at the bottom of this page -- LGBT studies. --76.105.145.143 (talk) 22:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Response

message: WP:CAT/R#Sexuality For a dead person, there must be a verified consensus of reliable published sources that the description is appropriate.
For example, while some sources have claimed that William Shakespeare was gay or bisexual, there is not a sufficient consensus among scholars to support categorizing him as such. Similarly, a living person who is caught in a gay prostitution scandal, but continues to assert their heterosexuality, can not be categorized as gay. 
Categories that make allegations about sexuality – such as "closeted homosexuals" or "people suspected to be gay" – are not acceptable under any circumstances. If such a category is created, it should be immediately depopulated and deleted. Note that as similar categories of this type have actually been attempted in the past, they may be speedily deleted (as a G4) and do not require another debate at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion. User: Pgarret (talk) 01:49, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Further

message: Regarding the currency carried by the Prince at his death, the notes are described only as "kroner" without further specification, while the text implies the money might have been interchangeably used in several countries. While it's true that Iceland, Norway, Denmark and Sweden all used (and still use) similarly named currency, a result of the Scandinavian Monetary Union, they were always nationally independent, and as of 1914 neither of equal value nor interchangeable. There should therefore be no room for speculation regarding which country the money carried was meant to be used in, unless for some reason the specific nationality of the notes was never released to the public.
I tried to go to the sources cited to find clarification, but one is a subscription-only article and the other is a mere title without specification. I have not researched it further, but on the surface of things, it would appear strange if this was a real mystery.
I might add that if the notes did indeed literally say "kroner", they would be from either Norway or Denmark. Swedish notes would say "kronor", and Icelandic ones "krónur". This may of course be a fairly understandable error. Laanders (talk) 10:14, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to note, this ambiguity appears to have been resolved some time ago by the clarification that the notes were Swedish kronor (sing. krona) - thanks! Laanders (talk) 16:15, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  What kind of "kroner"? 

message: He remained on active service in the Royal Navy until March 1929, serving on HMS Iron Duke and later HMS Nelson.
:Are you sure he was actually out on operations? You may just mean that he was 'on the active list', that is, available to be sent into action. Valetude (talk) 16:37, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Active service? 

message: I have read in a biography of the Duchess of Kent by the late Helen  Cathcart that Prince George did a stint as a factory inspector in the interwar years before his marriage. Would that have been while he was employed by the Home Office?Cloptonson (talk) 16:57, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Factory Inspector

message: I thought Wikipedia was meant to be more of an encyclopedia vs. a gossip rag.  All this “alleged” and “rumoured” nonsense in this profile.  How about sticking to verifiable facts? 2601:40B:C201:7890:0:0:0:BCEB (talk) 19:22, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  GOSSIP RAG 

message: In the photo at the top of this article and in another photo at
https://therake.com/stories/icons/the-forgotten-prince/
, protruding from the tiny "V" in the barber-collar at his neck is the means from which is hanging his Grand Cross of "the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem". On the Wikipedia page for St. John at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Grand_Crosses_of_the_Order_of_St_John
he IS listed as "Bailiff Grand Cross". And yet those facts are omitted from this article's section that lists such things as his Order Of The Garter and Order Of The Thistle. These facts are missing ENTIRELY, as a search for "john" finds only three and each of the three has nothing to do with this Order. There COULD be a reason for this, maybe, but what is it? The Wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_the_United_Kingdom
doesn't list St. John of Jerusalem with all of the other Orders, but moves it down below Baronetcy and Knighthood. That is something that of itself should be explained. But what is the reason that this "Order" is one that "doesn't count" for purposes of enumerating the major pieces of metal hanging off of this article's subject's uniform?    2600:1700:6759:B000:1C64:8308:33BC:E2D6 (talk) 05:30, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grand Cross St. John