Talk:Llanito

message: [yánito] as a pronunciation is not IPA--[y] in IPA represents German written ü, French written u, not a sound found in either Spanish or English. Removing it. 89.62.105.171 22:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  [ɑ] is probably wrong, or too narrow a transcription—Spanish dialectal variation in phonology tends to conserve vowel quality while modifying consonants or dropping them, I would be surprised if it’s consistently [ɑ]. [j] -> [ʒ] is a Rioplatense thing (Argentina and Uruguay)—see Yeísmo—not really Peninsular Spanish. I personally hear the common (not limited to any regional variant) Spanish allophone of [j] as [dj], but [ʤ] is the more common transcription. 87.187.76.66 12:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The usual sound of "y" in Spain is actually [ʝ] or [ɟ], but I don't know how they pronounce it in Llanito. 213.37.6.106 15:15, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know I'm coming to the discussion two years late, but I've lived in Gibraltar my whole life and the llanito pronunciation is clearly [ʒ], as it is in Argentina and Uruguay. I'm trying to find a source for this, rather than my personal experience, but it's hard without access to a good university library. This could though be what David Levey is referring to on page 1 of his book when he says “certain Canary Island and South American phonetic features have also been noted in the local pronunciation”. But without access to the right library, I can't look up the source he gives for this. Alboran (talk) 03:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: IPA

message: Are you sure that creole is the right name for this? I'd call it code switching but IANALinguist. -- Error 01:18, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not know about the grammar of Yanito, but judging from what is presented here, I do not think this is a real creole language. --zeno 12:19, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, this is nothing like a creole.  What it is is plain old code-switching between English and Andalucian Spanish.  --John Cowan 06:44, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
I think the example given in this article of llanito is not llanito but as has been rightly said above, code switching. Real llanito is basically creole Spanish  with no code switching to English but with many words which have english (or other) origin but are corrupted in form. There is no "but at the end of the day" or "im telling you"... A Gibraltarian should offer a more realistic example of llanito dialect to this page!.--Cassius80 19:22, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Creole? Code Switching?

message: Yes, it is, but "a fin de cuentas" is an expression with an identical or very similar meaning.
--Burgas00 12:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  at the end of the day 

message: :-) I have found the origin of the word "wo".Apparently it it entered Judeo Spanish through English. Its on the site of the Jewish community of Malaga..http://www.cimalaga.org/paginas/ingles/ofeverything.htm
--Cassius80 17:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: wo

message: I have erased the example of Yanito since it is more code switching than Yanito itself. Yanito is not about code switching at all. It is a dialect of Andalusian Spanish with English and other influences.
Is this so? I'm not quite sure how llanito should be defined, but debating whether it includes code switching, or consists of everything aside from code switching seems dangerously close to original-research territory. Do note that some linguists have called llanito a code switching language - See  87.127.73.65 02:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Code Switching

message: It has never being classified as a language by any of the linguists who have researched Llanito thoroughly. It is not standardised as any language would be. Regards, --Gibmetal 77talk 22:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Llanito is not a language 

message: Thanks RedCoat for reverting El estremeñu's edit again. I'll explain why we did so for El estremeñu's sake... 
The article should be categorised under Andalusian Spanish variants as Llanito is mainly based on this form of Spanish, as stated in the article. It should not be categorised under Spanish variants of Spain (which I assume means Spanish language variants in Spain) as Gibraltar does not form part of Spain. Regards, --Gibmetal 77talk 19:41, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct category 

message: Llanito is a language just as Croatian, Bosnian and Serbian are. Just because it is not recognised officialy it does not mean that it is not a language. User:Dale Buttigieg 01:05 10 September 2009 (UTC)
:I'm afraid you will find it is not. There are certain criteria a language has to meet before it can be called one. So far we can only be call it a vernacular. --Gibmetal 77talk 08:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Aye, I've noticed, some people from Gibraltar have a bizarre attitude towards it. That's not exactly unique though - in every part of the British Isles (bar some parts of Wales), people seem to have an inferiority complex about non-English culture and language. The combination of fond nostalgia and embarrassment is to be fond amongst speakers of Lowland Scots and Scottish Gaelic too. Some manifestations of this is that the "vernacular" in question is either ignored, or treated as a joke, or at least only fit for humorous material... or just to be used in suitably "couthy"/schmatlzy circumstances. Of course it's just a coincidence that the English language and culture is the only one to be taken seriously.--MacRusgail (talk) 17:27, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Is there an ISO subcode, comparable with en-GB for British English, such as es-ll? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:27, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That would only be possible if Llanito were a variant of English but it's not. It makes me wonder, however, whether Gibraltarian English would meet the criteria for an ISO subcode... --Gibmetal 77talk 2 me 13:44, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it would be possible if Llanito were a variant of Spanish (hence "es-"), which it apparently is, or indeed any other languagae. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:50, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry Andy, I misread your earlier comment. Thing is although heavily based on Andalusian Spanish, I wouldn't say it's a variant of Spanish either as it has to many external influences. It's very difficult to classify. I've lost count of all the papers I've read on language use in Gibraltar and no one seems to agree on what Llanito actually is! --Gibmetal 77talk 2 me 14:13, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Llanito is a language 

message: For the example:
Llanito: No puedo cocé la gallina porqué la tengo frozen...
Spanish: No puedo cocer el pollo porque está congelado...
English: I can't cook the chicken because it's frozen...
My understanding is that gallina is a Spanish word which is more specific than pollo/chicken, that is, hen. So why would the translation be pollo, not gallina, as well, and why would the English translation not be hen? Thisisnotatest (talk) 08:55, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: In this context chicken is being used as in the meat of the chicken, not the animal itself (cf. you wouldn't say "I can't cook the hen because it's frozen").   In Spain chicken (as in the meat) is invariably "pollo" whereas in Gibraltar "gallina" is the norm when referring to the meat.   To Spanish ears this sounds odd because "gallina" as you say, has a more specific meaning.     In much the same vein, in Gibraltar when referring to one's neck it's quite common to hear "el pesquezo" (rather than, "el cuello" as is the norm in Spain, with "pesquezo" usually reserved for a more anatomical context.)  RedCoat10 (talk) 11:53, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. That was very clear. That totally belongs in the article if there's a Wikipedia-acceptable source. Thisisnotatest (talk) 06:36, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: RedCoat10, Thisisnotatest In Spain gallina and pollo are used interchangeably for the meat of the hen. Gallina simply implies the chicken is a bit older. Pescuezo is slang in Spanish for neck an is not at all reserved for "a more anatomical context". Quite the opposite actually. When looking at llanito we should focus on differences with Andalusian Spanish. Frankly, beyond the code switching to English here, I see no difference with Andalusian Spanish, which is a shame since differences do exist - mainly in certain vocabulary. A new example should be provided incorporating SPECIFICALLY Llanito words and ideally avoiding code-switching since that is not the key characteristic of the dialect and its linguistic heritage. Otherwise we might as well call the article Spanglish. "llamar pa tras" is the only good example provided so far, but there are many more.Asilah1981 (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  is a native Gibraltarian FYI. WCMemail 07:24, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gallina or pollo for Spanish? 

message: Hola! Could we upgrade the Yanito examples section and turn it into a proper dictionary? There is plenty online to expand it!14:06, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Yanito

message: I've removed the vocabulary section.  There is in fact no official standard for spelling Llanito, its generally written phonetically when its put into a written form eg Ke for the Spanish Que.   However, I can see there being an interminable argument about sourcing this, with an unrepresentative form being imposed as one editor can source what he believes to be correct from an academic work (although that author makes it plain authentic texts in Llanito are not available and he has used his own form).  I feel it would be better not to have it, than to have a section which is wrong. WCMemail 12:32, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Sigh, thanks for the assumption of WP:AGF, I would prefer to simply discuss matters when there is a dispute.  Sadly too often it seems that people's egos rather than improving content and they have to edit war to get their way.  You might want to look at who put that dictionary in the first time; they were Gibraltarian.  Do what you like, if you genuinely wish to improve the article you'll have no problem from me.  WCMemail 14:34, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm trying to think of any word in Llanito of Haketia, Hebrew, Maltese origin... Any Yani que me pueda ayudar? Me da que apenas se usan nowadays...Llanimami2 (talk) 20:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: "Floosh" (money), which I understand is of Maltese origin. RedCoat10 (talk) 15:18, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: RedCoat10 I remember there was a Llanito word for money derived from old hebrew which is no longer in usage in modern Hebrew. Could you find out what it is, so we may add it? Floosh is indeed Maltese, although it is a cognate of Arabic floos.Asilah1981 (talk) 04:40, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of vocabulary section Comment 

message: As far as I know, the word chachi in Spanish comes from the Romani word Chachipén. Not sure if Llanito is the origin of this word. Napia is indeed related to Lord Napier (although a Romani origin is also proposed) but whether this came through Gibraltar or in the context of the Peninsular war is also debatable. But I agree that most of Llanito lexicon is also used in la Línea de la Concepción and that dialect has very much been influenced by Llanito. Asilah1981 (talk) 18:16, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Chachi?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have removed:
:battery, bateria; a policeman is known as la parma,
batería is a standard Spanish term for some kinds of batteries (cars, phones) and an common Anglicism for others (remotes).
It is not specifically Llanito or Andalusian.
La parma is a Andalusian rhotacist pronunciation of Spanish slang la pasma.
I don't know the etymology but it is not English.
--Error (talk) 12:23, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  English words with an Andalusian flavour. 

message: I'm considering removing the "citation needed" signs from the pronunciation guides. If anyone objects to that, feel free to respond here and we'll try to arrive at a consensus. I just feel that the Spanish pronunciation is pretty unambiguous. Erinius (talk) 04:45, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Llanito Pronunciation