Talk:Tartanry

message: This article needs a lot of work, to get rid of the bias. The writer is presumably one of those left-wing Scots who regards tourist-tat tartanry as an alien imposition on a sophisticated, educated nation. I do sympathise, although the view here is probably too one-sided for Wikipedia.
Suggestions:
* A picture would be good. A shortbread tin possibly, preferably one of those ones with Bonnie Prince Charlie on the front.
* A specific section outlining the arguments against tartanry - inauthenticity, cheapness, bestowing a sense of oppressed victimhood, dependence on tourism etc.
* A specific section outlining the arguments in favour - popularity amongst ordinary Scots, tourist income, the idea that tartanry opponents are embarassed to be Scottish, etc.
* I would suggest considering a light-hearted approach to this article.
I'd not bother with a merger with 'Scottish cringe'. Tartanry isn't a common term (it's used by academics - in fact it might even be possible to put a name to the origin of the term) - but I've never even heard of the 'Scottish cringe' before.
12:34 5th March 2006 (GMT) User:Nydas
: I can't think of where to find it, but Billy Connolly speaks out about this phenomenon in his stand-up. He doesn't use the term, but he does talk about "kilts, and Bonnie Prince Charlie, and 'roamin' in the gloamin' wi' Morag'". Finding a source for that would help. BeerMatt 10:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Is this not a synonym for so-called 'Walter Scottishness' - The 19th century romantic 'Disneyfication' of the idea of Scotland and Scottishness by Walter Scott and others.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.23.69 (talk) 12:09, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly sounds like it, though we would need a reliable source for that term.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:16, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

text: Never mind; I found the source, and will add this in a moment.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:25, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Walter Scottishness 

message: Everything I read in sources on tartary and Highlandism brings up Harry Lauder and the latter (interwar) music hall scene as instrumental in promoting tartanry and in maintaining negative native Scottish reaction to it.  But our article doesn't mention them, and this seems like a big gap. Here's a quote from Porter (1998) p. 2: "Appropriated by the Music Hall and Harry Lauder in the interwar period, tartanry came to represent, for Lowlanders, a garb to which they could claim allegiance only vicariously, through identification with the heroic image of the Highlanders who had once been their enemy ... The early modern phase of tartanry in the twentieth century ended in a debased popular culture of sentimentality, 'stage
Scotchmen' ....". Just one example.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:21, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music hall and Harry Lauder 

message: This source is chock-full of relevant stuff, and I'm just past the introduction:
* 
 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good source 

message: Clydesideism or Clydesidism or Clydeside-ism is another term (not to cover here, but to have in "See also"), but we lack an article on it.  It's been described along with tartanry and kailyard as one of the three "contrasting stereotypes and identities historically imagined" of Scotland, "myths of the 'nation', dominant images of Scotland in film that were identified by McArthur in 1982 but continually nuanced since." 
More specifically, there's a definition of it in this source, but it's behind the JSTOR paywall. Some partial text is: " Clydesidism, which constructs an industrial masculine Scotland, can be viewed as progressive. The basic argument of Scotch Reels was that there needed to be new ..."
A Word document here also addresses it. Partial quote from Google preview: "Clydesidism, for its part, offers an urban male working-class view of Scottish life based mainly on the heavy industries (often shipbuilding) of a Glasgow ..."
A more detailed abstract is available here, though I'm not sure if full text is available. Part of the abstract: "...the three dominant myths of Scotland—those stereotypical images of Tartanry, Kailyard and Clydesidism identified in the seminal collection Scotch Reels as characteristic of cinematic representations of the nation—were themselves based upon specific regions of Scotland (McArthur 1982). Briefly, Tartanry expressed a romanticized view of the Highlands and Islands as a place bypassed by history; Kailyard (or cabbage patch) depicted the parochial life of isolated, Lowland rural working class communities; finally, Clydesidism, constructs the myth of an “authentic,” masculine, working class urban life. Focused in and around the shipyards of Glasgow in the latter decades of the twentieth century when shipbuilding began to decline, Clydesidism in cinema increasingly drew attention to the position of the disenfranchised, post-industrial 'hard man', in opposition to the 'feminised' middle classes...."
Another source says all three of these motifs are explicitly masculist: "The Kailyard, tartanry and Clydesidism have no place for women ... there is no analogous 'lass o' pairts'; the image of tartanry is a male-military image." 
A Google search on "Clydsidism" turns up several more journal sources.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:13, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clydesideism 

message: Found this, but have not used it for article yet:
*  – Full text available.
Somethings else of possible relevance:
* 
* 
*  – A.k.a. The Scottish Nation: A Modern History (previous editions were titled The Scottish Nation: A History, 1700–2000 and just The Scottish Nation). Review says it covers tartanry and related matters (among much else; it's 768 pages). I have ordered a copy of the current edition.
* 
Two that may address Highlandism:
* 
* 
Something on Highlandism in visual arts:
* 
 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:25, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional sources