Talk:Dharmic tradition

message: Shouldn't this be merged with Indian religions? Yes, Dharmic religions is a better name, but there's no point in having two articles on the same subject, is there? 124.185.197.226 06:07, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge?

message: discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_September_8#Dharmic_religion. --dab (𒁳) 07:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The result was stay as disambiguation, with an overturn to restore editing history. Hornplease 18:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: DRV

message: Ok, so this page actually winds up being here to disambiguate one term among .. one other term, Indian religions. The fact that four subcategories of that topic have their own articles listed under it isn't really disambiguation. Seems more like inconvenient redirection to me. And this page looks to me like one of those unfortunate and ill-conceived articles that survives AfD merely to placate someone -- in this case, those who believe dharmic religion (like taoic) is not the neologism of a wiki-editor. Just my outside opinion, I have no interest in it either way. Eaglizard 08:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know. This is properly a dab page between dharma and Indian religions. the former is the more narrow sense of "dharmic", while the latter is the referent of the Encarta/Frawley neologism. This should be made more clear. --dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: why not simply redirect and add a hatnote at the redirect target? -- Fullstop 23:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dab page to one article 

message: I think this phrase is simply a list of religions (Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, and Sikhism) and I think it should be list for clarity. Andries 08:41, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Listing of the religions

message: Awaits consensus.
Namaste in agape
Walking my talk in Beauty
B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 02:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Namaste. The material you added is interesting, but will need to be supported by verifiable sources. Otherwise it will be deleted as original research(OR), which is not acceptable in Wikipedia. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I entirely agree.  There were some good ideas in there, but this page recently went through a deletion process specifically because it was not supported by reliable sources.  I was sorry to see so much work lost, but this page needs much more careful referencing.  bikeable (talk) 04:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should the debate on this auspicious auspice now be re-opened? 

message: Dharmic tradition (Dharmic religion) refers to any religion, worldview, philosophy, ethos, coterie or tradition that has a conception, notion and/or doctrine of the meme of Dharma. "Dharma", as the cogent substratum and demarcation of commonality, is the favoured auspice; not the provincial (in the locational sense) "India" -- as not all Dharmic Traditions originated in India, e.g. Zen.  Dharmic Traditions are living traditions throughout the World and are not circumscribed to the locale of India and the sphere of Indian peoples.
In scholarly discourse, the ambiguous and nebulous "Indian religions" is sometimes employed to denote "Dharmic Traditions"; that is: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Tantrism, and Sikhism, etc., and individuals and coteries not necessarily identified with larger traditions, for example Mahasiddha, Alvars, siddha, rishi, pundit, sadhu, yogi, tantrika, babaji, etc.  In exegesis of the aformentioned "ambigious and nebulous" nature of the term "Indian religion", it is disfavoured in academic discourse as it may refer to "indian" in the denotation of "indigenous", indian as in Indian "continent" or Indian "nation"; and/or any religion or tradition originating, at one point evident in, or currently extant in India.  Dharmic religion is also problematic as certain schools and sects of the Dharmic Traditions neither envision nor style themselves as "religion" due to interplay of nirguna brahman, mysticism and anatman, etcetera. Tradition is also favoured as the term "religion", rooted in the etymon "fetter" connotes the binding of dogma as has been evident in the general Judæo-Christian experienceIn evidence of general Christian dogma refer Sacred Tradition for example, qualified by List of Christian mystics, etc., whereas the entwined traditions of parampara and sadhana and the knowledges and realisations that emerge have perennially encouraged and valued direct realisation and experience of DivinityAnd this is the Dharmic denotation of the etymon "fetter, fasten, hold, etc." to the Mysterium Magnum (cognate with Brahman) of the cognate field of yoga, religion, dharma, yantra, etc.  and/or Mysterium Magnum; refer Perennial philosophy.  That said, "Dharma" is also an etymon of "to fetter, to hold".  Hence, it is to be remembered that the nesting of the term "Dharma" within the Judeo-Christian Graeco-Roman lexical paradigm "Religion" though comfortable, is guarded.  Therefore, Dharmic Traditions as an inclusive and unifying auspice is increasingly favoured in scholarly discourse and common currency.
In addition, the term "Hinduism" is a nominal attribution external to the culture, whereas  Sanatana Dharma was and is, self-identification.  Sanatana Dharma is often employed simply to denote "Hinduism"; this is a misnomer, as Sanatana Dharma refers to "Eternal Dharma" and all Dharmic Traditions are expressions and permutations of Sanatana Dharma.  This resolved unity in divergence would be explained in Dharmic lore through the tale of the Blind Men and an Elephant. 
::Dharmic Traditions is not a neologism, it has been attested in debate (refer archived discussion that brought about the recent deletion of an earlier generation of this page), as well as appearing in peer reviewed literature. Though its usage might not be as common as other auspice and categorical terminology, this does not counter the importance and notability of the topic.  Dharmic Traditions resides within the ken of a number of Wikipedia projects, I would appreciate an administrator advising the appropriate way to bring these various stakeholders and communities on board with the development and citation of this article.
:::These articles are subsumed within this topic and may also be used to substantiate and extend the defence of this auspice:
* Buddhism and Hinduism
* Jainism and Buddhism
* Dharma (Buddhism)
* Indian philosophy
* Yoga
* Dharma
* Chhatra
* Buddhism
* Jainism
* Hinduism
* Sikhism
* Vajrayana
* Dzogchen
* Zen
* Dharmachakra
* Sudarshana Chakra
===Notes===
Thanking you and yours in anticipation
B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 00:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The extensive use of this obscure term in many general Wikipedia articles undermines the credibility of Wikipedia as a whole. Andries 07:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help requested to substantiate this view by citations 

message: Thanking you and yours in anticipation
B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 00:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The extensive use of this obscure term in many general Wikipedia articles undermines the credibility of Wikipedia as a whole. Andries 07:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: Zen is generally considered part of Buddhism, so there is no contradiction and hence the word "but" is misleading. Andries 17:56, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Zen is generally considered part of Buddhism

message: if this article talks about Dharmic religions as a class of religions, it should rely on substantive discussions in reliable sources on comparative religion, stray one-sentence references would only merit a disamb or redirect. much of the discussion on terminology is unsourced or poorly-sourced original research and synthesis, and is pov, to top it. Doldrums 10:38, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  B9 hummingbird hovering's additions 

message: "may (though not necessarily)"s are not needed on a disamb page,  it's a given that the term being disambiguated has multiple uses. i see no reason why three among the various sects of Hinduism and Buddhism need to be singled out for mention here, rather than simply link to the Hinduism and Buddhism article, in which all sects are given due mention. for these reasons, i've tried to rework the page to this. pls explain why these changes have been reverted.  Doldrums 08:43, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hummingbird's revert