Talk:Fearless (2006 film)

message: If he didn't have any offspring how can he have any grandchildren?
: (warning spoilers!) he apparently had several children in real life. The movie takes liberty a bit by not showing them (and yet not specifically stating he didn't father any children between when he returns to shanghai and when the movie ends). 
: Also one only needs to look at Fist of Legend to see he had a son!
::Well for one thing, Fist of Legend, as well as Fist of Fury are highly fictionalized accounts. Fearless, while less fictionalized than those two earlier films (that weren't even set in the same era), is still a dramatization of Huo's life. Some corners were cut. Obviously, in his wanderings throughout China, he managed to father some children. It's a controversy that only adds to the legend of this folk hero.Wisekwai 19:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Grandchildren?

message: "However, he plans to his career in other film genres;" 
eh?
: changed -- mh 12:20, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  awkward  

message: I will miss Jet Li and his contributions to martial arts films.
Yes it seems the era of having great martial arts experts (he was one in real life) such as Jet Lei, Jackie Chan, Sammo Heung,
and Bruce Lee is ending, with newer generations being increasingly more uninterested in the study of martial arts. Though these great figures brought the martial arts from Asia and introduced them to the world. Wongdai 11:05 6 April 2007 (UTC)
:He's not dead! He can make more movies. (and is doing so) --70.142.49.24 09:08, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thankyou Jet Li 

message: The movie merges these two into one boxer who is neither Russian or British but American surprise surprise.
It was a 1901 match with a Russian wrestler in Xiyuan Park, Tianjin that first made Huo famous. The wrestler had openly insulted the Chinese, calling them "Asian weaklings" or "Sick Man Of the East" because no one would accept his challenge to a fight. Huo either defeated the wrestler or the wrestler forefeited the match, which was widely publicized by news papers.
In 1909, Huo, accompanied by his apprentice Liu Zhensheng, traveled to Shanghai to accept an open challenge posed by a British boxer named Hercules O'Brien. The match was preceded by disagreement over what rules it would be governed by. O'Brien insisted on Western boxing rules limiting attacks to punches above the waist. Huo, on the other hand, was more accustomed to the rules of Chinese leitai challenge matches, which lacked such restrictions. They finally agreed that the first person to knock down his opponent would be considered the winner; however, the match never took place and Hercules O'Brien fled the area before the date of the match.
: I don't think there is much "controversy" in this... the film is not so much based on the real life of Huo Yuanjia, in fact I will estimate that only 25% of the film has some relation with his real life.  This more stuff is more suited in the article Huo Yuanjia. -- mh 12:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed -- what is the controversy? I guess the OP takes offense to the fact that a couple of Europeans were genericized into an American. Because, you know, western film *never* genericizes Asians, right? It's a movie, get over it. 24.6.99.30 19:39, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that it's a Chinese film, rather than an American film, it can hardly be said to be a case of Hollywood altering history to make Americans more prominent. Blue Order 22:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedians read this and perhaps add to the controversy section

message: "The third time was the last moment when Huo decides not to land his fatal punch, though it could be seen that he had simply lost too much strength from the poison to deliver the punch with the same effect he had against Qin."
I thought they both AGREED that it wouldn't be a fight to the death. -Raijinili 23:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I watched the Chinese version, and I don't think this is the case. When they both arrive on stage, Tanaka says to Huo that he understands that the matches have been unfair and will not object if Huo chooses another opponent. Huo refuses to do this, and then Tanaka says that he will not hold back. Huo replies by saying that he will be honored (by Tanaka's not holding back). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Waterchan (talk • contribs) 02:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The last fight 

message: When the japanese diplomat replaced huo's tea with the poisoned one, did Anno Tanaka realise at the end of the movie? To me, it is strongly implied as a yes. There is evidence that supports it, and is strongly shown when the japanese diplomat said "Who say?, Who saw it?" after Tanaka gave the victory to Huo when they were walking out of the arena. Anno Tanaka replied "I saw myself" and then went on telling him that he was a disgrace to the japanese people. Also right after Huo collapsed from his final blow, he said "wait" and held him, observing his face and it looks like he realised or must have seen. This also shows that he must have realised that he was poisoned. 
I am pretty sure that Anno Tanaka did know at the end.
:Um, yes? I thought it was fairly obvious, what with Jet Li barfing blood all over the guy. Kind of hard to pass over that. 24.6.99.30 19:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The poison 

message: In the English sub-titles, Tanaka tells the diplomat (after the match) "He (Huo) won. You better get that through your head." And yet some versions of this article have Tanaka saying "You are a disgrace to the Japanese people." Is this due to a difference between what Tanaka is saying in Japanese, and what the sub-titles translate that as? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blue Order (talk • contribs) 21:22, 5 January 2007
:the actual dialogue has Tanaka saying “I have lost” followed by “I cannot deny it in my heart” then “you have shamed the Japanese”
:No, because the "you are a disgrace" line also appears in the subtitles. However, the subtitles may (and probably did) get revised between the original Chinese release and the American re-release. I saw the Chinese version, which is where the "you are a disgrace" line appears, and it's noteworthy that some of the subtitles in that version are incomplete. Some of the translations were enclosed in parentheses and punctuated with question marks as if they forgot to finalize it. Naturally that wouldn't seem professional in the official American release, so the subtitles were probably revised. Would be helpful if a Japanese-speaker cared to make a direct translation for us. 24.6.99.30 19:55, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That "you are a disgrace" line is not in the sub-titles in the American release. Instead, Tanaka first says "He won" and the diplomat (Mita) says "Who said he won"? to which Tanaka replies "I said it!" Then Mita says Tanaka threw the match; Tanaka responds by shoving Mita up against the column and saying "He (Huo) won. You better get that through your head." Maybe there's a different set of subtitles in other releases, but that's what the subtitles say in the American release. Blue Order 22:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's just a translation difference.  What motivated it is not something I will bother speculating about as it will either be made up fiction or tantamount to original research.  What I will say is that the difference in script between the original dialogue and the english dub when released in America is quite baffling.  Usually what happens is culturally esoteric lines are changed, but something like 'you are a disgrace to [your people]' isn't something americans can understand?  Oh well.  Piepants 13:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

text: In the Japanese print, Nakamura Shido says "Omae wa nippon no haji da" which does translate literally as "You have shamed Japan." Doceirias 04:14, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Before he does that, when he is walking out of the building, I think he also says in Japanese "Make da" to the diplomat, which means "I lost". (I watched the Chinese version with English subtitles.)--Waterchan 02:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tanaka's words 

message: Shouldn't the article make some reference to wushu, since thats what a ton of the movie is about? Unfortunately, I don't feel knowledgeable enough to make such a contribution. -- Kevin (TALK) 00:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not necessarily. If every article about a Chinese martial arts film had to discuss the background of Wushu, that would be a lot of redundant text in this wiki. You can add a See also section with a link to Wushu if you believe the history of martial arts is especially relevant to this film. Ham Pastrami 21:34, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wushu

message: :Image:Fearless dccover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Fearless dccover.jpg

message: Someone check that these changes follow the manual of style, please. --Raijinili 05:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:MOS]] check 

message: :Image:Fearless film.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Fearless film.jpg

message: I just deleted the last paragraph of the plot summary because it didn't seem to match what I just saw.  Tanaka doesn't say anything about the poison being the "real disgrace", but simply says that his manager had "better get used to" the fact that Huo had won.  (Maybe the Chinese version has different dialogue, but the article is titled after the English version so I thought it was best to stick to that)  And the final scene was definitely not the first meeting - as I interpreted the scene, Huo appeared in an eerie white coloration in the starlight as the woman he had promised to return to looks on and cries, indicating that he was a ghost appearing to fulfill his promise (or a telepathic/precognitive/religious vision, or any number of other scenarios).  I didn't have a sourced interpretation and it seems presumptuous to insert my own when there are so many possibilities, but at least I could delete what I saw as inaccurate (in a memory why would she be crying?).
:I suggest you create a separate section about the endings of different versions of the film (Chinese release, North American release, Asian release etc). _LDS (talk) 07:15, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: To be clear, I haven't seen these other versions; I just know that the title version Fearless didn't contain the dialog indicated. Wnt (talk) 00:35, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final scenes details 

message: In the "Connections with other films" section it says that Nakamura Shido was an extra in the 1994 film "Fist of Legend". However, on Nakamura Shidō's Wikipedia page (linked from this article) it says that he was in his first film in 2002. Those two "facts" don't make sense together?  Muziki (talk) 22:05, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I cannot find anything to verify this passage; it may be misinformation.  The burden is on the person who added it, so I removed it. Erik (talk | contribs) 22:11, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nakamura Shido in Fist of Legend? 

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thread_title: File:Jetlileitai.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: "Huo Yuanjia then sees his father in a leitai match with another martial artist named Zhao, who won the fight dishonourably by retaliating when Huo Endi was distracted by seeing his son at the match."
I just watched the film, and have seen it about a dozen times, and I didn't notice Huo Endi seeing his son at the match, I'm not saying that it didn't happen but I don't think that's the reason why he lost the match. Earlier in the film, Huo Endi was shown practicing his palm technique on a large slab of stone with a tattered cloth on top of it, the young Huo Yuanjia later sneaks into the area at night and looks at the stone and he can hear grains of sand falling from it, he touches the towel and the stone falls- it had been split in two by his father's palm technique but it was balanced in a way that the cloth was holding it together. Going back to the fight, toward the end Huo Endi delivers what would appear to be the same palm technique but he stops right before it hits Zhao on the skull, you can clearly hear the air rushing around him because of the force and Zhao's eyes open wide. The two fighters look at each other for a moment and both know that Huo Endi showed restraint when he could have seriously injured, if not killed, Zhao. Both fighters paused for a moment, and were probably off balance, when Zhao attacks him again- perhaps this was the moment when Huo saw his son, but even if he did how would Zhao have realized what was happening? Zhao acted dishonorably because he felt the force of the blow and knew the fight would have been over if he delivered it, but he didn't care and he chose to attack Huo anyway.
This fight/move is paralleled toward the middle of the movie when Huo Yuanjia is enraged and he fights Qin- he uses his equivalent of the palm technique, which is a powerful twisting punch that decimated Qin and ultimately led to his death. At the end of the movie, in the final fight scene while Huo is dying from poison he delivers the same move, but he stops before he hits Tannaka. Both men look at each other and realize Huo could have seriously injured if not killed him.
--Akechi77 (talk) 21:27, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot Section Misleading 

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