Talk:Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon (2003 TV series)

message: This was recently added to the lead section:
:The plot in a nutshell: A great evil, consisting of Queen Beryl (a disgruntled, spurned ex-resident of the Moon Kingdom who stands around in a cave most of the time), her four generals, and an amorphous energy-needing blob (is there a better description?) named Queen Metallia/Metaria attempt to steal energy so that Beryl can take over the world. Standing in their way are the Sailor Senshi (five high-school-aged girls: a ditz [Sailor Moon], a genius [Sailor Mercury], a miko with unusual powers [Sailor Mars], a tomboy [Sailor Jupiter], and a J-pop idol [Sailor Venus]); two beings that appear to be sentient stuffed cats (Luna and Artemis); and Tuxedo Mask, a jewel thief in search of a mystical silver crystal. Later in the series, Metallia and Sailor Moon each get too powerful to be reigned in, and the conflict shifts to attempting to postpone the inevitable destruction of the planet Earth. (It looks like Earth is plunged into darkness and not actually destroyed per se, but the effect is the same.)
I don't think the lead is the appropriate place for it; ordinarily I would've just moved it to a better spot, but I can't figure out where it should go, so I'm putting it here for comment. It also needs to be written in a more encyclopedic tone; I don't mind doing that job as soon as we find a place for it. --Masamage 19:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It should probably be twinned with the comparisons section.  Other than that, I'm not sure.  Maybe after productions, before comparisons? - Malkinann 03:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The online Translation of the offical plot summary is : 	
　Energy of the people (organism energy) you took, organization “dark kingdom” of the badness which designs terrestrial conquest had prevailed in society. Among such, the tenth junior high school 2nd grade month hare sewing encounters involving the cat which talks Lunar and can give the ability to change to the beauty girl soldier sailor moon. It cries with [doji] and the insect the girl, does not confront to dark kingdom it becomes necessary. The sailor moon, Mercury, [mazu], Jupiter and [vuinasu], with encounters the soldier of the companion who was said, means to fight together. 　As for the “month hare” with the various troubles which were said as a sailor soldier, in addition as a normal junior high school student, studies, diet, and love, with although, everyday doing the karaoke box commuting, the brain weather which song now comes the girl. The rabbit which not only life of the easy rabbit, when it is the big occurrence which influences the destiny of the earth knows the encounter with sewing involving cat “Lunar,”, is surprised. 　As for appearing before such a rabbit, organization “dark kingdom” of badness and, mysterious thief “tuxedo mask” of the puzzle which rescues pinch. That “dark kingdom” aims it makes the stone which has the power which becomes unknown “the silver crystal of vision”. 　Sailor soldier vs dark kingdom, the fire cover of the offense and defense which is related to the “silver crystal” cutting, it was dropped! As for the sailor soldier, the town, being possible to protect the people from dark kingdom? 
There are obliously some mistakes... perhaps it will help you though! Lego3400:  The Sage of Time 03:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Um...I think it'd be easier to become fluent in Japanese and translate it myself than try to wade through that. o_O --Masamage 05:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The second one is just too confusing, and I don't like the first one because its riddled with POV and seems to be written by someone who doesn't even care for the series.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 07:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Haha. It struck me as being someone who does like the series, but doesn't like to admit it. ^_^ --Masamage 08:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot summary 

message: http://hicbc.com/tv/sailormoon/chart/chart.htm I thought this would be an interesting addition to the page if some one Translated it (and put the translations in with paint, gimp, photoshop Etc. Lego3400:  The Sage of Time 00:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charcter Relations 

message: do the dvds have subtitles or voice overs? Sailor cuteness 18:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not voice overs, definitely. I don't think they've been officially released with English subtitles, either. (They've been fansubbed, though, and are available online.) --Masamage 20:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  dvds 

message: I just cut a lot of fansites out of the External Links. Most of the ones I left are sites I've personally used as a reference when working on SM articles, which guided my choice. Just mentioning that here in case anyone wants to recommend one of the ones I removed, or express concern about one I left. Here is a diff. --Masamage 17:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fansite trimming 

message: I just found this screenshot, and it's significantly better than what we're currently using. Since I uploaded the current one anyway, and since it's smaller and doesn't show her costume and has a time stamp, I feel pretty good about switching the new one in and will probably do so tomorrow. Heads up! --Masamage 07:53, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking about this PromoCard here. Not only doe show her ENTIRE outfit, it also shows her Sword. --Lego3400:  The Sage of Time 21:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Much harder to source, but it's a possibility. My main issue is that the bright light makes all those white details indistinct. Also, she's smiling. X) And bright pink background make me itch. --Masamage 21:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Potentially, yes. The major problem is that Usagi's page has very little unique text about PSM. I'm about one episode before that arc in my current watch-through, so mostly what I'm hoping is to refresh my memory enough to get some things written in there. If I fail at this, then yeah, a smaller image will be better. (I forgot it was in both places. I'm a sucker for a lack-of-timestamp. ^^;) --Masamage 05:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Princess SM image 

message: Okay, I've formatted it up and added it. What do you all think? Would it be best here or at List of Sailor Moon episodes? While I'm thinking of it, I'll add a note there that this is here. --Masamage 23:04, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's far better here.-Malkinann 21:41, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, I'd like to ask: does ayone oppose from adding plot summaries to each episode, too? 189.82.101.11 (talk) 02:34, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it! Please keep in mind that they should be your own write-ups, try not to interpret the episodes too much, and please try to keep the word count under 200 words for each episode (WP:MOSTV).-Malkinann (talk) 01:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode list 

message: I'm looking for one that was a translation of the original site.... anyone happen to know that one? It's one where Ayaka Komatsu said she'd learned a lot from Naoko Takeuchi... >.<;; I should have saved it.--Hitsuji Kinno 15:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Looking for PGSM interviews

message: I noticed that in the Super Dance Lesson section, it mentions the songs "Here We Go! -Shinjiru Chikara-" and "C'est La Vie~ The Loving Part Inside me" - why is one song title given in translated form and one in the original Japanese form? Which one is supposed to be used for consistency? Kerochan no Miko (talk) 15:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We should probably give both, using the  template. -Malkinann (talk) 21:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Both of those are in the form they're presented in in Japanese; those aren't translations, just subtitles. Shinjiru Chikara means something like "Believe Power", and C'est La Vie means "That's Life". --Masamage ♫ 00:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the proper title of "C'est la Vie" is "C'est la Vie ~ Watashi no Naka no Koi Suru Bubun." I'm referring to the second part of said title being translated in the article, whereas the second part of "Here We Go" isn't. Kerochan no Miko (talk) 02:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ohhh, I see. Yes, that should be consistent. --Masamage ♫ 16:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Song Titles

message: Based on this discussion, it seems it might be beneficial to split this episode list off into its own article; there are so many that it could improve readability and help with the focus of this page.
I don't anticipate this being super controversial, but please sound off with your opinions here! If there are no objections, I'll go ahead with it in a few days. --Masamage ♫ 02:21, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yair, sounds good. :)  --Malkinann (talk) 02:36, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, it's fine with me --Lego3400:  The Sage of Time (talk) 00:58, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split 

message: Since the US manga rerelease started, it seems that -- at least for Kodansha Comics -- "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon" has become the official translation for the title in all incarnations. As such, it no longer uniquely identifies this series. --Shay Guy (talk) 15:00, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, it needs to be moved. I would say move it to "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon (live action series)", or possibly "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon (2003 TV Series)". 75.138.18.70 (talk) 22:54, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed move to "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon (tokusatsu series)" or "Sailor Moon (tokusatsu series)" 

message: This edit by me was reverted because some guy thinks the alternative title is not accurate. I used the source that mentions this series as "live-action television series", not "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon". Why would the source mention the series as that instead of either the current title or "Sailor Moon"? --George Ho (talk) 03:38, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: This television show was never broadcast in English under the name "Sailor Moon" so there is no reason to suggest that "Sailor Moon" is an alternative title for this program in English. Simply because some ancient ANN article just barely mentions that this exists in association with the franchise as a whole does not mean you can add the information you did. It does no feature any title for this. It simply says that this exists.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 05:37, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Links:  and . This uses official title. --George Ho (talk) 07:49, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: None of that is proof that this is solely called "Sailor Moon". It just says that a live action Sailor Moon exists. Not that this show was called "Sailor Moon". And frankly, it should be taken for granted that this may just be called "live action Sailor Moon" in some contexts.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:57, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon" redirects to "Sailor Moon", and the live-action series has been disambiguated. Numbers for the live-action series had been misleading until disambiguation happened. If you are against the current title, please explain how it fails WP:CRITERIA. --George Ho (talk) 23:20, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No one was looking up this article's former title and expecting to go to the main Sailor Moon article. They would just look up Sailor Moon. As far as I am aware, this show was exclusively referred to by the PGSM variation of the title because no one but you recognized that the official English translation changed from the PSSM variation. But none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand. There is no reason to include "Sailor Moon" as an alternate title of the tokusatsu drama when it's already in the God damn title.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 05:02, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  What about this and that? --George Ho (talk) 05:28, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop cherry picking sources that refer to this show but not by the full title in English. Particularly because one is just about Saban Moon. Everyone knows this is the live action Sailor Moon because "Sailor Moon" is in the full title. You have no roof that it's shortened like the anime and manga were when they were translated because this never left Japan to receive that treatment.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 05:43, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Recently, I have used the whole current title (without dabs) in Bing News to search for the live-action series, only to find Crystal in many (if not most) sources out of 89 articles. I tried Google Books as well, but no luck. Perhaps it's no longer a commonly-used name in 2010s? --George Ho (talk) 06:08, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't retroactively change the established name of a TV show because no one cares to talk about it 10 years after it stopped being broadcast.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 06:21, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

text: Perhaps I'll propose instead. --George Ho (talk) 06:31, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Just examine what you're asking here. You want "Sailor Moon" to repeated in the lead paragraph just because you are finding that the show has been called just "the live action Sailor Moon" recently. It's not needed. How many times do we need "Sailor Moon" in the first paragraph?—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:41, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  In that case, why not another RM? Perhaps "Pretty Guardian" looks extraneous, even when part of "official" translation. --George Ho (talk) 08:05, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it:s part fo the title that everyone used for this series. Again, you can't possibly expect to retroactively change the name of this show just because you found out that what everyone used to call it was actually the new official translation of the name for the whole franchise. And really this is petty. The show is called "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon" in English officially, and people just refer to it as "that live-action Sailor Moon". That is not justification enough to move this page, again.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 08:30, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not "everyone". People seldom mention the whole "official" title, especially in books and articles. Also, WP:AT neither encourages nor discourages official titles. I don't see how Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon is commonly associated with the live-action series. Reading your replies, are you denying that the whole title is more used for the whole franchise and less (if not seldom) used for the live-action version? --George Ho (talk) 19:26, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No. I'm telling you that in English the franchise is just "Sailor Moon" while this was always known by the full title except in these sources you're pulling that are just saying "there was a live-action series too". If you just look up "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon" in Google, you're going to get a lot more results showing you this TV show than any other one because no one was aware that the official translation changed until Crystal came out this year. There is no need for this article's lede to go "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon, sometimes referred to as Sailor Moon, is a Japanese tokusatsu television series based on the Sailor Moon manga..." It's taken for granted. There's no need to change this article's name again. There's no need to be so redundant and specific in the lead paragraph. Again, this was PGSM long before anyone realized that the main franchise no longer called itself PSSM.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 21:09, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Web results don't count. They may include fansites and other less reliable sources. Also, finding reliable sources in Web results is time-consuming. --George Ho (talk) 21:27, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If it shows that the name is used for this then it shows that we do not need to move this article or add a redundant alternate name.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:25, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Most of them in web results still unreliable and not authentic. Blogs do not count either. I used both terms "Sailor Moon live action" and "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon live action" in Google and Bing without luck. As for DVDs, the only ones are Region-2 releases. Region-1 customers have not received the series officially. Neither have Regions 2 and 4. Therefore, the Region-2 products cannot be the sole reason to call it Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon. --George Ho (talk) 22:44, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: None of that matters. If "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon" is what this is commonly called, we do not need to also append that it is sometimes called "the live action Sailor Moon" to the lead paragraph to have the phrase "Sailor Moon" repeated 3 times. You have no proof that this show is soley called "Sailor Moon". You only have a bunch of souces referring to it as "a live action version of Sailor Moon" and not "the live action Sailor Moon". Only one source does this, and one explicitly calls this by the article's present title.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 23:07, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

text: Which reliable sources use "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon" as referring to the live-action show? How many such sources to determine commonality? Don't try to make me search for it again, do you? --George Ho (talk) 04:13, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: What I am telling you it's that it is extremely unnecessary to have "Sailor Moon" a third time in a row in the God damn lead paragraph. We know this is Sailor Moon. You simply have no proof that the show was ever simply referred to as Sailor Moon because none of the sources you provided give the name of the show and instead just refer to this as, paraphrasing, "that live action version of Sailor Moon". I am done arguing this shit with you. Get a third opinion at WP:3O already.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 08:16, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding back "Sailor Moon" in lede 

message: wants to offer a third opinion. To assist with the process, editors are requested to summarize the dispute in a short sentence below.
; Viewpoint by Ryulong: It's not necessary or supported by reliable sources provided to say that this show is also just called "Sailor Moon", when we already have that phrase in the lead twice.
; Viewpoint by George: Many, if not most, sources rarely called this live-action series "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon". Instead, they call it "Sailor Moon live-action series", "a live-action series" of Sailor Moon, or whatever they unofficially call it. While official title from the Region 2 DVD is used, adding back "Sailor Moon" in lede helps readers realize that using a shorter title is okay. Whatever the outcome, I will propose a page renaming someday. #2: Oops... I didn't realize that the opening of the show also uses the current title.
; Third opinion by AmritasyaPutra: At present the article title is "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon" and there is no clear reliable source that explcitly supports the position that this show is called as just "Sailor Moon". Using the official title from the Region 2 DVD seems a fair and reasonable approach. I think we should leave it at that. Thank you. --AmritasyaPutraT 11:03, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third opinion 

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thread_title:  External links modified