Talk:José Antonio Primo de Rivera

message: Jose Antonio presente!", which could be translated "I, Jose Antonio, am present!"
Correct translation is Jose Antonio,present without I and am present,normaly together with España,una,España,grande,España,libre,caidos por Dios y por España,presentes,"Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera,presente",Francisco Franco,presente,arriba España,arriba. (Translation <<Spain,one,Spain,big,Spain,free,Fallen for God and Spain,present,Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera,present,Francisco Franco,present,up Spain,up)
===It´s wrong===
<<Falange Española ("Spanish Phalanx"). The party is now outlawed.>>
This is false,this political party lived in our days,you can see in his page ( http://www.falange.es/ ) and in spanish´s elections you can vote this party.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.24.61.212 (talk) 05:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: It´s wrong again

message: <<Falange Española ("Spanish Phalanx"). The party is now outlawed.>>
This is false,this political party lived in our days,you can see in his page ( http://www.falange.es/ ) and in spanish´s elections you can vote this party.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.24.61.212 (talk) 05:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: It´s wrong

message: The article says that José Antonio became a very common name in Spain after his death. Did it become commoner than before? --Erri4a 21:13, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: José Antonio as a given name

message: Hi there,
The introduction states that Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera is "generally referred to simply as José Antonio". This is true, but almost exclusively in pro-Franco or pro-Falange or sympathiser's circles, at least in Spain. I'm removing it, and editing the rest of the article in that respect to keep NPOV and a modicum of encyclopaedic tone. Also changed a few references to "assassinations" to killings, which is a bit more neutral considering soldiers in a war can only be considered as "assassinated" in very particular circumstances which the article does not in any way validate. Dr Benway 13:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: simply known as '''José Antonio'''

message: Falange and Jose Antonio wasn't fascism  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.19.126.127 (talk) 00:03, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Falange and Jose Antonio 

message: Because Elizabeth Bibesco's (née Elizabeth Asquith, daughter of the former Prime Minister of Great Britain) last novel (The Romantic, 1940) was dedicated to José Antonio, it has been conjectured that there might have been an intimate relationship between the two during the tenure of Prince Antoine Bibesco as Romanian ambassador to Spain in Madrid from 1927-1931. This suspicion is perhaps borne out by the following - 
Shortly after the death of Elizabeth Bibesco in 1945, her cousin-in-law, Marthe Bibesco, wrote a long memorial essay. In it Marthe revealed that Elizabeth had shown her a letter written by José Antonio Primo de Rivera from his cell the night before his execution. This letter could have been shown to Marthe at any time after Rivera's execution as Elizabeth and Marthe both resided at the same address in Paris and both spent the war years in Romania. Here is the pertinent part of the text of Marthe Bibesco's "In Memoriam" - "José Antonio Primo de Rivera, à la veille de son exécution, écrivit à Elizabeth Bibesco de sa prison. Elle m'a donné à lire cette lettre; je ne sais pas de plus noble hommage rendu a l'esprit de justice d'une femme par un homme sachant qu'il va mourir. Il en appelait a son jugement. C'est ainsi qu'Elizabeth sur cette terre d'Espagne, déchirée par la passion de l'absolu, eut la force de rester elle-meme."
In her essay, Marthe Bibesco has much to say about how open Elizabeth was to friendships on all sides of the Spanish question, from the exiled King and Queen to Azana (to whom, from London, she unsuccessfully appealed for the release of José Antonio), Madariaga and Dr. Marenion. Of Elizabeth's relationship with Jose Antonio, Marthe wrote,  "Elizabeth Bibesco inspire confiance et la plus vive sympathie à l'homme meme qui allait incarner la réaction espagnole et mourir pour sa défence: José  Antonio Primo de Rivera." I'm not sure that "la plus vive sympathie" can be interpreted as "love" but it goes some way toward explaining the dedication in The Romantic - "To Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera - I promised you a book before it was begun. It is yours now that it is finished - Those we love die for us only when we die - "
I have it on the authority of Elizabeth Bibesco's daughter that all Elizabeth's papers (probably including this letter) were destroyed during the war in Romania.
 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.35.57.99 (talk) 02:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Possible Relationship between José Antonio and Elizabeth Bibesco 

message: The following quote is provided: 
"The young dynamic leader of the Falange was, like his father, a great admirer of Great Britain and spoke fluent English. He had been repelled by Hitler on his one visit to Nazi Germany in the Spring of 1934 and regarded the Nazi officials he met with as depressing and rancorous. Had he lived, a major struggle between him and Franco would probably have been inevitable. Unlike the dour Franco, Jose Antonio was an accomplished orator, intellectual and parliamentarian. His execution by Republican forces in 1936 was a grave mistake."
I am of the opinion that the last sentence should be left out, as it has no bearing on the rest of the quote, and is POV. 82.176.209.52 (talk) 13:01, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death 

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*Added  tag to http://www.fundacionjoseantonio.es/imagenes/Jose_Antonio_Velarde_Falange.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the opening section: "A founder of a Fascist party, he critically fascistised afterwards, as he progressively radicalised in an anti-conservative direction". I can't make sense of this sentence. Should probably be changed but I don't know to what. Vectoor (talk) 15:04, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that paragraph is a list of several apparent contradictions in his life. He founded an unmistakably fascist party. Yet his personal political thought became more fascist afterwards (because blablabla).--Asqueladd (talk) 16:04, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

text: It just means he founded a Fascist party but he personally fascistised further after that. Is it supposed to come across as "contradictory"? Well, yes... PRECISELY. Because it is in a paragraph detailing the apparent contradictions in his biography, which is how the cited source presents the individual. I am aware of my limitations and I welcome any improvement in the prose, but you probably are not aware you should not modify sourced content... without consulting the source. You could have just asked what the source stated instead of modifying the lead to fit something nor supported by the source, or coming here acrimoniously to drop name-calling (conveying something akin to a personal attack). By the way, surely the English-language has a "non-verbose" way to express that the biography of an individual features contradictions, although you are hellbent on removing it, even if it is sourced.--Asqueladd (talk) 05:24, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: What does this mean?

message: The expression in English is poor with too verbose a style. I had a change (small one) to the syntax reverted by  talk:Asqueladd in 2020. 
Asqueladd, you need to be aware of your limitations in writing in English. Please accept  that there are native English speakers that think they know better. 
It is hardly encouraging that someone like me, trying to be helpful, has a syntax edit reverted.
It is amazing that Asqueladd does not question himself after somebody above already flagged, sorry to say, this gibberish.
Yet the problem above is the tip of the iceberg.
The article has other issues with expression,  needless quotes, and worst of all, the neutrality of the point of view, in common with many other articles on Spanish history.   This does not happen much in comparable areas elsewhere e.g. in relation to French history (an area I know well) be that in French or in English. 
The net result is that frighten off people like me that could genuinely help and readers have to put up with mediocrity in relation to Spanish affairs on English Wikipedia.
TGcoa (talk) 00:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It just means he founded a Fascist party but he personally fascistised further after that. Is it supposed to come across as "contradictory"? Well, yes... PRECISELY. Because it is in a paragraph detailing the apparent contradictions in his biography, which is how the cited source presents the individual. I am aware of my limitations and I welcome any improvement in the prose, but you probably are not aware you should not modify sourced content... without consulting the source. You could have just asked what the source stated instead of modifying the lead to fit something nor supported by the source, or coming here acrimoniously to drop name-calling (conveying something akin to a personal attack). By the way, surely the English-language has a "non-verbose" way to express that the biography of an individual features contradictions, although you are hellbent on removing it, even if it is sourced.--Asqueladd (talk) 05:24, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Many problems with this article 

message: The phrase "even though he had been imprisoned long before the insurrection of July 18" seems intended to imply that suggestions of his involvement in the coup were absurd, even though just the previous sentence states that "In both Madrid and in Alicante, he was able to maintain intermittent secret contact with the Falange leadership and, several times, with General Emilio Mola". 2A00:23C5:1203:CE01:A9D1:A753:5A70:6488 (talk) 13:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Complicity in coup