Talk:Sports-related curses

message: Comment, I'm indifferent to merging or keeping, but most of the other "curses" on the sports-related curses article have their own main article. If we were to by guided by that precedent at all, it would lead me to a weak keep. --Cjs56 14:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buffalo Sports Curse Merge Discussion 

message: I don't think citations are needed in cases where the citation could be "look up the stats."  For example, the Tampa Bay curse has "citation needed" 3 times.  One does not need to cite something else that gives the facts of teams having lost to Tampa Bay.  It's a compiled fact, not a piece of research.  Any one with common sense can choose to verify it by checking results of past games.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.227.129.47 (talk) 19:06, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not so many citations needed 

message: After the Columbus Destroyers lost to the San Jose Sabercats in the Arena Bowl, a student writer in one of the Ohio State campus newspapers suggested a few reasons why four straight Ohio-based teams, both collegiate and professional, reached the final in their respective sports, only to fail to win the final, ending up number two.  Among the scapegoats were the 2004 election and fallen former Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett.  Now with the Tribe having lost to the Red Sox, the "curse" might have extended, but then again, since football seasons are labeled by the starting year, we have yet to determine the fate of the 2007-2008 Buckeyes (Wisconsin, Illinois, and Michigan will be tough).  This curse is somewhat tied into the Cleveland sports drought, as two of the teams involved in this "curse", the Cavaliers and Indians, are in Cleveland.
I personally do not believe in real curses.  As Manny Ramirez said after winning the 2004 World Series MVP, you make your own destiny.  The first of the second place/runner-up finishes was the only shocker because of the great expectations of the Troy Smith-led Buckeyes and the completely lopsided result.  (I personnally think Big Ten and SEC teams should really play each other more often in the regular season.)  The NCAA Basketball Final Two was as big a deal because the same schools faced each other (Florida and Ohio State), but this time, the Buckeyes were the underdog because Florida was the defending champion (those basketball Gators certainly had a chance at a three-peat if all could have stayed, but good luck to those players now).  After that, the Cavaliers (versus the Spurs, whom even the 2005 Pistons couldn't beat) and Destroyers (totally a Cinderella story, but the Sabercats were like the Spurs in their league) were total underdogs.
However, there will still be some who would add this jinx here, but if it lasts only one year, then it is not too worth mentioning.  Of course, if one of these teams acts like the ninties Bills...
DaDoc540 20:34, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  2007 Ohio Sports Curse?  Maybe not 

message: I have an issue with the notion of breaking a curse. For example, "The Curse of the Black Sox was a superstition or scapegoat cited as a reason for the failure of the Chicago White Sox to win the World Series from 1917 until 2005. It was finally broken when the White Sox won the World Series in 2005." No. If you have an outside event, in this case the Black Sox scandal, that imposes a curse of a World Series drought, then you would have to have an outside event intervene in order to lift the curse. If, for example, baseball lifted the expulsions of the Black Sox, and the White Sox won the Series after that, that makes sense. In other words, if opening a door represents winning the World Series and the Black Sox scandal represents locking the door, then how did the 2005 White Sox open the door without unlocking it? You have to remove the curse before you can do the thing that the curse prevents you from doing. If the Black Sox prevented the White Sox from winning all those years, then how did they win without doing anything to the Black Sox? They didn't; they lost all those years all by themselves. I'm not picking on who added the White Sox Curse to the list; this goes for the 1940 New York Rangers too. I just added the Curse of Nolan Ryan to the article, so if there really is such a curse the Mets would have to hire Ryan as a pitching coach or something like that before they have their first no-hitter.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not pooh-poohing the notion of a sports curse. I would say that the Red Sox broke their curse not by winning the World Series (if the curse is that you don't win the Series, you have to break the curse before you win the Series), but by making the Yankees, the team at the heart of the Curse of the Bambino, the first baseball team ever to blow a 3-0 lead in a seven game series. Jimpoz (talk) 19:34, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breaking the Curse Without Breaking the Curse 

message: I can think on the top of my head that the steelers chuck Null and the Patriots Bill Belichick have one twice in arrow so obviously its not a curse or limitation  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.137.117.166 (talk) 04:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lombardi Limitation 

message: Since Anaheim won the 2007 Stanley Cup, there is no need to keep the Curse of Detroit, unless there's a valid reason...--24.78.101.193 (talk) 00:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove Curse of Detroit 

message: Not gonna do any digging to back it up, though anyone who's lived in Seattle can verify that the climate of 'heavily overcast most of the year' isn't very conducive to some sports.  Noting that the NBA holds their Final Four in March (tail end of the gloomier skies) while the NFL season starts in Fall, aka when the clouds start showing up in the calendar year in Seattle.  As this is just discussion I'm just throwing this out there for it.
68.98.76.217 (talk) 03:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible Explanation for Seattle Curse 

message: It should be noted that according to NHL records, Tampa Bay did not technically endure four consecutive 50 loss seasons.  When the NHL made the change to start counting overtime losses (OTLs) separate, the change was made retroactive to I believe the previous year.  As a result, all of the games the Lightning lost in overtime that year were converted to OTLs, bringing their straight loss total to below 50 games and absolved them of that dubious mark.  It's a stupid technicality, but it should be noted.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.77.226.249 (talk) 19:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tampa Bay Curse (Lightning) 

message: As far as the Curse of Len Bias is concerned, I think another coincidence that should definitely be taken into consideration is Red Auerbach's date of birth and year of his death: Red was born in 1917, and he died in 2006. Coincidence? I think not. Mr. Brain (talk) 14:49, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Auerbach: 1917-2006 

message: I understand sports fans and players are a superstitious bunch, but I think a lot of these curses are a little silly.  Some of these seem to be in the realm of "my team didn't go undefeated and win the championship game 400-0, so there might be a curse."  In every sport, only one of the 30-something teams gets to win a championship, everybody else will fall short.  I think for a sports related curse to be on this page, it should have to be a REALLY noticeable, strong curse.  The Curse of the Bambino, The Billy Goat Curse, and the Cardinals Football curse are strong examples of this imo.  The Bay Area curse is not to me.  While I think the Giants were the better team over the Angels in the World Series (and the Giants would've won in 6 games had Dusty Baker simply left Russ Ortiz in the game), losing a championship game is not an indicatior of a curse, since many teams do that every season.  I personally think there is a curse (imaginitavely though, I don't really believe in curses) on the Los Angeles Lakers due to the game 6 horrid officiating against the Kings in the Western Finals in 2002, that the Lakers will never win a championship until giving the trophy to Sacramento who deserves it, but if I were to put that up on this page, it will just get more congested.  The Curse of Detroit is pretty silly too.  Detroit has had an awesome team for years.  Beating them is an indication that you have a good team yourself, so why is it surprsing that said team would advance to the finals?  Also thought the Curse of Denis Potvin was kinda lame.  I'm sure Potvin wasn't the only player who retired that year from that team, why aren't they the reason for the curse?  And the 1969 curse... a team lost the NLCS, so they're cursed?  I get that it's notable that they passed the Mets to win the division, but there was only 5 other teams in the division that season.  That not that big a coincidence that they passed the same team that blocked them from the '69 World Series.   Am I missing something here?  Long story short (too late) this list should be seriously trimmed down to highly noticeable curses like the ones mentioned above.  Leave out the "X team hasn't won a championship in 4 years, and last time they won a championship, I dropped my team hat on the ground on accident, so that must mean they're cursed" stories out of here.
63.81.133.153 (talk) 19:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  That's a lot of curses 

message: This is an awful, awful article, a big mess of original research, synthesis and just plain made up stuff. Would anyone object if any material of dubious notability that isn't sourced and/or linked to a standalone article removed wholesale? --Mosmof (talk) 23:25, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the thing - I really have no idea where to start since there's so much cruft and original research to wade through. At this point, I'm thinking it's just worth it to purge anything and everything that isn't adequately sourced or linked. If, say, a few babies get thrown out with the bathwater, those babies can always be put back in. --Mosmof (talk) 11:08, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

text: This article is a complete disaster and should really be deleted. I guess the next best thing is to trim out all the fat, which wouldn't leave much. Enigmamsg 18:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup, pretty please? 

message: I saw that there was a lot of talk about cleaning this up, and a few months have gone by without changes, so I went ahead and removed the sections on the "Thirteenth Season" curse and the "Ben Tillman" curse. If you object, then add them back in with references. In the case of the supposed "13th season" curse, you can name many more teams who stayed in one place for more or less than 13 seasons than who moved at 13 seasons. St. Louis & Arizona Cardinals, Milwaukee Brewers, Atlanta Braves, Indy Colts, Tennessee Titans, Baltimore Ravens, etc. etc., so this does not appear legitimate. As for the "Ben Tillman" curse, 1) no references were provided, 2) the nature of the alleged curse was never explained, and 3) numerous of the examples were unclear in how they related to the alleged curse, or what they even meant. If you disagree, then feel free to dig up some published sources, and tie them together as a coherent section. GuySperanza (talk) 19:30, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed a couple more sections. Please avoid WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Being bad at sports is not a curse. A statistical quirk is not a curse. A coincidence is not a curse. In fact, curses are not real.  Unless a ""curse"" meets Wikipedia's standards for notability and verification, please do not add them. --Mosmof (talk) 04:21, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed two sections 

message: You want a citation?  Here's your citation... http://www.neworleans.com/sports/sports-blogs/brian-allee-walshs-blog/299542-new-orleans-saints-notebook-mission-to-overcome-tampa-curse.html
Here are the stats, a quote from that newspaper article...
[copyvio removed]
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.188.166.126 (talk) 01:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't copy copyrighted text here.  =)  Powers T 00:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tampa Bay Curse 

message: ````The NBA on TNT has covered conference finals games since the NBA on NBC termination in 2002. Since then the TNT covers the Western Conference Finals in 2003 between the game against the San Antonio Spurs and Dallas Mavericks. The Confernce Champion of the TNT broadcast won the NBA Championsip against the New Jersey Nets 4 games to 2. But since then, as they covered the conference finals, their conference champions covered by the said network failed to win a NBA Title. All of the winners of the NBA title from 2004 are from the ESPN and ABC.
Here are the series of the TNT sports curse:
2004 Western Conference Finals:
Los angeles Lakers vs Minnesota Timberwolves
Lakers win 4-2
2004 NBA Finals:
Lakers lost to the Detroit Pistons
4-1
2005 Eastern Conference Finals:
Detroit Pistons vs Miami Heat
Pistons win 4-3
2005 NBA Finals:
Pistons lost to the San Antonio Spurs 4-3.
2006 Western Conference Finals:
Dallas mavericks vs Phoenix Suns
Mavericks Win 4-2
2006 NBA Finals:
Maverick Lost to the Miami Heat 4-2
2007 Eastern Conference Finals:
Cleaveland Cavaliers vs Detroit Pistons
Cavaliers win 4-2
2007 Nba Finals:
San Antonio Spurs vs Cavaliers
Cavaliers lost to the Spurs 4-0
2008 Western Conference Finals:
Los Angeles Lakers vs San Antonio Spurs
Lakers win 4-1
2008 NBA Finals:
Lakers lost to the Boston Celtics
4-2
2009 Eastern Conference Finals:
Orlando Magics vs Cleaveland Cavaliers
Magics win 4-2
2009 NBA Finals:
Magics lost to the Lakers
4-1
2010 Western Conference Finals:
Los Angeles lakers vs Phoenix suns
Lakers win 4-2
2010 NBA Finals:
Lakers won against the Boston Celtics 4-3, which ends the curse.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.170.197 (talk) 02:35, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  TNT's Conference finals curse 

message: Sports jinxes is a newly created article that clearly ought to be merged into this one, IMO.  Fishal (talk) 04:18, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Delete Sports jinxes and redirect here? It's basically the same subject, but one article is less crappy than the other. Mosmof (talk) 05:05, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there anything there worth saving? Fishal (talk) 13:08, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, without any citation, I can't tell whether any of the "jinxes" has any traction with the public or stuff made up by the user. --Mosmof (talk) 02:11, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: And I see you've PRODed the new page.  I won't contest it.  I still think it would be better to find sources for those "jinxes" and merge the pages, but it's not my topic or my article.  WP certainly doesn't need a huge depository of unverified information. Fishal (talk) 21:43, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge discussion 

message: The San Francisco Giants have just won the World Series.
69.181.226.238 (talk) 02:31, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Curse of Coogan's Bluff has just been broken 

message: Jack Kent Cooke died to get his name on the stadium. But it was eventually removed, and renamed FedEx Field. Which to this day, the Redskins have never been good.
*The Curse O' Les Boulez is a interesting thing I just heard of on Yahoo.
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2011/2/18/1998879/discussion-how-do-you-compensate-for-being-a-wizards-fan?ref=yahoo
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/achenblog/2010/03/the_curse_of_les_boulez.html
--Knighthonor (talk) 04:27, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing the Jack Kent Cooke Stadium curse on Redskins, and The Curse O' Les Boulez

message: Please don't re-insert information that has been determined by a consensus of editors to not be sufficiently notable for the topic of the curse of 1940. See Talk:Curse of 1940#Repeated re-insertions of information for additional discussion. isaacl (talk) 00:04, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't reinsert this information, even if commented out. isaacl (talk) 22:08, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Please don't re-insert this information. isaacl (talk) 17:06, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Curse of 1940 

message: Even though the Giants won in Arlington, TX, they still won the World Series away from New York. Or do the Giants have to win in San Francisco to break the curse? 69.181.225.149 (talk) 20:47, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are the Giants still under the curse of Coogan's Bluff? 

message: If you need an idea of the Riot Curse, just check all winners of the cup since 1994 Vancouver Cup Riot, not a single Canadian team has won the cup since. 96.49.236.239 (talk) 15:43, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Riot Curse 

message: I suggest that all the curses should be grouped with their respective sports in alphabetic order and not just alphabetized in general. This article looks like a mess, no real order here. Hitmonchan (talk) 19:41, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a year-and-a-half old, but a very valid point. This article isn't really a list of things that are alike, and we'd be served better with better organization. I suggest creating sections based on sports and another one for whole cities. Mosmof (talk) 18:27, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hello 

message: The consensus at a recent AfD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/San Diego sports curse , was to redirect—not merge— San Diego sports curse over here at Sports-related_curses#San_Diego_sports_curse.  There was major concern in the AfD over original research on the San Diego curse.  However, since the redirect, material from the old version of San Diego sports curse has been mostly merged over here without much additional reliable sources to address the OR concerns.  Generally, nothing bad about San Diego sports should be added here unless a reliable source directly attributes it as being part of a curse.  I will be removing content where these sources are not cited.  Feel free to add back anything that can be verified to not be OR.—Bagumba (talk) 22:45, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  San Diego curse 

message: I believe broader issues are being overlooked: it's true there is no dispute about the fact that the Padres and Rangers are the only two teams with two World Series appearances without a championship victory. The real questions are whether or not this is more notable than being one of eight teams who have not won the World Series, or one of six who have World Series appearances without a victory; and which (if any) of these statistics are best suited for placing the Padres' lack of World Series wins into context. I suggest that mentioning the Padres are one of eight teams without a victory suffices to provide the desired context. What do you think? isaacl (talk) 03:18, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Pads and Rangers:  If it is true (nobody has presented a source) my bigger concern is that it is WP:OR of some random fact scoured through looking at all the WS results, as opposed to some fact that a reliable source specifically noted and wrote in prose.—Bagumba (talk) 03:42, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

text: I've added cited text about eight teams w/o winning the WS.—Bagumba (talk) 04:33, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: World Series victories and appearances by each team can be found at http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ . Personally, I wouldn't have restored the request for citation multiple times, given that it is indeed a non-controversial matter. (For example, you haven't given any sources for the Padres two World Series defeats, but since there's no dispute about it, there's no particular need to provide citations in this article.) isaacl (talk) 05:07, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The difference is text that is WP:CHALLENGED is usually cited, and I wouldn't have a problem if one in good faith contested it.  What's obvious to one could be unknown to another.—Bagumba (talk) 05:37, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Technically, for the Padres losses, I should transfer over the citations from List of World Series champions or 1984 World Series and 1998 World Series, but since I know the information is already cited there, I don't feel compelled to do so for these very basic facts. In a similar vein, since the total victories and appearances are already well sourced in List of World Series champions, I don't feel an urgency to request citations in this article. isaacl (talk) 05:42, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I get its a pain to follow WP:CIRCULAR, but it's pretty hard to verify things when one doesn't always know where to look. All is fine until its contested.  WP wouldn't have the amount of content it does if everything needed to be cited, but that needs to be tempered by the fact that we all joke that you can't believe everything in Wikipedia because quite a bit is unsourced and false.  The consensus at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/San Diego sports curse was that all the SD content there (that editors later merged here) was OR, largely because its verifiability was not contested for the longest time.—Bagumba (talk) 05:58, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I considered opening this section with the question of whether or not a "San Diego sports curse" was notable to start with, but for better or worse, there are sources for it (sportswriters need to write something on slow news days). I quite agree there's a lot of facts that get strung together that aren't specifically notable, and I will request citations for statements where, for example, it's unclear how they relate to the subject. Thus my questioning of whether or not there is a more appropriate context that can be given for this topic, rather than spending effort re-inserting a citation request for basic facts that I quickly determined were, in any case, true. isaacl (talk) 06:31, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  San Diego Padres 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Would the Minneapolis St. Paul region (with two major sports leagues titles in half a century) count as a region that is cursed? Or would the Minnesota Lynx and their WNBA titles (four in six years) exclude the idea of a sports curse for the region? Wikidude10000 (talk) 21:31, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minnesota Sports Curse? 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Why is there no Minnesota sports curse? The Vikings might be the most cursed sports team of all time, the Twins cannot win a playoff game, the Wild and T-wolves have no championships. The North Stars and Lakers leaving town. This seems like a sure fire layup for a section on this page that is just completely missing for some reason  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:1483:C0E2:D020:30F1:E9B8:4AC1 (talk) 14:59, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minnesota sports? 

message: Is it possible to mention the Kirk Cousins curse in this article? I believe the section does not qualify under WP:NOTE and I believe its only really talked about within one article and NotJoeFlacco's podcast. While I do follow NotJoeFlacco, does it really qualify under WP:NOTE? Swagging (talk) 13:42, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think there should be multiple reliable sources cited to satisfy WP:DUE.  And I don't believe the one source that was cited was even reliable. —Bagumba (talk) 17:05, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

text: In my opinion I'll wait for a little and see if bigger websites like ESPN or Bleacher Report or the media begin to talk about it more in the future for right now. Swagging (talk) 21:48, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia does not automatically include everything that is true. Per the policy WP:ONUS: —Bagumba (talk) 02:05, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kirk Cousins Curse? 

message: Should there be an ITV Curse for England football fans?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.191.233.62 (talk) 11:10, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: ITV curse

message: Curse of Yatagarasu（八咫烏の呪い）。　FIFA World Cupで日本代表(Japan national football team）と対戦したチームは優勝できない。　1998 FIFA World Cupで初出場して以来、2022 FIFA World Cupでアルゼンチン（Argentina national football team）が優勝するまで、1度でもFIFA World Cupにて日本と試合をした国は優勝できなかった。
このほかに、「裏・八咫烏の呪い」という、Knockout stageで日本と対戦した国は、その年の優勝国に敗れるという呪いもある。--118.238.207.207 (talk) 12:03, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Curse of Yatagarasu 

message: The Dallas Cowboys should have a supposed curse as they have not been to the NFC championship game nor have won or been to the Super Bowl since the 1995 season. They have gotten close several times only to lose in heartbreaking fashion in the Wild card and divisional rounds. Jared L 9999 (talk) 01:37, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dallas Cowboys curse 

message: dont the  the Dallas Cowboys have a supposed curse.
The Dallas Cowboys have only won 5 playoff games since 1996, and have had great teams after 1996 but only to lose in heartbreaking fashion. Since after their last super bowl win, the Cowboys record in the playoffs is 5 playoff wins and 12 playoff loses, and have yet to appear in the NFC Championship game/or a Super Bowl in that matter. Jared L 9999 (talk) 18:54, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dallas Cowboys. (Curse of The Jones or Curse of Texas Stadium?) 

message: Regarding some recent additions to the article:
Messi has won the Champions League four times, so he is hardly cursed just because his team has been knocked out in the last few years.
Similarly, Saudi Arabia are currently ranked by FIFA as the 49th best team in the world. They have been as low as 126th within the last ten years. Failing to reach the latter stages of the World Cup is hardly surprising and stretching credibility to blame it on a curse. MaximumOccupancy (talk) 12:33, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  When is a curse not a curse? 

message: while the Cardinals won in 47 they are often seen as cursed by the town of Pottsville after the events of the 1925 season ending with the Cardinals winning the championship after Pottsville was thrown out of the NFL. 158.135.169.72 (talk) 03:39, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about the Pottsville curse on the Cardinals? 

message: Is there any reason not to do a thorough cleanout of this article? It's been tagged for its bad sourcing for years - David Gerard (talk) 13:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The only reason is people who like original research, poor sources, and lack of sources. The article definitely needs a cleanup. SLBedit (talk) 21:55, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full of bad sources, absence of sourcing and original research