Talk:Terminal degree

message: I've mostly heard the term "terminal degree" applied to people, referring to the last degree they've obtained, which appears to be the usage in the ALA quote:  That usage seems to clearly indicate that "terminal degree" applies to the person who is (or wants to be) an academic librarian. There appears to be no citation of use of the phrase "terminal degree" in the way this article uses it, and the paper on professional degrees cited herein never uses the words "terminal" nor "final". Argyriou 19:15, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Does this article need a complete re-write?

message: It may make sense to merge most of the existing content of this article into Professional degree, as the material is about professional degrees, not terminal degrees. An article on "terminal degree" which meets the definition cited in my comment above (and in the article) should not be merged with Professional degree. Argyriou 22:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: Someone added The degree required to practice without limitatation in a professional field is generally considered the terminal professional degree..  This directly contradicts the immediately preceding sentence, A first professional degree is generally required by law or custom to practice the profession without limitation. Further, the unknown editor removed a useful example of a non-doctoral professional degree which is not the terminal degree in the profession. 
I've reverted those changes, and will do so again if they reappear, unless they are very well cited. Argyriou (talk) 22:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  professional degrees 

message: At least in the UK, the degrees of Doctor of Divinity (D.D) and Doctor of Laws (LL.D) are not "advanced professional degrees" in the American sense, but rather "higher doctorates" awarded to eminent senior scholars based on the evaluation by an ad hoc committee of an extensive portfolio of scholarly publications submitted by the candidate. More rarely, British higher doctorates can also be awarded honoris causa, as they normally are in the US (especially in Ivy League schools). In either case, the degree is normally awarded without any university residence requirements or a final oral exam. 11:23, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Doctor of Divinity and Doctor of Laws 

message: The LLB and BCL degrees are not terminal degrees, and most sources agree that they are not professional degrees either.  Because they are not terminal degrees, they don't belong in the terminal degree article. Zoticogrillo (talk) 11:44, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: False. University of Melbourne lists the LLB as a professional degree. See http://undergraduate.law.unimelb.edu.au/go/courses/llb-and-double-degrees/index.cfm. Wikiant (talk) 13:32, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  LLB and BCL 

message: The phrase (and, indeed, the concept) "terminal degree" isn't in general use in the UK.  Does anyone happen to know if it's in widespread use outside the US, and if so, in what countries it does exist?  -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 22:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: After a quick search of other british commonwealth territories (b/c you mention UK), I found:
Singapore 
Hong Kong 
India 
Jamaica 
New Zealand [www.otago.ac.nz/education/staff/docs/research_costs_estb_staff.doc]
The use of the term, particularly in India and Jamaica, seems to be different than that in this wiki article.  I'm not sure that the above examples demonstrate the the usage is common within those countries, or universally defined. Zoticogrillo (talk) 00:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

text: Agreed. As a side topic: Is it possible that habilitation is equivalent to what, in the US, is promotion to Full Professor? Apart from the smaller 4-year colleges that tend to promote based on longevity and "service," in US universities, promotion to Full Professor requires the submission of a portfolio of published research of a significantly high standard. Wikiant (talk) 17:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  International usage 

message: I have an M.B.A. and have always seen an M.B.A. listed as a terminal degree.  Lately, because schools have been inventing a D.B.A., a bunch of sources have popped up saying that an M.B.A. is not a terminal degree.  This is fundamentally flawed to me, since a DBA is not seen as a progression of an MBA, nor have most MBA students ever heard the term DBA.  Many MBAs already have doctorates in other fields, or are CPAs or JDs already.  Furthermore, many jobs still require "a doctorate or an MBA," DBA programs don't require an MBA, and no level of job requires or pays more for a DBA versus an MBA (not even colleges.)  For these reasons, I would like this article to have, in its opening section, discussion of the abstract theory of what is a terminal degree--not just "a doctorate", but "the perceived stopping point in education within any subject."  MBA/DBA may be a great example for such.--Mrcolj (talk) 20:52, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The DBA is not a new degree, and the MBA has never been considered terminal (in my experience, MBA degrees issued by 4-year colleges are of significantly lesser quality than undergraduate business degrees issued by major universities). Your statement that "many MBAs already have doctorates in other fields" flies in the face of my 20+ years experience teaching MBAs. If you can produce data supporting that claim, I'd be incredibly surprised. Wikiant (talk) 12:56, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: How long has the DBA been around?  I don't know.  They may have existed for more than 20 years, but they haven't been common until the last few years.  But in my experience, where an MBA and a PhD in Business were considered different tracks, an MBA was therefore considered terminal (again, for the reasons I listed above.)  And the many google hits along those lines to me argue that this should merit inclusion in the article.  (I'm not sure what your point is about 4-year colleges not being as quality as major universities.  I agree with you on that.  But if you're arguing that a significant number of major universities offer DBAs, I'm not sure that's the case.)  Regarding "many MBAs already have doctorates," of course I don't mean "many" as an absolute number, but as a relative number.  The number of doctors going back for an MBA is a heck of a lot higher than the number of doctors going back for a M.A. in Biology.  Yet you know many people, and have probably seen many job listings requesting people, who have a PhD in some subject and then went back for an MBA.--Mrcolj (talk) 16:59, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  MBA vs DBA 

message: The MFA should probably show up somewhere in this entry.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.108.80.217 (talk) 13:26, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  MFA 

message: I would delete the opening of the second sentence "This phrase is in common use in the United States". Many educated people in the USA do not know the definition of terminal degree, and others have never heard of it. So for sure the use is not common.--Gciriani (talk) 14:28, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common use in the United States? 

message: "This phrase is in academic use in the United States but is little used outside North America. The term is not generally used in the United Kingdom or Canada, for example, and its exact meaning varies somewhat between those areas and disciplines in which the term is used."
Again, Canada is in North America.... Should be rephrased to "little used outside the United States".
24.244.29.59 (talk) 06:56, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canada is in North America... 

message: As long as we're not talking about a degree in computer science ('terminal degree'). MaynardClark (talk) 07:34, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: CompSci

message: I've made divisons because for instance if you studied Medicine, you wouldn't study any of the other healthcare type subjects, since they're all categorized together. So say if you see what people do it's like Doctor + Lawyer + Manager + Minister + Engineer + Educator + Designer 182.255.99.214 (talk) 13:06, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorizations 

message: Guild of Copy Editors volunteer here. I tried to add more sources to address the refimprove hatnote, and struggled with what is and isn't a terminal degree.  Both the MBA and MAT were listed in the lead as terminal degrees, but those statements were unsourced. The only validation I could find for the MBA as a terminal degree was a business school website, which is somewhat unreliable, but I left it in nonetheless. (aside: I am a bit puzzled that the definition of terminal as the bare minimum required to practice the profession works for an MBA, despite the fact that a DBA is a higher level business degree.) For the Master of Arts in Teaching (MAT), I couldn't find any sources to validate it as a terminal degree. This source (not really reliable itself though) says "Two terminal degrees in education exist: Doctor of Education (EdD) and Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Education." But, theoretically, wouldn't the MAT have the same relationship to the EdD and PhD as the MBA to DBA? Meaning you can teach with an MAT - you don't need to have an EdD or PhD to teach - suggesting a narrowly defined terminal degree. I'm curious to hear what other page watchers think, and to see if anyone can find a source calling the MAT a terminal degree. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 00:35, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  MBA and MAT as terminal degrees