Talk:List of Irgun attacks

message: The whole attribution is questionable. The Irgun website which takes pride at its actions during the fight for Israel's independence, shows that most of these attacks, if they indeed EVER took place were not done by the Irgun.
The whole article is a mere accusation, because Irgun denies those attacks to this very day.
217.132.77.167 17:57, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I found that a version of Perliger and Weinberg's article is free online at .  I didn't check if it is the same as in the journal, though I noticed some trivial differences. --Zerotalk 14:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Irgun website does NOT cite any of those attacks 

message: Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 100.
Our enemies called us terrorists. . . . And yet we were not terrorists. The
original Latin word “terror” means fear. If I am not mistaken the term “terror”
became current in political terminology during the French Revolution. The
revolutionaries began cutting off heads with the guillotine in order to instill fear.
Thenceforward the word “terror” came to define acts of revolutionaries or
counter-revolutionaries, of fighters for freedom and oppressors. It all depends
on who uses the term. It frequently happens that it is used by both sides in their
mutual exchange of compliments.
The historical and linguistic origins of the political term “terror” prove it cannot
be applied to a revolutionary war of liberation. A revolution may give birth to
what we call “terror” as happened in France. Terror may sometimes be its herald,
as what happened in Russia. But the revolution itself is not terror, and terror is
not the revolution. A revolution, or a revolutionary war, does not aim at instilling
fear. Its object is to overthrow a regime and to set up a new regime in its place.
In a revolutionary war both sides use force. Tyranny is armed. Otherwise it
would be liquidated overnight. Fighters for freedom must arm; otherwise they
would be crushed overnight. Certainly the use of force also awakens fear. 
Tyrannous rulers begin to fear for their positions or their lives, or both. And
consequently they begin to try to sow fear among those they rule. But the
instilling of fear is not an aim in itself. The sole aim on the one side is the
overthrow of armed tyranny; on the other it is the perpetuation of that tyranny.
Therefore the much discredited study of perlinger is removed from the LEAD as strict well-poisoning and wrong factual information, and restore to the previous correct version. Amoruso 21:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Very funny.  A thoroughly sourced study of terrorist acts is disallowed because one of the chief terrorists doesn't like it!  Now I've heard everything.  --Zerotalk 11:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So you admit it's an opinion of this writer perliger ? Therefore it's irrelevant and removed. It's obviously not the opinion of the people he claims to hold these opinions. At any case, it's of course in violation of wikipedia:lead. Amoruso 12:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Let's get this straight.  Are you saying that Etzel did not believe at the time that acts like those listed here were "legitimate tools in the Jewish national struggle for the Land of Israel"?  --Zerotalk 15:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Begin on terrorism

message: Please provide inline citations to an English language for all statements in this article. Andjam (talk) 12:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The source is given in the article. It is in Hebrew and has been checked by user:Zero0000. Ceedjee (talk) 11:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations please 

message: Please see the discussion about Irgun at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration#Category:Palestinian terrorists and Category:Israeli terrorists. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:59, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Jewish terrorism]] 

message: Needs more specific date but: Jerusalem Post 4-23-09: On March 30, 1936, the British inaugurated their Palestine Broadcasting Service (PBS), a radio station that operated out of Ramallah and, three years later, moved to this splendid site. The PBS had been broadcasting from Jerusalem for less than two months when underground IZL forces (Irgun Tzvai Leumi) bombed the building and two of the personnel were killed. The British went back to transmitting from Ramallah and, after the State of Israel was declared, this became the home of Israel Radio. CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: A new attack

message: Date             	Casualties                                                                                                                                           	Comments
June 26, 1938    	7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.                                                                                                              	-
July 5, 1938     	7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.                                                                                         	-
On the same day  	3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem.                                                                                       	-
July 8, 1938     	4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem.                                                                                                          	-
July 16, 1938    	10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.                                                                                        	-
July 25, 1938    	53 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.                                                                                            	-
August 26, 1938  	24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.                                                                                            	-
February 27, 1939	33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifaand 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.	-
May 29, 1939     	5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem.                                                                              	-
July 16, 1938    	10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.                                                                                        	-
July 25, 1938    	53 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.                                                                                            	-
August 26, 1938  	24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.                                                                                            	-
February 27, 1939	33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifaand 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.	-
May 29, 1939     	5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem.                                                                              	-
June 2, 1939     	5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem                                                                                         	-
June 16, 1939    	6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem.                                                                                                 	-
June 19, 1939    	20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.                                                                    	-
June 29, 1939    	13 Arabs were killed in multiple shootings during one-hour period.                                                                                   	-
On the same day  	6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv. July 20, 1939                                                                                    	
I will try finding references. Kasaalan (talk) 12:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted Attacks from the Table 

message: Irgun was zionist, why Zionism template removed. Kasaalan (talk) 18:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Why Zionism template removed

message: Didn't find any current refs but found this source with several new attacks. Any problems with adding?
From: Donald Neff, Hamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs,  May/June 2006, pages 14-15
*Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
*July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
*Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
*Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police    station.
*Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
*Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
*Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, the article is missing lots of 1947-1948 attacks.  Some of these are ineligible as we are only including cases resulting in death.  One thing I have found is that death tolls are unreliable; for that I suggest looking in the Palestine Post over the 1-3 days after the attack (not just 1 day after).  A link allowing free access is at the end of Palestine Post. For sources that give the Irgun attribution, Milstein's books are good, also Morris 'Victims' and some others.  WRMEA is too partisan to rely on solely. Zerotalk 05:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

text: OK, i went through http://www.etzel.org.il/ articles and got everything mentioning casualties and entering now. Also occurred to me the easy way to find refs for others is to go to books.google.com, type in the date and city or incident and see what comes up. A particularly good source with relatively easy access is: Terror out of Zion: the fight for Israeli independence by J. Bowyer Bell, Moshe Arens- 1996 CarolMooreDC (talk) 03:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: New: 1947 attacks

message: Besides the ones I did last night finishing of The Irgun website (and corrections this am) and one or two new ones this am, I could not find other refs down to June 23, 1938. I assume they are in Arie Perliger and Leonard Weinberg (whose web page and I assume book largely call Irgun  "Etzel," which should be mentioned in footnote??) and/or Bell and Arens (which one can only search so many times on books.google before they shut you out of searching, dang it.)  If someone has either, both, books, maybe they could look? I did notice lots of people are quoting wikipedia on this, often leaving the  note in there. 
I did find this ref which I think is ok but others might balk: April 17, 1938 An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa. 	
Who are the terrorists?: Aspects of Zionist and Israeli terrorism Page 5, by Muʼassasat al-Dirāsāt al-Filas īnīyah, Arab Women's Information Committee (Beirut, Lebanon), Institut des études palestiniennes (Beyrouth) - 1972 - 74 pages whose search summary reads:March 17, 1937 Four bombs thrown into Arab cafe's in Jaffa; 1 Arab killed,
10 injured. CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Status of refs

message: * Dec 10, 1947 - 6 Arabs killed, 30 wounded, bomb at Jaffa cinema
* same day        - 7 Arabs killed, several bombs at Damascus Gate
* Dec 12, 1947 - 4 Arabs killed, many wounded, bomb thrown at Arab bus in Haifa
These are in my notes but I'm far from home.  Maybe in Milstein.  Zerotalk 08:13, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: So then all the items have been restored and only those need references? Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:15, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  More needing references 

message: Why did you messed up the table and removed comments column out of it. It would be useful for adding references there, or more detail. Kasaalan (talk) 09:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed it myself. But try discussing before removing columns. Kasaalan (talk) 10:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I hardly "messed up" the table by removing a column containing nothing but "-" symbols. I didn't see the harm in removing it, or anything worth discussing, and I'm happy to see that adding it back took little effort once filling it with actual information became necessary.--Doron (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It tooks major time to readd columns and no little effort. Kasaalan (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your work! CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The column left for moving references or notes under it in the first place. If you can add a notes column for event details, or wikilink the dates I can seriously thank you too. Kasaalan (talk) 16:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Mess up of the table

message: Nableezy has reverted my following only change: from "107-120 Arabs killed..." to "107-120 Palestinians killed..." 
So my question is: what happens just in April 9, 1948 changing the Arabs from February 10, 1948 to the Palestinians? 
As I know, (as minimum) in 1948 all the Palestinian Arabs, Jews. Druzes, etc. were referred to as 'Palestinians'.  
- Igorp_lj (talk) 18:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Arab is too generic, but a clarification could be useful. Palestinian Arabs could be used. nableezy - 22:34, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who are the Palestinians in April 9, 1948 ? 

message: The following was posted into the article by an anon, I am moving it here: 
: The article itself now contains an obvious internal contradiction. In the summary, it says that 'during 11 years of attacks, 194-207+ Arabs (1 policeman, rest civilian)' were killed by Irgun attacks. Yet simply counting the individual incidents yields a total of 530. Others might interpret some of the entries differently (ethnicity isn't always specified, nor is the total body count) and come up with a slightly different total -- but not '194-207.' Between two and three times that figure.
I agree, it is old.  Probably it is OR to prepare such a total ourselves anyway.  I'm deleting it.  Zerotalk 10:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: During my edit time the numbers were accurate sum of the article. I noted they were sum of the article. One way or another without a sum of casualties, list based article is not that useful. We may recalculate the case, do not delete sum. I didn't review the article for a while. Kasaalan (talk) 11:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way are you sure about 530 civilians, my sum was accurate and 200, it wasn't even near 500. Did you add 300 civilian casualties. Kasaalan (talk) 12:04, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Lots of incidents have been added.  And there are probably more. Zerotalk 12:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely revised the layout and numbers. Until someone add a correct number, it is hundreds as a general term. Kasaalan (talk) 14:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved discussion from article 

message: "1938, February 27 	33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem."
was it in 1938(it should be put higher) or in 1939 ? it should be changed then  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely 1939.  Fixed.  Zerotalk 01:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  wrong date 

message: ..is mentioned. WHo or what is it?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yehudiya Zerotalk 01:23, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Yehudieh

message: Hi, I changed the name of the article from "List of Irgun attacks" to "List of Irgun operations" in order to broaden the scope of the article; instead of just attacks, now more of their operations can be listed (for example, prison breaks with no casualties).
Also, I am currently working on User:Ethanbas/List of Lehi operations; feel free to help out with that! Ethanbas (talk) 16:03, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Ethanbas. As I wrote on your talk page, I think the new title is an improvement over the old one, particularly from an NPOV perspective. Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 16:15, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hi all 

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thread_title:  External links modified