Talk:Northern and southern China

message: The identification of the Huai River as the historical boundary between north and south China is spot on. However, in modern China the boundary is generally perceived as the Yangtze River. Perhaps a note on this should be incorporated. Bathrobe
— Preceding undated comment added 00:26, 17 February 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Should it be northern and southern instead? :-) — Instantnood 13:12, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it probably should... -- ran (talk) 13:31, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: North and south sounds like talking about two countries, like those divided ones. :-D — Instantnood 13:47, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Well China here is not talking about state(s), but a geographical region. ;-) "North and South" also reminds me of the rich and poor divide. — Instantnood 07:08, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think there're some genetic differences as done by scientists on differences between Northern and Southern Chinese.  The Hans are not as homogenous as they would like to think. Mandel 01:25, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Humans are 99.9% genetically similar to Chimpanzees. Does it matter if you are 0.000001% difference within an ethnicity? 64.18.152.49 (talk) 12:36, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: North and south?

message: South China redirects here, Northern and southern China, but it is somehow not desirable.  In many case South China means 華南 or 南華, a region of South China, just like 華東 (East China), 華北 (North China), 東北 (Northeast China), 西南 (Southwest China), 華中 (Central China) and so on.  But the article suddenly jumps to the comparison of Northern and southern China.  It is simply not what South China means.  — HenryLi (Talk) 07:57, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: if you read right above you you'd know why, as for what you are refering to, yes it would most likely be better for South China to redirect to geography of China or something. --1698 07:05, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  South China 

message: This is to address the addition of the line within the Southern Chinese stereotypes that "they resemble other Southeast Asians". 
While you can imply that Southern Chinese share features that can be similar to Southeast Asians, I have to say that the 
formation of such sentence was done very poorly. To say they resemble other southeast Asians would be to imply that the southern Chinese were indeed in the southeast Asian category all along. That point is very debatable and controversial. Some may have strong views on that considering there have been wars fought over it. It would have been far better to have said it without the "other".
If any others feel the need to add that line in, then it would also be necessary to add an additional stereotypes to the Northern Chinese category, perhaps bringing up their Mongolian or Manchurian neighbors. Otherwise it would seem that this is going towards a more prejudiced area. To try to maintain as much of an unbiased page as much as possible, I have deleted that particular sentence.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ludacris321 (talk • contribs) 22:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Comparison of Southern Chinese to Southeast Asians''' 

message: oh really? to some, the 江南 region is also considered to be 南方, and the region, especially Shanghai, is known to produce fair-skinned people. and is Sichuan, which also has a great deal of pales, exactly northern (by most accounts), either? The climatic data, especially on humidity and total amount of sunshine, would also disagree with the article's assertions, too. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 23:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Stereotypes, which they are and are clearly marked as, are not necessarily accurate. Quigley (talk) 00:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

text: "By many of the Chinese"? That's not what I've heard, and in fact, I've heard the exact opposite. Until you can produce at least 5 studies (and yes I read Chinese), the bit about skin tone will stay out of the article. GotR Talk 23:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Skin colour and others 

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=TRuqcutRvUAC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.paragonbook.com/html/browsesubj/browse.cfm?regionid=5&subjectid=36&group=1&print=yes&RequestTimeOut=3600
http://www.cmecc.com/uploads/课本和论文/中国城市/[70][中国城市]Carolyn.Cartier(2002)Globalizing.South.China.pdf
Rajmaan (talk) 02:10, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Globalizing South China  By Carolyn Cartier  

message: I have requested a map for this article.  Although some maps are already included in the article, they all require careful readings of the text plus the map captions to discern how their content relates to the topic of the article.  Granting that the dividing line is ambiguous, I would still expect that one of the following might obtain: (a) someone has done an academic study regarding perceptions of North/South by Chinese people and lines could be drawn on that basis, (b) some government agency has autocratically decided the division and lines could be drawn on that basis (as in :Image:Us_south_census.png) (c) the  Huai River–Qin Mountains line referred to later in the article could be drawn alone on a map, or, if no single map is sufficient, (d) multiple lines could be drawn that reflect multiple commonly used divisions (perhaps in a rotating image file). Elatb (talk) 00:09, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map Request 

message: I suggest "southern" in the title of the article be capitalised. - 00:25 CEST on the 29. of May 2013  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:C440:20:1116:94D7:798C:E97:13A3 (talk) 23:27, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalisation 

message: Southern Han largely share the same Y chromosomes with the same mutations as northern Han, while differing in mtdna and autosomal DNA.. Due to southern Han being descended from northern Han migrants who moved to southern China and married native women
http://books.google.com/books?id=I2OMVmp-7mwC&pg=PA43#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://udini.proquest.com/view/how-han-are-taiwanese-han-genetic-pqid:1668343911/
http://gradworks.umi.com/33/43/3343568.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15372031
http://159.226.149.45/compgenegroup/paper/wenbo%20Han%20culture%20paper%20(2004).pdf
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v431/n7006/full/nature02878.html
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n6/abs/5201998a.html
Do not use the blog as a reference, but use it to find and cross reference other sources.
http://blog.renren.com/share/288113449/11798480444
Teochew, Fujianese, and Hakka Y chromosome compared in Singapore. The three groups largely share the same Y chromosome
http://scholarbank.nus.edu.sg/bitstream/handle/10635/27767/Summary.pdf?sequence=3
Differences between southern Han Chinese groups like Chaoshan, Hakka, and Cantonese is mainly in the mtdna lineage inherited from the mother, where some southern Han have heavy amounts of southern native mtdna.
http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-XAYX201006005.htm
http://online4kim.net/xe/files/attach/images/7507/170/020/0b9b8d714566edea3954827c018a3c88.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6590358575_7450cf0f53.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2131/yndahan.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5609/2008112521014723.jpg
http://www.ranhaer.com/attachments/forumid_48/1308171634806ad8e74f2ed197.jpeg
http://www.ranhaer.com/index.php
Taiwanese Plains Aborigines, Taiwanese people
有唐山公，無唐山媽
"Have mainland (Tangshan) grandfathers, don't have mainland (tangshan) grandmothers
http://books.google.com/books?id=I2OMVmp-7mwC&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=I2OMVmp-7mwC&pg=PA21#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://udini.proquest.com/view/how-han-are-taiwanese-han-genetic-pqid:1668343911/
http://gradworks.umi.com/33/43/3343568.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=I2OMVmp-7mwC&pg=PA43#v=onepage&q&f=false
Autosomal DNA
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/12/genetic-map-of-east-asia/#.U1XEV_k71C8
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/eastasiasmall.jpg
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0003862
http://www.plosone.org/article/slideshow.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003862&imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003862.t001#
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ro2ijOk8JWc/STq-lWLjfwI/AAAAAAAAAb0/wSNXMS5rG4o/s1600-h/journal.pone.0003862.g001.jpg
http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/journalpone0003862g0011.jpg
http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/journalpone0003862g0021.jpg
http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/journalpone0003862t001.jpg
Genetic tests on minority Zhuang Y Chromosomes show them to be of Baiyue descent, while they have some Northern Han y chromsomes due to migration of northern Han to southern China.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17185165
http://www.comonca.org.cn/LH/Doc/A30.PDF
A map of Baiyue ethnic groups in Southern China during the Zhou dynasty's rule over Northern China.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/MGSG/fig1mt72e.gif
http://s173.photobucket.com/user/MGSG/media/fig1mt72e.gif.html
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Milktaco (talk • contribs) 20:49, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Genetics

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=0DPEol7HO3gC&pg=PA213#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=0DPEol7HO3gC&pg=PA214#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=jqb7L-pKCV8C&pg=PA182&dq=Yellow+registers+white+chin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LDgWU4PhEo3H0AHpnIHICQ&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Yellow%20registers%20white%20chin&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=jqb7L-pKCV8C&pg=PA182#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=JTAcbF8cpQsC&pg=PA40&dq=Yellow+registers+white+chin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LDgWU4PhEo3H0AHpnIHICQ&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Yellow%20registers%20white%20chin&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=126EsR8rpC8C&pg=PA26#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=KS6sAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA181&dq=Yellow+registers+white+jin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8jcWU-GlF8Wj0QG89oD4DA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Yellow%20registers%20white%20jin&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=0wRikR7hhFQC&pg=PA67&dq=Yellow+registers+white+jin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8jcWU-GlF8Wj0QG89oD4DA&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Yellow%20registers%20white%20jin&f=false
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/MGSG/fig1mt72e.gif
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Milktaco (talk • contribs) 20:49, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Historical Migration of Northern Han to Southern China

message: Cantonese call themselves men of Tang, or Tang people, since they were descended from northern migrants from Central Plain (China) region who fled south during the Tang dynasty, and central plains people back then were called Tang people.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ERnrQq0bsPYC&pg=PA752#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=O72FhsxwzcAC&pg=PA37&dq=cantonese+middle+chinese+mandarin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4aGAUqnLC8flsATRgIGQBA&ved=0CD4Q6wEwAQ#v=onepage&q=cantonese%20middle%20chinese%20mandarin&f=false
Cantonese dialect is close to Chinese language during the Tang dynasty
http://books.google.com/books?id=8OT_Sbk0yekC&pg=PA99&dq=cantonese+middle+chinese+mandarin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4aGAUqnLC8flsATRgIGQBA&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=cantonese%20middle%20chinese%20mandarin&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=Fo087ZxohA4C&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=_-dJxMfdhvEC&pg=PA6&dq=cantonese+middle+chinese+mandarin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4aGAUqnLC8flsATRgIGQBA&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cantonese%20middle%20chinese%20mandarin&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 20:51, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: alternate names

message: Qinling Huaihe Line. --Komitsuki (talk) 03:00, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of these articles should be merged into Geography of China. Vacosea (talk) 18:11, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is a similar article 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. No consensus to move at this time (closed by non-admin page mover) Polyamorph (talk) 11:45, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Northern and southern China →  – Amended from  as per suggestion Or something like it, to make the focus of the article more clear, rather than just inviting copied fragments and statistics from other pages. Remsense聊 17:54, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess. When the categories are opposites or form a dichotomy, I think it's pretty clear. Compare Natural rights and legal rights, Old and New Lights, Northern, Central and Southern Vietnam, and especially Global North and Global South. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 02:46, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the issue perhaps is a bit clearer when there are already distinct North China and South China articles, rather than the two concepts being more clearly joined at the hip, which is arguably the case with Global North and South. Remsense聊 03:09, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 18 October 2023 

message: "A Contribution to the Ethnology of the Chinese" by Lamprey is from 1868 and contains some ideas that we now know to be untrue, such as the habit of closing one's eyes making them smaller and hereditary. Vacosea (talk) 02:09, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  References