Talk:Toronto goth scene

message: : Keep providing reliable sources if you can and I'll format them and try to eliminate any original research. If kept, this should be renamed Goth subculture in Toronto. If deleted, Culture in Toronto can have a shortened summary version. –Pomte 02:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You know what, I have no clue as to the goth scene in this city, so all I can do is go by these sources. (I live in the suburbs so I only see them when I'm downtown for a concert that attracts goths and I'm like, where do they pop up from? I've been to Funhaus but only when they play rock/metal.) –Pomte 02:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

text: This is the point why we call this youth and club scene as "Dark Scene" or "Dark Culture" in Europe. The Goth subculture is only a part of the "dark scene". --~Menorrhea  16:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is nothing called the dark scene in toronto.  Most goths here refer to what you have in gemany as "the german goth scene". They are accustomed to the goth scene being populated by mostly non-goths. Since goths consider goth to be a superior and more beautiful subculture and they consider themselves the centre of attention, they call it the goth scene. And so does the mainstream media.TheDarknessVisible 18:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: goth scene or goth subculture

message: no additional details about social groups can really be included in a wiki article unless they are published by independant media sources. Since groups naturally try to attract members I think wiki editors will object (probably with good cause) to relying on the groups website to actually provide unbiased information.  perhaps the date established and date dissolved is appropriate. or even the current president or person in charge. I'm not sure. I want to leave out toronto goth scene trivia, gossip etc. There are editors who want this article itself deleted entirely.TheDarknessVisible 07:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you sure it is industrial bands should be listed here? This implies that they are under only the goth scene, but not necessarily, right? –Pomte 07:47, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: social groups

message: many facts about goth in the present day are not reported by reliable independant sources.
consequently what was verifiable pre columbine, is no longer verifiable.
I think it is safe to use the language "it is not clear whether XXX is more, less or the same today".. or "it is not clear whether XXX is still true after YYY date".
this reads like original research but I think it should not be called original research when you are in effect insuring that the sources not given undue weight. it is merely restoring neutrality.
I am not sure what the wiki rule is, but I would not want someone to get the wrong idea of present day because they assume some information from 1999 must still be true.
TheDarknessVisible 07:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as it is clear that it is talking about how things were back then, no one should take that to imply this is how things are today. I agree with your sentiment: if there is a lack of reliable sources, then it is unclear. –Pomte 07:48, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: present day uncertainty

message: I don't usually mess with attribution arguments, so I'm not getting into that. I think this article has a lot of good and interesting content, and I don't think it should be deleted.
However, in stylistic terms, it's a mess. There are some misspellings, and punctuation is all over the place - many unnecessary commas, some missing necessary commas, etc. 
I don't have time to edit it right now, and I don't know if I'll remember to come back and edit it when I do have time, but I wanted to note that someone should do it when they can.
4.131.33.246 11:11, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs a general edit for style 

message: For the unregistered smartass from ip 70.53.131.167 who wants to point out that Old City hall is not gothic architecture by using clever witicisms and vulgar language in the actual article itself: the section uses the term "gothic architectural characteristics" for a reason.  You aren't the only person who knows what gothic architecture is.  A grotesque is an architectural characteristic, and it is a gothic one. The section does not claim any of the buildings listed are examples of gothic architecture; it claims they have architectural characteristics which are gothic. TheDarknessVisible 17:33, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are they really relevant to the goth scene though? –Pomte 05:16, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Aren't you a goth? Just take a picture of yourself standing in a graveyard, and go take pictures on club nights. –Pomte 22:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gothic architecture vs gothic architectural characteristics

message: How is the designation "freaks" notable? It's not exclusive to the region during the specified time period.Theplanetsaturn 05:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, this does not seem notable. And the sources linked do not really seem to support the terminolgy used as specific to the region or really, give any reason why Toronto should have it's own article about the subculture.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 22:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

text: While it may not have been used in Europe, "freak" is a generic term used to describe non-conformist sub cultures in many regions. The point is, it's not exclusive to Toronto and does not appear notable to the goth scene in this location. The goth article may be full of gaps. But that doesn't really make this article notable. It just means that the goth subculture article needs work.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 21:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  While freak may be a generic term, there are several details specific to Toronto in this article. Feel free to nominate for deletion. –Pomte 21:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Freaks

message: recently a user using the name mblack added some unverifiable information about morpheus black. If mblack has any links to reliable independant sources of information which may include reference to morpheus being dubbed the "king" or some other title of goth in Toronto, please post a link to it here, and an independent editor can use that to improve this article. I invite mblack to continue to improve the article in other ways.. for example.. the sentence which referred to Toronto Gothic Society was in fact erroneous...  The Vampire Book in fact does refer to The Gothic Society of Canada, and not "Toronto Gothic Society". Information which deals only with morpheuses relationship with the gothic society, or morpheuses relationship to other entities outside of toronto, may not be relevant in this article. In order to insure objectivity, and a neutral POV, I would leave any such edits about morpheus to someone who isn't morpheus or someone close to him. I will point out that the article's failure to include any reference to Morpheus being dubbed father/king/whatever of goth in toronto is most likely due to the fact that none of the sources of information cited in this article state that such a thing is took place. IT is probable that additional sources of information exist out there and I hope editors will bring it forward.  I wrote this comment to explain my undo edits, on some of mblack's good faith edits. TheDarknessVisible (talk) 11:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Morpheus Black

message: it seems to me that we need to start a section for punk bands, this was omitted although a few of the goth bands would be more accurately classified as punk. TheDarknessVisible (talk) 22:15, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  post punk/punk bands 

message: There is a noticeable issue with page referencing in the article. For a page range, the pages field is correct and pp. is produced. To reference a single page only, it is the page field which should be used, and not pages. Varlaam (talk) 17:09, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''pages''' field vs. '''page''' field 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Toronto goth scene. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061125013145/http://www.toronto-goth.com/archives/2001-05-15.shtml to http://www.toronto-goth.com/archives/2001-05-15.shtml
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:57, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified