Talk:Civic nationalism

message: "Liberal nationalism" is more common than "civic nationalism".  Page should be moved. Ostap 01:08, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Liberal nationalism" is an ideology that is used academically. Since there is no evidence that liberal nationalism rejects ethnic identity, "civic nationalism" and "liberal nationalism" are completely separate ideologies. ProKMT (talk) 09:06, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Typologies of nationalism carry with them a lot of problems, as sometimes scholars assume terms are synonymous, sometimes terms are counterposed. I think you were aware of the problems with the Cultural nationalism page for some time because of this very thing. It’s difficult, as we need to follow what scholars use, but there is an inevitable  degree of OR involved in these editorial decisions. To this specific point, though, I’m sure I’ve seen many papers using “civic” and “liberal” interchangeably. But perhaps a lit review is in order if others feel strongly about dividing the two. Yr Enw (talk) 09:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page name 

message: I disagree with the merge proposal, that was given without reason, due to the fact that this article refers to a specific phenomenon within nationalism. The fact one of the books cited on this article is called 'Liberal nationalism' testifies to the existence of the genre. Munci (talk) 22:06, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Munci. There's enough material to support separate articles on the different forms of nationalism - cultural, ethnic, liberal and all the rest.--Pondle (talk) 22:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree, there are many different types of nationalism, Wikipedia doesn't reflect this very well at the moment and needs articles detailing the different types. --Joowwww (talk) 22:38, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Comment I think that Civic nationalism would be a better title for this article - I remember having to write an essay on the differences between 'civic' and 'ethnic' forms of nationalism. Basically, the thesis is that civic nations have ideological (as opposed to ethnic) origins and often celebrate this in their public culture: hence civic national-ism. There are sources out there, these ideas have been discussed by (amongst others) Anthony D. Smith who is well-known within the field.--Pondle (talk) 23:03, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that civic nationalism (which re-directs here) is sometimes called liberal nationalism, so that would be a good reason to re-name the article.  However, glancing through the literature, it seems that civic nationalism is normally contrasted with ethnic nationalism, which is a good reason for combining the two in one article (e.g., under nationalism).  Any thoughts?  TFD (talk) 23:40, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: At the moment there is a summary discussion of both civic and ethnic nationalism at the main article.--Pondle (talk) 14:10, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

text: "Clearly demarcated"?  Could you point out which of your sources does that.  It seems that the term means something different in every source.  TFD (talk) 14:14, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  As-of-yet undiscussed page merge 

message: This is an article about "civic nationalism" - simply meaning to unite all ethnics under one nation. And most of these examples given here are the political wing of separatist/terrorist organizations (IRA, ETA, Flemish, ...), which strictly oppose this concept. Absurd. -- 188.22.174.54 (talk) 22:48, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obvious misconception 

message: I noticed a number of references are the url to a Google Book link. I though editors might be interested in a tool which takes a link as input and creates a (usually) properly formatted ref.
Wikipedia citation tool for Google Books
I used it to improve two such references.
It really helps creates a much cleaner list of references. I hope you will try it.--S Philbrick(Talk) 17:14, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: This entire phrasing, "...identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights..." is both overly generalizing and speculative in its reasoning for why such nations exist or came to exist, and unnecessarily prejudicial. Xenophobe isn't exactly a neutral term. 
I'd also like to point out that just because you can link to a source doesn't make something true. It's not some magical function that suddenly turns an obviously subjective opinion into fact. The best you could say is, "X believes Y," and those kinds of statements are typically never relevant. They're usually just a vehicle for people to inject opinion into an article and nothing more.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.111.96.81 (talk) 02:10, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, with both points. The whole article is very OR-ish, and in danger of POVing from time to time. Pure speculation on my part (so ignore if you wish), but I can't help feeling that some of the motivation behind this article is coming from some supporters of national political parties wishing to add weight to their arguments that they are not the nasty (xenophobic) kind of nationalism, but rather the enlightened, cuddly modern kind. Having a nice Wikipedia article to refer to makes such political maneuvers just that much easier. Im sure that's not the *only* motivation, and I may even be completely wrong in my suspicion. Regardless, a liberal ( or civic :-) ) sprinkling of *robust* supporting references would go a long way to improving the thing. 62.245.143.18 (talk) 00:59, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "a non-xenophobic form of nationalism" 

message: The "contrast with ethnic nationalism" section is full of problematic false dichotomies.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:887:F7C0:5CD2:F0F1:779D:14E1 (talk) 00:31, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  false dichotomies 

message: I resorted to this page to see whether it had any information about these Open Letters being published in Northern and Southern Ireland re " Civ " - ?
https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/02/27/are-the-terms-civic-unionists-and-nationalists-an-oxymoron/
" … Is it an oxymoron to attach the word “civic” to either unionist or nationalist? Is the benign label  “civic” in front of them designed only to conceal partisanship behind a cloak of objectivity?  Hopefully not. They are familiar signifiers rather than labels of allegiance; otherwise “civil society” would be limited to our few assorted socialists, Greens, Alliance party supporters, the professionally and personally unaligned and the genuinely uninterested.  If “civic” still has meaning, it indicates a commitment to think freely beyond an acknowledged background in the interests of “the citizen.” … "
https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/02/27/where-reconciliation-is-a-selective-process-healing-a-pernicious-and-destabilising-past-remains-as-a-challenge-to-us-all/
[ WHICH GIVES THE TEXT OF ONE OF THESE OPEN LETTERS - " CIVIC UNIONIST " ]
“We the undersigned desire a transparent and inclusive debate concerning rights, truth, equality and civil liberties and in so doing challenge assumptions that such values are not embedded within civic unionism, pluralism and other identities.
We are motivated by the desire to build a society for the betterment of everyone. This cannot happen when such a commitment is perceived as being vested in one community or political persuasion. We find it frustrating and puzzling that civic unionism, pluralists and other forms of civic leadership have been rendered invisible in many debates focused on rights and responsibilities. It has reduced our capacity to be heard and undermines the power of reconciliation to shift society away from stale and limiting notions of identity.
We have worked for peace and reconciliation and in so doing have had open and transparent engagement with civic nationalism. That has included recognition of the need for equality and most importantly the urgent need for polarised communities in Northern Ireland to reconcile and deal with barriers to a better future.
To achieve this requires the recognition that withholding truth presents as such. This is not unique to any institution or section within our society but where it is a selective process, healing a pernicious and destabilising past remains as a challenge to us all.
Civic unionism, and other identities are not resistant to claims of equality and full citizenship. These identities are central to the development of an authentically fair and tolerant society.
We wish to unite, not divide, and in encouraging transparency we call upon civic nationalism and others to engage with us in frank and fulsome debates about the many values and beliefs that are commonly shared and are vital to transforming the issues that we face."
WHICH WAS FROM = https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/civic-unionism-group-issues-riposte-to-civic-nationalism-1.3406055
… 03.00 am - I place this note here for you because I am going to put this on the back burner because of my lack of time and texts.DaiSaw (talk) 02:06, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Civic Nationalist V Civic Unionist - " and others' arguments " - being conducted about " Civ " in Northern Ireland UK - ( circa 2018-19 ? ) 

message: — Assignment last updated by Bane117 (talk) 03:46, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Zionism and the Roads Not Taken 1880-1948