Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 1

message: Good to see an NBA project up, and hopefully soon running well. I'd definitely make the priority getting boxes like the Spurs one on every page. Also, I really don't like the mentions of rivalries on pages. This is pretty POV. From a neutral NBA fan's perspective (no team, just love the game), I'd say the only real rivalry in NBA history was Lakers-Celtics in the 1980s. These change quickly (currently the only one is everyone v. Duncan, and maybe Shaq v. Kobe). These should all be cut from the articles. Also, try to get a little template to lead people to the project from NBA-related talk pages. Nice start though. Harro5 July 8, 2005 02:23 (UTC)
:We might disagree about the rivalries, but I fully agree with you on the need to standardize the NBA team articles.  I hereby add my name to the WikiProject for the National Basketball Associaton :). King July 8, 2005 03:20 (UTC)
It says in the Playoffs section of the NBA page "Although the playoff brackets are not reseeded, home-court advantage is based strictly on regular-season record, without regard to whether a team won its division."  This surely is no longer the case as the winner of a division is now guaranteed a playoff spot. --NBA-Forum.net 20:54, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Initial thoughts 

message: Comment: don't mess with timestamps. Format is "%H:%i, %d %M %Y". Correcting July 8, 2005 07:18 (UTC); 03:48, July 10, 2005 (UTC); 09:18, August 31, 2005 (UTC)  Pldx1 (talk) 11:18, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Championship articles 

message: One thing that I did with the Portland Trail Blazers page is to move the team history information (I contributed quite a bit of stuff) into it's own page--mainly because I got the "32k limit" warning.  There's a lot of history 'bout the Trail Blazers.  On the main page I try to use mainly the present tense.
Comments on this editorial approach?
Also, there are a lot of NBA personalities who are still red links...
[User:EngineerScotty 7/8/05 10:43 PDT]
I like that approach, although I still can't believe you chronicled the history of the Blazers in two pages while teams like the Lakers and the Kings don't have a thing yet!!!  My hats off to you. Dknights411 04:29, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
Just a note.  According to the NBA's official web site for the Philadelphia 76ers, their predicessors, the Syracuse Nationals were founded in 1939, and were a charter member of the National Basketball league in 1946. NoseNuggets 1:13 US EST Nov 2 2005.
I just finished looking at the New York Knickerbockers page, and the near end of the article is filled with various updates, but some of them are speculations, such as the future of Knicks coach Larry Brown.  I think we should discourage people from writing speculation in the history sections and only add actual occurrances.  (e.g. Do not add or cite sources that suggest that Larry Brown could resign, accept a buyout, get fired, etc.  Do enter information once it occurs; if Larry Brown does leave the Knicks for some reason, add it only once it occurs.)
DaDoc540 04:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History vs Current Information 

message: Hi, I went looking for the above in Wikipedia a while ago and couldn't find it anywhere, but I just found a offhand reference to it in the Chicago Bulls article, which doesn't really make it any clearer (although I assume it was a series winning shot after the buzzer). From outside the US where I am, it's not widely known about, but is of interest- I thought it referred to a baseball game and yet I'm a basketball fan! Could someone who knows more either make a page for it, or a clear explaination within an existing appropriate page? Coyote-37 10:51, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Dknights411, that's cleared things up for me, very helpful! Though Wikipedia itself still doesn't make it all that clear, unless people stumble on this talk page! Maybe 'Shot Heard Round the World' should be a redirect page to the 1951 World Series, or Bobby Thompson's page? Coyote-37 09:42, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shot Heard Around the World 

message: Here's an idea.  I was thinking that we create seperate articles that chronicles the history of the NBA season by season, like a 1990-91 NBA Season article, a 1991-92 NBA Season article, and so on.  Any thoughts?
Incredibly ambitious, incredibly comprehensive and incredibly hard to do... I like it! King 06:56, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
Ok, I did a quick summary of this past season, and this coming season hopefully as template for all the other seasons.  Last Year and This Year.  As of right now, all seasons from 1997–98 to now are up.  If you have additional information, suggestions, partaning to these seasons, please feel free to contribute. Dknights411 03:32, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NBA Seasons list 

message: A while back I tried to do some stuff on some of the NBDL pages, but I typically don't have enough time. I know the league isn't of great interest to many people, but it could become a larger part of the sports world, especially if it is expanded into a full and true minor league system like Stern wants. Any chance this could be incorporated into this WikiProject? Most of the pages could use some major work.
EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 04:03, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NBDL 

message: WikiFanatic started Wikipedia:WikiProject Basketball just recently and some users of this project suggested that it should be merged with this one. Though I recognize the importance of the NBA to basketball all over the world, I don't feel that such requests are really reasonable. Basketball is a popular sport all over the world and starting a general, truly international project sounds like a very good idea to me. I urge all of the participants of this project to try encourage WikiFanatics initiative instead of asking him to conform to the rather more limited scope of this project. This doesn't mean that more specific projects don't have a place on Wikipedia, but they should definetly not try to assimilate those that aim to have a broader scope.
Peter Isotalo 19:42, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikProject Basketball 

message: I don't know if this is the best place where to post, but I've noticed that on players' personal pages you always refer to past European teams with the nations (eg: a player who came from Virtus Bologna -> came from Italy) and not with the club names. Basketball players like Olowokandi or Doc Rivers haven't mentions about their experiences with italian teams and this is for the most part of the players (Russians, Serbians, generally all players with European experiences). I think it would be better to fix this, respecting European fans (I would remember you that even more teams are signing European leagues players) and to the information that will be more complete (="there isn't only the NBA!"). Unfortunately I'm not so expert to fix all the players.
Sorry for my English, I'm Italian.
(it was me -> --necronudist 16:56, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Players' careers 

message: Buying an Italian magazine I've found an year-by-year list of 5 players who's intended to be the "best players' roster of the year" in every NBA season (from 1946–47 to 2004-05). There are also "all rookies teams" from 1962–63 to 2004-05). I haven't seen anything about that in NBA articles, so my question is: are this some sort of official rosters or are they only the suppositions of the magazine? (there isn't written if are official rosters or magazine's). If they're official I can wiki them. (or, if the "NBA seasons year-by-year" project will begin they could be part of it). Let me know! --necronudist 15:45, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course you can start these pages! gurulegend 05:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  All NBA Teams 

message: I've added the player career and trade report to Alaa Abdelnaby (d'you like them? found'em useful?) and I'm planning to do it for many other players. I was wondering if there are some templates who can make easier and standardized my work. More generally: can someone create a template to apply to all NBA (maybe also one for non-NBA) players? --necronudist 21:46, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Players' templates request 

message: Although it isn't strictly an NBA matter, I'd really like to do some serious work on the ABA team pages. I've already cleaned up a couple of the articles, but I'd like to develop a template along the same lines as for the NBA teams; what do you think? The main problem is the number of relocations; I like the approach of the Pittsburgh Pipers article which covers the entire life of the franchise, including years they weren't called the Pipers and even when they didn't even play in Pittsburgh. If I could use the NBA team template, with the different colours and stuff, to illustrate the different periods in the team's evolution it might make articles like that a lot less confusing. Fosse8 13:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  ABA 

message: I noticed that players with common names are disambiguated differently.  To avoid red links and duplicate articles, I'd like to see this standardized.  Examples of the various conventions in use include:
*Larry Johnson (basketball) – this seems to be most common.
*Sam Mitchell (basketball coach), though I assume he will be remembered best as a player for the T'Wolves.
*David Robinson (basketball player) – good, but what if he becomes a coach?
*Frank Williams (NBA player) – ditto.
*James Edwards (NBA) – brevity is good, but might be bad to use for those who previously played professional basketball outside the NBA, such as...
*Andrei Kirilenko (athlete), which seems silly when there is no mention of Kirilenko playing other sports.
*Randy Smith (basketballer) – semantically more accurate than "(basketball)" because it clearly describes a person, but I have not seen this term in widespread use anywhere.  Is a coach also considered a "basketballer"... I don't know.
and even...
*Cliff Robinson (basketball player born 1966) – use his middle name, maybe?  Or maybe move him to Clifford Robinson (basketball) because I assume he is more notable than the currently red-linked Cliff Robinson (basketball player born 1960)?  Or maybe one was primarily known as "Cliff" and the other as "Clifford"?  I dunno.
Of course the most notorious basketball-related naming confusion involves these three:
*Jayson Williams who killed his chauffeur.
*Jason Williams ("White Chocolate") – I moved him from "Jason Chandler Williams" to Jason Williams (basketball) because I've never heard him called by all three names and the latter space was unoccupied.  This was only possible because...
*The other Jason Williams agreed to be called "Jay Williams", but Jay is at Jay Williams (basketball) to avoid confusion with other people named Jay Williams.
Anybody else care to weigh in on this?
:— FREAK OF NURxTURE (TALK) 15:53, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Finally someone who take care of this stuff! I thought I was the only so mad. I think it would be better to redirect all the (basketball player), (NBA), (basketballer) etc to a more "neutral" (basketball) to avoid disambiguations between coaches, staff, players, and so long. Agree with Clifford Robinson, there's already a summary page of Cliff Robinsons...so it's a perfect solution I think. Great work with Jason Williams. If you wanna improve/change some other mistakes or stuff like this I'm here to help.  Waiting for other comments. --necronudist 17:22, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, thanks for the input.  If nobody else responds within a few days, I'll start changing them all to "...(basketball)" because quite a few players do pursue other basketball-related jobs after retiring as players.  I'll try to do research on "the other Cliff[ord] Robinson" in the meantime.  I actually had never heard of until today.  — FREAK OF NURxTURE (TALK) 17:50, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I always had the notion that "... (basketball)" was standard.  I agree with that naming convention.  The Cliff Robinson case is a difficult one- I've seen fan mail wondering how Cliff Robinson had a great year in 1980 when he was only 14.  I propose using the [www.basketball-reference.com] convention of naming the younger one "Clifford Robinson" and the older one "Cliff Robinson" ().  The alternative would be to distinguish between Clifford Trent Robinson (1960) and Clifford Ralph Robinson (1966).  King 04:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree that (basketball) is the best option. Like you said, (basketballer) may be preferrable if it were in common usage, but that also seems to imply that they are a player in my mind. (basketball) should be pretty comprehensive for players, coaches, etc. Thanks for trying to standardize it! EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 07:42, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok.  here I go. — FREAK OF NURxTURE (TALK) 07:01, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I've made some progress (see Freakofnurture/disNBAguation) but my connection keeps timing out. Others wishing to help can check the links to the right of each line and update the pages to bypass redirects. — FREAK OF NURxTURE (TALK) 10:04, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  disambiguation of common names 

message: Jorje29 has added hoopsstats.com fantasy statistics links to all or almost all of the player and team articles. Is this desireable? I would argue that one stats link is enough for an article, but I'm not a fantasy player. What are other opinions? --DDerby-(talk) 08:05, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say get rid of them, even though they do have a lot of useful statistics. Gflores Talk 02:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links to current statistics 

message: Im just wondering if there is any criteria before deleting/adding external links to fan sites. After visiting a couple of teams I noticed that most fan sites seem to be self promotion with little or no new content being updated and no user-base or any vital information. Is it fine to just leave them on or better to delete them?
*I would delete them.  If the site is not being updated, then what's the point?Dknights411 04:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links- Fansites/Self Promotion 

message: In case you haven't noticed, there is a new, more streamlined infobox available that was first posted on the Seattle SuperSonics page.  To whoever set this up, JOB WELL DONE!!!  We should use this template on all the team pages. Dknights411 06:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Team Infobox 

message: I just noticed User:Alakazam adding www.sportsecyclopedia.com links to each basketball team article.  He/she isn't a new user nor has past behavior of spamming, (also the site has a decent Alexa rating – 141,000).  But, I don't like the mass adding of links, as it has the appearance of spam.  What's your thought on adding this link the the articles?  Worth including? or not?
I also think many of the other links in the team articles look no more informative and useful than sportsencyclopedia, and might be worth trimming.  See External links guidelines and WikiProject Spam for more information on the guidelines and ongoing efforts. Thanks. --Aude (talk | contribs) 20:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I say revert this. Google gives zero "link: -site:" results. Yahoo gives zero "link:" and "domainlink:" results. According to Alexa the top referrer is Wikipedia itself.  AFAICT it gains more being here than Wikipedia. --Perfecto  20:35, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: I would encourage members of this wikiproject to check out the following AfD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of NBA Drafts. Maybe the list deserves to go, maybe it doesn't. But as of now, i dont think any members of this project have voted thus far. Whether you agree with my comments on the AfD or not, wikipedia as a whole would benefit from your opinion. Cheers. Youngamerican 21:17, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AfD of interest to NBA fans/wikipedians 

message: Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? Please post your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Gflores Talk 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project 

message: I took a moment to add History of the Dallas Mavericks to the WikiProject, if any of you would like to take a look at.  It was an article that I contributed significantly to through the mid-'90s (though I did so back when the history page was still part of the main Mavericks article), and I'm very pleased with how it's progressed.
Not to pat myself on the back or anything.  ;)  ekedolphin 21:26, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added Dallas Mavericks History Page to WikiProject 

message: Kudos to whoever started the coach succession boxes.  I've added numerous ones, and at least three teams are complete (Portland, Seattle, and Orlando). In many cases, I also created articles on NBA coaches who didn't have one (and was surprised to find that several NBA notables, including Frank Layden and Stu Jackson, didn't have articles at all!).  In some cases, articles were created for guys like Bill Berry (basketball) (who coached the Bulls for two games) who are otherwise not very notable--but I think if you are a head NBA coach for even a single game, that confers notability.
A few comments/questions:
* I've labelled coaches who are interim coaches (and who are not hired full-time) with the (interim) tag in the info-boxes, i.e. Kevin Pritchard.  Coaches who are initially interim coaches, but who get the job on a full-time basis, are not labelled as interim, i.e. Rick Adelman.
* Should we demarcate player-coaches?
--EngineerScotty 22:44, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coach succession boxes 

message: ; Proposal : At the beginning of an article related to the National Basketball Association, spell out National Basketball Association instead of using NBA. (For the remainder of the article, feel free to use the acronym).
;Reasoning
:*Not all groups, such as English speakers outside of North America, may know what NBA stands for.
:*NBA stands for other things, despite the basketball organization being the primary usage.
:*Unlike NBA, National Basketball Association is self-descriptive, that is, one can see it is a basketball-related organization just by reading its name.
--jiy (talk) 21:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think your proposal is a wonderful idea!  ekedolphin 09:12, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

text: This is really a standard for all papers and such, so I agree wholeheartedly. Retropunk 08:21, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guideline proposal for NBA articles 

message: I was looking through the NBA and did not find the All-NBA first team and All-NBA second team articles. I think it would be a good idea to create them. Also lists for each year and records (who has been most times, etc) would be useful Joelito 23:52, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds like a good plan.  There is some All-NBA team info on the individual seasons pages, so that could be used as a starter.  I'm all for this idea.  What does everyone else think? Dknights411 00:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

text: See above --necronudist 16:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  All-NBA First and Second Team 

message: I've been going through the old NBA Draft pages, many of which are either complete but not uniform to the newer pages, woefully incomplete, or missing altogether.  Does anyone else think that it is a worthwhile endeavor to complete the entire Draft database and give it a uniform template? --fuzzy510 20:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be worthwile, but draft data, especially from the early years, might be hard to come by.  However, I think that it is something we should look into.  What does everybody else think?Dknights411 23:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are actually more than a couple of good sources out there to get the full draft information.  Basketball-reference.com and NBADraft.net both have fairly extensive draft histories, which can be used to fill out the information.  Some of the specific information for individual players might be hard to come by, but it probably won't be too hard to at least find enough to make stubs. --fuzzy510 23:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NBA Draft 

message: I was surprised to see that there was no infobox for basketball players.  I was also pretty WTF at the current "infoboxes" on some players – unwieldly and difficult to edit and mantain.  Could someone create an infobox?  I'm too casual – I wouldn't know what information to include. Hbdragon88 23:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Template:Infobox Pro athlete is available, e.g. see Ray Allen. —jiy (talk) 23:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Tim Duncan has the same thing too. This should be the template to get the job done. Dknights411 23:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've created Template:Infobox NBA Player. I think it looks a bit nicer than the other one. gurulegend 21:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basketball player infobox 

message: ... on this AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amin Wright - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 13:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Come opine... 

message: Hi.  As you may have noticed, I kinda shot off on my own and started doing team season-by-season records all the way back to the start of the franchise.  It's been bugging me that I had to search online in different places to find this info, so I'm putting it all here, where it belongs.   I'm delineating NBA vs. non-NBA stats for totalling.  I'm about halfway done with the teams by now.  ---Kermitmorningstar 06:40, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Season-by-season 

message: Boston Celtics vs. Philadelphia 76ers: The Sixers were one of the only two teams to prevent the Celtics to win ten consecutive championships and challenged them for the Eastern Conference championship numerous times.  When Dr. J arrived in Philadelphia (after the ABA-NBA merger), the Sixers dueled the Celtics again, reaching the finals in 1982 and winning it all in 1983 (with Moses Malone's "fo', fo', fo'" becoming a "fo', fi', fo'").
Philadelpha 76ers vs. Los Angeles Lakers:
The Sixers and the Lakers clashed in the Finals three times in the 1980s (1980, 1982, and 1983), with the Lakers winning the first two meetings and the Sixers sweeping in 1983.  The rivalry was revisited in 2001 when the Allen Iverson-led 76ers stunned the Lakers in the first game at Los Angeles before the Lakers took the next four.
New York Knickerbockers vs. Minneapolis Lakers & Los Angeles Lakers:
There existed a rivalry between the New York Knickerbockers and the Lakers (during both the Minneapolis and the Los Angeles eras).  The Minneapolis Lakers and the New York Knicks met in the 1952 and 1953 Finals with the Lakers winning both confrontations.
By the time the Lakers moved to the Great Western Forum in Inglewood, California, the Knicks-Lakers rivalry took on different meanings: East vs. West, Broadway vs. Hollywood.  In 1970, 1972, and 1973, the New York Knicks and Los Angeles Lakers met in the Finals.  The Knicks won in 1970 (which featured Willis Reed's inspirational joining with his Knick teammates despite injury) and 1973, while the Lakers won in 1972 (the same year they posted a then-record in regular season wins-losses: 69-13).
Dallas Mavericks vs. San Antonio Spurs:
These two Texas teams, Dallas always with Dirk Nowitzki, San Antonio always with Tim Duncan, have clashed in the postseason in 2001, 2003, and 2006.  Recent key events include longtime Maverick Michael Finley joining the Spurs after being waived by the amnesty clause, the "biting incident" involving Robert Horry and Jerry Stackhouse, and the low punch by Jason Terry on Finley.  Now that the Mavericks have defeated the Spurs in a postseason series (at San Antonio as well), this is certainly a rivalry.
Someone else mentioned about the Heat and the Pistons having a rivalry.  Both teams have met in the postseason twice, splitting those series.  The same can be said about the Dallas Mavericks and the Phoenix Suns, especially due to the fact that Steve Nash left the Mavericks to rejoin the Suns.  In my opinion, if those teams of a pair meet again in the postseason or if something significant happens when they meet in the regular season (not necessarily with the magnitude of that of the Palace Brawl, but significant enough to have an impact), then we've got a rivalry.
If anybody is willing to spend some time researching, adding, and elaborating these rivalries on Rivalries of the NBA, feel free to do so.
DaDoc540 00:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A couple of good points here, however, I have a few reservations about this concept of "rivalry", especially in the NBA.  Take my San Antonio Spurs for example.  It seems like the Spurs chief rival at a given point changes after every few seasons.  It used to be Hakeem and the Rockets, then Malone and the Jazz, then the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, then the Pistons, now the Mavs (although I still don't consider them to bo our main rivals, they'll always be that ringless team up I-35 to me ;-) ).  In the case of some of these teams, particularly the Jazz for example, they fall out of contention to the point that they are no longer legitimate rivals anymore, and they just become another team.  I mean, are the Bulls and the Jazz still rivals since they met each other in back to back NBA Finals?  And if so, what about the Sonics and the Wizards (former Bullets)?  Not to discount the impact of the Lakers and the Celtics, but how significant is this rivalry today now that both franchises are mired in sub-mediocrity?  The history of the NBA changes so fast that it's hard to establish long-lasting rivalries in my opinion.  I mean, something will pop up that will be a storyline for a few years, but what about 10, 15 years down the road?  I like the idea of recognizing these rivalries as part of NBA history, but I'm just not entirely sure what a 'rivalry' has to acheive to be listed on here.  That's just my two cents though. Dknights411 01:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major Rivalries to add 

message: Hey, I'm from WikiProject NBL. Just letting you know that I created at template called . Please feel free to rename this as NBA, and then do whatever you want with it. See the Brett Maher article for an example. Cheers, Jasrocks (talk)  11:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  template 

message: I looked at the history pages of the teams that said they should be updated but they look fine to me. Some of them have a lot more than others though. BryanAtkinson 07:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Team history 

message: Someone's been adjusting the Kings and Pacers rosters to reflect a Jeff Foster/Sarunas Jasikevicius for Bonzi Wells trade.  I haven't found any evidence to support the position that such a trade has been made, and indeed any articles I can find about Wells going to Indy have been of the position that it's not very likely, and that a trade for Al Harrington is much more likely.  ekedolphin 05:26, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foster, Jasikevicius, Wells 

message: In case anyone was interested... Zagalejo 18:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: the main problem is that "notable" concept is ambigous (and totally ridicolous) like many other things here. and, however, you hit the point. --necronudist 19:23, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree; different people have different thresholds for notable.  Most general-purpose print encyclopedias won't have articles for any basketballers except for HOF-worthy players, whereas we are not paper and thus can have articles about any NBAer, plus many others.  However, we're not the white pages either (nor are we a basketball almanac--most basketball almanacs are primary sources which do original research), and so some threshold is useful to keep out ju-co benchwarmers, second string prep players, playground players who are legends in their own mind (or even in a particular neighborhood), etc.  WP:V and WP:NOR help greatly--if we can't look up the player somewhere reputable, they don't get in--but  were they the only critera, that would potentially mean that tens of thousands of NCAA players nobody has heard of (but whose exploits are documented by their uni's sports information department) would be eligible.  Maybe that's OK; perhaps Wikipedia should expand and document all college players.  But that would be a major shift in policy.  --EngineerScotty 21:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Kris Clack]] up for deletion