Talk:International Solidarity Movement

message: I removed an unreferenced section under strategy
This looked like some kind of personal attack on an ISMer using a person's full name and without any references.
:Yep.--Joeboy 14:15, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  unreferenced section 

message: Jayjg: It is an objective fact that these have taken place. What else do you call lies (later conceded as such by the government) propagated by a government with the clear intent of discrediting a political group that acts against its interests? I'm talking about the Tom Hurndall case, but there is a vast amount of similar lying about the ISM in many other cases. Hence "propaganda". AW
:Ah, there's your comment.  It's better to comment first, then edit, so people can see what you are talking about.  "Propagandistic attacks" is a POV term; there might be better ones.  Can you give specific examples of what you are talking about? Jayjg (talk) 19:50, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Propagandistic attacks" 

message: >> ISM media co-ordinator Kristin (Flo) Razowsky has been quoted as saying "Israel" is an illegal entity that should not exist. This quotation originated from the open comments section of the indymedia website, and were made by someone using the name "Flo Rosovski".[17] A later post by someone using the name "the real flo razowsky" stated the original posting was posted on a date when Flo was "actually in detention and had no access to email." Note, the real spelling of Flo's name is "Razowsky".
Does this actually add anything? It's pretty much on the level of pure speculation over what some anonymous person may or may not have said - should it be here at all?
:It's a good way of debunking false claims that have been consistently made about ISM and Razowsky. Please remember to sign your posts. Jayjg (talk) 02:03, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If it was widely reported that George Bush had said that Israel doesn't have the right to exist then I imagine the veracity or otherwise of the quote would be considered suitable subject matter for Wikipedia
I was just coming here to say the same thing - it sounds like an utterly trivial event, with absolutely nothing behind it. It's just one anonymous online forum posting with no reliable sources about its veracity or false-ness, either way.  I'd say it should go. Unless the the ISM itself uses it as some sort of example of false claims, or if the ISM's opponents use it as an example of a ISM person exposing her "real beliefs" or whatever.  If the only place it's used for either purpose is here on Wikipedia, we're treading close to original research territory. CDC (talk) 16:42, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Check google - This invented quote is a widely cited smear against the ISM, and I think it's useful to document its provenance. --Joeboy 19:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Alleged quotes" 

message: The links to ISM press releases (hosted at phpwebhosting.com) all seem to be dead links.  ISM themselves don't seem to have them either.  At least not in an accessible way.  Anyone know of an archive?--SVTCobra 01:55, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: ISM's website has been redone recently. All their press releases are archived here.TroiS6 07:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ISM releases - links 

message: It's highly prejudicial - both against rachel and against ism - to have the only photo on the page be of a flag.  No reasonable argument can be made for having that photo be the main reference photo for Rachel Corrie.
Apparently, someone didn't see this massage on the talk page, and didn't understand why using such a photo as a reference would be prejudicial.  (I assumed this would be pretty obvious)  But when a reference photo to a person is used, it's not customary or NPOV to use a controversial or provacative photo.  For example, List of billionaires (2005), which mentions Bill Gates, links to Image:Bill Gates1.jpg and not to Image:Bill gates-mugshot.jpg.  Likewise, the Democratic Party (United States) article uses Bill Clinton.jpg to reference Bill Clinton, and not a more controversial one like Image:Monita.jpg.  The article about the individual can address the more controversial and provocative stuff, but it's prejudicial to include such an image as the primary reference photo.
: Fair enough. Babajobu 06:34, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree, if nobody else comments within a week, I'll change the image. Mgaines 15:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

text: There's a difference between those cases and the Rachel Corrie photo however. Gates and Clinton are primarily famous for their actions aside from being arrested and aside from the Lewinsky scandal. Corrie's notability and relevance to ISM is entirely in connection to her activism, and as such, the photo used should aknowledge that. Just as if Gates were noted primarily for his life of crime, we would probably use a more criminally associated photo for him, Corrie's photo should be related to her activism, and specifically, to the incident which led to her fame. Subsequently, I don't think it needs to be the flag photo, but it should be either that one of the pics from the incident which resulted in her death would be appropriate here. Bibigon 15:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with both of you, that the flag burning photo is prejudicial, and that whatever photo is used should represent the activities being described in the article.  As such, I've changed the photo from the flag burning to something that Rachel was doing much more often, standing in front of a bulldozer.  There are other possible photos as well, so we can keep this discussion going if anyone objects to the change. Mgaines 15:10, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos 

message: I just tried to do a copy edit, but the article's so POV, it's pointless trying to edit it. The first few sections have no sources, so it's not clear which parts are quotes from ISM websites, and which have been paraphrased by Wikipedia editors. It needs to be rewritten with every single point being carefully sourced to reputable sources. There also needs to be some criticism in the intro, because this is a highly controversial organization, and our intro gives no hint of that. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "The group has attracted a great deal of criticism and controversy" would seem to me to give a pretty heavy hint of that. I don't see what else is required.--Joeboy 21:05, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is simply propaganda. ISM is an extremist organization and has been successfully infiltrated, photographs taken, articls written, etc. Some of the information is quite damning, but none of it is here. I particularly like the defense of suicide bombings. The Palestinian motivation can be seen in the charters of Hamas and the PLO, and Palestinian violence did not begin with the "occupation" but goes back centuries. Where was the "occupation" in 1929 at Hebron? This article and many others like it should be taken out of partisan hands and given to neutrals. Scott Adler 10:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Scott Adler- back up your claims. If what you say is true, if damning evidence is available, bring it here. And it's hilarious to hear you accuse the article of being propaganda and in the same breath let loose a tirade of propaganda yourself. Frankly I think you've listened to Lee Kaplan a little too much and are decieved. Too many people out there make ISM to be much bigger than it is; it is just a few people in the west bank dealing with the daily life of villagers. Source your accusations to valid news sources. Or better yet, bring your 'damning evidence' to the Israeli government, or the US government. You know why ISM is allowed to exist? Why the army doesn't deport all of them and shut down their offices? It would not be difficult. They don't do it because your 'damning evidence' does not exist, it cannot exist.213.6.3.25 22:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: I created a page for Brian Avery - his case is potentially quite significant, as the Israeli Supreme Court ordered the military to reexamine it. Perhaps someone would like to add a section (more than the brief blurb that is stated in 'significant events') about this on this page?
TroiS6 12:47, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Brian Avery

message: We've got a couple citations in this article to sources which first aren't really verifiable, in that, they're someone's Comcast webpage, claiming to be reproducing text from the Jordan Star. Second, it's unclear to me that the Jordan Star is a notable or reliable source, and thus I'm not sure whether their editorializing about Shapiro is sufficiently important to be in the article. 
I'm really not wild about linking to a comcast user's webpage though. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm leaning towards removing them, but I wanted to give others a chance to make a case for keeping them. Bibigon 04:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: home.comcast.net sources

message: I removed dead links to two ISM press releases regarding the Mike's Place Bombing; I couldn't find them on the ISM website either, probably since they were issued about 5 years ago, but it would be nice if someone could find them. AshcroftIleum (talk) 23:13, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Mike's Place Bombing Press Releases

message: I deleted a quote in the section on ISM stands on nonviolence because it lacked a citation. I would have added a  if it wasn't a quote by a living person. If you have the source, add it back in. LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 18:54, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted uncited quote

message: Recently noticed this, thought it might be interesting:  http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=28361
Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 18:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  IDF tactics around non-Palestinians 

message: You're using anonymous Indymedia postings as sources. You're quoting a living person advocating violence against noncombatants without any source. You're hacking apart the alleged words of a group founder and then reinterpreting them as advocating the necessity of terrorism. You're advancing a "Pallywood" style conspiracy theory clearly based on amateur photo-analysis from some blog, although I can't be sure since there's again no citation and it's even tagged .
Is there any worthless propaganda claim about ISM that you're not including in this article? I suggest you guys add how they pour bacon grease into the aquifers of Tel Aviv in between beating their wives and smuggling cigarettes into the European Union. 64.231.63.229 (talk) 03:39, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Controversy" 

message: Removed this link http://stoptheism.com/
As it is quite clearly a series of death threats and smears.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.110.3.4 (talk) 19:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed illegal link 

message: George Rishmawi asks, "when did occupation begin?" It began after the violent terrorism that preceded in the 1940's and 1950's.  The one subject Palestinian Arabs don't want to discuss is the fact that occupation is a direct result of Arab terrorism in the 1950s.
The only illegal occupation before 1967 was by Jordanian Arabs who ethnically cleansed Jews of Jerusalem.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.106.161 (talk) 07:02, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrorism preceded occupation 

message: I did a bunch of clean up, updating, referencing, etc.  Needs more info on ISM notable activities including running blockades of Gaza. Will put it on my list. CarolMooreDC (talk) 03:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Article cleanup

message: What is the relevance of statements that any organization has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?
 
Such nominations do not mean that the organization has "Peace" as its sole motive.
 
In the first place, such Nominations are confidental -- for 50 years after they are made -- and furthermore, just about anyone can make such a nomination.
  
Ok, not just anyone but I would guess that well over a million people in the world are Qualified Nominators.
 
What was the motive for making such nominations or for making public the fact that they were made?--Komowkwa (talk) 05:35, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: AFSC, together with Friends Service Council is a laureate of the Nobel Peace Prize, and so is eminently qualified to nominate. --NSH001 (talk) 08:04, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

text: I don't understand what your argument is here. You refer to the "effort to bolster the credibility of any organization", but what evidence do you have that anyone is trying to bolster the credibility of ISM by including this? Please remember to assume good faith and refrain from impugning the motives of other editors. It seems to me that you are arguing that these nominations should not be included in the article, but they are certainly relevant to the organization and both are well-sourced, so on what grounds would you make that argument? -- Irn (talk) 17:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the criticism of my comments and have taken the liberty of changing them.  Nonetheless, I don't see how the "fact" that any organization has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, even if that could be properly sourced, has any relevance in this context.--Komowkwa (talk) 05:35, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is it not relevant? Certainly news organizations believe it to be relevant and so do pro-Israel groups that scoff at the nomination, not to mention that nominators themselves who obviously made the nomination public in order to draw attention to it. Again I put the question to you: on what grounds is this not relevant? -- Irn (talk) 17:40, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Peace Prize

message: Is listing an injury as a casualty really correct?  Seems misleading to me. . . . Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 04:09, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is: casualty (person). -- Irn (talk) 17:24, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questionable Wording: "Casualties" 

message: Should mention that the ISM significantly antagonized a number of journalists when they released photos of Rachel Corrie which they claimed were taken right before she died, but which turned out to be taken hours before she died; that actually had something to do with why Rachel Corrie never became a major cause celèbre in the U.S.  Also, the ISM apparently staged an amazing childish temper tantrum at the end of the Bethlehem church occupation in 2002, trying to make the issue be about them personally, and threatening to hold their breaths until they turned blue in the face unless somebody did something or other which nobody cared about except they themselves. AnonMoos (talk) 06:54, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: ISM flubs, own goals, and bloopers

message: Nobel Price nominations are not verifiable as nominations are kept under seal for 50 years by the Noble Price foundation. As such, it is against WP's content policy to include purported nominations in an article. -  Cwobeel (talk) 14:21, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: A nomination is made by someone and received by the Nobel foundation.  There is no reason why the nominator can't tell everyone about it and that is what happened here.  Your argument does not hold water. Zerotalk 23:07, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nobel price nominations are kept secret for 50 years 

message: The long paragraph about Kayla Mueller says clearly she was abducted and killed by ISIS in Syria. Why is this appears under "ISM member casualties in Palestine and Israel"? What is the connection exactly between her death and Israel/Palestinian territories? Elvenking (talk) 16:56, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Kayla Mueller, why is she mentioned here?

message: There is a photo captioned, "19-year-old Swedish ISM volunteer wounded by Israeli settlers in Hebron in November 2006" within a section ISM member casualties in Palestine and Israel / ISM member casualties timeline.  The incident is not a casualty, is justifiably not listed in the timeline of casualties, and it would be better in a section on injuries sustained by ISM members, or removed entirely.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.33.126.2 (talk) 02:18, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would this injury not constitute a casualty? The list seems to be only the most severe casualties. Perhaps if someone could find more information on the particular incident, it could be included in the list? -- Irn (talk) 02:55, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo where it doesn't belong 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on International Solidarity Movement. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I’m thinking of adding an infobox to this article, with info such as a link to website, year of founding etc. Any disagreement? Gareth fr (talk) 18:14, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add infobox? 

message: Hi! I was using citation hunter and came across this page. I found a reference before realizing that the page is protected. If someone could review and add a reference for this article that would be great: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/03/israel2
I'm a newbie and would really appreciate feedback, especially if there are any errors in what I'm doing here. Thank you!
* What I think should be changed: Add citation to statement "On 2 April 2002, Australian ISM volunteer Kate Edwards sustained severe internal injuries from rounds fired by Israeli forces during a protest in Beit Jala."
* Why it should be changed: Tagged as citation needed.
* References supporting the possible change: 
TheIrisNebula (talk) 02:54, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation to add