Talk:Marilyn Monroe/Archive 1

message: The Playboy article says that she was the first centerfold. What is correct? - User:Olivier
first cover gril second ceterfold
----
No, in the first issue she was on the cover and in the "centerfold", such as it was. Wahkeenah 12:22, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Playboy data

message: The biography section has almost nothing about her career, which is why she is a celebrity in the first place.  And I moved this stuff below from the main page, as it belongs here anyways:
:mention some husbands, such as Joe DiMaggio and Arthur Miller; personal style, manner of death, Andy Warhol and her affairs with many men.
The husbands has just been added, but more needs to be said. —Frecklefoot 15:37, 2 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Career and Spouses

message: I removed the below paragraph from the article:
:Marilyn Monroe's face appears on several posters in the second level of the video game Shinobi.
In the first place, it was in the wrong section—it should've been in the "Trivia" section. But more importantly, Monroe is a pop culture icon—her image is represented in millions of places. I don't think it is necessary to mention them all. —Frecklefoot 18:08, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Reason for removal

message: In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 21:45, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gay Icon Project 

message: The language in this article is awful, gushing tripe. Why does the 'Early Life' article start with: 
"She's the most famous star in Hollywood history. An actress whose magical screen presence, phenomenal sex appeal and radiant charm is still felt today and copied by everyone from Madonna to Paris Hilton.
And although she is still feted around the world as the leading lady of the 20th Century, her humble beginnings couldn't have been more different."
The italic 'the' is unnecessary. The use of words like 'magical' and 'radiant' scan like some terrible Biography channel script. Everything that's wrong with this infuriating website is contained within this article.
Not only that, but what is the big deal with Marilyn Monroe, anyway?  Admittedly, she was a little before my time, but so were Grace Kelly and Ingrid Bergman, and they were truly hot.  Marilyn's supposed attractiveness was based largely on being a childlike idiot.  Maybe a lot of men of that era were into that.  God only knows why.  But her failed marriages point to the fact that the novelty of her scatterbrained nature soon wore out its welcome.  Wahkeenah 12:27, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awful Language 

message: In the Early life section the foster parents are mentioned. First the man is called Albert, but 2 other times he is called Wayne. Which is his real name? - Jóna Þórunn, Iceland. --81.15.36.126 21:47, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albert or Wayne? 

message: There's still a mess in the article with her real name referring to Norma JEAN and JEANE with an E.
Even pop songs ("Norma Jean wants to be a movie star", Cunningham, 1974) never spell her with an e at the end.
Could this article at least be accurate with respect to this?
Frankly: I do not know the right spelling either.
But it should really be one and the same, not a mix.
-andy
80.129.105.231 10:22, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norma Jean(e) spelling inaccuracy 

message: Guys, there is a major paradox in her early life.  It says that she was sent to orphangages in LA when the Goddard's moved east and that she was sexually abused at the orphanages.  Then it says she was with the Goddard's at the time she met James Dougherty (check out James Dougherty, it says the same).  So which was it?  Did she meet James so she wouldn't have to go to the orphanages, or was she already in the orphanages? CHB 15:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Orphanage Inconsistency

message: I have just polished the language style up to (not including) the death to try and make it slightly more encyclopedia-like rather than biographical. I hope it's a little bit of an improvement. Arnie587 01:12, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Article improvement

message: The article contains a non-sensical couple of sentences in the 6th paragraph of the marriage section:
On February 4, 1961, she was admitted by her then-psychiatrist into Manhattan's Payne-Whitney Clinic, reportedly placed in the ward for the most seriously disturbed. He got her out six days later, and took her to the Payne Whitney Psychiatric Clinic at New York Presbyterian Hospital 
Does anyone have the necessary information to correct this? Arnie587 01:12, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Anomaly

message: As a previous poster commented, this article has a goofy number of images. The following two overlap so I'm moving them here in accordance with Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Image_queuing. --squirrel 20:41, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Gallery 

message: There is not a single credentialed historian that I have seen -- critical or supportive -- who believes MM and RFK had an affair. There are critical and supportive historians who refute this, pointing to J.E. Hoover's desire to have dirt on RFK and the fact that the younger Kennedy was morally clean. This in fact was a major frustration for JEH.
:Who are you? When did you write this?  Achilles2006 05:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: RFK

message: She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show. He is a preacher and Evangelist and he drives expensive cars and has a huge expensive house that God paid for and the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her. 
 
After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said:  
"I don't need YOUR Jesus" 
  
A week later, she was found dead in her apartment.
:Correction. A week later, she was found dead in her house.
:So, I'm confused.  Does this mean she was killed by God.  The same one that paid for Billy Graham's house?Rossrs 01:05, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Her mockery

message: Is it really necessary to include the rather insignificant Laurel Award rankings in the "Awards and Nominations" section? Practically every A-list star got a Laurel nod back then. Their inclusion only makes the list heavier and more blurry. --Downtownstar 15:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since nobody seems to oppose, I'm going to erase the Laurel Awards.--Downtownstar 06:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Laurel Awards 

message: do you know that she commtitted suicide, but then as she felt hewrslef going under, she made a telephone call to someone because she changed her mind, but he didnt come, and instead call her psychiatrist, who then call the housekeeper to check on her. At about 3 am in  the morining, she was found dead with her hand on the phone. the point is that she decided to commit suicide by taking and overdose of sleeping pills, but chnaged her mind and called a few people, who i forgot what their names were, but no one came and it was too late.
she was going through many bad things that time, and she had recently been fired, and she was aging... It is just very sad, because all those people who took her as an empty headed blonde, and all those people who tried to replace her.. she showed them.
When interviewed, all the women said that if they knew she was going to die, they would never have made any comments about her. 
she was also upset because she wanted children very badly, but she had many miscarriages.
:I don't think the cause her death has been verified yet; no one's exactly sure. Remember to sign you posts, please. Snowonster 02:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  death 

message: Is she the most famous?  She has been called that... but I think we could use to temper the language... (not sure for how many versions it has been that way...) gren グレン 18:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What method should we use? "Marilyn Monroe has been cited as one of the most famous actresses of the twentieth-century"? —Eternal Equinox | talk 19:19, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It really is a matter of opinion, whichever way you look at it. I fixed the sentence a little, now it simply states she's one of the most famous.--Downtownstar 16:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, somebody keeps reverting the sentences back so that she's called "the most famous" and "the most bankable" star of all-time. These superlatives are clearly POV and there's absolutely no evidence to back up the "most bankable" claim. I'm not fixing them anymore because I don't want a war, but don't you think the expressions are rather unencyclopedic?--Downtownstar 15:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They are completely unencyclopedic, completely inappropriate and  inaccurate. I've reverted.   For one thing she never became "the most bankable" - see the Quigley poll, regarded as one of the most credible barometers of an actor's success -  and you'll see Monroe never topped the list of top 10 bankable stars although she made the top 10 in 1953, 1954 and 1958..  Not all of her films were profitable, although many of them were.  Much of Monroe's fame and certainly a large part of her iconic status have developed in the years since her death.    This page is like many that become the domain of overzealous fans who should carefully read WP:POV and WP:NPOV. Rossrs 21:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They have a point, though. She's almost always referred to as the most famous... Snowonster 02:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Most famous" 

message: I uploaded a picture of the crypt where Marylin Monroe is buried. I linked to it from the Death of Marilyn Monroe article, but not sure if it should show up in htis article. Maybe if a few more words are added here about where she is buried. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:59, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crypt picture 

message: An observation from the few Monroe films I've seen - she seemed to have a consistent style of wit and brilliant delivery, from as early as All About Eve - but I'm wondering who wrote the lines? Did she have any input? Or did she get typecast, with writers continuing to write the same kinds of parts to play, and the same style of witty dialogue? I'm also thinking of her comment about her playboy shoot - "It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on," which I had assumed she came up with herself, though I don't know. Anyone know more about this? --Singkong2005 14:28, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's usually the writers...but sometimes it's the actors who put their own touch on a movie with their own on-the-moment lines. Snowonster 02:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comedic skills & witty lines

message: Do the words "mental hospital", "modelling agency" and other generic nouns really need to be linked?  This article is in need of more serious quality control than this, but taking out the links to non-encyclopedaic articles would at least be a start.
:Please remember to sign your posts, please. Snowonster 02:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Superfluous links 

message: Did Mariyln Monroe have a daughter or not??? Can someone please add something here??
I dont think she had a daughter... they would've revealed themself by now if she did...
No, Marilyn never had a child. She had one ectopic pregnancy that had to be ended to save her life, and at least two other miscarriages. This is because she suffered the disease endometriosis, which greatly affected her life. This disease would explain her fatigue, the pain would explain her absences from work (as with any disease, endo often causes women to be unable to work), her addiction to painkillers, it could have added to her depression. It seems odd to me that it doesn't get commented on much by biographers when it clearly caused great devastation to her life. I believe she tried all the medical treatments at the time, including surgery, but none were successful. They barely understand the disease today so it must have been much worse in the 50s. LouiseCooke
*It's much easier to dismiss it as her being unreliable etc. Although with the number of pro-MM documentaries produced ,you'd think they would mention this more? Dollvalley 15:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: LouiseCooke is right, I have a book on Marilyn and it said her endometriosis caused her to have long and painful periods and eventually she had to be put on a strong birth control. Youch. --24.160.222.253 21:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DAUGHTER?? 

message: I thoroughly edited the article. Hopefully it's a little less POV now. Let me know how I did and please don't hesitate working on it as well. --Downtownstar 22:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning 

message: From the article: Talked a club owner into booking Ella Fitzgerald [19];
the url for [19] is "http://www.findadeath.com/" which I'm guessing is vandalism.  But I don't know the original url....
:How is that vandalism? It's a legitimate URL.
:P.S. Please sign your comments, thank you.--Downtownstar 20:29, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Coincidentally, I just happened to add the Ella reference (under Stardom), which cites Wikiquote.  This is a well-known citation and should be non-controversial.  If it's removed, I think we should call it vandalism. J M Rice 03:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible vandalism? 

message: I removed the citation tag because I don't see the article to be in dire need of citations.  Wikipedia policy is that citations are needed for controversial assertions.  I didn't notice anything egregious in that respect.  I suggest that, if others think citations are needed, it would be better, in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines, to use specific  tags inside the article. Frankly, I think this article is ready for at least GA status. — J M Rice 03:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation Tag Removed 

message: We wish to advise everyone that we (the Living Trust Network) have a copy of Marilyn Monroe's Last Will and Testament posted on our website, which we believe is of interest to anyone seeking information about the life of Marilyn Monroe. We have also discussed our desire to post a link to Marilyn Monroe's Last Will and Testament with Wikipedia administrators [See User talk:Livingtrust], either under "references" or "external links." Last Will and Testament of Marilyn Monroe. Wikipedia does not object to the link but has requested that we not put the link up ourselves since we are a commercial website. Instead, it has requested that we make it known that the Last Will and Testament is available, and anyone who wishes to add the link to the "reference" section or the "external links" section may do so. So, we solicite your help in adding the link set forth above. Thanks. Livingtrust 03:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the link, because it was added by an anonymous IP adding multiple links to your site. You need to have a consensus here instead. Wmahan. 05:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last Will and Testament of Marilyn Monroe 

message: I'm sure that can't be true. What about Hedy Lamarr in Ecstasy? This seems doubtful even if it is restricted to American films and actresses, though I don't have an example. Clarityfiend 21:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First nude scene by a major actress? 

message: Sigh, again, this article is perpetuating an inaccuracy. Why do people go back and forth on this issue? Today, a size 5 dress is not the same as it was in Marilyn's time. A five would be considered a medium, then, but would be considered a small size today: the actual measurements went up. According to Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm), which tracked down her measurements, Marilyn might have been a size 12, perhaps a size 10 by today's markers. They also point out, as this article does not, that Marilyn's weight cycled due to factors such as pregnancy, weight gain and loss. Leaving the "5" in without noting that sizes have gotten larger while the numbers have stayed the same is inaccurate. 67.10.133.121 22:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Marilyn Monroe's dress size 

message: There may be some unnecessary obfuscation in the sentence that reads "Hyde also arranged for her to have plastic surgery on her nose and chin, adding that to prior-made teeth cosmetic surgery."  Would it be better to revise the latter bit to something like, "...her nose and chin.  (Monroe had undergone cosmetic dentistry at a prior time.)"? Robert K S 19:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "prior-made teeth cosmetic surgery"

message: June "DiMaggio" never existed--her real name is June E. Elpine ...
PR Inside (Pressemitteilung) - Wien,Austria
Last year this woman came out of nowhere and claimed to have been Marilyn Monroe's friend for eleven years. Nobody had ever heard ...
http://www.pr-inside.com/june-dimaggio-never-existed-her-real-name-is-june-e-elpine-she-never-met-marilyn-monroe-claims-r25776.htm
Should more evidence come forth, especially from more generally accepted sources (e.g. the AP or a reputable historian), then a re-write would have to be considered.
Until then I leave this for the perusal of the interested.
PainMan 14:21, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  June DiMaggio is not who she claims she is! 

message: Come on you can do better. A picture of a bug-eyed Marilyn on the phone is not the right picture to start off the Wiki article on this cultural icon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lester113 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it has to be a public domain image, so that immediately limits the candidates. Have a look at Wikipedia's collection of Marilyn Monroe public domain images and see what we currently have to work with.  If you see anything you like then go ahead and change it, but it's a pretty sorry collection.  Don't forget that you are a Wikipedia editor yourself, so you are a part of the "you" who "can do better".  If you can find a really good public domain image to use, it would be welcome.  Rossrs 10:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I posted a new photo.  It meets the guidelines. NYKenny 15:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening Picture 

message: Scott, I tried to email you many times, but the emails are bouncing back. Are you okay?! I am posting some very important information that hopefully will be added in the appropriate way by some caring Marilyn Monroe fan into the main page. 
I tried to add this before to the main page about Marilyn Monroe--but some vicious individual just erased it without a comment.
The Monroe history has moved way beyond the photographers lawsuit.
Please edit and take whatever is appropriate for this forum and site. The biggest deal in Marilyn Monroe history right now is the fraud that is happening. If on eBay or live auctions; or through a fraudulent exhibit that almost took off to tour the world fro twelve years. Please work this piece of information into the main page.
People need to be warned as well as informed and updated. 
I understand that this is a discussion board, so please, would anybody spend a moment to add this officially to the Aftermath section. Cause that is where it belongs. Happy Holidays and thank you.
 
Mark Roesler named as one of the defendants in the Queen Mary exhibit class action lawsuit
Mark Roesler is one of the three defendants that have been named in the class action lawsuit, which was filed on May 26, 2006, by plaintiffs Ernest W. Cunningham and Emily Sadjady, both Los Angeles, CA residents.
The lawsuit was also filed against Robert W. Otto from Chicago, IL, and the Queen Mary corporation, which presented the now stopped 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit,' which opened its doors to the public at Mark Roesler's own office building in Indianapolis in December of 2004. The admission fee was $25.
The lawsuit was filed in order to get the paying visitors their money back. The admission fee in Long Beach, CA was $22.95. The exhibit stayed for seven months and made an estimated $1.5 million in admission fees alone.
While trying to be reached for several interviews in February, 2006; after the release of actor and Marilyn Monroe memorabilia collector Mark Bellinghaus' blog article, which also named Mark Roesler, the lawyer did never state anything in public about his involvement into the exhibition frauds in two different American cities and states.
The majority of the Marilyn Monroe memorabilia on display, the items that were claimed to originate from the legend herself, were found to be fraudulent by Mark Bellinghaus, the world's leading Marilyn Monroe expert.
The first item named in the lawsuit describes a plastic set of hair curlers made by Clairol. This item was produced in 1974. Marilyn Monroe died in 1962. 
The opening of 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit' was the media spectacle of the year. Every Los Angeles news station was present, everyone wanted to interview the leading people involved in this spectacle. To see and hear Robert Otto, Mark Roesler's partner in this exhibit, and June DiMaggio, who served as authenticity for over 90% of the fake items, watch the video option.
The hair rollers originated, like most of the exhibtion fakes from a woman that appreared out of nowhere, as she never was mentioned in any literature about Marilyn Monroe, or Joe DiMaggio. June Alpino aka June 'DiMaggio' served as authenticity for the fake Otto collection. Due to her advanced age she was spared from being part of the lawsuit. She is 83 years of age, not 78, as she claims in her book. She was 19 years when her mother married Tom DiMaggio, not 14 as she wants the reader to believe. There is no indication or proof, that June Alpino was ever legally adopted. She named herself 'DiMaggio' in the mid 1950s.
Mark Roesler is still standing behind June Alpino aka June 'DiMaggio's' book. 
He still can be seen on his website, talking in an interview to all of the main characters involved. The show is dated December 9, 2005. "Contest Rules" to win a free ticket for 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit'; Mark Roesler's owned CMG is also named in this listing. 
In an interview for the Los Angeles Times, Mr. Mark Roesler appraised the value of the now sued exhibition.
He also insulted fans and collectors from around the world. People who would buy Marilyn Monroe items, that have been licensed by his own company, CMG Worldwide.
The Washington Post portrayed former Marilyn Monroe estate lawyer Roger Richman and Mark Roesler in an interview from December 7, 2004.
He insulted people who would buy Marilyn Monroe items, that have been licensed by his own company, CMG Worldwide.
Mark Roesler also acted as one of the major sponsors of 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit.'
In this interview, conducted by staff writer Robert W. Welkos, there is also evidence, that the Hollywood Museum rejected the Otto / Roesler exhibit in early 2005. Mr. Roesler didn't give up, after learning how many fakes were in Mr. Otto's collection. There were several claimed pairs of shoes of Marilyn Monroe, all of them in different shoe sizes. A claimed original USO card from Marilyn Monroe turned out to be a cheap photo copy.
There were interviews shown on Mark Roesler's website which had Robert Otto showing parts of his collection and creating one story after the next, attached to each item. Mark Roesler would ask numerous times about the value of different items. Those interviews were pulled off www.markroesler.com, after Mark Bellinghaus published his first blog article on blogcritics.org. The Mark Roesler owned www.MarilynMonroe.com disconnected itself fast from ties to "Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit," as it was dedicating a large space on that website to the fraudulent exhibit. Marilyn authority Mark Bellinghaus exposed his findings in his second article which explained the ties between Mark Roesler and Robert Otto.
For insurance purposes, the list of items was investigated right after the lawsuit was filed. The plastic hair curlers from 1974 were insured for $300,000.00. Collector Mark Bellinghaus bought the same model for $7.99 on eBay after the original was pulled from the running exhibit in March, 2006 and disappeared for good after being exposed in numerous Los Angeles publications.
This item will be of high interest in the class action lawsuit which will take place on May 7, 2007 in Los Angeles, Ca.
Anna Strasberg, the owner of the estate of Marilyn Monroe still has not stated anything in regards to the Marilyn Monroe exhibition fraud, but she most certainly received parts of the admission money.
On April 10, 2006, a Wall Street Journal article, by staff writer Nathan Koppel mentions her as taking full charge of the estate of Marilyn Monroe.
"Anna thinks about and handles" Ms. Monroe's image "from the moment she wakes up," says William Wegner, her attorney.
In order to remove any doubts about the exhibit, The Los Angeles Times, unknowingly, delivered the strongest evidence against Mark Roesler. On March 23, 2006, Robert W. Welkos printed an appraisal statement of the lawyer, which is serving now as proof, that Mark Roesler lied in public and tried to bluff the fans and collectors:
Mark Roesler, chairman and chief executive of CMG Worldwide Inc., the Indianapolis-based company that licenses the names and likenesses of 250 celebrities, including Monroe, said he remains absolutely convinced that Otto's collection is authentic and has appraised it as being worth $8.75 million. He said he's not at all surprised by the allegations of fraud.
"You always have jealous fan club members and collectors who question such things," Roesler said. "It goes with the territory."
The last try to get away with the fraudulent exhibit was a 'facelift' of the months old exhibition in Long Beach. Almost all of the exposed items were replaced with items that were not on display at exhibit opening. But it was too late and the extention of the exhibit was the 'last breath' of 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit.'
On his Wikipedia page Mark Roesler is being portrayed as representing 400 personalities, but in The Los Angeles Times interview, which is still the most recent interview, he is stating 250 celebrities. A difference of 150 clients?
Roesler is asking on his website for donations for his own Legends Museum, which is located in his office building in Indianapolis, IN, which hosted the opening for the fraudulent Marilyn Monroe exhibit.
On his website www.MarkRoesler.com, the star lawyer is currently playing a video from a speech, that he has given on May 31, 2005,five months after the opening of 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit,' at Mark Roesler's CMG building in Indianapolis, IN, and six month before the next and ultimately the final stop of the exhibit in Long Beach, CA.
Mark Roesler has not come forward with any sort of statement or explanation in regards to the exhibition fraud which he fully supported with statements, interviews, personal appearances and even bringing in one of his famous clients. Legendary Playboy magazine publisher Hugh Hefner appeared on November 10, 2005, at the press opening for the biggest scam in exhibition history.
If Mark Roesler's 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit' would not have been stopped, and instead had toured for the next twelve years, to over 39 cities worldwide as announced at exhibit's opening, it could have easily created $100 million.
But more important than money, it would have created shame for the United States of America and it would have turned Marilyn Monroe into something that she never was or wanted to be--a joke! 
: Why on Earth does this ridiculously long, POV-plagued text keep appearing in the article? --Downtownstar 04:26, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect, whoever you are (please sign your comments in the future), it is not appropriate to make such major additions on Wikipedia articles before reaching consensus among other editors. Furthermore, while I sympathize with your honest and endearing fondness to this particular subject, I'd like to politely remind you that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a forum where you're allowed to state your opinion on this kind of subjects, no matter how right you may be. Please stop adding nonsense here, no-one here wants a war. Thanks and Happy Holidays!--Downtownstar 08:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

text: This is not a discussion forum, it is a page to discuss improvements to the Wikipedia article on Marilyn Monroe. Information you have gathered yourself is no use for the article, as it violates our rule against original research. I hope you will understand that repeatedly adding the info against consensus is likely to get you blocked. --Guinnog 06:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Message for PainMan / for your consideration: 

message: Her career began in small roles, she gradually became known for her comedic skills and screen presence, going on to become one of the most popular movie stars of the 1950s.
this sentence is grammatically incorrect with the first comma. it should either be a 'period' or replace with 'and.'
the word 'As' could be used to begin the sentence, making it correct.
thoughts?
The undertow 09:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening paragraph 

message: I logged off my account and tried to edit this article, and it let me! Isn't this article supposed to be protected by unregistered users? 68.121.145.107 21:25, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was protected with an autoexpiration which has passed.  I don't know if a non-admin can remove the tag. --After Midnight 0001 21:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Protection's not working?

message: I had recently read in an online article that Marilyn Monroe has had several abortions including the child of President John F. Kennedy can anyone give more clarification on this subject and if it is true or not true?? 68.162.0.79 03:10, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Alleged Abortions

message: What was Marilyn Monroe's UK dress size? I've read in magazines that it was a UK 14-16. Is this true? 212.139.171.139 17:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dress Size?

message: Can somebody add to the article about how women like Madonna and Nicole Smith are/were inspired by her? I would do, but the page is semi-protected.
I haven't read the whole thing, so maybe they're already there, but it's important. 212.139.171.139 17:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Anna Nicole Smith...

message: An alleged Monroe short porn movie featuring a wall-socket powered dildo(!) has just been uploaded to the web from FBI archives. Some say it is a fake, i.e. the girl in it is actually "Airline Hunter", a Playboy centrefold and B-class movie actress from 1954, instead of MM. Not that it matters any, MM was a highly talented, lovable icon, way above the current crop of Paris and Britney junk.
Anyhow, here is the footage:
http://index.hu/img/assets/video/playere.swf?file=/cinematrix/marilyn —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.131.210.162 (talk) 11:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very pink 

message: is there a way to clean up the 2nd paragraph?  it starts with 'Her Mexican-born mother, Gladys Pearl Monroe (born in Piedras Negras, Mexico), had returned from Kentucky.'  then it goes off topic.  what is this sentence in relation to? was she born, to have her mother leave, and then return?  i don't know much about miss monroe, but the early life seems to be non-linear.The undertow 07:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: More details with documentation on her early life, parents, ancestors here. Wjhonson 00:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  early years 

message: A google search on "latin Cursum Perficio" will get you past most of the Enya stuff and link to several pages offering up translations for various Latin phrases. The most common translations for "Cursum Perficio" are "My journey is over", "My journey ends here", "I make an end to my course", etc. I've only seen one translation for "Stay on course" (but others closer to "I have stayed the course" or "I have completed the course" which is nearer to the sense of the other translations) from a google search on "Cursum Perficio" (no "latin") that leads to someone's personal website and a claim to the family motto. So, not speaking Latin, I'd go with the preponderence of google evidence and I have cited the item as such. Ave atque vale! (Hail and farewell). Wiggy! 07:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: this really depends on the literal translation.  the word 'course' derives from 'cursum,' so i am inclined to use it (course), rather than 'journey.' 'perficio' means to 'complete or finish.' i believe the most literal of translations would be 'i completed my course.' the_undertow talk 07:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fair and essentially has the same sense. There was some short back-and-forth over which of the translations was correct, and I couldn't see any evidence for "Stay on course" (which was being pushed by an overly agressive editor I've come across elsewhere). This was way more civilized. Thanks for your help! Wiggy! 08:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cursum Perficio

message: I added this to the misc. facts section. SmokeyTheCat 17:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And I removed it, since you not only misspelled Brigitte Bardot's name but also failed to provide a convincing source.(And even if you had provided one, this gossip bit is far from encyclopedic info). --Downtownstar 10:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

text: The least you could have done was to spell her name correctly. In any case, some wise people removed your entry before I got to it again. It's good to know I'm not alone here.--Downtownstar 09:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I didn't mean to sound judgmental. I'm sure you had the fairest of intentions. It's just that Wikipedia is not a porn magazine. It's an encyclopedia, and encyclopedias don't give a rat's arse for what turns on red-blooded males - or females.--Downtownstar 13:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bridgette Bardot

message: can somebody talk about how he was inspired by her?70.126.190.77 23:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: seems like his inspirations would be a better fit on his page? the_undertow talk 23:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just put it on anyways, and its on the charles manson page, i think70.126.190.77 23:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marilyn Manson  

message: Shouldn't this article be semi-protected for a while? It has been the target of extensive daily vandalism for quite a while. I already launched the semi-protection template once, but I accept the fact it was removed since I didn't discuss it. Opinions?--Downtownstar 13:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we need to vote for this? Some kind of a reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.--Downtownstar 19:55, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Done. Vandalism levels seem pretty high and, looking at the history, in some cases it has taken a while to revert vandal edits. Hopefully they'll lose interest if they can't edit the page for a while. WjBscribe 17:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection 

message: :In the Marriages section, under James Dougherty, it says he fathered a child with her (which I'm really sure he did not), and that her name was Ana Nicole Dougherty. I know Anna Nicole Smith tried to be Marilyn Monroe, and that would be an interesting tie-in for her name change, but since the veracity of the claim is the most important, I think it should be removed, or at least a source cited. One thing it does say is that he was said to be the father of her child on To Tell the Truth, but there's no easy way to really check on that.
:Hopefully we can do something to fix this, but to be honest, I didn't want to delete it without confirmation on the talk page. Thank you.
--JamisonK 23:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Daughter?

message: I don't know whether she was Jewish or not, but if the article is categorized under Jewish American Actors, shouldn't it be mentioned somewhere in the article (like every other article about Jewish people - "... was born into a Jewish family in ...")? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.68.70.25 (talk) 15:33, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, she converted to Judaism, and this is mentioned in the article. (See the Arthur Miller section) Mad Jack 17:24, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish American Actor? 

message: Marilyn was NOT born under the name Norma Jeane Mortenson, she was actually born under the name Norma Jeane BAKER. This is a common misconception, because it is believed that Mr. Mortenson was her father, but she was BORN under the surname BAKER. Just wanted to point that out.
: Mortenson was her legal and official birthname, whoever the father was. There is cold hard proof of this in the references of the article.--Downtownstar 23:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ERROR IN MAIN PAGE 

message: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Blonde Bombshell was not her name at any point. Someone keeps editing the infobox and adding this as one of names. I have no choice but to keep reverting unless there is proof that it was indeed a name of hers.--Downtownstar 14:51, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blonde bombshell 

message: Her original name, "Norma Jeane Mortensen" is incurrectly written "Norma Jeane MortenSON" in this article. Since her non-biological father was Norwegian her name would end with "Sen", witch in this case will mean "son" in Norwegian. Mortensen basicly means Morten's son in Norwegian.  "Son" is only used in Swedish and Icelandic. --80.202.209.125 17:26, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure that would be the logical conclusion, but her birth certificate says Mortenson, so we'll have to stick with that.--Downtownstar 17:22, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Her name 

message: Regarding the Peter Lawford quote:
Say goodbye to Pat, say goodbye to the president, and say goodbye to yourself, because you're a nice guy.[...]I'll see, I'll see. 
Might I recommend caution? The above has been disputed by several reputable sources as it is only Lawford's word, and he has been implicated in her death, as having been involved on some level. We also know that it is likely that MM was already dead by the time he claimed that she phoned him. The quote seems to have been given with the intention of implying suicide. 
It's a pity the phone records were "lost" or we might have some idea of who and when she called people that ill fated night.--Nicole A. Jenkins 11:04, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peter Lawford Quote 

message: Anyone know of the claims by Robert Slatzer that he was married briefly to MM in 1953 and should they be added.BigDunc 12:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In his book there is a copy of a marriage certificate. Who knows?--Julia0101 05:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marrage claims 

message: WHEN is Hollywood going to make a good Marilyn Monroe film. Monroe's story is one to be told. I have a feeling that not everyone takes her very seriously but all that will change when once a movie is made , and made right. I want to know who will portray her. I've been thinking really hard but had nothing. User: MovieGuru2006 5;20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia discussion pages are not forums or message boards. You may discuss issues here relating to the article but other issues extranaeous to the article you may discuss at any of the Marilyn Monroe fan sites. Tovojolo 00:03, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WHEN 

message: Please provide her height in metric system too, in brackets. That'd be 166 cm. 83.9.70.228 17:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  height 

message: "Her mother Gladys Pearl Monroe was born in Porfirio Diaz, Mexico..."
There needs to be a comma before and a comma after her name. I'd do it myself, but the article's locked.
Polyhymnia 05:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comma splice 

message: The following is incorrect on the main page, somebody should fix it, "Her death was ruled as an overdose of sleeping pills". This is not true, not sleeping pills. I have a copy of her "Office Of County Coroner" report, file 81128, Aug 5, 1962, which has been published many times. Her death was a result of "Acute Barbiturate Poisoning", "The stomach is almost completely empty... No residue of pills is noted. A smear made from the gastric contents and examined under the polarized microscope shows no refractile crystals." If there were no pills in her system, and they were digested, then there had to be refractile crystals.  That is the reason her cause of death was declared a “Probable suicide and not “Suicide”.--Julia0101 06:12, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: PS-Someone should also wrtie about the May 16, 2007, New York Christie’s auction house sale of a painting of Marilyn Monroe titled “Lemon Marilyn” by Andy Warhol for a world record of $28,040,000.00 dollars ($28 million). Amazing!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Julia0101 (talk • contribs) 08:25, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's amazing is that you hadn't noticed that the same auction house flogged another work by Warhol, "Green Car Crash", for over double what it got for the Monroe picture, and on the very same occasion (IHT article). Not that art pricing lunacy has anything to do with this article. -- Hoary 15:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Her Death

message: I read some years ago that Gable's heart attack was caused by director John Huston, not Monroe. But I think it's pure speculation either way. Eye.earth 21:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Death of Clark Gable

message: Was Marilyn Monroe related to former U.S. president James Monroe? WooyiTalk to me? 00:40, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Monroe family 

message: Someone keeps adding the sentence "she surpassed the fame of any of her peers" in the opening of the article. Despite the fact Britannia Encyclpoedica says so on their web page, this is clearly a point of view. There is no cold-hard evidence to back up such claims. I won't revert anymore, because that would lead to a war, but can someone give me a thorough explanation on why this is neutral common knowledge and not under dispute? -- Downtownstar 12:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Downtownstar, there is a citation (Encyclpoedica Britannia) and I think most people in the world would agree that she was the most famous female movie star of the 20th century. I think the sentence that you took out and I added back in explains her fame a lot more than just "a measure of success". Just "a measure of success" in not accurate in my opinion and has no wiki citation.--Octavian history (talk) 13:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear you, by all means, have it your way until someone else comes and corrects you. You've got nothing to back up your claim; the website you're providing as a source is not trustworthy or factual - rather, it consists of a biased article written from a perspective of an opinionated person. "I think most people would agree" is absolutely not a credible argument. Have a good one. Downtownstar 16:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Encyclpoedica Britannia absolutely is a reliable source. They use Britannia in almost every school in the US. It is not the word of God, but it is reliable.--Octavian history (talk) 20:02, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Her fame

message: so i found this marilyn quote and was wondering if i should add it to the article. it sounds pretty relevant to me since so many people think she committed suicide...
"A wise girl kisses but doesn't love, listens but doesn't believe, and leaves before she is left"
who else thinks it should be in the quotes section????? --Plavalagunanbanshee (talk) 22:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  quote?? 

message: many of the comments here dated back to 2005. more than old enough to archive. cleaned out assorted WP:FORUM violations, and moved to the archive link, just above. Anastrophe (talk) 17:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: cleaned up and archived

message: someone needs to go and expand the section that talks about the affairs she had with John and Robert Kenndey. This was a big part of her life and it deserves to be talked about more.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.101.77 (talk) 22:05, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not entirely certain the issue even deserves a section of its own.--Downtownstar (talk) 18:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To user 70.189.101.77, if you have factual information and citations, please help expand the section, or write it here (in the talk page) and we can add it for you. I agree that it is an important part of her life, but it's very important to separate the facts from the fiction. Joe DiMaggio told both his son and attorney that "the Kennedys killed her". Many others have also made such claims. I have a lot of respect for Joe DiMaggio and don't believe he would ever make such claims if he did not have a good reason for it.--Octavian history (talk) 05:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: relationship with the kennedys

message: I went back into history and restored all the original detail this article once had, into a new article space.  I don't want to review all that transpired to see *why* it was deleted, but I find all that information very interesting and don't wish to see it vanish into limbo.  If anyone wants to trim *this* Childhood on-article here, I've added the main-article-link to the header to allow for easy movement back and forth. Wjhonson (talk) 10:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Childhood

message: In this unbroken series of edits, spanning fifteen minutes, an IP (i) added adulatory material (or at least an adulatory tone) to the prose, and (ii) made flattering changes to statistics. The flattering changes may for all I know be entirely correct, but their context suggests to me that they may well not be. Somebody more knowledgable about Monroe than I am may wish to check. -- Hoary (talk) 03:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "vital statistics"

message: Do there really need to be 13 citations in just the lead of the article? It makes for very poor readability, especially because most of those things are explored in the article and could very well be cited there instead of junking up the intro.
Icarus of old (talk) 21:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: article lead

message: Please explain why a source other than playboy.com should be used.  There are only 2 editors, an IP address and Roctavia (assuming in good faith that they are seperate), want to use a source other than playboy.com in her playboy infobox.  The edits even include adding ranges to her measurements.  I am positive that is not what the playmate info said in her layout.  If you could explain why you want to do this that would help and maybe you won't get reverted.   Jons63 (talk) 18:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: i think the editor is simply confused, and believes the infobox refers to her measurements in general, rather than as specific to the playboy article. hopefully i made the issue clear in my last reversion edit summary and this silly back and forth will end. Anastrophe (talk) 18:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope so, but I did the same thing earlier and yesterday with the IP.  We will see. Jons63 (talk) 19:13, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Roctavia please discuss here why you want to use a source other than playboy.com for her measurements on her playboy layout and why she would have a range of measurements on her layout.  Jons63 (talk) 02:29, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: i think at this point, with the clear disinterest in discussing the matter, any future edits need to be marked as vandalism, and escalate until blocked. they seem unmoved by anything less. Anastrophe (talk) 07:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my plan, but I was willing to give it one final chance, probably won't work, but the editor can't complain we didn't try. Jons63 (talk) 12:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Roctavia please discuss here why you want to use a source other than playboy.com for her measurements on her playboy layout.  If you change these again without discussing the changes here they will be reverted as vandalism and you will be warned on your talk page.  Please don't push it that far.  Jons63 (talk) 16:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Measurements 

message: Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 06:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers]] priority assessment

message: I cleaned up a bit the section reporting other assertions about her father.  The newspaper article does not mention it, the fan site is not a very useful source and it's own claim is uncited.  And I removed an extraneous line claiming that Monroe believed Gifford was her father.  The birth certificate evidence, the late divorce and the death report of Mortensen all point to him being her father. Extraordinary claims require greater proof.Wjhonson (talk) 05:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Father

message: Where is the section on filmography?Anwar (talk) 01:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was in the section entitled "Movies". I've gone ahead and renamed it to "Filmography" per most other actor/director articles. Graham87 16:10, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Filmography

message: Shes jewish by race or religion.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.226.157 (talk) 02:43, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish 

message: It seems mind boggling to read the paragraph in this article as quoted:
'He encouraged her to apply to the The Blue Book modeling agency. She signed with the agency and began researching the work of famous actresses Jean Harlow and Lana Turner. Monroe enrolled in drama and singing classes and had her hair cut, straightened and lightened to golden blonde.[14]'
And then see the black and white photograph of her during the marriage to Dougherty or while she was working at Radioplane Company. Are there any clear color photographs of her before she worked for the Blue Book modeling agency?  Was she originally a dark blonde, or a brunette?  4.242.174.43 (talk) 12:02, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Marylin Monroe blonde? 

message: Do you think there should be a section about the Marilyn Monroe wine and other products?--Star-in-law (talk) 07:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No. -- Hoary (talk) 10:42, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Marilyn Monroe wine

message: Should there be a section about her lovers?--Star-in-law (talk) 07:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No. But any who had a proven effect on her film work should be mentioned. -- Hoary (talk) 10:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Marilyn lovers