Talk:Alaska boundary dispute

message: So, the British sided with the Americans, and the current border reflects the American claim?
What were the differences between this and the Canadian claim? - Unsigned User:Geo Swan
:Actually, the current boundary does not reflect the maximal U.S. claim.  I'll try to trype in some more info.  AnonMoos 22:23, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The British didn't exactly side with the Americans; the border settlement was an arbitration (the Kaiser again, IIRC, as it had been with his father at the end of the San Juans Dispute).  The British backed down because of threats by T.E. Roosevelt that he would invade and annex British Columbia if he didn't get his way.  The main difference between the British hard position and the way things are now is that under the British terms, thet "Yukon Ports" - Skagway and Haines and Dyea etc would have been "British", i.e. part of British Columbia.
Canada didn't have a say in it, other than consulting London; British North American (Canadian) foreign affairs were still in London's bailiwick at that time (until 1931 or 1927 or something).
As it is under the treaty, the site of Forts Stikine and Taku should be within British Columbia; and in fact the mouths of the Stikine and Taku should be, but they've silted in a few miles downstream since the treaty was signed; the border hasn't been revised to reflect that (obviously not, even though it's in the language; same thing with the mis-survey of the 49th Parallel that's not going to get corrected, either).
There are two sticking points remaining in the Alaska Boundary Settlement.  One is that the treaty stipulates that the western shoreline of the Portland Canal is the boundary; US maps continue to show mid-channel.  Similarly with the A-B Line, which is between Point A and Point B on the north side of the Dixon Entrance; US maps show the boundary as being mid-Dixon Entrance, and the US/Alaska have even issued oil/drilling-exploration permits on "their" side of that line.
Same kind of fudge-up with the Oregon Treaty; during the Salmon War of the mid-1990s Canadian commercial vessels (whale watching boats) were busted by US Coast Guard in the area of the San Juans; but the treaty is very clear that ALL commercial vessels south of the 49th Parallel are to be unhindered; that would even include in Rosario Strait, far from the current border in the Haro Strait; during the same kafuffle Sen. Slade Gorton (State-Sen) in Washington invoked the treaty to demand free passage through the Johnstone Strait for American fishing vessels (nothing of the kind is guaranteed in the Oregon Treaty, or for that matter in the Alaska treaty either) and called on the US Navy to enforce the "international waterway" (which is all of a mile wide in spots).  Thing is it was the US who passed legislation that attacked non-American ships using this route, i.e. the act that makes it so that preference is given to vessels sailing from American port to American port over those from a "foreign port" to an American port; this act was passed specifically to route the Yukon shipping trade through Seattle over Vancouver, even though it was Canadian/British waters that the route traversed.Skookum1 23:15, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: As with my comments on the talk page at Oregon boundary dispute, this article has NPOV issues relating to US-biased perceptions/mythologies of the history.  Example:
:Around that time, the Klondike Gold Rush enormously increased the population of the general area, which reached 30,000, in large part composed of Americans.
"The general area" in this case - from Ketchikan and the Portland Canal to Dyea/Haines/Skagway and the toe of the Malaspina Glacier to Whitehorse and Dawson - is larger than California.  Much larger.  30,000 reached Dawson City in the first wave; how many were turned back at the White Pass or Chilkoot Pass for lack of supplies or carrying weapons, I'm not sure; how many there were in Skagway and Haines at any one time is a matter for estimates based on shipping records.  What's certain is that the Americans in Skagway were dominated by a bunch of hoodlums under Soapy Smith.  Smith and others of his ilk would have stormed the Yukon territory if not held back at the summit of the passes by the RNWMP's gatling guns; annexation a la California or a la Hawaii would have proceeded apace; don't forget Hawaii has only recently been illegally seized and annexed by the US, and the US was busy in a nasty imperialist war against Spain (under the guise of anti-imperialism, of course); Britain had every reason to get jumpy; Canada (meaning the central Canadian polity in TO, Ottawa and Mtl) every reason to want a compromise, as they would be the main battlefield of a US-Britain war at this time (other than the high seas).  But that's what Roosevelt was threatening; found that out at the AMNH, actually, as a spin-off find of the fresco concerning TER's brokering of the Russo-Japanese Peace a few years later; not sure of the source but once I find it I'll post it of course.
Anyway, the quoted line needs reworking; 'mostly Americans' in the context here gives the impression of backing up the extreme US claims - which would have shut the British/Canadians off the summits of the passes and wound up with de facto annexation of the Yukon and northwestern BC/Atlin-Stikine areas.  One glaring omission is that the original Russo-UK treaties specified British control of the Yukon ports and Stikine and Taku estuaries; and the US claims abrogated that.  NPOV issues are really common in articles dealing with common US-Canada history; the San Juan Dispute comes to mind also, as well as the Oregon; and the Aroostook War comes off the same way in its current form.  This is a failing of Canadian input as much as it is the usual blindness of American writers to other national perspectives; makes me think I should have a look over the Mexican-American War article to see how fairly (or not) the Mexican view is presented.  Similarly, the annexation of California and Hawaii involve rather nasty political issues of the adventurist, filibustering kind; but I wonder if those state articles include anything about that.
Not that I want to dump on the Alaska Project, and I'm interested in learning more about specifics of Alaskan history (I'm in BC); but I do want to remind all writers for Wikipedia that the US view of history isn't the only view; and when writing articles concerning other Powers and their proxies the other points of view should be presented; this is not a US school textbook, but an open-input information resource not meant to have national biases or political ties.  NonPOV right?  Make it so.Skookum1 18:09, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV issues again

message: I'm the one who came forward with this, although I see someone else adjusted the language of my original item.  Where I first came across it myself was - for some reason - during a visit to the AMNH in New York City, where the murals in the main lobby celebrate Roosevelt's involvement in ending the Russo-Japanese War; it may have been in bumpf from the museum, or in an article I was reading around that time (in what I admit to not remembering) and I remarked on it because I had never seen it mentioned before, which surprised me as I know my NW border histories fairly well; since then I've come across it again in a couple of local histories, albeit in different language than I remember it (which was an out-and-out ultimatum).  So OK, I'll have to dig it up, short of finding an exhaustive history of the Alaska Boundary Dispute itself (several months ago I saw a really interesting book on Russo-British war concerns in the North Pacific, even after 1867, but didn't have the cash to buy it...).  
The particular threat as it was "given" to me in whichever article, was that Roosevelt had threatened to invade and annex British Columbia if the US didn't get its way on the Yukon Ports and other aspects of the Boundary; the British were busy elsewhere in the world (esp. South Africa during the particular time period in question) and, while not liking to give ground to the US, contented themselves with control of the pass summits and the main goldfields.  Such extremist threats are commonplace in PacNW history; such as Slade Gorton's demands (as if he'd had the authority to order it) for the US Navy to "force the Inside Passage" during the Salmon War of the 1990s.  I don't think the British were all that worried about war; more they were dismayed by Roosevelt's lack of diplomatic couth in making such a threat; he was strutting tall after taking down the Spanish Empire by a few notches.  I think what the connection to the AMNH might have been was to do with the idea that Roosevelt's pro-Japanese diplomacy in wound up plunking the Russians and British into an unlikely alliance, and it was the legacy of the Alaska Boundary Settlement that made the British view the Roosevelt's Russo-Japanese settlement somewhat warily; it may have been in whatever discussed that that the reference to invade and annex British Columbia was mentioned.
As for the other change to the article that there were "claims" that Canadian citizens were harrassed by US authorities and individuals, this is a truism and axiomatic to the history of the whole affair.  Quick reference here is in Pierre Berton's Klondike, which discusses the various nastinesses of Soapy Smith and others, and also discusses the harrassment and regulation of British/Canadian-registered shipping accessing the Yukon ports (Skagway, Haines, Dyea); whatever that US shipping act that requires ships from one US port to another US port to not stop anywhere else, that was EXPLICITLY legislated to hurt shipping and freight companies in Victoria and Vancouver, favouring Seattle-Skagway (e.g.) over Vancouver-Skagway; even though nearly all traffic along the route was bound for British/Canadian territory (the Yukon), and Skagway and Haines et al were actually on disputed soil to start with (never mind that they were being run by a bunch of hooligans).  So for THAT "claim" - that Canadians were harrassed by Americans during the dispute - I'll gladly cite Berton, and he's not alone......Skookum1 06:44, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found my cite for this, an old news clipping I'd thankfully saved which just got found during a spring cleaning toss-out....it's from the Toronto Globe and Mail and I guess I confused it with the AMNH because I read it during, or around the time of, my trip to New York and it was on my mind when I was in the AMNH.  My glasses are missing so I'll just transcribe the last relevant paragraph of the article for now, but later when I can see better I'll type out the whole thing as it also provides "BCPOV".  Hmmm....having trouble reading it; date of article/column is July 1, 2000 (or July ?? 12?  2? too blurry to see....sigh), and the column was by a Ron Haggart, on the main Op-Ed page ("Comment" section in the Globe's layout).  More details later but I knew this was the case; corroborative information on roosevelt' threat to declare war if the US didn't get its way on the Yukon Ports (NB in need of an article); there must be something in thte diplomatic histories of this that Haggart got his information from.Skookum1 21:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Roosevelt's Threat

message: For the interest of anyone contributing to this page, I have copied into a sandbox page a passage in the British Columbia Chronicle Adventures by Sea and Land by Helen B. and G.P.V. Akrigg a few pages concerning the HBC-RAC agreement of 1839 in regard to the RAC leasing the mainland of the Panhandle to the HBC in return for a supply of foodstuffs and other considerations.  Please see the relevant section on my BC & Pacific Northwest resources sandbox.Skookum1 23:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: HBC-RAC agreement of 1839 re Panhandle trading rights

message: The text states
"Canada was, however, entitled to a consolation prize in obtaining a triangle of land called the Panhandle (the Tatshenshini-Alsek region of British Columbia)"
When I look at the map I do not see any area that increases the Canadian claim. The T-A area itself appears to be smaller than the Canadian claim. Is it a consolation prize to not be as big a loser as we could have been?  
Could someone explain the given statement.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.5.156 (talk) 01:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure exactly what you mean.......I think the context is that the British, by insisting on Mount Fairweather and the inland part of the Tatshenshini-Alsek as British/Canadian territory, wound up ensuring that BC retained some of its rights in the region, vs the portion south of Wrangell were they were ignored.....the map also isn't fully correct re the US claim, though maybe reflects the official treat negotiation position.....by the Yanks referred to Whitehorse and Atlin as "Whitehorse, Alaska" and "Atlin, Alaska" so it would suggest that the blue line of the American claim here isn't placed far enough inland; same on the STikine, where there's a good 100 miles difference.Skookum1 (talk) 07:08, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: consolation prize

message: The removal of the Tarr Inlet and (ofr now) Portland Canala sections by User:van helsing I can deal with, but not the censorship of the Dixon Entrance matter.  This is citable simply by looking at a comparison of NTS and USGS maps, with the latter showing US drilling leases in waters that aren't the property of the US.  The Dixon Entrance page is a wikicite for this also, and lately I seem to recall various webrefs about it; it's a well-known diplomatic "dispute" between the US and Canada (meaning hta Ottawa keeps it on the backburner as leverage on other issues but it never gets resolved for fear of upsetting Frank Murkowski....).  There might be some rationale-wording that needs changing in the removed text:
:Although the treaty stipulates the north side of the Dixon Entrance, the United States has ignored this provision of the treaty and maintains the boundary is in the middle of the Dixon Entrance and has proceeded with drilling surveys and allocations in the area, which is believed to be oil-and-gas rich. Canadian maps show the treaty boundary, while American ones show a mid-channel boundary titled "Exclusive Economic Zone Boundary" with drilling leases in place, and on several occasions US Coast Guard and other official American vessels have, in violation of the treaty, allegedly arrested and impounded Canadian fishing vessels and other craft in the disputed waters. The line stipulated in the treaty is known as the A-B Line, being drawn from Points A and B (Cape Muzon at the southern tip of Dall Island, to the west of Prince of Wales Island to one of the Proctor Islands, at the opening of Tongass Passage. It remains an unresolved issue between the Canadian and American governments. The Canadian side believes the Hay-Herbert Treaty resolved the matter, whereas the American side believes it is still an open issue.
...but I doubt most people familiar with the boundary and its history would claim that this dispute does not exist.  The US violated the treaty, period.  That it might not be possible to find a Canadian diplomat or interntaional jurist to ffer a legal/diplomatic opninion is irrelevant.  The sentences following the quoted section about the Portland Canal are why the particulars of the treaty in that area were among the thorniest of the dispute; the US wanted to block off Canadian access to known mineral resources and also one of the few routes from the Coast to teh Interior north of the Nass.  Whatever; I don't have time to look this material up and it's unlikely to be in libraries in Halifax, where I am now.....I would have appreciated Van Helsing's vampire-hunting a bit more if he'd done some legwork BEFORE "enforcing" the unrefernced tag; i.e. had gone looking for refs/reasons why those cmoments were there.  The A-B Line dispute is not going to go away simply because an uninformed Wikipedia editor didnt' like the look of its story.Skookum1 (talk) 12:53, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: US violation: Dixon Entrance

message: I didn't think to look up Alexander Begg online before, though I'd seen his tome in the old bookstore/library shelves for years alongside Howay and Reid and Bancroft and Ormsby et al.....so I was delighted to find a selection of his writing, mostly concerning the North-West Territory and the Metis Rebellions, plus his one big opus on a general history of BC to date; but among thetm I found this:
:*Report relative to the Alaska Boundary Question, submitted to the Hon. J.H. Turner, Minister of Finance etc. etc. (sic), 15 August, 1896., Alexander Begg, Victoria, British Columbia: R. Wolfenden, 1896
Which turns out to be chockful of useful detail, even in its preface/introduction.  The appendices or "annexusres" as he styles them include newspaper editorials, diplomatic papers (from both sides), treaty materials, discussion of Russo-Briitsh relations and intent, and lots more; in the intro there's tidbits of clues as to where else to look - the Canadian Hansard July 4, 1895 - he quotes from a speech by a BC Member of Parliament who he tactfully does not name (the Member made an ass of himself with bad history/geography of his home province, something we usual slag Easterners for) but who can be found out from Hansard of course, but it seems that US relations were debated on that day, and there may be other debates and speeches quotable here, to match the US-content bulk of the article....if only the Oregon Treaty had been treated in such a thorough fashion by him or another, alas no....there are also comemnts in his intro about the equanimity of Canadian and British press towards the debate, vs the outright hostility towards the British of American editorials.  Begg was commissioned to write this for the Candian Ministry of Finance at the time, apparently also responsible for the dispute (maybe no Foreign Minister at the time...that would have been a job still for Westminster before Canadians took over diplomatic matters with the Statutes of WEstminter much later).  Even the intro's an eye-opener, but the resources look fascinating....the intro has too much for me to try to condenses into a section; hopefully y'all will have a read and find places to add bits into the article; I'm very curious about what the article says about Clarence Strait and Portland Channel vs. Portland Canal now....have a read!Skookum1 (talk) 03:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Chapter XX of Begg's history of BC is entitled "Fur Sealing and the Alaska Dispute".  Also looks promising....History of British Columbia from its earliest discovery to the present time is the page for the book's TOC and there may be other chapters of interest to other articles/Wikipedians there....enjoy.Skookum1 (talk) 04:01, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "BCPOV" resource at last

message: The holdings list looks interesting - here but only some is available online; thosse first listings look to be the official Canadian position (NB. distinct from London's and Victoria's).  Posting this here in case any eager beaver or legal eagle out there has the resources to order copies.....Skookum1 (talk) 16:01, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you post that other map for me so I can see it - do you have an ftp space maybe?  Presumably non-wikiable.  I looked to see what BC Archives has but nothing online, although the summary of some is interesting to read (the secret corresopndence from the Colonial Office item, for instance.  I'll keep looking, and try to decipher Begg's geography when I get a chance; there's a passage in Howay which I might plunk wholesale into the article.....Skookum1 (talk) 02:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Canadian Nat'l Archives resources

message: There are other passages in Begg's books, including news articles and editorials from various papers, which talk about such incidents; in teh paragraph cited (at the top of that page) he alludes to the establishment of customs houses to intercept Britons en route to the Stikine Territory (British) at Tongas and Mary Islands, and the references to "Skaguay" [sic] and Porcupine are in ref to the imposition of US authority over Britons in areas already claimed/presume to be part of BC (and British, i.e. HBC, since 1825...), although in the Porcupine's case he's talking about he Battle of the Porcupine above.  Actual dispossession or intimidation fo British /Canadian settlers on the mainland/islands east of the proper Portland Channel (Clarence Strait) is also an issue elsewhere in Begg, and also in other tidbits I've seen here and there; likewise the establishment of canneries drawing on resources that should have been run by British interests is in teh same ffect of "disallowing property", or rather pre-empting it; the conversion of Fort Stikine into a US military base, given that that island (Duke of York Island, now Etolin Island) was also perceived (by BC) as being part of British territory.  There's more in Begg overall that I just haven't had time to add to the article; a bit too complex to condense; and the Anglo-Russian Treaty of 1825 has many aspects that have to be written up, and the Ukase of 1821 (and the Ukase of 1799) to even begin putting forward the British Columbian position and BC's frustration with latter-era re-interpretations/distortions of the 1825 treaty; another reassignment of treaty geography was t he shift of the start-point from Cape Chacon to Cape Muzon, without which Begg says BC should have had Dall Island (among others).  "There are claims that....etc" is rather a POV wording, given that American authority in the disputed area was imposed by a combination of occupation by armed forces and mass immigration by squatters", as the BC government styled them.  the Victoria Colonist article cited by Begg in one of the books insinuates - without doing so - that the transference of the meaning of Portland Channel to Portland Canal, and the confusion of the two names, was done only upon the American purchase of the Russian claims; he also points out a key clause missing in the deed of sale that was present in the Treaty of 1825.  And taht's just for starters........from a BC point of view, this was a land grab worse than that of the Oregon Territory and similar to the seizure of California and Hawaii...This article can not be put forward for Featured ARticle or Good Article status until all this is included, and more (similarly with the Oregon boundary article, and the San Juan...).  It's important for all this to be here; howevermuch inconvenient to today's political realities/predilections.  Ottawa still doesn't care, Victoria's long learned not to......Skookum1 (talk) 05:38, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Harrassment of Canadians/ British subjects cite

message: I just found a passage in Begg which talks about that line, as appearing without explanation in an extensive article in the Edinburgh Review; he seems surprised by its emergence; it seems to hvae been attempt to make sense of the terms of the treaty specifying a mainland land-fall of the boundary at the 56th Parallel while still mollifying the Ameircan claims to the Portland Canal.....complicated, you'd have to read Begg to get it all; but he, again, doesn't understand why the line was published as it wasn't the British position, eiether ass defined by Bagot and Canning in 1824-25 or in the later capitulations to American reinterpretations....it's only, it seems, that one map.  His comments about CPR and Dominion maps are extensive, but you'll hve to read the whole thing to find all of them.....Skookum1 (talk) 05:47, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: That red line

message: Hi; anyone interested in background might want to read this and browse the document linked/ref'd there.Skookum1 (talk) 23:30, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Info on HBC lease 1839

message: See Talk:Atlin District and follow the storyline indicated by the New York Times headlines assembled there; I'll be adding a section to this article on 'disputed areas" and/or "scenes of conflict" or some such; early on the NYT referred to Atlin and its region as part of BC; by 1900 it was saying "Atlin, Alaska"...this, the Bennett Lake area, Porcupine River/Lower Stikine and Salmon River/Bear River were all nexes of the dispute on-the-ground; somewhere also Pyramid Harbour, one of the "Yukon Ports" is specifically mentioned, also....Skookum1 (talk) 04:00, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL if an article on it exists, I gather it woudl now be written in American spelling - Pyramid Harbor - wouldn't it?Skookum1 (talk) 04:00, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "Atlin, Alaska"

message: Just thought I would point out that there may be a problem with the article's title. This article primarly talks about the 1821-1903 boundary dispute between Canada and the United States. But there have been more recent boundary disputes since this one began. A notable and ongoing example is the Dixon Entrance boundary between the Alaska Panhandle and the Queen Charlotte Islands. This can also be considered an Alaska boundary dispute. Thus, the current title is conflicting between these two boundary disputes. I suggest this article should be renamed to flow with the 1821-1903 dispute. Also, the article currently states that the 1821-1903 boundary dispute was a territorial dispute between the United States and Canada (then a British Dominion with its foreign affairs controlled from London), and at a subnational level between District of Alaska on the U.S. side and British Columbia on the Canadian side. From looking at the map, the southwesternmost portion of Yukon was associated with the dispute as well but it does not mention anything about it. It would be nice if these issues could be solved. BT (talk) 22:10, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In 1821, neither Canada nor the United States was involved (the 1825 treaty was between the Russian and British empires).  Anyway, this was the big one -- the other territorial controversies are pretty much minor touch-ups to the 1903 settlement... AnonMoos (talk) 08:54, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I know that. There is also a dispute at the Beaufort Sea, which seems to be larger. BT (talk) 23:05, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yukon was directly under the administration of the federal government, no provincial type regime was involved; and British Columbia even as a province was largely excluded from the debate; much to its chagrin.  As for comments on specific areas of the dispute, this is a subject for expansion of this article, which mostly deals with US politics about the debate at this point, and little in the way of the British equivalent or British POV; I've tried to address that but seem to always get caught up in Wikipedia having to put out fires to do with changes of terminology for categories and titles, etc. and other wonderfully useful things that ge3t in teh way of actual content enhancement.  As for your issue that the Dixon Entrance and Beaufort Sea disputes should be part of this title, no, the "most common use" of the name "Alaska Boundary Dispute" refers to the essential dispute that ran 1825-1903; American and Canadian journalistic sources tend to refer only to 1891-1903 but as you can read in the link in the next section even the US-CAnada dispute, which succeeded the ongoing British-Russian one, extends right back to the 1870s, relating to US efforts to violate the provisions of the 1825 treaty in order to block British access to British territory inland, and profit from the resulting trans-shipment trade.  The Dixon Entrance dispute plays into an eventual article on the Salmon War of the 1990s, which also had to do with an old American grievance/ambition that the Inside Passage should be an international waterway (except in their waters...only in ours).Skookum1 (talk) 18:36, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No need to rename it--historians from all countries call THIS episode the Alaska Boundary dispute, and they write books and articles about it under that title. (Proof: see bibliography items by  Carroll, ("Alaska Boundary Settlement"); Gibson, ("The Alaskan Boundary Dispute"); Munro, ("the Alaska Boundary Decision"); Penlington, ("The Alaska Boundary Dispute"); and The Canadian Encyclopedia: "Alaska Boundary Dispute".)  Rjensen (talk) 21:29, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Rename?

message: * British Columbia from the earliest times to the present, Vol 2, Chapter XXXI - Alaska Boundary Dispute, E.O.S. Scholefield & Frederic William Howay, S.J. Clarke Pub. Co., Vancouver, British Columbia, 1914
I've already included Begg's histories of the background to the dispute, but he is admittedly a POV source, having been hired by the British Columbia government to advance that province's position, namely being that shared by Trutch that the "Portland Channel" of the treaty is not the Portland Canal, but the Chatham Strait et al. and that the land boundary only began at 56-13, i.e. such that the mouth of the Stikine and all mainland south of it, and adjoining islands, was in fact in British territory.  Howay & Scholefield discuss this and detail the origins of that argument (Trutch seems to have been the first in the colonial era to mention it; Simpson had had to deal with it in 1834-1839 after the Russians similarly interfered in British access to the STikine).  The book linked here has details of teh various proposals and some of the hostile US resolutions towards the British, and material from it, once there's time to add it to this article, will help balance the focus on USPOV and US content here; I was hoping they would have some details on the disputes and violence in the Atlin District, on the STikine, and around Skagway, but no - though they do give details of teh harrassment of marine traffic and US measures to fortify/defend the area between the Stikine and Dixon Entrance; well worth a read.  It also details out the selection and composition of the tribunal and the US betrayal of the terms of reference of that tribunal to appoint non-partisan jurists (the US did exactly the opposite).Skookum1 (talk) 18:36, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Detailed source on British politics/position

message: RE this, there's a short passage in the chapter from Scholefield & Howay I just added, towards its end, you could use to cite that; I don't have the patience to read it again this morning (as i did "through" this morning over coffee).  Not sure that resentment context belongs in the lede though.....Skookum1 (talk) 21:21, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks for that citation, which I had not seen.  I think the lead is accurate, and I provided additional support with this addition: Historian F.W. Gibson concluded that Canadians vented their anger less upon the United States and "to a greater degree upon Great Britain for having offered such feeble resistance to American aggressiveness.  The circumstances surrounding the settlement of the dispute produced serious dissatisfaction with Canada's position in the British Empire." [Gibson (1943) at notes 60-61]. Rjensen (talk) 23:46, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Angry Canadians

message: According to chapter 5 of The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers by Paul Kennedy, this was one of several concessions that the U.K. offered to the U.S. (the others being on fisheries and the Panama Canal) as part of a general policy of reducing colonial frictions (including the Anglo-Japanese alliance of 1902), which cleared the decks for diplomatic action in Europe, ultimately leading to the U.K.-France "Entente Cordiale" of 1904... AnonMoos (talk) 16:44, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Broader geopolitical significance

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The line shown as the British position is incorrect; that was only a map come up with by the editor of the Edinburgh Review, based on his [confused] interpretation of the wording of the Anglo-Russian treaty that established Cape Muzon/54-40 as the latitudinal boundary, but "Clarence Channel" as being the northward marine boundary from there; the confusion arising from the mistaken use of the Portland Canal as the route of the boundary even though that's eastward from Cape Muzon.  The notes made by Bagot and Canning detail out what the wording actually meant, as this concluding summary in Begg's Review of the Alaska Boundary Question lays out, mentioning Etolin Island and more - indicating Clarence Strait as it's called today; although maps were very detailed, thanks to Captain Vancouver (who made claim over the whole archipelago all the way to Cross Sound and Icy Strait five years before Tsar Paul declared Russian America), what's Duke of York Island in those notes is I think Wrangell Island, for example.  
Where a line drawn northward along the 132nd line of longitude from Cape Muzon actually hits the mainland is shy of 56 degrees north and is located southeast of Etolin Island; this is the intersection of the 56th parallel and 132nd meridian.  So, a strict interpretation of the treaty without deviation was not observed; and no map published of the treaty's result and intent.... Begg was hired by the Turner government to assert BC's case, but 1898-1903 were years of political turmoil in British Columbia, and its case ignored and misunderstood by London and Ottawa - and misrepresented by the editor of the Edinburgh Review.  Britain's actual position more resembled today's boundary and went overland from Stewart up the divide of the Boundary Ranges to the Stikine, and originally included the Yukon Ports though they quickly yielded on that given American occupation of same.  The Review of the Alaska Boundary Question linked above includes discussions of the seizure of Wales and Pearse Islands and also the Porcupine River battles near Klukwan.... and details the story of Atlin, which for a while no one was sure if it was 60 leagues from the sea or not (it's not).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.55.69.14 (talk) 03:01, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Map needs amending