Talk:Maryland/North (Mid-Atlantic State) vs South (Southern State)

message: I'm so tired of this conversation every 3-4 months. Maryland is NOT Northern or Southern, it is BOTH! If you are from Maryland, you may not see it, but when you travel outside of Maryland, reality hits you. People who visit from the North always think I am so "southern sounding" and vice versa for people who travel from the South. Northerners call us country bamas and Southerners call us yankees...neither wants to claims us. I've lived in Baltimore my entire life and I just consider MD to be a Mid-Atlantic state below the Mason Dixon...we have influences from both places. Northerners and New Englanders would laugh at the little bit of snow we get from time to time (though the blizzards we get every 5-10 years puts some Northerners to shame) and Southerners would laugh at the hot summer days we get (though the East Coast tropical humidity we get puts some Southern states to shame). Again, we are a mix and should forever be known as a Mid-Atlantic State! I wish people stop debating this. By the way, Maryland as a whole has more Southern living than Northern, even Baltimore. Truth hurts, but hey, can't change who we are. To those disgusted that we dare utter our name with YOUR North or YOUR South, get over it. BUT Just call us an East Coast state or a Mid-Atlantic state and it should make everyone happy. Chic3z (talk) 15:06, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Two years later and comments are still appearing in my notifications...let's all re-read my 2 year old comment, it still stands. Maryland was a border state back in the day and still skirts the line between North and South today. Or as they say, we're up South and down North. Deal with it! Bottom line: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-03-28/news/bal-md.backstory28mar28_1_southern-region-mason-dixon-line-western-maryland/2 Chic3z (talk) 19:28, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not North, Not South, Mid-Atlantic Only! 

message: Well it seems that history has taken it's attempt to define Maryland as a Northern only state form the discussion page to the article it's self. The user has basically rehashed his point of view as stated above into the article, w/o hardly a source to back up any of his claims, most of which have little to no bearing in the Cultural Identity of the state or on it's regional classification. Besides the fact the the section now is grossly misleading in practically all contexts, historical, cultural, informative, and so on, it is an extremely narrow def in that it really only describes the Balt-Wash metro, and basically discounts, Western Maryland, Southern Maryland, and the Eastern Shore. To but is simply the section is little more then a rant due to the fact that the user cant get with the idea that census classified the state in the South Atlantic division for official statistical purposes, and in all regards should just be removed. But i'll leave it in and hope someone can sort threw the mess, for now. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 04:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well since the pov has yet to be delt with, and the section contines to be mostly unsourced, and that the current sources do not back up the claim of the rant, as it is not a section, i am giving the section untill Wed, and if not NPOV by then then i am removing back to the former version on the grounds of that it is POV, and the it violates WP:NOT --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 05:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: First off, "its", not "it's"; and my god the second comment is virtually incoherant. and blah blah hello i am a spelling grammar naziboy (self-vandalism - N ) - however. As a resident of Maryland, I have always felt that Maryland should be considered a "northern" state. Looking on a map, if one were to draw a line equidistant from the northern tip of Maine and the southern tip of Florida, Maryland would easily be in the north. While Virginia (along with the rest of what is commonly termed "the south") has a reputation for, shall we say, conservative politics, Maryland has been one of the more moderate states in the union (c.f. the Walmart decision, the anti-polygraph legislation, etc). While one finds a slightly more conservative, hick-ass (apologies, but I'm in a rush and can't think of a nice way to put it) attitude prevalant (sic?) along the eastern shoreboard, for the most part, even up in the mountains, Maryland is more a Boston than an Atlanta. I could go into architecture, landscapes, and a whole mess of et cetery to further support my viewpoint - which is, simply put, that it is hardly controversial to consider Maryland a part of the North, and frankly the only way a "southern" definition would stick is if we throw out everything except the Mason Dixon line - and then where exactly would that leave Los Angeles? If one is willing to consider California a "southern state" based on the Mason Dixon line, then that autistic insanity has won my, uh, respect. --Nugneant 09:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Finally, your elitist materialistic agenda comes out. You view the South as some poverty-stricken backwater that you are scared to acknowledge exists....is that because the other elitists in your Beltway neighborhood might think lesser of you? By the way, let's count the rural Maryland counties: Garrett, Allegany, Washington, Frederick, Carroll, Harford, Cecil, Kent, Queen Anne's, Caroline, Talbot, Dorchester, Somerset, Worcester, Wicomico, St. Mary's, Charles, and Calvert. 18! Agriculture is the number one sector of the economy in every single one FACT. I'll let you subtract one bedroom county just because I'm nice. Furthermore, Illinois is a Midwestern, not a Northeastern state. Has no bearing in this discussion. But let's talk about density. Tokyo and Mexico City have dense populations...by your logic that makes them Northeastern. Florida and Texas...both densely populated....Northern then? There is such a thing as a Southern city. You are using poor logic and I am calling you out on your semantics. WillC 20:21, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural Identity, POV and Unsourced 

message: I kindly urge all to document their edits; if not, you risk having your info removed. For starters, unless you have a formall poll showing that many Marylanders hate being called Southern, it has to go. Blanket statements such as the South has poor schools falls in the same category. New Wiki users should take a moment to read policies on good faith editing, non-point-of-view statements, and removing bias, etc.... WillC 00:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the north/south cultural conflict section of the article needs to be better sourced.  On the other hand, it's important to include a discussion of Maryland's cultural identity.  Of course Wikipedia's NPOV policy needs to be followed throughout, but there is truth to the statement that many Marylanders resent being called Southern.  There is also truth to the statement that some people in Maryland consider their state a part of the South.  What the article needs is a neutral, sourced discussion of the views of Marylanders, but it would be a disservice to the article and to Wikipedia as a whole to exclude a discussion of the issue.  When I get the chance (hopefully in the next few days) I will make an attempt to find sources for an NPOV discussion of Maryland's cultural identity. NoIdeaNick 17:36, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You have no definite proof that any Marylander resents being grouped as Southern. WillC 20:08, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have lived in Maryland my whole life and I can tell you there are plenty of Marylanders who resent being called Southern.  But you don't have to take my word for it.  That's why Wikipedia has verifability and   NPOV policies.  Considering how commonly (in my experience) Marylanders consider themselves non-Southern, I'm sure it has been written about.  When I get a chance, I will hunt down some of these writings and write an NPOV section for the article.  The question of whether Maryland is truly part of the South culturally is beside the point.  All that matters is having an NPOV discussion of those views. NoIdeaNick 20:18, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I'm a Marylander, who got into vicious arguments with a Bostontonian with the same POV "commonly shared" (Maryland = the south because Mason Dixon hurr hurr). Basically I believe that defining it as the Mason Dixon line is ridiculously arbitrary and (in the friend's case) only an excuse to belittle others. You know what else is south of the Mason Dixon? Most of California. Is California going to be a "southern" state? Here I always thought "south" would be a relative term, you know, like if you took a point on northern Maine, a point on central Florida, and drew a line equidistant to both - but I guess I'm a product of superior education, and have a lot to learn from isolated hicks. Hey, since we're all south of Santa Claus, we're all Southern States. --Nugneant 10:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

text: And I know just as many people from Maryland who think of themselves as Southern, enjoy the Southern lifestyle, and KNOW THEY LIVE BELOW THE MASON DIXON LINE. So what is your point? WillC 20:39, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know a boy named Sue. It therefore follows that Sue is a boy's name. I know someone who likes being hit. Therefore all people like being hit. --Nugneant 10:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

text: My point is that any discussion of Maryland's cultural identity ought to mention both those who think of themselves as southern and those who don't.  The Mason-Dixon line is the traditional dividing line between the North and the South, but there are those who would question whether the Mason-Dixon line is any longer a legitimate cultural border.  I'm not saying it is and I'm not saying it isn't.  I'm just saying that it's a point of debate in Maryland, and that debate ought to be included in the article. NoIdeaNick 21:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree. But it needs to be even and as of now it is not. Say there is an argument and leave it at that. WillC 21:22, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, there's no surveys that state that a majority of respondants consider Assateague Island "the most noted feature of Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia", so I think that has to go as well. Not to mention that I have a friend from Russia who considers a Maryland summer unbearably hot and muggy, and Maryland winters pretty damn tropical. So can we see a poll that declares what "moderately cold" and "warm" mean? Also, finally, I have a business acquaintance on the Moon who believes that "significant" means, in fact, "of least importance" - and he enjoys this, and LIVES BELOW THE MASON DIXON LINE. So how about a poll confirming this? Thanks - --Nugneant 10:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do. WillC 21:43, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: But your "facts" are irrelevant. I will add 2 + 2 = 4 to the article and will condemn anyone who deletes it. It's a FACT! WillC 12:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: EXACTLY! WillC 17:38, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

text:  As usual, your citations aren't relevant. The official one is The Census. Maybe I'll make a map showing Alaska as a tropical state since it is stuck next to Hawaii in the corner of some maps. Regardless, I could find several other handpicked sites that put MD in the Southeast. If you understood how to play this game you would have given examples of both sides and we could have weighed in on their credibility here. You say I have an agenda? You just incriminated yourself....again. One more time....everyone else here is adding info that shows it is a border state with characteristics of both North and South. You want to make it Northern only and you have no leg to stand on. Admit to yourself that MD is peculiar and be done with this. WillC 19:45, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Your last post violates Wikipedia policy on namecalling and civility. Furthermore, I'm not the only one to revert your misleading sources...for the last several days people have been weighing in and siding with my NPOV statements on thr main article...ironically, people you tried to recruit to edit against me! Lastly, if there is anyone complaining -- and loudly -- it is you. For the last time, READ THE POLICIES OF WIKIPEDIA. WillC 20:33, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: SOURCING

message: I have watched this discussion for a few days now.  I agree with Kmusser that Maryland is "Mid-atlantic" - that's neither exclusively "northern" or "southern".  "mid" connotes some of both.  In context of Wikipedia, we need to comply with WP:V and WP:CITE.  
* The portion of the culture section that discusses "Maryland's weather and geography" is uncited.  "Moderately Southern climate" - moderately is a subjective term.
* I also see that some consider the fact that "Maryland is a blue state, politically, that makes it a northern state".  Please keep in mind that the state is not homogenous.  In 2004, the DC and close-in Baltimore areas (Prince George's, Montgomery, Charles, Howard, and Baltimore (city and county)) voted in majority for Kerry , but in all the other counties, the majority voted for Bush.  This is in part due to the "rural vs. urban" debate, as well as "northern vs. southern".  Given that Maryland is not homogenous, I don't think that blanket statements about Maryland's politics are appropriate.
* And the last portion "People who consider Maryland to be a Southern state ..." is completely uncited. "traditional Southern culture and occupations are commonly observed..."?  Do you actually have figures on employment in particular sections of the state?  I was just poking around the Maryland labor statistics website  and don't find anything that really substantiates "southern occupations". 
* And the reason stated for Baltimore as a southern city (commonly booked city for World Championship Wrestling and hosted multiple pay-per-views for the Georgia based promotion.) is inadequate.
Finally, I'll point to a paper by Wilbur Zelinsky, a cultural geographer, .  There's a map on page 14 that shows regions.  He has Maryland as partially "Middle Atlantic" and partially "No regional affiliation".  So, if anything, the article should describe Maryland as "a mid-atlantic state, with some northern and southern cultural influences." But, I would also support deleting the section entirely; as it's written now, it's poorly cited with weak arguments. -Aude (talk | contribs) 00:53, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  I think a single sentence, such as the one you suggest, would do just fine in terms of the needs of the article. NoIdeaNick 06:48, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The very first paragraph says just that, which is the point we have been trying to prove all along. WillC 10:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I support the deletion of the Cultural Identity section entirely.  The article could use a section on Maryland culture, but what's there now isn't even talking about culture.  Kmusser 14:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, scrap the current form, an write a section that has to do with the culture of Maryland and it's people rather then the current attempt to pigon holw it into either a northen or souther state, their is a lot that is beeing glossed over in the current format, that does no service for the state or a service in describing the cuture of it's residents. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 03:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The section is gone now. As is, what the introduction says about Maryland's (northern/southern) identity suffices.  -Aude (talk | contribs) 03:53, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah i dont have a problem with that , as it is correct. For statistical purposes census lists the state in the South Atlantic divinon which is part of the souther region, will put source on the intro, while it is also considered Mid-Atlantic, i.e. it is in the Mid Atlantic Milk Marketing Assn. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 04:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well nevermmind then some one replcaed what i had put their in the first place with a generic def, the source for the geo def for censn is here. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 04:37, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Verifiability

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BaltimoreSnowstorm.jpg A Southern state if ever I saw one.
::: So by your logic, it is impossible to snow in the South. Would you be willing to wager on that? WillC 10:32, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: It's South Alright...

message: This is where most of the soldiers who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan have come from:
[]
That's right, you cowards. They're all Blue, and all Northeastern.
:That map is pretty much a population density map.  Are LA, Houston, and Chicago also northeatern then?-Jeff (talk) 02:57, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: True Moral Values

message: MY Opinion:
     I clearly belive that Maryland/Virginia are southern states!
Many People object to the idea of Virginia and Maryland being southern. 
Im from Maryland so I know. I hate it when people that don't know me come in my face with all that "yankee" crap...i aint no yankee...im myself! And I absolutly HATE when people say that VA an MD are rude, inconciterate, uneducated, boring, bad drivers. Im fun, nice, and filled with GREAT hospitality.
Next Subject: Civil war/M&D line.
     If everyone knows that MD and VA are BELOW the Mason Dixon Line... why do some people feel the need to say that MD and VA are Northern????
It's quite -how can i say- IDIOTIC!
Yes, folks, I know that the MDL was not made to divide the north and the south, but It's pretty usefull to divide the two. Doncha think???...About the civil war...VA was apart of the confeds...i can't lie, BUT MD was FORSED to become apart of the union and most of the people wanted to be with the feds.(yuddah im sayin)...So anyways, like i was sayin, VA & MD are natrually South.
Subject 3: MD.
     Everyone knows that MD is not like the rest of the southern states-no accent(mostly), not many confed. flags, has northern-like cities, bad traffic etc.- but it is still SOUTHERN.
I mean dang,  like many other southern states, we take pride in are lil southerness, we sometimes act a lil country, and we still TALK diffrent from the north...esspecially Dc/B-more area. CUT US SOME SLACK!
Final Subject: Overall.
     Over all, Maryland and Virginia are southern!
They have many southern charms too. Infact, we have great hospitaliy too!
Don't worry, be happy. Even if your mad, you HAVE TO admit that maryland and virginia are atleast a TAD BIT southern.
YEs, YEs, YEs, we do have many qualities like the north(aka bad traffic...lol), But you must admit(if youve been too maryland and virginia...NOT B-MORE or DC)that it is southern in some areas!
ps. dont post nasty negitive comments about Virginia or Maryland..okedoke allipokey...lolz
ps no 2. IF you ask a man at a gas station in Southern, MD.... you'll know that chu in the south.
- Footballchik — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.98.52 (talk) 02:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My opinion 

message: Living "south of the line" for all my life, i take pride in my dixie self. I AM SOUTHERN LADY FROM MARYLAND, like it or not, i AM southern. I talk with an accent and im used to braidin' my daughters hair on the porch! I love cookin' fried chicken, maccaroni, and creole favorites! I love showing great hospitality and a great accent. and i Am from the MD. Just because Maryland is very advanced in areas such as baltimore and DC, doesn't make us northern. Im about as southern as a broke back lady from mississippi! haahaha. i also have GREAT humor!
My point is, we're south of the line. GET USED TO IT.
---Southern Sexy Lady--- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.215.166.216 (talk) 05:51, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maryland is just about as southern as Georgia. Like them, we have same style buildings, great black colleges, good hospitality, humid summer weather, great bar-b-q's, and an AWSOME ACCENT(well atleast where im from)Yall folk always sayin we northern, like its our hobbie. I ISNT northern. Im a southern person and i have always been one. And plus, Baltimo' is just like Atlanta,  just like a nother city--right? But does that make Maryland and Georgia "yankee" states...umm no. Trust me, we are south. Come down he'r and us marylanders will SHOW it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.215.166.216 (talk) 06:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i go with Southern Sexy Lady. I've been livin in maryland all my life and i am convinced that it is southern with a northern charm(like John F Kennedy once said) My South Carolinan boyfriend thinks so too. I classify myself as Southern, with a nothern charm. If you go a little west, east, or south(not north) of DC, you can tell you are in the south alright. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.215.166.216 (talk) 03:24, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  South and North 

message: I think it is time to start to narrow down this debate to the specific issue and start presenting scholarly, peer reviewed work to back up our claims.  I think the specific issue is whether the main article should say 1. Maryland (IPA: [ˈmæ.ɹɪ.lənd]) is a Mid-Atlantic state located on the East Coast of the United States2.Maryland (IPA: [ˈmæ.ɹɪ.lənd]) is a Southern state located on the East Coast of the United States.3.Maryland (IPA: [ˈmæ.ɹɪ.lənd]) is a Mid-Atlantic / Southern state located on the East Coast of the United States.I will refer to these proposals as #1, #2, and #3.  What everyone should do is to find published evidence to support their opinion and post that evidence for discussion on this page.  I think we have gone as far as we can go with ancedotal and personal opinions about what should be listed in the article.Lasersnake 17:31, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Options 4 & 5 (I favor 4) should certainly be included in order to best characterize the state..... 4. Maryland is a Mid-Atlantic state located on the East Coast of the United States that is at times classified as a Southern state5. Maryland is a Southern state located on the East Coast of the United States that is at times classified as a Mid-Atlantic state. /  The encyclopedic goal should be to classify all 50 states within a single region (no "slashes") representing the most common view, while presenting significant minority opinions.  That's option 4.  See Reed study below. DLinth 19:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ideas for Debate

message: As a Southerner, I find it pretty ridiculous that Maryland is included in our region. They really have nothing in common with us, not only from a cultural but also from a geographical standpoint. It really is an insult to our heritage that a state whose history, values, politics, and contemporary popular perusasions are so markedly dissimilar to our own is somehow defined as part of Dixie.
That being said, I'm sure the Marylanders (who clearly view themselves as Northern) aren't too thrilled to be told, that, cotrary to what they've surely believed their entire lives, they're actually residents of the South. 
The South ends, effectively, at the Potomac River. It really is very upsetting to me that Wikipedia doesn't reflect that reality.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.171.0.148 (talk) 05:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.72.81.251.2 (talk) 22:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Not a Southern State

message: I think it's a bit rich that we're defining Maryland as "Southern" on this page. That to me seems to be a fairly radical reworking of the demographics, economics, politics, and geography of the region, particularly for an encyclopedia that says it is not a database for "original research." 
I for one actually am a Southerner and find this classification to be not only inaccurate but borderline insulting; Maryland shares very little in common with the rest of the South, and I speak from the perspective not of a Texan, Floridian, or South Carolinian, but rather as a Virginian. 
This really, really bothers me. From a cultural perspective (rates of church attendance, religious identification, household income, voting tendencies, music, cuisine, etc) it just doesn't make sense.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.217.137.29 (talk) 04:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.72.81.251.2 (talk) 22:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Introduction

message: Well.....I am a native Marylander from Allegany County and I find it insulting that we are being classified as "Mid-Atlantic". Especially when the US Census Bureau themselves classify Maryland as a Southern State. We share much more in common with Virginia, North Carolina, and Tennessee than we do with New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and New York. At least where I come from we do. I was raised Southern and have always believed I am Southern. Maryland has been a Southern colony/state since it joined the Union and always will be part of the Southland no matter what.
The biggest reason that ya'll from further south can say that we don't have anything in common with you is because of all the DAMN YANKEES that come down here and destroy our way of life. They come across the Mason-Dixon Line and think they own the place. We are occupying Iraq and Afghanistan right now.....does that make them part of America? No. It's the same deal with the yankees and Maryland. They have occupied this state but because people from New York bring their way of life to Maryland it doesn't make this state New York.
Go ahead and keep saying we ain't Southern. I know and the rest of us Southerners know what harm yankees do when they invade your homeland. I find it pretty weak and cowardly that you abandon a sister Southern state because she's been invaded. Instead of supporting us you just act like we're a bunch of yankees too. It's a matter of time before the yankees come to your town in Virginia and change it and people don't regard you as being Southern anymore. Then will come the Carolinas, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, and the rest of the South will be changed. There's only one way we're gonna fight yankees changing our homeland into a mega-mall and that's if we stick together as Southerners. Quit backing down and cowardly abandoning your fellow Southrons and stand up against change.USMarineCorps1989 (talk) 07:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Maryland is a Southern State

message: For one, I'm quite ticked off that Maryland is "locked" as a Mid-Atlantic state. We haven't come to an official conclusion yet. What I reckon would be the fair thing to do here, which doesn't seem likely (note Maryland being "locked" as a Mid-Atlantic state), is list Maryland as an East Coast state as NOBODY can deny that.
I follow the link to the "Mid-Atlantic region" and oddly enough I see Maryland is striped along with Virginia and West Virginia. Same as the Southern region page but for some reason Maryland doesn't get listed as being a Southern state.
The way I see it you've got two options.
1.) Make Maryland's first sentence say something along the lines of "Maryland is a state located on the East Coast." That is the absolute truth and nobody can deny it.
2.) Do what it seems almost everybody else does, except us, and follow US Census Bureau classifications. Again that is the absolute truth and cannot be denied. Folks will say "Well such and such lists Maryland as a Northern/Mid-Atlantic state" but most of the other state pages on Wikipedia aren't using those other sites. Most go by their Census Bureau classification.
Whatever you do Admin please make it truthful and factual. Heck, the doggone citations for Mid-Atlantic state (7 and 8) say loud clear what Maryland is known as a Southern state. -68.236.253.181 (talk) 19:55, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is Maryland listed as a Mid-Atlantic State?

message: Stop arguing over whether or not you are Southern.  All Americans are Southern.  I am Canadian.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.171.52.166 (talk) 00:19, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  To we Canadians, All Americans are southern 

message: I disagree with the exclusion of southern Prince Georges County out of the area considered to be Southern Maryland.  There are a few clues that provides insight to why southern Prince Georges County are apart of Southern Maryland.  First is Southern Maryland Hospital Center; it is located right off of Branch Avenue (Route 5) in Clinton, Maryland, which is southern PG County.  Additionally, Pennsylvania Avenue (Route 4) is called Southern Maryland Boulevard in the PG County side of it, however once you enter Calvert County, following the merge with Route 2, the name changes to Solomons Island Road, again leading one to believe that it is called Southern Maryland Boulevard because it runs through Southern Maryland.  The most prominent evidence supporting my claim is that in classifying the Legislative Districts for Southern Maryland between 1992-2000, the Maryland General Assembly classified Southern Maryland to include District 27A in Southern Maryland, which is southern Prince George's County (http://www.msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/07leg/map/html/southm.html).  Even in the legislative districting for 2002-2010, District 27A is again included in Southern Maryland (http://www.mdp.state.md.us/redistrict/2002ld_courtappeals_62102_MD_map_web.pdf).  This time 27A has a piece of northern Calvert County in its jurisdiction, meaning that again, southern Prince George's County is apart of Southern Maryland.
What do you guys think? Brightwell (talk) 04:19, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Couldn't agree more...."regions" often don't follow political boundaries, and southern PG (and southern A.A.) residents definitely consider themselves in "S. Md.".....as a professional geographer and student of MD geography for 35 years, I've always considered anything outside the Beltway and south of Central Ave. (the quite straight road that heads due east in line with the E. tip of DC) to be S. MD.  But that's not "official" and I don't believe you'll find an "official" description.  So despite that Brightwell has his Rt. 4 data backwards above(Rt. 4 in S. PG is called PA Ave. 100%; in S. AA and N. Calvert it's "S. MD Blvd.") I agree with the conclusions. DLinth (talk) 14:13, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classification of Southern Maryland 

message: Ladies and gentlemen, the culture is before your very eyes.  Old Bay seasoning is a Maryland staple, and it isn't seen anywhere above the MDL, but is known in the South.  The state song "Maryland, My Maryland" is a song attacking Lincoln for his arresting of Confederate Maryland legislators preventing Maryland from seceding.  The Maryland flag is actually a combination of 2 flags, one the original pre-Civil War Maryland flag (the flag of the Calverts, proprietors of the colony) and the other the Crossland flag.  Why is that significant?  This flag was used by Marylanders loyal to the Confederacy.  (Mississippi's flag having the Battle Flag in its design, but Maryland blatantly has 2 instances of one in its flag, but Mississippi takes all of the crap for having .)
Jim Crow laws were rampant in the state, even up until the late 1960s, when Maryland was one of 17 states that outlawed interracial marriages in 1967, the same year the groundbreaking film "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" came out.  Wanna guess the other 16?  I'll give you a hint: All of them were Southern states.  Maryland is smaller compared to most states.  What does this have to do with anything?  Well, in urban areas, the people there vote usually for liberal, while the rural tend to lean more conservatively.  Considering that Maryland has not one, but TWO metropolitan areas within the state, what were you going to expect?  The loss of accent can be explained as simply as this: Northern transplants in combination with the urban culture.  I grew up in Southern Prince George's County (DC suburb), and I have a Southern accent.   Many of the kids I grew up with who made claims of Maryland being Northern came from families that were from the North themselves.  My family (a black one at that) had been in Washington, D.C. over 150 years before I was born (1991-you do the math)...my father tells me stories of the segregation he faced as a young kid growing up in the 60s and early 70s.    
I, a black Marylander, conclude that Maryland, is a Southern state.  Anyone who disagrees should see the Mason-Dixon line and the U.S. Census Bureau.66.83.115.178 (talk) 20:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Maryland is Southern

message: I have lived in Montgomery County, MD my entire life, and it has much more common with New England or New York than even nearby Virginia. The fact is the areas where the vast majority of Marylanders live is culturally, economically, and politically as northern as New England. The nearly unpopulated (Maryland's Dakotas) Eastern Shore, however, is drastically unlike the rest of the state in that it has as much northern influence as Alabama. There the old south reign supreme, which is why it is not industrial, mainly agricultural; it votes tea party while the rest of the state votes for proggressive democrats, and is the only place you will find people with confederate bumper stickers and flags. Baltimore is in essense a northern city, like Cleveland or Pittsburg, while Montgomery, PG, ect. are like northern suburbs anywhere in the north east.
As for the unfortunate legacies of the Civil War with lines in the state song such as "northern scum" and Confederate monuments in Rockville, everyone outside the Eastern shore is ashamed of those unforunate legacies. So although historically a case could be made for Maryland being southern, in the modern era it is northern.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel.villar7 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It is worth mentioning that during a visit to my brother, who lived in D.C. at that time, we took two day trips: (1) to Rehoboth Beach Delaware driving through a good part of Maryland's eastern shore, and (2) to Charlottesville, VA.  It is quite notable, culturally speaking, that we observed 0 Confederate Flags in MD, even along the eastern shore, however, shortly after exiting the D.C. metro area - as soon as 10 minutes outside of the Capital Beltway, and the VA countryside was one rebel flag after another. For what it's worth, this distinction speaks for itself.76.28.116.130 (talk) 02:28, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really think it's worth mentioning unless you live in Maryland or have visited multiple areas on separate trips. There are several counties in Maryland who are proud of their Southern upbringing and showcase it. Just because you didn't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's like me going to two different restaurants and one didn't serve beef, but the other did. Maybe I came during an off-hour or maybe I didn't see it on the menu...doesn't mean they don't sell it. The thing about MD is, many people complain when people rock confederate flags, but it is not illegal and still happens in the country-side/rural/mountain areas. Stuff happens everywhere, but you can't really base anything from a visit. Just because Baltimore City, Baltimore, Charles, Howard, PG and Montgomery Counties exist, it doesn't eliminate the 18 other counties, and the many people who pride themselves in Southern Living. Chic3z (talk) 19:59, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Daniel.villar7, so out of the 24 counties (Baltimore City included), 18 of them vote Republican and only 6 vote democratic almost on a yearly basis. In most of the Republican counties, either country living or mountain living is the norm. In most of the Democratic counties, industrialized city living is the norm. So despite the fact that the 6 Northern-influenced places have more population totals, in reality, most of Maryland is Southern-influenced. Just listen to the accent outside of your county...mind-boggling how different the culture is in other parts. Chic3z (talk) 19:59, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Apart from the Eastern Shore, Maryland is All Northern

message: When you look at the Baltimore–Washington Metropolitan Area and urban area where there are Populated places in Maryland with African American majority populations it is more Northern then Southern. Although sometimes the people there want to be from The South so bad it's crazy that it doesn't make any sense. Like back in the day like the 80's and 90's they were more like New York, New Jersey, and Philadelphia with a Northern Style and East Coast Style and you could not call them Southern this is a true story. Although back then it was more of a mixture you had some people from the Washington D.C. area trying to be like New York in the 80's and in the 90's and then wanted to be like The West Coast in the late 80's and the early 90's and mid 90's and then when The South got hot on the scene in the mid 90's. I am talking about Hip-Hop then the D.C. area wanted to be like The South and some act like they want to be from The South to this day. Now the Baltimore area back then was more like New York, Newark, New Jersey and Philadelphia until the mid 2000's they start acting funny like they wanted to be like Down South to and some of them act like that to this day. Also Maryland was not a Confederate State in The South. It was a Union State in The North along with others Northern states like New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and so on. The Mason–Dixon Line have nothing to do with either North or South. The Mason-Dixon line was actually over a property dispute between Pennsylvania and the state of Maryland. This happened nearly a whole hundred years before The Civil War broke out. In which Pennsylvania won. The whole dispute was over Maryland wanted Philadelphia and Pennsylvania wasn't having that at all. Now how the Mason-Dixon Line seperate The North and The South through four states in which is West Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Deleware? When the true seperation of The North and The South is the Parallel 36 30 north / Missouri Compromise. The only people whom feel as though they are Southern in the States of Deleware, Maryland, and Virgina is those who lives in Rural Areas better known as The Country. In which they are not really exposed to Urban Life better known as The City Life. And as far as Virginia is concerned in The Civil War times they was known as being a Southern State but really is part of The North also. The only reason that they said Virginia is a part of The South is because Virginia was a Confiderate State. Yes, Virginia has Southern tendencies to but in modern day times it is a Northern State compared to where the Parallel 36 30 north. Even in Virginia it has a Identity Crisis between knowing whether it's North or South. So with that being said Deleware, Maryland, Washighton D.C., and Virginia you are all Northeastern States. Meaning a Northern State that is also a East Coast State put it together it is a Northeastern State. Also meaning it gets the same weather as New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Deleware in which is all Northeastern States. Really at the end of the day Deleware, Maryland, Washighton D.C, and Virginia all have a Identity Crisis whether knowing you are The North or The South and where you stand at. Everybody else do. I hope this helps clearify it better where you stand at. Because y'all are not Southern and people from Down South don't even acknowledge y'all as being Southern. They veiw y'all as Northerners. So Delaware, Maryland, Washington D.C. and Virginia you are The North. What I'am saying is Deleware, Maryland, Washighton D.C., and Virginia ya'll all have a Identity Crisis back then and now. Get off The South Dick. And Stop Dick Ridin The South. And in The South They Don't What Ya'll get off they Dick. Oh by the way this is more then Hip-Hop. Ya'll wanna be Southerners. Yeah Maryland had to get down or lay down shouts out to The North for holdin' It Down on the battlefield son. Northeast megalopolis, BosWash, Northeast Corridor, East Coast hip hop, Article by New York A.K.A. Nu Yawk NY. 14:11, 25 July 2012
So let me get this straight. You are basing your entire argument on hip-hop? I am an African-American raised in Fort Washington. Maryland is Southern. The Census Bureau even classifies it as Southern. I am going to deconstruct your argument right now.
"It was a Union State in the North along with others northern states like New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and so on. The Mason–Dixon Line have nothing to do with either North or the South" Yeah, because Lincoln forced them to be against their will. Midnight replacements because Lincoln knew that DC would be surrounded on all sides if Maryland seceded. The state song (to this day I might add) is about how Lincoln is a tyrant. The flag is actually a combination of the Union (Calvert - black and yellow) and Confederate (Crossland - red and white).
"The Mason-Dixon line was actually over a property dispute between Pennsylvania and the state of Maryland.This happened a whole hundred years before the Civil War broke out.In which Pennsylvania won. The whole dispute was over Maryland wanted Philadelphia and Pennsylvania wasn't having that at all. How the Mason-Dixon Line seperate the north and the south through three states in which is Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Deleware? When the true seperation of the south and north is the Parallel 36 30 north and Missouri Compromise." 1) Learn to spell. 2) This line was THE LINE. How did slaves on the Underground Railroad know that they were free? They were in Pennsylvania. They crossed the Mason-Dixon line.
"In which they are not really exposed to urban life better known as the city life. As far as Virginia is concerned in the Civil War times was known as being South but really is part of the North also. The only reason that they said Virginia is a part of the South is because Virginia was a Confiderate State. Yes, Virginia has southern tendencies but in modern times it is a Northern State compared to where the Parallel 36 30 north. Even in Virginia it has a identity crisis between knowing whether it's north or south. So that being said Deleware, Maryland, Washighton D.C., and Virginia are all northeastern states. Meaning a northern state that is also a east coast state put it together it is a northeastern state." You're kidding, right? Half the battles of the war took place in Virginia. In fact you know Arlington National Cemetery? That's Robert E. Lee's old plantation. They buried Union soldiers there as punishment for Lee fighting with Virginia and the South. Maryland also has southern tendencies. Have you been to Hagerstown, Port Tobacco, St. Mary's? You would think you're in the middle of Mississippi if someone dropped you there blindfolded.
"Also meaning it gets the same weather as New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Deleware in which is all northeastern states. Really at the end of the day Deleware, Maryland, Washighton D.C, and Virginia all have identity crisis whether you are north or south and where you stand at. Everybody else do. I hope this helps clearify it better where you stand at. You are not southern and people from down south don't even acknowledge you as being southern.They veiw you as northerners. So Maryland, Washington D.C. and Virginia you are the North." - Actually no. Maryland's climate zone aligns with the South as humid subtropical. The Northeast has a continental climate. And not all of them do. Maybe just the misinformed ones you know.
"Northeast megalopolis, BosWash, Northeast Corridor, East Coast hip hop" - You signed off with your "hashtags", huh.
This argument is so asinine it doesn't make sense. When you argue a point, please don't use a music genre that has developed over the past 40 years to talk about a 250+ year old state. By Fort Washington, Maryland A.K.A. Mississippi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.235.3.6 (talk) 19:08, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
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