Talk:Harry S. Truman/Archive 2

message: * i4CQuest: Admiral "William D. Leahy" "I Was There" (250+ Cites)
* Wikipedia: William Leahy "I Was There" (300+ Cites)
RJBurkhart 15:05, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autobiography: I Was There (Where cited) 

message: RJBurkhart 23:14, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re*Cycling RO/CS Lessons Learned 

message: Truman is in the :category:Knights Templar but there is not mention of that honor in the article. We should have some explanation and source for that fact. -Will Beback 19:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Knights Templar

message: During his life, Truman used the period consistently after the letter 'S' in his middle name. The argument from arctic gnome that it is contrary to Wikipedia's policy to use the period is without merit. Ulysses S. Grant was born Hiram Ulysses Grant and that name is not used above his photograph. Dwight D. Eisenhower was born David Dwight Eisenhower and that name is not used above his photograph. His presidential library, the Encyclopedia Britannica, and The Columbia Encyclopedia all use the period following the 'S'. It is clear that he wanted it following his name and that it was used in his proper title.
--MZMcBride 03:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand what arctic gnome means.  AG is not arguing that the period does or does not belong, AG is arguing that because S is his entire middle name, it is thus WP policy to not abbreviate it at the beginning of an article; S is his whole middle name, while S. is the abbreviation of his middle name.  It took me a while to wrap my mind around that.  AG is saying that Harry S. Truman as the opening of the intro would be the equivalent of Franklin Delano. Roosevelt or Dwight David. Eisenhower in those respective articles.  That's it.  --Easter Monkey 04:07, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What I'm trying to say is that it is my understanding that his full middle name is "S.". Some middle names (including my own) are just one letter with a period following, and that is the proper and full middle name. Unless there is evidence to support that his official middle name does not include the period (a birth certificate), it should remain in the article.
--MZMcBride 04:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know anyone with a single-letter middle name, so I'll take your word on that.  -arctic gnome 18:38, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Truman's middle name 

message: :Image:President Truman with Saud.jpg has just been added to the article. I question its relevancy and utility in the article. It doesn't show Truman's face, and the action depicted is a quite minor part of presidential duties (i.e., awarding medals to foreign dignitaries). -- Donald Albury(Talk) 13:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is new image needed? 

message: .... was recently nominated to be promoted to good article status, and has passed! Congratulations and keep up the great editting! Highway 20:57, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA 

message: In Missouri, President Truman is honored every year in Missouri by closing down the state government on his birthday. Perhaps someone would know which year this was first done. Joncnunn 16:24, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perhaps Truman Day in Missouri should be mentioned 

message: I'm pretty sure "reconversion" isn't a word, but correct me if I am wrong. Thanks. 
70.131.54.229 01:46, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Reconversion = 2 : conversion back to a previous state: as  b : change back to a previous complex of qualities  c : change (as of industry) from a wartime basis to a peacetime basis [Webster's 3rd Unabridged] Rjensen 01:58, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reconversion? 

message: For some time I have been working on revisions to the Bricker Amendment article.  I finally posted it and have a PR at Wikipedia:Peer review/Bricker Amendment/archive1.  I'd welcome comments.  I know all those references may seem extravagant, but I'm hoping to get it as an FA and those voters want lots of footnotes.  PedanticallySpeaking 16:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bricker Amendment

message: In the Assassination attempt section, the article states:
:On November 1, 1950, Puerto Rican nationalists Griselio Torresola and Oscar Collazo attempted to assassinate Truman at the Blair House. Collazo was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to death in 1952.
Wait a minute. You can't be convicted of murder if you didn't kill anyone. The article on Oscar Collazo says a police officer, Leslie Coffelt, was killed during the attack (something this article should probably mention), but then the Leslie Coffelt article says it was Griselio Torresola who killed him. So I can't see how the conviction of Collazo could have been for murder. Someone needs to check this (neither of the other articles mention the exact charge, that I noticed). - dcljr (talk) 11:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. In Florida (and probably in most other jurisdictions in the U.S.) it doesn't matter who kills a person during the commission of a felony, the person or persons committing the felony can be charged with murder. The 2005 Florida Statutes 782.04 Murder (3) This means that if someone defending himself or herself against a crime accidently kills an innocent bystander, the person or persons committing the crime can be charged with murder, even though they had nothing to do with the killing. -- Donald Albury(Talk) 13:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Right. The statement "You can't be convicted of murder if you didn't kill anyone" is not necessarily true. If you are part of a conspiracy to commit a felony, you're legally as guilty of murder as is the guy who pulled the trigger. Aside from the theoretical deterrent factor, that law could also give the authorities some flexibility with reluctant defendents, as in: "Testify against the triggerman, and we'll get you a lighter sentence." Wahkeenah 15:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Similar situation with Charles Manson. He himself committed no violent acts, but was part of the conspiracy to commit a series of felonies. Don't think it's stretching things to say that Manson was convicted of murder, is it? Or would we have to say that he was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder? The distinction didn't seem to trouble McCullough in writing about the Collazo case. BYT 16:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The technical difference could be that Manson obviously ordered the killings, whereas it's unclear (at least from the articles) who was in charge of the assassination attempt. I also wouldn't disagree that there was a revenge factor in sentencing him to death, along with the theoretical deterrence factor. Presumably Truman recognized that, and that's why he changed his sentence to life. Carter pardoned the guy, and it appears he was unrepentent after 29 years in the slammer, and that's why those who kill or attempt to kill the President should be kept on ice for life, in my opinion. Hinkley, for example, has no business walking the streets. It will be only a matter of time before he shoots someone else. Wahkeenah 16:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All lovely analysis... but I notice no one's actually changed that part of the article. It still doesn't even say who was killed... or that anyone was killed. I'd rather not try to make the changes myself since I don't have access to the sources you guys do. - dcljr (talk) 00:09, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's well-covered in the articles about the individuals. Maybe someone could check those articles out and clarify this one a bit. Wahkeenah 02:59, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Never mind, I did it. See if you find it a little clearer now. Wahkeenah 03:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. - dcljr (talk) 19:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Convicted of murder? 

message: All of the events discussed there take place before January 20, 1953... BYT 09:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should the 1952 Election section be moved to the section of the article devoted to his second term? 

message: I was under the impression that the "S." in Harry S. Truman stood for Spencer. In fact other languages on this very website state that.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman
:Then they are wrong. See #S. or S ?, #Harry S. Truman's middle name and #middle name (for the 1000th time) for discussions of the issues with his middle initial. -- Donald Albury(Talk) 18:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  S. 

message: Should we nominate this for Featured article status? What do people think? BYT 01:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hearing no objection, I nominated it . BYT 14:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article? 

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You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Rlevse 16:19, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Harry S. Truman]] Peer Review

message: The following edit I have removed from the Trivia section is a bit to much for me: 
:Likewise Truman and Eisenhower were the only World War I and World War II veterans as Presidents-although Truman as a Reserve Colonel was not on active duty in World War II because he was a Senator}.
I have a problem with saying someone who was not on active duty was a veteran of WWII. -- Donald Albury 20:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted your edit, because I thought the text made it clear what the situation was, but now I'm thinking that some rephrasing might be a better idea.  Truman was in the armed forces during WW2, which certainly makes him a veteran, but I guess it does sound a little odd to say he was a vet of WW2.--Birdmessenger 20:58, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WWII veteran? 

message: I've moved the whole Trivia section here because none of it is sourced. The section has been marked 'unsourced' for more than a month. Do not move any of it back to the article page with a source.
Trivia
*In 1949, President Truman appointed Georgia Neese Clark Treasurer of the United States. Since then, every subsequent Treasurer has been a woman.
* "Tell him to go to hell!" - Truman's first response to the messenger who told him that Franklin D. Roosevelt wanted him to be his running mate.
* Truman watched from a window as guards had a gunfight with two men trying to break in and kill him (November 1, 1950). One of the men was killed, the other was convicted of several crimes and sentenced to death, Truman commuted the sentence to life in prison. Jimmy Carter freed the man in 1979.
* Truman loved to play the piano. As Vice President, he was photographed playing an upright while the young Hollywood starlet Lauren Bacall was perched atop it provocatively (by 1945 standards). The controversial photo was the talk of the nation, and led some to conclude that Truman did not take the office of Vice President seriously.
* Truman was a great-nephew of John Tyler.
* Truman was left-handed, but his parents made him write with his right hand, in accordance with the custom for all students in American elementary schools at that time.
* Truman popularized the saying, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."  He had first heard this line in the 1930's from another Missouri politician, E.T. "Buck" Purcell.  
* Truman was named one of the 10 best-dressed senators.
* Truman was the first president to take office during wartime.
* Truman is the subject of a Mindless Self Indulgence song entitled "Harry Truman."
*Truman was the nephew of the outlaw Jim Crow Chiles who was suspected in nine murders. Chiles was killed in a shootout along with his twelve year old son in 1873.
*Truman was the first of only two World War I Veterans to become President {The other was Dwight D. Eisenhower. Likewise Truman and Eisenhower were the only World War I and World War II veterans as Presidents-although Truman as a Reserve Colonel was not on active duty in World War II because he was a Senator}.
-- Donald Albury 20:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia section 

message: The beginning looks like the work of pro-Truman court historians, as if there are not still plenty of people around today who consider him a horrible president who was soft on Communism.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shield2 (talk • contribs) 19:47, 20 September 2006.
:Seems fairly even-handed to me... if it is waivers from NPOV, it's not by much.  Care to offer a solution to the perceived issue?  --Reverend Loki 20:03, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: The whole article is a bio of Truman, that means minimal concern with issues he did not actually deal with (like renovating White House or demobilizing Army after ww2 or dealing with Vietnam). Some more attention to politics, which he did deal with, is probably called for.  The interesting stuff on army in Korea should go to the army article. Rjensen 17:29, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Rjensen: Your deletion of referenced and important facts dealing with the consequences of Truman's defense cutbacks in Korea (resulting in the deaths of Americans, I might add) is unjustified and uncalled-for.  It is a small paragraph and ESSENTIAL to understanding the initial debacle when U.S. forces deployed to Korea, as well as WHY Truman fired his Secretary of Defense only 3 months after South Korea was invaded (and in the middle of a WAR).  I realize that it will be considered negative POV by Truman defenders, but facts are facts...TIM 22 SEP 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.240.244.1 (talk) .
The argument for retaining is cogent--as long as it is factually stated.--Buckboard 09:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  this is biography of a person, not history of an era 

message: Maybe someone should edit the intro to show how much Truman's approval ratings seesawed during his presidency. He went from a high of 87 percent right after becoming president a low of 23 percent during the Korean War. -October 04 2006
:I am sorry I didn't see this, yes I agree it is important for people to know that a president with ultra low approval ratings could be viewed as a good president decades later.Mantion 01:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Approval Ratings