Template talk:Welcome/Archive 2

message: The list of pages is too long - no-one is ever going to read them all. The Picture tutorial, in particular, could be cut. Dan100 09:05, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
:Oh and the first line of 'Wikipedia:Topical index' says the page is obselete, which is kinda sucky. Dan100 09:07, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
:: The picture tutorial, or something like it (at least a link explaining that any images uploaded need to have source and copyright status clearly explained on the image page) IMO is one of the most important first things new ujsers should be made aware of. -- Infrogmation 02:41, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that the tutorial is important. Oleg Alexandrov 02:47, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture tutorial 

message: Why not tell our newcommers what Wikipedia is not?  This way they now what not to expect/include when editing.  Also lets say please write in the 3rd person.  This is what my welcolm message also includes:
* Please read what Wikipedia is not.
* Also, when editing articles on Wikipedia pelase write in the 3rd person.  You may write in 1st person on talk pages and Discussion about Wikipedia.
(unsigned comment by Michael180)
:: I don't have anything against this particular suggestion. But the number of links is already way too big I would say. Nobody bothers to read them all anyway. Oleg Alexandrov 03:35, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  And the second sentence is in the manual of style. No, there is no way to include in the welcome message all the wisdom users would need to be good citizens. The way to learn things is by editing. Oleg Alexandrov 03:39, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why not a link to WP:NOT? 

message: Can someone change the beginning to: "Hello,  ,  and..." instead of "Hello  , and... " to make it gramatically correct? Thanks! Flcelloguy | A  note? | Desk  22:18, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Grammatical Error

message: Is it just me? I am not quite happy with the recent changes to this page, that is, with "Hello pagename" and the exclamation sign at "Welcome to Wikipdia!" 
The "Hello pagename" looks not right since some people might not want to be addressed by thir user name, but rather by their first name. 
And I find the "!" kind of pathetic. I wonder, what people think of removing these two. Thanks. Oleg Alexandrov 23:50, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I just changed a period to the exclamation point, to emphasize the exciting-ness of Wikipedia. IMHO, I thought the "Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia." sounded monotonuously boring. However, I probably should have asked first before changing it to an exclamation point. Do you wish for me to rv me edit? As for the PAGENAME, I think some admins would prefer to keep that in (I didn't add it into the template). I would recommend asking them (check the history). Thanks! Flcelloguy | A  note? | Desk  23:56, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about recent changes 

message: I suggest we further simplify:
:By the way, please be sure to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name
to just:
:Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will produce your name and the date
The idea is to give new people the bare minimum they need to get started.  Knowing about multiple ways to sign isn't really core knowledge.  I also cut some fluff; By the way, please be sure doesn't add much other than volume.
--RoySmith 14:31, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree witht that. Oleg Alexandrov 15:38, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

text: I was coming to the talk page to suggest the exact same thing. Also, it makes it clear that four tildes should be the default. If no one objects to the suggestion, I can make the change. — Asbestos | Talk  (RFC) 18:45, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. — Asbestos | Talk  (RFC) 09:51, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  More simplifying 

message: I am happy that the commas are gone now, both before PAGENAME and afterwards. Hope it stays that way. Oleg Alexandrov 18:53, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have readded the commas; I believe that they are grammatically necessary, because you (the person who is welcoming a new user) is addressing the new user (the   ). Thus, the commas are needed to separate the addressee of the message from the main clause. I've gone ahead and added them back in, but please let me know if I'm wrong or if you disagree. Thanks a lot! Flcelloguy | A  note? | Desk 22:45, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

text: I don't care whether the commas or there or not, but I would just like to point out to Flcelloguy that punctuation has nothing to do with grammar. --Angr/ 07:03, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? Is punctuation part of style, then? Flcelloguy | A  note? | Desk  21:23, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agree with recent changes 

message: The (protected) template casually refers the newcomer to the help desk for any questions they may have.  However, I think this is a large reason for that desk getting factual questions unrelated to Wikipedia, which are better suited for the reference desk.  Instead of the current wording, I would prefer either of the below, with priority to the first.
#If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Ask a question.
#If you have any questions about Wikipedia, post at Wikipedia:Help desk.
::You can find out more about the concept of Wikipedia:Ask a question by looking at that page and its talk.  Please respond to this proposal whether you agree or not. Superm401 | Talk 03:28, September 13, 2005 (UTC)
::: Fine with me, but keep it short. :) Oleg Alexandrov 03:46, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. I'll make the change if no objections are voiced. — Asbestos | Talk  (RFC) 18:34, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help Desk 

message: :zh:Template:Welcome was added to the template. When used with the substitute option (:subst:welcome) the link appears. Hyacinth 00:12, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I just noticed that today, can someone edit it (needs an admin) - there really is no need to link it to the Chinese template is there? --TimPope 17:24, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. - UtherSRG (talk) 21:21, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: zh:Template:Welcome

message: I am afraid this template is again starting to slowly decay into a "everything you want to know about Wikipedia is written in here" kind of thing. No, you don't need to tell users that they can set up their preferences. There is a clearly seen link about it at the very top of the page if you are logged in. There are more important things users need to know. I suggest this remark about preferences be removed. Oleg Alexandrov 21:39, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disagree with addition of preferences 

message: The tildes in the template are being expanded into a full signature. --TimPope 10:22, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: To clarify, this occurs when subst is used with the template --TimPope 10:25, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  tildes 

message: I am rather unhappy with the wording "this will automatically produce your name and the date". The old "to produce your name and date" was shorter and more to the point. Of course it will happen automatically, how else would four tildas become the date, by magic? This works only for turning water into wine, and even that one not for everybody. Oleg Alexandrov 16:07, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I put it in there because I've seen countless posts after I welcome people that say things like "I don't get the tilde thing" or "but I want the sig to show my name [i.e. and not tildes]". I think the fact that what you type isn't always what you get isn't necessary clear to everyone first time around. — Asbestos | Talk  (RFC) 17:16, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, but how about shortening it, like "to automatically produce your name and the date"? Oleg Alexandrov 23:56, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Automatic thing

message: Can an admin change Wikipedia:Ask a question to Wikipedia:Where to ask a question? I can't do it and I don't want the link to be to a redirect indefinitely.  Thanks.  Superm401 | Talk 20:10, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction 

message: I really don't think one must say:
: Hi, Oleg, and welcome to Wikipedia. 
The comma after "Hi" does not look good there. Thanks to a kind soul who removed it. I would remove even the {pagename}. Nobody will be fooled by this fake personalization, and it looks downright silly with certain usernames. Oleg Alexandrov 04:43, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agree with comma removal 

message: Is there a reason why the second tilde in the code isn't a tilde, but actually encoded in unicode or something? --216.191.200.1 13:03, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Four ~'s get converted to a signature by wikipedia, as the template mentions. There are two ways around this, one is enclosing the sequence in <nowiki>'s, the other is making one of the ~'s not a plain ASCII ~. I'm not sure why the latter was chosen here though. --fvw<SMALL>*</SMALL> 13:39, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  That second tilde 

message: How about a refrence to the sandbox, see my welcome message, template:greeting
Prodego talk 14:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am against. Users see a link the sandbox each time they edit an article. Also, the primary aim should be to keep this welcome template short. There are a huge number of things a new user needs to know, but if you put all them here, the user will read none. This welcome template could still use some trimming. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 14:40, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sandbox 

message: Is there an alternative, with a descritpion of how to create an acocunt, for use with IP-address users? Andy Mabbett 16:39, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, we have  and  according to Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace. Thryduulf 13:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you.Andy Mabbett 14:45, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternative

message: I think it may help to include a link to Wikipedia:Annotated article in the welcome, before the tutorial, to give newcomers a better idea of how articles ought to be formatted.  The Future studies WikiRaid created a number of articles that subsequently needed cleanup work, which might have been mitigated somewhat if our instructions had been more clear.  ‣ᓛᖁ[ ᑐ] 13:42, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Annotated article 

message: I know the idea of linking the *the* sandbox has been repeatedly rejected.  But I would like to put a link to the user's sandbox (e.g. a subpage in userspace for each new user, initially a redlink would show).  This would encourage new user's start out some things in their sandbox, initially, before they're confident the article is ready (and not likely to be deleted as  or for another reason).  That way, if all somebody initially has is a single sentence, they can put that in their sandbox, and add to it later, moving it to article space when ready.  Also, for experimenting, a personal sandbox seems much better, as one user's experiments don't effect anybody elses.  I doubt many users realize they can have their own user subpages.  --Rob 04:43, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think one could use his/her user page as a place to make experiments. Yeah, I don't know about adding the link. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 22:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  User sandbox