Talk:Catholic guilt

message: Though I think it is not bad in itself to have such an article on WP that is striving to have a NPOV, the article is now stands needs to be completely revised. The concept and ideas, complete with references to specific accusations and understandings especially from lapsed Catholic authors, ex-priests and -nuns etc., need to be clearly laid out. On the other hand, the article also needs substantiated references to criticism of the concept of Catholic guilt, complete with a reference to the self-understanding of Catholicism itself that it helps people deal with real guilt rather than inculcates in them feelings of (unsubstantiated, it is suggested) guilt.
References to OCD would be okay, substantiated scientifically, as it has already been done. (There is a Catholic ministry called Scrupulous Anonymous which deals specifically with scrupulous people, many of them suffering from OCD or on the brink of it.)
References to specific actions and activities that are seen as sins by Catholicism (and most of Christianity), but not by mainstream Western culture, like abortion or homosexual activities, are completely unnecessary in such an article however. They are too narrowly culture-specific (80 years ago, most people in the Western world would have felt guilt about homosexual sex as well - not to speak of abortion) and are not really linked to Catholicism (what about the Evangelical Ted Haggard and his trysts?).
Overall, I think the idea of "Catholic guilt" needs to be linked specifically to the practice of Confession (and the scrutiny of conscience that goes with it), otherwise the whole article does not really make sense.
Lumendelumine 12:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Complete revision

message: I have changed the references back to include the category 'Roman Catholic Church' in place of 'Anti-Catholicism'. I take exception to the implication that this article has the kind of negative connotations suggested by the link to the 'anti' category. This article must be impartial to allow the collection of knowledge about a state of mind that is often spoken of, but little studied or discussed without the subject being subverted by those with strong beliefs in one direction or the other. Very few unbiased sources of information have been published on this subject so lets try and make a difference here. 
: How would that category exclude unbiased sources from this article, or make this article "impartial"? Gimmetrow 22:17, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not disputing the NPOVness of it. I am catholic and I think an article on Catholic guilt is as valid as an article on any other psychological issue. However, I'd like to call into question the relevance of the section on "benefits of catholic guilt", which essentially digresses into the health benefits of attending church. Yes, some people attend church out of guilt, but overall this section seems to have little to do with the main point. I am therefore moving it to the discussion page for now. It should really be a separate article, on the controversy of whether or not religious experience can affect health. There is some evidence that religious experience and the immune system are handled by the same part of the brain, which could explain some so-called miraculous cures, but the jury is still out as far as mainstream science, and myself, are concerned. --Bluejay Young 13:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Anti-Catholicism?

message: At the same time studies have been made to attempt to show a link between Catholic religious practices and mental health benefits.  
A large US study found that regular church attendees had lower blood pressure, less depression and anxiety, stronger immune systems and generally cost the health-care system less than people who were less involved in religion.
The study looked at 4,000 older individuals from North Carolina, and found that of the 1,177 who died during a six-year period, 22.9% were frequent church attendees, compared with 37.4% who attended infrequently.  Similar results were produced by the University of California at Berkeley in a study of some 5,000 people aged 21 to 65. Those who attended religious services at least once a week had a 23% lower risk of dying over the 28 years on which the research was based.  
Dr Harold Koenig, of Duke University Medical Center, said: 
<blockquotew> "Participating in religious services is associated with significant health benefits in elderly people, even when you take into account the fact the religious people tend to start out with better health practices and more social support.  In addition, lower levels of depression are known to have a wider health benefit.  Such positive feelings may counteract stress and convey health effects, like enhanced immune function, that go far beyond the prevention of depression and other negative emotions.</blockquote> 
Well, since Catholocism is nothing more than institutionalized insanity I hardly think they're qualified to discuss "mental health"  --Kelt65 20:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Benefits of Catholic Guilt? 

message: This I've done because of the sentence in the article that says: "At this time research that has been made into the relationship of Catholicism, guilt, and mental health remains in the realm of the pseudo-scientific due to its inability to establish forms of measurement, control groups, or basic postulates." That's why it seems to me that the article needs some attention. Biblbroks 07:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagged for expert review of article 

message: Although the interplay between health, ocd and catholic guilt is interesting there is no need to do original research on the subject. I've removed references to both and suggest that those excelent contributions be moved to a relevant categories. Please stay focused on studies that claim a link to Catholic Guilt. 
I think that there needs to be subsections on abortion since there's quite a few Catholic books on the subject. There should also be something about homosexuality and Catholic guilt, it's the most popular according to my google-fu.
Elephx3 20:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed OCD and Health benefits 

message: In the spring of 2002, Italian scientists at the University of Parma conducted a study of  nuns, priests, committed lay Catholics, and others with minimal religious involvement.  Each subject was asked to document any mild Obsessive-compulsive disorder symptoms such as intrusive mental images or worries.  The more devout Catholics reported more severe symptoms. 
The researchers stress that their study does not prove that religious devotion early in life causes OCD.  They have stated it is possible that people with a tendency to develop the condition may be attracted to a religious lifestyle. 
Dr Lynne Drummond, a psychiatrist at St George's Hospital, said it is likely that people must have a genetic predisposition to develop symptoms of OCD. However, she said many OCD patients have stated that they had a strict upbringing where actions were right or wrong, black or white. 
Ian Hancock, an expert on OCD, at Dumfries and Galloway Primary Care NHS Trust, believes that although there is probably a genetic component to the condition, environmental factors, such as parenting, are likely to play an important role in its development.
"As a religion Catholicism tends to emphasize personal responsibility, guilt, and a sense of right and wrong.  Any teaching that emphasizes these issues in a very powerful way could be additional pressure for one who is prone to feelings of guilt in the first place.  It could well be a factor contributing towards the development of an Obsessive-compulsive coping strategy." 
* Religious 'vulnerable to compulsion'.  BBC News.  Retrieved 18 February, 2006.
*Churchgoing improves life expectancy "BBC News".   Retreved  17 March, 2006.
*Evidence Behind Claim Of Religion-Health Link Is Shaky, Researchers Say Center for the Advancement of Health
*Religion-Health Connection Claims Questioned Cemter for the Advancement of Health
I'm a Catholic and I oppose abortion, contraception, gays, ect.. because I believe they are wrong not because of "guilt." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joseph Baker (talk • contribs) 
::Fortunately, the opinion of Catholics has no bearing on this article. Naturally, they will resist criticism. --Kelt65 15:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suspected relationship to obsessive-compulsive disorder 

message: So we need an article that says people who have values feel bad when they do something that goes against them... why is this article neccesary?--E tac 17:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Um ok

message: The article should explain how Catholic guilt is any different from Protestant guilt, Jewish guilt or guilt in any other religions. The Psalms contain many passages on guilt and so the associated feeling is part of a broader Judeo-Christian biblical culture. And while Protestants and others have never had recourse to sacraments like confession, they do share the inherent culture of remorse and acknowledgement of sin as understood in Sacred Scripture. ADM (talk) 08:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The article shouldn't exist any more than Red car. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 11:34, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Protestant guilt, Jewish guilt, etc

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: I don't see how the investigation of this phrase, which could be rather interesting (although I'd insist that the actual topic is what is it that Protestants and other outsiders see in Catholicism that lets them speak of "Catholic guilt", and as you have guessed, am a Catholic), is helped in any manner whatsoever by choosing, as one of only two quotes, a quote from a comedian from a professedly satirical program which is obvious hyperbole, and that out of context
Speaking of that, Brideshead Revisited is the higher literature, but I'd say that it too is out of place, seeing that it doesn't describe anything which the coiners of the phrase thought to criticise with it (rightly or, rather probably, wrongly). Julia Flyte does not experience anything commonly associated with the term as I've heard it. It is out of context too, but it seems that she says so "distressed by her romantic relationship with Charles Ryder". Now, people in extramarital relationships are supposed to feel guilty, as any Protestant that is at least half-ways fair would agree - it is not a reasonless guilt or any such thing at all, and the context, as far as Wikipedia gives it (I have not read Brideshead Rev. yet), is that once the situation would have ceased and the problem duly confessed and all, of course the feeling of guilt would go away.--87.166.165.90 (talk) 22:57, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  30 Rocks quote, seriously? (and Waugham while we're at it)