Talk:Karl Wolff

message: Please feel free to revise and expand on the issue of Wolff's knowledge of the Holocaust. --Jstalin 17:02, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, especially the account of Yankel Wiernik should be brought under public attention http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm ! --41.15.221.94 (talk) 22:02, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled 

message: "...Despite this, he openly admits in the television documentary The World At War that he witnessed an execution of Jewish prisoners with Himmler, going so far as to describe the splatter of brains on Himmler's coat...."  - There is no mentioning in the World at War episode of the ethnicity or reasons of the prisoners being shot. So please take out the "Jewish" from the article. --41.14.211.41 (talk) 23:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And you are surely a dealer in bs. 2003:DA:970E:A621:B519:5B0:4A2:8347 (talk) 19:52, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Execution of Prisoners 

message: Heydrich didn't have friend in the SS and not particulary with Wolff !!--Bobybarman34 (talk) 12:49, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Friendship? 

message: Wolff continually displayed his anti-semitism throughout his career. After the war he was interviewed by CIC and others in the US Military, he made bigoted remarks as a matter of course.
He complained about his inprisonment, whining about in comparison to the death of thousands of Jews. "A Jew is killed in the gas chamber in a few seconds, without having any idea or knowing it. My comrades and I have been allowed to die once every night for 21 months. This is much more Inhumane than the extermination used on the Jews. Too much has been grossly exaggerated." Jochen Von Lang, 'Top Nazi SS General Karl Wolff: the man between hitler and himmler,' New York, Enigma Books, 2005.
Hesweeney (talk) 21:36, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-Semitism 

message: Please see the comparison to web content on http://ahnen.greyfalcon.us/rahn.html (sidebar). It matches word for word the unsourced content from this article. Sometimes it's hard to tell which content is the original one and which one is the mirror cite, but in this case I suspect that "greyfalcon" is the original source, due to unusual word choices such as "Messrs Heidemann and Kujau" and because of generally well rounded prose. Note that the "soap opera" content is not part of greyfalcon's narrative; it must have been added later. 
I would like more opinions on this. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:44, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree with rewrite/removal, Greyfalcon is not an RS source and it does appear to be a copyright violation;  which you raise. Kierzek (talk) 02:18, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. I also left a msg for Diannaa, since he has experience with copyvios. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:40, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Good, as I was assuming the information came first from that site, but it may be the other way around; I await her final verdict. Kierzek (talk) 11:52, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The text on the left hand sidebar of that other site appears to have been lifted from Wikipedia.  The intro paragraph of this article, in particular the part about Wolff serving as Supreme SS and Commander of Italy, was added by me quite some time ago  and wasn't copied from that other site. -O.R.Comms 14:13, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Checking using the Wayback Machine shows that the material was added to ahnen.greyfalcon.us sometime between May 9, 2013, and August 19, 2013. Looking at the  shows we already had the content on that date. The material on Wolff in the left sidebar was copied from Wikipedia, not the other way around. — Diannaa (talk) 14:34, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to both of you for the information. Then the article needs ce work with RS cites added (like so many articles). Kierzek (talk) 14:54, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you; I will use these tools in the future. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:40, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I have done some copy edit work and added cites; it is in better shape now. Kierzek (talk) 14:20, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matched content 

message: The result of the above discussion appears to be that Wikipedia articles should include lists of official state and military awards and decorations, including lesser decorations such as campaign and service awards, when such awards may be cited in reliable sources to include official service records and discharge/retirement government documents.  While there is still some contention about including these lists in articles, there are literally hundreds of Wikipeida articles on military and political figures that provide award lists in this fashion.  With that said, I recommend the following:
As this talk page discussion has gotten grossly out of control, I have recommended the above thread by archived in an attempt to end this circular debate which was also starting to infringe upon WP:AGF, WP:CIV, and WP:NPA.  I highly encourage subsequent comments should be made in an appropriate discussion page as follows: 
*To discuss the merits of including Nazi awards and decorations in articles, please begin a new discussion at the WikiProject Military History talk page.
*To discuss including minor awards in articles, such as campaign and service medals, please also discuss at WikiProject Military History.  
*To discuss specific awards earned by Karl Wolff, please begin a new talk page discussion at Service record of Karl Wolff.  
I highly recommend that this talk page should  not spin into another discussion about the merits of including award lists in Wikipedia articles.  That is clearly outside the scope of this single article on Karl Wolff. -O.R.Comms 05:29, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Let me make sure I understand this.... you've closed the debate with the recommendation that we start a new discussion? Niteshift36 (talk) 17:28, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all, the above is a recommendation to close this debate.  The issue of discussing the merits of award lists in Wikipedia is off topic and the suggestion above was to take that discussion to another talk page if people still want to pursue it. -O.R.Comms 18:08, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You altered the original post and made no mention of that, adding a 3rd "directive" and rewording the one that I questioned. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:03, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, since the original post was written prior to the creation of "Service record of Karl Wolff", thereafter requiring a rewording to advise of the new article.  Users also don't typically need permission nor are required to post notification if they modify their own talk page posts.  These are also not directives, they are recommendations.  In any event, it looks like this discussion can be closed. -O.R.Comms 10:22, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't say you needed permission, but making it clear would be polite since I raised a concern, then you went in and edited for clarity, making it appear that I wasn't able to understand it. But you're right, courtesy isn't required -Niteshift36 (talk) 15:58, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Your original question was answered here .  The editing of the original comment had nothing to do with your question or any suggestion about what you didn't understand, it was because a new article was created and the links had changed.  That's a pretty normal thing to do; sorry about any confusion! -O.R.Comms 16:49, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

text: I agree, this discussion has a bad case of mission creep. This is not a forum for a wide-ranging conversation about Nazi awards, it is a place to discuss the Wolff article. Peacemaker67  (click to talk to me) 08:00, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Closing debate

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: After the war, Wolff was forced to leave the army after the reduction of the German armed forces following the terms imposed by the Treaty of Versailles. In December 1918 Wolff joined a Hessian Freikorps - sounds somewhat illogical. Leaving the army, December 1918, because of terms imposed end of June, 1919 - ? --129.187.244.19 (talk) 05:46, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logic ? 

message: This reads like pop-culture trivia, with sources to match and the language of: Wolff testified...; Wolff maintained... and weak arguments by a nn author. I propose that a shortened version be moved into "Later life" since these claims were popularised by the 1972 documentary. --K.e.coffman (talk) 19:23, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there were no objections, I've implemented the change. --K.e.coffman (talk) 20:06, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section: Alleged plot to kidnap Pope Pius XII