Template talk:Jewish languages

message: Given that neither Hebrew nor Aramaic is Indo-European, the present breakdown of categories seems a bit odd. -- Jmabel | Talk
:Yeah, I just didn't want a huge list of languages in one section.  The section heading can come out, or if you think of other classifications that would be fine too. Jayjg (talk) 01:40, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Indo-European

message: Urgent: see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Hebrew) to add your opinions about this important matter. Thank you. IZAK 18:19, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hebrew naming conventions  

message: What are the "Nat'l Yiddish Book Ctr.", "YIVO", and "Yiddish Theater" doing in a list of languages?  --futhark 16:51, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where does it say that the template is restricted to listing languages?  Tomertalk 10:06, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The template is headed "Jewish Languages". Each of the subheadings is the name of a language family. Every entry in the table is the name of a language, with the exception of the three entries about Yiddish that I am questioning. If I have incorrectly inferred the purpose of the table, would someone please explain it to me? --futhark 15:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The "list" idea you refer to is part of the Jewish languages article.  Additionally, there is a :Category:Jewish languages.  While the heading says "Jewish Languages", the topic is not a list.  The template brings together all aspects of Jewish languages--the fact that there's plenty of room to grow for other languages besides Yiddish is no reason to hobble the Yiddish section of the template.  I foresee a future for the template in which several new sections are developed that go way beyond the current scope, which is primarily organized on the basis of genetic relationship between the languages.   Right now, based on the number of articles there are out there, this is the organizational structure that makes the most sense.  This structure, however, is only one of several possibilities that suggest themselves (age, number of speakers, [secular] literary importance, use by the sages, etc.)... The current layout is a reflection of the table's original layout, which was itself a reflection of the then-burgeoning section on Jewish languages in .  There are additional articles on Hebrew phonology, alphabet, grammar, study, literature, and all the articles in , for example, and Yiddish orthography and phonology and Yiddish morphology, as well as the lists Yiddish words and phrases used by English speakers and List of English words of Yiddish origin.  With time and effort, these can all be incorporated into the template.  Anyways, my primary interest for right now was to implement the "bottom" vs. "side" template style that was agreed upon by basically everyone but me several months ago.  I'm not strongly attached to keeping the other links there (w/ the definite exception of YIVO), but I'd rather see the template developed than stripped down.  The links for Yiddish theatre, National Yiddish Book Center, Yiddish typography and such could probably be handled together by including instead a link to :Category:Yiddish.  Tomertalk 22:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think that the first three Yiddish entries look out of place. Also, if this list were "further developed," it would really become a monster. I think it nicely does the job of connecting the Jewish languages. Perhaps it would be appropriate to have some sort of "Yiddish Language/Culture" table to connect that category of articles.   --Eliyak 00:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isn't the template supposed to list languages? 

message: I reverted an anon's alteration of Italkit to Judeo-Italian varieties for 2 reasons:
#Italkit covers all the varieties so this doesn't need to be specified in the template and,
#Putting it in there that way unnecessarily widens the template for no redeemable reason I can see.  
Tomertalk 10:18, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italkit vs. "Judeo-Italian varieties" 

message: TShilo reverted my change of "dialects" to "vocalizations" with the claim that there are even differences in vocabulary.
This is simply not so. The historical differences between Ashkenazi, Sepharadi, Yemenite, etc. are for a language that was used for liturgy and Torah study, not a spoken language in day-to-day life. The texts were written similarly in all locations and could be sent, say, from Syria to France and read, but they would be read with different pronunciations in each place. All groups shared a common written corpus but pronounced it differently.
The way "dialect" is normally understood is not appropriate to the historical reality being described in this chart. Dovi 08:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dialects versus vocalizations 

message: Should Amharic and Tigrinya be included here since they were (and still are) spoken by the Beta Israel and related Jewish groups in Ethiopia? What about Ge'ez as a liturgical language?
ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 18:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If I understand correctly, those languages are not specifically Jewishly developed languages, but languages which happen to be spoken by Jews, and to include those would probably result in a list of nearly all existing and dead languages. --Eliyak 01:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethiopian Semitic languages 

message: I have rolled back User:Danielbart's inexplicable removal of Judeo-Kurdish.  I'm curious to learn how the removal can possibly be defended, so if any one can, lay it on me... Tomertalk 06:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert 

message: To add, somewhere... I'm uncertain...but I think this doesn't properly belong under "Yiddish" http://judaisme.sdv.fr//dialecte/ Comments?  Tomertalk 23:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Further reading indicates that Judeo-Alsatian is another name for Western Yiddish.  Perhaps some redirects? Tomertalk 04:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Judeo-Alsatian is a local Western Yiddish dialect. The terms are not synonymous. I'll say more about this on the as yet unstarted Western Yiddish talk page. There have also been remarks about a vestigial argot from another Western Yiddish dialect on the Yiddish talk page. It may soon be time to indicate the hierarchical relationships between classes of Yiddish dialects in the template. --Futhark|Talk 09:27, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough.  When this is clarified, the redirects I've created should be fixed to point to the appropriate place.  Tomertalk 10:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Judeo-Alsatian language]] 

message: Any interest in breaking Yiddish off to its own template?  Presumably, such a template would include:
*Yiddish language
*Yiddish literature
*Yiddish theatre
*Yiddish Wikipedia (although I'm not sure this article should even exist...)
*Yiddish dialects
*List of English words of Yiddish origin
*Eastern Yiddish
*Western Yiddish
*Yiddish typography
*Yiddish orthography
*Yinglish
*Yiddish Renaissance
*Yiddish phonology
*Yiddish Renaissance
*Yeshivish
*YIVO
*National Yiddish Book Center
*Yiddish morphology
*Klezmer-loshn
*Bucharest Yiddish Studio Theater
*The Joys of Yiddish
*prolly some stuff from :Category:Yiddish literature and :Category:Yiddish-language occupations as well...
Gedächte?  Tomertalk 00:20, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean a Yiddish template instead of the current one, or in addition to it?  I don't think that there is anything particularly useful to be gained by the former, but do feel that the latter would be unjustified extra baggage. Why the separation of Yiddish and not any of the other Jewish languages that head multiple articles (Hebrew comes immediately to mind)?  Might it not be more effective simply to lighten the present template by restricting it to its nominal purpose, and only including references to languages proper?  -- Futhark|Talk 17:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Care to elaborate on your last remark?  Tomertalk 18:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

text: To be clear, the above was forwarded as an extension of this discussion.  Tomertalk 18:08, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I took your proposal to indicate that you no longer felt it appropriate to keep the references to "Yiddish institutions" in the template. My intention was to suggest simply removing them, without constructing a separate template (regardless of any further references that might be placed there). -- Futhark|Talk 21:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think characterizing it as a "proposal" is a bit strong... :-p  Tomertalk 21:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Sorry. What about my own suggestion of removing the line headed "Yiddish institutions" from the present template? -- Futhark|Talk 22:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was never particularly attached to it... it was only included in the template I redid because it was in the old rhs template.  I would still like to see the template better developed, but I'm inclined to agree with others that it should prolly just stick w/ the languages themselves.  If you want to take the extraneous yiddish links out, go for it, but you might find yourself suddenly opposed by whoever originally thought they belonged in there.  I'm inclined to redo that section myself already, as I don't think Yinglish and Yeshivish properly belong as "derivatives" of Yiddish, but as "Judeo-English" or "Jewish English", which is how they are described elsewhere (i.e., outside Wikipedia)... and there needs to be some way of including Judæo-Alsatian (and possibly other Jewish Germanic languages, should they exist).  See above.  Cheers, Tomertalk 22:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I've now deleted the institutional references. -- Futhark|Talk 09:03, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Yiddish]] articles template 

message: Jewish-English helps:       I'm not sure if the Encino/Hebonics thing is actually just a joke... Tomertalk 01:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've written a stub article on Jewish English languages, added it to the template, and moved Yinglish and Yeshivish. (While at it, I also moved Klezmer-loshn — which is definitely not of comparable status to the other dialects — to another new heading.) -- Futhark|Talk 10:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work. :-)  Tomertalk 00:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Good work indeed. New articles are needed: Yinglish and Yeshivish--HIZKIAH (User  Talk) 13:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh...have you looked at them?  Tomertalk 07:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish English