Talk:Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix of Hesse)

message: I have added an extra title to the titles from birth to death section of this article but I may be wrong. Please feel free to correct me. Following the abdication of Nicholas II, Alexandra ceased to be the Empress of all the Russias. Therefore as Nicholas was no longer the reigning monarch and could not revert to his previous titles, Alexandra reverted back to her previous title which is Her Grand Ducal Highness Princess Alexandra (not Alix as she had changed her name by this point) of Hesse and by Rhine. If we take the view that she kept her title (which the Soviets did not allow her to do so), she would have becomes Her Imperial Majesty Empress Alexandra of all the Russias from her husbands abdication in 1917 until 1918. Similarily if none of the above options apply, she would have become Mrs Alexandra Romanov on her husbands abdication or probably Mrs Nicholas Romanov. Consider thinking about this!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.96.143 (talk) 17:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Titles from birth to death section

message: ::For multi-proposals Approval voting is encouraged for page moves requested under WP:RM
::Add #  followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
* Propose that the name remains Alexandra Fyodorovna of Hesse
           
#Arrigo 22:49, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment (opposing): I am not ready to approve this alternative. Parenthetical disambiguation is messy, and causes difficulties to users. There are other alternatives in this vote which are better. Arrigo 09:24, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

text: comment (opposing): Wrongful application of naming standard, going up to the extreme. Arrigo 18:06, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

text: comment (opposing): Wrongful application. In addition, "and by Rhine" is a ridiculous pomposity. Arrigo 18:06, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Vote

message: Nothing is going on for a while and there is no solution in sight.
I would like to start a new vote just for one name: Alexandra Fyodorovna (Alix of Hesse). Let's see whether it is rejected and, if not, we can move the article. Reasons explained above. Are there objections to starting this vote for this one name from a clean list? --Irpen 23:21, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's try a more simple procedure already discussed

message: What date did the coronation take place? I can't seem to find it on Nicholas's page either.
The coronation took place on May 14th 1896 which I added, I also added a link to the khodynka tragedy.
Stevenscollege 19:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coronation date ? 

message: I went ahead and moved all discussions which looked pretty much dead since 2005, to Archive 1.  If I accidentally moved anything that anyone feels was important and needed to the current discussions, please feel free to pull it back here to the main page. --Elonka 19:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archiving 

message: If so, Category:People executed by firing squad should go as it only should contain judicial executions. If it is considered judicial by relevant criteria, it cannot be categorized as murder. __meco 16:18, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: However, do we want to deny the existence of administrative executions? Septentrionalis 03:39, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have raised this question at Category talk:People executed by firing squad. __meco 01:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was the execution extrajudicial? 

message: This may have been addressed earlier, but should the title of this article not be "Alix of Hesse and by Rhine (Alexandra Fyodorovna)"? s per Wiki conventions re naming of royal/imperial spouses? Mowens35 22:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If that is indeed the convention, then yes. However, I don't think and by Rhine is generally used in articles titles for members of the house. Charles 23:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked and so far it's only the grand dukes that and by Rhine isn't used with. It's used for all other members of the house. But Alix, as a consort and for the sake of brevity, doesn't really need it. Charles 23:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean her first name, "Alix of Hesse and by Rhine" instead of "Alexandra of Hesse and by Rhine" ... the former is correct, the latter not. Mowens35 23:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The correct way for this title is "Alice of Hesse (Alexandra Fyodorovna)". Having her birth name in front and the name she accepted in Russia in parentheses. Popov 2000
First, I would like to chastice in strongest possible terms the moves taken wihout consultation irrelevant of how I see the new names. As for the name, the person is best known as an empress of Russia which she was as Alexandra Fyodorvna, not a the German princess. But I do see a point with parenthised name, which should be then Alexandra Fyodorvna (Alix of Hesse). Before responding, please make sure you are familiar with past discussions. --Irpen 23:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Not necessarily objecting, pls check the past talk and archives on why some users claim that this emrpess qualifies as an excemtion. As for the uniletaral moves, I can nothing but agree with you. However, no direct vote will ever come up with the concensus of a single best name. I suggested a rating voting earlier. This was a very hot discussion which settled to no one's satisfaction. BTW, we can move the article back to AF of Hesse despite that is also not the best name, obviously. Just for the sake of restoring the status quo. --Irpen 00:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Well then, since Alexandra and Mary were both Empresses of India, should they be part of the exception too?  Not being serious there, BTW. The name of this article has caused many edit wars, and arguements over the years, and Alexandra Feodorovna/Fyodorovna of Hesse was the best compromise.  I personally think it should be a Alix of Hesse and by Rhine or Alix of Hesse as that was her maiden name. Prsgoddess187 00:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I could live with Alexandra Fyodorovna (Alix of Hesse); since that has her adopted name and maiden name in there. Since, technically, she became AF prior to her marriage, at her adoption into the Orthodox Church. Prsgoddess187 01:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: Can I just ask why the did consorts of Russian emporers take the surname or patronmyic of Feodrovna on marriage? Penrithguy 19:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But she used Feodorovna because her father's name was not that of an Orthodox saint. I don't know why Feodor; it may have sounded like Friedrich, the first of his actual names. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

text: The "Fyodorovskaya" Icon of the Mother of God was the patron icon of the House of Romanovs since 1600s - hence the reason why the imperial consorts, converting to Orthodox Christianity, often took a patronymic "Feodorovna". The additional reason would be that the ancestor of the branch of Romanovs who became Tsars was Feodor Nikitich Romanov a.k.a. Patriarch Philaret of Moscow. The addition of the patronymic made sense as the incorporation of a new princess into the family. ouital77 (talk) 05:06, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Feodorovna?

message: Hey guys, I question the need to include the statement below in the article. It is not directly related to Alexandra Fyodorovna and should really be placed in the Rasputin article under his biography section.
"Rasputin was eventually murdered. Amongst the conspirators was a nobleman Prince Felix Yusupov and a member of the Romanov family Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich, who was married to the Tsar's niece Princess Irina (daughter of Grand Duchess Xenia Alexandrovna and Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich) in 1916."
I have deleted it from the article and placed it here so that it is not lost.
Cheers61.68.183.41 14:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems clearly relevant; although it could well be shortened. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Can I point out something in the above comment? Irina was married to Felix Yusupov, but she was never a Grand Duchess. She wasn't a Grand Duchess because wasn't a daughter of the Tsar. She was a niece/granddaughter of a Tsar, but since she wasn't actually born to a Tsar, hence, she couldn't be a Grand Duchess. A Grand Princess is equal to a Grand Duchess, and that confuses quite a few people, but the titles of Prince and Princess (without the Grand in front of them) are of a lower rank. Itsnatashadak (talk) 02:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Guys should this part be included?

message: I am getting so tired of seeing articles that look totally RIDICULOUS because some users want to over-stuff them with images. With little regard for layout, these users care only that the said photos are placed right next to whichever paragraph that mentions whatever is in the image. Although this can be a good thing it must be done with taste - this article looks TERRIBLE!!
--Mrlopez2681 (talk) 07:40, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have attempted to make the article look a little better by removing the many images that can easily be viewed in their own respective articles, while still trying to retain a few.
--Mrlopez2681 (talk) 03:57, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  TO MANY PHOTOS 

message: Alix was born on the 6th of June 1872. I correct the info in the article. If somebody ask me, I give you references.--AndreaMimi (talk) 18:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthday 

message: This article has been renamed from Alexandra Fyodorovna (Alix of Hesse) to Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix of Hesse) as the result of a move request.
 - move.
Alexandra Fyodorovna (Alix of Hesse) → Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix of Hesse) — The correct form of her patronymic in English would be Feodorovna. Her other predecessors, Dagmar of Denmark and Sophie Dorothea of Württemberg are located at Feodorovna, and this is where Alix needs to be as well. —Morhange (talk) 23:28, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Support as nominator. Morhange (talk) 23:31, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Any additional comments:
===Godparents===
One of Alix's godparents is noted as the Landgravine of Hesse. However when you click on the link, it brings you to "Duchess Anna of Prussia and Jülich-Cleves-Berg (3 July 1576 - 30 August 1625) "
Clearly this woman could not have been the godmother of a princess born in 1872. Please amend.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welys (talk • contribs) 11:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Support as nominator. Morhange (talk) 23:31, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: One of Alix's godparents is noted as the Landgravine of Hesse. However when you click on the link, it brings you to "Duchess Anna of Prussia and Jülich-Cleves-Berg (3 July 1576 - 30 August 1625) "
Clearly this woman could not have been the godmother of a princess born in 1872. Please amend.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welys (talk • contribs) 11:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Godparents

message: Alix was married relatively late for her rank in her era
how is 22 marying late? cam somebody please explaine to me thank you  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.28.168 (talk) 18:10, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marriage 

message: All of the debate about its spelling aside, how exactly did Alexandra come by the Feodorovna name?  Wouldn't this normally be a patronymic?  It doesn't appear to have any relationship to the name of her father (Louis, or Ludwig -- not sure what the Russian equivalent would be if there is such a thing). Is it the name of a godfather or some sponsor for her conversion to Orthodoxy? --Jfruh (talk) 02:21, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Tsaritsa. It seems that the Feodorovna patronymic derives from Theotokos Fyodorovskaya.--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 21:58, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of Feodorovna patronymic? 

message: This is my first ever alteration to Wikipedia, so am a little unsure about what to report, etc.
I saw on the table for Issue that the death dates were given as 18th July. I have altered these to 17th July (can provide long list of references for this if wanted). All other places on wikipedia, and this page also, gives the execution date of the family as the 17th. If these things are not reported here, let me know. :)
Paul
Ekhmuel (talk) 14:04, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alteration of Death Dates of Children 

message: In the section "Relationship with Children"
"Olga could not be the heir presumptive due to the Pauline Laws implemented by tsar Paul I: only a male could succeed to the Russian throne, although there were four female monarchs of Russia before Paul."
This is not true - the Paulione Laws stopped females inheriting if there were ANY male heirs. Perhaps:
"Olga could not be the heir presumptive due to the Pauline Laws implemented by tsar Paul I: Females could succeed to the throne only if there were no other possible male heirs anywhere within the family."
The latter statement about four prior Sovereign Tsaritsas then becomes redundant.
Paul
Ekhmuel (talk) 14:21, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modification needed to explanation of Pauline Laws? 

message: Just like with Russian tsars. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 19:11, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Not in WP:POLAND scope

message: The article uses both of the above in different places, apparently without pattern.  While the former is common in English it is incorrect (see my edit to "Tsaritsa" if it survives) and it would be best if this and other articles used "tsaritsa" and referenced the article "Tsaritsa" for an explanation. Chrismorey (talk) 03:32, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tsarina or Tsaritsa? 

message: In section 3.2, "Rejection By the Russian People," this article said, in reference to Alexandra's uncle- and aunt-in-law:
: Quite accurately, she considered their sons Kyrill, Boris and Andrei to be irredeemably immoral, and in 1913 refused Boris's proposal for the hand of Grand Duchess Olga.
I removed the phrase "quite accurately," since it was a statement of the author's opinion (i.e., that Alexandra was correct to consider the three men "irredeemably immoral"), not a fact.  There are other parts of this article that I think might need cleaning up for non-factual statements, but this was the only one I found that I was really sure about.  Mia229 (talk) 02:38, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "quite accurately" - author's opinion 

message: Whoever wrote the section in Engagement has taken large sections from Robert Massie's book, "Nicholas and Alexandra", without putting them in quotation or citing the source. I know this because I have read the Massie book so frequently I have it almost memorized. Here is an example: 
"Alexander III and his wife Maria Feodorovna (Dagmar of Denmark), both vigorously anti-German, had no intention of permitting a match with the tsarevich. Although Princess Alix was his godchild, it was generally known that Alexander III was angling for a bigger catch for his son, someone like Princess Hélène, the tall dark-haired daughter of Philippe, comte de Paris, pretender to the throne of France.[5] The prospect of marrying Hélène did not appeal to Nicholas. He wrote in his diary, "Mama made a few allusions to Hélène, daughter of the Comte de Paris. I myself want to go in one direction and it is evident that Mama wants me to choose the other one."[6] Fortunately for Nicholas, Hélène also resisted. She was Roman Catholic and her father refused to allow her to become Russian Orthodox. After appealing to the Pope, who refused to consider the marriage, the relationship ended. The tsar, despite his anti-German sentiments, then sent emissaries to Princess Margaret of Prussia, daughter of German Emperor Frederick III and sister of German Emperor Wilhelm II, and, who was, like Alix, a granddaughter of Queen Victoria. Nicholas flatly declared that he would rather become a monk than marry the plain and boring Margaret. Margaret stated in any case that she was unwilling 
to give up her Protestant religion to become Russian Orthodox.
As long as he was well, Alexander III ignored his son's demands. He only relented as his health began to fail in 1894.[7] Alix was troubled by the requirement that she renounce her Lutheran faith and become Orthodox, but she was persuaded and eventually became a fervent convert. Alexander III and Marie Feodorovna were not the only ones opposed to the match: Queen Victoria was also opposed to the match, writing to Alix's sister Victoria of her suspicions (which were correct) that Sergei and Elizabeth were encouraging the match.[8] The Queen's opposition stemmed not from personal feelings about the Tsarevich, whom she personally liked, but her misgivings about Russia, including past political experiences, her personal dislike of Nicholas's father, and fears over her granddaughter's safety."Sdsures (talk) 21:13, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism Alert 

message: Some parts of this article seem to be copied-pasted from the original sources, for example this: 
or
--AMPERIO (talk) 11:16, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism? 

message: Is it really appropriate to refer to refer to Alexandra as her "Christian name"? She was already Christian before she became Orthodox.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:02, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If no one objects within a week I'm going to change this to "baptismal name", though I'm open to suggestions.--Ermenrich (talk) 22:31, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Her baptismal name was Alix. I would suggest "forename" or simply "name" instead of "Christian name and patronymic". DrKay (talk) 06:58, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Christian name" 

message: Is there a reason why we changed the photo in the infobox? I personally believe the old one captured her appearance much better than the current one and I see no vote or consensus on the change. It seems like it was just changed on a whim and nobody said anything about it. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 01:01, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox Photo 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:51, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: I personally believe that there are not enough photographs on this Wikipedia article Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix of Hesse). I will try to add more. I have already changed the first photograph on this article. Could someone please help me? If so, thank you. Tsarina Alexandra Hesse (talk) 17:02, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not enough photographs 

message: I’m new to the Wikipedia community, so apologies in advance for any errors.
Two of the sources in the Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix of Hesse) have been debunked by historians as inaccurate/false. 
The first being “Martha Mouchanow, My Empress: Twenty-Three Years of Intimate Life with the Empress of all the Russias from her Marriage to the Day of her Exile”. Martha Mouchanow is an alias, and their identity has never been discovered. Regardless, nearly all of their ‘memoirs’ can be proven to be inaccurate/false by looking at the letters and diaries of the Romanov family.
The second being, Carolly Erickson’s book “Alexandra: The Last Tsarina”. Erickson relied heavily on Mouchanow as a source for her book, so her book is of course mostly inaccurate as a result. 
I’m not sure how to go about fixing this, so any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Louvima (talk) 14:19, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: First, you'd need to show Reliable Sources that disprove the Mouchanow book. However, you seem to be a drive-by commentator and nothing further was heard from you. 2603:6080:21F0:6140:4D37:3BB5:666B:DA11 (talk) 04:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disproven Sources