Talk:Eland armoured car

message: The Mk 7 has a diesel engine, the earlier versions had the petrol engine. Part of the Mk 7 upgrade was in fact the replacement of the petrol engine with a diesel unit. This article mixes specifications of different Marks. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:38, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If one reads into it, the text doesn't actually mix specs, although I'll concede that it does not make the chronology immediately clear. The new "variants and upgrades" section is intended to remedy this. --Katangais (talk) 09:55, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

text: I found a source that answers most of the questions about the upgrades of the various Marks - www.army-guide.com/eng/product2748.html - Unfortunately the site is on the spam blacklist. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:13, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

text: Do you think somebody ought to appeal for an exception? Also, I do believe you're mistaken about the Mk7. The Rhodesians had a few of these imported to replace their older Mk4s in the late '70s - and the source you mentioned (army-guide.com) does back this up. --Katangais (talk) 20:46, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Dodge, as I dig further into the Eland's production history I'm beginning to doubt that Sandock-Austral even gave the vehicle a diesel engine in '79. Is it possible they only put one in their export models, when they were shipping Elands out to the Congo in the '90s? --Katangais (talk) 03:03, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diesel engine 

message: It's all very well to remove my edit as unnecessary or pointy, Dodge. But I must object to your challenging its accuracy without a source to back your claim up. At least try to debunk the information before you attack it. The Rooikat was brought in to replace the Eland in the early 1990s, too late for service in the Angolan war. Of that I am perfectly aware. However, Mechem Consultants was still working on an Eland upgrade programme in '91. This even spawned the related MC-90/Springbok armoured car prototype, which was based off an improved Eland concept but utilised a Unimog chassis. They didn't actually get good prototypes up and about until '96, and were still trying to offer it as the replacement for the Eland that year. By that point, of course, the SANDF had tired of the vehicle. They wanted something packing heavier firepower and a harder edge (see the article's third source) - which Rooikat offered. In the meantime, however, Elands were still in active service. They weren't withdrawn and relegated to their reserve roles until the mid to late '90s - that was when the SANDF really started trying to market them to other African states (Malawi and even Mozambique were said to be interested, Uganda bought 40). In that sense, SANDF wasn't quite ready to replace the Eland in '90-'91 because they weren't being phased out yet, to be replaced by newer Rooikats. Keep in mind that most of the SANDF's present Rooikat fleet was still in production at this time.
Thanks!
--Katangais (talk) 23:03, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The first Rooikat entered service before 1994, thus the process of phasing out the Eland was begun before apartheid ended. However, my main objection is the gratuitous reference to apartheid - for no really relevant reason. Using the A-word like this is what ANC government people do when they need to score cheap political points - it doesn't belong in a technical article on Wikipedia about a piece of machinery. It's way past my bedtime... goodnight. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 23:21, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccurate/pointy edit 

message: Hi,
There is an ongoing proposal based on reasonable feedback that this article be moved to "Eland armoured car". If an editor has any objections to this action, feel free to discuss them below.
Thanks,
--Katangais (talk) 11:03, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name change 

message: Hi Roger,
Unlike the Rooikat, the Eland is air-portable (the only remaining advantage it could still offer the SANDF in the 2000s), and Heitman - a source you seem to cite frequently - describes in detail a onetime contingency for deploying Eland 90s behind FAPLA lines via parachute during cross-border ops for wreaking havoc on the Angolan rear and harassing reinforcements bound for a primary target.
May I remind you that in Israeli service AML-90s were deployed during the Six Day War from a Nord Noratlas 2501 with scouts of the IDF's para brigade.
Thanks,
--Katangais (talk) 18:55, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Airborne use 

message: Saw some pictures on the web the other day of what was described as a captured "AML-20" in service with Iraq. A US soldier apparently took the photographs during Desert Storm. At the time, there was only one operator of Panhard AML-20s that I know of: Ireland, which had Ratel turrets installed in their vehicles by Sandock-Austral. Eland-20s were in service with RSA, Uganda, and Morocco. Seeing as how it's very unlikely that Ireland sold anything to Iraq, this means that Saddam's forces probably operated Eland-20s. They may have bought them off the Ugandans or received them direct from Pretoria; I understand that some G-5s were sold to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War and a few Elands may have been discreetly shipped off as well. 
The photos in question were actually taken in Kuwait, so it's possible that the Kuwaitis operated Eland-20s and they were simply captured by Iraqi troops (as was the case with a number of other light armoured cars). This would make Kuwait a confirmed Eland operator, as well. Interestingly enough, this is the only mention of Elands in Iraq. If any have survived to present day they're probably in a scrapyard.
Thanks, --Katangais (talk) 21:03, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Clarified this, thanks to some assistance from a contact with the proper reference material. Iraqi AML-20s were merely modified AML-60s with both the old armament and a new autocannon attached, between the mortar and the co-axial machine gun. They weren't Elands with Ratel turrets. --Katangais (talk) 01:53, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elands with Iraq 

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