Talk:Confessional Lutheranism

message: It is common for self-styled Confessional Lutherans to accuse other Lutherans of holding a "quaetenus" view of confessional documents. The constitution of the LWF, however, states: The Lutheran World Federation confesses the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the only source and norm of its doctrine, life and service. It sees in the three Ecumenical Creeds and in the Confessions of the Lutheran Church, especially in the unaltered Augsburg Confession and the Small Catechism of Martin Luther, a pure exposition of the Word of God." (http://www.lutheranworld.org/Who_We_Are/LWF-Constitution.pdf) The ordination rite of the LBW (Occasional Services, p. 194, has the ordinand say: The Church in which you are to be ordained confesses that the Holy Scriptures are the Word of God and are the norm of its faith and life. We accept, teach, and confess the Apostles', the Nicene, and the Athanasian Creeds. We also acknowledge the Lutheran Confessios as true witnesses and faithful expositions of the Holy Scriptures."
In other words, these churches also consider themselves to be "confessional", and not merely in a "quatenus" sense, though they may be accused of de facto holding such a stance by more conservative Lutherans. Janko 15:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quia-Quatenus 

message: I removed this reference because of its irrelevance. One might comment that a group might use "confessing" or "confessional" as self-reference when they feel that a status confessionis has arisen, such as the "Confessing Movement" about homosexual clergy or the "Confessing Church" against so-called "German Christians" under National Socialism, but otherwise, this reference is confusing, since the "Confessing Movement" is pandenominational and centered on a particular issue. Janko 11:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confessing Movement 

message: I have tried to remove a great deal of POV from the article (mostly against the "mainline" side, but also one phrase that seemed a bit unfair to the "confessional" position). I ask others (especially Lutherans, who doubtless know more of the finer points) to do whatever they can. Carolynparrishfan 15:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: I wondered if there was any connection to the anti-Nazi Confessing Church, which after all was also within Lutheranism. (Other movements with "confessing" in their name are not such a problem, since they're not particularly Lutheran.) The comment above by Janko suggests that there is no connection, but if this is a common confusion, then it would be useful to have that stated clearly in the article. (I don't want to write anything myself, since I have only circumstantial evidence for any conclusions.) --Toby Bartels 19:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confessional vs confessing 

message: This topic seems to be related to Confessionalism (religion).  We should work to bring the two articles into a better relationship with one another.  Fishal 20:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Harmony with related article

message: I removed this sentence: "In 1932 the LCMS adopted A Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of the Missouri Synod."  As far as I can tell, that Doctrinal Position document says nothing about the Pope.  A reference to it may belong elsewhere in this article, though, and it is available here. Dkurth (talk) 21:03, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Views on the Pope

message: These terms have different meaning to different people, inside and outside church circles, to the point of losing any real meaning. I see very little point in using and/or pepetuating useless "labels". Christ was himself a radical, to follow him is radical. Luther was a radical in his time, as were many of his collaborators, so, to follow him is radical? Suffice it to say, there are many Lutherans who ascribe to some pretty odd, arguably archaic, and debatably non-scriptural notions that reach beyond the realm of The Book of Concord. They not only hold to that work, and to the Word, but do so in the sense of their narrow, finite, understandings, denying their own fallibility, their own humanity. Very unsettling to this layperson. I recommend that this section be removed from the article, as it has no foundation, is unsourced, and is seriously non-neutral in POV. That it is linked from other sources related to Lutheranism also troubles me. There seems to be a lot of fragmentation going on, which creates confusion, makes managing the different articles difficult, and quite honestly, makes POV sections like this "viral". VaChiliman (talk) 22:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That statement was made over three years ago, the section has been hit with a reference tag since 2007.  I would agree it should be deleted completely until such time as it is properly sourced.  In fact, much of the article has elements of POV pushing.  And I would doubt in the extreme that non-polemic sources would be found, as I have yet to see any Lutheran denomination acknowledge a banner of being a "Liberal" denomination or church.  (My own POV is that the L-word is thrown around by denominations that *might* self-identify as Conservative.  But really, let's first find objective sources that would define who the "conservatives" and "liberals" are that don't have a dog in a fight with one another.  Adding:  And then one try to find reliable sources which correlate 'conservative' and 'liberal' to a particular confessional stance, again in a NPOV fashion.  Good luck with that.  Attaching a 'liberal' or 'conservative' banner in Lutheranism, theologically, is rather ludicrous.  But again, this is my POV so I'm not just going to be bold.  Yet.)  02:48, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Conservative vs. Liberal

message: Since this page is mostly about an ideology, would not Confessional Lutheranism be a better page name? Fishal (talk) 16:22, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to -ism? 

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