Talk:Swedish Wikipedia

message: The article count graph seems to be 30 months old. Are there any tools for rendering a more updated version? - Tournesol (talk) 09:07, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Make that 36 months. - Tournesol (talk) 13:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, now that seems to have been fixed (long overdue). :-)--Paracel63 (talk) 12:41, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Almost 51 months now. ⛐Boivie (talk) 12:24, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article count graph 

message: An administrator from  Swedish Wikipedia has been busy lately removing embarrassing facts here. And adding other facts more flattering to h own project. All of the facts - the ones removed and the ones added - and almost all of the article is unsourced. Shouldn't we remove just about everything, rather than letting propagandistic bias dominate the article, unsourced? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:32, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we should have different standards for uncontroversial information and embarrassing "facts". Especially in this article, where Wikipedians probably have a quite good sense about what sounds probable, the risk of major errors not being spotted is quite low. But when such errors are spotted, should they not be removed? For controversial information, we need good sources. What parts of the article in the current version are controversial? (I reinserted info on longtime admins, I hope you can provide the source for the statistics) --LPfi (talk) 13:00, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: As a Swede "Swedish-speaking Finn mostly active on the Wikipedia in Swedish" yourself, you might or might not find bragging about your language project controversial or uncontroversial, and so you may or may not think we need any sources at all for anything like that. What would be great to have here is neutral (non-Swedish) input. If anybody's even interested. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:46, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: As clearly indicated by his/her user page, LPfi is not a Swede. In any case, that kind of argument is not valid here as it's clearly ad hominem. /Grillo (talk) 09:48, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I lay down my head in shame at that horrifying error of mine - have adjusted my comment accordingly to placate you. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:22, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

text: Don't know if you are writing about me or yger. However, 12% is not a large group. Thats why I removed it (is it negative to have a stable group of admins? And they are selected anually, so they are respected by svwp) Adville (talk) 10:33, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: My many years of experience would replace your word "respected" with "feared". People there know there is no WP:Dispute resolution on that project, no rules against WP:HARASS or WP:OUT, so yes "feared" is a better choice of words, in my opinion. I get nervous just seeing some of you drop in for rare visits on enWP to support each other the way you all collaborate (same peeps years after year) on svWP. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:49, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It would probably be easier for you if you didn't spend your time filling this article with your personal bias and attack people just for being active on svwp. /Grillo (talk) 18:38, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: As a man of many years of (very unpleasant) experience with you, I can't think of anything less interesting to me, nor to this page, than advice like that from you. Gee, I wish you'd stay away, but that's just one man's frightened opinion. Besides, my contributions to this article have been so miniscule that your attack on them seems a waste of time. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 08:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleansing an article about oneself from embarrassing facts

message: This is the parts that are pov, and lack secondary sources and I reverted. This is what I am discussing and opose to (not the plain numbers):"Article Depths are science-mathematical measures on the collaborative quality of all Wikipedia. Swedish Wikipedia is in that sense a total opposite of English Wikipedia. The trend is also very worring..." 
*"The collaborative quality" It could roughly mean comparable wikis could be compared here too. (Built on the same principles.) English and German I think is built by the same principles.there you can estimste maybe like you Think. Swedish and Cebuano are built by the bot principles and can therefor be compared with eachother but not with the English.
*"The trend is also very worring": Says who? Boeing720? An anonymus user on wikipedia?
Keep the discussion to those two things from his edit. (And insert the article depth in the article if you want. Adville (talk) 05:43, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: We are not discussioning from a new point. Se my original post. Compare with the English Wikipedia article. Adville (talk) 19:11, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: We came nowhere. You don't decide, neither do I. I have removed all primary sources for now. But if WP:PRIMARY is to be used, must this include a few concise and "dry" statements. Without the use of any adjectives or adverbs. And an NPOV perspective to be used, all the essential facts or none. Advantages as well as disadvantages. Balance. Boeing720 (talk) 22:22, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't edit disruptive, please. Before you erase that, do it in the article about enwp and see if that is accepted there. Adville (talk) 23:48, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop acting disruptive. This section is for discussing the two things it starts with. Find sources to your personal statement. Do not erase things that have been in the article for ages without concensus (not only your own anger: "he is not doing as I want so I will destroy the article"). Before you destroy this article more, remove the same from sources from the article English Wikipedia and check if that is ok. And remeber: I am not an admin here and we are equal, stop treating me like I'm lower than you, on my talk page. Adville (talk) 05:35, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

text: We were asked to present SECONDARY SOURCES! You havn't ! You are dirsruptive by your refusal to use this talk-page. I will return with a full proposal Boeing720 (talk) 16:55, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Under this headline Only discuss what I Said. Do you not want that start a New headline. You are disruptive and I sånt än admin to look at your pov. Adville (talk) 17:02, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Pov-explanation 

message: *I've fully protected the article for three days. I trust you will be able to come to a compromise in that time? If not I recommend going through WP:DR, WP:3O, or WP:RFC. In any case it would be most unwise to continue edit-warring next week. --John (talk) 20:07, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! I would like someone else to help out here according to the first issue, the pov-pushing. I have no interest to discuss anything more with Boeing, because he does not seem to understand really what I write and what we are discussing. In my eyes he seems to be angry on all Swedish speaking wikipedians. Then it is better a non-swede looks (like the three that agreed with me above). Best regards, Adville (talk) 20:26, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, though it would have been better if it could have been solved without this step. Advice from personal experience; when you have lost the ability to assume good faith in your opponent, when you have started to think of them as an opponent even, it is a good time to walk away. Talking about "POV-pushing" is usually unhelpful; everybody has a point of view and it is only a question of looking at good sources then discussing harmoniously and compromising on how the article reflects them, that is the problem. If editors are honest about their point of view, and can partake in this process in good faith, then a solution can be reached. --John (talk) 21:35, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I am very used to discuss on wikipedia, and knows how it works. When a person adds own opinion (see above) without sources it should be deleted, which I did. But As you can see he did not want to understand, even if I explained several times. However I will answer him below what I think is not so good. Adville (talk) 22:29, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you referring to edits before I asked for admin-help ? IF SO, while I actually used sources (unaware of Wikimedia meta-data possibly is primary), but see how much non-sourced and boasting edits you have made yourself. Not to speak of the manner of using a secondary source in SWEDISH, which doesn't cover your statements. Instead you mix it with well selected parts from Wikimedia. Hoping no native in ENGLISH will notice. That's fraud in my book. We could make a full investigation of that... But instead I urge you to be constructive. Finally. Boeing720 (talk) 01:26, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do. Adville (talk) 04:54, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Protection

message: Adville, John, XXN, —DIYeditor, Dan Koehl, SergeWoodzing - all who have made comments under this section. 
	 
I have first thought of John's question about secondary sources, but all the so far presented such sources =Aftonbladet gives, is a story about "Swedish Wikipedia is growing" (and explanation, but nothing about any figures). Nothing else in the lead is based on secondary sources, as XXN points out that Wikimedia is a primary source. The same goes for links to Swedish Wikipedia's article "Svensk Wikipedia". There is even a different date stated ("possibly 3.May") there. And that article lacks secondary sources for next to everything. And nothing of what has been presented here. I therefore propose a new lead with two parts. First, what can be stated through secondary sources (or at least stands to reason with little doubt). Followed by a part based on Wikimedia's meta-data. Brief , "dry" and without any colouring of the facts. 
The first part is supported by Aftonbladet, a secondary source. No other secondary source has been presented. The second part is taken from Wikimedia's meta-data, which (presumably and according to XXN) is a primary source. Most of our articles on other Wikipedias use Wikimedia meta-data.
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The Swedish Wikipedia (Swedish: "Svensk Wikipedia") is the Swedish-language edition of Wikipedia. Since 2012 it has grown considerably due to the introduction of a bot
It is the third largest Wikipedia by article-count with its  articles. Whilst English Wikipedia has  articles. Swedish Wikipedia's Article Depth is 5.56, which can be compared to English Wikipedia's 1001.99. Article Depth is one of several possible rough indicators of the encyclopedia's collaborative quality, showing how frequently its articles are updated. It does not refer to academic quality. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_article_depth#10_000.2B_articles
The administrators on the Swedish Wikipedia (currently ) are elected for a fixed-term period of one year and have to be re-elected after that time.{{Cite journal|date=2017-10-08|title=Wikipedia:Administratörer|url=https://sv.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrat%C3%B6rer&oldid=41219804|jo
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Comments:
Exact date may be 3.May (as of []) or 20.May - stated here. Hence, I chose "May 2001". The word "currently" may confuse our readers, "As of when ?". (And in any case "It is currently the third largest Wikipedia by article-count with its 3,788,989 current articles..." isn't optimal. If I knew how to update Article Depth, I would have done so. The comments of Article Depth is not mine, but Wikimedia's. The italic style isn't necessary. Also the number of administrators can well be compared to the number here. Naturally can more be added to the first part, if supported by the Aftonbladet article (like explanation what the bots do etc) or by other secondary sources. Boeing720 (talk) 21:36, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I object this part "Article Depth is one of several possible rough indicators of the encyclopedia's collaborative quality", and I have explained 10 times above. Here are the reason (copy/past from my original post, with miss-spellings):"the cause of the lowered article depth is not what Boeing is telling in the text (taken from here). However that explanation is incorrect on Swedish and Cebuano Wikipedia because of user:Lsj and his Lsjbot. (How bots are changing the statistics is discussed on the meta page here). It is not a secret that when svwp hit 1 milion articles 454 000 were created by Lsjbot (see its article), alomost half of the articles had only article depth 1!!! That changes the statistics a lot, but the colaboration and discussions before the project is not visible ther." Adville (talk) 22:37, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I have used an exact quote from Wikimedia. Italic style is, as I wrote, not necessary. Note that Wikimedia states it's not about academic quality. What's the problem with presenting all facts ? If the "bot" creates a large Wiki, but a low Article Depth - so be it. (Off topic, but still, the Article Depth was poor even prior to the bots introduction by 2012; same Wikimedia source)Boeing720 (talk) 23:28, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: What you think is noted. Can you please let other reas and answer. Adville (talk) 04:55, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course. But I would like to point out to you, the (for now) short "secondary based part", can very well be expanded by you. The Aftonbladet article ought to be useful to you there. But don't mix secondary sources with primary and make own conclusions based on a such mix. About the "primary part" - If you don't like the explanation made by Wikimedia, we could instead make a link to Wikimedia. For the explanation of what Article Depth really is. Boeing720 (talk) 13:58, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I can agree with your suggestion so far. What about the claims that Swedish Wikipedia has no dispute resolution, no third opinion assistance, no rules against harassment or outing, can this be confirmed with links? Dan Koehl (talk) 23:29, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Dan, we were supposed to write that svwp had rules about harassment, you wrote that here under. Outing, isn't it rules to not out others on for example Facebook, then you can be blocked for a year, agree discussion on kaw? Svwp has kaw taking care of those brakning the rules (and, yes, there are diferences compared with enwp.) Adville (talk) 23:38, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Full proposal for the lead, some comments

message: When I started write at svWiki 29 September 2002, there were some 120 articles, and six users I could identify, but none of them were active any more.
It may belong to the record that after we started to translate the perl script from sv.wikipedia.com at 22nd of november, and I mailed the translated php file to Brion 30th of November 2002 (diff), who setup the new site at 1st of december, se diff (I've set up a Swedish test site at http://sv.wikipedia.org/ . Please check to make sure everything seems in order. --Brion VIBBER 12:01 Dec 1, 2002 (UTC)).
Already after two days, 24th of november I founded the Thing, in order to have a tool of democrazy.
Already one week later, at 27th of November, we had created 1116  articles, and became the 7th largest Wikipedia, see diff Loggbok (there was many loggbok, but they seem to have deleted most of them... :(  Dan Koehl (talk) 01:10, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing information

message: The line that says " and the lack of proper tools to fight vandalism" is totally wrong, none of us who went over to Wikipedia from susning, really bothered about vandalism, that issue wasnt even discussed, so someone must have misunderstood that part. What happened was that all of a sudden when I was creating the article "Linköpings blodbad" I saw a fast flash of an advertisment banner on the top of the site, that was all. I went angry, discussed the issue with Lars and others, left susning, and within the next week some 10 guys came along, and we started to copy the articles we had written on susning, to Wikipedia. But vandalism was never a subject or reason for the move. Dan Koehl (talk) 00:24, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Errors in the article