Talk:Ivana Miličević/Archive 1

message: Ivana Miličević was born in '74, not '78 as stated in the article... and yes, IMDB is wrong too.  I'm not going to change the article because that would violate WP:NOR, But she graduated high school, in Michigan, in 1991 (1 semester earlier then the rest of her graduating class).  She was 17 when she graduated... thus making it impossible that she was born in 1978.--Isotope23 14:52, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it is you who misunderstand WP:NOR 69.142.21.24... It would have been WP:NOR for me to change it because I saw no source that indicated she graduated in 1974... I just happen to know that she was born in 1974 due to personal experience.  For me to change the article because "I know it is wrong", in absence of any WP:V sourcing that proves 1974 is the correct date, would constitute WP:NOR.  While we are citing guidelines and policies... MySpace accounts are usually not considered reliable sources for purpose of verification, so I would not consider anything on her MySpace account to be useful for verification purposes. I could provide very strong evidence that she was in fact born in 1974... but that would involve pulling out some hard copy sources, scanning them, posting them, etc... thus constituting original research.--Isotope23 13:47, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Birthdate is Wrong

message: I don't think so. She was born in ex-Yugoslavia both her parents being Croatian. They moved and immigrated to America where she was raised and grew up. She can only be an American actress of Croatian descent(ethnic Croat) or Croatian-American actress denoting her ethnicity and her current nationality.
::See the above discussion; this has been exhaustively covered.  She was born in Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina, hence she can be referred to as Bosnian-American. just like someone born to French parents in Wiesbaden, and who later naturalized to America, could be referred to as German-American.  This is a designation of citizenship and national origin, not ethnicity; which is why the fact that she is ethnic Croat is mentioned on the next line.  WP:AGF but what is so freaking hard to understand about that?--208.215.25.131 20:52, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but I don't think so and I can point to you numerous examples on wikipedia where this rule is not followed (see Nikola Tesla, Sinisa Mihajlovic, etc..). Second, she was born in Sarajevo which is Bosnia and Herzegovina but at that time Bosnia-Herzegovina was part of Yugoslavia. Thirdly both her parents are Croats and she as well considers herself to be Croatian(obviously) thus she can only be Croatian-American or an American of Croatian descent. She cannot be Bosnian as she does not live in Bosnia, did not acted or worked in Bosnia and does not considers herself to be "Bosnian" thus effectively all her ties with Bosnia stop with her birtplace. Enough is to say she is an American actress, ethnic Croat and born in Bosnia-Herzegovina. I am asking myself what is so hard to understand about that? Afrika Paprika 22:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosnian Actress? 

message: I think it would make more sense to provide a source saying she isn't an American. She has lived there since she was 5, has lived there for 30 years, has appeared in mostly American movies, and speaks with an American accent. Every source I looked at says she's lived in America since she was 5, what else do you want? --Cúchullain t/c 21:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Comment, "lived in Michigan since she was 5" != American citizenship.  That is an inference.  Anecdotally, I grew up in Michigan and I know plenty of people who have lived here legally for decades without getting citizenship.  I'll mark it as uncited for now since the current citation doesn't establish that she is an American, but since this is a WP:BLP I have to insist you find an actual citation that refers to her as an "American actress" or the information will be removed.  I'm not saying this isn't a likely scenario, but in the case of an encyclopedic article and one that has veered well into WP:LAME territory everything about her hertitage needs to be 100% WP:V sourced.--Isotope23 00:06, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For starters, one doesn't necessarily need citizenship to be an American. But that's besides the point. The real point is, what evidence is there that she's not an American? Is it really that much of an arguable inference to say that someone raised in America, living in America for 30 years, and appearing in American movies is, in fact, an American? The source I included says most of those things, I think you are expecting too much from a source. Again, I think it would make more sense that someone who thinks she's not an American should have to provide the source.--Cúchullain t/c 01:58, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My friend, welcome to hell of the powder-barrel. :-) On Balkan related issues, you need two sources for every sentence if you want your version of the article to stay online for more than an hour :-) --Dijxtra 07:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

text:  Sorry Cúchullain, but that isn't the way it works; the burden of proof is on the person adding the information. WP:RS and WP:V are tantamount here because the whole issue is rather volitile. I don't think it is too much to ask that a source be provided that refers to her as "American".--Isotope23 13:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: American

message: I reverted this because it is redundant with the statement "Born in Sarajevo in modern Bosnia-Herzegovina" and pretty much invites a return to WP:LAME edit war between Bosnian/Croatian/American designation that appears to have ceased only because someone was on a 30 day block.  The best option is to leave the text as "Ivana Miličević (born April 26, 1974) is an actress. Born in Sarajevo in modern Bosnia-Herzegovina, [1][2][3] she is an ethnic Croat. [3][4]  Miličević's family emigrated to the United States when she was 5 years old and she was raised in Michigan.".  It is sourced, factual, and explicitly states her birth/ethnic/national origin while avoiding language that invites more pointless reversions/revisions to an article that has already seen too many.--Isotope23 14:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you completely. I have reverted it to "Bosnian-born actress". I think we can all agree with this and IMO I think it can satisfy both edit-war sides.--Factanista 17:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

text: You are right I am new. You seem to be right...there was quite a lot edit-warring. This guy "Horde Zla" seems to be going around reverting articles to his POV. Also I've looked at some previous people who edit-warred and he seems to have the same style of writing and communicating.--Factanista 14:26, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, to quote Dijxtra above... "My friend, welcome to hell of the powder-barrel."--Isotope23 14:57, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  LOL, well thank you. :) Oh and BTW I reported him....looking at his way of writing and communicating I've noticed extreme similarity, identical even, with the user known as Hahahihihoho (sockpuppet Thunderman) who was banned indef. He seems to be evading the block somehow.--Factanista 15:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, I gave up arguing about it a while ago. I just removed anything unsourced or fix punctuation from poorly done revert warring at this point.  In regards to the user, WP:AGF but there are individuals who have demonstrated a willingness to create sockpuppets to continue their POV pushing after a block or ban.  I won't speculate about this specific situation, but if you notice edits similar to a banned or blocked user, notifying admins is always a good place to start.--Isotope23 15:55, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverted "Bosnian"

message: Thunderman, that line of reasoning has already been followed and disputed.  Ms. Milecevic was born in Sarajevo at a time when Bosnia was not an independant nation and she moved to America before the disolution of Yugoslavia.  You of course can disagree with this, but it is a compelling argument for not calling here Bosnian.  Again, unless you can produce a source that specifically refers to her as "Bosnian" and add a cite to the article, this should not be included in the article as it is already explicitly stated "...born in Sarajevo in modern Bosnia-Herzegovina".--Isotope23 22:34, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Revert again