Talk:Bugatti

message: if you want to say that bugatti was founded in germany, then you have to modify all the articles of all the wikipedia bases concerning the territory of alsace loraine https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace%E2%80%93Lorraine
Quio had its own peculiarities, laws, and governor  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.172.30.238 (talk) 18:21, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that we are at least three to agree, it would be necessary to change German (for the date of creation) by Alsatian (Alsace), which will satisfy everyone! 176.172.30.238 (talk) 19:00, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

text: If it's because of the country racing colours, they were not set in stone in the early days of motor racing. So it's quite possible to have french Bugattis running in white. At no time was Ettore Bugatti based in Germany. --Pc13 14:45, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I also read that Ettore sided with the allies in both wars.  However, the facory was founded before WW I.  Alsace was part of Germany from the Franco-Prussion War to World War I.  So Bugattis were originally German and built by German workers.  One can speculate that he might have chosen Germany because it was so technically advanced, though he must have greatly regretted it later.  I gave the book back to my brother, but here is a link that says the Molsheim factory was founded in 1909.  
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article?tocId=9358237&query=arco%20branquial&ct=
"Molsheim" even sounds German, as Alsace is a natively German speaking area.
Maybe, besides nationalistic reasons to forget, there might not be any cars surviving from the German period.
--David R. Ingham 22:04, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

text: Yes, there are surviving early cars.  I found a reference on the official Bugatti site to the fact that the factory was considered to be in Germany in 1910.  I didn't know this, but I feel that the matter is settled and that you are correct.  --SFoskett 13:46, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
Buggati was a German brand and Mr. Ettore Bugatti had worked at Deutz in Cologne
It is funny, because I've heard people argue the cars are French, Italian, and German.  Maybe Italian is the most fair considering the man was Italian and just happened to setup his manufacturing operation in Molsheim, whose ever flag it was under before and whoever it is under now, means little actually.  Will the Germans lay claim to Bugatti because they simply ruled that town?  Will the French lay claim to Bugatti because they ended up with the city after the War?  I guess we'd have to ask Bugatti what he felt the "nationality" of his cars were, but somehow I think he'd care less than the French and Germans on here apparently do. :)  71.106.175.177 07:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

text: If it was Italian they would have been red and not blue. it's like saying chevrolet is a french car. Gzuckier 15:08, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree, with all your agruments if you write on wikipedia that DuPont is a French company, just because it was created by a Frenchman :) 176.172.30.238 (talk) 18:13, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

text: the "new" plant in Italy was new 20 years ago. Nearly 10 years ago Bugatti was bought by Volkswagen (German), they built their new (and current) prodution plant in Molsheim (French). So whatever Bugatti is, it is not Italian (anymore).--84.170.236.219 23:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK then, anyway, it was not Italian in the 1920's and 1930's. I thought they still operated the plant in Italy too, but obviously I was wrong. John Anderson 01:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I found in an old MotorTrend article that Rimac, a Croatian company, took a 55% share in Bugatti about a year and a half ago, with VAG unit, Porsche, holding the other 45%. Radwriter (talk) 18:43, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: this discussion makes no sense, we do not define the nationalities of companies by their shareholders. it's stupid! or we will have to change the nationalities of MANY companies on wiki including American companies. 176.172.30.238 (talk) 18:46, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

text: I dunno why there is such a ridiculous resistance to accuracy. It is a FACT that the Automobile was founded in a place that was part of Germany. Maybe it is desputable to say "German automobile" but that doesn't mean the birthplace country's name should be banned from the intro - doing that is beyond ridiculous and absurd! Loginnigol (talk) 08:59, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  German 

message: Bugatti was German at first, then in its days of glory in the Grand Prix races between the world wars, it was French, because Alsace where the factory was located was given over from Germany to France following the First World War. The marque did not survive the Second World War, but when it was revived decades later, the new plant was built in Italy. Therefor, now Bugatti is an Italian car. But when displaying lists of Grand Prix Motor Racing of the 1930s and 1920s, it ought to be represented by a French flag. John Anderson 21:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: the "new" plant in Italy was new 20 years ago. Nearly 10 years ago Bugatti was bought by Volkswagen (German), they built their new (and current) prodution plant in Molsheim (French). So whatever Bugatti is, it is not Italian (anymore).--84.170.236.219 23:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK then, anyway, it was not Italian in the 1920's and 1930's. I thought they still operated the plant in Italy too, but obviously I was wrong. John Anderson 01:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I found in an old MotorTrend article that Rimac, a Croatian company, took a 55% share in Bugatti about a year and a half ago, with VAG unit, Porsche, holding the other 45%. Radwriter (talk) 18:43, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: this discussion makes no sense, we do not define the nationalities of companies by their shareholders. it's stupid! or we will have to change the nationalities of MANY companies on wiki including American companies. 176.172.30.238 (talk) 18:46, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

text: I dunno why there is such a ridiculous resistance to accuracy. It is a FACT that the Automobile was founded in a place that was part of Germany. Maybe it is desputable to say "German automobile" but that doesn't mean the birthplace country's name should be banned from the intro - doing that is beyond ridiculous and absurd! Loginnigol (talk) 08:59, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: German first, then French, 
now
 later Italian, now French again

message: Due to some research after magnesium I found the following about Bugatti. Maybe it is interesting for this article? I didn't know where to insert this in this article, so I put it here, hoping someone else likes to insert it in an "advanced materials" section. Magnesium was used in vehicles since 1921. Often it was found as mass production magnesium parts in the engine part, but sometimes also elsewhere. "Even in the car body extruded u- and angle profiles were often used to build frames which were then covered with Mg sheets. Examples are German bus trailers and a prototype of Bugatti (Type 57C Atlantic) both build in 1928". (citation of Automotive Applications of Magnesium and its Alloys, by C. Blawert, N. Hort, K.U. Kainer, in Trans. Indian Inst. Met., vol 57, no. 4, august 2004, pp. 397-408. Since using magnesium for car body applications receives nowadays a lot of interest, among others due to CAFE-regulations, it might be interesting that Bugatti did something like it already in the late 20s. Bye, SietskeEN 10:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advanced materials in Bugatti 

message: Project Lydia was scrapped a long time ago and will not be produced. Can I delete this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.24.113.24 (talk) 01:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project Lydia 

message: The intro doesn't make sense or is at least confusing. If the brand failed with the onset of WWII it can't have struggled into the 1960s. Can someone fix this? Prego. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:47, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed... continued into 1960s

message: This is the lede for your second paragraph:
"The original company is legendary for producing some of the most exclusive cars in the world as well as some of the fastest."
Exactly what is an exclusive car?  Perhaps a car that only permits certain people to drive it.  There are other problems with this sentence, but they are too convoluted to diagram here.  I suggest a re-write like this:  "The original Bugatti company was legendary for producing some of the most expensive and powerful cars in the world."  You have researched the year the company was founded.  Use it to better effect, like this:  "From 1909 to 1963, the legendary Bugatti company produced some of the most expensive and powerful cars in the world."  
Cars are not fast or slow.  They can't move without human control. Races are fast. Timed performances are fast.  But a racing car is described in terms of its engine power, and then indications can be given about its potential speed.  Writing about how fast a car is makes this article read like it was written by a child.  
The entire article needs re-written, but please consider starting here.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.197.110 (talk) 15:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you make a good point. You're always welcome to fix writing that needs tweaking. I suspect exclusive also refers to a limited production of stylish cars. There are other companies that make expensive and powerful cars. Bugatti is known for its niche of exclusive cars, available only to those with the money and desire from something unusual. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:32, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad writing 

message: "Possibly the greatest achievement to be seen from Bugatti" WOOOOOOW A BLUE ONE! This needs to be removed or rewritten.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.80.64.71 (talk) 22:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Bad Writing 

message: Im not sure if its a good idea to merge these articles, because they have only a common name. We should check how other similar cases have been made here, any similar reborn car brands? --Typ932 T·C 07:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Maybach has only has one article. Ch Th Jo (talk) 06:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

text: I think we should merge the articles because it's too confusing like this. It will be easier to browse. Everything will be easier if the articles are merged. Thumbs up from me (Wiki id2 (talk) 17:51, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. Two completely different companies, one merely purchased, over fifty years after the original icon was created, the right to call the Veyron a Bugatti. The only thing the two companies share is the word Bugatti. It don't even see it as remotely confusing. The correctly written hatnote at the top of the page should make it perfectly clear which is which. --Falcadore (talk) 12:28, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Oppose - having a different article for the historic Bugatti and for the current French subsidiary of Volkswagen AG seems a good idea to me. I don't think it is confusing. Hektor (talk) 10:24, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you support Bugatti Automobili SpA as a part of the current article but feel Bugatti SAS should be excluded? If you write a third article for Bugatti Automobili SpA, shouldn't you/we also author a bunch of separate articles for the ownership under Hispano-Suiza, Snemca and Messier?  Ch Th Jo (talk) 06:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

text: I dont see it as good idea, for the reasons told above, its like giving old merit to totally new company, which only uses Bugatti name to gain something. --Typ932 T·C 12:26, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Support Merger - Whatever happens, we need to apply the logic fully, not partially as we have in the discussion so far. There is a third entity, Bugatti_Automobili_SpA which is mentioned in this article. Currently the term 'Bugatti_Automobili_SpA' is a re-direct to this article. Why does Bugatti Automobili SpA not have it's own article? Additionally, If you don't support merging because of the current ownership, then there should be separate articles for each owner throughout history, giving us SIX articles total. That's not wrong or bad - it is a possible solution - but arguing in favor of one article about Bugatti and Bugatti Automobili SpA (and the other owners) but having a second article solely about Bugatti SAS is kind of kooky. If you don't support merger because VW owns the current incarnation of the company, then shouldn't all the information about ownership by Hispano-Suiza, Snemca and Messier also be purged from this article?  Maybach, like Bugatti, ceased to be, was later revived and has only one article in Wikipedia. I don't think three or six separate articles about the Bugatti brand is very friendly to readers who know nothing or very little and want to learn more. I'd like it to be as easy as possible to learn about any subject in Wikipedia, including the whole history of Bugatti, including all three incarnations that manufactured cars and the other owners that didn't manufacture Bugatti cars and I don't think creating -six- articles, one for each owner, supports ease of use. In my opinion, if the article is titled simply "Bugatti" then it really needs to be a comprehensive overview of the entire -brand- including all ownership eras - Bugatti, Hispano-Suiza, Snemca, Messier, SpA and SAS. (Another way to look at it - There's already a large amount of information about SAS and the Veyron in this article, so we aren't really "merging" the articles, we'd just be expanding the existing SAS section in this article, then eliminating the SAS article, making it a re-direct to Bugatti.) Ch Th Jo (talk) 06:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "Why does Bugatti Automobili SpA not have it's own article?"  because nobody has made such article, Im really against the merge, because these are really different cars, not comparable for instance Jaguar which has been made continously only ownership has changed, Bugatti is just brand that was bought afterwards. --Typ932 T·C 15:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  merging proposal of Bugatti articles 

message: Founder Justin Roeder was born in Milan, Italy, and the automobile company that bears his name was founded in 1909.
This "Justin Roeder" is mentioned in many previous versions of this page, but I can see no other references on the web to anyone of this name who has anything to do with Bugatti.  Also, surely, it is Ettore Bugatti's name that the automobile company bears?
I would be bold and change it to Ettore Bugatti, but the history of edits that keep the Justin Roeder name in the article make me wonder if I am missing something.  Vandalism, or something else?.  Traced it back to an edit on 2010-02-12 and it does appear to be vandalism - changing it back to Ettore Bugatti.  --nonky 21:15, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Justin Roeder? 

message: I believe that the article Bugatti should be merged into Bugatti Automobiles. I do believe that Bugatti should have a redirect to Bugatti Automobiles founding in 1909 and then add the information to it. It just makes it all simpler. The name Bugatti, along with Bugatti Automobili SpA should redirect to Bugatti Automobiles. As Automobiles refer to cars. (Wiki id2)
I Agree Dgn1234 (talk) 16:16, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Should not be merged, its fine now -->Typ932 T·C 12:22, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger into Bugatti Automobiles 

message: In a line I just deleted from the article it said that 7900 Bugattis were built 1909-1947 of which 2000 survived. But I remember having read in a book sometime (not in my possession anymore) that about 8000 were made and that 4000 survived. I can find no definitive number, so I decided to leave it out (and to move the figure of 8000 to the lead). Mark in wiki (talk) 11:17, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers built 

message: a bugattti is the fastest car in the world suckers  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.168.241.4 (talk) 17:58, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 March 2014 

message: I reverted the edits that changed the sentence "Today, the name is owned by [..] Volkswagen" into "Today, its successor Bugatti Automobiles is still based in Molsheim but is now owned by [..] Volkswagen".
To me the word "successor" is ambiguous. In what way did they succeed the original company? In a legal sense, in its public image? I feel it might be more accurate to call the firm Messier-Bugatti-Dowty the successor. And according to Bugatti Automobiles the only connection with the old firm was that Volkswagen bought the right to produce cars under the trade name.
Further, I feel that "still based in Molsheim" is a confusing phrase, because it might imply that Bugattis have been built there more or less continuously from 1945 until 1989, which is incorrect. Cars with the name Bugatti have also been built in for instance Campogalliano. Mark in wiki (talk) 09:32, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Successor 

message: Bugatti was the first company to design the Veyron.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.68.6.192 (talk) 16:33, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Veyron

message: I want to fix a grammar error.
RonanHi (talk) 18:32, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not the right page to request additional user rights.If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". - Arjayay (talk) 19:34, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2016 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :es:wiktionary:buga says that the Spanish jargon term buga, "car", comes from Bugatti. 
If somebody can get reliable references (hard to find with jargon), it should be added in the article.
--Error (talk) 19:35, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buga 

message: It should says is instead of was as the company still exists as part of Volkswagen 24.97.253.174 (talk) 16:04, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is about the historic car marque that is defunct since 1963. Mark in wiki (talk) 16:58, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Additionally, the opening paragraph mentions Volkswagen.  RudolfRed (talk) 17:57, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 February 2017 

message: Could somebody add the Start date and age template from "| foundation = {Start date|1909}" to "| foundation = {Start date and age|1909}"?
 173.73.227.128 (talk) 02:30, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Done DRAGON BOOSTER  ★ 08:20, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 March 2017 

message: The article says things like "Italian entrepreneur Romano Artioli acquired the Bugatti brand in 1987" and "Volkswagen AG acquired the Bugatti brand in 1998" without indicating from whom the rights were acquired (and "for how much", though this information might be not available). 93.185.30.72 (talk) 08:44, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article is weird as it omits key facts about Bugatti 

message: The word "constructor" should probably be "builder." My guess is that someone made a literal translation from French, where "constructeur" is the standard term for "builder" of automobiles. Twarger (talk) 18:54, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Done  Thank you for you good eye. Happy editing! Dolotta (talk) 19:16, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2018 

message: in key people add carlo bugatti Burgrplayz3 (talk) 00:12, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 00:18, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2022 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Bugatti Automobiles which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 17:31, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: Payata km 660 2407:C00:6005:D365:1:0:F267:56D3 (talk) 15:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speed 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. There is a rough consensus against moving this page. Splitting the articles into three is outside of the scope of this RM, and should be discussed in another thread. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks 20:20, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 13 May 2023 

message: Bugatti engine bays did not feature guilloche, the proper name is "perlage" it's a simple mistake, but they are completely different finishes with different purposes. Thefruityloop (talk) 19:23, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Engine bay design detail is incorrect