Talk:Languages of the Philippines/Archive 1

message: *THIS IS THE ORIGINAL , THE OTHER WEBSITES COPIED FROM THIS.--Jondel 08:18, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright

message: The eleventh paragraph now contains the acknowledgement.--Jondel 06:36, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: REF3

message: * Languages of the Philippines - Parts (contributed by Jondel) of the first edit from last few paragraphs of  and more recent edits taken ones from  . -- Netoholic @ 07:02, 2004 Sep 16 (UTC)
:The wikipedia version is the original. The other sites copied from wikipedia.--Jondel 08:13, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Languages of the Philippines. There is evidence that both external sites copied from us. Lupo 12:48, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

text: This isn't a copyvio. --seav 15:21, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

text: Changes and acknowledgements were made at the copyright violating embrace website. Please remove the copyright violation.--Jondel 01:28, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

text: I now have an e-mail from the embrace webmaster. If you look at the same webpage above there is acknowledgements to wikipedia.--Jondel 05:11, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

text: Please read this.--Jondel 06:43, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  from [[Wikipedia:Copyright problems]] 

message: I'm not sure if this is the correct place to address this.  I noticed that Visayan redirected to Cebuano language, so I changed it to redirect to a new Visayan languages article I made, which needs to be expanded upon. But it's a start. I did the same for Bisaya and Binisaya. 
I also renamed the Bicolano page as Bikol language. I also changed this on the pages that linked to Bicolano.
The Philippine language articles need a lot of fixing, and I'll get around to doing them in my spare time.  If anyone's curious, I've been studying Philippine languages for several years and I could consult linguists specializing in Philippine languages in case I don't have the answer. So if you have a question concerning Philippine languages, feel free to reach me on my talk page. 
--Chris 21:59, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes - Visayan & Bikol 

message: Note: The original contents were transferred to Talk:Spanish in the Philippines--Jondel 05:50, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Debate on the History of the Spanish language in the Philippines

message: I would like to migrate pertinent discussions on Spanish to the Spanish in the Philippines if it is ok with everyone. --Jondel 02:07, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussions were transferred to Talk:Spanish in the Philippines.--Jondel 05:52, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Spanish

message: I suggest that we place codes eg, Tg for Tagalog Tagalog words at the 1st column and allow False Friends from the other languages. However, I think there is nobody who knows the other languages that well to place other ff aside from Tagalog. e.g. A Cebuano false friend word that can be found in Ilocano, etc. even if non-existant in Tagalog.--Jondel 8 July 2005 07:47 (UTC)
:I suggest getting rid of this False Friends chart all together and perhaps relegate it to the separate languages. What would be much more useful is a sample sentence or two in different Philippine languages so the layperson could compare the various languages. --Chris 8 July 2005 07:56 (UTC)
Or maybe remove the table format? There is a lot of space consumed by the empty columns of non relevant languages. I 'll try to create one here. I think I can significanly reduce the whole thing.--Jondel 8 July 2005 08:02 (UTC)
:Just remove the whole thing all together. I gave it some more thought and it definitely does not belong on this page. It has the potential to become a large article. There is a List of false friends for English. That can give you an idea as to how to the format.  Then the page could be named something like List of false friends in Philippine languages or List of false friends in Tagalog or something. --Chris 8 July 2005 16:59 (UTC)
::Is there a way to put a section into a vote for deletion or not? I think this list is useful and I believe the list won't go very long for quite some time, so transferring it to another article might not be the right time. I have added a couple of words that are false friends among Ilonggo and Cebuano, although it is difficult to find someone who knows both a northern Philippine language and a Visayan one. Knowledge of two or more Visayan languages (especially Kinaray-a and Ilonggo; Cebuano and Ilonggo; Cebuano and Waray) is common. Anyhow, false friends are important in the Philippine context because some people who know only Tagalog believe they can include all words from Cebuano, Ilonggo, etc. and be part of the "Filipino language". Most of us know this is not feasible. However, false friends even make the matter worse. If one says "taga-bukid", will that now mean "from the farm" or "from the mountains"? Should "pagong" have the meaning of both turtle and frog? How do we disambiguate? Of course we know that this proposal is kind of far-fetched, but it helps that people know more and that they are different languages, not just dialects. Furthermore, one can be easily misunderstood. --Wng July 9, 2005 03:39 (UTC)
:::If this list is to say, then maybe it should be put, as User:Jondel proposes, into a more manageable form. I agree, it's important. But my concern is that it's going to keep on getting bigger and bigger. It's like in the Tagalog article, some anonymous people keep on putting all sorts of words in the words of foreign origin chart or they just keep on putting all sorts of phrases under common phrases. That could happen here. Actually, it will.  We just have to keep it manageable and not let it detract from the point of the whole article. So yeah, if we're going to keep it... Please at least change the format.
:::Now, here are some false friends I know ... In Kapampangan there's asapu ke ing bola king lalam ning tete (I caught the ball under the bridge). To a Tagalog speaker, this sounds gross. Same goes for Ilokano's agbayag nga agpapukis.  Then there's langgam which means bird (Cebuano) or ant (Tagalog). And also Tagalog ibon (bird) and Kapampangan ebun (egg).  Kayat means want in Ilokano and fuck in Cebuano. --Chris 9 July 2005 05:29 (UTC)
What does agbayag nga agpapukis mean?.--Jondel 02:13, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It means (He) will take a long time to get a haircut or something along those lines.--443 15:53, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: False Friends , Tagalog only?

message: This section is being editted from time.--Jondel 8 July 2005 08:13 (UTC)
*bukid(from Tagalog), field (farm) in Tagalog(Tg), hill/mountain in Cebuano(Cb) and Waray-Waray(Ww) .
*gamot(from Tg), medicine(Tg), roots of plants (Cb & Ww).
*gubat (all from Tagalog unless otherwise stated), forest(Tg), battle/war(Cb)
*habol, forest
:How about a simple list. Something like:  Bukid: field (Tagalog), mountain (Visayan languages). --Chris 9 July 2005 05:33 (UTC)
Agreed! --Jondel 00:29, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest we use SIL or ISO 639-2 codes so we do not need to create another standard. Perhaps SIL is better because some Philippine languages do not have ISO 639-2 codes yet. --Wng 02:16, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
Agreed.--Jondel 02:21, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

text: We tried to put it in a table before and it would get horribly large and unmanageable.--Jondel 14:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe so. Could it really be worse than it is now? --Storkk 11:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal for False Friend

message: This is IMHO unreadable, and horribly formatted. Maybe put it in a table, or find another way to present the information. --Storkk 12:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We tried to put it in a table before and it would get horribly large and unmanageable.--Jondel 14:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe so. Could it really be worse than it is now? --Storkk 11:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup tag

message: Please cite sources about movements to pro-nationalism/Filipino movements through Spanish language media by the government or Filipino nationalistic movements. The current mainstream opinion is that it is colonialistic . What does the Filipino government say about the Spanish language?  I myself will try to do research on this.--Jondel 03:40, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 1987 constitution says that Spanish, along with Arabic, are "to be promoted on a voluntary and optional basis." --Chris S. 05:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: ok(and so we revert my revert)--Jondel 12:38, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nationalism in Spanish

message: It seems nothing here directly pertains to the article's theme.  I do not have any academic background on linguistics or Philippine languages in particular, so I am not sure if there is some significant contribution or occurrence of the Japanese language(s) in the Philippines that should be included in the article.
Bahaw 05:47, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the Japanese are one of the ethnic groups that make up the Philippines.. Thus the Japanese language would be spoken by some Japanese-Filipinos still as a home language but it is probably spoken most by Japanese tourists or recent arrivals in the country and not by people of Japanese heritage. Furthermore, the estimates on the number of Japanese-heritage people would be unclear since after World War Two, many who previously claimed Japanese ancestry would've chosen to conceal their Japanese identity for fear of retribution or discrimination. The Japanese started coming to the Philippines in significant numbers in the late 19th century and Davao, Mindanao is the part of the country with a huge Japanese-Filipino population. Si lapu lapu (talk) 16:10, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese section 

message: Hi all,
I am a graduate from the University of San Carlos, and I assure you, I don't know any Spanish. It is not required for USC students; for some degrees, yes, but nothing more than a foreign language. --Bentong Isles 09:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish required in USC? 

message: I have moved the following item here from the External Links section:
* The Philippine National Language Policy Frequently Asked Questions
From what I can tell, this item is not what it is represented to be. The publisher is a subdomain of http://pbwiki.com. pbwiki.com declares itself to be a "Collaboration for over 20,000 businesses". The subdomain, page titled "Who prepared this FAQ?", begins as follows: "This FAQ is primarily maintained by Vincent Isles , a professional teacher and a people empowerment advocate. I am a member of The DILFED Forum <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DILFED>, a former member of the SOLFED Foundation, Inc. <http://www.solfedinc.com/>, and a frequent visitor of the Defend the Indigenous Languages of the Archipelago (DILA) Forum <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DILA>."
This appears to be a link to a POV advocacy site, masquerading as a link to a site with an official list of Philippine National Language Policy Frequently Asked Questions. -- Boracay Bill 01:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed an External Links section entry 

message: (d) Philippine languages — refers to the indigenous languages of the Philippines, including the national language and the regional and local languages. 
:Filipino along with Bikol and Rinconada Bikol terms should be removed in False Friends section.
(e) Regional language — refers to the lingua franca or the commonly spoken language of a region.  
:While Pangasinan and Kapampangan, the second most spoken language in Ilocos and Central Luzon regions, respectively, are recognized language, Albay Bikol is not.     
(f) Major language — refers to a language spoken and used by at least one-fiftieth (1/50) or two percent (2%) of all Filipinos, based on the most recent available data of the National Census Office.  
:Two percent is roughly 1.8 milion. This means Albay Bikol is a major language while Kinaray-A and Chavacano are not. --Filipinayzd (talk) 15:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I found these [http://www.chanrobles.com/republicactno7104.htm here] 

message: 'Pirmi' in many Visayan languages means 'always' which has a different words in modern Spanish. If it is of any importance, 'ferme' from latin means 'almost always'. Maybe in ancient times in the Philippines, Spanish used 'ferme or some similar word. hmmm....--Jondel (talk) 08:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pirmi

message: Two paragraphs of this article's National and official languages section asserted:
* In the initial sentence, what language is meant by the words "national language"? The Filipino language did not exist in 1940, so it cannot be that. According to the 1935 constitution, in effect at the time, the Philippines then had no national language. 
* The second clause of the initial sentence makes the unsupported implied assertion that Tagalog was made an official language sometime around July 4, 1946. Article XIV, Section 3 of the 1935 constitution reads: "The Congress shall take steps toward the development and adoption of a common national language based on one of the existing native languages. Until otherwise provided by law, English and Spanish shall continue as official languages.", so congress did have the power to change the official languages by passing a law. I have looked here and here, which covers up to some time in 1947, without finding such a law. If Tagalog was made an official language, how did that occur?
* The second sentence in the first paragraph says that the national language came to be known as Filipino rather than as Tagalog beginning in 1961. In this paper, I read that Tagalog was renamed Wikang Pambansa by President Manuel L. Quezon in l939, and that "Wikang Pambansa" translates to "National Language".  Renaming the language, however, is not the same thing as making it a de-jure national language. The paper goes on to say that the language named "Wikang Pambansa" was further renamed as "Pilipino" in 1959.
* Article XV, Section 3 of the 1973 constitution reads:
::(1) This Constitution shall be officially promulgated in English and in Pilipino, and translated into each dialect spoken by over fifty thousand people, and into Spanish and Arabic. In case of conflict, the English text shall prevail.
::(2) The National Assembly shall take steps towards the development and formal adoption of a common national language to be known as Filipino.
::(3) Until otherwise provided by law, English and Pilipino shall be the official languages.
:This refers to the "Pilipino" language by its then-official name, rather than as "Tagalog", and introduces mention of a to-be-developed national language named "Filipino".
*Article XIV, Section 6 of the 1987 constitution says: "The national language of the Philippines is Filipino. As it evolves, it shall be further developed and enriched on the basis of existing Philippine and other languages. As I understand, then, the Philippines had no de-jure national language until the 1987 constitution was ratified on February 2, 1987.
*The second paragraph quoted above refers to the "Pilipino" language by the misnomer "Filipino" -- see subsection (3) requoted above.
I have rewritten these two paragraphs as one single paragraph stating essentially the information presented above. I have also tagged the assertion in the preceeding paragraph that "Ultimately, Tagalog was chosen as the base language December 31, 1937." with a  tag. 
As an aside, I wonder whether or not the renaming of Tagalog to Wikang Pambansa and then to Pilipino was ever officially undone? Is the language often mentioned as "Tagalog" still officially named "Pilipino" inside the RP? -- Boracay Bill (talk) 02:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  National language 

message: see Chris S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Filipinayzd (talk • contribs) 15:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted entries in False friends section 

message: why is the Chavacano language included in the "Main Foreign Languages"? it is NOT Foreign!!
this must be corrected... Chavacano is a not a Foreign Language!! Chavacano was actually born here in the Philippines in the year 1635, specifically in the Fort of Pilar, City of Zamboanga... the time, where Mindanao is not yet part of the Philippine republic, while Zamboanga is trying to attain in having its own republic....Muchisimas Gracias!=)--Acer Cyle (talk) 05:20, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Right you are brother. Besides, the Zamboanga Dialect is not the only dialect of Chavano that is present in the country. There is a dialect called Teranteño which has a substrate of Tagalog and the now extinct Ermitaño. They all developed in the country, even though the vocabulary is strikingly Romance. 61.9.13.66 (talk) 14:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: PORQUE YA INCLUI EL CHAVACANO NA MAGA IDIOMA ESTRANJEROS?

message: I have coded "Awat ka didto sa plasa?" (Gubat, Southern Sorsogon; Gubat, Sorsogon) as bik since it wasn't clear to me which of the bik family is spoken in Gubat. Rich Farmbrough, 10:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: lang code