Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/France- and French-related articles

message: The standard (here) differs from the pattern used for all other railway stations, and is widely disregarded for French stations. I therefore propose a revised standard, more in line with practices for other countries.
# Some stations are known by established common names. This includes Gare d'Austerlitz, Gare de Bercy, Gare de l'Est, Gare de Lyon, Gare Montparnasse. Gare du Nord, Gare Saint-Lazare, Gare de la Bastille, Gare d'Orsay, Charles de Gaulle–Étoile, Châtelet–Les Halles. [There may be a few others to be added to this list]
#Other station articles should be titled "xxxx station". Where disambiguation is necessary, a suffix can be added e.g. to distinguish Luxembourg station (in Luxembourg City) from Luxembourg station (Paris)
#Where a station serves two communities, the two should be separated by an unspaced endash (e.g. Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines–Montigny-le-Bretonneux station or Mitry–Claye station
#Where a station is one of several serving a city, the qualifier should be preceded by an unspaced hyphen (e.g. Versailles-Rive-Droite station, Versailles-Chantiers station.
Comments please. Colonies Chris (talk) 15:26, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks plausible.  But I'd like to see a substantial list of examples of where this proposal would lead to changes.  Dicklyon (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: See the subcategories of , and , I'd say it's about a thousand articles. I agree with moving the articles to an English title, I don't think "gare de" makes sense to most users of English Wikipedia, and apart from some well known stations like the main terminuses in Paris, they're not known under their French name in English. Markussep Talk 08:57, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

text: As for the exceptions, I agree that Gare d’Austerlitz (for example) is common in English, but I can’t see why using the official name ("Paris-Austerlitz railway station, commonly called Gare d’Austerlitz…") would be unreasonable, and it would have the advantage of consistency. Moonraker12 (talk) 22:34, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: This change to the naming guideline was agreed after discussion, as you can see above. I see you have renamed dozens of station. Please cease. If you wish to reopen the discussion, you may do so, of course, but you may not reverse the agreed changes. I will take action to get you blocked if necessary. Colonies Chris (talk) 10:16, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

text: Does everyone agree that "X station" and "X railway station" are both more appropriate than "Gare de X", that "X station" is the short-term status quo but a change to "X railway station" merits serious consideration, and that reverting to "Gare de X" would not be a positive step at this point? Certes (talk) 13:54, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: A fair summary. In the meantime, I will ask admins to revert all of Captain Scarlet's renamings. Colonies Chris (talk) 15:46, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

text: I'd also like to point out that Captain scarlet's renaming frenzy shows a lack of understanding of French - for example renaming Le Grand Jardin station as Gare Le Grand Jardin is both a contravention of the naming guideline and incorrect French (see fr:Gare_du_Grand-Jardin). Colonies Chris (talk) 16:01, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming of French railway station articles 

message: I've noted that a multitude of French railway-station articles have been established with obviously wrong features. It's a great pity they weren't done with regard to en.WP's style guide: please no French flag in the infobox; "located" is used without purpose; common terms are wrongly linked; "high-speed" lacks the hyphen; and range dashes are wrongly open rather than closed. Sigh. Tony (talk) 08:36, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style problems 

message: Following on the above discussions, I propose that articles on tram stops follow the format "X tram stop." This matches the usage in the UK and is a natural disambiguator. I'm aware of the 52 articles in :Category:Tramway de Bordeaux; there may be others. Mackensen (talk) 23:00, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming of tram stops 

message: WP:MOSFR seems to be missing any guidance (or even mention) of the most glaring stylistic difference between English and French Wikipedias: the hyphenation of compound first names. In French, we see a lot of compound first names; on the English Wikipedia they generally (or at least frequently) are split into two unhyphenated names.
* :fr:Louis-Joseph de Vendôme, :en:Louis Joseph, Duke of Vendôme
* :fr:Marie-Thérèse Geoffrin, :en:Marie Thérèse Geoffrin
* :fr:Marie-Louise Mignot, :en:Marie Louise Mignot
* :fr:Guy-Auguste de Rohan-Chabot, :en:Guy Auguste de Rohan-Chabot
* :fr:Marie-Isabelle de Rohan, :en:Marie Isabelle de Rohan, Duchess of Tallard
* :fr:Hercule-Mériadec de Rohan-Soubise, :en:Hercule Mériadec, Duke of Rohan-Rohan
* :fr:Anne-Marie-Louise de La Tour d'Auvergne, :en:Anne Marie Louise de La Tour d'Auvergne
Personally I think the current style (the gratuitous splitting in two) is misleading and goes against the principle of minimal change. There are probably some people known by significantly different names in English versus French, and English Wikipedia should use the "English name" in such cases — but I don't think that names should be "Anglicized" simply by removing hyphens, because that doesn't do anything to decrease confusion, and in fact increases my own confusion about what the person's name actually is!
Could any experienced Wikipedian summarize English Wikipedia's current style for names-that-are-hyphenated-in-French?
Would there be appetite to change the current style to prefer keeping the hyphens — and then rename the above English Wikipedia articles? --Quuxplusone (talk) 12:16, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I have doubts that this is the "current style". Counterexamples would be Jean-Paul Belmondo and Jean-Claude Van Damme. Anyone up to provide some data? Paradoctor (talk) 12:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

text: My first reaction is not to hyphenate. We don't hyphenate German street names, so ... Tony (talk) 07:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Karl-Marx-Allee. Paradoctor (talk) 12:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: German street names are hyphenated according to rules. From what I see in :Category:Streets in Munich and :Category:Streets in Berlin, we follow those, too. I don't see any reason not to spell French first names as they do, as we do with buildings like Notre-Dame de Paris or Opéra de Monte-Carlo. The spelling of our article Académie Française is a mystery (note the correct Bibliothèque nationale de France – also the dog's breakfast in :Category:French orchestras). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hyphenated first-middle names?