Talk:West Side Story (1961 film)

message: The article states: 
"Onstage, the walls and lights of New York City fade away as the Jets and Sharks dance together without fear or hatred."
I don't doubt you (I never saw the stage version), but since this vision of harmony doesn't fit with the plot or theme of the show, I'm curious when in the stage production this happens, and why. 
66.26.79.152 01:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From memory those words are stage directions in the book of the show. It does fit exactly with the plot and theme of the show, as a wish/dream expressed clearly in the song "Somewhere". --Hugh7 (talk) 22:32, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Author: please clarify

message: Several words have been changed in the song, presumbably to suit film classification requirements. The words "bastard" and "S.O.B." have been replaced by references to domestic violence. "Schmuck" is replaced by "slob". --Hugh7 (talk) 22:54, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: "Officer Krupke" bowdlerised

message: :Image:West Side Story Poster.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:29, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:West Side Story Poster.gif

message: Though seen as progressive when it first came out, this movie is now highly contested by activists, scholars and others who feel there are some covertly racist, or at the least naively ignorant, implications put forth in the film.  Not least of the issues is that the "Puerto Ricans" were mostly white people in dark makeup, which should remind people a little bit of minstrelsy.
I can dig up the academic arguments to cite if I have spare time but people should be at least a little bit aware of this.VatoFirme (talk) 19:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is one of the most one-sided (almost an advertisement) for the film.  It was not universally praised, and is not so today.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Furbucket2016 (talk • contribs) 00:53, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Perhaps you could provide some reliable secondary sources that discuss these aspects? No Wikipedia article is perfect, and providing such sources is one of the best ways to encourage improvements in areas where it is deficient. PS. It is usually not a good idea to post your comments in a ten year old thread if you want other editors to notice it. --Xover (talk) 06:46, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: No criticism or controversy?

message: I have added this tag to the very top of the page. Cheers! Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: {{tl|Skiptotoctalk}}

message: More recently I read an interesting article on In-70mm where original 70mm six-track magnetic has been found and restoring the film to its road show event that hasn’t been heard since 1961.
Site link to article    
http://www.in70mm.com/news/2010/wss/index.htm  —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBListening (talk • contribs) 20:54, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Original 6-track Mix Recovered and Restored for West Side Story

message: "The character of Ice [Tucker Smith], who is actually written for the movie, was originally named Diesel in the stage show. However, both Diesel and Ice appear in the original novel."
WHAT original novel? There is no source novel associated with WSS as far as I can determine.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aileron Spades (talk • contribs) 00:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Only if Romeo and Juliet has a character named "Diesel". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:28, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In the Bonanza HS library, Las Vegas, NV, I had to read the novel of West Side Story. The book is still there, if anybody cares. http://www.amazon.com/West-Side-Story-Irving-Shulman/dp/0671725661/ref=sr_1_3_title_0_main?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291839597&sr=1-3 There's Amazon's webpage for selling the novel. Apple8800 (talk) 20:20, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The link states that the novelization is based on the stage play. It's possible they incorporated some elements of the film as well. But the point is that the novel came from the play, not the other way around. The play was generically based on Romeo and Juliet. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:34, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have physical novel in your hands to read the copyright page, which is 1960. The film was released in 1961. Also, reading you point, it's moot, as the question(s) was about a novel of West Side Story, regardless of how the novel became published. Just anothe "wikidick". Sign. Apple8800 (talk) 09:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

text: The novelization in question appears to have come out in 1961, written by Irving Shulman and published by Simon & Shuster, undoubtedly to capitalize on the 1961 film version rather than on the original 1957 stage production of "West Side Story." The last names given the characters in the accompanying Wikipedia article on the film--e.g., Riff Lorton--certainly do not appear in the published script for the stage musical or in either the vocal score or the more recently published full orchestral score of the musical, and most likely did not appear in the screenplay; the article's author seems to draw on the novelization for some of his information.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.242.201.116 (talk) 19:46, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Novel? What novel?

message: Although it's a minor point, there is the statement that although West Side Story is split into two acts it was not intended to have an intermission. This is not true, the intention of an intermission in the film had always been planned.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.8.182.218 (talk) 20:30, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intermission 

message: For the 50th anniversary of the movie, TCM and FathomEvents re-released the movie to limited screenings at 7 PM in various cities, with an newly-restored HD print and Dolby 7.1 sound.
http://www.tampabay.com/features/movies/west-side-story-celebrates-its-50th-anniversary-with-special-screenings/1200681
Apple8800 (talk) 14:45, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nov. 9 2011 Re-release 

message: Will someone PLEASE sort through the names of various cast members and characters?  Some of them are known like Action and Chino; others such as Joyboy, Snowboy, Loco and Chile seem dodgy at nicest!  Writers Bond (talk) 21:00, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names of cast members and characters 

message: The sentence "After having sex, Maria and Tony arrange to meet at Doc's, where they will pick up getaway money so they can elope" should be shortened to "Maria and Tony arrange to meet at Doc's, where they will pick up getaway money so they can elope." There is no sex scene in the film, not even implied sex.  86.41.41.109 (talk) 10:46, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The phrasing here is certainly rather crude, but the synopsis at, e.g. West Side Story, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055614/synopsis and http://www.israel-opera.co.il/Eng/?CategoryID=339&ArticleID=830, basically say the same thing. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: West Side Story article: no mention. IMDB: "sleeping together". Israeli Opera: no mention. So they don't all say the same, and they're hardly reliable sources anyway. Maybe just something a bit less crude and a bit more accurate: "Anita comes into the apartment while Tony and Maria are in the bedroom. As Tony leaves through the window, they arrange to meet at Doc's, where they will pick up getaway money so they can elope."  86.41.32.171 (talk) 21:08, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: West Side Story: "Anita sees that Tony has been with Maria"; IMDb: "Back at the flat, Tony and Maria are sleeping together"; Israeli Opera: "Anita finds out that Tony has been with Maria". The last source is certainly reliable. I stopped searching after that. I have no objections to your second proposal, although, contrary to your original intent, it is now much longer than the current text. I suggest to wait for further input. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:39, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: "Been with"? That's a long way from "had sex with". Anita is shocked at Maria letting him into the apartment. They might or might not have had sex, but that is not the point. The sentence as it is is not an accurate description of what we see in the film. It ought to be changed.  86.41.32.171 (talk) 11:41, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I've edited the paragraph to use your suggested wording, given the apparent lack of reliable sources saying that they have sex. —Mr. Granger (talk · contribs) 15:11, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. 86.44.196.100 (talk) 13:50, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request 

message: Hate to tell y'all this, but "Puerto Ricans" can ALSO be Caucasian (if you mean White race and not linguistic group), see Demographics of Puerto Rico, correct it or I will 64.134.178.114 (talk) 18:46, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Caucasian gang

message: How could this film, with 10 Oscars, be rated as Low Importance?  And why is Marnie Nixon not listed as Natalie Woods' singing voice?  The Marnie Nixon article says she was.
HowardMorland (talk) 14:25, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The rating is probably better discussed with the people from WikiProject Film at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film. As for Marnie Nixon: she's mentioned extensively in the article. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:09, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Low Importance?

message: Several editors, including 71.244.129.247, TonyPS214 and 24.101.101.150, have expanded the plot far beyond 700 words, which is considered the maximum for Wikipedia articles. If you chaps could direct your attention to Wikipedia:PLOTBLOAT, you will find pertinent guidelines that may help you with dealing with plot summaries. For some reason, editors have been attempting to expand this plot to gargantuan proportions, which isn't acceptable. DARTHBOTTO talk•cont 10:40, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's understandable that the plot gets repeatedly expanded when the culling leaves it without putting the musical numbers into context. At the moment, "Maria", "Gee, Officer Krupke", "I Feel Pretty", "The Rumble", "Cool", are missing from the plot section. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:44, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot Bloat

message: Why don't Stephen Sondheim & Leonard Bernstein receive more credit for the film, and the music in the film? I see that the order of the songs was different and that there were some minor lyric changes described in the article, but weren't the music and lyrics essentially the same as the play's, albeit scored for more musicians? Are there fundamental differences between the broadway play and the film's music?  Ileanadu (talk) 22:42, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Credits for Bernstein & Sondheim? 

message: Spielberg only said, 2 years ago, that he likes West Side Story and that a possible remake is "on my mind".  Over the ensuing 2 years, he has done nothing about it.  This info should be deleted from the Remake section per WP:CRYSTAL. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Per the conversation on my talk page, I don't agree. WP:CRYSTAL doesn't apply to this, though there may be a legitimate concern with notability. I also noted on my talk page that there are similar entries about other works in progress on other articles (see Miss Saigon). Lizzius (talk) 20:48, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Remake rumor

message: We are students from QMUL currently editing this page for a university project. If you have any questions please contact sayema.b, leahisabell420, douglas2807, AlexK81, joseortegax, Saskiacostanza, Kri5h155.
Sayema.b (talk) 14:02, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi everyone. Welcome to Wikipedia. Hope you find it a valuable and interesting experience! Regarding the mentioned movie adaptation, for future events Wikipedia's policy can be found at the shortcut: WP:BALL (as in "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball"). It essentially says that things like movies that have not yet been released should not be mentioned in Wikipedia articles. There are some common sense exceptions—for example if the mere fact that a movies is even planned gets coverage from the relevant reliable sources, regardless of whether the movie ever actually gets made—but as a general rule of thumb future events should not be covered. --Xover (talk) 14:30, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I dispute that statement that there should be no mention. There can be mention, but it is not appropriate to create a standalone article until filming begins. The mention does not have to be very detailed, though, because there is no need to emphasize the possibility of a film until it is actually underway. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 15:09, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

text: Thank you. This information has been taken on board and we have briefly mentioned the remake.Sayema.b (talk) 12:44, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

text: remove "former"Sayema.b (talk) 16:56, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

text: Just make sure to reference all your quotes, but otherwise this is good.Sayema.b (talk) 17:04, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This looks really good!AlexK81 (talk) 12:04, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

text: I have added a section stating that the building was previously called Avery Fisher Hall  Sayema.b (talk) 12:17, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, thanks. Maybe we should delete the section referring to the urban renewal project? I cannot seem to find the source referencing this.Douglas2807 (talk) 11:30, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

text: Perfect, thanks!Douglas2807 (talk) 12:23, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

text: Looks good thank you.Kri5h155 (talk) 17:55, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Queen Mary University of London Education Project

message: He just shows up. I really think it should say who an important character is TTTime05 (talk) 13:52, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Chino is briefly explained in the "Cast" section. More can be found at Count Paris. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:28, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The summary doesn't explaine who Chino is.  

message: Apart from the fact that Hispanics are white, the article should point out the other gang are ethnic Hungarians or whatever they are.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.50.227.183 (talk) 14:46, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The article already points out that the "other gang," The Sharks, are Puerto Rican.Crboyer (talk) 15:31, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The Jets are unspecified white youths.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:45, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The Sharks complain about the Polack and the Swede. I am not certain if the complains refer to the Jets or in general to competitors of Puerto Ricans. --Error (talk) 01:24, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  White American Gang 

message: I feel that this area is a grab bag of names. Yes, many actors and actresses were considered for the two roles, but those listed may not have been seriously considered while some not listed may have come closer to getting the part. In pre-production, there were many names thrown out in brainstorming, from in-person interviews, auditions, and just trying to get the fan magazines talking about the movie as advanced publicity. The inclusion of Tab Hunter bothers me the most as its source is from his autobiography and is not mentioned in other references that I have read. I also have no other confirmation for Jane Fonda.
Other names considered for Tony include Tony Curtis, Paul Newman, Tony Perkins, Harry Belafonte, Marlon Brando, etc.
For Maria: Anna Maria Alberghetti, Anne Bancroft, Ina Balin, Marisa Pavan, Susan  Kohner, Elinor Donahue, Myrna Fahey, Sharon Hugueny, Mary Tyler Moore, etc.   Jay-Jay Nolan (talk) 15:56, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  Less is more.  I would rather delete names than add them, unless an offer was made to the actor or there is some other strong reason for mentioning the name. If the sources warrant, go ahead and make the changes so that we list only the most important actors considered.  Delete those that reliable sources do not justify. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:51, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casting for Tony and Maria 

message: The entire paragraph, "Bernstein and Laurents, who had been blacklisted for alleged communist activities, worked with Robbins even though he had cooperated with the House Un-American Activities Committee.[8] Bernstein, Robbins, Sondheim and Laurents were all gay, closeted and Jewish." has nothing to do with the 1961 film production. This paragraph should be removed for not being relevant to the film production. Jay-Jay Nolan (talk) 12:50, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Please make sure that you move it to the musical's article before deleting it here. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:49, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

text: While I'm for sure it doesn't belong here, I don't feel strong enough or knowledgeable about its content to move it to the musical's article. -- Jay-Jay Nolan (talk) 21:08, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Production: Blacklisted for alleged communist activities 

message: The paragraph, "The Stan Kenton Orchestra recorded Kenton's West Side Story, an entire album of Johnny Richards' jazz orchestrations based on the Bernstein scores in 1961. It was previewed at Capitol Records by the producers of the motion picture during the editing and mix down who lamented that, had they known of its existence, it would have been used as the musical foundation of the new film. The Kenton version won the 1962 Grammy Award for Best Jazz Recording by a Large Group. A still picture from the movie is the front cover of the Kenton LP." should be considered for removal as I believe it provides a false narrative. The basis for the paragraph revolves around the sentence, "It was previewed at Capitol Records by the producers of the motion picture during the editing and mix down who lamented that, had they known of its existence, it would have been used as the musical foundation of the new film.". That tidbit of information from the album's liner notes is highly likely to be false and publicity driven. Kenton's West Side Story was recorded on one of the same sound stages as the film a few weeks after film shooting was completed. It could not have been a surprise to the producers as it was recorded right under their nose.
Tracks 1-10 recorded March 15/16, April 11, 1961 in Hollywood, CA. at Goldwyn Sound Stage #5. Jay-Jay Nolan (talk) 13:54, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no objection to its deletion. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:52, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Score and soundtrack: Kenton's West Side Story 

message: The plot is missing the fact that the Puerto Ricans were moving into the Jets territory. This is seen in the Prologue where the Jets run into Bernardo, a single Puerto Rican. Then there are two, then three, then five. They, the Sharks, keep growing and the Jets feel threatened. Come on, the Sharks and their ladies were not native New Yorkers! By the time "America" is performed, it is clear that they had recently come from Puerto Rico. So the opening plotline should be:
"During a 1950s summer, two rival teenage gangs, the Jets, a white American gang led by Riff, and the Sharks, a recently immigrated group of Puerto Ricans led by Bernardo, struggle to control their neighborhood on the Upper West Side of New York City."
Technically and legally they were not an "immigrated group", but they felt like immigrants. On the rooftop, they specifically refer to themselves as "immigrants". I wouldn't object to calling them a recently migrated group, but it seems to water down the plot for political correctness.Jay-Jay Nolan (talk) 04:54, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your description of the prologue, as my recollection of it was foggy. I only disagree with the words "recently immigrated". Maybe "newly arrived"?  The word "immigrant" does not apply to Puerto Ricans, since they are already American.  I believe that Puerto Ricans find the word "immigrant" offensive, because it implies that they are not American.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:11, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot: Recent Immigration (or Migration) of Puerto Ricans into the plot line 

message: A lot of changes were made to the plot by other user(s?) after the change just discussed above.  They make the plot longer (especially near the end) and, in some cases, like the adjective "racially" harassed, to describe Anita's sexual assault, I think they are clearly wrong.  Just wondering: User:Jay-Jay Nolan, do you plan to do anything about these new changes? I would encourage you to do so, as the plot summary is already longer than the Film project guidelines recommend, and you seem to be very familiar with the plot, so if you can make it more concise, that would be good.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:11, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that harass was sufficient without an adjective like "racially". The Jets called Anita a "spic", but they were also sexually harassing her. I say drop the adjective(s) as it was no one type of harassment.Jay-Jay Nolan (talk) 11:44, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

text: Schrank asks her one question by the end of the scene. He wants to know which boy she got in trouble with at the dance. She lies and answers, "José".Jay-Jay Nolan (talk) 12:25, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, so the first sentence is correct.  But what does the second sentence mean? Who is "him" in each case?:  "To cover for Tony, Maria has Anita tell him that Maria is detained from meeting him."  I originally read it to mean that Maria has Anita tell Schrank that Maria is detained from meeting Schrank, but that is not consistent with the first sentence. If "him" means Tony, how can Maria's being detained "cover" for Tony? -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:31, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  "him" does mean Tony. "cover" is not the right word unless someone thought Maria might have led Schrank to Tony at Doc's. Maria is just trying to tell Tony, through Anita, that she's coming as soon as Schrank leaves.Jay-Jay Nolan (talk) 16:54, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, thanks. I've clarified it now. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:42, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot: other recent changes

message: I don't think it's appropriate to add the song timings.  If this were an article about a soundtrack we would include the timings, but we shouldn't include them in the general movie article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:47, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that unverified original research song start times to a random selection of songs are unnecessary and confusing. Such titbits provide no encyclopedic value and I'm going to restore the list as it had been for years. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:20, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Song timings