Talk:List of operas by composer/Archive 1

message: This list was developed by the Opera Project. I think it's sufficiently complete to appear now in a more prominent/conspicuous position linked to the main Opera article. If anyone has any comments about the presentation of the article, I will be interested to read them.
Kleinzach 22:46, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Launch

message: For what it's worth, I agree with the suggestion at the top of the operetta list that that page should be deleted, and merged into The Opera Corpus. Marc Shepherd 14:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging Operetta 

message: I think only the English title should be listed here - Ruders has always been clear that the English libretto, not the Danish one, is the authoritative one for the opera.  Gerry Lynch 17:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. I will remove the Danish title. Thanks. - Kleinzach 20:41, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Handmaid's Tale (Tjenerindens Fortælling)

message: Shouldn't we just list Candide and A Quiet Place, and leave the rest to the musical theatre project?  Also, for Weill, should we leave some of those works listed to the musical theatre project?  Ssilvers 06:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As already explained to the musical theatre project, listing here doesn't really imply any kind of ownership. Having half the works of a major composer like Bernstein or Weill might look odd, especially as even a work like West Side Story can be performed in different (both more and less operatic) ways, so IMO this is a non-issue. - Kleinzach 07:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to reopen this "non-issue" and at least delete Wonderful Town, which is not an opera by any stretch of the imagination --Dmz5 05:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bernstein/Weill 

message: Thinking about the discussion above, I would certainly be in favour of starting a librettists' opera corpus. It would give a new perspective on the repertoire. A large undertaking, though we could begin slowly with Metastasio, Da Ponte, Scribe, Hofmannsthal and of course Gilbert. - Kleinzach 01:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the idea: create a separate page, or make a new section here? Moreschi  Want some help? Ask! 10:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Separate page, I think. Metastasio is so complicated he probably needs a page all by himself. --Folantin 10:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The beginnings of an experimental version are here: User:Folantin/Userspace Folantin2. Feel free to tinker with it. I suggest we limit ourselves to librettists who already have their own articles on WP. --Folantin 15:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good - the beginning of a genuinely useful list. Yes, it should be a seperate article, perhaps List of opera librettists as there isn't another one. At some point we might think of adding new articles. Librettists have been relatively neglected until now. -Kleinzach 15:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's now at that address in mainspace. Let's continue the discussion on the talk page there. Cheers. --Folantin 16:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: An opera corpus for librettists

message: What are the criteria I have to know before I will add some operas, that are probably not important in the world history of opera, but quite important in the Czech or Slovak operatic history? Thanks, Okino 20:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This shouldn't be a problem if it's possible to write articles on them using neutral, third-party sources (in other words avoiding conflict of interest). If these were fairly significant works within the Czech and Slovak traditions and were performed (or if unperformed, had some other claim to notability) then feel free to add them. --Folantin 20:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Czech music tradition is less known, but very long, so Your remarks are quite dishonesting ;-) - and also the Slovak operas were performed. :-) Thanks, I will do it soon. --Okino 20:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Czech and Slovak Operas 

message: Should Beethoven's opera be listed twice? Michael Bednarek 11:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point since Leonore redirects to Fidelio. Sometimes we list a second version, perhaps in a different language, but here we just have one article for both - so I'll delete Leonore. Thanks. -- Kleinzach 11:39, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Fidelio]]

message: Newly registered User:Schwarze wolken has just added well over 100 titles - all red links of course. Maybe we should explain that this list is of links which we intend to turn into articles - This list is intended to be a selective one of notable works (preamble) - not a list of all operas ever written. We do need complete lists of works for notable composers, but these should go in the articles on the composers. Having a huge list here does not achieve anything in itself. What we are trying to do in build a encyclopedia not lists. (We particularly want to avoid creating links for lost works that no longer exist and are not going to be performed). -- Kleinzach 05:38, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello there. I've gone back and deleted a few of the "indulgent" red entries. Let me know if it's any better. Thanks. Schwarze wolken 15:01, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What this list is for . . .

message: Someone has added (virtually) the complete list of Albinoni operas. How many of these will be viable as articles? How many of them still exist/are still performed? -- Kleinzach 02:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Tomaso Albinoni]] operas

message: I think Michel van der Aa should be alphabetized under "A"; that's how DEFAULTSORT at :nl:Michel van der Aa and :de:Michel van der Aa is used. I also suspect that's how he is listed in the phone book. Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Grove have some 'van's under 'V' some not. There are redirects so it's obviously done deliberately. I wonder what the rule is on this? Is there a Holland Project or something like that? --Kleinzach (talk) 10:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Incidentally neither of your links :nl:Michael van der Aa and :de:Michael van der Aa work for me. --Kleinzach (talk) 10:37, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They do now (sometimes the fingers have a mind of their own).Also, :nl:Categorie:Nederlands componist and :de:Kategorie:Niederländischer Komponist list all names with "van" under their surnames, none under "V"; the :Category:Dutch composers does likewise, except for Michel van der Aa – I'm going to change the DEFAULTSORT on his page. Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:18, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. --Kleinzach (talk) 13:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alphabetization of [[Michel van der Aa]] 

message: Right now I am systematically going through the opera composer cat and pulling out operas that will make viable articles (I have only listed works where a web search has found useable sources. I have not added operas where little or no information could be found). I view this as useful as it will help direct future expansion on topics that could and should be covered. I have also been using Grove as a guide in selecting operas of significance within the career of each composer.Nrswanson (talk) 02:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's good. With the print Grove it lists Grove articles on specific operas at the foot of the biographies. That's what we have used in the past. Is that what you are seeing when you use the online Grove? --Kleinzach 03:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not exactly what I see online no. I've more been reading the articles on the composers and pulling works mentioned in composer bios as important within the composers career. I've then done searches for info on the operas. If I have found enough info on the opera's history, roles, recordings etc. I have gone ahead and added it to the list. I've been careful to select operas that could be fleshed out into at least a start class article. Overall I have found this exercize helpful as I am finding a number of notable opera composers not on this list, some of them already with articles on their operas. I'm not putting anything on here that I wouldn't be willing to create and work on myself.Nrswanson (talk) 03:59, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Mmm. OK. but please understand that the more red links we have, the greater our planned coverage of individual works and the harder it will be to accomplish that coverage. Many titles that are discussed at length in Grove biographies do not have their own Grove articles.  We are already planning more articles than Grove - which is said to have around 1,800 to 2,000! --Kleinzach 04:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I do understand. I am done adding composers from U-Z. I am going to be adding composers from S-T and then I am going to stop and write some opera articles for a while. After that it is back down the alphabet. I'll probably be working on this systematically for a long time. I think the fact that we will end up covering more works than Grove is a good thing.Nrswanson (talk) 04:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's good thing providing we can at least produce start-class articles on them. --Kleinzach 04:54, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No I am not because it looks like the red link count is already way off.Nrswanson (talk) 05:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The red link count was correct at the time of my update at 18.32 on 5 September. It's bad if we no longer have an accurate figure only 4 days later. Can you see how many red links you've added since then? (I assume you are checking any blue links that you appear to create.) --Kleinzach 08:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so. I myself have created articles turing red to blue without adjusting the statistics and without another project member noticing. (This was prior to my interest in the Opera Corpus) I think an accurate red link count can only be maintained by a bot as we can't control who is going to create what articles when. Simply adding by hand doesn't account for articles created by users outside the project and/or project members not interested in the corpus. This is a statistic that I think is impossible to accurately maintain without a bot and I view it as a waist of time to try and maintain it otherwise. Also recent mass removal of red links by Jerome Kohl have further confused the issue; throwing the accuracy of all the statistics out the window.Nrswanson (talk) 16:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Increased coverage

message: How does the "machine count" work? It fails to register :Liza Lim as a female composer. I'm less concerned about the promotion of women's visibility in the arts than about the counting process. Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was done by another editor using AWB. The composers and blue and red operas were counted. We also discovered about 70 redirects which I have attempted to correct (a big job.) Women composers were not counted. (No big surprise there! AWB doesn't have a sex-recognition module), so please add any women to the list at the foot of the article - and the count -by hand. (The composers by period count was also compiled some time ago so that is inaccurate now as well.) --Kleinzach 05:08, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Statistics: Women composers