Talk:Mario Bava

message: His excellent use of light and dark in black and white movies is simply beautiful - POV? Cnwb 05:07, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Mario bava.jpg

message: So, here it is.  The tag was back in April.                                                               Actually, everything in the article IS accurate. However, it is a very quick overview verging on stub - even with the filmography or ins spite of it.  A lot of detail about his cinematic skills is sorely missing, for example. 104.169.41.8 (talk) 23:43, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  someone tagged the article for refs but didn't open a TP discussion as required 

message: Despite two sources stating that Bava had directed the film (one (from the early 2000s) going as far as to say Bava directed 90% of the film. The article itself in question finds that Alex Cox writes in his book (from 2010) that Bava isn't the main director. Tim Lucas who wrote in his 2007 book that Bava couldn't have been the assistant director, but also that his son Lamberto notes that Bava was there to do matte work, but also took over to do some directorial work, but it's not clear how much he did. Now, if it was 100% clear that the film was mostly directed by Bava, I'd say go for it, but as it stands from the sources on hand, the more contemporary ones don't go into full detail how much he did and it was truly 90%, i feel like that would have been set clear from a) people who were on set and b) the other more contemporary sources. Andrzejbanas (talk) 07:40, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: To follow it up further, Thomas Weisser's book on Spaghetti Westerns states "the actual amount of Bava's contribution to the film has been the subject of great controversy since it's release." (here) Andrzejbanas (talk) 07:43, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Weisser wrote about spaghetti westerns and Japanese films in general, whereas the two premiere authorities on Mario Bava were Troy Howarth and (especially) Tim Lucas. They each wrote massive comprehensive studies on Bava specifically, whereas Weisser just covered spaghetti westerns generally (and his books are loaded with errors by the way). The Tim Lucas biography on Bava sells for thousands of dollars on ebay, it is the definitive text. Howarth and Lucas both stated that Bava finished directing "Savage Gringo" after Roman was fired, and they are both extremely reliable sources. We don't have to write that Bava directed 90% of the film or 70% or whatever, no one cares exactly how much of the film he directed. But we do know that Bava directed at least part of the film, so it should definitely be included in his filmography. The whole reason that Lamberto Bava was the assistant director on the film was because his father was directing it! Comparing Weisser's error-riddled books with an acclaimed authority like Tim Lucas who specializes in studying Bava is totally wacky, I can't see how those two sources can even be compared. Why are Caltiki and I Vampiri included in Bava's filmography, but not "Savage Gringo"?  As long as Bava was involved in directing even PART of "Savage Gringo", then it should be included in his filmography, simply because we KNOW he worked on it. Why is this so difficult? It seems you are just determined not to include the film out of sheer stubbornness. EuroHorrorGuy (talk) 19:55, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: PS - Who the heck is Alex Cox? And just because a source is more recent or contemporary, doesn't make it accurate. The Tim Lucas book blows away any research Alex Cox ever did, whoever that is, or Weisser who just covers general topics in a very peripheral manner. EuroHorrorGuy (talk) 19:59, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  What makes Weisser's book "error-ridden"? As for Cox, he has written books on film, is a director and appears in several extra on specialized home video departments such as Criterion and Arrow Video. I'm not sure why Weisser's far more contemporary sources than Howarth's are any less valid and you'll have to provide back up on that to be taken seriously.Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:49, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Weisser and Cox just write about generic subjects like spaghetti westerns, etc. whereas Howarth and Lucas each wrote specifically on Bava. The Lucas book is in such demand by Bava fans, it sells for thousands of dollars on ebay. So if Lucas and Howarth both agree that Bava completed "Savage Gringo", you should not use shoddily done quickie research books by Weisser and Cox to contradict their statements. They are not experts on the subject of Bava by any means. EuroHorrorGuy (talk) 20:40, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You ask, "What makes Weisser's book error-ridden"?  Check out some of the reviews on this site: https://forum.spaghetti-western.net/t/spaghetti-westerns-the-good-the-bad-and-the-violent-thomas-weisser/710 EuroHorrorGuy (talk) 23:38, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know how much weight I should put into a bunch of anonymous posts on a message board, but Weisser's comments are hardly controversial in this case and back up what has been the research put forward so far, specifically that it's the subject of controversy on how much was directed, which is backed up by the varied reports on who did what. Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:46, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, I just looked at the excerpt you noted from Weisser's book, and it says (and I quote) "Director: Mario Bava with Antonio Roman". So even Weisser listed Bava as the director! Why are you citing Weisser's book if it agrees that the film was directed by Mario Bava??  How is it "controversial" if even Weisser says Bava was the director? This is getting stranger and stranger. EuroHorrorGuy (talk) 19:04, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: He can list that all he likes, but other authors have posted that he should be viewed strictly as an assistant director. What makes one more accurate than the other? You also just said earlier Weisser's book is unreliable, and now you want to use it. Which is it? Until you can find more specific material, I don't see any real reason to change what is currently in the article. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:32, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Savage Gringo