Talk:Auguste Rodin

message: Ok, so I eliminated a spacing error (as I saw it), but the result is that now the text runs into the picture.  I have no idea how to edit pictures, so I'm waiting for someone else to make it all work.  Sorry about leaving a mess. Unschool 23:02, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries. It was fine to remove the space and the picture layout problem has been around for a while. I've now shifted the second picture a little to avoid clashing with the text. -- Solipsist 07:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! I've been hovering over my computer 24/7 for a week, waiting for someone to fix that! :)Unschool 07:52, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Format 

message: Is this not vandalism with anti-french sentiment?
:"We well know now that the French word for Resistance is "capitulation" and ultimately the town accepted the sculpture for its artistic power even though they were offended by its air of submission"
--5telios 14:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes quite possibly. I believe the French word for 'resistance' is actually 'résistance'  and has nothing to do with captiulation. On the other hand, the recent group of edits that introduced this section :Solipsist|Solipsist]] 15:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: possible vandalism - about Burghers

message: I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information.  I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list.  Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article.  Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here.  Regards, Durova 15:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultural depictions of Auguste Rodin]] 

message: The list of locations has become something like a fetish, and is in dire need of a trimming to the essential eight or ten (which would be plenty!); right now there are 27, some of which are of marginal import, or less. However, I fear that cutting into this will engender some possessive or chauvanistic reactions. Can an experienced editor in the arts offer some suggestion? JNW 00:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We could start by trimming the locations that don't even listed the pieces held. Or, the section could be split off into List of Rodin sculptures by location, for example. Truthfully, I don't think the article is in good enough shape now that this list detracts from it... –Outriggr § 00:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good thoughts--thank you. In some cases, as in a Rodin-specific or other world class museum, there is no need to have individual sculpture listed. My concern is more for minor entries, collections that hold one or two pieces. I think I noticed the list because in a few more weeks it will be as long as the article. JNW 01:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I see. I think you should go ahead and trim it. When I mentioned the condition of the article, I only meant in relation to the fact that it's supposed to be a "core" biography! –Outriggr § 03:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Understood. It might not be there yet, but you have done good work to raise the level of the article. JNW 05:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Locations

message: I think that this is definitely of GA quality. Nice work. I am including some comments below in case you want to go for FA and that would improve the article overall.
*Sculpturally, he possessed a unique ability to organize a complex, turbulent, deeply pocketed clay surface. - This sounds a little poetic for the lead, in my opinion.
*I think that the lead should say a little more about Rodin's life - reflect the article a little more than it does.
*The predominant figure sculpture tradition of the time required an almost formulaic approach, and most sculpture was either decorative or highly thematic. - wordy (watch for this at times in the page)
*The article has excessive commas. Ex: He was schooled traditionally in Paris's École des Beaux-Arts system, and desired academic recognition.
**You might like commas, but this comma (like several others in your article) is used incorrectly. (I like the comma too, by the way). Awadewit 04:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for reviewing the article Awadewit, and for leaving comments. I agree with many of your comments. However, I like commas!, and I don't find the sentence you mention "wordy". If the article requires more references for FA, it may wait indefinitely, as I am not inclined to add more references from my main source so far—a book that would likely be reviled for not being scholarly enough. That said, at some point I also must fall back on the "likely to be challenged" clause of WP:WIAFA. The influence and connection between Rodin-Claudel is standard fare in all sources and not really up for debate. I did treat Rodin's influence under "Legacy", but his influence was not so much "on artist x or y" as on the entire artform, broadly and over many decades. Regards, –Outriggr § 01:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: FAC seems to require at least one citation per paragraph (tiresome though it is). You might keep that benchmark in mind. Also, I don't think that citations are necessarily just about proving controversial claims; they are also about proving wikipedia's legitimacy. I tend to overcite for just that reason. I would never litter my dissertation with the number of citations that I do my articles here, but citations are used here more for legitimacy than anything else. They also make the FAC reviewers happy. Awadewit 12:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: A "guideline" that is read as a requirement for one citation per paragraph has the splendid effect of making criticism possible, even for those with no information whatsoever concerning the subject. Democracy in action! --Wetman 16:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, form before content. Awadewit, I've even seen it claimed that "Good article" status requires one citation per paragraph. I presume that's not the working standard; otherwise, fail this immediately! –Outriggr § 00:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you forgotten? "Form is content." Awadewit 13:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Review

message: Rodin was not schooled in the École des Beaux-Arts. He was never admitted there, and for such reason he went to the Petite École.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Catalina elias (talk • contribs) 11:36, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead says that he was schooled in the École des Beaux-Arts system. From my research I have taken the system to include the Petite École, where he was admitted, as well as the Grand Ecole, where he was not. If you know otherwise, please advise. –Outriggr § 03:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  École des Beaux-Arts 

message: While we might like to include every piece of information on Rodin to make this a truly encyclopedic article, that is not possible. We have to carefully select items of true import. If you can find Rodin scholars who explain the artistic importance of the genealogy of Rodin's tools, we will include that information. However the citation you have included is to a commercial site, which is not reliable (see WP:RS, WP:V, and WP:ATT - these pages outline our policies on reliable sources). "Verifiability" is one of the cornerstone policies here at wikipedia. Thanks again! Awadewit | talk 22:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *I have removed this information again. Please read these policies and source this information to reputable, scholarly publications. It looks like you should have no trouble doing that. Thanks! Awadewit | talk 22:47, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *Is is possible for you to provide me with WorldCat number for Into the Fire? I can't find it in a quick google search or at my research library. I thought I could use the information in the article to add more of a transition from the rest of the "Legacy" section to the tools bit. Awadewit | talk 23:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *I have not been able to verify that Into the Fire exists. It may, but it is incredibly difficult to track down. It would be very helpful if the editors who added it could point us to where we might find it. Thank you. Awadewit | talk 22:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: * If the later history of his tools has any importance then it is to Snowden, not Rodin. Yomanganitalk 23:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *Into the Fire is a supplementary publication to Art and Business News. I continue to dispute the exclusion of information about the whereabouts of Rodins' tools, or his creative successors. If I must, I will create a new page "Auguste Rodins' tools" or wherever it is most suitable, as I find it incredible that fellow scholars would suppress information in an encyclopedia. Cttomassotalk 10:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rodin's tools 

message: The dry list that someone deleted is here. It would seem to be of use to the Wikipedia reader. --Wetman (talk) 16:38, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The list was commented out (hidden) before Someone's (my) edit. I originally commented it out on the basis that lists don't seem to be encouraged on more well-developed articles, and I wasn't sure if its completeness warranted its presence in any case. I'll paste it here, and someone can make a new article to develop it, if they like. –Outriggr § 05:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Locations of Rodin sculptures

message: Rodin's bronze "Eve, grand modele - version sans rocher," was sold for $ 18.9 million  at Christie's auction in New York on May 6, 2008.Afp.google.com,   Monet fetches record price at New York auction --Florentino floro (talk) 07:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Posthumous sale

message: According to User:Sharkface217/Awards Center,
:; Help get Auguste Royhrhrdin to FA status
:One of my favorite artists of all time, Rodin currently has a pretty good Wikipedia article. Still, it can easily be improved. More pictures could be added to the page, as well as external links, references (although the article is already well referenced), etc. --Sharkface217 00:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'll do some images--Ainlina (talk) 08:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  7 Easy Steps 

message: Four photos of Rodin in 1902 are now PD. Ty 09:00, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: PD images

message: Could anyone add bibliographic description of Hale book to "References"? There are several editions of it, if I'm not mistaken. --Blacklake (talk) 07:52, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I found the Hale ref from the time of the GA sweep in 2009 and restored it.  ( )  More work is probably needed to replace Hale with multiple sources, but I'm not the guy for that.--Hjal (talk) 10:30, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please don't use the | character within the number part of the  template.  I have fixed it here and in the article.  It is considered an error. AManWithNoPlan (talk) 15:45, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  References to Hale 

message: The Google doodle for November 12, 2012, shows the Thinker and recognizes Rodin's 172nd birthday; this article is the top of search list, after the doodle's news coverage in the Times of India.--Hjal (talk) 06:33, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it when Google doodles feature WP articles. It really helps the articles develop. :) -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:07, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  get ready - Google doodle 11-12-2012 for Rodin's 172nd birthday 

message: François-Auguste-René Rodin (12 November 1840 – 17 November 1917), known as Auguste Rodin (play /oʊˈɡuːst roʊˈdæn/ oh-GOOST roh-DAN; French: [oɡyst ʁɔdɛ̃]), was a French sculptor. Although Rodin is generally considered the progenitor of modern sculpture,[1] he did not set out to rebel against the past. He was schooled traditionally, took a craftsman-like approach to his work, and desired academic recognition,[2] although he was never accepted into Paris's foremost school of art."
That is the worst-written paragraph I have ever seen in Wikipedia.
1. Why would the "progenitor of modern sculpture" set out to "rebel against the past?"  The leading "Although" clause, (indeed, the entire sentence) STINKS of plagiarism.
2. Why would anybody ever use the phrase "rebel against the past?"  Seriously, is that Wikipedia tone?
3. The last sentence goes on so long it nearly made me fall asleep in my own dream, where doubtless Leo DiCaprio would steal my secrets.
4. The paragraph isn't a particularly good summary of Rodin.  What pieces of art did he make?  Who did he influence?  What characterizes his works? Aside a (shudder) workman-like approach. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.20.11.24 (talk • contribs) 
* I would like to respond to the trollish fuck who posted the above. As the "author" of most of this article (all but the appendage on "Rodin in America" and a bit on technique), I am nevertheless a rank amateur, as is to be expected of most on Wikipedia. 
# "Progenitor" refers to a critical consensus after the fact; Rodin did not see himself this way. You could make it clearer, but it seems implied (I don't think you're so smart). Here is a change to the sentence that would make it senseless: "Although Rodin considered himself the progenitor of modern sculpture, he did not set out to rebel against the past." Is that how you're reading it? It makes sense to me to say that an artist who is now seen as an important transitionary figure nevertheless did not consciously set out to rebel against the past. That is a purposeful contradiction that is supposed to lead the reader into the biography.
# I have no qualms with the phrase "rebel against the past" in an encyclopedia article, depending on the context. What are you looking for? Fix it! One million page-view-ers didn't. (Yes, I am writing to posterity.)
# Then you have a poor attention span and/or recursive mental capacity, and surely would not be able to follow the DiCaprio movie at all.
# You are right that the lead as a whole isn't as "summarizing" as it could be. As everyone says, leads are the hardest to write, and sometimes after an article body is fleshed out, one never rewrites the introduction. 
* I am pleased that Rodin received 1 million page views on Google Doodle Day. It underwent no substantive change from that much scrutiny other than, if I remember, the correction of a caption indicating the wrong museum collection. But you can rest assured: you will not see another candidate for worst-written paragraph on Wikipedia from me, because I can no longer find any reason to contribute here in the "hard" ways, intrinsic or extrinsic. 
* To future editors, there are still citations to books that are no longer listed in "References" due to editing decay/vandalism. (Janson, Tallandier, Jianou & Goldscheider, Tucker...) In fact, many of the works listed in References were not used to write the article (all of Butler, most of Elsen...). I did not "watch" this article in recent years, and—as an idealistic nod to the individual on Wikipedia—when those who have developed articles stop "OWNing" them, they often deteriorate in odd ways. I was going to dig the citations out of the article history around the time of Google Doodle Day until I read your screed... I was "retiring" anyway, and your bullshit capped it. Riggr Mortis (talk) 09:37, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *What, so that's one ignorant screed out of a million viewers? The intro is fine. JNW (talk) 13:18, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I restored the intro to the version of last summer.  A single purchase of a single work is too trivial for the article, and certainly does not belong in the lede.  I removed Butler, but have not yet determined which Elsen work was used in the article.  Kablammo (talk) 19:18, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening paragraph 

message: Substituted at 08:36, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Tate has a creative commons license picture of "Fallen Caryatid Carrying Her Stone." http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/rodin-the-fallen-caryatid-carrying-her-stone-n05955
I know nothing about uploading pictures to wikipedia anymore. I realize it may not be important enough for the article, but many articles have a "gallery" near the bottom, of thumbnails that link to full size pictures uploaded to wikipedia. 
I'm actually looking for this because the cover of Heinlein's book Stranger in a Strange Land  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land is based on this sculpture. The link there, and in the Rodin article, actually only link to the "caryatid" wikipedia article.
I would be very grateful if someone could upload this. Poidkurdo (talk) 12:35, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  please upload a certain creative commons pic from Tate? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Back in the 90's, I drove some people for the Berkeley Student Cooperative Association during the summer to "Stanford to see the Rodin Sculptures."  From the floral dresses, I guessed it might be their graduation.  It was a small area.  However, looking at this page The Thinker looks more green than black.  It was a small sculpture garden of roughly 8 statues.  I was familiar with "The Thinker" from my Art History class at Southeastern Louisiana State University.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:E944:B500:1B6:73F3:7CFB:EBC1 (talk) 01:12, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rodin Garden 

message: from 1915 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AREa9OoYB9A  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Man74 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  film of Auguste Rodin 

message: I've read that some of his works were destroyed in the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center. Do we have any details?  --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 01:36, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, see here and there is coverage in the Guardian also. Will take a further look later in the week; its defiantly worth including. Ceoil (talk) 15:07, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Defiantly indeed. :) --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:57, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: 9/11 attacks

message: There's eight (!) outstanding citation needed tags on this article. One is enough to prevent an article from becoming a GA. I've never seriously tried to expand an article on a 19th-century person, and I suspect most of the information here will be in books (and I have no clue where to start to search), so I'm hoping someone else can at least get things started here towards getting this article back to GA status. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 08:21, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA status?