Template talk:Christian democracy sidebar

message: While I would prefer for the CDI to call itself the "Christian Democrat International", they actually have begun to call themselves "Centrist Democrat International".
Also, Communitarianism and Conservatism are indeed proper links for this subject.
BTW, for a link to be included, the topic does not have to be a subset of CD, but just related to it.
   GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 22:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Re: changes by [[Special:Contributions/69.6.103.107|69.6.103.107]]

message: Though I had to search them out, I think the new encyclical additions are on point, though I wonder if of critical importance. They do needs stubs at least. We don't want dead links on the template.
Regarding the Distributism link, while it does build on the same teachings, and involves the worker movement (also linked), no CD party that I know of advocates distributism, so I do question its inclusion. I'm not against it fully, but it does need some consensus discussion.
   GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 16:28, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If anyone can bring any proof that a CD party has advocated distributism or something resembling that, it would be good enough. Itake 16:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I will remove distributism until further evidence is presented. As template creator who included conservatism, I think I'll take that one off as well, because the point of overlap, social conservatism, is also included.    GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 02:57, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Re: changes by [[Special:Contributions/202.124.150.247|202.124.150.247]]

message: :Discussion continued from: Talk:Christian Democracy#European Christian Political Movement?
Well, from my looking at the website, the agenda seems to be nothing but elections, and the membership is mostly political parties. A group doesn't have to be members of EU parliament to be actively progressing Christian Democracy.
Members
All the members seem to be political parties.
* Armenia: Christian People's Unity of Armenia (CPUA)
* Belgium: C’axent
* ____ Christian-democrats French-speaking (CDF)
* Bulgaria: Bulgarian Christian Coalition (BCC)
* Estonia: Estonian Christian Democrats (EKD)
* Germany: Party of Bible-faithful Christians (PBC)
* ____ Zentrumspartei
* Latvia: Christian-Democratic Union (KDS)
* Lithuania: Lithuanian Christian Democrats (LKD)
* Moldova: Christian Democratic People´s Party (PPCD)
* Netherlands: ChristianUnion
Associates
Includes several movement organizations and a non-EU CD party.
* African Christian Democratic Party (South-Africa)
What makes this organization less worthy of a link?    GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 22:09, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There does seem to be a social issues focus to the ECPM, but that is progressing CD, not a particularly religious focus. In fact, they don't have a denominational requirement.    GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 22:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Point proven I guess. Itake 01:02, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  European Christian Political Movement 

message: Many of the political templates have symbols for identification purposes.  I added this image on this template for this purpose.  It is a fair use image, which allows use "for identification and critical commentary on ... the political movement it represents".  In this template it is used thumbnail-sized for identification purposes (and a commentary of sorts).    GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 05:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added pic of CD propaganda posters 

message: Berlusconi is not a CD. Neither is Forza Italia a CD party. Itake 00:40, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They claim to be (see Forza Italia#Party Ideology and Factions). Many of their members were part of the defunct DC party. And, in 1999 they became a member of the European People's Party, a CD regional.    GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 05:15, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  They claim to be "it is a liberal party although not an elistist one, indeed a popular liberal-democratic party; it is a Catholic party although not a confessional one; it is a secular party, although not an intolerant and secularist one; it is a national party, although not a centralist one". I'd say its a populist party, nothing else. Itake 14:45, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Berlusconi 

message: What is the ideas section based on. For the :template:Greens it is based on the Global Green Charter. What about this one? The Dutch Christian Democrats for instance have four key values ([see here (in dutch)]). Justice, Spread Responsibility (Subsidiarity + Sphere Sovereignty), Solidarity and Stewardship. What about the ideas included here where did they come from? --C mon 19:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, as I pointed out above, the ideas section should not include concepts that are so broad that everyone agrees with them - or at least everyone says they agree with them. I'm referring to concepts such as freedom, justice and solidarity. Is there any political ideology that opposes "justice"? Of course not. The Ideas section should only contain ideas that are specifically CD, such as Personalism, or at least ideas that are not shared by the opponents of CD (such as social conservatism). -- Nikodemos 16:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The link in the template is to social justice ("justice" is used for short, for the sake of the template).  Conservatives don't really believe in social justice, but CDers do.  So, not everyone agrees.  If particular concepts are emphasized, even if commonly shared, they should be included; because, if for no other reason, the specific mixture of concepts will be different from other ideologies when considered in totality.  If you remove any particular concept, it spoils the understanding of the mixture.  Most people say they believe in human dignity.  Should it be removed?  For CD it is the concept that unifies the ideology.  Would you remove the central concept?  NO.    GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 05:11, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't want to remove any ideas (yet) I just wanted to know what you based the section on, did you think it up yourself, did you base it on a list of an international organization, or one party? --C mon 08:30, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ideas

message: I thought we should revitalize some of the discussion here. Over in template talk:Social democracy, C mon proposed that we use some sort of common standard for the SD, CD and liberalism templates, for the sake of consistency and neutrality. He also proposed that we based the standard on the liberalism template, because it is the oldest and arguably has the most well-developed articles. What do you think? -- Nikodemos 04:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some problems with using the Liberalism template as a model for CD: (1) CD doesn't have readily definable "schools of thought", (2) Wikipedia doesn't have articles for the "development" and "variants" categories in regard to CD, (3) the Liberalism template has no spot for important people and important documents, both of which are quite significant to CD. --    GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 01:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Consistency of templates?

message: Should Luigi Sturzo be included in the list of important people.  I removed his name recently added.  I hadn't even heard of him, but that could just be my ignorance.  He seems to be a founder of Italian People's Party (1919).  Should he be considered important for CD in general? -- Guðsþegn (talk) 04:19, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Luigi Sturzo]] 

message: why is the colour orange used here so prominently? I don't think that this colour is either traditionally associated with Christian democratic parties nor is it nowadays used by most of them (more or less restricted to Germany, Belgium and Switzerland, I'd say).93.104.62.255 (talk) 10:54, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orange 

message: Surely he does not belong here? He was not a thinker in any sense of the word; his achievement seems to be to have been head of government for 16 years in a Catholic country. All the same Fine Gael have the reputation for being a Christian Democratic party (including membership of the EPP) while Fianna Fail are a catch all party with no real ideological roots. It is instructive Bertie Ahern called himself the last socialist in Ireland when Rerum Novarum specifically condemns socialism, and no other ideology. 88.104.144.108 (talk) 16:27, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eamon de Valera 

message: I've removed the use of custom colors from Template:Christian Democracy, as I have also done with the navboxes for Nazism, Neo-Nazism, Anarchism, Libertarianism, Liberalism, Communism, and other ideologies. None of these color schemes serve any encyclopedic purpose, and are solely decoration for the sake of decoration. -- The Anome (talk) 11:09, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of custom colors 

message: Two extremely small parties, receiving only a few thousand votes in national elections, have been added by @Archives908 to the template. I removed them, but he readded them. They do not deserve representation for the simple reason that they are tiny and unsuccessful. Anyone else is free to remove them again. If there is a more successful CD party in Armenian history, I advise @Archives908 to add that one instead. Trakking (talk) 12:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I have already explained my rationale for keeping a few smaller parties. Cyprus, Lichtenstein, and Luxembourg are all smaller in population than Armenia. Their parties may not be WP:N enough to warrant inclusion either, but they are indeed included. There is no wikipolicy or established inclusion criteria which outright forbids the inclusion of parties based on their size, membership, or electoral results from templates. Being a "smaller party" is not a valid reason for removal. Per WP:NPOV guidelines, we ought to highlight a wide array of diverse parties. Currently, the listed examples are mostly from Western Europe, directly violating this policy. Further, you alone do not WP:OWN this template and inclusion should be based on policy, not your personal preference. Regards, Archives908 (talk) 13:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The CD parties for those three nations are both large and successful in comparison to the fringe Armenian parties. For example, an article on the Democratic Rally of Cyprus is available in 35 languages, while the Christian Democratic Union of Armenia is only available in English and the Christian-Democratic Rebirth Party only in three languages. And the Christian Social People's Party has been the largest party in Luxembourg for 80 years. Most parties in the list are Western for the simple reason that CD is primarily a Western ideology, but prominent examples from other continents are also represented, such as the Kataeb Party of Lebanon and the National Action Party of Mexico. You should stop pushing for including fringe parties in this template, because there is no room for it. Trakking (talk) 14:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Please point to the precise Wiki policy which outright bans "minor" parties from inclusion in politics-related templates. There is no guideline that explicitly states a template must have links which have articles on other wikis to warrant inclusion on templates on Eng wiki. There are other dubious articles linked to this template which also may not meet WP:N guidelines, some only receiving just a handful of daily views. But, alas, they are included. The point is, the template should highlight a variety of examples on this topic- whether they are "popular" or "not as popular". Per WP:WEIGHT- pages should have fair representation. We certainly do not need to list dozens and dozens of more minor parties, but a few would help diversify the examples from just Western European ones. Christian Democracy may have had its origin in Western Europe, but it is no longer just a Western European political ideology and this template must better reflect that fact. Archives908 (talk) 19:20, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The principle of diverse representation is not superior to the principle of notability. However, I have two proposals for you: either 1) find a more successful CD party in Armenia and add it instead, or 2) we make a compromise and remove the lesser known party (Christian Democratic Union of Armenia) and keep the other one (Christian-Democratic Rebirth Party) despite its obscurity in relation to the other prominent parties. After all, Armenia is the most Christian nation on earth, and it would be nice to see it represented in this template. Trakking (talk) 20:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: And that was precisely my point, highlighting a few examples from other regions of the world isn't a bad thing. It reflects that CD isn't solely a "European/Western phenomena". That's fair, we could remove Christian Democratic Union of Armenia and replace it with National Christian Party (Armenia), which does currently maintain political representation at the municipal level. The Christian-Democratic Rebirth Party, just announced a coalition with 3 other parties to take on the gov't as an oppositional force in the upcoming national elections, so there will be more WP:N to come. I'm also not opposed if you want to add maybe 1 or 2 more examples, perhaps from South America, Oceania, or Africa? I won't push hard on this however, because, I too hate overly cluttered templates. So, I will leave that up to you to decide. Thoughts? Archives908 (talk) 22:36, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: We could replace CDUA with NCP, if you want, but one party is enough to represent Armenia, so we would have to remove CDRP. I will go ahead and add another Latin American party to the list. Trakking (talk) 22:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Then perhaps CDRP should remain, since it will garner more attention in the coming months. Archives908 (talk) 23:10, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of minor parties