Talk:Telectronics/Archive

message: When are you unfaced individuals going to wake up to the snakes in the garss trying to rewrite the histor of Telectronics?
There are a number of unpublished refferences on this entry. The Wickapedia rules say that this is not allowed. Please explain this to the great unwashed! Concerned intelegant reader
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.217.48.79 (talk • contribs) 09:34, July 10, 2006   (UTC) 
:Please do not remove published references from articles as you the IP address  which left the preceding comment did here. This is considered vandalism. To do so and leave and edit summary of "knowingly published bulshit" [sic] shows that you are actually not simply a concerned reader but in fact a violator of the Wikipedia neutral point of view policy. You have no given basis for your claim. Your attack on the integrity of the article just minutes after complaining about it makes it difficult for me to assume good faith.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 14:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is required is that references be verifiable. Being published is one part of that. I am not in a position to determine the reliability of the published sources in this article. Please provide an explanation as to why the "knowingly published" source is "bulshit"  and not reputable.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 14:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: unpublished refferences

message: You are history rewriter
Artificial pacemaker - BiocrawlerSee also Wickham heart pacemaker. {unsigned comment 0416 11 Sept 2006 by 124.168.31.133}
The writer 124.168.31.133 seems to be confusing search words with an article title. 
I am User Geoffrey Wickham Co-founder of the company Telectronics Pty Ltd. Persistant modifications to the page are being made by Christopher Gray, son of other co-founder, the late Noel Gray using IP's including 203.217.84.96, 203.214.139.165, 203.214.136.14, 203.206.228.34, 203.217.65.47, 203.158.46.74, 203.206.228.56,210.84.38.207,203.206.254.253,203.217.56.233,203.158.52.94.
C Gray was a boy at the time of the historical events & has made no effort to check the veracity of his view of history by open minded discussion with any of the other persons who were involved in the early years of the company. In those contacts which he has made with others, including me, he has resorted to shouting insults if their view disagrees with his.
His edits are intended to carry forward inaccuracies, fantasy and defamation contained in the private publication "Telectronics, The Early Years", Gray N D & Gray C J, 1994. (could you please provide information that establishes that the book is fanciful and defamatory?)
Of greatest concern to me, in his latest edits, is deletion of the names Jeffcoat and Nicks whose research and contact with Telectronics led to the company commencing cardiac pacemaker research in 1964. (Could you please provide verifiable refferences for this assertion)
Feb 2nd 2006 GW. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Geoffrey Wickham (talk • contribs) 02:51, February 1, 2006  (UTC)
Apolgies, I have now learned how to 'sign'.none 05:09, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I will note that there is only circumstantial evidence that these IPs are related to Christopher Gray. And that the other claims here are yet to be verified. —WAvegetarianTALKCONTRIBSEMAIL 19:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit war [[Telectronics]]

message: The allegation that Telectronics followed this work is false and irrational as there were totally implantable pacemakers being implanted in patients in Australia from 1961. To fail to acknowledge the views of the managing director Noel Gray as written in his book Telectronics the early years is biased. By the way the work was reported in the Medical Journal of Australia and was originally an ideah of Abrahms and a device was made for Dr Nicks by ex-Kriesler engineer Eddy Hume. Please read the Medical Journal article and do not accept one view above others as this is biased and not displaying academic rigor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.158.51.34 (talk • contribs) 
:Please type ~~~~ at the end of your comments. This creates an automatic signature, so we can keep track of who is saying what. Cnwb 23:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Re Radiofrequency generator powering implanted electrode in 1962-3

message: Vandalism is occuring on the Telectronics site by a 19 yo who is biased as he has not recognised references pointed out on the site. This has resulted in one view being promoted in favour of Wickham and Jefacot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.248.118 (talk • contribs) 
:First off, my age is irrelevant. Second off, that isn't my age. Third off, I have looked at some, and in fact added to, the list of references. The stuff I've found online contradicts your edits. —WAvegetarian•CONTRIBUTIONSTALK• EMAIL• 23:35, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What refferences has Wickapedian WAvegetarian sourced to be an expert on the history of Telectronics? 

message: I have today once again emailed Christopher Gray,in a courteous manner,in the hope that common sense might prevail in resolving this dispute without it having to go to arbitration. A reply was requested. It would probably be beneficial if a copy of "Telectronics - The Early Years" is read by an editor in Australia. Chris would probably co-operate in this.
Should the dispute need to go to arbitration I shall accept the decision of the arbitrators.none 02:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: from Geoffrey Wickham

message: No recent discussion.  Time to edit. --Tony Sidaway 00:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unprotecting

message: This edit reconciles the numerical notations in the text with the footnotes. Some footnotes not referred to in the text were deleted while some footnotes of relevence were moved to 'Sources'.It is my hope that C Gray will find these changes to be in the best interest of the encyclopedic quality of the entry.My first edit of 3/23 inexpicably was 'saved' before editing was completed, hence the 2nd edit.Geoffrey Wickhamnone 04:12, 23 March 2006 (UT
Refference (sic)  material should be published in accordance with Wickapedia rules ./// For the fourth time please type none 03:34, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: edit of 23 March 2006

message: If you look at this source you will see support both for Wickham being an engineer and acquisition by Nucleus. Any changes refuting this will be seen as vandalism. —WAvegetarian•CONTRIBUTIONSTALK• EMAIL• 14:01, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  April edits=vandalism 

message: Christopher Gray has continued to delete and modify the article page using multiple IP's and without signing by four tildes since the page was unprotected by Tony Sidaway March 13. I have twice emailed him rebutting the comments he has posted on this discussion page but he has failed to answer my mails. He appears to be obsessed with his version of history, for which he claims to have "support" of others but fails to provide evidence of support by any others either by providing that evidence to me or by publishing in 'discussion'.
It is time for the page to once again be protected.Geoffrey Wickham.  none 03:09, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: vandalism

message: Keith Jeffcoat was a journalist for Radio and Hobbies in the 60's and a part time jaz musician he was not a scientist nor was he the originator for Telectronics' entry into medical electronics. Telectronics was not started with the objects to only make industrial electronics. The Objects of the company include statements that suport an entry to medical electronics. If the Articles Objects did not Telectronics would not have been able to do this because of the legal Doctrine of Ultra Vares. This doctrine prevents a company from acting outside its stated Objects contained in its Articles of Association. This means that it is misleading to make the statement that Telectronics was set up with limited Objects to only work on products for industry. (CHris Gray BA LL B)
The statements above are refuted.
Re Jeffcoat : 1) See citations under heading "Edit War". 2) Jeffcoat was not a journalist for 'Radio & Hobbies', he was a staff journalist of 'Electronics Australia' in 1963-4. 3) Jeffcoat conducted cardiac pacemaker research at Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, including the design of an implantable pacemaker which survived 9 months of canine implant in 1963-4. 4)
Jeffcoat visited Telectronics in early 1964 showing the explanted canine pacemaker. This visit was pivotal to the decision by Telectronics to commence pacemaker research. 5) Between 1964 and 1967 Jeffcoat, while CEO of Weston Electronics, gave of his time without charge to Telectronics in conducting animal research At RPAH & RNSH in collaboration with me and Lab. technician Ray Kearns. 6) Jeffcoat became an employee of Telectronics in 1968 and had at least one US patent granted in his name assigned to Telectronics.   The attempts by C Gray to exclude Jeffcoat from the Wikipedia article "Telectronics" are deplorable.   
Re "ultra vires" : 1) The stated objectives of Telectronics, at incorporation in 1963, recited a) To design manufacture instal and maintain instruments and eqipment for science and industry b) To conduct research and experiment in the future development of specialised electronics equipment. (no mention of medical equipment or cardiac pacemakers). The letterhead of Telectronics from 1963 - 1965 read " Development design and manufacture - sales and service of electronic measuring controlling and recording equipment for science and industry" [source: " Telectronics - The Early Years" Gray ND & Gray CJ, page 9]
--Geoffrey Wickham 06:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jeffcoat

message: Refer to edit of 6.20 UTC 21 July 2006 by 58.167.9.157 [by me, my log-on dropped out during editing]. My objective in initiating the Article 'Telectronics' was to provide an accurate historical record of the contribution made to medical technology by the company. It should be noted that the Article does not contain glorification of me. My contribution has been well recognised. Refer to Geoffrey Wickham
Repeated changes have been made to the Article by Christopher Gray, son of the co-founder of Telectronics Pty Ltd, in attempts to glorify his late father.  The changes made to the Article, particularly in those immediately preceeding my re-edit of 21 July, contain statements which are seriously defamatory.  Defamation is not tolerable.  Any further publication of statements defamatory to me will result in a Civil court action against Gray. I shall not be further editing the article. Instead, three persons who were closely associated with the company in its formative years have volunteered to monitor the Article.Geoffrey Wickham
This is an intersting comment since the original article was entitled "The Wickham Pacemaker" could Mr Wickham please explaine this? [Bemused reader]Unsigned comment added 11.25 21 July 2006 by 124.168.19.209. A track back to the original article shows the comment to be untrue, it was headed "Telectronics".60.230.98.5 02:28, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Defamation

message: The above interpolated posting between  was by 124.168.27.153 20.48 6 October 2006.Geoffrey Wickham 03:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Comment 

message: As stated by Cnwb this page is a mess & also is in excess of 39 Kb's.article size. To exclude further "mess" would it be possible to block edits not signed by four tildes ?
The article History is also a mess. Would it not be possible to block editing of the Article by other than registered users? This would not compromise the objectives of Wikipedia because, seemingly, there is only a single non-registered user editing changes to the Article.Geoffrey Wickham 02:42, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion to Administrators

message: There has recently been a spate of anonymous IP addresses contributing to this discussion. Could these users please follow the correct procedure for Wikipedia Talk Pages; responses to other comments do not go in brackets throughout the comments, but should be placed after the entire comment you are replying to. Also, please use ~~~~ after your comments, so that people can keep track of who is saying what. For more information, please see the header I've added at the top of this page. Cnwb 23:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conduct of discussion 

message: The dictionary definition of "founder" is associated with the one who "institutes for the first time". Since it was Noel Gray's idea to start a medical electronics company and Wickham denies that he ever had any intention of going into medical electronics until, he asserts, he met Dr Nicks and jeffcoat in 1964, Noel Gray was the founder of the medical electronics business Telectronics. He and he alone devised this when he was working at Kriesler from 1953-59, where he even made an implantable pacemaker. (according to his former work collegues)
According to Australian journal the Buletin in what appears to read as an interview with Wickham he asserts that he was first drawn into this essoteric area in 1963, this contradicts his new assertion that it was 1964 and does not explain Noel Gray's publicly stated aim to start a business in medical electronics in the 50's as supported by his former collegues.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by  210.84.33.240 (talk • contribs) 01:13, 19 November 2006  (UTC)
:So now you're arguing semantics. That's fine.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 04:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC
User 210.84.33.240 makes a curious statement "made an implantable pacemaker" in "1953-'59", as the first implantable pacemaker is generally attributed to Rune Elmqvist and Senning in 1958. Refer Artificial pacemaker, history. Their design was not successful because of the technological limitations of germanium transistors and the nickel-cadmium batteries available at that time. The first commercial silicon transistor was the Fairchild type 2N697 of 1958. (pbs.org/transistor/science/events/silicon 1. html). The first succesful implantable pacemaker is generally attributed to Wilson Greatbatch in 1962; the latter using silicon transistors and the RM1 mercuric-oxide zinc battery cell developed for Greatbatch by Mallory USA.144.131.187.62 01:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Founder