Talk:John Serry Sr.

message: Main writer asserted "I am one of the composer's son." about his eulogic articles American Rhapsody and John Serry, Sr.. 62.147.36.251 (talk) 15:45, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  COI 

message: I've done a first pass subbing:
* Put all dates into WP:MoS compliance, fixed slips with punctuation, abbreviations etc. in dates.
* Put all variations of page numbers "Pg.", "P." etc to "p."
* Replaced "Serry, Sr." in most places with "Serry".
* Moved external links to the pages listed as external links where there are wikilinks.
* General subbing, adding of internal links, remove excess whitespace, caps, etc. Put lists as best as possible into chronological order. 
The main thing now is to get the references into order. The New York Times ones are flooding it and I am not sure what to do about that; but beyond that the external links need to be made into proper references. Until one gets a first pass done and can see the meat for the potatoes, there's little point: so I'll leave that for a second pass. This does mean some references are very bald right now i.e. simply numbers; I can't help that.
Hope this is in the right direction. If I come  back and find a new reference with "Pg." or "John Serry, Sr." (See Wikipedia:MOS#Titles_of_people) I will have to get out the virtual baseball bat. SimonTrew (talk) 00:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subbing 

message: Since WP:MoS now regards commas before Sr and Jr as outdated, and the article does not use them, I propose the title of the articles should not use them either. SimonTrew (talk) 00:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: As the primary author of the article John Serry, Sr. I do not object to using the title John Serry Sr. on this article. If it is at all possible, kindly retain the use of the suffix Sr. so that the title of this article is not confused with the article about the musician's son (who is alive and utilizes the name John Serry professionally in his capacity as a musician). Perhaps some method can be utilized to differentiate between the two musicians so as to avoid confusing potential readers. In addition, kindly excuse the extensive use of the suffix Sr. throughout the article. Once again, my hope was to avoid confusing readers who might confuse these two musicians while researching John Serry's current professional activities. Also note that the article entitled John Serry, Jr. is more properly titled as John Serry since this musician is still alive and known professionally as John Serry (try a Google search to verify) Thank you for your understanding and kind assistance. --Pjs012915 (talk) 15:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it kinda makes sense for Jr. to be primary then, under WP:BLP. But anyway, I simply changed the notation within the article; after defining who John Serry Sr. is then you can simply say Serry; where there's any doubt it's still spelt in full. Wp:MOS dislikes commas and periods (full stops) on this but that's pretty minor stuff right now I think. SimonTrew (talk) 22:42, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to move 

message: Dear User:Magicpiano Thank you again for your insights. While it is true that the deletion review for the articles American Rhapsody and Concerto For Free bass Accordion established that the subject matter which they contain is not notable for use in separate articles, it is also apparent that several reviewers found the content to be worthy of being retained within the body of the parent article about the composer (hence the decision to merge content). One reviewer even questioned the logic of expecting to uncover independent analysis through internet searching of these works (to establish notability) in so far as: 1) they were composed prior to the establishment of internet databases 2) they were composed for an instument which was routinely excluded from classical orchestral ensembles during the pre-war and post war period in America (See Accordion (use in classical music) and 3) they were composed for an innovative free-bass configuration of the instrument which was largely unknown by the general public and ochestral conductors in the US at that time ((See Free-bass system use in classical music). This comprehensive analysis suggests that the notability of the content contained within the articles is not likely to be established through independent third party confirmation. It does not follow logically , however, that they cannot be appropriately classified as worthy of inclusion within the parent article about the composer. The detailed description of the compositions serves to shed light on the composer's musical style and the influence of various composers on his thoughts. In addition, they serve to provide an insight into the development of musical compositions for an instrument which had been historically accepted in within the European tradition of classical music history but not in the USA. Evidently, the editors of Wikipedia Italy agree with this analysis since they list an Italian translation of the Wikipedia
article "American Rhapsody" as an independent article. The existence of this independent article on Wikipedia Italy suggests that doubts concerning the notability of the content of these articles are perhaps misplaced. While it may be possible to edit the content relating to the compositions further, it should be undertaken by a knowledgable editor who has a knowledge of musicolgy and harmonic structure in order to retain the appropriate content without sacrificing important details. Perhaps, however, it would be best to direct resolution of this issue to the attention of an editor who has expert knowledge of music history, harmony and musicology by attatching an Expert|musicology tag to the article. Thanks again --Pjs012915 (talk) 14:13, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Musical style-Advanced compositions

message: Dear Experts: The section of this article marked Musical Style - Advanced Compositions requires the attention of an editor with expertise in Classical Musicology or Classical Music Composition for Cleanup Tag resolution editing.   Kindly examine the text for the two compositions entitled American Rhapsody and Concerto For Free Bass Accordion in reference to concerns about the presence of the detailed information concerning the composer's musical style. The content for both compositions was merged onto the composer's article as a result of a deletion review but some questions remain as to how much of the original articles should be retained. The deletion review specifically recommended that the contents of the article should be retained on Wikipedia and merged into the parent article due to the notability of the composer. (See discussion above with me and the User:Magicpianoin Musical Style Advance Compositions section above). Kindly examine the text to determine whether the text should be excised out of the article entirely ( as some editors have advocated) or retained in an abbreviated form within the parent article as I believe the final decision of the deletion review panel suggests (See American Rhapsody redirect discussion page for deletion review discussionWikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Rhapsody). Should you agree that the text should be retained due to its relevance (and notability as evidenced by its presence on Wikipedia - Italy as a separate article entitled American Rhapsody), kindly remove the Cleanup Tag and retain the important musicological and harmonic references for the benefit of interested musicologists and researchers. I would gladly edit the text myself, but lack the necessary musicological expertise. In the event that you determine that further editing or cleanup of this text is not required, kindly notify User:magicpiano of your decision so as to expedite removal of the Cleanup tag at the top of the parent article. In addition, kindly explore the possibility of preserving the merged content as part of a second window which can be opened from within the main parent article for the benefit of readers. This would serve to conceal the details of the composition from readers who are primarily interested in the composer's article while preserving important details about the composer's musical style--thereby addressing some of the objections raised by other editors concerning the parent article's overall length.Thanks again for your assistance --Pjs012915 (talk) 14:56, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See current discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music#Classical accordion? --Francis Schonken (talk) 13:23, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Expert-talk Musical style Advanced Compositions

message: There are compositions by that name by (to name two) Delius and Dohnanyi - why does that link redirect here? Most odd, Watson. Most odd. Schissel | Sound the Note! 03:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear SchisselSound the Note!- I am the original author of the article mentioned above. The link for American Rhapsody was redirected to this musician's article as a result of a deletion review decision (See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Rhapsody) earlier this year. It was determined that the contents of this article as well as the article entitled Concerto For Free Bass Accordion should be merged within the main article describing this musician's contributions as a composer to the advancement of the accordion as a serious solo concert instrument and classical orchestral instrument in the early 20th century. I hope that this helps to clarify any confusion. Thanks for your interest and I look forward to any contributions which you might be able to make to the cleanup activities associated with the parent article. Thanks again for your interest..
--Pjs012915 (talk) 14:23, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

text: This may be an interesting solution. I am not so certain, however, that someone searching for the title American Rhapsody is more likely to be seeking the movie with a similar title. Kindly keep in mind, however, that Wikipedia Italy has translated the article American Rhapsody into Italian within its Musical Portal. :
Evidently, Wikipedia's editors in Italy consider the composition to be noteworthy and worthy of
inclusion as a separate article. It might be best to keep this in mind before removing the
redirect link since musicology researchers in Europe might wish to investigate the composer's full biographical article in English after learing of his composition in Italian. In any case, the confusion between the title of the movie and the title of the composition might easy be resolved through the disambiguation of the title of the musical comsposition to American Rhapsody (Composition). Just a thought--thanks for your interest.  --Pjs012915 (talk) 16:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why does [[American Rhapsody]] redirect here? 

message: * "Leone Jump", not "Leona Jump", please follow spelling of the original publications;
* recorded "Sep-45", not "1947", per the provided clemson.edu source, please don't confuse "recording" date and "release" date;
* first released 1946, not 1947, please don't confuse original release date (, also already discussed in Billboard in April 1946 per reference given in article) and dates of later re-issues 
Wikipedia is not a channel for approximative, but wrong, information: if you can't get it right it will be removed from the article.
* "This ... demonstrates ..." is called editorialising: unless an established, reliable, publication asserts it "demonstrates" we can not use such wording in Wikipedia. In Wikipedia, we can not expand in our own words on what is found in external publications. Wikipedia contains a summary of these external publications (if a Wikipedia reader wants to read the full text they should see the original source, per the given reference, and not find out that Wikipedia has "more" than is actually in the publication which is used as reference).
* The 1956 Squeeze Play review in Billboard is shorter than all the combined text Wikipedia references to it. This is a no-no: summarizing means making shorter than the original.
So again the section on style is veering out of control: fix it or the entire section will be removed. --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:58, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Schonken: thank you once again for your thoughtful analysis--So sorry for the typographical errors --in so far as Serry's music performance style has already been preserved and archived within the National Library of France's Online audio archive for all for enjoy, I see no reason to 
initiate a controversial debate on the topic--As per your suggestions  it has been entirely eliminated. Thanks again and good luck 47.21.83.122 (talk) 13:43, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: In so far as the entire Musical Style/Performance Style section of the article John Serry Sr. has been deleted as per objections cited above by Francis Schonken and Anne Delong, the removal of a banner which flags the article as a "personal reflection/opinions essay" which is founded upon "primary sources" published by the subject of the article should be eliminated. No other specific instances of the excessive utilization of "primary reference sources" or "personal refletons/opinions" within the main body of the article have been identified by either Francis Schonken or Anne Delong.  Also kindly note that Anne Delong indicates on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical music talk page that she is not an expert in classical music and is not comfortable making such sweeping changes to an article such as this ( See her remarks to Schonken & Arendt - "Francis Schonken and Gerda Arendt, I appreciate your input and participation. I am not an expert in the area of classical music (I am more into traditional folk genres) and I am a little uncomfortable in making so many serious changes to a B class article. There's also some relevant discussion on my talk page if you are interested.—Anne Delong (talk) 17:23, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia provides a correct summary of well-established publications

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on John Serry Sr.. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110707072342/http://www.aamsaccordionfestival.com/2005/ettore.html to http://www.aamsaccordionfestival.com/2005/ettore.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:39, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on John Serry Sr.. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060528201555/http://www.local802afm.org/publication_entry.cfm?xEntry=23736371 to http://www.local802afm.org/publication_entry.cfm?XEntry=23736371
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:54, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Ciao Fellow Wikipeida Editors: As per the instructions posted at the top of the article by the Wikipedia Classical Music Project () I have removed the info box for the page and also resized the photographs and the External Audio Links Boxes and improved the syntax contained within the boxes as per Wikipedia guidelines for the use of italics around the titles of songs within these boxes. I Hope this is OK. 160.72.80.178 (talk) 22:13, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi fellow Wikipedians. I added a smaller Info-Box (for persons as suggested by the Wikipedia Biography Project rather than the Wikipedia CLassical Music Project) which does not crowd the text of the article as much as the previous Info Box. I hope this is Ok. Thanks. 160.72.81.86 (talk) 17:23, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of Infobox as per Wikipedia Project Classical Music guideline posted in the text of the article

message: Cioa fellow Wikipedia editors: Minor edit==> As per the template at the top of the page I've included some text and a reference citation for the compilation album "Ballroom in Dreamland" on the Dot Records label which includes performances by Serry and performances by the Billy Vaughn Orchestra. I hope this is OK. Thanks again for your assistance. Enjoy!160.72.81.86 (talk) 14:31, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional reference citation added for additional record album 

message: Hi to fellow Wikipedia editors ==> As per the template posted at the top of the page, I have included an additional reference 
citation related to the names of John Serry Sr.'s  wife and his four children as posted in a biography about his son (the jazz pianist named John Serry Jr.) which appeared in "The Encyclopedia of Jazz Musicians" on jazz.com. I hope this is a reliable and acceptable source. Thanks for your consideration 160.72.80.178 (talk) 14:47, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional reference  citation added  as per request in template at top of page 

message: Hi again ===> included an additional reference citation for John Serry Sr. changing his family's name from Serrapica to Serry as posted in a biography about his son (the jazz pianist named John Serry Jr.) which appeared in "The Encyclopedia of Jazz Musicians" on jazz.com. I hope this is a reliable and acceptable source. Thanks again for your consideration. 160.72.80.178 (talk) 15:06, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional reference citation added as per request in template for a change of his family's name 

message: Hi again ===> included an additional reference citation for John Serry Sr.'s original family name of Serrapica coming from Gragnano,Italy near Naples as posted in a biography about his son (the jazz pianist named John Serry Jr.) which appeared in "The Encyclopedia of Jazz Musicians" on jazz.com. I hope this is a reliable and acceptable source. Thanks again for your consideration.160.72.80.178 (talk) 15:23, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional reference citation added as per request in template-- the Serrapica family name is from Gragnano, Italy 

message: An additional reference citation was added for the DOT Records audio recording featuring performances by the Billy Vaughn Orchestra and by John Serry Sr. as released in Japan.160.72.80.178 (talk) 15:32, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional reference citation added: For record Dot Record Album featuring [[Billy Vaughn]]'s Orchestra 

message: A quick note: Some additional content with three verifiable references from The New York Times (as found accessed on Proquest New York Times) from the year 1931 has been added -- indicating Serry (using his birth name John Serrapica) performed on the Italian radio station WOR (now known as WADO) on at a minimum of three live broadcasts as an accordion soloist during the earliest years of his career following his first broadcast at the age of 15 in 1930 on the WCDA rardio station. I hope it helps to fill in some of the gaps. in some small way Thanks!160.72.81.86 (talk) 18:25, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional Content and References added for performances on Italian  [[WADO]] radio 

message: Just a quick note -- additional reference citations have been included from the JOHN J. SERRY SR. Collection archive of musical scores and audio performances by John Serry Sr as archived at the University of Rochester's Eastman School of Music as shown here: Eastman School of Music - University of Rochester - Sibley Music Library: John J. Serry Sr. Collection archived at the University of Rochester Eastman School of Music I hope that it helps..160.72.80.178 (talk) 00:40, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Excellent - this seems like a good reference site of original scores and arrangements by Serry which have been professionally reviewed and compiled by archivists at one of the nation's leading music conservatories-- so I helped you along by including this site as a reference citation for additional compositions and also used the site as a source for additional compositions by Serry. Thanks for the outstanding research effort. Here is the pdf file for the archive.  John J. Serry Sr Collection archive at the University of Rochester Eastman School of Music Sibley Music Library - Ruth T. Watanabe Special Collections on esm.rochester.edu160.72.81.86 (talk) 18:06, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Included additional reference citations from the archive at the [[Eastman School of Music]] 

message: Hi fellow editors: Just a quick note. I have included text for the album "Pietro Deiro Presents the Accordion Orchestra" on Coral Records (#CRL-57323, 1960) which includes performances by John Serry as a member of the orchestra. The album was reviewed on The Billboard magazine and received high praise from the critics. An additional source from the magazine "Music Trades" verifies his performance in the orchestra. The album cover also identifies him as a performer in the orchestra who has worked under such conductors as Alfredo Antonini, Shep Fields and Mitch Miller, so I have included a link for Mitch Miller at the top of the article as well. Hope it all helps. Happy Editing to All72.69.152.90 (talk) 16:05, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional text and reference citations included for the album ''Pietro Deiro Presents the Accordion Orchestra''