Talk:2007 Tour de France

message: The suggestion that Stage 2 will have to be short - the stage is starting from nearby the French end of the channel tunnel, the stage before ends near the English end. It takes about 35 minutes to go from one end to the other by Eurostar, so this isn't a particularly long transit. Therefore I'm not convinced this speculation is founded. Average Earthman 13:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Replaced that with a statement of fact (it will follow their crossing of the channel) --Aioth 03:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stage 2 

message: There must be a date at which it is decided which teams can enter the Tour de France 2007, if it is not already decided. Unfortunately, I searched but I cannot find this date. Similarly, there must be a date at which the list of cyclists entering the Tour is made public. Again, I searched but I could not find the date. Both dates can be mentioned in the article, and would improve the content. Can somebody find these dates?
Secondly, although the list of competitors is yet to be determined, there are already some thoughts about who are important contestants. The 2006 Tour de France also had such a list. If there is some reliable source of information about who are suggested to win the 2007 Tour, it should be included in this article. Of course I can make my own list of favorite competitants, but because I'm not a sports authority, it is not Wikipedia-worthy. --Pie.er 17:13, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that this year, we will only be sure of the final entry list on July 6 (i.e. the Unibet situation). Similarly, Operacion Puerto could once again deprive the race of the best riders (or liberate the race of cheaters?) literally as they take to the starting ramp.... The list of riders is not final until the evening before when they sign in and have physical checks. Indeed, I think the Tour allows a rider to be replaced on the day (Matt White or someone a few years back injured himself warming up?). So, in essence, there isn't really a day, and the date lacks importance anyway. :S SeveroTC 17:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that Agritubel is in the race along with 19 ProTour teams (all but Unibet), but I don't know if there is still more teams in the race --BleuDXXIV 08:57, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not done yet: Tour de France: Barloworld in, Unibet out? SeveroTC 11:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But it is now :), Tour de France wildcards awarded SeveroTC 17:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cyclists 

message: I tagged the Pre-race favourites section with an original research tag as, without citations, it is personal opinion. This needs to be cited from a reliable source, or we'll have to remove it. Regards, SeveroTC 20:32, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are very few press releases yet about Tour favourites, but I tried to make it less personal by referring to bookmakers. If the bookmakers say Vinokourov has a return rate* of 1:2, this makes him a Tour favourite, doesn't it? If this enough to make it not original research? *: I'm sorry if this is the wrong term, but I'm not really into betting... --Pie.er 08:16, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't find anything against using betting odds so it seems like a good idea! I've removed the original research tag. SeveroTC 09:34, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pre-race favourites - original research 

message: Could whoever made the map or whoever understands it please describe the difference between the red and green lines? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.248.131.103 (talk) 15:06, June 27, 2007
*It's quite simple. The red lines show the route taken by the cyclists when racing; the green lines show the overnight movements from the finish of one day's racing to the start of the next. Hope that's all clear. Daemonic Kangaroo 19:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: It seems apallingly Anglocentric that the article has fairly detailed stage descriptions for the English stages, and none for the rest of the race.  The same accusation could be made against the lead paragraph.  It is called the Tour de France!  Kevin McE 14:03, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stage descriptions 

message: Andy Schleck was tipped to be a major contender before the race started as he had a very good Giro, he was at 50-1 with most bookmakers but as he is not riding should he be included in the section under the table which includes Cunego and such? --GOD 09:47, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pre Race Favourites 

message: I've reinstated the links to 2007 Tour de France, Prologue to Stage 10 and 2007 Tour de France, Stage 11 to Stage 20 instead of having a copy both on this page and the linked. This worked well, but if there is a good reason to have all twenty summaries on the main page, I'd be happy to change. --Aioth 13:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stage Summaries 

message: How to decide the combativity if more than one rider leading the race for most of the time? --Aleenf1 15:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wiki editors are not deciding this (that would be POV and unverifiable): it is awarded by the race officials.  ISTR there is a poll among the journalists, but I am not very confident on that. Kevin McE 23:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

text: There is "most combative" rider of each stage and after the race overall "most combative" rider of the whole race. Has been like that since 2003. The most combative listed in the jersey progress is the one of the each stage, as he has race number on red background. --BleuDXXXIV 07:35, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combativity 

message: I've made the profiles of the 6 mountainstages (7, 8, 9, 14, 15 & 16). Here you can find them and see here for an example. Afhaalchinees 18:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice one! SeveroTC 18:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stage profiles 

message: Apparently the fact that Danielson was a pre-race favorite according to the bookmakers should be referenced. I tried to do it, but I couldn't because the skybet page is not archived. I do have a clue for those who don't believe it: on 13:34, 14 June 2007 I updated this article and added the bookmakers odds for the first time, and there was Tom Danielson. (see here)
At that time, skybet and sportingbet gave him the same chance of winning the Tour de France as they did with Rasmussen :)
I know this is not convincing enough to put it in the article, but it might be of some value for personal interest. Personally I don't have any idea why Danielson should be considered a favorite for winning the Tour, but apparently the bookmakers did. 
If it is possible to find the original skybet page (or an alternative betting page), please cite it.--Pie.er 10:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was me who removed the non-racers from the list of favourites on the morning of the grand départ, but thought it worth mentioning that they had been strongly considered (I apparently managed to miss out on Marchante, though why anyone would have bought him at 24/1 I'm not sure).  I hope no offence was caused.  I would suggest that you put as a reference your original link to bookmakers, with the addition "accessed on 14 June" (or whatever the date was).  This is, in principle, verifiable, although only if somebody goes to the bookmaker in question and gets permission to access their web-site archive.  Of course this is difficult, but there again, references to published books, newspapers and radio/TV broadcasts are all over Wiki, and I can't access them quickly and easily whilst sitting at my computer either. Kevin McE 23:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was the one who added the  tag to Danielson. I'll admit that it was mostly out of surprise ("who the f is...?"), but I do feel that the odds for all the cyclists should be cited per WP:V and WP:CITE. I did find this Google cache for Danielson, but I can't read the figures, since I never bet. AecisBrievenbus 23:23, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Danielson pre-race favorite 

message: Should we mention the fact that the outcome of stage 13 is contested at the moment, pending the outcome of Vinokourov's B-sample? And does anyone know what will happen with Vino's victory in stage 15, if the B-sample of stage 13 comes back positive as well? Will he be disqualified retroactively, with the victory in stage 15 going to Kirchen? Or will the outcome of that stage depend solely on the outcome of Vino's doping test for that stage? Btw, I noticed that Vino's positive test hasn't been mentioned in 2007 Tour de France, Stage 11 to Stage 20#Stage 13 - 21 July 2007: Albi, 54 km (ITT) yet. AecisBrievenbus 23:31, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I understand it, from my reading on the Landis issue last year, the TdF organisers defer the decision on annuling results to the UCI, who in turn defer to the national association of the rider in question.  Hence it is in the hands of the US cycling federation as to how long Landis retains the title of 2006 Tour winner.  Assuming I have understood this correctly, it may take some time for any official change in the results to be promulgated, and an encyclopedia should not anticipate official decisions.  Maybe we can mark it with an asterisk to indicate that it is under review. Kevin McE 11:54, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on Vino 

message: I have tried to make a graph of the positions of the main contenders in the 2007 Tour de France. The result is shown in the right. I am currently not so happy about it, as it does not help much to make the progress clear. Any advice on what to do with this?
I already know I should add explanations to the axes, label the stages better ('P' in stead of '0' for the Prologue), change the order such that the number one position is on top of the list. But I'm afraid that will not be enough. Am I on a dead end, or can this graph still be made clear?
What I think would be more illustrative (but would take me far too much time) is to make a graph with the time gap with the yellow jersey. If someone else wants to try that ;) --Pie.er 08:03, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Positions graph 

message: what's the difference between DNS and DSQ?
:Did Not Start and Disqualified. --Mais oui! 13:02, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: DNS=Did Not Start, DSQ=Disqualified. And on that point, Vinokourov definitely has been DSQ'd. He was expelled from the tour as his team was "invited" to withdraw en masse. Nosleep1234 13:03, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source on that?  I do not think that the tour could have disqualified him before the B sample result, and the only press release I have seen from the organisers says that they have "obtained the withdrawal of the Astana team."  Kevin McE 13:16, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I think it shows that Vinokourov was no more disqualified than the rest of his team was, although he was the cause of their "retirement".  Whether they would have been disqualified had they refused to withdraw is conjecture.  Kevin McE 14:44, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's clear they withdrew anticipating a positive B-test. IMHO it is not right to say "Team withdrew from race after his positive A-test for blood doping." as a reason for Vinokorov, this may be the right reason for the rest of the team, but not for him. For him it should be "withdrawing anticipating disqualification after a positive test" or something. Greswik 16:27, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be speculative.  Neither you nor I know what Vinokourov was anticipating (though we might both be able to guess!) Kevin McE 16:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Speculation? Never heard of the Duck test? Come on. At some point, things get obvious. I say we are there in this case. Greswik 17:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If this were a journalistic endeavour, you might have a case, but it is an encyclopedia, and we can only state that which is verifiable and beyond doubt.  It cannot proved to be a duck, no matter how much like quacking that sound is to you or me.  Kevin McE 23:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Withdrawals

message: I created an article that refers exclusively to the doping issues of present Tour edition, due to the great magnitude they have reached. If anyone is interested on the subject you should check it out and provide information in order to complete it: it's really worth. (Doping at the 2007 Tour De France). Thanks to Hansm77 for the idea.
Mannschaftskapitän 21:13, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Doping scandal

message: I don't believe his name should be highlighted as wearing the white jersey, even though he of course is. When Gerdemann wore the yellow jersey, Soler was not indicated this way, nor was he when Rasmussen wore the yellow (instead of the polka-dot). While I realize those situations don't as such matter anymore (they only exist as ancient revisions of this article), I find I agree with the logic. If everyone feels differently, then fine, but rather than edit war (it'd be a candidate for WP:LAME, I'm sure), I thought I'd bring it up here. Nosleep1234 09:31, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Txurruka 

message: Don't you think that the section 'Doping Scandals' should be moved further in to the article Body? I mean, I know that it is a matter of first importance but I think that it is not located in the right place. It would be better if moved before or after the 'Withdrawals' section. Opinions? Mannschaftskapitän 21:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: On the section 'Doping Scandals'

message: According to my calculations, if there weren't any time bonuses the results would be:
1st Contador
2nd Evans +0:03
3rd Leipheimer +0:05
Just thought it was interesting.
69.178.52.88 04:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Might be right. However, Leipheimer got 10-second penalty due to push from his car on stage 8 I think. Probably you didn't count that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by BleuDXXXIV (talk • contribs) 11:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Time Bonuses

message: From the letour.fr site: the final points classification, bottom of the table.
 108.  	ARVESEN Kurt-Asle  	32  	TEAM CSC  	-1 pts
 109. 	EFIMKIN Alexander 	211 	BARLOWORLD 	-3 pts
 110. 	ARRIETA Jose Luis 	62 	AG2R PREVOYANCE 	-5 pts
 111. 	MERCADO Juan Miguel 	131 	AGRITUBEL 	-5 pts
 112. 	SCHOLZ Ronny 	97 	GEROLSTEINER 	-5 pts
 113. 	CAMANO Iker 	202 	SAUNIER DUVAL - PRODIR 	-10 pts
How can these cyclists have negative points? --Pie.er 08:18, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can have points or time taken off you for various misconducts. Things like drafting behind a car or holding on too long when grabbing a bidon usually result in time penalties, point penalties are usually for infringements in sprints and the like. There should be a page telling you each day when a rider was deducted points or time, but I'm not sure. SeveroTC 11:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If somebody finds such a page, put it in the Maillot vert (or Points classification?) article. It's not that important for the race, but to be complete. --Pie.er 18:48, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Found a source from a third party explaining very simple about punishments for infringements (http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/?id=features/FAQ). I'll see if I can weave it into the Maillot vert page. Regards, SeveroTC 16:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Green jersey points 

message: I've expanded the intro to try to roughly fit the way entries for previous years look. Please take a look and revise as necessary. I'm going to remove the intro template as well. Cogswobbletalk 16:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro 

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thread_title:  Dead link 

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thread_title:  Dead link 2 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified