Talk:Savannah cat

message: History is about the history of the breed, not about current prices, or SCAM organizations like lifestyle pets and Ashura cats, not about how much the cats weigh, and btw a 40lb savannah is an overweight cat. I have one of the largest F1 females around and she is 25lbs. Search Ruby "the other woman" on youtube for a video of her. I be emailing some key founding members of the breed from more input to the history section.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lifeatthesharpend (talk • contribs) 16:39, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: In the external link there is a "Bella Gattini Cattery" this appears to be a link to a Cattery or retail site. There are several breeders in the Savannah community around the world that are not being represented in this same way. Consider removing link
:Link has been removed. Thanks for notifying us. Kpstewart (talk) 04:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I've removed the link along with a non-sequitor story under Temperament. 72.240.193.160 (talk) 11:33, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

text: The link is to a commercial site that charges a fee to Savannah breeders to be included on list/website.  It is not an authoritative site for the Savannah breed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.151.45 (talk) 19:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

text: I remain skeptical. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ  Contrib.  16:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Spam

message: I am removing the Spam tag because it is obvious the community supports these breed sites. Only two negative comments (one by anonymous and the other by the person who initiated the Spam tag). However a big thank you to Finiteyoda for helping to look out for our breed on Wikipedia!! --pfkelley 09:06, 07 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The link is to a commercial site that charges a fee to Savannah breeders to be included on list/website.  It is not an authoritative site for the Savannah breed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.151.45 (talk) 19:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

text: I remain skeptical. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ  Contrib.  16:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Spam tag

message: The link to A1Savannahs is spam. The statement that they are the founder of the breed is not correct. Remove A1Savannahs as the original founder of the breed.  Current owner of A1Savannahs is not founder of the breed (Martin Stucki). This is an ad for a cattery. Article states that Joyce Sroufe with Patrick are founders and that Judee Frank originally cross bred the serval to a domestic cat.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lifeatthesharpend (talk • contribs) 23:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: A1Savannahs spam

message: I think the population estimate of 22,000 examples in 2001 is incorrect. The number is supposedly from:
http://www.s-i-m-b-a.org/graphics/brazil%20art2.pdf 
But it looks to me like it says "..estimate of not more than *200* examples". It would be good if someone else could confirm that I'm reading it right :-)  
Also, the current number of TICA registered Savannahs is 3366 (private email - response to a question to www.savannahcat.com). This might be useful to add, as population data is sparse.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Markir (talk • contribs) 02:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Population

message: Someone please checkout this web page:
http://www.alpinesavannahs.com/about%20savannahs.html
The wording of wikipedia savannah cats article is remarkably similar. Which came first?
Also check out this which sounds very similar!
http://www.savannahcat.com.au/ Christopedia (talk) 16:53, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Plagiarism

message: Does anyone know if these cats can be let outdoors on their own?  Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 22:36, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outdoors? 

message: There seems to be a lot of "medical opinion" in the medical opinion section that goes way beyond Wikipedia into veterinary type information. It seems to me that it would be appropriate to mention that there are concerns about anesthesia, for example, and that those concerns aren't agreed on by all.  But a listing of a bunch of drug names goes way too far. The only useful info to be gained from that detailed description is possibly for medical applications or guidance and Wikipedia doesn't seem like the right place for that.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.35.76.48 (talk) 17:03, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Savannah cat, health and temperament 

message: The "Ashera" article is a pretty much non-expandable stub about an attempt to scam people into thinking some Savannahs were a new breed. Does not need its own article, should just be a section here. It is well sourced, but having it be it's own article is utterly pointless. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ  Contrib.  16:09, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the merger. The sources in that article were very poor, and much of it seemed POV. Steven Walling • talk  01:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. All of that material now seems to be missing.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  16:00, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge proposed

message: I found the new location of a dead link but I am not familiar with the different reference templates that are available. This reference could probably do with formatting into the appropriate template. If I find time and remember I will look them up myself but in case I don't - I've noted it here.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielmee (talk • contribs) 04:14, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Updated Reference

message: A TICA breeder is supposed to require the new owner to spay, or neuter their new pet within twelve weeks of purchase, and withhold the necessary paperwork to prove the animal is worth what you paid until it is done. This is a monopolizing scam meant to lower breeder competition. It is unethical treatment of animals, forced to be done by the new pet owner so the breeder looks better at a glance (until you're buying from them and find out about the requirement). It is not only unethical because you are harming the animals directly, but also because it keeps the genetic diversity too small, and will ultimately cause inbreeding. And, it most likely falls under extortion, and/or blackmail laws, being illegal. If it's not officially falling under laws already, proposing a law that specifically addresses this will pass. If the breeder has no official contract with the buyer that the buyer has agreed to these terms, the breeder will lose a court case. Even if such a contract is had, once it changes ownership, the last owner has no say, period. Further... Allegedly, the goal of breeders is to create an official, standardized breed that does not require continuously using a serval... That goal will NEVER be reached if all savannah cats are getting spayed, and neutered. It makes it so the breeders with servals, whom are obviously very rich people to own a serval, are the monopolizers, and prevents the savannah cat breed from progressing as a breed. These people are corrupting the breed, and more interested and prestige of rarity than the animal's well-being. They are animal abusers, and criminals. TICA needs to be investigated.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.208.204.236 (talk) 21:11, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: TICA conflict of interest

message: This should cover some societal/legal stuff aside from ownership laws, like highly publicized cases of fraud due to costs sometimes being over US$10K.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  22:53, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Start by restoring the merged Ashera material (see a couple of threads above).  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  16:01, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cost, fraud 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Why is Ashera redirecting here when it is not mentioned in this article?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:09, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ashera 

message: what would happen 2A02:C7F:FE0D:AC00:417E:7F3A:E592:19B (talk) 01:12, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  what would happen if you bred one of these and a serval 

message: make it more neutral
"owners even shower with them" for example is biased 102.222.6.97 (talk) 11:05, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed. I'll look through the rest of the article but you're right that sentence doesn't belong on Wikipedia. People do all sorts of things with their cats, putting your cat in the shower isn't notable - just weird. Traumnovelle (talk) 06:58, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

text: I have just been going through this article removing all sorts of uncited cruft that had been lingering for years. What's shockingly absent from this article, short of an actual advertising jingle, is the welfare implications of the crossing of a serval with a domestic cat. The cat does not come off well, can be injured or even killed in the process, and may not even survive the birth of the F1 kittens. Finding a source for this was difficult, but we've got the Nat Geo article now as a good secondary WP:RS. "Because male servals are up to four times the size of a domestic cat, this can cause pregnancy complications, with the smaller mother giving birth to kittens 'bigger than her body was naturally meant to carry,' Tammy Theis [The Wildcat Sanctuary in Sandstone, Minnesota] says ... She, as well as the kittens, may not survive the encounter ... the mother may also be regarded as prey and scratched, bitten, or even killed by the male cat [Steve Crow, Cat Fancy, UK]" — Jon (talk) 21:46, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

text: Others above have also noted the Ashera scam(s) and other instances of breeder fraud, which have been removed from the article and definitely should be mentioned. The New Yorker article notes the inflated price people are willing to pay for F1-F2 animals, rather than the normal-sized and cheaper pure-breed Savannahs. Buyers can be targeted by wildlife traffickers. Haven't drummed up the fortitude to word all this into the article yet, given the usual amount of brigading from offended fans that tends to happen soon afterwards. — Jon (talk) 22:45, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  written like an advertisement 

message: @Jonathanischoice I removed the mention of other breeds as they have no relation to the Savannah and it's irrelevant and unfair to mention some breeds that are predisposed to the condition but not others when there is no relation between it and the article. The study itself states the predisposition in the Ragdoll and Maine Coon is 'because of myosin binding protein-C mutations', unless this mutation has been identified in the Savannah the study itself serves no bearing on the Savannah cat.
I possibly found the source study used for the HCM susceptibility for the Savannah in WebMD but it only mentions a single Savannah cat.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10227871/
Including the unrelated study as a reference also implies the information comes to the study to any reader who doesn't review the citation further. Traumnovelle (talk) 22:15, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure. There surely is an awful lot of junk out there about this breed in particular. — Jon (talk) 22:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mention of other breeds with susceptibility to HCM 

message: ?????? 208.68.56.222 (talk) 14:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, Wikipedia is not a forum and the talk page is for discussion of the article and it's content not for general questions about the subject unrelated to Wikipedia's coverage. I will be closing this discussion due to that. As to your question: we can only know numbers of any cat breed based on registrations with fancier organisations such as the Cat Fanciers' Association. You'd need to contact them (as well as all other registries that recognise the breed) or check their websites to find out that information. This article does mention the main registries that recognise the breed. Traumnovelle (talk) 18:41, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: On second thought I can't be completely sure if you're asking about why this article doesn't mention that. Wikipedia does not typically collect meaningless statistics such as animal registrations due to them ever-changing and that raw numbers presented without context do nothing to help the reader understand the subject, see WP:NOTSTATS for more information on that policy.  Traumnovelle (talk) 18:45, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  how many savannah cat are in the wourld