Talk:Juggling

message: Love the photo of the five ball juggling. Never have been able to master that one!
--Geezerpoop (talk) 04:03, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Five Balls

message: If you are going to add photos, images or animations to this page, make sure they are of a good quality. It really is no good to put a very, very poor quality gif animation at the top of the page, especially as it depicts a very unrealistic style of juggling. And it looks really, really bad. Please don't try to add it again.
I'm just curious about the picture labled as "Jay Gilligan and Kristen Wanvik" because in the article about types of juggling, it's labled as "Jay Gilligan and Jouni Temonen".  Which is it?
:I actually don't know the answer to your question myself, but I thought this might be a good place to drop a comment on the animation of the basic 3-ball pattern under the juggling notation section. Its a great animation which illustrates how to juggle very nicely - much easier than trying to explain it in words, or even pictures!
:By the way, I'm glad you removed the poor quality animation which used to be at the top of the page (I never saw it, but from what you said it sounded pretty pathetic). My only suggestion would be to try to replace it with something better if possible. I don't have any suggestions, unfortunately, but I think a replacement would be nice. It always looks good to have a quality picture or animation at the top of an article - especially one of such importance. Happy Juggling! Danthur (talk) 00:08, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  photos, images, and animations 

message: It has been "proven" to increase the size of your brain
Isn't it impossible to make your brain bigger just by engaging in a stimulating activity?  And why put "proven" in quotes?  Does anyone know what this is supposed to mean?  --Gypsum Fantastic 19:12, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Increasing the size of the brain 

message: Since I've no idea where this comes from but I'm sure I've heard it somewhere, would anyone care to comment on the following statement?
Some purist insist that true juggling only begins when the number of objects in the air at any given time is greater than the number of hands juggling the objects. For example, the standard 5 ball cascade is true juggling as at any given point there are at least 3 balls in the air with only 2 hands manipulating the pattern.
*****
Illiterate? Write for help ... P.O. Box ... Washington D.C. ...
visit me at http://tepy-at-houston-lake.blogspot.com/
Nope Absolutely untrue.  Even assuming you mean Toss juggling, as opposed numerous forms of juggling where no objects are tossed at all, just about ANY juggler will agree that Mills Mess is juggling.  Mills' mess doesn't fit your description.  User:Pedant 17:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Purist Question? 

message: The Help Desk received the following e-mail from Steve Mills of the Dazzling Mills Family. 
Under patterns a trick is refered to as the double lubman known better as
the mills mess. There is no such thing as a double lubman. This was
submitted by a unknowlegable person. Please fix this. I am the inventor of
this trick and the juggle.org will attest ot there being no mention anywhere
else of this being called a double lubman.
Capitalistroadster 01:17, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Double Lubman

message: Is the Egyptian drawing serious, or some sort of in-joke?  I followed the references to here , but the drawing shown on this page is not the same (similar, but clearly different).  If this is a joke, I don't think it belongs on the page.  If it's not a joke, why are there two versions of the drawing?  --Allen 19:24, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Egyptian drawing... real or joke? 

message: P0lyglut, why do you think the fire image was inane?  To me, it seemed like a great illustration of the basic figure eight pattern of toss juggling, which in my experience is a key insight for people who know very little about juggling, and who often imagine more of a circular pattern. --Allen 05:31, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, looking through the history of this article, I see that you've removed the picture at least twice before, both times with the same edit summary.  Though you were reverted both times, you have still not explained what you think is wrong with this image.  And if that weren't enough reason to expect that you won't respond on this talk page, I see from reading your own talk page that "chances are [you] don't give a flying fuck about [me], and also will not respond to whatever shit [I] might have to say."  Therefore, I'm going to go ahead and just revert your last edit.  --Allen 05:40, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: i think the image is inane because it is far removed as a picture of juggling. It is a fancy picture, and it's value is perhaps good as a extra image at the bottom somewhere illustrating juggling with fire torches, if one wishes that. A more proper image fit for the top of the article, would be a person juggling say 3 balls. If the cascade motion is desired, then perhaps finding a image with time-exposure is proper. Xah Lee 08:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for responding.  If you come across a good picture of someone juggling three balls, I agree that would be a fine image for the top of the article.  --Allen 01:00, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  why was image inane? 

message: 86.213.15.234 14:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  and beat juggling? 

message: I think there are enough stubable articles relating to juggling for a 'Juggling Sutb' template to be made. Minglex 18:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Me too, but I would name it "Juggling Stub", if you are going to make one.  Not me, I'll try to expand the stubs instead. User:Pedant 18:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juggling stubs 

message: "Ioculr" is not a Latin word. The word "ioculari" means to joke or jest. I've corrected this in the article.--68.250.176.85 03:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latin 

message: "The majority of hobby jugglers can be split into one of two groups. The first are those who learned to juggle at university or college juggling clubs. These people are often mathematicians, scientists, and computer programmers. They like juggling because it can be very structured and it can be analysed and modeled easily by mathematics and physics. Juggling has established itself as a very useful model for researchers studying motor skills and learning techniques. The second group are from the counter culture or alternative culture scene. They enjoy juggling because, while it can be very structured, it can also be as free as you want it to be, with a virtually infinite scope for individual personal expression. Fire juggling is a common appeal." 
Does that last sentence make sense or is it just me? 
Also - how relevant is this paragraph? I don't find the value judgements of why people like juggling (seemingly stereotypically based on their degree choices or lack of them) particularly helpful. 
A more helpful breakup of jugglers would maybe include 'numbers' and 'technical' jugglers?  Laurence9993 15:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sociology and juggling?  

message: The article says that: "Ball juggling can be broken down into the following styles: Contact Juggling, Numbers Juggling, Pattern Juggling, Trick Juggling, Technical Juggling, Bounce Juggling and Football Juggling."
Is it just me or are pattern juggling, trick juggling and technical juggling all the same thing? I didn't want to go straight ahead and edit because there could well be some subtle difference I'm missing.
Thanks! Ian F. 17:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Types of juggling 

message: New links of dubious quality seem to get added to this page on a weekly basis, many of them are simple 3 ball tutorials. I have removed them all and replaced them with a single link to what I think is the best 3 ball video tutorial. I feel that one single link is enough. If anyone finds a better tutorial, feel free to replace this link, however I don;t think we need to link to every poorly written 3 ball tutorial with animated GIFs! --Colin E. 09:38, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links and Resources 

message: User:BradBeattie/Userboxes/Juggling
Enjoy! --Brad Beattie (talk) 01:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Userbox 

message: What about drum stick spinning? I think it's popular enough to deserve an own paragraph 88.73.4.152 04:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Drummers 

message: http://www.giocoleria.org/ 
It seems to be a fine website, with up-to-date information and lively discussion taking place in Italian.  However an English language encyclopedia page about juggling is not an appropriate place to advertise it.  I am surprised that the site does not have a link from the Italian version of this page http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giocoleria
Josephmcginley 15:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed link to giocoleria.org 

message: I've created  and tagged several stubs accordingly (see what links here). —KNcyu38 (talk • contribs) 04:04, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|Juggling-stub}} 

message: Traverse City West Senior highschool has had an active juggling club. Presedents Ted and Andrew run the club. The meeting are every Tuesday. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nateisonsomething (talk • contribs) 16:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Congratulations on having an active juggling club - you should make sure it's listed at www.jugglingdb.com/clubs.  I have removed your link from the 'organisations' section of this article since this is not an appropriate place to list it.  Best of luck with the club, Josephmcginley 13:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juggling Clubs 

message: Does anybody have a citation for the alleged fame of the WJF?  I hadn't heard of it until I read the article.  Seems at risk of falling under WP:PEACOCK.
Johnjlee 14:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fame of the WJF 

message: Please add on the XX century part of article: "the art of juggling is state supported as high art on the Chinese People's Republic" (citing a book from 1986)  --Enric Naval (talk) 18:43, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  state-supported as high art on china 

message: It looks to me like a lot of the information in the juggling notation article is duplicated here, as well as in the additional siteswap page.  Maybe the notation page should just be merged here?  --Superfly Jon (talk) 14:47, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge juggling notation into this article? 

message: It's too bad that we can't make it so that the Sabre Dance from Katchaturian's Gayane automatically plays when one views this article (not to mention the one on plate spinning). --Modus Ponens (talk) 20:15, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: When Wikipedia merges with MySpace, we can have Sabre Dance, seventeen YouTube instructional videos, and that six minute video of the guy juggling along with Beatles songs, all playing automatically while a high-resolution background image of Anthony Gatto's smiling face loads. Let's enjoy the silence and hope that day never comes. ;) --Fullobeans (talk) 21:59, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sabre Dance 

message: I've proposed a merge of Juggling pattern and Juggling notation. Please discuss on the talk page. Fences&Windows 03:22, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge of two articles

message: Is there any relevant, cited information for the infromation listed under the "Park" heading in this article? Seems mostly like pure opinion to me.
The text is: "Juggling can add a whole new dimension to a band performance in the park."
I've added a citation needed tag in the meantime but until someone can give a reference or a reason why this is relevant, I suggest removal.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.12.14.250 (talk) 02:53, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Relevance

message: This page appears to defy the XKCD Law of Wikipedia (mouseover bubble on http://xkcd.org/903/). A link for the word "Entertainment" in the first sentence would fix that.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.95.68.62 (talk) 09:06, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: XKCD Law of Wikipedia

message: dwell time? dwell_time_juggling? dwell time_(juggling)? dwell time? .. sry .. I do'nt look through it anymore .. plz help!
(I was like shocked - moderately - to not find an existing article about dwell time for juggling .. alter it! .. do with what you want! .. but, please, make °°dwell time for juggling°° an existing article! 
Help me to make an article for dwell time_juggling, this:
In juggling, the dwell time is an important parameter, meaning the time a so called 'prop', especially a ball, a ring, a club, or anything alike that are caught and thrown again, (.. not so much a diabolo, devil-stick or anything alike that are being handled with tools .. prop = requisite? propulsator? propulsion element? propelled thing?) stays in the hand that catches and throws it (respectively the time it is in contact with the tool handling it).
Juggling pingpong balls with pingpong rackets thus would give a dwell time near 0 or a minuscule fraction of a second, while a huge glass marble contact juggled by a contact juggler gives a dwell time of like upto minutes.
At juggling clubs, balls or rings, the dwell time is usually fractions of a second. It is - looked at it exactly - the time from contacting the prop when catching, unto leaving the hand when throwing.
It can be varied by the juggler, by using different techniques of catching and throwing: e.g. 
A ball can be caught with the whole hand - like gripped entirely -, then thrown again = long, slow dwell time.
It can be caught using the hand or even only the fingers like as a basket - without gripping it entirely, only like braking it to catch it, then giving it its direction when throwing it = average dwell time. 
The ball can be ticked or flicked by using the hand like as a racket to propulse the ball back into the air, without even seizing it in any way = shortest dwell time.
.. where these techniques in their definition transition rather fluently into one another.
The dwell time must not be confused with the juggling speed: 
.. a certain juggling pattern juggled at a certain height with a certain speed can be achieved with small (short) or high (long) dwell time by using different of the above techniques.
Varying a 3-ball-cascade ( .. the article exists! ) or a 5-ball-cascade in speed or improving from 3b-casc to 5b-casc, will automatically improve a juggler's dwell time abilities.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.143.233.97 (talk) 19:25, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  dwell time 

message: I think its useful like to add C.E. Shannon's juggling equation within a short theory section (its a very simple one!) . There's aready lots of social and historical info (which is of course nessersary and good, I have no problems with what's in the article). It follows like this: 
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
:(F+D)H=(V+D)N\,\!
where (in his notation):
*F = Flight time (time a ball is in the air i.e. out of hands),
*D = Dwell time (time a ball is in contact with hands),
*H = Hand number (total number of hands manipulating the pattern),
*V = Vacant time (time a hand is empty),
*N = Number of balls juggled.
Here is what the equation means.
H and N are dimensionless numbers. D, F, V are times, e.g. measured in seconds.
The total number of hands manipulating the balls is H, from any number of people contributing to the pattern. If one person juggles, H can be 1 or 2. If more people were to enter the pattern H can be greater than or equal to 2.
The total time taken for all balls to be in contact with all hands, and thrown up in the air, is F + D.
The total time taken for a ball to not be in contact with any hands and thrown up in the air, i.e. time taken when no hands are on any balls, is V + D.
If F + D > V + D, i.e. (subtracting D from both sides) F > V, the juggler has the ball in his/her hand for a longer time then when a ball is not in any hand, the pattern is slower. Likewise F < V implies the juggler has the ball in his/her hand for a shorter time then when a ball is not in any hand, the pattern is faster. 
As the throw hieght inreases, F increases, the ball is in the air for longer.
As the pattern becomes faster, D decreases and V increases, the balls are in the hands less and not in the hands for longer.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
What do people think?
--  F = q(E + v × B) 15:07, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Shannon equation + some theory

message: I removed a large section of the article and wanted to explain why.  The information is already covered in Juggling world records, which is noted in that section.  This article really isn't the place for an exhaustive list of records, that article is.  That article has the citations, this one didn't, which might explain concerns about vandalism on this page previously.  Being that this is a general article on Juggling, this much detail is excessive, and either it needs to stay in the Juggling world records article, or the articles be merged.  Since I don't think a merge is a good idea, I just removed the questionable and improperly referenced material here.  In short, I think this article needs to focus on the concepts, types, influences and history of juggling, not the records.  Dennis Brown (talk) 14:01, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As an editor of the Juggling World Records page, I agree with Dennis. The records should be kept in only one location, to avoid duplicate work, and to ensure that records are properly sourced and kept up to date. The records previously listed here were not. Thanar (talk) 20:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is room here in the section to explain records better, perhaps expand the requirements to make a record official, etc. but again, keeping the actual records on the other page. Dennis Brown (talk) 21:01, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of world records 

message: To explain what's going on in external links I have already discussed with an admin who reverted my change:
Just curious about your edit on 21 June 2012 on Juggling. You removed a link to the Juggling Edge that I'd put up a short while earlier to replace the Internet Juggling Database which has recently closed down. I don't know if you are a juggler or not so I don't know if you are aware that the link that you left at the top of the list (JIS) has not been updated for over a decade. The Juggling page states that conventions & festivals are the 'backbone of the juggling scene'. The festivals page on the JIS http://www.juggling.org/festivals/upcoming/ points to the now defunct IJDb. The JIS clubs page is a major bone of contention in the juggling community because so much of the information is out of date. The IJDb was considered the most important link because it had the most up to date information. All the IJDb festival & club data now exists at the Juggling Edge. I don't understand why you removed a site with up to date info & promoted an inaccurate source?
If anything you should delete Juggling Universe (forum launched last year that never took off) & the instruction links & put in:
*Juggling Edge - for accurate event & club listings.
*Juggling Information Service - for the old articles.
*rec.juggling - the most active juggling forum. Learn to juggle 3 balls 
*YouTube id T16_BVIFFPQ - all those instructional sites are a bit redundant, this video provides the best instruction IMO
  * I might have been too hasty. Go ahead and put them back, and I will leave it to the opinions of others. I try to always trim unnecessary links, but you make a good case. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:04, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: This article requires significant editing and referencing. I hope to do this on an ongoing basis - bit by bit. Please discuss any changes I do here before reverting them. Thanks Robynthehode (talk) 15:50, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Major Edit

message: I tried to display the video entitled "Two men juggling", but the video would not play.  An error message was displayed:  "For a better video playback experience we recommend a [ html5 video browser]."
However, my browser is Internet Explorer 9 which, according to the Internet Explorer 9 article, "supports the HTML5 video and audio tags".  Wideangle (talk) 08:04, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Why won't video play under Internet Explorer 9?

message: I have reverted edits placing Penn from Penn and Teller as a notable juggler. He may be noted to do juggling in his magic act but that is not the same thing as being a notable juggler. He is a notable magician. Please do not include him as a notable juggler unless you first make your case here in the talk pages for his inclusion. Thanks Robynthehode (talk) 02:27, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Penn as a juggler

message: Juggle Wiki is a popular, established, reasonably comprehensive and useful juggling resource that should be included in this page.  Juggle Wiki K6e6n6n6y (talk) 10:49, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but as a general rule Wikipedia doesn't link to "open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors." per WP:LINKSTOAVOID. I don't think that site meets that threshold. There's just not enough activity there yet. Grayfell (talk) 20:07, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juggle Wiki 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion