Talk:Armenian hypothesis

message: If anything is "undue" here, it is to mention Kavoukjian at all. The discussion of the role of the hypothesis in propaganda is perfectly valid and well sourced. dab (𒁳) 13:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not. It is pov. Calling Kavoukjian a nationalist (which may be true) is also pov. This is your original research Db. You connecting that statement to Kavoukjian is your original research. Thus per your suggestion we will remove it altogether.--Eupator 15:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I don't mind the current version. Although how could Diakonoff in 84 reject Kavoukjian's thesis of 87? Diakonoff can manipulate the space/time continuum?--Eupator 17:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: sigh, that's why the article has "English 1987". I was unable to find the date of original publication. Kavoukjian is also just an example of what I assume are several authors. I am also only quoting a source referring to Diakonoff's refutation, that's it. If you have another source that says something different, feel free to quote it also. dab (𒁳) 10:45, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "undue weight"??

message: I deleted this:
:Many scholars place the Indo-European homeland in the Armenian Highlands and the plateau of Asia Minor to the southwest.Johannes Schmidt, Die Urheimat der Indogermanen und das europaïsche Zahlensystem, Weimar, 1890Russell D. Gray and Quentin D. Atkinson, Language-tree divergence times support the Anatolian theory of Indo-European origin, Nature 426 (27 November 2003) 435-439Colin Renfrew, Archaeology and Language, 159-60; Thomas V. Gamkrelidze & Vyacheslav V. Ivanov, Indoevropejskij jazyk i indoevropejtsy (Tbilisi, 1984)Thomas V. Gamkrelidze & Vyacheslav V. Ivanov, “The Ancient Near East and the Indo-European Question Others believe that it was in Eastern Europe or southern Russia.Igor M. Diakanov, “On the Original Home of the Speakers of Indo-European,” Journal of Indo-European Studies, vol. 13, no. 1 & 2 (Spring/Summer 1985) 92-174.Marija Gimbutas, “Primary and Secondary Homeland of the Indo-Europeans,” Journal of Indo-European Studies, vol. 13, no. 1 & 2 (Spring/Summer 1985) 185-202
This paragraph is misleading at best, more likely POV.  It uses weasel words ("many scholars") to give the incorrect impression that the Armenian hypothesis is more than a fringe idea and that the Kurgan hypothesis is other than mainstream.  It also lists some pro-Anatolian refs as if they support the Armenian hypothesis. (It should also be noted that Gray and Atkinson do *not* support the idea of an Anatolian origin; all they do is support the idea of a breakup farther back in time, similar to what the Anatolian hypothesis claims.  Nothing in their paper says anything about locations.) Take out the Anatolian and Kurgan refs, and all you're left with is a reference from 1890, which is so early that it's basically worthless -- nobody considers homeland speculations from that era as having anything other than historical interest. Benwing (talk) 05:16, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite right, again one of these completely blue-eyed articles. HJJHolm (talk) 14:58, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  paragraph deleted 

message: In his last book, Who we are and how we got here: ancient dna and the new science of the human past, David Reich mention the Armenian hypothesis asf : 
 
So Reich confirm direct and massive genetic relationship between Armenian-like population from the Armenian highlands and Yamnaya. One to one is a very high ratio. Although it doesn't explain the relation between proto Armenian language and PIE, it gives undoubtedly weight to Gamkrelidze and Ivanov hypothesis and its worth to mention that Armenian-like population directly contributed to the ethnogenesis of Yamnaya which is accepted as Late PIE by linguists, archeologists & paleogeneticians. 
I would like to add it consensually, so I ll wait for the feedback from the previous editors.Aramazt (talk) 22:56, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait for WP:RS to make the connection (there probably already are; this info is not new); otherwise it would be WP:OR. But of course, it reminds of the Armenian hypothesis. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:55, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

text: Yes: The Armenian Plateau Hypothesis Gains In Plausibility. But, see Haak, as cited in Languages of the World: An Introduction by Asya Pereltsvaig, p.38: "ancient DNA is silent on the question of the languages spoken by preliterate people." No doubt those Armenian-Iranian people will have brought their own language, but it may have morphed into another, distinctive language, c.q. proto-Indo-European, due to the language spoken by the EHG-component (from their wives?). Compare the proposed farmer-substrate  in German, and the possibility that Dravidian originated as recent as the 3rd century BCE in India itself. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:04, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is very interesting and relevant information, which definitely needs to be included in the article.  I am lucky to have checked the talk page, but not anyone would do so.  The consider a book published by a field scholar to be RS, what else could be expected?  Darwwin (talk) 14:58, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice coincidence: Undo-european.eu (march 30, 2018), Proto-Indo-European homeland south of the Caucasus?. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:05, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

text: This new info is very interesting and has actually made me reconsider my personal position on this idea although I will have to read the papers. However, that doesn't change the fact that this page has a severe WP:NPOV problem. It reads as an ad for the theory without considering hte (very serious) historical criticism it has incurred over the decades. Both sides need to be discussed and it is giving much more space to the "pro" side.-- Calthinus  (talk)  22:35, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Reich / Genetics  

message: I've deleted the following link from the External links-section: Image of Indo-European migrations from the Armenian Highlands. It presents an idiosyncratic map, accoridng to which the IE-languages originated in the southern Caucasus, and reached the Pontic steppes via a route east of the Caspian Sea. Frankly, I don't know what Gamkrelidze and Ivanov say about the route from Armenia to Pontic Steppe, but the only explanation to this map is "indoeuropeanlanguagemigation." That's not enough; according to whom is this the way IE spread? A similar map is contained in an article on, or by, N.S. Trubetskoy, who died in 1938... NB: a similar map is being used here. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:23, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External link to map 

message: The original hypothesis explicitly includes the NW Iranian region of Lake Urmia as part of a nexus where PIE developed.  It's an extremely important detail, so please dont delete it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:1030:2070:5CD6:2176:AD79:7BA8 (talk) 01:43, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The text you're changing is a direct quote of Gamkrelidze and Ivanov (1995, pg. 791), as indicated by the quotation marks and footnote. If you're going to add details to it will no longer be a quotation and needs to be reworded. You will also need to provide a citation supporting the assertion that the inclusion of Lake Urmia is an "important detail" that needs to be explicitly remarked upon at the start of the article. – Joe (talk) 05:04, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lake Urmia region 

message: I have changed the first sentence of the lead back to what it was in December 2020. I don’t have access to the source. If this is incorrect, please amend. Sweet6970 (talk) 10:59, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to the first sentence of the lead and elsewhere

message: David Reich's holding a lecture about an upcoming study here: [I have tried to post this three times in a row but it doesn't show up in talk page. Maybe it's because of the link, so I'm excluding it this time. The title is ' Lecture by Prof. David Reich - "The Genetic History of the Southern Arc: A Bridge between West Asia & Europe" ' and can be found on webarchive and eupedia.]
We read:
"The impermeability of Anatolia to exogenous migration contrasts with our finding that the Yamnaya had two distinct gene flows, both from West Asia, suggesting that the Indo-Anatolian language family originated in the eastern wing of the Southern Arc and that the steppe served only as a secondary staging area of Indo-European language dispersal."
Keep an eye on it 46.177.94.68 (talk) 22:52, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see the discussion 'Hybrid hypothesis' at Talk:Indo-European migrations. Sweet6970 (talk) 11:22, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  New aDNA study apparently confirming the Near Eastern model 

message: The Genetic Origin of The Indo-Europeans 5.215.244.159 (talk) 20:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Article!