Talk:Mickey Marcus

message: There is much unsourced material in this article but can someone please provide references for the following: 
:... the United States War Department granted leave to Colonel Marcus, who was a reservist, provided Marcus disguised his name and rank to avoid problems with the British Mandate of Palestine.
:Under the name "Michael Stone" in keeping with the understanding of the U.S. government ...
Thanks. --DieWeibeRose 06:43, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Add 'citation needed' templates to article.--DieWeibeRose 02:44, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article is evidently based on the History Net article that it cites (since moved - I fixed the reference), which is based on the book, Cast a Giant Shadow it seems. The movie departed from the truth for sure.  I have toned down a few things based on my own article that uses Israeli sources. No Israeli source states that Marcus initiated or actually supervised the Burma road, and he did not personally command the attacks on Latrun because he knew no Hebrew. He had no staff who could track events in the field and evidently no way of communicating with the commanders while the battles were in progress. He was involved in planning them according to Yitzhak Levi. It is also not generally stated in any Israeli sources I found that Marcus was responsible for many of the other things attributed to him in that history net article. An Israeli historian was very surprised when I asked him about these claims RE Marcus. Caveat Lector. Those dubious claims motivated my changes. The account of Marcus, the attacks etc. is in Yitzhak Levi, "Tisha Kabin" page 277 ff. (in Hebrew) and is reflected in part in the article I cited. It is known that he used the name Michael Stone, but reason is unclear. U.S. Citizens who aided Israel in this period risked losing their citizenship. Al Schwimmer was fined $10,000 and lost his civil rights. It is not too likely that he asked anyone's permission under those circumstances. [[Mewnews (talk) 01:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Request references for [[Mickey_Marcus#Israeli_military_career|Israeli military career]]

message: Proof that my spelling of Machal, written out long form, is the correct spelling. . It is toward the bottom in the letterhead. -NYC2TLV 10:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the link — but could you be more specific?  I've searched the document, and can't find it (either your version, or the one that was in the article before...). --Mel Etitis  (Talk) 21:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at the letter head at the bottom addressed to Pres. Katzav. It says the words around the World Machal logo. You can look there or the actual article on Wikipedia about Machal. You can also just take the word from someone who speaks fluent Hebrew. -NYC2TLV 03:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text:  Official spelling is certainly Machal as you can find in various Web sites (eg http://www.mahal-idf-volunteers.org/ ). Strictly speaking the correct transliteration should be "Ma'hal" since the letter in question is a 'het. But older Hebrew transliteration used ch for both 'het and chaf. Transliteration of certain words and names have become more or less coventionalized, though it is "incorrect" - eg Chanuka, Chaim Weizmann etc. The Wikipedia "Mahal" article is almost alone in using this spelling in the title - but in the URL it is spelled "Machal."   [[Mewnews (talk) 03:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Machal

message: It's doubtful that a Staff Judge Advocate Officer would be a "Commandant" of a US Army Ranger School that didn't exist in 1942. --72.145.146.195 (talk) 16:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: With just a bit of research on Mickey Marcus one will find he was quite a character, and could never seem to stay still long.  I have read about the "ranger" school, though do not know if it was officially called that yet.  He also parachuted into Normandy on D-day, where he managed to organize several men to free allied POW's and just made such a ruckus on the ground doing things that the Commander in the field had him brought in, only to discover it to be Mickey Marcus, who at the time was supposed to be working at The Pentagon or something.  Although he had not broken any official rules by partaking in D-day, he did return to The Pentagon when told to do so by that same field Commander.  Anyone who knows about the initial Nuremberg trials know Mickey Marcus was running the show.Bugatti35racer (talk) 03:46, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Request reference for US military career

message: According to interview with former member of the Hagana who knew the lady, MM was having an affair with a Hagana women.  Her former lover was a Hagana commander who according to the interview became jealous and was involved in killing MM.  He then made up the story about the sentries challenge. The element of the official story that is consistent with the interviewee's story is that M  was dressed in a sheet.  
This is verbal history and the interviewee is now dead. I don't suggest putting this in the main article, but it should remain in the comments as a possible explanation of a suspicious death. 
Saltysailor (talk) 17:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unofficial Israeli version is that he went to relieve himself. That explains the sheet, as he probably slept nude. A conspiracy theory says that he was killed by supporters of USSR for being an agent of US imperialism. [[Mewnews (talk) 03:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Death

message: "In 1947, David Ben-Gurion asked Marcus to recruit an American officer to serve as military advisor to the nascent Jewish army,
 the Haganah. He could not recruit anyone suitable, and Marcus volunteered himself. In 1948, the United States War Department
 informally acquiesced in Colonel Marcus, still a reservist, undertaking the mission provided Marcus disguised his name and rank
 to avoid problems with the British Mandate of Palestine."
"His is the only grave in the West Point Cemetery at the United States Military Academy for an American killed fighting under the flag of another country."
92.251.155.219 (talk) 01:06, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Treason

message: "the abandoned Monastere Notre Dame de la Nouvelle Alliance in Abu Ghosh"
After all, only synagoues are acceptable as places of worship.
92.251.155.219 (talk) 01:06, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Desecration after ethnic cleansing

message: "Colonel David Marcus — a Soldier for All Humanity". Because he killed for Judaism? Ergo, Gentiles aren't human.
92.251.155.219 (talk) 01:06, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethnocentrism and racism

message: "Killed in action in the hills of Zion while leading Israeli forces as their supreme commander in the struggle for Israel's freedom
 - Blessed is the match that is consumed in kindling flame/ Blessed is the flame that burns in the secret fastness of the heart/
 Blessed is the heart with strength to stop its beating for honor's sake/ Blessed is the match that is consumed in kindling flame
 - Dedicated by his fellow members of Union Temple of Brooklyn December 9, 1949."
Freedom from what? The best land had been bought up and the Palestinians were being ethnically cleansed.
"Blessed is the match that is consumed in kindling flame" - Ode to an arsonist?
"Dedicated by his fellow members of Union Temple of Brooklyn" who weren't that enamoured of sand and Arab savages that they wanted to move to Palestine. Better to stay in the Western liberal democracies where one can easily complain of imaginary victimisation.
L'chaim!
92.251.155.219 (talk) 01:06, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Schmaltz and hypocrisy

message: Correct me if I'm wrong, but "Israel" has been around for thousands of years, right? Israelites date back to 3,600 BCE or something, and I'm sure their armies had leaders with a rank we would call a "General". In the movie Cast a Giant Shadow Marcus is called "Israel's first general", which gives the impression that Israel never had armies or land ever. 
Or is this just a context problem, and were they speaking of the "fledgling State of Israel" being established in the 1940s? Kind of like speaking of "China" when speaking of the regime since Mao, and ignoring the Middle Kingdom's previous existence of over 3 millienia.
Just a history question, bearing on a "famous first". Do we have a Wikipedia:Superlatives rule? Like "first black man to hold a cabinet-level position in the USA"? --Uncle Ed (talk) 04:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Generals of Israel

message: His grave marker can be found at http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=3641. I don't think it can be used for the article, but some here may want to see it. 155.213.224.59 (talk) 13:35, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grave marker 

message: This school is named after him. I'm not smart enough to add this onto the main entry, but someone else might want to. 
https://www.schools.nyc.gov/schools/K217  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:E003:162F:C301:30CB:353F:79F0:63B7 (talk) 22:19, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  P.S. 217 in Brooklyn