Talk:National Football League/Archive 1

message: It has been said that one man practicing sportsmanship is better than fifty men preaching it.  Describing the NFL as an entertainment industry and permitting excessive celebrations has ruined NFL football for us.  It's no longer a sport, and as a business it's dishonest.  After a longtime affiliation with pro football, the cellphone incident has slammed the door shut.  Anything less than suspension  of these hot dogs is inappropriate.
Sincerely,
George Madison
: I fail to see the point behind banning these celebrations. It is perfectly reasonable for someone to be very happy after scoring a touchdown, and, frankly, the celebrations are very entertaining, though I agree with banning deliberately offensive celebrations (like Moss mooning the crowd)
::This is an issue where some people enjoy the celebrations and others do not.  If the players are allowed to bring the game to a halt so they can go play cheerleader for a while, some people will give up on football all together.  If the players are limited in their celebrations, only those who watch the game specifically for the celebrations (all two of them?) will stop watching the game.  So, from a financial standpoint, it is better to limit the celebrations by the players. Kainaw 14:05, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that instead of banning some celebrations, there should just be a time limit. Say, 15 seconds, and if they go over, it's a 10 yard penalty. --SodiumBenzoate 23:17, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What you suggest is the rule.  A player may briefly celebrate.  However, the celebration may not include items being brought onto the field (ink pens, cell phones, pompoms, etc...) and it may not be a group celebration.  As it is, there is a celebration after nearly every play.  A guy makes a tackle, he celebrates.  A guy catches a ball, he celebrates.  A guy doesn't trip on his own feet, he celebrates.  My opinion on this is best summed up by Madden - don't celebrate for doing your job.  Celebrate when you win the game.  It is like watching a bag boy do a dance every time he puts a can in a plastic bag. Kainaw 02:20, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sayanora, Sportsmanship in the NFL 

message: Can anyone tell me what the deal is with this phrase?  A search for it (in quotes) shows that it appears in every single sports team page, and virtually no where else in the Wikipedia.  Is it an actual Encycplodeic convention, or is it just something someone stuck in to a template at some time or another?  It strikes me as too folksy and vaguely inappropriate.  Wouldn't "Other Notable Players" or something like that be better?  I changed it on the Steeler's page before noticing it's in every sports team page, and I'm torn between changing it back to make it fit the sports team model, or keeping the change. Charles 16:25, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The phrase Not to be forgotten is normally applied to POW/MIA soldiers.  As such, it is often used where the same comaraderie is desired.  While using this phrase in football fits with the warrior persona, it does imply that the retired players are dead, which is not always the case.  I feel that Other Notable Players is a better title. Kainaw 22:04, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not to be forgotten 

message: I just noticed the 'Other Nicknames' section under 'NFL Lore'.  I find many things wrong with this.
First: Other than what?  Unless there is a Nicknames section, it is strange to have an Other Nicknames section.  It cannot be Other than the Lore because the Lore section lists events, not nicknames.
Second: What is Lore about nicknames?  Franco Harris has some fans who gave themselves a nickname.  How has that become part of the NFL legend for everyone who really doesn't care (or know) who Franco Harris is?
Third: Being under Lore, it implies the past.  The nicknames listed are a mix of the present and the past.
I suggest moving the nicknames section out of lore.  I actually think that it should be removed all together.  Perhaps an article on 'Nicknames in the NFL' could be created instead. Kainaw 22:00, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Nicknames

message: Some teams play five preseason games (e.g., World Bowl) and the regular season does not always start the week after the last preseason games. Al 15:45, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regular season 

message: The removal of the Samoan section, claiming that makes no sense, makes no sense.  It is obvious that there are a lot of Samoans in the NFL.  This is backed by many easy to find news articles, such as .  However, I can see the reason for removing the section.  It is not about blacks.  While the title of the section is "Racial Policies", the section links to what it refers to as the parent article - Blacks in American Football.  So, I suggest that the section be renamed "Black Policies" or it should allow for races other than blacks to be represented. Kainaw 14:56, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I also removed a section from Racial Policies that claimed: Too many blacks were having fun.  This made the white people angry.  The league made rules to keep the blacks from having fun.  Again, this section is titled 'Racial Policies'.  If it is supposed to be 'How Blacks are Mistreated by the NFL', rename the section. Kainaw 13:26, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Racial Policies/Samoans

message: This is a place to discuss the NFL article on Wikipedia - not an NFL message board.  The following are items that have nothing to do with the NFL Wikipedia article.  There are hundreds (if not thousands) of NFL message boards on the Internet for topics like the following.  I am bringing this up because if it isn't mentioned, this will become nothing more than a message board. Kainaw 23:42, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: This is not a message board

message: The big table at the top of the article, depicting team helmets and names, seems a little awkward.  The text of the article is abruptly halted to make way for it.  I think it would be much nicer if we could set it up in such a way that would permit the article text to wrap around it on one side.  It's also remarkably similar to Template:NFL at the bottom. -Joshuapaquin 01:03, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Team/helmet table 

message: When Lore was split, I understood that Nicknames was supposed to split as well.  It is not an integral part of the NFL article.  So, I went ahead and split it.  In my opinion, as a second article, it can be padded with a few thousand nicknames.  We can even make up some, like the KC Chokes (they can make the playoffs regularly, but they can't win once they do). Kainaw 17:53, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Nicknames split

message: The article would benefit greatly from a discussion of player contracts.  Specifically, how is it that Terrell Owens can sign a 7-year contract and then demand a renegotiation after one year?  Effectively, in the NFL, should the word "contract" always be used with quotes around it?  And how does the grievance procedure work with players who are fired, released, suspended, or fined?  Tempshill 01:08, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: NFL contracts are structured in a way that allows teams to suspend/release/fine players. Renegotiation works the same way it does with other contracts - if both sides agree to change it (the team and the player) it's allowed. I don't know the contract/labor system in enough detail to write a section about it though. --71.225.229.151 22:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Player contracts 

message: *I'm wondering if it would be better to link the names of the players in question to their player pages... it would help better explain the context behind each rule, if that is explained on their pages.  I didn't want to make the change unless others thought it would be a good idea.   Jlove1982 21:53, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rules named after Players

message: If anyone could tell me where could I get the template for the NFL Teams (the one that shows all the information in regard each team) I'm planing on translate that template to spanish, thanks in advance! :D
EOZyo (мѕğ) 08:25, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Thanks! EOZyo (мѕğ) 04:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quick Question 

message: Why has this article been removed from the GA list.  I was thinking of nominating it, but I see it has been removed.  Anyone Know why?False Prophet 01:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article

message: I think someone should add an article about the NFL drug-testing system and steroid policy, similar to the article in Major League Baseball.--J3wishVulcan 00:11, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steroid Policy 

message: I created an article on this with the exact same title. I was wondering if anybody agrees with me that this should be a section under of the NFL article?MP123 04:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see why not.  Since this page is so long anyways.--Attitude2000 01:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[NFL Number System]]

message: Season(s) Regular Season Games  
*1935-1936 12 games  
*1937-1942 11 games  
*1943-1945 10 games  
*1946 11 games  
*1947-1960 12 games  
*1961-1977 14 games  
*1978-present 16 games 
I added this and think it makes a nice quick read for people
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.112.121.29 (talk • contribs) .
:I did not know what you were exactly doing the first time you added it, so that is why I reverted it. Sorry. Now I understand your intent, I formatted it into a table. Thanks for your contribution. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 23:03, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Games in the regular season

message: The article says "To date, a coin toss has never been used by the league to break a tie." But the article on the NFL Draft says "then a coin toss decides who picks first; for example, in the 2006 Draft San Francisco won the coin toss over Oakland to pick 6th instead of 7th." I don't know which is right but I'm assuming the article on the draft is right.  Someone who knows more should take a look. William conway bcc 14:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would appear that the draft and the playoffs use different tie-breaking schemes?  Is that correct? Charles (Kznf) 15:17, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed Zzyzx11 (Talk) 15:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tiebreaker

message: It has become a regular (and now permanent) fixture on the schedule, the NFL Kickoff game (assumed to be the official title). It should be enough to garner it's own page to list the background of the game (stemmed from recovery from 9/11 in NYC, etc.), the previous results, the previous concerts participants, and other general info. Here is an quick table of the winners.
Season	Date       	Winning Team        	Score	Losing Team       	Score	Location        	Network
2002  	September 5	San Francisco 49ers 	16   	New York Giants   	13   	Giants Stadium  	ESPN
2003  	September 4	Washington Redskins 	16   	New York Jets     	13   	FedEx Field     	ABC
2004  	September 9	New England Patriots	27   	Indianapolis Colts	24   	Gillette Stadium	ABC
2005  	September 8	New England Patriots	30   	Oakland Raiders   	20   	Gillette Stadium	ABC
2006  	September 7	Pittsburgh Steelers 	24   	Miami Dolphins    	17   	Heinz Field     	NBC
If exhibition games like the Hall of Fame game, and American Bowl earned their own page, the Kickoff game (which is an actual regular season game) should be a candidate as well. My 0.02 Doctorindy 17:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NFL Kickoff Game

message: The lead mentions two league offices (NYC and Nashville), but later on the "Main League offices" section lists Canton, Columbus, Chicago, Philly and NYC. Which is it? --ZimZalaBim (talk) 19:41, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nevermind, neglected to notice that those were historical listings. Move along - nothing to see here. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 19:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  League offices? 

message: Do we need the "current champion" entry in the infobox?  The other info in there is pretty static, the champion info changes (usually) yearly.  The only other info in the box that is subject to change is the number of teams, but that number seldom changes.  CPitt76 01:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi. I don't know anything about NFL, but I noticed on a random article that the player infobox is displaying very erratically. Mdcollins1984 10:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you must be referring to Template:NFL PlayerCoach. It was still using the obsolete HiddenStructure code  whose functionality was recently disabled. It now has been converted to use  the ParserFunctions code. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 07:39, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: I really like the NFL.
--24.118.81.189 22:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NFL 

message: How come there are not a lot of images on this page or any of the NFL team articles? Does the competition not allow cameras at the grounds or something? Cvene64 08:25, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, basically the NFL strictly limits the amount of cameras on the grounds, so the only good shots are from people, mostly from specific news organisations, who copyright their images. In most cases, we cannot use them without breaking Wikipedia's fair use policy. The only free images that have been found so far are ones that have been taken by fans attending the game sitting way up in the stadiums, such as here and here. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 15:58, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: This section of the article seems rather fragmented and it would seem that it should be cleaned up.  I feel that the addition of some examples are needed for the early years and post-war mergers.  The part about late 20th century relocations is good but that the current discussions between the NFL and the city of Los Angeles about gaining a franchise should be added either in the section or as an additional section on expansion with other examples (e.g. Houston Texans).  Also the final sentence is interesting but needs either citation or clarification. Backstroke54 07:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As you notice at the top of that section, there is the message "For more details on this topic, see NFL franchise moves and mergers." That is where all of the examples were moved to. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 15:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Franchise relocations and mergers 

message: Previously, players like Brian Bosworth and Keyshawn Johnson had petitioned the league to wear a non-standard number at their position.  
That's what I have found so far.  We may be able to move some of this back, though keep in mind we are trying to REDUCE the article down to 32 kb or so.  It's still over 70kb. --Jayron32 18:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: From "uniform numbers"