Talk:Darrell Bevell

message: Some sort of reference should be made to the play that's causing this amount of interest. If not, expect more vandalism once lock is lifted. The Seahawks fans are fairly angry and aren't likely to forget the call that (they believe) cost them the season.
Suggest a temp lock due to dramatic decision in the latest game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.167.50 (talk • contribs) 03:40, February 2, 2015‎
:Already asked for one. Meters (talk) 03:47, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: This should be added to the end of coach section.  "In a controversial play at the end of the 2015 super bowl.  Darrell Bevell was accused of possibly costing the Seahawks a sure win at the 2015 supper bowl by deciding to pass the ball to one of their worst receivers, Ricardo Locette rather than hand off the ball to one of their best running backs, Marshawn Lynch." It was also said that Darrell Bevell was the patriots mvp 
Krmbluek (talk) 05:13, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Come up with sources describing everything you just listed. Wikipedia doesn't slander. — Wyliepedia 06:36, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2015 

message: ===Super Bowl XLIX controversy===
I'm moving all of this text here because as it is, it should not be on the page. If anything constructive can be made of this, that's something else. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Super Bowl XLIX could use some more details, albeit in a more neutral tone. Putting all this in one persons bio is too much recentism—Bagumba (talk) 22:00, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text 

message: I'm moving all of this text here because as it is, it should not be on the page. If anything constructive can be made of this, that's something else. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Super Bowl XLIX could use some more details, albeit in a more neutral tone. Putting all this in one persons bio is too much recentism—Bagumba (talk) 22:00, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Super Bowl XLIX controversy

message: First version of this thingy
In the 2015 NFL Championship game which ended the 2014-2015 season, the Seattle Seahawks were defeated by the New England Patriots 28-24. The Seahawks had a chance to win the game at the end when they had possession of the ball with just over 1 minute remaining at the 5 yard line of the Patriots. On first and goal, Bevell called a running play that saw Marshawn Lynch, widely considered the most difficult running back in the NFL to tackle, gain 4 yards off the left side of the offensive line where he was tackled at the 1 yard line. The Seahawks had 1 timeout remaining. With 26 seconds left, on second down, Seattle QB Russell Wilson attempted a pass to wide receiver Ricardo Lockette, who ran a 3 yard slant route off a set pick play where the 2nd of 3 Seattle wide receivers, Jermaine Kearse, engaged his defensive player at the line of scrimmage to allow Lockette time to get in position to catch Wilson's pass. However, undrafted rookie free agent Malcolm Butler intercepted the pass by performing a move that is colloquially referred to in football terms as "jumping the route". Butler, in a post game interview , stated that he recognized the Seahawks formation and remembered that they almost always ran a slant-pick play out of the stacked WR formation. Butler also claimed in another interview that he "had a vision of himself making a great play to win the game" moments before the snap, which convinced him that he was 100% sure the Seahawks were going to throw a slant route. Replays of the play clearly showed Butler firing off of his position and moving to the very spot the pass was thrown to, just hundreths of a second before Lockette was to arrive and catch the ball. Butler collided with Lockette immediately upon making the interception, and fell forward at the 1 yard line to secure the interception, thus allowing the Patriots to resume possession of the ball where they were able to successfully run out the clock, giving them the 28-24 victory over the Seahawks.
Criticism of the Seahawks choice of play on 2nd down resulted in massive amounts of discussion among fans, announcers, analysts, and even casual viewers of the game. The controversy centers of Bevell's choice to throw the football when the Seahawks had Marshawn Lynch in their backfield, available to run the ball. Lynch is widely considered the best short yardage running back in the NFL at this time, and fans and analysts everywhere fully expected the Seahawks to give the ball to Lynch to gain the single yard needed to score the go-ahead touchdown. NBC announcer Al Michaels shouted after the interception "UNREAL!". NBC Color Commentator Chris Collinsworth, Michael's broadcast partner, was immediately both incredulous and suspicious of the call, flat out disagreeing with it right after the play ended. Collinsworth stated that he "just doesn't agree with that call" when the Seahawks had Lynch available.
The list of people who have openly critcized Bevell is extensive. Hall of fame running back Emmitt Smith stated it was "the worst call he has ever seen in the history of football." A hashtag search on Twitter for #worstcallever reveals an incredible list of people who flat out believe it was the single worst call in the history of the Super Bowl. ESPN Football Analysts Steve Young, Trent Dilfer, and Tom Jackson were beside themselves after the game, with Dilfer levying especially harsh criticism. Dilfer stated that "1 million out of 1 million times, you should hand the ball off to Marshawn Lynch in that situation."
Former NFL head coach Herman Edwards discussed the call as well and stated that he "is sick about this call". Columnist John Branch of the New York Times wrote about the call and how widely criticized it is fast becoming. USA Today Sportswriter Lorenzo Reyes wrote an article about the Seahawks players themselves not being able to comprehend why the coaching staff made that call.
Seahawks Head Coach Pete Carroll attempted to explain the rationale for the call and to take full responsibility for it. However, his explanations made little sense to other fellow coaches and former players, with Steve Young going so far as to say Carroll's explanation makes even less sense out of the play because in that situation, with a timeout, there is no need to "waste a play". Young and Tom Jackson both agreed on NFL Primetime, ESPN's flagship NFL program, which aired immediately after the Super Bowl, that Carroll may well be attempting to deflect blame from Bevell and QB Russell Wilson.
Wilson offered little solace to angry Seahawks fans after the game in post game interviews, stating "if you want to blame someone, blame me, I made the throw." The Seattle Times, local paper that covers the Seahawks in-depth, offered extensive coverage of the play and the ensuing debate.
===== Football Analysis of the Play=====
The decision to pass vs run comes down to several key factors for NFL coaches. This is explained with the FACTOR - reasoning and information format given here:
* Personnel - what personnel are available to the offense, and what personnel are the defense bringing to the field
* Down and distance - what down is this play, how many downs do I have remaining, and how much distance do I need to either get a new set of downs or score points
* Clock management - do I want to continue running the clock after this play, or do I want to stop the clock
* Tempo - what type of flow is there to the game, and do I want to keep the same flow or change the tempo
* Chance for success - if the play goes wrong, what are the worst things that can happen vs the chance for successful play
* Situational awareness - what quarter is it, what is the score, how much time is left
* Recent history evaluation - what plays have I run before that have been or not been successful in this situation, what plays have I not run that I believe give us the best chance for success
* Player feedback - what do my players think of this play? Specifically, if it is a pass, what does my QB feel about his chances to execute the play?
The criticism here mainly focuses on Bevell's recent history evaluation, down and distance, and personnel selection. WIth less than a minute remaining, needing only a yard to score and take the lead, Bevell had a slew of choices. The greatest chance for success is typically what motivates coaches in any sport to make a decision. At the NFL level with professional athletes, coaches often talk of "putting your players in the best position". This means that you recognize your team's strength versus their weaknesses, and make your decisions accordingly. As such, many people feel Bevell failed here most critically for these reasons:\
1. Marshawn Lynch is one of the most surehanded backs in football and one of the most difficult to tackle. He also led the NFL in rushing touchdowns in the 2014 season. For this reason alone, many people believe you give him the ball and let him have three chances to get into the endzone.
2. Passing at the goal line into the middle of the defense presents the greatest opportunity for the ball to get deflectd, batted down at the line of scrimmage, dropped, or worse, intercepted, because this is where the most number of people are on the field. Thus, the greater the number of people, the greater the chance for something unexpected to happen.
3. The Seahawks have a dual threat QB in Russell Wilson. Wilson can run or pass. If the choice to pass was made, many analysts believe Wilson should have been able to make that choice himself by rolling outside of the tackles (or pocket) and deciding whether to throw or try to run it in to endzone.
4. The choice to call this particular type of pass is what is most baffling to analysts, especially former Quarterbacks. Many former QBs feel a fade route into the corner of the endzone or a "jump ball" throw where you throw it high above your receivers head and give them a chance to get the ball or let the ball go out of the end zone is a much better choice.
At the end of the day, for football enthusiasts, non-enthusasts, and Seahawk fans alike, there are a myriad of reasons as to why this is considered a bad call. Bevell himself made limited contact with the media, and offered only a cursory explanation for his choice while also possibly trying to deflect blame onto his players.
I'm moving all of this text here because as it is, it should not be on the page. If anything constructive can be made of this, that's something else. -Some Guy
Super Bowl 49 Controversy
In the 2015 NFL Championship game (Super Bowl XLIX) which ended the 2014-2015 season, the Seattle Seahawks were defeated by the New England Patriots 28-24. The Seahawks had a chance to win the game at the end when they had possession of the ball with just over 1 minute remaining at the 5 yard line of the Patriots. On first and goal, Bevell called a running play that saw Marshawn Lynch, widely considered the most difficult running back in the NFL to tackle, gain 4 yards off the left side of the offensive line where he was tackled at the 1 yard line. The Seahawks had 1 timeout remaining. With 26 seconds left, on second down, Seattle QB Russell Wilson attempted a pass to wide receiver Ricardo Lockette, who ran a 3 yard slant route off a set pick play where the 2nd of 3 Seattle wide receivers, Jermaine Kearse, engaged his defensive player at the line of scrimmage to allow Lockette time to get in position to catch Wilson's pass. However, undrafted rookie free agent Malcolm Butler intercepted the pass by performing a move that is colloquially referred to in football terms as "jumping the route". Butler, in a post game interview , stated that he recognized the Seahawks formation and remembered that they almost always ran a slant-pick play out of the stacked WR formation. Butler also claimed in another interview that he "had a vision of himself making a great play to win the game" moments before the snap, which convinced him that he was 100% sure the Seahawks were going to throw a slant route. Replays of the play clearly showed Butler firing off of his position and moving to the very spot the pass was thrown to, just hundreths of a second before Lockette was to arrive and catch the ball. Butler collided with Lockette immediately upon making the interception, and fell forward at the 1 yard line to secure the interception, thus allowing the Patriots to resume possession of the ball where they were able to successfully run out the clock, giving them the 28-24 victory over the Seahawks.
Criticism of the Seahawks choice of play on 2nd down resulted in massive amounts of discussion among fans, announcers, analysts, and even casual viewers of the game. The controversy centers of Bevell's choice to throw the football when the Seahawks had Marshawn Lynch in their backfield, available to run the ball. Lynch is widely considered the best short yardage running back in the NFL at this time, and fans and analysts everywhere fully expected the Seahawks to give the ball to Lynch to gain the single yard needed to score the go-ahead touchdown. NBC announcer Al Michaels shouted after the interception "UNREAL!". NBC Color Commentator Chris Collinsworth, Michael's broadcast partner, was immediately both incredulous and suspicious of the call, flat out disagreeing with it right after the play ended. Collinsworth stated that he "just doesn't agree with that call" when the Seahawks had Lynch available.
The list of people who have openly critcized Bevell is extensive. Hall of fame running back Emmitt Smith stated it was "the worst call he has ever seen in the history of football." A hashtag search on Twitter for #worstcallever reveals an incredible list of people who flat out believe it was the single worst call in the history of the Super Bowl. ESPN Football Analysts Steve Young, Trent Dilfer, and Tom Jackson were beside themselves after the game, with Dilfer levying especially harsh criticism. Dilfer stated that "1 million out of 1 million times, you should hand the ball off to Marshawn Lynch in that situation."
Former NFL head coach Herman Edwards discussed the call as well and stated that he "is sick about this call". Columnist John Branch of the New York Times wrote about the call and how widely criticized it is fast becoming. USA Today Sportswriter Lorenzo Reyes wrote an article about the Seahawks players themselves not being able to comprehend why the coaching staff made that call.
Seahawks Head Coach Pete Carroll attempted to explain the rationale for the call and to take full responsibility for it. However, his explanations made little sense to other fellow coaches and former players, with Steve Young going so far as to say Carroll's explanation makes even less sense out of the play because in that situation, with a timeout, there is no need to "waste a play". Young and Tom Jackson both agreed on NFL Primetime, ESPN's flagship NFL program, which aired immediately after the Super Bowl, that Carroll may well be attempting to deflect blame from Bevell and QB Russell Wilson.
Wilson offered little solace to angry Seahawks fans after the game in post game interviews, stating "if you want to blame someone, blame me, I made the throw." The Seattle Times, local paper that covers the Seahawks in-depth, offered extensive coverage of the play and the ensuing debate.
Football Analysis of the Play
The decision to pass vs run comes down to several key factors for NFL coaches. This is explained with the FACTOR - reasoning and information format given here:
Personnel - what personnel are available to the offense, and what personnel are the defense bringing to the field
Down and distance - what down is this play, how many downs do I have remaining, and how much distance do I need to either get a new set of downs or score points
Clock management - do I want to continue running the clock after this play, or do I want to stop the clock
Tempo - what type of flow is there to the game, and do I want to keep the same flow or change the tempo
Chance for success - if the play goes wrong, what are the worst things that can happen vs the chance for successful play
Situational awareness - what quarter is it, what is the score, how much time is left
Recent history evaluation - what plays have I run before that have been or not been successful in this situation, what plays have I not run that I believe give us the best chance for success
Player feedback - what do my players think of this play? Specifically, if it is a pass, what does my QB feel about his chances to execute the play?
The criticism here mainly focuses on Bevell's recent history evaluation, down and distance, and personnel selection. WIth less than a minute remaining, needing only a yard to score and take the lead, Bevell had a slew of choices. The greatest chance for success is typically what motivates coaches in any sport to make a decision. At the NFL level with professional athletes, coaches often talk of "putting your players in the best position". This means that you recognize your team's strength versus their weaknesses, and make your decisions accordingly. As such, many people feel Bevell failed here most critically for these reasons:
Marshawn Lynch is one of the most surehanded backs in football and one of the most difficult to tackle. He also led the NFL in rushing touchdowns in the 2014 season. For this reason alone, many people believe you give him the ball and let him have three chances to get into the endzone.
Passing at the goal line into the middle of the defense presents the greatest opportunity for the ball to get deflectd, batted down at the line of scrimmage, dropped, or worse, intercepted, because this is where the most number of people are on the field. Thus, the greater the number of people, the greater the chance for something unexpected to happen.
The Seahawks have a dual threat QB in Russell Wilson. Wilson can run or pass. If the choice to pass was made, many analysts believe Wilson should have been able to make that choice himself by rolling outside of the tackles (or pocket) and deciding whether to throw or try to run it in to endzone.
The choice to call this particular type of pass is what is most baffling to analysts, especially former Quarterbacks. Many former QBs feel a fade route into the corner of the endzone or a "jump ball" throw where you throw it high above your receivers head and give them a chance to get the ball or let the ball go out of the end zone is a much better choice.
At the end of the day, for football enthusiasts, non-enthusasts, and Seahawk fans alike, there are a myriad of reasons as to why this is considered a bad call. Bevell himself made limited contact with the media, and offered only a cursory explanation for his choice while also possibly trying to deflect blame onto his players.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.159.105.76 (talk) 00:03, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I've collapse the voluminous text added in good faith by 50.159.105.76. Any past version of an article is also available for reference to editors through standard page history.—Bagumba (talk) 00:48, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Bowl 49 Controversy 

message: The decision to pass vs run comes down to several key factors for NFL coaches. This is explained with the FACTOR - reasoning and information format given here:
* Personnel - what personnel are available to the offense, and what personnel are the defense bringing to the field
* Down and distance - what down is this play, how many downs do I have remaining, and how much distance do I need to either get a new set of downs or score points
* Clock management - do I want to continue running the clock after this play, or do I want to stop the clock
* Tempo - what type of flow is there to the game, and do I want to keep the same flow or change the tempo
* Chance for success - if the play goes wrong, what are the worst things that can happen vs the chance for successful play
* Situational awareness - what quarter is it, what is the score, how much time is left
* Recent history evaluation - what plays have I run before that have been or not been successful in this situation, what plays have I not run that I believe give us the best chance for success
* Player feedback - what do my players think of this play? Specifically, if it is a pass, what does my QB feel about his chances to execute the play?
The criticism here mainly focuses on Bevell's recent history evaluation, down and distance, and personnel selection. WIth less than a minute remaining, needing only a yard to score and take the lead, Bevell had a slew of choices. The greatest chance for success is typically what motivates coaches in any sport to make a decision. At the NFL level with professional athletes, coaches often talk of "putting your players in the best position". This means that you recognize your team's strength versus their weaknesses, and make your decisions accordingly. As such, many people feel Bevell failed here most critically for these reasons:\
1. Marshawn Lynch is one of the most surehanded backs in football and one of the most difficult to tackle. He also led the NFL in rushing touchdowns in the 2014 season. For this reason alone, many people believe you give him the ball and let him have three chances to get into the endzone.
2. Passing at the goal line into the middle of the defense presents the greatest opportunity for the ball to get deflectd, batted down at the line of scrimmage, dropped, or worse, intercepted, because this is where the most number of people are on the field. Thus, the greater the number of people, the greater the chance for something unexpected to happen.
3. The Seahawks have a dual threat QB in Russell Wilson. Wilson can run or pass. If the choice to pass was made, many analysts believe Wilson should have been able to make that choice himself by rolling outside of the tackles (or pocket) and deciding whether to throw or try to run it in to endzone.
4. The choice to call this particular type of pass is what is most baffling to analysts, especially former Quarterbacks. Many former QBs feel a fade route into the corner of the endzone or a "jump ball" throw where you throw it high above your receivers head and give them a chance to get the ball or let the ball go out of the end zone is a much better choice.
At the end of the day, for football enthusiasts, non-enthusasts, and Seahawk fans alike, there are a myriad of reasons as to why this is considered a bad call. Bevell himself made limited contact with the media, and offered only a cursory explanation for his choice while also possibly trying to deflect blame onto his players.
I'm moving all of this text here because as it is, it should not be on the page. If anything constructive can be made of this, that's something else. -Some Guy
Super Bowl 49 Controversy
In the 2015 NFL Championship game (Super Bowl XLIX) which ended the 2014-2015 season, the Seattle Seahawks were defeated by the New England Patriots 28-24. The Seahawks had a chance to win the game at the end when they had possession of the ball with just over 1 minute remaining at the 5 yard line of the Patriots. On first and goal, Bevell called a running play that saw Marshawn Lynch, widely considered the most difficult running back in the NFL to tackle, gain 4 yards off the left side of the offensive line where he was tackled at the 1 yard line. The Seahawks had 1 timeout remaining. With 26 seconds left, on second down, Seattle QB Russell Wilson attempted a pass to wide receiver Ricardo Lockette, who ran a 3 yard slant route off a set pick play where the 2nd of 3 Seattle wide receivers, Jermaine Kearse, engaged his defensive player at the line of scrimmage to allow Lockette time to get in position to catch Wilson's pass. However, undrafted rookie free agent Malcolm Butler intercepted the pass by performing a move that is colloquially referred to in football terms as "jumping the route". Butler, in a post game interview , stated that he recognized the Seahawks formation and remembered that they almost always ran a slant-pick play out of the stacked WR formation. Butler also claimed in another interview that he "had a vision of himself making a great play to win the game" moments before the snap, which convinced him that he was 100% sure the Seahawks were going to throw a slant route. Replays of the play clearly showed Butler firing off of his position and moving to the very spot the pass was thrown to, just hundreths of a second before Lockette was to arrive and catch the ball. Butler collided with Lockette immediately upon making the interception, and fell forward at the 1 yard line to secure the interception, thus allowing the Patriots to resume possession of the ball where they were able to successfully run out the clock, giving them the 28-24 victory over the Seahawks.
Criticism of the Seahawks choice of play on 2nd down resulted in massive amounts of discussion among fans, announcers, analysts, and even casual viewers of the game. The controversy centers of Bevell's choice to throw the football when the Seahawks had Marshawn Lynch in their backfield, available to run the ball. Lynch is widely considered the best short yardage running back in the NFL at this time, and fans and analysts everywhere fully expected the Seahawks to give the ball to Lynch to gain the single yard needed to score the go-ahead touchdown. NBC announcer Al Michaels shouted after the interception "UNREAL!". NBC Color Commentator Chris Collinsworth, Michael's broadcast partner, was immediately both incredulous and suspicious of the call, flat out disagreeing with it right after the play ended. Collinsworth stated that he "just doesn't agree with that call" when the Seahawks had Lynch available.
The list of people who have openly critcized Bevell is extensive. Hall of fame running back Emmitt Smith stated it was "the worst call he has ever seen in the history of football." A hashtag search on Twitter for #worstcallever reveals an incredible list of people who flat out believe it was the single worst call in the history of the Super Bowl. ESPN Football Analysts Steve Young, Trent Dilfer, and Tom Jackson were beside themselves after the game, with Dilfer levying especially harsh criticism. Dilfer stated that "1 million out of 1 million times, you should hand the ball off to Marshawn Lynch in that situation."
Former NFL head coach Herman Edwards discussed the call as well and stated that he "is sick about this call". Columnist John Branch of the New York Times wrote about the call and how widely criticized it is fast becoming. USA Today Sportswriter Lorenzo Reyes wrote an article about the Seahawks players themselves not being able to comprehend why the coaching staff made that call.
Seahawks Head Coach Pete Carroll attempted to explain the rationale for the call and to take full responsibility for it. However, his explanations made little sense to other fellow coaches and former players, with Steve Young going so far as to say Carroll's explanation makes even less sense out of the play because in that situation, with a timeout, there is no need to "waste a play". Young and Tom Jackson both agreed on NFL Primetime, ESPN's flagship NFL program, which aired immediately after the Super Bowl, that Carroll may well be attempting to deflect blame from Bevell and QB Russell Wilson.
Wilson offered little solace to angry Seahawks fans after the game in post game interviews, stating "if you want to blame someone, blame me, I made the throw." The Seattle Times, local paper that covers the Seahawks in-depth, offered extensive coverage of the play and the ensuing debate.
Football Analysis of the Play
The decision to pass vs run comes down to several key factors for NFL coaches. This is explained with the FACTOR - reasoning and information format given here:
Personnel - what personnel are available to the offense, and what personnel are the defense bringing to the field
Down and distance - what down is this play, how many downs do I have remaining, and how much distance do I need to either get a new set of downs or score points
Clock management - do I want to continue running the clock after this play, or do I want to stop the clock
Tempo - what type of flow is there to the game, and do I want to keep the same flow or change the tempo
Chance for success - if the play goes wrong, what are the worst things that can happen vs the chance for successful play
Situational awareness - what quarter is it, what is the score, how much time is left
Recent history evaluation - what plays have I run before that have been or not been successful in this situation, what plays have I not run that I believe give us the best chance for success
Player feedback - what do my players think of this play? Specifically, if it is a pass, what does my QB feel about his chances to execute the play?
The criticism here mainly focuses on Bevell's recent history evaluation, down and distance, and personnel selection. WIth less than a minute remaining, needing only a yard to score and take the lead, Bevell had a slew of choices. The greatest chance for success is typically what motivates coaches in any sport to make a decision. At the NFL level with professional athletes, coaches often talk of "putting your players in the best position". This means that you recognize your team's strength versus their weaknesses, and make your decisions accordingly. As such, many people feel Bevell failed here most critically for these reasons:
Marshawn Lynch is one of the most surehanded backs in football and one of the most difficult to tackle. He also led the NFL in rushing touchdowns in the 2014 season. For this reason alone, many people believe you give him the ball and let him have three chances to get into the endzone.
Passing at the goal line into the middle of the defense presents the greatest opportunity for the ball to get deflectd, batted down at the line of scrimmage, dropped, or worse, intercepted, because this is where the most number of people are on the field. Thus, the greater the number of people, the greater the chance for something unexpected to happen.
The Seahawks have a dual threat QB in Russell Wilson. Wilson can run or pass. If the choice to pass was made, many analysts believe Wilson should have been able to make that choice himself by rolling outside of the tackles (or pocket) and deciding whether to throw or try to run it in to endzone.
The choice to call this particular type of pass is what is most baffling to analysts, especially former Quarterbacks. Many former QBs feel a fade route into the corner of the endzone or a "jump ball" throw where you throw it high above your receivers head and give them a chance to get the ball or let the ball go out of the end zone is a much better choice.
At the end of the day, for football enthusiasts, non-enthusasts, and Seahawk fans alike, there are a myriad of reasons as to why this is considered a bad call. Bevell himself made limited contact with the media, and offered only a cursory explanation for his choice while also possibly trying to deflect blame onto his players.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.159.105.76 (talk) 00:03, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I've collapse the voluminous text added in good faith by 50.159.105.76. Any past version of an article is also available for reference to editors through standard page history.—Bagumba (talk) 00:48, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Football Analysis of the Play

message: There has been a concern expressed that our information regarding our statement reading  is incorrect, and should read 1996 NFL draft. I remain unconvinced, but in the interest of collaboration/consensus/getting-more-eyes-on-it I have brought it here.
Claims of 1995 Draft:
* (current source) - 
* - 
* - 
* - 
Things that don't specifically contradict the above:
* - 
* - 
Claims of 1996 Draft:
* - 
As an interesting note,  (and a few other stats pages) show his football stats for the 1995 season, but this does not mean that he was undrafted in '95. I honestly don't know when the whole "you have to quit university teams if you Draft" rule came into effect, so it's possible he went undrafted in '95 and '96.
Thoughts and opinions are appreciated. Primefac (talk) 13:29, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This says "Once a player declares for the draft, they forego their remaining eligibility to play college football, which means that once they declare for the draft they cannot return to play in college." So unless they changed the rules, he shouldn't have been able to return to play college football in 1995 if he went undrafted earlier that year. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 17:48, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Was that the rule 20 years ago? I genuinely don't know. And if those were the rules, why do we have four sources saying he was undrafted in '95? Primefac (talk) 17:50, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This says he was undrafted in 1996. Article from 1995, "Once the players have decided to enter the draft, the National Collegiate Athletic Association prohibits them from returning to play in college". Those sources that say 1995 just seem to be incorrect. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 20:53, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, colour me convinced. Primefac (talk) 23:24, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which NFL Draft?