Talk:List of Puerto Ricans/Archive 1

message: Heyy!! Sirs! All the persons that affirm that Jennifer Lopez is not a Puerto Rican and that all that born in the States are not Puerto Ricans has to consider the following facts too. Following the previuos Line of argument no one can say I am Puerto Rican because the Puerto Rican citizenship does not exist. Then someone could think: "the list of Famous Puerto Ricans is really a List of Puerto Rican Americans". Other Point is that the previous point
is not accurate the american Citizenship granted by the Jones law is a statutory citizenship
(Please see the Task force report of Bush administration recently published), Puerto Ricans that born in the island could lost their citizenship if United States of America relinquish the covenant with the commonwealth of Puerto Rico and force them to be independent. Puerto Ricans born in the island can not be President of the United States of America neither to vote for the US Presidency from the island of PR. So, That citizenship make Puerto Ricans a second class citizens of USA. This line of Argument gives ligth to this matter, here is the fact that there is a hidden not active Puerto Rican Citizenship that could be activated If United States decides that. The American citizenship is Statutory, then, If United States Relinquish his covenant and his sovereingty over Puerto Rico, The statutory citizenship will cease because according to the Task force report of Bush administration recently published said that statutory citizenship follows The US Sovereingty. If that happens and everything is posible in this world, The hidden Puerto Rican Citizenship will be activated.
So, this could lead us to the situation that if United states reliquish the covenant and make PR independent some Puerto Ricans could get a dual Citizenship as Colombian-americans and others. In this way a Puerto Rican could be an American at the same time by means of dual citizenship wich is legal and constitutional. 
Then, we can conclude that Being Puerto Rican is a matter of a feeling in the hearts of Many Puerto Rican Americans in United States. I can perceive two reasons why a
Puerto Rican-american could consider himself a Puerto Rican.
Because he loves Puerto Rico and its culture or because some americans discriminates against them and make them feel inferiors Forcing them to Identify themselves as Puerto Ricans. This is not an ugly matter to avoid to be discussed is a historical fact. This happened with the indians that the americans rejected and declare them a separate nation inside their Nation. This is happening with Blacks-americans that even after been killed culturally you never accept them completely. This is a shamefull fact that has to be spoken to make sure that future generations of americans accept minorities completely and integrates them fully and without any hypocresy by all our american brothers. amen. by: Martin R. Rodriguez, born in Brooklyn NY but he grew up in Manatí Puerto Rico. See the 2005 article of Yale-New Haven Teachers Institute Parallel Studies of the Afro-American and Puerto Rican Experience in America by Juanita W. William, see Los Angeles Times, December 26, 1901, Please investigate How English language was Forced By USA during the first decades of the American rulership in the schools of Puerto Rico, Please investigate what happened in the case of Puerto Rican 65th Infantry Army Regiment during The Korean War, Please Investigate How Those soldiers were convicted but later exhonerated By United States of America. Please Investigate the case of Juan Melendez condemned to the death penalty and released recently or See my personal experience hired with false promises, harrassed, discriminated and discharge after 4 months of employment with no reason given.later, My employer Tekla Inc. located at 600 Town Park Lane Suite 175 Kennesaw GA 30144, put me in Cobb County jail, In the state of Georgia with charges of Criminal trespassing Remain  without drinking water, without the right to call or write an e-mail to my family in Puerto Rico and My wife in Colombia South America and without the right to be provided with gloves when I volunteered to clean the toilets in Cobb county Jail of the state of Georgia. All of this because I delivered back a software I rented to my employer and requested the Cheaper lease offer Tekla Inc. is giving to others or My Job Back. I am a handicap and only can do the Engineering work I was trained in college, I was needing money to survive and I need to bring my wife to USA, I have to keep the promise I gave to clients because they gave me subcontract engineering drafting Jobs. Now I do not have clients, I have criminal charges to face, I do not have Money to survive and my wife is awaiting for her immigrant visa that will expire in march. That visa will not be granted if I do not have work. I have a court date in February 10, 2006. I can not accept work before that date and I can not accept work after that date if I am in Jail again or covicted. If I accept Federal aid in any way My wife visa will not be granted. I am a new kind of cherokee indian, God Bless America. 
Does being born in Puerto Rico make you Puerto Rican?  I don't know if Joaquin Phoenix qualifies.  RickK 05:05, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
Does being born in New York make you a New Yorker? Does being born in the U.S. make you an American? Yes it does, by birth.  If a Russian couple moved to the U.S. and had a child here, their child would be an American citizen with all the rights a citizen has even if the parents aren't American.  Being born in Puerto Rico makes Joaquin Phoenix a Puerto Rican by birth.  He has never stated otherwise.  Besides Puerto Rico is an American territory and the people there are American citizens by birth.  This is not about qualifieing as if it were a sporting event, this is about what states his birth certificate which is that he was born in San Juan, Puerto Rico.  I would appreciate it if RickK would stop making an issue about Joaquin Phoenix already!User:Marine 69-71
:I believe that RickK is referring to "Puerto Rican" as an ethnicity, rather than as a relationship to a location.  In fact, I would say that if your requirement for being on this list is being born in Puerto Rico, you'd have to take off a lot of these entries, including Jennifer Lopez and Freddie Prinze Jr..  - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:21, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)
Joaquin Phoenix is Puerto Rican "by Birth", he lived his first six years among Puerto Ricans.  Jennifer Lopez is by ethnicity, such as Frank Sinatra was Italian-American.  See Puerto Rican.
I suggest we drop this subject before it becomes an ugly, racial matter. I do believe wikipedia is Non point of view, and racial, ugly matter fall under point of view. Like I said before, if a Russian parents-child, for example, is born in the United States, that doesnt make him/her less Russian than Lenin,  nor less American than George Washington
User:Marine 69-71.
I've taken out Mark Spitz after an email query.  I can't find any reference to a Puerto Rican mother - everything I've read so far has just said "Jewish-American".  I'm heading for the library sometime over the next two days - so I'll see if I can find anything there too. If anyone else finds verification, perhaps they would replace it -- sannse (talk) 11:39, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: I agree with the above editor. We need to alphabetize this entry. Smylere Snape 20:18, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Waleska Martinez's notability or lack thereof may be answered witha question? What great contribution did she make in her life for us to commemorate? Joelito (talk) 03:50, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Per Wikipedia:Notability (people) for deceased people :"Has the person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in the specific field?" I still believe the answer regardin Waleska is no. On the other hand, David Sanes was the unwilling catalyst for the removal of the U.S. Navy from Vieques. Joelito (talk) 18:57, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I still believe that her being on that flight lacks the notability necessary for inclusion in this list because she did not make a "contribution that is part of the enduring historical record". Joelito (talk) 03:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alphabetization

message: I see that with many other Hispanic/Latino nationalities on Wikipedia that diplomats are included in the general list. IT was just announced that President Bush nominated a Puerto Rican to be the nation's Ambassador to the nations of Mauritius and the Seychelles, both located in the Indian Ocean. Once approved by the Senate, he is becomes the second Puerto Rican to serve as an ambassador in this current administration (the other is the Ambassador to the Dominican Republic). There have been many Puerto Rican ambassadors in the past and when I have tried to add them to the list someone removes it. I hereby want to introduce the creation of a "diplomats" section in the list. If not, I would like to include these names in the "other" section. --XLR8TION 02:39, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New Categories/Classification

message: Can we add actor/producer Axel Anderson to this list. Although born in Germany and is of German-Jewish ancestry, he immigrated to Puerto Rico over 50 years ago and considers himself, much like Tony Croatto as Puerto Rican regardless when he was born. Axel's entry on the IMDb is  http://imdb.com/name/nm0026388/  .--XLR8TION 02:48, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Puerto Rican immigrant artists

message: Fair use images may not be used for decorative purposes. They may only be used to illustrate a specific point within the text, when it is absolutely neccessary. If you wish to readd the public domain images - please double check their PD status first, as many of them were of people born after 1923, and therefore not covered by the PD-US tags they were labelled with. ed g2s • talk 18:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would further like to encourage editors here to, in the future, not revert image cleanup.  It is policy to keep unfree content to a minimum.  It is necessary that all unfree media needs to give its source, information on the copyright holder, and have a fair use rationale.  Please be more cautious about copyright issues going forward.  Jkelly 18:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Please note that those who continue reverting after copyright policy has been explained are liable to be blocked from editing. Fair use images are permissible, but only when the image itself is the subject of discussion. If this article does not discuss anything, it cannot have any fair use images. Johnleemk | Talk 19:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Come on, don't get your panties in a bunch over a simple dispute. There is no need to block or threaten to block anyone over such a triviality. Policy has been explained and that is it. I must, however, mention that if this were clearly defined in WP:FUC instead of the present ambiguous "decorative" statement then most of this discussions could be avoided. Joelito (talk) 19:29, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Editors of other lists have been rather recalcitrant over adherence to policy. And multiple reverts of an edit preventing Wikipedia from getting in legal trouble clearly calls for a formal warning. Johnleemk | Talk 21:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The flag is fine.  The coat-of-arms is actually problematic, believe it or not.  Individual artists hold copyright on specific illustrations of coats-of-arms, despite their heraldic descriptions typically being in the public domain.  The satellite image of the island has no source for it being in the public domain, as well.  Jkelly 22:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added the NASA domain where the satellite picture is hosted. Joelito (talk) 23:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, thank you.  Jkelly 23:24, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

text: commons:Category:People of Puerto Rico is rather disappointing.  We do have some freely-licensed images at :commons:Category:Jennifer Lopez, however.  Jkelly 22:57, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I can't just about understand using the flag to help visually identify the country - but the coat of arms and satellite map are information that really just belong on Puerto Rico. They have no relevance to this article. ed g2s • talk 09:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose they could be used to prettify the article. Still, you're right, there is no relevance. Anyway, it doesn't matter, as long as the images are free. If they're free, we can do whatever the hell we want with them. :p Johnleemk | Talk 16:39, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, within the guidelines of unfree images. But within the guidelines of using relevant material etc. they perhaps should be removed. ed g2s • talk 16:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: How is a satellite photo of Puerto Rico relevant to listing Puerto Rican people? Just because an image is free, doesn't mean we should use it. ed g2s • talk 14:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Frankly I do not care if you regard it as relevant or not. Tony and I maintain this list so please allow us to keep the free images we desire. Believe it or not such a triviality makes our jobs a little easier. Joelito (talk) 15:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not make the mistake that you own any articles on Wikipedia, despite being major contributors. ed g2s • talk 20:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The hundreds of Puerto Ricans listed either came or their  desendents came from our beloved island whose public domain image we have.  Readers will read in "awe" when they see how many talented people whose contributions to society in general have been many and that they came from this small island.  That these people represent this small but, wonderful island isn't revelant enough is beyond believe.  Continued deletion of this image will be considered in "bad faith" and an insult to our people in general.  Tony the Marine 22:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So you're admitting to pushing a POV? ed g2s • talk 20:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: As User: XLR8TION stated in my User page:[], I also agree that there are too many people listed in the "List of Puerto Ricans" who may have had only there 15 minutes of fame (He's added some himself).  However, let me make myself clear, I don't believe that "just" because a person was a diplomat automatically makes you a notable or famous Puerto Rican, which is what the "list" is supposed to be about.  Yes, Horacio Rivero and Teodoro MoscosoJr. are notable but, the first one as a militaryman and the second as a local Puerto Rican politician whose "Operation Bootstrap" helped the economy of the island.  They did "not" become notable as diplomats.  I understand that it would be nice to "show" the world that the island has the ability to sustain diplomatic relations with other countries as XLR8TION wants to point out but, the "List of Puerto Ricans" is supposed to be about Puerto Ricans who have made some type of contribution to society in general or that for some reason have gained fame or notability.  Wikipedia is not a political forum where we must "show" the world our ability to become an independent nation.  My advice to XLR8TION, if you do not agree with someones action, discuss it first and maybe a comprimise may be reached.  Tony the Marine 00:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Diplomats

message: Please refrain from putting references on the main page. All references relating to someone's ancestry are put on the appropriate article not on the main list. Who is this Victoria Justice and why does a child star from Nickelodeon has and must have a reference on the main list when they are far more important individuals than her who don't have references of their Puerto Rican culture on this list. If anyone is going to be on this list they are Puerto Rican and the facts will be checked by the page's monitors. --XLR8TION 05:07, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, this is incorrect. We do not rely on citations on other pages, nor can one Wikipedia article be used to source another article. With these X or X-American pages, you need explicit sources on the page. See any X-American page out there. Wiki lists do not differ in any way from Wiki articles. Both have to be sourced. I could stick an "unsourced" tag on the top of this page, as has been done to other pages, but I don't want to do that, because I plan to eventually source all the names. I don't see why you wish to impede this process. Mad Jack 05:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't think you understand. It doesn't matter what several users agree or do not agree on. Every list and article on Wikipedia needs sources. I can stick an "unsourced" tag on this page right now and you can not remove it, because, indeed, this list is not sourced. Not a single name on this list has a source right by the name that says that person is a Puerto Rican. Start with, say, List of French Americans and keep going through all the X-American pages. They all have sources. Other lists need sources. It's as simple as that. I don't know why that bothers you. If the list becomes too big that's not a problem. We can split it off to separate lists, i.e. List of Puerto Rican actors, etc. This list is big enough at the moment anyway, so that probably needs to be done. Mad Jack 05:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

text: What is the problem with splitting off the lists into smaller lists? This list is huge as is. It's bigger than any list out there. It desperately needs to be split off (See how this was done in, say, List of Jewish Americans). As for sources, again, you simply can't source one Wikipedia article with another Wikipedia article! Mad Jack 05:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, as for splitting off the page, sure. But there is no question that this, like all other lists, needs to be sourced. Every Wiki article does, and it cannot be done by "look at the other page to source this page". I'm willing to do the sourcing myself, if you don't want to. Mad Jack 05:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, we can't just say "all the refences are there so go look there". There is no reason not to source the page. The thing is - this page clearly needs to be split into smaller sub-sections. It's exceeding the size limit as is. And if we do split it - which we should - there's no reason at all not to source the separate pages - if anything, it adds more credibility to the list. Mad Jack 05:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References on main list page

message: I was surprised to see he was not on the list. Any reason? 68.113.104.169 20:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pablo Casals 

message: Appointed by Governor-elect Elliot Spitzer as New York's next Secretary of State; she previously was a Governmental Affairs VP with Cablevision, and preciously served as Chief of Staff to former New York State Assemblyman Roberto Ramírez
http://www.endi.com/noticia/puerto_rico_hoy/noticias/feminas__boricuas__al_gabinete/133316 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.50.30.121 (talk) 06:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lorraine Cortés Vázquez 

message: Request add the name of Sixto Lezcano Currás to list. Major League Baseball Star of the 70's and 80's and a hero to many who have played this game we call baseball.66.50.18.75 18:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add the name of Sixto Lezcano 

message: To the people involved, The proper forum for the discussion in regard of the "first ladies of Puerto Rico" would be the talk page of the "List of Puerto Ricans".
I would like to state the following.  I believe that only those who have made notable contributions to society in general, be either positive or negative, and that are either Puerto Ricans, Puerto Rican descent or have adopted Puerto Rico as their homeland should be in the list.  These should be personal accomplishments which have given these people a certain degree of fame.  
A person is not famous or notable just because she was a "First Lady" unless that person's personal accomplishments has been notable.  For example: Former first ladies Betty Ford]] is notable because she established a renowned rehab. center and Hillary Clinton because she became a Senator and is running for president. These ladies can be "listed" as famous Americans, yet what did Julia Dent Grant accomplish besides being a first lady?  It would fine to have Mrs. Grant's name in a "List of First Ladies", but not in a "List of famous Americans".
I suggest that one of the persons involved in this discussion create a "List of Puerto Rican First Ladies" and list these ladies there.      
Take this as an example, I created the article Puerto Rican recipients of the Distinguished Service Cross. There I have listed the fourteen Puerto Ricans who were awarded the second highest military decoration of the United States.  Only one of these men merits to be in the list of "Famous Puerto Ricans" and that is Modesto Cartagena because he is the most decorated Hispanic soldier in history.   Tony the Marine 19:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Puerto Rican First Ladies

message: As a Puerto Rican, born on the island, raised in the states since the age of 2, I consider myself Puerto Rican first OR Puerto Rican-American? Like many people whose ancestors come from other countries still consider themselves African-American, Italian-American, Chinese-American etc.... This list is useful, probably mostly to us Puerto Ricans to see what 'our kind' has accomplished throughout history. I think for purposes of the list someone needs to define the term Puerto Rican as an ethnicity or just a place of birth.  Commonly I think people believe it as an ethnicity thus the J. Phoenix comments arise.  Perhaps keep it in terms of ethnicity and add a header famous persons born on the island or something to that affect.  --Terwills 23:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please Do Not Delete this Page!!! 

message: I have reinserted García Méndez' name in the list of prominent politicians, at the same time that I have not attempted to remove multiple names that have less of a reason to be on the list, because it is preferable to err on the inclusiveness side.  He was the youngest Speaker ever, has major highways and other public works named after him, was the last leader of the Statehood Republican Party, founded Westernbank and one of the island's great orators.
200.50.30.18 03:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miguel A. García Méndez 

message: With the exception of Catholic Bishops Alvaro Corrada and Roberto González Nieves, Pentecostal Bishop Angel Marcial is the only other ecclesiastical leader in Puerto Rico who has held an important ecclesiastical office on the mainland United States.  I believe that his deletion from the list should be reconsidered and he should be reinstated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.50.30.90 (talk) 21:30, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bishop Angel Marcial 

message: The founder and editor of El Vocero, Mr. Roca initially filled the market niche for a crime-oriented tabloid left by the closing of El Imparcial newspaper.  Under his leadership, El Vocero evolved into what it is today, a mainstream newspaper that can now be described as a tabloid only in the size of the paper it is printed on, with legitimate news occupying its front page and most news pages, an illustrious set of columnists, including Luis Dávila Colón, José Arsenio Torres, Roberto Rexach Benítez, Eudaldo Báez Galib and Juan Manuel García Passalacqua, and a wide variety of sections and supplements.  One of his most important contributions to journalism was his willingness to bankroll important freedom-of-information lawsuits that have opened government to intense press and public scrutiny, an example of which is the Supreme Court decision to open preliminary hearings to the press.  Prior to founding El Vocero,  the Wharton School-trained economist held prominent positions in government and the private sector, including the presidency of PRIDCO.  Born in 1926, he died on April 8, 2007.  A memorial service, officiated by San Juan's Roman Catholic Archbishop will be held next week at San Juan's Cathedral.
Source:
http://www.endi.com/XStatic/endi/template/nota.aspx?n=194288 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.50.30.126 (talk) 04:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaspar Roca 

message: I fully agree that Roca should be in the list. As for Bishop Angel Marcial I would like to see a site that reaffirms that Bishop Angel Marcial is the only other ecclesiastical leader in Puerto Rico who has held an important ecclesiastical office on the mainland United States. If there is a source then I too would agree that his name also belongs in the list. Tony the Marine 05:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bishop Angel Marcial and Gaspar Roca

message: This weekend I spent cleaning up this list. Removed many non-notables and apparent vanity pages and vandalism. I also surprisingly removed the names of a race horse! If anyone spots a name on the list that is apparently a vanity entry, please inform me. I will be deleting self-promoting links soon and will require assistance in marking pages for deletion according to this website's policy of self-promotion (aka "vanity" pages).--XLR8TION 11:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: Please note that this is a conversation I had with the editor who is entering Edwin Muniz repeatedly to the list:
<<[edit] Edwin Muniz
Please cite refernces for this entry of else it will be deleted. Multiple re-entry of this name will be labeled as vandalism Please cite your cources on why he is notable. Any further attempts without reasnable citations will be deleted and will be reported to site administrators for further action.--XLR8TION 19:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Edwin Muniz

message: I put in a link to List of Puerto Rican artists.  The list on that page is longer than the list of artists here.  I don't suggest it's better--it may be more comprehensive, it may have more vanity links.  However, it seems to me that keeping a link from this page to that is useful if only so that such comparisons are possible.  XLR8TION reverted my link without explanation and seems decidedly unwilling to engage in any discussion.  I know this is a pretty minor matter.  But I'd have thought that some good faith attempt to achieve consensus might be an improvement on acting as though one individual owned the page, however much effort he or she has put in on that page, as in this case.  --Jbmurray 23:17, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The same goes, mutatis mutandis natch, for List of Puerto Rican writers.  --Jbmurray 23:23, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No wild claims from me.  I simply noted that you had reverted without discussion, and refused to talk about the issue when I tried to raise it.  Moreover, that you are acting as though you owned the page, as your subsequent comments here ("I have maintained a list consistently") further bear out.  The links I put in are no "fillers."  I'd be grateful if you address the points I made.  And cut down on the ad hominem attacks.  Thanks.  --Jbmurray 23:43, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ay.  My point was that you were (and still are) acting as though you owned it.  (Though, yes, I did make my point via some irony.)  Of course you don't own it.  (See the page to which I linked at the time: WP:OWN.)  And I fully agree (and have said) that you've put in lots of good work on this page.  Again, that doesn't mean you own it, or that you can or should revert without comment and/or refuse discussion.  Let alone start with your bizarre personal attacks.  Again, the links I included were not "fillers."  If consensus emerges that they should go at the end of the list, so be it.  Can I suggest it might be constructive if you'd pass your eye over those linked pages, too.  Given the work you've done on this page, you should be able to note any obvious vanity entries rather quickly.  That would certainly be helpful.  And that task is made easier for all of us by including the links.  Again, I note that the linked pages are longer: should they be or not?  I'd very much appreciate your input.  Thanks.  --Jbmurray 23:54, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to List of Puerto Rican Artists 

message: * In order to repeat names on the list twice, the subject should be listed under the category they are best known for. In Eugenia Maria de Hostos's case, he was an educator (and hence writing is a part of education) and is primary know for his education and philosophy contributions, Therefore, he should be listed under Educators.
Another example include Jennifer Lopez (mainly known for acting, therefore should be listed there and not as singer). A blurb will mention she is a singer, however she started her solo career mainly as an actress.
Please also refer to the article Spanish naming customs to list names properly on the list. Two surnames can often cause confus--XLR8TION 00:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fully aware of Spanish naming customs.  And also 1) of the fact that Hostos is always categorized under "H" plus 2) of the fact that he's one of the most important writers of the Puerto Rican literary tradition.  Whatever you may know him for, within the section on "authors" he really should be there.  On both issues, if you want a quick source, take a gander at this site.  --Jbmurray 00:49, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And agreed on Lopez, though it does get tricky when people achieve fame under multiple categories.  This is perhaps especially the case for the 19th Century in Latin America.  --Jbmurray 00:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh, and a quick glance at Spanish naming customs shows it's rather unclear on "de."  That page could be improved.  But for another example (of many), see Francisco Goya, aka Francisco José de Goya y Lucientes.  --Jbmurray 00:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Heh.  It's the wisdom of crowds.  Anyhow, no problem.  --Jbmurray 03:42, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: De Hostos

message: XLR8TION has reverted my correction that we should be referring to the "islands", rather than the "island" of Puerto Rico.  When we refer to Puerto Rico, we are normally referring to Puerto Rico in the political, rather than geographic sense.  In the political sense, we are referring to the jurisdiction that includes the island called "Puerto Rico", three other populated islands, including the island of San Juan (which includes, Old San Juan and Puerta de Tierra) which is physically detached from the island of Puerto Rico, the island of Vieques and the island of Culebra.  It also includes several unpopulated islands under Puerto Rico's political jurisdiction, including Mona, Desecheo, Isla Caja de Muertos, Monito, Culebrita, among others.  
If you refer to the island (singular) of Puerto Rico, you are speaking in a strictly geographic sense about the island of Puerto Rico, to the exclusion of all other islands under the political jurisdiction of Puerto Rico.
I suggest, once again, that the introductory reference be corrected to state the "islands" of Puerto Rico. 200.50.30.126 03:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Islands" of Puerto Rico