Talk:Vagrancy

message: This crime is still being punished with a 30 - 180 day stint in JAIL in the US, because business concerns, law enforcement and "solid citizens"'s concerns regarding criminal behavior of vagrants and illegal aliens. 205.240.146.156 06:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Crime

message: "Historically, vagrancy in Western societies was associated with petty crime, begging and lawlessness, and punishable by law with forced labor, military service, imprisonment, or confinement to dedicated labor houses."
There's an undeniable implication here that military service is a sort of punishment, or at least comparable to detainment in a labor camp or a prison. Military service greatly differs from country to country, as well as time to time, and surely it is not apt to list it in such a manner as one of several "punishments" that were inflicted upon the homeless throughout history. Military service may, for some, be a solution for vagrancy if one deems it as a problem they want to solve.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:A041:E93F:FDCD:62D3:2297:8A8D:B020 (talk) 02:51, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Solutions for homelessness 

message: I think there is a distinction between the term Vagrancy, beggars and destitute, therefore I question whether it is ok to use any of the term as a synonym  to the word vagrancy in the article? 
Secondly, one also need to explore what are the outlook in other countries as well, like for the matter in context of Capitalism, Social Movements and Reforms. Changes from the ages in the perspective of the government and the society towards such class.
thirdly we all can come together to at least discuss and bring out our feelings, experiences on the issue.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mansha Singh (talk • contribs) 12:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vagrancy versus Beggars 

message: The opening is far too biased and American centric, with the following line "Vagrancy was a crime in some European countries[when?], but most of these laws have been repealed. Laws against vagrancy in the United States have partly been invalidated as violative of the due process clauses of the U.S. Constitution. However, the FBI report on crime in the United States for 2005 lists 24,359 vagrancy violations.", making it seem as if vagrancy laws were uncommon outside of Europe. Theoretical opinions on the vagrancy laws and the U.S. Constitution are not well here, only the true relation, which from the statistics and American section, are not very good.
The Russian section also needs someone who can understand it to rewrite it, with better grammar. 174.112.18.193 (talk) 02:54, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this article should be re-written to offer a world-wide viewpoint, if possible. Cited scholarly analysis is always preferable to mere quotation of law; we shouldn't aim to provide a directory of vagrancy laws, country by country. Vagrancy laws are a form of social control, and have historical dimensions. They're framed in response to a particular set of social and economic conditions, and are usually altered in response to changes in the same. Haploidavey (talk) 12:17, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  UScentric 

message: I have just cleaned up the entire article. It took me some time to get all this done properly, then two editors came by, reverted my edits, then included scraps of my contributions into the article that made it an even bigger mess than it was before, and put up a cleanup tag.
In return, I have decided to undo my edits to previous revision prior to my contributions, and spend my time doing something more worthwhile in the future. I came here under the assumption that Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia, and I was proven wrong. 210.213.17.203 (talk) 12:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've responded at your talk-page. Haploidavey (talk) 14:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

text: Calm down, please, and don't presume to know what I think, believe or intend. I'm not engaged in an edit-war with you; you're free to restore any cited content; though have to say, it worries me a little when any editor describes their work as "flawless". There's no such beast. Are female vagrants also known as "gentlemen of the road"? Haploidavey (talk) 14:57, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If my work weren't flawless, then you wouldn't have just rewritten a part of it here from the source I have provided in my lead. Have fun with it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.213.17.203 (talk) 17:35, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh dear oh dear. As I've said above: "I'm not engaged in an edit-war with you; you're free to restore any cited content"; you could have restored that yourself. Haploidavey (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

text: And Clue-bot reverted your edits before I did. Haploidavey (talk) 15:01, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  November 2011 

message: In the Weimar Republic the law against vagrancy was relaxed, however it became much more stringent in Nazi Germany, where vagrancy, together with begging, prostitution, and "work-shyness" (arbeitsscheu), was classified "asocial behavior" as punishable by confinement to concentration camps.
I find the pararaph on vagrancy "law" in the third Reich misleading at least. The concentration camps were not institution of punishment, and the act of being sent there was no penal process at all. As a consequnce, not the penal code was applied to "asocial" people, but rather the Polizeigesetze, the [Reichstag_Fire_Decree] (1933), the "Grundlegender Erlaß über die vorbeugende Verbrechensbekämpfung" (1938), and the like (not penal law, but crime prevention law legalizing sheer administrative arbitrariness). I am not aware that penal law  had much influence on the confinement to, or the treatment in concentration camps. Convicts were still sent to jail by the courts.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.193.93.249 (talk) 16:31, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  #Germany (3rd Reich) 

message: The article says: "In the U.S., some local officials encourage vagrants to move away instead of arresting them." Such encouragements are unlawful, because there is no law, according to which the person must leave some place and there is no law, by which police can make such demands. Besides, everyone has the right on fair trial and it is the court, who must make decision about presence or absence of the offence.RethraTemple (talk) 13:25, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unlawful demands of officials 

message: That section only has two lines that don't need citations, which seems unacceptable for wikipedia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.242.200.33 (talk) 04:58, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed for United States section 

message: This statement in the "United States" section needs some temporal qualification:
  "After the American Civil War ... they [unemployed Black Americans] would ... inevitably be re-enlisted back into slavery by white slave holders."
The Civil War ended May 9, 1865; slavery was illegal as of the 13th Amendment, ratified December 6, 1865.
(And in any case, "inevitably" is hyperbolic.)
BMJ-pdx (talk) 22:06, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Re-enlisted back into slavery" *after* the Civil War? 

message: As was pointed out, it seems rogue is pretty much a synonym of vagrant, and vagrant rightfully redirects here, since we usually describe professions / occupations (if this can be called that) under social phenomena (so, homeless (person) redirects to Homelessness). Sometimes those are split due to length issues, etc., but in this case this is not a concern. Anyway, going back to the merge, I can find no reliable sources that discuss difference between rogue and vagrant, except for regional / historical use of those words. Everything that's currently in the rogue article (and that's very little, in fact) could be safely merged to Vagrancy#United_Kingdom. PS. We may also need a separate discussion about whether Vagrancy and Homelessness shouldn't be merged. It seems to me that Vagrancy is de facto a history of homelessness overview, but the underlying topic is the same, with the only possible difference is that vagrancy implies traveling, whereas (modern) homelessness does not have thos connotation. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:34, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: {{anchor|Merge from Rogue}}Merge from Rogue (and Tramp?)

message: Should their be a section on the status of Gypsies/Romani/Roma in medieval and modern Europe
?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.246.205 (talk) 06:34, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gypsies/Romani