Talk:Scoville scale

message: The article states "15 Scoville units is equivalent to one part capsaicin per million."
Logically, the maximum value on the scale can then only be 15 * 1 million parts per million = 15.000.000 SCU, no 16 million as the list states. I could only find sources that agree with the 15 * 1 ppm figure, thus I assume the 16 million value is just a marketing gag of Blair Lazard (16 mio reserve).
If nobody objects, I'll change the value in the list.
--Matthias Bauer 18:45, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and have changed it. njh 22:32, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internal Inconsistency 

message: It seems obvious that this question is meaningless; the measurement processes are too imprecise. It appears that by convention, when the HPLC method is used, the capsaicin concentration in parts per million is multiplied by 15. This is described in the Food Product Design article mentioned above : "The HPLC measures the capsaicinoid(s) in ppm, which can then be converted to Scoville units using a conversion factor of 15, 20 or 30 depending on the capsaicinoid." These round numbers clearly suggest that this is just a rough equivalence. Similarly, the reference, http://www.zarc.com/english/cap-stun/tech_info/oc/hplc.html noted above uses the word "assume," i.e. pure capsaicin is "assumed" to be 15,000,000 units.
The Food Product Design article quotes a technical person as saying "The coefficient of error is 50% for the Scoville method and less than 12% for the HPLC method." Obviously this means that nobody can possibly know whether pure capsaican is "really" 15,000,000 or 16,000,000 on the original organoleptic Scoville scale. In fact, it sounds as if it could easily be anywhere from 10,000,000 to 20,000,000.
Furthermore, even the HPLC method is said to have a 12% error. It's not clear whether that means plus-or-minus 12% or plus-or-minus 6%, but in any case the difference between 15,000,000 and 16,000,000 is only 6.66%.
Too bad Scoville didn't propose a logarithmic scale. Dpbsmith (talk) 14:44, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Scoville method accuracy can be improved arbitrarily by performing the test with multiple participants. 50% of inaccuracy of a single test is not a problem if you average the results and compute the standard deviation with 10,000 participants. 83.14.232.226 (talk) 11:17, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  15,000,000 and 16,000,000 are indistinguishable 

message: I don't know how to do it, but Red Savina Habanero requires the TM symbol. Per the US Trademark database: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=5a67l5.2.1 Tina Brooks 21:02, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Red Savina Habanero (TM)

message: :See also: Schmidt Sting Pain Index to compare the overall pain of insect stings
How is this relevant? It's a scale?--I hope that's not the extent of it. -Tedpennings 09:08, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's pain too :) Seriously, I agree it's not relevant -- 12.116.162.162 17:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schmidt Sting Pain Index 

message: The article's sentence "Scoville units are imprecise" is itself imprecise and should be replaced by a precise statement of what is imprecise.  The modern Scoville unit *per se* is not imprecise at all.  t is defined by 1 Scoville unit = 1 part of capsaicinoids per 15 million, and it is now determined precisely by a chemical test called high performance liquid chromatography -- and these facts appear in the article. (Except for a mild error:  the article says "1 part of capsaicin per 15 million" where it should say "capsaicinoids" in place of "capsaicin".  This should be corrected.)  
What is imprecise should be made precise:  It is mentioned that the original "organoleptic" test is subjective and therefore imprecise, but the sentence "Scoville units are imprecise" doesn't make clear what version of "Scoville units" it refers to.  And what is implied but
not stated explicitlly is that using the liquid chromatography method, what is imprecise is the assignment of a fixed number of Scoville units to a given variety of capsicum.  (And this rarely happens; in almost all such tables, one finds a *range* of Scoville units assigned to a given variety.) Daqu 15:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scoville units are imprecise ??? 

message: The way I read the definition of Scoville values in the second paragraph, a completely non-hot pepper would have a value of 1, i.e. a 1:1 dilution of the pepper has no detectable heat.  Yet in the chart of values, bell peppers are given a value of 0.  I believe this to be inconsistent.
: The value of 0 is correct: they need zero (not 1:1) dilution to become undetectably hot. --User:Taejo|대조 09:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as you add water to the chili extract, and not the opposite as was stated before. I changed it. Floss 666 (talk) 13:53, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scoville value for non-hot pepper 

message: 1. See here: http://www.nmsu.edu/~ucomm/Releases/2007/february/hottest_chile.htm Should probably be incorporated into the scoville scale somehow.
2. Also, the top picture and its caption should be removed and replaced with the new record holder, or the caption should be changed to second hottest for the Naga Jolokia.
---- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Omglazers (talk • contribs) 04:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ho-hum, the bhut jolokia is the same pepper as the naga jolokia. Please do some research before telling us what should be done.  Skopp (Talk) 15:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Hottest Pepper: Bhut Jholokia 

message: Why can't this section be included in the article? Isn't it possible to calculate SHU this way?
The resulting hotness for a mix of solutions with known volumes V and known concentrations of capsaicin C, measured in SHU, is described by the formula:
: C = \frac{C_1 V_1 + C_2 V_2}{V_1 + V_2},
or by using k as the quantity of volume between solution 1 relative to 2:
: C = \frac{k C_1 + C_2}{k + 1}.
E.g. mixing 2 parts of 10 000 SHU with 1 part of 100 000 SHU results in 40 000 SHU.
Libido 15:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Calculating the resulting SHU for mixed solutions

message: I think I read somewhere that tear gas is in the range of thirty to fifty million scovilles. Is this a fact? Can non-capsaicin chemicals be properly rated on the Scoville Scale? --Alx xlA 03:02, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I believe the Scoville Scale is essentially subjective to the human experience, it's reasonable to assume that it can be rated on the same scale.  Really, the scale doesn't measure the amount of capsaicin in the fruit (or substance, in processed varieties) it just measures heat.  The more acurate HPLC form certainly can't be used to rate tear gas, as it would not contain any capsaicin.  --Puellanivis 19:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tear Gas 

message: I'm having some trouble figuring some of this stuff out.  I grew up in New Mexico and only knew the chiles in that area as "Chiles".  It wasn't until I got to Seattle that I learned that there were different types. (Sure we knew of "Jalapenos" and "Habeneros" but those weren't included in what was meant when one said chiles in New Mexico.)
So, now I find out that the "Anaheim Chile Pepper" is the more common term for the New Mexican Chile Pepper.  The problem I'm having to reconcil, is that New Mexico Chile Peppers are typically much hotter (say 4000-5000) than Anaheim Chile Peppers, (250-500) and in particular, Anaheim Chile Peppers are described as being less hot than Poblanos.  New Mexico Chile Peppers are typically much hotter than Poblanos.  Now, while I'm aware that they are the same species, they are different genetic branches of the same tree, where New Mexico Chiles are still bred for high heat for native dishes, even if they're bred for lower heat for the consumption outside of New Mexico.
So, should this list mention "most Anaheim Chiles", and "New Mexican strains of Anaheim Chiles"?  Or should they be properly refered to as different, but point to the same thing.  --Puellanivis 19:23, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. there is no such thing as a New Mexican Strain of the Anaheim Chile. The Anaheim Chile is a strain of the New Mexico Hatch type Chile. The Wikipedia article on Ahameims even makes this point. I suggest for this reason it just say New Mexico Chile All2humanuk (talk) 08:28, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anaheim? New Mexico Chile? Peppers? 

message: There is a chill sauce called Da Bomb which as been tested to 1,500,000 by a third party lab.  Can we add this to the table?
http://www.chilliworld.com/SP6.asp?p_id=101
Tim  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.154.28.46 (talk) 10:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Da Bomb Chilli Sauce 

message: Just wonderind, what would be Black Pepper on the scale? --68.219.79.145 (talk) 20:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From Black pepper: "The spiciness of black pepper is due to the chemical piperine.", so it would be a 0 on the Scoville Scale, but something could be done to figure out where it would be on the Scoville Scale if it were Capsicum. --Puellanivis (talk) 02:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's wrong, the Scoville scale is purely organoleptic and does not care about the chemical nature of constituents, this is clearly stated in the article. Сасусlе 02:44, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read the article again: "An alternative method of quantitative analysis, known as high-performance liquid chromatography, directly measures capsaicinoids and attempts to relate the measured chemical values to the Scoville scale using a mathematical conversion factor."  While using the organoleptic can give the latter thing that I referred to (a rating if it were capsicum) but any HPLC method would fail to find anything.  Thus, the scale necessarily depends upon capsicum. --Puellanivis (talk) 05:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That only means that "alternative method" is flawed. Scoville units measure spiciness of food, not capsaicinoids content. The scale IS organoleptic, meaning if given food feels spicy, it's non-zero Scoville units, period. 83.14.232.226 (talk) 08:21, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Pure piperine (from black pepper) in itself is listed on Wikipedia at 100,000SR. 69.47.170.103 (talk) 06:21, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Pepper 

message: SHU Conversion Chart
How much sugar water is needed to neutralize one part of capsaicin, or until the pungency has dissippated?
For example, does it take one part water and one part sugar to equal one sugar water unit necessary to determine the Pungency ratio and then,
How much liquid volume does one use to measure one SHU?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacqndave (talk • contribs) 19:44, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The only reference I could find is that Mr. Scoville used Simple Syrup. It was a message-board type site though and not really worthy of being a reliable cite. The wikipedia article on syrup lists the most common ratio as 2 parts sugar to 1 part water.  CredoFromStart  talk 20:13, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  SHU Conversion Chart 

message: This article talk page was automatically added with  banner as it falls under :Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:FOOD|WikiProject Food and drink]] Tagging

message: "855,000-1,050,000 	Naga Jolokia [7][8][9], Dr Pepper [10]"
Somehow I doubt the validity of Dr. Pepper being that high on the scale, or even at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gisforgenocide (talk • contribs) 02:05, 10 September 2008
Dr Pepper at 855,000-1,050,000 SHU? I think someone's pulling our leg, or else there's a cultivar that someone called 'Dr Pepper' as a joke. -Megan in Texas 2602:306:CD93:1700:150D:4C53:B297:D794 (talk) 00:15, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Dr. Pepper on the scale?

message: I don't have an account here, nor am I familiar with editing, but someone should fix this.  When pepper spray manufactures say their pepper spray is 2 million SHU (sabre red) or 5.3 million SHU (fox) they mean the actual Oleoresin Capsicum solution they use to make the pepper spray.  This solution is diluted by solvents and propellents.  To find the actual SHU for the spray, it must be multiplied by the OC Percentage.   Fox labs has a 2% solution in their 5.3 million meaning the stuff that comes out of the nozzle is 106,000 SHU.  Sabre Red has a 10% solution so it's 200,000 SHU out of the nozzle. 
I'm not sure what we should say the range is; Some pepper spray brands go as low as 32,000 SHU at the nozzle.  Realistically though, what police use is around 100,000- 200,000 SHU.  The numbers need to be changed, that citation should be changed, and the level in the chart should be bumped down to the proper position.  
Citations
-2007 Sabre Red Law Enforcement Catalog
http://www.sabrered.com/PDFs/2007-Law-Enforcement-Defense-Catalog-Sabre-Red.pdf (some may argue that this could be biased, so i'll give more)
-http://www.reliapon.com/shu.htm  (This comes from another pepper spray maker, but their numbers match those given by their competition.)
-http://www.blissfulweb.com/family-home/article4715.htm (that's an independent article but i don't know where it originally came from, it's reproduced on many pages.
Maybe you guys would like to find more things that support what I'm saying, but I'm pretty sure the page is in error.
65.32.154.189 (talk) 06:26, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Note the propellant and solvent are usually quite volatile, while the active substance "sticks". Of course the mix of the three ("at muzzle exit") will be lower on the scale, but seconds after it sticks to the skin only the active substance remains and SHU goes up right to the stated value. Of course less of the substance by mass remains on the sprayed surface, so measuring SHU in relation to weight change of the can, as opposed to weight change of the sprayed surface will give the low result. 83.14.232.226 (talk) 08:40, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Did you measure the amount of material you tasted? I assure you a can full of pepper spray will be more spicy than a small pinch of Mad Dog's Revenge. (the scale relates 1 unit of substance per x units of water, meaning 2 units of 100SCU substance diluted in 2 units of water will feel just as hot as 1 unit of 200SCU substance diluted in the same 2 units of water. And the amount of water (saliva) in your mouth is constant.) 83.14.232.226 (talk) 08:40, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pepper Spray 

message: Hi. I wrote a subsection about two peppers a few days ago, which according to a seed company is even stronger than the strongest one on the Scoville scale, the Naga Jolokia. I referred to a web page hosted by the company; the section I added was removed because of claimed advertizing, and I got a warning. I still think the section should be in the article though; even if it is in a modified shape. If someone else agrees with me, that one can gladly put it back; myself I'm not going to put it there again. --Kri (talk) 19:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What I mean is this: Nothing is mentioned of the possible flaws of the rating system. A higher Scoville rating is automatically considered a hotter chilli; however, this is not for sure. As a matter of fact, the scale only measures the concentration of heat-producing chemicals, who have said there are no other factors which affect the heat fo a chilli? This site I reffered to before, claims that there are two even stronger peppers than the Naga Jolokia. Who knows? I have never tasted these. I only think it is fair to have opinions from both sides in an article. --Kri (talk) 07:33, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: We need scientific studies, not vague commercial claims from your company. Come back when you have a published paper. ► RATEL ◄ 07:58, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What? I don't have a company, don't be ridiculus. I said the section can be brought back in a modified shape; that means that the "advertizing" can be removed. --Kri (talk) 08:41, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Ok, I see that you cannot use the source as a reference, but I don't think that you have to defend Ratel in his accusations that I would be representing any company. However, what I mean is not that the heat wouldn't be dependent upon the Scoville rating (which it clearly is), but that maybe it wouldn't be dependent upon the Scoville rating only, which the article seems to claim. That, I guess would not be scientifically validated. But you know what, I think this discussion has gone a little bit to long, you can do what you want with the article; for me it doesn't matter. --Kri (talk) 22:07, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peppers claimed to be even stronger than the Naga Jolokia (in spite of their Scoville rating) 

message: I believe many people own a plant from a local gardening store that is called something like 'an ornamental hybrid' or 'super chili' or some such thing. Could one of you experts not figure out how to write an article on this cultivar? I believe that it is a hybrid or mutant cayenne.--137.186.217.73 (talk) 19:50, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Chili 

message: The scale shown here shows chipotles as hotten than jalapenos. Given that chipotles are just smoked jalapenos can someone explain this?
The thought that drying might concentrate them occurs to me but rating dried vs fresh on the same scale without accounting for that would seem bad methodology, as any pepper could be dried, and chipotles are often sold in a can, rehydrated (in a sauce). --Ericjs (talk) 03:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chipotle hotter than jalapeno? 

message: Before me sits the May 2007 issue of National Geographic, in which the tabasco pepper is listed having an "average" value of 190,524 SHUs.  The magazine cites the Chili Pepper Institute of New Mexico State University as a reference. LizShort (talk) 17:23, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tabasco SHU rating wrong? 

message: Should "Dave's Insanity Sauce" and Tobasco sauce be on the provided scoville scale?  Though it may have some history in the world of hot sauce, it seems that these inclusions of branded products are out of place in an article which is description of a scientific unit of measurement.  It would be better placed on a page reserved for "World's Hottest Hot Sauces".  - Evan Rappaport July 11 2010  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.227.60 (talk) 16:03, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dave's Insanity Sauce on scale 

message: Would be interesting to know the scoville rating of more non-chili ingredients like sichuan peppercorns, and more varieties from the subcontinent like the kashmiri chili.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.105.210.209 (talk) 19:19, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  sichuan peppercorns & kashmiri peppers 

message: Oh wow.  Here's an article on the mile.  Let's list distances between all the world's cities, after all, that's measured in miles. 
  
Please don't list all the world's chile peppers or various hot sauces here.  The article is about the Scoville scale and not a sales catalog for chile heads. The numbers have *huge* error bars on them (compared to measurements in, oh, say, Hertz or metres), and any two random peppers grown at different times and different places will have great differences in the Scoville numbers, let alone the differences *betweeen the laboratories themselves*. Think of this before you list the merciless  Pepper of Quetzalacatenango, grown deep in the forest primeval by the inmates of a Guatemalan insane asylum. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:28, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Article on topic

message: This article focuses on chilli peppers.  Surely the piquance of curries could just as well be measured in this way?  After all, you could just as well dilute a curry sauce as you could a pepper extract.  (Indeed, the documentation on Template:Infobox pepper states that it can be used for "heat of chillies, curries, or anything that calls for a rating on the Scoville scale".)
Though I'm not sure that we can meaningfully list Scoville ratings for different kinds of curry, since recipes vary.  But it would still be meaningful in the context of specific curry recipes, so it would make sense to at least mention it here.  Or is there some other standard way in which the hotness of curries is measured? — Smjg (talk) 20:27, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your evidence of this? — Smjg (talk) 23:46, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about curries? 

message: The article doesn't mention whether, when establishing the Scoville value for a pepper, you take 1 pepper or a specific mass of peppers. If it's the former, then 10 jalapenos have 10 times the Scoville value of one jalapeno. Could someone clarify?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phthalo123 (talk • contribs) 17:29, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scoville value dependent on quantity? 

message: : "the hottest chiles, such as habaneros, have a rating of 300,000 or more"
Dry or wet? -- Toytoy 00:23, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I can tell, SHU is defined per unit of dry weight. I can't access the original paper by Scoville, but I found two papers describing the analysis as such; I updated the article accordingly. It is a convenient definition in that it does not change the SHU rating of a chili if it is dried intentionally or unintentionally. It also means that it makes little sense to compare SHU ratings of chili peppers against that of chili sauce or pepper spray without stating the water content. Han-Kwang (t) 15:34, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dry or wet? 

message: Aji dulce, also called Venezuela, were listed next to bell peppers as having no significant heat. I removed it, due to uncertainty of the correct value, and doubt that it would be insignificant. I found one vague corroborating reference (snippet view shows "Aji Dulce...no heat"), and two references contradict it, [books.google.com/books?id=m4vvs87XiucC&pg=PA90 one] listing it as 2,500-5,000, the other as 200,000-350,0000. Additionally, and a reference that described it as a mildly pungent cultivar of Capsicum chinense with high levels of capsinoid, based on a 2010 study by Tanaka et al. (Tanaka's paper shows up in Google Scholar, but not as free to read; "Scoville" doesn't seem to occur in the paper). Agyle (talk) 21:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aji dulce SHU 

message: From the current page, "Increasing concentrations of the extracted capsinoids are given to a panel of five trained tasters, until a majority (at least three) can detect the heat in a dilution." That doesn't fit with the scale, or with what I'm reading on other sites. http://www.chilipepper.com/Information/ScovilleScale/tabid/59/Default.aspx
The amount of capsinoids needs to remain fixed, as the amount of water dilution increased. The panel votes when the heat is NOT detectable. This accounts for the very low number of dilutions for sweet peppers and the very high dilutions needed for spicy peppers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Will.in.Eugene (talk • contribs) 01:52, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scoville Method reversed? 

message: The sources don't say that. Where do we get those figures? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:07, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  6,400,000 max 

message: I have to be skeptical of the way the table is formatted, with the Carolina Reaper (which I've heard cited in many places as the hottest pepper) in its own category at 2,200,000 SHU, while the next tier down goes up to 2,199,999.  All of the other tiers are rounded off to round numbers, many of them even overlapping the range represented by other tiers.  The article cited for the 2.2 million SHU figure mentions that that was the result for the hottest individual Carolina Reaper pepper tested.  Add to that the fact that the Wikipedia article for the Carolina Reaper cites an average of 1,569,300 SHU for the cultivar, and it falls squarely in the range defined by the lower tier.  98.235.202.85 (talk) 22:45, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: the columns might be relabeled. After "Scoville Heat units" add (million units), so top one is 2.2. Carolina reaper should be added (hottest single pepper). Find the AP article and check source there, or use that article if seems reliable and authoritative.
A story by the Associated Press says the record is for the hottest batch of Currie's peppers tested, code named HP22B, which stands for "Higher Power, Pot No. 22, Plant B." The hottest individual Carolina Reaper came in at 2.2 million Scoville heat units. juanTamad 01:42, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

text: I think you might have misunderstood my point.  I didn't take issue with the way the columns were labeled, but with the way the Carolina Reaper was showcased.  It was given its own tier even though the record is for the hottest individual pepper in the cultivar, not the average heat of the cultivar.  There was a single Carolina Reaper pepper that tested at 2.2 million SHU, but their average is 1,569,300.  That means there are individual peppers of other varieties that are indeed hotter than the average Carolina Reaper specimen.  The table is deliberately set up to make it look as if none of the other peppers are even close enough to be in the same tier.  98.235.202.85 (talk) 13:16, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

text: I just took a look at the pages for the previous record holders for hottest pepper, and those all have prominent mention (sometimes more than once in a very short article) of the Carolina Reaper.  It sounds like someone really likes promoting this cultivar.  98.235.202.85 (talk) 13:26, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree, the table should probably just include broad categories, with footnotes or something maybe for individual pepper varieties or cultivars, if notable. Looks there might be marketing going on. Maybe the whole thing needs a review of the sourcing. juanTamad 13:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carolina Reaper vs. peppers in the next tier down 

message: It is a lot easier to read 16 million than it is to read 16,000,000 etc. 124.176.161.161 (talk) 13:45, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  The numbers may need to be converted further, so you are not looking at such a large number with so many zero's 

message: Jalapeño is listed in both 1,000-4,000 and 3,500-10,000.  Which is it?  And why does the first range go to 4,000 and the next one start at 3,500? Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 14:01, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is Jalapeño on two Scoville levels? 

message: === Hottest pepper ===
"The HP56 Death Strain is currently the highest rated pepper in the world (SHU)."
The chart: "The Carolina Reaper is the hottest pepper in the world (SHU)." —User 000 name 19:02, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Scoville scale is organoleptic - detection treshold of spiciness in diluted substance. Obviously, measurement of this is cumbersome - requires a statistically significant number of participants to perform multiple tastings of progressively more or less diluted substance, and then report their discoveries. A common simplified method to obtain the SHU without requiring that is to measure the capsaicin content - and obviously this method is flawed because it misses spiciness from any other sources than capsaicin, or influence of other substances that - while not spicy themselves - reduce or increase spiciness of the base substance. It provides a good estimate of the value in case of products where the dominating source of spiciness is capsaicin, but it fails utterly in case of others. 83.14.232.226 (talk) 10:59, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictions to be fixed 

message: "The HP56 Death Strain is currently the highest rated pepper in the world (SHU)."
The chart: "The Carolina Reaper is the hottest pepper in the world (SHU)." —User 000 name 19:02, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hottest pepper 

message: If the scoville scale is a measure of capsaicin concentration, then how can a chemical rank higher on the scoville scale than pure capsaicin? —User 000 name 19:06, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Scoville scale is organoleptic - detection treshold of spiciness in diluted substance. Obviously, measurement of this is cumbersome - requires a statistically significant number of participants to perform multiple tastings of progressively more or less diluted substance, and then report their discoveries. A common simplified method to obtain the SHU without requiring that is to measure the capsaicin content - and obviously this method is flawed because it misses spiciness from any other sources than capsaicin, or influence of other substances that - while not spicy themselves - reduce or increase spiciness of the base substance. It provides a good estimate of the value in case of products where the dominating source of spiciness is capsaicin, but it fails utterly in case of others. 83.14.232.226 (talk) 10:59, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chemicals 

message: It is clearly stated in the section "Scoville organoleptic test" that one SHU unit is related to the number of times the capsinoids solution must be diluted for testers to agree that there is no detectable heat in the sample. 
Confusingly the paragraph ends with:
The heat level is based on this dilution, rated in multiples of 100 SHU.[4] 
What does this mean? Can we clearly define what 1 SHU is and what the heat level is?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andyofmelbourne (talk • contribs) 10:01, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  No precise definition of the SHU unit 

message: Whevever I look for peppers I see things listed as STU on the back of the label.. Like what the heck is STU? Ive head of SHU obviously but all these products keep calling it STU? is it the same measurement? I mean I cant find anywhere online what the heck STU is and when I look at it, it seems to draw me back to the scoville scale... eh so much inconsistency.. take a look at the back at some spring valley Cayenne 40,000 STU...  why dose it not say SHU? Then I look up the articles related to this and the pepper and its SHU... errr.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:204:D403:D96B:25B7:544D:3665:EA7B (talk) 05:48, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is is really SHU? OR STU? 

message: I know that Tears of Zephos has a highest rating but I'm not sure about this giving suffering from pain on my tongue. Apollo C. Quiboloy fans (talk) 04:20, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: TTG Spice Game

message: It's ridiculous to not include a good amount of examples for the scoville scale. It's completely relevant to the article. It's not as if the article is very large. Wikipedia is supposed to be a database of information, a place where people go to know new things. Alex of Canada (talk) 02:37, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  I didn't know wikipedia is about discluding information you don't like 

message: How is a Scoville measurement actually done today? The definition of the scale seems to say it's the dilution at which a panel of tasters agrees they can detect spicy heat.  This is different from someone globbing a sample in his mouth and saying "That tastes like 13,571 units". I would imagine no-one this century has convened a panel of tasters to use the dilution method when HPLC is readily available. But would that be correct? --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:49, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  There's obvious controversy and "inexact science" involved because one part of the scale is quantitative (HPLC or content of capsaicinoids), while another part is subjective based on experienced testers evaluating the 5 sensations, as in the organoleptic section you just removed (I feel it should remain, as the 2017 Guzman study impresses as the best integrated study available). In WP:SCIRS stated here, "Make readers aware of legitimate uncertainty or controversy within the particular field of study. A well-referenced article will point to specific journal articles or specific theories proposed by specific researchers. Wikipedia neither accepts nor rejects any particular position - describe any disputes and their place in the scientific discourse, but do not engage in them. Many values, such as the masses of transuranian elements or the isotopic composition of the solar system, have an associated uncertainty, and even up-to-date highly reliable sources may report slightly different values." Perhaps we can delineate the controversy and absence of SHU clarity better, but the 5-point sensation scale of Guzman and Bosland is a high-quality discussion worth keeping. --Zefr (talk) 20:07, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Articles are about their subjects. This article is about the Scoville scale, not "what eating spicy food feels like". The 5 points in the Guzman article seem not about Scoville heat units but a more general investigation of the sensations of eating spicy food.  This seems out of place for this article. We don't talk about the sensations of a long distance runner in the article about "metre", as a far-fetched example. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:31, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Dilution or guessing or chromatography?

message: I am removing the incorrect primary source, Guzmán and Bosland (2017). These fools cite a paper which, if you actually read it, gives a different number. Heaviside glow (talk) 20:36, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Better to discuss first. What's the problem? --Zefr (talk) 21:29, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

text: If you're referring to the number "15 or 16" quoted in the article, the Guzman paper cites 16 but other papers cite 15. I don't see anything substantially wrong with the Guzman paper and it's published in a reputable journal with an impact factor of 3.5 and h-index of 120. Aside from being a primary source, please substantiate your problem with the paper. Jamgoodman (talk) 22:50, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: If a source can't tell the difference between 15 and 16 in the source they cite, then everything they say about other papers is also suspect. Furthermore, there is not one fact in the article that was supported by the Garbage and Baloney (2017) source, making it a case of WP:Spam#Citation spam. Heaviside glow (talk) 19:03, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't make the edit until a decision is finalised; we've already discussed this. I agree it's suspect that they appear to be misquoting the paper they're citing but Bosland wrote **both** papers. You'd have thought they would know which number they used. But which should take precedence? How do we know that one isn't a typo or that the number was changed after the publication of the 1995 paper? It's not citation spam since **both** references are equally valid. I believe both the numbers 15 and 16 should stay until a more reputable, and 3rd party, source is found claiming one of the two. It would be imprudent to simply ignore one of the numbers without proper justification. Please update us when you've found such a source. Jamgoodman (talk) 19:30, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

text:  I have found where the 15/16 values come from. (Rafael Rocha-Herrera 1997 p. 26) reviews the early evaluations of the level for threshold detection of pure capsaicin, in terms of ppm dilution. (Suzuki et al 1957) finds 15 ppm, (Todd 1958) finds 17 ppm and an "anonymous author" in (Krajewska and Powers 1988) even finds 30 ppm. The differences can be explained by simple biological variability and the adoption of a particular value, be it 15, 16 or 17, will be a matter of convention. If you cannot prove what the convention is, all values should stay in the article; it is not appropriate to baselessly assume that one value is more correct. The sources and quoted values 15 ppm and 17 ppm are also cited in the introduction to (Todd Bensinger and Biftu 1977). Unfortunately, neither the Suzuki paper, "A new method for the determination of pungency in red pepper.", nor the (Todd 1958) paper, "Detection of foreign pungent compounds. Oleoresin, capsicum. ground capsicum and chili spices.", appear to have publicly available copies. But regardless, they are well cited in the literature. Jamgoodman (talk) 20:19, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

text:  As far as I can see, the sources I've listed show a consensus for the threshold of 15-17, if not the convention used to calculate Scoville units. But regardless, the choice of 15 or 16 is effectively redundant since Scoville units have a low precision. I'll draft an edit shortly. If anyone has any qualms with it, please address them within the next few days or I'll consider the matter resolved. Jamgoodman (talk) 14:36, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: What should take precedence is the ASTA guide, but it is not freely available on the internet. The matter cannot be resolved by your fiat statement, per WP:OWNER. You are not the owner of the page nor its content, and if you attempt to bully people further I will take the dispute higher. Heaviside glow (talk) 20:22, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Just for the record, Jamgoodman has been thorough, fair-minded, and correct in interpreting the available sources. There has been no bullying. The Guzman article is a high standard and certainly should stand as one of the article's most important references. --Zefr (talk) 22:20, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

text:  Please do take the matter higher; if you think I'm attempting to bully anyone, then quite frankly, I'm embarrassed for you. I've acted nothing but cordially and if you can't see that, it's hardly my problem. I've shown papers that verify the facts. If you can show us the ASTA guide then by all means, do so. Jamgoodman (talk) 22:24, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Garbage in, garbage out 

message: Please note that this article receives just under 2 million pageviews a year, so it behooves editors to make sure that the page is correct. Heaviside glow (talk) 19:18, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pageviews 

message: The article contradicts itself. In some places, it says that it applies only to capsaicin spiciness from hot chilis (measured either organoleptically or analytically). In other places, it says or implies that it applies to other kinds of spiciness, such as that from black pepper (piperine), mustard, Szechuan pepper, horseradish, ginger (shogaol), etc. In addition, some of the article about those foods include Scoville ratings. Can we clarify this? --Macrakis (talk) 20:35, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Application to other spices

message: Add page to the Scales category.  
The Pyruvate scale is listed in the Scales Category page, but the Scoville Scale is not. Zhynn (talk) 17:58, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: DigitalChutney (talk) 20:50, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2021 

message: I miss the concrete procedure. Would it work like this?
Step 1, Reference:
Prepare an initial solution "R1" of pure capsaicin of mass m1 (e.g. 10 g) in 96% ethanol and dilute to volume V1 (e.g. 250 ml) in a volumetric flask.
Make dilutions with sugarwater:
25 ml of R1 diluted to 250 ml will give you R10, a 10x dilution of R1.
25 ml of R10 diluted to 250 ml will give you R100, a 10x dilution of R10.
50 ml of R100 diluted to 100 ml will give you R200, a 2x dilution of R100.
SI suffix terminology: R2500=R2.5k, R50,000,000=R50M
Starting with higher dilutions, work to lower dilutions till your board of human sensors disagrees, possibly going back to lower dilutions if your sensors agree it's spicy. That final dilution, e.g. R20M is 16 MSCO (or whatever you want pure capsaicin to be).
Step 2, Sample:
Do a soxhlet extraction of m1 (air?) dried chili powder/flakes (with seeds?), dilute to V1 and find the final solution as in step 1. If your final reference dilution is R20M and your final sample dilution is S10M, then your sample has 16M/20M*10M=8MSCO.
HPLC may be more accurate for capsaicin, but only humann can tell how hot other capsaicinoids and other substances are.
Darsie42 (talk) 11:41, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:SCIRS source? Zefr (talk) 17:19, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Practical procedure 

message: I've heard a rumor about an artificial pepper that is around 3,000,000 scoville units 108.228.172.26 (talk) 05:51, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @108.228.172.26 "artificial"? 2402:9D80:386:A915:0:0:368D:A7FF (talk) 04:29, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Hottest Pepper 

message: what do you think? Lena Key (talk) 18:01, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely not. Trivia sectins are not needed, and pop culture sectinos become unhelpful listings of random unmotivated observations with no encyclopediac value. --Wtshymanski (talk) 03:20, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs an "In Popular Culture" section