Talk:Lithotomy

message: Hey all,
This article says that lithotomy was named for Ammonius Lithotomos. This makes no sense at all: the word "lithotomos" is directly derived from the Greek roots "lith-" for stone and "tom-" for cut. If anything, it would seem that Lithotomos' name must instead be derived from his most famous innovation, as the Roman general Scipio was named "Africanus" for his military victory over Carthage. Does anyone else see what I mean?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.207.153 (talk) 20:53, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: note

message: The source cited does not say that he invented the perineal cystolithotomy. The source has problems but lets start with reading and summarizing it accuratly. 
::In 1000, Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (Abulcasis), in his Al-Tasrif, described a more successful extraction of bladder and kidney stones from the urinary bladder using a new instrument he invented—a lithotomy scalpel with two sharp cutting edges—and a new technique he invented—perineal cystolithotomy—which allowed him to crush a large stone inside the bladder, "enabling its piecemeal removal." This innovation was important to the development of bladder stone surgery as it decreased the death rates previously caused by earlier attempts at this operation. Failed verification|1)This is not an accurate summary of the source. 2) the commentary in the source is contradicted by the sources it cites see  also |date=May 2011}}
see the other sources as well J8079s (talk) 04:40, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you expand on the first point. For the second one, it doesn't look like the 2 references you listed were cited by the article in the first place. Al-Andalusi (talk) 17:07, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: 4. Spink MS, Lewis IL. Albucassis on surgery and instruments (a definitive edition of the Arabic text with English translation and commentary). London (UK): Wellcome Institute of the History of Medicine; 1973. p. VII-XV, 1-7, 280-283, 348-352,410-423. This is the source listed above (different issue same book)  For the word for word (see page 414 in the foot notes)  Be back in a minute on point 1 J8079s (talk) 20:11, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: point 1 what the source says: "That innovation in the technique of perineal cystolithotomy, introduced by Alzahrawi, was of considerable practical anatomical significance." elsewhere same source (yours) His original contributions remarkably improved the technique of cystolithotomy and reduced its risks. this quote should be neutralized (the part about the risk) by adding "author says" as there is not enough in the text to support it.
a quick summary: "cystolithotomy" (breaking the stone to remove it) is recorded by Celsius who credits Ammonious  Albucassis has new techniques, using "forceps" to break the stone and drilling stones impacted in the urethra. For contested edits its always  true that "this source says foo" as opposed to just saying "Foo" read carefuly J8079s (talk) 21:35, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  FV  

message: chapter 1 and just brief mention on page 671"ammonious" 
 I am just dumping these here for now J8079s (talk) 16:44, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  other sources 

message: In this article, the caption to the picture of Jan de Doot states that he is showing a kidney stone he reportedly removed himself. However, the exact same picture is used in the 'bladder stone' article, where the caption states that he is showing a bladder stone he removed himself.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.159.214.40 (talk) 01:43, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portrait of Jan de Doot - used for 'kidney stone' removed and 'bladder stone' removed