Talk:Romanian revolution/Archive 2

message: I am not so much necessarily saying that this is false, as that recent information that may or may not be true, and is certainly not obviously true, was added by User:Ratza without decent citation. 
# Is there documentation of the involvement of (presumably Romanian Orthodox) "religious romanian students" in the initial protests on behalf of László Tőkés? If true, this is fascinating, but I've never heard it before and would like to see documentation.
# The entire paragraph beginning "A group of conspiring generals in Securitate used the opportunity to launch a coup in Bucharest. The coup, prepared since 1982..." strikes me merely as one of dozens, if not hundreds, of unprovable theories of what was going on behind the scenes that week. It is here without even citation of who claims this. As I suggested before on Talk:Nicolae Ceausescu, I believe theories like this belong in a separate article with one link from here, much as (for example) 9/11 domestic conspiracy theory gets a separate article.
#"the book of Col. Dumitru Burlan" without even the name of the book is hardly a citation.
I could go on, but what is needed here is attention from a solid scholar who knows this history a lot better than I do. I have no idea what parts of the recent additions are true, what are rumors, how seriously to take the stories from Lumea Magazin, etc., so I am just flagging this. If no one else takes this up, I guess I will start doing some serious research, but I am at a liability because my Romanian-language skills are merely decent, not expert; similarly my knowledge of this history. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:26, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)
I can see why the accuracy of this article is disputed. The problem is that nobody (except the presumed) conspirators knows quite what happened and how it was planned. I think the article at present concentrates too much on the details of events in Bucharest and not enough on the theories about what lay behind it. Was there a conspiracy or not? Not only in Romania, but also in the West, nearly everybody who knows even a little about the Romanian 'revolution' thinks there was a conspiracy and that Iliescu was involved in it. Whether the conspiracy had been planned since 1982 is, I think, more controversial.
Incidentally, I'd dispute the statement that Iliescu became the first democratically elected president of Romania in 1990. The elections were rigged. It was precisely to stop the student protests about the hijacking of the 'revolution' that Iliescu called in the miners to break up the protests. Simon d 02:34, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed

message: Currently in the article: "His miscomprehension of the events and incapacity to handle the situation were further demonstrated when he promised to raise the salaries of workers by 100 Lei (about 4 US dollars at the time) and praised the achievements of the Socialist Revolution when a social revolution was taking shape right in front of him." Besides what seems to me to be excessive POV in the first phrase (which I leave it to someone else to fix), this is unclear. 100 lei per month? 100 lei per year? -- Jmabel | Talk 20:45, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
The part that follow "and praised the..." could be interpreted. But the story of 100 lei is true. In Romania the wages were and still are considered in per month. So, Ceausescu promised a 100 lei raise (at an average wage of 3000 or so) and also a raise of child allocation from 100 lei to 110 lei. He idea that the pissed off people would go home happy with a few % raise just enraged the people. And is wasn't the problem of money per se, but the fact that you couldn't find the products.MihaiC 13:04, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: oc, so what Ceausescu said, when he saw the people were not applauding as expected was basically "the monthly salary will be increased by 100 lei, and kept repeating (paraphrase/quote from memory): "we achieved high levels of development, the working class in romania has did great things, and will stand united defending the ideals of the socialist revolution". he was captured, and on his chair he recited from the "Internationala" socialist song. he was sentenced to death, and recited again from the "Socialist Anthem"(Internationala Socialista" -- Criztu 21:16, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  100 lei