Talk:Kerista

message: The term "bro" is linked to a disambiguation page for the term, and none of the links there seem to fit in this context. Does anyone know what it's supposed to mean here?
'Bro Jud' was John Presmont's Keristan name. All Kerista members received theatrical names at the time they joined, usually from a ouija-like 'alphabet board'. The Keristan names were usually two words, the main word usually three letters. Bro is of course short for brother. I believe Jud's name originated from the old Keristan Tribe from the 60's. In the 50's in New York, John Presmont had been nicknamed 'King John', for his demeanor at bohemian gatherings & swinging parties.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 133.40.145.158 (talk) 02:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: What does "bro" mean?

message: Objections about content should be in Talk, not the main page. Thanks.
*I removed the following becuase it was indeed editorializing:
**"For the record, most of the following information is derived from articles and periodicals by third parties, which is like having your neighbor explaining what happened in your bedroom last night."
*I removed all references to specific living people. Since no living individual is referenced by name in the article, I also removed the tag objecting to content about living persons. Here are the references I removed:
**"...drawn by Even Eve (also known as Eve Furchgott, the daughter of the Nobel Prize winner Robert Furchgott), one of the earliest and core members."
**"One of the children raised in the commune recently graduated from medical school and is now working in Haiti. A former member of the commune was nominated for an Emmy in 2006."
* I removed the phrase "(called 'responsible non-monogamy')". I have never seen a publication specifically refer to polyfidelity as 'responsible non-monogamy.' I am fine with this phrese going back in the article...as long as a reference is given that shows someone referring to polyfidelity as responsible non-monogamy.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.214.42.64 (talk) 17:29, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Objections to Content (let's slow it down) 

message: The Keristans did practice group marriage.  
* The Best Friend Identity Clusters (BFICs) meet the definition of group marriages proposed by relationship resarchers (such as Joan and Larry Constantine in their book Group Marriage; see also studies by James Ramey and by Sheldon Salsberg). Group marriages are usually defined as a group of three or more adults who agree they are married or have a commitment functionally equivalent to marriage. The BFICs were commitments functionally equivalent to marriage because they were joined with the intention of lifelong commitment and considered themselves families:
**"LIL: Right. The family structure that we have is called polyfidelity, and as the word sounds, it's fidelity to a group of people in family units. Now, of the 15 adults who are in our community, we are not all in the same family, so we are not all sleeping together. There's one family of eight adults, another of three, another of two, and there are two individuals who are not members of any family." http://www.kerista.com/kerdocs/donahue.html
**"BFIC - Short for 'Best Friend Identity Cluster', the formal name of a Keristan family. A BFIC (pronounced 'bee-fick') starts with a group originator and grows to a maximum of 36 adults. Each member joins the group with a current intention of lifetime involvement and a nonpreferential feeling of deep affection for all other members." http://www.kerista.com/kerdocs/glossary.html 
* The word "polyfidelity", which the Keristans coined, is commonly regarded as a form of group marriage in the polyamory community. For example:
**"Kerista advocated for a highly structured form of group marriage among sexually closed groups, and invented the term 'polyfidelity' for this arrangement." http://www.lovemore.com/history.php
**"Polyfidelity. A form of polyamory involving a closed group marriage (or marriage-like relationship), in which all adult members are considered primary to each other. As coined by Kerista community (1971-1991), this also included the expectation that all adults of compatible sexual orientations would be sexual with each other, but today many polyfides do not expect this." http://www.aphroweb.net/polyterms.htm see also http://ncpoly.org/PolyTerms.html
* Other Wikipedia pages refer to polyfidelity as a form of group marriage.
** "Previous to the Kerista Village experience, people would have likely called this arrangement 'complex marriage' or simply a 'group marriage'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyfidelity
** "Polyfidelity, which involves multiple romantic relationships with sexual contact restricted to specific partners in a group (which may include all members of that group) (e.g. group marriage)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory
* Other published sources describe polifidelity as group marriages. For example:
**"Nearing (1992) discussed polyfidelity (closed group marriage)." http://www.ejhs.org/volume8/cook2.htm
**The book The 60s communes: hippies and beyond by Timothy Miller refers to polifidelity as group marriages (see page 135) http://books.google.com/books?id=wVLu4F1aOgcC&pg=PA135&lpg=PA135&dq=keristan+Group+marriage&source=bl&ots=FBb3sqjDFg&sig=-CtApf9OBG3t_2CL4ElvEP03Ni8&hl=en&ei=z7u6TMSYDI6nngf-z_nXDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=keristan%20Group%20marriage&f=false
** The book America's Alternative Religions by Timothy Miller (see page 425) http://books.google.com/books?id=y3Mt7QlXrRwC&pg=PA425&lpg=PA425&dq=eve+furchgott+%22group+marriage%22&source=bl&ots=Q037Ac6Www&sig=4d7-8qbdTfCLUsJ4jFcBaKtsaQc&hl=en&ei=mca6TIjUDo_9ngea0uzqDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=eve%20furchgott%20%22group%20marriage%22&f=false  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.214.42.64 (talk) 10:06, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keristans and Group Marriage 

message: The science-fiction novelist Robert A. Heinlein mentioned Kerista in a letter to his agent Lurton Blassingame regarding popular reaction to his novel Stranger in a Strange Land.  Heinlein told Blassingame that Kerista had actually appropriated several terms from Stranger in a Strange Land in the letter I read; and expressed his belief that the polyamory and some other characteristics of Kerista social norms came from that novel.
I intend to refer to the letter (contained in Grumbles_from_the_Grave, Virginia Heinlein, ed). If someone can direct me to a less thoroughly edited collection of Heinlein's work, I'd appreciate it.  Science fiction writer Frederik Pohl, a friend and correspondent of Heinlein's, complained that Mrs. Heinlein had a heavy hand in editing Heinlein's letters, which may conceal some of Heinlein's thoughts on Kerista.
I solicit any comments from other editors before posting this change, pro, con or otherwise. loupgarous (talk) 10:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intent to include Robert A. Heinlein's mention of Kerista in a letter to Lurton Blassingame 

message: Hi there,
Can anyone help me find the 2 part article by Mitch Slomiak entitled "The Darker Side of Community"  I'm hearing it was originally published in a journal but I don't know which one.  Ideally, I'd love if anyone can send me the PDF but any help would be greatly appreciated!     It was in Loving More Spring and Summer '96
Thanks!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by AbleDeeDo (talk • contribs) 05:45, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The articles no longer exist on lovingmore.com, though apparently published originally in Loving More. Instead, I find them as a unified article at Kerista.com, "The Dark Side of Community: Hidden Limits to Lasting Groups" as by Nu Luv, with claimed copyright of 2015. If someone wants to note the actual original publication data, fine, but meantime I'm changing the reference. Weeb Dingle (talk) 21:22, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Desperately seeking a source referenced in this article  

message: It is misleading and sensational, as his connection to Kerista was only by blood. He never espoused or in any way participated in Kerista. - kip  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.171.73.73 (talk) 02:14, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please leave Robert Furchgott off this page 

message: The FDA approved the first commercial test to detect HIV-antibodies in March 1985, Timeline_of_HIV/AIDS. With rampant rumors in the SF gay community of a debilitating 'gay-disease', and the widely-publicized death of Rock Hudson from AIDS-related illness in October 1985, Keristans began to discuss the need for STD testing as commune policy. Another important factor was a male member who joined the Purple Submarine who had experiences with an at-risk partner in his past. I was not tested for anything before joining Kerista in the summer of 1984. However, after the test became available in SF clinics, all Keristans were tested, and all prospective members were required to pass an HIV test before joining, beginning in 1986. I can find no published reference to this policy. Nonetheless, in SF in the later 80's - hysteria and fear about HIV/AIDS was a daily reality. -kip
:You ought to read your own sources: This retrovirus would be called by several names … before being named HIV in 1986.
:(Also note it wasn't until mid-1982 that "AIDS" was proposed to replace "GRID." The terms have hardly been with us sincethe dawn of Time.)
:Per HIV testing, realize that "FDA approval" and commercial availability are often separated by YEARS. And its initial application was almost entirely to test blood products and donated blood.
:This is Wikipedia, so I can find no published reference to this policy means you CANNOT claim it as fact here — doing so pretty much DEFINES original research. Weeb Dingle (talk) 17:12, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: HIV/AIDS Testing in Kerista

message: I've flagged this for Essayism, rather than mere Refimprove.
Since the beginning of 2018 (mid-January), Kerista (with its Talk page) has become the target of "carpet-bombing" edits by a pair of WP users, signed only with ISPs.
* 128.171.73.73 - 93 edits
* 66.91.142.162 - 43 edits
The latter has been used ONLY to rework this topic, in a total of four sessions since 30 Sep 2017. It is a single-purpose account.
The former was lightly used since its 2012 origin, with a total 36 edits through 2016. After a hiatus, it was reactivated mid-August 2017, and has since made exactly one non-Kerista edit. It has become a single-purpose account.
It's an easy guess that both accounts belong to one person, so creeps up toward sock-puppetry.
The article is now stuffed full of unsupported trivia and pointless folksiness, for instance Jud Presmont doddering around his "modest Victorian." As well, it has been sanitized, such as removing the claim made in the Wired article that
:There was also a "seduction squad": attractive girls who recruited new members at parties. Men were invited to sleep with them, but only if they first joined the commune, which meant having a vasectomy.
Reference to this is buried at the end, plaintively calling it a "disputed account" yet offering no hints as to any disputer.
I might eventually weed through the changes made and determine what needs to be cut outright.
The blockquotes buried in References will have to go. Anyone who wants to preserve them should at least learn about Footnotes. Even at that, there's much too much "borrowed" from Cummings.Weeb Dingle (talk) 16:50, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  why this "article" needs major overhaul 

message: This article is in the category "Intentional Communities in New York (state)" because it was founded there in 1956. But the article says that from 1971 to its end in 1991 it was based in San Francisco, so it also belongs in the category "Intentional Communities in California".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.53.20.113 (talk) 22:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories 

message: Basic information (which anyone reading this article might expect to find here) to add to this article, in order to make it more properly encyclopedic: the etymology/origin of the word "Kerista." 173.88.246.138 (talk) 02:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  To add to article