Talk:Salvador Allende/Archive 1

message: It is not that I don't agree with the gist of the following text, but, quite simply, it is not NPOV. If anyone would care to reinsert material from it, please do it judiciously. -- Viajero 16:37, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from article body 

message: 66.101.169.187 added the line:
:The coup itself wasn't actually bloody, but during the afthermath many were killed in a campaign to exterminate Marxism.
How so not bloody? The army bombed the presidential palace... -- Viajero 10:32, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: It was actually the Air Force...Probably the anonymous user meant that the number of dead in the coup itself was much smaller that the deaths in the aftermath. In any case, usually coups are bloody, unless bloodless is specified, so probably it is unnecessary. Just an opinion.--AN 19:36, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coup not bloody!?!?! 

message: This article takes the point of view:
*Allende was democratically elected, and
*that no democratically elected leader should EVER be deposed by a coup
*that therefore any US support to overthrow Allende was "anti-democratic" and therefore BAD
Other POVs exist:
*a narrow plurality of 36% is not a mandate for socialism
*socialism ruined the economy in only 3 years' time
*Allende was plotting to take the country into a dictatorship
*the Chilean people did NOT vote for dictatorship
*that therefore Allende himself was anti-democratic and therefore BAD
I would like the article to clarify the distinction between the "US is bad" point of view and the "Allende was bad" point of view -- rather than assuming or implying that the US is bad. --Uncle Ed 15:53, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: The mention that the comunist party was in the oposition of Allende is a factual error, In fact, the comunist party was part of Allende coallition. The idea of the CIA finncing this party is really a novelty,,,,,  please show your source Milton 20:42, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Factual error

message: Just a note: This is also a POV which is Controversial on the Left. Some of my Comrades, particularly from the Chilean community are absolutely against the theory that he shot himself. I am partial on this, because I have not seen any evidence to the contrary, but perhaps it should be metioned that many do not believe this to be what happened.--Mista-X 20:15, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: His own family believes he shot himself. --Cantus 02:46, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Did Allende Shoot himself?

message: Cantus deleted this sentence of mine 3 months ago, calling it part of a "POV edit":
:Ever since, Allende has been at the focus of intense controversy over whether a Marxist-style socialist government has ever come into power via democratic processes.
I wonder two things:
*Is there anything inaccurate or biased about this sentence?
*If not, which article is the best place for it? 
I'm leaning toward 1973 coup in Chile, with "the coup" as the subject of the sentence in place of "Allende". --Uncle Ed 15:23, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: "Marxist-style" is an essentially meaningless phrase, since Marx was first and foremost a political economist, not a political leader. In addition, there are many shades of socialism, and also things that look like socialism -- or are called socialism -- but are not. For those of us with nuanced views of the matter, the question is a highly tendentious one. -- Viajero 15:58, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Marxist-style socialism and democratic processes

message: It is a common trait of English, particularly American, mispronounciations of Roman languages such as French and Spanish to put a gliding 'y' at the end of words ending with -e (or with -e+silent consonant).
Wikipedia ought better not contribute to the proliferartion of this error.
Maybe it would be the best to use a standardized phonetic alphabet, such as SAMPA, for pronounciation guides – but if not, here are a couple of non-standard pronounciation guides for the surname Allende:
* http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/92/a0209200.html
* http://www.infoplease.com/ce5/CE001508.html
* http://www.loc.gov/nls/other/sayhow.html
/Tuomas 09:38, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  mispronounciation-guides 

message: I haven't read back through all the past comments on this page - and surely, there were many - but why do all the headings about additional articles use this ridiculous "regime change" euphemism which is, by my recollection, barely three years old, if that?  It was a coup d'etat - un golpe, if you want to be more regional - so why can't it be called just that?  "Regime change" probably has poorer connotations than coup anyways after the events of the last two years. Wally 04:15, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't much care about the wording of headings in Talk.  In the article itself, there's only one "regime change" heading.  The references listed under that heading include information about the coup but also information about the developments preceding it.  I think "regime change" is more accurate because it seems more inclusive, covering the background to the coup as well as the coup itself.  The word "coup" is used in the first sentence of the article and extensively thereafter, so there's certainly no attempt to substitute a euphemism. JamesMLane 16:43, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: To me, however, the use of "regime change" at all is a poor attempt to sub in a neologism that oughn't be there, especially a neologism of such differing connotations by political view.  Frankly, given that the term was never used before the Iraq situation, and is associated closely with it (thus immediately polarizing the issue), I just think it oughn't be included at all, even in a heading.  Coup, if anything, is matter-of-fact and doesn't of necessity mean anything negative. Wally 21:43, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: Sorted on this article. Shall now go and check the others. –Hajor 21:53, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to note, on the other articles (Augusto Pinochet, at least), it seems that "See further" is all that's used.  That works for me, if there aren't objections.  Short, sweet, purposeful. Wally 06:04, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: I have added a link to a wikisource version of Allende's Last Speech .  The page was copied from wikipedia, but the translation had been listed as a possible copyright violation.
Here is daniel chernilo's web site.  It contains both the disputed text and an audio recording of the speech.  We could ask him for permission to use his translation -- though it clearly needs some work.  Or, I was wondering if some Spanish speaker here would be willing to quickly re-translate the speech for wikisource to avoid copyvio issues (it's not very long).  I'm very skeptical that there are copyvio problems with the speech itself, but the translation is another matter. Wolfman 01:10, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The following links are from the page referenced above (on the left hand side navigation bar) mp3, spanish text.  Thanks. Wolfman 23:47, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

text: A million thanks; have wikisourced it.  Wolfman 01:37, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allende's Last Speech