Talk:Israel–European Union relations

message: This article is not neutral as it only talks about one point of view. The article reads more like a commentary from a political lobby group who are in favour of accession of Israel to the EU. It is also very poorly organised. -- Andem 21:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, I think the whole article could use a rewrite. Some of it could stay, but it definitely needs a lot done. Perhaps someone who knows the subject well could try to tackle it? -- Cielomobile talk / contribs 01:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I haven't read through the article, because it lacks clear headings. Most users don't want to sift through a bunch of text to find out what they want to know. See Detroit for an example of an article with lots of nice subsections. It becomes much easier to get to what you want like that! Thanks for your contributions though, it does look better. -- Cielomobile minor7♭5 01:08, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This article is not neutral

message: This page is not organized at all. Perhaps someone who knows more about the subject could fix this? Cielomobile talk / contribs 04:42, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lack of organization

message: Ruth ds (talk) 16:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: copyright

message: Could someone expand this article, it's a good topic. The article should be organised better and cleaned up. It should also be expanded to include some of the negative implications for the European Union if Israel was to join. For example, it could put Europe in a very sticky situation with regards to conflicts in the Middle East. It could potentially increase the threat of terrorism to other European countries. It would be wondered how the several million muslims in Europe would react to Israel joining.  Israel is also in Asia, (by traditional definition) so there would be some opposed to such an expansion. What about the international implications? Currently the United States has much influence over Israel, as it's staunch supporter, what could happen when the European Union takes over this role. Then theres the positive economical impact it could have on Europe as a developed nation entering the EU. There are other arguments as Israel's culture is very much related back to Europe's.  I think these topics should be mentioned in the article. 124.179.249.174 12:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  please expand 

message: I've tagged this for a POV check - despite the recent revisions it still reads like a promotional piece telling readers how wonderful it would be if Israel were to join the EU. Cynical 08:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV check 

message: I've submitted a better organized version with some more information. Please share your reflections on it. ErezR1 22:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added a new version 

message: I'm wondering why the title is Accession of Israel to the European Union and not Israel and the European Union.  For other countries, "Accession of COUNTRY to the European Union" is only used if the country is an official candidate or acceding country, while it's "COUNTRY and the European Union" for other countries. (Stefan2 03:11, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Still, this is indeed the de facto-standard used. —Nightstallion (?) 21:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: Does anyone have any good refs on how these might interact? I imagine Europe probably doesn't want to open itself to the entire Jewish diaspora. —Ashley Y 00:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do not think it would be a problem. At present, both Ireland and Italy have "laws of return" similar to the Israeli one. Any US (or Canadian or Argentinian or whatever) citizens with an Italian or Irish heritage already have full right to become EU citizens by claiming an Irish or Italian passport. 83.190.203.57 13:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually more of a problem for Israel.  If Israel joined, then Israelis would gain free right of movement and settlement in all the EU nations (perhaps initially phased in over a few years, as is happening with the new eastern European members) BUT Israel would also have to accept that any EU citizen would be free to settle in Israel, Jewish or not.  This clashes with Israels law of return, and desire to keep Israel a Jewish majority state.  Maybe the article should discuss this more, as it's a HUGE issue.  Given that Israel is already under demographic pressure, with the prospect of it's rapidly growing Arab population possibly threatening the state's Jewish majority in the future, does Israel really want to open the doors to unrestricted, non-Jewish European immigration as well?  Are there any quotes from the Israeli politicians mentioned as supporting EU membership on how they'd handle this?  Indisciplined 15:49, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, I would also like to see a lot more discussion of this issue. —Ashley Y 20:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Note that Sephardim have some kind of right to return to Spain since the 1920s. --84.20.17.84 16:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Israeli politician Avigador Liberman want Israel to join the European Union. Liberman is very anti-arabs so if he want Israel to join the EU, then I guess that hes not afraid that muslims will come here and Israel would stop being a jewish country. Here a link http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=10954  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.180.159.170 (talk) 00:44, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Law of Return vs. European free migration

message: This isn't actually true, is it? Germany allows people whose ancestors were citizens of Germany to return, but AFAIK it does not allow the descendants of Anglo-Saxons to "return" to Angeln and Saxony. Israel, by contrast, allows all Jews to "return" to Israel, even if they can't trace a particular ancestral line to anyone who lived in the modern state or even mandate Palestine. —Ashley Y 21:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But "German ethnic origin" only goes back a few hundred years: the Volga Germans, for instance, emigrated in 1763. By contrast, Jews may "return" to Israel even if they've had no ancestral connection to the land for 2000 years. Even the Anglo-Saxon connection to Angeln and Saxony is only 1500 years old, but that doesn't make the English "volksdeutsch" in any German legal sense. —Ashley Y 18:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "One of the founding nations of the EU - Germany - has a Law of Return quite similar to Israel's" 

message: The current deletion discussion for this article suggests that most editors think the article should exist. However, several have raised concerns, including tone, POV and crystal ball speculations about hypothetical future events.
I'd like to suggest that we follow Wikipedia guidelines and remove hypothetical speculation about future Israeli membership in the EU and focus the article on historic and current relations between Israel and the EU. eliminating speculative material may also help solve some POV concerns. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 04:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the accession of Israel to the EU should be removed, basically everything in heading 2 (Possible future developments in EU-Israel relations). I have removed it. If anyone else believes it should be in here, please elaborate. My reasons (along with others) are clear.--Waqas1987 (talk) 01:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I support the section's removal. A section such as "Possible future developments" is sheer crystal ball and didn't belong. Majoreditor (talk) 02:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Addressing the concerns raised at AfD discussion

message: Although Israel is not located in Europe it is culturally considered part of Europe in every way.
Says who? 20% of Israel are Arab Palestinians. And the majority of the rest of Israeli's are the descendants of Mid Easterners and North Africans who were expelled from their countries when the state was created. The language of the Israeli Jewish community is Hebrew. That isn't a European language. Please provide a reasonable explanation if this is to remain. Tom97.106.177.128 (talk) 11:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The paragraph should be re-written and the uncited sentences should be removed. But what you did is unacceptable. you can't delete half a paragraph and leave it this way, starting in the middle of a sentence. A paragraph can't start with "it also takes part in sporting events". Ben Gershon - בן גרשון 12:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

text: The point here should be to describe that Israel sees itself as European and that Europe recognises Israel as quasi-European in many instances, which could be the base for a claim to EU membership. This section could also describe on what these conceptions are based (immigration from Europe, Zionism as originally European idea, shared values ...), and what other conceptions of what the EU should be like stand in the way of an EU membership. --141.91.136.41 (talk) 09:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  No citation 

message: "In 2013 the EU adopted a binding directive according to which the Israeli government will be required to state in any future agreements with the EU that settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are outside the state of Israel. The directive implements an earlier EU foreign ministers' declaration that "all agreements between the state of Israel and the EU must unequivocally and explicitly indicate their inapplicability to the territories occupied by Israel in 1967"". 
:What is the name and number of this directive - can't find it on the EU website Vernon White . . . Talk  15:49, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Haaretz says that the document is a Commission Guideline Vernon White . . . Talk  16:12, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The beeb says thay are guidelines http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23327014 There are mixed messages about when they come into force. Vernon White . . . Talk  16:27, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi there, the Guardian source refers to it repeatedly as a directive. Also Jewish press, AP and Jerusalem Post refer to it as a directive.  --Dailycare (talk) 18:59, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It will be worth checking the Official Journal of the EU tomorrow, where one source said it would be published. Vernon White . . . Talk  20:01, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

text: The European Council Decision of 10 Dec 2012, on which these guidelines are based is HERE Vernon White . . . Talk  20:22, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

text: The official publication of the Commission Guidelines in the Official Journal of the European Union is in Volume 56 of 19 July 2013, pages 9 to 11. The Official reference to the Guidelines is 213/c205/05. Hope the article will be amended to remove the word "Directive". Vernon White . . . Talk  14:56, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Vernon, since sources use the term "directive", why should it be removed from the article? The text says "must unequivocally and explicitly indicate their inapplicability to the territories occupied by Israel in 1967". That sounds like a directive to me, although of course it's the sources that decide, not me. Cheers, --Dailycare (talk) 19:44, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did you read the commentary on the Guidelines, linked in the first item in this conversation? The mistake is attributed to a Haaretz article, widely copied. A Directive has to be implemented in each member-state.A Directive is printed in the "L" series of the Official Journal. The Guidelines apply only to the Commission's activities funding activities of Israeli projects, within the 2014-2020 EU budget. Hope this makes sense. Vernon White . . . Talk  21:04, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yair Rosenberg describes himself as a "I'm a writer, editor, academic Jewish studies enthusiast, political junkie and film buff". The Guardian and the Associated Press are more reliable than him in characterizing an EU instrument, IMO.  For what it's worth, here are some more sources that employ the term "directive": 1, 2, 3, 4. --Dailycare (talk) 18:30, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Please read Directive (European Union) and judge whether the Commission Guidelines meet the definition of a Directive. Vernon White . . . Talk  19:23, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Rachel Shabi, the author of the Guardian article is a Journalist specialising in the Middle East, not an expert on EU procedures. She is commenting on Israeli media and political response to whatever came out of the EU Press Office. Vernon White . . . Talk  19:37, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have emailed the Guardian's "Readers' Editor" about the article, by the Guardian's Jerusalem correspondent, cited as ref 31: EU takes tougher stance on Israeli settlements (The Guardian, July 16, 2013)Vernon White . . . Talk  19:55, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  We have eight sources that describe the guidelines as a directive. By the way, what essential difference do you think exists between a directive and a binding guideline? As you're proposing to use one instead of the other, it seem that you feel there is a semantic difference. Concerning the definition of a EU directive it's not our place to decide if this is a "directive" or no. If sources describe it as one, then that's it. --Dailycare (talk) 14:57, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

text: A Directive says it is a Directive in its title. The last few clauses of a Directive say when and how member states must transpose the Directive into the law of their own country. Take this one as an example: Directive 2005/45/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 7 September 2005 on the mutual recognition of seafarers' certificates issued by the Member States and amending Directive 2001/25/EC The Guidelines that we are discussing are binding on the Commission but NOT binding on member states.Vernon White . . . Talk  16:08, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are UK based, you might try checking this problem out with the EU Commission's London Office: http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/about_us/office_in_london/index_en.htm
Vernon White . . . Talk  16:24, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

text: There's also something called Europe Direct, which may be useful http://europa.eu/europedirect/meet_us/index_en.htm Vernon White . . . Talk  16:39, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Again, if secondary sources refer to it as a directive, then as far as we're concerned it's a directive. If secondary sources referred to it as a "gwetzhog", then that's what would go in the article. It's WP:OR to dig up definitions of directives and then investigate whether the shoe fits. We have eight secondary sources that refer to it as a directive. Cheers, --Dailycare (talk) 18:16, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Gwetzhog - that's a new one. Add it to the list of imaginary truths such as Invisible Pink Unicorn and the "binding Directive" that caused everyone such alarm.Vernon White . . . Talk  19:19, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: EU Directive

message: Guidelines and commentary are here http://jfjfp.com/?p=45971Vernon White . . . Talk  20:50, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The official publication of the Commission Guidelines in the Official Journal of the European Union is in Volume 56 of 19 July 2013, pages 9 to 11. The Official reference to the Guidelines is 213/c205/05. Hope the article will be amended to remove the word "Directive". Vernon White . . . Talk  14:56, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Vernon, since sources use the term "directive", why should it be removed from the article? The text says "must unequivocally and explicitly indicate their inapplicability to the territories occupied by Israel in 1967". That sounds like a directive to me, although of course it's the sources that decide, not me. Cheers, --Dailycare (talk) 19:44, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did you read the commentary on the Guidelines, linked in the first item in this conversation? The mistake is attributed to a Haaretz article, widely copied. A Directive has to be implemented in each member-state.A Directive is printed in the "L" series of the Official Journal. The Guidelines apply only to the Commission's activities funding activities of Israeli projects, within the 2014-2020 EU budget. Hope this makes sense. Vernon White . . . Talk  21:04, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yair Rosenberg describes himself as a "I'm a writer, editor, academic Jewish studies enthusiast, political junkie and film buff". The Guardian and the Associated Press are more reliable than him in characterizing an EU instrument, IMO.  For what it's worth, here are some more sources that employ the term "directive": 1, 2, 3, 4. --Dailycare (talk) 18:30, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Please read Directive (European Union) and judge whether the Commission Guidelines meet the definition of a Directive. Vernon White . . . Talk  19:23, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Rachel Shabi, the author of the Guardian article is a Journalist specialising in the Middle East, not an expert on EU procedures. She is commenting on Israeli media and political response to whatever came out of the EU Press Office. Vernon White . . . Talk  19:37, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have emailed the Guardian's "Readers' Editor" about the article, by the Guardian's Jerusalem correspondent, cited as ref 31: EU takes tougher stance on Israeli settlements (The Guardian, July 16, 2013)Vernon White . . . Talk  19:55, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  We have eight sources that describe the guidelines as a directive. By the way, what essential difference do you think exists between a directive and a binding guideline? As you're proposing to use one instead of the other, it seem that you feel there is a semantic difference. Concerning the definition of a EU directive it's not our place to decide if this is a "directive" or no. If sources describe it as one, then that's it. --Dailycare (talk) 14:57, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

text: A Directive says it is a Directive in its title. The last few clauses of a Directive say when and how member states must transpose the Directive into the law of their own country. Take this one as an example: Directive 2005/45/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 7 September 2005 on the mutual recognition of seafarers' certificates issued by the Member States and amending Directive 2001/25/EC The Guidelines that we are discussing are binding on the Commission but NOT binding on member states.Vernon White . . . Talk  16:08, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are UK based, you might try checking this problem out with the EU Commission's London Office: http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/about_us/office_in_london/index_en.htm
Vernon White . . . Talk  16:24, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

text: There's also something called Europe Direct, which may be useful http://europa.eu/europedirect/meet_us/index_en.htm Vernon White . . . Talk  16:39, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Again, if secondary sources refer to it as a directive, then as far as we're concerned it's a directive. If secondary sources referred to it as a "gwetzhog", then that's what would go in the article. It's WP:OR to dig up definitions of directives and then investigate whether the shoe fits. We have eight secondary sources that refer to it as a directive. Cheers, --Dailycare (talk) 18:16, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Gwetzhog - that's a new one. Add it to the list of imaginary truths such as Invisible Pink Unicorn and the "binding Directive" that caused everyone such alarm.Vernon White . . . Talk  19:19, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Not an earthquake

message: My McAffee site advisor doesn't like this link: "In late 2009 and 2010, a Swedish-drafted EU paper called for Jerusalem to be divided and become the joint capital of Israel and a Palestinian state, and criticized Israel's building in East Jerusalem.In Cairo speech, EU’s Catherine Ashton very critical of Israeli policies". Is it necessary? Can an alternative reference be found? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vernon39 (talk • contribs) 10:03, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Catherine Ashton: Cairo speech

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thread_title: Move discussion in progress

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thread_title: Move discussion in progress

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message: This Wall Street Journal Op-ed linked here is cited as a statement of fact to back up assertions against NGOs. WP:RS is pretty clear about this, when referring to op-eds it says that they "are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact." If this were an article about Gerald M. Steinberg's views on NGOs then it would be a reliable source for what he thinks of them, it isn't a reliable source for facts because it's his opinion.  I am attempting to resolve this through discussion (per WP:BRD) despite your 1RR violation. - SantiLak (talk) 21:50, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, as you correctly quoted "op-eds are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author..." As WP:BIASED says, reliability is always in context. Sometimes partisan sources are the only ones available which discuss such matters. There is nothing really controversial or disputed here. I think you are splitting hairs at this point. The article clearly states this is the opinion of the critics (not undisputed fact), followed in the next sentence by what NGO Monitor accuses the EU of doing. On the other hand, saying "human rights organizations" (which is not supported by source) isn't a non-controversial statement. They claim to care about human rights only, but that's a disguise for political activities against Israel, which is exactly what critics say. That's the whole point.--יניב הורון (talk) 22:01, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  WSJ Op-Ed - Not RS 

message: change "Former Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs Avigdor Lieberman" to "Israeli Minister of Defense Avigdor Lieberman" Mwishlight (talk) 18:48, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Danski454 (talk) 19:14, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  At the time he made that stmt in 2007 he was Minister of Strategic Affairs.Icewhiz (talk) 13:51, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 July 2018 

message: Wow! Xx236 (talk) 06:55, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''the EU has tried to present Tel Aviv as the Israeli capital'' 

message: The article mentions that there have been agreements between the EU and Israel for quite some time, and that trade agreements are a large part of that - but I can't find anything about whether or not that means that goods imported from Israel to the EU are exempt from customs/import taxes?
If that kind of information belongs in a different article, feel to point me there.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:959:AD20:C871:2BBC:964E:6A2E (talk) 08:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trade Agreement/Import Taxes? 

message: As to "Support"—I think that the former Maltese PM,Mr. Muscat,should be added due to this article that he has published on March this year. --עמית לונן (talk) 17:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 03:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 May 2024