Talk:Free Zone (region)

message: ===>POV issues What are the POV issues? From which POV is this article written? -Justin (koavf), talk, mail 15:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. It seems neutral enough to me. —Nightstallion (?) 13:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Southern Provinces (Moroccan-governed territories under military occupation)". If that were just " Southern Provinces (Moroccan-governed territories of Western Sahara)" I would consider it neutral. --SteveLo 22:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV? 

message: * I see this map as problematic:
# It seems to have no source, so it's private and as such not reliable. We had this at length but well ...
# The southern part is not accurate. As far as I know that area ia totally under Control of Morocco and travelers can go to Mauritania along the Atlantic without any problems.
: Thanks to anyone bringing more light into this. wikima 20:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map of the so-called free zone 

message: * This is an answer to reisio's revert on Western Sahara that is thought to remain as discussion as this place as the artcile on the "free zone" does not seem to make clear separation between facts and propaganda.
* This region is an arid and unpopulated area. All relevant urban and populated areas are under Moroccan control
* Polisario and "SADR" are based in algeria and only go there for symbolic demonstrations and events, which happens 2-3 times a year. This is not control.
* And when they do, they are severely condemned by the United Nations because concentration of troupes there is not allowed. You can't control nor administer an area if you are not allowed to concentrate troupes in it.
* Moroccan military is also present in that area and Morocco has been condemned for that. If you think that being military present there is control, then Morocco controls the area.
* All the population that is controlled by Polisario is in Tindouf, not in that area. So how can you control an area in which none lives, where you can't use your military and where all your relevant responsibles do not live?
* Unless you source it the so called "free zone" is not recognised as such by the institutions dealing with the conflict namely the UN. 
* There is an official buffer zone in that area along the berm. I don't have exact information but it should be a few kms wide. Morocco however considers this whole region as buffer zone and probably has built the wall not directly on the Algerian border to be able to fight the Polisario guerrillas in case of hostilities without being obliged to pursuit them on the algerian territory.
* Furthermore, the information as you are pushing in Wikipedia suggests that Morocco and polisario sort of share the control of Western Sahara. This is completely and awfully wrong.  
* Morocco is officially seen as the administrative power of Western Sahara by the UNirted Nations .
* The area before the berm which it controls include all relevant regions, urban areas, including the capital and the largest cities, the cost and the sahrawis who have chosen to live there. 
* Morocco governs that area using all means of sovereignty (flag, money, calling code, stamps, police, military, etc.).
* To change this one needs to justify that the "free zone" exists officially and is recognised by the UN, and that the “SADR” is recognised as its administrative power. This might be a challenge for the moment as the UN nor over 160 countries of the world do recognise the existence of the “SADR”.
* Until then the information remains that polisario merely claims control of a strip that it calls "free zone" for propaganda reasons.
: Rgds - wikima 20:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the Polisario called "Free Zone ", again 

message: A "self-published" map being used in this article (anonymous author, uploaded by "IAMTHEEGGMAN" , see File history) is a primary source and cannot legitimately be used as a secondary source in this article  according to the Reliable sources guideline and the Verifiability policy. I therefore deleted it.S710 12:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I created uploaded it (the egg guy merely re-uploaded in a new format). There was a source; I'll see if I can dig it out. --Robdurbar 22:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I based it on the map here. Its being used by some archeaologists from the University of East Anglia - about as neutral a source as you can get on something like this. --Robdurbar 22:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: map

message: I'm sorry, but I just don't understand what is wrong with this intro:
The "Free Zone" or "Liberated Territories" are names used by pro-independence Sahrawis to denote the area in Western Sahara east and south of the Moroccan Wall (or berm); approximately 20% of the territory. The Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (SADR) claims to control this area with Bir Lehlou as the temporary capital of the area and of the SADR; a substitute for El Aaiún, which is part of the Southern Provinces, the Moroccan-governed territories since 1975. However, the main Polisario headquarters remain in the refugee camps of Tindouf Province, just across the border in Algeria.
I mean it makes no claim that the Polisario control the area, it just describes it? If the article moves then change the first few words, but the whole thing? --Robdurbar 23:02, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh, what just happened here? Was this page also hit by the S710 deletion hurricane? On the name, that's been discussed a million times. No, Free Zone isn't neutral, but neither is Southern Provinces. They were seen to balance each other, as a pair, which I think is fine, since they also both refer to each other. But if someone really wants a change, I don't mind. But then both must change. (I suggest: Areas of Western Sahara controlled by Morocco, and Areas of Western Sahara controlled by the Polisario Front.) Arre 22:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh,uh, S710 is one of the best contributors to the Sahara articles. He seems to have the most academic knowledge about the Maghreb in general and The Sahara in particular. I understand your frustration, for all the POV you inserted (with koavf) is ceeding ground to more balanced contributions. The wording "free zone" is something that is at home on the SADR/Polisario's and their supporters pages, but not on Wikipedia, an encyclopedia. "Free" from what??, and what about the neighboring part?? it is clearly not "Free", because it is not under Polisario control??. Besides, I have explained elsewhere that not everything that was left by the Moroccan army outside the defensive wall is accessible to the Polisario let alone calim to administer it (especially Laguera and the coastal 65+ Kms). And exactly that word "Administration", Do you know what it means to see if the Polisario presence on some of the region outside the wall can be even termed as such?. So when you say, Areas of Western Sahara controlled by Morocco, you are refering to a region where there are institutions, cities, administrations, and there are political, economical, cultural, touristic, ... activities on all of the region refered to as under Moroccan control. But when you say Areas of Western Sahara controlled by Polisario, you are wrong about the word control, because it does not have it about a big deal of those areas. Having a symbolic and restricted presence of guerilleros here and there, plus some festivities lasting for a couple of days in a few years, do serve as fuel in the propaganda machinery of the Polisario as "proofs" of control, but does not fool the world that knows that the polisario's sporadic presence is a consequence of the cease-fire accords, and that until 1991, there was not a single fixed place where the polisarians coud stay for more than a few hours, otherwise the Moroccan air force would teach them what "Free" or "Liberated" means.--A Jalil 09:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I would suggest going back to the intro that is quoted above by Robdurbar as it strikes me as quite fair and NPOV. collounsbury 18:25, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Intro

message: How large is the population of this Zone (if any)? If there is reliable information on this, it should be in the article. Ucucha 21:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to Redhead7 for adding this. Ucucha 14:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population 

message: As already mentioned above, there remains a minor inaccuracy in the caption/legend of this map:
The word "claimed" should be replaced by "controlled", as both parties claim the entire disputed territory, but each controls only a part of it.
Also, the selective use of quotation marks only for the designation "Free Zone", but not for the designation "Southern Provinces" violates the neutrality principle in a subtle yet pretty blatant way.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.169.40.10 (talk) 12:14, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Map

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is this image still correct? According to the maps on this website and this wesbite, Morocco has expanded its Western Sahara Wall and split the SADR-controlled areas into five smaller regions (four of them are landlocked regions). 2001:8003:9008:1301:44BF:9024:8F8F:9B8A (talk) 13:08, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extent 0f the SADR-controlled areas