Talk:Tutankhamun/Archive 1

message: FWIW, here are the usual Google results, for pages in English:
* Tutankhamun - 77,600
* Tutankhamen - 73,900
* Tutankhamon - 11,000
So either the "un" or "en" form would be OK - we seem to have gone for the "un" form, which most (but not all) Egyptologists now use.
:It should be noted that "Amun" (i.e., the deity system of Amun) is usually spelled Amun to differentiate from Amen (i.e., the Christian "ending" of a prayer). By this logic, Amun is thus the "correct" ending. Master Thief Garrett 02:53, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it was certainly orders more intact than any other New Kingdom tomb ever found! And of course the sepulchre was still sealed from the original burial, so in that sense it was "intact". Noel (talk) 00:43, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It was really only intact because the nested sarcophagi were too big to carry! If it hadn't been so large they would have broken into it too... Master Thief Garrett 02:53, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: Well, that's the thing! While it was patriotic and all for the pharaoh to personally ride out and deal with the matter, he would order his commanders around to do the actual "dirty work". And where did he get such ideas from? The advisors! So the deeds of either cannot be really proven, since, as a rule, it is always the pharaoh who gets all the credit in inscriptions etc. Master Thief Garrett 02:53, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Top

message: Should my retouched version (:Image:Tutankhamun-mask-retouched.jpg) of the current image be used instead? -- Fredrik | talk 17:06, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the original better, although you get to see more detail in the revised version.  Maybe another version that is a little bit less lighted? - Bevo 18:52, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Retouched image

message: A team of researchers briefly removed King Tutankhamun's mummy from its tomb on Tuesday(/01/2005 and lay bare his bones for a CT scan that could solve an enduring mystery: was it murder or natural causes that killed Egypt's boy pharaoh 3 000 years ago?
Tutankhamun's toes and fingers and an eerie outline of his face could be seen as the mummy, resting in a box to protect it, was placed inside the machine in a specially equipped van, parked near his underground tomb in the famed Valley of the Kings.
The 1 700 images taken during the 15-minute CT scan could answer many of the mysteries that shroud King Tutankhamun's life and death - including his royal lineage, his exact age - now estimated at 17 - and the cause of his death. Net-Surfer
: The text addded to the page about this includes revealed that Tutankhamun may have been the twelfth ruler of ancient Egypt's eighteenth dynasty, that his ascension to the throne began at age 8, and that he died around 1323 BC. So how the devil did a CAT scan reveal any of this? I mean, the most you'd expect directly from a CAT scan is a more accurate age at death estimate. Yes, that data would be useful (given his reign length) in working out how old he was at accession. However, it would be of no use at all in working out the death date (the reign length is all that is useful there, and a CAT scan doesn't give you anything about that), or what the order of 18th dynasty rulers was (I don't think it is of any use in settling the Smenkhare successor and/or Nefertiti successor question). Unless someone can explain the connection, I'm going to remove these latter two points. Noel (talk) 02:44, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headline: Scan may solve mystery of King Tut 

message: Will someone fix the section on Tutankhamun's description of a peanut-head? This little description betrays a bit of white supremecist tampering of which I have been highly cognizant of since finding that some of the prime links relating to King Tut's facial rendering in national geographic over Google lead directly to white supremecist sites; I know the apologists will cry that they are only nationalists however.
:Actually, I inserted that, and I'm far from a white supremacist. :p  "Peanuthead" is a term common in the African-American community to describe the elongated (dolichocephalic) heads of black men (evident when they are balding/bald or have their heads shaved) with sagittal ridges, which produce the ovular or sometimes hammer-head shape with a dip in the center.  It looks like a peanut, and is a hallmark "racial" trait of many blacks which forensic scientists use in assigning racial identity to human remains.  King Tut's dolichocephalism is so pronounced, for years scientists suspected some kind of congenital deformity.  Same with maxillary and alveolar prognathism, resulting in a receding chin line, with regard to being used by forensic experts to classify an individual by "race."  And King Tut had all these characteristics in spades -- which makes it a virtual certainty, beyond a shadow of any reasonable doubt, that he was a blackman, and highly unlikely that he was "mixed" in any way, shape or form.  The brother was most likely chocolate brown (as most of his portraits depict him) or darker, like the Dinka or other Nilotic peoples of North Africa (and elsewhere). deeceevoice 11:36, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  peanut head? 

message: I've read before that the funeral mask is now generally thought to be of Smenkhare, and to have been reused for Tutankhamun; apparently Egyptologists recognised this early on, but some people used the image of the mask in exhibitions and books anyway because of the funeral mask's more impressive face. The canopic jar and National Geographic reconstruction do suggest this is plausible, as that face looks quite a bit different from the mask. Does anybody have a reference? Rd232 09:38, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Funeral mask 

message: "I've read before that the funeral mask is now generally thought to be of Smenkhare, and to have been reused for Tutankhamun; apparently Egyptologists recognised this early on, but some people used the image of the mask in exhibitions and books anyway because of the funeral mask's more impressive face. The canopic jar and National Geographic reconstruction do suggest this is plausible, as that face looks quite a bit different from the mask. Does anybody have a reference? Rd232 09:38, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Rd232 09:33, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smenkhare 

message: Was, "These questions rise wholly from the excitement Tutankhamun brought to the archaeological world, and for that are significant to his story."
By Andropolis.  (Top section). In my opinion this entire article needs to be rewritten head-to-toe.
(Petrograd 09:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Salient Line 

message: The article is being viciously assaulted by radical supremecist "207.188.79.177" --
What can we do?  Write me.
(Petrograd 18:07, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've cleaned this up now. And I hope the anon is going to be more helpful now - in particular, in raising disagreements here instead of repeatedly making controversial edits. Rd232 14:24, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You're a godsend, Rd.  Thank you.  My eyes have found relief at last.  (Petrograd 07:26, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rd232, HELP!!! 

message: ::Okay.  So, "radical afrocentric cult" was in the edit notes.  Such characterizations are not helpful -- and are just as inaccurate as, "In June, 2005, a radical Afrocentric group protested both the National Geographic Society's and the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities' new...."  This was in the article. This was not a single group.  The protestors also have been characterized as members of the NAACP.  What?  So now the NAACP is a "radical afrocentric cult/group"?  Ridiculous.
:Some examples of the ad hominem, nasty, name-calling approach taken by various "contributors":
*"Once again wiping clean Deeceevoice's violent vandalism; removed photo with very visible link to radical Afrocentric cult "Return to Glory" - edit note User:Petrograd
*"(Dutifully bypassed the chip on Deeceevoice's shoulder. Re-instated maliciously excised relevances. Will continue to do so as often as necessary.) - edit note User:Petrograd
*"Bypassed malicious Deeceevoice + "Afrocentric" edits. AFROCENTRISM IS IMPROPERLY NAMED: *OF COURSE* TUTANKHAMUN WAS AFRICAN, EGYPT IS *IN* AFRICA. SKIN TONE DOES NOT EFFECT THIS.)" - edit note User:Petrograd
*"(Being "shrill" is more honest than your toxic insidiousness, Dee. Every change reverted. "Original" a misnomer on Wikipedia.)" - edit note User:Petrograd
*"(Once again wiping clean Deeceevoice's violent vandalism; removed photo with very visible link to radical Afrocentric cult "Return to Glory".)" - edit note User:Petrograd 
*"(Dutifully bypassed the chip on Deeceevoice's shoulder. Re-instated maliciously excised relevances. Will continue to do so as often as necessary.)" - edit note User:Petrograd
*"I see Deecee has been here pursuing her black Egyptian agenda with her usual relentlessness and disingenuousness. I assume she added the following "Others scholars insist that at the time of King Tutankhamun, dynastic Egypt remained substantially black African in nature, with an influx of Nubian blood into the royal line during the seventeenth and eighteenth dynasties. (See Afrocentrism#Egypt and Black Identity.)". I think this sentence is wholly inappropriate. What "scholars"?" - talk page User:Paul Barlow (Note: No response when I provided various quotes from the Father of Egyptology W.M. Petrie.)
*"To call the tripe you write "fact," Dee, is an obscene molestation of the word." - talk page User: Petrograd
*"You're not as bright as you think you are, Dee. You don't have the right to treat others so dismissively. Self-congratulatory delusions notwithstanding." - talk page User:Petrograd
Grow up, people. deeceevoice 19:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Grow up!

message: They signal only a failure to look beyond ego and acknowledge personal mistakes.  I have never authored an unwarranted comment or exacted an inappropriate modification of Wiki content.  That is the domain of Deeceevoice.  It is ironic to create such a laundry list and follow it with the gross insult, "Grow up."  Clearly, every statement listed was richly provoked by Dee herself, often sockpuppeting as an anonymous IP address beginning "207."  This "scare" tactic, this scurrilous anti-user propaganda, is a disgusting and unwarranted "response" to very appropriate Tutankhamun article alterations.  And every word of it has been reported.(Petrograd 19:40, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What?  You see the mere reproduction of your comments as "desperate attacks"?  That's mildly amusing. :p deeceevoice 19:47, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Highly improbable. The anon user has rather limited edit competence, and Deeceevoice is an experienced Wikipedian. Do calm down, Petrograd. Take a cold shower or something. We can sort this out like adults, if we all keep our heads. Rd232 20:08, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ignore Deeceevoice's Desperate Attacks