Talk:Buddha Jumps Over the Wall

message: I notice that the Mandarin pronunciation and the Hokkien/Southern Min pronunication is given.  But the dish originates in Fuzhou. So shouldn't the Hok-chiu pronunciation be given?  If you're going to have Southern Min you might as well have Cantonese, Shanghainese and various other dialects.  I think only Mandarin and Hok-chiu are relevant.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dena.walemy (talk • contribs) 11:19, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunication

message: Can we find some kind of references for this? It sounds interesting, and yet bogus at the same time! Intrigue 07:20, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: please guys, it's best known in english-language menus as buddha jumps over the wall. InfernoXV (talk) 18:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I really dislike the English name, Buddha Jumps Over the Wall because it is poorly translated by Westerners or the translator seemed to want a shocking impact with the name. In the origin of the dish 佛 refers to "a Buddhist monk" not Buddha. However that is more known in English-speaking world according to Google news/Books. On the other hand, the English name is not that dominantly prevalent either. In that case, the name should be decided by Chinese manual of style.
Buddha jumps over the wall	Fo tiao qiang
*58 for "Buddha jumps over the wall"
*10 for "Buddha jump over the wall" 
*2 for "Buddha jumps the wall"
*4 on "Buddha jumps the wall"
*77 on "Buddha jumps over the wall"
*4 for "Buddha Jumping the Wall"
*5 for "Buddha Jumping over the Wall"	
*10 for "Fo tiao qiang"
*26 for "Fotiaoqiang"
*10 on "Fo tiao qiang" 
*14 on "Fotiaoqiang
--Caspian blue 22:29, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good Googling. I prefer the English name. In any case, discussion should have been used before the page was moved from English to tone-less pinyin. Badagnani (talk) 23:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

text: If that's the name most commonly used in English (i.e., on restaurant menus, etc.). For example, things like "dim sum," "har gow," "siu mai," etc. do not have English equivalents and the English translations are never used in such situations. But for this item it does appear that, as in the English-language news source you added earlier today, that the English name for this item is used in English. Badagnani (talk) 23:51, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, I meant the dish is a Cantonese food, so calling it in Cantonese is natural like "fattiucoeng" instead of "fo tiao qiang". But given the above research, most of "fotiaoqiang" are either from Chinese sites written in English or just brief mention in parenthesis. So I'm leaning toward the idea of changing the current title to "Buddha Jump Over the Wall" with the capitals. If we just title it like the way it used to be could give a wrong impression to readers as if that is an episode of Buddha.Caspian blue 14:54, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Fujian is not a Cantonese-speaking region; the primary language is Min Nan, and thus it's not correct to state that this is a primarily Cantonese food; it is Cantonese and Fujianese. Badagnani (talk) 18:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I know that, but thanks anyway. The dish is known as a just Cantonese in South Korea, so I said so.--Caspian blue 00:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Could we not use 'Buddha Jump Over The Wall'? 'Buddha Jumps Over the Wall' is at least grammatical. InfernoXV (talk) 08:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm.. that is my grammatical error.--Caspian blue 00:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

text: (out) In the past I have generally used the Chinese name when it's a food that's not well-known to English speakers (for example, suanmeitang).  Based on Caspian's googling, it looks like this dish is well-known enough that we can go with the English name. And the Consumption outside China section could always have a sentence or two about the name by which it is known to English speakers (and, thus, the translation issues mentioned above—if there's a reliable source for that). rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 00:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

text: When I wrote the above first, I just said if from my knowledge and Korean newspapers, not look into English sources by googling. Interestingly, Korean newspapers define the meaning of the dish as "Buddhist monk" not "Buddha". However the name caused a big controversy in South Korea in 1989, so writers may want to avoid any objection from Buddhist associations.--Caspian blue 03:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, 佛 definitely means "Buddha" and not "monk." If it were a Buddhist monk, it'd be some character like 坊 or 僧. LordAmeth (talk) 20:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that is a cultural difference. In Korea, 坊 is definitely not used for Buddhist monk, but just refers to "neighbor" or room. 僧 is not solely used such as 僧侶, honorific for Korean pure word, Jung. And 佛者 refers to Buddhist monk, or students of Buddha or Buddhist, so sometimes, 佛 refers to other than Buddha in Korea.--Caspian blue 20:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  name? 

message: According to the examination on Google News/Books, Buddha Jumps Over the Wall (with the capitals) is established name in English-speaking world, but others may think differently. (I'm not familiar with manual styles for Chinese articles. Anyway, I think it is a time to decide to move the title. --Caspian blue 00:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to where? 

message: The article makes health claims about the dish as a digestive aid and health supplement.  This is a medical claim sourced to a newspaper, JoongAng Ilbo.  Generally, Wikipedia cannot repeat medical claims from popular news sources (see WP:MEDRS) without some kind of verification in actual medical sources.  Lacking such sources, please remove it. Viriditas (talk) 22:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aids in digestion 

message: *Passing reference with links. Bongomatic 23:28, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Straw poll

message: *To Viriidtas: A reference that makes no mention of the dish, demonstrating that not only is the issue beyond "consumption outside China", but beyond the scope of this article. Bongomatic 04:10, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: I was asked for an opinion. The standard practice tis that a one-paragraph summary of related or specialized material is appropriate, but  what is questionable is the NPOV of the summary. Personally, I find the practice, whether widespread or sporadic, remarkably  disgusting. But it still needs to be described neutrally, and I do not consider the current summary here or in the shark fin article neutral. I find it polemic, and possibly even intended to be so. It certainly has the at effect on me: it is quite sufficient to permanently dispel any desire i might have to ever experience the dish. I',m not altogether sure that this can be totally avoided. The mere existence of the redirect with an explanation in the most neutral language of what the term means is possibly sufficient to do that--and if it leads to following the redirect,  almost certain to.  The main article, additionally, is unfortunately a soapbox,with no pretense to NPOV, and must be edited. There's no need to display POV there--the blandest possible presentation will be quite sufficient. I do not plan to look at this question further; I'm human, and I have my limits, and I want to sleep tonight. (FWIW, I am not in the least an opponent of either the eating of animals or their proper use for scientific experimentation.) DGG (talk) 05:59, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Opinion

message: The demand for abalone and shark fin, two of the soup ingredients required for Buddha Jumps Over the Wall, are implicated in destructive fishing practices.  Profits from the US$100-200 dish, the growth of China's middle class, and the fashionable nature of particular Chinese food dishes have lead to increased shark finning and intensive diving for abalone, both legal and illegal.  According to reports, abalone harvesting and purchasing by Asian countries is regularly exceeding fishery limits.  Because of the popularity of shark fin for soup, it is reported that 100 million sharks around the world may be killed each year.
:Alternative: The soup is mentioned specifically for its two key ingredients in reports related to destructive fishing practices. Abalone is considered endangered and is harvested legally and illegally, although it has begun to be farmed.<citation> Shark fins are sometimes obtained by the controversial practice of shark finning.<citation> Demand for the ingredients to make the US$100-200 dish comes from China's growing middle class and the dish's status in Asia.<citation>
:Got rid of "implicated". Tried to be clear but as NPOV as possible. Could be in its own section or ingredients section. I'm good either way. Thoughts? ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Demand and overfishing

message: In passing, and without care for this dish except commiserating with the poor murdered sharks, isn't there some Western dish, or maybe alcoholic drink, fortuitous or derived, which references a Monk ( Christian ) or Nun leaping over a wall, prolly in advertising... ? Claverhouse (talk) 09:16, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western Analogue 

message: — Assignment last updated by ReadyMadeAl (talk) 16:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: The Free Internet