Talk:Super Smash Bros./Archive 8

message: For the seventh time.→041744 00:15, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice! --LN3000 (talk) 05:55, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive 7

message: Under the note for Pokemon Trainer it says the player "controls the Trainer only when switching between the three Pokémon."
I don't recall seeing this on the site or in any other source. PT wasn't playable at E for All, so unless someone can verify this fact I think it should be removed. Unless maybe I'm misunderstanding what it means. Either way, I think it ought to be made more clear. 24.6.89.5 (talk) 04:59, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What that means is that the only action Pokemon Trainer does is switch Pokemon. All other actions are performed by Charizard and company. It's fine the way it is.Satoryu (talk) 05:01, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If that statement could confuse someone who is familiar with Brawl, imagine how much it could confuse readers who don't know a thing about it. I think it should be reworded a little. Shall I do the honors?    Powerslave  05:10, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. That works.Satoryu (talk) 05:13, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controlling the Pokemon Trainer? 

message: I am not saying to add this to the article but I think she appears in two screenshots of the update of the Co-op Events
1. In the first screenshot of the events, in event number 6, what appears to be a battle against a giant DK, if you zoom it on Paint you can see what appears to be diddy kong and dixie kong.
2. In the second screenshot, in the 4 event, you can see a blonde monkey, it may be Dixie Kong or less probable Tiny Kong  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.163.39.74 (talk) 05:57, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, she's in the game in some form or fashion; the Dec. 07 issue of GameInformer (with the Ghostbusters logo on the cover) also has a very blatant screenshot with her, Diddy, and a banana peel on a stage I couldn't identify for sure (looked like the first Subspace Adventure stage).  But since we don't know whether she's a playable character or an assist trophy, there's really no point to this discussion. Arrowned (talk) 06:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Any way you slice it, dixie kong is not comifirmed, saying so is orginal reasherch an spectulation.→041744 13:04, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: In the game stop magazen issue #176 they also show a section of SSBB and Dixie kong(with diddy kong) is in it with a banana with eyes then on the next page it shows all the players but shes not on it so i think we should wait for Dojo.--DarkFierceDeityLink 13:57, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In case you guys missed the conversation with Tinkleheimer above (I can confirm the video clip he linked is the screencap I saw in a magazine), she's a normal trophy (not even assist).  There's no need to even "wait for Dojo", because Dojo's already confirmed it. Arrowned (talk) 16:20, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lots of playable characters and assists are also trophies, Arrowned. --(trogga) 17:19, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I revised the screenshots that the first user say, and the first one really looks like Dixie Kong, and its probable, because one of the event matches can be a battle of Diddy Kong and Dixie Kong  against Giant DK. And she has high possibilities of being a playable character, in melee Diddy Kong didn't appeared as a trophy and now he is playable. And in the video where she appears along Diddy Kong and Xananab, you can notice that the position of Diddy Kong is similar to the one of his artwork, Dixie Kong had also a different position that i think it has never seen in any artwork, while Xananab was given the same position as in his DK Jungle Climber. But all these is only speculation. User:Javier12345  —Preceding comment was added at 17:48, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I dont think so, but in that image the colors look different, Diddy Kong's colors look like maroon. And Dixie hat is more like magenta, so i'm almost sure that the one of that image is Dixie Kong. User: Javier12345  —Preceding comment was added at 20:16, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: You never know. While I agree this debate has gone on longer than need be, Dixie Kong may still be a playable character. There is no confirmation or denial for that. So add her to the list of possible characters we not need mention on the article, if she isn't there already.Satoryu (talk) 23:25, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe its not magenta, but is not exactly pink. And I agree that this is a ridiculous discussion, althought I think she is playable.user:Javier12345  —Preceding comment was added at 23:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the weakest character argument ever. --LN3000 (talk) 23:57, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say this is the weakest argument on Wikipedia EVER, but 4channers still hold that unimpressive record. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 00:06, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Does Masahiro Sakurai read the stuff we put on wikipedia?--DarkFierceDeityLink 00:05, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: NTIKO. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 00:06, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, your opinion should not be in here and it can cause speculation. And thats not enough info, to say wether she is going to be playable or not. And I think Dixie has high possibilities of being playable, but its only speculation. user:javier12345  —Preceding comment was added at 02:33, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also now I notice Dixie clothes are pink and are very far from magenta, sorry about that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Javier12345 (talk • contribs) 02:50, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I never say we should put Dixie as playable in the artcle. 201.163.39.74 (talk) 18:50, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mabey you should have clairified that alot sooner, appearently that's what we all thought you were impleing.→041744 22:25, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: o well, sorry for causing a confusion, it was only an opinion  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.163.39.74 (talk) 23:15, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not for opinions, it is for the displayment of facts, please keep your opions to yourself.→041744 13:11, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't WP:BITE. Cheers, Axem Titanium (talk) 04:33, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Saying it's likely is speculation.  Unless we know for certain, we shouldn't even be having this conversation. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 00:25, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dixie Kong

message: We now know for a FACT that he's a boss for Fox, Diddy.-SLJCOAAATR  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.166.188 (talk) 14:46, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been noted already. Oubliette (talk) 15:39, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Raquazza

message: I found this somewhere, I don't remember where, but what i found said, "Clay models for Sheik have been sent to Mr. Sakurai, but it is unknown if he will include Sheik." So, could you PLEASE put it back? Ivyluv (talk) 01:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: (RI) The onus is on you to provide the proof, not on us to wait on you for proof. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 01:43, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually in this case, there already is proof... of the fact that the models were submitted.  As the FAQ says, we have no idea what those models will be used for (Playable characters?  Assist trophies?  Subspace Emissary bosses?) or if they'll be used at all, so there's no reason to add that trivial note on its own to the article. Arrowned (talk) 04:04, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Two Things:
1. Oh. Thanks! and...
2. "Actually in this case, there already is proof... of the fact that the models were submitted.  As the FAQ says, we have no idea what those models will be used for (Playable characters?  Assist trophies?  Subspace Emissary bosses?) or if they'll be used at all, so there's no reason to add that trivial note on its own to the article."::::Well, not to be rude of course, but, uh, if we put my note in at all, what should we put in?Ivyluv (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no point in discussing what we'd put in.  There's no way to add a note to the character list in a way that would make it not be original research, and adding an abbreviated note somewhere else that pretty much just says what I did earlier would be a waste of space considering it's nothing but "here's some info that may or may not have any bearing on the game". Arrowned (talk) 05:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shiek's models 

message: http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff285/horus_disco/luigirendervv21.jpg  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarkFierceDeityLink (talk • contribs) 02:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright... so how is that going to help the article? Powerslave (talk|cont.) 02:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah how does it? Also maybe I'm just feeling De Jvju but hasn't this picture been brought up before? The Light6 (talk) 02:47, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

text:  I just want you guys to be on the look out people already have adding him in showing this picture and i have to do a lot of undoing and i'm starting to get a lil mad at people who add players to the game who are not in the game like Naruto. I believe that this page needs protection.--DarkFierceDeityLink 02:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if the picture's genuine, there is no proof one way or another what role the younger Mario Brother will play in Brawl.  Remember that a few PCs from Melee aren't going to be in Brawl, at least not as PCs. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 02:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

text:  But theirs no evidence that they(Luigi, C. Falcon ect) wont come come back, maybe the clones womt back excluding Ganon but theres no evidence to that. So I think we should wait for Dojo I just wanted you guys to see that picture( its fake if you zoom in to his left hand you see red which means this was really mario the person chnaged the picture like they did to the one from wolf http://www.maj.com/gallery/oozotheclown/Alternatecostumes/foxwolf.jpg really (fox)).--DarkFierceDeityLink 02:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no evidence that they *will* come back, either.  And I didn't need to zoom in to know it was Photoshopped - Luigi would not have the exact same pose. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 03:16, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I knew a photoshop of Luigi was discussed before, however it wasn't the same image Archive 3 - Luigi either way it's a photoshopped image so there is no point in discussing it, however I do agree that the page needs to be semi-protected again. The Light6 (talk) 04:10, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not THAT trigger-happy to prot. Besides, the unsourced-addition crap has died down.  Semi-prot  Declined (for now). -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 04:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: NOTE) Super Smash Bros. Brawl is  Semi-protected.  If you have any objections, voice them Here. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 23:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  look what i found looks fake but believable  

message: There's a new tertiary character group similar to Wire Frames, the Alloys. I move that we add them to this artical with pictures. 71.48.91.171 (talk) 02:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I move that we don't; that's bias towards Brawl and against Melee (Fighting Wire Frames) and 64 (Fighting Polygon Team). This article is supposed to be about all the games.  I don't object to a short description of them in the same section as the FWF and FPT, but no pics. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 02:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Or the above suggesting with a new Polygon picture, perhaps? Oubliette (talk) 11:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

text: No shoops, please... Anyways, guess I'll be bold. Coreycubed (talk) 19:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alloys 

message: Hey... at the Character list, it says Olimar can't do any attack. This hasn't been confirmed, it only says his SMASH-attacks can be done without pikmin. Normal A-attacks could still be possible.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wobster (talk • contribs) 14:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What are you talking about? It's there plain as day. -Sukecchi (talk) 20:19, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's happened to me more than once. Not sure if it's got something to do with the way my browser's pulling stuff from MediaWiki, but a hard refresh should help. Try Ctrl-Shift-R. Coreycubed (talk) 20:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pikmin 

message: Why are the Pikmin listed before Olimar? isn't Olimar the Chracter and the Pikmin his help &/or weapons? I'm just curious, as I think it would be better if it was Captain Olimar and the Pikmin listed in a foot note, like with Pokemon Trainer!  Doktor  Wilhelm  20:36, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: B/C THE PIKMIN ARE THE ONES WHO ARE REALLY FIGHTING AS IT STATES ON THE SITE WITH OUT THEM HE'S NOTHING NO SMASH ATTACK NO NOTHING.(SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS MY KEY BOARD IS BROKEN.)--DarkFierceDeityLink 20:38, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but in that case, shouldn't every chracter that mostly uses a weapon be listed by the weapon they use, as it's the weapons that do the fighting? But, that's besides the point, I've just knotice (that as ever) I am mistaken, and the dojo lists them as Pikmin and Olimar!  Doktor  Wilhelm  20:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dojo names them "Pikmin & Olimar", so that's what we use here.  We did the same thing with Falco, Fox, Samus, and Snake; they all have last/other names in their canon sources, but Dojo/Melee lists their names as exactly that, so that's what we're using. Arrowned (talk) 20:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, first of all, a new keyboard can be had for like $5, so you might want to just buy another one, or pop a few keys off of your keyboard and clean it with a damp cloth to see if that helps. Second, the quote from Dojo is as follows: "Without Pikmin, Olimar can’t even do a Smash Attack." In the typical vague fashion, this doesn't say he can't do regular attacks without Pikmin. Besides, what happens if all the Pikmin die? Point is, we don't know, which is why it's worded the way it is in the footnote. Lastly, SLJCOAAATR, you might want to register for an account. Your signature is being replaced with your IP address when you post. Coreycubed (talk) 14:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well from what I can tell, Dojo says Pikimin & Olimar, so that's my reasoning. It shouldn't matter what weapons he uses in his name. It says on the site exactly! Trevor "Tinkleheimer" Haworth 16:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

text: You keep saying you rarely use it. So what? It's not like it expires or anything. Just register already. >_> -Sukecchi (talk) 02:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Why are the Pikmin listed first?

message: Wjere it says " 2. ^  In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Pokémon Trainer stays in the background while the player takes direct control of Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Charizard. The set is listed under the name "Pokémon Trainer". ", I think that someonen should change it to " 2. ^  In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Pokémon Trainer stays in the background, although in moving stages he doesn't appear, while the player takes direct control of Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Charizard. The set is listed under the name "Pokémon Trainer" or "P. Trainer". "
source is http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Brawl_demo_featured_at_Whobby_2008
:Is that relevant? No, not really. Because no matter what, you aren't controlling the Pokemon Trainer. So changing the footnote isn't necessary. -Sukecchi (talk) 01:18, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pokémon Trainer 

message: Would a link to Wikia's Super Smash Bros. Wiki be appropriate for an Smash Bros. related pages? I just wanted to ask to prevent any wasted edits on my part. Bonko24 (talk) 19:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We discussed this in a previous talk page chat; the archive for it is here.  The ending decision was not to link to SmashWiki, basically because it fails criteria #2 (and somewhat 13) of WP:EL's list of links that should be avoided.  Specifically, SmashWiki fails the criterion because of its instability and speculation, something a lot of individual Wikia sites tend to suffer from. Arrowned (talk) 19:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to remind everyone SmashWiki and Super Smash Bros. Wiki are two different wikis. SmashWiki is hosted on Smash Boards, while the Super Smash Bros. Wiki is hosted on Wikia.--24.109.218.172 (talk) 21:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Smash Bros. Wiki 

message: I think there should be a separate page for the characters in the series, with a brief description of them including their Special Moves and Final Smashes. - Addit (talk) 09:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see three things wrong with that page: game guide, cruft, and redundancy with main articles for each character.  As it is, each character in the games has a SSB blurb on their page. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 09:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is a good idea if you could get around those three things. Maybe it would work if it was more like a list than a game guide. Epass (talk) 19:40, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't get around the fact that it is redundant - that's the rub.  As I've stated, all characters with an SSB appearance have a note stating so in their respective articles. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 19:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's a good idea, but it won't last long on wikipedia.Pikazilla (talk) 22:12, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There would need to be something about how they are/were accepted by fan/critics and other such 'real world' stuff!  Doktor  Wilhelm  22:19, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Once upon a time, such a page existed but it was deleted for the redundancy issues discussed above. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:38, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not all of the characters actually have their own pages. Perhaps we could try it, and see if it works? - Addit (talk) 12:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The characters which don't have pages have a listing on pages about characters from the series they are from and they have the mention of Super Smash Bros. there. Also we will not being trying it to see if it works. People on wikipedia are suppose to be wikipedians first and fans second so I assume that various people working on this page and the Brawl page would support it's deletion if it goes against policies, myself included. The Light6 (talk) 14:15, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

text: That's not what is being discussed. -Sukecchi (talk) 18:26, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Separate page for characters?

message: We all know Sakurai did not want the character's to be revealed to the world, and now it's spreading like wildfire. At first I didn't believe any of it, but now I really do think that they ARE in the game. So now I think that since they removed it from the site, we should respect the fact that they don't want the characters revealed yet. It was an obvious accident and now they're trying to cover it up. So we should help by taking the characters down. Atleast until Sakurai admits that they have been revealed. And if you guys can't do that then atleast put them as questionable and put a note saying they are in the game. We just don't have all the info yet. It's like deconfirming Mewtwo, there's not enough info to prove Mewtwo is out, so there's not enough info to prove Lucario is in. .WanderingHero (talk) 02:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why put them as a ? Lucario was never in super smash before so how would that look two x's and a ? Leave it the way it is, it was their mistake to show us, they were confirmed by the video by showing us their lil faces on the bottom and i'm pretty sure that the next up date will show all 3 of them.--DarkFierceDeityLink 02:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure Wikipedia isn't interested if the info was leaked and the sources want to cover it up, if the info is known and it can be added then it is added, Wikipedia isn't censored which is why the spoiler tags were removed. The Light6 (talk) 02:40, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: It  should stay we agreed on it.--DarkFierceDeityLink 02:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless, we aren't going to be getting any more DOJO!! updates, it seems - the English (american) part of the site times out whenever I click on it. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 08:23, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Works fine for me.  We got info about a Manaphy Pokéball and a link to this interview with tonight's update. Arrowned (talk) 08:27, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As much as I agree that this confirms Lucario, Jigglypuff, and Ness (HA! I was right. You owe me $20!). I must agree that this is still kinda vague. Though 99.9% Confirmation (at least to me), that remaining .1% prevents me from agreeing that they should be on the page. Dengarde ► Complaints  09:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: He didn't mean it like that. Say if I had Sonic Lucario and Luigi and you didn't that would make the game spoiled for the player. So They stay check and even if we did take it we'd have to take Luacrio off and half the world already knows they are in.--DarkFierceDeityLink 14:57, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Respect Sakurai's Wishes not to show character's accidentally shown 

message: Nintendo removed the early leaks from their website. YouTube videos are never used as sources on Wikipedia.
The second source you're using is self-published and is not verifiable. 
I quote
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that readers should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed.
Wikipedia doesn't allow self-published third party sources so thats why you can't use Joystiq.
--HeaveTheClay (talk) 15:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: First off it wasn't youtub we got it from we got it from nintendo 2nd looking at your talk page you seem like a bad person who may be up to something how about you don't touch the page unless you see the talk page and other users agree.--DarkFierceDeityLink 15:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Use punctuation marks if possible, please, it makes it easier to understand you. And if the edit war continues, I will either block you both or permanent protect the article. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 15:27, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Your not understing you believed what we had was from a 3rd party it wasn't it was from nintendo which is useable pluse the makes edited that video also so fans wont find out about this is really unnecessary and needs to be taken off.--DarkFierceDeityLink 15:52, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Heave, we have actually reached a consensus about the matter. It wasn't DarkFierceDeityLink who made that change but Sukecchi and Coreycubed. I don't think you understood The Light6's message. Nintendo did remove those icons and re-uploaded a new video but there are still freeze frames from the edited video that prove the old videos. Thus, it is still a credible source. The use of joystiq was to show the original video where the freeze frames have easier access to for the sake of those reading it. But, the thing is, the edited video on the Japanese Wii site still has some of those freeze frames. So, I hope you understand Heave that people have discussed this. We don't need to make another edit war, there's been 2 of such already. I hope you've read the character reveal heading first before doing what you did. If you did, then please state why we can't use the nintendo wii Japanese site as a credible source. deecee (talk) 16:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Heave, he's right. The icons are still visible on Nintendo's site. Furthermore, I added the reference while the page was still fully visible, and included the access date, at which time the video was fully visible. The history confirms this if you wish to be precise. Please refrain from making trouble, as you are not the only editor working on this page, and we have reached a consensus on the matter. Coreycubed (talk) 17:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: A consensus was made to keep it in? Aw man, if only I had a connection, I could have partaken in the debate :( Anyways, after getting VERY little sleep on it, I have to agree with these guys. Dengarde ► Complaints  17:06, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I remember fully well, and this is not the same scenario. As detailed in the previous discussion, it does not constitute OR to use the video as a source; no research is involved, and the source is the same for all content involved. WP:OR and WP:V do not conflict with citing the Wii video. Coreycubed (talk) 17:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: To put it bluntly, we've changed our minds since then.  Back in those days we were so frustrated over rampant vandalism that we adopted a "no additions unless they're on DOJO!!" mentality in an attempt to counter, but we've since clearly relaxed that, partly due to so many more editors starting to keep watch over the page that it's easier to counter the vandals.  In fact, we added Sheik hours before DOJO!! actually confirmed her.  Now our stance is clearly that if another source that is legitimately trustworthy breaks the news, it's okay for addition.  When the news is legitimate, we only get wishy-washy about it when there's a question as to whether they're playable or not, which applied with DK, but didn't apply with Sheik, and doesn't apply here. Arrowned (talk) 18:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: No one's sourcing YouTube. The Joystiq article source the Wii site, and includes a mirror for convenience. I take what you're saying with a grain of salt anyways; did you even read our discussion on the matter? You're covering old territory. Coreycubed (talk) 18:20, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You know what? Joystiq is obviously a perfectly fine source, especially since the video is a NINTENDO RELEASED VIDEO. Plus the fact that someone already put Lucario Jiggly and Ness on. Following the comment of someone above, let's stop this discussion and wait a few more days, since we all know that some fanatic will manage to get their hands on it and hack it before it is even released. If no one does that, then we'll wait for the real release date and examine the blogs closely.--haha169 (talk) 00:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Pokémon Trainer is indeed shown on the Groudon sticker; nobody claimed that was Ness.  Ness appears in a different shot entirely, along with Lucas, underneath a Lucas and Sonic sticker on the topright side of the image. Arrowned (talk) 02:06, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. If that was Ness, everyone, including Mr. Sakurai himself, would know that image was Photoshopped. Ness is an Earthbound character, not a Pokémon character. Ness and Pokémon Trainer may look alike, but not enough to mix the two up with the other. ♥,Ivyluv (talk) 04:06, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don't confirm Lucario, Jiggly, and Ness without a proper source 

message: If Pichu and Mewtwo weren't on the list with the other characters, that means they are not playable so I put up an "X".69.121.102.73 (talk) 17:54, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't you dare. This does not mean they are not playable. Perhaps they weren't unlocked yet. Or maybe they're not usable in Subspace Emissary. Their fates are still up in the air.Satoryu (talk) 17:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is exactly what Satoryu just said. The video only confirms characters playable, it doesn't confirm characters not playable. The other characters (like Pichu and Mewtwo) might just not be unlocked yet, they might not be able to use the stickers, or they might not be involved in Subspace Emissary since only characters in Subspace Emissary can use stickers.Shyrangerr (talk) 18:05, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

text: This makes sense, as the site said that *most* of the unlockables would be from the Subspace Emissary. Or perhaps certain scenes can't occur without a character being unlocked prior. Either way, this does not deconfirm anyone at all. Instead, be happy that the three are in, especially after that argument that got the page locked down before. Oubliette (talk) 02:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I, personally, find it doubtful that every one of the people shown in the icons so far are all default at the start (judging from how many and who you started with on Melee).  It's quite likely that in the Testing version they were using that EVERYONE was unlocked.  Likely, but not definite.  So there's no "X" about it.  69.65.69.116 (talk) 21:01, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: It doesn't matter what any of you think, the point is that it's a far cry from sourceable and certainly not suitable for use on Wikipedia. Any more speculation, as usual, will be subject to removal. Coreycubed (talk) 21:17, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

text: There's no reason to believe that they would necessarily use the release version for promotional videos just because it's available to them.  Unless there's some form of "actual gameplay footage" thing they have to or are for whatever reason abiding to.  But you missed the point that the listed characters don't seem like they'd all belong to the starting set.  If they have one unlocked, they should have all whether it's the release version or a debug version.  It's not like the people making the video are actually playing through the game.  Though this argument is moot because we both (all) think that they should stay as ?s.  69.65.69.116 (talk) 07:55, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Pichu and Mewtwo are NOT deconfirmed. Their fate is still up in the air, and they will remain as "?". --haha169 (talk) 00:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I agree just b/c Lucario and the trainer are new to brawl it doesn't mean that mewtwo or even pichu are gone.--DarkFierceDeityLink 00:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

text: It's possible that the Groudon sticker just doesn't apply to them. They may lack attacks that can use the sticker. For all we know, a Mario or Zelda character could use the Groudon sticker after a while. Oubliette (talk) 16:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pichu and Mewtwo 

message: despite HAL Laboratory putting Game Arts in charge of preliminary development for Brawl. - I call bullshit. HAL was busy, that's why Skrai needed another team.--141.84.69.20 (talk) 01:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.  HAL Labs shouldn't be listed as in place of the "we" as that's a bit of an assumption. Arrowned (talk) 01:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's still misleading. Game Arts wasn't in charge, but some of their staff came to be the core of the Brawl team.--141.84.69.20 (talk) 03:49, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Modified it again.  As a friendly heads-up, you can be bold and make these changes yourself when you see they're necessary; we don't have a problem with sensible fixes like this. Arrowned (talk) 04:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not see that happening anytime soon, but thanks.--141.84.69.20 (talk) 04:53, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, Arrowned, the page had to be semi-protected because of constant chicanery on the characters list. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 05:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, oops; my fault.  I forgot it was still semi'd. Arrowned (talk) 05:58, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Null persp; the article will be unlocked in three days anyhow. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 06:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reading Comprehension 

message: "They can be seen forming out of strange purple spores that clump together"
I believe these purple spores may be called Shadow Bugs, whilst it is slightly dubious, it seems extremely likely according to this trophy description of a Big Primid on the official Dojo Website.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_uk/gamemode/modea/images/modea11/modea11_071226a-l.jpg  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.30.2.235 (talk) 17:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but we'll need a source for that, which probably won't show up until after Brawl releases in English. Powerslave (talk|cont.) 22:20, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Even so, what is that going to do? We will not include that into the Brawl article because it is extra information. If we add so much information, the article will be a useless, unreadable clump. --24.6.103.162 (talk) 00:46, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I think 82.30 was suggesting, you know, adding it to the series page. Powerslave (talk|cont.) 12:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding Primids

message: Shouldn't Zelda and Sheik be counted as the same character and the same for Samus and ZZS? Because you cant choose Sheik or ZZ at the beginning of a match so that makes them transformations. Wiki is having problems today so i couldn't edit it right. - Dancingcyberman
: Hmm, Sheik CAN be selected at the beginning of the match by holding a before the match. Yes, they are transformations but there has been a consensus already that since these characters were given Character profiles on the DOJO!!, they are given the privilege to be there separately but with footnotes attached to them. We follow Nintendo in making them separate characters. And besides, Zero Suit Samus isn't in 64 or Melee.deecee (talk) 12:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZZS same character? 

message: Could we do a complete copy of the character list but with stages? It would make it very helpful, - Dancingcyberman  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dancingcyberman (talk • contribs) 12:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be helpful to know all the stages but it is unnecessary. That's what we have Smash Wiki for. Having the same template as the Characters section would make it too cluttered. There's just too many stages as there are just many items and etc. It will take up too much unneeded space. I'm sorry but this too has been a long-time-ago consensus. deecee (talk) 12:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stages