Talk:Manhattan

message: With regards to the Geography section, do people generally prefer this version (status quo), or this version (proposed) as the basis for future development? Let's have some preliminary discussion, and if we don't arrive at a clear consensus I'll open an RfC to bring in wider viewpoints. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:29, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems clear to me that the proposed version would be best; anyone have any arguments to the contrary? User:Alansohn, did you wish to comment? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:30, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: As no objections were raised, I have implemented the proposed version. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:45, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that's the way to look at this. Manhattan is a sub article of NYC but has a large overlap with NYC. Architecture, Education, Economy, Geography, etc. Architecture of NYC, for example, is dominated by Manhattan. We should look at this article as a summary style article about the borough, with details pointing to various NYC articles or Manhattan specific articles.RegentsPark (comment) 18:50, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

text: * If you think there ought to be an alternative between the two versions, you're welcome to propose that to see if you get consensus for it. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:11, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, Charles Petzold, a computer programmer, is hardly a reliable source for anything on this page. RegentsPark (comment) 01:16, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

text: Courtesy ping to commenters above: . Nikkimaria (talk) 23:56, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

text: *I pinged him in the discussion above; he did not respond. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:07, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: *I don't see the relevance between the two discussions, as he has made an edit reversion regarding this issue on the main page. It's a moot point now as I've pinged him. Castncoot (talk) 01:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

text: *Nikkimaria, please take a look at Rockland County, New York#Adjacent Counties and Dutchess County, New York#Adjacent counties. Manhattan is the borough-equivalent name for New York County, New York, and needs a similar Adjacent Counties section intact. It does not need to have the current diagrammatic representation though, and can be formatted as regular prose like the above examples. Castncoot (talk) 03:53, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: *I don't think either of those are particularly useful as presented. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:55, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: * And do you know why you don't think either is useful as presented, Nikkimaria? Because you have no apparent adequate or acceptable New York or US topic experience. It's really scary that those without significant topic experience are even allowed to make important decisions regarding the article. Would you want a knee surgeon doing brain surgery? And then even worse, saying, "I don't find this part of the brain useful. Let's either place it behind the knee or dispose of it altogether"? Castncoot (talk) 14:46, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You should be blocked for this last post of yours Castncoot. You're making several assumptions that are violations of WP:AGF. That you know more about New York than other editors. That they are editing here for all the wrong reasons (fascination with New York!). That you are the safeguard-er of integrity while these "others" don't care about that. Bear in mind that you know nothing about other editors just as we know nothing about you. I suggest you strike out the, gratuitous and presumptuous, comment that you've just made.RegentsPark (comment) 17:24, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously I'm not conveying myself well, so let me try again. Everyone is working in good faith. We all have a different view of what the optimal editing is, and that is what leads to tension. And just as some here think the article is just plain too long, there are others who feel that in the good-faith attempt to make it shorter, that the quality of the article suffers. So everyone is trying to "right" a large ship in their own way, and that naturally leads to turbulence. The seas will quiet, but it takes time, it does not happen with the snap of a finger. Castncoot (talk) 05:59, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

text: I guess what we're getting at here is No Consensus for a strictly binary version of A or C. And I'm not surprised. Castncoot (talk) 01:31, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Geography

message: Should Version A or Version C of the Geography section be used as the basis for future development? 23:54, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Courtesy ping to commenters above: . Nikkimaria (talk) 23:56, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

text: *I pinged him in the discussion above; he did not respond. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:07, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: *I don't see the relevance between the two discussions, as he has made an edit reversion regarding this issue on the main page. It's a moot point now as I've pinged him. Castncoot (talk) 01:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

text: *Nikkimaria, please take a look at Rockland County, New York#Adjacent Counties and Dutchess County, New York#Adjacent counties. Manhattan is the borough-equivalent name for New York County, New York, and needs a similar Adjacent Counties section intact. It does not need to have the current diagrammatic representation though, and can be formatted as regular prose like the above examples. Castncoot (talk) 03:53, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: *I don't think either of those are particularly useful as presented. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:55, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: * And do you know why you don't think either is useful as presented, Nikkimaria? Because you have no apparent adequate or acceptable New York or US topic experience. It's really scary that those without significant topic experience are even allowed to make important decisions regarding the article. Would you want a knee surgeon doing brain surgery? And then even worse, saying, "I don't find this part of the brain useful. Let's either place it behind the knee or dispose of it altogether"? Castncoot (talk) 14:46, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You should be blocked for this last post of yours Castncoot. You're making several assumptions that are violations of WP:AGF. That you know more about New York than other editors. That they are editing here for all the wrong reasons (fascination with New York!). That you are the safeguard-er of integrity while these "others" don't care about that. Bear in mind that you know nothing about other editors just as we know nothing about you. I suggest you strike out the, gratuitous and presumptuous, comment that you've just made.RegentsPark (comment) 17:24, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously I'm not conveying myself well, so let me try again. Everyone is working in good faith. We all have a different view of what the optimal editing is, and that is what leads to tension. And just as some here think the article is just plain too long, there are others who feel that in the good-faith attempt to make it shorter, that the quality of the article suffers. So everyone is trying to "right" a large ship in their own way, and that naturally leads to turbulence. The seas will quiet, but it takes time, it does not happen with the snap of a finger. Castncoot (talk) 05:59, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

text: I guess what we're getting at here is No Consensus for a strictly binary version of A or C. And I'm not surprised. Castncoot (talk) 01:31, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for comments: Geography section

message: When I see all this emotional turmoil, I have to remind myself of how hard editing Wikipedia can be.
I, like many of us here, have spent many hours over several days, with painful attention to sources, clarity, format and prose style, on Wikipedia articles and tables only to see my work misunderstood, undone slashed and distorted by some editor somewhere at some later time — sometimes with perfectly good intentions, and sometimes with a bias or ulterior agenda.
And my natural reaction is bewilderment, frustration, sometimes rage and sometimes leaving the article or table altogether to gather my thoughts, try to see the other editor's view, and sometimes comment on the talk page.
On the other hand, Wikipedia is not static, and none of us is blessed with the omniscience and judgement to create a Perfect Article. And once thrown out on mainspace, Wikipedia as a whole (not just the most recent editor) becomes responsible for the article.
So try to understand reactions that may seem ill-tempered. Step away from the Talk Page until you review what other editors are driving at and can craft the most cogent and useful reply.
End of lecture. I hope that wasn't too pompous. —— Shakescene (talk) 01:52, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia can be brutal and unkind... 

message: Great article, but I found the info at notes 44 and 45 a bit hard to follow. 2600:E000:4D3:F848:ADD4:C147:F8C5:EEBA (talk) 12:15, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean at the sources themselves? Nikkimaria (talk) 21:49, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manhattan History 

message: Why is Manhattan's neighborhoods in Lithuanian on the map? Junichsen (talk) 02:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe this is a known bug with open street map, although previously the complaints were that places showed in Serbian. CMD (talk) 03:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about the map