Talk:Mare (folklore)

message: I cut the following sentence from the pop culture section: "Mara is the Sanskrit word for evil". I don't know if someone wants to source it and incorporate it into the main text, but it sure doesn't belong where it was. Aleta 23:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sanskrit? 

message: The provisionaly Slavic folkloric concept of Mora is akin to Mara, and stems from the same Indo-European root. I suggest the two be merged. TomorrowTime (talk) 19:28, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, a merge could be done to show the possible Indo-European origin of the mare. It is strange that this article discusses Scandinavian and Slavic variations, when there's another article doing so too. My only criterion is that the different variations are clearly separated and discussed separately, while a section with theories of origin may bring them all in at once. –Holt  T•C 06:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've changed my opinion. An article called Mare (folklore) should have subsections for all the separate Scandinavian, Slavic, English etc. beliefs, and discuss the Indo-European origin. All different beliefs have their own main articles. I've edited this article to only reflect the Scandinavian beliefs, and will continue to add more information. –Holt  T•C 00:11, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: Is there any relation between the female equine and the monster? Both share the same name and mares are believed to ride horses. Could someone detail more in depth this relation (if any)?David Latapie (✒ | @) — www
:There is no direct relation between the female horse and the folkloric creature. Their modern names might be the same, but the words have different origins. Mare "malevolent creature" derives from Old English mære, from Proto-Germanic *marōn-, while mare "female horse" comes from the Old English word mere, which possibly derives from the Proto-Germanic *márhijō-. –Holt (T•C) 02:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mare and mare 

message: In fantasy worlds today it's rather common that a Nightmare is the horse (Mare) itself - always, if not usually black. I can't think of any specific examples appart from "Magic Cards" though. --Kurtle (talk) 16:26, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern "Nightmares" 

message: *Oppose. No, these are not the same beings. They have very different etymologies; alp is the German cognate to modern English elf. We certainly do not need a distinct article on the German being, and we do not need a distinct article on the Old Norse form; they all stem from the same Proto-Germanic being. They should all be handled together as in scholarly works on the topic. :bloodofox: (talk) 20:51, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't agree that Proto-Germanic etymology is grounds for barring a move into Mare (folklore), because in modern use alp/alb is defined as both "1. elf, .." and "2. nightmare" (Cassel's dictionary). I would also note that there is already a interwiki link from :de:Nachtalb to Mare (folklore).  Cf. Jacob Grimm: "Oppression during sleep is caused by the alp or mar"TM vol 3, p.1419 Also: "In jeder Nacht kam der Nachtalp (die nachtmârte) zu ihm und drückte ihn" from  Niedersächsische sagen und märchen (1855), p.237 --Kiyoweap (talk) 08:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, I'm not barring mention of the motif elsewhere. Note that the English elf article needs to be rewritten from the ground up and something similar could easily happen with the tomfoolery with have with the Norse dwarves and dwarf (Germanic mythology) article, where all of the dwarf mythology and folklore stuff should just be handled in the latter but any such progress is hindered by confused anonymous IPs (see the talk page for the latter). :bloodofox: (talk) 18:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: To retool what I said before, there seems literally be no scrap of medieval writing where Middle High German alp is definitively used in the elf/álfr "often benevolent tribe of supernatural beings" sense. I queried MHDBDB for alp, resulting in 8 occurrences, and some of the usage was only figurative (which are open to claims that a proto-German elf is meant, but nothing definitive), or denoted a spirit that tricked you (i.e. caused some symptom), or referred to the devil with its tricks. I suppose I might make edits to add info in the Elf#Etymology  article. Alp as "nightmare" occurs in the charm Münchener Nachtsegen(quoted/translated in Alaric Hall's 2007 book and 2004 paper that Bloodofox has touched upon in talk:Elf ). At a certain point in history, the word Alp begins predominantly to denote "nightmare." (cf. Thun's article: "German Alb (Alp), Alf, Olf, in most cases a nightmare, sometimes a spirit of disease or even a devil.".)  As elf already mentions, "Elf" was introduced into German as a loan word from English (in the 1740s according to Thun), and I suspect this is precisely because in the German language the word alp began to lose the meaning as an all-purpose sprite. --Kiyoweap (talk) 12:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

text: Actually, folklorists such as Grimm and Adalbert Kuhn do say that alp go by other names such as mar(e) or trud (variant spelling of the Drude you mention). So even if not merged, there should be mutual reference among the three.  All three forms occur in the Münchener Nachtsegen, and probably are synonyms or quite nearly so.  In Alaric Hall's translation, one line reads  "alb's mother, trute and mar" and another line translated "Let the mare not oppress me". The original of the latter line is "Noc mich dy mare druche", so yes, mare does indeed drücken as in Alpdrück (Elf-pressure), contrary to what you state.  The current version of Alp (folklore) article sources too much from vampire references, so the information is flawed. --Kiyoweap (talk) 13:29, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Request 

message: Since deviations stream from one possesion excluding protective sixth senses thus incubus, azrael and hızır ali are separate entities according to turanic alewittenism.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.47.191.63 (talk) 19:18, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Succubi is evil 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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