Talk:Knights of Columbus/Archive 2

message: Nice edit, EKMichigan. That's better phrasing for that point in the article, IMHO.--SarekOfVulcan 16:37, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Strong right arm" 

message: I agree with the anon deletion: we don't need that level of detail in an encyclopedia.--SarekOfVulcan 04:16, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Particularly as the intro already states that membership is open to "practical Catholics."  The definition of what a practical Catholic does not need to be spelled out term by term - someone can go look the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or some such resource, if they need the specifics.DonaNobisPacem 06:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the wikifying, Sarek.DonaNobisPacem 07:02, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: NP. I figured it had to be an article, so I wanted to save the next person to come along the lookup effort. Suppose I could have posted a reply instead of changing yours, but it seemed more efficient.--SarekOfVulcan 07:40, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: So, what is a "practical Catholic"? How do you expect anyone who doesn't have extensive knowledge of Catholicism to know? This is a very weird part of the article and at the very beginning too. There at least needs to be some sort of link to an explanation if it isn't explained in the article. Theshibboleth 10:59, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

text: A "practical," or practicing Catholic is one who abides by all of the teaching of the Magisterium - ie, one who follows all dogmatic teachings of the Church (as are detailed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church).DonaNobisPacem 22:40, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

text: So much for not contributing any more over the holidays (that lasted what, 30 sec?) - I added the definition of practical Catholic after the comment by Theshibboleth, but I agree with Sarek and my earlier comments - it's too much detail to have, particularly in the intro.  Could we footnote it (if so, I would not be sure how)?  Or the fact that it's on the talk page is perhaps enough?DonaNobisPacem 06:57, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You do it with the  and  pair of tags. (I can never remember which goes where, but the footnote is the one that gives a carat pointing up.) If I can dig out my "Welcome to the KofC" brochure, I'll quote exactly what it says about practical Catholics, unless you beat me to it.--SarekOfVulcan 07:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There. How do you like that phrasing?--SarekOfVulcan 07:38, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I love indenting!  That's great Sarek - mighty impressed.  I think that the info provided is good, KofC supplied, and not mucking up the intro.  Excellent work!DonaNobisPacem 08:14, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Practical Catholics 

message: I just removed the reference in the article to the Knights of Columbus being an observer to the United Nations. Although the KofC is registered with the UN as an non-governmental organization , it is not on the list of non-member observers  -- perhaps the poster was mistaking the Knights of Columbus with the Knights of Malta. — Eoghanacht talk 14:31, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, ok - I just wikifed the link, I hadn't heard of them being an observer but I just wikified it anyway.  Thanks for correcting. JG of Borg 16:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The KofC and the UN 

message: I am going to suggest possibly listing the Knights under the list of Friendly Societies, and maybe add something to that effect in the main article.  By the way, so you know my POV, I WAS a member of the Knights of Columbus, and GK of my college council, and did a little bit of research about.  I am now a Mason, and I am not here to push a Masonic diatribe.  What I will suggest, is a look at Faith and Fraternalism (the name of the author escapes me right now).  The issues regarding sick benefits, death and burial benfits, and support for widows and orphans, would put the Knights more in line with the Friendly Societies that existed in the 1800's in the US (Oddfellows etc), than in direct opposition to the Masons, who did NOT offer those sort of supports for members.  I recognize that the accepted commentary is that "the Knights were made so Catholics wouldn't join the Masons," but that doesn't fit the facts of the lack of insurance companies, HMO's and paid sick time, which resulted in the creation of mutual benfit societies, many of which Catholics were forbidden to join.  The issues regarding Catholics being forbidden by the Church to become Masons is such a long and tedious one, with neither side really agreeing that the other side even has a valid POV, but it doesn't really answer the mail on what was happening with the Foresters, the Sarsfield Guards etc.--Vidkun 15:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion on terminology? 

message: Would it be worth mentioning somewhere that President John F. Kennedy was a Knight?  Also, I am confused about the section on Politics.  How is it that the KofC can claim to be unbaised toward any one candidate or party, yet invite Bush to speak at their annual convenion just months before the 2004 election.  It seems to me to be a clear-cut endorsement of the President's candidacy for a second term.  Perhaps I'm mistaken.  Anyone know how Anderson juxtaposed this event with the Knight's rules regarding this matter?
:The KofC invites the head of state of every country it operates in to come and address the annual supreme convention. Most of the time, they send a recorded message, but Bush decided to actually show up in 2004. His decision to show up was probibly politically motivated, but the decision to invite him was just normal operating procedure. Clinton sent eight video tapes, which were played to the annual conventions during his presidency, but he could have chosen to show up, if he wanted to. The same is true for the Governor-General of Canada, the President of the Philipines, and the President of Mexico, among others. Gentgeen 08:44, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a section for famous Knights...  I only know of a couple (listed), but a friend of mine knows several others.  I'll see what I can do to get them added to the list.  From what I've heard, all male Catholics on the Supreme Court are currently KOC members, but that's not verified...  Clint 08:15, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  JFK?  Bush? 

message: The squires are actually a part of (in that they are administered by) the KofC - so they should probably not be under "similar Organisations." DonaNobisPacem 05:18, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not actually aware of a Squirettes program - I didn't know anything, positive or negative, about them being formed, so I didn't remove it from the article.  Perhaps the KofC website could offer more info?DonaNobisPacem 23:12, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I understand, the Squirettes aren't officially condoned by Supreme but were tolerated due to the lack of Catholic Daughter youth organizations.  In light of the developing CDA youth groups, the Squirettes will probably fade out... Clint 08:10, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Squires 

message: I am not sure demoting the 4th degree to a subsection was a good move.  It seems to me (as a 4th degree Knight, but one not active in the assembly) that the 4th degree is distinct enough to merit its own section.
:I understand where you're coming from (as a fourth degree knight myself), but from the way I originally reworked that section of the page, it seemed better for organizational purposes to put the fourth degree under the other degrees. Clint 08:08, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fourth Degree 

message: I think we are getting close to the point when we can break off thed College Councils section into its own article.  Its not quite there yet, but I think it has potential.  Briancua 13:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  College Councils 

message: I alphabatized and legthened the list of famous Knights.  I included everyone in the K of C category, except minor politicians.  If it grows any longer I think we should move it into its own category.  Briancua 20:05, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  famous knights 

message: It was just a few months ago that we reached 1.7 milion members - I don't think we possibly could have reached 2 million members yet.  If we had, as a GK I'm sure I would have heard about it since I heard about the 1.7.  I like the clarification about the secret socity.  Briancua 02:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  members 

message: No book references, and two "endnotes". See WP:CITE, Highway Rainbow Sneakers 16:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Endonotes are another word for references. At current, you have 2 references. References are used to cite facts in an article. You have 2. Cheers, Highway Rainbow Sneakers 17:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Get more. Please read WP:CITE, Highway Rainbow Sneakers 20:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Failing 

message: What do you think about making the first sentance say "The Order of the Knights of Columbus" instead of just "The Knights of Columbus"?  On the disam page for order there is no mention of the type of Order we are, but the article refers to the KofC as an Order a number of times.
The section about priests observing is just incorrect. Clergy are subject to regular membership procedures, but out of respect for their ecclesiastical position, are permitted to undergo the very same rituals by process of observation. Is there a way to clarify this wording? Jim Miller 20:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top Paragraph 

message: I have seen programs on and read text about how Columbus might have had Jewish heritage or was a converted Jew. I'm not giving any credibility to these theories, but wouldn't that be ironic for the KoC? --ßottesiηi (talk) 19:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ironic? Hardly. Jesus was Jewish, after all...--SarekOfVulcan 22:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I never implied that the KoC was antisemitic. It's about a catholic organisation being based around a a man who was (maybe) a practicing Jew. -- ßottesiηi (talk) 23:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See my note above. :-)--SarekOfVulcan 03:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The whole of Christianity is based around a man who was a practicing Jew.Cravenmonket 15:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Columbus's Heritage 

message: "councils are prohibited from engaging in candidate endorsement and partisan political activity."  Is this because of a decision by the leadership council?  Or is this only practiced by U.S. councils in order to comply with U.S. tax law (i.e. non-profits that endose political candidates have their non-profit status revoked)? Lyrl 23:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political activities 

message: I moved this sentence from the lead here:
:Knights are known for their strong Catholicity and have been called the "strong right arm of the Church."
The first clause, besides using what seems to me an undefinable (at least in an encyclopedic way) adjective "Catholicity", is subjective, that is to say, not a neutral point of view. The second clause uses weasel words to support an unsourced quotation.  MarkBuckles 07:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: The Knights of Columbus is mentioned in [Anchorman] - should there be a pop culture reference section?EunuchOmerta 03:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anchorman 

message: I suggest this article might benefit from a disambiguation note distinguishing it from the United Kingdom Catholic organization "Knights of St Columba". 193.63.239.165 08:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be disinclined to support such a disambig if only because of similarity in name; a few International Alliance of Catholic Knights organizations are similar to "Columbus": St. Columbanus, St. Columba, St. Mulumba.  I think a link to any Knights of Saint Columba page under Similar organizations would suffice. --Derek 22:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguation needed? 

message: When I was GK of Mount Saint Mary's College and Seminary Council 1965, we had the distinct understanding that Notre Dame's council was not continous - that it lapsed during WWII.Helmar63 17:30, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notre Dame Council - longest continually running?