Talk:Blessing of same-sex unions in Christian churches

message: If this is an article on the status of blessing of same-sex unions in presumably ALL Christian churches, why does it read like an Anglican article?  Why does it exclude all mention of the majority of Christians?
Several improvements wich I would suggest for this article:
#The introduction should state that Christian Churches are divided on the issue.
#A terminology section is needed to decypher same-sex marriage, blessing, civil union etc. Even it is brief and mostly points the reader with such questions to other articles.
#A section is needed outlining the theological and other reasons some churches favor and some churches oppose same-sex unions.
#An outline of which churches whose practices are most favorable and least favorable to same-sex unions and those which are in between.
#Another section with the best available statistics on same-sex unions is also needed.
#At least a mention of some ecclesiastical divisions with pointers to relevant articles should also be included.
For the casual reader, this article raises more questions than it answers--okay for a homily, but not okay for an encyclopedia.  Vaquero100 00:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can do your best to help, Vaquero1000,--GLGerman 20:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that dividing the world into "favorable" and "unfavorable" is a false division. Churches may have nuances that prohibit such easy categorization. Perhaps we should just list all the churches like the denominational positions on homosexuality article but have it be called "List of Christian denominational positions on same sex marriage and same sex unions."MPS 15:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs for Improvement of this article

message: There appears to be no article that discusses the blessing of same-sex unions in non-Christian religions. Should this one be expanded to do so, or should a new, broader article be created? (Or am I just missing this article, which in fact already exists?)
DanB†DanD 20:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question, but isn't the answer that this should be discussed in the same sex union article, and perhaps gay marriage articles??? MPS 22:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not as far as I can see. Same-sex union is a disambiguation page. Same-sex marriage is overwhelmingly political in its focus (which I am trying to correct). Blessing of same-sex unions redirects to Blessing of same-sex unions in Christian churches. DanB†DanD 22:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  hmmm... you raise a good point. Maybe we should change the name of the article from Blessing of same-sex unions in Christian churches to Blessing of same-sex unions and have just a section on Christians. That might ruffle a few feathers but I would back you on it if you proposed a move vote. The other option is maybe create and article on Blessing of same-sex unions and list (with sources) other communities (religious communities?) that "bless" unions. I think this is a significant enough issue that I think you have wiggle room to be bold and create something that may be the 60% solution.  Go for it!!! MPS 22:10, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not a good idea, seperating the secular from the non.  If done, it better come with a warning label, reader beware!Thright (talk) 05:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Non-Christian blessings?

message: Eastern synod does not speak for the whole church, and the ELCIC has ruled against the local option.  Please see the ELCIC website for more info.  Thright (talk) 07:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thright, the fact that Eastern Synod "lost," as it were, doesn't mean that the events aren't noteworthy. Why are you so anxious to rewrite history? Carolynparrishfan (talk) 14:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: what I deleted said that the elcic supported the notion, in fact NO synod in the elcic supports ssb.  Sorry if you dont like the stand, but wiki needs to reflect the truth.  Take careThright (talk) 17:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  what it said: "In 2006, the Eastern Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, the Anglican Church of Canada's full communion partner through the Waterloo Declaration, voted to allow a "local option" provision similar to that in New Westminster, precipitating a dispute between the synod and the national church (which had previously rejected the proposal) as to where the authority to make that decision lay. In September of that year, the ELCIC's national church council ruled that authority to permit the local option lay with the National Convention.[22] The Council agreed to initiate further study on the issue and to bring forward another motion permitting the local option to the 2007 National Convention."  Given that the page is entitled "Blessing of same-sex unions in Christian churches", and in 2007 the national church rejected the eastern synods request, there is no room for the above on a page which is to outline churches which support ssb.  I am sure I can name all the churches in Canada that have had this discussion on this page, which in fact is not this pages purpose.  The fact is 2007 HAS PASSED and the results are in, NO ELCIC church supports ssb.  The above makes no mention of this, and the fact that it fail is evidence why it should not be on this page.  Yours in ethics, Thright (talk) 17:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thright, nowhere does the quote you provide suggest that the ELCIC as a body supports same-sex unions. This page is not only about denominations that support same-sex blessings, but to overview the positions of all major denominations, pro or con. And in fact there are ELCIC churches that support same-sex blessings. St Paul's, Guelph is one. The fact that 2007 has passed does not mean the past should not be written about. Or do you believe that National Socialism should be deleted because 1945 "HAS PASSED and the results are in." Carolynparrishfan (talk) 00:03, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi Carolyn,parrishfan, it is clear that you fail to understand the structure of the ELCIC.  Churches are not allowed to act alone, they must act according the the policies set forth by the national church.  Nowhere on the St.Paul's website does it say they support ssb.  All it says is that they are open to everyone.  Please brush up on your theology, there is a HUGE difference between ssb and being open.  It is clear that you do not understand the Lutheran Churches - ELCIC- stand and are acting because you want to push your personal ideas.  Please stop. I highly recommend you ask another Lutheran about the ELCIC policies.  Blessings Thright (talk) 00:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Hi Carolynparrishfan, I'm sorry if you think I was harsh, which I was not, in anycase this page is about ssb which again the ELCIC does not support.  When the ELCIC supports ssb then it can be added to this page.  The MAJORITY of ELCIC members are in disagreement with ssb and you are offending a lot of people. And please dont call me a vandal for telling you the truth.  I have acted in a respectful manner and ask for you to do the same.  Please, the this discussion is over, and I ask you to inquire - maybe Pasterdavid as he is an admin and member of wiki lutheranism - before acting alone on this one. Blessings Thright (talk) 01:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thright, do you understand that it doesn't matter whether the ELCIC supports SSBs or not, and that their position, as well as dissenting views from it within the ELCIC, are still relevant? Carolynparrishfan (talk) 01:09, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  this will be my last reply on the topic.  Carolynparrishfan, please ask for a third opinion.  Thank youThright (talk) 01:20, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canada 

message: * 31 May 2008: In an anglican church of Church of England in London a gay couple in a civil union was  blessed by english, anglican priest. Episcopalchurch: Gay priests' civil partnership blessed in London church   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.95.119.20 (talk) 21:53, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blessing in [[Church of England]] 

message: * 20 August 2008: In a  catholic church  in german town Wetzlar in Hesse a gay couple in a civil union was blessed by german, roman catholic priest Peter Kollas. Wetzlar ist part of Roman Catholic Diocese of Limburg in Germany. Frankfurter Rundscha:Dekan muss gehen wegen Schwulen-Trauung (german)   Hessischer Rundfunk: (german)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.95.119.20 (talk) 21:52, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blessing in [[Roman catholic]] church in Germany  

message: * United Protestant Church in Belgium ? In Belgium are same-sex marriages by state allowed. Maybe also blessing in United Protestant Church in Belgium. 82.149.186.216 (talk) 08:20, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blessing in Belgium 

message: Apart from same-sex blessings, there are also reports about gay eucharists, or liturgical ceremonies, in Anglican churches. There should probably information about this somewhere.   ADM (talk) 07:47, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Gay eucharists

message: * The section on Germany seems to be missing words conveying the situation within those churches.  98.218.241.48 (talk) 23:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right! +Angr 19:50, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germany 

message: They aren't mentioned in the article, and they're a major denomination which opposes gay marriage.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.169.230 (talk) 14:46, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they can be considered one of the "Evangelical/Fundamentalist Protestant denominations" listed under the header "Churches unfavorable to same-sex unions and marriage". There's no point in explicitly listing all such denominations. —Angr (talk) 15:59, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Southern Baptists? 

message: On May 10, 2011, the presbyteries voted 205—56, with three abstentions, to approve the constitutional change.
* Presbyterians Approve Ordination of Gay People 92.252.85.161 (talk) 11:14, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: that is a good news. 188.118.147.211 (talk) 10:24, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Presbyterian Church in USA

message: * Guardian:Church of Scotland votes to allow gay and lesbian ministers
Also Church of Scotland allows on its General Assembly in 2011 open homosexual ministers, who live in civil unions. 188.118.147.211 (talk) 10:24, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Church of Scotland 

message: In 2009, already british Quakers said "yes" to same-sex marriages and allowed blessings.
* Guardian:Quakers make the right decision 188.118.147.211 (talk) 10:24, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quakers 

message: In 2011, also the United Reformed Church in United Kingdom allowed the blessing of same-sex unions.
* United Reformed Church:United Reformed Church votes to host same-sex civil partnerships 47.64.255.139 (talk) 09:52, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  United Reformed Church 

message: In July 2011 Evangelical Church in Canada permits blessing of same-sex unions and allows open homosexual priests. 188.118.140.75 (talk) 07:47, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canada:Evangelical Church in Canada 

message: Methodists in UMC debate blessing of same-sex unions. The Methodist Church is “the last holdout” among mainline Protestant denominations, as the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church (USA), and the United Church of Christ all now ordain gay ministers and bless same-sex unions. 
* Advocate:ProGay Methodists prepare to challenge church 92.252.72.41 (talk) 11:44, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Debate in UMC 

message: The distinction between the blessing by churches of same-sex unions and same-sex marriages is getting increasingly blurred. It really depends on the law of the land - and some countries are upgrading unions to marriage. I think it makes sense therefore to rename this article to "Blessing of same-sex marriages and unions in Chritian churches". Any thoughts? Contaldo80 (talk) 09:38, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Contaldo, I know you waited 3 days, and this is a good faith proposal, but it fails WP:CRITERIA "Conciseness – Titles are concise, and not overly long." Why not take this to WP:RM. – Lionel (talk) 09:37, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't think how you would shorten it, though, as it's quite a specific issue? It's unsatisfactory as it stands as marriage is obviously not the same as a union. The other option is to split the article into two, but I think that's more confusing. I suppose we could try something like "Christian blessing of same-sex marriages and unions" (which actually has the same number of words as the current title) - does that help? How will bringing it to WP:RM help - will they come up with suggestions as to how to handle? Contaldo80 (talk) 10:07, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If there are no objections then I'm going to change the article name to: Christian blessing of same-sex marriages and unions. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:10, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-name? 

message: Multiple problems leading to serious NPOV issues.  One, these statements are made as if they are statements of fact.  They are, in fact, opinions.  Two, the article is "Blessing of same-sex unions in Christian churches".  Statements about churches that don't give their blessing are for a different article, not this one. -00:00, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Views of those who oppose same-sex unions and/or marriage

message: In Church of Iceland blessings of same-sex couples are allowed. 178.3.23.62 (talk)
:Source? Angr (talk) 17:24, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iceland 

message: Why are the Unitarian Universalists on the list? They aren't really a Christian denomination, so aren't they outside the scope of this article?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.198.128.5 (talk) 05:26, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unitarian Universalists? 

message: * Advocate.com:Church England plans blessing gay couples
In 2013, Church of England plans blessing of gay couples. 188.96.190.196 (talk) 03:08, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: More details would be welcome. When will this or did this begin?  Maybe something about the deliberations that led to this and the reactions of those who disagree.  The reactions of those who agree are probably more predictable and thus less necessary to include. Sterrettc (talk) 17:54, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Church of England]] in 2013 

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message: The section headed Theological differences between support and opposition was misleadingly titled. It implied that some sort of comparison of views would be presented. Insted, the section had a single sub-section and no other content. Having a section whose only content is a single subsection is poor layout in any case.
I have therefore renamed the subsection to Theological views of those who support same-sex unions and/or marriages, promoted it to a full level 2 section, and removed the header Theological differences between support and opposition. If anyone thinks this is unwise, the matter can be discussed here, with or without a revert.  DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 22:51, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section "Theological differences between support and opposition" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Blessing of same-sex unions in Christian churches. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304180228/http://www.ref-sg.ch/anzeige/projekt/111/218/21_70_fuerbittegottesdienste_fuer_personen_in_besonderen_lebenssituationen.pdf to http://www.ref-sg.ch/anzeige/projekt/111/218/21_70_fuerbittegottesdienste_fuer_personen_in_besonderen_lebenssituationen.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've noticed that the opening paragraphs do not define "blessing", and it appears that the term may be interpreted differently in the sections for different churches.  From what I can see, the term "blessing" in this article original must have referred to a ceremony inside a church that legitimizes or affirms a permanent cohabiting union between two people.  Such ceremonies are meant as a wedding-like ceremony for people who would otherwise not qualify for marriage (e.g. homosexuals in a country or church where homosexual marriage is not an option).
The word "bless" can, however, also simply mean to accept or to condone, and may not refer to holding a ceremony in which an ordained person legitimizes the relationship.  See, for example, how the opening sentence was change to read "blessing of same-sex unions and same-sex marriages", which may indicate that the author of that change thought that "blessing" here means to condone.
I therefore suggest that we define "blessing" in the opening paragraph.
* Do you agree with me that "blessing" in this article refers to whether churches have such ceremonies and/or wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples, and does not refer to simply acceptance of same-sex unions?
* Do you think the article should be specifically about wedding-like ceremonies, or should it rather be about the churches' acceptance of formalized same-sex unions (which, in many countries, are actually legal and/or regarded by the governments to be equal to marriage)? --leuce (talk) 15:22, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the definition of "blessing" 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:07, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: "* On May 11, 2022 again in more than 100 Roman-Catholic churches in Germany blessings of same-sex marriages were celebrated, for example in the Roman-Catholic cathedral in Magdeburg, and in Essen was first time a Roman-Catholic bishop with Ludger Schepers at place.Die Tagespost: Erster Bischof bei öffentlicher Segnung queerer Paare dabei, May 2022"
This paragraph makes no sense whatsoever. Kiltpin (talk) 11:57, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Makes no sense