Talk:Southern rock

message: I think someone should delete the paragraph titled notable songs.
First because it really misses notable songs and there are some that nobody would ever to expect
But mainly because it's only an opinion, nothing more, based an author tastes.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.51.15.20 (talk) 12:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable,what?

message: I've completed the cleanup requested of this article.   Wasted Time R 20:20, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: Discusion below copied from Talk:Country rock:
Is there any meaningful difference between "country rock" and Southern rock? Tuf-Kat 06:12, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
: Yeah.  Country rock is a lot more country.  Gram Parsons is country rock, Lynryd Skynyrd are Southern rock.  They don't sound all that similar.  Naturally there's a crossover : Little Feat, Commander Cody et al.  Country rock tends to be song and vocal based -- country songs with a rockier arrangement, Southern Rock are mainly rock songs with a countrified arrangement and harmony.  Southern rock thinks nothing of filling entire sides of a double album with instrumental jams (Hey, the Allman Brothers Band, this means YOU!)
Southern Rock is arguably a fusion of country rock with blues rock, with a lyrical emphasis on Southern culture. Of course, all three subgenres are diverse and tend to overlap. Heck, the Marshall Tucker Band was countrier than most of what gets played on country radio these days. Just my 2¢. Archola 01:03, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe all three of these "sub-genres" tended to split more by the late 70's. To me, "Country Rock" and "Southern Rock" are interchangeable. The modern belief about the difference between "Country" and "Southern" is that Southern is harder edged, while Country is lighter. Another argument I've heard is that Country Rock is "Southern Rock that's not from the South." However, in the beginning days of Poco (A Georgia band whom I consider quintessential Southern Rock, and the start of it all), it was known as "Roots Rock." Roots Rock purposely avoided the psychadelic Frisco/Liverpool sound of the time, and is a mixture of country, blues, and Rock n' Roll. California bands CCR, CSNY, The Byrds, & The Grateful Dead all jumped in on it, and Roots Rock was born. I honestly cannot tell the difference between Country Rock and Southern Rock (and differentiating types of music due to their amp volume is ridiculous), so I just refer to it all as "Southern Rock". They all jam the same, and are just as easy to get into. Rock on! X24actor (talk) 21:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Blues Rock, Country Rock and Southern Rock

message: Do 'Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers' deserve to be listed in this article? It sounds like Southern rock to me and he is from Gainesville, FL.
: I'd say not - he shows trace influences, but only in random moments and I'm not sure how influential he's been in turn (on that subgenre, I mean). I think it's probably a case of his being from the South, so his music is accidentally Southern-flavored at times, but it's not his 'thing' to do Southern Rock.
: No. Petty is hard to categorize, and he is featured in Heartland rock, but Southern rock is a real stretch.  Wasted Time R 23:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I consider Tom Petty quintessential Southern Rock. My family hails from the south, so I know a lot about the Rock and Roll culture. His music is certainly not accidentally Southern-flavored. He's a rebel and proud of it, but he also happens to be a hippie. His music definately has a distict Florida sound to it, and when you mix Southern Rock with Florida & hippies, you get Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. There was a period in the late 80's/early 90's when you could argue that a lot of his hits lack that basic "southernness". But overall, Southern roots music is his thing. Just ask him. Even if it's hard to categorize Tom Petty, it's easy to accept his music as Southern Rock since that's what most of it sounds like. X24actor 20:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Just a thought, while I do agree that there is definiely a southern rock vibe in his music and would consider him at the very least influetial to the southern rock genre, Tom Petty was originally considered punk rock... funny I know... but this is the genre his music was considered at the time, look it up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ol R3D (talk • contribs) 03:29, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Yes. Petty is from Florida and was influenced by the greats of the genre even as he was their contemporary. As a guitarist myself, I can confirm there are riffs in the Heartbreakers' musical phrasing that could only ever occur to a southerner's ear. You could think of it as being similar to spoken memetics in which people from one part of the nation say "pop" while others from different parts say "soda". Likewise, southerners tend to approach musical phrasing with unique trills and composition which is very uniquely their own, easily "brand identifiable" to anyone who is familiar with the genre. Tom Petty's style was southern rock with 80's new wave, and late 70's punk flavoring sparsely drizzled in. As he got older, his southern roots overshadowed his other stylistic influences by a wide margin.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.8.138 (talk) 13:52, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tom Petty 

message: DaT is stated as a southern metal band, but they have no wiki page and the link sends you to a King Of The Hill episode... Yeah... (-Kid. 17:03, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Contrary to Baby which has a Wikipedia entry and is not included in this article ... 83.85.143.141 (talk) 20:49, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death and Texas 

message: I think the sections should stay, I'll clean it up a little, remove dead links and bands that aren't of sourthern metal or even southern rock influence. If you want to add another band you think would fit the genre make sure that they actually do fit the genre. (-Kid. 12:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metal Genre 

message: Is it me or is "southern metal" a completely original neologism? A quick Google search brings mostly results concerning metal spinners, choppers, fabricators, etc. I would consider deleting the entire section, for there are no reliable sources whatsoever that attest the existence and notability of that movement. Zouavman Le Zouave 15:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Southern Metal = OR? 

message: Removed the metal section, it's original research and is really off topic here. Also removed the song section, it was just a list of random songs. If you can't add something tot he prose that's a pretty good sign it's not needed in the article. Ridernyc (talk) 02:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean up

message: this confuses me
southern metal has been redirected here, with no mention of southern metal on this page
and while the old southern metal article was poorly written, its not reason to completely
purge the genre from wikipedia JEMdev (talk) 03:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see southern hardcore / metalcore is similarly going to be buried on wikipedia (especially due to modern controversy over what is and isn't hardcore / metalcore anyway...). Southern Hardcore and Southern Metal should probably be grouped together since in the end there is a lot of similarity, while they are both very distinct from original Southern Rock itself. The topic is probably worthy of adding some 80s Sludge and (the faster non-doomy types of) Stoner Metal roots since this would go some way to explaining why these genres exist and are so closely related. (come to think of it the stoner metal/ rock page is not very helpful in itself)  Harshmustard (talk) 22:24, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge of southern metal? 

message: Copied over from my talkpage:--SabreBD (talk) 20:23, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia completely relies on verifiable sources, we cannot really expect readers to do their own research on the bands: the sources need to be evidence on the page. This article is, frankly, not a good example of how that should be done, but a more desirable pattern can be seen in places like Punk rock and Rock music. It might be acceptable to simply find a source that states the hardcore origins of this sub-genre, or to demonstrate it for the bands. But the source must meet the normal requirements of all citations. If this is accurate then finding a source or sources should not be difficult. Other editors may also wish to comment.--SabreBD (talk) 20:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Source for what?? I think you're all missing the point of the edit. All I'm adding is the genre of the bands listed, **I'm not elaborating my theories on the origins of any genres**. It comes down to "southern rock has influenced some metal and some hardcore bands: here is a list of some hardcore and some metal bands influenced by Southern Rock". The existing article effectively says "southern rock has influenced metal: here is a list of some bands, many of which no-one would actually call metal". I never said hardcore was an influence on Southern Metal; these bands are not all part of the same genre. I completely get the need for sourcing claims but this is utter nitpicking. The casual reader, unfamiliar with metal or hardcore is not likely to need to fact-check the statement that some of the bands mentioned below are metal, others hardcore. Either they will know the difference or look at the band's pages if they're unfamiliar with them. Sourcing this line to some outside article (in fact: an article per band, that hopefully talks specifically about their genre origins and influences at some point over its duration) is just plain ridiculous considering what the actual line is informing the reader of.Harshmustard (talk) 22:19, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

text: To hopefully help: as an example; Every Time I Die are a hardcore band, one with influences from metal and southern rock. From this it doesn't follow that I'm implying southern metal itself has hardcore roots. ETID typically fall outside of the actual Metalcore genre in any case... Clutch, likewise, have incorporated hard rock/ groove rock/ southern rock and less extreme heavy metal influences but would not really be classed as a metal band. Hope this helps?Harshmustard (talk) 22:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Added reference to the label page of one of the bands listed that states clearly that they are a hardcore band; hopefully this is sufficient for anyone that would be concerned about the change from "metal" to "metal and hardcore"Harshmustard (talk) 22:58, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Got a warning for this.. even though the topic was started by me under a different title on SabreBD's talk page and it's all stated clearly here...Harshmustard (talk) 22:58, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment on Southern Rock's influence on Metal and Hardcore

message: This is in need of a much needed clean up, yet again. Mainly organization... as well as at least SOME clarification as to what Southern Metal is, or is not. Also, I'm thinking we need to delve more into the influences the genre has/had on Sludge, Stoner, etc... I will start some of the changes myself within the next month or so... Please help however you can... and REMEMBER, reliable sources are your friends.
*ALSO please note the List of Southern rock bands page, AS WELL AS the discussion notes there... as they are directly related to the discussions happening over here... 
Yours Southernly,
Ol Red33 (talk) 18:09, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am working on a clean up at the moment. I will do my best to incorporate these points and and if there are any others from editors now is a good time to post them.--SabreBD (talk) 19:07, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: YET ANOTHER CLEAN UP

message: Is the "s" capitalized or not? This article has it both ways...
23haveblue (talk) 13:24, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Southern rock or southern rock

message: Fans of each of the bands listed in the first paragraph should listen closely to their music and check the Wikipedia pages. I'm about to remove ZZ Top from the list/page, as they're not remotely close in origins or style, going both by WP's page for the band and countless hours enjoying both Southern rock in general & ZZ Top's full discography -- I suspect they're not the only ones wrongly included. —Xyzzy☥the☥Avatar 00:04, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Southern rock" bands that aren't southern rock 

message: The first paragraph of the article contains the following sentence:
:Although the origin of the term Southern rock is unknown, "many people feel that these important contributors to the development of rock and roll have been minimized in rock's history."Brant, Marley. Southern Rockers: the roots and legacy of Southern rock. New York: Billboard Books, 1999, p. 22
This is an oddly phrased sentence for two reasons: 
#The term "Southern rock" obviously comes from the words "Southern" and "rock". It's not a genre name for which people would be wondering about its origin (as opposed to, say, "zydeco" or "ska").
#There is no antecedent for the phrase "these important contributors". At this point in the article, no people have been mentioned. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:33, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  First paragraph