Talk:Dynamic logic (modal logic)

message: OK, I have to admit I have no idea what this article is talking about. (Though regarding comments about fuzzy logic, I can say it doesn't seem to be like it at all.) We need some more about the implications of this and how it's applied and all that. Something like "The key idea is that programs can be represented by means of an algebra of actions, each of whose elements determine two dual modalities: action a gives a 'box' modality [a], and a diamond modality <a>" reads to me like, "gibber gibber gibber blah algebra blah gibber gibber [a] gibber <a>". :) - Furrykef 00:01, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I rewrote the article:it's not exactly didactically ideal, but at least it's correct, where what I replaced was mostly nonsense.  All references to fuzzy logic were deleted.  I might try and improve it, but it's far from an editing priority for me. ---- Charles Stewart 00:58, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Right, but at least you don't believe it to be something other than what it is.  OK, I've put it on my reminders list, so I will get around to it eventually. ---- Charles Stewart 09:37, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the heck is this? 

message: I've been working in Silicon Valley in the field of logic and circuit design, for CPUs and later, ASICs, since 1992.  I've talked with people on at least seven different full-custom CPU design teams.  I've never head anyone refer to dynamic logic (as it relates to circuits) as "clocked logic".  I may have seen this usage in the literature, however.  Didn't Svennson refer to his latches as "clocked CMOS"?
I think "Clocked logic" is pretty nonstandard, and "dynamic logic" would be better used as the title of the page relating to circuit design.  Furthermore, my guess is that there are at least thousands of circuit designers who are familiar with the term "dynamic logic" as it relates to circuits, and use it at least once a month.  (Basis: there are at least 3000 people at ISSCC every year, many more that can't go for various reasons, and everyone I've talked to there knows what dynamic logic is at it applies to circuits.)  I highly doubt there are anywhere near that many researchers in AI who use the phrase "dynamic logic"... there's just not enough economic activity there to pay all those people.
So I think this "clocked logic" article should be renamed "dynamic logic", and this article currently at "dynamic logic" should be renamed something else again.
But I don't know what to rename this article.  Maybe "Dynamic logic (AI)". Iain McClatchie 6 July 2005 03:20 (UTC)
To get a more quantitative idea of how the term "Dynamic Logic" is used in the real world, why not type it (in double quotes) to Google?  I tried this and found that of the first 40 hits, 20 of them were to the meaning used in the article.  A number of hits referred to companies with that name, one in West Lothian doing monitoring and control, another in the advertising business.  The remaining few referred to digital circuits.  Although AI is one area in which dynamic logic has been applied, it was originally intended as a logic for program verification, and the recent book "Dynamic Logic" by Harel, Kozen, and Tiuryn brings that perspective to the subject. Vaughan Pratt  23:07, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right.  There are far more references to this non-circuit-design dynamic logic.  I still doubt the mathematical idea is more common among people than the circuit design idea, but the math folks have won the 'net.  Now I think the "clocked logic" article should be renamed "dynamic logic (circuit design)", and that this "dynamic logic" article should be renamed "dynamic logic (mathematics)". Iain McClatchie 00:18, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I took the liberty to rename this page - I'll also rename clocked logic to "dynamic logic (digital logic)". I hope noone gets pissed. Fresheneesz 20:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rename this page something else

message: Needs fixing to attribute earlier edits . Tijfo098 (talk) 14:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It was fixed by admin User:CBM. Tijfo098 (talk) 21:16, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  2006 cut & paste move 

message: At the end of the Remark in the random assignment section, it is stated as a fact (based on a "proof" by Dijkstra) that the random assignment program x:=? is impossible.  The considerable discussion in the article Unbounded nondeterminism gives various frameworks (Turing machines, actors, etc.) in which the question of its impossibility could be decided either way.
When the framework is dynamic logic itself, if the type of x is a finite domain (e.g. Bool, or more generally the integers mod 2n for some natural number n) the impossibility argument clearly fails.  If on the other hand x is of type Nat, i.e. arbitrary precision, then the dynamic logic program x:=0; (x:=x+1)* implements x:=? (though not if x is of type Int).  The alleged impossibility of the program x:=? for any infinite domain then entails the impossibility of *, since x:=0 and x:=x+1 are surely possible.  Comments?
(As the inventor of x:=? [1976] I prefer to recuse myself from judgment on that question.  Clinger's point at the end of the section Unbounded_nondeterminism#Arguments_for_dealing_with_unbounded_nondeterminism, about what might be more clearly stated as the possibility of a finitely-branching tree with infinitely many leaves all finitely far from the root, bears on this.  Dijkstra's "proof" would appear to have overlooked this possibility.)  Vaughan Pratt (talk) 20:40, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I've changed this remark to the paragraph "Dijkstra claimed to show the impossibility of a program that sets the value of variable x to an arbitrary positive integer.[1]  However, in dynamic logic with assignment and the * operator, x can be set to an arbitrary postive integer with the dynamic logic program a \equiv x:=0; (x:= x+ 1)*: hence we must either reject Dijkstra's argument or hold that the * operator is not effective." — Charles Stewart (talk) 12:05, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possibly fallacious remark about random assignment 

message: In the axiom section, we read "the two inference rules modus ponens (\vdash p and {\displaystyle \vdash p\to q} implies {\displaystyle \vdash q\,}) and necessitation (\vdash p implies {\displaystyle \vdash [a]p\,})," and in the derived rules section, we see the notation "b\to [k]b\vdash b\to [k*]b\,\!".  If I'm not mistaken, "\vdash p implies \vdash q" and "p \vdash q" mean the same thing, but I confess I puzzled over the two distinct expressions.  It would be nice if we settled on one or the other throughout the article.
I won't make the change because I have the nagging feeling that maybe there's a difference between the two statements that I'm not getting. Phiwum (talk) 23:21, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor inconsistency in syntax