Talk:English Poor Laws

message: There's a request for a page on the "New Poor Law of 1834" on the requests page. Should that be redirected to this page or should there be a separate page covering the Poor Law Amendment Act in more detail? - Cherry blossom tree 13:03, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requests 

message: Does anyone have anything to add on the poorhouses that existed into the 1940's? matturn 11:17, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 20th Centuary Poorhouses

message: A short article on Poor Law Unions was set up without links to this one. I have moved the few additional facts and links (which are good ones) into this, as it makes more sense to describe Unions in the context of the Poor Law overall, and redirect on the term. Ditto (Guardians). 217.206.130.66 17:39, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirect

message: Might it be an idea to create a separate Workhouses page detailing condition in UK workhouses and in similar systems else where in the world instead of having Workhouses link to this article?
:I agree, so long as I don't have to do it. Also, please sign posts by using "~~~~" Cutler 00:43, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would like to second this idea.  The Workhouse and they're associated institutions played a major part in the UK welfare system prior to 1945 and this article doesn't do it justice.  S.Skinner 19:56, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Support I agree that this article does not do justice to the Workhouses or the local Unions. Scope needs to be made to indicate where the Workhouses were in the UK, the parishes they covered and their government. It could also cover the 19th century literature illustrating the different uses, fears etc. such as Charles Dickens and Henry Mayhew. DonBarton 14:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There definitely should be a separate workhouse page. There is a really good website  on this subject--Moonlight Mile 00:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Strong support It is definitely a good Idea to have a separat page. If anyone is good at german, de-wikipedia has a page on 'Arbeitshäusen' a lot of which is about english workhouses! I could help with translation. Englishnerd 17:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have created a separate entry but it needs expanding (a lot!).--Moonlight Mile 00:53, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separate Workhouses entry 

message: The article should probably explain the term "outdoor relief" or link the term to an article that explains it. --Jim Henry | Talk 20:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've linked outdoor relief, which is a redirect to social security. I'm not sure how well that article covers the grounds, to be honest. See that talk page for relevant thoughts. --Cherry blossom tree 21:28, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Good stuff all round there. The article Outdoor relief still redirects to social security (indoor relief doesn't exist.) Maybe both of them should be redirected to Differences between indoor and outdoor relief (or something with a less clumsy title) which would contain that section? I imagine it is relevant in other contexts too, so having it in its own article seems a good idea. Thoughts?--Cherry blossom tree 23:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Outdoor relief" 

message: I have inserted information on the Poor Laws in Ireland.  Can someone do the same for Scotland?  This article should be about the entire UK, not just England and Wales.
::I know very little about either the Scottish Poor Laws or the Irish Poor Laws but they are sufficently different to the system in England and Wales to warrent their own articles. Francium12 (talk) 16:32, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Scotland and Ireland

message: How about splitting it between the 1601 Law and the 1830s Amendment Act?
The removal of the 1601 and 1834 Acts has damaged this article beyond repair.  The 1834 article requires the background from 1780 on to make sense, the introduction to this section beoongs with the 1601 Act, and the material on the end of the Poor Law belongs after the 1834 section.  This must be reverted.  But the damage done to the article by inappropriate editing is now so extensive that it would require acres of work.  Is there a short way of doing it?
*Quite right, this article is very messy. Although the two Poor Laws do need some historical background to make sense, we don't keep messy articles merged to to so. One could argue the Cold War ghas its background in WW2, but they aren't on the same page. The 1601 and 1834 Poor Laws should be on different pages, and the main 'Poor Law' replaced with a summary of the two.
I suggest we have the following pages:
# Poor Law - A summary and disambiguation.
# Poor Law - 1601-1834 - Covers the introduction of the Poor Law and its history to 1834
# Poor Law - 1834-1948
I think that would be cleaner and less messy. Paj.meister 08:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This article is messy

message: I'm pretty sure that the brief summary in this section is wrong but I don't know enough about the subject to rewrite it.  Perhaps someone else can?
You are correct.  That is because the article has been hopelessly corrupted  and someone has stuffed the relevant information into the article on 1601.
:Is it even viable to rescue this article through a reversion? Yue.san 18:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor relief before 1601 

message: I have created the category Poor Law to group together a few articles in one place. 172.143.110.31 23:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:Poor Law]]

message: Alcock complained, in 1752, that "these marks of distinction have had but little effect, and for that Reasons, I suppose, have been almost everywhere neglected."
I think this needs to be cited, so I have added a tag to the Act of 1601 section.  A link to the appropriate (author's) article, or at least some clarification of the quote's origin would be helpful.
--Yue.san 18:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is Alcock? 

message: "Before the English Reformation it was considered a Christian duty to care for the sick and needy"
This is really a very anti-Protestant statement - and it's followed by another: "the break with Rome some of this attitude was lost"
It gives a reference which leads to a page by "Marjie Bloy" of the National University of Singapore. The reference must be to this statement: "After the Reformation and the establishment of the Church of England, many of the old values and moral expectations disappeared so it became necessary to regulate the relief of poverty by law" (http://www.victorianweb.org/history/poorlaw/elizpl.html). Incidentally, Christians in Singapore are almost exclusively Catholic.
So, OK, there's a reference. But Marjie gives no reference herself for this statement, which is being used in this paragraph to give a very negative impression of Protestantism.
It could easily be seen that with the advent of Protestantism in England, Poor Laws were enacted out of a new found sense of social duty.
This view that Marjie gives, and is used here, is far from the conventional one, and I'm removing it.
If anyone feels differently, please add a good reliable reference.
The full sentence being removed: "Before the English Reformation it was considered a Christian duty to care for the sick and needy. With the break with Rome some of this attitude was lost which meant that there needed to be increasing legislation in order that 'deserving poor' should be cared for."
Deipnosopher 22:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The argument that traditional forms of charity went with the break with Rome is the conventional as argued here    Francium12 (talk) 16:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor relief before 1601 

message: I have nominated this article for good article status. It has been improved significantly from a year or so ago when it appeared to be trying to cover 500+ years of history in a single page. The splitting was a little messy but we got there in the end Francium12 (talk) 16:35, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article nominee

message: The GA reviewer has stated his willingness to pass the article on my talk page (User talk:Francium12). Thank you to everyone who helped get this to GA status.  Francium12  21:20, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article pass

message: The page doesn't actually say, I think, until some way down, what poor laws actually did. Can the writers please make this clearer in the introduction? In a number of places I think it's the same - when going through the historical acts, there's a tendency to not be specific about what the Acts actually provided for poor people, what they actually established, funding, etc, etc. Otherwise not a bad article at all! Wikidea 16:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "The Act aimed to reduce the burden on rate payers and can be seen as an attempt by the Whig government to win the votes of the classes enfranchised by the Second Reform Act." Does this sentence actually mean to refer to the Great Reform Act? Wikidea 17:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarity 

message: I see no mention of the monasteries here.  Was the lack of charitable support for the poor from religious orders not a reason why the need for the poor law was perceived when it was?  Deipnosophista (talk) 15:54, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Mentioned in the Tudor Poor Law section Ulcerspar12 (talk) 12:57, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reformation 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Content overlaps Rathfelder (talk) 07:43, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Poor Law policy after the New Poor Law]] 

message: Less content here than in the main article Rathfelder (talk) 07:44, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Decline and abolition of the poor law system]] 

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