Talk:Meissen/Archive 1

message: ß is not an Umlaut, strictly speaking
--Yak 07:14, May 12, 2004 (UTC)
I suggest to replace it with ss if some people cannot read the Umlaut. NetguruDD
"Meißen, (or 'Meissen' according to the now-standard conversion of the German letter 'ß')"
There is no such standard conversion. Writing 'ss' for 'ß' is an alternative, where 'ß' is not avaiable, so writing both versions in this article is actually a good idea, but the reason is bogus. It's true, that some things in German ortography regarding to the 'ß' have changed. 1.) In Switzerland you can use 'ss' instead of 'ß' since many years, but Meißen is not in Switzerland. 2.) According to the actual spelling rules 'ß' has been replaced by 'ss' after _short_ vowels. 2.a) This is not the case here, because 'ei' isn't spelled short. 2.b) The rules actually don't take effect on names at all.
In addition to the use of "Meissen" as an reading/writing-help to those who don't know the 'ß' it is used in capital letters (MEISSEN) and smallcaps, because there is no uppercase 'ß'. Some local companies also use the spelling "Meissen" (especially and most known: the porcelain manufactory), but it's a part of their company name and not the city's official spelling.
As this is the English, not the German, Wikipedia, the spelling should be "Meissen".  Mark O'Sullivan 11:17, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure about that. We spell most foreign words with foreign letters, if that's the original spelling, e.g.: Düsseldorf, Bogotá, Rømø. It makes it easier if one doesn't have to remember two spellings, and with Unicode and that little "insert" box under the edit box in Wikipedia it's really no trouble. --Chl 13:40, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, myself I don't spell Rome "Roma", or Munich "München", or Dublin "Baile Átha Clíath", or Cairo "al-Qahira" in Arabic script, or Beijing in Chinese characters.  If people don't know how to pronounce "ß", it helps them (even if they're not reading out loud) to use the conventional English form.  Mark O'Sullivan 17:48, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Here Here. This lunacy must stop. My 1st language is English. I'm trying to learn German so I'm sympathetic to German spelling. But this is an ENGLISH encyclopedia. There is no "ß" in English. I am not offended by the fact that German-speakers call my country "Australien". I'm guessing that Irishmen are not upset that the same people call their country (in German) "Irland". Why do they insist I call Cologne, Koln? (And the capital of China is Peking, whatever the Chinese want to call it in Chinese). This issue will be the death of Wikipedia. Avalon 00:34, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur with the above, which is policy. Septentrionalis 01:43, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As do I. And this is coming from someone who has extensive German ancestry and a great love for Germany. Charles 04:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

text: This article has for almost all its history been at Meißen. This is in line with the general practice on Wikipedia. If anybody believes that there is a reason to deviate from that practice here then please take that up on WP:RM. Stefán Ingi 06:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meißen/Meissen 

message: As a non-germanic American born citizen I think it's disgusting that the real name of this town is not being used, and in it's place an exonym is used. I think it clearly illustrates American ethnocentricity as well as underscoring my personal belief that wikipedia is devolving into pure ochlocracy. When allowed Latin/German characters can be found in wikipedia. For example Führer or Federweißer, take special care to note the "ß" in that last one, it isn't an "ss." I respectfully ask that the artcle be renamed. Naufana:Talk 02:52, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: wikipedia should only use exonyms as a last resort

message: Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
#Support as nominator. -- Evertype·✆ 07:54, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: This section is to collect information on how this name is spelled in major English-language sources.  If anyone has access to additional encyclopedias, please feel free to add to this list. --Elonka 21:15, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Name as it appears in English-language encyclopedias

message: If the outcome of this vote should be inconclusive, then that would mean there is no consensus in either direction. Would that not mean that the article should be moved back to Meißen (where it had been for ever) from "Meissen" [sic], since no consensus was mustered for that move? --Stemonitis 06:54, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This move proposal is contrary to policy. Unless there is consensus to override WP:UE: If a native spelling uses different letters than the most common English spelling (eg, Wien vs. Vienna), only use the native spelling as an article title if it is more commonly used in English than the anglicized form, it should not be done. Septentrionalis 20:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The move proposal here is an attempt to build a consensus, and so is by no means against policy; the previous move, one without consensus, might have been (I neither know nor particularly care). The distinction between "English spelling", "anglicised name" and so on are difficult in this case, and must not be over-simplified. Other -ss- proponents have argued elsewhere that this is not a spelling issue, merely a typographical one, and since Wikipedia is not paper, our typographic conventions need not match those used in other encyclopædias. It is all less simple than it might seem at first glance. --Stemonitis 07:48, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A procedural question 

message: The condition that there is no English name is meant for places so obscure that there is no clear record of English usage on the subject, like Villanders (or Villandro) in the South Tyrol. To say otherwise is to suggest the absurdity that the French have a name for London (see fr:Londres) and the Germans do not (see de:London). Septentrionalis 20:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: English names