Talk:Hollow (Bleach)/Archive 1

message: I have seen "Plus" used alot when talkign about spirits that are not Hollows...where does this comes from? The official manga translates them as "Wholes", which makes alot more sense when they other type of spirit is a "Hollow". I'm not saying "Plus" is incorrect, just that I am confused. I have never seen it said that way before. (I am sorry if my English is not very accurate. It is not my first language.)
:They are called Plus in the Japanese manga (i.e. not some Japanese word meaning Plus, but the English word Plus in Japanese letters). We may actually change it to Whole someday, I think it depends on how it will be translated in a future English anime dub (if any). -- Y Ynhockey (Talk) Y 04:25, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Plus?

message: Who thought of this name? Is it official? If we're going to use something English, I suggest Allankar (the first fan translation). Unless Arrancar is official of course. -- Ynhockey 08:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Arrancar?

message: I'm surprised no-one's caught this yet (myself included) but the paragraph
"Given that the closest thing we have yet seen to an arrancar bankai is Ichigo's (he's more 'along the line' from shinigami at one end to hollow at the other than any other character who has yet released bankai) and that Ichigo's bankai, Tensa, is a massive compression of his power rather than the 'normal' shinigami's tremendous expansion then it seems likely that any Arrancar which achieves bankai would also share some compressive element to the ban form, and certainly not the shinigami's large-scale offensive form."
is totally unconfirmed speculation in my opinion. I'm removing it, if someone can give me some references to confirm this idea they can feel free to re-add it. Editors, please be on the lookout for anything else of this nature. --Tjstrf 01:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original Research 

message: Anyone else feel that the Day of the Dead should be mentioned as a possible source of inspiration? The similarities between the grotesque Hollow masks and those used in the Mexican celebration sure warrant at least a passing reference, along with the computer game Grim Fandango as well if we could get away with it :) -- Adahn 07:56, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are welcome to add this information as long as you make it clear that it's not a fact that it was an inspiration, but a likely speculation. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 17:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Día de Muertos 

message: An anon added "and Portuguese" after "Spanish" in one case in this article.  That isn't incorrect, but the languages are so similar in many cases that I think it goes without saying, so I reverted it. --Anaraug 16:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portuguese 

message: Someone wrote, "In the prototype of Bleach hollows retain human features.", but I'm not sure exactly what they mean, and it doesn't exactly sound verifiable.  For now, I'm chaging the wording, but I'll google around for it, and delete it if I can't find it.  --Anaraug 04:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kubo Tite originally drew a one-shot manga, a sort of pitch for Bleach.  It's not uncommon with manga, like how many TV shows start as pilots.  (Kentaro Miura did the same for Berserk.)  The characters and story were essentially the same, but certain designs and plot points weren't as refined.  I have a copy of the fan-scanlation floating around my hard drive somewhere and I seem to recall it being published in a past issue of Viz's Shonen Jump. -- Son Goharotto 18:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "In the prototype of Bleach hollows retain human features." 

message: Since the chapters are revealing the Espadas little by little now (Grimmjow and most recently Yammi was revealed to be one too) I think the article be made a list when more have been revealed just like in the hollow abilities. i'm waiting for other people's opinions.--Chemicalist 20:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I think the only list should be in Characters in Bleach series, all the info that's repeated here should be removed, unless it's important for this particular article. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arrancar - Espada 

message: Eek! This is terrible. Wasn't it decided to merge into Characters in Bleach series? In any case, the whole point of the merger was to eliminate all unnecessary data. I will soon trim each character, but IMO it was unwise to just dump all the info info this article. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:25, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No kidding. Actually, even if we insert them back into the main character article, it will still be a substantial length increase. I was planning on proposing we move them all to Hollow characters in Bleach series (do something similar with the other races as well) this afternoon (I'm on lunch break right now) and trimming them there. How does that sound? --tjstrf 19:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I just read through the first two characters and realized how useless most of the info was. I have therefore removed it (and will likely do the same for those other arrancar). If you disagree, we can surely reach a middle ground. Hollow characters in Bleach series sounds like a good idea, even though it is a great excuse for anons to insert blow-by-blow info on each arrancar once a new chapter comes out. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you on removing the padding, as well as the uselessness of having blow-by-blow information added every week to every character. (Especially since it is generally speculative and often incompletely refactored after the new new info comes out). I'm not sure about the name though, my suggestion is a bit wordy, and also sounds like we are describing "characters who have no innards in the Bleach series" (which I suppose we are, if by innards we mean hearts, it still sounds dumb though.) --tjstrf 20:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree that most of the information was futile, but I don't think this radical deletion was very right. Every information left was concerning just the appearance of the Character and what their Zanpakutou can do. So, I took the liberty to readd (or just add) some of the deleted information, I think they are, in fact, relevant. But I still think would be better create a "Minor Arrancar" article in "Characters in Bleach" category. So we could leave the relevant information without making this article immense and we could keep the images. - Access Timeco 23:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the reason I nominated those articles for deletion, there just isn't much useful information for these characters. I don't think even their apprearance should be elaborated on (just a quick explanation will suffice). The zanpakuto however is important. By the way, please don't take offense in that I reverted your edit, most of that information was very POVish and some speculative. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 23:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok, but about the zanpakuto information, there is the Zanpakutou article and all the information about them are there. About the information about the personalitys, I think they are more than POV, considering they are vital to any character profile, but it's ok. I deleted Margera's image 'cause doesn't make sense a image of him and any of the other characters (specially if we think that, until this time, just Nakim had a participation inferior to Margera's one) - Access Timeco 23:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most fans seem to think Wonderwice will be more important than the others. If he survives this invasion, he'll deserve an article, so we shouldn't have the image deleted just yet. --tjstrf 00:56, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The image will not be deleated. Just will not be on the article. And what Wanderweiss can be is unsure, even if almost sure. As far as we know, Luppi can still be alive - Hiken in bf said the word Yammy used can be translated as dead of defeated or a bunch of other things -, but we can't take that as base. = Access Timeco 01:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger

message: I have concluded that Wonderwice is a logical equivalent to Wandaawaisu. I know I did this unilaterally, so feel free to bash this conclusion. However, Wanderweiss is wrong because it would be Wandaavaisu at best, possibly even Wondaawaisu (er -> aa is also British). -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no objections, but then I don't read Japanese either. It's not like any of our other names reflect common usage among the fans, and no one seems to complain. --tjstrf 20:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like this spelling.  The character appears to be a german/dutch/swedish stereotype with the blond hair and freckles, so the german Wanderweiss seems more appropriate. Probably Kubo didn't know/remember that germans pronounce w as v with such a spelling. Most Americans don't even know/remember. - Wickning1 15:05, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We can always move it once they spell his name out for us on a title page. --tjstrf 15:35, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Where? I've seen three different spoilers so far, and I still haven't didn't even see any mention of him. Nemu 19:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have yet to see that either. Still, it won't be the first time we were wrong... and we weren't the only ones who thought he was an Espada either. Source? --tjstrf 19:04, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true. The spoiler picture shows the ten of them and he isn't there. Ulquiorra seems to be number one or five(though it's still speculation). Nemu 19:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

text: OK then, I guess that's sufficient confirmation. (Also, I can barely wait for the scan on this one.) --tjstrf 01:38, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wonderwice

message: Access Timeco: What does that mean? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 00:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, didn't saw that. What I mean is talking about power levels is not very good, once it's more POV. And we know that the Gillian Arrancar have different power levels: Edorado fought even with Ikkaku even in Bankai, Renji said that his fight with Il Forte would be even with he has fought 100% since the beginning... but D-Roy seems weaker. So, instead of talking about power, I believe is better mention the fact that the Gillian regain a human level intelect after become an Arrancar (remember that the Gillian are almost irracional beings, originaly). - Access Timeco 14:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That doesn't make sense. We don't know whether gillian-level arrancar were actually menos grande before they became arrancar. They may have been regular hollows that rose to gillian level when ripping their masks. This also makes sense because clearly gillian-level arrancar are weaker than shinigami lieutenants and therefore they were probably much weaker as hollows. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 10:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recovering on them the intellect

message: I have caught up with chapter 242 of the manga. Two brand-new, non-Espada, arrancar are giving chase to Ichigo, Chad, and Uryu while at Hueco Mundo.
I noticed that those two aforementioned arrancar possess more hollow-looking traits and forms which is addressed by Ichigo.
From what Urahara told to Uryu, Uryu explains to Ichigo that the more an arrancar resembles a human form, the higher its class and power. Guido MTY 14:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm quoting the exact same text from a user at the AnimeSuki forums that provided more insight information about the Arrancar from the Japanese source which will be in itallics.
basically the info ishida got from urahara was:  1. The 5 arrancars grimmjow first brought to the real world were a mixture of gillian and ajukaru (which is kinda wrong since aizen said they were all gillians after they were wiped out.)  2. After a meno's mask is removed, if its outer appearance resembles that of a human 100%, then it's a vastorode. (and as this explanation is taking place we see images of ulquiorra, yammi and edorad.)  3. The classes of arrancars looking more hollow than human are simply low intelligence minions.
Source. AnimeSuki forums Guido MTY 15:21, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Point #2 is incorrect. It actually says that every class of menos can become humanoid but only with the vastoroode there is a 100% chance. I have also read the RAW and it says the same thing as far as I understand, so it can't be a Manga7 error. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 10:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Information about Arrancar Classes 

message: According to the chapter 245 spoiler texts, Hollows do not actually use their inner energy to fight, but rather energy they ingest, whether from human souls or the environment. --tjstrf 05:42, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't found this note anywhere. AFAIK it says that surrounding energy helps them fight but they also use their own energy. Wasn't there a hollow at some point which applies spiritual pressure on someone? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 12:20, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  According to 245... 

message: "Like the shinigami, the hollows have a multitude of combat skills and abilities. They usually acquire energy to power their abilities by devouring souls, but can also ingest energy from the air when in spiritual realms such as Hueco Mundo." How accurate is this statement. I don't remember the manga giving any source for their power. They devour souls due to being creatures of instict and to reproduce their ranks. shinigami get their power from their own soul so why can't hollows do the same. and ingesting energy from the air sounds very quincy to me, absorbing spirit particles. I don't think Nell and his brothers eat other souls for energy either. Someone please varify this line.--Noman953
:I think it said somewhere around the beginning of the manga that hollows increase in power when they devour souls. This seems likely. I cannot find the place where it said it - don't remember the first chapters too well - but I'm sure somebody will. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Shinigami eat food.  In general, souls living inside the Soul Society don't need to eat, however anyone with any amount of spiritual power will eventually grow hungry and even starve to death.  This is probably a round-about way of aquiring reishi, since all matter in the Soul Society is made from it.  In the real world, the only readily available source of reishi is humans.  –Gunslinger47 23:12, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Abilities

message: That espada with the white moustache where is he in the meeting.
:Between Yammy and Zaera-Polo. Lord Air 06:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moustache Man 

message: Based on the latest spoiler pages and translations, I have added information on a new category of arrancar, the Fracción.  Fracción seems like the mostly likely Spanish transliteration of the Japanese, furashion, but if anyone has other thoughts, I'd be glad to hear them. - SilverBelial 22:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose  could mean fracción, the Spanish word for fraction. –Gunslinger47 01:06, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but the kanji for furashion is " 従乕官 "?  That's ,  and . –Gunslinger47 01:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, that looks about right to me. - SilverBelial 01:39, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: While I'll admit that the katakana is off for Fracción's actual pronunciation, but it's the only word that comes remotely close to Frashion.  Flacion, flacion, frassion; none of them words, as far as I know.  And Kubo did, after all, have Ulquiorra call himself the Cuatro Espada - his Spanish isn't exactly perfect. - SilverBelial 22:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fracción 

message: While I appreciate the thought, the uncropped silhouette, :Image:Vastolorde-full.jpg, doesn't really flow well in this article.  Can we not use :Image:Vastolorde.jpg with a link to the full version? –Gunslinger47 08:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, we cannot. We have to go with one or the other, since the fair use rules here require that images actually be in use in an article. Annoying in this case, I know, but true. --tjstrf talk  08:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I spoke with an administrator about it, and he seems to clarify that direct links from mainspace satisfy the non-orphaned criteria. (link) –Gunslinger47 18:08, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Very little is known about vast lords.  For this reason, I currently believe that the silhouettes are worth having.  That said, I have no personal attachment to them and would not fight a consensus for their removal. –Gunslinger47 20:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really like them either, they're uninformative and, of all the 100+ Bleach images, probably the least useful to the page they accompany (even more than those 5 dozen pictures of Byakuya's bankai we finally ditched). --tjstrf talk  23:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've speedied the full silhouette with .  There is a rule written somewhere out there in the Wikipedia talk namespace that says direct links to images do not qualify as "complementing" an article and thus fail to meet the non-orphaned fair-use criteria. –Gunslinger47 23:16, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vastolorde-full.jpg

message: Though it's filler, doesn't the Menos Grande that appears resemble the Adjuchas example shadow? Anyone have any confirmation? Cotton -reply here please- 18:41, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode 132 

message: I would just like to mention the fact that, while Negacion stops all attacks, the Shinigami were still able to talk to Aizen. Therefore, a Zanpakuto that uses sound to attack enemies (Suzumushi) could theoretically attack those confined in Negacion. Kinda like how in the D&D Monster Manual there's not a single enemy with resistance to sonic damage. Kobra 05:31, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While an interesting theory, that would qualify as original research, or something along those lines at least. ~SnapperTo 06:24, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just wanted to suggest it here, nothing more. Kobra 10:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Plus there's the obvious fact that the one person with such a weapon happens to be evil. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:17, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but we don't know the identity of everyones' Zanpakuto in Soul Society, do we? It's possible that there's at least one with the ability to inflict Sonic damage-- even if the wielder isn't fully aware of it. Kobra 10:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Negacion