Talk:Ned Maddrell

message: I'm confused by the claim that Maddrell's status as a native speaker of Manx can be disputed. The basis the author uses for the dispute seems to be that Maddrell learned Manx from his great aunt (the implication being, presumably, that a true native speaker would learn it from their parents). But who a speaker learns a language from is irrelevant. This is attested to by the fact that the children of immigrants invariably learn, perfectly, the language of the host society (naturally from people other than their parents) if they are exposed to it in childhood. If Maddrell learned Manx young enough to be perfectly fluent – and it is stated that he did – and he used it as his everyday language of choice – which it appears that he did – then he was a native speaker. The same goes for Leslie Quirk, who is stated to have learned Manx as a child from his grandmother. Any linguist will tell you that proficiency in a language depends above all else on the age at which one is exposed to it, not on who is doing the exposing. James von Mann 00:22, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think this is the only way to interpret the claim. Just as important as the age at which a language is learned is the amount of exposure to the language. Normally, a child will see more of its parents than of a great aunt. This being the case, native proficiency in a language is far more likely to be acquired from parents. Of course, it's quite possible that Maddrell lived with his great aunt, but until evidence of this is presented, I see no reason to change the article. Matve 11:44, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "Native speaker" refers to having learned the language(s) before learning others 2600:8801:FB13:6B00:4D61:DB33:8DF4:8B63 (talk) 07:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Defence of Maddrell's status as a native speaker

message: I don't think that the native speakers of Manx today can be regarded as 'neo-native speakers'. It is different from the situation with the Hebrew speakers as there is a continuity with the Manx case. At the time Maddrell died there were already people who could spoke Manx and besides, we have recordings of other Manx speakers as well. 
It can be argued as well for Hebrew, but Hebrew was a liturgical language. Meursault2004 (talk) 09:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neo-native speakers

message: I changed the year of birth to "ca. 1878" because in Contributions to the Study of Manx Phonology, Kenneth H. Jackson reports that Ned Maddrell was 72 when Jackson arrived on the Isle of Man "just after Christmas 1950". Unless Maddrell's birthday was one of the very last days of the year, that makes his year of birth 1878. —Angr 22:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Year of birth 

message: Please share the story of how it was achieved and by whom or what group of people, families or committee or organization. When it was achieved. Also where on the Isle of Man was it decided to start the language going again. Was it the shock to the Isle that the last speaking person died? Was that the impotus? If so please do share that as well. 
Also a HUGE bravo for re-kindling the language and keeping it going. 2601:243:700:2A11:200F:2BE1:6A02:C837 (talk) 22:59, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Story of revival of Manx language in Isle of Man...the when,where,how was done.