Talk:Gram Parsons

message: Online sources seem to be about 50-50 on "Cecil Ingram Connor" vs. "Ingram Cecil Connor". Does anyone have a solid citation, like from a well-researched biography? - Jmabel | Talk 04:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth name 

message: While I agree with the author in their assessment of Parsons' legendary status, the article could be a bit more critical as regards his integrity. For example, the legend goes that Keith Richards dissauded Parsons from going to South Africa by telling him about Apartheid, rather than Gram making a conscientious decision himself. His fellow Flying Burrito Brother Chris Hillman goes as far to say in Fallen Angel that it was merely an excuse for Parsons to hang out with the Stones. Either acccount could be untrue but it would help a newcomer to "Cosmic American Music" understand Parsons in their own way, if both were considered alongside the article's version of events. Just a thought...-— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.109.26.135 (talk) 21:02, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imbalance? 

message: Gram Parsons may be the Patron Saint of Folk Rock and Country and Western, but as great as he was, I sometimes wonder if Parson's morphine overdose death wasn't the Fallen Angel's perverse way of ducking a legacy that would inspire so many country singers to fancy themselves rock stars and so many rock stars to fancy themselves country singers. Parsons was one of those rare creatures who is anything and everything all at once, a visionary with the magentic charmisa of a heartbreaking and the sense of artistic risk of a true genius. A romantic easy rider who comfortably wore his bible belt next to his gun holster, Parsons remains the spiritual heart and soul of folk-rock and country and western, two genres that, in the 1960s, were never supposed to collide. It took a talent as soul-stirring and brave as Parsons' to electrify the Newport Folk Festival with the Byrds in 1964, to storm the gates of the Grand 'ol Oprey in 1966, to turn the Rolling Stones into a blues band in 1968 and to pluck an angel-voiced waitress from obscurity to sing his Applachian gospel in 1970. Since his untimely death and gloriously insipiring funeral in Joshua Tree Desert, an entire cottage industry of Gram worship as mushroomed around him and Columbia Records recent reissue, Gram Parsons: Wasn't Born to Follow, cashes in on the man's unmatched legcacy and undeniable appeal. While most Gramophiles probably won't need to hear another alternate take of "Mr Tambourineman," the addition of some wildly inspiring outtakes will certainly be of interest. From the  	 
- 	mind-bending geography of 8 Miles High (aka The First Psychedelic Song Ever) to the pining nostaligia of Hickory Wind, Parsons had more musical range than the Smokey Mountains. But ragged demons lurk within even his most optimistic of songs, Turn! Turn! Turn!: Gram, it would seem, must have been born under a dark star. Heir to a Southern aristocracy, both of his parents committed suicide before he was 17, as did a number of other family members (both of his grandmothers shot themselves, while an aunt and an uncle hung themselves in a gruesome, duel suicide); his stepfather, a notoritously ruthless fortune-seeker, forciably adopted Gram in order to secure a piece of his inheritance before having Gram's beloved but vocal sister committed to a New Orleans mental hospital. It took Gram two years of legal battling to gain custody of her. However, the 	 
- 	music-making began when Parsons was a divinity student at Harvard, writing powerful, topical songs for a number of folk singers, including his future partner Mary Travers of Pete Paul and Mary. Parsons adopted Traver daughter, Polly, and today she is the posesser of his legacy. And most of that legacacy can be heard on WASN'T BORN TO FOLLOW, a collection that gracefully compiles Parsons's many styles, all immaculate, captivating and timeless. Though Gram Parsons died tragically young, his legend comtinues to shine brighter than his peers who have had the time, money and technology to make music. Genius is an elusive thing but the Fallen Angel had it in spades. Long may he ride.
-- Fascinating. Please continue to update your personal website about Gram Parsons with this kind of thing - not wikipedia.-— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.127.160 (talk) 21:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What? 

message: Born in 1946 he saw "…Elvis Presley perform in concert, in 1957. Five years later…" (that would make him about 16) "but while barely in his teens" (that would make him not about 16), "he played in rock and roll cover bands such as the Pacers and the Legends, headlining in clubs owned by his stepfather in the Winter Haven/Polk County area.  By the age of 16" (hmm. He's 16 again) :he graduated to folk music, and in 1963" (about 17) "teamed with his first professional outfit, the Shilohs." I'm guessing that the problem is with "five years later, but…", which seems to be a recent addition, but there are no cited sources. Can someone sort this out? - Jmabel | Talk 22:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictory chronology 

message: This anonymous edit is uncited, lacks an edit summary, and while it is just possibly accurate, it could also well be wrong. I have no guess either way on the date, but early Gram Parsons certainly sounds like it was influenced by the Kingston Trio. I've never heard of The Journeymen. Who are they? Does someone have citation of them as an influence? - Jmabel | Talk 18:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind, found a citation myself with a Google search. But it mentions both. I'll restore the far better-known Kingston Trio. - Jmabel | Talk 18:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Journeymen? 

message: There are 7 things that must pass before an article reaches GA status. I have reviewed it and the result is as follows:
#Well-written: Pass
#Factually accurate: Pass 
#Broad: Pass 
#Neutrally written: Pass
#Stable: Pass 
#Well-referenced: Pass
#Images: Pass
Well done, the GA has passed successfully —Minun Spiderman 19:40, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure how this can pass GA if such basic facts as his birth town are disputed, and the article makes no effort to either resolve the dispute (by citing the authorative source) or, if it is unresolved, make note of the dispute with proper sourcing. The discussion on top of this talk page is very insufficient in settling the dispute. The Byrds webpage still lists Waycross as his birth town, and it claims to cite from two reliable sources. ~ trialsanderrors 16:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Result

message: link [2] duplicates Gram Parson's Gravesite link and does not show the concrete slab at Joshua Tree —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.159.143.172 (talk • contribs) 1 August 2006.
:I am guessing "hand traverse" is bogus entry - this article is only google hit —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.159.155.108 (talk) 21:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gram Parsons Memorial Hand Traverse 

message: It has been suggested that Parsons was mostly apolitical and merely took advantage of an opportunity to hang out with his idols, although he did refer to one of the younger African-American butlers in the Connor household as being "like a brother" to him in an interview and did not seem to exhibit racist tendencies.  This sentence comes out of nowhere.
::There's some references in this discussion page about Keith Richards discouraging Gram from going to South Africa.  I think some genuine Gram Parsons fan has mad a real muddle out of the Rolling Stones/Who wrote Honky Tonk Woman/Gram Parsons as country rock icon/ meme 64.252.28.25 (talk) 20:03, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: awkward line

message: Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 02:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Re-Review and In-line citations 

message: As per the Good Article review opened on this article by, well, myself, this article has been delisted, primarily because it does not comply with WP:LEAD and due to a low amount of references. However, I gotta tell ya, only two people (myself and one other) commented about this, so feel free to open another review if you want. Dispute archived here: Wikipedia:Good articles/Disputes/Archive 6 Homestarmy 17:43, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Delisted GA

message: In the Legacy section, there is a reference to a song about Parsons by the Eagles, and then someone has recently added another in the last line that is not referenced.  There have been *scores* of published songs written about Parsons.  Perhaps only those published should be mentioned, if at all, and that they should be mentioned in the same paragraph, stand alone.  A good source for a list of these songs could be found on the GPBB at www.gramparsons.com; someone there can lead you in the right direction (they seem to keep track of them).  Otherwise, I would delete just these two references. Atticweb (talk) 20:16, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that there's no need to try and list songs about Parsons in the article. If there are any which are specifically notable (e.g. ones which reached a high position in a national music chart), then maybe those should be mentioned. Other than that, the subject of a song is best mentioned in the song's own article (and if the song isn't notable enough to have its own article, then it's not worth mentioning here). I've removed those two paragraphs from the article. Adam McMaster (talk) 18:02, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Songs About Parsons 

message: Please explain how his birthplace and his origin are not the same. Thanks. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 00:42, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin?? 

message: On the point of listing CMA in the infobox, I agree with Kohoutek on leaving it out. I will, however, point out that it is used as a genre separate from Parsons—see this Rhapsody page: "Cosmic American Music is a sonic amalgamation of twangy guitars borrowed from raw, pastoral Americana music and the smooth, solid drum and bass grooves of northern soul music." - I.M.S. (talk) 04:06, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've had to remove this from the infobox a couple of times so far. My problem with it is that it's not a generally recognised music genre, it's just something that GP came up with - a groovy and quotable phrase - and only he knew what it really meant. For example, Rhapsody may say that it's an amalgamation of "pastoral Americana music and the smooth, solid drum and bass grooves of northern soul music" but that's only a fraction of what Parsons' intended the phrase to mean. His Cosmic American Music was a hybrid of honky tonk country music (first and foremost), folk music, soul, rhythm and blues, rock ’n’ roll, gospel, and contemporary rock. This ambiguity is the problem that I have with listing CAM as a genre - it's too amorphous and diffuse to be regarded in the same way as clearly defined genres like country & western, country rock, folk rock, or psychedelic rock. However, I would say that we should probably add Rock to the infobox genre field, since a number of Parsons’ songs ("One Day Week", "Lazy Days", "Ooh Las Vegas") clearly fall into that genre. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 07:27, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the quotebox! It's great to add commentary from the man himself—it's unfortunate that so little survives. - I.M.S. (talk) 04:46, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cosmic American Music 

message: Is it Yucca Valley or Joshua Tree?  Those are two different towns. Submersible (talk) 22:23, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty sure it was Joshua Tree. - I.M.S. (talk) 22:31, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Place of Death?

message: Reading Bryan Veloso's blog re:LaurelCanyon, he did some extensive research re:Gram's personal life (including the family tree, and that Gram was related to Milton Hershey & Snively Family-citrus growers), and with this research there are things within the Wiki article that are questionable:
1. Bob Parsons adopted Gram and his sister Avis, going so far as to have their birth certificates reflect that he was their biological father.
2.  That Gram's real father's death was an alleged suicide and officially listed as an 'accident'.
Opionions on this for further editing appreciated-D-  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.228.142 (talk) 16:38, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you got a link to this blog and this new information? I'm not sure that Bryan Veloso (who?) and his blog can be considered a reliable source though. Blogs in particular are generally considered to be unreliable self-published sources and therefore discouraged on Wikipedia. Veloso is going to have to have to have some serious credentials as a Gram Parsons expert for this new found information to supersede facts that are supported by inline references from renown authorities on the subject, such as David Meyer and Ben Fong-Torres. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 23:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal Life Info 

message: The article states "Parsons left on one of the final helicopters and attempted to pick up Michelle Phillips." Does this mean he attempted to pick up Michelle Phillips in a helicopter, or he attempted to Pick-up her in a "romantic" sense? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 14:05, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michelle Phillips 

message: Has Jack Royerton actually performed at Gramfest? As I mentioned on this thread at COIN, an anonymous IP has been steadily adding unsourced claims about someone named Jack Royerton to articles, and the IP geolocates to a college where there is someone named Jack Royerton on staff, so this is a possible conflict of interest, hoax, or perhaps both. LonelyBoy2012 (talk) 03:51, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Jack Royerton?

message: Hello. I am thinking about updating and expanding this article to get it up to Featured Article status by the 40th anniversary of his death, September 19, 2013. For a good example of what a singer's FA article should look like, see the Elvis Presley article. If anyone has suggestions to improve upon, please let me know here. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:30, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA? 

message: This is good information, but may be misplaced in an article about Parsons.  Since the info deals exclusively with the Burritos drummers, wouldn't it be better in that article? —Ojorojo (talk) 15:08, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  3/3/2017 Burritos drummer discussion addition 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The current edit (7th December 2019) states that a person did not drink with Parsons on the day of his death because they were recovering from a bout of Hepatitis C. This is 26 years before Hepatitis C was named. It was known from the "mid-1970's" that "non-A non-B Hepatitis" existed, nevertheless the naming of HepC is at the most a much later diagnosis, and may merely be an unwarranted assumption. The person would have been diagnosed with Hepatitis, it is extremely unlikely that they were told that they had a Hepatitis that was not HepA or HepB.
Point: an edit removing "Hepatitis C" is warranted Brunswicknic (talk) 12:21, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Death", Hepatitis C 

message: He was in the Harvard class of 1969; he began in September 1965 and dropped out in early 1966. 76.151.169.115 (talk) 01:23, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gram Parsons Harvard class