Talk:Tabernacle Choir

message: Why is the mention of the 2nd Cremaster film considered irrelevant? --203.26.206.130
:Because it's an incredibly obscure film.  It looks like you linked it just to prevent the article from becomming an orphan.  Nowhere does The Cremaster Cycle article mention the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, so they couldn't have played a key role in the film.  And from the description of the series, it doesn't sound like they'd appear in it willingly.  The choir has been featured in scores of other much more widely seen movies (knowingly and willingly, such as Mr. Krueger's Christmas), but the article doesn't mention those films.  The art film is just too obscure to merit mention.  If you want to make a case, state it here.  We can talk about it. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:12, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
I think the very obscurity of the film is what makes the fact that the Mormon Tabernacle choir participated interesting.  And the reader of this article will not be left wondering 'what is the second film of the cremaster cycle' - there's a hypertext link to the Cremaster article.   On this encyclopedia, we have the opportunity to be as comprehensive as possible.  Other projects involving this choir are noted on the page, such as work with orchestras etc.  therefore why not list all film appearances or soundtrack mentions just for the sake of accuracy and offering as much information as possible?  I added the Cremaster reference because it was interesting to me that a religious choir would be involved in a film such as Barney's.  The film is set in the Salt Lake Valley, hence the inclusion.  
Maybe a reference to the choir should be added to the Cremaster page?  And the phrasing should probably be changed from 'This choir also features...' to 'This choir also appeared in...'
:Did the MoTab participate or were they merely included?  I highly doubt that the MoTab would actively participate in a movie named after testicle muscles, no matter how artistic it was.  Including them is one thing, having them perform for the film is another.
:Being comprehensive is one thing, but mentioning every fleating relationship is another.  For example, should we mention that John Cusack appeared in The Player even though his participation was by chance and he was onscreen for about 3 seconds?
:So, yes, if you think it is that interesing, include the information on the Cremaster page.
:And please sign your posts.  You can do this with 3 or 4 tildes (~~~ or ~~~~).  The latter form adds a timestamp.  Peace. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:23, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
They were included on screen.  I suppose what this comes down to is the division between information and trivia. 203.166.57.11 01:08, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Cremaster irrelevant

message: The Church announced today that Craig Jessop, Choir director for the last ten years, is stepping down to enjoy family time, resume teaching, and work on personal projects. Mack Wilberg will serve as interim director until a new director is chosen. See the following sources for verification. Consequently, this article should be changed to reflect newest information.
Jessop stepping down as director of Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Choir's Jessop is resigning
Tabernacle Choir Director Jessop resigns
Hope this information is helpful to you. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 00:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, he is doing a fantastic job which you can see on TV/BYU Channel. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 20:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Craig Jessop steps down as director, Mack Wilberg appointed interim director 

message: Do we really need all those links to YouTube at the bottom of the article?  I can understand a few, just to give interested readers some example, but do we need like a dozen?  Anyone competent with a web browser can just search YouTube for more examples if they're interested. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 19:51, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Let's just leave one for now, so the novice YouTube users can at least find others easily if needed. --Eustress (talk) 03:23, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: YouTube spamming

message: The History section needs to be expanded substantially considering the Choir's longevity. With whom they have performed, where they have performed, the beginnings and evolution of the choir, etc. It would also be nice to integrate the tour lists into some kind of prose. I'll also look for more pictures. --Eustress (talk) 03:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement

message: The discography could really use dates on all of the albums.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johncolton (talk • contribs) 18:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discography 

message: There is no discussion of how the choir participates in services at the Tabernacle, assuming it does so.  Given that this is a religious choir, some discussion of its religious role is warranted.  --Bruce Hall (talk) 12:16, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The Choir has its own weekly broadcast "Music & The Spoken Word." It also customarily provides music for at least 3 of the 5 general conference sessions held in the Conference Center. Unless I'm mistaken, all of that is mentioned in the article. If you could provide specifics to clarify what you mean, we might be able to help you more. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 01:27, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  How is the choir used during services? 

message: I was reverted here, and reverted again: these fall so foul of WP:EL that they're practically spam. (The argument that "they're relevant to the article" doesn't mean anything.) If I must: "Music and the Spoken Word Official website" is irrelevant since that isn't the topic of the article; it's an associated act that's already wikilinked. The EL section is not for associated links. "Bonneville Communications, Producer of Music and The Spoken Word: why would we list the website of the company that produces something that's not the topic of the article? "Official YouTube channel": website is already listed so this is redundant. "Information on the Mormon Tabernacle Choir at Utah.com": clearly spam link. These links are not acceptable. Drmies (talk) 02:53, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect, that's just your opinion. The Mormon Tabernacle Choir and Music & the Spoken Word are inseparable. Without the Choir, there would be no "Music" portion of the program. The principal function of the Choir is to perform weekly with the official choir broadcast. That's established in the article itself. Instead of repeatedly reverting, you should wait for a consensus to be formed on this issue. That's two or more editors agreeing on one side or the other, whether you agree with the consensus or not. That's the way WP works. Please don't revert again until others have a chance to comment. --Jgstokes (talk) 06:15, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take it to the spam board. I don't think I need to take advice on how Wikipedia works from an LDS advertiser. Drmies (talk) 13:12, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: well, you have 2 editors against you, jgstokes. I'm with drmies here. WP:ELNO says those links shouldn't be there. -- Aunva6talk - contribs  17:15, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

text: And I clearly have at least three editors on my side, as evidenced by the fact that mine was neither the first nor only revert. However, I have looked at the links added by you and have no objections to the page as it now stands. I'm not entirely unreasonable. --Jgstokes (talk) 04:08, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, I'm not an "LDS advertiser." I am merely a member of the LDS Church who has a vested interest in making the page the best it can be. Drmies's edits were not helpful. The work done by Anuva6 satisfies me completely. --Jgstokes (talk) 04:12, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: I am working to resolve the Bare URLs in Ref/Citations. Bear with me for a little while as it is a work in progress. Peaceray (talk) 02:56, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The references you added look great! Thanks for doing all that research and finding these sources. If you find any others that might be helpful, please feel free to post them as well. Thanks again for your great work! --Jgstokes (talk) 03:08, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: All done! I removed the  template. Just to be clear, I did not do the research or find the sources, except for replacing an irretrievable source. What I did do was to go to each URL & use the information (page info in Firefox, properties in IE) & the information from the web pages/sites to gather the info for the  & . I also added wikilinks to the publisher & newspaper when available, & added the ISSN & OCLC #'s when I could find them. Peaceray (talk) 06:28, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ref/Citations : Bare URLs 

message: There are no book citations in this article! There seems to be a number of books written about the Choir.
To begin with, here is what is online, ten books as of this moment.:
*
Here is the list of all books in OCLC (Worldcat), about 292 books or editions in all formats:
*
Here is a link to the  template. At a minimum, one should be able to list the author last & first name, title, year & location of publication, the publisher, & an OCLC #. If they are available, please include a url for eBooks, the ISBN available, & an authorlink if there is an article on the author.
I did some work cleaning up bare URLs & the SLTrib citations; I am moving on to other articles. Happy editing!
Peaceray (talk) 06:55, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  No book citations? Well, here's some possibilities. 

message: In the lead section, why do you keep removing "(LDS Church)" after "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"? Recent examples: , , . "LDS Church" is used later on in the article, so the first time the church is mentioned, we use the full name and establish an abbreviation that will be used throughout the article. "LDS Church" is the recommended Wikipedia abbreviation used per WP:MOSLDS. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:40, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree WP:MOSLDS is clear.  This is the way it is supposed to be.--- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 20:51, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It happened again.  please comment here to discuss rather than just repeatedly removing it. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:15, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Church abbreviation keeps getting deleted

message: I grew up in the Salt Lake City area, sang in ward choirs, high school choirs, BYU (five choirs, including tours to Las Vegas and Canada) and University of Utah choirs (including representing western states in Hawaii), and never heard the Tabernacle Choir referred to as the Mo TAB.  I did, however, when I started college choirs, hear them referred to as the Tab Choir: "Come on, [sing right]; you are not the tab-choir", Kirt Weinsinger told BYU University Chorale my freshman year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charles Edwin Shipp (talk • contribs) 
: Is the intent here to explore whether MoTab is appropriately included in the opening as a colloquially-used nickname? Though this is no more scientific or reference-based than anything else might be, I have heard it referred to as the MoTab for many years and in many locations. ChristensenMJ (talk) 16:54, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I've found quite a few recent references to "MoTab" in media: eg, Daily Herald (Utah County), Salt Lake Magazine, and BYU TV. (Notably, it's often used in an article headline, no doubt to save space.) I've also found a few, though not as many, uses of "Tab Choir", most of them from the Daily Herald: eg, . So it seems to me that both are likely legitimate short forms. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:18, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  MoTAB ?   

message: I think that the status of the choir needs to be mentioned for clarification. I don't like "all-volunteer" because that makes being a choir member sound like an unpleasant job that someone had to do. It also sounds slightly boastful on the part of whoever requires people to volunteer (COJCLDS in this case). Amateur is technically correct, but another editor thinks it has a negative connotation. I think the way it has been handled at the Huddersfield Choral Society seems a good way (I need to remove some peacockery there before you look). Does anyone else agree?. Op47 (talk) 16:48, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: peacockery removed now. Op47 (talk) 16:54, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Status (amateur or what) 

message: In 2012, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir traveled to Ephraim, Utah for a concert at Snow College to celebrate the dedication of the Pioneer Heritage Gardens in nearby Manti, Utah. 
https://www.lds.org/church/news/pioneer-heritage-center-and-gardens-dedicated-in-manti-utah?lang=eng  — Preceding unsigned comment added by HiJolly (talk • contribs) 18:40, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tour 2012 western us 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130329063236/http://www.mormontabernaclechoir.org/faq to http://www.mormontabernaclechoir.org/faq
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141028015404/http://www.mormontabernaclechoir.org/articles/press-release/2014-emmy?lang=eng to http://www.mormontabernaclechoir.org/articles/press-release/2014-emmy?lang=eng
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:18, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141010045351/http://ssh.ldsliving.com/story/76939-mormon-tabernacle-choir-fashion-1888-now to http://ssh.ldsliving.com/story/76939-mormon-tabernacle-choir-fashion-1888-now
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:34, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: First time writing for Wikipedia.  The audio clip for the christmas concert is titled "Angels we have heard on high". This is incorrect.  The actual title for this song (whose chorus is very similar to "Angels we have heard on high") is "Angels From The Realms Of Glory".  It is a different song  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:40E:8005:1BB0:910D:651:E0E:F87F (talk) 06:12, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Audio clip is wrongly titled 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140513201606/http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/entertainment2/55409965-223/boe-concert-choir-tabernacle.html.csp to http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/entertainment2/55409965-223/boe-concert-choir-tabernacle.html.csp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141007165610/http://www.mormontabernaclechoir.org/about/newsroom/faqs?lang=eng to http://www.mormontabernaclechoir.org/about/newsroom/faqs?lang=eng
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:10, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: It says in the main title that they are still the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, they changed their name last October to the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square. Raymond.berger4 (talk) 21:34, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Raymond.berger4, please see the talk category just above this.  Consensus is to wait until the common usage is addressed. ChristensenMJ (talk) 22:05, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the Choir 

message: All of the objections raised by editors above are gone now. The new name “Tabernacle Choir” is more commonly used in media than “Mormon Tabernacle Choir”. Using a google search, it’s clear to see that most articles about this entity are written by Deseret News or Salt Lake Tribune, both of which adhere to the new style. Using “at Temple Square” seems less common. 
Many editors in the above consensus  cited WP’s common name procedure, but “Tabernacle Choir” is more concise than “Mormon Tabernacle Choir” and is equally precise and recognizable, which are the main criteria we evaluate on. 
The excuses for opposing the name change are running out, and it’s looking like only plain old bigotry is keeping it from changing now. Brirush (talk) 12:30, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time passes, usage changes 

message: I have moved this table out of the "closed" discussion as a living record to provide a metric of how the media refers to the article subject over time, to assess changes in Common Usage.  Editors are encouraged to add or challenge any source. Epachamo (talk) 14:36, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: *  Feel free to split out the left column, I would not be offended. You say, "nearly all of those linked sources appear to be affiliated and promotional in nature not really independent." Please elaborate.  The only one of those sources that is owned by the LDS Church is the Deseret News. I don't understand how you could say that any of the others like the LA Times, PBS or especially the Salt Lake Tribune is not independent. Even if it were all promotional, it still goes through an independent editor before being published (editors who are interested in making sure their readers can connect with the best information, btw).  This meets the requirements of Wikipedia for independence. Even if none of them were independent, it is still a valid point of evidence demonstrating shifts in common name usage. Epachamo (talk) 14:25, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: * Even when published in third-party sources, puff pieces that promote particular events should not really carry much weight (especially, e.g., when PBS is promoting an event that will be broadcast on the PBS television system). — BarrelProof (talk) 18:05, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Record of Name Usage

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Moved to Tabernacle Choir   (t · c) buidhe 10:50, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Mormon Tabernacle Choir →  – Every time a university changes its name we immediately change our article name, we do not insist on showing that the new name reflects common usage. Above people have actually demonstrated that the most common usage is now the respect the name given it by the institution and follow that in reporting. This is a depricated name, and not showing respect for an institutions own decision to change its name here when we show immediate respect in almost all cases where a name change actually occurs is highly disrespectful John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:24, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 25 January 2021 

message: Hello again, everyone! It has been somewhat traditional for the administrative side of concerts, tours, and other functions at which the Choir has performed to be handled by a president who is not otherwise connected to the Choir. Although I don't have a complete history of those who served as president, we do know that in the 1990s-2000s, Mac Christensen filled that role. In 2012, Brother Christensen was replaced by Ron Jarrett. And this year, Ron Jarrett has been replaced by former Utah Governor Mike Leavitt, with his wife called to assist him in that assignment. But the announcement of the new president noted that two counselors and their wives will also be assisting Brother Leavitt. Within the last 24 hours, the Newsroom noted that the two counselors assigned to assist Brother Leavitt [https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/two-counselors-announced-to-serve-with-new-tabernacle-choir-president were sustained during an evening devotional for the Choir. The two counselors are L. Whitney Clayton, an emeritus General Authority Seventy, and Gary B. Porter, who has filled administrative roles with the Church'a business entities. Would it be helpful to include information about the choir presidents in this article? I know that for a brief period in the 1970s and 1980s, part of the Church's Sustaining of Church Officers always included the leadership of the choir. That being said, I'm not sure how much information is available on past choir presidents, or whether the changes made with the latest announcements (a 3-man presidency serving with their wiives) are sufficiently notable for Wikipedia purposes. Any feedback any of you might have on this would be appreciated. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 04:50, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Presidents of the Choir