Talk:Kronstadt

message: kotlin.ru - more information about Kronshtadt on English and Russian
:wheres the english version or section on that site? -max rspct 13:51, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

message: I realize that the words were originally there, but they seem to have been removed with good intent and I think it was a good idea.  However, this change was reverted, but I don't see why.  Making articles NPOV is always a good thing. Can we keep the version without the POV adjectives please? -- Rediahs 08:36, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As you please. I just think the epithets in question reflect certain hard facts rather than somebody's point of view. I don't see how anyone can argue that suppression of the rebellion was not ruthless and destruction of one of the major Neoclassical cathedrals was not barbarous. --Ghirla | talk 08:46, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe so, but do they contribute anything to the article either?  Just because they are nearly universally true doesn't mean there's a good reason for them to be there, when they could be considered POV.  I will go ahead and remove them again if that's all right.  -- Rediahs 08:51, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The traditional way to handle POV issues is to add quotes by leading participants and historians that reflect these differences of opinion. For example, Emma Goldman called the Bolsheviks' actions "a  frightful massacre", while Leon Trotsky defended them as "necessary". Ahasuerus 15:20, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV wording

message: I would also like to add the line, "The older St Andrew Cathedral (1817), formerly Kronstadt's pride and beauty, was barbarously destroyed by the Communists in 1932" is outrageiously subjective.  "barbarously destroyed"?  How about, just plainly: was destoryed, while we are at it, make the statment a bit more accurate: Was destoried in the civil war. 
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Ah, what a surprise, another page on Kronstadt where Max rspct constantly vandalises other people's posts and reverses them.
Whilst we are 'discussing' things, you have the presumption to 'correct' someone's post mentioning a riot by sneering that it was a 'rebellion' or 'uprising' - typical POV stuff from you of course, since in almost every History it is known as the Kronstadt MUTINY, just like the Spithead Mutiny, or the Kiel Mutiny, or any other uprising by a Navy against it's command.
You rail against authoritarianism with your Anarchist POV, and yet you are a consistant authoritarian on here, constantly editing out or reversing the posts of others.
:A quick search at http://print.google.com finds 172 pages that refer to "Kronstadt uprising", 211 pages that mention "Kronstadt rebellion", 129 pages that use "Kronstadt revolt" and 108 pages that reference "Kronstadt mutiny". All four terms seem to be used more or less interchangeably by non-anarchist authors. Ahasuerus 21:48, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't agree to that.
-G
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I replaced "until the fall of communism in 1989" with "until the fall of Communism in 1989" to denote that this must be a reference to the state party rather than communism in general. Further editing to this end may be necessary
--Dean Sayers 01:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Max Rspct Vandalism 

message: Removed Military History tag as article is out of scope.  --dashiellx (talk) 18:16, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008 

message: The article states "Pushkin's great-grandfather, Abram Petrovich Gannibal, oversaw its construction" and cites a recent biography.  However, according to the Wikipedia article on Gannibal, he was in Constantinople in that year.  More importantly, he was also 7 years old.  Could someone doublecheck the biography or some other source?   The Wikipedia article does state that he was a miltary engineer, so perhaps he contributed to the fortress at some later date.  Norm mit (talk) 18:03, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: Why does it have a German name? Sca (talk) 21:45, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: The second sentence of the History section says (or said, until I removed it):
: 
and there's a ref given for this and a "dubious-discuss" tag, with the reason given being "He was 7 years old at the time", and a date of 2010 which is six years ago now.
There's been no discussion that I can see in any of that time. I can't read the ref, which is a book I don't have. It is true that Gannibal was born in 1696 (according to his article) and the construction began in 1704 (not only that, he was born in Africa and didn't even enter Russia until 1704.)
And it says the fortifications were "constructed very quickly". It's hard to imagine anyone, even a member of the imperial household (which Gannibal was), running such a large project before, say, age 18, which he attained in 1714. And he was in France 1717-1723.
So even if "constructed very quickly" means "it took 13 years or more to construct", Gannibal would only have been in charge for about three years. He might have been Chief Engineer of Kronstatd for a few years, responsible for maintenance and improvements. That's different from "oversaw its construction".
So ref or no, the statement's been under challange for a long time, hasn't been defended, and seems unlikely, so I removed it. --Herostratus (talk) 03:47, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gannibal oversaw construction? 

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thread_title:  External links modified