Talk:Khirbet Beit Lei

message: I'm glad to hear that the Tree of Lei and its protective wall exist after all. And here's some more common sense: If they exist, then there must be people living nearby to keep the tree alive and the wall in good repair.
I have no objection to including a map in Hebrew in this article. Why not? Das Baz 15:39, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Das Baz, I assure you that common sense is not banned on Wikipedia, however all arguments must be verifiable. In terms of the khirbeh, what I understood from the passage was that there is only a tree and a barrier, and no permanent settlement. People living nearby may or may not tend to it (there are dozens of ancient tree untended for centuries in the surrounding areas), but they surely don't live in Beit Lehi. Whats more, there are no nearby Arab settlements at least since 1948-1949. My search in the maps (Hebrew included) turned up nothing. If you find something or have any questions, please let me know. I would like to commend you for participating in this civilised discussion, and hope to continue the dialogue. Cheers, TewfikTalk 23:04, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ginat has also talked to a Bedouin who directed him to a nearby oak tree on a hill surrounded by a wall.  This place was called Khirbet Beit Lei, according to the Bedouin, because an ancient prophet named Lei lived there.  Subsequently, LaMar Berrett recorded the same Bedouin's account and found his story to be only partially consistent with that given by Joseph Ginat.  He also found an old man in another village who told essentially the same story as the Bedouin.
I should point out that Berret found the Bedouin's story "only partially consistent" with what Ginat claimed he said. Ginat claimed he was told two things: the name (Khirbet Beit Lei), and the reason for the name (because an ancient prophet named Lei lived there).  Hence the old man from another village didn't tell the story Ginat told, but essentially the same story as the Bedouin, that is the story that was "only partially consistent" with what Ginat claimed, whatever the differences may be.
On to the edits. I merged the Bedouin statements into the claim and counter claim sections, and removed the s from the section heading since there is one connection debated - I did this as a matter of grammar and not content. I reinserted the ship claim according to the Sunstone article which argues that Nephi is only told about the ships once they reach Bountiful (1 Ne. 17:8 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto me, saying: Thou shalt construct a ship, after the manner which I shall shew thee, that I may carry thy people across these waters.). I appreciate that you invested the time to research sources, and that you used an NPOV phrasing of the claim. Keep up the good work, TewfikTalk 05:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tree and Wall

message: Clearly, more interviews and more research of local Bedouin traditions are needed..
:Hi Das Baz, I think you accidentally added the above to the article. I agree. If we can find more evidence, that would be great. I'm personally puzzled by Bedouin living in that area, which is slightly distant from their settlements in the 60s, as well as being a frontier and probably secure from civilian presence. Cheers, TewfikTalk 07:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bedouin 

message: I replaced some Hebrew sources by English ones.  A note and a question:
* Naveh, Joseph (1977). "כתובות עבריות במערת קברים מימי בית ראשון" [Hebrew inscriptions from a burial cave of the first temple period]. ידיעות החברה לחקירת ארץ-ישראל ועתיקותיה (in Hebrew) (Israel Exploration Society) 27: 235–265.  The journal Yediot ceased publication in 1967, so probably this 1963 article is the one intended (correct volume and page numbers).  However it seems to be more or less identical to the version in the English journal Israel Exploration Journal published by the same society.  So I replaced it.
* Naveh (1963) says "This is the earliest Hebrew inscription mentioning ירשלם."  Text I removed said "The reference to Jerusalem is the oldest Hebrew language mention using this spelling." cited to this Hebrew source.  The wording raises the question of whether there are older inscriptions that mention Jerusalem with a different spelling, or is this a reference to mentions in places other than inscriptions (eg. bible)?  Can someone who reads Hebrew better than me please look at the source closely to see if this issue is clarified there?
Zerotalk 03:17, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questions about sources 

message: I wonder if there is an pre-Mormon source for the name Lehi or its Hebrew version לחי.  I can't find any.  The name used by the Survey of Western Palestine, based on the Arabic, was Leyi. The name on topographic maps of the British Mandate is Lei. Naveh called it Lei in English and ליי in Hebrew.  The modern Israeli name is Loya (לויה).  So where does Lehi come from?  I think it is a myth and will remove it unless someone comes up with a solid non-Morman source.  Mind you, I wouldn't object to a very brief section that describes the significance that some Mormon writers ascribe to this site, but it has to be separated from the scientific content. Zerotalk 04:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I can tell, use of the word "Lehi" is not supported. I can only find  fringe sources (e.g., Mormon fringe theorist Cleon Skousen) for identifying "Lei" with "Lehi". But Skousen's view is shown to be out of even the Mormon apologetic mainstream, because Jeffrey Chadwick, a credentialed Mormon archaeologist that was commissioned by the apologetic 
Maxwell Institute of BYU to investigate the matter, has written that "Beit Lehi" is the product of "linguistic misinformation." For that reason, I am removing "Khirbet Beit Lehi" from the opening sentence as a name variation on grounds of WP:FRINGE. COGDEN 20:45, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name Lehi 

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thread_title:  External links modified