Talk:Diagnosis of Asperger syndrome

message: Sorry about that, it only showed up after I put the second ref in. --Zeraeph 23:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: so, who's doing it?  I have them all in one place in my sandbox, but I'm not interested in losing it a third time. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a slight difference between an unintentional edit conflict and a contest you know. As soon as the tag came up I stopped, but I an afraid my crystal ball needs new batteries so I couldn't see it before then. If you have them, just put them in. --Zeraeph 23:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No thanks; you brought the text here before you had consensus, and if the text in the main article changes, I don't want to have to change it now in two places. No need for duplication of effort.  When the main article text is settled, we can then, with patience and according to a pre-agreed plan, bring it over here correctly.  Impulsive moves create extra work for all.  For example, I've already had to edit both articles to keep this in sync with the main article.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah c'mon Sandy, it was your idea, not mine...I just did WP:BOLD and got on with it. --Zeraeph 01:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit conflict with "in use template"

message: All criteria of AS (especially ICD-10 and DSM-IV) can be meet also by people with non-PDD disorders like NVLD. Childern with NVLD can have:
* lack of eye contact
* routines
* magic/bizarre beliefs
* specific interests
* black-white thinking
* good drawing (but ritualized)
* flat affect
* odd prosody, idiosyncratically change of topic  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.6.106.22 (talk) 10:33, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I made this change to try to address the issue, citing Stein et al. 2004 (). Eubulides (talk) 18:26, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  NVLD vs AS 

message: According to Gillberg, Schizoid personality disorder and other personality disorders have previously been used in place of Asperger syndrome. This seems likely because of the newness of AS as a diagnostic category. My source for this is Gillberg's chapter in the book "Autism and Asperger syndrome" edited by Uta Frith. I believe that Sula Wolff acknowledged that the children described in her book "Loners: the life path of unusual children" as “schizoid” resemble the group of autistic children described by Hans Asperger in his famous paper.
Some famous people who have been labelled as having AS by some and labelled as Schizoid by other authorities include Wittgenstein, Isaac Newton, and Einstein. Prof. M. Fitzgerald has found that writer Robert Walser met criteria for Schiziod PD and also AS, but I'm not sure if he recognizes Schiziod as a diagnosis. King Phillip II of Spain has been described as "autistic or schizotypal".
Is this a problem of differential diagnosis, or is it is a problem of there being or having been two different diagnoses in use for the one actual condition? Is it a fault in the diagnostic manuals and diagnostic practice? This needs to be explained clearly, or alternately in a blalanced way, in this Wikipedia article. Are some PDs nothing more than obsolete terms for AS? Are adults with AS more likely to have personality disorders? Are they more likely to be mislabelled with PDs?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.194.186 (talk • contribs) 05:02, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fitzgerald is pretty speculative, and is better suited for People speculated to have been autistic, where it's already cited. The rest of the comment has good questions, but we'd need answers (plus reliable sources, as described in the next thread). Eubulides (talk) 05:15, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  From the DSM-IV-TR:
There may be great difficulty differentiating individuals with Schizoid Personality Disorder from those with milder forms of Autistic Disorder and from those with Asperger's Disorder. Milder forms of Autistic Disorder and Asperger's Disorder are differentiated by more severely impaired social interaction and stereotyped behaviours and interests.
--194.65.151.101 (talk) 09:47, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: AS and Schizoid personality disorder

message: I think mention should be made of the fact that people who have diagnosed genetic syndromes can be given a diagnosis of AS, and that some experts have argued that the personalities/cognitive profiles typically found in some genetic syndromes are autistic or autism-like. I know of a person who has Klinefelter syndrome who also has a diagnosis of AS, and I've heard that people with Down syndome can be diagnosed as autistic. Cohen syndrome has been argued to be autistic. My personal opinion is that the best way to describe such people is by reference to their diagnosed genetic syndome, which may have a specific cognitive profile and personality type, rather than the more vague and general category of AS, but I guess a diagnosis of AS could bring greater access to various types of support. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.194.186 (talk • contribs) 05:02, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a reasonable point, and could be made in the article, but it needs a reliable source to support it. For the sort of sources we're looking for, please see Wikipedia:Reliable sources (medicine-related articles). Eubulides (talk) 05:15, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: AS and genetic syndromes?

message: It is high time that someone gave an explanation of the relationship between AS and other types of autism and dementia, specifically early-onset dememtia. Tonight on the Australian current affairs TV show "Sunday Night" there was a story about "dementia". The whole thing was very sloppily done, the terms "dementia" and "Alzheimers" appearing to be used interchangeably, with obviously early-onset type described as simply "dementia". The first person interviewed in this story has apparently got "dementia" and I guess must be the early-onset type, and has two siblings who were also diagnosed with dementia at young ages (20s, 30s) and this woman has two teen offspring who apparently have "Asperger's autism". No one would believe that the "dementia" and "Asperger's autism" in this family are unrelated phenomena. To my knowledge, in general AS has not been linked with any type of dementia, so I guess that this family's AS must be an unusual type, if it is genuine AS at all. Link to web site: http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunday-night/
I have also noticed that some cases of early-onset dementia that have been discussed on Australian radio recently are in a number of ways similar to some descriptions of autism or AS. I am left wondering whether many cases of so-called AS and autism are more accurately described as executive dysfunction due to damage, disease or lack of development of the frontal lobes.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.194.186 (talk • contribs) 13:07, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, we need reliable sources in this area before we can write anything (see WP:Verifiability). It sounds like that TV program is not reliable. Eubulides (talk) 17:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The relationship between AS and dementia?

message: *  (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695286/?tool=pubmed): 
Box 2.DSM-IV extensions after Adult Asperger Assessment (AAA) (modified)
Ad A) Difficulties in understanding social situations and other people’s thoughts and feelings
Ad B) Tendency to think of issues as being black and white, rather than considering multiple perspectives in a flexible way
Additionally: Qualitative impairments in verbal or nonverbal communication with at least three of the following symptoms:
# Tendency to turn any conversation back on to self or own topic of interest
# Marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others. Cannot see the point of superficial social contact, niceties, or passing time with others, unless there is a clear discussion point/debate or activity.
# Pedantic style of speaking, inclusion of too much detail
# Inability to recognize when the listener is interested or bored
# Frequent tendency to say things without considering the emotional impact on the listener
Additionally: Impairment in at least one of the criteria relating to childhood imagination:
# Lack of varied, spontaneous make believe play appropriate to developmental level
# Inability to tell, write or generate spontaneous, unscripted or unplagiarized fiction
# Either lack of interest in fiction (written, or drama) appropriate to developmental level or interest in fiction is restricted to its possible basis in fact (e.g. science fiction, history, technical aspects of film)
The review also includes a longer (more specific) version of the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria, so I'll update that in the article. MichaelExe (talk) 16:56, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: On second thought, it'd probably be better if someone who actually has the DSM-IV-TR to write and cite the diagnostic criteria, because although the criteria I've seen on several different websites are very similar, there are some small differences. MichaelExe (talk) 17:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diagnosis in Adults 

message: The American Psychiatric Association has not released its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders into public domain, but claims copyright. The Wikimedia Foundation has received a letter of complaint (Ticket:2010030910040817, for those with access) about the use of their diagnostic criteria in this and a number of other articles. Currently, this content is blanked pending investigation, which will last approximately one week. Please feel free to provide input at the copyright problems board listing during that time. Individuals with access to the books would be particularly welcome in helping to conduct the investigation. Assistance developing a plan to prevent misuse of the APA's material on Wikipedia projects would also be welcome. Thank you.  Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:20, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have fixed the problem for this article, and have placed the results into Talk:Diagnosis of Asperger syndrome/Temp. Eubulides (talk) 18:29, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. I've put your rewrite in place. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 19:06, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright problems with diagnostic criteria

message: I was just wondering if it would be possible and/or necessary to include a section, or even just a paragraph, about the presentation differences of Aspergers Syndrome between boys and girls, since that complicates diagnosis as well. I would put it in myself, but I don't think I could navigate the relevant materials sufficiently and cite properly. --Clevomon 11:52, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender Differences? 

message: Does it exist any statististics about the proportion of the population in different countries that have received the diagnosis? I would assume that some countries, particularly richer countries, have a better build out medical system and have therefore been more able to give people a diagnosis. --Oddeivind (talk) 10:04, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diagnosis in different countries 

message: This article definitely leaves you wanting. That table under the heading, Multiple sets of diagnostic criteria, may look very neat, but it's very unsatisfying for somebody looking for some supplemental information. It leaves out a lot of the diagnostic criteria. I was curious, and I looked hard enough, and found the information somewhere else. For anyone looking to do the work, I'd suggest putting more information rather than a table that just says yes and no to a few items. I understand that there are a lot of sources to include, but for the sake of having a complete article, it'd be worth finding a way. Just a thought. Lighthead þ 00:27, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very incomplete article 

message: For now I replaced an apparent proposed diagnostic criteria of ASD to the actual criteria which is now in effect. Right now we have detailed quotes for "Autism Spectrum Disorder" diagnostic criteria and a table highlighting various Asperger diagnostic criteria. ASD diagnosis is not the subject of this article, Asperger's diagnosis is. I propose we eliminate the detailed ASD diagnoses and possibly add the highlights of the DSM 5 diagnoses to the existing AS diagnostic table which might require renaming the table.  
Also I made several changes to reflect that the DSM 5 is not a proposal but has been in effect since May 2013. I changed relevant references of "Asperger's Syndrome" which is the ICD 10 name to "Asperger's Disorder" which was the DSM IV name. Also changed "Autism Spectrum Disorders" to "Autism Spectrum Disorder" which is the name.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.90.53.33 (talk) 21:12, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subsume DSM 5 ASD criteria into Asperger criteria Table