Talk:IPhone/Archive 1

message: OK, I've been digging around fruitlessly, trying to figure out if this is a closed platform (like the iPod), or an open platform (like MacOS X).
So far, I found no indication as to whether third-party developers can write applications for the iPhone. If anybody knows, that would be nice to include in the article. emk (talk)
:From the TUAW (www.tuaw.com) they claim "The iPhone will run OS X, and be capable of running desktop-class applications". The phone runs OS X so I would and the ability to run 'widgets' - what I haven't found out is whether or not the widgets are iPhone-specific or whether it can run the standard widgets already available for OS X. ny156uk 19:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Developer support? SDK? 

message: Apple's iPhone video on its website features an iPhone bookmarked for Wikipedia, and a screenshot of the iPod article. Very cool. - Nunh-huh 19:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice. :) Havok (T/C/e/c) 19:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's nice of them to give us a shoutout. Pacific Coast Highway {talk • contribs} 23:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Sorry, fair use images only in the article namespace, not in talk pages. -- ReyBrujo 20:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How absurd. - Nunh-huh 20:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Maybe we can fit it into the article? Sfacets 20:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, of course we could, but the idea was to present it here first for discussion. That's what talk pages are for. There's an actual rule that fair use images are not for user pages; if there's an actual rule against placing such images on talk pages, it's absurd, because presenting an image to be discussed is an actual fair use.  If it's decided to use the image in the article, we might want to photoshop the "dot" on it out (it shows the location of the imaginary finger on the touchscreen, and I doubt that it appears on the actual screen of the iPhone).  - Nunh-huh 20:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It could be cropped to remove the title, but photoshopping out the dot would be overkill, the dot doesn't distract from the overall image. When the article gets a little longer (ie there is more space available) we could insert a modified version Sfacets 22:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are some people so sensitive to fair use and copyright?  It's not like Wikipedia is profiting from the image being on either the article or the talk page. 139.168.56.35 02:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: After a while people becaome rule nazis. That or the bureaucracy makes them go nuts. Whatever comes first. ; ) Pacific Coast Highway {talk • contribs} 04:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Because if we aren't sensitive to copyrights, then we'll face lawsuits that could destroy the project.  Proper adherence and handling to these issues protect the project.  It has nothing to do with 'rule nazis'. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 14:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: iPhone release features Wikipedia screenshot

message: We must cover developing applications for the Apple iPhone, including "syncing  them" from iTunes. This is a very important part of the Apple strategy to have the iTunes "vending machine" ( similar to the BREW Qualcomm model) feeding applications for the Apple iPhone (and the iPod) 75.208.152.191 01:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Developer Program 

message: is the ability to do Google Maps, etc, really a special feature due to a special agreement with Google? I presumed it was just part of the normal web browsing capabilities, and that it can also do MapQuest or Yahoo or any online service (but they just chose to feature Google). --ZimZalaBim (talk) 20:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nevermind - see now they have a dedicate Gmaps application built in. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 20:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the wording, but could be better... Sfacets 20:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gmaps 

message: I don't think it has GPS. someone confirm and edit the page —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.98.89.171 (talk • contribs).
:The presentation suggested that it has some sort of location awareness, but I think that if it had GPS, Jobs would have explicitly said GP-freakin-S.  I speculate they may be using an API that Cingular has that offers rough radio triangulation from cell towers.  It's accurate to within a few hundred feet instead of a couple feet like GPS, but cheaper to implement in hardware, if I understand correctly.  I put this speculation here not because it belongs in the article, but because it might help avoid a rash of helpful "IT HAS GPSSSS!!!11!!eleven!" edits to the main article.  Official word from Apple shouldn't be far behind, I'm certain this is something they'll get a lot of questions about. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 22:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I put it in with a citation from MSNBC. — ceejayoz talk 15:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GPS

message: What on earth does this mean (under the 'specifications')?
iPod portion features Cover Flow interface and 3-D effects
Please delineate it there properly! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.12.137.58 (talk) 22:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Meaningless?

message: The iPhone is simply a 2G (or 2.5G due to EDGE) phone with Wi-fi (802.11b/g[]). Why say it's "Beyond 3G"?
The definition given for "Beyond 3G" in the article is for data rates of 100Mbps or more. 802.11g goes up to 54mbps only.
Marcosleal 23:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know exactly, but Jobs mentions in the keynote that they "plan to make 3G phones and all sorts of amazing things in the future" (50min20sec on the Keynote stream).  Also, if the WiFi is Pre-N, then that could possibly reach 100mbps speeds.  I've heard some stuff about a Data standard that Cingular is rolling out that's supposedto be way faster than EDGE too, but I don't know much about that. 24.184.116.156 03:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be HSDPA, most likely. However, until such features are added to the iPhone, it's still only a 2.5G phone. -- Kesh 03:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Beyond 3G? Phone is not even 3G!

message: Folks, remember: The World Will Not End Tomorrow. We're not here to score points, or scoop each other. Slow down, take your time and fact-check before making an edit. I'm as excited about this as anyone else, but we want to make sure we're putting out a good article, instead of a lot of random edits. -- Kesh 00:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slow down! 

message: Hey, I'm trying to read this article and it keeps changing every second! 205.174.22.25 00:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it's a bit crazy. See my post above yours. Folks need to slow down and just let the facts settle rather than posting changes willy-nilly. -- Kesh 01:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fluctuation

message: The whole lead-in paragraph needs rewritten. It's crammed with way too many buzzwords, information that belongs in the Specifications section and just generally is difficult to read. Also, the article needs to stick to announced features and capabilities, not speculation. I admire Wikipedians' fervor to add information, but the article is a bit of a mess right now. -- Kesh 04:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we can worry about that for the moment until details/specifics settle down.  I mean, for an intro to the complete 7 hour history of the official iphone, there really is no need to jump on the change.WasAPasserBy 05:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that the phrase "Apple has filed for 200 patents..." should read "Apple claims to have filed for..." or "Apple CEO Steve Jobs has said that apple filed for..." as the cited source article only quotes Jobs himself from the keynote, not any source that verified the actual number of patents.  This seems like it is too round a number to be perfectly accurate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Onshisan (talk • contribs) 18:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead-in 

message: The article writes that it will be available in Canada in June. I am pretty sure there was no mention of this in the keynote, or did I miss something? 70.80.66.195 04:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Availability in Canada 

message: Already had to cut out "Mike Jones", more vandalism expected. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by KevinCLovesU (talk • contribs) 06:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lock This Page 

message: i read somewhere (i think) that the iphone would include two batteries. one for the mp3 and one for the phone. im not sure if this is correct and how they would manage to fit it into the phone. could someone please confirm or deny this please?
This was from a early rumor site, not from fact. I'd have to watch it again, but I think that Kevin from Digg said it, I'd have to rewatch,  but regardless, its not mentioned under tech specs http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html, so it shouldn't be mentioned.
Does anyone have any info on what the battery specs are beyond the capacity? Are they the same kind used in iPods?, are they replaceable..? Sfacets 22:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Batteries? 

message: I've noticed the disputes that had flared up over the fair use of the promotional images, and I think this would be the best place to discuss the issue more broadly. There are already some images on Flickr posted with free licenses (some legitimately, others not), so I guess the question is, "Do any of them 'adequately give the same information' according to the fair use criteria?" Dancter 08:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  fair use replacements 

message: iPhone should be a redirect to iPhone (disambiguation) page or Linksys iPhone.  I fail to see why wikipedia should endorse trademark violations by linking iPhone to a product that infringes on Cisco's trademark at the time of Steve Job's announcement. Kommodorekerz 10:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Apple has been in talks with Cisco about the trademark for a while now, and both companies expect a deal to be reached very soon 71.251.184.16 10:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That doesn't change the fact that it was an infringement at the time. Kommodorekerz 13:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does not matter, WP:NAME is clear on this. As most people who will go to iPhone will be looking for information on the Apple cellphone, Wikipedia shouldn't care if it infringes on the Cisco trademark or not. Havok (T/C/e/c) 14:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:PRECISION is even clearer on this: "If a word or phrase is ambiguous, and an article concerns only one of the meanings of that word or phrase, it should usually be titled with something more precise than just that word or phrase". This article should be titled iPhone (Apple) or Apple iPhone; for now, iPhone should be a disambiguation page. And if the courts find in Cicso's favour (and I don't see why they shouldn't, seeing as how Apple don't have a legal leg to stand on), "iPhone" should go to iPhone (Linksys). Martin 01:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not a wikipedia editor, but I agree with Martin. iPhone is a legal trademark of Cisco whether Apple buy the rights to it or not. When I typed iPhone (as a test), I was expecting a disambiguation page or straight to Cisco (or even a page about the use of the word "iPhone"). Not my decision, but I think going directly to Apple iPhone is the wrong choice - it screams of POV. 194.203.201.92 11:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed, iPhone should result in a disambiguation page only and be locked 83.67.57.244 11:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

text: WP:PRECISION is a guideline, WP:NAME is official policy. Therefor NAME rules over NC(P). Havok (T/C/e/c) 14:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  iPhone disambiguation proposal 

message: In the keynote, Jobs showed only two applications he called widgets: Weather and Stocks.  The other applications being referred to in this article as "widgets" seem more like full fledged "applications" on the phone.  Are we using the correct terminology here to call all of "SMS, Calendar, Photos, Camera, Calculator, Stocks, Maps, Weather, Notes, and Clock." as Widgets? Mike Koss 11:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and changed the text accordingly. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 12:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Widgets definition 

message: I'm not sure how to write for this section without being redundant with either the infobox or with the Features section. What's in there now seems like an arbitrary restatement of features in odd priority and capitalization. RVJ 11:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Specifications" 

message: Under "Third-Party Development", The article reads:
: Apple has announced that the iPhone will allow the execution of Dashboard widgets.
Apple has said that the iPhone runs "widgets," certainly, but does it run the same widgets as MacOS X Dashboard, and can third-party developers actually load them onto phone without Apple's permission?
Is there any source for the statement in the article? Can we confirm this? (I can find speculation here, but that's about it.)
If there's no source for this statement, I'm going to remove it, or edit it to say the official status is uncertain. emk (talk) 12:02, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I'm really hoping that the iPhone supports third-party widgets, or even better, that it can sync widgets with Leopard (and thus work with Dashcode, etc). I'm not at all optimistic about Cocoa widgets, because that would essentially open the phone up to full programmability. But so far, no official word on third-party widgets, Cocoa or otherwise. Maybe it's worth bugging Apple Developer Services, to see if we can get a straight answer? emk (talk) 14:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Since they are so fond of saying that the iPhone runs Safari, since they are calling the iPhone widgets "widgets" & since my understanding is that Dashboard widgets can run in Safari; I'm hopeful that--even though there may be some differences between iPhone widgets & Dashboard widgets--that they are essentially the same thing. In fact, it's an easy way to allow 3rd-party development while keeping it sandboxed. But, yeah, it's all speculation right now. If the iPhone really does have the full Safari, though, there are plenty of "applications" that won't need to be loaded directly onto the device. --Malirath 17:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question re: Third-party Dashboard Widgets 

message: somebody should post about where the speakers are Bobguy89 13:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well logic dictates that at least the opening for the speaker for handset operation is located above the LCD (in portrait mode). I doubt that a different speaker is used for handsfree and Video/Audio playback. Remember that the iPhone has a sensor (the proximity sensor) to detect that the user is using the device as a phone, so the volume can be automatically adjusted for both modes. But in fact there is no real information about the speaker released, (as far as I know) so this is still speculative. I wrote a bit about this in the article, but it was removed and replaced by the single sentence "The loudspeaker is used both for handsfree operations and media playback." and in truth this is all that is really known at this time. Mahjongg 02:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  speakers 

message: Is 4:6 widescreen?  I thought that term was reserved for 16:9 (or maybe 16:10?).  cacophony ◄► 15:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct, it is not true wide screen as evident in the presentation the other day.  --70.48.68.147 20:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While "widescreen" might be specific technical jargon in some contexts, I wouldn't expect such a meaning to extend to all usage of the word. Especially usage in a company's marketing. I think it's safe to assume here it means nothing more than "wider than previous iPod screens". --Malirath 17:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The screen ratio is 3:2, whereas the "old" video iPod has a ratio of 4:3. By this definition (widescreen being 16:9 or even 16:10 ), it's not true widescreen. Here's a comparison chart: :Image:Video_Standards.svg  -- Eptin 06:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So what should be changed?  Change it to "semi-widescreen"?  "Wider screen"?  Or just say "screen", and add a note about it being wider than the ipod screen?  cacophony ◄► 20:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Ahh, that's better. Thank you very much! -- Kesh 04:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Widescreen" video 

message: Flickr has this image and this image.  I'm not sure about exactly which CC images are OK, but I think thes are OK.  The current images are not OK. - Peregrine Fisher 20:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Noone responded when I commented on the issue earlier. I was even about to delete my comment. CC-BY-SA is definitely OK. To be extremely nitpicky, pretty much all the iPhone images on Flickr marked with free licenses have some possible copyright issues (the Apple logo, copyrighted imagery displayed on-screen, recognizable images of random people displayed in the background), but the photos themselves are freely licensed, and could be in principle be edited to be completely free. Dancter 20:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Go for it. Just as long as they're free use because, bottom line, free use images should ALWAYS replace fair use images. Roguegeek (talk) 21:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I commented on that, too. There are still some things I'm unclear about, though. Even it it wasn't suitable for Commons, wasn't the image still preferable as a more free image? Or is principle that copyrighted is copyrighted, and free is free, and it doesn't matter how much? Dancter 01:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images that meet WPs requirements. 

message: I resized and re-cropped the image of the iPhone displaying Safari and uploaded it last night. I 'thought' I used the license for 'Macintosh Software' but it didn't seem to note that with the upload. I just got a message that the image is listed for deletion. I don't know much about Wiki copyright and licensing requirements, so perhaps somone who does can do what is needed. - Thanks FAAFA (I want an iPhone NOW) 21:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image  I uploaded listed for deletion 

message: From David Pogue's hands-on:
:"The phone won’t be available until June, so some of its software isn’t finished yet. As I tapped my way into obscure corners of the phone, Mr. Jobs pointed out a couple of spots where only a placeholder graphic was available."
:"The refresh rate felt typical of a camera-phone to me, but Mr. Jobs said that it would be much smoother by the time the phone is done."
Link AlistairMcMillan 21:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the iPhone is out but not available for purchase until June. So would you say that this is a 'future' product because people cannot get one now but some people at Apple have it. Or is it just semantics and technicalities that we like to enforce upon ourselves? Just wondering if a product needs to be available for purchase in order for it not to be a 'future' product. Protector of the Truth 23:08, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Any product that is not yet available for purchase is a future product. Until meets a shipping date and is on sale, it counts as a future product. -- Kesh 04:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  future product template 

message: At the moment the article only mentions that the iPhone can play Mp3's. Conceviably it can play everything (and more?) an iPod video can... of course this is only speculation unless we can find sources... Sfacets 22:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: File formats

message: The criticism section mentioned an article published in APC Magazine, and stated that the magazine was an MSN publication.  The magazine is published by Australian Consolidated Press.  ACP's parent company PBL co-owns the ninemsn portal, which is why there is a banner for it at the top of the APC Magazine website.
Since the attribution is incorrect, and there was no comment left when the attribution was added (diff), I've removed it.
My guess is that the text was added to discredit the article by association with one of Apple's chief competitors --James 09:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  APC Magazine Publisher 

message: If we are to describe "criticism" of the iPhone, we ought to describe also the extraordinarily positive response in the press. Section marked as a POV violation. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 17:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, we need something that's fair and balanced.  I'd say that many of those criticisms could be very real, however some of them seem to be meant to cause FUD.  There's been some phenominal reviews out already, and we need to collect some of the other side of the story - JustinWick 18:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV warning 

message: Be Objective, do not threathen to block users who are trying to be objective.
Fact: the name iPhone belongs to a existing product. Show at least both products before you give more information. This is a Encyclopedia and not a PR forum for Apple fanboys! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.90.13.169 (talk • contribs).
:It is noted in the very begin and in the Trademark part. I think it's enough. --Have a nice day. Running 19:14, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: show facts not whishes

message: I requested a semi-protection for this article, I hope it will protect it from all these vandals. --Have a nice day. Running 18:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandals 

message: This is a Encyclopedia and not a PR instrument for Apple Inc.
A reference to iPhone should start with the name of a existing product as is the case since 1997. Linksys is the trademark holder and as such should be named at least first. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WikisedEN (talk • contribs).
:Nor is the article an instrument for Cisco employees to express displeasure. There are established guidelines for naming and disambiguation (let alone talk page civility). --ZimZalaBim (talk) 19:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And I can say it again. It is noted in the very begin (For the line of Internet appliances, see iPhone (Linksys).) and in the Trademark part. I think it's enough. I hope it's the last time I have to repeat it. --Have a nice day. Running 19:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

text: First of all, it's not censorship, and the insinuation that it is is quite improper and maligns the intent of the folks involved.  Second, please review the WP:NAME article to see why the article is structured the way it is now.  If the iPhone from Apple and the iPhone from Cisco were of roughly the same stature, then a disambiguation page would be appropriate.  But they ain't, not by a loooooooong shot, and I believe that's what the proponents of the current name are saying.  For example, take a look at Big Ben.  By your logic, it should go to Big Ben (disambiguation).  But that's doesn't seem sensible, because folks are many orders of magnitude more likely to be wanting to know about the clock tower at Westminster, not the 1930s tobacco or the canadian WWII writer. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

text: It is noted in the very begin (For the line of Internet appliances, see iPhone (Linksys).) and in the Trademark part. I think it's enough. I hope it's the last time I have to repeat it. --Have a nice day. Running 19:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a precedent: PSP points to a disambiguation page, although Sony has trademarked PSP. We have a history of stupid disambiguation pages, like PC. However, in this particular case, I believe this article should be here, as the casual reader is more likely to search for the Apple product than the Linksys one. -- ReyBrujo 21:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree, also note that the PSP disambiguation page has 26 different meanings for PSP, the iPhone disambiguation page would only have two. The currents solution of a link to Cisco's product is enough. Mahjongg 02:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Not good!. 

message: Why is there a review section?  Hardly anyone has even physically touched iPhone, let alone reviewed it.  This section also contains references to problems with iPhone that amount to pure speculation, yet is presented as  "review." Sjenkins7000 23:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pogue from the NYT, and at least one other reviewer, did get about an hour with the device after launch. But most, I'm sure, are really just speculation and unreliable original research on their own part, and probably should be deleted. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 23:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Review section

message: As I recall seeing reports from the time of Job's address Apple hadn't (at the time) got permission from the relevant federal agency: "This device has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission".  Has Apple got the green light yet? Kommodorekerz 03:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It takes a few months to get FCC approval for a new electronic communication device. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 03:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Will it also affect worldwide availability? Kommodorekerz 04:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Different countries/unions have their own regulatory bodies. But this is off-topic for this talk page.... --ZimZalaBim (talk) 04:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

text:  I know different countries have their own regulation.  I was just wondering whether (speculate for a moment) a failure to get authorizations from FCC would affect Apple's incentive to manufacture this gadget to the point that it will not be available both inside and outside the US. Kommodorekerz 05:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Failure to get FCC approval is unlikely, and again, this talk page is supposed to be about this article, not speculation about the topic itself. I'm sure there are discussion forums for such speculation. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 13:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is relevant, however, that Apple currently does not have FCC approval. That needs to be noted in the article, but we cannot speculate on whether it will be approved or not.--HereToHelp 13:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is (and has been for a while) mentioned in the lede section. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 18:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Has Apple got the go-ahead from Federal agency? 

message: Perhaps we should merge the two product articles together into one article that details both products equally and without bias. This removes most confusion and ambiguity, and follows all the WP rules I'm aware of that pertain to this issue. Plus, this will be a great way to show just HOW the products are different regardless of any trademark and copyright issues. We could even include two seperate lists of product specifications and features that will most likely show both similarities and differences. Cynthia18 18:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This doesn't make sense, it'd be like merging all the Big Ben articles together.  In that case, should we have an article that compares how the watch tower clock at Westminster is different from a 1930s tobacco and how those two are different from a canadian writer about WWII? - CHAIRBOY (☎) 18:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But in this case, there aren't several very different products or 'things' being talked about. I wasn't aware that people often thinking about that big clock tower in Westminster get things confused with a WWII author or tobacco line. In this case, there is (and has been especially for me) much confusion regarding these very similar products. I just think it would be helpful to show HOW these products are different whereas everyone could tell the difference between a can of snuff and a gigantic tower or a writer. Cynthia18 18:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: iPhone - One Name, Two Products

message: Apple iPhone Fansite  Unofficial Fan Site that has potential.
Impostal22 05:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 3 problems: "unofficial", "fan site", and "potential". If it gets some nice info, we can add it, but doesn't amount to much at this point. Scepia 05:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  external link 

message: The lowercase tag is not showing for me in Firefox. Anyone having that problem? Solution? --ZimZalaBim (talk) 19:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By that do you mean the text that says the page is incorrectly titled?  If so, that only shows up now in browsers that do not support Javascript and CSS, as the default behavior of the template is to fix the titling — check out the name of the article at the top left.  It's "iPhone", whereas without the template it would be "IPhone". —bbatsell ¿? 20:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Duh - sorry, my mistake. It was odd, however, that it does show up for me when I preview changes, but just not in the final. If you need to revert my tweaking with the order, go ahead. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 20:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  lowercase tag problem 

message: Existing a "freer" image that gives as much information as the promotional one, there is no doubt. The first point of our Fair use criteria is very clear. There was an image that did not have the GUI, if I find it, I will change this one with that one because it is a fully free one. -- ReyBrujo 21:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. Fair use says that if no image can provide the same information. A blank screen would not show much about iPhone, and would not be encyclopedic. Scepia 21:52, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: I recently removed  mention that Job's demo call on the iPhone was a "prank call" to Starbucks. The editor who placed it notified me  s/he wants to put it back since it "is just the kind of content that will interest readers." While there is all kinds of content that might be of interest to readers, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and the content/context of this call is, IMO, not of encyclopedia value. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 22:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed this content in the past as well.  "First prank call" is hardly encyclopedic information... it's a Steve Jobs parlour trick.  What's next, do we note how many times the audience applauded on cue whenever Jobs stopped talking?  On top of that, we don't even know if the call was real or not.  -/- Warren 22:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prank call