Talk:Afro-Mexicans

message: I see no POV problem with the article, some tough talk but nothing untrue or problematic POV. Since I doubt anyone wil be reading this I am going to remove it now. Please don't be angry. :D
george 02:53, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality msg

message: There are many books and writings by this man (Marco Polo Hernandez Cuevas).  The one that is most popular right now is,”African Mexicans and the Discourse on Modern Nation"  It is a good read;  he has another book coming out.
It is interesting reading all of the discussions on line, makes me happy and proud. :) 
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/That Girl (talk) 07:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is interesting 

message: I would like to see a source placed for the claim that Zapata was Afro-Mexican. I've never even heard of this assumption. Can anyone shed light on the matter? If not I'd like to see this challenged. DeathRattle101 (talk) 06:17, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Zapata was Nahua Indigenous Mexican, probably not "pure blooded", but it is documented that he spoke Nahuatl as did most people from Anenecuilco. Actually there are fairly few Afro-Mexicans in inland Morelos, being an inland state. The section has to be changed since it is nowhere near commonly accepted that Zapata had any Afro-Mxican heritage. IF reliable sources to the claim are introduced it still merits no morer than a mention about "speculations and theories that Zapata might have been Afro-Mexican".·Maunus· ·ƛ· 10:11, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed th Zapata section which has remained un-referenced for over a week now.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 10:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emiliano Zapata 

message: Nowhere have I read the number of blacks in Mexico is one million.  It seems as though the estimates are coming from projections made from the census taken during Colonial Mexico.  None of the links work or signify anything close to a million blacks in Mexico.  Is anyone going to change it to something documented?Saopabs83 (talk) 05:02, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number and Links 

message: I've removed the section entitled "African Mexicans and the Discourse on Modern Mexico". It is an essay and in fact a copy right violation. It's a verbatim copy of the homonimous book introduction, as can be seen in google books, page xiii.
I've removed the section titled "Costa Chica communities" because it was in violation of Wikipedia's rules: Wikipedia:No original research. Plus the section did not provide any sources to verify it's claims and it appears to have been written based on one person's mere speculations. Ocelotl10293 (talk) 10:28, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section removed 

message: Hey.  Just wanted to call some attention to some articles cited in Wikipedia's "Mestizo" article/page which pertain to African admixture within the general Mexican (and Mexican-descended) population-- look under a heading which mentions "African Admixture."  They could be useful for the Afro-Mexican page.69.235.166.4 (talk) 20:33, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles Within the Mestizo Discussion Page 

message: The recent inclusion of pictures of Melvin Brown, Giovani dos Santos and Pio Pico illustrate a basic problem with this article. None of those persons would probably define themselves as Afro-Mexicans. Melvin Brown's "African ancestry" comes form his jamaican grandfather, Giovani dos Santos' comes from his brazilian father and Pio Pico's grandmother was a "mulata". Classifying them as afro-mexican only makes sense if applying the "one-drop-rule" and at the same time if applying the one drop rule the term afro-mexican loses any usefulness it might have had since EVERYONE has african ancestry when taken far enough into the past. The article simply invents a category of Afro-Mexicans and then define people into that category without referencing or arguing for those claims and without regarding whether these people themselves defined as afrmexicans or not. Basically the articles problem is OR and indeed the title itself may be OR. ·Maunus·ƛ· 13:38, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Problems with this article

message: I take issue with the statement that the African cultural contribution was "not significant" to "mainstream" Mexican culture.  It may be subtle compared to, for example, Cuba's African cultural heritage, but this does not render it insignificant.  Much of the traditional Mexican music is very significantly African.  The "son jarocho" and "son jalisciense" all feature a rhythmic base of 6/8 tempo, along with "call and response" vocals, all of which are considered of West African origin.  The "son jalisciense" and "son huasteco/huapango" also feature alternating rhythms, which is also considered to be African-influenced.  Even the famous dish "menudo" is said to have an African origin (similar to chitterlings in the U.S.).  To whoever last edited this article: please consider revising the statement regarding the significance of African heritage in relation to Mexican culture (underneath the "Admixed Population" section).  Thank you.69.235.130.208 (talk) 14:52, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Significant African Contributions to Mexican Culture

message: Giovani Dos Santos doesn't technically count as Afro-Mexican, he is Brazilian-Mexican. Does this article include recent immigrants with African heritage? I also removed the claim that there are 1 million afro-Mexicans living in Mexico, this statistic is just plain absurd, there is no way there can be that many blacks in Mexico and go unnoticed by Mexican society for centuries (1800-2000). I haven't found any source that even makes an attempt as accurately estimating their number. Ocelotl10293 (talk) 04:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is very obvious that many Africans eventually mixed with indigenous, Spanish and other ethnic groups while in Mexico. Many Mexicans as well as many other ethnic groups don’t want to claim having black in them so of course that’s the reason for the error in the census. MzKnight78 (talk) 07:08, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

text: I agree MzKnight78 (talk) 07:05, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Do recent immigrants count?

message: I see that many vaguely Afro-descended Americans that may or may not have Mexican ancestry are being included in this article. First of all, this article deals only with Afro-Mexicans, meaning Mexicans with full, predominant or at least half African ancestry who are within the Mexican cultural sphere. If there is a mixed race individual living in the United States who happens to have Mexican and African ancestry as a consequence of admixture outside of Mexico or it's culture and does not identify as Mexican, nor speak the language or practice the Mexican culture then this individual is not Afro-Mexican; he/she would be a mixed race American but not a Mexican at all. Also... Recent immigrants from Cuba or the Caribbean living in Mexico do not count as Afro-Mexicans. René Muñoz for example has acted in Mexican Telenovelas and lived in Mexico yet he is not considered Afro-Mexican, but rather, Cuban-Mexican. Only those individuals who identify as Mexicans CULTURALLY and have significant African ancestry classify as Afro-Mexicans. Also included in the Article are historic African descended individuals of Mexican History such as Gaspar Yanga . Ocelotl10293 (talk) 23:46, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. This article is meant to inform on the ethnic group within Mexico, the inclusion of black Mexican-Americans is inappropriate as it goes beyond the scope of the article. This latter group is notable enough to warrant its own article, however it definitely should not be part of this one. A quick google search reveals that for reputable sources (including the ones currently used in the article), the term 'Afro-Mexican' and 'afromexicano' are used to refer specifically to the black population in Mexico. Xochiztli (talk) 19:38, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is about a Mexican sub-group, all other ethnicities or nationalities excluded 

message: A head's up to interested editors that I will be cleaning up the "Notable Afro-Mexicans" section today. Any entries that are not sourced either in this article, or in the associated biography article will be removed per WP:BLP and WP:V. All of the entries will still be viewable in the article history and can be restored as long as they contain a reliable source. --Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 13:57, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intent to remove unreferenced entries 

message: The user named Ponyo claims that "Afro Mexican" is a term used to refer to people of mixed African and "Mexican" descent. But the term "Afro Mexican" is just used here on Wikipedia (and very rarely elsewhere) for conveniance to denote blacks in Mexico. And anyways, what is "Mexican descent"? Is it mestizo, Amerindian, or white? People like Shar Jackson are NOT "Afro-Mexicans". The claim that Afro Mexicans are people of mixed African and "Mexican" ancestry is original research not supported by any trusty sources. User Ponyo, please stop putting original research in the Afro-Mexican article. The named "Afro-Mexican" itself was created here (and probably used in the Spanish language with very few frequency, in other words, it's used rarely, if ever).--76.83.14.207 (talk) 00:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not create this article, as a matter a fact I pruned many of the unsourced additions out of the article. If you have an issue with the term "Afro-Mexican" (which by the way brings back more than 1.8 million hits on Google), then you need to gain consensus to change the article. You cannot simply blank sourced content that you do not agree with. I would suggest you start a request for comment to see how others feel on the topic.--Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 00:43, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The only sources shown by Ponyo are the ones that say that Shar Jackson, and all those other mixed black and "Mexican" descent people are indeed of mixed African and "Mexican" descent. There is ABSOLUTELY NO source that says that the term "Afro Mexican" is used to refer to people of mixed African and "Mexican" descent. Besides, Alvaro Carrillo, Kalimba, and all those other people I put are Afro-Mexicans (actual people of black African descent from Mexico or raised in Mexico or both). If the term "Afro Mexican" really referred to people of black African/Mexican heritage, then that would be ignorant because Mexican is not a race. The term "Afro Mexican" is used in websites on the Internet to refer to people like Gaspar Yanga, aka blacks in Mexico, it's not used to refer to people like Shar Jackson. I don't have a problem with having the term Afro-Mexican, I have a problem with you saying on the article that the term is used to refer to people of black and "Mexican" ancestry. If it is, then prove it with a RELIABLE source. --76.83.14.207 (talk) 00:36, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New edits 

message: I created a table based on the recent data from INEGI's Encuesta Intercensal 2015, namely the detailed spreadsheet found on INEGI's website: 
http://www3.inegi.org.mx/sistemas/tabuladosbasicos/default.aspx?c=33725&s=est
The problem is that I don't know how to cite an Excel spreadsheet, can someone help me with that? The table I created is below:
State              	Afro-Mexicans	Partial Afro-Mexicans	Total Afro-descendants
Mexico             	1.16%        	0.5%                 	1.66%
Aguascalientes     	0.5%         	0.35%                	0.4%
Baja California    	0.22%        	0.31%                	0.53%
Baja California Sur	1.55%        	0.72%                	2.27%
Campeche           	.39%         	.76%                 	1.15%
Coahuila           	.09%         	.28%                 	.37%
Colima             	.11%         	.47%                 	.58%
Chiapas            	.08%         	.33%                 	.41%
Chihuahua          	.08%         	.25%                 	.33%
Distrito Federal   	1.8%         	.53%                 	2.33%
Durango            	.01%         	.64%                 	.65%
Guanajuato         	.03%         	.31%                 	.34%
Guerrero           	6.5%         	1.11%                	7.61%
Hidalgo            	.07%         	.54%                 	.61%
Jalisco            	.78%         	.35%                 	1.13%
Estado de México   	1.88%        	.45%                 	2.33%
Michoacán          	.08%         	.51%                 	.59%
Morelos            	.42%         	.49%                 	.91%
Nayarit            	.06%         	.24%                 	.30%
Nuevo Leon         	1.49%        	.36%                 	1.85%
Oaxaca             	4.95%        	.94%                 	5.89%
Puebla             	.12%         	.47%                 	.59%
Querétaro          	.12%         	.38%                 	.50%
Quintana Roo       	.56%         	.71%                 	1.27%
San Luis Potosí    	.04%         	.51%                 	.55%
Sinaloa            	.04%         	.24%                 	.28%
Sonora             	.06%         	.30%                 	.36%
Tabasco            	.11%         	.92%                 	1.03%
Tamaulipas         	.29%         	.36%                 	.65%
Tlaxcala           	.06%         	.44%                 	.50%
Veracruz           	3.28%        	.79%                 	4.07%
Yucatán            	.12%         	.89%                 	1.01%
Zacatecas          	.02%         	.32%                 	.34%
Hihellowhatsup (talk) 01:50, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chart of Afro-Mexicans by state 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Afro-Mexicans. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930190948/http://www.sacm.org.mx/archivos/biografias.asp?txtSocio=08636 to http://www.sacm.org.mx/archivos/biografias.asp?txtSocio=08636
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141218212117/http://www.johnnylaboriel.com/info/Biografia_de_Johnny_Laboriel.html to http://www.johnnylaboriel.com/info/Biografia_de_Johnny_Laboriel.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120503043029/http://www.nacionmulticultural.unam.mx/Afromexicanos/introduccion.html to http://www.nacionmulticultural.unam.mx/Afromexicanos/introduccion.html
*Added  tag to http://www.rtv.org.mx/2011/10/07/afromestizaje-prevalece-en-veracruz/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: All Mexicans with African ancestors are Afro-Mexicans, being Black or not.--MonFrontieres (talk) 16:28, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: User:MonFrontieres, No. Your assertion is Wikipedia:Original research and is not at all supported by the sources. Neither the government nor news sources nor NGOs use your definition. "Afromexicano/Afro-Mexicans" is used specifically to refer to the populace that self-identifies with black African ancestry. Do not base your edits on usage of similar terms in other countries: this article is specific to Mexico. Xochiztli (talk) 23:07, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Afro-Mexican 

message: This article is riddled with cultural-marxist dogma's terminology, should be revised and all terms like "internalized racism" be replaced  Xochiztli (talk) 23:07, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newspeak 

message: I’m assuming “palenques” are similar to quilombos in Brazil, but the link takes you to the archaeological site of “Palenque” itself. 2600:1702:2150:1A61:744A:7A09:8FD8:3D45 (talk) 20:50, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palenques  

message: There is no doubt Afro-Mexicans existed in the colonial period. The existed in Mexico as they existed in Spain at the time. But their their modern-day existence is questioned by population genetics. Should the fact that their numbers may be exaggerated discussed here? After all, anyone with darkish skin and wavy hair in Mexico may self-identify as Afro-Mexican even though genetically he may have just 10 or 15% African ancestry. Actual Black Mexicans are basically the children or grandchildren of foreigners - normally Caribbean or coastal Central America. The idea that there is a native community of black Mexicans in Mexico is very questionable. I have lived many years in Mexico - the parts where they are supposed to exist, and I have never seen one. There is also the idea that Vicente Guerrero was black. Where does this come from? There is literally no evidence that he was black and the only description we have of him defines him as someone with "tan" skin, light eyes and a hooked nose (Morelos knew him personally and that was his description). We should perhaps consider that Africans in Mexico are more a leftist ideological construct than anything else. --Php2000 (talk) 16:59, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Afro-Mexicans as an ideological construct? 

message: They mention that African cultural contribution wasn’t significant enough to influence Mexican culture. I don’t think this statement should be included in this article because I have made so many connections between the two cultures. I know for a fact that the music played and created in Mexico has some of the same beat counts as many African songs. There is also a lot of African influence on Mexican cuisine. I know the famous Mexican drink named Jamaica is known as bissap in Senegal, sobolo in Ghana, or zobo in Nigeria. This drink is one of the most famous in Mexico because it is usually paired with any dish. It is a sweet hibiscus drink that is usually paired with street food like tacos or quesadillas. I know there are many other traditional plates where we often use many of the same ingredients that are used in African dishes like yucca, plantains, etc.
This is very important because Mexicans are often ignoring their African roots and fail to realize that they can see these connections by simply looking at the dishes they serve.--Sekanijoy10 (talk) 05:23, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  African Influence On Mexican Culture 

message: The 2020 Housing Survey in Mexico revealed a larger amount of people identifying as either Afro-Mexican or Afro-descended Mexican. However, this statistic is seemingly not split. Or perhaps it is, I don't speak fluent Spanish so I am unsure of how to proceed with it. It should definitely replace the current chart we have whether it can be divided or not.
https://www.inegi.org.mx/programas/ccpv/2020/tableros/panorama/
- Maketrad
I will update accordingly Maketrad. This article is in terrible shape. I´ll add it to my watch list and incorporate quality sources. --Yanga Veracruz (talk) 15:53, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  New 2020 Numbers 

message: I'm going to restructure the history section of the article based on time periods: 1) Conquest 2) Early Colonial Era (1530-1590), 3) Mid-Colonial Era (1590-1700), 4) Late Colonial Era (1700-1800), 5) Pre-Independence Period (1800-1821), 6) Independence (1821) All other sections (Catholic Church, Economy etc.) can be converted into standalone sections rather than subsections of the history section since they do not relate to any specific time period. If anyone has any feedback, disagreement or additional ideas, let me know before I start. I will add additional sourced information from a study on the Transatlantic slave trade in Mexico by Mexican Historian Antonio García de León, History Professor and Researcher at the National Autonomous University of Mexico. This is a link to his LinkedIn profile. I would eventually like to include a section on taxation, as Afro-Mexicans were subject to a discriminatory fiscal regime during the colonial period.  Yanga Veracruz (talk) 13:49, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume from the lack of responses since the 16th of December than no one following this article has an issue with my proposal so will proceed with a redraft. --Yanga Veracruz (talk) 15:22, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restructuring the History Section 

message: — Assignment last updated by Profmexhist (talk) 15:22, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Modern Mexico

message: According to data from 2013, Afro-Mexicans constitute 2% of black immigrants in the USA, which ranks much higher (12th) than many other countries, including those from England and many West Indian + African countries, to say nothing of other European countries which aren't even listed.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2015/04/09/a-rising-share-of-the-u-s-black-population-is-foreign-born/ 2603:6011:A400:259:3065:D186:D5EA:9CAF (talk) 14:20, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diaspora in the United States of America  

message: — Assignment last updated by Naviarfoster (talk) 20:36, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: ARH 371_The TransAtlantic_Cross-Cultural Representations