Talk:Profiles in Courage

message: Did Kennedy actually write this? Kingturtle 03:10, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact is, no one knows for sure. We know what Sorensen claims, which may or may not be true, but that's all we know, and all that is worthy of note in an encyclopedia article. Attempts to say in the article it is a fact that Sorensen wrote the book or any part of it should  be deleted, and I have fixed the lede to reflect this. It may be that the article needs additional trimming, since a substantial portion is not about the substance of the book but about the claims of authorship made by various parties.  Jusdafax  01:28, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Your statement: "We know what Sorensen claims, ... but that's all we know." is inaccurate. There had been doubts about Kennedy's authorship long before Sorensen's 2008 autobiography. There is also the account of historian Jules Davids, who also worked on the book, and the material in the Kennedy Library that convinced historians Garry Wills and Herbert Parmet that Kennedy organized and supervised, but did little of the actual writing. You are correct that "no one knows for sure", and therefore it should not be stated as a fact, but the preponderance of evidence appears to support a limited role for Kennedy in the actual writing of the book. Plazak (talk) 20:08, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Plazak is correct about this. Both Garry Wills and Herbert Parmet wrote extensively about Sorensen's involvement in writing the book as far back as the early 1980s. In numerous interviews over the years, Sorensen, as he admitted, never stated directly that he hadn't written large sections of the book, but instead essentially claimed that the author of a book is the person who puts their name on the cover, and thus JFK was the author. I would think if Ted Sorensen, one of JFK's closest aides, described in detail in his own autobiography the role he played in the creation of Profiles in Courage, then that should be strong evidence of what actually occurred in the production of the book.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.145.229.162 (talk) 00:42, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: “The fact is, no one knows for sure. We know what Sorensen claims, which may or may not be true, but that's all we know, and all that is worthy of note in an encyclopedia article.” Jusdafax 01:28, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

text: There are countless cases historically where we don’t know for sure what happened. This is not one of them. Maybe you ought to study the matter, instead of harrumphing about things about which you know nothing. 2604:2000:1580:4139:0:D54B:FA08:974D (talk) 08:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

text: The first post here has the word controversy in it. The discussion has been about the controversy for over 14 years. There has even been disagreement over whether it is a controversy or not. Someone explain to me how it's accepted as a controversy yet the prase in the lead of the article includes "In his 2008 autobiography, Kennedy's speechwriter Ted Sorensen said he had written most of the book under Kennedy's guidance." with absolutely no source given at all. I need an explanation to keep me from removing it as a total violation of Wikipedia's most basic guidelines about proper sourcing claims with reliable sources. It doesn't even line up with the wiki page on Sorenson's book or the sole reference on that page to a Washington Post piece about political memoirs that mentions the book in passing. Nobody uses Sorenson's actual book. It can be seen as revisionist because it claims that Sorenson wrote most of the book, regardless of whether it was under Kennedy's guidance at all. The claims as written is not anywhere to be found, not even in the Washinton Post article. The book Profiles in Courage has Kennedy name on it as an author. I may be accepted lore that Sorenson played some role because he was a brilliant speech writer but to extend that to a claim that he wrote most of the book is. But Wikipedia doesn't traffic in lore about recent important history figues. If the kind of thing if it should be anywhere in the article, it should not be in the lead. It can be seen as an attempt to undermine Kenedy before discussion fo the book even begins.Jackhammer111 (talk) 05:48, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: There is indeed a controversy about whether Kennedy wrote the book, and has been for decades. The phrase in the lead you criticize is from Sorensen's 2008 memoir Counselor, and is thus certainly a credible source under Wikipedia guidelines and should not have been removed. To claim that "nobody uses Sorensen's actual book" is simply absurd; as Kennedy's main speechwriter, and one of his top aides throughout his presidency, Sorensen is most certainly a credible source. There are numerous other JFK biographies by legitimate historians which have also concluded that Sorensen and historian Jules Davids did nearly all of the writing, including Garry Wills, Herbert Parmet, and Robert Dallek. Indeed, it is not too much to say that the general consensus among historians today is that while Kennedy provided the idea for the book and named the politicians to be profiled, it was Sorensen and Davids that did most of the actual research and writing. Richard Aldous, in his recent biography of historian and JFK aide Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., also gives an extended discussion of Sorensen's role in writing Profiles in Courage. Personal opinions or admiration for an historical figure should not lead to credible sources or claims being arbitrarily deleted because an editor doesn't like what the sources are saying. The "controversy" over the authorship of Profiles in Courage is well-discussed in historical literature at this point and, frankly, not mentioning the controversy at all in the lead is rather misleading, as is flatly stating that "Kennedy is credited as the author", especially given the evidence cited in later sections of the article. His name is certainly on the cover as the author, but the story is rather more complicated than that, and some mention of the controversy should be included in the lead section, given its historical prominence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:A000:1011:C156:4884:1355:5AF3:1F7B (talk) 05:33, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  ghost writer controversy 

message: Why is there no ISBN?
John Quincy Adams WAS a Senator...he served the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in the U.S senate from 1803 until 1808  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.37.2.237 (talk) 04:55, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  misc 

message: I thought I remembered him being in there; perhaps he was mentioned but not totally profiled? Or was there a later edition? Or am I just thinking of someplace else?99.97.81.20 (talk) 00:23, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Oscar W. Underwood]]?

message: When was this book first published? The first paragraph has 1957, the infobox 1955, the categories 1956. The first date in the WorldCat entry is 1948. ––– Robina Fox (talk) 02:54, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: His work promotes the legendary status of Kennedy in a way that is far from neutral.2601:447:4100:1BE0:C0B5:5AFD:35B8:7A5 (talk) 17:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: I Do Not Consider Frederick Logevall To Be A Qualified Or Reliable Source

message: Please don't erase information about him that is reliable and constructive.2601:447:4100:1BE0:C0B5:5AFD:35B8:7A5 (talk) 18:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Jules Davids Should Be Included More In The Article Too