Talk:Batangas

message: Arman Sanchez is the present governor of Batangas for 2004-2007. Hermilando Mandanas is Congressman. --203.177.177.69 11:31, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hermilando Mandanas 

message: Do we really need these sections here? Doesn't it look like advertising? I'm removing those sections. Feel free to revert if you think the sections are acceptable. --124.6.182.190 12:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am 124.6.182.190. I forgot to login, sorry. --Joseph Montalbo 12:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Sections "Batangas Universities" and "Shopping Centers" 

message: 200px vs.  --Howard the Duck 16:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rip off? 

message: This article may be outdated for current events and issues and further lack of reliable references. Available or suitable images for this article must be concern also. User: Kampfgruppe will help to fix those problems. Just wait for it may last too long. Kampfgruppe (talk) 15:42, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help to Perform 

message: I'm wondering about the text "first class province" used to describe Batangas in the introduction to the article. Does this phrase actually refer to an established distinction between different kinds of provinces, such as first-, second-, third class and so on? Or is it, as I tend to suspect, a non-objective insertion of praise for Batangas that is out of place in an encyclopedic article like this? 
Kiwehtin (talk) 22:14, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking the same thing.  This needs to be removed unless anyone can references to a province class system.  --Khatores (talk) 23:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "First class province" in introductory section 

message: Batangas is popularly known for its best destinations. One of those is Laiya, located at the Municipality of San Juan, Batangas. Its long beach shore and its white sand make everyone's favorite. You have nothing to do but amaze and compare Laiya to Boracay. Laiya can give you experiences that you are looking for.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.223.71 (talk) 11:35, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Laiya, nexts to Boracay 

message: This article is much too long. I would suggest removing the history section and creating a separate article. --Bruce Hall (talk) 16:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Split History Section into a separate article?

message: This article reads like it was ripped word-for-word from some provincial promotional material. It should be re-written so that the tone is more objective and fitting with the standard are an encyclopedia.  Unfortunately, this is a common affliction of many of the articles on Philippine provinces and municipalities. --Bruce Hall (talk) 16:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Written like a promotional flyer

message: The Philippine educational system and the subsequent history being taught in Philippine textbooks are at the minimum - western oriented and at the most - racially biased.
The core idea in the current version of Philippine history is " the Philippines was a group of Islands that were ruled by Rajah's, Datu and chieftains - independent of each other and that the Filipinos did not have a civilization or political interaction with the rest of the world until Magellan came"
Similarly - the Oral sources of history have been discounted as hoax due to the lack of hard documentation. Consequently, - the Filipino historian do not do research on leads supplied by these oral histories.
In the case of the Maragtas - it has been erroneously labeled as a hoax. But what is the Maragtas??
The Maragtas are a collection of Oral stories that was compiled by Pedro Alcantara Monteclaro and published in 1907. On Monteclaro's foreword he said that the stories are remnants of stories being told by the elders of his community. The Maragtas saw limited use by historians due to the espoused view by William Henry Scott that the Maragtas is a fabrication by Pedro Monteclaro. 
William Henry Scott's assertion that the Maragtas is a pure fabrication has to be critically evaluated. Scott has claimed that the Maragtas cannot be supported by written documentation. However, Scott has failed to evaluate the contents of the Maragtas scientifically and has failed to grasp the Maragtas contextually (i.e. based on culture, customs and modes of transmission of knowledge by Filipinos). 
Let us then take a look at the merits of the Maragtas.
First,
The Maragtas according to Pedro Monteclaro is a record of "oral" histories. As such it has no written documentation. The idea of oral histories was not prevalent or given weight during the Spanish and American colonial times given that western historical tradition usually relied on written histories to transmit knowledge. Malays on the other hand used chants and epic to transmit knowledge rather than putting important histories on paper.
The reason for this is that paper and plant materials tend to rot and degrade faster in the humid and hot climates of south east asia. Thus the ancient Hiligaynon developed their history in an oral tradition by creating the "Binukot". The binukot are women of royal parentage who's main function in society is to study and memorize the history of her people. They are not allowed to work and are supported by the people of the community. In fact, binukot are married into the richest families who have proven their ability to support a binukot. Thus binukots are the living encyclopedia's of the hiligaynon nation. 
the same oral tradition existed in south east asia prior to the arrival of the europeans. In fact the empires of Madjapahit and Sri Vijaya would have remained unproven and undiscovered if not for the temple complex of Borobodur. Recent knowledge about the extent and the workings of Madjapahit are mostly taken from epics since there are no surviving written documents. 
The prevalence of Oral traditions vs written has not been taken into consideration by Henry Scott.
Second,
The description of the courts, royal titles and the politics of the ten datu's can be correlated with actual events.
The story of the ten datu's happened during the 12th century at a time of transition in the royal courts and a time when Sultan Makatunaw (this is not his real name - but this is a an allegorical name - makatunaw meaning - he who dissolves i.e. destroyer) ascended the throne. This new Sultan ws seen by the rest of the royal family as evil and immoral. He was further hated because he desired and engineered his marriage to Dayang Kapinangan who at the time was already bethrothed to another prince - Datu Sumakwel.
This contest between Makatunaw and Sumakwel prompted the Grand Vizier - Datu Poteh to mediate and he then advised Sumakwel and the other princes to take Kapinangan and flee the empire. Poteh said that this is what the God Munsud Buralakaw (the God's of the seas, politics and men) wanted. 
The ten Datu's assaulted the bridal train, stole Kapinangan and fled to Sulu. They then sailed north and became the legendary founding fathers of the Bisaya and the Tausug.
When we evaluate this story and match this to other oral histories the following records matched.
a. the oral history of the Bisaya in borneo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisaya_(Borneo)tells
of the Sulu people drowning the son of Awang Alak Betatar a hundred years before the Bisaya in Borneo converted to Islam and a hundred years before the Sultanate of Brunei was created.
b. the Oral Histories of the Badjao also correlated (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badjao) to the story that a princes was about to be Married to the royalty of Brunei but was instead stolen.
Both oral histories occur at roughly the same period in the 12th century. 
The royal titles used such as Datu are are also similar to the royal title used in the rest of South East Asia.
The title Datu Poteh (or Patih - since in hiligaynon/hiniray.a /a/ can be pronounced as /uh/) was said to be the right hand/prime minister of the Sultan - this corresponds to the royal title "senapati" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senapati or  Rakryan Mapatih or Patih Hamangkubhumi in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majapahit. (in hiligaynon - "pati" means to obey)
 Also, the concept that the flight of the Datu's was not only political but also religious must also be evaluated. The priest reminded the datu's about their kasugtanan (agreement) with Buralakaw. It is helpful to note that the ancient priest of Madjapahit were called Dharmmadhyaksa ring Kasewan (State's highest Hindu Shivaist priest) and Dharmmadhyaksa ring Kasogatan (State's highest Buddhist priest). The datu's home nation was called "bornay/barunay" which is the old name of Brunei (how did Monteclaro come up with that name in 1907 when interest in South East Asian history was minimal is a question we need to ask as well). From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunei "It was renamed "Barunai" in the 14th Century, possibly influenced by the Sanskrit word varunai (वरुण), meaning "seafarers", later to become "Brunei".[citation needed] The word "Borneo" is of the same origin."
The Name Varunai also has its origins in the God Varuna (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varuna) who has corresponding qualities with the God Munsad Buralakaw who was the God of men and politics. The God Buralakaw was the sea comet (comets or light belive coming from the sea going to heaven). his twin is the God Bulalakaw. 
It is worth mentioning that Pedro Monteclaro was able to show these traditions/terms in his book in 1907. The Madjapahit (borobodur) and Sri Vijayan empires were only rediscovered during the 1920's. More than two decades after Monteclaro see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majapahit.
It is time for historians to take a look at the Maragtas as a historically based account (although it has made into a legend). Doing so might give us insights in how interkingdom politics and alliances were forged and broken during the pre spanish period. The philippines were more of the greek states i.e. one nation with different polities rather than just unrelated - self contained kingdoms.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.60.227.212 (talk) 04:53, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Maragtas and the 10 Datus - Fact or Fiction? 

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