Talk:Shura

message: I followed the link to Shura and was appalled at what I saw. Not only was the account strongly Sunni, it also argued that only representative democracy was truly Islamic. While I tend to agree that representative democracy is the least bad of all alternatives <g>, I have to recognize that it is only sparsely represented in Islamic history, or in contemporary Muslim-majority states. 
The article probably still needs lots of work, and indubitably needs more references, especially to traditionalist POVs. Zora 22:32, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major revision 

message: God commands His Messenger in AlQUran "And (O Mohammad(SAW)) counsel with them in the matter & were you to resolve (the matter), then trust in God (in executing the matter), verily God loves who trust in Him"[Q:__:__] & "And  (O Believers) obey God & obey the Messenger & the ones with the  command among you". [Q:__:__]. ILAKNA (talk) 05:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Shoura is Not Binding, Amir's decision is binding

message: The above statement seems to be incorrect & contradicts with information available elsewhere on this website. The 'split' was not because of the above-stated reason but because of the two versions of the Prophetic Hadith: "I leave behind what you were to adhere to will never err: God's Book (ie AlQoraan) and ..." , the first version contains "...my Sunnah." which was enacted in the dogma of Ahl AsSunnah, while the second version contains "...my Household ( or 'Ahle Bayti') which was enacted in the dogma of Sheeyaat Ahle Bayt. Now the question needs to be resolved whether Sheeyaat Ali were Sheeyaat Ahle Bayt? Or they were just Muslims splitting up in support of their leaders as Sheeyaat Osman & Sheeyaat Ali? Also at the Moubayaat of Abu Bakr as Caliph, was Ali a serious contender for leadership, because he was only 33 years old only, the bravest young-man in Madina at that time. At that time only elderly with life experience were selected for leadership. The questions raised at the Saqeefa were: whether there should be a contender from Awas & Khazraj & a contender from the Mohajarin? Which was not agreed, as it will divide the unity of Muslims, as there should be only one successor to an Islamic State. This shows that there are no parties in the Shoura System.The question of leadership of Ali, may be put by some, was never put seriously to become an issue discussed by the majority as with the contendership of Abu Bakr who was 61 years old for the leadership & the most respected in the Islamic community after the Prophet, being the first companion, the fast friend of the Prophet & the most knowledgeable about Islam after the Prophet. As to the contention by Sheeyaat Ahle AlBayt that Ali had the right of Islamic leadership after the Prophet indirectly inferring from the Prophetic Hadith of Ghadeer Khom, in which the Prophet states: "Ali's standing with me is like standing of {Prophet} Haroon with {Prophet} Mousa {ie. as of deputy or 'wazeer'}" & states: "Ali is Protector { or 'Maula'} of Muslims" [& the subsequent unproved contention that Ayaat of Wilayat was excluded from the Qoraan at the time of the first collection of Qoraan in the era of the first Caliph Abi Bakr]  & the Imamate {or leadership } of Prophet Ibrahim [Q:2:124-126] & then narrowing down to the Imamate of Ahle AlBayt [Q:21:73] (..." we have made them imams { or leaders..}& then further narrowing down to Ali & his progeny from the Prophet's daughter Fatima in Prophetic Hadith of  'Folks of the Shirt' & the Hadith in which the Prophet asked his companions "give me pen & ink I will write the will" & then he changed his mind, the contention that he was prevented to do so, is totally discounted by the fact that if it were so, what prevented him in declaring directly such on the pulpit during the last two Friday sermons of his life, so it will become a public fact. He was ill for two weeks before he passed away on Monday, & during the last two days he was so ill as not able to attend the congregational prayers, but he was able to give the sermon on the last two Fridays & he knew he was in the illness of death, as he had confided to his daughter Fatima. And he made during that sickness to Muslims all the exhortations regarding general matters: to take care of one's prayers & take care of women & other matters, & the succession was a matter of prime importance at that instance & he never tackled it: meaning that it was a matter of shoura, & not excluded from it as contended by Shiyaat Ahle AlBayt. He never directly ordained  either on the pulpit or otherwise that 'Ali will be head of the Islamic State after him'. If it were so, the Muslims would have not obeyed contrary to the Messenger's command [as it happened in the Caliphate of Omar when a companion in a Friday sermon stood up & said: "I will not obey you until you explain where you got the second part of your garment", Omar said to his son: "Abdullah, get up & explain" & when Abdullah had explained that he had gifted his part of war booty cloth to his father so he could have a complete garment, the questioner stood up & said: "Now, Omar I will obey you" after the doubt had been clarified] & there would have been a tumult as happened after the assassination of the Third Caliph. The absence of that discounts this contention.ILAKNA (talk) 08:43, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Ali and his supporters only later submitted to Abu Bakr. In later years, the party of Ali (Shi'at Ali) split from the rest of the Muslim community over this question of succession, thus splitting the ummah into Sunni and Shi'a groups.'

message: Some Muslim nations, such as Turkey, are secular democracies
Is it still considered so? I wouldn't call it neither secular nor a democracy, right now… --Lohoris (talk) 10:40, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkey 

message: Shoura (K:42:38{the foundation of shoura in Islam & instituting the principle of shoura in Islam}) in matters of state is more than 'consultation': it is deliberation among the public (or their representative delegates) & then counsel to the head of the state in the Islamic governing system as to the 'Body of Opinion' of the bigger blackness (السواد الأعظم) (or the heads of the people), or the majority, towards an issue of the state, so the head of the state takes that opinion into consideration in his decision towards that issue for a better informed decision. This is to be meted by an instituted 'shoura assembly of the public' (جمعية شورى العموم). At the time of the prophet, his mosque will also serve as an adhoc shoura assembly. When there was a need to take a public decision, he would ask Bilal, his caller to the salat prayers, to give adhan (public call to salat) in other than salat times, replacing the sentences (حي على الصلاة و حي على الفلاح)(Live {or hasten} on the Salat & Live {or hasten} on the Prosperity) with 'as-salat jaamaa' (الصلاة جامعة) or 'the salat (prayers) is communal', & would send announcers in Medina market & squares to announce 'as-salat jaamaa' (الصلاة جامعة) or 'the salat (prayers) is communal' & the people will understand that a public matter needed to be decided by the prophet & they would assemble there, to advice prophet of their opinion towards the public issue. For example, in the decision where to face the opposing army in the Battle of Ohad, majority wanted away from the Medina, minority wanted at the outskirts of the Medina, so the prophet decided with majority and commanded the Islamic army to move to the Mount of Ohad outside Medina where the army of the Al-Qoreish had camped. The shoura encompasses the general referendum of the public as the prophet did in his mosque or the expert opinion as the prophet changed the location of the army in the Battle of Badar on the opinion of his companion (who advised him to cover the water-wells behind their army so the opposing army does not have access to it as a tactic of the battle-field to win the battle), or the voting of the delegates by pledging allegiance of the Medinite tribes of Al-Aws & Al-Khazraj to elect the prophet as the head of their state (first state in Islam) in Medina at the (last) Pledge of Allegiance (or mubayaa (مبايعة) at Al-Aqba, Makkah, (three months before his migration to Medina) with the ensuing signing of the 'scroll (or pact) of the Medina' (delineating the agreed way to govern them) with the delegates of the Bani Israel & Associators (Mushrikeen), the sections of the population of Medina who were not a party to the Pledge of Allegiance of Aqba. The setup of the 'Shoura System in Islam' is left to the ijtihad (or mental self-striving ) of the community as to the needs of the community at the time. Since the first caliph was elected in two parts: first by the shoura of the by (or mubayaa (مبايعة) of the majority of people present in the hut of the Bani Saqeefa: the inner circle or the influential people (أهل العقد و الحّل) (lit. the people of the tying & untying) & secondly by the following public pledge of allegiance (or mubayaa (مبايعة) of the majority of public of Medina next day, & this was within the Shoura system in Islam. The second caliph was elected in two parts: first as the dying testament of the first caliph as the circumstances deemed it as huge wars were in progress, & secondly by the following public pledge of allegiance (or mubayaa (مبايعة) of the majority of public of Medina next day, & this was within the Shoura system in Islam. The third caliph was elected in two parts: first out of the committee of six selected by the dying second caliph, & secondly by the following public pledge of allegiance (or mubayaa (مبايعة) of the majority of public next day, & this was within the Shoura system in Islam. The fourth caliph was elected in two parts: first by the companions of the prophet, & secondly by the following public pledge of allegiance (or mubayaa (مبايعة) of the majority of public next day, & this was within the Shoura system in Islam. The first four caliphs are considered 'guided' most pious caliphs by the majority of Muslims as per the prophetic hadith, as they were very close to the prophet their understanding of the subtleties of Islam was deeper, and their actions can guide the ijtihad, being their actions guaranteed to be within the framework of Islam. 78.93.211.105 (talk) 15:08, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shoura in state matters is more than 'consultation': it is counsel as to the 'Body of Opinion' 

message: Since Q:42:38 is the root-cause ayat (or verse) for government in Islam, a new word 'shouracracy' need to be coined, to represent the rule by shoura, which would include all types of governing systems which have existed under Islam, whether they are fully shouracratic or fully despotic, or in between them & this should include links to the following topics, as a comprehensive umbrellatic word for rule in Islam:
1.Caliphate.
2.Islamic Democracy.
3.Islamic Republic.
4.Islamic State.
5.Shura.
78.93.211.105 (talk) 08:12, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouracracy: the rule by shoura