Talk:Ngo Dinh Diem/Archive 1

message: I believed, you need to doing more research into Ngo Dinh Diem regime in 1945.
Your sources are incorrect. I only read a partial of your article and your article did not make any sense to me. Seemlike, you're leaning too much in one side of the story? 
Such as, you said Ngo Dinh Diem, "He rejected the Geneva accord calling for unification and elections in 1956, using a 1955 referendum he abolished the monarchy and declared himself President of South Vietnam." 
A statement above have two sentences that miss-leading to the public: 
1- Ngo Dinh Diem and Ho Chi Minh would like the idea about unification and elections, but Ho Chi Minh is a man changed his mind and rejected the unification and elections in 1956 from Geneva. You want to know the reason why Ho Chi Minh reject this idea? You need to reseach more about it. I can  not give it to you.
2- Ngo Dinh Diem did NOT declared himself for a President of South Viet-Nam?
I let you to find this out by yourself.
I hope you will write this article more closely correct...
Best Regards,
David
:Be bold. Feel free to fix any mistakes yourself. LuckyWizard 02:52, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sufficiency of information / NPOV 

message: Can someone confirm if Ngo Dinh Diem died on November 1st or 2nd in 1963, please ? Thanks. -- PFHLai 13:08, 2004 Oct 28 (UTC)
:On the Vietnam War page it says that he left office on the 1st and was killed on the 2nd. Hope that helps.Murdochious 16:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  date of death 

message: Which is the last name (family name, surname) of this guy? Diem and Ngo? — Instantnood 03:04, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
:His last name is "Ngo."  In many languages, Vietnamese included, the surname is generally listed first.  "Dinh Diem" is his given name.
--Ryanaxp 16:35, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
But then in the article (in fact in many articles about Vietnamese people) Ngo Dinh Diem is referred to by Diem instead of Ngo. -- 14:56, January 25, 2005, UTC
:No only so on Wikipedia. Even on American publications about the Vietnamese War (interestingly its literally called United States War in Vietnam) Vietnamese people are referred to by the last word of their names. — Instantn
::Well, you wouldn't quite expect the Vietnamese to call it "the Vietnam War," any more than you would expect Caesar to have referred to the invasion of Gaul as "the Rome war," no? :)In any event, the phrase most commonly used among Vietnamese translates more aptly to the "American war," not particularly the "United States war" (although the distinction is ambiguous at times, in Vietnamese as in English).--Ryanaxp 14:31, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
ood 15:01, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
::This article on BBC, and this article on the websste of Vietnamese embassy in US call Phan Van Khai, the current Vietnamese PM, "Mr Khai".  — Instantnood 10:14, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
:::Vietnamese people are usually referred to by their given names instead of their family names.  Thus NGÔ Đình Diệm is usually referred to as Diệm, VÕ Nguyên Giáp is referred to as Giáp, NGUYỄN Cao Kỳ is referred to as Kỳ, PHAN Văn Khải is referred to as Khải, etc.  However, there are certain exceptions, as in the case of HỒ Chí Minh, who is referred to as Hồ, but that is a rare case (it's an alias, not a real name). If everyone is referred to by their family names, half of the country would be called Mr./Ms./Mrs. Nguyễn and another quarter Mr./Ms./Mrs. Trần. DHN 06:04, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean Ngo Le Thuy ? -- PFHLai 15:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Last name

message: According to the Chinese version of Wikipedia, Diem's surname is supposed to be Ngo Dinh, instead of Ngo, as it would be perceived. That is because the name of the Diem's niece was Ngo Dinh (name here, but I do not know Vietnamese, so I won't type it).
So is Diem's surname just Ngo? Or is it Ngo Dinh?
--Arbiteroftruth 07:17, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears that you might be correct.  Some people have compound surnames composed of their parents' surnames if they both come from prominent families.  Both Ngô and Đình are legitimate surnames.  A Google search for "họ Ngô Đình" (the surname Ngô Đình) yielded some references to scholarly works referring to such a clan.  DHN 07:34, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: * The surname is simply Ngô.  In the Vietnamese culture (speaking of my own), the given name is divided into a few parts.  Đình may have been a courtesy name that is inherited continuously down the generation line.  Diem is his given name.  For example, the last dynasty is Nguyễn Dynasty.  However, all of the emperors have the surname of Nguyễn and courtesy name of Phúc.  Hope this clears up some confusions. --68.239.204.87 02:26, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ngo or Ngo Dinh? 

message: I kept the reference to him being anti-Buddhist because of his raiding of Buddhist temples. I also kept the reference to him being devoutly Catholic, so hopefully the anonymous editors will leave it alone for now. If I'm wrong about this, please tell me and maybe we can resolve this. Primetime 11:08, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Devoutly Catholic vs Anti-Buddhist 

message: I removed the line saying that the U.S. "realized that the Republic of South Viet Nam was by far the most democratic government the people of Viet Nam has ever experienced".  This is irrelevant.  Whether it was the most 'democratic' government Vietnam had experienced or not, the U.S. was still denying the Vietnamese the right to elect their own government.
I don't object to the deletion; it seems an unnecessary aside. However, I seriously question the reason for it.  At what point would you think democratic elections would be possible?  How can you "deny" someone something that they would never have had?
Hoya1 23:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  U.S. / Democracy 

message: Simply put, I would imagine most of the articles regarding any aspect of the Vietnam war to be mostly speculation. Between the U.S. government releasing nothing (or damn near close to nothing ) with regards to their internal planning sessions during the war and the Vietnamese government releasing certifiably nothing with regards to their actions, most everyone can claim a lack of credentials to arbitrate the truth of this matter, or anything surrounding the Vietnam war.  That said, this isn't really about anything in the article that hasn't been said already, save that most of it (especially around the end) drifts off into questionably ambiguous and unsupported grounds, -- Walk0nwalls 18:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreliability of Information 

message: In the Coup and Assassination section there is talk of Ngo's ghost avenging his death. Where did this idea come from? Since it has no source at all it seems difficult to leave such superstition in an encyclopedia. Any sources anyone? --Hydraton31 19:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ghosts? 

message: Among the many who know of the political situations surrounding his death (1963), Ngô Đình Diệm's assassination was considered as the decisive political moment that, according to some, led gradually to the Vietnam War loss'' 12 years later (1975), but, according to others, prevented South Vietnam from being lost 12 years earlier because Diệm had already decided to get rid of American influence and yield to Ho Chi Minh's invasive ambitions
The above quoted text is not strictly neutral e.g. war 'loss' - this depends on whose side you consider 'winning' etc. It is also very unclear, especially when it talks about '12 years' earlier/later.--ToyotaPanasonic 13:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality (and also clarity) issues 

message: Information on this article of Ngo Dinh Diem contains mostly biases and false information that has been generated by US government and VN communists.  90% of the article is false information to make NDD seem like a bad person when he wasn't.  This is the work of US government and VN communists.  Wiki shouldn't support it by posting false information on this webpage and mislead the world's readers.  Please do the world a favor by posting accurate information, if not, don't post at all.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baby4eva (talk • contribs) 20:05, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: comment

message: why would he be exiled to china if hes openly anti communist? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.139.62.233 (talk) 00:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: exiled to china

message: Diem appears on a list of "people from Ocean County, NJ" - just a guess but I think this is wildly inaccurate  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.162.6 (talk) 21:35, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ngo Dinh Diem from Ocean County, NJ?

message: Looking again at Moyar's book, some of his counter-statistics are sourced to a book called the "The Cross and the Bo-Tree". Gheddo is an Italian Roman Catholic priest. He is an active missionary trying to convert people to Catholicism (see google). On the blurb of the book, it says that his credentials include being a magazine editor for the Second Vatican Council. Also note that Ngo Dinh Thuc, brother and advisor of Ngo Dinh Diem, who lived in the same Presidential Palace in Saigon, was the Archbishop of Hue, and was a member of the Vatican voting conclave for the papacy. Thuc was one of the most powerful figures of the Vatican in Asia. As such, these statistics can in no way be taken to be reliable at all. Imagine using a Fatah or Hamas website for statistics about Israel, or Tamilnation for statistics about the Govt of Sri Lanka. The fact that Moyar takes information written in a book by a missionary of the same church of an archbishop who is the brother of the country's President, and tries to use this to reveal "truth" speaks volumes about him. Blnguyen  (bananabucket) 07:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Piero Gheddo and RS

message: *Time magazine article  - 80%
*Maclear, p63 -> 95%
*Dr Charles Fasanaro, Santa Fe, NM, Encyc of Vietnam War p49 (ed Spencer C. Tucker) -> 80%
*Dr Cecil B. Currey, U S Florida, Encyc of Vietnam War p291 (ed Spencer C. Tucker) -> "predominately" [sic]
*William Head, Encyc of Vietnam War p293 (ed Spencer C. Tucker) -> "most"
*Frank N Trager, Professor NYU, pg366 in Gettleman -> "majority"
*David Halberstam, Pulitzer Prize, Gettleman p275 -> 69-76%
**Note that contrary to the claims in Moyar's book that Halberstam got this statistic from communists, Halberstam in the article notes that it was an estimate by the "Asia Foundation" a non-profit US organisation. 
*[Wesley Fishel, Professor MSU, Gettleman's book  -> "largely"
------
*CIA report: 27%
**CIA agent Edward Lansdale was Diem's advisor who helped him into power.
------
Google results 
*(12) - "predominantly"
*(15) "70-80%"
*(19) "80%"
*(21) This site is an encyclopedia, but may not be very good  - 66% in 1995....Has Buddhism increased during Communism?
*(29)  - "predominantly"
*(30)  - "In an eerie parallel, the percentage of Sunni Muslims to Shiites in Iraq is roughly that of the Catholic-Buddhist ratio in Vietnam in the 1950s."
These are the google results for academic publications in the top 30
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Blnguyen  (bananabucket) 04:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merely a note to widely acclaimed figure David Halberstam would have been enough to debunk Moyar.Bakaman 02:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: % Buddhists

message: What was Diem and Nhu's political party called, again? The name escapes me. 71.193.93.176 12:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can Lao. Blnguyen  (bananabucket) 01:09, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: In the 'Aftermath' section of this article, is there something wrong with the last word of the article? I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be 'communism' rather than 'colonialism.'
:No it's correct. Diem was known for taking a lot of US aid money and not doing what he was told. The subsequent junta allowed more US personnel etc and towed the line more, and they got a worse reputation for being American puppets than Diem did. Blnguyen  (bananabucket) 01:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit Question

message: I've included this article in :Category:Prime Ministers of South Vietnam. I realize that at the time the government in question laid claim to all Vietnam, but the position held by the person is commonly called "PM of South Vietnam". Snocrates 02:19, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead said President of South Vietnam (as in the post 1955 Republic of Vietnam). Before Geneva, there wasn't a border and there were two parallel administrations, the French backed State of Vietnam and the Ho Chi Minh Democratic Republic of Vietnam. Before Geneva there was fighting everywhere and there wasn't a communist anti-communist zone. It was only in 1955-56 after the national elections didn't occur that "south" and "north" became concrete and when teh RoV was created, Ngo Dinh Diem proclaimed himself President and stayed there until he was killed. Blnguyen  (bananabucket) 02:24, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Category

message: بجعن اس قرك قوق β̞ɑjɪŋɢ̆ɑɳ
₳₴₴₪  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.103.175.12 (talk) 15:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  azzu Qrex 

message: Why is there no info on his grave? According to every magazine and newspaper accessible on the net, he was first buried in an unmarked grave at the military headquarters by the airport, then moved to an unmarked grave in Mac Dinh Chi cemetery in 1965, then in 1983 moved to his parents' cemetery in the province. Also, the "cemetery next to the house of the U.S. ambassador" is really Mac Dinh Chi cemetery, and should be identified as such. It's only 4 short blocks away from the embassy building, if you look at an old map of Saigon.GLY63 (talk) 03:20, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need to have accurate info on his grave 

message: The one given now contradicts the data in the Vietnamese phonology article; iə's should be substituted for jə's 89.231.110.85 (talk) 17:51, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of the name