Talk:Dum Diversas

message: Can anyone find this document?
: Here is a copy, reproduced in a collection of papal bulls and other church documents published in 1868. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 04:03, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Of the papal bulls listed, only one, Inter Cetera, relates to this topic. There is no Etsi Cuncti, but there is a Etsi Cunctas by Leo XIII about the Church in Ireland. There's no original source on Precelse denotionis, so until one is found its existence and content are suspect.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.43.63 (talk) 22:23, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No offense, but that is absurd. There is a reliable source that attests to its existence. The standard of Wikipedia is "verifiability" not "truth"; our job is not to go about sleuthing on our own, but to summarize the status of published knowledge. If you truly disagree so much with a published source, it's better for you to pursue the independent publication of your theories than to try to change things on Wikipedia. If the the encyclical has truly disappeared, that doesn't mean that it never existed, especially for a several hundred year old document. Much less just because there's no full text available on the internet. I consider your recent edits to hinge upon original research, and would ask you to limit your contributions to what can be sourced. In other words, if someone published something saying that a source might be apocryphal add that, but only that. Savidan 00:37, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

text: There are two issues here: (1) your Hitler example is really off-the-wall; this article is something that jives with the context around it and is, well, believable. These sources are also higher in quality, etc.; (2) doing a google search for a document written several hundred years ago and not finding the full-text (in a language in which it was not written no less) is far, far short of "proof" of non-existence. In the case of something that has been written about in high quality sources, at least another source questioning its existence would be required to include that perspective in the article. In the case of Hitler for example, a higher quality source about his religion would be enough to reduce the view in question to a footnote in a daughter article or even to remove it entirely. Savidan 15:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non Existent or Inccorect Bulls 

message: I have amended some inaccuracies in the article. The first sentence saying that Dum Diversas is "credited with ushering in the African Slave Trade" is citied only to a single personal opinion on a private POV website. As such, the statement is completely unwarranted in that form which suggests that that is a widespread if not majority opinion! I have amended it slightly, adding "by some", but really the reference supplied is not sufficient basis for the statement to be there at all.  Also Inter caetera's connection with Dum diversas is not slavery at all, as originally implied, but the concept of national exclusive spheres of influence in newly discoverted lands. I too can find no reference to "Etsi Cuncti". it only seems to be mentioned in this article - which is very suspicious. Xandar 00:18, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Inaccuracies

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