Talk:Characters of Final Fantasy IX

message: Kuja used to have his own article. I dont know what happened to it, but I definitively think it should be brought back. Kuja is the main antagonist of the game, and a very interesting villain. Sephiroth has his own article, and although Kuja is not as popular, I believe he should have his own as well. Can anyone restore the Kuja section to a full length article?   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.54.243 (talk) 02:22, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Kuja article

message: I've just finished a significant rewrite of the Zidane entry. In addition to general copyediting (consistent tense usage, active voice, etc.), I've also attempted to eliminate a good deal of unencyclopedic (IMO) speculation and amateurish litcrit, and greatly abbreviated the paragraph regarding Garland/Terra/the Genomes. In the latter case, I felt that it was a significant divergence from Zidane's own story, and would be more appropriate elsewhere (either the entry on Kuja or Garland, or in the main article's story section). Basically, I've tried to avoid duplicating basic story information that doesn't directly shed light on Zidane himself. I'd like to think the section holds together better now: does anyone else agree/disagree? I'll probably go ahead and adjust the other entries in a similar fashion, unless there's any objection.
Also, I replaced the original bulletted list layout with subsections, which I think looks better (lists don't work well with multi-paragraph entries because of indenting issues), and makes it easier to do anchor linking. Is this acceptable to everyone? – Seancdaug 06:48, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether someone is "hot" or not is not within the scope of this encyclopedia. That is a matter of taste, and would be strictly POV, subject to immediate deletion. -- Elaich  talk 02:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm certain it was a joke. (Momus 01:37, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Editorial rationale

message: It says they're "brothers" in the Tantalus section, but are they really? It seemed more like everyone in Tantalus just called him "brother" or "bro", just like they call Baku "boss". Marcus states that "there's only one man we call Bro", and a similar statement for Baku with "boss". "Brother" is probably just an affectionate term, not a blood-related one.
:I have removed it. It can always be added back in witha refernce if it turns out they are blood-brothers. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 18:29, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cinna and Blank 

message: On this page it states under Quina's spot that s/he is thought to be seen in Alexandria castle, and then states that this is actually a different member of the Qu clan. However, in Quina's specific article, it states that s/he actually IS the Qu seen at Alexandria castle at the beginning of the game. Which one is correct?
Tbkgm79 03:57, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How is this possible, when Quale specifically says that Quina has never left the swamp before, and can barely feed himself? -- Elaich  talk 17:45, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed this. It's unsourced and unprovable. Quale's statementts to Quina seem to indicate s/he had never been out of the swamp before. The reference to "frogs here better than Alexandria" could just be local legend. There's no proof whatsoever.  -- Elaich  talk 23:08, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: To a human, all Qus look pretty much the same. 91.105.49.84 (talk) 11:34, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quina Contradictions 

message: This article makes little sense to people who know nothing about this game (like myself). Take the Zidane entry, for example. "The Angels of Death were Genomes, biological hosts for the souls of the doomed world of Terra." Okay, so far, so good. I don't know why the souls need "biological hosts" yet, but I assume it will be explained (though I'm already wondering if that's biography article territory). "Unlike other Genomes, however, which were little more than soulless vessels, the Angels of Death were granted a soul as part of Garland's plans to initiate a worldwide catastrophe on the planet Gaia that would make way for the recolonization of the planet by refugees from Terra." Huh? If they're biological vessels for souls, how would they not have souls? Isn't that their raison d'être? "Garland, anticipating that the presence of a soul would cause the otherwise immortal Genome body to wither and die, created Zidane as a replacement for the first Angel of Death, Kuja." Again, why? Does this Kuja not have a soul? Why would any of these Genomes exist if not to be vessles for souls? "Resentful that Garland has already made plans to replace him, Kuja kidnaps Zidane and hides him on Gaia." The Genomes aren't on Gaia? They were on Terra to be put on Gaia to somehow create a catastophe?
If this character can't be explained in a simple biographical entry without someone understanding the way the entire game universe's mechanics work (Genomes, souls needing vessels, Terra, Gaia, Garland, etc.), then I'd say it almost serves no purpose. In the next entry this continues to a degree with things like "eidolons" being referenced as if the reader will know what those are.
IMO, this article, as it is now, seems like little more than a rehash of the plot of the game, only without the context for things that would make it make sense to anyone who doesn't already know about it. All it seems to be doing is taking from the synopsis the parts that relate to the characters in question. If the article needs to exist at all, each entry needs to have the number of proper nouns reduced to a minimum and be condensed to simply talking about who the characters are rather than what they do in the game. Given the way this game seems to work, that may not be possible, and perhaps this article needs to simply be merged back into the main FF9 article in a heavily condensed form. RobertM525 19:06, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This article is about the characters, not the structure and plot of the game. -- Elaich  talk 01:13, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing 

message: Vivi's surname has been changed because of an error in spelling, check Vivi's talk page for more info.67.142.130.30 08:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It does not matter if it was the result of a spelling mistake. Ornitier is what appears in the game manual originally and is what most people know him as. It would be like calling the Duke of Wellington article  Arthur Wellesley.Showers 19:21, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Ornitier is the CORRECT NAME. It is obvious that "Orunitia" is just the straight romanization of his last name and therefore incorrect. Anyway, I just got the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania (an official S-E publication) and his name is written in English "Vivi Ornitier". This article should be changed BACK to the correct name once and for all. I will scan the damn page out of the book if I have to. 68.13.207.46 (talk) 21:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ultimania guides are Japanese products. Names from the Japanese canon of the game are irrelevant here. FightingStreet (talk) 21:05, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, they aren't. Last names are the same, so are almost all the first names. This is just further proof the name here on Whackypedia is wrong. Otherwise, I suppose you should redo the whole article with names like Bibi Orunitia and Jitan Toraibaru.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.207.46 (talk) 02:27, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They decided to make it "Orunitia" over here. Our policy is to use the English name.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's Ornitier here. "Orunitia" is a mistake that somehow managed to get around, but it's clearly incorrect.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.207.46 (talk) 03:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we don't have the right to call that a mistake. WP:OR. They published "Orunitia", so...—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 04:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

text: And last names aren't always the same. Hell, first names aren't either. Ever heard about Amarant Coral? and Salamander Coral? FightingStreet (talk) 08:40, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Yes, the last names are always the same. I can't think of any time they've changed them. I never said NO first names were changed, but there are very few instances of that, luckily.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.207.46 (talk) 10:29, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The spelling of Vivi's last name was changed. It's a fact. FightingStreet (talk) 10:33, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not a fact... that's your theory, which is wrong, by the way. Any spelling as "Orunitia" is clearly a mistake.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.207.46 (talk) 16:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it's a fact. That's what anyone can see. Your statement on the other hand is definitely not a fact; it's an interpretation based on your personal opinion. Now answer this post if you want, but I won't bother answering if you don't bring any new evidence or argument. FightingStreet (talk) 17:11, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

text: No, you won't bother answering because you already know I'm right. YOUR personal interpretation is that a mistake in a few publications means that they changed the name, when it's obvious that is not the case.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.207.46 (talk) 19:30, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

text: The North American copy I have, in the manual it has the correct spelling "Vivi Ornitier". Obviously "Orunitia" is a mistake; it is the romaji spelling of his last name in Japanese (Jitan Toraibaru [Zidane Tribal], Bibi Orunitia [Vivi Ornitier], etc.). Somehow, it made it onto some web site that is cited here, and supposedly some European versions of the game (I've never actually seen them, I'm just saying what I heard). I guess the argument people here are trying to make is that Square intentionally changed his "English" name from Ornitier to Orunitia simply because some English-language material has it spelled that way, but that is totally illogical. I believe that would make Vivi the *sole* main character from any FF game 1-12 to have his --last-- name "changed" not to mention the only one with a different --last-- name than the original Japanese version. Since there is English-language material with the name spelled BOTH ways and since all the Japanese material spells it Ornitier, I believe that what needs to be proven is that "Orunitia" is an intentional change and not just a mistake. However, that cannot be proven, because it's not true...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.207.46 (talk) 13:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Vivi's surname

message: Some of you may notice, that I have been slowly attempting to format and improve content for a little while now, and I've now completely merged (with a little help from Deckiller) every single character article into the main list here.  Please do not revert the merges without discussion.  They are merged here for a variety of reasons.  Partly because it is difficult to establish individual notability of any of these characters to warrant their own article, partly because there isn't enough information to warrant their own articles, partly because most of the information of some of these characters is meaningless and trivial plot summary, but mostly because none of these articles contained ANY information beyond their description and their biography/role in the game.  For a character to have their own article, there needs to be: a description, a biography/role in the story, developement information, reception and criticism unique to that character, etc.  Or as much of that information as we can find.  As long as we only have Description and bio/role, then they cannot uphold their individual notability as a seperate article.  Even if they do have that information, it needs to be comprehensive enough to warrant a separate article.  Should we one day approach that level of information, then we can discuss seperating out the characters.
Aside from content, our biggest problem is that this article is completely unsourced.  According to WP:ATTRIBUTION: "All material in Wikipedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source."  That means that damn near every setence, every comment, every tidbit of information must be sourced.  A source can be the official strategy guide, in-game dialogue that's quoted in the references, an interview with someone involved in the process (i.e. an interview with Nomura about a character's design developement), etc.  Consider every setence to have the  tag.  If there's any confusion as to what the end result will look like, take a look at Characters of Final Fantasy VIII where Deckiller has done a fantastic job of orchestrating that article into cohesion.  This should be our goal, and I am using this as a template for what I hope to achieve with this article.  Also notice that here, only Squall and Rinoa have their own articles, and they have comprehensive developement information.
My word is not law, I don't WP:OWN this article, these are my opinions and my intentions and I welcome other ideas and further discussion.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 18:50, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Future of this Article

message: :"In battle, they will not attack Princess Garnet, and when she is the last remaining character they will cast Sleep on her to capture her."
Normally, we do not allow gameguide information as this is considered unencyclopedic.  I feel that the above quote is an exception to this rule.  It is info about the battle strategy, but it also is relevant to illustrate their orders about not harming Princess Garnet.  As such, I feel it is necessary to include to clarify the facts that they can't harm her and that despite that they still battle against the party.  Without this info, it is also unclear to the reader how this battle would be possible to lose.  I feel that this tidbit is important to make this entry fully clear and encyclopedic, and that this statement is an exception to WP:NOT/Indiscriminate Info item 4: Instruction manuals.  I propose we WP:IGNORE the rule and keep this information in the article.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 19:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  And the last black waltz will start attacking himselve if garnet is the only character remaining --A Chain Of Flowers (talk) 18:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Exception to Gameguide in "The Black Waltzes"

message: Is anyone aware of these interviews?    --Teggles 00:23, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some may question the reliability (FFshrine), but since they are interviews and attribute them to Famitsu, IGN, and other areas, then they might (and in reality should) fly with the reference specialists. — Deckiller 00:33, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible development sources 

message: Where the heck is the Steiner image?
:The previous image of Steiner was unsourced, so it was removed per WP's policy.  We need to add a new one with proper sourcing.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 15:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excuse me, but... 

message: "Quina Quen" is a play on Japanese words, as Quina means 'eat', but Quen means 'cannot eat'.
I'm not sure who added this (unsourced) statement, but "Quina" is not Japanese. The structure of the language simply cannot allow for such a word. I'm removing it for now. 74.242.103.111 23:29, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The statement never said that Quina was Japanese, only that his full name is a play on words in Japanese. This is one of those legends that are born and are bandied about on fan site talk forums. -- Elaich  talk 17:41, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Quina" is not japanese, not by a long shot.  It is Quechua, opposite side of the globe.  And Quen is a real-life surname deriving from England that apparently derives from St. Quinton.  It seems extremely unlikely to me that "Quina Quen" is a play on words in japanese.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 20:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not Quechua, it's OR. Kariteh 20:56, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Quina" is a Quecha word.  That is a simple fact.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 21:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Zidane" is an Arabian name meaning "beauty of the religion". That is simple fact too. And somehow, I'm sure someone would revert me if I add this stuff in the article. Kariteh 22:07, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If that's what it means, then I think it should absolutely be added in the article.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 22:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mmh, actually it's "overabundance of something", like talent. I mistook Zinédine with Zidane. Anyway, I think it should absolutely not be added. Arabian Zidane's transliteration is Zaydān, with "Zay" being pronunced /zaɪ/. The "Zi" in Zidane Tribal's name however seems to be intended (judging from the Romaji) to be pronunced /zi/ like the American pronunciation of the letter Z. I doubt the developers had this Arabian name in mind, especially considering the huge celebrity and totally unrelatedness of the football player of the same name (they even changed the character's name to "Djidane" in the French version of the game to avoid unnecessary connection). The term Gitan would be a more likely origin, but it's speculation. Anyway, all this to say, have you checked the pronunciation for the Quechua word Quina? With such a short and plain word, it could be a totally unrelated coincidence. Kariteh 06:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the pronunciation at least is the same.  In fact, it is from quina that we get Quinine, which is now synthetically produced.  You bring up interesting pionts, though.  I suppose it is possible that it may be a coincidence.  None of my searches have found any other forms of "quina" in anything else, except a medical researcher who has "Quina" as a surname .  The closest I have found is Quinoa which is also Quechua, but it's original forms seem to be "kiuna", "kinua", "kinoa" and various other forms that are completely different.  In short, I can't find anything else that even comes close except for Quechua words and a surname that I can't track down a meaning and origin of.  But I suppose the point of this discussion is that Quina is not Japanese, and that much seems to be more than clear.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 14:08, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't care if Quina is a japanese word or quechuan word, unless there is an official statement about this, it's original research and not suited for a wikipedia article, and better removed. — Blue。 17:28, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Quina" is NOT Japanese 

message: I have never seen another image of Eiko like the one on the front page, and she certainly doesn't appear like that in the game. This image needs replacement. -- Elaich  talk 23:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted your removal of the Eiko Image.  That is the image used by SE, and that is how Eiko appears in the game.  That isn't full-frontal nudity, it's pink tights that are worn under her yellow pantaloonish chaps.  And she does wear that in game.  --ΔαίδαλοςΣ 15:12, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is Eiko shown with full frontal nudity? 

message: I really do not think it is relevant to this article that some of the characters appeared later in other games. It has nothing to do with THIS game. It's trivia at best. Also, the argument can be made that these are NOT the same characters, since they are in another game and another world. A very good example is the relationship between Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross. Though Kid and Serge, and other elements from Dreamers are in Chrono Cross, nobody would attempt to say they are the same characters. CC took place in a different time, on a different world. -- Elaich  talk 15:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's irrelevant whether or not they are the same characters; in some cases, it's quite obvious that they're not even intended to be the same person, just a similar character. As for your other question, it's important to document non-trivial outside appearances in other works because it is a measure of a character's popularity or influence. I don't really follow your logic for removal. Axem Titanium 04:16, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

text: "It has nothing to do with THIS game" - this article is not about Final Fantasy IX, it's about the characters from it. "It's trivia" is the equivalent of "It's not trivia", neither provide any objective argument. As for the in-universe idea, this is simple: it's called a cameo appearance. --Teggles 05:33, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Teggles has it right.  The purpose of this article should be primarily about the characters themselves, and not the game, that's what we have Final Fantasy IX for.  Nor should the article limit their roles to only within their pilot game.  Other "Characters of Final Fantasy..." articles also show cameos and other appearances.  Furthermore, Cameo appearances demonstrate notability (and indirectly imply popularity) of a character by showing how a character has left a lasting impression upon either fans or developers.  --ΔαίδαλοςΣ 19:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characters appearing in other games 

message: Long before FFIX, Hironobu Sakaguchi had already used the name ジタン; it was in the very first game he ever made, The Death Trap. Here's a pic: . ジタン is romanized "Gitanes" in The Death Trap and "Zidane" in FFIX, but it's definitely the same thing in Japanese. I am perfectly aware that this is still original research at this point, but if someone wants to delve more into this, maybe it's stated somewhere in an interview or website... That would be something nice to add to the article. Kariteh 12:05, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zidane's name origin found (and it's not related to football) 

message: :Image:Beatrixopensdoor.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Beatrixopensdoor.JPG

message: Is there a reason why Princess Garnet has been ommitted from the page? After all she was 
one of the 8 playable characters. If her removal was vandalism then ignore this comment. Shinra 08:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Goodness! No editor realized Garnet was missing? I've reverted the removal. — Blue。 08:38, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw that someone had reverted the vandalism to the Eiko section, but never realized that the same vandal had completely removed Garnet, and that the reverter had missed that also. -- Elaich  talk 13:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Garnet

message: There used to be a full article on Kuja, one with pictures and a lot of information, and now all there is a short paragraph. What happened to it, and why do we have to shrink a lot of information and themes relayed by a character into a small paragraph?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.237.83.209 (talk) 18:08, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional articles 

message: Where is the proof which says Eiko knows "The Melodies of Life"? I went through the game recently already and so far I found no sign or notion that says Eiko knows this. Can someone show me proof of this? Else, I'm going to nag that this important piece of information be removed from this page. Zid1 (talk) 22:53, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eiko and the Melodies of Life 

message: If this article didn't have "Final Fantasy" in its title, it would have long since been deleted or merged as non notable, as it has never, and continues to not demonstrate any notability of any kind. It therefore has not shown nearly enough notability to reach GA or FA status, and its merger is long overdue. I respect the contributions of those who wrote it, but wikipedia guidelines are clear. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:06, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nipponman (talk • contribs) 22:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with this merge too. It's been a long time, and no one seems to have managed to find notability sources to use in the article. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 15:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not really about finding sources in this case, it gives detailed information on even the minor characters, and most fans of the series will find this information useful in their understanding of the underlining plot information. --A Chain Of Flowers (talk) 18:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge to Final Fantasy IX

message: i erased on zidane's section that riegel was voicing him, and now it's there again... not only that isnt reliable source, but now we pretty much know that it's definetly not him voicing it... can someone please erase where it says his english VA is sam riegel???81.193.18.31 (talk) 09:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  zidane's english voice actor 

message: I can't help but notice the similarities between some of the character bios here and those of the FFIX Wiki? Compare the Zidane bio here with the one there: . I've done a wee bit of editing to fix this, but I'm curious to know if anyone agrees with me that they were lifted and if so, should they be altered? Drunktroll (talk) 14:36, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagarism? 

message: in the italian language version of the game, quina is referred to as a female. i think it is worth to be noted in this article but i can't think of a source to cite this with (nor am i able to add it since i rarely edit wikipedia and i know nothink apart from square brackets for links). Innocenzio (talk) 16:40, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  quina's gender. 

message: The following source should be translated and used to expand the current incomplete article:
;
*Yoshitaka Amano & Hironobu Sakaguch interview (from the VERY RARE Final Fantasy IX Settei Gashuu V-Jump Special Edition)
Anyone willing to help translate even one page is welcome! Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 15:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Updated the link. Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 19:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed the link. Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 16:10, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Development information currently not in the article (VERY RARE) 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified