Talk:List of 7th Heaven episodes

message: This article seriously needs to be divided, if such a thing was ever necessary among articles.  OneWeirdDude 23:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Division into an article per season seems appropriate. Additionally...the summaries seem wildly unnecessary. Has this article seen/survived an AfD? - Cronholm144 13:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the greatest article of all time. Any good encyclopedia needs a comprehensive list of 7th Heaven episodes with detailed plot summaries. I haven't checked, but I'm completely sure that Britannica has a similar article.60.242.124.184 13:22, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Why should this article have gone through AfD? Episode lists are common, I see no reason why this particular show shouldn't have one or why there shouldn't be summaries. Also, more generally, why is there a cleanup template? I don't see anything obvious that needs cleaning up, without some sort of indication of specific work that needs to be done it's kind of useless. Bryan Derksen 15:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

text: This is what makes the internet awesome. Good work!--66.147.61.42 17:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed they are common, but rarely are they 180,000 bytes long. This article should be split into 11 sub-articles. As for the AfD, most long lists like this get nominated once in their respective lifetimes. I would have thought that the nature of this list would have attracted the "indiscriminate collection" crowd. Anyway, this prose is atrocious. "The original pilot episode of 7th Heaven that never aired was just like the one that did air with a few minor changes. Many scenes in the original pilot episode were cut. You can tell by the pilot episode that did air. In the first half of the episode, the Camdens' house is very different from usual (especially the kitchen), but in the second half of the episode the Camdens' house (especially the kitchen) is back to what it usually is in most episodes. Some scenes were cut and re-shot again that would fit the pilot that did air. Unless the Camdens had two different kitchens the show was filmed out of sequence." I imagine the rest of the summaries aren't much better. Comprehensive list=fine...+ poorly written summaries=not fine (IMHO) -- [User:Cronholm144|Cronholm]]144 00:24, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article size 

message: There's a major problem with this so-called 'article.'  It is not as though someone took time out of their life and wrote up a summary for each and ever episode (though why someone would want to is beyond me).  Every single word of these episode summaries is copied and pasted from another source.  All of it is plagiarized from a web site: www.tv.com.  This website specifically states at the bottom of their page that the material is copyrighted:  Copyright ©2007 CNET Networks, Inc. All Rights Reserved.  Whoever "wrote" this article simply went there and copied every episode summary and pasted it here.  That seems wrong to me as it is an outright violation of Wikipedia's rules against copyright infringement, and no where in the article does it indicate that its source is the website from which everything was copied.  I suggest that this article be removed immediately until someone comes here and actually writes up their own episode summaries and sites any and all sources.  This copying and pasting is not true of any other show that I have found on this website.  Take Buffy the Vampire Slayer for instance, while tv.com is sited, the episode summaries are not even close to being the same.  I have to take from this that there isn't some sort of agreement between Wikipedia and www.tv.com and that therefore this article is a blatant afront to Wikipedia's rules and standards.  I am deleting it in hopes that one of Wikipedia's admins will see this and discover such a willful disregard to their policies.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdlund (talk • contribs) 21:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *If you have permission from the author, leave a message explaining the details at Talk:List of 7th Heaven episodes and send an email with the message to "permissions-en (at) wikimedia (dot) org". See Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for instructions. If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted under the GFDL or released into the public domain leave a note at Talk:List of 7th Heaven episodes with a link to where we can find that note. If you own the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the GFDL, and note that you have done so on Talk:List of 7th Heaven episodes. However, for text content, you may want to consider rewriting the content in your own words. Thank you, and please feel free to continue contributing to Wikipedia.
-- 21:42, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Instead of deleting it wouldn't it be easier just to re-write the list of episode summaries a little at a time?  Other shows have episode listings and summaries (of course not copied) but as I recall there was not much listed for the episode listings a year ago.  I think the listings themselves only went up to Season 3 or 4 (don't remember exactly). Robinepowell 04:11, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not involved in this page, however, I feel obliged to state: ALL Summaries on Tv.com are written by their USERS, not the people who run it. I'm pretty sure the Copyright is just for tv.com and other things they may run... Myzou 04:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have gone back into the history and archived the article from earlier in the day when all seven seasons were listed. If nobody objects, I shall "adopt" the page, remove all text from tv.com and make it all nice and Wikipedia friendly. I'm not sure if I'm allowed copyrighted work in my userspace (I have it in my sandbox right now), but I shall work on it daily until everything is okay, so please do not delete if from my userspace in that time. I completed an overhaul of List of Degrassi: The Next Generation episodes today after working on it for two weeks, so it should take about that long for this article. -- Matthew Edwards | talk | Contribs 06:28, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh. While you were doing that I just created a version with all the summary text removed. If the copyvios still need to be removed from the article history then at least the most recent version can be kept as a "clean" basis to work from. If some of the summaries from the old revisions turn out not to be from TV.com they can be ported back in when their status is determined. Bryan Derksen 06:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks :)   I'm still not sure how I feel about individual episode articles being deleted due to WP:EPISODE.. I think notability is subjective. However, there are enough sources on the internet, as well as the occasional airing on ABC Family to write a non-plagarised episode guide. If I do need any restoring, I'll let you know. (BTW - are you admin?) -- Matthew Edwards | talk | Contribs 06:51, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like those removals either, but at least they were done by redirecting so the material's still accessible. Perhaps one day the pendulum will swing away from deletionism and they'll be back again, but in the meantime episode lists at least keep some of the information "live". I am indeed an admin, so I can get at deleted material if need be (provided it's not also copyvio stuff that needs to stay deleted for other reasons). I didn't take the time to check every single one of those red links myself, just a random sampling that all turned out to lack deleted revisions. I've never watched this show and have lots of other projects I'm working on right now so you'll hopefully excuse me if I let you do the heavy lifting and just provide some of the tools. :) Bryan Derksen 07:01, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Plagarism

message: Also, to the author of this article, I was told to include this link on the talk page, which I am assuming I would do so here: Hello. Concerning your contribution, :List of 7th Heaven episodes, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material without the permission of the author.  As a copyright violation, :List of 7th Heaven episodes appears to qualify for deletion under the speedy deletion criteria. :List of 7th Heaven episodes has been tagged for deletion, and may have been deleted by the time you see this message. For text material, please consider rewriting the content and citing the source, provided that it is credible. If you believe that the article or image is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) then you should do one of the following:
:*If you have permission from the author, leave a message explaining the details at Talk:List of 7th Heaven episodes and send an email with the message to "permissions-en (at) wikimedia (dot) org". See Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for instructions. If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted under the GFDL or released into the public domain leave a note at Talk:List of 7th Heaven episodes with a link to where we can find that note. If you own the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the GFDL, and note that you have done so on Talk:List of 7th Heaven episodes. However, for text content, you may want to consider rewriting the content in your own words. Thank you, and please feel free to continue contributing to Wikipedia.
-- 21:42, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Instead of deleting it wouldn't it be easier just to re-write the list of episode summaries a little at a time?  Other shows have episode listings and summaries (of course not copied) but as I recall there was not much listed for the episode listings a year ago.  I think the listings themselves only went up to Season 3 or 4 (don't remember exactly). Robinepowell 04:11, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not involved in this page, however, I feel obliged to state: ALL Summaries on Tv.com are written by their USERS, not the people who run it. I'm pretty sure the Copyright is just for tv.com and other things they may run... Myzou 04:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have gone back into the history and archived the article from earlier in the day when all seven seasons were listed. If nobody objects, I shall "adopt" the page, remove all text from tv.com and make it all nice and Wikipedia friendly. I'm not sure if I'm allowed copyrighted work in my userspace (I have it in my sandbox right now), but I shall work on it daily until everything is okay, so please do not delete if from my userspace in that time. I completed an overhaul of List of Degrassi: The Next Generation episodes today after working on it for two weeks, so it should take about that long for this article. -- Matthew Edwards | talk | Contribs 06:28, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh. While you were doing that I just created a version with all the summary text removed. If the copyvios still need to be removed from the article history then at least the most recent version can be kept as a "clean" basis to work from. If some of the summaries from the old revisions turn out not to be from TV.com they can be ported back in when their status is determined. Bryan Derksen 06:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks :)   I'm still not sure how I feel about individual episode articles being deleted due to WP:EPISODE.. I think notability is subjective. However, there are enough sources on the internet, as well as the occasional airing on ABC Family to write a non-plagarised episode guide. If I do need any restoring, I'll let you know. (BTW - are you admin?) -- Matthew Edwards | talk | Contribs 06:51, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like those removals either, but at least they were done by redirecting so the material's still accessible. Perhaps one day the pendulum will swing away from deletionism and they'll be back again, but in the meantime episode lists at least keep some of the information "live". I am indeed an admin, so I can get at deleted material if need be (provided it's not also copyvio stuff that needs to stay deleted for other reasons). I didn't take the time to check every single one of those red links myself, just a random sampling that all turned out to lack deleted revisions. I've never watched this show and have lots of other projects I'm working on right now so you'll hopefully excuse me if I let you do the heavy lifting and just provide some of the tools. :) Bryan Derksen 07:01, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright problems

message: * I'm glad to see the list of episodes back, even without summaries. Robinepowell 02:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments