Talk:Labor spying in the United States

message: This article is still "under construction" but is mature enough to move out of user space. Richard Myers 01:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: It certainly cannot be claimed that all workers' organizations are inclusionist in character. Even the Knights of Labor, often cited as an example for labor inclusionism, not only excluded Chinese, but even participated in pogroms against them. What about the long history of women being excluded from trade unions? What about Nazi, Fascist, and neo-Fascist trade unions? Though the second half of the statement, which claims that all corporations are hierarchically structured, is truer than the first, there are also exceptions here.--Carabinieri 18:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Historically unions have, by far, been the much more frequent targets of orchestrated spying campaigns, which are, appropriately, the subject of this article." You can hardly prove that.--Carabinieri 18:04, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the observations, and i have attempted changes which, i hope, will go some distance toward addressing the concerns. Please take another look, and let me know what you think. Richard Myers 20:07, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That does look a lot better, thanks for addressing my concerns so quickly. Yet you are still going to have to cite sources with "statistics cited by researchers" to back that claim up. Anyways, the article looks good all in all, the main problem is that it covers almost exclusively the situation in the US. I wouldn't be disinclined to re-scoping this article to something like Labor espionage in the United States.--Carabinieri 20:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I move that the POV Check be removed then. Tony Clothes 22:00, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV and dubious statements

message: The article includes this:
:Geographic region — If this topic seems somewhat U.S.-centric, that may be appropriate. Only in the United States has the struggle between management and labor resulted in such a contingent of mercenaries who specialize in breaking strikes.<Reference>From Blackjacks To Briefcases — A History of Commercialized Strikebreaking and Unionbusting in the United States, Robert Michael Smith, 2003, page xiv.<End Reference>
The observation that this situation has occurred "only in the United States" comes from a legitimate source. However, the situation may be a bit less clear. For example, i have noted that Pinkertons have worked in Canada. While that doesn't invalidate the point, it certainly suggests there were reasons (financial incentives?) for such agencies to exist elsewhere. 
I have ordered several additional sources, so this observation may stand or fall. 
In the meantime, if anyone can shed additional light on the annotated statement, please do so here. Richard Myers 20:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll see if I can find anything on the situation in Europe, but I have to admit, when I read the word "labor spy", the United States and especially Pinkerton do come to my mind.--Carabinieri 12:16, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: On worldwide relevance

message: Need to explore references to Frank Steunenberg and Harry Orchard, etc., to see if these can be consolidated... Richard Myers 11:04, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible need for consolidation

message: Recent edits that someone made to add additional top boxes to the article changed the dates that were in the previous boxes. For example, the statement that the article does not represent a worldwide view on the subject states the article has been tagged since December 2007. This is an error; the article had been tagged with that statement for a year or more. I considered reverting to restore the original dates, but decided that noting the changes here would be less intrusive. Richard Myers 18:14, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits affected tagging dates 

message: I haven't an interest in the rest of the article, but I do think someone with knowledge of the topic needs to write a better introductory sentence that explains what a labor spy actually is; the article doesn't make it clear. — mæstrosync talk&contribs, 09:00, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good observation, thanks. I've added a tentative definition as a start. I think it can be refined over time. Richard Myers (talk) 03:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

message: This article hasn't changed in any substantial way since a previous question of bias was resolved, to apparent satisfaction. Once again, it is easy to claim bias in a drive-by edit, but unless specific examples are cited, the alleged dispute is a challenge for others to resolve. 
This most recent accusation of bias is the single and only edit by an anonymous IP address. At least in the previous example, one tentative example was offered. In this instance, not one example of bias has been offered. 
Society has a division between capital and labor, and proponents of these two social forces do not always agree. That is simply a fact. It is actually helpful to achieve a neutral point of view (Wikipedia-wise) when proponents of two opposing sides join in discussion about perceived bias. 
On the other hand, if the content accurately and appropriately reflects the topic of that article, it does not necessarily reflect bias in the presentation of that topic. Under such circumstances, the bias tag may represent nothing more than a passing editorial comment on content with which the editor may disagree.
I am removing this most recent bias tag. I would welcome seeing the bias tag replaced, if and when the editor placing it is willing to offer a specific example of bias from the article. Richard Myers (talk) 02:04, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alleged bias in this article 

message: The long section on the Vance International Asset Protection Team does not appear to have any references to labor spies.  Perhaps I missed a mention, but I wonder why this section is in an article on labor spies in the first place, rather than in the more general Union busting article. If there is a connection with labor spies, it should be more prominently mentioned in this section.  Thanks.  Plazak (talk) 14:19, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: No one came up with a reason to keep this section in the article, so I deleted it.  There are other smaller sections which, although they deal with Union Busting, have nothing to do with this particular article.  I will be deleting them one-by-one.  Plazak (talk) 18:55, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vance International Asset Protection Team 

message: Substituted at 18:26, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: The entire article seems to be about labor spying only in the US.  Is there any reason not to change to name of the article to accurately reflect the contents?  Thanks.  Plazak (talk) 17:02, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi !  Hope you're well.  I concur that the article should be re-titled, absolutely, to reflect its focus on only U.S. examples.  Your continued good work and focus in this area is much appreciated!  --Lockley (talk) 20:39, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved. Plazak (talk) 04:20, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to: '''Labor spying in the United States''' ? 

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thread_title:  External links modified