Talk:United States Marine Corps noncommissioned officer's sword

message: Thought this might be incorporated somehow.
"Armed only with his light dress sword, Greene jumped from the cover of 
the abutment and bounded through the opening.  Behind him came Major Russell, 
weaponless but brandishing a rattan switch.  The darkened interior rocked to 
the echoing shots.  The third Marine to scramble through the shattered door, 
Private Luke Quinn, took a fatal bullet in his abdomen.  The fourth man, 
Private Mathew Ruppert, was slightly wounded in the face; but these 
casualties could not stem the blue-clad tide."Appendix C, Lee to Adjutant General, 19 Oct 1859, "Suppression of John 
Brown's Raid," Records Group 94, National Archives; muster rolls, MB, 
Washington and MB, Navy Yard, Washington.
"The first figure to rise from the gloom as Greene rushed forward was that 
of Lewis Washington, an old friend.  The Virginia aristocrat strode up to the 
officer, warmly took his left hand, then, pointing to a bearded man fumbling 
with a carbine, said, "This is Osawatomie."  With all his strength Greene 
slashed at Brown with his sword.  The first blow left a deep cut across the 
back of his neck; but the frail blade bent double on Brown's ammunition belt 
when Greene thrust at his heart, and John Brown was spared for the 
hangman."Israel Green [sic], "The Capture of John Brown," "North American Review," 
v. 141, no. 6 (Dec 1885), pp. 566-567. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mike Searson (talk • contribs) 17:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: THE UNITED STATES MARINES AT HARPER'S FERRY, 1859

message: Jack,
In doing more research I found this:
The Sword is Scrapped
The sword, symbol of authority and chivalry, and for thousands of years the instrument of battle most used by man, is today headed for the scrap heap, a casualty of a gunpowder war. Confined in modern usage to military ceremony, the swords are condemned to naval extinction by the Secretary of the Navy's order of October 15, 1942, abolishing them as a part of the uniform for the Navy, Coast Guard, and Marine Corps. The blast furnace has overtaken tradition.
The discarded swords, suggested Secretary Knox, might well be contributed to the scrap heap for remolding into modern armament.
After the war some form of dirk will be designated as a symbol of office, but the sword's demise is permanent.
The passing of the sword marks the end of an era. With its abolishment many graceful customs are lost to the naval service. Best known to the civilian public are the "arch of swords" made for the bride and groom at a military wedding and the cutting of cake at the wedding feast.
The importance of the sword as a weapon first made it a part of the fighting man's uniform, but its practical use began to decline with the extensive use of firearms. Nevertheless, it retained its importance in naval warfare long after it had become more or less obsolete on land. Well into the 19th century it vied, in the form of the cutlass, with the pistol and grenade as a necessary weapon for boarding parties, and there have been cutlass racks in evidence on even modern aircraft carriers.
The sheathed officer's sword, however, owes its survival to a different reason. As the gentleman's weapon of the 16th 17th, and 18th centuries, it was only natural that it should be incorporated into the naval officer's uniform. The wearing of the sword thus distinguished the well-born "gentleman" from the lower classes, and the naval officer was able to wear a sword as a "gentleman."
As a useful weapon, the sword and its relative, the cutlass, are now replaced by the bayonet in close-quarters fighting. And while there may be some regrets at the passing of this romantic weapon, the change is not without its compensations. Blades scrapped now will see far more battle than they would resting in their owners' scabbards
"The Sword is Scrapped." Bureau of Naval Personnel Information Bulletin. 309 (December 1942): 37.
--- 
42-857 - Swords-Abolished as Part of Uniform
JJ55-3/1510, 15 October 1942
ACTION: ALL SHIPS AND STATIONS
1.Officers of the Navy, Coast Guard, and Marine Corps, shall no longer be required to possess swords as part of their uniform equipment.
2.The various uniform regulations will be modified accordingly.
3.It is expected that a form of dirk will, in due course, be adopted as uniform equipment in lieu of the sword.
4.Due to the urgent need for metals, it is suggested that officers, who may so desire, turn in their swords for scrap.-SecNav. Frank Knox.
Source: "Swords-Abolished as Part of Uniform." Navy Department Bulletin. (Cumulative edition, 1943): 660.
Since it specifically mentions Officers and not NCO's could this be the basis for the claim of the NCO sword being the longest weapon in continual usage in the US Arsenal?--Mike Searson 17:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mike, your info on the U.S. abolishing the military and naval sword in 1942 is consistent with Peterson, who mentions that fact in his discussion of USMC Mameluke swords. I hadn't seen the original text before, so appreciate your adding it here. Of course, after WWII the swords were reinstated, so that by the Korean War I believe the Army, Navy,Marine Corps, etc., were wearing them once again.  That hiatus for Navy officers' swords does not disqualify them as the oldest official patterns still worn today.  That's because ALL sword patterns were suspended during WWII, so no harm, no foul. By the way, have been tied up with other matters lately but will make further contributions to your fine article.  There are still some areas that you will want to develop further, and I'll offer some details to add later.  Best wishes,  Jack Bethune 20:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sword is scrapped

message: Mike, please take a look at the rewrite I offer here for consideration.  It incorporates much of the research results now available in the published sources cited as references. If you think there is too much detail in some areas, feel free to edit as you wish, or emphasize the areas you feel have been neglected. The proposed text is offered for consideration by those interested in this subject, and ideas and contributions are welcome.  Best wishes, Jack Bethune 01:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mike, thanks for your assessment of this new text. You are absolutely correct to note that the NCO sword had leather-wrapped grips, whereas almost all Army M1850 foot officers' swords had sharkskin grips. There were some Army officers' swords that also used leather grips, but these and other observed variations were departures from explicit Army regulations. Marine Corps swords almost always followed strict specifications regarding styles, materials, and finishes, and variances from regulation were very rare. Are you still planning to add the other sections you mentioned previously? I think they will add a great deal to the article and round it out. Best wishes, Jack Bethune 10:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Mike, your inspiration and initiative have resulted in what we all hope will be a worthwhile addition to Wikipedia and Marine Corps history.  Congratuations and thanks for providing outstanding leadership. With best wishes for the holidays and a Happy New Year, Jack Bethune 00:45, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed rewrite

message: I think that readers of this article may be interested to know that the marine n.c.o. sword is also manufactured in France (Chevalier d'Auvergne), Germany (WKC), India (Windlass), and Spain (Armas Don Diego, Swords from Toledo).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.4.22.12 (talk) 08:56, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign-made swords 

message: I see no reference to the star of David, which appears near the base of the blade, and even in the picture it's mostly obscured.  Surely this has sparked some interest, especially from conspiracy-minded tin foil hatters, yes?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.244.221 (talk) 02:18, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Six pointed star.