Talk:Mohamed Elmasry

message: "Elmasry has authored and co-authored more than 500 research papers and 16 books on integrated circuit design and design automation, as well as having several patents to his credit." Why does publishing research papers and writing books give him credit for speaking out on these issues? —Preceding unsigned comment added by  (talk • contribs) 
It is interesting that Elmasry tried to blame the very people he claims to represent and defend against stereotypes (the Palestinians) for his controversial comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.162.227.214 (talk • contribs) 
The controversies stay in. I have no problem with adding Mr. Elmasry's achievements, but his views and remarks regarding Israel, Jews, and Islamism should not be covered up. If it is felt that I have taken his views out of context, feel free to put them in the proper context, don't just delete them. (Hyperionsteel (talk) 01:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the passage under WP:BLP, as the quoted text suggested that ElMasry was speaking hypothetically.  I'm now far less certain of this, and I'm prepared to keep the text (albeit somewhat modified) in place.  CJCurrie (talk) 08:34, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I disagree on this point -- it's a clear instance of Original Research for an editor to criticize ElMasry's letter in this way.  CJCurrie (talk) 08:53, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Removed material copied and pasted from  http://www.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca/~icm/aboutFounder.php. That sources can be used, but needs to be summarized and not copy/pasted. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 16:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyvio 

message: The quotes stay in. They are properly sourced and taken in context. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, feel free to add it to the article. I also did some reorganization. (Hyperionsteel (talk) 07:06, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes 

message: Under WP:SELFPUB, Material from self-published and questionable sources may not be used as sources in articles about themselves, if it is contentious.
Much of the material used here as been published by Elmasry, and it is definitely contentious. It should be removed.Bless sins (talk) 09:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While the source may not be reliable to support contentions about the beliefs of most Muslims, or even Canadian Muslims, Elmasry's own quotes from the organization of which he is president is reliable enough vis-a-vis to support what he himself has said and believes in. -- Avi (talk) 00:42, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WP:SELFPUB

message: The tone of this article appears highly negative and critical and therefore against the spirit of the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy. Is it really necessary to have a litany of quotes selected to put Elmasry in the worst possible light? Has he said or done nothing over the years that reflect positively on him? Reggie Perrin (talk) 19:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means; find them and add them. However, the fact that the predominant press about a person may be less-than-flattering is not ipso facto an WP:NPOV violation. Suppressing positive, or negative, information about a person would be. -- Avi (talk) 19:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Also, WP:NPOV#Undue weight would be an issue with a disproportionate to published sources amount of either praise OR criticism. Wikipedia should reflect what is out there, not take a stand one way or the other. Criticism or praise, in and of themselves, is not a violation of NPOV. -- Avi (talk) 19:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

text: He has also been criticized for accusing his opponents of being anti-Islam, a charge that based on Islamic law could be interpreted as a death threat. He has also expressed support for groups such as Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad to be allowed to operate and engage in fundraising in Canada.
Reggie Perrin (talk) 19:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: I disagree with Reginald Perrin about this. This is not a blog but rather a live dialogue on one of the largest Islamic websites on the web. I believe it is credible. I also fixed the link. It should be working now. (Hyperionsteel (talk) 02:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Quote from Islam Online

message: I agree Pipes is totally not the worst part about this page, but we should be careful of quoting such sources on BLPs. See WP:RS/N for a long discussion on Pipes. Any convincing reason to keep him on? Relata refero (talk) 21:58, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I fully expect that Judaism doesn't need defending from the likes of Elmarsy. And in the unlikely possibility that it did, I doubt that Pipes would be a a reasonable source for that defence. Relata refero (talk) 19:47, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Please don't misunderstand me: I don't think that those comments need refuting; in fact, I don't think they need to be in the article at all. I don't have anything against Pipes as a speaker and writer, but I do think we can't quote him off his blog. Relata refero (talk) 07:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

text: In any case blogs are ruled out per WP:BLP. Relata refero (talk) 15:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Not only is Pipes not a credentialed expert, but his writing on blogs is strictly ruled out per WP:BLP. Relata refero (talk) 17:53, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Blogs are still ruled out per WP:BLP, I'm afraid. Relata refero (talk) 05:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Does the Pipes quote pass the test in WP:BLP?:
 Self-published material may be used in BLPs if written by the subject themself. Subjects may provide material about themselves     
 through press releases, personal websites, or blogs. Material that has been self-published by the subject may be added to the 
 article only if:
    * it is not contentious;
    * it is not unduly self-serving;
    * it does not involve claims about third parties;
    * it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject;
    * there is no reasonable doubt as to who wrote it;
    * the article is not based primarily on such sources.
 These provisions do not apply to subjects' autobiographies that have been published by reliable third-party publishing houses; these 
 are treated as reliable sources, because they are not self-published.
 A blog or personal website self-published by the subject may be listed in the external links/further reading section if not used as 
 a source in the article.
Reggie Perrin (talk) 05:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

text: You didn't address the requirement that "it does not involve claims about third parties". As for not being contentious, he is contributing to a debate so wouldn't the comments be contentious by definition? Your qualifier "unless you agree with Elmasry" is a bit of a giveaway - the flip side is Pipes' comments are not contentious unless you agree with Pipes since clearly they are one side of a two side argument. Reggie Perrin (talk) 06:36, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

text: It's contentious for Elmasry and those who agree with him. You have to keep in mind that there are two sides to the Elmasry/Pipes argument, not just one. And then there's the third party test which you haven't addressed. Reggie Perrin (talk) 01:25, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Recognizing contentiousness doesn't mean that Pipes is wrong and that Elmasry is right. Just that we recognize there's a disagreement and that therefore a blog isn't an acceptable source. If Pipes makes the same comments in an article or book that would be different. Anyway, glad you see the point. Sometimes policy works for you and sometimes it works against you and if you find a serious problem with policy then you should go to the policy talk page and argue for it to be changed but if we don't adhere to policy even when we don't like it this place would turn into a madhouse:) Reggie Perrin (talk) 13:45, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pipes 

message: Elmasry's recent op-ed in the Montreal Gazette makes clear his feelings about Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe. I find this particularly illuminating given that this was published after Mugabe's recent terror campaign which destroyed support for the opposition after it became clear he would otherwise lose the run-off. Nelson Mandela recently noted his "tragic failure of leadership" (which is to put it mildly), but Elmasry seems to think the problem lies instead with Western media outlets who chose to cover the story.
From the article:
"Mugabe decided to hold a run-off election last month. But Tsvangirai pulled out and sought refuge in the Dutch embassy, which to some observers is a proof that he is a stooge of Western powers."
Of course, no word on why he chose to pull out and seek refuge. Apparently that's just something "stooges of Western powers" do.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.193.68 (talk) 19:45, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support for Robert Mugabe 

message: Hyperionsteel - I understand why you reverted my edits, but I disagree.  This article is WAY too long for a minor public figure such as Elmasry and reads like a laundry list of his every thought and public statement.  This is not the purpos of a BLP. 007blur007 (talk) 19:21, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length of Article / Too much focus on Elmasry's opinions 

message: I agree. This is an encylopedic entry, and everytime Mr. Elmasry publishes an editorial, doesn't mean we should include it on wikipedia. In fact, everytime Mr. Elmasry's supporter or opponent publishes an editorial, also doesn't mean we should have it here. Doing so, would make this article terribly long.
However, some of Elmasry's comments are notable. For example, his comments on Jewish Israeli civilians bieng targets of terrorist attacks is a very notable one. Similarily his comment that merited the response of the Canadian Jewish Congress should also be noted.
VR talk 21:08, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Editorialism

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