Talk:Mycenaean Greek

message: i had tried to add a new link, that is considerable important for this article and the Lineal B article, but, a stupid bot, deleted it several times. i give you the link for your consideration, that i think, and many of us i suppost, is extremely relevant:
Glossary of Linear B  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hans soplopuco (talk • contribs) 19:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: i want to add a important link, but

message: The publication of the Thebes tablets (L. Godart and A. Sacconi, 2002) was long anticipated, and their actual content was rather disappointing compared to what had been hinted at by the editors in the previous years. This is less than informative for the Wikipedia reader. Anyone? --Wetman 05:24, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: um, yeah, it was supposed to summarize Thebes tablets. Change it as you see fit. dab (ᛏ) 08:47, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: Wish you would. I'm not competent. I haven't even read the stuff about the Thebes tablets. I'll see if I can find some Internet references to add there, but I wish you'd just give us "50 words or less." --Wetman 08:50, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: it caused somewhat of a stir among the experts, and I wanted to hint at that. It was widely felt that Godart&Saconi pretended to sit on the holy grail of Greek linguistics for several years, and what they finally turned out to have been sitting on was very interesting, but not really that special. It's a matter of modern academia, not of the ancient mycenaeans themselves. I don't really think it deserves more than a sentence or two, but it would be nice to have a reference to is (it's something the Britannica will be too slow to cover :) dab (ᛏ) 09:10, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Why is the title of this article not Mycenaean Greek? 
Also, is it certain that Linear B was invented on Crete, as the introduction states? It obviously derives from Linear A, but does that allows us to say the script was invented on Crete? --Akhilleus (talk) 13:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm guessing to fit the more general WP naming policy, namely that the adjective disambigs to 'adjective language' and the other uses: cf English. It could be argued that Mycenaean Greek is POV (granted there are only about ten scholars alive that dispute that LinB is Greek). Thing is, Mediaeval has to be Mediaeval Greek, because Mediaeval is just a generic period: there was Mediaeval French, English, etc. Mycenaean stands more or less on its own: There is no Mycenaean Latin. --Nema Fakei 17:56, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough, but we have Ancient Greek, Koine Greek, Ionic Greek, Homeric Greek, Doric Greek etc. so whatever the general policy is, it seems better to title this article along the lines of the other articles about Greek dialects. I suppose this isn't very important, because Mycenaean Greek is a redirect to Mycenaean language, but this kind of inconsistency gets under my skin. --Akhilleus (talk) 19:31, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I know what you mean, and to be honest, I agree. But the article can't be moved by ordinary editors, since because Mycenaean Greek is a redirect and therefore not blank.--Nema Fakei 23:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mycenaean "language"?

message: I've moved the "Corpus" specifics over to the Linear B article. Someone might, for instance, uncover at Lesbos a Greek-language incantation to Smintheus in Luwiyan cuneiform. A Linear B corpus is a script-dependent corpus. Hate to be pedantic, but... (Zimriel 00:45, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Corpus of Greek vs. Corpus of Linear B

message: There's an interesting Conservapedia article on this language. Should we maybe also mention this irredentism? ;-) Ucucha 15:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ucucha, why are you, as a good evolutionist, hanging out on Conservapedia anyway :-)? Seems they normalized the article in the mean time, though it still sounds "biblical" (course it does). Perhaps that stupid phrase was added by a liberal intrigant. There seem to be a lot of left wing trolls there writing sheer nonsense in order to destabilise it ... well, whatever... Steinbach (fka Caesarion) 17:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conservapedia 

message: Hi, to my surprise I saw question marks in the phonology section, apparently in places where you are supposed to see letters. That means the Linear B syllabary has been included in Unicode. Great, but can someone give me a link where I can obtain these fonts? I'd like to write an article on Mycenaean on the Limburgish Wikipedia so having such fonts would be very convenient. Steinbach (fka Caesarion) 17:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a look at Talk:Linear_B#Technical_assistance.3F. Note that Internet Explorer 6 apparently will not display these characters properly even if you have the correct fonts installed. --Akhilleus (talk) 17:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Syllabary

message: My dear fellow editors, no one has commented here in over a year. The article is still of start class. I'm impressed by the general knowledge exhibited but I think we rely too much on offhand knowledge or presumed knowledge. For example, there is no pa-si-re-u even though such a word seems at first to fit the theory. Basileus comes from qa-si-re-u where qa- is the labio-velar. P never represents b. There is just no substitute for looking it up in Ventris and Chadwick. These other authors you mention are the cake. First we need the bread. Someone needs to do a line-by-line check to support the unsupported or get rid of it. Who said Linear B was invented on Crete? How could you possibly know that? Did some Cretan leave a document saying he had invented Linear B? Overall, the main thing I notice is the fragmentation. There is no overall coherent picture. There are a number of reasons for this, besides the numerous factual errors. For one thing, no or too few examples. Second, scattered facts not coherent prose. Third, use of linguistically innovative language, such as "disambiguation." We don't want to dazzle and impress, we want to explain. And then, I find the orthography section ought to be under Linear B, as it is not phonology but only orthography. Also there are big gaps. Where does Mycenaean stand in the evolution of Greek? What dialect or dialects? Well, now, I realize this article is a lot of work, more than most of you figured or care to take on. I'm not ready to contribute yet, I'm still on Linear B. I realize how much of an excuse that appears to be. But also, looking down the discussion list I must say I don't care to do battle with you denizens of Wikipedia. I just think the article should be improved and I have just outlined how to do it. Somebody should give it a whirl. Eventually I'll be dancing too but for now I'm on the sidelines. Oh by the way, the "language" in the title is redundant, as someone suggested. Greek is understood to be a language. Is it worth changing the name? Ciao.Dave (talk) 03:36, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Onward and upward

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
*Support, you are right. A Macedonian, a Greek. (talk) 20:51, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Wanax is not a uniquely Greek word, it is shared with Phrygian FΑΝΑΚΤ-. Fkitselis (talk) 19:47, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Else Mycenic word is lawagetas (apparently an army's general), and see in Youtube "A Spoken Sample of Phrygian", limited to the phrase "Ates Arkiewais akenanogawos Midae lawagtaei wanaktei edaes". --Manfariel (talk) 20:17, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lexical items - Uniquely Greek words 

message: Dr. Judson disputes the connection of "da-pu-ri-to-jo" and "pa-ra-ku-ja" to "labyrinthos" and "barakion" respectively. I searched far and wide for other Mycenaean terms using one of the labial symbols that has been seriously linked to a Classical term using beta, only coming up with "pa-pa-ro," linked with "barbaros." Both terms are obviously onomatopoeic, and could have formed separately. Are there any other attested Mycenaean terms using labial symbols cognate to Classical Greek beta? Exodvs (talk) 18:14, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so - /b/ is really quite rare in Mycenaean, since most Classical Greek /b/ sounds come from a lost Mycenaean /gw/, which is written with the q-series in Linear B. Hence qa-si-re-u -> *gwasileus -> βασιλεύς, and te-qa -> */Tʰēgʷā/ -> Θήβας. Anna Judson's book (p57) describes the /b/ phoneme as 'at best, extremely rare': if it were used, it would be written with the p-series, since voiced and unvoiced consonants are not distinguished in Linear B. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 07:00, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Evidence of /b/

message: Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that it's the "most ancient attested language of the Hellenic Languages" instead of the "most ancient attested language of the Greek Language"? 69.220.158.222 (talk) 01:16, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been categorised as a dialect of Greek in just about every reliable source since the decipherment of Linear B, beginning with Ventris and Chadwick. As far as I know, the only people who have ever disputed that have either predated or denied the decipherment. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 11:34, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: But what is this "Greek language"? We do know of the various Ancient Greek dialects, but which of the dialects is the "main character, the main Greek dialect" (if you catch my drift)? Blahhmosh (talk) 20:33, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Mycenaean Greek really a form of the "Greek language"  

message: You have added 100 lines from Wiseman's reconstruction, are you sure that this is free content? His reconstruction is in effect a translation and thus his intellectual property and as such protected by copyright. Austronesier (talk) 16:31, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not find any information regarding this. If that's an issue, then you are free to remove it. Antiquistik (talk) 16:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: If content is not explicitly labelled as free, it is copyrighted. I'll trim it to a small number of lines, let's say five. This is what you would typically do in academic works. –Austronesier (talk) 17:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a fair solution. Antiquistik (talk) 17:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiseman translation - potential [[WP:COPYVIO]]