Talk:List of Six Feet Under characters

message: This article, while occasionally informative, includes so many inaccuracies, poor grammar, and awkward language that it sometimes seems like I am reading a different language.  Some examples follow:
Inaccuracy In the Arthur Martin section, the following text: "when she learned he was not attracted to her, she went off and married George Sibley".  Ruth did not end her relationship with Arthur because he was not attracted to her.  She ended it because his expressions of love were so odd that she could not relate to him.  Futhermore, the quote seems to indicate that Ruth immediately ran away to marry George Sibley because of her failed relationship with Arthur; this is also not true.
Poor grammar Every section of this article contains run-on sentences.  "In the 1970s, the Chenowiths had become a topic of discussion after allegedly allowing their daughter Brenda to undergo testing by the controversial Gareth Feinberg, PhD who later wrote Charlotte: Light and Dark, Brenda resents her parents for those reasons."
Awkward language  "Willa Chenowith was born on the final episode of Six Feet Under prematurely much to the fears of parents Brenda and the deceased spirit of Nate."
Furthermore, it's well known that Six Feet Under is a remarkably subtle show with a great deal of character nuance and depth; as such, there is much information being presented in this article which could be considered opinion or interpretation.  An author could present the necessary information for this article by including much less information.  While there is a fine line between fact and interpretation on Six Feet Under, there is a very clearly defined line between interpretation and the information necessary to complete a Wikipedia article.
I would recommend that the article be recreated.
:Additionally, the tenses are all over the place; the article switches from past to present tense several times in a seemingly arbitrary manner.
*My suggestion is that you help contribute if you find errors in grammar and not complain on a talk board. No offense. Sfufan2005 00:54, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Difficult to follow - rewrite

message: Now that I've gotten thinking about how everyone's related, I've spent the last few hours drawing up an ascii family tree of the Fishers and all the families they marry into. It contains all the information available, as provided by the series and by the HBO Six Feet Under site, with the exception that less important branches of the Charles family tree we know of was left off because it would go over the edge of the page, and I left a few people off (like some of Hoyt and Barb's children I think). Feel free to add to or correct this tree.
Oh, and don't worry about how large it is. I assume that if we use something like this for the main page, it will be divided up from family to family—i.e. one for the Chenowiths only, one for the Fishers only, one for the Sibleys only, one for the Charleses only, one for the Kimmels only, and an extra one for the Diaz family, who I didn't include here because they're the only significant family that's in no way connected to the Fishers. I only started off with a huge, involved one like this to prove to myself that it was possible; it took quite a few tries to get everyone fitted on here without crossing any lines or whatnot. :)
Key:
*+ = marriage, civil union, or child-producing intercourse.
*___ = horizontal line of siblings.
*| = vertical line of parentage; when leading to a dot, instead denotes a person being used in two positions on the family tree.
*. = due to lack of space, the person's name cannot be listed where it should be, where the dot is, and will be indicated by a line pointing from the person's name to the dot.
                      Smiths                         O'Connors       Fishers
         _______________|_____________                 |               |
        |               |             |                |               |
        |               |             |             ___|__             |
 Abigail Smith  Loretta Sibley + ?   Marie Altman  |      |            |
                               |                   |   Sarah O'Connor  |
                               |                   |                   |
      unmarried lover + George Sibley   +   Ruth Fisher   +   Nathaniel Fisher Sr.
                     /           \                        |
                    /             \                       |________
                   /     6 wives + .                      |        |
                  /              |                        |   Claire Fisher + Ted Fairwell
                 /     __________|__________              |
                /     |                     |             |
             Kyle   Maggie Sibley   Brian Sibley          |  Joseph Green + Anna Green
                                                          |           ____|____
                                                          |          |         |
 Bernard Chenowith + Margeret Chenowith                   |  Dorothy + ?  Jeanette Bradford
                   |                                      |          |
         __________|                                      |  Roderick Charles + Lucille Charles
        |         |      _________________________________|                   |
 Billy Chenowith  |     |                       |                _____________|
                  |     |                       |               |             |       
    Brenda Chenowith    |  Raoul Martinez + David Fisher + Keith Charles  Karla Charles + ?
                  \     |                                |                              |
                   \    |                            (adopted)                          |
 Daniel Nathanson + . + Nate Fisher Jr.           _______|______        ? Benoit + Taylor Charles
                  |   |                \         |              |
  Forrest Nathanson   Willa Chenowith  |   ? + Durrell       Anthony + ?
                                      /       \                     /
                                     /   (who is parent of whom is unknown)
   Peg Kimmel + Ed Kimmel           |                    |
    __________|__________           |         ___________|___________
   |                     |          |        |           |           |
   |                     |          |     Matthew     Keith Jr.    Katie
   |    Hoyt Woodworth   |          |
   |            \        |          |
   |             \       |          |
 Barb Woodworth + . + Lisa Fisher + .             
                |    \            |
                |     \           |
                |      \          |
    Michaela Woodworth  \         |
                         \        |
         (biological father is probably Nate, but uncertain)
                              |
                         Maya Fisher
So, how's it look? -Silence 20:56, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks pretty good to me. Not sure how anyone else feels but I like the idea.--JamesB3 22:28, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it, we should include it on the Characters page. Sfufan2005 03:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Family tree

message: Somes sources for the info on this page would be goood. Having just watched (and rewatched) the last episode and specifically the end of the last episode, I'm a bit confused as to how some details are known. For example, how are Brenda's degrees known and her adding several courses to the USC curriculum? How is Claire's later career known, especially the years she got tenure etc? How was David's later life in community theatre known? Etc etc... I guess the names for the sons and grandchildren of Claire, David (well from the adoptions) etc were known from the credits/character list (I didn't bother to look)? 203.118.178.220 18:38, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the extra info is from  (Warning: Last Episode Spoilers), and other sources on the website. The site provides in-depth "obituaries" for almost all the characters who die throughout the series. -Silence 22:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: I think we have a large amount of information (which is wonderful, by the way) for the starring characters to have their own individual characters (Nate, David, Claire, Brenda, Ruth, Rico, George and Keith). The remainder can stay on this page (see my work on List of characters from The Sopranos. If anyone has objections or questions let me demonstrate first and if anyone has any ideas come forward.  Sfufan2005 03:30, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Individual articles

message: Shouldn't this be at List of Six Feet Under characters? If no one objects, I'll move the page in a few days. --Conti|✉ 16:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections if we're following the proper naming convention. Sfufan2005 18:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article name 

message: :Image:Davidfisher 23.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 10:57, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Davidfisher 23.jpeg

message: :Image:Brenda margaret maya.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:23, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Brenda margaret maya.jpg

message: :Image:Sfu ep24 Parker Claire.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 07:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Sfu ep24 Parker Claire.jpg

message: :Image:Sfu ep30 Claire Russel.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 07:09, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Sfu ep30 Claire Russel.jpg

message: Wikipedia policies require the inclusion of real-world information to establish notability (see WP:N and WP:FICT and WP:WAF). As a result., the individual articles need to reflect real-world notability (e.g. the character is a demonstrable cultural meme or icon, a la Sherlock Holmes or Hamlet or Mickey Mouse, or else has attracted significant out-of-universe commentary and critical reaction. Please note that notability is not inherited: as a result, incidental "real-world" information (e.g. character portrayed by Actor X) does not currently satisfy our notability criteria. To comment on this question, interested editors should respond to the discussion at WP:FICT or raise the issue at WP:N since, per Wikipedia consensus policy, local opinion never outweighs community-wide opinion and these standards have been asserted at a global level. Additionally, any emendation to the character articles that serve to bring them up to notability standards would be salutary. Eusebeus (talk) 15:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: However since the deletion of over 1 million articles is considered unacceptable we generaly work on the basis of educated guesses as to how likely such sources are to exist. The exception is if you take something through AFD which of course you are free to try.Geni (talk) 16:11, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fiction is different than reality, so do not compare them. The likelihood of something fictional being covered compared to something real being covered is a lot different. AfDs are not good for this kind of thing a lot of the time because it is a vote unless you get an admin willing to actually follow policies and guidelines over numbers, and most people make a vote based on the notability of the show instead of the sub-topic. Single discussions like this that judge on a better level generally work out better in the end. TTN (talk) 22:21, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly the same lines lines of reasoning apply. I know that there are likely to be sources on footballer X because local newpapers need something to fill their sports sections. By comparison TV magazines need something to fill up their "we are slightly more than a guide" section.Geni (talk) 00:04, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, they do not. Notable sports players are likely to receive coverage because of the way sports is covered as a whole. Characters do not generally receive special treatment, so they need to be special cases asserted with actual proof. TTN (talk) 00:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Evidences?Geni 14:13, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You do know that it goes two ways, right? You need to back your claims before claiming that mine lack truth. TTN (talk) 15:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You made claims lets see some evidences.Geni 16:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not going to play around with you. Though it probably isn't on purpose, that is just a silly tactic to lead this in circles. You are the one that made the original claim, so you back it up. TTN (talk) 18:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Character Redirect

message: I always wondered about the finale.  Are we supposed to take it as the definitive version of what happens to the characters after the series ends?  Or is it just one possible future for the characters?  If I were editing the page, I might qualify some of the statements about the character's fates long after the series ends.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.78.174 (talk) 22:53, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, I'd wonder about including death dates at all. The way this page is written it's as though the death of each character is the most important element, and sometimes takes up 50% of the section length, whereas by screen time it should be more like 1%.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.175.37.54 (talk) 01:21, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are these the shadows of the things that Will be, or are they shadows of things that May be, only? 

message: So, currently the article says:
Throughout the story, Claire faces numerous issues, including drug use (season 1), unwanted pregnancy (season 3), anorgasmia and lesbianism (season 4).
I think the wording of this is a little problematic as it equates lesbianism with drug use, I understand that they are all issues but the wording strikes me as somewhat pejorative. I don't have a quick suggestion to fix it, I wasn't a huge fan of the series, but I think expanding the description of these incidents and treating them each independently would avoid conflating them together in a potentially insulting way.
Sorry if anyone finds this nitpicky or overly PC, it just read a little insensitively to me so I wanted to bring it up in case others feel the same way and want to try to address the wording.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.48.172 (talk) 04:27, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claire's Lesbianism