Talk:Underfloor heating

message: "Underfloor heating is invisible from above and does not use valuable wall space with unsightly heating equipment."  The bias in this sentence is a bit extreme, but reflective upon the whole article.  It needs to be cleaned up, but I'm not the one to do it (I know nothing of underfloor heating, hence my reading the article) - Anon  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.147.156 (talk) 04:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Describing it as "prejudice against electric power" misses the point.  Electric power is very useful for many things, but using it for heating is inherently wasteful, something that is not true of using it for other applications.  This is probably not the place to explain that distinction, and apparently the deleted section didn't explain it well either.  But since it's not an issue specific to underfloor heating, it doesn't really belong in this article.  I think what we need is a brief mention of the issue with a link to the page that properly describes it.  I'll see if I can find that page somewhere.Ccrrccrr (talk) 13:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutral tone

message: There seems to be more info re: ondol in the UFH article than in the ondol article, so maybe it should just be a section of the article and not an article of its own. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.124.29.130 (talk) 10:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: oppose Replayamong23 11:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Ondol article to UFH article 

message: I don't buy the bit about reduced stack effect due to cooler walls.  The stack effect is due to the cumulative weight of the air, and the pressure that weight produces at the bottom of the stack.  Outside, with cold air, that pressure is more than inside, with warmer air.  It's the total weight of air in the building that matters, not particularly the air against the wall.  Ccrrccrr 02:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stack Effect 

message: Hello,
The architectural drawing of the HVAC system is very difficult to read, is there any chance that this could be replaced by something that is easire to undestand? The JPEG format makes it quite difficult to discern the text. (edit: Also there appears to be a mouse cursor in the image!) User A1 11:50, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Architectural Drawing 

message: I just deleted this paragraph from the environmental considerations of electric section.
"However, there are a number of systems available in the United States and worldwide that are considered energy efficient, due to the ability to significantly lower thermostat settings, ability to control heating operation through zone heating (only heating occupied rooms), thermostatic control, and low electricity usage.  Average energy saved can be up to 40% on these systems, dependent upon proper use."
"that are considered energy efficient" is not meaningful or helpful.  Lowering thermostat settings is valid and has been addressed elsewhere in the article.  The zone heating advantage is not specific to underfloor--other electric heat options have the same advantage.  Same for thermostatic control.  "low energy usage" is just a meaningless assertion.  
Finally, the 40% savings needs a citation, and a reference point (40% savings compared to what? Compared to heating the room by opening the electric oven door?)
Ccrrccrr 01:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  efficiency of electric--paragraph removed from article 

message: I just removed this confused section of the paragraph on infiltration.  
:Infiltration may also be slightly reduced relative to other types of hydronic or electric heating systems because with underfloor heating, the air is only warmed slightly above the temperature of the thermostat setting, so the temperature differential at the outside wall is less, thereby reducing air infiltration due to the stack effect. This is because air infiltration and exfiltration increase as the difference between inside and outside temperature [AT] becomes larger, and so when heated air from a furnace or baseboard heater flows against relatively cold exterior walls, the increased temperature differential results in a stack effect that draws cold air into the house through any cracks .
Ccrrccrr (talk) 14:20, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infiltration and stack effect 

message: The Underfloor_heating#Korean_ondol_technology section is under history; I would expect this more detailed info to be in the ondol article directly. Please consider moving detailed information to that article instead. Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 12:45, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move detailed content on ondol to ondol article

message: Editors here, especially those with a commercial interest in radiant floor heating, must be vigilant in maintaining a balanced perspective or refrain from contributing here (see WP:NPOV and WP:COI). The use of studies commissioned by UFH industry to support claims, the unsupported claims, and the general tone (as discussed above) all reflect a bias in favor of this technology. Jojalozzo 18:45, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV problems 

message: I've never seen a more poorly-written article in my life. I'd help, but I have other places to be, so I have taken the liberty of putting the rewrite template on the article. Lockesdonkey (talk) 22:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest we leave the tag and see if it attracts some help. Jojalozzo 19:01, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I will try to make some time to do some more here. The info and NPOV is a good start. I'm sure you also can make improvements in readability and clarity. Take it in small chunks, a paragraph or two at a time. Have a look at Making technical articles understandable. Jojalozzo 02:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Acknowledged. Thanks.RBean (talk) 17:24, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just...wow 

message: The image in Description for "Modern factory assembled hydronic control appliance..." is not very clear or informative. It would be better if we could get one with better contrast and with the covers off so we can see a bit of the insides. Jojalozzo 16:27, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Will do. The topic is looking considerably better thanks to your editing. I'll keep doing what I can with content and editing and hopefully you'll stick around to make it look good! As an alternative plan, if you want to let the article content stand as is for the time being so we can continue on with polishing I can hold off uploading additional content. Let me know your thoughts. RBean (talk) 14:45, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improve image? 

message: "Warm water UFH is 30% more efficient than low temperature radiators with a ground source heat pump, 20% more efficient with an air source heat pump, and 5-15% more efficient than low temp radiators with a condensing boiler, according to a study 2010}} produced by EU-RAY, the European Radiant Heating & Cooling Association. The study, carried out by Prof. Bjarne Olesen and Dr Michele di Carli of the International Centre for Environment and Energy, used a methodology developed to determine energy use in buildings for the European Directive EPBD. 2010}} I can't find a reference to this study. Without a citation we should not include these figures. -->"
:This section appears to have been inserted unsigned and without citations - as such I have temporarily removed it. I am familiar with the study and will search my archives for the citation. Note however efficiency is already addressed under == System efficiency and compatibility with flooring materials ==. Stand by for the citation and further comments.RBean (talk) 03:13, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "Olesen, B.W., deCarli, M., Embedded Radiant Heating and Cooling Systems: Impact of New European Directive for Energy Performance of Buildings and Related CEN Standardization, Part 3 Calculated Energy Performance of Buildings with Embedded Systems (Draft), 2005." This citation comes from Prof. Olesen's 2005 .ppt presentation in preparation for the 2007 EU-Ray meetings. I've inserted the reference and link under the existing efficiency section.RBean (talk) 05:55, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

text: In regards to stating efficiencies or emission of one system over another: this is a slippery slope as these comparisons have to be considered in context - it might be true in the conditions evaluated but will be untrue in every other case. For example one could compare underfloor heating to fan/coils using propane boilers or electric boilers or heat pumps where the electricity is generated with coal but any statement about efficiencies and emissions in the context of propane vs. coal is untrue if the power is generated with hydro. I personally don’t believe comparing efficiencies using specific values serves the article unless specific details are provided for the comparison – and even then – the text could easily become bogged down with case studies and that from my limited understanding is outside the purpose of a WP article....thoughts on this anyone? RBean (talk) 06:51, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Efficiency

message: Are the terms "floor heating" and "underfloor heating" synonymous? Are they preferred in different parts of the world (UK, US, Australia etc.)? This article uses both - which is fine by me. 79.213.78.144 (talk) 12:56, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Floor or Underfloor 

message: Underfloor heating an underfloor cooling do not belong in the same article.  Though a "hydronic radiant heating" article would be even better.  The nature of heat is to rise.  The nature of cold is to fall.  Putting underfloor cooling with underfloor heating (not talking forced air ducting here) is pandering to a certain segment of radiant heat people, those who wish to convince people that in the summertime they can use their hot water pipe heating in the floor to cool their house.  It just is not an effective way to cool a hot house.  The concept of underfloor heat is a very sound principle, as heat rises.  As long as heavy shag carpet is not installed on top of underfloor heat, it is a very sound principle.  Underfloor cooling is nonsense, except perhaps in relatively low ceiling concrete multi-story structures, where some cooling can be afforded my the cool concrete comprising the ceiling.  But this is an article on underfloor heating and cooling, and if all you have is underfloor cooling and not under-ceiling cooling, it Is nonsense. No appreciable cooling of a building's interior can be accomplished by underfloor cooling unless you are extremely short in your height, or like to lay on the tile floor a lot.  It is a selling point used by some unscrupulous folk. Bugatti35racer (talk) 00:15, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Underfloor cooling needs to go to air-conditioning subpart or something 

message: I see radiant floor heating has a long history and all things being equal the US installs s/b heavily radiant but I suspect not.  Why? What happened after Levittown and the California surge that changed radiant heat to blower forced ductwork heated air?  
I suspect that our propensity to claim technological achievement when it is actually inserting another layer of profit, and I apologize for the creator having to remove this.  Not only do we utilize metal shapers and installers, in conjunction with the furnace manufacturers, but the hidden reason is that we are not educating the people who understand the principals and install.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.50.151.151 (talk) 19:54, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perhaps some facts regarding radiant installs? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Nowhere do I see any mention of the temperature ranges used for different heating systems, or even a general temperature range in which most systems fall.   To maintain a room temperature of say 20°C, the heater must be higher, perhaps 25°C? or 30°C? or 35°C?...   The article ought to mention this.   FreeFlow99 (talk) 08:30, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temperature facts missing 

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