Talk:Pope Pius XII/Archive 14

message: Extreme bad taste and low standard responses creeping in there, I protest.
Shirer is specific enough-the votes were received , after the mention of the Holy See.But we cannot say that this was an arrangement with the Party Leadership in plural, as it is only Mowrer as primary source. We can say there is a long history of papal influence on internal politics through the Centre party(Avro Manhattan/G Paul/Cornwell Kershaw). We can say that the trickery which was a characteristic of the takeover included a purely Kaas negotiation, and that he persuaded the Party to accede to the vote as a whole, rather than split at the vote, because Kaas ran a solo negotiation with Hitler. We can say that serious historians consider , as do Shirer, and Toland, and Klemperer, that there was a bargain struck between Hitler and the Holy See as represented by sec of State Pacelli, whose tool was Kaas ( and had been since 1928 as Chairman of the Centre Party). For this there are two primary sources , Manhattan and Mowrer, several secondary and many tertiary. It is a spurious argument to call Manhattan hate literature, Chick publishing him is off-topic. We can see no source provided to negate the Shirer straightforward information nor its echo in John Toland and Klemperer and Atkin and Tallet(who may only , or not accept or mention the 2 QpQ). There needs to be contrary source to allow that it is some, as there are no others presented over the year here so exonerating. There are Pacelli comments prior and post. However I am not going to say that this job is anywhere near done unless the rolling QpQ includes what Toland and Shirer, I believe, say concerning the QpQ including the Vatican prevailing upon the whole hierarchy in Germany, with the votle face as I have relayed. There was a complete abandonment of Germany to Evil, the which relates entirely to the political tolerance of Dictatorship within the early June Encyclical Dilectissima Nobis. It is not enough to corral such overwhelming and uncontested -by-exoneration source because someone feels it is a scandal and blasphemy. Therefore no, it is not good enough. The man Pacelli needs the full treatment that source can provide, and the Hierarchy volte face at the 28 March Fulda Conference reveals that the subjugation of the well-aware and critical German Hierarchy is vital.
I get the feeling that you still do not read the words of Shirer-Bengalski.....
The abandonemnt of German catholics was chartacterised by the terms of the Reichskonkordat which involved a crucial loss of autonomy by the Holy See, this was no normal Concordat and remains a stain for that loss of autonomy and for the blackguardley and actually illegal in intertnational treaty terms , secret clause to the Rkkdt. This illegality is by no means the chief blackguardliness, the even worse scandal was the secret clause as it proves the conscious complicity with Evil(the war intentions) and coupled with the Pius XI approbation of 10 April to Goering , shows the Canonical scandal. This may not be includable as a canonical scandal, as no one outside the church would even attempt to do so. However now perhaps Bengalski you will see that we are by no means talking a little paragraph here. We are talking a complete political conspiracy to make illegal territorial war, and murder of political opponents. This resulted in WWII and the casualties and Shoah , we are aware of. Pius XI went for a strong uncompromising man at the time that that man was murdering, had murdered, political opponents. Hitler had a clear agrandizing program(equally displaced within WP) and the Hierarchy by virtue of the previous ban on Nazis in their Church, shows that they were well aware hitherto of the nature of the beast.
Try getting that stated for what it is as sourced, but not counter-sourced. and then add it to the ongoing separate conclusions and scandal of the vatican action thereafter, unto the Holocaust. And get real, kids. EffK 17:58, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Get unreal.  Robert McClenon 18:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Conscious  disruption and the True Scandal, Great Scandal

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thread_title: Copyright Question