Talk:King Rat (Clavell novel)

message: I'm still reading the James Clavell book, "King Rat".  I found one of the first edition (1962) hard cover books in a yard sale nearby my home.  The book, in excellent condition, still has its paper cover.  I'd kicked it around my bookcases during at least two moves.  Finally, one evening, desparate for some mindless reading entertainment, I found the Clavell novel again.  I picked it up and immediately noted a reccomendation by the late Ian Flemming (of the James Bond novels fame).  I had also noted the 1962 year copyright; and that the book would soon be made into a motion picture.  Well, I was about ten or eleven at that time the movie would have been released, and I would not have seen the movie at the theatre in, I believe, 1965 (movie release date).  However, I could only believe that I must have seen the movie some time in my later life (it is currently 2006).  I just couldn't recall anything about the movie.  After reading about 88 or 95 pages, I began trying to recall the movie again.  But, nothing came up.  Was I going senile?  Of course!  But, I realized that this novel was fantastic after only about 1/3 read.  The next day I was discussing it with a co-worker.  I'm in my fifties, my friend is in his seventies.  He said he'd seen the movie, but that he couldn't exactly recall the actors who would have been in the movie version.  I'd mentioned the "King" probably being played by someone like a young Steve McQueen.  My friend had said, "No...it was the actor-tough-guy ... someone like James Cagney..."  Well, we were both wrong:  it was George Segal.  Not to mention dozens of other stars and co-stars all well cast for their respective roles.  Well, back to the book.  I will not blow the ending here, but I will speak of generalities lauding the book for you readers of POW stories.  Yes, it takes place in a Japanese POW camp during WWII, in a Changi prison facility.  The POWs are from various allied nations:  Americans, Aussies, English, Scottish, Welsh...yes, and Texas, too!  This particular prisoner of war camp is, of course, controlled by Japanese military.  This takes place during the latter WWII years.  Author James Clavell was, in fact, an actual survivor of this camp, that had, apparently, held as many as 150,000 allied prisoners...which later dwindled to a mere 10,000 survivors by war's end.  Each character is so excellently fleshed out by the author's pen...he could have written a book on each character!  The "King" is this American non-com who initially seems to be a typical common-opportunist, who takes advantage of the other prisoners by scamming and conning them out of their meager assets...from food to family heirlooms.  But, the King has only acted like everyone else has...from the basis of need to survive Jap camp atrocities.  Oh, the Jap guards mostly let the men manage their own internal affairs...as long as they obey the "camp rules" and don't escape.  In fact, the real reason the pow's rations are reduced...is because the Japs themselves are having an increasing difficulty obtaining food and supplies for their own survival.  You see not only the King's character dynamically metamorphosing from one personality trait to another...as hardships and degrading camp morale and disease/slow starvation take their toll on the men's mental and physical health...but also for virtually every other character.  Well...got to go read some more of the book.  I'm no professional book reviewer/critic...but it's a hell of a read for you WWII buffs.  And, the fact that Clavell, himself, was actually inside the changi prison camp as a prisoner...lends itself to the authentic sensory literary reproduction of those unhappy and tragic years for so many brave men.  Mr. Clavell died in 1994...Well, Sir:  I'm your new fan.  I also note that Mr. Clavell was a writer of a lot of the early American TV series, including the 1959-1960 "Men in Space" series, of which I was an ardent fan at around the age of 8 or 9.  He also wrote for "The Rifleman" TV series.  I only saw the show, "Shogun", a TV mini-series in the 1980s, and I think I'd like to actually read that Clavell novel next.  Well:  get the book and read "King Rat".  I am!!!  --70.226.143.172 03:30, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: King Rat is a superb novel. I've recommended it again and again, and even people who aren't big readers can't put it down and come back to me extremely satisfied, and wanting more. Clavell has written some of the finest historical fiction ever, in my personal opinion. JubalHarshaw 18:07, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I'm having a few doubts about this statement:
:* Clavell was one of 10,000 survivors of the 150,000 prisoners held there [i.e., at Changi Prison]
In the Changi Prison article, it says
:* 850 POWs died during their internment in Changi during the Japanese occupation [2], a comparatively low rate compared to the overall death rate of 27% for POWs in Japanese camps.
So how many POWs died at Changi? Was it 140,000 or 850?
-- Sakurambo 桜ん坊 16:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That claim of 140,000 dead (93% mortality) is completely ridiculous: the overall rate for all camps was 27%, and Changi was much better than most.  See  and  (both cited as sources on the Changi Prison page). Jpatokal 06:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  There was a good reason for the ex-POWs not to commemorate such horrors: atrocities did not occur at Changi. Out of the 87,000 POWs who passed through the camp, only 850 died. Many of the fatalities at Changi were the result of battle wounds the men had suffered before being taken prisoner in 1942, not because of conditions at the prison. Compared with other POW camps, Changi did not have a high death toll. The article in turn references the Straits Times in 1945 after the liberation of Singapore, hardly a source likely to be overly sympathetic to the Japanese. Jpatokal 06:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  few who went into Changhi were still there at the conclusion of the war, not because they died at Changi but because they were sent from there to the labour camps; so there probably were about 150,000 prisoners, and only about 10,000 left, the remainder having been sent to die at Outram Road etc; in the book / film Lt Grey offers to send the King to Outram Road ("I will personally hand you over to the Japs") for wearing a smart shirt; it's not really clear from the book, or from any other source, why a few thousand were allowed to live in relative safety at Changi gaol for all that time Mr Poechalkdust (talk) 07:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction (Accuracy of figures) 

message: :Image:JamesClavell KingRat.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:JamesClavell KingRat.jpg

message: The italian edition doesnt'use the "rat" in the title.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.10.37.150 (talk) 10:02, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Different Editions

message: I've searched the available sources diligently and can't find any, so far, that substantiate what we had in the article that Theodore "Ted" Lewin was the real-life model for King Rat. The cited source makes no reference to it, and a Google and Google News search revealed nothing. If there are any other sources quoting Clavell on this point we need to add them and the reference to Lewin can be restored. Unfortunately most of what I've found simply regurgitated what was in this article, not adequately sourced. Coretheapple (talk) 21:11, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: The 'real King Rat'