Talk:Qutbism

message: Shouldn't the correct spelling be Qutbi? --Yodakii 09:23:33, 2005-09-05 (UTC)
:We need to find the origin of the English transliteration of this term. I'm not sure how widespread the Arabic label is, but I cannot recall seeing the English anywhere. It would be more English-friendly to simply use "Qutbian". --Vector4F 05:08, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Qutbee/Qutbi

message: I removed this sentence from 42992624 , as someone contested it (and I can't prove it):
:Some are rejected and some are accepted.  Shaykh Abdul-Hakim Murad, a mainstream traditional Sunni scholar blames Qutbist thought for "Islamic terror" and the attacks of 9/11.
--Vector4F 19:09, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. --Vector4F 04:56, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed Content

message: Here are some changes I think will make this entry stronger. I am posting them here first for comments because the topic may be controversial, though I hope my changes are not. 
*The statement "that almost all of Islam was headed into the era" of jahiliyya, seems toned-down. Qutb was more emphatic, saying (in Milestones) that "The Muslim community has been extinct for a few centuries" 
*Tenents of Qutbism. Milestones spends only a page or so in his book Milestones (which is his manifesto) on the subject of science. Other issues -- Shariah, Jahiliyyah, freedom, vanguard -- get much more emphasis.
*Qutb was never head of the MB but did hold a high position in the MB.
More to come.
Leroy65X 19:39, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. --Vector4F 04:56, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal for more complete entry

message: Qutbist positions on Christians are completely absent in this article, although Qutb spends a lot of time demonizing Christians in his writings.  I am sorry, but Christianity is NOT the West, and it is time to begin getting clear on that.  The Chief targets of Qutb's attacks were his fellow Egyptians -- The Copts.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.12.203.133 (talk) 18:09, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christians are absent 

message: Qutbism is the Islamic strain of thought and activism, or ideology, based on the thought and writings of Sayyid Qutb, a celebrated Islamist and former leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood who was executed in 1966.  The term Qutbee or Qutbi is used as a name for followers of these ideals, but the term is more often used as a negative label by Wahhabis or other critics, people who disagree with the Muslim Brotherhood, or want to distance themselves from the activities of militant groups whose ideology and activism is based on Sayyid Qutb's writings.  "Qutbees" (also "Qutbis") usually do not refer to themselves using this name.
:The so called "Qutbis" do not refer to themselves as Qutbies at all!  They call themselves Salafies.  If the Saudi Royal Clerks think they dont have a right to call themselves Salafies, then I think the Salafies dont have a right to call themselves Sunnies.  Why double standard? Hassanfarooqi 19:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed New Entry

message: Removed this para as it is part of the article itself Hassanfarooqi 18:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed paragraphs that were already included in the main article 

message: The Wahhabi movement in Egypt was founded by Hassan Al-Banna.  Syed Qutub was his student.  Saudi Royal clerks would sometime react to the word Wahhabi and say it is a slur against them althought they had used it initially.  They claim they are "Ahl Assunnah Wal Jama'h", a term used by traditional Sunnies.  Though among themselves, they would refer to themselves as "Salafies".  If Wahhabi is just a slur, why do they deny that Syed Qutub was a Wahhabi and refer to his works as Qutbism?  If the Wahhabies dont like the term Wahhabi, then fine, dont refer to anyone as Qutubi as no one calls himself a Qutubi!  What hypocrisy!
:The reason for that is that Qutbism just as it did with Ibn Taymeyya, has hijacked Abdul Wahhab's teachings and twisted it to gain approval, yet everything in Abdul Wahhab's teachings stand AGAINST them. They do not like the term because Abdul Wahhab never used it, Abdul Wahhab merely revived Salafi thought (refering to Salaf or the companions of the prophet and their next two generations for guidance to islamic behaviour and rulings when consensus from direct documented Islamic Hadith cannot be found). His name was basically hijacked to create this sectarian school of thought that is closer to deplorable Khawarej rather than any proper muslims or Salafis. Wahhabism in short twisted what Mohammed Abdul Wahhab said, so it is an insult to Abdul Wahhab, while Qutbism is truly established like that straight from Syed Qutb.--Sampharo (talk) 16:44, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Syed Qutub was Wahhabi/Salafi, like it or not 

message: I'm the one who wrote (at least most of) this subsection
:Following Qutb's death Qutbist ideas spread throughout Egypt and other parts of the Arab and Muslim world, prompting a backlash by more traditionalist and conservative Muslims, particularly Wahhabi/Salafi scholars. The word Qutbee is said to have first been used by Saudi Arabian Wahhabi Muslims to refer not only to explicit devotees of Qutb's ideas, but to Muslim Brotherhood members and their sympathizers in general (despite the fact that there is a range of opinion among Muslim Brethren on Qutb's ideas.) The word Qutbee is similar in its use (though not its meaning!) to the term Wahhabi, in that it is used not by the Qutbees and Wahhabis themselves but by their opponents. 
The information comes from the authors Kepel and Roy. Since it is causing so much disagreement here I will try to find the time to find the pages where the info came from. --Leroy65X 15:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History of the word "Qutbee"

message: POV tag was attached by an anon with no comment. I propose that without an explanation of what is allegedly POV, the tag be removed. OK with you Mezzmezzo?  --Leroy65X 20:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Neofundamentalist refuse to express their views in modern terms borrowed from the West. They consider that indulging in politics, even for a good cause, will by definition lead to bid'a and shirk (the giving of priority to worldly considerations over religious values.)" Roy, Globalized Islam, (2004), p.247  --Leroy65X 21:00, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

text: That's perfectly fine by me.  Arawiki, however, is removing two pieces of sourced info and added one piece POV here claiming that it is "per talk", yet still hasn't removed the tag despite seeming to agree here.  Why? MezzoMezzo 15:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

text: He was speaking about mocking Prophets, which is something Bin Baaz and other modern salafi scholars accused Qutb of doing. MezzoMezzo 15:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Ibn Baz was speaking about mocking Prophets, but he never accused Qutb of doing. This is what you and your group are trying to claim. --Arawiki 17:06, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is clearly incorrect.  Bin Baaz was one of many scholars who did accuse him of that. MezzoMezzo 09:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a Jamee's lie. Ibn Baz was speaking about mocking Prophets, but he never accused Qutb of doing.--Arawiki 18:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is common knowledge that Bin Baaz made that statement about mockery of prophets being apostasy...when the statement of Qutb was brought to him.  Please don't accuse me of lying. MezzoMezzo 03:06, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV tag

message: Why isn't there a section that defines and demonstrates the invalidity of Qutbism main tenets under proper Islamic rulings? e.g. impermissibility of suicide attacks, forbidding of killing women and children, strict conditions to Jihad and impermissibility to rebel against even unjust rulers.--Sampharo (talk) 16:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You have to have a reliable source criticizing Qutbism and saying that. --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: This is the sentence:
//
The most controversial aspect of Qutbism is Qutb's idea that Islam is "extinct,"[...]
//
It says 'most controversial' which doesn't really add anything to the sentence - also , it needs a reference (or a quote?) to illustrate the Qutb's opinion / idea that 'Islam is extinct'.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monowiki (talk • contribs) 23:42, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: = POV Statement: needs to be made neutral and sources provided 

message: What makes a strategic planner at the US Army War College a reliable source regarding the tenets of a religious ideology? 94.222.183.169 (talk) 06:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dale C. Eikmeier 

message: The article is centered on what other Muslims and the west think, is wrong with Qutbism, and what Qutbism thinks about the west, and on how it influenced Al Qaeda. 
Important void is, why the Qutbist version of Islam does appeal so much to the poor and disenfranchised groups within Muslim societies. The answer is, that to them, Qutbism is not primarily about confrontation with the west, but about ending racism and inequality in the Muslim world. To them, Qutbism is about race and class. Statements about freedom and the need to do away with "one man's lordship over another," run like a mantra through Qutb's most read work 'Milestones' ( Ma'alim fi al-Tariq ).http://gemsofislamism.tripod.com/milestones_qutb.html#answer_equality Somalia's Shabaab also functions as an emancipation and protection movement for Somalia's 'Bantu' ex-slaves, and the same counts for Ansar Dine in northern Mali.
Nobody objects if I add an extra point to the Tenets section, and a few lines to the Spread of Qutb's ideas section? Pieter Felix Smit (talk) 08:00, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appeal of Qutbism to underclass Muslims in Muslim countries.. 

message: Hello all,
I have made edits to disentangle 'traditionalist' and Salafi as the article was conflating these concepts in three places:
- "...have come under attack from traditionalist/conservative/Wahhabi Muslims." The use of '/' suggests that the three terms are equivalent.
- "Traditionalist critics maintain "Islaam has affirmed slavery ... And it will continue so long as Jihaad in the path of Allaah exists." (Shaikh Salih al-Fawzaan)" - Actually sourced from a website called salafipublications.com
In contrast, here is an example of what leading contemporary traditionalists say of slavery: 
"Dr. Ali Abdul Baqi, head of the al-Azhar Islamic Research Centre, stressed that “international laws and charters have been issued prohibiting slavery and enshrining human freedom, and so ‘melk al-yameen’ has ended, and it is no longer present and will not return.”
He added “talking about ‘melk al-yameen’ now represents a return to the era of jahiliyyah and an invitation to forbidden and sinful sexual relations.”
http://english.aawsat.com/theaawsat/features/egypt-slavery-marriage-case-sparks-controversy
- "the more traditional Salafi Muslims, and the more radically active Muslim groups associated with the Muslim Brotherhood"
To be clear, the very concept of Salafiyyah is to go back directly to the ways of the Prophet's companions, i.e. thus bypassing 14 centuries of evolution of Islamic thought, tradition and culture. Salafiyyah is a modern reformist movement that seeks to "cleanse" Islam from the heresies and "bida" of traditional Islamic thought. Salafiyyah and traditionalism are two opposite orientations in contemporary Islamic thought, so it is really necessary to maintain a distinction between them. (e.g. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2003/04/the-real-islam/378533/)
183.89.30.172 (talk) 09:23, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Traditionalist vs Salafi/Wahhabi 

message: Hello again,
The 'Muslim criticism' section currently contains only criticisms on ultra-puritanical religious grounds, like Qutb's anti-slavery. It would be great if someone could add some more 'mainstream' critiques, e.g. about religion vs political ideology, etc. 183.89.30.172 (talk) 09:29, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mainstream criticism 

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thread_title:  External links modified