Talk:List of disasters in the United States by death toll

message: Not that I want to question the content, but it says that the 1896's tornado caused $ 3 billons in damage? In 1896 dollars... seems a bit excessive and unlikely?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.103.184.76 (talk) 14:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: 1896 Tornado?

message: *Merge with other article G Clark 19:02, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: merge

message: This list is obviously in early development. and would presumably include lots of disasters that are not natural, so how can it be merged in. ie natural disast list would be a subset of this. See List of United Kingdom disasters by death toll for comparison (obviously the model on which this list has been started). mervyn 11:38, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm merging the two into a sortable table, so people can separate the manmade from the natural disasters if they would like, but can also easily compare them. -- Beland 02:38, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't merge

message: ---Umm, what about the Great Chicago Fire?
From great chicago fire page:
After the fire, 125 bodies were recovered. Final estimates of the fatalities ranged from 200-300, considered a small number for such a large fire. In later years, other disasters in the city would claim more lives: 571 died in the Iroquois Theater fire in 1903; and, in 1915, 835 died in the sinking of the Eastland excursion boat in the Chicago River. Yet the Great Chicago Fire remains Chicago's most well-known disaster, for the magnitude of the destruction and the city's subsequent recovery and growth.
shouldn't some of these be in here?
:Added. -- Beland 02:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chicago fire

message: 2,749 died in World Trade Center on 9/11/2001
:Added. -- Beland 02:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 9/11

message: Did the Titanic sink in the US? If not, why is it here?
Frunobulax (talk) 17:54, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, another criteria that I just discovered in the lead is that it just has to involve U.S. citizens, which the Titanic did. United States Man (talk) 01:41, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case, shouldn't the number of fatalities in this list reflect only the fatalities who were US nationals?  --rogerd (talk) 17:09, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Titanic

message: The table sorting is mostly automatic, but there's more documentation available at Help:Sorting if anyone needs it. -- Beland 01:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sortable table

message: Before this List is expanded further there should be a debate about whether acts of war are to be included in a list of disasters? I suggest not -- mainly because "war" is a different order of event from what is commonly thought of as "disaster". Also, disaster usually refers to a distinct event, rather than a series of events grouped over years. Am interested to read other thoughts on this. --mervyn 12:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some related lists use the phrase "wars and disasters", which is fine if you don't consider war to be a disaster because it is usually intentional on at least one side.  I do think it's useful to put both in the same table, to make it easy to compare across causes. -- Beland 22:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Inclusion of "War" or not

message: horrible. the title of the article is, in part "by death toll". but it's not ordered at all. the inclusion of war (which is debateable) is in the middle of the list. so, are we to understand that 'millions' is less than 'thousands'? absurd. also, there are no references, besides reference to other wikipedia articles. that's not terribly encyclopedic, particularly when some of those article have zero references of their own. Anastrophe 06:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The disaster is the list

message: I have organized the data by type and fatalities, but I don't know how to make charts so it is all lumped up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.15.131.246 (talk) 01:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Organized but table gone

message: The fatalities column in this article states how many people died in the disaster overall (e.g. World War I, shows millions of casualties, when the vast majority of these will not have anything to to with the USA), I think the problem needs to be rectified, so that the fatalities list only includes people who have died in the USA, or USA citizens who have died in a disaster abroad.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.207.135.211 (talk) 15:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fatalities

message: I've now sorted the article into descending order of number of deaths given in the table, assuming for the purposes of sorting that the number of deaths was small but nonzero if not given. This should give better results for the inital presentation of the list, in particular for browsers with Javascript turned off. -- The Anome (talk) 01:12, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: in particular, the French and Indian War has been sorted right down the list because no death toll was given in the list. Can somone please add a citable figure for the death toll, and sort it into its right place in death toll order? -- The Anome (talk) 01:16, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sorted into order

message: Firstly, you might just want to list the United States death toll, this is after all an article about disasters in the United States or outside involving US residents. Secondly, a mass murder or school shooting are not classified as "Terrorism" and terrorism itself is not a disaster, the correct wording should be "Terrorist attack". A fair bit of work needs to be done. Nick carson (talk) 07:04, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: A few tips...

message: When I try to sort the events by death toll (for lowest first), it puts them into alphabetical order, not numerical.  Does anyone know how to fix that?  Googlemeister (talk) 17:24, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: sorting capabilities

message: There should be some type of minimum death toll for it to be counted on this list. In my opinion, if no one died, it's not really a national disaster. Thoughts? Griffinofwales (talk) 21:06, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: death toll minimum

message: I really don't think that events that happened outside the US belong here; they aren't, strictly speaking, US disasters.  I'd make an (admittedly somewhat arbitrary) exception for the USS Maine and the RMS Titanic, since they were distinctly US "properties" and virtually if not all on board were US citizens.  The rest are incidental, mostly very recent in timing (Haiti, 2004 tsunami) and create a slippery slope - where do you draw the line on deaths that happen elsewhere?  A train accident in Europe that happens to have 20 US citizens on it... do you then have to include that?
I've taken out ones that fit that category, but if you can make a good argument otherwise, I'm game. ΨνPsinu 10:57, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Occurrences outside the US

message: This list has no sources given for the list ordering.  And it is clearly missing numerous entries, as for Hurricane Floyd which is mysteriously absent.  You're telling me these are the only US disasters that have had 0 or more fatalities?  What about the car wreck in my town the other day?  This article needs some serious overhaul and actual research done, or it should not exist. — jdorje (talk) 16:12, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  How can anyone claim this is accurate? 

message: Other similar lists include the Spanish Flu, and so should this one.  There are numerous sources that list the US death toll from it.  I'm not savvy enough to edit the chart myself, but I will post the ref.
According to the US Govt. at least 675,000 Americans died.  http://1918.pandemicflu.gov/the_pandemic/index.htm
67.82.203.34 (talk) 22:26, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Spanish Flu needs to be included. 

message: Several of the events on this listed as tornadoes were outbreaks rather than individual tornadoes, such as the April 25–28, 2011 tornado outbreak. Should this article distinguish between outbreaks and single tornadoes with high death tolls? TornadoLGS (talk) 21:55, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should. I was looking at it the other day and thought that it made no sense. It is very misleading to the reader whether the toll was from a single tornado or the entire outbreak. United States Man (talk) 05:18, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay then. Done. TornadoLGS (talk) 05:24, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Good job, and good thinking, that needed to be done. United States Man (talk) 05:27, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tornado vs. tornado outbreak 

message: I have started this RfC to receive feedback on whether or not both Direct and Indirect Deaths should be listed for 2012's Hurricane Sandy. It is worth noting that just below Sandy's entry, the 2011 Joplin tornado has only Direct Deaths listed. United States Man (talk) 03:36, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should be listed with the direct death toll, and have the indirect deaths mentioned in the comments section,considering most hurricane articles list direct and indirect death separately where it is possible. TornadoLGS (talk) 04:27, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *Agree with Tornado (although he does sound slightly biased...!!! lol) Basket Feudalist  16:18, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC:Should Direct Deaths or both Direct and Indirect Deaths be listed for [[Hurricane Sandy]] 

message: The tornado leveled the town of Woodward, Oklahoma not Woodward, Texashttp://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=events-19470409  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.115.10.50 (talk) 23:04, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  1947 Woodward tornado 

message: While I always question the value of such lists as there - the Beacon St fire of 2014, which killed 2 Boston firefighters is listed. but the Hotel Vendome fire which killed 9 BFD FFs is not; likewise, the 1916 trolley disaster which killed 46 is not, though the Molasses Flood is. Irish Melkite (talk) 10:02, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Massachusetts Missing 

message: "by death toll" is inaccurate, as it can be sorted multiple ways and death toll is merely one of those - while that might have been the initial basis for listing, it is no longer the sole one (and for many, will not be the one of most interest, as I suspect location would be a popular choice. Irish Melkite (talk) 10:07, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Jonestown should not be on this list, since it occurred in a foreign country.
137.125.142.65 (talk) 00:39, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: "This list of United States disasters by death toll is a list of notable disasters which occurred either in the United States, at diplomatic missions of the United States, or incidents outside of the United States in which a number of U.S. citizens were killed."Undescribed (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jonestown 

message: Just wondering. Shouldn't this article also mention massacres of Native American civilians like Camp Grant or Colfax etc.? Aaton77 (talk) 10:16, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Native Americans 

message: Every incident that causes a death isn’t a disaster. (While a definition outside Wikipedia is, of course, better, let’s use this one for convenience.) Qwirkle (talk) 15:47, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent additions reverted 

message: I'm not sure what the inclusion criteria are here, but one might want to consider adding the great 1936 North American heat wave, which has been blamed for approximately 5,000 deaths (due in part to the lack of air conditioning in most homes and businesses as of 1936).  Dragons flight (talk) 08:23, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Added. -- Beland (talk) 20:25, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heat wave of 1936 

message: Instead of grouping lists by number of deaths, why not do it by type of disaster and then include only the top ten death tolls in each? It would be useful to know what kinds of disasters can wreak havoc in the United States. 9March2019 (talk) 03:53, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better organization of sections 

message: So, we've had a number of people who apparently don't know how to read come in and add the current coronavirus pandemic even though the lead states that epidemics are not included. Is there any way we can curb these? TornadoLGS (talk) 03:59, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't disagree that it's a disaster. I did a look through the history. I found that the statement was first included as "Epidemics are not yet included at all," to cite the list not being comprehensive and was later shortened to its current form. But for some reason other epidemics, such as the Spanish Flu, have been kept off. If we include COVID-19, we have to include other epidemics, too. I'm going to start another discussion below about this. TornadoLGS (talk) 00:29, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  COVID19 

message: I was one of those users who added coronavirus to this page. Can you clarify why epidemics are not included beyond it says so on the page? This is clearly a disaster.  If Jonestown and 9/11, non-natural disasters are included, why would coronavirus not be included? Clearly with the addition to this page by several people, folks think this is a disaster.  Even the Surgeon_General_of_the_United_States recently stated "This is going to be our Pearl Harbor moment and our 9/11 moment only it's not going to be localized, it's going to be happening all over the country."   Librarianbs (talk)
:I don't disagree that it's a disaster. I did a look through the history. I found that the statement was first included as "Epidemics are not yet included at all," to cite the list not being comprehensive and was later shortened to its current form. But for some reason other epidemics, such as the Spanish Flu, have been kept off. If we include COVID-19, we have to include other epidemics, too. I'm going to start another discussion below about this. TornadoLGS (talk) 00:29, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request to clarify 

message: Am currently working on expanding the list with tornado outbreaks from using List of North American tornadoes and tornado outbreaks. I noticed that right now this list currently mostly only contains single tornadoes with high numbers of fatalities (e.g. 2013 Moore tornado is listed as 24 deaths), and yet the 2011 Super Outbreak is counted as a single disaster with 348 deaths rather than individual tornadoes which each killed no more than 72 people, and even includes 24 non-tornadic deaths. As a compromise, my idea would be to count all deaths caused by the system in the US and clarify if any are non-tornadic in nature, and also list in the "notes" column any tornadoes which, on their own, would qualify for the list. Thoughts? Ionmars10 (talk) 22:05, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tornado vs. tornado outbreak, redux 

message: The air pollution pandemic kills millions worldwide every year. 2603:9001:9202:78BF:ED7F:B274:1CB6:3A93 (talk) 21:56, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Air pollution pandemic is more important than Aids & Covid overall 

message: I've been researching this through Wikipedia, Grazulis, AMS articles, and NWS websites (among others) and am about to publish my article. (Of note, researching the towns to create proper links for everything is extremely time-consuming.) And I've announced this in three different major weather-related Talk types of pages, and I still see folks adding more tornado information on this page. I'd rather my 6+ weeks of research didn't become irrelevant or, worse, deleted. 
Maybe we can make this page non-meteorological in nature and refer folks elsewhere for those? Wasn't someone working on pages with death tolls caused by hurricane and/or flooding? If not, maybe we can work on those pages as well? I'd obviously be happy to create a deadliest hurricane page once I finish posting these tornado-related pages. Dym75 (talk) 19:16, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deadliest Tornadoes in the Americas (U.S./Canada/Mexico/etc.) 

message: About a million people died of it, and there's no section for it. 2600:6C67:8C00:5A61:6DBB:1679:52AF:DD89 (talk) 14:27, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  There should be a section for the Opiate Epidemic 

message: I don't think they're disasters as they don't really have an effect on debris nor buildings. 120.28.224.32 (talk) 14:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know. 120.28.230.88 (talk) 12:50, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should we remove pandemics and epidemics from the list?