Talk:Ladislav

message: The king name was Władysław in Polish and was also spelled: Wladislaus (early Latinized version) or Vladislaus (late Latin and English version), never Ladislaus. This shoud be corrected. Below is a sample of original documents sign by the Vladislaus kings. Althout the form Wladislaus was used more often, in my opinion Vladislaus is much better here, beacuse it is more modern version and more English. Vladislaus Rex 00:33, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  King Vladislaus or Wladislaus (never Ladislaus) 

message: I've certainly seen historians (e.g. Norman Davies) use the version Ladislaus. Stop changing the articles, please. Ausir 00:49, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vladislaus vs. Ladislaus 

message: I did some counts at Talk:Wladislaus_I_Herman_of_Poland and the most popular variant is Vladislav where this disambig should be moved. Google search indicates there is no common English spelling, with the three most popular variants being Vladislav (1m), Ladislav (800k) and Wladyslaw/Władysław (400k). Out of the latinized versions, Ladislaus is the most popular one with 111,000 hits. As I explained on the W.Herman talk page, in the case of Polish kings Władysław is the best choice. I have done similar research on the pages about other Polish kings and the most logical answer seems to be the following formula: Polish first name, roman numeral, second name in English if nickname, in Polish if a proper surname. I plan to move all Polish kings to their new, better names soon, and I recommend adoption of a similar scheme for all European kings.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 02:40, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming, revisited 

message: Hungarian: "A László férfinév a szláv Vladislav névből fejlődött Ladiszló, Ladszló, Lacló, László alakokon keresztül. A szláv név elemeinek jelentése: hatalom és dicsőség."
Polish: "Władysław lub Ładysław - imię męskie pochodzenia słowiańskiego. Wywodzi się od słowa oznaczającego 'ten, który zawładnął sławą'. Istnieje teoria, iż jest to pierwotnie imię bułgarskie, zapożyczone przez Węgry do Polski i za pośrednictwem polskim zaszczepione w Czechach. Na polskim gruncie powstała również inna forma tego imienia, bardziej dostosowana do specyfiki jęz. polskiego: Włodzisław. Nie jest możliwe określenie, która z tych form pojawiła się w Polsce wcześniej."
German: "Die Herkunft ist aus dem slawischen Raum und bedeutet in der wortwörtlichen Übersetztung 'Ruhm und Macht'. Eine Theorie besagt, dass der Name ursprünglich aus dem Bulgarische Sprache entlehnt wurde und später nach Ungarn und Polen gelangte. Die Tschechen haben den Namen durch Polen vermittelt bekommen. Im polnischen Sprachgebraucht existiert noch die alternative Form Włodzisław. Welche der beiden Formen zuerst in Polen benutzt wurde ist nicht bekannt."
The origin of the name is in Slavonic languages and their region. The literal translation is "Fame and Power". There is a theory that the name was originally loaned from ancient non-Slavic Bolgar language in Ukraine and taken later to Poland and Hungary. The Czechs have received the name from Poland. In Polish usage there however existed an alternative form, Wlodzislaw (though it is unknown which of the two forms was firstly used in proto-Polish). Shilkanni 17:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a disambiguation page.  While it lists the variants of the name in various vernaculars, is this really the place to detail hypotheses about linguistic borrowing?  Moreover, this is highly suspect.  I see that you took out the blatantly wrong assertion that the origin of the name came from non-Slavic Bolgar in your edit to the actual page, but I think it is quite questionable whether the name was borrowed into Czech from Polish.  The name occurs earlier in the Czech (well, Moravian) ruling elite than in the Polish.  I am not sure this paragraph (in whatever) form really belongs in the actual article. Imladjov 19:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is no longer a pure disambig page. And it is well allowed to dvelop this page further. This could as well be the article (the report) of research knowledge about the origins and the use of the name Ladislaus. Its article name certainly is fitting for that purpose. (If someone wants a pure disambig page, it c/should be at Ladislaus (disambiguation)) Shilkanni 23:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fine, but even so, the paragraph you inserted contains various inaccuracies as I pointed out above and as noted by Cyon (below).  Given that it becomes worthless: the phrasing "origin of the name is in Slavonic languages and their region" is of questionable style and at any rate covered more precisely by noting that the name is Slavic.  The path of borrowing from Polish to Czech is both unproved and unlikely.  The direct path from any language in Ukraine to Polish and Hungarian likewise.  The existence of the alternative Polish form is already noted in the intro.  The translation "Fame and Power" is inaccurate as Cyon pointed out below.  While the translation of the two elements in the name is clear enough ("rule" or "ruling" and either "glory" or "Slavs"), it would be difficult to provide an unassailable precise translation.  Given all the problems with this paragraph, I am editing it out. Imladjov 13:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I am sorry, but you obviously got it wrong. First, not non-Slavic Bolgar language, but Slavic Bulgarian language. I guess the assumption of such an origin of the name was made because of a certain phonetic feature: the proto-Slavic phonetic group *vold had different continuations in different Slavic languages. The Bulgarian (and OCS) had vlad, Polish has włod (which was earlier equal to vlod), and Eastern Slavic volod. Another name with this morphem is Vladimir (which is OCS form used in Russian), compare Polish Włodzimierz and Ukrainian (which uses native Eastern Slavic form) Volodymyr. The form Władysław simply doesn't conform to rules of Polish historical phonology and that's why it is regarded to be a borrowing. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect it to be borrowed to Poland via Ukraine, because there were many loanwords in Eastern Slavonic from OCS due to liturgical use of the latter in orthodox church - but in fact, both Polish and German verisons you cited don't mention Ukraine, but Hungary. And last, the name doesn't literally mean "Fame and Power" although it is a compound of two morphemes of similar meaning (one of which is usually regarded to be verbal, in Polish version above: "He who rules over fame"). Another possibility is that the name was borrowed from Czech or Moravian (which share form vlad with Bulgarian), or to be more exact the underlying word: Polish władza ('power'), władać ('to rule') in comparison to Polish native forms włodarz (originally: 'ruler'), włości (originally 'things that are ruled' = 'estate'). Cyon 21:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  what other wikis say 

message: I spent some time today trying to sort out several variations of Wladyslaw III, Ladislaus II, and so forth.  While adding disambiguation notes to various pages, it became clear to me that Wikipedia badly needs a Ladislaus (disambiguation) page.  The question is now, whether to just move this Ladislaus page to the new name, or start up a separate disambiguation page (I created one today, which is temporarily redirecting here).  Does anyone have an opinion on "start a new disambig page" vs. "move this one"? --Elonka 23:27, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ladislaus (disambiguation)]] - proposed page move 

message: in my opinion move this one is the best idea  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zawada (talk • contribs) 00:22, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  move this page 

message: I see a "speedy deletion" banner on the front side of this page. eEven if there are no pages pointing to "Ladislav", that name could be entered manually in a search, and sending such a user over to Ladislaus (disambiguation) is a help. — Tonymec (talk) 22:42, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oppose speedy deletion