Talk:Cossack Hetmanate

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cossack hetmanate.jpg

message: "Herb Viyska Zaporozkogo (Alex K).svg →"--FifthCylon (talk) 07:17, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  something is broken 

message: Could someone please fix that?--FifthCylon (talk) 15:12, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  successor state arrow is broken 

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thread_title: File:Ukrainian Cossack state Zaporizhian Host 1649 1653.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Excuse me, but as a history student I can not accept this article because of many antihistoric statements about "State creation" and "State existing". It's only modern modern ukrainian vission, links are from pro-ukrainian internet pages. Look discussion in Russian Talk about this article. It must be fully reviewed and fixed according professional historians statements, who analyzed the history of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Chmelnicki Uprising. Now thsi artical seems as falsification of history. --86.100.205.18 (talk) 14:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antihistoric statements

message: Per Magocsi (citation added to intro), "The name Hetmanate, especially in Russian sources, referred to Cossack regiments in Left-bank Ukraine that were under of the authority of Moscow's hetman, from 1667 onward. This excludes both Zaporizha and Sloboda Ukraine" (paraphrasing). In his work, he refers to the state as the Cossack state, since it covers all attempted unified cossack statehood (and also that the cossack state only existed in the Hetmanate from 1711 onward). He says the official names were Zaporizhian Host and Army of Zaporizha.
Since this article almost entirely relies on Magocsi's work, we should use the name he suggests. As it stands, 'Hetmanate' is like calling the UK just Scotland.--Львівське (говорити) 08:53, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Wrong. What an ignorant claim. The entire state, not only a small part of it, is referred to as "Hetamante" (Гетьманщина) by multiple historians other than your source. For example, Mytsyk, Bazhan, and Vlasov refer to it as "Hetmanshchyna (Гетьманщина) here: . Lev Okinshevych, Arkadii Zhukovsky from the Encyclopedia of Ukraine call the country "Hetman State": . Oleksandr Saltovskiy refer to it as "Ukrainian state-Hetmanate" (Українська держава-Гетьманщина), "Hetman state" (гетьманська держава), and simply Hetmanate (Гетьманщина). He also says that the Hetmanate covered both sides of the Dnipro from Khmelnytsky until Doroshenko.  Valeriy Smoliy call the country "Ukrainian Cossack State", "Zaporizhyan Host", and "Hetmanate" (pg 14) here: . I can still easily find more sources. --BoguSlav 07:58, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename article suggestion 

message: Part of this article uses anachronisms, i.e. "government of Ukraine" and "Belarus." The term "government of Ukraine" evokes the modern state of Ukraine, which did not yet exist. Perhaps "government of the Hetmanate" would be better? And the reference to "lands of Belarus" also implies Belarus was a distinct political entity which was not the case, and would not be for centuries. I do not know how to correct this because I am not familiar with the original source material, if there is any. We also need a reference to what "repressions" were carried out and how the "government of Ukraine" notified the population about this. Giordano Bruno (talk) 18:49, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Firstly, you seem to be confusing what the term 'anachronism' means. What is being done is the reverse: modern conventions for areas and peoples are replacing anachronistic terminology (Ruthenians, Little Russians, White Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusins, etc.) for areas which would be meaningless to most Anglophone readers. This usage of terminology is completely in keeping with contemporary scholarly Slavic studies conventions in the Anglophone world... in fact, this usage dates back many, many decades due to the discrepancy in nomenclature for the regions in question dependent on whether the information was derived from the Grand Duchy of Moscow, the Tsardom of Russia, the Russian Empire, Polish, Hungarian, Austro-Hungarian and a myriad of other sources. If it's good enough for historical scholars and ethnologists to standardise the terms, it's perfectly fine for Wikipedia to follow the same principle in order to disentangle an already convoluted understanding of the history of Eastern Europe. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:17, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: "Government of Ukraine" and lands of "Belarus"

message: My memory for these events isn't 100%, but it seems that this was true of only part of the Hetmanate, during a period of time known as the Ruin.  During that time the Hetmanate was divided and only one part (under Doroshenko) became a protectorate of the Ottomans, another part had an autonomous status under Russia.  While placing "Protectorate of the Ottoman Empire" in an infobox alongside statuses as protectorate of Russia (post-Pereyaslav), independent state (1648-1650s) might be appropriate, only including the Ottoman part is a bit misleading, as doing so unrealistically magnifies the Ottoman relationship.  So either add the rest, or remove this one piece.Faustian (talk) 20:02, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It is indeed an interesting piece of history. The problem is that the infobox should not overemphasize this part.  If only the Ottoman part is included, the result is undue weight to this aspect of the Hetmanate's relationship with other countries and affiliations.  If you want to add this part, then you also ought to add the other parts at the same time.  regards,Faustian (talk) 23:07, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

text: If you're not familiar with anything aside from your own particular area of interest, you reinstate the content with the 'citation needed' and add your own referenced content. Also, you do not continue to level unfounded accusations against other editors, particularly since you've now turned my talk page, this talk page, and your own talk page into your personal bullying pages while misrepresenting me as being the bully. I'm not even going to start enumerating the number of policies you've already violated in your 'communications' with me. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:02, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

text: Thank you.  That being said, you ought to dial down your anger a bit...Faustian (talk) 05:34, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok I will. GOOSFRABA Alexis Ivanov (talk) 18:15, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Protectorate of Ottoman Empire?

message: There is a view expressed in edits to the article page that the article should say "In Ukrainian historiography the Cossack Hetmanate is regarded as a state".  One of the citations given for this is the Encyclopedia of Ukraine.  But this article does not say this; it says that it was a "Ukrainian Cossack state".  Another source is Ізборник, Проблема Держави в Козацьку Добу also says it was a state. (Тодді не розуміє української мови.)  I failed to download the third source.  
Wikipedia:No original research says "The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.[1] This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources."  Does someone have a reliable source that explicitly says that it is only in Ukrainian historiography that the Cossack Hetmanate is regarded as a state?-- Toddy1 (talk) 22:09, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. This is original research, and precisely why I have been removing it. The Encyclopedia of Ukraine is a Canadian publication. You can simply go to its Wikipedia page and find that University of Toronto Press publishes it. This is already proof that not only Ukrainian historiography sees it this way. As for the first Ukrainian-language link, there are many references to the statehood of the Hetmanate. Here is a google translate of the link that you couldn't access: . It clearly says the phrase "Ukrainian Cossack state". I will pin  and , who have also contributed to this article.--BoguSlav 04:26, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to let you know that the PDF wasn't archived, but I found another link for it here, so I've updated the reference in the article. It's referred to as being a Cossack State, so any form of descriptor like 'historiography' implying that it's problematic should be eradicated per WP:WORDS. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:59, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Ukrainian historiography the Cossack Hetmanate is regarded as a state 

message: , was there a reason for your deletion of the section on foreign relations?  Or was it an accident?-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:56, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: accident returned information I deleted and returned information he deleted. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 08:06, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:18, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this was no accident. It was fairly obvious based on the huge loss of information in his edit, that he was aware that he was deleting more than just the information in the infobox.--BoguSlav 05:35, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  It was an accident, or else I wouldn't restore it. You can think however you want. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 05:50, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of foreign relations section 

message: The infobox information gets out of proportion. There is really no need to emphasize the military political status of the country. The article on Moldavia has nothing like that, while Cossack Hetmanate openly supported the faction of Vasile Lupu against his opposition which was supported by the Polish Crown and Transylvania. Same goes for Kingdom of Hungary and even Grand Duchy of Moscow where it is never mentioned in the infobox about Muscovy being part of the Golden Horde for most of its history. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 12:57, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I have made two minor edits to the formatting of the status in the infobox.  Does that help?-- Toddy1 (talk) 20:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  It looks much better visually, excellent edit. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 23:37, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

text: >Placing the status of "protectorate" in the infobox undermines the periods in the history of the Cossack Hetmanate when it was independent of any agreement that bound it to either the Ottoman Empire or Muscovy.It was never independent when it was bound by the 1655 and 1669 Vassalage and Protectorate of the Ottoman Empire.>Also, under hetman Ivan Vyhovsky, the Cossack Hetmanate negotiated the Treaty of Hadiach, during which Ukraine was considered an equal partner in the Polish-Lithuanian union. This would also have to be included in an already-overcrowded infoboxAnd then a year later Moscow imposed the "Pereyaslav Articles" such a short lived Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian union, YAWN>For these reasons, the "protectorate" status in the infobox places WP:UNDUE weight on a very brief period in the Cossack Hetmanate's history.The "Treaty of Hadiach" is much shorter than the protectorate status that the Cossack Hetmanate gained.>This should best be reserved for the history section, foreign relations section, or both. Moreover, as I documented with multiple quotes above, the Cossack Hetmanate was entirely autonomous under Ottoman protection; the agreement only practically included mutual military obligations.Being autonomous and being a vassal aren't mutually exclusive. Saying "mutual military obligations" is twisting the author's word, when in fact every vassal of the Ottoman Empire, the Ottoman lends protection and some of those vassals are required to send in military assistance.>Finally, it seems like the common consensus for other similar articles on Wikipedia (such as Moldavia, the Grand Duchy of Muscovy, etc) pointed out by Aleksandr Grigoryev, is to exclude this information from the infoboxYet Principality of Transylvania and Wallachia have the Ottoman vassalage in their infobox. Moldavia will get it's own Ottoman Vassalage in the infobox once we have reputable source and the specific dates. The Cossack didn't have a vassalage, but with reputable sources and excellent time frames we have the ability to add them in as editors. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 06:10, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not up to you to decide what happened in history. The Treaty of Hadiach did happen. Also, for the first few years of its existence the Hetmanate was not a signatory to any treaty or alliance. "Being autonomous and being a vassal aren't mutually exclusive.Sure, but the author only places "vassal" in quotation marks because the Hetmanate was never a true vassal. Part of his explanation is that the Hetmanate remained autonomous and the two parties took on a deal of mutual non-agresssion and mutual military assistance. Furthermore, the author says that the Hetmanate was not much of a Ottoman entity. The Ottomans agreed to station its troops in the Hetmanate, but never did occupy the Cossack land per their agreement. In the end, the Ottomans were never really invested in the Cossack Hetmanate, which made it very easy for the Ottomans to just abandon the Cossacks and leave them to join the Muscovites. Presenting the Cossack Hetmanate as a protectorate, vassal, or sanjak of the Ottoman Empire only exaggerates the level of involvement that Ottoman Empire had with the Ukrainian state.--BoguSlav 22:42, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  >It's not up to you to decide what happened in history.I never said it's up nor have I implied that, so please don't lie about me>The Treaty of Hadiach did happen.I never said it didn't happen, you are telling me things I already know>Also, for the first few years of its existence the Hetmanate was not a signatory to any treaty or allianceWhat time period is that please mention it here. Just want to make sure before you change your mind on the definition of the word "few years" I want to be specific and detailed.>"Being autonomous and being a vassal aren't mutually exclusive.SureMaybe try to understand that first before telling me it is "autonomous" like other Ottoman Vassals."but the author only places "vassal" in quotation marks because the Hetmanate was never a true vassal."Which page, please, because the author didn't put a quotation mark in page 146 and page 138.>Part of his explanation is that the Hetmanate remained autonomous and the two parties took on a deal of mutual non-agresssion and mutual military assistance.With that logic, every vassal had a mutual obligation which isn't the case, the overlords have the power to protect their vassals, and the vassal is required to lend in military assistance. This isn't a military alliance as you make it to be nor are they equal in status.>Furthermore, the author says that the Hetmanate was not much of a Ottoman entity.Who said it was an Ottoman entity?? It was an Ottoman vassal.>The Ottomans agreed to station its troops in the HetmanateNo they didn't, the Ottomans offered to do that in on 10 August 1668 but they agreed not to that and the agreement was signed on by the granting of an Ottoman patent on June 1669. Maybe you need to re-read the book again.>but never did occupy the Cossack land per their agreement.The agreement was not to station troops in Kodak.>In the end, the Ottomans were never really invested in the Cossack HetmanateIn the end, the Cossack Hetmanate were an Ottoman vassal. Doesn't matter how much the Ottomans were invested in it.>which made it very easy for the Ottomans to just abandon the Cossacks and leave them to join the MuscovitesThis is false, the never abandoned them, in the whole time frame of the vassalage and in fact protected the Cossacks in the Polish–Ottoman War (1672–76)>Presenting the Cossack Hetmanate as a protectorate, vassal, or sanjak of the Ottoman Empire only exaggerates the level of involvement that Ottoman Empire had with the Ukrainian state.If you read the book and look at the pages sited you will see, again read the book. There needs to be no level of involvement to be an Ottoman vassal, and yet the Ottomans did involved themselves with their vassals based on their needs. Page 143 makes it clear. Please tell me how does 0% involvement makes the Cossack not a a vassal. Also how was there a 0% involvement when the Ottomans did involved themselves to protect their vassals and appoint two people to rule their vassal, the sounds like me TOO MUCH involvement. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 23:05, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are currently engaged in an WP:Edit war on this page, as you revert every single one of my edits. Keep in mind, 3 reverts lead to a block per the WP:3RR. You have also went back to the WP:Personal attacks when you asked me of lying above. This is unacceptable. There is currently a discussion going on about your conduct at WP:ANI. As for the substance of the discussion above, "Which page, please, because the author didn't put a quotation mark in page 146 and page 138." Page 150, which I cited in the infobox. "Who said it was an Ottoman entity??" You did multiple times when you called it a "sanjak". A "sanjak" is "(In the Ottoman Empire) one of the several administrative districts into which a larger district (vilayet) was divided." in the Ottoman Empire (According to the Oxford Dictionary. As for the agreement, I have to tell you again to re-read this sentence: "Doroshenko reportedly consented to these terms, with the exception that 1,000 janissaries be garrisoned only in Kodak." (Page 141). Finally, the Ottomans DID ABANDON THEM after that war. Read this sentence from page 149: "That the Ottomans were not inclined to develop their control in Ukraine and instead left it as it was and went on to fight a probably even more dangerous war for Vienna tells us much about Ottoman goals and policy in the northern Black Sea region." I think these questions are settled.--BoguSlav 03:31, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  > You are currently engaged in an WP:Edit war on this page and you are vandalizing the page by not following the parameters set by the Template:Infobox former country, per the status_text and status>Keep in mind, 3 reverts lead to a block per the WP:3RRYou need to tell yourself that first. Here is my evidence and you clearly started it Diff1, after you vandalized the infobox and removed what Me and Toddy have already established and here is Diff2 another vandalism, the fact it is an equal memeber to any entity and hwo many years it didn;t sign a treaty is not qualified to be on the status_text which applies to the status= protectorate field in the infobox. And your THIRD DIFF3. I'm assuming rules apply to you too.>This is unacceptable.Maybe you can stop reverting and changing my established edits, especially when you never care about the "since 1654" edit, but only about the 1655 and 1699 vassalage, one of those don't even have an edit and you never cared about it, HMMMMMM!!!! What does that mean>As for the substance of the discussion above, "Which page, please, because the author didn't put a quotation mark in page 146 and page 138." Page 150, which I cited in the infobox.You need to cite it again in the talk page since we are discussing the book, and in the same page, the auhtor PREFERS to call the Cossack Hetmanate a vassal>"Who said it was an Ottoman entity??" You did multiple times when you called it a "sanjak". A "sanjak" is "(In the Ottoman Empire) one of the several administrative districts into which a larger district (vilayet) was divided." in the Ottoman Empire (According to the Oxford Dictionary.The Author of the book called it Sanjak. On page 142 "By June 1669 the Porte issued a patent (berat, nişan) granting Doroshenko all of Cossack Ukraine as an Ottoman sancak or province."Your oxford dictionary excuse is not working, many eyalets and sanjcaks in the Ottoman Empire had autonomy.>As for the agreement, I have to tell you again to re-read this sentence: "Doroshenko reportedly consented to these terms, with the exception that 1,000 janissaries be garrisoned only in Kodak." (Page 141).Those were the terms the Ottomans offered 10 August 1668 not the one they agreed on on June 1669. There is a big difference when  an entity offers something and an entity issues patent of the agreement and the agreemnt includes no Ottomans troops in Kodak.>Finally, the Ottomans DID ABANDON THEM after that war.Yes but they never abandon them before the war, and even if they abandon them, they are still a vassal.>Read this sentence from page 149: "That the Ottomans were not inclined to develop their control in Ukraine and instead left it as it was and went on to fight a probably even more dangerous war for Vienna tells us much about Ottoman goals and policy in the northern Black Sea region." I think these questions are settled.Yes it settles the fact the Cossacks are still a vassal even though the Ottomans were busy fighting Vienna and yet protected the Cossacks when they were able to do it like in 1672.    Alexis Ivanov (talk) 03:57, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

text:  I also find it hilarious how there is no reference on the infobox and there is an incorrect timeline of the Muscovite vassalge, "since 1654" is simply wrong. Yurii Khmelnytsky returned to be a Muscovite vassalage in 1659 Pereyaslav Articles after the they had been with Poland in 1658 due to the Treaty of Hadiach Alexis Ivanov (talk) 00:09, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

text: , you need to take it easy with your vassalage argument. Military assistance treaties are not necessary the same as to be a vassal. Moreover there are no evidences of Ukrainian Cossacks fighting for the Ottoman Empire outside of Ukraine. Also, it is totally wrong to place information in the infobox and completely avoiding to disclose it in the article, which totally undermines the article. Also, a vassal state usually cannot conduct own foreign policy, while the Korsun Treaty of 1669 stated that both the Ottoman Empire and the Crimean Khanate cannot conclude any treaties with national entities that are in war with Doroshenko. That certainly does not look like regular vassal to lord obligations. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 07:15, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:   The Cossacks are the subject that lends military assistance towards the suzerain, the same way with the Crimean Khanate, the same way Moldavia, same way with Wallachia, same way with Transylvania, same way with other vassals.>Moreover there are no evidences of Ukrainian Cossacks fighting for the Ottoman Empire outside of Ukraine.That makes no sense. The point is they fought for their overlords as subject who had to lend in military assistance, secondly Cossakcs did fight for Ottoman during the Polish–Ottoman War (1672–76) out side of the Cossack Hetmanate which is smaller than modern Ukraine. For example Lviv belongs to the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth and so is the famous Siege of Kamianets-Podilskyi, that belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Fun fact the Cossacks did enter outside of the Ukranian borders of the 21st century and into the Republic of Poland, that is if you want to know look no further than Krasnobród in 1672.So by the way I proved you wrong right there>Also, it is totally wrong to place information in the infobox and completely avoiding to disclose it in the articleYour friend Boguslave, is doing the job, but as always he gets here and says it is an edit war once I edit out his vandalism.> Also, a vassal state usually cannot conduct own foreign policyyes they can, look no further than Crimean Khanate, Principolaty of Transylvania and Republic of Ragusa>while the Korsun Treaty of 1669 stated that both the Ottoman Empire and the Crimean Khanate cannot conclude any treaties with national entities that are in war with Doroshenko.So which national entity at war did they make treaty with, because this is baffling, in what way does that not make the 1669 treaty a vassalage?? Alexis Ivanov (talk) 07:56, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: , you refuse to listen to me. I told you before that your claim argues at least the fact that there was a protectorate treaty between Muscovy and Cossack Hetmanate. Also it seems that you have no idea about the history of Ukraine. Ivan Vyhovsky at his meeting with Swedes in 1657 was requesting to yield the whole Ancient Ukraine where there was Greek faith and survived Ukrainian language upto Vistula (Outline of History of Ukraine by Natalia Yakovenko in 1997). Therefore the idea of Ukraine existed back then, while the western borders with the Polish Crown were purely conditional and majorly were not recognized by Poles anyway. For example, during the Pereyaslav negotiations between Polish side and Khmelnytsky in 1649 where Halychyna was considered part of Cossack Hetmanate (see the same source). The same sources however points out that the Ottoman sanjaks were sent to hetman in 1653, but it also says that instead of them Khmelnytsky was able to sign protectorate with Muscovy (does not says vassalage). Cossack Hetmanate was not vassal of the Ottomans until Petro Doroshenko who was forced to do so due to the Treaty of Andrusovo. There is no way Muscovites would continue with the union and go to war on Poles if the Cossack Hetmanate became a vassal of the Ottoman Empire. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 12:10, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I listened to you, but you are simply stating wrong and false statements. The blame can't be on me, it's only yours.>I told you before that your claim argues at least the fact that there was a protectorate treaty between Muscovy and Cossack Hetmanate.And yet nobody giving a proper reference to the "since 1654" in the infobox, but you get edit when we put correct and detailed reference for the Ottoman vassalage, I find that interesting.> Also it seems that you have no idea about the history of Ukraine.I have an idea, in what way did you assume that?>Ivan Vyhovsky at his meeting with Swedes in 1657 was requesting to yield the whole Ancient Ukraine where there was Greek faith and survived Ukrainian language upto Vistula (Outline of History of Ukraine by Natalia Yakovenko in 1997). Therefore the idea of Ukraine existed back thenI never said or implied that the idea of Ukraine never existed, so there you go another misinformation about me as usual.>while the western borders with the Polish Crown were purely conditional and majorly were not recognized by Poles anyway. For example, during the Pereyaslav negotiations between Polish side and Khmelnytsky in 1649 where Halychyna was considered part of Cossack Hetmanate (see the same source)My source of Magocsi, Paul Robert.History of Ukraine: The Land and Its Peoples. 2nd ed. Toronto: U of Toronto, 2010. Print. Clearly shows the map of the 1649 and Galicia is not included. So how correct can your source be in that matter Are you implying Lviv was part of the Cossack Hetmamnate even the Wikipedia pages indicate a Polish possession.>The same sources however points out that the Ottoman sanjaks were sent to hetman in 1653, but it also says that instead of them Khmelnytsky was able to sign protectorate with Muscovy (does not says vassalage).Yet Khmelnytsky in 1655 he received an 'ahdname from the Sublime Porte, which showed a "formal vassal status">Cossack Hetmanate was not vassal of the Ottomans until Petro Doroshenko who was forced to do so due to the Treaty of Andrusovo.It was before during Khmelnytsky>There is no way Muscovites would continue with the union and go to war on Poles if the Cossack Hetmanate became a vassal of the Ottoman Empire.Well they did, and how does going to war with  Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1654 affect the vassalage?.Give credit to Khmelnytsky and how intelligent he was before the 1654 treaty he was already in communication with the Ottoman Porte asking to be a slave of the Sultan. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 18:37, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

text: Also, during that time Khmelnytsy was involved in the civil war in Moldavia supporting Vasile Lupu who was not supported by the Ottoman Empire (see Tymofiy Khmelnytsky). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 12:24, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have already seen that before, I have seen his 1652 incursion in Moldavia, and his need for legitimacy by marrying his son towards the Moldavian nobility and maybe in fact be appointed the voievodship of Moldavia himself. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 18:43, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

text: You mean mob rule? The issue has been resolved. Also your tactic is not working, you never gave the Russian protectorate any reference, and your only agenda is to overpopulate the infobox to remove all reference to valid, detailed and well references Ottoman vassalage of the Cossack Hetmanate. I will remind you with WP:IGNORE. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 06:19, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It's only fair to include everything or nothing. There were SO MANY hetmans in the history of the Cossack Hetmanate and ONLY TWO had any formal relationship with the Ottomans, yet you want to give this information front seat on the infobox to make it look like an Ottoman dependency and exclude all of the other agreements. There were so many more treaties where Ukraine swore allegiance to other entities. All or none must be included for sake of historic accuracy.--BoguSlav 06:28, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

text: Also, consensus means "the opinion arrived to by a majority of people involved in the discussion". So no, this is not simple mob rule. Everyone who voiced their opinion gave their reasons for their argument. Your tactic seems to be, if you respond with the most words on the talk page, then you must be most correct.--BoguSlav 06:31, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is a mob rule, when you used previous editors of the article to reach consensus, shunning other editors from doing any improvement of the article who have never been here for long enough. So let me get this straight, if someone else comes in and edits the article and you don't like it you just scream consensus???? after you failed overloading the article, after you failed going to other articles talk pages asking questions, after you failed in the ANI after all that this is your last plan?>Everyone who voiced their opinion gave their reasons for their argument.That is the definition of mob rule, you voiced your opinion that was clearly different than mine and then say consensus. How is that improving and maintaining the article, nobody even cared about putting the Russian protectorate until I came here. It just shows you the mentality. And still the Russian protectorate has no references, since that is part of your end goal, to delete the status_text field. That seems dishonest attempt at vandalizing the page.>Your tactic seems to be, if you respond with the most words on the talk page, then you must be most correct.-That was never my tactic again another misinformation about me, if I use the L word you will go to ANI, did you expect for me to shut up and let you vandalize the page? that makes no sense. Talk page was made to be used with words "A talk page (also known as a discussion page) is a page which editors can use to discuss improvements to an article or other Wikipedia page.", you might want to go back and look at the guidelines. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 06:47, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Also please remove my name from the box you put in my name in, this is more than a status field, this is stopping you vandalizing the page and then saying let's do a consensus. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 06:49, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: But if I edit them out, he will yell edit war, excellent double standard. I will let you have the podium this time Alexis Ivanov (talk) 05:35, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this the reason you removed the referenced information from the infobox about being an equal member of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth? Who is edit warring here? It looks like you are dead set on promoting the image of the Ottoman Empire on Wikipedia, regardless of nuance or alternative definitions. Either we include all Cossack treaties in the status section of the infobox, or none.--BoguSlav 06:08, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  No based on the status_text in the template, you are not allowed to do that, the status field is being occupied by protectorate, hence you have to list the protectorate and references them, but since I put a well referenced statement there, you get angry at the same time push a double standard of not giving the Russian protectorate any references. Not only that you failed to out the tributary state in the Grandy Duchy of Moscow's article. You might want to check Template:Infobox former country, and please stop vandalizing the page, we get it you ant to overload the infobox, with information that is not suppose to be there.>It looks like you are dead set on promoting the image of the Ottoman Empire on WikipediaYes just because I edit Ottoman articles it means I'm promoting, how about the Golden Horde, does that mean I'm promoting them too????? Another false information about me>regardless of nuance or alternative definitionsIt is not "nuance or alternative definitions".>Either we include all Cossack treaties in the status section of the infobox, or noneYeah I see what you are doing, but that is not working, in fact you need to put every Suzerain protecting their protectorate in the infobox and not the treaties, per the Template:Infobox former country. You are going into the vandalism territory. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 06:27, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Your new edits lack cohesion, you might want to step back and cool down and not look like someone who is doing this out of spite Alexis Ivanov (talk) 06:29, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: They are well-referenced from the text. Every one is historically accurate. Go ahead and check. I am happy to answer any of your questions and provide quotes for each one.--BoguSlav 06:35, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I never said they weren't well referenced. Maybe you need to drink some cold water come back and re-read my comment. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 06:39, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

text: Also, please specify which Khmelnytsky in the article. There is a father and a son. Both were hetmans.--BoguSlav 06:37, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Which sentence is giving you the problem, please provide the full quote here so I can fix it for you, if you can't fix it yourself, I would love to do that Alexis Ivanov (talk) 06:39, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

text: I would suggest that it is you who needs to take some time out. You have already shown yourself to be prone to getting hot under the collar very, very quickly. I'm also more than a little concerned as to how well someone knows the subject area if they have to ask 'which Khmelnytsky'. Sincerely, Bohdan's son is barely a fleck of dust in the annals of history. Please calm down. (As an aside, I'm just checking in to find out whether things have been sorted out so, , have the issues been ironed out?) --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:11, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Gawd, I've come in far too late. I've just gone through this 'revamped' version of the article and it reads like an edit war from go to whoa. It's unencyclopaedic, almost illiterate, and every sentence is having a punch-up with its neighbour (not just a bit of a disagreement). I have to get over the migraine it's going to give me, but it is in serious need of a thorough reformatting and copy edit. Doesn't anyone get tired of these unabashed edit wars? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:41, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  More mistakes in the article by ‎Boguslavmandzyuk 

message: ,  , please, note that there is a new article on History of Ukraine created by  and called Ottoman Ukraine. Ottoman Ukraine was a puppet state (vassal state) of the Ottoman Empire in 1669 to 1685 exactly as it is stated at the article on Cossack Hetmanate. After I edited a pointing reference, my edit was reverted with the comment "you are joking" from Alexis Ivanov. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:41, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Playing the victim is a good way to get sympathies from your friend, nice tactic. Ottoman Ukraine is a region controlled by the Ottoman Empire and the Cossack state itself Alexis Ivanov (talk) 00:49, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ottoman Ukraine is a region that corresponds to modern day Ukranian lands that includes, Yedisan and Bujan and Crimean territories. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 01:30, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Have you learnt nothing from your mentoring by ? A) Edit summaries like this are not appropriate, and explain nothing. B) We've come full circle since you first introduced these short periods of agreements to the infobox which was argued to be WP:UNDUE given that the first 'alliance' lasted for the sum total of 2 years, while the second 'alliance' lasted for 16 years. Given that it was, virtually contemporaneously, a protectorate of the Russian Empire, it doesn't even make sense for the reader and was better dealt with in the body of the article. It was a WP:BADIDEA to use the  'status' parameter for a former country infobox in the first place. The fact that at some stage, someone had POV pushed the "Vassal state of the Tsardom of Russia" in did not make it a good idea in the first place: just POV pushing. I'm still of the opinion that it belongs in the body considering that the state was not exactly famous for honouring any of the agreements and were constantly at war with the very empires they'd entered into agreements with until Catherine the Great finally had Sich razed. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 02:02, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  You have to bring up the mentoring because that is your only angle that you can attack me with, as if someone was mentored that means they have become an angel that can commit no mistakes, if you are angry about the edit summary I will gladly edit it, but I don't know how to edit the edit summary and I have mentioned my reasoning here in the talk page and Alexander's talk page, no reason to moan about it, in front of me like that, as If I have committed a grievous mistake. B) Alexander removes my work, and you accuse me of coming to full circle for putting back my work back to it's place. Excellent accusation Iryna. I have done nothing to you but you like doing this again. What alliance are you talking about, you have to be more specific, since I have worked in this article long time ago. Now I have to drop everything and come back here to this discussion Alexis Ivanov (talk) 02:18, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I also like how you compared my work to some random guy adding another vassal state of whatever and didn't bring any references and then you imply I'm POV-pushing, all these accusation have been thrown out of the window, because you and your friends I forgot, but you got many accused me of pushing POV. Do you have a dog in this fight?, are you are accusing me of POV-pushing? Your words are not clear. Hopefully you will make it clearer next time. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 02:32, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious revert 

message: Requesting more input on the following merge proposal ElectroChip123 (talk) 00:17, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC Merge

message: To add to this article: how were the Hetmanate's Jewish inhabitants treated during the period of the Cossack Hetmanate? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 08:36, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: To add to article

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:38, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: please add citations for this to the body, as far as i can tell none of the sources here or in Treaty of Zboriv support that it was a Polish fife—blindlynx 16:57, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiefdom of Poland 

message: the status page in the right shouldn't exist because its not true so will you please remove it? Dan69182 (talk) 14:32, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Tollens (talk) 19:35, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2023 

message: as the treaty of pereyaslav was signed in 1654 to help the cossack
 hetmanate to not fight the commonwealth. on 24 october 1656 russia made a treaty with poland and khmelnytsky said that russia violated the treaty so he broke the treaty of pereyaslav and joined a coalition with Sweden Dan69182 (talk) 09:39, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  the protectorate is wrong 

message: I reverted massive changes that included removal big referenced chunks with unconvincing edit summaries such as "Most of it was wrong so i decided to delete it for the better" and addition of large unreferenced pieces. Please explain your deletions here, in article talk page. - Altenmann >talk 16:36, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  My revert 

message: I invite the people who watch this page to take part in the following discussion:Talk:Cossack with musket#Use of the blue and yellow version--Raimundo57br (talk) 03:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the blue and yellow version