Wikipedia talk:Template index/User talk namespace/Archive 7

message: I just saw that the uw-copyright series was deleted and redirected to . Did I miss something? I have mixed feelings about having a single issue template here. It is a bit harsh for newcommers in my opinion, they don't know they are doing something wrong. (Sorry if I bring a point that has already been discussed, I couldn't find it in the archives :)) -- lucasbfr talk 13:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are two templates,  (or ) and , which were listed here before. More than that however, is inappropriate. If someone continues to upload copyrighted material after two warnings (really after one), they cannot be allowed to continue to do so and it cannot be built into the official sort of system created here that they be given five opportunities, with a warning after each one, to commit illegal actions on Wikipedia. I have now redirected  to  instead; it also happens to be much more explanatory and helpful than the new  which was apparently invented without any reference to already existing templates. —Centrx→talk • 21:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought a bit about it, I will try to make a 2 levels templates, level 1 being AGF (a mix between the previous lv1 and nothanks) and level 4 being basically . What do you think? -- lucasbfr talk 09:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I ripped of the 2 old templates. Here's the result. I propose to use the first one for level 1 and the second one will be level 4. levels 2 and 3 would redirect to level 4. What do you think? -- lucasbfr talk 17:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I changed my mind (I hated the idea of having a 2 lv template) and went bold, recreating a single issue  that I hope will please everyone. -- lucasbfr talk 07:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Personally, I would type a personal message to the user in question, or use the spam templates if the linking is clearly inappropriate, but some people might find such a template useful? -- lucasbfr talk 07:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|uw-copyright1}} --> {{tl|Cv}} ? 

message: I made a new warning template  to tag user talk pages. It has one parameter that is the language code. It will ideally give a warning in the language of the user, but will work with all language codes pointing to the correct WP. It is similar to the family of the contrib-xx1 templates, but can easily be expanded.  Andreas  (T) 00:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow. This is great! We should probably add uw- to the beginning and have this take the place of uw-english. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@  02:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When it is substituted, however, it will result in a mess of superfluous code, although appear fine. I suggest that we clean it up by requiring substitution, or else give an error message. GracenotesT § 04:44, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest to deprecate and bot-replace template:UE and maybe also those like template:contrib-fr1.  Andreas  (T) 17:35, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign language user warning template 

message: Assuming it doesn't already exist in some form, I am going to create this new user message template, , in about a week if there are no objections. (The design happens to be lifted from .)
=== Proper signature use ===
Hello, . I've noticed that you've been adding your signature to some of your article contributions. This is a common mistake for beginners, and it has since (most likely) been corrected. For future reference, the need to associate edits with users is taken care of by an article's edit history. Therefore, you should only (and always) use your signature after contributing to talkpages, the Village Pump, or other discussion pages. (For a better understanding of what distinguishes articles from these, see What is an article?) Thanks for contributing, and enjoy your Wikipedia experience!
\sim Lenoxus " * " 08:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean? \sim Lenoxus " * " 16:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A single template, as opposed to an escalating series of templates. Natalie 16:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think if they continue to do it the standard vandalism or test templates would suffice.Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 22:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, after someone's gotten this warning and continues doing it, that would make sense. In answer to your question: Yes, it is certainly one-shot (at first I thought maybe you meant that I only intended to use it once, which wouldn't make sense). However, something like this should still be used for this specific issue the first time it is recognized, but if they continue to disregard this rule, a new level has obviously been reached. \sim Lenoxus " * " 01:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What about a user who never signs their posts and refuses to? I got into this with User:Wrestlinglover420. He never signs his posts on talk pages and basically told me he's not gonna if he doesn't want to. TJ Spyke 00:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:   To return to : It is really needed! Has something happened to the proposal, or is there somewhere else you need support so you can create it? Is someone fighting over the words to use?  Greswik 21:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nope! I'd just let it slip my mind... so here goes! Link: . Oh, and in answer to  TJ Spyke: that template is , and at least one bot, HagermanBot, thankfully does this when it can (not that it's perfect, of course, so go ahead if the template is needed). In fact, seeing such a message on another user's talkpage was what reminded me of this! \sim Lenoxus " * " 21:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Great! But, what is that  - thing? I had to fix it after using it. Was that just me, could you make a simple example? Greswik 15:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have taken the liberty to try to improve it. It seems to not be in very much use yet. Greswik 19:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New template proposal: Articlesig 

message: Hello, . I've noticed that you've been adding your signature to some of your article contributions. This is a common mistake for beginners, and it has since (most likely) been corrected. For future reference, the need to associate edits with users is taken care of by an article's edit history. Therefore, you should only (and always) use your signature after contributing to talkpages, the Village Pump, or other discussion pages. (For a better understanding of what distinguishes articles from these, see What is an article?) Thanks for contributing, and enjoy your Wikipedia experience!
\sim Lenoxus " * " 08:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean? \sim Lenoxus " * " 16:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A single template, as opposed to an escalating series of templates. Natalie 16:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think if they continue to do it the standard vandalism or test templates would suffice.Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 22:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, after someone's gotten this warning and continues doing it, that would make sense. In answer to your question: Yes, it is certainly one-shot (at first I thought maybe you meant that I only intended to use it once, which wouldn't make sense). However, something like this should still be used for this specific issue the first time it is recognized, but if they continue to disregard this rule, a new level has obviously been reached. \sim Lenoxus " * " 01:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What about a user who never signs their posts and refuses to? I got into this with User:Wrestlinglover420. He never signs his posts on talk pages and basically told me he's not gonna if he doesn't want to. TJ Spyke 00:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:   To return to : It is really needed! Has something happened to the proposal, or is there somewhere else you need support so you can create it? Is someone fighting over the words to use?  Greswik 21:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nope! I'd just let it slip my mind... so here goes! Link: . Oh, and in answer to  TJ Spyke: that template is , and at least one bot, HagermanBot, thankfully does this when it can (not that it's perfect, of course, so go ahead if the template is needed). In fact, seeing such a message on another user's talkpage was what reminded me of this! \sim Lenoxus " * " 21:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Great! But, what is that  - thing? I had to fix it after using it. Was that just me, could you make a simple example? Greswik 15:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have taken the liberty to try to improve it. It seems to not be in very much use yet. Greswik 19:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proper signature use 

message: If you aren't an admin, like most people here, do these threats carry no weight?W1k13rh3nry 12:46, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, after level 4 on another incident, you report them for an admin to look into the matter. This is often done on WP:AIV. See also WP:AN. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 12:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not all the warnings threaten things, or mention admin-only tools. A lot of them are boilerplate reminders of various policies, like copyright infringement, signing posts, and using edit summaries. In that respect, templates save the work of thinking of and typing out a whole message yourself, and include links to relevant pages. With the warning series' that escalate to a final warning, most admins like to see that a user has received a level 3 or 4 warning (from any other user) before blocking, because it ensures that the person is aware of the rules and consequences. Natalie 15:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: Currently, most user warnings in this project make use of  with an optional |subst=subst:}} parameter that simplifies the output of the template when placed on a user talk page. However, this extra parameter is often excluded, and when used, requires some extra typing and doesn't work without an article parameter due to a bug. Perhaps we could use the much easier subst: trick to simplify the output? The includeonly trick uses no additional parameters, is used automatically every time, and also avoids the bug, allowing it to be used even without an article parameter. I think we should switch all the user warnings under this project to use this format, but I'd like to see if people support this first, since it would affect so many templates. Pyrospirit Flames Fire 02:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As much as I'd love to implement this, there is no way that everyone is going to subst user messages (I know, believe me), and if someone doesn't subst a message in the above format, then it will result is a sticky mess of code that will undoubtedly confuse an vandal, or cause said vandal to laugh at Wikipedia's unintentional bad coding, etc. GracenotesT § 14:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, so it won't work if you don't subst, then? In that case, it would remind them to subst the message when they see the messed up code, so it'll serve two purposes! Pyrospirit Flames Fire 02:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it would mean that people check the output of the template after putting it. And that's probably not going to happen this century :D That kind of warning is useful on db-reason and afd, because a badly formed speedy deletion or AfD is enough to have the request bumped, but on a user warning, it will just confuse the user receiving the warning even more. -- lucasbfr talk 06:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  <code><nowiki><includeonly>subst:</includeonly></nowiki></code> instead of <code>subst=subst:</code>? 

message: I have gotten into the habit of adding a parameter for welcome and anon (even though it is ignored) so that I can tell what article caught my eye.  Perhaps the argument (if present) could be included in the message.  For example, "Thank you for your contributions, such as your edit to ".
Any thoughts? wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 00:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume from the deafening silence that I'm the only one who thinks this is a good idea? ;^) wrp103 (Bill Pringle)  (Talk) 01:44, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I'll bite.  I think its a fine idea.  If the parameter is optional then there's no harm to those who choose not to use it.  So, go for it.--Kubigula (talk) 02:02, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Argument for welcome and anon 

message: Template:uw-spam1 contains the following erroneous statement: Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. This sentence always bothered me because it's factually incorrect or misleading:
*The presence of "nofollow" tags in the article's HTML header is irrelevant. Even without nofollow tags, most spiders are smart enough to avoid following links that lead away from the site being crawled. The point of nofollow tags is more to prevent spiders from indexing specific pages stored on the same web site that it's crawling.
*It may not matter that external links "do not alter search engine rankings" because an external link in a Wikipedia article will drive more traffic to that external link! Wikipedia articles come up near the top of many searches, and people who read such an article will see the external links, and some fraction of those will click on those links.
I don't see the sentence as something that would sound convincing to a linkspammer. -Amatulic 19:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not exactly, Google and most search engines rank websites according to their popularity. Wikipedia being very popular, an outgoing link from there affected search results. The nofollow tag allows us to say that the link should be ignored. For the second statement, that's why we fight spam on WP ;). -- lucasbfr talk 10:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:uw-spam1]] "nofollow tags" statement 

message: What does "im" mean? --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 18:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Immediate - last/only warning. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 18:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  4-im 

message: It seems we have a lonely template. I think a TFD is in order, since uw-spam basically covers it, and the other levels don't exist. Either that or make into a single use. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 23:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Either that or redirect. —METS501 (talk) 23:54, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  uw-advert1 

message: Do we really need a 4im for redirecting? I think that's a bit harsh. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 14:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Uw-redirect4im 

message: I don't have time now, but when someone does, please update Template:Singlenotice/inner. Thanks! --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 16:30, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Singlenotice/inner 

message: Would anyone object to the creation of uw-blp1 - uw-blp4 as redirects to the uw-biog series? At least for me, BLP (as the policy abbrev) is much easier to remember. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 03:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems fine. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 13:01, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I think it's a good idea.  I've finally adjusted to "biog", but I had the same urge to type blp as the warning name.--Kubigula (talk) 13:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  uw-biog redirects 

message: I wasn't sure if it was needed, but I created one for myself anyway!  It looks something like 
Reported to Admin
You have been reported to admin due to your repeated vandalism.  An administrator will review your edits and decide whether you should be blocked.
 Any advice on whether I should leave it in my userspace, or move it to a proper template so others can find and use it more easily?  As at the moment you have to type in  in order to get it to work.   Is there another one already made? (Knowing my luck there will be, and I will have wasted 10 minutes making it!)  Thanks in advance for any advice, Asics talk Editor review! 17:07, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fwarn isn't "uw-certified", but it's available. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 17:30, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fwarn is great, I wish it was "uw-certified."  It's documentation needs help though. Not much, just a little.  Okay, I'll do it. --Yksin 22:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would you call it by that name? I didn't mean that as a name, I meant that as the template wasn't "approved" with the new template system. It's an old template. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 23:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was merely repeating your usage. In any case, whether "approved" within the new template system or not, Template:Non-admin fwarn is a very useful template, if used appropriately. I've put together a bit of documentation to help in that direction, that (as a fairly recent vandalism-fighter) I had to learn by trial & error. -- Yksin 23:32, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen this template used occasionally when on bouts of vandalfighting and I must say that I am not entirely convinced by its usefulness. After all, it basically tells them that they are about to be blocked and there is nothing they can do about it. The Fwarn template states on it You may not receive another warning before being blocked, so be careful and be serious from now on. However, if someone has submitted them correctly to WP:AIV and they have vandalised after a final warning, no matter how "careful and serious" they are, they are going to be blocked. In my humble opinion, all this template might do is, in some cases, encourage a last scurry of vandalism in the knowledge they are going to be imminently blocked anyway. I invite people to disagree with me and persuade me that this template is useful, but from my experience of witnessing its use I don't entirely feel that way. Will (aka Wimt) 02:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The biggest reason I find it useful is because it indicates to the user that s/he has actually been reported.  I frequently come across talk pages that have a large collection of "this is your final warning, next time you will be blocked" all in a row, with no indication that they've ever been reported.  If I was engaged in vandalism, I'd just think, "they always say they're gonna do something to me but they never do." [[Template:Non-admin fwarn] lets them know: yes, something has been done. Almost as important, it lets other editors dealing with the same user's vandalism know that a report has been made -- especially if it's the same day with a particularly active vandal -- and adds to the general record of how serious a particular user's vandalism has been.  Note that sometimes admins at WP:AIV do not block a reported user -- usually because of time passage since the last prior vandalism -- so I've added to the documentation to hopefully better align its usage with WP:AIV practice. I agree perhaps the language in the template itself could be improved. --Yksin 16:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm gonna agree with Will in saying that I'm not entirely convinced of its usefulness. Someone who is an obvious vandal will get blocked without needing yet another message on their talk page. As for seeing whether they've been reported or not... I also fail to see the use in that. You can see from their block log (viewable by anyone) whether they've been blocked or not, and whether they've been reported doesn't have much bearing on anything (in my opinion, though I'm a lot more heavy-handed towards vandals than some other people are). If they're a vandal IP, block and move on. If they're a vandal account and they've been warned before, indefinitely block them and move on (regardless of time spent between warnings). EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So in summary: you & I see the issues differently, & therefore choose differently. I can live with that. --Yksin 17:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I would dislike deleting a template that people find useful, but I have to agree with the above point.  Once someone has been reported to AIV, there are only two outcomes - either they get blocked, in which case there's not much point in telling them to reconsider their behavior (and the same message should presumably come from the blocking admin anyway), or they don't get blocked, in which case they either assume the reviewing admin thinks their vandalism was that bad or they learn to guage how much they can get away with without being blocked.--Kubigula (talk) 02:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would dislike deleting it against consensus. Perhaps it's worth taking the question up at WP:TFD? — coelacan — 04:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The rough consensus above appears to support deletion, so I think consideration by a wider audience at TfD is probably appropriate.--Kubigula (talk) 03:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template to say a user has been reported 

message: Tuxide makes a good point in the TFD; 3RR reports are sometimes validly contested. A template that lets a person know they've been reported for 3RR can be a good idea, if it points to WP:AN3. Without regard for keeping these generic fwarn templates, would a separate  template be a good idea? — coelacan — 05:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: how about a [[WP:AN3]]-specific version?

message: Template: has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Kubigula (talk) 03:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD nomination of Template:{{ucfirst:Non-admin fwarn}} 

message: As you know, the years tend to be common targets for anons who want to add themselves to Wikipedia.  While I could use ,  or , I feel that these may be a little too generic.  Are there any suggestions? --Sigma 7 02:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say the uw-vandalism series. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 19:04, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Calander additions 

message: Didn't we have a template for talking in articles? I can't seem to find it. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 20:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The appropriately named .  It's not a uw warning, but I still use it from time to time.--Kubigula (talk) 20:28, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talking in article 

message: I seem to recall a uw template (albeit before the uw standardization) regarding adding personal commentary & original research?  Something different from NPOV and cite tags... Am I overlooking it?  /Blaxthos 06:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal commentary & analysis 

message: I was wondering whether there is an appropriate warning out there for telling people not to add their own birthdays to date articles. When looking over recent changes, I have noticed that this occurs very regularly. I had been giving them  but I feel it doesn't really convey what they are doing and why it is being reverted. I have attempted to make my own template for this purpose at User:Wimt/nn-birthday but I wondered whether any similar templates already existed and, if not, whether anyone else agrees with me that it would be a useful message to give out. Will (aka Wimt) 02:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That seem a little specific. I would suggest using the uw-test templates with the third parameter, which allows you to add specific information. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 02:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been using test1 for this. If someone does make a specific warning, I would suggest broadening it to adding any nonnotable thing to a date article. People add BS events, deaths, and other crap pretty regularly, as well as adding Jesus to the list of births on December 25. Natalie 02:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah that's very true it could easily be broadened to any non-notable date addition. I do take your point TeckWiz that it is quite specific and I could use the third parameter of the test templates, but given how often I have been reverting this recently, I personally think that it may justify its own template. Regards. Will (aka Wimt) 02:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said, it's a little too specific. Feel free to use yours though. It looks good. You may also want to move it to the template namespace, but I wouldn't classify it as uw- warning. What about Template:Datewarning ? --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 03:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh yeah I have no great wish to make it a uw- warning. Template:Datewarning sounds a good idea to me. I'll move it there when I've reworded it a bit to make it suitable for any date addition. Thanks for your help. Will (aka Wimt) 09:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthdays 

message: I can't figure out how the "blatant vandal" warning is supposed to be used.  Based on the "assume good faith" policy, you're not supposed to accuse someone of vandalism unless it's, well, blatant.  So, when should the templates uw-vandalism1, 2, etc. be used, and when should uw-bv be used? CalebNoble 05:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, whats the difference between uw-bv and uw-vandalism4im ? --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 21:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I use bv when it's not quite so extreme as to justify an immediate "This is your only warning", but still extreme enough that first and second-level warnings aren't enough. Essentially, I think of it as an immediate third-level warning (remember, level 3 likewise assumes bad faith) that gives a bit more context than just starting immediately with "Please stop". Heimstern Läufer 21:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I agree - although I don't really use uw-bv myself, I tend to consider it to be at the same level as uw-vandalism3 when giving further warnings. It is generally used as the first warning given to someone in cases of rather serious and/or fast vandalism. Uw-vandalism4im on the other hand I tend to use on editors who have got a last warning within the previous 24 hours or so to let them know they are still on their absolute last warning. It can also be used as a first and only warning in cases of extremely serious vandalism. Will (aka Wimt) 21:59, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've assumed that a garden variety vandal makes an article worse, but it's not completely clear they know the effect of what they're doing.  A blatant vandal is one who knows they're making it worse.  The former adds cutesy sayings, uncited libelous facts, or changes numbers to plausible values, etc.  The latter inserts profanity, character assassinations, non-plausible numbers, etc.  —EncMstr 22:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: [edit conflict] The complexity of the vandalism should be taken into account as well. Someone who adds a picture of a penis to a Pokémon page or is modifying templates, for example, is of a totally different type than someone just adding "omg hi" to the day's FA. EVula // talk // ☯ // 22:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  When to use "blatant vandal" warning (uw-bv)? 

message: I don't know templates currently cite ATT instead of Verifiability, but they need to be changed back to Verifiability as ATT is not currently policy, but proposed policy.  Miss Mondegreen | Talk   08:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there any? If I am correct, they are all citing WP:V. -- lucasbfr talk 09:31, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just changed a set last night--I think the big thing is all of the non talk page templates which haven't all been changed back. I'm working on requesting those now.  But I have no idea about the rest of these.  I did the citing sources set last night but the others?  Miss Mondegreen | Talk   03:02, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Att no longer policy 

message: Unless I couldn't find it, we need a UWT assuming good faith to tell people to use the talk page rather than the article space for talk.  To warn User talk:168.169.110.137 I had to modify another template.  --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 17:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: is good for this situation.  We should probably go ahead and add it to the project.--Kubigula (talk) 17:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What about ? -- lucasbfr talk 11:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Chat1 is currently geared to the situation where someone posts off-topic or inappropriate comments to an article talk page.  Talkinarticle is designed for warning those who put talk comments in the actual article space.  We could tweak Chat1 to cover the talk in article situation, but (although I generally think we are starting to get too many UWs) I think this is worth a specific one-off warning.  I see this situation come up a fair bit, and Artic.gnome's question is at least the third time someone has asked about this template.--Kubigula (talk) 14:03, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, my bad, I misread :). -- lucasbfr talk 14:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  using article space as a forum 

message: We apparently have a new template for people vandalising pages with things like "[person] is gay". --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 11:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no opinion on this template existence (even if personally I wouldn't use it, vandalism is vandalism. But we have , so...), but this template is a copy paste of . It could be replaced by
to keep it consistent with the uw-v3 formatting. -- lucasbfr talk 14:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (edit conflict - I have pretty much the same reaction as Lucas)  I know there are folks who do LGBT RC patrol, and I personally don't begrudge them a specific warning template.  However, I don't think we should add this to the main UTM page.  We already have  and I think you could make an argument for a specific template for every way in which a comment can be offensive - race, sexual preference, religion, national origin etc.  Personally, I think the vandalism warnings are adequate for addressing these situations.  However, if people want something more specific, I suggest we create one warning, perhaps , that warns people not to make offensive comments regarding race, sexual preference or religion.--Kubigula (talk) 14:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{t1|uw-vandalism-lgbt}} 

message: Is there a new-style template to replace the old   (Template:Anon vandal - 2 words, not Template:anonvandal 1 word... I see the problem, so is there a new name for the first one? Tvoz |talk 18:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  anon vandal 

message: User:Magnus animum, changed the block images from :Image:Stop x nuvola.svg to :Image:Modern clock chris kemps 01 with Octagon-warning.svg see here. There was no mention of it here, and not all the warnings were done (I've done the missing one). 
I'd prefer that most changes came through here like the ones done by User:98E to the lvl4 images (which I reverted) but the block images changes do not seem out of line with some of the blocks that were in place before. Anyone think otherwise? Ta Khukri 14:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Was it your intention for the image links above to go to the IM dab page?  --Kralizec! (talk) 14:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only problem with that icon is that it isn't protected and it is on Commons. That means that if someone on commons replaces the icon with something else everything here would also be affected. The other thing I don't like which is more minor but still an annoyance is that the icon doesn't seem to match the nuvola or modern look now being used in the uw-template series. -- Hdt83  Chat 23:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I fixed your wikilinks, Khukri. I agree that there is a look'n feel problem with the new image. -- lucasbfr talk 15:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I updated the images with the one on the left for all the temp. blocks so the X now matches. -- Hdt83  Chat 22:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Block images and icons changes in general. 

message: I have to say that I'm not quite happy with  (and it's partly my own fault).  The template tries to address situations where someone has vandalized repeatedly or just once, and the resulting language doesn't flow very well.  I mean the "one or more of your edits, such as the one you made to..." part.  My thought is to steal the language from V2 and change V1 to the following (options included):
:Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute to our encyclopedia, but please do not make unhelpful and unconstructive edits, as you did to Article.  Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia and feel free to use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make. Thank you.
Of course, this means that V2 would also need to be changed so that the two warnings are not redundantly similar.  My proposed language for V2 is as follows:
:Adding unhelpful and non-constructive content to Wikipedia, as you did to Article, is considered vandalism and is reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.
This would be a pretty big change, so I ask for comments, objections or suggestions.  For all I know, it could just be me that doesn't particularly like the current V1.--Kubigula (talk) 02:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As level 1 warnings assume good faith, we should emphasize "considered unhelpful and unconstructive" in V1. If we are assuming good faith, we must assume they had good intentions but are unaware of policy. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 03:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point.  How about, "..., but please do not make edits that are considered unhelpful or unconstructive, as you did to Article."?  --Kubigula (talk) 03:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing V1 and V2 

message: Per discussion here, there seems to be a mismatch between the tone of the  tag and the purpose WP:WARN holds it out for (viz., reprimanding a user for a "Long term pattern of abuse"). A user had racked up a clear record of abusing the minor edit tag, but this abuse didn't amount to vandalism. Because we have a tag for such a "Long term pattern of abuse" I used this, and received complaints that this was needlessly inflammatory, because the template's language seems aimed at vandals, not serial abusers. In my view, "long term pattern of abuse" and "long term pattern of vandalism" are plainly distinct, and merit different templates. I propose there should either be separate tags for a long-term pattern of abuse (which is what we have here) and a long-term pattern of vandalism, or in the alternative, the language of the  template should be changed to be more appropriate to the behavior WP:WARN holds it out as a sanction for.Simon Dodd 15:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your problem is in the semantics of the word "abuse". It doesn't mean what you think it means. This template is fine for the purpose it's meant for, warning users who behave abusively. The guy you were using it on wasn't "abusing" anything. He was maybe misusing it (arguably, in some instances, not even in most). "Abusive" behaviour is harmful behaviour that is committed in a reckless or intentional way. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Notwithstanding Fut.Perf's comment, given discussion at WP:AN, I have made changes to WP:WARN and surrounding materials to fix the problems that led to this situation. To begin with, because abuse and vandalism are clearly separate concepts and because  clearly addresses the latter, I have relabeled it here at WP:WARN to reflect its actual purpose. I have also created a new template, , to fill the gap left by relabelling . Lastly, I have proposed a new policy, Wikipedia:Abuse that I hope will be used to arrive at a community consensus of what "abuse" means as WP:WARN and other policies comprehend that term.Simon Dodd 13:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The template was listed for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 April 25. -- lucasbfr talk 15:13, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And in further demonstration of Fut.Perf's bad faith in so doing, he made no note of that here or on my talk page. A true class act.Simon Dodd 15:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How does one propose a new template? 

message: A new section of WP:BLOCK, added in this edit, permits blocks afterr warnings of accouts that "exist for the sole or primary purpose of promoting a person, company, product, or service". It seems to me that a proper set of warning tempaltes should be crezted for this, and included in Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace. Does anyone object or have any suggestions? DES (talk) 15:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh.. and the rest of the series exist.. Never mind. Yes, they should be created. Also, since it's no in the blocking policy, we should make uw-adblock (ablock already exists). --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@(Let's go Yankees!) 20:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I created the series. Please review it if you have the time! GracenotesT § 15:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like these, but could some or all of the also link to WP:SPAM since that is the basic guideline on what is improper advertising. DES (talk) 07:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm. We really should have named the template that is , . I tried to avoid linking to WP:SPAM, thinking that it was covered by the  series. Given that, we still want to add that link somehow? GracenotesT § 18:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would think so, yes.  is really , and this one couuld perhaps be called , (and 2 and 3...) but I don't find the names a major problem. DES (talk) 19:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm. I was looking for something to link from WP:SPAM, but Wikipedia:Spam#Advertisements masquerading as articles seems to be rather scanty (and really, the only half-applicable section). 16:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertising warnings 

message: This word is misused here.  It is very difficult to actually abuse a person over the internet.  See here
Instead of "long-term pattern of abuse", which might be offensive to people who have suffered actual abuse, we should say "long-term pattern of severe disruption", or some other different wording.
Thanks,
Armed Blowfish (mail) 18:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can certainly agree with that, although it looks like it's going to be a moot point - someone's nominated the template for deletion.Simon Dodd 19:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Disruption would be better wording if such a template were actually helpful. However, Armedblowfish, despite sharing your concern for the victims of abuse, reading a dictionary entry for "abuse" suggests that your restriction of the use of a  word which has long had a wide range of meanings to the social context of the extremely serious things you refer to is itself an abuse of the English language. The things you describe are terrible, but that does not mean they should take over a perfectly good English word. JPD (talk) 11:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of the word "abuse" 

message: I am going to chnage the image. The non-shiny one looks better. --98E 21:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. Please wait for evidence of a wider consensus before changing it again. Thanks. --Guinnog 21:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I have also reverted. I don't believe that there is any consensus to return to the older icons at the moment. By all means start a discussion but don't just make changes based upon your personal preference. Will (aka Wimt) 22:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For what it's worth, I like the "shiny" version.--Kubigula (talk) 22:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Me too as a matter of fact, but I welcome discussion from those who disagree! Will (aka Wimt) 22:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|uw-block3}} 

message: Why isn't there one? --Selket Talk 22:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been ignored for a a couple weeks by the looks of it. I will make one. Funpika 11:50, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  uw-create4im 

message: Is there any particular reason why the uw-vandalism templates are formatted as HTML tables? The formatting causes the signature to move down a line or two, which makes things rather awkward. For example: 
 Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did at :Article, you may be blocked from editing.  Hersfold (talk/work) 02:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not a technical guy, but I think it's a result of this conversation.--Kubigula (talk) 03:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. It looks as though the template has been fixed anyway, and that discussion makes it sound as though I wasn't the only one having this problem. Thanks. Hersfold (talk/work) 02:40, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A discussion is going on at WT:UW#Numbered_list_in_layout_not_working on whether use tables or not, both camps have good arguments (numbered lists are broken at the moment). You might want to drop by. -- lucasbfr talk 06:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Table templates 

message: Sorry everyone, for some reason this page was knocked off my watch list, so I haven't kept an eye on any template questions or problems from here recently. Anyway it's back on my watch list so any grumbles, moans about why X, or Y isn't working I'll be able to deftly ignore them ;) Khukri 07:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apologies 

message: Could we add a line in the table to include levels of warning for anonymous IP vandals? HokieRNB 13:09, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can use the same warnings for both users and IPs. --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@(Let's go Yankees!) 00:17, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anon vandalism warning 

message: For the Uw-4 templates, I think we should change last warning to final warning, and use this image: , instead of this one: . - Super48 18:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not it's  this one, personally the stop looks a bit bland, but depends what other think. Khukri 18:26, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But some "old style" ones use . - Super48 18:28, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The old style ones do yes but the uw series doesn't. For the old warnings I'm not worried. Khukri 18:35, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the one that says "Stop" is good. Also, if someone's vandalising in another language, they'll recognize a hand, not an English word. --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@(Let's go Yankees!) 18:41, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But this is English Wikipedia. If someone speaks a different language, they wouldn't come here. - Super48 14:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many people do come here for whom English is not their first language. DES (talk) 14:47, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The only problem with the stop sign, I think, is that it's American. Do they have ones that look like that in Britain? GracenotesT § 15:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We do have stop signs that look like that in the UK actually, although they aren't as widely used as the give way sign. Nevertheless, I still prefer the hand myself as I think it looks nicer. Will (aka Wimt) 15:55, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: We have them in France, but that's a side issue. The hand template, be it in spangly nuvola or plain, has become a sort of norm throughout Wikipedia, not just amongst warning templates but in all sorts of places. I think tradition has to pay a part in any decision to change, and I'm not up for change for changes sake, and would need a more concrete rationale at the moment. Cheers Khukri 09:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion 

message: The uw-error and uw-test series should escalate to uw-vandalism4, but the template documentation links to uw-4 instead.  This redirects to the correct template, but still I think it lacks in clarity.
I suppose this must be fixed in Template:Templatesnotice/inner, but I can't figure out how and I'm hesitant to just try it out.  Could someone who's a bit more experienced take a look at it? Oliphaunt 10:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's Gracenote's baby, I'll leave a message on his talk. Cheers Khukri 10:23, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking at the code, it is supposed to do so (and I think it did at some point). There must be a glitch somewhere... -- lucasbfr talk 14:39, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I got it working, but as lucasbfr said, it was technically supposed to work as it was... GracenotesT § 15:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I'll look into a bit more, anyway. And do we want "uw-vandalism" or "uw-v" as the default escalation series? Hm... it seems like lucas took basically the same approach that I did. GracenotesT § 15:31, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In short yep everything like error should finish as v4 IMHO. Khukri 20:23, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to save space, right? GracenotesT § 22:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry you've lost me? Not about saving space, when we started it was about when you get to level 4 with these types of warnings, it was about stating that these type of edits in the are end considered vandalism pure n simple. Khukri 07:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think what Gracenotes meant to ask was whether we should link to Template:uw-v4 or Template:uw-vandalism4 (or others in the uw-vandalism series); the former is a shortcut for the latter.  I first thought uw-v was OK, but since space is not an issue really, and for clarity, shall we link to uw-vandalism? Oliphaunt 09:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah-ha, yea I agree I think linking to the actual template is preferable than linking to the redirect. Sorry didn't understand. Cheers Khukri 09:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Escalation of uw-error and uw-test series (and others) 

message: I'm not sure if this template would work with the project. It's telling people not to bite newcomers. That presumably means it's being giving to experienced users. Experienced users shouldn't be templated. So this template probably shouldn't exist. It's short enough to be typed anyway. --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 00:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have requested speedy deletion for that template, despite the fact that DTTR is only an essay and not a policy/guidline. Also, I have seen shorter single use templates (uw-editsummary is one). Funpika 01:04, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Well there are plenty of intermediate users who are somewhere between rookie newcomers and experienced and established editors, who have not yet read all the policies, such as not biting the newcomers or whatever, but have still posted plenty of wiki-edits.  Then there are the vast numbers of anonymous unregistered IP users, which might be shared at a school or library, and who have a much higher probability of going astray from the rules.  Discretion should always be used in applying official warning templates, which are simply meant to make a slightly more visual, official-looking impact.  Experienced editors should be counselled on the basis of reasoning, with friendly helpful links to the rule(s) in question, and sans-template; while newbies and anonymous shared IP editors may actually respond a bit more appropriately to an official-looking template warning.  A simple friendly note from some other wiki-editor may not seem very "official" to a newcomer, and therefore might be judged as not particularly valid.  A rule of thumb might be: if the offending editor knows what a warning template is and how to make one, then he/she should not be warned with a template.  Many of our newcomers are highly experienced in posting on forums, myspace, facebook, and blog pages; which are not always noted for civility.  Sometimes takes a little while for them to adapt to the unfamiliar territory of wiki-civility and consensus, and it may take some time and counselling to get them to come around.  "Our job" is to help them.  --T-dot (Talk | contribs) 01:04, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid I have to agree with T-dot - just because the template is there doesn't mean it's going to be used on regulars. The template could be issued to a relative newbie, an IP user that does come fairly frequently but hasn't made an account, or possibly a regular who has been treating newcomers particularly nastily lately. Just because they're a regular does not mean that they're perfect - that's why WP:DTTR is an essay and not a guideline. If someone is willing to go to WP:UTM and find the template they should use to warn a member not to bite newbies, then they probably can be trusted to know when is a good time to use a template. You're welcome to put it up for deletion, of course, but I really don't think there's any reason to delete the template, unless it's clear that it is being abused. Hersfold (talk/work) 01:54, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You recreated it? Interesting. I was about to do so after reading the comment and I noticed it was there. :P Funpika 20:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I will agree in principle that WP:DTTR applies, I feel that each situation should be determined on its own merits.  As an example, when I see an editor revert vandalism/tests/etc. without issuing a warning, I almost always leave the reverter a  and issue the appropriate warning to the revertee myself.  Too often I have seen a vandal get away with a dozen extra edits before being blocked because people were too lazy to issue warnings when they reverted.  However, as always, YMMV.  --Kralizec! (talk) 21:03, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Uw-bite 

message: Should it be mandatory to suggest a template on this talk page before making it/adding it to the list? We don't templates whose syntax is messed up, or ones that don't serve a good purpose. I don't mean making it bureaucratic with an approval group or anything, just having 1 or 2 users' imput on the suggestion before making it.  --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 00:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I couldn't agree more with you. I also don't want it to turn into a bureaucracy but I've lost track of the amount of times I've had to ask editors (nicely) not to do partial edits to some of the system. There's enough people now with this page in their watchlist that even if someone has to wait 24 hours, it's better than putting new templates straight into circulation. I see this morning that User:AAA! has put all of the redirect templates up for db, and has created a single issue. I'm not entirely sure about this and am going to put a hangon on all the templates will discuss below. Khukri 07:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion before inclusion 

message: As I said above User:AAA! has put all of the uw-redirect series up for speedy and has created . Overall I'm not worried except the new template doesn't have any leeway for AGF, and the first two levels of the existing system can be used for people who put redirects into place but might not be pure out n out vandalism but could just be a balls up. Anyone think otherwise or is a single suffice? Khukri 07:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirect templates

message: What's the warning for blanking talk pages? Template:Uw-delete2 can't be used because it it for articles. --Sbluen 03:02, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The TPV (talk page violation) series is designed for this - ,  etc.--Kubigula (talk) 03:25, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text: will work fine. --Sigma 7 03:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. Thanks. --Sbluen 03:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blanking talk pages 

message: IOW, a template to point the user at Wikipedia:External links#Restrictions on linking and Wikipedia:Copyrights#Linking to copyrighted works. This could be helpful for warning users who add links to television shows on YouTube, links to sites distributing video game ROM images, and the like. I've put together a rough draft based on uw-copyright in my user space at User:Anomie/uw-link-copyright; I'll watch here for comments. Thank you. Anomie 19:40, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that is a great idea, and have recently had several situations where I could have used the template myself.  Maybe I'm not looking at it correctly, but it looks like your template doesn't point to the first link you list above. wrp103 (Bill Pringle)  (Talk) 21:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Both links reflect the same underlying policy. I could only work in the one, if you or someone else has a good way to include both feel free to edit it. Anomie 23:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My personal suggestion is to make it a tad less grave. Linking to copyrighted material is not as bad as inserting it. Don't want to make a WP:ADIEU situation either... GracenotesT § 05:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably the one line I copied from uw-copyright instead of Wikipedia:External links#Restrictions on linking, but I can't seem to find a way to reword it to be less grave without sounding too lenient. Do you have any suggestions? Or maybe it should be a series, to cover both good-faith edits and persistent violators? Anomie 14:27, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok, I've created series versions so good faith can be assumed (or not assumed) as necessary: 1, 2, 3. Are these preferable to the one-size-fits-all version? Anomie 22:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I think a single template would be better than 3, just like we do for copyright. --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 23:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have suggestions for User:Anomie/uw-link-copyright? The motivation for the series version was Gracenotes's concerns just above, and the difficulty I had with balancing WP:AGF and WP:BITE with the seriousness expressed in Wikipedia:External links#Restrictions on linking and Wikipedia:Copyrights#Linking to copyrighted works in one template. Anomie 01:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Change stop hand to triangle with exclamation point. Unbold "will" be blocked. --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 01:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. Anomie 03:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I made a small change in the wikilinking (feel free to revert if you don't like it).  Otherwise, I would say it's good to go.  Nice job.--Kubigula (talk) 21:07, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I like the edit. What's the next step? Anomie 00:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Move it to Wikipedia space as a template.  The shortest useful name would be best; I'm thinking either  or .  It should then be added to the WP:UTM page, probably under the existing copyright warning, using the same formatting as the others.  Then, I think it should also be added to Wikipedia:WikiProject user warnings/Overview.  I believe that's it - I invite others to jump in if I am missing something.  Let me know if you need help with these.--Kubigula (talk) 04:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I went ahead and did it using . I also added it to the documentation template Template:Singlenotice/inner and to Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace/Single level details. Anomie 16:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You missed WP:UTM itself ;) don't worry it's done. On that note I've spent a little while making sure that temaplates are listed in all the correct places. I think I'll add a section to the FAQ this evening about where templates should go. Khukri 14:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No I didn't but I put it just under . If that's not a good place for it, I should go back and edit the rest of those pages to match... Anomie 15:05, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh there it is ;) nope you did right I goofed. Cheers Khukri 15:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New template proposal: Template like uw-copyright for external links 

message: Just for info  &  have both been put up for TfD. Khukri 19:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD 

message: I've looked around but I was wondering if there is a template to put on the talk page of users who try to contact celebrities through their respective Wikipages (e.g. "I love you so much *****! Email me at ***")?  In the interim should I use social networking or chatting tags? If one doesn't exist, this may be a useful template to make. - AKeen 15:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Templated messages are used for the more common types of issues, and are not a substitute for a good ol personal message and I think something like this would warrant the personal touch. I wouldn't necessarily think about creating a template for cyberstalking. Khukri 15:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Khukri. No need for template. --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 21:07, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Fair enough. Thanks for responses. - AKeen 14:36, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warning for those trying to contact celebrities 

message: I have created, and added to the page, two new templates.
 is used to notify/warn soemone that a speedy delete tag that s/he has placed has been considered inappropriate and has been removed.
 is used to remind editors that when placing a speedy delete tag it is a good idea to notify the creator of the artticle involved that it has been tagged. 
I have testetd both templates in my user space before moving them to template space. i expect that they will be most useful to people patroling :Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. I hope people find them useful. DES (talk) 15:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Both probably need to be harmonized with the WP:UW look and feel and naming convention. As a side note, we might want to organize the single templates an other way, the table is growing a lot. -- lucasbfr talk 15:25, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree with Lucas but would you mind if I remved them until they get the UW treatment? you might want to also look here here we've got ideas to standardise all the sp templates as well as some other areas. I'll wait a little while, but I'll most probably take them down this evening till they become standardised. Cheers Khukri 16:48, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are not quite "user-warning" templates, there are others listed that are not either, mostly in the "Other" section. I'm not sure these really should use the UW look or naming convention, although they can if you wish. Perhaps they should be moved down into the "Other" section perhaps in "deletion notifiactions"? But I am not claiming to WP:OWN these, so if you want to re-arrange them to have the uw-look and name, you surely may. DES (talk) 16:55, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  2 templates connected with speedy deletes 

message: Most of these templates used to have a "-n" appended, which made it easy to see which article the user was warned for. Any chance of getting a list of these or adding this to every current "UW" template? --Liface 15:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They aren't needed anymore, every template does this by default. If you look at the bottom of any template it tells you how to use the templates i.e. . Cheers Khukri 15:44, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What happened to the "-n" 

message: Is there a warning for users who use warnings maliciously? I warned a user who had made some *ahem* non-constructive edits, and he replied to me with a blatant vandal template. --LuigiManiac 14:34, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really, but you should probably remove the warning, and either re warn him for vandalism or type a personalized message :) -- lucasbfr talk 14:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. I warned him with a custom message, and removed the warning from my talk page. --LuigiManiac 14:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looking for specific warning template 

message: ====Possible contradiction between this template and the policy page====
I think there's a contradiction between this template, which implies that you're entitled to three reverts per day, and the policy page, which states that it's not an entitlement. I've drawn attention to it here. ElinorD 17:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed the template to correct the wording. Note that this doesn't leave much of the template left over. It might probably be wise to just block everyone who uses this template. (The previous version could get people blocked on the novel theory of misrepresenting guidelines. This in addition to what would happen if you apply this version: You could be blocked for ruleslawyering, gaming the rules, and being a WP:DICK in general, not to mention you might draw attention to any edit warring you've been doing yourself. Finally, you could get reprimanded as per WP:KETTLE.) —Kim Bruning 21:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reworded the "Please read 3RR", which can be read as being a little confrontational, and suggested the talk page to work out troubles. It's quite a big change for a small template, so please check I've done it all right. --h2g2bob 22:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

text: It's linked from the words "repeatedly revert edits". --Geniac 18:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: uw-3rr

message: I think there's a contradiction between this template, which implies that you're entitled to three reverts per day, and the policy page, which states that it's not an entitlement. I've drawn attention to it here. ElinorD 17:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed the template to correct the wording. Note that this doesn't leave much of the template left over. It might probably be wise to just block everyone who uses this template. (The previous version could get people blocked on the novel theory of misrepresenting guidelines. This in addition to what would happen if you apply this version: You could be blocked for ruleslawyering, gaming the rules, and being a WP:DICK in general, not to mention you might draw attention to any edit warring you've been doing yourself. Finally, you could get reprimanded as per WP:KETTLE.) —Kim Bruning 21:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reworded the "Please read 3RR", which can be read as being a little confrontational, and suggested the talk page to work out troubles. It's quite a big change for a small template, so please check I've done it all right. --h2g2bob 22:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible contradiction between this template and the policy page

message: This template is currently inferior to  in my opinion, because it just seems to be a generic "don't edit-war" template and doesn't actually explain what the 3RR policy is or even mention it. One use of user warnings is to inform users of policy, and this template fails in that regard at the moment. I see that the link has been removed in the past, though, so I'm posting this here to request more thought about the matter. --ais523 12:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's linked from the words "repeatedly revert edits". --Geniac 18:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't this link to [[WP:3RR]] somewhere? 

message: Please clarify - is it 3 or 4? I thought after a  you could report to AIV? AndrewRT(Talk) 00:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The new uw- warning system has 4 has the final, and reportable one. --TeckWizParlateContribs@ 00:56, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Mm. The "uw-" prefix applies to user messages in general, although I can see why you're hung up about it. This template is not a warning template, nor was it ever consciously classified as such. It's actually a notice. Believe me,  is in no way a warning, but under harmonization and such, it was created to begin with "uw-". I hope that this isn't rather inconvenient. GracenotesT § 22:22, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: uw-aiv

message: I'm not entirely happy having this template classed as a "user warning" template. I created it as a way to give feedback to users who made unsuccessful reports to AIV in good faith without knowing for technical reasons that they would not be actionable. It was there as a partner to  (which I haven't created yet!) to feedback successful AIV reports.
I think its good to bring it into line with the user template rationalisation programme but I don't think it really sits well alongside templates like . Could it be reclassified somehow? AndrewRT(Talk) 19:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mm. The "uw-" prefix applies to user messages in general, although I can see why you're hung up about it. This template is not a warning template, nor was it ever consciously classified as such. It's actually a notice. Believe me,  is in no way a warning, but under harmonization and such, it was created to begin with "uw-". I hope that this isn't rather inconvenient. GracenotesT § 22:22, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warning? 

message: Shouldn't this template raise the possibility of speedy deletion? Right now it looks like it can only be used for autobiographical articles that might be sent to WP:AFD. --Metropolitan90 16:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just tried the template , pasting in the name of the article, and when the template was substituted on the user's talk page, the name of the article didn't appear. I don't grok templates well enough to fix this.--Kathy A. 22:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: uw-autobiography

message: The documentation for this template doesn't specify the  parameter, which is unique to this template and not used for (most?) other user warning templates.  --Russ (talk) 14:25, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: uw-c&pmove

message: A lot of the text on this template would only be appropriate for newer users. If this was given to established editors that made an honest mistake, it would be insulting to tell them to read the welcome page and use the sandbox for test edits. Just my 2 cents. :: ZJH (T C E) 12:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why all of the level 1 templates have been written as AGF warnings, and to inform editors that the edit they have just done is wrong. For an established editor who should know better than remove large tracts of text without providing an edit summary one would normally start with a level 2 warning. The language of level 2 is usually faith neutral tending towards reproach so that if a mistake has been made we are still not throwing around blatant accusations. cheers Khukri 12:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Only for newer users? 

message: Don't get me wrong, I *like* the passive voice. When used correctly, it's a wonderful thing. However, the current Uw-delete1 template says (in part): 
: Please ... do not remove content from Wikipedia without a good reason, which should be specified in the edit summary.
That last clause can be read two ways: 
# <I>You</I> should provide the edit summary. Or, 
# The edit summary field should be filled in automatically by the server; you should see text there when you edit. 
Inexperienced users won't know which way to interpret it. <BR> 
May I recommend instead: 
:Please ... do not remove content from Wikipedia without typing a good reason in the edit summary field.
It's a more emphatic way of reminding the user of his or her responsibility. -- JEBrown87544 00:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No probs at all. You could do the same aim by a smaller change .....Wikipedia without a good reason, which you should specify.... But it's splitting hairs, on you go. Khukri 07:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Passive voice is OK, but....  

message: I am a victim of this template. It is very offensive to get a standardised warning from a thoughtless editor who did not take the trouble to review whether the edit was good or bad for Wikipedia, or to read the associated talk page. I am thinking of quitting as a result of this brutal treatment. I do not think you should allow editors to use templates like this as a shortcut way of making unfair allegations. Varsdra 19:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you removed content from an article accidentally, the template should not offend you. If you removed it intentionally, then either you should have stated a reason, or been warned with a stronger content blanking/vandalism template. It takes a bit of a thick skin to edit here, since your edits will always be under the scrutiny of others. As far as "brutal treatment", c'mon. If you consider a vanilla warning like this one brutal, I fear for you. -- Elaich 17:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is about as mild as warnings get. It's practically British. Natalie 15:25, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: This is very offensive

message: Is there no template for lack of English in the articles? 
This one seems to me to be just for the talk-pages...Greswik 15:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: uw-english

message: ====BJAODN link====
Even though this is a level 1 block, is it wise to link to BJAODN in this template? I'm seeing a WP:BEANS situation here by implicitly encouraging editors to just make joke edits elsewhere. BJAODN can be entertaining, but it's more of a comic relief for seasoned editors rather than a place we direct newbies to. Tijuana Brass 06:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea!--Kubigula (talk) 15:53, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Uncyclopedia change works for me too. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 16:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I just looked and it mentioned Uncyc, not BJAODN.  If it is not going to continue to point to Uncyc, I suggest that it shouldn't point to anything there, for reasons already covered above. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 14:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We agree.  I was thinking that the link should be to Uncyclopedia rather than Uncyclopedia; however, I may well be overthinking it.--Kubigula (talk) 14:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like that idea; link to the topic here rather than to the other site.  While I think it would result in a small spike of joke-vandalism at the Uncyclopedia article, I'm sure it has plenty of watchers since it's is already and obvious target anyway. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm glad you agree.  Cheers, by the way, on your bold edits to the template.  I have to agree with you on the smiley face.--Kubigula (talk) 01:51, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sankyu beddy mush. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 07:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the hope was that if they like humor, they could turn out to be legitimate editors at Uncyclopedia.  However, I see your point that the result could be that we just end up funneling WP vandals to Uncyclopedia.  So, I have no objection to deleting the reference.--Kubigula (talk) 13:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: uw-joke1

message: Even though this is a level 1 block, is it wise to link to BJAODN in this template? I'm seeing a WP:BEANS situation here by implicitly encouraging editors to just make joke edits elsewhere. BJAODN can be entertaining, but it's more of a comic relief for seasoned editors rather than a place we direct newbies to. Tijuana Brass 06:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea!--Kubigula (talk) 15:53, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Uncyclopedia change works for me too. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 16:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I just looked and it mentioned Uncyc, not BJAODN.  If it is not going to continue to point to Uncyc, I suggest that it shouldn't point to anything there, for reasons already covered above. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 14:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We agree.  I was thinking that the link should be to Uncyclopedia rather than Uncyclopedia; however, I may well be overthinking it.--Kubigula (talk) 14:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like that idea; link to the topic here rather than to the other site.  While I think it would result in a small spike of joke-vandalism at the Uncyclopedia article, I'm sure it has plenty of watchers since it's is already and obvious target anyway. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm glad you agree.  Cheers, by the way, on your bold edits to the template.  I have to agree with you on the smiley face.--Kubigula (talk) 01:51, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sankyu beddy mush. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 07:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the hope was that if they like humor, they could turn out to be legitimate editors at Uncyclopedia.  However, I see your point that the result could be that we just end up funneling WP vandals to Uncyclopedia.  So, I have no objection to deleting the reference.--Kubigula (talk) 13:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: BJAODN link

message: ==== When to use this template ====
Only use this template if the user who is violating WP:OWN is new to Wikipedia. Usually these type of violations are from expierienced users. If the user is expierienced, use Uw-own2 or Uw-own3 (depending on how severe or hostile the problem is) and try to resolve the problem on the article's talk page. If the editor persists and behaves disruptively (e.g. revert war, personal attacks, uncivility, etc.), use other templates. Squirepants101 16:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be noted that the use of templates on experienced users is regarded by many as uncivil and that a better way of dealing with the issue would be to type a polite message on the user's talkpage rather than hit them with a template. The user is undoubtedly already aware of WP:OWN... WJBscribe 17:43, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:DTTR. SalaSkan 21:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: uw-own1

message: Only use this template if the user who is violating WP:OWN is new to Wikipedia. Usually these type of violations are from expierienced users. If the user is expierienced, use Uw-own2 or Uw-own3 (depending on how severe or hostile the problem is) and try to resolve the problem on the article's talk page. If the editor persists and behaves disruptively (e.g. revert war, personal attacks, uncivility, etc.), use other templates. Squirepants101 16:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be noted that the use of templates on experienced users is regarded by many as uncivil and that a better way of dealing with the issue would be to type a polite message on the user's talkpage rather than hit them with a template. The user is undoubtedly already aware of WP:OWN... WJBscribe 17:43, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:DTTR. SalaSkan 21:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  When to use this template 

message:  seems to be broken at the moment (try it in the sandbox): the first sentence ends up reading 'Welcome, and thank you for experimenting with the page [[:the page : on]] on Wikipedia.'. I think that this is a problem with optional subst, rather than with the template itself, though. --ais523 09:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken? 

message: For a "let's assume good faith"-template, I think this one is to harsh! 
This because it assumes the user wanted the result to be what it was. To me, an assume good faith here should have been more in the direction of "as your test did not come out so well, it has now been reverted or removed"... or something (please note this two last words.). The point with using a level1 warning is one still has hope for the editor, right? But I am not a native english speaker, so I don't know how english speakers would take this. Anyone seeing my point, or is it just me? Greswik 19:46, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: This one is to harsh?

message: ====Conflicts with extant guidelines====
Please note that this template, in the overgenerality of its wording, conflicts with the long-standng WP:REFACTOR.  These templates should only be used when the refactoring (or deletion of course) appears to be a) in bad faith, or b) is nitpicky spelling-fascism types of edits.  They should not be used for a) sensitive refactoring (such as correcting broken wikilinks in others' posts, fixing indentation levels, adding in missing attribution, etc.), b) archival of talk messages, or c) accuracy refactoring of poll results and other talk page items of a factual, not personal, nature. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 01:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: uw-tpv1

message: Please note that this template, in the overgenerality of its wording, conflicts with the long-standng WP:REFACTOR.  These templates should only be used when the refactoring (or deletion of course) appears to be a) in bad faith, or b) is nitpicky spelling-fascism types of edits.  They should not be used for a) sensitive refactoring (such as correcting broken wikilinks in others' posts, fixing indentation levels, adding in missing attribution, etc.), b) archival of talk messages, or c) accuracy refactoring of poll results and other talk page items of a factual, not personal, nature. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 01:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Conflicts with extant guidelines

message: We should allow an argument diff=url like some of the other templates do in order to link directly to the incident in question. --Frank Lofaro Jr. 01:26, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest bringing this up on WT:UTM as very few people have all these templates on their watchlists. Regards Khukri 08:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No response, despite it being brought up so I'm bringing it up again. All vandalism-related user talk template messages need the "diff" parameter added. ∞ΣɛÞ² (τ|c) 14:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's a good idea and I think it'll need to be somehow ORd in with the first parser argument. So instead of as you did to Article should look like as you did here. If one of you guys can give me a rough find replace look for to Article to   if diff= ............. I can tweak the rest of the wordings by hand within AWB. Cheers Khukri 07:05, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the meantime, the "2=" parameter can be used per Wikipedia_talk:Template_messages/User_talk_namespace/Archive_6#uw-vandalism2_not_working_right.3F. ∞ΣɛÞ² (τ|c) 12:47, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add diff link 

message: ... edits have been considered unhelpful or unconstructive and have been reverted or removed.
I've never liked this wording. The passive voice combined with the use of "considered" seems like an attempt to avoid responsibility by the template user. I think the wording ...edits appear to be unhelpful or unconstructive... would be a more accurate description of the process. It's also more diplomatic in the event of a mistake. Any thoughts on this matter? — Feezo <FONT SIZE="-2">(Talk)</FONT> 23:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I agree with you. The "appear to be" version sounds better. --- RockMFR 03:11, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree that the wording is a bit awkward, but I'm not sure I agree with the proposed solution.  If there is any possibility that the edits were a legitimate attempt to edit the article, I think the appropriate warning should be .  I use V1 for the times when there is no doubt the edit was unhelpful or unconstructive (the "Bob likes to lick balls!!!!" variety).  We can give them the benefit of the doubt that they were just experimenting rather than vandalizing, but it's hard not to say that the edit was, at best, unhelpful or unconstructive.  By the way, I made my own pitch for rewriting V1 and V2 at WT:UTM#Changing V1 and V2, though without drawing much attention.--Kubigula (talk) 03:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wording 

message: MessedRocker recently reverted one of my changes as incorrect grammar: . "One or more of your edits have [e.g., not has] been removed". I'm fairly sure this is bad grammar, but it might be a UK/US thing. Try on this sentence: One or more is enough vs. One or more are enough. I'm 98% sure the first is gramatically correct as one is the primary subject. The Evil Spartan 16:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting.  I was curious as to this issue, so I did some research.  Every source I looked at stated that when using "or", the verb should agree with the subject closest to the verb.    So, in this case, have is apparently correct.--Kubigula (talk) 17:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ich. Well it still sounds wrong to me. Maybe we could reword it to not sounds to awkward. Perhaps more or one of your recent edits has :P . The Evil Spartan 17:46, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've submitted a new version. See what you think. — Feezo <FONT SIZE="-2">(Talk)</FONT> 18:13, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  The use of "more" in this way is a shortcut for "more than one".  The sentences in question actually represent the one case where "more than one" calls for a plural verb.  However, I agree that it sounds unusual and is somewhat inconsistent, as "more than one editor" and "more than one of our editors" are both noun phrases that refer to X editors, where X > 1. Croctotheface 08:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  has/have 

message: Let me first say that I think the folks who have been working on revamping the templates are doing a fantastic job.  I know the project isn't done, and there is already much more consistency and clarity in the templates.  That being said, I would also like to nitpick.  Specifically, I think the current text of vandalism2 is too repetitive of vandalism1 - it says the same thing, though less.  I appreciate the theory relating to assumptions of good faith, but, in practice, I don't see much point in giving a vandalism2 if you've already given a V1.  My thought is to remove the, "as they could be considered to be vandalism" from V1.  This does weaken it a bit, but it also makes it more consistent with the assumption of good faith.  I will repeat this suggestion on the V1 talk page.--Kubigula (talk) 18:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: the vandal2 template should be strengthened and made a bit more explicit as a serious reminder, without being too accusatory in tone. I suggest the following be added:
"In the future, please remember that Wikipedia is a serious, online encyclopedia consulted daily by thousands of people around the world, who are seeking reliable, factual information."
-submitted by JGHowes 11:32, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Not everyone has these templates on their watchlists. May I suggest you repost your idea here WT:UTM which is the focal talk page for all user page templates. Regards Khukri 17:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Removing  for now -- I'd prefer to see a stronger consensus in favor of the change. Doesn't seem like a bad topic for discussion, so feel free to continue to pursue this change. Add the template back after some more discussion, I guess. :) – Luna Santin (talk) 22:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I support the making a change, but have another recommendation.  In my experience, only experienced editors can tell the difference between  and , as the same icon is used for levels 1 and 2.  Changing this icon will let both other editors (as well as the recipient of the warnings) to know the difference between the two warnings. --Sigma 7 03:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Too similar to {{tl|uw-vandalism1}}

message: Is there a template for misleading edit summaries?  I see one for using "minor" whien it's not, but not for people who post summaries that are misleading - I think we should ahe one if we don't.   Tvoz |talk 21:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's  also in versions 2 & 3. They haven't been moved over to the uw- format yet. Khukri 21:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - that's not what I'm looking for though.  I'm talking about edit summaries that claim  the edits are about one thing but are hiding other edits of a major kind - misleading because they say things like "copy edit" when they mean "reverting to what I wanted in the first place"  or they just don't mention a major edit while summarizing some other edit. This happens a lot on busy articles, where other editors may well miss several edits and when looking at history see edit summaries only and miss significant changes that were hidden. Tvoz |talk 21:52, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I see this sometimes too, often you can tell because they write things like, "changing a word round to make it more clear", when in fact they are adding vandalism.  See African elephant for some examples (all the Colbert stuff).  I think though that, a template is not needed, you can use uw-vand. --Jackaranga 04:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  misleading edit summaries 

message: What's the deal with the removal of more specific templates in favour of lumping them together in generic ones? The point of warning messages is to tell the user exactly what they did wrong, not allude to it vaguely. For example, the template drmmt series seems to have been removed (for removing maintenance templates like or, fact, etc without addressing the issues they have). Instead we're now directed to use a generic "you removed content from an article" template? That makes no sense and only serves to further confuse a new user.--Crossmr 12:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Try  and . If you really want, levels 3 and 4 can be created specifically for maintenance templates; however, the purpose of warning templates is to inform a user that our policy states than certain behavior can result in a block. If they already know from m1 and m2 that removing maintenance templates without good cause is Considered harmful, we can move to more standardized blanking-can-result-in-blocking warning templates. Best to keep it simple, I think. GracenotesT § 13:49, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of specific templates? 

message: Does anyone think we should make a block template for banned socks/sockmasters? (to be used on user talks). --R ParlateContribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 01:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  uw-sockblock 

message: In my opinion, 's wording seems a little awkward. I don't know if this needs to be fixed, or how to fix it offhand.  --Sigma 7 09:54, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems fine to me. --R ParlateContribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 14:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree that it's a little awkward.  How about, "Please do not add unreferenced controversial biographical information to Wikipedia articles on living persons. Thank you."--Kubigula (talk) 15:08, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Made the change.--Kubigula (talk) 22:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  uw-biog2 

message: Do we really gain anything by adding  113 full stops to this page?  --Kralizec! (talk) 22:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't see that it does any harm.  The lines he added full stops on are the comments you see when you hover the mouse over the item in the list.  It doesn't affect the warning in itself. --Jackaranga 22:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  113 periods 

message: I updated the phrasing of this warning because it created a sentence fragment if all parameters weren't put in (I'm not sure how to get rid of the space before the period without causing a problem when the parameters are filled). The documentation for that warning needs to be changed to explain that it has an exta parameter to designate the destination of the cut & paste move. The full template should read . —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 04:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that the spaces need to be inserted only if the variable is present, but the #if strips leading spaces. The trick is to use a HTML entity for space, such as  . Check this diff to see it in action. Anomie 01:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for fixing it! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 15:25, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  uw-c&pmove 

message: I was looking for a warning against impersonating other users (in particular, impersonating an admin) and either I missed it completely, or it doesn't exist. This is an obviously unacceptable practice and there should probably be a template message to those who do so. Bob  f it 08:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It happens in my opinion very rarely, and I have always been of the opinion that a personalised message is always better. Due to the rarity of this type of problem getting the one size fits all type wording we have with most of the other warnings will be quite difficult. I would recommend writing a personal message. I have been involved with most of these templates since the start, and there have been so many times where I will write a personal message explaining why someone screwed up instead of a template. Impersonating an admin is a bit different, in all cases whether it's someone saying they are going to punish you (which a real admin wouldn't do) or just userboxes, report the matter to WP:ANI, it's much easier to approach the situation as an admin than arguing with someone who is is trying to bully different view points into submission. Khukri 09:54, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impersonation warnings 

message: When I put "" it starts with this "Hello. Regarding the recent revert you made {#if:Gilbert Arenas|to Gilbert Arenas}}" The format is messed up. --AW 15:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed it, thanks for letting us know. Anomie 16:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uw-warn messed up 

message: Where is the template that adds If this is an IP address, and it is shared by multiple users, ignore this warning if you did not make any unconstructive edits.? I don't use it and can't find it but it was recommended that IP address be unlinked as that article gets a large amount of IP vandalism, most likely because we are giving the vandals a link to it. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 17:09, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Those templates can be found under Other. There are several templates available depending upon whether it's a school, an ISP, a business, etc. —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 18:27, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shared IP notice 

message: I recently reverted a user who left editorial comments in the article; not finding any appropriate template on WP:UTM, I ended up writing a comment in the style of a level-1 uw template for their talk page. Fortunately I checked the archives here before suggesting new templates for this purpose, and found mention of this template.
Is there any particular reason  isn't linked from WP:UTM? If it just needs cleanup, mention what needs to be done and I will volunteer to do it. Anomie 21:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ask and yea shall receive, . I'm a tad busy so would someone just add it to the front page here, and also to the details pages. Cheers Khukri 07:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nifty. I added it to the various pages as a single-level notice. Anomie 12:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Hmmm.  I meant to create a uw version of this template a while back, but I forgot.  So, kudos to Khukri and Anomie for making it happen so quickly!--Kubigula (talk) 13:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  <nowiki>{{talkinarticle}}</nowiki> 

message: Copied over from User talk:Addhoc to have more input. Khukri 15:31, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you issued any of these warnings, because the only editor I've given a level 3 warning doesn't deserve a block for his next unsourced inclusion of content. Possibly a user RfC could be considered, however to be honest even that would heavy-handed. Addhoc 14:57, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit conflictConsidering I wrote over half of these warning, I would say it gives me a reasonable inkling of how they are used. You have misread the situation, if you issued a lvl3 unsourced warning, after his next inclusion, he would receive a v4 and then a block, not a block straight after his lvl3 as you wrote. In any given situation someone should receive a lvl1 or 2, depending on if they'd done it previously, then a lvl3 unsourced, then a v4. So to be blocked they would have had to have repeated the same offence 4 times without discussing the issue. No matter that this completely falls foul of 3rr, even with the best intentions in the world, I'd have trouble AGF with someone who had inserted info 4 times into the same article without discussion. Khukri 15:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I'm not sure from your response if you have actually ever used any of these warnings. Yep, ok you wrote them, however after I used them, I toned them down, because they seemed to be overkill. Could I suggest you have a look at User talk:Anishshah19 to see what I mean? Thanks, Addhoc 15:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: C'mon no need to be facetious, of course I've used the warnings, anyone who is round here long enough uses them after a while admin or not. OK matter in hand, looks like your warnee has a done this at least once before, so I wouldn't have started with a level 1. Lvl2 on the other hand is quite explicit in it's instruction. Please do not add content without citing reliable sources. Before making potentially controversial edits, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the article's talk page. Thank you.. Now assuming they've ignored you, you given an explicit intruction not to insert this material with out discussing it. Then you issue lvl3, for ignoring your previous instruction, this is simple, you ignored the first warning, if you continue a block will be issued. After that, once issuing a v4, if you are ignored again then a block via WP:ANI would be the only option. I've reverted your change as well to unsourced3, changes like this should be discussed at WT:UTM. It is clear you disagree with me in this, so I have copied this discussion over to WT:UTM to gain greater input. Khukri 15:30, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  question about unsourced3 leading to v4 and being blockable 

message: I feel that there should exist a less severe warning on copyright issues.  currently redirects to , which immediately starts threatening with blocks and such, while new (or anonymous) users may not even be aware of our strict copyright policy. What about redirecting  and  to  instead? SalaSkan 21:09, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because copyright violations are a serious problem for Wikipedia that can cause legal problems for the Wikimedia foundation. Also, why would we redirect a uw- warning to an old warning? --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@(Let's Go Yankees!) 02:33, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I also disagree, copyright violations are a serious issue, and if nobody would block a 1st time violator, they need to understand that the violation is severe. -- lucasbfr talk 13:18, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought I once heard or though it meant "deletion because," but I'm not sure. --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@(Let's Go Yankees!) 20:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|Uw-copyright1}} 

message: This templete must be updated so it doesn't refer to the copyrighted information as a whole article. --MrStalker talk 14:21, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I had this on the corner of my desk for a while now, I removed all the licensing text from the template, and redirected the people using  to a new template, . subliminal message: guys, we need to start these templates one day. -- lucasbfr talk 16:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good. And  by the way, I've always wondered, what does "db" stand for? --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@(Let's Go Yankees!) 17:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My best guess is "dpeesy beletion", but that implies quite a strong dyslexia. -- lucasbfr talk 18:48, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Over at Template_talk:Db-reason they answered the question for you: Delete Because. :)--Kathy A. 20:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lucas, you asked it yourself on that page last month, and got an answer :) --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@(Let's Go Yankees!) 21:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|Uw-copyright}} 

message: There is a discussion about the redirection the uw-upv warning series to the  series.  Please join the conversation if you have a view.--Kubigula (talk) 02:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirecting UPV warnings 

message: There is a proposal for such a template message at Wikipedia:Requested templates. –Pomte 01:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest users to upload to Commons instead of here 

message: Would it not make warnings a lot easier if the codes could be placed in the box with shortcuts for code and extra characters that appears just below the text in the editing screen? We could then just type the name of the article, it would surely save a lot of time. Obviously we wouldn't need all of them, but we could fit almost all of the commonly used templates on a single line. Richard001 00:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aren't there plenty of scripts you can install into your monobook.js (or equivalent) that do that sort of thing for you and more? And as a bonus, the whole list of templates isn't there to confuse newbies. Anomie 00:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template code should be placed in shortcut toolbox 

message: I'm new to this... how do you handle a vandalizing IP address? Caswin 01:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it depends upon the severity of said user's vandalism.  If it's a relatively minor offense, you might consider adding  or some other warning to their talk page.  For more minor warnings for an IP address, look about halfway down this page.  If the offense was more severe, go to this page and post the warning that fits their offense on their talk page.  For example, if the user removed a little bit of content from an article once, you might consider adding the appropriate level 1 warning  to their page.  If they do it again, or they deleted more content, add a level 2 warning .  There are 4 warning levels, each increasing in severity before the user is blocked.  Ok, that explanation probably didn't make much sense—if you want a better explanation, feel free to ask me on my talk page or wait for another user to reply.  Arwen Undomiel talk 06:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  IP warning? 

message: Why are Template:Uw-maintenance1 and Template:Uw-maintenance2 no longer listed at UTM. I don't remember ever getting rid of them. On their pages, it says after 2 to escalate to delete 3 and delete 4. Should we put them back? --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 17:55, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know why, but they were removed on 14:46, April 3, 2007 (UTC) by Khukri with the edit summary "maintenance -> single issue". Anomie 19:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the point is that  &  cover the same offenses well enough, especially since you can put in you own comments to personalize the message. Cheers! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 19:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: -Redirected. --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 22:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:uw-maintenance1 and 2 

message: Is there any rationale behind  and  referring only to "articles" rather than to the more inclusive "pages"? It seems to be the only applicable template for content removal for pages as well. Noting that  and  in the same series both refer to pages, I suspect there is no specific rationale and, unless I'm wrong, suggest harmonizing the first two.--Fuhghettaboutit 01:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the uw-delete templates are referring to more than just articles, I removed the article references on uw-1 & 2 so that they can be used on other pages besides articles. --Hdt83  Chat 06:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's an improvement; I'm almost certain there was no conscious rationale for using the word "article" in those two templates.--Kubigula (talk) 18:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great. I was just being cautious as I was not involved in nor did I follow the infamous Ģяєāţ Ţєmpļāţə Ôvəŗhāũļ of 2007.--Fuhghettaboutit 22:27, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  uw-delete series 

message: I suggest adding a new message template that specifically addresses when people repeatedly insert or re-add blatant grammar and formatting errors to articles, such as in the following two counterproductive edits that have been made over and over again by two accounts: example one, 
example two. I have not seen any message template that addresses that specific problem. The vandalism template seems too generic.Spylab 13:57, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think  covers most of what you're talking about. As for formatting, well I'd either just fix it or write a personal note. Cheers! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 14:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since they are good faith edits, just poorly done, my own opinion would be that escalating warnings would be inappropriate. I've run across the type you're talking about in my own editing. Leaving a personal note that you're going to help out by cleaning up their "Russ-lish", "Spang-lish" or whatever, works much better especially if you're careful to phrase it in a helpful manner. If they revert your fixes, that's another story entirely, though. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 18:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion for new message template 

message: Hello. Could some people please review, discuss and improve :Category:Poor English welcome messages, and the associated template? Thank you, Tualha (Talk) 18:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor English welcome messages 

message: I've made a request for a template for letting people know they should upload their (free use) images to Commons, however I haven't had any response thus far. I've used the text by copying and pasting four times yesterday, and I will no doubt use it again in the future as well. I think others would also benefit from using this template and being given such messages. The proposal can be found at WP:TR#A notice for people who upload media to Wikipedia instead of Commons. I would make the template myself, but I have no experience making this type of template, so I probably wouldn't make a very good job of it. Richard001 00:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. It's at . I added some text to make it clear that fair use/non-free content should not be uploaded to commons. We don't want to send problems their way. Can an editor better at template coding than I am please fix the usage section so it doesn't include the header? Also, the word "to" is not appearing in the first usage section, right after "images/media".--Fuhghettaboutit 11:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How's that? I didn't see any problem with the word "to", unless it was because the page needed purging (when you transclude a template into itself, purging is often required). Anomie 12:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks., much better. I did ctrl+f5 before I posted the issue regarding the "to" not showing up; I think my cache is stubborn (reagrdless, it's fixed now). Please make any other improvements you (or anyone) deem appropriate. I haven't categorized it yet. Do you think it goes in user warning templates? It doesn't seem like a perfect fit but many templates in that category are not quite "warnings".--Fuhghettaboutit 13:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ctrl+F5 was useful to try, but it was Wikipedia's cache that needed purging (see Help:Purge for more info). Anomie 15:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for user to upload to Commons 

message: Would it be possible to move  and  into the "uw-" series if they were tidied up to the style guidelines? GDonato (talk) 21:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: you might want to see this discussion: Usernameblock --Hdt83  Chat 21:41, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: We don't need two sets of templates for doing the same thing. The templates are just about the same anyway, just the uw templates look more professional - we should standardise the way we warn vandals. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:11, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of us feel that the new templates look far less professional.  Given the fact that these aren't used in articles, there really isn't any harm in having more than one set; vandal warnings needn't be uniform in appearance.  —David Levy 23:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Username templates 

message: On the block templates, should the images be changed to ? After all, the x has a transparent background, and SVG's really have no advantage considering that Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox render them as PNG's. What do you guys think? Springbob Squirepants 02:13, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the SVGs should be kept. I also think the current images look better than that X. Anomie 02:17, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not the browsers that are rendering them as PNGs, it's MediaWiki. -- nae'blis 02:37, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I thought it was my browser. But anyway, question: Why do we NEED to use SVG's if MediaWiki renders them as PNG's? Springbob Squirepants 14:11, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Block templates 

message: I think we could do with a warning just like  except for spam. It's inappropriate to give someone a 'last warning' or 'only warning' template for their first offense, but when it's blatant advertising, which it usually is, something gentler but making it clear that they can be blocked without further notice if they persist would help. , anyone? Richard001 00:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm...I think you can just use uw-spam4im. I really don't see how you can decide when to use bv and 4im anyway. Also, we may be feeding the vandals with that proposed template name. :) R ParlateContribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 01:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blatant spam 

message: Am I not seeing it or do we not have a uw-copyvio or similar warning?  --ElKevbo 02:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: , and ? Anomie 02:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take that as a "you were not seeing." :)  Thanks!  Don't know how I missed them...  --ElKevbo 02:41, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyvio warning? 

message: Somebody just used UW-Defam4 on me as a first warning, for citing Godwin's Law on another user, on the talk page. 24.205.34.217 22:36, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's definitely not right. Some form of warning should be taken... ~Crowstar~ 12:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, I've asked Evilclown for some clarification, if the warning was infact for citing Godwin's Law or was it for this which I think more likely? Edit Also this isn't the correct forum for these types of problems, I would suggest WP:ANI in future. Khukri 13:41, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw that earlier; looking at the context, it appears to me as vaguely relevant nonsense rather than blatantly defamatory information. Anomie 13:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ahhh, that has to be it. I can see the reason someone might cite me on that. I was just providing "evidence" that the "cunting cunt" was in wikipedia, at least at some point. 24.205.34.217 21:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Well, I'm slightly miffed 

message: I mentioned this a while ago and would like to request it now: I think a template for misleading edit summaries would be a good idea. I'm talking about when it says something like  "cleanup"  or "typo"  or some other misleading thing but really means "changed the meaning" - similar to marking something as "m" when it isn't.  A template for that would be useful - it can be a little different from just straight-up vandalism, as it is designed to sneak vandalism in and get people not to look at the change. Anyway, I'd find it useful. Tvoz |talk 17:27, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say a single use template ("uw-missummary"?), and then just use the regular vandalism templates. --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 17:31, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We actually have , ,  as well as , though none of these are part of the uw scheme.  I think we could probably make one single use template out of the lot.--Kubigula (talk) 18:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  misleading edit summaries 

message: Why do we have both 1-2-3-4 series of warnings and also the 4im "only warning"s? Josh the Nerd 21:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole system should be geared up towards flexibility, whilst trying to maintain our standards whilst dealing with people who might not have the same level of integrity, and at all times even in the face of adversity, trying to assume good faith. Khukri 15:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  4im? 

message: I can't see a notice/warning about commenting in talk archives. Am I being blind, or do we need one? John Hayestalk 13:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Or maybe more generally editing an archive page (unless archiving obviously). John Hayestalk 13:56, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commenting in talk archives warning? 

message: Not sure if it's completely necessary, but should we have a link to BJAODN on the template? Arky   ¡Hablar Conmigo! 02:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not too sure what you are talking about here. Can you give more details like what templates we are dealing with? --Hdt83  Chat 05:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, sorry, wrong talk page... I meant on templates like  and stuff. Cheers, Arky   ¡Hablar Conmigo! 01:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There used to be a link to BJAODN, but a point was raised that this probably just served to feed and/or encourage joke vandalism.  I've come to agree with this point - don't feed the vandals.--Kubigula (talk) 17:27, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I think telling users not to make jokes, and telling them we have a special page for jokes and joke edits, in the same sentence, is a bit contradictory, as Kubigula says, it can only encourage vandalism. John Hayestalk 18:53, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional Link 

message: Would somehthing like this be worth while. I thought of this today but others may think its a waist of time of effort.
Any have a look if you like put it to use possibly.
*  --~~~~ 
*This comes out of it.
 Please stop. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, you will be blocked from editing.   --Ad@m.J.W.C. 13:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this may confuse some users in to thinking that the IP info at the end may the signature of the IP who left that message which would not be good. If you look at WP:UW, we already have a similar template (:Template:S/wnote displaying the IP addresses information and contribs. --Hdt83  Chat 22:37, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How about this 

message: *Same thing different warning.
 Please stop adding inappropriate external links to Wikipedia. It is considered spamming and Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, additions of links to Wikipedia will not alter search engine rankings. If you continue spamming, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.   --Ad@m.J.W.C. 07:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this may confuse some users in to thinking that the IP info at the end may the signature of the IP who left that message which would not be good. If you look at WP:UW, we already have a similar template (:Template:S/wnote displaying the IP addresses information and contribs. --Hdt83  Chat 22:37, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Or this

message: I've been pointed to Wikipedia:Don't template the regulars. I disagree with it and rather agree with Wikipedia:Template the regulars, but have also noticed some problems with the use of templates on regulars which might require the creation of alternate first level warnings for regulars. 
Now, in the case I used the 3RR warning on a regular in an edit war who had made 3 reverts. If I was edit warring, I'd personally appreciate the warning. I've never been blocked and want to avoid being blocked. But I've received negative responses about this from a couple of users.
First off, what is the definition of "regular". Am I a regular? I edit almost every day, and have been doing so for 4 months.
Anyway, back to my point. When a "regular" has made a clear violation of policy, I want to assume good faith. According to this page, only the level 1 warnings assume good faith. But they have all this welcome to Wikipedia verbiage perceived as condescending by some. So, with a "regular", should we jump directly to level 2 warnings to avoid being condescending? or do we need some new level 1 warnings without the welcoming tone? IPSOS (talk) 15:59, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not leave them an actual message, instead of a template?  Don't you think someone is more likely to respond positively to your request if you take the time to talk to them, rather than dropping a form letter on their page?  Antandrus  (talk) 16:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did. I was told I was wrong and a liar. This illustrates the problem with not being able to template regulars. Just because a user is regular, doesn't mean that they are always right, civil, assume good faith, etc. If those things were true, then certainly templating regulars would be silly. But "regulars" can be just as wrong as newbies... IPSOS (talk) 16:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you got a harsh response from a personalized message, then you probably would have gotten an even harsher response from a warning template.  There are some special use templates that are appropriate helpful tips for "regulars" - e.g. , .  Beyond that, I personally agree with WP:DTTR and Antandrus that it's much preferable to compose a personalized message when dealing with regulars.--Kubigula (talk) 16:31, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree with DTTR and will remove any if i get them. It is not right to give a user a pre-made message. --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 18:03, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are situations that occur again and again. they require basically identical msgs again and again. I don't see why anyone should object to getting those msgs via a template. if "templatign the regulars" were forbidden i would just store my standard msgs offline and paste them in, to no particular gain for anyone. Now I do object to people who say "don't blame me, that was the template's language." If you put it on someone's talk page, you said it, a template is just a tool, particularly templates not part of a standard or mandated process. But consider an example. i patrol the speedy delete category a lot. I rather often find speedy tags placed on articles that I don't consider valid speedys. i remove those tags. i am not in anyway required to notify anyone, but I usually choose to do so. I do this both as a courtesy: to tell the user who placed the tag that it had been removed and why (so that it can be discussed if the user wishes) and as a form of education -- too many people are IMO too quick with db tags, and I have has a number indicate that they will rethink their practice after I have notified them. Now i notify with . If I had to personally type the content of that every time, i would be far less likely to notify, and IMO something would be lost. DES (talk) 21:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Of course they conflict. They express precisely oppsoed points of view on a subject wher there is no consensus. That is why they are essay's, not poolicies. Each should include a link to the other, but there is no good reason for a merge, and les for an MfD. DES (talk) 19:59, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templating the regulars 

message: As it is easy for trolls to add inappropriate warnings to people's talk pages, and difficult for the victim to remove them without further accusations arising from removing warnings, I feel that there needs to be a way to make it easy for editors of good standing to stand up in defence of a user who has been maligned with inappropriate warnings.  We should maybe add a template (with some appropriate icon), which says something like:
::I believe that the preceding warning message is not applicable to the actions of this user.
Of course, such support is only worth as much as the reputation of the user who has signed it; that is for the reader to judge.  And the template documentation should make it clear that it is designed for defending other users against inappropriate warnings, and that anyone who uses it to respond to warnings on their own talk page will not enhance their reputation that way.
Your thoughts?
Sześćsetsześćdziesiątsześć 22:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There should be no problem with one removing templated warnings from one's user page. It is generally agreed that users are allowed to archive their user talk pages at will, and someone pointedly raising an objection to this will hopefully be corrected. If you disagree with the application of a template and wish to say so, responding with feigned indifference (that is, with another template) will surely escalate mattters more than discussion, or merely ignoring the template, will. GracenotesT § 22:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we need a template that explains the irony of using a template to disclaim the use of a template. Seriously though, I think the person can just type in that they feel the warning is not justified. Until(1 == 2) 23:16, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  need a template for labelling warnings as inappropriate? 

message: For those of you who don't have all the templates in your watch list, the above template has been proposed for TfD here. Khukri 23:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tfd  {{tl|uw-english}} 

message: The standardized uw style is particularly adapted, and intended, for warnings of possible misconduct, generally warnings that are part of an informational series. There are a number of templates, designed for use of user talk pages, which are more notifications than warnings, and do not follow this style (and IMO should not) I would like to be able to list these on this page, probably in the "other" section. But in the past I've been told that templates that did not fit the uw-style were not welcome on this page.
I refer specifically to , , and . Each of these generates a section header, so that they do not conform to uw style. IMO each of these is more useful because of the section header, but each would also be more useful if listed here for others to learn about and use. I am fairly sure that there are other templates to which this also applies. Come to think of it,  and  also fit this description. DES (talk) 20:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. A minor tangent: I haven't been active here in a bit, but am I the only one who thinks that the list of single-use notice templates is damn near the definition of "template-cruft"? Not every single less-than-optimal behavior requires a template. Eh. GracenotesT § 21:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If I have occasion to warn/notify three different people about the same behavior or situation, i think it is worth my while to create a template as boilerplate for future occasions. While these could live in my userspace, I think it saves effort if I share them -- others may find them useful too. Several people have expressed, for example that  seems like a good idea. IMO the same can be said for a fair number of these single use templates, though it may well be that some of them are unneeded. Not all of these by any means are truly "warnings" many are dimply routine notifications that there is no reason for people to have to retype time after time. DES (talk) 03:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I prefer the term "template-creep" myself.  While I have tried to resist the excessively specialized templates, I do think we should collect most or all of the generally useful template messages here as a central repository.  That being said, there are a number of templates here that seem to be redundant, and I hope to propose some housecleaning soon.--Kubigula (talk) 04:27, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  single-use non-uw templates 

message: There is no original research warning template, it should be added (I would add it but I can't find it). Thanks, Jeffrey.Kleykamp 22:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you think that the  series covers it? —METS501 (talk) 22:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I guess it does. Jeffrey.Kleykamp 01:40, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: I've added following templates in image section:
* if an image has no source indicated
* if an image has a source but no licensing information
* if an image has a fair use tag but isn't used in any articles
* if an image has a fair use tag but could be replaced by a free image
* if an image has no fair use rationale and was uploaded after May 4, 2006
Because notification messages found in these templates can easily lead to the uploader talk page. So I think, it's helpful to add these templates in Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace#Other.--NAHID 17:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think those are appropriate for Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace since they are not intended for use on user talk pages, but the user notification templates they recommend could be. Anomie 17:19, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New image template 

message: Do we maybe need a notice to let people know that they should indent their talk page comments? John Hayestalk 16:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think even newbies of the site will get into the flow of how things roll here, don't need to press every little issue. — Moe ε 14:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, I was thinking more about regular users who simply forget. I often find myself reminding people. John Hayestalk 15:58, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not indenting talk page comments notice 

message: I propose a template that can be used for users who place a  template below a CSD template but do not post a reason on the talk page. I'm not very good at wording such things (which is a good reason we have templates, lol), so if anyone else agrees that we could use this template and wants to create it, go for it. Thanks. --Pilotboi / talk / contribs 09:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hangon reason 

message: Love the templates; use them often. :) I'm wondering if there's a process in place for proposing alterations to them. My concern is with . I believe that it would more properly show an assumption of good faith simply by changing "Please be more careful when editing pages" to "Please be careful when editing pages." The former, to me, seems a bit more chastising than it needs to be, since sometimes editors have intended to remove the content but failed to communicate why. I often wind up manually revising that one and have not yet learned to make templates of my own. :) --Moonriddengirl 13:08, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a good place to propose changes - or you can be bold if it's relatively minor.  I think your suggestion is a good one, so I've gone ahead and made the change.--Kubigula (talk) 17:03, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. :) --Moonriddengirl 17:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposing alterations? 

message: All the Uw- templates are sorely missing an optional <CODE>diff=</CODE> parameter, as seen for instance on . Having the diffs available with warnings is important long-term, and currently there are only two inferior ways of doing so:
; 1) Tack it after the template (bleh)
   See the diff.
:  Please refrain from making test edits in Wikipedia articles even if your ultimate intention is to fix them.  Such edits appear to be vandalism and have been reverted.  If you would like to experiment again, please use the sandbox.  See the diff.
; 2) Hack it into the template (bug and bleh)
A diff URL can't be used directly as second parameter <CODE>|Additional text</CODE> because it embeds an <CODE>=</CODE> sign, so one needs to know the <CODE>|2=Additional text</CODE> hack:
  
:  Please refrain from making test edits in Wikipedia articles even if your ultimate intention is to fix them.  Such edits appear to be vandalism and have been reverted.  If you would like to experiment again, please use the sandbox. 
In both cases, I don't find having the diff trailing as an afterthought to be as readable and convenient as the nicely integrated way it's done in the Test templates. (As an aside, the 2= hack should be mentionned on the Uw- templates documentation; wanting to add a diff is quite a common thing.)
; 3) Add an optional diff= parameter (as in the {Test} templates)
  
: Please do not add nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. 
Now that's more like it! — Komusou talk @ 19:09, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Previous discussion: Wikipedia talk:Template messages/User talk namespace/Archive 7#Adding a link to the relevant edit (e.g._vandalism). Anomie 16:34, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing an optional diff= parameter as in the {Test} templates 

message: Shouldn't there be a warning for users who use misinformative edit summaries? For example, this IP has twice claimed to revert vandalism in the edit summary while vandalising articles. Another time, the IP claimed to correct typo and grammar mistakes. Well, you get the idea, right? I sent a message on the user's talk page, but was surprized to see that there was no warning template for issues like these. Also, what about inappropriate edit summaries (personal attacks, gibberish, foreign languages, etc.)? Anyways, it's just a little thought. ^^ Zouavman Le Zouave 14:54, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is , which was marked to be cleaned up and possibly added to the uw scheme.  Perhaps it could be modified to address both your issues - misleading or inappopriate edit summaries.--Kubigula (talk) 16:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit summary personal deals with personal attacks in edit summaries. A template may be needed for that also, but the thing you are talking about has been discussed before, I think. I remember coming up with a proposed name: "uw-missummary". It is a good idea, as it's a common thing. --(Review Me) R ParlateContribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 16:57, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Ah yes - I remember the prior conversations now - Wikipedia talk:Template messages/User talk namespace/Archive 7 - topic numbers 48 and 78 (both with the same name).  I think this template would be useful.  I support a one shot template, perhaps usurping , that addresses misleading and inappropriate edit summaries.  Any repetition of the behaviot can be dealt with as regular vandalism.  Anyone else?--Kubigula (talk) 17:59, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems like a helpful idea to me.  Hopefully the misuse of edit summaries can be limited via a simple notification template, but i'm a wee bit skeptical.  --Rocksanddirt 18:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If the user continues the behavior, one can just switch to the generic vandalism or npa warnings, since the user has already been warned about what is specifically wrong. Natalie 20:47, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inappropriate or misinformative edit summaries 

message: I felt a bit unnatural giving out uw-v1 because of "we invite ... our encyclopedia", since I don't consider Wikipedia belonging to me, at least no more than to others who want to edit constructively. :) How about: "Welcome to Wikipedia. Although Wikipedia invites everyone to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, ..." Let me know what you think please. Thank you. :) Rhanyeia 14:58, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Collectively, we are Wikipedia.  If it said, "I invite...", then I agree that it would be awkward.  As it is, I don't have any issue with individual editors speaking on behalf of the Wikipedia community in cases of clear vandalism.--Kubigula (talk) 16:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for commenting! I guess I felt that if I say "we" it includes "I" too, and unnatural to invite if other constructive editors already have the same possibility to edit than I. How about: "Welcome to Wikipedia! Although we welcome everyone to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, ..." Any opinions? :) Best regards Rhanyeia 16:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see your point.  How about if we said, ""Welcome to Wikipedia! Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia..."?--Kubigula (talk) 17:59, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that would be good. :) I encountered this same message when ClueBot says it. It was  "did not appear to be constructive" instead of "was not constructive", and I think that sounded good, giving a soft tone. Best regards Rhanyeia 18:57, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

text: OK - I will give it a little time before making the change to see if anyone else pipes in with a comment or objection.--Kubigula (talk) 21:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Thank you very much for your work! :) Could you still take a look at Template:Uw-mos1 please? And none of the templates you modified was the one ClueBot used, do you know what the bots use? I found its messages here. Best regards Rhanyeia 10:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I made the change to  - do you see some other issue with this template?  As to your second point, bots use their own messaging scripts that are developed by the bot operators.--Kubigula (talk) 16:52, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uw-v1 is very good now. :) With uw-mos1 you only forgot one word which is still there. :) Best regards Rhanyeia 17:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  uw-v1, reword a bit? 

message: Per discussion at Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard, User:Anonymous Dissident created (with some modifications by me)  as a non bitey way to warn users that their post at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents was at the wrong forum. Although it has not been used, in retrospect we probably should have discussed that here first. But if anyone cares to comment on either the utility of the template or suggest (or make improvements) to the template, it would be appreciated. Regards, Flyguy649 talk contribs 04:11, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a bad idea, though I do have two issues/concerns.  First, I'm not sure it's really needed.  If someone posts on AN/I and it's clearly the wrong place, someone else will almost always point that out.  If it's being pointed out on the thread, it seems unnecessary to point it out again on the poster's talk page.  Second, we have lots of forums where someone might post a message that actually belongs elsewhere.  We already have  and , and I don't know that we want to clutter UTM with a separate template for every possible misposting.  So, if we do go forward with this template, I suggest making it a bit more generic to cover various possible mispostings.  However, I lean towards thinking this is an individual message rather than template situation.--Kubigula (talk) 21:42, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed new template: [[:template:uw-ani]] 

message: I have noticed in several cases that IP addresses with old warnings on their talk pages can cause confusion. For example, I recall a case where an IP was reported to WP:AIV because it had "vandalized after a final warning" - but the final warning had been given 7 months earlier (i.e. it had nothing to do with the recent vandalism). I'm sure this happens often since I don't check WP:AIV on a daily basis or anything. Should we be deleting these old, obviously irrelevant warnings as a matter of course? (maybe the arbitrary date could be "the most recent warning is more than 1 month old). If the IP has been blocked before, that can easily be seen in the block log, so there is no problem about admins not noticing a long-term pattern of vandalism. ugen64 06:33, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is nothing written in stone about what happens to these talk pages, except for about the last year editors have been able remove warnings from their talk pages without any problems. On a problematic vandal IP address, or an institute IP address, the editors very rarely use these pages in discussion with the community, hence it is I believe up to us to control these pages. I have my own system when I go through talk pages, of formatting it in the month/numbered system and more often as not I tend to delete warnings older than six months - 8 months. I think it's only the recent pattern of vandalism that is interesting and if we are going to block we also automatically see their block log anyway. I know exactly how you feel with regards to AIV, yesterday I dished out 5  templates as all 5 reports on the page had not been given warnings or final warnings. cheers Khukri 07:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Keep also in mind that admins see the block log when they block an IP. Therefore old warnings can be safely removed if they resulted in a block. -- lucasbfr talk 18:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing old warnings 

message: I started to use uw-upv earlier today to warn a user, but changed my mind because of this sentence: "If you are the user, please log in under that account and proceed to make the changes."  That seems inappropriate in cases where you're sure that the user isn't the same person, like this one . (I'd think that's usually the case, actually -- if you feel you need to warn the person for the edit, it's probably for something that the actual user wouldn't have done.)  So, what do people people think about either removing that sentence or making a uw-upv2 that doesn't include it? Pinball22 13:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never been a big fan of that sentence either, and I've only ever used this template if I am virtually certain it's not the user.  So, I'd support removal.--Kubigula (talk) 17:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

text: It's meant to be non-bitey, but I agree that it isn't necessary. Flyguy649 talk contribs 17:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (removed my earlier comment) Well... Personally I would only use this template if I have reasons to assume the edit was made in good faith (eg, someone writing there instead of the talk page, or a neutral edit and in this case the section might be useful te remind that user to log in), and use vand if I think this is vandalism. -- lucasbfr talk 18:30, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But since this one specifically says "may be considered vandalism", it's not really useful as a good-faith reminder for those situations either, in my mind.  (In fact, I wouldn't mind if there were separate templates for those cases, though that might be going overboard with the templates.)  Anyway, yeah, I just used uw-vandalism1 in this case, but I'd like there to be a useful user-page-vandalism one. Pinball22 18:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change to uw-upv? 

message: Could someone please enlighten me as to what  is supposed to accomplish? I feel as though anyone who would recieve such a message is already well aware of the ideas conveyed. Warning at every opportunity seems punitive at best. Isopropyl 23:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As Administrator intervention against vandalism states that before a vandal may be reported, the abusive editor must have both received a "proper set" of warnings, and still continued to vandalize after a recent last warning.  If the first person to catch the vandal assumes good faith, then that means the vandal will get as many as four warnings before being reported to AIV.  In an ideal world where editors immediately catch vandalism and issue warnings, then vandals would be blocked after just five attacks of vandalism.  However when a vandal gets reverted without also receiving a warning, then getting the persistent vandal blocked takes that much longer.  While  does nothing about editors who cannot be bothered to leave warnings, it is a fast, friendly, and informative way to bring up to speed those editors who are new to the vandal fighting process.  --Kralizec! (talk) 01:22, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|uw-warn}} 

message: The wording of the Uw-bio template is inconsistent in a problematic way.  The template is named adding unreferenced controversial information about living persons, but essential wording that describes the offending edit varies, depending on the level warning that is being used.  The difference is that level one and level three warnings are faithful to the name of the template and chide addition of any unreferenced, controversial biographical information, while level two and level four warnings state that such information should not be added to articles about living people.  For example, the name of the template suggests that it is appropriate to warn about defamatory edits in an article about a high school, but the wording of the second and fourth level warnings is inapplicable because, although the information may be about a living person, the article itself is not about a living person, but a high school.
I propose that the wording of the second level and fourth level warnings be revised to remove the reference to articles about living people, and instead conform to the name of the template, i.e., addition of controversial information about living persons, no matter the name or subject-matter of the article.  Best ► DRTïllberġ ◄Talk 20:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The level four warning looks OK, but I agree with you about the level 2 warning.--Kubigula (talk) 20:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I adjusted the language of the level 2 per the suggestion.  Thanks.--Kubigula (talk) 01:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistent wording, ''unreferenced controversial information about living persons'' (i.e. [[Template:Uw-biog2|Uw-biog2]]) 

message: Note - following rfc template nowikied, rfc should not be open on archived page. DMcMPO11AAUK/Talk/Contribs 04:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, there is no consensus for either templating or not the regulars.  I'm fairly new, and don't know exactly what I think about the issue yet.  I like templates, they are generally nicely phrased and follow guidelines on proper behavior.  Many are also geared toward new users.  --Rocksanddirt 16:31, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree there is certainly no consensus for the opinion that regulars should not be templated. Until(1 == 2) 16:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it worthwhile to try for enough consensus to call either action a 'guideline'?  --Rocksanddirt 17:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

text: No, I think the idea is best kept in essays, since it is opinion based. Until(1 == 2) 17:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough.  --Rocksanddirt 18:03, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

text: It should not be mentioned in policy while opinion is so divided on the matter, neither way is required, it is really just a stylistic choice. Until(1 == 2) 04:08, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I have not problem mentioning that level 1 contains a welcome message. But there is no point in bringing up an issue in the policy and then saying "we have no consensus". There are also 27 other things we don't have consensus on that we can mention. I say that we leave it out, people can quote the essay in their arguments but it has no place at all in policy. Until(1 == 2) 13:09, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Unit1==2, add info regarding the welcome message on level 1's and that it's the only substantive difference between that and level 2, and leave out the discussion part.  --Rocksanddirt 14:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But it isn't quit the only substantive difference. Level 1 notices explicitly assume that a good-faith erro has been made, level 2 notices make no such assumption. Of course this arguably makes level 2 that much more appropriate for an experienced editor, but it is an additional difference. DES (talk) 16:37, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the second level messages, they are (for the most part) the same  as the first level messages except for the lack of welcoming language. So I disagree that they don't assume good faith. That is simply how they are described. The description can be changed... IPSOS (talk) 03:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The tone of the level 2 warnings was intended to be slightly different, typically by referencing (and linking to) the policy on vandalism.  As I look through the UTM page, it occurs to me that the "uw" templates, with some exceptions, are the ones most likely to be inappropriate, IMO, to leave on a "regular" editor's talk page.  Perhaps we can convert all warnings to uw and non-uw, and use this as a rough guideline on which ones are not designed to be used in connection with long term editors.--Kubigula (talk) 17:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: This is a design flaw that has been built in from the beginning of the uw_ system: There was never any agreement on what the levels actually are supposed to mean. See here for an attempt to systematize this early on, which unfortunately didn't catch on. Maybe it's a better time for it now that people are beginning to realize what a mess it is. — Sebastian 16:29, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

text: It's not special treatment, it's respect. Regular, full-time editors of this site don't like to see automated templates when they have been an editor here for over a couple of years or so. The reason it is offensive is because established editors know what they are doing and giving them the standarized "you have been warned" message is either trolling or given by someone they are in a dispute with. Instead of creating some formal guideline on it, I suggest people do what I do and just revert the smart ass who sent you the message and tell them exactly what you were doing. If that doesn't work go to the next step in dispute resolution. — Moe ε 09:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. This is precisely the sort of arrogant attitude I was hoping to highlight.Mighty Antar 12:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That kind of arrogant kind of attitude underminding Wikipedia editors to begin with is exactly what I was talking about. — Moe ε 16:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, let's calm down a bit with this. Whichever way this debate goes, it's unlikely to affect either of you. Even if it does, it's still good to keep civil on the matter. My opinion on this is that there are too many vandals to write each of them a personalised message. That's where the templates come in. Vandals are unlikely to last long enough to become regulars, so why use a template for vandals on a regular user? In fact, they'd probably find it a bit patronising (I know I would). By the way, just because I agree with Moe's view doesn't mean I agree with his treatment of the situation. CarrotMan 19:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So what was exactly was my treatment of the situation? If someone comes to my talk page and they template me about my supposed "incivilty", "vandalism", or "violation" of image policies, that need tagging, I'm going to revert them. I'm not going to sit there and analyze or reflect on something I don't do. In fact, no regular editor of this encyclopedia should have to deal with the nonsense use of the templates. Templates are meant for users who are unfamiliar with policies and guidelines. As an editor of this site for over two years, templating me is patronizing and shows a deep lack of respect for me. If someone has an issue with what I do here, they can approach me and not be a wimp take the easy template-related way out of it. This also goes for any other situation like 3RR, or any other template. I'm aware of everything I do here, and baiting me to be incivil with template warnings shouldn't be happening. — Moe ε 14:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I also don't consider it "special treatment".  The fact is that the vast majority of the UTM templates were designed for communication with new users.  We can't expect new users to be familiar with the myriad of WP policies and guidelines, so the templates serve as useful ways to point new editors to pertinent policies.  We do, however, expect regular editors to be generally familiar with the basic policies and guidelines.  Thus, if you have a concern with a regular editor, it's likely to be a more complicated situation that can't be addressed with a canned template.--Kubigula (talk) 02:32, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I can intellectually agree with Kubigula, I still feel that a couple of the templates (most notably  and ) are valid for use on regulars ... especially since "regulars" has such a nebulous definition.  --Kralizec! (talk) 12:51, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely true.  Most of the templates on UTM are designed to be used with new editors, but a significant portion are appropriate for new users or regulars.  If this keeps coming up, perhaps we should make an effort to delineate which are designed for new users.--Kubigula (talk) 17:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

text: You know, I agree with the first poster above. I don't agree with this objection to regulars being templated.  Some templates may be for users unfamiliar with Wikipedia, and those wouldn't be appropriate for regulars in most cases, but that's not their only purpose.  Notification templates, for example are clearly not meant to do anything but save an editor time.  Like with a page being put up for deletion. Or, as I've noticed sometimes, people thanking folks for participation in an Request for Adminship.  I doubt anybody really objects to that, and if they do, I'm sure folks would just say they're the ones being crotchety.  Now where I see the problem is with warnings.  And that's possibly because somebody did something wrong.  Maybe it's the person who got templated, maybe it's the person doing the templating.  How do we know?  It'll depend on the circumstances, but I think it's just as likely for somebody to get offended if you send them a personal message rather than a template.  I know a lot of people have made personal attacks or made uncivil comments and are completely unable to recognize it.  The fact is, if you're offended by somebody expressing a concern about your behavior, it is best to reflect on it, and take a good honest look at your actions.  It may be you've done nothing wrong. I know I've faced my share of frivolous accusations from folks who would rather attack me than stick to the content(and none of them ever used a template as far as I can recall), but it seems excessive to me to reject the use of templates at all.  If there's a problem, it's more in the particulars than the general situation.  So far as it goes though, I don't see any harm in distinguishing templates based on how appropriate they are for regulars versus new users.  FrozenPurpleCube 03:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The question here is, how often does a regular editor make a mistake? Not very often. When you find that a regular has made a slip-up, it's not as though there's a million other regulars who are also churning out mistakes by the dozen. With that in mind, why is it so essential to just slap a template on their talk page and surf off in search of any other accidents? Major mistakes by regulars are fairly rare (at least, that's what I would have thought), so why rush? And if it's just a minor mistake, why tell them at all? Just correct it and leave it at that. If everyone told everyone that they'd corrected their spelling/grammar/punctuation mistake, we'd still be no more than the internet equivalent of an explanatory pamphlet. Templates are for those who need to crack down on vandals in a hurry, not for notifying regulars of a (probably) one-off mistake. CarrotMan 06:30, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Don't template the regulars" 

message: I've looked through the warnings, and in most cases the only difference between level1 and level2 warnings is the inclusion of welcome messages in level1. Therefore I suggest two changes:
# change the wording distinguishing level1 and level2. Both assume good faith, but level1 includes a welcome message.
# add a section that there is no consensus about templating regulars with links to WP:DTTR and WP:TTR. Note that some regulars find the welcoming tone of level1 messages condescending, and recommend that if the choice is made to template a regular, it might be a good idea to skip level1 and go directly to the level2 message, which is shorter, neutral, and assumes good faith. 
In cases where there is more of a difference between l1 and l2, the messages should be changed to make them appropriate for a first warning for regulars. IPSOS (talk) 13:05, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have not problem mentioning that level 1 contains a welcome message. But there is no point in bringing up an issue in the policy and then saying "we have no consensus". There are also 27 other things we don't have consensus on that we can mention. I say that we leave it out, people can quote the essay in their arguments but it has no place at all in policy. Until(1 == 2) 13:09, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Unit1==2, add info regarding the welcome message on level 1's and that it's the only substantive difference between that and level 2, and leave out the discussion part.  --Rocksanddirt 14:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But it isn't quit the only substantive difference. Level 1 notices explicitly assume that a good-faith erro has been made, level 2 notices make no such assumption. Of course this arguably makes level 2 that much more appropriate for an experienced editor, but it is an additional difference. DES (talk) 16:37, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the second level messages, they are (for the most part) the same  as the first level messages except for the lack of welcoming language. So I disagree that they don't assume good faith. That is simply how they are described. The description can be changed... IPSOS (talk) 03:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The tone of the level 2 warnings was intended to be slightly different, typically by referencing (and linking to) the policy on vandalism.  As I look through the UTM page, it occurs to me that the "uw" templates, with some exceptions, are the ones most likely to be inappropriate, IMO, to leave on a "regular" editor's talk page.  Perhaps we can convert all warnings to uw and non-uw, and use this as a rough guideline on which ones are not designed to be used in connection with long term editors.--Kubigula (talk) 17:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: This is a design flaw that has been built in from the beginning of the uw_ system: There was never any agreement on what the levels actually are supposed to mean. See here for an attempt to systematize this early on, which unfortunately didn't catch on. Maybe it's a better time for it now that people are beginning to realize what a mess it is. — Sebastian 16:29, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed changes

message: Why on earth should 'regulars' receive special treatment? Who defines regular? I believe the 'Welcome to Wikipedia' phrase should serve as a useful reminder to anyone who may consider themselves slightly above the status of new or irregular editors that in all aspects of this particular project, they are not. If they consider the use of templates offensive, they really need to stop and consider why they have recieved what I hope 'regular' editors consider a measured, sensible response to whatever it is they have done. Welcome to Wikipedia! Mighty Antar 20:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not special treatment, it's respect. Regular, full-time editors of this site don't like to see automated templates when they have been an editor here for over a couple of years or so. The reason it is offensive is because established editors know what they are doing and giving them the standarized "you have been warned" message is either trolling or given by someone they are in a dispute with. Instead of creating some formal guideline on it, I suggest people do what I do and just revert the smart ass who sent you the message and tell them exactly what you were doing. If that doesn't work go to the next step in dispute resolution. — Moe ε 09:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. This is precisely the sort of arrogant attitude I was hoping to highlight.Mighty Antar 12:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That kind of arrogant kind of attitude underminding Wikipedia editors to begin with is exactly what I was talking about. — Moe ε 16:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, let's calm down a bit with this. Whichever way this debate goes, it's unlikely to affect either of you. Even if it does, it's still good to keep civil on the matter. My opinion on this is that there are too many vandals to write each of them a personalised message. That's where the templates come in. Vandals are unlikely to last long enough to become regulars, so why use a template for vandals on a regular user? In fact, they'd probably find it a bit patronising (I know I would). By the way, just because I agree with Moe's view doesn't mean I agree with his treatment of the situation. CarrotMan 19:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So what was exactly was my treatment of the situation? If someone comes to my talk page and they template me about my supposed "incivilty", "vandalism", or "violation" of image policies, that need tagging, I'm going to revert them. I'm not going to sit there and analyze or reflect on something I don't do. In fact, no regular editor of this encyclopedia should have to deal with the nonsense use of the templates. Templates are meant for users who are unfamiliar with policies and guidelines. As an editor of this site for over two years, templating me is patronizing and shows a deep lack of respect for me. If someone has an issue with what I do here, they can approach me and not be a wimp take the easy template-related way out of it. This also goes for any other situation like 3RR, or any other template. I'm aware of everything I do here, and baiting me to be incivil with template warnings shouldn't be happening. — Moe ε 14:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I also don't consider it "special treatment".  The fact is that the vast majority of the UTM templates were designed for communication with new users.  We can't expect new users to be familiar with the myriad of WP policies and guidelines, so the templates serve as useful ways to point new editors to pertinent policies.  We do, however, expect regular editors to be generally familiar with the basic policies and guidelines.  Thus, if you have a concern with a regular editor, it's likely to be a more complicated situation that can't be addressed with a canned template.--Kubigula (talk) 02:32, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I can intellectually agree with Kubigula, I still feel that a couple of the templates (most notably  and ) are valid for use on regulars ... especially since "regulars" has such a nebulous definition.  --Kralizec! (talk) 12:51, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely true.  Most of the templates on UTM are designed to be used with new editors, but a significant portion are appropriate for new users or regulars.  If this keeps coming up, perhaps we should make an effort to delineate which are designed for new users.--Kubigula (talk) 17:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

text: You know, I agree with the first poster above. I don't agree with this objection to regulars being templated.  Some templates may be for users unfamiliar with Wikipedia, and those wouldn't be appropriate for regulars in most cases, but that's not their only purpose.  Notification templates, for example are clearly not meant to do anything but save an editor time.  Like with a page being put up for deletion. Or, as I've noticed sometimes, people thanking folks for participation in an Request for Adminship.  I doubt anybody really objects to that, and if they do, I'm sure folks would just say they're the ones being crotchety.  Now where I see the problem is with warnings.  And that's possibly because somebody did something wrong.  Maybe it's the person who got templated, maybe it's the person doing the templating.  How do we know?  It'll depend on the circumstances, but I think it's just as likely for somebody to get offended if you send them a personal message rather than a template.  I know a lot of people have made personal attacks or made uncivil comments and are completely unable to recognize it.  The fact is, if you're offended by somebody expressing a concern about your behavior, it is best to reflect on it, and take a good honest look at your actions.  It may be you've done nothing wrong. I know I've faced my share of frivolous accusations from folks who would rather attack me than stick to the content(and none of them ever used a template as far as I can recall), but it seems excessive to me to reject the use of templates at all.  If there's a problem, it's more in the particulars than the general situation.  So far as it goes though, I don't see any harm in distinguishing templates based on how appropriate they are for regulars versus new users.  FrozenPurpleCube 03:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed changes?

message: If you use templates for some editors and not for others in identical circumstances, how is it anything other than special treatment? Templates are warnings, but they also convey standardised messages. They are not a blot on status or some sort of non-redeemable demerit. How can their use on anyone be defended if they are considered to be so patronising?
 
Level 1 UTM Templates should offer a straightforward way of telling someone they have made a mistake. They should help avoid petty incivilities, they should make clear the fault, point to better practice and be phrased in such a way that whether this is your first edit or your ten thousandth, you recognise not that this is not some sort of damnation of all your efforts on Wikipedia, but that you have simply made a mistake.
Editors are human beings and not robots. Familiarity with policies and guidelines may mean that they produce a vast amount of really great work, but this does not exclude them from making mistakes.
Perhaps the point to consider is, if you are unable to tolerate the minor criticism implicit in a Level 1 template, should they really be used for anything other than straightforward blatant vandalisim? Mighty Antar 23:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The question here is, how often does a regular editor make a mistake? Not very often. When you find that a regular has made a slip-up, it's not as though there's a million other regulars who are also churning out mistakes by the dozen. With that in mind, why is it so essential to just slap a template on their talk page and surf off in search of any other accidents? Major mistakes by regulars are fairly rare (at least, that's what I would have thought), so why rush? And if it's just a minor mistake, why tell them at all? Just correct it and leave it at that. If everyone told everyone that they'd corrected their spelling/grammar/punctuation mistake, we'd still be no more than the internet equivalent of an explanatory pamphlet. Templates are for those who need to crack down on vandals in a hurry, not for notifying regulars of a (probably) one-off mistake. CarrotMan 06:30, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: If UTM templates were only applicable to issues of straightforward vandalism, then this debate would not be taking place.

message: Like in , it doesn't work properly. --Addict 2006 22:53, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you should be more specific,  seems to work fine to me. Anomie 14:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Me too.--Kubigula (talk) 15:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ditto for me .  --Kralizec! (talk) 16:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  There seems to be something wrong with piping the article a person edited in after using subst 

message: To me, both Uw-bv and Uw-vandalism4im seem to accomplish the same task. They both give the vandal some sort of final warning (since uw-bv is single-issue and an editor is unlikely warn again after issuing Uw-vandalism4im) and let the vandal/personal attacker/etc. know that he/she will be blocked if he/she keeps vandalizing. Even though  is not part of the single-issue user warning set, I believe the template fits that criteria because it's an only warning which bypasses the usual set of four vandalism warning templates. To me, it looks like  is just a wordy version of uw-vandalism4im with a slightly friendier intro "Welcome to Wikipedia". I think the content in uw-bv should be merged into Uw-vandalism4im. Comments? Hydrogen Iodide  (HI!) 01:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uw-bv and Uw-vandalism4im 

message: In trying to find out what could be done about an editor who blanks their own talk page to hide recently-issued vandalism warnings, I discovered the  template.  It seems to me that this belongs in this article (it is certainly a template intended for the "User talk" namespace) but I'm not sure where.  Any suggestions?  Even though blanking your own talk page is not technically considered vandalism it is still frowned upon, and I think it would be appropriate to add it to Single level warnings.  Would like to hear feedback from others. Tim Pierce 02:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, my understanding is that there is no consensus that blanking your talk page is against any sort of rule. I think it should be, but I don't think it is that way. ((1 == 2) ? (('Stop') : ('Go')) 05:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Blanking or defacing someone else's talk page is vandalism, but not your own.  See the WikiProject User Warnings FAQ for background. Tim Pierce 05:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  adding "blankown" template? 

message: Based on several conversations here and at WT:UW, I am proposing two templates for addition to the UTM page.  First, a warning template for misuse of blocking or warning templates - proposed text available here.  Second, a warning template for inaccurate or inappropriate edit summaries - proposed text available here.  They are both designed to be usable as level one/AGF warnings, though neither has the "welcome to Wikipedia" language - so they can be used after another message or warning.
I know there is some concern about template creep, or excessive numbers of warning templates, and I share that concern to a degree.  However, there is a value in having specific templates available for situations where a more generic warning might not be sufficient to clarify the editing concern.  I believe these templates would be useful additions to UTM, and there have been several requests for them.--Kubigula (talk) 19:48, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't mind the idea of a template for edit summaries. However, I don't see the need for a template for improper warnings. If the warnings are used to vandalise, then use the uw-vandalism series on the user who falsely warned. If the warning was left in error, but in good faith, a friendly note works well. My 2 cents. Flyguy649 talk contribs 20:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I felt the same way initially, but there was a conversation on the uw talk page that ultimately swayed me to thinking the template could be useful.--Kubigula (talk) 23:08, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that the template for edit summaries should include "deceptive" somewhere in there. Some vandals learn to put "rv" or "spelling" in their ES to avoid suspicion. bibliomaniac15 Two years of trouble and general madness 21:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand.  However, if you include the word "deceptive", the template's not really useable as a level one AGF warning.  My own feeling is that it's worth having as a single use template, with follow-up by the regular vandalism warnings - we've made it clear to the vandal that we are on to his or her trick.--Kubigula (talk) 03:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is also discussion about inappropriate edit summaries here. Hydrogen Iodide 21:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two proposed templates