Talk:Yigal Amir

message: I'm not sure if the section saying:
"Amir has never expressed regret for his act of murder. Amir is viewed by many in Israel as a hero for his act particularly amongst the Right wing but is hated by the Left who worshipped Rabin as an idol. Rabin is seen by many as being responsible for the deaths of 1200 Israelis through the Oslo accords that gave the PLO terrorist organisation both guns and territory. Rabin is also remebered for his younger days when as commander of the Palmach (underground fighters) he ordered his men to fire at the Irgun ship the Altalena, that killed 11 Jewish fighters from the Irgun."
is a totally balanced view.  It seems to imply that Rabin was despised by all but a small fantical following.  Many viewed him as an only hope for peace in the middle east.  Further more the dividing up of "the left", and "the right" is really a fair way to state things.  Finally the writer makes "the left", sound unreasonable, for hating a murderer. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.206.116.123 (talk • contribs) 01:17, 25 May 2004  (UTC)
:For what it's worth, Bernard Avishai's new book, The Hebrew Republic (to appear from Harcourt in the spring of 2008), says in a discussion of increasing fundamentalist ultra-Orthodoxy in Israel (on p. 97), that "About a third of Israeli Jews would have Yitzhak Rabin's assassin, Yigal Amir, pardoned." He doesn't cite a source for this specifically, but he does cite several polls elsewhere in the discussion. (I'm presently copyediting and indexing the book.) --Michael K. Smith (talk) 17:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Views in Israel

message: The current text says In January 2004, the Israel Prisons Authority announced that it would prohibit Amir from marrying in jail, despite a law permitting all prisoners to wed and have children. During April 2004, the Tel Aviv District Court reviewed the decision regarding a request by Yigal Amir to get married in prison. The Israeli prison authorities rejected the Amir-Trembovler requests to marry and to have conjugal visits, although this right is normally given to prisoners held in Israel's jail system.
First: I do not understand the point of the last sentence, it just repeats the first sentence. 
Second: What was the outcome of the district court's review?  As there is still a controversy, I assume that the district court upheld the prison authorities' decision, i.e., rejected the Amir-Trembovler request? 
--Aleph4 17:15, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coniugal visits?  

message: Words from David Cohen- Rutstein.
I actually know the Amir family. Geula Amir, Yigal's mom really well. As well as Barry Chamish really well.  I am the one who built www.BarryChamish.com and www.YigalAmir.com.   In fact, all email from both sites go to me. Email from Barry's site gets forwarded to Barry as well.  
The first month of Yigal Amir's arrest, Yigal denied doing the murder.  After some friendly persuasion he was all into blaming the Rabbis and admitting everything. I am not sure what was discussed, money and threats. But that is what happened. Yigal will never show remorse because he did not do the murder.  The evidence is really overwhelming. The Kempler video of the murder is now online and even in that video you can see weird things happenning. Look at the back passenger door of the limo close from the inside.  There was a fourth person in that limo.  Israeli TV showed the 10 minute video of the murder, "the Kempler video", for one week in 1996, and has not shown the video since.  In fact Yigal played an exaggerated non-defense in which he seemed to want to get convicted.  This exagerated desire to be convicted seems weird and will cause Yigal eventually to be freed because anybody who studies the case realizes that Yigal shot blanks.   
As well, Yigal Amir is not viewed as a hero by anyone.  Most right wingers realize that Yigal did not murder Rabin. Barry Chamish has been giving lectures in Israel for years.  Almost every right winger in Israel has heard of Barry. The left wingers are different.  There is a complete censor on this subject in the entire Israel media. Since there is a big inclination for left winger to be "happy" that a religous Jew did a murder, the left wingers are less likely to have read one of the conspiracy books or heard Barry's lecture.  As well left wingers get their information from TV and newspapers. Rabin conspiracy does not appear on these news vehicles.  Right wingers watch less TV, read less newspapers and are less likely to believe what they see in those media anyways.  It may seem that right wingers are "idiots" for not following the news.  Right wingers in Israel is another word for religous Jews or those closer to the Jewish religous observance.  The religous Jew studies Torah and study of Torah takes alot of time.   End of comments by David Cohen- Rutstein -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.132.186.183 (talk • contribs) 10:29, 16 July 2005  (UTC)
A pile of propaganda-conspiracy-theory half-fact
That's what I can say about the text above by David Cohen - except for the final paragraph.
The facts:
On November 4th, 1995 Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir. Fact.
Yigal Amir fired three hollow-point bullets, two hit PM Rabin and one hit a bodyguard. Fact.
Yigal Amir is a right-wing extremist. Fact.
Yigal Amir is currently in prison for the awful crime he made against Yitzhak Rabin, against The State of Israel and against Democracy. By assassinating Rabin he hoped to stop the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians.
I can sadly say he probably succeeded. Rabin was replaced by the right-wing Benjamin Netanyahu, and the rest is history, full of blood and tears.
This preposterous conspiracy theory is well-known in Israel, and had its share of media coverage, in contradiction to what Mr. Cohen says. Israeli news media is free and uncensored, it is STILL a democracy. Most of the Israeli public, left-wingers and right-wingers, religious people and others, heard it and understood it's simply a bunch of lies. It is even much less accepted than the "shooter on the grassy knoll" theory on the JFK murder. I can only explain its existence as the extreme-right-wing's version of psychological repression and projection.
Procedure 20:04, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A reaction in English to Barry Chalamish/David Cohen's latest claims and actions can be found at this page of the Dutch Wikipedia. gidonb 00:28, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Was later on moved to the archive of that page. gidonb 23:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed; this is covered in WP:NPOV under "extreme minority views". Jayjg (talk) 19:46, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Kempler video]]

message: The article states that "one of Raviv's closest supporters was Amir who was groomed him into a group leader," and, while I presume that the author intended to write "was Amir who had groomed him," the article should obviously be updated by someone who has some understanding of the specifics of this relationship.
:Neither is correct. But, thank you for drawing attention to this point! gidonb 21:53, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Background

message: for the following reasons: 1. part of marriage, 2. POV, 3. no sources cited, 4. current event. 5. not updated because Amir seems not to be at hunger strike right now. gidonb 14:04, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved from article

message: I don't think Yigal was a computer science student, I've never heard about it and there is no source for this on Israeli press. He was only a law student. --Haham hanuka 18:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have read this in several articles. I provided one source and can provide many more. It seems as if his major was law and his minor was Computer Science, but I have not seen a precise breakdown of his coursework. That would also for us be an overkill. gidonb 19:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You cannot learn law and computer science together in Bar Ilan. --Haham hanuka 19:11, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I earlier added another bio of Amir that claims the same. This one details that Amir had an excelling 90 out of 100 average in CS, but a low average in law. There are many more references to his CS studies, also in Hebrew. gidonb 20:27, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Computer Science student 

message: #--Haham hanuka 18:41, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Amir supporters sites on the top

message: # Amir is hardly a rock star, the most NPOV descriptions of this person and his actions are provided by the press and the courts, not by his brother, mother or spouse. Other criminals seem not to have supporter sites before NPOV descriptions of their actions. The websites are a curiosity, I would keep them in, but at the bottom. gidonb 16:16, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Amir supporters sites at the bottom

message: # ⌠Yellow up⌡ 17:23, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Delete websites by Amir supporters

message: this is PoV and might be copy vio, pls do not resore. --Haham hanuka 19:28, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The text is brought as a quote and therefor it is irrelevant if it is POV or not. It is very helpful in understanding the crime and the verdict. Please do not delete again without first polling your collegues. gidonb 19:31, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: no it is a propaganda. what can we learn from this about Amir or a the assassin? none. --Haham hanuka 19:34, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We learn from this particular section that Amir acted from conviction, took pride in his action, that he showed no remorse also after the murder and that the court took this point very seriously. gidonb 19:38, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The quote belongs in the article; it's important in understanding the subject of the article, and a paraphrase would not be appropriate. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I've removed to quote 

message: According to my sources he was born in 1971, we should check it. --Haham hanuka 09:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: my mistake. --Haham hanuka 17:38, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1970 or 1971 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:17, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: With the infobox, pictures and references the next rating step should be considered. gidonb (talk) 23:46, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The pictures seem not to have been legal. Start will do for now. gidonb (talk) 14:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: added several sentences  which I removed because they seem to be POV (or nonsense) to me, such as a characterisation of Dror Adani as "rabidly racist",  or the claim that the "Attorney General had ordered the Interior Ministry to register Amir and Larissa sexual deviants". 
--Austrian (talk) 09:34, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for noticing and taking immediate action! gidonb (talk) 04:59, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  rabidly racist 

message: It seems that his wife's biography is totally non-notable except for her marriage to Amir. Thoughts on merging?--TM 18:13, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: The text claimed that Amir was friends "with Avishai Raviv, to whom he revealed his plan to kill Rabin. While Raviv posed as a right-wing radical, he was working for the Shabak, the Israeli secret service." It cites this article from Ha'aretz. But the Ha'aretz article doesn't mention Raviv, or Shabak. Perhaps because I'm reading this in the U.S., I'm seeing a different version of the article. Or, maybe the article has been edited since its publication and access.  But the cite, as I see it, doesn't support the claim, so I removed the cite. - Tim1965 (talk) 12:54, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raviv and Shabak 

message: Is there a reason why the first sentence is phrased so tepidly? Is there a legal, political, or philosophical argument against simply saying he "assassinated Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin"? MatthewBurton (talk) 00:38, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "responsible for the assassination of"? 

message: Stating, via category, that an individual is in category - "Jewish religious terrorism" - requires iron clad sourcing. At the moment - the article doesn't even mention terrorism, nor does it make clear that there was a religious motivation (the main motivation, in any event, would seem to be nationalist).Icewhiz (talk) 14:12, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone who proclaimed himself that he was acting on orders from God wasn't religiously motivated? Oh yeah. (Anyway, people like Amir don't see a distinction between religious and nationalist motivation because their nationalism derives from their religion. You know that. He declared during his trial that he "acted according to din rodef"; Ami Pedahzur and Arie Perliger, Jewish Terrorism [that word again!] in Israel, p107.) Someone who is listed in every book and academic article on Jewish terrorism isn't known as a terrorist? Good one. BLP violation? Bullshit. If there isn't sufficient sourcing, add some instead of making excuses for removing something that you know perfectly well to be true and easily sourcable. Zerotalk 16:07, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Then this should be sourced in the body, prior to adding a category. I will note that some sources do not refer to him as a terrorist - we would have to figure out the balance here. As for din rodef - as I am sure you know, much has been made of this by those less versed in the subject matter - however rodef itself is merely a justifiable homocide defense in Jewish jurisprudence (with the classicial application being killing someone who is chasing (rodef) someone else attempting to kill him) - it is a homocide defense with parallels in many other legal systems. What is relevant is why Rabin was considered a rodef by Amir and whether such consideration was religiously or nationally motivated - per secondary sources analyzing this.Icewhiz (talk) 19:09, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, you are wrong. The interpretation of din rodef adopted by Amir both according to himself and according to his colleagues is that it is a command, not merely an allowance. That is the traditional understanding too; at least three of the 613 mitzvot are relevant to it. Note #489 in particular (our numbering), which says that one must not stand idly by, not just that one is allowed to not stand idly by. Zerotalk 05:11, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

text:  "As Amir would state, 'I acted alone on God's orders, and I have no regrets'. He continued, 'I know Jewish law and din rodef means that if you have tried everything else and nothing works, then you have to kill him'. That was Amir's explanation to the court..." (Efraim Ben‐Zadok (2001) State‐religion relations in Israel: The subtle issue underlying the Rabin assassination, Israel Affairs, 8:1-2, 139-145.) Zerotalk 05:54, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  "I acted alone on God's orders" - is much more convincing in this regard than din rodef.Icewhiz (talk) 08:10, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  BLP vio 

message: This is a more recent statement from Amir, regarding having no remorse for the murder. 
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/255564 Ip says: Work Better yes. (talk) 15:05, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update for ref. N°6 

message: The article states that Bar Ilan is a religious university, however, although Bar Ilan caters to the religious community, there is no mandatory participation in any religious class or program, as such, it has a diverse student body and should not be considered a religious university.
 
Source:
https://biuinternational.com/religious-life-on-campus/#:~:text=Although%20Bar-Ilan%20University%20is,%2C%20spiritual%20traditions%2C%20and%20cultures. מיכאל אליהו ק (talk) 23:39, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Done ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 18:53, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misinformation regarding Bar Ilan University 

message: I am not familiar with Israeli law, so cannot untangle this myself. The article states that "In Israel, a sentence of life imprisonment is usually reduced to a period of 20–30 years by the president". Later we have this sentence: "They noted that several Palestinians serving multiple life terms for crimes such as murder have been permitted to marry in prison."
So which is it? Is there a distinction, that *Israeli* citizens are customarily immune to life sentences, but *Palestinians* kidnapped by Israel are not? 69.113.166.178 (talk) 23:10, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflicting information in article regarding life sentences in Israel 

message: It's specially for him, not especially for him. See article 2A02:F6E:4B03:0:195:9111:8737:A6DE (talk) 19:57, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Although both words are arguable, I think "specially" is better. The intent in this sentence is not "in a greater extent than normal" but "for him alone". Zerotalk 07:01, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 November 2022 

message: Netanyahu is now the current pm but it says former pm The ultimate editorxyzyazz (talk) 07:57, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Netanyahu not former pm 

message: How can it be that they had a conjugal visit on October 24th, 2006 and his child was born on October 28th, 2007 ? As far as I know, human pregnancy is 9 months ... with all the margins, more than 10 months between visit and birth seem unrealistic to me. 78.48.170.207 (talk) 19:17, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length of pregnancy 

message: The caption beneath Amir's photo misspells Yitzhak as "Yizhak", and as a result the Wikilink is not correct either (it redirects to the correct page, however). 37.169.1.34 (talk) 20:07, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: and adjusted the links as well. Thanks! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 00:50, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 November 2023