Talk:Poaceae

message: I always hate to be contrary, but why did you (UtherSRG) reformat the taxobox in a way that is inconsistent with all the other taxoboxes at Wikipedia and call it an "update" ? The format you used is (IMHO) not at all an improvement and can cause difficulty to follow in many situation since you are essentially removing centering from the title boxes and centering the text/list boxes.  This approach will not work without considerable effort on taxoboxes with long or complex listings of taxa. Also, it is generally standard practice to center things like titles and pictures and not center following text; or not center anything. - Marshman 18:48, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Grasses have intercalary meristems in their leaves and culms that produce new tissues at the base of blades or internodes.--Curtis Clark 01:07, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: What type of grass is found in parks and lawns? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kisch (talk • contribs) .
:It depends on what part of the world you are talking about. Many different species are used.--Curtis Clark 14:40, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.--Curtis Clark 03:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lawn grass 

message: Would someone familiar with the details of both American and British English please explicate the typically confusing differences in terminology.
Is "corn" a British equivalent to "cereal"? Make "maize" into "maize (American English corn). Where does the word "grain" stand in relation to "corn"/"cereal".
I was taught (in England) that, at one time, "corn" simply meant the primary grain used for flour production. In England, this was wheat, in parts of Scotland, it was rye, and in much of the Americas it was maize. As North American usage became more prevalent, the interpretation of corn as meaning maize has become more common. 
"Cereal grasses" is a useful but vague phrase. It generally refers to the members of the wheatgrass tribe (Triticeae) that are used for baking and flour production - wheats, rye, and barley. I don't think it is usually used to refer to corn/maize, rice, or teff - or the other grasses that are used for baking in other parts of the world - but that could be simply because I have only worked in parts of the world where the primary flour-producing grasses are the wheatgrasses. "Cereal" can also be used to refer to non-grasses that are used for flour - buckwheat etc.  It is a vague but useful word.  
Grain generally means a dry, starchy seed or fruit that one grinds to make flour. Technically, in grasses, this would be the fruit (a caryopsis) which is inseparable from the seed. It is also sometimes used to refer to dry fruits/seeds of plants, such as buckwheat, that are not grasses.  
In reference to grasses: grain is a much easier term than caryopsis; fruit, a logical alternative, conjures up images of fleshy things like apricots, plums, and oranges; seed is probably not used simply because people tend to think of seeds as things that are inside something else - and it is impossible to get the seed out of a grass grain.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mary Barkworth (talk • contribs) 13:21, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Correction: There is no tradition of rye cultivation in Scotland. The most important cereal crops in Scotland are barley, wheat and oats in that order.Plantsurfer 15:40, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether rye is grown in Scotland or not, all four of these are in the Pooideae subfamily of Poaceae, and are therefore grasses. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:06, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, obviously. My point was to correct the error in the previous statement which stated falsely that rye was the primary grain used for flour production in Scotland. Plantsurfer 21:40, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cereals, corn(s), maize 

message: I dissected a wheat spike and made the three pictures Spica_spiculae.pgn, Anatomia.png and Spicula_dissecta.png that are in the Commons. They were SVGs, but I couldn't upload them properly and so I converted them to PNGs. I think that a more detailed desciption of the peculiar flower/fruit of Poaceae would be very useful, especially if presented with pictures of a real spike (not schemes). I could do it, but unfortunately I don't know the nomenclature in the english language (and so I cannot even translate the notes in the images), can someone help me? i need to know:
*The name of the two bracts that protect the spiklets (in italian called glume)
*The name of each of the two bracts protecting each flower, internal and esternal (in italian called glumetta interna and glumetta esterna)
Have a look at the pictures, any help is welcome. Aelwyn 17:15, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Diagrams

message: What are "true grasses"? Please cleanup. FrummerThanThou 04:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Confusing lead

message: Has anyone heard that the genus Zea was moved to Zaeceae?  I was told this, but I'm having trouble confirming it.  All accounts of Zeaceae that I can find show it as a synonym for Poaceae.   ++ Arx Fortis 21:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zeaceae? 

message: Specific type of lawn grass in certain areas of the world needs to be mentioned Complex-Algorithm-Interval 20:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be a long list, I suspect. I just finished mowing mine, which is a mix of Cynodon dactylon, Stenotaphrum secundatum, and Festuca arundinacea, with a bit of Digitaria sanguinalis and Bromus diandrus as weeds, and there are a number of other coomon lawn species used in the region (southern California). It might even warrant a separate article, List of lawn grasses.--Curtis Clark 23:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lawn Grass

message: In the "Grass and society" section it is mentioned that grasses "have been used to make paper since at least as early as 2400 B.C."
Paper is generally acknowledged to have been invented in the 2nd century in China.
Papyrus, on the other hand, has indeed been around since the 3rd millenium BC, but Cyperus papyrus belongs to the cyperaceae family, not the poaceae.
Would it be ok to edit the date and say 2nd century instead of 2400BC?
There is I think another issue with beer. The section says "Also, the primary ingredient of beer is usually barley or wheat, both grasses that have been used for this purpose for over 1000 years" but beer based on malted barley has been around for much, much longer than that (around the 3rd millenium BC if the wiki article on the history of beer is to be believed). So I would suggest changing the date to that.  Julienvr (talk) 23:02, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grass and society section: erroneous dates? 

message: I've added a "citation needed" to the description of the "most recent classification" of Poaceae. Which classification is this? For instance, wikipedia is listing Aristida in tribe Aristideae of subfamily Arundinoideae... I've done a brief literature search, and am not coming up with any studies that suggest this classification. Family-wide phylogenies (e.g., that of the Grass Phylogeny Working Group) suggest that this classification is polyphyletic (Danthonioideae & Chloridoideae would also have to be included in Arundinoideae to yield a monophyletic subfamily), and recognize Aristida in a separate subfamily Aristidoideae. So, maybe I've missed some of the relevant literature... but, as it is, this page provides a subfamilial classification that is both unsourced and, so far as I can tell, inconsistent with phylogenetic results. So, where does this classification come from and what is the justification for using it?Paalexan (talk) 18:38, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, looks like this has been fixed here... although some of the other grass-related pages (e.g., the page for Arundinoideae) are now inconsistent with the subfamilies presented in this page... Paalexan (talk) 22:26, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subfamily classification? 

message: So what happened to Gramineae? All the article says is that Poaceae is also called Gramineae before mentioning later where the name Poaceae comes from. If you're going to tell us where the name Poaceae came from, shouldn't you at least also tell us where the name Gramineae went to? 27.33.121.123 (talk) 08:47, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Gramineae remains a valid alternative name for the grasses. Note that I have corrected  your spelling of the name.  Plantsurfer 21:08, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gramineae 

message: I suggest that we don't need two articles that both cover essentially the same topic, and that any useful material in Grass should be
merged into Poaceae. Plantsurfer 12:00, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Plantsurfer 20:57, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have now merged Grass into Poaceae. I have tried to do this conservatively, but that means work is still required to clean up.  In particular there are many points where citations are needed and some thinning out/compacting would be desirable in places - such as the sections on lawns and sports pitches. I have already had a go at some of this - please, please help to get this article into shape. Plantsurfer 14:02, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for merging. I've created/expanded articles on graminoids and graminid clade. Tylototriton (talk) 15:47, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! Plantsurfer 16:13, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Grass into Poaceae 

message: I notice that glume redirects to chaff, which is not identical in meaning by any stretch.  Other parts of grass flowers, such as palea (botany), lemma (botany) and lodicule have their own short articles.  I am proposing to write up a section in Poaceae describing the structure and nomenclature of the grass inflorescence, and I think it would be appropriate to have the glume redirect reversed and a short article created.  What is the formal procedure for reversing a redirect such as this?  Plantsurfer 16:13, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Plantsurfer Why, just delete the redirect markup (#redirect Chaff) and substitute your text just as for any other new article. No special permission needed!: Noyster  (talk),  20:02, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Glume redirect

message: The article claims that "A multituberculate mammal with "grass-eating" adaptations seems to suggest that grasses were already around at 120 mya", but the source given (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/article-expired/#.V3Bi_zWrlyF) is dead, and does not look credible. The article about multituberculate mammals contains the same claim, with the same source (arguably added by the same editor).
I did a Google search and I can't find any publication that supports this. I suggest to remove the claim from both articles unless a proper source can be found.--Renerpho (talk) 01:21, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evolution is unclear: Source link is dead 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The "turf" section could be condensed into one paragraph in my opinion, I don't think we need details on every sport, especially as there are separate articles. Opinions? Tylototriton (talk) 18:52, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep.Plantsurfer 19:11, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

text: Kind of you to ask. I'm willing to trust your judgment.  Thumb up. 19:49, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Turf section

message: Sheep is the plural and not sheeps which is really anoying  when people say that 2A02:C7D:6A36:9800:B0D6:93B2:9C2C:4ABE (talk) 21:41, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. There's no instance of "sheeps" in the article. NiciVampireHeart 23:41, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2019 

message: This website:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/list-of-plants-in-the-family-Poaceae-2036227 
Could be used as a reference for the opening paragraph of the page.
"With more than 10,000 species, the grass family, Poaceae, is one of the largest families of flowering plants. Its members are monocotyledons and feature leaves with parallel veins; the flowers are usually wind-pollinated. Many grasses are cultivated as ornamental plants and for lawns, and several are staple cereal crops. The following is a list of some of the major genera and species in Poaceae, arranged alphabetically by common name."
quoted from the above website, britannica.com Canteberry (talk) 13:24, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: The lead paragraph of an article usually does not need to be cited for information that is clearly given and sourced in the body of the article, as it is here. The claims in the lead are not controversial and the sources given for the members of the family are definitive academic sources. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2019 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move  --  Mdaniels5757 (talk) 20:36, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Poaceae →  – The WP:COMMONNAME by far for these species is "grass", and I think this is so overwhelmingly obvious and ubiquitous that this should be self evident to most users. Should follow the convention of rose and lupus where the common name is chosen over the overtly academic name. Ortizesp (talk) 12:57, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Anecdotally, I have heard most of these mentioned plants referred to as grasses before. (Wheat is even called wheatgrass in diet drinks and the like.) I can't think of what else they are usually described as, besides the more general "plants". CMD (talk) 15:58, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I have also heard them referred to as grasses. I've had multiple people say to me "Did you know that bamboo is actually a grass?" Rreagan007 (talk) 16:57, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

text:  I think you make a very good point. Members of the Poaceae family can be referred to as 'grasses', but the family cannot simply be called 'grass'. That is an error in the article lede which does need amending. If the article were to be renamed - and I  maintain that it should not - then it should be moved to 'Grasses' and not simply 'Grass'. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:48, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

text: That is a wholly invalid comparison. The Poaceae family contains around 12,000 separate species, collectively referred to as 'grasses'. Can you supply a valid example whereby WP:COMMONNAME has been applied to such a broad taxonomic level to a group of so many totally different species? The example you give of a single species is totally  irrelevant here, and only serves to mislead others who might wish to express their considered opinion. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:48, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Bird. Srnec (talk) 03:12, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

text: Article titles are generally rendered as singular, though Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals) does give in exception for "Articles on groups or classes of specific things", so "Grasses" might be an acceptable alternative. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:53, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

text: – we have an encylopedia precisely because things are not self-evident. Is it "self-evident" that the plants in the image here are grasses? Peter coxhead (talk) 06:54, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: But, as has been pointed out above, neither "grass" nor "grasses" is the English name that corresponds to "Poaceae". If you really want an English name, it should be "grass family". Peter coxhead (talk) 10:13, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

text: There are other sources which say "wheat and grass" and similar, and this is reflected by many oppose votes here, but it is wrong to state definitively that "they are not grass themselves". CMD (talk) 08:34, 2 June 2020 (×UTC)
*Oppose "Grass" is not particularly accurate, as explained above. I would support "grasses" or "grass family", but tenuously. Here, I think accuracy and precision is more important than the common name. The overwhelming majority of plant articles are scientifically titled instead of given their common name title because of the fact that plant common names are much more voluminous and confusing than animal common names. Take a look at Cynodon dactylon, with more than a dozen common names. There are numerous species which are called grasses commonly, but are not in the Poaceae. Thus I think that retaining Poaceae is the most accurate title. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 20:54, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 28 May 2020 

message: I would like to edit this page to indicate that the family Poaceae was “formerly called Gramineae”.  This is to make the information up-to-date and to reduce confusion. AlfalfaMail (talk) 23:55, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. 💜  melecie  talk - 00:46, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2022 

message: It's currently being decided on the best way to link (or unlink) the term "grass" in the context of the surface type of places (like stadiums or runways). The results are going to affect around 1,500 articles. The discussions are:
*Template talk:Infobox venue#Grass as a surface in sports venues
*Template talk:Infobox airport#The meaning of grass.
There's a further discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants#"X is a species of grass", which is concerned with articles about species. – Uanfala (talk) 13:47, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The linking of "grass" 

message: 2601:248:C000:9EB:A93B:D8D5:D4F9:FC78 (talk) 02:27, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Cannolis (talk) 02:59, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

text: ...that being said, the page was semi'd in 2018. Maybe it’s time to unprotect. I asked the protecting admin. TigraanClick here for my talk page ("private" contact) 09:04, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2023