Talk:Fedor Emelianenko/Archive 1

message: I'd like to open the discussion up to the status of the elbow in the TK fight. The video, as I'm sure we've all seen, is inconclusive but looks more like an elbow to me; I'm skeptical of such a deep gash getting opened up by such a glancing strike, save for if it was an elbow or the seam of a glove or something like that, but RINGS gloves did not have external seams. I'd like to hear agreeing/dissenting opinions here in the interests of fairness. As far as a 'citation' goes, it is impossible to prove one way or the other, however I'm not sure the outcome of an MMA fight deserves the kind of 'innocent until proven guilty' burden of proof we'd use for a trial. I'm willing to say the balance of probabilities favours elbow. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.189.249.149 (talk • contribs) .
:Certainly, the article should not state conclusively that the cut was caused by an elbow, unless that assertion can be backed up by a reliable source.  We cannot put our educated guesses into the text, as we cannot publish original research.  Since you are correct that the cause of the cut is unlikely to be proven one way or the other, in my opinion the text should just state that Fedor lost the fight due to a cut, and leave it at that.  SubSeven 03:59, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cite it then. SubSeven 20:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: From http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/index.php?mainpage=news&news_id=106 : "Emelianenko: It's not a good memory. I was cut by Kosaka's illegal strike (elbow)." NonTelly 18:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tsuyoshi Kohsaka Fight

message: Where did this idea about Fedor training BJJ come from?  I've heard nothing of it.  There is also no reference to his competive record in Judo and Combat Sambo.  KingMob 23:30, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
Reference to Fedor's record:  http://www.judoinside.com/uk/?factfile/view/8554  KingMob 23:31, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
KingMob. Since Sambo and Judo borrowed a lot from Jujitsu we can say that when Fedor is practicing a triangle choke, for example, that he is training jj, Judo or Sambo. This is because the move is absolutely the same in all 3 systems.
Judo does borrow a great deal from Jujitsu, but not from Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu because BJJ is, itself, a derivative of Judo. Also, for someone to be training in a specific system, they need to be training in a specific system...if I practice leg locks during BJJ practice, I can not claim to have trained in Sambo, as I've never so much as seen Sambo practiced in person. Fedor has not, to my knowledge, ever trained in BJJ. EmperorFedor 22:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: BJJ, Judo

message: I've recently added an IPA pronunciation of his name to this page. However I am not a native Russian speaker, and am only basing this on what I have heard when native Russians pronounce his name on video. I have never heard a native speaker pronounce the 'o' on the end of his name- it always seems to be dropped. Therefore I have not included it in the IPA pronunciation guide. However, if someone who speaks Russian has something to say about this, we would appreciate any input. Thanks. --causa sui talk 03:01, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed the IPA according to Russian_language#Sounds. The only thing I'm not sure about is that the two unstressed "o":s can be pronounced both "ə" and "ʌ" depending on the situation, i guessed "ə". The "jj" is not a mistake. --Truncated 15:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of his name 

message: If TKD is not going to be included under the arts he studies, then neither should muay thai as none of his coaches know muay thai either.  If you look at any of his matches, he doesn't necessarily use the textbook clinch and knees to the body and thigh.
Good point. I don't think that two weeks of training with Hoost make Fedor a Muay Thai fighter either. However, he also added Ruslan Nagnibida (Nagnibeda, not Nagnibida), a Muay Thai coach from the Tula State University, to his team in late 2005, and Ruslan helped him train for Crocop and Zulu fights... CasualFighter 16:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muay Thai 

message: I am consistently having to revert peacocky and editorial, embellished language from this article. Please review the Wikipedia manual of style and the relevant neutrality and verifiability policies for information about how to write an article. Thanks. --causa sui talk 03:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be nice to be able to insert that he is the consensus #1 heavyweight in the world, although I don't know if a source for that can be found. hateless 21:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did add a section "Honorary titles and appelations" that listed references to Sherdog , mmaweekly and WON calling him #1 a couple of times. However, some anon user keeps deleting the section and leaving his beloved WON reference only. *sigh* CasualFighter 19:13, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Austin, the statement "Fedor has been considered the best heavyweight fighter in the world for the last three years by virtually all major MMA publications (references)" is perfectly fine according to the Wiki policy on NPOV since it's referenced and cites reputable sources.  -CasualFighter 17:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The tone of this article 

message: Anonymous editor (210.4.77.150) keeps removing all honorary titles and appellations with the exception of an old World Observer Newsleter (WON) title. He motivates it by saying that the other titles (from Full Contact Fighter, Sherdog, MMAWeekly) are irrelevant since they are just "websites run by fans", while WON is a "counterpart of the Ring magazine".
# Please, do not remove that section again without discussing it here.
# Full Contact Fighter is a major publication and also has a magazine.
# Having a printed magazine is not really a good criteria of relevance. If it were, Amazon.com would not be a relevant book retailer - and it is.
# Sherdog.com is the most influential information agency in MMA. It reaches many more fans than any printed MMA publication or other MMA news outlet, and it's fighter database is one of the most authoritative in the world.
# MMAWeekly is not "just a website run by fans" either. In the context of the article this publication is extrememly relevant, since it has ranked MMA fighters for years, and Fedor's standing is of utmost relevance.
Thank you.
-CasualFighter 22:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Honorary titles and appellations 

message: I reverted the , because I had added the weight according to Japanese pride site. I belive that japanese site is more accuracy than english pride site . Carlosguitar 02:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy weight 

message: Oleg Neustroev is described as a "doctor, masseuse and psychologist all in one."  Masseuse is strictly a female term.  Masseur is the male term.  "Massage therapist" is a term that may be used for either.76.211.186.221 02:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Masseuse? 

message: I found one Fedor's fight, that is not very well known.
 RESULT	OPPONENT	          METHOD	    TIME     ROUND	      TOURNAMENT	                 DATE	
 Win	Martin Lazarev	Submission (Guillotine choke)	n/a	1	RINGS Russia - Russia vs Bulgaria II	01.09.2001
Info came from the best (as imho reliable) Russian mma web site http://valetudo.ru/fightsdb/info.php?looknfor=fighter&id=265
This Martin Lazarev also fought against Mikhail Iljukhin (who fought against Quinton_Jackson as well as other fighers).
Should I just add the result of this fight to article or is some kind of checking precedure needed? mixer 07:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting... Well, his website doesn't mention it, and neither does fcfighter or sherdog. Let's see if we can find another source besides valetudo.ru. Also, Fedor is supposed to have another online meeting coming up soon - I'll ask him there. -CasualFighter 20:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks in advance! mixer 14:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Google for "RARE Fedor Emelianenko" to see his fight. Carlosguitar 21:35, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fight against Martin Lazarev 

message: I've never heard him be called "The Last Russian Emperor" before, I was wondering who put that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.166.208.222 (talk) 19:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He's been called that sparsely for a while, although, more people call him The Russian Experiment in my experience.--SalamandraNinja 13:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  His nicknames 

message: I'm going to work on bringing this article up to FA status in the next few days. I'm using Simon Byrne, the only other FA related to a combat sport, as a loose guide. east.718 04:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: East718, I recommend firstly to request a peer review, then it tries to meet GA criteria. If article meet GA criteria, then request a good article review. Carlosguitar 08:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to request a peer review, then take it straight to FAC, unless you want to contribute and have any objections. That's usually the route I take when promoting an article to FA status. east.718 20:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvements 

message: I think that mmarankings blog is not a reliable source. This blog just started on January 2007, and seems to be updated by only one person.  Carlosguitar 08:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, especially when the same person keeps adding it to the article at the expense of the Inside Fighting rankings. Inside Fighting and Full Contact Fighter are both reputable magazines, and MMA Weekly and MMANews.com are both reliable online sources. east.718 20:21, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: reliable of mmarankings blog

message: I just reverted a lot of changes because of the heavy vandalism, misused fair use images, and broken formatting. east.718 23:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent revert 

message: From a request at WP:3O. It seems the dispute is already solved (pleas re-list it if it is not) in an amicable way. I would agree with listing Russian as his current nationality, but perhaps it would be appropriate to state " ... is a Soviet-born Russian heavyweight ... " to indicate he is originally from outside the current Russia. --User:Krator (t c) 09:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I can confirm this. In the video it says that "after every fight Fedor takes the microphone and addresses the Russian fans". Beginning at 2:25, Fedor says, "This victory I want to devote, as a Russian, to my country, Russia. A big thankyou to you!".--Ilya1166 10:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll agree with consensus here, Krator's suggestion is also excellent. I've put in a request for unprotection. east.718 11:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agree as well. Tuckdogg 12:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third Opinion 

message: Source #25 is cited by the wrong sentence, it should be after this one: "...they complained that the referee allowed the rope grabbing to happen by not penalizing Emelianenko." east.718 04:19, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 04:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! east.718 04:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected edit request