Talk:Succession crisis (Latter Day Saints)

message: Is the "Succession Crisis" really a proper name? I'm not sure why it's capitalized. Cool Hand Luke 08:15, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed my mind. I think a better name would be Latter Day Saint succession crisis. Any comments?
I like Succession crisis (Mormonism) best. To me this is a Mormonism issue, not a Latter Day Saint issue. It also takes into account the cultural aspects. -Visorstuff 23:33, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Capitalization

message: Though the historical term "Mormonism" does apply to this time period, the first sentence says "Latter Day Saint" - a term used more often nowadays to include groups outside the modern "Mormon" (LDS) church. So, so call this the succession crisis of "Mormonism" implies that the modern "Mormon" position on the succession crisis is correct, which would violate NPOV. --Nerd42 23:39, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The existing procedure regarding this nomenclature at WP:LDS has been to include the entirety of Joseph Smith restorationism under the term Mormonism. This is a lot bigger than just this page -- try the talk page at WP:LDS. cookiecaper (talk / contribs) 23:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why have the Latter Day Saints in there at all.  Should Succession crisis redirect here, since there is no article with that name currently? Bytebear 01:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I like the idea of moving to Succession crisis. I think I'll do it. We can always move it back if there happens to be some other succession crisis article. As to Latter Day Saintism, that has been proposed before, but nobody calls it that in the literature. I've thought about the possibility of (Latter Day Saint movement), but that's getting to be a pretty long parenthetical. Since we can't coin terms for article naming, somebody needs to publish an article advocating a better term, but I don't know what that would be. The best term in my opinion, Restoration movement, often used by the Community of Christ, is already taken by the Disciples of Christ, and would be ambiguous. COGDEN 00:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Me gustaJcg5029 21:39, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to [[Succession crisis (Latter Day Saintism)]]? 

message: Sections on the historical line of succession for the LDS Church and the claims of Strang up until the organization of CoC (reorganized).  Would a small section below these two on succession through The Church of Jesus Christ be appropriate.  I feel it would expand the page and give a broader perspective of the movement.  Jcg5029 13:10, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TCOJC Section 

message: The Temple Lot-ers article specifies 5K members, and 12K members of the Elijah-messagers. This Succession crisis article specifies 12K Temple Lot-ers and an unknown number of EMers. Anyone able to reconcile those numbers? Thx. TheEditrix2 17:10, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Membership numbers? 

message: Per WP:Verifiability, the following text has been removed from the main page because it has been tagged as having no sources for over three months. Feel free to add text that is supported by inline citations. --Eustress (talk) 14:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless I am mistaken, aren't there fact tags from February 200<B>7</B>, June 200<B>7</B> and October 200<B>7</B> in this article? Wee bit longer than three months for some of them, especially when I have seen pro-mormon editors pull sections of articles when a fact tag has been up only a few weeks. Duke53 | Talk 05:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been fixed, by someone besides either one of us. Unless I am mistaken, if any were missed, they could be fixed or deleted by anyone, even you. — Val42 (talk) 04:53, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

text: After re-reading the section, I agree to let it remain for now, as it does have some citations...I hope more will follow. Best --Eustress (talk) 22:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with any removal of wholesale sections simply due to the "citation frenzy" of the past year or so.  Deletion or "hiding" when questions occur do not help us build the encyclopedia.  Individual sentences should, of course, be brought to talk for discussion.  I always prefer a group effort at sourcing/ documenting/ writing to the use of templates, "tagging" and appeals to Wiki policy.  As to this particular section, there are several good citations.  I agree that most of the sentences still awaiting sources are a little nebulous.  Some of the less well known issues could be removed from the article, or put into better perspective.  As the section appears, to me, to be trying to show why there were questions on the succession on JS's death, a good rewrite might enhance the meaning and reduce questions.  WBardwin (talk) 03:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsupported text 

message: 70.171.235.197 (talk) 15:13, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No it wasn't. The CofC self-identify as being started in 1830, just like other denominations in the LDS Movement. 1872 is significant because that is the year they added the word Reorganized to the name Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which they had used officially since 1860 when JSIII was ordained. Best, A Sniper (talk) 16:19, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Community of Christ?

message: Since the phrase "Succession Crisis" applies to so many things, I want to reopen the question of renaming the article "Succession crisis (Mormonism)." There doesn't seem to have been any objection when this was raised before. I don't know how to do it myself. 66.31.201.137 (talk) 15:12, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Under the LDS naming conventions, I would be "Succession crisis (Latter Day Saints)" rather than "Succession crisis (Mormonism)". I think at some point we may need to do this change, but there is not, as yet, another "succession crisis" article competing for use of the name, and therefore no need to disambiguate. COGDEN 20:03, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Looking around a bit, I found a few other "succession crisis" article that might justify creating a disambiguation page linking to all of them. See 1580 Portuguese succession crisis, Monaco Succession Crisis of 1918, Boleslaw I's intervention in the Kievan succession crisis, 1018, and Japanese succession controversy.  I would suggest we rename this article to "Latter Day Saint succession crisis" and "succession crisis" as a disambiguation article. COGDEN 21:25, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree with the creation of a disambig article, but the name "Latter Day Saint succession crisis" doesn't give/imply a point in time.   In the LDS naming conventions, "Succession crisis of 1844 (Latter Day Saints)" might work.  WBardwin (talk) 03:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The crisis began in 1844, but was not necessarily limited to 1844. Under the general naming guidelines, we try to use, as much as possible, the most common terminology for the topic.  I've never seen it referred to as the "succession crisis of 1844" in Mormon studies articles. I've seen simply "succession crisis" and "Mormon succession crisis". The problem with the second one is that it is not as neutral as "Latter Day Saint succession crisis".  So I think the choices ought to be either "Succession crisis (Latter Day Saints)" or "Latter Day Saint succession crisis". I like the latter for some reason, maybe because it seems more straightforward. COGDEN 05:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But -- has there really been only one Latter Day Saint succession crisis?  Succession has been fairly tame in the apostolic succession used by the Utah based LDS church, but other denominations/offshoots have had a crisis or two.  The RLDS/Community of Christ had an issue when they had to move away from the descendents of Joseph Smith, Jr. and I can remember a couple of "dandy" fundamentalist succession fights in my lifetime!  WBardwin (talk) 06:03, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You could say that there was only one "Latter Day Saint" succession crisis, in the sense that there was only one relating to the entire movement. If there were ever an article about various crises in the Community of Christ, it would be an "RLDS" or "Community of Christ" succession crisis. If it's about the FLDS Church, it would been an "FLDS Church" succession crisis. I think reference to "Latter Day Saint succession crisis" is specific enough that everybody knows what it refers to. COGDEN 07:40, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change name - reopen the discussion 

message: Like can you compare it to Catholics versus Protestants or some such?  Do they see each other as Mormons?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.35.39 (talk) 03:00, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: See Mormonism and Christianity. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 23:45, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  how do they view each other? 

message: Hello all,
Just wanted to let you know that I'm attempting a pretty thorough revision and reorganization of this page. Since it will take a while, I've started sandboxing it here. Let me know if you have any feedback or questions.
Greenhas (talk) 21:07, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganization project 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hey, everyone! Just a general reminder, primarily for those newer editors who may not be aware: At the time Joseph Smith organized a church on April 6, 1830, it went by the name "Church of Christ." It was not for another 8 years that the church was then given the name "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Also, with the legal question of which of the churches which trace their origins back to Joseph Smith still unresolved, all we know is that the early members of that church until 1838 were known as Latter Day Saints, a designation which still fits those denominations connected with the movement of the same name, but only connected to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints through the common founder. Therefore, in any article such as this one, that deals with all denominations in that category, rather than specifically relating to the LDS Church, "Latter Day Saint" is the correct term, and, for this article, "Church of Christ" is one of the original names that was commonly accepted and used until 1838, and was used by some of the offshoot organizations after the "succession crisis" described in this article. Hope this reminder helps all who read it.  --Jgstokes (talk) 08:46, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the church (prior to 1838 and after 1844)