Talk:Water vapor/Archive 3

message: I changed "complex" to "warming and cooling," because that made the paragraph more readable. Is that accurate? I suppose clouds also add a lot of heat capacity, so perhaps "warming, cooling and buffering" might be appropriate. If at all possible, I think it's best to avoid "complex" and to be explicit, even if only about the generalities. 168... 01:23, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, "complex" is correct.  Clouds, not only shield (mostly), they also blanket (mostly). Heat capacity?? No, the thermal energies are moved vertically and clouds are formed, thus adding more complexity.  RadarCzar 06:36, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, if you read me closely, you'll see that I didn't ask whether "complex" is correct. In effect I asked if it's avoidable, or if their isn't some explicit generality or net effect that couldn't be said as well. "Complex" doesn't convey anything concrete to the reader, whereas "blocking" and "insulating" do. Your statement about thermal energies is unintelligible to me. 168... 15:05, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, if you re-read yourself more closely, I was answering your question more closely than the unintelligle response you have given.  Especially, concerning the article matter of the time.  And complex is absolutely corrrect.  So why change it, for idiomatic rhetorical purposes?  RadarCzar 05:54, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cloud Effect Complexity 

message: (William M. Connolley 19:49, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: (SEWilco 06:01, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much meteorology 

message: From WMC's previous question:
* Why would supersaturated air expand?
Supersaturated condition is also an astable state.  One could try to argue the probability of a stable supersaturated condition, but it would in fact become a circular argument for an open atmosphere.  Sure, in a closed jar expansion is impossible (unless abrupt).  But the question stems from an open type environment.
Why would it expand?   In a locality, the air can become supersaturated (by whatever means).  This implies one of a few things have happened.  
: i) More molecules have dumped into the local atmosphere and more energy has been dumped into the local atmosphere (with the water vapor).  So more energy and more molecules means pressure must rise.  But since this is not a closed container, expansion occurs.  Dissipation is also a key factor, especially at the boundaries of this supersaturated locality.
: ii) The overall temperature or pressure has quasi-statically (slowly) dropped so that the actual number of water molecules remains the same (no precip or condensation) in a localized atmosphere.  The interesting thing is, this example has the same answer as i).  But, the extra energy that you are trying to account for comes from the heat capacity of water.  So, the locality has a higher energy with a supersaturation condition than the surrounding atmosphere, and expansion occurs.
But, expansion will stop when the supersaturation is dissipated.  Also, this follows an analysis of steam and why it is a gas.  RadarCzar 04:48, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: You really don't know what you are talking about or questioning.  I believe you are nowhere near expert enough to have been editing this article.  I am right, aren't I.  RadarCzar 02:50, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)

text: Huh? When did I insult an expert and when did I say I was joking or anything remotely like that? And do please remind me the last time I felt glee in connection with this discussion. If I ever did it's an all too distant memory. 168... 15:52, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gas Law Expansion 

message: \begin{matrix}P \cdot V = n \cdot R \cdot T \\
P = \mbox{pressure} \\
V = \mbox{volume} \\
n = \mbox{number of molecules} \\
R = \mbox{constant} \\
T = \mbox{temperature} \end{matrix}
By inspection of the above Gas Law, when more molecules n are added to the system, P or V must increase also.  But, again, since this is the open air case, we know that pressure P remains the same, so only the volume increases...expansion.  
Just to further complicate things, water vapor is also dissipating away from the saturation while the expansion is going on.  Add this factor into the dynamics, it also implies a cooling of the water vapor.  So!! water vapor doesn't stay at 100 degrees celsius in the atmosphere.  Only!! steam is at 100 degrees celsius, and it is still a gas. RadarCzar 03:34, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: You really don't know what you are talking about or questioning.  I believe you are nowhere near expert enough to have been editing this article.  I am right, aren't I.  RadarCzar 02:50, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)

text: Huh? When did I insult an expert and when did I say I was joking or anything remotely like that? And do please remind me the last time I felt glee in connection with this discussion. If I ever did it's an all too distant memory. 168... 15:52, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Ideal Gas Law