Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive 46

message: While visiting the Czech Republic in the summer of 2004 I came across a piece in the Czech daily "Blesk" asserting that the four remaining descendants of Hitler had all voluntarily undergone sterilization. If a reference could be found would this be something for inclusion in the article? Thanks, Gibaudrac.
I question the reference to Hitler's "descendants," as these four persons were not his offspring or their issue, but rather the descendants of his half brother Alois or other more distant relatives (his sister Paula never had any children).Jeff 03:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a story about the four children of William Patrick Hitler, but it's apparently not true. Paul B 12:16, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relatives 

message: Umm...if he was jailed for over a year how come it shows he was sentenced in april  and freed in december?
:Note the phrase "including remand". Paul B 14:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jailtime

message: It says he was Roman Catholic and blah blah, where was he baptised or went to Church when he actually attended it?           24.92.57.119 16:38, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your point? It's not disputed that he was born into a Catholic family. Paul B 17:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's more details you want, 24, I can say that he was baptised in Branau parish church and attended church as a child/pupil. The last time he did so was before he left home and once more for his mother's funeral. (Not countin social occasions such as weddings.) Str1977 (smile back) 21:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  To be more specific, Hitler was a very typical "European" Catholic.  I mean to say that, he never went to mass, never read the Bible in his life and had no clue whatsoever about the most basic rudiments of the faith.  Hitler's Catholocism was scant outward symbolism and non-existant substance.His religion had no bearing whatsoever on his personal or public life.  It is much more correct to say that Hitler was a "Wagnerian" and a "Houston Chamberlainian" in his metaphysical persuasions.  Both of those men had far more impact on his philosophical bent than the founder of Christianity ever did.  And, lets not leave out the influence of Luther....  Good Day  Jon Hartley (hartley8184@yahoo.net) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.96.160.208 (talk) 21:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: I added the unreferenced tag to the sections with no refs or long sections with only 1 or 2. I think it only let a few tags remain though, because of a bot. I think an article on such a central historical person as Hitler should have thorough citations. -- Kevin Browning 07:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References. 

message: Edits contributed by Foundby removed from article. Please work on them here since they drasticaly change original text and don't comply with WP:Manual_of_style and other guidelines. Thank you.--Pethr 00:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed text 

message: Eh not here, I want the whole article to work on eh --Foundby 01:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your extensive summary. I agree, that his behaviour was inappropriate, but I think we already reached agreement with Foundby. I think he took lesson from all of this and will be better member of this community from now on.--Pethr 01:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: aa

message: Is he still editing this article and Bob Dylan - and if so, how often?? I've heard a bit about him, and the fact he uses dynamic IPs in Germany, but what's the full situation with this?? --SunStar Nettalk 18:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't think we've seen him lately. --Golbez 18:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ROHA 

message: Fascism is, as defined from it's wikipedia article, a "political ideology and mass movement that seeks to place the nation"..."above all other sources of loyalty, and to create a mobilized national community." I don't think this is in any way NPOV, although in the modern day many people see fascism with a negative connotation. However, this reason is mostly because of Hitler, so I think that it should stay. - Kevin (TALK)  19:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: About fascism link

message: This article would benefit from a good colour close-up photo of Hitler's face, preferably as the first in the article, as it is about the whole person. At the moment there's just a propaganda-type image of him as the leader. Tyrenius 03:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead and find a free-licence picture that fits that description. Agathoclea 12:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: just quering the spelling og the prison the hitler was sent to - ytour site says landsberg but im pretty sure its landsburg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.139.43.80 (talk) 19:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  hitlers prison 

message: Did Hitler have a middle name?  I've tried to Google it with no luck. --Calan 05:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it was Yehudi, but he was a bit embarrassed about it. No, not really, he was just plain Adolf. Paul B 16:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You had me going for a second!  So, no middle name. thanks! --Calan 16:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if you want the joke answer (as per Mel Brooks' The Producers), his middle name was Elizabeth.  Patent nonsense, though.  Well, it belongs in another article. David 22:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Silence! It voz Schnitzel. You vill pay for your discourtesies.
Apparently Hitler's full name was Adolf Hitler.--Magi Media 03:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What was Hitler's full name?

message: The Sexuality section makes no mention of a wife, only a fiance, mistress, and questionable relationship with a neice.  The genealogy section claims that the mistress was, in fact, his wife.  Which is true? (I don't know if this has or has not been discussed, as there is no ToC on this talk page). David 21:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He married her the day before he shot himself. Paul B 00:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: Various editors have tried in the past to improve the lead section, particularly the bits on how the second world war started, and how many people died as a result of Hitler's policies. I would argue that the current lead is too simplistic on causes and could do with a slightly fuller explanation. Poland was the final act of Hitler that the Allies could not tolerate without declaring war as per previous warnings, not the main trigger of WW2, which lay in the expansionism of Germany and it's annexation of the Rheinland, Austria, Czech lands and then Poland. So that part could read:
Hitler pursued an aggressive foreign policy with the intention of expanding German Lebensraum ("living space"), which triggered World War II when Germany annexed Austria, the Czech lands, and invaded Poland, much of which was also annexed to form the "Greater German Reich" (Großdeutsches Reich).
Then the last bit - the numbers of deaths. Shouldn't we count here all those who died in the European part of the war, which could be laid at the door of Hitler's policies? Certainly it is a lot more than 11 million - that figure refers to the general number of deaths attributed to mass murder and murder in camps and of civilians. But at least 30-40 million people died in the European Theatre as a whole during World War 2. Note that the sentence reads "Hitlers ambitions and racial policies" so it isn't just about race.
I propose we change these two parts. They did stand for some time in this form until repeatedly overturned by an editor who is now perma-blocked. The aim is not some empty-headed Hitler denunciation trip, but to give a more accurate summary of his personal impact. MarkThomas 10:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In re the death count: No, that's a bit unfair to Hitler. He caused the war, but he didn't tell Churchhill to destroy Dresden, or the Soviets to invade Finland. It's extremely shortsighted to blame every death in the war on him. However, Hitler's policies and soldiers directly caused the Holocaust. --Golbez 19:53, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Don't be catty, I participate even if it's not on the talk page. I will point out that I'm not the only one who disagrees with you, as well. Hitler did trigger the second world war - but the effects of the war in general should be confined to the article on the war, we should speak only directly of what Hitler did - he caused the war, his armies marched over Europe, he caused the Holocaust. We shouldn't say all effects of the whole war were because of this one man. --Golbez 20:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I've come to expect nothing better. --Golbez 03:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aren't all political leaders politically ambitious? Just as all trial lawyers (and editors of this talk page) are argumentative. Hardly needs stating in an already long intro.--Shtove 18:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Shtove, that may be true, but I think there are a few minor differences between Hitler's ambitions and say, Tony Blair's or even George Bush's. I don't think either of them seek global domination (at least not directly ;) ) and the extermination of several races of people (not to mention the eradication of political opposition). Parsecboy 19:16, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead: "Hitler's ambitions and racial policies" 

message: Did the Second World War end in the devastation of much of Europe? And was this largely the result of Hitler's ambitions? Golbez disagrees - do other editors? I would argue that it's worth saying this, as the current paragraph lead, along with the above, seems to be almost dissasociated from the second world war and is factually innacurate too. MarkThomas 09:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It did, but this isn't about World War 2, it's about Hitler. --Golbez 19:56, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

text: So, what about Josef Stalin? Does his "destructive legacy" in WWII belong in Hitler's biog?--Shtove 01:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the problem here is that Adolf Hitler is confounded with the German State - "l'état c'est moi". This is a biog, but he wasn't an absolute monarch - there are no end of studies detailing the chaos of the German administraion in this period. So the intro should only refer to events for which AH was directly responsible.--Shtove 00:39, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second World War resulted in devastation of Europe 

message: It's clear to see Hitler claimed to be a Christian, but his brutal rule and oppression of millions of people indicates his narrow-minded belief on what's a Christian. In the years of world war II, Adolf Hitler started to speak out against Christianity in his private memoirs, and other close associates to heavily influence the hostility towards Christian morals and values. Today, most Nazi and WWII historians knew well on Alfred Rosenberg and SS head general Heinrich Himmler are adherents of occultism, "Aryan" theosophy and neopagan religions, plus Rosenberg and Himmler convinced most Nazis the Christian religion was of "Jewish origin" introduced from the holy land, where Jesus walked and the "son of god" due to his mother, the Virgin Mary was herself Jewish. The anti-Christian minority in the Nazi party warned Hitler on the "dangerous threat" of traditional mainstream Christianity has on the Nazi German empire. Here's an actual statement Hitler quoted about the far-reaching effect of Christian morality in his memoirs in the early 1940's.
   
The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths will crumble. All that’s left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity. Originally, religion was merely a prop for human communities. It was a means, not an end in itself. It’s only gradually that it became transformed in this direction, with the object of maintaining the rule of the priests, who can live only to the detriment of society collectively...Christianity, of course, has reached the peak of absurdity in this respect. And that’s why one day its structure will collapse. Science has already impregnated humanity. Consequently, the more Christianity clings to its dogmas, the quicker it will decline. - Adolph Hitler, June 1940   63.3.14.129 01:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitler's despise of Christian values 

message: I don't believe the bolded line below belongs in the article.
After the second refusal from the Academy of Arts, Hitler gradually ran out of money. By 1909, he sought refuge in a homeless shelter, and by the beginning of 1910 had settled permanently into a house for poor working men.
Hitler was actually taking some jew to his house and started raping them cause he was gay. 
an active anti-Semite in Vienna, which had a large Jewish community, including many Orthodox Jews from Eastern Europe and where traditional religious —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thewoodshed (talk • contribs) 02:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page has been vandalized 

message: What religion was Adolf Hitler? 83.71.87.55 23:52, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the bleedin' article. Paul B 17:13, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  religion? 

message: This:
If you ask any taxi driver what they think of Adolf Hitler, they will always say the same thing: "He had the right idea, but he went too far."
...Sounds like vandalism to me.  Source it before you put it back. David 01:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Never heard of this... 

message: This true? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.151.136.197 (talk) 16:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yawn. Almost certainly not. See Hitler Has Only Got One Ball. Paul B 16:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On this front Paul, do we think it would be worth having a "Common myths about Hitler" section? Eg, that he was Jewish, had one ball, chewed carpets, watched porn films, was homosexual, survived the war, etc? For completeness, not because I believe any of them! MarkThomas 11:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The carpet chewing is merely a metaphor(as he went so mad when his so called generals backed out of military practices) he wenton all fours andhit and spat on the floor. Lol..that was useless information. The homosexual idea is as silly as the one testicle idea (seeing as neither Morrell or Stumpfegger mentioned it). Anyway, the article is god, Id rate it as close to featured article class.Not much could be added. Fethroesforia 22:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Totally agree it's all utter rubbish Fethroesforia (fun trying to spell that one!) but isn't at least some of it quite notable? The conspiracy theories regarding his ending for example...? MarkThomas 01:11, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, i agree to that. There aresomeweird things about it (like those specialpills he took, only two people took them, him..and a mystery gardener for Franco of spain after 1945!) anyway, yes, maybe a list of urban legends. Lol..my names the name ofa song..probably greek/latin mix..lol..i have to type it all the time. I always get it wrong:) Fethroesforia 17:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  One testicle 

message: Now I was going to make a change but decided to consult other editors on this page... based on the pages of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idi_Amin Idi Amin and Saddam Hussein I've noticed that it is a standard to put the 'dictators religion in their userbox so you can imagine I am surprised that Hitlers' religion isn't mentioned until roughly 10 paraghraphs lower (and of course in it's own box) so unless anyone has any objections I will list his religion in his 'box' to keep with the 'standard' M87 03:49, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What religion?--Shtove 00:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was born into a Catholic family so we should at least put Catholic or perhaps "Born into a Catholic family" Dappled Sage 03:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think what religion he actually practiced is far more important, as far as an infobox is concerned, than what he was born and raised, which should be mentioned in the article. Parsecboy 03:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  IMPORTANT: regarding religion 

message: This paragraph...
:"Hitler began to claim the Jews were natural enemies of what he called the Aryan race. He held them responsible for Austria's crisis. He also identified certain forms of Socialism and especially Bolshevism, which had many Jews among its leaders, as Jewish movements, merging his anti-Semitism with anti-Marxism. Blaming Germany's military defeat on the 1917 Revolutions[citation needed], he considered Jews the culprit of Imperial Germany's military defeat and subsequent economic problems as well."
... appears before the section on WWI. This doesn't seem right to me. Pjbflynn 19:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chronological issue