Talk:Silphium

message: The change of lasarpicium to laserpicium doesn't match the spelling of the word in the
translation Catullus 7, also the search word/link? was not changed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=lasarpicium&fulltext=Search
If you are going to fix the spelling fix it everwhere.  Kurt Baty 23:09, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact it is spelled both ways in Latin, so honestly I don't think it needed to be "fixed" at all. --Iustinus 01:01, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The spelling of lasarpicium or laserpicium

message: The theory by J.S. Gilbert, mentioned in the article, needs a citation. This was added by the same anonymous user who made the comments about Jews and Libya, which have been deleted. This doesn't automatically make the information suspect—it's a reasonable enough hypothesis, and the description is fairly detailed. My main concern is that this might be "Original Research" (WP:NOR). If this has been published somewhere, we need a reference citation to that.--Srleffler 00:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gilbert's theory

message: This article talk page was automatically added with  banner as it falls under :Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 16:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:FOOD|WikiProject Food and drink]] Tagging

message: The article says "Pliny reported that the last known stalk of silphium was given to the Emperor Nero "as a curiosity"."; but it links to the source (Naturalis Historia bk 19) which does not in fact say this. He says that the last stalk of silphium found in Cyrenaica was given to Nero, and that all the currently used laser (the term he uses for the sap; to Pliny laserpicium (Latin) or silphion (Greek) is the plant, laser the resin) comes from Persis, Media, and Armenia. He does say that this silphium is inferior to the old Cyrenaican kind, and many have taken this to mean it's a different species; but this is not in fact what Pliny says. Pliny does not distinguish in name between the Cyrenaican and Median/Armenian/Persian varieties, both are laserpicium and produce laser. So we can't source the claim that it went extinct to Pliny, since Pliny does not in fact say this (he says that it is still sold and worth its weight in silver -- he clearly does not think it is extinct!) I checked the original Latin, and there's nothing in there to suggest this either. Vultur (talk) 17:58, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect paraphrase of Pliny

message: The subject of this article isn't really silphium; it's "Cyrenaican silphium" or somesuch. Statements like "The plant grew along a narrow coastal area, about 125 by 35 miles, in Cyrenaica (in present-day Libya)" simply presume that only the better-quality Cyrenaican variety is *really* silphium. But this isn't at all clear in the ancient sources -- we need to be clearer about what the ancients actually said about silphium vs. the modern hypothesis that the higher-quality variety was a separate and now extinct species. 'Silphium' or 'laserpicium' did not only grow in Cyrenaica, nor is it extinct, as the terms could include asafoetida as well. 
Specifically, of the classical sources given in the article:
-Herodotus long predates the extinction (or extirpation) of silphium, thus makes no claims about it
-Pausanias makes no claims about the identity or extinction of silphium, merely repeating a legend  that silphium was left on a table in Phormion's house when the Dioscuri disappeared with his daughter
-Pliny seems to be the main source for claims of extinction. He says silphium was "otrriginally a native of the province of Cyrenaica", "For these many years past, however, it has not been found in Cyrenaica, as the farmers of the revenue who hold the lands there on lease, have a notion that it is more profitable to depasture flocks of sheep upon them. Within the memory of the present generation, a single stalk is all that has ever been found there, and that was sent as a curiosity to the Emperor Nero". But he also says "For this long time past, there has been no other laser imported into this country, but that produced in either Persis, Media, or Armenia, where it grows in considerable abundance, though much inferior to that of Cyrenaica; and even then it is extensively adulterated with gum, sacopenium, or pounded beans." (According to Pliny, 'laserpitium' is the Latin name, 'silphion' the Greek; 'laser' is the sap.) So he does not believe 'laserpicium' or 'silphion' is extinct; the Asian variety is covered by the same name as the North African. 
Also the identification as Ferula tingitana is more widely held than this article suggests. Will insert more sources...
Vultur (talk) 18:03, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd recommend an article on Ferula tingitana as a good place to commence.--Wetman (talk) 07:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll see what I can make out of the little info that isn't "...is a possible identity for silphium" or recondite organic chemistry. Vultur (talk) 10:43, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming issue

message: "Silphium retained a ghostly literary half-life in lists of aromatics copied one from another..."
Another source I've found, though, suggests this (along with its mention by Synesius of Cyrene) is evidence that it didn't go extinct, and was still known, as late as the early fifth century. 
(There is the secondary problem that 'silphium', 'laserpicium' etc. can mean "asafoetida" [and maybe other Ferulas] as well.)
I'll see if I can trace down the History of Food book and see precisely what it says. Vultur (talk) 11:35, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Apicius

message: I am considering removing the discussion of similarity between the heart symbol and the Egyptian "heart soul" symbol.
#I don't really see the similarity myself.
#It is uncited, and has been so for a long time.
#It is of peripheral relevance.
The similarity between silphium seeds and the modern heart symbol is striking, and should stay in. It's the Egyptian connection I am questioning. If this can be supported by a reliable source, great. Otherwise it should go.--Srleffler (talk) 02:33, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I think the Egyptian symbol discussion should not be on this page, it should be moved to the heart symbol page. Unless it can be tied more directly to silphium. Kurt Baty (talk) 13:08, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have studied Egyptology and cannot see a plausible link on the basis of the information on this page.  +1 for removing.122.106.154.228 (talk) 08:05, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

text: Says that Cachrys ferulacea, which grows in Cyrenaica, was suggested as a candidate by Italian archaeologist Antonio Manunta in the early 1990s on the basis of sweet scent and heart-shaped seeds. — Eru·tuon 19:02, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Egyptian heart soul symbol 

message: A couple of not previously brought of details were mentioned in this 2017 BBC article, added some of those. prokaryotes (talk) 12:12, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: New information

message: Somebody might add a section, or at least link, regarding its role in the domestication of perennials underway at the Land Institute in Salina, Kansas. 
https://landinstitute.org
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_Institute 
Stephen Mikesell Singing Coyote (talk 19:08, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That is relevant to Silphium (genus), not this article. Plantdrew (talk) 23:26, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Domestication at the Land Institute 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Moved Silphium (antiquity) →  and :Silphium → . There is the consensus (as well as status quo ante) that the ancient plant is the primary topic. I will retarget Silphium (plant) to the dab page and sort out the incoming links.   No such user (talk) 16:48, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 28 June 2022 

message: Here's one article found: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/a-miracle-plant-was-just-rediscovered-after-2-000-years-in-turkey/ar-AA12LwgR
Thanks for reading. Apisite (talk) 05:27, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  One Article of Interest 

message: This miracle plant was eaten into extinction 2,000 years ago—or was it?
Silphion cured diseases and made food tasty, but Emperor Nero allegedly consumed the last stalk. Now, a Turkish researcher thinks he’s found a botanical survivor.
Professor Mahmut Miski cups a handful of flowering Ferula drudeana near Mount Hasan in central Turkey. The scholar of plant medicine believes the species is silphion, beloved by ancient Greeks and Romans and thought to be extinct...
ByTaras Grescoe
Photographs ByAlice Zoo
Illustrations byNirupa Rao
Video byGeorge Selley
Published September 23, 2022
Keith Henson (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Article of Interest 

message: It is stated that "...another theory holds that the plant was a hybrid, which often results in very desired traits in the first generation, but second-generation can yield very unpredictable outcomes." This claim is sourced from a BBC article, but I have seen no peer-reviewed research that actually proposed this theory. Can anybody point to a source that argues in favor of this claim? PurpleStraw (talk) 21:59, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hybrid Theory