Talk:Tetovo

message: I find it really sad that although this is an Albanian populated city, the article here only mentions Albanians once.  Clearly Macedonian Slavs are scarred of their dwindling pipulation and disputed national identity, so they write propaganda pieces like this one.
You have the same notice on the stub at the bottom. All that notice does is make the article more ugly. Dori | Talk 13:26, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
:Aesthetically, I agree with you, but since this is the way it's done when expansion is requested, I'd put content over aesthetics. Anyway, thanks for trying to make this article more beautiful. :) Etz Haim 19:13, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Albanian is official, and there is significant Turkish minority, so they will be listed along with Macedonian language! Mr. Neutron 13:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: See here!. 60886 Albanians out of 86580 people, more than 20% and Albanian is official! Mr. Neutron 14:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, but as the Macedonian is primary language at national level, I'm suggesting a compromise, in the intro we would mention the Macedonian as the primary language, and in the Name section we would put both the Macedonian and Albanian (we can add Turkish as well). What do you think? MatriX 17:06, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: After the name in English, will follow Macedonian and Albanian, as those two are official in the country and most of the local population is Albanian. Mr. Neutron 17:12, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is ok, but as the Macedonian language is primary at national level, we can put all other relevant naming's into the Name section. MatriX 17:27, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

text: This is your interpretation. There is no need for original researching. The Ohrid agreement was signed and is in effect. Therefore per 6.5, Albanian is official. Show me an official document by the government in Skopje which says the Ohrid agreement is annulled. Mr. Neutron 18:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Ohrid agreement is in place and the Macedonian is still retained as the primary official language at national level.MatriX 18:22, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Who are you to say? Do not make things up. Show a document which says the Ohrid agreement is not valid? If it is valid Albanian is official. Mr. Neutron 18:30, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think many people can know someone's ethnicity just by looking at them. --Justmakingonearcticle 22:07, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Albanian language is official

message: This article is clearly written by "macedonian" propagandist, if there is such a term. The desperation of these people stealing others' identity is quite sad. It's a shame how Wikipedia's lack of neutrality and concise information has increased. Yet another reason why its being shunned as research material. --Ptoleme (talk) 04:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, this article was created by a Greek user, Etz Haim. --Justmakingonearcticle 21:48, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV? 

message: Proof that this pronunciation is common for the Bulgarian dialectal space (call it the Bulgarian-Macedonian diasystem): . Besides hlyab, variants in folk songs include hleb, leb, lyap and lep. Todor→Bozhinov
:Explicitly tie this to the main point. BalkanFever 14:25, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The point is that Tito is dead. Todor→Bozhinov 16:01, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bread and circuses 

message: :Thank you that at least you described two of your changes in the articles Tetovo and Strumica. :) Maybe the reason of your silence until now is that you aren't many familiar with the rules of Wikipedia, but some of your edits can be defined as a typical form of vandalism. 
:Concerning your note: "when you cite 'relevant' census sources, please explain how the census was contucted" I would be glad to answer: The source (which wasn't cited by me first) isn't a census in contemporary form. Nobody asserts this. You can see: "According to the statistics of..." It is a research by geographer Vasil Kanchov made in the end of XIX century and published in 1900. It was made on the basis of the official Ottoman statistics and according to the data by local municipalities. Therefore the number of the population is round -  9,000 Turks, 8,500 Bulgarians, 1,200 Roma etc. This is the only way of statistics in these times in Ottoman empire and the research by Kanchov is one of the best in respect of region of Macedonia.--Males (talk) 15:08, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Ddirec 

message: I've put it down in the article as an Albanian town on the ground that it has an Albanian majority who lived in the town both before the town was conquered by Macedonia and before the Macedonians arrived. The Albanian majority there is a reminder of this period. I'm not saying that the town is in Albania, I mean it is Albanian by people and by deserved right for where it should be and who it ought to belong to. Human Rights Believer (talk) 15:12, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide reliable (non-Albanian and non-Macedonian, preferably) sources proving this. Alæxis¿question? 18:14, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No source could provide satisfactory details to support the comment made by HRB. We do not use the demonym of the majority population to indicate what a city is. We don't say "Kirkuk is a Kurdish city", nor do we even say "Iraqi city", it is simply a "city in Iraq" and that is the principle which applies everywhere. Evlekis (talk) 21:37, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Don't say that to me :) Alæxis¿question? 06:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Don't worry, our friend who is so concerned for human rights will not be making any contributions here for a while. He has achieved himself a topic ban, see his talk!! Evlekis (talk) 23:09, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albanian town 

message: Made this edit  in light of the discussion here. --Sulmues (talk) 16:11, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede 

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thread_title: File:Oldtetovo4.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: IP 151.250.11.178 needs a reliable source to support their additions about ethnic background of the city. The source they have used so far is not reliable. Ktrimi991 (talk) 12:42, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the addition is supported by facts from the body of the article. Tetovo obviously has a Turkish background being under the Ottoman Empire for centuries and it still has a sizable Turkish minority. I think the sentence is meant to communicate that, despite the centre of Macedonia's Albanian community, Tetovo is a very ethnically-mixed city with a history involving multiple groups of people. --Local hero talk 16:34, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that IP user has persistently disrupted with their edits. The lead needs some work and the whole article more material and coverage. A mention of Turkish element in Tetovo means that Vlachs are also to be mentioned as they are a traditional ethnic group and recent years have outnumbered Turks. The sentence user added is to be discussed because if we mention a Turkish background on this article then the same background is to be mentioned on every single article about settlements in those part of the Balkans that were under Ottoman Empire more than a century ago. The Turkish element has not played a major role in the history of Tetovo and as such word "background" seems not to be relevant. The lead also should inlude a few words about ancient past of the settlement and its importance in the Albanian nationalism. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:51, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: A better lead would certainly be helpful. I don't see any evidence that Vlachs are now or have ever been a significant minority in Tetovo by looking at the article. We could add a quick summary of the demographics saying that Albanians now form over half, while Macedonians make up over one-third and that Turks once formed over one-fifth of the population as recently as 1961 but are now under 4%. We should also summarise the history and maybe mention the important sites in the city like Šarena Džamija and Arabati Baba Tekje. --Local hero talk 14:45, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnic background 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: I can not find any reliable source that confirms with certainty the identity of the two cities - that of antiquity and the modern. 
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Can someone explain this to me or help me orient myself in the situation. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 12:15, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I find info that the town was founded during 13-14th century in Thammy Evans, Philip Briggs, Bradt Travel Guides, 2019, North Macedonia-p. 164. Jingiby (talk) 12:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tetovo/Oaneon/Oaneum 

message: This is inaccurate. Locals also use Tavce Gravce as stated earlier. 14.202.229.132 (talk) 04:32, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  locally in Tetovo as Tavë me Groshë. 

message: I have seen several problems with the article on Tetovo regarding its name, most of the website uses anacrhonistic language, saying that Oaeneum was conquered by the Ottomans (which i deleted) or that Oaeneum was ruled at alternate times by Illyrian Kings and all the way up to Skenderbeg (which i deleted) none of these had citations, in most of the article it is implied Oaeneum and Tetovo are one and the same, or at least the reader is led to that conclussion, but then we have the citations that say that Tetovo was founded in the 14th century and that previously during the Slavic-Avar invasions all fortresses were abandonded. Logically this means the city of Oaeneum died during or before the Slavic invasions and Tetovo was founded in or near its place roughly some 800+ years later which brings me to the issue of etymology.
The earliest records mention the city name as Htetovo and in the sources i previously added but were deleted it stated that the origin was Slavic and that it came from the verb "hteti" or want/desirable with the Slavic suffix -vo denoting a place ie a "Desirable place" this entry was deleted because apparently this was a "folk" etymology which it certinaly isn't, even if it was a folk etymology it doesn't mean people should not at least know about it yet it was deleted and nobody has ever added any citations or sources that disprove this claim or add another claim in its place. 
My question is how do we clarify the Oaeneum - Tetovo continuity problem and i would like someone to explain to me why my sources were deleted even tho the person that deleted them agreed the origin was most likely Slavic. Are people not supposed to see etymologies just because they may or may not be folk etymologies?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by GoofyMF (talk • contribs) 15:53, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name, etymology and continuity  

message: H 37.162.29.250 (talk) 12:16, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kosovo 

message: Let's use neutral terminology. Annexed and liberated have certain political and ethno-national connotations, while captured/seized is rather more neutral. As for the Macedonian sources, there things are somewhat biased in this case.Jingiby (talk) 05:32, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I’d argue ‘annexed’ does not have ulterior connotations, but I’m fine with ‘seized’. We need to remember it was an armed occupation and various paramilitary groups in the local area also resisted, because for certain parts of the region’s population, a Macedonian partisan takeover was far from ideal. ‘Liberation’ is therefore out of the question entirely. That’s inaccurate and non-neutral - in certain cases, a term like ‘liberation’ is fine because it is in accordance with the demographic situation and the actual historic reality for the local population. In this case, a term like liberation is not suitable in the slightest. Botushali (talk) 06:35, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Annexation in the international law, is the forcible acquisition of one state's territory by another state, usually following military occupation of the territory. The case here is different. Jingiby (talk) 07:05, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Indeed - therefore, 'seized' would be the appropriate term. 'Captured' seems to imply more temporary connotations. Botushali (talk) 07:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liberated, annexed or seized/captured. 

message: To mitigate the possibility of an edit war I am creating this talk page to discuss the supposed claim of Dusan barring everyone from grazing the fields, including the Albanians.
The citation is supposedly from page 77 of Iseni's "La question nationale en Europe du Sud-Est" (9783039113200), where he references page 56 of Noel Malcolm's "Kosovo: A Short History" (978-0060977757) whom in turn cites Stanojevic's work from 1929. 
This long string of sources is enough to relegate Iseni to a secondary source, at best. However, what is interesting here is that neither on page 77 of Iseni's work, nor page 56 of Malcolm's work can you find any mention of Dusan barring the farmers from grazing and even less so a specific mention of Albanians either. 
I will now remove the text from the page again as it is not only completely non-essential, but also nowhere to be found in the supposed sources. If you do find the source, please post it here to be verified.
Thanks. Skkaveola (talk) 11:29, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dusan barring grazing "including Albanians" 

message: Typical Albanian firstly I'd like to preface that what you've stated in this is in my opinion counter-productive and only encourages hostility. I've stated my position - the first name in the lead should be Тетово, as it's both the first official and WP:COMMONNAME of the town. 
And even if the majority of the town speaks Albanian, the first official name comes first. See Pustec for example - despite the majority of the population of the village speaking Macedonian, the first name in the lead is the Albanian one. 
Jingiby has also agreed on my position, as seen in his previous edit. Thanks. Kluche (talk) 21:33, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name in lead 

message: This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage.) Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: Macedonia by  Thammy Evans, page 208 and probably other sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
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replies: text: +amongst a lot of other sources, including various books and newspapers GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 10:36, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement.  Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 10:36, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible copyright problem