Talk:Kelsang Gyatso

message: In the section "Life and education in Tibet" a good verifiable independent citation is needed for the statement: "Kelsang Gyatso passed two examinations at Tashilhunpo Monastery in Shigatse, and received his Geshe degree". A problem with the last part of that statement is that Tashilhunpo Monastery did not confer Geshe degrees -  they did have a degrees called "Kachu" and "Kachen" - which, while being pretty much the same thing as different levels of the Geshe degree (in the Gelukpa tradition at that time only conferred by Sera, Drepung and Gaden), but these are not precisely equivalent. (See: Tarab Tulku (2000) A Brief History of Tibetan Academic Degrees in Buddhist Philosophy (NIAS Reports). NIAS Press. ISBN: 8787062852).
"Geshe" is of course also frequently used in Tibetan as a respectful title for learned monks, whether or not they actually formally hold a "Geshe degree". So the problem is not with the appellation, just with the statement that the subject of the article received a Geshe degree at Tashilhunpo.
If a reliable and verifiable citation cannot be found for that statement it should be removed. 
Chris Fynn (talk) 05:58, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: To sort this out, I changed "Geshe degree" to "higher degree" — but it still requires a proper, verifiable citation. Chris Fynn (talk) 18:08, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Formal or informal titles need only be mentioned once in an article, they do not need to be repeated. If you think geshe should be in the title of this article maybe the article could be moved to Kelsang Gyatso (geshe) - but I suspect that would only lead to further disagreement. Chris Fynn (talk) 09:50, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation needed for Geshe degree

message: HighWindows inserted improper references such as:
*Geshe Kelsang Gyatso "Tibetan and Zen Buddhism in Britain Transplantation, Development and Adaptation" David N Kay978-0-415-75397-5
*Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, New Religions By Carol S. Matthews''
*Geshe Gyatso, 'British Buddhism'Teachings, Practice and Development.'Robert BluckVictoriaGraysonTalk 03:10, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have just seen this has been added as improper referencing. I do not understand why? Is this really the way people are treated on here, I hoped as someone new that if I made a mistake it would be pointed out to me, not just labelled "improper" without any explanation. I apologise if it was done wrongly, I am new and am doing my best. I was trying to show that the name Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is used in the article and therefore it was appropriate to include it in the body of the text, like a quote almost. I thought this was helpful. I am not at all happy with the way this discussion in general has been handled and will seek out some advice on whether this is how all discussions are handled. I have found people to be unhelpful and their actions aggressive, such as removing my hard work and labelling it "improper" with no explanation.HighWindows (talk) 13:54, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Again thank you for your response Montana. I thought the references I used showed a wide range of reliable sources, BBC, Independent, scholarly books and articles that are used as references elsewhere, to be honest I spent a long time looking for a range of sources because I believe I have to have good references before editing.I did not use any quotes that I felt might come from a biased source. I would like to know which sources were inappropriate or "in-house" (I am not sure what that means I am sorry) so that I can find other appropriate sources? Are you saying that Kay, Matthews and Bluck are not reliable sources and if so why? I am sorry to ask but if I am going to learn about references I need to understand what is wrong with the references I use. I actually think it would have been much more helpful if this had been explained to me before I found myself put in this section "inappropriate references" without any attempt to explain this to me.HighWindows (talk) 08:33, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to ascertain where the BBC and other sources got their information from. Is that mentioned in those sources? They may be have just used information from NKT publications and websites, or interviews with NKT members, and not checked and verified the information elsewhere. Sera Monastery apparently say they never awarded Kelsang Gyatso a Geshe degree. Anyway the title Geshe is rather like that of "Professor" or "Dr." for a PhD we never use "Professor" or "Dr." in an article title or in citations nor repeat those titles in the body of an article. Chris Fynn (talk) 09:56, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improper referencing 

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thread_title:  External links modified