Talk:David Helfgott

message: Har... Har. Sp0ng 10:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, I couldn't think of a better way to describe that he'd had a movie about him and he rose to fame through it. It's short and sweet and just happens to be a common phrase. --lincalinca 12:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Rise and Shine" subheading 

message: We currently have this:
:Many of his recordings, especially that of Rachmaninoff's third piano concerto, have been criticized as lifeless and barely competent.
Shouldn't we at least cite such a scathing remark?  --Doradus 20:27, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
::Personally I think they were just being snarky. I mean he's not that great, but he's okay to listen to. I think they were somewhat justly annoyed though because truly great classical performers do not get that kind of media attention. Looking back the only thing Helfgott did to earn it was be mentally ill and have a movie made about it in his own lifetime. (Most movies about classical musicians seem to be done long after they die) I kind of figured some of the controversy concerning the movie would be here or at the Shine page though. As I recall some of his siblings indicated the movie was unfair to his father, invented allegations, and makes it seem like he was the main cause of his son's mental illness. (Which if Helfgott has schizo-affective disorder it's likely not mostly his Dad)--T. Anthony 23:36, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dude, he has a mental illness doesn't he? Seems a bit rough to say such things about probably the worlds best piano player with his condition.  202.191.107.161 07:24, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, they weren't being snarky, just honest.  Unfortunately, the criticism that his playing is "lifeless and barely competent" is true.  Anyone who compares a performance of his with that of a respected musician will hear the vast difference.  As for him being the world's best pianist with a mental illness, even that is dubious; e.g. many people believe Glenn Gould had Asperger syndrome.  But Gould is loved and respected for his musical genius, not for his illness.  The bit at the end that says he played "The Bee" is likely inaccurate, as this is a violin & piano piece by Schubert.  One would assume he played Rimsky-Korsakov's "Flight of the Bumblebee" as his did in the movie SHINE. 74.99.213.103 21:02, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  David Helfgott is not "the worlds best piano player with his condition." He's just the most famous one, and his fame is built on an extremely inaccurate movie. Rosier 08:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its inaccuracies mostly relate to his pianistic abilities, but the atrocities he endured in his life are, according to sources, if anything, highly accurate, if played down for the purposes of being bearable. Films have been made about people who've been far less notable and who've not become famous save for the film made of them. Riding in Cars with Boys comes to mind. In other words, the films tells a tale that, though not wholeheartedly accurate, is an accurate depiction of the person and life, though perhaps not of the abilities of the person in question. --lincalinca 06:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're probably referring to the movie Shine, so that discussion should happen there.  But no, it's not just his pianistic ability that is grossly misrepresented; e.g. his dad wasn't a Holocaust survivor having arrived in Australia in 1935, his mental illness was not caused by his mistreatment but inherited schizo-affective disorder, etc. 24.235.124.106 01:17, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  To clarify a bit: although i'm sure there are inaccuracies, the two cited above are misrepresentations of what's actually in the film. The dad doesn't claim to be a Holocaust survivor; he obliquely mentions the extended family (grandparents, aunts), presumably either still in Europe at the time of the story, or recently deceased.  And regardless of the nature/nurture debate, the film makes no direct mention of how influential his upbringing was on his mental illness: no doctors or mental health professionals even talk about it.  For better context, you might like to read the Shine_(film) page -- especially the two quoted letters from the film's writer/director and a researcher. Fhue (talk) 04:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barely competent? 

message: The claim that he won the ABC Instrumental and Vocal Competition 6 times is from his own website and the geocities biography (both almost exactly the same and highly questionable).  But it's not verifiable on the competition's own site (http://www.symphony.net.au/art_perf_01.html).  They list all the winners going back to 1944. 74.99.213.103 00:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ABC Instrumental and Vocal Competition 

message: The page about David Helfgott references Cyril Smith as the teacher. A link is included to Cyril Smith but unfortunately the link is not to a music teacher, but to a politician. The link should have been to Cyril Smith (pianist) instead, I believe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.10.68.249 (talk) 13:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cyril Smith reference 

message: it reads like this section of his bio had a bunch of sentences deleted or something. first it's about some other stuff, then a mention of "his onscreen performance", and then the movie is finally brought up "despite this" in the last sentence in reference to bringing him fame. the only actual discussion of the movie is mentioning that people disagree with it. --dan (talk) 03:39, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. It seems that all mention of the controversy surrounding the movie Shine and his subsequent tour have been removed. By all rights this should be the most substantial section in this article since the movie and tour are really the only things of note about him, especially the disparity between the adoring sold-out concert audiences and the unanimous critical drubbing. I rather doubt that anyone much cares that he likes cats and swimming - so does most everyone else. The deleted sections should be restored.99.233.78.251 (talk) 19:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Shine' section 

message: why should only the negative criticism be expressed in the first paragraph under "Current musical career"?
in the interest of balance, how about some praise for his recordings and performances, instead of just harsh criticism.   i can understand how unfair it may seem to classical music fans that he got to be the subject of a popular movie, but wikipedia is not the place to grind an axe. POV discussions/compromise on other Talk pages have set enough precedent. Fhue (talk) 03:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can actually find a notable critic praising his recordings and performances, feel free to post one. Ginsengbomb (talk) 19:12, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for balance 

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thread_title:  External links modified