Talk:List of dignitaries at the state funeral of Pope John Paul II

message: I grouped the European dignitaries by country.  (Alphaboi867 18:21, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's keep the list sorted alphabetically by country, not by the name of the leader. I think that's more sensible and makes it easier to find who the atendees are from a particular locale. -- Seth Ilys 18:39, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Europe 

message: First off, nice work reorganizing the article.  It's much better now.  The issue I'm bringing up now,however, concerns the allocation of seats in the basilica for the Mass of Requiem.  First, I do not believe that, apart from the authorities of the Church itself, the only people to have seats in the Basilica will be the members of national delegations.  Some people, with some prestige/influence in the Vatican, will be able to be seated inside regardless of their countries' delegation.  That was the example I had given about the Brazilian former President, Fernando Henrique Cardoso.  He will be inside, yet he's not part of the Brazilian delegation.  I will be restoring that example, although I'll integrate it with the U.S. example given, since it appears that some politicians from that country have decided to go and stand outside with the general public, which is an example of another approach to the problem of limited seating inside.  I really don't know it this was the case here (and if it wasn't, I apoligize), but since there's a history of that in other articles of Wikipedia, I would like to remind [whoever it might concern] that examples from the US take no precedent over any other examples that might have been listed before.  Once I've edited the article, we'll have two sets of examples, one from the US and one from Brazil (which is the one I had written before), which will both be there because they exemplificate two different situations for the seating arrangements.  Unless someone has an example from yet a third solution that some personality has chosen to be present at the mass, I'd ask people to have the tact of not replacing/deleting examples for country-centric purposes.  Let us apply precedence to determine which "country" has its example listed, and keep it to the necessary only.  Regards, Redux 19:05, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, in the following paragraph, the anecdote about Lyndon Johnson's absense in Winston Churchill's funeral seems off topic.  Suffice to say that Churchill's funerals had attracted a similar interest from world leaders, there's no need to get into who exactly was there and who wasn't, unless we start a specific article for that.  Regards, Redux 19:17, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: AFAIK the official members of a county's delegation are guaranteed seets in the Basilica, while all others must take their chances with the pilgrims and aren't guaranteed seats.  Eg the US Congressmembers that are going won't get any special treatment as VIPs. (Alphaboi867 19:33, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are a member of a national delegation, you are guaranteed one of the five seats that each country is entitled to.  If you are not, you can still get a seat inside, provided you have [a lot!] of prestige/influence in order to get an individual invitation.  Anyone interested in that is on his/her own though.  Fernando Henrique Cardoso, according to reports in Brazil, was able to get his seat because he was a personal friend of over 10 years of the late Pope, in addition to having his "connections" in the College of Cardinals.  Other than that, the only option is to stand outside with the crowd (as it will be the case of the US Congressmen).  Regards, Redux 20:06, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  National delegations 

message: Oops.  Someone reverted my edit so fast I thought it was a system glitch.  No countries were named according to their complete, official names.  If they were, everybody would be a "Republic", a "Kingdom" or a "Commonwealth".  As it was done, all countries were named according to their common, short names.  There's no reason why Ireland should be listed as "Republic of Ireland", unless we start renaming all countries, so that we have "Kingdom of the Netherlands", "Commonwealth of Australia" and so on.  There's no point in having it named differently because of Northern Ireland.  People from the Ulster should be listed under the United Kingdom's entry, either indiscriminately or segregated by political unit, as it was done with Serbia & Montenegro.  But we can't have an entry that completely opposes the m.o. that has been adopted for the article, not to mention that we were listing a country that, as it were, was starting with an "R" in the alphabetical place of an "I", and having Ireland listed in the "R" section, given the specifics of this article, is senseless.  I should remind people of the 3RR (although I only reverted the second time because I thought it was a system glitch, as my summary shows).  Regards, Redux 18:13, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia lists Ireland (the state) at Republic of Ireland while Ireland is the title of the article relating to the island.  Usually it's not needed to use a country's full name, but Ireland implies all of Ireland just as Korea implies all Korea, not just South/North Korea. (Alphaboi867 21:25, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I'm aware of the whole situation involving Ireland.  But I disagree that saying just "Ireland" causes confusion.  Northern Ireland is not an independent country (unlike the two Koreas), and when I hear just "Ireland" (especially in a context of countries only), I think of Dublin, not Belfast.  Under different circumstances, I would not oppose having the name "Republic of Ireland" on any article, but as I said, here the m.o. adopted was to use only the short name of each country, and as it stands, the entry for Ireland contradicts it — not to mention the whole alphabetical order thing.  As I said, Northern Ireland could not have an independent entry here, because it's not a country, but rather a part of the UK, and the name "Ireland", as I see it, does not envoke the whole of the island when we are discussing countries as political entities, since Northern Ireland is not a part of the Republic of Ireland.  I can't imagine any confusion between the two by having the "Republic of Ireland" listed as just "Ireland".  And I don't suppose that anyone would think that the entry for Ireland would or should include people representing the UK region of Northern Ireland, who will be listed under the UK entry (maybe even with a political unit segregation, as it was done for Serbia and Montenegro).  Regards, Redux 21:42, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: There appears to have been confusion above: There is no long form name for Ireland - its legal name is simply "Ireland". Check Names of the Irish state or look it up on the CIA world factbook if in doubt. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 19:41, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Country names 

message: I noticed there were some Buddhist, Hinduist and Muslim religious leaders as well. Does anyone have any indication on who those might have been? Luis rib 23:19, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a clue.  I don't the Dalai Lama went since the media would have made a huge deal about it. (Alphaboi867 05:23, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Religious Leaders

message: Very nice work, and it's gratifying how few red links there are, considering how many people turned up! -- Arwel 00:54, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that impressed me, too. A very good sign regarding Wikipedia, to say the least. Tim Rhymeless  (Er...let's shimmy)  05:51, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Appreciation

message: I have replaced the TOC, as it was taking up 4 screens on a 1280x1024 res screen and that wasn't useful IMHO. I don't see many problems in keeping it up to date as the information will remain static on the whole. Greg Robson 11:46, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New TOC 

message: Does anybody know why nobody from San Marino went/was sent?
:According to  there was an official delegation of San Marino. Gugganij 23:19, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: San Marino

message: I'm not sure, but didn't Louise Harel go to the funeral instead of Bernard Landry? --67.68.92.34 00:06, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Bernard Landry (Canada/Quebec)

message: Take a look at :fr:Personnalités officielles déléguées aux funérailles du pape Jean-Paul II, the French version. Look what they've done with the flags and tables -- it's far more attractive than ours. We need to use tables like they do, with little flags. It's all quite attractive, and the layout here is rather dull. --Zantastik 09:04, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If someone is willing to spend the time and effort, then go right ahead!  Remember the Wikipedia motto, "Be bold!"  --Gerald Farinas 13:58, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Layout 

message: Here's a start:
Country	Flag	Dignitaries                    	Office of Dignitary
Finland	    	Matti Vanhanen                 	Prime Minister
France 	    	Jacques ChiracBernadette Chirac	President"First Lady"
::If someone is willing to spend the time and effort, then go right ahead!  Remember the Wikipedia motto, "Be bold!"  --Gerald Farinas 13:58, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Example

message: Congratulations to Wikipedia! 
I would like to just make a comment. The US is not mentionned nor the flag shown in the list of dignitaries at the funeral of Pope John Paul II. They were quite well represented, I think.
:Yes it is. It's just that for some reason the list is in French and therefore the USA is under E and not U. -- Necrothesp 18:16, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The dignitaries were seated alphabetically according to the French spelling of the nation's name. I'm guessing this is from the tradition of using French as the diplomatic lingua franca. --Kvasir 04:38, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Somebody forgot to include U.S. in the list... 

message: This list needs some more work to enter all the names that was present. The Vatican list has way more names than what's on here. Unfortunately the Vatican doesn't seem to allow direct external link to a document. Nevertheless, I have just added the URL to the document in English. The document can be retrieved again through searching on the Vatican website. For example, search for the document using a name of a known attendant ex. Paul Martin. --Kvasir 04:44, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The list is now accessible directly from the external link provided :) . The document is only available in English, Italian and Spanish. Curiously, the French version is not. --Kvasir 21:16, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: For anyone working to complete the list for your countries of interest, please double check against the Vatican list. As far as I know, most countries were limited to 5 seated for the Funeral Mass. The rest not on the list should go on to the "Unofficial Delegate" section at the bottom of the page. I know it's confusing because these people may sometimes be referred to as the "Official Delegate" by their home countries. --Kvasir 11:11, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Completing the list 

message: I added the official delegation in the Philippines as reported here  --Jojit fb 10:20, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please double check with the official list provided by the Vatican found in the external link section. The Vatican list gives only 5 names for the Philippines. As I understand most countries were limited to 5 official delegates to be seated in the VIP section for the funeral. Leonida Vera and Hermilando Mandanas were probably part of the official delegation but didn't get seats at the funeral. If so, please move the two individuals to the unofficial delegation at the bottom of the page. This table was only for those who were seated in the VIP section. Thanks. P.S. your news article did not list a Howard Dee as part of the delegation. Maybe there was a substitution. Could you please confirm that? --Kvasir 10:59, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: According to this news article , former ambassador to the Holy See Howard Dee was in the historic Philippine Airlines flight going to the Vatican.  But I could not confirm if he was in the VIP section for the funeral.  I could be wrong but I think Leonida Vera was seated there instead because she is the incumbent ambassador to Holy See. --Jojit fb 03:35, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Official delegation in the Philippines

message: What a lice list.  Well done, everyone.  I would nominate it on WP:FLC, but it needs some references. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:14, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: FLC

message: According to :Image:Pope John Paul II funeral dignitaries.png, Libya is one of the many countries that sent dignitaries to the funeral of Pope John Paul II. However, there is no Libyan delegation in this list. Is the list incomplete or is the image wrong? Aecis No running, shouting or piddling in the shallow end 19:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Libya is listed at the vatican site --Astrokey44 13:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Libya 

message: :Image:ILO logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:ILO logo.png

message: :Image:OSCE logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:OSCE logo.jpg

message: He definitely wasn't there, he wanted first but than didn't take the journey.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.134.79.39 (talk) 15:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Nelson Mandela

message: Prime Bishop Robert M Nemkovich of the Polish National Catholic Church was also in attendance  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.57.235.150 (talk) 15:37, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: PNCC

message: I've deleted the Myanmar (dubbed Burma on the article) entry. Removing Myanmar delegates from the list - this is not sourced; it is not included on the Vatican's list per the Vatican website; also Holy See uses "Myanmar", not "Burma" in any event. 86.41.15.41 (talk) 21:03, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Myanmar  

message: Republic of Korea was referred to as simply "Korea" per the Vatican's list on its website. See external Link. I've changed it.86.41.15.41 (talk) 21:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Korea.  

message: For the Serbia entry (then called Serbia and Montenegro) some smarty pants has put in Kosovo delegates....unsourced. I've deleted them. 86.41.15.41 (talk) 22:15, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serbia