Talk:Terminology of the Low Countries

message: This article was not written by an English speaker, thus a lot of sentences are either grammatically wrong or confusing.
:feel free to edit it -- C mon 19:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Old stuff

message: How about a diagramm like this one  for the Netherlands too? --Soylentyellow 20:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free! What I would like to see is a map which uses different colours for 1) Holland (North+South) 2) The Netherlands (as a state) 3) the Dutch language area in Europe and 4) The low countries/BENELUX. I think a Venn Diagram is also possible but less interesting because there is no intersection only 4 different circles of different size and include the smaller circles. C mon 21:51, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: diagramm?

message: Shouldn't that be, erm, The Netherlands' embassy? What's being said in this paragraph, to me, seems to be based on something that was misinterpreted. --MooNFisH 05:56, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "The Netherlands embassy"

message: The article links to Guiana, which is forwarded to Guianas, whereas Dutch Guiana forwards to Suriname. Wouldn't the link to Guianas be out of place here? I'm not too sure about this myself though, since there is no other link in the article to Guiana. My question is more: should there be one if only dutch guiana is mentioned? --MooNFisH 05:56, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dutch Guiana was a colony within the region Guiana, and taking its name from the region; that's relevant, I think.  —Tamfang 06:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Guiana

message: Ehm, to confuse things even further: the eastern part of North Holland is actually the historic region of West Frisia. The distinction was dropped officially in 1815, but in republican times the States would be termed "The States of Holland and West Frisia".
One might also add that Papiamento, the language spoken on the Leeward Netherlands Antilles, does not know the distinction between "Holland" and "Netherlands". Rather akwardly, when wanting do denote the Queen as head of state of the whole Kingdom, including the Antilles, she is styled Reina di Reino Hulandes, "Queen of the Dutch Kingdom"...--129.125.156.37 07:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  West-Frisia and Papiamento 

message: This section is interesting but fails to note that the Low Countries is not only a historical tzerm but also  a geographical one. TinyMark 09:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Low Countries?? 

message: This is not a comparable example as we are ignoring language.  If someone when speaking English uses "England" to refer to the whole of the "UK" they are indupitably being incorrect (although this sort of sloppiness is commonplace, and I'm sure I do it a lot).  But when someone speaking English says "Holland" they are using an English word for a country that a Dutch-speaking person would probably call, in Dutch, "Nederland" (we could also, in English, say "The Netherlands".  The fact that there is a Dutch word "Holland" which refers to a region of "Nederland" is not really relevant (although clearly confusing and provoking of debate).  Analogously, people call the Swedish city of "Göteborg", when speaking English, "Gothenberg" and Swedish people don't seem to mind, and probably wouldn't mind even if there was a suburb of "Göteborg" that happened to be called "Gothenberg".  Same for "Bombay" and "Mumbai" and "Peking" and "Beijing" except that, apparently, in those cases the local governments have specifically asked English-speakers to use the new names (for varying reasons). So if the government/people of "Nederland" specifically asked English-speakers to stop calling their country "Holland", we should probably respect that (we are happy to call "Upper Volta" "Burkina Fasso"), but at present it is not wrong, it is just the (annoying to some people) English-language name for the place.  Similarly, I think it is probably ok for a German-speaker to call someone from anywhere in UK "Engländer" (as that is their generally-used word for people from the UK, but not OK for me to say William Wallace was "English".—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark Carden (talk • contribs) 
:You are completely missing the point. Even in English, the words "Holland" and "Netherlands" are not synonymous, even though many people treat them as such. Richard 08:59, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: UK/England Example

message: Today I revised the entire article, always using the description "streamline" in the edit history. That is, I tried to rewrite it without changing the meaning. (It may yet benefit from another editor who tries to do the same.) Someone who knows everything ;-) should check to see that I have not corrupted the meaning. Now I have some remarks about the meaning.
Section 0: I don't understand the specific reference "Being the dominant regional area," (what does it explain about what?) or the distinction introduced by "It seems likely," and "More likely," (is it even a distinction?).
Section 1: Maybe the half-paragraph "Such use of a part to designate its whole ..." should be relegated to a footnote.  
late 17th century: Is there no relation between English-language names for the Dutch, their country, and their language are the period before 1688 (was it 1664-88?) when many of the British were exiles in Holland, and the subsequent conquest or insurrection called the Glorious Revolution? --And also no relation to the global  rivalry between the countries?
Dutch in America: I suspect that Dutch is simply a corruption of Deutsch. I may be wrong. A history of American slang may help because Dutch for the German people or for a German-American man may be slang. --P64 (talk) 01:53, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  streamline 

message: The Netherlands is not a correct term. Nor is Holland.
The correct translation is Netherland (no, not Neverland).
Holland is an archaic term used to describe the ancient Netherlands, which at that time were wooded or forested, giving rise to the expression Holtland, which became Holland.
Currently, there are only two provinces which retain this name: Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland. These are two provinces (of thirteen) with the name Holland in them.
The Netherlands is correctly translated as the "Low Countries". This includes part of nowadays Belgium. Although Dutch is spoken in all these regions, the Flemish are not Dutch but Belgian. There is a great dispute wether Flemish is a dialect or a separate language. This debate continues today.
The distinction is therefore difficult. The none mountainous region stretching to the North Sea is the "Low Countries" but in part they are the Netherlands, but a significant part is nowadays Belgium. The fact that the Netherlands are called the "Low Countries" in other languages confuses (French: Pays Bas, Spanish: Pajos Bajos) things even more. But this is in part caused by historical reasons. Under French and Spanish rule the Low Countries consisted of the Southern and Northern Low Countries. Meaning the none mountainous region stretching to the North Sea, where Dutch was spoken. Today this distinction is no longer used. The Netherlands and Belgium are seperate sovereign states. Parts of what was called the Southern Low Countries is now part of the Netherlands.
There is even more confusion. Dutch is in some parts of the world a synonym for Deutsch or Deitsch (which means German). This is incorrect. Dutch refers to someone or the language from "Nederland". The Pennsylvania Dutch are predominantly German, they are not Dutch.
Confusing to some, except of course those living in ........ The national colour is unofficially orange. The Netherlands is a constitutional monarchy. The monarch stems from the House of Orange (named after the town in the South of France), the colour has been adopted as a national symbol.
The Orangemen wear orange in remembrance of King Wiliam, one of the ancestors of the current Queen Beatrice.
JHvW (talk) 09:32, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further confusion 

message: I went to the English site of Nederlandse Spoorwegen just now, the one to be found at this page, and rather to my surprise found the large slogan "Holland by Train". Probably not significant enough for the article, but it might be useful in some supporting context somewhere. 86.132.137.129 (talk) 16:21, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The above comment is by me. Loganberry (Talk) 16:23, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nederlandse Spoorwegen 

message: Great page. Had a lot of fun! :-))
Allow me to make some remarks (both sentences refer to the entire article and talk page)
* Belgium has 3 official languages: Dutch, French and German,
(note that, even being Belgian myself, I use the words 'Dutch' and 'French' :-)))
but the reason why the Walloon call 'Antwerpen' Anvers is the same as why the French call 'London' Londres. The 'official languages' of Belgium have nothing to do with that.
* Anyone may call people from the Netherlands what they like, but allow me to keep on calling them Dutch, like I learned in high school. I'm sure my Dutch friends will keep on doing the same.
(In high school we learn as the correct English terms:
*Nederland (country) = The Netherlands (note that the article 'The' is capitalized as it is an integral part of the country's name)
*Nederlands (language) = Dutch
*Nederlands (adjective) = Dutch
But, that being said, I'm very much aware that English is not my mother tongue and that I should leave the English terminology to the English)
David.496 (talk) 16:59, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: Currently this article is linked to the Benamingen van Nederland page on Dutch wikipedia. However, I think that the contents of the page fit better with the page Benamingen van de Lage Landen on Dutch wikipedia, if only because that page extensively treats etymological questions. Could somebody who knows how to edit Wikidata please change the link?--Ereunetes (talk) 22:38, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Moreover, I proposed a merge between the two pages on the Dutch Wikipedia.--Watisfictie (talk) 14:35, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dutch interwikilink 

message: This article was just moved from Netherlands (terminology) to Netherlands (toponymy). I don't see any discussion of the proposed move, much less a consensus for it, and I think the prior title was much better because the classifier is far more common. I've left a note on the talkpage of the editor who made the move, advising that I'm inclined to move the page back to the original title, but I also inquire here if anyone has any thoughts on the issue. Newyorkbrad (talk) 20:50, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, Netherlands (terminology) is a better classifier. Moreover I proposed a merger of this article with Names for the Dutch language, that handles about the same topic: the Netherlands as adjective, i.e. Dutch. In that case, Netherlands (toponymy) would not cover the subject at all.--Watisfictie (talk) 14:46, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article move 

message: I suggest removing the reference to the 'oer' and 'oud' prefix in the head part of this article. It is off topic for it is no explanation for the use of Holland for the whole country.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.212.165.122 (talk) 14:15, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree: When speaking English, Dutch people would commonly use the designation Holland as a reference to their own country. However, in their own language the designation Holland is used only in limited situations, like in reference to the national football team and to traditional food that is often called oerhollands.--Watisfictie (talk) 14:55, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference to oer/oud prefix 

message: I propose that Names for the Dutch language be merged into Netherlands (toponymy). Dutch is simply the adjective of the Netherlands, so both articles are explaining the same thing. "Netherlands (toponymy)" should then be renamed "Netherlands (terminology)" which covers the subject more effectively. The merged article should follow the structure of the article "Names for the Dutch language" which is more clear and explanatory. Watisfictie (talk) 15:06, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: There's been some real mess-up here.
From what I can figure out, there was an article originally at
*Netherlands (terminology)
On 23 June 2013 User:Io Herodotus moved this article (without discussion) to
*Netherlands (toponymy).
On 13 March 2016, User:Watisfictie merged a large amount of material  into this article, apparently from Names for the Dutch language but without stating so in the edit summary.
On the same date, the same user performed a cut-and-paste move of the material from Netherlands (toponymy) back to
*Netherlands (terminology), 
leaving the original pre-2016 edit history at Netherlands (toponymy).
On 14 April 2016 User:Watisfictie moved Netherlands (terminology) to 
*Low Countries (terminology) 
On 3 May 2016 admin User:Amakuru moved the old talkpage from Talk:Netherlands (toponymy) to follow the article to Talk:Low Countries (terminology), but without fixing the broken history of the article page.
On 11 June 2016, an RM was closed as moving Low Countries (terminology) to 
* Terminology of the Low Countries
This is where it is now, but only including the edit history from March 2016.
I'm going to have to do a history merge. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:10, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: OK then. Thanks for sorting this out.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:45, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page history 

message: The text implies that the name of Belgium or Belgica somehow derives from a Latinized word meaning "low country" which isn't true.  It's from a Latin approximation of a Celtic word meaning "to swell up" or something like that.  The text is either wrong or confusing and needs to be fixed.  --Jayron32 19:05, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed, I hope. Whether it needs to be in para 1 I don't know. Johnbod (talk) 09:45, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Belgica is not a Latinized name meaning "Low Country" 

message: The section "Holland (pars pro toto)" contains an image that highlights the County of Holland but also the County of Zeeland. I don't think that was intented to be shown? Thayts ••• 20:53, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image of County of Holland