Talk:Pink and White Terraces

message: If this place was destroyed in 1886 and there were photos taken before the destruction, the should be public domain (by means of expiration) by any standard and freely "grab-able" for this article. --Bobak 21:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To build on this, I see this work having possible concerns to be addressed in the US and NZ.  In the US and photo published before 1923 is in the Public Domain, thus any photo of this natural wonder would likely be legal for use in the United States.  According to New Zealand's Ministry of Economic Development, Copyright terms in NZ are less harsh than the US: life of author +50.  Unless someone took a photo of this and lived to be unbelievably old, these photos would also fall into the public domain (use this exercise: a person in NZ takes the photo in 1886 at age 20.  The person lives to be 80, dying in 1946, now add 50 yrs and we have 1996). --Bobak 23:46, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Period photos welcome

message: Is very long - I have just tidied a few errors in the Dieffenbach bit and do wonder why most of this is here and not the Dieffenbach page - one whole paragraph is simply about Dieffenbach as a person rather than any relation to the Terraces.  However I couldn't bring myself to even consider deleting it.  Possibly what it needs is for this and other bits of this section to be moved to other more appropriate pages.  Andrewgprout (talk) 06:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The whole History before the eruption section 

message: most of this as most of it is not about the terraces -some of it may be useful and appropriate for other pages but not here.
History before eruption
824AD
Ferdinand von Hochstetter estimated that the precipitation phase of the terraces began very close to 1036 years before his visit in 1860. His calculations were based on precipitation rates measured on site at this time against stable flow rates.  He mentions reference to comparisons with The Great Geyser in Iceland.
1839-1841
One of the first Europeans to visit the Rotomahana area was Johann Karl Ernst Dieffenbach. He visited Rotomahana and the Terraces while on a mission for the New Zealand Company. Dieffenbach and his assistant Symonds travelled from New Plymouth via Mount Egmont (Taranaki) and Ruapehu and then around the shores of Lake Taupo. They then travelled north, partly following the Waikato River then east towards Kakaramea (Rainbow Mountain), reaching Rotomahana Lake late one evening. They camped overnight at the mouth of the Haumi Stream.
Dieffenbach left geological notes that gave clues as to why the lake levels varied. Because there were Pohutakawa trees around the lake, he speculated that the sea level had been much higher at some stage. It is more likely that the trees grew taller and propagated faster than the volcanic fallout accumulated. It has been observed that this species of tree has adapted to the changing environment over a long period of time.
He inspired wider interest in the Pink and White Terraces with his publications. When he had completed his short stay at Rotomahana, they continued north via Lake Tarawera and the Te Ngae Mission Station to Rotorua. Dieffenbach was employed by the New Zealand Company for this excursion, and also traveled extensively throughout the North Island, making notes on flora and fauna, which can be seen in his biography at the Alexander Turnbull Library.
When Dieffenbach completed his employment by the New Zealand Company he was forced to leave the country. His studies in the North Island were completed after he left New Zealand.  When he attempted to re-enter New Zealand to continue his studies in the South Island he was refused entry.
1845-1870===
The Reverend Seymour Mills Spencer and his wife Ellen followed an ambition to carry out the role of missionary work in New Zealand. They were American and trained for missionary work in England. Spencer was posted to New Zealand to work under the missionary Thomas Chapman at the recently formed Te Ngae branch of the Church of England Mission. He was to take over the newly formed Taupo branch but due to scandal over Spencer's purported advances toward a Māori girl, the couple moved to Lake Tarawera. There they formed the first missionary post at Lake Tarawera; working with the local Māori they built a European-styled community called Te Wairoa. Spencer visited Rotomahana and Te Ariki many times during his 35 year term there. His work with the local Māori helped develop the area, and he was also instrumental in assisting explorers and traders in the vicinity. Seymour was reinstated to the church in 1850.
Te Wairoa became the starting point for tourists wishing to cross Lake Tarawera to the Rotomahana tourist attractions via canoe.Andrews,Philip.(1995). Rotorua Tarawera and The Terraces (Bibliophil and the buried village )
28–30 April 1859===
Ferdinand von Hochstetter carried out a geographic and geological survey of Rotomahana Lake and area at the request of the New Zealand Government. His Geographic and Geological survey was prepared in just three days on the lake but gave enough data to form the first map of the area.
This map, although not favoured by early scholars, has proven to be more accurate than several later attempts, although, as with other maps of the lake, the height above sea level was significantly incorrect in many locations. The relevant heights between lake levels and mountain peaks were in proportion, but varied as distance between reference points increased. Hochstetter was aware of this problem with using an aneroid device, and he advised several times in his original book Geology of New Zealand that the heights above sea level that he quoted were only as far he could measure due to variation in barometric preasures.
Hochstetter's studies and reports on terrace structuring in the Waipa and Rotorua areas reveal how the Terraces were formed, and he also made comments on the commercial possibilities of Rotomahana.
24 February 1860===
Alfred Patchet Warbrick was born near the lower pools of The White Terraces. His father, Albert Warbrick, a trader from Tauranga, had married Nga-Karauma, a Māori chief's daughter. Warbrick had been associated with the Pink and White Terraces from an early age, assisting Kate Middlemass who guided tourists and gave him his first bath in the lower White Terrace pools. He became a skilled boat builder and was involved in whale boat building before and after the 10 June 1886 eruption.
Being on the top of Maunga Makatiti on the night of the eruption, he had the best view of the eruption and sequence of eruption events. Warbrick was actively involved in rescuing many people affected by the eruption.
Warbrick later challenged Stephenson Percy Smith's declaration that the Pink and White terraces had been destroyed: and he held this view till his dying day.
Alfred Warbrick spent 45 years exploring and serving as a government guide in what was then referred to as the Wai-a-riki ("small water") country, never giving up on the hope that someone would listen to him, and encourage the Government of the day to uncover the Terraces and reinstate this eighth wonder of the world. He did manage to have a investigation authorised by the government. The investigation was carried out by Percy Smith who without proper justification again dismissed Warbrick's claim.Warbrick, Alfred.(1934) Adventures in Geyserland. Coulls Sonmerville Wilkie Limited, printers, Dunedin.
1872-1873===
Stephenson Percy Smith gave the impression that the mountain top was rough but showed no sign of volcanic vents in 1873 when he reported on his findings.
March 1881===
Dr. G. Seelhorst climbed Wahanga dome and the northern end of Ruawhai dome in search of a presumed falling star followed by reports of glowing and smoke from an area behind Wahanga. This ties in with reports of the first explosion at about 2:15 in the morning of the 10th June 1886, and lends credibility to the claim that Wahanga erupted first as suggested by Alfred Warbrick.
Alfred Warbrick viewed the same event at the same time from the top of the adjacent hills.
1880 to 1886===
Sophia Hinerangi, sometimes known as Te Paea (Tepaea), became recognised as the principal tourist guide of the Pink and White Terraces and guided the tourists in the whaling boats from Te Wairoa to Te Ariki near Lake Rotomahana. Sophia took over as principal guide from the older Kate Middlemass in the early 1880s. Both guides are well documented for their involvement in guiding tourists to the Terraces. Kate Middlemass was instrumental in guiding Seelhorst to the alleged fallen star.Sophia Hinerangi was also the last guide to take tourists to the Terraces before the eruption. Sophia observed the pre eruption violence in the thermal wonderland and the disturbances to lake tarawera water levels days before the eruption. from the Dictionary of New Zealand Biography
1884===
In 1884 a surveyor named Charles Clayton was surveying for work in the Kawerau area and described the top of Wahanga dome as volcanic with several depressions, one being approximately 200 feet deep. This is proven true by recent semifluid magma flows consolidating on top of older scoria in the same area. The Eruption of Tarawera. Report to The Surveyor General (page 43 footnote.).Smith Stephenson Percy (1986)
Stephenson Percy Smith was involved in a pre-eruption survey of Mount Tarawera which was never finalised.
Later revelations were to prove that both were correct although Clayton's report showed that Smith had not investigated the top of Wahanga to the same degree as Clayton. It is known that there were caves on the south west edge of Wahanga and that the symmetry of the Wahanga peak was upset by the 1886 rift.
08:58, 24 June 2012‎ User:Andrewgprout
===Replaced: references===
===Replaced: discussion===
* The history of European discovery and knowledge of these terraces and of the volcano which later apparently destroyed them, seems to me to be relevant. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:41, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Replaced

message: * The history of European discovery and knowledge of these terraces and of the volcano which later apparently destroyed them, seems to me to be relevant. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:41, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Replaced: discussion

message: The 824 date is someones original research - 1860 Hochstetter's visit - 1036 = 824.  This would almost be OK if the 1036 years was not a  quote about someone else's  (Forbes) age of the great Geyser in Iceland NOT the terraces.  Hochstetter stated that the terraces were thousands of years old - This information is in the formation section, which the deleted section partially repeated anyhow.  The quoted work is available on google books.  Andrewgprout (talk) 09:22, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hochstetter Iceland and the 824 date 

message: Regarding   --  Dieffenbach left geological notes that gave clues as to why the lake levels varied. Because there were Pohutakawa trees around the lake, he speculated that the sea level had been much higher at some stage. It is more likely that the trees grew taller and propagated faster than the volcanic fallout accumulated. It has been observed that this species of tree has adapted to the changing environment over a long period of time.[3]
I have checked Dieffenbach's original book on this because I just couldn't work out what was trying to be said.  What Dieffenbach did say related to lake Tarawera specifically and what that meant to the formation of the whole centre of the North Island.
Pohutukawa trees usually only grow by the sea, within about 1km, except on some lakes in the Rotorua district.  Dieffenbach was surprised to see Pohutukawa trees inland and wondered if this meant that the land the lakes were on had once been at sea level and the lakes had been formed when a branch of the sea and been uplifted.  This in hindsight is not the situation but was good thinking.  However it really has nothing to do with the P&W terraces.  The "trees growing taller" bit, etc in the second sentence is just some ones own pet theory which does not appear to relate to what Dieffenbach was suggesting.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewgprout (talk • contribs) 04:50, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There are at least 11 species of Metrosideros/ excelsa.The species flourishing around lake Tarawera is Kermadecensis and there is a clear indication that they exist in areas where there has been thermal activity and survive by racing thermal layers.Herbyfitz (talk) 03:04, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The riddle of the pohutukawa trees 

message: I am confused by what the "presumed falling star" is and who G Seelhorst is. This section is not referenced and I can find no reference to the star or Mr Seelhorst in any primary or secondary source.  I am inclined to delete this if no proper reference is provided Andrewgprout (talk) 08:42, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The story of the Falling star can be referenced in R keam's Tarawera, The star was never proved as such but the location where it was supposed to have landed is where the first signs of the eruption occured in 1886. Sealhorst investigated the incident and came up with zero results.The details of his climb suggest that if he was looking for thermal activity he may have taken a different approach. eg he was looking for burnt areas of bush.Herbyfitz (talk) 03:14, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  March 1881