Talk:Clan of Xymox

message: Added new album Breaking Point - kilby6
Could someone list the names of the members in the band photo? --Eyrian 23:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I do not think an excessive list of all their discography is absolutely necessary; only a few related articles and a full link to their discography should be needed and/or included to replace the current one, which takes up the majority of the article already. I don't think that Wikipedia allows lists.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.11.25 (talk) 08:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discography 

message: Who removed Anka Wolbert from this page?
Amazing - this entry has been recently rewritten to remove all mention of co-founder/ songwriter/ vocalist Anka Wolbert. It now reads like a biography of Ronnie Moorings - as if he alone was the person behind the band. Every fan of Xymox knows this is not the case. Very bizarre. I wonder who it was that wanted to portray that false impression? And why?   — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muso88 (talk • contribs) 16:13, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: The Anka Wolbert case

message: i am Pieter Nooten and can only agree with anka and paste her reply here again. Also, Dutch collecting agency BUMA STEMRA owns the paper work to prove our contributions.
To state the facts:
Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings started Xymox in 1983.
Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings wrote and self-released the EP "Subsequent Pleasures" in 1984.
Pieter Nooten joined the band and became the third songwriter in 1985.
Xymox signed to 4AD in 1985 (changing the band's name to Clan of Xymox), and released two albums, "Clan of Xymox" (1985) and "Medusa" (1986). All songs on these albums are jointly written by Anka Wolbert, Pieter Nooten and Ronny Moorings.
Under Polygram Clan of Xymox released two albums, "Twist of Shadows" (1989) and "Phoenix" (1991). All tracks on both albums are written by Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings, with contributions by Pieter Noorten. During this period Nooten teamed up with Michael Brook to record 'Sleeps with the fishes', also released on 4AD.
After "Phoenix", Anka Wolbert and Pieter Nooten left the band to pursue solo careers.
Anka Wolbert released "Cocoon Time" and Pieter Nooten released his album "Ourspace ", both on I-Rain Records, 2006.
Pieter Nooten released a second solo album in 2010, "Here is Why" (Rocket Girl).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nutville (talk • contribs) 11:03, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  someone keeps changing this page to erase or reduce the influence of pieter nooten and anka wolbert in the xymox history. 

message: please state your name as you seem to only want to put emphasis on aka and pieter and forget as much as possible of ronny for some mysterious reason. might it be you are or were part of the band ? I do have articles backing up my edits and your edits seem to be general , it is bland and unjust. 
Also you stand warned from being barred. State your relation with the band or your sources.
===Reply from Anka Wolbert, 13:31, 30 December 2010===
I am Anka Wolbert. I was a member of Clan of Xymox from 1983 to 1991.
Please note that Wikipedia requires you sign your comments or correspondence.
Please also note that warnings on Wikipedia must be levelled through the correct channels, and properly backed up with legitimate justification.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Anka_Wolbert
Anka Wolbert (talk) 16:13, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Message from Knowitallfortoday to Anka Wolbert, 05:21, 30 December 2010

message: I am Anka Wolbert. I was a member of Clan of Xymox from 1983 to 1991.
Please note that Wikipedia requires you sign your comments or correspondence.
Please also note that warnings on Wikipedia must be levelled through the correct channels, and properly backed up with legitimate justification.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Anka_Wolbert
Anka Wolbert (talk) 16:13, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Reply from Anka Wolbert, 13:31, 30 December 2010

message: Please substantiate your reasons for deleting text on History: "Confirm timing of original members Wolbert and Nooten leaving Xymox:" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Clan_of_Xymox&diff=404838810&oldid=404837855
*Well, without wanting to speak for Knowitall, it was basically unverified. Please provide reliable sources. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 21:20, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: To Knowitallfortoday: Regarding removal of page content

message: This is so strange - someone has removed Anka to make it appear as if Ronny Moorings started Xymox. What's going on? Who is "Knowitallfortoday (talk | contribs)" and why do they not want Anka there? Surely there must be some rule against this in Wiki? Anyone know how to report it? Here are the strange revisions:
Revision as of 17:30, 19 June 2010 (edit) Luckas-bot (talk | contribs) m (robot Adding: uk:Clan of Xymox)
← Previous edit
"In 1982 Anka Wolbert and Ronnie Moorings began making music in The Netherlands under the name Xymox, self-publishing the EP "Subsequent Pleasures" in 1983."
Revision as of 13:09, 20 June 2010 by Knowitallfortoday (talk | contribs)
"Ronny Moorings began making music in The Netherlands under the name Xymox, self-publishing the EP "Subsequent Pleasures""Muso88 (talk • contribs) 16:44, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Who edited Anka out of this Wiki page?

message: It has come to my attention that someone is contiually editing this Wikipedia page to remove my name and delete information referring to my contributions to the band. (These changes can be repeatedly seen in the "View History" tab in the top menu of this Wiki page).
===User Warning to Knowitallfortoday===
WR: UW Introducing deliberate factual errors; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Knowitallfortoday Anka Wolbert (talk) 13:15, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding the dispute of facts: Clarification by Anka Wolbert

message: WR: UW Introducing deliberate factual errors; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Knowitallfortoday Anka Wolbert (talk) 13:15, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: User Warning to Knowitallfortoday

message: Anka Wolbert (AKA Anke Wolbert) and Ronny Moorings started Xymox in 1983. 
Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings wrote and self-released the EP "Subsequent Pleasures" in 1984.
Pieter Nooten joined the band and became the third songwriter in 1985.
Xymox signed to 4AD in 1985 (changing the band's name to Clan of Xymox), and released two albums, "Clan of Xymox" (1985) and "Medusa" (1986). All songs on these albums are jointly written by Anka Wolbert, Pieter Nooten and Ronny Moorings.
Under Polygram Clan of Xymox released two albums, "Twist of Shadows" (1989) and "Phoenix" (1991). All tracks on both albums are written by Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings, with contributions by Pieter Noorten. During this period Nooten teamed up with Michael Brook to record 'Sleeps with the fishes', also released on 4AD.
After "Phoenix", Anka Wolbert and Pieter Nooten left the band to pursue solo careers.
Anka Wolbert released "Cocoon Time" and Pieter Nooten released his album "Ourspace ", both on I-Rain Records, 2006.
Pieter Nooten released a second solo album in 2010, "Here is Why" (Rocket Girl).
Anka Wolbert (talk) 21:01, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just a reminder that such a horse would not in fact constitute a "reliable source" in this encyclopedia, because here, "reliable source" is what Wikipedia defines as a reliable source: Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. Muso88 (talk) 20:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: To state the facts:

message: According to the Xymox biography in the Dutch Music Encyclopedia, Clan Of Xymox was formed in 1981 by Ronny Moorings and Anke Wolbert. The EP Subsequent Pleasures was released in 1983. Hence the discrepancy between the dates in The great indie discography and the Dutch Music Encyclopedia. For the sake of clarity, I suggest the date of formation of the band is taken as 1981. Anka Wolbert (talk) 15:16, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Date of formation of the band vs date of first release

message: According to the Xymox biography written Michael Sutton, reviewer for the  All Music Guide, Xymox supported Dead Can Dance on their UK tour.
Muso88 (talk) 14:30, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation for Xymox supporting Dead Can Dance on UK tour

message: Xymox recorded two John Peel sessions according to the BBC website; on 4th June 1985 and 3rd November 1985. Muso88 (talk) 14:11, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation for John Peel sessions

message: Please change "commented on Moorings' limited knowledge of English and praised the production by Peter Walsh (of Simple Minds fame).[10]"
it is a quote out of a review from Spin Magazine. it is not factual and a mere opinion. This way you can make each band/group / person look bad because each band/ group / person has more than 1 bad review in their career.
As Wikipedia should be factual I think this remark should be deleted. It is simply not a fact
Controller666 (talk) 18:30, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Very well. If you can find reliable sources documenting Moorings' English as flawless and accent-free, and there are many more references to that viewpoint than the viewpoint of SPIN's columnist, then we can eliminate the quote as a "minority viewpoint" that shouldn't be granted undue weight. (Or perhaps you object to him praising the production by Peter Walsh?) Elizium23 (talk) 22:38, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Controller666, 16 January 2011 

message: Critical analysis of the album Twist of Shadows (at least, that which was attributed as required by WP:NPOV and WP:NFC) has been removed to the new article on the album. If critical analysis is to be included here, it will need to be balanced; what we had was one sourced review of one album. (Note: I have also sourced unsourced information in the article and removed what could not be sourced.) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Critical analysis

message: Seems pretty likely the following IP addresses are the same editor, given the nature of edits and making the same mistake of trying to use templates in an edit summary:
*95.211.27.70
*184.95.56.144
*72.13.91.134
While some of their edits may be valid, they're buried under a mass of external links & supposition.  As there seems to be some IP hopping going on, there's no point leaving a message on the IP talk page, so it's here instead.  Some of the edits may be useful, but they're buried under supposition and external links.   a_man_alone (talk) 15:53, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multiple IP's being the same editor 

message: There are two distinct phases for the band: 1981-1991, and 1991 to present.
1981-1991 includes the formation of the band and their signing to the major labels 4AD and Polygram. During this time there were three songwriters in the band, being Moorings, Nooten and Wolbert.
After 1991 Nooten and Wolbert had left the band. There were no further releases under the major labels.
1991 to present is the second phase of the band.
In this period Moorings continued the band under the same name but as the sole songwriter and vocalist. He recruited new live members but wrote all subsequent material by himself. 
These two phases (1981-1991, and 1991 to present) are commonly referred to in articles, message boards and amongst fans, sometimes using the terms "early Xymox" and "later Xymox" to indicate these two distinct periods. 
It makes sense to keep this distinction in the Wiki article, since the exit of Nooten and Wolbert were material events. Not only were Wolbert and Nooten co-songwriters in the first phase of the band, but also provided vocals on many of the best known tracks. As composers, both Nooten and Wolbert were integral to the band. Both were also key musicians, both as recording artists and on stage.
The Wiki article is obviously structured around these two phases, but a person (or persons?) keeps  - without discussion - reverting other editors edits to remove the heading "1981 -1991"
For instance, these unexplained reverts, all of which specifically remove the heading "History: 1981-1991"
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Clan_of_Xymox&diff=439345145&oldid=439052884
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Clan_of_Xymox&diff=439846072&oldid=439820965
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Clan_of_Xymox&diff=441103391&oldid=440414531
Muso88 (talk) 10:06, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two phases of the band: 1981-1991, and 1991 to present 

message: Conflicting edits have been made in the past on defining the band's genre. These edits seemed to be focused on defining Clan of Xymox as either a 'goth' band or a 'dark wave' band. To go with Muso88 above, there are two distinct phases of the band. I think no one would disagree the 'early' Xymox leaned more toward dark wave, new wave and synth pop. The 'later' Xymox turned very goth indeed. Giving all the (referenced) success the 'early' Xymox gained in the 1980s,  I believe it's relevant to describe their musical progression in the first paragraph, rather than attempting to define the band as either/or.
As for the Dark wave genre, I referenced the book: 'Dark-Wave-Band: The Cure, Deine Lakaien, Goethes Erben, Clan of Xymox, the Sisters of Mercy, Joy Division, Death in June',  published in 2010 ((Cannongate, ISBN ‪1158791135, 9781158791132‬). Those were exactly the bands at the time seen as belonging to the 'dark wave genre'. Please refer to the article for all references to the other genre(s).
Chtonic (talk) 12:50, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre 

message: As a fan, I can't help but be disappointed by the actions of those who seek to redefine the band's history through this page, it's not that surprising therefore that some inaccuracies have crept in.  For example, the idea that the band reverted it's name to "Xymox" before releasing "Medusa" in 1987 is simply not borne out by the record sleeve, which is clearly in the name of "Clan of Xymox" and released in 1986!  Ho hum.  I'll try to find a definitive reference that is more reliable than the one cited, but if anyone else finds one before me... Dotdotdotcomma (talk) 17:30, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual inaccuracies 

message: Some members of the original lineup (pre-Polygram) have publicly commented on revisiting the 4AD releases in some capacity.  As these statements are of the public interest, and made by early authors of Xymox materials, they have been included here. Protophobic (talk) 21:23, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't include this content unless it can be found in reliable, published sources. The blog post doesn't mention COX and the Facebook posts are self-published, non-notable and completely unreliable. - MrX 21:55, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible 4AD Reunion 

message: This article currently describes 2012's Kindred Spirits as "well received."  I notice that:
1) it is the lowest rated CoX album on http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/clan_of_xymox  -a full 24 points lower than than their 2nd lowest rated album.  
2) "...Xymox’s renditions of these famous numbers cling so close to the originals that they can’t help but appear weak in comparison. Ronny strains and sings out of range..."  "...Kindred Spirits can’t be seen as anything less than a failure."  http://www.idieyoudie.com/2012/10/clan-of-xymox-kindred-spirits/
3) Rating: 6/10 "...needless to say the originals hold much more class than the covers."  http://terrarelicta.com/index.php/reviews/all-reviews/1050-clan-of-xymox-kindred-spirits-cd-2012-review
4) Avg Rating: 3.25 / 5  http://www.discogs.com/Clan-Of-Xymox-Kindred-Spirits/master/479111
5) Rating: Tragicistani: so bad, armed villagers with pitchforks and torches should run the artist out of the country for inflicting this abomination on the human race.  "There really is no need for this record to have been released. I just don't see the point or purpose..."  http://mappedbywhatsurroundedthem.blogspot.com/2012/10/album-review-clan-of-xymox-kindred.html
6) Stars: 2.5  "...a curious if ultimately pointless exercise..."  http://regenmag.com/reviews/clan-of-xymox-kindred-spirits/
I think the article should more accurately described that album as "poorly received." Fp cassini (talk) 21:04, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I support removing the unsourced claim that the album was well received, but I would oppose adding that it was poorly received based on blog posts and sites that simply tally votes. We would need to use news or book sources that make the claim directly, otherwise we would be in violation of WP:SYNTH.- MrX 21:58, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kindred Spirits "well received"? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Clan of Xymox. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070930171402/http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=22825_0_2_0_C to http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=22825_0_2_0_C
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 04:24, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Can this be added to the intro paragraph? I would assume it's either /ˈziːmɑks/ (ZEE-mox) or /ˈzɪmɑks/ (ZIM-ox). Equinox ◑ 07:56, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of "Xymox"? 

message: *"Peel referred to the band's dark and melancholic sound as "darkwave"."
Any recording of Peel's voice? The sources in the article are useless. --RivetHeadCulture (talk) 23:07, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Peel