Talk:East Karelian uprising

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved to East Karelian uprising, a suggestion for which there was unanimous support. (non-admin closure)  Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:51, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: East Karelian uprising and Soviet–Finnish conflict of 1921–1922 →  – Having two titles for the same thing is kinda redundant. It seems like pro-Finnish sources prefer the more localised naming of 'Karelian Uprising', though to stay neutral, it might be more optimal to use the 'Soviet–Finnish conflict of 1921–1922'. --► Sincerely: Solavirum 14:14, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

text: * Strongly disagree. The Finnish state (i.e. Finland) was not participant in the conflict which was primarily an anti-Bolshevik uprising. There doesn't appear to be much support for the 'Soviet-Finnish conflict of 1921-22' either. On google search most results point back to this very page. It was the era Soviet history writing which did its utmost to place the emphasis on Finland in the conflict to create the casus belli (and later justify it) for the later actions - so the suggested title is far from neutral. - Wanderer602 (talk) 17:02, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

text: *:, so, 'East Karelian uprising' fits better? I don't mind this option either. --► Sincerely: Solavirum 06:49, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

text: *::Yes, it would fit better. In my opinion that is. It is worth noting that ru-wiki refers to this as the Вторая советско-финская война or (per Google Translate) The Second Soviet-Finnish War so it might be a bit contentious. - Wanderer602 (talk) 04:35, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

text: *::Though you should cite your sources for WP:CONSENSUS and WP:RS's sake. --► Sincerely: Solavirum 06:49, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

text: *Disagree (but not strongly) for "Soviet–Finnish conflict of 1921–1922". I acknowledge I'm not too familiar with the topic and I'm mostly working from what's written in the article, but framing  as solely a conflict between two nation states (as the proposed title, in my view, does) does not seem proper. If East Karelian uprising (either with or without years) is acceptable given any recent'ish Russian scholarship, I'd be inclined to go with that. If it is not acceptable, then I suppose the current paragraph of a heading is at least kinda balancing the viewpoints, even if it's not something I'd ever Google for. -Ljleppan (talk) 09:13, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

text: * Oppose, because this was not a Soviet–Finnish international conflict. Of the two English-language sources cited in the article, the article “‘Karelian Fever’” only refers to “The Russian and Finnish Civil Wars of 1917 to 1921.” The Ethnohistorical dictionary article “Karelian” just skips past this conflict, and the article “Finn” says “despite their cultural ties to the Russians, most Karelians expressed the desire to become part of Finland. When that did not materialize, Karelian nationalists rebelled against Moscow, but Soviet troops quickly crushed the rebellion.” In light off the latter, I would be okay with moving this to East Karelian uprising or similar. The first article gives some possible English-language sources to check: “On the Civil War see Anatole Mazour, Finland between East and West (Princeton, NJ, 1956), pp. 49–55; D. G. Kirby, Finland in the Twentieth Century (Minneapolis, MS 1979), pp. 40–63; C. Jay Smith, Finland and the Russian Revolution, 1917-1922, (Athens, GA, 1958); Anthony Upton, The Finnish Revolution, 1917–1918 (Minneapolis, MS, 1980); Pekka Kalevi Hamalainen, In Time of Storm: Revolution, Civil War, and the Ethnology Issue in Finland (Albany, NY, 1979); D. G. Kirby, ed., Finland and Russia 1808–1920, from Autonomy to Independence: A Selection of Documents (London, 1975), pp. 143–256.” —Michael Z. 19:45, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

text: I see a overall protest to the first proposal, but general consensus for the uprising option. If no one objects, I'll move the article to "East Karelian uprising". --► Sincerely: Solavirum 05:49, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You should probably wait for someone to close the move request when it expires. It's possible to find consensus for an option other than the one that was originally proposed. (t · c) buidhe 07:55, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 21 November 2021