Talk:Charles Rangel

message: I saw Rangel at the National Press Club on March 30. He made a false statement. I reported it here. Someone deleted it. I have put it back. How does this work so that people can't take out critical info? [14:43, April 1, 2006 Getitright]
I've taken the False Statement out again.  While I don't doubt the veracity of the report, it's just a factoid, not something worthy of inclusion in this fairly limited biography.  If this statment caused any major controvery or if it's indicative of some larger element of Rangel's biography, than it should be included as such.  In isolation, it's meaningless.  [19:36, April 23, 2006 68.167.196.237]
Does "Flase Statements by Rangel" sound biased to you?  [19:36, April 23, 2006 68.167.196.237]
Even more so than the original statement.  It violates the NPoV.  Including a "false statements by X" section indicates political bias unless there is a specific reason that false statements by this individual should be noteworthy, such as a perjury allegation.  Just being a Representative isn't really enough.  -- Dajagr 01:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  False statement 

message: The lack of information pertaining to Rangel's view on the draft is so revealing of Wikipedia as a whole. For years, Wikipedians have been sniveling, "oh dear, Bush is bringing back the draft, Bush is bring back the draft," but because it's brought up by a Democrat, I'm sure scores of you will find it so very thoughful an idea. Aside from the blatant bias, the basis for his suggested change in policy is deserving of an "I'm a Stupid A******" tag at the top of the main article. Haizum 05:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Draft 

message: Maybe this article should be protected?  it seems like there is a lot of vandalism regarding Rangel's support of the draft.(That F***** N*****).  While I am 100% opposed to a draft, I think that protection might be temporarily necessary, especially since Rangel has brought up the issue recently in the news .  OneWorld22 08:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, that will keep the truth suppressed until it blows over as a news story. Haizum 10:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Vandalism is truth? OneWorld22 03:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Protection

message: I added a section, under controversies, about the comments made by Rangel on Fox News on 26NOV06.  I'm pretty sure it is an issue that deserves to be addressed here.  While, in the interest of disclosure I am forced to admit that I find the comments disgusting and inappropriate, I have tried to cover it as dispassionately as possible.  Lordjeff06 18:36, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: statements about the troops

message: The guy leads the Ways and Means committee, yet I searched the article and did not fine the word "tax".  ???  This is the same guy that proposed the "Mother of all tax reforms / hikes"... correct?  Morphh  (talk) 20:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Taxation?

message: It says in the intro 
Mr. Rangel has never held a private-sector job, owned a business, or met a payroll. He has spent his entire adult life working for one or another government agency.
Later it says
After graduating law school, Rangel passed the state bar exam and worked in private practice for a year.
Which is true?
168.7.228.35 (talk) 22:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Rangel worked for the prominent black law firm Weaver, Evans & Wingate after graduating from law school.  The section dealing with this period has now been greatly expanded, and readers can judge for themselves how much Rangel is a creature of government.  Wasted Time R (talk) 00:46, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jobs 

message: I'd have thought that Charlie Rangel is the name he's more commonly known by and should therefore be the title of the page. Anyone disagree? — Lincolnite (talk) 08:14, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Article title

message: His father was born in Ponce, Puerto Rico and his mom was born where?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.173.77 (talk) 14:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parent 

message: Rangel, the Democratic chairman of the tax- writing House Ways and Means Committee a cheat !! See : http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=an6bTCY4Ar7M&refer=us .  Greetings from Germany. 79.210.68.73 (talk) 11:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ha ha, can you believe it 

message: Not for the first time, a Wikipedia article is being used as a medium to report current news.  The result is that the section on the current financial controversy is already longer than the section which covers a career of almost forty years.  Most noticeably, three extensive paragraphs deal with events of the last five days.  This is inappropriate for an encyclopaedia.  The section needs to be radically trimmed: this isn't the place for editors to report the news.KD Tries Again (talk) 20:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's possible that this could be the most relevant thing that he's ever done during his 40 year career. He's the head of the government agency that writes the tax laws, and he didn't pay his taxes. That is very significant, and deserves a sizable portion of the article. If it gets too big, it can be spun off into a seperate article. Grundle2600 (talk) 01:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a POV, but a controversial one.  If the story seems so important, I agree that creating a separate article might be the best solution.KD Tries Again (talk) 14:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  It would be like finding out that Bill Gates used Linux instead of Windows. Grundle2600 (talk) 14:35, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

text:  I agree the information is important.  But maybe it does need to be consolidated? Wallamoose (talk) 21:58, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be remarkable to find out that Bill Gates used Linux.  Would it become the main focus of an encyclopaedia article about him?  I would hope not.KD Tries Again (talk) 15:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Things like this have a tendency of swelling and then contracting as does news coverage of the topic. Give it a few weeks to flesh it out and die down. CENSEI (talk) 15:15, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

text: These are matters that have gone on for well over a decade that have only reached the press in the past few weeks. This is not about a single event that happened yesterday. If you add up the press coverage about Rangel in the past few decades, the proportion of the article about these financial reporting issues are probably in proportion to the press coverage he has received. The claim that there is an association between these financial reporting issues and his role in writing tax law is made by no less than The New York Times in this editorial (among many other such articles) and can hardly be called POV. If you can point to any failure to balance the description of these incidents, I will be more than happy to correct them. Some consolidation over time is inevitable, once the issues reach some sort of resolution. Alansohn (talk) 15:28, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Alansohn, I fully agree with you, but for one aspect : ...is made by no less than The New York Times in this editorial ... and can hardly be called POV.  Are you refering to the  General Betrayus paper here, and can you recall with how much $$$$ this non-POV paper subsidized that ad? 79.210.69.165 (talk) 12:57, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, this article from The New York Times, which is a news article and not an editorial, also talks about him not paying the taxes on his rental property. Grundle2600 (talk) 16:13, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

text: The problem with the lack of balance in this article is due to there being almost no coverage of his long career in the House.  There's a good description of his early life and pre-House career, then almost nothing, then an overly long section on mostly trivial "controversial remarks" that has been given way too much weight.  In contrast, the section on the ethics investigations and tax issues and financial disclosures issues, while perhaps a bit excessive on detail in places and clumsily written in other places, is fully legitimate material.  But the article pretty much ignores Rangel's House career, and since that's the thing he's most known for, one has to conclude that the article's in pretty bad shape.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please feel free to add any well sourced information about his long career in the House that you think would improve the article. Grundle2600 (talk) 02:22, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm the person who wrote the early life/early career sections a while ago, but I stalled out after that.  Long legislative careers are both difficult and sometimes somewhat dull to write about (and I've tried different approaches across the McCain, Biden, and Ted Kennedy articles among others).  Maybe you should work on the House material yourself, once you get off your topic ban.  WP:ENEMY is an excellent way to improve one's WP abilities.  Wasted Time R (talk) 23:58, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of balance 

message: I would fix it myself, but I am topic banned from political articles.
The article states, "In August 2009, Rangel amended his 2007 financial disclosure form to report more than $500,000 in previously unreported assets and income. These included a federal credit union checking account, several investment accounts, stock in Yum Brands and Pepsico, and property in Glassboro, New Jersey. [72]"
The reference is cited as "Editorial. “The Absent-Minded Chairman”, The Wall Street Journal, August 28, 2009."
However, it does not contain a link to the editorial. The link is this. Would someone else please add that link? Thank you!
Grundle2600 (talk) 19:58, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A WSJ editorial isn't a WP:RS in any case, so somebody should find a different source.  Wasted Time R (talk) 21:22, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  A reference in the article contains a mistake. 

message: The New York Post just reported: "Rep. Charles Rangel failed to report as much as $1.3 million in outside income -- including up to $1 million for a Harlem building sale -- on financial-disclosure forms he filed between 2002 and 2006, according to newly amended records. The documents also show the embattled chairman of the Ways and Means Committee -- who is being probed by the House Ethics Committee -- failed to reveal a staggering $3 million in various business transactions over the same period." This information should be added to the article. Grundle2600 (talk) 20:18, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  New tax information 

message: This bill allows all taxpayers to have the same exemption from punishment over non-payment of taxes that was given to Rangel. This is notable, because Rangel is the head of the committee that writes tax law, and he was not punished for non-payment of taxes the way that most people would be. It has been covered by Politico, The New York Post, The Washington Examiner, and National Review. thomas.loc.gov has the full text of the bill. Grundle2600 (talk) 12:31, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:56, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The Rangel Rule Act of 2009 (HR 735)

message: The editor using AT&T Mobility IPs to add the topic of "Rum Bailout" is invited to discuss the addition here to gain consensus rather than to edit war (,,,,,,). --4wajzkd02 (talk) 23:03, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Moreover, whatever Rum Bailout content does get put in the article, must only be summarized in the lead section; the details and cites belong in the appropriate section in the body of the article, which I've now done.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:39, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rum Bailout 

message: "Once there, Rangel rose rapidly in the Democratic ranks, combining solidly liberal views with a pragmatic approach to getting things done."  Should either be removed or rewritten...this isn't a fan page  —Preceding unsigned comment added by JahnTeller07 (talk • contribs) 16:27, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Rangel rose rapidly in the House, due to his political skills, hard work, thorough knowledge of legislative matters, and genial manner.[31]  In 1974, he became the first black ever named to the House Committee on Ways and Means,[2][36]  a position he assumed in 1975 (and left the Judiciary Committee),[35]  and by 1979 had become the chairman of its important Subcommittee on Health.[31]  In 1976, he was named to the House Select Committee on Narcotics Abuse and Control.[31]  By 1979, Rangel was a member of the influential House Democratic Steering and Policy Committee.[31]  Rangel combined his solidly liberal views – interest group ratings in 1978 indicated he was the most liberal member of the New York State congressional delegation – with a pragmatic approach to getting things done.[31][36]  Rangel built alliances with others in Congress (collaboring for example with Michigan Republican Guy Vander Jagt on welfare reform measures), with people in governmental agencies, and with the Carter administration.[36]  In some cases Rangel was criticized for being too pragmatic, such as when he switched his position on natural gas deregulation; Rangel denied that he did so in exchange for the authorization of a new federal building in Harlem.[36]  Rangel said of himself, "I guess I'm practical, but you have to live with yourself and make sure you are not so practical that you sell out a part of yourself."[36]
Everything in there is sourced, and those same sources apply to the summary text in the lead.  And by the way this Wikipedia article is clearly not a fan page, since large portions of it are devoted to Rangel's recent ethics problems.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:36, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should be removed. 

message: Title says it all.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.104.59.114 (talk) 18:46, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Says it all about you, actually.  Wasted Time R (talk) 00:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Wasted Time why did you erase what I wrote in reply to this? Then you put in the history notes of this page that you were wiping everything I wrote because I'm a moron. Who do you think you are? You aren't special. You must be really lonely and insecure and editing here makes you feel like you are important. You have no right to talk about me like you did or erase my comments. Why didn't you erase this guys's comments? He sounds like more of a moron than me and a racist to boot. You didn't erase it because you made your reply 'Says it all about you, actually' and want everyone to see it and think you're cool. If you have such a need for attention and approval I feel real sorry for you bud.98.165.103.109 (talk) 15:32, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I cut your comments because they were about obnoxious and uninformed comments about Rangel in general (for your information, Rangel's early successes happened in the era before affirmative action became commonplace), and not suggestions about how to improve this article.  See WP:TALK re "Removing prohibited material such as libel, personal details, violations of policy about living persons, or copyright violations."  But you are right, I should have cut 38.104.59.114's post too, instead of trying to make a clever remark about it.  Wasted Time R (talk) 16:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cut him slack, he's black! 

message: I'm new here and I guess that Wasted Time dude thinks he's special or something. He erased everything I wrote then put in the notes 'wipe this moron's further comments' about me. But check this out. He didn't erase the other guy's paragraph above this which really should be considered racist. Wasted Time didn't erase that guy's stuff becasue Wasted Time made what he thinks is a cool reply and wants everyone to see it and think he's cool. Wasted Time will probably erase this to so can someone answer me quick. I want to go about it the official way.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.165.103.109 (talk) 15:37, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: he's an old guy, a know-it-all, been around for a long time and has connections. you can't win and will just get yourself banned. he's picked on people before.64.55.43.2 (talk) 05:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Be my guest.  WP:ANI.  Wasted Time R (talk) 17:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I would mention to Mr. IP, not knowing the basis of his complaints and frankly not having time/interest to explore them, that as he will see at the AN/I page, raising an issue at that page can lead to a focus on the editor of both the complainant and the target of the complaint.  Sanctions can be meted out to either, once the complaint has been lodged.  Having said that, as WT indicates, if you feel you have a legitimate complaint, ANI is the way to go.  Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 03:41, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: How do I file a complaint against editor Wasted Time?

message: Both the first sentence of the lede of this article, as well as the CBC article itself, state that he is a "founding member" of the Congressional Black Caucus.  But the CBC article indicates that it was founded in 1969.  He was not in Congress until two years later.  Perhaps someone can square this circle.  Thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 07:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: See this history of the CBC.  There was a predecessor group, the Democratic Select Committee, which began in 1969.  But it was reformed and renamed as the Congressional Black Caucus in early 1971, when Rangel was in the House, and Rangel thus is considered one of its founding members.  (The Congressional Black Caucus article says the same thing.)  I've added this as a cite for the statement, as the previous cite was no longer working.  Wasted Time R (talk) 11:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, WT.  I guess I didn't (and still don't) quite understand that from the text of the CBC article, which states ... "The Caucus was founded in 1969[8] by a group of black members of the House of Representatives .... Founding members were ... Charles Rangel ..."  Perhaps that should be improved? --Epeefleche (talk) 20:33, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now reworked the "Origins" section in that article.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:45, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Great work.  It now makes perfect sense (even to me).  Thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 02:27, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

text: This remains an issue.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:40, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, sorry, meant to respond earlier.  The photo's source here has the caption "The 13 founding members of the newly formed CBC gathered for a picture."  I read that to mean it was taken at the time of the founding, which was 1971.  Note that it could not have been taken later than 1972, because one of the representatives pictured, George W. Collins, died in a plane crash that year.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:06, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Founding member of the Congressional Black Caucus? 

message: Someone added the year 1971 to the photo caption.  I was wondering what the basis for that is.  Thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 15:11, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This remains an issue.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:40, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, sorry, meant to respond earlier.  The photo's source here has the caption "The 13 founding members of the newly formed CBC gathered for a picture."  I read that to mean it was taken at the time of the founding, which was 1971.  Note that it could not have been taken later than 1972, because one of the representatives pictured, George W. Collins, died in a plane crash that year.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:06, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Year?

message: The article has long had this claim, recently elevated to blockquote status:
:Rangel was instrumental in securing American materiel support for Israel during the Yom Kippur War of 1973. According to fellow Congressman Jerrold Nadler, who worked on Rangel's first campaign in 1970: "Before the Six Day War in 1967, the United States was not an arms supplier to Israel. When the Yom Kippur War broke out, people said not to supply Israel. Charlie insisted that we have to. If not for those Phantom jets, the war might have turned out different." [source "Time For Celebration", The Jewish Week, February 23, 2007.]
This is very weakly sourced, given that Nadler is a fellow Congressman from the same party and delegation.  I have just been looking to find a real source for this, and have not been able to.  The New York Times archive and Google News both have nothing about Rangel and Israel before, during, or after the Yom Kippur War.  A Google Books search didn't turn up anything either.  My copy of the Kalb brothers bio Kissinger has an extended account of the Phantom and other war equipment resupply issue that developed during the war.  It portrays Congress as clearly pushing for the resupply, while resistance came from the Pentagon and various other elements of the Nixon administration bureaucracy.  Eventually the resupply was approved and implemented, with Kissinger doing some of the leaning on the bureaucracy.  But the only member of Congress that is singled out by name in this push is Scoop Jackson.  I suspect that pretty much every New York member of Congress was loudly advocating for the resupply, which doesn't make Rangel especially unique.  So I've removed this claim from the article, and replaced it with a more general statement of Rangel being pro-Israel and specific instance re Soviet Jewry that is well sourced.  If anyone can come up with a good source for Rangel being influential in the resupply push, we can put this back in.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:36, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds reasonable to me.  BTW, I likely did the "elevating".  That was purely a copyrighting exercise, vis-a-vis existing text, and not meant to "elevate" the language at all.  Simple to block quote material of appropriate length.  I was curious about the entry myself, but had not had time to research it independently.--Epeefleche (talk) 02:19, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yom Kippur War claim removed, needs better sourcing 

message: Epeefleche, could we have a discussion on structural approach in this article?  You haven't responded to any of my points above, and now you're doing more subsectioning, all under the unhelpful edit summary "ce".  I don't see any utility in splitting up "Early legal and political career", as the section wasn't long to begin with and it destroys the natural transition that Rangel had between one and the other.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:54, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I had not taken a look at your comments, frankly, but will when I have a moment.  I've just responded to the immediately preceding one two threads.  As to in particular the sub-sectioning of "Early career" into "legal" and "political", I see that IMHO as appropriate and helpful to the reader.  The section is in fact a multi-para one.  And his legal career is naturally distinct IMHO from his political career, lending itself to a natural divide. In fact, an appreciably larger natural divide than the (acceptable) divides the articles contain of "decade", for example, within his political career.  I see the provision of the subsection (keeping them both under the heading "early career") as an aide to the reader. An alternative would be to move the "early political career" material into a later section that it is perhaps more related to, relating to his political career.  Views of others are welcome, of course.  There is no agenda here other than to improve the readability of the article for the general population of readers.--Epeefleche (talk) 02:26, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As to short paras (and short sentences, for that matter), I've actually done some reading on the subject.  There is excellent non-subjective research out there as to how shorter (within reason) leads to better understanding by readers.  Major media has over time gravitated in this direction, no doubt as a result.  If I have a moment I'll look for and share some of these findings with you.--Epeefleche (talk) 02:58, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I'd be interested in seeing that.  Wasted Time R (talk) 04:00, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on structural changes 

message: I am leaning towards deleting the red from some of the redlinks, as they don't seem likely to lead to articles.  Does anyone have a different view as to one or more of them, wishing the red to stay?  Many thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 03:29, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have filled many a redlink in my time, including congressional committees that no longer exist, political movements, federal laws, etc.  I once got so mad at an editor that took out five redlinks in an article similar to this that I wrote up four of them in the next two weeks.  Don't make me do that again, please! :-) :-)  Seriously, all of these redlinks are worthy of articles, including the one I just added a few minutes ago.  They are DYK prizes just waiting for someone to claim.  Or, if you have a background in academia, think of the list of unsolved problems or questions that professors often give grad students looking for thesis or dissertation ideas.  Redlinks are part of the way WP was built.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:49, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're curious, those four were World Conference on Human Rights, United States House Permanent Select Committee on Aging‎, Hematological Cancer Research Investment and Education Act, and Queens Borough Hall.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:52, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries.  I'll leave them as is (unless there is consensus disagreement w/your suggestion they remain).  Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 04:13, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redlinks 

message: I believe he was arrested a number of times -- primarily if not exclusively in civil disobedience type protests.  The article might benefit from a treatment thereof.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:39, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There are currently several mentions of this.  The lead says "[he] has been arrested several times as part of political demonstrations", and the text says "In December 1984, Rangel was arrested for participating in an anti-apartheid rally in front of the South African Consulate in New York" and "On March 15, 1999, the Congressman was arrested along with two other prominent African-American leaders (civil rights activist Al Sharpton and former Mayor David Dinkins), for protesting the fatal shooting of Amadou Diallo, ..." and "In July 2004, Rangel was the first of three sitting U.S. House members to be arrested on trespassing charges, for protesting human rights abuses in Sudan in front of the Sudanese Embassy in Washington".  I've just looked through several pages of Google News Archives hits, and I don't see any arrests other than these three.  I think all three were civil disobedience events, and I presume the charges were dropped in all of them (this New York Post story confirms that for the 1999 one).  What aspect of added treatment are you looking for?  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:20, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arrests 

message: Recently I put a few things together and realized that Mr. Rangel was my first Congressman, as I was born in his district, although I lived in the district for only a short period of time.  I've never been far.  Anyway, I was just looking for information on his family and didn't see either his parents and siblings (if any) nor his spouse and children (if any).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.77.29.163 (talk) 15:47, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family? 

message: It looks to me like all of the information specific to Rangel's actions that led to him being awarded the Bronze Star come from his autobiography, "And I Haven't Had a Bad Day Since."  Does an autobiography meet WP:RS?  I'm not in any way implying he didn't merit his Bronze Star and Purple Heart but details like he led forty men to safety while seriously wounded sounds like embellishment.  Regardless, I would be interested in seeing some views on using his autobiography for source material such as this.TL36 (talk) 01:42, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: [Sorry for the delay in responding, I missed this on my watchlist when you first posted, because it got written to the GA review instead of here.  I've moved it.]  I completely agree about autobiographies; I've done a bunch of political BLPs here and I always try to use autobiographies as little as possible.   In this case, I've used his autobio to fill in some of the personal details of his time in Korea, while correlating everything he and other sources have said about him to the general history of his unit during the Battle of Kunu-Ri.  The core fact you're concerned about, leading 40 men to safety while wounded, actually comes from this New York Times story, not from the autobio.  And the article (and sources) do not say he was "seriously" wounded, just wounded enough to require hospitalization afterward; clearly he was mobile during the night in question.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:44, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Korean War Record

message: With >134k the article needs a split (WP:SIZESPLIT). --Polmandc (talk) 05:24, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Strongly disagree.  At 59 kB (9900 words) "readable prose size", it's within the WP:LENGTH guideline of 60 kB / 10,000 words for reasonable length, and that's just a guideline, there are many articles longer than that.  For instance, see User:Dr pda/Featured article statistics for a hundred current Featured Articles longer than this.  And this article is not going to get much longer; the subject is clearly near the end of his career, which may come in June if he loses the primary.   Wasted Time R (talk) 12:15, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting 

message: Template:Infobox_officeholder
:Where the use of "same district number" is used for determining "predecessor" and "successor" in any office, but where the area is so altered as to make such a "predecessor" or "successor" of little or no biographical value, the word "redistricted" should be used rather than using names of officeholders whose connection is accidental by virtue of district number, but unrelated to any election contests between officeholders.
I trust this is clear. Collect (talk) 13:50, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: And just so everyone is clear, here is where a change in consensus was established to allow this: Template talk:Infobox officeholder#RfC on successor/predecessor where a district is not reasonably viewed as the same after redistricting. I made the same mistake in changing back the infobox without realising what had been agreed earlier. Redverton (talk) 01:38, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: This does not apply to succession boxes at the bottom, which have a different purpose. They refer directly to articles like New York's 13th congressional district with a listing of all those who held this numbered seat, independent of redistricting. Redistricting is obviously mentioned there. Kraxler (talk) 14:23, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Good luck trying to get through to them. I have already pointed out many problems and inconsistencies with this here: Talk:Michael Grimm (politician)/Archive 1#Infobox discussion. TL565 (talk) 00:17, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I couldn't care less for what is written in the infobox but, as I said above, succession boxes follow a different pattern. Kraxler (talk) 14:50, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Infobox officeholder 

message: According to the Twentieth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the term begins and end at noon on January 3. Period. Do we take the US Constitution for granted or do we start a discussion about it? Kraxler (talk) 20:56, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: And that Amendment says not a single solitary word about people "succeeding" others in office.   Again -- I suggest you ask a teacher how they would grade a term paper which  included "Charles Rangel succeeded Michael Grimm in Congress."  Your actual point here being? Collect (talk) 21:08, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I already told you at Talk:Michael Grimm (politician) that the statement "Charles Rangel succeeded Michael Grimm in Congress is ludicrous, and that the succession box does not make any such statement. How many times do I have to repeat something? It becomes a trifle tedious. Besides, you're in the wrong section again. I fixed the wrong dates in the infobox, just that, dates in the infobox. So, let me jump to something completely unrelated too. Have you ever heard about Idée fixe (psychology)? Interesting article. Wikipedia has millions of them. Succession boxes are meant to direct the readers to somewhat related, but possibly rather unrelated, pages which might also interest the reader. They are not meant to impart any info on the subject. Well, I'm repeating myself... Kraxler (talk) 12:36, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Making personal attacks at me -- the "Idée fixe " comment is unworthy of any admin, much less worthy of someone who hope to become an ArbCom member.    I found a case where Wikipedia strongly implies something that is actually false   and is not found as a claim in any secondary reliable source.    I happen to have the strange opinion that encyclopedia articles which make false claims are wrong.  Cheers.  Collect (talk) 13:11, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they are, actually. The problem is, that the succession box doesn't make any false claims, as my well sourced statement at Talk:Michael Grimm (politician) proves. This is becoming a two-man show. I suggest you read WP:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. After several days without significant input at all these discussions in several places (which you maintain although I suggested to unify the discussion in one place) you should realize that there won't be any consensus for change. And, I can't believe that you accuse me of making personal attacks. Did you only mention another Wikipedia article at the RfC, or did you call your opposers pigs ? Come on, you should calm down a bit. Kraxler (talk) 14:05, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The disruption, alas, appears to be quite on your side.  And threats that you will prevent WP:CONSENSUS from working is actually a violation of the pillars of Wikipedia.    An editor finds a problem and then starts a proper RfC on it for a reasobnable solution.    No one here should remotely be discussing personalities at all.   Collect (talk) 16:11, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terms 

message: The Wikipedia page for the Congressional Progressive Caucus lists Mr. Rangel as a member, but the Caucus Memberships section of this page leaves it out.  I don't want to start an edit war, but if there is no real reason for omitting it, would someone authoritative verify his membership and add it to the Caucus Memberships section?  Thanks.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.106.71 (talk) 21:41, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Now added, using this caucus members list as the source.  Thanks for spotting the omission.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:49, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Congressional Progressive Caucus member 

message: Does this edit  improve this BLP? 
" Member of theU.S. House of Representativesfrom New York's 13th, previously numbered the 18th, and then the 19th, 16th and 15th, congressional district"
From the prior list which actually gave the years for which each district number was applicable? Collect (talk) 16:54, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The years related to the districts are shown in the succession boxes at the bottom. It's not necessary to duplicate everything everywhere. The infobox should show a short overview of the most important things. See WP:Infobox. Kraxler (talk) 17:14, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: What a surprise -- I take it you feel the soup of district numbers with no indications whatsoever  of which numbers were used when is of immense value to readers?   I think we should let others weigh in on how useful this new system is, don't you?  Meanwhile, students who use the wonderful "succession boxes"  you refer to will tell their schoolteachers that Wikipedia says Charles Rangel was succeeded as congressman by Ed Koch,  Mario Biaggi, Jose Serrano, and Jose Serrano, and he replaced  Adam Clayton Powell Jt., Bella Abzug,  Chuck Schumer , S. William Green,  and Michael Grimm, for whose seat a special election is being held shortly, but where Rangel is not on the ballot, but where Rangel will not be succeeded by Grimm's successor?  What will the teacher say - it is in Wikipedia so it must be true!  Collect (talk) 19:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Your top choice for ArbCom said "I won't dispute the factual accuracy of such a statement", about Grimm succeeding Rangel in District 15, you remember? NewYorkBrad actual said exactly the same thing, in May last year. Do you need a link? We had that already many times, and at different venues. Do you intend to shy off any bona fide commenters with these re-iterations? I just added a neutral statement here asking people to comment. You start right away with the battle-axe again. Wikipedia is not a community of 2. The additions to my initial neutral statement, and this whole section should be deleted. The "query" starts with a biased claim and then continues with disparaging remarks, impeding any helpful discussion of the issue. Kraxler (talk) 19:58, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I had hoped for actual views from actual readers  and editors here.  I iterate the Microsoft anecdote with the punchline "It had to be the Microsoft building - they gave me an answer which was factually accurate and totally useless". Collect (talk) 20:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: We're not here to tell anecdotes. Kraxler (talk) 20:12, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: In which case your prior post was nugatory. Collect (talk) 20:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm too lazy to look up "nugatory" in the dictionary, I presume you meant that in your anecdote somebody ate nougat. Kraxler (talk) 20:50, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  query

message: Consider:
Does either work? Collect (talk) 17:19, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: First one way too long.  Second one not bad.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:27, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  shrunken infobox 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified