Talk:Pontic Greeks

message: "Pontic Greeks" is definitely more common in English.  "Pontian" isn't even common in Greek, is it?  I realize that in Modern Greek the word ποντικός is "mouse" from the ancient ποντικός μυς, so the word for "Pontic" was adjusted to Ποντιακός.  But if we tried to render that in English, we would get Pontiac, the name of an Indian chief and a city and make of car both named in his honor.  Since this is the English Wikipedia, it's best to stick with "Pontic," despite how strange that might sound in Greek hears.  --Joe 00:32, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In French, it's also "Pontiques", and in Greek just πόντιοι. In Spanish Griegos pónticos --Pylambert (I wrote most of the French article Pontiques) 00:53, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok, I'll go ahead and merge than. Thanks. —Khoikhoi 02:38, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I think that's a good idea--maybe Sam Topalidis has written a little about it.-Kravk (talk) 19:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Pontic vs Pontian

message: Multiple usage of the term is somewhat addressed in opening graph but following graphs continue to conflate confusingly the Trabzond culture with the more general application or misapplication of "Pontic/Pontoi".
Pontic culture and especially language is/was very specific. When we list towns on Black Sea Thrace now in Bulgaria or the Danube (now in Romania) as Pontic, we need to be careful and need to parse for the reader. A Greek from the western and northern Black Sea would have more in common cultural and in dialect with a Greek of Constantinople/Istanbul, Smyrna/Izmir and indeed Alexandria Egypt and Athens than they would with the Trabzond Greeks. The reader should not think a Greeks from most of the cities listed (and most are outside of the Trabzon Pontic area) would speak "Pontic Greek", engage in Pontic Dance, etc. 
The problem arises from contemporary Greek usage where "Pontoi" can now refer to anyone from the Black Sea area, and in some usages, any of the refugee populations from Turkey (90% of whom were not Pontic in the cultural sense) as well as refugees from Bulgaria, Romania or even European Eastern Thrace.71.252.33.135 12:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: clarity needed

message: This article should be renamed Pontians or Pontian Greeks.  As a Pontian I can definitely guarantee that in English the term we use to define ourselves is "Pontian”.  I have never referred to myself as a Pontic Greek in English and neither have I ever heard another English speaker do so.   As this Wikipedia is meant to report "actual usage" and  for "actual usage" in English, have a look at the name of any Pontian club, society, football team, restaurant etc in Australia, Canada or the USA.  They all use simply "Pontian", with the "Greek" occasionally added for clarity or further identification.  Normally “Greek” is superfluous as it’s implied. Much the same way as you would use Cretan or Cretan Greek.  
In English the word “Pontic” tends to be used by academics to relate to the whole historical Black Sea littoral.  When Greeks use the word, “Ποντιος/Pontios” in Greek and “Pontian” in English, they are specifically referring to those Greeks whose ancestors specifically originated from “Pontus/Pontos” (i.e. the Black Sea coast of north east Anatolia).  They are not referring to Greeks from other parts of the Black Sea coasts (such as Thrace) unless they did actually originally hail from Pontus, such as the Greeks of Southern Russia. 
Can someone please change the Tile.  I have no idea how.--Nostham 14:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Pontian not Pontic

message: I'm not quite sure if this would be outside the scope of this article, but it might be interesting to add a short section about the common name endings in pontic names, since they are quite characteristic and a good indication of pontic decendance. Maybe one of the more versed contributers here might find this a worthwhile task?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.174.90.208 (talk) 12:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's a good idea--maybe Sam Topalidis has written a little about it.-Kravk (talk) 19:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Name endings (-idis, -idou)

message: Is there a distinct Pontian language or dialect? RJFJR 15:54, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A Pontic-Greek dialect - Sthenel 17:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language 

message: The links need to be cleaned up, I am not sure fortunecity links are allowed, anyway they are too many. Instead of 'Grk.' one should use the template , or just write the Greek names and write in parantheses the transliterations and translations. I started, but there are way too many.
Also the book of Thea Leo 1) is primary source, 2) does not include the word 'Hofmann' (used amazon search inside). Also, we should not link to Amazon if possible. 
Besides these, the current names should appear in that settlements section (possibly with Greek names in the parantheses) DenizTC 11:39, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The towns should be mentioned with their original names that Pontians gave to them (it's a history related article not geography). The wikilinks will make clear what their current names are. - Sthenel 11:58, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think they are all historical names, they are just the names (Pontic) Greeks use for them today. Anyway, I think it's fine this way, since it is about the settlements now. DenizTC 12:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Just an example: When we talk about the Byzantine Empire and the Byzantine Greeks in general we refer to Constantinople, not Istanbul. The same with the Pontians - Sthenel 14:43, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Can you please explain more, what are those settlements exactly? I don't think they are the ones established by Pontic Greeks. I thought they were settlements a good number of Pontic Greeks inhabit now. But maybe they are the districts of ancient Pontus. And, what about Tokat, Hatzi-Koi, Akdag-Maten? DenizTC 15:52, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  cleanup 

message: as people still ask "why?" Please check talk page first, or read the edit summaries
It is a primary source, I don't have any problems with anybody/anything. I hope I will stay like that, but I am not sure about it at the moment. If there are rules we must abide by the rules, until the rules change, which is unlikely in this case; so maybe we should change. Primary sources must be accompanied by non-primary sources (which makes them not so necessary), that is the rule. Now once again:
:#The book is not primary source, because ...
:#It is primary source but we can include the quote because ...
:#The book is primary source, we cannot use it, but we will use it, even 'blockquote' the quote, because ...
:#4th option(?)
DenizTC 22:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Primary sources are discouraged on Wikipedia. Please read further on WP:PSTS. DenizTC 20:15, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No they are not at all.  what is discoureged is interpretation of the primary without a secondary. Did you even read the rules on sources you have posted?72.75.6.102 04:46, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've read it several times, but I failed to see the keyword 'interpretation', I guess (though we also have the following there: 'Wikipedia articles should rely on reliable, published secondary sources'). Anyway, I am still against abusive blockquoting, and the illustration (picture), also the name of the settlements, and reflecting the population exchange one sided. Also there is a distinction in Turkish between 'Rum' (Greek Orthodox Anatolians) and 'Yunan' (from Ionanian, now used only for Greeks of Greece, back than it might have included 'Rum's on the Aegean cost) (I'm  talking about Ascherton quote). When talking about population exchange, we might need to talk about 19th century 'Muhacir's from Balkans as well. DenizTC 17:43, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  third subsection about the same thing 

message: Christodoulos wasnt pontic but threkian from Adrianoupoli (Edirne) which is in eastern thrace...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.78.231.4 (talk) 11:45, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christodoulos 

message: It was invented in 1922. These people are hellenophone Laz People. They are not Greek in any other (cultural,genetic) way...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.107.168.50 (talk) 17:15, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: They are indeed Greek and they have a history of over 2500 years in the region. They speak a unique variety of Greek with many features only present in this variety and traceable to Ancient Greek like the infinitive, many words, pronunciation of certain letter (e.g e for eta instead of i), evidence to the fact that they lived there for thousands of years and that they didn't just adapt the language. They have Greek customs. They always have been called Greek and there is a historical mention for them since the first colonisation of the area. Genetically they are some of Greek people that are closest to the Ancient Greeks with of course some other admixtures being present.  The Laz on the other hand were Georgian Muslims that moved later to the area and became a distinct group called Laz. 62.228.197.211 (talk) 11:16, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is no such thing as a "Greek Pontian" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "Those from Georgia, northeastern Anatolia, and the former Russian Caucasus are in contemporary Greek academic circles often referred to as "Eastern Pontic [Greeks]" or as Caucasian Greeks, but also include the Turkic-speaking Urums."  The subject of the first verb "are ... referred to" is "Those from Georgia ...etc".  Is this also the subject of the verb "include"?  "Those from Georgia ... also include the Urums"?  Doesn't make sense to me. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 00:07, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  sentence needs correction 

message: Pontic greeks have nothing to do with georgians.they have nothing in common not even last names also in cyprus and greece georgians get mistaken as pontic greeks which again they are not. 31.153.42.48 (talk) 01:01, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true, Pontic Greeks aren't Georgian. However, there is a significant diaspora in Georgia, hence the discussion of Pontians in Georgia and the Georgian name for Pontic Greeks. Kravk (talk) 01:06, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pontic greeks are not georgian 

message: Eastern Anatolia is a term created in Ottoman Turkey and later used extensively from the Republic of Turkey. Geographically the area encompasses mostly the Armenian Highlands/Western Armenia. The term should not be used because historically there are many terms that were used for the area, because the term tries to link "Eastern Anatolia" to Anatolia in order to link Turks in Anatolia to "Eastern Anatolia" where Turks were a minority before the Armenian Genocide and still are in many parts, the term has political implications and is propagandistic, it tries to hide the presence of Armenians in the area, the Armenian Genocide, the term Western Armenia and everything related to people other than the Turks. 62.228.197.211 (talk) 11:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eastern Anatolia is not an accepted term