Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Ancient Egyptian)

message: Just a little question about this discussion page: is it alright if we put just two sections; a support and an oppose section, and people just add onto those? Abluescarab (talk) 10:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have split the arguments, but obviously the titles might be POV! Markh (talk) 12:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I think this goes against the idea of going towards consensus, besides - this is no longer whether to rename KV62 about which there is a support or object, but about the question "What Policies should exist about Tomb Naming?". Therefore the move to this page.--Keerllston 18:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. Andrewa (talk) 19:19, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Page structure

message: As an Aside, I did briefly experiment with the aforementioned solution for Tut's tomb here:  under my 24.87.136.31 Anonymous IP edit (which I quickly reverted) in the Burial row of his Infobox and there was no change in the size of the article. One should keep in mind that Tutankhamun actually has one of the longer New Kingdom pharaoh's names at 11 letters.  What do you think? Leoboudv (talk) 03:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see any reason not to use a strict KV system in infoboxes and the pharaoh namebox. It is more compact, and here there is no need to say "Tomb of N" because the infobox already says "Burial: ...". The same is true of lists as I mentioned at the start of this section. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 18:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My suggestion would be that, regardless of the name of the burial article, the infobox should display the systematic tomb name. If this isn't the article name, then the link can either be to the article name directly, or can simply go there via the redirect that should exist from the systematic name... I favour the latter, but either is perfectly acceptable IMO. Andrewa (talk) 19:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: See User talk:Andrewa/systematic names. Andrewa (talk) 17:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wider issue of systematic names

message: See Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Ancient Egyptian). Andrewa (talk) 14:11, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The only difference between this page and the general naming convention is that this page says never to use the Hellenized form of the name of Pharaohs, even if it is the most common form. This is a handful of names; Amenophis is no longer normal English usage. But since we do actually use Hellenizations for some Pharaohs, it could use rephrasing; Menes, Ramesses II and Apries are Hellenizations. Making the exception narrow (unless the Hellenization is predominant in English ?) may avoid argument. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm... Yes, agree with all those observations. But they raise the possibilities that firstly, this convention may not be needed at all (let's avoid instruction creep if we can), and secondly, that it needs some work before it can be a useful naming convention despite the current banner proclaiming it to be one. Andrewa (talk) 06:14, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tweaked as I suggested. It may be worth explicitly including Cheops, whether we want it to be used or avoided; we should discuss here which. Most other names before the arrival of the Greeks should be given in Egyptian form because the Greek name is no longer fashionable; most of the exceptions are Hellenized now. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:25, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Resuming...

message: Although I agree with the convention now that I've edited it, I have downgraded to . Let's see some evidence of consensus that this is what we want to say; and let's see some support for having this be a separate page. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:06, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is now some discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Ancient Egyptian). Hopefully it will produce a consensus as to either adoption or rejection of this guideline in some form. Andrewa (talk) 12:12, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed

message: === Noted problem ===
There are pretty wild inconsistencies between all the paragraphs that introduce articles about figures from Ancient Egypt history. Specifically, there are several pieces of information relevant to some, most, or all of these people: 
# Name used in article
# Other spellings using the Latin alphabet
# Pronunciation in Egyptian
# Meaning in Egyptian
# Pronunciation in English (rarely)
=== A few examples ===
From the Meritaten article: "Meritaten, also spelled Merytaten or Meryetaten (Ancient Egyptian: mrii.t-itn)[1] (14th century BC), was an ancient Egyptian royal woman of the Eighteenth Dynasty of Egypt. Her name means . . ."
* order: her name, a comma, Arabic letter spelling, ancient Egyptian pronunciation, and in the next sentence the Egyptian meaning.
The Meketaten article: "Meketaten ("Behold the Aten" or "Protected by Aten") was the second daughter of six born to the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten and his Great Royal Wife Nefertiti."
* order: article name and meaning without other information.
The Ankhesenamun article: "Ankhesenamun (ˁnḫ-s-n-imn, "Her Life Is of Amun"; c. 1348 – after 1322 BC) was a queen who lived during the 18th Dynasty of Egypt as the pharaoh Akhenaten's daughter and subsequently became the Great Royal Wife of pharaoh Tutankhamun. Born Ankhesenpaaten (ˁnḫ.s-n-pꜣ-itn, "she lives for the Aten"),[1] she was the 3rd of 6 known daughters of the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten and his Great Royal Wife Nefertiti. "
* article name, Egyptian pronounciation, meaning. No other spellings listen (To the best of my knowledge, there isn't another known spelling).
The Neferneferure article: "Neferneferure (Ancient Egyptian: nfr-nfr.w-rꜥ "beautiful are the beauties of Re")[1] (14th century BCE) was an ancient Egyptian princess of the 18th Dynasty. She was the fifth of six known daughters of Pharaoh Akhenaten and his Great Royal Wife Nefertiti."
* name, Ancient Egyptian pronunciation, meaning.
The Akhenaten article: "Akhenaten (pronounced /ˌækəˈnɑːtən/),[8] also spelled Echnaton,[9] Akhenaton,[3] Ikhnaton,[2] and Khuenaten[10][11] (Ancient Egyptian: ꜣḫ-n-jtn, meaning "Effective for the Aten"), was an ancient Egyptian pharaoh reigning c. 1353–1336[3] or 1351–1334 BC,[4] the tenth ruler of the Eighteenth Dynasty. Before the fifth year of his reign, he was known as Amenhotep IV (Ancient Egyptian: jmn-ḥtp, meaning "Amun is satisfied", Hellenized as Amenophis IV)."
* name, pronunciation in modern English, other spellings, Ancient Egyptian pronunciation, meaning.
=== Proposal ===
So, as we can see  there's lots of things going on in the introductory paragraphs for these articles. Consistency would be beneficial for readers and cohesively across the wiki. I would like to propose that article introductions be reformatted to match in the following way:
(Romanized name used consistently in the article) ((English pronunciation; Ancient Egyptian: ———, meaning "()"; alternatively romanized as (insert variants); years / dynasty active)) was a ____________________.
The meaning of the name would go in a later sentence as either part of the introduction or in the about/life sections.
Some examples from the above articles as to how this would appear:
* Akhenaten ((/ˌækəˈnɑːtən/; Ancient Egyptian: ꜣḫ-n-jtn, meaning "Effective for the Aten"; alternatively romanized as Echnaton, Akhenaton, Ikhnaton, and Khuenaten; 18th Dynasty Egypt) or Amunhotep IV (/ˌæmɛnˈhoʊtɛp/; Ancient Egyptian: jmn-ḥtp; meaning "Amun is satisfied"; alternatively romanized as Amenophis) was an ancient Egyptian pharaoh reigning c. 1353–1336[3] or 1351–1334 BC, the tenth ruler of the Eighteenth Dynasty.
* Meketaten (meaning "Behold/Protected by the Aten "; 18th Dynasty)) was the second-born daughter of the Pharaoh Akhenaten and his Great Royal Wife Nefertiti.
* Ankhesenamun (Ancient Egyptian:ˁnḫ-s-n-imn, meaning "Her Life Is of Amun"; c. 1348 - after 1322)) or Ankhesenpaaten (Ancient Egyptian: ˁnḫ.s-n-pꜣ-itn; meaning "she lives for the Aten") was a queen during the .
* Neferneferure (Ancient Egyptian: nfr-nfr.w-rꜥ, meaning "Beautiful are the Beauties of Re"; 18th Dynasty)) was an ancient Egyptian princess of the 18th Dynasty.
I believe this proposal would be in line with all relevant Wikipedia rules on naming conventions.
ForWhomTheSunShines (talk) 16:20, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Convention for Introduction Paragraphs 

message: So, as we can see  there's lots of things going on in the introductory paragraphs for these articles. Consistency would be beneficial for readers and cohesively across the wiki. I would like to propose that article introductions be reformatted to match in the following way:
(Romanized name used consistently in the article) ((English pronunciation; Ancient Egyptian: ———, meaning "()"; alternatively romanized as (insert variants); years / dynasty active)) was a ____________________.
The meaning of the name would go in a later sentence as either part of the introduction or in the about/life sections.
Some examples from the above articles as to how this would appear:
* Akhenaten ((/ˌækəˈnɑːtən/; Ancient Egyptian: ꜣḫ-n-jtn, meaning "Effective for the Aten"; alternatively romanized as Echnaton, Akhenaton, Ikhnaton, and Khuenaten; 18th Dynasty Egypt) or Amunhotep IV (/ˌæmɛnˈhoʊtɛp/; Ancient Egyptian: jmn-ḥtp; meaning "Amun is satisfied"; alternatively romanized as Amenophis) was an ancient Egyptian pharaoh reigning c. 1353–1336[3] or 1351–1334 BC, the tenth ruler of the Eighteenth Dynasty.
* Meketaten (meaning "Behold/Protected by the Aten "; 18th Dynasty)) was the second-born daughter of the Pharaoh Akhenaten and his Great Royal Wife Nefertiti.
* Ankhesenamun (Ancient Egyptian:ˁnḫ-s-n-imn, meaning "Her Life Is of Amun"; c. 1348 - after 1322)) or Ankhesenpaaten (Ancient Egyptian: ˁnḫ.s-n-pꜣ-itn; meaning "she lives for the Aten") was a queen during the .
* Neferneferure (Ancient Egyptian: nfr-nfr.w-rꜥ, meaning "Beautiful are the Beauties of Re"; 18th Dynasty)) was an ancient Egyptian princess of the 18th Dynasty.
I believe this proposal would be in line with all relevant Wikipedia rules on naming conventions.
ForWhomTheSunShines (talk) 16:20, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal 

message: This is a courtesy notice that I've proposed renaming KV62 to "Tomb of Tutankhamun". You can participate in the discussion at Talk:KV62#Requested move 22 April 2021. Cheers. Rublov (talk) 01:10, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaming of KV62