Talk:Craig Murray/Archive 1

message: There is a picture of Craig Murray on his CV page. Are the pictures on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office website suitably licensed for inclusion on Wikipedia? If not, where else might we find a picture of him? Tim Ivorson 14:57, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: This claims he was removed from his post in October 2004, but also discusses effects in July 2004 following a discplinary action that isn't otherwise described.  Can anyone provide information on this? --Delirium 06:55, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
:I think 18 charges were made against him by the FCO and he was told that they were secret, so he couldn't form a defence. Then, all but two minor charges (being drunk at work and misuse of an FCO vehicle) were dropped. It should be mentioned in the external links and I might get round to adding something. Tim Ivorson 10:11, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  earlier disciplinary action? 

message: Did he lose his deposit? It seems to me that neither the BBC nor the pro-Murray sites say. I think that a candidate needs 5% of votes cast to keep his deposit. Is that right? The BBC says that he got 5.0%, but that appears to be rounded up. Tim Ivorson 11:21, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Election

message: There is a lot of work to be done. I have started changing the external links into references, but it appears that omission of facts even in the links provided is commonplace in this page. This has a lot of the same problems, and the pov-ness that Andijan massacre does... Ya ya ya ya ya ya 17:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Could you please explain what is totally disputed about this page?82.41.97.213 21:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are numerous unsourced claims. Source them and I'll remove the tag. Otherwise it stays. For an example on how to source content, look at the way I've done it so far in this article. Ya ya ya ya ya ya 21:30, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Then why not use a more appropriate tag than "totally disputed"? For example citecheck or just disputed. You are not totally disputing the article, you are just asking for more citations.82.41.97.213 23:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I dispute the article's accuracy and neutrality. If you can source the pov to specific sources then i'll remove the tags. Ya ya ya ya ya ya 00:04, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is an article about a person who holds a well documented POV. The article gives his views and also cites negative criticism of Murray. Could you give examples of exactly why you feel the article itself (rather than the subject's opinions) is POV. 82.41.97.213 13:19, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What you're saying simply is not true. It's not well-documented. There are numerous unsourced statements in the article. The burden to point out the unsourced pov is not mine. I've already pointed out what's unsourced. Ya ya ya ya ya ya 17:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup... et cetera

message: The article states that Murray said he had an all male staff - from my recollection of his book (Murder in Samarkand) this is not the case - any ideas? Anthony.moore 13:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to remove it if it's unsourced. Ya ya ya ya ya ya 17:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is backed up by reference 2  "The envoy who said too much" The Guardian Newspaper. 82.41.97.213 18:01, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "all male staff" 

message: What can possibly be POV about that statement? And it is stated explicitly on the link I quoted  at the top left.
82.41.97.213 21:33, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not stated in the article and it's irrelevant. He's a politician. That's it. Provide sources that say otherwise and it can stay. Ya ya ya ya ya ya 21:37, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is stated on the link right under "Craig Murray". He has written a book "Murder in Samarkand" and he frequently speaks on television and radio. To me that makes him a writer and broadcaster82.41.97.213 21:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Re-add writer with a source talking about Murder in Samarkand. Broadcaster is not applicable unless he has a radio show. Name the show, cite the source. Ya ya ya ya ya ya 21:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Writer and broadcaster

message: As the editor Ya ya etc has ben blocked for being a  sockpuppet, and upon review of the arguments presented above, I have removed the NPOV tag.  Craig Murray has a very definite POV: the article documents the man and his life, without endorsing the views.  If certain sections of it need citation, then other editors are welcome to tag them discretely.
I have also removed the details about Murray's children.  Although not explicitly stated in Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons, I think it is a reasonable interpretation of the "Presumption in favor of privacy" listed in that article.  Their father is notable; they are not; and he is not notable for being a father (unlike, say, some guy who keeps siring twins).  BrainyBabe 15:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed NPOV tag

message: While I fully believe those claiming The Courier count is wrong, it is true that Wikipedia does not allow "Original Research" - ie you must be able to provide a reference other than "I know that" -especially when what you know does not match a "reputable" press report. However the reference can be to a written document and the official University documents would do. If anyone can cite the exact document and author (returning officers names) or other authoritative document then please add it to remove the confusion. Otherwise Wiki policy is clear - see Wikipedia:No original research.  Citizensmith 00:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good enough for me anyway... If you read the article history you'll see a few months ago a certain user started deleting almost everything about Craig Murray that wasn't backed up with a reference. I just wanted to avoid that happening again - not just be annoying :-) - Citizensmith 11:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rectorial Election