Talk:Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

message: Surely the main feature of the VGSOH lifespan was the huge potential versus the epic failure of delivery. The crafting and diplomacy systems really were excellent (there's still nothing better anywhere 5 years later) as were several of the housing and transport concepts. In many ways it was the most optimistic MMO for a long time, yet no mention is made of any of this? It should be the textbook example of how mismanagement can destroy an excellent product.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.32.219.185 (talk) 20:07, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing the key element? 

message: I can understand French speaking servers, or language specific, but what the hell is "Oceanic"?  Is that Australia, Hawaii, Philipines, anything on the coast of an ocean?  Only people who live on boats? Nschubach 05:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Un-Official Server" listings 

message: I'd remove the references to the pre-orders as it is going live in three days. Tdewey
*Revised in preparatin for release.Therian 03:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening 

message: When Sigil releases information on each class Vanguard: Saga of Heroes character classes article should be started. The Races and class restrictions section should also be moved there. 550talk 16:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the information for race/class combinations currently on this page should probably be removed because it's highly subject to change (not to mention uncited), and the way sub-races are grouped is very misleading. But yes, I agree that a character classes page should be made when more information is available. --Shroom Mage 22:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's why I added the note on the table. The table does not have enough room to include the sub races class restrictions. Maybe another table would be needed to go over the sub races. However, it is straight from developer sources and if changes can be easily edited.  550talk 16:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: I added in the sub races into a table of its own. Now all Races are included.550talk 01:43, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Vanguard: Saga of Heroes character classes]] 

message: In light of the recent revelations in Jeff Butler's MMORPG.com interview.
: Got a link?  Powers T 21:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  http://vanguardradio.com/vanguard-saga-of-heroes-news/vanguard-news/behind-the-scenes-video-of-diplomacy.html GBobly 02:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diplomacy section needs a complete rewrite. 

message: These sites are affilliated fan sites. Vanguard Spheres, VanguardTact (diplomacy) and Vanguard Crafters (crafting). It is interesting that the affiliated fan sites be listed with link, because now the VSoH dicussion will happen at the forums at the affiliated fan sites. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.181.21.55 (talk) 23:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I added some links to affiliated fan sites 

message: "The third "sphere" of Vanguard, diplomacy, takes the concept of factions and player interaction to a whole new level." Serialized 08:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diplomacy section reads like an advertisement. 

message: This section is a little oddly worded:
It doesn't seem likely that sigil are maintaining an independent server farm in case something happens to the soe servers. Why would they, it's not like soe have a bad reputation for server uptime.
Secondly, is it an acurate portrayal of the deal to describe sigil as "hiring" soe?
:From my understanding of the agreement, SOE is only handling the pblication and hosting of the game.  I was not aware of an backup contingency.  I'll have to do some more research on the exact involvement here.  (It was rumored that SOE had "loaned" programmers to Sigil for the last stretch of development as well.  I don't know the truth in this either.) Nschubach 23:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) Involvement 

message: Why was the spelling tag added to this page? It looks good to me. There were recently a couple of spelling changes made, but many of those were american english to british english, and one was from french to english. Cyphern 17:02, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because there's a lot of hate surrounding this game.  I suspect it's just that. Nschubach 13:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why the Spelling tag? 

message: is the game pay to play or what? How does it make the company money?
:Yes, it's part of the Sony Station, and a part of Station Pass as well.  $14.99/month on a month to month basis or $24.99 on Station Pass which gives you access all the games on the Station Pass subscription service. Nschubach 14:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  pay to play? 

message: I'm sending the "early release" issue to mediation.  The last thing Wikipedia needs is people like Nschubach deleting content at will because they don't like it.  In fact, if you read Wikipedia's own information about how to handle disputes it says, in bold letters, not to simply revert.  Despite your erroneous claim to the contrary, nothing in my addition is opinion at all.  The game was released early.  That's a fact.  People have complained that it is still in beta.  That's a fact and it wouldn't take you long to verify it if you were more interested in accuracy and objectivity than your own opinion.  There is no marking on the retail packaging to indicate the game was released early.  That's a fact as well.  Brad McQuaid, the developer, has said it was released early and that it needs patches and bug fixes on par with Beta 5.  Nschubach, you are a great detriment to a site like this because you care more about your personal opinion than objectivity, and if something doesn't align with your personal opinion you want to make certain that no one reads it.  People like you are the reason Wikipedia has taken a lot of flak over the years.
::I've created a new section called Community Concerns on the page that your content concerns should go in. Nschubach 14:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute over "Retail Beta" claim 

message: Some of the edits I put in may be inaccurate (especially the ones under Monk and Disciple) but the format of how it was written was bugging me.  I know what they mean, but explaining 'hate buff', 'DPS buff', aggro, and other terminology or even having it in there didn't seem right.  Only reason why I left 'mob' in was because it was already linked.  Any comments?  Ravashack 23:35, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  My Edits 

message: The Characters section (like the rest of the article) needs a lot of work. It has too much information in most areas, and it is absolutely filled with inaccuracies and misleading facts. The caption on the screenshot is simply wrong. The team listings under Racial Emnity applies only on a single server. (A halfling, for example, can come and go as he pleases in Halgarad on any other server.) The Adventuring Classes section opens with: "There are currently 17 classes total, 2 of which did not make it to the release." There are not currently 17 classes total. There are currently 15. The class descriptions are not necessary, especially for classes that do not exist in the game. Finally, the Leveling Up section needs to either be expanded (and called "Character Advancement" or something similar) or deleted altogether. --Shroom Mage 03:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characters Section 

message: In the Gameplay section, Adventuring subsection (1.1), the last paragraph says, regarding attribute points, "These points are awarded every 20% experience gained after level 10." It's not clear what is meant by that. Is it intended to mean, each time the player has earned 20% of the experience needed to advance to the next level? Which is to say, when you've gained 20% of the experience to go from 10 to 11, then when you've gained 40% of the experience to get from 10 to 11, etc.? Or is it supposed to mean each time your experience has increased by 20% from its previous total? Which would mean, if you reached level 10 with (for example) 100,000 XP, you would get attribute points at 120,000, then 144,000, then 172,800, etc. (exponentially growing at a factor of 1.2 per increment). Or it could mean something entirely different. The way it is currently phrased in the article, it doesn't have any meaning. 70.98.56.84 21:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed wording Nschubach 03:51, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification of Numbers 

message: "Antagonistic community unwelcoming to new players" Is this PoV to you? Nschubach 20:54, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism Section 

message: I have attempted to make this section a bit tighter:
* Tried to clean up the language a little, aiming for brevity and clarity.
* Removed detail that perhaps would be more appropriate in a specific resource like Silky Venom. For example, the subclassing detail, and the subsequent paragraph on armor, weapons, and feats.
* Changed class group headings to those used in the game currently: protective fighter, offensive fighter, healer, caster.
* Changed capitalisation throughout the section to lower-case for class names.
I see from the talk page that finding an NPOV Vanguard article has been controversial.  That doesn't
surprise me, it's a game that some people have been angry about due to the circumstances surrounding
its release.  I have tried not to tread on too many toes!  I have attempted throughout to remain in NPOV, though I wonder if the paragraph on the ability system might not make the grade there.  I'll try to find appropriate references for things like: "a detailed combat system with some unique aspects."
I have rewritten the PvP paragraph to try to provide a more balanced viewpoint as the assertions in the original seemed questionable to me (I play exclusively on the PvP server, so it's something of a personal interest).  The original, for comparison, was:Another shortcoming of the Vanguard class concept is the lack in respect to PvP. The class design has not been initially optimized for it, and adding a good balance afterwards seems to be now almost impossible. However, the situation seems to be not much worse than in other games – in practice, players simply avoid the classes which are bad in PvP and choose those which are strong.''
While the above has an element of truth in it, I disagree with the premise that balance is almost
impossible.  There's no question that Vanguard PvP needs a hell of a lot more work, of course! - Basie 01:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adventuring section cleanup 

message: Think it is worth noting that SOE has reactivated all Vanguard accounts, 60 days or older to play the game and experience the fixes and updated contents. --68.209.227.3 (talk) 22:07, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  All Vanguard Accounts activated 

message: I made a bunch of edits, mostly minor (in one edit session :o); I want to alert the people watchlistng this currently (:D) that I changed Critism to Reception, which is more atypical of articles like these.
7h3 0N3 7h3 \/4Nl)4L5 Pl-l34R ( t / c ) 06:24, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crit. ==> Recep. Notif. 

message: I have tagged :File:Trengalkeep.JPG, which is in use in this article for deletion because it does not have a copyright tag. If a copyright tag is not added within seven days the image will be deleted. --Chris 00:43, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:File:Trengalkeep.JPG]] may be deleted 

message: I think the article should emphasise the MS/SOE transition as being key. Microsoft 'parted' ways with Sigil and then not many months later, the Beta testers (who were generally happy) were told, "I am sorry guys but we have been told that we need to release the game now". The beta testers hoped it would be in a few months at least, but in fact, it was in the next month. The game was extremely hurried out the door just one month later (January) to everyone's horror. This was clearly because SOE didn't have the will/money to support the development of the game for longer (which it desperately needed).
I also think it should be updated with the latest changes such as the increase to the level cap and the new raid content and stuff.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.93.44 (talk • contribs) 
::Find some reliable sources and you can add the information to the article.  Powers T 11:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  other stuff 

message: The game is now officially offline. If I get a chance, I'll properly update the article, or someone else can do it.
David Bañuelos (talk) 02:25, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Game Offline 

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thread_title:  External links modified