Talk:Power inverter

message: Archive 1 contains the contents of the talk page of a stub article that has been merged into this article. Pogorrhœa (talk) 00:54, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Archives

message: This page would really benefit from some diagrams. Alaric 14:55 May 8, 2003 (UTC)
: I'd like to see a better diagram than the tube oscillator - which isn't even correct, since the plate voltage supply is backward! --Wtshymanski 18:43, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Diagrams

message: I think this should say that a transformer is ran at a set frequency, but also, a 50 Hz transformer will operate on 60 Hz. Any transformer will operate on higher frequencies with losses no higher than the design frequency, but not vice-versa, until the frequency gets high enough that thinner laminations, or a different core material is required. You can reference the Wikibook article on transformer design here.
--Craxd (talk) 21:23, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The general case 

message: I think this is one of the better articles explaining electronics on Wikipedia. --Grouse 12:14, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You really need to understand switched mode power supplies to understand this. Perhaps the link should be more closely coupled to the psu references, rather than just mentioned at the end of the paragraph. StealthFox 18:48, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good short article 

message: Do digital power inverters exist? Do there exit any power inverters, analog or digital, that use pulse density modulation (PDM)?Myrtone (the strict Australian wikipedian)(talk)|contributions|Testpage
:There are many manufacturers of Variable Frequency Drive inverters. They have generally adopted the latest electronic components and design techniques as soon as they have been able to do so. Today, most of these products use embedded microprocessors to control IGBT transistors. Most products use some form of PWM strategy to provide a simulated sine wave output with controlled voltage and frequency.
:I am not familiar with PDM, but it appears to me that the zeros and ones all have the same fixed width and the modulation consists of controlling the number and position of ones vs. zeros. What happens if there are two ones in succession? Does that become a pulse that is twice as wide? I think that PWM power inverters operate like PDM with a lot of instances of two or more ones in succession joined to form wider pulses. Because of the switching losses in the power switching devices, the switching frequency is usually limited to 3 to 9 kHz but the widths and positions of the pulses are adjusted in very small increments. Manufacturers usually publish a product's switching frequency but don't often provide details about the specific scheme that they use for setting the widths and positions of the modulation pulses.
:I hope that helps to answer your question. -- C J Cowie 15:36, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PDM/digital power inverters 

message: "Modified-sine inverters may cause some loads, such as motors, to operate less efficiently."
The above sentence is in the article. I can't understand if it means that modified-sine inverters are worse (cause some loads to be less efficient) than a no inverter or than a simple inverter. In other words, the waveform generated by a modified-sine inverter is being compared to what? To a true , perfect sinewave or to the waveform of a simple inverter (one with only two possible voltages)? Ambiguous. 
Since I don't know the answer, I can't correct by myself.
:Just saw your unsigned comment. (I have no idea when you wrote it.)  Anyway, reading the above quote ("Modified-sine inverters may cause some loads, such as motors, to operate less efficiently."), I would answer your question thusly:
 
:A modifed sine wave inverter may cause certain types of loads, such as motors, to operate less efficiently than when powered by [alternating current in the form of] a pure sine wave, whether that sine wave be from a "pure sine wave" inverter or regular AC power from the wall outlet. In other words, Pure Sine Wave = best; Modifed Sine Wave = less so.  (Square Wave = worst of all.)  How much of a difference it actually makes in ordinary practice, I don't know.  I regularly use a Modifed Sine Wave inverter to power my microwave oven, and although it causes the oven to "buzz" a little, and seems to heat the food somewhat more slowly (than when powered from the regular wall outlet), it seems to work okay.  Hope that helps. Captain Quirk (talk) 18:56, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ambiguity 

message: I don't think this page should get primary-topic disambiguation.  The word 'inverter' is used very often to refer to NOT gates. --Smack (talk) 02:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguation 

message: "An inverger is an inverter and a charger in a single unit."
What is in inverGer?  I assume that is a typo, but if it were corrected then the sentence read "An inverter is an inverter...". Anyone know what point was trying to be made here? — Zero10one 10:22, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm this is indeed a strange explanation... What about something like "Simple inverters generate square waveforms which are not suited to some application (especially transformers and motors), because of their high harmonic content. In this case, PWM inverters can be preferable" ? CyrilB 16:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Certainly better.  I'm just trying to figure out what the original author was trying to say.  PWM inverters generate a more smooth sinusoidal waveform (if built well), while simple switching ones generate a filtered square wave, but what does this have to do with sine wave cancellation or the Fourier series? — Omegatron 18:20, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The only thing that the Fourier series has to do with this is that the concept of harmonic distortion, based of Fourier analysis, is used to quantify the quality of inverter output waveforms. "Harmonic cancellation" may be a useful way of describing the effect of PWM techniques in improving the waveform, but it doesn't make much sense as presented. -- C J Cowie 20:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What?? 

message: The use of the term pulse may need some clarification in thie paragraph:
::The quality of an inverter is described by its pulse-rating: a 3-pulse is a very simple arrangement, utilising only 3 transistors, whereas a more complex 12-pulse system will give an almost exact sine wave. In remote areas where a utility generated power is subject to significant external, distorting influences such as inductive loads or semiconductor-rectifier loads, a 12-pulse inverter may even offer a better, "cleaner" output than the utility-supplied power grid, and are thus often used in these areas. Inverters with greater pulse ratings do exist.
I believe that the term pulse here refers to the number of steps in the inverter waveform. The six-step waveform is described in the article. A square wave would be a two-step waveform. There are also multiples of the six-step waveform such as 12-step, 18-step and 24-step.
The term pulse is often used to describe AC to DC converters. I can't find any references that use the term pulse as it has been used here.
If no one objects, I think I will change this paragraph to describe 12-step, 18-step and 24-step inverters and eliminate 3-pulse etc.C J Cowie 21:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article Pacific Intertie describes 6-pulse converters.  I've long intended to look up what that means and verify correct usage.  Are you proposing to eliminate mention of 6 pulse?  — EncMstr 00:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The 6-pulse and 12-pulse converters described in the Pacific Intertie article are phase-controlled AC to DC converters and also the same circuits operated as line commutated AC to DC inverters. This article does not cover line commutated inverters. There are also load commutated inverters that are not covered here. These are all controlled rectifier circuits. I think that it might be best to cover the various types of controlled rectifier circuits all in another article and eliminate the terms 6-pulse and 12-pulse from this article.--C J Cowie 00:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Quality of an inverter

message: The three phase inverter section is dominated by line commutated inverter information.  PWM three phase inverters need to be broken out into a separate section.
Also, voltage source and current source inverters need some coverage.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wefoij (talk • contribs) 23:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Three Phase Inverters

message: We have been researching solar inverter companies for over three years, and have built up a list of 170 solar inverter manufacturers here: ENF PV Inverter Industry Directory
It is not only a list of all the inverter manufacturers around the world - we have also researched the power range they are producing, and whether they are on-grid or off-grid inverters.  
I notice a link on the page already to an information page on solar inverters, and I think that the page I am suggesting is just as relevant and I would highly appreciate an appropriate link being added.
Kit Temple (talk) 02:57, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like a well done and highly useful link.  I think it makes a fine addition to the article.  —EncMstr (talk) 05:46, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for ENF Link 

message: There is a little confusion in this section where it states, "In vehicles with regenerative braking, the inverter also takes power from the motor (now acting as a generator) and stores it in the batteries.".
This should probably state two different possibilities.  One is that the drive motors are DC and another where they are AC.
If they are AC, then they would need a rectifier when they became alternators and began generating AC current.  If they are DC, then they would need neither an inverter or a rectifier (but perhaps a transformer) when they became generators and began generating DC current for the batteries. - KitchM (talk) 19:06, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  re. Electric Vehicle Drives 

message: It would be interesting to find a reference that compares the much-maligned sqaure-wave inverter with the so-called "pure sine wave" types for computer UPS purposes.  Since the first thing that the AC power hits in the power supply is a rectifier, say good-by to the "sine" wave early on; it seems to me that a square wave might be a much better waveform to feed a rectifier than a sine, since the peak and RMS values are closer. There's nothing in a modern personal computer that cares about the wave shape. You could probably run a computer power supply on white noise if you could get enough of it...--Wtshymanski (talk) 16:53, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Waveshape marketing

message: https://www.littleboxchallenge.com from Google
Is it must be included into a page? --Nashev (talk) 12:25, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No. BTW. the winner is at [ http://littleboxchallengecetpower.com/ ] --Guy Macon (talk) 04:35, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  littleboxchallenge.com 

message: It seems like the battery section should be removed. The storage of the output energy is not relevant to inverters themselves. At the very least, it should be listed under applications.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.170.131.235 (talk) 05:36, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battery section 

message: The respective section currently states: "The peak voltage to RMS voltage ratio does not maintain the same relationship as for a sine wave."
This should be clarified to state that is is true only in general, for arbitrary choices of the duty cycle. It is possible specifically to choose each "on" period to be equal to each "off" period to achieve the desired RMS/peak ratio, as stated in Root mean square#RMS of common waveforms.
I have not been bold because I don't have a good reference at hand. --SoledadKabocha (talk) 20:57, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Years later - if you think about the definition of RMS (the square root of the average of the squared value), you can soon persuade yourself that if the pules is "on" hlaf the time and "off " the other half, its RMS value is 0.707 of the peak value (square root of its average (squared)value of 0.5). In that sense, the thre-step waveform can be made to have the same ratio between "peak" and "RMS" value as a sine wave. Hence the marketing expression "modified sine wave", I expect. --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:05, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  RMS/peak ratio of modified sine wave 

message: An inverter is a machine the takes a DC input and generates an AC output. This article however focuses almost entirely on solid state inverters that use various diode types and arrangements to generate their AC signal. The article does mention in passing Motor-Generator sets and Thyratrons, however we should do more to showcase other historical, or mechanical/analog inverters as they are both interesting in their ingenuity, and useful for historical perspective. We should also give more explanation to each of these analog inverters as some of the linked  articles only give a cursory overview and lack deal depth. 31173x (talk) 02:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That's generalizing "inverter" beyond what is commonly accepted as its definition. At best we could link to articles on electromechanical methods of developing alternating current, but no-one called a motor-generator set an "inverter", (as an example). --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:12, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-diode/analog based inverters. 

message: These statements under "Output Waveform" -> "Sine Wave" there are the following two statements which seem to contradict each other:
1) ".. just a less choppy output than the square wave (two step) and modified sine wave (three step) inverters."
2) "Sine wave inverters with more than three steps in the wave output are more complex and have significantly higher cost than a modified sine wave, with only three steps, or square wave (one step) types of the same power handling."
So is a square wave one or two step? JackW2 (talk) 04:03, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction in 'Input and Output's section 

message: Should there be an article on stand-alone inverters? After all, we have one on grid-tie inverters. It's also used as a link target, even from See also lists, yet we don't have an article on it or any content in this article.
There used to be an article but it was deleted as "pollution", which is crap. Slava Ukraini fellas (talk) 10:57, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Stand-alone inverter]] article? 

message: The redirect CCFL inverter has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Utopes (talk / cont) 08:07, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:CCFL inverter]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]