Talk:St Mary's Church, Gdansk (Danzig)

message: It's a compromise based on the fact that the name of the city was "Danzig" at the time of construction, and is now "Gdansk". Mkweise 19:01, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Note to future readers: at the time of writing the above the title was St Mary's Church of Danzig (Gdansk) — Jor (Talk) 15:25, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: You've got a point about Gdansk (Danzig) vs. Danzig (Gdansk). I have no objection to switching the order in which the names are listed, if that will put an end to the revert war. Mkweise 16:51, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Wik is reverting now (or continuing reverts: may be his IP). — Jor (Talk) 16:52, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Rather than use Talk pages he insists on a quick poll: Wikipedia:Quickpolls#St_Mary's_Church — Jor (Talk) 17:14, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: Is anyone opposed to moving to St Mary's Church or St Mary's Church, Poland? Then the city naming compromise is gone from the article title, and can be dealt with something like "standing in Gdańsk (Danzig), …" — the Gdańsk/Danzig article discusses the city name in detail. — Jor (Talk) 15:36, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Has been suggested before—but this isn't the only St Mary's Church, nor even the only one in Poland. We already have an article on St Mary's Church in Kraków. Mkweise 16:01, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. Any others in Pommerania? St Mary's Church (Pommerania) / St Mary's Church in Pommerania / St Mary's Church, Pommerania? — Jor (Talk) 16:14, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: Alternatively a page MOVE to a neutral location. — Jor (Talk) 17:03, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I recuse myself from protecting my own revision. If this page needs protection, another admin should do it. Mkweise 17:09, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Any thoughts on using Pommerania as a disambig title instead of Danzig/Gdańsk? — Jor (Talk) 17:21, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems rather odd. It would be like moving the London Tube to Tube in Middlesex.Halibutt 17:40, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: 1)Agreed there. But we really do not need yet another location for the Danzig/Gdansk/whatever slugging match... — Jor (Talk) 17:42, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: LOL, how about St Mary's Church in you-know-where? Seriously, we should not sacrifice clear and unambiguous article titles for the sake of weasely political correctness. Mkweise 19:02, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case Wikipedia should create a 'list of cities in Poland with other names', and strongly enforce the forms given there... — Jor (Talk) 19:03, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Although it takes no clarvoyant to know that such a list will be as hotly disputed as the individual pages are now. Some German users refuse to accept Polish names, and some Polish users refuse to accept historic German names... — Jor (Talk) 19:08, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: There already is a List of European cities with alternative names. I think it might be good if all articles about Polish cities with disputed names linked there. As for St Mary's, I'd prefer St Mary's Church of Gdansk (Danzig) (current name first - after all, if you want to visit the church, you have to go to Gdańsk, not Danzig). But I can live with St Mary's Church of Danzig (Gdansk). --Kpalion 19:20, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no objection to your moving the article to St Mary's Church, Gdansk (Danzig), if Halibutt and Jor can live with that. If it's really true, as Halibutt states below, that User:Nico is the only one who has a problem with St Mary's Church, Gdansk that that's fine with me too—though of course the German name should remain in the article text in any case. Mkweise 20:03, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: I'd rather have both names in the title than two separate, competing articles under different names; that was a situation I found completely unacceptable. Mkweise 19:41, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps protecting redirect pages could be a good solution. This could prevent people from changing redirects to new competing articles which would differ from the main article in nothing but the title and the first sentence. --Kpalion 20:05, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope you mean not as a general rule, as this would effectively make it impossible to move a page in order to create a disambiguation page. — Jor (Talk) 20:07, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: According to Wikipedia policy, protecting a page is never a good solution, but rather an emergency measure that we resort to when all else fails. Mkweise 20:13, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: Well, I'd rather have this article at St Mary's Church in Gdansk since this is the name used in English (look at the links posted) and this is the name of the city. After the evidence has been posted and starting an edit war failed, Nico simply created a new, similar and competing article. IMO that should be fixed and the whole case ended.Halibutt 21:47, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright...since it appears that the total number of Wikipedians opposed to that is one, let's try it and see what happens. I'll use a comma rather than a preposition, since that's more in keeping with encylopedic style (compare e.g. Christ Church, Oxford). Mkweise 22:24, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page title should be acceptable to all 

message: Cautious, why did you remove my reference to the Teutonic Order?Halibutt 10:48, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: TO

message: #The CIA World Factbook 2003 calls the city Gdansk.
#Encyclopedia Britannica Online calls the city Gdansk.
#en:Wikipedia calls the city Gdansk.
Now, since the church is IN Gdansk right now, the title should probably be (IMHO) St Mary's Church in Gdansk (as previously suggested by Halibutt), this is in line with the article title of St Mary's Church in Kraków. Anyone who searches for St Mary's Church in Danzig will still get there as it will be a redirect. The fact that Gdansk was previously named Danzig (English language of course) is only relevant if we use OF in the title rather than IN. Anyone have a better suggestion than this? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 20:35, Apr 3, 2004 (UTC)
While we're at it, why is the title of the article Kraków on En? Shouldn't it be at Krakow seeing as how English doesn't have an accented o? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 20:35, Apr 3, 2004 (UTC)
:The traditional English name for Kraków is Cracow. However, it's been decided (see: Talk:Cracow) to use the Polish name. Krakow is neither Polish nor English - it's a hybrid resuliting from ommiting the diacritic due to technical reasons. Since it's technically possible to use Ó in Wikipedia article titles, it should be written Kraków. --Kpalion 21:06, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Other sources