Talk:Go of Balhae

message: I need help with the romanization.  Also, if anyone wants to tackle it, there's a lot more information at  for the Chinese-literate. Mgmei 19:29, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for Romanization

message: per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean), how about naming this article Go of Balhae, for consistency. it's not required, & redirects will cover both, but since dae joyoung is not exactly a common household english name, might as go with the consistent naming, imho. Appleby 00:32, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  rename to Go of Balhae? 

message: A korean source quotes that the Sinicized 乞乞 of the autochtone word "Qiqi" means "Great" (Hangul :대 Hanja/Hanzi :大)
한자 표시의 ‘걸걸(乞乞)’은 그 훈(訓)이 아니라, 그 발음을 봐야 한다.
(...)
대(大)[da, 돋은]= [qiqi, 치치](乞乞)= ‘첫 (솟은)’이어야 한다. 
(...)
더구나 ‘걸걸(乞乞)’ 말갈족 성씨이고, ‘대(大)’는 조선족 성씨이다
Conclusion : 
Qiqi Zhongxiang also know as Dae Jung-sang are both correct because the first one is the Chinese pronouciation of the word Qiqi written in the Chinese Old records in Classical Chinese while the second one prouve us that the autochtone language do not belong to Chinese language family.
Da Zhongxiang is just a sinicized word 
and Geolgeol is not really considered as a Korean name. 
Sources :
http://www.arirang-world.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t12305.html
http://www.sungyoung.net/story/daijoyoung.html—Preceding unsigned comment added by Whlee (talk • contribs) 17:40, 3 April 2007 Whlee
===="乞乞" was probably Old Korean or at least cognate with the Korean word.====
The word “乞乞” may have been read either in goguryeonized reading or in Middle Chinese reading for Hanzi.
Let’s look at the Goguryeo reading for Hanzi. The personal name of the King Micheon of Goguryeo was 乙弗 (a transcription into Hanzi) or 乙弗利 (a variant transcription into Hanzi). The variation of the personal name of the Goguryeo king shows that the consonant-final sound of the character “弗” was not “T” but “L or R”. This is one of the some examples which proves that Sino-Korean reading is close to Goguryeo reading for Hanzi. For reference, “乞乞” in Sino-Korean pronunciation is [klkl]
So, I postulate that Goguryeo reading for the character “乞” was pronounced [k+(vowel)+l]. As for the Middle Chinese reading, considering the diverse reconstructions of the reading by linguists, I postulate that the Middle Chinese pronunciation for it was [k+(vowel)+t].
And the Korean native reading for “大” is exactly [kl]. Possibly [k+(vowel)+l] or  [k+(vowel)+t] was Old Korean or at least cognate with the Korean word. To the contrary, Manchu word for “大” is [amba], hardly to imagine to be cognate with above mentioned reading.
After having become the royal family of Balhae, the family of Dae Jo-yeong felt the need to create a surname which could represent their dynasty diplomatically to the neighboring countries. It is easy to imagine that their native surname meaning “great” was turned into “大” which was equivalent in meaning to “乞”
It could be a good example to study how native Korean surnames have changed into Chinese-like surnames.
Jagello (talk) 09:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Etymology" of Qiqi Zhongxiang  and relationship with Dae Jung-sang

message: The word “乞乞” may have been read either in goguryeonized reading or in Middle Chinese reading for Hanzi.
Let’s look at the Goguryeo reading for Hanzi. The personal name of the King Micheon of Goguryeo was 乙弗 (a transcription into Hanzi) or 乙弗利 (a variant transcription into Hanzi). The variation of the personal name of the Goguryeo king shows that the consonant-final sound of the character “弗” was not “T” but “L or R”. This is one of the some examples which proves that Sino-Korean reading is close to Goguryeo reading for Hanzi. For reference, “乞乞” in Sino-Korean pronunciation is [klkl]
So, I postulate that Goguryeo reading for the character “乞” was pronounced [k+(vowel)+l]. As for the Middle Chinese reading, considering the diverse reconstructions of the reading by linguists, I postulate that the Middle Chinese pronunciation for it was [k+(vowel)+t].
And the Korean native reading for “大” is exactly [kl]. Possibly [k+(vowel)+l] or  [k+(vowel)+t] was Old Korean or at least cognate with the Korean word. To the contrary, Manchu word for “大” is [amba], hardly to imagine to be cognate with above mentioned reading.
After having become the royal family of Balhae, the family of Dae Jo-yeong felt the need to create a surname which could represent their dynasty diplomatically to the neighboring countries. It is easy to imagine that their native surname meaning “great” was turned into “大” which was equivalent in meaning to “乞”
It could be a good example to study how native Korean surnames have changed into Chinese-like surnames.
Jagello (talk) 09:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "乞乞" was probably Old Korean or at least cognate with the Korean word.

message: The term 別種, which is obsolete and also ambiguous, was used in old Chinese texts tracing the origins (族源) of foreign nations or tribes.
So in order to interpret the real meaning of the term 別種, it's necessary to examine the usage of the term 別種 in other passages from the Jiutangshu (舊唐書) focusing on the ethnology.
<舊唐書>
高麗(Goguryeo)者出者夫餘(Buyeo)地別種也 
日本(Japan)國者倭(wa)國之別種也 
If we translate the term 別種 from its context, it should mean "an offshoot nation" having parted from the origin nation.
But as for Dae Joyeong who was not a nation but the founder of Balhae, it would be better to translate the character 種 to "a stock" than a nation or a tribe.
Jagello 16:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding the term "別種"

message: *Since , indefinitely blocked sockpuppeter, has kept evading his block sanction with sock accounts and IPs such as  this time here again, the header and box are added to differentiate other discussions from his comments instead of blanking per WP:BAN. See WP:SPI/Azukimonaka and its chronicle. --Caspian blue 23:57, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Go of Balhae#Japanese primary source presented by 青鬼よし. --Caspian blue 10:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Sockpuppeter Azukimonaka's block evasions in 2009

message: To User:Caspian blue, It is written "自高氏以來、朝貢不絶" in the quoted source "類聚國史". The term of the 朝貢 is a meaning of "pay tribute".  If you insist that this translation is not correct, we will discuss it on the page of Talk:Tribute. --青鬼よし (talk) 04:28, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Go of Balhae#Japanese primary source presented by 青鬼よし. --Caspian blue 10:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding the term "朝貢"

message: I removed the whole dubious primary source inserted by . I guess this is another instance on misuse of primary sources that I've faced from many Japanese editors from 2ch including the notorious block-evading sockpuppeter 's disruption at Silla, Baekje, History of Korea, Kofun period, History of Japan and many others. (e.g. Talk:History of Japan/Archive 3#Block-evading Sockpuppeter User:Azukimonaka's complaints) The dubious Japanese source does not have any link nor following secondary or academic source in which which scholar insists for the fringe view. Moreover, the receiver of tribute is not also specified in the primary source, so precise translation is required. I researched on the subject, and found out the general scholarship agree that the Japanese insistence of Balhae being a Japanese tributary status is a "purely Japanese fantasy and delusion" or "preposterously" to justify the Japanese invasions to Korea and Manchuria during the early 20th century (those expressions are not mine, but scholars'). Since 青鬼よし is responsible for keeping inserting the fringe theory by engaging in edit warring, he should precisely present English translation word by word with links, and who claims the theory with the primary source. If he successfully presents them, I will of course give the aforementioned scholar's assessments. So the ball is up to 青鬼よし.
--Caspian blue 10:26, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese primary source presented by 青鬼よし 

message: Also, don't use these on talk pages. — LlywelynII 14:37, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Well, sucks to remove cited material from an article but, as it stands, there's no way "east" is an accurate translation of Go's state's name. That was what the earlier Jin's name meant and Go's state might have intended to simply be a variant form of that name but, without that being explicitly mentioned, it seems more likely the author just confused 辰 and 震. See the name section at Balhae. — LlywelynII 14:37, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:RS]]

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: The article is very distorted in favor of the Korean version of the origin and nationality of this person. Non-historical foundation. Links to unreliable sources are given as links. The article needs to be fully reworked. Ulianurlanova (talk) 15:08, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pro-Korean distortion