Talk:Li (surname meaning "profit")

message: There is an inactive workgroup in WikiProject China dealing with surnames. Can I suggest that the workgroup be revived and all discussions be taken through it rather than dealt with in relation to just one or a few surnames. There some general questions here: 
*What to do when different surnames have the same transliteration (with or without tone diacritics)?
*What to do about Korean and Vietnamese surnames: are they the same surname as the Chinese one that takes the same character?
*What to include about the different surnames, does there have to be an article on each?
Perhaps more. 
Anyway, these questions aren't unsurmountable. With a bit of WP:AGF we can get some working guidelines and see in practice how they serve us over the next year or so. 
What do you all say? Itsmejudith (talk) 12:44, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It certainly seems reasonable - the issue here seems to have grown much larger than the original move request.  Although, as with all Wikiprojects, you do run the risk of a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS without the participation of the Wikicommunity at large.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:48, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't be against an RfC at this stage. And it would be good to alert WikiProject China because that could bring in many more editors with an interest in this area. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:54, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've thought for a while that we need some more eyes on this.  And RfC is fine by me.  If we seek input from Wikiproject China, we should also seek it from a project neutral to the subject (MoS maybe) in order to avoid any systemic bias.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:01, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with more eyes, and RfC fine, and WP:LOCALCONSENSUS concern, also informing Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation. Li is a mess (I marked for DAB cleanup), and the other articles lack references. This is poor work guys - without references (for notability and basis of an article) we are fiddling while Rome burns.  Widefox; talk 15:08, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Widefox it is "poor work" yes but DK and myself have worked as far as able - adding sources, cleaning up, within the limits imposed by some of those on this RM. My concern is it will remain "poor work" if a poor-work limit is imposed on these articles. Which will guarantee editors who know about the subject will be less likely to work on them. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:12, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If topics/articles aren't notable (by having no WP:RS), then they are merged or deleted. That makes all the above moot, and disruptive IMHO. Widefox; talk 12:23, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject China workgroup 

message: See Talk:Li (surname) where a second discussion has been opened on this topic of names, articles, how many to have, how to organize them. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 00:05, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No - that discussion is regarding the merger of recently created non-notable unintelligible stubs.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:12, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newer discussion 

message: I'd say we try to reach a consensus: here to see if the guideline can be changed or not.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  16:13, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The guidelines governing naming of Chinese-related articles are at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese). It's obvious that this issue should have been addressed in the Naming Conventions a long time ago. To reach a broader audience and avoid potential problems with WP:Localconsensus, I will propose an addition to Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) while notifying other related project pages. -Zanhe (talk) 19:42, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Changing the guideline at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) would be WP:LOCALCONSENSUS.  This is a policy issue and needs to be addressed as such.  It makes no difference what is decided at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) if it goes against policy.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 21:43, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: As this discussion mainly concerns article names of Chinese surnames, I believe Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese) is the most appropriate venue for it. As I mentioned above, I will post notices on relevant talk pages such as WP:AT as well. But if you believe there's a more appropriate venue for the discussion, please name it. -Zanhe (talk) 22:02, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, this is a policy issue.  It needs administrator intervention or WP:VILLAGEPUMP discussion.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 22:24, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've posted a thread on WP:Article titles summarizing the problem and requesting amendment of WP:UE policy, with notifications on Village Pump and WP:NC-ZH.  -Zanhe (talk) 23:25, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone had already started something at Wikipedia talk:Article titles#Hope to introduce new guidelines on Chinese/Korean/Japanese surnames.  Now we seem to be having the same conversation in many places.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 06:23, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Rob, I think you misunderstand what the job of administrators are. Administrators are not the Wikipedia police, they are, in the words of Jimbo himself, glorified janitors. They are here to clean up messes, not to uphold policy; upholding policy is the job of the community. If you are concerned about a local consensus, consider starting a WP:RfC or something. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 05:51, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: And this is a mess that needs to be cleaned up.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 06:23, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No one is engaging in disruptive editing here. What we have is a content disagreement between editors. These things are solved with RfCs, because there is no correct answer, only differing opinions. It is not the job of an administrator to determine who is correct during an argument. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 06:28, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, someone threatened WP:ANI earlier. --Rob Sinden (talk) 06:45, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's focus on changing the guidelines 

message: There is a Request for Comment concerning this article at Talk:Li_(surname)#RFC_regarding_multiple_Chinese_surnames_transliterated_to_the_same_surname_in_English.  Please provide input there.--Wikimedes (talk) 03:38, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC at Li (surname)