Talk:NFL coaching trees

message: Somewhat of an indirect tree relation, but Lane Kiffin is the son of Monte Kiffin who was Tony Dungy's defensive coordinator in Tampa Bay. Monte Kiffin is the mastermind behind the Tampa 2 scheme, which is the defensive philosophy and hallmark of the Dungy branches of the coaching tree.
Lane Kiffin worked under Pete Carroll at USC, and Pete Carroll I'm almost positive came up under Bill Walsh with the 49ers...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dukie Steel (talk • contribs) 07:50, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Lane Kiffin

message: Are we to think that Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, and Marty Schottenheimer taught every coach in the NFL today.  I don't think coach Lovie Smith ever coached under any of them.  He coached with a coach that coached with one of those coaches, get it?
:Obviously you don't get it.  What you are explaining at the end is actually the whole point of creating a coaching tree.  It shows a teaching relationship instead of a family relationship (see Family Tree).  Marty Schottenheimer was one of the few Head Coaches who hired and influenced Tony Dungy.  (Dungy was also originally hired and influenced by Chuck Noll and then later also worked under Dennis Green before he went to Tampa).  Dungy was then one of the Head Coaches who hired and influenced Lovie Smith.  Get it?  Justvikings 18:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I get it.  Coaching trees just show relationships between coaches.  If you want to get into who learned which philosophy from who then you would probably have to interview each individual coach.  And I'm sure that in Bill Walsh's case maybe some of the coaches that he groomed would give him credit for influencing their philosophy.  Some of them may not, even though they worked for him.  You could also argue where to draw the line.  Can an offensive coach influence a defensive coach?  Can an assistant who spends a short time under a Head Coach be counted as being part of his tree (like Dennis Green under Bill Walsh)?  I admit that Coaching Trees can be ambiguous and everyone will have a different theory as to what constitutes a relationship between two coaches.  However, if you compare a coaching tree to a family tree then there is only one way to determine if a relationship can be shown.  A child that is actually born to a parent takes his/her place on that parents family tree regardless of whether or not that parent actually influenced that child or not.  The only way to define the criteria for position on a tree is whether or not that coach was part of the Head Coaches staff.  If he was on a particular coaches staff then he can be counted as being part of that particular coaches tree.  Unless you can show me a reference that states otherwise I'll assume that this is the only way to define placement on a coaching tree.  If you want to develop a coaching tree based only on philosophical influence then more power to you, developing such a tree would likely be problematic and I would be interested to see it. Justvikings 17:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trees?

message: Josh McDaniels needs to be added under Bill Belichick's coaching tree, now that he has been hired as head coach of the Denver Broncos.  Nonpoint74 (talk) 22:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Josh McDaniel

message: Mora, Zorn, and Jauron need to have their red underlinings removed as they are no longer head coaches in the NFL. Actually, why not scrap the underlining altogether? Keeping the underlining would require updating the GIFs every time a coach gets fired.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.191.126.55 (talk) 04:56, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Updates

message: Paul Brown is the father of modern football, not Bill Walsh. Walsh is his disciple. Shottenheimer is a throw back to the non modern era, as are the coaches under him.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.202.227.110 (talk) 05:03, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul Brown 

message: Shouldn't John Gruden be placed under George Siefert or Mike Holmgren or Ray Rhodes?  Gruden was an assistant under Mike Holmgren with the Packers and the 49ers and was hired as the head coach of the Oakland Raiders after serving as Ray Rhodes' offensive coordinator in Philadelphia.  Paul Hackett was Gruden's QB coach for a few seasons and they worked together at the University of Pittsburgh but his first NFL job was with the 49ers under Siefert working for Mike Holmgren and he was hired away from the Eagles under Ray Rhodes.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.208.14.211 (talk) 02:51, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Jon Gruden