Talk:Clan MacBean

message: I have added a Tag above to show that a private website is copying its history page directly from this Wikipedia article.QuintusPetillius (talk) 16:09, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Copying from Wikipedia

message: Shouldn't this article be renamed? Certainly a Google books search for this century seems to support a rename to MacBean. Dougweller (talk) 10:15, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting but doesn't the chief of the clan spell his name as "MacBain" ? mjgm84 (talk) 14:44, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Chief's name notwithstanding, the consensus in the article and references for the name of the clan itself appears to be "MacBean". The article title should be the same. – Wdchk (talk) 01:42, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have nominated the existing redirect "Clan MacBean" for speedy deletion as blocking this consensual page move. The existing redirect has a history, but it is trivial and not worth preserving. – Wdchk (talk) 02:19, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename to MacBean 

message: This article contains absolutely masses of unsourced information. Not only that the information is far to long winded and over bloated. It is also not encyclopedic. Therefore I intend to re-write the article and it will be completely referenced.QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:37, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Further, the article is full of massive quotations that are un-encyclopedic. The article is not written in the form of a proper Wikipedia article. Also the source I shall be using which is the Collins Scottish Clan & Family Encyclopedia, and which is approved by the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs, gives the spelling of the clan name as "MacBain" not "MacBean". I will not change the spelling for now but will only be concentrating on the article content. Also the article has been tagged as having a lack of sources/inline citations since 2008.QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Major re-write of article needed

message: The lines "Some have taken a leap of imagination to propose that the etymologically connected name of McBheatha" and "Lastly, and more probable is the derivation given by Alexander MacBain in his respected An Etymological Dictionary of the Gaelic Language" are clearly not written from a neutral point of view. I have therefore added the Tag.QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:48, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality

message: Furthermore prior to edits by User:Fferllys today this article was perfectly sourced. The user in question does not seem to understand what Wikipedia is about and has taken to adding vasts amount of unsourced information. I must point out that any of this unsourced information can be removed from Wikipedia without warning, something I expect the said user will not understand either. The user has also taken to changing the spelling of the surname MacBain to MacBean, even though the source quoted, which is a reliable source states "MacBain". And on that point I will be investigating what the official clan name is. If it turns out to be MacBain - which is how the Clan Chief spells it, then the article will be changed as such. You cannot rely on unofficial clan web sites to oppose this.QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:48, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Under Scottish law, a man named MacBain cannot be chief of a clan named MacBean. His surname has to be the clan name. But don't get me wrong, I know that people who have the different spelling variations can still be part of the clan.
Yes, I think the then Lord Lyon tried to persuade the previous chief to change his surname to the clan's name, rather than get the clan to change to his, but there were very good reasons why he didn't wish to do that. Hence today's use of MacBean often for the clan, despite the chief's own surname being McBain...mostly its written 'McBain (or MacBean)' or MacBean (or McBain)' or something like that! One of life's peculiarities :)--Fferllys (talk) 17:53, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

text: We should be clear that the website clanmacbean.net is actually that of "Clan MacBean, Inc." . Clan societies and associations aren't clans themselves. One of Thomas Innes of Learney's books goes on about how armigerous societies/associations are actually 'indeterminate cadets' according to the Law of Arms, just like armigerous members of any given clan. So in effect, armigerous societies/associations can be regarded as 'corporate clansmen'. I wonder if mcbainofmcbain.com could be regarded as the 'official' website of clan/chief? It's hard to tell, since there's no 'about' section, but some posts are attributed to "McBain of McBain" and a certain "Lady Peggy of McBain of McBain". Anyway, its blurb on the chief is states that he "Matriculated arms 15th February 1979 by Lord Lyon King of Arms as the 22nd Hereditary Chief of the Ancient Celtic Clan McBain (MacBean)" .--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 11:33, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Lack of sources

message: Lets just get a few things straight about the Clan MacBean article. Wikipedia is not about quoting large exact excerpts from the given sources. In this case: "An Etymological Dictionary of the Gaelic Language". By all means quote this book as a source but put it into your own words - this is what Wikipedia is all about - reflecting what the sources say in your own words. Another thing I would like to mention is that the source I have used (Collins Scottish Clan Encyclopedia) uses both the spelling MacBean and MacBain depending on which individual it is referring to and it is important to use the same spelling of someone's name that is used in the source. For example the book I have used, uses the spelling MacBean for the 6 foot 4 inch hero at the Battle of Culloden and then uses the spelling MacBain for the man who helped Cameron of Lochiel off the field at the same battle. This brings me to another problem. As I have already mentioned the chief spells his name as MacBain and under Scottish law a man named MacBain cannot be chief of a clan named MacBean - the chief's surname has to be that of the clan name. But don't get me wrong, I know that people who have the different spelling variations can still be part of the clan. I am not in a great rush to change the article name but thought I should mention this. I am more concerned about the article content. Another thing, regarding the historical accuracy of the information Wikipedia is about reflecting what the sources say - even if it is not necessarily accurate. If there is a piece of sourced information that you don't agree with then you must quote a source that says otherwise in order to remove what you think is incorrect information. And lastly may I remind everyone that any unsourced information can be removed from Wikipedia without warning. Thanks. QuintusPetillius (talk) 17:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Article content

message: Perhaps the MacBean/MacBain controversy could be better dealt with by recognizing that back before 1500, most documents were written by hand, and even so, most histories were oral, at least in this part of the world. Differing accents might give rise to different spellings, and individual idiosyncrasies in pronouncing words might fool even the most accomplished and practiced scribe. The British word "clerk" sounds like the American name "Clark". And there are other kinds of pronunciations which could lead to spelling errors: "Magdalene" sounds remarkably like "Maudlin", "Leicestershire" sounds like "Lestershire", and so on. It might be best to trace people back to ancestral lands to determine chances of consanguinity rather than rely on the spelling of a name alone; people back then did not in general enjoy the same degree of mobility as we have now, either due to lack of means or due to legal restriction. Streamfortyseven (talk) 21:36, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The spelling of the name whether MacBain or MacBean should be whatever spelling variation is used in the source that is being quoted. That is what Wikipedia is about.QuintusPetillius (talk) 12:17, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconsistent Spelling in Ages Past

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Clan MacBean. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120205223312/http://www.clanmacbean.net/clanhistory.html to http://www.clanmacbean.net/clanhistory.html
*Added  tag to http://centricphotohost.com/McBainPark/?page_id=2
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:04, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Charles Fraser-Mackintosh in 1898 spells the clan as Macbean instead of MacBean. This article uses MacBean just about everywhere. What is the proper spelling for the name of the clan?
ICE77 (talk) 01:58, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling: MacBean and Macbean