Talk:Zinedine Zidane/Archive 4

message: I just noticed that in the 1998 World Cup section, is states that headers are "(Zidane's biggest weakness)". I just wanted to know if this was POV or actually had a source, such as a quote from Zidane himself saying he's not so great at them. I just didn't think it belonged without a source. T.z0n3 18:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsourced Comment

message: I archived the discussions on his name so we could start over again but this time no long political rants and posts, no threats to disrupt Wikipedia, and lastly and most importantly no name calling.
Also remember to sign your name using four tildes, and please acknowledge that horizontal lines are unnecessary and annoying, use colons instead to seperate/distinguish your posts as shown below. --Inahet 19:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Colons are better than lines. --Inahet 19:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 2 cents. I think an Arabic version of his name should be there; Zidane may be a Kabyle, but his name is Arabic. However, a transliteration from the Arabic is taking it one step to far: the only legitimate version of his name in Latin script is simply "Zinedine Zidane". David Sneek 08:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The argument for the Arabic rendition is that it's an Arabic name. If I remember it correctly, "Zinedine" is Arabic for "ornament of faith", and "Yazid" means "he grows". David Sneek 18:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

text: OK, so then logically you’re arguing that everybody who has the name David should have the Hebrew rendering of their name, as David is a Hebrew name, yes? (Or, OK, wherever it’s from; Aramaic, or whatever.) When are you adding the Arabic script to Kareem Abdul Jabbar? (Or for that matter, Abdul-Karim al-Jabbar.) Should Pat Riley’s entry have a parenthetical Pádraic Raghaile? Wiki Wikardo 20:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: David is not an Aramaic name. It may have Aramaic origins, but that is hardly the same thing. The Pat Riley example makes even less sense to me; nobody is proposing to turn this article into the entry for an etymological dictionary, we're only discussing a possible transliteration. Zidane's parents are immigrants from a country where Arabic is the dominant language, he holds double nationality, and has a first name with a very specific meaning in Arabic - I don't see what is so problematic about us giving that name in Arabic. (I wouldn't object to an Arabic transliteration in the Kareem Abdul Jabbar article either, by the way. He chose the name for its meaning in that language.) David Sneek 09:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You don’t see what’s so problematic??? That’s because you’ve been brainwashed by ARABIST PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!!1 وكي وكاردو fini. 01:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: P.S.: That said, I don't think it is necessary to put a transliteration in the first sentence. A discussion of the origin of his name might also be placed, for example, next to the trivia section - where the transliteration will be viewed less as a political statement. "Though Zidane is of Kabyle origin, his name is Arabic... etc." David Sneek 09:48, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I believe previous versions of this article offered both an Arabic and a Tifinagh version of his name. That seemed fine to me, though it did clutter up the first paragraph. (Like I said above, if we include more details about his name, those would be better placed lower on the page.) David Sneek 15:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

text: (See also the Italian wikipedia. David Sneek 15:33, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Britonia, try to remain civil, that is assume good faith and don't attack anyone. Also remember Wikipedia isn't a soapbox --Inahet 15:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

text: His home country is France.
, is the Arabic part.
Zidane's father is named Ismail (إسماعيل) (which is the Arabic for Ishmael), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael Smail is the Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian & some of Libyan & some of Mauritanian way of pronouncing it. It is also pronounced Smail by Arabian Gulf bedouin tribes.
His mother is named Malika (مللك) which is Arabic for Queen, Malik is the male versian meaning King. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malika
One of his brothers who is coach of a team is named Farid (فريد) which is Arabic for "Unique". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farid Mazighe 08:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Man, I had it with this infantile topic. I wish Zidane had been born on some fucking remote island no one has ever heard of, because some people are obviously obsessive-compulsive about squeezing their cheesy ethnic pride into everything. How about contributing to the article instead? Zakaria5000 18:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Word the fuck up. —Wiki Wikardo
What the hell is going on? I'm gone for one day, and all hell broke loose? Wiki Wikardo, your comments are abusive and counterproductive. Zakaria, there is no need to swear and no need to be rude. This is meant to be a civil discussion, if you find comments offensive, just ignore them! Screwing up the talk page even more doesn't help! --Inahet 19:49, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: That's probably what you all needed, hopefully it will help stop this discussion. In the end, 99.9% of the people don't visit Zidane's page to see if there are Arabic characters on it or not. Man, you people are too intelliigent to waste your time in this bullshit. I wish I was half that smart so I can make better contributions. - ChaChaFut 02:50, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Those of us that wish the Arabic script to stay wish that cursing and the such be not permitted in this discussion board. The editor should remove the swearing/cursing posted by others on this board. This topic should carry civil behavior. Some are for the Arabic script some are not. It is not the end of the world if it was removed nor is it the end of Berber civiliztion if Arabic script was available. We must be civil and not exaggerate. Thanks for putting the Arabic script back. Oh, and I am still waiting for Sadiq to put Zidane's name in Tifinagh, that is at least one good contribution he could do. Note: For those of you who don't know what Tifinagh is, it is the Ancient Berber script for writting. The word Tifinagh is a feminine plural noun whose singular in Tamashek/Tafineqq; it means 'the Phoenician (letters)'. Tifinagh is derived from Phonecian. What is Phonecian? Phoenician is a Semitic language of the Canaanite subgroup, closely related to Hebrew and Aramaic. Being Semitic it is in turn related to Arabic. Mazighe 08:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arabic Berber transliteration

message: Given it seems highly probable the headbutt incident will remain a controversial and large topic that we need to discuss in detail, should we start to consider spinning it off into a seperate article? This is the common practice when a section gets too large and becomes disproportianate from the whole article leading to inbalance. To be fair, perhaps the headbutt section deserves to be as large as it is now given that it is clearly a very significant part of Zidane's career but IMHO, it's fairly likely that the headbutt incident is going larger then it's relevance to Zidane and therefore deserving/needing its own article. N.B. This doesn't mean we don't discuss the headbutt under Zidane, instead, we summarise the info as appropriate and link to the main article. Nil Einne 18:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely.  I was going to do it myself. As you have suggested it, please go ahead and create the new article. Thanks. Wallie 18:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I think there should be a seperate article for it as well. It is taking up way too much space in this one.--Sagacious 17:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also found it too long and brought it down to reasonable length. The head-butt (including aftermath) now takes up half of the 2006 World Cup section and roughly 1/6 of the whole article. Should be ok. I strongly disagree with the proposal of having an extra head-butt article. There is Zidane headbutt already, but I suggest that we include only pop-cultural references in there (the whole internet meme thing, videos, animations, edits, parodies, games, songs etc.), and not content which might be of interest in the context of Zidane's biography. Zakaria5000 18:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  I second your disagreement. It's a big deal in his career. He will be infamous for it. It's MUCH shorter than the section in Tyson's wiki page on the Holyfield incident. It warrants inclusion. It has been summarized concisely. If you want to re-balance the article, add other things about his career, but acknowledge that this is a major event (seeing as it was his LAST MATCH), and that it needs to be detailed. Do you really think people are coming to Zidane's page right now to read about his 2002 world cup appearance? No. They're interested in an encyclopedia's take on the headbutt. Who are you to decide whether people will talk about it or not? Dead men's bells 08:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should we start to consider separating the section on the headbutt? 

message: French Song hit, #1 on the Pop Charts making light of the Zidane head-butt (clearly in Zidane's favor). Title: Coupe de Boule. To watch video press http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWAJhUNj8Xg&search=coup%20de%20boule
Etienne Marcel's Translation of "Coup de Boule" lyrics:
Watch out, it's the headbutt dance!
(Headbutt, headbutt)
Headbutt to the right
(Headbutt, headbutt)
Headbutt to the left
(Headbutt, headbutt)
Go Blues!
Go,
Zidane, he hit [him], Zidane, he slapped [him] (Headbutt!)* 4x
The guido, he was hurt
Zidane hit [him]
The Italian's not doing well
Zidane slapped [him]
The ref saw it on the TV
Zidane hit [him]
But we lost the World Cup
We had a good laugh anyways
Zidane, he hit [him], Zidane, he slapped [him] (Headbutt!) 4x
Trezeguet didn't play
When he played he sucked
He screwed up everything
We lost the World Cup
Barthez didn't stop anything
And it's not even complicated
The sponsers are all angry
But Chirac was eloquent
Zidane, he hit [him], Zidane, he slapped [him] (Headbutt!) 4x
Watch out, it's the headbutt dance!
(Headbutt, headbutt)
Headbutt to the right
(Headbutt, headbutt)
Headbutt to the left
(Headbutt, headbutt)
Headbutt to the front
(Headbutt, headbutt)
Headbutt to the back
(Headbutt, headbutt)
And now it's the penalty
Attention please, he's gonna shoot
One, two, three...he missed!
Zidane, he hit [him], Zidane, he slapped [him] (4x)
We had a good laugh anyways
Zidane and Trezeguet
We lost the World Cup
Zidane and Trezeguet (2x)
And Trezeguet...and Trezeguet...and Trezeguet-guet-guet
Trezeguet
(Headbutt, headbutt)
and Trezeguet
(Headbutt, headbutt)
and Trezeguet
(Headbutt, headbutt)
and Trezeguet
(Headbutt, headbutt)
The information about this song should be worked into this page about Zidane. It is pertanent information.
::Please include information regarding the song in Zidane headbutt – it is clearly part of the (questionable) hype. Zakaria5000 14:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coupe de Boule 

message: Take a look at the Trivia section, I hope everyone is happy now and the edit war can come to an end. If you edit, please be careful with the parentheses (([])) and not (([]). I stopped counting how many times I have corrected this in the intro. Zakaria5000 12:51, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal for compromise (resolution) 

message: The picture that used to be here was removed because the terms of use required crediting the source.  I think crediting the source is preferable to having no image, and don't think that the caption credit was particularly cumbersome.  Other thoughts?--DaveOinSF 02:07, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I do. Having an image is nice, but not necessary. If the price we pay for this is having to give proper credit, it is right and good, and we can do this on the image page. If we are obliged to put a link to this site in every article that uses one of its images, then we can remove alltogether.--Kwame Nkrumah 13:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well first of all, credit is indeed given on the image page.  It doesn't say anything about requiring it there where it was.  And if we need to credit it on the Zidane page, it could be done in the Footnotes section.--DaveOinSF 15:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am sorry, but the copyright holder explicitly requests the credit to be present "whenever my images are used" (User_talk:Soccer-europe.com#Images from your website). And yes, we could put it in footnotes, but it still would be a promotional entry we could do without.--Kwame Nkrumah 15:38, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyrighted Image 

message: Image:Zidane Paris CdG.png Toira 10:10, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pic of Zidane 

message: For each firstname we will create a special article regarding its etimology, example:  -Issa- abdullah will link to -Issa (name)- (.... Issa is a firstname, it comes from the hebrew Yoshwa.... Bla bla bla), do the same thnig with Zinedine (by linking to another page), you can make 3 pages of etimology around that name, you can write in chinese script, hyroglyphs or any thing you can ***** on, that way you'll be a proud superior arab who speak the language of god.... I promise we will not intervene.... Toira 17:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't respond to this personal attack made by Toira, he/she has been warned, and if personal attacks persist, this user will be blocked. --Inahet 21:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 
I found a solution for the arab imperialistic propagandists and the others
 

message: For each firstname we will create a special article regarding its etimology, example:  -Issa- abdullah will link to -Issa (name)- (.... Issa is a firstname, it comes from the hebrew Yoshwa.... Bla bla bla), do the same thnig with Zinedine (by linking to another page). That way, every person with a name of arabic origin will be treated equally : be it mustafa kemal or zinedine zidane. Toira 21:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the solution has been found (a compromise) and that, as no one has attempted to readd the Arabic to the beginning, the issue is resolved, and I suspect talking about it further is counterproductive. BalthCat 21:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ok let's rephrase it : Solution to transliterations

message: As it stands now, the "Confrontation with Marco Materazzi" section is disproportionally big, both compared to the rest of the article, and also considering the article is about Zidane as a person, not that action and how everybody from Chirac to TIME magazine views that specific incident. Also, when both Zidane and Materazzi were involved, it would be better to collect all information at a "neutral ground" instead of spreading it out over the two seperate articles. I mean, just the fact that it is subsections in a subsection of a subsection shows that it is a small detail in the picture, but could have its own article. A new article named "Zinedine Zidane head butt of Marco Materazzi" (or whatever it was chiefly referred to as) should be made from the entire "Confrontation with Marco Materazzi" section.Poulsen 13:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is not so long as to justify a split. A lack of content in other areas does not indicate a problem in this one. Philc TECI 20:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I never mentioned a lack of content in other areas as a reason to split off, where do you have that from? Splitting it off isn't anything to do with length or size - but the fact that it has an emphasis of a sub-sub-subsection which skewers the article away from dealing with the subject of Zidane. Had it been an incident over a longer period of time, instead of a week-long media frenzy it would say something about Zidane, but the way it is it's more of an "event" in and of itself and quite independent of Zidane himself - and is mostly a media phenomenon. I'm not saying to not explain it at all, but to put it into perspective against the complete scope of his career. Alternately, the "Confrontation with Marco Materazzi" section could be its own level 1 header, in order to format it properly instead of the crummy bolded-only lines now representing "Provocation" section headers and so on. Poulsen 20:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is already an article Zidane headbutt - but it deals more with the internet memes and photoshops surrounding the incident, rather than the incident itself.  I just saw a link changed from Zidane headbutt to Zinedine Zidane#Confrontation with Marco Materazzi - I went to change it back, thinking the original would have more information about the incident, but found the opposite - the information about the headbutt itself isn't in the headbutt article.  I agree with the suggestion here most of the 'Confrontation ..' section here be split off to Zidane headbutt. -- Chuq 12:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split off Materazzi controversy 

message: Can someone with access to a reliable source confirm the club statistics in the infobox? They are out of step with other online sources like  Yahoo and footballdatabase.com. --Muchness 20:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Career stats

message: Why is the cost of Zinedine Zidane from Juventus to Real Madrid in Euros for? Real payed Juventus in pesetas. Isn't it supposed to be $66 million? Why isn't it written in pounds? He costed £47 million. Real payed Juventus 13 billion spanish pesetas- SCB '92 15:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Euros? 

message: Can someone check this. I don't read Spanish. Thnaks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 09:56, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The information is true, and was moved to the Zidane, un portrait du 21e siècle article. Thanks --ChaChaFut 16:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the confirming that. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 17:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent edit about Zidane's film

message: Now Im completely new to this and have only read a few discussions, but when I read the legacy section of the article it basically screamed bias. I dont know how to "tag" or anything that Ive seen mentioned, but I think its worth mentioning that at least one reader find this article lacking a NPOV... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.162.0.42 (talk) 18:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy section lacking NPOV