Talk:Ulster English

message: I honestly cannot believe this./ Craic is a GAELIC word for fun or a good laugh.It has been adopted from the Irish language and is originally an Irish word. I have been studying Irish for the past 3 years and it DEFINITELY comes from Irish. This honestly is the first time I've ever heard of anyone spell it crack. Must be the way some people spell it for it to fit in better with the English language and its literature. And its not an English loan-word, its an Irish loan word borrowed from the Irish language.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iliketurtlesandotheranimalstoo (talk • contribs) 00:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a mystery, but it is in common use in Ireland, and thus should remain on the article. D.de.loinsigh (Talk) 21:48 05 May 2008  —Preceding comment was added at 20:48, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Mystery solved. The word is not crack!! ~ R.T.G 17:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Craic agus ceol = Music and fun. Crack = whip or break which is not the same thing at all unless you are *crackers*. ~ R.T.G 15:13, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: craic

message: "The majority of vocabulary found in Mid-Ulster English (but not standard English) comes from Scots and Gaelic. Some examples are shown in the table below."
:The majority of vocabulary will no doubt be shared with standard English, including those items with distinctively MUE pronunciations.
I assume you mean 'non-standard vocabularly'. Any sources for the claim that the majority comes from Scots and Gaelic. How much of it is also of English descent (often shared with Scots) but now archaic in standard English?
[new poster]   
Strange, it gives us the spellings of the words even though Mid-Ulster English is basically just a collection of slang; in any document, essay etc. it's regarded as stupid to ever use these "non-standard words". Oh, and it depends where you are - there are many who do not use the word "bake" etc. It really depends, if you want to get beaten up, you use "big words" and normal langugae, otherwise you use this for oral communication. 82.18.181.78 22:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Majority of vocabulary 

message: Dannèr is spelt with an accent in Ulster-Scots, but I don't see the harm it makes to spell it the accented way. - 19:15, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the 1990s a few enthusiasts spell danner with an accent. It was never used in traditional (Ulster) Scots literature. It perhaps does no harm to spell it that way but in an encyclopedia it may give the impression that it has some pedigree. It does not, it is unnecessary and plain daft.
*It does not have any "pedigree" but I don't think it's plain daft. It reflects the "danther" pronunciation. You could of course simply spell it "danther".
How the unititiated are expected to recognise that the grave accent in the spelling dannèr is supposed to represent a dental consonant (is it a dental t or d?) in  daunder will remain a mystery. The roman alphabet not having a particular symbol for such a realisation. Replacing the acute with the digraph th is equally confusing since people unfamiliar with the dialect (although this is more a feature of accent) are likely to interpret th as the voiced dental fricative //, perhaps even the voiceless dental fricative //, and those  with a dental realisation of /d/ would realise it as such any way without any orthographic prompting. Since the obtuse spellings dannèr and danther are unlikely to illicit anything resembling the target realisation they are orthographically useless and simply a devise to exaggerate a minimal difference in pronunciation to a perceived standard. That would perhaps explain their scarcity in traditional dialect literature. Their recent use is a ploy to bamboozle rather than enlighten. 89.50.12.10 22:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Walking 

message: Ach! and och! are unlikely to be from Irish ach though reinforcement is a possibility. Ach! and och! simply retain the velar fricative // which has been lost in "standard" English Ah! and Oh!
: 'Och!' comes from Irish Irish, generally a short version of 'óchón' or 'alas'. 'Och' is used in quite a lot or old Irish traditional songs. 'Ach!' also comes from Irish. This is  reinforced through its pronunciation and the current English version used, 'But'.--Theosony (talk) 16:15, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ach! 

message: A few things I propose changing in the phonology section:
*IPA: earn ->  earn
*IPA: fate ->  fate
I'm not sure about the "pebber" and "paggit" pronunciations for "pepper" and "packet" either, but I suppose it depends what people think. -- the GREAT Gavini 19:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed corrections 

message: Sorry, but the middle of Ulster is Omagh; Belfast, Lisburn, Craigavon and Armagh are not at all Mid-Ulster. -- Pauric (talk-contributions) 06:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MID Ulster? 

message: The article of Mid Ulster English should be combined with Hiberno English or made into an article on Ulster English to include all accents in Ireland which form a brouge. This would include Donegal, a large part of Monaghan and Cavan and parts of Louth and Leitrim. This article is drawing political boundaries with accents which in Ireland makes no sense. For example in the article it says that the Tyrone accent/dialect has similarities with Hiberno English. But surely this is in reference to the similarities to the Donegal accent, which itself is more simliar to the Belfast accent than it is to the accents in Mayo or Dublin. Accents in Ireland change gradually across the country, and have absoulutely nothing to do with the Political Bounaries as this article would seem to suggest.
I propose either combining this article with Hiberno English, widening the boundaries of Ulster English to areas in Ireland which pronounce the "th" correctly and not with a "d" sound, or dividing the article into seperate accents  such as West Tyrone, Antrim, Belfast etc.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.28.202 (talk) 10:16, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political Boundaries 

message: What ever it is, it seems to have had a multicoloured resurection as :File:EnglishLanguageDialectsinUlster.Caini%C3%BAint%C3%ADB%C3%A9arlainUlaidh.jpg Also used for this article - GOTO first post in this thread. Nogger (talk) 12:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've created and uploaded a new map, since the one mentioned above is based on this article (which isn't fully sourced). It cites another website as a source, but that link is broken. Let me know what you think of the new one. ~Asarlaí 22:12, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: New map

message: Is whore more likely to be pronounced like floor and door or sure and cure? ~ R.T.G 21:38, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is not much difference between all 5, to my uneducated ear.  In more Scots-influenced districts, I think floor rhymes with dour.  I don't think that answers your question. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 16:31, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hoor is one of the more Scot sounding. It's hoor for sure. Anything newer is pure original research. It doesnt go as far as hoo noo broon coo. ~ R.T.G 21:15, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And!! What does it mean " "b" for "p" such as in "pepper" "?? Salt and bebber? Large chip, plenty of salt, no bebber thanks ha ha ~ R.T.G 17:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Red hot silly bebbers ~ R.T.G 03:29, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Lol.--Theosony (talk) 09:04, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

text: More commonly for "floor" and "door" would be "floe-wur" and "doe-wur", like a slightly "o-wuh" sound with some parts pronouncing both "ur" (not "oor"). "Whore" is often as "hoor" but that's one of very few "oor" which are probably the most confusingly distinct mis-match between Scottish, English, Northern Irish, Southern Irish and perhaps Welsh (a little like Northern Irish with an English accent on those syllables?), Northern Irish with "our" pronounced "aur" in most areas rather than the English "aow-er" or the Scottish "oor". Most of the south is rather like the English for those pronounciations oor-our. "Sour" rymes with "Tzar" and "hour" (aar) in Northern Irish, would be "saower" in English and southern Irish except Waterford and greater Dublin areas where it would be "seeuwar", and Scottish, ... Welsh, ... gah! forget it!! lol. ~ R.T.G 12:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

text: It's actually difficult to describe Northern Irish "floor" and "door" in a way that will be definitely picked up right but it is very like a lot of American accented "floor" and "door". Isn't "one" = "wan" a very Derry specific one? ~ R.T.G 15:11, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  floor whore door, vowel phonetics 

message: Seems Derry says it like teh Republic and Belfast says it more like the Scots, the latter less throaty for want of a better word, can someone confirm?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.1.176.4 (talk) 15:35, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "U" sound in up and cup 

message: The article states that the English of Monaghan and Cavan have more in common with central and western Ireland. This is utter nonsense. Anyone familiar with the colloquial English spoken in Cavan, Monaghan as well as Louth and the northern half of Meath knows that these are Ulster forms of English. Indeed the map should be amended to show that the southernmost isogloss dividing dialects with distinctly Ulster pronunciations from more southerly Leinster English is somewhere in the northern half of County Meath. The English of Navan for example (as parodied in the "Navan Man" sketches on Today FM some years ago) shares features of both south Ulster and Mid-Leinster English. Indeed, Donn Piatt is his now out of print Gaelic Dialects of Leinster found distinctly Ulster Irish traits in placename and loanword evidence from as far south as north County Dublin. An Muimhneach Machnamhach (talk) 13:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  South Ulster English 

message: I'm from the Republic of Ireland, and I've NEVER heard somebody say wojus. I have friends from all over the Republic and I've never come across it before reading it on here, yet apparently it's a feature of all dialects of Hiberno-English?
I'm just saying I think this is a mistake, I can't have lived in a country all my life and not be aware of a figure of speech. As in, if somebody said that to me I wouldn't know what they meant.
Please can somebody clarify so we can change it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.251.137 (talk) 20:58, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wojus? 

message: Possibly a loan word from Urdu: "bahnn gehecked" meaning a broken clay pot.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.232.252 (talk) 16:45, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banjaxed 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've removed the claim that dentalisation of /t/, /d/, etc. before /r/ is of Irish origin because it's demonstrably not, being shared with dialects of English in northern England, and Scots in Scotland, and not patterning in any way like the dental/non-dental distinction in Irish. See here for more details: http://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/files/23281273/PreRD_in_Scotland_paper_MAGUIRE.pdf  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.40.20 (talk) 16:46, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dentalisation of /t/, /d/ etc. before /r/ 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The list of Ulster dialect vocabulary contains numerous spurious entries and omits many dialect words a visitor would be likely to encounter.
Bog, glen, grub, gob, hey, keen, malarkey, smidgen and tip are all standard English. The fact that a word like 'bog' is derived from Irish or Scots Gaelic is irrelevant. One might as well say that 'Tory' and 'whisk(e)y' are Ulster dialect expressions. 'Hey' and 'tip' are unmarked standard English (there is a dialect use of 'hey' in Ulster Scots areas). 'Grub', 'gob' 'malarkey' and 'smidgen' are slang or colloquialisms used throughout British English and beyond, and certainly not Ulster regional dialect.  'Glen' and 'keen' are mostly encountered in an Irish or Scottish context, but again that doesn't make them regional dialect as such.
'Oul', 'tae' and 'houl' and the apparently now-deleted 'feg' are simply 'eye dialect'. Do they really deserve an entry. We often see spellings such as 'laff' for Northern England and 'reely' for the London area to indicate a broad local accent. What's the difference?
Is there any evidence that 'cat-melodeon' has ever actually been uttered in actual natural speech? Banjax seems to be a recent import to most of the British Isles. Poke isn't ice-cream, its a serving of the stuff.
As for omissions, I suggest as widely used dialect expressions, hotpress (airing cupboard), snib (window or door catch), skelf (a splinter under the skin), ballot(raffle), shed (hair parting). bun (any small cake), working kitchen (kitchen), messages (shopping, even the physical items), dote (an adorable person), maggot (prankster), wick (bad), cat (bad), class (very good), grand (OK, fine), give off (complain), gravy ring (doughnut), take-on (scam), annoyed (bothered), polite (affected, 'lah-di-dah'), kitchen house (small terraced house)
Aviarist (talk) 09:24, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think 'class' is interchangeable with 'very good' - I can't imagine describing, say, food as class. So class is closer to cool. I would say a poke is specifically a cone of ice cream.  'Atheist' stands out as the only 'a'-as-a-prefix word to use the 'idea' diphthong.  In the Lagan Valley, 'oven' is awven instead of uvven, as in Scots, even though no other word is as in Scots.  Fag becoming feg, on the other hand, is not a single-word change, as jaggy becomes jeggy.  Old people's 'brave' - "our working kitchen's brave and small".  A prominent road, e.g. Lisburn Road, becomes 'The' Lisburn Road, although I'm not sure if that's not standard English. Stuart Morrow (talk) 20:26, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vocabulary Section 

message: Should Mid-Ulster English have its own article? I say yes since this is a historical dialect spoken by any Ulster people. That Northern Irish Historian (talk) 15:29, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separate Mid-Ulster article