Talk:Medical torture

message: Zillions of physicians in all the countries of the world where this has occurred plus  Phil Gingrey, U.S. Representative from Georgia, has publicly defended administration of the Guantanamo detention camp
So I took it out. Alteripse 20:11, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Physicians who have participated in or defended governments that condone torture in prison camps

message: Please stick to the subject of medical torture, i.e. medical procedures performed deliberately as a form of torture.
To define torture: the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain as a means of cruelty, intimidation, punishment, for the extraction of a confession or information or simply for the entertainment of the perpetrator.
Examples:
* Medical examination for the purposes of torture.
* Invasive medical procedures for the purposes of torture.
* Administering drugs for the purposes of torture.
* Vivisection for the purposes of torture.
Examples would be Josef Mengele and Unit 731.
Medical staff assisting a cover-up and falsifying medical records IS NOT medical torture. It is unethical, yes, but it is not medical torture. Did the torture in Abu Ghraib include bona-fide medical procedures as a deliberate part of the torture?
Kyz 19:52, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please stop the edit war. 

message: It seems to me that there's been precious little disagreement (or editing) recently, any edit wars seem to be over and the remaining incidents are undeniable, significant or appropriately laden with weasel terms. As such, I'm removing the NPOV notice. -- Kizor 15:58, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this NPOV? 

message: I think that defining Allawi a dictator apppointed by U.S. is obviously a POV, but it has been there for quite a while. Any ideas? -- Nova77 11:22, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: References to "Dictator Allawi" and Phil Gingrey as torturers are the POV additions of a user who repeatedly vandalises this page. He refuses to discuss any of these on the talk page anymore. See Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/66.20.28.01_and_other_accounts for more info. Kyz 16:40, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dictator Allawi? 

message: I think it would be very good (informative) to introduce at least a link to the MK-ULTRA project in the article. It was a medical torture project carried out in the post-WW2 world in a country considered to be most civilised.
:A more general section could be on the medical supervision of the administration of "Truth drugs", which appear to have been part of the MK-ULTRA research. === Vernon White (talk) 20:26, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MK-ULTRA 

message: How is medical torture different than the misuse of psychiatry and other forms of medicine? Examples of this would be Soviet era attempts to 'cure' political dissidents, or the many psychiatric abuses carried out GLBT people or the practice, widely known about in my childhood, of 'putting people away' - committing inconvenient and powerless members of one's family to a psychiatric facility.
Similarly, there are documented cases of persons who received lobotomies because they were hated by their guardian, or who received electroshock therapy because they reported that they had been raped by medical staff.
So what makes torture 'medical'?  Is it because a doctor is involved? Is it because the torture is covered by by wrapping it in the trope of medicine?  Is it because the torture was a consequence of the power imbalance in much of medicine, especially psychiatry? Is it because the method of torture used paraphernalia and methods associated with medicine (and in that sense is execution by lethal injection 'medical' in a way that the noose is not?).
- anniepoo
As defined in this article, medical torture is torture for political purposes using the medical establishement or medical personnel. From most perspectives it is clearly distinguishable from abusive treatment of patients by medical personnel for dishonorable motives, or treatment that is carried out for honorable motives but perceived as abusive by the patient. The Soviet use of forced psychiatric treatment of political dissidents fits this definition and article, while forced psychiatric treatment of deviant sexual behavior does not because it was intended for the benefit of the patient, no mater how unjustifiable or barbaric the methods and understanding seem to us now. alteripse 05:11, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misuse of Medicine 

message: I have only browsed through the report, but I don't see any specific allegations of medical torture; on the contrary, it seems like all the doctors involved are working with HRW.  If there is a specific allegation, can someone highlight it?  And if not, let's cut.  00:16, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: HRW Report

message: Interested that the documented instances all took place in Nazi or Communist countries - or dictatorships like Saddam's Iraq. And the "allegations" are all against democratic countries.
One would think that with the press freedom and ease of private communication in democractic societies it would be much easier to find evidence of complicity, if it's really taking place. I sense a one-sided attempt to push moral equivalence here. --Uncle Ed 01:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Totalitarianism and democracy

message: :However, the American Psychological Association has not recognized that psychologists were involved in the Bush Administration’s torture policy. Some criticize the APA for failing to respond to allegations of “collusion between APA officials and the national security apparatus in providing ethical cover for psychologists’ participation in detainee abuse."
Didn't they finally recognize it after the Senate torture report was released? Viriditas (talk) 08:33, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outdated? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Medical torture. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20041010082341/http://www.q.co.za:80/news/2000/07/000728-sexchange1.htm to http://www.q.co.za/news/2000/07/000728-sexchange1.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071029120713/http://ohsr.od.nih.gov:80/guidelines/nuremberg.html to http://ohsr.od.nih.gov/guidelines/nuremberg.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:47, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 11 external links on Medical torture. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090430115229/http://www.aiipowmia.com/731/731caveat.html to http://www.aiipowmia.com/731/731caveat.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090704035404/http://psychoanalystsopposewar.org/blog/2009/06/29/open-letter-in-response-to-the-american-psychological-association-board/ to http://psychoanalystsopposewar.org/blog/2009/06/29/open-letter-in-response-to-the-american-psychological-association-board/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090429200942/http://armed-services.senate.gov/Publications/Detainee%20Report%20Final_April%2022%202009.pdf to http://armed-services.senate.gov/Publications/Detainee%20Report%20Final_April%2022%202009.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20041012085104/http://slate.msn.com/id/2105332/ to http://slate.msn.com/id/2105332/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050104205842/http://www.mask.org.za/sections/AfricaPerCountry/southafrica/aversion.pdf to http://www.mask.org.za/sections/AfricaPerCountry/southafrica/aversion.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040819114157/http://www.gala.wits.ac.za/archives_a.htm to http://www.gala.wits.ac.za/archives_a.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.q.co.za/news/2000/07/000728-sexchange1.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090611145758/http://www.yale.edu/gsp/publications/slaughter.html to http://www.yale.edu/gsp/publications/slaughter.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080920142540/http://www.wma.net/e/policy/c8.htm to http://www.wma.net/e/policy/c8.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://ohsr.od.nih.gov/guidelines/nuremberg.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090722094853/http://www.wma.net/e/about/index.htm to http://www.wma.net/e/about/index.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:45, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Perhaps the ideas of psychiatrist Thomas Szasz should be included here. Is psychiatric coercion, force, and confinement not a form of medical torture? Are you aware of the psychiatric survivor movement? According to psychiatrist Thomas Szasz, "Psychiatric coercion is medicalized terrorism.". Perhaps something about non-consensual psychiatric can be included here. Michael Ten (talk) 05:07, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is psychiatric coercion medicalized terrorism, and thereby medical torture?   

message: I believe that there should be a distinct line drawn between verified medical torture and inhumane experimentation, such as that conducted by Axis states during World War II, and allegations that remain without solid evidence and are unverified. Furthermore, I would like to state that this accusation against Israel should be removed:
"In 2016, a group consisting of 71 British medical doctors urged that Israel's membership in the World Medical Association should be revoked because Israeli doctors allegedly perform state-endorsed "medical torture" on Palestinians."
Although it could be theoretically included in the article, the lack of evidence to support the claim of the British doctors that prisoners were force-fed in question should be given due consideration when it is put into the same category as proven and factually verified instances of fascist human experimentation and medical torture on the lines of Nazi, Imperial Japanese, and Apartheid-regime offenses. If it is included, it should be made more clear that the accusation lacks evidence (with none provided by the source, only a report of the instance occurring), and in response I link the following articles:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-medical-body-rejects-claims-israel-should-be-expelled/
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/world-medical-body-rejects-claims-israelis-should-be-expelled-1.5397622
This article dictates that the authority in charge of investigating and judging Israel on this account has ultimately concluded that the charges raised against it were false. I personally believe this to be grounds for removal from the list of "Asserted instances" where it is alongside verified incidents. Not only were they cleared of charges, but the next year, an Israeli doctor would come to lead the organization entirely.
From the same source as the original comment quoted above:
http://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-doctor-elected-head-of-World-Medical-Association-507585
In my admittedly brief research, the only source I could find particularly accusing Israel of medical torture was Electronic Intifada, which did not seem to cite any sources of its own. I'd imagine propaganda outlets would be likely sources as well, but these would for obvious reasons be unreliable. I am not certain on Wikipedia's official stance on Electronic Intifada, as the page on it is very lacking in critical views,  but it is my belief that it should not be used as the main source for most particular things due to a generally acknowledged strong bias and seeming lack of particular regulation of its content. Furthermore, it has been associated with organizations and movements that were deemed discriminatory on several occasions: February of 2015 in the United States (BDS), from April to December of 2015 the states of Tennessee, Illinois, South Carolina, California, and Florida all passed laws with this in mind (BDS), in 2015 and 2016 the state of Indiana doubly reinforced the stance that BDS was discriminatory and a type of hate, in 2016 the state of New York banned corporate participation and cooperation with BDS-affiliated groups, in 2016 the state of Alabama denounced the BDS movement with consideration to Jewish (not necessarily Israeli) citizens and cemented it as an antisemitic organization, in 2016 Colorado likewise restricted government entities from affiliation with BDS, Indiana attempted to push through a similar bill but has not yet seen success in finalizing...
There is an extensive list of anti-BDS measures that near universally declare the movement discriminatory in nature, ranging from Washington to Georgia, from California to Alabama, from New York to Texas, all in agreement with the federal government. This is grounds, I believe, to consider BDS a controversial and biased movement and, in turn, to consider Electronic Intifada as a very strong proponent to be a necessarily biased and unreliable source when brought to contention with the ruling of the World Medical Association.
With this all in mind, I would like to summarize my point: the accusation raised against Israel seems to have been sufficiently cleared by the authority in power whose task was to sort the details and draw a conclusion. The only resource I can find which continues to dispute this should not be considered an effective main/primary source of information without corroboration. For this reason, the continued lingering of the statement present is unwarranted, and its remaining presence or readdition (I have not paid particular attention to the editing history) may be simply due to political reasons on the part of the editor responsible. I cannot confirm this, and it is mere speculation, for at the very least the specific text indicates that it was an allegation rather than a fact, and it may have been a good-faith attempt at providing more modern examples. Upon the very brief review of editing history I have seen so far, though, I hope my concern is understood given the seeming issue regarding the status of withholding treatment.
Thank you for your consideration.
173.62.185.200 (talk) 05:11, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allegations and rumors