Talk:Bernard Manning

message: I specifically recall Manning stating he was a racist in this show, therefore Manning should be described as such in the article. I will try and track down a copy of the interview but for now I will continue to revert to my edit.
was there some random editing by a manning fan in this section? it claims that 'few' people thought he came out second best in the interview, whilst the reference (BBC obit) says just the opposite: it was only manning that believed he 'floored' aherne with this admittance- most did see him as poor second best. so whoever it was- if you are going to lie, dont  cite sources which contradict you!Jackc5755 (talk) 21:13, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just saw part one of three of this interview, and said he wasn't racist. So if he says he is in other two parts will let you know, but first part when asked he said no.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.154.136.252 (talk) 21:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Part two he does say that when he leaves he'll still be a racist, though to be honest was after he was asked repeatedley when he was going to stop the racist jokes in his act. And no one seemed flooered at all, and also didn't seem to be an Oprah type admittance and more I'm still telling racist jokes.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.154.136.252 (talk) 21:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Part three, was asked again if he was racist, said no twice, then asked if he'd of picked up hitchhikers if they were black said they'd still be standing beside road. all in all nothing approaching admittance to racism, other then his constant racism within his act. Much ado about nothing. Can't see saying he was in fact racist from this show, especially in face of documented feelings of his Indian neighbhors. 69.154.136.252 (talk) 21:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mrs Merton Show 

message: Part of this section seems to have been entered in a biased and informal way. I would suggest more comments about the perceived racism of Manning's humour, and reforming the arguments against perceived racism into a formal style. Ggareth77 18:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: well, the article was originally biased against manning's sense of humour (with an unnecessary mention of it in the intro paragraph) and then the 'style of humour' section was edited to be biased towards it; both look wrong + what it needs is relevant commentary (e.g. notable fans of manning and what they say about him, vs critics of manning and what those people say about him) - not just people automatically responding to the parts they disagree with. KZF 19:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The fact that you can't remember it doesn't mean someone made it up. However, it shouldn't be in the article if it isn't cited. KZF 14:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV Dispute: Style of humour 

message: Manning's number-plate was "BJM1" , so I'm assuming he had a "J___" middle name. Anybody know what it was and/or have a source? Jhamez84 23:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Middle name 

message: "Manning was a great believer in family values, who never swore in front of his mother" Should be "...values, and claimed that he never swore in front of his mother"
Theres a link / citation there too, that goes here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/3867363.stm
Problem is that rather a lot from that BBC page has somehow found its way into the article. Is this right? 
Incidentally, I wouldn't presume to edit an article. Not in the gang.
:Anybody can contribute to Wikipedia - it is open source and written collaboratively by volunteers - no "gangs" exist, nor are any personal credentials or details sought from contributors. However due to constant vandalism, this particular article is temporarily locked so only registered editors can contribute to it.
:Also, citing published and reliable sources (such as the BBC article you mention) is wholly encouraged by Wikipedia, so that it's content is verifiable and backed up by reliable sources, and thus not written according to a specfic biased point of view. 
:Your point about Mannings family values is a valid one however. Hope that helps, Jhamez84 00:47, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The trouble is that this article's "Style" section just rips off the BBC obituary article shamelessly. Tompagenet 10:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Style" section needs more style 

message: Knew about citing sources, my main point was that (if you check the BBC article) I felt that the Wikipedia article owes too much to the BBC article. When I said "Is this right?" I was being sarky. Unless its OK to just copy and paste whole sections of an article from elsewhere. There I go again. My other point was not specifically about this article, but more broadly I have just felt recently that Wikipedia (regardless of policy) is getting a little clubby, and it often seems that strangers are unwelcome. Not you. You're OK.
::I agree. It's almost a copy and paste of the BBC article. Some serious plagiarism going on. Snowbound 06:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately I tend to agree here.  There is a strong similarity between the wording of the BBC's coverage of Manning's death and the current Wikipedia article.  Although this may have been done unintentionally in response to a breaking news story, the article should try to look less like a copy and paste job.  Still, at least it cannot be accused of being taken from an unreliable source.--Ianmacm 07:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed here.  It's not cool to copy whole sections from the BBC website and only change a few words here and there.  If this isn't removed soon, I'll do it but it will consist of a wholesale delete of the offending material where others might be more sympathetic Docta247 07:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The article has changed considerably since these comments were originally written.  The policy exercised was Wikipedia:Plagiarism.  It's a fun read  :-) Docta247 13:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism? 

message: I think that this quote is completely out of context. It's being used to show that a noteable black person liked him. The quote itself was in scathing criticism of Tony Blair, saying that he had nothing in common with Manning and less with Blair. This quote has been taken completely out of context.
:How does that work then? Darcus states quite clearly that he liked him. cheers Vera, Chuck & Dave 15:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't taken out of context (as VC&D just said, Darcus makes it obvious that he likes Manning). It's certainly relevant, but it was included in the wrong part of the article. I've tried to improve this a bit. KZF 14:53, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I could say "I would rather eat hot shit than blue cheese", but that's doesn't mean that I would like to eat hot shit. Even without reading into Howe's intention's, saying "I have more in common with this person" does not imply liking them. 90.217.104.219 (talk) 14:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darcus Howe quote 

message: When this page is no longer protected, Las Vegas needs to be disambiguated to Las Vegas, Nevada.--Dcooper 13:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: - auburnpilot talk 00:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguation 

message: "Most viewers felt that Manning came second in a television interview to Caroline Aherne's character Mrs Merton when he supposedly confirmed that he was a racist, but also in the same programme said: 'I tell jokes. You never take a joke seriously.'"
What citation is there for MOST viewers?
Even weasel phrases like "some viewers" are frowned upon in Wiki aren't they?
I felt that by answering "Yes", to her question "Are you a racist?" (which has been shown again and again recently on TV) he took the wind out of her sails, but that is opinion not fact
chrisboote 18:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Most viewers is cited - read it. Vera, Chuck & Dave 16:18, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanx for the citation, but having worked at the Beeb, I would hesitate before taking that source as authoritative - especially relating to a BBC program. Still, it IS an external source, despite its likely inaccuracy, so that's good enough for a citation I guess chrisboote 15:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is a BBC lie. She tried to outwit him but failed miserably, that is the natural outcome of a great comedian versus a mediocre one. He went on to really piss her off by saying "You're Irish, we all leave the room when you do", she was not happy in defeat.Stutley (talk) 14:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  More non NPOV in main article 

message: I've tried to sort out the 'Style' section a bit - here are my changes:
*I reorganised the whole section. I thought it best to start off with information about the kind of humour he had, then what notable (well kind of) celebrities think of him, then what his friends and family say about him. I haven't added or removed anything, it was just a bit jumbled up before.
*I deleted this detail: "...having his Rolls-Royce Silver Spirit (registration plate I LAF) parked strategically outside but sitting inside in vest and Y-fronts..." - even though it's funny, it's more something an interviewer or reviewer would write. It would be nice to include it somehow, because it's relevant to his image. But I wasn't sure where to put it...
Things that I think need to be improved are:
*the Mrs Merton bit - what does it even mean, 'came second to Mrs Merton'? Why does it say 'most viewers felt that'? This needs clarifying or removing.
*i'm no expert on bernard manning, but i've been told his humour wasnt 100% 'controversial' stuff - it sounds like he used quite a bit of satire, subtle humour etc as well. This really needs to be included if so, because if this article only draws attention to the controversial aspects of his jokes without mentioning the more widely acceptable parts, then it's very biased. KZF 15:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style section 

message: I removed the links to youtube because of this;
Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry). Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. BigDunc 12:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: "I dragged myself up by my bootlaces. I don't drink or smoke, I don't take drugs. I have never been a womaniser. I was brought up right with good parents and I have never been in trouble or harmed no-one. And I love my family."
Yet on the top of the page the picture clearly shows Manning, cigarette in hand only a couple of years before his death. Also he only become teetotal on doctors advice/orders because of his kidney trouble. Can we find a source for this quote? --EchetusXe (talk) 14:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The photo at  comes from his performance on 29 May 2005, which can be seen in video form at . I took this photograph and video, and can recall Bernard Manning asking a person in the audience to give him a cigarette for a few moments. During the performance, Manning said "If you want to smoke, smoke, if you want to drink, drink." Whether Manning was a regular smoker or drinker is hard to say.  It may just have been a part of his act. --♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:50, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh right, thnx for the info. Nevermind then.EchetusXe (talk) 15:52, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  i was wondering about that, should there somewhere be a disclaimer to that effect, or perhaps more research into it, as the photograph and the quote can be seen as contradictory. --81.23.56.12 (talk) 21:44, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

text: This would require a source in line with WP:V.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:27, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

text: The issue here is the standard one of verifiability, not truth. A statement like this would need a source, even if the quote from the BBC article is inaccurate.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote 

message: Can someone define what is the era of political correctness?  When it did start?  Has it ended?  Can you please define "political correctness"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.193.207.246 (talk) 04:28, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is mentioned in the article and is sourced to the BBC obituary  which uses a similar phrase. Political correctness is wikilinked, and the era of PC is generally reckoned to have started in the 1980s when alternative comedians like Ben Elton derided Manning as a dinosaur.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:05, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Era of "political correctness"? 

message: "In 2006, he made Madonna laugh at the 40th birthday party of chef Marco Pierre White."
Why does this information need to be there? It's fucking pathetic.
:This is sourced in the article at . I'm not sure that it is "fucking pathetic", but if anyone dislikes it then it can be edited or removed.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  What? 

message: Who is Alwyn W Turner? He has a website at , but does not appear to be a mainstream journalist or academic. Wikipedia articles are not exercises in commentary or analysis, and should stick to factual material as far as possible.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:13, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alwyn W Turner 

message: I agree with the WP:LEAD comment above.  The lead is not the place to add new material.  Also, as stated by January above, we should not include our comments on a video.  We need a commentary by someone else. Martin Hogbin (talk) 13:06, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree with this. The lead - as with any part of any article - is the place to add new material. No idea why you suggest otherwise? Is there a wiki rule which supports your statement: "do not add new material to the lead"? If so, please show me that rule - because I have often done just that. AiFWww (talk) 11:33, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:LEAD is the relevant guideline. January (talk) 12:15, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

text: Yes, here is a quote from the guideline, 'The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article'.  Martin Hogbin (talk) 20:16, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments from an uninvolved editor

message: I read with interest the basic facts regarding Bernard Manning. Unfortunately, there appears to be nowhere where one could add their experience's with the Great Man?
He touched so many with his Humour, & i say that with the best of intentions! I saw him many ,many times over the years, & i never thought of him as "rascist"? He spoke the language that was spoken on the Street! A perfect Gentleman in ALL respects he never promoted his many Charity Commitments that he peformed over the years.He just wasn't that kind of person who would do anything for fame! No he was a proper "Manc" loved by many!
Steve Winder  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.96.53.70 (talk) 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bernard manning a Local Hero? 

message: We carry his claim to be a teetotal non-smoker, but the photo illustrating him shows him with a cigarette. This seems suboptimal. --John (talk) 19:13, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I took this photo. Someone in the audience handed him a cigarette. I have got a video of this somewhere.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:19, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smoker? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Manning was 15 at the end of WW2. Were there 16/17 year-olds guarding German prisoners ?Pamour (talk) 15:57, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This comes from Manning's self-penned obituary  in which he writes "I was one of the armed guards watching over the Nazi hierarchy locked up in Spandau prison. For a 16-year-old, it was a bizarre experience, standing over the likes of Rudolf Hess and Albert Speer with a Bren gun." I agree it's a bit odd, but that's what he says.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:20, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prison guard at Spandau 

message: This article hints at the controversy surrounding Manning's act, but it seems that unless you are already familar with him, a reader of this article would still be unclear as to what it entailed. The two most egrarious examples are the that lede says the controversy led to him not appearing on TV. However, 'controversy' is an almost contentless word. It should be replaced with a clearer explanation of what part of his act led to him not appearing on TV (with cites of course). Also this line appears in the article: ' playing to packed audiences which he claimed sometimes included people from ethnic minorities.' But nowhere in the article does it explain why ethnic minorities in the audience is notable. At this point it is all either insinuation, or only of interest to readers who basically already know the whole story. I understand characterising offense is difficult and by definition, subjective, so we should find reliable sources for all the statements about how his act has been interpreted and received. Ashmoo (talk) 11:17, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of this can be sourced to his BBC obituary. Manning was pretty much shunned from television after tastes changed in the 1980s, but he was not particularly worried because he had so much work from his live shows.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 11:28, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Nature of controversy

message: Hello, .
I think that the confusion here lies between two different BBC articles.
You mentioned this one in your reversion of my edit at 07:57 on 24 January 2022.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6765093.stm 
However, that is not the one that I used for my edits. I used this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/3867363.stm
This is the one defined as "BBCobit" in the text.
The current wording of the article is favourable to Manning in not mentioning that the case where two Black waitresses won damages from a Derbyshire hotel was based on hearing his use of the word "wog". His claim that he never used the word in his life is in reference to that case, but that is not made clear in the current article. As he lost the case, it seems as if he might not have been entirely candid. This is why I tweaked that paragraph to make clear that Manning denied having used the word "wog" after those two Black waitresses in Derbyshire said that they'd heard him say "wog".
Here is the relevant section of the BBCobit reference that I used.
:He was furious when two black waitresses, who won damages from a Derby hotel because it failed to shield them from Manning's invective at a Round Table dinner, accused him of calling them "wogs".
:"It's a horrible, insulting word I've never used in my life," he complained, while maintaining that "niggers" and "coons" were historical terms with respectable roots.
There is then the time when he admitted to being a racist on The Mrs Merton Show. This was a new addition and it is needed to represent a neutral point of view on Wikipedia. Here is the justifying part from the BBCobit reference:
:On Mrs Merton's television show, Bernard Manning supposedly floored Caroline Aherne's alias by confirming that he was a racist.
:At least, that was his version, although most viewers felt he emerged a poor second-best from the confrontation.
Although I know that YouTube videos are seldom used as references on Wikipedia, you can see this exchange at the mark here (the video should be time-stamped at 6:30). He even tried to justify his racism by saying, "these people think they're English because they're born here. That means that, if a dog's born in the stable, it's a horse." I don't think that there can be any good reason to exclude this part from the article. Indeed, I think that excluding it would violate Wikipedia's policy on a neutral point of view by being favourable to Manning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0ESNN03YwE&t=390
I hope that my edits can be restored now.
Epa101 (talk) 20:30, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Manning contradicts himself in the Mrs Merton interview. He says at 6:30 that he is racist, then at 7:30 he says "Well, I'm not really racist, I tell jokes about everything."--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 13:59, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that is true. The bulk of his comments throughout the programme seem to be on the side of admitting that he's a racist. If I use the BBCobit rather than the YouTube video, are you happy for my previous edits to be restored?  Epa101 (talk) 13:49, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  BBC obituary