Talk:National Socialist Movement (United States)

message: I have deleted this article. It did not comply with our policy on the biographies of living persons. It also breached neutrality and reliable sourcing. As much as editors may not like these people, we are not a forum for politically motivated investigative journalism or exposes. 
Biographical material must always be referenced from reliable sources, especially negative material. Negative material that does not comply with that must be immediately removed. Note that the removal does not imply that the information is either true or false.
Please feel free to rebuild the article, using only reliable citations, and ensuring it is written in a neutral tone. Please review the relevant policies before editing in this regard. Editors should note that failure to follow this policy may result in the removal of editing privileges.--Docg 23:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Care to provide a citation so that others can weigh the evidence, Anonymous?  I am no fan of the NSM, but without providing evidence, your comment reads more like a drive-by insult than an effort to expand the article. Historymike (talk) 13:11, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: BLP & NPOV

message: The article on French Wikipedia has been expanded, and they've come up with this emblem (I have no idea how accurate): :File:Blason du National Socialist Movement usa.svg -- AnonMoos (talk) 23:28, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on footage in an ABC evening news report on 5/11/11, :File:Drapeaux National Socialist Movement.svg is accurate, and I'll add it to the article... AnonMoos (talk) 22:51, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The flag was constantly visible in the 60 Minutes piece last week, and the coat of arms was seen once or twice... AnonMoos (talk) 14:16, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: French Wikipedia

message: Jeff Hall use to be leading light in the Movement until his death by his son on 1st May 2011, he was 32 and the son 10.http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/us/11nazi.html?_r=1  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.31.188.92 (talk) 16:02, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There was an interesting TV story about this on 60 Minutes last week...  -- AnonMoos (talk) 14:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jeff Hall 

message: Anti-porn filter objects to swastikas being used in the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.109.2.24 (talk) 16:40, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the official logo of the organization which is the topic of this article includes a swastika, so there's not much which can be done about that from our end... AnonMoos (talk) 14:18, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-porn Filter 

message: I found a free parade image here but I'm having trouble uploading it. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 16:12, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Free image 

message: :"The National Socialist Movement (NSM) is a white civil rights party..."
What exactly is this supposed to mean?  It sounds euphemistic and (deliberately?) misleading.  Why does the lede not state that "The National Socialist Movement (NSM) is a white supremacist organisation promoting a racialist ideology" or something similar, which would seem to be a direct statement of factual truth?  A civil rights party?  What a joke!  A civil rights party with a swastika on its flag?  That first line may possibly just be the single most non-neutral statement I have ever seen on Wikipedia.    Heavenlyblue (talk) 23:29, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted the article to the version of "10:44, 29 July 2013", but it's been a common rhetorical maneuver since the 1970s for such groups to claim to be "white civil rights" supporters (Tom Metzger met with Farrakhan in 1985, etc. etc.)... AnonMoos (talk) 00:45, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "is a white civil rights party" 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on National Socialist Movement (United States). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.nsm88.org/25points/25pointsengl.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100130205320/http://www.columbiamissourian.com:80/stories/2009/01/22/national-socialist-unit-adopts-missouri-highway-section/ to http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2009/01/22/national-socialist-unit-adopts-missouri-highway-section/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Isn't the National Socialist Movement (NSM) more Far-left because of the socialist aspect?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.41.146.109 (talk) 23:42, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No for a few reasons. First if you read the article on Far-right politics you'll notice that it references "neo-Nazism, fascism, neo-fascism and other ideologies or organizations that feature extreme nationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, racist, or reactionary views," including Right-wing socialism. Second, Far-left politics is usually reserved for populist socialist, democratic socialists, communists, and anarchists. If you look at the article we have on Left-wing politics you will see that the left "supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality," which is the opposite of the NSM. Finally, we have two reliable sources calling the group far-right, so that is what is listed. Alexander Levian (talk) 00:55, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Far-left Then Far-right 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :National Socialist Movement (United States)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "HeimWaPo":
From Alt-right: Heim, Joe; Silverman, Ellie; Shapiro, T. Rees; & Brown, Emma (August 12, 2017) "One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering in Charlottesville; two police die in helicopter crash", The Washington Post
From Unite the Right rally: Joe Heim, Ellie Silverman, T. Rees Shapiro & Emma Brown (August 12, 2017), "One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering in Charlottesville; two police die in helicopter crash" , The Washington Post.
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 05:45, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:National Socialist Movement (United States)]] 

message: See Traditionalist Worker Party for more about him. He's been hired to put an acceptable face on the NSM.. Doug Weller talk 20:30, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matthew Heimbach 

message: I did major cleanup of the page to arrange it in a more coherent flow. The filings to the State changing ownership are public records. They are PDF's. 1 is one page. I wonder if it would be appropriate to include it as an image? Just a thought if appropriate and someone wants to do it. The links to those two pdf refs could use some cleanup but my Parkinson's just won't cooperate enough for me to do it. P37307 (talk) 02:07, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for cleaning up my cleanup of National Socialist Movement (United States), esp renaming the History section. Not sure why I didn't think of that title. All that history stuff was in the main paragraph before and it was a long read so I gave it a shot. The bottom "Change of leadership" section, I think the part about Stern filing a lawsuit should be at the bottom of the Lawsuit section. It's just hanging down there out of place. Since the main paragraph already states Sterns took over the group I didn't feel when I changed it that it would be ill moved. I still wonder if Schoep's personal Twitter account suspension belongs in the page now. Thoughts? P37307 (talk) 07:12, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved the finally graf up -- how's that?  I think the Twitter thing was significant at the time, indicative of a crackdown on NSM by social media services, and should probably stay in as a historical event. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:21, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Black activist James Hart Stern says he will work to undermine the National Socialist Movement, the group he now leads to dismantle the party.-Signed by Samiwikia  08:08, 13 December 2020 Samiwikia
:That happened over a year and a half ago.  James Hart Stern has been dead for over a year now, according to his article. AnonMoos (talk) 12:27, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The new leader of NSM is black who intended to dismantle (Heard on news) 

message: See  - among other things interview with Schoep. Doug Weller talk 12:43, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  From memes to race war: How extremists use popular culture to lure recruits 

message: It's National SOCIALIST. Socialists are left, capitalists are right. They are a left-wing extremist group  -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:5B0:46E4:B378:2086:A43C:B3D6:898D (talk) 14:28, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You can keep saying it as much as you want; it's still not true. News flash: the People's Democratic Republic of Korea (i.e., North Korea) is neither of the people, nor democratic, nor a republic. --Orange Mike | Talk 18:27, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Voltaire said it first -- the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.  (The All-Palestine Government is a more recent similar example of zero for three, while the DPRK is at least Korean.) AnonMoos (talk) 10:20, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

text: The "NSDAP" had various tendencies when it was founded, but after Otto Strasser was expelled from the party, there was very little remaining in it which could meaningfully validly be called "socialist".  Certainly in the early 1930s, a number of businessmen supported the party for the purpose of destroying Communism in Germany... AnonMoos (talk) 03:14, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It is also well documented that Hitler himself was an agent of the most reactionary elements of the Reichswehr, sent in to infiltrate and influence what was then the anti-Semitic, nationalist, anti-capitalist, and anti-Marxist German Workers Party (DAP), which he dragged steadily to the right. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:23, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Actually, the "Juche" idea replaced traditional communism as North Korea's guiding ideology many years ago, while more recently "Songun" (military first) is rivalling Juche.  It's very difficult to see how North Korea is "left-wing" these days, except for a few residual symbols (red star in national flag, hammer and sickle in the party emblem and flag). AnonMoos (talk) 02:51, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  It's far left, not far right 

message: Mahatma Gandhi was a nationalist socialist... Would you consider him on the right too? Don't delete my post or I will post every hour 2603:8001:6900:1C00:B8C7:4990:B356:33A6 (talk) 18:01, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The "NSDAP" had various tendencies when it was founded, but after Otto Strasser was expelled from the party, there was very little remaining in it which could meaningfully validly be called "socialist".  Certainly in the early 1930s, a number of businessmen supported the party for the purpose of destroying Communism in Germany... AnonMoos (talk) 03:14, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It is also well documented that Hitler himself was an agent of the most reactionary elements of the Reichswehr, sent in to infiltrate and influence what was then the anti-Semitic, nationalist, anti-capitalist, and anti-Marxist German Workers Party (DAP), which he dragged steadily to the right. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:23, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Socialism is always on the left 

message: North Korea says it is democratic, it is? Just because they say they are socialist does not mean they are, we need wp:RS to say they are left-wing. Slatersteven (talk) 16:40, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the "Juche" idea replaced traditional communism as North Korea's guiding ideology many years ago, while more recently "Songun" (military first) is rivalling Juche.  It's very difficult to see how North Korea is "left-wing" these days, except for a few residual symbols (red star in national flag, hammer and sickle in the party emblem and flag). AnonMoos (talk) 02:51, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: NK

message: Alot has happened since the last time this article really got updated that I feel like hasn't been mentioned.
The NSM had a rally in Detroit that made international attention (pride protest in 2019). From what I can tell Colucci's case against the black man in Arizona is still ongoing, and he picked up another case after beating up a Jewish guy in Florida (although he claims it was to defend one of his members). Lastly, they had a rally in Lakeland in June 2023 which only attracted about 4 people (although Colucci was expecting around 100). Also, the Nationalist Front is dead and so is the NSM for the most part: I can't tell what the exact number of members is, but it seems to be in the single digits today. RebeccaBoko (talk) 09:22, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updates and events