Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 19

message: Though I'm not completely for or against AMIB's proposals, please remember not to change the templates until some sort of consensus is reached among editors (such as with a straw poll) to prevent any edit wars. After all, this is still a proposal and not yet a guideline. Also, wouldn't Wikipedia talk:Navigational templates be a better place to discuss this, since this topic applies to all navigational boxes?--TBCΦtalk? 18:07, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it would be. I'll go do that now. JQF 18:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't like the idea that there are "sides" to this issue. The more I think about it the more I understand AMIB's rational. This is a discussion, and we shouldn't be so quick to take "sides". Rather, we should push forward and take the good and throw out the bad. I've reverted those templates back to the ones introduced by AMIB.  We can improve on these templates, but we need to more forward, not backwards. -- Ned Scott 05:44, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let me clarify: I'm not saying that we should "take sides", I simply think we should improve on and discuss AMIB's template guidelines first before actually implementing it. This way we can avoid any edit wars or incivility among users.--TBCΦtalk? 05:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do think your suggestion is in good faith, but it does make an "idea vs idea" type setup. I don't think we're finished discussing the exact look of the "new" template layout, so a vote or such would be premature. I guess there isn't a major need to edit all the templates before finalization, but considering the horrible shape most of them where in, there really isn't a need to leave them be. -- Ned Scott 05:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs consenus

message: Super Mario 64 is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy (Talk) 15:50, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Super Mario 64]]

message: Is this worthy for GA class?  I just wanted to get a broad assessment before going for a peer review. Hbdragon88 03:13, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead-in and plot have no references at all. "the popular Duke Nukem series" and "It is notorious for its protracted development" are almost POV, and will definitely need references. The external links section needs to be trimmed down to 4 links at the most. I haven't really read it, but the timeline section seems to be following a format of "In 2001, they did this. [new paragraph]. In 2002, they did this". Don't take my opinion as crucially as others, but consider the improvements.--TheEmulatorGuy 03:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks very much, your input is appreciated.  Will be working on those issues for the next few weeks. Hbdragon88 05:32, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Duke Nukem Forever]]

message: Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory.  These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages: 
*User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
*User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
*User:Badbilltucker/Science directory
and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory.
The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. 
It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:16, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now put the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 00:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project Directory 

message: This needs to be shouted from the rooftops; screenshots of software for which Ubisoft owns the copyright can be used freely, as long as we attribute them to Ubisoft. This is kosher; there's a summary here, and the permissions are listed with the Wikimedia foundation.
This means that the usual restraints on being sparing with images are not applicable to Ubisoft games, and that we can use images of Ubisoft games in much less restrictive subjects (for example, we could use a screenshot to illustrate an article on a genre, for example). If you've uploaded any screenshots of Ubisoft games, make sure to tag them with .
Please only use this template on screenshots uploaded by the person who took them; any other screenshots should be tagged with . Note that this doesn't apply to boxcovers, promo art, or other related images, which are still fair-use images and should be used sparingly. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 09:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, commons:User:Avatar/Ubisoft only applies to franchises owned by Ubisoft, not just those they publish.--TBCΦtalk? 09:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's actually what I was gonna bring up next. Puzzle Pirates was published in stores by Ubi, but is developed and owned by Three Rings Design.
I've added a note to the template to reflect this. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:53, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: If you want, and I don't think so. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 13:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So would anyone object if I added a Category:Ubisoft screenshots to the template? jaco♫plane 15:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Go right ahead. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: A screenshot can arguably rise to its own copyright claim for selection of when to take the shot, timing, placement, etc., and gamesites will often have reason to want to defend this. The reason user-created is stipulated is so people can't rip off gamesites. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 14:25, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|Ubisoft-screenshot}} 

message: I noticed the Sonic fangame articles have been put up for AfD, with a lot of consensus citing that fangames are not notable enough and should be deleted. As a result, shouldn't :Category:Fanmade computer game remakes and sequels and almost every article be put up for AfD? --tgheretford (talk) 19:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the nom for deletion states that it fails WP:SOFTWARE. Whether or not all the games in that category fail WP:SOFTWARE is subject to debate. Of course, WP:SOFTWARE, is a guideline and not policy so the only way you're going to get deletion is by clear consensus. Mass AFDs usually only go through on clear cases of mass hoaxes, spamming, etc. so I doubt trying to put all these articles up for deletion would succeed. —Mitaphane talk 19:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems very notable to me, based on the 'number of google hits' straw poll.  Have voted at the nom page. A worthy piece of software. --Oscarthecat 20:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

text: A proposed guideline WP:SOFTWARE, and not unquestioned one. Unfinished are one thing, however, for most of others a non-trivial web publication still can be found. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 17:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: If the some of the games aren't finished they would definitely fall under WP:NOT crystal ball, barring some notable outside coverage. I'd shoot for those first. —Mitaphane talk 17:50, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't see why the basic principle of fangames which are the subject of commentary in reliable sources independent of the subject itself isn't a good one. It works for pretty much everything. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 11:26, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fangame articles 

message: The problem is: Aliens don't always appear in Predator games, and vice versa. The category needs a rename, and a possible split: Alien games, Predator games and Alien vs Predator games I suppose could work. They are two seperate franchises, but have had numerous crossovers (but not all movies or games feature both Predator and Aliens).
*This also brings up the issue of this template:
As you can see, the Alien template lists Predator as well. The template probably needs to be changed, or a Predator template should be made. I see no reason why they should be clumped together, just because of numerous crossovers. They are still two seperate franchises. RobJ1981 07:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What should be done with [[:Category:Alien and Predator games]]?

message: Can someone comment at Talk:Ever17 about the plot summary I added (Ever17#Details)? (Note: it's full of spoilers, so if you plan on playing the game don't read it.) I tried to keep it short and only describe the basics of the convoluted plot. --Mercercounty 20:37, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Requesting comments

message: Does anyone know of a good source of Japanese reviews, own copies of Famitsu, or read / write the language for searching? I don't like passing FAs with rational, unaddressed objections, and this might happen twice if Raul forwards MNSG. Our CVG articles usually have very little input about Japanese criticism and reception, which is pretty important considering the market there (and that several games originate there). This is a plea for anyone who might have access to this information or some kind of Japanese Game Rankings. --Zeality 18:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese Reviews

message: List of computer and video game hoaxes: If anyone would like to, please consider contributing to the completion of this potentially good article. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:02, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video game hoaxes 

message: I've temporarily protected this page.  Everyone needs to cool down for a little bit.  And specifically, only use this talk page for the associated WikiProject and please do not use it for any divisive purposes.  Thank you.  --Cyde Weys 05:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Everyone cool down 

message: The current GCOTW is the 99th collaboration to date. That means that the next collaboration will be the 100th without interruption (well except for a short hiatus in January 2005) since Super Mario 64 was selected on October 7, 2004. I hope everyone will make an effort to nominate articles for next week and contribute so that this collaboration will be a success. We should all take a moment to applaud Thunderbrand for his consistent effort in keeping this going. jaco♫plane 05:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed! A hearty pat on the back for Thunderbrand's unending work ethic! --InShaneee 05:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, thanks! I would like to thank everyone who has helped with any GCOTW and made it the success it is. Thunderbrand 06:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  100th GCOTW 

message: Alot of the articles in the categories should be put up for AFD (in my opinion at least). There is articles just explaining certain areas. One article should have the information, not many. Pikmin has had a total of two games, and most of the areas are basically the same in each game. I thought I would mention it here, before I AFD them. The 2 Pikmin games are popular, but that doesn't justify an article for each area and/or level. RobJ1981 05:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:Pikmin]] should probably be cleaned

message: Hello, I'm Dfrg.msc, and I want to make some constructive edits to Wikipedia. It's not that I am unable to, I would just like some guidance. So, if you have any specific tasks related to this topic, please inform me on my talk page, be specific and include links and I'll help out as soon as I can. Thanks, Dfrg.msc  1 . 2 . 3 07:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any idea what level or kind of work you're looking for?  I'd imagine I could come up with something. --PresN 14:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Work 

message: Just a heads-up: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon. Thanks for reviewing if you stop by. --Zeality 15:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Stopping in again. I've addressed the first round of oppositions, but as Tony noted, I've written this thing entirely myself and could use some fresh eyes. If one of you can glance over it and copyedit here and there, it'd be appreciated. Deckiller may not have time to run through it, so help is needed. --Zeality 14:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New FAC

message: What's your opinion on it? The concept is being evaluated for featured article candidates. I like the precision, but then again, it does bloat up notes with self-references. --Zeality 17:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see anything wrong with them. They help out a lot when referencing the plot. Thunderbrand 19:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hellishly tedious to read through. However, they are probably a better option than simply having a general reference that says "The game script". --tjstrf Now on editor review! 20:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: These references can be collapsed into a single citation: cite the game itself, or cite a text dump of the game script. Besides, as I pointed out, citing the primary source (the game's text) and drawing plot-based conclusions toes the original research line. Obviously, I can understand if no secondary sources exist for VG articles, so in the end I see nothing particularly wrong with it. I just don't like citations for every_single_quote. It bloats the reference section with primary source citations. --Tristam 01:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Game quote referencing

message: Stop 'N' Swop I'd like some input from editors on what contents is appropriate, or if the article is appropriate. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My advice: merge the article with Banjo-Kazooie and weed out the speculative nonsense. --Tristam 07:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop 'N' Swop 

message: VGCharts is now being inserted into List of best-selling computer and video games, despite a consensus against it. I would like it if some members of the project would comment. Thanks. - A Link to the Past (talk) 07:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see the concensus against VGCharts, neither in the article's talk page nor in the first discussion above.  Also, in the previous discussion Polling is evil was cited, but what was left out was that surveys can be useful in some cases to determine whether there's concensus, it is even listed as one of the steps towards resolving disputes.  I believe this may be one of those cases in which a survey would be useful.  Dionyseus 09:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Voting or a "consensus" won't change anything. The charts fail WP:V, a required policy. -- Ned Scott 10:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I should say that better, a consensus here cannot over-ride WP:V. Although, I doubt the charts would even gain support in the first place, in light of what was brought up. -- Ned Scott 10:11, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How does the chart fail WP:V ?  In the first discussion ReyBrujo made a good argument that VGCharts might actually qualify as a reliable source, but no one replied to it.   Dionyseus 10:17, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They disclose their own flaws on http://www.vgcharts.org/welcome.php for starters. Note that WP:V says "The obligation to provide a reliable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it." So even if the question was raised, the fact that we haven't established it as a reliable source means we shouldn't include it until we can. -- Ned Scott 10:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I have already made my comments as Dionyseus said. One way to easily determine if VGCharts is a reliable site is to see if other reliable sites use it as reference. We can say it is a necessary but not sufficient condition for notability. -- ReyBrujo 13:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: (kicking back indent) - One problem is that we cannot tell if VGCharts uses consignment data or actual sales data. If they use consignment data, it's not a valid indicator of sales, since units shipped on consignment are not actually sold. (I cannot access the VGCharts site from work. GG proxy server.) Torinir ( Ding my phone My support calls E-Support Options ) 22:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  VGCharts (2) 

message: For whatever reason, the next-gen consoles are rated low in importance. Common sense should tell anyone that these articles are the very most important articles to include in WP:1.0. These relatively obscure games are mid and top-rated, while the Wii and PS3 are low. Xbox 360 is mid. These articles should be at least high-rated, they aren't some random bleemcast.
See :Category:Low-importance computer and video game articles Scepia 18:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say all of these console should be of "mid" priority. They are important to video gaming, but right now 2 of them haven't been released. History is an important factor to consider here. The NES(as well as Nintendo) I would categorize as "high" as it turned around the market for gaming consoles after the crash. The Wii, might revolutionize gaming, or the PS3 might revolutionize home entertainment but until the consoles and the games are out there it's anyone's guess. —Mitaphane talk 19:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, anything can be expected. Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day! is considered of low importance while Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King is considered of high importance, even though Brain Age has been given more press worldwide, been featured in countless notable TV programs, has sold two or three times more than Dragon Quest, and has won international awards. -- ReyBrujo 22:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Recently, many articles have been rated purely by sales data without taking other aspects into consideration, such as impact and history. It's all a bit whimsical at the moment. Combination 00:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dragon Quest VIII is one of the best selling DQ games in Japan, behind III and VII. Additionally, I think it's one of the few, if not the only DQ game to be released in Japan. It sold >3.5 million in Japan, and possibly more than 1 million in Europe (it was 600k several months ago), and possibly >600k in North America, thanks to the price drop. That's 5.1 million at least - Brain Age has only sold less than 5 million, let alone three times as much as DQVIII. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that's just silly. DQ should be mid or low, and Brain Age should be mid. The latter is actually known by lots and lots of people. Scepia 00:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh, what? DQ is a VERY well-known game. At what point is the first RPG ever not of high importance? - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it is famous. Nevermind that. The problem I have is that these no-name games that only have a claim to fame due to their innovation are rated higher than famous title like Brain Age. The interest for a notable title for a notable console is so much more than the interest for a forgotten title that did something interesting at the time. It's all about what's now. Scepia 00:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed with ReyBrujo. The first Dragon Quest certainly wasn't the first console role-playing game. That honor would probably go to AD&D: Treasures of Tarmin or Dragonstomper (aka Excalibur). Then again, we're not even discussing the original Dragon Quest. We're talking about a recent game that's not the first (or second) best-selling game in the series, but the third. --Tristam 00:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video game consoles are top-importance articles, no? 

message: Hi video game geeks. I assume you know what Splinter Cell is. There's a merge needed between the Sarah Fisher (Splinter Cell) and Sarah Burns (Splinter Cell) articles. I also assume you'll know better than me which is the preferred name. --Dangherous 14:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. I moved into Sara Fisher since both articles refered to her as such. Also you might want to read WP:WAF. —Mitaphane talk 00:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Sarah Fisher (Splinter Cell)]] and [[Sarah Burns (Splinter Cell)]] 

message: This has been mentioned before, and I think it's time to mention it again. As of now there is 3073 unassessed articles still (plus all the untagged video games of course). The number goes down very little each day. I do some each day, but I shouldn't be the only one assessing. Anyone care to do a few each day?  I think a goal of 100 articles total (or more) each day isn't a big thing to ask. 10 people doing 10 each = 100, no problem in my opinion. RobJ1981 00:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just finished tagging all WP:PARA's unassessed articles. I'll try to get a start here. --InShaneee 00:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, for editors that can use the AWB, you can use Kingbotk's plugin to automate the assessment proccess. This speeds up the tedium much. —Mitaphane talk 08:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:Unassessed computer and video game articles]] needs alot of help

message: The article is almost all lists (pretty bad ones for the most part). Someone that has played the game needs to go through the article and help clean it up. The character list is huge: not all of them can be that notable. Remember, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a game guide. It's not important to list each and every character in the game, just the important ones. The plot and gameplay could also be expanded a bit. I've done some work on the article already, but I've never played the game so I can't determine which characters need to stay or go. RobJ1981 05:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've played through the game and when I have some free time I'll also help with the clean-up.  You are right in saying that not all characters are notable.  The "Little kids" section can go entirely.  They have no relevance to the plot.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 09:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Bully (video game)]] is in need of serious cleanup

message: I have started a proposal for a policy/guideline for what would be considered breaking WP:NOT and not, seeing as this has been an increasing problem with many gaming articles the past months. Any and all help much appreciated. Havok (T/C/c) 09:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of this is already covered on the main page of this project. Andre (talk) 01:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Game guide]] 

message: I've been in an argument on this page for quite a few days and I don't feel I'm getting anywhere. Basically I want to remove the "list of stages" section from the article, but another user demands it be left in. I see listing stages as analogous to listing chapters in a book, and as trivial article fluff. Is there any official word on this? --Wafulz 17:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know of anything for or against stages. I looked at the project page for anything, but didn't see it. In my opinion, stages/levels shouldn't be listed. It makes the article look bad, and look like a game guide. A video game article should be about gameplay, plot, characters and what reception the game got, etc. RobJ1981 18:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I went by the fact that it doesn't add anything, and none of the good/featured articles mention stages at all and would probably have them removed as a largely purposeless list. --Wafulz 18:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Listing stages

message: OK, so I have to say that the Portal:Current events/Video gaming page is not exactly being updated much for the moment. I've put it on hold for a while until I have more time, very busy with school at the moment. It would be nice if people from this WikiProject could update Portal:Current events/Video gaming/In the news once in a while though, only with major events. With the release of the PS3 and the Wii soon that shouldn't be a problem. That In the news template is also transcluded in Portal:Computer and video games so it has a high visibility. Thanks in advance, jaco♫plane 18:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If someone does want to make the effort in the meantime to update the current events page, it is necessary to create articles like Portal:Current events/Video gaming/2006 October 12 for the new days (can we get a bot to do this? Manually creating all these day articles is kind of a bitch!!! If anyone knows a solution for this they're my hero), just make sure to update the following line with the correct date when pasting: . If there are any questions please let me know here. For the most part the current events page is copied from Portal:Current events so the procedures are similar to that page. jaco♫plane 18:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I've began to update the page for November, having archived the October articles to the monthly archive (it was a redirect to the current events page), but I didn't remove any of the pre-November headlines because I haven't looked into what important events have happened in November.  I did add the JP launch of PS3 but that's obviously not enough.  New to this region of Wikipedia so I'll be as bold as possible without screwing things up, but yah, we need to work on this: linkage from the main Current Events page means the lack of updates is somewhat embarrassing.  Kelvinc 11:13, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current events page 

message: Hey does anyone know what happened to the Workshop? Was it a good idea? Did the Peer review and GCotW negate the existance of such a thing? Just wondering.--Clyde Miller 02:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically, though I'd say it was more Peer Review and this talk page doing it in.  --PresN 00:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Workshop 

message: I've done a lot of work on Metal Gear Solid to progress it to Good Article status. Although it is clearly not finished, I'm stuck for things to do other than complete the references. It's clear every section needs expansion, but major expansion isn't needed for Good Article status. Does anyone have any ideas, or could help out? --TheEmulatorGuy 04:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You should take it to peer review. jaco♫plane 19:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The two sections that need expanding most are Gameplay and Story. Try not to go nuts with the story though, another two paragrpahs would be enough. It's a pretty solid article and reaching GA shouldn't take much more work (if any). -- Steel 19:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metal Gear Solid 

message: I just came along this category. Level-5 is a video game developer in Japan. The category is just Level-5 games, and the Level-5 article itself. They've made some games, not a whole lot. My question is, should the category be deleted, or renamed to Level-5 games? RobJ1981 21:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:Level-5]]

message: Is there a general "baby project" for Real Time Strategy games? or is that being too specific, and said games should just be listed under "Individual Games" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Qwilleranfan (talk • contribs) .
:Not sure what you mean. No, there isn't a WikiProject for RTS's, but what is this "Individual Games" listing you're talking about? --PresN 17:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Things like Command & Conquer and Command & Conquer: Red Alert need some TLC, so if you can round up some editors, an RTS project has its work cut out for it. --Zeality 19:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Real Time Strategy 

message: I've proposed a project on the Half-Life series. It's goal is to imrove HL related articles in a more co-ordinated fashion. Interested editors are invited to add their name to the list of participants. -- Selmo (talk) 04:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:Selmo/WikiProject Half-Life|Half-Life WP]] 

message: We may be at the brink of Armageddon here. The Verifiability Cabal is out there to get us.
Consider the following hypothetical example you may end up reading one beautiful day:
: A computer game is a computer-controlled game where players interact with objects displayed on a screen for the sake of entertainment.[citation needed] A video game is essentially the same form of entertainment, but refers not only to games played on a personal computer, but also to games run by a console or arcade machine.[citation needed]
Or: 
: A console game is a form of interactive multimedia used for entertainment.[citation needed] The game consists of manipulable images (and usually sounds) generated by a game console, and displayed on a television or similar audio-video system.[citation needed]
We have, by necessity, the need to give tons of really fundamental definitions, ones that are not necessarily all that well sourced anywhere.
Some say this is not a realistic horror scenario. It is a realistic horror scenario, however, if you read the Wikipedia policies. The only thing that stops people from demanding sources to these fundamental definitions is that they're being reasonable.
Okay, I admit it: I accuse people of having verifiability paranoia. Now I've developed paranoia about people having verifiability paranoia.
So I'm asking people's help here: Please add sources to these utterly fundamental and, only thus far, utterly unquestioned bits of knowledge. I'd hate to see them go because they can't be sourced. I'm profoundly clueless and I have absolutely no idea where to even begin looking for definitions for stuff like this.
Wikipedia values expertise because experts know their mentors. They know the Authorities who know what they're talking about. If someone asks me to find a source for a claim about algorithms or something, I can easily say "go look for it from Knuth or something". I'm supposed to be a computer expert, and it shows: I've been programming most of my life, it's easy to think of some Authority who knows stuff. But someone please help me - apparently, a decade of MUDding is far from enough for me to think of an Authority who knows anything at all about alternate characters. And following the game sales for a long time me clueless on where to find sources on these outrageous claims about  expansion packs.
We're doomed.[citation needed] --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 12:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: O-o-o-o-k.... Not sure quite what you're getting at here.  You're basically asking people to... add sources?  To articles?  So that they aren't deleted?  That's sort of in-line with WP policy, and sort of what we try to do- you don't pass GA or FA without them.  (And I won't even pass an article for B-class without them.)  I'm really not sure what, besides that, you're getting at. --PresN 17:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the problem here is that certain editors think that not passing WP:RS is grounds for deletion, when it's not. Not passing WP:V would be, but that should simply require you be able to authenticate the existance of the subject. (Notability is a whole other issue.) --tjstrf Now on editor review! 19:31, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fundamental definitions need sources 

message: Does the category serve much purpose?  I noticed it only has 6 articles in it. 3 for a portal on current events, and 3 for other things: Pump It Up seems to be listed, just due to the fact a new version is coming out? Bully (video game) seems to be listed, just because of the ongoing controversy of the game. MSX is listed, due to the fact that MSX games will be on the Wii's virtual console. Does this category even need to exist? Overall, there usually isn't many computer and video game events. There is E3 once a year, controversies with games and so on... but that's not a whole lot. RobJ1981 16:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's only populated with a software or an E3 tag (and E3 no longer exists in it's known form), a hardware tag seems to be a major oversight. I can understand its reason for being there, but if it's not used or populated it should go the way of the do-do. If it is to stay it needs an overhaul - hardware, software & event tags for starters.  - X201 16:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is very little in it at this time because there is very little going on at the moment. Such is the case with all of the current even subcategories. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 09:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:Current computer and video game events]]

message: The List of computer and video games considered the worst ever is an absolute joke, and the users "maintaining" the article aren't exactly helpful either.  A game has to be unimaginably bad to feature on that list, surely, some reliable publications have to put it on their "worst games ever" or give it their lowest ever review score.
How many publications actually consider Bomberman: Act Zero to be the worst game of all time?  Yet it somehow features on the list.  I removed it from the list, citing "[it's] shit, but isn't considered the worst ever" and was reverted.  It seems that every change has to be taken to the talk page, indeed its addition to the list was discussed  here, where the decision to add it really stemmed from its low average scores.  If you would like to see my reasoning, and why this game isn't considered the "worst ever", please go here and talk some sense into the folk there.  User:JackSparrow Ninja also has a simple lesson for you there. - Hahnchen 04:39, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Zero publications. Three publications described it as a very bad game. Not every bad thing is the worst ever. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The article is hopelessly POV, crufty and all that WP is not. I'd hit it for AFD. -_- Torinir ( Ding my phone My support calls E-Support Options ) 04:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it's already gone through 3 and they were all keep. I don't know if that influences anything, but I think it's worth mentioning.--Clyde Miller 05:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not going to get deleted.  See the many previous AFDS for the film version. - Hahnchen 05:20, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Ouch, what a mess. -- Ned Scott 07:51, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: User:JackSparrow Ninja has just reverted everything. I for one, being a neutral party, think MiB did the right thing here. This is overly WP:POV and WP:OR. -- moe.RON Let's talk | done 05:50, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. WP:V gives us the right to remove unsourced and OR information from articles on sight. The burden is on the editor who wishes to include, not on the one who wishes to remove. With this in mind I've restored AMIB's edits. I have a bad feeling that this will be another one of those boring, dragged out disputes. -- Ned Scott 09:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are 54 references. Are all not verifiable?--Clyde Miller 19:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of those references included sites such as "Gamecrap", Something Awful, and a joke page on OverClocked. I pared it down to reasonably major publications describing a game as "worst ever" or some synonym. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: well I checked the current version, and it looks like it's turning into a pretty good article. I don't know what the people maintaining it think though.--Clyde Miller 23:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I mentioned on that talk page, we could mold it to be like the Computer and video games that have been considered the greatest ever article. That should solve all problems with verification.  guitarhero777777 05:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of computer and video games considered the worst ever]] is a farce 

message: User:Combination has recently tagged a number of video game related images as lacking a fair use rationale despite being tagged with the standard screenshot and game-cover templates, or as lacking a source when the source is obviously the game itself. I don't know if there was recently a decision to require image-specific rationales so I'm not personally going to mass revert. Fredrik Johansson 13:31, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What he is doing is fine. If the source is the uploader, it needs to be explicitly stated. All images need fair use rationales too. If he didn't do it, someone else would eventually, and I commend him for it. Thunderbrand 13:41, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the source should be stated for screenshots since creating them is a creative act possibly subject to copyright, but there's nothing that needs to be sourced about the scanning of existing two-dimensional artwork (although it is of course courteous to do so). Further, I don't see why rationales in the standard templates are insufficient. Please enlighten me. Fredrik Johansson 14:25, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Upload page states pretty much everything you need. Thunderbrand 14:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to distinguish between license and rationale which details the purpose of the image. Any non-compliant material uploaded after 4 May can be deleted at any time, and by tagging these images uploaders will be given seven days to take corrective action (OrphanBot will deliver notifications). Combination 15:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Remember there is no "general rule" about fair use, each "fair use" must be explained and a rationale must be established for that specific use (i.e. every page that uses the image will have a distinct rationale for using the image on that page even though fair use is claimed on the image page).
The way it is worded, this is an extremely silly piece of policy. Why do images whose uses are identical require "distinct" rationales? What if I sit down and write an original rationale for my image and it accidentally turns out to resemble the rationale used by some other image somewhere on Wikipedia? I'm joking, of course, but the point is that it doesn't make sense to generalize this much. There may be no "general rule" about fair use, but there certainly can be general rules for certain categories of images that are used the same way, such as 99% of our game screenshots.
I should note that I'm all in favor of strict copyright compliance on Wikipedia, and I also commend those who work hard to ensure that as many images as possible have appropriate licensing information. But there are two problems here: 1) images are unnecessarily being deleted even in cases where it would be just as easy to fill the bits of missing information on the description pages as to tag them for deletion, and 2) "distinct" rationales are a waste of time in some cases. If I were to upload a game screenshot some time in the future, I would probably look up some existing screenshot page and copy the fair use rationale verbatim. I don't see why I couldn't just transclude a template. In fact, I'd probably create a template in my own user space for the purpose if I were to upload a large number of images in the future.
Now, OrphanBot would be great if it actually did deliver those notifications :-) My images were uploaded long before 4 May, by the way. - Fredrik Johansson 21:33, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: There is also Wikipedia:Fair use and it's policy sub section, WP:FUC. -- Ned Scott 22:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I agree with Jaco (and I don't completly understand Ned's comment's relevancy), but I usually try to add a source URL in my images if they are not taken by me for the pure and simple reason that if the image requires downsizing or reshaping, it is good it know where it came from. By the way, is this a good place and time to agree some basic ideas for this fair use template? Most rationales are the generally the same, but it might be good if an agreement was made on what should go into such as a template.--Clyde Miller 22:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Are you saying that we should be having this discussion over there? I'm asking because I'm not sure what you meant by posting those links. Also, I should point out that fair use issues related to this WikiProject were previously discussed here, here, and here. jaco♫plane 22:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow I guess I should have been providing the source URL for other reasons too. Oh well at least I've been doing it.--Clyde Miller 22:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? What other reasons do you mean? jaco♫plane 22:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Steel told me in this one that I need to provide a source.--Clyde Miller 23:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: A relevant discussion which has not been linked to is Do_screenshots_need_additional_source_information?.  But the source of the screenshot/boxart should NOT be some random mobygames/gamespot page, but the copyright holders.  Also, what Combination is doing with the tagging of watermarked images is a good thing, I was thinking of doing something like this myself, but it seemed too much work for little pay off.  The worst offender is that green gamespy logo, its a crap logo, so why paste it everywhere? - Hahnchen 02:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warning - fair use cvg images about to be deleted 

message: Hanchen introduced me to Shrine of Data today, a Japanese game sales tracking site that went down some time ago (fortunately archived; here's an example). It's being used at Perfect Dark and Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon (which is still in FAC if any of you can please review), and I'm curious if anyone has any objections or endorsements of its reliability. It's sort of impressive that it's presenting precise units sold as opposed to units shipped. But we don't know too much about it, so if any of you have more on the subject, please come forward. --Zeality 19:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Shrine of Data (Game Units Sold)

message: I think there are too many game reviews being posted as encyclopedia articles.  For example, please review World Series of Poker: Tournament of Champions — Preceding unsigned comment added by RmanB17499 (talk • contribs) 
:Blatant plagiarism. It's been tagged as a copyright violation. --Zeality 01:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reverted back to it's pre-copyvio version, which is a stub. -- moe.RON Let's talk | done 01:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Game Reviews

message: For an important gaming concept, this article is seriously lacking. It mostly consists of an ever-growing list, arranged according to an original boss taxonomy. 'Last/final boss' is a familar gaming term, but what about 'stylish boss' or 'stalker boss'? Any input or comment would be most welcome.--Nydas 08:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Find reference materials and itegrate them into the text. The section is falling into original research teritory (if not already there). Also, it may be that large sections of this text are just inheritantly POV and will have to be deleted. For example, Strong boss, "This boss is difficult to defeat because it has a lot of energy and/or deals a large amount of damage." Says who? What's difficult for the average gamer is a lot different from what's difficult for a novice gamer. -Mitaphane talk 01:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that this article needs to be improved, as bosses are indeed an important CVG concept.  I was going to nominate this for GCotW ,but should it be nominated for Peer Review instead? It's not quite a stub but it needs major improvements. New User 14:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Boss (video games)]]

message: I'm requesting some writing assistance for Unreal Engine. My abilities to regurgitate references is somewhat limited, but I've put a number of sources up on the UE talk page. If someone would take a look and see if they could create an improved article, I'd be extremely happy. Thanks. Torinir ( Ding my phone My support calls E-Support Options ) 00:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I stuck the game engine infobox in for you, but not very filled out. I don't know much about the engine, so you'll have to finish it.--Clyde Miller 01:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd need to wait for their release of UT2007 before hitting the box with version/release date of UE3. But there are three major releases of the engine that a single infobox may not accomodate properly. Torinir ( Ding my phone My support calls E-Support Options ) 02:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may want to consider multiple userboxes then or splitting the article. I don't know much about that and I would suggest you wait for other input. I'm not sure what the deal with multiple userboxes are.--Clyde Miller 02:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All of the flavors of the Unreal Engine share many common components. It's mostly the graphical rendering engine and physics engines that have changed significantly from release to release. The UScript roots, UnrealEd editor, and filesystem structure have remained similar across the various versions of UE. Torinir ( Ding my phone My support calls E-Support Options ) 03:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well then there's no need to split it, just organize it. I don't understand why, but the release dates look really awkward, crowded, and unreadable. I'm not sure why. Maybe try only putting the latest release date and version (2.5). I'm not sure.--Clyde Miller 02:15, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Each engine is distinct, even if they share common roots. I don't know if the box can be modified to accomodate this engine, that may be something to ask another editor. And with Gears of War being released, Unreal Engine 3 is technically live. (although I don't know what engine build it is using, since I don't have an XBox 360) Torinir ( Ding my phone My support calls E-Support Options ) 02:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Tech work isn't my forte either, so you may want to look around or wait for a response from someone who does know. Maybe you could try to put it in a list form, but again, I don't know how.--Clyde Miller 02:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Help request: [[Unreal Engine]]

message: I just wanted to mention here that I have reinstated this article with new sources that confirm from Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy Versus XIII staff that this engine will now be used on ALL next-gen games from Square Enix. The article will be able to grow in the coming months as more information on these and other games are revealed. If anyone has objections, please voice them. -- moe.RON Let's talk | done 19:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed it again. The consensus to merge it was made only two months ago, and the basic premise hasn't changed. This isn't the first time that Square Enix has said that they intend to use the engine for multiple games, but the fact remains that none of those games have been released yet, and only one or two have even been announced. There's next to nothing concrete known about the engine, and the source cited in the article states that it's not even completed yet. Wikipedia is still not a crystal ball, and I don't see any reason to doubt that the consensus reached earlier still holds. It's best that this discussion be continued at the Square Enix WikiProject, as there's probably a higher concentration of interested editors there. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 21:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I copied this to Square Enix so they can discuss it.--Clyde Miller 22:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the crystal ballishness of this is getting vaguer by the week, since there have been two interviews in magazines in the last two weeks detailing Version 1 of the engine by Nomura as well as his take on what Verison 2 and 3 are going to include. Granted, they are in Japanese (Electric Shock Magazine and I forget the other), but the information is steadily rolling in now. I will not reinstate the article yet again, but there is probably going to be enough for a full article very soon. -- moe.RON Let's talk | done 18:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[White Engine]] 

message: See the history.  See the reverts.  A user is not happy that the article does not reflect his US-centric views and keeps on altering/reverting the article.  I actually don't care that much, but he keeps on spouting consensus/AFD/red tape/process/consensus/consensus/talk.  The article was moved from Sega CD to Sega Mega-CD in line with the Sega Mega Drive move, but now a user wants to plant that flag for the US by changing the subject of the article from Sega Mega-CD to Sega-CD.  High Five! - Hahnchen 02:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't sweat it, WP:NC applies as Mega-CD is the popular term. Combination 18:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:NC is also part of the problem. Those who favour Mega-CD cite WP:NC as covering the fact that the rest of the World knew it as Mega-CD. Those that support Sega-CD cite WP:NC saying that it covers their standpoint because there are more of them (English speakers) and that speakers of another language don't count because they can use the other language Wikis. I know that the former argument holds more water than the latter, but some people refuse to see the argument. And at some point "The Google test" will be brought up as well.  - X201 20:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crap going on at [[Sega Mega-CD]] 

message: I noticed that a lot of talk has been going on about game engines (I should know, I'm involved). Does anyone know if a game engine has ever been made into a good article? I worked with some, even wrote one, but I found they are mostly stubs. Why are they so forgotten? What makes a good game engine article?--Clyde Miller 03:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well you definitely need to go into more technical detail than a typical CVG article.  The reason engine articles are never that good is because users just lack the technical knowledge.  Whereas it might be quite easy to source plot guides and reviews for the latest final fantasy, it's going to take a lot more know-how to present its engine specifications to the reader.  Of the engine articles I'm familiar with, I think Source engine is probably quite good. - Hahnchen 03:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah yes, I recall that name from before, but I forgot what it was. Short of an infobox, that is a pretty good article. I suppose lack of resources will hamper me writing such an article though.--Clyde Miller 21:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Engines 

message: Why is the PlayStation 3 article rated as Mid importance, but the Wii article is rated as low importance? JONJONAUG 13:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This was brought up above. Basically it comes down to this: the importance ratings are just a guage for what should be worked on for Wikipedia 1.0; there is nothing official about it; bump it up to mid if you want. I'd say probably all the next gen consoles should be at mid importance. —Mitaphane talk 14:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would think that all of the current consoles, which both the Wii and PS3 will be by next week, would be high importance. Koweja 21:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a look at the prior discussion mentioned above. Two important things brought up (for the importance of W1.0 inclusion) were stability and impact of the topic. Right now both the articles are in a constant flux(the Wii article has around 30 revisions for just today) because there is a lot coverage going on. Also, the impact of the Wii and PS3 won't be known for a while. I'd say it be at least a year before things stable out and we what impact the consoles have had. —Mitaphane talk 22:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question here 

message: Hi. I brought this subject up at the GA project, Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_candidates#question_regarding_nominated_article_Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles:_Turtles_in_Time, whether the lists of enemies and of levels of the GA nominated article Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles:_Turtles_in_Time is appropriate for a Wikipedia article. In that post, I referred to your Scope section, at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Computer_and_video_games#Scope_of_information where you say A general rule of thumb to follow if unsure: if the content only has value to people actually playing the game, it's unsuitable. Keep in mind that video game articles should be readable and interesting to non-gamers; remember the bigger picture.
As far as I know, there isn't any guideline on this, although one draw conclusions from What Wikipedia is Not. Since the article is question is under the scope of this project, could you take a look to determine if that sort of information is appropriate for a GA article? I opened a section at Talk:Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles:_Turtles_in_Time#Question_regarding_the_lists where you may reply.
Fred-Chess 17:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lists on TMNT article 

message: I've noticed that a lot of consoles and games do one of two things for the North American release:
* Label it "North America" and put either no flag or the US flag by it
* List Canada and the US separately even if they have the same release date
Now, North America isn't really an accurate label since Mexico is part of NA but doesn't always have the same release schedule as the US and Canada, so it would be best to say US & Canada instead of NA.
In order to prevent duplicate entries, I propose that we use this flag  instead. It lets us list two countries' release date in one statement without only using one flag.Koweja 21:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We've had this discussion, and it was decided to use the ISO country codes. It was pointed out that Flag graphics make life harder for blind people who use speaking browers. - X201 21:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. I didn't realize that this had been discussed. Koweja 21:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh? How many blind people play video games? It strikes me as rather accessibility paranoid. Especially considering that the somewhat visually impaired likely would have an easier time seeing the flags than reading the light gray ISO codes. --tjstrf talk 21:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That wasn't the main criteria in the flags debate, just one of them. But just because someone can't see a game shouldn't make it harder for them to find out about it. I've been looking for the archive of the debate but haven't found it yet. Flag icon for North America - X201 21:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess those reasons work. Though it's a nice case of between-WikiProject inconsistancy that should be ironed out someday. --tjstrf talk 22:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You might be interested in WP:FLAGS, an essay/MOS proposal that in fact tries to iron out differences. Nifboy 06:03, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, accessibility is a good point that I should have thought about. It's not just blind users (and btw, you should never say "a blind person would never do xxxxxx" - you'd be surprised). Small icons also cause a problem for people with poor vision (but can still see) and people who simply turn off images. However, if the images can have alt tags, it shouldn't be a problem. That said, I am off to read the debate and see what the other issues were. Koweja 22:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Speaking as someone who prefers the ISO codes from a design standpoint (the tiny little icons look messy, IMO), I would think that the flags, properly used, would be far more useful to people in a text-only browser: the word "Japan," as presented in an ALT tag, would be more immediately understandable than the code "JP." But it's a minor point, anyway: the infobox itself is unlikely to be particularly useful when rendered by a text-only browser, so worrying about a tiny image inside of it seems to be missing the forest for the trees. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 06:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. Surely, wouldn't it just be better to do what Gamespot and IGN do, and use NA for North America and EU for European Union and JAP for Japan? Of course, that doesn't take into account Australia, which for some bizarre reason is included into the European market, but it would be much better, wouldn't it? Wolf ODonnell 13:08, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would suggest using the ISO standards, for consistency's sake. I think ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 for countries (JPN for Japan, USA for the United States, GBR for the United Kingdom, etc.) works best. Unfortunately, there's probably no really effective and accepted continent code we can use: the ISO has a one-letter region code, but it's not really intuitive (how many people would automatically know that "F" means Africa, or that "L" means East Asia). But it's not like this problem is any simpler with flags, so I think we're all agreed on that front. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 21:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flags for North American releases 

message: What on earth is the significance of this section in the article?
Earning 910 points on yellow robots
To earn 910 points on the yellow robot levels:
1) Exit the first two levels without shooting any robots
2) On the third level, kill 5 robots for a total of 250 points
3) Kill all 11 yellow robots on the fourth level to earn 660 more points (for a total of 910)
84.64.75.86 16:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: None, I'll remove it. Timkovski 16:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Berzerk]] 

message: nexgenwars.com appears to be the next vgcharts. I think it is time for me to open my own site to measure console success. Who wants to help me to set it up? Seriously now, this site does a statistical medition (I guess that, based on the last official sales information, calculates how many units they had sold every second, and then calculate the amount of units accordingly). This is much worse than vgcharts, because by just CTRL+F5 the page will deliver "updated" numbers, numbers that will make anonymous update the article. Just check the Console wars article. I suggest recommending against linking to it until it has been considered a reliable source by reliable sites (like IGN and Gamespot), dismissing Joystiq, Kotaku and other gaming blog. Anyone thinks this is reasonable? -- ReyBrujo 20:09, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  nexgenwars next vgcharts? 

message: A gaming neologism describing side-scrolling adventures. The article is well written, but I'm unsure as to whether a fairly uncommon term like this deserves its own article and category.--Nydas 23:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Metroidvania]] 

message: This article is currently marked as a start article.  At the time that it was marker this did fit however, since then I have made some significant changes.  I would like someone else to review and possibly change it's status. Kc4 06:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Comments left on the talk page. Nifboy 08:26, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[XEvil]]

message: Not quite sure how to list CfDs on the project page, but there are several categories up for discussion at the moment on Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 November 23, including :Category:Computer and video game themes. Marasmusine 14:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some CVG-related CfD's 

message: I propose we create a Copyediting Team that can go around and help edit articles. Anyone is invited; this is the group to call on when we have requests for copyedit/FA/GA pushes. What do you all think? — Deckiller 15:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just put important articles that need copyedits in the to-do list at the top of this page. I don't think a seperate project should be made just for copyedits to get new FA or GA articles. This project can easily cover that. RobJ1981 17:14, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably better to add it to . jaco♫plane 17:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that 95 % of the project articles need solid copyedits. — Deckiller 01:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you there. Even some of the Good or featured articles could use some copyediting. It also seems apparent that many people who are knowledgeable in video games or good at writing such articles seem to lack "brilliant" or even sometimes "good" writing skills (me included).--Clyde Miller 02:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Go here.--Clyde Miller 23:21, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyediting Team