Talk:Anand Karaj

message: The Anand Karaj is a small part of the whole Sikh wedding ceremony. Although technically this *is* the wedding but there are many other things, e.g. Nahai Dhoi (bathing the groom). The "If you are invited to a Sikh wedding" may be relevant to an article on SIKH WEDDING (although I have doubts about that too) but here - I 'd say it is totally out of context! Bunty.Gill 05:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: How is the "If you are invited to a Sikh wedding" thing relevant?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: In the 'History of Anand Karaj' section, the article says "The history of the Anand marriage ceremony is traced back to the time of Guru Amar Das", which gives an erroneous picture. The ceremony involves the couple making 4 'Rounds' around the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (SGGS Ji) as each of the Laav hymn is read and sung. The present Anand Kaaraj ceremony could not have originated with the 3rd or the 4th Guru because SGGS Ji did not exist then. It was put together by the 5th Guru - Guru Arjan Dev Ji.
===== Why not the 4th Guru? =====
It is true that the Laavaan part of the ceremony was composed by the 4th Guru - Guru Ram Das. He composed the 4 stanzas of the Laavaan for his spiritual 'wedding' to God [SGGS Ji pp. 773-774]. In the Hymn  preceding it [SGGS Ji p. 773, Shabad #1] Guru Ram Das ji prepares himself to be worthy of marriage to God. He does this by effacing his sinful behaviours and replacing them with virtues. It is in fact an Engagement ceremony in which Pundits are consulted - same as per  existing Hindu custom - and they declare the moment to be auspicious for the wedding go-ahead with the four 'rounds'. God manifests in the Bride's heart/mind - in fact in her consciousness. In Guru Nanak's philosophy all men and women are Brides of Husband- God. Few Sikhs are aware that this Hymn is actually an Engagement ceremony. There are numerous references in SGGS Ji about wedding to God, e.g. on page 78 by the 4th Guru. The reason for the numerous references is that the key message of SGGS Ji is to be one with God i.e. live a virtuous life.
===== Why not the 3rd Guru? =====
The Anand Kaaraj Sikh wedding ceremony did not originate with the 3rd Guru - Guru Amar Das Ji either. To say so is a gross misrepresentation of the very popular Hymn Anand Sahib, on which the article in question is based. According to Sikh Rehat Muryada- the Sikh Code of Conduct- this Hymn is one of 5 designated for daily recitation by Sikhs [SGGS Ji pp. 917-922]. In Anand Sahib, Guru Amar Das Ji is overjoyed at finding God through the Guru, [SGGS Ji p. 917 s. 1]. He did this by singing God's Praises and to always keep God in mind . The word Anand and its variations appear 167 times in SGGS Ji.
In the 2nd stanza, the word Kaaraj is used. There is no doubt the author has connected it  too with Anand Kaaraj - name of the Sikh wedding ceremony. Kaaraj simply means doing any work at hand. The word Kaaraj appears 115 times in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. 
This Hymn is not about performing human weddings. As being one of the five daily Hymns to recite, Guru Ji was not reciting wedding vows daily but prayers to God for bliss, tranquility and contentedness. This fits in entirely with the central and recurring theme of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And that message being about how to become a virtuous person by keeping the illusory charms of maya at bay - which lead to five main vikaars/sins mentioned repeatedly. They are lust, excessive anger, greed, attachment to worldly things and ego.
The article goes on to say that the Laavaan (Rounds) were added by the 4th Guru to the already existing Anand Kaaraj ceremony. As mentioned above, he did compose them but the Sikh Holy Book did not exist then. All Gurbani prior to compilation of SGGS Ji by the 5th Guru were manuscripts of each author.
===== View of Singh Sabha =====
The point I make has quite some history behind it. After the demise of last of the ten Sikh Gurus in 1708 fighting the Moghuls, Sikhi started to fracture. Control of Sikh religious matters went to Nirmala and Udaasi Sikhs. They did not subscribe to Guru Nanak's philosophy exclusively, but also believed in Hindu Scriptures; and Nirmala Sikhs control the top governing Sikh body SGPC today from Amritsar. After Punjab came under British rule after the Second Anglo-Sikh War, Christian missionaries flooded in. In reaction some educated Sikhs got together and started Singh Sabha, a revival movement. The conflict with Singh Sabha came to a head in the mid 1880's over precisely the issue of Anand Kaaraj -- Singh Sabha insisted on using the SGGS Ji and the Pseudo Sikhs using fire for the 'rounds' of the ceremony; "The pseudo Sikhs rejected the Anand ceremony on the grounds Sikh gurus did not perform their marriage with it. Further they cited that major Sikh texts like Dasam Granth and Gur Bilas contained no referenced to Anand ritual."  
So in summary, there is really no primary information when it was adopted for ordinary Sikh weddings. Sikh history is woefully lacking. It is written by others from their own perspectives. Only thing widely known is that Sikh Anand Kaaraj ceremony was recognised by the Government in 1909.
I would appreciate some feedback on my suggestions. Thank you!
--Dave Bains (talk) 22:16, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attribution in the 'History' section 

message: The point I make has quite some history behind it. After the demise of last of the ten Sikh Gurus in 1708 fighting the Moghuls, Sikhi started to fracture. Control of Sikh religious matters went to Nirmala and Udaasi Sikhs. They did not subscribe to Guru Nanak's philosophy exclusively, but also believed in Hindu Scriptures; and Nirmala Sikhs control the top governing Sikh body SGPC today from Amritsar. After Punjab came under British rule after the Second Anglo-Sikh War, Christian missionaries flooded in. In reaction some educated Sikhs got together and started Singh Sabha, a revival movement. The conflict with Singh Sabha came to a head in the mid 1880's over precisely the issue of Anand Kaaraj -- Singh Sabha insisted on using the SGGS Ji and the Pseudo Sikhs using fire for the 'rounds' of the ceremony; "The pseudo Sikhs rejected the Anand ceremony on the grounds Sikh gurus did not perform their marriage with it. Further they cited that major Sikh texts like Dasam Granth and Gur Bilas contained no referenced to Anand ritual."  
So in summary, there is really no primary information when it was adopted for ordinary Sikh weddings. Sikh history is woefully lacking. It is written by others from their own perspectives. Only thing widely known is that Sikh Anand Kaaraj ceremony was recognised by the Government in 1909.
I would appreciate some feedback on my suggestions. Thank you!
--Dave Bains (talk) 22:16, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  View of Singh Sabha