Talk:Jacob De la Gardie

message: Jaakko (Jacob) De la Gardie's Finnishness is clear, because we know who the grandmother was.  Besides, De la Gardie grew up in Finland.
Even today, we can always determine a child's mother.  Determining the father is a bit more difficult task, even today !  Jaakko De la Gardie was very much Finnish, regardless of what empire Finland might have been a part of !
Sticking to truth 10:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is an article in the Finnish genealogical journal Genos on the issue, showing that Karin Hansdotter was from Stockholm, daughter of Ingeborg Åkesdotter, an illegitimate daughter of the councillor Åke Hansson (Tott), and her husband Hans Klasson, whose identity is uncertain but who may possibly be identical to a clergyman Johannes Nicolai Kökemäster. Nothing indicates a Finnish origin. u p p l a n d 11:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: His birthname was Jakob Pontusson De la Gardie (English spelling "Jacob"), his father was french, his mother Swedish. He was born in Reval, Estonia and raised with his maternal grandmother in the Åbo castle in Turku, then the second biggest city of the Sweden. —MoRsΞ 13:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not make inferences from pre 19th century names. All names where "multilingual"; they were rendered according to the language of the text. This same rule still applies to royal names. Most 17th century names have biblical origin. They could be rendered in any language. The fact that the name of a 17th century person appears in Swedish form in a Swedish language documet is no proof of "Swedishnes". -- Petri Krohn 22:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is simply absurd to even try to define Jakob de la Gardie´s ethnicity using modern concepts of "Finnish" or "Swedish". Jakob served in the army of Sweden and most probably had Swedish as his first language (I do not know if he knew Finnish at all). He lived before any Finnish identity had really crystallized among the upper classes, and he must have considered himself as a Swedish nobleman. So it could be said that he was a Swede in the 17th century sense. Of course, anyone will realize that being a Swede in the 17th century was very  different thing than being a Swede in the 21st century. Using modern concepts, many of the 17th century Swedes could be categorized as "Finland-Swedes", who are generally considered to represent the Finnish and not the Swedish ethnicity. However, in a pre-19th century context the concept of "Finland-Swede" is completely anachronistic and should not be used. That form of a sub-ethnic identity did not exist yet.--217.112.242.181 13:05, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: His Finnishness is clear, because we know who the grandmother was

message: I think that in English, a country led by a king can indeed be called as an empire. Like, the British Empire, ruled by a king or a queen. Kven User is apparently thinking here the word empire as an equivalent of the Finnish word keisarikunta, meaning roughly an "emperor-dom".--217.112.242.18113:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: British Empire was called an "Empire" because the ruler of the United Kingdom was also the Emperor of India, counting from Queen Victoria. "Swedish Empire" is strictly speaking an incorrect term. --Drieakko 08:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Both terms are used retroactively. -- Petri Krohn 10:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "how can a country led by a king be called an empire??"