Talk:Joseph P. Kennedy Sr.

message: The wording, "confined" in regard to Kennedy's eventual state following his stroke and rehabilitation is an acceptable description.  There was an objection to it that seemed more along the lines of being politically correct rather than accurate and reflecting the time period when Kennedy lived and died.  An IP then came along, having never edited the article previously, and reverted.  Discussion really should take place rather than reverting/edit warring per WP:BRD.  -- WV ● ✉ ✓  14:56, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Confined" 

message: Coming fresh to this article, the fourth paragraph of the lead, focussed entirely on Rosemary's lobotomy, seems very oddly placed. While a tragedy for Rosemary, and an indicator of Joe's unsympathetic approach, it hardly seems one of the major facts of a very full life. The events are fully covered later in the article in the Marriage and family section, but I do wonder whether it warrants such prominence in the lead. I see this was the subject of discussion back in 2013, so rather than just edit it, I thought I'd raise it here. KJP1 (talk) 19:06, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Lobotomy

message: In the "Ambassador To The United Kingdom" section, delete the "to" before the quote due to redundancy and grammatical incorrectness:
... in order to "to bring about a better understanding between the United States and Germany".
should read as:
... in order "to bring about a better understanding between the United States and Germany". 68.134.157.81 (talk) 06:28, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Elected to remove the second "to" instead, so we don't split the "in order to". Reads better that way. Thanks. ―Mandruss ☎ 06:35, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2018 

message: Read: See "Iced: The Story of Organized Crime in Canada By Stephen Schneider  pp. 207-9 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gaamain (talk • contribs) 01:15, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The cited text says that one former employee "heard anecdotes, rumors, and stories" --But Kennedy's enemies for 90 years and been unable to find anything more substantial than old rumors.  In the Canadian Royal Commission case a very different person was involved--a much older Canadian named Daniel Joseph Kennedy  who spent his life in Canada. David Nasaw says "The Joseph Kennedy of Joseph Kennedy Ltd. was not, however, Joseph P. Kennedy of Brookline, but Daniel Joseph Kennedy of 1119 Nelson Street, Vancouver."  see https://books.google.com/books?id=EGrvgTj4Xh8C&pg=PT69  Rjensen (talk) 14:18, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proof Joe Kennedy was a Bootlegger 

message: It can easily be argued that the "disputes" were nothing more than a political stunt.2601:447:4101:41F9:65DC:560F:EE83:B438 (talk) 01:24, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: which RS makes that statement???  Rjensen (talk) 01:27, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Kennedy's Private Relationship With Coughlin Didn't Match Public "Disputes"

message: This page states that JFK and Jackie O. had 4 children. I only know of 2.
Thanks,
Amy Singstock  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.250.101.186 (talk) 01:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Arabella, who was stillborn, Patrick, who died at 2 days, JFK Jr, and Caroline. KJP1 (talk) 06:11, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thankfully, no, the article doesn't call her "Jackie O." in that context. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:57, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Jackie was pregnant 5x. She had a miscarriage in 1954, a stillbirth in 1956, Caroline in 1957, John in 1960, & Patrick in 1963. I don't know where this 'Arabella' thing originated, but I've yet to have seen definitive proof that this was the intended name for the stillborn daughter, & I wish people would stop using it. Roman Catholics do not name stillborn children because a dead child cannot be christened as its soul has already departed its body. The gravestone says 'Baby Girl Kennedy' on it. ScarletRibbons (talk) 07:26, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't aware that the Arabella thing was in doubt until I read this. I looked at the JFK and Jackie articles, and, other reasoning about Roman Catholics aside, the sourcing is weak at best. The JFK article cites no source, and Jackie's cites two sources that are not readily accessible and therefore can't easily be evaluated. Under normal circumstances, I would probably remove both instances as unsourced or insufficiently sourced. But that's sure to require far more time and energy investment in defending the removal, the Kennedys being such an emotional subject for so many, and my time and energy are pretty much tapped elsewhere right now.You might want to at least raise the issue at Talk:John F. Kennedy and see what happens. If you do, I'd suggest you limit your comments to sourcing (verifiability) and avoid discussion about Roman Catholicism. ―Mandruss ☎ 08:58, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Children of JFK and Jackie

message: The article needs more sources and inline citations. It has been tagged accordingly. SunCrow (talk) 06:41, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: I was wrong to repeatedly edit JPK’s name in lead, aka edit war. I am raising the topic here in JPK’s WP page. I know that some may refer to him as Joseph Patrick Kennedy Sr. But referring to father and son as Joseph Sr. & Joseph Jr. is actually something that is done while they are alive. The patriarch of the Kennedys was named Joseph Patrick Kennedy not Joseph Patrick Kennedy Sr. His son was Joseph Patrick Kennedy Jr. He is also the namesake of his grandson (RFK’s son) Joseph Patrick Kennedy II as well as JPK II’s son Congressman Joseph Patrick Kennedy III. There is precedent for the names of prominent men who named their son “Junior.” President John F. Kennedy had a son John F. Kennedy Jr. but JFK is not referred to in his WP page as John F. Kennedy Sr. His brother Senator Robert F. Kennedy has a son Robert F. Kennedy Jr. but RFK is not referred to in his WP page as Robert F. Kennedy Sr. The same thing for Edward “Ted” Kennedy who has a son Edward “Ted” Kennedy Jr. The current president of the United States Donald J. Trump has a son Donald J. Trump Jr. Donald J. Trump is not referred to in his WP page as Donald J. Trump Sr. NapoleonX (talk) 05:38, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joseph Patrick Kennedy  not Joseph Patrick Kennedy Sr 

message: The article cites a source dated November 10, 1940, for Kennedy's comment about democracy being finished in England.  It then suggests that FDR called him home and had him make a speech in favor of his reelection.  That cannot be accurate, because the 1940 presidential election was held on November 5, 1940.71.223.81.114 (talk) 06:37, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct, and see below under 'Recall from London'. He was not in fact recalled, that's a myth, he deserted his post. Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:46, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joe Kennedy's Defeatism 

message: Insiders at ProPublica have been saying great things about Shirley's hard-fought relationship with Joseph. -John Potti  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.217.214 (talk) 15:02, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shirley Temple 

message: The article describes Pringle as having confessed to being paid by Kennedy to frame Pantages on her deathbed, but one of the two sources cited for this, Cari Beauchamp's Joseph P. Kennedy's Hollywood Years says the opposite, pointing out that Pringle didn't make the alleged deathbed confession in 1933 because she was lived until 1996. This contradicts the other source cited, Kenneth Anger's Hollywood Babylon II which was published in 1984, 12 years before Pringle actually passed away. Given that Beauchamp was a historian and Anger a filmmaker/actor, it seems like she was a more reliable source. I think it would make sense to change the article to reflect that there were false rumors of Kennedy paying Pringle to frame Pantages. 24.44.151.234 (talk) 15:41, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eunice Pringle 

message: This source suggests that Kennedy was not recalled at all, but wrote a 6 October 1940 letter to FDR asking to be relieved and saying he was coming home anyway. (Probably just because he was scared of the bombing campaign carried out by his German friends. He'd apparently moved his family out of London -- the King and Queen did not leave -- and became known as 'Jittery Joe' to the British press as a result.) He and his family arrived in New York on 27 October. The notorious Boston Sunday Globe interview in which he claimed 'Democracy is finished in England' only appeared on 10 November. It may have contributed to his formal sacking in February 1941, once FDR was re-inaugurated and didn't need his help with the Irish vote any more, but it occurred a month after he had already deserted his post. https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/joseph-p-kennedy-most-controversial-ambassador-to-great-britain/ There may be print sources that go into this a bit more.  Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recall from London