Talk:Crop circle/Archive 4

message: Science of Crop CIrcles
A study of the scientific evidence
This is an attempt to incorporate within the crop circle article those observations which have been reported by serious investigators in the field and the results of scientific analysis of those observations, using the scientific method. We will use the prevailing literature base for our domain of knowledge.
Scientific Investigators
Dr. Eltjo Hasellhof, a practicing physicist, once employed at Los Alaamos and several Dutch Institutes, presently the senior scientist at a medical imaging company in the U.K., has rigorously investigated the crop circle phenomenon. His findings are published in "Deepening complexity of Crop Circles:" by Eltjo H. Hasellhoff, Ph.D. The title of his dissertation was "Aspects if a Compton Free-Electron Laser".
As a good introduction to the phenomenon from the scientific perspective, Dr. Heselhoff writes: Page 128,
"The Facts:" 
"In the last twenty years. there has been much speculation about different aspects of crop circles. But it takes more than just a little reading to understand where the facts end and where the fiction begins. Personal involvement and investigation, field work, discussion with many people, crucial questions, and much thinking are needed to reveal the true character of the crop circle phenomenon. Unfortunately, much of the public infrmation is not very accurate or even is completely wrong, as a result of ignorance, lack of accuracy or objectivity. or simply evil intent. Although many alleged crop circle properties cannot bear the scrutiny of an objective analysis. some relativly simple observations seem to defy any trivial explanation. Biophysical anomalies, in terms of node leghtening and germination anomalies, are probably number one on this list. The lack of any indication of human presense or mechanical flattening, observed many times in even the most fragile and delicate species of crop, is perhaps somewhat less objective but still good for a second place. The awesome complexity and particularily the hidden geometry in many pictograms at least indicate that this cannot be the result of a simple joke. Even fantastic and extraordinaty observations, in the form of a radient balls of light hovering above a field and creating a crop circle, can fulfill the requirements that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." This extraordinary evidence was delivered in Chapter Three. The node-length measurements unambiguously showed a perfect symmetry in three different cross sections through the circular imprint, in perfect correlation with the radiation pattern of an electromagnetic point source. This is indeed the required extraordinaty evidence, which at least ought to open our minds to the dozens of other, similar eyewitness accounts, and of course the video material of the flying balls of light. Moreover, since identical findings were accepted for publication in the scientific literature, it is quite legitimate to say that the involvement of balls of light in crop circles formations has by now become a scientifically accepted fact. (3) And there is much more extraordinary evidence, in the form of burn marks on the bird box, delicately draped, undamaged carrot leaves; a virgin circle in a frozen field of snow, dead flies, and much more. Anyone who takes the time to explore and verify all of these findings personall find that the facts are plain: Something very strange is going on." 
At the conclusion of his report, Dr. Hasehoff presents his own conclusions:
Conclusion one: The suggestion that crop circles are all made by practical jokers with simple flattening tools is by no means sufficient to explain all documented observations.
Conclusion Two: The crop circle phenonmenon is often erroneously ridiculted and much undersestimated in its complexity.
Conclusion Three: The true nature of the crop circle phenonmenon is unknown to the general public.
Conclusion Four: "Those who are unqualified to judge should refrain from comment." (D.G. Terence Meaden)
Conclusion Five: Small radiation sources with an electomagnetic character ("Balls of Light") are directly involved in the creation of crop circles. (Their origin and exact character remain yet unknown.)
Conclusion Six: Something very strange is going on.
(A) Principle investigator/sources/reference
(1)Internet reference/source
(1a)Website of organization using scientific methods/analysis:
http://www.bltresearch.com/index.html
Quoting directly from the website, this is their introduction:
BLT RESEARCH TEAM INC.
PURPOSE: The BLT Research Team Inc.'s primary focus is crop circle research - the discovery, scientific documentation and evaluation of physical changes induced in plants, soils and other materials at crop circle sites by the energy (or energy system) responsible for creating them and to determine, if possible, from these data the specific nature and source of these energies. Secondly, our intent is to publish these research results in peer-reviewed scientific journals and to disseminate this information to the general public through lectures, mainstream articles and the internet.
Their reports include ---
Reported Observations
A great variety of observations in crop circles have been reported. Some are typical of a class of crop circles, while some are isolated instances. These are characteristics of crop circles that have been reported/found.
History - The earliest reference to a crop circle is a 1678 wood cut which depicts a circle of crop being cut down by a figure of the Devil. They have appeared since the turn of the Century and esitmates of 100 to 300 circles have been found prior to 1980. Some say as much as 10,000 since 1970. Many farmers tell of their fathers talking about crop circles.
Distribution - worldwide, with the majority in the southern UK. Have been found in most other countries including U.S., Canada, Hungary, BVewlgium, Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, Turkey, JPuerto Rico, New Zealand and Australia.
Location - most often in fields of grain. But also have been found on ice, dried lake beds and snow. It is believed that the natural aquifiers found in England contribute much to their occurance there.
Size - Early crop circles were of modest size, 15 to 60 feet in diameter. Recent circles can stretch as much as 900 feet
Visible Nodal Changes - One of the most prominant features of a crop circle is the bending of the plant usually at the node. Often the nodes have burst. Typically, the length of one side of the node increases up to 200% thereby bending the plant over. (See picture) While the heigth of the bend from the ground is usually close to the ground, a set of three circles had nodes which were bent at different heights as one progressed toward the center forming a pattern which was then repeated over and over until the center was reached. The pattern was identical in each of the three circles. Haselhoff was able to take plants from prescribed positions, measure their nodes using compouter hardware and software, and determine a correlation between distence from center to edge and a hypothetical EMF source above the circle. This is "hard" evidence that the circles were created by an EMF of some sort.
Magnetic Anomalies - In many cases compasses are affected severely, metal becomes magnetized. In one video, Dr. W.C. Levengood, a professor and biophysicist, moves a magnet toward a seed taken from inside the circle. The magnet attracts the seed and holds it off the table.
Battery depletion - In many cases the battery of an electronic device taken into a circle becomes depleted. This has happened even to batteries known to have been fully charged before taking it into the circle.
Energy lines - Usually found by dowsing, confirmed by electronic sensors, the circle's geometry is usually found to line up with these natural lines.
Intricate Lay - The crop is laid down in woven and interwoven patterns. As many as four layers of stalks each layer flowing in different directions have been found. In the Julia set circle, a different pattern of lay was found in each of the hundred circles. In one circle, a single standing stalk was found in every square foot of the circle.
vertical patterns - in one circle the bent of the plant varied in a repeatable pattern as they were laid down toward the center. This became obvious when the plants grew upward at these different hieghts.
Eye/ear Witnesses - Most circles being created are not witnessed. There are instances that the circle was observed during it's formation by an eyewitness
Bent Rape Stems - Oil seed rape or canola has a stem structure like celery, it breaks easily. Circles are found in canola fields with bent stalks, here just below a node. One photograph shows a canola plant bent 180 degrees.
Cellular Changes - Laboratory analysis shows several kinds of changes in the cellular structure.
Carbon Blackening - Interestingly, when the node of a stalk bursts, a black ring is often found. Originally thought to be due to charring, it was shown to be a opprotunistic fungus.
Balls Of Light - Lights in the form of a circle or sphere have been seen hundreds of times. In one video two balls of light are seen circling a field and then a crop circle appears in a matter of seconds. It is commonly accepted that these BoL's as they are called, are responsible for making a genuine circle. Heselhoff states that because of the many sightings, and appearence in two journals, the balls of light can legitimately be reagarded as a scientific fact.
Germination Changes - Depending on when the seed is laid down, the germination rate can slow down or speed up, confirmed by laboratory tests of the growth patterns. (Leavengood is now making "super" seeds modified by a similar process...)
Perimeter Stalks - The division of inside to outside is very sharp. (In some circles, bent stalks are found interspersed with standing stalks.)
Crop Selectivity - In the U.K., corn, wheat, carrots, barley. Circles have been found in other environments. A huge "flower of life" was seen in an Oregon dried lakebed. The total length of the lines, 4 inches deep, 18 inches wides with beveled edging, measured 13 miles. After a survey, the lines were bowed out eight inches at the center, duplicating the effects of a point source directly above the design.
Rapid Daylight Appearance - A circle, the Julia Set appeared at Stonehedge in a field in clear view of guards and tourists during a 45 minutes time frame. Consisting of ---circles, each circle with a different pattern of downed plants.
Geometrical theorems - The circle atructure is not random. Precise measurements show that many geometrial relationships can be found in each of the circles. Five new geometrical theorems have been found.
Nitrogen / Nitrate Ratios - The level of nitrates is higher in a circle compared to outside the circle.
Clay crystalization - THe crystaline structure of clay has increased
Time Dilation - Reports of unusual time changes have been made
Electro/mechanical Failures - Almost all electronic equipment brought into a circle will fail due to depleted batteries. Sometimes tractors will stop when driven into a circle
Radiation Anomalies - The presence of radiation with a short half life has been found.
Photographic Anomalies - Balls of light appear in photographs. Some of these have been attributed to reflections from the flash hitting dust particles.
Molten metal imprint - In a shipment of grain staks sent to a laboratory, pieces of metal fell from the stalks during the unpacking . The metal was shaped according to the structure of the plant.
Trilling Noise - A high frequency trilling sound is often heard
Dead Porcupines And Decapitated Dogs - A flattened dad porcupines was found in one circle.
Scared Horses & Howling Dogs - Dogs seem to get excited around circles.
Menstrual Disruption -
Endocrine Effects - THe levels of melatonin, a natural hormone found in the body increase. Melatonin production is inhibited by light ans should only increase during darkness.
From Wikipedia... "Normally, the production of melatonin by the pineal gland is inhibited by light and permitted by darkness. For this reason melatonin has been called "the hormone of darkness". The secretion of melatonin peaks in the middle of the night, and gradually falls during the second half of the night."
Miracle Cures =
Insects Stuck To Crop - In one circles hundreds of insects were found with their wings fuzed to the stalks.
Underground Water - The UK has natural aquifiers
White Substance -
Magnetic substance -
Perpetrators - Non/super-human? This is the subject of extensive speculation. No scientific evidence has been found which would point one way or the other.
Deception - The modern history of crop circles is replete with attempts by various media to deceive and discredit scientists. Haselhoff tells of one time he was asked in an interview if a particular circle could have natural causes, his reply was no, it is too complex. Then he was asked if it could have been man made and he replied that it was possible. When the interview aired, the question asked was could the circle have been man made, and the reply edited in the tape was no, it is too complex, then they panned to the hoaxers laughing.
http://www.cropcirclenews.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=148
They write
Crop Circles : A Field Report of the Howell, Michigan Crop Circle Formation
On July 29-31, 2003, a private scientific research team documented physical evidence revealing that the Howell Township, Livingston County, Michigan crop circle formation was not made by hoaxers.
The team consisted of Jeffrey Wilson, Todd Lemire, and Dr. Charles Lietzau of Michigan, and Roger Sugden of Indiana. Arriving at the field on July 29, 2002, we discovered and photographed the presence of several anomalies that cannot be duplicated by hoaxers. Conclusions
Our research team had at this point in our investigation enough conclusive scientific evidence as well as a body of supporting contextual detail to show that the Howell crop circle formation had not been hoaxed by people using mechanical means, and that the evidence uncovered supports the conclusion that this is an authentic formation. There are other anomalies that were detected in this formation, but until our lab studies are concluded, and we are certain of our findings, we will refrain from reporting those at this time.
Sources
(1a)Website of organization using scientific methods/analysis: BLT RESEARCH TEAM INC. http://www.bltresearch.com/index.html
(2b) The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles: Scientific Research and Urban Legends. (2001) Eltjo H. Haselhoff, Ph.d. Frog Ltd. Berjekey Ca.  (2ba) Dr. Haselhoff is a practicing physicist specializing in optical imaging. quote: "Anyone claiming that all crop circles can be easily explained as the work of human pranksters, or hoaxers as they are usually called, reveals that he does not know what he is talking about."
(2c) Secrets in the Fields: The Science and Mysticism of Crop Circles. (2002) Freddy SIlva Hampton Roads, Charlottesvile VA.  (2ca) Silva has written perhops the most comprehensive book on all aspects of crop circles. Quote:"The astronomer David Darling expresses this elegantly in his Equation of Eternity" 'The conscious mind is crucially involved in establishing what is real. That which reaches our senses is, at best, a confusion of phantasmal energies - not sights, not sounds, or any of the coherant qualities that we project outward onto the physical world. The Universe as we know it is built and experienced entirely within our heads, and until that mental construction takes place, reality must wait in the wings.'"
(2d) The Hypnotic Power of Crop Circles (2004) Bert Janssen. Frontier Publishing, Netherlands ISBN 1-93182-34-7
(2da) Janessen focus on the construction of crop circles, specifically how the geometrical elements hang together. Quote "Crop curckes. One of the biggest mystery of our times. They are obviously not the works of pranksters and practical jokers. They are also not a natural phenomenon. Nature doesn't think. But the thought, whoever or whatever is thinking it, has a very strong resemblance to the way in which we humans think. It is very much as if the phenonmenon is just another part of ourselves. One the one hand we are not responsible for the shapes in the crop, on the other hand we are." (p99)
(Question. A reading of the literature tells us of many acts of deception by the media to fool serious crop circle researchers into declaring a hoaxed circle as authentic. If all crop circles were hoaxed, would this deception by the media be necessary?)
[edit]
The Scientific Conclusion
The search for the truth of crop circles is embedded in controversy, lies and deception thereby smothering our grasp for reality. The implications of a genuine crop circle (all we need is one) are profound, and extraordinary, and deserves, by any measure, a truly scientific investigation.
Science differs from other belief systems in that a scientific hypothesis is tested to determine if in fact it is true. It doesn't matter if the hypothesis is just a guess, what matters if it proves to be correct. This limits science to that which is testable, leaving science with nothing to say about that which is not testable, but what science can say can be considered reliable.
[edit]
Sources
Following are the sources which will be referenced in the article. I am including quotes here to minimize misunderstandings. This is ongoing work and should not be cnsidered complete.
(A) Principle investigator/sources/reference
(1)Internet reference/source
(1a)Website of organization using scientific methods/analysis:
http://www.bltresearch.com/index.html
Quoting directly from the website, this is their introduction:
BLT RESEARCH TEAM INC.
PURPOSE: The BLT Research Team Inc.'s primary focus is crop circle research - the discovery, scientific documentation and evaluation of physical changes induced in plants, soils and other materials at crop circle sites by the energy (or energy system) responsible for creating them and to determine, if possible, from these data the specific nature and source of these energies. Secondly, our intent is to publish these research results in peer-reviewed scientific journals and to disseminate this information to the general public through lectures, mainstream articles and the internet.
(1b)Reports of Analysis
CLAY-MINERAL CRYSTALLIZATION CASE STUDY: 1999 EDMONTON, ALBERTA, CANADA CROP FORMATION http://www.bltresearch.com/xrd.html
They write in their conclusion: "Our present knowledge provides no explanation for these results. It is unlikely that an atmospheric plasma vortex system could account for the changes observed in the clay minerals. The data, however, rule out direct mechanical flattening of the crop circle plants by human beings utilizing planks or boards as an explanation for this event. Control studies carried out by BLT over the last several years have shown that significant node-length increase and expulsion cavities do not occur in crop flattened by boards or planks, human feet or cement rollers, or to crop which has been 100% over-fertilized. And, since either geologic pressure and/or intense heat is required to cause decrease in KI of the clay minerals--and neither can be produced by planks, boards, cement rollers, feet, etc.--this, or a similar mechanical mechanism, must be ruled out. It is our intent to carry out additional plant and soil research in an attempt to replicate the results of this XRD study, if funding can be obtained."
(1ba)LAB REPORT #86 1997 Maryland (USA) Control Study
This study examines the effects of over-fertilization of wheat and subsequent manual flattening throughout the growing season.
(1bb)LAB REPORT #49 July, 1995: E. Meon "Crescents" (UK)
A classic demonstration of node-length increase and expulsion cavity incidence in flattened crop across the formation.
(1bc)LAB REPORT #97 June, 1997: Salem, Oregon (USA)
Node-length increases found in flattened crop and in standing crop outside formation; Beer-Lambert Principle applicable here.
(1bd)LAB REPORT #51 June, 1995: Blueball, Maryland (USA)
Two non-geometrically downed areas with associated light phenomena and compass deviations noted at site; 203% increase in in node-length found
(1be)LAB REPORT #85 July, 1996: Littlebury Green (U.K.)
Node-length increases in both standing and downed crop within formation; increased growth-rate (up to 120%) as compared to controls.
(1bf)LAB REPORT #79 August, 1996: Logan, Utah (USA)
Node-length increases and expulsion cavities found; repressed seedling growth. Exploratory XRD exam of clay-minerals in soils indicates increased crystallinity
(1bg)LAB REPORT #100 August, 1997: Marion, New York (USA)
Linear deposition of magnetic particles in soils, both inside flattened circles and outside flattened areas.
(1bh)LAB REPORT #90 Sept, 1996: Rocanville, Sask. (CANADA)
Linear deposition of magnetic particles in soils along North/South radii only; uniform distribution of particles along other radii
(1bi)LAB REPORT #113 Sept, 1999: Midale, Sask. (CANADA)
Linear deposition of magnetic particles in soils, along all four sampled radii; node-length increases; battery drainage of Geiger Counter in circle.
(1bj)LAB REPORT #121 July, 1997: Assen-Zuid, Holland (NETHERLANDS)
Node-length decreases, germination abnormalities, and a deposited, white silicate substance w/multiple glassy beads in situ
(1bk)LAB REPORT #104 July, 1998: Cherhill, Wiltshire (U.K.)
Increased node-lengths, decreased seed weights & increased seedling growth in standing-plant centers; multiple dead insects adhering to standing plants within circles.
(1bl)LAB REPORT #127 May, 2000: Klein-Kedingshagen (GERMANY)
Node-length increases, expulsion cavities, increased amounts of magnetic material in soils; greatest node-length increase in smallest circles
(1bm)LAB REPORT #122 Sept, 1999: Edmonton, Alberta (CANADA)
Node-length increases (highest in smallest circle), expulsion cavities in all nodes (seen here for the first time), magnetic material in soils
(1bn)LAB REPORT #78 July, 1996: "Julia Set," Stonehenge (U.K.)
Reduced seed weights and evidence of mitochondrial damage; germination abnormalities and clear "spillover" effect into standing crop outside formation
(1c) Published papers
(1ca)Levengood, W.C. & Talbott, Nancy P. (1999) Dispersion of energies in worldwide crop formations Physiologia Plantarum 105:615-624
(1cb)Levengood, W.C. & Burke, John A. (1995) Semi-Molten Meteoric Iron Associated with a Crop Formation Journal of Scientific Exploration 9:2, 191-199
(1cc)Burke, John A. (1998)
"The Physics of Crop Formations" MUFON Journal, October l998, pp. 3-7
(1cd)Levengood, W.C. (1994) Anatomical anomalies in crop formation plants Physiologia Plantarum 92:356-363
(2) Principle Investigator publications
(2aa) Colin Andrews is reqarded as the old man of crop circle research. 2a)Crop Circles: Signs of Contact Colin Andrews (2003) Career Press, New Jersey.  ARTICLE INSERTION
Colin Andrews is one of the senior investigators of the crop circle phenomenon, He has authored two books, one of which is "Crop Circles, Signs of Contact". In 1999, the Rockefeller (sic) family asked Colin to investigate crop circles and report back to them. He did this in 1999 and 2000. His conclusion has become controversial in itself, disappointing to both sides.
Concerning the now famous 80/20 statement, He writes in his book: "Based in our research, I concluded that approximately 80 percent of all the crop circles we investigated in England from 1999 through the year 2000 were manmade. This was one of the most important research findings to date because it cut to the core of what is truly important: the remaining 20 percent of the crop circles showed no sign of human hands." (p154) (2a)Crop Circles: Signs of Contact Colin Andrews (2003) Career Press, New Jersey. 
Help How do I make a reference?
(2b) The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles: Scientific Research and Urban Legends. (2001) Eltjo H. Haselhoff, Ph.d. Frog Ltd. Berjekey Ca.  (2ba) Dr. Haselhoff is a practicing physicist specializing in optical imaging. quote: "Anyone claiming that all crop circles can be easily explained as the work of human pranksters, or hoaxers as they are usually called, reveals that he does not know what he is talking about."
(2c) Secrets in the Fields: The Science and Mysticism of Crop Circles. (2002) Freddy SIlva Hampton Roads, Charlottesvile VA.  (2ca) Silva has written perhops the most comprehensive book on all aspects of crop circles. Quote:"The astronomer David Darling expresses this elegantly in his Equation of Eternity" 'The conscious mind is crucially involved in establishing what is real. That which reaches our senses is, at best, a confusion of phantasmal energies - not sights, not sounds, or any of the coherant qualities that we project outward onto the physical world. The Universe as we know it is built and experienced entirely within our heads, and until that mental construction takes place, reality must wait in the wings.'"
(2d) The Hypnotic Power of Crop Circles (2004) Bert Janssen. Frontier Publishing, Netherlands ISBN 1-93182-34-7
(2da) Janessen focus on the construction of crop circles, specifically how the geometrical elements hang together. Quote "Crop curckes. One of the biggest mystery of our times. They are obviously not the works of pranksters and practical jokers. They are also not a natural phenomenon. Nature doesn't think. But the thought, whoever or whatever is thinking it, has a very strong resemblance to the way in which we humans think. It is very much as if the phenonmenon is just another part of ourselves. One the one hand we are not responsible for the shapes in the crop, on the other hand we are." (p99)
(3) reports outside the pattern
(3a) Oregon Dried lake bed "The Sri Yantra consisted of 13.3 miles of lines each ten inches wide and scored to a depth of three inches in the hardpan." "Ufologist's Don Newman and Alan Decker went to the site on the morning of September 15, 1990 and reported the symbol as being furrowed into the dry lake bed about 3" deep. The area was noticeably missing any signs of tire tracks or foot prints even though their own tire tracks left 1/4" deep marks on the crusty surface of the dry lake bed." http://www.labyrinthina.com/sriyantra.htm
(3b) Australia figure can be seen from satellite photos Tommy Mandel 02:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: working article

message: What makes you think Darkfred, that you can take the source of my edit, and change it around to your source, and then change all the info from my source to your source?  And on top of it, change the quotes around to include a POV not at all found in my source and which does not, according to Hawkins himself, say what you made it look like he was saying? 
Tommy Mandel 06:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you seriously suggesting that we rewrite the entire article on the basis of the opinions of one researcher? Sorry, but that's not how Wikipedia works. Jefffire 08:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Reply to tommys: still misleading? Its a direct quote from the article silly. If you would read the article tommy it appears that the writer was using a paraphrase segue between two seperate statements here. This is rather common in interview transcripts. It is not illegal as you put it to paraphrase. You are simply nit-picking because you can't spin the actual quotes from the article to fit your viewpoints. I would guess that you wouldn't have even added these sections if you had known we could find the original sources. --Darkfred Talk to me 15:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: No tommy, i did not lie, the article does indeed call him a hoaxer, I have posted the scanned article twice now for you to read. When I say nit-picking I am being kind to you. There are other words I could use for your rewriting of quotes to fit your POV. If you keep attacking me for a mistranscribed a punctuation mark, (which was quickly fixed by myself) I will keep mentioning that I was fixing a quote you had rewritten or completely fabricated to begin with. --Darkfred Talk to me 18:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Inappropriate editing

message: Please do not remove references then add the fact template. This has crossed over from being simply POV to actual vandalism. This was a direct quote from the given reference, which cited an exact location in the text. This is so blatant that it escapes any other definition. I do not believe tommysun is a vandal, however he has blanked sections he does not agree with, and fabricated quotes in addition to this. Because of the difficulty of fact checking his additions and depoving them, which I have been attempting to do.  I am finding it difficult to take any of his additions seriously. I do not know if I have enough support to simply revert what he rights, perhaps it should got to RFAr. --Darkfred Talk to me 15:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: How did DARKFRED become the editor of a scientific Wikipedia entry? It is ludicrous. WIKIPEDIA is supposed to be a NEUTRAL POV delivering factual information, not this confused non-sense that ignores science and spends most of the article giving professed liars' personal stories. Come on, get serious. Wikipedia deserves better. Allow a scientific mind to edit this page. 24.168.113.17 03:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Warnings to user Darkfred

message: Much has been made of reversions made without comment. So I'm saying why I reverted this last. 
This was the text I removed, with my comments inserted in small italics:
Scientific analysis
The section, coming as it did between the 'History' and 'Creators' sections, was ill-placed, and gives the reader no lead-in as to why it is there.
An analysis of clay found within a circle was conducted by the BLT research team. Their report can be found on the BLT website 
BLT have not been defined, nor why the reader should consider them an authority.
The title of the report is
CLAY-MINERAL CRYSTALLIZATION CASE STUDY: 1999 EDMONTON, ALBERTA, CANADA CROP FORMATIONhttp://www.bltresearch.com/xrd.html
All of the above text following the section heading could be contained within a single properly formatted and written sentence.
They write in their conclusion: "Our present knowledge provides no explanation for these results. It is unlikely that an atmospheric plasma vortex system could account for the changes observed in the clay minerals. The data, however, rule out direct mechanical flattening of the crop circle plants by human beings utilizing planks or boards as an explanation for this event. Control studies carried out by BLT over the last several years have shown that significant node-length increase and expulsion cavities do not occur in crop flattened by boards or planks, human feet or cement rollers, or to crop which has been 100% over-fertilized. And, since either geologic pressure and/or intense heat is required to cause decrease in KI of the clay minerals--and neither can be produced by planks, boards, cement rollers, feet, etc.--this, or a similar mechanical mechanism, must be ruled out. It is our intent to carry out additional plant and soil research in an attempt to replicate the results of this XRD study, if funding can be obtained."
A copyright violation, and direct paste of an entire paragraph without any attempt at commentary. It moreover contains material (such as BLT's intent to secure future funding) not relevant to the topic under discussion. No attempt has been made to assert that BLT is an authority on the matter, or that their website constitutes a reliable source. The terms KI and XRD have not been defined, nor why they are important. The changes in the soil have not been described, nor has the crop node-length.
If you ask why your edits are constantly being reverted, these are some of the reasons why. --BillC 06:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthermore the referenced data (crop node length testing) is levengood's original research. And as far as tommy has provided sources, unmentioned in any secondary or peer reviewed journals. Clear violation of both WP:RS and WP:OR. I have had an extensive conversation with tommy about this on his user talk. --Darkfred Talk to me 06:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latest reversion 

message: You asked above that the "more neutral" article be used from 1996. However this article is a paraphrase of the original, if we are quoting hawkins we need to use his original quotes as given in 92. However I move that the section be completely deleted, it doesn't add much to the article. --Darkfred Talk to me 14:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not so sure that it is a paraphrase. While it does link back to the 1992 article, the "source" given for the article is Hawkins himself. The 1992 article places an emphasis on "hoaxer" but it is placed there by the author of the article. 
I would like to use the interview of Hawkins by Monte Leach, 
instead, in which he says "I am not supporting the hoaxer theory, I am investigating it."   What Hawkins found would add much to the article, and we have a way to avoid the secondary POV. 
Fred, one must keep a scientists data and that scientist's speculations about the data separate. Just because a scientist has a crazy idea about why something happens does not diminish the validity of what the scientist observed. Tommy Mandel 00:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hawkins article 

message: I am ok with a crop circle investigators section, although I don't know how you would determine the criteria for inclusion. Also the language needs to describe them without asserting scientific credibility. In fact nearly all data we have can be traced back to Nancy Talbott or BLT research, an obviously POV organization. --Darkfred Talk to me 14:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Principle investigators 

message: Even while it was discussed on the talk page that a section heading "=Principle Investigators of Crop Circles= " would be acceptable by Fred, the heading was removed. 
Even while the text below was in the article for some time now, it was modified 
From this -
:::Colin Andrews is one of the senior investigators of the crop circle phenomenon and highly regarded by his peers. He has authored two books, including Crop Circles, Signs of Contact. In 1999, the Rockefeller family asked Colin to investigate crop circles. He did this in 1999 and 2000. His conclusion, he writes in his book: "Based in our research, I concluded that approximately 80 percent of all the crop circles we investigated in England from 1999 through the year 2000 were manmade. This was one of the most important research findings to date because it cut to the core of what is truly important: the remaining 20 percent of the crop circles showed no sign of human hands."   Colin Andrews  Crop Circles: Signs of Contact(2003) Career Press, New Jersey. (p154)  -30-    
to this =
:::In 1999, the Rockefeller family asked Colin Andrews to investigate crop circles.[citation needed] He concluded that approximately 80 percent of all the crop circles he investigated in England from 1999 through the year 2000 were manmade. [6]
This is what they removed -
:::This was one of the most important research findings to date because it cut to the core of what is truly important: the remaining 20 percent of the crop circles showed no sign of human hands." 
At any rate, it is refreshing to discuss the matter in a somewhat reasonable way rather than the previous claims of "Nutty" "lunatic" "mad ravings of a lone POV crusader" Which darkfred seems to think is clever of him. BTW, where is Fred? Tommy Mandel 18:00, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um yes. Thanks for pointing this out. As it happens... it was entirely my fault, I missed a '/'. Oops. Very sorry. Addhoc 00:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Law students should study this situation. It is not what you did that mattered, it was the intent. Lady walks into store. Later she picks up another lady's purse and walks out. Did she steal it? She thought it was hers. She took her purse. I wonder if that is why the archive is missing? 
I added some material to the scientific section, along with Hawkins statement which should make everyone happy.  Let's see what happens next. 
Tommy Mandel 01:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Example of POV Pushing by editors

message: I removed and/or edited two sections:
# The introduction. I included some of the text you added, but removed most of it in its original form. The main reason was I wasn't happy with the writing: "Some say that the crop circles are man made, while other say that they are not man made" is not not good style, and is a repetition of the theme, already well-expressed in the paragraph, that the topic is one of opposing viewpoints. "On the other hand, numerous anomalous observations within some of the crop circles still remain unexplained." I contend that (a) some of the anomalies are insufficiently documented, (b) the sampling methods have been brought into question: Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 19, No. 2, pp. 159–170, 2005 and (c) a strong counter-case has been offered as explanation for others; see, for example: Special Report: Circular Reasoning. In other words, the very existence of anomalistic phenomena is strongly contested, and certainly can't be simply added to the article as if it were not.
# The para on Haselhoff: "... has rigorously investigated the crop circle phenomenon": It is POV to say that his investigations were rigorous. "Haselhoff has investigated the crop circle phenomenon": A repetition of this sentence later in the same paragraph. Approximately two-thirds of this paragraph is a verbatim quotation from Haselhoff pasted into the article, and I consider this excessive.
More on Silva later. I have not yet touched this para. --BillC 10:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There certainly are anomalies. It is the anomalies which are the basis for the controversy/mystery. Again, it is not our job to prove the anomalies one way or the other, it is our job to report that they have been reported. I read that report by a skeptic and was not at all impressed by his reasoning. Especially by his association tactics. Nitpicking about the method of sampling does not invalidate the observations. Why then would a journal publish the data? And the observations are documented by photographs which is objective evidence that anyone can see. Your source discounts the bending by assigning it to the natural growth process, but fails to mention or take into consideration that this process takes 5 to 7 days to be noticeable. Finally, clay crystalization has not been explained or explained away by anyone. I'll take a look at your changes soon.
205.188.117.13 16:02, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Bill, seems you removed everything about the controversy. You say "and is a repetition of the theme, already well-expressed in the paragraph"  But where in the paragraph does it say ANYTHING about opposing viewpoints? You are not  saying that we have to read the entire article to arrive at that conclusion are you? If there is anything noteworthy about crop circles is that they are controversial, so much so that there should be an article in Wikipedia titled "crop circle controversy" Don't you think? 205.188.117.13 16:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK I inserted a revided introduction. What do you think of it now?
PS I looked at Nickles paper again, and am even less impressed, He does not offer any counter-evidence, giving us only counter arguments. For example, he states that balls of light can show up on photographs due to a reflection off a strap, etc. Well, Haselhoff goes into detail about this, actually showing us pictures the flash bouncing off dust in front of the camera. He also shows us the flash bouncing off snow flakes. So this isn't something discovered by the skeptics only. And it doesn't explain the eye witness accounts especiallly that of Sorensen and the hundreds of others.205.188.117.13 23:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Tommy, will you be prepared to accept mediation on this article? --BillC 20:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mediation

message: There is a risk here of missing an extremely important part of the NPOV policy, andone which appears to hev been unilaterally removed, perhaps as part of this particular dispute.  It is this:  "All Wikipedia articles must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), representing all significant views fairly, proportionately and without bias."  In the case of crop circles this means that the dominant view in the scientific (and wider) community, that they are a hoax, must be given most weight, and the article must overall convey this view.  Guy 11:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And you will be able to provide a reputable and verifiable source that science considers the circles a hoax, right? How soon will you have it available? How did you determine that? When I count the papers, it is something like five to one in favor of non-hoaxed circles.
64.12.117.13 15:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the NPOV policy