Talk:Ball (association football)

message: This article needs pictures.--Stranhorox 18:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures

message: Is it possible to get a section on how the valve works? Maybe from "the side"... or someone can point me in the right direction and i'll write it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.15.6.191 (talk) 18:08, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Valve?

message: This page is aready more than just a history. I think it should be moved to Association football balls to allow it to be expanded and information scattered around to be pulled together, here. Bridgeplayer (talk) 13:35, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed page move 

message: The last sentence is very long and incomprehensible, with too many subordinate clauses.
*The result was that the Developed FE model resisted deformation more than the Basic FE model ensuring that the football will continue to develop even in the present, thanks to David Beckham who contributed to this project of the gravity controlling football.
I would try to improve it if I understood what it meant. It also needs some citation on the involvement of Beckham.--Gciriani (talk) 01:11, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Present development last sentence 

message: Perhaps some readers would want to know the size of the ball.  99.199.61.8 (talk) 18:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size of ball? 

message: ..because it was complete nonsense. The truncated icosahedron is an Archimedian solid, not a buckyball, and was neither invented nor discovered by Fuller. Antimatter33 (talk) 14:17, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm don't know the geometry, but what that section is stating is that Fuller created is and is the namesake of a ball design that is/was called a buckyball; it's not trying to express that he invented the shapes. Perhaps the stated shapes are wrong, but there are references for it. The common ball design known as a "buckyball" should be mentioned, even if other sources support a better description of the shape. If it is apocryphal that he create the design, sources should be found to explain that before removal. —Ost (talk) 14:55, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the removal is correct. The Mental Floss source corrected itself - go check. I also found this article which seems to prove the Mental Floss article wrong. Also, Adidas was apparently not the first to use the design. Telstar's Wiki page says that Select Sport were the first to use the shape, just apparently without the colors and not gaining as much popularity as Telstar. Select Sport created it in 1962. Buckminster Fuller's first notable, large geodesic dome was at Expo 67 (like the Wiki page for him says). I'm removing it for now. Mr. Magoo and McBarker (talk) 07:24, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Belated thanks for doing the due diligence to show that it was apocryphal and incorrect. —Ost (talk) 21:56, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed section on "Buckyball" 

message: This page was moved from :association football (ball) to football (association football) with editsummary:
:moved Association football (ball) to Football (association football): this might seem convoluted, but it is in fact the proper name per our naming conventions; the old one had the subject in brackets and the topic outside, which is the wrong ..
The claim that the title "association football (ball)" 'had the subject in brackets and the topic outside' is incorrect. As the then intro stated,
:An association football is a ball used in the game of association football. The ball is usually called a football or soccer ball, according to whether the game is called "football" or "soccer". 
So "association football" was the subject ("An association football is a ball"); the parenthetic "ball" was a category disambiguator ("An association football is a ball"), not, as the editsummary assumed, a topic disambiguator. That is, the disambiguator signals "the ball rather than the sport"; it does not signal "association football rather than rugby".  
The current intro implies that the ball is never called an "association football". This is misleading; perhaps the move editor's confusion arose from never having heard the ball so called.
I accept that "football" is a (much) more common name for the ball than "association football" is. However, the current parenthetic disambiguator is inadequate. In the context of "association football", the word "football" primarily refers not to the ball but to the game. Therefore by rights Football (association football) should link to the game, not the ball. There is nothing in the article title that makes it obvious that it is referring to the ball rather than the game. The article should therefore be moved. As I see it there are these choices:
Strategy                                                     	Title                                                                                                                	Comments
Commonest name + category disambiguator + topic disambiguator	Football (ball used in association football)Football (ball, association football)Football (association football ball)	Not very pretty
Second commonest name + no disambiguator                     	Soccer ball                                                                                                          	"soccer"?! Oh noes!
Third commonest name + topic disambiguator                   	Ball (association football)                                                                                          	"Ball" also has another meaning, as in "long ball", "through ball", etc.
Fourth commonest name + category disambiguator               	Association football (ball)                                                                                          	From the same school of compromise that gave us the page title "association football".
Descriptive title                                            	Association football ball                                                                                            	People might assume/infer that the page-title "association football ball" implies/assumes that this is a/the name of the subject rather than a mere description. And then object that it is not a name of the subject.
Descriptive title that is obviously descriptive              	Ball used in association football                                                                                    	Ah, now. Come off it.
jnestorius(talk) 13:48, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article title 

message: This page is very well written and articulated.  It clearly gives a brief summary for people searching information about the soccer ball without actually having to read the whole thing.  But, these people miss out on very well written and interesting details that the authors have put together in this wikipedia article.  It is very well broken down from section to section with clear straight to the point ideas.  If you go over the past history, wikipedia has done an excellent job of weeding out the "poorer" posts onto the page, and in result, we have a very well written, well organized, and well flowing article of the history of the soccer ball. 
The article starts off by talking about the earlier consistency of the soccer ball and briefly leads you into how it is today.  Then the article leads more into of how the soccer ball had evolved, the issues with the soccer ball, why certain style started needing improvement and how that improvement came about.  It mentions certain issues and failures of certain styles of soccer balls.  Then as stated mentions on how the next form, which is supposed to improve on the last eliminated previous problem.  
The sources are fairly complete and credible seeing as how some of the sources are coming from published articles and the pictures are coming from FIFA, which is the international body of soccer.  Citing that entity demonstrates the credibility of the sources that this article has used.  Some of the sources are actually full articles on each individual soccer ball that is mentioned.  A full article that is published based solely on a particular ball shows that someone who has been cited in the article clearly had done their research for a particular ball.  In my opinion, it has to be concluded that the sources in this article are fairly credible, and even impressive.  
The illustrations are fairly accurate and clear, it seems to be that they are photos of collecters' items that were posted.  My only complaint is that the illustrations only go as far back as 1966.  This complaint is actually being picky, because having images of certain soccer balls as far back as 66' is actually rather impressive, but an enthusiast would obviously like to see images of the soccer ball that is apparently made out of animal bladder.  The difficulty of obtaining this imaging is duly noted as difficult, but would be treat to witness.  As far as images go, 8/10.  
The information as stated in the opening paragraph is acceptably thorough, but not completely and nothing that blows me away.  It seems that there is a bit of a gap in the history of the soccer ball in this article, and that gap is leading me to look elsewhere for answers.  If this gap could be filled, it was greatly increase the experience of the article.  The mentioned gap is between the soccer balls made of animal bladder, to vulcanization leading to the improvement of the soccer balls.  More information and pictures would highly increase the experience of this article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hist406-11Hdoukmaj (talk • contribs) 19:36, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critique of page  

message: I removed most of this material from the Football (ball) article as it was far too in depth for that page. It is interesting material, but belongs on this page.:
===Dimensions===
Law 2 of the game specifies that the ball is an air-filled sphere with a circumference of , a weight of , inflated to a pressure of 0.6 to 1.1 atmospheres () "at sea level", and covered in leather or "other suitable material".  The weight specified for a ball is the dry weight, as older balls often became significantly heavier in the course of a match played in wet weather. The standard ball is a Size 5, although smaller sizes exist: Size 3 is standard for team handball and Size 4 in futsal and other small-field variants. Other sizes are used in underage games or as novelty items.
;Size 1
:These mini-balls are only used for promotional purposes. They are normally made of synthetic material, built up in 32 panels, and they do not exceed  in circumference.
;Size 2
:This size ball is sometimes used in promotional tournaments and during training sessions for children. The same size ball  is used for playing by children under 4. The size 2 association football ball is made of synthetic material, plastic or PVC and it is not bigger than  or heavier than . It is the perfect size ball for practising drills and for improving one's handling skills.
;Size 3
:The size 3 association football balls are used by players under 8 because the balls are light (they do not weigh more than  and fairly small ( in circumference). They are usually made of 32 stitched or glued panels of synthetic materials or PVC. This is also the official size of balls used in handball.
;Size 4
:The size 4 balls are the standard balls for futsal but they may also be used in practices by players between 8 and 12 years old. They are spherical, weighing no more than  and with a maximum circumference of . They are normally made of leather or other suitable materials.
;Size 5
:This is the standard ball size with a circumference  ±  for the FIFA Approved standard (±  for the lesser FIFA Inspected standard)http://footballs.fifa.com/Football-Tests/CIRCUMFERENCE used in official FIFA championships all over the world. It is also the most widely used size of ball by players 12 years old or older. A size 5 association football ball could also be made from polyurethane. It is a less soft material that still retains a good feel and is much more durable. This material is a type of plastic, so it can increase the life of the ball dramatically.Soccer ball sizes: Size 5 soccer ball Retrieved on 22 February 2010
===History===
Spherical footballs were invented shortly before the rules of association football were formalised. In 1855, Charles Goodyear designed and manufactured spherical footballs; these were made entirely of vulcanised rubber.The History of the Soccer Ball: Early Ball History Soccer Ball World. Retrieved on 22 February 2010 In 1863, the English Football Association was formed and the rules of association football were established. However, there was no description on the ball size until 1873 when it was decided that the ball "must be spherical with a circumference of ."
This rule still applies for the association football official matches played today all over the world. The early rules specified a weight of  which was however changed in 1937 to the current accepted weight, . At the same time, the association agreed that the official association football ball must be covered in leather or any approved material.
A direct consequence of establishing the laws of the game by the English Football Association was the mass production of association football balls. The first two companies that started producing association football balls in larger quantities were Mitre and Thomlinson from Glasgow. They produced balls made of leather because they wanted to produce good quality association football balls that will retain their form after use. On the other hand, they preferred stitching the panels since that means better quality and better and longer resistance in what the ball concerns. The best covers which resulted in very expensive association football balls were the ones made from the rump of a cow. By the 20th century, the official balls were produced with rubber bladders which were able to withstand heavier pressure.Soccer ball history Epic sports association football. 22 February 2010
Until the 1950s the official balls used during association football matches had dark colors because of the color of the leather. In 1951 a white ball was first permitted to help spectators see the ball easier with the advent of floodlights. Even if they were used earlier in unofficial games, the official association football balls were permitted only in the mid-20th century.
===Construction===
Most modern footballs are stitched from 32 panels of waterproofed leather or plastic: 12 regular pentagons and 20 regular hexagons. The 32-panel configuration is the spherical polyhedron corresponding to the truncated icosahedron; it is spherical because the faces bulge from the pressure of the air inside. The first 32-panel ball was marketed by Select in the 1950s in Denmark. This configuration became common throughout Continental Europe in the 1960s, and was publicised worldwide by the Adidas Telstar, the official ball of the 1970 World Cup.
The familiar 32-panel football design is sometimes referenced to describe the truncated icosahedron Archimedean solid, carbon buckyballs or the root structure of geodesic domes.
Balls are usually stitched from non-waterproof plastic, similar to the design of the modern volleyballs and Gaelic footballs, and laced to allow access to the internal air bladder.
The official FIFA World Cup football for Germany 2006 matches was the 14-panel Adidas +Teamgeist. It was made in Pakistan and Thailand by Adidas, who have provided the official match balls for the tournament since 1970, and is a "thermally bonded" machine-pressed ball, rather than a traditionally stitched one. Adidas will continue to supply the official football for the 2010 and 2014 World Cups. In 2010, the official match ball Jabulani's design received criticism, with former Arsenal goalkeeper Bob Wilson describing it as a "beach ball" responsible for a rise in errors by goalkeepers and Spanish goalkeeper Iker Casillas also called it too rough for the goalkeepers .
Another ball with an innovative pattern is the 26-panel Mitre PRO 100T.
There are also indoor footballs, which are made of one or two pieces of plastic. Often these have designs printed on them to resemble a stitched leather ball.
===Chip-enabled ball===
The Chip-enabled football was invented by Adidas, the Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated circuits in Erlangen and the company Cairos Technologies. The ball contains an integrated ASIC-Chip and a transmitter for the transfer of data. The chip is suspended in the middle of the football and sends a signal to a receiver at the referee's wrist once the ball passed the outer goal-line.
The first tests were performed in Nuremberg. The stadium is equipped with twelve antennas in light masts and other locations distributed around the arena which collect data that is transmitted from the chip. The antennas are connected to a fiber optic cable which routes the data to servers in order to analyze them. The system was first used during the 2005 FIFA U-17 World Cup in Peru.
===Child labor worries===
Pakistan is the largest manufacturer of footballs on the planet. About 80% of association footballs are made in Pakistan. 75% of these (60% of all world production) are made in the city of Sialkot. Child labor was commonly used in the production of the balls before the 21st century. In 1996, during the European championship, activists lobbied to end the use of child labor. This eventually led to the Atlanta Agreement, which seeks to reform the industry to eliminate the use of child labor in the production of balls. This also led to a centralisation of production, which on the one hand would make it easier for the Independent Monitoring Association for Child Labour (IMAC)—an organisation created to watch over the Atlanta Agreement—to make sure no child labor occurred, on the other hand often forced workers to commute further to get to work. The problem was largely due to highly skilled but uneducated class of labour force who would prefer to have their children learn the craft as opposed to going to school.
--Khajidha (talk) 17:04, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text from Football (ball) 

message: Pakistan is the largest manufacturer of footballs on the planet. About 80% of association footballs are made in Pakistan. 75% of these (60% of all world production) are made in the city of Sialkot. Child labor was commonly used in the production of the balls before the 21st century. In 1996, during the European championship, activists lobbied to end the use of child labor. This eventually led to the Atlanta Agreement, which seeks to reform the industry to eliminate the use of child labor in the production of balls. This also led to a centralisation of production, which on the one hand would make it easier for the Independent Monitoring Association for Child Labour (IMAC)—an organisation created to watch over the Atlanta Agreement—to make sure no child labor occurred, on the other hand often forced workers to commute further to get to work. The problem was largely due to highly skilled but uneducated class of labour force who would prefer to have their children learn the craft as opposed to going to school.
--Khajidha (talk) 17:04, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Child labor worries

message: I was disappointed there wasn't more discussion about the history of the panel layout and construction of the ball. From the World Cup table, it's easy to see that there's a number of designs over the years, but there's very little discussion about the history and rationale behind the various designs, or any discussion about the prevalence of various designs in non-World Cup environments (as the ball used in the World Cup may not be representative of "standard" balls). -- 160.129.138.186 (talk) 21:41, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Panel history? 

message: I am sorry that I flubbed while moving this page.  I did not mean to make the change that I did make and I do not know how to revert my changes.  I am sorry for making dumb changes without thinking.  ParkH.Davis (talk) 05:26, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: . If I have missed any redirects, tag them with . JohnCD (talk) 18:55, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

text: Don't worry. Fortunately, Wikipedia is quite hard to break. JohnCD (talk) 20:10, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: All is well with the universe.  ParkH.Davis (talk) 22:52, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sorry 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The table says of Tango España,
:
But from the image it appears that Tango España has the same 20+12 panels as Telstar and the first Tango. —Tamfang (talk) 02:56, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tango 

message: There are special balls for those surfaces. It should be covered. Setenzatsu.2 (talk) 00:46, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tarmac and concrete surfaces 

message: — Assignment last updated by Lindseybean28 (talk) 21:24, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: College Composition II