Talk:Bosko

message: Can the Bosko cartoon series be considered racial? Does it use ethnical stereotypes in favor of humor? I could expect something like this, so I think it is a good idea to mention whether or not this was part of the Bosko cartoons. --Abdull 14:32, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There are some ethnic stereotypes used, but nothing to the extent of cartoons such as those in the Censored Eleven. Bosko's racialism is already mentioned in the article. --b. Touch 17:13, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Other than his dialect in the first couple cartoons (most prominently in the "pilot" film), I cannot think of one thing in a Bosko cartoon that could be considered a racial stereotype.  For all intents and purposes, Bosko was an "inkblot" character only. Jeff schiller 16:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There are some random blackface gags; e.g., an automobile backfires, and the characters are suddenly in blackface and scream "Mammy!" Also, it's been argued that all these "inkblot" characters beginning with Mickey were actually blackface stereotypes themselves. They resemble Vaudeville performers in blackface, and their personalities (dancing, singing, inherently musical) fit right in with early American stereotypes about African Americans. Both blackface and minstrel show point out this relationship. — BrianSmithson 17:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosko and racism 

message: Should it really re-direct to this? This is an article on the character, and "Talk-Ink Kid" is a separate short film. It would be like "A Wild Hare" re-directing to Bugs Bunny. Same thing with "Bosko and Honey".
:It would be fine for "A Wild Hare" to redirect to Bugs Bunny if that article didn't exist.  Same in this situation.  If appropriate articles are ever written for the shorts in question, then the redirects can be removed.  =)  Powers 00:57, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosko the Talk-Ink Kid 

message: Please offer evidence for your insistence that Harman and Ising were copying Mickey Mouse.
Please offer some citations from a credible evidence and not mere opinions.
Your opinion that Bosko looks like Mickey Mouse is not evidence.. it is merely an opinion.
I. for one, do not think they have any resemblance. They are both cartoon characters drawn in 
style of their times. Terrytoons 00:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Maltin is expressing his opinion, not a fact. Harman and Ising never set out to copy Mickey Mouse or any Disney characters. Their creations are completely different from what Disney was doing at the time and to denigrate their work by calling them copies of Disney is not the NPOV expected from an encyclopedic work. Leonard Maltin is also notorious for many numerous mistakes in his works and for not checking sources and evidence. This even led to a lawsuit for libel in 1998. If you have evidence that Harman and Ising intentionally set out to make Mickey Mouse carbon copies please offer it. A encyclopedia is based on the facts not opinions. The picture on the page clearly shows what Bosko looked like. There is no need to denigrate the work by claiming it is a copy of someone else's work unless you have evidence of that. Terrytoons 01:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "My" evidence is Maltin's book on the subject, and there are other sources around who say that Harman-Ising was trying to capitalize on Mickey's popularity by creating a similar character. If you read closely, Maltin's not necessarily saying that Bosko was a physical carbon copy (pardon the metaphor) of Mickey (although they share the blackface-minstrel look), but that his personality was similar. Meanwhile, what's your evidence to the contrary, other than your own personal opinion? Wahkeenah 01:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Charles Solomon makes the obvious connection as well in his animation history. Unfotunately, I don't have the book here in Japan. Barrier is another one to check; I've got his book in the US as well. Maybe someone reading this will provide the source citations that refute Terrytoons' argument. -- BrianSmithson 05:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also please note that User:Terrytoons is complaining about the alleged lack of credibility of the Maltin citation, while providing no citations of his own. Wahkeenah 05:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no way to prove a negative. I have looked at numerous sources from the time period and no one even asserts that Harman and Ising were attempting to copy Disney. As a matter of fact, when Harman and Ising were producing this cartoon in 1930 and 1931, Walt Disney was a one of the lowest points of his career and the quality of his cartoons during these two years can not be compared with the polished and expensive cartoon being produced by Harman and Ising. The proof that Harman and Ising were drawing characters in their own style can be seen easily by looking at their work prior to the creation of Mickey Mouse. Luckily, much of this earlier work survives, If you take a look at some of the Oswald the Rabbit cartoons they produced for Universal in the late 1920's you will notice that their drawing style is exactly the same, and this was before Mickey Mouse had been created. Please try to get a hold of one of these cartoons, you will be pleasantly surprised at how much they look like their early work at Warner Bros. "SICK CYLINDERS" (1929) is a great example as sequences from this cartoon were later re-used in "Sinkin'in the Bathtub" (1930) and "Bosko's Holiday" 1931. If you don't have access to these cartoons, please look at a poster Harman and Ising drew which has been posted at the following website: http://www.cartoonresearch.com/winkler/homelessposter.jpg   It is evident that the style shown hear is exactly the same as what Harman and Ising would continue to produce in the early 1930's. As a matter of fact, they had a very distinctive style. If you watch the two Cubby the Bear cartoons they produced for Van Bueren you will notice the drastic change that is characteristic of their style. Terrytoons 16:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Here is another good frame: http://www.cartoonresearch.com/winkler/jingles.jpg Notice the lion which would later reappear in the early Merrie Melodies. Also look at: http://www.cartoonresearch.com/winkler/cylinders.jpg  It's a shame these aren't more widely available as they conclusively prove that Harman and Ising had a distinctive style. None of Disney's Mickey output has this same style. The early years for Mickey were dominated by Ub Iwerks' style and when he left, animation reached a low point for Disney (in 1930) until he was able to find good talent. When Harman and Ising left Universal, subsequent Oswald cartoon were poorly drawn and never reached the refinement achieved by Harman and Ising.Terrytoons 16:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are arguing from the standpoint of your own opinion, which is "original research" and is against policy. The various authors cited have studied the whole history, presumably independently, and have reached similar conclusions among themselves. Your argument is based on your own viewpoint, and that's cause for trouble on this website. Wahkeenah 18:51, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, if you checked the history of the talk on this page, I had a similar argument with someone about my assertion that Bosko is drawn as an African-American. It was insufficient for me to just say that, even though it was as obvious as the day is long; I had to find a ciration (specifically, the Maltin book) to justify it. You must do likewise. Wahkeenah 18:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You just can't resist another dig at me, can you?  This is the fourth time you've obstinately refused to refer to me by name; please desist.  Powers T 16:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a deliberate slight. I don't know one user from another, especially if it's from more than a day ago. Wahkeenah 16:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry.  It's just that it seemed to be a pattern.  Powers T 16:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In effect, I was admonishing that user for the same thing you were admonishing me for, and which I did something about, at your insistence, and he needs to do likewise; which is the point I was trying to make in my clumsy way. Wahkeenah 17:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: You might want to stop copy-and-pasting the same text between here and Talk:Foxy (cartoon character).  There are distinct differences between the two arguments (namely that Foxy looks a LOT more like Mickey than Bosko does) that are getting confused because you are using the same text on both pages.  Powers T 16:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Leonard Maltin is NOT an authority on film or animation. The only qualification he has is a B.A. degree in journalism which he received from New York University in 1972. That hardly makes him an expert in animation. His books are riddled with errors and he doesn't even write most of them as he hires a number of editors to do the work for him. I have requested Charles Solomon's book through my library and am looking into his background and will get back to you. Terrytoons 10:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Maltin is a well-known and respected film critic, so that does qualify him to do film criticism. He also seems to be respected by both Disney and WB, as his frequent appearances on the DVD editions of their cartoons shows. I'm glad you've got Solomon's book on order; it's a good one. Try to find Michael Barrier's Hollywood Cartoons: American Animation in Its Golden Age; it's probably the best of the bunch (though not as lavishly illustrated as Solomon's book). I'm really sorry I don't have my books here with me; they're good. — BrianSmithson 12:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I received Michael Barrier's book today. In it he notes that Hugh Harman created Bosko in 1927 and registered for copyright on the character on 3 January 1928. Note that this means Bosko was created a a year before before Mickey Mouse. I am updating the article using this information and also adding the reference.Terrytoons 23:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's quite interesting. If Bosko predated Mickey, and was registered as a black boy, it just reinforces the idea that these early characters were blackface stereotypes. -- BrianSmithson 04:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mickey Mouse Allegation not NPOV 

message: Honestly, why do we need 8 notes for 3 pages of 1 book? I personally think 1 would suffice, but even 3 is better than 8. byeee 15:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right; they could certainly be compressed using the Reference, p. 3. format. Do you know how to do these? I'm too busy to take care of this myself at the moment. — Brian (talk) 22:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes (Sources) 

message: Bosko, like Mickey, got his personality from the blackface characters
Is there any real connection between blackface stereotypes and mickey? Citation needed for this part.--Martianmister (talk) 14:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mickey? 

message: In the third paragraph, the article talks about a short made in 1929 and refers to evidence that Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck already existed. This is just flat impossible. Someone should do the research to correct this and straighten out the timeline.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Halfelven (talk • contribs) 01:17, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impossible Timeline 

message: In the 90s, Honey & Bosko were redesigned to look like the Animaniacs Warner Brothers & given a special on Tiny Toon Adventures.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.118.100 (talk) 10:13, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tiny Toons. 

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thread_title: File:Hold Anything.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Is there a way we can respectfully expand this page to include a section on the later Bosko cartoons from the MGM library? I think we should acknowledge Mammy Two Shoes's role in the last three cartoons, and include a few pictures, to help differentiate original Bosko from the later one.
:I did it! Don't worry! Daffy Duck 555 (talk) 17:06, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Color Bosko 

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replies: text: Don’t do that Dogmanfan12345678910 (talk) 07:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

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message: It's stated that Bosko is a human. but given his nose and hairs that come around his eyes, it is more likely a monkey. Aminabzz (talk) 22:22, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Dogmanfan12345678910 (talk) 07:37, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: omg you’re right Dogmanfan12345678910 (talk) 07:37, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Species