Talk:Zigzag River

message: I added the reqphoto parameter to the template even though the article has a photo and a map. It would be nice to have at least one recent high-quality photo of the river. Finetooth (talk) 03:07, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Photos

message: I'm removing the sentence that says, "The Zigzag River is rated as class IV whitewater and has a gradient (relief ratio) of 200 feet per mile (38 m/km).[5][6]". The cited source to the American Whitewater page is mirrored in Soggy Sneakers by Pete Giordano, but it refers to the run from McNeil Campground to Zigzag on the Sandy River, not the Zigzag River. The gradient for the Zigzag River is 7,113 feet (the source elevation) minus 1,375 feet (the mouth elevation), or 5,738 feet, divided by 12 (the approximate length of the river) = about 475 feet per mile. This is similar to the gradient of Muddy Fork, which drains the Sandy Glacier. Finetooth (talk) 05:02, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty sure the whitewater enthusiasts page doesn't describe the gradient for the whole river, but just the portion they run, so it would exclude waterfalls.  I don't recall whether I sanity tested this one or not, but other places where I've cited them, the topomap agrees pretty well to their number.  —EncMstr (talk) 07:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: They were the right numbers but the wrong river. Two whitewater runs end at Zigzag. I used the same source (American Whitewater) but replaced the Sandy numbers with the Zigzag numbers. Do you think I should stick to "gradient" rather than using "relief ratio"? The latter has a nice explanation to link to, but maybe it's too technical, a form of jargon. Finetooth (talk) 17:33, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've done a fair amount of whitewater and I've rarely heard relief ratio.  At least in the western U.S., grade (slope) is the most common un-improvised term.  On the bits I checked out in Austria, France, and Germany, they used either the equivalent of grade/gradient, or something else ad hoc (how much the river drops per km).  —EncMstr (talk) 19:11, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Those both sound good, and I've changed the language accordingly. I'll do the same to Muddy Fork (Oregon) and Little Sandy River (Oregon), which are the only other places I recall using "relief ratio". I'm wondering where the data for the river flow came from in the Zigzag article. I usually use a USGS gauge page or a City of Portland page or something similar for discharge data, but for some streams I can't find any RS for the river flows. Finetooth (talk) 21:02, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good.  I may have added the flow information from the whitewater article.  Those were my early days editing, and wasn't so careful with cites then.  —EncMstr (talk) 21:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Relief ratio

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thread_title:  External links modified