Talk:Norodom Sihanouk

message: Although I'm not aware of all the subtlties myself, I do know that throughout Cambodian history it has been a fairly common occurance to have more than one king at a time. Sometimes there was a Great King with other kings or sub-king sort of people, close relations usually, to have charge over specific areas. This tradition of a Grand king and lesser king may be similar to what exists now with Sihanouk and Sihamoni. It is certain though that at Sihamoni's blessing and investiture as king he was never actually crowned or enthroned in the traditional Khmer way. NguyenHue 02:20, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  just two cents 

message: His title right now is Samdech Euv (Father King). Though it's not the full, entire, formal version of his title. It's just what people of Cambodia refer to him now.
--Dara 02:03, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: Does anybody else see any POV issues here.  I've just read through the entire article.  Upon first reading, it seems very skewed towards giving an overly positive view of Sihanouk.  For example the last paragraph talks about a "lifetime of fighting for independance for Cambodia".  I've done a fair amount of study and concur with many who believe that Sihanouk is a very shrewd politician but overall a very inept leader.  It seems he has spent a lifetime fighting to make sure that he gets/keeps power.  The article puts a postivie slant on every area of Sihanouk's life and mentions nothing about Sihanouk's many, many failures.  --WilliamThweatt 22:53, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Make any changes that you feel are justified, and NPOV. However, let's keep some sense of proportion: the failures of Sihanouk are nothing in comparison with the horrors of the Khmer Rouge. Also, perhpas Sihanouk has "spent a lifetime fighting to make sure that he gets/keeps power", but so have Roosevelt or Churchil in their own countries. Nothing particularly special about it. Finally, most Cambodians remember fondly Sihanouk's regime (at least those old enough to have lived before 1970), a time of relative peace and prosperity compared to what followed after 1970, so his leadership skills must not have been so totally bad after all. I am not a Sihanouk's apologist, but just hopping we avoid the extremes of presenting Sihanouk as either a perfect leader, or a real-evil-not-yet-uncovered. PS: I wrote only the linguistic/etymology part of this article, nothing else. Hardouin 13:38, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree about the sense of proportion.  A politician is, afterall, just a politician no matter what country you look at.  I was in no way saying that Sihanouk was "evil", as you put it.  I'm just saying this article seems overly positive toward him.  I'm sure that after the horrors of the Khmer Rouge, it's easy to look back to the "good-ole-days" when Sihanouk reigned with nostalgia.  However, his independent reign lasted from the early '50's to 1970, just over 15 years.  While this may have been a time of relative peace and prosperity (key word being "relative"), Sihanouk probably had very little to do with it.  He writes in his own memoirs that he was not concerned about affairs of state and spent this time carousing after women and obsessing over his own movie production company, while various factions (Son Ngoc Thanh, the Khmer Rouge, etc) manuevered to overthrow him.  At best it can be said that Sihanouk was coasting on the foundations and bureaucracy that the French laid down and it was inevitable that he would run them into the ground and loose his country.  Since 1970, he continues to constantly switch allegiances to which ever side will allow him to keep a public face.  As I said earlier, a very shrewd politician, but overall, an inept leader.  Some good sources are his own memoirs, David Chandler's A History of Cambodia and Milton Osborne's Sihanouk.--WilliamThweatt 23:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

text: It wasn't just since 1970 that he switched allegiances. He has done that during his entire public life. During the "good-ole-days" he would tack back and forth between left and right politicians at home...and the communists and non-communist blocks overseas. He preserved his own position by playing everyone inside and outside cambodia off against each other. The guy is a master manipulator and his memoirs should not be trusted at face value. His political "system" could only last as long as he could balance the left against the right. As to "peace and prosperity", it was never what it seemed. Many people's impression of the country was based on what they saw (the capital) rather than the country as a whole. 205.188.116.199 06:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV issues??? 

message: "Sihanouk continued to live in luxury in Cambodia after he resigned. He was provided with an air-conditioned residence and complained in his memoirs from the period about running low on rum for his bananes flambles desert."  That second sentence adds nothing to the article, and actually sounds a bit silly.  So his luxury residence was air-conditioned - so what?  He ran out of rum for desert - come on.... this is an encyclopedia.  Silly details like this have no part in a biographical article. Patiwat 01:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: though Wikifans want very much for this to be an encyclopedia... your point suggests that in fact it is something other.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.79.62.19 (talk) 06:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure that to Americans living in the South of the USA 'air-conditioning' is the height of opulence and something only the most Neronic dictators and Kings luxuriate in, symbolizing their selfish anti-democratic decadence ! Claverhouse (talk) 17:17, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silly details 

message: I am wondering about his political position. Seems to alternate between pro and anti-left (China?). He gets first installed, then deposed by the Khmer Rouge, and, after being re-installed as king in 1993, seeks medical treatment in Beijing and takes up residence in Pyongyang. Both China and North Korea didn't strike me as very monarchy-supporting, generally speaking. Maybe someone could elaborate on his (many?) political positions over time? -- megA (talk) 19:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sihanouk was originally appointed ruler of Cambodia by Vichy France in 1941, presumably because they thought he was safely pro-French. The only time it mattered what his political views were was when he was in power in the 1960s. He refused aid from the U.S. from 1962 on, although this had accounted for 15 percent of Cambodia's budget. He thought that if he was anti-American enough, the communists wouldn't bother him. He turned to the Non-Aligned Movement, especially France and India, and the army confiscated massive amounts of rice from the peasants. But these tactics could not replace the refused aid. As the condition of the economy and the army deteriorated, the country became low-hanging fruit. China broke with Russia and Vietnam in 1968 and began sponsoring the Khmer Rouge. After Sihanouk went into exile in 1970, his true colors became clear: He was for sale to whoever offered him the nicest palace. Kauffner (talk) 04:31, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political Views? 

message: Rulers.org gives him 10 separate terms as prime minister, but we say at the beginning that he had only two. john k (talk) 05:36, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  number of times prime minister 

message: If each group of (8, 10, 28), (16, 20, 24) and (17, 21) indicates the same person, I think they should be properly labeled. --128.122.53.15 (talk) 23:29, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancestry 

message: This is a minor matter, but the article Order of the Queen of Sheba says that it was for ladies. J S Ayer (talk) 16:17, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign Honours 

message: Hello, I noticed there was a gap in the former states of Cambodia so I created Kingdom of Cambodia (1975-76); any help in expanding this stub would be much appreciated. Cheers, walk victor falk talk 04:42, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with stub: [[Kingdom of Cambodia (1975-76)]] 

message: A lot of Cambodia-related biographies, especially for royalty, have excessive translations for titles. I have removed part of it here in a recent edit. This article is not for teaching what every single word in his title means. The problem with this also is that they are literal translations too. I think Wikipedia provides the name in the native language in parenthesis for a reason, that is so that it can be looked up in a dictionary or Wiktionary, if one wanted to learn more about that language. --Dara (talk) 06:12, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the Title Section 

message: * Hi, I have removed the following paragraph:
"On November 28, 2012, King Father Norodom Sihanouk was anointed by Royal Decree of HM King Norodom Sihamoni with the title Preah Karuna Preah Norodom Sihanouk Preah Borom Ratanakkot ( (literally meaning The King who lies in the Diamond Urn)."
I tried to Google search the title in Khmer and English, but no results from credible news agencies (AKP, Kohsanteap, Phnompenhpost etc) turned up on the exact term and date reporting the news. Removing this sentence as per Wiki guideline Wikipedia:Citing sources. Would appreciate if any editors can find and provide URL link, book or other reference material to this. Mr Tan (talk) 05:23, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe this source should be sufficient. Khmer kings traditionally have up to three different names at different times: 1) their birth name (from the time they're born until they take the throne), then 2) they may take a Regnal name upon being crowned king, then 3) a Posthumous name is often bestowed after their death by the succeeding king.  Sihanouk's posthumous name is ព្រះបរមរតនកោដ្ឋ. If you want more sources you can google "ព្រះបរមរតនកោដ្ឋ" and narrow the results to November-December 2012 like this.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 05:55, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I"ll re-include this in the "Titles" section. I found a Cambodian government source here . Mr Tan (talk) 10:03, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed content

message: Hi, I have removed the list of material from "Works". I am re-pasting the content here below.
I do not feel it would be appropriate to chunk in the whole list of such works into the main article, and I would feel such content would be more appropriate for other sister projects such as Wikisource or Wikibooks. Alternatively, a specialised list article maybe created to accomodate the content below, taking "List of events during the Silver Jubilee of Elizabeth II" as an example. My take is that the content structure of Elizabeth II would be a good example, and all list materials should be created in seperate "list" articles except for references and used book materials in the Bibliography section. One may also refer to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout as general guideline. Mr Tan (talk) 10:03, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Traced the article history, this  removed section below was added around December 2011. Mr Tan (talk) 10:31, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Works section

message: Hi, just to inform you, I have removed the categories pertaining to Sihanouk's awards, as I have shifted them to List of honours received by Norodom Sihanouk. There was a category clutter of awards in the past and I created that list page. If you can find any awards concerning Sihanouk, feel free to add them to the list page. (For your reference see the state of clutter in old version at ) Thanks. 
(Also posted to User_talk:1982vdven#Norodom_Sihanouk) Mr Tan (talk) 11:25, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Awards (in category)

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I struggle to understand how did this become a good article by Wikipedia's standards.
Can somebody fix this? --193.34.160.162 (talk) 05:16, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The first paragraph literally repeats the second and third paragraphs of the article 

message: In the very first introduction to this person, how should we present him? The current lede paragraph is
Although I'm not sure, I would think that his composing and filmmaking career is distinctly secondary to his political career, certainly to the wider world outside Cambodia, which is by far most of our readership (in Cambodia, I don't know). It's what he's famous for, and what's most important about him -- by far. (He did have an influence as a patron of the Cambodian pop music movement and Cambodian film industry) So I was suggesting a lede which dispensed with the artistic accomplishments (in the lede paragraph; they can be mentioned later in the article, and in fact there's a whole long section about them). Something like this (although the exact wording isn't important):
An editor who was favoring the existing version averred that "Sihanouk is famous for 'fiddling while Rome burns', some the biggest criticisms against him involve how he was obsessed with the 'artsy stuff' and neglected his responsibilities as King/Prince leading to disaster in the following decades. It's a very relevant part of his biography."
So but the lede doesn't indicate that (the criticism), in fact I don't think its mentioned anywhere in the article. Anyway, colleagues, any thoughts on what a good lede paragraph would be? Herostratus (talk) 09:54, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure the 'fiddling while Rome burns' criticisms were ever that significant; Sihanouk was more often accused of political micromanagement than of neglect. Svejk74 (talk) 10:54, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  First sentence of lede 

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