Talk:Hand Grenade (cocktail)

message: From the writeup: it seems to be made of various lacquers and liquors.
:Really?  lacquer is usually poisonous... --RT, 20:29, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why I just changed it.
The recipe posted on this page was inaccurate.  The Hand Grenade recipe is a trade secret and the drink is made from a commercially-prepared powdered mix.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 801greg (talk • contribs) 15:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Recipes

message: I agree that this article does sound like commercial spam. However, whomever prodded this page for deletion apparently was not aware that the entire series of cocktail-related articles are undergoing evaluation, improvement, and/or merging into the main articles. Deleting pages while we are still working on them severely hinders our progress. If deleted, it requires us to request the deleted information back from an administrator so that we can cull the useful bits out of the original article. Once the project is finished with this cleanup, we will be nominating many articles for deletion. This article reads like a commercial for one particular group of bars in New Orleans. If only four bars in the world serve this drink, the drink probably is not notable enough to be listed in Wikipedia. That is why the article appears to be commercial spam (an advertisement for a unique drink placed here by the proprietors of the four bars). If more information cannot be located to assert the notability of this drink (perhaps a reference to it in a major newspaper or magazine outside the New Orleans area, a reference to the drink in a large, unbiased bartender's manual, etc.) and otherwise improve this article, it probably will be one that will be deleted at that time. Thanks. --Willscrlt 11:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A quick Google search shows that recipes are available online, and the article makes open reference to them, as well as to the unprotectability of the recipe. I'd clear out the lines about its popularity and the cultural references (unless the latter can be speedily verified), but keep the article as a whole. --65.96.181.58 17:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember that they did used to make a big deal out of the proprietary/secret nature of the recipe, and the reward they were offering if you reported someone passing off another drink as a Hand Grenade. Also, on Bourbon Street, you would typically see a lot of people drinking those things out of those funky-shaped neon-colored containers. That was before Hurricane Katrina; I wonder if they are still around. Captain Zyrain 16:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Man, only a $250 reward? That seems kinda chintzy. http://www.tropicalisle.com/shop/oneandonly.html Captain Zyrain 16:43, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Prod and Spam Claim

message: …and why I removed it.
At the request of Will Beback, I took another look at this article to either nominate it for deletion or track down some notable references. Finding references in several places, the most notable being GQ; tours offered through Gray Line and sold through Expedia, Travelocity, and other sites that indicate that this drink is a destination worthy of international attention; and still seeing lots of knock-off recipes on the Web, it's pretty obvious that this drink is rather notable outside of the French Quarter, and quite notable within.
I based a lot of the entirely rewritten article off of a court ruling, since the text is in the public domain and, in theory at least, entirely factual. Some of the wording in the ruling still had a promotional tone to it, and I tried to neuter that as much as possible, relating the facts beneath the hyperbole. I, of course, mixed in as much other reliable third-party information as I could find in one afternoon's searching. A lot of blog entries and other less reliable sources mention the cocktail, but I avoided referencing any of them that did not provide a lot of solid facts that aligned with the more trusted sources.
Ironically, a couple of days later, someone tagged it with: . This is despite the fact that I put considerable work into removing marketing hyperbole, included negative critiques as well as positive ones, and have multiple reliable sources. The fact that the drink is "a registered trademark and not a universal application" is actually a key point about the drink. While the recipe cannot be trademarked, and there is nothing illegal about making your own drink with a similar taste, smell, and color, anyone who tries to pass it off as a "hand grenade" or markets it in a fashion that is confusingly similar to Tropical Isle's trademarked packaging, would be in violation of trademark infringement. That's a key point about the drink. It's not a marketing gimmick any more than it would be for Coca Cola. There is no "universal application" of the name Hand Grenade for such a drink (at least not anywhere that the trademark is in effect). I have therefore removed the  tag and left the poster a note.
If there is a feeling that this article still reads too much like an advertisement, then please fix it. Don't just tag it and run. That's non-productive, especially when great care has been taken by an experienced editor to avoid that very impression and to keep the article balanced and informative. OR, at the very least, discuss here why you think it still sounds like an ad, and offer suggestions for how to fix it. If through discourse there develops a concern that this article cannot be written in a way that is in line with Wikipedia's guidelines and policies, then RFD it and see what a wider audience thinks. Thanks. —Willscrlt ( “Talk” ) 19:39, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: {{tl|Advert}} tagged after complete rewrite…

message: Tropical Isle in New Orleans is willing to offer factual information to help improve this quality of this page.  There are several errors on the page (such as where the Hand Grenade is sold & the locations/names of the establishments) and we'd love to work with you to provide you with the correct (up to date) information.
We recently relaunched the company website that has the correct information on it if you would like to reference that.  There are several registered marks, trade marks and copyrights involving The Hand Grenade and Tropical Isle and we can help with that information too.
We also have official photos if you would like to utilize those as well.
TropicalIsle (talk) 18:02, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  History/Information From Owners 

message: Several sources in this article are used to support "information" of dubious importance/notability. Yes, the court case filed by the trademark owner tells us where we can buy the SuperHappyFunBall(TM). The fact that no independent reliable sources discuss the names of those locations is a pretty good indication that this is not basic information that the average, general interest reader is interested in. The locations are of interest to: (1) tourists going to NOLA who have become convinced by this article and other soures that the SuperHappyFunBall(TM) is to NOLA what the Statue of Liberty is to NYC and (2) the owners of the trademark on the SuperHappyFunBall(TM) who want those tourists to stop by and drop some money.
Via the lawsuit (written by/for the owners of the trademark), we are treated to a handy little description of the collectable, plastic whatsit, available free with your purchase of the SuperHappyFunBall(TM). Did we mention the high alcohol content of the SuperHappyFunBall(TM)? You bet! Can I get a discounted refill of my plastic whatsit at one of the precious and few exclusive locations where I can buy an official SuperHappyFunBall(TM)? Yes! While supplies last! Hurry down and by your SuperHappyFunBall(TM) in the free, collectable plastic whatsit today!
We are also told about the kits, with listed ingredients, to make your own official SuperHappyFunBall(TM) at home (sourced to the lawsuit) though claims sourced to the trademark owner's website details how they are going to the ends of the Earth to keep that information secret, with lawsuits, blood oaths, pinkie promises, etc. Oh, and a $250 bounty for information leading to arrest, conviction, drum head trial, etc. of anyone... violating their trademark (that's the name, what's in it is, apparently, not such a secret after all).
Did we mention how amazingly popular they are? Yes, of course, they are "in great demand" and "are commonly associated with Mardi Gras, and they are consumed in large amounts during that time." The source for this? The first part is in the lawsuit. That last part is unsourced.
Our next source is an archived page from "Uncoached", which seems to be a blog.
Next are the tight controls on the sale of the mix, similar to the restrictions on buying fabric with Disney characters on it at JoAnn fabrics, it seems. The source is an archived copy of a press release, another primary source.
Next is a list of all of the SuperHappyFunBall(TM) merchandise you can buy, sourced -- again -- to the lawsuit.
Finally, we have a trivial use in popular culture which, we are told, show that the SuperHappyFunBall(TM) has "entered popular culture". The source, of course, is the lyrics.
I'm marking all of these as needing better sources. I'll let it sit for a bit to see if anyone wants to clean it up. If not, I'll come back and clean it up myself. - SummerPhDv2.0 03:25, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with almost everything you said. This article has been cleaned up, then corrupted by the bar owners, then cleaned up, and it's still a mess. I removed all the inline templates that you added, not because I disagree, but because they make the article less readable and I don't think they help. We probably need some maintenance template at the top of the article but I'm not sure which one to use. I'm going to put in Template:Cleanup just so we have something to direct editors to this discussion. I earlier removed a MOS template, which didn't seem to fit. Kendall-K1 (talk) 04:17, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

text: I just took one small swing at it with my editor's machete. Feel free to help. Kendall-K1 (talk) 04:30, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better source needed