Talk:Empire State Express

message: Please put FACTS on this page and not US nationalist propaganda. Most of the claims of the performance of this train are not believed outside the USA. But they have been presented here as truth. Oxyman 00:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Facts please

message: The inline citation for the 112.5 MPH record is for a page which is not specialized on the subject and simply mentions it. Before reading this article I had read this onewhich thoroughly refutes this claim and many others. Therefore, I honestly think the 112.5 MPH should be mentioned as what it is: An unconfirmed (or, more strictly, proved wrong) popular belief that justifies its fame. Keep in mind it took 30 years to equal that speed with accurate measurings. What do you think?--Ruiz de Elvira (talk) 21:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A quick search for other documentation on this speed record claim (Google search for "'Empire State Express' record") comes up with this link: GREAT SPEED Off THE CENTRAL.; Empire State Express Engine Travels at the Rate of 112 1-2 Miles an Hour. (New York Times; May 12, 1893).  I've added the ref to the article, and I'll see if I can find any further documentation in my reference library. Slambo (Speak) 22:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Refutation of Speed Record 

message: The article quoted and referenced at http://www.co.genesee.ny.us/dpt/historian/ese999.html is full of spurious information. In particular the technical information about the loco, where it is claimed that:
The construction of this 37 feet long engine was by hand with chisels and hammers...
This is nonsense. By the time 999 was built extensive use was made of machine tools in locomotive workshops - the NYC was an enthusiastic adopter of machine tools to speed up production and lower costs. In reality the use of hammers and chisels would be limited to fitting and fettling the engine  once the major components were completed and the engine was being erected. But to state that major components such as the boiler, frames, cylinders and wheels were made by hand indicates that the author of the article knows nothing of contemporary US steam loco building practice and methods.
"and was the first of its kind to have brakes applied to the front trucks"
Again, this is nonsense. At a pinch, it may have been the first NYC 4-4-0 to have brakes on the pony truck, but that's about it. 
The overall impression this article gives is that it's a puff piece, intended to make the locals of Genesee county feel good about their history. It doesn't present as a reliable source to an informed reader.
As for the claim that 999 attained 112mph, I'd say anyone familiar with 19th century steam loco design and practice would just smile and shake their heads at that. It's interesting that the only people who believe this are those without any background in, or experience with, operating steam. Leaving aside the arguments about the accuracy of the timing, the design and characteristics of the loco are all the evidence needed to refute the claim.
And while we're at it, the NY Times is only as reliable as the reporters who filed the story on the day, and since none of them were experienced in train timing, the story should be treated with great skepticism.
Dullsteamer (talk) 14:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spurious information about NYC 999