Talk:Malaysia/Archive 3

message: The last sentence of the lead section says: "Nonetheless, Malaysia is considered to be a model of racial harmony." The sentence was added by me (see diff), and it got removed a quite number of times for two months.I am quite tired of this "racial harmony" revert war. Any comments? --Joshua Chiew 15:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Leave the sentence out. First, its hard to prove anyway unless you can provide an external (and respected) citation that says exactly that (got to stick to WP:V policies). Secondly, there is as much evidence to disprove such a claim (starting with the May 13 incident and later). Without strong verified support to back up such a claim, it will be regarded as non-neutral point of view and reverted. And rightly so, I must add. --Epanterias amplexus 18:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

text: It's more about illegal construction rather than religious intolerance. A mosque also has been demolished due to no documentation . __earth (Talk) 13:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Hindu temple was more than 100 years old (It was builded built in colonial times). There are not many more than 100 year old buildings with proper documentation. And why was it destroyed after all this time? To me it seems a case of growing intolerance. After more than 100 years you expect some kind of implicite legalisation. And did the destruction of the Mosque increase the harmony? 62.58.72.211 15:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. the mosque destruction does not increase harmony. But it's important to differentiate the cause. Illegal construction and religious intolerance are two different issues. Besides, the authority is providing new site for the temple. Nonetheless, unless the "harmony" sentence is cited, it's better to leave it out. __earth (Talk) 15:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Malaysia a model of racial hormony? NO...i totally disagree, there's no evidence that support the  'non-neutral point of view', beside I am also a Malaysian and had experienced something that is not 'racial harmony' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.50.172.148 (talk) 12:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

text: You think, I think, they think... So, what is new? __earth (Talk) 11:25, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  i find the quota restriction in education and other racial policy disturbing for a "model country"... being harmonious is one thing, but i doubt it qualify as the best nor a model for others to emulate. Akinkhoo 19:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Model of racial harmony" 

message: In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Southeastern Asia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Southeastern Asia whose scope would include Malaysia. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't it better to be called Southeast Asia? It is very rare to use Southeastern Asia.Zack2007 16:52, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Only used that phrase because that's the UN's designation of the area. If and when the project takes off, I agree Southeast Asia is probably the more standard usage, and that probably will be what the project is officially called. Badbilltucker 18:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed WikiProject 

message: How is East Malaysia linked to Peninsular Malaysia? There are more than 600Km of sea between them, and I'm pretty sure that air transport cannot be afforded... Are there any ferry boats? Cheers
: Cheers. Well, they used to be a ferry link between the two by the Feri Malaysia service in the 80s from Port Klang in the west coast and Kuantan in the east coast to Sabah and Sarawak. Then the company went bust. Now the only option is by air. First through Malaysia Airlines then by the budget airline Air Asia. I believe that most air traffic now are through the Air Asia network due to the routes rationalization and cheaper fares most of the time. --Bukhrin 07:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your kind answer, Mr. Bukhrin! I cannot tell actually wether this is a problem or a gift to Malaysia: the isolation must keep people from Borneo in Borneo. What I know from Malaysia is that the continental part is very rich like an "Asian Tiger"; whereas poor Borneo relies mainly on exportation of raw materials. In my country, Brazil, as well as in many other countries, historically people from poor regions go to the wealthier ones by land; in our case, sometimes even in the most precarious lorries, the cheapest way of getting from one place to another. Well, I'm sure that although getting Malaysians together is important for national integrity, it may represent a problem for wealthy Peninsular Malaysia as unqualificated people would migrate to Kuala Lumpur and eventually get unnemployed. So here are a few more questions: Is there a great inequalty between these parts of the country that would justify my thoughts? Are "Borneans" able to afford plane tickets and migrate in a large scale? Or would they rather stay in the island? I'm asking that because my country suffers from an enormous social inequalty, so I could never imagine how such a large geographic separation like that would work out! Cheers! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.58.225.237 (talk) 00:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like suggest that if you ask at Reference desk, you will get better answers. Besides, a talk page is supposed to use to discuss how to improve the article, not to ask for information or personal opinions (see WP:NOT). Lastly, remember to sign your posts on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~). Hope this helps. --Joshua Chiew 01:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Mr 201.58.225.237, though Joshua is right, I would like to share the fact that Malaysia is a federation. The Bornean Malaysian states have considerable power on immigration, not the federal government, per Schedule 9 of the Constitution. Talking about inequity, Malaysian Gini Coefficient, the measure of inequity is about 0.4++. If you want to compare inequity between Malaysia and Brazil, you might want to find Malaysian and Brazilian Gini coefficients. __earth (Talk) 03:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Mr. Joshua Chiew and Mr. Earth, thank you for your answers. I admit that I am wrong by using this page for these purposes, but it is more unlikely of being answered in the reference desk. I think that the information I seek is very important, since Malaysia has an enormous gap between two considerable pieces of land and population, and there is absolutely nothing about this subject on the Malaysia-related english articles. Actually I was planning to delete this topic when I got answered, but in some way, this is a debate about its content. I took my time to check the GINI indexes and although Malaysia has more income equalty than Brazil, it still is a rather considerable GINI index, so I still cannot imagine how Malaysia could actually work out with such an unique geography, even with separate federations. I do not intend to compare our countries though, I just used mine as an example. I am very sorry if I caused this impression; as a matter of the fact comparing Brazil to Malaysia would be a complete waste of time since our country is sunked in political corruption and has very little economic growth, while Malaysia is one of the envies of the world. Cheers! :) 201.78.13.7 19:45, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Malaysian Cannot afford air travel from the east to the peninsular? No, I disagree...domestic travel between the two are available and is considered as reasonable. Beside, Malaysia is no 'weak 3rd world country' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.50.172.148 (talk) 12:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: There is currently a buildup of over 750 ambiguous links at the Malaysian disambiguation page. This is an extremely large number - actually, it is roughly double the largest number of ambiguous links of any other page on the English Wikipedia. Fixing the links requires the editor to distinguish between links that are intended to refer to Malay people from links that are intended to refer to the person's nationality or an aspect of the Malaysian nation (which should be generally be directed to this page). Can some editors who have a good understanding of the human geography of the region volunteer to correct the links? Dekimasu 05:55, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Many of those links were placed by Baryonic Being  on 24 Dec . Many of the links are irrelevant and unnecessary. If someone knows how to do it, can they revert to the earlier ref list before Baryonic Being changed it. Cavingliz 13:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you may have misunderstood me. It isn't the references section of Malaysia that has a problem, it is the incoming Wikilinks at Malaysian - what you see if you click "What links here". I believe all that User:Baryonic Being did was move a tag from the top of the Malaysia page to the bottom. Dekimasu 13:44, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, sorry, I got it wrong. I was refering to Malaysia page, not Malaysian. On the Malaysia page, Baryonic Being   placed hundreds of links, as I said many don't need to be there, and could be removed. Cavingliz 13:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure what he may have added in the past, but he didn't add any links on December 24th. He moved an  tag, and that's all. Dekimasu 14:34, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Opps, I've been using the word "links" when I meant "refs". If you click on history at top of Malaysia page, you'll see :
10:47, 24 December 2006 Baryonic Being (Talk | contribs) m (Lots of refs now, except History section) 
so as I see it, BB added the refs then. Many don;t mean much, e.g. 20-25 etc Constitution of Malaysia. And some of the Time mag articles are not that relevant. Cavingliz 15:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But he didn't add them then. If you look to see what he actually edited by comparing the versions, he only moved the tag down the page. He meant that the page has a lot of references now, so there was no need to have a tag at the top of the page asking for more references. In general it is better to have too many sources than not enough sources for an article, so I think that aspect of the Malaysia page isn't a big problem. (^?^) Dekimasu 15:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would love to help but the internet is rather slow, even with proxy because of the earthquake in Taiwan. __earth (Talk) 15:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem at [[Malaysian]] 

message: Hi, I'm a student from Malaysia, and my teacher had came up with a topic for my oral test. I'm supposed to present a speech regarding...umm, well, I'll just put the topic/title here: "Malaysia's Role has Allowed World Peace" or the Malay equivalent, "Peranan Malaysia Mewujudkan Keamanan Dunia". Is there site whereby I can search at for the role of Malaysia? What the country does to ensure world peace? I hope someone could be kind enough to go through the bother of helping me out...thanks in advance! Cheers!! Zacharycrimsonwolf 13:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Student needs help 

message: Reading through the section on religion, I noticed that there seems to be a major problem with the percentages given in the breakdown; they appear to add up to 112%. If someone knows where to get accurate figures, then please fix this inconsistency.
147.222.24.23 03:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proportional breakdown of state religions 

message: I personally think that this page should be semi-protected due to excessive amounts of vandalism by IP-address users and un-established Wikipedians. The vandalism here is really getting out of control and as an alternative, the vandals should be blocked immediately for at least 6 hours before giving them a final chance on Wikipedia before being blocked indefinitely. Acs4b 11:10, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yes. i agree. there seem to be vandalisms here everyday. kawaputratok2me 04:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The vandalism problem on this page is not out of control (it isn't hard to deal with one or two cases a day, especially on a high-profile country page that a lot of people have on their watchlists). If someone vandalizes, please put a template:test  or template:bv on their talk page, and if they are recurring vandals report to WP:AIV. Borisblue 04:21, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Is Tamil a national language or an official language ?
:It's neither but it is a major language spoken by the 3rd largest ethnic community in Malaysia. It is also offered as an optional subject in national schools and there is a whole category of Tamil language state aided primary schools. - Bob K 06:08, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tamil in Malaysia 

message: I added the "missing citations" tag because there are a lot of unverified statements that seem like they should be verified by third parties. Candent shlimazel 14:37, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economy citations 

message: under demographics, the population isn't showed. 
someone please correct it. thanks
Abdelkweli 22:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population 

message: :Image:Msia-crest.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Msia-crest.jpg

message: Debate has been started at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals to see if there is interest for a WikiProject Malaysia. Chris 04:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Malaysia discussion

message: A recent update to the page reverted the removal of the Jawi script for the name of Malaysia. I am not certain what is the official status of the Jawi script in Malaysia. I know it is a legitimate form of script for the Malay language and I was taught Jawi in primary school but Article 152 of the Malaysian Constitution doesn't define the script unlike Article 153A of Singapore's Constitution which defines the national language as Malay in the Roman script. Perhaps the answer is in the National Language Act 1967? Until this is clarified definitively, I'd like to suggest that the Jawi script be removed from the article by virtue that the Roman script is in common usage. - Bob K 19:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Section 9 of the National Language Act 1967, it is stated that "The script of the national language shall be the Rumi script: provided that this shall not prohibit the use of the Malay script, more commonly known as the Jawi script, of the national language." Note that neither script is actually "native" to Malaysia. The Rumi (Latin) script uses the Latin alphabet, while the Jawi script is a modified form of the Arabic script. The Rumi script is more commonly used in Malaysia, and it is taught in all schools and AFAIK, the government uses the script in all correspondence. The Jawi script is seldom used apart from a few road signs (Jawi road signs are uncommon) and the SPM examination (the instructions on the cover of the Malay language (or "Malaysian language") paper states that either script may be used). I can't even read Jawi after studying Malay in school for twelve years! But one thing for sure: Malay is the one and only national and official language in Malaysia.--Joshua Say "hi" to me!What have I done? 00:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess that settles it. Since the official script is defined pretty clearly in Article 9 of the National Language Act, I think it'd be justified to remove the Jawi script spelling in the article. - Bob K 01:13, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Jawi script]] as native name of Malaysia? 

message: Now, the official language of Malaysia is Bahasa Malaysia, or Malaysian Language and no more Bahasa Melayu. All government and private sectors must use the term Bahasa Malaysia rather than the latter. . So in order to comply with that, we should rename the official language as Bahasa Malaysia or Malaysian Language. I have seen people tried to change that but someone else will revert it. So let us have some concensus on it ok. --Zack2007 04:04, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Refer to Article 152 of the Constitution . It is clear that the official language is Malay. Further, do use English per WP:UE. Bahasa Malaysia is not the English rendering. For example, refer to Indonesia where the official language is stated as Indonesian rather than Bahasa Indonesia. __earth (Talk) 04:33, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree in calling "Malaysian" rather than Bahasa Malaysia. But because the government has reverted the use of Malaysian Language for all things and call for everyone to use it, so why wikipedia is an exception? Naming Convention said that use the more popular usage. The term, Malaysian Language will be used more and more often from this point onward in Malaysia and in the world.  --Zack2007 09:02, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd contend that the proper term to use is still the Malay language. This is affirmed by the Federal Constitution, legislation and also popular usage. The term Bahasa Malaysia is more a policy shift rather than one of linguistics. If we keep defining Malaysia everytime a politician (whether in power or otherwise) decides what it is, we're gonna be a pretty confused lot. - Bob K 11:33, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

text: A Cabinet decision ultimately is still a political decision. Unless the law or the Constitution is amended to specifically refer to the national language as Bahasa Malaysia similiar to Article 36 of the Indonesian Constitution, I don't see the change in terminology for Wikipedia as justified. As it is right now, the Constitution defines the national language as Bahasa Melayu or the Malay language. - Bob K 14:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The official language of Indonesia is commonly called Indonesian language whether in or outside of Indonesia. It is a long-established term since the independence of Indonesia in 1945. Bahasa Malaysia, or "Malaysian language" is virtually unheard of outside Malaysia. From a linguistic POV, Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia are the official versions of the Malay language in both countries. Back to the topic... IMO, we can leave the official language in the infobox as Malay and add footnote to state something like "officially known as Bahasa Malaysia (literally "Malaysian language")." --Joshua Say "hi" to me!What have I done? 01:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In Indonesia, the official name; Bahasa Indonesia; is official both by law and common usage. In Malaysia, the term Bahasa Malaysia is official so far as a Cabinet decision is concerned and by common usage (even when it was "officially" reverted to Bahasa Melayu). Technically speaking, Bahasa Melayu is the official terminology as per legislation. So while I'd agree with the retention of the term Malay within the infobox, I'd agree less with a note stating that Bahasa Malaysia is official. Perhaps a more descriptive but accurate footnote would be something along the lines of "the current polioy is to refer to the Malay language as Bahasa Malaysia or the Malaysian language" with some chronological information about how the terminology has changed over the years. - Bob K 08:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Bob K. It provides the closest understanding of the situation for the policy of Malay Language changes. Because I remember reading that one minister said "The national language of Malaysia is Malay Language but we just want to call it Malaysian Language from now on"..But I still believe that in the infobox it should be written as "Malaysian" with a footnote that Malaysian Language in the legislation is called Malay Language instead. This reflects the policy change in Malaysia. --Zack2007 10:36, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Policy change should be referenced but official terminology retained for the article. Until legislation is changed to refer to the national language and official language as Bahasa Malaysia, there is no justified reason to change the terminology used in this article. As a result, I've reverted the edit done by Zack2007 but have retained the footnote with reference to the current change in government policy. - Bob K 10:02, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bahasa Malaysia, Malaysian Language, or Malay? 

message: Calling all Malaysian Wikipedians around the world!! It is high time for us to start our own WikiProject for Malaysia..any one can create/assiting me to create WikiProject Malaysia.
:I'm with you, but it takes a lot of work let alone time to create one, unless if you are an admin/higher rank. But yeah, I will support it.--Zack2007 03:18, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I need some one to start off the project as i have no experienceMarcusaffleck 15:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject Malaysia 

message: A blanket revert on 02:04, 13 July 2007 by Earth for "Too many leftover from vandalism in the current edition)" is not practical if it is a blanket revert that eliminates contributions from other editors. Let us hold off making such reverts and take more time to dissect any instance of vandalism from the body of text.Mister Fax 18:22, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Earth also reverted two of my recent changes with comments that didn't make sense.  I put in edits about the influence of religion on government in the government section, and he got rid of it and said to put it in religious freedom, where it does not fit.  Also something similar in demographics.  I put this stuff back and I think it should stand.  Bigglove 18:10, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text: My stuff is still there, and perhaps it was removed by accident when removing vandalism.   Thanks to other editors for letting it stand.  Bigglove 15:31, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blanket reverts deprive article of valuable contributions 

message: Just James wrote "The earliest inhabitants of the Malay peninsula were the orang asli or indigenous people who migrated from Siam around 2500 BC."
This statement is incorrect, as archaeological evidence has shown the area was inhabited 100-200,000 years ago in the Lenggong Valley. Cavingliz 09:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: It doesn't look like there is a human rights article on malaysia that I could find.  Does anyone know of one?  If not I might start one at some point.  Bigglove 18:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: U can expand from this: Human rights in Malaysia. kawaputratorque 19:36, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks, i should have looked before I asked :=).  I will start on it, but will need some help.  Bigglove 16:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  human rights article 

message: "Bersekutu Bertambah Mutu" Translates more accurately into "Federating Adds Quality". Opinions?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.48.110.33 (talk) 03:13, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that there are differences between directly translating a phrase and translating context. Those that designed the crest are doing the latter. For instance, one does not directly translate "air yang tenang jangan disangka tiada buaya" into English. Rather, the equivalence would be "calm water runs deep" or something like that. __earth (Talk) 12:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motto 

message: Is it really: 'məleʃɑ? I thought it was 'məleiʃɑ? Arthurian Legend 03:34, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think 'məleiʃɑ is also correct, if not, the correct pronunciation. But from my observation, most Malaysians pronounce it as 'məleʃɑ. Feel free to add it in the IPA thing. Any other M'sian wanna comment? kawaputratorque 04:09, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are these Malaysians English speakers?  I can't find any substantiatian for pronouncing the name as though it were spelled "Malaysha" anywhere.  Every source I can find indicates that it is pronounced as though it were spelled "Malayzha".  I rather doubt the "Malayziya" pronunciation given is ever used, but lacking substantiation of my view, I've left it in the article.  Tomertalk 04:48, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ya im quite new to this IPA thing, but i put it there anyway. Sorry. And thanks for correcting. About "Malaysha", yes i have heard Malaysians use this. Im not sure if they're Malaysian English speakers. Does it matter if they're English speakers? About "Malayziya", ive heard ppl in the news (tv) pronouncing it as "Malay-see-ah". They dont use the alphabet 's' in IPA? kawaputratorque 05:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's alright.  I'm not trying to castigate you or anyone else.  If TV News announcers don't speak English, I can imagine they might well assume that they are pronouncing the name correctly by saying "see-ah" or "see-ya", but that doesn't really have anything to do with how the name is pronounced in English (the only relevant topic here).  On your other question, yes, "s" is certainly used in IPA, as is "z"...and perhaps that's the problem...without investigating, it may well be that /s/ and /z/ are not phonologically distinct in Malay, or that /z/ doesn't even exist at all (which would make my "correction" incorrect).  That said, however, if Malay-si-ya is a pronunciation used by non-English-speaking (or poor-English-speaking) Malaysians, this mispronunciation really has no place in the article to begin with. :-\  Tomertalk 06:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ya i guess. Im also not sure if /s/ and /z/ are phonologically distinct in Malay. I suspect they are. And come to think of it, i think what the tv announcers were pronouncing was actually "Malay-zi-ya". Hmm, I think i need to do abit more research. :-P kawaputratorque 14:04, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: The recently added source are suspiciously similar to Wikipedia article:
I have a feeling that the source might have copied Wikipedia. I therefore suggest we find a better source for that. __earth (Talk) 12:22, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It may well be the other way around: a wikipedian copied from that source. It has been used before. But non-web sources would be preferrable - do you have any? docboat 01:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, these are copyvios from Wiki, reported many times at Wikipedia:Forks and mirrors.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:21, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm quite sorry, I was the one who added that citation. Hopefully, I won't make the same mistake again.  Acs4b  T  C U  14:19, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation