Talk:Serbia/Archive 1

message: MOST WILL SAY YES WITH 90% CHANCE
# NEITHER ARE SLAV AND BOTH ARE FROM A REGION OF IRAN
# BOOTH TOOK ON A NEW RELIGION AND MIXED WITH SLAVS 
SOME WELL KNOWN HISTORIANS HAVE SAID IF CROATS CAME TO EUROPE VIA POLAND AND UKRAINE FROM IRAN AND SERBS HAVE SOME LINK TO IRAN TOO....NOBODY CAN RULE OUT THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE...SAME TRIBE BUT DIFFERENT NAME ONLY...
UNDER YUGOSLAVIA A IRANIAN TEXT WITH PROOF WAS BURNED AS YUGOSLAV COMMUNIST GOVT (PRO SLAV)WANTED ITS PEOPLE TO THINK THEY WERE SLAV ORIGIN...WHAT IS EVEN WORSE THE PROOF WAS THERE THAT SERBS AND CROATS ARE THE SAME PEOPLE...INTERSTING CONSIDERING THE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE TWO...THEY COULD WELL BE BROTHERS........ ARNT WE ALL ADAM AND EVE OR APE ...ALL ONE....WAR IS OVER GUYS PEACE AND TRUTH...........IF THIS IS TRUE AND ITS LOOKS LIKE IT IS ....WHAT A HISTORY OF BROTHERS WHO DONT EVER GET ON FOR HUNDRES OF YEARS......SO SILLY
Unfortunately there are even more "nationalities" that fit the same description. What is the actual truth is rather interesting but I would say that all are Slavic (non-Slavic background like described is known for Bulgarians).
--Aleksandar Šušnjar 04:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ARE SERBS AND CROATS THE SAME PEOPLE??? 

message: You have said "using the previous precedents such as the word "hrvatska" (which means both "Hrvatska" - Croatia and "hrvatska" - Croatian as an adjective, f.), the word Srpska was also declared to be a proper noun". There is no precedent with the word "hrvatska". In Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian language almost every name of the state is both noun and adjective - Bugarska (Bulgaria), Madjarska (Hungary), Grcka (Greece), Njemacka (Germany), Francuska (France), Engleska (England), etc. So, the noun "Srpska" was not declared to be a noun. The noun Srpska, as the name of the state, the republic or the entity is completely based on language rules and the spirit of Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian language. 
I propose that you either delete this part (from the words "because the word" to the words "declared to be a proper noun", or to explain the creation of names of states in Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian language.
Stevo
This page is still incoherent despite my last edit. Go back to the page history. Some of the old content should be restored. --Jiang 07:30, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the old content seems to be moved to History of Serbia. Nikola 15:18, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Srpska - noun and adjective 

message: Just for the record if you type
Google search
Uza Srbija1,500 results
Centralna Srbija6,480 results
Central Serbia1,260,000 results
Serbia proper110,000 results
Avala 13:33, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: UZA or CENTRALNA; CENTRAL OR PROPER

message: Is there any proof that "samo sloga Srbina spašava" is the national motto of Serbia? AFAIK, it's just a proverb. Zocky 21:04, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: That symbol is the Serbian national coat of arms which depicts a cross and four fire-irons ("ocila"), and are not cyrillic letters "C" (= "S). Four C's and "Samo sloga Srbina spašava" are a popular explanation of the coat of arms, but are just legends. There's no official motto of Serbia, AFAIK. Zocky 01:34, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  The motto 

message: Copied from Talk:Flag of Serbia - suggest that both this and other article need updated with new flag as official... Comments? zoney ▓█▒ talk 18:36, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it did change, though I wouldn't call this version "unofficial" but "popular". State institutions are obliged to have the flag with the CoA. Citizens and various organisations can (must?) hoist flag without CoA. I'll try to find exact text of the law. Nikola 14:48, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag change? 

message: The language name changed by anonymous is de jure correct, however, there's more to it...
* The whole Constitution which the change is based on is relatively out of date, because it's from early 1990, meaning it's still the same Constitution that existed during the SFRY.
* According to this separate constitutional law there's supposed to be a separate law on the use of the official language and its alphabets, too, which wouldn't change the name (it isn't marked as a constitutional law) but would probably enlighten on how the eastern variant is the only one used.
* According to this constitutional draft by the 2004 government, the language is back to the now-common name.
--Joy [shallot] 22:10, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  constitutional language 

message: The history section really grew out of proportion. It should be merged into History of Serbia. --Joy [shallot] 23:58, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  history section 

message: Is Serbia known for it's Ice Cream? A good friend of mine claimed that their Ice Cream is world famous. Is this true? -- Doctor Willars (Click Me!)
Would you like a receipt? --Ninam 06:13, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ice Cream?

message: To explain to User:ProhibitOnions: It made power of central state less. Republics had their own central banks (but also federal bank), their own military organizations ("territorial defense"; but federal army was more important and a lot stronger; TO was the basis of armies of Bosniks, Croatians, Slovenians and Macedonians); but police was republic-based and republic polices was much stronger then federal (police was the other basis of future armies). However, Serbia was decentralized, too; with a lot of power moved to Kosovo and Vojvodina. Other republics wasn't. It should be described into article, too (but my English is not so good). It was even very strange for inhabitans of Inner Serbia. For example: 8 members of collective president of SFRY was: 6 from republics and 2 from regions from Serbia. But, one from serbia was not elected only by inhabitans of Inner Serbia, but from inhabitans of regions, too. So, it can be said that inhabitans of Kosovo and Vojvodina always voted twice. --Millosh 21:29, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Constitution from 1974 

message: # It is not so relevant for this article that Josip Broz was a Croat. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 11:32, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some edites are reverted 

message: The menu for the "series" and individual files are created. If someone summarizes the history section, the size of this page can drop into limits.--tommiks 02:15, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ragusan, your edits are OK, but, please, log in while you are editing. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 07:07, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The history of Serbia Series!!! 

message: This article does not look like it needs to be cleaned up and looks normal. Except the fact that it looks like someone from Eur. put all the population (7.000.000) decimals in metric format as well as the same with the area, et al. But, aside from that, it looks okay. Эйрон Кинни 23:37, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looks alright to me 

message: Here you go:
The roots of the Serbian state reach back to the first half of the 9th century. The Kingdom of Serbia was established in the 11th century, and in the 14th century it eventually became the Serbian Empire. The Empire fell to the Turks after the historic Serbian defeat at the Battle of Kosovo in 1389.  The Serbian states of Serbian Despotovina and Bosnia managed to survive for another seventy years until they too were annexed to the Ottoman Empire, whose rule would last for the next four centuries despite three Austrian occupations and numerous rebellions. The First Serbian Uprising of 1804-1813 and the Second Serbian Uprising of 1815 resulted in the establishment of the Serbian Principality, which was semi-independent from Turkey, and the formation of modern Serbia. In 1876 Montenegro, Serbia, and Bosnia declared war against Turkey and proclaimed their unification. However, the Treaty of Berlin of 1878 granted complete independence "only" to Serbia and Montenegro, leaving Bosnia and Raska to Austro-Hungary--which blocked their unification until the Balkan wars of 1912 and 1913, and WWI (1914-1918). After 1918, Serbia was a founding member of Yugoslavia in its various forms (the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia).
No other country page attacks the reader like this, so no reason for the page on Serbia to do so. --estavisti 00:18, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted material 

message: Someone had to do it. :) I'm aware the text I've replaced it with isn't perfect, but please use it as a base to work from. Here you have the removed material to use:
Main article: History of Serbia
See also The Serbia Series:
Serbia                                  	Serbia	Serbia	Serbia
Medieval Serbia                         	      	      	
Ottoman Serbia                          	      	      	
Modern Serbia                           	      	      	
Kingdom of Yugoslavia                   	      	      	
Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia	      	      	
Serbia and Montenegro                   	      	      	
See also: List of Serbian monarchs, History of Yugoslavia, History of Serbia and Montenegro
===Medieval Serbia, 7th – 14th century===
The Serbs entered their present territory early in the 7th century, settling in six distinct tribal delimitations: 
* Raška
* Bosnia
* Duklja/Zeta
* Zahumlje
* Travunia
* Pagania
The first recorded Serb princes were Vlastimir, Viseslav, Radoslav and Prosigoj. By that time, the country had entirely accepted Christianity. In Zeta, today's Montenegro, Mihailo was crowned by the Pope in 1077. At this time, Serbs were Catholics as well as Orthodox. King Mihailo also obtained from the Pope the title of  Archbishop for the city of Bar. With this act, the Serbs managed to achieve religious independence. His son, Konstantin Bodin, claimed the throne in 1080, and ruled until his death in 1101. The rulers kept changing and the country accepted supreme protection from the Byzantine Empire rather than from the hostile Bulgaria. Serbia was freed from the Byzantine Empire a century later.
Serbs have not been united since the Middle Ages. The nation was split into several states, which were at times independent but at other times united. The names of those states were Duklja (Zeta), Zahumlje (today's Hercegovina, with the city Dubrovnik), Travunija (Trebinje, part of today's Bosnia and Croatia), Pagania (today's eastern Dalmatia with the Islands), Bosna (Bosnia) and Rascia (today's Sandžak). Eventualy Rascia emerged as the strongest and took the name Serbia instead. The first Serb-organized state emerged under Časlav Klonimirović in the mid-10th century in Rascia. The first half of the 11th century saw the rise of the Vojislavljević family in Zeta. Marked by disintegration and crises, it lasted until the end of 12th century. After a struggle for the throne with his brothers, Stefan Nemanja, the founder of the Nemanjić dynasty, rose to power in 1166 and started renewing the Serbian state in the Raska region. Sometimes with the sponsorship of Byzantium, and sometimes opposing it, the veliki zupan (a title equivalent to the rank of prince) Stefan Nemanja expanded his state by seizing territories in the east and south, and newly annexed the littoral and the Zeta region. Along with his governmental efforts, the veliki zupan dedicated much care to the construction of monasteries. His endowments include the Djurdjevi Stupovi Monastery and the Studenica Monastery in the Raška region, and the Hilandar Monastery on Mount Athos. The Nemanjići led Serbia to a golden age which produced a powerful state with its apogee under Tsar Stefan Dušan in the mid-14th century, before finally succumbing to the Ottoman Empire (with Zeta, the last bastion, finally falling in 1499).
Stefan Nemanja was succeeded by his middle son Stefan II, whilst his first-born, Vukan, was given the rule of the Zeta region (present-day Montenegro). Stefan Nemanja's youngest son Rastko became a monk and took the name of Sava, turning all his efforts to spreading Christianity among his people. Since the Curia already had ambitions to spread its influence to the Balkans as well, Stefan II (Prvovenčani) used these propitious circumstances to obtain his crown from the Pope, thus becoming the first Serbian king in 1217. Actually he was only the first Serbian King to came from Rascia, because the first Serbian king was King Mihailo (1077) from Zeta. In Byzantium, his brother Sava managed to secure the autocephalous status for the Serbian Church and became the first Serbian orthodox archbishop in 1219. Thus the Serbs acquired both forms of independence: temporal and religious.
The next generation of Serbian rulers - the sons of Stefan Prvovenčani - Radoslav, Vladislav and Uroš I, marked a period of stagnation of the state structure. All three kings were more or less dependent on some of the neighboring states - Byzantium, Bulgaria or Hungary. Hungary's ties played a decisive role in his son's Dragutin succession to the throne, on account of his son's marriage to a Hungarian princess. Later when Dragutin abdicated in favor of his younger brother Milutin (in 1282), the Hungarian king Ladislaus IV gave him lands in northeastern Bosnia, the region of Mačva, and the city of Belgrade, whilst he managed to conquer and annex lands in northeastern Serbia. Thus, some of these territories became part of the Serbian state for the first time. His new state was named Kingdom of Srem. In that time the name Srem was a designation for two territories: Upper Srem (present day Srem) and Lower Srem (present day Mačva). Kingdom of Srem under the rule of Stefan Dragutin was actually Lower Srem, but some historical sources mention that Stefan Dragutin also ruled over Upper Srem and Slavonia. After Dragutin died (in 1316), new ruler of the Kingdom of Srem became his son, king  Vladislav II, which ruled this state until 1325.
Under the rule of Dragutin's younger brother — Milutin, Serbia grew stronger in spite of the fact that it had to occasionally fight wars on three different fronts. King Milutin was an apt diplomat much inclined to the use of customary medieval diplomatic expedients — dynastic marriages. He was married five times, with Hungarian, Bulgarian and Byzantine princesses. He is also famous for building churches, some of which are the brightest examples of medieval Serbian architecture: the Gracanica Monastery in Kosovo, the Cathedral in Hilandar Monastery on Mount Athos, the St Archangel Church in Jerusalem etc. Because of his endowments, King Milutin has been proclaimed a saint, in spite of his tumultuous life. He was succeeded on the throne by his son Stefan, later dubbed Stefan Dečanski. Spreading the kingdom to the east by conquering the town of Niš and the surrounding counties, and to the south by acquiring territories in Macedonia. Stefan Dečanski was worthy of his father and built the Visoki Decani Monastery in Metohija — the most monumental example of Serbian medieval architecture — that earned him his nickname.
Medieval Serbia enjoyed a high political, economic, and cultural reputation in Europe. It was one of the few states that did not practice the feudal order. Medieval Serbia reached its apex in the mid-14th century, during the rule of Tzar Stefan Dusan. This is the period of the Dusanov Zakonik (Dusan's Code, 1349), a juridical achievement very unique among the European states of the time. Tzar Dusan opened up new trade routes and strengthened the state's economy. Serbia flourished, featuring one of the most evolved countries and cultures in Europe. Some of Serbia's greatest Medieval arts were created during this period, most notably St. Sava's Nomocanon. Tzar Stefan Dusan doubled the size of his kingdom seizing territories to the south, southeast and east at the expense of Byzantium and conquered almost the entire of today's Greece without Peloponesia and the islands. After he conquered the city of Ser, he was crowned as the Emperor of the Serbs and Greeks by the first Serbian Patriarch in 1346. Before his sudden death, Stefan Dušan tried to organize a Crusade with the Pope against the threatening Turks. Unfortunately, he died in December 1355 at the age 47. Modern abduction of the emperor's body revealed that he was poisoned. He was succeeded by his son Uroš, called the Weak, a term that might also apply to the state of the kingdom slowly sliding into feudal anarchy. This was a period marked by the rise of a new threat: the Ottoman Turk sultanate which gradually spread from Asia to Europe conquering Byzantium first and then the remaining Balkans states.
===Turkish conquest===
Two of the most powerful Serbian barons in the Serbian Empire, the brothers Mrnjavcevic, gathered a great Army to fight and push back the Turks from Europe. They marched into Turkish territory in 1371 to attack the enemy but they were too confident in themselves. They built a camp overnight near the river Marica in today's Turkey, and started celebrating and getting drunk. During the night, a detachment of Turkish forces attacked the drunk Serbian knights and drove them back to the river. Most of the Serbs were either drowned or killed, thereby annihilating the Serbian army which was gathered from southern states.
Having defeated the Serbian army in two crucial battles: on the banks of the river Marica in 1371 — where the forces of Serbian noblemen Mrnjavcevic from today's Macedonia were defeated, and on Kosovo Polje (Kosovo Field) in 1389, where the vassal troops commanded by Prince Lazar — the strongest regional ruler in Serbia at the time —killed Turkish Sultan Murat but suffered a defeat, due to the legendary "sudden departure" of Brankovic's Serbian troops. The Battle of Kosovo defined the fate of Serbia, because after it no force capable of standing up to the Turks existed. This was an instable period marked by the rule of Prince Lazar's son — despot Stefan Lazarević — a true European-style knight a military leader as well as a poet, and his cousin Đurađ Branković, who moved the capital north — to the newly built fortified town of Smederevo. The Turks continued their conquest until they finally seized the entire norhern Serbian territory in 1459 when Smederevo fell into their hands. Only free Serbian territories were parts of Bosnia and Zeta. But they lasted only until 1496. The present-day Serbian territory  would be ruled by the Ottoman Empire for the next four centuries.
From the 14th century onward an increasing number of Serbs began migrating to the north to the region today known as Vojvodina, which was under the rule of the Kingdom of Hungary in that time. The Hungarian kings encouraged the immigration of Serbs to the kingdom, and hired many of them as soldiers and border guards. Therefore, the Serb population of this region highly increased. During the struggle between the Ottoman Empire and Hungary, this Serb population performed an attempt of the restoration of the Serbian state. In the battle of Mohač on august 29 1526, Ottoman Turkey destroyed the army of Hungarian-Czech king Louis Jagellion, who was killed on the battlefield. After this battle Hungary ceased to be independent state and much of its former territory became part of the Ottoman Empire. Soon after the Battle of Mohač, leader of Serbian mercenaries in Hungary, Jovan Nenad established his rule in Bačka, northern Banat and a small part of Srem (These three regions are now parts of Vojvodina). He created an ephemeral independent state, with city Subotica as its capital. At the pitch of his power, Jovan Nenad crowned himself in Subotica for Serb emperor. Taking advantage of the extremely confused military and political situation, the Hungarian noblemen from the region joined forces against him and defeated the Serbian troops in the summer of 1527. Emperor Jovan Nenad was assassinated and his state collapsed.
European powers, and Austria in particular, fought many wars against the Ottoman Empire, relying on the help of the Serbs that lived under Ottoman rule. During the Austrian–Turkish War (1593–1606), in 1594, the Serbs staged an uprising in Banat — the Pannonian part of Turkey, and sultan Murad III retaliated by burning the remains of St Sava — the most sacred thing for all Serbs, honored even by Muslims of Serbian origin. Serbs created another center of resistance in Hercegovina but when peace was signed by Turkey and Austria they abandoned to Turkish vengeance. This sequence of events became usual in the centuries that followed.
During the Great War (1683–90) between Turkey and the Holy League — created with the sponsorship of the Pope and including Austria, Poland and Venice — these three powers incited the Serbs to rebel against the Turkish authorities and soon uprisings and guerrilla spread throughout the western Balkans: from Montenegro and the Dalmatian coast to the Danube basin and Old Serbia (Macedonia, Raška, Kosovo and Metohija). However, when the Austrians started to pull out of Serbia, they invited the Serbian people to come north with them to the Austrian territories. Having to choose between Ottoman reprisal and living in a Christian state, Serbs abandoned their homesteads and headed north lead by patriarch Arsenije Čarnojević. 
Another important episode in Serbian history took place in 1716–18, when the Serbian ethnic territories ranging from Dalmatia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina to Belgrade and the Danube basin newly became the battleground for a new Austria-Ottoman war launched by Prince Eugene of Savoy. The Serbs sided once again with Austria. After a peace treaty was signed in Požarevac, the Ottomans lost all its possessions in the Danube basin, as well as northern Serbia and northern Bosnia, parts of Dalmatia and the Peloponnesus.
The last Austrian-Ottoman war was the so called Dubica War (1788–91), when the Austrians newly urged the Christians in Bosnia to rebel. No wars were fought afterwards until the 20th century that marked the fall of both mighty empires.
===Modern Serbia===
Serbia gained its autonomy from the Ottoman Empire in two uprisings in 1804 and 1815, although Turkish troops continued to garrison the capital, Belgrade, until 1867. The Turkish Empire was already faced with a deep internal crisis without any hope of recuperating. This had a particularly hard effect on the Christian nations living under its rule. The Serbs launched not only a national revolution but a social one as well and gradually Serbia started to catch up with the European states with the introduction of the bourgeois society values. Resulting from the uprisings and subsequent wars against the Ottoman Empire, the independent Principality of Serbia was formed and granted international recognition in 1878. Serbia was a principality or kneževina (knjaževina), between 1817 and 1882, and a kingdom between 1882 and 1918, during which time the internal politics revolved largely around dynastic rivalry between the Obrenović and Karađorđević families.
This period was marked by the alternation of two dynasties descending from Đorđe Petrović — Karađorđe, leader of the First Serbian Uprising and Miloš Obrenović, leader of the Second Serbian Uprising. Further development of Serbia was characterized by general progress in economy, culture and arts, primarily due to a wise state policy of sending young people to European capitals to get an education. They all brought back a new spirit and a new system of values. One of the external manifestations of the transformation that the former Turkish province was going through was the proclamation of the Kingdom of Serbia in 1882.
During the Revolutions of 1848, the Serbs in the Austrian Empire proclaimed Serbian autonomous province known as Serbian Vojvodina. By a decision of the Austrian emperor, in November 1849, this province was trasformed into the Austrian crownland known as the Vojvodina of Serbia and Tamiš Banat (Dukedom of Serbia and Tamiš Banat). Against the will of the Serbs, the province was abolished in 1860, but the Serbs from the region gained another opportunity to achieve their political demands in 1918. Today, this region is known as Vojvodina.
In the second half of 19th century, Serbia was integrated into the constellation of European states and the first political parties were founded thus giving new momentum to political life. The coup d'état in 1903, bringing Karađorđe's grandson to the throne with the title of King Petar I opened the way for parliamentary democracy in Serbia. Having received a European education, this liberal king translated "On Liberty" by John Stuart Mill and gave his country a democratic constitution. It initiated a period of parliamentary government and political freedom interrupted by the outbreak of the liberation wars. The Balkan wars 1912–13, terminated the Turkish domination in the Balkans. Turkey was pushed back towards the Bosporus, and national Balkan states were created in the territories it withdrew from.
====Serbia in World War I====
The June 28, 1914 assassination of Austrian Crown Prince Franz Ferdinand in the Bosnian capital Sarajevo, served as a pretext for the Austrian attack on Serbia that marked the beginning of World War I, despite Serbia's acceptance (on July 25) of nearly all of Austria-Hungary's demands. The Serbian Army bravely defended its country and won several major victories, but it was finally overpowered by the joint forces of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Bulgaria, and had to withdraw from the national territory marching across the Albanian mountain ranges to the Adriatic Sea. On 16 August Serbia was promised by the Entente the territories of Srem, Bačka, Baranja, eastern Slavonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and eastern Dalmatia as a reward after the war. Having recuperated on Corfu the Serbian Army returned to combat on the Thessaloniki front together with other Entente forces comprising France, the United Kingdom, Russia, Italy and the United States. In World War I, Serbia had 1,264,000 casualties — 28% of its 4½m population, which also represented 58% of its male population — a loss from which it never fully recovered. This enormous sacrifice was the contribution Serbia gave to the Allied victory and the remodeling of Europe and of the World after World War I.
===The Kingdom of Yugoslavia===
A successful Allied offensive in September 1918 secured first Bulgaria's surrender and then the liberation of the occupied Serbian territories (November 1918). On November 25, the Assembly of Serbs, Bunjevci, and other nations of Vojvodina in Novi Sad voted to join the region to Serbia. Also, on November 29 the National Assembly of Montenegro voted for union with Serbia, and two days later an assembly of leaders of Austria–Hungary's southern Slav regions voted to join the new State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs.
With the end of World War I and the collapse of both the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires the conditions were met for proclaiming the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes in December of 1918. The Yugoslav ideal had long been cultivated by the intellectual circles of the three nations that gave the name to the country, but the international constellation of political forces and interests did not permit its implementation until then. However, after the war, idealist intellectuals gave way to politicians, and the most influential Croatian politicians opposed the new state right from the start.
The Croatian Peasant Party (HSS) headed by Stjepan Radić, and then by Vlatko Maček slowly grew to become a massive party endorsing Croatian national interests. According to its leaders the Yugoslav state did not provide a satisfactory solution to the Croatian national question. They chose to conduct their political battle by systematically obstructing state institutions and making political coalitions to undermine the state unity, thus extorting certain concessions. Each political or economic issue was used as a pretext for raising the so-called "unsettled Croatian question".
Trying to match this challenge and prevent any further weakening of the country, King Alexander I banned national political parties in 1929, assumed executive power, and renamed the country Yugoslavia. He hoped to curb separatist tendencies and mitigate nationalist passions. However the balance of power changed in international relations: in Italy and Germany, Fascists and Nazis rose to power, and Stalin became the absolute ruler in the Soviet Union. None of these three states favored the policy pursued by Alexander I. The first two wanted to revise the international treaties signed after World War I, and the Soviets were determined to regain their positions in Europe and pursue a more active international policy. Yugoslavia was an obstacle for these plans, and King Aleksandar I was the pillar of the Yugoslav policy.
During an official visit to France in 1934, the king was assassinated in Marseille by a member of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization — an extreme nationalist organization in Bulgaria that had plans to annex territories along the eastern and southern Yugoslav border — with the cooperation of the Ustaše — a Croatian fascist separatist organization, although some Croatian and independent scholars do not believe Croatian cooperation was provided or even necessary. It is possible to believe this without being a fascist sympathizer or a Catholic apologist. The international political scene in the late 1930s was marked by growing intolerance between the principal figures, by the aggressive attitude of the totalitarian regimes, and by the certainty that the order set up after World War I was losing its strongholds and its sponsors were losing their strength. Supported and pressured by Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, Croatian leader Vlatko Maček and his party managed to extort the creation of the Croatian banovina (administrative province) in 1939. The agreement specified that Croatia was to remain part of Yugoslavia, but it was hurriedly building an independent political identity in international relations, much like the Irish Free State so far away to the west.
====Serbia in World War II====
At the beginning of the 1940s, Yugoslavia found itself surrounded by hostile countries. Except for Greece, all other neighboring countries had signed agreements with either Germany or Italy. Hitler was strongly pressuring Yugoslavia to join the Axis powers. The government was even prepared to reach a compromise with him, but the spirit in the country was completely different. Public demonstrations against Nazism prompted a brutal reaction. The Luftwaffe bombed Belgrade and other major cities and in April 1941, the Axis powers occupied Yugoslavia and disintegrated it. The western parts of the country together with Bosnia and Herzegovina were turned into a Nazi puppet state called the Independent State of Croatia (NDH) and ruled by the Ustashe. Serbia was set up as another puppet state under Serbian army general Milan Nedić. The northern territories were annexed by Hungary, and eastern and southern territories to Bulgaria. Kosovo and Metohia were mostly annexed by Albania which was under the sponsorship of fascist Italy. Montenegro also lost territories to Albania and was then occupied by Italian troops. Slovenia was divided between Germany and Italy that also seized the islands in the Adriatic.
Following the Nazi example, the Independent State of Croatia established extermination camps and perpetrated an atrocious genocide killing of over at least 700,000 mainly Serbs, but also Jews and Gypsies, according to most independent studies of these atrocities; indeed some claim that 1,000,000 Serbs or more died in Croatian concentration camps by many means. The method of killing employed by authorities was to connect exhaust of trucks used to transport detainees to the cabin where they were loaded. This cabin had no fresh air supply, so the detainees would have died on the way to their burial site from carbon monoxide poisoning. This holocaust set the historical and political backdrop for the Yugoslav wars that broke out fifty years later in Croatia and Bosnia–Herzegovina and that accompanied the break-up of Yugoslavia in 1991–92.
The ruthless attitude of the German occupation forces and the genocidal policy of the Croatian Ustaša regime, aimed at Serbs, Jews, Gypsies and anti-Ustaša Croats, created a strong anti-fascist resistance. Many Yugoslavs, mostly Serbs, stood up against the genocide and the Nazis. Many joined the Partisan forces created by the Communist Party (National Liberation Army headed by Josip Broz Tito) in the liberation and the revolutionary war against Nazis and all the others who were against communism. During this war, the Partisans killed many civilians who did not support their ideals. By the end of 1944, the Red Army liberated Serbia, and by May 1945, the remaining republics were meeting up with the Allied forces in Hungary, Austria and Italy. Yugoslavia was among the countries that had the greatest losses in the war: 1,700,000 (10.8% of the population) people were killed and national damages were estimated at 9.1 billion dollars according to the prices of that period.
===Serbia in the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia===
While the war was still raging, in 1943, a revolutionary change of the social and state system was proclaimed with the abolition of monarchy in favor of the republic. Josip Broz Tito became the first president of the new — socialist — Yugoslavia. Once a predominantly agricultural country, Yugoslavia was transformed into a mid-range industrial country, and acquired an international political reputation by supporting the decolonization process and by assuming a leading role in the non-aligned movement. Socialist Yugoslavia was established as a federal state comprising six republics: Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia and Montenegro and two autonomous regions within Serbia — Vojvodina and Kosovo and Metohija. The Serbs were both the most numerous and the most widely distributed of the Yugoslav peoples. 
 
The 1974 constitution produced a significantly less centralized federation, increasing the autonomy of Yugoslavia's republics as well as the autonomous provinces of Serbia.
When Tito died in 1980, he was succeeded by a rotating presidency that led to a further weakening of ties between the republics. During the 1980s the republics pursued significantly different economic policies, with Slovenia and Croatia allowing significant market-based reforms, while Serbia kept to its existing program of state ownership. This, too, was a cause of tension between north and south, as Slovenia in particular experienced a period of strong growth. 
====The break-up of Yugoslavia====
The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia broke up in 1991/1992 following the independence of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Macedonia. Two remaining republics of Yugoslavia, Serbia and Montenegro, formed in 1992 a new federation named Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (In 2003 this state was transformed into the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro). 
Despite the civil wars in neighbouring Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, the new country remained peaceful until 1998, when the clashes between Serbian security forces and the Kosovo Liberation Army began. 
Between 1998 and 1999, continued reported clashes in Kosovo between Serbian/Yugoslav security forces and the K.L.A in most of the western media led to Nato aerial bombardment, which would last for 78 days. The attacks were stopped following an agreement, where-by Milošević agreed to remove all of his security forces including the military and the police, and have them replaced by a body of international police, in return for which, Kosovo would  formally remain within the Yugoslav Federation (See: Kosovo War).
Slobodan Milošević remained in power after the Kosovo conflict. On October 5, 2000 after demonstrations and fighting with police, he was overthrown. The appointment of Vojislav Koštunica became legal when on the following morning, Milošević publicly aknowledged the uprising and thus conceded his presidency. Following parliamentary elections in January 2001, Zoran Đinđić became Prime Minister. Đinđić was assassinated in Belgrade on March 12, 2003 by assailants believed to be connected with organized crime. Immediately after the assassination, a state of emergency was declared under Nataša Mićić, acting Prime Minister for the Republic of Serbia. 
In 2002 the Federal Parliament in Belgrade agreed to a more relaxed federation, which would see the national name change from Yugoslavia to the State Union of the Republics of Serbia and Montenegro. The transitional ceremony was inaugurated in Februay 2003. (for more, go to Serbia and Montenegro)
Hope that's enough --estavisti 13:40, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  History material I removed from the main page 

message: While the war was still raging, in 1943, a revolutionary change of the social and state system was proclaimed with the abolition of monarchy in favor of the republic. Josip Broz Tito became the first president of the new — socialist — Yugoslavia. Once a predominantly agricultural country, Yugoslavia was transformed into a mid-range industrial country, and acquired an international political reputation by supporting the decolonization process and by assuming a leading role in the non-aligned movement. Socialist Yugoslavia was established as a federal state comprising six republics: Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia and Montenegro and two autonomous regions within Serbia — Vojvodina and Kosovo and Metohija. The Serbs were both the most numerous and the most widely distributed of the Yugoslav peoples. 
 
The 1974 constitution produced a significantly less centralized federation, increasing the autonomy of Yugoslavia's republics as well as the autonomous provinces of Serbia.
When Tito died in 1980, he was succeeded by a rotating presidency that led to a further weakening of ties between the republics. During the 1980s the republics pursued significantly different economic policies, with Slovenia and Croatia allowing significant market-based reforms, while Serbia kept to its existing program of state ownership. This, too, was a cause of tension between north and south, as Slovenia in particular experienced a period of strong growth. 
====The break-up of Yugoslavia====
The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia broke up in 1991/1992 following the independence of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Macedonia. Two remaining republics of Yugoslavia, Serbia and Montenegro, formed in 1992 a new federation named Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (In 2003 this state was transformed into the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro). 
Despite the civil wars in neighbouring Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, the new country remained peaceful until 1998, when the clashes between Serbian security forces and the Kosovo Liberation Army began. 
Between 1998 and 1999, continued reported clashes in Kosovo between Serbian/Yugoslav security forces and the K.L.A in most of the western media led to Nato aerial bombardment, which would last for 78 days. The attacks were stopped following an agreement, where-by Milošević agreed to remove all of his security forces including the military and the police, and have them replaced by a body of international police, in return for which, Kosovo would  formally remain within the Yugoslav Federation (See: Kosovo War).
Slobodan Milošević remained in power after the Kosovo conflict. On October 5, 2000 after demonstrations and fighting with police, he was overthrown. The appointment of Vojislav Koštunica became legal when on the following morning, Milošević publicly aknowledged the uprising and thus conceded his presidency. Following parliamentary elections in January 2001, Zoran Đinđić became Prime Minister. Đinđić was assassinated in Belgrade on March 12, 2003 by assailants believed to be connected with organized crime. Immediately after the assassination, a state of emergency was declared under Nataša Mićić, acting Prime Minister for the Republic of Serbia. 
In 2002 the Federal Parliament in Belgrade agreed to a more relaxed federation, which would see the national name change from Yugoslavia to the State Union of the Republics of Serbia and Montenegro. The transitional ceremony was inaugurated in Februay 2003. (for more, go to Serbia and Montenegro)
Hope that's enough --estavisti 13:40, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Serbia in the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

message: The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia broke up in 1991/1992 following the independence of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Macedonia. Two remaining republics of Yugoslavia, Serbia and Montenegro, formed in 1992 a new federation named Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (In 2003 this state was transformed into the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro). 
Despite the civil wars in neighbouring Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, the new country remained peaceful until 1998, when the clashes between Serbian security forces and the Kosovo Liberation Army began. 
Between 1998 and 1999, continued reported clashes in Kosovo between Serbian/Yugoslav security forces and the K.L.A in most of the western media led to Nato aerial bombardment, which would last for 78 days. The attacks were stopped following an agreement, where-by Milošević agreed to remove all of his security forces including the military and the police, and have them replaced by a body of international police, in return for which, Kosovo would  formally remain within the Yugoslav Federation (See: Kosovo War).
Slobodan Milošević remained in power after the Kosovo conflict. On October 5, 2000 after demonstrations and fighting with police, he was overthrown. The appointment of Vojislav Koštunica became legal when on the following morning, Milošević publicly aknowledged the uprising and thus conceded his presidency. Following parliamentary elections in January 2001, Zoran Đinđić became Prime Minister. Đinđić was assassinated in Belgrade on March 12, 2003 by assailants believed to be connected with organized crime. Immediately after the assassination, a state of emergency was declared under Nataša Mićić, acting Prime Minister for the Republic of Serbia. 
In 2002 the Federal Parliament in Belgrade agreed to a more relaxed federation, which would see the national name change from Yugoslavia to the State Union of the Republics of Serbia and Montenegro. The transitional ceremony was inaugurated in Februay 2003. (for more, go to Serbia and Montenegro)
Hope that's enough --estavisti 13:40, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The break-up of Yugoslavia

message: Estavisti, I know that you want to make shorter history version, but what you just done is simply not good. You just deleted almost everything, including the link to the main article History of Serbia, as well as the links to the history articles from "The Serbia Series". Also, some parts of the history, which you deleted from this article are not mentioned in any other article except this. I agree that history section could be shorter, but not in the manner in which you done this. We should first discuss here what to delete or move to other articles. PANONIAN (talk) 17:30, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted parts

message: Would someone here be willing to come help out with the article about the BIA?  It is a very tiny stub right now and could use some help.Katsam 06:15, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Bezbednosno Informativna Agencija -- help! 

message: Is there any particular reason for mentioning the "national carrier" in the country info box? I couldn't find any other country with this mentioned, and thought I should delete that bit, but thought this should be asked here first... --HJV 22:34, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "National Carrier"

message: Some Serb vandal keeps deleting any reference to the Yugoslav wars from the article. This is completely inappropriate, and will be reverted. Other contributors who notice Serbs are deleting the country's recent history again are kindly asked to assist in reverting.
----
During this time Serbia was ONLY REPUBLIC (The first level administrative division) not a sovereign country, and did not had army but ONLY POLICE, and could not possibly be involved in civil wars in Bosnia or Croatia. PANONIAN (talk) 22:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of reference to Yugoslav wars from history section 

message: There is a user at IP 193.157.182.55 who vandalizes many articles and attempts to pass reverts of his vandalism as - a vandalism. His vandalisms include simple damage to correct spelling but also introduction of lies and unfounded facts to suit his or her own agenda. This can easily be seen from this user's list of edits.
To further point out why the information he is adding is vandalism I will include recognized references to the contrary.
* "Serb irredentism" does not exist, officially or not. There are no official decisions made to this regard nor any such actions. Some individuals may have expressed their opinions but to a lesser extend than published books on Greater Croatia concept. 193.157.182.55 vandal or anyone else needs to, and will fail, to provide any information to the contrary before making such assertions and accusations.
* Neither Serbia, nor Serbs, nor Slobodan Milošević caused the war. I addition to this, Serbia was largely not even the participant in it and to significant extent was even less involved than various other unofficial or official "helpers" in the war providing either weapons, funding or volunteer fighters. Slobodan Milošević, disliked by many Serbs and accused by Serbs of much wrongdoing has not actually been found guilty of anything. Franjo Tuđman, Alija Izetbegović and others were just as accused and in my POV, caused the war by eliminating basic human rights of significantly large number Serbs living in their area of influence. In any case, vandal from 193.157.182.55 fails to provide any references (and can not provide them).
* Vandal mentions death of 200,000 people. That number is first and foremost not caused by Serbia or Serbs alone and is greatly overinflated as well. Actual and official findings can be found [www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1291965/posts here].
* Vandal has no knowledge of different calendars. Serbs do not have a special calendar. Serbian Orthodox Church uses standard Julian Calendar. Therefore his "New Year" edit making it "Serbian" is incorrect. It is either Orthodox (as Julian calendar is generaly only used by Orthodox churches) but it would be most correct to state that it is "Julian New Year" - neither Serbian nor Orthodox. 
--Aleksandar Šušnjar 04:28, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Neither Serbia nor Milošević caused the war"? You tell this to the Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, who seems, like the rest of the world, to have an other opinion. This is no place for Serb nationalist propaganda and historical revisionism!! Croatian historian 12:28, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism from 193.157.182.55 

message: I've beed accused of being a "Milosevic and Serbian nationalist". However:
* I did not introduce *ANY* new content
* I removed POV content that
** is not backed by any reference whatsoever, let alone unbiased one
** is simply false according to referenced unbiased sources (UN, one can argue that they are biased against Serbs and Serbia)
** use of accusations as convictions
** does not relate to Serbia at all
** attempts to pass ones personal opinion as Serbia's official policy at any given time (without any proof)
* I reverted the introduction of Kosovo bordering Serbia instead of Albania. While this, criminally and unfortunately may easily be the case in the future it is not the case yet.
* I have noted the missed link to Yugoslav Wars and reworded it in the NPOV fashion. I could have easily given my POV which is that Serbia is the main victim of it all, but I did not.
* I am not "revising" history. That cannot be done. It is what it was. I did not even attempt to introduce any new content as can be seen. I am stating that vandals of this page are either:
** attempting to reinvent history (not the case, this is not new)
** attempting to pass their own propaganda as truth (proven false by unbiased references)
I am glad that Wikipedia records history of the article. In a way I am also glad that vandals are doing what they are doing, for following reasons:
* They are not introducing anything that hasn't already been passed to the world as their propaganda
* Therefore, they actually achieve nothing they wish by doing so, but
* They do clearly identify themselves and their ways. 
The truth has been hidden from people for too long. Unfortunately, irreversible damage has been done. But the same truth is leaking out and slowly appearing everywhere, not only on Wikipedia. It is unstoppable. People actually now found time to look into what actually happened vs. what they were told happened - this refers to anyone and everyone, whether involved in the war or not. 
I know I am still learning about it, from all sources, biased (for or against Serbia) and unbiased. They are all needed to form a complete picture, as the puzzle is not complete without all the pieces in it. Missing pieces are starting to fall into place...
--Aleksandar Šušnjar 05:41, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nationalistic points of view