Talk:Indo-European languages/Archive 2

message: A new page with this title has just been created by User:172.203.147.132 . I'm not sure whether its separate existence is valuable. Contributers here may have their own thoughts. Aryan language (small L) already redirects to this page. Perhaps that should become a disambiguation page. Paul B 09:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a copyvio from http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Languages/aryan/aryan_language.htm, and I've marked it for speedy deletion as such. --Angr/ 10:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: no need to speedy it, just make it a redirect to Indo-Iranian languages. dab (ᛏ) 20:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've decided to make Aryan language a disambig page, and Aryan Language will redirect to it, as will Aryan languages and Aryan Languages. --Angr/ 21:07, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Aryan Language]]

message: Can any one tell me that photos given in main page is how much valid now when Indus Valley civilization dates are going at 6500 BC as per Mehrgarh findings and recently exavated submerged town near Surat coastline in Western India in Gulf of Cambay. 
There should be some modifications in photos given.
:does this bear any relation to this article? dab (ᛏ) 20:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: None, whatsoever.--Eupator 21:20, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mehrgarh

message: It would be nice to have a table that describes the structural features found in most IE languages (such as genders, syntax, etc). Such tables can be found in articles on other families such as afro-asiatic languages and finno-ugric languages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.235.16.146 (talk • contribs) 15:20, 24 January 2006  (UTC)
I see alot of info on which languages fall under this category, but what makes a language Indo-European? When someone says X is Indo-European, what does can I then say about the features of X? Danielx 22:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The only thing that makes a language Indo-European is being descended from the Indo-European proto-language. Although there are certainly morphological, syntactic, and phonological characteristics that are vaguely "typically Indo-European", there's probably no linguistic property that all IE languages share to the exclusion of all non-IE languages. Angr (talk) 22:42, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Properties of the IE languages 

message: OK, I added the Dardic and Nuristani languages, but I have no idea on how early they are attested... =S Does someone else know? Maybe there hasn't been much research on the languages, because they haven't been classified in their own group for that long. 惑乱 分からん 16:59, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dardic and Nuristani 

message: There are over 15 millon in eastern Turkey (20% of population), plus 2 million in northeastern Syria (10% of population) IE-speakers which has not been colored on the map. This large population speak Kurdish language.
I Suggest to show countries (or at least part of them) which have IE-speakers. Whether those languages are unofficial or banned. Thanks
Diyako Talk + 16:53, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Forgotten large IE-speaker population

message: Does anyone know an approximate number of how many Languages, both living and dead, encompass the indo european family? - Christopher 05:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Ethnologue gives the estimate 449, but that excludes many dead languages, and includes controversial assumptions like (1) Albanian is four languages, (2) Danish is two languages, (3) Swedish is four languages, (4) Yinglish is a distinct language from English, (5) German is 18 languages, (6) Yiddish is two languages, (7) Greek is six languages, and so on. Angr/talk 07:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

text: it's impossible to count languages for fundamental reasons. At best, you can count officially endorsed standard languages, begging the question, of course, who gets to declare official definitions (the answer is, sovereign states, evidently making the question a purely political one). dab (ᛏ) 14:44, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: How many Languages encompass this family?

message: ok, I think this image is too large at the moment, and what's more, it is not arranged in a very useful way. It looks very complicated, but tells us nothing that an indented list couldn't. If we want a "list of languages" here, I suggest the image is replaced with a clickable list. Otherwise, I suggest the image is simply removed. dab (ᛏ) 14:44, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: there is no rhyme or reason to the arrangement. Topologically, it's identical to a simple bulletlist. I would tend to reject any "list of languages" on this article, unless we want to be bogged down by list of English dialects with a vengeance. Let us list the families, and people can click on the links to get a list of members of those families. If we start drawing trees or compiling lists, we will clutter the article with material that is already perfectly accessible, one click away. dab (ᛏ) 16:16, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

text: yes, what is wrong with it? it is perfectly clear and contains no meaningless redundancy. You can add touches of  design with CSS magic, if you feel it is necessary. dab (ᛏ) 20:47, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Image:IndoEuropeanTreeA.PNG]]

message: I already reverted 3 times, so... I'd rather take it to talk. To the anon IP: the sentence mentioning "a nationalistic flavor" and "national mysticism" do not refer exclusively to the Indian hypothesis, but to many others as well, usually hypotheses proposed by a person of a certain ethnicity or nationality, claiming that his/her homeland is the Urheimat etc. I suspect there are authoritative citations which have deemed such ideas as having a nationalist/national mystic flavor, so it would not be Original Research, and they would be usable opinions. Alexander 007 18:25, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: well, the "AIT" debate is a prime example of nationalistic highjacking of an academic debate. But there are others, many more than mentioned at the moment. In order not to expose the Indian nationalists unduly, more examples should be added. The phenomenon was very typical indeed in 19th and early 20th century Europe, the Hindutva crowd are not any worse, they are just a century late. I'll try to present a more coherent picture. dab (ᛏ) 09:41, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 3RR

message: This map is incorrect in what refers to the Iberian peninsula, since it reverses the geographical/linguistic areas. In Iberia the area presented in blue should be grey and the one in grey should be blue. In fact the one presently in blue was globaly the area of the Iberian language and Tartessian language (non-Indo-European languages), while the one presently in gray was in fact the one with Celtic and Proto-Celtic languages. See, for instance, this detailed map of the Pre-Roman Peoples and Languages of Iberia. This needs to be corrected. The Ogre 13:27, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right; I will try to fix it. Maybe I should leave Iberia aside altogether and say the map represents the situation at 500 BC? dab (ᛏ) 20:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with Diachronic Map of the [[Centum-Satem isogloss]]

message: please could some one tell me about my languge in more simplistic way. I tried to, but it is too comlicated...
:Avar language might help (assuming thats what you mean, judging by the title)? what's this got to do with Indo-European languages? --Krsont 14:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avars 

message: I thought the Kurgan hypothesis was about archaeology, not linguistics. Angr (talk) 21:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, yeah. But when I found this article, it was using linguistics to disprove the Anatolian hypothesis. The example chosen was a rickety wheel, as it were, so I took a kick at it. If some reader feels that this discussion belongs elsewhere (as it probably should), let him propose a better place for it... - Zimriel 21:27, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I propose Proto-Indo-Europeans. Angr (talk) 07:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: the entire point of the Kurgan hypothesis is the attempt to align archaeology with historical linguistics. I agree it should not be treated at length here, and a briefer summary should do. But please don't just delete material you cut from this article, move it to Kurgan hypothesis or Proto-Indo-Europeans instead. dab (ᛏ) 10:11, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the Kurgan hypothesis relevant to an "Indo-European languages" article? 

message: Since we get a lot of Persians determined to mention Farsi in the intro, maybe the list of languages given in the intro should be discussed? We settled for the seven largest living languages (more than 100M speakers). Per List of languages by number of native speakers, listing those with more than 50M would result in a list of twelve, including Farsi. But there are other possibilities: Hindustani could be grouped as a single language. We could list the most prominent language of each branch instead of the globally largest. Or other possibilities. dab (ᛏ) 12:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think since this is the lead section of the article, and all languages are mentioned further down the page, the list should be kept as short as possible. Since List of languages by number of native speakers does not group Hindi and Urdu together as Hindustani, I would say this page shouldn't either. I'm for keeping the 100 million mark and listing them in order per List of languages by number of native speakers: Hindi, Spanish, English, Portuguese, Bengali, Russian, French, German, Punjabi. Does anybody have a problem with that? User:Angr 13:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: that's fine with me. Precisely because the intro should be very brief, I would find it useful to link to Hindustani, but I don't mind much. dab (ᛏ) 14:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it's five letters longer than Hindi, and Urdu doesn't make the list anyway. Besides, even though I know it's a legitimate linguistic term, it still has connotations of British colonialism to me. ("The colonel is quite fluent in Hindoostanee," said Lord Featherstonehaugh as he poured the brandy..., that sort of thing.) User:Angr 15:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: fair enough :) dab (ᛏ) 17:53, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: the intro