Talk:List of converts to Judaism

message: User:Java7837 and User:SkyWriter have has complained on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism about the behavior of "anti-semites" on this page.  User:SkyWriter joined in that complaint without distancing himself from the use of the "anti-semite" epithet.  I see these complaints User:Java7837's complaint as a breach of Wikipedia's policies on civility.  Perhaps it is commonplace where you come from to malign people who disagree with you as anti-semites but I find this sort of loose rhetoric to be offensive.  Please stop it.  Mutter it under your breath if you must but keep it off Wikipedia's talk pages.
More importantly, there has been a long-running edit war on this article, apparently going back several months and resulting in an open RFC.  
The most recent outbreaks of edit-warring involved violations of WP:3RR by User:Jayjg and User:Skywriter on March 29 and User:Skywriter on April 5.  There are other editors involved in the edit war, most notably User:Jpgordon and User:Java7837.
:In at least one of the alleged 3RR violations (Jayjg on March 29), there were only 3 reverts, not the 4 required to constitute a violation of 3RR.  It is likely that my other allegations suffer from the same defect and, not being in the mood to go back and count those instances again, I retract all the allegations.  The point is: 3RR doesn't mean you should revert 3 times.  Consider WP:0RR or WP:BRD instead of pulling yourself up just 1 revert shy of 4 reverts.  --Richard (talk) 04:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't violate 3RR on March 29. Jayjg (talk) 02:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's it?  That's all you have to say?  Heck, I didn't violate 3rr either time, and that's not the point.  The point is that we were edit warring and have been for months.  Sure we both know to stop at 3 -- but it's still edit warring. SkyWriter (Tim) (talk) 02:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't been edit-warring for months. I first came across this issue on March 29, just over a week ago. You have been editing-warring about this for months; in fact, for over a year. I haven't been. Jayjg (talk) 03:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Agreed on all counts -- although I did not start off suspecting antisemitism, I did not argue against it either.  I would, however, request three things: 1) that uncivil actions be regarded as offensive as the description of those actions (on all sides here, guys -- EVERYONE needs to treat each other with respect and courtesy in both word AND deed), 2) that the Wikipedia notability guidelines (including both Jayjg's preferred section and my own cited section as well) be used as the basis for determination, and 3) that the names be visible either here or on the article page itself.  It's easy to argue against a vaccuum, but it serves little purpose.  Geza Vermes for instance, perhaps the most notable person on the entire list, was the first person deleted in this extended edit war.  Leaving the article in protected status with Geza Vermes missing would have not benefitted Wikipedia, and it would have left us with little idea regarding precisely WHO we were discussing.  Also, I'd like to add that both Jayjg and myself want to remove the red lines.  He simply wants to remove the names as well as the red lines as per the Wikipedia guidelines he's cited, and I merely want to remove the red lines as per the Wikipedia guidelines I've cited (both cited guidelines being on the same page of Wikipedia).  And, finally, I'd call on all sides to stop the contention.  Calling someone "uncivil" is as unhelpful as calling someone a "vandal".  Accusing someone of not assuming good faith is as unhelpful as losing faith in a person during a war.  And threatening someone with an "awkward position" is as unhelpful as any perceived personal attack.  It's time to discuss the issue, the guidelines, and the best way to proceed -- and to stop stonewalling and treating "SkyWriter" or "Jayjg" as the issue.  We are not the issue.  Wikipedia guidelines, cited by both sides, is the issue.  PS to Richardshusr -- you were the first person coming from the outside with a balanced approach, and I thank you.SkyWriter (Tim) (talk) 13:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I just did a quick check here and on the Judaism page and did not find anything from me accusing the other party of antisemitism.  I have speculated about this as a motivation for someone ignoring Wikipedia notability guidelines, but I did not do so here or on the Judaism page.  What I HAVE done is to call the repeated deletion of sourced information and repeated ignoring of cited Wikipedia guidelines as "vandalism."  If I'm incorrect, I apologize.  I believe I'm correct, and I'll STILL apologize.  But at some point Wikipedia guidelines need to at least be CONSIDERED and this sidetracking of saying "he's an antisemite-baiter" is grossly prejudicial and uncivil, and I ask the parties that have done so, including Richard, to retract that both here and on the Judaism project page.  The actions, accusations, and obfuscations toward me are in themselves uncivil, and even led me to doubt myself -- how much more someone else?  I even gave you the benefit of the doubt against my own memory.  In other words, I've taken my assumption of good faith way too far.  Again, I request an apology from everyone who has done this, just as they have requested an apology from me.  And if someone HAS offered to go halfway with me in the past and I've missed it, please point that out so that collaboration can occur.  To this point I have not yet seen any attempt to compromise or collaborate or even to assume good faith toward myself.  I'll PREsume good faith one last time and imagine that I simply missed it.  Please show me where it occurred.SkyWriter (Tim) (talk) 14:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Richard!  You've been the first person to budge and show consideration of both views here, and I'm very grateful.SkyWriter (Tim) (talk) 14:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Here is where Tim alleges anti-semitismn; User:Java7837 then appears to run with the balll at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism, but it was Tim's invention, and it's up to Tim to back down from it, as well as the unfounded and highly inappropriate accusations of vandalism.  --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 17:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

text: You didn't specify which guideline you were referring to, despite requests that you do so. Jayjg (talk) 02:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's on the same page as the guideline you are citing.  I've said that numerous times now.SkyWriter (Tim) (talk) 03:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Which guideline was I citing? Please give the time and date of the comment where I cited a guideline (aside from the comment I made a few minutes ago, at 02:23, 8 April 2009). Jayjg (talk) 03:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I'm familiar with the notability guidelines. They don't cover your edits, at least not in the way you claim they do; Malik has explained why below. You've taken them out of context, and context is crucial. If you want to draw peoples' attention to a specific guideline, then you need to link to the guideline in question, or at least name it. I have yet to see you do so; even now. Jayjg (talk) 03:28, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit warring and incivility must stop 

message: I think if you read paganism, you'll see that it's a loose and unscholarly blanket term for the various religions of antiquity. "Paganism" was a term invented by Christians to create an us vs. them dichotomy; see this definition of "Pagan" from  Peter Brown. It's meaningless to call a Canaanite religion "paganism." We have no article named "ancient Roman paganism," for instance, for the very reason that no such thing existed; see Religion in ancient Rome. I don't have the knowledge to deal with ancient Semitic religions, but I hope someone will provide more helpful links within a scholarly frame of reference to the relevant religions. Cynwolfe (talk) 15:48, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Paganism" 

message: Where is the list of converts???  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.97.153.133 (talk) 06:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: This article is empty!!

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following pages seem to have an identical purpose to this one. To save time and improve coverage, I propose that they be merged into this one. What do people think?
*List of converts to Judaism from Christianity
*List of converts to Judaism from Islam
*List of converts to Judaism from paganism
*List of converts to Judaism from non-religious backgrounds
Jontel (talk) 14:51, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the proposal, and suggest to merge these sub-pages of converts to Judaism from various religions as separate sections of this page.--GenoV84 (talk) 13:49, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal

message: Darius the Mede could not have been a convert to Judaism since he is a fictional character, not a really existing person. Tgeorgescu (talk) 13:16, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the Bible isn't fictional, I have one myself. However, in the WP-context it is not a WP:Reliable source for historical information. And since you want to write on WP, that matters. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:49, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darius the Mede 

message: Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars#Judaism indicates doubts about the extent of Khazar conversion perhaps "Khazars ... many of whom converted to Judaism en masse" in # 1.2 "Other converted nations, groups or tribes" should be edited. Mcljlm (talk) 03:24, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khazars 

message: according to the article Ibrahim Shaheen did not convert. only his wife did after his death. Chazir (talk) 11:24, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  converts from islam