Talk:Battle of Mogadishu (1993)/Archive 2

message: The remains of Shughart and Gordon were pulled through the roads of Mogadishu by the Somali mob. This is not mentioned here. But my question is: How did the U.S. Forces get them back?
: I presume that U.S. forces found the remains when they went back into the city to get the rest of their dead and wounded that were still stuck and isolated in small pockets.Or they saw them on the ground as they were flying over (since this battle wasnt the exact end of the U.S. presence in somalia). This is a good question, however i dont know if it should be discussed, or placed in this article. Some people may get a bit touchy on somthing like this.(Ryan 02:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That is correct President Clinton moved a Carrier Battle Group, and a Marine Expeditionary force just off the coast of Somali. PPGMD 15:16, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  soldiers remains 

message: The article discusses the consequences for American politics and policies but says nothing about the consequences in Somalia.  Did this event have any effect on subsequent events in Somalia?
The article, like the book and movie Black Hawk Down, seems to be based mainly on American and European sources.  I don't agree that information from American sources should be suppressed to balance the lack of information available from other sources, but the article would be much improved by contributions from researchers with access to other sources.
:Not much has changed, Adid took over the rest of the city, and I believe the country. His son (or was it Grandson), took over the country over Adid died, haven't heard much since then. PPGMD 18:28, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Aidid ended up controlling the city, but he died shortly after of a heart attack. His son took over the city, but lost significant controll and power due to infighting. The remainder of the country outside of Mogadishu remains in chaos, with no clear ruler except regional warlords. Swatjester 07:39, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  See that link, it says "Radio South Mogadishu, Aidid's radio station, reported that he died Thursday of a heart attack "while performing his national duties."" Swatjester 03:08, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh...hello...my link is from CNN. did you even read the page? It says he died from a heart attack he received while being treated for an infection from being shot. Swatjester 12:57, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

text: No problem. Swatjester 23:09, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

text:  They did pull out, but I'm pretty sure that there is still money being funded towards private aid efforts. I'd have to research though, I can't be certain. Swatjester 23:09, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consequences for Somalia?  Somali perspective in general? 

message: I think there should be more info on mohammed so people can learn who he is because right now if u just read that page there is basciccaly nothing on him.-hthfirebird-january 25 2006
So do it. This isn't the page for him. Swatjester 03:14, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  mohammed 

message: The first section states approximately 1000 Somali militiamen and civilians lost their lives, the Operation Gothic Serpent section states Casualties on the Somali side were heavy, with estimates on fatalities from 500 to over 2000 people and the Operation Gothic Serpent article states Estimates of enemy dead range from 300 to 500 Somali Militiamen killed. --mordemur 14:26, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As we have discussed here before it's hard to guage the number of dead because there has yet to be a stable government in the country to even try. Most perdictions I have seen have been between 1000-2000, but it's hard to say how many of those were militiamen because the men would hide in the crowds, the US Forces were forced to shot into said crowds to defend themselves. PPGMD 15:52, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I understand, but this is a single encyclopedia stating the same figure differently in three ways. Granted the three sentences differ with "militiamen and civilians", "people" and "militiamen", but with such (understandable) vagueness on any official figure these three statements should probably be consolidated. --mordemur 08:59, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistencies 

message: I am of the understanding the initial phase of the operation was successful, and the targets meeting in the building were detained and captured (before the major fighting broke out).  What ever happened to them?  Did they escape during the battle? --NEMT 20:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I know of, there were captured and placed into convoy vehicles, some died during the fire fight though. PPGMD 18:16, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I seem to remember Bowden's book saying that the targets were held in custody for several days but were eventually handed back. Maybe in an exchange that involved Durant? I no longer have the book with me to check, but perhaps someone else can take a look.
Aidid was not captured Nielswik 03:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Aidid was not a target for this day, he was a target for the overall operation, but he wasn't a target for the operation that resulted in the Battle of Mogadishu. PPGMD 14:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As stated on page 61 of this PDF:. The targets were 2 members of the "tier 1" list, not Aidid. --Mmx1 17:24, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  targets captured? 

message: Because Wikipedia is not a memorial. UnDeadGoat 18:21, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The list is not a memorial, it's simply a known list of the dead from the operation, thats why it's coverages all the forces involved as best as we can. PPGMD 01:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's an interesting piece of information. If a list of Somalis would exist, it would be added to, and not in order to make a "memorial". Rob1bureau 00:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted casualty list 

message: Cocerninng civilan deaths attributed to this cause, i believe the claims made by the us millitary to be simply a propaganda. and just goes to show their ignorence about somali society. somalis are a tribal people and if you kill someone from another tribe, their family or caln will avenge them by either killing you or somebody from your caln.
:Well, what you(or anyone else) "believe" is irrelevant in Wikipedia, unless verifiable, per WP:OR. Please note I'm not saying you're wrong, or right.--ᎠᏢ462090 23:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: HUMAN SHIELDS

message: Why does a Blackhawk Down search redirect to this page?
The Battle of Mogadishu was a historical event, while 'Blackhawk Down' is a movie. BD is not historically accurate, nor does it claim historical accuracy. Not credible for the two things to be conflated. If any feels like removing this redirect... Centrepull 18:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't we just decide. Sometimes it redirects here, sometimes to the movie, sometimes thee book.It seems to change everyday--Coasttocoast 22:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blackhawk Down search redirects here 

message: I see no reason for this to remain a separate article, and it seems rather unmaintained.  Any addition information should be merged in here and then redirected. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 21:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing in there that isn't in this article. Just redirect it. PPGMD 21:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge and redirect "Op TFR" here. While we are at it, what about Operation Gothic Serpent, same applies to it (also smaller and duplicate)... --Deon Steyn 06:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Operation Gothic Serpent is a slightly larger operation, I think that it could be expanded to make an article that could stand on it's own. This article is about the events that covered two days, while Gothic Serpent can cover the entire operation by Task Force Ranger. PPGMD 13:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm pretty sure Gothic Serpent was a more general operation, while TFR was basically the specific american assault that led to this battle.  Gothic should remain separate, because it covers a couple of months of action in more depth than would be appropriate for here. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 16:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Okay, let's leave Gothic Serpent for now, but it seems everyone is an agreement that we merge (or simply redirect) TFR? --Deon Steyn 11:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operation TFR 

message: I find this section exclusively reflects the american government POV. This section doesn't seem to consider the criticism reflected in the Somali Civil War article.
The main reasons for Somalia, Kuwait, Irak and Afghanistan interventions are economic IMO. Somalia's former pro-american dictator Siad Barre granted oil concessions to the US before being deposed. Irak and Kuwait have two of the biggest oil reserves in the world, the main customer being US. Afghan itself has gas reserves and is key for the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline. The US president, vicepresident and several secretaries have been previously employed in energy companies who got oil, gas and energy infrastructure concessions after american intervention in these countries. Yokosuna 15:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Both Kuwait and Somalia were requested by the UN. Afghanistan was the base of operation of someone that attacked the US causing nearly 2,900 deaths. Iraq, well that's debatable. PPGMD 15:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality of 'Background to the battle' concern