Talk:Bishop Stopford's School

message: Good basis for great wiki article. Lots of info. Beware copyright of song and prayer etc. Pictures good addition. References essential to get "good article" status. Victuallers 09:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Assess

message: Plaquett - ten house points - or was it three! Rich Farmbrough 13:08, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it was the Merit that was three house points.  SandJ-on-WP (talk) 11:26, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Plaquett

message: Don't know why the upper case A of 'At' has been replaced by a lower. It's part of a title so should be capitalised. I have seen quite a bit of this on wikipedia. any comments? DavidFarmbrough (08:40 BST 14 Jul 2005)
The school's own website has a small "a", so I'm moving the article. Rich Farmbrough 18:04, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: At or at?

message: I thought the current head styled herself Headteacher. This is what she uses in letters to parents and other places on the School website. DavidFarmbrough 13:50 BST 24 Aug 2005 WMD
:Probably does. I'm with Geo on this one. Self identification, I suppose..... Rich Farmbrough 09:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way good contemporary edits from our anon IP author. Rich Farmbrough 09:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Headteacher or Headmistress?

message: CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHETHER THEY STILL WRITE "With My Duty", as when I was there we used the acronym, "WMD". I don't thinik Ofsted would like seeing Weapons of Mass Destruction at the top of every piece of work. Further more, can anyone tell me where I can get a copy of Treading on the Camomile? User:152.78.254.243 02:36, 7 November 2005, I always wrote With my Duty, this was heavily enforced early on right up until Mrs Evans turned up, when it was not seen as being so important. (Nathan P. Bridle) 01/04/2006
:AFAIK They still write With My Duty - the recent revisions were done by someone with current knowledge of the school - so I guess if this had been abandoned this would have been changed along with the loss of the Choir Form and the Beating Of The Bounds. TOTC should be available from the School (they were selling copies at £6 at Geo's memorial service a couple of months back) - although they may redirect you to the Parents And Friends - DavidFarmbrough 09:47, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: With My Duty/Treading On The Camomile

message: What was it? Sounds harsh!
:I talked about this on the Iain Lee show on LBC (9 August 2005) when he asked people to telephone in with acconts of unusual punishments. I think forgiveness varied over the years but on the two occasions I had to do it I was made to carry bricks round the Yard for about an hour, and had to do lots of press-ups. The third occasion I opted for the blue shorts as I didn't want to waste my time! DavidFarmbrough 10:25, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Forgiveness was harsh and it was meant to be.  When I started at Bishops, the cane was still in use.  One of the other boys in my class of 1C got the cane.  By the time I was in the 5th year, the cane was no longer in use, and that was 1981 (not 1987 like the article says).  However, Forgiveness also applied to School Detentions.  Prefect Detentions, Private (Teacher's) Detentions and Class Detentions were all fairly short affairs after school.  The far more serious School Detention, like the cane, required a letter to go home to the parents to be signed prior to the punishment.  Since some kids would get a damn good hiding at home for being in trouble, Forgiveness had been brought in as an option for those pupils: parents were not informed if you opted for Forgiveness.  When I was there it usually comprised either running round the field all lunch time in your underwear and bare feet, or all lunch time in the gym going up and down and round the wall bars in underwear and bare feet.  There was kudos in doing Forgiveness: it was perceived as tougher than the cane and was definitely worse than School Detention.  But, your parents never found out.  However, I never heard mention of 'trial by shorts' when I was there.  SandJ-on-WP (talk) 11:34, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Forgiveness

message: Alas, the new Headteacher, Mrs. Bridget Evans, has got rid of a lot of the traditions which made the school so special. This can only be a sad thing. The School's traditions should be upheld at all costs. (comment moved from article to talk page) 86.137.172.17
:That may be so but we can't put our opionions in the article as it just has to be factual. My view is that it is principally the traditions which keep the school notable, in the absence of any academic distinction. Therefore, to ensure it has a place in wikipedia, where a tradition has been abandoned or modified, the former practice should be set out with additional wording setting out the current practice. I am pretty sure they would have abandoned the blue and black shorts thing, as corporal punishment is frowned upon these days, so perhaps someone who has attended or taught at the school during the last twenty years can update this section. DavidFarmbrough 12:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New Headteacher/Changes to traditions

message: Is there an old Stopfordian society, there should be
:AFAIK Bishop Stopford's Old Boys which was the original alumni organisation changed to The Stopfordians in about 1990, and is a going concern. They haven't issued a newsletter for a while. While we're on the subject of old Stopfordians, are there really only two famous old Stopfordians? That is pathetic compared with Stonyhurst College. What about that old boy who came back and donated some of his 'art' to the school. He was supposedly famous, does anyone remember his name? Also is Benedict "Benny" Huggins (brother of Warren "Woz" Huggins) really presenting a programme on Sky TV as stated in the Friends Reunited Famous ex-pupils section? DavidFarmbrough 10:06, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I was not surprised by the difference, I wasn't comparing the performances of the two schools' ex-pupils, more the information that was posted here about them (even if you ignore Stonyhurst's pre-1967 existence). Suffolks pupils could count if they transferred to Bishop's. DavidFarmbrough 12:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Old Stopfordians

message: Are they really planning to destroy them? They are classic Stopfords. Designed to last a year and have been there for 30 years. I can't believe they would be destroyed if the legend that is Mr. Solly was still there. For those who didn't go to Stopford's Mr. Solly was surely one of the greatest English teachers of all time, in any school. He was also the greatest disciplinarian of his age.
:He was a very amusing teacher, but I thought his discipline was normal. Rich   Farmbrough. 18:07, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: South East Wing Huts

message: If you find Bishop's on Google World you can see toilet roll around where the boys changing  rooms were. Possibly the only toliet roll visible on the whole world, and it has to be Bishop's! Rich   Farmbrough. 18:07, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you give a link please? DavidFarmbrough 12:30, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: YOu will need to download googleEarth I think. Quite a big download. Rich   Farmbrough. 12:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Toilet roll

message: Now Dr. Roberts has passed on it would be nice if someone could write a decent length article on him. I would do one on Mr. Pickard however as he is still alive it would be unfair.
Dr Geoffrey Roberts Head Master 1967 1988
Geoffrey Roberts became the School’s first Head Master in 1967, himself an English 
Graduate of Sheffield University where he met his wife, Betty, also an English Graduate and teacher of English. He often stated that the school had been founded in the teeth of fierce opposition by the then Enfield Council, which was the reason for his choice of the Camomile plant as the school’s symbol of defiance: ‘The camomile, common plant of the fields, the more it is trodden on, the faster it grows’. Many generations of Stopfordians will remember these words which were annually recited as the old Head boy/girl gave way to their successors and handed this plant to them in a silver bowl while reciting this quotation in assembly at the end of the summer term. This bowl was always carried into all assemblies along with the school roll, which every member of staff and pupil were expected to sign and which was regarded as a ‘bond with this world and the next’, underlining the Christian vision of the school. 
As a schoolmaster, Dr Roberts inspired many generations of Stopfordians with an utterly traditional approach to education. The school was run on a very strict basis and there was an absolute insistence on uniform being worn correctly and homework being completed on time. Pupils would stand if a member of staff entered the room, and corporal punishment was allowed until its abolition in 1987. Improperly dressed pupils were sent home. Dr Roberts could appear as quite tyrannical to the younger pupils and would often tap on the door of a classroom with his cane before entering. He would also instigate special assemblies to deal with disciplinary issues, during which he would bellow loudly at the gathered pupils and wave his cane for dramatic effect. 
However, those who grew to know him better as they progressed in the school discovered a man of acute intelligence and learning, who used the English language in a remarkable and powerful fashion, inspired by a love of literature many of his pupils carry with them. He very much enjoyed quotation and would particularly relish explaining biblical allusions in writers such as Conrad, Lawrence and Shaw as well as demonstrating a profound understanding of Shakespeare. It is a tribute to his energy that he completed his doctoral thesis on Shaw’s ‘Androcles and the Lion’ in his summer holidays over some twelve years. He was also the director of the main school play, and produced ‘Oedipus Rex’, ‘The Merchant of Venice’,’ She stoops to Conquer’,’ Othello’, ‘The Crucible’, among others. 
During his twenty-one years at the school, he is perhaps most famous for the instigation of the school’s many traditions. The beating of the bounds on Ascension Day was a race round the school’s boundaries where the competitors would ‘beat’ the school boundaries with small ropes in the Anglo-Saxon tradition of securing an area. Again, a symbolical act of defiance against the local bureaucrats! He always rewarded the competitors with tea and cakes afterwards. The prefect system with its hierarchy of coloured gowns, from grey to deep blue! Some will remember the Christening of the school bell or the weekly lunch for visitors in his dining-room, preceded by liberal servings of Croft Original, Amontilado or Luncheon Dry!
Many Old Stopfordians may not realise that Dr Roberts also generated funds for the school by running three tuck shops, and stocking them himself with a number of trips to a local cash and carry in Ponders End. It is also true that many may have missed one of his greatest qualities: the capacity for self-parody and satire. Beneath the surface of an apparently austere man, an instinctive grasp of the absurd was never far away. Thus, behind the conventional schoolmaster, there lay an anarchic humour, which was often curbed by his loyal wife who warned him against the dangers of his more eccentric schemes, such as the plaque for the aforesaid bureaucrats to be connected to the boys’ changing-rooms where they may smell’ urine, armpits and sweaty socks for all eternity’. 
Geoffrey Roberts was once heard to say that he began the school with some empty classrooms and a broken test tube rack and ended his time there, ‘a time-worn vessel of a mummified husk’. That may be so, but his vision endures. --Taylorgaryt (talk) 10:17, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dr Roberts

message: I am aware of what a three line whip in terms of parliament but it is mentioned on the stopford's friends reunited page as something to do with Dr. Roberts. Could David or Richard shed any light on this matter. I would also love to hear some more stories from u2 about the early days of stopfords so i can compare it to when i was there in the 1990s.
:Doesn't ring a bell with me. Rich   Farmbrough. 12:51, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Three Line whip

message: The Four Fold Salute is:
GLORIA DEO
VIVAT REGINA
PROCEDAT LUDUS
FLOREAT CHAMEALEUM
or something like that. Whilst I know what it means when was it used and what significance did it have as I cannot remember hearing it once.
Also, any details on the promised bio of the organ?
:AFAICR This used to be printed on things like the Rule Book and orders of service for Founder's Day and the Service Of Nine Lessons And Carols. It may have been spoken, but I can't recall any instances of this. DavidFarmbrough 09:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Four fold salute 

message: I have moved the details of his death here as it is essentially a news item. Also, I didn't feel that I should remove the author's comments on his popularity etc., whereas they couldn't really remain on the main page. DavidFarmbrough 09:34, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mr July 

message: When I was at Stopford's we used the numbering system 1 - 5 for year groups. In the Mr. July section 11G is mentioned, does this mean the school has sadly moved to the new 7-13 numbering system or was it 1G mistyped?
:I think this has been done all over the country. The number is supposed to represent the number of years you have been in the education system, but is flawed because you have the same form number at the start of the academic year as at the end of it, and also because you have some children starting at 3 and others at 4 or 5. I am often told by teachers that the Dept. Of Education seems to introduce a lot of change for the sake of it. DavidFarmbrough 16:15, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Form numbers 

message: Does anyone remember the Stopford run for boys at the start of every term?
And WINTER SPORTS, across Fawlty Hall.
:Yes, the cross-country run was a bit of a waste of time, although it wasn't for me, as I managed not to do it after that first year. 
I think it's Forty Hall, rather than Fawlty Hall, but I don't remember any sports there during 1978-1985. DavidFarmbrough 17:44, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is indeed Forty Hall.  We occasionally used to do a cross country run round the grounds of Forty Hall.  Sometimes it was just for PE bit I also took part in one which was competitive with a finish line with parents present.  I was there 1975 to 1981.
We also used to use the sports arena on the other side of the A10.  SandJ-on-WP (talk) 11:46, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sport 

message: Thanks for adding the additional info. I have tweaked this to wikify but can't find "Steven Hanness" on the IMDB list of cast and crew for "The Importance of Being Earnest". Does anyone know what role he played? Is there a source for this?
Lucy Bolster may have married one of Blue, but which one? I couldn't find details of the wedding in the BBC news archive, nor any details on Blue's home page.
Got a lot more on Benny Huggins, who seems to have done well for himself - he used to be an estate agent in Enfield.
"Stuart Taylor - Journalist" is a bit brief - do we know for which publications?
Also, did David Kort become successful as an actor in the end? DavidFarmbrough 14:02, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Selected Old Stopfordians (again) 

message: Is it true there were some dodgy goings on at the school, particularly involving Dr. Roberts.
:I think you need to be more specific. FWIW I think Dr Roberts's moral standards were very high. DavidFarmbrough 10:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How incredibly vague.  And unsigned.  SandJ-on-WP (talk) 11:48, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  dodgy goings on 

message: any ideas on the clean up? i corrected some unhelpful edits and thanks for the info on WMD and the new uniform although i though it proper to include the line re. gowns as for many they are an integral part of the school. shame the new headmistress seems to intent on abolishing everything that makes stopfords great.
:I removed the clean-up tag because I don't think it needs clean-up in the wikipedia sense. It probably would benefit from further information being added, but I think everything that is there is fine. DavidFarmbrough 10:46, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  clean up 

message: Are the toilets in every secondary school in England referred to as 'the bogs'? Was this just a Stopfordian thing? DavidFarmbrough 10:50, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My older siblings from from the North of England and used the term.  It was used in my junior school.  It has been used in my workplaces.  I think it is at least an English thing, if not wider.  It is in the urban Dictionary too: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bogs   SandJ-on-WP (talk) 11:51, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Bogs 

message: The school song is known to bring some masters and mistresses, as well as students, to tears. Mrs. Chalmers, who was a student at the school and went on to become Head of Geography, found it hard to complete the hymn without crying. This was by no means uncommon. Pupils have always been expected to learn the school song in the First Year and many will have memories of the former Director of Music, Mr. Smith teaching it to them.  	 
- 		 
- 	Mr. Smith taught at the school since it opened in 1967 and was the Director of Music up until his retirement in 2002. He played the school organ in every assembly and was one of the most loved teachers by many. His organ playing was first class, he is a Fellow of the Royal College of Church Musicians and is the only man in the country to have played on every Cathedral organ. Every Stopfordian will remember his interpretation of the hymn "Christian Dost Thou See Them", during which he added an extra two notes to which the hole congregation proceeded to bob up and down once. He was famous for singing and playing the organ at the same time and he ran the choir form. Since his departure there was one more Director of Music, Mr. D. Bruton, however all since then have not taken this title, and have, alas, not been able to play the organ. This has meant that on numerous occasions throughout the year Mr. Smith returns to play the organ however it does mean that pupils today do not get the daily dose of organ music they used to.  
Rich Farmbrough, 12:21 27  February 2007 (GMT).
:Why was this removed it is of obvious interest and import! Removal of words such as 'alas' and any opinion will make it an entirely reasonable and informative piece. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.145.95.231 (talk) 18:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it was removed because it is what is called 'school-cruft' - not quite right for an encyclopaedia. It's OK to say that someone was 'loved by many' on Friends Reunited, but difficult to substantiate,which is what would be needed for it to be included here. Would this also lead to a list of teachers that are despised by many? DavidFarmbrough 14:38, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chunk removed from article some time ago, but of passing interest

message: When did the Temples area change from the lower West wing to the old Trintiy area?
I remember for four years my form room was W3 under the direction of Miss Glennie with Mrs Leverington and Mr Bruton as heads of house.Good to see temples as house champs again tho!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.120.28 (talk) 01:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  House areas 

message: In the literature given out to newcomers to the school parents are asked to provide a Bible that is GNB, NIV or CEV. To mention the NEB is therefore misleading. The Religious Studies Department (previously called Divinity ... this title was questioned by Church inspectors so changed) uses both the NIV and the CEV for study, depending on age and context.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.133.124 (talk) 11:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This has clearly changed, we had to provide three books, Hymns Ancient and Modern, Revised , Phillips Scool Atlas and a Bible, I believe the GNB.  There  was certainly no choice in the version. Also house coloured football kit, white athletics kit, a carpentry apron and of course uniform including blazer.  In those days there was of course no requirement for a pocket calculator, my HP-35 was seen as mysterious wonder by my peers - when I dared bring it to school. Rich Farmbrough, 00:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bible 

message: The latest update on the new buildings was dated Feb 2008 on the school home page. Yet the latest buildings were due for completion in April. Presumably then, just like the new gym and the Orchard Wing, it's behind schedule. Anyone know the position? DavidFarmbrough (talk) 23:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Building Update? 

message: Commonly known as...
*"Bishop Stopford's Maths and computing School" -wikipedia 4 of which 2 are wikpedia derived and 2 are a google-catcher spam site.
*"Bishop Stopford's School at Enfield" -wikipedia 49
*"Bishop Stopford's School" -wikipedia 2170
Moreover the school website does not refer to it with this name. on this basis I am reverting the page move, and removing the reference to the name.
Rich Farmbrough, 13:33 2 September 2008 (GMT).
:Please try to discuss this article move here; the article and talk page were moved to separate locations, and I have moved the article at the moment to match the talk page at Bishop Stopford's Maths and Computing School. --Jh12 (talk) 19:52, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The school web site and 'Messenger' refer to it simply as 'Bishop Stopford's School'. Ofsted's site uses the same nomenclature. DavidFarmbrough (talk) 04:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: We were, I believe always told it was eleven miles or twenty-two kilometres from Ware to Enfield Lock (in as straight a line as can be managed after stopping at the various hostelries on the way). But the conversion doesn't work. 22 km is about 13 miles. Looking at Google maps, the distance would appear to be about 10 miles or 16 kilometres. So do we owe all those people who sponsored us per kilometre a refund? Perhaps someone who has done the walk more recently than twenty three years ago can check the map and pinpoint the precise start and finish points to get an accurate measurement.
P.S. Old Roberts was a cunning sort. He realised that by measuring in KM he could more or less double the sponsor money! 
P.P.S. Does the Chaplain still bless the pilgrims? (Geo remarked that one of the pupils observed "T'aint the sime, is it sir? Nah ol' Lahry's Not 'ere to bless us'").DavidFarmbrough (talk) 23:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The school web site says again 22km. Rich Farmbrough, 23:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pilgrimage: 11 m or 22 km? 

message: I've remmed out a sentence beginning "A new building project is due to commence during 2007..." since it is now May 2009. The text is still there in the edit box if someone wants to update it. Alarics (talk) 08:32, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Out of date 

message: "Because of the religious context of this phrase, many teachers no longer enforce the "WMD" rule, accepting that it maybe offensive to non-christians" -- Are we quite sure this is really true? Why on earth would people send their kids to a Christian school if they are offended by Christianity? Alarics (talk) 12:06, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Duty is hardly an exclusively Christian concept, either. Rich Farmbrough, 09:40, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "With My Duty" offensive to non-Christians?? 

message: While these are very nice they make the top of the article a disjointed mess. Rich Farmbrough, 22:01, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok I tidied some other stuff up there. Still think they are overkill. Rich Farmbrough, 00:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Tables

message: Removed these claims, the first is almost certainly false (Picketts Lock for example must be larger) the second at least dubious (presumably it means largest "roll" - of course all pupils and staff are still on the school roll, so it is a little larger than some...).
"The school has London's largest sports hall, and is the largest school in Enfield."
:Rich Farmbrough, 09:38, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Largest

message: I'm tagging you since you are a constructive editor who seems to have taken an interest in the article last year. I've removed a portion of the unsourced and promotional content. A lot more, like the unreferenced inclusion of traditions, ought to go. Your thoughts welcome. Cheers, 2601:188:0:ABE6:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 15:17, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The main source for the traditions is Robert's book.  I have a copy somewhere, I will keep an eye out for it.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 01:49, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

text: *Much appreciated. Even with a reliable source, probably a good portion of what's there is too trivial for inclusion. Thanks for your response. 2601:188:0:ABE6:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 02:19, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lots of unsourced 

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thread_title:  External links modified