Talk:Hizbul Mujahideen

message: I personally think that Hizbul Mujahideen are freedom fighter, and i know most Indians view them as terrorist, but the neutral term should be Kashmiri militants or Kashmiri separatist. Also the article mentions Azad Kashmir as Pakistan administered Kashmir, so Jammu and Kashmir should also be listed as Indian administered Kashmir. IP198 23:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Militant 

message: what do u mean by pakistan occupied kashmir? if so y not indian occupied kashmir? kashmir is an internationally recognised disputed territory y was the word "indian state of kashmir" used? this is clear intellectual discimination.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.185.91.97 (talk) 12:08, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  what is pakistan occupied kashmir? 

message: balochistan will gain freedom? waziristan is semi-autonomous? what do u says about khalistan? if BLA r freedom fighters then men of the khalistan zindabad force, akali dal, bhabar dal, khalistan commando force all r freedom fighters. santh jarnail singh longowal and bhindrawale are well celebrated sikh fihters, what do u say abt tat?............. wat do u say abt the naxalites? wat abt the maoists? 55000 indian troops cant even control 2000 naxalite "freedom fighters". 700,000 indian troops cant control 10 million kashmiris and 5000 kashmiri "freedom fighters". the worlds heavily millitarized territory is kashmir 1 indian soldier to approx. 13 people, do u hav any such example in the wolrd? india in tat sense has 16 "freedom" struggles and 80 "freedom fighter" groups!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.185.91.97 (talk) 12:14, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  what about india? 

message: I can't believe that Wikipedia has used words like "Azad Kashmir". Is "Azad Kashmir" a country? Have they declared independence? Has this country been recogonised by any other country which is part of the United Nations? I don't think even Pakistan which claims to provide "moral support" (Note: Supplying weapons, training various nationals including Pakistanis, funding is defined as "moral support" in Pakistan's political and military dictionary) to "Kashmiri freedom struggle" has recogonised this so called "Azad Kashmir". Pakistan names the Chief Minister of "Azad Kashmir" as Prime Minister which is like fancy designations doled out by some companies which actually does not mean what that designation is supposed to mean. 
How many Kashmiri's are there in this "Azad Kashmir"? What is the demographic profile of this "Azad Kashmir"? Is there any international organisation which is willing to conduct a demographic profile check and declare that "Azad Kashmir" has only Kashmiris. In such case, India might even be ready to go for a referrendum.
Use of words like this does not augur well for a Wikipedia's reputation for being unbiased and neutral. Would really appreciate it if Wikipedia uses terms like "Pakistan Administered Kashmir" and "Indian Administered Kashmir", terminologies used by most of the countries which are not claiming stakes in this disputed area.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.160.208.50 (talk) 06:56, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Azad Kashmir? 

message: Hizbul Mujahideen Real and official name Is, Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. Killzonefan3456 (talk) 20:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Offical Name 

message: So, the quote I see reads:
"We are fighting Pakistan's war in Kashmir and if it withdraws its support, the war would be fought inside Pakistan”
—Sayeed Salahudeen (leader of Hizbul Mujahideen)
 
It seems to me that a Pakistani freedom fighter would not be fighting against other Pakistanis in Pakistan. I would opine (with an admitted total ignorance of the truth of the matter) that Sayeed is fighting his own war for his own beliefs, and labeling it Pakistan's War so as to garner additional support and legitimacy for a cause which lacks both. Threatening to bring war to Pakistan if it withdraws its support from your cause seems like very blatant terrorism to me. But I guess it comes down to whether or not the Pakistani government legitimately reflects the will of the governed, which seems unlikely. As one of the above users states, they should "raise thier voice through the democratic way, not by gun, because gun only can make noise" (though I would add that gun can also make bullet). 
Perhaps these labels do not so much define groups that behave differently, but instead define which faction is currently the more powerful. Terrorists that eventually win become known as freedom fighters, and freedom fighters that never win become known as terrorists. I (only half-jokingly) propose the term 'Freedom Terrorists' be used throughout this article instead. 192.249.47.163 (talk) 18:40, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Freedom Fighter, Terrorist, or Both? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have included information on the (brief) time Sabzar Bhat spent as leader of the HM, as well as his death and the subsequent diplomatic protest from Pakistan. If there is a reason this content should not be included, I am open to a rational rationale. PvOberstein (talk) 18:35, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It can be included, but WP:WEIGHT should be followed. The Burhan Wani section needs to be expanded. The 2016 Kashmir unrest owes to his death. However, Sabzar Bhat should not be used to overshadow Burhan Wani, as per WP:WEIGHT. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:52, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sabzar Bhat 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I find the predominance of sources saying that this organization is a terrorist organization. Per WP:TERRORIST we can follow what majority of sources say. I had changed the lead for providing an idea how I would like to change the lead. I recommend the such to be the new lead of the article, anyone with objection is welcome to comment. 
Thanks ML talk 14:04, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You are misrepresenting sources because your source didn't said "Indian side of conflict". Very low amount of people exists on "other side" that considers them as freedom fighters. The page would become POV cruft if such false balance has been provided. To call this group a terrorist group is clearly not anti-Islamic and even if it is, it is just wholly irrelevant here. ML talk 09:08, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: I would like to move this article to Hizb-Ul Mujahideen as that is its official name. Amazingcaptain (talk) 17:24, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you link to their official website or another official document for everyone to see? Based on Google search, Hizbul Mujahideen is the most popular spelling, followed by (in random order) Hizb ul-Mujahideen, Hizb-ul-Mujahideen and Hizb Ul Mujahideen. I didn't really come across your unusual spelling, however. — kashmīrī TALK 17:29, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Official web sites do not matter. The name used in RS does. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:31, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  The OP wrote about "official name", hence I am asking for a proof. — kashmīrī TALK 20:29, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:   It turns out I cannot find a source for it and that I may be in the wrong here. If the name of the article is 'Hizbul Mujahideen', then why in the lede we have it as 'Hizb-Ul Mujahideen'? Can we change it to 'Hizbul Mujahideen (or Hizb-Ul Mujahideen)'? Amazingcaptain (talk) 05:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change title to Hizb-Ul Mujahideen 

message: Someone recently replaced "separatist militant group" with "extremist militant group" in the lede. Do others think this is a proper descriptor? Amazingcaptain (talk) 09:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Amazingcaptain, This is part of a much larger debate which can also be seen at Talk:Riyaz Naikoo. Do you think this deserves a single coordinated debate rather than one that is spread across multiple pages? DTM (talk) 12:09, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is extremist a proper descriptor for the HuM? 

message: I removed the word "separatist" from the lead sentence. As a cursory look at separatism shows, the term means seeking independence or separate existence. Hizbul Mujahideen doesn't want that. There are no scholarly sources using the term for Hizbul Mujahideen. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:41, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separatist?