Talk:Spermidine

message: Spermidine is the chemical that gives a male's semen its smell.  It helps to protect the DNA from harm before it reaches the egg.
There's more info here: http://www.moleculeoftheday.com/2006/06/15/spermine-dna-packing-material/ Apparently it helps pack DNA and possibly acts as a buffer to help sperm survive on its journey to the egg. And as to the above poster (the above above, not directly), yes wikipedia articles (particlarly science ones) are sometimes lacking in some info & hard to get your head round, but some info, as long as it's true info, is better than none :)TrentandtheAcrobats (talk) 09:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I suggest deleting the entire section entitled "sources" since the two links don't support the Wikipedia author's general speculation.  While it may be true that some of the foods listed are higher in spermidine than other foods, the research is nowhere near comprehensive and so it is mere speculation that the foods listed would beat out most foods available in general, since the list is based on a limited number of foods tested.  Regardless, grapefruit is not listed in either of the links except as grapefruit juice from three samples (which may even be from the same carton of juice).  Grapefruit juice is a processed food and hence spermidine has almost surely been lost in the manufacturing process.  Also, there are countless references to grapefruit having spermidine in it, with most of these articles talking about human lifespan.  At the very least, calling spermidine in grapefruit a "popular myth" as the Wikipedia author has done is totally unsupported and should be immediately remedied, IMO.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.193.5.58 (talk) 20:21, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: No longer mentions grapefruit. Has good ref now. Could add to table. - Rod57 (talk) 09:41, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: Since we make it indirectly from arginine from protein why do we need dietary sources ?  Can we say what evidence there is for benefits of dietary intake of spermidine ?   How much do we need/make/use a day ? - Rod57 (talk) 10:10, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Is there any benefit from spermidine in diet

message: Substituted at 06:41, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: The Source section currently says
Good dietary sources of spermidine are aged cheese, mushrooms, soy products, legumes, corn, and whole grains.
Food                	Spermidinemg/kg	notes & refs
Chickpea            	~29            	
Green peas          	46.6           	
Soybean,dried       	128            	German
Soybean,dried       	207            	Japanese
chicken liver       	48.7           	
Cheddar, 1yr old    	199.5          	
Cauliflower (cooked)	~25            	
Broccoli (cooked)   	~25            	
Mushroom            	88.6           	Japanese
Mango               	30             	
Rice bran           	50             	
 Note - spermidine content varies by source and age. See ref for details.
But I extracted a somewhat fuller list of the top items from the referenced Ali( 2011) source  (which presents a compilation a bunch of other studies which it cites in its Table 1 using a "Country and reference" citation column):
Food Product             	Spermidine Mean	Country and reference
Soybean, dried           		207           		Japan (4)b
Cheddar, matured (1 year)		199.5         		UK (22)a
Soybean, dried           		128           		Germany (51)b
Mushroom                 		88.6          		Japan (6)c
Ground beef              		71.7          		UK (22)a
Green peas, cooked       		65.2          		UK (22)a
Rice bran                		51            		Japan (15)b
Chicken liver            		48.7          		Czech R (5)g
Green peas, frozen       		46.6          		Czech R (23) d
Corn                     		43.2          		Japan (15)b
Broccoli, fresh          		41.3          		Norway (16)a
Tea, black leaves        		38.1          		UK (22)a
Muscles [sic]            		37.7          		France (38)e
Potato crisps            		37.6          		UK (2)a
Mustard                  		34.2          		France (38)e
Broccoli, fresh          		33.2          		Germany (51)b
Cauliflower, fresh       		31.2          		Germany (51)b
Mango                    		30            		Japan (15)b
Dill                     		29.2          		Japan (15)b
Chickpea                 		28.8          		France (38)e
Cauliflower, fresh       		28.3          		Norway (16)a
Broccoli, Cooked         		27.3          		Norway (16)a
Celeriac                 		26.7          		Germany (51)b
Cauliflower, Cooked      		26.2          		Norway (16)a
 
Should the table perhaps be expanded? Some high-spermadine rows (including divergent values for soybeans) are not yet present in the WP article. Also, most of country names are currently missing. (It's an odd method of referring to studies, but I guess the source column shouldn't be changed in the WP article to refer to the original sources, as Ali(2011) did unit conversions like nmol/g to mg/kg that are unlikely to be backtrack-checked by WP editors, so Ali(2011) should continue to be cited as the immediate ref, but those country names should at least be filled out.)
Notes: 
1. In Ali(2011), Table 1 is a little confusing because some row headings that say "[food], [preparation type X]" are followed by lines that instead of saying "[food], [preparation type Y]" are just abbreviated as "[preparation type x]". So if you want to check my extraction by looking at the full original table, you'll find the "Green peas, cooked" row in Table 1 labeled "Cooked" underneath the row for "Green peas, frozen" (I confirmed that that row is referring to peas because it cites a study that found 428-470 nmol spermadine per g of frozen green peas -- see Susan Bardócz ∗, George Grant, David S. Brown, Ann Ralph, Arpad Pusztai "Polyamines in food—implications for growth and health". The Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry, Volume 4, Issue 2, February 1993)
2. The "muscles" presumably refers to mussels, which is why I put "[sic]". It says "muscles" in the "Table 3. Polyamine contents in fish and seafoods" category of the "France (38)e" original source study -- see Bernard Cipolla, R Havouis,J P Moulinoux. "Polyamine contents in current foods: A basis for polyamine reduced diet and a study of its long term observance and tolerance in prostate carcinoma patients". Amino Acids 33(2):203-12 · September 2007
-- Undomelin (talk) 22:26, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  More regarding sources 

message: Thank you for this page on Spermidine. It was very helpful.
The information stating wheat germ as the highest source of spermidine is likely correct. However, I believe the original source was inadvertently left off, because the source cited [16]  is not scholarly. Source [16] cites an article that itself has an incorrect source for information on wheat germ content of spermidine. 
The following source does contain the information on the spermidine content of wheat germ.
Kazuhiro N, Ritsuko S, Keiko K, Kazuei I. Decrease in Polyamines with Aging and Their Ingestion from Food and Drink. Journal of Biochemistry. 2006;(1):81. https://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=edsovi&AN=edsovi.00004606.200601000.00010&site=eds-live. Accessed May 29, 2020. 
Thank you so much for your time! MorrowNJ (talk) 16:31, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wheat germ source 

message: Wheat germ has 253mg / kg, so an ounce has about 7 mg. Most of the pricey supplements are apparent rip offs selling 'wheat germ extract' at amounts like 500 - 1500 mg, typically for 2 capsules, where very few are telling you that the actual spermidine content is like 1%. This fact, which is sourceable should be in article as a public service vs these vendors. Lycurgus (talk) 06:33, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Also this a pretty good truth/verificationist thing due to the clear hard fact of a molecule which is regularly assayed in lab reports. They can't actually lie about this and get away with it by the standard of having a third party lab perform the assay on a sample of product. The more ethical of them do this and that's where the low percentages come from. I wouldn trust one that was saying it was more than 5% without such an independent report. 98.4.112.204 (talk) 06:48, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

text: There are exceptions and one can't be utterly untrusting, ordered a product that was 10mg of spermidine trichloride per cap so the bottle of 30 is a lil better than a kilo of wheat germ. It acknowledges the situation above and competes effectively. 98.4.112.204 (talk) 15:45, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rip off products 

message: Basic information to add to this article: the etymology/origin of the word "spermidine," as well as when (and by whom) this compound was first identified. 76.190.213.189 (talk) 14:59, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  To add to article