Talk:Darius Milhaud

message: In this article I learnd: Milhaud "left Germany in 1939 and emigrated to America in 1940."
The german version of this article - wich is much more detailed - does not mention a visit of Milhaud in Germany:
"Leben
...
...
...
1912 wird er mit dem Dichter Paul Claudel bekannt gemacht, mit dem ihn eine lebenslange Freundschaft und künstlerische Zusammenarbeit verbinden wird. Als Claudel 1916 als französischer Botschafter in die brasilianische Hauptstadt Rio de Janeiro entsandt wird, begleitet ihn Milhaud, vom Dienst im Ersten Weltkrieg befreit, als sein Attaché nach Südamerika. Dort lernt er die brasilianische Folklore und Popularmusik kennen, was seine Musik in den folgenden Jahren stark beeinflussen wird.
1918 kehrt er nach Frankreich zurück. Er hat Kontakt mit dem Kreis um Jean Cocteau und Erik Satie und gehört schließlich zur Groupe des Six. Seine Kompositionen bringen ihm erste Erfolge, aber auch Skandale ein.
1925 heiratet er seine Kusine Madeleine.
Nach Ausbruch des Zweiten Weltkriegs emigriert Milhaud mit seiner Frau in die USA und wird am Mills College in Oakland Lehrer für Komposition (bis 1971). Nach Ende des Krieges leitet er zusätzlich auch eine Kompositionklasse am Konservatorium in Paris (bis 1972). Er unterrichtet in der folgenden Zeit jährlich wechselnd auf beiden Kontinenten. Seinen Unterricht besuchen so unterschiedliche Künstler wie der Jazzmusiker Dave Brubeck, der Minimalist Steve Reich, der Sinfoniker Allan Pettersson und die Avantgardisten Karlheinz Stockhausen und Iannis Xenakis.
..."
Ho can explain the diference?
--WAF er 23:22, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: but may be Milhaud felt the deadly peril of the Hitler-regime for all Jews in Europe.ko
=== Pronounciation ===
I seem to recall this is pronounced "mee-yo", but can't pull up an acceptible set of phonetic characters and am anyway not an expert in such matters. Could a native speaker or other authority put a phonetic pronounciation on the main page, so we don't have a generation talking about some character named "mill-hawd"? (Thanks...) -- Metahacker 03:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My Collins Music Encyclopedia (c. 1957) said something like "…who illogically pronounces his name 'Mee-yo'", so there is a contemporary authority--a secondary source. I note that the WP article on Teilhard de Chardin also gives 'Tie-yar' (approx, transliterated from the IPA), so, French being French, there must be a rule, or at least a convention, perhaps regional as suggested above, for this departure from phonetic pronunciation. --D Anthony Patriarche, BSc (talk) 22:38, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: French? Rules? Yes, no doubt there are six or more rules that completely contradict each other.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 07:49, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yes: one dimension 

message: I seem to recall this is pronounced "mee-yo", but can't pull up an acceptible set of phonetic characters and am anyway not an expert in such matters. Could a native speaker or other authority put a phonetic pronounciation on the main page, so we don't have a generation talking about some character named "mill-hawd"? (Thanks...) -- Metahacker 03:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My Collins Music Encyclopedia (c. 1957) said something like "…who illogically pronounces his name 'Mee-yo'", so there is a contemporary authority--a secondary source. I note that the WP article on Teilhard de Chardin also gives 'Tie-yar' (approx, transliterated from the IPA), so, French being French, there must be a rule, or at least a convention, perhaps regional as suggested above, for this departure from phonetic pronunciation. --D Anthony Patriarche, BSc (talk) 22:38, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: French? Rules? Yes, no doubt there are six or more rules that completely contradict each other.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 07:49, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciation 

message: Jumping from 1922 to 1940 without mentioning ANYTHING is not doing Milhaud justice. If nobody else adds some more material, I'll try to get to this after I work on the Les Six article.  Musikfabrik 12:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  the article also needs expanding 

message: This article was automatically  assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:01, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: ...Dave Brubeck arguably became Milhaud's most famous student...
burt bacharach is more famous than dave brubeck.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.76.66 (talk) 07:23, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  famous students 

message: I'm trying to sort out the story of who was commissioned to write songs for Feodor Chaliapin to sing in Adventures of Don Quixote (1932).  The usual version is that Maurice Ravel and Jacques Ibert were the only serious contenders.  But the talk page goes into some detail of various theories, including one that Darius Milhaud, Marcel Delannoy and Manuel de Falla were also commissioned; yet I can find no evidence that these 3 ever started work on their commissions, so it may be that they were considered but never formally commissioned.  Any clarification of this would be welcome.  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:05, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Adventures of Don Quixote

message: It's a lovely story, but it just doesn't seem to be verifiable.One might expect is to be included in Milhaud's article in the French language Wikipédia, but it isn't, even as superseded content. Searched for the phrase in whole and in parts, in English and in French, but all the relevant hits were either quoted from this article, or quoting from pages that quoted the article.
All that said, please prove me wrong; I want the story to be true.--Shirt58 (talk) 11:24, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well-spotted! "Famously" is just another variation on weasel wording. I agree that this is such a good story that it ought to be true, but Wikipedia requires more than this. Thanks for calling this to my attention. Since you have already made an online search, I will see what I can find offline.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:34, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

text: OK, I have found a source and corrected the quotation to conform to it. I find no evidence at all that this anecdote is "famous", so that characterization had to go. The same source not surprisingly also confirms that Bacharach studied with Milhaud. The other names in the sentence almost certainly did also study with him, but this particular source does not mention them. There are many other wonderful stories about Milhaud's teaching that I heard years ago from my own composition teacher, Robert Beadell, not long after Bob had spent a summer studying with Milhaud and, in the process, began work on his own First Symphony—strongly influenced by the trumpet style of Miles Davis. Unfortunately, I cannot find independent verification of these anecdotes, or I would gladly add them to this article.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:18, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Great outcome!  Thank you indeed! --Shirt58 (talk) 10:29, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "... whom Milhaud famously told never to apologize for writing a pretty melody." 

message: The List article mentions Variations sur un thème de Cliquet, Op.23 (1915).  
Who is this Cliquet?  The only musical person I can find with a similar-sounding name and whose dates fit is Henri Clicquet-Pleyel (1894-1963; note different spelling of Clicquet), but the only thing I can find about him is that he wrote a Concerto for Piano Right Hand and Orchestra.  --  Jack of Oz [your turn] 10:52, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: One might assume that Henri Cliquet-Pleyel is the author of the theme in question.  During the same years, Milhaud dedicated at least two piano works to Cliquet: the dedication on his Sonata No. 1 (1916) reads "Pour Henri Cliquet", as well as movement II of his Suite (1913).  Cliquet also dedicated piano works to Milhaud: Troisième Tango (1921; published by Max Eschig); movement V of Suite (1922). Hrdinský 〒 16:14, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yep, that must be the guy.  Belated thanks.  --  Jack of Oz [your turn] 00:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Who was Cliquet?

message: To Jerome Kohl:  The cited book (Driven into paradise) in the cited Paragraph 39 begins, "Celebrities Forced to Flee France Arrive Here", and continues, ... "Included were Jules Romains... Darius Milhoud, modernist composer..."  The immediately preceding paragraphs 33 through 38 make it clear that it is the rise of Hitlar and the Nazis that drove these people out of Europe.  Is that not a confirmation that Milhaud had to flee?  It is true that the text does not make it clear that it was 1839 when Milhaud was driven out (although 1939 and 1940 are mentioned).  Maybe it would help to cite both pages 132 and 133.--Foobarnix (talk) 23:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That citation appears to refer to the German invasion of France, rather than the rise of Naziism (an internal German phenomenon). Obviously, the two are not unrelated, and the reference does refer to "fascism". Perhaps the claim could be modified accordingly?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 03:23, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Milhauds left Paris in 1939 and went to Aix-en-Provence, but did not leave France until June 1940. Their published correspondence with Henri and Helene Hoppenot confirms this. And yes, it was the invasion of France that made them decide to leave. MaherEK (talk) 22:56, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a very helpful clarification, but where does this information come from? I don't have access to the Mills College Program of 1949, cited later in the paragraph, but it appears from the edit history that the question of the Milhauds' departure from France was not addressed in it, since a book reference was interposed. Removal of that reference (which did not entirely support the claims made, as discussed above) now gives the false impression that a reliable source is being offered. It is for this reason that I am tagging the claim as unreferenced. If that Mills College program in fact confirms these facts, please remove the tag; otherwise, a source would be welcome (the published correspondence to which you obliquely refer, perhaps?).—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:37, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I just added a citation for the Milhaud/Hoppenot correspondence. Sorry about that. MaherEK (talk) 19:48, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Excellent, and no need to apologise. Editorial cooperation is always a good thing. Thanks for the good work.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:45, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  RE: note failure of citation to confirm 

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