Talk:Madonna/Archive 1

message: I decided to go back into this page and try to clean it up a bit more. If I am writing about the chart position of a single, shouldn't it be listed as "#1" instead of "Number One"? Also, I believe the standard accepted Associated Press usage of numbers is that numerals under nine are spelled out, whereas anything over 10 is in numeral characters. Therefore, Madonna's concert in Seattle sold out in "33 minutes," not "Thirty-three minutes." The only exception to this rule is when starting a sentence with a number. You'd never write a sentence like: "33 minutes is all it took to sell out the concert." Instead, it should be, "Thirty-three minutes is all it took to seel out the concert." But I'm about to give up on this issue, because it's frustrating to continually see it reverted back to written numberals as opposed to numeral characters. Aesculapius75 23:37, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about the AP, but standard grammar involves spelling out numbers that are over 100, not 10.  Fiona 03:44, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: AP style — and what I learned — is to spell out whole numbers below 10, use figures for 10 and above except when the numeral begins a sentence. Spell out a numeral at the beginning of a sentence, except when it identifies a calendar year. I also agree with Aesculapius75 about the "#1" usage. Also see Numbers in words --Nate Silva 20:15, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  #1 VRS. "Number One," 33 VRS. "Thirty-Three" 

message: The article Madonna included information both on the Virgin Mary and Madonna, the singer. A poster child, if you will, for disambiguation. The talk comments above come from the original Madonna page.
Since this is a fairly popular article, I would like to explain: why "Madonna (singer)" and not "Madonna (actress)" or "Madonna (celebrity)"? Because that's what she's best known for. In redirecting the links I noticed only one mention of Madonna's acting career and that was in passing. I also followed the lead of Cher's article, which is Cher (entertainer). Unlike Cher, Madonna's in no danger of winning an Oscar. When people link to the article, the simplest and most natural link to make is "Madonna (singer)". For the same reason, I didn't title this article Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone. Nobody's going to use that in a link.
----
Performed some copyedit for punctuation and wording.  Sorry about the multiple edits, I just find it easier to go section by section with a big article like this.Isotope23 17:01, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Name 

message: There are several mentions of the term "high streets" in this article when discussing how Madonna's popularity spawned people to mimic her clothing and make fashion trends out of the way she dressed. What exactly are the "high streets"? When i first read it I thought perhaps someone means to say "high schools and streets" and made an error, but it appears again later. This is a term I've never, ever heard before.
----
:"high streets" are the pop couture counterpart to the haute couture of the catwalk. "High Street" (UK) literally means  "Main Street" (US) but "main streets" AFAIK isn't a generic term for "streets", "urban streets", "malls", "shopping centres" &c.  
:chocolateboy 13:48, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  High Streets 

message: I've added information on her daughter Lourdes to the lead section since that article (Lourdes Leon Ciccone) currently redirects to this one (Madonna (entertainer)) and it's damn near impossible to find the one (other) mention of her in this article. - dcljr 04:34, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lourdes 

message: An unidentified user changed my 250 million records figure without reading my links here on the talk page, they said she had sold only 155 million records ww, lol. This person is a crazy Celine fan as he changed som innacurate info. I updated on her page. MadonnaFan 02:15, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changed information back 

message: IS NOT a Madonna album!
There have been numerous changes by fans discounting the fact that the "Die Another Day" soundtrack is a Madonna album.  WB Records is Madonna's label, and the "DAD" soundtrack was released on that label.  Therefore, it counts as a Madonna album, even though the bulk of the music is score highlights by David Arnold.  Over the years, Bond soundtracks have been released on labels of the singers who have done Bond songs.  For example, A&M Records originally released the "Octopussy" album, and because A&M is Rita Cooledge's label, it originally counted as a Cooledge album.
What if the Beach Boys had sung a Bond song in the 1960s and the soundtrack was released on Capitol Records?  Would it count as a Beach Boys album?  Of course it would.
So yes, "DAD" IS, IS, IS a Madonna album.  Therefore, I'm changing the article in a few days to reflect this. Hiphats 08:39, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Die Another Day" IS a Madonna album 

message: I'm surprised that I was unable to find anything about that bra in this article. Please could a sentence or two be added explaining its origins and cultural impact? Lupin 12:48, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conical bra 

message: I want to propose to move this page to Madonna Ciccone Ritchie. This is an article about person - Madonna Ciccone Ritchie, not about her stage name/alias, and i think it will be appropriate to name an article after the person's name. Vorash 09:10, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: See: Wikipedia:Naming conventions, specifically Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). Hyacinth 20:41, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Madonna Ciccone Ritchie 

message: Hello everybody! I was spending the last days trying to help the wikipedia by writing and starting pages about her singles, as other musicians have. But all my work are being in danger. One masterful man Mel Etitis wants all to be his way. He's rude. I'm tired and asking for help. If my contributions are any longer being spoiled I'd give up making anymore. He's killing the initiative of the people who trying to share something good with the other people. With regards Beautifulstranger
#I haven't been rude (a glance at your Talk page will demonstrate that; I've even apologised for an initial misunderstanding).
#You're wildly overstating the case.
#What are at issue are a few minor questions of style & formatting. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 18:05, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  I need help 

message: Length 3:57 Country House (song)
Song Length 13:48 on Debra (song)
Endless Love (song)
Hello, Goodbye
Everytime
One Sweet Day
Wild Wild West (hip hop song)
all these pages, all that i've seen have it "0:00" way. So it seems to be a standard here. even iTunes. so do you want the others playing your rules. 
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Beautifulstranger (talk • contribs) 17:21, 17 July 2005
Well, maybe you should check first about this "0' 0"" time format in Wikipedia style guidline ? If it's a official Wikipedia' format , there is nothing we can do about it. I also don't like this format, but if this is an official Wikipedia format we probably should follow the rules. Vorash 18:55, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  song length 

message: Aren't there any possibilities to get images in accordance to our Wikimedia Commons policy? There is only one usable image in here and that's a real problem for interwiki translations, in addition to copyright aspects (with an article every lawyer would pray for > music industrie). Please ask for free images, search for free images, use free images and then if nothing helps, it might be ok for the english Wikipedia to accept free use stuff. It shouldn't be the first option to chose and it shouldn't be the most used option like here, because if it is, this article is non-usable for anyone out of the US. --18:47, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  fair use 

message: Just came back to the page today, saw all the links now under 'See Also' - lays out really nice! Compliments to whoever made that edit. -- Barrettmagic 22:55, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you; it's good to know that I can do something right... --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 16:32, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Superjob on cleanup! 

message: I cited the wrong MoS page in my edit summary; I should have cited Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Opening paragraph. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 12:14, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  My last edit summary 

message: Hi, I see someone deleting a lot of Madonna singles pages and a lot of information on Madonna album pages (writers, catalog numbers).  
American Pie (Madonna song)
Don't Cry for Me Argentina (Madonna song)
Is it normal here? Or the person who does it simply hates Madonna?
I think a lot of people have taken time to write them or to find this information and its being deleted so simply. It's not fair.
A new Wiki-reader.
: don't worry too much about it, just as easy as something can be deleted it also can be restored. once someone notices the vandalism, it will be restored pretty fast. Boneyard 14:37, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't recreate those pages.  Neither one is a Madonna song.  They are both Madonna recordings.  Information about Madonna's covers of those songs can go in the articles about American Pie (song) and Don't Cry For Me Argentina.  Jkelly 16:48, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting Madonna pages 

message: I'm quite sure Madonna wasn't born with Ritchie as her surname - it's her wedded name. I think someone updated this when she was married, yet didn't notice that it was preceded with 'Born...'.
I'm new to this so I'll leave it to someone more experienced to edit.
Madonna Louise Ciccone is her birth name (Veronica is only her catholic confirmation name) - and the birth name must be placed in the lead paragraph in a biography. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(biographies) --Red-Blue-White 20:31, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Madonna's birth name 

message: A genuine global superstar, packing stadiums worldwide with her astonishing stage spectacles, Madonna, a multi-Grammy winner, has made music history with international sales of over 200 million albums. Her enormous influence has spanned 33 number one dance hits; five chart topping albums and 46 Top 40 singles and 20 MTV Video Music Awards. http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=97678 --Red-Blue-White 22:33, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Why did you paste this here?  Jkelly 22:35, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it was asked in the article (see history). It's better discussed here than in the article. --Red-Blue-White 22:44, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah.  By User:Journalist.  You might want to check out WP:CITE for instructions on how to reference articles.  While it's good to discuss things in Talk pages, it's not an ideal way to reference.  Jkelly 00:04, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's only an additional reminder because some people change the numbers very often. The reference is linked at the right place at the article. --Red-Blue-White 01:04, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes sense.  Jkelly 01:14, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope so! ;) --Red-Blue-White 01:18, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sales: Over 200 million albums 

message: *Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone Ritchie?
*Madonna Ciccone Ritchie?
*Madonna Louise Ritchie?
*Madonna Ritchie?
Please name sources - what's her correct name since her marriage.  --Red-Blue-White 17:26, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I did already, if you follow the link under the previous discussion under the heading "Madonna Louise Ritchie." According to her husband, her full name is Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone. There seems to have been a misunderstanding among some editors here that women are automatically named after their husbands upon marriage, which is not the case under British or American law, and I guess they kept adding the name based on this assumption. AFAIK, Madonna has used the name Ritchie only jokingly, such as on a chair labeled "Mrs Ritchie" and once as "M Ritchie" on a donor list, perhaps for reasons of relative anonymity. ProhibitOnions 23:27, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's Madonna's correct civil name? 

message: On November 18, 2005, a Belgian judge seated in Mons decided that Madonna's number Frozen was plagiarism. According to the judge, Frozen is plagiarism because 4 bars of the song are identical to  "Ma vie fout le camp" composed by Salvatore Acquaviva from Mouscron. The judge subsequently forbade the sale and playing of the song on the Belgian territory. The judge also ordered Warner, Emi and Sony to publish and spread the decision within fifteen days to various media outlets on pain of a penalty of 125.000 euro for non compliance with a court order. I've got a dutch language source for this  and if you google, you'll find several English language news articles dating from May announcing the lawsuit. Could someone keep an eye for English language newsarticles about this plagiarism when they come out?
::I moved the plagiasm part to the Frozen site. --Red-Blue-White 16:05, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism 

message: Madonna now lives principally in Britain, with a house in London and a country manor in Dorset. She is a keen horse-woman and wearer of Barbour jackets.
From the Observer 2005/11/20 http://observer.guardian.co.uk/omm/story/0,13887,1644648,00.html --213.190.195.103 16:35, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  She does live in London - at least part of the time there 

message: Just a question about the tours title. I haven't seen this title anywhere before until now, not on Madonna's official site or any fan site. Can someone confirm this title? Underneath-it-All 15:25, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't seen this title either, anywhere. I deleted it from the article. If someone can actually confirm it (which I doubt since it would seem unlikely that Madonna would name her 2006 tour after a verse from a twenty-year old hit), feel free to revert back.--Downtownstar 07:35, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Dance and Sing World Tour 2006? 

message: Could somebody archive this talk page it's so big now, Thanks--Hotwiki 16:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive the talk page 

message: Why does someone keep editing the "genre" section on the lead page to read only "pop, rock."
Although Madonna has dabbled in rock (as well as r+b/hip hop) her main styles of music would be pop, dance, and electronica.   Pat Benatar is a rock singer, Madonna is mainly dance.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.64.85.73 (talk) 18:04, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: People edit genre because her styles are diverse and because people have different opinions, just as you have a different opinion that you have expressed here. Ward3001 (talk) 18:16, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Madonna is classifed by the RIAA as the best selling female Rock artist of the 20th century. Rock music as a general classification relates to any style of music that is not classical. Like many pop artists, Allmusic defines Madonna as a rock artist. The genre value for the infobox is meant to give the reader her broadest definition. Dance and electronic music are styles she regularly incorporates into her music, but she is defined professionally as a Rock/Pop artist. If you purchase a CD of hers in a typical music store, you've never be able to find her if you looked under "Dance", "Electronica" or "R&B" - The only place you'd find CDs by Madonna would be under a "Rock/Pop" section. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 21:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do they even have music stores anymore?  They're pretty non-existent in America, only places like Target sell them and they do it by alphabetical order. 76.124.165.253 (talk) 23:01, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: target, barns and noble, ameba music, wal-mart and pretty much any other retailer that sells music lists her under Rock/Pop. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 01:12, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Of course "Dance" is her best=known category. She has had three dozen #1 Dance singles! No way should that genre be left off.Kmpintj (talk) 05:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

text: I agree with El cangri386. Though I would also like to know which sources of course, if they are major web sites that define her musical styles, I say go by the way they say it is. As long as they're noted, I really don't see what the problem is. I've witnessed this ridiculous edit war for hours now and for some reason it's possible that I could be a part of it. I think the reason why the person keeps reverting the edits to only "pop" and "rock" is because that's how her MySpace says it. Well you can only pick up to three genres on MySpace anyway, and here on Wikipedia, you can type as many as you want. I've looked into it, and here's where her styles are defined:
*[http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:jvfyxqe5ldae Allmusic.com Artist Profile - Madonna Internet user1 (talk) 22:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

text: For those of you new to this discussion, as I've stated before the genre value on the infobox is meant to give the reader the BROADEST category of the artist's music. By that standard, Madonna should only have Pop listed in her infobox; the only reason I've added Rock is because she is consistantly referred to as one of the greatest female vocalists of the Rock era of music. Another thing, I did not use myspace as a guide, I used professional organizations such as Rolling Stone and Allmusic (as clearly indicated by my previous posts above). And as Realist2 pointed out, if we use Allmusic solely as a source, her ONLY genre would be Rock. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 22:47, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Let me add, just as a general comment, that Wikipedia has the means to determine if sockpuppetry is going on, should anyone be inclined to use that to try to sway the consensus. Ward3001 (talk) 23:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And to clarify that does not mean me and bookkeeper are socks! :-) — Realist2 23:03, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Madonna has never charted on a R&B chart - I have yet to see any single or album by her chart anywhere on Billboards Top R&B/Hip-Hop charts and she has never been referred to as an "R&B artist" by any reliable publication. Like A Prayer and Hard Candy for instance have plenty of R&B influence, but neither the albums themselves nor any of their singles have placed anywhere on R&B charts. Just like with every other artist in the world, Madonna herself is not the sole authority on what categories the music industry places her in. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 10:51, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh wow, I stand corrected, her albums and singles actually have placed on Billboards Top R&B/Hip Hop charts. I wonder why I never came across this info before. In any event, I'd still prefer keeping it simple and just listin Pop/Rock in the info box sine though are her boadest categories, but I'm not completely opposed to including R&B/Dance at this point. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 10:58, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre: