Talk:World Youth Chess Championship

message: Browsing through a number of publications, I am coming to the conclusion that the early editions of this category (from Mestel onwards) were in fact under-18, not under-16. Unfortunately, I can't piece together the whole story, but looking at Brasilbase, you note that whilst these early editions sit above the under-16 results, they are not described as U-16 themselves. They have (I think) been put there because at some point, the "Cadets" category switched from U-18 to U-16, so the name is the common element, not the age group. Our article is therefore misleading as it titles all editions as U-16. Perhaps some more research is needed to fully clear this up, and discover when the crossover happened. Brittle heaven (talk) 20:23, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: From the intro: 
* The under 16 category has the longest history as youth championship. It started off unofficially in 1974 in France for players under 17 and was recognized in 1977 by FIDE as the World Championship for Cadets. Later the age limit was reduced to under 16, applicable at the start of the year the championship is played in.    This implies that some of the U16 are in fact seventeen, so that there is a large overlap with the age category before they changed the age category (and that is why I merged the cadets with the U16, as is also done here. If we would know the year it changed, we can perhaps put the cadets in a different subsection.  
* It would be really great to know when all the editions started officially for the first time. A poster from 1983 can be found here:  (from this page ), which implies 1983 was the third edition of the U16. The numbering on brasilbase cannot be trusted imo. 
* This chessbase article has a bit on the history , which says that the cadets where merged with the U18 and first editions of U10, U12 and U14 where first played in 1987! One thing it mentions is the World Youth Chess Festival for Peace, and I think we should mention this is our article. Voorlandt (talk) 15:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cadets 

message: Because they are no longer online, I post them here for now, until the year is covered in the "notes" section. 
====1995 TWIC57: 11TH WORLD YOUTH CHESS FESTIVAL by Claudio Antonio Tonegutti====
Place: CITY OF SAO LOURENCO - STATE OF MINAS GERAIS - BRAZIL Date: OCTOBER 17 TO 28, 1995. The 11th World Youth Chess Festival was realized in October, 17 to 28, at Sao Lourenco City, Brazil, by FIDE and Brazilian Chess Federation. Sao Lourenco is an agreeable resort inland the State of Minas Gerais and it is located 386 km from Belo Horizonte, the state capital, 290 km from Sao Paulo, and 275 km from Rio de Janeiro. Sao Lourenco has 30,000 inhabitants and the average temperature in the month of October is 25 Celsius degrees. The city has a wonderful mineral water park with a lake and hoots baths. This Festival covered the World Chess Championships under 10 (born on or after 01/01/85), under 12 (born on or after 01/01/83) and under 14 (born on or after 01/01/81), boys and girls, with the participation of representatives from the Federations affiliated which FIDE. The participation was very good, with 263 players from many countries.The players top placed in each category are : etc...
====1996 TWIC104 XII World Youth Chess Festival====
Cala Galdana Menorca in the Balearic Islands is the venue of the World Youth Chess Festival between 20th October and the 3rd November 1996. This FIDE event is endorsed by the United Nations and is an annual event. The competition has under 10,12,14,16 and 18 sections for both boys and girls. It will produce 10  Champions altogether. The events are 11 round Swiss events. The leaders of these events are not guaranteed to go on to be professional players but this year there were quite a number of quite well known figures playing in the tournaments. Probably the most interesting event was the Boys under 14 event with Etienne Bacrot as its star. He had a very good Olympiad and has recently beaten ex-World Champion Vassily Smyslov 5-1 in a match. Did he win? No in fact he came 5th a point and a half behind the winner after losing to him in last round game. He was level with Ganguly who beat a strong GM last year in India. The winner was Gabriel Sargissian who beat Ganguly and Bacrot on the way to the title. Azerbaijan and India seem to have quite strong junior programs in train, and China also has a few high profile names but not as many as might have been expected given their interest in chess. Alek Gershon won the under 16 section above a number of more highly rated players after winning an extremely odd game in the last round. The under-18 section Rafael Leitao from Brazil took the under 18 section. etc..
====Some comments====
One interesting fact is the numbering. So 1985 would be the first world youth chess festival? This would explain part of brasilbase numbering. Anyway, here is my best guess so far
*1977-1981 Cadets
*1981-1984 U16 
*1979,1980,1981,1984 U14 as part of the 'World Infant Cup'
*1985 U14 ?? | U16                     ' World Youth Festival I'
*1986 U10 U12 U14  | U16               ' World Youth Festival II'
*1987 U10 U12 U14 U18 | U16            ' World Youth Festival III'
*1988 U10 U12 U14 U16 | U18            ' World Youth Festival IV'
*1989 U10 U12 U14 U16 U18  (finally!)  ' World Youth Festival V'
etc..
The big question to me is whether there were U10 and U12 sections in 1985. Also, if we are to believe brasilbase, some girls sections started later. In any case, I think we should split the World Infant Cup out. Voorlandt (talk) 20:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Results from old twics 

message: One interesting fact is the numbering. So 1985 would be the first world youth chess festival? This would explain part of brasilbase numbering. Anyway, here is my best guess so far
*1977-1981 Cadets
*1981-1984 U16 
*1979,1980,1981,1984 U14 as part of the 'World Infant Cup'
*1985 U14 ?? | U16                     ' World Youth Festival I'
*1986 U10 U12 U14  | U16               ' World Youth Festival II'
*1987 U10 U12 U14 U18 | U16            ' World Youth Festival III'
*1988 U10 U12 U14 U16 | U18            ' World Youth Festival IV'
*1989 U10 U12 U14 U16 U18  (finally!)  ' World Youth Festival V'
etc..
The big question to me is whether there were U10 and U12 sections in 1985. Also, if we are to believe brasilbase, some girls sections started later. In any case, I think we should split the World Infant Cup out. Voorlandt (talk) 20:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Some comments

message: All of the 4 sources (brasilbase, Delaire, xoomer, berry) state that Dorote Ivaniuk won the girls U14 event in '94. Even the sum up of this tournament in the article here says that Ivaniuk was the winner. Still Rusudan Goletiani holds the place in the table and in her article. Is that because Sam Sloan kept insisting that she won 3 Youth World Championships to have a stronger point in his accusations against the Executive Board whereas in fact she only won the U16? If he got the birthplace of Gashimov wrong in his statements he might have exaggerated when listing her titles. --Gereon K. (talk) 23:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  1994 Goletiani? 

message: Informant 27, page 253 lists a December 1978-January 1979 World Cadet Championship at Sas Van Gent won by Motwani (presumably Paul Motwani of Scotland) with 9/11, followed by Huergo and Short with 8/11, etc. Our article doesn't seem to mention this tournament at all. Informant 28, page 289 lists another World Cadet Championship (this one at Belfort), also an 11-round tournament, in July 1979. Our article does mention this tournament, saying that Marcelo Javier Tempone was the winner. Informant 28 gives "1-2. Tempone, Short 8, 3. Morovic 8, 4. Milos 7 1/2" etc. This implies that Tempone, Short, and Morovic all scored 8 points, and Tempone and Short were co-winners on tiebreak(?!) Sorry to be introducing confusion rather than clarity . . . . Krakatoa (talk) 02:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I have resolved the confusion about two under-17 championships in 1979. A book by Nigel Short's father, David Short, called Nigel Short: Chess Progidy, confirms that there was indeed a World Cadet Championship in '78-'79 and another in Belfort later in '79. "Another win in a weekend tournament followed, and then it was the World Under-17 Championship in Holland. ... Nigel finished equal second and collected the bronze medal on tie-break." David Short, Nigel Short: Chess Progidy, Faber and Faber, 1981, pp. 145-46. . "With the World Under-17 Championship of 1978 spilling over into 1979, two championships were held in six months. ... [S]ome unexpected results on the lower boards gave Tempone the title on tie-break countback. Nigel took the silver medal." Id. at p. 159. Bottom line: the 1978-79 Cadet (under-17) at Sas Van Gent, Netherlands should be added, with Motwani the winner; Tempone was indeed the winner at Belfort (on tiebreak), as given in the article; and we still don't know what happened at the 1979 under-14. Krakatoa (talk) 02:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

text: D'oh! Our article has Sas Van Gent 1978, won by Motwani (it was actually played in 1978-79, but that's a minor point. David Short's book indicates that it was considered "the World Under-17 Championship of 1978"). So my research has yielded nothing beyond what the article already had. Krakatoa (talk) 02:35, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: U16 78-79

message: The format of the references needs to be fixed.  Make them standard.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 19:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  references