Talk:Avril Lavigne/Archive 1

message: "Avril is only 21, but she must be extremely worldly because on Wikipedia there is a whole section on 'early life.'" — New York Daily News, Feb. 9, 2006
Press accounts frequently credit her, along with singers Vanessa Carlton and Michelle Branch, with bringing a new sense of earnestness and genuine creativity to an often vacuous and pre-fabricated teen pop music market. Whilst her marketing has been every bit as sophisticated as, for instance, Britney Spears and her counterparts, a profile in the Washington Post found her to be genuine and, if anything, something of a wide-eyed innocent, citing the fact that she was intending to purchase her first Ramones CD. 
In another interview, she listed her current listening tastes as including Blink 182, Sum 41, 
and System of a Down - more the tastes expected of a contemporary teenage music fan than an actual artist. - Is this NPOV? -- Zoe
I love her new CD because she talks about real issues like she wanted to do. I liked her other CD because it was quite the same. Well I don't think she is a poser like everyone else because me and her act the same and I am not a poser even if people say I am. So I believe her and if she wants to do this it is her own god damn business.
--69.241.173.169 00:41, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: "I hate it when people say I'm not a true punk. I don't go around calling myself punk; I never have. That's what people need to know -- it's not me saying that, it's the media. I'm a rocker."
- Avril Lavigne
Actually I have don't much against her but one big thing, I do have against her is that she is constantlysaying she is a pop punker. 
Let me be the first to inform you there is no such thing as a pop punker.
 You may thing bands like Sum41 has said in an interview with spin that they are not punk rock. 
She wouldn't be a posuer, if she didn't claim she was a punk rocker. 
She definitly proved she wasn't when in interview she had said "Forget the old stuff, the clash and the Ramones, I'm the new punk rock" and thats why many claim she is a poseur. 
Granted she's doing well for an artist and should be commend for breaking out of the typical tenny bobber. 
She still a liar and she in it for the money, like everyone in the pop bussiness.
--Starliteentity17
Where has Avril ever said that she is punk?  That is just a label that the media has created for her.  Until you can site a source with a quote, I know only the opposite to be true.  On an ABC Family TV Special on her, she says, "I'm not a punk rocker" and "I don't walk around calling myself punk."  She goes on to explain that she is "just a rock chick" and likes to "rock out."
--Nabber00 19:14, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm almost 110% positive that if you mentioned sid and nancy, she'd ask you if you were talking about crazy town without a clue as to why.
That quote is made up by the record company. Avril Lavigne has never said that herself.
--Joakim
"I don't think I'm punk," the Canadian phenom says during a phone interview from New York City. "It really pisses me off when I have labels placed on me like that. People are stupid for doing that, because I'm not punk. It's my pet peeve now." 
Boston Herald, May 21, 2004
http://theedge.bostonherald.com/musicNews/view.bg?articleid=28709&format=
--Nabber00 06:39, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: - Your link is dead.  "I never once said I was punk. I'm just a really strong, opinionated person." - April 3, 2005  --Nabber00 07:17, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Punk or Not? 

message: I have added Avril Lavigne to Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Avril_Lavigne. Will you guys please talk about your problems with each other and come to a decision (preferably without the bickering) rather than engaging in a pointless revert war?    Kurt Shaped Box 19:20, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see my response to your request.  The central issues are not related to capitalisation, but include a number of copyvio images up-loaded and added to various articles (including this one) by . Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 19:22, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for page protection - Mel Etis and DrippingInk, this is for you... 

message: I did not hear anything about "Take Me Away" being released as a single. Unless someone can explain this, it will be removed from the article. DrippingInk 01:28, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: IIRC, it's being released as a single in Australia. I can't remember where I read that now. Remove it by all means if you wish, until I can find a reliable source for this info... Kurt Shaped Box 21:19, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: As far as I can remember, somone mentioned it in a post on the avrilbandaids.com forums without actually quoting a source - not exactly the most reliable of information. I guess time will tell as to whether it gets released or not... Kurt Shaped Box 04:59, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Take Me Away"? 

message: Whomever changed the sales of Under My Skin had better revert them immediately. The LP has sold well over eight million, and not a copy less than seven million. DrippingInk 01:33, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
Youre right, DrippingInk, I also know the sales exceeded 8 million. Change as you see fit if you have not done so already.(Banes 17:11, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Under My Skin'' sales

message: The article had "Born to Loose", which is obviously a typo, but I'm not sure where the mistake is: it could be "Born Too Loose" or "Born to Lose"; I've corrected it to the latter, but if anyone knows better, could they correct me? --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 09:34, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "Born to Lose". 64.231.116.189 14:36, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 18:15, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Song title 

message: Is this section really notable? Strikes me as a little bit fancrufty to me. Opinions, please.
:I agree.  When I tidied it up,I made the same comment in my edit summary. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 16:17, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll give it a few days. If there's no significant objections, I'll go ahead and remove it. --Kurt Shaped Box 19:51, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I don't think that that counts as a significant objection without more explanation or argument.  What makes it nortable?  Magazines put young, attractive, famous women on their covers — so what? Are there any young female pop-singers who haven't been on lots of magazine covers?  That might be notable. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 12:12, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Notable because of the fame/exposure/importance of the covers. Everyking 13:29, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Important to whom? I can't imagine anyone who is not a fan being interested in this in the slightest. This sort of thing belongs on an Avril fansite, not in an encyclopedia article. --Kurt Shaped Box 14:12, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Or, if we're going to be NPoV: "like all other young, female entertainers, Lavigne has appeared on many magazine covers." --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 17:26, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Yeah, that sounds good to me, except that I would say that "..all.." is not quite right. How about:"like many/alot/most of her counterparts/peers......." Just an idea. "all" Sounds a bit funny, Avril Lavigne is a bit more well known than every other young female entertainer on this earth. But it is not that important.  Banes 19:20, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point.  It could just omit the "all".  Of course, it's not clear what the point of adding it is — but if we do add it to Lavigne, then I suppose it will have to be added to all the other articles on well-known young, female entertainers.  Perhaps we should create a template...  --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 21:07, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

text: If you're trying to make me laugh, Mel - you succeeded. :) --Kurt Shaped Box 23:25, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Mission accomplished. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 08:12, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

text: As it happens, many other personaltities have some magazine credits, but none have a whole list as it is here. Mel, you made me laugh too. But I still see no change to the article, I think Mel's final cut is best. Banes 14:17, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, is that all right?  I've removed the section, and added a sentence to the Trivia section.  If anyone wants to add as examples the more important(!?) of the appearances, that would be fine, I imagine. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 15:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

text: It looks perfect to me! As for more important mags, I dont know what counts as important really as I dont happen to read any of the ones on the list, somebody else can see to that if they want. The whole trivia section looks very nice now, good work. Banes 20:39, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Magazine covers... 

message: This has come up elsewhere.  A section devoted to a list of tour dates for a particular year isn't encyclopædic; it's the sort of thing that can and should found on the subject's Web site.  --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 22:00, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have noticed that some other artist's pages have that info, and agree with the above comment. On the other hand, I also see that many artists have a small history of their world tours. Does anyone think that we could have something like that here? Banes 12:18, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds appropriate to me.  If someone with the knowledge could oblige...? --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 17:52, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I will do a little research if I can, if anyone else could also help out, that would be nice. As far as I know she has done only one world tour (The "Bonez" Tour, I believe). Where do you think that info should go? Banes 19:43, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tour dates 

message: Only reference to this I could find on Google was to a song by The Haunted - it's not listed on the BODMAS (who appear to be an obsure garage band) site. Does this song really exist? Did Avril really cover this? --Kurt Shaped Box 10:09, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, no-one has responded and I have been unable to find any online references to Avril covering this song (only Google hits are this page and various mirrors). I'll give it another week and if no-one raises any objections, I'll remove it. --Kurt Shaped Box 23:20, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Razor Blade Love Affair 

message: In response to User:195.93.21.98's addition of this song to the article as one of Avril's covers. I have searched high and low and the only possible reference I could find to this was the fact that Avril sang a couple of lines of the song whilst goofing around during an interview for her live DVD and that Britney (supposedly - according to someone on a fansite, with no source provided) threatened to sue unless the footage was removed. I fail to see how this can be considered a 'live cover' in the strictest sense of the word, which to me implies that she performed the song seriously at one of her gigs. I'd appreciate the opinions of my fellow editors on this matter. --Kurt Shaped Box 23:30, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If that's all there is I don't think that should count as a live cover. Everyking 03:28, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baby, One More Time. 

message: Someone added chart numbers for Mexico and they're amazing high to me...are they right? I find it hard to believe she did so well there. Maybe it's a question of using different charts or something. It might be like a separate chart for international music. Everyking 04:12, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mexico

message: Hello there wikipedians-who-edit-Avril Lavigne. Two things: One, I thought it was agreed that Avril didnt cover Hit me baby one more time? Should it be there? Two, she is listed under category:Roman Catholics. This isnt that urgent but I have read on a number of fansites (not that reliable, I know) that she is a Baptist. Anyone verifiy these two things? Thanks. Banes 17:26, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea as to Avril's religion - I don't remember her ever discussing it. See above as to the 'Baby One More Time' cover. I'm going to be bold and remove it. --Kurt Shaped Box 18:28, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I heard a vague quote by her somewhere or other referring to her being baptist. Not that urgent, just a category. Glad to see youve been bold and removed that (..one more time) as I saw above that she didnt cover it. Case closed! (Lets hope it doesnt come back.) Banes 21:40, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two things 

message: Someone is making incorrect redirect pages for "I'm With You" to "I'm with You" — that would be correct in any form of English, except for songwriting. So I ask this user to please stop making the incorrect edits. Thank you. Winnermario 01:33, September 13, 2005 (UTC)
:I have no idea why Winnermario thinks that songwriting is exempt from normal English, but it isn't — not in general, nor in Wikipedia.  He should also stop moving pages by cutting and pasting, which is not allowed. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 10:03, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "I'm With You"

message: does avril sing any songs in french
Er, no, I dont think she does. Banes 12:00, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  french songs 

message: As these figures seem to be subject to regular, significant adjustment (both up and down) by numerous editors without citation of sources, I fear that there may be a serious accuracy problem here. It seems here that every edit of this type is accepted without question and that no-one here is actually checking this out - it would be the easiest thing in the world for a sneaky vandal to tinker with the numbers in bad faith and have the false information go unnoticed for a long period of time. I have little faith that the figures as they stand now have any relevance to the actual sales/chart positions/ratings.
I have been bold and have gone ahead and removed them. I propose that no information of this type is placed in the article, unless the editor can reference a verifiable source. --Kurt Shaped Box 10:30, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a problem with other articles about contemporary singers as well. See Talk:Hilary Duff#Discography section removed. Extraordinary Machine 19:46, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless anyone has any objections, I will continue to remove any unsourced data added to the article until such time that someone is actually able to provide accurate, verifiable information. --Kurt Shaped Box 22:07, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sales figures, chart positions, RIAA ratings, etc. 

message: Copied from User talk:Gimmepunkorelse:
I notice that you have removed :Category:Punk_rock_musicians from the Avril Lavigne article. I have reverted this edit, as the general established consensus amongst editors of this article seems to be that Lavigne does belong in this category. If you feel that this is incorrect, feel free to open a discussion on the article's talk page explaining your reasoning for this. --Kurt Shaped Box 10:58, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed :Category:Punk_rock_musicians from the Avril Lavigne article because it is incorrect. The general established consensus is wrong if they believe this to be correct and the editors of this article seem to have little to no knowledge of the category. There is already a discussion on the article's talk page on this subject that you have obviously not taken a look at. So that you can be more knowledgeable on what punk really is, you should read over some of the information on punk. -Gimmepunkorelse 21:53, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have read the discussion at Talk:Avril Lavigne, which seems to consist of a series of POV 'I hate Avril, she sucks and is a poseur' type comments, as well as a list of quotations where Lavigne has stated that she considers herself 'punk'. She also seems to be frequently described in the media as 'punk' - though there is some controversy regarding the issue (as already covered in the 'Criticism' section of the main article). I believe that because of this (and because 'punk' can mean a lot of differnt things to a lot of different people) it is correct to list her as a 'punk rock musician', with the 'Criticism' section summing up the other side of the debate to provide impartiality. Consensus amongst the various people who contibute to this article seems to bear this out. As I have already mentioned, if you feel that this is wrong, feel free to raise the issue at Talk:Avril Lavigne. --Kurt Shaped Box 22:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have also read the discussion at Talk:Avril Lavigne and I believe it is composed mostly of unintelligent comments with quotes that are not cited. I agree with you that punk means different things to different people but this is not a discussion on what the populous believe punk to be. The topic that this concerns is what categorizes music as punk. Punk as a genre is defined as having lyrics that often consist of strong political or social protest as well as having a fast, aggressive, and raw sound. Also note that punk is an anti-establishment movement. How can Avril Lavigne be categorized as a punk rock musician when her music clearly does not fit under this category and she participates in this mainstream establishment? -Gimmepunkorelse 03:25, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: By that same logic, you should be going around removing the 'punk' references from every 'pop punk' band, or any 'punk' band signed to a major label that has an article on Wikipedia. 'Punk' is not a genere of music - 'punk' is 'music created by punks'. There is no typical 'punk sound' (or at least there shouldn't be), as punk is supposed to be about ignoring the rules, not simply choosing to accept another set. As I have stated before, there is a paragraph in the main article itself - in the Avril_Lavigne#Image_and_personal_life section (someone moved a few things around last night) which addresses your point of view and criticisms (you could expand on that, if you wished). Continuing to remove Lavigne from the 'punk rock musicians' category introduces bias into the article. --Kurt Shaped Box 13:14, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Lavigne has publicly stated that she considers herself to be a punk - that's good enough for me. It is your opinion that she is not. Personal opinions have no place in Wikipedia article - this is not the place to argue about whether Lavigne is a fake/poser/etc. Also, please do not make assumptions about me and my motives for editing. --Kurt Shaped Box 21:28, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Lavigne stated that she is punk does not make her one. It is ignorant for anyone to believe that stating that you are something makes you it. For example, if I stated that I was of another race it would not make me that race. I am not putting my opinion in this article or stating that Lavigne is a "fake/poser/etc", I am merely fixing the error that she is incorrectly categorized as a punk rock musician. I am sorry for assuming that you are a fan of Avril Lavigne, I had you confused with another user that had Avril Lavigne under a list of artists that he/she liked. -Gimmepunkorelse 21:40, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A white person (for example) stating that they were black would be a ludicrous, easily-refutable statement. A person stating that they are a member of a particular subculture is not. You could state that you believe that Lavigne is not punk until you are blue in the face — you cannot prove that she is not. It's a statement of opinion, which as I have previously pointed out to you does not belong in a Wikipedia article (removing a person from a category for the reasons you have cited is stating that opinion). --Kurt Shaped Box 18:56, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Punk rock musicians]] 

message: Avril lavigne dosen't have any tatoos.  Avril definetly doesn't have any tatoos.  If she did, you would see them in the pictures!  Who ever wrote that, they should check first!
:I don't know if she has any tatoos or not. I remember an interview where she said that she wouldn't have one because she couldnt change it if she didnt like it. However, the article says they are on her wrists so, because we cant see them does not mean they are not there. Banes 06:04, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  tatoos 

message: Is there a reason that the lead section continuously informs the reader of how to pronounce her name? I would appreciate it if the second-example is removed because it drags the sentence into over-gear, which really isn't necessary. Should I not receive a reply, I will take the initiative by placing a  in the article while I debate on the topic with acquiantances interested in linguistics who are not registered on Wikipedia. –Eternal Equinox 19:52, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead section

message: Look, here's a link if you don't believe me!
lyrics page with the song entitled "I'm With You".  Capital "W"!  Oh, and a link from Billboard.com: Billboard's Discography for "Let's Go" with the song entitled "I'm With You"
As you can see, on Billboard (which I'd say strives to be, you know, pretty accurate in their dealings with music, song titles, etc) and Avril's OFFICIAL WEBSITE, the song is spelled with a capital "W" (even though it's not grammatically correct).  Keep in mind that there are MANY song titles that don't adhere to proper English "rules" and it's not up to us to change it if the artist has CHOSEN to go with the grammatically incorrect version.
I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet.  I looked through some of the history and didn't see it mentioned so I thought I'd throw it in and check out the responses.
My thinking is that the song should be documented in Wikipedia with the exact spelling that it is OFFICIALLY documented on her OFFICIAL site.  If anyone has a problem with that, say so now, but if not, I'm going to change the capitalization of "with". Ginnna 08:21, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its also spelled with the capital on the back of Let Go. This has come up before. If you think it should be capitalised then go ahead and be bold. Banez 08:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I came back to the edit page to point out that although I'd seen the conflict about the capitalization, what I hadn't found was anyone pointing out that it'd been capitalized in her official website.  I saw the thing about the "W" on the actual physical albums being capitalized but nothing about the website.  The problem I saw that some people had in the talk above is that they thought it was maybe a typo... but then of course it would also have to be a typo on her official website and on Billboard.  I was pretty much going to change it anyway but since it seemed like such a big little deal, I thought I'd bring it to the talk page first to be polite. Ginnna 08:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avril Lavigne official website spells "I'm With You" 

message: Awards and Nominations earned by Avril Lavigne has been merged here per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Awards and Nominations earned by Avril Lavigne. -- Jonel | Speak 01:54, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mergefrom 

message: Once again, it notice that the Discography section has been populated with unsourced, unreferenced chart positions. As these figures are a prime target for vandalism (and indeed may be completely false as things stand), I have removed them until editors can provide verifiable data from a reliable (online?) source - note the inline comment at the top of the section in question. --Kurt Shaped Box 22:12, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chart postions redux