Talk:Samuel Mudd

message: 8-7-09: Deleted reference to Dr. Mudd whipping a slave. The matter is in dispute. While it is true that the prosecution presented a former slave, Mary Simms, who claimed that Dr. Mudd whipped her, it is also true that several other former slaves testified that Mary Simms could not be believed. Julia Ann Bloyce, another house servant present at the time, testified that Mary Simms was a liar and that Dr. Mudd did not whip her. (Source: National Archives microfilm M599. Julia Ann Bloyce testimony of May 25, 1865.)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robertsummers (talk • contribs) 17:48, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: can you (or anyone else) provide a citation for the earlier use of the phrase?  In any case, since this connection is widely documented and believed it should be in the wikipedia, even if it is only to correct this misunderstanding.  Wrs1864 04:06, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Online Etymology Dictionary entry for mud  has the first recorded instance of 'your name is mud', to mean that one is discredited, from 1823, well before Samuel Mudd was even born. Apparently it's from 'mud' in the obsolete sense of "a stupid twaddling fellow". I'm going to edit to reflect this. (and I've just realised the link already there concurs).Number36 04:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for fixing this.  I'm almost certain that the first reference didn't mention the 1823 usage when I added it, but maybe I missed it.  It's good to get this nailed down anyway. Wrs1864 04:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: On the Antiques Roadshow in Baltimore (2007) with a cane that Mudd had made. It was appraised at $5,000-$10,000. (Not article worthy but sort of interesting.) []  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.124.29.130 (talk) 08:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mudd cane on Antiques Roadshow 

message: The section does not contain a citation until the last paragraph. It is also, arguably, the most important section in the article. Until the paragraph regarding his trial there are numerous statements which I think need citations such as "Most historians agree", "Some historians" and "others believe". JHobbs103 (talk) 09:28, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Booth connection section citations 

message: Investigating a missing subject in the second clause of the Fort Jefferson soldiers' petition, I came across a secondary reference to it via Google Books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=bWSZa3sFo-8C&pg=PA70&dq=surviving+Fort+Jefferson+soldiers+signed+a+petition
If the "original" is available online in via the National Archives, I could not locate it. The citation given by Robert Summers (above) is "U.S. National Archives, College Park, Md., RG 204, Samuel A. Mudd Pardon File B-596." RG (record group) 204 refers to the Records of the Office of the Pardon Attorney. I did not disturb the Wikipedia citation, being unfamiliar with your style guidelines. I'm adding these details here in case they matter to anyone. Michael (talk) 00:38, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for checking.  I noticed your improvement of the quote there.  Unfortunately that book you link to up there is self-published (lulu.com), so not useable here.  We tend to take editors' words on what sources say when they're not available online, unless there's something really strange about what they're being used to support.  You can read up on what's acceptable at WP:RS if you're interested in learning more.— alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 02:33, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops. Please excuse my naïveté regarding what one finds on Google Books; it never occurred to me to check the publisher. Thanks for the catch, and for pointing me toward further guidance. Best, Michael (talk) 07:09, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: While we're on the subject, the work cited in (misplaced?) note 14, Serup on Chiniquy, seems to be a self-published validation of the ravings of a notorious crank: "Paul Serup (2008). Who Killed Abraham Lincoln?: An investigation of North America's most famous ex-priest's assertion that the Roman Catholic Church was behind the assassination of America's greatest President. Salmova Press." http://www.salmovapress.com/ Michael (talk) 07:23, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh, yeah, good catch.  That's clearly self-published.  If you find stuff like that, you have a few choices.  If the material seems loony and it's cited to a loony source, you can remove both.  If the material seems plausible but it's cited to a loony source, you can try to find nonloony sources and replace the loony sources with them and if you can't find reliable sources you can either remove the source and leave the plausible material, or do that and also tag it with a citation needed template. If you're not sure whether the source is loony or not, you can add templates like  or , which give  and  or , which give .— alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 16:47, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, thanks for the tips and for going ahead with the cleanup! Michael (talk) 05:57, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The soldiers' petition for pardon 

message: Since I thought pardoning included an expunging of a conviction but the article says that the descendants have requested that Presidents expunge the conviction, I must ask whether Mudd was pardoned or commuted?76.246.60.111 (talk) 11:53, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pardoned or commuted? 

message: No mention at all the article, so what's the point of this fuzzy picture of an alleged article from 1979?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.43.213 (talk) 15:38, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Washington Post photo 

message: Growing up, the cliché used to dissuade someone from an action was "You wouldn't want your name to be 'Mudd'?  Of course, we knew this to be a reference to the last name of John Wilkes Booth doctor, who had probably taken an oath to treat his patient.  At any rate, the first time I clicked on this link, I saw the list of his descendants and almost had a heart attack.  I was in shock.  I thought, "How could they list his children? What are they doing?  Don't they know the cliché?"  Here in NYC, I made the comment at a hospital.  However, the person I was talking to did not seem to know who Dr. Mudd was.  So, I tried to quickly give him a brief history lesson.  There was a recent program on Fox Network with a brief mention of Dr. Mudd.  I grew up hearing an assortment of clichés, many of which many might not take to kindly to and the implications I did not always understand.  However, within those cliché were often American historical references.
I have discovered something hilarious after writing this.  It seems the maiden name of Dr. Mudd's mother has been appeared in the genealogical research recently, but I never made the connection.  I guess the joke is on me now.  I can't wait to share this with the horse's mouth.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:E944:B500:FD04:93A2:68C0:13AD (talk) 01:42, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  You wouldn't want you name to be "Mudd"? 

message: I have reverted the edit by 143.195.109.123 of 27 September 2017. Mudd was charged with conspiracy to murder, whether or not historians are agreed that he was guilty. The lede summarises what is in the article. Valetude (talk) 07:24, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conspiracy charge 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Why on earth would he hide a piece of evidence like that in a secret compartment in his attic instead of destroying or discarding of it? AnnaGoFast (talk) 02:52, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hid a monogrammed boot? 

message: A large part of this article was entered by user Robertsummers. Substantial portions of it come from one or more self-published books written by one Robert K. Summers, who describes himself as Samuel Mudd's great-grandson. Nothing was footnoted or quoted. What at first seemed to be plagiarism seems more to be original research. His books include "Dr. Samuel A. Mudd at Fort Jefferson" (verbatim quoted in Later Life section), "The Fall and Redemption of Dr. Samuel A. Mudd," and "The Slaves of Dr. Samuel A. Mudd," available to view in Google Books. I've put one footnote in. Someone with more energy than me may want to rewrite or chase down other sources.  ElrondPA (talk) 05:50, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: A pardon overturns the conviction as well as the sentence, so this article is confusing and probably just wrong. Perhaps you mean that the sentence was commuted. Richard75 (talk) 00:04, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  A pardon quashes the conviction 

message: Was he really known for "Being John Wilkes Booth's doctor", as is stated in the info box? Wouldn't "Giving medical treatment to John Wilkes Booth" be more accurate and less misleading? Yitz711 (talk) 14:20, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Known for what?