Talk:Amy Johnson

message: I've removed the following bit from the Trivia section - "...while Australian band INXS include the song "Johnson's Aeroplane" on their album The Swing". The lyrics seem to me to be about a farmer called Johnson, and there's no mention of a relationship to Amy Johnson on Google, so unless it's mentioned on paper somewhere, it could safely stay out. - Gobeirne 18:51, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  INXS lyrics 

message: There is a life size statue of Amy Johnson in her home town of Hull. The statue can be seen outside the Prosect Shopping Centre in Hull Town Centre. Johnwrd (talk) 01:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statue in Home Town. 

message: Did AJ ever write about her own life and flying career (like Amelia did in The Fun of It and Last Flight)?  I'm very interested in the details of pioneering flights, and I'm currently looking for AJ's autobio/flight diaries, but I don't know where to find them.  Thanks in advance, and clear skies to you!  67.170.215.166 (talk) 04:00, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Not heard of an autobiography, but if there are any flight diaries then Sewerby Hall would be the place to inquire as they have a large collection of most of the artefacts relating to her that were donated by her family. Keith D (talk) 12:17, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autobiography? 

message: There is a bare URL at the bottom of the External Links on this page. It leads to a badly-written post about an unaccredited eye witness account to Amy's death. I am inclined to delete it, but wanted someone else's opinion before I did. --MyrtleGal (talk) 18:41, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree that it should be removed - if a book is produced then it can be added. Keith D (talk) 20:17, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bare URL 

message: Shouldn't the feminine titles be used in this article.
Aviator, masculine
Aviatrix, feminine as used in American footage and articles about Amelia Earhart.
Executive, masculine. 
Executress, feminine.  AT Kunene (talk) 12:02, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a look at Wikipedia:Gender-neutral language for reasons for current text. Keith D (talk) 13:06, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Apart from there being a Wikipedia policy on the topic, in modern English, the use of male and female versions is becoming rare. Even actresses and waitresses are known as actors and waiters. A word like aviatrix is virtually unknown to the general population. Also I am not sure that I have ever heard the word executrix and I don't think it would be the feminine of executive but more likely executor.Dabbler (talk) 13:11, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

text: The term is period accurate, used only once and was the result of a discussion about the terminology that reflected the period.  FWiW  Bzuk (talk) 01:07, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: We need absolute consistency when referring to all the female aviators on wikipedia. The aviator article itself claims, "The term aviatrix (aviatrice in French), now archaic, was formerly used for a female aviator". Why should we cling to an archaic term that no one uses and few seem to understand. the terminology needs to be consistent throughout all of the aviation articles and throughout the same article. Using an archaic term once in an article and then using the modern equivalent is pointless. It is enough that that aviatrix is mentioned in the aviators article. RichTBiscuit (talk) 01:54, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless there is some groundswell of other support, this is essentially a "non-issue" as it is only used once, does not predominate and is there to provide context. (LOL: Please be sure you dismount properly when you come off your high horse.) FWiW  Bzuk (talk) 02:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  If it is a "non-issue" then why have you gone out of your way to include a note on the Amy Johnson page. All i'm saying is that there is no need to have the term aviatrix, because it is potentially confusing and completely unnecessary. It seems to be enough that the term aviatrix is mentioned in the aviators page, which describes it as archaic. I don't understand your longing to have archaic words represented in a page to keep the language "period accurate",while doing so sacrifices consistency and understanding. As you said, "aviator means aviator", and in the introduction there is no need to reinforce that she is a woman, it is clear that this is the case. As she is famous because of her gender it should be noted (as you have done - and should probably be in the introduction) that she was the first woman to fly solo from Britain to Australia, which sounds better than first female pilot. I also think that this should be the case on the Amelia Earhart page, that she was the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic Ocean - this keeps it consistent with how we talk about other female specific achievements on other pages like Valentina Tereshkova, "the first woman to have flown in space", not the first female cosmonaut in space. The fact that the term is period accurate should make no difference, authoress is also a dated and period accurate term but i dont see anyone rushing to include it in the Charlotte Bronte page. RichTBiscuit (talk) 12:44, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I support keeping the single mention of the term aviatrix. Johnson made the term famous and it is period-correct. Removing it now, just because the term has fallen out of favour, seems to be a form of historical revisionism. It wasn't an insult at the time and the article would be less accurate and less complete without mention of it. - Ahunt (talk) 13:37, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

text:  If the general consensus is that 'aviatrix' should be used once in the introduction for historical integrity, then this should be included with a note, like the one that is there now, saying that aviatrix is a period accurate description. (Either that or remove the reference to aviatrix being an archaic term on the aviators page, but i agree that it is archaic, or at least very dated). Whatever the consensus, it should be made consistent across all of the female aviator pages, of the same time period. (Either way the mention of her being the first woman to fly solo from Britain to Australia in the note should be removed as it already mentions this in the main article) RichTBiscuit (talk) 14:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

text: I am also opposed to the use of aviatrix anywhere in the article, unless it happened to occur in a contemporary quotation. As far as I can see that is not the case here. Dabbler (talk) 22:57, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that the term Aviatrix should be completely expunged from this page and also the Amelia Earhart page because there seems to be very few reputable sources that use the term. These sources all use either pilot or aviator - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18670292, http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/175680/Amelia-Earhart, http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/305255/Amy-Johnson, http://www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/discover/hull_history_centre/our_collections/hull_people/amyjohnson.aspx, http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/onlinestuff/stories/amy_johnson.aspx. If neither the BBC or Encyclopedia Britannica is using the term then I don't see why it should be on wikipedia. I also think that pilot should be used in reference to Amy Johnson because she worked for the Air Transport Auxiliary, and her designation would have been as a pilot. the Air Transport Auxiliary page itself describes 166 pilots (female) not 166 aviatrices. RichTBiscuit (talk) 23:08, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Completely expunged is a bit harsh as the term is clearly associated with Amy Johnson and other female aviators. I dont think we have a rule that says we should ignore contemporary use of words and terms. References can be found of the term is more recent usage, the London Times used the term to describe the Duchess of York in 1987 and the Times in 2006 Fourteen of about 130 women pilots of the ATA lost their lives during the war, one of the fatal casualties being the celebrated aviatrix Amy Johnson. MilborneOne (talk) 00:08, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with what FWiW  Bzuk has done on both the Amy Johnson and Amelia Earhart page, in replacing aviatrix with a more modern and commonly used term, but referencing the fact that Aviatrix has period significance in a note. Aviatrix does occasionally crop up in modern sources but this is vastly outweighed by either aviator or pilot. RichTBiscuit (talk) 00:20, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The word Aviatrix appears 842 times in Wikipedia, so clearly it is in general use within Wikipedia without appearing to be an issue. Although I appreciate Bzuks effort to compromise I cant see any valid reason to hide the term in this or any of the 800 other articles. All that is being asked is that the original one mention in the lead be restored as it was before, no more. MilborneOne (talk) 00:22, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

text:  How many times does aviator or pilot appear? The valid reason, at least in my eyes, is that the term is obscure and dated. Although you, Bzuk and me have found modern sources that use the term, I found a fox news article that referred to her as an aviatrix and a flier, there are numerous words to refer to the pilot of an aircraft but the most clear and commonly used should be used. I think that aviatrix is obscure and dated enough to make the intro less clear and precise in what it is trying to put across, and using it only once only decreases clarity. RichTBiscuit (talk) 00:40, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree - as long as the term is explained then it adds to the historical correctness of the article. - Ahunt (talk) 11:22, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Titles 

message: To the above lets add 
    Executrix......Vive La Differance.
So lets get it right shall we?
AT Kunene (talk) 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add 

message: This claim is not accurate. I believe the first female ATA member to die in service was Elsie Joy Davison (nee Muntz) killed in training 8 July 1940 (http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2450523/DAVISON,%20ELSIE%20JOY)
Frothelhorse (talk) 09:53, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the statement as it wasn't referenced, if anybody can come up with a reliable reference then is can be put back but seems unlikely per cwgc reference. MilborneOne (talk) 11:42, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Johnson was the first member of the Air Transport Auxiliary to die in service" 

message: Substituted at 07:39, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Amy Johnson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.alstewart.com/blog.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080724170047/http://www.tomcampbellblack.150m.com/ to http://www.tomcampbellblack.150m.com
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110707055345/http://tomcampbellblack2.150m.com/ to http://www.tomcampbellblack2.150m.com
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:03, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have suggested at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tracey Curtis-Taylor that that article be replaced by a redirect to this one and a sentence or two in the article here. What do people think? --John (talk) 01:47, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really relevant to this article at all, probably not worth mentioning. We dont mention any other aviators who have used her name in connection with a England-Australia flight. MilborneOne (talk) 12:36, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Have there been many? If, as I suspect this is quite a commonplace exploit in the modern age, that is all the more reason to delete the other article. I'm not fussy about this being the target of a redirect. --John (talk) 13:30, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heads-up 

message: Not sure who runs this wikipedia page, however it would be very nice to know what a "Ground Engineer" is..
""She was introduced to flying ... she became the first British woman to obtain a ground engineer's "C" licence."
see lots of referneces made to this title and license, but nothing in wikipedia about it!
206.116.166.9 (talk) 09:13, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ground Engineer... 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Amy Johnson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120131153022/http://nfsa.gov.au/sounds-australia-supplement/our-heroes-air/ to http://www.nfsa.gov.au/sounds-australia-supplement/our-heroes-air/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081018192618/http://www.cometracer.co.uk/Default.aspx to http://www.cometracer.co.uk/Default.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120131153022/http://nfsa.gov.au/sounds-australia-supplement/our-heroes-air/ to http://www.nfsa.gov.au/sounds-australia-supplement/our-heroes-air/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:08, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Amy Johnson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120315124343/http://www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/discover/hull_history_centre/our_collections/hull_people/amyjohnson.aspx to http://www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/discover/hull_history_centre/our_collections/hull_people/amyjohnson.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071107124415/http://www.queenoftheair.co.uk/ to http://www.queenoftheair.co.uk/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:41, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Amy Johnson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120917003512/http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/onlinestuff/stories/amy_johnson.aspx?page=6 to http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/onlinestuff/stories/amy_johnson.aspx?page=6
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100904122412/http://www.lgfl.net/lgfl/leas/sutton/schools/amy-johnson/homepage/home/ to http://www.lgfl.net/lgfl/leas/sutton/schools/amy-johnson/homepage/home/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110723035308/http://www.aerosocietychannel.com/2011/06/women-in-aerospace-newsletter-june11/ to http://www.aerosocietychannel.com/2011/06/women-in-aerospace-newsletter-june11/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930210534/http://www.historynet.com/magazines/british_heritage/3026906.html to http://www.historynet.com/magazines/british_heritage/3026906.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:42, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:23, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:52, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: Most ATA flights were made without radios (or indeed navigation instruments) fitted. The pilots had to manage with just a map and compass. Is there any independent evidence as to whether Amy's aircraft even had a radio with which to send the alleged "wrong signal", or that she would have been given any special recognition codes? There were certainly incidents of ATA flights been fired on because they didn't (couldn't) respond to radio hails, but a claim of receiving a wrong code would throw the whole "shoot down" story into considerable doubt. Markjeff (talk) 11:23, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be strange to remove a radio from an aircraft used for radio and navigation training just for a ferry flight and put another one back in when it arrived at Oxford. MilborneOne (talk) 18:19, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ATA pilots did, notoriously, have to fly without radio, which made navigation difficult. See https://atamuseum.org/ See also 'Why Can't We Have Radio?' by former ATA pilot Michael Murtagh, Aeroplane Monthly, August 1974, pp.310-313. (The article was actually written in 1945, describing the author's crash due to bad weather when flying an Anson over Cumberland. He was not found for three days and died of his injuries in 1946.) If Amy had had radio, she might not have got lost. The shootdown story is improbable as the 58th (Kent) Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA, the unit in question, did not have any guns anywhere near Herne Bay. Their batteries seem to have been considerably further west, protecting the London approaches, at Sittingbourne, Erith and Bromley. They did move around occasionally, but the only other recorded locations are Allhallows and Dartford, again much further west than Herne Bay. They may have fired on an aircraft, but it's unlikely to have been Amy's and if it failed to flash the Colours of the Day it may have been German.  http://amyjohnsonartstrust.co.uk/her-life/  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Home_Counties_Brigade,_Royal_Field_Artillery The convoy ships did not report any ack-ack. Given the time Amy had been airborne, the presumption is that the Oxford simply ran out of fuel and Amy bailed out -- the normal procedure in that emergency if you couldn't see anywhere to put down -- without realising she was over the sea. As this means she couldn't see the ground, it also means the AA gunners could not have had her aircraft continuously in view as the shootdown story suggests. Khamba Tendal (talk) 12:12, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shooting down controversy 

message: I think this article could do with a bit of additional input. I'll go though in the next few days and see if I can help. Littleolive oil (talk) 23:53, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I tuned up the pop culture bit. I happened to love “Flying Sorcery.” I think that “friendly fire” theory discussed in the thread above is rather dubious and I’d want to see additional verification, or have it mentioned if the theory was debunked. Also, there is a need for some image cleanup, the gallery needs to go and there is “sandwich” of images elsewhere. But I don’t want to make the call what to keep and what to dump.  Montanabw(talk) 05:01, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes needed? 

message: Not seeing a source for this. I'll look more later today. 
The aircraft is preserved in the Science Museum, London. Littleolive oil (talk) 12:34, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parked for now 

message: Might be worth mentioning that she was Anglo-Danish. The family's real name was Jorgensen, anglicised as Johnson. Her father was born in Fyn, Denmark, to a Danish father and Hull mother.Silverwhistle (talk) 20:09, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anglo-Danish 

message: Here is a publically accessible source for Tom Mitchell's story of how he may have shot down Amy Johnson: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/feb/06/6  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.1.160.160 (talk • contribs) 09:37, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death theory