Talk:Nahienaena

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*Added archive https://archive.is/20120717215303/http://wehewehe.org/cgi-bin/hdict?e=q&a=q&l=en&q=nahi&d=D13986 to http://wehewehe.org/cgi-bin/hdict?e=q&a=q&l=en&q=nahi&d=D13986
*Added archive https://archive.is/20120720170932/http://wehewehe.org/cgi-bin/hdict?e=q&a=q&l=en&q=enaena to http://wehewehe.org/cgi-bin/hdict?e=q&a=q&l=en&q=enaena
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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I found a contemporaneous source that states the princess's date of death as having been on January 5, 1837 -- a week later than the date suggested by other sources (including Gavin Daws in 'Shoal of Time').  The source is the journal of John Kirk Townsend -- a naturalist who visited the Hawaiian Islands twice between 1835 and 1837, and who was acquainted with Kamehameha III -- published in 1839 with the verbose title 'Narrative of a Journey Across the Rocky Mountains, to the Columbia River, and a Visit to the Sandwich Islands, Chili, &c'.  In it he wrote, on January 3, 1837 that he met with the King and found him "suffering great distress of mind on account of the extreme illness of his favorite and only sister, the princess Harieta Nahienaena" and "While we were yet conversing with the king, a messenger came to say that she was worse, and desired to see him."  A few days later, on January 6, 1837, he wrote "Yesterday the Princess Harieta died.  Scarcely was the circumstance known in the town, when it was announced to all by the most terrific and distressing crying and wailing amongst all ranks and classes of people."
Later, on January 27, 1837, Townsend paid his respects at the princess's casket and described the brass plaque upon it as saying "Harieta Nahienaena, aged 22 years, died on the 30th of December, in the year of our Lord, 1836" and then goes on to say "This appears like a contradiction.  It is stated on the coffin plate, that the princess died on the 30th of December, when it did not actually occur until the 5th of January.  This is accounted for, by the peculiar, and in some measure, reasonable doctrine of the Sandwich Islanders, that a person experiences two deaths; one of the mind, and another of the body. Now the mind of the princess died, i.e., became deranged, on the 30th of December, although her body did not die until the 5th of January."
I wonder if this constitutes sufficient grounds to edit the date of death in the article.  This seems like a reliable source, and one that perhaps has been overlooked.  But it would be a bit presumptuous of me to conclude that bona fide historians have overlooked this fact for nigh on two centuries, and that someone such as I, who claims at most to be an extremely amateur historian, have stumbled upon the truth.  I hope to look into this further, and perhaps try and reach out to some real authorities on Hawaiian history, but wanted to note it here before I forget where I read it.  Anyone else know anything about this discrepancy?
Kiwikiu (talk) 07:13, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This is worth looking into. Kamakau uses the December date. I’m gonna see if I can pull up some other contemporary reference since the missionaries kept journals too. —KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:26, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I only looked at few sources but the majority uses the December date even a recent 2017 book about Hawaii royal deaths and funerals. I haven’t looked at primary source missionary account (I think the only online I know are Levi Chamberlain’s letters). But I think it is significant to mention the discrepancy and quote Townsend as a an add on to the content in this article but not to remove the December date until peer reviewed secondary sources are available on the issue. Congrats on stumbling another twist to the game or historical researches. -KAVEBEAR (talk) 18:59, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the feedback.  If it was customary to mark graves with death dates as described by Townsend, then it's quite understandable why such a discrepancy would persist.  I'm now curious if this truly was a customary practice and, if so, how long it went on for -- and therefore how many other death dates might also be off by some number of days. Kiwikiu (talk) 21:34, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not know of anything like that and don’t think there is any example.—KAVEBEAR (talk) 21:48, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nāhiʻenaʻena's Date of Death