Talk:Nazirite

message: My reason for suggesting the addition of this section is particularly with Samson in mind, as his superhuman strength was dependent on upholding his Nazirite vow, the Nazirite vow is a key component of his character/story. I believe this could be a valuable addition to the article. 2601:1C0:6D02:3C10:40A1:D6AB:F929:EFD2 (talk) 04:41, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Section suggestion: Notable Nazirites

message: I don't know how this was ever put in.  Women are and always were included in the laws of Nazirite.  The verse itself states :
::Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them: When either man or woman shall clearly utter a vow, the vow of a Nazirite, to consecrate himself unto the LORD
This is also stated in the jewishencyclopedia ("Women and slaves, who did not have full rights before the religious law, could take the Nazarite vow, but only with the consent of their husbands or owners,") and in the Catholic Encyclopedia ("According to the law in Num. (vi, 1-21) Nazarites might be of either sex.") and in many Jewish Works (Mishneh Torah and Mishna)
Jon513 15:41, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: (and in the Hellenistic period the woman too)

message: I removed the phrase
:The regulations which apply to him actually agree with those for the High Priest and for the priests during worship, as described in Leviticus and in Ezekiel.
This statement was partially copied from the Jewish Encyclopedia (As the Jewish Encyclopedia is public domain that is not a copy violation), the full statement read as follows
:the regulations which apply to him actually agree with those for the high priest and for the priests during worship (Lev. x. 8 et seq., xxi.; Ezek. xliv. 21).
Leviticus (10:8) reads:
:Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations
The connection between the Nazirite's prohibition to drink wine and the prohibition of the  priest to drink while serving is stated in the Talmud, but nevertheless this sentence is not for wikipedia for the following reasons
#The statement in the talmud is not a universal opinion.  R' Yehudah disagrees and says that there is no connection
#The Rambam in the Mishneh Torah (beah Ha'mikdash 1:1-5) rules like R' Yehudah (see the Kesef mishna there)
#It seems that the connection was only one way.  Namely laws about the priest were derived from the Nazirite not the other way around.  So if this statement belongs anywhere it should be in a law about the priest no drinking while serving in the temple.
#The simple meaning of the statement is not true. While there may be some connection between the Nazirite and the priest there are many ways that they are different.  For example a Nazirite can drink other non-grape intoxicants while a priest cannot.
In conclusion this statement relates to obscure Halacha exegesis and doesn't belong here
Jon513 12:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The regulations which apply to him...

message: "The practice of a Nazarite vow is part of the obscurity of the Greek term "Nazarene" that appears in the New Testament; the sacrifice of a lamb and the offering of bread does suggest a relationship with Christian symbolism." How is the practice part of the obscurity? The sacrifice of a lamb make by Jesus is even obscurer. --Wetman 00:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A better edit is needed

message: I removed the following text from the article.  it appears to have been commented out for some time until someone removed the comments.  It needs more sourcing.
:"The Rav David Cohen HaNazir was the last prominent figure to have declaired a Nazirite vow under the auspices of Rav Kook, the first chief Rabbi of Israel.   
:"There are still much lower profile Nazirites in Israel to this day.
:"Currently there is a community of Nazirites helping Ethiopian Jews build a community in Lachish, Israel. For Hebrew readers, please see: http://www.kalot.net/makeda In English - http://www.geocities.com/makeda_judah
--Jon513 11:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed text 

message: I have made a major revision to this article, adding a summary of the Jewish Law related to the Nazirite.  I plan on adding a section of differing philosophical view of the nazirite in the future (i.e. is the nazirite a good thing or a necessary evil).  Jon513 18:15, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  May 14 revision 

message: This section lacks sources and appear to have a good dose of orginal research.  Parts of it contradict other parts of wikipedia (according to Nazarene, Nazarene has nothing to do with Nazirite - in hebrew they are completely unrelated!).  Jon513 18:18, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're correct (of course) about Nazirite/Nazarene, but this is a mistake that's shockingly common. TCC (talk) (contribs) 18:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My greater concern is that this is a not a mistake, but written by someone with some unique beliefs.  See User talk:Michael.Pohoreski#Nazirite. Jon513 18:32, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It didn't sound too far off to me. It's generally assumed, on no evidence I know of but his lifestyle, that John the Baptist had taken Nazirite vows. Paul of Tarsus is explicitly said to have shaved his head due to a vow (Acts 18), and this is typically taken to mean as a Nazirite. Similar vows are mentioned in Acts 21, concerning four unnamed men who go into the Temple to "complete...their purification" over seven days with an offering. (Considering that Christian worship requires the consumption of wine, I have no idea how this might work.) The notion that Jesus himself was a Nazirite, on other grounds than the common error related to his home village, I must admit is new to me and may well be OR. TCC (talk) (contribs) 18:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Either way, citations would be nice. TCC (talk) (contribs) 18:55, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

text: By "completely unrelated" I meant that the words sound nothing alike in Hebrew. To answer your question: Yes, the words are much to confuse in Hebrew. It is very unlikely that they got confused in New Testament times and they are not confused today by anyone who has looked into the issue. Original research does not mean that it does not make any sense.  It means that there is not a published reliable sources saying it (WP:RS). If you can find a notable historian or theologian making such a claim, that historian or theologian should be quoted.  Jon513 13:31, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fellow of the Jesus Seminar Robert M. Price, quoted this on his "The Bible Geek" Radio show, as an explaination for Nazereth being said to be Jesus home town whan it did not exist at the time of the Gospels. Are the words similar in Aramaic or Greek? Mike Young 11:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  He also published this in a book called "The incredible shrinking Son of Man" which said this (p 53)
Despite the rendering of many English Bible translations, Jesus is very seldom called "Jesus from Nazareth" in the Gospels. Mark calls him "Jesus the Nazarene," as does Luke twice (Mark 1:24, 10:47, 14:67, 16:6; Luke 4:34, 24:9), while Matthew, John, and Acts always call him "Jesus the Nazorean" (Matt. 26:71; John 18:7, 19:19; Acts 2:22, 3:6, 4:10, 6:14, 22:8, 26:9), with Luke using this epithet once (Luke 18:37, the Bar-Timaeus episode, where he has replaced Mark's "Nazarene" with it). Some critics have questioned whether the village of Nazareth even existed in the time of Jesus, since it receives no mention outside the Gospels until the third century. Whether that is important or not, the difference between "Nazarene" and "Nazorean" does give us reason to suspect that the familiar epithet does not after all denote Jesus' hailing from a village called Nazareth. "The Nazarene" would imply that, but not "the Nazorean." That seems to be a sect name, equivalent to "the Essene" or "the Hasid." Epiphanius, an early Christian cataloguer of "heresies," mentions a pre-Christian sect called "the Nazoreans," their name meaning "the Keepers" of the Torah, or possibly of the secrets (see Mark 4:11, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, "but to those outside all is by way of parable"). These Nazoreans were the heirs, supposedly, of the neoprimitivist sect of the Rechabites descending from the times of Jeremiah (Jer. 35:1-10). They were rather like Gypsies, itinerant carpenters. "Nazorean" occurs once unambiguously in the New Testament itself as a sect designation, in Acts 24:5: "a ring leader of the sect of the Nazoreans." Robert Eisler, Hugh J. Schonfield, and others have plausibly suggested that Jesus (and early Christians generally) were members of this Jewish pious sect. Many more modern scholars have followed Strauss in an equivalent theory, seeing Jesus as an apprentice and disciple of John the Baptist, in short, a member of his sect until John was arrested, at which time Jesus would have taken on his mantle as Elisha did Elijah's. Mike Young 11:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The section needs modern scholars who echo these claims to quoted.  As it stands now it is dangerously close to WP:OR. Jon513 09:09, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I would love to know what your source is for this theory.  Jon513 (talk) 18:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nazirites and the New Testament 

message: I have removed the following (posted by an IP address):
:Mainly in the southern US, existting with-in other churches, a sect of modern Nazarites exsist, however their vows are significantly diffrent. Insted of growing the hair, it is cut to a shave at the beginning of each month. (As a sign that purifty can not be achieved humanly.) Modern Nazarites are expressed largely in personal prayer, which takes place at the end of each month, a time of hardship for theirself or a close friend, or after a death. Nazarites also fast in daylight from Christmas until the dawn of the New Year, this is a symbolism of Jesus gift of purity to human kind. A time of private prayer is also spent the night of the turn of the new year, as at the end of each month they last several hours and end with the shaving of the head at dawn. Modern Nazarites rarely meet in groups and also rarely meet more nazarites than those who bring them into the traditions. (This is because it imposses a doctrine of a Personal Faith, one of the few actual thought doctrines of the Nazarite.)
As it lacks content and sources. Jon513 17:43, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gentile Nazirite 

message: Brak (talk · contribs) removed (perhaps unknowingly) the phrase "even those of family members" from "Avoid corpses and graves".  My intention in the statement was the make the reader aware that the commandment of a Nazir to avoid corpses is stricter than that of a priest which can be defiled for close family (Leviticus 21).  Jon513 12:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "even those of family members" 

message: So let me get this straight: A person can become "holy unto the Lord" if he/she follows the Nazi rite?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.167.226.70 (talk) 11:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a place to talk about the article - not the subject of the article.  If something is unclear and you think it has to be explained, please say how.  If you just want to talk was nazirite - or biblical criticism in general - I would recommend that you find a forum that deals with such topics. Jon513 22:26, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seems a little strange to me.. 

message: 72.229.44.16 (talk · contribs) placed the following message at the beginning of the section "Nazirites in the New Testament"
:This is pseudo-scholarship Bunk based on incomplete information - The word Nazorean of the Jesus movement had nothing to do with the Nazarite (although Nazarites played a part)- from comparison with the Mandaeans (followers of John the Baptist), we can see that the term/label/name Nazorean had to do with a title the perfected leaders of this Jesus Messianic movement had, which in Hebrew was Ha-NoTSRi (which the designation used for Jesus in the Talmud, Yeshua Ha-Notsri NOT Ha-Nazari) and is the same word misused by Hebrew speakers today for Christian, NoTSRim (which means Watchman, or Guardians (of the Law/Torah). After the Jewish wars and the extermination of the Jewish populous from Palestine, Saul's and his faith first antinomian supersessionist Christians began to assert themselves as the orthodoxy, and the Notsrim ie Nazoreans/Nazarenes were labeled as heretics. The true word Notsrim, let alone the true meanings would have been lost if not for the Church fathers who faithfully recorded everything in an impotent attempts to denigrate the truth.
I replaced the message with a  and copied the arguments here to facilitate further discussion.  Jon513 (talk) 21:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  dispute on "Nazirites in the New Testament" 

message: Although the nazirite vow is part of the Jewish tradition, and is basically a Jewish phenomenon, it has been influential on other modern religions, particularly Rastafari.  Therefore, it is appropriate that this should be mentioned in the article.
I've restored the section on the Rastafari movement, which was mysteriously and anonymously removed without comment last October: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nazirite&diff=prev&oldid=165598304
However, I've also edited the text, hopefully making it quite clear and uncontroversial that the Rastafari and Jewish traditions are distinct, with different interpretations, and that the nazirite vow of Samson is described basically as an inspiration for modern Rastafari.
By the way, I've noticed some inconsistency within this article regarding capitalization.  In some parts of the History section, "Nazirite" is capitalized, though in most of the article it is not.  What is correct here? zadignose (talk) 00:15, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with the section is that it completely lacks any source.  The source cited no longer exist online, but even when it did (I found it) it was a very poor source.  Jon513 (talk) 09:01, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rastafari 

message: In regards to capitalization, the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia, 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia and the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica all capitalize "Nazirite" but I do not know why.  Perhaps they view a Nazirite as an important religious figure which is capitalized see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (capital letters)#Religions, deities, philosophies, doctrines and their adherents. Nevertheless I think it should not be capitalized.  Jon513 (talk) 09:01, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Basic grammar. Of course Nazarite should be capitalized, because it is a proper noun. 75.15.201.129 (talk) 19:18, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Capitalization

message: I wonder if the name of Nazareth has anythign to do with Nazirites. If so, calling Jesus a "Nazarene" would boil down to the same basic etymology, although it would still not be known whether he was a Nazirite or came from Nazareth. (And since he went around handling wine anyway ("This is my blood..."), according to the Christian Bible, he apparently wasn't all that orthodox a Nazirite if he was, indeed, a Nazirite. 204.52.215.107 (talk) 03:59, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it possible that the Author or Transcriber of the Gospel spoke a non-Semitic language. To us the words are impossible to mix up, but they might be the same in Greek or Latin. 173.3.112.55 (talk) 07:32, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: They aren't. Nuttyskin (talk) 03:37, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: City name of [[Nazareth]]

message: A paragraph-long alternative exegesis regarding a kind of "nazareth-nazarite confusion" is given in this article without any source. I'm removing it as Original Synthesis/Research until sources are provided. Here is the text:
::Appeal has been made to "nazirite" rather than "of Nazareth" or "the Nazarene" for the origin of these Hebrew/Aramaic epithets for Jesus. This conclusion is based in part on the prophecy in  that says of Jesus, "And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene." It is doubtful that the prophets had actually said 'Nazarene', rather than 'Nazirite', because reference bibles state that the prophecy cited in Matt. 2:23 is in reference to  concerning Samson's description as "a Nazirite to God from the womb to the day of his death". In addition, there is no word translated ‘Nazarene’ or any reference to a city of 'Nazareth' in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). Furthermore, although  describes John the Baptist as a Nazirite from birth, John implied that Jesus was holier than he in , which says, "Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him". Thus Jesus was baptized, immersion in water being a fulfillment of the nazirite vow.
NJMauthor (talk) 20:30, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Original Research

message: Why did anyone become a nazirite? Increased charisma or magical powers? Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 09:48, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I was wondering about that. Is this addressed at all in the article? If not it should be addressed. -- Brangifer (talk) 03:46, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Why become a Nazirite?

message: i noticed that this whole articles bares some similarties with the article "hermit". since i don't think im knoledgeble enough to make any changes i'll only make a segestion: make some link or mention of "hermit" on this page. even if there isn't any connection, or atleast enough diffrences, just mentioning that "hermit" is somthing else would be very nice.
:i hope someone will find this relevent.
:anyway,thank you for reading and may you have a good day.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by EsB (talk • contribs) 20:57, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: is "hermit" relevent?

message: An editor keeps restoring information that is irrelevant to this article, is unsourced editorializing, and only has one reference, a YouTube video. Please stop adding this or risk being blocked. Please explain why this should be in the article. -- Brangifer (talk) 04:26, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain why this is irrelevant about this topic.  Thanks  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.118.117 (talk) 04:34, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  What part of what I wrote above and in my edit summaries don't you understand? What do Sikh's have to do with Hebrew Nazirite's? What reliable sources do you have that show such an association? If you can establish such an association using reliable sources, then you might be able to make a case for inclusion in this article and I'll gladly help you. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:53, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sikhs 

message: The title should be changed for several reasons:
1. The English word is normally and most commonly spelled "Nazarite". Just do a Google search. (I suspect that many of the existing spellings as "Nazirite" are because of this article, yet it is still a minority spelling.)
: a. Google search for only Nazarite: 246,000 results
: b. Google search for only Nazirite: 159,000 results
2. The Jewish Encyclopedia supports this spelling.
3. The Catholic Encyclopedia supports this spelling.
4. English Bible translations use this spelling, and since this is the English Wikipedia (not Hebrew), we follow the most common English spelling.
Please discuss for and against this proposal. What say ye? -- Brangifer (talk) 05:39, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title change: Nazirite --> Nazarite 

message: Anybody notice that the story cited in the section "Attitudes toward Nazirites":
Simeon the Just (a High Priest) was opposed to the nazirite vow and ate of the sacrifice offered by a nazirite on only a single occasion. Once a youth with flowing hair came to him and wished to have his head shorn. When asked his motive, the youth replied that he had seen his own face reflected in a spring and it had pleased him so that he feared lest his beauty might become an idol to him. He therefore wished to offer up his hair to God, and Simeon then partook of the sin-offering which he brought.Nazir 4b, Nedarim 9b, Yerushalmi Nedarim 35d; Tosefta Nazir 4; Yerushalmi Nazir 1:7
Is vaguely reminiscent of the story of Narcissus? Nzk10 (talk) 03:48, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attitudes toward Nazirites 

message: The article says "There are three types of nazarite" but in the very next sentence, it says "there are only two, and not three, types of nazirite". The article seems to disagree with itself? Grand Dizzy (talk) 17:52, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many types of Nazarite? 

message: I have removed an explicit name use, as this was based on a primary source and the vast majority of secondary sources (or bible translations for that matter - including the link used which has "the LORD" - ) do not use the explicit name. If you contest this - please demonstrate using secondary sources discussing this topic that this term is used.Icewhiz (talk) 07:34, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Explicit name of god