Talk:Delta wing

message: "The primary advantage of the delta wing design is that the wing's leading edge remains behind the shock wave generated by the nose of the aircraft when flying at supersonic speeds, which is an improvement on traditional wing designs."
Isn't this just a matter of the sweep rather than the delta planform? For example, the English Electric Lightning and MiG-19 have rather severe leading edge angles for this reason, even though they are not deltas.
-- Paul Richter 09:52, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Advantages

message: I don't know why Dr Alexander Lippisch is not mentioned in regards to the Delta wing: he had developed flyable swept wings in the 1930s and 1940s and proposed a surpersonic delta in 1940. In 1945 his DM-1 glider was shipped to the USA for study.  His P.13a represents perhaps the first proposal to develop a supersonic delta.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Frederick Munster (talk • contribs)
:You are right. The reference to Neythen Woolford is a furfy I believe. He is a kid on facebook and appears in no other published histories of Delta wings I have ever read. I'm suspect someone has vandalised the entry and sustituted their own name to achieve notoriety. It is demonstrable that Lippisch was the pioneer of Delta wings in Germany prewar and postwar GregOrca (talk)
:The article is pretty disorganized.  It should talks about Adolf Busemann theory, and the work of Alexander Lippisch and the theory of Robert Thomas Jones. The value of Lippisch and the Germans was not the DM-1, which is often misunderstood, it was just a plywood glider that was never flown and only tested to 45 mph in Langley's wind tunnels.  Folks see the photos of the DM-1 and jump to conclusions.  What was important about the German work was the supersonic wind tunnel studies on swept wings and delta wings, which was found by Von Karman.  This article completely fails to discuss the history of the topic very well. DonPMitchell (talk) 23:54, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Alexander Lippisch

message: The explanation of the canard in the 3rd paragraph is a bit confusing. I've cleaned up the language a bit, but the point is still unclear. Attributing designs incorporating canards to unstable platforms and FBW doesn't seem accurate. The F-117 and F-16 are inherently unstable and neither have canards. FBW and instability (due to more radical, effective designs) do exist symbiotically these days, but that is independent of canard use. While the EF-2000, Rafale, etc. are more advanced designs and use canards, that has more to do with the increased effectiveness of delta-wing aircraft with canards, not necessarily instability or FBW.--Jonashart 20:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That 3rd paragraph reads much better now. Sorry, took a while to get back to reading it. Nicely done, whomever is responsible.--Jonashart 15:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  We're still missing something on canard trim.  Canards are trimmed to increase lift while conventional tails are trimmed to reduce overall lift.  I'm still looking for the best ref for this.  Any suggestions? Hcobb (talk) 01:23, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Carnard

message: The article seems to alternate between historical ordering and description.
Perhaps the better structure would be:
#history
##before WWII
##later development
##current status
#discussion
##advantages
##disadvantages
#list of types
m.e. 05:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganise? 

message: Claims that Kazimierz Siemienowicz had pioneered delta wings had been rejected  before, but were re-introduced once again , giving e.g. a NASA source that says .... proposed ... delta-shaped stabilizers to replace the guiding rods.... These stabilizers are simple fins, as on an arrow, not large lift-creating wings for a supersonic airplane. The sources do not back up the claim "Conception of this wing and its name" and the addition to :Category:Polish inventions. -- Matthead  Discuß   11:09, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If that is the case, be WP:Bold and remove the claims. --TraceyR (talk) 13:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:   suggested in the 17th century by Polish inventor? 

message: I have read everything I could find on Conrad Haas and nowhere does it say he investigated or experimented with wings of any kind.  All the documents ever talk about is triangular fins.  I'm sure someone is going to tell me wings and fins are one and the same.  They're not.  All fins do is line up into the wind behind the center of gravity.  The whole purpose and function of a wing is different.  Wings support the weight of the air vehicle to which they are attached, and they do it specifically by not lining up into the wind but by assuming a non-zero angle across the wind vector so as to deflect air downward, lift being the "equal and opposite reaction" to the downward deflection of the air.  So what the heck does Conrad Haas have to do with the invention of the delta wing? You don't need to know anything about flight trim to make a fin work, but if you don't know flight trim, you don't know the aerodynamics of winged flight.  Sorry Conrad, but you did not invent the delta wing. Maybe it was the butterfly that just landed on your shoulder.Magneticlifeform (talk) 01:23, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is a dud and will remain so as long as Conrad Haas and other content of contrived relevance is perpetuated. Too bad so many articles have to go through this stage. It certainly slows things down.Magneticlifeform (talk) 04:54, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved those to sub-section and changed "wings" to "stabilizers" for clarity. --Kubanczyk (talk) 01:30, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Conrad who?

message: Found some very good and concise, seemingly very legit info on deltas (and other wings) here: http://aerostudents.com/files/advancedAircraftDesign/AdvancedAircraftDesign2Summary.pdf . Can someone tell me if this is okay for a reference? Seems legit to me, and very balanced and fair, factual. .45Colt 01:41, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some good info. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The US also used an ogival design for the Space Shuttle, which was flown in to land as an aircraft.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.129.127 (talk) 09:29, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The Shuttle is normally classified as a double delta, due to the long straight sections between tightly curved corners. But this is not the List of delta-wing aircraft, so most examples are not discussed here. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:21, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Space Shuttle 

message: I'm a bit surprised that we don't have any photos of aircraft from two manufacturers known for producing delta-wing aircraft, Convair and Dassault. Both produced several types, both fighters and bombers. I've looked around for good shots of some of their aircraft that show the deltas to good effect, but Commons isn't very user friendly for that type of search, so I didn't find any I liked. Hopefully someone else with some extra time can find a couple of good ones. I have in mind one photo of a fighter, and one of a bomber, hopefully one from each manufacturer. - BilCat (talk) 16:31, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I've had a go. better but not perfect. I'll try and find a Hustler in place of the F-106 if I get a minute. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 09:38, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos 

message: My understanding is that the Convair XF-92 is the first jet delta to actually fly, so how is it that it isn't deemed significant enough to even be mentioned on this page? Not even a "See Also" link. The gist of this page seemed to be that Germans invented delta wings, the French and British and Swedes quickly copied them, producing test deltas by the late 40s and production ones by the mid 50s, while at some undefined point the Americans came up with the F-102 and F-106 and B-58. "History of the delta wing" mentions German work, French work, it mentions the Avro 707 and the Vulcan, but nothing at all about the first delta to actually fly. Seems like it merits a least a footnote or something.
64.222.126.103 (talk) 19:13, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for pointing that out. I have added a note on the XF-82, but claims that it was the first ever jet delta would need citing from a reliable source. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 19:23, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  XF-92 

message: i think it would be nice to include his design, feels more coherent than earlier proposals, it actually includes a chassis and uses a canard and delta configuration
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:1.909.-_Planos_del_Aeroplano-Monoplano_Causar%C3%A1s.jpg
You could say it's an evolution of the  J.W. Butler and E. Edwards designs but their dual delta platform is quite not the same, if not almost the opposite.
https://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/butler.html
A 3D model is seen here:
https://causaras.blogspot.com/2014/?m=1 Mirad1000 (talk) 16:59, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for coming here. This shows the danger of imagining that one's own language's literature tells all that there is to know. This Spanish patent is new to me. It is reminiscent of Roy Scroggs' US patent of 1917, which he developed into the unsuccessful The Last Laugh, but this was eight years before him and contemporary with Dunne's UK patent on the conical delta. Yes, I can see that one of my kids or nieces is going to have to translate some Spanish for me! I must check if there is a copy on Espacenet. Meanwhile, maybe somebody else here can add a mention to the historical summary. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 18:45, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

text: [Update] I cannot find it on Espacenet. There are various claims on the Internet, but it is hard to verify anything from a reliable source. We may have to give this one a miss, for now at least. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 19:39, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

text: [Update] Aha! Patent No. 46026, http://centenariaviacio.catedradr.com/site/upload/ficheros/d-04b.pdf It is handwritten not typed. I am not familiar with the Spanish system, but it appears to be a patent *application*. If it is like the UK system, then he may not have fully registered his patent, which might explain why it is not in the EU repository. Still, it's a start. Anybody good at reading Spanish handwriting? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 01:32, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish patent of 1909, "Causarás Monoplane"