Talk:Lady Byron

message: ===The "cleanup" tag===
The article needs to be partitioned and indexed, to make it easier to digest. --Benn M. 19:21, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It also needs all the Annabella familiarity cleaned out. Septentrionalis 00:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Note to those wondering why there is a big fat honking "cleanup" tag dirtying up the article: Benn M. doesn't like the way it's particitoned. - Nunh-huh 21:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Note to those wondering why there is a big fat honking "neutrality" tag on the article: Septentrionalis thinks the article is one-sided in attributing the "fault" (for something unspecified) to Lord Byron. - Nunh-huh 21:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For the breakup of the marriage, and most of the rest of the lives of the two participants. Telling all three narratives is on my to-do list, but someone who has read, rather than skimmed, the literature will do it faster, easier, and more reliably. Septentrionalis 21:23, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Note to those who think the article should be "fixed", in distinction to those who merely want to decorate it: please add further comments on how you think the problems can be remedied here on the talk page. - Nunh-huh 21:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: TAGS 

message: The article needs to be partitioned and indexed, to make it easier to digest. --Benn M. 19:21, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It also needs all the Annabella familiarity cleaned out. Septentrionalis 00:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Note to those wondering why there is a big fat honking "cleanup" tag dirtying up the article: Benn M. doesn't like the way it's particitoned. - Nunh-huh 21:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The "cleanup" tag

message: This is one story of what happened; there are at least two other versions, which should be mentioned from time to time. Septentrionalis 04:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Note to those wondering why there is a big fat honking "neutrality" tag on the article: Septentrionalis thinks the article is one-sided in attributing the "fault" (for something unspecified) to Lord Byron. - Nunh-huh 21:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For the breakup of the marriage, and most of the rest of the lives of the two participants. Telling all three narratives is on my to-do list, but someone who has read, rather than skimmed, the literature will do it faster, easier, and more reliably. Septentrionalis 21:23, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Note to those who think the article should be "fixed", in distinction to those who merely want to decorate it: please add further comments on how you think the problems can be remedied here on the talk page. - Nunh-huh 21:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The "neutrality" tag

message: Lady Byron's name is a difficult subject, but the following is all attested,
*When her mother died, Byron and his wife both took the surname of Noel only. (Complete Peerage, II, p.457 Byron of Rochdale, XII, ii, p.512 Wentworth.)
**They both, of course, retained the title Byron.
*The ODNB lists her under Anne Isabella Noel  
**Leslie Stephen DNB VIII, p. 140. calls her Anne Isabella Milbanke (This is the article on the poet, of course. 
** Cokayne, equally of course, also uses Anne Isabella.  
*Her mother wrote a letter to the Prince Regent, proposing that "Sir Ralph and Lady Noel be enabled to called their insulted  and injured daughter by another title than that of Byron, viz. by the title of Wentworth, Lady Noel waiving her claim." (E. C. Mayne: Life of Lady Byron (London, 1929) p. 280) 
**Nothing came of this (It was found in the Lovelace papers, so it may not have been sent), and she declined to use Lady Wentworth when she inherited. (loc cit..)
** Miss Caroenter's school set up an  inscription calls her "Anne Isabella Noel, Dowager Lady Byron." (op.cit. p.297) 
**Her funeral inscription calls her "Ann Isabella Noel Byron" [sic, no mark of title]. (Pierson: The Real Lady Byron p.310)
**Pierson also notes several letters (and her mother's gravestone) which use A.I. Noel Byron. 
*She was also nicknamed Nancy; Byron called her Bell.
In short, the present position of this article is calling its subject by
*her nickname
*a surname she abandoned
*a title she did not use
**The last two of which she was never entitled to use together. 
 
The present text is also in error: Byron changed his surname to Noel;  when Byron signed himself "Noel Byron" (not Noel-Byron) that was his then surname plus his title. 
*Now fixed. Septentrionalis 23:41, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid I still don't buy this. I've never seen any other example in history of a peer signing "Surname Title". "Noel Byron" with the meaning you suggest would be the equivalent of "Cavendish Devonshire" or "Gascoyne-Cecil Salisbury", and would be immensely odd. Proteus (Talk) 22:34, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: Where are the citations? "amassed considerable gambling debt" for instance. This section seems to be all conjecture and isn't neutral at all.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Echoica (talk • contribs) 06:34, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daughter 

message: " ...when Lady Byron made clear her suspicions that Byron's relationship with his half-sister Augusta was incestuous, which was not then illegal, and that he had had homosexual relationships and had sodomised her - Lady Byron - which acts were, he changed his mind."
This is really obtuse.  Is this really meant to imply that "Lady Byron" was "suspicious" that she herself had been sodomized?  That she was unsure and only suspected that she had been sodomized?  Because that's what it is saying, and it would be a rather unusual thing to be merely "suspicious" of ("I'm not totally sure, but I suspect I've been sodomized!")  Is the last "her" (the one who was sodomized) actually supposed to be referring to A) Augusta rather than Lady Byron, or B) was Lady Byron actually uncertain as to whether she'd personally been sodomized?  As in, drugged unconscious and sodomized?
Not only that, but the entire sentence structure is fairly torturous and obfuscatory; I think it would be much better to read either: 
A) " ...when Lady Byron made it clear to Byron that she suspected he was having an incestuous affair with, and had sodomized, his half-sister Augusta, and that he had also been in homosexual relationships, he changed his mind.  The incestuous relationship was not illegal at the time, but sodomy and homosexual relationships were."
Or B) " ...when Lady Byron made it clear to Byron that she suspected he had sodomized her against her knowledge, that he was having an incestuous affair with his half-sister Augusta, and that he had also been in homosexual relationships, he changed his mind.  The incestuous relationship was not illegal at the time, but sodomy and homosexual relationships were."
Depending on which meaning was intended (and also possibly using sodomised as opposed to sodomized, whichever spelling is standard for Wikipedia.)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by RyokoMocha (talk • contribs) 03:34, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I wish I'd checked the page for this subject before I started looking at it myself. The sentence  by  (Talk) on 10 April 2012. Maybe he could straighten it out, and I'm pinging him, but  he hasn't contributed in two years and I'm not very hopeful that he'll see it. Please  me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 04:32, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear Line 

message: "intercepted the letter, as she feared Byron would commit suicide if he knew of it."  Now how could she know the letter would contain things that would impel Byron to suicide? She had to read it to know that, and she couldn't read it until after she intercepted it.  Why did she intercept the letter, really? 
108.18.136.147 (talk) 19:46, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  makes no sense 

message: This section is confusing:
"Prior to her death, she shared the story of her marriage to Byron with Harriet Beecher Stowe, who encouraged her to remain silent. After George's death, Stowe published the account in 1869. It was the first time anyone had published suspicions of an incestuous relationship between Byron and his half-sister."
George Byron died in 1824. Lady Byron died in 1860. It is unclear why Harriet Beecher Stowe waited until 1869 to publish her account, but she definitely wasn't waiting for Lord or Lady Byron to die. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jibralta (talk • contribs) 17:05, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair comment, , I have edited this to say simply some years later. Moonraker (talk) 17:18, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do you mean "After LADY BYRON's death" (not GEORGE)? 

message: The article states that Lady Byron was a mathematician, an ocupation which was quite unusal for a woman at the time, and therefore highly interesting IMHO. Unfortunately, the article does not report any of her works, but focuses almost exclusivly on her private life and there mainly on her relationship with her husband.
So can anybody contribute information regarding her work as a mathematician, or will she remain being known as "Lord Byron's Wife"? 2A01:C23:5CD2:0:6073:E0F0:D437:2953 (talk) 00:01, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I also wonder what justifies calling her a mathematician.  Doing well studying mathematics with a tutor (or in school) does not make a person a mathematician.  Some supporting evidence is needed.  Zaslav (talk) 04:14, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mathematician? 

message: I might be unaware of some fine point of 19th-century English law, but "separation" is usually something else than "divorce". The passage "Soon after the dissolution of his marriage (...)", however, seems to suggest that Byron's separation somehow amounted to a divorce. 89.64.70.36 (talk) 22:05, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separation