Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive 12

message: Few people, including me, support Hitler, but this page has a major anti-Hitler bias. Someone needs to rewrite it as slightly more NPOV. -- Nintendorulez 21:03, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone? Since you seem so insightful, why dont you do it? --Ezeu 21:17, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Less sarcastically, if there are specific things that you can point out, if added or changed, would render the article more neutral, please do so. Remember, of course, that Hitler was a monster, and calling a spade a spade is neutral.--chris.lawson 21:25, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is to say, he used his positive qualities to essentially bilk a highly advanced country into the industrial slaughter of 6-12 million, then leave that country in ruins and partitioned for half a century. It's hard to read any reasonably neutral account of that and come away with a sympathetic attitude.
Could you please list here some of the specific points you think could be more NPoV? Wyss 21:23, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Please don't edit Wikipedia to make a point. Wyss 17:45, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: I've removed him from the "German Chancellor" category until the categories name is changed to "Chancellor of Germany", calling him "German Chancellor" implies that he was German.
That's semantics, he was the German chancellor and besides that, a naturalized German citizen born within miles of the German border into a German-speaking, Austrian family. Wyss 01:09, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: German Chancellor

message: and during the final days of the war Hitler committed suicide in his underground bunker in Berlin together with his newly wed wife, Eva Braun, and other high-ranking Nazi officials.
What other high-ranking Nazi officials? As far as I'm aware there was only one - Josef Goebbels. Eva Braun certainly held no rank in the Nazi party and neither did Goebbels' family.
(Redzen 10:56, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Misinformation?

message: Hitlers first racial hatred may have been directed at Native Americans  
grazon 22:45, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  this needs to be added 

message: I think that describing Hitler as a cartoonish villain is inappropriate for a respected encyclopedia.
*Descrition of the pic with the girl is a pure POV - "Photographs like this one were used to promote Hitler's populist-nationalist (Völkish) image".
*We should not write about the genocides on the intro. (war crimes like the American bombings during Vietnam war or the atomic bombing of Japan are not mentioned in the US presidents intros on wiki. not to mention that the death toll is not appearing there...)  
*The text that was taken from Mein Kampf should be removed (Is it in the Public Domain?)
*The "six million myth" should also be removed. Even Yad Vashem admiting the fact that the real number is smaller (between 5.1 to 5.95 according to their website). 
--Haham hanuka 16:50, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV tag 

message: I've reverted Toya twice, and I don't want to be confrontational, so I'm making the second revert into a "move to talk page" rather than a simple revert.  I've reproduced the paragraph below, in italics. The bit I took out is also in bold.
:Adolf Hitler's father, Alois, was an angry man who inclined to violent angry outbursts, smoke a lot and a drinker who didn't liked the time in the house full of kids and preferred on tham his hobbies, beekeeping or drinking beer with his friends. Because of Alois Hitler's profession his family moved frequently, from Braunau to Passau, Lambach, Leonding and next to Linz. As a young child, Hitler was reportedly a good student at the various elementary schools he attended; however, in sixth grade (1900–1901), his first year of high school (Realschule) in Linz, he failed completely and had to repeat the grade. His teachers reported that he had "no desire to work."
If we decide to keep this addition, it will have to be changed into a more native-like English. However, even apart from that, I wonder how relevant it is, and also how NPOV it is. Any comments? Ann Heneghan (talk) 16:25, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is already covered, in encyclopedic terms, in Alois Hitler. Wyss 16:32, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agree. I was about to remove it myself, Ann. It's nearly completely POV and full of opinions. My vote would be for just keeping it as it is, what's in Alois Hitler is sufficient I think. chowells 16:38, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  My recent reversions 

message: The template at the top of the page containing Hitler's vitals and pic is too wide for 800x600 displays; could it please be tweaked. I changed the margin-right to margin-left. - RoyBoy 800 00:00, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template 

message: :Birth Name: Adolf Hitler 
:Birth Date: 04/20/1889 (April 20, 1889) 
:Birth Time: 18:30 (06:30 PM) LMT 
:Birth Place: Branau am Inn, Austria 
:Latitude / Longitude: 48 N 15 / 13 E 02 
:Rodden Rating / Source: AA / Quoted B.R. (birth record)
:Source Notes: Zenit 11/1933 quotes B.R. British Journal of Astrology same "from a gentleman acquainted with Hitler's sister-in-law," 7/1938 (The Editor of BJA, 4/1932, rectifies to 6:17 PM. Sabian Symbols No.462 gives 6:14 PM) In 6/1989, Claudia von Schierstedt confirmed the data to LMR, from research of archives. Austria at that time did not have the time of birth on the certificate but Heinz Noesselt, a co-worker at "Zenit," asked at the rectory, as the church did keep a notice of the birth and christening, and published the information in Zenit 11/1933, p. 431. "Hitler was born 20 April 1889 6½ in the evening, at Salzburger Vorstadt 219, Branau."
 
This site has software that is based upon the whole idea of accurate birthdays, birth-places, and ESPECIALLY precise birth-times -- they give birth-times different ratings based upon their validity, and Hitler's birth-time has a rating of AA, which means: "AA -- Accurate data as recorded by the family or state."  More info regarding the rating system can be found here.
I'm going to go ahead and reinsert "close to sunset" in the article, but if you all would like to get more specific we can just say "born at 6:30 PM LMT."  There are some rectifications that have been done, but they all hover "close to sunset."  152.163.100.5 01:08, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You still seem to be missing the point, my friend.  The accuracy or otherwise of the time of birth is relevant only to people such as astrologers who make use of such information.  Wikipedia is not a resource for the use of astrologers (which is not to say astrologers don't read it).  You can find Hitler's accurate birth time down to the second, but it's still not information that has any place in these pages.  Your options are: (a) include some information in the article that directly links Hitler's birth time with some important information about him, such as him basing some important decision (eg. to attack Russia) on his astrological chart, and provide references for that information; or (b) remove the birth time.  JackofOz 01:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Therefore you have just shot down your entire argument for including the precise birth data in the first place.  You can't on the one hand say that the data has now finally achieved relevance because it is accurate to the minute, but on the other hand say you only need to have some vague sentence about "close to sunset".  Take a stand, man/woman.  Argue your case.  And then accept defeat.  It's all about letting go of cherished desires to have some special bit of knowledge up there for all to see.  We've all had to accept the consensus view about our own special bits of knowledge.  Now it's your turn.  You'll be a better person for it, I promise you.  Thus endeth today's lesson.  JackofOz 01:36, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth Data 

message: I actually find this very interesting in its own way.  Many factual inaccuracies here and there, but written from the heart and far better than I could hope to write when I was a 'child'.  Perhaps we could put it somewhere else and add a link to it as 'another view', rather than just pompously dismissing it out of hand as worthless?.  At least it shows that there are young people around who still have an ear for the warnings from history.
In a very different league, obviously, but remember 'The Diary of Anne Frank' was also written by a child.  Wikipedia can be written by anybody.  ChrisRed 09:12, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "A Child's View of Hitler" 

message: What is going on here with all this vandalism to this page today??? XXX
Vandalism? There isn't any.  I just deleted a section (which I started myself) which turned out to be a load of old .........  I'll do it again tonight, as it has been totally discredited as no more than a myth, and adds nothing to the article.  It serves no purpose to leave it in when this page is already over-long. ChrisRed 15:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: "Hitler further strengthened his parliamentary basis by detaining Communist deputies and (illegally) excluding them from parliament."
Is this sentence true? Im afraid everything was legal and in harmony with the legislative process (incl. decrees). I dont think it was arbitrary.
Ksenon 14:37, 07 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Illegal?