Talk:Hamsa

message: For including the Hebrew form of Hamsa:
#The word appears in a Hebrew language dictionary, thus attesting to its being an integral part of Hebrew language and culture.
#The word doesn't appear in an English language dictionary.
#Its Hebrew form is pronounced differently than the Arabic and the English forms.
#Other articles, like Isaac, include Arabic and other languages even though the word is originally Hebrew.
#As Hamsa is prominent in two cultures only, Arabic and Jewish, both Arabic and Hebrew should be represented in the lead.
Against including the Hebrew form of Hamsa:
#Reliable secondary sources indicate the Hebrew form is from the Arabic and note nothing unique about it per se (See  Dictionary of Jewish usage: a guide to the use of Jewish terms, for example). 
#Irrelevant to this discussion, though relevant to the question of the article name and why it is not the most common name in English: Hand of Fatima.
#No reliable secondary source discusses a difference in pronunciation (leaving the notability and verifiability of this fact in question). 
#Other articles, like Falafel and Hummus, include only the Arabic from which the English is derived, and anyway otherstuffexists is not an argument.
#As the prominence of Hamsa among Jews is a result of its adoption by Arab Jews, who were culturally Arabic (like the Arab Christians who use it), the Arabic alone faithfully reflects the word's origins and its traditional usage.
#The word in Arabic for hamsa (khamsa) also means five and the five fingers of the hand. The Hebrew form does not hold the same multivalent meaning (the Hebrew word for five being hamesh). The terms are not equivalent in either meaning or importance, as reflected in the copious RS' discussing the Arabic form and meaning of the word, and the lack of sources discussing the Hebrew form and meaning of the word. 
Did I miss anything? Tiamuttalk 15:53, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see anything WP:POINTy in User:Tiamut's message. How does your comment contribute anything this discussion, Adamarce?—Biosketch (talk) 07:25, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: @, your presentation of the arguments seems about right to me, though I agree with you that some of the arguments ostensibly in favor of excluding the Hebrew aren't really relevant to this discussion. Falafel and Hummus, as has been said, are today accepted words in the English language. Hamsa, on the other hand, isn't. The extent to which Jews were culturally Arabic is a contentious topic, just as I imagine the extent to which Arabs in Israel are culturally Jewish is contentious for some people. Either way, the Jews that ascribe a significance to the hamsa today constitute a cultural group unto themselves, whereby the fact that the hamsa entered Hebrew from Arabic doesn't detract from its contemporary significance in Judaism and among Hebrew-speakers. Finally, this article is about the sense of hamsa denoting the apotropaic amulet, not the numeral 5. It's in reference to the amulet that each argument ought to be weighed. Besides, there are expressions in Hebrew slang that incorporate the word hamsa in manners that the article doesn't address yet, such as the expressions hamsa hamsa hamsa and hamsa aleicha, which don't necessarily refer to the amulet.—Biosketch (talk) 07:40, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you at least type my username right, or just say AA... My reply wan't for Tiamut, but toward you. Instead of insisting on a tiny point that you couldn't convince others with your opinion, just move on and work on something more constructive. That's what WP:POINT is! Hence, this discussion has NOTHING to do with Jews. Jews ain't Hebrew and Hebrews ain't Jews. This is about a term in Hebrew and a term in Arabic.    ~ AdvertAdam  talk 08:02, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to read WP:SHOUT. If you're not able to control your emotions, you shouldn't be editing here.—Biosketch (talk) 08:44, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Review of arguments

message: That link to "ahimsa" looks like it might be relevant, but has no context where it is, placed between two unrelated sentences on the potential provenance of the symbol.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.164.102.214 (talk) 08:06, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nonsequitur 

message: Sanskrit "ahimsa" (non-violent) derives directly from "himsa"=  "violence", and so relates directly to "hamsa"= "defense"= "goose or swan" (both animals have an avid and signature style of defending their broods). Hamsa Yoga seems to have been a proto-martial art employing the doubled hand- or hand-over-hand position to parry blows. Later forms of Yoga have usurped the Hamsa name but not necessarily its roots- although they may still incorporate the inverted hamsa symbol for its similarity to a swan in defensive pose, with wings raised; the doubled hand position (protect your face and/or genitals with both hands to get a sense of this) is still found in martial arts and yoga routines today; it is interesting to note as well that the doubled hand position in motion resembles the neck and head of an attacking swan. 
Also, and perhaps more relevantly, the word Hamsa is used in the Rg Veda for both "enlightened seeker" and "Supreme Being". While the word itself, like its Chinese equivelant "hong-sui", is likely an onomatopoeia for the sound of a swan's cry (honk!), there are further linguistic complexities involved: the Sanskrit phrase "aham-sa", commonly found in Yogic rituals (a pun?), translates as "I am he" which is clearly a good defensive atitude, along the lines of "love thy enemy". . .
It appears that there may have been a renaissance of Hamsa yoga and its philosophy in the Indian-influenced Middle East sometime in the later half of the first millennium C.E.; a development likely associated with the somewhat later commercial deployment of the concrete Hamsa symbol. The symbol has achieved a cultural longevity that the practice has not.
The Hamsa-Gita is a lesser, Monistic(?) Hindu religous text. The Wikipedia entry on it informs us: "The Hamsa (हंस, in Sanskrit and often written hansa) is a swan or goose, often considered to be the Mute Swan (Cygnus olor), but is really the Bar-headed Goose (Anser indicus).[citation needed] It is used in Indian culture as a symbol and a decorative element." Shiva and other manifestation of the Supreme Deity are often depicted as riding a swan heavenward.
The use of the Hamsa as a ward against evil is a natural evolution; but the modern usage and understanding of it in Middle-Eastern cultures brings this image to mind: a cargo cult built around an object mysteriously washed up on present shores from the ocean of the past.Klasovsky (talk) 21:07, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Sequiting

message: There are currently five images in the article, three of them have Hebrew inscriptions on them. This is clearly unbalanced. Two of them should be removed. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 18:03, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Gilabrand, how can you say that the images are balanced when 3 out of 5 images have hebrew inscriptions on them? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 11:55, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unbalanced images 

message: For the benefit of the article's accuracy, I removed the phrase indicating that Hamsa was connected to the fifth letter of the Hebrew alphabet 'Heh' which is a reference to God's name.  It's just not correct.  In both Hebrew and Arabic, the word is spelled with a hard 'h.'  In Hebrew it begins with the eighth letter of the Hebrew alphabet 'chet.'  It would be neat if it was the fifth letter, but it's not.
Rabrick (talk) 05:02, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hamsa and the fifth letter of the Hebrew alphabet 

message: The article has been totally destroyed, and major information blocks have been removed, the last state that I can approve is the state after the Revision at 18:16, 25 September 2013 by user Mogism. Please clearify this asap, I will revert this if no one is willing to restore the lost information. kind regards, ERDINC (talk) 21:39, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article is totally destroyed! 

message: The article mentions thrice the phrase "Hand of Fatima" without explaining it. Is this a synonym for the Hamsa? Who is Fatima? AxelBoldt (talk) 18:27, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Explanation now included. Akhooha (talk) 18:51, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hand of Fatima? 

message: Now "Hamsa" is an Arab, Jewish, or Amazigh, deep article about its origin, is there an explanation?.--Sarah Canbel (talk) 14:52, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hamsa origin 

message: I am going to be making additions to the 'Symbolism and Usage' section of the article. I will be using the trustworthy source From Sacred Symbol to Key Ring: The Hamsa in Jewish and Israeli Societies 
I think this article could use some more specificity regarding the association Jews have made with the Hamsa and themes in the Bible, the shared values that the Hamsa has created between the Jews and Muslims, as well as the usage that the Hamsa brings to the daily lives of many people. If anyone would like to comment or weigh in their opinion, I would appreciate feedback on either this or my Talk page!  
--Rachel0520 (talk) 02:57, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additions to the Hamsa Article 

message: Hi everyone, although the Hamsa article is very informative, it is lacking in depth information on the Hamsa's Jewish origins. I plan on adding content from Shalom Sabar's article "From Sacred Symbol to Key Ring: The Hamsa in Jewish and Israeli Societies" in order to enhance the "History"section of this article. I plan on adding information on the Hamsa's Biblical origins and its history in the Byzantine period and in Medieval Europe. Not many corrections are necessary but I will be adding approximately 200 to 300 words from information attained through Shalom Sabar's article in the hopes of improving this Wikipedia article. Please comment if you have any suggestions or feedback! Lauren122097 (talk) 18:35, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additions to the Hamsa Article 

message: I find the Hamsa fascinating(did I spell that right?)... I'm wondering if anyone would tell me of other items that are used to ward off evil spirits, ones you can where on your wrist and aren't all "God, Lord, Jesus, Virgin Mary, David & Goliath"! I'm highly unlucky and I'm against Christianity. THOUGH I'M PERFECTLY FINE WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE CHRISTIAN AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TELL ME TO PRAY EVERY 5 MIN.!!! I think there are gods up there and demons below but we just don't know their names, abilities, what they control, or their gender...(SRY TMI IK[sorry, to much info, I know]!) Odin&Sleipnir (talk) 03:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fascinating...