Talk:Battle of Montijo

message: In Spain, I've studied this battle as a spanish victory. As you can see, portuguese forces didn't get anything, but a non-catastrophic defeat.--PayoMalayo 17:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  portuguese victory?

message: It's clear that the majority of the anglo-saxon sources attribute the victory to the Portuguese.See The Journal of military history by the Virginia Military Institute, the George C. Marshall Foundation and the American Military Institute to see that some sources give, nevertheless, the victory to Spain. It seems to me that any Spanish account of the battle had been studied by these historians, as many have done with such important battles as Rocroi. The 15,000 casualties claimed in the Gazette had been repeated ad nauseam dozens of times. The Spanish official Aviso of the Battle of Montijo, obviously, has not received the same treatment. And this article, of course, discard the sources that say the opposite of what the main editor means. But what is the problem of trying to hush up the Spanish version?... The answer is that Spanish relations are very full and leave no doubt about who won the battle. The Reencuentro del Montijo en Extremadura confirms that: 
*The Spanish army buried 3,070 Portuguese corpses after the battle.
*The Spanish army took 800 prisoners including the Auditor General Pedro Avelar de Sotomayor, the Teniente Maese de Campo General Bernaldin de Segueira, and Captains Jorge Mello, Dom Francisco de Almeda, Manuel de Saldaña, Dom Manuel Enriquez, Esteban de Britto Mascareñas, Dom Manuel de Meneses, Francisco Correa, Fernando Fereira, as well as the Dutch Maese de Campo Octavio Pique and the French Captain Count of Fiesco.
*The Spanish army harassed the retreating Portuguese to the frontier.
*The Spanish army lost 433 men killed: Maese de Campo José del Pulgar, three cavalry Captains vivos, three cavalry reformados, two Sargentos mayores reformados, 13 infantry Capitanes vivos, 10 infantry Captains, 8 alféreces and a sargento vivos, 16 alféreces and sargentos reformados, 276 soldiers from the Tercios, and 100 cavalrymen.
*The Spanish army took from the Portuguese many baggage including mules and oxen, gunpowder, bullets, bombs and grenades, a cannon adjustment, 4,000 weapons, Matias de Albuquerque's carriage, many waggons, and a catapult!
Draw your own conclusions. Or give me a more credible relation. ElBufon (talk) 07:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the most famous Portuguese report of the battle is also very full and descriptive, and doesn't have any doubts about the final outcome. The contemporary account of Ericeira describes the following:
*More than 3,000 Spanish were killed in the battle. These included, 4 Mestres de Campo, 9 Cavalry Captains, 45 Infantry Captains among many other officers.
*The Portuguese army lost about 900 hundred men, killed and captured. The men killed included, 2 Mestres de Campo: D.Nuno Mascarenhas and Aires de Saldanha, Cavalry Captain: João de Saldanha da Gama, Infantry Captain: Bartolomeu de Saldanha, Dutch Cavalry Captain: Rodrigo Starch, 2 Sergeants: Jerónimo Ferrete and Belchior do Crato, 8 Infantry Captains and other officers. The captured included, Mestre de Campo: Eustáquio Pique, Cavalry Captains: Fernão Pereira, Francisco Fiesco Genovez, Manuel de Saldanha, Jorge de Mello, Francisco de Almada and Diogo de Menezes, Infantry Captains: Nuno da Cunha and Francisco Correia da Silva.
*There is no mention of harassment by the Spanish army.
*There is mention of more than 4,500 weapons taken from the Spanish killed and from those who escaped the battle. XPTO (talk) 14:31, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: An extensive relation, and extremely different, undoubtedly. About the number of Spanish officers killed, Ericeira seems to have promoted all the dead alféreces to captains and killed three maeses de campo. The names of the dead Spanish captains are mentioned in the Reencuentro del Montijo en Extremadura, an were not 45. About the harassment, the account that I cite says that Torrecuso, in command of five cavalry units, harassed the Portuguese on their retreat to Campomaior, forcing them to abandon 30 waggons. Also is said that Torrecuso and Molinguen advanced to Talavera la Real after the battle, not fleeing across the Guadiana. ElBufon (talk) 16:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the result of the battle, the references used, and the POV... 

message: Changed the outcome to "Indecisive: Both sides claim victory" since a wide number of references (that I kept to support the outcome change) tell different tales.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prtgl93 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outcome