Talk:Pe̍h-ōe-jī

message: Please take a look at 
this version of Church Romanization artcl (now a redirect). Reusable? Where it was copyed from, I am wondering. The text refers to "Wikipedia". mikka (t) 05:56, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears to be from the corresponding article in the Chinese version of Wikipedia. --ian 17:40, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

text: No, it isn't, and I've removed that formatting. —Babelfisch 02:12, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment by [[user:mikkalai|mikka]]

message: Why not consider giving the corresponding IPA for each letter? With all that Pinyin, Wade-Giles and stuff out there, one does not have a clue about how consonants in Pe̍h-ōe-jī ought to be pronounced... orthographic symbols are useless unless they're assigned some phonemic/phonetic content! JREL (talk) 09:51, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA 

message: How would POJ be used to represent Hakka?  Which letters are modified to represent that language?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.20.5.222 (talk) 13:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POJ in Hakka? 

message: Can someone check the POJ in the lead of Wu Chuanyu? Badagnani (talk) 21:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POJ needs to be checked 

message: Need POJ reading at Sean Lien. Badagnani (talk) 06:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need POJ 

message: What language script/encoding do I need to download/set to display POJ correctly? --Mistakefinder (talk) 11:28, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undisplayable script 

message: I have just made a big edit to the article, replacing the old one (which had absolutely no inline references, only one end reference, and some dubious unsupported material) with a fully documented version, complete with a proper history, citations, bibliography and more. I welcome any further edits to improve the article - eventually I'd like to push this for Good Article and subsequently Featured Article status once it has been polished up a bit more.
Taiwantaffy (talk) 23:56, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Complete overhaul of this article

message: * Ang Ui-jin (1992) (in Chinese). Taiwan Fangyan zhi Lü (A Journey Through Taiwanese Regional Speech). Taipei: Avanguard Publishing. . 
* Babuja A. Sidaia (1998) (in Hàn-lô Taiwanese). A-Chhûn. Taipei: Taili. . 
* Band, Edward (1936). Barclay of Formosa. Christian Literature Society. 
* Baran, Dominika (2004). ""Taiwanese don't have written words": Language ideologies and language practice in a Taipei County high school". Conference Proceedings - 2004 International Conference on Taiwanese Romanization. 2. 
* Campbell, William (2006) [1913]. A Dictionary of the Amoy Vernacular. Tainan: PCT Press. . 
* Chang Yu-hong (2001). Principles of POJ or the Taiwanese Orthography: An Introduction to Its Sound-Symbol Correspondences and Related Issues. Taipei: Crane. . 
* Chiung, Wi-vun Taiffalo (2005). Language, Identity and Decolonization. Tainan: National Cheng Kung University. . 
* Chiung, Wi-vun Taiffalo (2007). Language, Literature and Reimagined Taiwanese Nation. Tainan: National Cheng Kung University. . 
* Chung Raung-fu (1996). The Segmental Phonology of Southern Min in Taiwan. Spoken Language Services. . 
* Copper, John F. (2007). A Historical Dictionary of Taiwan (Republic of China) (2nd ed.). Lanham, MD: Scarecrow Press. . 
* Douglas, Carstairs; Barclay, Thomas (1990) [1923]. Chinese-English Dictionary of the Vernacular or Spoken Language of Amoy. Taipei: Southern Materials Center. . 
* Embree, Bernard L.M. (1973). A Dictionary of Southern Min. 
* Heylen, Ann (2001). "Romanizing Taiwanese: Codification and Standardization of Dictionaries in Southern Min (1837–1923)". in Ku Weit Ying; De Ridder, Koen. Authentic Chinese Christianity, Preludes to Its Development: Nineteenth & Twentieth Centuries. Leuven: Leuven University Press. . 
* Iûⁿ Ún-giân (2009). Processing Techniques for Written Taiwanese – Tone Sandhi and POS Tagging (Doctoral dissertation). National Taiwan University. 
* Iûⁿ Ún-giân; Tiuⁿ Ha̍k-khiam (1999). "台灣福佬話非漢字拼音符號的回顧與分析 (Comparison and Analysis of non-Character Transcription Systems for Taiwanese Holo)" (in Chinese). Tainan: National Cheng Kung University. http://ws.twl.ncku.edu.tw/hak-chia/i/iunn-ungian/hui-hanji-phengim.htm. Retrieved 2009-12-17. 
* Kì Bō͘-hô (2008). 台語教會羅馬字講義 (Notes on Taiwanese Church Romanization). Tainan: PCT Press. . 
* Klöter, Henning (2002). "The History of Peh-oe-ji". 2002台灣羅馬字教學KAP研究國際學術研討會論文集 (Proceedings of the 2002 International Conference on Taiwanese Romanization Research). Taipei: Taiwanese Romanization Association. 
* Klöter, Henning (2005). Written Taiwanese. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz. . 
* Lin, Alvin (1999). "Writing Taiwanese: The Development of Modern Written Taiwanese". Sino-Platonic Papers (89). http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp089_taiwanese.pdf. 
* Maryknoll Fathers (1984). Taiwanese: Book 1. Taichung: Maryknoll. 
* Norman, Jerry (1998). Chinese. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. . 
* Ong Iok-tek (2002) (in Chinese). Taiwanyu Yanjiu Juan. Taipei: Avanguard Publishing. . 
* Ota, Katsuhiro J (2005). An investigation of written Taiwanese (Master's thesis). University of Hawai'i at Manoa. https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/10125/11520/2/uhm_ma_3246_r.pdf. 
* Ramsey, S. Robert (1987). The Chinese Language. Princeton: Princeton University Press. . 
* Tiuⁿ Ha̍k-khiam (2004). "白話字kap台語文的現代化 (Peh-oe-ji and the Modernization of Written Taiwanese)" (in Han-lo Taiwanese). Conference Proceedings - 2004 International Conference on Taiwanese Romanization. 1. 
* Tseng Rui-cheng (2009) (in Chinese). Taiwan Minnanyu Luomazi Pinyin Fang'an Shiyong Shouce (Practical Manual for the Taiwan Southern Min Romanization System). ROC Ministry of Education. . http://english.moe.gov.tw/public/Attachment/9851214271.pdf. 
* Wu Chang-neng (2007). The Taigi Literature Debates and Related Developments (1987–1996) (Master's thesis). Taipei: National Chengchi University. 
* Wu Guo-sheng; Chen Yi-hsin (2004). "客家語羅馬字文獻的版本研究 (Books Written in Hakka Romanization)" (in Chinese). Conference Proceedings - 2004 International Conference on Taiwanese Romanization. 2.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by GlitchCraft (talk • contribs) 00:06, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  alphabetically ordered references 

message: The first line of this article had a "citation needed" tag after the IPA. I removed it because 
#General references for the pronunciation, including IPA, of this system, exist further down the article
#Finding an explicit reference to the effect that "Pe̍h-ōe-jī = peʔ˩ ue˩ dzi˨" is probably impossible
If required I can add further POJ-IPA references, but I feel it's unnecessary here.
Taiwantaffy (talk) 01:22, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing "citation needed" tag from the opening line 

message: Aren't there syllables with no initial consonants in Pe̍h-ōe-jī /Minnan? Like say Iûⁿ Ún-giân in Bibliography. And I guess many other. --Koryakov Yuri (talk) 18:35, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there are. – Kaihsu (talk) 14:13, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  syllables with no initial consonants? 

message: I used to listen to some Taiwanese songs, and I've caught the pronunciation of words that are supposedly pronounced with the POJ "J" initial to be pronounced as "l". (The initial from 日, pronounced as "r" in Mandarin, is usually expected to become the "j" initial in Hokkien.) This phenomenon was then confirmed through the audio files on Iun Un-gian's site. Furthermore, I've heard the "l" initial pronounced as a "d" sound, as in a voiced alveolar plosive. I understand that this was the actual older pronunciation of some words that begin with l. (Note that Archaic/Middle Chinese nasal initials turned to stops for the most part: m -> b, n -> d, ng -> g; with the d becoming l later on. This is noted in the Philippine Hokkien pronunciation of you "li" as "di", compare Mandarin "ni".) However, words such as 羅, in the audio file, had a distinctive plosive quality to it, which was unusual since it has a MC initial of l (來母). Is this some allophony, or is this some vernacular? I see the table of IPA has a "d" for the initial l, but this is not reflected in the phonology section of Taiwanese Hokkien.
Hmanck (talk) 15:26, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of POJ "L" and POJ "J" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There are local dialects that are not non-Mandarin. --2.245.168.36 (talk) 21:56, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missuse of i.e. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: The article contains the phrase:
"the nucleus vowel is the only required part of a licit consonant in Chinese varieties."
with a reference to a source. Since I cannot consult the source but seriously doubt that "consonant" is the intended word here (I am not aware that a vowel can be part of a consonant), I wonder if anyone can confirm that the word "syllable" is intended, or is the correct word.Redav (talk) 16:17, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this is a mistake. Freelance Intellectual (talk) 20:06, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consonant or syllable?