Talk:Hayley Westenra/Archive 1

message: I have seen evidence to support each side of this argument. The Govement of NZ spells it Clark but many NZ web pages spell it Clarke like hayleywestenra.com. Since this is a page about hayley shouldn't we spell the prime minister's name like she does(or at least how her website spells it)? Andrew D White 02:57, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
No, the PM's name is Clark and we should use the correct spelling throughout. Lisiate 22:50, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Just a poll over how we should spell NZ's Prime Minister's name. Clark or Clarke?

message: Can someone please add the source, regarding the Unicef song in duet with Morten Harket of a-ha and Hayley Westenra. Here it is:  http://www.unicef.org/girlseducation/denmark_25858.html
( I don't know how you add the sources )
==== Answer ====
For your future references it is done this way:
UNICEF Offical Web Site http://www.unicef.org/girlseducation/denmark_25858.html
the <ref> tag is required and name is the name in which you will refer to it later in the document so that it doesn't create a new entry every time for the same source. The rest of it is what your source is. Andrew D White 06:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding source 

message: For your future references it is done this way:
UNICEF Offical Web Site http://www.unicef.org/girlseducation/denmark_25858.html
the <ref> tag is required and name is the name in which you will refer to it later in the document so that it doesn't create a new entry every time for the same source. The rest of it is what your source is. Andrew D White 06:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Answer 

message: I have removed something an anomious user added since it wasn't sourcecd. If you can provided a good source you can add it back in. All I could find to support this were fourms which are not reliable to say in the least. 
In 2007 her songs "Prayer" and her rendition of the Maori folk song "Pokarekare Ana" were featured in the Nintendo Wii video game Endless Ocean (Known as Forever Blue in Japan and Europe)
Andrew D White 17:16, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You didn't look very hard obviously. It's common sense and the song "Prayer" is even featured in the trailer for the game. I added a source. 71.210.138.237 06:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am only following Wikipedia Policy for living people. It must be sourced to add to the article. Also just so you know, you might have wanted to look at the post date of that article before you accused me of not looking. That article was pasted several days after I removed the comment from the page. (08/09/2007 posting of article compaired to 4 August 2007 when I removed it to here.) Andrew D White 02:29, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:CITE for details on citing to see why I removed until it was sourced. Andrew D White 02:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed unsourced material

message: She is sometimes referred to as a "young female Josh Groban".
The autumn saw several more solo concerts, mainly in the UK, and a UK Christmas tour called "Christmas Presence" is to follow in December. 
In addition to her musical talent, Westenra has become noted for her kind and good nature.  She frequently meets her fans after performances and is usually very good about signing autographs and conversing.  In fact the title "diva" simply makes her break out into gales of laughter.
(this is kinda back in I found a source that said something simular see the newer version of the article. Andrew D White 01:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed Material

message: * Her first albulm, spelling mistake
* who has released two successful albums, succesful is NPOV, remove it
* She became an international star at the age of 16., sixteen, when mentioning age write it out don't put a number
* References go after full-stops and commas, with no space
* UK Pop Chart, surely theres a wikilink for that but its named different
* which was aired on NBC on December 18, remove 'was'
* Official Website with some streaming samples and other features, just put Official website
* Noteable Tours and Concerts, merge this section into the body, when you talk about 2004, mention the 'Pure' tour.
* plans are in place for the release of a third international solo album in March 2007, put that in the body where you speak about 2007
* 5th of September 2006, should be September 5, 2006
* On 20 February, should be February 20
* in the lead this section is choppy, 'She became an international star at the age of 16. Hayley is the fastest-selling debut classical artist to date[2]. She is also a philanthropist and donates much of her time and money to charities, such as UNICEF.' it switches subject each sentence with no flow
* Images need fair use rationale
* Westenra was virtually unknown worldwide until she landed a contract with, remove virtually
The article needs a good copy-edit. Feel free to re-nominate once these issues have been addressed. M3tal H3ad 06:43, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please check Wikipedia:manual of style dates 
* As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), dates shouldn't use th; for example, instead of using January 30th was a great day, use January 30 was a great day. M3tal H3ad 01:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think I have found all dates in this format and fixed them to be within the manual of style. If I have missed any feel free to fix them Andrew D White 01:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

text:  I have done a bit of a copy-edit as suggested. At this point the article makes sense to me as I read it. I have hopefully made the lead flow better. Andrew D White 05:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Fail

message: I just realised that they wrote The Mummer's Dance instead of The Mummers' Dance. I wonder who's to blame - Decca or Hayley? --77.105.45.127 00:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Clearly the correct spelling would be Mummer's because Mummers' implies that the dance belongs to someone who's named Mummers, although even that would require an 's' to be added after the apostrophe.  Dionyseus 01:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, Mummers' would be acceptable, if it is talking about multiple Mummers.  Modern use of the apostrophe means that when used on a word that ends in "s", a trailing "s" is not required.  However, I'm going to possibly sound stupid and ask where this term is found, since it does not appear as a track that I see on Celtic Treasure, or even in the article... -- Huntster T • @ • C 04:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For you information, this track is on some editions of the cd. I have seen extra tracks on the versions of the CD in stores like walmart. This track can also be found on the UK version of the CD. Andrew D White 04:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mummer's dance is acceptable in the same way that Reader's Digest is acceptable. I was a member of a Webwriters' group and we had a very long discussion about whether to call it "Webwriter's Network" or "Webwriters' Network". At first blush it must be plural, but it's not that simple. You can think of it as network for the webwriter, or as a network for webwriters. This is a dance for the Mummer, so it's the Mummer's dance, although Mummers' would be equally correct. And it seems, whether for better or worse, modern usage is dropping the distinction between plural and singular with genitives. A google shows both have been used with just about equal frequency. Stunz 08:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You do realize that the track is a cover and should be written as the original artist named the song in the first place. --79.175.103.156 (talk) 19:57, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misltitled track on Celtic Treasure 

message: I just went to www.CelticWoman.com. Ms. Westenra is not listed on the front page, nor is she listed in the history of the band.  The biography of the band describes it currently as four vocalists and one fiddler.  It appears to have been updated recently, since it mentions the most recent recording.  Further, the news section(http://www.celticwoman.com/viewSection.asp?idSection=217) describes Hayley Westenra as joining the North American tour, not as joining the group. It appears that Hayley and Meav are alternating due to Meav's new baby.  
I suspect Ms. Westenra's position is kind of in the middle. On the other hand, she is listed as one of the "Artists".  It also lists her as having "Joined the Celtic Woman project".  My best guess is that Ms. Westenra has too large of an individual career to join Celtic Woman, and is more like a guest artist.  I don't have any particular strong feelings one way or another, but Ms. Westenra does not technically appear to be part of the group itself.  If you wish to revert it back, I have no objections.Sentineneve 07:20, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to have to revert, because making that assumption (that because she isn't on the official site means she isn't part of the group) is original research.  While the news statement is vague at best, it doesn't state for certain her status with the group, only that she recorded with them for the album and that she was asked to tour. For now, I'd say let the article reflect this uncertainty and remain with the edit that Andrew made. Actually, read this news item, which clearly states that Westenra "became a “Celtic Woman”" and that the other girls were "thrilled that Hayley has agreed to join Celtic Woman".  I believe this should remove all doubts.  I'd chalk the website thing up to them simply putting more energy into touring than updating the main page...at least we have updated news items.  It was also stated in a news item that the reason for Méav and Hayley alternating was that the group was always envisioned as a five-person group, so the alternating fit with both girls' desires to (Méav) be at home with child and (Hayley) work on their personal material. -- Huntster T • @ • C 07:42, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have some difficulty here because I am intending to do a biography of Westenra myself for a Web site and don't want Wikipedia to sound too much like me in case it's thought I just stole it from Wikipedia. 
But an encylopedia should state facts, not undefinables. Argument about whether Westenra is or is not a member of Celtic woman rages on YouTube and is futile there as it is here because no one tries to define what a member of Celtic Woman is. The facts are simple. Westenra turned up at the Slade Castle recording made by Celtic Woman and was welcomed by the other girls as their "new member". There was also a biography of her on the Celtic Woman site as a member, although she wasn't added to the front page. I admit I was near astonished that she had "joined" the group, but started to understand when it came out that she was going to alternate with Meave, who wanted time off to be with her child, on Celtic Woman's US Tour. At this stage I was telling people that I thought that this was an arrangement of convenience that worked because Westenra's US tour coincided with Celtic Woman's, but that I couldn't see the arrangement lasting. Recently Westenra has mentioned on a fansite that bochures in England saying that she was going to be a part of Celtic Woman's English tour where a "mistake" because of some "mix-up". Whether any arrangement they had has fallen through altogether, or whether Westenra will occasionally appear with them remains to be seen. From reviews I've seen, it's not clear that Westenra did fill in for Meave on the US tour, and Celtic Woman got some poor reviews towards the end of the tour. It is possible that Westenra's managers feel there is no longer anything to be gained by her being associated with Celtic Woman. 
The promotional advantages of their being associated in the first place are obvious. Stunz 09:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Looks like good edits, thanks for making the fixes. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 01:14, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: RE: Hayley Westenra and Celtic Woman

message: Your current version makes no sense:
Until reciently it was uncontested that Hayley was vegetarian/pescotarian, and even is currently nominated for PETA's 'Sexiest Vegetarian' for 2007. [28][29][30] [31] However recently, the New Zealand Herald, has reported that she used to be a pesco-vegetarian but is not anymore for the sake of practicality. Hayley told them in an interview with one of their correspondents, "I'm completely bursting the bubble now, aren't I? That's that ruined. Ha." [32]
Firstly you spelt recently wrong and it makes no sense at all.--Migospia†♥ 00:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So how exactly doesn't it make any sence? (if you cannot tell, I really have no clue at all what you do not get of my wording) Andrew D White 00:40, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I hope that is better. I tried to cover more of what was in the article. I also reworded it a bit. Andrew D White 01:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text:  After a few hours more work, I think that it is more sensible. Andrew D White 03:23, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree with your edit it seems to be quite fair to me. Andrew D White 13:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that wording could work. Before it is changed, I feel we better get a few more people to agree to the wording since it seems to be a bit of a touchy subject. Although discuessing any lifestyle choice seems to be rather taboo nowadays. Andrew D White 01:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarity

message: Thank you for the work you've done on the article so far. The article is well referenced and moderately comprehensive, but I've placed the GAC review on hold as it currently fails the "well written" criteria. I suggest approaching members of the League of Copyeditors to help improve the prose. These are some examples of what needs fixing:
*The lead should mention in which year Pure reached #1 on the UK 
*"Miss Westenra has received awards for her contribution to the music of New Zealand and elsewhere in the world." - the "New Zealand and elsewhere in the world" is a bit messy. 
*"Westenra is the fastest-selling debut classical artist to date." - the album was a "debut", not her
*"Westenra joined the Irish group Celtic Woman and is currently touring with them." - using the terms "currently" and "to date" are meaningless as the reader won't know when they were written. Instead, say something like "and is touring with them, as of August 2007"
*"Her musical career began at the age of six" - I think the word "career" only applies to paid-work
*"She went to school at Cobham Intermediate." - this sentence is too short and out of place
*"encouraged Westenra to pick up a musical instrument" - "pick up" is too informal for an encyclopedia
*"a demo album done for friends and family; only about 1000 copies were made" - "done" is too informal. Does she have 1000 friends and family members?
*"Westenra and her sister, Sophie, busked in the Christchurch streets" - why did she busk? For fun, money, practice?
*"journalist with CTV" - say Canterbury Television instead of CTV, to save readers having to click the link
*"she had been offered a recording deal before she even meet with Universal New Zealand" - "has been"→"was", "meet"→"met". Who are Universal New Zealand? Are they the earlier mentioned concert promotion company?
*"producer of her live tv special" - "TV"
*"In November 2004, Westenra performed in a concert for Her Majesty The Queen, Prime Minister Tony Blair, Prince Charles, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and President George W. Bush." - a little more detail is needed about the concert, considering the people present. Where was it and what was it in aid of?
*"until she landed a contract" - too informal
*"she was featured on the motion picture soundtrack for The New World" - in what year was this?
*"Ending 2005, she made an appearance" - there's no such time as "ending 2005"
*"Westenra visited Ghana to publicize her latest project" - what was her latest project?
Let me know when you want me to review the article again. Epbr123 20:07, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GAC review

message: In the section Beyond her initial success there is a paragraph "She starred as Maria in the 2007 recording of West Side Story. The album of the 2007 West Side Story recording will be released on 30 July.[27] On 28 July, she will star in Woburn LIVE 2007, where she will preform a selection of the music of West Side Story with the other recording artists from the 2007 release.[30]"
This is clearly in the future tense but these things ought to have happened by now.
This is my only remaining copy-editing concern. Cricketgirl 06:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit 

message: I was looking at some of her pictures in her autobiography, and I was thinging that one of them might be nice to have on the page. The picture of her preforming the littlest star. My only thought is that adding that may add too many copyrighted pictures on the page. Anyone have any thoughts? Andrew D White (talk) 16:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Looking at pictures from her autobiography

message: I'm not sure where to add information about "appearances" in computer games in this template, but it might be relevant to have this article link back to Endless_Ocean, the soundtrack of which is provided by this artist. Additional reference: http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/HibwEvcAuiAvMKvZZulIaP_CPGfFjLel#features
Dave Brown (talk) 03:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps I misunderstand what you are asking for, but this material is presented in Hayley Westenra#Beyond her initial success.  This is about all that needs to be covered on this topic. — Huntster (talk • email • contribs) 08:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Music featured in computer game Endless Ocean

message: Regarding this newly added paragraph:
:"During numerous newspaper, magazine, and television interviews, Westenra repeatedly credits her parents for providing her with encouragement to develop her talents as well as the freedom to expand her horizons. She also profusely expresses her love of her family, and pride in her religion, her country, and its citizens who have supported her career. She does not smoke or use drugs, does not engage in promiscuous behavior, has healthy eating habits, supports protection of the environment, and recognizes her responsibility to advocate on behalf of disadvantaged children around the world."
Ms Westenra is an excellent singer and an amazing person.  However, in the context of an encyclopedia, IMO this paragraph goes too far in lauding her.  Perhaps it might be part of a Nobel Prize presentation speech if she were being given one, though even there it might be considered over the top.
Wanderer57 (talk) 13:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, yes, this has been removed. Aside from being unsourced, it is exactly as you say: over the top. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 18:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wow! 

message: Jemaine Clement, Bret McKenzie and Peter Henderson are rated Top Importance, and I have never heard of them (not that that means anything). Hayley is well known internationally. She is also a UN ambassador. Surely she rates High, if the others are Top. Please discuss. Thanks. Wallie (talk) 20:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: High importance

message: I altered a piece about the award from the Junior Chamber International (Jaycees)in accordance with this story. It was for "oustanding young person", not "influential woman".
The story:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10399804  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stunz2 (talk • contribs) 11:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit

message: Re following sentence: Her pursuit of a musical career began at the age of six, when she was cast in the lead singing role of "Little Star" in the Christmas play[5] at her school, Cobham Intermediate.[6] 
I don't know what school she was going to at age 6 but it wasn't Cobham Intermediate - that's a school for 11-12 yr olds.  Could someone more in the know please edit.  Cheers 125.237.47.75 (talk) 23:18, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion