Talk:Equine coat color

message: Do you not have brown horses in america? UK, Ireland and mainland Europe brown is nearly black but for a bay 'muzzle' -   Culnacréann 19:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, UC Davis can test for the A gene, they use is as a cross test to determine if a horse is a true black or simply a very dark brown or bay.  (I own a black that has been so tested)  And basically, if a horse has E, then it can't be a chestnut of any sort, period. Montanabw(talk) 00:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The test identifies the recessive allele, not the dominant one.Countercanter (talk) 01:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on this site, it appears they can detect the A allele.   If a horse is EE or Ee, it might be black or bay, you would have to be able to detect the dominant A to know for sure, and A is dominant over E.  However, further discussion of this is on the Horse breeds project page, don't want to repeat the same debate both places. Montanabw(talk) 08:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brown 

message: Color name	Body hair color                                                                        	Points color (Mane, tail, lower legs)                  	Other characteristics, if any                                                                               	
Bay       	Red, from light sandy red to deep reddish-brown                                        	Black                                                  	May have faint dark dorsal stripe                                                                           	
Chestnut  	Reddish-brown, from light red to dark liver brown                                      	Same as body or lighter                                	"Flaxen" gene may cause significantly lighter mane                                                          	
Gray      	White hairs mixed in with the base body coat, that increase in amount as the horse ages	May lighten with age at a different rate from body coat	Black skin, foals born dark, hair coat lightens as the horse ages                                           	
White     	White body                                                                             	White                                                  	Pink skin, blue or brown eyes, foal is born white                                                           	
Black     	Black, with no brown hairs                                                             	Black                                                  	                                                                                                            	
Buckskin  	Light cream                                                                            	Black                                                  	Horse has single copy of cream gene                                                                         	
Cremello  	Cream                                                                                  	Cream                                                  	Blue eyes                                                                                                   	
Palomino  	Yellow or golden                                                                       	Cream or white                                         	Horse has single copy of cream gene                                                                         	
Perlino   	Cream or off white                                                                     	rust or reddish                                        	Blue eyes                                                                                                   	
Dun       	Yellow, tan or light yellow                                                            	Darker color than body, usually black, brown or red    	Dorsal stripe and sometimes horizontal striping marks on forelegs, occasional transverse stripe on shoulders	
Roan      	Any color body with white hairs mixed in                                               	Same as underlying body color (bay, chestnut, black)   	Foal born roan, does not get whiter as the horse ages                                                       	
Pinto     	Large white spots over dark base body color                                            	Same as base body color, white where skin is white     	Many different patterns                                                                                     	
Leopard   	Small spots over dark base body color                                                  	Consistent with base body color                        	Many pattern variations.  Associated with breeds such as the Appaloosa                                      	
This was suggested over at Talk:Horse and figured I'd drop it in for folks to work on. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggested chart

message: Montana, I see that you have tossed an 'additional info' link I placed here.  That's too bad, because it was unique in that it explained the incredibly varied coat colors of a somewhat famous feral group, the Chincoteague pony (and therefore all the more interesting because man had little or nothing to do with the colors, it was all mother nature).  It was also very interesting to see which coat colors had gone 'extinct' in this group, again, the result of mother nature.  Oh well, that's a shame.  Here's the link for anyone who wants to check it out: http://www.chincoteaguepony.hostingrapid.com  --AeronM (talk) 01:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Aeron, the link was breed-specific.  Once we start this, then the Mustang people, the Brumby people, the Paint, pinto, appy, spotted saddle horse, palomino, and god knows who else are going to think they can add in their links.  I've seen it happen.  Per wikipedia guidelines, external links are mostly for things that we can't put into the article itself, either due to copyright info or because (like, say, a rulebook or online textbook) they are far too complex to incorporate into the article.    If you had a good scientific or well-written general reference that was up to date and not breed-specific, it might have stayed.  Montanabw(talk) 03:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Good info on coat colors

message: I edited the page and added Sabino, other genetic modifiers (pangere and sooty) and added information on other colors, such as brown and bay.Narmowen (talk) 22:33, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sabino was already there, in the "pinto" section.  I kept the new section on sooty and pangare, but I tossed the rest of the genetics stuff for two reasons:  1)  There is a separate article, Equine coat color genetics, currently undergoing a major revamp by one of our best genetics editors, but also because each of the individual coat color articles also either has or is going to get a detailed genetics section.  This article is just the "home base" that contains a simple overview.  Genetics is far too complex to hit only lightly here.   Montanabw(talk) 02:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: More up to date info

message: I was led to beleive that a "pale" horse is a creme colored horse, but although the word is used 4 times on the equine coat color page, it's not clarified.  My previous beleif (and likely a common beleif) was that a "pale" horse refers to a white horse.
There IS clarification that a creme-colored horse is sometimes referred to as a white horse. 
Not being a horse person, and seeing that the page is steeped in references to breeder science stuff, rather than layman terms, I didn't know where the "pale" listing should be added (or why it's not already present), but it seems incomplete without it.
That chart shown above would have been useful to me, as a basic understanding of what colors variations you'd expect to see, but it seems like only hardcore horse afficianados would be interested in the rest of the article details, and as such, the audience for that level of discussion would merely be here to confirm what they know, as opposed to learn anything from it.  It's a great page, and I'm not suggesting it be taken down and replaced, but that chart could be useful near the beginning of the article, with more details availible as you dig deeper into the topic.  My two cents, as it were.
--71.251.99.155 (talk) 01:45, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no such official designation or color as a "pale" horse.  Literary references may use the term, but in those contexts, they could be talking about a white horse, a horse with cream dilution, a gray horse, or who knows what.  Thanks for your comments, we do have an ongoing challenge here between accuracy and readability; especially because horse color genetics have changed our view of horse color so dramatically just in the past 5-10 years and even horse people are still arguing about it.  The chart, while not without potential, will easily bloat as everyone adds yet more nuance, it was a bit oversimplified as proposed.  I personally am not sure where the middle ground is, but your input is definitely useful!  Thanks!  Montanabw(talk) 06:02, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: On the "Albino" thing, read dominant white and lethal white syndrome where we explain both in exhaustive detail.  There's also overo and white (horse).  We're way ahead of you, though we may want to do a little tweaking on the language in this article and add more links.  Montanabw(talk) 20:53, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pale horse