Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Archive Nov 2006

message: This discussion has been moved to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Proposals -- Natalya 19:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Program: One More Chance 

message: Hello! Just thought I'd say hi on the talk page. Well Drawn  Charlie 09:35, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, nice to meet you :) Hope you enjoy it here at Esperanza. Thε Halo Θ 10:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We're glad to have you with us, Charlie!  Thanks for posting. :) -- Natalya 11:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hello, and welcome! — Editor at Large(speak) 20:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I've just joined! 

message: Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory.  This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you.   B2T2 13:38, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project directory 

message: Just joined Esperanza. I've been on wikipedia for a few months, mainly doing AV and typo work, and have seen too much wikistress already. Happy to help out whereever I am needed. The One00 13:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi The One, happy to have you with us :) Thε Halo Θ 13:23, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice to meet you! -- Natalya 15:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Welcome! —Celestianpower háblame 15:37, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome to Esperanza, we're glad to have you! --Kyoko 16:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, and welcome! -- P.B. Pilhet / Talk 18:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Welcome, The One00! I hope you enjoy it here. -- Cielomobile talk / contribs 22:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hi Everyone

message: When's the next AC meeting?--EdI'm lonely, talk to me contribs 19:06, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, when is the next AC meeting?--Atomic-Suit-n-tieWhat Have I Done?!  00:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, that cleared things up....--Atomic-Suit-n-tieWhat Have I Done?!  02:45, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, that cleared things up. Tho', I don't know why I asked, as I never participate....Maybe I will this time...--Atomic-Suit-n-tieWhat Have I Done?!  02:45, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (edit conflict)You can't participate. You see, the AC members all meet in an undisclosed location, possibly in a basement in New York City, U.S. Then they lock themselves up in a cell, and have a very secretive meeting, while one of the members take notes. The AC is then released from the prison cell, fly back to their home towns, and post the minutes here on Wikipedia.--EdI'm lonely, talk to me contribs 02:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If only it were that clandestinedly exciting... :D -- Natalya 02:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, we used to meet Dick Cheney in the bunker. Titoxd(?!?) 02:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dick Cheney?! Be careful, he'll shoot you, then make you apologize.--Atomic-Suit-n-tieWhat Have I Done?!  02:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you don't mind, Natalya, I can schedule your next AC meeting. What city do you want: Rome, Paris, London, Toronto? Once you pick a city, I can schedule you a luxury hotel, a dungeon, an underground tunnel, or a basement. Or would you like the Round Table?--EdI'm lonely, talk to me contribs 03:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Ed! Could you get us the Catacombs of Paris for the next meeting? I'm sure that the Cabal won't mind us using their secret hideout just this once ;) Thε Halo Θ 09:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This reminds me of The Da Vinci Code!  That, or Neverwhere, that was a good book.  Exciting! -- Natalya 13:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I need to read Da Vinci. —Celestianpower háblame 18:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Da Vinci is a great book. But once you're done reading Da Vinci, read Angels and Demons by Dan Brown; it's WAY better than Da Vinci.--EdI'm lonely, talk to me contribs 21:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: From that, Ed, you should probably become a travel agent! ;)  Yes, Angels and Demons was very good (I actually read it first, and enjoyed it more). -- Natalya 02:25, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How much extra for the cheap Parisian hookers? --RoninBKETC 15:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: You guys are far too funny. :D  If you're actually interested on being on the advisory council, there are elections every three months (the next ones should be in December).  If you're interested then, you are welcome to put yourself up for election! -- Natalya 19:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meeting? 

message: As I notices, there has been a serious shortage of admin coaches. The queue list lasts 45 requests. We need a way to solve this. Any opinions?
Exir KamalabadiJoin Esperanza! 08:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We could put something in the next newsletter about a shortage of admin coaches; hopefully that will help Esperanzians who may not notice the shortage participate. -- Natalya 16:47, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  We need a new co-ordinator for the programme as well, I'm now to busy to be doing it. If anyone is interested in doing the coordinating please contact me so I can pass on my (now out of date) notes list. Petros471 19:38, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would do it, I just get the feeling that I would need to be an admin to do the job. I'm having an RfA next week, which will hopefully be successful, so that could change. What do you think? Highway Grammar Enforcer! 19:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hehe, for some reason the phrasing "I'm having an RfA next week" reminded me of someone saying "I'm having an operation next Tuesday" or "I have a dentist appointment the day after tommorow".  :)  We were going to put out a call for a coordinator or two or three, but if you're interested you should talk with Petros and see what is needed for the job! -- Natalya 20:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This looks vaguely interesting. Put me down as co-coordinator, provided this doesn't mean absolute overload. Actually, if I see Highway doing this well I might actually not vote oppose in his RFA, something I do far too much:)) Moreschi 20:12, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But hang on, I'm not an admin either. Surely we need one admin at least for this??? Moreschi 20:15, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've left Petros a note asking him to drop by and let us know what qualifications are useful. -- Natalya 20:26, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is that 13 GAs you've got?? Crikey, that's impressive. Screw volatility concerns, you've got to be an admin. Moreschi 20:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

text:  Coordinating the admin coaching just means assigning coaches to trainees, and making sure the programme keeps moving. You certainly don't need to be an admin to do it (though having done admin coaching yourself would be useful, and most but not all admin coaches are admins). An idea of what different coaches are like (in terms of skills etc) is also useful, and you need to commit a reasonable amount of time to it (I used to do a large update evening every couple of weeks or so and ad-hoc updates in between). I no longer have the time to do it (otherwise I'd be happy to continue), hence why I'd like someone else to take over. I mentioned on my talk page (in reply to Titoxd) that I think it's better for one person to do it, rather than a group of several, because any relevant notes can be kept, and messages won't get lost on a spread of different talk pages. Petros471 15:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It seem like there's a big shortage of coaches - but that's easy enough to fix - ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE. I'm interested, but haven't really got the time to run the whole thing solo. Partnership can't be too awful - what sayest thou, Highway? Anyway, with a backlog of 51 something needs to be done - I reckon I can point the easy ones in the right direction. This rather looks at the moment like a program that's been a victim of its own success. Moreschi 15:27, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Go for it :) Can you drop me an email and I'll reply back with my lists of things. Petros471 16:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done! Highway Grammar Enforcer! 17:00, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for taking care of this!  We'll be letting people know about the shortage in the newsletter, as well as in a ultra-cool and new way that you'll soon find out about (it's actually not all that cool, but it is new :) -- Natalya 18:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Admin coaching. 

message: After this AC meeting, which is taking place as I type, I will be resigning from the council. Because of time pressures, school etc. I feel I'm not ale to give my all to Esperanza. Therefore, I would like to step down, and let someody else take my place, HighwayCello AFAIK. I hope to serve you again when I am more active. Cheers. --May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91 16:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry to heart that, I hope you'll try again in the next election. Excuse me, I have to go squeal ridiculously. XD Highway Grammar Enforcer! 17:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  What is the procedure in this case?  Cheers hoopydinkConas tá tú? 17:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ah nevermind actually, I just poked around and found this bit from the charter: Should a Councillor resign or leave Wikipedia, he or she is replaced by the runner up from the last election to serve out the remainder of his or her term hoopydinkConas tá tú? 17:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  And if there's a tie, we have naked mud wrestling. Cel went power mad one day. *nods* Highway Grammar Enforcer! 17:38, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's hoping for a tie then :p --Alf melmac 17:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

text: P.S. Best of luck, HighwayCello :) --May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91 18:11, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I hope I can fill your boots! :) Highway Grammar Enforcer! 18:12, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome to the council Highway, nice to have you with us (though I'm sorry we're loosing Shreshth :( ) Thε Halo Θ 18:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, ditto Natalya. We will miss your insightful and brilliant leadership. And on that note, welcome  Highway - congrats to you :) Cheers, Daniel.Bryant 03:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resigning 

message: Just joined.  Now I'm off for the night to start work on an assignment I've been putting off for a few weeks now. ~ Gromreaper 09:21, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome Grom! Highway Grammar Enforcer! 09:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a question.  How do you reap grom?  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 09:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I imagine it involves a lot of plasticine. XD Highway Grammar Enforcer! 09:40, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice to meet you! -- Natalya 18:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allo 

message: I figured I'd get a bit of an opinion on this project first. It's actually quite a simple, Esperanza one, but it would make a difference, I think.
I first noticed The Spiderman Law a couple of days ago. For some reason, it seemed to stick in my head. Such a humorous article, should, surely, be used to spread some WikiLove.
So, this is the basic idea. We make a post on every administrator's page - each one by a different person - asking them for permission to climb to Riechstag dressed as Spiderman, for some random reason. A day later, we go back, and explain it was a joke attempting to foster some goodwill, and as a sign of our appreciation to the admins.
It should make them feel loved. And isn't that what's important?
Now, I realise I should've been bold, and done it anyway. But this is the extent of my boldness. So, I figured I'd get some opinions from here. What'cha think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scalene (talk • contribs) 
:Hmm... I can see quite a few admins who probably wouldn't appreciate the pestering... -- Natalya 18:53, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Make people feel loved?? Talkpage spam and practical jokes usually don't. Moreschi 18:57, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Project: The Reichstag 

message: I saw that Flameviper mentioned this program once in the coffee lounge, but do you think you would want to add this to the affiliated programs list at the bottom of the page? We could use some advertisement to get this program really started. Admin coaching is similar, but this allows normal users to help very new users just learn the basics, while I think Admin Coaching is more geared toward subtleties after a user knows the ropes. Interested in being affiliated with us? --Daniel Olsen 18:33, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I already adopted a user.--SUIT42 18:43, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Individual adoptions are appreciated, but I think a nice little blue link at the bottom of the Esperanza page would help us get many more adoptees and adopters in the future. I'm just trying to get permission from whoever's in charge. --Daniel Olsen 18:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there seems to be general consensus to add a link to it, that should be fine.  Hearing from other Esperanzians would be good, though. -- Natalya 18:57, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: HOW DARE YOU...OUTRAGEOUS IDEA... Nah, just kidding. I can't see how this is going to cause the Esperanzian world to collapse. Sounds O.K. Moreschi 19:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Once we get enought support, then I guess it could be ok.--EdI'm lonely, talk to me contribs 22:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would anyone like to adopt me? (I think Richardshusr) already did. Otherwise, I'd prefer someone my age.) --J.L.W.S. The Special One 01:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you'd like to have someone adopt you, simple add  to your userpage and someone will gladly adopt you and help you with whatever you need to know. --Daniel Olsen 03:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:ADOPT|Adopt-a-User]] 

message: I'm trying to restore some sense of decorum to the various WP:RDs which have (IMO) devolved into newbie biting, snarky, in-joke embarrassments.  If some esperanza folks could help with this, I'd appreciate it.  What I'm looking for is folks willing to watch for unhelpful, arguably WP:BITE sorts of comments (like this one) and politely ask folks making such comments to stop (and/or simply delete such comments).  There's been discussion about this at Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk.  Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RD tomfoolery 

message: In case you didn't notice, the Norse Wikipedia now has an Esperanza too!  I hope it makes you smile as much as it does for me - our kindness is continuing to spread to other Wikipedias!  (There is already a Simple English Esperanza). -- Natalya 19:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, they need it up North - the coffee lounge makes a break from the weather. Moreschi 19:05, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norse Esperanza! 

message: All coaches present partners and students can be found at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Admin coaching/Status, if people could add their former partners and students that would help. Cheers, Highway Grammar Enforcer! 19:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Admin coaching update 

message: I'm an administrator who's blocked an anonymous IP address twice for what I have to treat as vandalism, yet I suspect this may be someone whose English language skills are very limited.  The IP address is 222.225.117.108.  The only edits they've made are to formula 1 racing finish tables and they haven't responded to questions.  The IP address originates in Japan so maybe a bilingual Wikipedian could leave a note on this editor's talk page?  Please help if you can.  Thanks, Durova 19:57, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You could also suggest the Simple Wikipedia, where articles are written in only the most well known of simple English words and phrases. It might be more benficial to them, until their English improves! Highway Grammar Enforcer! 20:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a problem that this user has actually changed finish times in ways that sometimes don't conform to official times.  At one Esperanza participant's suggestion I've cross posted this request to WikiProject Japan.  We suspect this is done in good faith, but it's causing a lot of work for the other editors on a group of pages.  If this editor doesn't communicate I have to treat it as vandalism. Durova 21:54, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I can also suggest asking at WP:RD/L since I know there are a couple regulars who know Japanese.  I would help, but I'm only in Japanese 1 so my communication skills are pretty much limited to pleasantries and asking about food XD —Keakealani 21:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unusual request: does anyone here know Japanese? 

message: We have a new program!  Exciting! :)  Take a look at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Tutorial Drive.
In a nutshell, since Esperanzians are a)Nice people and b)Great editors, it seems fitting that we create and compile a list of tutorials regarding various editing tasks around Wikipedia.  Everyone should consider writing a tutorial; it isn't all that hard, and you'd be suprised what you are really good at!  Once we get a good list of tutorials, we'll find a good place to put it, so as to allow it to benefit all of the community.
Additionally but somewhat unrelated, there will be an influx of new posts here on the Esperanza talk page within the next couple of days post-advisory council meeting; do try and read through them (I'll attempt to make them short and sweet), because there are a lot of exciting things that require input!  As always, many thanks, -- Natalya 04:51, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Program: Tutorial Drive 

message: Ok. I've just been gone 1 day (Halloween) and it seems like the whole Esperanza has changed. What happened? Is the AC Meeting over? Did we suddelny get new programs?--Ed Trick? or   Treat?  02:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Goodness, I hope I haven't confused everyone with all the new posts and such!  I've responded to your query on my talk page, Ed, but if you (or anyone) is confused, just shout!  The goal was to explain anything that was new in the new posts, but I may have very well failed.  By the way, the log of the advisory council meeting is up, in case anyone wants to read the thrilling word-for-word discussion. :) -- Natalya 03:18, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Gosh! That must have been a long meeting!--Ed Trick? or   Treat?  04:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Did this meeting take place on IRC?--Chilifix 04:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Guess I missed something....--SUIT42 04:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The advisory council meetings are currently held using Skype, which is useful because anyone who is part of the discussion but wasn't able to be there can view all of the messages afterward. -- Natalya 05:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm completely lost.... 

message: I had thought that the newsletter was monthly but I could be wrong since I joined in late August/early September. But whatever the case, can someone tell me if there's is a newsletter this month or not and when the next one will be? Thanks. // Sasuke-kun27 22:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The newsletter comes out after every advisory council meeting, and since the advisory council generally meets monthly, your assumption is correct.  However, after each new election, it takes a bit of time to get the new council together, which means the meeting may happen a little later.  In this case, the meeting happened this past Saturday, so while the newsletter will be coming out in the near future, since October ends today, it will likely be titled the "November Esperanza Newsletter".  I hope that doesn't mess with anyone's timeline. :)  -- Natalya 23:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where's the ''October Esperanza Newsletter''? 

message: Any Aussies in the crowd?  Can someone drop by User talk:VPRLC and offer some help and/or words of encouragement?  He's working on an article that's been speedied twice (no assertion of notability, then recreation of speedied/probably copyvio), currently as a subpage of his user page.  I made a similar request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian sports a while ago, but he's gotten no responses from anyone there.  I'm sure he'd appreciate even just a friendly hello.  -- Rick Block (talk) 14:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New user needs help and encouragement 

message: I'm a new member, and look forward to contributing here over the next fifty years :)
Currently, I'm suffering from Bronchitis, so my edits at the moment will be a touch low until I get over the awful nausea and chest pains :P. Pursey 13:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice to have you with us here, and I hope you feel better soon! -- Natalya 17:02, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I hope you feel much better real soon! // Sasuke-kun27 22:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great to meet you, and I hope that you're feeling better soon :) Thε Halo Θ 10:45, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the kind words :) Starting to feel better, should be back in action properly from Monday :) Pursey 15:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hello! 

message: If anyone is wondering, WP:MFD#Wikipedia:Esperanza/Coffee Lounge/Games. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 20:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, no!--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 20:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This could give the push towards a better focus towards the encyclopedia, which is a major issue here.--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 20:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am rather tempted to vote delete - an increased focus on the Encyclopedia is important. The Coffe Lounge is helpful to destress purposes, but to actually play Games on Wikipedia is probably a bad idea. I would suggest setting up some sort of Esperanza-only Games website instead. Anyway, am I free to vote, or not?? Moreschi 20:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, you're free to vote in anyway you wish Moreschi. It is, of course, best to vote in whatever way you think would best help the encyclopedia. Thε Halo Θ 21:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. One editor not in need of admin coaching...Anyway, before the vote gets buried under a flood of votes from devoted gamers, I would urge people to think. Is this really appropriate for Wikipedia, bearing in mind WP:NOT a place for social networking? Surely this would be best on an external website? I would also urge all Esperanzians to look at this worrying diff  and realize that Esperanza does have serious problems with its image that these games probably do not help. Best to all, Moreschi 22:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said, I urge everyone to vote in the way they feel would be best for the encyclopedia, be that for or against something that is connected with Esperanza. Oh and as for the Kingboyk dif, I wouldn't be too worried. He is an excellent editor, who feels very strongly that there should be little/no social aspect to wikipedia, from what I can see. Remember that this is just this one editors view, and I can think of many other editors who think differently (and not just those on our members list ;) Thε Halo Θ 22:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some Esperanza Pages Are Up for Deletion 

message: Long time wikipedian, relatively new active contributer. Figured I'd join the Esperanza community as a few more smiles here and there could do us all some good. :) --Brad Beattie (talk) 04:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome to Esperanza, Brad!  We can never have too many smiles! -- P.B. Pilhet / Talk 04:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome! —Mets501 (talk) 04:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Welcome, good to have another member on the team! Jam01 07:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great to meet you! -- Natalya 12:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, and welcome to Esperanza. It's good to meet you :) Thε Halo Θ 13:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hiya folks! 

message: I just joined Esperanza yesterday. I just wanted to get to know the other members. Hello2112 19:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello to ya, too!  I am not so new to Esperanza, but I am a lurker. Just didn't want your friendly greeting to go unanswered.  I'm a relative newby at editing, but I have gotten help where I need it from being an adoptee.  I got started by doing some categorization, which I figure gave me a great overview of a big viariety of wiki editing issues.  Trying copy-editing now.  Anyhow, welcome! --Caroldermoid (talk contribs) 20:14, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Sorry that we missed your introduction - nice to have you with us! -- Natalya 21:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm new 

message: There's no way I can join Esperanza w/o 150 edits? If I did, would anyone mind? // hackmiester (contact) 01:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Add your name here. I'd list you myself, but this way gets you a free edit. ;-) Feezo <FONT SIZE="-2">(Talk)</FONT> 04:26, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the link, I hadn't noticed that. // hackmiester (contact) 16:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Participating on this page, as well as the coffee lounge, will also boost your edit count. Not to mention the actual encyclopedia pages. --Kyoko 18:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to throw in a word, it's less about edit count and more about knowing that someone is familiar with Wikipedia and the encyclopedia.  Whenever this question comes up, JoanneB's words from a while back really sum it up well. -- Natalya 19:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure why you would want to "boost your edit count" just to do it. Don't edit just to make edits. Edit to contribute to the Wikipedia. Edit count is just an informal way of measuring how much you have done on Wikipedia. X [Mac Davis] (DESK|How's my driving?) 23:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  the edit count thing... 

message: I just joined, and per the welcome message on my talk page, I'm saying hi!. I don't know if you have any place for young contributors (since the is supposed to build community), because I'm 12. If there is, please tell me. TeckWizTalkContribs# of Edits 00:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi TeckWiz!  Welcome to Esperanza!  I don't know about any special place for young contributors, but there may be one I don't know about. Or better yet, create one yourself! —Mets501 (talk) 01:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, why does my green "e" in my sig look lighter than everyone elses? TeckWizTalkContribs# of Edits 01:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi! Why don't you join the Youth Group?--SUIT42 01:14, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  About your sig: I suggest TeckWizTalkContribs# of Edits, which gives you TeckWizTalkContribs# of Edits. All I did was change the "#00FF00" to "green" and bolded it. Hope this helps! — Editor at Large(speak) 01:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  Ack! Forgot to say welcome! Welcome, welcome! — Editor at Large(speak) 01:21, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's way too long, (God I have the urge to write "man") m- anyway, that's a bit too long. Look at WP:SIG.--SUIT42 01:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not too long, Suit, it's less than 4 lines. — Editor at Large(speak) 01:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When it comes to E@L, Suit, just use "woman".  Only two extra letters.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 01:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Hi there, welcome to Esperanza! --Kyoko 01:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: E@L off on another tangent...  Oh, and welcome aboard!!  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 01:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Hi there :) Welcome. Thε Halo Θ 13:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Hello there! Welcome to Wikipedia and Esperanza! We don't have a place for young contributors because we do not categorize people by age on this website. Everybody's treatment is based on their contributions. X [Mac Davis] (DESK|How's my driving?) 22:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hey Guys! 

message: Just joined Esperanza after editing here at Wikipedia for a little over a year. Just though I'd drop in and introduce myself to the group. FireSpike 02:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome!  Always great to have experienced editors as well as new users joining! —Mets501 (talk) 03:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool - it's lovely to have you with us! -- Natalya 03:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice to have you here :) Thε Halo Θ 17:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Welcome! —Celestianpower háblame 18:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New to Esperanza 

message: This discussion has been moved to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Proposals.--03:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Program: Why Do People Leave? 

message: Why is it that whenever I go to an Esperanza page in IE, the page goes all the way out to a side, instead of staying contained in my monitor view? On my laptop, which has Firefox, I don't have this problem. --teh tennisman Speak your piece!People Person! 22:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now, I believe it has to do with the code for the signature above.  I think it will work fine again after that section is archived.  – Heaven's Wrath   Talk  01:10, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope so!--teh tennisman 19:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page view? 

message: Perhaps we should create a subpage or something for new Esperanzians to introduce themselves to the group?  It seems to me that a lot of new users intro themselves here, and it's not necessarily Esperanza related. DoomsDay349   Happy Halloween! 03:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How is it not EA related?--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 03:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This was brought up earlier (see the archived discussion), and it was generally agreed that having a separate space might be too confusing, and it is a good way to give new users to get involved right away.  However, we did implement automatic archiving of the talk page, so any threads that are more than 7 days old are archived, which will keep the backup of threads to a minimum. -- Natalya 03:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a good solution, Natalya. I would hate to see the greetings go. Isn't that one of the points of Esperanza?  Caroldermoid (talk contribs) 17:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A thought... 

message: The connection that Esperanza has with the encyclopedic nature of Wikipedia was brought up recently, and while it was discussed (as requested) at the most recenty advisory council meeting, it is such an important issue that all of Esperanza should be a part of the discussion.  As a whole, we do a good job of figuring out what is the best for Esperanza.  So, let's do it again!
There's no doubt that the number one goal of Wikipedia is creating an encyclopedia.  Even though Esperanza works to create a community within Wikipedia, we still want to be sure that we are contributing to the encyclopedia.  Though we may seem to not be as directly focused on doing so as we could be, as the front page states, by creating a community and allowing editors a place to relax when editing gets stressful, we are helping many people to contribute productively to Wikipedia.  Additionally, we have many, many members who are fantastic contributors to the encyclopedia; many of our nearly 700 members mainly edit the encyclopedia, and spend little time within Esperanza.
Though we cannot force anyone to edit the mainspace if they do not want to (that wouldn't be very Esperanzian, now would it? ;), we can certainly do our best to give Esperanzians great venues with which to contribute to the encyclopedia.  We already have programs related to this, namely the somewhat obsolete Esperanza article drive and the newly created Tutorial drive.  If we can use these programs to their fullest extent, we will certianly be adding to the encyclopedia!  
Here is where all of Esperanza comes in.  In addition to using these programs, my hope is that this thread can be a discussion of what people feel about the topic, and what, if anything, Esperanza should add so that we can improve the encyclopedia more.  Consider this a venue for thoughts, ideas, and just general feelings on the topic.
Just remember, though we should all strive to contribute to Wikipedia the best that we can, we shouldn't lose sight of our goal to strengthen Wikipedia's community.  -- Natalya 01:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: More writing less bull? Fair point (says he who spent the whole day at AfD). I try, though. Moreschi 19:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we could have some sort of initiative for suggesting WikiProjects for interested users. Maybe what we could do is change the membership page just a little so that it'll say something like "After you sign up, please introduce yourself in (whatever page would be most appropriate) and tell us a little bit about your interests." We could then match these interests to the corresponding Wikiproject. --Kyoko 06:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that the purpose of Esperanza is to keep contributors happy and provide a simulating environment for them, so they will continue to contribute and will not leave due to stress. It would be a good idea to ask Esperanzans to introduce themselves so we could refer them to a relevant WikiProject. I try to contribute to articles as far as possible, and would appreciate being referred to a relevant WikiProject. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 10:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't we make it a mandatory requirement for each Esperanzian to be an active member of any Wikiproject?--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 20:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure that's a great idea. Firstly, how do we messure an "active member", and secondly, I wouldn't consider myself an active member of a Wikiproject, I just edit the things I want to edit. This means I would never have been able to join Esperanza :( I think the tutorial drive is really a great way to get involved. I also think that encouraging people to edit in the areas that they are interesed in is a good idea, but we must remember that we can't force anyone to edit (at least, not without becoming Un-Esperanzian). Thε Halo Θ 21:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Compulsory Wikiprojecting is going a bit far, but Kyoko's suggestion of gently pointing people in the right direction is probably a good idea. Moreschi 21:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (edit conflict) I don't think it's a good idea to require Esperanza members to belong to a Wikiproject, but I do think that suggesting Wikiprojects to new members will help guide them towards areas where they might feel bold enough to contribute. Some people come to Esperanza after being on Wikipedia for a while; some people come to it as soon as they meet the minimum requirements. I just think that by suggesting Wikiprojects, we would be furthering the development of both the community and the encyclopedia as a whole. --Kyoko 21:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Apologies for the edit conflict: agreed. Cheers, Moreschi 21:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The tutorial drive certainly seems like a good idea. Perhaps editor coaching to complement admin coaching? Introduce editors to some of the more complicated editing tasks once they've got a handle on basic editing. These two areas would complement each other nicely. --bainer (talk) 01:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Although Esperanza is a great asset to Wikipedia, one has to admit that it does seem to detract from the amount of time spent editing the actual encyclopedia. I see more & more people spending more & more time around the project, & although it does wonders for its members, the member's writing powers are being wasted. The reason why people are spending so much time here: It's just too nice a place. Maybe we should remedy this... Maybe place a few sad faced kittens around? Change all the text to ultra large? Have numerous annoying pop ups appear when you visit? These things should decrease the amount of people that visit. On the serious side, I think it's good to have Esperanza, & if people can't divide their attention between the two areas of editing (social/non-social) then maybe we should be having a discussion about them. Even if it's to get the party poopers off our backs for a while... Spawn Man 02:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually quite like the idea of a few sad kittens. At least it would balence out all the pics of nice, healthy, cute kittens on wikipedia ;) And, I also like the insightfull way in which you've pointed out that there is a difference between editors choosing not to spend so much time in mainspace, and Esperanza. Despite what some editor seem to believe, Esperanza in no way encourages editors to stop editing mainspace, and we should remember that. Thε Halo Θ 17:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Doesn't that show that so many Esperanzians are involved in Wikiprojects that even within other unrelated Wikiprojects, we run into lots of other Esperanzians...? ;) -- Natalya 17:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As someone who seems to have ties to bloody near every project out there, I can wholeheartedly support the idea of Esperanza having some sort of ties to the various WikiProjects. All the ideas above strike me as good ones, although there is a measure of coercion potentially there that isn't really what we're looking for here. Maybe if Esperanza were to participate in the :Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Core topics/Core topics COTF, that would certainly please the projects. Alternately, one idea which I think would really help a lot of the newer projects is to maybe persuade some members of Esperanza to serve as a kind of set-up committee. They could help with tagging articles, helping with the design of the project page, contacting individuals who might be interested in the project, helping design the various templates, that sort of thing. Yes, the WikiProject Council does some of that already, but it functions primarily in an advisory capacity.  If Esperanza could help the newer projects with a sort of start-up temp service, I'm certain they would be very welcome. I know from unfortunate experience that all of that is a lot harder than it might look, and think any new project would sincerely welcome the help of people with a bit more experience. Also, there are a lot of articles out there which don't fall under the scope of any projects, particularly, say, areas of Africa, Antarctica, some of the sciences, etc. If Esperanza could gently persuade some of its members to collaborate on one or two of the important articles from these subject areas, I'm sure that would be quite welcome as well. Badbilltucker 00:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have two proposals that I hope to begin a reformation of Esperanza.  Check them out.  DoomsDay349 21:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Esperanza and the Encyclopedia

message: Hi all! Just joined, can't wait to meet you all!! I want to introduce myself to all of you personally, but there are too many! So, I thought this will do. Anyway, I am glad that I could be an Esperazian. Lastly, hello again! Zachary crimsonwolf 14:07, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, Zachary! Nice to meet you. Hope you enjoy yourself here! You could check out the coffee lounge for a place to chill out, or if you're looking to help out, see the proposed programs page. --May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91 14:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, nice to have you here :) Thε Halo Θ 14:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It was no trouble at all. :) -- Natalya 17:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hello... 

message: Hello!  I have just joined Esperanza, and look forward to helping out, though I think most of the things I will be working on are a continuation of many of my previous activities...  but who can speak with certainty?  Anyway, I don't know if anyone else is interested, but I have figured out how to change the color of the title of a page, and have done so on my Esperanza sub-page.   Dar-Ape 03:36, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice to meet you!!!--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 03:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome, Dar-Ape.  We're glad to have you with us! -- Natalya 23:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I loved your Esperanza page so much, I stole it.  Let me know if this is NOT OKAY. I will take it down right away! Caroldermoid (talk • contribs) 21:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may take anything you like!  Dar-Ape 22:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you do it? TeckWizTalkContribs# of Edits 02:19, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Color 
Purple
 GREEN 

message: By now everyone shoulc have noticed the new universal header placed on all of the EA pages. (I hope). Does anyone think that we should add this header to the discussion pages of all of the subpages? What about the archives? --Ed ¿Cómo estás? 03:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great work! And I don't see why not. --May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91 04:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks very cool!  I think it should be on all E pages! Caroldermoid (talk • contribs) 17:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Header 

message: Per my above messages, I have created the proposal for The Esperanza Collaboration of the Month.  It's part of an effort to make Esperanza more valuable to the encyclopedia.  I decided to go with month rather than week as it seems like we could get more done that way.  So, it's a proposed program now, and we felt it should be proposed now rather than at the next AC meeting.  So please vote! DoomsDay349 03:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can check out the discussion at this discussion. DoomsDay349 03:36, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Program Proposal 

message: Could any AC member please move this proposal to the programs page, as it has been receiving quite a lot of support, and no objections. It's best if we get on with this quickly, IMO. --May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91 04:32, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've talked to Natalya, but I think she's offline.  DoomsDay349 04:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done!  We officially have a new program!  Everyone should consider participating, it should be pretty awesome.  -- Natalya 05:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: We must have been thinking the same thing!  It's already been put there, along with a link for the Tutorial Drive.  -- Natalya 05:36, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  :)  I'm glad we got this up and running so fast.  Let's hope it doesn't turn into the Article Drive... O_O DoomsDay349 05:56, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Esperanza/Collaboration of the Month]] 

message: I joined, ooh, five minutes ago so because i'm prone to getting into stressful situations and I think that the programmes here are great to beating that, so just thought i'd let y'all know
†he Bread 00:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome!  It is always great to see new faces.  I hope you will think of joining one of the great programs and consider adding your birthday to the calendar.  – Heaven's Wrath   Talk  00:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's lovely to have you with us! -- Natalya 06:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome! It's great to have you here :) Thε Halo Θ 11:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hello and welcome to Esperanza :). —Celestianpower háblame 17:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice to have you along! -- P.B. Pilhet / Talk 18:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  It's Me! 

message: Is it okay if I have a green "K" in my name? I don't have an "e" in there..... Kyo cat(Talk) 18:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It certainly is ok! Nice sig, by the way :) Thε Halo Θ 18:39, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ¡Gracias! Kyo cat(Talk) 00:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, can someone help me with my userpage? The drop down table that says "All my userboxes" is part of the problem. The orange background of the entire page stops at the table, even though there is more content at the bottom? Don't understand what I just said? (I don't either) Please check my userpage! ¡Gracias! Kyo cat(Talk) 04:13, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I see it. Uh... You change the background color in the table. It should say on yours currently <background color= "none"> or something similar. Just change it to orange. Nice page by the way.--SUITWhat?  42 04:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much! I wish it could look better though....but thanks for the help and compliment! See my wikipals section of the userbox table thing for a surprise in about 5 minutes! Kyo cat(Talk) 04:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You had some extra code.  I removed it.  Check your page now.  – Heaven's Wrath   Talk  04:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: No problem.  If you need anymore help with your page.  Leave me a message.  – Heaven's Wrath   Talk  06:26, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: My Esperanza link

message: As sumbitted. WikieZach| talk 22:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where? - Che Nuevara 04:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but I can't find it either :( Thε Halo Θ 13:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I figured that the header ("Motion to Repeal Charter") was in fact his motion.  – Heaven's Wrath   Talk  21:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh ... maybe someone wants to add some substance to this? Or is this a joke? I can't really be sure ... - Che Nuevara 22:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I need some clarification here...--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 22:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think this would be a joke. Wikizach is a serious person, from my experience with him. It's probably best to leave this here for the while, and see if he, or anyone else who agrees with repealing the charter, would like to say anything. Thε Halo Θ 22:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm aware of that, and I'd be ready to have a charter discussion if one came up. I'd just really like to know why. - Che Nuevara 22:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motion to Repeal Charter 

message: I just created an essay (more like a story) on User:Ed/Kindness. In your opinion, should this become something that the typical Esperanzian should think about everyday?--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 04:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (sigh)I'm getting bored tonight. Whenever I'm online, virtually no one's here! I have a question: is the IRC channel live-chat? And if so, how do I get there? I keep having trouble getting on the IRC channel.--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 04:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is, but the Esperanza channel is seldom well-populated. (#wikipedia and #wikipedia-en generally have pretty good attendance, though.) You need to log into freenode.net's irc server, and then you just join #wikipedia-esperanza. - Che Nuevara 04:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I should probably point out that an essay that I had written and posted in my userspace was politely objected to as being inappropriate for hosting on Wikipedia. I eventually moved the essay to another website. --Kyoko 14:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kindness 

message: My RfA passed with a tally of 71/1/0. Thank you very much for your support. I hope that my performance as an admin will not disappoint you. Please let me know if you see me doing anything inappropriate. -- Donald Albury 02:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Congratulations! --May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91 04:36, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Congratulations!--SUITWhat?  42 04:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Congrats, hope you do a good job ;-).--Skully Collins Edits 07:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dalbury's RfA 

message: If you haven't seen the MFD sign on the page, Esperanza is up for deletion as well as all the subpages. Go to the main Esperanza page, click "this articles entry, and voice your opinion. I of course disagree with it on all points except the Coffee Lounge, which I think should be deleted. TeckWizTalkContribs# of Edits 17:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is madness. Esperanza is perhaps the most successful organisations of its type. I agree that the Coffee Lounge is next to useless, but the rest should be maintained - • The Giant Puffin • 18:56, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Esperanza up for deletion 

message: For the last two weeks, I've been doling out Random Smileys - a variation on the Random Acts of Kindness philosophy, except in the form of those yellow "Have A Nice Day" smileys. 
I've received many kind thanks and well-wishes, and was referred to this group by one editor. 
If anyone is willing to help take part in the project, please go to  User:Pedia-I/SmileyAward and scroll down to see the list of variant templates which you can place on User or User:Talk pages. In the works are several upcoming models, including a new Chocolate Chip Cookie Smiley - with chocolate chips forming the familiar face, this time on a cookie. This would work especially well for those who are allergic to the "Have A Nice Day" concept as a result of overexposure during the 1970s. 
Thus far I've been doling them out to randomly-picked editors, usually by starting with one user and then picking one of the recent people who have edited that person's talk page, then repeating the process.  Any other random or pseudorandom method would work.
If several volunteers each add 5 - 10 Smileys per day, before long Wikipedia will be teaming with the bright yellow faces. It will be a happier, sunnier place in which to work. 
The template codes for the various current types of Smileys are as follows (pick one):
* 
* 
* 
* 
Heartfelt thanks to those who are willing to help out. Pedia-I 21:40, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Random Smiley Award Project

message: If Esperanza is deleted, how many people would leave Wikipedia?  Also asking if Esperanza is moved to another Wikia, how many of you would leave Esperanza?  Respond as follows;
1. I would not.
2. I would.
And those are my votes, actually.  DoomsDay349 01:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not leave Wikipedia, but I'd be so bored that I'd pretty much go crazy. If Esperanza was moved to another Wikia, though, I'd definately follow and hopefully many other members would as well. // Sasuke-kun27 02:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Without Esperanza, the stress would overwhelm me, and I'd leave Wikipedia. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 02:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd stay in Wikipedia, but not Esperanza. I don't have time to switch wikis over and over... But maybe I'll stay with Esperanza... We'll see.--SUITWhat?  42 02:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope that regardless of what happens, all of you will stay here and edit - all of your contributions are appreciated, and you should know that. -- Natalya 03:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would stay here. Esperanza is important, but I would probably forget my password on another wiki (eh heh heh...). I agree with Natalya, too. Kyo cat(T)•(C) 03:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: No, I wouldn't leave. I would likely create an organization with some of the features of Esperanza, but far more encyclopedia based. Probably. I think that there is still loads to do here with or without Esperanza (articles to get featured, vandals to fight etc), so I wouldn't leave, no. Thε Halo Θ 12:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I would leave even if the Coffee Lounge was deleted.. Wikipedia used to be such a boring place until I discovered the CL.. And I am actually thinking about leaving just because the games were deleted.. When will people realize that everyone doesn't find editing encyclopedias such a interesting thing..Jayant,17 Years, India • contribs 02:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you realise that it is comments like that which are exactly the reason why many people wish for Esperanza to be deleted?  If you don't find editing an encyclopedia to be interesting, then go and find yourself a forum somewhere where you can chat with your buddies and play games. The Crying Orc 13:29, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: Can I bring peoples' attention to this question I asked yesterday...?  It doesn't really matter to me if we discuss it there or here. -- SCZenz 21:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey.  It's being discussed at the overhaul page.  I want it gone, personally, but maybe, maybe, by some act of God, it will be salvaged.  We'll see.  DoomsDay349 23:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Userpage award 

message: I voted delete in the mfd discussion because to me this project appeared to encourage 'social networking', violating WP:NOT. Now, I'm not a member and would like to ask, what is it you guys do? Your main project page says you encourage a 'sense of community' by giving out compliments and generally trying to be nice. Now this is all well, but how do you guys go about doing this? Do you constantly patrol user talk pages to see if someone is having a problem? Or do users come here and say they are 'sad' or something of that sort? In a sense couldn't this whole project be replaced by an essay with summary of "Wikipedian are people too, so be nice"? The essay could also link to various templates like Template:welcome and Template:smile. So basically what I'm asking, why do you need a project to encourage 'mental support' to new and stressed wikipedians? Thank you.  - Tutmosis 02:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not really qualified to explain Esperanza as I only joined a few days ago, so I won't, but I would like to thank you for asking your questions in such a nice way. The MfD scared me a bit, I must admit, and I was afraid the incivility would continue. Hopefully not, if everyone is a courteous as you. :) Marialadouce | parlami 02:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you. Anyway I'm a little confused why people are so eager to keep this project. By my deletion support I'm not trying to get rid of this project's users from wikipedia, I'm just saying that I see no point in this pages themselves. Wikipedians can still be nice to each other without a project page, in my view all this project is trying to do is get around policy of no 'social networking'. This project looks like it was made for people who want to get away from routines of wikipedia and to socialize, basically. Anyone is welcome to challenge my view, and I look forward to it. My understanding of things isn't perfect.  - Tutmosis 02:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about Esperanza 

message: Let us, as a community, consider each page/project one by one. I propose we begin with the Coffee Lounge, since it seems to be one of the bigger items of contention. Comment at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Coffee Lounge, and let's see if we can't come to a consensus in a few days. Yes? --Fang Aili talk 02:16, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Coffee Lounge really needs a revamp as it is always targeted for deletion. We really need a major overhaul to achieve our goals as an organisation to benefit the encyclopedia. --Terence Ong (C | R) 09:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's consider the Esperanza pages one by one 

message: Hello everyone. There were quite a few valid concerns that occurred over at the MfD, and I'd like to make a suggestion as to how to address a few of those. I propose an amendement to the Esperanza charter, to be inserted in the "Mission" section, that reads:
===A. Programs===
All Esperanza programs shall be designed to either directly benefit the encyclopedia or directly assist, encourage, or support those who contribute to the encyclopedia. No programs shall exist solely for the purpose of entertainment or socializing, with the exception of off-wiki efforts such as the Esperanza IRC channel.
----
This amendment would be applied retroactively to all existing programs. I realize this may not be the most popular suggestion, as many of us love the coffee lounge, etc., and feel that it does some good for the encyclopedia's community, but based on the comments of the MfD, I highly doubt the Coffee Lounge would survive an MfD of its own. Rather than wait for that to happen, I suggest this proactive measure to begin our reform of Esperanza. I look forward to your constructive comments and criticism. Cheers, EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 00:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This amendment has been brought up at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Charter now.  Please voice your opinions about it, lots of input is important! -- Natalya 23:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed amendment to Esperanza charter

message: All Esperanza programs shall be designed to either directly benefit the encyclopedia or directly assist, encourage, or support those who contribute to the encyclopedia. No programs shall exist solely for the purpose of entertainment or socializing, with the exception of off-wiki efforts such as the Esperanza IRC channel.
----
This amendment would be applied retroactively to all existing programs. I realize this may not be the most popular suggestion, as many of us love the coffee lounge, etc., and feel that it does some good for the encyclopedia's community, but based on the comments of the MfD, I highly doubt the Coffee Lounge would survive an MfD of its own. Rather than wait for that to happen, I suggest this proactive measure to begin our reform of Esperanza. I look forward to your constructive comments and criticism. Cheers, EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 00:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This amendment has been brought up at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Charter now.  Please voice your opinions about it, lots of input is important! -- Natalya 23:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A. Programs

message: I always thought positively of Esperanza's ideas of keeping and building a strong Wikipedian community. However, Esperanza seems to be building a strong Esperanza community instead. Instead of something like a WikiProject Community Building or a WikiProject Be Kind and Appreciate Other Editors it has become a club most of whose community building activities are self-centered. It appears to me less as a group reaching out to all Wikipedians than as an association of young Wikipedians, and many of the activities seem to appeal mostly to young people. Or at least, they don't appeal to me, and that might be because I'm above 30. The recent "let's do something for the encyclopedia" activities serve to me as a confirmation of this trend of becoming a young wikipedian's club: they are where the club has an activity where they show young Wikipedians can contribute well in this organizational form. Appearing to look like a club, though, seems directly against the statement from Wikipedia:Esperanza "Esperanzians try to spread hope throughout the encyclopedia, and Spanish is used in the hope that a segment of the Wikipedia community will never again break away as a portion of the Spanish Wikipedia did to form Enciclopedia Libre." because it shows a fractured community. I don't personally care how much work Esperanzans do on the encyclopedia, the CotM will probably not be as effective as that of a focused WikiProject anyway. But I think you need to rethink what Esperanza was started for and whether the current form accomplishes that. Building a community and especially reaching out to a community as diverse as the Wikipedian community is hard work, requires lots of creativity and understanding of people of all kinds, and can't be simply done by putting nice templates and smiling faces on editors' talk pages. Still, I am an optimist and I still hope that Esperanza can work for the Wikipedia community instead of for itself as a subcommunity, and that the recent MFD helps Esperanza to find its focus again. Good luck from a non-member, Kusma (討論) 09:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you try to become a better community in Wikipedia, it sounds like you are not working to strengthen the Wikipedia community, but the Esperanza subcommunity. This can cause a weakening of the Wikipedia community as a whole, so could be against Esperanza's stated goals. Kusma (討論) 15:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the comments, Kusma, I think many people will appreciate them after reading them.  One thing though, true, Esperanza has many young members (as does Wikipedia), but you shouldn't make such an assumption about the entirety of Esperanza.  :) -- Natalya 16:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Esperanza's mission 

message: I have written an essay inspired by the recent MFD.  Read it and tell me what you think on the essay's talk page.  It can be found at: User:Jayron32/Orthodoxy and heresy at Wikipedia --Jayron32 04:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New essay inspired by recent MFD. 

message: Can we have an AC Meeting anytime soon? I think that due to the massive overhauls we're having, it is necessary to be able to get this finished before the next MfD comes (I know it's going to come back; there's a debate over the result of our first MfD!).--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 04:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Know it's going to come back? Not looking on the brightside of life Ed ;) If our reforms go well, we will focus on the encyclopdia a lot more, so hopefully there should be no reason for a second MfD. Also, the AC has been Meeting a lot unoffically during this whole period, so there's no real reason for one schedualed meeting, I think. Thε Halo Θ 15:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Additionally, these issues and changes are so important that having a dialouge between all Esperanza members is really helpful. -- Natalya 17:05, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was on IRC but no one was discussing.  Meh, I'd have liked to have a live chat.  DoomsDay349 21:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AC Meeting 

message: From both discussions about the Coffee Lounge so far, my reading of it is that the consenus is to delete it (and then maybe start a new thing in it's place...). Am I right in thinking this, or do people want to wait some more before deciding if a consenus has been reached? Thε Halo Θ 23:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I seriously think that we should delete it. If we are to start something else in its place, it should include EVERYONE, not just EA.--Chili 23:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be alright to propose Coffee Lounge for deletion now, but please preserve the overhaul page.  Discussion would continue and a new thing would be put up.  And, Chili,you have good ideas; check out the overhaul page and please put your views down! DoomsDay349 06:12, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delete the Coffee Lounge? 

message: Esperanza is about a sense of community. If we eliminate all programs except ones that have to do with Wikipedia, your basically getting rid of everything that has a sense of community, like Barnster Brigade, Birthday/first edit day congrats, etc. However, though I say that programs like these deserve to stay, these programs help editors by giving them support. Programs like the coffee lounge should be deleted because they don't help editors at all. In short, if it helps Wikipedia and the editors, it should stay. editor review me!-TeckWizTalkContribs# of Edits 01:51, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of non encyclopedic programs 

message: Let's say that one of the resolutions of an overhaul (like this one) resulted in the community in favor of deletion. What policy on Wikipedia could get that page deleted? Can we just delete the page because the community decided on it? Or must we get an external admin to deal with it?--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 02:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's going to be deleted? Damn. // Sasuke-kun27 02:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is a broad enough consensus to delete it (many editors have weighed in) it can just be deleted by any admin.  Let's leave the discussion open for a few more days, though. —Mets501 (talk) 02:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Results of Overhaul Discussions 

message: There is currently discussion over whether or not to keep the Esperanza governance, located here.  Please discuss; this is something that needs mucho discussion. DoomsDay349 07:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Governance 

message: Yup, it's finally up.  The coffee lounge is up for MFD, with good reason.  See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Esperanza/Coffee lounge and also Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Coffee Lounge.  DoomsDay349 07:25, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yay!--SUITWhat!? 42 07:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ummm... you're oddly positive.  DoomsDay349 07:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, just stay positive. Just stay positive. Yay. Well, it'd happen eventually any way.--SUITWhat!? 42 07:36, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 07:41, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Coffee Lounge MFD

message: Having read the comments at all the latest deletion discussions it appears that a lot of people view EA as a sort of clique or club within wikipedia that serves to benefit its members rather than the community as a whole. I think this is turning into a problem that's serving to polarise us against the community in various subtle ways.
I would therefore like to suggest we get rid of the membership list. I'm not sure it is very useful as it is at the moment. Most entries on the list are inactive and it's not like you have to be a member to be a part of Esperanza. We should (well, we do) welcome everyone, member or not. Are we not here to do a service to the community as a whole rather than our members.
Removing clear demarcations of membership I think would be a step towards breaking down the us/them polarization that's pervading discussions about us at the moment. Esperanza should be all inclusive rather than be perceived as a members club.  YDAM TALK 08:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that this was brought up somewhere else, though I can't find it now. Anyway, I'd be more than happy to get rid of the members list, for the reasons above. A 700 user long members list kind of made us look more like a social club then a real wikipedia project anyway. Thε Halo Θ 11:04, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't mind keeping the userboxes and banners. As well as the green e's. I suppose that some people might see the green e as divisive, though. --Kyoko 13:17, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I, again, agree :) This is a WikiProject, and wikiprojects often have userboxes and banners, so I see no reason to get rid of those. Also, I think that anyone who wants to keep the e should be allowed to. I've still got mine, it just doesn't link anywhere. However, it is now part of how I am, and how I few myself, so I would like to keep it. Thε Halo Θ 13:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, I've got no objection to green e's and userbox's. I don't think getting rid of those is going to really achieve much.  YDAM TALK 13:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the bit of discussion Halo was talking about was in the second half of Wikipedia_talk:Esperanza#Proposed_reforms. -- Natalya 13:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Natalya, that's just what I was thinking of :) Thε Halo Θ 13:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  An idea on the membership list 

message: With the recent MfD nomination of Esperanza, I got this idea from several threads at various locations, including the MfD talk page and Village Pump.
Perhaps we should have some games which build the encyclopedia. This would make contributing more fun and less stressful. We could have a scoring system and prizes. In addition, we'll show our critics that we do build the encyclopedia.
What do you think? Any ideas for games? --J.L.W.S. The Special One 10:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a look at Wikipedia:Sandbox/Word Association. On the one hand, it's in the Sandbox, and therefore perceived as harmless. On the other, it has the stated goal of being "a good place to practice making links to articles, and to start looking for interesting articles on Wikipedia." I don't know why we can't apply this model that Wikipedia seems to accept, to some of our community building projects. --RoninBKETC 14:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Encyclopedia-building games? 

message: The Coffee Lounge has been deleted, as per this discussion. Thε Halo Θ 13:24, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coffee Lounge Deleted 

message: Please discuss the nomination for deletion here: Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Esperanza/Barnstar Brigade --tgheretford (talk) 14:35, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably becuase there seems to be a consensus here to wait for the reforms before a mass of MfDs on Esperanza programs. Thε Halo Θ 14:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is anything good that came out from that discussion (apart from the deletion!) I have suggested a (preferably urgent) review of userpages, userboxes and user signatures guidelines at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Overhaul of Userpages, userboxes and user signatures, as per suggestions of a number of contributors to that MfD. --tgheretford (talk) 15:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barnstar Brigade page up for deletion 

message: It is very important that Esperanza is a part of the Wikipedia community, not separated from it. For lack of a better name, I have created a subpage at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Outreach that I hope everyone will start discussion at. (And yes, I know that it is ironic to call an integration subpage "outreach"...if you have a better idea, suggestions are welcome.) EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 23:25, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For the moment I've moved this page to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Becoming a part of the community. Other suggestions are still welcome. EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 23:43, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Becoming a part of the community, not a subculture

message: I made a proposal at the proposal page from the suggestions and comments on the many pages discussing the coffee lounge. Please have a look at it and share your opinions about it.  Shardsofmetal  02:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editor forum 

message: The Esperanza community currently is in crisis. We're being scrutinised by everyone, and we're falling apart under the pressure. This needs to stop.
A stronger community fosters a nicer place in which to work. The nicer the place is to work, the more people will want to work there. The more people want to work here, the more contributions they will make, and the greater the encyclopedia will become. Thus, Esperanza was created. Esperanza aimed to promote the key principles of kindness and civility within the community, thus improving the encyclopedia.
Esperanza was never meant to play a direct part in encyclopedia-building. It was never meant to be about our contributions to the encyclopedia content. Within Esperanza, we were there to support contributors, so they did more. Of course, being Esperanzian didn't preclude contributing - far from it - but it gave us the extra role of supporting the community.
Esperanza has lost its way in this regard. The otherwise great programs for achieving these goals have now been deleted, having simply gone awry. The coffee lounge was meant to be a place where people could go when they needed a break: an online IRC. Where you can discuss things amongst others sharing your views. It bred silliness. The userpage award was supposed to encourage those with HTML talent, showing they have a place here, but it was seen as a silly distraction from our goal.
This is what worries me. People seem to want Wikipedians to be simply robots. They want us to not feel, and not get bored, to not want fun, and to not want to enjoy our time here. We are human, so this attitude fails in a big way. I believe Esperanza is still necessary, for creating that strong, united community, for that purpose set out at the beginning. I hope that I'm not alone. Regards, —Celestianpower háblame 13:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with all the above. Some of Esperanza has lost its way. Some of it has become less relevant, and some of it became plain silly. That's not to say our original goals are now less than the once were. The ideal still remains the same. To try and make Wikipedia a happier, better environment to edit. However, it seems now that we want to rid Esperanza of any trace of it's former self, which is not where we want to go at all. If this MfD period has shown anything, it is that Wikipedia's community is far from a united force working towards the common goal of building an encyclopaedia and supporting one another while doing it. Because wikipedia is divided sometimes doesn't mean we must delete everything we ever stood for, just parts of things which no longer work so well. We must try to remember that Esperanza stands for hope, and while editing the encyclopaedia is a very large part of that, we must not forget our dedication to the wider wikipedia community. Thε Halo Θ 13:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the wholesale slaughter of Esperanza programs is a tragedy. Celestianpower, I understand that Esperanza wasn't as much about building the encyclopedia. Unfortunately, MfD has told us that we are not above the rules. The sentence that comes to mind about Esperanza is: "Building the encyclopedia, while building the community that builds the encyclopedia" Building the encyclopedia is where CotW's, whatever form Admin coaching takes, and general information sharing falls under. Building the community is where the loftier goals such as kindness and civility, wikistress reduction, and contribution recognition reside. As long as both sides of that equation are in balance, and one is not favored to the detriment of the other, Esperanza can create a better Wikipedia. --RoninBKETC 13:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I diasgree. I've never said we're above the rules. However, I don't see where we are above the rules. We are improving the encyclopedia (or at the very least, we're trying to) by improving the community, and improving the individual editors within it. If that's against the rules, then I'm not sure this is the right place for me to be. We're not about COTWs or direct contribution: there are hundreds of those projects already. We're adressing (or, once again, trying to adress) the community aspect, which is just as important. We're a simple Wikiproject, working on one aspect of the equation, just like other Wikiproject does. Regards, —Celestianpower háblame 13:49, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  What I am referring to is the oft-quoted, (or oft-thrown-in-our-face if you prefer,) WP:NOT policy that states that Wikipedia pages should exist "only to present information relevant to working on the encyclopedia." Even in comparing Esperanza to a WikiProject, all WikiProjects are for building the encyclopedia. Building the community should not, and does not have to come at the expense of building the encyclopedia. For Esperanza to survive, we will have to prove that building the community is the same thing as building the encyclopedia. I believe that they are the same. --RoninBKETC 14:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, that's what I'm saying. Since it's my firm belief that a healthy community fosters a healthy encyclopedia, we are certainly presenting information relevant to working on the encyclopedia. Regards, —Celestianpower háblame 15:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Right. The distinction we have to make clear to everyone else is that we are not building the community independent of the encyclopedia, which is the perception that is currently plagueing us. This is why I think projects like CotW help us, and I think a rebranding of ourselves (like my original bolded sentence above,) to clearly indicate we are still interested in building the encyclopedia would be helpful. I suppose on one level it's an appeasement, but on the other hand, I think that the Wikipedia community in general wants to be reassured that we hold their values as well. --RoninBKETC 17:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You've just hit the nail on the head. We're making the community for the encyclopedia, not independant of it. That's a great way of putting it. Thanks! —Celestianpower háblame 21:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The spirit of Esperanza 

message: Many of the discussions of reforms have gone into the voting phase, so I thought it would help you to have an update on the relevant issues:
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Governance - There are currently four proposals: that the current governing system be kept as is, that it be abolished for either two or four months to test whether Esperanza actually needs that layer of bureaucracy, that it be replaced with two "consuls" to act a a balance of power, or that the council should be abolished permanently.
*Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Overhaul/Coffee Lounge - An Esperanza noticeboard, that could potentially incorporate stressed users, the good aspects of the coffee lounge, and the to-do list has been proposed.
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Admin Coaching - Admin coaching is still in the discussion phase, with suggestions to rename or delete and redirect to adopt a user being considered.
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Stress Alerts - Stress Alerts are still in the discussion phase, though a suggestion that they be deleted and resurrected in a third party format at the proposed noticeboard has been made.
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/To-Do List - There are currently two proposals: keep as is, or delete.
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Appreciation Week - There are currently three proposals: that it be kept as is, that it be deleted as an Esperanzan project and be proposed for all Wikipedians at the village pump, or that it be deleted permanently.
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Newsletter - There are currently two proposals: keep as is, or delete. Some residual discussion regarding an "opt-in" list rather than an opt-out list is continuing.
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Calendar - There are currently three proposals: that it be kept as is, that it be moved from Esperanza to the Birthday Committee, or that it be deleted permanently.
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Members List - There are currently three proposals: that the list be kept, that it be kept but the inactive section removed, or that it should be deleted altogether. Discussion is ongoing as to whether it promotes Esperanzans as "set apart".
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Stressbusters - A suggestion has been made by me for this largely inactive project to be deleted and reproposed at Wikiproject Wikidemia. Initial discussion has begun.
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/WikiProject Award - A discussion has just opened about whether the Esperanza barnstar is too exclusive.
Thoughts and contributions to these discussions are welcome. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 19:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the update. With so many things going on, its hard to keep up - • The Giant Puffin • 12:53, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overhaul update. 

message: For quicker accessibility and to get this out to everyone, here is a link to all the overhauls that we have as of yet.  Any more, I will update them.  Debate is appreciated.
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Goals
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Charter
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Coffee Lounge
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Admin Coaching
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Archiving
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/User Page Award
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Barnstar Brigade
*Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Collaboration of the Month
Please come by and discuss.  DoomsDay349 23:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Who decided that the overhaul had to take place across multiple pages? Why can't there be a centralized discussion on what needs to change, what needs to go, and what needs to stay? ★MESSEDROCKER★ 00:13, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, I pretty much agree, but I just went along with the style.  We can merge them all onto a centralized overhaul page, if you think that's the best idea.  DoomsDay349 00:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that any one individual page would become gargantuan with discussion. Part of the problem at the MfD was that some people were pushing for everything to go, others wanted some gone but allowed for some to stay, and some wanted everything to stay. This method seems to allow that sort of discussion to take place. - Che Nuevara 00:22, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I missed the MFD discussion and would like to make just one point that is related to Esperanza as a whole. That is: that WP is one of the largest (the largest?) organisations in the world relying on volunteers. And other serious volunteer organisations take volunteer support seriously. It should be taken very seriously in WP, because the whole enterprise is addictive. It attracts disproportionate numbers of people who are in some way vulnerable - insomnia sufferers to cite only the most obvious condition. So for the WP enterprise to be morally justifiable it has a responsibility to give some basic support to those whose efforts it relies on. Esperanza and the Kindness Campaign are the main ways in which that currently happens; they must be expanded and improved, not deleted. Sorry this is turning into a bit of an essay. Please feel free to move it to another location if there is a more appropriate one. Itsmejudith 01:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overhauls 

message: This is not a proposed reform in any way, but I wanted to bring my thoughts up here in case any other users agree with me or disagree with me and would like to discuss this.  In short, I am considering removing the green "e" from my signature.  I realize this is not compulsory, but it is used in some form by almost all members.  Esperanza is about creating a closer knit community, but I feel that an overt advertisement of membership sets these signatures apart, and albeit rare exceptions, Esperanza is the only organization that commands a place in its members signatures.  Additionally, the Esperanza subpage contains little real information; one could simply click on a simple signature and be told on the following user page that this contributor is a member of Esperanza.  I would appreciate any thoughts, as I am not fully committed to this yet. Dar-Ape 23:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally agreed.  I would have my Esperanza page deleted but I don't know the process =P.  I already removed the green 9 from my sig, as it was a distraction to other editors.  I think I have a two line sig now, which is good I think.  It was three lines before.  It's tough to create policy for this though...I mean, hey, Esperanza tells us what we can and can't have in our signatures!  What I would do is delete the template.  That'll cut off the source entirely. DoomsDay349 00:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you created it and it's in your userspace, you can tag it for speedy delete. - Che Nuevara 00:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I've always thought that some people assume the green in my sig is for EA. It's not. - Che Nuevara 00:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm getting rid of that stuff. It's useless, you know?--SUITWhat!? 42 00:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mine is proposed for speedy deletion...dunno if they acted on it yet.  I hope I used the right template... DoomsDay349 00:43, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What did you use? I use --SUITWhat!? 42 00:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's absolutely nothing wrong with a green e.  lols. - Hahnchen 01:08, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that you point it out, Hahnchen, I'm very curious as to why your e links to evil. - Che Nuevara 01:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  is correct.  – Heaven's Wrath   Talk  01:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I just redirected mine so my old signatures wouldn't have a dead link, but whatever floats your boat.  Dar-Ape 01:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: If we agree on this, we can't really tell people "you can't have a green "e" in your signature, but we can take that bit out of  So you've joined Esperanza..., so that if people put it in, it is by choice.  It seems like that is a pretty reasonable option.  -- Natalya 13:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Signature 

message: See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Esperanza/User Page Award -- SCZenz 23:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the link :) Thε Halo Θ 23:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  User Page Award nominated for deletion 

message: I started a Forum page on User:Ed/Sandbox. I'll be working on it for a while, but feel free to edit it.--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 00:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've done some work. Comments/suggestions welcome. --May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91 16:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Forum 

message: I think it best if this contentious manner is resolved in-house, something that I don't think would be against policy in any way - after all, it is Esperanza's Coffee Lounge - another painful MFD is a thing to be avoided. I would like to set up a straw poll on this issue: should the Coffee Lounge go, or should it be kept? If it is to be kept, perhaps it would be best to give a couple of weeks for reform: and then, if this is not done or meets with big resistance within Esperanza, IMO an MFD will be necessary to gain the consensus of the wider community. Best to all, Moreschi 17:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You might want to see this overhaul page for debate.  DoomsDay349 00:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, there are two straw polls going on and we should restrict to the overhaul page where the coffee lounge is being specifically discussed.--Húsönd 02:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coffee Lounge straw poll 

message: *I'm in the clear minority here but I'll talk anyway. Keep, tag with , then don't use anyomore. My rationale for suggesting this is on behalf of the many people who have made edits at the Coffee lounge and their edit counts (Not myself, I've made 2 edits there I think). Also it has become a known part of WP, see the 50+ Archives, and should be kept for historical intrests. 
†he Bread 03:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Keep

message: *Unecyclopaedic: violates WP:NOT a place for social networking (discussing your medical problems???) - an "on-wiki chat centre" shouldn't really be allowed in any shape or form; it is potentially deletorious to the image of Wikipedia as a reputable encyclopaedia and has proved catastrophic for the image and perception among Wikipedians of Esperanza. Moreschi 17:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Delete

message: I hereby move, as a member of the Esperanza Club, that on December 31, 2006, at 11:59:59, the Charter expire, and set place for the creation of a new one, to be written by the members. WikieZach| talk 01:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In amendment would be introduced to an article, then voted on. Since I am well knowledged in this area of politics, I would remain neutral and help with the process. The Current Charter's expiration time could be extended, but only for the new charter to be written. WikieZach| talk 02:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I second the motion, and ask if there are any objections WikieZach| talk 02:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Also support but make earlier Its over a month, thats too long. If we are to sort this out we need to strike while the iron is hot and do it by the end of November • The Giant Puffin • 19:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Because it's so old. We need to scrap it, may be small changes will be made. The same happened with the Articles of Confederation, and they made the Constitution. All the small little debates are worthless. They are going so slowly, without any sign of an end. Let us change the charter, with a strict timeframe, so that things can be done quickly. If we continue at our slow pace, we may never get the major overhaul some of us want. Let us continue the vote. WikieZach| talk 03:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Let's just write the darn page already eh? :-) I made a very fugly start, see if you can edit it into shape! :-) Kim Bruning 03:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Pardon my ignorance as well, but has anyone looked at this page before? Those who haven't should really give it a look, because there is already some good ideas for an new charter there. Thε Halo Θ 11:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Constitutional Convention 

message: ...why not just rewrite the charter, as was already being discussed?  What is the purpose of all these motions? Why are you putting someone officially in charge of running an official discussion? -- SCZenz 02:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it's so old. We need to scrap it, may be small changes will be made. The same happened with the Articles of Confederation, and they made the Constitution. All the small little debates are worthless. They are going so slowly, without any sign of an end. Let us change the charter, with a strict timeframe, so that things can be done quickly. If we continue at our slow pace, we may never get the major overhaul some of us want. Let us continue the vote. WikieZach| talk 03:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Let's just write the darn page already eh? :-) I made a very fugly start, see if you can edit it into shape! :-) Kim Bruning 03:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Pardon my ignorance as well, but has anyone looked at this page before? Those who haven't should really give it a look, because there is already some good ideas for an new charter there. Thε Halo Θ 11:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pardon my ignorance, but... 

message: Esperanza just took a major hit.  Half its programs have disappeared!  Don't you think we should be focused on repairing the damage and restoring those programs?
First of all, is there another wiki upon which the programs can be hosted?  Then the deleted pages complete with their histories could be transwikied there.  
There's no reason why Esperanza couldn't run any type of program it sees fit.  We just have to think outside the box!  There are lots of wikis.  A link is a just a link, the server that hosts the page linked to is beside the point.  The important thing is for the pages to exist!
Also, why is Esperanza limited to Wikipedia?  It seems to me that its resources and support would compound and synergize if all the Wikimedia projects were included.  Perhaps Esperanza could find a centralized location, to which each wiki's Esperanza branch would feed into.  The centralized HQ could host all the programs that were in danger of being deleted on any particular wiki.  Increased cross-communication between these wikis could only be a good thing.  Who knows what will be learned or what resources will emerge from it?  Sharing cool ideas and features?  New programs?  Better integration?  Anything could happen.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.  Esperanza was subject to deletion, and that is still the case.  If Esperanza's programs are not safe on Wikipedia, then the only sensible thing to do is find a place for them that is safe.  And, all of Esperanza's programs should be backed-up on a regular basis (complete with edit histories - is that possible?).
This is Esperanza.  Esperanza = hope.  Esperanzans don't give in to despair (because hope defeats despair), and we don't give up!
I have some questions:  does anyone have a copy of Wikipedia?  Does the download come with the Wikipedia namespace?  Let's get our programs back!
Of all the Wikimedia Foundation wikis, which one is best suited for hosting Esperanza?  The membership there is who we should be opening discussions with.  And if we have to go further afield, then let's explore the options.
Come on!  Where there's an organization called "Esperanza", there's hope.  Hope provides a reason, a will.  And where there's a will, there's a way.  Let hope lead the way.
I hope we can get our programs back.  If enough of us hope this, then we will make it happen.
I look forward to your replies.    The Transhumanist   03:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That was a great way of giving us the "pep talk" we needed. Unfortunately, by looking at the recent MfDs, not much people of the Wikipedia community supported our programs. Also, no one here has the full copy of Wikipedia. Doing so would require plenty of memory. Admins can always look at any version of any page, however.--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 03:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The programs were deleted for a reason. More importantly, they were deleted by Esperanzans. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 10:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're talking about the coffee lounge, and the coffee lounge games, there was a discussion about setting them up on wikia, which I'm not sure is part of the foundation. However, bringing Esperanza in the state it was in before we began the reform to any other foundation site (wikiquote, for example), would be a big mistake. Barnstar brigade and UPA were deleted because they no longer served Wikipedia in a possitive way, therefore they didn't serve Epseranza in a possitive way either. It's important to keep in mind that Esperanza is just a part of Wikipedia, not the other way round. Regards, Thε Halo Θ 16:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Per The Halo (hey, don't I always?). The words "gaming the system" rise to mind. The point is that large chunks of those programs weren't helping and may even have been harming the encyclopaedia - so yes, they should stay gone! Moreschi 16:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Its not like the programs were speedied in a MfD. They were deleted because they were obselete and/or not needed anymore. They were deleted by Esperanzians. Theres no point in restoring stuff that just got deleted by our own members for good reasons. I think we should focus on making what we have left worthwhile, and maybe making new programmes that are truly useful to the whole of Wikipedia, not just Esperanza members - • The Giant Puffin • 21:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repairing the damage