Talk:Cuyahoga River

message: Rather than do a revert the article myself I figured I'd start a discussion about the Cuyahoga River as a boundary.  While it and the Portage Path are often described as the western boundary of the US at that time, they were actually the western boundary of the area for European settlers.  The portion to the west was for the Indians.  It was all part of the Northwest territory that was part of the settlement with the British at the end of the Revolutionary War.  --Beirne 00:07, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
:You are correct, sir. The idea that the Treaty of Greenville established the Cuyahoga has the western boundary of the United States originates from a misreading of the treaty text. The treaty states in its Article 5:
To prevent any misunderstanding about the Indian lands relinquished by the United States in the fourth article, it is now explicitly declared, that the meaning of that relinquishment is this: the Indian tribes who have a right to those lands, are quietly to enjoy them, hunting, planting, and dwelling thereon, so long as they please, without any molestation from the United States; but when those tribes, or any of them, shall be disposed to sell their lands, or any part of them, they are to be sold only to the United States; and until such sale, the United States will protect all the said Indian tribes in the quiet enjoyment of their lands against all citizens of the United States, and against all other white persons who intrude upon the same. And the said Indian tribes again acknowledge themselves to be under the protection of the said United States, and no other power whatever.
: In other words, the United States did not relinquish sovereignty over the Indian lands (they couldn't, for instance, make a treaty with Great Britain for protection), but rather, created the first "insular areas" of the United States by giving local control to a non-state government, and forbidding white settlement. Kbrooks 20:23, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Boundary

message: Just passing through, but I noticed that a passage in this article is identical to a passage on an EPA webpage -  http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/aoc/cuyahoga.html 
EPA site:
The Cuyahoga River is located in northeast Ohio. It begins its 100-mile journey in Geauga County, then flows south to Cuyahoga Falls where it turns sharply north until it empties into Lake Erie. The river drains 813 square miles of land in portions of six counties. Native Americans referred to the U-shaped river as the Cuyahoga or "crooked river."
Fires plagued the Cuyahoga beginning in 1936 when a spark from a blow torch ignited floating debris and oils. Fires erupted on the river several more times before June 22, 1969, when a river fire captured national attention when Time magazine described the Cuyahoga as the river that "oozes rather than flows" and in which a person "does not drown but decays." This event helped spur an avalanche of pollution control activities resulting in the Clean Water Act, Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement, and the creation of the federal and state Environmental Protection Agencies.
Wikipedia: 
The Cuyahoga River is located in Northeast Ohio. It begins its 100 mile (160 km) journey in Geauga County, then flows south to Cuyahoga Falls where it turns sharply north and runs through Cleveland until it empties into Lake Erie. It also flows through the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, established in 2000 from the Cuyahoga National Recreation Area, which was protected in 1974. The river drains 813 square miles (2,105 km²) of land in portions of six counties. Native Americans referred to the U-shaped river as the Cuyahoga or "crooked river".
....
Fires plagued the Cuyahoga beginning in 1936 when a spark from a blow torch ignited floating debris and oils. Fires erupted on the river several more times before June 22, 1969, when a river fire captured national attention when Time magazine described the Cuyahoga as the river that "oozes rather than flows" and in which a person "does not drown but decays". This event helped spur an avalanche of pollution control activities resulting in the Clean Water Act, Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement, and the creation of the federal and state Environmental Protection Agency.
Anyway, figured it couldn't hurt to bring it to someone's attention.
70.25.208.177 05:06, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. Since the Ohio EPA is a public agency, I don't think this necessarily fits the definition of "plagiarism." The EPA website isn't copyrighted, as far as I can tell. Anyone else have any legal knowledge that bears on this issue?--RattBoy 02:31, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Plagiarism and coypright violation are two completely separate issues. Plagiarism is an ethical matter of copying another's work without giving due credit. Copyright is a legal matter. It may be "legal" to copy text in the public domain (as works of U.S. government agencies are), but it is very dubious ethics to not credit the source of material used. And WP:CITE is a widely accepted guideline for articles. older≠wiser 03:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone's copying word-for-word... 

message: There appear to be no bridge fans in Cleveland.  Is this true?  A number of rivers have these things called "bridges" and "ferrys" and even "tunnels".  As a result, various Wikipedians have created "List of crossings" articles, such as List of crossings of the Columbia River, List of crossings of the Rivière des Prairies, List of crossings of the River Thames, List of crossings of the Connecticut River, and many others.  I'm not in the Cleveland area, but maybe I could get y'all started on this using Yahoo maps.  What say you?   Let's see.... List of crossings of the Cuyahoga River - Denimadept (talk) 21:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No crossings? 

message: I moved the WikiTables to the bottom of the article,
thus moving the other text up higher.
I added the appropriate CSS class="collapsible" so that they can be collapsed,
If other contributors desire, another CSS class="collapsed" can be added which collapses them by default.
LeheckaG (talk) 20:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tables 

message: Somebody clearly put a lot of work into the elevation graphic, which is pretty cool. However, I think it is far too dominant for the article -- it takes up a massive amount of space. What to do? It could be converted into a graphic and included as a thumbnail…or it could be moved to a sub-article like tributaries of the Cuyahoga River…thoughts? -Pete (talk) 18:05, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elevation graphic 

message: Please see Talk:Cuyahoga#Pronunciation. Mapsax (talk) 23:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: I don't think the Cuyahoga is the only river to catch fire, just the most infamous. Is there any justification to there being a river fire article? If it's known by another name, I couldn't immediately find what it's called.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.254.80.115 (talk) 04:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I was surprised as well -- the 1969 fire in particular is globally infamous, and there is almost no information on it. It probably does not need a separate article, but it definitely needs expansion here. If there is so little information because it touches a nerve, think of it as the pivotal point when things started changing for the better.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.157.81 (talk) 00:12, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  More info on [[river fire]]s? 

message: Copied from User talk:Wetman (Wetman (talk) 23:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like just one branch to me. - Denimadept (talk) 23:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't jibe with the article's assertion that the Cuyahoga River begins where the two branches join. If the caption were to read "Cuyahoga and Upper Cuyahoga watershed" that wouldn't be quite correct either. The narrowing of the watershed downstream suggests interesting paleogeography here. Not that I'm competent to summarise it... Let me copy this to Talk:Cuyahoga River. --Wetman (talk) 23:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Kmusser made the map. I'm sure he'd make whatever adjustments are needed. His to-do list can be pretty long, but he's a trooper and keeps plugging along! Remember to tell him how awesome a Wikipedian he is. :-) Pfly (talk) 01:46, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

text: Also, on the origin coordinates I took a look at the source coordinates in ACME Mapper's USGS topo map view. At the highest quality zoomed-in scale the river seems to be labeled simply "Cuyahoga River" above and below the source point. If you zoom out until the topo map switches to the next lower resolution map, then the branches are labeled West and East. Weird. I'm not saying anything is wrong here, just it struck me as odd. At first I thought there was a mistake, looking only at the zoomed-in topos. Could it be that the East Branch is sometimes considered the main stem? ...hmm, perhaps so... I note  says a variant name is "Cuyahoga River". Maybe Kmusser's data has the East Branch as the main stem. Pfly (talk) 02:00, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: All I know is that when I was tracing the river upstream to make List of crossings of the Cuyahoga River, the satellite imagery for the upper bit was crap.  From this map, it does look like the east branch is considered the main river. - Denimadept (talk) 03:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like the imagery has improved a lot!! - Denimadept (talk) 03:05, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

text: I'll take a look, that I'm showing the east branch as the main river seems likely, I'll get the west branch added on there. Kmusser (talk) 18:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I might have been acting like a typical Wikipedia: demanding more consistency than exists. I'm not competent here: all I can do is make tiresome noises, but the article is so good and so well put together. --Wetman (talk) 19:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice map of tributaries and their watersheds here (also pages with info on the 25 of so tributaries shown--looks useful). This site distinguishes the east and west branches. They both seem fairly short compared to Tinkers Creek, Breakneck Creek, and the Little Cuyahoga River. I was a little surprised to see no page for the Little Cuyahoga River, but perhaps it is not as significant as its name suggests. Pfly (talk) 19:54, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

text: OK, it's not a quick fix - the data source I used (National Atlas) has the east branch as the main stem and doesn't have the west branch at all. To correct I'd need to remake the map using better data.  I'll put it on the to do list and I could add the other major tribs while I'm at it.  Kmusser (talk) 20:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

text: New and improved map is done. Kmusser (talk) 23:59, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: suh-weet! - Denimadept (talk) 03:40, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cuyahoga River]] map 

message: The section about the 1969 river fire has almost no information about the fire, is there no information available?  Can't someone check Life magazine or something?
Before you jump down my throat, re-read it.  It discussed a report from a year before the fire.  It discusses other fires in the past.  It mentions how policy changed because of the fire, after the fire happened.  But there is nothing in this page about the event of the fire.  For example, where was it?  Clearly the whole river from end to end wasn't on fire.  How long did it burn?  Just on June 22nd?  Were there photos?
It just seems that the 1969 fire is mentioned repeatedly as a significant event that lead to songs, policy, and other changes.  And somewhat predicted.  But there is almost no information about the actual event itself.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.176.58.148 (talk) 06:54, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome to find and post about the fire in 1969 and any of the other ones. - Denimadept (talk) 23:48, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  1969 Fire? 

message: In the Environmental Concerns subsection under history, it is written that cooling water being dumped into the river warmed it by -9 degrees Celsius. I'm guessing that this was the result of a quick conversion from the Fahrenheit scale, but seeing as it comes from another text I was wondering if it was there because it was copied verbatim from the source. Does this matter? Sunghail (talk) 07:09, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Error with Temperature 

message: In the "Environmental concerns" section, there is an error in the text, quote: "water increases the temperature by 10 to 15 °F (−9 °C)."  As this is an interval temperature (rather than a scale) this should be stated as a "6-8 °C increase" instead of being converted to the scale temperature of -9 °C.  I did not correct this because it is not clear if the -9 is from the original symposium text or if it was added as part of the article.  If the former, the correction should be added as an editing note; if the latter, the text should be changed to an editing note and corrected.   — CoyneT talk 02:54, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.  It was an error in usage of . - Denimadept (talk) 05:07, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Error in Kent State University symposium text quote 

message: Footnote 12 links to a PDF source behind a pay wall. I found an open copy of this source, but I do not know how to edit it, as this set of References isn't editable on the page (called Reflist|30em). The link I would ask to replace the existing one is here. wbm (talk) 01:44, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ref 12 is  here.  It shows up at the  template, but that's not its source. - Denimadept (talk) 03:00, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! wbm (talk) 03:35, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Footnote behind pay wall

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Cuyahoga River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070311000000/http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/water/watersheds/Basins72PDI_40x40_OnScreen.gif to http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/water/watersheds/Basins72PDI_40x40_OnScreen.gif
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051107205558/http://www.newsnet5.com:80/news/4968685/detail.html to http://www.newsnet5.com/news/4968685/detail.html
*Added  tag to http://www.journal-news.com/local/content/gen/ap/OH_Cuyahoga_River_Dams.html
*Added  tag to http://www.journal-news.com/local/content/gen/ap/OH_Cuyahoga_River_Dams.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:55, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Cuyahoga River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110724033050/http://www.crcpo.org/AHRBROCHURES/AHRBrochure.pdf to http://www.crcpo.org/AHRBROCHURES/AHRBrochure.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050912061515/http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/documents/cuyvol1.pdf to http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/documents/cuyvol1.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070819022730/http://www.fallsnewspress.com:80/news/article/2074781 to http://www.fallsnewspress.com/news/article/2074781
*Added  tag to http://www.fallsnewspress.com/news/article/5207513
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120124215434/http://www.fallsnewspress.com/news/article/5128097 to http://www.fallsnewspress.com/news/article/5128097
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090627161123/http://www.crcpo.org:80/FurnaceRun/FurnaceRun.html to http://www.crcpo.org/FurnaceRun/FurnaceRun.html
*Added  tag to http://www.fallsnewspress.com/article.php?pathToFile=/archive/05172004/news/&file=_news2.txt&article=1
*Added  tag to http://www.fallsnewspress.com/article.php?pathToFile=/archive/07182005/news/&file=_news1.txt&article=1
*Added  tag to http://www.fallsnewspress.com/article.php?pathToFile=/archive/07252005/news/&file=_news8.txt&article=1
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070819022730/http://www.fallsnewspress.com:80/news/article/2074781 to http://www.fallsnewspress.com/news/article/2074781
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:56, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 9 external links on Cuyahoga River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090512221443/http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/tmdl/upCuy_final_090304.pdf to http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/tmdl/upCuy_final_090304.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070705045516/http://www.kentenvironment.org/05_06_newsletter.pdf to http://www.kentenvironment.org/05_06_newsletter.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.fallsnewspress.com/news/article/2074781
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080912182540/http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/tmdl/Cuyahoga_lower_final_report.pdf to http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/tmdl/Cuyahoga_lower_final_report.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080912182525/http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/tmdl/MidCuyFinalTMDL.pdf to http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/tmdl/MidCuyFinalTMDL.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.crcpo.org/FurnaceRun/FurnaceRun.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080912182539/http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/tmdl/Cuyahoga_lower_final_appD.pdf to http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/tmdl/Cuyahoga_lower_final_appD.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.fallsnewspress.com/news/article/2074781
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20041213144505/http://cuyahogavalley.net/ to http://www.cuyahogavalley.net/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:59, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Cuyahoga River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070822124606/http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?%2Fbase%2Fsummit%2F1141292380138340.xml&coll=2 to http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?%2Fbase%2Fsummit%2F1141292380138340.xml&coll=2
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090415143030/http://www.cleveland.com/river/ to http://www.cleveland.com/river/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:17, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Cuyahoga River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050406024023/http://www.co.summit.oh.us/executive/mfd/mfdhome.htm to http://www.co.summit.oh.us/executive/mfd/mfdhome.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:31, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Several references have broken links. For some of these, it may be possible to substitute an archived page. For example, the article has this sentence and reference:
  The largest river fire in 1952 caused over $1 million in damage to boats, a bridge, and a riverfront office building. 
There is an archived copy at https://19january2017snapshot.epa.gov/cuyahoga-river-aoc/about-cuyahoga-river-aoc_.html . 
Here is another example. The article has this:
 
 Two dams in Cuyahoga Falls, the Sheraton and LeFever Dams, were scheduled for demolition in late 2012. . 
There is an archived copy at https://www.mytownneo.com/news/20120803/dismantling-of-dams-along-cuyahoga-river-to-get-under-way-in-september .
Note that the EPA archived page is not actually hosted by the EPA. It was created as an effort to preserve EPA documents when it was feared political changes could result in the loss of EPA documents. SlowJog (talk) 17:02, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken links might be fixable with archived copies