Talk:Wiedergutmachung

message: I would like to see sources for these statements made in the article:
*As of the mid 1980s nearly 5 million claims had been filed and paid.
*Nearly all of the claims were from USA and Israel.
*People have been imprisoned and lost their careers for just bringing up such issues in a public forum.
*Projections were being made that by year 2005 more than 7 million claims will be filed.
I would also like to see sources that verify whether these questions have been raised:
#The statistics does not add up with the total number of Jews in Europe (or even perhaps in the whole world) at the time of WW-II (for instance, if 6 million perished in WW-II and another 6 million filed for Wiedergutmachungsgeld, that is already 12 million)
#Why has the number of claims increased instead of decreased?
#Why are the claims filed in USA and Israeli courts and not in German courts?
#Why did so many victims wait until now 50 to 60 years after the end of WW-II to file for Widergutmachung (and other claims for reparations)?
Where have these questions been raised, and by whom? Thanks, silsor 20:43, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
:Indeed, I was coming to this Talk: page to ask these exact question.  As of now, the article is entirely unsourced, and appears to have many POV issues as well. Jayjg (talk) 20:59, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed with above.  These claims seriously need sources. Isomorphic 21:08, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello to all.  Unfortunately in Germany there is a federal law that even discussing, let alone publishing, any such issues instantly constitutes a punishable federal offence, including jail.  Indeed a number of people who were most definitely NOT Neo-Nazi's or even Nazi-sympaths, have been severely punished, including cases of imprisonement.  I am afraid, the only published sources that I can refer you on this, would be what would immediately put a big label of "neo-nazi", "anit-semite" or "holocaust denier" on my forehead. If you do even a minimum bit of fair and objective search, you can determine if what I wrote contains truth or not.  --JoergenF 21:25, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Usually authors of articles have to provide the sources; others may not know where they are, or how to find them. Jayjg (talk) 21:31, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: You are not being labeled, but you'll have to back up your statements (see my concerns below). JFW | T@lk 21:29, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely if people are being put in jail for discussing Wiedergutmachung in Germany, there would be some public records of the court proceedings, convictions, and sentencing of these people. If this were the case, it would surely be a matter of critical importance to this article, and several other articles I can think of (like, say, Censorship). However, it would need to have sources cited. Without that, Wikipedia has to regard the claim as an utterly unproven allegation. --FOo 01:12, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: I point out that if there is indeed a German law that prohibits JoergenF from citing the sources for the questions he had in the article text earlier, that same law likely would also have prohibited him from putting the questions themselves in the article in the first place.   This mysterious law seems quite bizarre if it allows one to report in an encyclopedia article that certain questions are being asked about the Wiedergutmachung, but prohibits one from specifying who is asking them, when, where, etc. --BM 02:11, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: 1) The statistics does not add up with the total number of Jews in Europe (or even perhaps in the whole world) at the time of WW-II (for instance, if 6 million perished in WW-II and another 6 million filed for Wiedergutmachungsgeld, that is already 12 million)
:Wiedergutmachungsgeld is payable to any victim of Nazi persecution -- not just Jewish victims. There are a considerable number of Gentile victims when we include forced labourers and victims of the Gestapo in the occupied countries of Western Europe.
2) Why has the number of claims increased instead of decreased?
: These were traumatic events.  People have taken years to come to terms with them to the extent that they can actually consider speaking about them to a tribunal or court of law. No doubt there are those who still require more time to do so. Because of this human characteristic, claims would be expected to start slowly and build over the years. In addition many of the claimants were children or young adults during the 1950s and 1960s and would have been unable to decide to claim at the time, or would have had other priorities.
3) Why are the claims filed in USA and Israeli courts and not in German courts?
:Because of agreements made between the governments of the three countries to make it easier for victims to sue.
4) Why did so many victims wait until now 50 to 60 years after the end of WW-II to file for Widergutmachung (and other claims for reparations)?
:See the answer to question two. Also note that people's self confidence tends to become greater as they become older.  They also have more free time after they have retired from working and so can afford to follow up on a claim which they may have been putting off for years.
These are the common sense answers. I don't have any sources for them though so they don't belong in the article. -- Derek Ross |  Talk 00:30, 2005 Feb 8 (UTC)
The (rethoric and secret) questions seem to have originated here Palestine-info 02:25, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Dab, this is encyclopedic. It is an example of the way Germany addressed the needs of Holocaust survivors, and has gone a long way into improving living conditions for those who had difficulty adapting in Israel/the USA etc. Some survivors have refused Wiedergutmachung, calling it a betrayal and an insult to the memory of lost family members. JFW | T@lk 21:34, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Commonsense answers to the questions

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