Talk:Kilmarnock

message: With the deepest respect, the section on Economic Blight reintroduced by Demonblade is not NPOV and falls foul of the site rules and does not meet the normal standards of Wiki.  In particular it:
- fails toplace the economic decline within an appropriate context which would, in turn, provide readers with a full understanding.
- makes value judgements regarding the quality of the 1970s regeneration efforts which, regardless of their accuracy, have no place in Wiki.
- does not properly explain the role that planning blight had in the redevelopment of Portland Street, concentrating instead on the decline it caused.
- includes unsupported assertions regarding the views of the townspeople
- contains factual errors;  the HS CARS scheme for the town centre has been approved and the HLF THI scheme is due for determination shortly;  it also overlooks the TCLI scheme.
Unless anyone has any substantive comments, I would intend to revert to the changes I made earlier today.
--MacLeod 15:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no doubt that the Portland Street section of town was basically a screwup for many years.  While the rest of the redevelopment had met a mixed reception, some good, some bad from Kilmarnock Cross down to Titchfield Street, Portland St declined sharply.  I think a number of factors contributed here.  For one, the bus station used to be a busy point, when it was closed it affected passing trade.  The market kept a lot of passing trade but shops declined.  The area did become more unkempt looking, and the fire which levelled Bambers did nothing to help.  Face it, Portland St lay essentially derelict for a number of years before the rebuilding started and the regeneration doesn't seem to have brought back any prosperity there. Douglasnicol 15:12, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did try to rewrite the urban blight section regarding Portland St to be a bit more NPOV.  If you don't know the place well its a bit hard to describe, but I have emphasised as well that the 'chain store makeover' is not a factor unique to Kilmarnock. Douglasnicol 11:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I think though that Portland Street suffered from a variety of factors which lead to it being derelict for so long.  I don't know how much was possible bureacracy from the Council delaying things.  Douglasnicol 15:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Economic Blight, Etc.

message: It may be helpfull if we could discuss ideas for expanding the Kilmarnock article here. Douglas Nicol has made many valuable contributions. Similarly Steven Milloy has contributed as well. If you have knowledge of Kilmarnock, perhaps about it's history or early developement, then contribute and grow the article.
:It's great to see this page expanding - I'll try to add some history. In the meantime, could one of you in Kilmarnock take some pictures, maybe in sunshine? Church, Dick Institute, park, shopping centre... Mark Nesbitt 12:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the praise, one reason I have a decent knowledge of Kilmarnock, is my Mum is Kilmarnock born and still remembers much of the old layout of the town prior to development.  I've also got the two books that are listed in the Further Reading category. Douglasnicol 13:47, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Hi Steven - feel free to email me pics at mark.nesbitt {at} gmail.com It's easy but somewhat time-consuming to upload and place pics, so I'm happy to divide the work. I don't know Kilmarnock so will need short captions. Assume you are happy to release pics to public domain - allows greatest flexibility in use (eg in other wikis). Thanks MarkMark Nesbitt 21:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article expansion

message: Here's a question, I'm sure any savvy people that know Kilmarnock are aware that BMK was an acronym for Blackwood & Mortons Kilmarnock.  What I'd like to know is that there was a woollen factory in Western Road run by a company called Blackwood Brothers, they also at one time owned the former mill in Kilwinning.  Any connection between the two companies? Douglasnicol 21:05, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I had been wondering about that.  The name of Blackwoods itself isn't the most common.  Another thing, I know at one time BMK had three factories in Kilmarnock.  There's the one now largely demolished in Riccarton where Safeways and Aldi etc are, the only remaining part is an office block.  There's another one near the 'New Bellfield Tavern' on Queens Drive which is partly sublet to small businesses now, and there's that one that features in a pic in the link that has been given.  What does that third factory do now (if anything).  I also put in the info about Saxone, but I believe there is a company that still manufactures shoes in Kilmarnock near where Food Giant/Kwik Save was, though I'm not sure what they were called. Douglasnicol 18:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Any idea WHY the BMK office block was left standing for so many years after the factory was demolished? Douglasnicol 14:29, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: BMK

message: Kilmarnock had a tram system which linked it to Hurlford.  This is mentioned on the Hurlford page but not in any detail.
:One of my local history books has details on the tram system including a map of the network.  I can put in the information. Douglasnicol 23:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats some basic tram info put inDouglasnicol 14:09, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've also added a brief entry on the bus station. Douglasnicol 14:09, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trams and other transport

message: I'm concerned that the reference to the Finnies having a say in tenants of John Finnie Street might be inaccurate.  Do we have a source for it?--MacLeod 22:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have two books on Kilmarnock, the older one has quite a bit of info on the town and only mentions that the Finnies put quite a bit of financial backing into both the planning and construction of the street.  There's no mention either way of their approval being needed.  I would say that if anything has affected the quality of shops in John Finnie Street is that it is now very difficult for cars to park there, meaning a lot of what could otherwise be passing trade is lost, however, that's just conjecture. Douglasnicol 11:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: JOHN FINNIE STREET

message: I'm worried about the content of this section: 
*"This decline has its origins" -- can you justify that? 
*"in a disastrous 'redevelopment'" -- what was disastrous about it, pov?
*"fine buildings make way for a 'concrete jungle'." -- pov, again?? 
*"old sturdy Victorian and Edwardian buildings were replaced by characterless flat roofed retail units." -- Again this doesn't seem to be neutral at all.
It seems like this only discusses one point of view and without reference. While I'm certainly no fan of Kilmarnock town centre (and I'm too young to remember the "old sturdy Victorian and Edwardian buildings") I'd like to see at least a reference for this stuff and possibly some more positive statements (if they can be made!!) about the area. OoberMick 19:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economic depression and urban blight, npov? 

message: I started this section, and would be interested to hear the other contributors viewpoints.  Should the Notable people be limited to those who were born in Kilmarnock, such as Margaret McDowell and the McIllvaneys, or should it also include those who were not born there but are residents there, or have been residents?  Some town entries in Wiki include famous residents, others limit it to those born there. Opinions?  Douglasnicol 15:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Des Browne?  He is the MP for Kilmarnock, but he is neither born, brought up, or is resident there, shouldn't this be removed? Douglasnicol (talk) 16:00, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable People Discussion

message: To whoever removed the Portland St pic, and left the rather snide comment, you miss the point.  Portland St now may not be a main shopping street, but it WAS.  The main shopping streets of Kilmarnock prior to the extensive redevelopment were Portland St, King Street and Titchfield St.  People unfamiliar with the town often group them together as one street.  Oh, and BTW, it wasn't me who uploaded the pic, in case you think I have an ulterior motive.  I've reinserted the picture, but I've recaptioned it to make it NPOV. Douglasnicol 14:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of Portland St pic

message: Just wondering what the source is for the population of Kilmarnock (60,000)?
The East Ayrshire Council website has a pdf  detailing the 2001 census figures, and states a population of 43,588. Which figure is correct? 
AllanMcD 12:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Population

message: Recent edits implied that the now relatively short commute time to Glasgow is having a positive impact on the housing market. Can we get that backed up with sources? Is there any historical data available on housing prices in Kilmarnock and Scotland as a whole, to provide a baseline? Also, how does the train work for commuters - is their commute time comparable to that of drivers on the 77? MrZaiustalk 19:50, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Commute time and housing prices

message: I have tried to add both My First Cult and My First Music on several occasions and met with at best animosity or sheer rejection. We are vital to the regeneration of music in the area and would like at least some feedback on why we are constantly excluded. If you need further information regarding our activities then we are willing to help you out.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.12.20.198 (talk) 00:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  My First Cult / My First Music 

message: I'm not against this section, but in my opinion at least, it looks really untidy.  It needs a few things, some clarification for one on some of the places of interest, maybe a seperate article on the Burns Monument including how it got into such a state.  Secondly, something like the Clydesdale Bank, what one, there are at least two, if I remember right, Clydesdale Bank buildings, the one in Riccarton near the former Safeways, and the one one near the multi-storey carpark. Douglasnicol (talk) 14:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Landmarks section

message: Kilmarnock Cross currently gives no context and little real encyclopedic info. I am suggesting that it is merged back here. I have also PRODed James Shaw Statue as being non notable - it doesn't even say who James Shaw was. Again it could be mentioned in the main article but doesn't appear worthy of a separate page. Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 09:16, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See reply at Talk:James Shaw Statue. Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 09:41, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge tag 

message: An inexperienced editor, Hurlfordkillie, has recently made lots of edits to the article, introducing some fairly major stylistic problems such as including the text "Editing Kilmarnock (section) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" in the article. They've also added a map of the UK (?), some low-quality images, opening times for local attractions, etc. I'm reverting all of their edits because the article is now a mess. Some of it might be salvageable but I don't have the time for that now, so if anyone objects they can use the article history to restore useful edits. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:21, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry to be unlcear. I was referring to User:Hurlfordkillie. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:38, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Who has now been blocked as a sockpuppet. Cordless Larry (talk) 05:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Is the image showing Kilmarnocks weather in May really relevant? Douglasnicol (talk) 08:35, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I struggle to see any relevance to the Kilmarnock page. I also think the quality of some "in-car-shots" need discussed as they may detract from the over all quality of the page (Mccarthystumble (talk) 13:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent edits

message: propose setting up a section detailing the Outstanding Conservation Area or should it be incorporated into an existing article? Here is a link to some info on the matter and it's current progress KILMARNOCK TOWNSCAPE HERITAGE INITIATIVE (Mccarthystumble (talk) 13:52, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Outstanding Conservation Area

message: I feel this page should be unprotected --Mixedupworld (talk) 16:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless it was fully protected, it wouldn't help prevent any disruptive editing from registered users, such as happened today at Scotland and which resulted in you being blocked for 31 hours. Full protection would prevent any registered users from editing it. Far better to await the sockpuppetry investigation's decision and then take action (see  Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Nimbley6 (4th).) Unprotecting it would leave the article open to vandalism by unregistered users, including registered users who would like to evade a block. The possibility exists, and so–Request denied at this time.  DDStretch  (talk) 17:41, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

text: It is not going to be unprotected by myself yet. The actions on Scotland this evening have shown that it would currently be unwise. Also, your over-use of the same heading in consecutive sectuions on this talk page (removed by myself) which is similar to some possibly disruptive editing by yourself on Scotland sow that it would be protective not to just yet.  DDStretch  (talk) 22:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This page: Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Nimbley6 (4th) also means it would be currently unwise to unprotect, and I propose to wait until a result of that investigation is posted, and then I will review the matter.  DDStretch  (talk) 22:56, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: Add you requests for images to be placed in the article here, by adding an image link, the caption you would like, and where you would like it to be added in the article.  DDStretch  (talk) 23:38, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Martin's been blocked for evading a block via 'sock-puppetry'. GoodDay (talk) 23:57, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Already onto it. I did think I was being particularly accommodating in assuming good faith, but given we're spawn of the devil if we aren't in some quarters, that's that.  DDStretch  (talk) 00:00, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Actually, since (a) your comment above indicates that you were the person who added the first photo, though (b) using the anon address, 78.146.78.46. And, (c) further, since 78.146.78.46 was User:WalkingTelephone |(evidence seen by looking at the editing history of User talk:WalkingTelephone), and (d) User:WalkingTelephone was banned because of sockpuppetry involving User:Jack forbes, who has been disruptive, then I am not going to add any of these photos until the position is further clarified.  DDStretch  (talk) 12:15, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo Placement Request

message: The first paragraph of this article incorrectly refers to Kilmarnock as the "largest town in Ayrshire" when the largest town is actually Ayr.  According to the 2001 census Kilmarnock had a population of 43,588 whereas Ayr had a population of 46,431.  It is highly unlikely that Kilmarnock has somehow managed a population gain of around 3,000 on Ayr in the past seven years.  The populations can be compared at Scottish Government census 2001 results website:
http://www.scrol.gov.uk/scrol/browser/profile.jsp?profile=Population&mainLevel=Locality&mainText=Kilmarnock&mainTextExplicitMatch=null&compLevel=Locality&compText=ayr&compTextExplicitMatch=false  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.24.8 (talk) 02:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect population facts 

message: I'm not to sure about the correct Gaelic placename, but at least there should be an "h" in it. So I changed it from Cill Meàrnaig to Chill Mheàrnaig.Other versions I found use the following versions:
*Cill Mheàrnaig.  Akerbeltz Dictionary
*Cill Mhearnaig  Placenames collected by Iain Mac an Tailleir,  SMO
*Cill Mheàrnag Gaelic-Engish Dictionary Colin Mark,  , page  728
*Cill-mheàrnag Edward Dwelly, Illustrated Gaelic-English Dictionary, Birlinn Limited,  2001, , page 2018
But maybe someone else has some better sources. --Sionnach 08:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaelic place name? 

message: The information added to the listing of schools is misleading, mainly since Kirkstyle is unlikely to be regarded as 'fairly new' when it existed in 1959, being built much earlier than Bellfield.  The reference to head teachers is nice but stating a month of retirement without the relevant year seems unhelpful and is especially out of sequence since no other school lists staff details like this. Bobinscotland (talk) 20:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  KIRKSTYLE Primary School 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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