Talk:No. 450 Squadron RAAF

message: Hi guys, per converstion with Rupert on my talk page, I just want to note some things here and perhaps kick off further dicussion:
*Stopping by the Mitchell Library yesterday, I verified all the uncited material I could via the RAAF Historical Section’s Units of the RAAF and Eather's Flying Squadrons, and it looks to me that information in the WP article that's not in either of them has also now been cited, which is great.
*Units disagrees with Brown re. total claims in North Africa, so if I can I'll look at those side by side and check any other figures I can find.
*I'm also a bit surprised by the implication in the infobox that two squadron codes were in use simultaneously between December 1941 and April 1942, although the one cited source I've checked, Combat Codes, does indeed imply this. The AWM squadron codes page however says "DJ" in 1941 only and "OK" in 1942-45" only, which is more what I'd expect, so I might investigate that further as well...
*I think we should minimise use of the squadron association website and cite things to more obviously reliable sources (e.g. Eather, Units, official history) where we can -- I'm happy to look into this.
*The article takes some pains to put 450's operations in the context of the rest of the Desert Air Force and 1st Tactical Air Force, which is fine, but it could use some broader sourcing to verify that picture. I'm familiar with at least one such book at the Mitchell, , and might be able to dig out some others.
*I'd like to put in a little material that I've come across while writing about Steege, mainly the difficulties he experienced just getting the squadron flying in the early days.
*As mentioned to Rupert, I have at least one photo of the period featuring the squadron ops room/tent that I'll scan for the article.
*On the formatting side, I think the sections below the prose history could be tidied just a little bit, though I know they're common to other Article XV squadron articles.
*Even allowing for the above, it looks quite close to B-Class now, and some (perhaps most) of what I've mentioned could possibly wait until after that and a run at GA or maybe even A-Class. Thoughts? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:28, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi mate, I haven't used the ops room one (not yet at least owing to spacing -- mistook the infobox image for Europe when it fact it was N. Africa) but see what you think of the overall effect now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:25, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: G'day, Ian, that looks fine to me. Cheers. Are you happy for me to nom for GA now? Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 19:42, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry mate, busy day... Sure, by all means nom it.  From memory, adding a co-nom isn't that straightforward but happy to do it manually when you've finished the normal process. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:39, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries at all, I've nommed it now, adding a note about it being a co-nom. I think that's the way to do it, but if there is another way, please adjust. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:19, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article improvement 

message: As a suggestion for further development of the article, it might be worth noting that the Royal Canadian Air Force subsequently formed a 450 Squadron, despite this being a RAAF unit, and this unit remains active today. The RCAF says that this occurred as a result of an administrative error, and it appears to have been decided to retain the designation to mark the links between the RAAF and RCAF ( says that the RCAF received permission to keep the number). Apparently there was a relationship between the No. 450 Squadron RAAF association and the Canadian squadron: . I guess this rules out the squadron being re-formed as part of the current program of re-raising some of the RAAF's 400-series squadrons. Nick-D (talk) 10:27, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Fascinating, I never knew that -- tks Nick! cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:17, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that info, Nick, that is fascinating. We should definately include something about this prior to ACR, potentially in a "legacy" section? Anyway, I'm pretty keen to continue work on this while we have some momentum (plus after 25 Dec I will probably not have much time for Wikipedia for a few months - moving/posting/courses etc) so if possible I'd like to nom for ACR in the next two weeks. Ian, when you get a chance would you mind listing the discrepancies you found in the sources, and I will see if I can help iron them out while I've got some free time. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 22:40, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: A Legacy section is exactly what I was thinking, Rupert.  I could add that Steege was patron of the 450SQN Association in his later years.  I'd also like to nom for ACR this month, should have time this w/e to get working on that... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:53, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

text: Added/tweaked further detail/refs. Also experimented with the images, pushing the original crest to the COs section, but of course let's discuss further. I'm thinking the shot my father had of the operations tent in N. Africa (possibly around Gambut, will check) might be good for the airfields section, and I'd like to work the shot of the damaged Kittyhawk from Italy in there too ideally -- shows how much punishment the Kittys could take and still get you home...! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:58, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers, Ian, those changes look great. I've added a little bit about the Canadian helicopter squadron, please feel free to tweak as you see fit. More than happy to add a couple of images where you think they can fit. One thing I wonder about for ACR, though, is whether the lead should be expanded to maybe two paragraphs. Thoughts? Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 21:17, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Just checking in briefly. Tks for adding the legacy section, Rupert, will read later. Yes, forgot to say that we really should have a two-para lead for ACR/FAC. I guess it could divide as formation/ME/Africa in the first para and Italy/disbandment/legacy in the second? Happy to have a go say tonight unless you want to. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:51, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for adding that, Ian. The changes look great. Sorry I didn't reply earlier, had some a bit of a medical emergency to deal with (spent the night at hospital with one of the little ones). Is there anything else you'd like to see done before an ACR? Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 19:54, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No prob, mate -- hope all well now!  The last thing I'd like to do, if you agree, is a) take one more pass at the article with Herington and the RAAF Historical Section open, and b) verify as best we can the three tables at the end (aircraft/airfields/COs). The reason I say that is that the tables were added/cited before you and I really took an interest in the article (I think) and given that the COs' terms differ somewhat from the list in the RAAF Historical Section, I'd like to try and resolve any discrepancies. As I said above, the squadron's ops record book is digitised at NAA (don't have the link handy but it wasn't hard to find before) so although I don't think we need use it as a source per se, I'd like to compare the dates it gives for items in the tables. That could be time-consuming of course, but perhaps between the two of us... :-) BTW, the ops book even says the squadron was formed on 16 February 1941, but it notes a history wasn't kept until some time after the unit arrived in the Middle East, so I think the 7 February date we've used per Barnes, Eather, etc, is probably more reliable in this instance...  Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:42, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, okay now, thanks. Yes, that sounds like a good idea. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 08:20, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canadian unit 

message: Hi Rupert, was there anything you wanted to do before making a run at FAC?  I could grab Stewart Wilson's Spitfire, Mustang and Kittyhawk in Australian Service at the Mitchell Library to see if there's more precise info on the conversion to P-51s at war's end but other than that I think we're about ready to go -- WDYT? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I just checked my copy of that book, and it doesn't have anything about No. 450 Squadron converting to Mustangs that I could see. Nick-D (talk) 00:01, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Nick. G'day, Ian, there's nothing I can think of at the moment. Sorry, I'm not going to be much use for the next three months or so. I have quite a bit on at work at the moment and on short notice I have to go away for about 12 weeks. I will most likely have my computer and internet, but my time online will potentially be inconsistent. I will try to help out if I can, though. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:38, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry Nick for not acknowledging your efforts checking that book -- must've missed the diff at the time!  Anyway, Rupert, just letting you know that I was planning to nom at FAC on our behalves in the next day or so... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:56, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: G'day, Ian, thanks. I will try to help as best I can, but don't have much time of late. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 08:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAC 

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