Talk:Old Javanese

message: I find something weird with this statement:
:Kawi uses a unique script for writing commonly called hanacaraka; the more correct term is "Dentawiyanjana". It is a syllabic alphabet consisting of 20 letters and ten numbers and a number of vowel and consonant modifiers. 
Kawi, which is considered as Old Javanese, uses Hanacaraka (Carakan script)? I know that Javanese language uses Hanacaraka (Carakan script), but I think Kawi uses its own script called Kawi script. And Kawi script is different with Javanese script (I know that because I can read Javanese script, but not Kawi script).
I look up at Kawi script page, and it's written there:
:It is also the name of the language used in these inscriptions and texts, more generally called "Old Javanese".
So I think Kawi language (Old Javanese) uses its own Kawi script (which's different with Hanacaraka), while (Modern) Javanese language uses Hanacaraka (Carakan script).
Can somebody explain this? Any linguist can check its accuracy? Thank you very much.
Yofan Pratama P (talk) 23:52, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writing system 

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=cwYJAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac00buscgoog
Rajmaan (talk) 18:13, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  German linguist's work on kawi 

message: Über die Kawi-Sprache auf der Insel Java: nebst einer Einleitung über die Verschiedenheit des menschlichen Sprachbaues und ihren Einfluss auf die geistige Entwickelung des Menschengeschlechts, Volume 3 By Wilhelm Freiherr von Humboldt, Johann Karl Eduard Buschmann
http://books.google.com/books?id=cwYJAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Über die Kawi-sprache auf der insel Java, nebst einer einleitung über die verschiedenheit des menschlichen sprachbaues und ihren einfluss auf die geistige entwickelung des menschengeschlechts (1836)
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac00buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac01buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac02buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac03buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac00unkngoog
Kawi-balineesch-nederlandsch woordenboek (1897)
https://archive.org/details/kawibalineeschn00tuukgoog
Kawi-Balineesch-Nederlandsch glossarium op het Oudjavaansche Râmâyana. Bewerkt door H.H. Juynboll. Uitg. door het Koninklijk Instituut voor de Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde van Nederlandsch-Indië (1902)
https://archive.org/details/kawibalineeschne00juynuoft
Bhrata-Yuddha; oldjavaansch heldendicht, uitg. door J.G.H. Gunning (1903)
https://archive.org/details/bhratayuddhaoldj00gunnuoft
Rajmaan (talk) 14:26, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Materials and sources on Kawi 

message: Can anybody competently describe differences between the two?
It often happens that both names are used in the same text interchangeably so there is a bit of confusion. What is their exact relation? Is kawi a diffrerent language or (as it seemms to me)an elaborated (ie sanskritized) form of Old Javanese?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.26.236.205 (talk) 14:51, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Should be answered now that I've merged the articles. I suspect that literary Kawi was more Sanskritized that the vernacular, as is typical of literary registers, but didn't say that as I don't have a source for it. — kwami (talk) 23:55, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

text: The so-called Kawi language is a literary language, while Old Javanese is an older phase of the Javanese language. Kawi language can refer to any phase of Javanese, i.e. Old, Middle, and New Javanese. The Old Javanese language is almost exclusively attested in its Kawi form, but not always. Some inscriptions were just written in prose. So Kawi and Old Javanese are not identical. Meursault2004 (talk) 00:40, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

text: I will move this page back to "Old Javanese". "Kawi" refers to a literary tradition more than to a linguistic entity. The language is overwhelmingly called "Old Javanese", regardless of the degree of Sanskritization which may vary from text to text. –Austronesier (talk) 21:24, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me, if for no other reason than that it's a more intelligible title. — kwami (talk) 21:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

text: Duh, I can't LOL. I will have to make a technical request, but am too lazy for it now. –Austronesier (talk) 21:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I did it. — kwami (talk) 21:30, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kawi vs Old Javanese 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Moved to Old Javanese. Per consensus (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 01:33, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Kawi language →  – "Old Javanese language" is the WP:COMMONNAME. While "Kawi language" is clearly also in use (see ISO name and Glottolog), "Old Javanese" outweighs "Kawi" as the name of the language in specialist and non-specialist sources.
Simple search results in JSTOR and Google Scholar are even among the two terms, but this is due to the impacts of Humboldt's monograph on the language from 1838. Every work citing Humboldt's book will thus create a hit for "Kawi language", even if the author of the work uses a different term. If "Humboldt" is filtered out from the search results, we get a clearer picture of the actual usage:
*Google Scholar 
*:"Kawi language": 236
*:"Old Javanese language": 412
*JSTOR
*:"Kawi language": 49 
*:"Old Javanese language": 93
Additional evidence comes from the relevant specialist literature. Two academics who have devoted their scholarly career to the language, P.J. Zoetmulder and Thomas W. Hunter, have used "Old Javanese". Also in overview sources in the field, "Old Javanese" is generally used, e.g. in Blust's The Austronesian languages or in Adelaar and Himelmann's The Austronesian Languages of Asia and Madagascar.
As mentioned above, the elephants in the room are the tertiary sources Ethnologue and Glottolog, but this is not the only case where ISO language names are at odds with WP:COMMONNAME. Austronesier (talk) 15:24, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 1 October 2022