Talk:Persimmon

message: the brown and dark stuffs inside astringent and non-astringent fuyus are they edible? i think most people who will come to read this article will ask themselves the same question.
  Coffeecake persimmons, a (usually) non-astringent fuyu variety grown in California, have a very tasty edible, dark brown speckled flesh.  A more typical (non-astringent) fuyu has a light orange flesh when hard; when further ripened (at room temperature) after picking, the flesh darkens and softens but is still edible.  The flesh of certain astringent varieties such as the Chocolate persimmon is an edible dark brown jelly when ready to eat.  In general, dark brown to black spots on the skin surface are fine to eat.  Cut out and discard any moldy spots and on a gelatinous persimmon, any dark, relatively firm lumps extending below the skin's surface.  Also discard the astringent bit of core (if any) below the stem cap, the little black bit at the tip of the blossom end, the stem cap, and seeds (if any).Penelope Gordon (talk) 08:40, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  signs when are they rotten 

message: I am not active in editing wikipedia at all, but I just noticed that this page sites the etymology of word as being "from putchamin, pasiminan, or pessamin, from Powhatan, an Algonquian language (related to Blackfoot, Cree and Mohican) of the eastern United States, meaning 'a dry fruit.'"  The name also appears in the Talmud (codified approximately 1500 years ago) in multiple places.  It is rendered there as "afares'mon," where the "f" and "p" sounds are frequently switched.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.239.36 (talk) 03:58, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: According to Morton, Diospyros kaki is "[p]erhaps best known in America as the Japanese, or Oriental, persimmon." This seems inconsistent with the opening sentences here, and certainly inconsistent with relegating "Japanese Persimmon" to one "commercial form" (Fuyu). Ref: Japanese Persimmon, pps. 411-416. In: Fruits of warm climates, by Julia F. Morton, 1987-- http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/japanese_persimmon.html. Similarly, from the California Rare Fruit Growers' page on Persimmon: "Common Names [are] Persimmon, Oriental Persimmon, Japanese Persimmon, Kaki."--http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/persimmon.html
Further, the latter source lists the following as "Related species: Black Sapote (Diospyros digyna), Mabolo, Velvet Apple (D. discolor), Date Plum (D. lotus), Texas Persimmon (D. texana), American Persimmon (D. virginiana)." This is inconsistent with the 2nd sentence, which equates all of these species ("also known as"). Also, in her chapter on Mabolo, Morton states that "the mabolo has appeared in literature for many years under the ilegitimate binomial Diospyros discolor Willd....D. blancoi A. DC....is now regarded as the corrent botanical designation for this species." (ibid., 1987, pps. 418-419--http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/mabolo.html
I suggest that this article be reviewed and revised by experts in this field. Donald R. Davis 23:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review and Major Revision Seem Needed 

message: What about Bush Persimmon (Diospyros brasiliensis)?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.1.144.37 (talk) 17:23, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The cited USDA source lists values for all 13 known vitamins. However, the number of data points exceeds zero for only two--vitamin C and folate. The others are inferred or estimated and thus are currently poorly known. Donald R. Davis 22:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questions 

message: I disagree that they should be merged; Diospyros and persimmon are not synonyms, in the sense that all persimmons are in genus Diospyros, but not all species of genus Diospyros are persimmons; similarly, several, but not all, members of the genus produce wood known as ebony, but not all of the species produce ebony. Diospyros deals with the whole genus, while persimmon deals with the few species that produce persimmon fruit. Tom Radulovich 05:40, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with him. — FoeNyx 14:42, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree with him. — --Ricardo Carneiro Pires 19:11, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree with him and add that the Persimmon page should be edited to reflect the comments made above. — ForteTwo 00:31, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge with Diospyros?

message: "It was known to the ancient Greeks as "the fruit of the Gods", i.e. Dios pyros, hence the scientific name of the genus."
Pyros = fire in Ancient Greek. Where did you get this etymology from? Can you verify it? And was the fruit really known as Dios pyros in ancient times, or was this name given at the time it was classified?
I would like to know the Greek spelling of "Dios pyros."--Nipisiquit 14:11, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Keeler's Our Native Trees says only "Diospyros, of Greek derivation, means the fruit of Jove.  Persimmon is the Indian name.".  That at least confirms the "fruit of" terminology if not the era of the reference beyond Keeler's 1900 publication date.  Wandering to OR: I don't know Greek well enough to know if someone made a pun between fire and fruit, but I note the astringency of the fruit.  Does the Greek plant also have astringent fruit?  (SEWilco 04:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

text: EB 1st edition only has brief description and that there are two species, neither native to the British Isles; no mention of etymology.  EB 1911 gives no etymology for Diospyros.  Oxford English Dictionary has persimmon but not Diospyros (well, that's not English).  (SEWilco 05:16, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fruit of the Gods? 

message: I read somewhere that the Sharon fruit was a variety of persimmon that was developed in Israel.
Was it named after Ariel Sharon?
+ Sharon is a common name in Israel! 82.113.133.7 08:52, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was it named after Ariel Sharon? 

message: Do astringent persimmons taste different from non-astringent ones? What about Sharon fruits (in Sweden, we seem to call all kinds of persimmons 'sharon fruit')? Do those taste different from "regular" persimmons? I think it should be mentioned in the article whether they taste alike or not.
:Yes, astringent is a kind of taste. If you'd like to find what an astringent taste is like, lick a persimmon skin. To your other questions, it depends on what variety you're referring to. bibliomaniac15 19:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To me persimon's skin tastes like a pear. I don't know what cultivar I tasted though (it was orange, with no seeds, sweet and soft flesh, not sour, not very aromatic, not very wet)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.131.137.50 (talk) 01:15, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What do they taste like? 

message: The origin of the plant is not clear or unique. At least four versions of the same article, namely the English, the Italian, the Spanish and the Portuguese versions of this article, state different origins for the plant.
* English: original from China
* Italian: original from Japan and original from China (restated)
* Spanish: original from Japan and China
* Portuguese: original from China and popular in Japan (irrelevant)
This is something that needs to be clarified.
ICE77 -- 84.223.229.174 17:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin not clear or unique 

message: It is pretty obscure whether you should peel the skin (thus removing lycopene; which in flesh is found (if found) in miniscule quantities) because of the fertilizers or should you consume it with its skin on?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.250.13.1 (talk) 19:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just wash them. 89.240.1.20 (talk) 19:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Wash or peel depends on the type your are eating and whether or not you like the taste of the skin. The standard practice in Japan is to peel them (as with most fruit in Japan), but when fully ripe or when eating tastier varieties it often adds flavor to eat the skin.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.36.245.159 (talk) 00:18, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peeled or not? 

message: Vitamin C  7.5 mg 13% 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C
Persimmon 60  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neoper (talk • contribs) 11:48, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  the figure of Vitamin C is worng 

message: "Though persimmon trees belong to the same genus as ebony trees, persimmon tree wood has a limited use in the manufacture of objects requiring hard wood."
:Why?  Please elaborate on this, some one who knows.  - BalthCat (talk) 19:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Translated and copied the text about this from the JP article. Also, as far as I can recall, persimmon tree are generally small, which means that it will be difficult to find a good sized wood to use. In addition, they are rather slow growing, so despite its fruit being rather popular, its wood is not available in a useful quantity.--Revth (talk) 08:52, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persimmon tree wood has limited use in the manufacture of objects requiring hard wood. 

message: The article doesn't address when the fruit appears and when it can be harvested? Does anybody know? --Brian Fenton (talk) 12:00, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It most likely depends in your location and the exact tree species. In hardiness zone 6, fruit is formed in July, and matures slowly from August to October; It can stay on the tree even after the first frost; You should only pick the fruits when they are very ripe, in October or November. Dhrm77 (talk) 17:07, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  when does the fruit come out? 

message: Is this article just about the fruit or does it also include the tree? It seems that most of this article is about the fruit, but it also includes a section on wood, so it is also about tree. If it is to be about the tree, then perhaps some of the opening paragraphs need some modification. This is an issue because the closest article in Japanese is about the tree, so an editor there says it shouldn't have an interlanguage link to this article. Tweisbach (talk) 17:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, it looks like Japanese persimmon is the article for that. Tweisbach (talk) 02:30, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Ooops! I was working on an incorrect assumption.  I have deleted the link.  Please see my comments below  Wood and Trees  LookingGlass (talk) 15:45, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fruit or Tree 

message: link #16 is broken  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.218.187 (talk) 18:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken link 

message: Anyone who can advise me hoe to protect my persimmon tree fruits from squirrels. My trees produce lots of buds or small fuits but overtime they slowly disappear, i am blaming the squirrels in my backyard. Any solution to this one? i appreciate it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.219.255.152 (talk) 18:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: For ground pests, I make an aluminum foil, or cardboard, skirt around the trees about 1.5-2 feet up. Only 5-6" out from tree. Or, I get plastic pvc tubing wide enough for the tree, cut about a foot to two sections, cut down the side & wrap around bottom of tree. Good luck! Beatriceblue (talk) 09:42, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  SAVING FRUITS 

message: This article is a pleasure to read - thank you to all who have contributed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paultramarine (talk • contribs) 06:57, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thank you 

message: "American persimmons are completely inedible until they are fully ripe." Huh? Basis? We have the Fuyu variety too, which I'm eating right now fully hard. My fruit was grown down the street here in Southern California. That line seems odd (opinion?), especially with no link to backup. Beatriceblue (talk) 09:50, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: American fruit inedible unless ripe?

message: In the medical effects section there are some really remarkable statements, some of which leave one wondering about material lost in translation. I am stopping short of WP:BRD, but my mental digestive processes strain at the likes of claims such as that "...51-year old patient who had eaten a kilogram (2.2 pounds) of unpeeled persimmons each day for 40 years..." He started out by going great guns didn't he? That 11-year-old must have had an impressive capacity for his age! 
To cap that, another case report in the refs speaks of an 82-year-old patient treated with coca cola for a bezoar (welll OK, I guess...) I read through till I then came to: "Consent: Written informed consent was obtained from the patient's mother for publication of this case report and accompanying images. A copy of the written consent is available for review by the Editor-in-Chief of this journal." I want to know why a few previous generations of parents were not called in to OK his mother's OK. As I said, I am not doing anything about this; I suspect it was just a thoughtlessly and inappropriately included standard disclaimer appended to an interesting case report and discussion, but I am wondering whether such slips redound to our plausibility, and what, if anything, to do about it. JonRichfield (talk) 09:34, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Why not his great grandmother???

message: I started reading the article properly at the "Fruit" section, but was well and truly hooked after that.  It's a great article imo so thanks to all involved.  I really had absolutely no idea when I came here (in order to figure "how" to eat my purchase!) that Persimmons are so incredible.  LookingGlass (talk) 14:33, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great article, thanks! 

message: The section on Trees here surfaced a confusion I had while reading the article: the assumption that persimmons came from one tree.  To avoid this for others (I note from some comments above that I may not be the only one) I have subdivided the section on Select Species.  
However, doing this highlights, for me anyway, a need to co-ordinate articles on the trees with this article.  For instance:
* the sections here on Wood and Trees might be better placed into sections in the main articles for various species  
* the main article on the tree: Diospyros, has little in the section Use by humans on the "persimmon bearing" trees and could be expanded by information here
* the article on Diospyros kaki duplicates information on the fruit here but is generally less informative and erudite on the subject in my opinion.  
It seems to me that the articles on individual trees should contain links regarding their fruits back to here (and also perhaps be re-edited so that their main thrust concerns the trees as a whole rather than their fruits).  This article should do the opposite. 
LookingGlass (talk) 15:40, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wood and Trees (and Fruit too) - linking and mergeing 

message: Edit from 29 dec 2012: line 34, permission, hope? Completely unintelligible. Can anyone have a look?!Super48paul (talk) 16:23, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  line 34 

message: Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that :File:Fuyu Persimmon (Diospyros Kaki).jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on July 31, 2013. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2013-07-31. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:22, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:File:Fuyu Persimmon (Diospyros Kaki).jpg]] to appear as POTD soon 

message: Right now there is no Chinese link for Persimmon, and if I add a link for  "zh" and "柿", it will say error as "柿" already belongs to "Diospyros"... so how can I add a link from Persimmon to "柿" or "柿子"?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Winterheat (talk • contribs) 19:52, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese link 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Persimmon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120218045438/http://www.stormh2o.com/march-april-2002/trees-strormwater-treatment.aspx to http://www.stormh2o.com/march-april-2002/trees-strormwater-treatment.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:08, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The map of "Persimmon production in 2006" needs attention. The legend claims to show production in 2011 not 2006. Also it claims to show production as a percentage of that of China. China is shown as "1000" i.e. China produces 10 times more persimmons than China produces. Somehow I don't think that's correct ... Newburyjohn (talk) 11:34, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the confusion of the previous description, table and map. I have replaced all that old information with a new abbreviated table from 2013 FAOSTAT data (most recent available) and brief text description for a more simplified presentation. --Zefr (talk) 15:46, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: In Japan, persimmon juice (presumably due to its high tannin content) is used to preserve and dye textiles (including paper) as well as a lacquer.  The Wikipedia article on Ise-katagami talks about the use of kakishibu, a glue (lacquer) extracted from persimmon juice, in a traditional Japanese technique for creating paper stencils.  The following is a quote from a Tozando advertisement for traditional persimmon-dyed clothing:
"Persimmon-Dye is commonly known as "Kakishibu" in Japan and this "persimmon juice" has been said to be good for the insecticide and antiseptic lacquering (especially on wood) and the persimmon-dyed fabric garment was worn among the Samurai warrior in the Heian period according to the historical record.
Like the natural herb-dye, it works great for chemical dye allergy, Atopic dermatitis and mental relaxation, being so easy on your skin as the same time."
The following is from a Hiromi Paper advertisement for kakishibu:
"Kakishibu is the fermented tannin juice from an unripe persimmon and is used to waterproof, insect proof, strengthen and dye paper."
Per a Japanese (NHK World) video (translated into English), in the section starting at 12:20, kakishibu is useful as a waterproofing and preservative coating for wooden building exteriors, cloth, and paper; and as a cloth and paper strengthener and dye.  Depending on the dye fixing substance used, colors from dark brown through light orange and even blue can be produced.  At the Persimmon Museum (in segment starting at 7:26) they crush green persimmons, ferment the liquid for a couple of weeks, and then let it sit for three years.  The section starting at 25:00 talks about the use of a kakishibu solution to coat metal (iron) parts with a rust-resistant film.
The Wikipedia article on Garot talks about the Korean tradition of textiles dyed by the juice of unripe persimmons.  A Jeju (minimally English subtitled) video shows the technique of garot.Penelope Gordon (talk) 08:04, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persimmons in Textiles and Finishes 

message: Per a Japanese (NHK World) video (translated into English) on persimmons, in a section starting at 5:04, astringent orange persimmon peels (skins) are used in pickling to increase flavor and sweetness as well as a natural anti-bacterial.  The section starting at 5:35 describes how persimmon leaves are used to make persimmon leaf sushi: the tannin in the leaves preserves the fish.  Persimmon leaves are also used to make a healthful tea.  Ampogaki is a premium Japanese dried persimmon; dojohachiyagaki, produced in Hachiya since the 11th century, is another (segment starting at 16:00) premium version.  The same production method is used for producing hoshigaki in California.  The segment starting at 21:50 talks about preserved Fall persimmon leaves (brilliant scarlet) for use in ornamenting food dishes; the color lasts for a year.  The Wikipedia artile Ark of Taste references Dojo Hachiyagaki as Japanese, Hoshigaki as Californian, and American persimmon as American.Penelope Gordon (talk) 08:49, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additions to the 'Culinary uses' section 

message: Per a Japanese (NHK World) video (translated into English) on persimmons, in a section starting at 12:20, the Persimmon Museum is investigating powdered kakishibu as a treatment for diabetes and high blood pressure.  The section starting at 26:00 discusses investigations in using kakishibu to kill viruses that cause infectious diseases.
Per a WebMD article persimmon fruit and leaves are used for high blood pressure, fluid retention, constipation, hiccough, and stroke. It is also used for improving blood flow and reducing body temperature.
"According to multiple sources the Chinese Academy of the Sciences found that this particular tea contains a large variety of Vitamin C, tannins, flavonoids, rutin, choline carotenoids, amino acids. In addition, the tea were found to contain 10 elements: Magnesium (Mg), Manganese (Mn), titanium (Ti), calcium (Ca), phosphorous (P), and more. These elements are found to aid to healthy bodily functions. Compared to other teas, persimmon leaf tea contains a higher level of health and nutritional benefits. Analysis has shown persimmon leaf tea contains up to 10 times the amount of Vitamin C, tannins, flavonoids, rutin, choline and essential amino acid(Study conducted 1980. CAS). A Korean Study concluded that persimmon tea contains 3.5~20.8 times more vitamin C than green tea!"
"These results show that persimmon leaf tea could be considered as a natural antioxidant source."
And there are many other sites and studies on the health benefits of persimmon leaf tea.Penelope Gordon (talk) 10:04, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: These are traditional medicine uses or are unverifiable measurements on nutrient contents not acceptable to state anything in the article about nutritional value or anti-disease effects. Such claims would need to meet scientific WP:V with sources compliant per WP:MEDRS. As none of the above meets these requirements, this section of the article should remain unchanged. --Zefr (talk) 16:04, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition to 'Nutrient and phytochemical content' section 

message: Per a Japanese (NHK World) video (translated into English) on persimmons, Kakio, Japan is the birthplace of the persimmon and there are around 1,000 varieties of Japanese persimmons, only 20 of which are "sweet" (non-astringent when hard).Penelope Gordon (talk) 10:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition to the introduction? 

message: I have a couple of persimmon trees in my backyard, and I notice something very peculiar. When I see dead branches, or twigs, I pick them up, and they detach very, very easily from the rest of the tree. That's a characteristic that I have never seem from any other tree, where dead branches are usually very well attached to the tree. I haven't found anything  on that subject on the internet, so I don't know it it is a characteristic of only this particular species of persimmon, or all persimmons. Does anyone know something about that? Dhrm77 (talk) 17:14, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead branches 

message: I noticed a disparity of almost 2x when comparing FAOSTATS for chinese persimmon production in 2018 in this article and the portuguese wikipedia equivalent, which showed only 3,16 millions of tonnes. Checking the source directly, it seems the portuguese wikipedia is right, as i haven't found the 6.3 M figure anywhere in the FAO website - but i think it comes from someone making the mistake of adding together the numbers for all of china and "china, mainland" which is just china's numbers repeated, minus Taiwan. Am i missing something or can i go ahead and change the tables? I might also take the opportunity to add production throughout the last years, instead of just the most recent figures. YuriNikolai (talk) 00:24, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing this out, , and you were correct about the inaccurate numbers. I made changes to the table and some content alterations. Just my opinion, but I don't think prior year production values for a relatively minor crop like persimmon are useful. We don't have multiyear production tables even for major crops, like wheat or oats. Zefr (talk) 03:06, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for fixing the table, ! I do agree that persimmon's importance is relatively minor, but perhaps an expansion to the table could help the page look less messy in that section, as the plain text included is minor, making the table itself overlap with other sections. IMO this table could help illustrate text about differing increases in production, depending on the country. As for major crops, i could indeed start doing something similar to their pages first, so we can gauge usefulness and presentability. What do you think of a table similar to the one used to display climate data here: Gyaring Lake? :) YuriNikolai (talk) 23:14, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Additional content might be ok, but I don't think expanding the table is justified, and especially not for coping with white space on the page - there are other solutions for that. Production has not always 'increased', and most countries have quite low production. This becomes a matter of WP:WEIGHT for undue content, in my opinion. Zefr (talk) 03:52, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAO statistics 

message: the current title image does not reflect a typical persimmon. below there is better, more typical image. ~~~~ aruz (talk) 14:20, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title image