Help talk:IPA/Spanish

message: I'd just edited the Las Meninas page and saw that people keep referring to this article to argue that [z] is not a thing in Spanish. Of course, I understand it's not a phoneme, and so do the guys who took it out of this key to avoid confusion, but it gets a bit dogmatic when people remove it on principle when it's a pretty clear allophone of /s/ before voiced consonants, as even a brief look at the Spanish Phonology page shows. This might be more of a problem when editors want to have less transcriptions, which I understand, and then local pronunciations really get messy, but Las Meninas is a Spanish painting, and Spain widely features this voicing of the /s/ as does Mexico, so it's not exactly inaccurate to at least include it on pages pertaining to places that feature the [z]. But alas, the people shall decide ws 186.50.216.68 (talk) 07:43, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: apologies, upon closer inspection, I saw a note that says that all fricatives subject to this voicing are variable, but I'm afraid this isn't sourced in the article itself, and so I'm still at a loss 186.50.216.68 (talk) 07:47, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Cited. She cites Schmidt & Willis (2011) and Campos-Astorkiza (2014, 2015). Nardog (talk) 07:56, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: that'll do, thank you 167.61.37.88 (talk) 20:38, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  /s/ 

message: b[2]	bestia, embuste, vaca, envidia with an English approximation of "about"... Really?? this is clearly wrong, vaca and envidia use a "v" sound not a "b" sound.  Vaca is a "v" sound as in volatile which is the same sound in English and in Spanish.  Vaca is not the same as Baca...That is just ridiculous I don't care what the reference.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.19.72.62 (talk) 00:41, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Where are you from? As reported and summarized by Exford (2018), labiodental pronunciation of orthographic  has been reported in the US, northern Mexico, and Puerto Rico, either through retention of the /b/–/v/ contrast, language contact, or hypercorrection, but it's definitely a minority and not prescribed by the likes of RAE. Nardog (talk) 03:42, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  v or b 

message: As says in the title. I am unfamiliar with how to properly edit Wikipedia pages, and the attempts to figure it out were unsuccessful.
Thank you to whoever fixes it! Neverbeentocincinatti (talk) 16:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: There's nothing to fix. [β, ð, ɣ, ʝ] are more commonly approximants so they link to the articles about the approximants. Nardog (talk) 16:32, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  ɣ (Voiced velar fricative) links to ɰ (Voiced velar approximate) 

message: I came across some articles, namely Tucson but also some others, where they indicate the Spanish IPA pronunciation of words bearing coda /k/ as [ɣ] as a general rule for standard Spanish. I disagree with this notion, specially if it is prescribed as a rule for the standard variety. The reference used for this (Hualde 2005) mainly focuses on the Iberian standard variety based on northern Spanish pronunciation, where this lenis pronunciation does take place natively (and with the author being Spaniard himself). However this is not the case for Latin America, where coda /k/ is strictly realised not as an approximant or fricative but always as plosive. There are some sources regarding this from Latin American countries noting this pronunciation, on both formal and informal contexts, from Mexico down to Chile and Argentina. The same applies for /p/ and /t/. Many Spanish-speaking users from the region have also shared this issue regarding IPA pronunciations with this kind of lenis feature present on some articles, that they do not reflect standard practice aside from features that cater to Iberian practice. 38.25.30.164 (talk) 19:06, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Hualde (2005) is in no way confined to Castilian standard (the very page talks about realizations in Caribbean dialects), and the word-internal neutralization between /p, t, k/ and /b, d, ɡ/ seems well documented and uncontested (e.g. Campos-Astorkiza 2018:169–70). What are those "sources" attesting the lack of the neutralization (or consistent realization of the neutralized phonemes as voiceless plosives?) across Latin America? Nardog (talk) 08:02, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coda realizations of /p, t, k/as [β, ð, ɣ]