Talk:Robert Tilton

message: Please do not blank out the Robert Tilton article. We are aware that some people may fundamentally disagree with its content, but blanking the article is not productive. If you have issues, please discuss them here...Scarletsmith 20:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To all contributors... 

message: The primary concerns are addressed in the GA review. I'm moving here in their entirety to make it easier to modify and include a more proper and reliable source if the item is going to be included back into the article. Agne 22:29, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed. Scarletsmith 04:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Scarletsmith 04:21, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

text: StruckScarletsmith 04:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments removed from article in accordance to [[WP:BLP]] 

message: Do we need so many links in there? That's making it almost like an attack page. JoshuaZ 04:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. Links section cleaned up. Scarletsmith 02:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Lampoonery section" 

message: There are major problems with this article.
1. Biography policy
There is the potential that this article is in violation of WP:BLP and in particular:
“Biographies of living people should be written responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone. While a strategy of eventualism may apply to other subject areas, badly written biographies of living persons should be stubbed or deleted.”
Unfortunately, this article is more of a listing of his scandals rather than a biography. But even more than just listing the scandals, they are written neither responsibly nor conservatively. Most of the scandals were broadcast on Primetime Live and not surprisingly, they are sensational. However, giving the full details and quotes is not encycylopaedic and would certainly not satisfy Wiki policy above. While scandals and accusations should be mentioned, they must be written in a neutral way perhaps summarised rather than detailled to maintain the encyclopaedic tone. I believe Jimbo Wales’ quote is relevant here.
"Real people are involved, and they can be hurt by your words. We are not tabloid journalism, we are an encyclopedia."
: The reality is that the main reason Robert Tilton is famous--and notable--is that he is in fact a scandalous religious figure. Those of us who have contributed to this article strive for as much neutrality as we can get considering the available sources, but understandably this cannot be just a puff PR piece either. The main thrust of Tilton's notoriety is that he is, in fact, quite scandalous. Nevertheless, I will attempt to clean up some of the more objectionable POV issues in the critique, and I thank you for taking the time to review the article.Scarletsmith 17:37, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. It is hard to remove all of the dashed examples you cite, but most of them have been either reworded or removed.Scarletsmith 17:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Removed some of the contractions, reworded some of the "poor prose", and fixed the incomplete sentence.Scarletsmith 17:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, yes, he did--one of the hidden cameras was mounted in the the eyeglasses of one of the Primetime Live producers, so when the Response Media spokesman spoke to the producers, he was often talking directly to the hidden cameras. I will reword this to make it a little clearer.Scarletsmith 17:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, it was an unusual explanation (come on--chemicals from ink on prayer requests requiring plastic surgery?), but I understand the issue and have toned down some of the described rhetoric.Scarletsmith 17:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I did some extensive searching and found an official blog for the Dallas Observer that has some additional clarification on the court decisions against Tilton and some defense of him by a former ministry worker.Scarletsmith 20:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Fixed.Scarletsmith 17:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Fixed.Scarletsmith 18:18, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I combined the parts about reviving Success-N-Life, closing Word Of Faith Family Church, and establishing Christ The Good Shepherd Church into one section, then put the continuing scandal and the Trinity Foundation's ongoing investigation into another. That makes a little more sense.Scarletsmith 18:40, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I happen to think that those of us who've contributed to this article have made a great start (and the previous GA reviewer did as well), and I thank you for your review and valuable input into making it a better one.Scarletsmith 18:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA

message: The scandal section begins with:
Even before the ABC News investigation into his ministry, Tilton had controversy in his background. In a deposition video for a lawsuit that was taped August 18, 1992, Tilton admitted to having robbed a fruit stand as a teen and abused marijuana, LSD, and various barbituates as a young man prior to his conversion to Christianity in 1969.[17] Tilton also admitted several times on Success-N-Life that he used to "drink lots of alcohol and use lots of drugs" before his conversion.
I am curious,how is this a scandal? Many christians were naughty prior to their conversion. Many teenagers were naughty because, well that's what teenagers do. He smoked dope and did some drugs and drank when he was a teenager. My first reaction is so what? That is pretty typical with many American teens. Certainly not scandalous. He robbed a fruit stand says the article but the cite has no mention of it. In view of this is a living person and there is no support for the alleged fruit stand robbery I am going to remove that bit after I hit save page here. I think we should remove all of the "teenage years" from the scandal section but wanted to get opinions from others here before I do it. I just don't view it as scandalous. How many of YOU smoked dope or drank booze in your youth? Heck, how many of you still smoke dope or drink booze ;-) Mr Christopher 23:20, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The paragraph is correct. The cites are wrong, as people who have moved sentences around in the article have mislaid the proper references. I've put the paragraph in question back as it's relevant to the fact that Tilton was scandalous in religious circles even before the PTL story appeared and will be correcting the end notes.Scarletsmith 19:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for making sense of the cites. I cannot agree that drinking alcohol and smoking pot during one's youth constitutes a scandal. I don't care enough about the subject matter to argue about it but I think it is very wrong. If we are to say Tilton's teen years constiutute scandal then virtually every biography of someone under 50 should have a scandal section as well. If he had sex with goats while under the influence of pot I'd support the scandal notion but just about everyone under 50 smoked pot and drank alcohol at some point during their youth. That is not a scandal, it's pretty ordinary. Mr Christopher 23:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Gary Richardson, the Dallas lawyer who got Tilton to admit to the drug and underage alcohol use in an affidavit, would disagree. Such a background in drug and alcohol abuse, while it may seem just like a normal youthful indiscretion (especially for folks coming of age in the 60s), turned out to be a real problem in later life; while Tilton said under oath that he no longer drank or used drugs, both of Tilton's former wives brought his excessive alcohol abuse up during their divorce proceedings (Leigh Valentine made it a central point in her divorce that Tilton was often drunk and hallucinating about "rats eating [his] brain"). For that reason, I think it needs to be left in.Scarletsmith 04:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It may be that his alcohol consumption was also an issue after his marriage, but that is the scandal, not his consumption prior to conversion. In order for this to be considered scandalous, the divorce proceedings need to be included and cited in the section. Otherwise, the original commenter, Mr. Christopher, is correct. Raoulduke25 (talk) 14:05, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: When is a scandal not a scandal?

message: A UK Emo band, hailing from Norttingham, named themselves after the televangelist. They were touring from 1993 to 1999 and released two albums, Crescent in 1996 and Leading Hotels of the World in 1999. The albums never lived up to their live shows, which were recognised as some of the best around that time in the UK Hardcore scene. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SMKinnear (talk • contribs) 18:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK Emo Hardcore band 

message: I did not see any mention of his wierd habit of breaking into nonsense words in the middle of his presentation, which is apparently his notion of "speaking in tounges." It's not biblical and it really creeps me out. Also, in the latest version of his show (which I have seen) he seems to have an uncontrollable tick or twitch or jerk that moves his entire head. Looks like a neurological disorder of some kind, like Parkenson's. I don't have a citation for the latter; I suppose it is sort of OR. But just LOOK at him sometime! You'll see what I mean. Bigmac31 17:42, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know what you're talking about. Surely a reliable source out there discusses that oddity. It's hilarious. · jersyko talk 19:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Apparently, this was a habit he got into when he would trip over his tongue during his sermons/TV appearances/etc. On The Prophet Of Prosperity, one of the clips has him talking about how people make fun of him because of his speech patterns, and in the midst of it, he gets tongue-tied and starts "talking in tongues". It's utterly ridiculous, of course, but I think it's an affectation. Scarletsmith 01:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tounges and ticks 

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