Talk:8th King's Royal Irish Hussars

message: I have re-assessed it and it remains a start article. One of the main problems with this article is its lack of references. In order to remain verifiable it needs to have verifiable, reliable sources listed to cite any arguments or points. At the moment a lot of the references used are to Wikipedia, which is not a reliable source. You need outside sources such as books, The Times, journals etc. When you do add a citation try to use  a citation template so we can see all of the information about it. 
This line doesn't imbue me with confidence: "Reproduced in part from the website of the Queen's Royal Hussars the successor regiment of the 8th Hussars. [2]" Make sure you do not copy text directly, instead rewrite it here and cite the other website. 
I will run through it now and rewrite sections. Some of the section headers need amalgamating. Woody (talk) 17:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Milhist Assessment 

message: I think the following text is far, far too detailed for an article on the 8th. It is ok for the Crimean War article, but we need to be more concise here. I will try and trim it down so it relates to the 8th instead of general terms. Woody (talk) 11:31, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added some without seeing this post. Feel free to replace them with more 8th specific ones. Woody (talk) 16:39, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crimean War 

message: Woody I note your excellent layout of the battle honours.  One wee thing in the interests of accuracy:  only 40 battle honours were emblazoned on the guidon (that's still the rule today), that's why I had a list of "emblazoned" and "accredited".   I don't want to tamper with your excellent work so maybe you could change the wording to reflect that?GDD1000 (talk) 17:32, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battle Honours 

message: I'm not sure that the last change by Buckshot06 is relevant.   The first duties of the new regiment involved several years overseas in the Far East as part of the dismantling of empire.  I can't see why we need to jump to the 100 hour action of the QRIH in 1991?  Could someone give me another opinion please?GDD1000 (talk) 10:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  QRIH 

message: The letter in the crimean war section is far to big and should be removed it is bigger than the whole section about the war. BigDuncTalk 18:30, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the "charge" was the regiment's major moment in the Crimean War - that's why it occupies such a large space.  This artcile is about the 8th Hussars, not the Crimean War. Thunderer (talk) 18:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Letter 

message: What award did the royal irish hussars get in Korea? BigDuncTalk 19:38, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Two awards - the battle honour "Korea 1950-1952" and "Imjin".  They're in the list of battle honours.Thunderer (talk) 20:26, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And are they distinguished service medals? BigDuncTalk 20:34, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks David for wikilink but was this honour for distinguished service? Don't regiments get honours just for being in a particular region? Also A unit need not have defeated an adversary in order to earn a battle honour so would a defeated unit get a distinguished service medal or would members of said regiment who had acted bravely get a distinguished service medal? BigDuncTalk 15:06, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Generally British practice is that decorations are for individuals, there are very few examples of "corporate" awards of gallantry medals.  They are the GCs to Malta and the RUC, and the CGC for the UDR.  Corporate recognition is in the form of battle honours.  Originally (i.e. 17-18th century) merely being present and firing on the enemy was sufficient to qualify, but the criteria have considerably tightened over-time, and the unit (in broad terms) has to have done something more than the other units involved, or in the case of a defeat, done more than could reasonably have been expected of them.  Possibly things are slightly more relaxed for the campaign honours, as opposed to those for a specific incident, but KRIH got the specific Imjin River battle honour, so it does seem reasonable to say they had distinguished service in the Korean War.  The idea of a battle honour is broadly similar to the US Presidential Unit Citation and similar, though I don't think a specific equivalence to an individual award is spelled out in the same way.  David Underdown (talk) 15:31, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So what exact award was given to them in Korea? I'm sure it has a name. BigDuncTalk 18:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No - they got the battle honours "Korea 1950-1952" and "Imjin".   The most important one for the purpose of your question is Imjin.  Due to a rotation the regiment was being returned to the UK, RHQ, A & B Squadrons were en route to Japan when the Chinese Spring Offensive started leaving only C Squadron under the command of Major Henry Huth.  (that's only 18 tank crews).  They were the only armour available to the British 29th Brigade who were outnumbered 10-1 by the Chinese at the Imjin Line.   C Sqn of the 8th supported the Glosters and Northumberlands on the hills by getting close enough to them to provide direct fire support, along with artillery which was firing from some miles back.  The Chinese managed to break through on the low ground, cutting off the Glosters and Northumberlands and outflanking the artillery leaving only the tanks to provide fire support and a means of escape for the infantry.   The tanks kept going back in again and again to bring more infantry out from the Northumberlands position, supported by the Ulster Rifles.  They were surrounded by Chinese and had to fight in and fight out - losing 26 men in the process and having to machine gun themselves to clear Chinese troops off the turrets.   When they had the Northumberlands out they returned for the Glosters but one tank was knocked out in a narrow mountain pass so they had to abandon that as the other tanks couldn't get past and it was too dangerous to get out of the vehciles to try and recover it.   As a result of all this the Glosters were wiped out or taken prisoner and many hussars were taken prisoner.    The guns of many of the tanks were worn out as they had overheated.  They also lost six tanks.   Four of which were the new Centurions (at that time).   Huth was awarded the DSO and other individuals received other decorations and the 8H were given the battle honour "Imjin" for the action.   The remainder of the regiment returned and under their Commanding Officer, Colonel Lowther, formed "Lowther Force" with the Ulster Rifles (I think) and 45 (Belfast) Battery Royal Artillery and, along with other elements of the 29th Brigade successfully repulsed the Chinese offensive along their sector of the Imjin Line.Thunderer (talk) 18:58, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Also - "Imjin" was the last battle honour of this unit which was formed from the survivors of the seige of Derry - they were amalgamated five years later. Thunderer (talk) 19:01, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats all well and good so what was the name of the honour that was awarded? Is it called The Battle Honour? Does the queen/king (and correct me if thats wrong) say I award the 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars the Battle Honour for battles in Korea?  BigDuncTalk 19:06, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The specific honour which was awarded was the battle honour "Imjin".  It's awarded by the monarch (Queen Elizabeth II in this case) and is officially notified to the regiment through the office of its Colonel in Chief (Prince Phillip in this case).   The regimental guidon (which is what cavalry have instead of colours) is then replaced by a new one which has the extra battle honour(s) embroidered onto it and is re-presented by the Colonel in Chief at a parade held (normally) at the regiment's barracks.  It would be normal to have the individual bravery decorations presented individually by the Colonel in Chief during this parade, even though the recipients will have known for some months they have received the award and have been wearing the ribbon for the decoration on the appropriate uniforms.Thunderer (talk) 19:18, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And yes, there would be a printed citation.  It'll be held at the officers mess in Athlone Barracks, Sennelager at the moment, in the records of the Queen's Royal Hussars.Thunderer (talk) 19:21, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the award a Distinguished Service award? BigDuncTalk 14:04, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, as I stated back in my first response to you.  David Underdown (talk) 14:16, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you produce the ref which says it is a distinguished service award thanks. BigDuncTalk 15:03, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

text: No ref is needed.  It's a battle honour.  Pipelink the bloody thing to battle honours if you must but for God's sake stop going on about it.  Read this.Thunderer (talk) 15:16, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Go ahead - see if I care - tell them about your behaviour on the mediation page while you're at it and maybe if you're lucky you'll manage a block for yourself too.  If you want civility you extend it.  Works both ways sonny! Thunderer (talk) 15:49, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: From the article I originally pointed you to, there is a link to http://www2.army.mod.uk/infantry/regts/the_rifles/history_traditions/battle_honours/index.htm  The opening of the second para of this states "Battle honours are usually presented in the form of a name of a country, a region or a city where the regiment's distinguished act took place together with the year when it occurred." (my emphasis)  The link as a whole gives a fairly good overview of the general process, albeit that it concentrates on a single regiment - The Rifles.  I've a few books at home by the likes of Richard Holmes and Julian Thompson which might have more info.  David Underdown (talk) 15:32, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks David. BigDuncTalk 15:39, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: I have to congratulate the people who have worked on this article.  I came to read it after seeing an item in the Belfast Telegraph last week.  This is so comprehensive and informative and I can only imagine the hours of research which different people have put in.  I don't understand why the people in charge of the site don't give it an award.  SonofSetanta (talk) 10:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Congratulations 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.1914-1918.net/CAVALRY/hussars.htm
** In 19th Royal Hussars on 2011-05-25 06:47:50, 404 Not Found
** In 19th Royal Hussars on 2011-06-09 12:16:10, 404 Not Found
** In 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars on 2011-06-19 21:36:23, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 21:37, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: I have removed the "refimprove" citation because I can see the article has been greatly improved since 2011 with many links and inline refs added.  IO removed the last request for a citation myself today and added a ref proving the regiment was involved in the "Glorious Revolution".  If anyone has any serious concerns about the article please add citations where you think it's necessary.  New sources are available now and I think if the article was being started from new it would be a more referenced piece.  SonofSetanta (talk) 14:41, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Refimprove 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Mahon succeeded in holding his position until the French came to his assistance, when the Boers were driven back in a south-easterly direction, having sustained some losses. So this description of an episode in the Boer War in 1900 goes. However 'French' seems to be a writer's (Freudian?) slip, as throughout that war France, where there was much strong pro-Boer opinion, was neutral; the only Frenchmen taking part were volunteers (reportedly 400) in the 'Legion of France' which served under the Boer army. (I am reminded of fact that Lord Raglan in the Crimean War had a confusing tendency to refer to the (Russian) enemy as 'the French', his previous combat experience being at the Battle of Waterloo.)Cloptonson (talk) 20:30, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Check needed - apparent anachronism