Talk:John List (murderer)

message: Tiffany glass ceiling was in the ball room—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.239.180 (talk) 23:34, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: - Court appointed psychs said no.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.173.174.36 (talk) 01:09, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: But thanks for the "upscale" notice, which is helpful for strangers. Carlm0404 (talk) 00:03, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

text: This is very interesting. You're correct that we can't include your content in the article due to WP:V issues. Have you ever been interviewed by an author about this? If it's in a published account from a reliable source it could be at least partially included. Doc talk 03:42, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Those letters would absolutely be of historical interest!  I, for one, would be very interested to see them.  And yes, he was clearly a sociopath; a court-appointed psychiatrist testified to that diagnosis during the trial, as mentioned in the article.  DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 12:42, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Oops, I wrote the above without double-checking -- apparently his official diagnosis at the time was OCPD, but it seems clear in retrospect that he fit most if not all of the criteria for ASPD. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 12:50, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: John Emil List doesn't actually add new information; I don't think a merge and redirect would be too controversial. Deadsalmon 08:24, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Redirected. 68.39.174.238 00:51, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: He was crucial to the case.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.172.28.136 (talk) 23:41, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why is Barney Tracy not mentioned?

message: My father had dated John List's daughter when he was a child.  He told me that John used to chase him out of the house if he brought a guitar over because he felt that music was from Satan. He also told me that they really didnt have any furniture in the house and that John's mother was pretty much the same way when it came to religion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Carbon star (talk • contribs) 01:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something a little personal... 

message: i think he has recently died in prison.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.49.205.72 (talk) 04:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, "medical treatment" can be a bitch.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.47 (talk) 22:38, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  dead yet? 

message: I reference this line in the intro: "He had planned everything so meticulously that nearly a month passed before anyone noticed that anything was amiss." Having read Thou Shalt Not Kill, it should be noted somewhere (not sure where, since I'm a wikipedia newbie) that the family lived a very sheltered life; rarely venturing out except to church every Sunday. Another reason, other than meticulous planning, that it took so long for the murders to be discovered is that they didn't talk to any of their neighbors, and vice versa. His neighbors pretty much thought he was a strange duck (mowing his lawn in a 3-piece suit, for example) and after attempting to socialize with the family and being rebuffed, they gave up. The police were called once prior to the discovery; the neighbors were concerned about the lights being on night and day. The police cased the area and left thinking nothing was wrong. The person who called the police the second time was daughter Patty's music teacher. I apologize for forgetting names and other details; I no longer have the book and it's been a good 15 years since I've read it. Maybe someone else could fill in the details of the discovery better than I could. 71.205.1.189 (talk) 11:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time until discovery of murder 

message: Just wondering if anyone would be able to add a photo of the bust alongside a photo of List as there is a massive chunk of text describing it, but it would be nice if a visual could be added too. Sky83 (talk) 10:34, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The bust of List 

message: He was diagnosed with PTSD in 2001 according to the book Born to Spy by Austin Goodrich.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.152.140.93 (talk) 20:13, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: PTSD

message: Based on the photograph in Righteous Carnage (see here, search for "Steyr" and select page 187), the 9mm murder weapon was a Steyr M1912.
The gun is also identified in the caption as a "1918 German 9mm semiautomatic" and on page 117 as being from World War I. This means the 9mm caliber cannot have been 9x19mm Parabellum, as the rechambering to 9x19mm took place in 1938, but must have been 9x23mm Steyr.  --Lambiam 23:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steyr M1912 

message: A very similar case (finance problems lead to mass family murder) happened in france (see )Sceasary (talk) 12:51, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compare with the Romand case 

message: Has anyone determined the identity of the entity who claimed his body and burried him next to his mother?--Two way time (talk) 05:39, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: OK, I am seeing:
Delores Clark (Miller), married 1985-
I was thinking of editing in "2008 (his death)" but don't know if I'd be getting into privacy issues.  It's a good question (subject to being left unanswered because of privacy issues) what became of Delores after the arrest of the man who turned out to be John List, not Bob Clark.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 18:30, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In the preface to Collateral Damage, co-author Austin Goodrich wrote that List agreed to participate in the project (1) to correct "egregious errors" that had been written about him in other books, and (2) to generate money for Delores.  "As the innocent wife ... Delores became the victim of media rape after his arrest, and went into seclusion.  She later declined any financial help and quietly got a divorce."  There is no mention of her current financial status.  Please sign your posts, by the way; common courtesy and all that. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 02:29, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  2nd wife 

message: Notice the Connie Chung interview of 2002.  She asked John List why he had not killed himself.  Does this mean killing himself in addition to **OR** instead of his immediate family?  There were 2 cases very close together in time and distance (central Maryland, April 2009) where a man killed his wife, his children, and himself, prompting a pastoral outreach from the Catholic Archdiocese of Baltimore.  (Those 2 men were Christopher Wood and William Parente.)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 15:19, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Himself in addition to or instead of his immediate family? 

message: Under the "Arrest and Trial" section it says "List never expressed any remorse for his crimes". This is categorical and gratuitous. How would anyone know? The truth is, on page 80 of his autobiography "Collateral Damage", List writes "I wish I had never done what I did. I've regretted my action and prayed for forgiveness ever since". That sounds like "remorse" to me.
PaulOCPDmanager (talk) 01:28, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The no remorse statement is unreferenced, while the remorse statement is. It will be corrected. This article also needs reference restructuring, which I will try to get to later. Doc talk 04:25, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Doc talk 19:52, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

text: In their podcast about the case, Father Wants Us Dead, Rebecca Everett and Jessica Remo interviewed the current pastor of List's church in Westfield, who said that his predecessor was in contact with List while he was in prison and that List did, near the end of his life, atone (if that's the right word--I don't know much about Lutheranism--for the murders. The pastor expressed his opinion that it was sincere, though whether it really was is unknowable. CasparRH (talk) 23:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Never expressed any remorse? 

message: List might have indeed been methodical but not as much as I would have been if I had been capable of something like this.  The article states that after killing all of his family save his eldest son, he went out on last minute errands and then drove to watch his remaining son play soccer.  Had I been him, I would have been petrified that through some fluke the boy would have unexpectedly come home while he was out and found the bodies.  I do not doubt the veracity of the account, though. People do some mind-boggling things.
I read where after that creep Michael Devlin kidnapped Shawn Hornbeck (age 11), for a month he left the boy bound and gagged in his apartment for hours at a time while Devlin worked at a pizza shop.  For the life of me, I don’t know how he could have functioned under those circumstances.  Such people must have the proverbial nerves of steel to match their diabolic natures.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 22:19, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see my comment below about the claim that List attended the soccer game. There is no evidence that he did. This claim should be removed from the article, IMO. CasparRH (talk) 23:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Methodical? 

message: Seeking consensus on a relatively minor point: There is a link in the "external links" section to an episode of the A&E television series American Justice entitled "To Save Their Souls".  We continually see reminders that Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files, and a simple reference in the external links section would seem to be sufficient for a straightforward documentary about List. However, another editor feels that this documentary is important enough to include a second reference in the body of the article, since some readers don't notice the external links.  Not an earthshaking disagreement, to be sure -- but it comes up in other articles every so often, so I'd like to solicit the opinions of other interested editors and go with the consensus.  Any input appreciated. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 05:59, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  How notable are documentary links? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on John List. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060321184241/http://www.goleader.com/list/ to http://www.goleader.com/list/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060321184241/http://www.goleader.com/list/ to http://www.goleader.com/list/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 2 external links on John List. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111116171738/http://www.fbi.gov/richmond/about-us/history-1/history to https://www.fbi.gov/richmond/about-us/history-1/history
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050711080638/http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/list/1.html to http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/list/1.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120222130610/http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=2613 to http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=2613
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: What on Earth is “…ran a car pool for shut-in church members” supposed to mean? Use international English please instead of some local slang. As it currently stands it is utter nonsense!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.0.240.168 (talk) 07:59, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: “…ran a car pool for shut-in church members”

message: I did some vacationing in Michigan and there was a case in Frankenmuth where I traveled from the area of Bronner's Christmas Wonderland to the military museum in the same town; I mention this because that how I came across List Street.  This isn't that far from Bay City, cited here on Wikipedia as where John List the mass murderer was from.  I also understand that the local Lutheran church at Frankenmuth is of Missouri Synod. Carlm0404 (talk) 00:30, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  a street called List Street 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 02:39, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: John List (serial killer) →  – This matter had been commented upon in December 2012 by User:Michaelh2001. The simpler and more appropriate parenthetical qualifier would seem to be "(murderer)". — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:26, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

text: Robert Anderson (murderer), William Bradford (murderer), Vernon Brown (murderer), Matthew Hoffman (murderer), Josh Phillips (murderer), Ronald Phillips (murderer), Craig Price (murderer), Juan Segundo (murderer), Eric Smith (murderer) or Melvin White (murderer), to name but ten. If consensus prefers John List (serial killer) → John List (mass murderer) per James Holmes (mass murderer) or Luis Monge (mass murderer), who likewise killed his family, I would support such a form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 14:13, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 18 August 2022 

message: The article says that on the day of the murders, John Emil List went to the high school "to watch his elder son John Frederick, 15, play in a soccer game," but there is no evidence to support this. In their podcast about the case, Father Wants Us Dead, Rebecca Everett and Jessica Remo state that it is uncertain whether List Sr. picked John Frederick up at the game or he was dropped off at home by someone else. No mention of List Sr. watching the game, and it seems rather out-of-character for him to do so. CasparRH (talk) 14:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Jr. soccer game