Talk:Thunder Bay

message: Source for climate data:
Link—Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.211.25.204 (talk • contribs) 
:The reason I posted the cities link is because right on it it points to environment canada's link. Which meant you didn't have to post such a long link. --Djsasso 19:52, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Climate data 

message: Where are the 2004 figures from? they do not correspond with the Statistics Canada site which estimates CMA as 127, 100 for 2004.--BrentS 15:07, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population 

message: Was Thunder Bay a WWII target? I heard it was, which seems logical, as it was a major trading spot between Canada and the US, as well as the grain capital in the world. Anyone know if this is true?--Richard 01:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thunder Bay was not a major trading spot between Canada and the US. It exported forest products to the U.S., that is all. Ask yourself what possible strategic interest Germany, Italy or Japan might have had in attacking Thunder Bay in the middle of the continent. Its only product of international importance was grain, and that could easily have been diverted to other ports. In any event it was much easier for Germany and Japan to attack shipping convoys closer to home on the North Atlantic and Pacific. However, it did produce airplanes at the Canadian Car and Foundry Company plant, so it is possible the Luftwaffe might have given momentary thought to it as a target, but how easy would it have been to get to the middle of the continent without being detected?. This would take work in German archives to determine if true. Or check some of the official government histories of the Canadian air force to see if there is any mention of German offensive plans against Canada. The Nazi Navy was able to target ships in the Gulf of St Lawrence and the lower St Lawrence with their submarines. Once the British had radar, the Luftwaffe was in trouble. BrentS 02:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I heard that during the cold war, there was a threat of Russian nukes? Vidioman 11:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WWII target 

message: no pictures of Fort William?
(If you mean the end of town) I don't live in Fort William, and having just a bike it was difficult to go there often. I have some pictures of buildings downtown though. You can add your own if you like.
(If you mean the historical park) I don't have any of those as I haven't been there in years. You can add your own if you like.
Vidioman 02:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: If anyone can provide a source that proves who Richard Barney is, why he is worth of being listed, please do so. Thanks. Vidioman 02:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's definitely vandalism. --Djsasso 02:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Richard Barney 

message: I made a "list of people from Thunder Bay" article, so notables should be trimmed down to people who are really notable. We have 60 right now (tied with Calgary. :)) and 100 on the main article; I'd say bring it down to around 40? Vidioman 02:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notables 

message: I have placed the review on hold as these need fixing:
#"referendum held on June 23rd, 1969" - "1969" should be wikilinked. Dates that have the day, month & year or have the day & month should be linked. There are years in the Geography, Sports and Economy sections which need to be unlinked.
#"is immense - about 22.5 kilometres" — the 'minus dash' after "immense" should be replaced by an 'em dash'. Read Dash for the correct use of dashes. There may be other dashes in the article which need fixing.
#The use of lists should be minimised in non-list articles. The lists in the Culture, Print Media and Post-Secondary Institutions sections could be replaced by prose.
#It might be better to give the Broadcast Media list its own article.
#The number of people in the Notables section could be reduced and the list replaced by prose.
#Each of he notables need an inline citation. The section should maybe be renamed Notable residents.
#The external links should be removed from the Online News section. External links only belong in the External links section.
#Surrounding Municipalities should be a subsection of Geography.
#Every fact in the article needs to be able to be verified by readers. Most paragraphs in the article will need at least one inline citation.
Let me know when these are fixed or if you disagree with any. Epbr123 13:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wikilinked 1969, and checked for other dates. I'll double check. ; I changed the - to an — , couldn't find any others but I will double check that also ; converted the lists in culture, print media and Post Secondary Institutions to prose ; I can't decide on a separate article for media, I don't think it is important enough but if you feel the article will be better with one than I'll agree with your decision. I reduced the number of notables listed and changed the list to prose ; I moved the media external links to the proper section and removed a few others, I'll double check for more ; I moved surrounding municipalities to geography but wasn't sure if it should get a header or now (I think it would look awkward with one; most articles have the surround municipalities chart near the bottom of the article) ; I will go through pages I have bookmarked and add sources where possible. Vidioman 17:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent work so far. Its probably best to leave the Broadcast Media list as it is for the moment. Ideally, there should be an article on the broadcast media in Ontario which this article could link to. Epbr123 18:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The standard practice for Canadian locations has been that each province has a list of all of its television stations and a list of all of its radio stations, while each city has either a separate media list or a media section in its main article grouping media that are specific to that city. What you're suggesting here would be unworkable, as a single Ontario-wide media article would be far too long to be either useful or manageable. The broadcasting system here isn't like the system you know in Great Britain; 21st century media consolidation notwithstanding, the historic structure of North American broadcasting is much more independent and locally-oriented and not so easily merged into province-wide articles. (And, for that matter, Thunder Bay is a bit unusual even in the context of media consolidation — it's the only major Canadian city left where it's still the norm for media to be owned locally rather than by national chains.) Bearcat 02:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant that the list of media in Ontario could be subdivided by city, as in List of schools in Kent. Its a way of removing lists from city articles. Epbr123 08:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: While it's not universal, it is becoming increasingly common for cities' media lists to be spun off into a separate article from the main city article. See :Category:Lists of media by city. Bearcat 02:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA review

message: I want to know your opinions on changing the reference system from the  format to the  format. The  format can be bulky but it will provide a more organized, uniform look to the references and make filling out citations easier. If we're going to change them, it would be better to do it now while there are only a few dozen references to change, as opposed to a later date when there may be a hundred. Vidioman 22:16, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's my subjective opinion: I prefer  for their added flexibility in cases where a citation just doesn't fit into the normal templates. I also find the citation templates more technically arduous. Making the references look more uniform would be good, but that can be done with mixed ref-tag and citation-template usage. If someone adds a good citation, I don't really care which format they use. Good ref-tag citations should look pretty much the same as a citation-template anyway (in the article, not in the edit screen of course). This article's citations are pretty deficient, but that's because they don't follow citation guidelines, not a result of their using ref tags. -Agyle 22:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: I removed "Through the 19th and 20th century the area was commonly referred to as the "Head of the Lakes" or the Lakehead." At the end of the introductory paragraph, there was already a sentence covering this. These terms were NOT used in the 19th century - Thunder Bay was used. Find me one example from a 19th century publication where "lakehead" or "Lakehead" was used. Lakehead came into use as an abbreviation for head of the lakes after WWI during the 1920s. Head of the lakes as a term is also claimed by Duluth, Minnesota --BrentS 14:35, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lakehead 

message: There are a couple books I recently checked out of the library, I don't know if two would be enough for a further reading section though? Perhaps we could start a History of Thunder Bay page and add these and the other book citation there, as it isn't exactly citing anything? I'm going to try and get some more books in the coming days. I'd suggest other editors do the same, I tried looking for Rivalry to Unity but couldn't find it at Brodie at the time.
*Campbell, George (1981). The Town That Arrested A Train. Guide Printing and Publishing.
*Tronrud, Thorold J. (1993). Guardians of Progress: Boosters & Boosterism in Thunder Bay, 1870–1914. Thunder Bay Historical Museum Society. .
vid 14:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further reading 

message: From the information on wikipedia concerning Fort William, we have this bit of information...
 In 1803 the Nor'Westers abandoned Grand Portage and established a new fur trading post, near Fort Kaministiquia on the Kaministiquia River on land acquired from the Ojibwe by written agreement 30 July 1798. In addition Canadian fur traders had been forced to abandon Grand Portage as their centre of operations when that area was ceded to the United States after the American Revolution, and to avoid American taxes the trading post was moved to what became Fort William on the Canadian side of the border.[1].
This should be merged with the current information on Thunder Bay ?
--Caesar J. B. Squitti  :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 21:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, its in the Fort William article which is linked to in the History section of Thunder Bay. This page really should only have the history concerning the creation of the city of Thunder Bay itself and on. With obvious reference to the Fort William and Port Arthur articles for older information. --Djsasso 21:56, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of Fort William, part of Thunder Bay. 

message: move (as a result of a later discussion at Talk:Thunder Bay (disambiguation)#Rename pages). 
As part of the WP:CANCITY project, I'd like to initiate a discussion about the naming of this page. While I'm not yet prepared to formally nominate this article for a move to the undisambiguated title Thunder Bay, I'd like to solicit opinions about the viability of such a move. To clarify, disambiguation pages are meant to serve as markers to distinguish between items that could otherwise occupy the same title; they're not meant as a list of all topics on Wikipedia with the words "Thunder Bay" in their names, which is what the plain title Thunder Bay is currently being used for.
Out of all the items on that page, the following are the only ones that could validly be moved to the plain title:
* Thunder Bay, Ontario, the city
* Thunder Bay (Ontario), the bay on which the city is located,
* Thunder Bay (electoral district), a defunct electoral district which used to serve the city,
* Thunder Bay (Michigan), a small bay on Lake Huron,
* Thunder Bay (film).
All of the other items on the list could never be moved to the plain title, and hence are not primary usages that can enter into the decision. We can also rule out the Ontario bay and the electoral district as primary usages, since they're both subordinate topics to the city. Which leaves only the city, the film and the Michigan bay as potential primary topics — and I believe that the city has a pretty strong claim over the bay (which is smaller than the Ontario bay, and thus wouldn't be a primary usage even if the two bays were the only topics under debate) or the film (which, all due respect to Jimmy Stewart, isn't exactly a famous film that could compete as primary topic with a major regional hub city of over 100,000 people.)
And, for the record, although there are occasional exceptions, the city is the intended topic for the vast majority of erroneous links to the dab page, as well as the only topic of the bunch which has, or could possibly have, a corresponding category of its own. 
Any other input? Bearcat (talk) 01:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with your assessment. An internet search for "Thunder Bay" yields results whose first 200 hits are almost exclusively related to the city. Although not definitive, it strongly suggests that the city is the primary usage of the term. The electoral district is clearly subordinate to the city, the two bays are not nearly as notable, which leaves the film as the only other possibility. As you've stated, this film isn't in the same league as the city. By the way, the rule you specify for dab pages isn't entirely accurate - if, say, a sports team is exclusively known by the city name instead of a nickname, it may qualify as a good entry on a dab page listed at the plain title. I can't think of a convincing example of this, but FC Eindhoven and A.C. Milan are close (the latter, for example, is often referred to as Milan, the name of the city in which it is based). However, the city would almost certainly be placed at the plain title, so the point is moot. Mindmatrix 16:46, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I came to the same google results as Mindmatrix.  The city would appear to be the clear primary use of the term.  Skeezix1000 (talk) 19:47, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

text: My initial reaction to a move idea was "no" but the above arguments are convincing to me. The city was, of course, named after the bay but the PRIMARYUSAGE of the term is now clearly the city. DoubleBlue (Talk) 02:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible renaming

message: Hi,
I learned for the first time how to look up revisions and view a history of changes on Wikipedia!  I never knew what happened behind the scenes, and today I realized there is much more going on than I had initially assumed.
Kris.
:You should always check the revision page before using a Wikipedia article, to see if anything has been tampered with before you visited. Most articles you will visit won't be vandalized but it happens occasionally and it doesn't hurt to check. vıdıoman 10:34, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great Experience... 

message: Often history is incorrect, or at least full of missing truths.
According to the presentation at Grand Portage, the trading fort was moved into Canada, when after land surveyors found "the fort' was located in the USA, trade through Canada to Britian was subject to taxes....
So 'they' moved the Fort into Canada...
This is missing....(although this information is found at the site for The Fort....
--Caesar J.B. Squitti: Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti (talk) 13:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old Fort William and the Grand Portage connection. 

message: A picture of St Andrews Presb. appears in the article  this church is not listed under places of worship? It would seem a large metro area such as this would have many places of worship, is it prudent to list a select few, the author of the article deems noteworthy?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chazran (talk • contribs) 16:44, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Places of Worship 

message: The true population of metropolitan Thunder Bay is actually quite a bit larger than 121,596.  Statistics Canada does not include populations from the "Unincorporated Areas" even though these areas are home to people who are part of the commuter-shed of Thunder Bay and, thus, should be included in the CMA population.
It is difficult to estimate the exact number of persons living in the "Thunder Bay District Unincorporated Area" who should be included within the Thunder Bay CMA, since it is such a vast area.  However, it is likely that several thousand persons, many of whom live in trailer-parks up the Copenhagen Road and so-on, should be included.
Gorham Township.  Ware Township.  These 2 unincorporated townships (including the village of Lappe) contain thousands of people as well.  Yet Statistics Canada does not enumerate them.  Why, I don't know.  They just don't.
Anyway, suffice it to say that I have studied the issue of under-counting Northwestern Ontario municipal populations by Statistics Canada, and I can say with confidence that Thunder Bay has a much larger metropolitan population than that which Statistics Canada is willing to publish.
At the minimum, I estimate that Thunder Bay has a metro population of at least 135,000.  However, I would venture  that the correct number could be as high as 150,000 persons.
We just don’t know.
--Atikokan (talk) 02:14, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently, 93 percent of the census metropolitan area is actually unincorporated land with a population of 5,900 – see Unorganized Thunder Bay District. This is the amount of residents of these communities, so it is actually only probably about now 126,000. However, Statistics Canada does not credit unincorporated municipalities for metropolitan areas or population centres, so officially these communities are not part of Thunder Bay's metropolitan centre. Unless changes regarding this are proposed, then I see no reason for the metropolitan area statistics to be changed. TBrandley (what's up) 03:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metropolitan area actually quite a bit larger in population 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Thunder Bay. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20051105012756/http://www.scc-csc.gc.ca:80/aboutcourt/judges/laskin/index_e.asp to http://www.scc-csc.gc.ca/AboutCourt/judges/laskin/index_e.asp
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Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 10:31, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Thunder Bay. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070927202727/http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/city.asp?dest=Thunder+Bay+ON to http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/city.asp?dest=Thunder+Bay+ON
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 22:25, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified