Talk:Kvens of the past/Archive 2

message: There is still one ancient Kvenland reference missing from the article. Abbot Nikolaos from the the monastery at Thingeyrar in Northern Iceland is known to have mentioned Kvenland in his publication about European geography. According to the very short remark, there would have been "two Kvenlands" seemingly somewhere "north of Bjarmia". Possibly a very convoluted remark, but nevertheless about Kvenland. I have been hesitant to add this to the article since I have not been able to find the related content in the public domain. In my opinion, adding content that can not be immediately cross-referenced is not very welcome, since it seems to have created plenty of chaos in the past.
If someone knows a reliable server that is hosting the content in question in any language, kindly let me know. --Drieakko 18:09, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abbot Nikolaos' Kvenland from 1157 

message: Below are two comments from Talk:Kven that suggest to move this article to Kvenland. Since the redirect page Kvenland is protected this need to be done by an administrator.Labongo 10:13, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the page has been unprotected it can be moved now. I think Kvenland would be a better name.Labongo 08:31, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kvenland is still a protected redirect. --Drieakko 08:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move this article to Kvenland 

message: Dear Editor, since you have been involved in editing the Kven, Kven language, or Kvens of the past articles in the last months, articles that have been disputed in the last ten months, your name is listed in the Request for Arbitration on this matter. You can make a statement here: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Kven-users. Best regards, Fred-Chess 16:17, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A message to the user known as Steve Wondering, Digi Wiki, Art Dominique, and possibly other names 

message: To user Fred-Chess:  We tried the route you suggest already before, remember.  You indeed have been one of the major causes of chaos here - please check the archive.  
Despite of numerous requests, you kept pushing false information, and - of course - you were persistant in not providing sources.  Then you sort of apologized for your behavior only a couple of months ago, for which we salute you.  - - Steve Wondering
:::User Labongo:
:::Your view is not a "generally accepted" view at all, but only your view.
:::We hope you agree, that it is not reasonable to request for us to have to provide evidence to everyone separately.  Please check the archive for the beginners. 
:::There is a reason why we are asking for the exact quotes and exact - easily verifiable (as Mr. Mikkalai put it) - book and page information from you.  The reason is, that simply showing a list of authors and books proves nothing.  Wikipedia's vandals and foul players are known to resort to exactly this sort of tactics.  
:::Once again:  The sources offered do not agree with the text written in the Kven article !  To understand this, you only have to read the last comments by the user Drieakko.  As everyone can see, he continues backing up from his statements.  In different ways, he goes on apologizing, while he attempts to round of his false statements.  What does that prove:  This is only a learning processs to him.  He really doesn't have anything to contribute to this topic, except for chaos ! 
:::User Labongo/Drieakko:  It is your job to show where exactly someone - a respected and known historian or other scientist - agrees with your text.  The burden of proof is in your hands to show evidence.  Please, include exact quote(s) and page information.  That is how Mr. Mikkalai wanted to proceed, after a recent concensus was reached. 
:::We are quite familiar with the related material in question.  We have provided our sources in detail, you have not, not even a single quote with a matching book and page information.  - - Steve Wondering
::::Pälä pälä, as we say in Finland. You just keep repeating yourself, without making any new points. After the modifications made by Drieakko himself and by others, the present article does not push any "radical new theory". It is just describing the sources and summarizes efficiently the different theories made by established scholars, including Kyösti Julku. It is now much more NPOV than the version you wrote using the name "Digi Wiki".217.112.242.181 20:55, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, find an answer to you below:  - - What on earth 11:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The comment by 'Steve Wondering was also posted in Talk:Kven and discussion should continue there.Labongo 06:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: User Drieakko continues backing away from his outrageous writings, as we figured he would

message: To the user Drieakko:  That "vulgar language" part - women's private part - was an exact quote used by the accused, and copied and pasted here from a past comment.  
You have been accused to be that very person, remember.  That part of the text was now removed - nevertheless -, to please you.  So now, allow the comment to be posted, please !
Furthermore, the first comment (of the two) is not entirely the same at all as the one in the related discussion.  Do not remove it, or any other comments !
--> the comments in question have been re-entered below ! 
What on earth 11:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: User Drieakko - with multiple names - removes comments that criticize him

message: By the end of the gone spring you already approved the Diki Wiki's text (just like Mr. Mikkalai and others as well).  However, You stated, that you were still - perhaps - not fully satisfied.  You have contradicted yourself in the past as well, remember.
You yourself appear to have learned from the practices of KGB - it seems -, that continuing to repeat lies can make the lies appear as the truth.  Furthermore, you appear to be very hard headed.  That is the reason why we sometimes have to keep bringing up the same matters and facts, from time to time.  The same questions keep surfacing.  As you have noticed, we have also asked you to check the archive, as in the above comment, and we repeat:'''
"We hope you agree, that it is not reasonable to request for us to have to provide evidence to everyone separately.  Please check the archive for the beginners."'''
Regarding "Sitoni / Sithoni, etc.:  Another Professor Emeritus (other than Julku), Unto Salo, spells the word in question "Sithoni".  
Perhaps you'll understand this:  Älkäämme takertuko pikkuseikkoihin, matkallamme suuriin päämääriin !
The above statement hits the point with you very well, and we'll repeat:  "We have provided our sources in detail, you have not, not even a single quote with a matching book and page information."
When you were asked for sources in the past - even a single detailed source -, you refused.  You explained that you were not going to do our homework for us.  Why not do your own homework at least.
The archive shows many cases of you vandalism.  Below is just one past comment clearly revealing some of the serious types of foul play practiced by you - all unacceptable in Wikipedia -, including also misquotations by you, followed by your admitting of guilt comment in the end.  
The Finnish Wikipedia shows your temper as well, including your swearing by the women's private parts (the given example was removed from here, per the request by the user Drieakko).
Conclusion:  You are a proven and admitted vandal and a trouble maker in wikipedia.  A list of some of your user names can be found from a related discussion (but who really cares).
What on earth 11:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: User [[User:217.112.242.181|217.112.242.181]] is a proven and admitted vandal

message: "Below are three misquotations by user 217.30.179.130, from his unsigned message above (his previously used IP address 130.234.75.167 shows that the message is his): 
Claim Number One: "Tavastians (a group of Southern Finns) were present on the Arctic Ocean alreydy during the Viking Age".
Claim Number Two: "Some believe that the Kvens were the original inhabitants of Northern Norway".
Claim Number Three: " According to Ottar, the Kvens were living in Northern Norway and around the White Sea".
When you choose to quote someone, please use the copy and paste technique.  No one has said any of the three sentences above.  You simply changed the wording, to make up goofy sounding sentences, which you claim some one actually wrote.  
Please, explain:  When and where were those sentences written ?  You are simply participating in vandalism, aren't you.  
You've also changed the content of a comment written by another Wikipedia user to this discussion page (and we do not mean you placing your responses between the lines, although for that too you ought to ask a permission from the writer of the comment).
At 13:45, 19 March 2006, using the IP address 130.234.5.136 you added the following sentence to the text which another Wikipedia user had written under the headline Lack of public funding a major cause for lack of information:
"It's not going to happen, however."  You did not return to fix that act of vandalism which you published as a page http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kven&oldid=44501610.
You did not write that sentence in italic text, nor did you margin that sentence with your text, as you did all your other parts of your comments.  Purposely or not, you made it appear as if the other party would have written that comment.  
From here on - to avoid further such temptations and/or accidents - please refrain from placing your comments in between the lines written by other participants on this discussion forum.  The above mentioned particular insert of yours has as of yesterday been changed to reflect the fact that it is a part of your response, and not a part of the text of the other party.
Wikipedians against vandalism, March 22, 2006
:Comment from the guilty party:  I apologize for misquoting. ..."   - - -> (this was your answer.  It continued ...)
This past message was pasted here by What on earth 11:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Art Dominique. Kindly stop this kind of posts. They make no common sense any more. --Drieakko 12:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism by [[User:217.30.179.130|217.30.179.130]] (a comment from the archive)

message: Hi.
The ongoing Arbitration suggestion might result in sanctions for you. And even worse it may be if you refuse to state your own case. You may be hard-block indefinitely. 
Maybe you feel uncomfortable with the Wikipedia processes and buearucracy? If so, I want to suggest the Ass. of Member Advocates, a assosiation of volounteers that can assist in questions about policy and practices. You can ask an advocate to help you write a response to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration. It would be in the interest of everyone to have statements from all involved parts. See Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance to request an advocate.
Fred-Chess 15:03, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion for Art Dominique / Digi Wiki / Steve Wondering  

message: Torne Valley, the extreme Northern Norway and today's Kainuu were all part of Kvenland.  That is why the languages and accents spoken in those areas at the present day are so closely related to each others.
This is not - and was not - changed considerably by the fact that migration to the historic Kvenland areas from the modern-day areas of Häme and Savo in Finland took place.  
As in other cases of migration usually, the newcomers acquire the language and/or the accent of the locals, not the other way around.  - - Stimulater 13:11, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Torne Valley, Northern Norway and today's Kainuu were all part of Kvenland

message: In 1230 - 1240 AD, in Egils saga - presumably by Snorri Sturluson (1179-1241 A.D.) - discusses Faravid, the King of Kvenland (source:  KVENLAND / KAINUUNMAA, 1986, page 73 - includes a picture of an old manuscript - Professor Emeritus Kyösti Julku).
- - Steve Wondering 10:52, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Fred-Chess, please tell your opinion how to act on posts like this that are spammed on multiple forums with no intention to initiate any discussions. --Drieakko 10:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Another missing Kven king source added:  Faravid

message: In 1230 AD, in the introduction to the Orkneyinga Saga, Fundinn Noregr discusses Fornjótr, the King of Finland and Kvenland and the conquest of Norway by his son, Nórr (source:  KVENLAND / KAINUUNMAA, 1986, page 61 - includes the Icelandic and Finnish spellings of the original text -, Professor Emeritus Kyösti Julku). 
Based on the information given in this saga, the ruling families of Sweden, Norway, the Orkney Islands, Normandy, and England descend from these Finnish and/or Kven kings.
In contrary to what the user Drieakko claims, there is no mentioning about Gotland in this context.  The text is very clear and quite easily readable and understandable to all Scandinavians, and in particular to those who can understand the modern-day Icelandic language.
- - Steve Wondering 11:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is nowadays linked to the original text of Hversu and Fundinn Noregr (Orkneyinga saga), and the name of Gotland is clearly visible alongside of Kvenland and Finland. Has Professor Julku has manipulated the text in his book?217.112.242.181 18:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think there is a version of Orkneyinga saga around by an unknown scribe that has already polished the confusing "Gotland" away from the text. Julku has just selected that version for his own publication, not mentioning that it is not the commonly accepted original. All versions of Hversu mention Gotland, though. Julku conveniently leaves Hversu unreferenced in his book. --Drieakko 19:13, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: This convoluted mention of Gotland and Finland/Kvenland under the same rule a long time ago might actually have happened. During 0 - 200 CE most of the coastal area of Varsinais-Suomi was inhabited by settlers that had come either from eastern Sweden or Gotland. They vanished by 400 CE. It is also noteworthy that both mentions of Finland in Ynglingasaga roughly date during that period, the other one of them describing Old Snow as a powerful man in Finland who married his daughter off to the king of Sweden. The same Old Snow is then mentioned in Orkneyinga and Hversu, that both give an unexplained reference to Gotland. This is all very speculative but makes certain sense and ties most of the pieces together. This would mean then that stories of Finland in Ynglingasaga and Kvenland in Orkneyinga and Hversu actually describe people that were from Gotland and ruling in Finland/Kvenland. In addition to this, there are no mentions of Finland in sagas at all, and Kvenland appears only in Egil's saga (and then one mention about Kvens as raiders). --Drieakko 19:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yet another missing Kven king source added:  Fornjótr

message: To the user 217.112.242.181:
Another Professor Emeritus (other than Julku), Unto Salo, spells the word in question "Sithoni".
Perhaps you'll understand this: Älkäämme takertuko pikkuseikkoihin, matkallamme suuriin päämääriin !   - - what on earth 12:55, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kindly continue this discussion in Talk:Sitones. --Drieakko 13:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding spelling of "Sitoni" / Sithoni, etc.

message: User Labongo states:  "your requests for references have been answered hundreds of times."
Notice, how again you present a hopelessly goofy claim, user Labongo.  Can you show us one such occasion where what we have been after has been offered to us, in terms of quotes and the related page informaiton ?
No one has asked as an attachment for the Kven text a list of references which disagree with the information offered.  This is the absurd case now.
We need to see where exactly those offered sources agree with the written text offered in the Kven article.  Those sort of pinpointed and exact - easily verifiable (as Mr. Mikkalai wants) - quotes and sources are offered in several key points of the Diki Wiki's text.  For us to ask you to understand the difference in that approach is too much to hope for, it appears.  
You appear to be too young for this sort of conversation, it seems safe to state.  
In the case of user Driakko's text that sort of showing of exact book and page information and - importantly user Labongo - exact quotes on those pages from known and credited historians and/or other scientist cannot be provided.
Read the bold text from the above sentence.  That is what is wanted, not what you claim that has been requested !  Please, read what our messages exactly say.  After you have done that, please stop setting words in the mouths of others, and particularly in the mouths of historians in relation to the Kven text. 
Perhaps just for you - and the types of you - it is important to repeat yet one more time:  We have never asked - and we are not asking now, and we shall not ask in the future - a list of related books an/or historians who have written about the topic.  Instead, we are asking for it to be pointed out where exactly those given sources agree with text pushed for Wikipedia.
We are familiar with the sources offered.  They appear to disagree with the text of user Drieakko !
What part of the word "disagree" do you find hard to understand ?
Wikipedians against vandalism 12:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The user Labongo attempts to distort the truth the following way

message: Someone above (Drieakko/(Labongo) offered us a source which - according to them -  was "written by someone".  They added, that this shoud satify the need for the requested sources by Steve Wondering (and others).  However, a source "written by someone" does not point to a reliable source which Mr. Mikkalai and us others have been after.  Please, do not offer something as ridiculous as that for a reference !
We suggest that you do as was agreed and concluded in the wide consensus reached by all participants of this forum during April and May (also in early June) of this year.  No changes in the "Diki Wiki" Kven article can be made without proper and detailed references !  That text must be the starting point for any discussions.
Please, do not forget to provide the exact quotes and page numbers of the sources offered for any requested change or addition for the Diki Wiki's Kven text !  You are expected to suggest such possible changes and/or to discuss the content of the Diki Wiki Kven text on this discussion page.  - - Swedish girl 09:15, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Art Dominique/Steve Wondering/Swedish girl/Digi Wiki/Kven kings/Stimulator/Wikipedians against vandalism etc. has an interesting gender identity! Howevere, the Finnish ultra-nationalist posing as a Swedish girl should realize that it is highly unlikely that Digi Wiki´s version will be back. Artie baby, if you want modifications, you need to start co-operating. So, please, stop the reverting campaign, cut down insults, and stop that silly sock-puppeting, which is not fooling ANYONE. Frankly, you are a huge embarassment for the rest of us Finnish wikipedians. You'll be able to do better, so...in the language of our ancestors...miehisty. Kraak 12:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I would also like to see an end to this meaningless and embarrasing posting. The so-called "Digi Wiki" article written by a banned sock puppet User:Digi_Wiki is very far from the Wikipedia level text, whatever the same user's newest sock puppets claim. --Drieakko 15:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Diki Wiki text must remain the starting point for any changes/additions requested

message: Please realize that the current and the past Kvens represent a one and the same group of people, and thus they must be presented under one headline:  Kven (also Kvens, etc.).  That one article must - of course - also deal with the history of the Kvens, in the light and the findings of known science (the sources must be clearly presented in detail).
The past Kvens and the modern-day Kvens are very closely related to each other, genealogically, culturally, linguistically - and every which way - as has been thoroughly proven in this discussion page (page history shows that, although some of you folks (Leifern / Drieakko) appear to have deleted a whole lot of comments from there, particularly those comments that prove the current text false.
The Jews ought to - perhaps - not be presented as a one group of people in Wikipedia, as they are a very mixed group of people, who necessarily - as often is the case - do not share much more common together than their religion.
- - Steve Wondering 13:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh. Kindly present your genealogical proof about ancient Kvens. You seem to know their language as well. --Drieakko 04:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Answers to that have been given already.  Below please find yet another reason why the past and the current Kvens are also genealogically related, and closely so.  --What on earth 05:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The modern-day and the past Kvens must be presented under one headline

message: Please, do not resort to these sort of tactics, user Driakko.  You are not allowed to archive posts as soon as they are posted here.  We could also archive or delete all your comments as soon as you post them.
Those above comments and the ones you removed and/or deleted have not received enough airtime.  One minute is not long enough for anyone to view those comments, not even a day.  Some comments reverted back here were not even archived at all.  That is why they must be brought back for readers' review.  --What on earth 05:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There has been no special archiving of your posts as you can see in the archive history. However, spamming the same post multiple times on this and/or other talk pages is frowned upon, as well as copying random chunks of old posts back to the talk page from the archives. --Drieakko 13:32, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Do not acrhive messages as soon as they are posted

message: You have not red the past messages, user Drieakko.  You are too busy deleting and archiving the messages posted here, before anyone gets to read them.
It was shown in detail in this forum before - place by place, town by town - that all the Northern Norwegian Kven communities received their migration waves from the areas of the historic Kvenland.  The migrants - of course - brought their genes with them, wouldn't you have ?  --What on earth 05:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kindly talk about these migrations in Talk:Kven. --Drieakko 13:14, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The past and the current Kvens are related in every which way

message: Article about birkarls now has some aspects related to the matter of ancient Kvens. --Drieakko 05:11, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birkarls 

message: User Leifern:  Do not resort to deleting comments from this or any other discussion pages.  The "history pages" reveal that you have done this sort of vandalism in the past as well.
Among others, you have deleted a number of comments from this discussion page from May and June this year.  Those comments - as well as you related deletions - clearly prove your vandal acts which fight against the nature and the rules of Wikipedia.
Please realize that the current and the past Kvens represent a one and the same group of people, and thus they must be presented under one headline:  Kven (also Kvens, etc.).  That one article must - of course - shortly describe the history of the Kvens, in the light and the findings of known science (the sources must be clearly presented in detail).
The past Kvens and the modern-day Kvens are very closely related to each other, genealogically, culturally, linguistically - and every which way - as has been thoroughly proven in this discussion page (page history shows that, although you appear to have deleted a whole lot of messages from there, particularly those that criticize your vandal acts).
The Jews ought to - perhaps - not be presented as a one group of people in Wikipedia, as they are a very mixed group of people, who necessarily - as often is the case - do not share much more common together than their religion.
- - Steve Wondering 13:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: More or less the same message has been posted just above this one, with the same comments about the Jews. --Drieakko 18:00, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: User Leifern keeps on deleting discussion comments

message: There is no evidence that the modern Kvens would not be direct descendants of the Kvenland's Kvens mentioned in historic sources.  --Kvenland's daughters 15:57, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This must be Steve Wondering again, trying to give an impression that his POV has wide support among the users of Wikipedia.Kraak 06:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. His aim seems to be make a mess out of talk pages. He posted the messages above as User:Derbigum but signed them as User:Kvenland's daughters and User:Kvenar eller inte. --Drieakko 07:24, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I know suspicially many "kvens" that arrived in the Sami regions also knew the Sami language quite well in addition to their Finnish dialect. In many Sami regions they blended seamlessly into the local Sami communities. It appear to me that the Kvens where well aquainted with the Sami culture else why so little problems with the intigration. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by XiXaXo (talk • contribs) 17:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Modern Kvens are provably descendants of the historic Kvens

message: Art Dominique (and your many sock puppets), kindly read WP:NPA and try to understand that all messages that are attacks against other users will be moderated. According to Wikipedia rules, they are never allowed. No exceptions. Also random actions on Talk pages will be removed. Copying dozens of archived posts back to talk pages here and elsewhere while randomly deleting current posts will also be reverted. Kindly make posts that stay on the subject without trying to intimidate or humiliate other users. Your contributions to discussions are ok and welcome. But please try to calm yourself down. Thank you.
It would also be appreciated, if you bothered to reply at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Kven/Evidence. --Drieakko 18:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Message to Art Dominique 

message: This is a side issue, but I have doubts about linking this article to the Consolidation of Sweden. That term usually means integration of Svear and Götar to a single state of Sweden. Sweden was Sweden when Finland was under its rule and it remained Sweden when entire Finland 1809 was annexed by Russia. --Drieakko 03:50, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this is difficult question. When Sweden was consolidated? According to one view, already in the late Viking Age, according to another, only during the mid 13th century. If the latter view is accepted, one could say that the "conquest" of Finland was a part of the "consolidation" of the medieval Swedish kingdom, which was not the same thing as the post-1809 Sweden.--217.112.242.181 10:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, a difficult question. Sweden as an identity, Sweden proper and kingdom of Sweden all basically being different things. Inhabitants of Finland had for centuries full civil rights in Sweden (being part of the "Sweden proper" that controlled the kingdom of Sweden), but the identity of Sweden was never dependant on whether Finland was a part of Sweden or not. This identity was created by the unification of Svear and Götar. IMHO, consolidation of Sweden means the process to create the identity of Sweden. --Drieakko 10:58, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would even despute that. The modern Swedish identity is for a large part the result of the psychological trauma associated with the loss of Finland, and the resulting turn to Scandinavism. -- Petri Krohn 20:24, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, that sounds tempting ;) But some more evidence should be given about that. --Drieakko 14:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consolidation of Sweden 

message: The below statement in the present Kvenland text is among some of the most untrue statements offered there:
"There was a clear need to have a distinct name for the Finns in the north, since Norwegians, unlike their neighbors, already called the Sami people "Finns" and using the same name for the Finns on the same area might have been confusing."
The above false theory has been shown wrong many a time, and the appropriate sources have been presented.  The Finns were called Finns, Fennis, etc.  Sometimes those terms can be seen to have been used in reference to the both groups, the Finns and the Samis.  The Samis were sometimes referred to as "Sgridfinns", etc.
One doesn't have to go further than the early papal letters.  There the Finns of the extreme southwestern corner of the present-day Finland were referred to as Finns.  The detailed sources have been offered here long ago already.  Thus, lets not start this nonsense talk again.
:Ditto. --Drieakko 12:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Art Dominique, you can use this webpage http://www.dokpro.uio.no/ordboksoek.html to verify that Finn=Sami. You will also find that Finne=person from Finland. But note that Finne translated to english would be Finnish person (as Svenske is translated to Swedish person). Also, note that something is not shown many times even if you have posted multiple posts citing a single reference.Labongo 12:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: You are wrong, the latest books about sami history clearly state the connection with the "Finnas", also it is very clear that the "Finnas" in the saga texts and in the early laws of Norway refer to south sami population and the sami population in general. You may find a excellent link about the presence in the sagas and in the mythology to a article in the Sami People section by Mundel. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by XiXaXo (talk • contribs) 17:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The earlier occasionally offered theory about the term "Finn" does not stand today