Talk:Narcissistic personality disorder/Archive 1

message: The text I just submitted was approved for publication at the time by Nupedia's Psychology Editor (a professor of abnormal psychology) and was peer reviewed. It now constitutes the introductory chapter to my book on the disorder ("Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited") and I grant Wikipedia copyright permission to reproduce it and treat it as its own content in any and all ways. 
I am very interested in any feedback, ideas, comments, or corrections. I hope to learn more through the collaborative effort here. Samvak 16:06, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's just typical of the hypocrite you are Vaknin (according to your own admission), of your illusions of grandeur and the npd/sociopath character of yours, that you would litter this article with link after link to your sites, msn groups, courses etc. etc. until someone comes up and cleans this up, and then you would re-edit it  anonymously again, and again, repluging your sites, only to appear at last out of the shadows using your name claiming you are "interested" to "learn more" and make this a collaborative effort... If it weren't so pathetically obvious, it would be nauseting...And peer reviewed mind you doesn't mean some psychology professor gave the oks to have it at some encyclopedia.
You still have not explained what is actually wrong with the article. If you cannot tell us that, and feel the need to resort to personal attacks you should not be editing this talkpage. JFW | T@lk 05:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is a basic misunderstanding here. I did NOT want to post the article or anything else to Wikipedia. I was very reluctant. It took a lot of convincing by Jfdwolff to get me to do it. The article was reviewed not only by a professor of abnormal psychology -  but by an editorial board comprised of scholars in the mental health field. It was peer reviewed and approved for publication, which is more than I can say about 90% of the articles in Wikipedia. BTW, many of the assertions in the article stand in contrast to my own views!Samvak 19:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

text: 82.195.137.125, who cares? It's Wikipedia. Everyone is an expert. The peers reviewing it include you. But it was reviewed by Nupedia's psychology team, apparently. Your oppositions seem to be aimed at Vaknin rather than at his work, and I urge you to focus on the article and not on the author. JFW | T@lk 22:53, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I see you've been busy. Not a problem, but don't forget to WP:CITE. JFW | T@lk 08:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New, peer-reviwed, text 

message: JFW, most of the text of the article is copied, verbatim, with permission, from Sam Vaknin's page and book. You can check it out here - compare the article to this:
http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/npdglance.html
In view of this fact, think it is only fair to leave one single link to his Web site in the External Links.
In the External Links you left a link to Joanna Ashmun's (great) Web site. Fine. But Vaknin is at least as entitled to this as Joanna Ashmun. Both of them are not mental health professionals - but Vaknin contributed the text of the article and is recognized as an authority on narcissism (see the discussion area of this article under External Links below).
So, I suggest we maintain in the External Links section one link to each resource: Vaknin, Ashmun, MentalHealth, and Femfree.
You also removed links to Web sites that have nothing to do with Vaknin and are great resources. I restored one of them (Femfree's). Hope this is OK with you. If not, let's talk on this page. OTE 22:07, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is no link to Femfree's fantastic forum in the article. All's the pity, in my view. Grossman's excellent Web site is great - but not about NPD. It deals not only with pathological narcissism but with many other issues under the collective title of what he calls "voicelessness". Samvak 16:06, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

text: See my comment above. Is there actually something wrong with the article? JFW | T@lk 22:53, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compromise regarding External Links 

message: Good start at the Narcisistic Personality Disorder page. But it needs major wikification. Is this according to DSM-IV? In general, we should get rid of the pasive voice and replace it with more informative content. Is this disorder recognized by all psychiatrists? Clinical psychologists? Only some psychologists? Slrubenstein 
Sam: 
Thanks, Slrubenstein. Yes, as the article states, the criteria reflect the latest Text Revision of the DSM (DSM IV-TR, 2000). NPD is a personality disorder and an official diagnosis of the DSM. I am the author of a textbook on this disorder ("Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited"). Take care!
The concept of narcissistic defense is used but not defined/explained. I linked it to Defence mechanism but it should also be made explicit in the article itself what it is that narcissism serves to defend against. --84.188.151.51 02:54, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Narcisistic Personality Disorder page 

message: I added the following:
In June 2005, Brian Blackwell was convicted of the manslaughter of his parents, Sydney and Jacqueline. A team of psychiatrists who were called in to analyse him all agreed that Blackwell he had a narcissistic personality disorder.
It was subsequently though that one individual patient should receive encyclopedia coverage.
Personally I find it enlightening to hear about an individual that has the disorder in the quesitonm and the fact that he is one indivudual patient is down the rarity of the disorder.  I didn't feel as through the disorder was commonplace and i'd picked one person out of tens of thousands, more than this fairly unique case had come up and I had highlighted it.
* I don't know of any notable Narcissists myself who have been formally diagnosed (except possibly Sam Vaknin, of the Malignant Self Love book and website; he's diagnosed, but may or may not be considered "notable"), but there have been many contemporary and historical figures who are thought to have NPD: Herod Agrippa, Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Charles Manson, Howard Stern, Michael Moore, and so forth.  (The last two could be good examples of how Narcissists aren't necessarily criminally violent.)  It might be helpful and/or appropriate to include Blackwell and Vankin as diagnosed cases, and then list the projected cases with references (I only know of Moore's offhand, and can barely remember where I saw Hitler and Stalin, but it shouldn't be too difficult to find at least most of these). BobGreenwade 18:23, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Case Histories 

message: TlhInganHom was banned from all my online narcissism-related groups due to severe and repeated misbehavior. Hence his grudge and his repeated attempts to defame me and to vandalize whatever he can of my work. Samvak 16:06, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If true, than he is abusing Wikipedia. Admins and mods, take note!{Unsigned|62.162.216.57}}
This admin has taken note. So far that user has not damaged anything and is ready for open discussion. Shall we not go ad hominem here, people? JFW | T@lk 19:42, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Tlhinganhom's grudge