Talk:Synth-pop

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replies: text: Fine. Here's a request. Make it acknowledge that the spelling "synthpop" is also used. That's used in article headlines as mentioned below, and is very common.71.236.206.225 (talk) 05:21, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection 

message: I swear few months ago it was synthpop. Why change it?
::It should be 'Synthpop' if you are taking about the British music scene and British synth music a la 'Synth Britannia' on BBC: Fourhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n93c4
::"Documentary following a generation of post-punk musicians who took the synthesiser from the experimental fringes to the centre of the pop stage.
::"In the late 1970s, small pockets of electronic artists including The Human League, Daniel Miller and Cabaret Voltaire were inspired by Kraftwerk and JG Ballard, and they dreamt of the sound of the future against the backdrop of bleak, high-rise Britain".
::"The crossover moment came in 1979 when Gary Numan's appearance on Top of the Pops with Tubeway Army's Are 'Friends' Electric? heralded the arrival of synthpop. Four lads from Basildon known as Depeche Mode would come to own the new sound, whilst post-punk bands like Ultravox, Soft Cell, OMD and Yazoo took the synth out of the pages of NME and onto the front page of Smash Hits. By 1983, acts like Pet Shop Boys and New Order were showing that the future of electronic music would lie in dance music. Contributors include Philip Oakey, Vince Clarke, Martin Gore, Bernard Sumner, Gary Numan and Neil Tennant".
::It was Synthpop, because in the UK it was in the naming style of Electropop, Britpop, Eurodance et al (alternatively I suppose it would have been 'Synth. Pop' in the style of 'Alt. Rock', 'Alt. 90s' and 'Alt. 00s'https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l8k7https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l3cf or Synth Pop in the style of New Wave, Heavy Metal without the hyphen, as bizarrely the hyphen only ever seemed to be used when talking about genres that have come over from America like Hip-Hop or used instead of a slash like in the case of Hip-House i.e. 'that Beatmasters record its a bit Hip-Hop, its a bit House', though both Hip-Hop and Hip-House are now used without a hyphen on here). I also suppose it was Synthpop because it was originally a form of alternative music that became TOTP-worthy and found in the charts but not cheese (I hope I am using that hyphen in TOTP-worthy correctly!).
::However the word 'Synthpop' is handy without the hyphen when you're dealing with the online argument that "Don't You Want Me was the first synthpop Number 1". I do not have the link to the thread to hand, but some people said "Cars" was 'Proto-Synthpop' (as Numan was not 'happy, shiny poptastic POP!'), which some may agree with, some disagree with...however it becomes hard on the eyes if people are writing Proto-synth-pop and putting millions of hyphens and dashes all over the place (I suppose some other people could argue that "Cars" was not synth-pop and just 'synth', especially if that hyphen is being used as a slash... which would make "Don't You Want Me" a record that's a little bit 'synthy' and a little bit pop because its made by alt. boys who have teamed up with pop girls)
::It doesn't really matter if people want to use synthpop or synth-pop, but keep to one style guide, don't be like Wired Magazine and have a headline that says "Proto Synthpop Turned Yellow Magic Orchestra Into Godfathers of Electro" before adding "You're mistaken if you think synth-pop started with Devo. In the '70s, YMO used tools like a programmable drum machine and a synthesizer to create a unique sound" https://www.wired.com/2012/06/pl-prototype-electro/. Please keep to synthpop and electropop or synth-pop and electro-pop, don't mix it up...same goes for Hip-Hop and any other music genre where this is a problem, however being British (and from a pre-internet age of CDs and Tapes) I would go for synthpop and electropop if I was setting a style guide, though it may also be true that 'writers are overusing hyphens' these days, please see "Dash it!" by Jonathan Leake in The Sunday Times for more info on that matterhttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dash-it-writers-are-overusing-hyphen-727vphbg3  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.172.75 (talk) 14:17, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It should at least be mentioned that both spellings are used.71.236.206.225 (talk) 05:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I also think the article should be renamed to synthpop to be consistent with the spelling of related genres.. See also Talk:Synth-pop/Archive 1#Synth pop vs. Synthpop Solidest (talk) 09:53, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synth-pop? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: *He was talking about the synthesizer, not the synthpop genre.
*He reneged on his position and eventually used synthesizers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.54.92.144 (talk) 18:41, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Did he though? From what I understand after reading the There is a Light That Never Goes Out article, Johnny Marr played the synthesizer to emulate classical elements, and I believe is the only song, or one of few songs by The Smiths to feature a synthesizer, which could be because the band didn't have enough time to bring a full fledged orchestra on board, or didn't want to use one, so brought in a synthesizer to give the song classical instruments feel. The song itself is not synthpop as the synth itself does not appear until closer to the end of the song, and carries the song until is abruptly ends when it seems like it's going to slowly fade out. With the synth only being used to give the song an orchestra feel, it cannot classify as synthpop, but rather symphonic rock, which could be seen as a precursor of sorts due to it using synthesizers to give rock songs a classical feel, especially so with progressive rock bands such as Moody Blues with Nights in White Satin. Moline1 (talk) 02:05, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Morrissey quote needs removing 

message: The edit warring needs to stop! Lets discuss the optimal description here.
My view is that there is a close association between Synth-pop and New Wave but that the AllMusic reference is utterly insufficient to establish one as a subgenre of the other. It is a short description with no named author. Much better references are needed if we are to make such a definite claim. If better references can be found then I will concede the point but they would need to be proper WP:RS sources.
Plausible arguments can be made that early Synth-pop pre-dates New Wave, although their heydays are closely related. The vagueness of the term New Wave makes this hard to sort out. The association is probably the best point to make in the lead. What we need to do is start the article with an uncontroversial statement and only delve into any controversy later on. Without researching better sources I'd be recommend something like this:
"Synth-pop (short for synthesizer pop;[3] also called techno-pop[4][5]) is a genre of pop music that became prominent in the late 1970s and was closely associated with new wave music."
Of course, we need better references and if those guide us to something different then that is where we should go.
If there really is a radically different definition of the terms in the US and the UK then we need to reference this properly. We also need to remember that other countries exist and might have views on the matter too. Personally, I suspect that this is really just a difference of emphasis, not a fundamental difference in definition. --DanielRigal (talk) 18:50, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You’re absolutely correct.  Synth-pop is a standalone genre of pop music, not just a subgenre of new wave. There are many synth-pop acts who aren't new wave, and many other, smaller genres that are classified as "genres", not "subgenres". Furthermore, on the wiki page for new wave, synth-pop is listed under "derivative forms" alongside other independent genres like alternative dance, rather than under "subgenres", causing internal inconsistency. Also, the page “list of synth-pop artists” describes it as a “genre”, not “subgenre”. Even the page itself, “Synth-pop”, notes that “It arose as a distinct genre in Japan and the United Kingdom” literally two sentences later and repeatedly refers to it as a “genre”. In short, the current description is most insensible and in dire need of changing, so I shall do so at once; if anyone objects, please respond here. In order to recognise the ambiguity of the issue I shall describe it as “a genre of new wave music *or* pop music”, similar to how hi-NRG is described as a “genre of uptempo disco *or* electronic dance music (EDM).” I have also added a quote from a reliable source (which also repeatedly describes it as a “genre”, not subgenre) on synth-pop’s status describing its relation to pop music in the same league as new wave - the relationship is up for contention, so both should be included on Wikipedia instead of relying on a single source (the AllMusic page) as one does now. Janglyguitars (talk) 12:59, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: As written on the Allmusic website, synth-pop is a subgenre. UserFlash (talk) 08:34, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition, new wave music itself evolved from pop music. UserFlash (talk) 08:44, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the procedures in Wikipedia, you should have opened a new discussion and not responded to an old discussion. UserFlash (talk) 10:13, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

text: The AllMusic reference may say that, but, as put by DanielRigal, it is "utterly insufficient to establish one as a subgenre of the other." In the UK, synthpop/electropop was considered an entirely separate phenomenon from the New Wave, which referred to late 70s/early 80s punkish pop bands like Buzzcocks and The Jam. AllMusic may be widely used on Wikipedia, but it is an American site and reflects the incredibly loose American usage of the term new wave. Indeed, the other source used as a citation, the book Music in the 20th Century, does not in fact refer to synthpop as a new wave "subgenre", but rather part of the "umbrella term" usage of new wave which included "power-pop groups" as well as "myriad synthesizer-pop bands". Curiously, the Wikipedia page for power pop does not describe it as a "subgenre of new wave", nor even list new wave amongst the "stylistic origins" section of the page. For consistency's sake, it really ought to if we are to describe synthpop as a new wave subgenre, but clearly we would be mistaken in both cases. Also, note the source says "myriad synthesizer-pop bands", not "all" such bands, implying that even using the term as loosely as possible, there were still some synthpop groups who would not have qualified as new wave. This I think is inarguable, and probably the strongest reason why Wikipedia should not describe synthpop as merely a "new wave" subgenre. The 80s Eurodisco group Modern Talking, for instance, has synth-pop listed as one of its genres, but no sane person would ever claim this group had anything to do with new wave (indeed, such a group encapsulated much of what Punk/New Wave sought to destroy). Yet the reader of Modern Talking's page, clicking on synth-pop under the list of genres, is directed to a page which describes it as a "subgenre of new wave music", which is fundamentally untrue and misleading in implying that this group had any relation to new wave whatsoever. Wikipedia should not be in the business of misleading its readers like this. Synth-pop, as the name implies, is fundamentally its own genre of pop music, just like dance-pop and any number of "-pop" genres. The fact that new wave is also a form of pop music does not make them the same thing. Even the page "Category:Synth-pop new wave musical groups" describes synthpop as "a distinct genre during the new wave era of the late-1970s to the mid-1980s." For this reason, I think DanielRigal's proposal of describing synthpop as a "a genre of pop music that became prominent in the late 1970s and was closely associated with new wave music" is best, though failing that my proposal of "genre of new wave music or pop music" is reasonable as a compromise. To refer back to DanielRigal once again, the German page for synth-pop does not mention new wave at all in its lead and the French one does not claim it as a subgenre, so why should the English page be so uniquely wrongheaded? Janglyguitars (talk) 18:41, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

text: Even though it not really about the relationship between new wave and synthpop, please read 'Why Synthwave Isn’t Synthpop (And Why It Matters)' on ironskullet by Preston Avery (June 12, 2019).https://ironskullet.com/2019/06/12/why-synthwave-isnt-synthpop-and-why-it-matters/ Avery might be overly 'precious' when it comes to synthpop, synthwave and darkwave...but Avery does make some important points and talks about synthpop's relationship to new wave, industrial, EBM and mainstream 80s pop.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.238.174 (talk) 18:31, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Association with New Wave 

message: If "Kraftwerk" were the first to play a Synth Pop, Germany should to be the ONLY pionner of this music genre. Yellow Magic Orchestra only copied the European idea.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by WesternUniverse (talk • contribs) 22:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japan? 

message: please change ((Dutch)) to ((Netherlands|Dutch)) 98.239.227.65 (talk) 13:52, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Done RandomCanadian (talk / contribs)  14:37, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Dutch

message: On wiki there are articles for British jazz, British hip hop, British soul, British rock music, British rock and roll, Britpop, British rhythm and blues, British pop music and British popular music...now if there are so many differences between what the terms new wave and synthpop mean to people in the UK and USA, shouldn't there be articles about these popular genres viewed only from a British perspective, maybe called British punk and new wave and British synthpop (with obviously no hyphens used).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.173.247 (talk) 15:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: British New Wave and Synthpop

message: Change: "In 1971 the British movie A Clockwork Orange was released with a synth soundtrack by American Wendy Carlos. It was the first time many in the United Kingdom had heard electronic music."
To:
"Excepting the theme of the popular show Doctor Who, with an electronic theme song executed by Delia Derbyshire in 1963, and heard by millions of Britons every Saturday evening, the 1971 British movie A Clockwork Orange, with a synth soundtrack by American Wendy Carlos was the first time many in the United Kingdom had heard electronic music score." 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delia_Derbyshire 65.51.193.109 (talk) 17:27, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. I'm afraid we can't use Wikipedia as a source for itself (see WP:CIRCULAR), and I my quick review doesn't point to a source in that article that supports the text you're requesting. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 18:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2021 

message: Is “Synth-pop” really the correct label for this genre?  First of all, “pop” is not a genre; pop is short for popular: in the 20s pop was Dixieland jazz, in the 30s it was swing, in the 50s it was rock and roll, doo-wop, and R&B - long story sort: not a genre. So stop using the term pop to describe a “style” of music.  When this stuff  came out in the 70s and 80s everyone called it Techno.  As far as I’m concerned it’s still Techno, and that’s what we should be calling it now - Techno 47.185.231.204 (talk) 03:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not a forum. (CC) Tbhotch™ 17:04, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synth pop?? 

message: 90.230.43.85 (talk) 16:53, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Cannolis (talk) 17:06, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2022 

message: I recently learned that Synth-pop is a subgenre of New wave, so I put it under the genre in the templates for Rock music and Post-disco.  Could someone put those templates on this page? 47.36.25.163 (talk) 23:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 23 June 2022 

message: I find this to be incorrect in that it has no basis.
The lyrics are not about an androgynous person,so why are the vocals androgynous? If it is because the voice of the _woman is not high pitched or considered deep for a _woman, this is an unintelligible insignificant opinion/observation that I don’t believe is relevant to the description. just say she has a deep voice, it has nothing to do with androgyny. Deedssky (talk) 19:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is it that the vocals are deemed “ androgynous”?