Talk:Duchy of Vasconia/Archive 1

message: Wllacer: you say that the Bishop of Elusa was accused of pro-Basque activities in 626, yet Auñamendi says clearly that he was accused in 634: En 634 es acusado el obispo de Elusa de haber tomado parte en la sublevación vascona. Which one is the correct date? --Sugaar 12:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I know the divergence; but  that's the date I could locate in the primary sources. The original quote in Fredegarius (via  puts it at year 43 of Clotaire II (i.e. 626-627). Ian Wood's book about the Merovingians uses also 626 for the year. Fredegarius skips any annotation for 634. But there are also other curious things in it. Elusa/Eauze is in the middle of the Armagnac region, which specialists like Gorrochategi do not suppose ever "Vasconized" at all. And the names of the two involved individuals Palladius (the father) and Sidocus (the Bishop), don't sound like it either. More funny Gascon bishop notices: Acording to Dom Monzelun, a Bishop Licerius from Auch, took part in the Sixth Council of Toledo (638) Wllacer 15:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Auch or Aux was the capital of the Duchy of Vasconia. Wether or not Basque was still spoken then is less relevant. Basque is not massively spoken in Bilbao or Gasteiz either nowadays, yet these are considered Basque cities. Many people are Basque speakers and bear Romance names (and the opposite is also true). --Sugaar 17:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By 638 and at least c. 673, Elusa was still metropolitan see of the Novempopulania/Wasconia. But the see (and almost the city) didn't survived the arab atacks after 721. The metropolitan see moved afterwards to Auch. Pre 800, no source gives a political capital to WasconiaWllacer 00:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are maybe right about the lack of knowledge of a political capital (after all it was the High Middle Ages!). Still, again you are discussing the map out of place. Discuss the map in its talk page and the article here, please. --Sugaar 12:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bishop. What year?

message: Smec: if you're going to challenge the main (and so far only) source, you should at least have another. 
According to Auñamendi Encyclopedia, William was captured by the Norsemen in 848 (not 846) but not killed. He ruled until 852, when Sans finally seems to have defeated the Franks. 
I think we can complement our diferent sources to improve this and the list of the Dukes but I want to see your sources and if they are similar quality wise, state both opinions, not one. --Sugaar 13:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My source was Monlezun's Histoire de la Gascogne, which is available online at Google Books . The reference is found on page 342, where it is stated that William I died responding to the Vikings in the year 848 (846 was a typo on my behalf, sorry). If you'll look at the article Sancho Sánchez of Gascony, you'll see the other sources I used for putting together the history of the years 846-853. I will add the sources I used in doing the Gascon dukes to this article. I would like you to know I am more than happy to cooperate in elucidating this difficult period of the history of this obscure region. Srnec 05:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death of William