Talk:Japanese occupation of the Dutch East Indies

message: Should this article be renamed to Japanese occupation of the Dutch East Indies since Indonesia did not exist before 1945? Arsonal (talk) 16:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your continued excellent work on Indonesia articles. On this particular question, I don't think it is a good idea. This is an article on the history of a current entity and this title reflects this - perhaps if the date was 1943 then I'd agree. It is a far more common title, and is what is used by the most-respected historians and books. Eg, we have an article entitled The spread of Islam in Indonesia. Should we change that to something else as there was no Indonesia in the 12th to 16th century? (rhetoric question) --Merbabu (talk) 09:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think yes. I agree with Arsonal. Andries (talk) 10:31, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

text: I think that even if the name is not changed the Dutch East Indies must be mentioned in the first or second sentence. Andries (talk) 12:50, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I note you didn't respond to my post. At least, you should put your name change question onto the Indonesian noticeboard. cheers --Merbabu (talk) 12:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ehhh, where is your post? I have no intention to change the name without further discussion. Andries (talk) 13:02, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'd like to support a change of name. During the whole period of the occupation, the topic of the article, there was no Indonesia. The occupation itself has a role in becoming Indonesia but this article reflects completely the Dutch East Indies. Agora (talk) 08:40, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming 

message: Do not dare claim some minimally educated white with a very blatant program of altering Indonesian history to suit their own PC agenda and Australian-US-UK scholars who are barely literate in Indoneisan are some how suprerior and more authorative than Indonesian mainstream scholarship. I am sorry if  you feel Indonesian history is too racist or controversial for YOU- BUT HERE'S A NASTY FACT- INDONESIAN HISTORY IS RACIST. 
Here are some unpleasant facts for you sok tahu bule mincing about with your infatuation with PC and multi-culturalism: 
*The natives were oppressed by the Dutch via the Chinese in an apartheid that made South Africa look like kindergarten.
*Chinese had NO involvement with Perjuangan except to hamper, sabotage and destroy Indonesian pribumi attempts at Independence.
*There are NO Chinese national heroes until Megawti appointed ONE chinese poet.
*There are no Chinese military heroes- 
*Sukarno made no Chinese a national hero
* Sukarno only made 3 Chinese MP's when he was just about to be thrown out of power by the Muslims
* the hatred and distrust of Chinese runs so deep- that in the 2009 SBY election when the Chinese Business council endorsed SBY- Partai Demokrat polling illustrated a major defection to Megawati-Prabowo.
* Kwik Kian Gie- traitor of PDIP- has no native following at all and was highly controversial during Megawati's cabinet- he was universally hated just as the corrupt Marie Elka Pagestu.
*There are no Chinese befouling the holy ground of Kalibata Heroes cemetery. When you pay respects to my father, my uncles, grandfather and the rest of the Joyosarono-Joyokusuma Hadiningrat royal clan (all Bintang Gurilya) in Kalibata Heroes cemetery - you can speak to the gravekeeper- he will cheerily inform you NO CHINESE. 
* If you actually speak to those who lived during Perjuangan- you will soon find the Chinese were up to their usual tricks of rice-hoarding, smuggling, spying (for pay of course) and running under the skirts of nanny UK or Dutchman.
* PETA and Heiho had NO CHINESE membership at all. It was 100% pribumi as decreed and designed by the Japanese. 
*Japanese program of forced rekalamasi by the Heiho was to specifically reclaim shops and businesses from the hated Dutch and CHiense Some Chinese were sent as Romusha as just desserts for their oppression of the pribumi,.
To claim Chinese had any positive involvement in Perjuangan constitutes original research and it utterly refuted by all Indonesian scholarship- which as being the narrative of its' own native history is unqueastionably the authorative version- exctly as Australin history scholarhsip is the authorative narrative of Austrlian history, British scholarship to British history and so forth.
*British occupation of Surabaya was headquartered at the entrance to the Chinatown- why? no chance of attack from the Red Bridge- Chinese were known to be 100% loyal to the re-occupation of Indies.
*Jakarta suburb with the highest population of Dutch- Menteng, had the highest number non Dutch resident- Chinese. Chinese- keen to be among their beloved master.
*When a Dutch Resident was to depart finally from Indonesia- and their goods auctioned off- Chinese would Chinese would auction more than double the amrket price on their goods to curry favor with the incoming Resident.
* Chinese fought against Dipo Negoro and burnt down the library of Keraton Jogja
* Chinese were noted by Wallace to stand and remove hats as a mark of respect of any passing white.
* Chinese were so hated- a bounty was placed on Chinese, so effective the Dutch established a counter penalty for the collective punishment of the closest village to the murdered Chinaman, if they refused to surrender the murderers.
*Chinese immigration peaked during mid 19yth century specifically targeted by Dutch-British program of importation of Chinese (as in Myanmar and Malaysia) to be the obsequious grovelling middleman, compradore and lickspittle exactly as we still find today in Singapore. Chinese were specifically targeted by the Dutch and British as they were obsequious, submissive, servile and cared nothing for politics or native self-determination (bad for business lah), but everything about accumulating wealth and social aspiration. 
*The dutch imported them to run their Indies plantations, taxation, tax-collection, toll-roads, pawn-shops, gambling dens, opium dens, brothels and all manner of immoral, thanjkless, nasty dirty jobs exactly as the Chinese are involved with today in Indonesia- or have you never heard of Dolly, HaiLai or Mangga Dua?
* Chinese remain the single most hated ethnic/religious group in Indonesia. Why? For their colonial collaboration.
Unless you are prepared to write Indonesian history in agreement with the dominant Indonesian academic perspective - which excludes all Gramedia/Gunung Agung/Tokoh Indonesia belated "revelations" about heroic, selfless Chinese (which should be immediately dismissed as typical Chinese self-aggrandisement and ingratiation to the dominant power) to suit your 
perceptions Indonesian self determination was a multi-cultural love-fest then you thoroughly need re-adjustment and a dose of reality. I am more than happy to lend a valet with English skills to tour you around all the national museums, the national archives etc to prove my point.
You will respect MY edits on my own nations history as more authoritative, more educated and more accurate  <personal attacks removed Gnangarra 03:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Starstylers, on wikipedia talk pages are to discuss content not users we assume good faith and we dont Own articles please keep this in mind with further discussion. Gnangarra 03:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

text: This comment is very anti-chinese. It shows a picture which actually is still the problem of some so called "real indonesians" (with some strange extremist ideas, sometimes unfortunately in the name of Islam). I (german) am married to a chinese-indonesian woman from Bandung and I know a lot of chinese indonesian, but also "real indonesian" peoples. I have friends on both sides, and they are very kind to each other and to me, we make no difference on this.  84.167.213.60 (talk) 20:46, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: My edits

message: This article is very unclear for the reasons why the japanese occupied the archipelago. The article only says that the japanese wanted to be the "good ones" to free the colony, Asia to the asians and things like that. But that is maybe only the half of the truth, if so. The main interest of the japanese was the economics. For their industrial growth they needed more natural resources of which the indonesian archipelago has plenty, like gold, oil and coal in Sumatra and Borneo, all these fine and rich plantations, farms and factories (so called "Onderneming") which have been installed by the Dutch, like sugar (in fact, Java was the biggest sugar producer of the world in the 1920/30's, there were almost about 300 sugar mills, I am a member of a group around Rob Dickinson who is doing researches on this), palm oil, teak wood, rubber, tea, coffee, sisal, algarve, aloe vera, cashew, coco nuts, spices, tobacco, opium, salt, fish, shrimps and many more. The japanese occupators restructured the complete economics of the archipelago, for example they reorganized the sugar mills under control of japanese companies, they merged all the railway companies, they even built a few new railway lines, for example the so called "bones railway", or "trans sumatra spoorweg" (this is not a modern invention) to extend the west-Sumatra-railsystem (Padang) to Pekanbaru to have easyier acces for coal transportation from the sawahlunto coal mines to the chinese sea for quicker and more safe transport of the coal to the mainland Japan. 84.167.213.60 (talk) 20:46, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: reason for occupation of Dutch Indies Colony by the japanese

message: I find it rather surprising that despite the lenght of the article there is not one mention of the 3 to 4 million indonisians that died because of famine and the labour camps during the ocupation.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.126.13.229 (talk) 22:49, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It is mentioned, in the 4 paragraph of "The Occupation" section. cheers --Merbabu (talk) 02:00, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Indonesian deaths

message: In one case men and women were herded to a beach and machine-gunned.  I will be adding some references for this.HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  no mention of the punishment/executions of Dutch nationals after oil fields destroyed 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140518224034/http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_009.pdf to http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_009.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140518224034/http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_009.pdf to http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_009.pdf
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140518224034/http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_009.pdf to http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_009.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article is about the country/area or about the occupation and why use ? The similarly-named Indonesian occupation of East Timor doesn't use . Hddty. (talk) 06:22, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: This additions on the research of theorists based on an objective perspective. It's not strange content that will be deleted, and since the source has a URL, it can be verified by translating it.--みしまるもも (talk) 02:37, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: Hi Brigade Piron, it is my understanding that as the war goes on, and the Japanese loses more, they tried to gain sympathy and starts to do more appeasement in Indonesia starting in 1944 and especially 1945, this include allowing to sing the National Anthem "Indonesia Raya" and flying the Indonesian Flag "Sang Saka Merah-Putih" (albeit next to the Japanese "Hinomaru"). Admittedly in 1944 the National Anthem uses the "Mulia, Mulia" lyrics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9zINGfqlew&t=135s instead of the "Merdeka, Merdeka" lyrics but by 1945 it changes back to the original "Merdeka, Merdeka" lyrics.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOOKabYShsU&t=109s I know these are wartime Japanese propaganda footages but i think the Indonesian Flag should be added still, maybe with a sidenote to explain it. There is also the "Janji Koiso" https://www.kompas.com/stori/read/2021/08/20/114959879/alasan-jepang-mengizinkan-pengibaran-bendera-merah-putih?page=all. And in here it says https://historia.id/politik/articles/ada-apa-dengan-bendera-6jq1P/
*It was only when they were on the brink of defeat in the Pacific War that Japan promised independence for Indonesia and allowed the red-and-white flag and the anthem Indonesia Raya. Coinciding with Greater East Asia Development Day, September 8-9, 1944, Soomubucho (Head of the General Affairs Department of the Japanese Military Government in Indonesia) announced: "... on this day the army has allowed to wear the Indonesian national flag, and the national anthem Indonesia Raya is also permitted as the Indonesian song. The announcement was published by Sinar Baroe, 9 September 1944.
*Celebrations were held everywhere, "including the red-and-white flag-raising ceremony on September 9, 1944 in Gambir which was attended by 40,000 people to celebrate the independence of Indonesia, and a sense of relief because the achievement of ideals was in sight," wrote Elson.
Pardon me for the rushed translation. I would like to hear your thoughts on this?
*Edit: Forgot to sign EvoSwatch (talk) 08:57, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag of Indonesia 

message: It is said that there were three separated adminsitrative regions in the occupied Dutch East Indies, shouldn't be there an article too? Mhatopzz (talk) 07:27, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three separated administrative regions 

message: Would it be possible for someone who understands the language to check whether or not the 9 March edit by જય શ્રી રામ is a good change? I'm hesitant to revert it myself, but that user is a sock of someone who seems to have pushed POV in other places. Placeholderer (talk) 16:15, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Verifying Sock Edit