Talk:Skeuomorph

message: How is Skeuomorph pronounced? —Michael Z. 2006-11-28 06:31 Z
Why is it spelled 2 different ways in the article? Bhny 01:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I edited the page to use one spelling.K8 fan 21:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Many software "plug-ins", especially with music and audio programs, employ skeumorphic interfaces to emulate expensive, fragile or obsolete instruments and audio processors. Functional inputs controls like knobs, buttons, switches and sliders are all careful duplicates of the ones on the original physical device being emulated. Even elements of the original that serve no function, like handles, screws and ventilation holes are carefully reproduced. 
The argument in favor of skeumorphic design is that it makes it easier for those familiar with the original device to use the digital emulation, and that it looks "cool". 
The various arguments against skeumorphic design are: that skeumorphic interface elements always take up more screen space than standard interface elements; that this breaks operating system interface design standards; that skeumorphic interface elements rarely incorporate numeric input or feedback for accurately setting a value; and that many users may have no experience with the original device being emulated.K8 fan 18:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional examples 

message: I wasn't convinced by the idea that the Zune's button design is a skeuomorph of an iPod, since more broadly speaking they are objects originating in the same period and using more or less the same technology... a better example might be CD players that are disguised as LP turntables.  I like the overall article but that example was not convincing and didn't seem to fit the idea that a skeuomorph is supposed to be evoking an earlier technology/object/form, not simply emulating something else.  Would recommend substituting a different example.  It isn't a major point, I know, but undermines the given definition. Zozer319 22:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The iPod's design pre-dates the design of the Zune by several years. But I agree that it is not an example that will stand the test of time. K8 fan 14:07, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emulation v Skeuomorph 

message: These segments look quite dubious to me and have been flagged for citation since November 2008.  I don't see how hidden stone joints are taken to be aesthetic remainders of previous function.  Aren't they still functional?  I'm also going to go ahead and make an anecdotal observation that circular arrangements of buttons or keys is not new to the Zune or the iPod.  I have a number of remotes like that.  In essence, the argument could be made that the Zune is hinting at the touch-wheel, but let it be made by a notable source first.
: The mortice and tenon joints present in the trilithons of Stonehenge may be examples of skeuomorphs, derived from earlier timber structures.
: An example from the field of consumer electronics is the presence of a circle on the face of the Zune - this is not needed, as the buttons exist in a four-way configuration, but is shaped to bring to mind the touch-wheel interface of the iPod.
- User:BalthCat (logged out) - 142.167.86.170 (talk) 09:20, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it's not obvious if you haven't seen the Zune in person, but the touchpad is a round-cornered square, and the skeuomorphic connection to an iPod's touch-wheel is pretty tenuous. You'd be on stronger ground suggesting that the current iPod Classic and Nano touchwheels were a skeuomorphic reference to the original iPod's physical wheel, but it's still pretty weak, and would be much worse than the quite good examples currently in the article. 
--rcousine (talk) 23:50, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source these... 

message: This article might be improved by mentioning that design movements such as the Bauhaus rejected the skeumorph, or that Howard Roark, the main character in Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead struggles against, disdains, and ultimately triumphs over those who insist on tacking skeumorphs on their designs.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.21.74.93 (talk) 23:04, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples from literary and design sources 

message: Wire-pattern hubcaps are a clear example of a skeuomorph, and wire wheels date back to the carriage era (Wiki "Wire Wheels" article says bicycles used them first, I'm not sure...), but wire hubcaps are referring to the entirely functional wire car wheels that were used up to the 1960s.
I can't list a perfect cite, but here's a history of the car wheel. I believe wire wheels were entirely functional high-performance items (lighter than the cheaper stamped-steel wheels) until the lighter weight (and to some extent, better aerodynamics and brake cooling) of cast or forged magnesium or aluminum wheels took over.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rcousine (talk • contribs) 23:41, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  We have this image on the page now. I wonder if a better example might be the more contemporary shiny plastic wheel cover that resembles an alloy wheel (complete with fake nuts and bolts) but is actually just a decorative cover for a plain black steel wheel. --Cornellier (talk) 22:08, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carriage wheels? 

message: Removed the example "Non-functional air intake grille on the (electric) Chevy Volt".   The Chevy Volt has in every design known included a liquid cooled internal combustion engine that requires a radiator for cooling making the front grille functional.  Also air conditioning systems have a condenser that will also make the front grill functional.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drkarrow (talk • contribs) 22:21, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The example image should be changed to one of the brands that features a non-functional loop handle with glass where the hole should be. As far as functionality, the traditional maple syrup container (at least in the United States) was a one gallon jug. The handles on those were a necessity to be able to pour syrup from the heavy jug. Over time, container size for maple syrup shrunk and the handle was no longer a vital tool. That seem (at least to me) a definitive example of a skeuomorph. K8 fan (talk) 21:06, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: More of the above explanation should be included in the Maple Syrup line. As it is, the article doesn't explain why the handle is a skeuomorph.
Mr. Shoeless (talk) 04:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Agree about the safe. Came here to say that. --Cornellier (talk) 21:05, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples 

message: No mention of facade columns.  Aren't they a prime example?
- I believe not. – Ekin(talk-@) 10:48, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think many building facades are festooned with skeuomorphs. From the mutules, guttae, and modillions mentioned in the article to fake shutters, to columns which are non-structural e.g. --Cornellier (talk) 22:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Would another example be the horizontal and vertical plastic strips that visually divide home windows into ~8x10 inch panes?  Years ago, glass panes larger than 8x10" were presumably expensive and subject to defects that would make them hard to see clearly through.  By breaking a large window into these smaller panes, and connecting them with a real lattice, it was possible to build large windows at lower cost.  But now panes the full size of the window can be made inexpensively and with high quality, so the lattice is unnecessary.  Hence the non-functional plastic lattices just resemble the old lattices. Mcswell (talk) 03:56, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Facade columns 

message: "digital cameras play a recorded audio clip of a conventional SLR camera mirror slap and shutter opening and closing. Such ornamentation is not necessarily non-functional: the watch pocket is now used for coins, and the camera shutter sound is used to indicate to subject and photographer when the taking of the picture is complete....    Now i have read several sources, although i cannot find them at the moment. that states that one of the main reasons for having the audio sound to be played is so people cannot easily invade others privacy's by taking pictures they are unaware of . ie your "voyeurs"  perverts that take "upskirt" pictures.. and what not. in fact i believe i read that it is infact law in places like japan for just that reason.  I will leave it to others  to find the RS  and/or to include it  if they see fit.  i just thought it should be at least mentioned here.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by HighallTimes (talk • contribs) 16:02, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Digital camera 

message: Would "speed holes" on recent cars qualify? 173.81.171.205 (talk) 03:51, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speed holes? 

message: Perhaps one of the largest engineering skeuomorphs are the twin 89 metre pylons at each end of the Sydney Harbour Bridge. They do not support anything, and are there only to frame the structure itself and make it look more like a traditional bridge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Harbour_Bridge#Pylons I'll include it in examples Myles325a (talk) 05:23, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sydney Harbour Bridge pylons 

message: One of the example photos has the caption "Small maple syrup jug with non-functional loop handle." I have those bottles of maple syrup sometimes, and very often use the "non-functional" loop handle to pick the up because the top parts of the bottles tend to get sticky.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.69.154.33 (talk) 11:54, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you must have the daintiest little pinkies in the world! Myles325a (talk) 06:33, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Regardless of your opinions of the bodies of Wikipedia contributors, the larger point is that the maple syrup bottle example is completely uncited, and thus calling it skeuomorphic is original research.  Nandesuka (talk) 20:29, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the maple syrup bottle example a good one? 

message: I remember hearing in a documentary that early bronze hand axes imitated the shape of the stone ones that they replaced. This would show that the concept is an ancient one. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could add this as an example, with appropriate citations? Old Aylesburian (talk) 11:26, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hand axe 

message: Steampunk was added Feb 10, 2012, and undone Feb 15, 2012. Steampunk seems a very good example of Skeumorphs carried to the extreme. I therefore wish your thoughts for its re-inclusion. CasualVisitor (talk) 16:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steampunk 

message: Our "Other Examples" section is starting to turn this article into List of Skeuomorphs rather than just a few examples to illustrate the principle.  We really don't need to (and could not possibly) list every example of this phenomenon.  About five or six choice examples should suffice.  The list needs to be agressively pruned (per WP:LISTCRUFT) - it would be good to require reliable sources for some of these claims too.  Who says that the hood scoop on an '07 MINI Cooper'S is a skeuomorph rather than an important part of the functioning vehicle? (I happen to know this - but in a Wikipedia article, we need a reference for that fact). SteveBaker (talk) 15:57, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Highly relevant and clear examples are best in a list of this type. If someone did want to make an entire list of Reliably Sourced skeuomorphs (or if someone wants to suggest switching any of the examples now used), then this diff of the items that were removed, should be helpful. Thanks Steve :) -- Quiddity (talk) 23:52, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I just reverted the addition of "Gorget" (sorry to whoever added it!) - whilst it's an excellent example of a skeuomorph, it's archaic and doesn't add anything to the descriptive meaning of skeuomorph.  Once again, this isn't List of Skeuomorphs...this is a description of this term and that's all we need here.  If someone wants to make List of Skeuomorphs, I'd be generally supportive - although I do believe that such a list could easily degenerate into WP:LISTCRUFT - which would be "A Bad Thing(tm)". SteveBaker (talk) 15:14, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  "In general, a "list of X" should only be created if X itself is a legitimate encyclopedic topic that already has its own article. The list should originate as a section within that article, and should not be broken out into a separate article until it becomes so long as to be disproportionate to the rest of the article."...I guess that would justify a List of Skeuomorphs article if anyone desired to create it. SteveBaker (talk) 15:24, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overly long list 

message: Although I don't think images should ever be used superfluously or to decorate, I do think this article deserves to be more illustrated than the average article, since its subject matter is intrinsically visual, and in the traditional pre-computing sense of the term, the subject matter is intrinsically physical. So illustrations really do have a role to play in documenting the subject. Perhaps a gallery could be added with more carefully-selected examples. It wouldn't be too hard to find some nice illustrations of some of the objects already mentioned in the article, e.g. mutules, guttae, and modillions, flame-shaped lightbulbs, artificial leather grain on a book or car dashboard, and so on. A lot of good images probably already in the Commons. --Cornellier (talk) 22:03, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add more images and a gallery? 

message: From personal experience, skeuomorphs seem to have a calming effect much like color psychology.  I would like to see someone tackle this topic. Viriditas (talk) 11:18, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Psychological component missing 

message: As shown by the discussion above, there is a lack of clarity around the definition of the skeuomorph, making it difficult to decide which objects are skeuomorphic. Until recently skeuomorphs existed only as physical objects, for example artificial leather grain on items that traditionally used leather but now use plastics, such as car dashboards and books. The traditional definition is "an ornament or design on an object copied from a form of the object when made from another material or by other techniques, as an imitation metal rivet mark found on handles of prehistoric pottery" (dictionary.com). However in today's usage (as evidenced in many blogs etc.) the meaning is more general: "an object or feature which imitates the design of a similar artefact in another material" (Oxforddictionaries.com). By this definition, any UI object on a screen that references a physical object is by definition skeuomorphic since it is made of a different material.
I am raising the subject here on the talk page to:
* get a consensus on what this article is about, which will in turn inform decisions about what are and are not valid examples
* develop a more elaborate definition of skeuomorph for the article itself, which puts the idea in the context of metaphor and symbolism.
--Cornellier (talk) 19:51, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of skeuomorph 

message: The picture of a car with fake wood siding is a perfect illustration of why examples should only be added to the article which have citations. Whether this is a skeuomorph or just a kitsch decoration is debatable in light of the length of time that has passed since our culture transitioned from wooden carriages to automobiles. It may well be a skeuomorph but Wikipedia editors should not be deciding what is and what is not a skeuomorph. That's called original research. This talk page and the history of this article is full of discussion of what qualifies as a skeuomorph. As User:K8_fan wrote above "I've been monitoring this article for quite some time ... it's such a cool term that loads of new users visit here and add one - and the list gets longer and eventually gets pruned. Rinse, repeat. I'd suggest a compromise - nobody gets to add a new example without providing pictures of the skeuomorph and the original." To stop unreferenced content creep, I propose that only referenced examples and images be permitted in this article and that existing unreferenced images and examples be removed. --Cornellier (talk) 22:17, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah the reason I reverted is because despite the line in the section WP:WHYCITE, citations in captions are fairly rare and I find them to be excessive in most cases. I was particularly peeved because almost the exact same example, fake wood grain, was already present in the article. I wasn't aware of the discussion on the talk page though, and will look up a source or find an alternative example that is citable. Thanks for the message, Steven Walling • talk  22:58, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi Steven, thanks for the quick reply. Yeah I guess it was kind of experimental to put a "dubious" note in an image caption, I wanted to encourage you to head over to this talk page. And ironically (or not) it was yours truly who snapped the photo of the plastic planks while at the DIY shop the other day. However since then I have been reformed and it's strictly cited examples only from now on! --Cornellier (talk) 23:51, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Examples and images: with citations only please

message: Is the example of the software calendar in the first paragraph actually an example of skeuomorphic design or of simple emulation?  It's a calendar, what else would it look like besides... a calendar?  Some of the other examples on the talk page (but no longer in the article) such as the floppy disk icon were clearly not skeuomorphic in design, either being merely a symbol or actually still being functional part of the design rather than simple carryovers.  How is the software calendar that looks like a calendar skeuomorphic instead of simply functional?dunerat (talk) 04:47, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think part of the reasoning is that the month display is constrained by month units, as if the days were physically on a page, instead the days being a continuous flow, which would be more natural. That's how its done over on calendar.google.com for example. --Cornellier (talk) 13:50, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Software calendar example 

message: Why does the page not contain the Mielstrup-Winther-model? I would like to add it but I'm afraid I do not understand it on a high enough level to describe it in depth.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jepp2415 (talk • contribs) 07:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Mielstrup-Winther model 

message: I have edited the article so that the primary definition of skeuomorphism given is the narrow one (an element that imitates something that was once functional in an older design), and I have relegated the broader definition of skeuomorphism (anything that looks like anything else) to being mentioned as an alternative definition later in the article. This is a reversal of the way the article has been for about a year, but I believe it was the correct choice for the following reasons:
* The narrow definition is the original definition of the term, and as far as I am aware it is the exclusive definition used by designers.
* Most of the content of the article is written for the narrower definition and doesn't make sense when applied to the broad definition.
* I don't believe the broader definition even existed until tech bloggers diluted it from the narrow defintion within the last few years.
* This article was written using the narrow definition and retained that definition up until mid 2012. Wiktionary still uses that definition as well.
* The broad definition is not useful as design term, as it has the exact same meaning as the word "imitates". Using the broad definition then leaves no term to describe the specific cases that fall under the original, narrower definition of skeuomorphism.
I saw that somebody had started a discussion about this several months ago and it go no replies. I have decided to be bold and make the edit, and hopefully anybody who disagrees with it will be willing to discuss it here. Chris3145 (talk) 01:23, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reasons for and discussion about reverting primary definition to the narrower one 

message: "Apple officially shifted from skeuomorphism to a more simplified design, thus beginning the so-called "death of skeuomorphism"
What? Windows Phone had a clear design influence over the subsequent versions of Android and iOS, and even if you disagree about WP influence then there's Android 3.x which is way older than iOS 7 anyway, but Apple is credited for beginning the "death of skeuomorphism"?
I'm no fanboy of Microsoft or Google, but if Wikipedia wants to present facts it's failing. I quit Wikipedia for today. --Rafaelluik (talk) 20:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where's Windows? 

message: Skeuomorphism - As analyzed by Marshall McLuhan - (in Laws Of Media, et-al...)
Canadian philosopher and author Marshall McLuhan contributed much insightful analysis of this topic, in his profound studies of Media and Mind.  His last book, published posthumously by his son, was Laws Of Media - in which he postulates a cardinal set of "existential" dimensions to the synergies and evolutions of media and mind -- including a form of Skueomorphism, as one [half of-] of the vectors of media forms in transition.  
70.67.10.185 (talk) 20:29, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Skeuomorphism - As analyzed by Marshall McLuhan - (in Laws Of Media, et-al...) 

message: According to my dictionary of ancient Greek, skeue or skeuos can also mean "jewelry" or "disguise," and I believe that this meaning is more plausible in explaining the origin of the term than "tool" or "container."  
Jan van Werth (talk) 17:56, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of skeuos 

message: User:Kashifv wrote a section in this article about "memetic skeumorphs," but none of the references in this article appear to use this phrase. Is there such a thing as a "memetic skeuomorph?" Jarble (talk) 08:43, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Memetic skeuomorphs" 

message: Could we elaborate on why and how an electric tea kettle is "downright dangerous" if used in the "original way"? What, specifically, is the "original way?" Putting it on the stove? Pouring from the spout? Actually while I'm at it I'm going to just remove the word downright from that sentence. It doesn't seem like good tone.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:FF0B:1B00:B8A7:723A:4709:D290 (talk) 06:28, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chronistic Skeuomorphs =

message: What proof is there that DEV-A14B15_polished_flint_axe_copying_an_EBA_copper_axe_(FindID_188146).jpg is an "ancient flint copying shape of an expensive copper axe". Is this WP:OR ? --Cornellier (talk) 21:08, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flint copying shape of copper axe needs ref 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:23, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: :
That has a different derivation, from σκια skia ‘shadow’. —Tamfang (talk) 20:43, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  skia