Talk:Peter Petrelli/Archive 2

message: I apologize.  I have no idea why, but for some reason I thought that this user had blanked sections of the talk page rather than adding to them.  That's what I get for editing at 4 in the morning...
On an unrelated note, please remember that Wikipedia is not a forum for discussion, guys.  Please don't discuss your Heroes (tv show) speculation here. CaveatLectorTalk 14:56, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we've all been there, editing late.  I think that's partly what assume good faith is for.  I welcomed User:FMN92, and mentioned the point about keeping the talk discussion on task.  It's probably about time the page got archived onto a sub-page, but the relative dates under each header are all over the place.  Any thoughts about where the cutoff might be? --GargoyleMT 20:16, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say let's not fry our brains on it or try to find a cutoff, but simply archive the entire page (split into two archives if necessary) and star the next batch of talk afresh. Those who want to continue ongoing discussions can do so on the new page.  CaveatLectorTalk 05:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sounds good to me.  Done. --GargoyleMT 13:05, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talk page 

message: "In the premiere episode, Peter Petrelli is a nurse living in New York City. He is sensitive and compassionate, wears his heart on his sleeve and is described as a "dreamer". Peter is also defined by his complex relationship with his older brother, Nathan, to whom he feels very close, even claiming he has a sort of metaphysical connection that allowed him to know immediately when Nathan suffered a serious accident in the past. Differences between Peter and Nathan, an ambitious politician who is so focused on his congressional campaign that he shows no compassion when their mother is arrested for shoplifting, have caused tensions between the brothers." NO WAY can that much detail be needed.
:I've made a start at cleaning up those first few paragraphs. It will still take a few more passes, though. --Ckatzchatspy 09:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The entire article could use a few passes, I've updated four months later. An anon has since done another pass and improved it further. I'm happy with how that looks now, and pretty happy with alternative future area. But the rest reads like its trying to tell a story. We're in the second season now, and we can't devote an entire paragraph to Peter's story in every ep, an entire season should be able to fit within a couple of paragraphs. Rekija 03:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WAY too elaborate 

message: I'm torn: Peter does indeed lose control of Ted's power and that is what causes him to explode (always assuming that was Peter that we saw explode.  I have my doubts).  But he doesn't lose control from too many powers, just that he has a hard time controlling the new power at first, as he does with most powers he gets the first time.
Was it the overload of too many powers that Claude was referring to, or was it simply the inability to control even one power (when it's new).  If Claude meant the former that is incorrect, Peter is clearly within range and using several powers, if not at the same time at least very quickly one after another.  If it's the later than that is correct, Peter exploded because he had trouble controlling Ted's power initially the same as he has with others powers initially.  Padillah 15:45, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What does you mean that you have your doubts that Peter exploded...? Anyways, my interpretation was that he was referring to using too many powers at once. The overload effects were very different than what happened in the finale. Ophois 00:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that what happened in the finale is different than when he overloaded.  Padillah 01:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: However, I believe Mohinder said that he could lose control if he absorbed an unstable power. Ophois 01:22, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

text:  I believe everyone was theorizing about him going boom, before they knew he came in contact with 'Nuclear' Teddy. Suresh said he could explode from absorbing too many powers before he knew about Ted, he only drew his conclusion that Peter would indeed go boom, from the fact that somone had told him about Isaac's painting of the bomb, so if a person was going to go boom, he assumed it was going to be Peter, had he known it was going to be due to Ted's power alone, he would have probably said this. Peter himself didnt know what would be the thing that caused him to go nuclear, until Claire mentioned Ted. After that point, everyone in the series knew that Ted Sprague was gonna be the trigger to create the bomb, and he was.Baaleos 20:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Side effects 

message: Um, people, there is evidence (I am not saying definite) that Peter is the single primary protagonist of the series, because, well, Peter's storyline and his eventual final fight with Sylar is the one that ties other characters' storylines in the series (or at least, the first season). Should we put Peter as the primary hero? It's up to you. Leader Vladimir
:We can't make that call - it has to be supported by valid third-party references. If the producers label the character as such, or if a reviewer makes such a comparison, then we would have something to work with. --Ckatzchatspy 22:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protagonist 

message: I think we should create a sub section listing the powers Peter has in the episode Five Years Gone.
And more importantly, in the final episode of season 1, peter is in close contact with Sylar. So it is fair to say he has gained all the abilities Sylar has including the ones gained after they last met. I.e sensitive hearing. Should these abilities be listed down as well? Blacktoxic 15:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't really know how the contact with Sylar worked - both of them are special cases. With no hard evidence, we should keep from adding Sylar's powers until they're actually used. Note also that the first episode of the second season implies that Peter lacks eidetic memory, but again, no hard evidence. --Kizor 18:53, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full list of Peter's Powers 

message: Since the only character at the time that had it was Claire's biological mother, can't that mean that Peter came in contact with her before Five Years Gone???  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.157.179.197 (talk) 01:56, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Powers aren't unique, so it could have easily come from someone else. Ophois 02:00, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. In season 2 episode 1 there's a young chap who can fly as well. Powers are likely not exclusive. Blacktoxic 13:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's an interview with one of the producers that states they are not exclusive.  I wish I remembered where I saw that.  It was a citation I just don't remember which.  Padillah 14:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I just saw closely on the dvd, definitely not radiation. And in that alt future, he may not have even met Ted.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.141.94 (talk) 17:28, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't really change the fact that the 3 sec. use of an unidentified power is not really notable.  AND it has been established that that particular future has been avoided so it doesn't even impact the series.  Inasmuch as I'd love to debate the origin of an aquired power used for ~3sec on a single episode foreshadowing a future that will not come to pass... it is not notable.  In light of the fact that it has been established that the future portrayed in Five Years Gone I think the powers lists and so forth really need to be given up.  Padillah 20:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  pyrokinesis power 

message: I'm just curious if there's any actual evidence that Peter's memory loss at the beginning of season 2 is just because of amnesia. While that would be the apparent case, it seems like a large jump of a conclusion, especially with people like the Haitian running around. Jklharris 23:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was under the impression that the two are effectively synonymous (in particular because the film-land version Peter's suffering from is referred to as "cinematic/selective/whatever amnesia"), but if you think there's a significant difference, "memory loss" would be a more accurate description. What do others think? --Kizor 22:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  A possible reason for the amnesia plot is to keep Peter in the series, without having to recreate another nuclear bomb scenario... His power supposedly works on remembering how he felt about somone, his own words, so if he cant remember Ted Sprague, he shouldnt be nuclear. This is just an assumption though. It would make sense to try and stay away from the nuclear bomb scenario again for season 2, and this would be one way to accomplish this. Make sure Peter cant remember Ted, therefore cant go boom. Although, saying that, he has been using powers of people already, without remembering them, but saying that, he has been using those powers on reflex, when he needs to. He needed to get free from imprisonment, so he phased out of his bonds. He needed to heal, so he healed, he was being attacked, so he used electrical/radiation blast (electricity can be argued to be a form of radiation) and telekinesis. He was being attacked in Melee, so he defended himself with a super powered fist. It possible the electrical blast, is a more stable version of Ted Sprague's power, used by reflex, opposed to memory/emotion. Time will tell more. Baaleos 20:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amnesia 

message: :I think we're forgeting something relatively important here: powers grow. I know that this can be considered speculation, but it does make sense. Since the series began, we've seen characters learn to handle their powers, Matt doesn't get overwhelmed by everyone's thoughts anymore, Bennet said he was more powerful than they thought because he could get a thought from him in the presence of the Haitian (twice), Nathan learned how to fly better after the accident with Heidi, and learn to land better after running away from HRG and the Haitian, Ted learned to use his radioactive abilities in a non-destructive way. Since the addapt to their abilities, we should consider that Peter addapted to his as well, by having ratius of his mimicry increased, therefore explaining how he (presumably) got phasing from DL. 201.17.94.153 18:42, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I appreciate what you are trying to accomplish and, as a fan I agree with most of the assumptions made, but they are assumptions.  We can't entertain them for the article unless we can provide some third-party reliable citation for them.  Which sucks because it leaves this open hole but that's the way wiki is run.  Padillah 19:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed with Padillah. While they would make for an interesting read, it would still be OR and speculation. We def shouldn't be listing any powers Peter hasn't used yet. Peter may have picked up 100 powers just walking down the street but unless he uses one of those powers we shouldn't list it. Rekija 01:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Times like these make me hate the writters for leaving so many things unspecified, if they took just a little extra time to state limits and show how things work we wouldn't need to use our time trying to figure them out. 201.17.94.153 16:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assuming DL is the benefactor of Peters phasing ability. (Arbitrary split for ease of editing)

message: Hello everyone.  I think we need to change Peter's ability to empathic power absortion or duplication.  Because in Lizards, Peter used several power without mimicry.  I understand that in the past we were under the assumption that Peter could mimic the powers of the people that he met.  Like when he was thrown off Charles D building by Claude and then he remember Claire and was able to heal, therefore he mimicked her power.  But in Lizards he used phasing, electricity manipulation, regeneration, telekenisis and i think super strength and he doesnt remember Claire, D.L., Elle, niki or sylar.  So, how can we say that he is using mimicry??????  I think he has empathic power absortion or empathic power duplication.  But it certainly isnt mimicry after Lizards episode 2 or season 2. --76.168.220.243 05:14, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good points. It would help a lot if we had the offical term of the power from one of the producers or writers which we could use. Otherwise its just OR. Rekija 05:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He's still mimicking their powers... Ophois 11:35, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

text: As much as I'd love to believe this, activatingevolution.org is just a wiki and is editable by any user.  I don't think this is solid and reliable enough to call "official".  And we were so close.  Padillah 17:35, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right.  I was just searching activating evolution and i realized it was a wiki.  Yeah, we almost had it.  I am going to take the information down from the peter page if u havent already done it.  DAMN!!!  lol.  Anyway, I am going to ask the producers and see if they will answer me on the weekley heroes Q & A over at comicbookresources.com.--76.168.220.243 17:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unfortuncatatly not reliable. I quite liked the sound of Residual Emulation. Rekija 02:04, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Since Peter survived the "bomb" event, would loosing his memory of Ted Sprague remove his instability? Also, do we have an offical range on his mimicry power, or does it even have a range, since his power is linked to "how he feels about somone" surely that means that his power could mimic the power of anyone he see's and draw's a feeling upon seeing them, I raise this point because we could then say he got the phasing power from "seeing" DL. One could theorize that by loosing his memory of Ted, he lost the instability of the power, caused by the emotional attachment to the memory of Ted, but continued to possess the potential for radiation emission power on instinctive response, eg self defence or reflex. Peter has been seen to emit electrical bursts, its possible that these are clean versions of the Radiation Emission power, electricity exists on the electro-magnetic spectrum, along with other forms of radiation. I understand this may sound abit like a rant, but I am attempting to show possible source for the one/two new power's he has apparently acquired (I say one/two because if I am right, its possible the electrical blast is just a clean version of the radiation emission which is an old power.Baaleos 20:26, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How he feels about someone was just a convenient way for him to lean how to access the powers when he was training with Claude.  His power has not been shown to be based on line-of-sight so being able to see D.L. doesn't help.  As the main antagonist for this line of thinking I will admit that D.L. is probably who we are supposed to understand he got the power from (although, why he exhibited that power and not Nikki's strength I don't know).  But I also have to stand by WP:OR which is really hard given the passivity of Peter's powers.  Padillah 20:35, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Peter and Ted's radiation were tied to anger. Whenever they got angry they couldn't control it. This, along with Sylar activating his own radiation power that Peter would of be absorbing (entirely OR, except for Sylar's glowing hand) Sylar's radiation power while also losing control of his while being very angry and so forth. But since then he hasn't shown with that kind of anger. On the other hand, one would think that preventing him from exploding again would be the prime reason one would wish to wipe his memory...but still OR. So until it's explained in the show we can't comment on his stability Rekija 05:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Exiles' Mimic has a power similar to Peter.Ophois 04:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  empathic power mimicry 

message: Please stop putting down pointless notes like "He gains this power from Niki, and uses it to injure Sylar." we don't need to be noted he useses it to injuru Sylar" for Niki and for Phasing please stop putting down "He uses this power to escape having his hands tied in "Lizards", Thanks- RREDD13 20:31, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, I agree. It doesn't sound all that important. I think ones that impact him greatly (ie...explode) are notable uses, but how he uses most of the powers isn't that notable. Rekija 02:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps it can be better used to explain how the power works and to what it can be used, at least to as far as we know. For example, for time-space manipulation, we could explain that it can be used to freeze, slow down (possibly speed up as well), and reverse time, as well as move backward and forward through time, and teleportation. I know some may be self-explanatory (e.g. super strength), but would help for others powers that people may not know the details of, such as radiation.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akuzio (talk • contribs) 05:49, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Power Chart 

message: It is rather subtle but I believe that Peter first exibits the ablity to paint the future in the second episode, "Don't Look Back". He lays in a hospital bed and draws a scene of him floating that is later shown to come true. DougCube 04:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I didn't know it was considered subtle. Rekija 22:45, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Painting the Future 

message: During season 1, Peter has only demonstrated his own version of Sylar's telekinesis to a limited degree regarding control, as he was only able to telekinetically throw away people and objects a good distance away from himself, but apparently not below the level of Brian Davis, the original wielder of the ability, who was only able to move cups across the table. On the third episode of season 2, Peter has displayed being able to use the said power to choke the life out of a poor sucker (whom he first pinned to a wall via telekinesis) and even came close to snuffing him out if it hadn't been for Caitlin bringing him back to his senses. Sounds kinda familiar? Any Star Wars fan would fancy whether or not if Peter's beginning to succumb to the Dark Side to become the next Darth Vader, or if someother malevolent force is a work here, wouldn't you?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.60.247.98 (talk) 04:42, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darth Petrelli? 

message: Read the latest Graphic Novel, "Petrified Lightning." When Peter thinks of Caitlin, he is able to manifest his lightning abilities. He specifically states that thinking of Caitlin caused it. Peter tells Claude that to activate his powers, he needs to think of the people that gave them to him and how they make him feel. I'm sure it's Caitlin. What I'm not sure is if she is already aware of her own ability long before she met Peter or is she just playing dumb. Now I just need to figure out how he got them from her before they actually met, but I'm assuming he passed her somewhere in Ireland before he was caged. Don't worry, I'm not going to update it until there's further proof.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.126.212 (talk) 21:40, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He also says that he can read her mind. To me, this suggests that thinking of her gives him access to all his powers, not that he got the electricity power from her.Ophois 05:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

text: How do we know that the "blue lightning" power isn't just the electro-magnetic pulse Ted Sprague exhibited in .07%? It looks the same, and, whether it's physically possible in real life or not, an EMP in the Heroes Universe may be able to repel physical objects. - PeeJay 18:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Both Peter and Caitlin have referred to it as lightning and/or electrical.  An EMP has no physical manifestation.  And taking the point of view that it might have one in the TV world is easily countered with a reductio ad absurdum argument.  It's been referred to several times, in series, as electrical, so that's what we have to go with.  Padillah 19:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Wouldn't be the first time rumor info was radically wrong.  Padillah 19:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caitlin gave Peter his lightning abilities. I'm sure of it. 

message: In the "Powers" table, it says that Peter has Hiro's power and that so far he's shown the ability to freeze time....Where did this happen?
The dead don 17:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When he and Claude were confronted by Mr. Bennet and the Haitian.Ophois 17:36, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  false that power was Telekinesis. he shows the ability to use hiros power in five years gone, and it is a power he would of obtained within the current timeline 74.104.90.230 21:04, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a big discussion on it a long time ago, and the consensus was freezing time. Ophois 21:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I just looked at the episode, and he definitely was freezing time. The Haitian and Mr. Bennet (plus the flashing lights) freeze when he stops the taser prongs. Ophois 21:22, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, he did freeze the tazer, its just that it was portrayed in a bad way. If time stopped, then resumed, in theory, the tazer should have continued to hit him. However, the same thing happens when Hiro rewinds time, and knocks a gun out of that womans hand. Rewinding time wouldnt apply any actual motion, or force to an object, it would be in fact taking kinetic energy away, and moving the objects position back to where it would have been without the kinetic energy applied. Peter displays more of Hiro's powers when he freezes time, and teleports both himself, future Hiro, and Ando away from Parkman in the alternative future. It should be noted though, that Hiro is one of the first people that Peter encounters with super powers, as he walks past Hiro in a casino of Las Vega's long before they ever speak to eachother. Baaleos 20:16, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree that maybe it was just portrayed poorly, leaving things ambiguous to the viewer.  However, I could have sworn Claude was still moving or shaking on the ground when Peter stopped the taser.  More importantly, the sound effects and Peter's physical reaction were similar to when he stopped Claude's bo-staff and not anything like the sound effects when Hiro uses his power or when Peter uses it in Five Years Gone.  And setting ambiguity aside, the taser prongs dropping resembles Sylar's use of telekinesis.  For that to happen from freezing time, Peter would have had to physically intervene with them, like when Hiro pushes frozen arrows out of the way, etc.  And even then, they wouldn't fall straight down.  Peter used his mind to cancel the taser prongs momentum, something that would be done using telekinesis.  And just because this issue was discussed in the past and "resolved," that doesn't mean there is no longer room for further discussion and debate.  That's pretty much the whole point of wikipedia.  Scwatson 18:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought it referred to the incident when Peter first meets Future Hiro. It's important to note that everytime Hiro froze time, he was the only one unaffected by his own time freeze. The only incident where this doesn't happen is where Future Hiro went back where he AND Peter were unaffected by the time freeze. I think this is explained in that when Peter absorbed Hiro's power, he uncontrollably activated it to be in the same time freeze state as Hiro showing that they were both exerting power over time. The time freeze wears off only when Hiro leaves and Peter can't use his without him yet. Akuzio 13:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: when hiro reversed time on the girl with the gun. didn't he just reverse time around her? at which time the big guy knocked her over. or are you talking about a diff time? 99.246.102.154 04:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Umm...  most of things you've "edited" are not sourced to anything other than your interpretation of the episode -- apparently your senses are not terribly reliable.  The first time that Peter undeniably exhibits his ability to manipulate the space-time continuum (on his own) is in Five Years Gone.  Aside from that, it is anybody's best guess.  It is most definitely ambiguous as to what Peter does to stop the taser in Unexpected -- unless the writers or Tim Kring did an interview that I missed or that only you were privy to -- if that's the case, feel free to enlighten me.  Scwatson 01:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hiro's Power 

message: Worth noting that he clearly was healing from being shot in the chest with a gun while still pinning someone to the wall with his telekinesis? I would say that is a pretty clear indication that he can't use just one at a time. • Lawrence Cohen 21:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two powers at a time (again) 

message: I know that Claude said Pete was an empath, but it's not true.
Here is a link to another article that supports me:
I suggest that we change the article to say Pete's ability is "power absorption".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rapidwhirl (talk • contribs) 21:58, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just because comics have a certain meaning for "empath" doesn't mean that it's the same in Heroes. Ophois 22:49, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

text: He doesn't. He needs to remember his emotion when meeting the person to use his power. According to Claude, this is known as being an empath in the Heroes universe.Ophois 23:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

text: As shown in the show, he can still use his powers based on instinct. To consciously use his powers, he needs to remember emotions. Ophois 04:35, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Peter was within the range to use a power without needing an emotional attachment, and after that, anger or stress caused it to instinctively activate.Ophois 03:18, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

text: He seemed to freak out when his hands started glowing, that should be the emotional trigger he attached.
You are repeatedly stating that writers have the right to change the definitions of established words as they see fit. I challenge you to prove that Claude was referring to Peter's ability to absorb other abilities when he called him an empath. Here is my proof that Claude was referring to Peter's personality.
Peter doesn't have the "empath power" (for lack of a better term). He does go rather nicely under the definition of the empath personality. Currently, Peter does recall emotions in order to use the powers he absorbed, we think. The thing is, Peter isn't a robot; his character will always feel emotions.
Peter has shone anger when using his telekinesis, except for last week's episode, He didn't look angry when he moved the armored police vehicle. If anger or stress activates Ted's power, why didn't it turn off when Peter freaked out in Kirby Plaza? Why didn't it activate after he used lighting when he freaked out in the shipping crate? Why didn't it activate after the traitor shot him in the last episode? This last example would make anyone angry.
These are inconsistencies in the statement that Peter's emotions are his only triggers. It proves that he doesn't need them. Maybe Claude was right all along. Rapidwhirl 17:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Got it. It's power mimicry. (If Heroes ever crosses over into the Buffyverse, I'm betting that Peter will absorb the power of the Slayer.) Pokemon Buffy Titan (talk) 11:36, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peter's real power name 

message: There has been evidence that Peter could manifect the powers which he absorbs and use them to a far better degree compared to the original wielder of the ability. This was first seen when he first consciously mimicked Isaac Mendez' power of precognition within the latter's proximity (Isaac wasn't able to access his own powers at that time, mainly because he's out of drugs to shoot himself with). Another was when he managed to successfully recall Future-Hiro Nakamura's powers to stop time around two taser-projectiles (in time to prevent himself from getting hit straight in the eyes) fired at his direction, despite the Haitian within the immediate vicinity; which is something that the Present-day Hiro, as well as his Future-self, has not shown to be capable of whenever that Haitian is near   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.60.247.98 (talk) 08:36, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't recall Hiro ever being around the Haitian.  But Hiro has personality issues that lead to problems controlling his power, all on his own.  Peter doesn't suffer from the same personality issues.  As far as Isaac painting, the power itself was no better or worse.  It's just that Peter was never physically dependent on heroin so that dependency never manifested in him.  Isaac's power was never physically dependent on heroin, Isaac was.  I've not noticed any indication that Peter can use powers stronger or weaker than the person he acquired them from.  Better maybe but that's a question of training, and most of the Hero's have not had any training.  Padillah 17:28, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps someone can tell me how this discussion adds to the article? Remember, this isn't a fan forum. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 22:13, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite a few editions ago several editors were trying to find a way to work in this facet of Peter's power.  I was simply trying to dissuade any further attempts before going to edit war.  You really need to work on your WP:AGF  Padillah 11:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Perhaps, but when I see what appears to be cruft (after repeated enjoinings to avoid such), I tend to get a tad annoyed. There is no clear, citable evidence that Peter's ability is better than the original. Any argument to the contrary can be resolved by asking them to cite the source of such statements. When they can't, the matter is resolved. It really isn't that hard, and if I tend to be a bit brusque with folk wasting (both of) our time with speculation and original research in the Discussion page, then mea culpa. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 21:09, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, I understand the desire to bruise toes and apologies if I'm stepping on any with my remarks.  I know the written word is more difficult to imbue with nuance than the spoken and I'm a bit of a smart alec.  Hope I didn't go too far.  Padillah 21:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

text: As a matter of fact, I do find you to be a good influence in keeping all the crufty talk to a minimum. My comments were more directed towards those who feel this is as good a place as any to discuss their deductions regarding the show. That in particular drives me nuts. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 23:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better than the original 

message: After reviewing the first season of Heroes I have reason to believe Peter has another power, linked to Charles. Seeing as how around the time everybody was realizing their powers, Peter began having dreams around Charles, and that he entered some sort of flashback and had a conversation with him, I find it not hard to believe that Charles' power is somehow linked to that. I'm not saying we should add it to the powers and abilities section but perhaps mention it, in the visions section. That is of course, unless enough people support the idea. The power might somehow have to do with reacting to dreams in certain way, or having dreams that somehow provide guidance, which is what Charles was doing in the season finale.
LinkSlayer64 | SPEAK!, Speak NOW! 22:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's a pretty widely believe theory, but unless we have a good source for it then it can't be included in any part. We can't speculate, and we can't say what others are speculating unless that person is notifable. Ie, if Milo says that he thinks he got his visions from Charles then we can put that in the visions section (although not in the powers/abilities section as its still just his theory). But for us mortal men and women? Our theories and opinions don't belong on wikipedia. Rekija 08:10, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 08:32, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concerning Charles Deveaux/First Power 

message: "On a humourous note, Boul. Saint-Jacques is spelled as "Boul. Saint-Jaque"."
Maybe it's just me, I'm not quite getting the joke.--MythicFox 12:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bond. James Bond. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 13:17, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Humorous? 

message: If Peter is able to absorb the powers of those around him and he was able to absorbed the acquired power of telekinesis from Sylar, shouldn't he absorb Sylar's innate power and all of his aquired powers up to the kirby plaza?  I mean it's only logical. - David Firestorm 02:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He has.  Just because he has them, doesn't mean he knows how to use them. PureSoldier 03:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthermore, it doesn't mean we should waste time in a non-fan-forum talking about them. When they show up, they show up. We write about it, then. this is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper seeking to scoop the competition. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 03:48, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While wikipedia articles should not be overloaded with fan theories and the like, this discussion page is certainly fair game for posting ideas that could potentially impact the article either now or in the future.  Or at the very least, it is certainly the proper place for inquiring why something is not in the article (in this case, Peter absorbing all of Sylar's powers), and then getting an answer--which is what happened above.  Scwatson 17:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia articles and discussions shouldn't contain ANY "fan theories and the like", Scwatson, and that's wiki policy. The proper place for asking such questions is in a fan forum, not here. The reason the person's question was answered was  that someone had the time to respond to it. If you take the time to look at the tippy-top of this page, you will see a yellow box that discsusses how this isn;t a fan forum for theories and whatnot. Perhaps you missed it in your rush to respond. Now, maybe that last bit is a little bit unfair, but you are defending the inclusion of cruft, which is going to get you smacked around a bit. I am just the mailed hand in the velvet glove doing the slapping. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Seriously, how much time out of your life do you spend policing this one article?  Sheesh.  Hell, I added something to this article months ago that is PURE speculation, and nobody took it out.  Perhaps you are right -- maybe I don't know every single "rule" in the realm of wikipedia -- so I'll leave this article to your dubious guardianship, as you apparently have the time to monitor it 24/7.  Scwatson 01:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sylar's Powers through Peter 

message: What happened to the previous image of Petrelli, and when was it deleted out? I don't recall any argument of substance taking place here at all. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:53, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: never mind, i fixed the issue, and added two more images, illustrating how Mendez illustrated the exploding man and how Peter embodied it at the first season ender. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:47, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox image

message: I've asked for this article to be semi-protected in hopes of creating an article that's worth reading instead of fanboi cruft.  We'll see how it goes.  Padillah 19:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent, excellent idea.--Vg0131 00:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-Protection 

message: Current length is over 2,200 words. Don't get me wrong, it's a good read but its not encyclopaedic. I know his journey shows who Peter is, but we need to be able to tell readers about Peter without telling the story.
I think we should be focusing more on sections that focus on the relationships of characters, like Peter and Nathan and Peter and Claire. Things to do with powers can move into the powers section. Peter's travel to future can go in a section with 5 years gone to discuss Peter's role in saving the future and what he was like in the future we've seen.
It's a lot of work, and it will undo a lot of work that has already been done but neither is an excuse to leave the article in its present state. Rekija 21:48, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not sandbox your idea, Rekija, and show us what sort of things you think would work better? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 22:36, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

text: A problem that I have with the sandboxed versionis that it moves further into the in-universe format (which we need to avoid as unencyclopedic). maybe since there is a writer's strike on, some editors will have the time to weigh in with their thoughts. Cross your fingers, me maties... - Arcayne (cast a spell) 10:01, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot length 

message: do we need to add a small section on the artwork that peter has drawn? is that important.  i know we have on on isaac.  what about peter?
i mean he hasnt done much
#stick figure drawing
#completing the homecoming picture of sylar murdering debbie
#new york blowing up and ted sprague in ep. the hard part
#montreal at monroes apartment
are these notable enough for inclusion on this page or the artwork by isaac page??--Chrisisinchrist 18:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is clear that Peter has drawn and will draw more in the future. So, yes. Hooty88888 (talk) 19:59, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  artwork of peter petrelli 

message: I don't know if this is worth mentioning, but in the most recent episode, he recalls a past memory that wasn't there.  Does anyone think that this could be from Sylar's stolen enhanced memory?  --Sivak 02:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It doesn't really matter what we think, as it wont be able to be put in the article unless its stated in the show or one of the writers mentions it. But anythings possible. Rekija 03:03, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really pertinent, is it? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 01:21, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

text: The easiest way to rebut this is to explain that she didn't project her thoughts.  As we have now learned that was Peter's healing factor kicking in and repairing the memories.  Angela's power is still no where on the horizon.  Padillah 18:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enhanced memory? 

message: I've removed text from the article that said Peter's healing abilities allowed him to "reform" after the explosion. Given that we don't know what happened, we can't say that he "blew up". (For that matter, we don't even know if he had to heal - Ted never seemed to suffer from his energy bursts, so there is no reason to suspect that Peter would.) Thoughts? --Ckatzchatspy 08:48, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call. Thanks for catching it. :) - Arcayne (cast a spell) 02:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Healing factor" 

message: Someone should remove this crap: "He inadvertently uses Parkman's mind-reading ability to unlocks all of her memories of him." It is nowhere said, shown, told, proven that he used a power for it. And why would his mothers memories include HER face and not his?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.166.128.253 (talk) 09:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I'm usually more on the ball than that but it looks like we've got editors that are very good at hiding their edits behind spelling corrections.  It's a common trick.  Padillah 13:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

text: While I won't speak to its relevance to the article as a whole, I think it's pretty clear from watching that scene that he's using his ability to read minds based on visual and audio queues the show uses to indicate when Parkman is doing the same (and when Peter has done it in the past).  Clearly, the producers are communicating these queues to the audience for a reason, and to simply ignore them because no one comes out and says "Hey, you just read my mind!" is irresponsible. Stevenbdjr 19:57, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then you are watching a different show than I am.  I've never seen Matt get pictures from reading minds.  When have they ever used the effect of zooming into Matt's iris to indicate he's reading a mind?  If you can clear-up the complete inconsistency with any other instance of either Matt or even his father, let me know.  Otherwise they best we can gather is that it's the same effect as when Peter consciously activated his healing to "heal his mind".  Padillah 20:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, maybe I should've been more clear.  I wasn't referring to the picture sequence which I admit has been unique, I was referring to the "jumping" picture and that sound (sort of like a "thwap" noise) they use with Matt and Peter when "reading" minds, which they used with Peter in that scene just before the sequence of pictures. Anyway, it's not that important so I don't know why I'm banging away at it, and I don't want to turn this into a Heroes discussion forum.  I think we can say that Peter began to recover his memories upon meeting his mother, and recovered them in whole after talking with Adam and using his regenerative abilities. Stevenbdjr 20:57, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

text: the anon user is correct. Adam told Peter to heal his memories, and thusly he did. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 02:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Adam told him to think of someone that matters to him to heal his mind. He looked at the picture to think of nathan to heal his mind. The same could be for another member of his family.Akuzio (talk) 08:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm a bit confused by what your saying. From what i get from it, you think people are saying that maury or matt unlocked his memories. Nobody is saying this. they are saying he used the telepathy he ABSORBED from matt to read angela's memories.Akuzio (talk) 01:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

text: To be clear, I wasn't saying thats what happened, only that people THINK thats what happened. I believe, as is consensus, it was peters healing factor. And yea, no further need for discussion.Akuzio (talk) 13:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Memory of his mother 

message: Can we decide on a number of categories to place him in and leave it at that?  Given his power he has every opportunity to be in EVERY SUPER-POWERED CATEGORY ON WP!  That's just fancruft.  We need to decide the most pertinent and leave it at that.  Padillah 20:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Rely on his root ability (empath) and leave the rest to the article. There is no one acquired ability that distinguishes him more than any other, so this could quickly get out of hand. Also, is the "Fictional Nurse" category even relevant to his character anymore? Stevenbdjr 21:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I kinda like this idea, but the base power isn't empathy (as if this hasn't been talked to death at least twice before), but instead power mimicry/absorbtion. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 02:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

text: There, ditched them all, including Italian American since it's never been mentioned on the show.  I looked for "Fictional characters with Power Mimicry" but couldn't find it.  Padillah 14:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many categories are we going to add to this poor guy? 

message: The article says Peter first used space/time manipulation in Collision, but there's no proof that Peter was actually using the power. It could be that Future Hiro can choose what to leave unpaused. (In this case he left Peter unpaused.) The first exhibited column should be changed to "Disputed" for this power. Josh (talk | contribs) 18:43, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are a little late on the discussion.  Please check the archives for the complete discussion that took place.  Writer of the show, Aron Coliete, who recently wrote "Out of Time" or "the line" (cant remember which one) already stated in a question and answer at comicbookresources, that peter froze time.  You can go to comicbookresources.com and research in the archive for an article entitled "behind the eclipse"  you can also check the archives of the peter petrelli discussion board for the actual arguements from other users. --Chrisisinchrist (talk) 03:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I couldn't find anything at comicbookresources and previous discussions in this page's archives were about Unexpected, not Collision. Josh (talk | contribs) 03:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Space/time manipulation exhibited in Collision 

message: I admit it has been fun to come to Wiki to see what others were saying about the show, but after seeing the fights and dissensions on how the article should portray certain characters, concepts or whatever, I have to ask, is an encyclopedia an appropriate place for this information being that it is not factual (I admit there are articles such as Superman in Britannica, but it's quite short (~213 words) and doesn't go in depth into any specific plot)?  That's what fansites are for.  Of course, I am but one person and most likely this comment will go largely ignored.  But it's my $.02 nonetheless. Jshatch (talk) 06:36, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I understadn wht you mean, but Wikipedia isn't a normal encyclopedia in that it tends to have articles on whatever folk want to write about. The idea is that there is no snooty sockbat telling someone that they cannot writean article on, say Green Lantern or 300 or Anne Coulter. Sometimes the articles are - for lack of better words - stupid, repugnant or trivial, but the larger portion of the regular folk who contribute to Wikipedia tend to weed those out. As well, most of the articles tend to be viciously pruned to remove fancruft and uncited information, If you think that this isn't addressed enough. maybe you can take a moment and tell me what (about this article) which you feel in not encyclopedic. It would help me understand what you are aiming for. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 09:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

text: He makes a very good point: These articles are about fictional universe, they should be about the impact the show has had on the real world.  WP:FICTION says we should be writing about the impact and impression this show has on the real world.  I don't agree, I have no problem with synopsis, so long as it's kept clean.  But it is a good point.  Padillah (talk) 14:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't looking to destroy all of what has been done to date, and I know next to nothing about how to write a proper encyclopedia article.  It is definitely an interesting read, however I am unsure how in-depth an encyclopedia article on a work of fiction should go.  At this time anyone can read the main Heroes (TV Series) article and surf from there for a bit and have most if not all the same knowledge of the show as those who watched it (short of reading the transcript).  Not that it's a bad thing -- I often come here to revisit something that I might have missed.  But again, that's what fansites are for.  I appreciate the control Wikipedia has over the induction of OR in articles, and I even like reading the talk pages so I can catch a glimpse of the OR people are discussing. :)  But, the fact that I (and many others) enjoy coming here doesn't keep me from asking the question I did.  An encyclopedia covers all branches of knowledge, and I suppose that includes fiction too. :)  I'm just wondering how much these topics should be covered... Jshatch (talk) 07:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Wikipedia the appropriate place for topics based on a fictional universe?