Talk:Japanese dialects

message: I think all of the Japanese words should be given in kanji/kana alongside the roomaji. In addition to helping resolve ambiguities inherit with Hepburn romanization (ねえ vs ねー, おう vs おお), it makes it easier on students of the language reading this article. Epich 23:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Add Japanese script

message: I added the few last revisions, and I would like to bring attention to the "chari" word for bike.  I know it was used in Shiga Prefecture, but I don't know to what extent it is used in Kansai, though I think it is pretty general Kansai speak.  I think.
Alan 20:15, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it's just Kansai.  I live in Ibaraki, on the edge of Kantō, and it's called chari here, too.  While I'm not sure of the word's geographic origins, I've never heard of the "chariot" derivation.  I have, though, heard that it comes from チャリンチャリン, the sound of the bell.  I won't remove anything right now, and I'll start asking around if anyone's heard of a Kansai (or Shiga) origin.  But regardless of its origins, I think this entry is probably more suited for general Japanese language slang.  JFHJr (㊟) 04:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a common word across Japan. We call it that in Tōhoku as well. Erk|Talk -- I like traffic lights -- 03:09, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chari

message: It seems that the attempt to understand Japanese dialects invites comparisons to familiar dialects and regionalisms in the English language.  I believe that such analogies are invariably flawed, inaccurate, misleading, unsupported by any scholarly research, and perpetuate regional biases and stereotypes of one culture into another culture.  Further, they invariably seem to be biased toward regionalisms of the US.  If it's documented that Southern US English has been rendered into Japanese using Tohoku-ben it's fine to state the existence of this situation.  The current version of the Kansai-ben section does a good job of characterizing this situation.  But I don't think we should not be making comments like "Tohoku-ben is roughly analagous to Southern US English".  It's fine for rhetorical discussions at the bar on Saturday night, but in an encyclopedic article I will remove such statements as I see them.  Of course if someone can show published research that supports these assertions, I'll defer to that.  The Hokkaido Crow 01:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding analogies to dialects of other countries 

message: With regards to the "Common Phrases Unique To..." section, I believe that many of those words are no longer unique to the Kansai dialect. For example, although attributed originally to the Kansai dialects, "aho" is widely used these days. Also, "yaru" is also used as "give" in hyoujungo, as a variant of "ageru" used in particular when the speaker considers the "receiever" to be of lower status. However, I will leave this is a comment for now. As with most of the Japan related entries, this section still needs a lot of work! 
Lenny-au
"konyanyachiwa" is never spoken in Kansai. It is only used in a Japanese manga "Tensai Bakabon".
Joh Shoh 17:42, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Kansai and Osaka comments

message: How about adding a section on top for general dialectal slang, stuff that's fairly generic? -ai and -oi tend to become -ee (as in shiranai becomes shiranee), ja nai can become ya nai, that kind of stuff. I'd do it myself but I don't know very much. Bigpeteb
Well, I decided to be bold and added this. It's not much, but it's a start. Hopefully other people can clean it up some, expand it, and maybe integrate it more into the article. Bigpeteb 15:07, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Shall we categorize "generic" slang?

message: I put the hyphen back in o-ban desu in the Hokkaido dialect section. The hyphen separating honorifics from words helps to make the meaning clear, and is standard practice in romanization. Otherwise in this instance it could be confused with oban which was a type of currency in the Edo era. — Ts'éiyoosh 18:54, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Hokkaido comments

message: I just made some changes to the discussion in the "Dialects or languages?" section. First, I changed "others" to be "other people" so that linguists are not lumped into the category of people who believe Okinawan is Japanese. The perception that Okinawan is a separate langauge among linguists is nearly universal outside of Japan, and certainly the majority view inside of Japan. It would be difficult even in Japan to find a linguist today who claims otherwise, though many such claims were made in the past. Second, I mentioned Ainu as a language which is felt to be non-Japanese by nearly everyone in Japan, linguist or not. It seems like a good contrast to make.
NPOV aside, the claim that Okinawan is Japanese is pretty heavily contradicted by linguistic data and analysis. I suppose it should be left to indicate to the reader that there is some debate, but the people doing the arguing against Okinawan as a separate language have significant political motives which are difficult to capture in this article and are really beside the point in this subject. Perhaps I (or someone else) will add in some commentary about the political aspects of Japanese dialects and the Okinawan language argument. — Ts'éiyoosh 02:36, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Okinawa comments

message: The article has a header Japanese dialects#Umpaku. It's between Chugoku and Shikoku in the listing. I can't recall hearing this term before. Does anyone know what it means? Fg2 07:21, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably :ja:雲伯方言, though I myself have never heard of it (worse, I don't know many of dialects on :ja:方言...). - Marsian / talk 09:35, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, that must certainly be it. Fg2 20:54, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is "umpaku"? 

message: I added a cleanup tag here.  The organization of this article is all over the place.  Some sections have bullets with geographic locations, with no mention as to why those locations are there, while some have examples of the dialects.  Others have links to specific dialect pages.
I would suggest picking one format and staying with it. Kcumming 19:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: The article leaves a lot of question open. There is next to nothing to be found about dialect use in present-day Japan. Most western countries have been experiencing various level of dialect loss for at least the last 50 years. In some countries (eg France, England), old-fashioned rural dialects have practically ceased to exist at all. 
Is dialect use still widespread in Japan?
Are children growing up speaking dialect, standard Japanese or both, as a rule?
Are dialects converging towards regional norms or standards?
Is there a social dialect continuum from basilectal to acrolectal varieties?
I do not know any of the answers, but I am sure there must be Wikepedians who do.Unoffensive text or character 13:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Almost all of this article is about dialect use in present-day Japan.  Rural dialects are very much alive, in fact the dialects that are documented as being in decline are certain urban aristocratic dialects in Tokyo and Osaka.   Generally in school, a neutral dialect is used, and the regional dialect is reinforced outside of school.   As to the change and flow, it's difficult to make any generalization except to say that language is in a constant state of change.  The Crow 13:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dialect use 

message: A Bibliography of Japanese Dialects (1950) PDF, full text Fg2 03:16, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potentially useful reference 

message: Iyo-ben is spoken in Ehime prefecture and is similar to Hiroshima-ben and other dialects in its use of けん (gen) for から (kara) ("because") and おる (oru) (and derivatives) for いる (iru). Some unique features of Iyo-ben include the use of が (ga) to replace the inquisitive か (ka), わい (wai) as a sentence-final particle similar to よ (to), and more limited regional variations such as 〜てや (deya)
There are two contradictions between kana and romaji in this.  けん (gen) the kana read "ken" and よ (to), the kana is "yo".  I know enough to know that for the second one, "yo" is correct (and I'm changing it now), but what about the first and third?  Are the kana correct there, too, with incorrect romaji, or are the kana missing a dakuten? Nik42 23:17, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iyo-ben contradictions 

message: Can anyone please take a look at the article Kesen language?
It looks a little weird to me. I explained my concerns at the talk page there.
Thanks in advance. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 21:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Some users suggested a merge, but some others think that it should be deleted. Since no-one is replying here i am proposing a deletion. Please correct me if i'm wrong. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:30, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kesen language 

message: I realize the Japanese term for dialects is 〇〇-ben, but shouldn't we make the links "〇〇 dialect"? All of the pages listed in :Category:Dialects of Japan use that naming order. Does someone want to help with the updating? Douggers (talk) 04:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The articles themselves had inconsistent naming until I changed them all to "○○ dialect."  Go ahead and change the links.  -Amake (talk) 11:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, I'll get to work on it the best I can. Douggers (talk) 00:22, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  〇〇-ben 

message: Regarding the Gyokuon-hōsō, a number of sources report that it was given in the dialect spoken at the Imperial court, and was extremely difficult for commoners to understand. Can someone add a section to this article discussion the dialect of the Imperial court that I can link to from Surrender of Japan? Raul654 (talk) 23:53, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The manuscript of the speech was written in Classical Japanese language and Hirohito used the intonation of shinto prayer/chanting for ceremonies. Besides the condition of the AM broadcasting was very bad, with lots of noises and not as clear as today's. That is why the speech was difficult to understand. I don't think it could be called as a dialect. See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 November 26#Hirohito's speech: 1945 and afterwards. Oda Mari (talk) 06:26, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Imperial court

message: "The Hiroshima dialect is regarded as a very manly sounding dialect. That is to say, tough and hard."
I think this should be taken out, it's just an opinion, unless there is some study claiming that Hiroshimaben is a manly sounding dialect. ILuvEire (talk) 00:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hiroshimaben 広島弁 

message: (moved to Talk:Tsushima dialect#Limited Korean influence. — kwami (talk) 00:50, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Tsushima dialect

message: There is no such thing as "Standard Japanese" which is regulated or prescribed by a public office or organization. Therefore, "and while it was based initially on the Tokyo dialect, the language of Japan's capital has since gone in its own direction to become one of Japan's many dialects." doesn't make sense. What's this "Standard Japanese" supposed to mean? What is commonly called "標準語" or "共通語" is nothing but a popular Tokyo dialect which is commonly called 山の手言葉 and which, in turn, commonly means a Tokyo dialect which is spoken in western region of Tokyo.--220.108.212.251 (talk) 16:48, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree and disagree.  I agree that Wikipedia is all messed up with regard to the following topics:  Tokyo Dialect, Standard Japanese, Yamanote Speech.  Here is the situation according to me:  There is a standard Japanese, and it is the language that is spoken by 90% of the people who live in the Tokyo area.  Perhaps 10% (or less) of the people who live in Tokyo (mostly elderly now) were raised in the Shitamachi area, roughly around a line extending from Kanda to Asakusa and neighboring areas.  Those people have a Shitamachi dialect.  But 90% (or more) of the people who live in Tokyo speak standard Japanese as their native language.  What is "standard Japanese"?  It is the language that all the newscasters use.  It is the standard language of most Japanese films and TV dramas.  It is the language used by TV and radio news broadcasts across almost all of Japan's local regions.  It is analogous in these ways to Standard American English, which began in roughly southern Iowa and is now the most common accent.  Try going to Kagoshima and listening to the local TV or radio news broadcasts.  They don't speak Kagoshima-ben; they use the language of Tokyo.  There is such a thing as Standard Japanese, but there is no such thing as a "Tokyo Dialect".  There is a Shitamachi dialect spoken by a very small percentage of Tokyo residents, but there is no Tokyo Dialect.  I would also point out that Japanese Wikipedia is just as messed up on this point.  Take a look at the Japanese article on "Tokyo Hogen".  It is just as messed up as the English side.  For example:  (1) No one in Tokyo says "be" at the end; that is Tohoku.  (2) "Tsuyu" is not a dialectal word, it is the standard Japanese word for the rainy season.  (3) Saying "jan" instead of "janai" is not a Tokyo-specific usage.  It is a standard colloquial contraction throughout Japan.  --Westwind273 (talk) 20:02, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standard Japanese 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion