Talk:Lady Randolph Churchill

message: It should be noted that Lord Randolph Churchill had contracted the syphillis that killed him at the age of 45 prior to marrying Jennie. This inclines one to believe that "Randy" (as he was ironically known) was not Jack's father, since Jennie would presumably cease having sex with her husband immediately upon discovering that he was syphallitic. Besides, 56 isn't so remarkably old to father a child with a young and fertile woman.
Oh, and what the Churchills were doing in Ireland was that they had to leave England after Randy deeply offended the Prince of Wales by brandishing a stack of the latter's love letters to one of his early mistresses. Dick Kimball (talk) 20:19, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Jennie's biographers insist that her maternal great-grandfather was an Iroquois Indian. The article keeps trying to downplay this fact. The Hall family themselves admitted it before celebrities started claiming Cherokee grandmothers.--jeanne (talk) 15:51, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Re: Syphillis: Did Jennie ever show signs of infection with the disease, herself? Apparently her first husband went into long periods of remission, but I'd think he'd be infectious nevertheless (?) Codenamemary (talk) 21:23, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Marriage and Adultery

message: According to her 1969 biography, Lady Randolph Churchill, by her niece, Anita Leslie, Jennette "Jennie" Jerome was the second of Leonard Jerome's three (not four) daughters: Clara, Jennie, and Leonie, in that order. I also definitely think it's worth mentioning that Leonard owned The New York Times. Dick Kimball (talk) 13:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Early Life

message: Given that I would venture to say that her number one claim to fame is her being the mother of Winston Churchill, I think a greater elaboration of her rather dysfunctional relationship with him would be appropriate. 152.15.161.242 (talk) 18:29, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Winston Churchill 

message: I Should have thought that some of the more outradious claim made in this article should be presented alongside some for of evidence before posted in Wikipedia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.114.91.226 (talk) 16:03, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What are these "outradious" (normally spelt "outrageous", btw) claims to which you refer?  --  Jack of Oz  ... speak! ...  21:29, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evidence. 

message: There seems to be some dispute over Lady Randolph's birthplace.  In her autobiography, she clearly states she was born in Brooklyn.  Blake McKelvey's Rochester: A Panoramic History () indicates that there has been some confusion over the years: "A tradition, confusing Jenny with one of her cousins, that she had been born in Rochester and attended school here (though refuted in her autobiography) was widely enough held to persuade the University of Rochester to confer an LL.D. on Winston in 1942."
On the other hand, Leonard Jerome, Jennie's father, is said in the same book to have moved to Brooklyn in 1856, which is two years after this article indicates she was born.  If that's true, then she was born in Rochester but not schooled there, which fits with the quoted sentence but flatly contradicts Jennie's own autobiography.
I think we can agree she was raised and schooled in Brooklyn; if she ever lived in Rochester, it was likely for less than three years.  But on the question of whether she was born in Rochester, I'm not sure how to resolve it.
Thoughts?
-- Powers T 20:51, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthplace 

message: I've removed the unreferenced claim that one of Lady Randolph's lovers was King Milan I of Serbia and added another lover who at least is cited in Manchester. I simply don't have a reputable source to hand that cites King Milan. If anyone does, please add him him back, although I think the three lovers cited is an adequate sample. Welham66 (talk) 13:07, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lady Randolph's Lovers 

message: I'm not sure which sources to rely upon on the issue of the spelling of Montague or Montagu Phippen Porch. Another editor corrected from the former to the latter recently. I had adopted the spelling in Mary Lovell's 2011 book about The Churchills. I assumed I must be in error when I checked that 'Montagu' is indeed the spelling in sources such as Martin Gilbert and William Manchester. Then, I checked around the web. On this site we have the article Robert Porch where the 'e' is used, documented by a genealogical site link. Another genealogical site, which looks reputable, also includes the 'e': http://www.thepeerage.com/p10620.htm#i106195  There appear to be reputable sources for both spellings. Can anybody help or suggest a solution?  Welham66 (talk) 13:15, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Montague or Montagu Phippen Porch? 

message: Apparently, her entire "legacy", apart from being the mother of Winston Churchill, is that she named a drink.  And that story has been debunked as impossible.  Therefore, I recommend that this entire article be deleted as this person is not noteworthy, and does not meet the Wikipedia standard for noteworthy persons. She did nothing in her lifetime that would merit an article in Wikipedia.  98.194.39.86 (talk) 10:18, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Absurd suggestion! Mother of Sir Winston makes her very notable, along with much else.--Dthomsen8 (talk) 18:13, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

text: One major problem is that this article is structured far too heavily on her personal life, which obscures her achievements aside from marrying and birthing famous people. There have literally been books written about Lady Churchill yet this article makes the briefest mentions (if at all) of her as a playwright, philanthropist, artist, etc. I suspect the editors have been too strongly influenced by snippets of Lady Churchill found in her son's numerous biographies. We need better coverage from works that focus on Lady Churchill herself. Its lazy to leave a list of books in "Further reading" without actually using any of their content. --Animalparty! (talk) 22:48, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: According to Lady Randolph's biographical entry on Encyclopaedia Britannica , her name was given as "Jeanette", and was later abbreviated to "Jennie". For further information check out this link: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jennie-Jerome-Churchill. 
Thus, based on the information provided by that biographical entry, I believe it is right to refer to Lady Randolph as "Jeanette". However, it could be argued that she was known throughout her life as "Jennie". So I suggest that Lady Randolph's original name (Jeanette) be mentioned on the Wikipedia page that is referring to her and not be wholly omitted, as is now the case. A solution for that matter could be that we mention once that her original name was "Jeanette Jerome", but she was commonly known as "Jennie Jerome", in order to provide better information. So, the best solution for me would be that Lady Randolph's name written in bold letters at the beginning of the article be "Jeanette (Jennie), Lady Randolph Spencer-Churchill", (née Jeanette (Jennie) Jerome). Yours sincerely. DukeofCleveland DukeofCleveland (talk) 22:27, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi .  Except that, without trying to be pedantic, 'later abbreviated to "Jennie"' is not what Britannica says; it merely says she was 'née Jeanette Jerome' while naming her (well, naming the article) 'Jennie Jerome Churchill', which is similar, but not actually the same.  Since there is a specific note and reference given in the article which strongly implies that Jennie was the name, not Jeanette, unless we have a specific reference ~ ideally one which addresses the marriage certificate itself, so we don't engage in our own research/assumptions ~ i suggest we leave the name as Jennie. Happy days, LindsayHello 12:26, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: She was poor after the death of Lord Randolph??? 72.49.111.86 (talk) 13:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It's all relative, I expect. Some people then thought they were poor if they only had 3 servants. Johnbod (talk) 15:37, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "impecuniosity"? 

message: I’ve heard mention she may have been a mistress of Edward VII, and she is even placed in a Wikipedia category of such mistresses. Yet no mention of it is made in the article. SecretName101 (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite right; well spotted.  I've removed the category as, according to the requirements at WP:CAAP, it does not belong; even Edward VII says , implying there is no certainty about it.  If at some point an RS making it clear she was a member of the category appears, and if we subsequently add the information to the article, i would think it would be appropriate; otherwise, surely not. Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 12:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Mistress of Edward VII"?