Talk:Famine

message: I would propose the following structure:
*Definition of Famine
*Famine in contemporary societies
**Hotspots of Famine
**Causes of Famine
**Responses to Famine
*Historical famine, by region
**Famine in Africa
**Famine in Asia
**Famine in Europe
**Famine in North America
**Famine in South America
*Links to infamous famines or famine-related topics
*Links to external resources on current and historical famine
--Ilya 11:43, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the issue that needs to be made clear is that food shortages are a necessary, but insufficient, condition for a modern famine.  So the explanation, "Famines are caused by lack of food" is often misleading.  - BanyanTree 05:10, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  early discussion 

message: I disagree with the opening to this section, many famines are caused by food shortages (often due to plant disease), made worse by administrative mismanagement. I will make adjustments if there are no complaints.--nixie 02:08, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the issue that needs to be made clear is that food shortages are a necessary, but insufficient, condition for a modern famine.  So the explanation, "Famines are caused by lack of food" is often misleading.  - BanyanTree 05:10, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Causes of famine

message: There is a discussion at Talk:Food security about merging at least some of the content of famine scales into this article.  Please offer your thoughts there. - BanyanTree 13:54, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind, I've looked into the topics more carefully, there seem to be subtle differences between the two. Cliff12345 (talk) 08:53, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  discussion about merging content in 

message: In contrast, the Irish Potato Famine (1845-1849) was in no small part the result of policies of the Whig government of the United Kingdom under Lord Russell. Unlike a government facing revolt at home, the London-based government stood by its commitment to laissez-faire economics, even in the face of massive starvation in Ireland.
How are protectionist import tariffs to be seen as laissez-faire eocnomics? Intangible 20:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Those import tariffs being the Corn Laws prior to Russells occupation. Intangible 02:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish Potato Famine 

message: Famine had been relatively rare during the sixteenth century. The economy and population had grown steadily as subsistence populations tend to when there is an extended period of relative peace (most of the time). How on earth can the 16th century be described as a period of relative peace? Please read Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, Philip II of Spain, Italian Wars, Peasants' War, Counter-Reformation, Anglo-Spanish War (1585), French Wars of Religion, Eighty Years' War, ... Were the major powers ever at peace during this century? Piet 12:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  16th century 

message: This article needs the attention of somebody familiar with Chinese history.  The communal dining halls, as per my understanding, played only a small role in the Great Leap's failure and there was poor weather according to almost all Sinologists except Jasper Becker (Jung Chang and Jon Halliday, who also claim that there was no poor weather, cite Becker as well).  See Three Years of Natural Disasters for more on the poor weather.  Also, the agricultural policies were not reversed in 1978, they were reversed in 1960 - 1961.  --219.77.177.93 16:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great Leap Forward Famine 

message: There's a famine right now over there, why not list that one? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.154.161.38 (talk • contribs) 17 September 2006.
-Are there any sources for this? Béka 17:17, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phillippines 

message: "The Great Famine of 1315-1317 (or to 1322) was the first crisis that would strike Europe in the 14th century, millions in northern Europe would die over an extended number of years..."
Does anyone else find this sentance poor?  The subject is famine not politics of Europe in the 14th century and it says that the famine killed people over a 'number of years'.  If it is 1315-1317 then the number is 3 but whenever the famine ended the second half of the sentance sounds wrong to me.
Further on it says "Nonetheless, they [peasants] generally tried to work as little as possible, valuing their time to do other things, such as hunting, fishing or relaxing, as long as they had enough food to feed their families".  Surely this is a statement of the obvious.
"Farmers, people who rented land in order to make a profit off of the product of the land, employing wage labour, became increasingly common, particularly in western Europe"  This implies that a farmer is someone who rents land in order to make a profit.  It might just be bad punctuation but surely farmers are people who farm land, the work does not mean that the land is rented.
"They produced guaranteed surpluses of their crop every year if they could"  guaranteed or not?
ETC..  Basically I dispute that this article maintains the high standards required by "Wikipedia CD Selection 	Famine is either included in the Wikipedia CD Selection or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version (the project page is at WPCD Selection). Please maintain high quality standards, and if possible stick to GFDL images."
Mtpaley 23:13, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Great Famine of 1315-1317

message: The following was removed by Merzbow as uncited POV material (after the statement about Bihar). It is true that it has no explicit citation. The same can be said of most of the article. As for POV, though, the only parts of this that strike me as POV are the few that I have bolded. What else here is in POV?:
It is the closest independent India came to a famine. The increase in food to the population is also reflected in the fact that in the 50 years of British rule (1891 to 1941) the population grew by 35% (from 287 million to 389 million) whereas in the 50 years of democratic rule from 1951 to 2001 the population grew by 183% (from 363 million to 1,023 million). The fact that there have been no famines even with a population that has almost tripled makes it an even more impressive achievement for the democratic government.
- Jmabel | Talk 23:09, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The paragraph is stating that an 'increase in food' is responsible for the higher growth rate of Indian population after British rule. I would submit there could be many other factors just as important, such as medical technology. That claim needs a cite. - Merzbow 01:53, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The first sentence is the problem - it is not stating facts, it is analyzing and judging facts. That analysis needs to be sourced to somebody qualified to make such an analysis. - Merzbow 01:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For now, I would just include the facts in the last sentence in the article (although it would be nice if they were sourced also) and readers can draw their own conclusions. If we then find a historian who wants to analyze the facts in more detail, it can be added later. - Merzbow 05:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Please note the tiny little world: functioning democracy. "No monarchy" does not always mean this. Many third world countries are officially democracies, but in reality not functioning ones. And was there really a famine in Brazil 1915? Do you have any sources for this? I have heard of a famine in 1877/78, and of course there was and still is chronic hunger in the nordeste. Amartya Sen admits that the chronic hunger of poor people can exist even in a functioning democracy. Béka 18:42, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The sources says Turk official, not Ottoman official, and so I have corrected that. Brimba (talk) 01:27, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed material 

message: Correct me if I am wrong but there is still a famine in Ethopia, this page refers to it in the past tense and like it has been resolved. 212.42.190.101 15:07, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethiopian Famine  

message: I have added stuff on famins in Niger and the Sahel and 2 photos.--82.18.204.15 (talk) 02:33, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Niger and the Sahel

message: this article badly needs worldwide perspective of PRESENT conditions cumulatively over all regions. and comparison with historical conditions worldwide. it reads like a one dimensional high school paper country by country but gives the reader very little on the big picture. also much more is needed on the associative factors such as of growth stunting of children, etc. the article reads like katie couric reads the evening news: disaster all around and the reader keeps smiling.  most readers of the present article will have no idea how widespread present famines are and the number of people affected.  Anlace 03:57, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Perspective needed

message: This edit removed the views of the Borgen Project, and also removed the Borgen Project from the external links, describing it as "POV". Obviously, on controversial matters, the views of any advocacy group represent that group's POV, but our NPOV standard does not mean that we don't report them: instead, we should be searching for other views, and all views should be attributed. The Borgen Project is by no means unique in considering famine a solvable problem (Food First, among others, certainly shares this opinion), so this was by no means a marginal view. I think this should be reverted, possibly reworded, and that various other views on whether famine is or is not currently solvable worldwide should be added. - Jmabel | Talk 17:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Borgen project 

message: A 2003 article from the FAO website says, "According to the report, several countries in Central and West Africa have seen their numbers of hungry people rise due to conflict."  According to the BBC, during the late 20th century, Zimbabwe had been growing enough food to feed itself, and was known as "the breadbasket of southern Africa." However, in the early 21st century, President Robert Mugabe seized the farmland from the farmers, and kicked the farmers out of the country. This created a famine.  North Korea also had a worsening food situation in the early 21st century, and this has been blamed on the country's bad economic policies.  Mexico's worsening food situation has been blamed on the U.S. government, which purchases large quantities of corn to make ethanol. This drives up the price of corn, which is the main food staple in Mexico. 
The above text I personally find to be misleading, but i dont like to delete sourced material, so Ive moved it to this article's talk page for consideration here. Sekolov 18:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In case anyone is interested, I came across this article  last December, showing that mixed prairie grasses were better than corn for biofuel. Brian Pearson 02:20, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Material more relevant to [[Famine]] than [[Overpopulation]]

message: "This research also has environmental implications for badly needed increases in food production on marginal soils in developing countries," said Kochian. "For example, if we can increase food production on existing lands, it could limit encroachment into other areas for agriculture."  Brian Pearson 02:09, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  aluminum-tolerance gene in sorghum 

message: Kerry Britton, PhD, of the US Forest Service, in a recent phone interview, said that there is belief that China has less kudzu than America because of this famine. Kudzu originated in China and would seem to, but doesn't cover more ground there as a super plant than in other countries with only around 130 years of habitat in the US. It may be that kudzu is a survival food during famine. If that is the case, people who did survive may have survived with the help of kudzu.
* "in a recent phone interview" is no citation to speak of
* "recent" as of when?
* "said that there is belief": by whom? Is he/she even endorsing that believe
* "would seem to, but doesn't cover more ground there as a super plant than in other countries with only around 130 years of habitat in the US" makes little sense
And ultimately this says almost nothing of encyclopedic significance.
I suggest deleting the paragraph, unless someone who knows more about this can turn it into something rather different. - Jmabel | Talk 23:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Murky, uncited paragraph in article 

message: From the article: "…the tens of millions of pounds raised by Band Aid and Live Aid are widely believed to have saved the lives of…" 
"…are widely believed…" is a pretty far short of a citation. - Jmabel | Talk 23:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Widely believed" 

message: The 2008 food shortage is now widespread and we still dont have a wiki article.
manchurian candidate 04:09, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See 2007-2008 world food price crisis. - BanyanTree 05:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  need a seperate article on world food crises 2008 

message: This article claims 30,000 died, but the Hongerwinter article itself gives the (referenced) figure of 18,000.  Big discrepancy - which is correct? Draggleduck (talk) 12:38, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hongerwinter 

message: If anyone is interested in contributing to the discussions on a new category relating to Famines:
*Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_September_21#Category:Famines_in_British_Empire Zuggernaut (talk) 14:45, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed deletion of newly created famine category 

message: Yeah, I know, it's about the contents of the article, but -- £20,000 ?? Is that all the money they were able to collect for the latest Nigerian famine, with millions of people affected? A decent middle manager of a Western country earns more than that IN A MONTH. 152.66.235.13 (talk) 16:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  £20,000 

message: I've restored the position of a few days ago.  As I said in the edit summary this is an article about Famine, not about Gandhi.   The same change was made (and reversed) on the Indian Famine article.   That said I think the article would be better with some more pictures and only one in the lede.  Ideas? --Snowded TALK  07:20, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Just one in the lead is a good idea. Other major sections should have their respective pictures. Zuggernaut (talk) 00:11, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos 

message: I've created a new infobox template that can potentially be used in every famine article on Wikipedia. For a list of articles where it can be used, see the categories  famines in India, famines and other relevant categories. The usage documentation still needs some improvement and the template might undergo minor teaks further - all feedback/suggestions for improvement are welcome! Feel free to link to or re-post this message in relevant places. Zuggernaut (talk) 17:20, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  New infobox template for famines 

message: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/09/us-asia-rice-idUSTRE7186NU20110209
Should we add this in yet or let it simmer a few more months? Hcobb (talk) 22:03, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That article seems to have little to do with famine, and certainly not a "worldwide famine." Global price increases, and governments stocking up on rice do not seem all that abnormal, nor a definite precursor to famine. Please see, WP:CRYSTAL. Peregrine981 (talk) 22:49, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worldwide famine of 2011 

message: There's a major difference in people's minds between "famine" and "food shortages."  Famine has usually been associated with wars and natural disasters where there is a "major" inability to feed people for basic survival, and mass starvation is the result.  
But "Food shortages" are different in that the term can relate to a family, village, city, or an entire country. Food price rises cause shortages first among those with less income.  "Food shortages" also imply a problem that has possible solutions, like better irrigation. But to use the term "famine" as a redirect from "food shortages," as it does now, is a bad idea, IMO. They are two separate topics, even if related, and "food shortages" would be a better title for this article. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 03:42, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. There is a major difference, and if food shortages is redirecting here, we should separate. Peregrine981 (talk) 10:48, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename suggestion 

message: I question this sentence
The famine relief model increasingly used by aid groups calls for giving cash or cash vouchers to the hungry to pay local farmers instead of buying food from donor countries, often required by law, as it wastes money on transport costs.[3][4]
One of the citations makes only passing reference to cash grants in an article that focuses on general funding for famine relief, the other describes a pilot program.  There's no evidence that this model is increasingly used by aid groups.  I'm not saying there shouldn't be reference to this model, but that it is mischaracterized and given undue prominence -- in particular because other mechanisms of food distribution are not described.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iris8888 (talk • contribs) 03:33, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cash aid/vouchers -- not substantiated 

message: This is potentially more of an issue because people often are in a weakened state, often with less than fully sanitary conditions.  And plus, we have some pretty good sources on the subject.
-----------------------------------------------
THE TREATMENT OF DIARRHOEA, A manual for physicians and other senior health workers
World Health Organization, 2005
8. MANAGEMENT OF DIARRHOEA WITH SEVERE MALNUTRITION
[section on pages 22-24 (pages 26-28 in PDF)]
8.1 Assessment for dehydration
“ . . . A severely malnourished child with signs suggesting severe dehydration but without a history of watery diarrhoea should be treated for septic shock. . . ”
 
8.2 Management of dehydration
“ . . . IV infusion easily causes over-hydration and heart failure; it should be used only for the treatment of shock. . . ”
“ . . . Oral rehydration should be done slowly, giving 70-100 ml/kg over 12 hours. . . ”
These modified solutions provide less sodium (37.5 mmol/l), more potassium (40 mmol/l) and added sugar (25g/l), each of which is appropriate for severely malnourished children with diarrhoea."
8.3 Feeding “Mothers should remain with their children to breastfeed them and to help with other feeding, which should begin as soon as possible, usually within 2-3 hours of starting rehydration. Food should be given every 2-3 hours, day and night.”
8.3.1 Initial diet "The initial diet should be given from admission until the child's appetite returns to normal. Some children will eat normally at admission, but many will recover their appetite only after 3-4 days, when infections have been treated. The diet contains 75 Kcal/100 ml and is composed as follows:
•	skimmed milk powder 25 g
•	vegetable oil 20 g
•	sugar 60 g
•	rice powder (or other cereal powder) 60 g, and
•	water to make 1000 ml
Combine the ingredients and boil gently for five minutes to cook the cereal powder. . . ”
8.3.2 Subsequent diet  .  .  .  
8.3.3 Vitamins, minerals and salts “ . . . Zn acetate.2H20 130 mg . . . ” [That is, zinc, as well as other minerals and vitamins.] “ . . . Vitamin A should be given as described in section 9.3. Multivitamin mixtures that provide at least two RDAs of all vitamins . . . ”
8.4 Use of antimicrobials “All severely malnourished children should receive broad spectrum antimicrobial treatment, e.g. gentamicin and ampicillin, for several days when admitted to hospital. This combination or another that provides broad spectrum coverage should also be given to any child with signs of septic shock. Children should be checked daily for other infections and treated when these are identified.”
:Basically, I take as the most important thing, keep feeding the child or adult even with diarrhea.  As well as the oral rehydration solution, the zinc supplements, the antibiotics generally across the board, as well as specifically checking for shock.  Or, please, jump in, help me summarize this.  This chapter is about two pages, it's difficult, but it's more readable than I thought it would be.  Cool Nerd (talk) 19:12, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but there's a lot more to it than that.  There's all of the above.  Cool Nerd (talk) 18:56, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

text: I made some additions.  Please tell me what you think.  Or, time permitting, please jump in and help.  Summarizing the above sources is a lot of work, but it is doable.  Cool Nerd (talk) 21:12, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  sub-section on treating famine with dehydration (usu. diarrhea)? 

message: Our section Famine relief currently has this sentence:
"Additionally, supplements, such as Vitamin A capsules or Zinc tablets to cure diarrhea in children, are used."Can one pill tame the illness no one wants to talk about?, Newsweek, 2009-08-17.
:Yes, but there's a lot more to it than that.  There's all of the above.  Cool Nerd (talk) 18:56, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I made some additions.  Please tell me what you think.  Or, time permitting, please jump in and help.  Summarizing the above sources is a lot of work, but it is doable.  Cool Nerd (talk) 21:12, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: or, add to existing section?

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thread_title: File:Child affected by malnutrition.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: http://www.fews.net/ml/en/info/Pages/default.aspx?l=en
"The Famine Early Warning Systems Network (FEWS NET) is a USAID-funded activity that collaborates with international, regional and national partners to provide timely and rigorous early warning and vulnerability information on emerging and evolving food security issues. FEWS NET professionals in the Africa, Central America, Haiti, Afghanistan and the United States monitor and analyze relevant data and information in terms of its impacts on livelihoods and markets to identify potential threats to food security.  .  .  "
::In our Characteristics section, we do include a mention:  "In July 2005, the Famine Early Warning Systems Network labelled Niger with emergency status, as well as Chad, Ethiopia, South Sudan, Somalia and Zimbabwe."
::I think it probably would be worthwhile including a couple of sentences about the organization, perhaps elsewhere in our article.  Cool Nerd (talk) 17:22, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  probably worth including Famine Early Warning Systems Network (FEWS NET) 

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thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I was reading through this today and found it's quite long, was wondering if there would be any community support for the idea of putting the detailed regional history into article called "History of Famines" or such?  I don't find the detailed listing in this article adding that much value over the "List of Famines" article.  Would love to hear community opinion before taking any action.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zzeenn (talk • contribs) 12:30, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Getting quite long... 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: User:Kind_Tennis_Fan If it's not encyclopedic, reword it, but don't just delete it. Benjamin (talk) 02:09, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I have restored the sourced sentence that you placed into the article. I'm working at the moment on improving the article and indeed including some of the content by an IP editor that was (temporarily) removed until it can be reworded. Kind Tennis Fan (talk) 02:13, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Encyclopedic 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Famine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120823070354/http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrecord.php?requester=gs&collection=ENV&recid=9110094&q=Famine+in+Africa&uid=791203203&setcookie=yes to http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrecord.php?requester=gs&collection=ENV&recid=9110094&q=Famine+in+Africa&uid=791203203&setcookie=yes
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080817165709/http://www.asil.org/ajil/marcus.pdf to http://www.asil.org/ajil/marcus.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Quote from the 17th century section:
"Perhaps the worst famine since 1600, the great famine in Finland in 1696, killed one-third of the population.[82]"
"The Great Famine of 1695–1697 may have killed a third of the Finnish population."
"May" or "did" kill a third of the population? 90.229.193.208 (talk) 10:58, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finnish famine of 1696, deaths 

message: English 2409:4043:898:B9BF:A1AF:95C3:9148:BAF2 (talk) 06:15, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  EVS 

message: Hi 117.195.51.235 (talk) 13:29, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hi 

message: Zaid 103.97.98.243 (talk) 11:06, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Science 

message: Famine information 1.38.158.57 (talk) 17:01, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Science 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:22, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: :Just wanted to point out that the chapter title of (State-sponsored Famine) may be misleading. In ordinary English, it's just odd and it makes it sound like states are deliberately planning and aiming for reaching famine. Despite none of them actually aim for that. It should be reworded as maybe (famine caused by state interventions).49.180.207.52 (talk) 02:50, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Also countries like north Korea are very poor also because of UN Sanctions that makes it harder for them to economically thrive. It didn't work in getting rid of nukes nor really impact their leader considering how well fed that fellow is. But has caused a lot of famine. In fact, US Sanctions would actually fit into the  definition of state Sanctioned famine as it's designed to starve the general population enough to hopefully trigger regime change. And I don't think such information is being included, and should be added in.49.180.207.52 (talk) 02:50, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  State-sponsored Famine