Talk:Ma (negative space)

message: User 0bvious: I contest the speedy deletion of this page. I believe the concept of 'Ma' is worthy of its own page. Its use in art is widely recognised. The term is one for which there is no English equivalent, true, but neither is there an equivalent for the Japanese word 'Mu', which similarly can be found in various uses. Mu in fact has a very detailed English language Wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_%28negative%29 ). It was for this reason that I decided to start the Ma page. I intend to research and add to the page. I have started a conversation elsewhere ( http://ask.metafilter.com/79537/Defining-the-Japanese-Concept-of-Ma ) and will continue reading up on Ma until I feel I can create a more detailed article.
Thanks
::If you are right, you will be able to find some good citations for its use in English (I hope you do) but as it currently reads it is just a japanese word and we can hardly have articles on all words in all languages ... good luck in your search; I will have a look too. It might be a good idea to get a name and sign your comments with 4 tildes Abtract (talk) 19:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes please. Abtract (talk) 09:40, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

text: *The discussion is here.  --UsaSatsui (talk) 17:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks ... you are a gent. Abtract (talk) 18:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Article has been added to extensively. Please see here for further elaboration on my claim for NON-deletion of this article. Thanks, 0bvious (talk) 16:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Also please see article negative space for why this article is now redundant. Abtract (talk) 16:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is not redundant, because "ma" is not the same as negative space.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.3.66.127 (talk) 02:51, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Speedy deletion (old)

message: I've also seen "Yohaku" mentioned in connection with the same concept:  . Could somebody clarify what the difference is between the two? Bonomont (talk) 09:44, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yohaku 

message: I've removced the Daodejing pastiche, pure invention. This is how the text runs in a competent translation (Chad Hansen's Tao Te Ching, Duncan Baird Publications 2009 p.59) with the Chinese text. It is false to assert that 'Examples of the character   appear in this chapter (11) of the Tao Te Ching'. I.e.
Thirty spokes join one hub (三十輻，共一轂)
though the cart's use lies where they are absent.(當其無，有車之用)
Throwing clay to make a vessel; (埏埴以為器)</br>
the vessel's use lies where the clay is absent; (當其無，有器之用)
Sculpting windows and doors to make a room; (鑿戶牖以為室)
The room's use lies where they are absent.當其無，有室之用 > 
As anyone can see at a glance, the character 間 jiān/which is read ma in Japanese does not occur in this passage, but ma is read into the Chinese character 無 (wú), here meaning absence, but in the website version translated as 'space', (ergo 'ma'). Most of the citations here come from unreliable websites pushing the 'ma' fantasy. The page as written is not worth a nob of goat's shit.Nishidani (talk) 14:43, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can find better sources, please do. I've noticed a lot of these articles - including ones like wabi-sabi - tend towards those sorts of sources. In the meantime, I'll be fixing up the lang tags, as I should've used transl tags in the first place.--Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) 11:17, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research based on a non-rs source's clunky translation