Talk:Clear-channel station

message: I added flag icons to the table of stations to show which are American, Canadian, etc. A user keeps reverting them as unnecessary. I disagree. I will revert it once again to include the flag icons, please discuss here if you agree or not. Please do not remove again until a consensus is achieved.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by N9jig (talk • contribs) 19:10, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Nation Icons

message: This article gets a bunch of things wrong.  For starters, a "clear channel" is by definition a station which does not share its channel with any other.  The old I-Bs were never "clear channel" stations, nor were the I-Ns, and this status was completely eliminated by the "Rio accord".  The long list of stations ought to be labeled something like "List of stations in North America which are called out as being of class A under the ITU Region II Mediumwave Coordination Agreement of 1981" or some such.
There are important differences between class A stations and class B stations, even though the clear channels as such no longer exist.  Specifically:
* Class A stations must operate with at least 10 kW, and are restricted to specific locations and frequencies set out under Rio and previous international agreements.  CBE and CBN are the last 10-kW class-A's.
* Class A stations, unlike all others, have a protected nighttime skywave ("secondary") service area.
* Class A stations, unlike all others, are entitled to protection from daytime skywave interference to their groundwave ("primary") service area (mostly a factor on the high end of the band, 1500 to 1560 kHz).
* Class A stations must meet a higher minimum antenna-system efficiency than class B stations.
* Once a station has lost class A status, it can never regain it.  By contrast, a class B station may relinquish nighttime authority (thereby becoming a class D) and then later be returned to class B upon grant of an application to resume night operation.  This has happened, in the case of WOWO, which was demoted from A to B in order that WLIB might be promoted from D to B.  (With WOWO protected as an A, WLIB could not operate at night; as a B, WOWO no longer has a protected secondary service area, so WLIB need only protect WOWO's groundwave.)
* Class A stations have generally not been subject to the "ratcheting" rules which require modifications to AM station facilities to reduce interference by at least 10%.
Class A includes all of the stations formerly designated as class I-A, I-B, or I-N.  Class B includes the former classes II (secondary assignments on I-B channels) and III (regional channels, limited to 5 kW nominal power), except II-D and III-D which became class D.  Class C is the former class IV (graveyard channels).
The breakdown of the clear channels began in the 1960s, when the FCC began assigning class II-B stations in the West on Eastern class I-A channels; in one case (KOB Albuquerque versus WABC on 770) the matter went all the way to the Supreme Court (and was decided in the FCC's and KOB's favor).  In a last-gasp attempt to preserve their relevance, several of the I-A stations asked the FCC to increase the power limit from 50 kW to 750 kW.  This was eventually turned down when even many of the I-A stations came out against it.
Protection of foreign class-A stations is still much stronger than protection of domestic class-A stations, in all three countries.  This is an artifact of the requirement in NARBA that all stations on another country's I-A channel protect the entire border of the assigned country.
Oh, and nearly all of the callsigns in that big long list are wrong as well.  Tain't no such thing as "-AM".
:18.26.0.18 05:45, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Old errors

message: Excuse me, I once edited this page, edit was removed, but as far as I know, KTWO Casper, is class A, and both WBZ Boston, and KTWO must use directional antennas at night to keep down co-interference. KTWO is also one of only 10 Primary Emergency Alert System AM Stations in the USA (Source: FEMA Manual 1550.2 Page D-3 (http://www.vdem.state.va.us/library/handbooks/nawasmanual2001.pdf)). I seriously doubt this responsibility would be given to less than a true clear channel station with wide service area. Also please note WBZ Boston, a clear channel on the same frequency, is on that list. Please check your sources, and I re-submit KTWO for inclusion in the list.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.145.40.116 (talk) 06:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are incorrect.  KTWO is a class B station, and has been since the system of lettered classes was introduced.  Prior to that, it was a class II-A station.  (There are 36 Primary Entry Point stations in the Emergency Alert System according to references more recent than your 2001 FEMA document, but the class of station is not relevant to this status.  It's hard to find a list of which stations are currently participating as PEPs or NPs, although I have seen the equipment at most of them.)  121a0012 (talk) 06:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, it is known far and wide as one of the stations that contributed to the breakdown of the clear channels (although of course KFMB and KKOB take pride of place).  The history in the article goes into this in some detail.  Only stations of the former classes I (I-A, I-B, and I-N) were ever considered to be "clear channel stations".  Now, it is true that a number of stations with secondary assignments on the clear channels called themselves "clear channel" -- but of course it was someone else's clear channel they were assigned to (most were daytimers).  Since "clear channel" was a distinction made by the FCC for regulatory purposes, we follow their usage.  (I live in a market where there are four 50 kW-U stations, all DA-2, which don't even cover the entire market never mind a significant region of the country as the II-As were intended to.)  It may be worth having a list of the II-A stations since they were the result of the "breakdown" which is an important topic treated in this article.  121a0012 01:21, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  KTWO 1.030 MHz in Casper, WY is not class A? 

message: Is KSTP actually a clear channel station? The KSTP (AM) page gives conflicting information; There was also another comment on Talk:KSTP (AM) about it, too. The FCC query page indicates that while it maintains 50kW at night, it uses a directional antenna (but it's not directional during the day.) Does it therefore still count as a clear channel station, as long as it maintains 50kW? Mystic Pixel (talk) 07:10, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Operating with 50 kW is neither necessary nor sufficient.  This article treats as "clear channel stations" all stations in the United States, Canada, Mexico, and the Bahamas which are considered to be "class A" under the Region 2 Mediumwave Agreement ("Rio").  In the U.S., such stations must operate with at least 10 kW full-time (thus the significance of WOWO being downgraded to 9.8 kW nights) () and must have a minimum antenna-system efficiency of 282 mV/m/kW at 1 km ().  See also the list at fcc.gov/mb/audio/amclasses.html, which identifies stations having specific class and frequency assignments by international agreement or FCC rule; KSTP is on that list, as a class-A station.  (So is KNZR in Bakersfield, which operates with 25 kW-D, 10 kW-N, DA-N.)  121a0012 (talk) 01:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahh, ok - I didn't think 50kW was the critical condition, but I was wondering about the directional thing. Thanks for the links and info. Mystic Pixel (talk) 22:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  KSTP clear-channel status 

message: I was looking on the revision history for this article, and there seems to be a dispute over CFRN's class A status.  User "121a0012" undid the revision stating that this station is not a Clear Channel station.  Well, according to a REC Broadcast Query of CFRN, http://cdbs.recnet.net:8080/fmq.php?canam=CFRN  it is classified as a 50KW Class A station.  I don't seem to be connecting the dots here.  Are Canadian clear-channel stations classified differently?  I thought Class A meant Clear-Channel status? 
Joski1624 (talk) 05:46, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  CFRN (AM) 

message: The lead section seems to talk around the subject, listing truisms etc, without ever getting to the meat, the concept, the why and the how. It also makes assumptions that the average guy does not have.  ...for example it says: "A clear-channel station is an AM band radio station in North America that has the highest protection from interference...."  Protection?? ...like lead shielding or a giant condom?  Or could it mean government protection, and (wild-assed-guess) that a clear channel station is actually first a legal term within a government regulation while a brick and mortar clear channel station is a station that abides by those rules and designations to receive special regulatory entitlements and government protection?? ...not that anything like that is suggested in the Lead....nor contrary to that....
consider: First sentence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MOSINTRO#First_sentence  
"The article should begin with a declarative sentence telling the nonspecialist reader what (or who) is the subject.
"...If its subject is amenable to definition, then the first sentence should give a concise definition: where possible, one that puts the article in context for the nonspecialist. Similarly, if the title is a specialised term, provide the context as early as possible"....etc 
Also: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lead section) Quotes:  "The lead serves both as an introduction to the article and as a summary of its most important aspects. The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the subject is interesting or notable, and summarize the most important points—including any prominent controversies. ...and the notability of the article's subject should usually be established in the first few sentences."
And why do they exist?  What is their alleged purpose, now and historically? 
After the lead: And since the once-public airwaves (owned by the people for the common good) have been largely privatized (owned largely by quasi-monopolistic (anti-Market) corporations for private profits) by Reagan and Clinton, are the government subsidies (like entitlement, protection via treaty etc) still "paid for" with costly obligations and responsibilities to the common good? Or are they like so much today, government subsidy free-lunch give-aways of another We-the-People's Natural Monopoly, —welfare for the rich, to keep the Big Boys on top and everybody else as also-rans?? Is all this controversy really so unworthy as as to deserve zero mention?  --68.127.87.79 (talk) 04:05, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In a word, yes.  At least so far as I can understand your rant above. If you'd care to come back with some reliable third-party sources, perhaps we can have a proper discussion, rather than a political diatribe.  121a0012 (talk) 05:42, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Lead Section 

message: Every mention of "cycles" (with or without prefixes) should be changed to "Hertz", along with the attendant abbreviations.  Peppering Wikipedia articles with archaic scientific terms helps nobody. HuntClubJoe (talk) 20:59, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: So fix it then. Proper usage currently (no pun!) is kHz, MHz. Complaining isn't particularly productive either. :) -- dsprc [talk] 17:51, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cycles?