Talk:Lady Godiva

message: Edward Rutherfurd also wrote about her in one of his books. The problem is that I can't remember which one. I'd have to check. I'm fairly certain that it's Sarum, but just not 100%. In any case, her story is told and it uses her original name. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 19:05, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Another Literature Note

message: The article states: "Her mark, 'di Ego Godiva Comitissa diu istud desideravi', appears on a charter purportedly given by Thorold of Bucknall to the Benedictine monastery of Spalding. However, this charter is considered spurious by many historians.[8]"
It is apparent that mark = charter, but what is this, and what is the purpose and cultural significance.
Also, what does the latin actually translate to?
Pvtbuddie (talk) 06:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: More Info Needed

message: Lady Godiva is also the patron saint of engineers - does anyone know more about where this comes from and care to add it to the article? -lommer 23:58, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: She should be a saint.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:40, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps she escaped the notice of the Popes even in the early mediaeval period. No miracles were ascribed to her, the usual basis for canonisation.Cloptonson (talk) 18:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Patroness of Engineers

message: Godiva wasn't the only female landowner mentioned in the Domesday Book.
There are two Anglo Saxon woman mentioned together in Wiltshire.
Leofgyth, who was the widow of a citizen of London and later married Otto the goldsmith held Knook and another widow,Aelfhild, held Hartham.I'm sure there are others.
:Queen Edith, Einarr's stepmother, Countess Judith, Queen (Matilda?), Siward the Priest's wife, Wulfgeat's wife, Wulfgeat's wife's mother and Wulffaed - Wulfgeat's mother, for example. This is without looking for feminine names such as Gytha and Leodflæd, or leaving Lincolnshire. (RJP 10:10, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I too, have trouble with the dates. Chambers Biographical Dictionary gives her date of death as 1080. Hereward, who was not her youngest son, was born about 1035, which would make her about 55 at the time, if she was born in c.980. (RJP 10:10, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Godiva did not die in 1080, nor in 1067.  Her death date is not recorded.  As far as Domesday, I have rephrased the article.  Godiva is mentioned, *not living* in Domesday as someone who *had* held property here and there (without dates).  At the time of Domesday, that property was in the hands of other people, so we do not quite know when she gave it up or when they took it, so we cannot say when she died.  And she wasn't alive.  I believe the original editor meant something closer to "she held the land *through* the Conquest" in order words it wasn't seized in 1066.  That implies only that she lived then, not that she lived at Domesday, which she clearly didn't. Wjhonson 23:44, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Higham and Ryan say that the Domesday Book lists her as a landowner in 1086. FangoFuficius (talk) 10:42, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Domesday Book women 

message: Where is the historical importance of Lady Godiva? This should be a necessary part of the article. 12/21/05
Apart from her role as benefactress, wouldn't that be two fold?  1) In the family politics of Eleventh century England, although lacking the flamboyant dysfunction of the Godwines, her family played a crucial part in the events leading up to 1066.  Her Grandaughter is the last Queen of Anglo-Saxon England, though Harold is thought to have married her to keep her brothers on his side and their inactivity (Godiva's Grandsons) after Hastings probably contributed significantly to the Norman take over. 2) The earliest latin version of the story of her ride could be used as evidence for how quickly Anglo-Saxon assumptions about the legal and financial rights of women had not only disapeared from the writer's culture, but were unknown to him. (The story of the ride makes no sense in the light of what is known about Godgifu's historical legal situation.)Liam guilar 23:44, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical Importance 

message: I notice a number of recent edits to to the music section of this article.  Many of these are unclear, unspecific or sentence fragments.  I also wonder how noteworthy a number of them are.  An article probably shouldn't consist of a catalog of every time a mythological figure is mentioned.
Since a number of the citations appear to be very minor mentions of Godiva within a song, I would like to propose a removal of all songs other than ones which make major use of the Lady Godiva imagery.  At this time this Appears only to be the Velvet Underground and the Peter and Gordon songs.  (If any of the other songs are more significant, someone would have to elaborate to make their significance clear).
Thoughts?  ~CS 22:27, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's pretty difficult to discourage people from adding bits of trivia like this. I think that a bulleted list is an acceptable format; if it's unacceptably long it can be put into two columns or even broken out into a "List of musical references to ..." article. Think more in terms of channeling water, than damming it. ;-) --Dhartung | Talk 22:40, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, no, the real solution is to stop making songs about Lady Godiva :-)  Seriously, I'm with you on the rechanneling idea.  Maybe we can let it go for six more months or so to see how it develops, and just try to keep the punctuation in line.  Godiva's pretty popular, maybe we'll get enough material to branch out by then.  There's more than just music, too, and not yet any mention of a famous Dr. Seuss book.  --Co149 03:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...Except under "See also", where it might not belong. --Dhartung | Talk 04:00, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I put it there because I recalled it was more of an original story than a retelling of the (one) Lady Godiva tale.  I could be wrong.  Powers 11:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Music Section

message: What specifically does the École Polytechnique massacre have to do with the decline of "Godiva rides"?  If I understand correctly, the perpetrator simply went into a building and started shooting.  There is no indication (at least in the École Polytechnique massacre article) that this was during such a ride, that the EP ever held such rides, or that the resulting rise in Canadian feminism led to any specific action against such rides, either at the EP or elsewhere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.204.105.10 (talk • contribs) .
Essentially, the Godiva Ride is seen as anti-feminist, which in the wake of an anti-feminist killing spree, does not go over well. Engineering societies themselves therefore backed down on the tradition to avoid some bad publicity. 
I don't know much about this personally as I hadn't heard of a Godiva ride before coming to this page (despite studying engineering), but maybe that just goes to show how much it's declined?
65.95.10.216 (talk) 01:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "Godiva ride"

message: I actually thought of putting this picture in there, as an example of a "Godiva ride", but it appears someone else beat me to the point with a painting of Godiva herself. —  Rickyrab | Talk 00:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where's Peeping Tom? Colin4C (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Holding the camera? :P  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.27.152 (talk) 11:12, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Giddyap! 

message: Does anyone know the name of Lady Godiva's horse? This question appears in a crossword puzzle and we have not found the answer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.251.36.2 (talk) 21:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aethenoth ClemMcGann 09:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lady Godiva's Horse 

message: What is the source for the exact death date in this article?  I'm tagging it, because I believe it's legendary or perhaps unsourced entirely. Wjhonson 17:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no one has entered a source, I have reverted her life-dates back to what the DNB shows which is "fl 1040-1080".  These aren't dates of birth and death, only a range in which she lived.  Doesn't imply exactly when she was born or died. Wjhonson 23:46, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text: That sounds reasonable, but what are their sources? MagnoliaSouth (talk) 19:10, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Since the only sources presented for her exact death, are a personal website by an amateur writer, and two books on folklore, I have again reverted her birth and death date information to what the DNB is showing.Wjhonson (talk) 02:25, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Anyone wishing to again state that she died exactly in 1067, or even with an exact date, should review again, what we do and don't know at this link where *all* the primary statements about her have been collected.Wjhonson (talk) 23:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Death

message: When did the legend arise with her in it?  The article now states that the famous ride was not documented in her time.  So when DID it arise?  My  WAG would be about the time of Mallory and other such revival/revisionists.  But that is blatant speculation.  --Wolfram.Tungsten (talk) 19:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rise of the Legend 

message: I have added the Oxford DNB, which is the bbest general source and some books. I have removed some non authoritative blogs and web sites. DGG (talk) 15:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: good sources

message: I advise adding such a section. I haven't done any exploration but I know by chance an example of a legend from the Balkans sharing some similar themes. The legend is about a peasant’s daughter who is very intelligent and beautiful and helps him pass a set of hard trials imposed to him by the landlord. In the last trial the landlord finds out that it his daughter who helped the peasant and asks from him as a last trial to send her to his palace while she will have to arrive nor riding neither walking and nor clothed neither naked. She arrives the next day, parading trough the town riding a goat and wearing only a fisherman’s net as clothes. Finally the landlord marries her.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.68.139.108 (talk) 09:40, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legends sharing related themes 

message: This is just a very minor detail, but as noted in your second citation "The Historical Godiva" by Octavia Randolph and in Sweet's Anglo-Sixon Primer (Ninth Edition), the word "god" in OE can mean either "god" or "good." "Godgifu" can mean either "god's gift" or "good gift."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.215.181.113 (talk) 04:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  OE Translation of "Godgifu" 

message: I thought it was a very interesting point that — if there's an historical basis to the legend — Godiva might have ridden in her shift as a penitent. That seems so plausible. The article goes on to say that, however, "naked" never means anything but stark naked. I wonder, though, how many of the sources are in Latin; the gullible and anecdotal Roger produced his work in Latin. In Latin "naked" is nudus (or in Godiva's case, nuda), which can mean "stripped" or "stripped down" as well as, well, buck-nekkid. Nudus in reference to a warrior can mean fighting without armor, and not necessarily balls-to-the-breezes. Nudus can also mean "unadorned," left plain, which may have contributed to the notion that she rode without jewelry, though that seems a little pointless, undramatic and lame. You'd have to compare Latin usage in various sources for the time period in which the Godiva sources were written, and that would require dauntingly specialized knowledge. It would be interesting, though, for someone with access to check the OED on the historical usage of "naked," to see whether it's true that during the time of the earliest English sources "naked" can only mean completely in the buff. Cynwolfe (talk) 03:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wearing a shift wouldn't be memorable. But since you ask, the OED says:  So there you go.--Jack Upland (talk) 05:26, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - you realize you are adding to a 15-yo thread? One rather wonders how the Victorian lexicographers could get that sort of detail from very old mentions! Johnbod (talk) 17:15, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I think if a thread is here there's nothing wrong with replying to it. OED isn't Victorian. It was published in 1989.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:56, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You think? Read OED - most of it is unchanged since the original edition.  "N" was in fact published in 1908, but the research had been going on since the 1860s. Johnbod (talk) 04:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The entry that I copied from was actually the online version. It is updated from the 1989 version. I don't know what the original version was like, but the entry has obviously revised, for what it's worth.--Jack Upland (talk) 02:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Why "obviously"? Usually when they say some meaning is "obselete", they mean it stopped being used in 1700 or so. Now you've made me look it up, & in 1908 it was: "Unclothed, having no clothing on the body, stripped to the skin, nude. Also occas †having only an under-garment on." Johnbod (talk) 03:12, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it doesn't matter anyway. There is no source as far as I know that says Godiva was wearing a shift.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:31, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Degree of nakedness 

message: Is it worth mentioning their logo? It's a silhouette of the faces of a female and a horse, appearing not only on official documents and their website but also all the 'gateway' road signs - presumably intended to be representative of Lady Godiva...
Mittfh (talk) 11:34, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coventry City Council 

message: "The name "Peeping Tom" for a voyeur originates from later versions of this legend in which a man named Tom had watched her ride and was struck blind or dead."
This strikes me as unlikely. "Tom" is one of several names used in English to denote everyman, any man, and often a common, lower-class, or working man. Compare "every/any Tom, Dick, and/or Harry", "every man Jack" and so on. In this case, I think we can safely conjecture that the legend was backformed from a stock phrase describing a voyeur. That the name Tom became attached to this activity might have been influenced by the sexual connotations from the use of tom to denote a male cat. (Compare our current use of "tomcatting" to describe the behavior of men on the sexual prowl.) The addition to the legend seems likelier to have arisen from the phrase than the other way around.
Someone who can address this question with more authority might want to qualify the present assertion.
Michael (talk) 21:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: For many years I have understood Peeping Tom to have been (a) a nameless male as you say and (b) a punishment by the Church. The article says he was struck blind as if it were fact not myth yet does not say how. My understanding is that the ride goes much much further back into legend and myth and like the myths of Arthur and Merlin the most recent accounts are just that - the most recent. The ride was that of the May Queen on Mayday and could have happened in many places but in Coventry the church took a dim view and forbade anyone to look. "Tom" was caught and blinded as an example, or else it never happened and was just a threat. I am very skeptical about this being anything to do with local taxes as the article claims and I can't find any evidence this was so.
Robotics1 (talk) 13:00, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name "Peeping Tom" for a voyeur originates from later versions of this legend[?] 

message: Not sure how much of this, if any, is appropriate for an encyclopedia article. --Malleus Fatuorum 03:30, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I, however, disagree. I feel it's better on the talk page. It totally overwhelms the actual facts about Godiva and little of it contributes to any understanding of Godiva. If you want, you could always create a Lady Godiva in Popular Culture article, as there are so many mentions. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved trivia to here for now 

message: This is a trivial mention of Godiva, if we listed every time something mentioned Godiva, it'd overwhelm the article with mentions. See WP:TRIVA and WP:POPCULTURE Ealdgyth - Talk 16:51, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: And what information does that add to our understanding of Lady Godiva? None. That's why it's not appropriate for this article, which is about Lady Godiva, not an episode of some TV serial. --Malleus Fatuorum 14:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

text: What do her depictions in fiction tell us about Lady Godiva? The correct place for this material is the Lady Godiva in popular culture article. --Malleus Fatuorum 15:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charmed TV show episode... 

message: I visited Coventry today (October 1 2011) and saw information there on Lady Godiva said something about what "Naked" really meant. It said that it probably did not mean that she had literally no clothes on. Perhaps the disputes about what "naked" means in Lady Godiva's case could go in  the article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:34, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There is some details in the "Legend" section on the different theories. If you have more sources to back up these or another one then by all means add to the section. Keith D (talk) 23:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: What did "Naked" mean?

message: Even though the Saxons didn't follow Salic law that doesn't mean they were wide open to women disobeying their husbands.  Like the rest of Christendom, a man got to tell his wife what to do.  So the idea that a Countess in her own right could disobey her husband's edicts is quite faulty and should be omitted from this article.
Godiva was the wife of Leofric, Earl of Mercia. He would have set taxes in Coventry and elsewhere, not her  Salic law is irrelevant. Godiva had not inherited power, she married the Earl.Royalcourtier (talk) 07:03, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Salic law is not the only reason a husband ends up dominating a highborn wife 

message: I know of NO mainstream reputable historian that treats this as any more than legend based on very scrappy evidence.  I would like to see the names of 'scholars' that put forth she actually rode around nude on a horse, let alone actually existed.HammerFilmFan (talk) 23:07, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Bullshit. The article clearly distinguishes between the undoubted historical figure - name one historian who DOESN'T believe she existed - and what is clearly said to be the legend. Johnbod (talk) 01:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  several citation tags long not answered - also, this article goes to far treating this as fact rather than legend 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
* Oppose per WP:COMMONAME. Most reliable English language sources seem to refer to her as "Lady Godiva". This is basically also listed as one of the exceptions of WP:HONORIFIC: "when a honorific is so commonly attached to a name that the name is rarely found in English reliable sources without it, it should be included." Under Wikipedia's policies on article titles, I fail to understand the rationales to move the page on grounds that we should treat the article primarily has a historical figure (when most reliable sources seem to primarily talk about the legend first, and the real person as secondary); and on grounds to prevent possible confusion between the legend and the actual person. IMO, that seems to be more based on editors' opinion or original research than what the reliable sources say. The story and legend of Lady Godiva has evolved through the centuries quite differently than Roderic (who appears to not have a honorific in his most common name), and the current practices of the latter's article do not necessarily apply to the former's page (see also Wikipedia:Other stuff exists).Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:42, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *"Godiva" on its own is enough to identify the figure of legend in most cases. "Lady Godiva", while common, is not necessary even to identify the legendy. So why treat her differently than all other Anglo-Saxon ladies? The article as it stands has almost as much history as legend. The ODNB titles its article "Godgifu". Srnec (talk) 03:50, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

text: *Godiva/Godeva is a contemporary Latinisation, I believe. The ODNB titles its article "Godgifu". Srnec (talk) 03:50, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Godiva and Leofric are often reported to have been the parents of Hereward the Wake, the Saxon who led a long and celebrated rearguard fight/rebellion against William the Conqueror. It may not be historically true, but it is part of the legend of both Godiva and Hereward and so is worth recording. Cassandra.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.107.7 (talk) 15:22, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Lady Godiva is mentioned with a speaking part, as an old woman, in Charles Kingsley's novel, Hereward the Wake. I recall reading that book but not thoroughly enough to see if it retrospectively mentioned her past ride ('past' at the time of the novel's post-1066 setting) in Coventry. However, Hereward's rebellion was surely later than the 1067 Leofric's widow is said to have died in?Cloptonson (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mother of Hereward the Wake? 

message: Twice in the section on Peeping Tom I see documented references to him being alternatively identified as someone named "Action" allegedly pronounced Actaeon.  I wonder if any published accounts have suggested links between the legends of Lady Godiva's ride and the death of Actaeon in Greek mythology? (The latter sometimes portraying Actaeon as seeing the goddess Artemis (the Roman Diana) in her al fresco bath and being punished by her by being turned into a stag and hunted to death by his own hounds.) Both have connotations with voyeurism and both feature a male supernaturally punished for looking upon a naked female.Cloptonson (talk) 21:13, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Peeping Tom and Actaeon - any published account linking their legends?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Godiva is described as "English" in the introduction. Perhaps it would be better to describe her as "Anglo-Saxon", to emphasise the point that she was a noblewoman from before the Norman Conquest. It is important to recognise that, when it is said that no contemporary records of the ride exist, shortly after the ride allegedly happened her country ceased to exist.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:00, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  1066 and all that 

message: The redirect Lady Godiva syndrome has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.   Jay 💬 14:32, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Lady Godiva syndrome]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]