Talk:CICS

message: Having read the description of CICS, I still have no idea what it is or what it does. Maybe the article could include more content about what it actually does.
*I've linked to transaction processing but that doesn't necessarily help. Above all CICS handles transactions: works with a database. I don't know how it is used today, but historically, a company would have one big computer and many terminals (simple, unintelligent, monitor + keyboard, linked directly to the computer).  CICS would be the engine that talked to the database and the terminals, providing such things as a customer database, or travel agent booking system. Because mainframe computers were not very powerful by today's standards, CICS had to be very efficient indeed to handle tens of thousands of terminals. At least, that's one use. Notinasnaid 10:50, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I work at Hursley, and I have no real idea what CICS does either. I'm told it's used by the cash machine ("ATM") network, and I suspect it may be involved in BACS too. Both things that you *really* don't want going wrong, ever. PeteVerdon 23:04, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here I am again after a few more months :-) . Like a number of large IBM products, it's hard for an outsider to get a handle on exactly what CICS *is*. But from listening to a few more people, I'm beginning to get a picture. Although in the beginning it started off as a more-or-less single-purpose application, and has since mostly been seen as "something to do with transactions", as far as I can tell CICS today is essentially what a Java developer would recognise as an app-server, but with a COBOL / PL/I / mainframe leaning (and around long before Java was). It provides all the facilities you might want if writing certain kinds of business applications, from the dreaded green-screen terminal driving via heavy-duty transaction support and, presumably, integration with DB2, to all the modern goodies like Java and Web Services. The Web Services support in particular is definitely not a minimally-implemented "tick-sheet" feature - it feels like full implementations of a lot of the standards are being released almost at the same time as the standards themselves. PeteVerdon 00:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've taught at Hursley but never run into CICS there. However I of course know what it is: it's a database system.
To be concise, CICS, is a thing running ontop of a thing.  It's a message processing program which accepts and transmits strings from a telecommunications or network gateway and sends strings to telecommunications or network gateway.  The strings may be green terminal character screens or webpages.  Because it includes functions to parse HTML and send HTML (or XML) text strings, CICS remains a viable product.
And, these "slick new development tools" in hands of rogue developer can still hamstring a project.  One reason the static variables crashed so many "critical" applications was the "seat-o-the-pants" approach toward development without quality assurance and software testing.  Developers could nod-and-wink that a product was tested because target dates set by business and marketing had to be met.  This article attempts to blame technology and tools for bad practice; webpages and kiosks still crash or fail to behave as expected because of memory leaks, sloppy testing and poor programming practices.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.151.243.146 (talk) 03:11, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

text: OK, I gave it a shot.  IBM calls it "middleware" so I included that, and moved some other text to the lead to try to say what it is.  Transaction itself is usually left undefined, or defined only by example; I included a paraphrase of the IBM definition cited.  This is an important article (IMHO) and deserves attention. Peter Flass (talk) 13:24, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: But what is it?

message: I added a "stub" section on New Programming Styles, thinking primarily of java and Web Services. Would someone who actually knows something about them - in relation to CICS - please add some stuff. Thanks. Martin Packer (talk) 13:54, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Programming Styles 

message: This article has been renamed from Customer Information Control System to CICS as the result of a move request.
 - move. 
This page has recently been moved from CICS to make way for an article about a radio station -- and a future radio station at that.  Not surprisingly, the new "CICS" dab page is only linked to by articles referring to the original article.
CICS the software is one of the more notable products in the history of computing, and should be left under this name.  The CICS-FM article already has an unambiguous name, and if it's felt necessary to do so, "CICS" can be disambiguated by a hatnote at the top of the software article.--NapoliRoma (talk) 17:28, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: Section titled Structure has a first reference to an acronym - MVS - that's not explained. It could just be me but the sentence does not read well and its meaning is unclear. The sentence in question is:
Alternatively, each CICS region may be started as a started task. Whether a batch job or a started task, CICS regions may run for days, weeks, or even months before shutting down for maintenance (MVS or CICS).
Gvimalku (talk) 12:50, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acronym not explained 

message: I have no clue how to pronounce CICS. I have been alternating between "six" and See-Aye-See-Ess. Is either correct? should this be added to the article? Farfromunique (talk) 20:58, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yet based on its spelling it would typically be pronounced in English as siks. I do not doubt that some people whose native language is English pronounce it as "kicks" but that pronunciation is probably more common among people whose native language is not English. Sam Tomato (talk) 03:43, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  The spelling "Kicks" has also been in continual use since about 1970 from when it was first released. 
It is important to point out that, for more than 20 years, many high profile Banks, Insurance companies (and the like) used CICS extensively without there being any provided memory protection whatsoever.
 
That is why "OLIVER" was created by myself to provide 100% memory protection (by hypervisor technique) and diagnose many, otherwise, hard-to-identify bugs completely automatically or else provided "pause" and step-by-step debugging with both instruction and HLL statement tracing.
 
The OLIVER product was used by more than 600 blue chip corporations across Europe (and elsewhere) and was eventually purchased by Compuware (as late as 1994) and then merged with their "Expediter-CICS" and "CICS Abend-aid" software offerings.
IBM later created a "Command-level only" CICS release that did not support all the many hundreds of thousands of macro level programs that existed throughout the world, forcing their own customers to re-write all their existing applications! That is why I created Command-CICS, which is still being sold by Advanced Software Products Group, Inc. of Naples, Florida, USA  [see http://aspg.com/enterprise-and-mainframe-software/mainframe-systems-management-utilities/commandcics/] Command-CICS automatically translated the old macro API calls directly into Command level requests - with no programming work whatsoever being required.
I have recently posted historic OLIVER (and SIMON the batch equivalent) documentation and promotional material on Google+ collections.
ken (talk) 12:31, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: For the first 15 years of its existence, IBMers (like the CICS architect Ben Riggins - my personal friend), and IBM's largest  customers (at GUIDE and SHARE) always called it by its initials C. I. C. S.
"Kicks" is a new name often used by CICS new customers.
Escientist (talk) 15:28, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yet based on its spelling it would typically be pronounced in English as siks. I do not doubt that some people whose native language is English pronounce it as "kicks" but that pronunciation is probably more common among people whose native language is not English. Sam Tomato (talk) 03:43, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  The spelling "Kicks" has also been in continual use since about 1970 from when it was first released. 
It is important to point out that, for more than 20 years, many high profile Banks, Insurance companies (and the like) used CICS extensively without there being any provided memory protection whatsoever.
 
That is why "OLIVER" was created by myself to provide 100% memory protection (by hypervisor technique) and diagnose many, otherwise, hard-to-identify bugs completely automatically or else provided "pause" and step-by-step debugging with both instruction and HLL statement tracing.
 
The OLIVER product was used by more than 600 blue chip corporations across Europe (and elsewhere) and was eventually purchased by Compuware (as late as 1994) and then merged with their "Expediter-CICS" and "CICS Abend-aid" software offerings.
IBM later created a "Command-level only" CICS release that did not support all the many hundreds of thousands of macro level programs that existed throughout the world, forcing their own customers to re-write all their existing applications! That is why I created Command-CICS, which is still being sold by Advanced Software Products Group, Inc. of Naples, Florida, USA  [see http://aspg.com/enterprise-and-mainframe-software/mainframe-systems-management-utilities/commandcics/] Command-CICS automatically translated the old macro API calls directly into Command level requests - with no programming work whatsoever being required.
I have recently posted historic OLIVER (and SIMON the batch equivalent) documentation and promotional material on Google+ collections.
ken (talk) 12:31, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  In the beginning 

message: I am Larry Hartweg - the former Amoco operating system analyst and later IBMer who rewrote the CICS Terminal Control Program and modified OS 360 to eliminate the IBM software bugs and add support for many non-IBM communication devices - recognized for helping CICS generate $60 billion in new revenue, and becoming IBM's most-successful mainframe software package of the day.
Escientist (talk) 15:28, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  CICS History Early Evolution 

message: Where is the discussion on Resource Definition Online (RDO)?  IIRC, before release 1.7, all resources were defined in assembled tables.  At 1.7, some were moved to being defined online (I don't remember which).  Today, almost every resource is defined online.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.78.141 (talk) 12:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is RDO? 

message: The following text from the article strikes me as absurd on its face:
"instead of the incompatible ASCII-based Intel chip"
MS-DOS is certainly ASCII based, but I am not aware of any 'ASCII' bias in the 808x series chips.  In fact, if I recall, they even had instructions capable of processing packed binary-coded decimal (COBOL's "COMP-3" data type).
66.219.183.57 (talk) 01:47, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It is absurd that there is any overlap of ASCII and Binary Coded Decimal (BCD) processor instructions or that they are the same data types in COBOL. Sam Tomato (talk) 03:50, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

text: Note that in the context of the statement about ASCII the writer assumes that EBCDIC is better. The truth is that EBCDIC is 8-bit and ASCII is 7-bit. EBCDIC is too limited and IBM had better things, like code pages, back then. IBM did develop an operating system, OS/2, that could be used as intelligent terminals. I think the part about EBCDIC and ASCII should either have a good reference or removed. Sam Tomato (talk) 04:02, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

text: AAA and I believe one other instr. Peter Flass (talk) 14:43, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trying to wrap my head around an apparent absurdity 

message: The references to "OLIVER", "Command CICS", "APT International", "SDEF" and "Delta" , along with "Example of SDEF Map Code" and "Example of Delta Map Code", do not refer to CICS directly, but to add-on components from ISVs - and not particularly well-known ones at that.
The history of the first three appears to politically contentious, and not NPOV.
On the other hand there are no references to some of the better-known CICS add-ons and monitors, both IBM and non-IBM. 
Just some examples:
Macro Level Interpreter from MacKinney, 
Abend-AID for CICS from Compuware,
Mainframe Integration Products from Hostbridge.
Ivory BMS/TS from GT Software,
CICS Performance Analyzer from Fundi and IBM,
Omegamon for CICS, 
Screen Definition Facility II (SDF II),
Debug Tool for CICS from IBM.
There's an extended list of over 80 tools at CICSworld.
I think it's time to split off a new page for these add-ons, and leave the current page for a discussion of "pure" CICS.
Should the new page be called "CICS Add-ons", "CICS Tools", or something else?
VanHacker (talk) 00:00, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree.  Probably not Tools, Add-ons or Extensions maybe. I was going to delete SDEF and Delta as not notable, but pending other action I'll leave them.  CICS is a whole ecosystem of third party products. Peter Flass (talk) 13:33, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{anchor|addons}} Should there be a separate page for CICS Tools or CICS Add-ons? 

message: "Web services and Enterprise Java Beans (EJBs), Event processing, Atom feeds, and RESTful interfaces."
This is a sentence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.59.200.193 (talk • contribs) 17:43, 18 November 2011‎ (UTC)
:Looks like this error was caused by some content removal by an anonymous editor—probably just someone messing around to see how Wikipedia works or something. I have reverted the change. —Caesura(t) 18:19, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar and Syntax 

message: About CICS running on selectric's, software (in general) being free and what not. Generally messed up and doesn't convey what CICS was/is like in comparison with other database schemes. 72.228.189.184 (talk) 00:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Laughable Stuff ... 

message: I attempted to impose some organization on this article.  Hopefully I didn't mess it up too badly.  This mostly involved moving some things around and adding a couple of sections, plus a few deletions.  One section had a lot of overlinking which I removed.  The new material I added was a skeleton of the structure of the CICS nucleus, which needs to be expanded to define the functions of each section of code.
The one thing I didn't understand is the "SDEF" and "Delta" formats of BMS map definitions.  Google didn't turn up anything useful.  If anyone has some sort of definition or explanation, it could be added to good effect. Peter Flass (talk) 01:55, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganization 

message: As the article said, CICS has it's highest profile among Fortune-500 organizations, but in my experience it is widely used even by small companies, etc. so I added a sentence to this effect.  I'd say that these days there are far fewer batch applications, and everything is interactive to a great extent. Peter Flass (talk) 13:29, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  WHO uses CICS 

message: As far as I can remember CICS used a single TCB until 3.2.1 around 1988/89. All the earlier releases ran under a single TCB and performance was nothing short of miraculous. Does anybody know for sure which CICS release was the first to use multiple TCBs? Off to look at the manuals...77.127.100.183 (talk) 12:08, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: At some point it used two TCBs, IIRC one for journaling.  I'm not sure if this was true from the beginning.Peter Flass (talk) 13:28, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

text: File Control has been on its own TCB for a long time now. Martin Packer (talk) 13:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Threading? 

message: *Here are some advertisement edits that need to be neutralized:
** provide industrial-strength, online transaction management and connectivity for mission-critical applications
**CICS Transaction Server 5.3, which generally became available on December 11, 2015, provides new and enhanced capabilities in three main areas; Service agility, Operational efficiency and Cloud with DevOps.
*This edit is full of marketingspeak. It changed vast amounts of the article, actually discarding several paragraphs, although they can be pulled from the history. Also, the contents may fall under Wikipedia:Recentism. I suggest to revert this change completely due to loss of information. --Mopskatze (talk) 04:37, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  A few years later I've just noticed the same rather conspicuous nonsense that turns out to be courtesy of that edit.  I feel I lack the authority to take a scourer to this topic but that sort of change is not really enhancing the article. --Vometia (talk) 18:37, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  delete advertisement