Talk:Samuel Jordan

message: Samuel Jordan, or Sylvester? Is this the same person recorded in Bermudian history as Sylvester Jordain?
Auth of below:
Aodhdubh 03:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: I would be interested in reading more on this topic. No sources are listed, though, for any of the information. Can anyone suggest any useful publications? Tim Ross 12:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources?

message: The article only talks of 3 sons.  Didn't he have 1 daughter Joan who came over on the Tyger with her children and husband Thomas Palmer.  
Thank You,
sammy1107@cox.net  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.195.48 (talk) 02:56, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samuel Jordan had a daughter named Joane Jordan 

message: No source was cited for the year of Samuel Jordan's birth or for his origins.  No source was cited for his having been previously married, or for his having children from any previous marriage.  No source was cited for his being the father of Thomas Jordan.  I have not been able to find any supporting evidence for any of these statements.  I have removed the unsupported statements. Applephile (talk) 17:08, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  I've removed some of the unsourced statements. 

message: My grandfather, Jack Meryl Jordan (b. 1911), retired Colonel(now deceased), spent the last 15 years of his life traveling the south and eastern US studying our Jordan family history, speaking with people, going to cemetaries and libraries.  He did his research the old fashioned way and his information is what I base my comments on.
This Wiki article on "Samuel Jordan" states "Samuel Jordan is not known to have had other children. Attempts have been made to find a relationship between Samuel Jordan and Thomas Jordan, who appears on the 1624/5 Muster, but no evidence of such a relationship has yet emerged."
This may be inaccurate per the following references.
“These Jordans Were Here” by Octavia Jordan Perry, Copyrighted, 1969, Library of Congress Card No A-85-366, references Samuel's three sons by a previous marriage on pages 27 and 28:
“After Samuel Jordan acquired the 450 acres of land in the territory of Great Wayonoke (Charles City County), he named his plantation Jordan’s Journey, and built a manor house on it which he spoke of as Beggar’s Bush.  Samuel Jordan was a family man with three known sons but no records about his wife, who she was or where she was.  The fact that this is not known is not unusual for in those days and times, records of a wife were considered of little concern, and anything about them was seldom recorded.  That he had three sons, though, is recorded; but nothing about them is known until his son Robert Jordan was killed on March 22, 1622 in the Indian massacre.  He was killed at Berkleys’ Hundred, some five miles up the river on the other side of Jordan’s Journey.  Robert had gone there by boat to warn the inhabitants on the plantation of the ensuing Indian massacre which Mr. Pace of “Paces Pains” had heard about through a converted Indian employee of his - - Chanco."
In that same work by Perry, Pg. 34-36, Chapter VI, the Sons of Samuel Jordan, Ancient Planter speaks to Thomas Jordan:  "Samuel’s son Thomas Jordan emigrated to Virginia on the Diana in 1623, perhaps just before the death of his father." And then “In the year 1624-25, he was listed as living in Pashebaighty (James Cittie)...”
My family's research shows that Thomas Jordan of Isle of Wight, Virginia (born 1600 in Wiltshire, England), was the product of Samuel Jordan's 1st marriage in 1596, to Frances (b. 1575). We show that there were four children in all by this first marriage, including also Anna Marie Jordan (b. 1596), Robert Jordan (b. 1598) and Samuel Jr. (b. 1602).  All of the children were born in England.
"Roots in Virginia" by Nathaniel Clairborne Hale, lists Samuel Jordan's three sons: Samuel, Thomas and Robert.
The Wiki article states that "there are today no known descendants of Samuel Jordan".  Given the above information, we believe this to be incorrect, per the line of Thomas Jordan.  There is a direct line from Samuel Jordan down through my father to myself:
Samuel Jordan (b. 1578)
Thomas Jordan Sr. (b. 1600)
Thomas Jordan (b. 1634)
Samuel Jordan (b. 1678)
William Jordan (b. 1704)
Edward Jordan Sr. (b. 1720)
Edward Jordan Jr. (b. 1745)
Baxter Jordan (b. 1782)
William Jordan (b. 1808)
John Edward (b. 1845)
Samuel Edward Jordan (b. 1873)
Cleo Adair Jordan (b. 1890)
Jack Meryl Jordan (b. 1911)
Joseph W. Jordan (b. 1947)
Deborah M. Jordan (b. 1968) and John B. Jordan (b. 1974)
Thank you for considering this information as part of your ongoing improvement to the "Samuel Jordan" Wiki article.  It is my hope that the sons of Samuel by his first wife will be listed as the descendents that they are.
Dmjordan (talk) 03:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evidence on Three Sons and Previous Wife 

message: Is it really helpful to litter the article with so many "citation needed" tags?  In many cases where the tag has been inserted, no citation is possible, because no evidence is available.  For example, in the final sentence which states that there are no known descendants of Samuel Jordan: how can there be a citation for absence of information?  Similarly, the statement "Samuel Jordan is not known to have other children" is tagged with a demand for a citation, but it is impossible to cite evidence for something which is not known.
In several other places, a citation is demanded unnecessarily.  For instance, in the paragraph which begins "In 1622, the local Indian tribes organized a surprise attack on the English colonists", that sentence is tagged as needing a citation, even though the following sentence references the Wikipedia article on the topic.  Not to mention the fact that demanding evidence for such a well-known historic event is like demanding proof that George Washington was the first president of the US.
I agree that assertions presented as fact should be substantiated with reference to evidence, and in some cases citations are indeed needed.  But footnotes should be used only when needed, as each superscripted number interrupts the reading of the article.  
In some of the cases, however, I agree that citations are needed. Applephile (talk) 19:05, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demand for citations 

message: I read here that there was some evidence that there are no living ancestors left of Samuel Jordan? Well, I am here. Through Jane (Jeane Jordan), Thomas Jordan's (B 1660) daughter with Elizabeth Burgh.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.79.192.177 (talk) 17:35, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  No known ancestors alive of Samuel Jordan 

message: This article has been heavily edited and reworked using as many close to primary sources as I could find. The primary goal of this edit was to organize the existing sourced information to establish Samuel's notability in early Jamestown history.  These seem to be his roles as legislator and as founder of Jordan's Journey, which provided a stronghold that allowed the colony to survive during the Second Anglo-Powhatan war. The value of Jordan's Journey can be seen in the legal suit that ensued after Jordan died.
The weakest part of this article remains Jordan's life in England.  Before editing, his section had no accessible, reputable sources to back up its claims.  The four existing links were to genealogical sites. Two of the links were broken, and their comments couldn't be found by search. Another ion is about Thomas's relation to Samuel, but acknowledged that it was just speculation as there is no source to verify.  I kept a sourced version of this speculation. The last link directly quoted Winslow's 1931 book. The intent of this link was kept by citing Winslow's assertions directly, and tying it to a link to the relevant page in her book. [I have also added another reference previously mentioned in this discussion N. C. Hale]. Unfortunately, the assertions of both authors are also conjectural as they do not cite any sources reliably connecting the Jordans to Samuel.  The rest of the information about his life in England was unsourced, so it was deleted.  If reliably sourced information about Jordan's life in England could be found, that would be great.  Knowing about these early settler's life before they came to England would add a great deal of historical insight.
On another note, though the relationship between Thomas and Samuel still seems inconclusive, it doesn't impact the larger impact of the Jordan family's role in US history (though it may concern those worried about genealogy). Thomas, who arrives in Virginia at age 18, nine years after Samuel, appears to have created his own independent reputation as an early settler during the Jamestown era, and he seems to have solidly established his own legacy quite well. 
I've added an infobox on Samuel Jordan as well.  The birth year range remains conjectural, it is based on physical evidence from archaeological data that is cited in the article.Wtfiv (talk) 20:32, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Samuel Jordan in England

message: Deleted section of ancestors of note for Samuel Jordan.  There is no evidence that he had any children in the New World except Mary and Margaret, whose fates are not known. Most Virginia Jordan ancestors are descended from Thomas Jordan.  As mentioned in the article, some sources have suggested he may have been a child of Samuel Jordan's who arrived in the New World later, but there is no documented WP:RS evidence for this, and the professional geneologists are cautious on this point. Wtfiv (talk) 16:51, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Ancestors of Note

message: Hi , an alternative spelling of Jordan's first name was added to the article based on this National Park Service Link. Orthography at the time was not yet regular, so variant spellings probably existed, even in the spelling of last names. But this site does not support it.  Although it spells Jordan's first name "Samual", none of the sources that it gives at the bottom of the page– Andrews (misspelled on the webpage as Andrew), Bruce, Hatch, Kammen, Padover , or "The Three Charters"– support this spelling.  Only one, Hatch, mentions Samuel Jordan; it is as the representative for Charles Citty, but Hatch spells it with an 'e'.  Kingsbury, which is the reliable source that is already sited for Jordan's serving as a representative also spells his name with an "e".  The spelling used on the National Park Service site may be based on an uncited original document or just a website misspelling like "Andrew" for "Andrews". Wtfiv (talk) 00:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I think my edit should have been reverted. I'm guessing there is already a Wikipedia guideline (made by experts) about handling the colorful spellings and grammar of this era in England (but not sure where to look). Perhaps a simple #redirect page might help someone doing research directly from documents of the era. StevePrutz (talk) 17:07, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: The Spellings of Samuel Jordan