Talk:Brendan Nelson

message: I removed "arrogant and pompous" because the statement had no source.  If someone can find a political observer saying on the record, "Nelson is too arrogant and pompous to become the Prime Minister", then by all means, add it to the article.  Otherwise, it's just weasel words.
Also, being pompous and arrogant has never stopped anyone from becoming an Australian Prime Minister. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 09:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, forcing -> allowing was oh-too-predictable for a libertarian ;) Kewpid 16:21, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Arrogant and pompous" removed for want of a source 

message: This sentence is unsourced and absurd, and should be deleted: 
:He has been criticized for his continued use of the title "Dr.", despite the fact that he is not a practicing physician (and has not been one for many years). However the custom in Australia is a lifelong attribution of this honorific title, in the same manner that those who hold a Ph.D. maintain the honorific throughout their lives.
He is a licensed medical practitioner and perfectly entitled to be styled "Dr," regardless of whether he is currently practising. The analogy with PhDs is false (and in any case in Australia PhDs are always styled "Dr"). I have never seen this criticism made by anyone. Adam 02:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with your points 2 and 3.  But just for the record, the vast majority of general practitioners in Australia, known as "Dr. Smith", do not have university doctorates but merely MB, BS.  And paradoxically, those who do have doctorates tend to become specialists, and most specialists are known as "Mr".  See physician for further info.  --  JackofOz (talk) 09:34, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the response, JackofOz, very helpful.  This still doesn't address the inconsistency of putting "Dr" in everywhere - given that John Howard, Kevin Rudd, Alexander Downer, Malcolm Turnbull, Wayne Swan and Peter Costello's entries don't have "Mr" everywhere, surely the insistence that Nelson's entry includes "Dr" everywhere is neither necessary, nor consistent with other politicians' entries.  Can someone just remove it on these grounds?  It seems awfully pompous to insist on its inclusion.192.30.92.238 (talk) 02:44, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to chip in about what doctors are called in Australia, I believe that physicians, while not being "doctors" in the sense of holding said degree, are generally referred to with the honorific title Dr in a medical context.  But you wouldn't call them Dr anything at the local shops or anything.  PhD holders, on the other hand, are quite entitled to be referred to as Dr whenever they want.  Whatever entitled means.  Except for honorary doctorates.   That's a different kettle of fish...  59.167.59.226 (talk) 13:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a side view on this from a wide reading of academic and other sources - we have many politicians who started off as medical practitioners who continue to use the honorific "Dr" well after their entrance to politics. Dr Kim Hames, the deputy premier of WA, and Dr Rex Turnbull, a controversial figure in Tasmanian politics and later a Senate independent, are two examples which spring to mind. Orderinchaos 22:50, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Dr Nelson

message: Would the article benefit from a sentence about his support for Intelligent Design?PiCo 02:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If a reliable source is cited, and it is written in a NPOV manner, I suppose so. Andjam 05:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/08/10/1123353386917.html ("The Age" newspaper) states "The controversial theory of "intelligent design" has won the qualified backing of Education Minister Brendan Nelson, who says it should be taught in schools alongside evolution if that is the wish of parents."   Woah!  Thank goodness he's not in government 1dragon (talk) 10:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support for ID 

message: After Nelson was elected leader of the Liberal Party, a "Current Event" tag was placed at the top of the page. Is this really necessary? It's sort of a one-fact event, that he was elected leader. I don't think there will be more detail to emerge that's notable for the article. A tag that indicates that things may change rapidly is a bit unnecessary, unless someone thinks the Liberal party will rapidly change its leader again very soon  :)   --Lester 02:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No way should it be there. The event is over; he's leader; everyone in Federal Liberal has stated their 100% support. End of story.--DreamsReign (talk) 00:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the "Current Event" tag necessary? 

message: The SMH article says Philip Nelson died in 1995, but this news.com article says 1990. Anybody have a more-reliable source to confirm which one is correct? --210.10.130.117 09:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll point out that the news.com.au article is at least partly wrong. It says, "Dr Nelson's younger brother, Philip, died of AIDs aged 34 in 1990"; but if he was 34 and he died in 1990, then he could not have been younger than Brendan. (Also it's "AIDS" not "AIDs" of course). Peter Ballard 11:40, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brother's death - 1995 or 1990? 

message: I think a little more could be made of Nelson's political opportunism p- the switch from Labor to Liberal motivated by nothing b=deeper than the desire to further his political career, the support of Intelligent design reversed when it became clear that it was a vote-loser... I wonder if the man has ever had a motive in his life other than the promotion of his personal ambitions? 203.189.134.3 (talk) 17:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Such speculation isn't encyclopaedic, we have to go from what has been reported in reliable sources, and must be careful not to synthesise facts. Orderinchaos 22:54, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opportunism 

message: Is is worthwhile adding a sentence or two based on this report of the doubbts surrounding Nelson's election as Lib leader? PiCo (talk) 17:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Validity/security of Nelson's election as Lib leader  

message: I think there needs to be more information added to his personal life. One particular area of interest may be his religion, I'm guessing he is a Christian but I dont have detailed knowledge. Kevin Rudd, his opponent, has an entire section titled "Religious Views" in his article- surely this deserves inclusion. Niveam (talk) 11:43, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal life 

message: I'm trying to news.google search the article I was reading but can't find it, does anyone have the article(s) indicating Nelson is more anti-apology than he previously was due to pressure from the conservatives in the party room who backed him for the leadership over Turnbull? Timeshift (talk) 00:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was about 10 years ago that Nelson supported the apology. Then again, he was also a member of the labor party tooLester 09:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

text: As much as I don't like the guy myself I thought it was pretty obvious that it was media speculation, trying to pressure him into it.124.177.66.44 (talk) 06:41, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What made it "pretty obvious"? Timeshift (talk) 07:01, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Looks like he caved in. Timeshift (talk) 07:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nelson has done 2 backflips on the sorry saga. Ten years ago he supported it. In January 2008 he emphatically said he did not support an apology. Now he supports it again. Crazy. Also, his opposition to "sorry" was the reason he won the Lib leadership against Turnbull (who must be fuming).Lester 11:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Indeed it has. Timeshift (talk) 12:37, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Additionally, he was one of Hanson's earliest opponents within the federal Liberals, and supported reconciliation quite publicly in 1996 even when Herron and Howard were saying the opposite. I'll dig up the proper sources later, but I have reviewed them and it's clear that he was not afraid of his views being known on the topic in the late 90s. Orderinchaos 22:55, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sorry 

message: Reverted positions to best placement, there is nothing at WP:MOS indicating the other layout is better. It looks worse. Also 'controversial' is not commentary. Timeshift (talk) 01:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I intended to remove the pixel count only and will do so again per WP:MOS#IMAGES. If your concern is layout, then you can adjust this by moving the pictures, not resizing. Oh, and "controversial" is commentary - let's report the facts only, and let readers make up their own minds. --Merbabu (talk) 01:36, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The default pixel count is not explicit, as these photos are not of small resolution and not closeup, a larger px is warranted. How is controversial commentary? You're saying people turning their backs did not create controversy, enough for many news articles of exactly what the picture shows, with one cited? No expansion is made on 'controversy', thus it is not commentary. Timeshift (talk) 01:45, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't comment on whether it was or wasn't controversial, rather I maintain that it is not how one writes a wikipedia article. Further, there is no pressing reason to go against the MOS - nothing in these pics is requires it to be different - and the pic layout was lousy before anyway.--Merbabu (talk) 01:53, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree. I suggest you gain consensus before making your changes. Timeshift (talk) 01:54, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Now, where have I heard that before? ;-)  .--Merbabu (talk) 01:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

text: They aren't the sole exception, and WP:MOS isn't a rule just a preference and not applicable to all images, it explicitly states custom sizes for some images are fine. Timeshift (talk) 21:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have a strong view on the size of these pictures, but I reallty think they would be better located further down the article. The lengthy infobox runs alongside them where they are now, resulting in either a mid-page block of images and infobox, or a narrow and unreadable column of text sandwiched between the two. The pictures relate to Nelson as Defence Minister - how about we move them down to that section? Euryalus (talk) 03:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't mind if that section wasn't so tiny. Timeshift (talk) 03:16, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a bit short. If I get time and can't think of anything more interesting to work on I'll expand it and then an image move might fit better.  Euryalus (talk) 03:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

text: But, these are smaller still than the non-pixel forced image size I proposed and you stringently opposed (above). *scratches head*. --Merbabu (talk) 12:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: Can anyone name the woman on the right here? Timeshift (talk) 14:56, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's Lowitja O'Donoghue 122.109.6.250 (talk) 09:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image of Nelson at apology 

message: The new wording is still somewhat odd. It states he is attempting to distance himself from the previous Howard govt policies, and says he doesn't support gay marriage, adoption or IVF, but "believes in addressing the social and economic injustices affecting homosexuals". Didn't John Howard take more or less the same stance, ie: superannuation? Timeshift (talk) 06:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gay rights 

message: I would personally question the legitimacy of Dave Tollner's vote not because he had lost his seat but because he is from the CLP, the NT non-Labor Party. The CLP is technically a different party from the Liberals and the arrangement of the CLP sitting with the Liberals in the House of Representatives and the Nationals in the Senate is just plain ridiculous. --The Shadow Treasurer (talk) 03:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There are various news articles saying how Tollner did vote Nelson. See the first few here as an example. Timeshift (talk) 05:52, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Is there a technical difference between the Liberal Parliamentary Party, the Liberal Party organisation at Commonwealth level and the Liberal Party at state/territory level? If so then presumably the party arrangements in the Territory are irrelevant vis a vis how an CLPer sits in Canberra (except in so far as what's acceptable to the CLP). And isn't the CLP recognised as being both the Liberal and National party for the Northern Territory, similar to the new Queensland arrangement? Timrollpickering (talk) 21:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no expertise in this area, but my understanding is that once elected, Politicians are not actually bound by their party. So a parliamentary grouping does not need to match the registered political parties. --Surturz (talk) 00:26, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dave Tollner 

message: "Nelson's leadership came under increased pressure in January 2008, after an MP shifted loyalties to Turnbull, and taking into consideration that former MP Dave Tollner was still allowed to vote, the leadership vote would now be deadlocked at 43-43."
This part of the article would need to be modified given Alexander Downer's retirement. Downer had voted for Turnbull and there is no way to know at this stage on whom Downer's replacement would vote for in a Nelson-Turnbull rematch.--The Shadow Treasurer (talk) 04:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  43-43 deadlock 

message: Should he be listed at List of Stratocaster players? Timeshift (talk) 03:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not have thought so. Brendan Nelson's collection of Strats and Harleys gives us an insight into the personality of Brendan Nelson. But the Stratocaster list is full of famous musicians of worldwide note. Nelson isn't up there at the moment, and will be even less so after he gets deposed from the Liberal leadership in the coming weeks. --Lester 03:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh. I don't think Timeshift was being serious. If he was then obviously no, as the list makes clear it only includes those whose Stratocaster use contributed to the popularity of the instrument or was otherwise unique or of historical importance. I doubt that youngsters Australia-wide have turned to the Stratocaster because the Opposition leader has four, and Nelson hasn't argued that his policies or political views were shaped by playing his guitar (though that would explain a fair bit). I recall Joan Kirner belting out "I Love Rock and Roll" on TV a few years back, perhaps we have the making of a smash hit political music duo ... Euryalus (talk) 04:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nelson and his four Fender Stratocasters 

message: Peter's made his decision that he did not seek the leadership of the party. And as I've said before I'd be very happy if he changes his mind - Brendan Nelson, 29/8/2008.
A spokesman later clarified that Dr Nelson meant he would be happy for Mr Costello to change his mind about quitting politics.
Noteworthy? Timeshift (talk) 09:46, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  going nowhere take 2 

message: Given the number of hits it's likely to attract, I decided to murder my student access to various databases and try and make a decent article of it. Haven't yet got to his ministerial roles (I'm up to 1997) but I think insufficient attention had been given to his AMA career given its prominence at the time (even I remember it and I was a teenager in high school at the time). If anyone has any suggestions for improvement to the sections I've reworked this morning, feel free to suggest them - I had to rely heavily on SMH and The Age and they might have missed some key bits. I'll look into 1997-2001 shortly, but have some errands to run today. Orderinchaos 22:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review of article 

message: Was Chris Uhlmann simply wrong when he wrote here today: "And it might surprise some to learn that former Liberal leader Brendan Nelson has yet to resign from Parliament, but he will before it resumes on Monday week."?  --  JackofOz (talk) 07:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nah, he's correct. I heard it on an interview this morning. (Quite common with these sorts of situations, took Geoff Gallop ages to resign after he announced his resignation, even though his replacement was already Premier - all it influences is the date of the by-election, really.) Orderinchaos 07:51, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not just that.  We're currently describing him as a "former politician" who left Parliament on 16 September 2009.  Those do not appear to be the case.  --  JackofOz (talk) 07:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I didn't spot that one - good point. Orderinchaos 08:08, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

text: And yeah, just talked to a couple of people - he is still in every sense the Member for Bradfield for now. Orderinchaos 08:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I see our source for his 16 September resignation is now a dead link.  But surely this is very unusual: the Ambassador, who is operating in the interests of the Australian (Labor) government, is still an MP, who is operating in the interests of the Liberal Party.  Is there not a fairly serious conflict of interests here, at least in principle?  --  JackofOz (talk) 08:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think he's the ambassador yet. He's expressed his desire to campaign for the new Liberal candidate in the by-election. However, I'm surprised he's still an MP. When this was first announced in late August, it was reported that Nelson would be resigning by the end of next month, i.e. September. He made his valedictory speech during the last sitting of parliament. What's he waiting for? Digestible (talk) 08:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: We're currently saying he was appointed Ambassador on 16 September. If that's not true, he's still the Ambassador-designate.  --  JackofOz (talk) 08:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

text: In fact, we've got it exactly the wrong way round: rather than being an Ambassador who's an ex-MP, he's an Ambassador-designate who's a serving MP.  --  JackofOz (talk) 08:43, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Has he resigned yet?

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message: Although Nelson was never Health Minister, Nelson's medical expertise did come in useful during his time in cabinet when the government was considering whether to approve a drug.
I think this should be included in the article but I don't remember what the drug was about and the details of it but Nelson as a doctor expressed his medical opinion that the drug was not safe to use. 49.3.72.79 (talk) 05:27, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Although he was never Health Minister....