Talk:Closet drama

message: This part is simply misled, as the view of academy is TODAY that senecan drama was to be recited indoor: 
"Beginning with Friedrich von Schlegel, many have argued that the tragedies of Seneca the Younger in the first century AD were written to be recited at small parties rather than performed. Although that theory has become widely pervasive in the history of theater, there is no evidence to support the contention that his plays were intended to be read or recited at small gatherings of the wealthy."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.148.213.35 (talk) 22:45, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid it's Britannica that's anachronistic there. The scholarly consensus leans towards performance for Seneca.  • DP •  {huh?} 02:27, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Misled part

message: Why was the sentence "Some call it 'closet play'. "　undone?
"closet play" is a synonym of "closet drama".
See this page↓.
http://www.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/Lesedrama.html  Furui gang 09:39, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A reference in an entry from an online German-English dictionary doesn't provide evidence of critical use of 'closet play'; I don't believe that the term is in use, but if you have a scholarly work that contradicts that belief, by all means cite it. DionysosProteus 13:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

text: For a 'fact' to appear in wikipedia, it must be established by appearing in a reputable source. The idea behind this, as I understand it, is that if someone else wants to dispute that fact, they can go check the original source for themselves. This is part of the no original research rule. I've studied drama widely (by which I mean in several different places/cultures) and have yet to encounter anyone using the term 'closet play', either in print or in discussions; closet drama, on the other hand, is used. I'm happy to stand corrected, if that's a mistaken assessment. DionysosProteus 14:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, of course - see necessity for sources offered above. To my knowledge, anyone that does use that term does so incorrectly. DionysosProteus 17:21, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

text: If it is a 'popular expression', you should have little difficulty locating a reputable source that uses it. I suspect this will be difficult, though. If you think about it, it is precisely in the subtle difference between 'drama' and 'play' that a 'closet' piece exists; it is a drama that is not played. DionysosProteus 18:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Your reasoning is a little out there, I believe. The common critical term is 'closet drama'; it is from that term that Norman has coined 'closet screenplay'. As indicated above, if it's so popular, you'd have no difficulty locating direct uses. DionysosProteus 13:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Like I say, if you believe it's a phase in use, go ahead and find a reputable source that uses it. I imagine, though, your search will be long and fruitless, since the term everyone I've ever encountered that spoke of such things used is 'closet drama'. DionysosProteus 14:17, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Is it really necessary to keep adopting new names? The second source you cite doesn't do the work you claim for it; it only mentions 'play' in the context of their suitability for theatrical production. Burroughs doesn't seem to make a theoretical point anywhere; looks like she's just being imprecise, no? DionysosProteus 00:50, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Then you contradict yourself. If the plays were intended to be performed, then they were not closet dramas, and 'closet play' is not a synonym of 'closet drama'. If she says what you think she says, then you need to cite her. DionysosProteus 22:30, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

text: You are missing a crucial element of 'closet dramas'. Because they are designed to be read rather than staged, they are written in a different way. This is what makes them different from merely unstaged plays. Look at Peer Gynt then read any of Ibsen's other plays and the difference is obvious. Without that difference, the term is useless as a critical tool; it describes nothing. DionysosProteus 13:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Closet play

message: "One Day when I was lost"　was also written to be filmed but it was called "closet screenplay" by Norman.--A dragon's child 22:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then his use of the term is invalidated by that application. A closet drama is written without production in mind. If the term is extended to the cinema, it has to mean the same thing, otherwise all you have is a screenplay, pure and simple. DionysosProteus 23:02, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Absolute nonsense. It is simply an unproduced screenplay, just like a play that doesn't get performed is an unproduced drama. What do you think 'closet' means, anyhow? DionysosProteus 00:35, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Many screenplays are published. That does not make them closet dramas. That room is the intended site of reception in contrast to a theatre (whether dramatic or cinematic). This is why Burrough's novel in screenplay form would qualify. A merely unproduced screenplay, whether published or not, does not. The work is conceived with the intention not to stage it. This gives it qualities other than those to be found in ordinary plays, etc.--that is, it consciously ignores the limitations of production in the usual medium. DionysosProteus 03:20, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

text: This is getting very tiring. There are plays and there are closet dramas. One is meant to be played, the other to be read. That's the difference. Even that minimal internet source you cite says "A play to be read rather than performed" - that is intention. Not a play that is read - that's just a simple play. The same goes for screenplay. Otherwise, the term 'closet' is utterly meaningless; it signifies nothing different from its non-closet relatives. Salome isn't a closet drama; I doubt the source you are citing is reputable if it claims it is. I suspect you are dealing with a German concept. I said nothing about "intend to ignore a theatre absolutely"; it is intended to be read rather than performed; the absolute / relative distinction is yours alone. Many closet dramas have been performed - Peer Gynt, the plays of Byron - but they are still closet dramas because their authors intended them to be read rather than performed. If you want a more expansive definition, as I've said repeatedly above, find a reputable source that offers one; stretching out flimsy points is no substitute for that. DionysosProteus 11:30, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ubik:the screenplay

message: ...however, closet drama is mentioned in the following navbox that I noticed at Church of Satan:
If the concept is used in that system enough for it to be listed, should the methods be discussed in this article if there are valid refs? Sorry all I can do is point this out! Thanks! — Geekdiva (talk) 08:27, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Magic is not mentioned in this article...