Talk:Recording practices of the Beatles

message: Much of this article seems to be plagiarised from the following site: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/news.php?id=21640 96.36.87.233 (talk) 09:27, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism 

message: I've re-ordered the sections so that they are now, hopefully, in chronological order. Apepper 10:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section Order 

message: There are a few innovations which I havn't described - mainly because they didn't seem to have become widely used outside of the Beatles; I'd welcome opinions:
This article is about the Beatles recording technology and how they recorded their music. It should not be just about who it influenced only. There are plenty of example I have given but it keeps being deleted. sydfloyds12
Vocals through a Leslie speaker - used, of course, for Tomorrow Never Knows.
 
Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Grateful Dead and Jethro Tull have used it. 
Varispeed recording - recording at one speed and playing back at another, to introduce a different texture (by shifting the harmonic balance). The Beatles used it a lot in 67, 68 but it didn't seem to catch on outside of them.
 
Using speakers as microphones. This was done to record Paul's bass - almost as a variation on DI; an identical speaker to the bass amplifier's was placed facing the bass. The engineer who set it up was almost sacked for that!
Apepper 10:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Sections? 

message: I've added some categories to the page. Apepper 23:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories 

message: The entry for ADT has been changed to Automatic Double Tracking; I'm changing it back to Artificial as it was named Artifical Double Tracking when it was used by the Beatles; I would also argue that it isn't automatic - an unpopular job for Abbey Road button pushers was wiggling the control that varied the speed of the second track to make it sound like a second voice.
Apepper 21:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Artificial or Automatic Double Tracking 

message: Is there more information about Joe Meek using DI? The modification to the article is rather vague. The Joe Meek wikipedia article is unreferenced, although it would be entirely in Meek's nature to try DIing instruments, it would be good to have some more background.
Apepper 22:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I recall of my book on Meek he was very secretive (to the point of paranoia) about his working methods, so I doubt if it can be verified. Remember he acted as his own engineer for most of his recordings, and virtually handbuilt the studios in his flat. What was and wasn't technically possible (and what was tried) may never be truly known. LessHeard vanU 22:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I note from discussions on his talkpage that User:Vera, Chuck & Dave has done edits on the Meek article. Perhaps they have an answer (or a book containing said info). LessHeard vanU 18:09, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sort of, User:Vera, Chuck & Dave was told about DI by Chas from Chas and Dave who worked with Meek. Apepper 23:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joe Meek and DI 

message: I have researched the Motown studio for dates, since it is widely known that they used Direct Injection for several years before the Beatles. I pinned it down to around 1962. I have therefore acnowledged this in the text. EMI/ McCartney discovered the method independently, but cannot claim to be the first in a 'major studio'. (Hence I changed it to 'Major British studio'.)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.96.161.52 (talk) 21:21, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks anonymous - I've reformatted the text slightly; looking at Mark Lewisohn's book and the DI comment, it does look like EMI were well behind Motown for recording bass - the Beatles complained that Motown records had much better bass than theirs and the DI technique was probably a response to that.
Apepper 09:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Direct Injection / Motown 

message: I'm not sure I fully go along with the changes to The Beatles' Attitude section by MegdalePlace; the paragraph I have most trouble with is:
Contrary to popular perception, McCartney was ahead of Lennon in this respect, pushing EMI's recording technology through overloading the mixing desk as early as 1964 in tracks such as "What You're Doing", and creating a fade-in as a jokey counterpart to the ubiquitous fade-out in 1965 for "Eight Days A Week".
I don't agree that there's a popular perception that McCartney was not ahead of Lennon; in any case such a claim should be cited.
There's no citation for the overloading of the desk for What You're Doing - I'm not saying it didn't happen, although Geoff Emerick's book made it clear that misusing equipment was a serious "offence" within EMI so it would be slightly surprising relatively early on in their career. McCartney did say they did something similar when recording Nowhere Man; running the guitars through three lots of faders so they could add extra treble and that they did deliberately put the guitars into distortion recording "Revolution".
For Eight Days a Week, ISTR Geoff Emerick's book says the fade in was done to hide a flaw in the performance - I don't have the book with me. This kind of thing was not without precedent; one of the guitars in Day Tripper is briefly faded out then back in, presumably because of a fluff in performance and the Strawberry Fields fade out and in was to hide the Beatles getting somewhat out of time.
I'll mark the claims as citation required - although I'll modify the popular perception part as I can't see how we can cite that.
Apepper 06:21, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Beatles' Attitude 

message: I've just noticed this section(!) It isn't cited, and I recall that George Martin claimed that he'd done the backwards vocals as a surprise for John - the putting the tape on backwards, ISTR was what interested the Beatles in backward guitars and cymbals.
I'm away from my Beatle books for a couple of weeks, but I'll do some work on the section in the New Year (honest!)
Apepper 20:26, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Backward Tapes 

message: For some of these sections, especially "sampling", it says what they did but not what influence it had, not even if it was the first. That's really not helpful.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stormchaser (talk • contribs) 20:26, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sampling and others 

message: I've moved this from the article; the programme may have been relevant, but no details of it are available on the website.
A program on the Irish online radio station, Klubb FM, featured a special hour-long show on the influence the Beatles had on the Recording Industry today, hosted on www.klubbfm.com
Apepper (talk) 18:50, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Online radio programme - Klubb FM 

message: This is of pretty low interest to most people, but the straw poll on whether it should be "the Beatles" or "The Beatles" has prompted me to check the article for, at least, consistancy. The article mainly used "the Beatles", I've been looking at Derek Taylor's articles on the Beatles official website and he used "the Beatles", as he was the band's press officer, I presume that they, at least, didn't object to being "the Beatles" - although McCartney didn't like being called just "Beatles" by Yoko (as in "Beatles will do this, Beatles won't do that." Based on that, I prefer that form; I've changed the (three from memory) occurrances of "The Beatles" to mark the article consistant. 
I'll follow the debate with some interest!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Apepper (talk • contribs) 21:33, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "the/The" tidying up 

message: Can somebody expand upon this? What was the old "Mancini" effect, and how did close miking affect the sound? MMetro (talk) 10:16, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Close miking of acoustic instruments 

message: I've added a new section on the attitude to recording classical and pop music. Since the title of the article was changed, it doesn't quite fit in, but OTOH it seems worth having - Emerick noted a change in attitude to pop music during the 60's and even seem to tie it down to recording a Day in the Life. ISTR in interviews he said that he thought that was one of the biggest things about how the Beatles changed recording, although I couldn't find a reference for that - if anyone can I'd be delighted!
I also added a bit to the calliope story; Emerick mentioned that they actually phoned around trying to find one, but could only find one controlled by punched cards and so abandoned that approach. Ironically, I recently visited a steam museum and they had a calliope playing When I'm 64, so it may have been possible after all!
I've also finally put the page number in for the reference to creating a sampled brass band solo for Yellow Submarine. Apepper (talk) 12:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classical Pop Attitude Section 

message: I've removed the What You're Doing claim - it's been uncited for 2 years now! If someone can provide a reference for deliberate overloading of the mixing desk during it's recording, then please replace it. I've added citations, where I can find them, for some of the missing bits - now the Anthology book is available, it makes much of the interview transcripts available - if you can find them! Apepper (talk) 16:53, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latest edits and tidying 

message: The article has two derivations of the term flanging; originally I mentioned George Martin's claim that it was his description of "feedback on the sploshing flange" to Lennon that introduced the term. Later its stated that it's a term from pressing the flange wheel on the recorder.
Personally, I think it was unlikely that anyone would stick their fingers anywhere near a pro recorder flange wheel - the tape was moving at 15 inches per second after all! However, what I think is irrelevant - I have citations for George Martin's claim (he's told the story several times), I don't know of any citation of a recording engineer saying he used to press the flange wheel to produce a phasing effect. I'll add a citation for Martin's claim when I find the page number and tone down the flange wheel claim and add a citation required flag. Apepper (talk) 23:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have the Craig Cross book, I'll see if I can find more about the reference. I've never heard Geoff Emerick mention pressing the tape reel; the closest I can remember is putting sticky tape on the pinch wheel to produce a distorted piano effect. Mark Lewisohn doesn't mention the technique either. I think you're right that the Beatles called (what nowadays is known as) phasing, flanging - personally, my take on the history is that "flanging" came from the George Martin remark to Lennon. The actual technique they used was to have a variable speed tape deck playing a copy; EMI had to modify the tape deck to have the varispeed facility. It seems likely that other studios trying to copy the technique but without varispeed would have tried "manually" changing the tape speed. Phasing sounds like what an electronics engineer would call the purely electronic effect. Is the Craig Cross a reliable citation? There's a few books I don't trust (Shout comes to mind).
I've had a look at an extract from the Cross book and I noticed he uses references; what was the reference for phasing on LSD? That would be a better citation (assuming it's a sensible reference).
I know it's slightly sacrilegious(!), but I actually prefer the stereo mix for some of Sgt Pepper - although I do prefer LSD in the mono mix. 
Apepper (talk) 23:50, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flanging... 

message: I see no evidence that John Lennon attempted to use feedback during the song "I Feel Fine" played at the New Musical Express. I see him turning to face Ringo who was located behind an amplifier, and after the song he turned and bowed to Ringo instead of the audience. Was he bowing to the amplifier? I heard no feedback distortion at all during this song, I doubt that feedback had anything to do with any of it.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tx5Bkj1VKY M^A^L (talk) 18:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question Regarding Amplifier Feedback 

message: Part of the influence of the Beatles was the bringing closer together of the classical and pop "worlds"; the mix of classical strings with electric guitars and drums used on "Strawberry Fields Forever" led Roy Wood to co-found the Electric Light Orchestra to continue where "Strawberry Fields" left off.
Who says?? And what does this have to do with recording technology? M^A^L (talk) 14:57, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please Add Reference (or better yet, remove completely)  

message: Could they also be considered innovators of albums without momentary gaps between tracks on albums (rills) as referred to on the Sgt Pepper and The Beatles (album) pages? And likewise with hidden tracks, and er, dog whistles... ? --TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 11:02, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other stuff 

message: I'm planning to do some work on fixing the mixing citations. I'm away from my Beatle books ATM, so it'll be a few days but I'll probably do some editing throughout the article.
I've also changed the description of how two 4 track machines were synchronised for A Day in the Life. Geoff Emerick described a slightly different technique in an ABC interview. Originally, the article said a pilot tone was recorded on a "spare" track on one machine, then that was used to drive the second machine. In the interview, Emerick said an external oscillator was used to control two machine simultaneously. I'll try looking at Geoff Emerick's book again to see if I have it right now. Apepper (talk) 17:23, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixing mixing citations 

message: He lives in morappur Nerupuda (talk) 19:21, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deepak 

message: I added a 'citation' to illustrate that the song does, in fact, have feedback at the beginning. For no explained reason, my citation was removed and the 'citation needed' tag was replaced. I'm going to add the citation back in. This is a place to discuss any issue anyone might have with citation. --82.21.97.70 (talk) 22:29, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Linking the song is not sufficient as a source. I could link a song and claim that I heard John Lennon say my name but that doesn't make it true. We need a reliable secondary source that confirms the edit. Sundayclose (talk) 00:41, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feedback in ''It's All Too Much''