Talk:Frank Wisner

message: So uh I just read Tim Kring's _Shift_.  Might wanna mention that if only to clarify how far reality that work strays with Mr. Wisner's life. 76.176.121.75 (talk) 05:22, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: In popular culture / fiction.

message: I apologize in the delay in this post as for whatever reason wikipedia.com was unavailable for me to hit on my browser for a period of about six hours after I posted the initial revision.
To quote from Wikipedia on disputes:
"Do not simply revert changes in a dispute. When someone makes an edit
you consider biased or inaccurate, improve the edit, rather than
reverting it. Provide a good edit summary when making significant
changes that other users might object to."
Instead of simply removing the questionable sentences in my additions as the above guidelines on disputed text suggests, Turgidsan instead chose to revert, thereby removing all my contributions to the text, justifying his actions as follows:
"(rv POVish additions (with formulations such as, "CIA began preparing to put him out to pasture"), based on a couple of blogs of questionable reliability)"
Of the two sources I use as references, only ONE was a blog and its sole purpose was to serve as an additional backup to the quotation I provided from Deborah Davis's biography of publisher Katharine Graham, a reference of which was made in my primary source, the truthout.org article by Roger Morris.  I have since replaced the 'blog' reference with the original published book including its ISBN-13 number.
Second, truthout.org is NOT, despite Turgidson's un-researched insinuation to the contrary, a blog site of any kind but is rather a reputable online news organization.  Should Turgidson believe to the contrary, I would challenge him back up his accusation with even ONE news article (sans unintentional and thus noted published retractions) they have printed of "questionable reliability".  The demonstrated level of accuracy of MSM, I believe would reveal a much poorer track record.
The primary article from which I drew as a source was the second of a two part article by Roger Morris titled "The CIA and the Politics of Counterrevolution: Robert Gates, The Specialist (Part 2)"[].  Had Turgidson
taken enough care to read it, or at least researched the author, he might have discovered the article are in fact excerpts from his upcoming publication "The Specialist; The Rise and Rise of Robert Gates" whom  Turgidson is claiming of 'questionable reliability'.
Here is Morris's biographical information which you can find augmented at the conclusion of the article:
Roger Morris is an award-winning author and investigative journalist who served in the Foreign Service and on the Senior Staff of the National Security Council under Presidents Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon. Before resigning over the invasion of Cambodia, he was one of only three officials comprising Henry Kissinger's Special Projects Staff conducting the initial highly secret "back-channel" negotiations with Hanoi to end the Vietnam War in 1969-1970. He is the author of several critically acclaimed books, including "Richard Milhous Nixon: The Rise of an American Politician, 1913-1952," and the best-selling "Partners in Power: The Clintons and Their America" as well as, most
recently, "The Money and the Power: The Making of Las Vegas and Its Hold on America" (co-authored with historian Sally Denton). His "Shadows of the Eagle," a history of US covert intervention in the Middle East and South Asia since the 1940s, will be published by Knopf early in 2008. His studies and commentary on American politics and foreign policy appear regularly on the website of the Green Institute where he is Senior Fellow.
In this case I feel that Turgidson's decision to 'revert' all of my Frank Wisner entry instead of simply removing/disputing the sentences he found POV'ish, and furthermore to label my sources to be of "questionable reliability" was both sloppy and irresponsible as it acted contrary to the aforementioned quoted 'guidelines' of conducting 'reversions' in Wikipedia, and thus was a disservice to Wikipedia itself.  
Since the original posting of my dispute, I was unable to access the wikipedia.com site for a period of about six hours during which Turgidson has chosen to trash my reversion without giving me proper time in response.  
Arias 08:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is too long winded for me to go point by point.  Look, I added a whole bunch of stuff to the article, based on reputable, verifiable sources -- you cannot simply go about and blindly revert that material. I also put inline references, which is the better style.  Now, if you want to put your own material, please go ahead, but do that without deleting sourced material, or removing relevant wikilinks, or valid categories, etc, etc.  Turgidson 12:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Before engaging in such vitriolic personal attacks, please review Wikipedia guidelines, especially WP:NPA and WP:AGF.  If you can refrain from such attacks in the future, and assume good faith from fellow editors as a starting point, then (and only then) we can talk. Otherwise, I have nothing to say to you.  Have a good day.  Turgidson 00:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: I take issue with Turgidson's reversion of my additions ...

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: . Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:05, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Frank Wisner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070405100334/http://www.aiipowmia.com/research/wadley.html to http://www.aiipowmia.com/research/wadley.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:54, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: For people interested in doing more research on this subject please see:
* 
I am also informed that the private papers of Frank Wisner are located in the Small Special Collections Library at the University of Virginia. S Philbrick(Talk) 14:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the link in the article to the declassified document on Tanda Caradja mentioned in the last section. The document, as originally cited, is here: Memorandum from immigration and naturalization service files - Subject : Caradja, Princess Catherine. This article is about Wisner, no need for the Caradja document. Rgr09 (talk) 12:52, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  More research sources 

message: The article originally stated "Wisner oversaw the creation of all the stay-behind networks in East and West Europe." For this it cited Ganser, Daniele: NATO's Secret Armies: Operation GLADIO and Terrorism in Western Europe (2005) pp. 55 ff.
This is not so. See, for example, . Ganser 2006 has many problems, yet it is used in many articles throughout Wikipedia. A closer look is needed for all of these. Rgr09 (talk) 21:46, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wisner and stay-behind nets 

message: The article has long been marred by a number of unsourced, questionable, and sometimes difficult to understand claims. I am cleaning these up with annotation here. Rgr09 (talk)
* "On August 23, 1951, Wisner succeeded Allen W. Dulles and became the second Deputy Director of Plans, heading the Directorate of Plans, with Richard Helms as his chief of operations. This office had control of about 75% of the CIA budget and used about 60% of all CIA personnel." The source cited (Cullather's History of PBSUCCESS) does not give the figures cited here. I removed these
*"In this position, [Wisner] was instrumental in supporting pro-American forces that toppled Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran in 1953 and Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán in Guatemala in 1954." This claim is also sourced to Cullather. Wisner's role in Guatemala is well documented in Cullater, but this is not the appropriate source for his role in Iran. I added a citation tag to the Iraq reference.
*"The FBI Director, J. Edgar Hoover, described the OPC as 'Wisner's gang of weirdos'." This quote did not come from Hoover, but from an FBI agent author Mark Riebling interviewed. I have simply removed the quote.
*"The FBI provided details of Wisner's affair with Princess Caradja in Romania during the war; the FBI counterintelligence claimed that Princess Caradja was a Soviet agent." This is discussed above. I have clarified that this was a reference to Alexandra (Tanda) Caradja.
*"In March 1945, Wisner was transferred to Wiesbaden, Germany, where he served as OSS liaison to the Gehlen Organization." Source is Theoharis et al, p. 304, but this is in error. As the Reinhard Gehlen article notes, the organization was not established until after 1946. Rgr09 (talk) 21:39, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced or questionable claims 

message: Frank Wisner served with the OSS in Cairo in 1943-1944.  See Evan Thomas, The Very Best Men,(1996) Kindle version, pages 20 and 182.----Ellis Wisner, May 31, 2020Evan Thomas, The Very Best Men  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.105.255.79 (talk) 21:10, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Added! Rgr09 (talk) 22:54, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frank Gardiner Wisner in Cairo in 1943 to 1944