Talk:War memorial

message: In the (current) third paragraph of the article (the one starting with "In modern times..."), there is a list of countries where war memorials were erected in most villages (France, England, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and "other countries").  I don't think there is anything unique about these countries -- after the horror of the First World War, I think the same phenomenom occurred in virtually all countries that were involved.  My suggestion is to get rid of the list and simply reference "countries involved in the conflict".  Skeezix1000 20:10, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: First World War Memorials

message: war memorial in newmarket cb????? -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.27.208.111 (talk • contribs) .
*What exactly are you asking?  Skeezix1000 18:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ?????war memorial 

message: There were too many images, and the different sizes in direct follow-up were distracting from the article. I have removed two (still 10 images! still really too many, but I didn't want to make too many people angry) and resized the others. For more explantion, please see my edit histories of the 25th February 2007. MadMaxDog 11:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  But, further to posts above, the selection has again started to veer towards UK/US memorials (although your removal of some of the English ones helps).  I have done some further culling, to ensure that there is no more than one image per country in order to better represent a world view.  In response to Ttiotsw's comments above, I have also reintroduced a Canadian image (as the sole remaining Cdn. image, of the Vimy Ridge memorial, was removed once it was found to be a copyvio), but it can always be replaced if a new, non-copyvio Vimy Ridge image is uploaded.  I have also reintroduced a Russian image, to replace the images I have removed.  Finally, I reduced the excessive wikilinking in the image descriptions. Skeezix1000 18:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Good point.  If you review the edit history of the article, however, you'll note that there have been issues with images.  Not suprisingly (given this is the English-language Wikipedia), the "natural tendency" appears to be for the article to fill up quickly with images from English-speaking countries (mostly English, and suprisingly, Canadian), or simply several images from the same country (Germany and Russia come to mind) -- a situation which we try to avoid and is contrary to policy (at times, the globalize tag would not have been unwarranted on this article).  Some articles more than others attract editors who want to give their personal photos prominence on Wikipedia  -- this is one of them.  On occasion, some editors have even removed "more diverse" images in order to include the latest pic they have uploaded.  The only way to counter this in a fair, non-subjective fashion is to effectively limit the images to one per country.  Having said that, I agree with you that there are a few cases where a memorial is unique, and in keeping with the goal of trying to maintain and promote diversity of images, ought to be included even if it results in there being more than one from a country.  The image of the women's memorial is a perfect example.  In retrospect, it ought not to have been removed.As for the Soviet images, I don't think I agree with your reasoning.  The fact that the Soviet Union contained many nationalities is not reason to allow multiple Red Army images.  Yet, a nation like Estonia, for example, can easily be represented -- it took me 4 minutes on the Commons to find an image of an Estonian war memorial unrelated to the exploits of the Red Army in WWII.  Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:21, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: One more point, in response to your edit summary that "there is room" - sure, there is.  Agreed.  But the Commons is full of images of a vast range war memorials all over the world -- we can add new images and still maintain diversity.  As for images being interesting - I agree with that too.  Even if we try to maintain a fair representation here, we should ensure images are uploaded to Commons, so that readers can follow the link and see all the images that have been uploaded.  The memorial/War memorial categories at the Commons are poorly organized at the memorial, so my next task will be to try to organize that in some coherent way that complements this article (and articles in other Wikipedia projects).  Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: The picture of the Liberty Memorial is an impressive photo of an impressive memorial, but wouldn't an image of the USMC War Memorial, which is likely the best-known such memorial in the country, be a better representation of a US war memorial?  Nyttend (talk) 18:20, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  US picture 

message: What is it with the last paragraph in the Controversy section with its first sentence just going on and on and on and on??2.29.92.113 (talk) 00:21, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It was almost certainly from an editor who signs himself Peter Judge, and who has a history of adding impenetrable gibberish to articles about war memorials - he's now banned from the project. I've removed the paragraph. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:47, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 15:22, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  World's longest sentence? 

message: at least in the US, a fair number of memorials, mostly statues, to individual soldiers. I am not sure if these would fit into the scope of this article or not.  Any ideas? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 15:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This is just my opinion: A statue of a person is a "person memorial". Even if the person fought in one or more wars, it isn't a memorial to the whole war or to all of the war's casualties. Encapsulated in this article's clever name, this is about memorials to one or more wars. IMHO. ChrisJBenson (talk) 06:49, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  There are 

message: I made a significant modification to the section previously entitled "Historic usage". These notes are intended to quell concerns about the need for such a wholesale change. I started with the very first word!
* Historic usage
The words historical and historic have quite different meanings. The former just means "from a long time ago", whereas the latter carries additional meaning (of great significance). I believe the intent of this section was just to describe war memorials from a long time ago, i.e. Historical usage.
* For most of human history war memorials were erected to commemorate great victories.
No, no, and no. Depending on your definition of "human", our history extends for at least 50,000 years (that's 500 centuries). With very few exceptions, war memorials are a product of the last two centuries. Furthermore, war memorials were not and are not the exclusive prerogative of the victors, and were certainly not reserved only for the greatest of those.
* In Napoleon's day, the dead were shoveled into mass, unmarked graves.
Napoleon started a lot of troubling things, but that unceremonious ignominity wasn't one of them, and this practice didn't start on any of "his" days.
* The Arc de Triomphe in Paris and Nelson's Column in London contain no names of those killed.
The Arc de Triomphe is adorned with plenty of names (although it does also feature the tomb of the unknown soldier). And Nelson's Column isn't a war memorial at all. It commemorates the life of one man. Can anyone guess who?
* However, by the end of the nineteenth century, it was common for regiments in the British Army to erect monuments to their comrades who had died in small Imperial Wars and these memorials would list their names.
Was it? And did they? Almost every war memorial in Britain (regimental monument or otherwise) dates to 1918 or later. I won't even comment on the non-NPOV term "small Imperial Wars" other than to say it no longer appears in this article.
* By the early twentieth century some towns and cities in the United Kingdom raised the funds to commemorate the men from their communities who had fought and died in the Second Anglo-Boer War.
I could find no reliable source for this. And "Anglo-Boer War" is an insult by omission to the Welsh, Scots, and Irish (and I am one of those). Even if this is true and well-documented, it is completely dwarfed by another war in the early twentieth century that attracted the funds of every town, city, parish, village and hamlet in Britain (and elsewhere).
* Reference to the Flodden Windows, stained glass windows in Middleton, Manchester. Some claim they commemorate dead archers from the Battle of Flodden (1513).
I removed it because "upon closer inspection", the stained glass windows carry a date eight years before the battle took place, and is just a tribute to all archers.
* Reference to All Souls College, Oxford.
I corrected the war the college itself memorialises (The Hundred years War in general, not the Battle of Agincourt, 23 years earlier).
I also rearranged what was left of the text in this section to be in chronological order.  
The section could probably use a little more [truthful] information now. such as a Tasmanian War Memorial that enumerates British losses in New Zealand, or the earliest American memorials for the War of Independence, the War of 1812, and the American Civil War. Cenotaphs in general, and specifically the Lutyens Cenotaph should probably be introduced here too.
I hope this wholesale change isn't too controversial. In my opinion, it was absolutely necessary. I know Wikipedia prefers verifiable over true, but previously, this section had neither of those traits. Even its title was incorrect!
With thanks from ChrisJBenson (talk) 09:54, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Our thanks to you,   for taking this task on.  Though, changing 57 (carpmath) different sections is a bit more than I can hold in my brain at one time.  Occasionally while reading through your edits I found myself uttering the dreaded, "yeah, . . ..but" and I might return to a point or two later.  But for now, two thumbs up.  Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 16:17, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historic usage: Renamed section and removed its first paragraph 

message: or maybe it is just me, that says in articles such as this one each country is only allowed one picture unless there is a good reason to allow more.  With that in mind I have removed one of the UK ones, and placed it here.  I feel that  Edwin Lutyens' Cenotaph is a better example than this one, so left that one to represent the UK.  If you disagree with any of this, the gender argument is a good place to start, here is where to raise your voice. Carptrash (talk) 17:37, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: One difficulty is that correctly you say one memorial to their war in dead per country, but this is a memorial to women who died in WII, not specifically UK. This was built as it was (and maybe still is) the only memorial to women who died, and in removing it from the article wikipedia is continuing the tradition of ignoring the fact that women also sacrificed their lives. The fact that it was sited in UK is secondary to the fact that it acknowledged that yes women also died.  Edmund Patrick –  confer 21:49, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I see nothing in the article about the Memorial to suggest that it is not just for the UK women who served.  Check out the uniforms worn.  But i take your point about the gender inequities found on wikipedia, so will remove the other UK photo as not to continue the tradition of wikipedia being USA & UK top heavy.  Carptrash (talk) 22:49, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think both of us are between the devil and the deep blue sea on this one as both images have a "right" to be in the article, I wonder if other editors have, for example when faced with such dilemas, set up a gallery section - which would obviously become very large very soon! - or found another method to overcome such duel requirements? Edmund Patrick –  confer 10:17, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Maybe a subject link to Monument to the Women of World War II which obviously gives greater specific details to the monument? Edmund Patrick –  confer 05:44, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  it is sort of a tradition,