Template talk:Infobox school/Archive education in Canada

message: Some examples of the completed template
*Featherston Drive Public School
:Correction -- this is not a good example since it doesn't actually use the infobox template.  My recent attempts to change this article to the official infobox were continuously reverted by an individual who doesn't like the look of the infobox.  My suggestion instead is to look through one of the many Canadian school articles listed in "What links here". --Stephane Charette 22:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Examples

message: Where in the template info box do you think the URL link for the schools website should go ??
:I think we should follow Template:Infobox School or Template:Infobox School2.    UTSRelativity (Talk)  06:23, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do we have three templates for one subject ??  Battlefield 12:42, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There is another WikiProject working on the other templates.  Personally, I don't see why we should duplicate the effort.  We can have our infobox for our other information.    UTSRelativity (Talk)  17:41, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: URL

message: This template was re-written tonight.  The previous version was not a template that could be used directly from articles since some fields were not even "fields" but simply static text (city, province, contact information) that had to be WP:SUBST and then edited within the article.  This new version is really a template, with most fields optional, yet should have exactly the same "look-and-feel" as the previous version.  For further discussion on the use of this and related school/education templates, please see the discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada. --Stephane Charette 12:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To prepare swapping out older templates and hard-coded infoboxes in several Canadian school articles, I've added the following optional fields to the template:
# colours
# motto
# affiliation
# mascot Stephane Charette 08:28, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New Template

message: In regards to the URL provided in the infobox, I propose that the official school profile from the school board's web page be provided, instead of a URL directly to the school web server.  This is for the following reasons:
# not all schools have a personal web site, especially when it comes to primary schools
# some schools have student-run sites which are not "official", even though the URL may make it look official
Especially due to #2, I think only the official sites should be linked from the infobox.  Of course, "external links" at the bottom of the article can always be used to link to any other school- or student-run web site.
To pick a recent example, A. Y. Jackson Secondary School (Toronto):
* URL from the school board is: http://www.tdsb.on.ca/scripts/Schoolasp.asp?schno=3432
* URL that looks official but is actually run by some students who attend the school:  http://www.ayjackson.ca/
--Stephane Charette 03:29, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  URL to the school's profile at the school board, or directly to the school? 

message: The school number field can be found with:
* Ontario schools
* BC schools
(Please add the other provinces/territories to this list as official sources are found.)
--Stephane Charette 19:21, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  School number 

message: I boldly added padding to the template. — Usgnus 18:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Padding 

message: Let's move all future discussion on this template to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Education in Canada. — Usgnus 23:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Look like discussion for this template is still happening here.  This is what people expect, unless we turn the entire talk page into a redirect (which I've seen done for other template in case we want to consider it). --Stephane Charette 16:46, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikiproject:Education in Canada 

message: I removed :Category:Schools in Canada, as the convention is to put articles only in the lowest subcat, that is relevant.  Also, sometimes its necessary to specify a sorting paramater for a category.  As well, for an editor, its not instantly obvious why an article is in a category not specified in the article (stubs are ok, because the category has the word "stub" in it).  --Rob 06:30, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I recategorized all remaining schools that had been placed manually in :Category:Schools in Canada. -- Usgnus 19:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  cat removed 

message: For the Grades field, the label is linked instead of the value. This is to allow footnotes to work with the value. -- Usgnus 16:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I must say I think it looks better when the value is linked.  Especially since none of the other labels have links.  You can still use footnotes in an infobox:  see Toronto District School Board for example, which uses the same footnote style references but at the bottom of the article instead of within the infobox. --Stephane Charette 16:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I can see what the problem will be.  If you pass in a ..., then it will be surrounded by the link from within the template.  Hmmm...  Maybe we need an additional optional postfield text.  Yuk.  Ok, I see why you changed the link to be on the label.  --Stephane Charette 16:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Template:Infobox University has many labels linked, and I think it looks fine. And tel, fax and e-mail are wikilinked.  -- Usgnus 16:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grades 

message: I've just reverted a change to the label "Language", to make it "Languages".  I believe that most schools in Canada have a single language.  (Of course I'm biased having come from the French education system in Ontario.)  The articles and templates I've seen are mostly either for English-language schools, or French-language schools.  Every once in a while -- but definitely the minority -- we have a school with dual-track English and French.  I don't oppose changing the field from Language to Languages, but I think it should be for the right reason.  --Stephane Charette 01:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language field 

message: Seems we've been copied.  ;)  This template also exists as :Template:Infobox Education in the United States.  Just to note in case someone fixes something or adds something significant, it may make sense to take a peek at the U.S. version to see if they suffer from or need the same thing.  --Stéphane Charette 18:53, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template copy 

message: Please see the existing discussion on telephone numbers, as well as the discussion over at WT:EiC#Should the infobox have fields for telephone numbers.  While I agree that Wikipedia is not a directory, it does not prevent us from providing some location-specific information to place the articles in the right context.  In this case, the physical location of schools is likely important to the reader, and part of the location information is the postal code.  --Stéphane Charette 01:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The postal code is not the physical location of schools. It is specifically for routing mail through the postal service. —Centrx→talk • 01:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Postal codes tell a lot about where a building is located, and as an added bonus, they are standardized throughout the country.  Anyone who has lived in a relatively large Canadian city can tell you what part of the city is referenced by the postal code, especially since in cities the codes are assigned in order as you move through the city.  --Stéphane Charette 02:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In other words, the information is only useful for people who happen to live in the same city as the school? and nevertheless unnecessary given that they can simply look it up in a map? —Centrx→talk • 02:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All articles on Wikipedia can be looked up elsewhere, if you have the resource material handy.  --Stéphane Charette 18:35, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but that just brings us back to the original problem: Wikipedia is not an address directory. What other reason is there for including the postal code other than that someone may use it to navigate on a map or send a letter? —Centrx→talk • 02:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we should just drop the postal code, and keep the street address.  Also, we should add map coordinates, like what's done for geographical articles.  Centrx, I agree something used merely for contacting a school, isn't appropriate (hence the problem with postal codes, phone numbers, email, etc...).  But locating something on map, seems entirely appropriate.  While people in the area probably can find the school on a map easily, I think it would be quite nice for others to be able to click on a link and find something in Google Maps (or whatever) and visually see where in the world it is.  I don't care if somebody can physically find their way to a school (not our concern) but I do want them to quickly see where it is visually, to put things in context (especially important if an articles discusses programs/details directly related to things in the local area, that would appear on a typical map).    --Rob 03:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Postal code 

message: Note that some schools actually do customize the infobox colours.  For example, see St. George's School (Vancouver).  Thus, I've reverted the recent changes.  --Stéphane Charette 01:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is correct, I didn't see that particular page, the infobox looked very somewhat unathesitc to me.  Anyways, I still believe the homepage should be at the bottom of the list like similar infoboxes, I don't see why it is so prominent.Epson291 05:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox colours 

message: There's been renewed conflict over the presence of the address information.  I believe Wikipedia policy/practice suggessts we should remove contact information, but may keep location information (as its an essential element to a school).  So, first, the postal code can be removed (I thought it was, but apparently its back).  Also, potentially, we could move to using co-ordinates, instead of street addresses, like many articles on stationary items.  I don't suggest any changes at this moment, as much discussion is needed, and a change would require lots of work, and affect thousands of articles.  But I think the premise that the location is worth including, and but not contact information, should be the guideling principal, to whatever is done.  --Rob 14:14, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Location good, contact bad 

message: I've just added a coordinates parameter (and an hCard microformat) to this template. See Gloucester High School (Ottawa) far an example of coordinates in use. i've asked User: The Anome if he may be able to convert postal codes to approximate coordinates by bot. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 12:12, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Coordinates

message: Well, before noticing the above discussion about merging to , I made some changes to the template. Now, the magic word PAGENAME will be used for the infobox title if no name parameter is set. I've also tidied up a few things, to make a cut-and-paste copy of the generic template into an article a bit cleaner. Mindmatrix 22:57, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pagename

message: Please do not include street addresses or phone numbers in these infoboxes. Wikipedia is not a directory. Kingturtle (talk) 19:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It does not have phone number, I don't believe, and I agree with not including one but location/street address is of interest just as co-ordinates are. DoubleBlue (Talk) 21:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I object, and when you look through this talk page you'll find several arguments supporting the retention of street addresses. PKT(alk) 11:35, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not convinced by the arguments and I think this is out of line with current practices.  Any suggestions on good places to bring this up to attract a wider audience? ElKevbo (talk) 15:01, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, I think you're mistaken -  has address parameters, and several other editors have expressed on this page that street addresses are useful. However, I have posted a notice on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Education in Canada.  PKT(alk) 18:28, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  street addresses 

message: Although it says 'enrollment' in the template, it should be 'enrolment' (British spelling). StatsCan uses the British spelling when referring to University enrolment, eg: http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/81-004-XIE/200410/qk.htm Cavenba (talk • contribs) 05:20, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Canadian English also uses enrolment, and per MOS:TIES, the template should reflect that. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 21:44, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enrolment or Enrollment? 

message: In case anyone wanted to create a map for the area the school was located in, you can now do so with "map=" and "mapsize=". The image is displayed over the "address=" values (example. I find it looks good there, but change it you find a better spot. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 02:59, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Also added settings for overriding the background colour, and the addition of captions underneath the aforementioned map. Use "bgcolor_map=" and "mapcaption=" to do so. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 04:08, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added setting for map 

message: We already have K-12 which applies to most provinces and 13 which applies to Ontario, but we should also have Primary I-V and Secondary I-V for use in Quebec schools. --Jmajeremy (talk) 16:32, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Ontario no longer has a grade 13, is it neccessary to maintain this portion? Québec has primary school grades 1 through 6 (1 - 6) , and secondary school grades 1 through 5 (sec 1 - 5) often refered to as grades 7 - 11 by English speakers. --UnQuébécois (talk) 02:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quebec-specific grades 

message: :WP:OVERLINK states that major geographic areas, such as Canada, should not be linked. The template should be updated to reflect that. The fact that the city and province (or territory) is already linked, there's no need to link all three either. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:19, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there has been no objection, I'll make the change now. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:35, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overlinking in template 

message: The purpose of an infobox is to have standard, shared, and common information in articles discussing similar topics so there's a major problem with this template or how it's being used if it's necessary to have EIGHT free fields!  Does this template need to be expanded or significantly changed?  And is there consensus among editors to do so?  ElKevbo (talk) 16:57, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Eight free fields?

message: It is come to my attention that my man User:Secondarywaltz has decided to put poor visibility on colours. Care to talk about the changes or removal? FreshCorp619 (talk) 22:30, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand what you wrote, FreshCorp.  Care to rephrase that?  PKT(alk) 23:52, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read Wikipedia:COLOUR. People with impaired vision cannot view most of FreshCorp619's colour choices in Toronto school infoboxes. Text must contrast with the background and blue links are impossible on any shade of dark blue. Secondarywaltz (talk) 13:39, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have also tried to discuss this with FreshCorp619 but I received no response.  The use of colors that are difficult to read is a significant problem.  In fact, I don't even know why they're in the parameters of this template since they are so ripe for abuse and add so little to articles. ElKevbo (talk) 13:59, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Debate about Bg color 

message: I have updated the code to use , and in the process, removed the bgcolor_address parameter.  I could add it back in, but given the thread above, it seems like we should remove more of these.  to track the bgcolor parameters, I have created :Category:Infobox education in Canada using bgcolor parameters.  it will take some time to fill, but once it is filled, we can get an idea of how frequently these parameters are being used. Frietjes (talk) 20:31, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This template is a duplicate of and redundant to . That is the one you should have updated and replaced this entirely. Secondarywaltz (talk) 21:30, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  see this discussion.  Feel free to nominate it again for deletion. Frietjes (talk) 21:35, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, but I really don't care about this and it would be too much work to wrestle with. The editors seem determined to retain and customize it in an inappropriate manner. In most of the cases I've seen simple replacement retains everything. But anyway, perhaps you should consider a similar upgrade to the  generic version. Secondarywaltz (talk) 21:48, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have been working on , but due to the extreme number of parameters, it will probably have to wait until the lua version is deployed (see here for a nearly working version). Frietjes (talk) 23:12, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  New code