Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chess/Archive 2

message: As list of chess openings shows, there are a lot of short articles on sub-variations of the Ruy Lopez and the Sicilian.  There are even such articles for Nimzo-Indian, Alekhine, English, Benko gambit, and others.  Most of these articles are stubs of only one or two paragraphs.  We need to decide whether to keep the articles this way or to merge them back into their main articles.  Bubba73 (talk), 16:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think those article, which consist just of one paragraph should be merged back into main article. For example:
* Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav attack, 7...O-O, 
* Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav attack, 9.Bc4, 
* Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav attack, 10.O-O-O and 
* Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav attack, 12.h4
should be merged into Sicilian Defence, Dragon Variation. Create a separate article for each ECO code is quite bad idea. Larger variants, which already have quite a lot of info should stay, for example:
* Sicilian Defence, Dragon Variation, 
* Sicilian Defence, Scheveningen Variation, 
* Sicilian Defence, Najdorf Variation, 
i.e. basically main variations with rich theory. Andreas Kaufmann 19:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I think your proposal is exactly how it should be.  And after looking at these overzealous opening articles that were linked above (the Dragon variations), I see they were created by a "WTHarvey" character  whose main objective seemed to be linking to his web site in the external links.  So these articles weren't created in good faith anyway.  SubSeven 20:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Assume good faith. :-) Anyway, until the Sicilian article is short enough, they can be merged back. But perhaps in the far future, I can imagine that they will have right on existence as soon as somebody writes more than one paragraph sbout them. Today, my vote is rather neutral as I think that we have much more acute problems in this Wikiproject than stubs on openings.--Ioannes Pragensis 20:57, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that the subvariations of the  Sicilian Yugoslav should be merged back into th Dragon article, and that the atricles on the Dragon, Schev, and Najdorf are certainly good enough to stand on their own. Bubba73 (talk), 21:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I just found C86 (chess opening).  I don't know how many ECO codes hace their own articles.  This needs to be addressed too.  Bubba73 (talk), 04:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  User:Sim man added C86 and some others.  He says that he has a project to add all ECO codes.  He is not a member of this project.  I think we need to decide whether or not this should be done, and invite him to join this project.  (He has not edited since Feb 2006 though.) Bubba73 (talk), 04:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've removed the text and made it a redirect.  It didn't say anything that wasn't in Ruy Lopez#Worrall Attack and Ruy Lopez, Worrall Attack.  Bubba73 (talk), 17:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many short articles on opening variations? 

message: As you know, the article Chess is now a Featured article removal candidate. We (=Andreas Kaufman, Bubba73, SandyGeorgia, myself...) addressed most of the initial concerns and the article has been completely rewritten since the nomination. So I hope that there are good chances that it will keep its Featured status. But there is still an important concern regarding inline citations in the History and Culture section - they are too few. Here in Prague I do not have access to English chess books, so please help if you have. For example: History of Chess by Harold J. Murray; Chess: The History of a Game (Hardinge Simpole Chess Classics) by Richard Eales; History of Chess by Jerzy Gizycki. Thank you,--Ioannes Pragensis 08:26, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have History of Chess by Harold J. Murray.  I have A short history of Chess, by Davidson.  I used that in the history of stalemate.  If anything on history needs a reference, I'll look for it there.  Bubba73 (talk), 15:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Chess]] in FARC - your help needed 

message: I have been working on creating for a template for the Chess articles (which can be found here Template: Chess).  I thought this group might be interested in helping to make this better. Remember 00:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you! The idea is great, we must only select better items for the template. For example I would replace the category People with "Leading chess players" (before Steinitz) and "World Chess Champions" (starting with Steinitz). Because "People" is too broad to be in a template - there are hundreds of notable chess players.--Ioannes Pragensis 11:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template 

message: As far as I know, there isn't an article on opening traps.  checkmate gives a lot of quick checkmates in the opening.  I think it would be good to have an article with other opening traps.  Bubba73 (talk), 04:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The  chess traps category has a list of traps.  Checkmate also has several quick checkmates in the openings.  I propose moving both the list of traps from the category and the list of checkmates in the opening to a new article, and letting it be expanded.  The new article could be "Chess opening traps" or "List of chess opening traps".  Bubba73 (talk), 15:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A general article may perhaps be good. But I would keep also the categories and the articles about the most important traps. And there are too many traps in openings...--Ioannes Pragensis 15:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Definitely keep the category and the indfividual articles.  But move the list at the top of that to the new article and move most of the quick checkmates in checkmate to the new article.  Bubba73 (talk), 19:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  article on opening traps? 

message: The chess template may provide a way to solve a problem which has been bugging me for a while: links to games collections. In the "External links" section of nearly every major chess player, there is to a collection of their games - sometimes more than one link. chessgames.com seems to be the preferred link to use, but sometimes others are used. Recently there was a discussion here on whether another site's list of games (chessworld.net) was spam. The problem was, these different sites all might have slight advantages over one another. So should every player's page have links to their games at 2, 3, 4 or more sites? So instead, why not have EVERY player's page link to a page called something like "chess games collections", using the chess template? That page could provide detailed links to chessgames.com and whatever other games collections are out there. That way, rather when deciding whether or not an external link to a games page is spam, do it once on the "chess games collections" rather than 100 different times on 100 different player pages. Does this idea have merit? Rocksong 01:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an interesting idea.  My main concern with it though is that you'd lose one-click access to the games collection for a particular player; you'd have to manually search by name once you get to the external site.  I like the ChessGames links in particular because they have biographical information, statistics, and user comments in addition to the games collection (which I find actually kind of sucks, since you cannot download a collection as PGN).        What if we keep both the individual ChessGames links on player pages and have a Chess Game Collections article? -SpuriousQ 02:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps the "chess games collections" page could have all the relevant links: Kasparov's games at chessgames.com, Karpov's games at chessgames.com, etc. Of course that's still one extra click to get from Kasparov's page to Kasparov's games. I guess I'm suggesting trading off a small amount of browsing convenience, and in return gaining a large amount of editorial convenience (easier control of the spam links). Rocksong 04:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

text: It is an interesting idea, Rocksong, but I am rather against it because it means much more inconvenience for the readers. No only one click more, but also deciding which database to choose and searching in it. We, editors, should took the responsibility and decide what to link. Moreover, as SpuriousQ already mentioned, the purpose of the links is not only collection of games, but also more biographical information, and that is exactly why ChessGames is preferred at this time. - On the other side, I strongly support your idea to create an auxiliary article about collections of chess games and chess information on the web, maybe not in the main namespace. It should be linked from this wikiproject to help editors. --Ioannes Pragensis 08:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion: "Games Collections" section on the chess template 

message: Hi!  I'm working on an article on The Turk, the chess playing automaton hoax.  The machine was able to do the knight's tour, which we have an article of with a free image of a way to solve the knight's tour.  I'm not good with images, but if I were to provide a picture from the book to someone to create an image of the knight's tour (I'm assuming since it's simply a chess puzzle that was completed by someone 300 years ago, copyright isn't an issue for the derivative), would someone be able to help?  Thanks. --badlydrawnjeff talk 02:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, we already have an article about the knight's tour, and the picture is there - use it if you wish. Greetings,--Ioannes Pragensis 08:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but it's not the format in which the Turk solved it, which is more of what I'm looking for.  If I had any graphic abilities, I'd do it myself... --badlydrawnjeff talk 11:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I understand. Why not take the image from the book? Is it copyrighted?--Ioannes Pragensis 12:21, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears to be (as the image gives the impression of it being made for it), and I wouldn't want to risk it anyway if it wasn't clear.  An original derivative of the mapping would solve the quandry.  I could possibly get away with a fair use rationale for it, but I know other people have made boards like this before and I haven't used any other fair use images on the article yet. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Then try Wikipedia:Graphic Lab - they should help you with creation of a vector graphics. Good luck!--Ioannes Pragensis 14:25, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perfect, thank you! --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help on a Knight's Tour image 

message: Hello! I'm looking for feedback and/or collaboration on Stuart Milner-Barry, a British chess player and World War II codebreaker. I know more about codebreaking than I do about chess, so I was hoping someone might be able to check or improve the article from the chess angle, or point me in the direction of additional sources that could be used. Cheers! — Matt Crypto 03:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All I have is a short blurb about his variation of the Nimzo-Indian defense in Oxford Companion to Chess.  Bubba73 (talk), 04:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for having a look. There's a bit his variation in Nimzo-Indian Defence (which is probably the best place to go into detail about the opening, rather than his biography). — Matt Crypto 16:02, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Stuart Milner-Barry]]

message: Hello and good luck with your project. Should I add Kotok-McCarthy (to which I added the project banner and portal) and Kaissa by User:Andreas Kaufmann (which I think you know about as it was on DYK recently) to the list of chess topics? Over time the articles might benefit from the project's expertise and access from the portal. Thank you either way and best wishes. -Susanlesch 09:47, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excuse me, to which list of chess topics? Best wishes to you, --Ioannes Pragensis 10:15, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry forgot the link. This one.-Susanlesch 10:43, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

text: MacHack (chess) may also be of interest. I am sorry I do not know programming and chess well enough to make very many contributions to it. I did write to the USCF last summer. They no longer had a record of the honorary membership but said it was entirely possible. If you think it would help I will look up that correspondence. Best wishes. -Susanlesch 21:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are welcome. Add them all. Thank you for the effort and Happy New Year.--Ioannes Pragensis 21:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Computer chess

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards 

message: Just an FYI, I'm working on bringing The Turk to featured article status.  As one of the most famous chess-playing machines, it falls within this project's purview and is currently at peer review.  Input and improvement would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks! --badlydrawnjeff talk 23:23, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article of interest peer review 

message: Hey all.  The Turk, an article that falls under the purview of this project, is currently a featured article candidate.  Please share your input if you can.  Thanks. --badlydrawnjeff talk 12:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that the article was promoted. Excellent! --ZeroOne (talk | @) 12:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevant FAC nomination 

message: Just saw that this was nominated for deletion, seems a bit of an orphan, so I figured it might escape people's attention.  Figured I'd ask people here to comment on the AfD.  FrozenPurpleCube 16:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The result was unanimous keep. --ZeroOne (talk | @) 12:50, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: keep as well. this is far from a problem page, let alone a delete! --Matthew_Yeager 1:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Advanced Chess]] 

message: User:Theandrewdotcom seems to have begun creating an article for each of the 500 ECO chess opening codes listed at List of chess openings. See his contributions list. So far he has created articles for 200 of the 500 codes.
I would question whether each of these codes are notable enough for their own article and suggest they should be merged into List of chess openings. I have left a comment to this effect on his talk page.
I think it might be appropriate to propose the deletion of each of these newly created articles but first seek the opinions and knowledge of participants of this project. Adambro 20:45, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oy, you're right.  I'm going to report this to an administrator, it's a real problem and obviously a script. FrozenPurpleCube 21:18, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is my opinion that we should not have an article for each of the 500 ECO codes.  However, that should be the subject of a discussion within this project.  Bubba73 (talk), 23:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Each of the 200 articles have been changed to redirect as part of a discussion of this issue at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents so it might be that this has been resolved. The user name in question has also been blocked due to violation of WP:U (Usernames that contain a domain or imply a web address). Adambro 12:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Hmm, I'm not convinced that these are good choices for redirects, but redirects are cheap, so I won't worry about it.  FrozenPurpleCube 22:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ECO chess openings 

message: I've started the Template Infobox chess player, here. It still needs a lot of work, so feel free... Skarioffszky 15:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, great work! :) Should the "Rating" title be changed into "FIDE rating" for disambiguation? --ZeroOne (talk | @) 12:43, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox chess player 

message: Hi, I'm just letting you folks know that I've not seen any action on these pages worth speaking about, so I decided to bite the bullet and nominate some of them for deletion.   I do hope this can lead to some improvement in these pages, and some serious action being taken.  I do not feel a wholesale deletion is necessary, but some work needs to be done.  FrozenPurpleCube 20:38, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chess openings nominated for deletion at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alekhine's defense, Modern variation, 4...Bg4]] 

message: I don't know if this is real or not, the article itself is a problem, but the lack of any kind of coverage besides some blog posts makes me wonder if it's real, and if so, if it's truly notable.  I've nominated it for deletion, so if anybody can contribute any sources or authority on the page, I'd appreciate it.  FrozenPurpleCube 21:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[United States Chess League]]