Talk:Killarney

message: I mean, surely something notable must have happened there? ````  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.73.12.169 (talk) 03:35, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''The Town With Absolutely No History?''' 

message: I'm not much into sport, so I can't be sure, but I am a bit suspicious of the list of Killarney famous people that seems to be growing rapidly.  Can anyone confirm if these people are worthy of inclusion. 
Also the writer and musician??--Dmol 14:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Famous people list.''' 

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with File:Cabarrus County nc seal.jpg

message: I have removed the following, for the reasons listed below.
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In Killarney the solid earth on which we tread is linked with McCarthy Mór, the Herberts and the Brownes. According to John Aubrey's Brief Lives William Herbert was a servant to the House of Worcester 'a mad, fighting young fellow' who was arrested at Bristowe and shot the sheriff. He escaped through the marsh and made his way to France. There he distinguished himself with such valour that he was allowed back to England with the highest recommendation. He soon rose through the ranks of nobility and married Anne Parr, sister of the sixth and last wife of King Henry the Eighth. He was granted estates in Pembroke and in Kerry. [9]
McCarthy Mór was an old Irish chieftain, an overlord of lands of indeterminate extent especially in the Killarney, Kenmare and South Kerry regions. Donald McCarthy Mór had come to favour of the Crown and was created Earl of Clancare in 1588. He was buried in Muckross Abbey, Killarney, in 1600. Valentine Browne was a surveyor of lands and not only paid handsomely for his work but granted six and a half thousand acres of land in Kenmare as a bonus. McCarthy Mór had more land than any but he was short of cash and when he needed it badly he turned to Valentine Browne, the gainfully employed man. Valentine obliged but not before having the mortgage secured on two carefully surveyed estates. McCarthy Mór's luck was out and the return he expected didn't materialize and he lost his two estates to Valentine Browne.
Time passed and at a later date one of the Herberts got married to the last direct descendant of McCarthy Mór. The young couple had a son but shortly after his father died. His mother sent the boy to England to be educated and there he developed a love of all things to do with the Herberts, his maternal grandfather in particular. But then tragedy struck and the young man was killed off a horse in Putney Heath in London. It then came to light that he had done the strangest thing for someone so young. He had made a Will. The Will when read bequeathed everything he was heir to to his maternal grandfather. In this way the McCarthys lost the last of their lands. Now both the lands in the possession of the Brownes and the Herberts made them the landowners of note in Killarney but times were tough, especially on the Herberts and the visit of Queen Victoria and investments that went awry brought them to a pitch that they had to sell their estate at Muckross.[10] In time too, with the new Land Acts coming into effect the Earls of Kenmare, as the Brownes had now become, sold their lands. Both the Herbert lands and the seat at Muckross House and the Earl of Kenmare lands and the seat at Killarney House were bought by the Bourne Vincents and the McShains,respectively. The new owners were generous Americans, philanthropists of a kind not known in Ireland, who gave their most valuable estates to the Irish State. They now form the most important part of Muckross Park.
.
The history of tourism must be viewed against the constraints to and opportunities for its development. The constraints were historically threefold: lack of money and leisure time; lack of transport and accommodation and lack of appreciation of landscape.
The last surprises many and for a hint of how long the lack of appreciation of landscape lasted we turn to Daniel Defoe, author of Robinson Crusoe in 1719, who advised his readers that the Lake District in England was 'a forbidding place, best avoided.' Professor E H Gombrich traces the beginning of appreciation of beauty of landscape to the painters and singles out Altendorfer as the first to paint it for its own sake. He traces the adoption of this new attitude to the Romantic Movement in England.[12]
Then there was the difficulty of travel to be overcome and before the coming of the railways only those who had horses of their own or who were near post houses could travel. In 1846 Isaac Slater found three hotels in Killarney and noted that each was a post house as well.[13]
Just after the coming of the railways both Carter Hall and James Fraser tell us their thoughts on travel. Carter Hall on his trip around the Ring of Kerry advised It is a common and wise custom of those who make this tour, and are not pressed for time, to hire the carriage at the hotel in Killarney and continue with it "all the way round." It is absolutely marvellous what labour these mountain bred horses can get through "thinking nothing" of thirty miles for days together or even fifty miles in a single day [14] James Fraser tells us The first object of inquiry with strangers arriving in Killarney is naturally the hotels, of these there are three in the town and four in the vicinity of the town
Such feelings and thoughts haven't changed with time and will never change. Carter Hall had already passed Waterville, half way round the Ring and noted the Hartopp Arms and what is now The Butler Arms Hotel with great delight; for they were the only comforts he had come across in his travels. The Ring of Kerry is a hundred miles long and with horses able to go but half of it in a day such accommodation along the Ring was vital for the hoteliers in Killarney who promote such trips. These are the opportunities of tourism developing in connected places at once. The second opportunity in Killarney was noted with joy by James Fraser the diversity of hotels available to the traveller, which he described with great care. The Railway Hotel opposite the Railway Station; the Kenmare Arms and Hibernia which are on the main street and immediately opposite the church... the Victoria which is about a mile to the west of the town on the shores of the Lower Lake; the Lake View which is about the same distance to the east of the town and also on the shore of theLower Lake; the Muckross about two and a half miles away and near the Muckross Lake and the Torc which occupies an elevated site about a mile and a half from the town on the hill which rises immediately over the Lake Hotel [15] O'Sullivans and the Innisfallen were named by Carter Hall rather than the Hibernia and Torc but there was a few years between their descriptions. For a summary of Tourism Today please see the section under that heading.
.............End of removed section ..........
There is some good info here, but there are major problems with it.  I've copied so that we can reach consensus regarding what should stay and how it should be presented.
My issues are...
*The wording is not encyclopedic.  
*Much of it reads like a personal essay. 
*Many of the statements are subjective comments.
*Large sections are about the famous families in Killarney's history, and not specifically about Killarney itself.  They deserve, or probably already have, their own articles.
*Quotes and paragraphs are given without context to the rest of the article.
--Dmol (talk) 11:09, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Kemiah, thanks for your feedback.  I am restarting the history section again, and will make use of much of your information.  Perhaps I should have explained that to you directly in more detail.  There is a lot of good info there, but mostly I felt the tone and layout needed work.  Still not sure if the mention of the other hotels on the Ring needs to be there, but we and other editors can decide that in the next few days. It's a great town Killarney, and I look forward to getting back there sometime. Bye for now,--Dmol (talk) 21:56, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The history section. 

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thread_title: File:Plaque commemorating the coming of the Railway to Killarney.JPG Nominated for Deletion

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