Talk:Balli Kombëtar

message: Today Balli Kombëtar (National Front) is a nationalist political party in Albania, so the suggested merging should proceed. Bardhylius (talk) 11:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually the articles must not merge. The Balist movement was a collaborationist reactionary organization which was working for the Axis cause. While the contemporary Balli Kombëtar in Albania is a right-orientated democratic party. Regards. --Revizionist (talk) 10:11, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

text: oppose the current Balli Kombetar has a different role in Albania than World War II.  Both articles need to be expanded.  The Balli Kombetar participated in administering (police, taxes, schools) areas which were outside Albania proper (Kosovo, Montenegro, Macedonia and Chameria) with the purpose of establishing a Greater Albania.  Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany assisted and indeed even facilitated the territorial changes to make this goal feasible; therefore, they were in collaboration. Menrunningpast (talk) 04:23, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

text: oppose per above. Constantine   ✍  17:02, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: This article is in desperate need of some neutrality. "The Communists did not care for their brothers and sisters in Kosovo"? "Yugoslavian masters"? "Balli Kombëtar heroes"? This sounds like Albanian fascist drivel.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.163.179.89 (talk • contribs) 
:Addressed some of the issues. Cheers, — Kedaditalk 20:28, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV Problem

message: Numbering at most 2,000 men, these anti-communists held off a partisan force of about 30,000 troops for two months
If nazis had such collaborator why they lost the war? Istoria1944 (talk) 08:14, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: The article is written from the Point of View of Albanian nationalism, and says all the lies of nationalists on the Balkans, as Greeks, Serbs, Macedonians do. That the communists drunk blood, and the goods but few Nationalists(just 2000 that could handle 30000 !!!!!!!!!!), cooperate just a... little
with the Axis for a while.
Bali Kombetar was a nazi collaborator. The nationalists in all the Balkans says exactly 
the same things, that they fought for a bigger state for a Great Greece/ Albania, Bulgaria because in the past they lost a part of their province and blah blah.
Istoria1944 (talk) 08:29, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: JUST PROPAGANDA ARTICLE

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: That is just communist propaganda surviving the Hoxha era. The Communists sold out Albania, the Balli Kombetar was in fact anti invader be they nazis or otherwise.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.219.163 (talk) 11:54, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balli KOmbetar was not a nazi sympathiser 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is no point keeping the articles independent. The National Front Party was founded by an Ballist so that party is practically modern day Balli Kombëtar. Also calling them collaborationist and Fascist is pointless since they fought the Italians and only allied with the Germans after the Communists sold them out by denouncing the conference of Mukje. Balli was not fascist in Nature since being Fascist and Collaborating with the Germans is two things. The Soviet union fought in the side of the Americans but they were not capitalist nor the USA Communist. 178.147.198.9 (talk) 13:30, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge the Articles and remove the Hoxha era propaganda 

message: Hello my granddad was a komandant that was bali kombetar i have a photo of him with hes army closes and its a very good picture and high devenition. Are you intressed to have the picture and put it on your text AlbanCeraja (talk) 16:16, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: If it meets WP:image use policy, upload it and link to it here, and reopen the request then Cannolis (talk) 21:13, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2022 

message: The following three sources were used to support the claim that Balli Kombëtar was antisemitic. 
1. http://dengalnaserben.weebly.com/history-1900-to-1949/1944-kosovo-ciami6-giving-birth-to-klauck
2. http://bustikova.faculty.asu.edu/lbs/papers/lb18.pdf
3. https://forward.com/news/500717/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-albania/
The first source was extracted from a blogpost showing an article written by Carl K. Savich (which has a dead link to the original source at it’s end). He makes unsourced claims about the US government supporting “Greater Albania” and that “Albanians played a MAJOR role in the Holocaust”. This source is very clearly WP:BIASED. It uses “America's recruitment of nazis and its effects on the Cold War” p.123 by Christopher Simpson as a source. Unfortunately, the statement that “The small mountain territory had relatively few Jews, so rela­tively few were captured and killed, but not for lack of trying by the Balli Kombetar organization, and the Albanian SS” is very strongly contradicted on the Holocaust in Albania article: [33] [34] [35] [36]. On the article we see that antisemitism is more applicable to the SS Skanderbeg alone than Balli Kombëtar.
The second source talks about right wing organizations in Europe today, this has nothing to do with Balli Kombëtar and also never mentions it being anti semitic, so why is it used here?
The third source attributes antisemitism to the SS Skanderbeg and not Balli Kombëtar. This source also conflicts the first source’s claim that Albanians played a major role in the holocaust.
The source states that “ At least one Jewish survivor stated the Mitrovica government refused to hand over lists of Jews in Albania proper to the Nazis”, so it actually further cements the point that the Balli Kombëtar was not anti semitic.
We have more sources talking about how Balli Kombëtar politicians saved Jews than the contrary. So even if some members of the Balli Kombëtar were anti semitic, we can clearly see that it was not a core ideology of the organization.
Antisemitism is an evil ideology, so it’s a big claim to make, and if we cannot find reliable scholarly evidence for this claim, we shouldn’t include it in the info-box.
Agrotqr (talk) 20:29, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Entirely support what you've written above. Savich isn't reliable in any case. Peacemaker67  (click to talk to me) 01:44, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

text: Not even that, Including the antiserbian sentiment and the anti greek sentiment both have no proper sources and the ones for the serb sources are literally either written by serbs or a pro serbian like diana Johnstone who claims in her book that there was no genocide on the bosniaks. For the greek no one even added sources. the sources shouldnt be by authors who literally have a bias including Diana Johnstone but it should be authors have credibility and not some one is been either a person known for radical views.  Gjondeda (talk) 21:20, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Dorril says "the small mountain territory had few Jews, so relatively few were captured and killed, though Christopher Simpson adds "not for lack of trying by the Balli Kombetar organisation, and the Albanian SS", which was implicated in a "series of anti-semitic purges that rounded upn about 800 people, the majority of whom were deported and murdered". See p. 358 here. Dorril is referencing this passage in Simpson's book. I haven't yet had a chance to check Bernd Jürgen Fischer, but will in the next few days. Peacemaker67  (click to talk to me) 07:40, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Well as I said at the start, this claim strongly contradicts the information from the Holocaust in Albania article. We can’t have conflicting information in two separate Wikipedia articles that speak about the same topic. The sources from the other article aren’t talking about insignificant acts of kindness by random members of the organization towards Jews, they are talking about it’s leaders who, despite collaborating with the German Empire, still decided to save the Jews in Albania. So either we remove the Antisemitism designation here or we find sufficient evidence that Antisemitism was in fact a core ideology of the Balli Kombëtar and completely revise the other article to show how there actually was no effort to save Jews by the Albanian leaders. Agrotqr (talk) 09:12, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources used on the Antisemitism designation