Talk:Juliusz Nowina-Sokolnicki

message: Dear 64.12.116.201,
The logbook that showed us
*"(cur) (last)  13:10, 13 August 2006 84.57.186.132 (Talk) 
*(cur) (last)  20:53, 12 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk) 
*(cur) (last)  20:53, 12 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk) 
*(cur) (last)  14:30, 12 August 2006 84.57.182.188 (Talk) 
*(cur) (last)  14:09, 12 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk) 
*(cur) (last)  09:52, 12 August 2006 84.57.182.188 (Talk) 
*(cur) (last)  00:29, 7 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk) 
*(cur) (last)  00:29, 7 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk) "
Says it all. People do not agree about Mister Nowina and his proper name, style, title, function or presidency. Editing in this pace, merely adding and removing the words " self styled", " so-called" and " bogus" indeed does not produce a Wiki article. The talk pages are there to find a solution but many of the interested partners are anonymus and do not care to discuss the matters before us.
The article as it now is not neutral. part of it is factual though. As it is the article is not growing. I find that dissapointing. As a Dutchman I am very fond of the " Free Poles" who helped to liberate my country and stood firm against the communist tyrants for so long. The problem is that, in the end, there were two Polish governments in London. Only the legitimite one could create or restore an Order of Knighthood. People will never agree on what was the real Polish government in exile!
Orders of Knighthood are institutions of the State and they are governed by law. Both Orders of Saint Stanislaus are trying to create myths. The words "ecclasiastically officialy" in describing the Polish Order, The word" Souvereign" in the former name of the Londen Order are both smokescreens. They are modeling themselves on the Order of Malta.
As it is I conclude that:
*We can not even start to write an article on Mister Nowina because nobody agrees about his name.
*There are four flourishing Orders of Saint Stanislaus, sadly enough they neither seem to respect nor acknowledge each other.
*The followers of the Orders do not respect the rule that Wikipedia should be neutral. They use it as an instrument for self promoting and defamating each other.
I propose to stick to the page describing the historic order with links to the four existing orders.A ban on anonymus contributors would also be helpfull.
Faithfully yours,
Robert Prummel Robert Prummel 21:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to get to write an article? 

message: Dear anonymous, your trollish behaviour is terrible. Mr. Nowina is NOT mentioned as president of Poland in exile anyvhere. For example, look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polish_heads_of_state_%281918%E2%80%93present%29, here http://rulers.org/rulp2.html#poland, here http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Poland.htm#exile, and http://www.president.pl/x.node?id=436. Pretty nice - Mr. Nowina is NOT mentioned anywhere!
 P.S. I hope you not delete this post.Yopie 20:45, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  For anonymous spammer 

message: You have a lot of nerve claiming anyone else's behavior as being "trollish" considering your own consistently trollish behavior.  Takes one to know one I guess.  The 10 sources listed above in this section possess infinitely more scholastic accuracy than quoting notoriously inaccurate wiki-lists and biased web sites. Obviously there will never be a consensus on President Nowina-Sokolnicki and his place in history since there is so much obvious bias, but your trollish behavior certainly does not help.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.153.245 (talk) 17:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yopie & His Trollish Behavior  

message: I do not see how any sensible person can accuse Yopie of trollish behaviour. On the contrary it is clear that he is merely attempting to ensure that accurate information is conveyed. Mr. Sokolnicki (who calls himself "Count" despite no grant of a title to his branch of the Sokolnicki family) has never been recognised as "President".  If one travels to the Royal Castle in Warsaw one can view the "Government in Exile room" which features portraits of all of the Polish Presidents in Exile. All of the presidents are featured. There is no portrait of Sokolnicki and he is not mentioned anywhere.
The books you quote are written by people who are extremely biased, some of whom hold high rank in Sokolnicki's self-styled Order of St. Stanislas. They are not acceptable sources to cite. In rebuttal I quote two official statements from the Polish Government taken from an essay on this subject (available here: http://www.geocities.com/polishnobles/Sokolnicki.html ):
"On 27 September 1994, Britain’s main Polish daily, Dziennik Polski, published the following statement, in Polish, from Lech Walesa's press spokesman: 
"Article 11 of Bill 1 of 25 October 1991, while giving the President and Minister of Defence of the Polish Republic the power and obligation to promote to military [knightly] rank, also recognises this power as being bestowed by Authority of the Polish Republic up to 22 December 1990. 
"The phrase ‘the Authority of the Polish Republic’ should be understood to mean the organs of the state institutions abroad [i.e. in London] based on the Polish Constitution of 23 April 1935. It therefore recognises as Presidents of the Polish Republic General Boleslaw Winiawe-Dlugoszowski, Wladyslaw Rackiewicz, August Zaleski, Stanislaw Ostrowski, Edward Raczynski, Kazimierz Sabbat, and Ryszard Kaczorowski, as well as the state organs appointed by them. ‘According to the Constitution of 23 April 1935 and historical fact they are the successors of President Ignacy Moscicki. 
"The last mentioned, President Ryszard Kaczorowski, acknowledges that, following free elections in Poland and the election of the President [Walesa] in 1990, the activities of the President-in-Exile terminated when he handed the insignia of the Second Polish Republic to President Lech Walesa. 
"With this in mind, it should be stated that Mr. Juliusz Nowina-Sokolnicki did not posess the authority of the Polish Republic and therefore his activities purporting to be actions of the state (as a result of calling himself President-in-Exile) cannot be honoured, and according to Article 11 of Bill 1, the ranks granted by him are not 
recognised. 
(signed) Andrzej Drzycimski 
State Secretary 
Press Spokesman for the President of the Polish Republic (Walesa)" 
And in a letter from the Vice-Consul of the Polish Embassy in Canada to the author of the web site essay:
“Dear Sir, 
"Further to your letter of May 30th last, I wish to advise you that Mr. Juliusz Nowina Sokolnicki has never been a legitimate Polish President in Exile.  His position has never been recognised either formerly by the Polish Government in Exile or currently by the Polish Government in Warsaw.  Therefore, his activities as a Polish President in Exile has [sic] never been honoured. 
"Furthermore, by virtue of the statement of Mr. Andrzej Drzycimski - secretary of state, former spokesman to the Polish President Lech Walesa, published in June 1994, any awards, medals title or ranks granted by Mr. J. Nowina Sokolnici (i.e. the Order of St. Stanislaw mentioned in your letter) are not officially recognised by the Polish 
authorities. 
Sincerely yours, 
(signed) 
Andrzej K. Krezel 
Vice Consul.” "
I think this settles the matter once and for all.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sokolnickibogus (talk • contribs) 12:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rebutting pro-Sokolnicki propaganda 

message: So, books are biased, but internet postings are correct?  Not the real world.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.177 (talk) 21:06, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  So much for balance and neutrality 

message: "Sokolnickibogus" a name that just exudes objectivity and the promise of a balanced and neutral presentation. Talk about "trollish behavior."  No wonder universities tell their students Wikipedia cannot be referenced in research papers because nothing is accurate.  Just leave the article tagged as "disputed" and have done with it since there is zero agreement on the subject.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.177 (talk) 19:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war 

message: :File:London Nov2007 3.JPG
Chev. Juliusz count Nowina-Sokolnicki - right.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by ETFTE (talk • contribs) 09:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grand Master of the Order of Saint Stanislaus Chev. Juliusz Nowina-Sokolnicki 

message: It might be of interest to know that the Polish Ambassador in Ankara during WW II was also called Sokolnicki. After the war, when the Communist took Power,he continued to live in Ankara, where he died in the 197ties. He was a Polish patriot that had excellent contacts with RP Gov in London. i got this Information during  my time as diplomat in Ankara from a person that was close to Ambassador Sokolnicki. So it seems rather that somebody must play a dirty trick. René Henri Pasche, Gümligen near Bern, Switzerland.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.247.250.9 (talk) 08:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sokolnicki, Polish Ambassador dring Ww Ii in Ankara, Turkey