Talk:Kyiv/naming/Archive 5

message: I've' just learned new Ukrainian word '????', thought for a second and then realized, because it referred to a movie, must be borrowed from english action. Apparently russians got ahead on this one by loan word '????'. Ukrainian version didn't want to be sound anywhere close like it was reborroewd from russian. Good for them. 
I think it should be more ukrainian words in english language. Words which doesn't sound anything like russian, something like cherevichky would be a perfect example or may be Nimechina instead of Germany.  Sounds much better then Kyiv. Imprevu 19:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it's '????' in Russia, which is pronounced in precisely the same way as Ukrainian '????'. Both are the closest you can get to the phonetic transcription of 'action' using Cyrillic alphabet. int19h 22:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ukrainian Journal. Kiev, Kyiv or simple thoughts on Ukrainian affairs by nonpartisan

message: On the point about those who "take exception", could it be stated that English speakers' continued use of the spelling "Kiev" is not considered politically motivated?
Might also be relevant to mention that unlike English speakers, Russian speakers around the world are not being urged to Ukrainianize the way they write the city's name in their native language (→ "?????" or "????" "????"). On the contrary the Ukrainian government continues to use the spelling "????" in its own Russian-language publications, without Ukrainianization.
* ???? ????????? ? ????, from the President's website. 
* ????? ???? – ??????? ???????, from the City administration. 
* "??????? ??????????? – ????", Embassy of Ukraine in Moscow. 
-- Abut 18:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but what do you mean by that, you want Russians to use the spelling ?????? A fat chance that is going to happen...Not only is Ukraine trying to mutilate the English langauge, but now you want have it do the same to Russian?--Kuban Cossack 21:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An encyclopedia is not about wanting or not wanting, it's about presenting the facts - in this case that English speakers are actively being urged to Ukrainianize their spelling and pronunciation while Russian speakers, AFAIK, are not. -- Abut 15:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

text:  I don't see reasons to debate this. All you need is to travel over Odessa -> Kyiv autobahn and see how many different spelling of Kyiv in English language are used on road signs (installed officially). --TAG 15:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Russia is NEVER going to change the spelling of Kiev.  Neither is Poland (Kijow). And, Kuban Cossack, what's up with the attacks on Ukraine about mutilating other languages? What's the basis for that statement? — Alex (T|C|E) 05:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

text: This also appears to be a sock; only edits are to this talk page and attempts to get the page protected. Also created a couple hours ago. The sock puppeteer is one to tell someone to grow up. Parsecboy 15:16, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ???? still Russian name 

message: Since I've seen some people use Google as a source for the Kiev-Kyiv debate, I'm going to use it again.  Here's what happens when you go all the way to the end of the search:  Kiev returns one less result than Kyiv.  This is for those that want to use Google as a reason for this article to stay with the "Kiev" name. — Alex (T|C|E) 03:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This might also mean that there are over 1,000 results for Kyiv, and 999 results for Kiev, making previous claims false. — Alex (T|C|E) 03:46, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Does the search count pages written by native English speakers  only? -- Abut 13:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is Google you're talking about.  And if you're going to go by what native English speakers have to say, then Kyiv is the official spelling in the United States. — Alex (T|C|E) 02:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Does the same go for Bombay? — Alex (T|C|E) 06:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about Bombay. I know about WP:NC(UE) which says: "If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article". Looking at the media usage is the best and most accurate way to find which name is most common. --Irpen 06:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, I guess I should stop the debate. It is fairly pointless anyway, and the usage might change in the future. — Alex (T|C|E) 06:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also want to point out that Alex made a mistake with his interpretation of "all the way to the end of the search".  The links he provided above show "Results 991 - 999 of about 39,900,000 for Kiev" and "Results 991 - 1000 of about 5,650,000 for Kyiv".  The difference is over 34 million hits, not just one.  This is not to mention that Irpen raised a valid point about the results including only native English-language sources, and that google search should not be used as the main resource to resolve this kind of problems.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And I also want to point out the regrettable lack of interest of so many contributors to this talk towards any improvement of the article itself. 75% of the archives is the discussion about the name. If only some of the concerned about the renaming showed a slightest interest in improving this article's content! Of all the Ukrainian articles this is one of the better ones and could have been brought to FA if there was sufficient interest in improving it. The article on Ukrainian capital carrying a prestigious "Featured" label would raise the profile of the good coverage of Ukraine in WP incomparably greater much more than this endless whining about English speakers' reluctance to accept neologisms some are trying to impose on them. --Irpen 19:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kiev-Kyiv:  What Google has to say