Talk:Claudia Ciesla/Archive 1

message: The following text is a copypaste (except that I bulleted lists and dedacted addresses, phone numbers and email addresses) of a post to my talk page. I thought it more appropiate to be posted here. --Geniac 13:13, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claudia Ciesla - more sources needed 

message: This article or section is written like an advertisement.
People frequently add pages to Wikipedia without considering whether the topic is really notable enough to go into an encyclopedia. Nobody knows this woman in Germany or in the rest of the World!! Wikipedia already has a lot of useless articles, but with such articles, Wikipedia, will be a commercial platform of unknown people, who want to make money from it. This article is just linkspamming WP:NOT#LINK 84.63.120.104  —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 22:06, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Adding Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Claudia Ciesla 
The really Official Oktoberfest Web-Site you can find here: http://www.muenchen.de/Tourismus/Oktoberfest/89552/index.html and nobody knows claudia ciesla.
I´m sure, that claudia have a lots of private friends (hahahaha) but that is unimportant for an encyclopedia. In the German Wikipedia the articel is been deleted too. http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Claudia_Ciesla&action=edit Wiki-nightmare  —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 21:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles not satisfying the notability guidelines of wikipedia 

message: There is nothing about Claudia Ciesla or the sites that she appears in, that qualifies as pornography.  So she started doing topless shots in Matador, how many people don't do this and need the money.  Describe pornography: It is usually graphic depictions of sex acts on film, Claudia has not partaken in that.  She has done no worse than a lot of mainstream celebrities in America like Paris Hilton or Pam Anderson who have actually had sex videos shown on the internet, whether intentional or not, and I hear no talk of censuring them.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.92.207.222 (talk) 02:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't even need to upload them; just go ahead and cite them using one of these templates.  --Haemo 05:25, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

text: IMHO delete: Wikipedia isn't a news outlet, and there's no sense in keeping an article because she might become notable. If she becomes notable, great - create the article then! 145.253.2.232 05:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Afd was abortive and closed by Wikipedia Administrator Haemo. Your anew attempt was declined by Wikipedia Administrator Garion96. Your second anew attempt was undone because you are marking a Wikipedia Administrator's decision as "vandalism by Garion96".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.193.2 (talk) 08:23, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact is it was for a long time after the close of the 1. nomination period. Now it is the 2. nomination! I looked back in the Articles for deletion archives and saw that the 1. nomination was closed because two anonymous Users CClaudia and Wiki-nightmare prepared to take legal action. Users who make legal threats will typically be blocked on Wikipedia. No legal threats. As I see it, the viable options are: 1.)We re-open the nomination for deletion (2. nomination) or 2.)We need verifiably-sources that the Articel is notable Wikipedia:Notability If she is notable, great - we keep the article then! IMHO she is non-notable by Wikipedia standards. 145.253.2.235 09:23, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fact is that this German user writes the same way ("Article doesn´t survived afd"!) and removed Claudia Ciesla from birthplace article Loskau (he decided NOT NOTABLE), as well as it did Wiki-Nightmare before. He vandalized this article and even declares statements of Wikipedia Administrators as vandalism, as well as it did Wiki-Nightmare alias Thedarkside alias User:145.253.2.235 + other fake accounts many times before. This user is obviously acting in bad faith with personal animus.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.193.2 (talk) 11:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: The unbelievable fact ist, that the users kadenpress, CClaudia, CClaudia Model and many many anonymous ip´s (maybe all are the same persons) starts vendetta agains me because i have nominated the articel "claudia ciesla" for delation. Please reade the articel for delation diskussion and you know that this persons slander against me and all persons that votet the articel for delation too.This is his tactic in his quest to defame me, you and all the others who thinking that the article should be delated!! See the german diskussion for delation: Articles for deletion/Claudia Ciesla - German same shit different bucket! If you nominated the article for delation i will vote DELATION Wiki-nightmare 01:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Sock puppetry: If a person is found to be using multiple accounts in violation of this policy, the sock puppet accounts should be blocked indefinitely. - Vandalism, even edits made in bad faith, is violating Wikipedia Rules. Users who vandalize Wikipedia repeatedly, may be blocked.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.193.2 (talk) 23:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Sources and references are verified, see above and former discussion. Notability was by the mayority of users and Wikipedia moderators determined. All your arguments by your sockpuppet were invalidated. Your repeatedly vandalizing is not helpful. Where there's bad faith, there's no way.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.193.2 (talk) 13:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keep Claudia Ciesla 

message: This suggestion doesn't sufficiently explain the importance or significance of the subject. There are many models out there who are noted and have accomplished more than Ciesla but are not on Wikipedia. Ciesla is not a noted person and totally unknown even in Europe. Not worthy for Wikipedia. If you keep Ciesla then you need to accept every article about unknown models. Also, a lot of the sources mentioned are not reputable and are not true. --Pinktucano 12:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If she became a major star in the US, great - we keep and create the article then! But at this moment she isn´t a major star!! Wiki-nightmare 22:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DELETE CLAUDIA CIESLA 

message: @Wikipedia Administrators: It seem to be evident that a certain user from Germany, is using sock puppetry vandalising this talk page and this article. See former comments. Pls. protect this talkpage against sock puppetry and vandalism.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.51.174.33 (talk) 02:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Go to an Wiki-Admin and report it there. The Talk-Page isn´t the right Place for your own "defamation and lie" Comments! When you haven´t any good Arguments why we should keep this Articel - PLEASE shut up and keep quiet!!! Please for the next time sign your Comments by typing four tildes  ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment!! W:H Thank you! Wiki-nightmare 18:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PROTECT THIS TALK PAGE AGAINST SOCK PUPPETRY 

message: Okay, I found reference by Claudia Ciesla from t-online. so i feel free to add this: http://onunterhaltung.t-online.de/c/55/20/09/5520092,pt=self,si=1.html
German: "Claudia aus Bamberg (Foto: Privat)
Claudia aus Bamberg darf auch nicht Miss T-Online werden: Auch von ihr sind Nacktfotos aufgetaucht. (Foto: Privat)"
english: Claudia from Bamberg should not "Miss T-Online": She has appeared nude for a photo shoot.
Wiki-nightmare 05:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: German "Nacktfotos" = means nude photos and topless means in German = "oben ohne Fotos" and the stump of an Articel say: "...von ihr sind Nacktfotos aufgetaucht..." that means: "...she published nude fotos..." ;) Wiki-nightmare 18:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not notable, but: 

message: Please stop edit warring over this.  Discuss it on the talk page, or I will be forced to get this article protected.  --Haemo 00:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Stop edit warring

message: I deleted the links of her "Offical MySpace Profil" and her "Offical Video Profil" because if somebody is interested in that, so he can find the information on her Offical Webpage unter the button Links. I mean it´s non-notabel for the Articel. Then I can see   1 , that it’s not clear what her offical webpage is:
www.cclaudia.com or www.cclaudia.net - may be the best way is to accept her international webpage 2 because this webpage is in english. Then i add to the "Beach Baby Constance-Reference" that it´s just a internet soap not a TV-Soap. Then i deleted the References about "Model Mayhem profile" because the Articel is saying that she was "Football/Soccer Worldcup Girl 2006" but unter the "Model Mayhem profile" we can´t see a verifiably source. (it´s the same copy&past text that we can find on her Offical Webpage). if somebody is interested in her "Model Mayhem profile" he can find it at her Offical Webpage unter the button Links.
Then the Article says that Dr. Bruckner is one of Germany's best known doctors - but i cant´t find Dr. Bruckner in the German or English Wiki... Wiki-nightmare 11:58, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article say that he is from "Nuremberg" you say he is from Berlin. How many Dr. Bruckner did Germany have?? Maybe your Dr. Bruckner from Berlin is not the same!! Please searche for a verifiable source.  Thank you! Wiki-nightmare 11:54, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If i searche in google, then i find "OP ruft  Dr. Bruckner - Die besten Ärzte Deutschlands" 1 but it´s just a german TV-Show and the german artist de:Bernhard Schir is playing the Part of an Dr. Thomas Bruckner... so we can see that google or yahoo doesn´t know everything... Wiki-nightmare 12:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Again, Wiki-Nightmare, you are incorrect about Claudia's article about her winning Miss Autotuning Supergirl being in BILD Newspaper.  Feel free to email me and I will send you the article.  My email address is ringannouncer2 (at) yahoo.com.  --TommyNoe 00:48, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: why you would like to sending me the article??? why you cannot adding your information in the Article??? if I'm wrong and you have right, that isn´t any problem for me! post your secrets here that everybody can read your source! Wiki-nightmare 01:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

text: please post your articles here - is the easiest way - because i`m not really interested in an email friendship Wiki-nightmare 03:06, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: I deleted this: "Her first major Internet publication[citation needed] was in BrianX magazine in early 2005.[3]" because of this: "All unsourced and poorly sourced contentious material about living persons should be removed from articles and talk pages immediately." Thank you! WP:CS#When_adding_material_to_the_biography_of_a_living_person Wiki-nightmare 11:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  citation needed 

message: @Wikipedia Admins: In the former AFD of Claudia Ciesla it was noticed by some users that the user Wiki-Nightmare has used several sock puppets to vandalise the article of Claudia Ciesla and to have his opinion assured about his frequent and continuous requests of deletion of this article. As well in the talk page of Claudia Ciesla this was noticed. This user is suspected to work with many fake-accounts  which is sock puppetry. The suspected sock puppets are: Wiki-nightmare alias 
Pinktucano alias 84.176.226.134 alias 84.176.207.2 alias 84.58.229.82 alias 84.58.27.140 alias 84.59.35.232 alias 84.57.146.203 alias 84.149.130.227 alias 84.63.120.104 alias 84.63.120.73 alias 145.253.2.232 alias 145.253.2.236 alias 145.253.2.235.
Please also check this user for several times violating Wikipedia Rules due to vandalism and comments in bad faith. Also deleting and editing other users comments and showing aggressive behavior, see his exclamation "shut up and keep quiet" in Claudia Ciesla talk page, para. PROTECT THIS TALK PAGE AGAINST SOCK PUPPETRY. He made attacks and bad faith comments and untrue accusations. - In the former AFD it was detected by some users - that he vandalised the article of CClauda probably 20 times. Pls see former AFD. On 4 Nov. 2007 Wiki-nightmare used tag (Protection IP-Vandalism) to unprotected talk page of Claudia Ciesla. His sock puppet accounts all have edited the article, AFD and talkpage in relation to Claudia Ciesla and all give extensive commentary when discussing matters. They are making similar edits over and over. Also please see similarities in edit history. There are occassions where one stops editing and another starts. All making the same kinds of edits regarding Claudia Ciesla. It should be taken into account, that the user seems to be a single purpose user with regards to deletion of this article. His only contribution is about deletion of this article and deletion of the name of Claudia Cisla on the article of her polish city. http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=Wiki-nightmare&site=en.wikipedia.org -  also see an edit war about a T-Online Model Contest, it was said in User talk:Haemo, "it seems like a totally non-notable incident" - but about this was made an edit war by Wiki-Nightmare. - The edit and comment style is sufficiently similar which concludes beeing the user Wiki-Nightmare. All seem to have same level of English language knowledge. All are detected to be from German ID`s. There is no way to assume good faith, when the only possible motive of Wiki-Nightmare it the deletion and to remove evidence of Claudia Ciesla in English Wikipedia.--Kadenpress 14:50, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want a checkuser, file a request for checkuser at the appropriate venue.  Not all Wikipedia admins, nor even most, have checkuser and there are serious privacy concerns related, so we have a process.  Please detail your evidence on a particular case.  --Haemo 20:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed.  I'm liable to just request a checkuser on everyone to stop this nonsense.  It would probably be better if everyone just stopped instead.  --Haemo 21:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Stop discussion about this 2 para`s and if necessary, a Wiki-Admin should decide if the para`s should be removed, not Wiki-Nightmare. In my opinion the para`s should be kept visible because this is not irrelevant. It helps other users to find an objective opinion about this article. As there is or was an attempt by a single porpose user with manipulating comments in bad faith - not to improve the article, but just to delete it. --Kadenpress 22:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't be afraid! If we removed this para`s everyone that is interested can find every comment (since this article exists) via the article's talk page history. Only in more serious cases by personal attacks (incivility) and legal threats the edit history can be completely removed out per the Wikipedia policy´s. So it is allowed that every editor (maybe not an anonymous editor) can delet irrelevant discussion´s para´s and others' comments and there are no extra decision´s by an admin necessary in this case. per the Wikipedia editing comments policy´s I'm well aware of the major problem that when I should delete this para´s that we have an new edit warring and I am not really interested in an new edit warring with you and your partner. We should return to the major problems (sources and so on) of the article. So if an neutral Wikipedian read this or maybe an neutral Admin - please removed this Points per  Article talk page deletion policy. I’m fine with it. Thank you! Wiki-nightmare 19:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Did you mean the request to checkuser or the Article Claudia Ciesla?? Wiki-nightmare 19:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely bewildering comment. I suppose he meant the article. Easy to understand why this article stays in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and Turkish Wikipedia. The article is by many experienced wikipedians proven notable, all sources are verified. This lady does have a tremendous fanbase worldwide and this lady is featured and published in Europes bigges newspaper Bild and many other newsmedia many times. I hope I could answer your question.--LexGabini 10:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

text: @User Pearlmango: Same arguments as before - disproved
User is claiming that he knows that nobody is talking about her. Same as before when he says he knows that "nobody knows her". User does not show reliable statistic sources. Imaginary statement 
Same strange prevaricating - same false arguments - same style of writing - same user. --Kadenpress 00:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

text: self-published. This press release does not cite any reliable sources which attest to the notability of the Claudia Ciesla erotic star calender matter. And on this Webpage everybody can publish his own press release´s for free 1 it is an open Online-PR-Service. The notability of this open Online-PR-Service can not verified by an reliable source too. I mean the press release said that Claudia published her calender on starkalender.de but there you can find 1 some Cats too. (maybe the "Whiskas Edition" can be notabel because of Whiskas)I mean the notability of an calender should be if an famous photographer or an notability Magazine like Cosmopolitan or like Playboy published an calender with the subject Claudia Ciesla. Wiki-nightmare 21:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is wrong and ignorant. Not self-published. The publisher is Gessulat-Medien-GmbH 1. The owner of this publishing company is Mr. Stefan Gessulat. He is a very well known, highly prestigious and credible person in German and European media. He worked for many years as director for German Playboy and other well-established magazines. This press release is signed by: Stefan Gessulat, Tel. 089 411 511 16, mail@gessulat.com. Therefore reliable sources and notability  is clear. The further demagogic way of this comment is known by this user. Don`t underestimate and don`t displease the intelligence of other wikipedians.--LexGabini 10:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The open press release is for advertising the calender. Adverts are not reliable. -- 172.173.239.114 16:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

text: @Kadenpress please do not make personal attacks by other users. Or can you read an "child pornographie"-Comment or an "credit card defraud"-comment??? We should delete this Comment of Kadenpress per Wikipedia editing comments policy and personal attacks policy. Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#Editing_comments, Wikipedia:No personal attacks Thank you Wiki-nightmare 00:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This was not a personal attack, but an information against those fake, fabricated or spoofed IP addresses made by the JAP anonymizer service. This information and warning is made by German Police. The German police urges Europeanwide to ban those ID anonymity, says (citation) LKA-Speaker Rudolf Gaspary. So not at all a personal attack against you Mr. Wiki-Nightmare, but it is very interesting that you feel addressed. Also I would like to inform that Ms. Ciesla suspects in a statement of her in the former AFD, that a certain user beeing involved in a hunting and stalkering action against her. Due to German law (German criminal code  § 241 b) stalkering and psycho terror is a crime and can be punished up to 3 years of jail in Germany.--Kadenpress 01:47, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: of course it was an personal attack because you said that this IP´s were often used by criminals. So you said that this User can be "born" as criminal. But where you can see an criminal offense?? Posting that "Adverts are not reliable" can´t be criminal... That you have an adverse opinion about his "Adverts are not reliable" that ist really okay. But please don´t make other Users who are interessted in this diskussion to criminals. That is nonserious! Wiki-nightmare  —Preceding comment was added at 02:19, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What you said is untrue! It was said: These kind of spoofed ID`s (Web Spoofing 2 ) are highly suspected by police because often used by criminals like child pornographie, credit card defraud, or other abuse.The problem between you and Ms. Ciesla is apparently. If you have the courage, step out of your anonymity and give your real name and address to a Wiki-Admin or straight to Ms. Ciesla. So you both can go to a German court to settle your problems. But please do not use Wikipedia as platform for your hate against Ms. Ciesla.--Kadenpress 03:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mr Kadenpress: if you have really interessted at this Points feel free to use my Talkpage User Talk:wiki-nightmare or the 172.173.239.114TalkPage - the Subject Talk isn´t the right Place therefore! see former discussion Talk:Claudia_Ciesla#Stop_Irrelevant_discussion and see the talk page guidelines Wiki-nightmare 03:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Everybody who reads this talkpage should be informed about your continual efforts to delete this article and how you are doing this. Again I ask you to give your real identity to settle your problems with Ms. Ciesla by German court, not abusing Wikipedia. Pls. also see US Cyberstalking Law: "Whoever [...] utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet [...] without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person [...] who receives the communications [...] shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."--Kadenpress 03:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: @Kadenpress: bevore doing a Hexenjagd read this    -- 172.158.194.109 10:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I have never made legal threats against you! Unsuccessful distortion of facts. If you have a clear conscience and good faith, why are you not giving your real identity? Why are you afraid of  action of Ms. Ciesla? --Kadenpress 04:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Untrue statement!!  I was talking to Mr. Gessulat. No Mr. Pearlmango or other person contacted Mr. Gessulat about this. Emails and phones to Gessulat Media Publishing house are perfectly working.--Kadenpress 00:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

text: That's not unexpected that an Company (Gessulat-Medien-GmbH) make some press releases about her advertising produkt. The notability at this subject means which reliable sources (mainstream press) cites this press releases??  Read the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons That Stefan Gessulat was an former chef of the Playboy is notabel for an articel about Stefan Gessulat himself but not for an article about the subject Claudia. Im Germany we have a Phrase about such things "Nichts ist so erfolgreich, wie sich im Ruhm von anderen zu sonnen" that means in 
english: "Nothing succeeds like the success by other people". Wiki-nightmare 22:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request to checkuser Wiki-Nightmare for several violating Wikipedia rules 

message: Should we really keep the article talk page, para. "PROTECT THIS TALK PAGE AGAINST SOCK PUPPETRY" and "Request to checkuser Wiki-Nightmare for several violating Wikipedia rules"?? I mean the Wiki-Standards said: Keep on topic Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#How_to_use_article_talk_pages ... "Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal." I mean we should removal this Points because it´s not relevant to improving the article!! Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#Editing_comments If somebody is interested in an discussion about this Points he should use my talk-Page, the Pinktucanos talk-Page or the talk-Page of Kadenpress! If you don't object than we (or an Admin) should removal this Points! per the Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines Thank you Wiki-nightmare 21:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I'm liable to just request a checkuser on everyone to stop this nonsense.  It would probably be better if everyone just stopped instead.  --Haemo 21:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Stop discussion about this 2 para`s and if necessary, a Wiki-Admin should decide if the para`s should be removed, not Wiki-Nightmare. In my opinion the para`s should be kept visible because this is not irrelevant. It helps other users to find an objective opinion about this article. As there is or was an attempt by a single porpose user with manipulating comments in bad faith - not to improve the article, but just to delete it. --Kadenpress 22:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't be afraid! If we removed this para`s everyone that is interested can find every comment (since this article exists) via the article's talk page history. Only in more serious cases by personal attacks (incivility) and legal threats the edit history can be completely removed out per the Wikipedia policy´s. So it is allowed that every editor (maybe not an anonymous editor) can delet irrelevant discussion´s para´s and others' comments and there are no extra decision´s by an admin necessary in this case. per the Wikipedia editing comments policy´s I'm well aware of the major problem that when I should delete this para´s that we have an new edit warring and I am not really interested in an new edit warring with you and your partner. We should return to the major problems (sources and so on) of the article. So if an neutral Wikipedian read this or maybe an neutral Admin - please removed this Points per  Article talk page deletion policy. I’m fine with it. Thank you! Wiki-nightmare 19:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Stop Irrelevant discussion

message: I don't understand how this article can stay in Wikipedia: the subject seems not notable , sources are lacking , it appears insignificant to Wikipedia standards..why is it here?? --Pearlmango 19:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you mean the request to checkuser or the Article Claudia Ciesla?? Wiki-nightmare 19:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely bewildering comment. I suppose he meant the article. Easy to understand why this article stays in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and Turkish Wikipedia. The article is by many experienced wikipedians proven notable, all sources are verified. This lady does have a tremendous fanbase worldwide and this lady is featured and published in Europes bigges newspaper Bild and many other newsmedia many times. I hope I could answer your question.--LexGabini 10:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

text: @User Pearlmango: Same arguments as before - disproved
User is claiming that he knows that nobody is talking about her. Same as before when he says he knows that "nobody knows her". User does not show reliable statistic sources. Imaginary statement 
Same strange prevaricating - same false arguments - same style of writing - same user. --Kadenpress 00:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Poorly Sourced

message: press release promoting her calender  via GoogleNewsDe  -- Cherubino 20:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: self-published. This press release does not cite any reliable sources which attest to the notability of the Claudia Ciesla erotic star calender matter. And on this Webpage everybody can publish his own press release´s for free 1 it is an open Online-PR-Service. The notability of this open Online-PR-Service can not verified by an reliable source too. I mean the press release said that Claudia published her calender on starkalender.de but there you can find 1 some Cats too. (maybe the "Whiskas Edition" can be notabel because of Whiskas)I mean the notability of an calender should be if an famous photographer or an notability Magazine like Cosmopolitan or like Playboy published an calender with the subject Claudia Ciesla. Wiki-nightmare 21:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is wrong and ignorant. Not self-published. The publisher is Gessulat-Medien-GmbH 1. The owner of this publishing company is Mr. Stefan Gessulat. He is a very well known, highly prestigious and credible person in German and European media. He worked for many years as director for German Playboy and other well-established magazines. This press release is signed by: Stefan Gessulat, Tel. 089 411 511 16, mail@gessulat.com. Therefore reliable sources and notability  is clear. The further demagogic way of this comment is known by this user. Don`t underestimate and don`t displease the intelligence of other wikipedians.--LexGabini 10:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The open press release is for advertising the calender. Adverts are not reliable. -- 172.173.239.114 16:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

text: @Kadenpress please do not make personal attacks by other users. Or can you read an "child pornographie"-Comment or an "credit card defraud"-comment??? We should delete this Comment of Kadenpress per Wikipedia editing comments policy and personal attacks policy. Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#Editing_comments, Wikipedia:No personal attacks Thank you Wiki-nightmare 00:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This was not a personal attack, but an information against those fake, fabricated or spoofed IP addresses made by the JAP anonymizer service. This information and warning is made by German Police. The German police urges Europeanwide to ban those ID anonymity, says (citation) LKA-Speaker Rudolf Gaspary. So not at all a personal attack against you Mr. Wiki-Nightmare, but it is very interesting that you feel addressed. Also I would like to inform that Ms. Ciesla suspects in a statement of her in the former AFD, that a certain user beeing involved in a hunting and stalkering action against her. Due to German law (German criminal code  § 241 b) stalkering and psycho terror is a crime and can be punished up to 3 years of jail in Germany.--Kadenpress 01:47, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: of course it was an personal attack because you said that this IP´s were often used by criminals. So you said that this User can be "born" as criminal. But where you can see an criminal offense?? Posting that "Adverts are not reliable" can´t be criminal... That you have an adverse opinion about his "Adverts are not reliable" that ist really okay. But please don´t make other Users who are interessted in this diskussion to criminals. That is nonserious! Wiki-nightmare  —Preceding comment was added at 02:19, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What you said is untrue! It was said: These kind of spoofed ID`s (Web Spoofing 2 ) are highly suspected by police because often used by criminals like child pornographie, credit card defraud, or other abuse.The problem between you and Ms. Ciesla is apparently. If you have the courage, step out of your anonymity and give your real name and address to a Wiki-Admin or straight to Ms. Ciesla. So you both can go to a German court to settle your problems. But please do not use Wikipedia as platform for your hate against Ms. Ciesla.--Kadenpress 03:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mr Kadenpress: if you have really interessted at this Points feel free to use my Talkpage User Talk:wiki-nightmare or the 172.173.239.114TalkPage - the Subject Talk isn´t the right Place therefore! see former discussion Talk:Claudia_Ciesla#Stop_Irrelevant_discussion and see the talk page guidelines Wiki-nightmare 03:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Everybody who reads this talkpage should be informed about your continual efforts to delete this article and how you are doing this. Again I ask you to give your real identity to settle your problems with Ms. Ciesla by German court, not abusing Wikipedia. Pls. also see US Cyberstalking Law: "Whoever [...] utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet [...] without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person [...] who receives the communications [...] shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."--Kadenpress 03:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: @Kadenpress: bevore doing a Hexenjagd read this    -- 172.158.194.109 10:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I have never made legal threats against you! Unsuccessful distortion of facts. If you have a clear conscience and good faith, why are you not giving your real identity? Why are you afraid of  action of Ms. Ciesla? --Kadenpress 04:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Untrue statement!!  I was talking to Mr. Gessulat. No Mr. Pearlmango or other person contacted Mr. Gessulat about this. Emails and phones to Gessulat Media Publishing house are perfectly working.--Kadenpress 00:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

text: That's not unexpected that an Company (Gessulat-Medien-GmbH) make some press releases about her advertising produkt. The notability at this subject means which reliable sources (mainstream press) cites this press releases??  Read the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons That Stefan Gessulat was an former chef of the Playboy is notabel for an articel about Stefan Gessulat himself but not for an article about the subject Claudia. Im Germany we have a Phrase about such things "Nichts ist so erfolgreich, wie sich im Ruhm von anderen zu sonnen" that means in 
english: "Nothing succeeds like the success by other people". Wiki-nightmare 22:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ref? 

message: As I tried to post before, wikipedia is against articles written for self promotion or advertisement. This is a perfect example. It should have been removed through speedy deletion when it was created as it looks like it's just a resume'. --Pizzaz 12:01, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: SPAM