Talk:Kidney stone disease

message: In the novel 'East of Eden' I read this: "Right here?" he asked, and exerted a little pressure on the small of her back. "No? Here?  Does this hurt?" So. Well, I think you just need a kidney flushing." He left yellow, green, and red pills to be taken in sequence. The pills did good work.
I am wondering what type of substance those pills would be. I searched for 'kidney flushing' but didn't find an article on it. Google showed me things like -blocked link- and http://curezone.com/cleanse/kidney/default.asp . Kidney flushing in that case involves drinking things like green tea, lemon juice, olive oil and so on. But only liquids. I still don't know what solid 'kidney flushing' pills would of contained. 
Someone with medical knowledge could help here. Even if 'kidney flushing' is a pseudoscience at best, the process still deserves a mention in the article, if not it's own one.
: From personal experience, a strong pain killer will sometimes stop the spasms of uninary colic and allow the stone to pass.  That suggests that at least one component to the 'medical cocktail' mentioned would be such a pain killer.  50.124.139.7 (talk) 04:52, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps a diuretic?—RJH (talk) 19:48, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's covered under expulsion therapy and also under the medical management, in the past sentence.Wzrd1 (talk) 03:56, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Kidney stone flushing

message: I think there is a problem with the "convert" function. When I was browsing this entry I noticed the statement "consumed 1,000 milligrams (15 gr) of supplemental calcium". When I went to correct the fact that 1,000mg is equal to 1gr, I noticed this was created by the command (bracket-bracket)convert|1000|mg|gr(bracket-bracket). Seems to be an error with this function, no?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Talbotron22 (talk • contribs) 03:03, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: "gr", at least in this case, is grains, not grams. I don't know whether that was intended or not, though. – RobinHood70 talk 03:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent observation, RobinHood70! The conversion from milligrams to grains ("...women who consumed 1,000 milligrams (15 grains) of supplemental calcium") was indeed intentional, although most of us do not think in terms of the grain unit. Other available options for mass units would have been either 0.564 drams, or 0.0353 ounces. Both of these numbers are even more awkward than 15 grains, IMHO. It may ultimately be best to simply leave the units in milligrams.... DiverDave (talk) 04:20, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

text: I'll second the leaving units in metric. Wow! I had nearly forgotten Grain units! Many, many ages ago, we'd administer 1/4 grain of morphine. 16 milligrams is FAR more uniform than 1/4 grain.Wzrd1 (talk) 04:00, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Error with convert function

message: I've removed the statement that water flouridation may cause kidney stones purely on the basis of the source that's given.  It cites what purports to be a publication of the National Academy of Sciences; however, the copy that is linked to is hosted on , and I challenge anyone to go look at that site and then come back here and claim it can be relied upon to report the NAS's words faithfully.  If someone can link to the same paper hosted somewhere reliable, or has a paper copy and can swear the linked version hasn't been altered, go ahead and put it back in. GideonF (talk) 09:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have restored the source, though this time from the National Academy of Sciences website. Though the the linked version at the previous website is indeed unaltered, I certainly agree that the actionpa.org website cannot be considered a reliable source. Unforntunately, that is the only place I could find the full pdf file. DiverDave (talk) 12:20, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.GideonF (talk) 15:28, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fluoridation of drinking water 

message: "Axial CT scan of abdomen without contrast, showing a 3mm stone (marked by an arrow) in the right proximal ureter"
Isn't this the (L) proximal ureter? The opposite stide is marked (R) on the film.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.211.54.84 (talk) 12:47, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Normally, I'd dismiss such a comment, except that it DOES appear to be on the left side. If the liver is what I'm seeing on the left side of the image and to be honest, it IS looking a lot like liver... Any radiologist types out there to comment?Wzrd1 (talk) 04:04, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It is the left yes sorry. I added a better quality picture without fixing the side of the stone in the text. No liver in that slice just some bowel with intra luminal stool on the right. Note the little R... --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:54, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imaging caption - (L) rather than (R)? 

message: In the ultrasound paragraph under imaging, there is a sentence that reads "Radiolucent stones, which do not appear on CT scans, may show up on ultrasound imaging studies".  This is incorrect, no?  All stones (except for those rare drug residue stones) - even radiolucent ones - are visible on CT.  That's what makes CT so much more useful than plain film.  If we couldn't see radiolucent stones on CT, we might as well just get KUBs on everyone and call it a day.
Here's an old article from the early days of CT that confirms it:  http://www.ajronline.org/content/142/3/545.full.pdf+html
And a newer one: http://radiology.rsna.org/content/250/3/813.full  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.157.14 (talk) 14:34, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radiolucent stones 

message: There is a picture captioned "1935 mechanical horse used against ureteral stones". Such a bizarre contraption surely deserves a line or two in the article explaining what it is all about? Putney Bridge (talk) 22:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it in the other kidney? Regards, RJH (talk) 22:50, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mechanical horse 

message: I notice that frequency of occurrence is given only for the first three types of stones. The last category ("Other") lumps together several types of stones, all considered rare. I think it would be helpful to put a number on this, if it can be done. Also, Type 1 (calcium stones) are 80% of cases in the U.S. For the other types, no country or region is specified. This seems inconsistent. ChrisWinter (talk) 23:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can find reliable sources for the suggested information, that would be helpful. Thanks. Regards, RJH (talk) 23:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frequency of occurrence 

message: Hello Editors
I added a subsection of ayurvedic treatment in the kidney stone page. I also wanted to add a list of medicines under this subtopic, like: Pashanbhed Gana ,Varunadi Kwath. Needed your opinion regarding this. If medicines cannot be added to the page we can atleast add some core ingredients of these medicines. Barkhadhamechai (talk) 09:39, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Need Your Opinion

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests March 2012 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant 
This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 10:17, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that's a shame. It's a great pic, in a retro type of way. Regards, RJH (talk) 19:06, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:Urether stone loosener mechanical horse.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Under causes "high fructose corn syrup" mentioned as a cause, but the citation references a study that focuses solely on pure fructose consumption not fructose and glucose. It also seems redundant to mention high fructose corn syrup and refined sugars since refined sugars covers high fructose corn syrup.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miso beno (talk • contribs) 14:51, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Causes: Refined Sugars and High Fructose Corn Syrup.  

message: Males and females have different urinary systems, the man's is longer, does this mean the man suffers more? Although I understand the woman's is wider... Or at least... her urinary system is tied to the uterus, well I dont really know, I'm no expert in anatomy...Undead Herle King (talk) 02:22, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I know this is no place for questions, but the article should address if there is any meaningful difference between the male and female experience through this ailment as tests have proven by quantifying pain the same way they have quantified pain to determine women ahs a higher tolerance to painUndead Herle King (talk) 02:24, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Male and female urinary systems and symptoms of kidney stones 

message: Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your talk page please reply on mine) 04:12, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: 2012 review article

message: "male orgasim can decrease formation of stones."
Is that like an orgasm, but for a nucular age? Also, how exactly does it decrease formation of stones, and whose stones does it decrease the formation of? Male or female stones? Was this tested on laboratory mice? If so, was it controlled for presence (or absence of) cadmium in the post-sex cigarettes, or did the mice light up a cig as well? If so, who provided them with such small cigarettes, and has it been attempted to use nicotine addiction in rats as a form of deratization? Or did the smoker mice and rats running around the fields, as well as the human settlements, prove too much of a fire hazard?
I believe that this article would benefit greatly from further examination of these questions.--92.36.132.101 (talk) 04:33, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No one ever sat down and gave you the talk, now did they? Charles35 (talk) 05:03, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's an "orgasim"? 

message: Too busy/lazy to look into this, but is there not a contradiction here?:
"On the other hand, high dietary intake of potassium appears to reduce the risk of stone formation because potassium promotes the urinary excretion of citrate, an inhibitor of urinary crystal formation. High dietary intake of magnesium also appears to reduce the risk of stone formation somewhat, because like citrate, magnesium is also an inhibitor of urinary crystal formation.[6]"
Shmaristotle (talk) 01:52, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible error 

message: Currently the table entry for calcium oxalate stones says under the column "circumstances" i.e., that they form, "when urine is alkaline (ph>5.5)".  Med.nyu.edu asserts in relation to citrate "... it makes the urine less acidic, which inhibits the development of both calcium oxylate and uric acid stones."  So, it seems there's some bad information somewhere.  Either Wikipedia is correct,that calcium oxalate stones form when urine pH is > 5.5,  or med.nyu.edu is correct, that alkaline urine inhibits formation of calcium oxalate stones, but it doesn't seem that both sites can be correct, unless there's some other language problem such as misreading the header meaning of "circumstances." 
Here's another reference, nlm.nih.gov says, "Acidic urine is associated with xanthine, cystine, uric acid, and calcium oxalate stones. Alkaline urine is associated with calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, and magnesium phosphate stones." 
Gzuufy (talk) 17:19, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  PH or acid-alkaline balance relative to calcium oxalate chart entry

message: There is quite a bit of detail in the article about the geographic distribution with specific mention of the 'Middle East', which is helpful, but there is also mention of the 'kidney stone belt' in the 'southern US' which is quite vague.  Please elaborate. 50.124.139.7 (talk) 05:08, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 'kidney stone belt'? 

message: I think we should change it to: "When a stone causes minor symptoms, watchful waiting is a valid option."
If there are "no symptoms" then the doctor and patient don't know there's something to watch at all.
Totoro33 (talk) 02:50, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: One picks up stones on CT all the time. These do not need treatment unless they cause symptoms. You tell the person about it and say that at some point they may develop pain but then again may not. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 04:47, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I guess that makes sense, except that I'd consider a stone on CT to be a "symptom." However, I'm not a doctor, so I could be misunderstanding the word symptom. Thanks. Totoro33 (talk) 15:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe we could say something like, "When a stone causes no perceived symptoms, watchful waiting is a valid option."Totoro33 (talk) 15:05, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: "symptom" is what the person experiences. A stone on a CT is a radiological finding not a symptom. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 23:51, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for the clarification... Totoro33 (talk) 00:39, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious -- "When a stone causes no symptoms, watchful waiting is a valid option." 

message: "Prevention
...
Dietary measures
...
* Increasing intake of citrate-rich drinks such as lemonade and orange juice
...
* Limiting vitamin C intake to less than  per day
..."
Is there a contradiction? Citrate-rich drinks are also vitamin-C-rich.
::That is what the source says  Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:21, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction? 

message: Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:57, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: No benefit from [[expulsive therapy]]

message: Does this deserve a mention? JuanTamad (talk) 09:19, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Roller Coaster Could Help People Pass Kidney Stones

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kidney stone disease. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/60DJf9pe8?url=http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/81/3/297.full.pdf to http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/81/3/297.full.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:48, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Article states:
"High dietary intake of potassium appears to reduce the risk of stone formation because potassium promotes the urinary excretion of citrate, an inhibitor of calcium crystal formation."
This seems illogical. If the effect of K is to increase excretion and hence lower citrate levels, how does this reduce stone formation? Removing an inhibitor would presumably increase it. Carusus (talk) 21:24, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potassium argument illogical 

message: doi:10.2215/​CJN.11201016 CJASN. JFW | T@lk 08:20, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review of prophylaxis 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kidney stone disease. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111008090923/http://www.expertconsultbook.com/expertconsult/op/book.do?method=display&type=bookPage&decorator=none&eid=4-u1.0-B978-1-4160-3105-5..50039-6&isbn=978-1-4160-3105-5 to http://www.expertconsultbook.com/expertconsult/op/book.do?method=display&type=bookPage&decorator=none&eid=4-u1.0-B978-1-4160-3105-5..50039-6&isbn=978-1-4160-3105-5
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:28, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Article reads that "nearly all stones are visible on CT scans" this however is simply not true. A quick search on pubmed along the lines of "False negatives renal stone CT scan" brings up plenty of articles showing false negative rates ranging from 5-30% on CT imaging.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2422967/#:~:text=Of%20the%20discrepancies%20found%20between,complex%20cyst%20and%20renal%20mass.
https://www.kidneynews.org/kidney-news/findings/ultrasound-vs-ct-initial-test-for-kidney-stones#:~:text=Diagnostic%20accuracy%20was%2034.5%20percent,evaluation%20of%20suspected%20kidney%20stones.
So this section should be changed because it is clearly not the case that nearly all stones are visible on CT scans and clearly the case that many stones are not visible.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.207.53.131 (talk) 09:20, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diagnosis (imaging studies) False Negatives 

message: Summary of additions from Cochrane review studies
- To surgery: added comparison of stent vs no stent in surgery
- To lithotripsy: added info on the use of alpha-blockers as post-treatment medication
- To diet: clarified information about the impact of drinking more water
- To medical expulsive therapy: added details to information on alpha blockers
- To children: added info on treatment options and comparisons for urinary stones in children
--Gsom12812 (talk) 22:25, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cochrane review edits on treatment