Talk:Lost season 1/Archive 1

message: :Sun's father is an important gangster, and Jin was forced to work for him in order to marry Sun.
While a number of fans have argued that this is the case, very little has been revealed to prove this: Sun's father is apparently very wealthy & powerful, & Jin was involved in some kind of violent episode while at work for him -- but there are no clues that Sun's father is involved in a Korean version of the yakuza. As with so much in Lost, we are given only some pieces of the puzzle & are forced to fill in the still extensive gaps. -- llywrch 05:43, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed from the text

message: Anyone have the original air date for each episode?  --Pmsyyz 22:53, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Air dates 

message: Too much of a good thing?
The episode summary for Whatever the Case May Be is considerably longer than all the others.  I'm not criticizing the quality of the entry, but I think it's too long for this article.  Such text might go better in an in-depth Lost website rather than a wikipedia article where people would just want a concise summary.  Maybe we could trim it down to be commensurate with the other summaries we've got. 
If we're not careful this article will get too big by the end of the season and will be hard to navigate and too time-consuming to read.  Bigger is not always better.  
Just a suggestion ...
Ahkond 21:46, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I had the same thought upon seeing it. I've got it copied over to a text file on my PC and will try to whittle it down in the next day or two. I also cut down the summary I wrote for the most recent episode. --Hedgey42 08:28, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia --Pmsyyz 17:47, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: *Change of mind: Now in favor of splitting up. As each episode's section has expanded, I think that after the season finale, it would be appropriate to break them out into separate articles-- particularly as future episodes tend to refer/change events of previous ones, it might be worthwhile to track the plot developments more in depth. --LeFlyman 17:00, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Break up into one article per episode 

message: The summaries for Pilot and Exodus seem way longer than the other episodes, the end result is that the article looks very uneven.  I think we should trim the summaries down; the shot-by-shot recap seems more like twop territory than ours. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:45, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, they are pretty long. Maybe making an seperate article for each? A while ago, a proposal was put up to have each episode its own article. Originally, I was against it, but it seems every TV show has an article for 1 episode (e.g. The Simpsons and South Park.) So if there was another proposal to make an article for each episode, I would be for it. Thunderbrand 22:47, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

text: At this point, we should either split them into separate articles or even out the summaries (shortening some, expanding some). Many of them could do with an extended synopsis, which is probably better in separate articles. KramarDanIkabu 22:17, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

text: While seperate articles I'm sure has an appeal, I think a better idea at this point is to trim out all the fancruft before having to come to this decision. I read through a few episodes earlier and I thought it was horrible how much detail this page goes into. I know a lot of information here is necessary to explain some of the episodes or whatever, but I don't think we need to mention every detail and every moment of every character's life and interaction with one another. Lets cut this page down first, get rid of all the excess and unneeded information and then come back to the question of whether we need an episode per page. K1Bond007 04:30, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree here, I don't entirely like the separate articles for each episode ideas either. I think we can take no more than two paragraphs for each episode. I still think some of these need to be expanded because they really don't provide much information. KramarDanIkabu 04:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I like a general paragraph limit on each episode (with slight leeway given to the pilot and finale due to the double-episode).  We can decide that major plot and theme elements can stay, and a short section on special references is probably a good idea too.  --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:34, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looong summaries 

message: I am hoping to get around to new summaries soon that will hopefully be more balanced out, though it will likely take a while. Anyway, what I want to ask is what kind of format we should use for the summaries as far as flashbacks go. Should they be integrated into the plot summary where they appear in the show, or should a separate paragraph be lain out for flashbacks. I ask because I believe that it is crucial to the plot of the second season premiere that Desmond be introduced in the flashback before in the hatch. What are your opinions on the matter? KramarDanIkabu (talk) 05:38, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary format 

message: Hi there, 
Can anyone tell me what the "Black Rock" is? I searched Wiki, but with no luck. It was first mentioned when Sayid follows the metal wire from the beach to her hut.
Thanks, 17:50, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The Black Rock is the beached ship that Danielle leads them to, where they find the Dynamite. I believe the first reveal of the Black Rock was in Exodus Part 1. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Black Rock

message: Why didn't anyone notice that some anonymous IP made numerous vandalism and POV's to "Tabula Rasa" for a days without anyone noticing? I have left 165.21.154.116 a  on their talk page, and made sure Administrator intervention against vandalism know about it. Kilo-Lima 16:28, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why didn't anyone notice? 

message: When the Koreans are in the airport and the blonde woman complains about her submissive conduct, doesn't she says "it's like a scene from Memories of a Geisha"?
If so, we could link to it in this article.
:It's Memoirs of a Geisha, not "Memories", but yes. --Pentasyllabic 00:14, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Geisha behaviour

message: At the end of this article, could there perhaps be a section on the Season 1 DVD, what kind of special features it has, and what insights regarding the first season are revealed? I'm in Australia and we don't get the DVD for another month, so I'm curious. Frob 01:36, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that it matters, but no, there isn't such a deleted scene. 209.189.130.17 20:34, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  DVD Special Features 

message: I would also agree in breaking up the page into seperate episodes. it is extremely long, and reading through it all at once would take a long time. For example, can you imagine having the Simpsons' episode list on one article. It would be so big!--M Johnson 08:43, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: This is a ''very'' long article!

message: In Exodus 2&3, I don't believe it's part of a soccer team that Hurley drives past in the airport. The shirts look more like rugby (or Aussie football?) shirts. Can anyone figure out exactly what they were? mat_x 16:10, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Soccer team?

message: Episodes of Lost (season 1) -- article is far too long and needs to be trimmed using a synoptic style rather than an all-encompassing description of each episode. Jim62sch 16:02, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking of how Family Guy has their episodes set up. Thoughts? Morgan695 00:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There have been discussions about this before on both this talk page and season two's talk page.  I think the article is fine the way it is.  Having a synoptic episode guide would not work because this show is so complex you have to include intricate details about the episode so that later episodes in the season make sense. Jtrost 00:18, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I've only recently registered, but I've been a Sub-Editor on the BBC's h2g2 site for a while. I'm a bit wary of treading on anyone's toes at the moment, but I've been through each Season 1 synopsis and tidied up any grammar and repetition. I've hopefully stayed respectful to US spellings and punctuation. However, some synopses do appear to be longer than others and contain far too much detail. Having said that, I think there needs to be some sort of consensus on how much is too much. I don't want to look at anything to do with Season 2 yet, if I can avoid it, as it has yet to arrive in the UK and I'd like to enjoy the series as it's shown, if possible. Chris 42 23:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, those examples look much more sensible. As a newbie, I didn't want to go in and start removing excessive content wholesale, and this will hopefully be an acceptable solution. Chris 42 21:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I am not entirely comfortable with this radical change -- there was no consensus on this, and none of the regular Lost editors were made aware of this decision (as far as I know).  Please see my Talk on the main Lost page. Danflave 16:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I disagree.  I think the vast majority of users are relatively unconcerned about the length of this article.  I wanted to catch up on LOST as I had not watched it at all until last week and was thrilled that this nugget of an article was on the Wikipedia.  The show is extremely complex and even after reading all of these summaries I'm still somewhat confused.  To trim it down further would render the article useless... you might as well VFD. AlanzoB (UTC)
The discussion has changed somewhat its over on the Lost (TV series) talk page now Discordance 01:19, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean-up

message: I've removed a trivia note about Captain Hook's ship (from Peter Pan) being named the Black Rock.  In my copy of the novel Peter Pan by JM Barrie () the ship is named the Jolly Roger (p. 90).  If the ship was called the Black Rock in some other medium (e.g. film, musical ...?) please provide a reference.  Ahkond 02:56, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain Hook 

message: In which episode do Locke and Boone find the "priest" carrying nigerian money and a gun? Was that Deus Ex Machina? That's pretty important, so I think we should add it. I just need clarification on the episode. Also, he should be on the list of "former inhabitents of the island," right? → evin290 02:06, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that it is already included in that list. But under his real name - discovered in Season 2. 212.36.8.100 11:24, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Priest" 

message: A cursory glance of :Category:Lists of television series episodes shows that the majority use "List of" format so I propose renaming to:
* List of Lost episodes (season 1)
* List of Lost episodes (season 2)
* List of Lost episodes (season 3)
With List of Lost episodes containing the usual list information (e.g., List of South Park episodes or List of Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes) and List of Lost episodes (season X) containg detailed episode information (or deleting them upon making each episode it's own article).  Regardless of the details, "Episodes of Lost" should be renamed. Cburnett 17:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it's not exactly a list, per se... its the episode summaries themselves. As we have not reached a consensus on whether episode synopses should be separated from the episode names, use of "list" would not be appropriate for what we have here. If in the future, the individual episodes do get separated, then I could see us having a set of list pages as you suggest. —LeflymanTalk 22:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If that's the case, then it shouldn't be in :Category:Lists of television series episodes.  It's either a list or it isn't.  Wrong section, but I don't see what the problem is on making one episode per article.  Jimbo has been quoted as saying that even every episode of Simpsons should get it's own article (but to shreds if I could remember where I saw that). Cburnett 00:25, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

text: *That's not a "quote from Jimbo" about episodes (as claimed above.) What he said was, "I agree with this one completely" regarding "No size limits." See the discussion on MetaWiki Wiki is not paper. Just because Jimbo might agree with a statement made 2-3 years ago, that does not necessarily mean it must be implemented immediately here. As great as he is, Jimbo is not a deity, and his utterances are not akin to papal infallibility. —LeflymanTalk 03:00, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

text: *Actually, the Consensus (as of November 2005) is "that not every episode is worthy of inclusion." Further, the Proposed policy wording says, "it may not be a good idea to create small articles on every episode of a television show." So there are arguments contrary to what has been suggested above. I'm playing devil's advocate here, because in truth, I am in favor of having individual articles on Lost episodes, but I also want us to be accurate as to our reasoning and to follow what is being done elsewhere. We have many long-term editors here who would blanch at the notion of having to deal with so many new articles. —LeflymanTalk 03:00, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now we have two lists of the same episodes. Something will have to be done. -The monkeyhate 21:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename to List of Lost episodes (season x) 

message: LOST is getting really big, and it's only stupid to keep the episodes listed like this.
They should be like they are in List_of_Lost_episodes. --Muhaidib 03:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Check the discussion page... it's all explained there... NowotnyPL 12:02, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delete this Page 

message: The show's format, with a great number of flashbacks interspacing events on the island, makes keeping the flow of text smooth a b***h. I propose that we use ordinary text for the latter but italics or the rare underlining for the former. Any objections? --Kizor 18:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see Talk:Lost (TV series) and review the discussion we've already had on episode guides.  If you think that there is a problem with "flow" feel free to copyedit this page, however using an excessive amount of underlines or italics violates the manual of style guidelines. Jtrost (T | C | #) 19:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I read the last archive page and the TOCs of a couple more and couldn't find a discussion on this particular subject. Can you be a bit more specific since those pages are FULL of spoilers and the series isn't even halfway through the first season here yet?I do feel that there's a problem. The descriptions bounce back and forth between flashback and island, sometimes not even indicating it when they switch. The page needs as efficient a way as possible of telling them apart. The most immediately obvious and space-conserving one would be italics or underlining. As for the Manual of Style, I consider it what it is - a guideline, to be used for when no special conditions apply - but won't go against it wantonly. --21:12, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Formatting

message: I reverted the last edit of this article by 81.151.192.156. By and large, the bad points outweighed the good. There was repetition and redundancy all over the place: has the anonymous user ever heard of synonyms? Also, the correct present tense was changed to past tense in one instance and there was some bad spelling ("greives"). In addition, while there is no Wiki consensus on the use of curly or straight quotes, it is the latter that prevail throughout the Lost main article, so for consistency's sake, this one should follow the same style. However, in places there were some good summaries. It would be better if you did one section at a time, allowing others to amend your work as necessary, rather than go through the whole thing wholesale. If this edit stands, then it creates a lot more work for someone to put right. Chris 42 16:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latest copy edit 

message: The main Lost template is looking at major edits after the finale tonight, there has been some discussion on how the design should look like, and what the contents of the new template should be, the Current template is as follow
and is looking to be replaced with this one
 
and others that are listed in there, Please do not share your ideas here, go to Template talk:LostNav#More "spacious" template to share your thoughts, thank you very much and enjoy the season finale tonight 9/8c on ABC --mo-- (Talk | #info |  ) 16:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lost Template 

message: We need to reach consensus.  PLEASE comment here.  --  Wikipedical 22:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consensus on article system: Seasons vs. Episodes 

message: Is there anyone that can say something about Jack's flashback in the 1st episode? --213.45.189.70 21:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What's to say about it?  Jack is on the plane, then it starts to crash.  I don't think that it's notable enough to put in the episode summary, because we already know that there was a plane crash, and thus the flashback doesn't give us any new information. --Kahlfin 03:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1st episode 

message: I don't understand the copyright laws too much here on wiki, so could any add more images, like there is on the Lost Season 2 page? It would make the page look less repetitive. Thanks. Cpudestroyer 20:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I started adding images to the first episodes Theone256 13:50, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Images!! 

message: For reference, there is an ongoing mediation about whether Lost episodes should be covered on Wikipedia via an "all on a season page" method, or "one page per episode" method.  Details on the discussion are available here: Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Lost episodes. --Elonka 22:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The mediation is complete, and as part of the compromise, the season articles have been reworked to be "all season" summaries rather than individual episode lists.  Information about individual episodes should now be placed into the respective episode articles, which are linked from List of Lost episodes.  I've attempted to update all the links appropriately, but help would be appreciated to see if I missed something somewhere.  Hopefully we can have everything all cleaned up before Monday, when Lost will be featured on the front page of Wikipedia! --Elonka 06:14, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mediation

message: According my calculations, the transmission has not been repeating for 16 years and 5 months, as claimed in the show, but only 4 years and 7-8 months. 7294531 iterations times approximately 20 seconds (not 30) per iteration makes 4.63 years. Is this a mistake in the show, or does it have a significant meaning? Perhaps a nice addition as trivia? Mzyxptlk 17:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Repeating Transmission in 'Pilot part 2'

message: In order to help proceed with the mediation discussion, I have added links to the episode articles, from the appropriate places on this page.  These links reduce confusion, and harm nothing.  If anyone has concerns, please let me know. --Elonka 19:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, of course I have concerns.  This unilateral step is basically serving to help cement (as the status quo) your stance on episode articles vs. season articles. If "possession is 9/10ths the law", as the saying goes, status quo counts for a lot in Wikipedia.  These links should be removed  until the issue under mediation either achieves consensus (that being consensus, not majority vote) or is resolved by the mediator. Thanks.  PKtm 17:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Doing a wholesale revert of a good faith edit can be regarded as uncivil.  The links are to additional sources of relevant information that are already on Wikipedia, and indeed, each of those episodes already links to the season articles, so it seems improper to have the episode articles link to the season articles, but not allow the season articles to link to the episode articles. I am re-establishing the links, since they are valid.  If there is consensus to remove them, I will abide by the will of the community, but please don't act unilaterally. --Elonka 19:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Links to episode articles

message: When did Sayid flashback in Exodus? I always figured his appearances were part of Shannon and Jin's flashbacks. Wasn't his flashback a deleted scene on the DVD? Also, shouldn't Claire be added (for Part Two), for her flashback fighting Danielle? Squidward2602 20:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exodus flashbacks