Talk:Bozeman, Montana

message: I just deleted the References in popular culture section and moved the references I thought should stay into a new arts and culture section. I'm now going to try to clean it up, source the existing info., and find new info. Johnny Neutrino (talk) 02:28, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd add a few of those back in, (Zen and the Art is a major one, there are also several other films made around Bozeman not mentioned) and I'd maybe not call this "arts and culture" unless you want to add the opera, the theater, etc... It could remain a "popular culture" section if it just mentions books and movies.  I don't care much for trivia sections and fully agree there is no need for the "every time the place gets mentioned in a cartoon" list, but I think legitimate literary refs and that sort of thing can stay. I'll throw a few things in to show you how I'm thinking.  Montanabw(talk) 17:53, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it looks good. I really just wanted to get rid of the "Bozeman was briefly mentioned in X" references. As for adding arts and culture info., I figure I should just leave it to someone who's actually familiar with the arts scene in Bozeman (I don't live in Bozeman). Johnny Neutrino (talk) 01:09, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, trivia lists get endless.  I'll let Mike add the recent stuff.  I'm still in Montana, but not within the "Bozone layer" any more! ;-)  Montanabw(talk) 20:14, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Arts and culture section 

message: Mike, I think you might be getting in over your head with your refinement of the Notable residents section.  Is there such an organizational structure to other city lists like this?  I am, for example, thinking or people who may have been "raised" in Bozeman, but not necessarily born there, people who were born there but left at age two and because famous elsewhere, people who lived there only for a short time (Gary Cooper), or people who passed through here on their way to becoming famous (like Loren Acton), etc... Because people do move around, I fear you are opening up a can of worms...  (I mean, if you were famous, who would "claim" you?  Or me, for that matter?)  Also, the categories might be a little arbitrary.  Not saying you shouldn't do this, just concerned that you have got yourself in for a big potential mess.  Montanabw(talk) 22:05, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: BW its not perfect yet, it may never be, but once I get it done, we can refine as needed.  It will never cover every scenario, but every good list (embedded or standalone) should have some inclusion criteria.  The good thing about doing this is I am learning alot about all these folks. Thanks for caring --Mike Cline (talk) 22:10, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a fun list.  Montanabw(talk) 18:57, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's grown to a size where it should be spun off as its own article.  Plazak (talk) 19:11, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Although I don't disagree with you about it being a standalone list, how would you defend that from a notability standpoint in light of: WP:NOTESAL? Do you think it would stand the test?--Mike Cline (talk) 20:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As a practical matter, there are numerous Wikipedia lists of notable people by city, state, and university.  If it is notable enough for a section, my view is that the section is notable enough for a stand-alone article.  My primary concern in making the suggestion is navigational: once a section of an article reaches a certain size, it becomes easier for the browsing reader if it is spun off, and connected by a link on the main article, with perhaps a paragraph with half-a-dozen of the most notable. The Notable People Section in this article is already longer (on my screemn at least) than any other section except History.  Also, you've done a good job in restricting the list to those with Wiki articles.  Plazak (talk) 23:44, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Plazak - I've finished my reconstruction of the Notables list.  If you firmly believe it should be moved to a standalone list, please create it.  I have no objections and if others don't, I think the move will make this article better.  --Mike Cline (talk) 20:36, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally see no reason for a spinoff.  I sort of hate the Balkanization of Wikipedia into a bunch of little weak articles just for the sake of more articles.  If this was San Francisco or New York City, I'd see the point.  But we are under 100 names here as far as I can tell.   Further, picking the "half-dozen most notable" is REALLY opening a can of worms!  Other than John Bozeman, we'd have a terrible time reaching a consensus. Montanabw(talk) 02:26, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notables 

message: In my attempts to improve the Bozeman article to GA status, I have identified the following individuals as notable Bozemanites needing WP articles.  Anyone interested should tackle them. --Mike Cline (talk) 21:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree on Nelson Story.  Not so sure about Willson unless he also did a lot of work elsewhere.  Be an interesting thing to research.  If you note anyone working on Story, I'll peek at the article.  Montanabw(talk) 06:11, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Bozeman Notables needing articles

message: BW - Take a look a this source:  --Mike Cline (talk) 10:18, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not the point.  The "Sweet Pea" flower is toxic and inedible. It is not the same as the edible pea, sometimes called a "sweet" pea.  So there is a need to clarify how things are written.  You linked to the toxic plant... and I didn't want to tweak the wording without consulting the source.  And at the time I looked at the article, I was home on the rangedialup, where deer and antelope play google books doesn't like to load.  ;-)  I'll take a whack at the section and see if I can do a workable explanation and rephrase.  (And I also own bunch of vintage 80s Sweet Pea buttons, does anyone acutually buy these? We all claimed they'd be worth something someday...)Montanabw(talk) 23:56, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Re ''Sweet Pea Capital of the Nation''

message: In the media appearance section there should be a mention of its appearance in Big Bang theory where Sheldon moves there briefly  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.34.221 (talk) 17:39, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no significance to this.  If we mention every time a TV show or a comic book or a popular song makes a reference, we'd have a giant trivia list, which is discouraged on wikipedia.  It would be different if the whole TV series were set in Bozeman, but it's not.  Major literature or significant cultural references are one thing, a minor TV comedy series, however momentarily popular, is not. Montanabw(talk) 23:03, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: i would cocur with this once all the trivial mentions of New York City in the media are included in that article.  Not relevant to Bozeman --Mike Cline (talk) 23:49, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: On a related note, couldn't star trek be mentioned 'arts' section? Bozeman played an important role as the home town of a central character and the town itself (though as a future representation) was the setting for a number of episodes and for most of the 8th film in the series. Just a thought ~~  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.214.202 (talk) 05:36, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Big bang theory 

message: I added "Bozeman is a college town it is dominated by Montana State University - Bozeman which accounts for a third of the cities population." It is a truthful statement and helps people get a feel of Bozeman and how important MSU is to the city. I know Bozeman is very proud of being the home of MSU so I think this is a good add. However someone going by the name Montanabw deleted it with the comment "Non-encyclopedic tone". Now I have no clue what makes them think the tone is not encyclopedic it seems very much so to me. Regardless, if they thought it had a "Non-encyclopedic tone" why delete it why not just give it the tone they think it needs.  I intend to put the statement back in the page but  I am open to ideas on phrasing. Just thought I would bring it here and see what others think.
Thanks
Missoulianette (talk) 00:22, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Original statement: Bozeman is home to Montana State University - Bozeman. Your statement: Bozeman is a college town it is dominated by Montana State University - Bozeman which accounts for a third of the cities population.  I would say the second statement as written is un-encyclopedic for the following reasons: 1)  the term College Town is undefined and controversial (see the article) 2) the word dominated is a peacock term that adds little meaning and a lot of distortion to the article.  What does it mean?  I cannot see MSU from my house in Bozeman.  I don't think that MSU runs the city council or appoints the mayor of Bozeman.  I don't have to get permission from MSU when I want to plant a tree in my yard. If anything dominates Bozeman, its the Bridger Range.  3) 1/3 of the cities population.  Here you are doing a bit of Original research by comparing a transient student population to the census population (of which the majority of students are not included).  All three of these statements are unsourced as well. The question we must ask is what improvement your statement brings to the article.  The original statement is factually correct, easily understood and uncontestable.  Any reader can read the MSU article for details about MSU.  Equally, any reader of the MSU article can read the Bozeman article for details about the city. --Mike Cline (talk) 13:18, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Mike, that is precisely what I felt when I did the revert, you said it better than I could.  So glad to meet you, Missoulianette.  Feel free to ask me directly next time if you'd like.  Montanabw(talk) 22:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Opening sentence to the article linked by Mike Cline "A college town or university town is a community (often literally a town, but possibly a small or medium sized specialized city, or in some cases a neighborhood or a district of a city) which is dominated by its university population."  Not only does that describe Bozeman perfectly (perhaps that is why Bozeman's university and travel agencies all refer to Bozeman as such), but they use the word "dominate" that you just denigrated the usage of.  I'm pretty sure that it doesn't mean you can see the university from your house.  It means that Bozeman's economy is very dependent on the school.  The fact that it employs more than the next 10 largest employers combined attests to that.  Besides, is there no irony in using an undefined, controversial, and for that matter the non-existent word "un-encyclopedic" to describe college town as such?  Finally, considering that we just filled out the census this past year, you'd think people knew how it worked.  It doesn't matter if they are a transient population, where they vote, where they pay taxes...it matters where they lived last April.  So, yes, students are included in the population number.  Actually, 1/3 is an understatement.  Student's alone make up closer to 40% and when employees are included it's nearly half Bozeman's population.  Now, when you consider how many Bozeman businesses exist to simply serve that population and it is clear that Bozeman's economy is dominated by MSU.  The largest employer in Bozeman that isn't a social service is Walmart.  Bozeman is a college town by every possible conception of the term. Wait, do I have to quote a bunch of essays from sacred wikipolice texts for this to mean anything?Dsetay (talk) 18:01, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  deleted college town 

message: Missoulianette - don't be alarmed but I am raising the question we've been discussing about MSU and Bozeman's population at the OR Noticeboard.  For some reason I have been unable to steer you in the right direction here and do not want to get into an edit war with you over this.  The discussion here will be looked at by many others more experienced than me.  If I have erred in my interpretation of WP:SYN then I will learn from this.  If you have erred, you will learn. There's nothing punitive in this at all, its normal collaborative behavior that we all should engage in routinely.  Please feel free to weigh in on the discussion, but remember to listen to the council of others as well.  --Mike Cline (talk) 21:30, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, this issue died two years ago, note dates of thread.   Montanabw(talk) 01:11, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Bringing Bozeman-MSU population question up to OR/Noticeboard

message: Why not create a Bozeman, Montana in popular culture page or something like that so that the obsessed can have a spot for their incessant need to include references to Bozeman being mentioned in Star Trek, the Big Bang Theory, and wherever the hell else the name has turned up.  They get to feel important and everyone else can be spared of countless times deleting trivia. Dsetay (talk) 20:43, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sympathetic, but do ALL city articles have such pages?  I fully agree that every time a place gets mentioned in a TV show or movie, it doesn't belong in the town's article (I wonder what one on New York City wouldlook like? YIKES!)   I kind of gave up on Star Trek because, in fact, Brannon Braga came from Bozeman and was inserting the Bozeman references on purpose, so there is some argument to noting this (not an argument I'd go to the mat for if someone wanted it all out, but if it must be in, then being clear helps).  As for the rest, yeah.  Ongoing pain in the butt. So why doesn't Missoula have to deal with this? I know!  It's a plot by the Griz!  LOL! Montanabw(talk) 21:00, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The Missoula page used to have this problem, but I gradually got rid of them as insignificant when I rewrote the culture section.  Yes, Hemingway, Steinbeck, and irthe writer of Fight Club have mentioned Missoula, but only in passing.  I kept references to A River Runs Through It, but that's kind of obvious.  Plus, it has my favorite quote I need to find a place for “The world is full of bastards, the number increasing rapidly the further one gets from Missoula, Montana.”  I'd even consider adding The Decemberists' Apology Song since it's about Missoula, but I'll probably wait for someone to inevitably bring it up.  Though the Griz plot is a good idea.  I just quickly found a cowboy romance novel in Google Books that seems to have a character from Bozeman.  Ooh, and here's one about volcano eruptions!  But, here's the winner from Gold diggers & silver miners: prostitution and social life on the Comstock Lode, "Lesbian sexual relationships were a part of frontier prostitution, and a famous, although probably apocryphal, tale describes the night that Calamity Jane was ejected from a brothel in Bozeman, Montana, because she was corrupting the other inmates.”  That's gotta be included somehow. - Dsetay (talk) 06:47, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm all for Calamity Jane! LOL! And of course, with Missoula, we really have to note that Colin Meloy's pre-Decembrists garage band in Missoula was called Tarkio... Montanabw(talk) 17:01, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bozeman in popular culture page 

message: Simply because there seems to be someone insisting on putting a reference to Bozeman placing a bid for the 2022 Olympics.  The was, indeed, a group of residents two years ago wanting to pursue the absurd idea of holding the Olympics in Bozeman, led by Jon Greenspon.  He dropped the idea after a survey showed most people in the area thought it was a terrible idea.  See: Greenspon trying to unseat Krauss for mayor.
:Dsetay (talk) 17:38, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Olympic Bid 

message: Referring to the residents as Bozos rather than "Bozeman residents" is a bit more efficient, in my opinion. Many people from Bozeman and the surrounding area refer to themselves and others as such.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobcat009 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I put it back. I've lived here 14 years and never once heard the term. Maybe I roll in different circles, but I'd still like to see some sort of evidence for "Bozos" before changing the page.Metadox (talk) 05:25, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: While the name "Bozeman" lends itself to a few jokes of that sort (and even more for Bozone" - http://www.bozone.comhttp://www.bozone.com) there is nothing official about "bozo".  To Metadox's 14 years I will add the 18 years I lived there as well.  Absent a reliable source, this is just vandalism and shall be treated as such  Montanabw(talk) 06:50, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bozeman Residents 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: How is the letter "o" in "Bozeman" pronounced? /o/ as in Bozo, or /u/ as in booze? --Austrian (talk) 19:49, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: We pronounce it /o/ as in Bozo, or as rhyming with "rose" or "nose". To my ears, the unstressed "man" syllable is also reduced toward the schwa, as typical for American accents. The result sounds a bit similar to the pronunciation of bo's'n, (also spelled bosun, boatswain) although that might not be much help. Do you think we need a pronunciation guide in the article? Metadox (talk) 02:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: One joke is that arriving there is to enter the "Bozone layer."  I don't know if we want to do an IPA, but no objections if it's done right.  Bozeman is pronounced by locals with a long o as in "bozo" and "man" is said more like "mun" or, as you say, "reduced toward the schwa." Montanabw(talk) 06:46, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciation 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 2 external links on Bozeman, Montana. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110605124215/http://www.montana.edu/msuhistory/ to http://www.montana.edu/msuhistory/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120618101949/http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/30/3008950.html to http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/30/3008950.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:07, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Whoever removed zephram Cochrane. You're a dick 2604:3D08:2688:C00:ACB0:D3CB:1D78:8084 (talk) 11:26, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  edits