Talk:Tim Hortons/Archive 1

message: Anybody know of a Tims within four or five blocks of Bathurst and St. Clair in Toronto? There are vast areas of TO without donut shops at all. Bathurst north of Eglinton has Coffee Times but I can't think of any Tims offhand.Anyway, I'm thinking of modifying the claim in the opening. John FitzGerald 14:26, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I see my description of the claim as exaggerated has been removed on the grounds that it's true "in high-population areas." Well, I live in a high population area – downtown Toronto – and the nearest Tims is 12 (twelve) blocks away, They are pretty thin on the ground in West Toronto generally. But of course West Torontonians know coffee. Anyway, I'm not going to get in an edit war over something this trivial, but it's just another blemish on this article. If the article were to be serious, it wouldn't adduce an Ig Nobel prize as evidence of Tims' cultural importance, or claim that the inclusion of double double in dictionaries or the Air farce donut shop sketch have something to do with Tims.John FitzGerald 12:49, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Four or five blocks 

message: "Through 2004 and 2005, Tim Hortons received local opposition to their plans to build a drive-thru close to a large elementary school - especially when residents learned that the entrance and exit would not be placed on the main street because it was too dangerous. It would instead be located on the side street leading up to the school's front doors and drop-off zone."
* I haven't heard of this.  If this is regarding plans for one location and the controversy hasn't been reported widely outside that locality, I highly doubt that it is notable enough to be included.  As it is, there isn't enough information to verify the truth of the claim.  "local opposition"?  What town/city/province/state/country?  Remember, though, that it needs to not only be true but also notable enough for inclusion. - Cafemusique 21:36, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed claim: not notable, not verified 

message: I have heard, and sometimes use, Timmy Hoho's, however, an anon apparently thinks Timmy Ho's is the used. Has anyone else heard either of these? SECProto 02:04, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
: I've heard both, but I'd say "HoHo's". I went in to revert that when I saw it, but Google turn up 2600 (mostly relevant) for "Ho's" vs. 26 for "HoHo's", so I left it. — mendel ☎ 04:45, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
: I used to work at Tim Hortons on the West coast, and we often used "Timmy Ho's". I have never heard "Timmy HoHo's". GeeCee 01:36, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Colloquialisms

message: That addition is so much against NPOV that im tempted to delete it outright. -SECProto 20:44, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The section keeps getting added in once a week or so. It may or may not end up being the next "roll up the rim", but it seems more likely that it will fade into obscurity when it's not being run regularly on TV. Wikipedia isn't really the place to document companies' currently-running ads. In any case, without a source to verify it, claims about its popularity are POV. — mendel ☎ 21:13, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I admit that I was curious if the campaign was mentioned in this article, since I had noticed that the odd person has picked up the term in response.  Seeing the section that was removed, though, maybe it's best to leave it out for now.  --142.242.2.248 14:47, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Seconded. I think this was an ironic response to the original commercial; in any event it has no place in an encyclopedia. Radagast 23:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Steeped Tea Campaign

message: I have anecdotal evidence that the 2nd Tim Horton opened in Cornwall.  Can anyone confirm or reject this assertion? D'Iberville 03:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Tales Under the Rim: The Marketing of Tim Hortons, the second store was opened on Consession Street in Hamilton.Toonmon2005 20:37, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  2nd Tim Horton opening 

message: I have a hard time believing that as there are three, count them; one, two, three, within a single mile of my house!  Granted I have no references for this so I won't change it, but it seems as if all 100 of those stores are in Western New York, maybe thats why I like Canada... --T-rex 03:56, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "As of February 2006, there are over 290 Tim Hortons locations in the United States" according to the company website. According to our article here: "There were 2,598 outlets in Canada and 288 in the United States as of January 4, 2006."  Rmhermen 04:47, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The Tim Hortons website (and this article) indicate that there are currently 297 outlets in the U.S. --Skeezix1000 15:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

text: There is actually alot more in the United States now, just over 300 but Tim Hortons hasn't really approved that fact yet. Decimal10 00:54, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Only 100 in the US?

message: The section about Tim's as a cultural icon is still weak. First of all, it starts by saying that Tim's is branded as a cultural icon, which is certainly true, but then continues as if Tim's really is a cultural icon. It would be useful to know just what is meant by cultural icon, but even without a definition the evidence seems pretty weak.
For example, we're told that "The store's name is a permanent fixture in Canadian tongue." Well, yeah. If a chain has a name people will remember it; that doesn't make it an icon. Jacques Parizeau's name is a permanent fixture in Canadian tongue, but I don't think he's a Canadian cultural icon.
As for the Mint "choosing" Tim's to distribute those shoddy Remembrance Day quarters, I imagine some money changed hands, eh? I don't imagine anyone at the Mint thought "Hmm, who should distribute our quarters? Say! What about TIm Hortons? It would be perfect because it's a Canadian cultural icon!"
I do not understand how the appearance in an American movie of a donut shop called Stan Mikita's which is in a suburb of Chicago says anything about Canadian culture. I realize Mike Meyers made an in-joke about Tim's, but that makes Tim's an icon for Mike Meyers only. Yes, he could have made the joke because Tim's is a Canadian icon, but where's the evidence that it is?
As I've noted before, the term double-double was around long before Tim's was (as was I, so I know). It therefore clearly says nothing about the cultural status of Tim's.
Since I'd never heard of a Gretzky before, I don't know that it's great evidence of iconic status. And anyway, it's Wayne Gretzky that's the cultural icon here.
A single graduate student writing a single thesis about Tim's does not make Tim's a cultural icon. Cultures have more than one person. And are Canadians supposed to be proud it got an Ig Nobel? If buddy had got a publishing deal for his thesis and Canadians had turned it into a bestseller, then you'd have evidence of iconic status.
And then we're told "Tim Hortons' Iced Cappuccino are extremely popular." Well, so is cocaine. Is that a cultural icon, too? Incidentally, I see the sale of even pseudo-cappucino (which is what the Ice Cap is) by a donut shop as definitely contrary to the iconic definition of a donut shop.
And finally "The sign for Tim Horton's in the Canadian dialect of American Sign Language is the same as the sign for donut. This indicates how tied together these concepts are in Canadian culture." No, it doesn't. It shows that Tim's sells donuts. And that's why the "concepts" (I've never thought of either Tim's or donuts as concepts before, but I guess at least at one time they were), as I was saying, that's why the concepts are tied together. If Tim's sells donuts, then people will think of donuts when they think of Tim's. That's scarcely evidence of any special cultural status.
So unless some real evidence of Tim's supposed iconic status is supplied I suggest we take this section out. I'd also suggest that whatever is done the current contents of the section be removed for the reasons I have just given. John FitzGerald 18:44, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with some of what you say.  Although I do believe that Tim's is iconic (I note that on today's CTV news site there is an article on the proposed Tim Hortons in Khandahar, and the article states: "The coffee chain's unique place in Canadian culture and identity should not be underestimated"), some of the examples you've noted are, in fact, irrelevant to the point of the section.  Having said that, I don't agree with all of your comments.  For example, I think the Stan Mikita's joke, and the expectation that most Canadians would get the in-joke, underlines the chain's status among all Canadians, not just Mike Meyers.  Skeezix1000 12:40, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I did change the sentence about how most Canadians consider TIm's a significant part of their national identity and culture. Unless there's some research I'm aware of, that's just hype. I doubt that most Canadians consider TIm's a part of their national identity at all, let alone a significant part. Certainly it's part of Canadian culture, but a significant one? Of course, I'll change ot back if some evidence of these assertions can be supplied. John FitzGerald
I got impatient and just added the arguments above to the cultural icon section. I tried to sound temperate. That's not the ideal solution, but I believe that that section seriously detracted from the article. Any better solution will be warmly welcomed. John FitzGerald 15:10, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improve or remove the cultural icon section 

message: Some of the discussion on this page has been removed, too. Was there a reason for that? Is there an archived talk page? John FitzGerald 19:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  And what happened to the rest of the talk page? 

message: I see that Canadian Tire describes Canadian Tire money as a national cultural fixture. That sounds an apter description for Tim's than cultural icon. So perhaps we could rewrite that section to describe how Tim's is a cultural fixture. John FitzGerald 03:50, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, no one showed any interest in working co-operatively on this section, so I changed it myself. It occurred to me that the section as it originally stood probably constituted original research and should be removed for that reason. What that section should have contained is the results of other people's published and preferably refereed research which provide real evidence of iconic status. I remain willing to work with others to see if a way can be found to deal with this issue more usefully. However, I'm not going to accept reversion to an article which adduces Karla bloody Homolka as an example of a typical Canadian. John FitzGerald 21:06, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible solution for the cultural section 

message: There isn't really much in the photo that relates to Tim Hortons. The Hockey Jersey can't be read, so we can't really see the Tim Hortons logo, or Timbits logo. I don't see how this adds to the article. Decimal10 00:52, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image: A Timbits player in Niagara Falls  

message: Tim Hortons was founded in Canada, but Wendy's (which is an American company) now owns Tim Hortons so wouldn't that make Tim Hortons an American fast food company, and this should be noted in the article? Decimal10 13:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a can of worms.  When Universal was briefly owned by Seagrams, was it a Canadian company, even though it was run in the U.S. and virtually all of its assets were outside Canada's borders?  Now that HBC is owned by an American, does that make it an American company, even though all of its stores are located in Canada?  If you look only at ownership, as some do, you get answers that might seem absurd.  I don't know that there is a right answer to your question.   I would suggest, however, that ownership is not the sole indicia of nationality.  Tim Hortons' head office is in Canada, the vast majority of its locations are in Canada, and it is incorporated in Canada.  I think you'd have a hard time achieving consensus on calling it an American company, but you have raised a good point.  The article does mention that Wendy's is American, and my gut instinct would be to leave it at that. Wendy's is about to divest itself of its remaining stake in Tim Hortons, so 100% of the shares will become widely-held, and after that the quetion is moot.  Skeezix1000 23:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tim Hortons is an American fast food company. 

message: Why has an addition been made including include an extremely insignificant incident at a TH store? It has no relevance to an article about the chain, it is simply a short news story that is long outdated. Unless anyone has an objection in the next few days i will be removing that section of the article.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.72.1.81 (talk • contribs) .
I agree. Why is this in here? If we included every fire/accident/death at a foodservice chain with close to 3,000 outlets, the page would simply be innudated. Pageblank 03:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fire in Store Paragraph

message: I think we need to mention the fact that many people do not like the fact that Tim Hortons dose not recycle the cups they use. It's a well knowen that Tim Hortons cups are put into regular garbage bins, that are eventually picked up by a garbage truck (obviously) and then dumped at a landfill. The cups can easily be recycled, yet Tim Hortons does not offer "recycle bins" in the storess. Tim Hortons offers a 5% discount to any person who use's a travel mug when getting coffee (has to be a Tim Hortons travel mug though), but the thing is they don't promote this or even sign it anywere in any of the stores. 
Take a look at this: http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/about4767.html - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Decimal10 (talk • contribs) .
:That's a good point.  Given how many TH coffees are sold in any given day, and that the technology exists to recycle the cups (Toronto's Green Bin program, for example, accepts used paper cups), the landfill implications are huge.  We need a verifiable source, however, in respect of TH's lack of commitment to recycling, so we can add something to the article. Skeezix1000 12:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I notice that my local Timmy's has put recycling bins in. -Dhodges 00:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed this week, while walking past the TH at Queen and Victoria in Toronto, that the entrance now has a large recycling sign on it.  I didn't go in, and haven't been in a TH in awhile, but it looks like, based on the signage I saw and the bins seen by Dhodges that TH has instituted a new recycling program.   Skeezix1000 21:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tim Hotons does NOT recycle?  

message: I've added a Weasel Word template, because this article is full of Weasel Words, biased to the Tim Hortons company and Canada.
Decimal10 21:57, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you joking??  how is saying that they are plentiful in Canada using weasel words? unless you have a real reason for the tag I plan on removing it... --T-rex 22:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am having trouble seeing examples of the "weasel words" as well. Kukini 22:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The "weasel words" allegation is somewhat perplexing.  Decimal10's latest accusations of bias involve:1. Removal of the reference of Tim Hortons being plentiful in the Northeastern U.S.  He has accused me on my talk page of being anti-American and of trying to take the U.S. "out of the article".  Putting the numerous mentions of the U.S. in the article aside for a moment, the U.S.-plentiful reference was removed because the chain does not saturate the market in the N.E. U.S. (where there are less than 100 outlets in New York State, the state with the most locations) the way it does in most parts of Canada (where there is approx. one outlet per 12,500 persons).2. Decimal10 insists on placing Rudyard Griffiths' critique in a separate section called "Criticism".  Griffiths is not criticizing the chain, but is commenting on those who seek to elevate the chain to cultural icon (and, therefore, I would suggest the para. belongs in the section on Canadian culture, rather than as a stand-alone section separated from the topic to which it pertains).  Based on Decimal10's edit summary ("I added criticism again. The article in the Toronto Star by Rudyard Griffiths IS criticism. The "regular" editors of this page are the most biased people I have ever come across on Wikipedia"), I am not sure that he appreciates the distinction between critiquing the chain and critiquing its alleged cultural status.I am not sure how these two points, or anything else, constitute weasel words.  Comments on these two points would be appreciated, however. Skeezix1000 11:36, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The criticism section should be merged with the cultural importance (something like Some have lamented Timmy's ascent to the status of cultural Icon ) - it isn't a criticism of the store.  For what it's worth, the article is also surprisingly anti-Timmy's, and seems to downplay it's "cultural importence" way too much. WilyD 13:39, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weasel Words 

message: The article formerly read: Tim Hortons "was listed as the third largest coffee chain in the United States in the first quarter of 2006 (after Starbucks and Caribou Coffee)" and the source/reference for this claim read: " "The 10 largest coffee chains in the US", Slashfood, June 11, 2006."
Stickguy rightfully pointed out: "For reasons unknown, Tim Hortons is classified as a "coffee shop" while "donut shops" such as rival Dunkin' Donuts, which has several times the number of U.S. locations of Tim Hortons, are not listed."  
The source for the 3rd largest claim is a blog, which isn't usually a reliable source, although in this case it does cite the L.A. Times for the figures.  The claim does sound dubious, though, and even some of the comments on the blog itself cast doubt on the rankings. I cannot retrieve the original L.A. Times article in which the rankings are allegedly published, to determine what kind of criteria was used (i.e. why would Tim Hortons be included, but not Dunkin Donuts or Einstein Bros, for example, both of which have more U.S. locations than Tims).  
The rankings sound suspect.  Absent someone retrieving the L.A. Times article so that the criteria can be assessed, the claim as to 3rd largest should be removed for the time being.  Skeezix1000 18:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 3rd largest in U.S.

message: Sorry about re-adding it without comment, I quickly scanned page history to first check if there was an edit summary regarding it, but didn't see one.  Turns out it wasn't in the last 50 edits, that's all.  Anyhow, with a section specifically about TH's community involvement, I wouldn't mind seeing an image of a Timbits player (doesn't have to be my image, any one is fine), and even a Tim Hortons camp would be nice.  It'd certainly be of more use than near-identical photographs of restaurants, or an image of a billboard for the company - it's not like Toyota shows billboards for the corporation.  Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead)  20:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I originally removed the image because the picture of the player was taken from the side, and there was not clear "Timbits player" or Tim Hortons logo that could be seen on the jersey of the hockey player, so it really didn't contribute to the article. It could have been a picture of a local team re/max player for all we know. As for the picture's of the retraunts, I think they are important because they show how Tim Hortons has the same design and style at all locations, whether it be in Maine or Ontario. Decimal10 21:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well as the photographer, obviously I can guarantee you that it's a picture of a Timbits player, not a Re/max player :P  I think it served to illustrate the article, if not entirely informative like a picture with the logo would've been.  If I find myself asked to photograph another Timbits hockey game, I'll be sure and get a nice shot of a jersey with the logo - but in the meantime, I personally believe it adds to the article.  shrugs Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead)  23:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Timbits player image

message: For the past few weeks, the article has been edited back and forth, switching the spelling of "doughnuts" to "donuts" and back again.  Rather than continuing these ongoing reversions, I have reverted the spellings back to how they read pre-Sept. 29 (when the doughnut vs. donut back and forth started), and have started this section in an attempt to achieve consensus on the spelling to be used in this article.  See earlier discussion. 
===Survey===
Add "* Doughnut" or "* Donut", followed by an optional explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~.
* At this point, don't care, as long as we pick one and stick with it. Skeezix1000 12:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I've already noted, Wikipedia is not bound by Tim Hortons' own marketing preferences. And by the way, I meant not flipping back and forth between the two spellings within this specific article; I never said or implied that I think all Canadian do(ugh)nut shop chains should necessarily conform to the same spelling. Bearcat 00:35, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Royalguard11, the spelling used by Tim Hortons was noted a long time ago, in the earlier discussion noted above.  Skeezix1000 01:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I looked at that after, and I realize we aren't bound by what Tim Horton's does. I know I've always spelt is Donuts, but if it's spelt the other way, I don't really mind. Just an opinion. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 22:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I've changed it all to donut. Because Tim Hortons does use DONUT, not DOUGHNUT. Check the website. If Tim Hortons says Donut, then it should be donut. Dunkin Donuts ... they use donut, but there is no discussion on that page if it should be donut or doughnut. Even though Donut isn't in the company name, Tim Hortons does use DONUT, so that's what it should be. I think certain people who edit this article often are trying to make this as Canadian as possible. Because Doughnut is the more common spelling in Canada. But again, Tim Hortons does use donut as the spelling.  Decimal10 06:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Decimal10, it is inappropriate (and constitutes vandalism) for you to circumvent this effort at achieving Consensus.  I have reverted your edits.  If you wish to make a contribution to this discussion, in a manner in keeping with WP:Civility, we would welcome your input.  That said, I have left a comment for you on your talk page (User talk:Decimal10#Your vandalism of Tim Hortons) asking you to stop your constant disruptive behaviour.  Thank you.  Skeezix1000 18:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I think WP:MOS#National_varieties_of_English applies to Australian, British, American, Canadian, etc. variations of the language, and doesn't cover corporate marketing decisions.  Having said that, your reference to "Tim Hortons English" made me laugh.  Skeezix1000 23:30, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I recognise that the MOS doesn't dictate this - I was talking about the spirit of the guideline. WilyD 14:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Doughnuts vs. Donuts

message: Add "* Doughnut" or "* Donut", followed by an optional explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~.
* At this point, don't care, as long as we pick one and stick with it. Skeezix1000 12:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I've already noted, Wikipedia is not bound by Tim Hortons' own marketing preferences. And by the way, I meant not flipping back and forth between the two spellings within this specific article; I never said or implied that I think all Canadian do(ugh)nut shop chains should necessarily conform to the same spelling. Bearcat 00:35, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Royalguard11, the spelling used by Tim Hortons was noted a long time ago, in the earlier discussion noted above.  Skeezix1000 01:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I looked at that after, and I realize we aren't bound by what Tim Horton's does. I know I've always spelt is Donuts, but if it's spelt the other way, I don't really mind. Just an opinion. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 22:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I've changed it all to donut. Because Tim Hortons does use DONUT, not DOUGHNUT. Check the website. If Tim Hortons says Donut, then it should be donut. Dunkin Donuts ... they use donut, but there is no discussion on that page if it should be donut or doughnut. Even though Donut isn't in the company name, Tim Hortons does use DONUT, so that's what it should be. I think certain people who edit this article often are trying to make this as Canadian as possible. Because Doughnut is the more common spelling in Canada. But again, Tim Hortons does use donut as the spelling.  Decimal10 06:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Decimal10, it is inappropriate (and constitutes vandalism) for you to circumvent this effort at achieving Consensus.  I have reverted your edits.  If you wish to make a contribution to this discussion, in a manner in keeping with WP:Civility, we would welcome your input.  That said, I have left a comment for you on your talk page (User talk:Decimal10#Your vandalism of Tim Hortons) asking you to stop your constant disruptive behaviour.  Thank you.  Skeezix1000 18:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I think WP:MOS#National_varieties_of_English applies to Australian, British, American, Canadian, etc. variations of the language, and doesn't cover corporate marketing decisions.  Having said that, your reference to "Tim Hortons English" made me laugh.  Skeezix1000 23:30, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I recognise that the MOS doesn't dictate this - I was talking about the spirit of the guideline. WilyD 14:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I just emailed them and got this back:
I would like to thank you for contacting us regarding our Tim Hortons.Please note that we only have locations in Ireland at this time.  Inresponse to your inquiry please note the following locations and theproduct lines offered.  City                    Store Address                         FilterCoffee, Cappuccino and Latté                        DonutsDublin                Mace Mayor St., IFSCYes                                                 YesSpar                  Abbey St. (near Jervis Shopping Centre)Yes                                                 YesSpar                  Grafton St.(opposite Trinity College)No                                                  YesZoo                   Phoenix ParkNo                                                   YesAthlone             SparYes                                                  YesRoscommon     Spar (Petrol Station) Racecourse Rd.                  YesYesCastlebar          Spar (Corrib Oil petrol station) Ring Rd.Yes                                                  YesGalway             Spar Mainguard St.Yes                                                  YesCarlow              Mace (Maxol Station) Hacketstown Rd.              YesYesMidleton           Spar Riversdale, Mill Rd.Yes                                                   Yes We have also developed a relationship with the Tesco supermarket chain andthe following stores currently offer Tim Hortons donuts. City                         Store                               FilterCoffee, Cappuccino and Latté                DonutsArtane                    Tesco                                  NoYesClarehall                 Tesco                                  NoYesClearwater              Tesco                                 NoYesMaynooth               Tesco                                 NoYesDundrum                Tesco                                 NoYes We appreciate your interest in our company and thank you for contacting us. We look forward to serving you again in the near future. Regards,The TDL Group Corp.
But im sure theres one on the M25?
anyhow,this should be added!  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.144.12.216 (talk • contribs) .
:That is important information.  The article already states that Tim Hortons food is available at some stores in the U.K. and Ireland, and clearly the reference to U.K. should be removed. What isn't clear is whether or not these Irish locations constitute separate Tim Hortons outlets or not. Typically, if there is a Tim Hortons counter at, say, your local ESSO gas station or RONA home improvement centre, Tim Hortons counts that as an outlet, even if it is inside another business.  But in those cases, Tims has its own cash and staff are wearing Tim Hortons uniforms.  It is not clear whether or not the U.K. locations are Tim Hortons outlets or not -- is there a separate cash? is there dedicated staff serving Tim Hortons food and drink?  Are these even the proper criteria to determine if they should be considered separate outlets or not? Who knows.  What is clear is that Tim Hortons does not count them as outlets on its own website, and we should probably adopt the same policy for now.  However, there should be a reference to the Irish locations somewhere in the article, and I will update the existing reference.  Skeezix1000 21:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just noticed that the existing reference referred to the Irish locations as "self-serve kiosks", a fact which wasn't sourced, but which might explain why Tims doesn't include them in their outlet count.Skeezix1000 21:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tim Hortons in UK and Ireland