Talk:The Blackstone Hotel

message: I could believe that all Presidents since the 26 or 27th President have stayed there.  However, since it was built in 1910 and the last 26 presidents would include Presidents who were dead when the building was built, we need to clarify this fact.—Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyTheTiger (talk • contribs) 17:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Not 26

message: Antonio, I am sure you're gonna love this. I am sorry, I just had to...
I am hereby failing this article's nomination for the Good Article status for not complying with the following Good Article Criteria:
:GA review (see here for criteria)
#It is reasonably well written.
#:a (prose):  b (MoS): 
#It is factually accurate and verifiable.
#:a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
#It is broad in its coverage.
#:a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
#It follows the neutral point of view policy.
#:a (fair representation):  b (all significant views): 
#It is stable.
#:
#It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
#:a (tagged and captioned):  b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales): 
#Overall: 
#:a Pass/Fail: 
Some more detailed issues, some minor, some more major, in the order I have noticed them not in the order of weight:
# "Popular culture" - the same as in the case of Chicago Theatre - not only is this section improperly named, but also consisting solely of trivia not really necessary in an encyclopedic article. The article mentions the fact that Presidents of the USA and other important figures and celebrities stayed there, and I believe it is enough. You can link to the Emporis page from the "external links" section, commenting that it contains a listing of some of the celebrity guests and events.
## Proper use of the WP:LEAD is to introduce most of the topics that will appear in greater detail in the article.  Actually the exact quote from that page is "summarizing the most important points".  Thus, the fact that this info appeared in the lead is not sufficient.  Especially since this policy page says "significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article". TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 14:33, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Who said anything about the lead? Secondly, the amount of information on a given topic should be decided first, and then its place in the article. So, if something's in the lead, it does not mean it HAS to be expanded upon, perhaps you need to take it out of the lead. Anyway, the main point being - a list like that is trivial, and the other two bits in the section are too, so they should go. PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not at all, but those might not be the only ones, I am not that good at proofreading. I'd use a spellchecker on the final version of the article in due course. PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Again, this was not the point. At least now we know that it's the City of Chicago, and as they go out of their way to tout the hotel as all kinds of everything in this little piece of text, I don't think it's a reliable source in this regard. I mean, if a brochure from the Tourist Board of the City of Flint, Michigan would say it is the "Paris of the Rust Belt", I still don't think it merits a mention in an encyclopedia. PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  Yeah but no - the collection of facts and trivia was just bundled in one paragraph, the prose is still choppy and there is little flow. PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  Still so-so - I will try to rephrase it on my own... PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  Would be good to dig that out whening such fact. PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  International or not, the purpose of photos in an encyclopedia are to illustrate, not decorate. You could claim this is the illustration of the "odd one out" mansard roof, but you can hardly make that out and there is no relevant caption (not to mention the photo is enormous). PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  The City of Chicago is not an independent party when touting their own tourist attractions. And we have no obligation to report ANY party in Wikipedia. PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  It's not like when somebody puts something in writing, it becomes cast in stone. If you really don't understand what I mean here, I'd need much more time than I have to explain the caveats of using sources... That said, it's not like I have the book at hand, so I have no way of checking what the author really said and in what context. PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The city is definitely not independent in this matter, they have to back up their hated landmark declarations. Weigh source material carefully before including. Also that photo violates the MOS on images as well as being clunky and pointless. IvoShandor 22:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  If you don't have more to say, then perhaps it is better to liquidate the underdeveloped section altogether and disperse the information throughout the article? PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  The second time, the name appears in those "" (I forgot how do you call them in English...) - I don't think it is consistent, necesary or justified... PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  Just as a sidenote - this is perhaps the most grave problem with the article, until this can be offset the article cannot become a Good Article IMHO. PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  Please note "great deal" - there was something of a complete refurbishment, if you still think an article merits one, hold on with the nomination until you're done. PrinceGloria 16:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA review 

message: I removed the skyline pic. It pretty much violating the MOS which states not to size images. Also it wasn't very helpful to the article. The Blackstone Hotel (a place I am sure almost no one outside of Chicago is familiar with) is not a prominent feature of the Chicago skyline nor is particularly encyclpedic to include a mostly unrelated photo in the text, especially one so large and unwieldy---I feel sorry for eveyone connecting via dial up from Kenya. The hotel isn't labeled on the photo anyway leaving readers to guess which building is on the far left it is and what exactly is meant by far left. Overall this photo detracted from the article. How about some interior photos, if you can enter, you can shoot (legally anyway). IvoShandor 22:46, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Skyline pic

message: The pop culture section absolutely needs to go as a collection of trivia it does not merit includion in the articlem the president thing can be mentioned in the history. I would never pass a GA that kept a trivia section like this, trivia (no matter what it's called) is, by its very nature, trivial and not notable. IvoShandor 22:51, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically, the way I see this section is, it is a gob of distracting links that aren't very important to the article for the most part. This type of information could likely be found for most famous (or even semi-famous) hotels in any major city. I can bet that the Holiday Inn in downtown St. Louis probably has quite a list of notable guests. What I am saying is, this type of info doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article about a building, it belongs in an advertising brochure. Some of the information about presidents and possibly movies could be relevant in appropriate sections, I will work on this. As far as list of celebrity guests, it serves, utterly, zero function in improving this article. In fact, it takes away from it, much like the oversized skyline picture does by introducing tangential information of questionable relevance and notability. IvoShandor 14:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i tend to agree.  my suggestion would be to limit mentions of individuals to presidents or other heads of state IF the individual can be linked to a significant event that occured at the hotel.  the article is heading in that direction.  as for the remaining "celebrity guests", i could not agree more that the list serves little purposes and distracts from the primary topic.  LurkingInChicago 04:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the Chicago Theatre GAonhold discussion, I was told to beef up such listings.  I would conceed that most hotels that were ever among the elite hotels in any city could add such a list.  I would suggest however, that the presidents stay as the hotel claims to be the "Hotel of Presidents".  I think the movies are interesting and should be added both here and at the movie articles.  Although I could support omitting all non president celebrities, it is notable as the current Mayors favorite hotel. TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM)  23:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the presidents should stay, I would really like to find out more about this. The bookstores here have some interesting stuff about Chicago I would like to add to my library but in the meantime I will visit the public libraries around here and try to dig up more. The movies may well indeed have their place and the article's structure may still undergo a metamorphosis depending on what information comes to light and what gets added in. I added one graf to architecture today, it might need a copy edit as I haven't given it one yet. That's all for now  IvoShandor 19:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pop culture

message: Celebrity guests have included at least 12 U.S. Presidents: Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Woodrow Wilson, Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy, Richard Nixon, and Jimmy Carter. The poet Carl Sandburg celebrated his 75th birthday in this hotel.  Opera tenor Enrico Caruso was present at the opening of the hotel.  Other famous of the hotel have included Rudolph Valentino, Mary Pickford, Douglas Fairbanks Sr., Joan Crawford, Spencer Tracy, Katherine Hepburn, Betty Grable, Tyrone Power, Bette Davis, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Vincent Price, Tennessee Williams, and Truman Capote. Additionally, Mayor of Chicago Richard J. Daley used this hotel for various occasions, including his sons' weddings.
The hotel has been used in the films "The Babe," "The Untouchables," and "The Color of Money."
::Basically, the way I see this section is, it is a gob of distracting links that aren't very important to the article for the most part. This type of information could likely be found for most famous (or even semi-famous) hotels in any major city. I can bet that the Holiday Inn in downtown St. Louis probably has quite a list of notable guests. What I am saying is, this type of info doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article about a building, it belongs in an advertising brochure. Some of the information about presidents and possibly movies could be relevant in appropriate sections, I will work on this. As far as list of celebrity guests, it serves, utterly, zero function in improving this article. In fact, it takes away from it, much like the oversized skyline picture does by introducing tangential information of questionable relevance and notability. IvoShandor 14:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i tend to agree.  my suggestion would be to limit mentions of individuals to presidents or other heads of state IF the individual can be linked to a significant event that occured at the hotel.  the article is heading in that direction.  as for the remaining "celebrity guests", i could not agree more that the list serves little purposes and distracts from the primary topic.  LurkingInChicago 04:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the Chicago Theatre GAonhold discussion, I was told to beef up such listings.  I would conceed that most hotels that were ever among the elite hotels in any city could add such a list.  I would suggest however, that the presidents stay as the hotel claims to be the "Hotel of Presidents".  I think the movies are interesting and should be added both here and at the movie articles.  Although I could support omitting all non president celebrities, it is notable as the current Mayors favorite hotel. TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM)  23:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the presidents should stay, I would really like to find out more about this. The bookstores here have some interesting stuff about Chicago I would like to add to my library but in the meantime I will visit the public libraries around here and try to dig up more. The movies may well indeed have their place and the article's structure may still undergo a metamorphosis depending on what information comes to light and what gets added in. I added one graf to architecture today, it might need a copy edit as I haven't given it one yet. That's all for now  IvoShandor 19:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Popular culture

message: I have made some preliminary tweaks, including removing the pop culture section to the talk page here. I will be expanding the article's architecture section significantly as well as discussing the significance of the building in its own section. I have already removed and added some stuff, never fear if something you think is important is gone right now, this is a work in progress.
In the meantime I would suggest that someone work on an article for the architect, Benjamin Marshall (architect) would be the page to put it on. We have a Marshall and Fox article, so that might be a good place to start. This little project may take me a couple days because if I go too long without writing something about Prairie School or Frank Lloyd Wright my head asplodes. ; ) IvoShandor 14:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems Marshall was a fairly notable individual, hard to believe there isn't an article. I will add him to my to do list and do a thorough search before I endeavor to write it. IvoShandor 08:27, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A little work

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 05:21, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: Couple of ISOs in captions need to be US format. Tony (talk) 14:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  dates 

message: The NYT source says the smoke-filled room is on the ninth floor but I don't think that's right. I've got two sources here, "The Shadow of Blooming Grove" by Russell and "The Teapot Dome Scandal: How Big Oil Bought the Harding White House and Tried to Steal the Country" by McCartney, that say it's rooms 404-410. I stayed in that room once, and can report that it's on the fourth floor. I only stayed in 404, the other rooms are connected but when used as a suite the entrance is at 404. There was a plaque on the door that said this was the room. Might be interesting to track down the original UP story from 1920 and see if it gives a room number. Kendall-K1 (talk) 18:46, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smoke-filled room number 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Renaissance Blackstone Hotel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070410151013/http://www.ci.chi.il.us:80/Landmarks/B/BlackstoneHotel.html to http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Landmarks/B/BlackstoneHotel.html
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 05:36, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Daclassic7 Daclassic7 (talk) 07:11, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blackstone hotel