Talk:Lost (2004 TV series)/Archive 2

message: Most of the information on the survivors is duplicated at Characters of Lost. Whatever information isn't duplicated there should be moved. "Characters of Lost" is better suited this. K1Bond007 05:56, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
:I hadn't found the list on "Characters of Lost" when I changed the "Survivors" section.  After finding it I wasn't comfortable with the "Characters of Lost" page because it lists the count under deaths and Claire's baby isn't a death.  Also, a character count is more trivia then it is information about characters.  I believe that the death information should be part of the individual character bios, but that a tally doesn't belong on "Characters of Lost." --Nosilleg 04:45, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know who added the last two sentences of the following, but it seems absurd.  You people think it should be removed, or is there evidence to support it?
 Second is Ethan Rom, who is first seen hunting with Locke as one of the survivors. However, in "Raised by Another", Hurley discovers that Ethan is not one of the survivors of the plane crash. Ethan's real name is Erwin Rommel, one of the original Nazi's who discovered the Island. Island contains the fountain of youth hence his young features.
Mattlach 18:00, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Looks like someone took care of it.  Gone now. Mattlach 22:10, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Survivors

message: I've removed the following from the page, and include my reasoning:
*One newer theory about Lost is that the events of Lost are an interpretation of the events about the final battle between good and evil foretold in the Book of Revelation. One reason why this could be plausable is that the producers claimed they know how they want to begin and end the series, and that it is just a matter of how many stories they can put in between. Up until this point in the series, there are many interpretations one can make between what has happened on Lost, and what is written in the Book of Revelation.
**This strikes me as a personal theory, and I've removed it for a variety of reasons. In addition to what I cite above concerning the numbers (that is, this shouldn't be a page for individual speculations), the justification of "the producers knowing the start and end" isn't the same as a latter-day retelling of the story. For example, J. Michael Straczynski knew where he wanted to start and end Babylon 5 from the very beginning, and David Chase has also claimed he knows exactly where he wants to take The Sopranos (and yet, he keeps adding seasons, I know). As the poster notes, there are many interpretations, even within this one theory, and I personally feel that this page should not be about what our theories are (could you imagine that page?!... if so, I have a good dozen to add) but what the show has provided, and the reader should be left to draw their own conclusions.
Note, however, that I do draw a distinction between this and the "themes" posting on theories from EW and USA Today and interviews with cast and crew. That is inner circle stuff, from the people directly involved with the production. For example, Damon Lindelof saying what the show is NOT is valuable information. If any disagree, feel free to remove it too or discuss here.
*Also, some believe that the numbers has a biblical significance. The 4 could refer to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and hatch that Locke found could be one of the seals. The number 8 is associated with the Scorpio Zodiac, which could represent a great beast in the sky. The number 23 is sometimes associated as being an important number in the occult. Lastly the number 42 is how long, in months, Satan will reign over Earth according to the Bible.
*However, the 8 itself might not be important, where if you turn the 8 in its side, it becomes the symbol for infinity.
*However, it should be noted that according to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, 42 is The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.
** The section on the numbers is NOT about our interpretations of them, as I note above in Numbers, Numbers, Numbers. These numbers COULD mean any number of things. There's at least one interpretation per fan, if not more (I have at least 6), and speculating on their significance outside of saying "they may mean something, or not" (which we do) is just not what this page should be about. That's what The Fuselage and other fansites are for. In the same vein, Hitchhiker's has NOT been referenced on the show, so including it in this section, which is about the numbers as pertains to the show, is beyond the scope of the section... and unnecessary since that information can be gleaned by reading the page on the number 42, which I linked to in the numbers section. Finally, the inference about eight being important because it's really infinity strikes me as being of very dubious value. Even if you disagree with that point, however, it again doesn't relate to references on the show itself, which is, again, what this section is ultimately about. --Baryonyx 07:37, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)
On May 5th, I also removed:
*Another possible explanation is that the number 23 could be a reference to The 23 enigma and the concept of Synchronicity, and that the number 42 has signifigance in Judaism, Christianity, and the ancient Egyptian Religion.
::Again... this information can be acquired by clicking on the wikified numbers. While we are having a debate in duplication on information in the show's subpages, I realize I may be hypocritical saying, "Do not duplicate information already contained in the pages about a specific number." However, I feel that duplication of information about the show on the different subpages is inevitable, but recreating the contents of pages which have purpose outside the show (like the numbers) must not be done. And, what's more, if this information is NOT present on a page about the numbers, it belongs there and not here.
:: Also, note that that last entry at the end of the numbers section is not proposing a theory on the meaning of the numbers within the show's mythology, which every other numbers' related entry I've removed has. Instead, it is explaining that the use of these particular numbers may simply be another example of common writer's practices throughout the history of television and film. That is why this section has remained: because it objectively looks at the numbers outside the show's context, and does not advance a theory pertaining to the show's mythos. Baryonyx 15:47, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
On August 27, Leflyman removed from the Themes section:
:"Along this vein of thinking, the Island itself can be thought of as another problematical father figure for all its inhabitants.  Locke’s near-religious acceptance of the Island can be interpreted as something akin to battered victim syndrome. According to a newspaper article on the officially-created website for Charlie's band (site is called "second tour of finland"), Boone's father is not around (either he died or he got divorced from Boone's mother) and Shannon's father (Boone's stepfather) passed away a couple years previous to the plane crash."
The theory part is original research. While the Website referenced is outside the scope of the televised series, and may or may not relate to the actual story, dependent on the writers' whims. LeFlyman 19:41, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Theories and Other Items

message: Though this has already been posted above, I'll reiterate for this very specific example, since I've dealt with it twice today: HHGttG has not in any way been referenced on the show, and therefore, has no business being in a section that is solely concerned with references to the numbers that have appeared in the show. As I have repeatedly said, if we are going to feature POSSIBLE connections to the numbers, then we should give open space to any and every theory about them. I do not want to manage such a page, and I don't think anyone else does either. If one wants to assert a link between 42 in the show's mythos and HHGttG, then by all means, get a confirmation from a creator of the show, or find some reference to the book in the show itself. Baryonyx 02:08, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
I have removed the following creeping original research -- for reasons already explicated by Baryonyx:
*The sum of the differences between the first five numbers in sequence plus the fifth number equals the sixth number. 4+7+1+7=19 and 19+23=42	 -	However, this curiousity is true for any sequnce of numbers 4,x,y,z,23,42. The differences between consecutive numbers in the sequence are x-4,y-x,z-y, and 23-z respectively. Also their sum along with the number 23 is x-4+y-x+z-y+23-z+23 = x-x-x+y-y+z-z+23+23-4 = 0+23+23-4 = 46-4 = 42. In fact, this is due entirely to the fact that 23 is the average of 4 and 42, and as such, any sequence of six numbers where the fifth number is the average of the first and the sixth will provide a similar result.	 -	Take for example the sequence 10,12,14,16,20,30. Since 20 is the average of 30 and 10 ((30+10)/2 = 20), 30 will be the result of the sum of 20 (the fifth number) and the differences of the first 5 numbers. 	 
*Significantly or not, 42 was also the answer to "life the Universe, and everything" in Douglas Adams's Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy series.
--LeFlyman 02:56, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A Note Specifically on 42 and Hitchhiker's

message: In the last episode, we find that in the hatch, there is a long dark vertical shaft with a ladder leading downward, looking similar to a sewer passage from the top of a street; the ladder is broken-off just a little ways down the shaft. The question is: what is down there?
The answer is: Hell.
:Maybe. That's a good reason why Walt warned not to open the hatch. But whatever may be down there has to creat that light that comes on at the end of  Deus Ex Machina. BRO_co03 05:37, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
::There are many theories, the most likely of which is Pandora's Box. Why? In the myth, Pandora opens the box, which supposedly contained evil and hope, and releases the contents. However, she slams it shut from fear. When Locke was questioned on what he thought was inside, he said hope. This could possibly mean that when Pandora shut the box, she left some hope inside.--69.156.204.85 22:49, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inside the "Hatch" 

message: I found a picture hidden on the Oceanic Airlines website. The image appears to be of a crumbled up draft of  an  Exodus: Part 2 script in which the monster is revealed to be:
"HUGE. Mechanical AND biological. Godlike and profane. A massive, multi-tenticled robotic beast resembling a primordial mapinguari ― only partially obscured in a cloud of aerid smoke!"
Black smoke can be seen when Locke, Jack, Hurley, and Kate encounter the monster on their way back from "The Black Rock." In red ink is "NOT YET!" which may imply that this is the monster but should not be revealed yet. BRO_co03 06:07, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
:I think it's tough to call that website canon. A lot of the info on the site conflicts itself and what is on the show and it's difficult to know if that is because it's trying to hint at things or if it's just inaccurate (for example it says that flight 815 left at gate 15 when it actually was gate 23). 
:I also have a hard time believing that after only hinting as to what the monster is on the TV show that they would use a slightly well hidden easter egg on their website to give away the surprise. I think it's more likely a red herring or just a joke, at best some sort of clue to the real answer. 
:BUT... The web site does have a lot of information on it and it could be added in a seperate section or a new page (I'm new here and unsure as to what would be best). There are messages from background characters hidden in the HTML source (which sound like the letters in the bottle that the boat crew took with them). There's a seating chart built in flash that has all sorts of images and info and even a hidden teaser trailer for season two (edited with footage from Season 1, though, as Season 2 hasn't begun filming AFAIK). Mee Ronn 09:02, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Monster 

message: Could the numbers be something as simple as a mystical combination lock? The ship carrying Mira Furlan crashed after they heard the Numbers, and the specific positions of the right people (or the Hurley influenced people) in the right places could have cause an opening into what is to all extents and purposes, the Bermuda Triangle. 
Such a theory does not preclude the Radio signals being able to pass in and out, though garbled (no survivors/we are the survivors of Oceanic Flight...). 
Also, it should be pointed out that since the order the numbers were placed in different revealed areas (the radio transmission, the numbers on the side of the hatch) it can not be ascertained which is the origin and which is a copy. The 'insanity' surrounding the numbers can excuse anything, storytelling wise. --82.6.182.220 23:30, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Combination Lock

message: Suggest a minor change from Lost (2004 television series) to Lost (ABC TV series) or something similar? It just keeps bothering me that i see the "2004" in the title when it'll soon be in its second season and has gone well after 2004. Thunderbrand 21:21, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*What's an ABC TV series? A spelling show? You must be talking American there. Don't forget about the other people in the world who speak English — CuaHL 23:19, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article name 

message: OK, please humour me. I've only seen the pilot of Lost, but...it sounds from the episode summaries (particularly Special) that Walt is like Patrick Danville from Insomnia and, ultimately, The Dark Tower. mat_x 08:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole Stephen King section smacks of Original Research. While there may very well be references to King's writings woven into the plot, these may as likely be ascribed to any of the other numerous similar story concepts. Every writer borrows ideas, consciously or not. Remember, this is an "encyclopedia", not a theory site. Let's leave the analysis and enumeration of references for Lost fan sites devoted to that purpose. It's enough to note that series co-creator Damon Lindelof is a self-admitted Stephen King fan, if that can be sourced-- and I would suggest the entire section be excised. LeFlyman 01:52, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Stephen King]] connections

message: "The series was developed exclusively by ABC: former studio executive Lloyd Braun pitched an idea about a plane crashing on a remote island to series creator J.J. Abrams in January 2004" should perhaps be removed for the time being.
A man by the name of Anthony Spinner filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court alleging that he was hired to write, produce and develop the script some 30 years ago.  He is suing US network ABC and Touchstone Television seeking unspecified damages for breach of contract and fraud, according to trade publication The Hollywood Reporter.
Spinner claims he was hired by Sid and Mary Krofft Productions in 1977 to develop an idea for an ABC series called Lost, about stranded plane crash survivors who encounter strange creatures and dangerous characters. Jachin 12:52, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Created by: Anthony Spinner or Lloyd Braun?

message: Has anyone heard about or can confirm if this so called 'Genetic Mirror Theory' book/theory by Marsille Roussaurealy exists?
See here for details http://www.ericd.net/2005_09_18_blogger_archive.inc#112735774691079919 (The page I found it on.)
If so, this could really be the theory the writers of lost are using to underpin the whole story of Lost. It seems to it quite nicely if its real. 
Can someone please confirm this theory isn't made up and if not, any thoughts on how much it relates to Lost? I did a few Google searches but couldn't find much.  I guess if the Desmond on the island from this weeks episode doesn't remember Jack then it's a big possibility.
Hope I've put this query in the appropriate spot,
Thx 
-- 59.167.67.45 09:02, 22 September 2005
Reads like a fake to me, and smacks of hoax. I find no reference to any "Marsille Roussau" or "Genetic Mirror Theory." In any event, Wikipedia is not the place to propose Original Research like this --LeFlyman 17:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Genetic Mirror Theory?