Talk:Karaite Judaism/Archive 2

message: Hi. The merge looks just ok. In addition, I think that someone ought to write anew this whole article in good English, paying attention to its cohesion and value of information further under titles like 'Spiritual Origin of Karaims(Karaites?)as a belief, History and geography of Karaite societies and enclaves, Recent developments in Karaism, (including proper subtitles of each one, of course.)--BIR 06:26, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looks good so far 

message: Yoshiah, why did you delete the sections on significant Karaites? Jayjg 02:01, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It wasn't deleted, articles were created (if they didn't exist already) because I've started to make articles for many important Karaites in Jewish History, for example Japeth ben Ali. It would be impractical to cover each one within the KJ article, but I did make a List of Important Karaites if anyone has trouble finding them.--Josiah 02:40, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where did the significant Karaites section go? 

message: Jayjg,
If you don't want to accept what Russian Karaites say about their history, that's fine, but I clearly changed it to "Russian Karaites relate that..." for your satisfaction. Before I had known about the former karaim page, it had the exact same information. Obviously I didn't conjure the "theory" up out of thin air, or it wouldn't have been there. It is no more a "speculation" then the idea that Jews denied being such during the Holocaust, or other periods of persecution. The fact that marriages between Rabbanites and Karaites continued in Russia should be proof enough.--Josiah 19:28, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Where do Russian Karaites say this? Jayjg 20:39, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: There aren't any Russian Karaite pages on the web as of now. I had begun developing one for one of their Hakhams, but he fell ill and is just now starting to resume normal life. I can, however, reproduce discussions from our discussion groups.--Josiah 21:09, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not a place for original research; see Wikipedia:No original research.  If someone has already published the theories you are promoting, then please go ahead and cite them here. And no, discussions on bulletin boards do not constitute publication. Jayjg 21:50, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you're forcing me to get off my butt and scour the net for evidence to your liking. I found some: "In order to avoid the disabilities imposed upon Rabbinite Jews, the Karaites of Russia attempted to prove that they were guiltless of the execution of Jesus because they were descended from the Lost Ten Tribes and had been settled in the Crimea since the time of Shalmaneser (seventh century B.C.). In particular Abraham Firkovich edited a number of forgeries of inscriptions on tombstones and manuscripts to prove the early date of their settlement in the Crimea. The argument was effective with the Russian government in 1795, when they were exempted from the double taxation imposed upon the Rabbinites, and in 1828, when it obtained for them exemption from military service."--Josiah 23:28, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but it still doesn't prove the claim you are making, that they came to believe these stories, and forgot their true origins!  Where is the proof for that? Jayjg 02:47, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: Is that what you've been objecting to? Oy... This is not something that happened universally, but I believe that should be fairly easy to find on the web. I'll go look it up now.--Josiah 00:41, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's one from the link you added "The Russian Karaites, in spite of their small numbers, are mentally alert, produce literature in Russian, but also poems in Karaimsk. Mostly they are still guided by Firkovich's theories that they are not Jews, but a few are looking for new religious roots."--Josiah 00:54, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, then shouldn't the article at least directly refer to Firkovich and his activities, rather than being broad and vague as it is now? Jayjg 14:33, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't understand why you view it as "vague", but I'll add a mention of him.--Josiah 01:12, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian Karaites 

message: "Karaites often practice full prostration during prayers" - what does this mean? Jayjg 20:35, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: See --Josiah 22:48, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Did this help, Jayjg?--Josiah 00:57, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, as my edits showed. "Full prostration" in my view really means lying face down on the floor, arms and legs outstretched, but the picture makes it moot. Jayjg 14:35, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Karaites often practice full prostration during prayers 

message: Why split it up into so many sections when most have only one paragraph?--Josiah 18:25, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Because now every section deals with one issue only, and now we can find what we are asking for more easily.--Neria 04:57, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Q 4 Neira 

message: The first sentence of this paragraph doesn't make sense.  I'm wondering if someone can help clean it up. --Viriditas 10:18, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I didn't really look at it closely when the karaim page was merged with this one.--Josiah 15:01, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit: Crimean Karaites