Talk:Hells Angels/Archive 1

message: Perhaps it would be best to start over? --- Light. 02:04, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Total Rewrite Needed?

message: I am the daughter of a founding member of the Hells Angels Motorcycle club. I was disgusted when I read this article. All of my life I have had to explain to people that the men I grew up around including my father are not some notorius criminals. That the media has blown things out of the water. Hunter Thompson said things about the club that were far from true. And other media has done the same, I'm not saying that their the perfect citizens, I know that there are members who do take part in illegal acts, I've met a few. But more than 75% of them are normal people.
One of the members in the charter is a football coach another is a Lawyer, he went to Yale. I know a member in Arkansaw that teaches 5th grade, and you wouldn't guess in a million years that he's some big bad biker.
All I want to make clear is don't beleive anything you read-anywhere, because more often than not what you see and hear is only 1/4 true. I've grown up around the club been raised in the midst of motorcyle rumbles and exhaust fumes. These are good - regular people. Not the durg running, killers i just read about.
I agree not all Hells Angels are badguys. A few people I know are Hells Angels and are nice guys. I'm sure your father isn't part of the club commiting crimes but in a lot of place like Los Angeles, Hell Angels really do all that stuff. It just depends.
Again, www.rob-profile.com stands on truth and merit. Your 75% figure is totalally incorrect. What do you think your Dad is going to tell you, the truth of what the organization is and does. This article is rediculous and probably a joke. You could not be this stupid.
:Where can I buy durgs??? --Cyberman 03:27, September 7, 2005 (UTC)
::At a durg store. Where else? Actually, why didn't you just correct any misspellings and mark them as a minor edit? --Lyle 05:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not, in fact, correct — at least according to wikipedia policy. We want to cite sources, not personal experience. If you could find a reputable source (PhD. dissertation, MSc. thesis, publishing in a peer-review journal, published in a reputable news source) which confirms the things you say, please add such facts to the article, citing where you got your information. (Dissertations and thesis are reviewed by a board of professionals, as are peer-reviewed journal articles, while news sources have fact-checkers and editors). MosheZadka 15:36, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm studying history, and personal experiences are seen as important sources within the history science. The same accounts for anthropology. The war in Iraq was an example of how subjective news sources are. The German and Belgian media gave a completely different view of the Americans then the BBC. This different views became apparent by the subjects they used: do you interview American deserters and Iraqis who lost there family in a bombardment or do you interview cheering Iraqis on the side of the road when you accompany your troops. I don't know any Hells Angels, but i see personal experiences as a source.--Daanschr 21:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

text: You make a good point, but is this person indeed the daughter of a member? I'm sure we all believe she is (at least I do) but the level of certainty is not up to Wikipedia standards. If, for example, she were interviewed by, say, Motorcyclist magazine, they'd do the research to make sure she was the daughter of a founding member, toss in a picture or two of her and her father, name names, etc. Perhaps then her remarks might be included in this article, as they would be more verifiable. --Lyle 05:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I think there are two different authors: the daughter of a founding member of the Hell's Angels, and the son or daughter of a "memeber of a motor cycle club (not the hells angles)". The latter writes in one-sentence paragraphs (which are not formatted as comments to the former's remarks) and signs himself or herself as C.J.V. --Lyle 05:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daughter of a member 

message: I have no further comments on this page!(UTC) 
This page was last modified 00:32, 27 October 2005. All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License (see Copyrights for details).
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129.11.76.229 19:52, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  When You Post a Real Gang - Wikipedia Member's Dispute it - Yet a MC Club is Called a Gang and It Is Accepted   

message: don't like it? change it.
:Dear ***. Are you kidding? These guys are as dangerous as G Gordon Liddy. They kidnapped my next door neibour. The taped him down to a char, shaved his head, broke everything he owned, stole both his cars. Nice Guys! They are easily professional drug addicts. They are 'proported criminals?' They are "alledged?". Alleged? Do you allege Gravity?
"Warning: Alcohol MAY cause intoxication." - Sign in Flordia Gas Station.
:Hi, anon. I respect your opinion, but please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's NPOV policy. As a neutral encyclopedia we must not advocate one point of view over another; rather we report the fact that some sources allege that this group is criminal while others disagree. (BTW, gravity is a pretty contentious subject in the realm of theoretical physics these days; feel free to read the articles on quantum gravity and string theory in your free time.) :) --Bk0 (Talk) 19:34, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  come on 

message: The introduction of this article (the part before the TOC) doesn't say what the Hells Angels actually are. Someone with knowledge on this subject should correct that. -- ironcito 18:07, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction is incomplete 

message: Alright guys, this has gone far enough. This article and indeed this talk page have become something akin to a battleground in which shock-sensationalists and HA aficionados are all too willing to excercise their own belligerence. Can't you all just discuss and contribute without getting so goddamn angry? If, as a community, we cannot pull together - and with at least some semblance of emotional maturity contribute to what I and obviously many others view as an important article - then I vote that it should be deleted. It is, at present, in a sorry, sorry shape. Let's just approach this from a neutral perspective, shall we, and if as nothing more than motorcycle enthusiasts pull together to create a good, coherent and comprehensive article about something which is indisputably important in the history of, among other things, motorcycles, American history and counterculture. --^pirate 17:04, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: I think like many organizations and institutions, perhaps the Hells Angels suffer two reputations, good and bad. Political science and history suggest that a bad organization can persist far easier behind the front of a good organization of the same name. Sometimes the good side prevails and wipes out the bad, and sometimes the opposite happens. The mafia if believed to have begun as rebels against oppression. The Christians generally started out as rebels and free-thinkers, but in time were supplanted by ruthless theocratic institutions. If one investigates the history of the Knights Templars and Freemasons you will find this to be the case as well. The Hebrew were known as both civilizers and destroyers throughout history, and their descendents have been cursed with that dual personality ever since, usually without justification. And look at Muslims! Wisdom and peace overshadowed by oppression and terrorism. So, is it no feasible that criminal gangs masquerade under the Hells Angel name? Many organizations, including gangs, started off with the idea of opposing injustice or oppression, and then are corrupted by their own power. Anyway, food for thought. Jcchat66 18:04, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest that if you have any problems with an individual that you take it up with the mediators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal), and let them rule on the matter. However, if you chose to delete enteries based soley on the fact that they were entered by an individual and doing so without a mediator, you run a 99% risk of being permanently banned.
Keep this in mind.
Rsm99833 07:13, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dual personality. 

message: There are no references to the UK or Australian chapters of HA. It might be good to see some more details about it and maybe something about the Windsor Chapter in the UK?
== All Hells Angels are criminals
For those of you engaging in the immature hero worship of a criminal organization, I just want to say that you are all pretty pathetic.  The Hells Angels are criminals.  Period.
No they're all not criminals and admiring someone who stands up for what they belive in is far from immature hero worship.  If your father got beat down he probably deserved it(and it doesn't sound like the apple fell far from the tree.  Be careful your beating may be next). HA do not go around randomly beating up people because they want to.  If you mind your business they mind theres.  Thats a fact. 
:That is your point of view 70.25.72.192, however it's neither provable, POV, and goes against Wiki's guidlines. Rsm99833 04:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different chapters 

message: :To be brief, the qualifying adjectives before Hells Angels have been switched around constantly. The changes seem to revolve around degrees of criminality from POV negative weasel words "widely considered a criminal organization" to POV positive, merely stating it's just an outlaw motorcycle club - not mentioning even alleged criminal activity. I don't want to quibble but whoever's tugging needs to (and we all need to) agree on something. I like "allegedly a criminal organization" and/or "widely considered to have some criminal elements." Ranieldule 12:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have little opinion on this (other than that we would do better to find someone's published phrase and quote and credit it), but I do believe that my cited information (numbers, name of the 1940s predecessor club) should definitely be there rather than the uncited information it replaced. If someone has other clearly cited numbers, fine, but otherwise, I believe citation wins out here. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  They areweasel words. Going with cited material would definitely beat any quibbling. Ranieldule 12:27, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Introduction Tug of War

message: this is all the news has been talking about on vancoover island, the death of Chris Swann. there is plenty of articles on it, if anybody wants to do some typing, hehehe. 
Victoria times columnist, Parksville/Qualicum The News, Vancouver Sun. sorry about putting this second from the bottom, but i couldn't figure out how to get my comment out of that box. ~~Patrick~~ 19:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  canada - death of Chris Swann 

message: I heard that many of these motorcycle gangs or clubs (such as the Hell's Angels) are racist in member selection. Is this true? 24.82.176.52 06:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The HA are not racists.  They are an equal opportunities employer. FACT. Chump Manbear 08:55, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racism 

message: There's no evidence that any of the rather cryptic references in American Pie refer to the event at Altamont. And the cited reference is just some guy's interpretation of the song. It has no authority, and even contains some factual errors.Heathcliff 23:20, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: American Pie

message: The article mentions that the angels get money from illegal pornography. what exactly does that mean? do they make snuff films? (which are supposed to actually be urban legends) do they make kiddie porn?  if thats what it means, little kid shit, thats real fucked up man. 208.103.184.165 03:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No Angel would abuse a child, I dare say. For whatever reason. My dad used to take me to a HA club when I was a kid, and they wouldn't even bump into me without picking me up and buying me a soda to apologise afterwards. And my dad wasn't even a good friend there, or anything. And I'm not a naive worshipper, I'm aware of the bad things that SOME of them have done. IMHO, the organisation just has a few rotten apples (a few is a relative concept, so don't whine about it in a reply). But even they wouldn't touch a child. --MooNFisH 13:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Illegal Pornography

message: Not commenting on the debate above, but the article is really nothing more than a list of activites (or alledged activities) and contains very little beyond some history. How bout structure, policies, procedures, protocols, ranks, etc. 
As is the article should be renamed "acitivites or alledge of the Hells Angels" or "Hells Angels and the law"....something to this effect. It needs more substance if its to remain a description of the organization.Macutty 02:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Structure

message: After spending some time with this page and reviewing sources many do not meet wikipedia standards and much of the article is OR or uncited entirely. I'll wait for some input but if these things are not cleaned up in the next few days I'm going to supress all of the offending info.
Also, for those adding comments to this page please sign up and for an account and sign your posts with four ~. This is a requirement of posting on wikipedia. Macutty 15:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Un-cited info

message: This is the worst, and the most biased Wiki article that I have ever read. It needs re written by someone with a neutral standing who has sourced all of the facts.
:Care to try finding someone like that? 
:Besides, what's wrong with the existing sources? Respectfully, SamBlob 23:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's wrong with them is that they are incomplete. They only show the 'bad' side of the Angels. And there aren't so many people disputing this article for nothing. --MooNFisH 13:30, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Start Afresh    

message: I removed this from the :Category:Hells Angels page 'cause it shouldn't be there. But the information is really incomplete, so I don't know how to add it to the article..
George Christie Hells Angels Ventura: Longest serving President in Club, National Spokesman.Appeared on 60 minutes with Mike Wallace, History Channel special on Hells Angels with Hunter Thompson. Carried Torch in 1984 Olimpics. Target of many law enforcement agencys. Law suite pending for civil rights violations against Ventura County Fair. Extensive history of Ventura Hells Angels at www.hellsangelsventura.com
--MooNFisH 11:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This was written somewhere..