Talk:Soy allergy

message: I'm not sure whether this can't be merged with allergy. There's a lot of bossing around - remember we are an encyclopedia and not a repository of informational leaflets. The assertion that certain commercial products contain soy needs outside sourcing from a reliable information outlet. JFW | T@lk 14:43, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's merge away, then. JFW | T@lk 12:08, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Heading

message: I removed the following link as the page is no longer there, although the website still exists. --apers0n 18:30, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Broken link

message: I don't understand why there's a citation needed for "As a result, some may be able to tolerate consumption of soy oil, which contains little soy protein." Is it in reference to the fact that Soy oil contains very little protein? That should be self evident, methinks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.79.222.10 (talk) 02:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation Needed?

message: The Soy Allergy symptoms are quite common, I frequently meet people at grocery stores who ask "Oh, do you have a soy allergy?  My son/husband has a soy allergy!  I never paid attention in what was in my food until we discovered this!"
Personally, trace amounts of soy give me severe headaches, nausea, and loss of energy.  These symptoms were a severe problem for over 10 years, until I was diagnosed through lab-tests on my blood samples.  Other symptoms include "Teczema, itching, hives, fainting, dizziness, tingling of the lips, tongue or throat, wheezing, chest tightness, abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea or nausea"
http://www.livestrong.com/article/343937-hydrolyzed-soy-protein-and-allergies/
I am new to wikipedia, so I am not quite familiar with the proper procedure for making these edits myself.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MysterieXX (talk • contribs) 17:49, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soy Allergy 

message: It was noted more than 5 years ago that there is no real reason for this to exist as a separate entity from the general category of "allergies".  All the reasons originally cited are still true.  Please merge.
Also, citing "livestrong.com" as a source is not something that should be taken seriously.  The amount of psuedoscience and crap on that website is enough to make me wonder if Lance Armstrong actually has any real control over it at all.  There's so much out and out false information on that site that when I see it pop up in a search engine I automatically ignore it.  To give a specific example:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/164362-difference-between-citric-acid-and-ascorbic-acid
Wherein the writer, a "professional" approved by livestrong.com as qualified to write articles on health subjects (she has a BA in english secondary education and works at Best Buy), makes the claim that ascorbic acid is an artificially produced chemical that does not occur in nature and which "interferes with the absorption of Vitamin C" - the more ascorbic acid in your diet, sez she, the less "natural" Vitamin C your body can absorb.
Well of COURSE.  Since ascorbic acid IS VITAMIN C!
So if we're going to provide sources to prove a point, they need to come from a RELIABLE source, and not livestrong.com
So please - merge.  I love wikipedia but it is really getting out of hand these days.  I don't see any reason for this article to exist separately from the general category of "allergies".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.60.99 (talk) 06:53, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree. Six of the eight major/common food allergies (soy, tree nut, peanut, milk, egg, wheat) each have a separate article, and it should stay that way. Fish and shellfish should be created as separate articles rather than redirecting to Food allergy. David notMD (talk) 17:02, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seriously, merge this into "allergies' 

message: Conducting major rewrite and re-referencing of the entire article, with intent to nominate for Good Article. Started at 6,000 bytes. Some of the content copied from the Allergy and Food allergy articles, with attribution to those sources. Some of the content is copied from what I wrote for the Egg allergy and Milk allergy articles. No conflict of interest. David notMD (talk) 11:55, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major re-write 

message: Non-IgE mediated reactions can manifest as gastrointestinal symptoms, especially in infants and young children. The gastrointestinal symptoms include chronic diarrhea, blood in the stools, gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), constipation, chronic vomiting and colic. Diarrhea and vomiting can lead to dehydration. If not diagnosed, continued infant feeding with soy protein formula can lead to iron deficiency anemia, protein-losing enteropathy with hypoalbuminemia and poor growth. Collectively, the gastrointestinal symptoms are described as food protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome (FPIES). In addition to soy, common trigger foods are cow's milk, rice and cereal grains.
This paragraph must be adjusted. I have little time now, so I moved it to the discussion. This reference makes a very clear explanation. PMID 25316115 (Full text). There are at least three gastrointestinal clinical conditions caused by non-IgE-mediated food allergy: the food protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome, the food protein-induced proctocolitis, and the food protein-induced enteropathies.  In the pediatric population, non-IgE-mediated food allergy is mainly due to cow’s milk protein hypersensitivity (CMPH) but also soya (most common triggers). --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 11:56, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I will review the text and references - including your recommended PMID 25316116 - before returning any content to the article spaces at Milk allergy and Soy allergy. I agree that what I wrote lumped all non-IgE symptoms into FPIES, whereas your note points out that non-IgE may be better described as encompassing  FPIES, proctocolitis and enteropathies. If you fix the articles before I can get to them, I would be happy with that. David notMD (talk) 12:17, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: A more recent ref, of 2017 PMID 29138990 Non-IgE-mediated Adverse Food Reactions. Is not free-access but I can send you the paper if you want it. Best regards. --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 12:29, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not just food protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome 

message: Created section on cross-reactivity with dairy. Older sci lit supports idea of lactating mothers stopping consumption of dairy if their nursing infants have allergic symptoms, but the more recent reviews have backed away from this recommendation. Its confusing because there are withdrawn Cochrane reviews. The evidence is clearer for infants allergic to milk-based formula being at modest but measurable risk for also reacting to soy protein formula, hence recommendation for hydrolyzed protein formula. There is a bit of pre-clinical research (not added to this article) attempting to show cross-reactivity due to similarity in protein structure. In the non-scientific literature (websites, blogs) there is a common acceptance of milk soy protein intolerance, referred to as MSPI, with recommendations that nursing mothers avoid both foods. David notMD (talk) 13:04, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Revised to be closer to what is now in the Milk allergy article. David notMD (talk) 18:02, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on cross-reactivity with dairy 

message: I want to avoid an edit war. However, content recently (Oct 2019) added to the article in my opinion goes beyond what should be in this article. I would prefer to see a discussion here rather than what is going on now. David notMD (talk) 15:44, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I am against including mention of citric acid in this article. Citric acid is manufactured from monosaccharides. It is a highly purified product, extremely unlikely to include any intact protein, denatured protein or allergenic protein fragments from whatever plant source the sugars were extracted from. The fact that a 1995 journal article showed that it was possible to ferment okara (a soy waste product) to make citric acid does not mean this is a commercial source of citric acid. However, Okara should remain in the list of soy containing foods because in Asian cuisine it is used as an ingredient. David notMD (talk) 10:13, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Citing citric acid extracted from citrus fruits as allergenic does not justify mentioning okara-sourced citric acid as an allergen risk in this article. Citric acid is extracted from citrus fruits in a simple process that can inadvertently include citrus proteins. When monosaccharide sources such as molasses are used to synthesize citric acid the chemical process is entirely different, and does not transfer proteins or protein fragments. Okara is not even a good monosaccharide source, so commercial use of it for manufacturing citric acid does not take place.  David notMD (talk) 10:25, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This 2013 ref is a good review of what is being done with okara. http://downloads.hindawi.com/archive/2013/423590.pdf  No mention of being used for citric acid synthesis. David notMD (talk) 10:38, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I am the one who was trying to get Citric Acid added to the article, based on actual allergic reactions in myself and others with severe soy allergies, but I see the research is not there yet.  Thanks for looking into it, I will stop trying to add citric acid.--Shanefiddle (talk) 23:33, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

text: The general practice with food allergies is for affected individuals to avoid eating that substance, and avoid all foods sourced from that substance. We can clearly state that the FDA requires labeling of certain soy products, and does not require allergen labeling on other soybean derived products, and why they have done so.  I think we can also easily and honestly list food ingredients that are made from soybeans.  "Natural" Vitamin E is listed on a number of manufacturer's websites as being made from soy oil at this time. My feeling is we should not be withholding this information. People will make their own choices in consultation with their doctor.   --Shanefiddle (talk) 23:15, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  New content goes beyond what belongs in the article 

message: Not sure about this content:
"In 1995 a process to make citric acid from soy was introduced in Asia which uses okara, a waste product from tofu manufacturing. However, citric acid is considered “GRAS” (Generally Recognized As Safe) by the United States Food and Drug Administration without restriction as to the quantity of use within good manufacturing practice, and is not subject to allergy labelling requirements.
People with a confirmed soy allergy should avoid all foods containing soy-sourced ingredients, according to the Mayo Clinic."
Some of the refs do not even mention soy...
Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 10:04, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I am against including mention of citric acid in this article. Citric acid is manufactured from monosaccharides. It is a highly purified product, extremely unlikely to include any intact protein, denatured protein or allergenic protein fragments from whatever plant source the sugars were extracted from. The fact that a 1995 journal article showed that it was possible to ferment okara (a soy waste product) to make citric acid does not mean this is a commercial source of citric acid. However, Okara should remain in the list of soy containing foods because in Asian cuisine it is used as an ingredient. David notMD (talk) 10:13, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Citing citric acid extracted from citrus fruits as allergenic does not justify mentioning okara-sourced citric acid as an allergen risk in this article. Citric acid is extracted from citrus fruits in a simple process that can inadvertently include citrus proteins. When monosaccharide sources such as molasses are used to synthesize citric acid the chemical process is entirely different, and does not transfer proteins or protein fragments. Okara is not even a good monosaccharide source, so commercial use of it for manufacturing citric acid does not take place.  David notMD (talk) 10:25, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This 2013 ref is a good review of what is being done with okara. http://downloads.hindawi.com/archive/2013/423590.pdf  No mention of being used for citric acid synthesis. David notMD (talk) 10:38, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I am the one who was trying to get Citric Acid added to the article, based on actual allergic reactions in myself and others with severe soy allergies, but I see the research is not there yet.  Thanks for looking into it, I will stop trying to add citric acid.--Shanefiddle (talk) 23:33, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Citric acid

message: I have twice deleted mention of vitamin E as a possible trigger for soy allergy. For natural (as opposed to synthetic) vitamin E, the vitamin is extracted from purified soybean oil. The reference that was provided as justification for including vitamin E in the list of Less-allergenic soy derivatives actually confirms the opposite - that no soy proteins were detectable in soybean oil sourced vitamin E. Unless there is clear published evidence to the contrary, vitamin E should not be added to the article. David notMD (talk) 20:44, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The general practice with food allergies is for affected individuals to avoid eating that substance, and avoid all foods sourced from that substance. We can clearly state that the FDA requires labeling of certain soy products, and does not require allergen labeling on other soybean derived products, and why they have done so.  I think we can also easily and honestly list food ingredients that are made from soybeans.  "Natural" Vitamin E is listed on a number of manufacturer's websites as being made from soy oil at this time. My feeling is we should not be withholding this information. People will make their own choices in consultation with their doctor.   --Shanefiddle (talk) 23:15, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Vitamin E

message: What was Cause now a subsection under Treatment titled Avoiding soy. This matches the positioning of soy-containing foods and food ingredients to what is Good Articles Milk allergy and Egg allergy. David notMD (talk) 17:57, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved and renamed Cause section 

message: I just added a sub-section about soy allergen labeling, to share further information about what products the law requires to have an allergen warning, and what products the law does not. --Shanefiddle (talk) 06:04, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: David notMD rewrote this section using other wikipedia articles as a blueprint, and incorporated the info and sources I had started with.  Nice work, it is a lot more detailed now.--Shanefiddle (talk) 23:34, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soy allergen labeling laws 

message: There is a related illness, Soy Intolerance.  Does this need to be mentioned in a section of the soy allergy article?  It involves a different set of responses in the body, but often expresses itself with similar symptoms.--Shanefiddle (talk) 00:08, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soy Intolerance Section 

message: We may need a short section on Soy based FPIES, and a link to the FPIES wikipedia article. It can easily be confused with a soy allergy, but expresses itself slightly differently.  Here is a source of information: https://www.fpies.org --Shanefiddle (talk) 01:33, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: FPIES already Wikilinked in the Signs and symptoms section. David notMD (talk) 15:44, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for pointing that out David.  I see it is there. Much of that section is pretty impenetrable to a layperson such as myself, we probably need to work on that.  Do we need to add a section for FPIES in symptoms too?  The symptoms are different than a standard soy allergy.  Also, testing for FPIES cannot be done in the standard way, since a skin test elicits no allergic response.   Shanefiddle (talk) 18:32, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: First, indent comments on the last comment by adding one more of : at the beginning. Given the Wikilink to food protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome, and the fact that FPIES is not unique to soy allergy, there is no need to elaborate on what FPIES is in this article. David notMD (talk) 19:59, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, will do.  I have done some formatting in the Signs and symptoms section to try to make it clearer and easier to understand for non-professionals. Added an additional symptom for FPIES and an additional source. Also, I notice that the links to FPIAP and FPE soy allergies are dead ends - those pages do not exist --Shanefiddle (talk) 22:07, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Creating a red Wikilink by double-bracketing a word or phrase that does not link to an existing article is an accepted means of suggesting that an article needs to be created. David notMD (talk) 23:42, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section relating to FPIES? 

message: Would someone who has not been involved in extensive editing of this article decide whether it can be upgraded from Start-class? David notMD (talk) 18:51, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Have been evaluating and reviewing sources. Certainly beyond 'Start', and also certainly not to 'B' standards. --Zefr (talk) 20:50, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Zefr. I have been contributing to this article, and am still learning to navigate Wikipedia editing culture.  Could you explain what needs to be done to bring it up to 'B' standards in your opinion?  I'd find that very useful.--Shanefiddle (talk) 05:42, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Shanefiddle: I put some description on your Talk page, including link Wikipedia:Content assessment for guidelines. David notMD (talk) 12:30, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that shortening the article - primarily by removing content that had undue weight or pertained to food allergies in general rather than specifically soy allergy - merited the revision from C-class to B-class. David notMD (talk) 20:58, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  No longer Start-class? 

message: I am wrestling with this excerpt from the section, mainly for 3 reasons: 1) "avoiding soy" impresses as advice, WP:NOTADVICE, which states: "Describing to the reader how people or things use or do something is encyclopedic; instructing the reader in the imperative mood about how to use (my edit: or not use) or do something is not," 2) the advice becomes highly specific to 4 high-volume restaurants and 4 mainstream canned product manufacturers by citing their menus or labels, a blatant example of WP:CHERRYPICKING, and could be interpreted by readers as Wikipedia's general advice to avoid these restaurants and products. It is also not possible to know the amounts of soy protein present in these foods, so by allowing the text and sources to stand, it impresses as bias against certain vendors, not adhering to a WP:NPOV. That is why I preferred the 2019 Today's Dietitian general source (below ref list) and removed the vendor-specific content which was reinstated by ; 3) related to point 2, keeping in mind that some soy allergy occurs in just 0.3% of the population, and severe enough allergy to avoid restaurants and products is a fraction of that, indicates that this section needs more careful and neutral wording to state cautions for this allergy, and that some soy foods are a concern only for a small, specific number of people. General statements and sources are preferred, in my opinion. --Zefr (talk) 16:27, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: (Excerpted text and sources): In many countries, food labels are required to list ingredients, and soy is identified as an allergen. Many fast-food restaurants commonly use soy protein in hamburger buns (soy flour), or as substitute meat (soy protein) preparations. Also, many restaurants state that cross-contamination in their kitchens or buffet lines may occur due to shared utensils and frying oil, and cannot guarantee their food is free from allergens. Canned fish and meat may also contain vegetable broth which contains soy protein. 
I concur that this has become an an overly detailed and referenced section. I believe that Shanefiddle is editing in good faith - from the perspective of a person with a severe soy allergy - but that as a result this content represents excessive detail, and as Zefr noted, in the form of advice rather than information. David notMD (talk) 16:42, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section: Avoiding soy