Talk:Argentina–Brazil football rivalry

message: The article has a number of things missing.
# The incident of the contaminated bottles (Pinchex, that's your beloved Bilardo's bidon)
# Cites from footballers of boths sides describing the importance of the rivalry
# Pictures of games, grafitties, etc...
# Maradona vs. Pele rivalry (an article of its own?)   Cites:Figo Ronaldinho
Mariano(t/c) 10:28, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What about the Rocca Cup (Copa Rocca)? It was a trophy played in anual basis between Argentina and Brazil, from the 10's to the 70's. There's not a single mention about that in the article. marceloschleder Talk 18:11, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have sources, please add, we need it! Sebastian Kessel Talk 18:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Help

message: On one match in the late 60s, Pelé was playing very good—even by his high standards—and a frustrated Argentina fan shouted: Ché negro, teléfono ("Black [man], phone call [for you]").
:Note: The usage of "negro" is not necessarily a racial slur in Argentina; many use it as a term of endearment; this is also true for Brazilians, who will often shorten it to "nego".
Don't play stupid, Argentinian.^  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.70.182.24 (talk) 14:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Calls by fans during matches

message: Some Argentine press (such as diaries Crónica and Diario Popular) have insisted in calling Brazilian football teams macacos ("monkeys"), but the term never caught with the general public. On the other hand, some of the fans' Anti-Brazilian songs do refer to the "blacker" nature of the Brazilian team.
:Huh? I never ever read something like that, and I lived in Argentina for 25 years! Sebastian Kessel Talk 21:14, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The usage of "macacos" in the "popular" press was quite consistent during the 70s and 80s. Maybe it declined later. As for the songs... the "Siga el baile" candombe was used for quite a while, as well as another song derived from Palito Ortega's Caradura... elpincha 16:41, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I meant just the "macacos", but you're right, I barely remember the early 80s (Was born in '77). Sebastian Kessel Talk 17:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a curiosity: Is it legal to be that young? Seriously now: since Argentina and Brazil had some geopolitical issues (which, ahem, subsided with the creation of Mercosur) it is not altogether impossible that some Argentine governments, especially de-facto ones, fueled anti-Brazilian sentiment through the press. The "macacos" stuff was aimed at less-educated classes, while oblique allusions to Itamaraty's "dark designs" were written on the more serious press. That much I remember clearly from the Proceso days, and could be validated by anybody caring to go to a library and read the stuff. elpincha 09:46, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At least they let me drink beer! :) Re: the allegations, I believe you, I wouldn't put anything past the Proceso goons... they were pretty much capable of doing any evil you accuse them of. :( Sebastian Kessel Talk 18:49, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Usage of "macacos" in Argentina

message: (Warning: POV). Many Argentines who are of the opinion that Maradona was greater than Pelé are willing to admit that Ronaldinho may possibly surpass both as the greatest player of all time.
:Like who? He is great but I don't believe any Argentine fan (and never heard of one that does) will ever admit that a Brazilian can possibly be better than Maradona. Sebastian Kessel Talk 21:16, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Like, em, about half the argies I know... maybe the age and the distance are mellowing us. But maybe we should just "leave it there", as Bernardo Neustadt would say... elpincha 11:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow... I must be younger that I thought... LOL!!! Sebastian Kessel Talk 18:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ronaldinho

message: Section looks like crystal-balling. Remove? Conscious 10:36, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (Personal opinion) Yeah, or at least edit for relevance... elpincha 11:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

text: The section is even POV, and does not give any information. I'm deleting it. Mariano(t/c) 11:50, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rivals For The New Millenium 

message: The title of this article is Argentina vs. Brazil.
Logos with the opposite positions : Brazil and Argentina...always respecting both countries...regardsCloretti2 23:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Names and logos are usually sorted alphabetically. I'm sorry for Zimbabwe, but that's the only logical thing to do. What's more, having the logos opposite might confuse the reader. Secondly, wether I agree or not, there's the idea that such logos (which are used under the fair use license) are not to be used for decoration. Mariano(t/c) 07:07, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Title with Argentina and Brazil

message: Hello people, I just created the Macaquitos article, an old infamous argentine offensive joke against Brazilians. --Celso Daniel 21:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macaquitos 

message: While reading the Incidents section of the article, I realized how all of the incidents defend the National Football team of Argentina and it seems to imply that Brazil has only won because of chance. Mariano seems to be the main editor of this article and his affiliation with the national team of Argentina would naturally cause him to defend the Argentineans and try and refute the Brazilian successes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cuenca (talk • contribs).
:I now I'm an Argie, but I've tried to show both sides of the coin; from the Argentine media insults to Maradona's vicious kick. What's more, the article is hevily based on this Brazilian web page, which doesn't even include the Galindez' special incident. You fail to point out any biased part of the article, nor any missing subject. Please, be constructive and tell us at least what is the article missing, and what is it that you think should be rephrased. Until then, I will remove the  tag you added. Thanks, Mariano(t/c) 07:42, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bias

message: I removed "This is perhaps due to a greater proportion of Brazillian footballers playing with overseas clubs." on Argentina having better results in South America, sicne this is not only unsourced to be true (I actually doubt it), and second, it is especulation. Argentinians have been playing in Europe since the beggining of the 20th century, several even nationalized Italian and played for other countries. There's also no need to tell that a huge number of Argentine players currently play abroad, perhaps as many as in Brazil, with a population 4 or 5 times smaller. Mariano(t/c) 13:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazilians abroad 

message: Pretty much all of the incidents are all obviosly tilted towards Argentina. The Pele-Maradona rivalry section does not take into account the claims by many observers that many TV stations and Newspapers urged Argentines to vote for Maradona in the Fifa awards, with one TV station even giving free internet access, leading to claims of rigging.Nor does it mention countless other polls where Pele has come in front. And besides, most footballing expers will tell you it is unfair to compare them. Maradona was an Attacking Midfielder come supporting striker, while Pele was a deep lying forward.
And can someone add the number of matches played, and who has come out in front?
::Completely agree, the incidents section is ridiculous, was it written by and argentine? I will erase it and continue to do so for it is deliberately biased. It is incredible that in all that Brazil is always the villain.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.26.73.179 (talk) 02:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know nothing of the history but Brazil is certainly not always the villain as it has been written. In the first 3 incidents that you have deleted Argentina come out worse. It is of course possible that other important information has been missed out of these sections, if this is the case you should try to find references for this. I'm tempted to restore much of this, particularly the parts that already have references. JMiall₰ 08:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the incidents section is hiding lot of things, for example the 1996 Ole newspaper called Brazilians again "macacos" (monkeys) and there is no ref about it. --Ciao 90 (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible Bias 

message: Panamerican Championship is completely different from "Football at Pan American Games". First because it isn't played by adult teams, second because "Football at Pan American Games" is a competition that is part of the Pan American games that are disputed since 1951.
The Panamerican Championship is almost the same tournament as is today's Copa America (South America countries with some CONCACAFs countries). This tournament was played by adult selections, unlike the "Football at Pan American Games", and in my opinion I think we should put it in the same row of Copa America.--Italodal (talk) 05:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Your opinion is valid. But before you make changes, write in the discussion page, as you did, but wait the opinion of the others editors to achieve a consensus. Thank's.--Italodal (talk) 06:42, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

text: The table wasn't built to show all the tournaments. In fact, Panamerican Championship and Copa America are two different tournaments, but Artemio Cup and the Confederations Cup are also different. At the Club Level, the Copa Sudamericana is different from Mercosur, which is another competition when compared with the CONMEBOL Cup, but they are all in the same row. If you will separate all the competitions, you would have more lines and the article would be much more confusing. The purpose of the table is put similar tournaments and with same importance in the same row, is because that for exemple the World Cup is separated from the Copa America , but the Panamerican Championship doesn't.--Italodal (talk) 06:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move Panamerican Championship to Copa America row 

message: Due to several championships created, and many of them extinct, the table of titles at club level is very confusing. It's difficult to know which cup is official and what is the importance of each cup. According to Conmebol, the following championships are official:
-FIFA World Club Championship
-Intercontinental Cup 
-Copa Libertadores
-Copa Sudamericana
-Copa CONMEBOL 
-Copa Mercosur 
-Supercopa Sudamericana 
-Recopa Sudamericana
-Copa Interamericana
-Copa Oro 
-Supercopa Masters 
-Copa Masters Conmebol 
-Recopa Intercontinental(Supercopa de Campeones Intercontinentales)
-Copa Ganadores de Copa
Plus the newer Suruga Bank Championship
All of these championships must be in the table. However is hard to sort the minor cups by their importance level. I suggest to follow the Conmebol's ranking: http://www.conmebol.com/ranking_index.jsp?slangab=S
The cups which have similar weight should be in the same section.
The Copa Oro, Supercopa Masters, Copa Masters Conmebol and the Copa Interamericana have a weight of 15 points. The Copa Ganadores de Copa and the Recopa Intercontinental(Supercopa de Campeones Intercontinentales) have a weight of 10 points. All those cups should be in the same section because they have almost the same weight.
Conmebol didn't range the Suruga Bank Championship yet, but I think it has the same weight of the minor cups above. However, maybe it shoud be in a different section because this cup isn't defuncted.--Italodal (talk) 06:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Club Level 

message: Regarding above subject kindly find the correct information
Brasil and Argentina met each other till 28th sept.2011, 98 times
Brasil won 39 match , scored 152 goals
Argentina won 35 match,scored 150 goals
Draw took place in 24 match
The above result considering matches finished with penalty kicks as DRAW,but if it is considered as winner and looser, then Brasil won 42,Argentina 36 ,Draw 20 match.
Thanks
Designce (talk) 09:54, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction of Brasil argentina head to head 

message: Someone add "brazilian soft drink.
Maradona is pleased that it was all a dream and remarks that he perhaps drank too many Guaranas". 108.54.62.227 (talk) 02:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re:Football Culture 

message: Officialy he has scored "only" 794. This article should not perpetuate the myth of the "1000 gols".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.15.67.219 (talk) 22:10, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of Goals Pelé Scored 

message: based on this world cup (2014)
their conjecture is irrelevant. every other section in this passage has actual matches. there is no match this time, so adding a section to speculate about what happened in the semis is pointless. 1 we could speculate about their rivalry in every world cup. without matches its irrelevant. 2 we are just showing bias to the contemporary and bias to conjecture. 
yes, the tournament is in brazil, which throws up some interesting questions as argentina have made it and brazil have not. but no, this hardly seems to be relevant to a section about two teams that always hate each other, and has until now be focused on their matches. 77.100.67.56 (talk) 11:50, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally agree. No match between Argentina and Brazil. It must be pulled from this section. --LuchoCanalla (talk) 22:56, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone added a new chapter to the Incidents and historical matches

message: 36 for Brazil, 36 for Argentina, the rest (25) are ties, 300 Goals Scored, 152 for Argentina, 148 for Brazil?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.45.44.57 (talk) 23:23, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  I am counting, and I only see 97 

message: Hello, there's been some recent vandalism from a user with this account (119.30.35.78). He makes malicious edits on this three pages (Argentina national football team, Argentina–Brazil football rivalry and Roca Cup), by posting a false result from a game that never happened and using a false link that redirects to a dead website. Hope some measures could be taken by a mod. Thanks!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.133.166.106 (talk) 18:44, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Change the number of goals and winner in result section. That is currently it is
Date:13 December 1925,Venue:Argentina Buenos Aires	Score:90-1 Winner:Brazil	Comments:1925 Sudamericano
Edit the Score:4-1 and winner is Argentina 2405:204:D380:ABF9:0:0:B81:C8A1 (talk) 10:39, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for picking up on this. TeraTIX 13:53, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 July 2018 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: What measures could be taken to prevent the huge amount of vandalism that this article has suffered? Often the numbers of matches are changed in order to just mess up the statistics.Svartner (talk) 08:52, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's all coming from one person, since the problematic edits come from IP addresses that begin with 2409:4073, and they seem to have a similar POV in other Seleção-related articles. I know Wikipedia is hesitant to block entire dynamic IP ranges, but we can request protection if the edits are truly problematic. Ytoyoda (talk) 11:52, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

text: Please consider commenting at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Dynamic IP introducing errors, copyvio and unsourced edits in Brazil footy-related articles. Thanks. Ytoyoda (talk) 16:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recurrent vandalism 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: — Assignment last updated by HornNest (talk) 14:57, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: History of Argentina, Brazil, and Chile

message: Hello. As I said a few days ago (more than a week) I waited here in the talk page to see if we could reach an agreement according to reach a solution in the count of matches in the article. Unfortunately, as it´s happened a fewe months ago, nobody came to say anything, so I made a hard work to show the 3 versions of the count of matches of this article. 
As I proved in this talk page a lot of times, there are a few sources that say they are tied (included one FIFA´s source), a lot of sources that say Argentina leads by one match (including a FIFA´s source whit the complete list of games in history), and a few sources that say Brazil leads by 1 or 2 matches. The article as it was before this new editions, was clarely not neutral: the only version it had was the brazilian one, not seeing those sources (I repeat: 2 from FIFA, the major football association in the world, and one from AFA, the major association in Argentina´s football, with also the full complete list of matches recognized) that had another count of matches. So, I included the 3 versions, to be 100% neutral... It´s is all explained with serious and neutral sources and notes. The reader of the article will have the 3 versions and will know that there is a dispute in the official count of matches. 
PLEASE, do not revert. Correct if there are mistakes of style, or grammatical but not the content. Raúl Quintana Tarufetti (talk) 23:49, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 3 versions of the count of matches