Talk:Sati (practice)/Archive 1

message: Before User:24.52.227.195 at 04:03, 16 July 2005 expanded the text on this page, Suttee was to be found as a subsection of Sati, so look at the edit history of sati for a history of the text before 16 July 2005. --Philip Baird Shearer 18:21, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit history before 16 July 2005

message: I found this to be an excellent article about something I had heard of but knew nothing of.  However it needs some more work to be NPOV.  There seem to be quite a few structural changes, happening so I'm having a hard time following the edit history.  When the content has stabilised, I'll be contributing, but I'll wait in order to avoid edit conflicts.  brenneman(t)(c) 05:26, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: POV/NPOV

message: Can revert to the phonetic spelling for this term - in this case it will probably have to be to Sati (practice)? If wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopaedia, it should try and follow scholarly practice. Apart from that, the spelling suttee is not even the most common term used on the web.  Imc 17:09, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Terminology - Suttee and Sati 

message: The article mentions that about 40 women have performed Sati in modern India.  This should be referenced and modern is unclear, from what year does that refer? Smmurphy 04:46, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My guess is since independence, 1947. But again, on searching, I'm not finding any other than the Roop Kanwar case (one site says it is the only recorded incident in the past 100 years). You're right, it needs a reference. --Pranathi 02:06, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the figure 40 to the article. I remember seeing the figure somewhere, and while I have a number of reference sources, I did not record the source for this one. I don't have the inclination to go hunting for this figure now, so if anyone feels it necessary to amend the article, feel free. The figure was for the number of claimed sati instances, whether some of these would be better described as 'uncomplicated' suicide seems to be disputed. As to Roop Kanwar being the only recorded incident in the last 100 years, I think this is incorrect. I remember coming across at least one uncontested instance in the 1950s (again reference lost). Yes, 'Modern India' was used to mean independent India, perhaps this should be clarified too, though it is a generally understood convention.  Imc 19:53, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I like giving a number, and there is a big difference between 2 and 40.  Right now, we could write something about it occuring less than once per year, but that sounds silly.  Anyway, this source  says that 28 have occured in Rajasthan alone since independence.  And here is a source for the number 40 .  (BTW, to find things like this, I recomend using google print at books.google.com .)  I like the number 28 from Re-Orienting Western Feminisms: Women's Diversity in a Postcolonial World more than 40 from The Rough Guide to India, if only based on the impressiveness of the title.  what does everyone think? Smmurphy 20:19, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I only did a cursory search and one of the few I saw said the Roop Kanwar was the only one. You did a lot of research to put this article in it's current shape, IMC (and bore with my criticism/comments sans work)- Thanks!!(I meant to say this before but never did). Thanks for the tip, Murphy. I suspect I will end up use the site for --Pranathi 02:01, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sati in modern India 

message: The first line is: The practice of sati (also written unphonetically as suttee)...
Shouldn't that be "also written phonetically as suttee"?
The dictionary gives  or .  Isn't that phonetic according to British Received Pronunciation and American Midwestern (TV) English?
:The spelling 'suttee' is phonetic only if you accept the 19th century English orthography as being a phonetic system. I have heard people on the radio pronounce it as in 'sooty'. (There's a certain national British newsreader insists on saying the first vowel in 'Muslim' as in 'must'.) How Indians say sati will in any case differ from the British RP, since the 't' in sati is a flattened dental, as opposed to the alveolar / retroflex consonants British RP and east coast American English. It may be an idea here to put in a reference to IAST; this is a Sanskrit derived name, and the spelling sati is exactly right in this transliteration. Both the IAST article and the associated the National Library at Calcutta romanisation article could do with a pronounciation guide. Imc 10:12, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suttee phonetics 

message: I removed the following sentence. 
:Gandhari, the wife of king Dhritarashtra, also commited sati. (Bhagavata Purana 1.13.58)
This translation of the Bhagavata Purana suggests that she did committ sati. However, accounts of her death in the Mahabharata, state that she, with her husband, Vidura and Kunti, all died together in a forest fire - no sati, just death. Multiple refs exist as to this, including print books, such as Rajagopalachari's translation of the MB, and many retellings on the web. See e.gs
http://www.indolink.com/Kidz/Mbharatpart12.html
http://www.boloji.com/hinduism/086.htm
I'd like to see another translation of the same text of the Bhagavata Purana. It may be that this text might be another of the justifications for sati, best listed with that verse from the Rig Veda. 
Imc 22:04, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Death of Gandhari

message: Purananuru verse 373 (Lines 10-15) was by Kovur Kizar on Cholza king Kulamtrathu Thunjiya Killi Valavan. The poet says that the wives of the deceased soldiers did not find a better place than the feet of their husbands after their death They did not return home, but committed Sati by lighting the firehttps://www.speakingtree.in/blog/aryan-sati-in-sangam-tamil-literatureWorship of Satis is common in the state of Tamilnadu as the Veeramahasati or shortly Veeramathi cult 117.249.203.215 (talk) 01:10, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Sati in [[Tamil Sangam]] literature

message: When the Pandyan King Bhutha Pandya died, his wife Perum Koppendu wanted to commit Sati. But all the Tamil scholars and ministers tried to prevent her from entering the fire. She criticised every one assembled there and then entered the funeral pyre. She told them that the fire is like a cool lotus pond for her. Her statement in the crematorium was reported verbatim in her poem in Sangam literature.
 
: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:49, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2022 

message: Addition to the Culture section: Sati is portrayed in MM Kaye's "The Far Pavillions" (book and TV mini-series).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.81.24 (talk) 23:16, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Far Pavillions 

message: User:Jonathansammy Can you give the page number of the book for your recent edit? 
From A.R. Kulkarni's 'The Marathas' 
 Akshaypatill (talk) 21:16, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Akshaypatill,Sure. Pages 183-184. He spells Shahu as Sahu. There is this other book by Menon as well. 
I hope this helps.Jonathansammy (talk) 22:14, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Akshay Patil, you got the wrong A.R. Kulkarni reference.You should be looking at Kulkarni, A.R., 1996. Satï in the Maratha Country: An Historical Perspective. Images of Women in Maharashtrian Literature and Religion, pp.171-198. Cheers.Jonathansammy (talk) 22:21, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you User:Jonathansammy. I wasn't able to see some pages of the book on Google books, that's why I asked. I can see it now. Both the books are telling the views of G.S. Sardesai. I think A. R. Kulkarni is puting his own view in 'The Marathas'. 'The Marathas' is listed on Oxford Bibliography for history of Maratha rule.. What should we do? Akshaypatill (talk) 04:49, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Hi User:Akshaypatill, Glad that I was able to help. The sources are reliable, and so I don't think anything needs to be done.Regards.Jonathansammy (talk) 14:39, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Jonathansammy I think you are missing my point. A. R. Kulkarni is saying that she willigly became sati while G. S. Sardesai says Nanasaheb forced her. There is conflict between the sources. Akshaypatill (talk) 15:20, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi User:Akshaypatill, you probably were not able to see AR Kulkarni's chapter in Anne Feldhaus' book.There he clearly mentions Peshwa Nanasaheb, and Tarabai pressuring Sakvarbai to commit sati.The Peshwa also ropes in Sakvarbai's brother to put extra pressure.See pages 183-184.  Regards. Jonathansammy (talk) 15:42, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you User:Jonathansammy. I think that page was missing on my Google preview or I missed it somehow. I think A. R. Kulkarni has messed up things. Akshaypatill (talk) 15:55, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi User:Akshaypatill, How did AR Kulkarni mess it up? He clearly says that the Peshwa forced her. Is it the mention of Tarabai causing you problems? That lady was extremely shrewd and ambitious, and she wouldn't have allowed another person to get in her way to attain power.The paper here by Vaidya clearly states the roles played by the Peshwa and Tarabai in  I can quote the relevant text but it is rather long.Regards.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:20, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, User:Jonathansammy. I said messed up because the author has given different accounts of the same incidence in different books. 'The Marathas' and the book you cited was released in 1996. Both of these (the chapter in the book you cited) are writtent by A. R. Kulakarni, but the accounts are different. Check this (From A. R. Kulkarni's 'The Marathas') -   Akshaypatill (talk) 17:24, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

text: User:Fowler&fowler The argument is already over and I agree with JS. I just clarifying my point because JS misunderstood it. Akshaypatill (talk) 04:58, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shahu's wife Sakvarbai 

message: The lede has undue weight in an attempt to whitewash the article. Let's have a little more neutrality. 136.158.58.118 (talk) 09:13, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Read how Wikipedia defines neutrality: WP:NPOV & WP:PROPORTION. --WikiLinuz {talk} 🍁  20:43, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undue weight in the lede 

message: In this fragment "prayers were also performed to the practice of a wife immolating herself" what does the word "to" mean?  Does it mean "alongside", or does it mean "honoring the ideal of"? 24.57.144.66 (talk) 18:59, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does "to" mean here?