Talk:Judeo-Paganism

message: I am currently e-mailing folks for help on this new page, as I don't know as much on this topic as some folks might. I am a Reform Jew (with some interest in Paganism) in the middle of a largely Conservadox enclave at Rutgers University, and am therefore not in as good a position as some others might be (such as Melissa Oringer, for example) to tell the movement's story (if it has a story). Rickyrab 20:22, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Since I started this page, I noticed that a lot of the online references to "Judeo-Paganism" have become sporks of this article. OTOH, I do notice various Judeo-Pagans with weblogs here and there, and the sporks extend to the Pagan Wikipedias that are floating around out there. Have I inadvertently made a hitherto nonnotable topic notable? I dunno. I suspect it may have been notable to begin with, just as a high school is notable to its students and alumni, but who knows? Should we fold this into Natib Qadish? —  Rickyrab | Talk 03:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

text: It does seem that "Judeo-Paganism" is distinct from both Natib Qadish and Wicca. However, "Judeo-Paganism", if I am reading the intent of the original author correctly, is the Reconstructionst Pagan (Polytheistic Reconstructionism) religion based on pre-monotheistic Judaism. Ridan 02:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I tend to agree and, in fact, I'd go further. The paganism which is part of a Judeo-Pagan's religion need not be Wiccan at all. There may be many different kinds of Judeo-Paganism, some harkening back to Pagan paths originating in the Middle East, others a meld of current traditions (like Wicca or Neo-Druidism) with Judaism. Some may be practiced by people of Jewish descent who find an equal or greater affinity for a Pagan world-view or ritual or seasonal observance, others may believe that Judaism itself is more Pagan than the mainstream would have one believe, and ascribe to a different interpretation of it's principles. In any event, while "Jewitchery" may be synonymous with "Jewish Wicca, I don't believe they are the same as "Judeo-Paganism" - though they might be a subset of it.Rosencomet (talk) 16:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

message: The point of the template is that Judeo-Pagans use the original pre-monotheistic mythological deities listed in template. It is not inappropriate, and continued removal without discussion on the talk page is vandalism. Could some other editor please restore the template? IPSOS (talk) 19:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template 

message: I would refer the person who placed the "citation needed" tag to the article Who is a Jew. It is common knowledge, and part of Rabbinical Jewish law (halakha), the Code of Jewish Law (Shulchan Aruch), and the Talmud, that a Jew is either someone who's biological mother was Jewish or someone who goes through conversion. No matter how devoutly you may agree with the principles of Judaism or decide (for some reason, say, to satisfy your in-laws) to follow Jewish laws, unless one of these two conditions are met, you are not a Jew. On the other hand, a born or converted Jew may subsequently declare him/herself an atheist or a member of another religion, he/she may break Jewish law by worshiping idols or committing murder or in any other way, may disbelieve in the Biblical account of history or the existence of God, yet he/she remains a Jew - just one that (according to halakha) is not doing what he/she is "supposed" to be doing. Being a Jew is membership in a people, not a declaration of belief. Just like being an American, you may not agree with the constitution, you may be an anarchist or a communist or a monarchist, but a citizen is a citizen. If you break the law, you may be a citizen in prison, you may have some of your rights suspended, but you will be an American prisoner.Rosencomet (talk) 16:17, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, the article "Judaism as a Tribal Identity" in Green Egg Magazine was not written by "various authors". The issue had other articles about Jewish Paganism, but not on that subject. Anyone with a copy of that issue might review the others as a source of reference material. Rosencomet (talk) 02:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tribal Identity 

message: Time to establish the notability of this thing, I suppose.
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The relevant guideline is probably WP:ORG. The three zine articles listed at present are clearly not sufficient.
Based on the google searches linked above, notability is questionable, but not obviously lacking. The term generates a few thousand hits on the web, but is unknown to google scholar. Tagging with  for now. dab (𒁳) 13:48, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Notability

message: I propose, though I don't exactly know how to handle the change, that this article be reverted to it's original name, Judeo-Paganism, and that "Jewitchery" be a section within in, with a redirect page here. There are many Jewish pagans who do not consider themselves witches. There are Jews, for instance, who consider Judaism to have its roots in Palestinian or Canaanite paganism, and their path would have nothing to do with Wicca or witchcraft. Furthermore, Jewitchery defined as "Jewish Wicca" is even more a subset, since one can be a witch without ascribing to the Wiccan religious movement (such as a family-tradition witch). In fact, there is a difference between Judeo-Paganism and Jewish Neopaganism, as some Judeo-Pagans could be paleo-pagans or meso-pagans.
I also think Esimal's justification that Jewitchery is more common (or that Judeo-Paganism is less widespread) is both unsupported and irrelevant IMO; it's like saying an article on Judeo-Christianity should just be called Christianity, since Jews are the minority. I guess the same goes for the term African-American; just change it to American, since most Americans aren't of African descent.
Also, the line "from the terms Jew and witch, "shaman"/"sage" in its pure meaning" is poetic but merely someone's opinion. There need not be any relationship between either Jew or witch and sage or shaman. The word Jewitch would have to be changed back to Judeo-Pagan in the text of the article wherever appropriate as well.Rosencomet (talk) 18:43, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Judeo-Paganism Proposal

message: Funny I can't find anything about this in Hebrew on Google, nor is there an article about it on the Hebrew Wikipedia. What the devil is this? Siúnrá (talk) 21:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure why you would expect to -- Hebrew Wikipedia tends to be oriented towards what's of interest to people in Israel, and not a compendious database of everything done by small fringe offshoots of Judaism worldwide... AnonMoos (talk) 22:02, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hebrew? 

message: Judeo-pagans worship a family of gods and goddess with the shekinah kallah (The queen of the shabbat) and adoni (king of the universe) as mother and father and the mitzvah's as their children (Adam & Eve)- Early humans who lived in the garden of eden. man kicked the mother and father out of the garden as a resort Adoni stripped them of their immorality and man felt pain for the first time. -- 16:19, 28 December 2013‎ 75.83.130.224
: I would be careful about such flat statements. I know Judaeo-pagans whose belief system is nothing like this. They don't regard the Shekinah as "the mother" or the mitzvahs as "their children", or man to have kicked the god and goddess out of the garden. Frankly, I've never heard of this scenario. It can be a big mistake to assume that different religions are the same but with different names. It is often not the case at all. Rosencomet (talk) 19:37, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Theology