Talk:MDS International

message: Any sources? Sources for the importance of these companies? Sources for the claimed motivation of creating the companies? Weregerbil 11:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Which reference is that please? The section in question has no references at this time. Weregerbil 11:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Is there some reliable source that discusses those companies and why they are encyclopedically relevant? Weregerbil 11:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The "Paper companies" section

message: Is there some reliable source that documents the events in this section, and verifies that they are indeed results of the case? At this time, the section is completely unsourced. Weregerbil 11:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The "Results of Court Case" section

message: This article is a mess of unpublished synthesis of published material. Is it possible to find reliable sources that discuss the whole issue, instead of Wikipedia conducting slanted original research into the importance, reasons, and reprecussions of a court case? I think we need pretty impressive sources before dedicating three quarters of an article to a lawsuit.
Incidentally, someone removed   tags from the article. As of now, I'm not sure the article fully explains why this 6-person company making 10,000 EUR/year is encyclopedically notable in the first place. Weregerbil 11:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: This is not going into a very good direction

message: Sorry I missed that one in the company bar. Thanks.64.134.109.95 04:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Purports 

message: After a complaint received to WP:OTRS, I've removed the section on legal troubles since it provided no references.  The contempt section provided sources to primary documents, which are not acceptable sources.  Please see our policy on verifiability for more information.
Currently the article contains a great deal of information that is only referenced from material produced by the subject of the article.  More references from third party sources are needed and more material should be added to the article to balance the large section about lobbying. 
Please make sure that any further information added cites reliable sources and keeps the article inline with our policy on neutral point of view. Shell babelfish 08:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking at the history of the article, there has been an attack angle in this article, starting from the preferred version of the original creator of the article. Appears there is a legal dispute between this company and another, resulting in some mud slinging here...(With all due WP:AGF.) The lack of third party sources makes it hard to describe the legal case in balanced terms. Or even verify the encyclopedic importance of the legal case. There aren't even sources that describe how this 6-person 10,000-EUR-revenue company passes WP:CORP in the first place. As it is, it is  material. Weregerbil 10:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. There is no assertion of notability. Please let me know if there are objections to an A7 speedy. --Fang Aili talk 13:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is an ongoing deletion discussion, but as of yet, other than a brief spurt of media attention in 2001 there seems to be little that would qualify this company under WP:CORP.  I wouldn't object to a speedy.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shell Kinney (talk • contribs) 22:42, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: From my discussion page from you SHell
I would appreciate it if you could remove the personal attack from your user page. Per our policy, attacks of that nature are forbidden. Thanks. Shell babelfish 04:27, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Legal sections and other changes needed 

message: I thought the admins were supposed to be unbiased. It seems that my review of what has happened here is that jeancluduc started vandalizing pages, Doing multiple reverts, and making numerous legal threats. As I followed his "contributions" what I see are rants and personal attacks like the one above and the one that was on WizardOfWor's user page (since removed). I see almost constant censorship, warnings, and actions against, what at least from the outside, appears to be the less egregious side, althogh both sides seem to be pretty bad. 
Why is a Wikipedia admin picking sides? Why isn't the org doing more to over see this type of thing?74.225.165.44 12:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Campaigns against rouge admins are common, and as far as I can tell, pretty systematically ignored by everyone else, and thus mostly a waste of breath. Just FYI. Happy editing! Weregerbil 13:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is this? 

message: So we are reduced to a discussion from a pathological liar and a rogue Admin. If there are actually people who are reading this and contemplating a system purchase, place a note on my talk page and I will supply the number of "customers" of MDS International. After your dicsussion with the people who have had a "system" built by this company you canlet Wikipedia of the service they are providing the public hereWizardOfWor 20:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. Please understand that personal attacks are absolutely not allowed on Wikipedia. Your positive contributions are appreciated; comments such as "pathological liars" may get you blocked without further warning or discussion. Thank you. Weregerbil 22:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wacky comments 

message: Was the person who wrote the above drinking?? Does this mean anything? Is this just cryptic? 76.109.17.236 00:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this a Joke 

message: What does this have to do with MDS International. MDSI seems to be a comapny that has left a longline of fraud and theft behind it, Now one of the principals is trying to change the subject?
jeanclauduc seems to be posting old infomation about ISLAMIST going after someone who is promoting democracy in the middle east. Everything I read seems to say that the action refenced above is motivated by Islamic fundamentalism. 
The reader will have to notice that in the above case that jeancluduc LEFT OUT that the person supposedly guilty of fraud has been exonerated three times by Kuwaiti and International courts? see  http://www.allbusiness.com/mining/oil-gas-extraction-crude-petroleum-natural/788804-1.html
Why is an extremist posting attacks? Where are the admins???
When did Wikipedia become a posting site for Islamic Extremists?76.109.17.236 10:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islamists Extremists in Kuwait said Wizardofwor

message: Slowly one starts to understand all of the Vandalism and "LIES LIES." It seems there is something to hide here. 76.109.17.236 22:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your question is bordering on unacceptable for these discussions.  See WP:TALK. If you think there is a WP:COI issue here with certain editors, please discuss it on their individual talk pages, or consider reporting it on the Conflict of interest/Noticeboard if you believe the situation meets the noticeboard's guidelines. --Ronz 15:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

text: There's little that can be done about the lack of secondary sources other than to wait for them to be published.  So, is the current edit-warring just because of the legal proceedings?  Why not cite legal documents as primary sources?  Withoug secondary sources, it will have to be kept to a minimum to avoid any bias for either side. --Ronz 21:08, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Unsourced attacks will be removed. Thank you for your contributions. Weregerbil 07:18, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

text: No, I have not 'decided' anything. Please see WP:V. Unsourced attacks will be removed per policy. Thank you for observing Wikipedia policies in the future. Weregerbil 10:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not an admin, just an editor trying to stop this editwarring. --Ronz 15:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Software Cracking 

message: Sorry your discussion are between you and only with Mr Harold Hirpatrick the builder of this story the maker of the false Real Xingtech and the big Mac chief of the gang stoling softwares, products, patents licences and clients to the Cie MDSinternational if you like to discuss about the case agains the Product Manager of MDS America the best are to ask to the French lawyer or to the French court in Lyon. About the case in Detroit read with great care the case invoked are make only by MDSamerica alone killing itself by stopping the chance to purchase new products new concepts from MDSinternational the results are clear: to expect to make some businesss now MDSamerica can only work with MDSAmerica product manager theft and more theft. This are clear only by reading our WEB site and our dealers WEB Sites, Read also all on the WEB about the various stories about the Holder of MDSInternational embezzing and siphoning funds from the MDSI and make your own idea of the situation; Mr JCD ( JCD Hate ,me !) can still play this stupid game, I have a lot of evidences and stories and pictures for WiKi available after each new attack from this not a gentlemen Jeanclauduc 21:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Your Discusion about Real Software Cracking 

message: Thank you Weregerbil, in answer to the personal attacks of Mr Jean-Claude Ducasse alias jean-claude it is easy to see our WEB site www.mds.fr and to mailto us and also to download the official TM and patents of MDSi http://www.mds.fr/news/Press%0Release%20MDS%20April%202006.pdf JC Ducasse MDSI CTO. Of course we will only tell the truth to the customers. You can write to fabrice10@ mac .com to get the name of our customers and check for yourself. Don't check on this software piracy
JC Ducasse wrote the above but I do not see any patents on the MDS.fr web site. I see lots of claims but no patents. If fact, it is just as the article says, when you click on "Patents" on the MDS.FR web site, there is only a trademark listed. Doing a search on the USPTO shows only one trademark listed. Even the HyperGate so prominently displayed (I guess also illegally, is registered to another company. 
 
I,JC DUCASSE DO NOT WROTE ALL OF THIS CONTENTS, CONTENTS SUCH AS ( You can write to fabrice10@ mac .com to get the name of our customers and check for yourself. Don't check on this software piracy</blockquote> ) I write what I do not write and they do not write what I write. You also do not write this as I do. THEY WRITE IT ALL! comment was added by Jeanclauduc (talk • contribs) 16:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read WP:NOR and WP:NPOV.  Personal opinions do not belong in this encyclopedia.  Please find reliable sources for your claims. --Ronz 23:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide independent sources. --Ronz 01:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patents 

message: On MDSi www.mds.fr WEB site the patent US number are displayed, everybody can obtain the full text but to help you search the patents and invention made by Jean-Claude Ducasse in USA you can find two patents one are loan by MDSinternational ( the advertised number on the WEB site) on USPTO follow this link:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=ducasse+jean-Claude&FIELD1=IN&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=PG01
or search:
 20060052078 Device for amplifying the signal from a receive antenna 
Jeanclauduc 17:04, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patents Answer 

message: I've added a POV tag to the article because of editors' insistance on including original research and unreliable sources.  Please do not make this article a battleground for your personal disputes. --Ronz 02:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: Editing the comments of another editor to change their meaning is strictly forbidden by WP:TALK. I reverted the edit made this morning by , a Florida-based IP, who was altering the comments left here previously  by User:Jeanclauduc, reversing the meaning of some of his statements. If you have something to say, add your OWN comments.  EdJohnston 14:02, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Violation of [[WP:TALK]] by 76.109.17.236

message: 83.206.63.250 18:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Saved page for you 

message: User:Jeanclauduc offered this response when User:FayssalF asked him about the matter of the Xingtech Streamserver software. The way he phrased it makes it sound illegal:
nous n'avons fait que changer le nom pour le commercialiser sous notre nom. Comme nous sommes une société française, les américains ne viendrons pas nous chercher et nous poursuivre.
('All we did is change the name, to commercialize it under our name. As we are a French company, the Americans won't come here to prosecute us').
Let's hope that Jean-Claude is willing to clarify this a little further. EdJohnston 15:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xingtech software is legally distributed by MDSI? 

message: All in this pages of Talk are false the original TALK are still change and modified by WIKI admin working all for MDSAMERICA various account are made and my TALK or answers are modified in real time or in a short time after by Fabrice Ducasse  the Product manager of MDSAmerica and Harold Kirpatrick the CEO of MDS america all of my Talk and informations and right  adresses are modified, Franckly WIKIPEDIA are a very bad system if what I write now are modified and also all testimonies  are lies if anybody have a problem this are easy to ask to the court to make case against us we wait this with pleasure.
All of this pages are shooted by the Baillif to give to the French court in Lyon for the criminal case against Fabrice Ducasse the product manager of MDSAMERICA stealing MDSinternational Hypercable and also for Breach of trust for the profit of Shaick Ali Khalifa Al Sabah Holder of Al Fawares and of MDSAmerica.
Can you think mister's the false WIKI administrators if all said by this dishonest guys are right why the french court dismiss the Shaick ali 2 times and the Fabrice gang also 6 times for similar lies ! 83.206.63.250 17:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Conspiracy theories are usually plain nonsense, especially ones which say that all administrators are getting paid by some company. This talk page is not the place for testimony - it's for improving the article. Could I politely suggest, if you have no contributions to improve the article, then do not contribute to this talk page at all. Thanks. -- zzuuzz(talk) 20:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  All Talk are change by the Admin members of the gang and is full False Now  

message: Per a recent discussion at the conflict of interest noticeboard, I would like to nominate this article for deletion. The reason is that we at Wikipedia are merely providing a venue for two contending parties to battle it out (MDSA and MDSI). Several COI-affected editors have already made what I consider to be blockable threats and vandalism to Talk page discussions. They should go and find a courtroom somewhere to fight one another, and they should cease vexing us. In the spirit of even-handedness, I would like to nominate both MDS International and MDS America for deletion. I realize that the notability of these companies is not open-and-shut here, but the legal problems for Wikipedia, and the potential paperwork and phone calls in the WP:OFFICE, would make this an expedient move. Some of us have already discovered how hard it is to find any reliable secondary sources for either company, so it's not as though they are both extremely famous. It has become a big struggle to keep defamatory material off the Talk pages, let alone the articles. Due to the legal threats the issue has already been posted at WP:AN/I.
I'd be in favor of recreating both articles if the two parties ever settle their legal differences, and start inviting each other over for tea, and I would welcome re-creation of both articles at that time.  Please let me know your thoughts.  Technically I can't even place the AfD banner on this article yet, since it's still protected, so it's desirable to get a consensus. If there is a consensus, I could ask an administrator to start the AfD. A previous AfD, held on 27 March, failed to reach consensus with 3 votes to delete and 2 votes to keep.  That was before all the legal threats started. EdJohnston 23:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I support an AFD, and I suggest a discussion is not even nessisary to initiate it (though it is diplomatic!).  The AFD itsself is the discussion. Even with the article being protected I have no doubt an edit request would be granted to add an AFD tag since it is not touching the article content ittself. Russeasby 03:07, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Follow up note.  Actually, ideally the article could be changed to semi-protected, so durring the AFD editors have a chance to address address concerns brought up in the AFD.  I think its worthwhile appealing the protection for the sake of an RFD and making it very clear to the WP:COI editors that their edits will effect the outcome of the AFD. Russeasby 03:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I was actually proposing the AfD in hopes of closing down the Talk page debate, which was producing constant legal threats. (No article implies no Talk page, thus no continuation of the discussion). So hoping that the article would improve was not among my objectives. I would not be happy continuing the evolution of the article unless administrators were willing to block everyone who has actually made a legal threat or practiced disruptive editing, and I think that would be a very upsetting process, that would make matters worse at least in the short term. So that's why I'd like to AfD it and forget it. EdJohnston 04:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An AFD though is not just for getting rid of controversy or COI concerns.  If nominated for deletion it will be (or should at least) considered on basis of notability and verifiability.  How much conflict surrounds it should not be a primary concern reguarding the discussion to keep or delete. Personally I think its unnotable enough to warrent an AFD, reguardless of the conflict, but even if ultimately found notable enough, an AFD wont hurt and may serve to resolve the issue sooner.  But it can only be deleted based on deletion guidelines and policy, not because of other concerns.  But doesnt WP:LEGAL apply here? Legal threats are a serious violation warrenting blocks, probably far more enforceable then WP:COI so far as I have seen(and you know I understand how hard it is to do much about WP:COI!).  Reguardless, I see fair reasoning for an AFD reguardless of the conflict. Russeasby 04:32, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't object to blocks per WP:LEGAL, but someone would have to collect the evidence and turn in the report. At least one named user and one IP would deserve to be cited, if I recall correctly. (I'm all worn out just from promoting the AfD idea, so I leave any pursuit of blocks to someone else). EdJohnston 13:26, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we nominate this article for deletion? 

message: Ed, Please be fair about this. As someone familiar with the MDS America side, there has not been any legal threats or calls to Wikipedia or letters to Wikipedia from MDSA. If you had really read this you would see that this has already been settled and MDSI held in Contempt of US Federal Court for not honoring that agreement. Think about it. Of course it is possible that one's largest investor who happens to be the Ex-President of OPEC, and One's US Agent, One's Board of Directors, and all of one's sons would all just conspire against one individual but what are the chances? (all of the above from jeanclauduc himself)  
When MDS claimed that MDSI has been held in Contempt, there was a link to the courts web site and the Contempt order was uploaded to Wikipedia Commons, of all of the claims of FRENCH court action, did you see a shred of evidence? An attorney's name perhaps. The law firm?  WizardOfWor 23:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to have a single purpose account, and your edits have in general been quite unhelpful to building an encyclopaedia. .  Your comments here are completely irrelevant to the article or the encyclopaedia. If you want to continue your argument against this company I suggest you do it elsewhere. -- zzuuzz(talk) 23:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please be fair though 

message: Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MDS International (2nd nomination). I also put notices of the AfD at WP:AN/I and WP:COIN. You are welcome to join the deletion discussion and give your opinion. If you can log in before participating, your vote will carry more weight, under the policy of WP:AFD (search for 'unregistered' in that page). Your reasons and arguments will be carefully considered regardless of whether you have a logged-in account. If you are an employee of MDS America or MDS International, or have an affiliation with either one, mentioning that in your comment would help to reduce any concerns about conflict of interest. 
At this time there is no proposal to delete the article on MDS America, since it has not led to any legal threats. EdJohnston 01:43, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article has been nominated for deletion 

message: Really do you think that the CTO of MDSinternational are so stupid to said this ? This are again made by WiZardoFwor familiar with MDSAMERICA because CEO of this company and by Fabrice Ducasse the product manager of MDSAmerica This guys are sued in France in the Criminal court of Lyon for Theft and Breach of trust; I know this very Well because I am Share Holder of MDSinternational  for more of 35% of this company, and because Wikipedia attack and lies about MDSi new evidences  against the same guys are provided to the judge 89.224.157.48 16:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How is this discussion relevant to the article or appropriate per WP:TALK? --Ronz 00:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What said user '''FayssalF''' 

message: Again the CEO of MDS America change the talk inside this page!
I think fayssalf are not the author of this testimony in French but same do Kirpatrick before, this are again a false testimony lies and theft the specialities of this Gang.
I am not the CTO or CEO of MDSinternational but I hold some shares of this company and I know the full and right story:
XINGTECH.ORG Proxy site are a false site made by MDS America Kirkpatrick with of course the help of the Fabrice Ducasse product Manager of MDSAmerica.
We have tons of similar stories made by this Guys siting on a mountain of IRAKI Dollars.
Every day on each new change on MDSi Site or discussion we add informations about MDSAmerica Owned by  Al Fawares Kuwait company hold by Irakis receiving funds from the US Pentagon to rebuild Irak? or to send billions to MDS Operations and MDS America ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.224.178.100 (talk) 14:46, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: '''FayssalF''' paid by MDSAMERICA?

message: There is much anxiety amongst Wikipedia admins and editors here because of Legal threats being casually and continually thrown out on the talk page. This article will never improve if people with NPOV are afriad to edit the article rationally. There must be some reassurance that all of the SUE WIKIPEDIA and "evidences for French Criminal Court" and Judges are just bluster, that is my opinion. 02:33, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Relevance

message: I moved these from the article for discussion:
*Worldwave web site - dead website? Relevant?
*CED Magazine article on MVDDS - dead link - is this the correct link ?  I don't see how it's relevant to the article.
*BluWan web site - looks like WP:SPAM - how's it relevant?
*Xingtech web site - an attack site against MDS Int'l
--Ronz 00:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: I propose moving the following sections to the archives because they're off-topic and inappropriate per WP:TALK:
*What is this?
*Wacky comments
*Is this a Joke
*Islamists Extremists in Kuwait said Wizardofwor
*What is this story JC ?
*Software Cracking
*Your Discusion about Real Software Cracking
*Patents
*Patents Answer
*A Saved page for you
*All Talk are change by the Admin members of the gang and is full False Now
*What said user FayssalF
*FayssalF paid by MDSAMERICA?
*Relevance
--Ronz 14:58, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk page cleanup