Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Bethesda/Archive 2

message: Just FYI, but since I own and have played thru Shadowkey before, I took the liberty of fleshing out the wiki page there as well as adding connections to other Elder Scroll related topics that Shadowkey covers.  Please feel free to let me know what you think of it. Aspect Of Shadows 02:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gruntyking117 and myself have been making changes and updates to the page.  I'd like to request independent review for recommendation of page grade upgrade.  Aspect Of Shadows 06:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request For Independent Review On Shadowkey Page 

message: What do you think about List of The Elder Scrolls potion ingredients? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jackson070792 (talk • contribs) 22:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That article covers the subjects, but lists are rarely accepted on Wikipedia, except for when they are lists of subjects notable alone. I suggest to put it on http://uesp.net , as it will be deleted eventually. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 15:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Elder Scrolls potion ingredients 

message: Hey, I nominated The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind for GA.  It passed.  Yay!  --PresN 05:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoa... I was not expecting that at all. You go away for a few days and suddenly something like this crops up... Yay! Thanks, PresN, and good work. Geuiwogbil 05:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

text: To commemorate this momentous occasion, I have added an "Achievements" section to the project page, listing our two Good Articles. Geuiwogbil 06:15, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Good work! Smomo 12:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA 

message: I've also been wondering what everyone thinks of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, and what could be done to improve it. Here are some particular questions.
*Gameplay: How long should this section be, and what details should it focus on? I've made a subarticle, Gameplay of The Elder Scrolls series, and cut out some previous information that was called "too lengthy" on the article talk page. (Any contributions to the subarticle, by the way, comparing Morrowind's gameplay to Oblivion's in a non-trivial fashion, (or Arena's or Daggerfall's) would  be much appreciated.) I was wondering how much should be let back in, if any at all?
*Plot: Should this be called "Plot and Setting", or just "Plot"?
**Setting: Can someone else write this? I'm not sure how to write a section that is supposed to be both in-universe and out-universe at the same time. FF7 has a hefty hunk devoted to this type of material, written with the conceit that the material is real-world, but the thing feels contrary to WP:WAF.
**Story: How long should this be, and what should citations look like? 
***Length: The story sections on other media articles are inordinately long. I don't even know if I can write that much. Given that the bulk of the game deals with sidequests, should I write about those at all? On TIL's History of Tamriel, it considers some side quests notable enough to be mentioned in its few paragraphs on Oblivion: the Arena line of quests, the Mage's Guild line of quests, the Dark Brotherhood line of quests. Is the same true for Morrowind? I'd be much obliged if someone else wrote this section for me as well.
***Citations: The FF series quotes game dialogue, but I'm not sure how well that would fit in with Morrowind's semirandom dialogue spoken by multiple persons. Do we quote "Telvanni Faction Character in Ald'Ruhn", or the name of an arbitrary character him/herself? We have the rather helpful walkthroughs by TIL, which I've cited, but I'm not sure if I should be using them. Should I cite UESP? It's not an WP:RS, and it can't be, right? It's what I did on Oblivion, being all too lazy to fish up quotes for anything. It's implied that all material is directly from the media: that's why we don't cite films or novels in their respective articles. But having the UESP cites makes the whole thing rather more useful. I'm confused.
**Characters: Anyone know what, if anything, should go here, in this place where a section is curiously absent? The link is to "Characters of Morrowind", but the section deals entirely with storyline. Who's notable? Uriel, who lives far-off and doesn't much deal with us? Dagoth Ur, who makes us dream surreal dreams and who we know mainly from centuries-old tales? Caius Cosades, who gives us quests and then hurries off to do something on the mainland? The characters are developed in a quite different way from the way they are in most team-based, plot-driven RPGs. How can this proposed section reflect that? Should this section be here at all?
*Reception: What does everyone feel are the most important subjects mentioned by the reviewers, or notable subjects only mentioned by few reviewers? What awards are notable? What portion of the material should be quotes?
**Focus: In the Gameplay material I chucked out of the article, I devoted a comment or two to how the reviewers felt about every little thing, and I'll probably continue to do so on the subarticle, but the Gameplay sections of other articles placed all reviewer comments in the reception section. I'd be uncomfortable writing the section without creating a mirror image of the article: How the reviewers felt about the Gameplay; How the reviewers felt about the Combat; How the reviewers felt about the Setting; etc. To put it briefly, I lack perspective. There's probably nothing anyone else can do about that, however. Maybe I should just regurgitate everything they say, make a kind of "Concordance" for the reviews of the game, and someone with a clearer head can subarticle out the mass and fillet out the most informative nuggets.
**Awards: Review awards aren't notable, are they? They just indicate the game scored a such-and-such, right? Any notable awards the article is missing?
**Quotes: Balance is hard to reach. Too many quotes makes it feel like a "Concordance", too few quotes makes it seem weaselish. "May reviewers felt..." Does anyone like the balance as it stands?
*Modification: Is this OR? Can anyone cite this? Are there guides to the mod community as a whole? I have some dev interviews talking about the TESCS in its development and origins; does anyone have any talking about "modification" or "modifications"? The Game Press often gurgles and gushes whenever a game is seen as "highly moddable", but it barely speaks a useful word on the subject afterwards. I've seen some good articles listing off top 10 mods and such for Oblivion. Does anyone remember any for Morrowind?
*Expansions: How much to say, and how much to leave on their respective articles?
*Overall: I'm unsure about my prose in places. Any comments there?
Sorry to make you read all that. Looking over that, I can't tell whether I've said enough or if anything I said made any sense. I'm exhausted. Any comments are welcome. Thanks all. Geuiwogbil 04:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What? Geuiwogbil 22:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind 

message: Anyone know how to get one of those FA-class, GA-class, A-class, B-class, etc., infobox jobbies on the front page? I checked around on other Wikprojects's, but they were a great mass of categories within categories upon categories in project space out of project space and what have you. I couldn't make sense of one lick of it. I think it'd look cool having one up on the front page. If anyone thinks differently, I'm still fine without it. Geuiwogbil 04:51, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean having a full list? Not exactly sure of the implementation now - which Wikiprojects do you mean? CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 05:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, a full list, like Wikiproject India, or Wikiproject Anime. Like this: Geuiwogbil 05:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we don't need such statistics. After all, they have thousands of articles, we have less. The stats are bot-generated. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 05:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're probably right.Geuiwogbil 05:33, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assessment Paraphernalia 

message: I refer to the following: 
I feel that most of these little articles, with the possible exception of the Imperial City, are good candidates for a general merge into a Locations in Cyrodiil article. If any gets large enough, it can be broken off into its subarticle once more. Comments welcome. Geuiwogbil 04:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they can all be merged into such an article, even IC. --PresN 20:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. What can I do about the infobox, made useless from the merge? Geuiwogbil 20:48, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nominate it for TfD, I suppose. -> Wikipedia:Templates for deletion --PresN 21:06, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Once it's orphaned, as we all agree with merge, just speedy will do. I'll tag it now. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 22:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cyrodiil Cities 

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards 

message: Was there really a need to delete them? They did add information about the Daedra Lords, such as what they command over so shouldn't they be put back? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheUltimate3 (talk • contribs) 00:44, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, as it's incredibly trivial, non-notable information.  Fortunately, there's the UESP wiki- look it up on google.  --PresN 06:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daedra Spheres, Aliases, ect 

message: Does anyone feel like going through the Daedric princes article and sorting out what information there is actually from the games, and what is speculation/original research?  I would, but I might accidently remove something that was stated in Arena or Daggerfall... I'm only passingly familiar with the first two TES games. VoidTalker 02:57, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will be glad to help, but because my DP knowledge is limited to that of only one game (Morrowind), I can't make somewhat major changes.  ♣ Klptyzm  Chat wit' me  §  Contributions ♣ 16:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daedric Princes 

message: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion was made a Good Article today, bringing us up to 3!  It is still in Peer Review, and needs some work based on the suggestions there, so feel free to come by and help out.  --PresN 17:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Woo! Good articles are good! --Niroht | Smoke signals 19:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

text: w00t! Good work, PresN! Geuiwogbil 22:17, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could someone email an easier "how to" for peer reviews, I had to request that someone (thanks PresN) request the peer reviw! Stabby Joe 22:57, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Our third GA! 

message: With the recent blanked page of Oblivion (of which the BOT appeared to blame me for of which I did NOT do) and one suggested a negativly bias link be added, just to quickly point out that although I don't think the page should be overlly protected, it should be closely watched since there will always be those who want to vent their dislike on these wiki pages, which is not good since we just achived a good status. Stabby Joe 22:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oblivion page vandalism 

message: * Version prior to my editing of the article. (21:07, 20 September 2006)
* Changes I made to edit out the WP:NOT game-guidery, and replace it with some more palatable and citeable gameplay info. (20-25 September 2006)
* Version passed for GA. (Thanks, PresN and Chuchunezumi!) (18:21, 16 December 2006)
* Changes I made to satisfy  this guy's complaints about "length" and "wordiness". Chunked out information to Gameplay of The Elder Scrolls article. (08:21-08:23, 23 December 2006)
* Version sent to Peer Review. (19:06, 21 January 2007)
* Version prior to me writing this FA push bit. (05:57, 13 May 2007)
:Sorry for disappearing for that long; I was short on time and had other priorities leaving no other choice than to temporary suspend myself from WP; TBH, I won't return fully yet, but I'll be here for the time being.
:Reading the article, it seems to be up to the strictest standards. The only problem could be lack of material and generally a bit overcondensed writing. Nonetheless, I think it's close to be ready for FAC. Out of small things, I'd probably rather put plot and setting as separate section, considering setting's relative independence of the plot. Still, it reads just like a FA, maybe a short one, but that can be fixed easily - so I wish it succeeds. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 02:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the kind words, CP\M. The lack of material is a bit frustrating sometimes, so I've tried to make do by taking many small things from many different places, searching for offhand references in every video-game-related site I could think of. Your comments about the layout make sense. I'll put it below the plot in a new section. Best of luck in your other priorities! Geuiwogbil 02:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article History 

message: Hello, dear members of the Elder Scrolls WikiProject! I've been puttering around with a little article in my sandbox called the Development history of The Elder Scrolls series. I've just recently decided to move it into the mainspace. Anyone with interest may criticize, add to, trim down, or, if the mood strikes, utterly annihilate, the aforementioned page. Thanks for taking the time to read this note! Geuiwogbil 05:35, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Development history of The Elder Scrolls series 

message: Hi, everybody.  I'm a big fan of TES (especially Morrowind and Oblivion) but new to Wikipedia.  I'd like to contribute but don't know where to start.  Is there anything that needs doing?
:Lots of things to be done all over the place, Ray! There's an ongoing effort to get The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion to FA. To help out with that, it'd probably be wise to first look at the Featured Article criteria and other Featured Articles on video games, and then to see where the article's lacking.  There's another effort, led by Klptyzm, to cut down on "cruft" in lore (fiction)-centered articles. To help out with that, you should first check out our guidelines for fictional notability and our Manual of Style entry for writing about fiction, and then trim the articles accordingly. Then there are the earlier entries in the series, like Arena and Daggerfall, which need a good deal of content. (If you could scrounge up PC video gaming magazines from the early to mid 90s, that would be sweet.) I'm working on summaries of the series' development and gameplay. Really, though, I'm sure that anywhere you'd be willing to lend a helping hand, you'd be well-appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to offer your services, and I hope you find something you like on Wikipedia. ^_^ Geuiwogbil 05:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I must apologize.  I tweaked the Ghostfence article before reading the writing about fiction guide.  I'm afraid I may have just added more fan cruft to the article. Ray 06:59, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's OK. There's always the UESP, which would gladly accept the content. Geuiwogbil 02:29, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hi