Talk:Christian metal

message: Black Sabbath ring any bells? They were the first to put pro Christian beliefs into metal. They sang anti satanic songs and had Christian crosses all over the stage.Rockgenre (talk)Rockgenre 19:37, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? COuld you cite some examples? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:06, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbw2cZZR-4k&feature=related Rockgenre (talk)Rockgenre 02:26, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Quoting songs is not a ground for inclusion, as they could be interpeted in any possible way. Erzsébet Báthory(talk|contr.) 18:43, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In Metal: a headbanger's journey it was confirmed that Sabbath were Christians. They even performed with Christian crosses on stage. They were the first in this genre.Rockgenre (talk)Rockgenre 19:03, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: With that logic, Slayer would be a Christian band as well. They obviously aren't. It is more than their personal beliefs, and the occasional reference to "God" that makes a Christian metal band. Erzsébet Báthory(talk|contr.) 19:09, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The lyrics for Sabbath's "After Forever" are not at all ambiguous: "They should realize before the criticize that God is the only way to love."     — Preceding unsigned comment added by CLSwiki (talk • contribs) 19:13, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

text: "the occasional reference to "God"". Hello, "After Forever" has that.--Rockgenre 19:12, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sabbath even did a Church benefit concert, I'm not kidding here. They even confirmed that their songs were anti-santanic(I forget where, but I will find the source in a day or two).--Rockgenre 20:56, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Wow! Do you really think that this discussion is still relevant one and a half years later? (No offense, I'm just joking, but really?)--3family6 (talk) 21:01, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Sorry to disagree with you, but it's not just about Black Sabbath's lyrics, it was their image. They made themselves out to be anti-Christian. That may not have been their choice. It may have been the choice of their label, or their manager, but it was their image. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:11, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for your quick response, and please analyze the phrase: "Among the early bands to add negative connotations to the term was Black Sabbath, combining heavy metal music with "occult symbols and odes to the Devil"". According to our gentle conversation, could be changed to something like that: "Is of generally belief that, among the early bands to adding negative connotations to the term was Black Sabbath, combining heavy metal music with an image of anti-Christian, even if their early lyrics and cross imaginery do not plenty support this image". Please give them a second chance, have mercy. Thank you again. Aalberdi (talk) 02:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone forgot the obvious. 

message: Someone please also add Fratello Metallo to this page... 
I don't know where to categorise the music...
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.101.119.75 (talk) 11:06, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps Fratello Metallo could be mentioned in an article or section titled "Christianity and heavy metal music" (if it would exist, that is), or this article section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_effects_of_rock_music#Christianity ? --Azure Shrieker (talk) 23:18, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fratello Metallo 

message: Adding a small Christian Metal Radio section to article under the supervision of Walter Görlitz.  Not just focussing on The Full Armor of God Broadcast but several key Christian Metal Broadcasters throughout the years. TY! Armorbearer777 (talk) 09:34, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian Metal Radio needs "Santuary" on [[Christian Metal]] 

message: It appears someone has done academic research on Christian metal: link. Amazingly well-written I must say. It clears several misunderstandings, contains many sources and sharp arguments that could be cited in the wikiarticle, perhaps under a new section "Christian metal subculture" "Sosiology of Christian metal" "Evangelistic goals" etc. I'm not sure where to start. Opinions?--Azure Shrieker (talk) 00:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As a source, this is good. However, it should not be heavily relied upon, particularly if it contradicts other sources on the broader Christian music industry. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:59, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. It's tempting though since this type of source material is difficult to come by. Perhaps his main thesis "In relaton to current debates on religious scange and transformation in the West, it is argued that the Christian metal music scene provides its core members with important resources for the shaping of an alternative and complementary form of religious expression and practice and an alternative Christian identity." could be mentioned? Also, the person recently published a doctorate thesis based on the Finnish Christian metal subculture, and has an article on the Internet's role on the transnational Christian metal scene. As far as I know, there are people working on similar studies in the US at the moment. Would it be best to wait until there's more such material?--Azure Shrieker (talk) 12:47, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not having read the material, I can't really comment. My one concern is that it's not a single, fringe opinion. Feel free to read the material and contribute anything you deem fitting. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Now there's a new section on this. Let me know what you think.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 23:18, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Academic research on Christian metal 

message: Starting with WP:TEA, my treat.
I was asked via e-mail to put some eyes on the subject at hand by Franamax as a third, outside opinion. For what it's worth, I've written a featured article on my band, so I know the ropes and I hope I can help here. I am also a fan of Whitecross.
Let's go ahead and start with a few basics:
#WP:AGF - Assume the other person has the best intentions at heart. They are trying to do there best and, whether or not they are doing the "right thing" under Wikipedia policies and guidelines, we should respect them as individuals.
#WP:BEBOLD and WP:OWN - In general, no one owns articles or controls their content. By the same token, you don't need to be an expert to contribute to Wikipedia and you don't need to get approval to initially add or delete anything from Wikipedia. This is not to say you shouldn't consider WP:CONSENSUS and the talk pages first.
#WP:3RR - There is no need to revert more than three times for ANY reason. Many people go by WP:1RR. I'm personally a fan of WP:BRD.
#WP:RS - Reliable sources are essential. Without them, content can, and should, be removed on sight unless a reliable, third party source can be found. That a station claims anything is only applicable to that station and establishes nothing in particular other than the claim.
#WP:SOAPBOX - Advocacy has no place on WP. You are certainly welcome to represent your views, but articles must be as WP:neutral as possible. There are ways to phrase things in such a manner that are factual rather than 
It is good to see everyone relatively getting along. Let's see what common ground we can find together and see what we can do to fix this problem. I'm a big fan of speaking my mind, so I'll call it like I see it:
*Armorbearer777 - I know you are trying to do the "right thing". However, you have no right to demand that another user "run any edits through established Christian Metal editors...BEFORE [they] add anything to the article." If your intent was to offer some sort of help (i.e. "to make this whole editing process run smoother, you might want to see what others say before you add it"), it didn't come across that way. I think your motives are pure here and you just want to see an accurate article on the subject. Just don't let your zeal turn into zealotry. I commend you for being up-front about your associations. You may want to read WP:SOAP
*Ihopeican143 - You probably feel like you just stepped in a hornet's nest here. I can empathize with that and have done it myself. In general, though, you did nothing wrong other than WP:3RR. The good thing about that policy is that you need to be warned about it before you can be held accountable. Everyone knows it and there shouldn't be any more edit warring.
*Everyone else - Seems to be trying to hold down the fort and not have the situation explode. Good on all of you.
So...now what?
Let's look at the section in question:
:Since Christian Metal is very much a counterculture of the Christian music scene, it has never had any major corporate radio outlets, as opposed to the more accepted GMA associated Christian music formats. Christian Metal Radio can be hard to reference and even more difficult to establish notability for. Nevertheless, Christian Metal has helped Christian Metal remain culturally significant, primarily enduring the test of time through word of mouth and through the help of pioneering Christian Rock & Metal broadcasters. In spite of the lack of commercial radio support, Christian Metal broadcasters have managed to hit the airwaves on public radio, college radio, internet radio and in recent years through podcasting via the internet. As the new age of digital technology becomes more accessible to the general public, the number of Christian Metal broadcasters is steadily increasing.
#I see zero sources. As such, it could easily be just removed, however, we need to see what can be salvaged/improved.
#It is significantly overlinked. Who doesn't know what the internet is? Who doesn't know what commercial radio is? Why are we linking to the article?
#I see LOTS of weasel words and claims that cannot be verified or are dubious.
#Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.
I would recommend the following rewrite and inclusion elsewhere in the article, but sourcing is a MUST.
:As Christian Metal is a counterculture of the Christian music scene, few major corporate radio outlets have promoted such labels in the industry. Despite the lack of support in the commercial radio realm, the genre has enjoyed limited success in other media forms, to include public radio stations, college radio stations, internet radio stations, podcasts, and other internet alternatives.
In short, this section sounds too promotional as it is now and I think the entire article goes into WAY too much detail. I think there is a plethora of sources and material to work with and it has significant potential as an article. I think the editors involved are goldmines of information and can greatly benefit this article and Wikipedia as a whole. Just keep cool, avoid insults, and this will work out for the best. — BQZip01 — talk 01:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I worked very hard at this little section. I thought that I sourced it well for as out of the mainstream as Christian Matal Radio is. It is not a subject that gets allot of "print" type coverage published about it, that is why I sourced the references with "Electronic Media" according to WP:SELFPUB & WP:SOURCES. Ihopeican143 or FishermanD is obviously the host of pulse radio who seeks to self pormote. He vandalized the segment, than came back under a new IP and is obviously canvassing to rally support. He seems to have a rivalry with the other notable radio shows. This is out of hand, so since I wrote the original segment, I am taking the liberty of removing what remains. Let pulse radio write it. I need to walk away from this for a good long while. That is what I hate about WIKIPEDIA! You work hard to write something and along comes some self promoting newbie to muck it all up out of nowhere.. Sorry for the sour attidtude, but I am fed up. If anyone needs my help with another Christian Metal Radio segment, let me know.Armorbearer777 (talk) 07:32, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, I am not an employee or intern for Metal Pulse Radio. Nor am I the owner or anything of the sorts. I know you do not believe me but I'm not here to promote any particular station. Nevertheless, the Admins have already checked the previous contribs and found the whole thing to be lacking and a bit self promoting. I'm inclined to agree with that conclusion and I think the current direction that this is going with an informed but general statement of Christian Metal Radio is a good idea. It does play a key role in Christian Metal and thus it should be noted. Having 'something' in this article about Christian Metal Radio and it's contribution to the music scene is what's ultimately important. Right now we need to get a concensus on the paragraph and references to support it. I'm certain your background would be very useful in getting these needed references. Like I said, the admins have made it very clear that all input is welcomed and I think we're closer to a good final product than you might think. Ihopeican143 (talk) 08:20, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

text: The section being contested has absolutely nothing to do with Ihopeican143, there was no canvassing this article has been on my watchlist for years. I saw an edit looked at the content and saw obvious coatracking, at the time I knew nothing of the history, knew none of the editors.  I later discovered the AFD's where it was decided to coatrack this into this article.  I have stated that I have no problem with the paragraph as long as it is properly sourced. You keep saying the statements are sourced yet in this entire conversation and through two previous AFD's you have yet to produce a single source.  Stop fighting, stop throwing around accusations, and provide us with sources.  If there are no sources admit that there are no sources and move on to something else. Ridernyc (talk) 09:10, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's all cool down for a bit

message: Perhaps the Metal Mass should be discussed in this article. Anyone like to add it in?--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 21:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead. It seems appropriate. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm working on a section titled "Evangelistic goals, sosiology and subculture" where I think it fits fine. I try to add it soon.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 15:05, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 21:05, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, now it's mentioned.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 23:18, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Metal Mass

message: Would anyone object to removing Mono Vs Stereo from the Record Labels section? It used to have some Metal bands, but all of those bands have left the label, and the only artist signed to the label now is Relient K. It just doesn't seem to fit anymore.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Spencerz (talk; contributions) 01:38, 10 March, 2010 (UTC)
:In my opinion, the whole list of record labels is redundant, some of them could be mentioned in the prose. Same with the Christian metal radio section. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 15:05, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to remove the label. Removing the section is up for another discussion. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:24, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mono Vs Stereo 

message: Being entirely new to Wikipedia etiquette, I was not aware of this discussion page and the need to float requests to the main page editors prior to making a change until I happened to click the discussion tab...so, I'm going to ask for permission after the fact.  The information on the band Theocracy is woefully out of date (seven years, to be exact), so I included a sentence indicating that Theocracy has expanded to a full band and released a new album (most of the other bands in the power metal section have extensive discography listings). Premsta (talk) 05:59, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good news! Up-to-date information is always useful! You don't have to float anything past editors prior to making a change. However, if a situation arises where you are about to add controversial information, or someone keeps deleting your information and you need some space to discuss your position, an article's talk page is the place to go. Thanks again for making Wikipedia a better place. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:29, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion of updated Theocracy information 

message: Christian metal is not a genre! It's just different other kinds of metal with a christian message!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.206.150.123 (talk) 11:43, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded. MisplacedFate1313 (talk) 06:56, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Will need wider discussion within the relevant WikiProject. Link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Christian_music/Structure#More_about_genres 143.92.1.33 (talk) 01:43, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Won't need any discussion. It is a genre as is evidenced by the lack of discussion in this thread and the continued changes in the article over the same time. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:20, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is not a genre 

message: The section does appear to be WP:OR, but the question is, should it be removed entirely, created based on some criteria, expanded using some criteria and moved into a separate section, or something other? I think commenting it out should be avoided without discussion. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion some of the list, with sources, could be edited to prose, and then it could be merged with the alternative metal section, which now focuses too much on industrial metal anyway.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 22:07, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Agree this section needs some editing. I've shortened the title of the section to "Influential Albums", the Christian Metal part should be implied from the article, and the "timeline" or "of this period" parts aren't really necessary. The list should be converted to prose if possible. I've also edited some of the content for grammar. -- GateKeeper (talk) @  06:27, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

text: After more review, I've decided to remove it (see section below). Its the only section of the article which does not conform to GA status. It needs to be editing before being included.  -- GateKeeper (talk) @  06:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Again, why start at 1994? We have 1971's Gospel Hard Rock by Agape. Then in 1978 the first metal on a major label Awaiting Yuor Reply from Resurrection Band. Their next two albums were also influential as was 1984's D.M.Z. That was the year Stryper released The Yellow and Black Attack and their next two albums were certainly top-sellers. Darrell Mansfield released Revelation in 1985 that had several Christian rock chart-topping songs despite being a metal album. We have Whitecross releasing several albums in the late 80s and early 90s. Jerusalem (Swedish band), more hard rock than metal though. Bloodgood had some milestone releases. All of these before the artificial 1994 P.O.D. album. If we're creating a prose section, all of these bands must be mentioned. Shout and Ken Tamplin's brand of hair metal might also deserve a nod as would Petra who, although being a rock band, certainly influenced a lot of harder bands who followed, at least according to interviews I've heard on the Full Armor of God pordcast. The real question is what criteria marks any of these albums as influential? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:57, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: A Time-line of the Most Influential Christian Metal Albums of This Period

message: It was infrequently called "white metal" but that term was used. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to turn up a lot in the literature.--SabreBD (talk) 19:15, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sure. Who wants to keep writing "Christian metal". But in common usage, it was just an alternate name. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:33, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry Walter, I think I've lost the thread of this, what exactly are you arguing for inclusion as sometimes used alternative? Because I have no problem with that as it seems to be what the sources suggest.--SabreBD (talk) 19:43, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

text:  I have no problems with the inclusion of the term. The problem is the article indicated that it was called white metal. The phrasing was such that it made it seem as though it was known exclusively as white metal, which is not the case. Christian metal would be the primary term. White metal would be a secondary term. Unblack metal came even later—in the 90s I believe. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:41, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: OK I understand where you are coming from. We are in total agreement. It is normal to note major alternatives in the lede, but I see no evidence of migration from one term to another.--SabreBD (talk) 06:35, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: White Metal

message: I can't believed he's not even mentioned on the article! He is one of the most prominent examples of the topic. Became a Christian and left Korn. Now he plays Christian metal. Should definitely be added there.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.53.197.135 (talk) 05:06, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think he's one of the most prominent examples of the topic. He has released one album since his conversion and is about to release a second. The album did not sell well. However, he should be mentioned. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:36, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Welch is back with Korn. Korn is not a Christian band. AngelsExist88 (talk) 15:43, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  But his side project still is definitely Christian metal. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:42, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Brian "Head" Welch, Ex-Guitarist of Korn!!??

message: After reading this Telegraph.co.uk article (link) I thought it would be interesting to write a short section titled "Christianity and metal music" for this article. That is, a bit more comprehensive background information on the relationship between metal and Christianity, why metal often attacks Christianity and other way around. Something that is covered in this blog without the POV (link) "Old Testament bible stories inspire hundreds of metal songs." The cleric in that first article states that  “Much of metal’s fascination with Satan or evil is play-acting, driven by a desire to shock. Metal invites Christianity to be less afraid of wildness and the ridiculous.” What do you think? Is this stuff actually already apparent in the article?--Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:28, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christianity and metal music 

message: I'm removing air-1 from the radio section as they do not have any  programing set apart for christian metal as stated in the article. http://www.air1.com/Connect/Help.aspx
Can'thinkofscreename (talk) 21:00, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  air-1 

message: Nice work, Azure Shrieker. Your removing the large amount coverage on Trouble (based off a reference!) in the article seems to have brought the size down considerably. While the article might still be too long, that certainly helped.--3family6 (talk) 02:01, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, ideally the article lentgh should not be much over 30 kb and most certainly not 100kb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Length). Although this is not a very technical subject which allows longer articles. Check the aforementioned thesis' pages 126-127 to understand why I removed the band.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 16:54, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know how one would go about this, but it might be interesting to add something about the discussion of this Wikipedia article itself. That thesis is a goldmine for info, as soon as this college semester is over I might help you sift through it. (Its reference of several Christian metal websites might help establish them as reliable sources as well).--3family6 (talk) 17:06, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reduced article size 

message: Christian metalcore is the greatest movement of Christian metal, should have a section about this. MetalBrasil (talk) 01:15, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about greatest, but there are a few bands. Care to write something about it? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:28, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's the greatest in terms of sales and popularity for Christian metal since Stryper in the 80s, but there are other measures of greatness other than sales figures. I definitely think that the mention of metalcore in this article should definitely be expanded, and maybe even have an article itself. The big thing though is that we need sources, but there must be some that discuss the emergence of Christian metalcore. If we can find some, then we can go somewhere.--3family6 (talk) 14:40, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian metalcore? 

message: Okay, an editor has proposed merging unblack metal with this article, but they have not provided any rationale for this merger. I personally strongly oppose this merger, as the unblack metal article is very well sourced, and merging it with this article would close to double the size of this article.--3family6 (talk) 00:32, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: First, there are more than just two notable "un"black metal bands (eg., Extol, Frosthardr, Vaakevandring, Admonish, etc.). But what is more important is the notability of unblack metal itself. That is a legitimate concern, so I did some digging on the article, and I found that in the timeline, there actually are hardly any references that discuss unblack metal itself. But in the "controversies" section, everything is very well sourced, and many of the references discuss black metal itself, not just the bands. In its current state, the timeline of the article could be shrunk, but the subject as a whole is very notable, and definitely is more than just foot-note worthy. There still is too much notable content to really merge the articles without significantly adding to the size of the Christian metal article, and that article is already a too long. I will try to improve the notability of the timeline of unblack metal though.--3family6 (talk) 12:38, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, thank you for being sensible about this.  I'm still not convinced Unblack metal is significant enough to need its own article.  At the moment it looks like an attempt to present the Christian version as being the equal and opposite to non-Christian black metal, when really it isn't.  I admit I can't say how significant it is to the Christian metal but to black metal and extreme metal as a whole it is very insignificant.  A count of the relative number of listeners (on last.fm, for example) of Christian black metal bands and non-Christian black metal would demonstrate this.  I wish I was able to count the number of purely DSBM projects (I'm sure they would number in the thousands) compared to Christian BM bands. Cdh1984 (talk) 16:30, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This has come up before, and the article was cut down in size. There definitely is enough content to warrant its own article, but unless some more sources can be found, I think that it could potentially be cut further. I will say that a similar size to the black metal article is not a reason for cutting it down, but notability is.--3family6 (talk) 18:14, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Horde wasn't a parody, and there are more than two notable bands. Your ignorance is really showing.Impendingdoom240 (talk) 01:58, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of unblack metal 

message: The history section has no mention about the post-2006 or post-financial crisis scene.  What do you think about adding that, for a while, Steve Rowe of Mortification has stated that Christian metal records labels are closing down, the scene is getting even smaller ("There is not even a “Christian” Metal Scene here (Australia) anymore"), many musicians are falling away from faith, the record sales are scarse because of illegal downloading, and Christianity is not very popular these days (secular and Christian bands seldom play together anymore).  Nordic festival is no more. Signs of certain inactivity? (excluding the 'core bands and some major names).--Azure Shrieker (talk) 18:55, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is some type of reliable coverage, then go ahead.--¿3family6 contribs 02:17, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I know this is way later than this original discussion, but: The Solid State roster seems to be going strong. I wouldn't exclude the 'core bands, they seem to be the new wave. But even excluding them, I think may be happening is that the scene is merging with the mainstream.--¿3family6 contribs 11:28, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current state? 

message: The article currently has a very large amount of sound clips, which would probably contravene Wikipedia:Non-free content and create a problem "sandwiching" text between those and the picture (see WP:IMAGE). Something has to give.--SabreBD (talk) 11:15, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of those sound clips should go. Granted, the heavy metal article has 8, but it has a lot more content. Interestingly, the rock music article has none.--¿3family6 contribs 11:31, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Too many boxes

message: Controversy sections aren't highly regarded within the scope of Wikipedia, so I've taken the charge to slim it down a bit, without deleting information and keeping it on track. The controversies will stay, but I'm slimming it down to the bare essentials, as to not inflate the section. I am, however, deleting Kerry King's statement. I find that it's simply not having to do with actual controversy but his general distaste for the Christian metal scene. 98.198.85.83 (talk) 01:15, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slimming the Controversy section. 

message: Christian Metal is absolutely NOT a musical subgenre. Genres are not based on lyrical themes. If this exists as a wikipedia page then we might as well have 'Islamic Metal', 'Jewish Metal', 'Hindu Metal' 'Buddhist Metal' and even 'Atheist Metal'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.186.150 (talk • contribs) 08:09, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your opinion. There are radio formats for this non-genre. There are awards for this non-format. There are magazines, zines and online sites that publish exclusively for this genre. Major music publications consider it to be a genre. They do not have one for the additional categories or articles you have suggested. I think we'll trust them over your opinion. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:24, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just added archive links to  on Christian metal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20150706162056/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqMs6eQ33Z4&mode=related&search= to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqMs6eQ33Z4&mode=related&search=
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Christian metal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070805040049/http://www.kapelovitz.com:80/christianmetal.htm to http://www.kapelovitz.com/christianmetal.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071224143205/http://www.buzzgrinder.com:80/2006/revolver-on-christian-metal/ to http://www.buzzgrinder.com/2006/revolver-on-christian-metal/
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.archaic-magazine.com/showband.php?bid=3742
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.revelationz.net/index.asp?ID=1360
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.almightymetalradio.com/
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:42, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christian_metal&curid=211913&diff=751360162&oldid=751279192 Is TeamRock or MetalHammer a recognized source for what constitutes Christian metal? I'm not sure who William Boyd is, but the site does not list its editorial policy nor its staff so I would argue that isn't a RS. One of your favourite sources, HM, put out a list in 2010 (https://web.archive.org/web/20120212190202/http://www.hmmagazine.com/2010/07/top-100-christian-rock-albums-of-all-time) All but two of your albums appear there. The bands appear there, but that list thinks that there are better albums. But, we don't really need to add lists here as was so eloquently stated. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:25, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Metal Hammer is one of the classic heavy metal magazines - it absolutely is reliable. I don't think we need a table of "essential albums," though.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 19:47, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Essential metal albums? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Christian metal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.kapelovitz.com/christianmetal.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080103103023/http://heavymetalmusic.biz/2007/09/13/as-i-lay-dying-album-chart-international/ to http://heavymetalmusic.biz/2007/09/13/as-i-lay-dying-album-chart-international/
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.buzzgrinder.com/2006/revolver-on-christian-metal/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Christian metal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924035437/http://www.inter-disciplinary.net/ci/mmp/mmp1/moberg.pdf to http://www.inter-disciplinary.net/ci/mmp/mmp1/moberg.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110611192911/http://users.swing.be/vx7jdp/christian_news.htm to http://users.swing.be/vx7jdp/christian_news.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040118133721/http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=8085 to http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=8085
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080103225250/http://www.indievisionmusic.com/wordpress/2006/12/28/christian-metal-receives-recognition/ to http://www.indievisionmusic.com/wordpress/2006/12/28/christian-metal-receives-recognition/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120204055426/http://www.hmmagazine.com/exclusive/circle_of_dust_on_leaving_rex_records200306/index.php?page=all to http://www.hmmagazine.com/exclusive/circle_of_dust_on_leaving_rex_records200306/index.php?page=all
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071021231615/http://hmmagazine.com/exclusive/rackets_and_drapes_candyland200306/index.php?page=1 to http://www.hmmagazine.com/exclusive/rackets_and_drapes_candyland200306/index.php?page=1
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100528120833/http://www.hmmagazine.com/exclusive/subscribe_to_the_hm_podcast200606/index.php to http://www.hmmagazine.com/exclusive/subscribe_to_the_hm_podcast200606/index.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100403064516/http://www.tvulive.com/radiou/hxc.htm to http://tvulive.com/radiou/hxc.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is the section "Heavy metal music and Christianity" in Background relevant to this article? It has many citation needed tags and seems to be more about metal that is against Christianity. I believe this is completely different for Christian metal is genre we have many bands listed in List of Christian metal bands with all entries referenced. Will it be a problem to remove this section?Agamede (talk) 00:59, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It does discuss why Evangelical congregations had (have) a hard time accepting the genre. Walter Görlitz (talk) 08:30, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heavy metal music and Christianity 

message: Regarding my edit, I used terminology directly from the source. I felt phrases from the source were more fitting than the word positive (Flagrant hysterical curious (talk) 23:57, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I am considering this feedback option and would appreciate any feedback about my edit and/or if something like the aforementioned "third option" described seems pertinent to this disagreement. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flagrant hysterical curious (talk • contribs) 22:51, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:   I don't think that's necessary. I am watching the page and you have not contacted the editor who reverted you to discuss. Try that first. If they do not respond a few days after the ping, feel free to restore the wording. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:09, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

text:  Hello User:DESiegel. To me, they were marked by the words "Moberg states" (Flagrant hysterical curious (talk) 14:39, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  if the wors were a quotation, then they need to be explicitly marked as such with quotation marks or mthe use of  tags. See Wikipedia:Quotation. If it is na paraphrase, it needs to avoid being close enough to be a copyright infringement. I take it that the exact section of the source intended in the passage on p428, which reads;  Note that the term "non-satanic" does not appear in this passage, nor indeed in the entire source article as far as i can determine. Thus that term is in Wikipedia's voice.  I would add that with the source being a 9 page article in a longer conference proceedings, and since the source is paginated, specifing the exat page which is being referenced would be a good thing. If the different uses of this source use different pages,  can be used to indicate this. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 01:20, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Quotations do not need to use blockquote annotation, they can simply use quote marks. Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:51, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: My Edit

message: It's difficult to justify NFCC for an article like this, because it is possible to create and freely license Christian metal music ("No free equivalent" criterion). Regardless, the amount of non-free content in the previous version was clearly excessive because of "Minimal usage" requirement. (t · c) buidhe 21:07, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks  For the record, I asked the editor to explain why the media links were removed a bit more clearly. NFCC is :Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:13, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  NFCC and a general article 

message: You forgot some of the most important bands from 90s like Unashamed and focal point and Unashamed these guys were really important part of the scene 2600:1700:24D0:8160:FD2D:E270:10BF:B844 (talk) 03:13, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Totally forgot 

message: The term "white metal" is usually just used to describe unblack metal. 76.137.118.7 (talk) 16:10, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  I have a problem with the use of "white metal" here