Talk:Ayyavazhi mythology

message: I love it! Sam Spade 01:04, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The more I read it the better it gets, what an excellent job! Sam Spade 01:55, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Great article!

message: Ayya Vazhi can be distict from Hinduism as Mormonism is with Christianity although there's nothing objectionable or controversial about them. ( as many Christians do with Mormonism) At the same time, they can be considered part of Hinduism. For example, in addition to Puranas and Ramayana, etc, they recognize an additional scripture, Akilattirattu Ammanai. Key differences include the concept of a Satan-like figure, Kroni.
However, like smartism, and advaita, they believe that Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva are different aspects of the same God.
Vaikunda Raja, who has been writing all the articles of ayya vazhi,  is writing the article on Ayyavazhi and Hinduism. When he's finished, he will let me know.
Raj2004 18:47, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: How Ayya Vazhi is different from Hinduism

message: It is probably a good idea to make a short introduction paragraph with an overview of what Ayyavazhi is all about - and what relationship, if any, it has with Sanatana Dharma a.k.a. Hinduism.  I guess there will be a variety of opinions on this last point.  If so, it is probably best to represent them all. Luis Dantas
Ayya Vazhi can be distict from Hinduism as Mormonism is with Christianity although there's nothing objectionable or controversial about them. At the same time, they can be considered part of Hinduism. For example, in addition to Puranas and Ramayana, etc, they recognize an additional scripture, Akilattirattu Ammanai. Key differences include the concept of a Satan-like figure, Kroni. sort of like the book of mormon in addition to the Bible. They also reject the use of Sanskrit in Hindu rites and focus on vernacualar languages.
However, like smartism, and advaita, they believe that Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva are different aspects of the same God. Like smartism, they stress the formless aspect of God, Nirguna Brahman.
However, followers of Ayyavazhi differ from other Hindus in that they recognise a Satan-like figure, Kroni, who is the primordial manifestation of evil and manifests in various forms, for example, Ravana and Duryodhana, in different ages or yugas. In response to such manifestations of evil, God as Vishnu incarnates in his avatars, Rama, Krishna, etc., to destroy the evil.
Hindus believe the Kali Yuga is degraded by the spirit of the age but Ayya Vazhi age goes more explicitly in pointing out a satan-like figure.
Raj2004 17:52, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarification

message: Links should only included when there's a relevant article, or is likely to be one.  They shouldn't be made to redirects; when the article to which the user is redirected is alrady linked to in the article, no link is needed at all. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 22:31, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikilinks 

message: I'm concerned that the multiple different names used for individual Ayyavazhi divinities will make this wonderful article more confusing than is necessary for people unfamiliar with the topic. I started to try and rectify this, but then stopped. I figure I should throw this out for feedback from the other people working on this article, most particularly Raj. My suggestion is this: instead of interchangeably using "Lord Narayana", "Mayon" and "Vishnu," and doing the same with "Shiva," "Sivan" and "Isvaran," how about sticking to just the Tamil name of each one? In other words, in Ayyavazhi articles why don't we just call them "Mayon" and "Sivan," respectively, since Ayyavazhi appears to be a predominantly Tamil faith? Perhaps at the first usage of those names in each article we can identify that these are the Tamil synonyms for Shiva, Vishnu, Isvaran, Narayan, etc. But after that stick to the Tamil name.
Obviously, avatars would retain their own name.
Does that make sense to the rest of you, and to you, Raj? Could the same formula be applied to other proper nouns, e.g. the name of Sivan's abode? Babajobu 14:33, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Babajobu, what you have done with yuga/yukam is perfectly okay. The sanskrit word yuga is pronounced yugam in Tamil. The problem with pronounciation arises because there is no seperate letters for ka and ga in Tamil. Hence some Tamil speakers prefer to call it 'yukam', though most tamilians pronouce 'yugam'. So, 'yukam' here is same as the sanskrit 'yuga' except that the duration cycles are a little different here. And with reference to names, the deities that come up in Ayyavazhi are same as those in Hinduism, except that they are treated a little differently in Ayyavazhi mythology. Siva/Shiva is the same as Sivan, and this rule applies to all cases -- adding a suffix an after sanskrit names in order to tamilise it. Ideally Sivan should redirect to Shiva,.. and a note may be added in the Shiva page that Shiva is such and such in Ayyavazhi mythology. - Srini81 15:33, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Srini81, that is extremely helpful, and I'm glad that the yukam-to-yuga changes were appropriate. Can I ask you where the name "Mayon", for Vishnu, comes from? Is "Mayon" predominantly used by Tamil-speakers? Thank you again very much for your comments. Babajobu 17:07, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

text: Well, first, there are an awful lot of instances of "yukam" ledt in this and many other articles — you've taken on a big job.  But, secondly, if Ayyavazhi uses Tamil rather than Sanskrit terms, shouldn't we stick with those?  After all, in Buddhist articles we don't translate Pali terms into Sanskrit.  Even given what Srini81, says, the fact that the Ayyavazhi system of yukams is different from the Hindu system of yugas would be kept clearer if a slightly different term were used in each case.  The internal links could be to the same article, Yuga#Yukam, with details of the Ayyavazhi notion given there. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 17:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Mel, yes, when I changed Shiva to Sivan I was trying to go with the Tamil usage. Perhaps the same should go for yukam. I didn't realize it was the Tamil usage, because Raj said that Tamils pronounce "yukam" as "yugam", which led me to think the "yukam" transliteration was non-Tamil. But now Srini has clarified that the yukam/yugam thing is a result of a single letter in Tamil for both voiced ("g") and unvoiced ("k") velar fricatives. So I don't know where that leaves us. Maybe yukam really is better. I think Srini was just saying that either is fine. Babajobu 17:12, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

text: The article can easily be worded so as to head off the fallacious inference from "Ayyavazhi uses 'yukam'" to "'yukam' is only used in Ayyavazhi". --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 11:26, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not going to be on Wikipedia for a while, so unfortunately I'm forced to leave the article split between "yuga" and "yukam". Apologies for that. Babajobu 08:42, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harmonizing names 

message: Since this appears to be a set of scriptures that are sacred to millions of people who believe in them, I am wondering if the phrase "Ayyavazhi mythology" is not expressive of a point-of-view that perhaps is not shared by the significant numbers who consider them true. This is a living world religion pratised today, not a "mythology". As for the category of this naem, it seems there are already plenty of other categories for Ayyavazhi religion to make a mythology category unnecessary.   I have opened a discussion on this at:
Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Religion#List_of_articles_where_mythology_cats_are_potentially_problematic
Regards, Blockinblox 14:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Mythology" or "religion"?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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