Talk:Afrocentrism/Archive 2

message: Hopefuly the following list of works will get us one step closer towards getting an historiographically balanced article with respects to Afroecentric scholarship; and hopefuly these will also prove useful to address the two opposite concerns — the argument against Afrocentric scholarship's vilification posed by DC, and the argument against its overrepresentation as and/or vs. scholarly consensus, as posed by WW. [I am not familliar with the contents of any of these. List's order is random as per the search querry - sadly, few were linkable at the source]:
* Molefi Kete Asante, "In search of an Afrocentric historiography," Congress International d'estudis Africans, Barcelona, Jan 12-15, 2004. PDF
* Walker, Clarence E. We Can't Go Home Again: An Argument about Afrocentrism(Oxford University Press, 2000)
*  Marry R. Lefkowitz, "Teaching Ancient History Through Controversy," The Occasional Papers of the American Philological Association's Committee on Ancient History 1 (2002) 14–26 PDF 
* W. C. Banks. "The theoretical and methodological crisis of Afrocentric conception," Journal of Negro Education, 61 (3), 1992, 262-272. 
* Kwame Appiah, "Europe Upside Down: Fallacies of the New Afrocentrism," repreinted in Times Literary Supplement, 1993.  
* Collins, P. H. Black feminist thought: Knowledge, consciousness and the politics of empowerment. (Unwin Hyman, Boston, 1990) 
* Molefi Kete Asante, The Afrocentric Idea Revised and Expanded Edition overview
* J. S. D. Dei, "Knowledge and politics of social change: the implication of anti-racism." British Journal of Sociology of Education, 20 (3), 395-409.
* Giddings, G. J., "Infusion of Afrocentric content into the school curriculum," Journal of Black Studies, 31 (4), 2001, 462-482.
* C. D. Lee, K. Lomotey and M. Shujaa, "How shall we sing our sacred song in a strange land? The dilemma of double consciousness and the complexities of an african-centred pedagogy." Journal of Education, 172 (2), 2001, 45-60.  
* Asante, M. K. Afrocentricity: The theory of social change. (Amulefi, NY, 1980).
* Milam, J. H. The emerging paradigm of Afrocentric research methods. (Association for the Study of Higher Education, 1992). 
* Ruth Reviere Rethinking Open and distance Education Practices: Barriers to Learning PDF
* Nobles, W. W. African psychology: Toward its reclamation, reascension and revitalization. (Institute for the Advanced Study of Black Family Life and Culture, Oakland, CA, 1986).
* E. Oliver, "An Afrocentric approach to literature: Putting the pieces back together," English Journal, 77 (5), 1988, 49-53.
 
* Ruth Reviere, "Towards an Afrocentric research methodology." Journal of Black Studies, 31 (6), 2001, 709-728.   
* Myers, Linda James. Understanding an Afrocentric world view : introduction to an optimal psychology (Kendall/Hunt Pub. Co., 1993)
 
* Richard M. Huber, "Contending Viewpoints: Rethinking American Cultural Studies," Journal of American & Comparative Cultures, Vol. 24 Isssue 3-4, 2001, 37-
* Asante, Molefi K. Afrocentricity (Africa World Press, 1988)
* Mills, Charles W. Blackness visible : essays on philosophy and race (Cornell University Press, 1998).
El_C 06:40, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm reading Not out of Africa by Mary Leftkowitz and Afrocentrism by Stephen Howe right now. Leftkowitz's book is relatively narrow as it mainly focuses on debunking various claims of Afrocentrism, namely, how the greeks stole their knowledge from the mythicl egypt. Howe's book is more encompassing as it describes the origin, pscyhology, profiles on almost every afrocentrist, and why it persists. Both books don't really shine well on afrocentric scholarship.  Wareware 07:28, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, though, Wareware, they are both notable critics of Afrocentric scholarship. Do you plan to read any of the works by the more notable Afrocentric scholars, such as Asante though? Don't you have mid-terms to attend to, anyway? ;) El_C 07:45, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: my midterms are done this week thx for asking:) But I still got lots to do but I'll try to contribute. I don't think I'm going to devote my time reading pro-afrocentric works, especially by Asante. I'll read about his positions and reasoning from criticial sources. I can't really trust Asante because he wrote that Aristotle studied at the Library of Alexandria and appropriated egyptian philosophy, while in reality the library was built after both Alexander's and Aristotle's death. Mary Leftkowitz challenged him in this point during a seminar at Wellsely and Asante refused to cite his sources or how he arrived at this conclusion and instead accused her of racist motives. That alone pretty much persuaded me not to read any afrocentric work. But the book by Howe is pretty valuable in that it presents the origin and reasoning, not just point-by-point refutation, so I'll read that and find something.  Wareware 09:57, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: It's already a given that Afrocentric scholars are scholars. Whether they are radical –in the positive or negative sense of the word– is not relevanet to the fact that they write scholarly works, publish articles in academic journals, hold professorial positions and instruct students; none of these things are being –nor had they come under– dispute here. El_C 10:58, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, not merely among scholars, but what is generally considered to be the –consensus– among them regarding Afrocentric scholarship (or notable currents therein). That is what I asked for, repeatedly. Regardless how well-respected they might be within academia, their views may still be marganalized within the mainstream scholarship, and in that case, the article needs to reflect that. I will get this point across even if ... I will get this point across. El_C 10:57, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: racist, white supremacist assumptions regarding the contributions of nonwhite peoples to world history. What's this, a strawman attack that makes all Western research "white supremacist"? You gotta be kidding me. Renaissance, the Enlightenment, nationalism and related ideas and philosophies are western ideas, so what's so "white supremacist" about it. I don't think any Chinese person that I've talked to regard history as white supremacist or Eurocentric at best. Saying so is rather vitriolic.  Wareware 03:03, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Afrocentric scholarship: let's try this again

message: Why is the bibliography in a smaller font than the rest of the piece?  (Am I suddenly in need of bifocals?)  Is this Wiki style? deeceevoice 06:00, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Many things; appearence; possibly; sure. El_C 07:43, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: The Wiki is loose, so these sort of modifications are considered to be within the realm of editorial discretion (rather than a binding manual of style formula). I find using footnote-sized font for the references to be of some minor cosmetic benefit when these are lengthy reference lists, which tends to be the case for articles I am involved in. Since I was the one who created the references section and added all the scholarly works into it (i.e. with normal fonts it was disporportionately lengthy versus the body of the article), it reflects my preference on this front. El_C 10:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: What's with the teeny, weeny print?

message: Areas of study by Afrocentrists
Afrocentric history traces and emphasizes important contributions of blacks, beginning with the high civilizations of Africa, particularly Egypt and Kush. It also focuses on black, or Tamil, southern India before the Persian incursions, as well as on the black African participation in the Moorish domination of the Iberian peninsula during the Middle Ages— and, among others, on the sizable empires of Ghana, Mali, and Songhai.
The introductory definition mentions "black contributions."  Listing these specific areas of interest, I think, gives the wrong impression; it is too limiting.  There are Afrocentric scholars (in terms of the lens through which they interpret history) who focus on black contributions throughout history and across the globe -- and in the modern era, as well.  I think it's best to simply leave this out.  If there is a desire to mention these areas of focus (and I can see that it could be useful to do so), it should be included in the article in another fashion -- one that won't give the false impression that these are the only areas of study, or even the primary, areas of study/expertise of Afrocentric historians.  That is simply not the case.  deeceevoice 08:24, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no objections to that change as such, but that section should exist with a more pertinent account regarding areas of studies (at least some of the more notable current therein – déjà vu).  El_C 11:06, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted

message: This article has been made infinitely better since the last time I dropped in. Well done. You better throw up a wall and dig a moat, Deeceevoice must be raising an army. Babajobu 11:32, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hear, hear! Well done! El_C 07:05, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Nice Work

message: I think we should all avoid making personal remarks about other contributors:
* your silly comments
* got a bug up your butt
* you do not know 
* You know perfectly well 
* your conduct on that front –that you don't see it defeats your own points– never ceases to baffle me
If you need help, please ask a Mediator (like me for instance). -- Uncle Ed (talk) 15:52, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)
:Dear Uncle Ed, if we do need a mediator, we will need someone who is impartial -- not someone who apparently sees fit to criticize the contributions of a single member.  Perhaps your services can be utilized elsewhere on Wikipedia.  *x* deeceevoice 20:16, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Civility has nothing to do with contributions, and deeceevoice does seem to be the only one here to consistently be directing such uncivil, emotional exclamations towards other editors. It is my opinion that Ed is correct and has every right to insist on civility, as I and other here also have. El_C 03:54, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Civility

message: Shouldn't the article also mention W.E.B. DuBois activism for the recognition of African culture and the "Encyclopedia Africana" as one important afrocentric work? (Pharlap 06:36, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think that DuBois should be in there, but it is hard to know where to put him. He's a very subtle thinker, and difficult to summarise. Also, his views changed quite a bit. Much of his early work draws on philosophical models and assumptions that are rather alien today and difficult to summarise. I think part of the problem arises from the difficulty of delimiting the concept of Afrocentrism itself. It's the 'mythic' aspect that has the "pulling-power", as it were. I think it would be wise to extend the history bit to look at the early attempts to create alternative histories of what were termed 'colored peoples', 'negroes' or Africans. Du Bois should be placed there, I still think there should be stress on the more mythic version initiated by James. (Paul B 19:20, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  DuBois