Talk:Kentucky/Archive 2

message: * Christian – 86%
          o Protestant – 70%
                + Baptist – 35%
                + Methodist – 5%
                + Pentecostal – 4%
                + Church of Christ – 3%
                + Lutheran – 2%
                + Presbyterian – 2%
                + Other Protestant – 19%
          o Roman Catholic – 15%
          o Other Christian – 1%
    * Jewish 0.01%
    * Other Religions – <1%
    * Non-religious – 14%
----
101%
Somehow they manage to have more religion than people!
Citizen Premier 13:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kentucky is amazing 

message: The article refers to two terms that aren't defined or linked to other WIKI pages. Can someone who knows something about something please define:
a) CSA
b) Commonwealth
-- Dweller 17:04, 17 May 2006 (GMT+1)
:Good questions, (not stupid). I added a wiki link to Commonwealth (United States) in the article. I think CSA means combined statistical area. Not absolutely sure. Will try and find out. FloNight talk 22:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stupid questions 

message: Added significant historical information related to the assassination of Governor Goebel.  Author Irvin S. Cobb interviewed several eye witnesses; this is, in my opinion, very important historical information on Kentucky’s history, though "History" my eventually need a "Main Article."  I also do not see anything related to why Kentucky decided to separate from the Commonwealth of Virginia.  As a Kentucky historian, this is all important and relevant information on the history of this commonwealth.
--Kentucky1333 21:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Assassination of Governor William Goebel

message: Garrett Morgan, born to former slaves in Paris, invented the first gas mask.
Not true.  According to http://www33.brinkster.com/iiiii/gasmask/page.html , Charles Anthony Deane invented the very first gas mask in 1823, known as a "smoke helmet".  WhyNotFreedom 21:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Garrett Morgan was born in Paris, Kentucky. Alan Canon 14:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that I made that mistake, I've amended the entry to make it clearer for other people who may also be unaware that there's a Paris in Kentucky. Dweller 14:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting facts about Kentucky 

message: I can tell, or I hope at least, that most of the people who have edited this wiki are from the triangle.  I find it hard to believe that any REAL (IE not Bowling Green) Western Kentuckian would completely ignore half the state. ;)
Really though, someone needs to edit the important cities area a little.  I can understand maybe not including cities like Murray, Paducah or Henderson as important, but you have to at least include Owensboro.  Owensboro is the third largest in the state, the commercial center of North Western Kentucky, the only place to find the best BBQ ever, and has in the past several years picked up an amazing pace of commercial growth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.226.181.104 (talk • contribs) 
:I don't think Owensboro was intentionally left out.  Perhaps nobody could decide what to say about Owensboro and how to fit it in.  Perhaps you will consider adding in this content since you are closely acquainted with it? — Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 22:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Important Cities

message: More good pictures are needed on this website. IF no one else is, I will try to take some pictures of the Versailes Castle, Old Frankfort Pike, Pisgah Historic Cemetary, and one of the distilaries and upload them in the next few days. 4.225.126.175 03:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures suck

message: Before I just go ahead and add this, let me ask... one of my clients has an educational website, a corner of which has a PDF map generator which I developed. Would it be appropriate to add a link to the Kentucky map generator in the "external links" section? The map is generated on-the-fly by the server based on user criteria, so it's not a static document or image that I could actually give to wikipedia. Here is a link to the form that creates the kentucky map: www.worksheetworks.com/geog/usa/kentucky.html Thoughts? If it looks like spam then I do not want it added. Rhassinger 20:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The old saw goes: "Wikipedia is not a web directory".  Just because a site relates to Kentucky doesn't mean it should be linked here.  External links should be about extending the encyclopedic content regarding the subject 'Kentucky'.  On the other hand, if the map that's generated is useful in describing Kentucky (in a way the article currently does not), a direct link to what is generated, or an image of that, might be useful. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 01:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External site link 

message: This sentence in the History section seems to be a pretty broad generalization and is unsupported.
--The majority of the Commonwealth's citizens also had strong Union sympathies.--
-Crunchy Numbers 14:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At the beginning of the war, this statement is very true.  In the election of 1860, most Kentuckians voted for John Bell of Tennessee of the Constitutional Union Party.  Kentuckians wanted to keep slavery and stay in the Union.  By the end of the war, the sympathies had dramatically changed toward the Confederates.  Perhaps this subject should be covered more in-depth in the History of Kentucky article. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 15:11, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: from the Economy section:
*Historically, a major problem with Kentucky's economy has been that fact that outside the Ohio River towns and Lexington, most rural counties never developed a widespread and localized industrial economy; meaning that up until World War II most families still depended on subsistence farming for survival. This is also the reason that most rural counties have only one sizeable town and still have median household incomes that are often half the U.S. national average.
Why is it a major problem that a rural county is rural?  Alot of those people making half the national average have a nice house with land and friends and family near by and low living expenses. How many people making the national average are living in an apartment complex in the city somewhere? -Crunchy Numbers 15:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at a map of US Ave Income by County, Easterm & parts of South Central KY stand out (along w/ the Mexican border) as the poorest region in the US by far. Also, those counties have an absloute pandemic of drug problems, both addiction & trafficing. I am from one of those counties (Casey County), and just this year there have been 10 teenagers die from Meth overdosing and nearly every store down there has been robbed. Last month my cousin discovered an abandoned meth lab in the house over the hill where my grandparents used to live. Last year we found cultivated marijauna plants growing down there, and my relatives are constantly having things stolen by drug addicts from right off their front yards, even gas syphoned out of their tanks... I simply do not feel safe down there like I use to. Also, most of those small counties have as many murders as Lexington does. It is much worse than most places in the US & it is due to a complete lack of good jobs. I would like to pretend this isn't the case but it is. If anything, that section I wrote glossed over the problem 4.225.121.12 03:12, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economy section:  major problem?   

message: I think there should be a link to Kentucky Educational Television, in part because it is the largest PBS network in the country. Do y'all think it is appropriate for the Kentucky article, and if so, where should it go? Lamont A Cranston 18:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a discussion of it naturally goes under "Education", but that section right now is just a collection of links.  Perhaps it could be listed as a "See also" at the top of this section for now. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 18:58, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kentucky Educational Television

message: In case anyone here is interested.-Crunchy Numbers 20:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  nominated [[Cuisine of Kentucky]] for deletion 

message: The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader must be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, because Wikipedia does not publish original thought or original research. 
Help is available for showing the sources of content. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 02:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Enough! Tell us in talk what needs cites. Put up or shut up. Until then, reinstating the tag will be reverted into oblivion. I've had enough of this shit. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 02:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's the lazy-editor syndrome. I had a user slap on a delete tag on Harveytown Park minutes after I created it and before I had any time to add any content. These users need to realise that they should contribute quality and content to Wikipedia, not tags throughout thousands of pages to boost their edit count. People (like myself) are tired of their poor efforts.  Seicer (talk) (contribs) 02:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's clearly a fixation, and it doesn't actually work to add useful content to the Wikipedia.  Cites should only be demanded on controversial or disputable statements.  Otherwise, let the community decide what's correct.  If we can't be allowed to work it this way, many editors will likely quit due to the difficulty and stress of finding perfect cites for every other sentence.  People should remember that we aren't being paid to do this work. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 02:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still unsourced 

message: I know Kentucky has the third most counties of any state in the nation (a fact which I just added to the article), but I once heard that the reason there are so many was so that each county seat would be no more than a day's journey on horseback from every other contiguous county seat. I can't find this documented anywhere, but if someone could find it, I think it'd make an interesting addition to the article.
Acdixon 19:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoops, I'm wrong.  It is indeed third most number. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 17:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of counties 

message: Do we really need the sections "15 largest Kentucky cities, 2010 Projected" and "15 most populated counties, 2010 Projected"? I agree with the reviewer that they are "listy." Will I really burst someone's bubble by removing them?
: Agreed.  They are "listy" and while I personally find the data to be fascinating, the article would flow better without them. Mescad 15:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Per this comment and no others, I have removed these sections. Acdixon 16:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Largest city projections

message: I also agree that we should be working to absorb items from Interesting facts about Kentucky into other sections of the article. Can we at least refrain from adding to that list? Hopefully, we'll eventually be able to relocate all of that information.
:As for the Interesting Facts section, I did place U of L's medical acheivements at the top because someone else DELETED them off the same list. I was hoping that other people would list acheiments of their in state schools (of which there are many), not cover up anything U of L does. The items listed are international headline achiements,  so I feel that they elevate the state enough to deserve listing.unsigned
::I was probably the one who "deleted" them, although what I did was move them to the more appropriate location in Education in Kentucky per the suggestion from the peer review. When more was added about UofL's accomplishments, I copied them instead, but I maintain that they belong in the Education daughter article so we can eventually eliminate the "Interesting facts". Acdixon 16:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Interesting facts section

message: I added this section to absorb some facts from "Interesting facts", but honestly, the ones listed there ought to be the creme de la creme of people from Kentucky, which I doubt it now is. I propose we hold nominations for the Top Ten Most Important Kentuckians to determine who goes on the list in the main article, with the remainder occupying List of famous Kentuckians. Thoughts?
Here's my list (in no particular order) of the ten most notable Kentuckians from List of famous Kentuckians:
*Muhammed Ali
*Henry Clay
*Jefferson Davis
*Duncan Hines
*Abraham Lincoln
*Diane Sawyer
*Zachary Taylor
*George Clooney
*Johnny Depp
*Tom Cruise
Just getting the ball rolling here; feel free to disagree. Acdixon 19:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable natives

message: I have recently been trying to go back and cite all statements in this article that might be considered in need of verification. I have just a few left, and am asking for your help in getting them done. Hopefully, some of you added these statements and remember where they came from.
*The "Origin of Name" section claims it is from The Kentucky Encyclopedia. Does anyone have access to this book to do a proper cite with ref tags?
*"Also there is a section of Kentucky across the Ohio connected to Indiana near Evansville." I actually live near that area and didn't know this. Anyone know what the section of land is called?
*"Kentucky's ongoing neutrality prompted some Confederate officers to remove the central star from their battle flags (see the battle flag of General Braxton Bragg)."
*"Bush won the state's 8 electoral votes overwhelmingly in 2004 by a margin of 20 percentage points and 59.6% of the vote."
*"The most solidly Democratic counties are in the mountainous eastern unionized coal mining region, especially Pike, Floyd, Knott, Menifee, Letcher, Perry and Breathitt, and the cities of Lexington and Louisville. The Jackson Purchase area in the far west was historically a Democratic stronghold but has moved Republican recently. Paducah author Irvin S. Cobb once wrote of the purchase area: "There was no doubt about our district. Whatever might betide, she was safe and sound - a Democratic Rock of Ages." The area was once referred to as the Gibraltar of Democracy." Do we even need this paragraph?
*"In 2007, the Big Four Bridge in Louisville will be converted into the world's second longest pedestrian-only bridge" Can we verify the "second longest pedestrian bridge" claim?
*"Kentucky will be home to the two longest pedestrian-only bridges in the world and the only two in the United States connecting two states" Can we verify the "only two in the U.S. connecting two states"?
Thanks for any help you can provide with this. Acdixon 17:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: I know a lot of people who know more about history than I have put in some hard work on the History section and daughter article, so I thought it best to ask here before taking action. I feel that the fourth paragraph of the History section on the main article is too specific for the main article. It reads:
"On September 4, 1861, Confederate General Leonidas Polk broke Kentucky's neutrality by invading Columbus, Kentucky.Kentucky Members of the Confederate Congress (1861-1862) As a result of the Confederate invasion, Union General Ulysses S. Grant entered Paducah, Kentucky.Civil War Sites - Paducah, KY On September 7, 1861, the Kentucky State Legislature, angered by the Confederate invasion, ordered the Union flag to be raised over the state capitol in Frankfort, declaring its allegiance with the Union.Encyclopedia Brittanica (1911) - quoted in Online Encyclopedia Kentucky's ongoing neutrality prompted some Confederate officers to remove the central star from their battle flags (see the battle flag of General Braxton Bragg). On August 13, 1862, Confederate General Edmund Kirby Smith's Army of East Tennessee invaded Kentucky and on August 28, 1862, Confederate General Braxton Bragg's Army of Mississippi entered Kentucky beginning the Kentucky Campaign.Louisville During the Civil War Bragg's retreat following the Battle of Perryville left the state under the control of the Union Army for the remainder of the war.Perryville - Civil War in Kentucky"
I think the third paragraph provides a nice synopsis of Kentucky in the Civil War. I would like to remove the fourth paragraph from the main article and move it to the daughter article or the Kentucky in the Civil War article. Any thoughts? Acdixon 15:39, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as the content survives, I'm open to this.  On top of this, I am concerned with the text "Although frequently erroneously described as never having seceded, the state did pass an Ordinance of Secession on November 20, 1861 at the Russellville Convention" -- The state did not do this!  The Russellville Convention was not an official meeting of the General Assembly but rather Confederates.  To say the state passed this is erroneous. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 16:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wondered about this myself, but I'm no Kentucky history expert so I left it. Please suggest a more accurate text, as I am hoping to re-nominate this article for Good Article status by year's end. Acdixon 18:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, the fact about both presidents being from Kentucky is mentioned in the Notable natives section, but a rewrite of the History section might facilitate incorporating it there as well. I think these suggestions are well-taken, and would result in a better article. As I said, I'm not much of a historian, but I did minor in technical writing in college. If we could get some properly-sourced facts out there, perhaps I could cobble them together. Acdixon 12:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Please review my edits to the paragraph concerning the Russellville Convention (and the supporting sources used in composing it) and see if it seems to accurately reflect what occurred in the state. Acdixon 19:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears accurate to me.  Thanks for revising it. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 14:51, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to delete fourth paragraph of History section 

message: A few weeks back, I asked for input on Kentucky's most notable natives (see above). No one even bothered to comment. Yet over the long weekend, we've now had people delete Tom Cruise and George Clooney and add Nick Lachey, - who has since been deleted - Ashley Judd, and E. A. Diddle. None of these edits were made with any explanation. The list of notable Kentuckians is long, as evidenced by List of famous Kentuckians, but the ones in the main article ought to be the most notable. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable case that Ashley Judd, Nick Lachey, or E. A. Diddle is more notable than Tom Cruise and George Clooney or even Colonel Harland Sanders (who I originally left off to keep the list shorter.) 
So, can we now have the discussion about who the 10 or 15 most notable Kentuckians are? Or should we avoid the inevitable bickering and just add List of famous Kentuckians to the See Also section and delete Notable natives (per "good article" Minnesota)? This might help address the stability criterion for a good article. Please comment. Acdixon 13:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable natives 

message: Where did this term come from?-Crunchy Numbers 17:15, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you provide a cite for this CJ quote? If Crunchy Numbers is interested, other folks might be as well. Acdixon 17:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  golden triangle? 

message: I'm an alum of Western Kentucky University, and it is nice to have some things in this article that don't involve Louisville or Lexington, but does anyone really believe that WKU is one of Kentucky's flagship universities, as suggested by a December 2 edit by 68.169.52.135? I believe my claims that UK and UofL are the flagships are justified, as they are charged with becoming a Top 20 Public Research University and a preeminent metropolitan research university respectively under the Postsecondary Education Improvement Act of 1997. To me, that's the legislature saying that those two schools are the flagships. In order to avoid upsetting any of my fellow WKU alums, I've posted the topic here for discussion, but barring a convincing reason to leave it in, I'm removing Western from that sentence. Acdixon 03:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, the caption on the Speed School picture incorrectly says U of L is "one of KY's flagships". I understand what you mean, but techniquely UK is the only land grant and flagship university. It would be better to say that U of L and UK are the major academic research universities, and have similar admissions requirements, and are the only two to have medical schools/ hospitals. Their endowments are both more than 4X the 3rd place school, WKU.  The other state universities are also classified as being regional universities, that is they cater to a specific region of the state and generally have open admissions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.225.126.161 (talk) 17:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps I'm not familiar with the official definition of flagship, then, which is entirely possible. Could someone enlighten me? I do want the sentence to be accurate. Incidentally, the reference to UK and UofL being the flagships was removed by 68.169.52.135 this morning. I'm tempted to restore it, but I'd rather have it right first. If the user's motivation is resentment for the Golden Triangle, nobody understands that better than someone from rural western Kentucky like myself, but the facts are the facts. Acdixon 16:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flagships? 

message: When I re-formatted the Kentucky State Symbols Section, creating a table to show the information, I checked Wikiarticle List of U.S. state insignia, I noticed there is a list of state grasses.
If any states has a state grass, I thought it would be Kentucky. After all it's the "Bluegrass State." But of all the states that have declared a state grass, Kentucky wasn't listed.
I searched the web, and found the website sited as the source for the "Year Adopted". Nope no state grass has been officially adopted.
However, the state insignia article noted some state symbols listed by popular acclaim. Though I have never heard of anyone referring to bluegrass as the "state grass," I strongly feel as a native and life-long resident that bluegrass is one of the symbols of the state. I listed as "State Grass" rather than "Official State Grass" and put "traditional".  I'm feeling a little guilty because it has the feeling of "some argue" to insert a personal opinion. 
That said, horrified as I was to learn that milk was the official state beverage, and as sorely tempted as I was to add "State Sprit|Mint Juelp| |Traditional", there's also bourbon.  But for a state grass there is no else in contention (cannibis isn't technically a grass). 
Scott 08:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kentucky State Symbols