Talk:Complex post-traumatic stress disorder

message: Section 1.3 is disjointed and needs some clarification and polishing. Why is this idea controversial? Who is for and who is against this idea? What research backs up either claim? Why does C-PTSD's supposed similarity to BPD "[underline] the fragility of C-PTSD as an empirical diagnostic category separate from PTSD"? What symptoms does C-PTSD share with BPD? (And let's keep in mind that we are encouraged to stay away from "weasel words.") The attempt to use attachment theory to explain a commonality between BPD and C-PTSD is poorly written and unclear, as are the last three sentences that attempt to explain the differences between C-PTSD and BPD. 66.225.163.6 (talk) 22:05, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to add that there is a source problem in this section. Citation #27 is a citation of a citation. The primary source would be Judith Herman's 1992 book Trauma and Recovery. However, I do not believe that the citation in this Wiki article should be changed until there is verification of the wording in the primary source and a clean up done of this section. 66.225.163.6 (talk) 23:33, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Section 1.3 Attachment theory, BPD and C-PTSD

message: CPTSD isn't a term that is used that generally in the literature regarding trauma.  Much more commonly used terms are Complex Trauma and Developmental Trauma Disorder, see, for example
 http://www.traumacenter.org/products/pdf_files/Preprint_Dev_Trauma_Disorder.pdf
So, I think adding the aka is helpful for reader to find the relationships among these various terms.  
OK? 
AxisOfCharm (talk) 15:55, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: See almost identical issue here.Fainites barleyscribs 16:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Developmental Trauma Disorder addition to lead sentence

message: I alphabetized the list, got rid of some that seemed out of place, and added a couple.  Still needs to be shortened more but I think it's better at least. Forgotten Faces (talk) 01:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  see also section 

message: Admittedly I just archived the page and I could be missing it, but why is this one CP-TSD when regular PTSD is without the dash?  Should the page be renamed?  WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 13:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Argh, this has been bothering me too.  On the PTSD talk page they have argued it to death. I say we change it to CPTSD, no dash. Forgotten Faces (talk) 16:12, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Was consensus reached on PTSD?  Can you link to a talk page section?  We can't just move it now, we need the page history retained, which means we need an admin and consensus.  WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 16:43, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is the most recent archived discussion. Forgotten Faces (talk) 18:08, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Want more practice?  I'd say throw it to WP:PM to standardize with PTSD.  See if anyone screams.  'tis better to beg forgiveness than ask permissino (or, WP:BRD, take your pick).  WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 19:08, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I was going to BRD but it wouldn't let me, so I threw up the proposed move template.  Thanks, you are helping me a ton. Forgotten Faces (talk) 19:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: I do agree that forms of trauma associated with C-PTSD include physical abuse, emotional abuse, so why not to refer to Khan, M. (1964). Ego distorsion, cumulative trauma and the role of reconstruction in the analytic situation. In International Journal of Psychoanalysis, 45, pp. 272-279.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.71.110.39 (talk) 17:41, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: what does the article say? Why add it? Williamsville (talk) 13:59, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Forms of trauma: cumulative trauma 

message: I'm a C-PTSD patient not a practitioner, this comment might affect more than one paragraph but so be it. On a number of external weblogs there's been quite a bit of discussion lately that many of us with C-PTSD also have alexithymia (severe difficulty feeling emotions or understanding them in others, also low creativity). Patients with this condition may find that it makes it next to impossible to successfully pursue most therapies, certainly EMDR in my experience is one, probably CBT as well, I never attempted DBT but I kind of doubt it works either, basically any method where getting a valid answer to the question "how does this make you feel?" will have problems. Now there has been much work recently particularly by Sebern Fisher (she has an informative book out about it, the forward was written by none other than Dr. Bessel van der Kolk) about applying infra-low neurofeedback techniques to the treatment of developmental trauma. I'm in the early stages of such a program so I'm not able to comment yet on its effectiveness but I think the issue of alexithymia itself ought to be mentioned, and perhaps that there are those seeing some relief from neurofeedback techniques especially when other options are not working, I don't wish to be dismissed as "an advocate" because I'm just trying to get well myself but I thought there might be others who could benefit from this information. Jlawton11 (talk) 21:38, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You'd need a source to back you, not just personal experience...--KimYunmi (talk) 17:44, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure you got my point, this form of neurofeedback treatment works by a computer monitoring electrodes placed on your skull and making subtle changes in the computer display that the patient is observing, and this "incentivizes" the brain to make changes in the observed EEG patterns thereby accomplishing "training" to overcome the fear response and reorganize itself along more natural response patterns (what actually happens is pretty technical but I believe this description is adequate for current purposes). At no time in the therapy is the patient "asked about his feelings" therefore the alexithymia doesn't serve to invalidate the mechanism of therapy. Now I'm personally starting to see some overall benefit from the therapy but my whole point is about recognizing that there exists a way to do therapy which circumvents the mechanism by which the alexithymia invalidates most of them. I don't believe by this formulation of the problem I'm imposing any "value judgments" but I'll try to take another crack at it if you still don't agree.Jlawton11 (talk) 11:54, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion of treatment needs update 

message: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4165723/
That one. I thought I would put it up for consideration and inclusion. The study found that they could distinguish between comorbidity and individual cases of having just c-ptsd. Published 2014. Because that section of the article is sparse.
Also, it might be worth mentioning that the World Health Organization included c-PTSD as a separate diagnosis from both PTSD and borderline in the lead and in the article in their ICD: Reference: http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/newsletters/research-quarterly/V25N2.pdf
--KimYunmi (talk) 17:44, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Study distinguishes Borderline, PTSD and c-PTSD

message: The introduction describing the causes of C-PTSD currently includes victims of parents or guardians with Narcissistic Personality Disorder but there is no mention of relationships with people (especially with a parent or guardian) who have Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD). Perhaps that could be included and/or people with Cluster B personality disorders in general.
Cyrus Freedman (talk) 21:30, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Causes of C-PTSD

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In particular, there's the bit about PAS that cites Childress. Besides the bad formatting, I'm struggling to find how it's directly relevant to symptoms of C-PTSD in children and adolescents; to my eye, it looks as though it was meant to be edited into the article about Parental Alienation Syndrome and accidentally ended up here. But it's possible I'm missing something. If the information is deemed relevant, I'd like to fix the formatting, but first wanted to check if others thought it should even be there in the first place. 73.61.15.187 (talk) 01:41, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maybe the children and adolescent symptoms section could be cleaned up? 

message: The entire section was removed and I don't think that is what is best. I propose we trim it down a bit and take out some of the long quote, or summarize it? TantraYum (talk) 19:50, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. The shortened version makes the section unnecessary and the attached articles don't differentiate the diagnoses like the original section which is pertinent to the article. The original probably should cut down that one reference and retain at least some of the references made in that section, cutting the fat. I added a valid reference to that section originally that was summarily cut without discussion that could help cut it down a bit. If there is going to be a new article--that's different from cutting everyone's work on that section. --KimYunmi (talk) 02:15, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: @KimYunmi I mean considering the debate about what the differences are between the two & the fact that C-PTSD is often misdiagnosed as BPD. Wouldn't it then be ideal to just have a line saying it can be a differential for & confused with BPD and leaving it as that to prevent confusion? 86.14.56.116 (talk) 13:58, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That was 2018. I fixed it since then since we had consensus and restored and cut down the previous version. Check the dates and edit history. KimYunmi (talk) 18:33, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that this section can still be trimmed down a bit or cleaned up.--Bbettencourt (talk) 04:09, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: BPD and C-PTSD

message: The lead says "not DNS based" but does not explain what DNS means in this context. I would be appropriate to expand the acronym or to “link” it, I believe. I can’t do this myself, since I am not familiar with the topic. Ariadacapo (talk) 11:43, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing this out. The sentence's topic „DNS“ is occuring in is nature versus nurture. Therefore I guess, desoxyribonucleic acid is meant and I altered the acronym accordingly. The person who added that paragraph might also speak German, where DNA is abbreviated as . -- K (T | C) 15:13, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Terrific :-) Thank you for the thorough and collegial answer, and the edit. Ariadacapo (talk) 19:03, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acronym in lead 

message: CPTSD is related to a number of disorders, and the introduction to this article can do a better job explaining that.
* It encompasses DESNOS (Disorders of Extreme Stress Not Otherwise Specified)
* it encompasses EPCACE (Enduring Personality Changes After Catastrophic Events), which is also called Concentration Camp Syndrome
* It is another name for Dissociative Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Dissociative Amnesia is a symptom of CPTSD. If PTSD and Dissociative Identity Disorder can be thought of as belonging to a continuum of disorders, with PTSD having an ANP and an EP, and DID having multiple ANPs and EPs. CPTSD is PTSD having two or more EPs.
* CPTSD can come from severe, personality altering extreme stress (e.g., being a prisoner of war, kidnapping), or lower level but more chronic stress (e.g., years of psychological abuse)
* CPTSD can develop from multiple independent traumatic responses interacting with each other, such as witnessing physical abuse as a child and then being in an abusive relationship as an adult.
* CPTSD is commonly called Childhood Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, because it also develop during childhood as a result of exposure to abuse, or from growing up in a Narcissistic household.
Joe Easterly (talk) 19:51, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguating CPTSD from other mental/behavioral disorders 

message: “…motivations behind such abuse vary, though mostly being predominantly malicious, it has also been shown that the motivations behind such abuse can occasionally be well-intentioned”
I don’t think this sentence belongs in the introduction, though maybe in the main article. Motivation for abuses and crimes (or even understanding of perpetrators of the repercussions of their actions) is a complex topic in itself and this sentence is clumsy and not inherent to introducing a basic outline of the topic. 88.104.102.175 (talk) 14:09, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction II 

message: Remove from a principle environment in which C-PTSD develops over "Undue weight" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources_and_undue_weight
Canadian residential school system is only one of a large number of similar government-sanctioned environments where survivors will risk developing C-PTSD  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.147.85.176 (talk) 09:15, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propose remove canadian boarding schools 

message: Largest C-PTSD event in modern History.
Discuss appropriateness of including Mandated Pandemic Lockdown induced C-PTSD in this page...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.42.69.55 (talk) 21:11, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You'd need a reference, not merely an opinion. And for some people it might be CPTSD, and others PTSD and some others none at all. Not everyone reacts the same. KimYunmi (talk) 18:35, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propose adding Pandemic-Lockdowns 

message: Such as EPCACE & DESNOS: There is a slight difference in criteria between both. https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-and-complex-ptsd/complex-ptsd/ 86.14.56.116 (talk) 13:52, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Types of C-PTSD: 

message: Perhaps as a sub-section, or as a type of variant for it. 86.14.56.116 (talk) 13:54, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal: For this C-PTSD Article to be merged into PTSD 

message: Naming for wartime PSD, but I don't understand how the term "somatization" apears in it, I don't agree. And to edd to this, but a different topic, I don't understand why, scientifically, psychology has to be understood as mainly American, I don't believe psychology is what americans understand right now, also you in US has very little knowledge in medicine and this is obvious in your psychological articles. I don't even like the amercain stile of writing, I don't think most of it is correct, in fact I think it is mostly not right, but some terminology still is good, however the quality is getting too low, because of this "claim that psychology is an American discipline". It is not also true that American is contrary to Russian psychology, I've noticed how Medvedevian politicians, administration and "psychologists" rely to American psychology, they also tend to claim that "it cures them medically" this is not true, they seek the closest medician who also reads psychology to "paranormally" and with mental efford cure them, which is beyond....unpolite. Also they use American psychology for dictatorship Russian pupouses.  And not only they, what about even Prince W. whos people would take American psychology to press on Russian communists with Russian psychology? And categorise communists as sick based on these ideas, but US is a federal republic? Yet, in psychology looks like it isn't. It is normal that everyone wants to read psychology and psychological advices, and what this one would find with these tendencies. 
I dont agree that American psychology is entirely pure and without political dictatorship methods, in fact it serves most of the time RUssian politics, it is so very obvious, that it looks offensive, even. Psychologynewartnotice2 (talk) 16:03, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thats very interesting and prevalence in opinion 

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