Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Latter Day Saints)

message: What is the standard for article titles for the church's involvement in a country? Debating whether to keep  Draft:Mormonism in China or rename it back to Draft:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in China AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 03:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been moved to mainspace and renamed to Latter Day Saint movement in China. I guess that's a third possibility? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:00, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: My opinion is that it should only be called "Latter Day Saint movement in China" if it discusses sects of Mormonism aside from LDS. Otherwise, it should be called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in China" to match the other ones. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 21:09, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in (country)  or Mormonism in (country) 

message: Should disambiguation for adherents to the post-1844 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints branch of the Latter Day Saint Movement be changed to use (Latter-day Saint) instead of (Mormon)? (see above talk page section and Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Latter_Day_Saints)#Names_of_people Epachamo (talk) 12:53, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: * Just for clarity, are you in favor of changing it to "(Latter-day Saint)" or "(Latter-day Saints)" with an 's'?  Currently, it is "(Mormon)" singular, but for CoC members, it is ("Latter Day Saints") plural.  Personally, singular makes the most sense to me if it is about a person, and plural if it is about a topic like baptism, but I don't feel strongly about it. Epachamo (talk) 13:47, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

text: * Right now, articles are marked as (Latter Day Saints) for the pre-1844 church (i.e. William Marks (Latter Day Saints)).  Do you feel those should be changed to (Mormon) as well per recognizability?  Right now it is not, presumably as the article says, because they "may be offended by being called Mormon".  I feel like we can't have it both ways, either change it for all who are offended (Latter Day Saint), or change it for all because it is recogizable (Mormon). Epachamo (talk) 17:54, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: *No I don't, because "Mormon" only generally applies to members of the LDS Church and members of Mormon fundamentalist groups. It's not nearly as common when referring to the pre-succession crisis group or (ahem) non-Mormon post-succession groups. I think the only reason non-Mormon Latter Day Saints would be offended is because it would cause confusion with the post-1844 LDS Church. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:05, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: * On the contrary, it is extremely common to refer to the pre-1844 church as Mormon.  I'd be interested in a book that actually makes the distinction, or does not refer to Joseph Smith as a Mormon. All the major histories, "Rough Stone Rolling", "Joseph Smith the Making of a Prophet", and even articles such as 1838 Mormon War fail to make that distinction.  I went through my 50 or so history books on Mormonism and could only find one that made the distinction.  The one I found, "The Book of Mormon's Witness to Its First Readers", was written by an apostle of the Community of Christ, and even he had to clarify that "use of the term Mormon here is a broad reference to the movement founded by Joseph Smith Jr.".  The most common way to refer to members of the pre-1844 movement is without a doubt "Mormon", probably by at least a 10 to 1 margin. Epachamo (talk) 23:19, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: *That's fair. This suggests to me a broader use of "(Mormon)" is appropriate in WP, rather than further restricting its usage. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:14, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

text: * Everything you mentioned also applies to pre-1844, yet we use (Latter Day Saint) for pre-1844.  Joseph Smith and other members of the early church referred to themselves as Mormons.  They are referred to as Mormons in secondary and tertiary sources colloquially and  in scholarly literature.  Members of the pre-1844 church are more recognizably know as Mormons.  I think one or the other should change. Epachamo (talk) 22:54, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: *If this is the case, and I believe it is, maybe we should change them all to "(Mormon)". Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:43, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: * I'd honestly support one or the other.  I think Awilley's solid logic has prevailed on me somewhat. Epachamo (talk) 02:03, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: *Slightly off-topic, but I have re-read all of the naming conventions again, and they are quite intricate and confusing. It's difficult for editors to know when to use "Latter Day Saint movement" vs. "Mormonism", and when to use "Latter Day Saint(s)" vs. "Mormon(s)". Then there are church-specific articles that use different disambiguators. And then there's the issue of a "Latter Day Saint" being different than a "Latter-day Saint". It's highly esoteric and we may be better off just figuring out how most sources deal with these issues and going with it. I'd be inclined to think that "Mormonism" and "Mormon(s)" are dominant, as has been pointed out. This creates a slight problem though if those to whom the name applies object to the terminology commonly used. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:21, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

text: I like it. :) Rogerdpack (talk) 15:59, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC about parenthetical disambiguation of adherents to the Latter Day Saint Movement in "Names of People" section