Talk:Islamic economics

message: As the topic is very vast. And more than ten thousand books has been written on this topic. so more heading should be added.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.30.137.63 (talk) 04:12, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: More Heading should be added

message: The title needs to be capitalized.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.132.214.165 (talk) 15:49, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Punctuation in Title

message: The second sentence of the second paragraph states the following:
It seeks an economic system based on uplifting the deprived masses, a major role for the state in matters such as circulation and equitable distribution of wealth and ensuring participants in the marketplace are rewarded by being exposed to risk and/or liability. (emphasis added)
It seems to make sense to me that participants are rewarded FOR being exposed to risk, not BY being exposed to risk.
Perhaps we should change it??
Meson537 (talk) 09:54, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Quick question on wording

message: I removed the following paragraph:
The modern idea of ecosystem valuation prevalent in such theories as Natural Capitalism is probably ultimately due to traditions that originated there.  There are also parallels between the notions of khalifa and land stewardship.  Some think green economics parallels the economics of Islam, with similar ethical base for society-wide economic decisions.  The terminology Four Pillars of the Green Party seems to echo the Five Pillars of Islam.
The attempt to connect Green politics with Islamic economics seems extremely strained to me. If someone can provide sources indicating that there is really such a connection, rather than this speculation, I have no objection to them rewriting this for inclusion in the article. --Michael Snow 15:46, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Islamic Finance and Green Econ.

message: Somebody reverted my changed claiming they were POV.  The original text was: "Some of these revived traditional micro venture capital and ethical investing frameworks that thrived in medieval times. However, they incorporated many modern techniques and technologies. Some consider the emergence of these economic practices to be part of a revival of Islam and an Islamization of knowledge. Others see them simply as a practical and wise response to problems of global debt and debt slavery."  Words like "simply a practical and wise response" are very POV.  
In an attempt to NPOV it a bit, I removed some of the more laden words and added a new sentence.  The article I linked (which was removed) was hardly critical of Islamic Economics, it did argue however, that Islamic Economics has its genesis in attempts to create a sense of ethnic identity for Muslims in India, rather than because of concerns about ethics or religion.  This seems like a sane addition, and is fully sourced and reputable.  Please see the link , and tell me why it was removed, and why the current text is NPOV...
--Goodoldpolonius2 01:58, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: Sorry Goodoldpolonius2, I wasn't looking well enough and I did revert too much, your last sentence and link has a place.  Notes on what I hope you'll see as a respectable compromise.  Sophistication isn't POV, most economic systems are relatively sophsiticated and I also think practical is fine because they are seen by many who support them as a practical response to debt problems and ethicism in the banking world.  I shouldn't have removed your sentence so I only added that prepositional phrase reflecting that it is referring to the 20th century... since there were really early attempts (like instituted in Medina in 630...) gren 04:50, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good, thanks for being helpful.  --Goodoldpolonius2 04:55, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry about my premature revert and all :( that wasn't very nice of me. gren 05:15, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goodoldpolonius2 and Me 

message: 07:10, 27 August 2005 Free them (rv - prank edit?) (→Islamic law)  
Islamic law advises against charging interest on loans for it can lead people to a life of servitude.
I believe this to be true can I have help with it? Political hack 16:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, firstly... I don't believe a US law such as that has any place in the Islam article.  Secondly you have to source what you put in articles, what you believe is not so important.  If you can find a source and show how it's relevant then maybe something of what you want might be added.  But, I think this fits more into Islamic economics articles... hah, I read what you wrote incorrectly the first time... however the US law is irrelevant and I don't think it really belongs on this already over-crowded page. gren グレン 17:18, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Gren is right. Indeed, in the 7th century, there was no such law, neither in Islamic law nor in American law. Basically, charging interest on loans is forbidden in Islamic law because it is simply considered as "opportunistic".   Cheers -- Svest 17:24, August 27, 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up ™
Can I use the words "advises against" instead of "forbidden"? Because 
millions of Muslim and me are charging or paying interest on loans. In 
7th century and through out recorded time there were and  are today
"opportunistic" interest charging laws. Is it fair to say today 
under Islamic law that the 
Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 (had a 30% interest rate cap removed form the 
bill) is a "opportunistic" law?
The Act contains a compulsory adult education program to forcibly 
teach people to pay there interest charging loans. Can a Muslim on 
religious grounds refuse to go to a compulsory adult education class that 
forcibly teaches about paying interest charging loans that is "forbidden" 
under Islamic law? Political hack 04:57, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

text: If you are planning to convert to Islam and then argue that you don't have to attend the program because it's haram (forbidden) -- that's not sincere, and in the current political climate, I don't think it would work anyway. Zora 05:40, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can I have help with this? 

message: Would suggest this page be called Islamic economic jurisprudence instead. Specifically what I'm driving at: there's no need to use the -al form just to be inline with Islamic political jurisprudence, etc. "Economic" itself is already an adjective, and has a different meaning than "economical" (which these days has basically degenerated into a fancy word for "cheap"). Similar change for the Fiqh infobox too. cab 19:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is no objection to this I will be bold and move the page. cab 06:11, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economical 

message: I merged the list which used to be on its own. See the talk page and its old AfD for more information. Like others who commented on it, I think the list is a bad idea unless it can be shown that the people's faith affects their business practices, for instance if someone explicitly says, "As a practicing Muslim I feel I should follow certain guidelines when making business arrangements." Otherwise the list is endless--there are millions of Muslim businessmen. At the very least they should be important enough to have their own articles, which is why I'm putting all red-link names here.
* Shamil Khakimov, publisher
* Abu Ahmed Fokyoo, CEO of National Bank of Australia
* Ryan Darvish Real Estate Developer
* Ayhan Hakimoglu, armaments 
* Nemir Kirdar, venture capital
* Rashid A. Chaudhry, personal care products
* Yusef Haroon, consulting and managerial services
* Ali Nawaz khan
* Ahujan Chakkeri,investment,India
* Haitham Alfuqahaa CEO LUNA Industries
* Fahrudin Radoncic,famous Bosnian juournalist and businessman
* Yusuf Hameed, Indian Pharmacutical Giant
Tocharianne 18:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Muslim businesspeople 

message: I added a short section on business method patents related to Sharia compliance of financial services.  The number is admittedly small, but I thought it might be of interest to the readers.  I have no financial interest in any of the inventions.--Nowa 21:18, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Business Method Patents

message: Under a conventional interest based loan it is possible to "call" the loan if the interest rate drops and the borrower finds that he can find cheaper financing (i.e. pays off the entire loan before the end of its term, thus paying less interest). However, there is no way to call a loan issued by an Islamic bank. Thus, while the borrower from an Islamic bank is protected against interest rate increases, the borrower cannot benefit from interest rate drops.
Isn't this a redundant statement, because borrowers from Islamic Bank aren't subject to interest rate fluctuations anyway? --RawEgg1 01:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Calling Loans and Interest

message: Anon 61.5.134.68 added a large bit of text (18 paragraphs) to the history of Islamic economic jurisprudence section, that seem to be taken from an essay somewhere. It's all very interesting, but contains a lot of un-encylopedic opinions, e.g.:
:Islam made a distinction between the economic system and economic science i.e. it views them as two separate issues. This is because there is a fundamental difference between the method of production of goods and services (economic science) from the manner of their distribution (economic system). 
...with no citations, nor references to Sunna or Quran. Consequently I deleted it. --BoogaLouie 17:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History section

message: Shouldn't much of the new text, such as Early Muslim commerce, be in Islamic economics in the world article? rather than Islamic economic jurisprudence?  --BoogaLouie (talk) 01:12, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Point taken. I've moved the new text to Islamic economics in the world instead. Jagged 85 (talk) 00:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jagged 85's new additions

message: re: Early Muslim economic thought , Ibn Khaldun , etc.  
To what extent were Ibn Khaldun ideas based on jurisprudence rather than his study of society? If they are based on the latter and not the former, then maybe we need an article on Muslim economic thought to join this article and Islamic economics in the world. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:46, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jagged 85's new additions and creating a new article

message: There are some 20 odd cites of Nomani and Rahnema in Property section. We need discussion of who they speak for. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: POV tag added because of unduewieght given to Nomani and Rahnema 

message: Someone contributed the following: "...Islamic law on economic issues was/is not "economics" in the sense of a systematic study of production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. An example of the traditionalist ulama approach to economic issues is Imam Khomeini's work Tawzih al-masa'il where the term `economy` does not appear and where the chapter on selling and buying (Kharid o forush) comes after the one on pilgrimage."
The problem with this statement is that economics was never meant to be addressed in the Tawdih of Imam Khumayni, or the Tawdih of any marj`a of Shia Islam. We Shia Muslims follow a marj`a for rulings concerning Islamic practise in issues ranging from daily worship to food to marriage to lost and found objects. When any Shia Islamic scholar reaches the rank of a marj`a, he publishes his own set of Islamic rulings in a text called the Tawdih al Masa'il. Ayatullah Sistani's tawdih is caled "Al Masa;il al Muntakhabah;" the English translation is known simply as "Islamic Laws."
These simple manuals of religious jurisprudence were never intended to cover topics as heavy as economic systems. Certain Shia Islamic scholars who have attained a igher level of knowledge of mundane subjects such as economics, the chemical processes of food production, genetic engineering, etc. usually publish books that focus on these topics. Ayatullah Shahid (Martyr) Sadr published texts about economic issues, most notably "Iqtisaduna" ("Our Economics"). Imam Khumayni focused on mystical aspects of Islamic worship, Islamic etiquettes, and the study of hadith (Prophetic narrations).
PinkWorld (talk) 01:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Understanding Basic Islamic Texts 

message: The Holy See has recently suggested that Western countries attempt to adapt Islamic finance to Western needs. Whether it is a christianization or not, it has not happened yet, although it is indeed a current and notable debate on the topic.  ADM (talk) 13:41, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Christianization of Islamic finance

message: I removed the interest section as there didn't seem to be an entire subsection of material salvagable. "It is reported that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) cursed those who pay interest, those who receive it, those who write a contract based on it, and those who witness such a contract."  I did notice some substantial text in the previous editor's contributions but presumably they were removed for a reason and I don't know anything about the topic to be confident in restoring it. .froth. (talk) 03:26, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  banking interest section 

message: I know this is an incredibly emotional issue for many and don't envy the maintainer but I would like to see more content regarding the success (or failure) of the approach based on facts and free from emotional bias.  The fact that %20 of the world pop is muslim and they account for %5 of the worlds GDP how does this relate to this religious approach to economics (ie directly applicable, other factors besides religion involved etc).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.56.25.30 (talk) 20:36, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  mention of success or failure of approach 

message: Zakaat is The compulsory state levy at prescribed rates on the annual net savings after meeting all kinds of liabilities and expenditures.
Unused and un-invested surplus (al-‘afw), is however, is to be surrendered to, and to be collected by, the state of Islam, which guarantees security of means and employment on a world basis to all. These measures have been enacted to finance the welfare programme of the state to eradicate and banish poverty, ignorance and all kinds of maladies from the world. 
Md. Nasireddin Ghani (talk) 18:30, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Zakat

message: Just a heads up, I deleted a highly POV (and ungrammatical) paragraph about some self-published book on Islamic economics by Iqbal Tahir. Unfortunately I cannot link to the book directly, as Lulu is blacklisted, but you can easily find it on Google.
I would need to see some pretty convincing secondary sources to believe that this was an important new thread in Islamic economic thought deserving of inclusion in an encyclopedia article. (The book apparently shows, among other things, "how one can structure an economy such that unlimited amounts of wealth can be created, poverty eliminated and house prices kept from a constant boom and bust cycle.") Stuffisthings (talk) 13:31, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed Iqbal Tahir book 

message: Banisadr's book is called Eqtesad-e Towhidi, and this story paraphrases/translates that title as "The Economics of Divine Harmony."  My understanding, non-expert though I am, is that Towhidi refers to the oneness of God.  So why is "The Economics of Monotheism" need a better translation here?  Harmony requires more than one musician. --Christofurio (talk) 03:58, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation of an Islamic Theological Term

message: "There are similarities between Islamic economics and leftist or socialist economic policies. Islamic jurists have argued that privatization of the origin of oil, gas, and other fire-producing fuels, agricultural land, and water is forbidden. “
''
No citations. No evidence presented for this statement. Seems like someone with an agenda to me.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.66.106.71 (talk) 13:19, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Private property is explicitly protected in Islam….this article needs cleaned up badly 

message: "the "taxing of certain goods, such as harvest, with an eye to allocating these taxes to expenditures that are also explicitly defined, such as aid to the needy.”” ……..What the…? This is not factual and makes no sense. It is written with quotes with no citation. It makes Zakat sound like a sales tax. It’s actually a 2.5% annual tax on a Muslim’s surplus wealth that goes to the poor and needy. This whole article needs redone.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.66.106.71 (talk) 13:26, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worst definition of Zakat I’ve ever read 

message: To reduce the gap between the rich and the poor, Islam encourages trade, first cite given is Quran 4:29. 
<BR>What does 4:29 say?
<BR>O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only [in lawful] business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves [or one another]. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.
<BR>i.e. nothing about encouraging trade. nothing about inequality. 
Other cite is "International Business Success in a Strange Cultural Environment" By Mamarinta P. Mababaya p. 203
This is Islamic jurisprudence???
I defy anyone to find something in Islamic jurisprudence that says that encouraging trade will reduce inequality. Find it in polemics by 20th century Islamist authors? No doubt. Quran, Hadith or jurisprudence? highly unlikely. 
This is just one example of unencyclopedic, unsubstantiated stuff in the last paragraph of the lede.--BoogaLouie (talk) 21:53, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: An update. The article title has been changed to Islamic Economics and non-jurisprudence sources are not out of place. So maybe "International Business Success in a Strange Cultural Environment"  is a source for arguing that islam reduces the gap between the rich and the poor. Control F search of the first 15 pages available online finds no hits for "rich", "poor", "poverty", "equality". --23:59, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tags added  

message: There is an enormous amount of text in this article that is Islamic Economic History or Islamic Economic speculation but not Islamic_economic_jurisprudence. No one has replied to complaints on this page of the crappiness of the article so I am going to start deleting. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:20, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Major deletions

message: A scholar in this field belongs in the article about the main subject. TYelliot | Talk  | Contribs 10:24, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, but I think Islamic Banking (which is very, very similar to Islamic Finance and where Islamic Finance redirects to)  would be best.  --BoogaLouie (talk) 00:21, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

text: merged with Islamic Banking and Finance --BoogaLouie (talk) 23:43, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Islamic Finance Scholar]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Dr. Hasan has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and rewrote portions of the text of the Islamic economics article in the comment below.  He organized his additions based on the headings that existing in the article. Wikipedians working on this article may find his additions helpful:
We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.
Dr. Cabrales has published scholarly research which seems to be relevant to this Wikipedia article:
*Reference 1 : Hasan, Zubair, 2010. "Islamic Finance:Sructure-objective mismatch and its consequences," MPRA Paper 21536, University Library of Munich, Germany.
*Reference 2 : Hasan, Zubair, 2011. "Diminishing balance model for Islamic home finance: Final version," MPRA Paper 32766, University Library of Munich, Germany.
*Reference 3 : Hasan, Zubair, 2012. "Incentive-compatible sukukmusharkah for private sector funding: Comment," MPRA Paper 41873, University Library of Munich, Germany.
*Reference 4 : Hasan, Zubair, 2012. "Excel formula and Islamic norms for home financing," MPRA Paper 42835, University Library of Munich, Germany.
*Reference 5 : Hasan, Zubair, 2011. "Islamic house financing:current models and a proposal from social perspective," MPRA Paper 27919, University Library of Munich, Germany.
*Reference 6 : Hasan, Zubair, 2011. "Riba in La-riba contracts:where to turn in Islamic home financing?," MPRA Paper 34386, University Library of Munich, Germany.
*Reference 7 : Hasan, Zubair, 2012. "Mortgage contracts in Islamic home finance: Musharakah Mutanaqisah program vs. Zubair diminishing balance model," MPRA Paper 39067, University Library of Munich, Germany.
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thread_title:  Dr. Hasan's comment on this article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: That is completely stupid and racist to list business according to the religion criteria. Wikipedia becomes SS?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:8B4A:86E0:D048:6705:49E1:FDF8 (talk) 14:08, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shocking, very shocking 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Wikipedia has historically been more critical of of a lot of things more than others, is it not obvious this should be one of them, 2001:448A:1082:3380:D152:3C1:3030:2376 (talk) 14:55, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  How wikipedia should treat this 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Aqd' and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 24#Aqd' until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.   -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 08:46, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Aqd'" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: student be away of ladies they will sually contibubtes allot to carry over although they are going to pass through you
@saddddik 102.88.35.97 (talk) 06:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philosophy