Talk:Winchester Model 1887/1901

message: The Winchester 1887 isn't exactly common, and it made pretty notable appearances in Terminator and Ghost Rider. There's no reason to delete it. By the way, why'd you leave the Terminator 2 appearance but delete everything else? 75.17.118.62 21:16, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about originally, but I removed it because none of the appearances mentioned have any affect whatsoever on the notability of the firearm per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Firearms#Pop_culture. For example, even though Arnold carried one in T2, most people didn't know what the gun was, the movie certainly didn't say. Arthurrh 21:16, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree- the Lever Action shotgun used by Schwarzenegger in the film is notable because it's so unusual. The appearances in Ghost Rider and The Mummy Returns aren't notable- it's just a shotgun that someone happened to have in the armoury- but in T2 it's a focal piece of equipment- Schwarzenegger was posing with it for the Movie Poster and all the Promotional Material, for smeg's sake-  and notable for that and it's unusualness. Before T2 came out, I didn't even know they made Lever-Action shotguns. Therefore, the M1887/1901 shotgun's notability is extraordinarily enhanced by it's appearance in T2, IMHO- in fact, this should be as plain as James Bond and the Walther PPK or Dirty Harry and the .44 Magnum. If the M1887/1901 hadn't been in T2, it would probably be one of the most obscure shotguns ever designed or manufactured. As it is, people recognise "That lever-action shotgun that Arnie had in T2", even if they don't know that it's Winchester Model 1901- they're going to be confused if they come across this article, think "That looks like the shotgun from T2, but it doesn't mention it in the article". As I've said before, the Pop Culture guidelines were introduced to stop Anime fans from including every. single. piece of obscure anime in which someone had a Mauser Broomhandle, or people adding lists with things like "A character in Randomfilm can be seen holding a Tokarev TT-33 in the scene when Something Interesting happens". It wasn't intended to create a situation in which we all pretend that firearms don't appear in movies or in popular culture, which is what we're veering dangerously close to at the moment, IMHO. --Commander Zulu 12:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No one is saying that firearms don't appear in movies. They're just saying that the appearance of a gun in a movie generally has no effect whatsover on the gun. For example in this case, it could just have well have been a Marlin lever-shotgun, and it wouldn't have made any difference. It's coincidental. If someone wants to know what shotgun Arnie used in a film, they'd do well to look at an article about the film, not randomly sift through shotgun articles hoping to find the correct one. It's very apropo to the film article, but only trivia to the firearm article. Per WP:TRIVIA "Trivia sections should be avoided, but if they must exist, they should in most cases be considered temporary, until a better method of presentation can be determined."  And also take a look at Wikipedia:Handling_trivia#Connective trivia which suggests the info belongs in the film article, but not the firearm article. Arthurrh 03:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

text: We've been through this discussion before over and over again and the end result is always the same.  The bar is set really high for inclusion of a fictional reference in a REAL FIREARM article.  This is all the more true when stupid details such as how big Arnold's hands are seem to get included. Who, reading this article, cares how big the Terminator's hands are?  What does that have to do with the gun?  To butcher a line from a movie, "This ain't no Sharps rifle and you ain't no Quigley." The concensus still stands, leave it out.--Asams10 16:39, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree.  Does not belong.  —Thernlund (Talk | Contribs) 18:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

text: It may be notable from the movie's perspective, but it has nothing notable to add to a discussion about the gun other than trivia. If someone was asking me technical info about the firearm, it's definitely not something I mentioned. It didn't increase sales or even interest in lever-action shotguns. I fail to see how it belongs at all. Again, per the policy, it can't simply be notable, it has to have increased the notability of the firearm. Arthurrh 03:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it may not be suitable for inclusion in the article but that does not mean that people don't want to be informed about this cool and obviously modded gun. If you folks have good info on Arnie's shotgun put it here in the discussion page so all the interested will have access to it without having to read about it in the actual Wiki article. Just my 2 cents. 68.153.29.23 (talk) 02:19, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Why purge the trivia list?

message: I've re-written the article and added an image, as it seemed long overdue for a clean-up. There's surprisingly little information on these shotguns in any of my reference books or on the net though, so thorough cites and references might have to wait a bit until someone can come up with something. --Commander Zulu 13:08, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Another Re-write

message: I know there's this, there's the Mossberg bolt-actions, but what about the Mc-255 shotgun and MTs255 shotguns? They are repeating shotguns which are neither pump-actions nor semi-automatics (and therefore legal), much like the M1887 and the Mossberg bolt guns, so should they be mentioned? CeeWhy2 09:49, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The revolving shotguns are illegal under NSW legislation, as I understand it. They're not available for sale here anyway- I'd never even heard of them until I read the linked articles. If you want a repeating 12ga shotgun here in Australia, and you aren't a farmer, your options are a Mossberg Bolt-Action or a Winchester 1887.--Commander Zulu 10:45, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What about Queensland, though? Do you know anything about their laws in relation to weapons such as this? I looked at the NSW legislation  and I noticed that it mentioned revolving longarms specifically, but the Queensland legislation  does not. I don't think revolving longarms are outlawed in Queensland like they are in New South Wales. CeeWhy2 11:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

text: AFAIK revolving longarms aren't specifically banned in QLD, but as I said before you can't buy the revolving shotguns in Australia anyway, as I don't believe they're approved for import by Customs- which means you can't legally own one here. --Commander Zulu 13:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm looking at my latest issue of Australian Shooter here, and there's this full-page advert for this Queensland gun shop called Cleaver Firearms - they're advertising their stock of Uberti revolving carbines. Maybe revolving longarms ARE approved for import... CeeWhy2 08:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never said they weren't, but there are various safety tests that a revolving shotgun would have to pass before Customs would clear it for import. It's done on a firearm by firearm basis, so whilst a Uberti revolving carbine might have been OKd for import (and clearly they have been), that doesn't automatically mean a revolving shotgun would also be approved. FWIW, I have not yet seen revolving shotguns advertised for sale in Australia, and I can't see it happening anytime soon, as there's no market for them, IMHO. --Commander Zulu 12:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for clearing that up. CeeWhy2 12:49, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The ONLY legal repeating shotgun under Aussie law?

message: In the movie Terminator 2, Arnold Schwarzenegger's character, the T-800 uses a modified Winchester Model 1887 so that it can be "flip-cocked" in multiple scenes of the film.  Because of the cultural significance of the character and the movie, i think this should be mentioned in the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.74.219.84 (talk) 06:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: See the section of this talk page titled 'why purge the trivia list'. That addition doesn't conform to the project guidelines for Wikipedia firearm articles. ROG5728 (talk) 20:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Terminator

message: For the infobox at least, preference is given to images of the real thing, especially if the images are practically identical (save for the Mare's Leg in your (very good) render). However, I believe that your image definitely does have a place on the article; I would suggest putting it under the infobox, like on SIG Sauer P227. I think it would look nicer if the receivers where lined up, but I have no idea how much or how little work that would require.
I also slightly object to you straight-up reverting my edit, as I changed more than just the image; changing just the image to your version, or starting a discussion on here, would have been better (in my opinion). Thanks, RadiculousJ (talk) 19:40, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox image

message: This page seems to get decent traffic from gamers who aren't aware of what the pop culture section is for. I know there is discussion in the above sections, but I'm making a new section here in hopes people will notice this before adding to the article. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Firearms#Pop_culture. While the 1887 may be a popular weapon within certain gaming communities, not everyone is a gamer. For example, when someone thinks of the Terminator, chances are they'll imagine him riding a motorcycle with his cut down 1887. Games like Modern Warfare 2 or Fallout New Vegas aren't nearly as well known and for many, the weapon is just another shotgun to use. --Grimwol (talk) 00:49, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Use in video games/movies