Talk:Abortion/First paragraph/Archive 4

message: I know it's particularly difficult with a very controversial subject on which many of us have such strong views, but could everyone please try to restrict comments to those that are directly related to how we can best improve the article for the future, and not what we should or shouldn't have done in the past. When pages get very badly cluttered, it's hard for those who were involved to stay involved unless they can give it undivided attention. That's why it took me so long to vote. I didn't want to vote until i had examined the talk pages properly — and with so much jumping around from one talk page to another, and so many posts that said more than they needed to, it just got too time consuming, while I was doing other things on Wikipedia and in real life.
I know it's hard, particularly for the person who hasn't had the last word, but whichever person it is, could you consider walking away now? Not from the article, but from the discussion of who did what. Saying whatever you want to say won't won't make this talk page better; it will make it worse. AnnH ♫ 00:41, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry.--Andrew c 00:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please 

message: *RoyBoy 800 17:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Support paragraph 1

message: *RoyBoy 800 17:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Support paragraph 2

message: *AvB ÷ talk 12:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose paragraph 2

message: Maybe you could post this at the bottom of the talk page? And maybe its time to archive the first poll. All that said, I believe a number of concerns have been cleared up with my proposal, and I do not see why my proposal couldn't be used for the time being, until an even better first paragraph comes along. The main objections come from people who do not understand or otherwise want to ignore the cited medical sources. I know I am being a total jerk by writting off people's concerns, but I can see no justification for ignoring the medical definition. The most valid concern was from Ann, who thought that the common definition should go first. Because she initially supported my proposal, I would hope she would support its temporary approval as an improvement on the current state of affair (and until an even better version is agreed upon). --Andrew c 18:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I simply don't want a repeat of the last poll. I'm getting seriously fed up and will start getting aggressive if something doesn't happen. Becoming pro-choice partisan is suddenly appealing to me if it means things get done. I'll contact Ann. - RoyBoy 800 05:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Would you consider switching the definitions? Can you see it as an improvement? - RoyBoy 800 05:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

text: As I've also argued in the earlier comments section, I propose we go ahead with this first paragraph and discuss improvements later on. It's a wiki, nothing's being carved in granite here. I think relatively minor changes can wait. A desire (including my own) to implement several of them at once seems to me to be one of the factors that have been thwarting change for some time now. Just my two cents. AvB ÷ talk 12:27, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments 5

message: I discovered the term "intra-uterine fetal death" (or IUFD). Apparently a medical term for the cessation of life in a fetus is "death".  ____G_o_o_d____ 08:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ackoz 09:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have not seen you posting here before. Perhaps you are not familiar that some editors think it is not "medical" to describe fetal demise as "death".  That is the only reason I have posted this.  Quite frankly, I always knew it was medically accurate - my discovery is of the term IUFD.  You may not realize it, but not many of us have ever studied gynecology! Finally, why the snottiness? I am trying to ensure we have an accurate article that editors are proud of. Providing sources helps that along. ____G_o_o_d____ 15:11, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Death of the fetus

message: An abortion is the premature termination of a human or mammalian pregnancy resulting in or due to the death of an embryo or fetus. Abortion can occur spontaneously (miscarriage) or be effected through chemical, surgical, or other means.
There have been various methods of inducing an abortion throughout the centuries. In the 20th century, the ethics and morality of abortion became the subject of intense political debate in many areas of the world.
AvB ÷ talk 21:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it. KillerChihuahua?!? 12:45, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Another proposal (intended as a temporary solution pending the 1st para discussion)

message: As I recall, we recently had a discussion about when pregnancy began. There has been a contentious editor warring here, who has nonetheless provided a number of sources which were claimed in the edit summary as being for the after implantation definition of pregnancy as regards abortion. One was. The others either do not specify or were not sources at all for the paragraph (such as a list of obstetrics related classes offered at a university.) 
:After implantation
* 
:Def of abortion w/out specifying implantation
* 
* 
KillerChihuahua?!? 13:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: After implantation