Talk:I'm Not There

message: This article currently boasts a very non-encyclopedic writing style.  Lines like "Bob Dylan will provide all the non-original music for the film of course", for instance.  Thus, the overhaul.--65.175.223.122 04:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The same way what's her face played a man in that 90s movie. -24.92.43.153 19:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unencyclopedic

message: I wonder if this is going to be a segmented movie? Why? I went to wikipedia and found that the actors playing Bob Dylan will also play other characters.-
User:M.Naff 9:23 pm, 5 April 2007
* I think. it#s a so called "montage", but no crude one. The connection between the different segments is visable by real archimedic points or done by music.Therefore the story is chained up in an intelligent way, not pure action and logic. In a case is another case and a dream in, you may open one and slide to the other and go back to the end.Paradoxal dramaturgie, which depends on dylans music.
'The hours' for example deals with a theme, women liberation in changing times, and there is the author in or out, and the narrative perspective developes through the episodes. The dylan story transformes by the number 6! Colour or none, nature or drugs in, framing
a person, a figure, an idol by asking for his substance, reveals not only the surface, but the loss in popularity.--Hum-ri (talk) 09:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Segmented?

message: Huh? Is that right? Why would she be playing a man? -albrozdude 06:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blanchett as dylan? 

message: That's such a strange word to use about a person and I wonder what is really meant. Can anyone justify its use? Alpheus (talk) 10:13, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: see Pop icon--Mongreilf (talk) 16:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps I'm just stuck in my ways, but I find "icon" overused (what's the qualification? Or is everyone an icon for 15 minutes?) not to mention annoying. When referring to, say, 20th century celebrities, I think no more than 10 or 20 people should be labeled "icons" (with 20 being a very generous maximum). -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 14:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bob Dylan 'iconic'

message: Many songs were featured in the film but are not on the soundtrack.  Does anyone have a list of these songs?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.82.140 (talk) 00:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Songs not on the soundtrack 

message: this article is missing any info on when the movie might be released to a wider audience. Is such information out yet?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.117.59.17 (talk) 05:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: release dates

message: Anyone game enough to attempt this? I saw the film last night, but think I'll have to watch it a second time to get a better understanding. phocks (talk) 02:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot Summary? 

message: Could someone more knowledgable than me move the soundtrack to its own page.  I tried and the page got deleted saying I didn't move the page history etc and something about five authors, blah blah blah.  Whatever.  The thing is most soundtracks have their own page.  Would someone move this it its own page please?  berenlazarus.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berenlazarus (talk • contribs) 23:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the proposal was move. Uncontroversial, didn't need discussion. No reason was for provided for the original move in the first place and this is the obvious place for it. --kingboyk (talk) 15:54, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Move Soundtrack to its own page

message: that song playing in the background while cate blanchett is writing a song on the typewriter... what is it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.67.101 (talk) 21:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  song during writing scene? 

message: I daresay that Heath Ledger is not most famous for his portrayal of Jack Rollins but for his role in "Brokeback Mountain" which brought him an Oscar nomination. Or am I wrong here? --190.21.31.146 (talk) 06:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heath Ledger 

message: It's obvious Charlotte Gainsbourg is a character portraying Suze Rotolo or at least partially a portrayal because of the shots with them walking in the street with Heath Ledger dressed in the EXACT same way that Dylan was on the cover of The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan and the two of them are holding each other the same way as well. Throw in the fact that the character portrayed is also an artist, no denying it. I think it should be added as a mix of the two women.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cdop (talk • contribs) 05:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsure about the cast 

message: Watching the film, I gather that the Sonny character represents Bob Neuwirth. This is merely conjecture, but I thought perhaps someone else would know for certain. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 14:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonny character 

message: * To me this film appears not only like a trashy biographie, it leads to the degree of contamination, idols suffer from.
They are famous and fullfill their imagies, like dylan does for the beat generation and they disturbe.
Or they destroy oneself. Haynes shows the open wound, he doesn't glorify anyone and there remains a question:
Does freedom mean indipendence?--Hum-ri (talk) 10:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  About idols and leading figures 

message: The new synopsis has loads and loads of original research and unfounded analysis. Lots of subjective points are made about what certain scenes "imply", and conclusions are made that have never been suggested before by reviewers, critics, or the script itself. 
Examples: 
"Mr. Jones later gets a year book from Jude Quinn's high school years and his pictures looks somewhat similar to the persona of Jack Rollins, implying that all the personas are the same character,"
"Jude and Allen Ginsberg are later seen at the foot of a crucifix, "talking to Christ". This indicates the Dylan characters' discovery of Christianity, as did Dylan's persona of Jack Rollins/Pastor John."
"Billy then has flashbacks of his past life of the Robbie Clark persona, when his marriage failed."
"Billy takes off his mask and reveals himself, and Garrett recognizes him. This indicates that Garrett is a reincarnation of Keenan Jones."
All of this is just a single interpretation, and many of the assertions which are taken as fact here are simply ridiculous. Especially the last one.
190.41.231.150 (talk) 21:43, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The plot section (I've renamed it) violates the no original research policy and really needs to be cleaned up. 96T (talk) 22:43, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "Complete Synopsis"

message: I count the word "later" used no less than 22 times(!) in the synopsis, while I'd argue that not a single one of them is necessary. Any other opinions? --77.185.9.208 (talk) 01:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repetitive synopsis 

message: I've started to re-write this article and add references. It's a deliberately playful biography of Dylan with fantasy elements. (Dylan was never an outlaw holed up in his cabin. This is a character based on  images from The Basement Tapes and the fact that Dylan played a role in Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid.) The only statement the film makes (in caption at the beginning) is: "Inspired by the music and the many lives of Bob Dylan". Charlotte Gainsbourg plays Claire, a character who resembles Suze Rotolo (in the film, Ledger & Gainsbourg run romantically though the streets of New York, recreating the album cover photo of Dylan & Rotolo on The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan) but she is later trapped in a disintegrating marriage and acrimonious divorce from the Ledger character, resembling Dylan's first wife Sara. Just to emphasise we should not be literal-minded about this film, neither Suze Rotolo nor Sara Dylan were French, as the Gainsbourg character, Claire, is. And she's married to Robbie Clark, who is an actor!
This article must be consistent with WP:BLP policies. To casually write that a fictional character "represents" someone spells legal & editorial trouble. Mick gold (talk) 10:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Having re-written this article, and provided more detailed references, I'm removing warning about copy editing and lack of references. If anyone disagrees, please comment here. Mick gold (talk) 12:01, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean Up 

message: I'm guessing the famously reticent Dylan hasn't commented on the film his life inspired. But if he has, please put it in the article. Thanks!
:Dylan has made no comment. Haynes has talked about how Dylan was given DVD and he's awaiting feedback. But Dylan has said nothing. Mick gold (talk) 16:57, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In the Rolling Stone interview, September 2012, Dylan has given his (favorable) opinion about the film; I've added that to the article. Mick gold (talk) 13:32, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dylan's response? 

message: From "Plot:"
Heath Ledger plays Robbie Clark, an actor who is starring in a biopic about the life of Jack Rollins (the folk singer played by Christian Bale) entitled Grain of Sand. (The film's title is a reference to the Dylan song "Every Grain of Sand"). The film relates how Robbie first met his wife Claire....
"The film" in bold refers to I'm Not There, but it at first appeared to me to be referring to Grain of Sand. I could fix this if I were clever enough to figure out a good way to make the distinction. :-P Help please! -AndromedaRoach (talk) 13:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing part 

message: I've removed this section from article:
:=== Philosophical themes ===
:Seven different characters play different types or moments of Dylan. This broken-to-pieces Dylan creates a notion of complex and multi-layered personality, what indeed helps the film to overcome the ordinary superficial representation of a human. A ‘normal’ film represents a human in certain time at a certain space hence cannot really penetrate into a person’s true identity. By deconstructing a successive single narrative this film produces seven of them. As a result this film is not trapped into a time and space issue; rather it creates an image of a whole, a life. Each narrative stands for each character and represents a different type of Dylan. The narratives are not inter-related, that is to say, each character stands on its own, and does not interact with another. And so, Haynes does not impose the notion that one of them is “more” Dylan then the other. In fact it seems, to the innocent viewer, that none of them is really Dylan: none of the characters hold the same name, the past or the future of Dylan, and so the actual Bob Dylan’s identity seems to be abolished in the film. (Ref )
:The film, which portrays different portions of Bob Dylan’s life creates a distinct notion of identity, that which can be considered as fragmented yet successive. The concept of identity fragmentation has its roots in the post-modern era of thinking. Alasdair Macintyre a known post-modernist, claims in his essay “A Story Telling Animal” that the human life is a successive sequence of events, stories. Every story has a telos (an end) , and a past. The identity formation will take place in the correlative necessity of continuity of narrative: “personal identity presupposed by the unity of the character which the unity of narrative requires” . Basically, personal identity is consecutive events which shape one’s own life and character. One can behold different characteristics; have a fragmented self, which is unified by one’s narrative.(Ref )
This is a long section, written in the form of a philosophical essay rather than an encyclopedic article. The second para refers to a book by Alasdair MacIntyre. The para is claiming that MacIntryre's work is relevant to this film, but MacIntyre's book contains no reference to I'm Not There. (This is not surprising because the book was published in 2003 before the film I'm Not There was made.) This is contrary to Wikipedia policy of no original research, which states: "Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources."
The first paragraph seems to paraphrase a work by Omer Shamir. No clue is given as to where this work was published. It is questionable whether Omer Shamir can be regarded as an important critical voice, or whether his work could be described as a reliable source. Mick gold (talk) 20:29, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philosophical themes? 

message: Character with no independent notability outside a single film should be discussed in the film's article. --Animalparty! (talk) 17:00, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. The character article shouldn't have been created; no notability for any of the characters. Lapadite (talk) 09:00, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually a WP:AFD would be better - see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jack Rollins (Character). If this is merged into the article for the film it would be WP:PLOTBLOAT. MarnetteD|Talk 10:55, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  To clarify, Jude Quinn and Jack Rollins (Character) should be simply redirected to this article, not merged verbatim. The fact that two characters have recently created articles heavy with essay-like tone suggests perhaps a film studies assignment by an instructor not familiar with Wikipedia content guidelines. Everyone has an opinion, but we need not include every film critic's view, nor scour the literature for every essay or scholarly analysis, which would give WP:UNDUE weight to minor elements. --Animalparty! (talk) 18:07, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with  and . Jude Quinn article should be deleted. It's written like a sophomoric essay and adds nothing of substance. As others say, to include it in I'm Not There would add WP:PLOTBLOAT and WP:UNDUE weight to article. Should I go ahead and do the deletion/re-direction? Mick gold (talk) 21:10, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Jude Quinn]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: From the intro: "intercutting the storylines of seven different Dylan-inspired characters". Aren't there six of them? Where does seven come from? Kumagoro-42 (talk) 03:02, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Six or seven?