Talk:The Master and Margarita

message: The name of the valet obviously causes embarrassment. The two translations I've seen use "Faggot" (Glenny) and "Fagott" (Pevear and Volokhonsky). So I'd use one or the other. If we take "bassoon" as the underlying idea, then we need to use Fagotto. Since the slang meaning of "faggot" (like the slang meaning of "gay") has driven all sense from the normal use of the word, I'm going to plump for Fagotto for our article for the time being. At least there's a chance that monoglot English speakers who are dictionary or music savvy will get the reference.
:In Russian, there are no word "faggot" meaning "gay". Russian word фагот means 1) bassoon, 2) hanged man (it's obsolete meaning). The second meaning is probably the meaning Bulgakov's used. MBH (talk) 23:10, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling of Fagotto 

message: (new talk always at the bottom, please. mikka (t) 20:07, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The bitterest ironies of the book emerge if we consider Shelley's remark in the Defence of Poetry that "poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world".
The issue is not "bitter irony", but your loose and vaguely substantiated phrasing. I see no  irony at all that Bulgakov confirms Shelley's observation. Or what are you saying with this phrase? 
One wise man told me that main difference between the essay and the report: the goal of an essay is to show how smart you are, the goal of the report is to make others smarter. Assuming that I am an ignorant in the area (otherwise I would use specialized texts, rather than "bulgakov for Dummies"), please make me learn something quickly, without wordy developments, periods, associations, parallels, which are always 95% POV. 
I suggest you to read the Inverted pyramid article and then explain what constitues the irony in the novel. In 12 words, please, first.  mikka (t) 20:07, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bitter irony 

message: I reedited the page to make the section about the graffiti more neutral (though now it is probably leaning more the other way). I        cccc cvehemently disagree that the graffiti was defacing anything.  The first level was more just "crap" really, but walking up the stairs there were some great paintings. and yes, paintings. i went back a 3rd time with a friend and was crushed when i saw the walls were all white.  but on that topic, when i was there, there were workers in apartment #50, and with my limited russian confidence at the time i got something out of them about a museum, but they very well could have just been lying so there wasn't a riot, or fed up with people asking them.  Has anybody been there recently? (or since I was in apr 2003?)  i'd love to know what has happened to the place, whether there is a museum or if there is more horrib          le graffiti defacing the walls.  Jowe 03:39, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grafitti & Defacement? 

message: Should be mentioned.
Xx236 09:30, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The new Russian tv series 

message: The article completely misses a central theme of the book. M & M can be seen as a satire on the prevailing atheism and materialism of the intellectual and political elite of modern Soviet. Bulgakov himself had an interest in the paranormal, and in M & M the fantastic and occult wins over the "realistic" - a sweep at the intellectual climate. Helge Waaler 132.150.8.82 (talk) 15:53, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Themes and Imagery 

message: I suggest that this paragraph, if it belongs anywhere, should be in the article Mikhail Bulgakov.--Smerus 12:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bulgakov's flat

message: Is it really necdesary to mention Abadonna among the main characters? Even Frida (the woman who killed her baby) seems more important to my eyes!--Hun2de Correct me! 08:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abadonna 

message: A minor thing, but I'm a bit puzzled by this part in "Themes and Imagery"
jazz is a favourite target, ambivalent like so much else in the book in the fascination and revulsion with which it is presented
A favourite target? Does jazz deserve to be even mentioned in the discussion? As far as I remember, it's mentioned once in the whole book, and very briefly. 
On the other hand, Bulgakov seems to give a lot of importance to the satire of the literary elite of his times, which could perhaps deserve at least a mention in the "Themes and Imagery" part.
:It's so minor a reference as to be insignificant. As far as music is concerned, Bulgakov mentions Berlioz (also the name of a character in the novel), Strauss, Stravinsky (another character), etc. He also makes frequent allusions to literature that inspired his novel (namely Faust, and all related literature, particularly Goethe's). The whole article needs reorganization - it's fairly disjointed at the moment. Fuzzform (talk) 21:18, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Jazz and satire

message: A line from Chapter 18 that has become a common Russian phrase. Should be included somewhere. Fuzzform (talk) 21:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Second grade fresh" 

message: In the plot summary there is this phrase: as its cupolas and windows burn in the setting sun of Easter Saturday.
I have just finished the book, but am not sure the novel is set during Easter time, because in the first page there is this: There was an oddness about that terrible day in May which is worth recording. What is the reference for "Easter"? --Schickaneder (talk) 07:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This may be due to the difference between computing the dates of Easter between western Christian traditions (Catholic, Protestant) and Eastern Orthodox Church. I am not familair with the details but I do know that in the Eastern Orthodox tradition the date of Easter Sunday floats within a few weeks of the calendar year and sometimes happens in early May (see for example ). Nsk92 (talk) 14:34, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this is right, but the point is: is there something in the novel suggesting that the history is set during Easter time? Or is it only a supposition? I think, from my readings on the web, that there is not consensus about this "fact" --Schickaneder (talk) 18:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  It does actually. The whole Satan's Ball is an allusion to black easter. It cannot be a "fact", because it is after all fiction. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 23:15, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Easter? 

message: I think the references need updating or corrections, in concrete these don't work:
ref 1 (ny-times): requires login
ref 4 (yahoo news): "cannot be located..." -> as usual yahoo links don't work after a while, please make a direct link
ref 7 (kislovodsk): just goes to a local website for the russian city kislovodsk, giving the weather and all other things, not the referred quote
ref 13 (andrew lloyd): "Sorry, that page could not be found..."
Yes, referring to something as dynamical as internet is almost impossible. 
Wikimedia foundations should compile a bot to search for likely failed links (things as: "error", "page not found", are easy hints)
--85.146.199.125 (talk) 23:52, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  review references 

message: I replaced "psikhushka" by "psychiatric clinic" on the account of the former term not appearing anywhere in the text. I preserved the link though, which is to punitive psychiatry: I believe this is a fitting reference. melikamp (talk) 17:28, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not even remotely. Punitive psychiatry in USSR appeared about the end of 1970's. This novel is set in the 1920's. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 23:16, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  psikhushka 

message: Is much taken into account in the article of the interpretation of Alfred Barkov of the novel? For instance, a major point of his is that the Master is Maxim Gorky and that Margarita is Gorky's love interest. That it is the character "Homeless" that is actually Bulgakov. I believe this may require a major re-reading of the novel - but this shouldn't be surprising since many state that there is still no adequate English translation. Those who read Russian can also reference the works in Russian of Alfred Barkov. One website in English is [http://www.megaone.com/bulgakov/index.html Mikhail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita,  
the true content]
I myself find the interprtations of Barkov to make sense, as he presents them, but my lack of Russian skills hinders me in making judgments about them... But I think the website(s) should be included in the article as External Links and his books as Further Reading. --Sp3lly (talk) 18:52, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Work (Interpretation) of Alfred Barkov 

message: I am referring to the following statement from the main article:
A "foreign professor" who is "in Moscow to present a performance of 'black magic' and then expose its machinations". The exposure (as one could guess) never occurs, instead Woland exposes the greed and bourgeois behaviour of the spectators themselves.
While the statement is correct it somewhat misses the obviously intended two-fold pun by Woland or Koroviev. In Russian Woland proposes to run "a black magic session with subsequent exposure" (the actual word used is not "session" but "séance" however in Russian its meaning is rather broad). In Russian "subsequent exposure" in such statement would normally mean "subsequent exposure [of black magic machinations]", correct. Woland instead exposed some secret sins of Soviet bureaucrats present in the public, that's also correct. The point that is missed here (and is often missed by native readers as well) is that the whole session's scandalous wrap-up was marked by a literal exposure of the members of public attracted by garments giveaway.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.240.108 (talk) 02:16, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exposure 

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thread_title: File:Bulgakovmuseum.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: The Master and Margarita is anything but a one-dimensional satire. That's why I changed the over-simplification in the opening para. Macdonald-ross (talk) 16:01, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and can others have a look at whether ref #1 is relevant to the sentence in question. Macdonald-ross (talk) 16:10, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro 

message: I want to expand this article by writing separate ones on the main characters and add a few items into the navbox (geography, etc). Do you think it can be of any interest? Le Grand Bleu (talk) 23:11, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't comment here on what you might do elsewhere. New pages must satisfy the notability criteria. Here, I can see we need more details on Natasha, a character who is quite significant in the second part of the book. Navboxes for books are only about the books as books. Not about plotlines or places and characters in the book. Cheers, Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:53, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, thanks. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 15:56, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further expansion 

message: It seems quite wrong to offer sources in a foreign language. It violates the sense of "By citing sources for Wikipedia content, you enable users to verify that the information given is supported by reliable sources", and "When using inline citations, it is important to maintain text–source integrity. The point of an inline citation is to allow readers and other editors to check that the material is sourced". How can we check anything if we can't read the source?
I think all those references in Russian should be taken out. There are plenty of critical sources in English. Macdonald-ross (talk) 20:03, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sometimes a similar argument is made against non-online sources that require a trip to the library or bookstore. Non-English sources are clearly allowed, and it is beyond the scope of this article's talkpage to have a debate that belongs on Wikipedia talk:Verifiability. There is nothing to keep English references being added as well, if you happen to have access to English books. Or if you reasonably suspect someone is pulling your leg, you can request corroboration at Wikipedia:Translators available. Sparafucil (talk) 21:25, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, with respect, I don't think it is the same thing as an English non-online source, because when I get to the book or volume, then I can read it, whereas with Russian I can't read it!Yes, if the issue was important enough, there are ways to get it read by someone else. But time is a great factor on WP, which is not our employer. A person's WP editing time is precious, and so, in effect, a reference in Chinese (say) is absolutely useless for most purposes. Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:45, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Remember: English wikipedia is not for monolingual English speakers. It is for every person on the planet with knowledge of English. If not in intention, in reality. So, as non-English references and sources do no harm to English-only-speaking population, but may be beneficial to all others (majority), those should be encouraged rather than frowned upon. Be they Chineze or Lithuanian.BirgittaMTh (talk) 08:47, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources in foreign languages 

message: What is the basis for the quality standards flag on the page? I don't see a discussion here explaining it, and failing that the flag should be removed. In any event, I don't think it is justified. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:47, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag complaint 

message: The Meridian Classic paperback edition in the description on the back says "The time is 1920 The place is Moscow" although there is reference to air travel that would indicate that it is more likely the 30s so that might be a mistake on their part.  In any event, I am about 2/3rds through it and there is no reference to Stalin's ascendency. Other than the master's difficulty getting published most of the references to the regime, like the foreign currency and whatnot appear to be played for dark laughs.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.28.23.254 (talk) 22:37, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  20s vs 30s 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Why is the Estonian translation significant enough to be mentioned in the history section?
"The text, as published in the magazine Moskva, was swiftly translated into Estonian, remaining for decades the only printed in book form edition of the novel in Soviet Union, published in 1968.[7]"
Is it because the Russian versions weren't available in the form of a novel? This needs to be made more clear.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:32, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Estonian translation 

message: * "My favorite novel--it's just the greatest explosion of imagination, craziness, satire, humor, and heart." --Daniel Radcliffe
*  - Anita Rani
* https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://lib.ru/BULGAKOW/*
* https://web.archive.org/web/19990823113141/http://www.lib.ru:80/BULGAKOW/
* https://web.archive.org/web/20010507164912/http://lib.ru/BULGAKOW/master.txt
* https://web.archive.org/web/20010610062834/http://lib.ru/BULGAKOW/master_engl.txt
* https://web.archive.org/web/20020211172900/http://lib.ru/BULGAKOW/master97_engl.txt
* https://web.archive.org/web/20000117022024/http://www.charliestone.co.nz/illustrations/mm/page1.html
* http://www.loc.gov/rr/european/bulgaklc.html
* "The Bacchae and The Master and Margarita," Elementa, Vol. 3, No. 2 (1996), 129-42
* "Bulgakov's Master and Margarita: Masking the Supernatural and the Secret Police," Russian Language Journal, Vol. 38, Nos. 129-30 (1984), 115-131
* https://cr.middlebury.edu/public/russian/Bulgakov/public_html/biblioweb.html
* https://cr.middlebury.edu/public/russian/Bulgakov/public_html/index.html
* https://cr.middlebury.edu/public/russian/Bulgakov/public_html/Engeditions.html
* https://cr.middlebury.edu/Bulgakov/PUBLIC_HTML/index.html
* translated by Mirra Ginsburg, New York: Grove Press, 1967, 1995. London: Picador, 1989.
* translated by Michael Glenny, London: Harvill, 1967; New York: Harper & Row, 1967; with introduction by Simon Franklin, New York: Knopf, 1992; London: Everyman's Library, 1992.
* translated by Diana Burgin and Katherine O'Connor, annotations and afterword by Ellendea Proffer, Ann Arbor: Ardis, 1993, 1995.
* translated by Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky, London: Penguin, 1997; London: Folio Society, 2010 with Introduction by Orlando Figes. 
* translated by Michael Karpelson, Lulu Press, 2006; Wordsworth Classics 2011.
* translated by Hugh Aplin, One World Classics, 2008.
* https://www.worldcat.org/title/master-margarita/oclc/270927691
* https://www.worldcat.org/title/master-and-margarita/oclc/1027857483
* https://www.worldcat.org/title/master-and-margarita/oclc/795596670
* https://www.worldcat.org/title/master-and-margarita/oclc/804657655
* http://www.masterandmargarita.org/
* https://www.masterandmargarita.eu/en/06links/index.html
* http://www.masterandmargarita.org/
* http://www.masterandmargarita.ru/
* https://russia.tv/video/show/brand_id/16625/episode_id/397179/video_id/397179/viewtype/picture/
::2601:646:200:120:C0B3:FD0E:F5C8:B992 (talk) 16:09, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Between the Covers'' '''BBC TWO'''