Talk:Victory disease

message: Somebody should wedge in a mention to fight the last war.
:He did, under "established patterns of fighting".  But fight the last war is a good topic.  Why not expand on it? -- J M Rice 19:29, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Fight the last war

message: Unless one argues that there is no such thing as "victory disease" or that the term is meaningless, then an article on same is perfectly proper.  If you disagree with elements of the article on the basis of NPOV, then by all means edit it - that's what Wiki is for!  You can make what you consider a biased or opinionated statement more "neutral" without arguing with it or deleting it, simply by inserting qualifiers like "it has been asserted" or changing "is" to "may be" or "was" to "may have been," etc.
By the way, my background is history, and I see nothing wrong with any of the examples.  If the author - of either the original article or later addition (like me) - uses language or style that suggests a non-NPOV, then by all means go in and help him out!
Wikipedia is supposed to be a collaborative effort! 
J M Rice 19:29, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  ok, I made a kind of minor change like this
Changing the wording to be more neutral is a small improvement, but all contributors should be on the lookout for weasel words.  It is far better to have a factual reference of who said something, and when and where it was said.  CosineKitty (talk) 01:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perfectly proper article 

message: I feel a certain "daddy" relationship to the article, having wrote the original.  But ignoring partisanship, the article still needs more non-American examples.  As an American myself, I of course thought of a few (plus a few non-American ones); others added a few.  But Americans have no monopoly on Victory Disease.  Something in that back of my fuzzy head says the Japanese coined the term, but I can find no reference.  Any takers?
dino 18:55, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty sure they did -- okay with promoting it to the top of the examples list? Willhsmit 23:39, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: More collaboration , non-American examples

message: When I first wrote the examples, way back in the days of yore, I tried to make them chronological.  It avoids charges of bias.
dino 02:24, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Order of examples

message: Couldn't the stuff in the first paragraph be converted to prose? Borisblue 14:11, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ugly lists

message: The first paragraph?  Makes sense to me as a bulleted list.  What I question is the long list of examples—while they certainly make sense, I have debated giving a few egregious examples like Napoleon's Invasion of Russia, and spinning most into a separate article.
Ideas?  Takers?  I wrote the original, way back, and still feel a "daddy" relationship, but don't control everything.  The original list was short.
dino 03:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The first paragraph?

message: Someone keeps adding,
:* The United States' catastrophically-botched attempts to "export democracy" to Afghanistan and Iraq during the presidential tenure of G.W. Bush.
This is tiring.  I frankly agree, but it lacks historical perspective, and wikipedia should not be the forum for anyone's private rants.
dino 22:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: additions lacking in historical perspective

message: As in Battle of Midway, the main reason for their defeat was the US being able to crack their code and thus know all their moves. As it was the Japanese plan was good enough to crush the outnumbered Americans. Is it an appropriate example of 'Victory disease'? Obscurans 13:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Japan example

message: I read in a book about the Crimean War that part of the reason the British army was unprepared for the war was that the victory at Waterloo had led to a high level of complacency among the officer class, preventing the implementation of much-needed reforms in, for example, the logistical service. Would this be a suitable example to use?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.65.197.157 (talk) 17:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: British Army, 1815 to 1853?

message: If, in fact, the folly of "A Bridge Too Far" brought more loss of life than D-Day - if it is "The Great Mistake" of not taking the Scheldt Estuary - would this not qualify as a major example ?
Take Montgomery insisting that the advisor to Gen Eisenhower be excluded from their meeting - or is this 'great man' and 'hero' folly ?  Hubris?
The Dutch people perceived the Germans as defeated and celebrated days before the battle leveled those very towns.
A serious of easy victories and discounting the enemy as "fleeing" and not "re-grouping" - fleeing faster than the victor could advance.
G. Robert Shiplett 14:18, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operation Market Garden 

message: Even if victory disease deserves an article, isn't the list of instances of victory disease just the original research of Wikipedians?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.224.49.68 (talk) 13:43, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research? 

message: I've merged the "History" article back into this one and converted it into a redirect. The daughter article should never have been split off from this one, since the material in the intervening years made the two articles almost completely duplicative, and there is, basically, no need for two separate articles on this one topic. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:51, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Merged [[History of victory disease]] back into this article

message: Might want to add that Sun Tsu's Art of War says to 'respect the enemy' for this reason.
71.139.178.219 (talk) 17:54, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sun Tsu 

message: I see not a single reference of a source in the list, so it is not clear at all who claims those are cases of "victory disease". Reliable sources should be added or the respective claims be removed according to the rule of "no original research". --2.240.176.113 (talk) 12:47, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. While I was very tempted to simply strip out the whole section, I decided against such drastic actions. Instead, I've tagged the section as being unreferenced, and removed a few items which were more obvious OR. - BilCat (talk) 00:55, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  List unsourced 

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thread_title:  External links modified