Talk:Spectre (DC Comics character)

message: Spectre is related to Raguel god of vengeance in books of magic.  He is one of the Archangels.
--69.255.16.162 21:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Books of Magic

message: I'm thinking of adding a list of The Spectre's powers because I feel "divine mystical enhancements granting near omnipotent abilities" is too vague.  From what I've seen and read, The Spectre's powers include intangiblity, flight, invisibility, the ability to inhabit and animate inanimate objects, the ability to sense the intentions of people in the place where they plan to carry those intentions out, the ability to absorb magic, the ability to change size, the ability to transform matter, knowledge of many secrets of the universe and its inhabitants, and, sometimes, the power to glimpse into the future.  Did I miss anything?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Evernut (talk • contribs) 
I like the current definition. It's intentionaly vague, which seems to fit into his range of abilities. And he can do a few more things, such as travel interdimensionally (trips to Earth-2 to Earth-1), split into multiple, concurrent  versions of himself, access dimensions adjacent to the afterlife (but cannot go to his eternal reward yet), superhuman strength, prevent planets from colliding, fire very powerful energy (or force) bolts, etc ... 
In his case, it would be meaningful to list his limitations, such as:
* Complience to "The Presence"
* Cannot create life from nothingness (has to use the "Ring of Life" and, even then, must ask for permission)
* Vulnerable to the Spear of Destiny
** He used to be forced to bond w/ a person in order to operate on the Earth's plane. How he managed to operate w/o bonding w/ a human during the "Day of Vengence" storyline has yet to be explained.
AlGorup 15:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Recent issues such as his fear of the emotional entities and his defeats at the hands of libra, and the spirit king.  As well as his inability to affect beings without souls should be addressed.  These show he is not omnipotent, omniscience or omnipresent.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.173.226.229 (talk) 19:31, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sadly, your work won't last long at all. See the lower thread, "'Most powerful being'" for the explanation. --Tbrittreid (talk) 19:55, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Told you so. --Tbrittreid (talk) 23:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Spectre's powers 

message: According to Kelly Martin: "A cover image should only be used to illustrate an article about that issue. Do not use a full cover image to illustrate an article about a character." 
—Lesfer (talk/@) 03:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That doesn't mean Kelly is right, though. Hiding The wikipedian meme 20:22, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And here I am to apologize for assuming Kelly's statement was definitive. My mistake, sorry guys. DrBat, if you think the JSA cover image fits as a better illustration for the SHB than the current one, feel free to change it back. Regards and once again, sorry for my mistake. —Lesfer (talk/@) 20:54, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: Needs references to move up a grade. Hiding Talk 09:19, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment

message: This article is in desperate need of Publication history. The lack is very apparent in the 1960's paragraph of the Silver Age section, when it's not even mentioned where the character was revived. CovenantD 07:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Publication history 

message: However, though some have accordingly speculated that this run of the Spectre took place on Earth-1, Justice League of American#220 states that the Spectre had bonded with the counterparts of Jim Corrigan on alternate Earths, and the Justice League of American Index#3 entry for JLA#83 further supports this reasoning. Not only that, but the reference to "are you really Superman?" can be taken as a wry remark about the number of times Clark Kent has been "mistakenly" suspected of being Superman, a situation that was even the subject of jokes on Earth-1's late night talk shows, pace Action Comics#474, published in 1977.
Enda80 (talk) 01:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Earth-Prime

message: This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject.  If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class.  The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject.  Comics-awb (talk) 17:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

message: As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/Assessment#Requesting_an_assessment and list the article. Hiding T  14:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: C-Class rated for Comics Project

message: There's been an edit war with the following two statements in Powers and abilities going back and forth:
The Spectre is one of the most powerful known beings in the DC Universe.... (the version favored by myself and some others)
The Spectre is the most powerful known being in.... (the version favored by some editors, mostly if not entirely anonymous IPs)
To repeat and use the space here to expand/clarify my original edit summary to this: "Zor (More Fun Comics #s 55 & 57, 1940) and Shaithan (Showcase #61, 1966)—to name just two off the top of my head—each fought the Spectre to a standstill, so categorically stating that he is the most powerful being in the DC Universe, i.e. with no peers, is inaccurate. Please leave this alone. --Tbrittreid (talk) 23:39, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: For the record, an IP has now changed this to, "...the most powerful superhero in the DC Universe." Fair enough! --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:54, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In MFC #s 55 & 57 Zor is explicitly depicted as more powerful than the Spectre. Furthermore, Spec's powers were reduced for the last two years of that run, admittedly raised to a previously unseen level in Showcase #60 (1966), reduced again in Spectre (1967 series) #s 8–10, brought back up somewhat but not to 1966 level in Adventure Comics #s 431–440, even higher in JLA shortly thereafter, plus in appearances in the briefly revived Showcase, in DC Comics Presents and in Swamp Thing Annual #2, then reduced in his 1987-launched book (Doug Moench writing), and back up to near 1966 level in John Ostrander's version. They varied, not simply increased. --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:30, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In preparation for the "third party opinion" I am about to request, I need to point out the following facts. One other person, an unregistered IP who therefore has no genuine talk page of his own and declines to discuss the matter here, or even to make an edit summary in his editing, is the other person involved, but is consequently not reflected here. The IP number is, as of this writing, 70.115.56.65, but has in the past month (specifically, since November 6) been 70.115.57.219, 70.115.56.27 and maybe 72.178.148.160. On his most recent edit, a significant amouint of material that contradicted his preferred position about the powers (only) vastly increasing over the years was deleted. --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:37, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's add 71.41.26.154, 70.115.57.5 and 72.27.60.39 to the list, to keep the record up to date. --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:21, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

text:  71.252.138.143 here. As I said when I edited the page before, the fact that he requires the Ring of Life to perform feats beyond what he is normally capable of contradicts the assertion that he is the most powerful being to exist. I am not familiar with what exactly the RoL is, not having read most of Spectre's books, but assuming it is the White Lantern Ring that appeared at the end of the Blackest Night event, does this not suggest that the Entity, embodiment of all life is more powerful than Spectre? U8t9034g (talk) 21:02, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Gee, thanks for nothing. Didn't you see my sources here against the other editor's version? And what about "increased" versus "varied," where again I gave sources? What do you want, no "Powers and abilities" section at all? --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:57, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Most powerful being" 

message: Anonymous IP 114.74.143.242 is relentless in misrepresenting the situation in Justice League of America #220's end scene. With the Justice Society member–Spectre in the scene, Doctor Fate produces, in his words, a "Jim Corrigan body...purely of Earth One. His Spectre persona is trapped within." [emphasis added] That absolutely is two Spectres as well as two Corrigans. Now ever since reading Cary Burkett's 1977 article in The Amazing World of DC Comics (cited in the article), I've liked the theory of there being only one Spectre who travelled to various Earths as much as any fan, but this scene is in contradiction to it. And in any event, your wanting to keep that out doesn't justify removing the statement that Corrigan's referring to Earl Crawford as "mild-mannered reporter" is inconsistent with the offered theory that the Michael Fleisher/Jim Aparo/Adventure Comics run takes place on Earth One, where the existence of that famous tagline as such is not plausible. I'll rephrase things a bit to clarify the lack of a direct connection. --Tbrittreid (talk) 21:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not misrepresenting what happened in Justice Leage America 220. Have you read the issue? I ask because what you stated above does not happen and is a misrepresentation of the issue. In the issue it is Sargon the Sorcerer who brings Jim Corrigans body, not Doctor Fate. Here is what He says: "Right now I've one last expatriate from earth two to show you...One I brought to this rooftop for safe keeping. You know Him as the Spectre, Flash. One who walks the corridors of many a cosmos, struck down by the Thunderbolt because this particular Jim Corrigan body, at least is purely of earth one* His Spectre persona is traped within this mortal shell." When He says this Powergirl, Flash, Huntress and Red Tornado are there and there is no JSA Spectre in the scene. So it is you who is minrepresenting the situation in JLA 220.  Here is a link tht shows the issue. http://www.htmlcomics.com/Book/html.asp?Series_Name=Justice%20League%20of%20America%20(V1)&Book_No=220&Page_Number=8&Alpha=J&Lookup= Later in the issue the Spectre appears and says "Once the spell on Jim Corrigan was lifted, it took me but a monment to bring the man of steel here." This clearly shows that the Spectre at the end was the one that was traped in Jim Corrigan at the start of the issue and as other stories show, the Spectre used both earth 1 and earth 2 Jim Corrigan. So like I said asked before, have you read ht issue because what you claimed happened in the comic is not there. Also the Spectre never appears with Jim Corrigan when His Spectre persona in traped within so you claim that it shows two Spectres does not happen in the issue. Also when Sargon the Sorcerer says: "this particular Jim Corrigan body, at least is purely of earth one, there is a note at the lower left hand corner of the box which says "See upcoming JSA miniseries by Thomas and Ordway for details. In the America vs the Justice Society miniseries, issue two, after the Spectre leaves the court room in the boxs it says " Then it seems as if a different universe opens up beneath the feet of the one who has been Jim Corrigan on at least two earths and the Spectre is seen no more among men." So this shows while there is one Spectre he has used both Jim Corrigan from earth 1 and earth 2 and that there is not many Spectres. As for what Jim Corrigan said to Earl Crawford, it is reading too much into it. That one line does not make there more then one Spectre. If you want to show there is more then one Spectre you would have to show which comic shows this, say it or where DC  has said there was more then one Spectre. As I pinted out in WHOS WHO it only mentions one Spectre and never say there was more then one. And since there has not been shown a comic with two Spectres appear in , it is a huge streach to say that Jim's statment to Ed means that there is more then one Spectre. We could just as well say Jim is breaking the forth wall. Also in  Adventure comics 437, when the Spectre is melting the bombs, it says "There are heroes who fight crime with magic Rings or with the powers they have brought with them from distant planets. But all these pale into insignificance besides the astral awesomeness of the Spectre." That is a reference to Green Lantern and Superman, showing that they existed, so this can be earth one. Also to add more evidence to this is Illustrated index: All Star Comics. In the entry for the Spectre it says this: Soon afterwards the Spectre's essense was dissipated for a time, after he stopped earth 1 and earth 2 from colliding. He eventually reformed his spirit body and found a new host in the Jim Corrigan of earth 1. His time with the Jorunal of Judgement seemed to have done him little good for  the Spectre was soon slaughtering criminals in imaginative ways at every turn". So this once again show that there was one Spectre who used both bodies of Jim Corrigan and it also shows that it was the JSA Spectre who was killing people in Adventure coimics.114.74.145.234 (talk) 04:43, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: O.K., it was Sargon instead of Fate and the Spectre who appeared in the story was the one trapped inside the Earth One Corrigan. But, Sargon's saying, "His Spectre persona is trapped within" instead of "The Spectre is..." indicates that this Spectre is not the JSA member the Earth Two natives there all know (and the fact that I got the quote right should tell you that I have read the comic, but it has admittedly been some years ago; all I still possess physically was a note I made about the Spectre, a personal favorite of mine). But never mind that. The point under discussion in that part of the article is not how many Spectres there are, but just where in the DC Multiverse the Adventure/Fleisher–Aparo Spectre stories took place. Jim's referring to Earl not just as Clark Kent but as "mild mannered reporter" does work against Earth One or any Earth where Superman is "real" and Clark Kent is his secret civilian identity; that was what was meant by that sentence and it definitely could have been clearer. I freely admit that my bringing up JLA #220 here in the first place (and I also freely admit that it was me who did so) was irrelevant, and as erroneous as my memory of that story's specifics. Mistakes for which I apologize, as I do for my misrepresentation of your actions/motives, a failure to "assume good faith" on my part. The fact remains that the subject at hand is the location of that short run of Spectre stories, not how many Spectres there may or may not have been; indeed, the Burkett article that first theorized it was Earth Prime was dedicated to the contention of only one Spectre. I'll wait for a reply from you here before I alter the passage accordingly. --Tbrittreid (talk) 21:31, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think Sargon saying that shows that it was not the Spectre everyone knew. In the story itself there is no indication that anyone believes that the Spectre is an earth 1 version instead of the Spectre from the JSA. And as I pointed out before, in the comic there was a box when Sargon was taking saying that a miniseries by Thomas would explain this and the America vs JS does say that the Spectre had been Jim Corrigan on at least to earths. But yes the issue at hand is the Fleisher–Aparo Spectre stories and where they took place. Like I said before, I think it is reading too much into Jim calling Earl '"clark kent mild manner reporter meaning that it takes place on earh prime or a earth where Superman is not real. As I brought up before in Adventure comics 437, when the Spectre is melting the bombs, it says "There are heroes who fight crime with magic Rings or with the powers they have brought with them from distant planets. But all these pale into insignificance besides the astral awesomeness of the Spectre." That is a reference to Green Lantern and Superman, showing that they existed on this earth so this can be earth one. Also Illustrated index: All Star Comics #1 it creadits the JSA Spectre with the killings in Adventure comics. So by looking at these two things it shows that the stories happened on earth 1. I think saying that what Jim said to Earl shows that it is on a world which Superman is not real is reading too much into it as other writers (like Illustrated index: All Star Comics) never came to that conclusion and I have neve seen where DC said that it took place on earth Prime or a earth where Superman is not real. If you think what Jim said to Earl should be in the article then I think what is said in Adventure Comics 437 and Illustrated index: All Star Comics #1 should be in it as well.114.74.252.161 (talk) 03:23, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The source cited in the article, Cary Burkett's essay in the DC-published Amazing World of DC Comics, allows no alternative interpretation of the references to Crawford, and also qualifies as someplace "where DC said it took place on Earth Prime or an Earth where Superman is not real." Your quote from #437 (and again I apologize, for having missed your first citing of it) is in one of the captions, which throughout this series are written in a completely objective perspective and this one could easily take the entire DC Multiverse into account. As for this index you mention (I've never heard of it myself, but I'm not doubting its existence) crediting the Adventure killings to the JSA Spectre, so does Burkett. As I said before, his article is dedicated to the concept of only one Spectre travelling among various parallel Earths/space-time continuums, and he includes both Earth Two (home of the JSA & birthplace of the Spectre) and Earth Prime (theorized location of these stories). Neither contradicts the interpretation (inescapable, both Burkett and I feel) of "Clark Kent, mild mannered reporter"/"Gee, are you really Superman?" Now that I understand where you were coming from, this has been an interesting discussion. --Tbrittreid (talk) 18:18, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry for the long delay, I have been busy and have not had time to reply to this discussion. Would you be able to post what Cary Burkett said in Amazing World of DC Comics. Did He say that that references to Crawford means that it took place on earth prime or a earth where Superman is not real or does He say that it is likey that it take polace on earth prime or and earth where Superman is not real. If it is the latter then I would say that then DC never did offficaly say that it happened on Earth Prime or an Earth where Superman is not real. As for what I brought up about the one of the captions in Adventures 437 I think it shows that the story takes place on a earth where Superman and Green Lantern exist. Seeing as we have different interpretations about the caption I think it should be in the article and both interpretations for what it means as well. In regards to the index I quoted, I wasn't saying that it disagress with Burkett in that it was the JSA  Spectre that did that killings, but that it places the killings on earth 1. It says "He (Spectre) eventually reformed his spirit body and found a new host in the Jim Corrigan of earth 1. His time with the Jorunal of Judgement seemed to have done him little good for the Spectre was soon slaughtering criminals in imaginative ways at every turn." It seems from reading it, that after the Spectre found a new host in Jim Corrign of earth 1, that was when he started to do the killings. It doesn't say that after the Spectre found a new host in the Jim Corrigan of earth 1 that He went to another earth and slaughtered criminals in imaginative ways at every turn. So I think in the article it should inculde that the Spectre after stoping earth 1 and 2 from colliding went to earth 1, that there is disagreement from things published from as to where the adventure comics stories took place. I will wait for you reply.114.74.156.2 (talk) 17:59, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Cary Burkett in "Speculations on The Spectre!" Amazing World of DC Comics, #16, December 1977, pp.38–41, specifically on p. 41, column 2, first full paragraph, first sentence onwards: "Adventure #435 gives us a clue as to where these exploits take place. In this story everyone seems to know Superman's secret identity is Clark Kent. This eliminates Earths I and II as the location and points to a third earth [sic] ... Earth Prime, where there are no real super-heroes, only comic books which publish 'fictional' accounts of such heroes as Superman, Batman, Flash and others [Boldface usage in the original]." Burkett just doesn't allow that there's any other way of interpreting that scene. There is something else: Despite providing a genuine quote from #437, you do not appear to have read these stories, as there is no Jim Corrigan "host" here, no living flesh-&-blood body thereof, but the Spectre merely pretends that Corrigan is alive, makes himself visible in Jim's appearance (this is quite important in Jim's relationship with heiress Gwen Sterling, and absolutely crucial to the two-part story in #s 439-440). As we both already know, JLA #220 presents a host-body Corrigan of Earth 1, but The Brave and the Bold #75 (December 1967–January 1968) and B&B #199 (June 1983) do as well. B&B #180 (November 1981) is quite unclear as to the Spec/Jim relationship, while B&B #116 (December 1974–January 1975), published during the Adventure run, seems to depict the same situation as in those stories. However, on close examination it appears that Bob Haney wrote it otherwise, and Aparo, regular artist here as well on Adventure, just drew it that way. On pg. 9, panel 1, Corrigan says, "How can I tell [Gotham City Police Commissioner] Gordon The Spectre overdid it, and destroyed the evidence!?" He clearly refers to Spectre as a separate entity beyond his control there, and the three "on stage" transitions could well have been intended by Haney for Spec to be emerging from and returning to Corrigan's body, but editor Murray Boltinoff (or perhaps his assistant, Paul Levitz, who was working in the same capacity for AC editor Joe Orlando simultaneously) told him to draw it to match Spectre's own series. Bottom line: The Adventure run does not involve a host body of Jim Corrigan, inconsistent with Earth 1. --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:25, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

text: I don't know if you've been too busy to reply (again) or do indeed concede by silence as I had incorrectly assumed before, but I've found two more comments about where the Adventure/Fleisher-Aparo Spectre stories take place, both in the comic's letter columns. First, in #431 (also with the initial Spectre story), Jim True wrote, "I hear that the Spectre is returning in Adventure #431. Please remember that the Spectre died in JLA a few years ago [the entire letter as published]." The editorial reply, also in full: "I'll give you your choice of the two explanations floating around the office. Writer Mike Fleisher prefers the version that says 'Denny O'Neil killed him and stuck him in that crypt—let him get him out!' A more logical version is that these are adventures that the Spectre was involved in before he was imprisoned." Of course, in JLA #83 O'Neil did get Spectre out of that crypt right there, and then killed him. Both the editor and the writer are clearly unfamiliar with that story's details. Also, Orlando's suggestion isn't actually any more logical, as with Clarice Whitney in the 1940s and Mona Marcy in the 1960s (see here for details about her), there's just no room for Gwen Sterling during Corrigan's past Spectre careers, to say nothing of the New York locale here being incompatible with Cliffland and Gateway City of those two earlier eras. Now on to #434: John Leasun wrote (among other things not really elaborating on this point), "So many changes have been made in the Spectre that the character is very confusing." The editorial reply: "After long and careful thought, we've come up with an explanation for all the Spectre variations: we are now writing about the Earth-One Spectre, not the Earth-Two Spectre who [sic] you're more familiar with." IIRC, Burkett acknowledged and dismissed this statement. Besides, as you and I have agreed, the general consensus at DC seems to be that there has been one Spectre travelling around multiple Earths and (sometimes) possessing the local Corrigan. And like I documented, there's no Jim Corrigan host body in these stories, but there certainly was one on Earth-1 before and after this run. Oh, let me 'fess up for the record: I fully believe that the yellow field on Batman's chest emblem in B&B #75 should be regarded as an artist's error, this is actually the Earth-2 Bats, and that's where the story occurs, hence its flesh-and-blood Corrigan. Note that in that story Batman is making a ceremonial personal appearance in Gotham City's Chinatown as part of the Chinese New Year/Year of the Bat celebration, when something goes unexpectedly wrong; quite consistent with the Earth 2 Bats's "semi-retirement" reported by his adult Robin just a few months earlier in that year's JLA/JSA crossover. --Tbrittreid (talk) 23:19, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  JLA #220 

message: What were the Spectre's powers during the Golden Age of Comics? -13:59, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Golden Age Powers? 

message: It the Spectre short included in the Superman / Shazaom: The Return of Black Adam the same short that was originally included with Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths? --RedKnight (talk) 18:01, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's supposed to be a few minutes longer, but I haven't seen it so I don't know what was added.-5- (talk) 19:04, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Other Media: DC Showcase 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Spectre (character). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100613145927/http://www.mania.com/brave-bold-chill-night-review_article_121793.html to http://www.mania.com/brave-bold-chill-night-review_article_121793.html
*Added archive https://archive.is/20130121093837/http://www.dcindexes.com/indexes/indexes.php?character=58 to http://www.dcindexes.com/indexes/indexes.php?character=58
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:04, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Finding a rogues gallery list of Spectre enemies is quite rare on the internet. I would much appreciate it if someone could aid me in constructing a list of Spectre foes to add to his page. Canadian Lycanthrope (talk) 01:09, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enemies  

message: About the Spectre… other appearances, one is in the Constantine show where he goes to Louisiana, and solves a murder and ghost mystery with Jim Corrigan. 2600:1012:B184:C24E:8D69:969F:F0BB:9CD7 (talk) 22:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don’t forget the Constantine Show 

message: I'm not skilled enough to identify why and where in the code for the page, but "Aztar" and "Various hosts" have been smashed together. Arcsoda (talk) 17:45, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Somethings is wacky with "Alter egos"