Talk:Crowded House

message: The section on the new album states it will be ready in June (it is now out) but more troubling it suggests it would be ready for the band's appearance at the West Coast Blues and Roots Festival in Perth. The Festival actually happened in February so while they may have been able to debut some of the songs, the album was still a few months away from release at that point. Not sure about how to go about making the necessary changes but I thought it should be mentioned here. 119.15.65.1 (talk) 05:49, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intriguer Timing 

message: An IP editor has been changing this article and Saturday Sun to say that Crowded House are a New Zealand band, based on a claim (in the Saturday Sun edit summary) that "they are based in New Zealand, and the frontman is a New Zealander". However, only the singer is from New Zealand - the other members are from  
Australia and the US, and the band formed in Melbourne. As such, I don't think it is right to choose one specific criterion and label the band with one specific nationality, and so I have removed the addition of "New Zealand" from the lead of this article - the article appears to describe the national origins of the band and its members quite adequately. Any comments? -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:38, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: PS: I note that the IP who made the edit is from New Zealand -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:58, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Well, the last.fm and lyricsfreak.com words seem to be a copy of your version of the Wikipedia article after you added "New Zealand" to the lead, so I think we have to discount those (and neither is a reliable source, as both are user-generated). If the band describes themselves as a New Zealand band, I think that would be fine. However, all I can see on their own Myspace page is the words "New Zealand" next to an image of an album cover, and that does not seem to be sufficient to define them as a New Zealand band. Can you provide any unequivocal statements by the band in which they call themselves a New Zealand band, or any reliable third party sources (not blogs, forums, or other sites that can be freely edited by anyone) that describe them as such? -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:44, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and I suggest you omit the anti-Australia rhetoric - that's only going to damage your own arguments, as Wikipedia articles are supposed to be written from a neutral point of view. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:50, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

text: No, I'm not Australian - you can tell that if you'd care to check my User page. Please have a read of WP:AGF and WP:NPA, and try to avoid making personal attacks. Please also try to remember that your personal reasoning is irrelevant - the content of Wikipedia articles should reflect what is said in reliable sources, and not the reasoned opinion of individual editors. I'll be happy for Crowded House to be described as a New Zealand band if you can provide reliable third-party sources that describe them as such -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:08, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Further comment: You say "the only austraian member of the band doesn't even live in australia, he lives in Dublin!". However, I'm not arguing that the band is Australian, I'm just suggesting that it appears to be multi-national - it current has one NZ member (Neil Finn), one Australian (Neil Seymour), and two Americans (Mark Hart and Matt Sherrod) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:34, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Reverted: I have reverted the latest change, which changed the lead to describe Crowded House as "primarily a New Zealand rock group", because that is personal judgment. We could only describe the band like that, especially in the lead, if they were actually described that way by multiple reliable sources. So if anyone wishes to add a specific nationality statement to the lead (or elsewhere in the article) in the light of the multi-national elements of the band's makeup and history, they need to find reliable sources that attest to the band being described that way -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:13, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

text: It's not about being covert, and "As far as I am concerned" is irrelevant - Wikipedia requires references from reliable sources (see WP:RS) in order add information to an article - the personal opinions of editors cannot be used, as that would be original work, which Wikipedia prohibits (see WP:OR). The reply to your email will be interesting, but even that cannot be used as a source for a Wikipedia article - unless Crowded House are publicly referred to as a New Zealand band and that is attested to by reliable sources, we cannot say so in the Wikipedia article. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:55, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: They recorded their first two albums in LA and their third album in Melbourne. It doesn't really matter as lots of bands record albums in different countries. The Police and the Stones recorded albums in Jamaica but it doesn't mean they are Jamaican bands. --Mutley (talk) 10:30, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

text: What I'm suggesting is that, in the absence of any definitive description in reliable sources, we should omit any nationality labels from the leads of the relevant articles (there's another album article that says "Australian", and I think that should be removed too - I'll be happy to do so when we are concluded here). It's too complex for a single label, and so a description in the body of the text saying where they were formed, the nationalities of the members, and where they are currently based (all of which can be supported with reliable sources), is a much better approach. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:55, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

text: No, I can't see a NZ one either, and I agree it's a shame -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:09, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

text: It's a combination of time and money, and my limited supply of both - but both NZ and Oz are high on the list of places I'd like to visit -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:09, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Hi. The IP editor in question has agreed that the band should not be specifically described as a New Zealand band (if not here, then on one of the other Talk pages that this got sidetracked to), and I think we have a reasonable consensus that they should not have a specific nationality label attached to them - statements regarding their origin, current base, and nationalities of the members can be made factually in the article. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:56, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Given that the band formed in Australia, it would be considered an Australian band, especially since the band's original rhythm section was Australian (i.e. Nick and Paul), and we consider anything to be of where it formed, not from where the sum of its parts came from. Having said that, the band themselves claim no allegiance to any particular place, playing most of their gigs in Europe in their current incarnation. It'd be false to claim they're really from NZ, given that only Neil Finn is from there, and for the blip of time Tim and Eddie in the band also. I think "band formed in Australia whose members are from New Zealand, Australia and the United States" summarises it. If you don't want something clunky like that in the lead, don't put anything. --rm 'w avu 08:53, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Amen to that! The first paragraph says it all and in my view shouldn't be changed any more. Formed in AUS, led by someone from NZ, now made up of 1 NZ, 1 AUS and 2 USA. Time would be better spent adding new info (with citations) rather than fighting about nationality. At least no one has tried to claim CH are now American...give it time! Iangurteen (talk) 14:21, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again this problem has arisen with a contributor asserting that this is an "Australian - New Zealand" band. I have reverted this edit. The lead paragraph appears absolutely fine to me. It explains where the band was formed (Melb, Aus) and that it's leader, Neil Finn, is a New Zealander. With the line up now 1xNZ, 1xAus and 2xUSA this is surely adequate. CH are truly a global act! Can I suggest (again) that any proposed changes on this subject are put up for discussion on the talk page first.Thegraciousfew (talk) 17:01, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think part of the problem could be due to people getting Crowded House confused with Split Enz as most of the members of Split Enz are from New Zealand so it may be worth mentioning the next time someone changes the article.--Mutley (talk) 10:25, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Early on, this article tells that the band re-formed in 2006. Should it not then say "are a rock band" and not "were a rock band" in the opening sentence of the article?Vorbee (talk) 21:04, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of past tense

message: How can Crowded House have 2020 as an active year? Sdreich (talk) 23:09, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you,  - FlightTime Phone (open channel) 23:15, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Years active 

message: I've been thinking about the best way we can incorporate nationality into the lead (and indeed, throughout the article). I think the best way to cover both origins would be to replace "Australian / New Zealand band" is to include "Oceanian" or "Australasian", but I'm open to other suggestions. Please discuss (and ping me if you reply). Sean Stephens (talk) 23:06, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Reviving this discussion. I would support going the Bee Gees and omitting nationality altogether, if it weren't for the first source in the article with Neil Finn himself declaring them an Australian band whose songs were largely inspired by Melbourne. I suggest "Australian" since it's an official description from the leader of the band, but add a sourced note explaining the debate around their home country. ToQ100gou (talk) 09:19, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with labelling them Australian primarily based on Neil Finn's description. I'm sure some editors think that it doesn't matter because at this point most of the band's members weren't born in Australia but if somebody born in New Zealand calls the band they formed in Australia Australian, that's enough for me. Ss112 13:19, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly, if the sole New Zealander in the band calls the band formed in Australia, that is two-thirds Australian, 'Australian', and says that many of their songs were inspired by Australia, then that should be enough, though I still think maybe the nationality debate should be mentioned somewhere if there are reliable sources. ToQ100gou (talk) 07:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality compromise