Talk:Murder of Jimmy Farris

message: Whatever we do, let's not delete the original article based on the notability of the "new" Brandon Hein, who sounds like a fine young man in spite of his lack of notoriety.  --CliffC 20:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  All those tags 

message: The article posted here by the 13-year-old "new" Brandon Hein has now been in place for three weeks; I am restoring the original article about the "old" Brandon Hein who is serving life in prison for felony murder, so that the world can hear about his unfortunate situation.  "New" Brandon, if you become notable enough to require your own article (and I hope you do), we will set up a disambiguation page at that time.  --CliffC 19:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restoring the original Brandon Hein article 

message: This starts with the trial, but does not describe, what actually happened.
91.152.107.167 23:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's correct, but I'm working on improving the article and hope to have it done in a week or so.  Meanwhile, what follows is part of it...  --CliffC 04:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: [Crime details from the "SUMMARY OF FACTS AND PROCEEDINGS" in the 29 January, 2001 Court of Appeal findings removed, these are now part of the article] --CliffC 01:50, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What actually happened? 

message: The "Charges" section reads in part:
"Micah Holland, 15, Brandon Hein, 18, and Anthony Miliotti, 17, as well as the actual killer Jason Holland, 18, were charged with burglary, attempted robbery, and murder committed during the course of a burglary and an attempted robbery. Jason was also charged with willful, deliberate, premeditated murder and assault with a deadly weapon."
The last sentence is incorrect in stating that Jason Holland faced a charge that the remaining three defendants didn't. All four defendants were charged with the same five counts. Count 5 was attempted willful, deliberate, premeditated murder of McLoren.
Hein, Miliotti and Micah Holland were found not guilty as to count 5, while Jason was convicted of the lesser crime of assault with a deadly weapon. I suggest a sentence is added so it reads: Micah Holland, 15, Brandon Hein, 18, and Anthony Miliotti, 17, as well as the actual killer Jason Holland, 18, were charged with burglary, attempted robbery, and murder committed during the course of a burglary and an attempted robbery, and attempted willful, deliberate, premeditated murder.
Then under the "Trial" section a sentence could be added so that it reads..."On May 28, 1996 the jury found the four defendants guilty of burglary, attempted robbery, and murder committed during the course of a burglary and an attempted robbery, that is, felony murder. In addition, Jason Holland was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon. The jury also found the allegations of special circumstances to be true, and found the murder, burglary and attempted robbery to be of the first degree.[1] --Harper41 (talk) 18:13, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing out that error and for your thoughtful wording suggestions.  Feel free to be bold in the future whenever you spot something that needs fixing; the encyclopedia needs more like you.  Regards, CliffC (talk) 21:00, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charges 

message: This section reads in part:
The following description of the fight and stabbing is from the "SUMMARY OF FACTS AND PROCEEDINGS" in the January 29, 2001 California Court of Appeal findings.[1] The findings recount the facts accepted as true by the jury. Note that the term "appellants" excludes Christopher Velardo, 17, owner of the pickup truck, who remained in the truck throughout the incident and was tried separately.
I would suggest removing the sentence that reads "The findings recount the facts accepted as true by the jury."
As one of the judges of the 9th Circuit Court noted during the oral arguments in October 2009; a jury is not limited to deciding whether the prosecution is correct, but whether the charges are correct. It's possible the jury could have disbelieved certain aspects of McLoren's testimony, but still believe that that the defendants attempted to rob him. -- Harper41 (talk) 18:19, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, I've removed the sentence.  --CliffC (talk) 03:15, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fistfight and murder