Talk:Nazi concentration camp badge

message: A purple triangle over a yellow one means someone is both a Jew and a Jehovah's Witness? Is that actually possible? -- Kimiko 23:21, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Nazis defined "Jewishness" on the basis of ancestry. If you had a Jewish grandparent, you were a Jew. Didn't matter to them if you were also a Christian. - Nunh-huh 23:26, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

text: Maybe that should be noted somewhere on the page then, that "Jew" means "of Jewish descent" and not necessarily "practicing Judaism". -- Kimiko 23:59, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

text: Who is a Jew? explains it pretty well. Joffeloff 20:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish Jehovah's Witness 

message: What qualified a concentration camp inmate for "special" status? User:DO'Neil|DO'Иeil]] 11:00, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)
:These were inmates appointed by higher-ups for tasks of personal or administrative service: as kapos (originally spelled capo, from the Italian), block-elders, sex slaves, etc. Their qualifications were personal qualities such as skills and character traits suiting them to the task at hand. In some cases political connections may have been involved, but I can't document that at present. Perhaps the page needs explanation on this point? -- Deborahjay (talk) 15:10, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Special inmates 

message: Under special markings .. I'm not clear what "race defiler" actually means ...
--Azkar 15:22, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This generally referred to Aryan women who knowingly had children by a non-Aryan man. - Etoile 17:45, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Could a note be added about the definaition of a race defiler like the Jehovah's Witness/Jew triangle?--Thecosmos 02:29, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

text: I was confused by the phrase "Race Defiler" as well.  The article seemed to suggest that it refered to someone who had mated with a "lesser race".  A description that is more clear would be nice. --207.81.225.190 07:47, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Special Markings 

message: Removed the internal link to "Jasenovac concentration camp marks," which seems to have been removed from the Jasenovac article.
Thecosmos, I'll also include the definition of "race defiler" in the appropriate section.
--Justin.eiler 20:54, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor edit: removed obsolete link 

message: The blue triangle "emigrants" category isn't discussed, but is in the table.  What does it mean?  A2Kafir 01:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps it was Germans who had fled Germany after 1933 (and thus were considered disloyal to Hitler's regime) but had been recaptured in France/Holland/Belgium/elsewhere and didn't fit into any other category like Jewish, communist, pacifist, etc.? Historian932 (talk) 15:03, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Emigrants"? 

message: I am surprised that the Brown Triangle isn't listed. This was the common (as well as Black) Triangle worn by the Roma. There are various links through Google where one could read about this and even find orginal Nazi chart listings showing the brown triangle. Could someone please fix this? I think it is only fair to include this as it is historic fact. In later years, the Roma were made to stop wearing the Black Traigle and were forced to Start wearing the Brown. I would remedy this, but I do not have the capability - Paint Shop is not my friend.
Here are some links/sources confirming this fact:
*The Patrin Web Journal
*Buchenwald Museum
*The Holocaust History Project
*Army History - The Final Solution
*The Jewish Virtual Library
Thank you. I hope someone can clarify this. ExRat 05:54, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brown Triangle 

message: The Pink Triangle was not only used for homosexuals. It was applied to any who broke paragraphs 174, 175 and 176 of the penal code. 175 applied to homosexuals, and 175b sex with animals. 174 applied to incest and other sexual offences with dependents, while 176 covered pedophilia. Ref: http://www.pink-triangle.org
So a Pink triangle was essentially for sexual offences in general rather than just homosexuals.
:In line with this, Bibel-forscher is most certainly not the same as "Jehovah's witness". Also, political enemies could be more accurately put as political prisoners. Ilija Pavlic 15:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pink Triangle 

message: Looking for a fuller explanation of the upright red triangle.  Is 'Armed Forces' the same as POW?  Or some offence (or imagined offence) by someone withing the German Armed Forces? T L Miles 17:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armed Forces 

message: Just out of curiousity, how did Republican Spaniards end up in Nazi concentration camps?  Even though Germany was involved in a minor role during the Spanish Civil War, it would be odd that they would capture Spanish citizens.  Was it Spanish volunteers 
in the French Resistance?
I know Nationalist Spaniards fought on the side of the Axis in the Azul Division.  They wouldn't be Republicans though.
I know Franco jailed many Republicans after the civil war.
Anyway, just curious.  Thanks.
:Tens of thousands of republicans fled over the French border when Barcelona was captured by the Fascists, essentially ending the Civil War.  Those trapped in the Spanish State often ended up in Franco's 'work' camps and prisons, so many remained in France (along with anti-fascist refugees from across Europe) when the Germans invaded in 1940.   Many ended up in labor and death camps (leftists were rounded up even before ethnic and cultural victims), others went underground and either fled Europe, hid, or joined the resistance, from which they re-appeared in 1944.
See Wikis for Spanish Civil War and French Resistance,
T L Miles 15:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Republican Spaniards? 

message: There is a request under the heading "Badge Coding System" for a citation for the "Black Triangle" being worn for the offense of "birth control".
I do not have the editing skills to do the citation myself; however I can give you a citation from the man himself.
Adolf Hitler railed at some length against birth control in "MEIN KAMPF" Vol. I, Chapter IV: MUNICH (James Murphy, 1939 translation).
His argument was essentially that while promoting the birth of as many children as possible would allow 'natural selection' to cull the weak and leave only the strongest to populate Germany; as opposed to the use of birth control resulting in fewer children whose lives were then preserved whether deserving of survival or not.
Hitler did not treat this so much a moral issue as a practical one.  He was interested in developing the most viable possible children, who could be molded through minimal education and maximum physical training, into a generation who could retake Germany's territorial losses in World War I and thus avenge his perceived inequities in the Treaty of Versailles (Where Germany lost a large portion of its territory and nearly all its prestige).
Heinrich Himmler found the answer to this in the ‘Lebensborn’ program, to promote the procreation of racially pure Aryan children to populate and continue the Third Reich in the future.
Hitler also comments at length about the need for "pure" Aryans to procreate in order to save "the race" as well as his ideas for limiting the undesirable, to his theories, reproduction of races he considers inferior, the mentally ill, etc. in "MEIN KAMPF" Vol. II, Chapter II: THE STATE (James Murphy, 1939 translation)
If someone could reduce this to the proper form and add it to the page I would greatly appreciate it.
-Bonacon Lupinus —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.245.174.178 (talk) 07:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Badge Coding System - Black Triangle - birth control 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kennzeichen_f%C3%BCr_Schutzh%C3%A4ftlinge_in_den_Konzentrationslagern.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Female_race_defiler.svg
Can someone "spin" the 'Female Race Defiler' icon? AKismet 07:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just uploaded a new image, which is rotated for 180 degrees. --Biblbroks's talk 17:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia icon contradicts scanned page 

message: I'm not sure whether this is an article or a list - it seems like both merged into one. It lacks proper in-text references and the sources and external links make the whole thing difficult.--h i s   s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 14:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: It might help the article if it had dates for when the standardization for the classifications were made. --Trakon 22:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates 

message: There hasn't been any evidence for lesbians to be imprisoned in concentration camps due to their sexual orientation. The archive of the memorial site of Ravensbrück has evidence of four women with an additional remark of being lesbians: two of them been persecuted for political reasons, two for being jewish. One of the jewish inmates was given a black triangle due to sexual contacts with non-jewish persons as Claudia Schoppmann published. ref: Claudia Schoppmann: Nationalsozialistische Sexualpolitik und weibliche Homosexualität. (Dissertation, FU Berlin, 1990.) Centaurus, Pfaffenweiler 1991 (revisited 2nd edition 1997). </ref>  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.62.28 (talk) 19:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black triangles - lesbians 

message: Ok, Beyond My Ken, you are the one who needs to do some explaining here and it better to be a good one. So, what country occupied Europe between 1939-1944 approximately? A Nazi nation? A Nazi state? If a Nazi state then what state? Nazi Germany? (added after) - I've reread the entire article as well as the talk page trying to find some clues or remarks regarding the reason for this apparent ill-worded information bein here, but there are none. I'm looking forward to an answer and explanations from you then. GizzyCatBella (talk) 08:09, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're actually interested in a civil discussion of a content dispute, it would be best to drop the confrontational attitude.The sentence in question is Nazi concentration camp badges, primarily triangles, were part of the system of identification in Nazi camps. They were used in the concentration camps in the Nazi-occupied countries to identify the reason the prisoners had been placed there. GCB changed "Nazi-occuped countries" to "German-occupied countries", and I reverted, since "Nazi" is more specific and precise than "German".  "Nazi Germany" would also have been acceptable.  GCB reverted,and then added a totally unnecessary ref (not needed in the lede), which she herself referred to as "overkill" in her edit summary.The simple fact is that "Germany" is a political entity whose form, boundaires and typeof government have changed radically from era to era, and is therefore simply too vague a term to use when there is a more specific one available which will better inform our readers as to which Germany (German Empire, Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany, West or East Germany, or the current state) was the one which occupied multiple other European countries and ran concentration camps there. For simplicity, clarity, and specificity, "Nazi-" or "Nazi Germany-" are to be preferred over the vaguer, less specific "Germany-". Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:08, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have no confrontational attitude at all Beyond My Ken. Anyways, this is unimportant. I have just read your response. That's right, Europe has been conquered and occupied by Nazi Germany. So now please go and correct your clear error. GizzyCatBella (talk) 15:28, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  To my knowledge, I have made no error to be corrected,since I did not write the sentence in question. "Nazi-occupied Europe" = "Nazi Germany-occupied Europe", it's simply amore felicitous phrase in English. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  BTW, "[you] need[] to do some explaining here and it better to be a good one [sic]" is inherently confrontational, so please don't be disingenuous. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:02, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh, please Beyond My Ken, I said: "better be a good one" in a friendly way. I didn't mean anything nasty by saying that. I'm guessing many of you people here are assuming the confrontational reaction because you can't observe facial emotions, just my guess. No, I'm not unfriendly to you. But Beyond My Ken, seriously, change it to "Nazi Germany." Nazi's is ill-described. The "Nazis" alone explains nothing since there were various Nazi nationals all over Europe at the time. The country that conquered and occupied most of Europe was Nazi Germany. (added later) Sorry, I meant that there were different nationalities amongst the Nazi people, sorry. lol GizzyCatBella (talk) 21:31, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: No there were various Fascists all over Europe, but the Nazis were German. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:30, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, of course Beyond My Ken. So if you are bein specific, then I'll say this: NO, Europe wasn't occupied by NSDAP, Nazis or Fascists. Europe was occupied by Nazi Germany.  Why this stubbornness, I don't understand? GizzyCatBella (talk) 14:40, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Because I went to make the change, looked at it, and it simply wasn't as good a statement. Since the current statement is -- despite your stubborn refusal to accept it -- the functional equivalent, easily understood by anyone, I chose not to make the change. "Nazi-occupied" is simply a better phrase then "Nazi Germany-occupied", so, no, I will not be making the change, and I will revert you with reference to this discussion if you make it. If a consensus of editors agrees to it, then I'l stand aside, otherwise, no. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:13, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

text:  And while we're here, what was this about?  Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:32, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh, that, I just have discovered that National Socialism was a right-wing ideology, that's all. Surprising information one can sometimes acquire from Wikipedia :) so I commented on it, that's all. PS And on the "Nazi" occupation of Europe front, the sentence could be structured differently to provide missing information where the hell Nazis came from; I'll try despite your intimidations of reversal ok? Maybe you'll like the version "territories occupied by Nazi Germany" instead of "Nazi Germany-occupied"??  GizzyCatBella (talk) 04:11, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You try, I'll look, if it isn't better, I'll revert. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:23, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm interested in what would occur if someone altered the title of this article "United States invasion of Afghanistan" to "Republicans invasion of Afghanistan"? GizzyCatBella (talk) 04:37, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  You know Beyond My Ken, in Poland during the "Nazi" occupation there were buses and trams carrying sings "nur fur Deutsch" or "Deuche line" That must have been an error they didn't correct. The sings should have read "nur fur Nazi" or "Nazi line" I guess. Just joking, I'm just amazed how hard you defend your position. :) https://demotywatory.pl/4829829/Nur-für-Deutsche-   GizzyCatBella (talk) 04:55, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Irrelevant. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:17, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nazi or German-occupied Europe 

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