Talk:Barbaro (horse)

message: This page needs a huge amount of information added. For instance, what colour was he? Was he a stallion or a gelding? There are innumerable amounts of info to be added. MorwenofLossarnarch 13:31, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you'd like to read up on some of the all-time great horses, this article is a good place to start.  Note that it only covers thoroughbreds.  There are a lot of fascinating stories. SubSeven 08:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More info 

message: It would be good to have a photo of Barbaro/Prado just after the fracture... I haven't kept up with copyright issues. Are online newspaper photos still considered Fair Use? If so, I have a good one from the Baltimore Sun. JDG 19:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  News photo? 

message: I don't know what vantage point the captions are referring to... but it was definitely his right leg that was injured.. but the arrow is pointing to his left, and the 2nd picture doesn't show him favoring that leg..
That's because he was still running Punk18
:Actually, the arrow is pointing to his right leg. Since he is facing forward, the arrow is on the left. — TheKMantalk 21:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Right, Left 

message: Where is the life threat from a broken leg, other than blood loss?  Is it different for horses than for humans?  Also, why is it that other horses with comparable injuries are usually put down, while Barbaro was not?  Is it because of the potential future stud fees?  That seems cold. Phr (talk) 20:53, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Horses are fairly heavy animals, and cannot stand on three legs alone without causing injury to those legs. Also, horses are unable to lay down for long periods of time without causing internal injuries. Personally, I think Barbaro was spared euthanasia for several reasons: after the injury he was able to remain standing and calm, the injury occured on a nationally televised race, he was a Kentucky Derby winner, and yes, he was definitely worth keeping alive for the stud fees. — TheKMantalk 21:10, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Articles following the injury and the surgery (including those stating that his chances of survival following surgery were 50-50, which as far as I know is still true), have cited both the risk of internal injury (as TheKMan states), and more immediately, the risk of infection.  The latter risk is somewhat reduced in Barbaro's case because his skin was not broken while at the race track, but even the incisions made in the "sterile" surgical environment pose a risk.  I also read somewhere that due to the size of the animal, the amount of antibiotics needed to reduce the risk of infection would themselves pose a medical risk to the horse.  Sadly, these magnificent animals are also very fragile because they cannot sit or lie down for extended periods, and therefore are very vulnerable when their legs are injured.  6SJ7 04:25, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I always wondered about this too -- horses were always being put down for broken legs but no one ever explained why.  Recent news reports in the last couple of days have (finally) gone into detail regarding the two major problems.  First, a horse's circulatory system apparently only functions properly when their weight is distributed on all four feet.  Second, the additional weight on the compensating foot (in Barbaro's case, the left one) can cause a very serious complication called laminitis which results in loss of the hoof and a great deal of pain. Bookgrrl 23:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an outstanding "Explainer" article from Slate that does an excellent job answering this very question:  —Xanderer 16:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  life threatening injury? 

message: Didn't the vets and race officials find out how Barbaro injured himself? I think I saw an article stating that they saw Brother Derek's front leg trip Barbaro up. Punk18H
Horses cannot purposley trip others , but it could have been a foul, Brother dereks leg could have swayed out a little ways looking like he purosley tripped barbaro but think about it a horse can not purposely trip another horse and like i said it could have been a foul
:This idea that contact with Brother Derek led Barbaro to take the bad step that led to his breakdown is simply one person's theory.  Given that, I think it gets far too much play in the article.  At least, it should be noted that this is speculation by a single official. --JayareIL 06:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The cause? 

message: Today someone added a paragraph about Barbaro's latest setbacks, including the comment that he is still not "out of the woods", and ending with this sentence:His appetite remains strong and he remains as active as he can under the circumstances, however, since his value as a stud remains tied to his ability to mount a female in a natural way, the healing of his leg is necessary for the owners to capitalize on this animal's post race career value.
--I thought that natural breeding wasn't used anymore, because of the risk to the stallion. Wouldn't they use artificial insemination? Or is that needed for the collection too. --Naelphin 15:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In this breed, this is indeed a requirement. And natural breeding still occurs often, although less and less with the more valuable stallions. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 16:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I just don't know sometimes 

message: We do not need the day-by-day report.  Let us sum up what happened immedidately after the injury and *sigh*, the up-to-day status. This has far too newsy a feel to it. We do not know if this vigil we are keeping a death watch or not.
If I had my druthers, I think it would be better if we imposed a rule on ourselves like: "No information that is less than 3 days old". In other words: no daily status.  Such information is not going to survive in the long run so it is not encyclopedic.  I will be sorry if the horse does not live out the month, BUT, we need to keep things in perspective that supposedly, "Wikipeida is not a newspaper."  Except that our Main Page has an "In the News" section (which I have always thought is a bad idea because it encourages such short-term thinking).
If you ever looked at Source Watch, you will see that it is not very good prose because it often reduced down to just a string of quotes. Wikipedia is supposed to speak in its own authoritative voice and procse and provide supporting documentation via footnotes.  -- 75.26.3.87 20:15, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree, but too ill to go into all the reasons why... It's valuable to keep a running tally on events. Then someone will come along (as you just did) and have all the material to build a good, detailed synopsis. And in the meantime, everybody stays informed... You have to get used to the fact that Wikipedia is not an encyclopedia. Not sure exactly what it is, but the old encyclopedia label is at this point just a convenient moniker. We're more like a MegaCompendium, a repository of nearly everything. That's our role and you may as well forget about fighting it... Your current version is short and to the point, yet so much is lost. I'm weighing whether to bring it back to the day-to-day format. JDG 01:52, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is the title of the article? It is about one animal. It not about the vet, or the trainer, or the owner or the jockey, or any of the other large cast of characters surrounding this beast. It is about Barbaro.  You should quote zero people about this animal.  Wikipedia should speak in its own voice. Otherwise, this place is just Oprah, Jerry Springer, game shows and the rest of the schlock you see on daytime TV. -- 64.175.41.243 12:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Er, the article about Mount Everest goes into considerable detail about people who have climbed it.  It's not just about the mountain.  An article about the U.S.S. Enterprise from Star Trek, that was purely about the ship and didn't mention Captain Kirk, would be pretty silly too. Phr (talk) 18:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barbaro watch 

message: Given the revert war/blanking from these IP's, I requested semi protection at WP:RPP.  I hope that was appropriate. Phr (talk) 10:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The editor in question is , a banned editor with a history of editing despite of that. I have semiptotected the page because of that. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 14:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  semi protection 

message: Of course, someday we will have to change the tense of the verbs to past tense.  Naturally, we all hope that Barbero does survive and that the editing of that section will be easy, but it seems we have a difficult wait ahead of us. AP reported two hours ago that Barbaro has good night, remains stable -- 64.175.41.243 17:49, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concern for Barbaro 

message: See folks? "Concern for Barbaro" is not encyclopedic.  It is merely contemporary fluff — it does not stand the test of time.  And the writing in that section was beautiful. But to any mind with the more mature judement than a 14-year-old girl, it was misguided. Thems the breaks. BTW: The good reports just keep on coming in:  Barbaro has new growth in left hoof but NPOV sez: How nice, but so what? -- 64.175.41.143 12:22, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concern for Barbaro 

message: :Approximately 130 meters into the race, just before the sixteenth pole, there was accidental contact between Barbaro and opposing horse Brother Derek. Barbaro drifted out just as Brother Derek was closing the margin. Brother Derek extended his right front leg and, as can best be determined, it hit Barbaro's right hind. This apparently touched off the "bad step" leading to Barbaro's injury. Barbaro's head immediately reared up as he had sustained fractures above and below his right hind ankle. His right hind leg suddenly failed to support his weight.<insert ref here /> The preceding explanation has not been confirmed by anyone outside of Pimlico as far as I am aware. It is simply one of many possible explanations for what occured, and it is an explanation that most people have discounted.
Hi, emphasis is mine. I have removed the bold bit from the article, because of its style. If someone who's knowledgeable could rewrite it and add it back (or make the article more NPOV) please feel free to do so. Thank you. --Kjoonlee 17:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  POV is still evidenced in that section, I think. I tried to remove it. Evan Donovan 00:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  first-person bit removed 

message: This article might benefit from a paragraph that discusses the larger truths that the physician faces in managing a horse injury like this.  The issues seem to be:
* pain management
* horse mobility
* balance of weight between the legs
Also, it has been stressed recently that the horses condition is like a house of cards: if only one leg fails entirely and that leg cannot be maintained to bear at least some weight, then all hope for a dignified life for the animal is lost because, even though he can be kept alive "in bed", he will either die of pnuemonia, requiring constant pain and infection suppression, or he will live until his other legs atrophy. You can have a "lame" horse with a bad foot, but there is no such thing as a three-legged horse in the way that we occasionally have seen three-legged dogs.  That is the Nature of the beast. We should somehow inform the reader of these truths (I am not really qualified, but there has got to be a "horse person" or vet who can competently describe the situation). In past eras, that is why they simply shot horses with a broken leg: if this had happened thrity years ago, then such a horse might have simply been put down that day. -- 71.141.246.35 17:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  An "educational" section 

message: Please do not report this story in quotes. It has suffered from "quote-itis" since the horse broke its leg.  Report facts in Wikipedia's own authentic voice and point to supporting documents. And use the <ref> tags for links in the prose. -- 71.141.224.144 18:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No more quotes! 

message: 8 months in a equine "ICU" is an extraordinarily large amount of effort to save any one horse.  The lead section should probably note this, since the average reader might not be aware of this fact. -- 199.33.32.40 20:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  8 months in ICU 

message: Can we get that "emotion" stuff in one place? It is currently both in Trivia and "public reaction". -- 199.33.32.40 02:29, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outpouring of emotion 

message: I added a paragraph that mentions Deadspin and the various other sources of negativity towards Barbaro, his doctor, his owners and his supporters. I think it's very balanced. 
Catherine Huebscher 11:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Public Reaction Section 

message: Please listen to DR. Richardson at today's press conference and you will know the complete story about why he was put down- BARBARO HAD LAMINITIS IN BOTH FRONT LEGS! I'm going to change it again, please do not erase!!
<a href="
 http://wjz.com/video/?id=24478@wjz.dayport.com">Dean Richardson New Bolton Press Conference following Barbaro's euthanization</a>
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Catherine Huebscher (talk • contribs) 02:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Laminitis the night before he was euthanized 

message: I know this is an emotional time for Barbaro's fans and well-wishers, but we must keep in mind that this should be encyclopedic - recent changes have made the article more of an essay or even a eulogy than an encyclopedia entry.  The emotion is understandable as it has only been one day, but remember that now is when the article is the most visible.  Mdeaton 19:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see someone corrected the above-mentioned section.  Much better.  I also removed the "equine enthusists were shocked" in the introduction - - I doubt anyone could realistically be shocked at the outcome.  Mdeaton 19:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs to be encyclopedic 

message: I think that we will have to keep an eye on how this animal's death might change the sport.  Nothing has happened yet, but this article seems like a thoughtful musing: Barbaro's death: Equine beauty meets harsh reality Jan. 30, 2007
-- 199.33.32.40 00:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Legacy

message: This needs to be cleaned up. Right now it reads like a blog of the horse's day to day checkups. Something that weeds out the more useless info and keeps the major difficulties needs to be done. Zzz345zzZ 06:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there are. Feel free to help please help improve the article, so readers can have a better understanding of the topic at hand. The major problems should be mentioned while smaller details left to external links. Zzz345zzZ 08:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Injury section

message: They tend to read like a play-by-play of what was happening. It was fine the day the news broke, but the horse has been dead for awhile and most of the info is 6+months old. Tenses need changing and there is lots of superfluous info and predictions throughout that portion of the article.Zzz345zzZ 04:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup of Recovery sections

message: if you're going to single out deadspin for being so negative, some sort of citation should be made to explain why it's worse than the cnnsi, yahoo, etc articles talking similarly about the cult of personality around Barbaro. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.107.96.14 (talk) 20:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deadspin Public Reaction Needs Citation 

message: I have heard that some of Barbaro's sperm was taken and he now has a three month old foal. My friend and mom told me. I'm pretty sure it's true.
5/4/07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.62.247.136 (talk) 02:36, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barbaro's Heir 

message: Should the Barbaro Fund be mention in the Article. I've heard i mention quite a bit.ShadowWriter 18:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Barbaro Fund

message: Please stop adding "Barbaro's brother was born in 2007"...it's irrelevant...well, for one reason...because Barbaro has another full brother and a half brother. Smashville 17:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brother 

message: Should the Honors, Memorial and Legacy section be combined?  It seems like there is no clear rule about what kind of information belongs where.
Races (like at Delaware and Pimlico) named after him, etc... where do you put that?  Under Memorial or Honor?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.243.99.90 (talk) 16:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combine? 

message: I have had my addition to the Book Section removed by a user who thinks the book is "non-notable". According to the  notablily requirements, the book is indeed notable. Racing industry publications have reviewed the book as being a worthy addition to the literature regarding Barbaro and even his co-owner, Gretchen Jackson, wrote the afterword to the book. The last removal of the book listing was labeled as removing "spam". It is not spam to list the book, and to relist it after it is erroneously removed, is it?   
Granted, I am new at this, so I would like some assistance with determining how to keep the addition of this book in the section of Books on the Barbaro page.
The book is: 
Brown, Alex (2011). Greatness and Goodness: Barbaro and his Legacy.  Glen View Media. .
Thanks in advance for any assistance understanding why this is happening and how to resolve the issue.  SouthernFox (talk) 02:52, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Just so we're clear, was it your addition or User:Alexbrown's? Either way, Alex him/herself admitted here not only to being the author of the book in question but also that the book was quite new. In that light, I believed it to be an attempt at self-promotion. These recent removals were a continuation of that view. In the absence of an edit summary or an explanation on this talk page, I had no reason to believe that the user's motives in mentioning the book on WP had changed. ClaretAsh 12:05, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi and thanks for an explanation, no I'm not Alex Brown but now I see why you would think that!  Alex added the book, and I can see why that's self-promotion...but I thought that if someone who had read the book and knew it was endorsed by the industry (not to mention Mrs. Jackson herself) added it then that would be okay.  I'm very new to Wikipedia and didn't know about talk pages or discussion pages. Sorry about that!   Would it be okay now to put it back?  The thing is, I don't know how to prove I'm not Alex Brown...I'm just a thoroughbred owner in Alabama.   I appreciate any guidance in this!      SouthernFox (talk) 17:08, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for clarifying things. No, you don't need to provide ID. Your word is good enough. As for the book, I don't know whether industry endorsement counts towards notability under Wikipedia's standards but, pending someone disagreeing, I'll add it back in. Thanks again for clarifying. ClaretAsh 11:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Book Section - Edits being removed

message: Barbaro's rear right leg was shattered into 20 pieces. The pictures of him on the track protecting his broken leg are heart-breaking. He trusted his humans to take care of him, but did they? If he were a human and given the choice, he probably would consented to the operation and some treatment for laminitis in his left rear leg. Once the treatment of the lamitis in his left rear leg was unsuccessful (they kept cutting away his hoof, which wasn't re-growing) and he developed new complications (an absess) in his apparently healed right rear leg, he might have decided to end it all had he been given the choice. Instead, the owners and the vet decided to wait until he developed laminitis in both of his front legs. Laminitis is a hideously painful affliction. 
This article says that Richardson had not used the LCP on a horse before but here is a quote from the Smithsonian magazine:
But Richardson had an ally, a narrow, stainless-steel bar with 16 threaded screw holes. Inserting plates with screws beneath the skin to stabilize human bones is common, and it's been done as long as 35 years in horses. But in the past few years, Synthes Inc. of West Chester, Pennsylvania, has developed the locking compression plate (LCP), a particularly secure and effective type. No equine surgeon had more experience with it than Richardson. (Emphasis added.) http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/barbaro.html#ixzz1hZ6woPRH
I wonder how much pain was inflicted on this poor animal because of the vet's ego. I know that other vets disagreed with the duration of Barbaro's treatment. I will try to find links for other renowned vets criticism of treatment and insert a section in the article dealing with this issue. Also, since Barbaro had no control over his treatment, I wonder how he can be considered brave. He was not a human being, he was an animal who followed basic animal instincts (sniffing for mares, grazing). Bravery involves choice and Barbaro had no choice. Barbaro was hospitalized in his stall for 8 months. They claim he never suffered, but I wonder... FrancisDane (talk) 15:46, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barbaro's " Bravery" and overly aggressive vet treatment 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Barbaro. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929084205/http://www.ntra.com/video.aspx?id=18273 to http://www.ntra.com/video.aspx?id=18273
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:13, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Barbaro. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060529095156/http://msn.foxsports.com:80/horseracing/story/5626796 to http://msn.foxsports.com/horseracing/story/5626796
*Added  tag to http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RAC_BARBARO?SITE=TXMID&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070309235452/http://horseracing.sportsline.com:80/cbs/headlines/showarticle.aspx?articleId=12153 to http://horseracing.sportsline.com/cbs/headlines/showarticle.aspx?articleId=12153
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.vet.upenn.edu/newsandevents/news/Barbaro_Update8-28.htm
*Added  tag to http://msn.foxsports.com/horseracing/story/6047292?FSO1&ATT=HCP>1=8705
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070117145139/http://www.vet.upenn.edu:80/newsandevents/news/Barbaro_Update1-10.htm to http://www.vet.upenn.edu/newsandevents/news/Barbaro_Update1-10.htm
*Added  tag to http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070128/ap_on_sp_ot/rac_barbaro
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080125010338/http://www.ntra.com:80/content.aspx?type=news to http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=23973
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929083756/http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=23392 to http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=23392
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070429030634/http://www.courant.com:80/sports/bal-te.medical21may21,0,6592683.story to http://www.courant.com/sports/bal-te.medical21may21,0,6592683.story
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928003518/http://www.pimlico.com/NewsEvents/FeatureStories/Details/Baltimore122006B.htm to http://www.pimlico.com/NewsEvents/FeatureStories/Details/Baltimore122006B.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071030074212/http://www.ntra.com:80/content.aspx?type=news&id=26592 to http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=26592
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060810112602/http://www.ntra.com:80/stats_bios.aspx?id=17274 to http://www.ntra.com/stats_bios.aspx?id=17274
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070614033948/http://www.ntra.com/ridingwithbarbaro/ to http://www.ntra.com/ridingwithbarbaro/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:59, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Barbaro (horse). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060616130859/http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33671 to http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33671
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:36, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is a horse named Barbaro in Dumas's "The Count of Monte Cristo." Is there a source connecting this fictional horse to the real one? If so, is it worth a mention in the article? Ishboyfay (talk) 21:41, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  His name