Talk:Muslims/Archive 2

message: The claim is made in the article that Al Jazeera shows pictures of cheering crowds when a bomb blows up a US humvee and kills some US soldiers. That's not terrorism. It's perfectly justified to kill illegal foreign soldiers who have invaded your country and then to celebrate it. Where is the PROOF that large crowds are always seen celebrating on the streets after a terrorist attack? Where was this celebration say after attack on Russian school? The only case I am aware of is of some Palestinians celebrating after 9/11 or some Palestinians celebrating suicide bombing in relation to Israel. I want to see proof that Al Jazeera always shows pictures of crowds celebrating  a terrorist attack (note: attacking foreign troops is not terrorism). OneGuy 12:44, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, but now you have to post proof that large crowds were celeberating on the streets after a terrorist attack. Not all Palestinaians are Muslims by the way. Morover, Palestianians are like 0.00001 % of Muslim population? How is that relevant to an article on Muslim? You need to show relevancy to the topic there OneGuy 13:39, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: And Palestinian dislike for Israel and the US (who provide weapons to Israel) is in specific context of Israeli occupation of Palestinian land and the ongoing conflict. How is that relevant to the article on Muslims in general? I will wait for you to tie that together and explain the connection there. OneGuy 19:35, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  There are pages for Palestinians, or start one if it doesn't exist. what theyfeel goes in there. Alternatively if you can somehow come up with a sentence which goes "some muslims feel......<insert stuff>.....and this is typified by the Palestinians". To which I will add "but some Muslim Arabs are represented in the Israeli parliament and many Muslims still live in the United States. Many Muslims trade with and study in the United States. Many American companies operate in Muslim countries and in fact oil services companies such as Halliburton, ExxonMobil, Schlumberger,  (will look for some more) form a large percentage of the organizations extracting petroleum from muslim countries indicating that Muslims may not be totally against these nations."--Malbear 08:14, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I didn't insert that line about Palestinians. YOU DID. Your irrelevant rambling is not making sense above. I can respond to it, but I won't. Stick to the topic. Why did you insert that line about Palestinain celeberating? OneGuy 08:32, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually you did insert the line about Palestinians celebrating so your statement is a LIE and ipso facto you are the LIAR, meaning no better than those you accuse as such. Initially I added a statement about Muslims celebrating which you corrected to be Palestinians celebrating after 9/11 and Isreali bombings....which I added based on what you wrote.--Malbear 11:48, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Anyone can go to the history of the article and check who inserted that statement. YOU DID. I mentioned Palestinian only here on the TALK page as a side note. You initially claimed that Muslims are seen celebrating on the streets every time (EVERY TIME!) a terrorist incident occurs. I disputed that, and asked you to prove it. Gosh, dude. Are you really this stupid or are you just playing games here? How old are you anyway? OneGuy 12:31, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Large crowds celeberate terrorist attacks? =

message: *I know that, all things considered, this is a trivial question, but I've never had it answered: what difference (if any) is there between the meanings (or usage) of 'muslim' and 'moslem'? -Litefantastic 10:54, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: none. "Moslem" is a more old-fashioned transliteration of the same word. For consistency, the article should stick to either orthography, and not mingle both. dab 14:08, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Moslem or Muslim?

message: :Allah is just an Arabic word for God, just as "Christ" is a Greek word for "Messiah."  I don't see what your point is there.  Also, the Christian/Jewish God said a lot of things (eg Leviticus 20:13) that are no longer taken at face value.  Does that particular verse imply that "all Christians are homophobic militants?"Pakaran 17:38, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not all terrorists are Muslim, but are all Muslims terrorists ? 

message: For 68.107.102.129's paranoid rantings and everyone else's responses, see Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance)#Muslims took over all Islam-related Wikipedia content. - Mustafaa 22:30, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent trolling

message: Why are these vandalism jokes allowed to remain in the article?
Islamism is a new form of Islam which views its teachings as the original, authentic form of Islam, and which views other forms of Islam as corrupted and illegitimate. In contrast, many in Sufi Islam see the incorporation of modern enlightenment values as consistent with the original theological program that they believe Islam was based on (see ijthad). In between these two views one can find a wide array of beliefs in Shiite and Sunni Islam.
Islamism is not that new. It can be traced almost to the beginning of Islam 1300 years ago to Ibn Taymiyah. 
"There are distinctions between those who seek to live their lives as the first three generations of Islam did, and those who seek to change or reform Islam to conform to today's international norms."
"All the major denominations of Islam are fundamentalist, in the technical sense of the term." Whose technique?
There are no major denominations of Islam that have a liberal theological approach, but there are some smaller liberal movements within Islam."
These passages contradict each other. There are distinctions between those who seek to pwede bng pgttrahin ang mga dpat trahin? live as "fundamentalists" but there are no major denominations that are not "fundamentalist"? Fundamentalism is a Western word applied to Islam. Muslims and even Islamists do not use it themselves. It is a loan word used to mirror Christian fundamentalism. You could also call Islam orthodox, conservative, high-fidelity, or traditional. Islam is just Islam, as it has always been - seeking its true roots - not some new fundamentalist Islamic movement. That's a contrived notion.  --ThinkPink 05:33, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  These are jokes, right? Islamism new? 

message: "Some Muslims of today wish to see the entire world become part of "Dunya al-Islam", with any actions being excusable if it expands the realm of Islam or reduces the "Dunya al-Harb". Their beliefs include the conversion of all "Kaffir" (deniers/unbelievers) under the banner of Islam.  Examples include Islamic organizations in locations such as Sudan, Ethiopia and the Mollucas in Indonesia.  They regard any arrangements with non-Muslims as only a cease fire as there can be no proper accommodation between both opposing worlds.  "
This pretty POV. "any actions excusable"? Puhlease. Conversion and proselytization are common to many religions. This makes it sound like extortion. "Some Muslims" is pretty vague. I'm sure there are some Muslims who believe that the US is the greatest country in the world. Why doesn't their opinion get quoted here? Doesn't fit someone's agenda, apparently. --ThinkPink 05:35, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  These are jokes right? Muslims want to conquer the world? 

message: "This view was comprimised somewhat when footage of seemingly elated Palestinians celebrating in the streets after Israeli suicide bombings and the September 11th attatcks were widely disseminated through Both western and Arabic television networks, skewing the reaction of the Arab world at-large in the minds of most westerners." 
Not only is this bit of slander full of typos but it's false. See Celebrations of the September 11, 2001 attacks. --ThinkPink 05:36, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is a joke right? Celebrating 9/11? 

message: "Some Muslim authorities see a need for changes in the philosophy of the ummah. Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, the general manager of Al-Arabiya asked: "It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims." "
Is the general manager of a TV station now a Muslim authority? Why is this chap being quoted? because his statements jibe with the views of some editor? Why not quote some real Muslim authorities like Ayatollah Sistani,  Sheikh Tantawi or Qaradawi?
"We should note that not all terrorists are Muslims." WOW - How brilliant! Is this "Islam for Duummies." Does this really need to be said? Apparently so.....
According to US State Department, Patterns of Golbal Terrorism, 1999, of the 169 anti-US attacks reported for 1999, Latin America accounted for 96, Western Europe for 30, Eurasia for 9, and Africa 16. The Middle East accounted for 11, and Asia for 6.
Tamil Tigers, a non-Islamist terrorist group that has 10,000 members, has carried out 240+ suicide bombings.   Some Christian terrorist groups in the Indian state of Nagaland and Jewish terrorist groups in the US and Israel are also active. 
What does this have to do with Muslim? Is it necessary to discuss terrorism in an article about Muslims? Let's get a grip here people! 
" "This is the single biggest failure of Muslims at present, you don't have credible leaders. You don't have a real voice of conscience." When things go wrong, leaders blame "the Americans and the Jews and the Christians.... we are still in a state of denial."
"
Again, why is this chap's opinion being quoted? Because his views happen to coincide with the editor? Why not quote Mahathir bin Mohamad or any one of the other billion Muslims? See Mahathir#Jews and Mahathir#Resignation.--ThinkPink 05:37, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is a joke right? Not all Muslims are terrorists? 

message: I think we need an additional article on who is Muslim equitant to who is Jew. And should also mention Muslims before Muhammad(PBUH). For example the article Judism says and let me quote
:"According to religious Jews, the Biblical patriarch Abraham was the first Jew"
So why shouldn't we have the information of First Muslim?
Zain 21:24, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is muslim? 

message: No one has stepped forward to say that the page should be kept, in its current form as a rival version of Islam. It seems to be edited mainly by pious Muslim anons. I'm planning to cut it down to just the first two paras, about Muslim being the preferred term, with a little extra piety-pruning, IF I don't hear a storm of protest by tomorrow. Zora 07:16, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's so brief now that it needs to be merged, or, at least, to split away from Islam what doesn't relate to the religion. Islam is about the belief, this article should be about the believers. Failing that, it needs to be merged. GarrettTalk 03:45, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Pruning

message: I have heard tell that the word "Muslim" was also commonly used during the Holocaust by Nazis to refer to female Jews - this comes from a comment made in the (factually accurate in most verifiable details) novel Making History by Stephen Fry by the character Leo Zuckermann/Axl Bauer, who is represented as an expert on the Holocaust. Can anyone verify this detail to be true? Matthew Platts 21:11, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other uses. 

message: Some anti-Muslim activists have gone on a Wikipedia compaign to erase all use of the word "prophet" in connection with Muhammad. 
It is true that when some Muslims contribute to Wikipedia, they write things like "the Prophet Muhammad, PBUH" and suchlike. That can be NPOVed as "the prophet Muhammad". It is not POV to describe someone as a prophet. That's a religious role, like shaman or priest. Use of the word does not imply that one recognizes Muhammad as a TRUE prophet, or THE prophet. Prophet is routinely used to describe the Hebrew prophets, frex, and no one believes that this implies conversion to Judaism or Christianity. Please stop the prophet-removal campaign. Zora 22:18, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Prophet" 

message: *Islam
*Moh'min - Muslim - Fasiq
*Muslim - Munafiq - Kafir
i have used that format to show diffrent ends in the same scale, first line refering to inner belife, second one refering to the exterior belife.
--Striver 16:38, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also section 

message: I rearranged Mpatel's addition. I removed the reference to the five pillars of Islam. That's a Sunni formulation; the Shi'a use the roots and branches of Islam. Even though I'm not a Shia (nor a Muslim!) I want to be sure that Wikipedia is fair to the Shia. Zora 21:38, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revision of M. Patel's revisions