Talk:Coat of arms of Ireland

message: : A commission of Edward IV into the arms of Ireland found them to be blazoned: Azure, three crowns Or, bordure Argent in pale.
Really?  I didn't know a bordure could be in pale.  Early blazon was sometimes sloppy but this goes a bit far.  Do the cited sources really give exactly that language? —Tamfang (talk) 03:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably because they were the arms of Robert de Vere, Duke of Ireland, and an unusual blazon indicated an unusually successful courtier. Despite his early death his arms seem to have carried on as the arms of the Lordship, and why not.86.42.207.224 (talk) 09:12, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

text: Apparent typo. I've fixed it. --RA (talk) 22:18, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  early blazon 

message: : It has appeared in the third quarter of the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom since the Union of the Crowns of Ireland and England to that of Scotland by James VI of Scotland in March 1603. Over the years this harp was altered and rearranged representing the various changes in the political status quo ....
It was moved in 1707 from the third quarter to the third quarter; then in 1714 it was moved from the third quarter to the third quarter; then in 1801 it was moved from the third quarter to the third quarter; and finally in 1837 it was moved from the third quarter to the third quarter.  Did I miss any significant changes? —Tamfang (talk) 04:43, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It means that the harp - always in the same quarter - was redesigned with/without a head and breasts. Nothing to do with political changes as far as anyone can tell, just style and fashion.86.42.207.224 (talk) 09:05, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that Cromwell's Commonwealth didn't mind the harp with breasts, even though we think of him as a censorious Puritan.86.42.207.224 (talk) 09:16, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

text:  Ah! The word rearranged is what threw me.  How about something like The design of the harp has varied in its artistic details ? —Tamfang (talk) 11:33, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In heraldry the details of the design don't really matter. As long as what the artist depicts is clearly a gold harp with silver strings it still counts. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 21:10, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did anyone suggest otherwise? —Tamfang (talk) 21:22, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  altered and rearranged? 

message: The image depicted of the Coat of Arms of the Kingdom of Ireland is ahistorical and a creation by its author based on his interpretation of a coat of arms motif that appears on The Custom House completed in 1791 in Dublin. While a gold harp on a blue shield with a crown surmounting the shield was sometimes used by the government in Ireland, the stonework on this building that portrays the shield of Ireland in a stylistic way with the supporters for England (a lion) and Scotland (a unicorn) is simply heraldic artwork and not a proper coat of arms of the said kingdom. The Kingdom of Ireland created by Henry VIII never had its own unique royal coat of arms. i.e. a full armorial achievement. After 1603 and the Union of the Crowns of England and Scotland, the royal arms of James I of England (James VI of Scotland) did include a harp for Ireland in the third quarter. the image in question is loosely based on the current UK royal arms. It was created by simply placing the shield for Ireland as the sole shield and retaining the Order of the Garter collar, St Edward's Crown, supporters and royal motto of the current UK coat of arms (which is not in this depiction in its the full armorial achievement format as it is missing the helm, crest and compartment). It is noteworthy that the creator refers to the crown as the "imperial crown" - which is anachronistic as there was no British Empire during the Kingdom of Ireland period. While I think the creator was sincere in thinking this was indeed the historical coat of arms for the Kingdom of Ireland from 1541 until the Act of Union 1801, Ireland - unlike Scotland - did not have its own royal coat of arms during this period. When the then Anglo-Irish parliament met for the last time before the Union of 1801, it did not request a separate royal coat of arms for use in Ireland as Scotland did almost a century before in the Act of Union 1707. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would be most interested to learn about it. Jm3106jr (talk) 16:35, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I gave essentially the same response to the author when the image was added to the Kingdom of Ireland page. It is a work of artistic styalising, and not part of the arms. --RA (talk) 17:18, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Coat of Arms of the Kingdom of Ireland image is dubious

message: I may be mistaken about the armiger being the Government of Ireland. I believed I had read that somewhere. However, oddly, the 1945 registration doesn't give an armiger. Where it normally would, it gives simply, Arms of Ireland. See regisration.
Any ideas? I'm thinking of emailing the Chief Hearld's Office for clarification. If it went through OTRS we may be able to cite them. --RA (talk) 19:11, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  No armiger on registration 

message: I'm proposing that Presidential Standard (Ireland) be merged in to Coat of arms of Ireland on account that they both discuss the same thing and because the presidential standard article is a stub. The standard article could be simply merged in as a new section. --RA (talk) 08:30, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Flags are not coats of arms. -- Evertype·✆ 17:35, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Standards (or a banner in this case) are. In this case, they are essentially the same thing and one article is a stub. --RA (talk) 18:35, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Oppose, for same reason - flags and arms are separate things Zymurgy (talk) 00:24, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge: It's already has its own section in Coat of arms of Ireland and due to its brevity is hardly worth having a separate article, so the section will only increase by around 50%. ww2censor (talk) 04:27, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: Only the escutcheon is shown and the Office of the Chief Herald registered them as "Arms of Ireland", as opposed to "coat of arms" since the rest is not there. Shouldn't the correct term therefore not be "Arms of Ireland"? Gryffindor (talk) 15:22, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arms? 

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thread_title:  External links modified