Talk:The Matrix/Archive 2

message: In the trivia section, it is mentioned that the script was written with Brandon Lee in mind for the lead role. Does anyone have anything that verifies this? It doesn't make sense to me because Lee was killed in 1993 and the earliest draft of the Matrix screenplay I've seen was written in 1996. IceKeyHunter 15:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brandon Lee? 

message: I have a question about the nature of ripples in the Matrix trilogy. They appear in multiple instances of the trilogy, off the top of my head I can recall the helicopter explosion in the first film, whenever Neo takes flight in the second film, the building explosion in the seond film [after the architect scene], and in the third film, when Neo pushes off the wall during the final fight with Smith. There's probably more instances elsewhere-- like the mirror in the first film, and when we pull into the television screen during the interrogation scene. Do these ripples have any significant meaning, or are they strictly visual? Off the top of my head, I can think of Confusious(?) saying that we should float down the river of life, and I can recall Bruce Lee describing his fighting style as moving like water "You must move like liquid. When you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup. Water adapts" [or something like that]. Am I looking too deep into things? Also, do you think maybe we should have a Matrix Philosophy page? We can probably move a lot of info from the trivia sections into a philosophical page. A R Blackwood 09:27, 03 June 2006
ANSWER:
The Ripple effect is an occurence that happens when the programing of the matrix cannot keep up with a certain factor being added to the equation. An example of this would be when the helicopter crashes into the building in the first movie. We see the crash happening in super slow motion. The matrix was calculating the proper result, the proper sum of a helicopter crashing into that building. So essentially the ripple effect is lag.  When Neo takes off etc. the matrix does not know how to respond to that kind of anomaly so it also lags. Note that these lags are seen at extreme slow motion, so the normal people of the matrix could not catch them with the naked eye. --Doncroft--69.210.26.15 15:45, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My assumption was always that it was by-product of the One's powers - the lag as you said - but that, in certain instances, it was the One *forcing* the Matrix to "slow down". After all, the first example, with the helicopter - that's when you get Tank going "I knew it! He's the one!" and Morpheous says to Trinity "Do you believe it now?". The implication is that Neo forced the "ripple effect" and in doing so saved Trinity from the explosion.(195.92.168.163 13:22, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: new question, ok, what is the signifigance of the mirror sence in the first movie, is that the very first time neo manifests the power of the One? he sees the broken mirror, then as he is looking at it, it slides together and becomes whole,then touching the mirror and it acting as liquid and trying to take over his body, was it just the power of the one working on a subconc level? or is it a random anomaly? could we say that it is a reprisentation(sp?) of neo himself, he living his life thinking that there is something wrong with the world, and feeling broken about it, then finding proof that there really is something more, i.e. the run in with smith, finding out that said run in was actoualy real, meeting morphious, being told about the matrix, so at first he feels more solid about his life in finding out that he is right, but then he feels very much unreal knowing that everything is about to change and become all encompassing, seen in the liquid state of the mirror, and then the liquid trying to cover his body. so what was it all about in your guys's opinion?--Manwithbrisk 16:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  the ripple effect 

message: "The success of The Matrix, particularly on the DVD format led to two sequels."
Why on earth does that need a citation?  It seems pretty self-evident that if the movie wasn't successful, sequels would not have been made.
:I think it's the "particularly on the DVD format" bit that needs a citation. It didn't seem to be "particularly" successful on DV: given how much of a hit it was at the box office, good DVD sales were inevitable. 168.224.1.14 09:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: this statement is in the Matrix: Revisited DVD.  They approached the studio with the wanting to film a trilogy, they said "why don't you film one first."  Also, I recall seeing that The Matrix was the first dvd to sell 3 million copies. A week after the dvd went on sale, 1.8 million copies had sold, and approx 4 million dvd players were sold, close to a 1:2 ratio.[] 
At the time The Matrix went out on DVD, this was a relatively new format/technology and the Matrix was particularly successful (in relation with other releases) specially because of the features (namely: extras - bullet-time, interactive "follow the white rabbit" thingy, etc..) VdSV9•♫ 13:10, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  citations? 

message: "The cell phone used through out this film is the Nokia 8110. It is only available outside of the U.S. and its menu is in Russian."
Does this mean that the phone's menu is in Russian in the movie? Might be worth phrasing it that way for clarity.
! this is not strictly the case, as the phone is avail in the UK in english Graveenib 18:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian menu? 

message: I suggest that this article should contain only information concerning the first movie. Most sections, like 'impact', 'philosophy', 'science', as well as many external links, should be moved to the article Matrix trilogy. Compare to Star Wars (article about the saga) and Star Wars: A New Hope (article about the first movie, released as 'Star Wars') Pictureuploader 14:36, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: I moved all previous content to an archive page as a way of putting this ridiculous dispute behind us. — Phil Welch 21:38, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive 

message: :I don't think that "Matrixism" (they couldn't come up with a better name?!) is in any way valid, at least not after the trilogy was complete.  The idea of the first movie was to set up this dogmatic belief system by viewing the world of The Matrix through the eyes of the Morpheus character.  The Matrix Reloaded goes on to destroy the notion of 'The One' as a prophetic messiah, and the quest for peace becomes one of heart-ache and human suffering seen in The Matrix Revolutions - not the lean, clean "do as you're told", "cause and effect" mentality of the first two films.
If anything, The Matrix Revolutions goes to show that having faith in human nature (i.e. believing in Neo, believing in oneself, believing in those around you) is greater and more powerful than the dogmatic, Morpheus-like belief in some religious anecdote.
Those who want to use the movies as an excuse to believe that we're in a virtual world totally miss the point of the scenario being a metaphor that presents a platform on which various contemporary and relevant issues can be discussed.
"Matrixism" has no reason to exist, as its mere concept undermines the message of the entire trilogy.
Max314 19:32, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Matrixism" is Hypocritical

message: I'm all for interesting facts about the movie, but I wonder if TrojanMan's extremely long addition to this already-long article is necessary. There is also the matter that his information has some original interpretations or narrative that is more dramatic and story-like than what is needed here as information of the movie and synopsis (which was already included). It's obvious that TM worked really hard on this and I didn't want to strike it down without some consensus. It's just that the addition really has a problem fitting here, and much of this information is already available as appropriate in many other related pages. Thoughts on this? Spencerian 16:00, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed TrojanMan's addition to return the page to a smaller length. TrojanMan, the synopsis of the page already details the movie story and highlights, but interpretive aspects of the movie may not be appropriate, of which your addition added in substantial amounts. Further, the page is already longer than usual because of additional factual,cultural and interpretive insights--understandable because of the nature of the subject matter of this page. Perhaps you can add some of what you were adding to the existing elements of the page (short items). Remember that, for the purposes of this page, your source material should be from the movie, its cast or crew, news stories, and the like. Interpretation, per se, is generally done on the character pages for the Matrix trilogy--there's lots of that there. Spencerian 15:05, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  TrojanMan's recent addition 

message: I have heard there was an original story author for the first Matrix, but is never credited.  Then the Wachowskis tried to do it themselves the next 2 sequels, which is why their stories are so lame relative to the first story.  Is there any truth to this?  IMDB does not list any other author credits, afaik, but it seems hard to believe the author of the first is also the author of the last two.
:Are you thinking of Sophia Stewart? There's a section in the article that covers her lawsuit against the Wachowskis. MFNickster 21:26, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Script Authors? 

message: Just a thought... it seems a bit strange that The Matrix is listed as a cult film ("a movie that attracts a small but devoted group of fans, usually failing to achieve considerable success outside that group", from cult film) when it did $456,000,000 at the worldwide box office and is #47 of all time? It definitely inspired a lot devoted fans, but certainly not a "small" number Dze27 05:27, September 3, 2005 (UTC)
:I heartily agree. I deleted the cult film reference. SS451 00:35, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would call The Matrix a cult series, because it does have a cult following of people very obsessed with it, in the same way Star Wars is a cult series.  Sure, a lot of people have seen both, but there is a very devoted subsection of the population. Cigarette 04:43, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the sentence again, ...usually failing to achieve considerable success... So you say since it's a box-office success it can't be called a cult film? VdSV9•♫ 20:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Cult"? 

message: There is also a producer/songwriter team called "The Matrix"... they are the people behind for example Avril Lavigne.
* look up Matrix. The disambiguation page there lists that group under the "Names, acronyms and trademarks" section. Nihiltres 22:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Producer/Songwriter team called "The Matrix" 

message: The images in this page are very disappointing. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one NOT seeing agent Smith in the image with that title. Are you saying you cannot get a better picture than that?? 
And, needless to say, the Akira image is very irrelevant. Even while knowing Akira is one of the many inspirations for the movie (which means it's not important enough to get its own image here all by itself), it doesn't even show any of the scenes it says here it inspired!
Yup, these images do leave a lot to the imagination for those who'd want to see "The Matrix" by themselves... Kreachure 04:06, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed: I've remove the Akira one, and replaced the Agent Smith with one that actually has Agent Smith. Not the best, but the best I could find that was already here. Ideally, a shot from the first movie showing at least part of his suit would be better. And the "visting the Oracle" shot is very dark as well. This was a film with some great visuals: I expected to see much better (and much more) on this page myself. Turnstep 04:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the Agent Smith image back: It's a better image, while definitely lacking: Agent Smith is both shown characteristically and with glasses proper for which movie we're talking about (they change with the character). I also added the cover of Neuromancer under the Literature section to replace the missing Akira photo, which might be relevant if placed under Cinematography and captioned as a movie that influenced the cinematography of the Matrix. Nihiltres 04:28, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to disagree with both of those. The current image is a picture of a gun, with a very blurry background image that could be anyone. Certainly, it doesn't warrant the caption "Agent Smith." Also, this is an article about the Matrix, so I don't think images from other movies or books should be added to it: they belong on the Akira or Necromancer page. Not that there isn't currently *room* for the image: the article is woefully lacking in them. The famous "Neo dodging bullets" image, for example, might be nice on this page. Turnstep 13:20, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Definitely; the bullet-time image would be far more appropriate for the visual effects section than the pic from the lobby scene, which doesn't even have a decent caption at the moment ("charging bullets" indeed)! --Nick R 13:39, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images that make you go: Huh? 

message: Chernicky 01:23, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Userbox 

message: I'm not too sure right now, but I have in my mind the phrase He's... a machine, ten hours straight! after asked by Morpheus about how Neo is doing in the training. However, the article says ...6 hours of training...
I'll give it another watch to make sure before changing it if no one does it first. VdSV9•♫ 10:32, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since I was left talking to myself, I'll trust my instincts on this one. It's very clear in my mind "...ten hours straight, he's... a machine!" VdSV9•♫ 18:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Training 

message: The Matrix simulation takes place in 1999, however does time move on there (ie. 1900 - 1999)? What happens when its 2020 in the Matrix and human beings discover AI again? Would the machines allow the system to reach far in advances?
Also I'm a bit confused with the whole 'reloading' the matrix every 100 years. How were there 6 Ones, it would require 1 every 20 years.
Dude, two things: 
# Please sign your posts with three or four of these: ~
# How the 'ell did you get to one every 20 yearss? If they "reload" every 100 years it means the machines have been ruling the world for about 600 years. VdSV9•♫ 19:29, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In the other movies, they make it seem like a lot more time has passed.  Even Morpheus said that he couldn't tell Neo the exact year because they dont know--the Architect made this clear in Reloaded when he told Neo about the other iterations of The Matrix.  So it is actually possible that it has been at least 600 years Jeremys779 10:38, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

text: This is just speculation but, maybe when Neo reinserts his code as the architect suggests, it resets the matrix and goes back to...say 1960, since Neo seems to have been born in that approx time, and it's every 40 years.  This is not something ever fully explained so we can speculate on this forever Graveenib 19:36, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question regarding 1999 

message: In the reference for the "mirrors and music" section, I added an additional link to this  site. I only found it today, but it's an excellent resource for info on the music of the Matrix series. I thought it might be worth pointing out here, in case anyone wants to refer to it to expand that section or the articles on the series or the other films/games. But be warned, it's a Geocities site with lots of images, so it's likely to exceed its alotted data transfer quite frequently. --Nick RTalk 15:50, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don Davis site 

message: According to , the source of "A blinking cursor pulses in the electric darkness like a heart coursing with phosphorous light, buring beneath the derma of black-neon glass" can be found in the book "The Art of the Matrix". I don't own the book though, so I can't verify this myself... AbsolutDan 05:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if "The Art of the Matrix" contains part of the original script or the entire work, but I know that that particulat quote is in the orginal script, I wrote it myself reading from a copy of the original version. Federico Pistono ✆ ✍ 07:26, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you mind citing it in that section? Someone requested a citation for it. Thanks! AbsolutDan 14:06, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not manage to find a free online version of the original script, I have a copy of the orignal on paper, from which I cited the piece. Federico Pistono ✆ ✍ 23:50, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trace Program 

message: Is there a reference for explanation of Adams Street Bridge in the Influences and interpretations section?  I assumed it was also named after locations in downtown Chicago like the intersections: "Wabash and Lake", "State and Balbo" and "Franklin and Erie". Also I think Laurence Fishburne is saying Adams (not Adam) and the close captioning does have "Adams" -Bogsat 00:18, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adams Street Bridge 

message: ...But is there originality?
Matrix version:
A monk-like boy says "only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll realize that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."
Chan Buddhism version:
A young monk, Huineng, says (more or less): "Bodhi is no tree.  The bright mirror has no stand.  All is originally nothing. Where does the dust collect?"  Plus: Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: `The flag is moving.' 
The other said: `The wind is moving.' 
The sixth patriach [Huineng] happened to be passing by. He told them: `Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving.
So we have: Someone who looks like an enlightened young monk / An enlightened young monk. A spoon, bright, reflecting, and does not exist / A mirror, bright, reflecting, and has no stand.  The spoon does not bend, but oneself does / The flag does not move, but one's mind does.  Huh-hmph.  Of course, the Wachowskis might not have read about Huineng and the aforementioned passage (which are merely some of the most well-known things in Chan Buddhism), so this is probably, oh, just a coincidence. *wink at the Wachowskis*
Shawnc 07:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not think we can talk about originality, especially when the Wachowsky themselves declared they were very much influenced by several books and thinkers. That includes both western philosophy, but also Buddhism and other influences by Japanese animation (Ghost in the Shell above all), among the others. I personally think that the point is not whether  it was original or not, at a time like this you can hardly find ANYTHING original, but if it was wisely presented or not. Federico Pistono ✆ ✍ 08:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The "originality" comment was tongue-in-cheek; nothing is truly original. I'm a fan of the film and am merely pointing out a potential source of the scene. Shawnc 08:09, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is definitely not an original concept. In mystical Hinduism, this concept is also being followed to a much deeper level. There is a saying that everything is Brahman and only Brahman exist. The Wachowsky brothers were also influenced by Hindu ideas (this was revealed in the boxed edition of the trilogy). --Siva1979Talk to me 17:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is no spoon... 

message: The story continues, six months later, in The Matrix Reloaded.
I'm not sure that it is really six months later.  While in Reloaded they say that they have freed many minds in the past six months, they never really say that it has been six months since the last movie.  To me it seems like it has been longer...at least a year and a half (and not just because of the amount of time between movies!).  Has anyone found information either in support, or against this theory?  I did not want to edit the main page unless at least one person can support my theory.  There are probably some clues hidden in either Reloaded or The Animatrix...Jeremys779 10:42, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Movie Timeline 

message: Someone put the name Julien Denner instead of Keanu Reeves as the actor for Neo. After reading the Julien Denner page, I decided to change it back.
:Vandalism, plain n' simple. Some yutz trying to assert themselves. Tommyt 19:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Julien Denner 

message: http://media.www.slccglobelink.com/media/storage/paper442/news/2004/10/28/Entertainment/mother.Of.The.Matrix.Victorious-785067.shtml?sourcedomain=www.slccglobelink.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com
I've removed an erroneous reference referring to the Wachowskis "pinch[ing]" the "matrix" title and concept from William Gibson, since the concept had been present in science fiction for years, and the first reference to such a concept by name - "matrix" - occurred as far back as the 1950s, and has seen several uses since then. Blintz 02:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  origin of "matrix" 

message: This is something that I cannot understand. How in the first movie did Cypher arrive undetected to a meeting in the matrix with Agent Smith? There could not have been an operator to insert and/or remove him from the matrix in order to do this. Also, how come no one caught him plugging himself in? From what we see in the first two films, it is impossible for a person to get in and out of the matrix by themselves. There must be an operator of some kind to control the phone lines. Cypher could not have done this; he would have been caught. Is there any explanation for this, or is this just a mistake in the movies? -- June 30, 2006
--69.210.26.15 15:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I seem to recall this coming up in The Art of the Matrix somewhere, or perhaps in one of the making of gadgets. I think they had a similar explaination - when Neo surprises him ("scared the bejeesus out of me") he's supposed to be setting up the system for his little jaunt. Sockatume 01:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cypher's Meeting with Agent Smith 

message: http://www.daghettotymz.com/matrix/matrix.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_Stewart
Sophia Stewart needs to be added to this article
:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix#Sophia_Stewart_legal_case. It is already in the article. Konman72 03:22, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sophia stewart mother of the matrix 

message: Hello, could you add Catalan language link. You can see it at:
http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix
:Done, thanks. toresbe 03:01, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catalan link 

message: :The success of The Matrix, particularly on the DVD format, led to two sequels. The Matrix Reloaded and The Matrix Revolutions were filmed simultaneously during one shoot, and released in two parts in 2003. They see an evolution in many concepts laid down by the original film: philosophical parallels, religious allegories, and an expanded scope to talk about issues pertaining to consciousness. The first movie's relatively plot-lite introductory tale is replaced by a more involved story centred on the impending attack of the human enclave of Zion by a vast machine army. Neo also learns more about the history of the Matrix, his role as the One and the prophecy that he will end the war. The sequels also incorporate longer and more ambitious action scenes, as well as improvements in bullet time and other visual effects. Although the sequels provided closure for the characters and the storyline while still incorporating the themes of the original movie, they were less well-received than the first.
Should this be on the first movie page?  Shouldn't this information be under matrix series? This is a good synopsis, but I don't think it is appropriate here. Graveenib 20:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Perhaps some of it should be left behind, like its success on DVD and leading to sequels, but the whole part about the sequels should be in the series article. Konman72 21:34, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impact 

message: I'm adding a link to Matrixism in the Religion/philosophy/theory of The Matrix section because the Matrixism stub on wikipedia re-directs here. 71.133.171.214 19:12, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We've been through this on multiple pages.  Your linking of the geocities link is considered linkspam, and will be removed.  The fact that the word "matrixism" is a redirect to "The Matrix" has nothing to do with the supposed religion on the Geocities site. -- Jeff3000 19:26, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Sure it does. If you look at the history of it. If wikipedia want's to avoid confusion why have the re-direct at all? 71.133.168.151 01:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Really?  So why does the geocities link appear on Wikipedia:Most vandalized pages for this page.  By an overwhelming consensus, it is considered linkspam.  -- Jeff3000 01:51, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The reason to have a redirect instead of an article is that the topic is not considered notable enough for mention.  Kasreyn 06:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It does seem reason enough to have an external link. Wouldn't that serve Wikipedia users better? What standard does Matrixism not meet such that there shouldn't be an external link? 69.239.30.213 16:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Self-promotion (see WP:WWIN#Wikipedia is not a soapbox), and adding your own webpages, (see WP:EL) -- Jeff3000 16:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not a valid argument as Matrixism is not my webpage. 69.239.30.213 17:29, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your behaviour does not indicate it as such.  You have very much tried to include the link on many pages, and thus WP:WWIN#Wikipedia is not a soapbox easily applies.  -- Jeff3000 17:44, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I went over to the page on "Internet and Religion" because someone one in this discussion asked me to. I am not using Wikipedia as a soap box. I have been drawn into this because people are holding Matrixism up to unreasonable standards that they do not apply to other religions on Wikipedia. My motivation is that something unjust is happening here and that bothers me. Like I said before I am not a "Matrixist" and Matrixism is not my webpage. 71.133.168.221 18:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are not a Matrixist, then be detached from the very large consensus that the Geocities link will not be accepted as an External link in this page, or other pages. -- Jeff3000 18:19, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there was a valid argument as to not including the link I would. As has been said before there are at least five verifiable reputable references for Matrixism and Wikipedia itself has a re-direct for Matrixism that leads here. I would argue that you and others are the one's who are baised and should approach this entry more objectively. 71.133.168.221 18:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So everybody else is wrong, and you are right?  I'm not going to comment on this any further.  I think it is very clear what the consensus is. -- Jeff3000 18:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that there is a consensus of people with a bias towards squelching this particular religion. Many Christians use The Matrix movies as a means to protelytize their own religion. Many Chrisitians and others lable all new religions cults as they see them as direct threats. Further Baha'is and Muslims seem to see Matrixism as threat because it recognizes a revelation that is subsequent to their own. I am sure that if all of these religious groups did not see The Matrix as important religious capital Matrixism would long ago have been listed here on Wikipedia. 71.133.168.221 18:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I would like to note, as I have at Talk:List of religions, that of these sources, one is an unreliable tabloid, one (the Sydney Morning Herald link) is merely reporting (and rather skeptically I might add) on Possamai's book, and two of the others are by the same author.  This does not put forward a compelling case for the notability of this religion.  Kasreyn 02:50, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia itself re-directs for the term "Matrixism" right to the external links marked "Religion/philosophy/theory of The Matrix". This re-direct was created at a time when there was an external link to Matrixism here. It doesn't make any sense to the service of Wikipedia's users to not have that link here.This is after all an external link. I don't think that it has to pass the notability muster that you imply here. Again it is just an external link. 71.139.66.157 18:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we could also add an external link to every single page that mentions anything about The Matrix.  Look, it comes down to this:  A geocities page with no reputable sources backing it up doesn't deserve an external link, even if it delves on a subject that has reputable sources.  If this geocities website is featured on NPR or CNN, it may deserve what you are seeking. If you are not a Matrixist then why are you so adament about linkspamming?  This I would like to know.  Why aren't you pushing for my matrix page on lycos to be an external link?  Because it doesn't belong here.  You're right about one thing.  It is stupid to have the article for Matrixism redirect to the external links section here if there is no link.  I suggest deleting the Matrixims article.  Then there is no confusion.  Graveenib 00:35, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't feel it's a problem. People looking for "Matrixism" will find several notable links on the religious and philosophical underpinnings of the Matrix movies. It works for me.--Rosicrucian 15:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I could invent a new religion called 'Steven Seagalism' based on the philosophy found in Steven Seagal movies one night, but that wouldn't make it notable. Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day. --Joffeloff 13:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If 'Steven Seagalism' gained followers, was referenced in books on religions, if it was a topic at academic conferences and in university classrooms and if it had been mentioned in various newspapers I think that it would then be considered notable. Matrixism has done all of that.
It seems that some people here are trying to characterize Matrixism as the work of one person and a fictional religion that has no following. To me this seems like an unreasonable conjecture. Just the fact that Matrixism comes up with such a high ranking for internet searches and has been mentioned in various publications suggest that a large number of people have visited its website. If religions like Jediism are any indication Matrixism has in all likelyhood truly gained the relatively meager following that is claimed on their website. 68.127.234.26 18:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Nonsense.  It is widely accepted that the majority of those involved in the Jedi census movement were in it for humor value.  There is no indication that any but a vanishingly small minority of those respondents actually practise any sort of religion based on Jediism.  Also, a lot of people visiting a website does not mean the site's purported religion has a lot of believers.  For all we know, all those visitors came to point and laugh.  It could be argued that that makes Matrixism notable; depends on one's opinion on whether hit tracking is a good way to determine notability.  But what it doesn't do is show that a lot of people actually believe in Matrixism.  Kasreyn 20:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with your characterization of the Jedi religion. The genuine following does not appear to vanishing but rather seem to be becoming more entreched in their belief. I believe an institute for the study of Jediism was created in Romania recently. With regard to the number of followers of Matrixism it is of course hard to prove Matrixism being an internet based religion and all. However judging from what is happening with the Jedi religion movement the numbers presented as they are on the Matrixism website (number of people who signed up as opposed to hardcore activists) seems probable. 69.239.31.56 03:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Stop readding the link, and reusing the same arguments that you've rehashed many times over.  Think link will be deleted each time.  -- Jeff3000 07:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-Direct from Matrixism 

message: Anonymous user 24.0.201.234 added the following text to the "to-do" list:
Under influences please give due credit to the 1985 "Max Headroom - 20 Minutes into the Future" - which includes a bleak urban wasteland setting in the future, a controller sitting in front of numerous CRT's directing Edison Carter with voice commands as he tries to avoid being captured throughout a high rise building, controller telling him when to cross doorways, hiding from agents, "blanks" (those rare humans that have unplugged from the system) and even a "Matrix" for gaining access to Bryce's lab.
I have removed this, because... well, if we were to include everything that has been mentioned over the last 7 years when people have confidently said "The Matrix ripped off..." then the article would be at least twice as long as it is now. :) The film does reuse lots of elements that had previously been used many sci-fi stories for a long time before the film; it's not worth listing every one of them. I mean, the first time I came across a sci-fi story in which someone instantly learned something by connecting their mind to a computer was in an episode of Bugs - in fact, they were using it to learn how to fly an aircraft! Do you think that should be included too? 
My point is that most of the sci-fi concepts (as well as other elements, like the visual style) in The Matrix had been around for many years, being used and re-used in many tales long before the Wachowskis arrived and brought them together into an extremely successful film. You could probably refer to hundreds of sci-fi works produced over the last 50 years and describe them in such a way that every single one of them could have been the inspiration for The Matrix.
So obviously we can't list everything that people want to add. There's bound to be a lot of people adding their own personal favourites to the list, and a lot of arguments when they're removed, so we ought to come up with a guideline for which ones should be listed, both on this page and The Matrix series, which contains the majority of the discussion on the films' influences.
While writing this comment I did begin working out a big list of criteria  based on who had noted it as an influence on the film (e.g. something mentioned in the film itself or cited by a member of the crew would have priority over everything else), before going on to propose a restructuring of the article to make it more similar to featured film articles. But since I originally only posted to justify the removal of that bit from the to-do list, I'll stop here. :) Maybe I'll get around to posting the other suggestions soon... --Nick RTalk 22:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal from "to-do" list 

message: User:Iondream recently copied the entirety of the "Influences and interpretations" section across from The Matrix series. While this section does need many improvements, I don't feel that directly copying all that across is the best way to do that. Reasons:
# The Matrix series article can discuss the other entries in the series, but this one is mainly limited to the first film.
# Keeping two large identical texts both up-to-date can be quite a task when changes are being made to each. IMO it's better to make them different - keep this one fairly short, and use the "main articles" template to point people to the more extensive discussion. (Is a detailed comparison with The Invisibles really necessary? A brief mention that people have noted that there are similarities is enough for this page.)
# While hardly up to featured article standard, I feel that the text of the "Influences" section on this page is generally better than the equivalent section in "The Matrix series" - more concise and focused. I think adding that sprawling section from the other page weakens this one.
Incorporating relevant information from other pages can be very good - but simply copying long passages across might not be. So because of that, I've changed it back. --Nick RTalk 22:02, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed --Graveenib 22:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed text from influences section 

message: I think this is a significant fact: Keanu Reeves portrayed the spiritual teacher "The Buddha" in the American film "The Little Buddha." 
In "The Little Buddha," Reeves is a religious figure who, among many things, acheives enlightenment and defeates Maya(illusion). 
While watching "The Little Buddha" I remember seeing special effects that were again repeated in "The Matrix" (See the scene where the "buddha" obtains enlightenment. Compare this to the ending scene in the Matrix, where Neo discovers he is beyond the rules of the Matrix, and is able to see through the Matrix's illusion...both scenes are very similar...is the Little Buddha being alluded to?)
2c me 01:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: is the Little Buddha being alluded to? Good question.  If you can find the answer from a reputable source than yes go ahead and add it and cite your source.  At this point, however, it's just original research.  Thank you for using the talk page first. --Graveenib 01:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: hmm... this site is user created, so anyone can post to it.  Not sure if this is enough to qualify as encyclopedic content since this is merely a coincidence untill the wachowskis acknowledge a connection. --Graveenib 23:53, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just suggesting ways of incorporating this into the article... the introductory sentence of the "Influences and interpretations" section ends, "...including Messianism, Buddhism and Gnosticism." You might want to simply add this article as a footnote (using <ref> tags) after the second in that list. You could note the link to Keanu Reeves's previous role either in that footnote itself, or you could incorporate it into the main text. (Only briefly, IMO.) Also, it could be noted in an appropriate place in the article The Matrix series, which also talks about the series' references and influences. --Nick RTalk 23:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add Under Trivia Section: Keanu Reeves also plays "the Buddha" in the movie "The Little Buddha" 

message: Perhaps there are enough books (solely about the Matrix) to justify a section on books seperate from a section on articles.--Darrelljon 14:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books 

message: "In the first scene we see a green cursor blinking on a black screen. In this first metaphor is hidden the most profound meaning of the entire film, a living machine, the duality of human and Artificial Intelligence."
I believe that most interpretations of The Matrix here take it too literally. "the most profound meaning of the entire film" is nothing to do with machines or artificial intelligence. It is a representation of our current society, in which our governments shield us from the reality (e.g. wars) outside so that we provide a source of energy/processing power for the nation to function. I don't have any sources for this interpretation but some must exist. I am sure this is the main point that the Wachowskis are trying to get across, V for Vendetta is a much less subtle version of the same message. Their use of Rage Against The Machine also seems to support this. Did anyone else interpret the film this way? Kernow 14:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I think the sentence you cited is just J. Random Editor's opinion and not worth including.  Original research; kill it.  Kasreyn 21:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, but I guess what I am saying is I believe this is the major theme of the film and we need to find a source to represent it. Kernow 17:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I objected to this section when it was first added (see above: Talk:The Matrix#Removed "Symbolism" section), but though I've been uncomfortable with it since, I haven't removed it. But I think it's time for it to go: original research, and the word "profound" seems a bit excessive and non-NPOV to me: that tiny paragraph really doesn't make clear what exactly is profound about it. As for your own interpretation, Kernow, I don't really see how it's related to what's already written in that section, and to be honest your brief description sounds like original research to me. Even with links to reviews and essays and things, I think that adding subjective interpretations to an article like this is always going to be difficult, which is why I'm going to try and reduce that a bit (see above). --Nick RTalk 19:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

text: the images of neo on the screans were not of the pervious "ones" but of all possible reactions that neo could have had to what ever the architect was saying.--Manwithbrisk 23:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of The Matrix 

message: as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Films/archive4#Infobox_IMDb_rating
Z3u2 06:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  IMDB rating removed 

message: As created by Bignole and additional edits by me:
The film begins with Trinity escaping from police and a group of Agents. Later, computer programmer Thomas A. Anderson, an internet hacker known as "Neo", is searching for “the Matrix”. After a cryptic message on his computer, he travels to a nightclub where he meets Trinity. Neo believes that a hacker named Morpheus is the key to answering the question of “what is the Matrix?” The next morning, Neo receives a call from Morpheus. He informs Neo that he must leave his building, quickly and quietly, or he will be apprehended by several government-looking officials. Despite Morpheus' guidance, Neo is apprehended by the Agents. Neo wakes up in his bed believing it all to be a dream. Morpheus calls and informs him there is a car waiting to take him to a secure place so they can meet face-to-face. 
Morpheus explains that he has been searching for Neo his entire life, and informs him that the Matrix is what Neo considers to be reality. He offers Neo a choice to leave the Matrix (via a blue pill) or see the real world (a red pill). Neo accepts the red pill, and soon finds himself inside a liquid-filled chamber connected by several wires. As the connections are severed, he is flushed into a pool of waste water. Morpheus, in his ship the “Nebuchadnezzar”, rescues Neo. After Neo recuperates, Morpheus explains the truth about the Matrix to Neo. The actual year is approximately 2199. Early in the 21st century mankind created artificially intelligent machines, however war broke out. In a desperate attempt to cut off the machines' supply of solar power, the sky was blacked out. The machines nevertheless emerged victorious, and turned humans into a new source of energy. Morpheus and Trinity are part of a group of free humans who "unplug" other humans from the Matrix and recruit them to their resistance against the machines. Morpheus believes that Neo is "the One", a man with limitless control over the Matrix. He was prophesied by the Oracle to "hail the destruction of the Matrix, end the war, bring freedom to our people". 
On board the “Nebuchadnezzar”, Neo meets the rest of the crew, Apok, Switch, Mouse, Cypher, Tank, and Dozer. Neo undergoes training where he is digitally downloaded with knowledge inside the Matrix. Over a ten hour period, he learns several forms of martial arts. Morpheus tries to test Neo, and the two spar inside an environment similar to the Matrix. Morpheus uses this time to teach Neo that the rules of the Matrix can be bent, or even broken by mental effort. Through further training, Neo learns that injuries suffered inside the Matrix are reflected in the real world. He also learns that the Matrix is policed by Agents similar to those who arrested him. The Agents are sentient programs whose purpose is to eliminate any threats within the Matrix. They have the ability to possess anyone still plugged into the Matrix. Once Neo fully understands the true nature of the Matrix, the Agents will not be able to stop him. 
Morpheus and his group enter the Matrix so Neo can meet the Oracle. During his private meeting with her, she reveals that Morpheus believes in Neo so blindly that he will sacrifice himself to save Neo's life. Neo will have to choose between his life and that of Morpheus'. When the group attempts to exit the Matrix they are ambushed by several Agents. Morpheus is captured when he sacrifices himself to save Neo. Cypher is the first to exit the Matrix, and is soon revealed to be the saboteur of the group. Having struck a deal with the Agents, Cypher proceeds to unplug everyone while they are still inside the Matrix. Tank survives Cypher’s attack and kills him before he can unplug Neo and Trinity. Three Agents interrogate Morpheus, in an attempt to learn the access codes to the mainframe of Zion, the human’s last city. Neo and Trinity begin staging a rescue attempt for Morpheus. Arriving at the Agents’ headquarters, a massive gunfight ensues, leaving most of the lobby in ruins. On the roof, Neo shows more confidence in Morpheus’ belief when he dodges several bullets fired by an Agent. They use a helicopter to attack the interrogation room and rescue Morpheus. In an abandoned subway station, Morpheus and Trinity exit the Matrix. However, the phone being used to exit is destroyed by Agent Smith. Neo stands his ground, and the two erupt into combat. Neo flees the subway, after Agent Smith is hit by a train, and prepares to find another exit. 
Tank attempts to guide him to the nearest exit as Sentinels (attack robots) locate the “Nebuchadnezzar’s” position in the real world. The crew’s only weapon is an electromagnetic pulse device that can only be used when no one is plugged into the Matrix. Tank guides Neo towards an "old exit", but Smith is already waiting. He shoots Neo dead. As Trinity whispers to Neo that she is in love with him, his heart begins to beat. Within the Matrix he stands up; the Agents shoot at him, but he stops their bullets in mid-air. As they fall to the ground, Neo sees the artificial Matrix as lines of streaming green code: he finally becomes "the One". Agent Smith makes one last attempt to physically attack him, but Neo effortlessly blocks his punches with one hand. He then kills Agent Smith and returns to the real world barely in time for the ship's electromagnetic pulse to destroy the Sentinels. The denouement has him flying off into the air following a threat to the machines via the phone.
Wiki-newbie 19:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Shorter sypnosis (please review)

message: This page comes under frequent attack from The Matrixism linkspamming vandal, who often operates under a set of dynamic IP addresses. Remedies include semi-protection and blocking. This vandal will try and argue for the legitimacy of this link on this talk page, but this is a long-settled issue.
Please refer to the following:
*Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Matrixism
*Talk:The_Matrix/Archive#RfC
**There was also an RfC for this issue that I am unable to find, but the above link refers to it
*Wikipedia:Redirects_for_deletion/Precedents/Deleted#Matrixism
*and of course the talk archives for this page, Talk:New religious movement, and Talk:List of religions
Philwelch 22:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Important note—do not archive