Talk:Grand Tour (cycling)

message: A Grand Tour Category could be useful --Skyleth 12:27, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: comments

message: Is "Giri." You wouldn't say "paparazzos," would you?
Tonkov continued to race at a high level for several seasons. He was second in the 1997 and 1998 Giri d’Italia, 
Nonetheless, you simply don’t win two Giri d’Italia by only being a solid climber and a lucky rider. 
Though not a prolific winner, the farmer and donkey owner has amassed two stage wins and a 3rd-place overall finish in the past two Giri d'Italia. 
Hmm? Nosleep break my slumber 15:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Paparazzi is borrowed as a plural, but giro is not, and the English plural morpheme is -s. As a rule, borrowings are pluralized according to the rules of the borrowing language. Giri seems a hypercorrection to me. Zwart (talk) 15:49, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

text: I'm very sorry, I hadn't noticed that these were examples, and I also hadn't recognized the signature (it being colored and all). No offense intended. I've restored them above. If it is your impression that Giri is standard usage, then we should keep it that way. Personally I think Giri d'Italia is even weirder, I would prefer Giro d'Italias. To illustrate my point, think of the plural of foreign words like fjord (from Norwegian), sovjet (from Russian), yacht (from Dutch), etc. All these are pluralized according to English grammar, not according to the grammar of the language of origin. Zwart (talk) 20:54, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In the phrase Grand Tour, we are using grand in its French, rather than its English, sense.  Should this article therefore be called Grands Tours? We might not use paparazzos, but we do not use the singulars paparazzo, spagghetto or scampo either, so I'm not sure that that line of reasoning bears any weight.  Two of the cycling publications you cite also use Giros: Daily Peloton and Cycling news, and so do heavyweight publications (although not cycling specialists) such as Time and The Independent.  So appeal to RS seems indecisive.  Looks like a stadium/stadia type issue: hard to say that either is incorrect, but desirable that we have consistency at least within an article.  My preference, for reasons given above by Zwart, would be for Giros.  Kevin McE (talk) 08:54, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "Giri d'Italia" and "Giros d'Italia" seem to be of roughly equivalent usage. I unequivocally do not want "Giro d'Italias" (and this is straight up English - you wouldn't say "hall of fames," would you?), but beyond that, this isn't anything I'm interested in fighting about. Nosleep break my slumber 17:40, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

text: It depends on what you're pluralizing: Giro or Giro d'Italia. For example, you don't say two Albertos Contador but two Alberto Contadors, because you're taking Alberto Contador to be a unit. Anyway, I'll change back to Giros and see how well it holds up.Zwart (talk) 20:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there aren't two Alberto Contadors, but there are plenty of Giri d'Italia ;) I guess I don't feel as strongly about this as I thought I did. Nosleep break my slumber 03:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The plural of Giro 

message: Erik Zabel never won any stages in the Giro, so the statistics as they are currently presented in the table (21 Giro stage victories) are incorrect. Wenkbrauwalbatros (talk) 20:43, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Erik Zabel Grand Tour Stage Wins 

message: Binda has won 41 stages in Giro d'Italia. In this section it is written that he won 42 stages. --Mystère Martin (talk) 10:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alfredo Binda 

message: I'd like to add this new section but I'd need help to do it. Or I can supply the data for an expert to do. Eduardo Chozas (ES) deserves recognition for his 27 participations and 26 finishes (in the '84 Vuelta he failed to complete the final stage), along with other notable cyclists in this category. EdX20 (talk) 18:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most Grand Tour Participations and Finishes 

message: I'd like to add this information. Can anybody help me?:
MOST PODIUMS ON ALL THE GRAND TOURS
======================TOUR====GIRO====VUELTA==========TOTAL=======
Jacques Anquetil	6	6	1		13
Bernard Hinault		7	3	2		12
Eddy Merckx		6	5	1		12
Felice Gimondi		2	9	1		12
Raymond Poulidor	8	0	2		10
Gino Bartali		3	7	0		10
Miguel Induráin		5	3	1		 9
Fausto Coppi		2	7	0		 9
Lance Armstrong		8	0	0		 8
Pedro Delgado		3	0	5		 8
Joop Zoetemelk		7	0	1		 8
CYCLISTS WHO REACHED PODIUM ON ALL THE GRAND TOURS
======================TOUR====GIRO====VUELTA==========TOTAL=======
Jacques Anquetil	6	6	1		13
Bernard Hinault		7	3	2		12
Eddy Merckx		6	5	1		12
Felice Gimondi		2	9	1		12
Miguel Induráin		5	3	1		 9
Laurent Fignon		3	2	1		 6
Carlos Sastre		2	1	3		 6
Toni Rominger		1	1	4		 6
Alberto Contador	2	1	2		 5
Denís Menchov		2	1	2		 5
Jose Manuel Fuente	1	1	2		 4
Vincenzo Nibali		1	2	1		 4
Herman Van Springel	1	1	1		 3
MOST PODIUMS ON TOUR DE FRANCE
========================1º======2º======3º============TOTAL=======
Lance Armstrong*	7	0	1		8
Raymond Poulidor	0	3	5		8
Bernard Hinault		5	2	0		7
Joop Zoetemelk		1	6	0		7
Eddy Merckx		5	1	0		6
Jacques Anquetil	5	0	1		6
Jan Ullrich		1	5	0		6
Gustave Garrigou	1	3	2		6
Miguel Induráin		5	0	0		5
Greg LeMond		3	1	1		5
Louison Bobet		3	0	1		4
Nicolás Frantz		2	2	0		4
Antonin Magne		2	1	1		4
Jean Alavoine		0	2	2		4
MOST PODIUMS ON GIRO D'ITALIA
========================1º======2º======3º============TOTAL=======
Felice Gimondi		3	2	4		9
Fausto Coppi		5	2	0		7
Gino Bartali		3	4	0		7
Gilberto Simoni		2	1	4		7
Alfredo Binda		5	1	0		6
Giovanni Brunero	3	2	1		6
Francesco Moser		1	3	2		6
Eddy Merckx		5	0	0		5
Fiorenzo Magni		3	2	0		5
Giuseppe Saronni	2	1	1		4
Charly Gaul		2	0	2		4
Italo Zilioli		0	3	1		4
Bartolomeo Aimo		0	1	3		4
MOST PODIUMS ON VUELTA A ESPAÑA
========================1º======2º======3º============TOTAL=======
Roberto Heras		3	1	1		5
Pedro Delgado		2	1	2		5
Luis Ocaña		1	3	1		5
Tony Rominger		3	0	1		4
Julián Berrendero	2	2	0		4
Alejandro Valverde	1	2	1		4
José Pérez-Francés	0	2	2		4
Miguel María Lasa	0	2	2		4
Alex Zülle		2	1	0		3
Marino Lejarreta	1	1	1		3
Reimund Dietzen		0	2	1		3
— Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertCS (talk • contribs) 19:20, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Podium records 

message: According to his Wikipedia page, he won 8 stages of the Tour and another 8 in the Giro, so 16 overall.  Shouldn't he be in the most stage wins list therefore?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.25.55.5 (talk) 12:04, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Pantani stage wins

message: Shouldn't the table list who was declared winner of the Tours when Armstrong wasn't listed? and the table of top totals winners, Armstrong should be listed and crossed out because the Tour now resumes listing him but crossed out. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 07:16, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Not listing him at all makes this article kind of a joke. Everyone knows he's GOAT and everyone knows that all of the top cyclists were on gear when he raced, before he raced, and still to this day. 99.240.76.148 (talk) 05:59, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armstrong 

message: Whie no rider has won all three in a calendar year, 
Anquetil and Merx have held all three jerseys - Anquetil winning four tours in a row.
Shoud we highlight this.
:: I would agree it should be added! Additionally with regards to Anquetil he wasnt referenced in the most consecutive winners section. Additionally, Merx only won 3 in a row not 4 unless the statistics above wrong/misleading as the giro tour and vuelta were not always in the same order. I am going to try to go figure out the dates involved to verify.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Salestron (talk • contribs) 15:46, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Serena slam" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Add section about women equivalent. Which races were considered part of GT (and during what period), what was their categorization ....
*Giro d'Italia Femminile  
*Tour de l'Aude Cycliste Féminin
*Grande Boucle Féminine Internationale (two races were overlapping for 2 years - which was considered GT race) 
This current article should have title "Men's GT", as it only is about men even though there is Women's GT.
 213.149.61.164 (talk) 19:48, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Women's Grand Tour 

message: List of those who won all 3 GT races in a year. 213.149.62.46 (talk) 13:30, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: No-one ever has: I very much doubt that anyone ever will. Kevin McE (talk) 10:43, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Complete sweep 

message: :::In light of the above - how's this for the lead? Provides a little more context about the history of the women's events.
:::The three Grand Tours are men's events, and as of 2022, no three week races currently exist on the women's road cycling circuit. The Giro Donne and the Tour de France Femmes are sometimes considered to be equivalent races for women - taking place over shorter, smaller routes around a week in length. The Giro Donne was first held in 1988, and various women's Tour de France events have taken place since 1984 - with the Tour de France Femmes having its first edition in 2022.
:::You could then have this information in a subheading including a short discussion about the phrase Grand Tour - something like:
:::As of 2022, no three week races currently exist on the women's road cycling circuit. Historically, women have participated in three week long stages races, with various women's Tour de France events taking place since 1984. In the contemporary UCI Women's World Tour, the Giro Donne (first held in 1988) and the Tour de France Femmes (first held in 2022) are sometimes considered to be equivalent races for women - taking place over shorter, smaller routes around a week in length. The Giro Donne is generally run in late June / early July and the Tour de France Femmes is held in late July following the men's Tour de France.
:::Some media and teams have referred to these women's events as Grand Tours, as they are the biggest events in the women's calendar. However, they are not three week stage races, they do not have a special status in the rules and regulations of cycling (such as more points in the UCI Women's World Tour, or allowing an increased number of stages), and some have argued that the races need to visit high mountains (such as the Alps) or contain a time trial to be considered an equivalent event.
:::Campaign groups such as Le Tour Entier and Cyclists Alliance continue to push organisers and the UCI to allow for longer stage races, as well as to improve the quality and economic stability of the women's peloton to allow for three week long races in future. In May 2023, the Challenge by La Vuelta stage race will increase in length to 7 days, and be renamed 'La Vuelta Femenina'.
 
::: Not sure where the La Vuelta Femenina bit fits best in that paragraph, but hey. I think this is a reasonable balance section, given what you've said above - covering a brief history, why they are/are not considered Grand Tour events etc  Turini2 (talk) 08:24, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attempt at a new lead / subsection II 

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