Talk:Telekinesis/Archive 4

message: Archive 3 has been created with a link at above right. Archive 4, when needed in the future, should be a new subpage (same as creating an article) titled "Talk:Psychokinesis/Archive_4" and the link added to the template on this page's code. For further information on archiving see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page. There are also Step-by-Step Instructions - Archiving a Talk Page on my personal User Page. Thank you. 5Q5 19:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk Page Archive

message: Does sonic the hedgehog really need to be added to the See also bit? seems kind of unnecessary.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.52.206.237 (talk) 07:55, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed it (it was Silver the Hedgehog, not Sonic). Thanks for spotting it. "See also" is not for fictional entries; otherwise, there could be hundreds listed. Whoever included it should submit it, if PK related, to the webmaster of the offsite Cultural References List in the External Links. 5Q5 17:51, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic the hedgehog 

message: I'm not in favor of this article being tagged at the bottom with the "Pseudoscience" label, but since the word is mentioned in the article in the quote (which I placed) by Carl Sagan, I guess that might technically qualify as justification. This article was given the label once before and an editor removed it. "Pseudoscience" is an invented point-of-view insult term with a long history of use by certain types of skeptics. I am a long-time member of a skeptics organization and I would never use it as such. The study of psychokinesis is included in parapsychology, which is a recognized science. If any editor feels more strongly about the label's affect on the article and wants to do a vote here to Keep or Remove, I would certainly add my vote to remove. 5Q5 17:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put in some findings of fact here on that topic, in case you want to add anything further in this ArbCom.  Otherwise, I doubt there is anything you can do about it. ——Martinphi    ☎ Ψ Φ—— 06:32, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that "pseudoscience" is a useful term when describing things like astrology and the reading of tea leaves, but PK is not like those, as those are not legitimate research subjects of parapsychology, a recognized science (recognized as a legitimate science even by James Randi: "parapsychology, a legitimate investigative science" -- James Randi, Swift commentary, Sep 19, 2003 / Google that quote). PK could fall into the category of being a fringe science, also a category on Wikipedia, but not yet a protoscience. Amateurs do PK research, so have scientists, even for the U.S. government. Amateurs do experiments in electricity and magnetism, yet no one labels those a pseudoscience to cover the amateur participation. I think you're right, though, about the category label sticking to this article. I don't think it's accurate though. 5Q5 15:42, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And why don't any of my fellow skeptics organziation members here on Wikipedia put the pseudoscience category label at the bottom of the Theoretical physics article? That article includes the word "pseudoscience" (scroll down to fringe theories section) in the context of some theories falling into that group. Could it be that I'm right; it's being used selectively by hard-liners to denigrate certain topics and not applied fairly to all? This will be my last comment on this. The PK article is so large that I don't think people notice the bottom categories anyway. 5Q5 16:26, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The pseudoscience label is applied to topics which are considered pseudoscientific or have aspects that are pseudoscientific. Just including the word itself in the article isn't all that illuminating for categorization. ScienceApologist 17:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pseudoscience category label

message: The movie poster The Medusa Touch was deleted in the past 24 hours from this PK article and The Medusa Touch (film) by a Wikibot created by a student editor named Betacommand. The individual who originally uploaded it to Wikipedia earlier this year was an editor named Films addicted. Apparently the fair use rationale template was not filled out properly and a bot detected it and deleted the image along with a long list of other movie posters uploaded by Films addicted. Movie posters qualify for fair use because they are used in connection with criticism (noncommercial discussion) of the movie and other movie articles have them. I am not familiar with the image uploading/template side of Wikipedia and Films addicted hasn't done any editing in months. Is there an editor who can properly reupload the movie poster and fill in the template so we can get it back in this article? This does not appear to be vandalism, just a Wikibot detecting incomplete information in a template. Here is where you can find the image: http://www.answers.com/topic/49244-1020-a-jpg (that is a web page, not just the file location). If we can't get The Medusa Touch back, I'll have to go with the poster for Phenomenon instead. I'd prefer The Medusa Touch because it has the word "Telekinesis" on it and it's a 30-year-old film (as I write this), so it looks better in the article from a historical perspective. 5Q5 16:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I figured it out and will reupload The Medusa Touch poster soon with the proper information. 5Q5 18:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Correction: Actually it seems the Wikibot did not do the actual deleting of The Medusa Touch poster image. That was done by user Maxim (talk) | (contribs) as recorded on this log page on 12 April 2007 This user (an admin?) has deleted other images, so it appears not to be anti-parapsychological targeting. I will try to reupload the image with hopefully more complete information. 5Q5 16:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just finished restoring The Medusa Touch poster to both the film's article and this PK article. My first ever image upload to Wikipedia. Let's hope I did it correctly. 5Q5 18:04, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The poster image didn't last one day in the article before a hard-line skeptical editor named Antelan removed it : 10 November 2007: "Rm. Fair use allows copyrighted posters to be used on articles critically evaluating the movie or the poster itself, not for illustration purposes." I give up. Before I considered using it I checked numerous other examples of film poster use on Wikipedia. Will this editor go after those. Of course not, and I'm not going to supply the names of the articles here. Technically, nearly all the movie articles on Wikipedia that have posters do not offer critical discussion of the poster itself and the use is only for "illustration." I challenge Antelan to begin removing all the film posters on Wikipedia; otherwise, this is anti-parapsychological targeting. 5Q5 22:32, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to reread the fair use documents. This is a personal slam against me, but I'm not the one who didn't read the rules. Antelan talk 23:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Sorry. I did read the rules. I chose The Medusa Touch poster because it has the word "Telekinesis" prominently on it and therefore was relevant to the critical discussion of TK in popular culture. I changed the caption to indicate it was a "film poster" as opposed to just giving the title and plot. Maybe I could have included additional discussion of the poster itself and that was my fault and the article paid the price. I know you want to be fair, so how about going after the article James Bond, where a film poster is used? That's just one example I could point to. Thanks. 5Q5 22:32, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't plan on making WP:POINT edits on your behalf. This is the second time you have made such a suggestion, and it is really not appropriate. Antelan talk 22:35, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 5Q5, it is never helpful to make personal references to individual editors or their motives. I understand from what you've written, why you put the poster in, but Atelan is right about fair use. The poster simply does not fit for a number of reasons - including any relevance to the text it is placed near. We welcome your contributions, and I am sure you only tried to help improve the article and Atelan is doing the same. Please assume good faith regarding this editor or any editor in the future. --Northmeister 01:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I apologize if I offended anyone. I am only an occasional editor here on Wikipedia and my aspiration actually is to become less active in the future, not more. 5Q5 16:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone reupload the Medusa Touch movie poster to Wiki?

message: Since there are exactly zero parapsychology academic departments in mainstream universities, calling parapsychology a "field" is a misnomer. It has historical import as a field of inquiry up to the early part of the last century, but since then psychology has moved well-beyond this sort of phrasing.
I also made it clear that publication bias is often the explanation for any positive results. Negative results simply are not interesting enough for acceptance.
Finally, I pointed out that the psychokinesis seen in the movies is usually a result of magical characters.
ScienceApologist 22:15, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The positive-negative biases you're talking about are certainly hugely important. In academic medicine, where lives are figuratively on the line (they don't actually line up patients...) the trend is now to try to publish studies regardless of results in order to avoid that very problem. Of course, that hasn't eliminated publication bias, but it's a recognition at least that this is a huge point. Antelan talk 00:09, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, so maybe they are technically "sub-departments," not full departments. Here's one currently at a mainstream university that I found: University of Edinburgh Koestler Parapsychology Unit 5Q5 18:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As is being pointed out at Talk:Parapsychology, the British are more accepting of parapsychology since certain investigators end up in psychology departments (for example). However, this still doesn't address the issue that the subject is much maligned and marginalized in academia in general. ScienceApologist 19:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a matter of sources.  What are yours? ——Martinphi    ☎ Ψ Φ—— 22:50, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Parapsychology. ScienceApologist 17:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Some slight changes

message: Doesn't BioShock deserve some attention?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.166.251.105 (talk) 09:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not familiar with this term, but if is fiction related, submit it to the webmaster of the offsite cultural references list available through the external links. 5Q5 16:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BioShock 

message: The list in the box below are all prominent organizations with members in academic fields that have journals or other publications that report research or developments in psychokinesis. I contributed this list and it has been in the article without complaint for perhaps up to a year, but recently I deleted it in deference to another editor who felt it was not relevant enough. I'm having second thoughts now. I've seen other science-related articles on Wikipedia that give organizations in external links. Anybody else agree we should restore this list? I removed the Princeton lab because that's shut down. 5Q5 (talk) 18:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You'll be pleased to know, I reviewed the article, and each of the above organizations is mentioned, complete with a citation, in the parapsychology article's section on Organizations and publications. -Verdatum (talk) 00:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to restore organizations list - discussion