Talk:Massively multiplayer online role-playing game/Archive 4

message: From the article:
"Private servers have significantly damaged the commercial MMORPG development."
Is there a source confirming this? Things like these are often biased or hard to prove, the discussion of how big the damage of illegal filesharing really is, could be extended to this case; if a company could somehow remove all private servers in the world, would that player then proceed to buy the game?
-- Sirius81 04:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Private Servers and the damage on companies 

message: I did not ask the question, but I am the one that answered it. I believe the term MMORPG was coined by Verant Interactive, 989 Studios and SOE, as EverQuest was the first game so labeled. --Bill W. Smith, Jr. 22:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Who coined the term?

message: Is there some sort of article where there is information about events that happened in MMOs as a whole rather than individual MMOs, i.e. virtual plague in WoW, Massive amount of money spent on a virtual island, some guy killing another guy over a virtual sword etc. Or is that all put into the individual MMO articles? 202.81.18.30 04:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: MMORPG Events

message: The last time I was in here (months ago), I ripped out all the all variants on the phrase "such as" from this article -- they invite linkspam. Not too surprisingly, the "such as" phrases have crept back in.  I'm planning on removing all "such as" phrases that are not supported as significant with external citation.  And, BTW, I'd love help finding external citations that would help us define what games are significant enough to mention by name.  For example, I've been looking for a definative external link citing the top 3 or 5 commercial MMORPGs.
The best I could find was a confidential Vivendi document comparing WoW with what Vivendi considered the major comercial competitors to WoW: Ultima Online, EverQuest, Final Fantasy, Runescape, and Lineage.
If anyone has access to the npd financial-market-tracking reports for software, or games, that might be a good place to start -- Mmcdougall 23:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Such as" 

message: Why was all of the MMGS terminology removed?  MMORPG is an outdated an inaccurate term.  Massively Multiplayer Gaming Service is a proper title for the genre- omitting the redundant parts (O for online- duh, you can't have an "offline" massively multiplayer game) and adding vital descriptors- "S" for service, to differntiate between non-MMGSs like Guild Wars and true MMGSs like EQ2 and WoW, from their design standpoint, which is the key.  MMGSs have different designs, and it is not possible to have a true MMGS without some form of regular customer payment.  It's simply a truth of the design process and the differences inherent within.
I'm not going to bother going back and editing this information in again, since it's just another example of the flaw of Wikipedia... but enjoy embracing that outdated terminology.  If you'd like to start using "thee" and "thine" again, maybe you'll get a whole "archaic" English fad going or something!
MMORPG... lol.  *shakes head*  Just because someone's called something a "blarb" for a few years doesn't mean that they can't realize that "blorb" is the better term.
:: (sigh) First, sign your posts. Second, babbling about flaws in wikipedia makes it less likely anyone's going to listen to you. Third, please find some sources where you can find MMGS being used in place of MMORPG widely. The reason we don't use MMGS is that MMGS is a model for payment and structuring, and NOT a classification for games. That's like calling a game with lots of expansions a streamed-revenue series rather than The Sims. --ElaragirlTalk|Count 02:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: MMORPG is an inaccurate term; MMGS is the more appropriate term

message: Sorry, but this article very clearly does not meet the criteria for a Good Article. The page has an  tag at the top, four  tags, and some sections that are not tagged as unreferenced, but nonetheless lack sources (e.g. the last three sections of the article). In addition, the "See also" section is far too large, especially since many of the articles listed are already linked to within the text. Best of luck, and feel free to resubmit the article to WP:GAC when it is completely sourced. -- Kicking222 16:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed it to failing, not delisting. Delisting is when it has passed and then gets taken off the list. You failed the article, you did not delist it. Greeves (talk • contribs) 20:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA delisting

message: "* The taxation of virtual wealth by real-world governments.Eric Bangeman (2006), Coming soon to an MMORPG near you: taxes, http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061016-7997.html"
The attached reference addresses the taxation of the conversion of virtual wealth into real dollars.  As with any income-generating activity this has always been taxable, and the statement misleads the reader into thinking that governments actually want to tax the virtual dollars whether or not they are converted into real dollars.   Neil916 (Talk) 17:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Taxation of Virtual Wealth (Removed statement)

message: I think we should get some sources very soon for the three last sections of the article that lack sources.  This will allow us to remove the unsourced notice from the top of the page, and probably resubmit to GA.  Also, in the cases where pages are linked to directly, they should be changed to internal Wiki links, or changed to reference tags.
Let's try and get the unsourced sections sourced by January, or let's remove the offending sections.
Tarinth 22:51, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Source or Remove

message: Shawn Woolley, it would help to update information on him and add him to the MMORPG somehow.
I agree with this unsigned poster; though I've never heard of Woolley, he looks like a textbook example of Computer addiction, which we should definitely mention somewhere.  The same paragraph could also include the story of Qiu Chengwei and Zhu Caoyuan - they jointly won a virtual sword in Legend of Mir 3, Caoyuan sold it online, and then Chengwei stabbed him to death.  I've found this site, which would work as a reference: http://www.games.net/features/104664.shtml. --Beefnut 01:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem I have with including that kind of information is the assumption of cause and effect. Did playing EQ cause Shawn to commit suicide? Or was he just one of those unfortunate persons that was so messed up he was gonna do it sooner or later anyway? Rock music made him do it. Cocaine made him do it. Jazz and liquor made him do it. People will always try to scapegoat one aspect of a persons life when something bizarre happens. It is human nature to look for a reason. It is also totally POV and has no place here unless you can find a TRULY scientific study that proves a causal link without initial bias. Good luck on that one. --Bill W. Smith, Jr. 01:33, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, yeah, we can't really say that MMORPGs cause suicides - still, it seems fair to mention that computer addiction does exist, and that since MMORPGs generally require such a large and regular time investment, they have more "addictive potential" than other computer games.  Given that people have mentioned this sort of thing on this talk page before, it seems like this does need to be put in somewhere, though I can't figure out where. --Beefnut 12:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. The MMORPG itself won't cause people to commit suicide, but they do have a strong addictive effect on the player, and they can be a great source of frustration (when you lose something in the game that you've worked hard to find, for example). An MMORPG can turn a casual gamer into a complete computer junkie who hasn't showered for days. You don't need any scientific studies to verify that fact. :) //Kada 16 Jan 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.100.14.48 (talk) 12:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  We can't forget 

message: how are you supposed to pronounce "mmorpg", is it simply  "em em oh arr pee gee"? --Sonjaaa 06:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. -Beefnut 14:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree: you spell it, not pronounce it.  Coll7 19:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I've heard and use "mum-orr-pug" (schwas on the 'u's, it sounds better than it reads). --McGeddon 12:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  pronounce it?

message: Where can I find a list of the ones with the highest number of active user online on average? I'm assuming WOW is in the top 10 if it's not number 1. What are the top 10?--Sonjaaa 20:30, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: im thinkin that Runescape is #1 (with 10million users) but it would be helpful to me if i could have the 10 most populated list of MMORPGs131.109.43.30 17:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

text: here is the wiki page with the list rofl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mmorpgs131.109.43.30 18:02, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A good website for MMO rankings is MMOGCHART.COM. Greeves (talk • contribs)  01:47, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: List of top 10 most populated??

message: As I delisted the article from WP:GAC, Tarinth, who has done a splendid job on this article thusfar, asked me to comment on its current state. I must say that I am pleased that the "See also" section has been significantly trimmed down, and some of the previously-uncited statements are now referenced. However, there is still much work to be done on this article; the  tag at the top of the article should certainly still be there. There are almost too many unsourced statements to count; I tagged one statement with , and then realized that the next two paragraphs were also unsourced. However, I am quite pleased with the work that has been done thusfar. This is not yet a Good Article, but it is a good article- one that is better than the large majority of pages on Wikipedia. I have one specific problem in regards to the "Early commercial development" section: This section's heading contains an inline citation (which I've never seen before), leading me to believe that the entirety of the section (except for the last sentence, which has a separate source) comes from one source. This should rarely, if ever be done; it's far better to cross-reference large sections of text. Aside from that, there simply need to be more references, especially the whole of the "History" section- which, of course, is the largest and most important section of the article- and the very end of the article. With all of that said, I think this article is very well done, and its editors should be commended. While it's not incredibly close to being a Good Article yet, the fact remains that only 4,000 or so articles are rated as GAs, A-Class, or FAs. When only one quarter of one percent of articles are rated as GA or better, it's hard to break into that class, but I have no doubt that, in time, this article will make it. Best of luck! -- Kicking222 01:05, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Post-GA delisting notes