Talk:Calton Hill

message: Move. Duja 09:32, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: Add  * Support  or  * Oppose  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
*Support --Mais oui! 08:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Add any additional comments:
Serge says "Move the current disambiguation page at Calton Hill to Calton Hill (disambiguation) and leave a note/link at the top of this article to Calton Hill (disambiguation)." I really do not think that that is necessary: when we have only one other article to dab, the standard practice is just to put a dab header at the top of the article saying, something like: The article on the SSSI is at Calton Hill, Derbyshire. Unless of course there are several other famous Calton Hill's throughout the planet! --Mais oui! 19:43, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: The American Consulate is nearby, and the hill is also a noted gay cruising area
Is the proximity of the American Consulate in anyway connected to the gay cruising area. Where do the gay peoples' boats cruise?
:Please remember to sign your posts, using ~~~~. I have removed the unreferenced claim. --Mais oui! 11:00, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Connection 

message: A user altered the text to refer to it as "the Calton Hill" but this is not accurate as all current reliable sources refer to it simply as "Calton Hill."
http://www.scotsman.com/news/Prostitution-arrests-double.6820844.jp
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/ccf53cfa-cf40-11e0-b6d4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1WVXt0hu6
RafikiSykes (talk) 10:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Calton Hill 

message: <-- This is an archive discussion.  To continue the discussion create another section. The result of the discussion was Calton Hill --> 
:Hello. I am in response for your third opinion request. I am currently reviewing the information above and should come up with an opinion in the next 24 hours. Whenaxis (talk) 02:35, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi I had posted for a 3rd opinion when it was just 2 of us as Sylvia had been inactive for a while. I'd still be glad of another opinion RafikiSykes (talk) 21:47, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, from what I can tell from some research I did - Google Maps interprets it is Calton Hill rather than The Calton Hill as per: . Moreover BBC says it is Calton Hill: . Whenaxis (talk) 22:30, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

text: I apologize but I cannot provide a third opinion on this matter. As third opinions are for disputes between two editors. It appears that there are many involved: Kim Traynor, SylviaStanley, Robofish and RafikiSkyes. I am still willing to assist with this dispute, however, I highly reccommend that you take a vote below. If you still cannot successfully resolve this dispute I am willing to file alternatives such as RfC, Mediation, or DRN on your behalf. Whenaxis (talk) 20:57, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

text: As mentioned in my comments elsewhere, I vote to keep the article as is - i.e. without the definite article.  I think the evidence is that the standard usage is now without the "the."  It has nothing to do with Americans or computers or whatever.SylviaStanley (talk) 14:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

text: It appears that Kim Traynor, you are in support of"The Calton Hill" and an unknown person who did not sign their posts on their comment for The Calton Hill. Because Wikipedia works on a consensus basis, I would think that we maintain "Calton Hill", as per SylviaStanley, KBPOG and RafikiSkyes in favo(u)r of "Calton Hill". In a 3-2 in favo(u)r of Calton Hill. However, the vote will stay remain open for others. Cheers! Whenaxis about talk contribs 22:06, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition as per WP:THE, ONLY USE THE OR A, AN IF THE ARTICLE IS: a title of a work (no), an official name (no - an official name would be "Queen" because it would be "The Queen"), another proper name (no - proper name would be "Doe" because it would be "The Doe Family"). Calton Hill does not fall under any of these categories. Similarly, other Calton Hills across the world such as: Calton Hill, Derbyshire is without 'the', Calton Hill, New Zealand is without 'the'. Furthermore, in convential English you are only to use 'the' when describing a non-ownership object such as "the tree", "the Sun" or "the hill". Whereas, "Calton Hill" is a geographical place that does have an ownership aspect to it because Calton Hill was named after something or someone. For example, you would say "my car" or "Bob's car" not "the my car" or "the Bob's car". Whenaxis about talk contribs 22:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consensus Vote 

message: Thanks. Might I suggest we compromise by beginning the article, "Calton Hill, also referred to, especially colloquially, as "the Calton Hill"...? That's a concession on my part, because I don't think the civil servants at the Royal Commission would be very pleased to think they were being colloquial. Meantime, it might be useful to consult the usage in Chapter IX (The Calton Hill) of Edinburgh: Picturesque Notes, by Robert Louis Stevenson (1879) which subsequent authors acknowledge as a classic portrait of the city.  Kim Traynor 11:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I apologise to Kim Traynor for saying that the article was "flat wrong." I admit that was not polite. Please note Kim Traynor that I spent only two weeks in Egypt after my birth and I did a two year masters degree in the USA.  My family (and my spouses) family have lived for generations in Edinburgh and we have owned property on Calton Hill since 1961.  "I'm going up Calton Hill" (or "I'm going up to Calton Hill")  would be a perfectly natural thing to say.  To include the definite article would be an indication the person was a foreigner (English? European?) or using an excessively quaint or formal way of speaking.  Unfortunately I am travelling in Europe and the Far East until the end of February, so I don't have my normal library of reference books with me at the moment.  Nevertheless here are a few references that I remember that refer to Calton Hill without the article: Anne Mitchell's book (1993), “The People of Calton Hill”, Mercat Press, James Thin, Edinburgh,  ;  City of Edinburgh Council (2005), "New Town Conservation Area Character Appraisal"  (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/1503/new_town_conservation_area_character_appraisal) ; UNESCO World Heritage Site Listing (1995) "Old and New Towns of Edinburgh" (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728) ; Professor Youngson's book (2001): “The Companion Guide to Edinburgh and the borders”, Chapter 9 (Calton Hill), Polygon Books, Edinburgh, UK,   ;  Ian Gordon Brown (1991) "David Hume's Tomb: a Roman mausoleum by Robert Adam" Proc Soc Anliq Scot, 121, 391-422 (http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/arch-352-1/dissemination/pdf/vol_121/121_391_422.pdf).  And, as mentioned above, a mass of articles in the local papers "The Scotsman" and "The Edinburgh Evening News" which mention Calton Hill without the article. In retrospect, it may be, that at one time the definite article was used.  So maybe in the introduction we could include "(formerly called the Calton Hill)".SylviaStanley (talk) 12:56, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

text: The archived discussion above says "Calton Hill" was decided on.  Are you going to repeatedly debate this until you get the answer you want?  It's of extreme unimportance to the article whether or not some people say "the".  Most English speakers will know when to use the word "the" and when not to.  This is a classic example of Wikipedia:Avoid Parkinson's Bicycle Shed Effect. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: People generally address things that they are in close proximity to with a "the". So, a resident of Glasgow (since that god-forsaken place has been mentioned :) ), or a foreign visitor to Edinburgh, would probably not refer to the hill as "the Calton Hill", but a resident of Edinburgh might well do. There seems to be indisputable evidence that it was called "the Calton Hill" in literary and literate sources in the past. Also, if the Gaelic name origin is correct, a "the" would be appropriate as part of its title (a lack of that "the" might suggest the hill is named after a person or an event). Why don't we just say in the lead section that it is also referred to as The Calton Hill. Saying "formerly" is both OR because nobody has sources to back that claim up, and incorrect because Kim Traynor has pointed out a number of modern sources that do use "the Calton Hill". Meowy 19:26, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal 

message: What's the source of the elevation and prominence, as quoted in the infobox? The trigpoint has a height of 100m (Newlyn datum), but its clearly not the highest point on the hill. The base of the acropolis is a few metres higher than that, then the Nelson Monument is about 5m higher again. So maybe closer to 110m?
And for the prominence, where is the col? --Vclaw (talk) 13:38, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elevation and prominence 

message: Oh, how I hate this article because of the way contributors avoid familiar terms in their descriptions! I've been disagreeing with another contributor, who hides his/her identity behind an IP address, as to whether "Gaol" or "Jail" is the more appropriate term to use for the prison. I agree it isn't a black and white choice. My preference is simply for the term which I encounter most in the literature, but it has been pointed out that the alternative spelling appears frequently in several reliable sources. Now that the latest edit tells me the great Hugo Arnot used the spelling "Jail", I am prepared to yield. How can one not be impressed by someone who died in 1786 describing the opening of the Calton Gaol in 1817? Kim Traynor | Talk 10:12, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea what is meant by "contributors avoid familiar terms" but with regard to the snide comment "hides his/her identity behind an IP address" I would merely refer to Wikipedia:Tutorial/Registration where it states "Everyone can contribute to Wikipedia, regardless of whether they choose to register." The article on Calton Hill has referred to Calton Jail since Brendandh's edit in December, 2006. If it isn't a black and white choice between "jail" and "gaol" why change it? Apparently, it was changed on the basis that gaol was the traditional spelling (as it was a proper name...). Writers of the time who might be expected to use "traditional" spelling seem to use "jail". Hugo Arnot never uses "gaol". As far as the proper name is concerned, all maps, on the NLS website, from 1817 give "Calton Jail", never "gaol" until terminology changes to "prison".77.99.106.6 (talk) 21:32, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: That first phrase refers more to an earlier discussion than the latest one. On the second point, I prefer seeing someone's identity to anonymity. As for the recent little bone of contention, the page had "jail" in the main text and one image caption, but "gaol" in another image caption. I thought I was bringing the terms on the page into line and merely happened to choose the term with which I'm more familiar. I can see there is an equally good case for using "jail", though I wouldn't myself. Yes, Arnot uses "jail" (though I was trying to point out that he died well before the Calton Gaol was built). It's really no big deal. It can be either or. Kim Traynor | Talk 22:04, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

text: Jail is the American spelling, though much naturalised in the UK, because it's a lot more logical.-MacRùsgail (talk) 16:19, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The point at issue is what was it actually called particularly during its existence and more particularly at the time it was built. The Google Ngram shows that there can be no disputing that the answer is Calton Jail with Calton Gaol hardly appearing before 1870.77.99.106.6 (talk) 20:38, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that seems conclusive. Kim Traynor | Talk 01:46, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Calton Gaol or Calton Jail? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Calton Hill. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120702143148/http://local.stv.tv:80/edinburgh/117195-skeletons-removed-from-edinburgh-street/ to http://local.stv.tv/edinburgh/117195-skeletons-removed-from-edinburgh-street/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:45, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Calton Hill. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090331054106/http://www.primahotels.co.uk/royal/default-en.html to http://www.primahotels.co.uk/royal/default-en.html
*Added  tag to http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocID=54030
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111006194644/http://www.edinburghtrams.com/include/uploads/story_so_far/TRO_Maps_Leaflet.pdf to http://www.edinburghtrams.com/include/uploads/story_so_far/TRO_Maps_Leaflet.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:21, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:14, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion