Talk:Threshing board

message: We may be in for a bumpy ride. Here are a couple of notes left on my talk page by the author of the 
original Spanish-language article. - Jmabel | Talk 07:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Muchos términos son desconocidos para los españoles incluso, pues el trillo dejó de usarse hace mucho tiempo y luego está la gacería, pero si hacéis las cosas tan bien como me imagino y si sois tan rápidos contestando a los mensajes, seguro que tendréis éxito. ¡Ánimo!--Locutus Borg , Talk to me 06:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Some help about the non industrial agriculture and about the threshing boards in: Early Agricultural Remnants and Technical Heritage (EARTH)--Locutus Borg , Talk to me 09:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fasten your seatbelts

message: This is my first pop at translation on wikipedia so I'll put it here
;Comercio de obsidiana en el 4º milenio antes de Cristo : Obsidian trade routes in the 4th Millenium BC/BCE
;Tableta grabada procedente de Kish, datada en el 3350 adC, con representación de trillos en sus dos caras : Tablet from Kish, dated to 3350 BC/BCE, depicting threshing boards on both sides
;Ejemplar de trillo de pequeño tamaño procedente de Túnez ; Example of a small threshing board from Tunisia
;Impresión de un cilindro-sello procedente de Arslantepe-Malatya (Turquía), representando una trilla ritual con trillo, datada en el III milenio adC : Impression from a cylinder_seal from Arslantepe-Malatya (Turkey), depicting a ritual thresh/threshing (I am no agricultural historian), dated to the third millenium BC/BCE
;El Rey David, por Pedro Berruguete : King David, by Pedro Berruguete
;Trillo utilizado como puerta. : A threshing board being used as a door
;La toza del pino, de la que se sacan los listones : Pine segment (unless you have a better word for machine processed wood) from which the strips are made
;Los listones alineados, antes de formar el trillo : The strips lined up before being used to make the threshing board
;Escopleando el listón :Chiseling the strip
;Los listones encolados, como estarían en las cárceles : The glued strips, as they would be in the press (cárceles may be a technical term, I'm using the alternate as in the article)
;Colocación de cabezales con grandes clavos de hierro : Fixing of the crossbeams with large iron nails
;Colocación de las tablillas tapajuntas en las junturas : Fixing of the seam covers (lit. fixing of the tapajuntas splints over the seams, tapajuntas meaning seam cover)
;Estructura de madera terminada, a falta de su empedrado : The final wooden structure awaiting paving (not sure if you have a word a bit more congruent with the article, but it certainly works)
;Gancho para la tracción : Hook for traction (grip anybody?)
;Diversos tipos de mazas y martillos habituales en el taller de un briquero : Various types of hammer (I'm tempted to translate maza as mallet, but I figure it's redundant) commonly found in a briquero's (if it's not in rae.es I'm not even trying) workshop
;Briquero tallando sílex : A briquero shaping the silex
;Enchiflera empedrando un trillo : Enchiflera (I figure whistler or professonal drives people crazy person are wrong) paving a threshing board
;Detalle del empedrado en primer plano, una lasca con un fuerte desgaste (lustre); las demás conservan el filo en buen estado : Detail of the lithic flakes of flint inlaid on the wood: Close up is a heavily worn chip (glossy); the rest are still reasonably sharp
;Threshing de rastro Palestine, 1937[35] : Palestinian threshing board, 1937
My dictionary smells like hand soap for some reason--Shadebug 20:24, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture Captions 

message: There must be a template for link with some entries of the Bible, for instance with Bible Gateway--Locutus Borg , Talk to me 15:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you perhaps thinking of ? - Jmabel | Talk 19:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bible entries 

message: Why, even in Spanish, does the section on "The threshing-board in the Bible" begin with a discussion of common sayings in Spanish, which is not a biblical language? Even less appropriate for an article in English. We need to move this material elsewhere, and be explicit that the material about Spanish-language usage is not all applicable to English language usage. Conversely, that new section should also take up English-language usage. In particular, "threshing out" an issue (discussing it at length and possibly with difficulty, ultimately achieving clarity), and two submarines called USS Thresher; I'm sure there is more. - Jmabel | Talk 04:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ¡YES! I think that the paragraph about the origin of the word «trillo» in Spanish has no sense in English-language (it is a little of spanish ethnocentrism): must be moved to another part of the aticle (perhaps a footnote) or better: talk only about it in latin, «tribulum», because in English laguaje exists too the word tribulation, and it is important to understand that the threshing-board was, in the Bible epoch, a punitive implement or a torture device, even a power symbol. I agree with you. The same occurs with others paragraphs. You may consider to change and improve another ones more appropriates for the English article or a global view of the matter (another point of view is welcome and I can ad it to the spanish article).--Locutus Borg , Talk to me 09:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  A discussion of the etymology of "threshing," "threshing-out" an issue, and submarines called USS Thresher, should probably go in the threshing article rather than here.Fagles 14:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Threshing and colloquialisms 

message: I think I've worked out what we should do with all of the specialized archaic Spanish vocabulary. I think we should have a section in which we talk about how, like many other technologies, threshing by traditional means had its own specialized vocabulary, and then use Spanish as an example. Of course, if we can find analogous English-language examples, we should give those as well. - Jmabel | Talk 03:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Specialized Spanish vocabulary 

message: This is referred to as  'literally "Punic handcart"' and later in the article as 'literally "Carthagininan handcart"'.  It means basically the same thing, however I believe it should be one useage throughout the article.  This would clear confusion, though this is a minor detail.  I have no preference either way, and I need guidance as to which one is more correct and useful.Whetstone333 22:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem with "Carthagininan". I'm the one who used "Punic", I hadn't noticed that the other had been used. They are, of course, interchangeable. - Jmabel | Talk 19:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I feel that we should use "punic cart." There are 40 google hits for "punic cart" and only 2 hits for "carthaginian cart," which suggests that "punic cart" is more common.  Whatever you do, don't translate it as "handcart" - a handcart is a cart pulled by people, but the punic cart is pulled by livestock.  --Fagles 03:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plostellum punicum 

message: There are a few places where we say "sled" but perhaps should say "sledge". "Sled" in English tends to connote "snow sled". It's not wrong, just liable to be misread. - Jmabel | Talk 19:30, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sled 

message: Perhaps there is somewhere that the following belongs, but it is probably not this article:
Something that is beaten is also very stamped on. For this reason, sometimes in Spanish, a beaten path is called a trillo. Metaphorically, something that is very threshed can refer to a very common topic, very rotten. This circumlocution is probably based on the symbolic references of the tribula and the thresh in the Bible.
However, in this chapter we will come up against serious difficulties due to existence of several translations, versions and eschatological interpretations of analyzed biblical entries.
Apart from more erudite interpretations, only to indicate that a great part of the Pentateuch is devoted to reinforcing the inner links of the Jewish community, after the Exodus, an established time in the Promised Land. The Jews, from the time of Abraham, had been a nomadic people (or in continual movement). The sedentarization could cause a religious crisis; for that reason, much effort is put into protecting themselves from external influences, maintaining the purity of their traditions of their morality, and of their religion, trying to avoid contamination from idolaters.
- Jmabel | Talk 06:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cutting some material 

message: I just finished the last bits of Spanish, except for Doña Mayor's old Spanish (where I asked Locutus of Borg for help). The article still needs plenty of editing, and tracking down the original Georges Duby in French, but I'd say it's ready to go live where more English-speaking eyes will see it and edit it.--Homunq 14:34, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  It needs plenty of editing, but doesn't need more translation. --Fagles 02:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds about right. We still need to track down English-language vocabulary for some of the obscure terms, but it is certainly a lot more useful than our current English-language article. I'll look to see if anything should be merged from that article, then I'll move this into place. - 18:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Done? 

message: Here's what the last footnote at the end of the Biblical reference section said of 2 Samuel 12:29-31:
*The translation that King James I of England authorized between 1604 and 1611, says:
29And David gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and took it. 30And he took their king's crown from off his head, the weight whereof was a talent of gold with the precious stones: and it was set on David's head. And he brought forth the spoil of the city in great abundance. 31And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brick-kiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.
That's not the way the KJV 1611 version looks!  Here's what the real 1611 version of the KJV looks like (all of it sic):
29And Dauid gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and tooke it. 30And he tooke their kings crowne from off his head (the weight whereof was a talent of gold, with the precious stones) and it was set on Dauids head, and he brought forth the spoile of the citie in great abundance.  31And he brought foorth the people that were therein, and put them vnder sawes, and vnder harrowes of yron, and vnder axes of yron, and made them passe through the bricke-kilne: And thus did he vnto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So Dauid and all the people returned vnto Ierusalem.
The footnote further said:
*Many new versions of the Bible soften this episode; for instance, the New King James Version (1982) changes it radically:
29So David gathered all the people together and went to Rabbah, fought against it, and took it. 30Then he took their king’s crown from his head. Its weight was a talent of gold, with precious stones. And it was set on David’s head. Also he brought out the spoil of the city in great abundance. 31And he brought out the people who were in it, and put them to work with saws and iron picks and iron axes, and made them cross over to the brick works. So he did to all the cities of the people of Ammon. Then David and all the people returned to Jerusalem.
That's what the 1982 NEW King James version says, but it's not what the real 1964 and 1988 versions of the KJV (not NKJV) actually says!
The NKJV is problematic as far as this verse goes.  The 1964/1988 KJV says this:
29And David gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and took it. 30And he took their king's crown from off his head, the weight whereof was a talent of gold with the precious stones: and it was set on David's head. And he brought forth the spoil of the city in great abundance. 31And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.
Hence there is no difference between this version and that of 1611 (except for typographical differences, they are not mistakes).  So the whole footnote and the phrase in the text body was therefore wholly deleted as spurious, and it has nothing to do with the article topic contextually.
Mdoc7 (talk) 19:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biblical references footnote 

message: I have completely revamped this section; it's mostly (98%) completed now.  Mdoc7 (talk) 03:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biblical reference section