Talk:Strategy of tension

message: The Strategy or Tension has very little to do with the U.S._Army_Field_Manual_30-31B. The term first appeared in The Observer in 1969 and is now used in almost all Italian history books and textbooks about the Years_of_Lead. The term has also been used in a discussion of the Belgian terrorist crisis in the 1980's.
This article should be completely rewritten, and the debate over whether the FM 30-31B is genuine of false should be deferred to the article U.S._Army_Field_Manual_30-31B. References to Ganser should be avoided, or mentioned only with the caveat that many historians have criticized him heavily.
Literature:
* Cento Bull, Anna. Italian Neofascism, the Strategy of Tension and the Politics of Nonreconciliation. Berghahn Books, 2007.
* Ferraresi, Franco. Threats to Democracy: The Radical Right in Italy after the War. Princeton University Press, 1996.
* Willan, Philip P. Puppetmasters: The Political Use of Terrorism in Italy. iUniverse, 2002.
* Hajek, Andrea. “Teaching the History of Terrorism in Italy: The Political Strategies of Memory Obstruction.” Behavioral Sciences of Terrorism and Political Aggression 2, no. 3 (2010): 198–216. (And Italian literature referenced herein).
* Jenkins, Philip. “Strategy of Tension: The Belgian Terrorist Crisis 1982–1986.” Studies in Conflict & Terrorism 13, no. 4–5 (1990): 299–309.
* Luciano Lanza: Secrets and bombs []
Agnerf (talk) 15:54, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please undo redirection and rewrite this article 

message: i edited some words in the article after arriving at this page randomly. the entire article is full of POV, weasel words, and needs to be rewritten entirely. i dont have the time to do the reasearch i edited some of the more gratuitous words such as the phrase:
"This is an important political tactic meant draw attention to the perceived crimes of the Italian Right and Far-Right parties who were supported by the Western bourgeois."
to 
"This is an important political tactic meant draw attention to the perceived crimes of the Italian Right and Far-Right parties who were allegedly supported by the foreign belligerents."
the term "Western bourgeois" is so politically charged and biased there is no way it can be constructive. who says only the landowners in western countries are interfering? are the bourgeois in eastern countries all left wing?
Is the CIA exclusively landowners oppressing the masses? 
to the admin who undid my edit, please dont undo my "un-constructive" edit that is constuctive so wantonly 66.253.190.101 (talk) 23:41, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: rewording of charged terms

message: As can be seen in the "Gladio" entry, even the network's existence is disputed and considered to be a conspiracy theory by some. Even more so its far-fetched alleged involvement in terrorist activities, mainly based on a set of debunked Soviet forgeries. Additionally, the entry does not even make an attempt to present the opposing view, so I am labelling it factually challenged, as it is. 
Also removing a dead link that claimed to be a USA Today article (but did not load ; the nefarious work of Gladio network and the masonic lodge, perhaps?) 212.251.124.11 00:02, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article in La Repubblica refers to the opinion of an  investigative magistrate, not a court. It is the theory of a prosecutor, not fact. It is merely an allegation. There is no proof. Just allegations. Of course Gladio existed, everyone knows that, and obviously, the Italian Communist Party can claim whatever they wanted to claim. Katana0182 (talk) 03:47, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: dispute

message: A section of this article will be deleted in a week from the main page, because it lacks sources.Travb (talk) 22:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Talk:Italian general election, 1948]]

message: I'm confused: why is this in the History of Spain category and WikiSpain project? I see no mention of Spain in the article. Similarly, with the History of Belgium, Contemporary French History, Contemporary German History, History of the Philippines, and History of the United Kingdom. If there is a connection to these categories, then the article should reflect it. Ben Hocking (talk|contribs) 00:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of X? 

message: "The history of Italy as a giant conspiracy" might be a better title for this article. No doubt the "strategy of tension" existed, but it simply cannot explain every event. This article confuses facts and fiction and needs proper references. Dalla Chiesa murdered as part of the "strategy of tension"? I very much doubt that - the Mafia had their own reasons, unless you think that they were part of the giant conspiracy as well. This article badly needs to be re-written by someone with a better understanding of the history of Italy. - Mafia Expert 19:18, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I second this opinion. Unfortunately I don't qualify. Untrue Believer (talk) 00:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't agree. It is not a mistery that Mafia, P2 and extremist right groups had many contacts. Just the person of Licio Gelli, was -e.g.- investing the money of the Corleonesi in the Vatican Bank, on one side, and covering the black terrorists during the investigations about Bologna railway station's massacre, on the other side. It may sound "conspircy theory", but that's history of Italy in that period. Call as you wish.--Desyman44 (talk) 19:13, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Giant conspiracy 

message: The sourcing is dreadful and inadequate. There's no discussion of the Red Brigades and almost no discussion of KGB activities in Italy. Gaintes (talk) 23:05, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Simply because "strategy of tension", as stated in the definition, is used to indicate the actions "of far-right terrorist groups" supposed to be supported by "United States together with the then fascist Greek government" "in order to spread panic among population and create the demand for a "strong" government" weakening the Communist party. Of course there were BR and KGB (about KGB I think there's only the controversial Dossier Mitrokin), but this simply doesn't belong to the subject of the article. --Desyman44 (talk) 19:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Eh, actually there is NOTHING in the definition of "strategy of tension" in this article that mentions this is only about "far right terrorism..." Funny how nothing about left-wing terrorist organizations or the KGB is in here.68.164.4.238 (talk) 21:12, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Agree that this article is silly. it should proably be relegated to a sub-section of one or more other articles which use more conventional political terms. --Salimfadhley (talk) 10:12, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: this is a very silly article

message: Citation link on note 1 is not working: http://www.danieleganser.ch/interviews/pdf_06/GanserInterviewVoltairenet29dez06.pdf --Biopresto (talk) 20:29, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Other citation

message: Please take note of the german version of this article. It mentions 9/11 and Operation Northwoods
203.184.41.52 (talk) 07:23, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  German Version 

message: After reading the article and the above discussion: the issue is extremely comlex and references are lacking even if there is abundant  material quoted in the Italian version.
The English reader may read the book by Stuart Christie on Delle Chiaie PDF on line. It contains some factual errors on the dates of the Italian governments in 1945 but it is very well informed. It details all the work done by the OSS (especially James J. Angleton, who btw also rescued Junio V. Borghese in 1945) since the wartime period to set up the counter insurgeancy network /strategy by employing and linking former fascists, Sicilian mafia, some Freemason secret lodges,  Italian military officers, police and secret services, leading Italian industralists... Apart from the internal Italian connctions there were international ones based on the Portuguese Aginter that provided logistical and material support.
If I have time I will try and translate some more material from the Italian WK which is well referenced, though mainly from Italian sorces (books, magistrates's sentences, parlaimentary inquiries).  Another organisation within this scheme was the Rosa dei venti denounced by also by a member and put under inquiry by magistrates in the 70s. The networks  were so widespread and far reaching that it can be considered fair  to state/assume that Italy was run by a parallel state that overlapped to a great degree with the official one.Aldrasto11 (talk) 05:43, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remarks 

message: I reverted this edit which an editor has twice tried to insert. The editor is not communicating, a trait which they have in common with the prolific IP-hopper that is lurking on this and the Arab Spring article. A sock investigation may be in order.
Regarding the edit, there is no sourcing provided for the term "world powers" in the lead. The examples given in this article is not world powers, but political factions within countries. "World powers" may use the strategy, but it is a strategy applicable by any political grouping, and as such it is an incorrect definition to use this term, bordering on the disruptive, as it seems aimed at specific events connected with the Arab Spring article. --Saddhiyama (talk) 11:50, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  World powers 

message: From what I can tell there is no notable political theory in the English Language called "strategy of tension". This seems to be a literal translation from a phrase used in Italian politics. I think an English political theorist might be more likely to say Divide and Rule. As such this article seems to be a biased and jumbled selection of world-history with no particular thread or notability, based ultimately on a mis-translation.
Furthermore, I note that most of the references are in non-English languages (is there a WP policy about that), and of the articles which are in English, none of them use the phrase "strategy of tension" in a way which would indicate that this refers to a notable concept or political theory.  --Salimfadhley (talk) 22:26, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This phrase is used by all English speaking publications on the subject, ie in the following books: "Italian Neofascism - The Strategy of Tension and the Politics of Nonreconciliation", "A history of Contemporary Italy" by Paul Ginsborg, "Italy, a difficult democracy", "Threats to Democracy", "Italian Politics" etc. Just do a qick search on google books, and you will find a plenty of them. There are others with exactly this title which expand the meabing but all derive it from the Italian period of neo-fascist terrorism. Kind regards --TheGriffon (talk) 14:49, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  A more idiomatically correct phrase than "Strategy of tension" 

message: I spot-checked a few of the links in this section. None of them actually link to subjects which are substantially relevant to the article. Given that they mainly list foreign-language films which are mostly unknown to an English-speaking audience I doubt this even counts as "popular culture". --Salimfadhley (talk) 22:31, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propose to delete the Popular Culture section 

message: Hi!  Remedial Reading Assistant here to lend a hand!  The claim "The theory began with the Cold War Soviet hoax document called US Army Field Manual 30-31B, where the term was first published." is incorrect.  U.S. Army Field Manual 30-31B was obtained Mr. John Young under a Freedom of Information request in 2001, and published here: https://cryptome.org/inscom-foia02.htm The text does not include the words 'strategy' or 'tension'.     - Remedial Reading Assistant (talk) 22:32, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: US Army Field Manual 30-31B

message: Until and unless there are references added for each of the assertions in the Lede, it must be seriously edited. There are no references in the body of the article that support many of the lede’s assertions. Capitalismojo (talk) 22:57, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: To be exquisitely clear, the former LEDE makes it seem that the “Strategy of Tension” is an actual government strategy as opposed to a supposed strategy. The references make it clear that this idea is very much in doubt. The previous LEDE misinformed the readers and contradicted the references and the body.  Capitalismojo (talk) 16:19, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: These aren't mutually exclusive thoughts.  You can say witches are people with evil magic, and also that witches don't really exist.  It's still an accusation, though, and needs to be described.  There's no contradiction here.  I think the article already makes clear that this is almost always an accusation, and a sketchy accusation at that.  Describing what the actual accusation is is fine and yes, it is in the sources.  SnowFire (talk) 03:16, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede is almost entirely unreferenced Original Research.  

message: Text as:
The veracity of parts of these allegations has been disputed; while most sources agree that elements within the Italian government were eager to use the terrorist strikes as a reason to round-up communists, the idea that the government directly worked with said communist groups is more far-fetched. In the same way, some contacts between the government and far-right organizations existed, but allegations of an explicit "green light" to perform raids and the like are considered less reliable. 
Reeks of POV framings and unsourced claims.
Also:
. Ganser's conclusions have been disputed;[2][11] most notably, Ganser heavily cites the document US Army Field Manual 30-31B, a 1976 Soviet hoax meant to discredit the US
Is also misleading, Ganser do not heavily cite Field manual in quesiton, in fact it is mentioned just briefly on 3, 4  separate pages.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by CrenshawBell (talk • contribs) 21:18, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV tag 

message: It could help the Article to mention that some analysis claim that Russia is using a strategy of tension:
https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=811550
Maybe there is an article about russia today in specific.
:Was this article published in a journal?  There's a ton of theses out there, but not all are great sources.  Not necessarily unusable to be sure, but it's nice if there's a publisher who agreed this document was worth sharing....  otherwise it's roughly like citing a random website.  SnowFire (talk) 20:10, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  RT or russia today as Current day example 

message: This is just a thought, but I wonder if there isn't any connection between the so-called "strategy of tension" and the Golpe Borghese, led by Junio Valerio Scipione Ghezzo Marcantonio Maria Borghese, "The Black Prince", 1970 coup d'état attempt, or the later arrest of Vito Miceli in 1974, as there being this kind of alleged connection between the far-right, intelligence services, and sets of people within various mafias, along with the Catholic Church, all rather grandiose in a way, so as to incite a minor clandestine civil war could, perhaps, be explained not quite as a grand conspiracy to establish a state of exception, though I do suspect that some of the people have to participated within such actions to have sought such things, but, rather, as a spiraling set of events born in the wake of intelligence fallout.  I'm not really putting forth an argument to suggest for this to be the case; just kind of tossing it out there in case there is some connection and anyone happens to have any information to put forth in this regard. Daydreamdays2 (talk) 20:34, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Coup Theory