Talk:Old-time music

message: I've moved the heavily edited/cut N.B. from the Appalachia subsection here for discussion:
:"N.B.: This section applies primarily to the "Central Appalachian" region of the United States ()."
The previous version seems inaccurate according to the definition of Appalachia in Wikipedia itself, but the above version seems either unnecessary or inaccurate, too.
Other related discussion includes: Artaxerxes (talk) 18:41, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it should be added.  Alan Lomax did some recording in Timbo, Arkansas as well.  Badagnani 19:08, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What is meant by 'Appalachia'

message: I think it is reasonably clear to everyone that "Old Time" generally refers to the traditional, fiddle dominated, music of North America and that it is subdivided into regional styles as the article says.  What bothers me is that the MID ATLANTIC STATES are missing entirely from the discussion.   Where is Pennsylvania's contributions such as  collected by Samuel P. Bayard, or the music of Jehile Kirkuff?  While I don't personally know much about it, surely there must also be something to say about similar music in western New York and New Jerseys pine barrens.  The mid atlantic region is the bridge between Southern Appalachian Old Time and New England Old Time.  Surely somebody must have something to say.DHBoggs 16:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mid Atlantic? 

message: I see no mention of Mountain View, Arkansas, the self-proclaimed "Folk Music Capital of The World," or the Ozark Mountains tradition in this discussion. While I believe the style performed there most closely approximates that of Appalachia, I'd still like to know what others think. Perhaps the area is an amalgamation of the different styles, probably because many of the folk musicians who live there came from other parts of the country (or world) and brought the style with them. jtylerhenderson 13:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it should be added.  Alan Lomax did some recording in Timbo, Arkansas as well.  Badagnani 19:08, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arkansas? 

message: Calling North Carolina and Virginia the "Non-Appalachian South" is grossly inaccurate.  The Appalachian Mountains run through both states (significantly) and the Appalachian folk culture is significantly represented in both states.  This section needs to be seriously revised or omitted entirely, and NC and VA should be included with the Southern Appalachian folk culture, as they are by so many members of that community.
Claire H. 6/29/2007
A bit of tweaking would make it clear that the article is referring to the piedmont regions of Virginia and North Carolina. The development of the banjo, the incorporation of African music into American music, and the interplay of piedmont and mountain music are areas that can be further developed.Steventatum (talk) 17:37, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Non-Appalachian South" 

message: Link to:
English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians 
http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/english-folk-songs/
Holger Terp
editor,
the Danish Peace Academy
Adde  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.60.252.127 (talk) 09:46, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians

message: "The fiddle is sometimes played by two people at the same time, with one player using the bow and fingers, while another player stands to the side and taps out a rhythm on the fiddle strings using small sticks called fiddlesticks."
I'm suspicious of this statement - it sound like someone is making a joke. Can anyone provide other sources to corroborate it?
Gavin Gourley 12/23/05
:Yes, it's true.  In the Appalachians they also call it "straws."  Al and Emily Cantrell do this (Emily plays the sticks while Al fiddles; I've seen it in person.  Here's a link describing it (about halfway down): http://thepost.baker.ohiou.edu/archives/070298/cantrells.html
:By the way, you can sign your post by typing four tildes, like this:  ~~~~.  Badagnani 00:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Playing the strings with sticks wasn't/isn't a proper part of the tradition, though.  It's always been a little vaudeville-ish and show-offy.  Katzenjammer 22:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: In the little information about this that can be found, it's sometimes claimed that it's a very old tradition.  Do you have evidence for the lack of antiquity of this mode of playing?  Badagnani 01:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of things are old, but it doesn't mean they're part of a tradition. A fiddle is a one-person instrument.  In its modern form it goes back approximately to Andrea Amati in the 1500s, and 99 point mumble percent of the repertoire since then has involved one person sawing away using a bow. So I'd think that to have a second person treating it like a hammered dulcimer while the 'official' player saws away is pretty clearly not part of any traditional canon regardless of how long ago it started. Katzenjammer 14:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Makes sense but I hope we can find further sources on this.  Probably the Cantrells know most of all about the history of this mode of playing since it's part of their schtick.  I might as well write and ask them about it.  Badagnani 16:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiddlesticks! 

message: The external links section is out of control.  I'm removing almost all of it for now.  Before you re-add a link, make certian that it meets the criteria in WP:EL.  If you think we should have a list of notable artists, make sure the artist has a page, write an article, add the artist's external link to that article (e.g. Uncle Earl).  Wikipedia pages are not to act as web guides. -MrFizyx 21:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: I see no discussion of the great variety of other instruments associated with this style of music, to wit: spoons, jugs, bones, saws, pans, washboards, kazoos, harmonicas, whistles, cans, washtub bass, tamborines, etc. (perhaps "hollerin'" could also be considered a form of instrumentation).  This might be viewed as "a tribute to the ingenuity shown by impoverished rural Blacks in expressing themselves musically on whatever they found at hand,""SKIFFLE BANDS AND ALL THAT JAZZ" a tradition that would seem to include the banjo. That old-time music was played by other than string bands, e.g., jug bands, skiffle bands, spasm bands, etc., would not seem to dilute rather to strengthen the tradition.  If this great variety of other instruments does not belong in the discussion at all, perhaps some mention should be made of why not.Artaxerxes (talk) 23:39, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The genres you're discussing aren't usually considered part of "old-time music." They're separate, though related genres. However, spoons, bones, washtub bass, harmonica, etc. are mentioned in the article. I'm not familiar with the jug used in old-time music, though it's definitely used in jug band music. If you have sources showing that old-time tunes were played by jug bands, that would be interesting. Badagnani (talk) 23:49, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Instrumentation 

message: Many if not all of the links at the end of this article appear to be in breach of WP:EL.  Can someone with subject knowledge please take a look and remove such links.  Thank you.  --HighKing (talk) 16:08, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of advert links 

message: Currently, 
While in the year 2000 African Americans made up only eight percent of the Appalachian population[11], their numbers were greater in the 19th and early 20th centuries, due not only to the presence of slaves but also free blacks working in timber, coal mining, and other industries.
I doubt that the black population of Appalachia was ever higher than single digits- there were very, very few slaves in the mountains; the population was overwhelmingly small farmers, mostly quite poor, who couldn't begin to afford a slave.  If need be I can go back to the 1850 or 60 census, but I'm pretty sure I recall correctly.
The popularity of the banjo is not really indicative of the racial composition of any area, since by the later 1800s the banjo was THE American instrument, everywhere from rude cabins to Carnegie Hall (yes, there was white-tie classical banjo!).  It's rather like asserting that the prevalence of the guitar implies a heavy Spanish population.
The African-American *stylistic* elements are very definitely present.  However these could well have spread by diffusion up from the Piedmont. Solicitr (talk) 15:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading/inaccurate? 

message: I don't understand why the section "Regional Styles" are below the sections of "Learning old-time music", since I think that regional styles should be dealt with more and higher importance and more closely related to the history and instrumentation of the old-music. To me, the article would be more coherent and better hung-together to place the regional styles section right below the instrumentation section, and move the learning section right below the "Festivals' section. Please tell me what you people think. Davidmjeong926 (talk) 15:16, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing the order of sections of the article 

message: Considering there's already an existing article on Appalachia music, the subsection related to it in this article contains too much information and is unnecessarily lengthy. How about editing the subsection into shorter, more concise format? And, if necessary, the part of information that the subsection can be added to the main article Appalachian music.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.150.66.99 (talk) 07:23, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Appalachia subcategory is too long 

message: [Old-time_music#Texas_and_the_West] seeems to say that swing is old time. Who's the real expert on what is what with regard to that opinion? For now, citation needed.GeoBardRap 02:48, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it would be nice if there was a "real expert" on this issue.  The trouble is, nobody seems to be able to create a stable definition of what OT music even *is*, much less who should be considered an expert in it.  It seems that this article keeps going back and forth on whether Canadian and New England traditional music should be called "old time" or not.  I think that the only resolution to this issue would be for the article to say that the term is inherently ambiguous and used in different ways, or to officially come down on one side or the other, and have editors enforce that decision from now on. messor (talk) 01:07, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do we want to contend that Texas swing is old time? 

message: ===I created a suggested working policy===
If you go to edit the External Links section, you get an edit notice.
This is it:
Please prefer links which are meta-indexes or highly authoritative on account of the fact some WP editors get mad if you put too many links up-
-IF YOU REMOVE ANY LINKS PLEASE PASTE THEM INTO THE TALK PAGE that way we can make sure a good resource doesn't get lost in the shuffle. We can replace the link somewhere else thanks. --
I am asking people to stick with it. Personally, I like lots of links but others won't so that is that.
===For reference, this is what they are at this point in time.===
Perhaps some must go??
I'd rather have talk first, deletions later. Prob'ly we are OK for now but if the section gets too big, I suggest we weed out the insrument-specific ones first. If it gets to that point.
*Hillbilly Music: Source and Symbol
*Old Time Fiddlers Hall of Fame
*Appalachian Traditional Music: A Short History
*Old Time Music Source list
*Oldtime Banjo
*Sheet music, lyrics & midis for 200+ traditional old-time songs
* The Henry Reed Collection at the Library of Congress Collection of traditional fiddle tunes performed by Henry Reed of Glen Lyn, Virginia. Recorded by folklorist Alan Jabbour in 1966-67.
* Honkingduck.com, Listen to 700+ 78rpm recordings of old time music and search a discography of 319,000+ more.
* Nashville Old-Time String Band Association, a 501(c)(3) organization that provides string band MP3s, midis, chord charts, notation, song histories, jukeboxes, newsletter, mailing lists, and sponsors an annual retreat, special workshops, and at least five public jam sessions each month.
* Monster index of resources
- Geof 01:57, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links policy 

message: Perhaps some must go??
I'd rather have talk first, deletions later. Prob'ly we are OK for now but if the section gets too big, I suggest we weed out the insrument-specific ones first. If it gets to that point.
*Hillbilly Music: Source and Symbol
*Old Time Fiddlers Hall of Fame
*Appalachian Traditional Music: A Short History
*Old Time Music Source list
*Oldtime Banjo
*Sheet music, lyrics & midis for 200+ traditional old-time songs
* The Henry Reed Collection at the Library of Congress Collection of traditional fiddle tunes performed by Henry Reed of Glen Lyn, Virginia. Recorded by folklorist Alan Jabbour in 1966-67.
* Honkingduck.com, Listen to 700+ 78rpm recordings of old time music and search a discography of 319,000+ more.
* Nashville Old-Time String Band Association, a 501(c)(3) organization that provides string band MP3s, midis, chord charts, notation, song histories, jukeboxes, newsletter, mailing lists, and sponsors an annual retreat, special workshops, and at least five public jam sessions each month.
* Monster index of resources
- Geof 01:57, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: For reference, this is what they are at this point in time.

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified