Talk:Comparison of baseball and cricket/Archive 1

message: Is it worthwhile adding 'Retired Out' to the list of dismissal types for cricket? More test players have been given out in that way (2) the for, say, Obstructing the field.?  LFG
Hope that this is the right place.  Surely there was a mistake in the comparison table at the end of the article?  There are 22 yards between the stumps but the popping creases take approx 8 feet off and the bowler's stride and action must account for at least another foot.--81.156.208.120 19:55, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The term in the table is "curving in the air type delivery". In cricket that is an inswinger or an outswinger. The vast majority of cricket deliveries bounce before reaching the batsman, so why should this term get such a restricted definition? A curved pitch in baseball curves in order to make hitting it harder, right? Which is also the motivation for swinging the ball. I see no reason to restrict the definition hear. Particularly with "outdipper" which I had never heard of before, and which turns up 5 hits on google, 4 of which are to derivatives of the wikipedia entry and 1 of which is about motorcycles as far as I can tell. Why use a term which, it would appear, nobody uses? Sam Holden 12:40, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: In all my many hours of slouching in front of the (British) TV watching cricket, I've *never* heard the terms 'indipper' or 'outdipper' used (I'd say 'inswinger'/'outswinger'). Are they perhaps Indian English? Harry R 19:04, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The term is rarely used I agree. Infact I learnt about the term from a cricket book (in the glossay section) in my school library, and I'm pretty sure that it was published in England. I was 14 at that time so I can't recall the name of the book after all these years. Nichalp 18:55, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
A wide is not something that's pitched out of a zone. It's a ball that the batsman can't be expected to hit (or in one-day internationals, can't be expected to make a scoring shot from). The ball pitches where it first bounces. Jongarrettuk 19:43, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: early comments

message: Should there be an addition to the page, given that the ICC is considering introducing a 'double play' type modification to the run out law? Also, the Australian national side has started relay throwing in from outfielders, as in baseball; the Indian side also used it on occasion during the last Tests against Pakistan.
Hornplease 00:04, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to mention the ICC's plan to allow one tactical substitution per side during one-day matches. Loganberry 00:15, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes under consideration at the ICC

message: It may be on the wane, but many still expect cricketeers to exhibit a higher level of sportsmanship than other sports do. It is not proper to do anything, even if within the rules. Some batsmen still "walk". How does cricket compare in this respect to baseball? Avalon 08:06, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If I understand you correctly, I put something about that in the article. In baseball winning is more important than fair play. I was once amazed to see a cricketer field a ball near the boundary and then hold up four fingers. In this year's World Series we saw a batter fail to dispute a call that he'd been hit when he clearly knew he hadn't been. Which is what he's supposed to fail to do. John FitzGerald 16:05, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A slightly late comment: You might be right, in principal. But it is a precept of baseball that it is the umpire's job to make the call. Other umpires can help him if he asks for help or if the rules require it in certain circumstances. But it is no more the player's job to help make a call that would go against him than it is the umpire's job to tell a runner that he failed to touch a base, for example. Wahkeenah 12:41, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Just not cricket

message: There is not enough information about substitutes, and this is one of the surprising differences between the two sports. I think there should be a paragraph in the Strategy section. Anyone want to write it? I'm not sufficiently confident of the baseball rules (how many substitutes does a team have, for example?) to do it myself. Stephen Turner (Talk) 12:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no one has taken you up on writing this section.  If you or anyone else is interested, I would be happy to collaborate on this.  I am American and a big fan of baseball.  I know the rules well and the way substitutions are used.  On the other hand, what I know about cricket is what I've read in Wikipedia.  Would such a collaboration interest you? Shortynj 01:11, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  substitutes 

message: In baseball, visiting team always bats first.
In cricket, there is the coin toss. Who wins decides whether to bat or to field.
----
In baseball, there is a fixed lineup, which MUST be followed throughout the game.
In cricket, there is not a fixed lineup. When a wicket falls, the captain decides which batsman goes onto the field.
*There didn't seem to be much about the all-important issue of who bats first. I added some info. I ask the cricket mavens here to review and revise that and any other comments about cricket that I get wrong, as I am only a very casual follower of the sport. Wahkeenah 13:13, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Team batting first 

message: I didn’t put Korea there, ’cause when I was at the World Baseball Classic, these kids behind me confirmed that soccer is more popular than baseball—but I’m pretty sure baseball is a close number two. Also, is cricket not as big in Bangladesh as it is in Pak, India + Sri Lanka? Wiki Wikardo 09:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that cricket is enormous in Bangladesh even though they're not very good at the moment (but improving fast!). Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:30, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mine too, it's one of the reasons they're being given a bit of a break by being declared a Test nation, even though their standard is low. There are something like 40,000,000 cricket players tehre...Stevage 08:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Soccer more popular than cricket? Well, there's no accounting for the popular taste. d:) Wahkeenah 12:44, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culture 

message: Having watched both games, I cannot see how cricket allows for more athletic fielding than baseball, so I have modified that section. I suspect the disagreement here is more apparent than real – a one-handed catch with bare hands is in fact more spectacular than one made with a glove, but in general you see more one-handed catches in baseball. I think I'll go back and clarify that point. Anyway, I added some more examples of athleticism in baseball, and the bit about the fielding of short hops. Cricketers quite naturally have more difficulty with short hops – again, that's not to say they're necessarily worse fielders, but the short hop is more reliably played in baseball. John FitzGerald 03:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I went back and noted in the article that cricket allows scope for the most spectacular fielding. I also added some detail about how athletic fielding is more frequent in baseball. I also added a section about running because I realized basestealing and sliding, which have no counterparts in cricket, had not been mentioned. John FitzGerald 03:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IMHO, asking which gives more "athletic" fielding is a purely subjective thing. I like the comparison of double-plays to cricket's "return to wicket", high arcs vs short hard throws etc. There is plenty of scope in both games for displays of brilliant fielding. In baseball, you have (as noted) people turning in mid air to throw a ball back to first base. In cricket, you have people taking a catch over the boundary line and throwing it back into play before they touch the ground to save the runs. "Athletic" seems a pretty meaningless and excessively subjective term to use. Stevage 07:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Believe me, I don't consider athletic to be complimentary. The general point I've been trying to make is that baseball offers more scope for fielding prowess while cricket ofers more scope for batting prowess. I've seen play at the top levels of both ganes, and that difference seems obvious to me. I watch the weekly cricket highlights here, and you see balls not caught that are routine in baseball, and they're not caught because it's harder to catch them. You know, hockey players skate better than either baseball players or cricketers, but that doesn't mean they're superior athletes. John FitzGerald 01:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

text: After discussing this with Stevage I have made some changes to clarify the point and remove the suggestion that baseball fielding is inherently more athletic. I believe the rticle does note already that in certain aspects cricket offers more scope for athletic fielding. John FitzGerald 13:23, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Athletic fielding 

message: Would it be more appropriate to describe this as "Differences between cricket and baseball"? To me, a "comparison" is a constructed thing, like an essay, a report or a summary. Whereas "differences" already exist - and therefore we can write an encyclopaedic article on them. I note that there are other articles in this category, so I wouldn't change it lightly. Stevage 07:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Name of article

message: Can someone explain to me what's going on with second base in the picture at the top? I'm not an expert on baseball, but it looks like there's actually no one permanently on base. Is that normal? Do two different players cover the position? Stevage 07:57, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When there's no runner on first or second, the second baseman tends to cover the area between first and second base, like a shortstop, but on the other side. And since there's usually no runners there, that's the most common field position for him. At least that's my understanding as a relatively inexperienced baseball watcher. -dmmaus 00:16, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's correct.  Actually, even when there are runners on first or second, the second baseman still tends to cover the area between first and second base.  For example, with first base occupied and less than two outs the second baseman and shortstop tend to play in what's called "double play depth," a position which strikes the best balance between coverage of the field and ability to reach second base in order to maximize the probability of turning a double play.  Also, one of the second baseman and shortstop will be given responsibilities for covering second base (approaching it in order to receive a throw) in case of a steal attempt from first or a pickoff throw to second.  Similarly, the first baseman usually plays somewhat "off" the base, since fielding balls in foul territory is relatively unimportant.  However, with a man on first and second baseman open the first baseman will play close to the base in order to "hold" the runner and receive pickoff throws.  Occasionally the first baseman will play closer to the base in order to "guard the lines"-- balls hit down the line are more likely to go for doubles and triples, and a team can choose to increase the likelihood of giving up singles in exchange for transforming would-be doubles and triples into outs.
*The confusion arises to the new fan because the infielders often begin play in an "umbrella" format, with the shortstop to the left of second base and the second baseman to the right (from the perspective of the batter, or in the diagram in question). In the early days of baseball, similar diagrams showed the first, second and third basemen essentially "planted" on their bases, with the shortstop essentially a "roving" infielder, somewhere between the second-third base path and the pitcher's mound. That's where the term "shortstop" came from. The evolution of the game compelled the shortstop to move back to the spot shown in the diagram. In 10-person softball, there is a similar situation: there are four outfielders instead of three. Depending on the batting skills of the teams (especially depending on whether the game is being played by men or by women), the roving outfielder may be stationed in shallow left-center field (or elsewhere as appropriate), or the outfielders may elect to play "four around", in a layout similar to the infielders. Wahkeenah 13:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second base in image 

message: The distinction between gloves and mitts in baseball is important – only catchers and first basemen may wear mitts, while other fielders must wear gloves. Gloves have fingers. SO I have restored the distinction to the article and will shortly go back and clarify it a bitt. 
I also don't think it's accurate to say that gloves and mitts allow diving catches, for example, to be easily made, so I change the modifier to more easily. John FitzGerald 19:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries. What real change do you think it makes to the game, though? Perhaps in baseball there is less credit given for taken the catch, and the interest is getting the double play. Whereas in cricket, catching the bloody thing is hard enough. Stevage 20:51, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gloves and mitts 

message: Discounting the pitcher/bowler and catcher/wicket-keeper, this means Major League Baseball fielders must cover an average of approximately 16,500 square feet per fielder, while Test cricketers cover 19,500 square feet per fielder. This difference is a factor leading to differences in playing style between the games.
This looks like a bit of the old 'original research' to me. That seems like a pretty trivial difference, and barely worth mentioning as is. In reality, baseball fields are much more evenly spread out, meaning some cricket fielders only cover a couple of square metres, and others cover a third of the field or more. It's not unusual to have 6 fields forming the slip cordon, gully and wicketkeeper. That leaves only 4 fielders to take the whole rest of the field.  Suggestion: Try and avoid speculation about what "is a factor leading to differences", and simply describe the differences as they are. Stevage 20:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. I've changed it. The statement that cricket fielders "on average" cover more territory than baseballers is certainly true though, the operational words being "on average". I've also added a statement that the actual area covered varies per fielder. -dmmaus 21:54, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Btw, sorry for my tone there, bit tired and that came out ruder than meant :) Stevage 21:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this valid? 

message: I restored a picture and some text about baseball fielding which was deleted without explanation. Maybe there was a good reason for it, but since it wasn't stated there's also the possibility the deletion was an accident, since, although I'm open to arguments for its removal, I don't see any persuasive argument myself. I did leave out the comment about highlight reels, since it probably requires a citation. John FitzGerald 13:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion without explanation 

message: In the table at the end of the article comparing the definitions of various terms used in both sports, a ball is defined in baseball as an illegitimate delivery.  I disagree, and say that an illegitimate delivery is a balk (eg: not stopping before delivery from set position, aka "quick pitch"), or other pitches which will result in the umpire calling "no pitch" such as when the ball has been doctored.  However, I can't define a ball in a simple manner that doesn't require the reader to know several other terms, such as "strike", "fair territory", "foul territory", etc.  Any ideas? --Thedangerouskitchen 12:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The rules of MLB (section 2.00) say "A BALL is a pitch which does not enter the strike zone in flight and is not struck at by the batter." That requires knowledge of what a strike zone is, but I think people would get the idea. John FitzGerald 15:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A ball in baseball is analagous to a wide or a bye in cricket, if that's a useful point to make. I agree that a ball is not an "illegitimate delivery". Woodshed 15:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe "a pitch thrown to an illegitimate location"? --SodiumBenzoate 21:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Throwing outside the strike zone is not illegitimate, though, which perhaps distinguishes a ball from a wide. The pitcher's allowed three of them, and uses them strategically. Even the fourth ball will be used strategically when a batter is wlaked intentionally. That may sound like a quibble, but I still think the official definition raises the fewest questions. John FitzGerald 17:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The concept of the "ball" in baseball originated in a way similar to the way the "wide" is called in cricket. The idea was to force the pitcher to throw near the strike zone or pay a penalty for it, i.e. he couldn't throw wide of the plate all day. It's a subtlety. Wahkeenah 02:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

text: My point is that it's not illegitimate to throw a ball. It's illegitimate to throw four. As a compromise, how about "a pitch which the batter is not considered to have a reasonable chance of hitting"? I still prefer the official definition, though. John FitzGerald 14:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the current accepted concept of a "ball". However, its original point is the same as with cricket, that it was not a "fair" pitch, i.e. not one that the batter had a reasonable chance of hitting... and the base-on-balls is the "penalty" for it. The pitcher is "allowed" to throw three balls on a given batter, and when he throws a fourth ball, the batter is awarded first base. Wahkeenah 17:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Ergo a ball is not illegitimate, which is the point I was addressing. If you're allowed to throw it (as you are – no quotation marks necessary), then it's legitimate. Hitting a batter is illegitimate, throwing the ball where he can't hit it is allowed. As to what was in the minds of the original framers of the rules of baseball, I can claim no knowledge of it. They used to allow a lot more balls, though. John FitzGerald 20:12, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It depends on what you mean by "legitimate" and "allowed". If you throw a "wide" in cricket, there's a penalty. If you throw a "ball" in baseball (or, specifically, 4 of them) there's also a "penalty". Wahkeenah 21:24, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, this is verging on a quibble, and maybe the problem is the word illegitimate. There are things in both sports which are always wrong – hitting a batter with a pitch or blocking the cricket ball with your body in front of the stumps, for example – that is, they are always penalized. Furthermore, saying that a ball is illegitimate gives a misleading view of baseball. One of the things pitchers and catchers try to do is to get batters to swing at pitches out of the strike zone. It's an accepted part of strategy. To go back to my original point, what's wrong with the official definition of a ball? John FitzGerald 01:44, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The purpose of the article, as I understand it, is to draw parallels between cricket and baseball where they exist. A ball is called when outside the strike zone because it is an "unfair" pitch, in the original terminology. You're right that the "wide" is presumably a mistake on the part of the bowler, and that maybe a hit batsman is a better analogy... but many called balls are "mistakes" on the part of the pitcher also. Wahkeenah 02:22, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

text: If the purpose is to draw comparisons where they exist, then the name given to a ball in the 19th century isn't relevant. Anyway, I won't have a fit if a ball is called illegitimate, even if it's allowed, but I still think the official description is better. The current definition in the article seems fully informative to me. John FitzGerald 13:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The current article equates a "wide" to a "ball", and the word "illegitimate" does not even appear in the article, so now I'm not sure what we're "arguing" about. Wahkeenah 13:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at the table underneath that one. Thedangerouskitchen 14:38, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, so they are saying the definition of a ball is way too wordy. I might agree. Maybe I'll take a shot at it after work today. Wahkeenah 16:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did a little bit with it. I don't care for that term "legitimate"; I changed it to "legal" (if that term is never used in cricket, you could change it back) and I changed a few other things that caught mine eye. Wahkeenah 23:51, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Simple definition of a ball

message: This whole article is seriously lacking in citations.  This isn't a problem for basic rules and such (which can be gotten from the linked articles and their references), but for dubious assertions like "individual defensive mistakes are more costly [in baseball]", "The requirements of baseball also make athletic fielding more frequently necessary" (which doesn't even mention slip catching, which has little equivalent in baseball), and others.  Many of these statements also seem to be Original Research.  There aren't quite as many problems with Wikipedia:Neutral point of view but statements like "Baseball's strategy varies with the game situation" (implying that this is untrue of cricket) seem closer to opinion than fact.
I'm not sure I have time to go through such a long article trying to fix these things up, but would a template like Template:POV and/or Template:Unreferenced be appropriate? Kingdon 03:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've long thought those things about this article. It's more of a collaborative essay than an encyclopaedia article. Stephen Turner (Talk) 09:50, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oddly enough, it looks like today is the second anniversary of that page, which I just ran across recently. It began as a simple factual comparison of terms, easily verifiable, and as you say it has evolved into kind of an essay. Someone who is actually offended by the nature of the article as it stands now, could maybe try to pare down the opinionated stuff (such as the "athleticism" comments, which are highly subjective), and turn it into something more useful; namely, to allow fans of one sport to better understand the other sport. Being interested in the history of sports, I would like to see more emphasis on commonality between the sports, like times in the 1800s when certain aspects of the sports were closer than they are now. I think adding that layer would improve understanding of the sports by casual fans. For example: baseball players originally did not wear gloves; both bowlers and pitchers originally were restricted to underhand deliveries, on flat ground from behind a line; the original box scores - showing outs and runs - were supposedly based on cricket scoring, etc. However, that opens the door to complicating matters. Rounders has a lot more commonality with baseball than cricket does, in certain ways. It's just that cricket and baseball are "major" sports, and rounders really is not. So although one could write an article comparing the three sports (along with the extinct "Massachusetts Game" of baseball, which was very much like rounders), that might defeat the original intent of the article. Wahkeenah 10:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

text: As for "Do we really need a source for the contention that defensive mistakes are more costly in baseball?", yes, we do, and it is not obvious.  A catch in cricket means that batter is gone for the whole rest of the match (or half a match).  Even aside from the citation issue, I'm still not sure in which sport a missed catch is more costly.  You're right about the mention of slip catches, and I think the solution is to reorganize the material so it is mentioned in the same place as the description of athletic fielding in baseball (double plays and such). Having a references section for "obvious" things like the shape of the bat would be a good step (especially since they are so easy to find, and probably just need to be at the end rather than in footnotes for every fact), but it is the subtler things like strategy which really need the cites. Kingdon 02:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you could cite a baseball and cricket score website, or if you wanted to get fancy a list of highest and lower scores.  But the cites aren't as important for things like this. Kingdon 02:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

text: About a point made above: the variation in strategy in baseball games is not an opinion – consult a few coaching manuals. A comparison of baseball and cricket coaching manuals might help resolve some of the difficulties with these comparisons. John FitzGerald 21:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Another point worth mentioning is that, like cricket, baseball used to play the entire game with a single ball, which would tend to get softer over the course of the game, presumably. That practice changed in 1920, although they were wearing gloves long before then. However, at one time the glove was merely an aid in stopping the ball, it wasn't much good at "trapping" it. The "trap" design of the glove is a rather more recent development. Maybe it comes back to what the purpose of the article really is. If you're comparing factual stuff, like terminology and the way the game progresses, at a high level, it's not much of a problem. Trying to define one as more athletic or more strategic than another is slippery. I'm sure there are those who think soccer is highly strategic, too. To me, it's just a bunch of guys kicking a ball around and not scoring very often. As a lifelong baseball fan with occasional exposure to cricket, I certainly find cricket more interesting than soccer. For that matter, I find Ultimate more interesting than soccer. But unless someone can weigh into this who really knows both baseball and cricket thoroughly (which I don't), it's really difficult when it starts to get into the "which sport is better" area. Wahkeenah 21:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You're right about coaching manuals, John FitzGerald.  Do you have the titles of a few which can be added to the References section?  That would be a big step forward. (I've put one in, but I'm not sure it is the best coaching manual, or most relevant to this article) Kingdon 02:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I checked the references to athletic fielding, and all they say is that baseball gloves provide more opportunity to field atletically. I don't see much POV about that (it's like saying it's easier to fish with a net than with your bare hands), but I strengthened the statement about the relative batting and fielding abilities of baseball players and cricketers. I'll check back later to make sure that neither the fielding abilities of cricketers nor the batting abilities of baseball players are unwittingly disparaged. John FitzGerald 13:01, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  i can't see why we need references for some of this. isn't it obvious that if u have a big glove it is going to be easier to catch than it would bare-hand. and isn't it obvious that if u have a large _in relative terms) flat piece of willow that it is going to be easier to hit than a thinner rounded piece of wood. Pratj 19:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources, Original Research, and NPOV 

message: From the "Culture" section:
:Cricket is an equally strong influence on the culture of many nations, especially Commonwealth nations, including India, Pakistan, Australia, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Bangladesh, Kenya, Zimbabwe and the English-speaking Caribbean.
That's every Test-playing nation except for one: England. (Plus Kenya, who don't play Tests at all.) It's true that cricket isn't the most popular sport in England, but neither is it in Zimbabwe. Any reason for England not to be mentioned (other than as part of "Commonwealth nations") in the list? Loganberry (Talk) 20:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My recollection is that this list grew up in the usual Wikipedia way; by everyone adding their own country to it in a "me too" kind of way. Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don't we have culture in England? <g> 

message: I had a stab at shaping the article up and posted the results at User:John FitzGerald/CCB. I did not eliminate everything for which sources need to be provided, but provided fact tags for some of the assertions in the article. Statements for which it was unlikely that any reasonable source could be found I simply removed. I also left some unattested statements without fact tags because it should be easy to find a source for them, which I will try to do. 
So if you could look at the parts of the draft that you're most concerned about and see if you think they're closer to what is wanted here we might be able to come to a group decision about what to do with the article. Or maybe my attempt will prove to be completely beside the point but at least that should help establish what needs to be done with the article. John FitzGerald 20:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested modifications 

message: I noticed someone had changed the heading "Fielding/Defense" to "Fielding/Defence". I figured since the "defense" part was referring to baseball, the US spelling was appropriate so I reverted. But when I checked the history I saw that it had been changed the other way by the edit prior to the one I reverted. Rather than continue flipping back and forth, we should decide which spelling to use and put a comment in the article to avoid this recurring. I'll argue in favour of the US spelling in this particular instance, since it is referring to baseball. I think this article is actually a very good case for violating the normal Wikipedia practice of sticking to either US or British spelling throughout the entire article. We're inherently comparing the two cultures, so applying the appropriate and different spellings at the appropriate places seems logical. -dmmaus 00:07, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to cite Noah Webster for violating wikipedia rules. :) Wahkeenah 17:30, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not the most important issue, but the article should be consistent. I use Canadian government spelling, which is a mixture of American and British spelling: colour, organize, defence, program, cheque, and both licence and license. That might be a useful compromise. Actually, I like Wahkeenah's and dmmaus's suggestion. John FitzGerald 16:42, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that cricket words should be spelled the British way, and baseball words the American way. Stephen Turner (Talk) 17:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually I doubt there are very many instances. Which reminds me, why don't we Americans spell it "instanse"? But one could say "baseball favors the power game" and "cricket favours place-hitting" in the same sentence (why isn't it "sentense"?) and that might be excessively cute but I don't have a problem with it. d:) Wahkeenah 17:30, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And why don't you write "advertize"? That's always puzzled me. But I'm getting off-topic. Stephen Turner (Talk) 17:40, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: US/Commonwealth Spelling

message: Since no one has commented on my suggestions for revision, I decided to introduce them here a bit at a time and see what people think. I have taken out of the Fielding section those assertions which seem to me not to be obviously true and for which citations are not offered (some were mine). I've been wrong before, but if the rest of you disagree with how I've gone about it we can still by discussing the changes come up with a better idea of how to revise this article. If there are no fundamental objections to the changes I'll continue with other sections next week. The complete draft of my suggested revision is still at User:John FitzGerald/CCB. John FitzGerald 12:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing original research and POV 

message: In the Bowling/pitching section, it says "Replaced pitchers cannot return to pitch again in the same game"... then latter it says "moving a pitcher to a fielding position and returning him to pitch later in the game is legal in baseball"
So which is it? Tompw 21:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction!