Talk:Classical music of the United Kingdom

message: Percy Scholes categorises English (but not UK) classical music as follows:
===1000 to 1500===
Simon Tunsted, John Dunstable, John Hothby....
===16th and early 17th centuries===
Choral music and keyboard music. Byrd. Viol music.
===Civil war and republican period===
Including the beginning of opera in England
===The restoration===
Pelham Humfrey. Henry Purcell...
===18th century===
Does Handel qualify?? Arne
===19th century===
Sterndale Bennett. Sullivan. Parry. Stanford (Irish). Mackenzie (Scottish). Elgar
===20th century===
Vaughan Williams. Ethel Smyth. William Wallace. German. Delius. McEwen.Bantock. Holst. Coleridge-Taylor. Ireland. Bridge. Bax Walton. Britten....
20th century: the birth of the classical music performer getting more publicity than the composer... e.g. Nigel Kennedy, Richard Clayderman, Russell Watson, John Williams (the guitarist), Freddie Mercury, Renee and Renata?!?
===21st century===
Composers: John Williams (the composer although technically he started composing in the 20th century), Karl Jenkins
Performers: G4, El Divo, Amici Forever, Bryn Terfel
Is that a reasonable start for a structure?? Bluewave 17:57, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me.  And Handel most definitely qualifies, seeing as he wrote the piece of music that is played at the Coronation of every monarch since George III... -- Francs2000  18:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Structuring the material

message: Composers: John Williams (the composer although technically he started composing in the 20th century), Karl Jenkins
Performers: G4, El Divo, Amici Forever, Bryn Terfel
Is that a reasonable start for a structure?? Bluewave 17:57, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me.  And Handel most definitely qualifies, seeing as he wrote the piece of music that is played at the Coronation of every monarch since George III... -- Francs2000  18:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 21st century

message: User:R9tgokunks recently deleted the mention of Handel in the introduction and did the same when I reverted the edit. Before entering into a revert war on this, I suggest it is discussed here. Handel's place in the opening section must be based on 2 criteria: does he fall within the scope of the article and is he notable enough to be mentioned in the introduction? It appears to be on the first of these points that R9tgokunks has deleted him. So the case in favour of Handel falling within the scope:
*The article is called "Music of the United Kingdom" not "Composers born in the UK". The title allows a great deal more latitude for inclusion of composers whose work was a significant influence in the UK.
*Handel became a naturalised Briton in 1727.
*He settled in England in 1712 and it was his home until his death in 1759.
*He wrote anthems for the British coronation, one of which has been used in every coronation since.
*Some of his other most notable music was written for British events (firework music, water music...).
*Most of his works were composed in Britain.
If we exclude Handel, simply because he was not born in Britain, we would presumably exclude Irving Berlin from articles dealing with American popular music as well is omitting George II from articles about the British monarchy. Bluewave 11:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Handel's position in the music of the United Kingdom

message: Could anyone who is interested in helping sign up at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Music_of_the_United_Kingdom#Participants. Thanks! Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 12:39, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Music of the United Kingdom]]

message: I have done this because what was there before was inadequate. But at this length the overall article if similarly expanded would be immense. Even what I have written is hopelessly inadequate. The article should be shorter than that would be, but it should cover the ground. I suggest this article be treated similarly in all periods until it is hopelessly long and then split into many and concisely summarised (which is not what it was before, simply 'thin'.) I think this article could be quite a long one - one would expect that with this title - a real encyclopedic effort, provided it eventually sends readers to wherever their interests lie, in daughter articles. Dr Steven Plunkett 23:22, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  19th century Expansion, 2 June 

message: In light of the new wikiproject (User:Gustav von Humpelschmumpel, above) and of certain edits made to the introductory paragraphs to this article within the past three days, it is apparent that no article concerned with Music of the United Kingdom can commence any earlier than the 1800 Act of Union by which the United Kingdom came into existence: and also that, with regard to Eire, it cannot progress forward in time beyond the partition of Ulster and Eire during the 1920s. That, however, was clearly not the intended scope of this article, which appears to refer to 'composed' music within the classical formats and genres, in the British Isles. The term British Isles is indeed used in the opening paragraph. It is not apparently intended to exclude, for instance, the court music of James IV of Scotland. I hereby formally propose, therefore, that this article should be re-titled Classical music of the British Isles, or else that all matter before 1800 should be transferred from it into an article of that name. Dr Steven Plunkett 22:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From recollection, the title was originally proposed as a UK collaboration project in 2005. In the event, I don't think it was a particularly successful collaboration, with only 2 or 3 main contributors. I was one of those and I certainly interpreted the title pretty broadly! (I'm not sure it was ever thought out clearly, but I certainly didn't see any point in an article which arbitrarily began with the Act of Union then excluded Irish music after the 1920s). Overall, I don't think the article has been very successful, partly because it is quite difficult to find: I, for one, keep forgetting the title (a problem that seems to be common in the various articles on music relating to Britain). I suspect that it is hardly ever seen by anyone. Almost anything you could do would be an improvement! The whole of British music is in need of some radical restructuring so perhaps a clearer overall structure would find a better home for this article's content. Bluewave 07:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal for change of article name 

message: It's not directly relevant to this article, but someone here may have a clue.  I created an article for George Frederick Anderson purely because he was a Master of the Queen's Music to Queen Victoria for 22 years (1848-1870).  However, I can find next to no biographical material on him.  No date or even year of birth; no date of death (just a year); no explanation of why he left the post before he died; and, most importantly, no information about why he was chosen in the first place - I have no idea whether he was an instrumentalist, conductor, composer, or what.  There seems to be no record of any music he ever composed.  He has no article of his own in Grove V, but he may appear in the New Grove.  MQM is not given to just anyone, they're always highly respected musicians/composers.  Yet Mr Anderson is a real mystery man.  Can anyone help out?  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:06, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried the DNB (nothing) and Oxford Music Online (basically Grove + OCM + Ox Dic of Mus). Very little to report. Grove has a brief biog of Lucy Anderson, nee Philpot. She was a pianist who, in 1820, married "George Frederick Anderson (d 14 Dec 1876), a violinist who was from 1848 to 1870 Master of the Queen’s Musick". Oxford Dictionary of Music also has a brief Lucy Philpot article which mentions that Anderson "(b London, 1793 ; d London, 1876 ) was a violinist and Master of the Queen's Musick, 1848 – 70". I went back to the DNB and tried Lucy Philpot. There is quite a good article on her which mentions "In 1820 she married George Frederick Anderson (1793–1876), a violinist, later Master of the Queen's Musick (1848–70) and treasurer of the Philharmonic Society (1840–76)." Bluewave (talk) 09:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's excellent, thanks Bluewave.  In one fell swoop you've increased the information we have on Anderson by 300%, quite an achievement.  I'll add it to his article, with the cites you mention.  --  JackofOz (talk) 10:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

text: It seems Grove has gone backwards since 1954 about GFA.  Grove V's article on Lucy Philpot Anderson says: "In July 1820 she was married to GFA (d. 14 Dec 1876), a violinist engaged in all the best orchestras and subsequently, from 1848 to 1870, Master of the Queen's Music".  New Grove says slightly less about him than this.  Very odd.  One would have thought that a MQM would merit an article in his own right in Grove by now, just as he merits a WP article purely by virtue of this appointment.  --  JackofOz (talk) 11:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Curiouser and curiouser! By the way, I suppose Lucy Anderson also deserves a Wikipedia article at some point... Bluewave (talk) 12:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Now done.  --  JackofOz (talk) 05:47, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

text: And see my note @ Talk:Lucy Anderson re her possible influence in securing George the post of MQM when he seems hardly deserving of it.  --  JackofOz (talk) 06:01, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Calling all George Frederick Anderson experts

message: An article on British Classical music that doesn't even mention Henry Purcell? What? 90.205.92.146 (talk) 06:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: He is in the Early music of the British Isles article. This one starts in 1800.--SabreBD (talk) 07:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is Henry Purcell?!!! 

message: The timeline on this page is the subject of discussion here which may lead to its removal and possible replacement.--SabreBD (talk) 11:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Timeline discussion

message: This should be addressed. 98.67.0.105 (talk) 13:26, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  both Bowen and Bliss are missing