Talk:List of replaced loanwords in Turkish

message: This page was created from the list at Talk:Turkish language. The article referred readers to this list on the talk page, which is inappropriate, so I have relocated it here. JPD (talk) 14:42, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: May I ask why? Why do you think it would be useful or needed to have these in the old script? Atilim Gunes Baydin 02:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Because it doesn't look good having it only halfway complete.--Fox Mccloud 21:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I've been working on that. I've only got halfway through so far, and will continue to provide the script as time permits. Patience, patience, Fox McCloud. —Saposcat 08:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.--Fox Mccloud 21:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List 

message: I suggest retaining the current spelling of words of Arabic or Persian origin. Spellings such as harb and nisbet are outdated.
Instead, you might want to add a column, giving the modern spelling of a word, if it is still used. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 23:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The recent changes by User:Saposcat, such as tadilat into ta'dîlât or ömür into ömr might be useful for linguistic purposes, but these are not the correct spelling of these words in Turkish (i.e. they should be spelled tadilat and ömür, clearly specified by the official spelling guide by TDK, as both words are still used in Turkish with their new counterparts). I hope Saposcat could change these back into their proper spelling, and add a new column if these arabesque renderings are absolutely needed, but I don't see why they should be, actually. I feel the need to stress again that the spellings tenbel, ömr and others recently changed are wrong spellings of Turkish words written using the Turkish alphabet (I think it is already clear that the alphabet used is the Turkish alphabet, by the use of ö and ü). Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 00:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree as well. The only reason I haven't added that extra column yet has been because of time constraints, but when I have the time and inclination, I'll split the Latin-alphabet spellings into something like "Transliteration" (for things like "tenbel" and "ömr") and "Modern Turkish Spelling" ("tembel" and "ömür"). The main reason I wanted to keep the strictly transliterated version is because that is the way one (usually) sees the words written out in serious academic-type works that deal with Ottoman texts. Be patient and bear with me on the issue (or, alternatively, just be bold and make changes yourself). Cheers. —Saposcat 04:14, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I don't like that "be bold" motto applied to every single situation, I just wanted to hear what you would say first. But I do not want to see wrong spelled Turkish words published on the web on an "encyclopedia" and I'll now try to add a new column for the proper Turkish spelling, and you could add the old script versions and their transliterations to the first column, if that's OK with you. Since about half of the list lacks the old script and its transliteration (in the way you're proposing), this would mean that the entries in the first and second columns will be identical for these, at the moment. Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 14:21, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Modern spelling

message: This page is getting better, I think it's very useful to have a list like this.
I believe that, in line with the article title, the stress should not be as much on the Ottoman Turkish (i.e., originally Arabic and/or Persian) words, but on Öztürkçe, because an attempt was made to purify the Turkish language not only of Arabic/Persian words, but sometimes of French words as well. It should be noted, however, that sometimes one foreign word was replaced with another.
Wouldn't it be nice to have an extra column for including the original language? I am not too fond of the way that is indicated right now, with the asterisks. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 16:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Words of Arabic/Persian vs. Western origin 

message: According to the article, there are only two words of Greek origin. The words 'astronomy', 'filologi', 'histoloji', 'karakter' are French according to the same.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.55.108.176 (talk) 11:41, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Words of Greek origin 

message: I don't think kolay should be considered an Öztürkçe alternative for basit, the first meaning "easy", the latter "simple". Though related, they're not synonymous. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 14:30, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, the dominant meaning of kolay is "easy", while basit can mean both "easy" and "simple". In that sense, kolay is the alternative of basit for the meaning "easy". Atilim Gunes Baydin 16:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sağolun. Kolay gelsin! :-) --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 10:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Hi there, you shouldn't mix up these two words, as said above, the dominant meaning of kolay is "easy", while basit can also mean primitive, which is the main usage in daily turkish language. DatenPunk 09:59, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Kolay'' vs. ''basit'' 

message: Thank you for this page.  I am doing research into shared vocabulary between Turkish and Persian and it's important for me to see the Arabic (Persian) spelling of the items because I sometimes don't recognize the words from their Turkish pronunciation.  For example, I would have never equated "akit" with the Persian 'ǣaqd.
Also, to give you an example of older and younger generations, I learned Turkish from my parents (born 1908 and 1923) in the US.  I then learned Persian in my 20's and this helped me expand the vocabulary of both.  My husband (who is younger than me) recently moved here from Turkey, and he has an appalling lack of understanding of the so-called "Ottoman" vocabulary I use.  I think his Turkish vocabulary looks so lifeless compared to mine, even though I'm speaking immigrant Turkish. 
128.8.41.219 21:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion of Persian/Arabic Script 

message: I've made about 20 corrections to the Ottoman script: you can check them out in the History.  There were a few shins for se, for example, in Kanun-i sani, etc.  In the Ottoman transcription the distinction between 'ayn and hamza hasn't always been preserved: I changed a few, such as sür'at, but there are still some there, I think (teadül & teamül, for example). --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Something funny was also happening with non-joining ya in a few words (you had to look very carefully to spot this).  I've corrected hafriyyat, mersiye & sayyare—but there might be others. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:59, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now completed correcting the Ottoman script, & also the Ottoman Turkish words given only in transcription.  The only remaining decision is whether to mark the different g, k, t, h, s and z letters with diacritics!  I see that in some cases they are marked (for example in the very first word, ˤaḍale); but in most cases they aren't. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 21:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correcting Ottoman script 

message: I don't think you've made it clear that this list is merely a selection, rather than a comprehensive list.  It certainly covers a wide range of words, but it's not clear to me how they were selected.  That may not matter too much, as long as the reader knows that this is only a fraction of the total.
The "two words" meyil are really the same word: the meaning "tendency" is simply a metaphorical usage (like "inclination" in English). --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many common words are missing (eg mekteb/okul, millet/ulus), while some of the included words are highly specialized (tekeffül). Why is this? --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 21:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basis for selection 

message: As the native speakers here—but not necessarily the casual reader—will know, ecel is not an exact equivalent of ölüm ("death").  I've changed the translation to "(predestined time of) death", which I think captures the meaning more precisely.  I found these two rather nice examples online:
:Eceliyle ölen, akıllarda kalacak kadar azdı. - B. Yıldız  ("Those who lived to a ripe old age [died of natural causes?] were few enough to be retained in the memory": not a very succinct translation, I know!)
:Vaktinize hazır olun / Ecel vardır gelir bir gün - Yunus Emre
--NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:14, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ecel 

message: The religious meaning of Mekruh is not "Forbidden", rather the meaning is "disliked", because the arab root K-R-H means "hate, dislike" as opposide to "H-R-M" which means "forbidden, holy". This is the linguistic difference between Makrooh (derived from K-R-H) and Haram (derived from H-R-M). In islamic religious context, there exists two kinds of Makrooh: Makrooh Tanzihan and Makrooh Tahriman, the former being less disliked than the latter. I will replace "Forbidden" with "Disliked". You are free to find an english word better fitting the term. 87.51.211.84 19:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mekruh 

message: "...which were replaced with their Turkish counterparts" - that text is such an outrageous distortion of the truth that this whole article deserves a POV tag. Most of the "Turkish counterpart" words were newly-coined words, often with laughable reasoning behind the coining, and they were not "Turkish" words in any real sense. The phrase "Turkish counterparts" implies a pre-existing Turkish word that was just little-used when compared to the loanword. 
BTW, I've read a claim that as a result of the reforms, the vocabulary used in Turkey shrank from 83,400 words to 26,500 words. A "slaughter of words" was how it was described. I wonder if Orwell's "Newspeak" was in some way inspired by "New Turkish"? Meowy 17:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "...which were replaced with their Turkish counterparts" 

message: "Modern" Turkish speakers can not understant national anthem or Ataturk's famous message to youth.
Whereas English(which has more French words than English ones)speakers could understand English of the 17 th century,Arabs can understand Arabic of the 4-5 th century and Persians can understand Persian of the 9-10 th century.
A part of previously Turkish-thought words are not Turkish like ash,pasha,bayram,aksham.
Also some of grammatical features and conjugation endings are iranian not altaic.
Humanbyrace (talk) 17:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  A paragraph about the fact that modern Turkish became unintelligible with "real" Turkish after this "reform". 

message: I suggest the article be renamed "Replaced Ottoman loanwords in Contemporary Turkish"; the title is more accurate- the article topic is not the merely the list, but the history of word replacement in modern Turkey. Mavigogun (talk) 05:28, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Rename

message: I apologise if I have put this in the wrong place, but I have not yet really learned my way around the system. I am a Turkophile Englishman with reasonable knowledge of the language & was just browsing when I saw the new words given for "lazy". I had thought that "tembel" was the best modern usage, and was surprised not to find it in your list. Am I wrong? In any event, many congrats on the project as a whole; it is invaluable for non-native speakers. 86.185.103.108 (talk) 14:30, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible omission. 

message: Hello everybody.
I, as a native Turkish speaker, must conquer the Turkish word caymak's classification as unusual. As a matter of fact, many of the words in this classification are new to me and to fellow Turkey-Turks, but caymak is a very frequent, known word.
I have no literature which could provide any proof, wherefore I am asking for it to be removed here and am not removing it on my own. Thank you!
Konanen (talk) 22:05, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  vazgeçmek - caymak** 

message: In the French loanwords section, new word for "endemik" is listed as "salgın". However, salgın means "epidemic" (also used in Turkish as "epidemik") whereas endemik does not have a new equivalent. I believe epidemik was meant instead of endemik. Use of salgın is pretty widespread, epidemik is usually used in academical/medical context. http://tdk.org.tr/index.php?option=com_gts&arama=gts Ycanerol (talk) 12:45, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Endemik/epidemik 

message: Admittedly Turkish is not my native language, but I have never, ever heard this word used outside of the context of 'pimp'. Surely pimp makes more sense as the given English translation?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.108.128.73 (talk) 21:46, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pezevenk = procurer? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: During the Ottoman era, the modern Greek language had essentially become useless and that language had hardly any relevance to Turks. Most of the loanwords in Turkish which have Ancient Greek origins were not borrowed directly from the Greek—and certainly did not come from Turks studying Ancient Greek literature or the Bible—but were borrowed from other languages such as Arabic, and, in modern times, French and English.
To put Greek loanwords in the same category as Arabic and Persian is misleading. --User99998 (talk) 22:18, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek loanwords in Turkish 

message: Hello, I would like a source to the piechart at the start if possible. Thanks in advance Sheppik (talk) 17:06, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source to the piechart 

message: We now have :Replacement of loanwords in Turkish, :Turkish language reform and :Öztürkçe, which all more or less cover the same general subject. I propose that we merge these three into one article, of which the title :Turkish language reform is the most all-encompassing and preferable. Any thoughts? Glennznl (talk) 21:07, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any view on this? --Glennznl (talk) 09:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: "Öztürkçe" is more a Wiktionary entry than a WP article, so I'd merge that. But I think it may be worthwhile to keep this list of replaced Perso-Arabic loanwords separate from the main article, and only show a few illustrative examples there. I'd move this article to a "List of" name, though, so its purpose is clear. Maybe move some material from the first couple paras to the main article as well, and only keep enough of an intro to orientate the reader. — kwami (talk) 02:20, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overlapping articles