Talk:Brown Bess

message: From the article: "Stress-bearing parts of the Brown Bess, such as the barrel, lockwork, and sling-swivels, were customarily made of iron; while other furniture pieces such as the butt plate, trigger guard and ramrod pipe were found in both iron and brass. It weighed around 10 pounds (5 kg). It could be fitted with a 17-inch (430 mm) triangular cross-section bayonet. There were no sights on the weapon although the bayonet lug on the barrel may have been used in that manner, similar to the bead on a shotgun."
Several of the above assertions are incorrect, according to military manuals and practices of the day. The guns were most certainly aimed when fired, using a forward sight.
To wit: the well-known military text "A Plan of Discipline for the Use of the
Norfolk Militia" by William Windham, 1759, 1768 edition, includes a plate illustrating a firelock and labeling the various parts.
Several of the parts have names that are not those commonly used by collectors and modern historians; here below are listed, on the left, the names from the primary source, followed by, on the right, the incorrect modern names:
Sight - bayonet lug;
Butt of the Rammer - flat button end of the rammer;
 
Front loop, second loop, third loop - rammer pipes, from muzzle back;
Tail pipe - the rearmost rammer pipe;
Hammer - frizzen;
Cock - hammer;
Swell of the Stock - swell;
Small of the Stock - wrist;
Swell of the Butt - comb;
There are some parts for which we commonly use the same name that is
given in Windham's book:
Barrel;
Stock;
Muzzle;
Feather Spring;
Trigger Guard;
Butt
Additionally, according to De Witt Bailey in "Pattern Dates for British Ordnance
Small Arms 1718-1783", pg. 5, the bayonet "stud" was always referred to
by the Ordnance as the "sight".95thfoot 04:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect assertions

message: Most books on the subject seem to agree that this had a 42" barrel, reverting to the length of the Short Land Pattern and not, as stated on this page, a 39" barrel. This is one of the reasons that a light infantry pattern was developed with the lighter 39" barrel. (Otherwise, why bother?) Having used a Short Land Pattern for some time, now, I have long thought the reason that the guards took on the New Land Pattern was that the longer barrel length is more practical for the taller soldier - the muzzle sits against the shoulder, and not under the armpit! 151.170.240.10 (talk) 15:42, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Land Pattern

message: This rifle was also used by the Maori(native people of New Zealand) during the "Musket Wars" and the "New Zealand Wars". We have one in the Auckland Museum with an intricately carved butt.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.211.82.70 (talk) 04:20, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The New Zealand Wars 

message: The photo of a man firing what is said to be a Brown Bess musket on the Brown Bess page.. it is not a British Brown Bess musket, but instead appears to be a French type musket.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.127.238 (talk) 02:50, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You appear to be correct. Although the filename is Brown Bess Musket firing, the file description says it's a French musket (possibly a Charleville musket) plus it doesn't resemble any of the other muskets pictured in this article so I've removed it. Barret (talk) 13:10, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: File:Brown Bess Musket firing.jpg

message: I'm not convinced that the image described as a New Land Pattern Musket is what it claims to be.  It doesn't match the description or images in De Witt Bailey's 'British Military Longarms 1715-1815' (Bailey being one of the leading authorities on the subject).  The New Land Pattern doesn't have the peculiarly truncated stock shown in the Wikipedia file, and the cock of the flintlock should be flat, not rounded as here (it looks more like the lock from an 1809 Model India Pattern). RoryKat (talk) 19:31, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:New Land Pattern.jpg

message: I apologise if this sounds a bit petty but seeing as Brown Bess is the gun's nickname is it appropriate to use that as the title of this encyclopaedic entry? Surely it would be better to rename the page Land Pattern Musket and have Brown Bess redirect to it?  Just my opinion.  LameCat (talk) 14:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page title 

message: I removed information about the India pattern supposedly being the most accurate as I do not believe this to be true. The material was unsourced.
I also changed the sentence that claimed that the weapon had a crude sight. The Brown Bess that I own does not have a sight and I have never seen a period accurate one with a sight (I have seen crude sights attached to modern Brown Bess muskets but these have been homemade jobs and were not period accurate). That said, I am not familiar with all models. If anyone has information about sights being used on any specific models or during any particular time period either comment here or modify the article with cites.
Engineer comp geek (talk) 19:26, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  India pattern and sights 

message: I'm a native speaker of German with a good vocabulary, and I know of no German word close to "braun" or "brawn" that means "strong", I thus doubt that unsourced claim. "Buss" could well be from or related to the German "Büchse", gun/rifle.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.180.175.183 (talk) 04:08, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Brawn buss" as German? Not likely. 

message: Kipling's poem most possibly "hits the mark"...
:This statement just muddles the story even further. Are you saying that Kipling’s verse may not be referring to a weapon, but to a female camp-follower? Valetude (talk) 16:58, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kipling 

message: The definitive origins of the term, and a rather complete history, have been carefully detailed by Jonathan Fergusonhttp://armamentresearch.com/our-team/ https://royalarmouries.org/about-us/collection-staff/jonathan-ferguson/ in an Arms & Armour journal article. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/17416124.2017.1293886  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.107.140.11 (talk) 02:07, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definitive Origins and History 

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