Talk:Curt Weldon

message: John Murtha has been in the House since 1974. How is Weldon the most senior memeber of the delegation?--Ieverhart 22:38, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seniority? 

message: I fixed up a bit of this page under my collective AOL IP before I remembered to log on; by way of explanation, Wikipedia articles can't use terms like "our nation's first responders," because Wikipedia is an international encyclopedia. Avoid using the first person if at all possible. There's still some cleaning up to be done here, mainly in that same vein. BarrettBrown 16:17, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage 

message: See this --Striver 01:31, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: and check this out. --Striver 05:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 911

message: Why are Congressman Weldon's visits to Korea and Libya labeled under the "Controversies" section? I can understand that there is 'controversy' in the fact that he arranged these trips independently of the White House, even against the wishes of the White House, but that doesn't deserve putting them in the same category of alleged lobbying scandals.
:Good point.  I've moved the sections.  John Broughton 03:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Controversies Section" 

message: This article seems to have been copied and pasted from http://www.answers.com/topic/curt-weldon...
:I think if you read the fine print at answers.com, you'll find that it's the other way around - they are using wikipedia text.   John Broughton  |  Talk 00:57, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copied? 

message: Article contains many criticisms some of which have little merit and there are no rebuttals the report of an fbi investigation on the top of the page in my opinion is an attempt to sway voters and should be moved elsewhere --Ted-m 00:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Removing the timely and relevant Justice Department investigation in the lede and burying it far down in the article is an obviously biased, POV attempt to cover up reality. The Congressman, not his daughter, is under criminal investigation. It's been a lead story in many newspapers and newscasts in the past two days. Sticking it far down in the article is as biased as removing references to Mark Foley's page scandal. It would be perfectly acceptable to include the Congressman's response to the investigation, if there is one. However, there's no such creature as a "rebuttal" to an FBI investigation. You can't disguise the fact that there is now a major criminal investigation, no matter how much you may not like it. It's biased to keep pulling this out of the article lede and burying down with his daughter. This is the most newsworthy and current issue affecting the Congressman at this time. Hiding this very relevant information dozens of paragraphs into the entry is ludicrously biased and POV. Your user page indicates you're a strong supporter of the Congressman; ergo, you are clearly biased in this matter.--207.69.137.23 01:42, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

text: *Additionally, some of the investigation into Weldon regards possible illegal connections to a pair of Serbians who worked for Slobodan Milosevic, which has nothing to do with his daughter.--207.69.137.23 01:59, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My personal bias is that, even by the abysmally low standards set by the House Republicans, Weldon stands out as one who most obviously deserves to be retired.  Nevertheless, the investigation does not belong in the introductory section.  That it is currently newsworth is immaterial; this is an encyclopedia article about his entire life, not a Wikinews update, and journalistic standards do not govern.  The analogy to Foley is inapt.  Foley resigned his seat and withdrew from an ongoing campaign a month before the election.  Weldon has not resigned, has not abandoned his campaign, has not been convicted, has not been indicted, has not even been formally charged.  Those are the sorts of events that would merit consideration for inclusion in the introductory section.  The FBI investigation may result in something like that eventually, but it may not. JamesMLane t c 05:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I agree with 207.69.137.23 that this belongs at the top of the article now. Wikipedia is a flexible encyclopedia that rapidly changes with time. It's not like a print encyclopedia. Your point would be correct for a print encyclopedia, JamesMLane, but not for something like Wikipedia, in my opinion. This information is relevant to Mr. Weldon right now. Before Foley resigned but after the page scandal hit the press, the email/IM incident was mentioned even higher in his article. It was within the first paragraph (it's been edited so many times now it's hard to find). Look at the Bob Ney article right now for comparison. His legal problems are mentioned in the first paragraph. Some of the problem may be is that much of this Curt Weldon article is based on a 2004 template and the issues are, misleadingly, discussed under "controversies." It arguably was a controversy then, but it is now a criminal investigation.4.232.201.239 06:01, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ney pled guilty to multiple felonies.  That's far more important in his bio than a mere investigation is in Weldon's. JamesMLane t c 08:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Before Ney pled guilty, the proceedings against him were nonetheless mentioned in the first few sentences of the article.4.232.111.41 16:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

text: *Each article should be measured against wikipedia standards, not against what was done (properly or not) in another article. The FBI investigation is important and well-sourced; it should be in the top section.  But I'd personally vote for a bit less text in the top of the article (specifically, deleting the second sentence) and a full paragraph in the middle of the article.  The top is really supposed to be a snapshot; the reader then should be able to get more details in the full article below.   John Broughton  |  Talk 11:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Agreed about the snapshot. And agreed this is important. Also, the original complainant, Ted-m, never specified what about the article lacked neutrality. It's a sweeping statement with no specifics.4.232.111.41 16:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I'd like to add just one minor point.  If this investigation ends up costing him his seat, or leads to an actual indictment, it surely would be a major point in his entire life.  Nevertheless, since we can't see into the future, the best we can do is take a snapshot right now, and, indeed, right now this is a fairly important development in his life. -- Sholom 15:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure it's important, and it belongs in the article -- but as of now it's less important than several other subjects that aren't in the introductory section, such as his book.  The book produced an actual run-in between him and the CIA.  His troubles with the FBI, if any, are still hypothetical. JamesMLane t c 00:42, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Not entirely hypothetical. As Congressman Jefferson can attest,  it's never good to have the FBI announce one of these investigations on you.  Damn electorate, they'll up and misinterpret it and before you know it it's a real problem.  :)  69.228.201.80 07:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, the potential electoral impact is part of what makes it important, but it still pales beside the objective indicia of importance: the politician decides not to run again because of the scandal, a prosecutor decides there's enough evidence to begin a formal proceeding, etc.  I agree with John Broughton that each article should be analyzed according to standards, because what was done in some other article isn't necessarily correct, but you can see a couple of instructive comparisons: (1) Weldon's fellow Pennsylvania Republican reprobate, Don Sherwood, admitted to having had a five-year-long adulterous affair, and was sued by his former mistress for trying to strangle her.  This stuff did indeed get "misinterpreted" by some voters.  It's the only reason that Sherwood's formerly safe seat is in play.  Yet, it's not mentioned in the introductory section.  (2) In the example you mention, William J. Jefferson's legal troubles are significant, but they aren't mentioned in the introductory section. JamesMLane t c 08:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WADR, I don't understand your first point.  It doesn't pale in importance if it ends up ending his Congressional career and leads to corruption charges.  As for William J. Jefferson's legal troubles, I think they should be mentioned in the intro section (and, in fact, I just went there and added it). -- Sholom 03:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I said that a mere investigation pales in importance beside actual corruption charges or the ending of his career.  You're right that it's a different situation if one of those things happens, at which time we can reconsider.  I don't think Jefferson's situation should be in is article's intro section, obviously. JamesMLane t c 04:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: *I agree this belongs up in the top of the article now. If it was just the bit last Friday about the supposed investigation, then putting it further down was probably warranted. Now with the FBI raids, it's a big national story. It will probably stay that way through the weekend, when it'll be picked over by the talking head shows and will run in national mags like Time and Newsweek. So if somebody's coming to Wiki to learn more about Weldon, the article should reflect Curt Weldon right now. Wikipedia is a wonderful, fluid resource. Articles can be updated within minutes of breaking news. Right now, Curt Weldon isn't just a congressman. He's a congressman facing a criminal investigation and the FBI has raided his family and friends' homes. That's the big story, that's what defines him right now, and that should be right up in the top of the article right now. In a week or two, things might change, and the article can be reassessed and revised. A lot of the arguments I see here about this topic would be valid if this was something being put in a book, but it's not; it's for Wikipedia, which changes by the milisecond. Embrace Wikipedia for what it is and a book is not: a fluid resource which is constantly changing, adapting, and updating. Peace. UncleFester 05:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're stressing that Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, which is true, but I'm stressing that it's an online encyclopedia.  Updating is certainly proper; the recent news reports should be included in the article.  That doesn't trump the encyclopedic perspective, though.  This biographical article isn't a news story with a "lede".  Embrace Wikinews for what it is! JamesMLane t c 15:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Where is it written that an encyclopedia shouldn't have the most relevant and important information in the first few paragraphs? Your logic seems to be: because this information would be at the top of a news story, it must not be at the top of an encyclopedia entry. Looking at Wikipedia's own definition of an encyclopedia, it "conveys the most relevant accumulated knowledge on that subject." Using John Broughton's excellent "snapshot" analogy, the investigation and raid are the most relevant in this snapshot at this time. Why shouldn't the most relevant material be at the top?4.232.201.166 16:46, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, my logic is not that whatever would be in a news story must be excluded from the introductory section.  My logic is that the standards for the lede in a news story are completely inapplicable to an encyclopedia article.  An introductory section to a Wikipedia article should give the basics about the subject.  For many readers who encounter the name "Curt Weldon", their curiosity will be satisfied once they find out he's a Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania.  The introductory section isn't a "snapshot" in the sense of "here's what hot this week", but rather a précis of the whole article.  If it were to mention the FBI investigation, it should do so only briefly, not with all the detail now present.  Furthermore, to avoid overweighting this one aspect of his bio, an introductory section that included it should also include similar summaries of other aspects of his life, such as his book. JamesMLane t c 23:07, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *A précis is "a concise summary of essential facts," per Webster's. Right now, the criminal investigation is an essential fact about Curt Weldon and therefore belongs in an introductory précis. You say, "[a]n introductory section to a Wikipedia article should give the basics about the subject." Right now, the criminal investigation is part of the basics and, accordingly, belongs in the introduction.4.232.195.7 00:09, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

text: *The revelation today that a grand jury has been impaneled and that evidence has been gathered via wiretaps only underscores the importance of keeping an overview about the criminal investigation at the beginning of the article. This thing has gotten bigger every day. 207.69.139.6 21:47, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  pov dispute (mostly on FBI investigation)

message: Grasping at straws, this page has become a political Anti-Weldon page.  To drag his children into this space, when if you look hard enough, everybody is connected to everybody.  This page is less a bio, and more a political knife.--17:20, 21 October 2006 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.139.165.66 (talk • contribs) 
:Well, the FBI seems to think Weldon and at least one of his daughters are rather closely connected. In any case, if you think that the article violates one or more Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines, feel free to be more specific.   John Broughton  |  Talk 21:53, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Material in print cannot be slander, which is spoken. Written material, such as what appears on Wikipedia, is within the domain of libel. That notwithstanding, an absolute defense to defamation -- both slander and libel -- is the truth. It is a provable fact that the FBI raided Karen Weldon's home. It is a provable fact that the Justice Department is investigating Mr. Weldon, his family, and his associates, a fact to which Mr. Weldon himself has admitted in public. Ergo, there is no "slander" [sic] of anyone here. The only things being reported here are substantiated facts. Once might say, therefore, that the original unsigned commentary was "grasping at straws" in trying to paint something as "slander" when it was nothing but the provable truth. 207.69.137.27 22:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreal how an editable encyclopedia is being used to slander Curt Weldon and his family. 

message: One user tagged this article for POV issues yet never discussed what his/her problems were. As there seemed to be no genuine POV dispute, and it has sat up there for a week with no discussion, I therefore removed it. 207.69.137.205 04:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed POV tag

message: Someone had edited as if tonight's election meant Weldon was out. He still serves until January 2007. 207.69.137.43 04:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Term expires January 2007

message: Under Andrew Weldon, some of the links do not work, that info needs to be removed, I tried to remove it but it keeps poping back up.  22:03, 4 February 2007 {{|unsigned|71.230.133.211}}
:If some links go bad, the first thing an editor should do is try to find replacement links.  Second, if the information in the article did have a linked source at some point, then the informtation is still valid even if the source is now inaccessible - there is no basis for removing it.  If you can't find a replacement source, put a  tag on it or post something in the talk section (encouraging other editors to fix the problem, not complaining about why you can't make the text disappear.  Third, the reason that it keeps "poping back up" is because other editors recognize that the information should stay, and are reverting your deletions.  If you would use an edit summary on your edits to explain why you are trying to delete something, then other editors would at least understand you had some reason for thinking the information should be deleted, other than that you or your friends or whomever didn't want it in Wikipedia because it is embarrassing to Andrew or Curt Weldon. 
 
:Please read Wikipedia:Dead external links and Wikipedia:Using the Wayback Machine for information on how to fix bad links and follow the instructions there, rather than deleting valid information that is without an active link.  -- John Broughton   (☎☎) 15:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad links - Andrew Weldon section 

message: These two sections at the end: Use of campaign funds and Conviction of former aide seem kind of minor too me. It is perfectly normal to use campaign funds for meals and hotel rooms during the campaign. And why should information about a former aide be included in this article?  I suggest both sections be removed as being off-topic or at least giving undue weight. Steve Dufour (talk) 12:55, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Questionable sections

message: These sections don't belong here, if they are notable they should have their own articles. Off2riorob (talk) 19:40, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree as per WP:BLPNAME, in addition to the WP:WELLKNOWN section of Public Figures, as much of the section does not show multiple sources. I'll take a look at removing them. Jeremy112233 (talk) 23:16, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I was careful to leave as much of the controversy facts intact while respecting the rules against roping in family I quoted above. Looks like the article could use a touch-up as well, I might get to that too if times permits. Jeremy112233 (talk) 00:02, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sections about the children 

message: This morning (April 6, 11 a.m. Eastern Daylight time) -- news has been released that he is meeting with the besieged Libyan dictator -- no further details given :
Laura Rozen for a YAHOO! news service has posted these details
Former Pennsylvania Congressman Curt Weldon is in Libya to try to persuade Muammar Gadhafi to step down. CNN  reports:
Former U.S. Rep. Curt Weldon said he is set to meet with Moammar Gadhafi on Wednesday in an attempt to persuade Libya's embattled ruler to step down.
Weldon will also meet Wednesday with Libyan Deputy Foreign Minister Khalid Khaim, the Republican from Pennsylvania told CNN on Wednesday. ...
Weldon told CNN that in addition to Gadhafi stepping down, he is proposing a cease-fire on both sides; a withdrawal of government forces from key cities; no further advances by rebel forces; a joint interim government run by Libya's current prime minister and the an opposition leader; unfettered humanitarian access; and the establishment of a parliamentary commission that would include American, Middle Eastern, European and African politicians helping to establish a new parliament in Libya.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/20110406/ts_yblog_theenvoy/former-rep-weldon-in-libya-to-meet-gadhafi
Time will tell if this is part of the brokering to get the dictator out of his "palaces" to another haven.
Timothyjshaw (talk) 15:46, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  He is in Libya for talks with Muammar Gadhafii / Khadaffi 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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