Talk:Nitrogen cycle

message: What this page could use is a lovely diagram if anyone artistic is inclined to do so... -- Booyabazooka 03:17, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Onco p53 22:45, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Hi, I'm writing an article to expand upon Human Influences on the N Cycle. I may just make a new page and link this one to it. I'm new to this, so please let me know what you think! ;)
--
I Agree on more about human influences, or perhaps a new category.  We talk here about all the negative effects, I want to know overall if this is something people need to be concerned about, and what is or can be done about it. Also what can consumers do to help, like should we be avoiding certain foods like Soy to help solve this dilemma?  Are there any foods that we can eat more often to balance the cycle?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.23.152.18 (talk) 09:58, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Human Influences on the N Cycle

message: This section uses the phrase "several states". If "several states in the U.S." is meant, it should say that, since Wikipedia is international; otherwise if "Several countries" is meant, that would be clearer language..  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Harel (talk • contribs) 21:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Wastewater

message: === Fact-checking About Nitrobacter ===
I'm no biochemist, but I've seen other sources on the web that claim that while Nitrobacter spp. are primary oxidizers of soil-based nitrites, in aquatic environments, Nitrosospira spp. and Nitrospira spp. (which are apparently under a separate phylum or something) appear to play a dominant role.
Here is one research paper that appears (to my chemistry-challenged mind) to assert this:
“Identification and Activities In Situ of Nitrosospira and Nitrospira spp. as Dominant Populations in a Nitrifying Fluidized Bed Reactor”
Here is another:
“Nitrospira-Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria”dumboooooooooo
Are there any biochemists out there who have access to current peer-reviewed, journal-published research on this point (and maybe more importantly the know-how to understand the gist of this research and to translate it elegantly into layman's terms)?  Thanks!  
—Iguana Scales 16:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  “Nitrogen Cycle in Aquariums” Section 

message: I'm no biochemist, but I've seen other sources on the web that claim that while Nitrobacter spp. are primary oxidizers of soil-based nitrites, in aquatic environments, Nitrosospira spp. and Nitrospira spp. (which are apparently under a separate phylum or something) appear to play a dominant role.
Here is one research paper that appears (to my chemistry-challenged mind) to assert this:
“Identification and Activities In Situ of Nitrosospira and Nitrospira spp. as Dominant Populations in a Nitrifying Fluidized Bed Reactor”
Here is another:
“Nitrospira-Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria”dumboooooooooo
Are there any biochemists out there who have access to current peer-reviewed, journal-published research on this point (and maybe more importantly the know-how to understand the gist of this research and to translate it elegantly into layman's terms)?  Thanks!  
—Iguana Scales 16:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fact-checking About ''Nitrobacter'' 

message: Oops.  Well, apparently the “Nitrogen Cycle” subsection under the “Aquarium article” addresses this point nicely.
dang you
However, the “Nitrogen Cycle in Aquariums” section under this (“Nitrogen Cycle”) entry hasn't been updated to reflect these more recent research findings re Nitrospira.
Additionally, the assertions under Aquarium→Nitrogen Cycle aren't accompanied with citations.  So I think I'll add the two sources I included above to that article.  Anybody with solid biochem credentials can certainly overrule me on this and/or replace my citations with more recent/representative ones.
—Iguana Scales 16:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update 

message: Does the aquarium-related stuff really belong here?
--Satyrium 17:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Natural nitrogen cycle 

message: Treatment plants with NPDES permits under the US Clean Water Act are restricted in their (toxic) ammonia discharge, but not their (nontoxic) nitrate discharge.  Furthermore nitrate plays a relatively insignificant in eutrophication relative to phosphorus, water temperature and oxygen demanding constituents (raw waste, garbage, fuel, lubricants).  I toyed with the idea of a bold rewrite of thissection, but in the end I have to agree that nitrate plays some role in contributing to eutrophication.
Nitrate is bound weakly to an anion exchange capacity comprised mostly of humic substance, another reason why a soil with high organic matter is more protective of the environment than the same soil with low SOM
Denitrification isn't literally the reverse of nitrification or it would produce ammoinium from nitrate.
A exceedingly minor, hair-splitting, point to make here. Nitrogen isn't lost out of the nitrogen cycle to the atmosphere, it is returned and remains within the cycle.  A poor comparison but I am reminded of the old adage, you don't buy beer in a saloon, you can only rent it for a few minutes. <soapbox> The oxidative power of nitrate is too attractive for it not to be used by the soil microbial population anytime a flush of metabolic activity causes oxygen demand to exceed supply.  That is a good and natural phenomenon to celebrate (its alive!).  To bemoan denitrification as a loss is to take a narrow anthropocentric zero-sum mass balance point of view that doesn't have much to do with what the nitrogen cycle really is. </soapbox> 
Paleorthid 18:34, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ammonia thoughts 

message: where would we be if 78% of our atmosphere wasnt nitrogen.How would  wildlife be complete without Nitogen?I would like everyone to think about these comments.if that russian guy would've not thought about this periodic table maybe we would still all be in ahh.now some may think im a comedian scientist or maybe just a dumbass but i think im just another curious person who thanks you  all very much for reading my comments.PEACE 2 all!
I am not quite sure where this should go under.. but what happens to all this nitrogen that gets fixed?  Will we ever run out of nitrogen.. I mean its not exactly recycled into the atmosphere but 'fixed' permanently..
: It is recycled, that is why it is the nitrogen cycle. Denitrification converts nitrates to nitrogen. As for what the planet would be without nitrogen, basically on fire as the atmosphere would be almost entirely oxygen. Smartse (talk) 01:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  what would life be like 

message: Rather important!
See:   Fenn, M.E., Ecological Effects of Nitrogen Deposition in the Western United States., BioScience, April 2003, V53 No 4.
Scedacity (talk) 15:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing anthropogenic NOx -> eutrophication, foliage damage 

message: The current diagram is incorrect in that it does not show any of the human processes. These now exceed the natural processes and the diagram needs to be changed accordingly. Smartse (talk) 12:20, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Use this as a source Smartse (talk) 22:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diagram 

message: Isn't fixation by lightning a significant source of terrestrial nitrogen?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.94.224 (talk) 18:19, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Check the link in the above thread, it is a pretty tiny contributor in the scheme of things. The current wording of "Some fixation occurs in lightning strikes, but most fixation is done by free-living or symbiotic bacteria." seems ok. We don't have anything about it in Nitrogen fixation though, feel free to add something. Smartse (talk) 21:11, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixation by Lightning 

message: If The amount of N2 per year due to man removed from the atmosphere is a measure of one of the Planetary boundaries. not relevant here, where?   99.19.46.34 (talk) 03:47, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Before deciding, notability and veracity of this claim should be supported by reliable sources. Materialscientist (talk) 03:52, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Planetary boundaries 

message: With changes at Planetary boundaries, 
reinstate "The amount of N2 per year due to man removed from the atmosphere is a measure of one of the Planetary boundaries."  99.190.81.244 (talk) 04:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm still opposed, and "due to man" is not part of the boundary.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 07:50, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not bothered either way - it seems most relevant in the section on N fixation (since this is the removal of N from the atmosphere) or in the human influences section. Arthur - if our article is to be trusted the boundry is "Limit industrial and agricultural fixation of N2 to 35 Tg N/yr" which are "due to man". If it is included some context about the PBs should be included - I'd never heard of them until seeing the comments above and so I guess that most readers of the article never will have either. SmartSE (talk) 12:44, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Most readers haven't heard about PBs, because they are a new (2009?) concept, which may not have "buy-in" even in the environmental community.  It's also not clear what they are:  There are these 7–9 specific boundaries, or are they about the general concept of a "planetary boundary" (which I might consider notable, if someone talked about it).  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 18:42, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Martijn Meijering (talk) 19:44, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is now "Amount of N2 per year removed from the atmosphere by industrial and agricultural fixation", so how about "The amount of N2 per year removed from the atmosphere by industrial and agricultural fixation is a measure of one of the Planetary boundaries"?  216.250.156.66 (talk) 00:25, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: See new excerpt below ...  216.250.156.66 (talk) 19:33, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  With changes at [[Planetary boundaries]], reinstate "The amount of N<sub>2</sub> per year due to man removed from [[Atmosphere of Earth|the atmosphere]] is a measure of one of the Planetary Boundaries." 

message: * Boundary issue Biogeochemical 
* Suggested indicator Nitrogen cycle: amount of nitrogen per year removed from the atmosphere by industrial and agricultural fixation
* Suggested limit 35 Tg N/yr
Add "The Biogeochemical nitrogen cycle is a Planetary boundaries metric."  97.87.29.188 (talk) 21:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Justification?  Notablity of the term "planetary boundaries" as applied to those 9 boundaries, as opposed to the general concept?  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 23:21, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Only seven of the nine are currently defined: metrics.  If metricized, not general.  99.181.141.190 (talk) 05:58, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Add The Nitrogen biogeochemical cycle is a Planetary boundaries metric, with a "nitrogen removed from the atmosphere (millions of tonnes per year)" parameter.  19:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Still no reason for the addition; it gives the article "planetary boundaries" more status than it deserves.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 21:32, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, it even seems designed to do just that, in other words it appears to be POV pushing. Martijn Meijering (talk) 22:23, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Revised Planetary boundaries has "anthropogenic nitrogen removed from the atmosphere (millions of tonnes per year)" for Control variable.  99.56.123.49 (talk) 23:49, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Still no reason for inclusion.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 02:19, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: See continuing updating Planetary boundaries Control variable "a) anthropogenic nitrogen removed from the atmosphere (millions of tonnes per year)" http://www.nature.com/climate/2009/0910/full/climate.2009.93.htmlThe Nitrogen Fix: Breaking a Costly Addiction Fred Pearce, Yale Environment 360, 22 February 2011.UNEP Year Book 2010: New Science and Developments in Our Changing Environment UNEP, .Howarth, Robert (2010) Nitrogen Cycle in "Boundaries for a Healthy Planet" by J Foley et al., Scientific American, April 2010.Earth's nine life-support systems: Nitrogen and phosphorus cycles Fred Pearce, New Scientist, 24 February 2010.    99.112.214.230 (talk) 01:47, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we could have a unified discussion at Talk:Planetary boundaries to see if any of these are at all plausible.  I don't think so, and some editors have reported your (the IP's) edits as disruptive.  I don't think that they are intentionally disruptive, but WP:COMPETENCE may need to be kept in mind.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 01:53, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Speak for yourself, Art, or aren't you already, per WP:CIR ....   99.190.86.162 (talk) 23:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Some editors are incompetent everywhere.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 00:05, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  With the changes to ''Planetary boundaries'' ... Add "The [[Biogeochemical cycle|biogeochemical]] Nitrogen cycle is a [[Planetary boundaries]] metric." 

message: Upon reading the sentence "In plants, much of the nitrogen is used in chlorophyll molecules, which are essential for photosynthesis and further growth." under the 'Ecological function' heading I looked up if the chloroplast molecule has an extreme abundance of nitrogen atoms (and I missed something in school), but it doesn't, just 4 as part of the haem (heme) sub-structure. It seems to overly emphasise the importance of chlorophyll as a nitrogen stock pile. The same could than be said for our red blood cells. I can not consult the reference given "Smil, V (2000). Cycles of Life. Scientific American Library, New York., 2000)" but the author does not seem likely to have a background in molecular plant biology to support this. Can anyone verify if the reference supports this claim? For example by demonstrating that a vast amount of plant biomass is chlorophyll? Otherwise a proteins (with amino acids having C-N ratios between 2:1 (histidine) - 9:1 (phenylalanine) will outdo chlorophyll molecules easily (C:N ratio of 14:1 for chlorophyll a).
I propose to remove the entire sentence, as it does not add anything to the section, if it is not true.82.95.192.39 (talk) 10:44, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing that out. It's obviously not correcy as you have pointed out. It's possible that it should have said rubisco (the most abundant protein on earth) instead of chlorophyll, but I can't see the source. It doesn't seem particularly relevant to the cycle regardless. SmartSE (talk) 12:43, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "much of the nitrogen is used in chlorophyll molecules" --> too much emphasis? --> Remove? 

message: Substituted at 01:19, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: I've noticed that the article only talks about the impacts on aquatic environments even though there have been studies showing the impacts it has on various other biomes, so I'm going to try to add some information for the environmental impacts on terrestrial biomes. I'm new to editing wiki pages- this is part of an assignment for a university course but I would like to make as meaningful of a contribution as I can, so please let me know if there's anything that I can do to improve my contributions. I'm consulting a synthesis of nitrogen deposition effects Bobbink, R. , Hicks, K. , Galloway, J. , Spranger, T. , Alkemade, R. , Ashmore, M. , Bustamante, M. , Cinderby, S. , Davidson, E. , Dentener, F. , Emmett, B. , Erisman, J. , Fenn, M. , Gilliam, F. , Nordin, A. , Pardo, L. and De Vries, W. (2010), Global assessment of nitrogen deposition effects on terrestrial plant diversity: a synthesis. Ecological Applications, 20: 30-59. doi:10.1890/08-1140.1 and possibly also an article on American air pollution thresholds Fenn, Mark E; Lambert, Kathleen F.; Blett, Tamara F.; Burns, Douglas A.; Pardo, Linda H.; Lovett, Gary M.; Haeuber, Richard A.; Evers, David C.; Driscoll, Charles T.; Jeffries, Dean S. 2011. Setting limits: Using air pollution thresholds to protect and restore U.S. ecosystems. Issues in Ecology, Report Number 14. J.S. Baron, Editor-in-Chief. Ecological Society of America. Washington, D.C. 21 p. https://www.fs.usda.gov/treesearch/pubs/41652 that also contains some information about the effects of nitrogen deposition on terrestrial ecosystems, which isn't necessarily America-centric. (I believe I've cited those properly, so please let me know if I've made a mistake in the formatting).Sarahrokosh (talk) 15:31, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Environmental Impacts Section Improvement 

message: It is now known that the terrestrial nitrogen cycle includes the de-polymerization of N‐containing organic polymers by microbial enzymes (such as urease) in the soil (Schimel, J.P. & Bennett, J. (2004). Nitrogen mineralization: challenges of a changing paradigm. Ecology, 85, 591-602), because all plants (not just legumes) can directly access organic N molecules such as urea. They have evolved specific mechanisms to acquire, assimilate and/or transport them (Witte, C-P., (2011). Urea metabolism in plants. Plant Science 180, 431-438). Urea can be taken up by both roots and leaves, and plants can compete effectively with microorganisms for organic nitrogen in soil. Nitrification to inorganic ammonium or nitrate is not always necessary for plants to absorb nitrogen (Ma, Z., Guo, D., Xu, X., Lu, M., Bardgett, R.D., Eissenstat, D.M. & Hedin, L.O. (2018). Evolutionary history resolves global organization of root functional traits. Nature, 555, 94–97).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sally Wilkinson Levity (talk • contribs) 12:20, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plants can access organic nitrogen directly. 

message: Please change the sentence "This figure summaries the global cycling of reactive nitrogen" to "This figure summarizes the global cycling of reactive nitrogen" because "summarizes" is the correct verb conjugation, "summaries" is not a verb, and the sentence needs a verb. Armatures1 (talk) 13:53, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Minor edit only. Thanks for catching that. —KuyaBriBriTalk 14:56, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2019 

message: Hi! I recently came across an interesting finding that counters paradigm on nitrogen cycle. 
Nitrogen available for plant growth mainly comes from the N fixation, but a considerable amount comes from rock weathering too. According to this article published on Science by Houlton et al, 8 to 26 percent of the nitrogen in ecosystems is sourced from rocks.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wenyiii (talk • contribs) 04:07, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emphasize rock source N? 

message: At the beginning of the entry, " The majority of Earth's atmosphere (78%) is atmosphere nitrogen", should be - " The majority of Earth's atmosphere (78%) is atmospheric nitrogen." Jimmycrackedcorn-originial (talk) 10:34, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Terasail[✉] 17:54, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 6 January 2021 

message: 2405:8D40:4C72:573B:BD11:CF98:B592:62CC (talk) 02:35, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 05:22, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 September 2023