Talk:Groundhog Day

message: How do they make sure that the groundhog comes out of its den on February 2?  Does it come out of its den every day? How do they locate the den? And how do we know the observers aren't scaring the poor thing back in with all the fuss and commotion?  And who picks the groundhog, anyhow?  Pauxetawny Phil hasn't been the same animal since 1850!  And what ahppens if he dies in his den over winter and doesn't come out at all?
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C08C:A6F0:219:E3FF:FE04:C392 (talk) 13:24, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: All your questions are answered by Punxsutawney Phil. Maybe the general principles of the  process should be added here too.  Heenan73 (talk) 18:02, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

text: They reach into Phil's den with a gloved hand and drag him out.Flight Risk (talk) 16:33, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Questions

message: This table gets longer each year with new prognostications. Since Wikipedia isn't just a compilation of lists, I suggest paring down this table to the most recent predictions. Thoughts?Wkharrisjr (talk) 13:02, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems pretty pointless to have the table at all without recording the accuracy of each prediction. And I agree that the groundhog selection seems arbitrary, especially as at least five have their own page and only two of them are included. Just seems random, rather than informative.  Heenan73 (talk) 17:56, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It's just a bunch of well-sourced useless trivia, and would be better off removed. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 16:09, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I did that just now, after a false positive by a bot.  I am glad to see that others see it as trivia. I cam here to read up a bit on the day after watching our traditional Bill Murray film yesterday, to scroll and scroll and scroll through bonkers details about stuff that isn't related to Groundhog Day at all. TheValeyard (talk) 02:22, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Some editors do not believe that the table is trivial. See "Discuss: Predictions of various groundhogs since 2008" below. Corker1 (talk) 18:49, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean Up Predictions table

message: The article currently lists Dunkirk Dave as living in Dunkirk, New York.  This is incorrect.  Though he is named for Dunkirk, Dunkirk Dave lives in the Buffalo Zoo in Buffalo, New York.Floggolozzo (talk) 21:55, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a source or citation for this fact?  I did some casual Googling, and according to a 2010 article in Dunkirk's Observer paper, "With cloudy skies above Dunkirk Dave's den on Farmlane Drive in the town of Dunkirk, the weather-forecasting groundhog predicted early spring weather for Western New York."   Alphageekpa (talk) 22:53, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Dunkirk Dave

message: Removed the following content from the "In Popular Content" section as non-notable.  Alphageekpa (talk) 22:16, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup of "In Popular Culture"

message: If a groundhog sees it shadow that should signify that winter will end, because it is sunny  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seisho11 (talk • contribs) 23:03, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Ground

message: It probably was overkill to list so many weather lore rhymes for Candlemas that didn't involve any animals, as in this version , nevertheless, there shouldn't have been a purged all.
My edit did add (or add back) the "twa winters in the year" rhyme, which was mentioned in a Groundhog Day origins column in a 19th cent. magazine.
More relevant was the German couplet about the badger (Dachs) sunbathing on Candlemas (Lichtmeß), given here by user:Concord. I used a slight variant of it, which was attached with Uwe Johnson's remark that it resembled the Groundhog Day lore.
If Kuhn's comment was added by Pp.paul.4, it seems to have been removed.--Kiyoweap (talk) 17:03, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weather lore with animal 

message: In the history section, the following appears: "During Winter the groundhog usually vacations on the sun for warm weather."  I don't know what was intended, but clearly some other word than "vacations" is needed here.  Anyone?  50.73.160.209 (talk) 15:44, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It was reverted. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 16:11, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction needed in History section 

message: How does one request that a page be protected re: vandalism?  Some of the recent (last few days, since Feb. 2) edits have been deliberately disruptive, like the introduction edit about kickflips and the groundhog turning into a whale. Damon Killian (talk) 14:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted that edit and warned the editor. Since this article is about an annual event, there's always going to be some disrputive edits each February. But they're usually caught and reverted quickly. By the way, always start a thread at the bottom of the page, not the top. Thanks. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 16:11, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism 2013

message: Section needs comparitive information - how accurate are 6 week forecasts by modern meteoroligists? how accurate is say the farmer's almanac? etc.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.51.66.32 (talk) 11:27, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meteorological accuracy 

message: Howdy!
I was browsing over here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cailleach#Legends and it certainly seems to be related.  
Of course, this is covered in the article by discussing--though briefly--Imbolc...  however, Imbolc is the festival, and involves "Saint Brigid" visiting people's houses and blessing people who made for her a bed and leave her food and drink.  The actual folklore about the Divine hag gathering firewood is a small note on the Imbolc page.  
I would venture that the Groundhog day page could do with more direct mention about the Celtic deity gathering firewood and the weather prediction aspect--if only a line or two.  That said, I'm no expert on the topic--Celtic goddesses or groundhogs!-- and would prefer to leave this potential edit to people more comfortable with the topics than I. :)
ColbyWolf (talk) 18:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cailleach 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Groundhog Day. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120904053620/http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/83342432.html to http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/83342432.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110202083801/http://www.redandblack.com/2011/02/01/athens%e2%80%99-groundhog-emerges-to-predict-spring/ to http://www.redandblack.com/2011/02/01/athens%E2%80%99-groundhog-emerges-to-predict-spring/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120524021414/http://www.wuwm.com/news/wuwm_news.php?articleid=7684 to http://www.wuwm.com/news/wuwm_news.php?articleid=7684
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120426090049/http://www.wcbcradio.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=19924&Itemid=35 to http://www.wcbcradio.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=19924&Itemid=35
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110614234306/http://www.cbs42.com/content/wakeup/story/Smith-Lake-Jake-Visits-Wake-Up/jj7RLrHtIk6AO5JBW0jpyw.cspx to http://www.cbs42.com/content/wakeup/story/Smith-Lake-Jake-Visits-Wake-Up/jj7RLrHtIk6AO5JBW0jpyw.cspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100206115926/http://www.google.com:80/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gxUy7cl4UkBpd1_Jg7Wi8h9m_PoQ to http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gxUy7cl4UkBpd1_Jg7Wi8h9m_PoQ
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090208074258/http://www.wvmetronews.com:80/index.cfm?func=displayfullstory&storyid=28619 to http://www.wvmetronews.com/index.cfm?func=displayfullstory&storyid=28619
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090202070607/http://www.sunprairiechamber.com:80/Groundhog-Day.109.0.html to http://www.sunprairiechamber.com/Groundhog-Day.109.0.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081219224338/http://www.newsobserver.com:80/news/story/920232.html to http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/920232.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 16:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Should there not be a reference to the Christian feast of Candlemas in this article? The date is the same and it also involves celebration of light / end of winter. There must be a connection somewhere.
Franciscus montmartinensis (talk) 18:36, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Groundhog day versus Candlemas 

message: While we're at it, two editors have expressed the opinion (by removing it, only to be restored by Corker1) that the "Incidents" section is also unencyclopedic. I agree with them. It's another collection of anecdotal clippings of no lasting importance, referring to recent 'hog-bites-man stories in the "news" media. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 21:03, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: If Groundhog Day lacked both the past predictions table and the "Incidents" section, the article would be brief, concise, and not worth reading. Corker1 (talk) 23:13, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right about two out of three. Wikipedia articles are not for your amusement. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 23:15, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Any input from other editors? So far we have three who don't think it belongs here, and one who does. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 01:20, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:   Discuss: Incidents 

message: Glasgowuc3m, you shouldn't be adding other prognostications like Paul the Octopus here just because you think believe it's similar enough. You have to be able to back it with some scholar/expert on Ground Hog Day saying it is relevant (and preferably on what grounds). If nobody provides the requisite WS:RS (reliable source) it will be deemed WP:OR (original research) and will be subject to removal.
As there already is an Paul the Octopus that exist, I suggest you move your contributions to that page and source it properly. --Kiyoweap (talk) 00:32, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I axed the section entirely. This article is about Groundhog Day and some similar weather-predicting creatures, not a general compendium of animal prognosticators. TheValeyard (talk) 14:52, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul the Octopus 

message: Re the oldest Morris diary entry which mentions "Groundhog day", the entry for February 2, 1840 and February 4, 1841 reads differently so I'm accepting the 1840 date.
This brings me to the fact the mention of the Feb 4 1841 entry had existed since a long time ago (18:49, 2 February 2006) but I didnt see it because it had been deleted 3 days before. Such removal shouldnt be done unilaterally and should be discussed.--Kiyoweap (talk) 02:52, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Morris diary 

message: I am also removing the pharase "Second Winter" (used in the Time magazine article) since this is not really a term with any history that has been used in commentary about the Ground Hog (googling shows that usage is new). I believe it is a paraphrase of the "two winters", but that phrase appears in a couplet/distich that does not refer to an animal. --Kiyoweap (talk) 04:56, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second Winter 

message: Across the U.S., there are several places where groundhogs, badgers, beavers, and the like are either not common or not plentiful and the people there have used more common/plentiful local animals to do on Groundhog Day what Punxsutawney Phil does.
For example, in Arizona there's Agua Fria Freddie, a rattlesnake who prognosticates the opposite of Phil.  If Freddie sees his shadow, Spring is just around the corner, but if there is no shadow, then there'll be six more weeks of Winter.  According to some, Freddie has a 98.8% accuracy rate!http://www.azfamily.com/story/34408589/punxsutawney-phil-predicts-6-more-weeks-of-winter
In short, why not include a section of the other animals 'used' on Groundhog Day to predict either the continuation of winter or the coming of spring?
To me, the prognostication - - - regardless of the animal involved - - - is a major part of the article/entry.
Thoughts ?  2600:8800:786:A300:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 22:41, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The challenge would be in finding third-party reliable sources for the material. For example, in the Seattle area, for years now a morning TV news program (KCPQ - Q13, a Fox affiliate station) has been promoting the alternative of Rufus the Mountain Beaver (a taxidermied animal they borrow from Seattle’s Discovery Park Environmental Learning Center) - arguing that groundhogs are not native to the Pacific Northwest. There are sources on their website, which would normally be considered a reliable source ... but in this case, it wouldn't be a third-party source; and I'm not aware of any other news coverage by other reliable sources. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:55, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other "Groundhog Day" animals 

message: Metaphorical use of the term? 
On the BBC news website, I read:
Merle Hoffman, who founded the Choices Women's Medical Centre in New York in 1970, welcomes the change in the (Reproductive Health Act (RHA)) law, but feels it is "overdue".
"I have been working in this field for 48 years. It feels like I've been living in Groundhog day."''
Could someone explain how this relates to "Groundhog Day"?
81.48.12.114 (talk) 12:02, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Article talk pages are for discussing improvements to their associated articles, not for general discussion of the articles' topics. - SummerPhDv2.0 16:19, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

text: To add a section discuss the use of the title in a metaphor, we would need reliable sources discussing the use of the title in a metaphor. We cannot take examples and write a section explaining it. - SummerPhDv2.0 02:40, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Off topic chat 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:52, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: I found no evidence of observance in Australia. Can this be removed from the primary description, or at least ask for a citation? There is also this discussion from the archive which talks about this seeming to be untrue or at least unsubstantiated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Groundhog_Day/Archive_1#Adelaide%2C_Australia Borateen (talk) 16:21, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The archived talk page discussion is very old (2007), but I see nothing about Australia in the article except for its mention in the lead, and it wouldn't make sense to observe it there anyway.  I'm going to assume that this was left over from an old version of the article that claimed some observance in Australia that has since been deleted as nonsense, or perhaps re-inserted subtly since then.  Unless someone can come up with a reason why (and a citation to a reliable source therefor) a "North American" celebration would be observed in "the United States, Canada, and Australia", I'm deleting it.  P Aculeius (talk) 16:29, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Australia 

message: In Irish folklore the hedgehog was the animal who looked out for their shadow on Candlemas day. The hedgehog is a hibernating animal unlike the badger who remains active throughout winter.  195.59.140.121 (talk) 19:13, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Groundhog Day 

message: The article describes that if he sees his shadow, it's 6 weeks till spring, but if he doesn't, how long will it be? it's just "sooner"? --Okayjg (talk) 09:18, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  How long if it doesn't see the it's shadow? 

message: This article contains statistics about predictions without giving information about what is meant by "six more weeks of spring".  Does anyone have a definition from a reliable source?
:It's six more weeks of winter, not spring.  And the meaning is transparent; either winter weather will continue, or spring will come early.  As it happens, winter ends just less than seven weeks after Groundhog Day, so "six more weeks of winter" is what would normally be expected.  But I doubt many people find the concept confusing!  P Aculeius (talk) 04:52, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry it was a typo.  However the issue remains: what defines the difference between winter and spring for the groundhog?  Officially it is always the equinox, but that has nothing to do with the groundhog.  So how do we evaluate accuracy? What do we measure? LaurentianShield (talk) 02:45, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: This tradition is about folklore, not science.  We don't know whether the groundhog is supposed to have a motivation besides checking to see what the weather is like, or deciding whether to go back to bed for another six weeks.  Each source is entitled to state whether, in its opinion or according to its research, the groundhog is more often right or wrong.  Although I'll point out that the weather differs from place to place, as well as throughout the day, so each groundhog is entitled to his or her own opinion.  Presumably Punxsutawney Phil's predictions are only valid for the greater Punxsutawney area.  Consult your local groundhog for your weather, and perhaps you can submit records of his or her accuracy to the National Weather Service!  P Aculeius (talk) 02:58, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need definitions