Talk:Siegfried Sassoon

message: Blanked this page rather than deleting it.  I don't really care if people try to use a talk page as a chat room as long as they don't delete anything useful.  Deb 07:09, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blanked 

message: "Rather than court-martial Sassoon, the military authorities decided that he was unfit for service, and sent him to Craiglockhart War Hospital near Edinburgh, where he was officially treated for neurasthenia ('shell shock')."
I'm no expert but would not have thought that neurasthenia was the same as shell shock.  The first was also known as nervous exhaustion, or a form of clinical depression, the second is what we would now call post-traumatic stress disorder.  Anyone able to clear this up? Flapdragon 01:09, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen a copy of the admissions book for Craiglockhart; everyone in it (with possibly one or two exceptions) is down as "neurasthenia". The concept of shellshock wasn't well understood, then, and a lot of the medical terms applied were either different from how they'd be used in a contemporary sense - or simply misdiagnoses. It's generally accepted, I believe, that most of the neurasthenic cases were likely forms of PTSD, just not seen as such. Shimgray 01:15, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I suppose in an ideal world someone would amend the neurasthenia article to that effect (i.e. that it could cover shell-shock/PTSD), and likewise at shell-shock (combat stress reaction) - but I for one am not remotely qualified to do that. Flapdragon
In Goodbye to all that Graves says that shell-shock was officially classified as neurasthenia Spicemix (talk) 08:38, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neurasthenia and shell shock 

message: Note to Sassoon enthusiasts -- this may be a good opportunity and place to mention that the annual conference of the Siegfried Sassoon Fellowship will take place on Saturday, 1st October, at Marlborough College, Wiltshire.  Deb 17:22, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conference 

message: I think most of the edits by the anon were reasonable, and I suspect the source is Max Egremont's new biography.  Not sure about Canon Loraine being half-Jewish, though, or about Alfred Sassoon's mother going into mourning. Deb 12:45, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The edits were so large that the 'compare versions' tool made it almost impossible to determine what if anything had changed, and as there was no edit summary, I felt the best thing was to revert.  We can try to identify and re-introduce the changes more incrementally  along with appropriate edit summaries.  Of course, it would be easier for the original contributor(s) to do this. — Stumps 14:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Deb 18:14, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New edits

message: What was the reason for deleting the photograph of the older Sassoon? Deb 16:59, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was probably unsourced. Arniep 20:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was the second of George Sassoon's photos, as mentioned above by Wjbean.  I think it should be restored. Deb 11:46, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was restored, but the image has been modified. It is severely pixelated. William (Bill) Bean 12:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted image

message: I find it difficult to accept that a lengthy article could be written about Siegfried Sassoon that does not mention On Passing the New Menin Gate. I will attempt to rectify this soon. Ben-w 13:08, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good for you!  It's worthy of a mention. Deb 14:15, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I wouldn't argue with your reasoning -- but, yes, there is evidence that he didn't consider the consequences of his actions.  He makes this quite clear in everything he wrote about this part of his life. He was distraught because of the death of a friend, and had no concern whatever for his own safety. Deb 20:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: On Passing the New Menin Gate

message: Why is the article's title in yellow ? Machete97 (talk) 21:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title colour 

message: There is a Sassoon room at Cambridge University Library. Should this be mentioned as a source of research meterial? -- wloveral  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.82.171.96 (talk) 22:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cambridge University Library 

message: The article says: "Siegfried Sassoon was born at Weirleigh hospital (which still stands)" I very much LIKE the way this is worded... I only wanted to ask if "(which still stands)" needs a date or something attached to it, to clarify at what point the author stated that it was still standing. Maybe "which still stands as of 2007" or something? It may be fine as it is now, I just wanted to ask. Fallendarling (talk) 14:13, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weirleigh hospital clarification 

message: I do prefer the second, sepia 1915 photograph more than the 1916, as the main image, due to greater clarity, sharpness, and tidiness. Maybe I'll be bold and just switch them after a few days, if no one objects here. EryZ (talk) 07:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I wouldn't object. Deb (talk) 11:43, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead picture 

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thread_title: File:Siegfried Sassoon signature.svg Nominated for Deletion

message: "...his views on what may be called 'gritty realism' "
Whose views? It's not clear.
When that's fixed, we should change 'gritty realism', which is stale, and weakened by the timid single quotes.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.176.105.150 (talk) 13:03, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Western Front: Military Cross 

message: The article currently states that Hamo Sassoon died around spring 1915, and cites the CWGC, whereas the CWGC gives Hamo's date of death as 1 November 1915 (i.e. the autumn). Which is correct? --IxK85 (talk) 16:42, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: 1 November is correct.  I'll fix it and add a ref.  Thanks for pointing that out. Deb (talk) 16:46, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hamo Sassoon's date of death. 

message: The link to the lecture on Sassoon biographer by Max Egremont leads to what seems to be the site of the production company, with no obvious way of getting to the lecture itself.  I made a brief attempt to track it down, but couldn't find it. JamesSchmidt 22:43, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't verify this as the site is blocked by my firewall. Deb (talk) 10:33, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

text: I think it must be this, on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qnw8SMRAiA William Avery (talk) 10:42, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link:  WGBH Max Egremont Lecture 

message: The text under the section "Affairs" currently reads as follows: "Sassoon, having matured greatly as a result of his military service, continued to seek emotional fulfilment, initially in a succession of love affairs with men, including:"  Quite aside from the misspelling of "fulfillment", this is rather awkward editorializing, isn't it?  What does his having love affairs have to do with maturing or military service, and doesn't it go without saying that we all seek emotional fulfillment in love affairs?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shrinkydink07 (talk • contribs) 07:58, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it likely that the original editor who used this language was trying to articulate that as Sassoon grew older/matured he simply became more comfortable in his own skin. I am guessing, and of course this is normal - as we all age - we accept who we are - I am not sure the military connection was really ever relevant. I took an NPOV view and changed this. It is supported by numerous citations and one cannot deny the robust data on his homosexually - Stephen Tenant especially. I agree that this does not define the man - but it needs some discussion surely -   BeingObjective (talk) 22:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  awkward section "Affairs" 

message: Sassoon is the subject of the Netflix film “Benediction”. His friend, probable lover and fellow poet Wilfred Owen is also a prominent figure in the film. 47.208.2.104 (talk) 23:52, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film Depiction 

message: Draft Framework
**Siegfried Sassoon: A War Poet and Advocate for Peace**
![Siegfried Sassoon](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Siegfried_Sassoon_photo_p1180476.jpg/220px-Siegfried_Sassoon_photo_p1180476.jpg)
[Image source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Siegfried_Sassoon_photo_p1180476.jpg)
**Siegfried Sassoon** (1886-1967) was a renowned British poet, writer, and soldier, best known for his evocative poetry that captured the horrors and disillusionment of World War I. He played a significant role in the literary movement known as the "War Poets," using his words to expose the realities of war and advocate for peace. Sassoon's works have had a lasting impact on the literary and cultural landscape, and he remains an influential figure in English poetry.
## Early Life and Family Background
Siegfried Loraine Sassoon was born on September 8, 1886, in Matfield, Kent, England. He was the second of three sons born to Alfred Ezra Sassoon and Theresa Thornycroft Sassoon. Alfred, a Jewish businessman from Baghdad, had settled in England, where he married Theresa, a member of the prominent Thornycroft sculpting family. The Sassoon family was well-connected socially and artistically, fostering an environment that nurtured Siegfried's early creative inclinations.
## Education and Early Writings
Sassoon received his education at the New Beacon School in Sevenoaks and Marlborough College, where he excelled in academics and developed a passion for literature and poetry. His talent for writing was recognized and encouraged by his teachers, and his early poems began to display a strong lyrical quality.
In 1905, Sassoon enrolled at Clare College, Cambridge, where he continued to refine his writing skills and established connections with other aspiring poets and intellectuals. During this time, he published his first collection of poems, titled "The Daffodil Murderer" (1913). Although it received little attention, it provided a glimpse into Sassoon's emerging poetic voice and themes.
## World War I and Military Service
The outbreak of World War I in 1914 had a profound impact on Sassoon's life and writing. Initially filled with a sense of patriotism, he eagerly enlisted in the British Army in 1915. Sassoon was assigned to the Royal Welch Fusiliers and served on the Western Front, where he witnessed the brutal realities of war firsthand.
As Sassoon experienced the horrors of trench warfare and the loss of countless comrades, his idealism was shattered, leading to a deep disillusionment with the war. This profound shift in perspective is reflected in his poetry, which became increasingly critical of the war's purpose and the authorities responsible for perpetuating it.
## War Poetry and Public Dissent
Siegfried Sassoon's poetry during the war period is characterized by its visceral imagery and poignant critique of the war effort. His collections "The Old Huntsman" (1917) and "Counter-Attack and Other Poems" (1918) brought him significant recognition and established him as a leading voice among the War Poets.
In 1917, Sassoon made a bold and controversial move by publishing an open letter, known as the "Soldier's Declaration," in which he denounced the continuance of the war. He voiced his opposition to the government's handling of the conflict and its failure to address the soldiers' suffering adequately. The letter attracted widespread attention and sparked intense debates about the role of dissent in wartime.
## Homosexuality and Personal Relationships
Sassoon's personal life was marked by complex and often clandestine relationships.
Although homosexuality was still heavily stigmatized during his lifetime, evidence suggests that Sassoon engaged in intimate relationships with other men. One of his significant relationships was with the poet and novelist Wilfred Owen, whom he met while convalescing from injuries sustained during the war. Their friendship and shared experiences of war deeply influenced Sassoon's writing.
Another significant figure in Sassoon's life was Stephen Tennant, a young aristocrat and socialite. Tennant's flamboyant and nonconformist lifestyle intrigued Sassoon, and the two became close friends. Their relationship, while not explicitly romantic, had a profound impact on Sassoon's personal and artistic development.
## Marriage and Later Years
In 1933, Siegfried Sassoon married Hester Gatty, daughter of a prominent doctor. The couple had one child, a son named George, but the marriage ultimately ended in divorce in 1945. Despite the dissolution of his marriage, Sassoon maintained a close relationship with his son throughout his life.
After the war, Sassoon continued to write poetry, novels, and memoirs, though his literary output was less focused on war-related themes. His works during this period include "The Weald of Youth" (1942) and "The Old Century" (1951). While these works did not achieve the same level of critical acclaim as his war poetry, they showcased his versatility as a writer and his ability to capture the essence of the human experience.
## Final Years and Legacy
Siegfried Sassoon spent his later years living in Heytesbury, Wiltshire, where he enjoyed a quiet life away from the public eye. He remained active in literary circles, mentoring young poets and continuing to write until his death.
On September 1, 1967, at the age of 80, Siegfried Sassoon passed away at his home in Heytesbury. His legacy as a war poet and advocate for peace endures, and his works continue to be studied and admired for their artistic and historical significance.
**References:**
1. [Siegfried Sassoon - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegfried_Sassoon)
2. [Siegfried Sassoon - Poetry Foundation](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/siegfried-sassoon)
3. [Siegfried Sassoon - British Library](https://www.bl.uk/people/siegfried-sassoon)
4. [Siegfried Sassoon - Poetry Archive](https://www.poetryarchive.org/poet/siegfried-sassoon) Exnihilox (talk) 02:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: When you take this into consideration, it's worth noting that Exnihilox has been permanently blocked for sockpuppetry so won't be around any time soon, or ever, to follow through. 10mmsocket (talk) 20:59, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested Total Rework to Make it More Logical. 

message: I noted the changes to this specific section - I think this is super interesting, and both Waugh and Sassoon converted to Catholicism later in life - as a total newcomer to Wikipedia - and evaluating the apparent fate of the user who made these changes (I took some effort to understand why they might not be around - but I will leave that topic alone) - my comment is does this discussion even belong here? I noted the prior revision noted the conversation - but does the analysis of motivation even fit with Wikipedia? I hope this comment is perceived constructively. It is in the 'talk section' - but again, I note the odd remark from @user 10mmsocket. Acting in Good Faith (talk) 20:21, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't delved into the detail, but if the content you talk about was added by sockpuppeteer Exnihilox then I personally wouldn't hesitate to remove it from the article. His tendency towards WP:SYNTH of a given source means much of his contribution (in my opinion) is largely worthless. 10mmsocket (talk) 20:32, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conversion to Catholicism? 

message: Whoever inserted the parenthesis claiming that Sassoon may have been deliberately shot by one of his own men appears not to have read the Wales Online article cited in the footnote. Admittedly the article is badly written and highly misleading, but if you read it through to the end you see that it is describing the plot of a then-recently published (and obviously bad) novel, whose amateur author admits that he has discarded historical fact in order to produce what he thinks is an interesting story. "I aim to tell an entertaining story true to its times, rather than produce a so-called factual version based on personal recollections which are sometimes ambiguous and conflicting, with areas where there are no records at all. At times I have distorted historical accuracy in the interests of a coherent story." In particular, John Hollands' supposed novel imagines that Sassoon was shot in 1918 by a Welch Fusilier whose 'autistic' brother had been Sassoon's batman/runner, who was blamed for Sassoon's 'Soldier's Declaration' being pinned up on a notice board at company headquarters in August 1917 and who was found in possession of manuscript copies of Sassoon's poems when his quarters were searched, foolishly claiming the poems were his own work and being shot by firing squad as a result, this apparently resulting in his brother's attempted revenge killing of Sassoon a year later. 
All this is obviously just plain silly. Sassoon, after being shot in the shoulder, was in England on convalescent leave in summer 1917 when he sent his 'Soldier's Declaration' to his regimental colonel, to a leftist newspaper editor and to a pacifist MP. It would never have appeared on a 'company notice board' in the front line in France, where company notice boards did not exist in any case. Nobody in the front line even knew about it. Besides, Sassoon was correctly diagnosed as not being in his right mind when he made the 'Declaration', as he acknowledges (a bit too subtly and ironically for some, it appears) in Memoirs of an Infantry Officer. The parenthesis ought to be deleted. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:27, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Friendly Fire