Talk:A Song of Ice and Fire/Archive 1

message: There's a lot of discussion and speculation on this talk page about the publication of AFFC which has obviously already come to pass and therefore is now irrelevant. Can I suggest we clean up or archive this information? Cheers--Werthead 21:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean-Up?

message: A excerpt from George R R Martin's site on June 2004:
I have been getting even more email asking if the latest publication date announced by one bookstore or another is correct. It isn't. I don't even care what date it is. I am still writing the book. Until it is done and delivered, all these announced pubdates are arrived at by throwing darts at a calendar. - George R. R. Martin
None of the messages on GRRM's site since then have announced any further publication date information.  Hence I would consider this pubdate (i.e., date unknown) the most authoritative.  Adding in other points of view here seems a little silly...  Connelly 11:59, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Publication Date of A Feast for Crows 

message: The houses section should probably be moved to another page.  We could (I might) also create a template called Template:ASOIAFHouses similar to Template:ASOIAFPlaces for the great houses (and any other major houses), and make pages for each, where each page lists the pledged houses as well.   —siroχo 09:20, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)
*At random, I noticed that there is no link in the nav-box to the List of Houses.  Books, minor characters, and places, but no major-characters option?  Seems a tad silly to me.  Marblespire 07:49, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Houses 

message: Why are we trusting a quote that was merely "reportedly" said at a book expo over the Amazon and distributor dates? Snowspinner 15:49, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
:Because some of us know these people personally. However, I understand the verifiability issue. , report #80, is a statement from GRRM's wife/significant other.  Arbor 16:28, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Release

message: I came across a character article Beric Dondarrion, and as it seemed pretty small, propsed that it be merged with this article.  I didn't do it myself as the current structure of this article did not contain a character section, so I thouhgt I'd open it up for discussion first.  Thoughts, anyone?
: He should go to Characters from A Song of Ice and Fire. (If he were of a greater House, say House Targaryen, he would belong there. But House Dondarrion doesn't deserve its own page. so he goes to the catch-all Characters from A Song of Ice and Fire. Thanks for trying to clean this up, by the way. Arbor 08:43, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now made the merge. (I also added a link to that character page to the Books template; maybe it should be changed to the comprensive one(List of...), though. Thanks for the response! JesseW 16:35, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I think you're right—it should. Also, the Characters from... ought to make it clear that many (most?) of the really interesting characters aren't on that page at all, but distributed over various House Blah pages or even their own page. I'd be grateful if you look at that. Arbor 17:38, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging in character articles? 

message: I am sure GRRM has made a general comment about 3rd person omniscient, something along the lines of it being the best way of writing modern novels. That would fit well under the Style and themes headline. Anybody knows what I am rambling about? Arbor 19:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Trying to find it on westeros.org, not much luck so far. In the meantime: this may be useful to you: "When asked about his favorite/least favorite characters were, he quickly said Tyrion was his favorite character to write and that Bran's chapters were the most difficult and usually the ones left for last in the books released so far. But there aren't any characters that he dislikes per say, as he maintained that he had to be able to 'get into their heads' and 'understand them' in order to be able to tell the story as he wanted. He said the multiple PoV perspective was essential for understanding SOIAF, as he believed it offered a way for not just him, but for the readers to gain multiple perspective on the same events." Paul Willocx 19:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Martin quote about third person ominiscient? 

message: I included the three adaptations to other media (CCG, PRG, board game) here, summary style. These belong to the series-spanning article (this one) instead of Game of Thrones, I believe. (We can discuss this.) I also suggest that two of the articles (RPG, board game) be changed into a redirect to the current page. Currently they contain no other information than what I copied to this page, and that's simply too little for an article. Whenever somebody wants to expand the stubs into full articles, we can revivify the articles. The CCG, on the other hand, has a fully fledged out main article. Also, is Adapatations the best title for this? How about In other media? Arbor 20:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adaptations 

message: I note that there have been some minor edits sprinkled throughout a lot of the ASoIaF pages, mostly by user 128.210.12.95 . Some are good, but some are speculative and some are factually incorrect (Daenerys may become a canny politican by the end of the series, but she isn't one yet and she has no idea about war: that's why she has military advisors). Please remember to list your reasons for edits on the related talk pages. Cheers.--Werthead 22:34, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor Edits

message: I reverted the recent edits by an anon user that seemed to be motivated by Brendan Moody's revert of his POV edits to Terry Goodkind.  I did, however, think he had a couple of good points and went ahead and reimplemented two of his changes.  The part about genre-defying depiction of feudal society may be true to a degree, but does overhype that aspect of the series in a POV manner.  I also removed the portion about recomendations by other authors as part of an "impressive" prerelease campaign.  There is nothing unusual about getting famous authors to comment on a new fantasy series, and there does not seem to be any reason to single this out for Martin.  If someone disagrees with these removals, they can certainly put that information back in. Indrian 03:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent edits by anon

message: In the pronounciation guide, what does the CBC stand for? Some of the creditings are to GRRM-CBC for example, and while the other acronyms are listed, I couldn't find CBC.Coldwind 19:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. It's a long interview that GRRM did when he toured Canada to promote FfC. Arbor 20:09, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronounciation guide Question

message: Wouldn't a table like this be somewhat informative? It's verifiable and NPOV, and furthermore a good way to explain the POV structure, and some of the structural changes in it (like the increasing number of "other" POVs and the split between volumes 4 and 5).
Number of chapters per point of view character
        	Game	Clash	Storm	Feast
Bran    	7   	7    	4    	–
Catelyn 	11  	7    	7    	–
Daenerys	10  	5    	6    	–
Eddard  	15  	–    	–    	–
Jon     	9   	8    	12   	–
Arya    	5   	10   	8    	3
Tyrion  	9   	14   	11   	–
Sansa   	6   	8    	6    	3
Davos   	–   	3    	6    	–
Theon   	–   	6    	–    	–
Jaime   	–   	–    	9    	7
Samwell 	–   	–    	4    	5
Cersei  	–   	–    	–    	10
Brienne 	–   	–    	–    	8
Others  	1   	1    	2    	10
:I, for one, like the concept. It's spoilerish but I don't think that should really be a big concern in an encyclopedia. Maybe a page count could be introduced as well? NeoFreak 14:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't the page count depend on the edition, whether it's paperback or hardcover and so on and so forth? —Nightstallion (?) 19:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a very good point, I didn't even think of that. Duh. I guess the US hardcover should be used as all the books are in that form, they are the most common esp on an englsih wikipedia. As far as I know the only diffrence would be the cover art from edition to edition so it wouldn't matter if we  used the 1st 2nd or 3rd. NeoFreak 19:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The format used for the Wheel of Time main page, where they have a similar table, is interesting. Personally I don't think it's entirely necessary, but if you want to set such a table up, than sure. It's not a spoiler since we already list the POV characters in each book anyway. As for page count, you could use the mass-market paperback page counts as actually they are the most common format for the books and I believe they are consistent between the UK and US editions. However, we do have the headache of ASoS being split in two in the UK, which would require accounting for on such a table.--Werthead 23:14, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Finished the table. I think this is good information—it makes a point about chapter structure in general, but also about the drastic change of viewpoint characters in Feast. This way we don't have to write hogwash like "Many fans were disappointed by the number of foreign POVs introduced in FfC and missed their favourites". Instead, we can just point this out in the table without making a value judgement or guessing what "many fans" may or may not have felt. As to page counts, I am not sure how much interesting information they add (apart from number-cruft). If anybody wants to add them, go ahead. Arbor 09:14, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion for table: # chapters per POV 

message: The part where it says that the only place that the title is referred to is in Dany's vision of Rhaegar is only half-true. When the Reeds present themselves at Bran's feast, they swear their loyalty to him "by ice and fire". Furthermore, I thought it was pretty clear that ice and fire symbolize the Starks and Lannisters, respectively. Throughout the series, the Starks are described as having ice flowing through their veins, while the Lannister color is crimson, etc. If you guys think that counts as 'original research' then take it out, but the part about the Reeds is worth mentioning.--Alex
*Your first point about the Reeds is valid and may be worth mentioning, but it is in no way clear that Ice and Fire represent Stark and Lannister.  In fact, that is a highly unlikely interpretation.  Far more believeable is that it either symbolizes Daenerys and Jon or the war between the Great Other and R'hllor.  All of this, of course, is speculation, and therefore none of it need be discussed at length in the article. Indrian 17:57, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Ice and Fire"

message: I was reading through the article and noticed that the pictures of books as they are now obscure the title of at least the themes section.  I tried editing them down to 100px and looked at the preview - the covers seem pretty visible to me, and it fixed the formatting of the titles and sections.  Thoughts?  WLU 12:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I must say that I really hate the horizontal layout. It looks wrong and pushes down some of the text on the screen, creating a sort of vacuum of information at the top of the page. None of the computers I use display any problems when the book covers are placed along the right side. I think they should be moved back to the way they were. -Captain Crawdad 05:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The vacuum is 'cause of the index list, which is very long and I don't think can be moved around.  I'm not super attached to the layout, not enough to revert it if someone else feels really strongly, but if it was switched back to along the right, I found the old pictures were very large and messed up the layout.  I'm using Safari on a Mac to view them, perhaps that's why - when I view it on the old size and layout, it cuts off one of the headings and the edits hyperlinks above each section are all screwed up.  Again, perhaps it's just 'cause of my program.  I tried a preview of the old way, but with the images at 100px, I found it to be reasonably satisfactory - you can still see them, the text isn't overwhelming the picture and it doesn't seem to mess with the headings.  Anyone know a way to put it in some sort of grid next to the contents box?  That might solve my problems, but then again my problems might be unique to the computer and programs I'm using.  I'm not a regular contributor here, so I bow before the preferences of those who are.  WLU 14:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures of books 

message: Isn't new novel: The Ice Dragon set in the ASolaF world?  It's written by Martin.  It should be included in the list AWP_Lizard
:No, "The Ice Dragon" isn't actually set in the Ice and Fire world, though some of the promotional material inaccurately suggests that it is. Brendan Moody 00:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Ice Dragon?

message: I've corrected a couple of links I missed on the template, added categories, added associated items, and changed the colour scheme (couldn't find a color to match the lavendar-ish background for the categories cells, so went with shades of grey). Pejorative.majeure 20:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Template updates

message: Breaking news, perhaps, but surely this should be mentioned in the article somewhere? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.3.0.12 (talk) 15:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is, in the Spinoffs section. Brendan Moody 18:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

text: The reason I changed the heading is because it is not calling for a theatrical or film adaptation, it called for a TV series only.  WLU 19:13, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: HBO Adaption

message: Added a subsection on the planned weapon replicas to the Spin-offs section. 195.235.227.10 17:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Weapon Replicas

message: Those references to Machiavelli are thin in my opinion, perhaps they should be removeed. But i'll leave the decision to someone else70.111.23.108 19:30, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not that it's wrong, you are no doubt right. The problem is, to put it simply, in order for it to not be original research somebody else has to say it first, and in a reliable source outside of wikipedia. I know it seems obvious but we are not allowed to put forth our own observations as fact at wikipedia. NeoFreak 20:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: No problem. Have you thought about joining the Song of Ice and Fire wikiproject? We could use some new editors that are interested in working in this subject. NeoFreak 23:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: I have removed the phrase "at least" from the top of the article.  There is no evidence anywhere (at least officially) that the series will expand beyond this, and GRRM isn't suggesting it.  Therefore I consider it misleading. 74.225.243.175 02:54, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "At least" seven novels?

message: I thought it was a different story that inspired Martin to write A Song of Ice and Fire.  Can anyone confirm the story? [REL] 2007 August 10
No, it was Memory, Sorrow and Thorn that made GRRM think that an epic fantasy series could be written to appeal to a more mature audience than contemporary authors (I assume he was thinking of the likes of Terry Brooks and David Eddings). I gather his impression was that the last proper, 'adult' epic fantasy series was Thomas Covenant a deacade earlier. It's in the So Spake Martin part of Westeros.org somewhere. I'll see if I can look it up when I have more time.--Werthead 21:03, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A Song of Ice and Fire Inspiration

message: This really is just a shoddy section. It makes it seem like A Feast For Crows was a terrible book, that was reviewed awfully. While some readers dislike the character of Brienne, it seems unneccesary to include in a criticism, especially because we don't know if her chapters will have any deeper meaning later in the series. I suggest scrapping the section and writing the actual critical response to the novels from actual critics, not just a critical response to the novels.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.48.201 (talk) 04:28, August 26, 2007 (UTC) 
AFFC is actually the most consistently well-reviewed book in the series. Even A Storm of Swords got some bad reviews on release, but all the major print reviews of AFFC I read (SFX, Dreamwatch, Starburst etc) were unanimous in their praise of it, and it was nominated for the Hugo. I am also removing the 'self-published' template as the only source mentioned in that section is SFX Magazine, which is published by Future Publishing (one of the UK's largest publishers) and is Europe's biggest-selling science fiction magazine. Not sure what that template was doing there.--Werthead 21:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical Response 

message: This section piqued my interest, it mentions that mods were made, but only lists the games they're based on, not the mods themselves.  Including these would be nice, because...well, I'm interested. Leedeth 13:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Computer games section

message: :Image:2005 SoS cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 21:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe this was fixed by re-uploading the image with a smaller one (<300x300) that satisfies the Fair Use guidelins.  WLU (talk) 21:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently not, as all the cover images are now gone. I haven't a clue on how to work with cover images but I think this needs to be fixed.--Werthead (talk) 18:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I fucking hate image use.  I think we may be able to use the same cover as A Game of Thrones - it's used twice already and has a fair use rationale that seems to support its use on List of fantasy novels.  I'm surprised I wasn't notified when SOS was deleted.  One cover isn't as good as all 4, but it's better than none.  I'll ask the guy who deleted the old images.  WLU (talk) 18:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

text: The thing that BetacommandBot looks for is a fair use rationale for every article that the image is used in.  :Image:2005 SoS cover.jpg only had a template, which needed to be supplemented by a rationale.  — Laura Scudder ☎ 20:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:2005 SoS cover.jpg

message: Is there any justification for Westeros being described as a "South American sized continent"? Reading the books, it seemed more like it was an island the size of Britain. Indeed it seems like a fantasy world version of feudal Britain, down to the Viking-like groups on small islands off the coast (Orkneys, Hebrides), the protective wall to the north (like Hadrian's Wall) and the wild painted people beyond that wall (a.k.a the Picts/Scots).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.99.63.218 (talk) 17:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's modeled on Britain in some ways, including those you mention, but Britain itself would be far too small for the scale of the series' action.  The South America comparison comes from the author himself; I've added a reference. Brendan Moody (talk) 18:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition, the Wall by itself is 300 miles long, half the length of the island of Britain. You can use the Wall as a scale bar (GRRM confirmed this is valid on this week's Barnes & Noble forum Q&A). This gives a distance from the Wall to the south coast of Dorne of approximately 3,000 miles (South America is about 4,000 miles from the Panama Canal to the southern tip of Chile), with an unknown amount of land north of the Wall.--Werthead (talk) 03:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot Summary 

message: Anyone think this section needs to be updated? According to the page the Corebook was supposed to be out awhile ago, but I haven't seen anything on it and as far as I know, it's not out yet. Can somebody verify?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.136.3.10 (talk) 19:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New RPG

message: This shows how behind the times I am with the SSM. GRRM called the eastern continent 'Essos' in an interview in Spain last year.--Werthead (talk) 00:36, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: A name for the eastern continent

message: Only as I was mostly done with the edits to include Blood of Dragons MUSH was I reminded of the policies regarding conflict of interest in linking. So I'm leave it up to the fellow editors to decide whether Blood of Dragons MUSH is suitably notable (as the only authorized on-line, text-based RPG) to be mentioned, and whether it merits a separate link in External links (as the Citadel and the forum have received). Elio Garcia (talk) 13:47, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And I was just about to remind you of that I'm thinking that it is OK, but I'd welcome some kind of direct quote or more reliable reference supporting the "specifically authorized by the author to date". A pity that  doesn't mention it. Is there something in SSM that you know of? Not quite reliable, but it would be better.The external links section is pretty long already, in my opinion, so it might not survive there for very long.Cheers, Amalthea 14:57, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nothing in the SSM, as it's not quite the right place for something like that. We can place GRRM's authorization mail and a follow up regarding the fact that we were the only authorized game as of the time of his mail (I've never heard him or anyone saying that he's authorized another game since) in the Blood of Dragons FAQ. Will edit the reference link to that page as soon as that's done. Thanks for the advice, Amalthea! 81.224.96.70 (talk) 18:57, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  A direct quote would be great, and should satisfy everyone.Thanks, Elio, and Cheers, Amalthea 02:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Edited the ref. I left in the note regarding verification, in case anyone finds referencing a page on our own site not quite verifiable enough. That said, there is this on-line chat in which GRRM mentions in passing that someone should have asked permission as we did before we started our game. ("I wish they had asked permission, at least, the way Elio and Linda did before beginning their Seven Kingdoms MUSH.") That's hosted on  third-party site, and might be considered more reliable? Elio Garcia (talk) 22:43, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think it's fine, I fully trust that you're not misrepresenting his quote. If the messages from GRRM were dated in the FAQ it would be even better, but it should be OK as it is. Thanks & Cheers, Amalthea 22:08, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Blood of Dragons MUSH

message: Hi everybody,
The power metal band Blind Guardian have written a couple of songs about the novels. I think that it would be nice to include them in the article. I had written a new section about it, but it was deleted claiming it was not "a part of the novels". What do you think? Should we at least add a sentence about this? I think it is definitely worth it.
You can see more details about the songs here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Edge_of_Time#Song_Information The songs are "War of the Thrones" and "A Voice in the Dark".
Cheers,
Trelos physikos (talk) 17:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This type of thing is usually considered trivia. However, if you can find a reliable, verifiable source (like a review) which discusses this, it may establish enough notability for the information to be included in the article in some way. Thanks.— TAnthonyTalk 22:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, I will work on it asap. However, the question remains: should it be in a new section, eg Trivia as you suggested, or a subsection, under Adaptation or Franchise for example? Thanks  Trelos physikos (talk) 07:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely do not create a new section called Trivia, we specifically need to avoid presenting anything as such (see WP:TRIVIA. Sourced info about this would probably fit nicely into the Franchise section even though it's not a licensed use of ASOIAF material.— TAnthonyTalk 15:26, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added a couple of sentences about this and a reference. If there is some problem, please discuss it here and do not delete anything like some guy did with my previous addition. Thanks.Trelos physikos (talk) 19:01, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: We discussed it on my talk page and on this talk page. See WP:CYCLE. The sentences could definitely use a reliable source. Beach drifter (talk) 16:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, what do you think about these two: gamertagged.net or blackgate.com Trelos physikos (talk) 14:33, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Both appear to be something slightly more professional than blogs but not much else. In the first link I can find no mention of Martin but in the second it at least clearly says that their album is about ASOIAF. A press release from the band or something of that nature would be good. The westeros.org ref isn't any good because it just makes a statement with no backing, not unlike the blackgate site. Beach drifter (talk) 17:33, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  In the first link there is a clear mention of the Game of Thrones in the paragraph (surprise!) about the "Voice in the Dark" song. Anyway, if you want more convincing you can have a look at the booklet of the album  regarding the two songs War of Thrones and A Voice in the Dark or at this review from metal-sound.net (it clearly mentions that the two songs are written for ASOIAF). Also, I will send an email directly to Blind Guardian later today and kindly ask them to put some comment on their page (don't expect a quick reply as they are on tour). If these won't convince you (especially the review from "metal-sound.net", I don't know what will :( Trelos physikos (talk) 08:39, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't need convincing, it's got nothing to do with that, I just want good sources for the article that meet wp:source. Beach drifter (talk) 20:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  The band hasn't replied yet but I managed to dig up (with google) a relevant post from the official blind-guardian site that clearly and beyond doubt proves my point. The post was about previewing some of the songs (including both of the ones relevant to this topic). You can't get any better source than this! Trelos physikos (talk) 14:50, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blind Guardian songs about the novels 

message: Is anyone else good with tables?  The translation table looks like hell.  I could try to fix it but it would take me hours and I'd probably ruin it in the process. Kermit814 (talk) 19:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tables 

message: I see this labelled unambiguously "fantasy". I haven't read the books, just been watching the HBO series, but is it possible to classify this as SF? Could this world be some far future human colony, like Darkover or Pern that lost its technology?  Human colonists could have brought any number of earth animals and plants as well.  Are there any hints of this in the books (e.g., things that could be relics of high technology) or has GRRM ever been asked this? Barsoomian (talk) 05:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There hasn't been any hint of that in the books or from GRRM.  There has been what appears to be magic though (the Wall, the Others, Mellisande, the Warlocks of Quarth).  Magic appears to be on the rise since (or possibly because of) the birth of the dragons.  It definitely seems to be fantasy, though a relatively low magic context compared to many other fantasy series.Caidh (talk) 13:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There's magic in Pern and Darkover (though you could handwave them as psychic powers). So that alone isn't definitive. Or a better example , Iain M Banks' Inversions (novel), which reads like a medieval fantasy if you don't realise the magic is actually "Culture" technology. Maybe at the end of Book 7 we find the crashed spaceship. So that remains speculation. Barsoomian (talk) 17:27, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Science_fantasy "If it is one of space travel and proton-pistols, it gets classified as "science fiction", and the appropriate terms (cloaking device, matter-transmitter) are used; if it is one of castles, sailing ships and swords, it gets classified as "fantasy", and we instead speak of magic rings and travel by enchantment. In short, science fiction uses technology to explain impossible phenomena while fantasy employs magic."  There's always room for debate, but I would say that since GRRM never tries in any way, shape or form to explain his impossible phenomena that it should be categorized as fantasy. Kermit814 (talk) 19:58, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fantasy? 

message: this thing reads a little like a puff piece
I don't have a credible source, but I can't help but think many people feel as I do: that after the first book or so, the series is outrageously padded with all sorts of irrelevant stuff; there are 100s of pages that could be cut with no deficit what so ever
also, while the introduction of some sex and bodily functions is a welcome relief from the wierd asexuality of tolkein, and say wheel of time, I find that martin often seems to go overboard, like a kid trying to shock his parents with naughty words...enough already with descriptions of bowel movements !!!
also, the authors habit of "killing" characters off and then returning them gets tiresome after a while; it was fun the first one or two times, but afte that it is just lazy plotting and story telling.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.135.33 (talk) 01:23, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: criticisms

message: The lines "Lord Eddard Stark, King Robert's Hand, finds out Robert's children are illegitimate, and that the throne should therefore fall to the second of the three Baratheon brothers" and "Tommen Baratheon, allegedly Robert's son, but illegitimate too" are misleading according to my reading.  If Joffrey and Thommen are the children of Cersei and Jaime then they are not illegitimate children of Robert, but rather not his children at all.  He has illegitimate children - Gendry, etc - but none of them are claimants to the throne (at least to the end of A Clash of Kings, as far as I read).  The relevant fact regarding Joffrey and Thommen is that Robert was not (by this claim) their father.  They could be considered Cersei's illegitimate children.  --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 03:22, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joffrey and Thommen "illegitimate"? 

message: I have started expanding this article (currently in userspace), see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire#Working_on_A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire. – sgeureka t•c 20:18, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding the Reception section, which appears to solely concentrate on positive comments; would it be worth noting the contrast between critical and reader response to particularly the fourth and fifth books at sites such as Amazon, where reviews have been less glowing regarding areas such as book length and lack of character/plot development? 212.225.127.33 (talk) 23:31, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

text: I agree that a balanced view with critical response is useful.  I do think we need reviews from reliable sources though as opposed to Amazon user reviews.Caidh (talk) 00:34, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The reception section is nowhere finished (I just dumped the current content there when restructuring the article). There is a collection of esteemed info/sources at e.g. User:Sgeureka/ASOIAF#Critical_response, which I intend to work into the article in a balanced fashion (pro/con) in the foreseeable future. Like Caidh has hinted at, Amazon reviews should NOT be used, as some of the customer reviews/stars were provided by extreme fanboys or crazy hater-wackos, and wikipedia shouldn't rely on that. Anyone is free to add reception information from reliable sources (be it pro or con) when he believes it to improve the article. – sgeureka t•c 09:36, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely wasn't suggesting adding Amazon user reviews, merely pointing out the consensus or trend that seemed to be emerging from readers over the course of the series; I'm not sure where to look for third-party sources that comment on this, though. 212.225.121.137 (talk) 17:33, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  FYI: Working on this article 

message: See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire#Meta-article_restructuring. – sgeureka t•c 11:04, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split section proposals 

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thread_title: File:The World of 'A Song of Ice and Fire'.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Having just finished the second book, I'll concede that magical elements seem to increasingly creep into the series as it advances - presumably because of the return of dragons? - but in the first book there's very little explicitly supernatural content, even the references to Aegon the Conqueror's dragons could be interpreted as metaphor and/or myth if you tried, so I'd argue that the first book might be better categorised as low fantasy.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.221.88.125 (talk) 23:57, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: High fantasy?

message: Edited the word "harassed" out as neither of the two sites mentioned ever harassed George R. R. Martin. Unless a clear citation of harassment can be given this should remain so. Edited out the word "renegade" as it has subjective implications.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.81.193 (talk) 22:51, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the first provided source (The Globe and Mail) for that sentence does say "After being stamped out there, angry fans calling themselves GRRuMblers formed new online groups to harass him, including such blogs as Finish the Book, George, brimming with vituperation." And the second provided source (The New Yorker) says "Yet Verhoeve, operating under the nom de guerre of Slynt, now runs a Web forum dedicated to denigrating Martin and his supporters. The site is called Is Winter Coming?" and later "An entire community of apostates—a shadow fandom—is now devoted to taunting Martin, his associates, ..." Plus, it actually uses the word "renegade", as in "In Verhoeve’s telling, disaffected fans—who sometimes call themselves GRRuMblers—formed a renegade movement in 2009, ..."But I guess the current more neutral phrasing ("creating sites such as Finish the Book, George and Is Winter Coming?") will also do. – sgeureka t•c 05:47, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I would argue both sites fall under WP:BLP and should be handled carefully: "A harmful statement about a small group or organization comes closer to being a BLP problem than a similar statement about a larger group; and when the group is very small, it may be impossible to draw a distinction between the group and the individuals that make up the group. When in doubt, make sure you are using high-quality sources." Denaar (talk) 00:49, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fandom 

message: The pronunciation guide, although an excellent idea, is not helpful at all to people who can't read the phonetic language... which is almost everyone.  I would do this myself, but I don't know the exact pronunciations.  So will someone who can read this or who already knows the sounds write them there?  For example - Cersei: Sir - sigh (if indeed that is how that name is pronounced).  Thank you!
*Um this may sound dumb but ʒ what is this? I wanted to learn how to prounouce and that is one of the "letters" I saw, is it my brouser?
**Guys, it's just IPA.  It's the standard way of representing pronunciations here.  It's the same way pronuncations are indicated all over the wiki.  If you don't want to bother learning it - as I certainly don't - you can always just keep an IPA reference open as you read the pronuncations.  Sniffnoy 18:27, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the entire pronounciation guide's presence is a bit dubious since GRRM himself has said there is no set pronounciation for the books. The pronounciations he uses when reading are different from what his audiobook readers use, for example. There are a couple of pronounciations he insists on = 'Jaime' is pronounced like 'Jamie', not 'JAY-MA' - but overall I'd say the pronounciation section can be culled, at least until such time as GRRM releases an 'official' guide.--Werthead (talk) 03:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed with Werthead. Wikipedia should not provide pronunciation guides unless they are provided by the author; but to suggest that IPA should be replaced with plain alphabet transliterations (as in the original comment) is not a good idea. Wikipedia is accessible worldwide. To suggest that "Cersei" should be written "Sir - sigh" only serves people who pronounce Cersei in a General American English accent. Someone from rural Louisiana or Texas would not pronounce "sigh" the same way as someone from New York or Toronto. Ghanaians do not pronounce "Sir" the same way as RP speaking Londoners or Singaporeans. Transliterations are generally a bad idea in standard international works of reference. I suggest consulting google to find a free, complete unicode font. If you think your browser is at fault, update it or download firefox or chrome. Unicode is not problematic on the modern internet. --Rawlangs (talk) 18:22, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation guide

message: I have been searching references to this sentence "Martin gradually extended the originally planned trilogy into four, six and eventually seven volumes.", but I´m not able to find them. Anyone lucky? --Irbian (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ref 17 , see also section "First three novels (1991–2000)", third paragraph. – sgeureka t•c 06:09, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Perfect! Thanks :) --Irbian (talk) 14:25, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I know this article is currently undergoing GA review, and so I didn't want to garishly change something so major in the lede, but are we sure this fits the description of "high fantasy"? I personally think that a large part of the series better fits the low fantasy label, and there are a lot of reviewers who seem to think that way too. Perhaps the series doesn't fit neatly into either category; maybe it would be best to simply describe it as "fantasy" in the lede and refrain from specifying either way? Basalisk inspect damage⁄berate 01:08, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Although I wrote the majority of the article, I am fairly inexperienced with the many fantasy sub-genres. The "Genre" section names the fantasy genre definitions for which I could find sources, and that's what's reflected in the lede. I never touched the info box, so that may be a place where more (sourced?) editing may be called for. – sgeureka t•c 07:31, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The first book is definitely low fantasy. I would say play it safe and just use fantasy. AIRcorn (talk) 13:40, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

text: Okay I looked into this a bit more and my understanding of High and Low fantasy does not mesh with the wikipedia articles. There is some disagreement with wikipedia  and our classification of this series online. A google book search is mixed , but generally seems to agree with our definition. There is probably enough there to add a few alternative views to our articles though. I won't fail this due the description in the infobox, but would still recommend just using fantasy. AIRcorn (talk) 09:19, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Since GRRM classified it as Epic fantasy (redirects to High fantasy), I've only left High fantasy with a ref in the infobox and removed everything else. – sgeureka t•c 11:59, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre categorization 

message: According to amazon, the paperback release date of ADwD is pushed back to March 13, 2013. This influences the appearance date of the sample chapter for TWoW in the Planned_novels_and_future section. Did not find a non amazon-source for that, so I feel unsure of how to fix it here (and it's too late and I should go to bed). Pbro (talk) 04:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Dealt with, used a comment by GRRM. – sgeureka t•c 11:59, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paperback release date pushed back 

message: Disney, Pixar, Jerry Bruckheimer Films, Heyday Films, Team Todd and Roth Films plan to make Theatrical-release Live action/CGI-animated 3D hybrid film series based on this novel series and is distributed by Walt Disney Pictures.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.145.198 (talk) 10:49, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: CDo you have a source to back this up? I could not find one after a quick search. AIRcorn (talk) 11:40, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Films 

message: Just wanted to point out what the title says. I hope someone sees to it to fix the style or at least tag it, as I don't remember the tags to mark for this sort of thing. 94.64.248.225 (talk) 22:12, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: While it's remarkably well-cited and attributed, and I applaud whoever tackled that task, I happen to agree with you about the tone, so I'm marking it as such.  And let me preempt any s by promising I'll be back to look at it. Laura Scudder | talk 22:50, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

text: For me the whole article seems very (for Wikipedia standards) biased towards praising the book. 94.75.114.148 (talk) 14:19, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Themes section reads like a fanboy essay 

message: While there are no reliable numbers of the total sale worldwide, the series has so far sold 24 millions in North America (Link) and 27 millions in the Commonwealth countries (Link). In other words, at least 51 million copies. I added this information to the article, and for some reason, it was removed. Why? 84.210.10.52 (talk) 19:04, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of copies sold

message: Does anybody know if there is the Full Plot of the Song of Ice and Fire on Wikipedia??
And if not, then where can I find it?..  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soshial (talk • contribs) 09:27, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup, if the series article had the full plot on it, it would likely exceed the recommended size allowance for a Wikipedia article.--Werthead (talk) 21:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot 

message: This whole article is written like an advertisement. Blanket (and wrong) statements are made about how Martin's work is innovative. Certainly SIF has interesting elements, but not by any means novel, either in isolation or combined. Yes, it eschews simplicity, but do does most of the literature that endures. Yes, from media adapatations of some works one may think the whole of their author's output is limited in this or that regard, but that's why judgements should not be passed on such flimsy experience. Someone should go through every single sentence in this article and trim  the belieber stuff. 82.155.49.228 (talk) 16:06, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly I think the article is absolutely packed with fancruft and other information that isn't relevant.  I have never seen anything even remotely resembling the "Inspiration and Writing" section on any other book or series page before (or, at least no section nearly that long), and the "Themes" section links to Themes in A Song of Ice and Fire so there is no need for it to be six paragraphs long.  Not to mention the fact that either the Critical Response section is heavily biased or there are no negative reviews of this series at all, aside from a small amount of disappointment with A Feast For Crows.  The last paragraph mentions "the most critical voices" but quotes two reviews that ultimately praised the series.  This whole article reads like a George R. R. Martin fan page of some kind rather than a Wikipedia article. -Rycr (talk) 06:48, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  issues 

message: Is there any evidence for this?  Certainly there are a lot.  And a lot more than most books.  Even if there are a thousand named individual people in the books it would seem to be hyperbole to call them 'characters'.  In most books on writing, for example, a character is considered to be a person with more than a name: they have history, motives, relationships, fears and desires.  If I'm wrong, then perhaps 'set' (in the quote above) should be changed to 'cast'?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.186.67 (talk) 13:11, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: "a set of over a thousand named characters." ?

message: I realize GRRM is more involved with the franchise process than most fantasy authors, but the section is loaded with details that crosses into the territory of fancruft.  I have two suggestions: 1) we clean it up, summarize it briefly, and then merge it within the adaptation section (which also needs to be condensed), or 2) we move the whole Franchise section into a new page titled something along the lines of 'Franchise of A Song of Ice and Fire' and then create a 'See also' section where we provide a wikilink to it.  Thoughts or any other suggestions? —MirlenTalk 14:05, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The articles on this subject (or these subjects) seem to have a lot of issues around keeping clearly defined lines between content about the books  vs (in particular) the tv series (especially excessive mentions of details about the tv series). I've been making various edits to try to address this but it's a big job. I wonder if renaming some of the articles to make it clearer that it applies to the books or to the tv series or whatever may help.--TyrS 02:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Franchise

message: There's an RS-related RfC on the article about the season-four episode Oathkeeper. Participation and fresh voices would be welcome. The matter concerns a single-line reference to the chapters upon which the episode was based. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:21, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC on Oathkeeper article 

message: According to the manual of style, series of books are not supposed to be in italics. The exact entry under the section for items that should not receive italics (Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles#Neither) is this:
* Media franchises (including a trilogy or other series of novels or films) or fictional universes, except in a case that contains or consists of the name of an italicized individual work
Since none of the novels has the title "A Song of Ice and Fire", it would seem that the series shouldn't be italicized. Is there something I'm overlooking? -- Fyrael (talk) 20:01, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. If you look at the talk page for that section of the manual of style, you'll see that there's been some discussion over the years about cases like this, and the manual itself has been changed back and forth a couple times. Despite the current wording, I'm not sure that there's actually a consensus not to italicize titles of book series, at least in cases like this one, where the series has a definite overall title rather than an informal label (like "the Harry Potter books" or "the Hardy Boys series"). It's probably worth discussing at the MOS talk page before changing this or any of the many other book series articles that use italics. Brendan Moody (talk) 22:22, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I very much considered starting a discussion there, but previous attempts seem to have gotten no traction. The talk page there is not very active. Perhaps I'll give it a shot anyway. -- Fyrael (talk) 00:09, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italics 

message: There is an RfC at Game of Thrones (season 5) regarding whether the site WatchersOnTheWall.com meets the criteria for an expert self-published source (and is therefore suitable for use on Wikipedia).   Participation is welcome. Piandme (talk) 01:14, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC: Is WatchersOnTheWall.com an expert SPS? 

message: RfC: Should the article state which chapters appear in the episode?
This RfC is specifically about one episode, "Oathkeeper," but it is likely to affect all Game of Thrones episode articles.  Specifically, should the episodes contain a line such as, "This episode was based on [specific chapters] of [specific book(s)]"?  Right now, some episode articles have lines like this and some don't, always in the Writing section.  Here's an example:   So far, the first few respondents have outlined the reasons for and against inclusion pretty well, but we need more voices.  Participation is welcome and appreciated.  Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:55, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Game of Thrones and chapter-to-episode statements 

message: With the upcoming release of "The World of Ice and Fire" by George and company, would it be a good idea for someone to create a wikipedia page for it as it currently just links to Works based on A Song of Ice and Fire, which is just a sentence. I think it would be a good page to create now before the book is released, before adding content from the book when it is published, but there is plenty of information to create a page now. Piandme (talk) 20:03, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The World of Ice and Fire 

message: Should be classified as fantasy. It is not at all epic fantasy. This is misleading potential fans.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.171.187.130 (talk) 20:58, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: What is the definition of "epic fantasy"?  Surely a work spanning more than 5,000 pages and a whole world qualifies as "epic"?  Further on topic of genre, what is "High fantasy" vs. "Low fantasy"?  I'm tempted to say I can't define High Fantasy, but I know it when I read it... D A Patriarche, BSc (talk)  (talk) 16:34, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Our categorization has to be based on how external reliable sources categorize the series, not our own interpretation as editors. The designation "Epic fantasy" has a great source (in the infobox). Obviously ASOIAF may have elements of other fantasy subgenera and I'd be surprised if other sources haven't called it high fantasy etc., in which case it would be appropriate (in my opinion) to list other genres as well (with citations).— TAnthonyTalk 14:30, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre 

message: I think we need t source these allusions a lot better. As it stands, the only source1 listed in the section leads to a web portal to an online forum discussing the books, and not specific historical or literary sources noting the comparisons. I don't want to remove it, but it needs referencing, and right quick. I am going to tag the section as unreferenced, and give folk time to find good (read: non-fan forum) sourcing, about a month, and then it will be removed. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added sources for the literary section, but the historical one is more dubious. I don't think GRRM has ever gone into great detail about historical allusions other than saying that he found Rome and the War of the Roses to be somewhat influential. I'll look at pruning and resourcing the sub-section into something more supported.--Werthead (talk) 14:50, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, the Westeros.org website is an officially-recognised source of information on the books (the creators are co-writing the official ASoIaF companion book with GRRM at this moment) and that subsection of the website is a record of GRRM's own comments which are reprinted with his explicit permission. It's not a comparison (see my comments above), but GRRM has stated that the Wars of the Roses are an influence on the series. The historical section needs to be reworded and resourced (I gather the original reference was lost when the website was reorganised a couple of years back), which I will get to as soon as I have the time to go looking for the quotations.--Werthead (talk) 23:52, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Numerous parallels have been seen between the events and characters in A Song of Ice and Fire and events and people involved in the Wars of the Roses. Two of the principal families in A Song of Ice and Fire, the Starks and the Lannisters, are seen as representing the historical House of York and House of Lancaster, respectively." -The similarities seem to stop at the names.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.146.21.142 (talk) 10:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: After a year, it's clear that this section was Original Research. It has been removed. ∅BRIT 17:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Martin has commented on the English and French historical influences on this story (read it here:Martin's historical influences).(User:Lu Xun)  —Preceding undated comment added 06:59, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Druon is already mentioned in the lede of the article, but yes, certainly there should be some text in the body to complement that mention. Brendan Moody (talk) 00:18, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm astounded if no source has pointed out the similarity between Lancaster and York and Lannister and Stark.--Jack Upland (talk) 14:21, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical and literary sources - unsourced 

message: Martin classified A Song of Ice and Fire as "epic fantasy"[1] and specifically named Tad Williams as very influential for the writing of the series.  Tad Williams???? He wrote his books well after ASOIAF. Why would Tad be influential in is writing? 24.154.130.201 (talk) 01:30, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Though Tad Williams continues writing, his first and possibly best known fantasy series, Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn was released between 1988 and 1993, all before the release of A Song of Ice and Fire. Caidh (talk) 04:50, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  And the interview where Martin says this is found in the citation at the end of the sentence that mentions it. -- Fyrael (talk) 17:05, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  When did he say that? 

message: Does anyone looking for the TV show search for "A Song of Ice and Fire"? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:58, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the disambig note necessary? 

message: I considered adding this to the article, but no matter how I tried to word it it sounded kind of morbid. I already essentially added it to an unrelated article a few months back. What do others think? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:10, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Martin's stance on the possibility of others continuing the story after his death? 

message: I am surprised there is no critique of the strange relationship between year and seasons.  I know this is fantasy, but surely GRRM has some idea of what defines a year?  13 moons perhaps?  The late Hal Clement would doubtless have had a scientific explanation, maybe a trinary system with a neutron star etc. I don't insist that fantasy obey the laws of our universe, but it should have its own self-consistent laws.  Surely there is critical comment out there on this?  I'll do some Googling, but unfortunately "year" and "season" are not good search words.  Anyone have a lead on this? D A Patriarche, BSc (talk)  (talk) 00:18, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Martin has been asked more than once about years and seasons; here is one version of the answer he always gives, and the fourth response here is another. I doubt there's been enough critical comment on the topic in significant sources to make it worth adding anything to the article, though. Brendan Moody (talk) 00:39, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, if there's no sig critical comment out there, it doesn't belong in the article.  Tnx for the links. D A Patriarche, BSc (talk)  (talk) 16:28, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Virtually all of the "RS" media coverage of the series in the past few years is inane and superficial commentary based in full or in part on the TV adaptation, and it often confuses the TV show with the books. If there is wide coverage of this specific topic (as opposed to just "the seasons last several years -- isn't that weird") this may need to be taken into account before including such commentary in the article. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:15, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Year and Seasons 

message: In the Plot Synopsis section of given page, it has been written that Aegon I's sisters' names are Visenys and Rhaenys. While Rhaenys is correct, Visenys isn't. The other sister was named "Visenya", not Visenys. Please change "Visenys" to Visenya.
https://www.google.co.in/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Aegon+the+conqueror%27s+sisters
117.195.56.254 (talk) 10:33, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Topher385 (talk) 11:09, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2016 

message: The following is unclear "When Lord Eddard "Ned" Stark, King Robert's "Hand" (chief advisor), discovers that Joffrey and his siblings are the product of incest between Cersei and her twin brother Jaime, Eddard is executed for treason. In response, Robert's brothers Stannis and Renly both lay separate claims to the throne. During this period of instability, two of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros attempt to become independent from the Iron Throne: Ned Stark's eldest son Robb is proclaimed King in the North, while Balon Greyjoy desires to recover the sovereignty of his region, the Iron Islands."
First, Stannis and Renly lay their claims after learning about the incest, not about Eddard being beheaded. Second, Robb Stark takes up arms to save his father, Eddard, and sisters, Arya and Sansa. After Eddard's death he tries to save his sisters and to dethrone the Lannisters, but not to claim the Iron Throne himself. Third, the Iron Islands is not one of the seven kingdoms, only a region of them. Greyjoy does declare an independence though. EnemyTortoise15 (talk) 09:08, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: --Absence of WP:RS and an inability to infer what precise changes you wish to incorporate.Winged Blades Godric 16:19, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2017 Unclear information about the War of the Five Kings 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 26 external links on A Song of Ice and Fire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is no show like it. 109.150.16.233 (talk) 17:24, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That might be so, but as you have not requested any specific changes to this article, there is nothing left to do here. Altamel (talk) 18:59, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2017 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 114 external links on A Song of Ice and Fire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Types of mythological or fantastic beings in contemporary fiction is a page of, well, fantasy works (movie, TV, written, whatever) and the assorted mythological and/or fantastic critters they contain.  This series would likely qualify.  Anyone care to add it?  Tamtrible (talk) 23:55, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anyone more familiar with the series than I care to add it to this list? 

message: I kinda feel like the sentence  should be moved out of where it is and into the "Derived works" section, as it looks really out of place where it is, and both the cited source and (virtually?) every other possible source discussing that point would be a source about the TV show Game of Thrones, rather than a chronological history of the publication of the book series. Thoughts? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:26, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Foreshadowing" the HBO series? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 20 external links on A Song of Ice and Fire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20470532_20511966,00.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120204044334/http://www.georgerrmartin.com/archive01.html to http://www.georgerrmartin.com/archive01.html
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: *
*
This is the vanguard of a second wave of an AFD offensive on Game of Thrones-related characters.  Note also that there's a proposal to prevent new users from commenting at AfD.  That might be significant for such a high-traffic article and so provides good context. I've added lots of sources.  WP:Hey, but more is always in order  7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:15, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The above blatantly non-neutral message is inappropriate canvassing -- "the vanguard of a second wave of an AFD offensive"!? For one thing, whether (and which!) individual ASOIAF characters should get standalone articles has been a controversial issue among ASOIAF editors for years (I remember having a conversation about the banned editor User:AffeL's creations back before he was banned), and this "second wave" thing is a conspiracy theory dreamed up by the WP:ARS crowd that is quite out of line with the facts, and WP:HEY clearly doesn't apply when the article was WP:ALLPLOT at the time of nomination and still is now. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:27, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Up for deletion [[Myrcella Baratheon]]

message: I inserted a section A Song of Ice and Fire#Word usage in the books, and it was deleted twice as trivia by the same editor. I do not want to start an edit war, so please let us discuss here whether or not this section has merit. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:40, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, unsourced material does not belong into articles and can be removed immediately. WP:INDISCRIMINATE  also applies. WikiHannibal (talk) 08:36, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The source is the books that this article is about. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:08, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a primary source. Are there reliable, secondary or tertiary sources on the topic? Dimadick (talk) 10:02, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually the books do not provide an analysis of this "word usage", so there is not even a primary source. This appears to be completely original research. -- Fyrael (talk) 18:46, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Word usage in the books :: keep or delete this section? 

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message: This interview from June 2021 seems to suggest that Martin is now planning to end the series with Book 6. Might be worth updating the appropriate sections. 70.73.90.119 (talk) 15:04, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so; the article doesn't actually make that claim. Saying the article "seems to suggest" that is based on how you interpret Martin saying "I'm still working on the book but you'll see my ending when that comes out." But if there was actual reason to believe the number of books was changing, that would have been the headline of the article! AJD (talk) 16:26, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not necessarily. And I probably should have linked to the original TV interview the news site was reporting on. I think this page and the news station missed the news. (I work as a news editor and there were questions I would have jumped in with had I been conducting the interview and for me the news is the fact he suggests in the interview the series ends with the next book and I would have asked him if that's what he meant.). That said, I did not add to the main article for two reasons. One is this is a "good" article so adds need to be approved and also it's possible as you suggest that Martin might be giving the wrong impression. However, and this is totally anecdotal so again has no place in the article, this isn't the first time I have read Martin interviews suggesting that he's ending it with Book 6 (indeed this very article has content indicating that Martin will decide what to do with Book 7 after 6 is done). So I've just put it here as a heads up. Maybe a reporter will ask the right questions next time and we'll get a more clear answer from Martin. 70.73.90.119 (talk) 18:07, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Are there things he says in the interview other than "you'll see my ending when that comes out" that give that impression? But anyway, unless we have reliable sources stating that he may be planning to end the series after book 6, it doesn't belong here. AJD (talk) 18:48, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: June 2021 interview: series may end with Winds of Winter

message: Regarding A Song of Ice and Fire as his masterpiece, Martin is certain never to write anything on this scale again
I'd say this is a bit of an odd statement by now, considering the author is approaching the age of his life expectancy and it's taking him over a decade to finish the next novel in the series. If he ever will (which i wholeheartedly hope). PizzaMan ♨♨♨ 18:07, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  No other big book series