Talk:African Americans/Archive 10

message: First of all... Why "Early Smells"? Dunno the sense of that title and all I can guess is it is some sort of veiled offense or something... Now... America and Africa are whole continents... So why the centrism? I mean... A Canadian caucasian whose grandparents come from South Africa and are also all caucasians and Colombian descendant of the non-black not-purely caucasian inhabitants of Egypt... They are african americans too... Really the neutrality of this article must be checked with magnifying lenses...Herle King 02:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Early Smells and not-in-the-US

message: Why is it that a hyphen is always used with Irish-American, German-American, Mexican-American, etc. but it's not used in the title for this article? I see "African American" more often without the hyphen than with it, although it would seem to me that the hyphen belongs, if only to make the style uniform with similar labels. Even contributors to this discussion page have often used the hyphen. So does anyone know why there's no hyphen in the title of this article or elsewhere? Noroton 02:38, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Move to African-American? -- Maethon (talk) 21:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I believe the hyphenated version is definitely the correct term and grammar. – Quoth 11:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: African American or African-American with a hyphen??

message: Why does the writer compare the earnings of african americans to eastern european countries? And conclude this as a significant point?? Why doesn't the writer compare the earnings of african american to a sub saharan country, for instance Nigeria? What would be the conclusions you could draw then? Surely the idea is ridiculous that this can be done with so many factors involved.........
Bubble 25 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bubble25 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What comparison?? 

message: This sentence directly contradicts the source listed.  
The source states directly on the first page that The term “White” refers to people having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who reported “White” or wrote in entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or
Polish.''
The sentence should be changed to read "people having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa." as originally posted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.227.202.15 (talk) 18:27, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "white" people, that is, "people having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe[6 

message: I wonder if it is completely accurate to list him as the only AA member of Senate, when 50% of his ethnicity is not identifiable as AA?  I know he refers to himself as such, but in the context of this entries definition of AA, does he fit?  Wouldn't he more accurately be defined as multiracial?
ARMeck 13:53, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember seeing an african-american commentator on a TV news pundit show calling Obama an african-african-american and not a real african-american, because he did not have enslaved african ancestors who were sold into America, and his racial mixing was not with other Americans. But these cultural issues bring up some things. Immigrants from Africa, whose children assimilate into african-american culture, and are for all their behaviour, language and personality, typical of non-immigrants, would they qualify in the more restrictive sense of african-american? 132.205.44.134 02:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, here in America, mixed blacks are African-American to most people. It's still left over from the One-drop rule. My son, is "mixed" or multiracial, (his father calls him a "breed" tsk) and he is always considered as African-American, but does not self identify as such, he has a tattoo on the back of his neck, like the check boxes on forms, for "other"; check box and all. :( There were no "multiracial" boxes to check. There may be soon. And now, on the census form, one can choose from more than one box. It's silly and It's very complicated, it's not easy to catagorize or explain. I see it and experience it all the time. Probably half the "black" American people don't know where their ancestors originally came from, because of slavery. Plus, some do not have the money for the expensive DNA tests they are now doing, or else do not want to, because it is their identity, and it's a sense of belonging for the long history of prejudice that still very much exists here in the USA. (Many do not believe they are prejudiced either.) Although, it's getting better, but not fast enough. - Jeeny Talk 04:26, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barack Obama and African -American? 

message: It is important to note:  the term "mulatto" was not only designated to people of half pure African blood and half pure European blood. In the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries the term "mulatto" was also used to define American people of mixed African and Native American blood; mixed European and Native American blood; as well as people who were descended from any one of these unions, or a mixture of all of them. Incidentally, the term "mulatto" was also used to describe many Native American groups who have origins in North Carolina and Virginia. [I.E. the Saponi Nation, etc]. 
Keith J. Adkins
Keithjosef 14:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The term "Mulatto" 

message: I found a citation for the 'one-drop' rule.  This might help with the needed citation under the Heading "Who is African American?".
Block quote start:
In the southern United States, the social construction of race was known as the "one-drop rule."  This traditional stipulated that if a person had even a single drop of "Black-blood," that person was defined and viewed as Black.
Block quote end:
Bibliographic Info Start:
Main Author: Schaefer, Richard T. 
Book Title: Racial and Ethnic Groups, Tenth Edition. 
Editor: Leah Jewell
Copyright Year: 2006. 
ISBN: 0-13-192897-X. 
Trademark holder (think publisher) Location: Upper Saddle River.  
Page Reference: Page 13.
Date Accessed: 2_6_2007
Bibliographic Info End:
Unfortunately the book doesn't mention a date of when this rule started.  I would appreciate if someone could put my bibliographic info into an MLA citation.  I need a librarian or English/writing teacher to get it correct.  The MLA citation would be useful to me for other research paper citations of a textbook.  I don't find the Internet information on citation particularly clear.
User8402740 04:26, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the Out of Africa theory, all humans are descended from African human forebears... so would this rule mean that everyone is black? 132.205.44.134 03:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  'one-drop rule' citation 

message: I think we need a seperate page which just deals with Racism, anyone intrested let me know. Basically the page would expand on this but focus on the legacy of racism against African people globally. talk2 me--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 17:43, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New page needed for racism

message: I know that this may seem trivial to some, but I'm trying to have men and women represented equally on the various photo collages representing ethnic/racial groups found throughout Wikipedia. This African American photo collage features 6 people, yet only 2 of them are women.  In the interests of fairness and equality, please include another woman in the collage so that the collage is balanced (3 men and 3 women). Also, standard procedure is to alphabetize the names in the collage in order to avoid undue preference and bias. I would do this myself, but since I'm semi-computer illiterate when it comes to the 'complicated' stuff here on Wikipedia I don't know how to work with photos or anything like that.  Thanks!  --WassermannNYC 00:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please Fix/Adjust Photo Collage To Represent The Sexes Equally 

message: Because of the problems that Somalia has had over the years (particularly from about 1990-present time), many Somalis have immigrated to the USA as America has opened its borders to many needy (mostly persecuted) Somalis since it was controversially 'involved' in the politics of the country. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the people from Somalia are mostly/generally considered "Black" or "African" rather than Arab/Semitic, right? Wouldn't they then be considered a sub-set of the African American as opposed to the Arab/Semitic American?  Actually, it seems that the more Black/African type of Somali predominates in the south of the country, while there is quite a bit of Arab/Semitic admixture in the northern half of the country (with considerable amounts of African/Black and Arab/Semitic admixture throughout much of the entire country). 
There is also a sizable population of Somalis that came to the USA not only through Somalia once the USA accepted some of them (those fleeing war, strife, poverty, etc.), but some of them also came through Kenya since a large chunk of them live(d) there, and most of the population of Kenya is clearly African/Black. I don't want to seem like I'm indulging in a bunch of 'ethnic and/or racial theorizing' here, but I teach college in NYC and have had quite a few Somalis in some of my classes, and they clearly share more than a few physical features with Africans/Blacks (though often their skin color is often a few shades lighter than a very dark sub-Saharan African which presumably reflects their partial Arab/Semitic heritage: and they are of course almost always Muslims). Would they then qualify mostly as an Afro-Semitic people (kind of like Ethiopians), but with the 'Afro' part generally predominating?  I do hope that I don't offend anyone with this semi-rant and half-question/half-statement because I know this might seem a bit ridiculous, but I just thought I'd inquire about this since I've been very interested in Somalia and the Somali people lately and am trying to find out more about their country and ethnic origin(s); most especially though I would like to know if the Somalis currently living in the USA 'qualify' as African Americans (or at least some of them)?  --WassermannNYC 01:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay So what is the racial classification for Somali people in the UK. I didnt want to bring this up. In addition Ethiopian people legacy is not to White Arabs as Solomon is African according to their history. U might be ashamed but like AA, Somali people like everyone in Africa have identity issues. Yeah i meant Cushitic. In UK Somalia people are not in the black classification (despite being black people) they have a seperate racial box. look it up! while Ethiopians Dont!--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 14:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please dont try that with me i am a seasoned editor here i Know what ad hominen and WP:NPA, none of which applies. I am agruing that they r African American. what is your issue. In the UK however there is a black box and then a somali box. this is a fact. (africans) in (america) African-American.--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 15:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again an Italian American falls under White Americans, Japanese Americans or Chinese Americans fall under Asian Americans therefore it is correct to classify Black africans who migrated to the US and have build a life there as African Americans or Black Americans. Nobody is forcing you to discuss this issue if it as you say is getting on your nerves i suggest you took a break from Wikipedia and came back when your calmer  RoboRanks 19:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

text: U also have to look at trends, the majority of people in America are White. If the majority where AA i bet you would find that a Somali in US would b Somali American. this is how classification works. Somali-African American for clarity. All of these Africans are natives of Africa. this is why i hate the word black African, because all Africans are black as someone said you dont get green Africans or White Chinese. if they are the majority they dont bear the adjective. like American-Human, they all human (save Bush and condi)--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 20:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Newspapers in the United States describe Nigerians living in Nigeria as "African-American." They use it as a (ridiculous) substitute term for "Black."  There's no science or reason that will make sense of this, and no absolutes. We could get some precision if we were to discuss "people discriminated against in the United States for their (apparent) (at least partial) African (usually Bantu) heritage" or "people discriminated against in the United Staes for their (apparent) descent from slaves" ... but those are not options editors are likely to flock to. Jd2718 16:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Blacks in the US are not "usually Bantu" in heritage.  As I understand it, there's a fair amount of Bantu heritage, but at least as much, if not more, from the non-Bantu peoples of West Africa like the  Yoruba, Akan, Wolof, etc. john k 20:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about the [[Somali people]] currently living in the USA? 

message: Why is the term nigger not mentioned in the "Terms no longer used" section? If this is to be politically correct or sensitive, Wikipedia is not censored (WP:CENSORED). --Sarcha 45 18:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: because mayb it is still in use?--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 20:01, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

text: It was never used as a term for the entire race. It's always been derogatory. ɱўɭĩєWhat did I dowrong 02:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nigger? 

message: Does anyone find the the income of the African American total compared to the incomes of countries such as Brazil laughable? To compare two populations with no historical, cultural, or geographical similarity is beyond stupidity. If it were an attempt to barg about African Americans, the author did a pretty bad job of it. It could be said in the White American article that the collective income of White Americans is greater than ten times Africa's GDP to show you how senseless it is. African Americans can only be compared with other groups in the United States. I propose removing such ridiculous comarisons.
07:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The section also uses various sources to construct an argument. See Wikipedia:No original research which states "Editors often make the mistake of thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article in order to advance position C. However, this would be an example of a new synthesis of published material serving to advance a position, and as such it would constitute original research." Below is the removed section.-- Zleitzen(talk) 08:20, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economic Status 

message: Why does our picture show three prominent African American Republican political figures from the latter half of the 20th century? This seems highly disproportionate.  Rice, in particular, as being neither the first black nor the first female secretary of state, seems like a stretch to justify on quasi-objective grounds.  Why these three and not, say, Robert C. Weaver, the first black cabinet secretary, or Thurgood Marshall, the first black Supreme Court Justice (both Democrats)?  The choice of images seems intended to push a political agenda.  john k 20:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: I take offense to this, what is her grading to be in that picture with King? Y not put in a real African American like the man that came up with the term MALCOLM X. I am changing that picture and dropping condi. letting u know. U must be kidding, put AA that people rally behind not the white mans mouth piece. Yeah those two house negroes are history, AA have a legacy and we put forward the tokens to represent OFFENSIVE. even if you dispute that, i think u will find people put forward those that championed the cause. it is impossible not to add Malcolm X, he coined the term, Douglas over Condi, i think we can agree. Powell isnt even really Black (per his own statements)--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 00:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Although this is a couple of months old, I'm just reading it. And your comment offends me!!! and is a big part of the problem, and no where near a solution. Keeping stereo-types alive and such, by using terms such as "house negroes"!! Do you not know that there are young black youth that are so pressured to not succeed because of comments such as these??!!! Afraid to be consider "white" and therefore a "race traitor". Knock this shit off. Cut it out, dammit! Geez. - Jeeny Talk 04:43, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Y is condi in that picture???????

message: I noticed this article, and it seemed likely to me that there must be another article already on this topic which this could be merged with... but I couldn't find one anywhere.  Perhaps someone here can merge this with another already existing one, or if not, expand it, as there must be more to say about it.  And Blacktress can't be the best title for it.  --Xyzzyplugh 20:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Blacktress]]

message: There were no "African Americans" in the United States in 1790.  There were (legally) slaves.  More than ninety percent of the Negroes in the United States in 1790 were (legally) slaves.  No slaveowner ever said that his slaves were any sort of "Americans" — George Washington, e. g., never said that his saves were "Americans."  People should quit re-writing American history books.  It makes Wikipedia seem like an ongoing soap opera.  GhostofSuperslum 19:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Retrofitting of history books

message: IF YOU "SMART" PEOPLE READ, THE CHART SAID METROPOLITAN AREA NOT THE CITY LIMITS. SO WHOEVER CHANGED THAT NEEDS TO GO FIX THAT.
75.21.211.254 00:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WHO CHANGED THE CHART? 

message: I think the entire section is not necessary. There's a different Wiki for that, Wikiquote. The section should be transwikied there, and erased here. Every single one of the quotes is from a black person, that's Afrocentric and obviously POV. They aren't very encyclopedic anyway. ɱўɭĩєWhat did I dowrong 04:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I deleted the section. I transwikied it to African American. I think that's where it should stay. ɱўɭĩєWhat did I dowrong 20:05, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes Section 

message: An IP adress user, 67.173.6.76 added some things from someone named "Maddox" to the section. here it is: 
Maddox stated, in a post on May 6, 2006:
"Every time you call someone an "African American," you're making at least two assumptions about the person:
1. That the person is an American...
2. That the person is African (because it's inconceivable that black people could come from Haiti, India, Trinidad, Dominican Republic, Brazil, Australia, or Jamaica). Nevermind that; BLACK PEOPLE ONLY COME FROM AFRICA.
Not to mention that every time you give a black person the distinction of being "African American" out of a mixed group, you're making an assumption about an entire continent; not everyone from Africa is black. I guarantee all you politically correct morons out there have never called a white person an African American. Of course you could avoid all these problems by using the same standards on blacks as you would on whites by simply assuming that all whites are from Africa just as you do for all blacks, but that might be too forward, and in a polite society like ours, people would be all too pleased to point out which of the 192 countries you didn't guess they were actually from."
The Maddox links to a disambiguation page. If anyone can find out who this Maddox is and if the person is a good source, we should be able to use some of the information, but it's really unnecessary. I just wanted to note that I was deleting it, beause at this point, none of the information is NPOV or even from a reputable source.
ɱўɭĩєWhat did I dowrong 19:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New part of "Criticisms of the term" section 

message: Aids in African American Community are still the most racial group affected by HIV/AIDS -- please clarify 67.180.140.169 00:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contemporary issues 

message: Why does the term "you people" redirect to this article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tazzy531 (talk • contribs) 03:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "You People" 

message: AFRICAN WERE NICE PEOPLE.SO AM I SO WE NEED KNOW THAT POEOPLE ARE BALICK DOSE NOT MEAN THAT THEY AER NOT NICE AND MEAN+I AM NICE TOO.IWE SHOUD BE NICE TO THEM.JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE BACLK.I AM NOT BALCK BUT I SEE THE WAY THEY TREAT THRM. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.80.129.211 (talk) 15:32, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  JANIRA MARTINEZ  

message: I think that the opening sentence of this article contradicts the rest of article with regards to who is African-American and who is not.  For example, the article agrees that Afro-Latinos and blacks from the West Indies prefer to use Latino, Afro-Latino, or their nation of origin over African-American.  The first sentence however states that an African-American is anyone with sub-Saharan ancestry living in America. In my opinion, the article should therefore endorse the fact that the term African-American should not be used in lieu of black or used for all black Americans. The recent controversy over Barak Obama's "blackness" raised by African-American (i.e. those whose descendants are from the Antebellum South)political commentators illustrates the need to lessen the broad definition of who is an African-American and who is not.  One also needs to remember that there are very distinct cultural differences between blacks migrants to the United States and African-Americans, the most important being that one group voluntarily migrated to the United States and the other did not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.165.203.103 (talk) 17:15, April 29, 2007
: You raise very good points. I would note however that the article is, or ought to be, descriptive and shouldn't "endorse" anything or be prescriptive ("should not be used").
: I would suggest adding a second paragraph to the lede summarizing the facts in your comment. Be bold and add it. — Malik Shabazz | Talk 19:20, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Contradiction

message: I question the following statements in the article, and would like somebody to produce a source that can support them:
* White Americans forcibly bred African American sons and daughters with their own mothers and fathers
* [White Americans] forced them to wear mouth bits like horses in order to break their spirits
I'm not looking to minimize the savagery of enslavement and American apartheid, but these statements seem over-the-top and inconsistent with anything I've read on the subject. These "facts" aren't even mentioned in History of slavery in the United States. If somebody thinks there's any truth to them, I'd appreciate some verification. Thanks. — Malik Shabazz | Talk 00:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious statements 

message: Please take a look at African-American organized crime. The problem with the title is that it is ambiguous, it appears to link African Americans with the notion of "organized crime" implying guilt by association. A better heading may be African Americans and organized crime or some other more neutral heading you may wish to suggest. I have tried to do the same with Jewish-American organized crime by changing it to American Jews and organized crime but I was reverted, see Talk:Jewish-American organized crime#Recent page move. Only three articles in :Category:Organized crime groups have this kind of "title": African-American organized crime; Greek-American organized crime and Jewish-American organized crime. So will there be 134 articles in the future about "Foo organized crime" for all 134 categories in :Category:American people by ethnic or national origin and indeed for every class of human on Earth without hypocrisy??? Note how there is no article for Italian American organized crime as it's simply and correctly called Mafia. African Americans and Jewish Americans are not connected with organized crime as "representatives" or "symbols" of their race or religion. Every group has its criminals. So what else is new. Sure there are "gangs" just as there are :Category:Mafia gangs in :Category:Mafia groups (and by the way, if there are such African American or Jewish American gangs or groups then name them, but let's not leave it as if "guilt" is being laid at the door of all African Americans or Jewish Americans etc), but the titles African-American organized crime or Jewish-American organized crime makes it sound, way, way bigger than it is in reality, and could easily slip into racism and antisemitism if not handled in a scrupulously WP:NPOV manner 100% of the time! The job of Wikipedia should not be to magnify the problem which is called POV editing, but to depict things accurately as they are. Please add your views. Thank you, IZAK 00:52, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  African-American organized crime  

message: Can we compromize a bit? My ageing vision can hardly recognize her at 200 px. --Dumarest 14:17, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Oprah image

message: I removed this because Obama is not technically an African American. He is an American of African descent, but not African American.--Sefringle 02:24, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you care to explain why not? — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 02:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to this article, "African Americans are considered primarily descendants of enslaved Africans." His mother is white, and his father is from Kenya . Since his father is from Kenya, Obama's ancestors could not possibly have been descendants of enslaved Africans. He would fit more accurately in the article: African Immigration to the United States.--Sefringle 02:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I think he'd be more accurately described as African and American or an American of African descent. But African American, not by the second two definitions.--Sefringle 03:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Obama image

message: A bunch of Ethnicity-American actors categories have been nominated for deletion, for example, :Category:African American actors, etc etc.  If you have an opinion on the matter, please comment here - Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_May_25#Category:American_actors_by_ethnicity.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 04:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  XXX-American actors categories nominated for deletion.