Talk:Unforgivable Curses

message: I checked the Lexicon and also my UK version of Chapter 9. It's implied, but not stated (the fact that Rowle is writhing on the floor strongly suggests this, though) that Draco is being forced to use it on the Death Eater. Should this be added into the table, or as a note at the end regarding possible ambiguity? --24.84.67.227 07:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cruciatus by Draco Malfoy in DH? 

message: I was reading thru the article and noticed how Albus Dumbledore is listed as a known victim of the Avada Kedavra curse casted by Severus Snape in HBP. There is also mention of Cedric Diggory's fate in GoF, as well as revealing critical plot details in GoF (Barty Crouch Jr. impersonating Alastor Moody). Should this warrant for a spoiler warning to be attached to this article? 124.217.27.0 00:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler warning? 

message: Voldemort didn't use Imperius to make Harry bow, he just used a magical telekinesis to make Harry bow. Confirmed in Goblet of Fire book, Harry feels his body moved but none of the happiness that is supposed to take place under Imperius.
:I agree completely. It was not Imperius, and a long time ago I edited it as such. Harry can throw off the Imperius curse. Some ignorant person has clearly reinstated this erroneous fact. (Mike Connor, hidden email)
::He may not be able to throw off the Imperius curse if performed by voldemort. I hadn't edited it though just commenting Wolfmankurd 18:22, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is entirely possible that Voldemort may have made Harry bow with a nonverbal Imperius curse. Please refrain from calling people ignorant when they simply may have thought of something you did not. Thanks! --Problematik 04:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed with above. Both Dumbledore, and Voldemort are capable of not having to say a single thing while in a duel. Basketball110 21:56, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crucio by MEM 

message: Are you sure about it been Barty Crouch Jnr. who cast the spell, been right at the start of the book I would have thought it was Mad Eye himself.Medscin 12:23, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It was Barty Jr..  Moody was brought out of retirement to teach, but was attacked and subdued in his own home, then locked in his own trunk(The attack was mentioned in one of the first couple chapters, as Mr. Weasley had to set things right, due to the dustbins attacking an "intruder."  It was labeled a false alarm by the imposter, and since Moody had a reputation for paranoia, it was easily believed).--Vercalos 20:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crucio by MEM 

message: The article currently states that we first see the Avada Kedavra being used on a human being in GoF when Frank Bryce is killed.  However, although it's true that we first see the whole thing (incantation and effect) in GoF, we have already seen the effect in the first film (when Lily is killed), and we've heard at least part of the incantation in the second film (when Lucius Malfoy tries to use it on Harry just outside Dumbledore's office, ridiculously uncanonical and unlikely as this would be).  Is there a way we can clarify this a bit more?  Tobelia 02:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: First view of the Killing Curse

message: "Fawkes [HP4] Lord Voldemort Struck by curse aimed at Dumbledore, burst into flames, reborn again from ashes."
I don't remember Voldemort and Dumbledore even being in the same location in the entire Goblet of Fire, so how could Voldemort aim a spell at him?--Vercalos 20:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Killing Curse+Fawkes=Fire?

message: Shouldn't Barty Crouch Sr. be included as well?  At the end of the book(Not at all in the movie), Barty CrouCch Jr. admitted to having Barty Crouch Sr. under the Imperius Curse,  Which the article mentioned they ended up learning to throw off through repeated exposure.--Vercalos 20:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you know it to be true, and could document it with "chapter and verse" if asked, then by all means add it.  T-dot 20:46, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was hoping someone else could.  I dont actually own the book so couldn't say which chapter it was mentioned in--Vercalos 20:59, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Minor edit. Added  before the last 2 columns of the table; to warn wiki users, who may not have read  yet; or who are reading , but have not reached that part. Jacnoc (Desk) -- 23:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Victims of Imperius Curse

message: Do we have text in the books that says they were necessarily killed by Avada Kedavra or is that speculation? JoshuaZ 03:40, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's speculation..  At least with Karkaroff.  Bertha was probably killed by the Avada Kedrava, considering at the end of GoF she appears along with everyone up to Harry's parents that was killed by that wand, and if it was a spell other than the killing curse, the apparition probably would have been different(IE the silver hand showing up instead of Wormtail).  It is never explicitly stated, but it is strongly implied by this scene.--Vercalos 16:08, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Per your comment, I am going to remove Karkaroff and leave in Bertha. JoshuaZ 16:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Due to the name "The Killing Curse," I assumed there was only one way to kill somebody (excluding a Dementor's soul-sucking). Then again, it's not canon. --Fbv65edel (discuss | contribs) 00:08, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:   The magical system is not fully self-consistent, but there are other indications that it isn't the only way. For example, in book 3, Harry points his wand at Sirius's heart and presumably has in mind a spell that will at that very close range kill Sirius. Also, Quirrel in book one is described as raising his hands to cast "a killing curse" (I think those are the words, I don't have it in front of me). Finally, in the battle in the Department of Magic, Voldemort uses multiple other spells to try to kill Dumbledore (mainly transfigurations) (in that case, it seems like Avada Kedavra is too slow to be effective as a battle spell against Dumbledore). Avada Kedavra seems to be the most convenient method of killing when one has the ability to cast it and the opponent is unable to move quickly. JoshuaZ 15:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sectumsepra would easily kill someone I think the killing curses is seen as so bad because it shows the intention to kill. Also if you consider that it's possible to cast the spell and it not result in death maybe it would be unwise to use it against Dumbledor while he is at full health/ has a wand to reduce it's effect. Wolfmankurd 18:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed above. In book 7, if Snape cuts George's ear off, he could probably kill. Basketball110 00:17, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bertha and Igor 

message: It's a big pain if you want to link to any of the Unforgiveable Curses. Suppose I wanted to tell you about the Imperius Curse in another article. This would require the wiki text Imperius, which, after all that, would show up simply as Imperius. Can't we shorten the section names a bit? --Fbv65edel (discuss | contribs) 00:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On it, later today. --Kizor 04:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link names 

message: The article claims that Voldemort tried to use Avada Kedavra on Dumbledore in their duel. I don't recall this, and don't have the book in front of me. Can someone confirm this?JoshuaZ 04:41, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be the one Fawkes intercepted. I recall a statue threw itself at another, too. --Kizor 16:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort 

message: The IPA at the top of the article uses 'ae' (as in cat, right?) for all the A's in avada kedavra. Is this correct? I was under the impression that it was 'ah' sounds (as in don or wand), and it's hard to use 'ae' in unaccented syllables. I don't have the movies to check; also, is there a difference between the official pronunciation and the movie version?
ETA: Yeah, and the 'e' there is also given the 'ae' pronunciation, which is clearly erroneous. Kilyle 05:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Pronunciation is always a tricky thing to convey here - even with IPA. To me, "Wand and Don" do not have "AH" sounds in them in any shape or form.70.189.213.149 (talk) 19:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  True Pronunciation? 

message: About Lucius Malfoy's use of the killing curse in the movie version of the Chamber of Secrets, I don't think he was using that curse. I've looked at the captioning of the movie and what I got was not "Avada...", but instead "Vera...". Is there any curse or spell that sounds like that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.179.29.79 (talk • contribs).
:Odd, I do believe my CoS DVD shows "Avada..." Jutm543 22:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's definatly avada... from what I hear. maybe the caption was done by one of those speech recognision bots and it mess up. Wolfmankurd 21:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded. Malfoy wanted to use the killing curse... but perhaps not on Harry. It can be argued that, even in anger, he realized that Dumbledore and company would not have hesitated to dismantle him and/or send him to Azkaban. Rotten Venetic 21:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Correction

message: Do we add links to other wikis?--Vercalos 23:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other wikis? 

message: I don't know if Harry's use of Crucio against Bellatrix should be considered dubious. Sure, it was poorly executed ("You have to mean it"), but it was the curse nonetheless and it did cause, however shortly, the desired effect. I don't want to change it yet (though I may shortly), and you may not like it but Harry did indeed perform Crucio. 
OK, he wasn't prosecuted, but he was using it against a Death Eater and fugitive from Azkaban currently doing the bidding of Voldemort and was proven right in the sight of MoM Cornelius Fudge and Dumbledore. I hardly think they would prosecute him for that when they now have  bigger fish to fry. Valley2city 22:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It didn't do what Bellatrix says it should do, but it undeniably did do something. Nonetheless, it is ambiguous as to whether it did what it was meant to do (according to Bellatrix: although I would say that is merely her interpretation of what it is meant to do rather than a cast-iron definition) And, incidentally, it was far worse before I altered it. Michaelsanders 01:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Harry did use it on Bellatrix, but Vally is correct - no jury would convict, and the ministry wanted Potter's support at the time, meaning prosecution was political suicide.  Harry never really did get the hang of unforgivable curses while he used them as a necessary means to raid the Lestrange vault at Gringotts.  As far as his use of it on Carrow... well, Harry does have his limits to his temper, and after a year of being on the run, with plenty of narrow escapes, he hit his boiling point when Carrows spit in McGonnagalls' face.  Harry always respected her as a fair (if strict) teacher, and I think he managed to embarrass her when he tortured Carrows.  It wasn't just McGonnagall, it was the torture of Neville and Seamus and the rest of Dumbledore's Army.  It was time Carrow got as good as he gave.  209.210.150.61 11:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

text: It didn't cause excruciating pain, but it did cause some pain - i.e. it did work, but not as it is meant to. That, to me, would make it 'ambiguous'. Michaelsanders 14:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

text: To continue: if some people think it is a successful use, and others think it is a failed use, then - unless Rowling says one or the other - 'dubious' is the best compromise. Michaelsanders 14:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Accepted 1sildo618 21:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They may not perscuite because they have no proof harry did it to bellatrix, they never know who performed a curse if they detected it they would probably assume it was a death eater also, all unforgivable curses are used frequently without consequences. Wolfmankurd 18:22, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crucio by Harry 

message: Somewhere in the book series, (I think in the fourth book where Moody demonstrates the Killing Curse or when Snape kills Dumbledore) there is a sound mentioned as the swishing of wings through the air when the curse is cast.  I think this sound might be a reference to crows/vultures (both associated with death), or the Christian/ Semitic Angel of Death, Satan, Mephistopheles, or the Grim Reaper, who all occaisionally appear with wings.  Anyone know if this is true, or if Rowling ever mentioned where she got this idea?
 Any contribution is welcome.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.8.226.109 (talk) 04:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avada Kedavra/Angel of Death? 

message: Surely the use of Avada Kedavra on Dumbledore by Snape is dubious because Dumbledore didn't just drop dead like all other victims.
Not sure what Rowling has said on this issue - she has said he is dead, but still the use of the Killing Curse is dubious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.4.237.219 (talk) 20:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Dumbledore did drop dead - albeit, through a window. In my opinion, Snape's Avada Kedavra was clean. Rotten Venetic 22:09, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snape and Avada Kedavra 

message: I could be misremembering, but wasn't the DA snitch placed under Imperio in Dumbledore's office, to make her lie about how many times they'd met?  204.97.183.31 17:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. That was a memory modification spell. JoshuaZ 17:07, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imperius in Dumbledore's Office 

message: I've been seeing a lot of vandalism in this article, such as replacing words with pointless, sexually suggestive terms.  I request that this page be semi-protected because of the vandalism.
Thank you Earthere 03:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requesting Semi-protection 

message: Didn't Quirrel try to use this curse in the first book but was unable to cause of Harry touching him?212.219.240.212 12:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quirrell and Avada Kedavra 

message: In my opinion, I don't think that Sirius should be listed as a true victim of Avada Kedavra, and Bellatrix as a caster, as this only takes place in the film adaptations and not in the true history of the books. Maybe we could have small note beneath the list. Even even though it states "film only", it isn't the true novel history. Any thoughts? Eagle Owl 15:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we should include this anyway and have an asterisk like we have for Molly Weasley's killing of Bellatrix. Valley2city 23:43, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some ignorant person said that Molly used the Killing on Bella, but this is not true. There are other ways of killing. Bella did die, but not of Avada Kedavra. Basketball110 15:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bellatrix, Sirius and Avada Kedavra

message: I removed the second mentioning of Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort each because Voldemort's entry was plain wrong, and both were redundant as each individual's encounter of being hit with the curse again is recorded in the table already.--Problematik 04:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of two victims of the Avada Kedavra Curse

message: Where is there any evidence that his killing of twelve Muggles was with the AK curse? We're told he killed them all with one curse, and everything else we know about AK indicates that it's cast in a particular direction, not at everyone in an area. As they were Muggles, if he cast a spell that caused an explosion it's likely that would have killed them. 213.249.135.41 20:26, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sirius was accused of this, but are we sure that this actually happened? Basketball110 15:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pettigrew 

message: well...a spider is included as a victim of the killing curse...but actually the impersonated Mad-Eye has also performed the other two unforgivable curses on two other spiders...
However I think this victim is so insignificant that I cannot decide whether it is better to add "a spider" to both the other two curses' victims, or to delete this victim from the victim of the killing curse.
::IMO leave it in. It got hit with AK, so it counts. just IMO--Problematik 19:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A spider? 

message: Is there any chance we can change the simple (non IPA) pronounciation for the killing curse to something that better fits with both American and Commonwealth English pronounciation?
If you're in America, the "vaw" and "daw" in "UH-vaw-DUH KEH-daw-VRUH" are pronounced as the curse is pronounced in the movies and so forth, but for those of us in England, Australia etc, "vaw" and "daw" rhyme with "ore".   I think we can agree it isn't pronounced "UH-vore-DUH" etc.
Wouldn't "UH-vah-DUH KEH-dah-VRUH" satisfy both accented pronounciations?70.189.213.149 12:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't we just use the Aramaic pronunciation as the standard? Of course, then again, you have so many different dialects in Aramaic that we would be having the same discussion over which Aramaic variant to use... Valley2city 23:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciation Again. 

message: Though the name of the curse that killed the female Death Eater is not told explicitly, it is likely that Molly used the AK. Both women were fighting to kill, and Lestrange dropped dead after being struck in the chest. In any case, Molly Weasley certainly "meant" it, for she furiously defended her one daughter, being upset after Fred's misfortune, not to mention Bellatrix making fun at her. Should we write down B. Lestrange in the "known victims of the AK" table?
:No. Basketball110 15:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Molly Weasley vs Bellatrix Lestrange 

message: Didn't Dumbledore's sister get struck by a killing curse during the time that Arberforth, Albus, and Grindlewald were dueling? I can't remember, and if she did, should she be added to the list? --VorangorTheDemon 04:05, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was left deliberately unknown; Albus Dumbledore never recovered from that particular duel with himself, Grindlewald, and Aberforth, and always feared he killed his sister.  What is known is that there were plenty of spells bouncing around as well as Ariana's uncontrolled magic.  Rowlings has stated that Dumbledore's boggart is Ariana's corpse, and what he sees in the Mirror of Erised is his family, all alive and happy together.  Dumbledore spent his life filled with guilt.  He probably sees Harry, who while not as magically talented as himself, as a younger, uncorrupted version of what he aspired to.  Jclinard 11:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dumbldore's sister?

message: The 5 muggles mentioned in book 7 during potterwatch aren't listed in the Avada Kedavra victims list. And Hedwig isn't known to have been killed by Lord Voldemort, and as long as animals are listed, Bellatrix killed a fox in book 6 while visiting Snape, and Crouch kills a couple of spiders in book 4. And Voldemort kills a room full of people and goblins when he finds out Bellatrix's vault was broken into. Beast of traal T C 22:38, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  some more victims: 

message: I added the notability tag to  as I believe that there is no evidence within the page that the topic meets the notability guidelines set out in WP:NN and WP:FICT. There is only one indepednet secondary source given on the page and that is only to give a definiton of a word. It may well be that notability can be established but I don't think there is anything wrong with having the tag in place until it is. [[Guest9999 22:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability Tag 

message: Such as giving someone extreme pleasure or bringing them back from the dead...?
-G 23:50, 5 September 2007 User:134.117.158.83
:True resurrection has been stated several times to be completely impossible. There is a spell for making someone happy, but it's a Charm.  These Curses are Unforgivable because their uses are purely malicious and are legally left unforgiven (each will result in a lifetime term in Azkaban).  There's no "forgivable curses," just spells that aren't felonious.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 05:14, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Are there 'forgivable curses'?

message: This article asserts no notability of the topic, has no out of universe references, such as the unforgivable curses occuring in popular culture, or a developed discussion of how Rowling came up with the curses, here influences, and so forth. As this information probably doesn't exist, it would be best to merge it into the article that deals with all the spells she came up with, and have one well written complete article instead of two unreferenced and thin articles. Judgesurreal777 06:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger to Spells of Harry Potter article

message: I have a propositions:
I think: The spells in Harry Potter world, must in seperate article, because I want forfend wanton commotion, and I want, sort order in spell. I may help in sort odder in spells. Best regars Alden(Sharon boyfriend) or talk 22:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposites 

message: Can we say that Voldy killed Scrimegour by means of the Killing Curse? Basketball110 15:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rufus 

message: Fred was killed by an explosion, right? I took out his death by Avada Kedavra. If you disagree, tell here, or fix it. Basketball110 22:43, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frederick 

message: I was surprised to finde these lines in the article:
There are three types of this spell. One focuses on muscles. This requires a "Swish-and Stab" motion with one's wand. Another focuses on the bones. This requires a "Zig-Zag and Poke" motion with the wand. Finally, there is one focusing on the nervous system. This requires an "Up, Down, and Circle" motion
I don't know if J.K.Rowiling says this somewhere, so I'll just leave that lines where I found them, but I really don't think they're true. So, if you know certainly that they're false, please remove them!
Thanks, 87.24.15.6 (talk) 11:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like nonsense to me. Out they go. faithless (speak) 11:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three kinds of Cruciatus 

message: As is it well-known, this article does not meet the Notability criteria at all. In the WikiProject HP, this page was never considered to be kept with the Notability issues that have been taking place. Much more important issues in the HP books have been already merged (characters like Lupin, McGonagall or Umbridge, the blood purity, all the Hogwarts layout and locations, lots of lists and families, etc.) This article should be merged into the Spells in Harry Potter without those Wikitables with useless information about the times each curse has been used. If so, then we should include those tables into each curse and spell that has appeared in the series (expeliarmus, stupefy, sectumsempra, etc.) --Lord Opeth (talk) 18:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been 5 days since the proposal was posted. I will go ahead after 3 more days if there is no opposition. General information regarding the UC is already covered in Magic. The 3 curses are already listed in the Spells with the description and etymology. --Lord Opeth (talk) 21:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal