Talk:U2/Archive 3

message: Someone should add this info. -- rgawenda 02:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Be bold --Merbabu 02:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll try to, but hope a native English speaker does rewrite it if needed. Also thinking about the place I'd put it, or should be another place, section, or even its own? -- rgawenda 08:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from Island records to Mercury 

message: With all the fact tags, how can this article be called good? Jimcripps 05:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What about the references it does have? 41 so far. I have seen many GA's with a lot less references. at least they have been identified and are continually being filled. Bruce Springsteen, Marvin Gaye and Van Halen are all GA's with much less referenced material - and incidently less fact tags. Maybe the editors here have higher standards. I am sure those references will continue to be found. ;-)  --Merbabu 05:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I do agree that there are may refs all ready, it's just that the article looks spotty. I spent some time looking for a few refs, but the Net must be drained; have to hit the books/mags now. Jimcripps 14:25, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. I know it looks a bit scrappy now, but it is for the best. At least it is a flag for others. I'd help out too, but it is not a priority for me now - other real life and wikipedia priorities. I'll see what I can do next week --Merbabu 22:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Current ratio of references to citations needed, 46:26. And some of those 26 I really don't think need to be referenced. For example: "Following the Popmart Tour, the band played a brief concert in Belfast in May 1998, three days before the public voted in favour of the Northern Ireland Peace Accord.[citation needed]" Why is a citation needed there??? We might as well have a citation for "The associated Unforgettable Fire Tour saw U2 playing indoor arenas for the first time." Wikipedia brown 01:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You have a point. In theory, to have a reliable reference for everything would be great, but as you point out, it is a lot of work, and having a citation tag there that is never going to be filled can be distracting. Give me a week or two, when exams are over, and my job is quieter, and I will have a go. I might buy U2 by U2 soon, so there will be a heap of things that be quote from that. nice work so far with the references (and to others) --Merbabu 01:42, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks and don't worry this article is not going anywhere! Also, I added some more refs -- new ratio is 51:21. Wikipedia brown 05:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was the one who added the fact tags. My goal was to get people's attention to the absence of references throughout the article - maybe I exaggerated a little, but it worked... we have many more references now. --Kristbg 13:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The tags needed to go in. IN my old wiki age (6 months?) I am becoming a citation nazi, but it is all for quality. I agree though the tags look bad. But they are a necessary evil. OK, basically i agree with everyone. --Merbabu 13:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Then we all agree to agree? (Sorry, just had to say it.) Jimcripps 13:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, lets all agree. But what are we agreeing on again? I think we all agree, this article is getting there, slowly but certainly surely. It's a lotta fun.--Merbabu 14:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I agree. --Kristbg 15:17, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Only 10 "citations needed" left!!! Let's finish them off before Kristbg adds more! Wikipedia brown 04:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You better hurry, my fingers are itching... --Kristbg 12:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Added a few more references. We're almost ready for a peer review! --Kristbg 20:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Only two left. The one from Rolling Stone should be easy, but I'm not so sure about the other one... It actually sounds like original research. --Kristbg 21:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ye-ah! I managed to put one in myself today. Under a Blood Red Sky was a very good concert, even if I did see it on MTV. Those were the days... Go-go Peer Review. Jimcripps 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: YEs, those were the days. Certainly quaint and no doubt good at the time, but now so much better. lol --Merbabu 23:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we're down to one now. Does anyone have access to that RS magazine? --Kristbg 13:01, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...and we're done! Thanks for adding the last one, Merbabu! --Kristbg 13:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article?

message: I think there should be one or two sentences about Ground Beneath Her Feet and songs off the soundtrack (Stateless mainly). I'm going to add something under the collaborations sections since I can't seem to figure out where to insert it into the main text (came out in 2000 before ATYCLB). Thoughts? Wikipedia brown 01:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How to insert into text? Click "Edit this page". ;-)  Seriously though, I think the "other projects" section is good. I'd keep it very limited IMO. Maybe just 1 or 2 sentences.  --Merbabu 01:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for the suggestion! That "Edit" button is a well-guarded secret :-O Seriously though, I managed to keep it to one sentence, despite my penchant for detail. I also added another "citation needed" so we're back up to 5. Wikipedia brown 01:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Speaking of collaborations, it dawned on me when I read this section, where is Duets, or Frank Sinatra mentioned? I didn't see anything over at Bono either, but that's another article that needs attention. So, does "I've Got You Under My Skin" fit in here or at Bono? Jimcripps 02:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Be Bold. Don't worry, we'll edit it if we don't like it - ;-)   --Merbabu 03:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Million Dollar Hotel 

message: Hasn't one of U2's new singles 'Window in the Skies' to be released on their new Greatest Hits album just been leaked onto the internet? See xfm.co.uk for details.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Pechark (talk • contribs) 
* it's out on u218.com, but haven't listened to determine if it's complete--4.246.203.17 02:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Window in the Skies

message: With careful research, one finds that U2 wanted to release Passengers as a U2 album.  Bono has stated that he had a marketing idea to make it work. The record label said no, but accepted releasing it under a different name.  Don't put this in the article without sourcing.--4.246.203.17 02:25, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where did you find this? Could be interesting. The source i quoted in the article (U2's own book) has the band and their manager deciding on Passengers and I paraphrased this in my edits a week or so ago. --Merbabu 02:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Passengers 

message: I think that we should split up the Next Studio Album Recordings section into a section that covers "The Saints Are Coming"'s performance and recordings together with the released of U218 Singles from the rest of that section, because now that "Saints" and "Window" have already been recorded and U218 released, why should they still be under the next album?  Any one think differently?
Darkedge 03:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I made some changes . Basically, neither of these topics deserve their own sections. They are in the news now, but are not major events in the greater scheme of 30 year history. This page is more a summary, and for example, doesn't need a description of the 3 different release versions of a particular current single. Although, that info can of course go on that single's own article. regards --Merbabu 22:41, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Next Studio Album Recordings- Split Up 

message: I removed the trivia (listed below). There are many reasons - fundamentally though, trivia comes from the word trivial which means unimportant. Most of these facts are - the ones that are important are already in the article!!! Remember, this is an encyclopedia. That Bono's favourite colour is (apprently) amber is of no consequence for an encyclopedia article on U2, no relelvance at all. You might want to put it into a pop magazine though.
*Bono's favourite colour is amber.
*His favourite publican (stated in a performance in Dublin in 1997) is Paddy from the Dockers, a pub in Dublin.
*Bono is fluent in English, Italian and Spanish, and also knows some Irish. 
*Bono is the only person,who has been nominated for an Oscar, Grammy, Golden Globe,and a Nobel Prize. He won the Grammy (See below), Golden Globe (For The Song 'The Hands That Built America' from 'Gangs of New York'). He did not achieve success in the Oscars (nominated again for The Hands That Built America) or The Nobel Peace  
*The band has won 22 Grammy awards, the most for recording artists.
*U2 made their first appearance on US television on The Tomorrow Show hosted by Tom Snyder. It aired on June 4, 1981, and the band performed I Will Follow and Twilight, followed by an interview. 
*The Hype performed a farewell show for Dik Evans (The Edge's brother and former Hype member) in March 1978 at the Community Centre in Howth. Dik walked offstage halfway through the set and later joined the Virgin Prunes, a fellow Dublin band. The remaining four members finished their performance as U2. In May of that year, Paul McGuinness became U2's manager. 
*The Edge is an admirer of the writer, Samuel Beckett. 
*U2 appeared on the Simpsons. It was on the 200th episode called Trash of the Titans which aired in April of 1998. In the episode the PopMart tour visited Springfield. 
*U2 are one of only 4 Bands to appear on the cover of Time Magazine. The others are The Who, The Beatles and The Band. Time proclaimed them 'Rock's Hottest Ticket' in 1987.
*Reportedly, Bono actually wears his fashionable shades becuase he has an allergy to Salicylates.
*U2 but especially Bono and The Edge, are huge horse racing fans and punters.
*Bono and his wife Ali Hewson own a clothing named EDUN (spelled Nude backwards) together. 
--Merbabu 22:54, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia section

message: I tagged the promotional photo from the infobox, :Image:U2photo.jpg, as failing the fair use criteria.  If you disagree, I encourage you to bring it up on the image's talk page.  —ShadowHalo 17:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image fails fair use 

message: I'd like to start a section called "Themes and Style" perhaps before "Other projects and influences". This one will be a bit harder to write (don't want to include Original Research), but there is a need for it as suggested in the peer review. Here are some general notes:
Themes:
* Emotional: lonliness, yearning/longing, regret, woe (lots of references available)
* Religious/Spirtual: ubiquitous references to God, prayer, Christianity (see all of October album)
* Social/Political/Humanitarian: The Troubles in Ireland (Sunday Bloody Sunday), MLK (Pride), Aung San Suu Kyi (Walk On), Africa (Crumbs from your Table), etc
* Songs usually have deeper meanings  and work on multiple levels
* Add links to U2 MoL (Meaning of Lyrics) site for more references at the individual song level
Style:
* Edge's echo and delay effects, unique atmosphere and ambience
* Bono's tenor range, "soaring" vocals
* U2 usually sounds different than conventional music of the time - 
* Lack of improvisation during concerts, although they do tend to vary the set lists (May be OR, but I definitely noticed this after going to five shows during the Vertigo tour in 2005)
Wikipedia brown 10:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's an excellent idea! Go for it! --Kristbg 13:55, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is indeed excellent idea and I support it. BUT, it must be well sourced with no original research or personal musings. By well sourced, i don't mean flimsy blogs or advertising material, etc, but from respected sources such as Rolling Stones, even academic articles if they exist. if not, material should be removed. oh, also be careful of the language used - don't make the adjectives too colourful. Remember, this is a "boring" but factual and verifiable encyclopedia, not a rock mag. --Merbabu 22:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On second thought I'm not sure if I'll have the time that this section deserves until early January, esp considering the importance of well-respected sources as you mention Merbabu, along with the fact that I don't want to make a half-assed effort. But thanks to you and Kristbg for the support, and I definitely think this section would help transform this article from a "history" article to a more general article (so feel free to start on it without me!). Looking forward to collaborating with both of you on this. Wikipedia brown 06:12, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia brown, in my opinion, it is better that you make your "half-arsed" effort and we can then polish that. Ie, that is what collaboration and hence wikipedia is about, right? Whether that effort is on the talk page or the article itlsef, we need to get the ideas flowing. We are band members, not solo artists, and we need to feed off each other for inspiration. What ideas do you have?--Merbabu 15:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Themes 

message: It's blurry, irrelevant, and doesn't do the band justice. Revert, SVP. William 00:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The other image a 'Fair Use' image was deleted as it was deemed, in accordance with WP:FU, that because the band is still around it is theoretically possible to create 'Free' image (as is the case with the current poor image). The fact that it is in reality virtually impossible (as distinct from theoretically) to get a better 'Free' picture was completely irrelevant in the disucussions for deletion. The suggestion has been to take a photo at the upcoming Grammy awards in which it is understood U2 is attending. No, i have no idea how we are going to source a free image from the Grammys. It's another few years til the next tour, presuably, and extensive searches on Flikr show existing photos to be either poor quality or copyrighted. --Merbabu 00:54, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: PS, you can see the discussion here. .--Merbabu 01:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dreadful Main Image 

message: Finally. I feel vindicated; someone used to refer to it as 'childish'. Kguirnela 02:50, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you are talking about me, and I think I might have used the term Fisher Price. But you are close. Compared to the previous one it does indeed look "childish". Merbabu 17:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I'm sorry, but I can't recall who exactly said what... but if you ask me, 2.02 Billion USD (2005) revenue ain't so bad. (see Fisher-Price) Kguirnela 04:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musical artist Infobox 

message: I'd like to remove the following from the Popmart section. It's discussed in the Popmart article, and I feel that it's too much detail for this article:
"Although the extravagance of the tour was visually and technically impressive, in the early stages, Popmart was occasionally marred with less-than-par performances. The problem stemmed from the band booking their tour before the album was finished. Originally set to be released in November 1996, Pop was not in stores until March 1997. As a result, the band had to spend time recording that had originally been allocated for tour rehearsals."
Any objections? Wikipedia brown 03:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think perhaps it can be removed. As long as the article still clearly states that the album and tour weren't as well received as previous ones, particularly in American audiences.Merbabu 06:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove some info