Talk:Afghan Americans

message: The introduction was recently changed to "Afghan Americans are Americans whose are of Afghan descent, or Afghanistan-born people who emigrated to the United States."  There are several obvious errors in this. Americans as U.S. citizens have long lived in Afghanistan and some were actually born there but that does not make them Afghan Americans. Suppose a U.S. citizen were to give birth to a child in Afghanistan, does the child eventually becomes an Afghan American? The answer is no. Not only Americans but people from Asia (i.e., Afghan Arabs, Chechens, Pakistanis, Iranians, etc) or else where could give birth to children or live in Afghanistan for many years but that does not make them Afghan Americans after coming to the United States. There is also the question of Afghans (Pashtuns). Those who are Pakistani citizens are Pakistani Americans. I believe this or this  is a correct introduction.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 13:56, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I agree that it was clearer for the purposes of this article (although I do have problems with your example of someone from another nation-state - the progeny of a non-Afghani ethnic group/s - being defined as 'Afghan' unless they self-identified as such, considering that the definition proscribes itself as being self-identification by means of census and other stats). I've restored the previous version with a slight change to the wording in order to avoid awkward grammar, plus have used 'descent' in preference to ancestry or heritage. The choice of 'descent' is a matter of trying to keep a parity with multiple other articles on diasporic groups throughout the world. You're welcome to tweak the text if you think it needs further qualification. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:05, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Immigration laws in many of these Asian countries (probably all) are very strange. Even if you're born in these Asian countries, you're still a national or citizen of the country your parents are from. You have to do alot of thinking to make a perfect introduction. If you apply U.S. immigration law, Afghan Americans must be "natives" or "citizens" of Afghanistan.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 02:52, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why it invaluable to have editors who know their way around a particular field, and to tailor each article to fit the facts. There are numerous countries with strange laws surrounding citizenship. For example, a male who was born in Greece can leave the country as a baby and become a citizen of another, but has to 'buy' his way out of 2 years of military duty (essentially 'the draft') or return to Greece and serve the time when he turns 18. Similarly, in the mid-70s, the Soviet Union introduced a law that anyone who was born in the USSR was still a Soviet citizen, despite living elsewhere and having become a citizen of another nation-state... and extended citizenship by proxy to include the progeny of two Soviet citizens, despite those children not having ever been anywhere near the Soviet Union. It's a weird world. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:21, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. I forgot to mention that Afghans born in Pakistan and in Iran (there are millions of these) or in other Asian countries are natives or citizens of Afghanistan. They cannot legally obtain citizenship in these Asian countries. Many of these have settled in the US. They are Afghan Americans despite their U.S. passport or immigration documents indicating "place of birth" as Pakistan, Iran or any other Asian country.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 15:40, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoa. That puts a whole new complexion on what it is to be an 'Afghan' American. I presume this would be a political device as with the other instances I cited above whereby, even if you travel there on holiday to visit relatives, should you be caught up in any situation (not even of your own doing), you would subject to the laws just as a citizen. There are truly dire ramifications at the heart of the matter. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:02, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, these are political issues that we can't change. Just imagine a person born inside Pakistan or Iran, who has lived there for over 35 years. The laws of these countries make it perfectly lawful to deport him to Afghanistan, and this is happening now. If that person eventually settle in America, he will be an Afghan American.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 12:31, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct introduction 

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