Talk:Alice in Chains/Archive 1

message: Its made this page look way better than those standard wiki pages!
-unsigned
uuuh.. am i missing something?? or has it changed since you posted this??124.184.70.211 07:54, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oh Yeah whoever did the logo/picture work rules! (on the right side) 

message: Quoted from article: "Staley met and was joined by guitarist and song-writer Jerry Cantrell in 1987, renaming the band Alice in Chains, and, along with two of Cantrell's friends, bassist Mike Starr and drummer Sean Kinney, they began writing original material and playing local Seattle clubs"  What was the band renamed from?
: Alice 'n Chains. --jh51681 23:33, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
::In actuality, it was Alice 'n Chainz, but no big deal.La Pizza11 22:55, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prior name 

message: AIC fan here (since after they disbanded), but for some reason i never thought to visit this article. thanks to all who made it a well written and informative blast. dug the chronology. SaltyPig 11:58, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  thanks 

message: Comparing the two, its pretty obvious that the better vocals were of Layne Staley anyday
I feel this certain angst (sorry for the cliché) while I hear him sing,its probably the shrillness of his voice and the fact that its not a very often heard vocal pattern that gives hid voice this certain character which sets him apart. Or maybe I am just obsessed with this bands music!
Vijeth 14:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been listening to the band for a long time, and I always liked the combination of the two voices and particularly the great harmonies in a lot of the songs. It really sets Alice apart from the other bands of the same period.12.162.189.80 19:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  You got that right! 

message: ... looked a lot better large. Laszlo Panaflex 19:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Pic 

message: Anyone know anything about Alice in Chains opening the Clash of the Titans tour in 1991? I've heard that was a big boost toward their mainstream success. 72.40.53.121 23:25, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clash of the Titans? 

message: the years on the "classic lineup" are misleading... the band was inactive for much of it due to Layne's health. For me, the "classic" (if there was one) AiC lineup was with Mike Starr on bass, not Mike Inez. With Starr they recorded Facelift, Sap and (most importantly) Dirt. With Inez they recorded only Jar of Flies and the self-titled release.
Dirt was their artistic peak according to most critical sources and, I would guess, is most popular with the diehard fans. Added to that, the Facelift/Sap/Dirt era was their most active touring period (although I guess Inez came in for the Dirt tour). I know I'm just being pedantic, but Alice in Chains were a very special band for me, and I loved them at a time when I was way too serious about music fandom. So it looks like I still take them too seriously.
I think perhaps it would be best just to refer to the different lineups as "original lineup" and "second lineup". Starr was an important part of the Alice legend even if he did fuck things up (and even if Inez was way better). Alice was one of those bands where you could take snapshots -- "classic" snapshots -- from various points of their career. You watch the video for Would? and it's Starr there with the intro and that is their all-time pinnacle. Or if you prefer Man In The Box it's Starr there again. The classic Inez moment was probably the Unplugged set, but man it was sad to see Layne look like that.
--217.158.132.130 03:40, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classic lineup? 

message: Since grunge was such a blanket term for the emerging seattle music scene in the early nineties, it's hard to really place any one particular band under this genre. Alice in Chains were definitely more metal but were classified grunge more because of where they were from and when.
Metal? I considered them to be grunge, but not because of where they were from. I classified them to be grunge because of their fusion of metal/punk/alternative influences. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 15:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Grunge is the label that they were/are put under, that really shouldn't be disputed. It is blatantly evident that the traditional heavy metal influences are very apparent on their debut, as well as other albums. I guess most people that edit this page are somewhat unfamiliar with either their early work or what metal is, to be reverting these edits. I even cited the Encyclopaedia Metallum entry, who are well-known in the metal realm for their strict submission guidelines. A good amount of the so-called "heavy metal" bands on Wikipedia do not show up there. There really isn't much reason for getting rid of metal other than ignorance. --Ryouga 00:27, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not necessarily grunge... 

message: If someone would care to revisist their alice in chains albums, they will note that they are not grunge but metal.  the reason aforementioned for being labeled grunge is widely held to be true, just ask some actual fans. and for that matter, soundgarden is also not grunge and to a lesser extent, neither is pearl jam.  anyone care to comment?    Lue3378 08:46, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Though you definitely have point, I disagree withyou. Grunge is the term used to describe early 90 bands almost exclusively from Seattle that fused metal and punk. Grunge music describes a large amount of bands which do not necessarily sound similar, but do have similar roots and lyrical themes.La Pizza11 18:58, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not Grunge 

message: Is this just a bootleg?  (look at the cover!) and  ("Sponge Records"?) say it is. --jh51681 01:57, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is a bootleg. .  This shouldn't be listed here, or noted as their first release. -- ChrisB 19:02, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Metal-Archives.com says it's really a demo. 64.142.89.105 02:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Metal-archives is wrong.  The demos are AiC demos, but Sweet Alice was not released by the band in any official capacity.  The demos didn't see official release until Music Bank. -- ChrisB 03:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''[[Sweet Alice]]'': bootleg? 

message: Could anyone please provide names by sitting order for the featured band photograph? thanks, Artsfiend 03:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photograph needs names 

message: "which also featured guest artists Ann Wilson of Heart, who joined Staley and Cantrell for the chorus on "Brother"."
I am pretty sure it's not "Brother", but "I Am Inside", am I right?
:She sings on both songs on Sap, but on the Music Bank version of "Brother" her vocals were removed. --jh51681 07:00, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ann Wilson joining at SAP 

message: I'm currently in the process of gathering information on all of Alice in Chains' single releases, as I'm planning to do some big improvements to Wikipedia's coverage of the subject. What I need help with is the following:
The AiC page currently lists both "Hate to Feel" and "Don't Follow" as singles, but I can't find any evidence that Alice in Chains ever released those songs as singles.  If you have any information on them, please let me know, either here or on my talk page.  Otherwise, I'll remove those items from the list when I start my updates. Thanks, Runch 05:02, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AIC Singles 

message: Man rules rules and more rules, I thought Alice In Chains fans were rebels not copyright followers. Theres to many poseurs these days.
: Haha, yup, you're right! Fuck the copyrights! Be a rebel! - ozzmen-
^^Clever. Guys? This page is not controlled by AIC in any capacity, it's controlled by Wikipedia. If it was controlled by AIC we wouldn't need the copyrights now would we? 82.27.205.126 16:20, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Picture Is Gone 

message: Alice in Chains are Heavy Metal also so why is this removed from the info box on the left? Alternative Metal is what they are but there Heavy Metal also. Its not vandalism bitch!
:It gets removed because it's redundant.  By definition, Alternative Metal (which is the genre listed) is a combination of Alternative Rock and Heavy Metal. - Runch 22:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Does Heavy Metal be constantly removed? 

message: via this part: "... Early career (1987–1990) In 1987, Layne Staley met guitarist and song-writer Jerry Cantrell at a party and allowed him to stay at the Music Bank with him. ..."
Was the Music Bank his recording studio or what?  I know there's an album called "Music Bank"... but, that sentence makes it sound like it was a place too.  Would be nice if someone would explain. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cowicide (talk • contribs) 22:20, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The music bank was a rehearsal studio in Ballard Washington. The music bank had 45 rooms, a lot of Seattles finest moved in an out of the Music Bank at one time or another. Layne and Jerry used to work there when the band was still Diamond Lie, checking people in and out, opening doors, etc. It was closed down when Seattle PD busted a huge Marijuana growing operation next door, the largest bust in Seattle history at the time. The owner of the Music Bank was implicated in the bust somehow and it was shut down in the early 90s if I remeber correctly. Poncherello 21:55, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WTF was the Music Bank? 

message: I was going to add a sentence about Eddy Vedder's lament "4/20/02" - a hidden track on the Lost Dogs album, but then I wondered about whether it really fits? It is certainly relevent. aLii 00:12, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's specific to Layne, so it probably belongs in his article.  (It's already mentioned there.)  I don't think it's relevant to Alice in Chains as a band. -- ChrisB 05:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pearl Jam's 4/20/02 track 

message: Look, guys, ffs, will you discuss the Genre here and stop just editing the info box? It's such a pointless edit and its all that happens to the artical, just figure it out here and lets get some proper editing done, I'm not a massive fan but I'll veture the opening of the debate: I prepose Alt-Metal.--Ferdia O'Brien 18:25, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre. 

message: :Image:Alice in Chains (album).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 18:56, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Alice in Chains (album).jpg 

message: :Image:Alice In Chains Logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 18:56, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Alice In Chains Logo.png 

message: I was at a friends house and his mom had an AIC album called heroin does anyone know anything about that? Skeeker 21:03, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've got a copy of Heroin myself. It is a foreign import. Or, at least, my copy is.;)--Bobblehead (rants) 01:18, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heroin 

message: The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. — Moe ε 09:41, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use criteria 

message: I've been hearing radio stations refer to these guys as Alice in Bondage now, perhaps a move with a redirect from this is appropriate? --CharitwoTalk
 17:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I trust you have a reliable source saying the band has officially changed their name. Otherwise a move is premature. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Other than what I've heard on Radio Stations, I don't, sorry. --CharitwoTalk 21:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alice in Bondage 

message: Why is there no category for this band. There was but it was deleted, Why? Skeeker [Talk] 08:05, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category 

message: This article needs a photo of the band. I see the old one was removed because, apparently, only Creative Commons photos are favored now - why not go over to Flickr and see some? I like this, it depicts all of the current members (kind of, Kinney's hiding behind the cymbal). Will the nc-sa license be a problem though? Litis 20:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just because it is on Flickr it does not mean you can use it on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, most images on Flickr can't be used without permission of the author. The licensing on Flickr has to be CC-BY-SA or CC-BY. --Bobblehead (rants) 23:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Copyrighted pictures of bands, if they are still active, cannot be used in article infoboxes even with a fair use rationale. I have sent e-mails to users on flickr to change the license of pictures, and they are nice enough to do so. I have done the same with a nice picture of Alice in Chains, although the bassist is not in the photo. M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Well it's in the infobox atm. M3tal H3ad (talk) 07:22, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A band photograph. 

message: Please leave a note on my talk page when you're done with this stuff. — Dihydrogen Monoxide 23:44, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Passed. — Dihydrogen Monoxide 01:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA nomination on hold 

message: Comments to Alice in Chains
*To be more particular, add the caption in the photo, like where and what concert they’re having.
*Delimit the associated acts with a comma.
*Along with bands such as…
*Alice in Chains is known for their distinct…
*Successive use of although.
**It's only used twice, and in seperate pararaphs.
*Plagued is not the proper word, I think.
**Yeah it is.
*Change by to with, as in, with extended inactivity…
*…after 13 years.
**No it is alright as is.
*Capitalize S in seattle.
*Link cover please…
*Struggling is a bit POV.
**How? They wer struggling, there is no other way to put it.
*Who included drummer…
*Basist to Bassist
*Cantrell's band full time in  I think there is a missing word here. It sounds ambiguous.
*And eventually took the name of Staley's old band, Alice in Chains.  The spelling is different. So, there must be an explanation why they changed it.
*References two and three have space in between; remove it.
*Took notice to noticed (redundancy).
*The police shut down…
*Bust is a slang term; want to replace?
**Are you sure? Replace with what?
***Replaced with "raid"
*Put a dash in Seattle based.
*Add apostrophe in Columbia Records.
*Remove demo in Based on The Treehouse Tapes demo.
*Remove soon.
*First, surprise is mistaken spelled, as in surprise, and secondly, it is POV.
*Any link to metal radio?
**No.
***Metal radio is in the reference that follows - AMG Biography
*With noted producer Dave Jerden. What?
*Why charts? Billboard 200 is only one.
*Remove just.
*Follow up is follow-up.
*Remove also.
**What?
***Remove the term "also".
*Alice in Chains was nominated for its first Grammy Award in 1992 for Best Hard Rock Performance for "Man in the Box", but lost to Van Halen for their 1991 album For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. I was counting; there are three "for" in the entire single sentence.
**and the point is?
***Very unpleasant.
****What is wrong with it, it flows properly.
*****Reworded to remove a "for"
*Following the tour… Do not worry; it will not be misleading since there was only one tour mentioned in the preceding paragraph.
**What are you talking about?
***Do not remention the title of the tour; thats what i mean
*Demos for their next album…
*But and instead. It bothers me…
**Once again, what? Be more specific.
*Remove new. Since they’re recording, we can presume it’s new.
*Italicize Billboard 200. Actually I am doubtful why this is italicized; but seeing how editors formatted it in its article, we can do but follow.
**No chart should be italicized.
***Just Italicize "Billboard".
****Why? I've never had to before.
*Again, charts.
*resulting in an explosion of Seattle based bands, and the term grunge music. What? Explosion?
*Sap was certified gold, and features guest vocals by Ann Wilson from the band Heart, who joined Staley and Cantrell for the choruses of "Brother", "Am I Inside" and "Love Song". Sure to not split this one? Certification and Content are not related stuff.
*Add comma after In 1992.
*Rephrase "made an appearance in" to "appeared on" (redundancy).
*To the film’s soundtrack.
*Who’s video won for Best Video from a Film.
*The song originally appeared on the soundtrack to the film Singles. This needs rephrasing.
**Where? You skip around wat too much.
*addiciton to addiction.
**dido
*has a darker feel.
*"We did a lot of soul searching on this album. There's a lot of intense feelings" Cantrell said, "We deal with our daily demons through music. All of the poison that builds up during the day we cleanse when we play." There’s a missing punctuation.
*Remove the apostrophe in Alice in Chains’ and change it to their.
**In English language, a band is a single entity, there for it shoud be "it's" or "its", not "thier"
***it is a pronoun for non-gender nouns. I am thinking Alie in Chains is an animal. =)
****Maby, but in a entry like this you should use "its" if the band is american.
*Definitely remove "critically acclaimed". That’s very POV; you’re getting pre-emptive. This critically acclaimed is supported in the succeeding lines. Just state their opinions and readers will now.
*Again, Billboard charts.
**Again, where?
***italize it.
*Has been certified quadruple platinum by the RIAA since its release…
*Remove again…
*No other reviews other than Steve Huey’s?
**Why?
***It would be bias. Look, to be fair, you should not stick to one reviewer only. --BritandBeyonce (talk) 12:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Italicize Billboard for it is a magazine. Like Billboard Hot 100. For the "for" issue, its fine.--BritandBeyonce (talk) 00:47, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Oh. Sorry. Just follow the flow of my suggestions and you can find what was misspelled. If it was corrected, just ignore it. SandyGeorgia has been copy-editing lately like the linking of dates and hyphens. --BritandBeyonce (talk) 10:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAC Comments 

message: Why is there a new image up there?
The band is nothing without Layne Stayley.. hell it's his band
Get an old image with him in it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Motoko11 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image... 

message: Since the templates are protected, for music artists, is it possible to add another category for management companies similiar to the one for Labels? 
Ivygirl16 (talk) 17:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding A Management category to the template 

message: Should this really be here? I mean Alice in Chains isn't colloquially referred to as "Alice N' Chainz" in the manner that Led Zeppelin is known as "Led Zep". Alice N' Chainz was essentially a different band. I think this should be removed, but I thought I'd bring it up here first. Frvernchanezzz (talk) 09:23, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No one opposes? Ok, I'll remove it. Please discuss here if you think it should be included. Frvernchanezzz (talk) 19:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Also known as "Alice N' Chainz" 

message: i heard there coming with something new this year (Seth4000 (talk) 17:13, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  4th album 

message: I can't help but find the 14M/3M division of their sales between the U.S. and the rest of the world a bit strange, since most commonly, multi-platinum acts like Alice In Chains have a fairly even split. Look at Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, to name their cousins.Revan ltrl (talk) 12:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It does seem strange, yes. But were they really all that popular outside the U.S? Out of those bands you mentioned, I hear their songs everyday on the radio, but never have I heard Alice in Chains being played. So maybe it's possible that their fanbase was/is mostly American, in the same way Oasis was pretty huge in the U.K, but never really got a strong foothold in America. 121.222.179.94 (talk) 06:41, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sales 

message: should it be mentioned along side the fact that they had 2 number 1 albums that they also had several others in the top 10 (dirt, black gives way to blue, unplugged and other)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.151.53 (talk) 21:34, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albums charting 

message: I changed up the part in the third paragraph about the band's inactivity because it made it seem like that was all Layne's fault, which isn't true according to the other members. Jerry, Mike and Sean all seemed pretty candid about their own substance abuse in the book Grunge is Dead and that the reason for their inactivity was so they could all get healthy, not just Layne. Basically, Jerry said that Layne was the one who paid the ultimate price for what they were all messing around with and that it really wasn't all his fault they had two Number One albums and couldn't do much about them. Shaneymike (talk) 16:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inactivity 

message: I've started an article for Sweet Alice. Hope it meets Wiki standards. I do realize it may not be notable enough for an article but I figured it was worth a shot. Shaneymike (talk) 20:00, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sweet Alice 

message: On the list of music videos, in the discography, the first one is Killing Yourself. But there's no mention to it anywhere else. I can't even find that video on the Alice in Chains official website or youtube. Neither in other web pages. Does that video even exist? I'd appreciate some links that show it or some references. By the way, that video isn't neither on Music Bank: The Videos  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.5.144.81 (talk) 02:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Killing Yourself" music video 

message: can somebody make a wiki page for Lessons Learned?174.61.35.159 (talk) 22:06, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lesson Learned page 

message: I would like to suggest one thing to whoever has been putting the articles together. As a fan of Alice in Chains as long as I can remember make sure you pay the proper respect to Layne Staley. Willam DuVall is NOT a replacement for Layne Staley if you did your research correctly, it was said they would never name anyone a fulltime replacement for Layne Staley, he's not even credited in the new album as lead singer, just vocalist. There will never be anyone who can replace Layne, even the band says so, so make sure you get it right.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.148.146.80 (talk) 05:47, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  DuVall is not a replacement for Staley 

message: I have removed the genre hard rock from the genres beacause due to the fact that both Grunge and heavy metal are sub-genres of hard rock, it make the page a bit redudent. I have also changed the description from hard rock to rock. Rock is more general, therby preferable. Johan Rachmaninov (talk) 02:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, grunge and heavy metal work fine, since those are the main genres that the group is refered to as. And personally, I never found alternative metal to be that useful of a genre discripter anyway. Johan Rachmaninov (talk) 22:29, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Even their official MySpace page states that they are grunge. I think that's reason enough to list it.  Erzsébet Báthory(talk|contr.) 16:30, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I'm not going to remove it. I realize the general concensus is that AIC is grunge, but they really are not. But that is a debate for a different forum. --Endlessdan 16:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Grunge, heavy metal... done. works fine. The Real Libs-speak politely 16:46, 2 September 2008 (\\
I strongly advocate that "Glam rock" or "Glam metal" should be added as the genre of the early years of the band. Anyone familiar with the history of the band and their early cannot dispute that they started as you fairly typical 80s style glam rock/metal band  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.211.18.71 (talk) 17:02, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Using the term "rock" in the article lead-in is never wrong. Grunge is rock, heavy metal is rock... they're all just forms of rock. And any good encyclopedia doesn't subjectively pigeonhole a subject right in the first line of an article. The Real Libs-speak politely 13:30, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Do you have a source calling them "sludge metal"? "This" sounds like "that" is just original research. Sergecross73 msg me  14:35, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

text: That source is more than just weak, it's unacceptable. Messageboard/forum posts are not reliable sources, as they violate WP:SPS. You'd need a far better source to include this genre... Sergecross73 msg me  17:01, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

text: I agree, I've looked into it a little because Metalvayne keeps on pushing that, among some other obscure genre/descriptions, onto band articles, and it is not a widely used term at all. I'm not sure I'd even use it in the body of the article honestly, as it's been weeks and he hasn't been able to find a single RS connecting "sludge metal" and Alice in Chains. (Unless you just meant that last statement as a general point about more obscure terms. Then I'd agree.) Sergecross73 msg me  13:03, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre discussion 

message: Self titled album is entirely sludge metal,more reminiscent of bands like Crowbar & Acid Bath.Even Black Gives Away to Blue is quite sludgy,more metal,less grunge.So,sludge metal definitely needs to be added. Metalvayne (talk) 13:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source calling them "sludge metal"? "This" sounds like "that" is just original research. Sergecross73 msg me  14:35, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

text: That source is more than just weak, it's unacceptable. Messageboard/forum posts are not reliable sources, as they violate WP:SPS. You'd need a far better source to include this genre... Sergecross73 msg me  17:01, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

text: I agree, I've looked into it a little because Metalvayne keeps on pushing that, among some other obscure genre/descriptions, onto band articles, and it is not a widely used term at all. I'm not sure I'd even use it in the body of the article honestly, as it's been weeks and he hasn't been able to find a single RS connecting "sludge metal" and Alice in Chains. (Unless you just meant that last statement as a general point about more obscure terms. Then I'd agree.) Sergecross73 msg me  13:03, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Genre - discussion reopened

message: should it be alternative metal or heavy metal? because jerry's guitar playing is largely inspired by black sabbath's style of guitar playing, who are the blueprint for heavy metal music. [same goes for soundgarden who's playing sounds uncannily similar to sabbath]
also it's been noted in many interviews that alice in chains main inspiration was black sabbath.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.220.148 (talk) 13:45, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main genre? 

message: User:Necrat has asked for administrators to review this page at WP:ANI#Talk:Alice in Chains - Possible intervention needed. It's not clear to me that there is anything for admins to do yet. There is a good discussion at #Proposal for the addition of 'heavy metal' in the lead with 'rock' kept intact. Perhaps an admin could be requested to check the discussion for a consensus and if so, close it and state the result. EdJohnston (talk) 13:48, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article has been proposed for discussion at [[WP:ANI]] 

message: Guys, I suggest that the lead section should be like Melvins.Since AiC's style is so diverse,I think it's better to avoid putting any paticular style in the lead.Thoughts? Bloomgloom talk 07:16, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: According to my standards, you ask questions too deep: what is rock? I once wrote a book on the subject, then a blog, then some reviews of semiology of music. And my ideas on it continue to change. --134.255.169.95 (talk) 08:17, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Do you consider this a reliable source? --134.255.169.95 (talk) 10:26, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, affirmative to alternate solution (not the google book) . ツ The lead we have would almost work with simply subtracting 'rock' from the first sentence. The second and third paragraphs segue nicely into why "neat categorization (is) difficult", as the Melvins article says. The caveat is that Melvins have a veritible vegetable garden of genres in their infobox: (stoner rock???). Therefore, it would be more difficult to keep a gate on ours. I already like the identification of AiC as post-glam metal or glam metal, as you mentioned above and doom metal has been offered up, not incorrectly. Fylbecatulous talk  13:18, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Pediabook, not Google book: published the work on this topic of the editors here. --134.255.169.95 (talk) 14:25, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Fylbecatulous, Nicely said mate.And Mauro sorry to say but didn't get your notion this time, please elaborate further. Bloomgloom talk 14:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Mauro,that google book or pediabook whatever it is seems to be an imitation of an older version of AiC's wikipedia article to me. Bloomgloom talk 14:34, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not a simple imitation of an older version of AiC's wikipedia article, but its accurate transcription with at the end the list of all the wikipedian editors. The publisher is Pediapress: any of you know something about that? ---134.255.169.95 (talk) 16:38, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternative solution

message: We've been over this stuff many, many times on this talk page...look above to the edit-warring initiated by , now topic-banned from this article.  Not every buzzword-of-the-moment gets to be listed in the infobox; keep it simple and concise with actual musical genres (alt, metal, pop, blues, etc...)  Otherwise we'd be awash in PR Team catchy terms like synthcore, electro-pop, darkwave, and so on all across every musical artist article in the project. Tarc (talk) 15:54, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: it has a page on wikipedia, therefore it's a real genre and can be used in band's infoboxes, and if you're going to remove sludge metal for "not being an actual genre" than you might as well remove grunge which itself is/was a buzzword of the moment and not an actual music genre I call the big one bitey (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 16:13, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Tarc, according to your weird speculation about sludge metal it appears that Power metal, Thrash metal, Black metal, Stoner metal, Gothic metal, Viking metal these all are not subgenres but in reality those all have been dubbed by various professional critics in the past and as a result there are wikipedia articles about all of them, same theory applies for sludge metal.And yes, as I call the big one bitey said if you are insisted not to keep sludge then remove grunge as well.It seems I've posted a message on your talk page which has been recently removed by you.No problem I'm stating the same thing here for convenience.As you're insisted to remove all things related to sludge metal then remove it from Down's article, remove from Melvins, remove from Eyehategod, remove from Black Label Society & all other articles of metal/rock bands which are related.And finally you can help by removing the entire sludge metal article from Wikipedia.Good luck.And I don't care who has been topic-banned, all I care is that there are multiple sources calling Alice in Chains sludge metal and sludge rock which meet the verifiability & I'll keep pushing for it's inclusion because that's how Wikipedia works. Bloomgloom talk 16:34, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I would delete "viking metal" (WTF?) and any of those other retarded terms from any article that I came across, but its not my job to police the entire project, I have a select few band articles on the watch list, including this one.  There's nothing really new being discussed here that wasn't covered up at Talk:Alice in Chains#Genre discussion.  Tarc (talk) 16:53, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Agreed. "Rock" encompases every genre currently listed in the infobox, so just leave it as is. Runch (talk) 17:23, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to state that Tarc is showing a hilariously overwhelming control over this article like it's his personal property & his statements like I would delete "viking metal" (WTF?) are ludicrous, I'd place a bet of 1M if he can remove viking metal from all the related bands & the article of the sub-genre itself.Anyway, whoever in favor of the following amendments in this article place your support below. Bloomgloom talk 07:27, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Sludge is not a genre

message: *Support - As there are multiple sources for sludge metal that meet the verifiability I'd propose to include sludge metal in the infobox & as there is enough information in the lead about their style of music in gist e.g. Although widely associated with grunge music, the band's sound incorporates heavy metal and acoustic elements I'd suggest to avoid keeping any certain genre in the opening sente[n]ce in a similar fashion to of Melvins. Bloomgloom talk  07:39, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Not all sources are created equal, even when it comes to ones taken from reliable third-party sources. You wouldn't cite an editorial for factual information. There's a difference between reporting and writing a review. Furthermore, one of those sources cited for sludge metal makes a claim about "“Junkhead” is the quintessential form of music that Alice in Chains perfected and later became known as “sludge rock”" that is very dubious on the fact of it. WesleyDodds (talk) 12:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

text: *Comment - As far as I can make out, Nirvana was used as an example to illustrate his comments (note: he has worked on that article as well as numerous other featured articles), what can be done here and what (in my opinion) would be a suitable solution. You, however, are asking why heavy metal is included in the lead of a different article, not using it as an example but asking for an explanation, which is I don't see the point of because this isn't about Godsmack. HrZ (talk) 14:36, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Comment - Yes, I wanted an explanation from Mauro & he did so.It's a business between him & me, not between me & you.Do you have any more queries? Bloomgloom  talk  16:08, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Comment - I made no queries in the first place, only made a statement that I don't see the relevance of Godsmack in this discussion. "It's a business between him & me, not between me & you" - I didn't ask you to comment, you chose to. HrZ (talk) 09:35, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Allmusic is generally considered reliable where there is text, but list of genres are not generated by identifiable critics, so are not considered reliable.--SabreBD (talk) 08:56, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the answer, Sabrebd. Nice work. --Mauro Lanari (talk) 09:06, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is some ambiguity now with All Music since it is now a commercial site which it was not previously,and commercial sites are not considered reliable if my memory serves me right on that policy or perhaps i am wrong ,so all music may present a problem especially for music articles--Wikiscribe (talk) 16:18, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: By many, too many years I no longer believe in "reliable sources". I am an insider since 27 years, so I know how to judge by myself. It is useless for Wp, but I don't have anymore to worry about the opinions of others. If I make mistakes, I make mistakes alone. --134.255.169.95 (talk) 21:49, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

text: *The comment "In the radio industry, there has never been a term called grunge rock , from what I know, and I've only been closely following the radio industry programming side for 15 years now" makes no sense. Are you saying you've never heard any ever say "grunge" on the radio? And what about all the reliable sources--ranging from music press to mainstream media to peer-reviewed academic source--that I and other editors cited in the Featured Article on Grunge? Grunge exists, and is established as a genre. That cannot be questioned. And it's one AIC has been regularly grouped in. Yeah, I know AIC started out as a straightforward metal band and were considered outsiders from the Sub Pop clique. But they're widely categorized as grunge. (For what it's worth, Nirvana and Pearl Jam never liked being called grunge either). WesleyDodds (talk) 12:07, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: * I think you mis-understood me. I've always heard of Grunge as being a movement of alternative rock. Look at Billboard's chart history. There was never a "grunge chart". Same with Mediabase. I'm not saying it's not a genre, I was saying in radio, they never really classified it as a format. There were never "grunge" formatted radio stations, those stations reported to the alt-rock panels. I agree that it may be considered a genre, I am just inputing what I know about the genre as it officially relates to radio. I hate the "grunge" label myself, and that is a personal opinion. I don't disagree that it is a genre, but I would much prefer to see AiC classified as Alt-Rock versus grunge. This is a good discussion to have, however. NECRATPlates On 05:55, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Radio formats and genres don't necessarily correlate in the first place, so it's really a non-issue. There's no shoegaze or psychedelic format, either, but both are musical genres. Conversely, classic rock and modern rock are formats, not genres. WesleyDodds (talk) 06:07, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

text: *I should make it clear that I was the one who added the quote "No man, we are part of the metal, and we're a lot of other things too. But there's definitely metal, blues, rock 'n' roll maybe a touch of punk" to this article way back when. I found it in a reprint of a Guitar World article in a book collecting pieces from the magazine titled Guitar World Presents Alternative Rock. In the book, the article was placed in the Grunge section. AIC is generally considered both metal AND alt-rock. It's possible for bands to be both--see also Jane's Addiction, Soundgarden, Nine Inch Nails, and more. WesleyDodds (talk) 12:17, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *I don't know anything about any re-printed magazine or whatever, the original interview featuring a detailed discussion with Cantrell about their self-titled album is from the January 1996 edition of the Guitar World magazine entitled Alice in Chains Stairway to Hell and back.Here's the picture of the original issue of the magazine for your convenience.And I've read the interview when I was 7 years old way before the creation of this Alice in Chains article hence even Wikipedia itself. Bloomgloom  talk  14:06, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *I know where the article comes from, because the book I cited it from (and remember, I was the one who added that quote to this very article) lists the original publication date. I don't get what point you're trying to make. WesleyDodds (talk) 00:57, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *It's ok man, you added that quote, fine I appreciate it.You can brag all about.I'm not trying to make any points.Just made clear above that I've read the interview before the existence of Wikipedia.As simple as that.Peace. Bloomgloom  talk  06:20, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

text: The term sludge metal originated from the word sludgy which most critics use to describe really dirty & heavy riffs & down-tempo melodies. The term was massively used by critics & press during Crowbar & Eyehategod's ascension in NOLA scene. And since the downfall of grunge the term has been associated with bands like Melvins, Alice in Chains & Tad. Now, this was a brief history about how the term came to public attention. You were asking about reliable sources labelling Alice in Chains as sludge rock or sludge metal, both are uniform anyway. Here you'll find three third party sources referring to them as sludge metal/sludge rock.Two of them are renowned newspapers & one of them is a WP:ALBUM/REVSITE. I didn't find them all by the way, I included one of the three sources. Other two were included by I call the big one bitey and Mauro. Bloomgloom  talk  07:14, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: For further enlightenment, in a more recent review by Kerrang!, A review of Steve Harris's new solo project called British Lion the term was associated with Alice in Chains again when the reviewer compared the opening song of their debut album entitled This is My God to AiC's heavy guitar sounds. It can be found here. But, it's not quite related to this article. I just used it for detailed representation as it's a very recent work. Bloomgloom  talk  07:24, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you misundertand me. I understand what sludge metal is. You need not "educate" me on it, you/User:Metalvayne have gone on many long winded rants about it. I get it. But we're not writing these articles for me. We're writing it for the general audience. Most people don't know what sludge metal is, and vast majority of sources don't label them as that, so I don't support it's inclusion. There's a number of other editors who opposed as well, so I'm certainly not seeing any consensus for inclusion. Sergecross73 msg me  13:06, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You see, I've already closed the curtains as some good results came out from this discussion like illustrating their musical styles. And as it is their in the musical styles I feel the infobox should be as it is. And there's no need to make changes in the lead. I've thought about it I've came to a point that their metal side is well defined in the second para of the lead. Bloomgloom  talk  14:13, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Support - I really agree with this last formulation of your opinion. Nice work and good luck. Mauro Lanari --134.255.169.95 (talk) 16:23, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Auctoritas non veritas facit legem. --134.255.169.95 (talk) 19:11, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Oppose --- "subsubgenre" type bickering is pointless and bad for the stability of articles. The bottom line is that nobody knows what these distinctions actually mean. "Sludge" metal is not a very informative concept and each person who uses it will interpret it slightly differently. Generally the best thing to do is use the less specific genres to describe a group. Here the lead starts off mentioning rock. It then mentions "grudge" and "heavy metal"... Good enough! If genre twiddlers spent as much time worrying if articles were properly referenced and had good coverage, the encyclopedia would be a golden place by now. Instead this is the music world's equivalent of comic book nerds arguing if Hulk is stronger than Superman, etc. Jason Quinn (talk) 05:29, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I admit, this made me laugh. You do have a point there. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:32, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Inclusion of sludge metal in the infobox & amendment to the lead

message: This isn't about this article per se, but something that involves a number of AiC singles.  Look at Would?#Release and reception, the sentence structure is atrocious; ""Would?" did X". "Would?" did Y"".  "Would?" did Z.""  If any watchers are still lurking about, please take a minute and polish up the prose a bit if you could; this seems to mostly affect the singles articles.  I did Grind (song) a moment ago (before, after), but won't have time for them all anytime soon.  Thanks. Tarc (talk) 01:45, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Release and reception" section of various AiC singles articles need help 

message: Recent interview with Jerry Cantrell where he states that a new album will be in the works for 2016.
http://www.komp.com/episode/alice-in-chains-jerry-cantrell/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.222.205.153 (talk) 17:27, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Album 

message: I see a note in the Discography section stating the following: "Full discography can be found at its own article.  Please do not add "Jar of Flies," "Sap," or any other release that is not a full-length studio album."
I think the EPs are a significant part of AIC's legacy (especially Jar of Flies, which went triple-platinum and reached #1) and should be included on the band's page, not just on the discography sub-page. 
They are already listed in the band's History section; Sap is lumped together with Facelift, but Jar of Flies is given its own entry, which to me suggests its significance. 
I'm far from an expert on Wikipedia guidelines, but I have seen other bands with EPs listed on the Timeline and in the Discography on those bands' main pages.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ese76 (talk • contribs) 20:36, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: All discographies (and most timelines) are meant for studio albums only. The note is there to explain that, because editors keep trying to add non-studio albums, EPs, etc. for no reason. This has got nothing to do with their legacy... we're just going by the rules here. 4TheWynne(talk)(contribs) 20:47, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks- that makes sense. I'm not sure I agree with the rule, but I understand the need for consistency. Ese76 (talk) 21:13, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add EPs to the Timeline and Discography? 

message: {Moving this discussion from my talk page}:
I don't see anything that talks about this specific kind of instance. I think it would be important to note that Layne died while the band was sill active, making it clear that he did not leave the band. Dying in another year (or that same year, but after leaving the group) is another story. But I'd like to discuss this somewhere; do you know where I can? -- Preceding comment left by DannyMusicEditor (talk)‎ 21:11, 23 February 2016‎
:: That is all covered in the body of the article; the list of members is just a summary.  You may discuss that here, or if you'd like a different interpretation of the Daterange policy, you might inquire here: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 00:28, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daterange 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The opening paragraph implies that Jerry Cantrell was not a lead vocalist for the band both by calling Staley the lead vocalists and by saying that William Duvall took over as lead vocalist after his death. The band member timeline at the bottom shows that Cantrell only provided lead vocals after Staley's death. I'm not sure what the light orange color in the pre-reunion line is supposed to signify there. All of that seems incorrect based on my knowledge of the band though. I'm not a huge fan, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't uncommon for Cantrell to sing lead vocals on songs even before Staley's death, was it? He sang the lead part on "Heaven Beside You," which was a big single. If that was the only significant song that Cantrell sang lead on, I'm fine with characterizing Staley as the sole lead vocalists, but I don't think it was. Again, please correct me if I'm mistaken. Either way, the timeline needs to be corrected to get rid of the light orange line that doesn't correspond to the key.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Offensivename (talk • contribs) 18:40, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead Vocals 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified