Talk:Hare Krishna (mantra)/Archive 1

message: Hare Krishna! 
It's great there's a Hare Krishna page as well as an ISKCON page. ISKCON is great, but, you know, not all Hare Krishnas / Bengali Vaisnavas / Bhakti yogis are members of ISKCON. Statistically speaking, most Vaisnavas aren't in ISKCON, and there are zillions who haven't even heard of it. And they also might not be getting online so much either.  A couple of years ago in NSW Australia, there were cries that the words "Hare Krishna" were the intellectual property of ISKCON. I don't think so. If you argue that most people think WIKI "Hare Krishna" should be linked directly to WIKI "ISKCON", I'd like to humbly point out that AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada didn't go much on democracy. 192.43.227.18 13:54, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: I'm one of the editors here. I 'm glad you like the page. Why don't you become an editor? By the way, this is an encyclopedia at heart, most opinions are deleted, only facts.--Jondel 00:03, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Welcome to Wiki

message: I found the following statements doubtful. I believe that they are typical ISKCON, neither accepted by scholars of Hinduism, nor accepted by mainstream Hinduism. Please provide references or attribute them as opinions
*"Hare" is the vocative form of "Hara", which refers to a personified female energy of God, Radha.
*The mantra comes from the Upanishad.
Andries 08:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Doubtful statements, please provide references

message: , rather than just reverting, you could voice your concerns here. So there could be, like, a discussion. Otherwise, I don't know what you are objecting to. This article is patently about the mantra, not about ISCKON in general (although it is of course right to mention it prominently). Thus, the discussion of kalisaṇṭāraṇopaniṣad is certainly in order, as is a neutral description of the text before any specific ISKCON interpretations are brought forward. dab (ᛏ) 17:46, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: we don't have to keep the Christian bits, fine. The parallel is striking, though. No, a "pure devotee's description" is not what we want, see WP:NPOV. What "Sanskrit font"? The Upanishad is associated with the Black Yajurveda, so why not link to it? dab (ᛏ) 21:00, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: reverts

message: 1) Holy Trinity, what has that got to do with the Maha-Mantra? It's a personal opinion, not widely held.
2) I would rather a pure devotee's description of the Maha-Mantra was left here, as in the previous one which is exactly the words of Srila Prabhupada.
3) Using the Sanksrit font makes the page look messy.
4) Why the link to the Black Veda? We already have the full Kali-Santaran in there.
5) Basically I feel the page looked fine before, apart from the section on Scriptural References it was very clear and easy to read, without any strong bias. Why do you keep changing it otherwise?
:we don't have to keep the Christian bits, fine. The parallel is striking, though. No, a "pure devotee's description" is not what we want, see WP:NPOV. What "Sanskrit font"? The Upanishad is associated with the Black Yajurveda, so why not link to it? dab (ᛏ) 21:00, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simply 

message: I would suggest that this reverting back and forth stops. As far as I can see (admittedly I don't know nothing on the subject), Dab's version has its merits, and it should be possible to find a version that is suitable to all. If this blind reverting continues, it'll be considered vandalism. Whether that whole Upanishad section needs to be included, I do not know, but if so, some serious reformatting would be in order at the very least. Lupo 17:00, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: ego battle for me? Dear anon, I have 1000 articles on my watchlist, many of which (unlike this one) I have mostly written myself. This particular instance is just a minor waste of my time. Your version is inaccurate linguistically. You are saying "hare" refers to the "energy of God", while hare is simply the vocative of hara, and Prabhupada claimed hara, which is completely unrelated to hare, means "energy". Also, you are confusing "Sanskrit" and "Devanagari". From all this, it is plain that you do not know much about Sanskrit, so I suggest you either consult a Sanskrit grammar, or take my word for it. dab (ᛏ) 09:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I am no longer anonymous. Any Hare Krishna worth his salt will tell you that 'Hare' in THIS INSTANCE refers to Krishna's Divine energy. It is a very basic thing. Also I am not confusing Sanskrit & Devanagri. Sanskrit is the language, Devanagri is the letter type, and also covers languages such as Gujarati etc... 
*Devanagari
*Sanskrit
--GourangaUK 11:50, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  To the anon editor who blindly keeps reverting 

message: I started this Wiki page because many of us understand that "Hare Krishna" does not belong to the powerful ISKCON sect. In the months since I started the page, the members of ISKCON cult have practically taken over the page and filled the discussion board with their disagreements. I understand their fervent desire to preach, but would they mind kindly sticking to their own ISKCON page please? Vdd
:: Considering ISKCON is a Hare Krishna sect, they have free right to edit a page that directly relates to them. Is there anything in particular that you disagree with? You can't really expect a page to not change when you leave it for 4 months... Dwayne Kirkwood 03:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: not quite. I insisted that the article comes up front with which parts of the article are ISKCON-specific and which aren't. This is the article about the mantra. Since the ISKCON is widely known as "the Hare Krishnas", the article needs a disambiguation reference. If we put any ISKCON-specific material on this article (on which I certainly do not insist, but it seems straightforward to have a "ISKCON" section here, since the movement is connected with the worldwidenotability of the mantra), it needs to be clearly identified as such. dab (ᛏ) 10:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ISKCON takeover? 

message: Hey, I was thinking we should rename "In Music" so that we can include film, like the recently removed "Female Trouble", and other movies like "Bee Season" and "Dawn of the Dead" - but it's pretty late at night so I can't really come up with a better title to include all forms of media... let me know what you think :) Dwayne Kirkwood 09:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's a good idea, do you want to start it? I don't have much experience starting articles from scratch. It would be cool if we could have screenshots and information on accuracy, what ISKCON was involved with, etc. eg. Bee Season - ISKCON was involved, but what was shown isn't 100% accurate as your parents have to sign a form to allow you to stay in a temple these days Dwayne Kirkwood 20:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hare Krishna in popular culture - I've made an inital page with the few references I could think of, and copied the In Music section over. Please add to this if you know more, i'm sure we could mention Boy George's song, Tenacious D's song, etc. Once the page has more content, I suggest we remove In Music from this article and add a link. Dwayne Kirkwood 23:43, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: In Music rename

message: i've heard that hare means "theif"...but a "theif that stole your heart".   has anyone else heard this?
Justforasecond 00:59, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: only if referring to the feminine, harā , apparently a widespread interpretation. The original mantra likely refers to hari "yellow". You have to realize that these are two unrelated words: harā refers to a female entity, "she who captivates etc."; hari refers to a male entity, "he who is yellow/golden/green", also a name of Vishnu and a term for "lion". You cannot have both, it is by coincidence that the vocatives of these words are identical. dab (ᛏ) 07:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: cool, thanks!  Justforasecond 14:51, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  According to Srila Prabhupada 'Hari' refers to Krishna or Vishnu as 'one who takes away' ('thief'). 'Hare' refers to Krishna's internal energy, personified in Srimati Radharani.GourangaUK 07:59, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  theif? 

message: So what is the relationship between this and Hare Krsnas? Is it just a variation on spelling? If so, perhaps we should setup a redirect page.
'Krsna' is simply another way of spelling 'Krishna'. It originates from books which use punctuation marks underneath the r,s and n to show it is pronounced 'ish' without the need of the 'i' or 'h'. No need for a redirect. Regards, GourangaUK 09:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hare Krishna vs Hare Krsnas 

message: The external link for "Srimad-Bhagavatam" led to a site, bhagavata.org, that extensively, knowingly, and persistently bootlegs copyrighted artwork. 
The large paintings displayed throughout the site to illustrate the book are all copyrighted works, for which the rights are owned by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.
I have kept the link but changed the URL to that of a site that provides the full text of the Bhagavatam, without bootlegging. 
Further information is available from the rights and permissions department of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, www.bbt.info.
The relevant Wikipedia policy appears in Wikipedia:Copyrights, in Section 4.3, "Linking to copyrighted works."
O Govinda 18:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replaced link to pirate site 

message: I have removed the external link for "Bhaktivedanta Memorial Library." The link led to a site, www.bvml.org, that knowingly and persistently bootlegs book-length copyrighted works. 
At www.bvml.org/books/, virtually all the links lead to bootlegged versions of copyrighted full-length books.
Further information is available from the rights and permissions department of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, www.bbt.info.
The relevant Wikipedia policy appears in Wikipedia:Copyrights, in Section 4.3, "Linking to copyrighted works."
O Govinda 19:21, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed another link to a pirate site 

message: The most important thing should come first. What is the most important thing about Hare Krishna mantra? That it is for bringing about love of God. Surely, then, it's preferable that such an explanation remains in the first par. Further, the mantra was made popular in the world by Caitanya. That it was made popular in the great West by one particular group is of arguably lesser importance. -Mrs. Moore.
:Dear Mrs Moore, that the Hare Krishna mantra brings about love of God is an opinion that not all may follow. As the aim of Wikipedia is primarily encyclopedic it would thus be out of place to have that as an introductory sentance. That the Hare Krishna mantra became considerably well known around the world in recent decades due to a particular Vaishnava movement (ISKCON) is however a provable fact of 'encyclopedic' significance. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's importance and significance in connection to the popularisation of the Hare Krishna mantra is also mentioned in the article in some detail with corresponding links etc... including the main figurative picture. Best Wishes, ys, GourangaUK 14:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Mrs Moore, I have taken your points into consideration and amended the introduction to include a mention of the purported purpose of the Hare Krishna mantra in a way which I believe is not promoting a certain POV. It also gives reference to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu from the notation. There are people who chant Hare Krishna without any desire to achieve love of God, or for an entirely different reason altogether, it depends on which authority you personally follow. Sincere thanks for your input. Best Wishes, ys, GourangaUK 08:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I have reverted your further amendments. Many people will visit this page looking for "The Hare Krsna's" it makes sense to mention that at the start. The page should not have a totally Gaudiya Vaishnava POV as an introduction wether you or I agree with that line of thinking or not. Regards, GourangaUK 14:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

text: As already stated before, higher up on this page, the inclusion of the reference to ISKCON in the first paragraph was by a Wikipedia admin. It makes sense to have it there. And no I'm not answering personal questions on Wikipedia as they are irrelevant. I've taken some improvements in English from your introduction and added them into the current version, which is just more concise. GourangaUK 12:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The most important thing.