Talk:Christian observance of Passover

message: Please try not to be misleading and use Jewish-only terms in this article, this is not appirated. eg. usage of the Jewish Calander.  ems 15:21, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is appropriate to use Jewish terms when talking about Pesach when participants wear a kittel when holding aloft the afikomen.  This is after all an article about Christians celebrating passover authentically.--DeknMike (talk) 03:17, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Judaism

message: I talked to Robchurch, and I was told to revert the reverting, of my fixing this mistake, as long as it is within the 3RR. If the dearest IP that reverted my fixing, could explain in English to why he claims it should be 'holy day' instead. ems 17:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Though the word 'holiday' is derived from 'Holy Day', it no longer has the same meaning.  'Holiday' has come to mean 'vacation' and has little or nothing to do with being holy — that is, nothing to do with God.  This article deals with a religious HOLY day — that is, a day ordained by God.  If this were an article about some national day of observance, then holiday would be appropriate.  Not so here.  It is an offense to call it holiday.
I very much disagree. In the article on Christmas, a very healthy discussion was had, and decided upon the statement "Christmas (literally, the Mass of Christ) is a traditional holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus..." Here I cite a few comments that ended the discussion and led to the use of the above quote. 
**"What are you talking about? Christmas is a secular HOLIDAY in as much as it is recognized as such by many governments around the world. Perhaps some people see it as holy, but calling something a holiday doesn't imply that it cannot have a  religious aspect. In fact, it may imply just the opposite. The compound term holy day in contrast emphasizes the holiday's religious aspects and thus creates bias." Theshibboleth 06:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I disagree, but do not believe it is important enough to bother with any further. ASmolderingWiki 21:02, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  holy day vs holiday 

message: Added  and  templates because this article has the identical problems of the Feast of Trumpets (Christian holiday) and Day of Atonement (Christian holiday) articles. IZAK 10:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I fully agree there are significant problems with these articles, I wonder if you could be explicit about what you believe the problems to be? TCC (talk) (contribs) 22:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As a side point, I brought an issue above that still has be delt with. ems 13:21, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  has, at any rate, been argued here at great length, so I'm replacing it. TCC (talk) (contribs) 20:17, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with Vit, to put the POV template on the article without even clearly stating what the POV is, is wrong.  So, until there is a clear answer as to what the POV is, I too will remove the template.  ASmolderingWiki 09:52, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|totallydisputed}} & {{tl|not_verified}}  

message: There are a number of problems I think this article presents. Among them are the following:
I'm concerned about the tone of the article related to langauge about the Passover foreshadowing Jesus. To my mind this is, or at least borders on, supersessionism.  Moreover, there are a variety of orthodox, Christian understandings of the atonement--the substitutionary view that the article focuses on is simply one of them!
Many Christian theologians are calling for us to do the deep and hard work of developing a theology of Jesus' Jewishness that doesn't merely turn him into a "raceless" object of revelation and devotion defined by Western, imperialist, Eurocentric religion. 
The Christian celebration/remembrance of a very Christianized Passover, is called Maundy Thursday which in some denominations, like Mennonite Church USA, is observed by ritualizing Jesus' act of washing his followers feet in an act of servanthood and humility which became his response to the legal proceedings against him that ensued.
The bottom line is that for this article to be more accurate, some kind of caveat that many Christians honor the integrity of the Jewish Passover and have developed a Christian interpretation of the events of Jesus' final observance of Passover which we call Maundy Thursday.
:Maundy Thursday commemorates the Last Supper, but it is not the celebration of a Christianized Passover. For most of the world's Christians, that would be Easter. TCC (talk) (contribs) 07:42, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a variety of celebrations.  Only Passover is called Passover.  Maundy Thursday is a remembrance of Jesus' last Passover (last supper).  Easter is celebration of resurrection.  Most followers of Jesus who celebrate Passover, like Messianic Jews honor the Jewish script, with an interpretation that showcases the elements that point to Jesus as promised Messiah.--DeknMike (talk) 03:11, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jesus does not equal Passover 

message: The intro is blatantly POV, and although it has been tagged for a citation for a while now, nothing has been done. I'm therefore retagging this article. TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:35, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replaced totallydisputed 

message: editors of this article may be interested in expanding the article Folar which seems to relate to this topic.  Jon513 12:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  folar 

message: Passover is the First Day of Unleavened Bread!
Passover is an Annual Holyday!
Many think the Passover is NOT the First Day of Unleavened – one of the Annual Holydays listed in Leviticus 23. However, it is SIMPLE to prove that it is. 
Read Exodus 12.18 carefully. It is the KEY verse NOT mentioned by supposed authoritative Bible courses and books. Wonder why? To keep people from seeing that the Carpenter from Nazareth was literally and historically FULFILLING the FIRST Annual Holyday, the Passover, as our "Passover" and the Messiah, and thereby setting a PRECEDENT that EACH Annual Holyday thereafter was going to be fulfilled literally and historically?  Notice Exodus 12.18:
"In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening." 
Notice it says "until" the 21st day "at evening". In the Bible, days begin in the "evening" at sunset (Gen 1.5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31; Lev 22.6-7; Gen 15.12, 17-18). So "until" means until the 21st day begins, at sunset. This means that the 20th day is the LAST (7th) Day of Unleavened Bread, a Holyday. Then, counting backwards 7 days, the FIRST Day of Unleavened Bread (a Holyday) is the 14th day. Of course, we know that the Passover is observed on the 14th day. Perhaps the diagram below will show how obvious it is that the 14th day, Passover, is the First Day of Unleavened Bread, a Holyday. 
21	20	19	18	17	16	15	14
  	7 	6 	5 	4 	3 	2 	1
Other scriptures supporting this are found at Ex 12.6, 12, 14, 17, 19, 31, 41-43, 51; Mk 14.1, 12; Lk 22.1, 7; 1 Cor 5.7-8. And Ex 12.8 and Num 9.11 command that unleavened bread is to be eaten on the 14th day, so it is included in the 7 days of unleavened bread!
There is now NO EXCUSE for believing Passover and the First Day of Unleavened Bread are 2 separate days. And Ex 12.8 and Num 9.11 command that unleavened bread is to be eaten on the 14th day, so it is included in the 7 days of unleavened bread!
Passover, obviously, is the First Day of Unleavened Bread – a Holyday!
Anyone who can count backwards from 7 to 1 can figure this out!
Furthermore, this SIMPLE TRUTH leads next us to a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION.
Since the Messiah’s death as “Our Passover” (1 Cor 5.7-8) sets a PRECEDENT for the LITERAL FULFILLMENT of the Old Testament Holyday archetypes, what LITERAL event in the New Testament is connected with the 2nd Annual Holyday, the “LAST Day of Unleavened Bread”? 
If you follow the sequence of the 7 Annual Holydays as laid out in Leviticus 23, you would expect this 2nd LITERAL EVENT to occur AFTER the Messiah’s death (1st Holyday) and BEFORE Pentecost (3rd Holyday).
Many believe Pentecost was FULFILLED in Acts 2, when the Holy Spirit miraculously descended upon the 12 apostles in Jerusalem on the Feast of Pentecost 50 days after the Messiah’s resurrection.
However, since there is no mention in Scripture of anything big happening between the Messiah’s death and Acts 2, then the 2nd Holyday is YET to be fulfilled, and, consequently, so is Pentecost!
This is tremendously GOOD NEWS which should be proclaimed to the entire world in great POWER!
Why?  Because in the Old Testament, the 2nd Annual Holyday archetype is connected with the miraculous DELIVERANCE of God’s People from their enemies at the Red Sea (Ex 14-15), and with their VICTORY over their enemies at the Battle of Jericho (Joshua 5.10-6.20).
Are we today on the verge of a LITERAL miraculous New Testament event that fulfills the Old Testament archetype of the 2nd Annual Holyday?  Is this event mentioned in the Bible?
If you want to learn HOW, WHEN and WHERE this literal event 2nd Holyday event will occur in the very near future, and HOW this will quickly lead to a literal “nation of priests” that fulfills PENTECOST, the 3rd Annual Holyday, just go to  for more details on this awesome GOOD NEWS!.
In the first century, the religious authorities’s focus on the 4th Annual Holyday (Feast of Trumpets) blinded them to the literal fulfillment of the 1st Annual Holyday - Passover.  Let’s not make the same mistake today, and miss out on the literal fulfillment of the 2nd Annual Holyday!
Not seeing that the Passover is a HOLYDAY is the “blindspot” that is hiding the truth of the LITERALNESS of EACH Annual Holyday.
 
Exodus 12.18 is the KEY to unlock that blindness!
Isayah555 18:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Umm, no. That's what we call  Original research, which is against Wikipedia guidelines .-DMCer 23:15, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SIMPLE proof that Passover and First Day of Unleavened Bread are SAME DAY! 

message: I have consistently asked for citations to be supplied for recent content, especially for citations that are interpretations of these given bible verses. However, my tags keep being removed, and more irrelevant content is being added. This article is about a holiday celebrated by a small minority of Christians called "Passover". However, the vast majority of Christians celebrate Easter instead. Therefore, when we cannot say, due to NPOV, that bible verses are actually describing the Passover holiday, when it contradicts with the majority interpretation. I ask the anonymous editors to please find a contemporary source that uses these bible verses in relation to the Christian holiday "Passover". It is original research to claim that these verses mean something that the majority of Christians do not believe. Please explain the recent edits. Thanks.-Andrew c 04:46, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Difference between easter, communion, and passover 

message: There's been a recent consensus to merge articles about other predominantly Jewish holidays as celebrated by Christians, e.g. Feast of Tabernacles (Christian holiday), into the main articles about the holidays.  The precedent at "Feast of Tabernacles" would support this article being merged as well.  --AFriedman (talk) 00:38, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Support merge. This was on my list of things to do. Passover is a lot more popular among Christians than the other holidays discussed, but it is still Passover that they are celebrating. I assume you want to merge this article into Passover, and I've fixed up the tag to reflect that, and added a tag to the other article. StAnselm (talk) 01:59, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

text: It has nothing to do with the time of year. If you look at the date, you'll see this was proposed two weeks ago, and the deletion discussion from which this arose is from the 16th February. StAnselm (talk) 07:01, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry again, but from my long and hard experience over the past seven years editing Judaic articles, Christian missionary/Evangelical/Hebrew Christian/Jews for Jesus type groups always get hyped up a couple of weeks prior to any of the major Jewish holidays and under the guise of Wikipedia "policies" start to propose merging Christian content into Judaic articles, and this proposal fits that pattern quite clearly. These same groups also like to take advantage of the fact that the most active Judaic editors are away actually observing those Jewish holidays and they try to sneak in changes and proposals that they would not normally get away with during times when the Judaic editors are less preoccupied with their own holidays. This is all part of a rather silly and facile campaign to "merge" two opposite and diametrically opposed religions, i.e. Judaism which is not Christianity and vice versa, by means of these kind of "merges" and "changes" that are nothing less than violations of WP:NOR and WP:NEO. When the logical and rational best solution, and least offensive to all, would be to create articles that clearly separate what are totally different observances by totally different groups of totally different holidays. IZAK (talk) 07:20, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Assume. Good. Faith. Please. StAnselm (talk) 07:24, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am, and I am also stating a huge problem that keeps repeating itself each year. Besides "AGF" (which dodges the main problem here) can you respond to the points I raise. Thanks. IZAK (talk) 07:26, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

text: See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Feast of Tabernacles (Christian holiday). StAnselm (talk) 11:57, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That isn't consensus on a general point; it was deletion of one article, which then became 4 lines in a subsection of Sukkot.  This article here is a lengthy one, and it's not about Christians observing the Jewish holiday of Passover, as the Sukkot one was about Christians observing the Jewish holiday of Sukkot; it's about an entirely different thing, which has been labeled "Passover".  There's no way you're going to stuff all of this into an article about a Jewish holiday.  - Lisa (talk - contribs) 13:24, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

text: I also question why the whole section on Easter is inserted at the end of Passover. If Easter is called "Passover", that fact should be cited in the article on Easter. A treatise on Easter has no connection to the vast body of information related directly to the Jewish Passover. Yoninah (talk) 21:03, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge with Passover

message: I have removed an inline comment from the article that "kiss of peace is not a Jewish custom", but note it here for examination and possible correction. bd2412 T 21:23, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Kiss of peace" 

message: This is a draft.
I hope giving a history of passover became replaced by "pascha", will help us resolve our editorial disputes in an encyclopedic manner - which IMHO should outline both the quartodeciman and the Nicean position, without taking sides on which one is "correct for christians".  WP:MNA: The quartodeciman IS the biblical Jewish passover.  This is a fact.  Another fact is that quartodeciman observers are considered "non-christian" by Niceans.  However, this encyclopedia should not take a position on who is and isn't christian.    Jaredscribe (talk)  31 March 2021
: Since no one has commented on this during the last year, I will use this draft to rewrite the lede.  Although it could be better, maybe more condense and some of the info in the body.  When I showed up last year, this article was an encyclopedic apostasy and a theological crime scene.  Jaredscribe (talk) 02:29, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is my second draft, now as the lede:   Catholic source is Eusebius, Quartodeciman source is Polycrates. I don´t have the references off the top of my head.  If you can research this and give citations please do.  Regards, Jaredscribe (talk) 02:53, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of the Christian Passover and Easter

message: The quality of this article is bad. I see it claimed that only a small minority of Christians observe Passover. I see the list of them. Only problem is it is rubbish. The Eastern Orthodox communion celebrates Pascha, Passover, which is also know as Eastern Orthodox Easter. EO is the 2nd largest branch of Christianity and by no stretch of any informed person's imagination is a small minority. My bet is that 999 out of 1000 people coming to this article are looking for information on the Jewish Holy Day, but never-the-less, clarification (disambiguation) is needed here or a discussion of both 'flavors' of Passover. At the very least, there should be some mention of the various ways (how, when, why) that Jewish Passover 'evolved' into the various Christian holidays.174.130.71.156 (talk) 00:22, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rubbish