Talk:Abu Tor

message: The article states Abu Tor is named after "Sheikh Shehab ed Din el Mukaddasi". The Survey of Western Palestine - Jerusalem volume references the Survey of Western Palestine - List of Names volume, this is where the name is given, but the Names volume gives a further reference:
"Sheikh Ahmed of the bull; also called Abu Tor, the man with the bull. His real name was Sheikh Shehab ed Din el Mukuddasi. See Besant and Palmer's Jerusalem p. 432. He lived in the time of Saladin."
If you actually do see that reference, the name "el Mukuddasi" is nowhere to be found. It reads instead:
Sheikh Shehab-ed-din el Cudsi was also a Khatib, or preacher, in Jerusalem ; he was present with Saladin at the taking of the city, and received the soubriquet of Abu Tor, "The Father of the Bull", because he was in the habit of riding upon one of those animals, and fighting from its back. Saladin bestowed upon him a small village, near the Jaffa gate, in which was the monastery of St. Mark, where he lived and died. Both the monastery and the hill upon which it stands are now called after him, Abu Tor. It is related of him, that when he wanted any provisions he used to write an order and tie it on the neck of his favourite bull, which would go straight to the bazaars and bring back the articles required. 
So, did the authors of the Survey error here, possibly confusing him with Al-Muqaddasi the historian or another figure, or are the names just synonyms? (As they are both tied to Names of Jerusalem; Mukaddasi/Bayt al-Maqdis, el Cudsi/Al Quds) Any thoughts? :)
67.161.254.8 (talk) 15:57, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting question. I am no linguist, but I suspect that  el Cudsi comes from Al Quds....which is another name for Jerusalem. In other words: the names sounds like synonyms to me, too.  Cheers, Huldra (talk) 19:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes it is a good question.  I don't think the authors of the Survey would think that the historian Al-Muqaddasi lived in the time of Saladin though, they were too familiar with the sources for that.  Here is another version from the PEF Quarterly 1877, written by Conder, (p100): "South of Jerusalem is the Deir Abu Tôr, where is the monument of Abu Tor, or Sheikh Ahmed et Tori, 'the father of the bull.' This worthy, whose name was Sheikh Shehāb ed Dîn el Kǔdesy, 'the sacred hero of the faith,' was a follower of Saladin, who in 1187 gave him the monastery of St. Mark, now called Deir Abu Tor. Professor Palmer tells us that he derived his name from riding on a tame bull." Zerotalk 02:14, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Added it to the Biblio, but to me it sounds as if Conder just took that from Besant and Palmer, see p. 432. Huldra (talk) 21:18, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Tawfiq Canaan gave an interesting looking  Mujir al-Din (1456–1522), reference, which I added.  And I just removed the Nisba of Sheikh Shehab ed Din. Mujir al-Din is the earliest writer we have so far referring to the story, Huldra (talk) 22:26, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  el Mukuddasi or el Cudsi? 

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