Talk:List of cocktails/Archive 1

message: A number of these articles, potentially a very large number of them, are nothing but a list of ingredients, which makes them ineligible for a wikipedia article as I understand it.  Is there some reason why I shouldn't copy (for those which aren't there yet) about 100 of these to bartending/cocktails and put Prod tags up on all of them?  --Xyzzyplugh 16:31, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, some of these have already been transwikied to wikibooks, and hopefully many more will be.  I'm unsure what to do with the current non-notable drink articles once they've been transwikied.  I was going to Prod them all, but instead I'm thinking of redirecting them all to this article, and having this article link to their wikibooks article.  This way the information is still there for anyone trying to get to it, and it should discourage recreation of the removed articles.  --Xyzzyplugh 01:17, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tell me why many of these shouldn't be deleted 

message: This article links to many wikibooks cocktail articles which don't actually exist, or which did exist at some point but have been deleted or moved.  I looked around and couldn't find any sign of them.  It looks like, first of all, the format for cocktails was changed at wikibooks.  But knowing this still didn't lead me to the missing cocktails.  This is the new wikibooks cocktail format http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bartending/Cocktails/Dry_Martini  But our article here links to many of them in a format like so: Wikibooks:Bartending:Boiler
If anyone can find them, it would be useful to fix the links.  Eventually, if no one does, I'll just delete all the broken links from this article, or someone else should if I forget about it.  --Xyzzyplugh 16:37, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And I've now unlinked all the broken links, as they are gone completely from wikibooks.  I've left the text in place so the names of the drinks are still there, just not linked. --Xyzzyplugh 14:26, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

text: This was apparently fixed a while ago. There is a full article now, not a redirect. The article could still use some work, but at least it's not looping. --Willscrlt 04:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article is full of broken wikibooks links 

message: well, I may not understand how to create new articles, or how I should list the ingrediants but I felt it needed to be there. 
1/2 oz Black Haus® blackberry schnapps
1/2 oz Blue Curacao liqueur
6 oz Smirnoff® Ice
3/4 oz grenadine syrup
Pour half a bottle of Smirnoff Ice into a pint glass. Then add 3/4 oz. of grenadine along the inside of glass, so it settles at the bottom. In a separate shaker, combine 1/2 oz. Black Haus and 1/2 oz. blue curacao with ice. Shake contents and pour into a 1 oz. shot glass. Drop the shot glass into the pint glass and drink quickly.
I had one of these in Columbus Ohio, its really good. The recipe was found at <http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink1p47o02.html>
Added to 'misc cocktails' - enjoy!! SkierRMH 06:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding the patriot missile 

message: Do layered shots belong on this list - you know, the rather crudely named Quick Fucks, Cocksucking Cowboys and the like?  --Robert Merkel
:By the way, to whomever deleted this, I am not trying to be crude for the sake of it here.  At least in Australia, the above rather lewd names are the only names these drinks have.  Hence, to ask a question about them, I need to refer to them by name.  --Robert Merkel
I see nothing wrong with layered cocktails/shots being included in this list. The primary page for "shots" is Mixed drink shooters and drink shots, but all shots with decent information are being copied into this article for now anyway. Please also read #Non-Cocktails (per definition of a cocktail) for more thoughts. --Willscrlt 05:55, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless someone can provide references, a complete recipe, notability, etc., I'd vote against adding it. --Willscrlt 05:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Things that should and should not be listed here

message: Vodka and milk, anyone else heard of it? If so maybe it should be added. TheEasterBunny 02:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless someone can provide references, a complete recipe, notability, etc., I'd vote against adding it. --Willscrlt 05:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tug

message: Hi. This evening someone removed a link added to the Ext links section on grounds of link spam. I've no problem with this, but when I glanced at the section, it looks like most of the other links there could probably fit into the same category. Should they all be removed? Wikipedia is not an advertising hording. Jamse 22:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikibooks has a good bartending manual with recipes. If an external link is largely nothing more than that, then it probably does not belong in the article. Some of the external links I've left include sophisticated search engines that help you determine the drinks that can be made using the ingredients or drinkware you have on-hand. This is beyond the scope of Wikibooks or Wikipedia, and I feel it makes the site a useful external link. We do not need a lot of links like that, so only the best one or two of the breed need listing. That could get into subjectiveness and favoritism though. --Willscrlt 05:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Link Spam

message: At the top, there should be a shorter list of the most common cocktails—those absolutely every beginning bartender should know how to make.  Martini, bloody mary, white Russian, etc.  I don't know how many drinks are in this category, or how similar the list is in Australia vs. the USA.  My guess is around 25 drinks would be enough.
:I added a top-20 list from the editors of iVillage to the top. It is holiday related, and there is no justification given as to why these make particularly good holiday drinks. I think we should come up with our own list to replace it with after the holidays. Any suggestions? --Willscrlt 05:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion

message: Please check out "other cocktails" subsection...
Drinks that link to another page with the recipe are left without that here.
::Drinks without link to another page with recipe, I double indented, and added the recipe or a brief synopsis 
Comments?  I'd be willing to reformat the rest of the page like this if there's a consensus.  SkierRMH
: Sorry, SkierRMH. I just undid that work for you. :-(  This talk page is was so haphazard that I missed it the first time through. I do like the concept, but the formatting was making the section very long (at least with the monobook skin) due to the extra spacing. I'll explain in the next section. --Willscrlt 10:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Easier to read formatting -  I hope

message: I think we should list all mixed drinks here, including shooters and non-alcoholics, even if they're not technically cocktails. Though I don't feel strongly either way, as long as everything's nicely interlinked. Should we keep on capitalizing everything? Obviously one would capitalize Manhattan, Bloody Mary, etc., but gin and tonic seems odd as Gin and Tonic; or Root Beer Float instead of root beer float. --TheCunctator
:I am cross-posting this discussion to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cocktails. Please post your responses there.
:Originally, I was in agreement with TheCunctator. The more I have been working with this topic, the more I think it should be handled a little differently. I propose creating an article called List of mixed drinks and branch out from there to List of cocktails, List of beer mixes, List of wine mixes, List of non-alcoholic mixed drinks (with a redirect from List of non-alcoholic cocktails (which currently redirect here), List of mixed drink shooters and drink shots (essentially what the Mixed drink shooters and drink shots article is right now), :Category:Drink mixers, and a links to Drinkware and Bar tools. This would also require updating related categories and maybe even the project pages. --Willscrlt 05:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Non-Cocktails (per definition of a [[cocktail]])

message: :Unless you can find some references to a new drink, I'd rather not see it included. In fact, I would like to see references for all the drinks listed (per Wikipedia's guidelines), rather than just list anything for which people happen to know a drink recipe. Doing the first makes us an encycolpedia, and the second makes us a bartending manual (which Wikipedia is not). Obviously many of the currently listed drinks do not meet that criteria. I'm not advocating deleting all of them outright, but working to improve the entire section. Adding new unreferenced material would be counter-productive to that goal, however.  --Willscrlt 05:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding new drinks

message: Shouldn't the Rum and Pepsi drink just be listed as a variant of Rum and Coke?  Did the Pepsi people insist on its having a seperate entry? --unsigned comment
I do not think it is productive listing drinks more than once within the article.
I have been listing additional names as follows:
# Tom O'Hawk or Tomahawk- when there are only minor variations in spelling
# Boilermaker or Jimmy & Guinney - when there are only two alternate names (the name with a full article is listed first, with the alternate simply bolded)
# Carbomb (also known as Irish Carbomb or Belfast Carbomb) - when the drink is "also known as" by multiple names (the name with a full article is listed first, with the alternate names simply bolded)
Variations within ingredients I have handled this way:
* Flaming Dr. Pepper - A cocktail containing beer, Amaretto, and Everclear (151 Proof Rum can be substituted for the Everclear).
* Three Wise Men - equal parts of Scotch, Bourbon, and Tenessee whiskies (traditional style); Tenessee and Bourbon whiskies with tequila (a variation); or Jaegermeister, peppermint schnapps, and cinnamon schnapps (a Christmas variation).
It seems to make things pretty clear without taking up too much space or creating recipe-only articles. --Willscrlt 05:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternate Names

message: I just added one photo per section, and I think it brightens up the page considerably. It also helps show the variation in the styles and presentation of the drinks. It was really difficult to find good images, though. We really need people to snap some pictures of their favorite drinks (or other people's drinks if you don't want to order it yourself) whenever visiting a bar. Don't forget to upload the pictures after you take them! :-)  --Willscrlt 05:05, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Photos

message: Danhm corrected the spelling of Dr Pepper, the soft drink to remove the period after the "Dr". Thanks. I did not know that there was not one in the name. However, he also removed the period from the flaming and non-flaming cocktails of the same name. Since these drinks/articles are not referring to the brand name, and are in fact copycats of the flavor, it would seem proper to use proper English and include the periods in the name of the cocktails. Not having the period results in a redirect to the article name with a period. Throughout the article, a period is used. So, as a matter of style -- at least in this context -- the non-alcoholic soft drink will be referred to as Dr Pepper, and alcoholic cocktails (flaming or otherwise) resembling the flavor of the soft drink will be referred to as Dr. Pepper. Thanks again. --Willscrlt 02:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dr Pepper vs. Dr. Pepper 

message: I revereted a change that added a Black and Tan and one other beer mix. I am not opposed to a good list of beer mixes (something I have recommended at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cocktails), but this article's focus is on true cocktails. By definition, that means that the majority of the alcohol should be composed of [[distilled beverage]s. Admittedly, several of the drinks listed in the beer section of the page do not meet that definition. They should be split into to a more appropriate article, leaving behind only the drinks that are cocktails including a lesser volume of beer than spirits. Adding two more beer mixes would be counter productive toward that goal. Any other thoughts, contrary or otherwise? :-) --Willscrlt 01:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beer Mixes 

message: What's the consensus on Flaming Moe? (and if we allow that, there's a whole load more "previously fictional" drinks on offer from the trekkies ;-) Ojw 01:15, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they should be moved and/or added to List of fictional beverages. This page should be kept for true cocktails and cocktail-like drinks (i.e., beer mixes) that can be ordered readily in most bars. --Willscrlt 04:36, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree that a list of fictional beverages on this page would be good, at least for drinks that can't be made, such as the Pan_Galactic_Gargle_Blaster.  Drinks derived from tv-shows like the Simpsons that have a actual recipe should probably be in both sections.
Ceetar 17:57, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fictional Beverages