Talk:Judenrat

message: His quote, while not controversial or objectionable in the least, is still extremely biased. It condemns, without exception, every last individual involved with the Judenrate, even though it appears two sentences after a mention of council members who worked with the Resistance. Kaplan wrote that from the hell on Earth that was the Warsaw ghetto in 1941. He died in the Holocaust and was probably never aware of the Judenrat members who fought the Nazis. I think it almost goes without saying that he would have somewhat changed his tone had he known how much some of these apparent appeasers really risked. SluggoOne (talk) 02:39, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Chaim Kaplan

message: I removed a statement "given there were so many Jewish Rats this is a surprisingly condensed article." Adds nothing to the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lord Phat (talk • contribs) 04:02, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Edited troll statement

message: Ping User:K.e.coffman so they can explain this removal: . --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:58, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The rationale for the removal was:  it was "undue minority opinion not in line with the preponderance of sources". Further, Arendt's opinion is cited to her book itself, without context and given a prominent placement with its own section and a block quote. Arendt’s views on Jews in the Holocaust have indeed been discussed at length; see for example:  by Richard J. Bernstein, or  by Michael Berenbaum. They were also covered in The Eichmann Trial by Deborah Lipstadt; I’m sure there are many more evaluations. However, a nuanced discussion of Arendt’s views belongs on her page where they can be covered using secondary literature, and not in this article. --K.e.coffman (talk) 01:07, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

text: I agree with Coffman's removal - it was undue here. Arendt's views have merit in the context of her own philosophy, but she was never a Holocaust historian and most historians of the Holocaust only discuss her in relation to her coverage of the Eichmann trial, not as a serious scholar of the Holocaust. Trunk's views are much more mainstream in regards to historians views of the Judenrats. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:24, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is [[Hannah Arendt]] UNDUE? 

message: http://www.hans-dieter-arntz.de/josef_weiss_holocaust.html Unter einem „Judenältesten" oder „Jewish Elder" versteht man eine von den Nationalsozia­listen künstlich geschaffene Position, die mit Hilfe einer geduldeten „jüdischen Selbstver­waltung" - nach angeblich eigenem Ermessen - Befehle auszuführen hatte. 
:There was a Judenälteste in Theresienstadt. https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-letzte-judenaelteste-von-theresienstadt.691.de.html?dram:article_id=247369
:If Judenälteste does not belong here, it should be described separately, but it existed.Xx236 (talk) 10:39, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Judenälteste 

message: While many Jewish participants in the Judenrat have been historically viewed as merely desperate people trying to improve the situation of many facing total genocide, some participants have been seen as traitors or collaborators of the Nazis. For example, one of the Jewish participants the Judenrat, Benjamin Murmelstein was ostracized from the Jewish community and his children were prohibited from even reciting the Kaddish at the time of his death. CessnaMan1989 (talk) 03:31, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:34, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 October 2021 

message: While I removed last para from the lead, I think it might be reasonable to have something in the lead about it and modify something in the body. One of the older wordings say "While some scholars have described the institution of the Judenrats as a collaborationist one". That might be undue in the lead, but  "some scholars" include Hannah Arendt. I think her views about it need to be described on the page even if this is a minority view, rather than be completely removed as in this edit [. This is just a suggestion, and I leave it to other contributors who know better. My very best wishes (talk) 22:45, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: While the amount of space given to Arendt in the previous version was excessive, it should not be removed altogether. She is a major figure, whose writings have shaped subsequent understanding. While the scholarly consensus is that she over-stated the extent to which the Judenrats in general were collaborationist, nobody has denied that there were significant examples of collaboration. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:34, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Encyclopedia Brittanica's short article on the Judenrate concludes with the following paragraph, which seems well judged to me:  BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Collaboration