Talk:Charles Haughey

message: Someone edited it to take out the part about Haughey's family home being burnt. The footnote to that dubious claim refers to the BBC obituary.  In all likelihood, the Wikipedia entry was the source for the BBclass=B, C writer as the claim was made in the free encyclopedia before Haughey died.  It would be extremely naive to assume that the BBC provides nothing but the facts.  I also doubt the claim because the buildings were very primitive and would not have been worth burning. Also, the Haughey's didn't have a home as Haughey's father was raised by his grandmother, who was a Kane, maiden name Heaney. She was a younger sister of my great-grandfather. My great-grandfather was found dead in a ditch around the same time, 1923. He was an American citizen but came back at the end. 
== Correct; furthermore, they didn't move directly to Castlebar from Swatragh. Can you please email me to discuss Haugheys and O'Kanes. Looks like you and I are related...--Angrianan 19:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not commenting on any of the above apart from "Well, that's what happens when you borrow money to buy real estate that jumps in value."  Yes, but it certainly helps it to jump in value when a county council just randomly happens to decide your land will just happen to get public sewerage pipes and water mains put in.  Purely coincidence, of course, that the owner is a powerful politician... Bastun 13:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

text: How was his family treated? --Ryano 09:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I work in Irvine, didn't know they were Irish, where can I find more background info?--Rye1967 23:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: What is this stuff about putting in new pipes at Abbeville?  Among the planning difficulties with developing the area is the fact that it's on the approach path into Dublin Airport, where higher density housing is restricted.  JXM 18:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I guess my question was related to how/whether we should address this whole Abbeville planning issue in the CJH article.  Perhaps it merits a separate article....??   JXM 23:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

text: What they called it is irrelevent. Djegan 14:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family Background  

message: It's incredible that there's nothing here at all about his appearances (and non-appearances) at the various tribunals, and, indeed, his overall corruption.  Details on the 'gifts' he received are very scant - Ben Dunne, etc., the Charvet shirts, et al. Bastun 11:09, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could a separate article be the way forward. The article is currently very long and I am not sure that furture material could easily be integrated? Djegan 20:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tribunals? 

message: Why on earth do media in the UK and USA refer to our Taoiseach's as Prime Ministers? It may be seen as a small thing, I know, but it really annoys me. Why can't they give them their proper mode of address? Fergananim 12:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because Taoiseach is an Irish word and they're speaking/writing in English?  When you're speaking about, say, Angela Merkel, do you call her Chancellor?  Or by her correct title in German: Kanzler? Bastun 12:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

text: So you talk about Dominique de Villepin being the Premier Ministre de la France, then, rather than being the French Prime Minister; or Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri Romano Prodi instead of Italian Prime Minister?  Bastun 13:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The difference is that Taoiseach is now an accepted word in English and used by among others the President of the United States, the Prince of Wales, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and many others. Kanzler and Premier Ministre de la France in contrast have never moved from the native language to English. If taoiseach was only a word used in Irish then the argument would have some validity. But as it is one of those crossover words (like craic, Dáil, Seanad, Éire) that is now used in both Irish and English the argument falls flat. BTW when the office was first created the Irish media all called the office-holder "prime minister". It was only in the 1940s that "taoiseach" caught on, in contrast to "uachtarain" which never did in English and is still ghettoised in Irish. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 22:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The U.S. President, Prince of Wales, et al, will of course use the term 'Taoiseach' because a) it is the correct term; and b) they have protocol people whose job it is to inform them of the correct title.  By contrast, the media will use the term most understandable to their audience.  Correct?  Probably not.  A slur or insult?  Nope.  Certainly not intentionally, anyway. Bastun 09:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes perfect sense to me - the media outside Ireland aren't assuming that their audience know everything. Autarch 17:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The head of the Government, or Prime Minister, shall be called, and is in this Constitution referred to as, the Taoiseach.
Djegan 22:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Quite right, Descriptively he was the "Prime Minister" but should be described as "Taoiseach", I.e. Prime Minister being the Adjective, Taoiseach being the Noun.
Stabilo boss 12:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, it's just general complaints about the media, I think.  Noone is suggesting changing the article. Bastun 09:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Irish mourn colorful ex-PM Haughey"

message: Is that really worth including, and, doesn't that violate NOR? 68.39.174.238 20:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  75 edits in 10 hours 

message: The description of the arms crisis is both superficial and wrong.
* Haughey was not seen as a hawk. He was seen either as in the middle or a dove. (Most people presumed that, given his fierce anti-IRA stance as Minister for Justice.) There was general shock when he was seen associated with Blaney and Boland. 
* The description of who went to trial where is wrong. One of the cases collapsed at a lower court. I haven't the time to do the research but if no-one else does it, when I get a chance I'll correct it. 
Overall, this article is rather weak and superficial. It relies far too much on media reports and not enough on more credible book sources. Knowing Wikipedia, it will evolve in time into a good article, but right now it is littered with superficial judgments and presumptions that are more myth than reality. (Saying that Haughey was seen as a hawk in the 1960s is a serious misunderstanding of reality.) I'd suggest readers look as Ryle Dwyer's books on CJH, and of course on Joyce and Murtagh's The Boss. I'll do what I can to help tweak this article. I've rewritten parts and sourced statements, as well as adding in a booklist. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 00:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed

message: This article will never be taken seriously unless you write it like an article that belongs in an encyclopedia.
All articles must meet notability standards and verifiability standards as well as citing reliable sources.Also, no original research is allowed per WP:OR. Check these policies out as well as WP:CITE and WP:RS meantioned above.  Mattisse(talk) 14:20, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is way too long and contains too much inappropriate detail 

message: Recent edits by a user with the IP address 62.77.178.44 have introduced a lot of POV material into the article, however I'm reluctant to revert them wholesale as they have simultaneously removed a lot of existing POV material! --Ryano 10:16, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent anonymous edits 

message: Can we take off the  and  tags now? The article has gone through a major re-work of late - Alison✍ 21:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * Ok - done! I added a refs tag to just one, heavy section. There may be others. - Alison✍ 21:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup / References 

message: Can anyone find the obituary on the  RTE website
The only copy I can find is the Goggle Cache of it .           
Garda40 23:05, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obituary on RTE website 

message: The FitzGerald quote in the Legacy section, the "Flawed Pedigree" remark is totally out of place. He made that remark on Haughey's ascent to power in 1979. Comments on his legacy should only come from after he left power.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.16.53.217 (talk) 05:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  FitzGerald quote in Legacy paragraph 

message: The link in the article regarding Ahern's graveside remarks,  as of 2008-01-02 are dead. I checked  Ahern's website for his "speeches" http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?ACTIVEGROUP=16&locID=200&docID=-1 
around the date of Haughey's funeral and there is no reference to any graveside oration. 
Is there an, Orwellian style 1984, rewrite here?
194.46.187.63 (talk) 01:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No it was corect the link was out of date, it has been replaced as wel as the information restored.  Cant speak as for why their is no trascript of the speach on the Taoiseach's website, but in the press release from the Taoiseach in regards to the details of State Funeral it list that "...the Taoiseach, Mr Bertie Ahern T.D., will deliver the graveside oration ..."   --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 02:03, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The link to the "graveside oration" yields: "The system cannot find the path specified." Please provide a valid link to the graveside oration. Unless you can do this, the removal of the uncited reference is correct as it is POV. 194.46.187.63 (talk) 02:22, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the new links do work, i cant speak as for why your computer, or not, will not access them, the citation link that is now in the article is http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0616/haughey.html the link above, which is not the one i wanted to use but is working, should be http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?locID=404&docID=2709 , which also works and states that he was to make oration, as it was a press release prior to. Your conspiracy theory is getting old quick. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 19:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Is it not notable that of all the speeches of Ahern, major and minor are reported, but reference to Haughey is but a press release and we must rely on the press to report his comments. I don't know about conspiracy theory, but it is axiomatic that future historians will most likely read Ahern's official listed speeches more often than press releases. 
Previous poster could not access links because they were dead.It is uncivil to accuse another editor of being disingenuous in editing as you imply when you state; "why your computer, or not, will not access them"
I have moved Ahern's oration as reported, to the Legacy section, which is a more natural home for it alongside Fitzgerald's commentary. 194.46.242.86 (talk) 23:09, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ahern's purported Graveside Commentary missing link 

message: Why is there a mention of "President" ? What relevance is it?
It seems disingenuous and irrelevant. Also as the President outranks a Taoiseach, it is offensive to cite the President after Haughey.
Haughey served under more than one President. 
The entire reference should be blanked 194.46.166.39 (talk) 00:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of "President" in infobox 

message: Does anybody know anything about the time Charlie Haughey sailed his yacht into Carlingford Lough and the altercation between himself and the British when he raised the tricolour? It's proving difficult to find anything in a Google search, but I remember the incident, if not its details. It got huge publicity at the time. I surmise it was sometime before an election, and perhaps during the Hunger Strikes? 86.42.119.12 (talk) 03:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Carlingford Lough]]

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thread_title: File:Haughey.JPG Nominated for Deletion

message: The article states that Charles Haughey served 3 terms as Taoiseach. Does the term in office from 1987 - 1992 count as 2 separate terms though? Since the Dáil was dissolved and a new government reconstituted, does this not count as 2?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by WooTangKillerBee (talk • contribs) 11:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terms as Taoiseach 

message: "He started his political career as a local councillor, first failing in a by-election to Dáil Éireann. Haughey's first attempt at election to the Dáil came in June 1951, when he unsuccessfully contested the general election.[14]"
Which is it? Either he made his first try at a by-election or at a general election; it can't be both. Harfarhs (talk) 17:19, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there's been no response, and since neither ElectionsIreland nor his obituaries seem to mention any initial Dáil by-election campaign, I'll revise the passage. That gives the advantage of being able to say something about his time as a councillor. Harfarhs (talk) 19:49, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: see Dublin_North–East_(Dáil_Éireann_constituency), Haughey first contested the 1951 general election unsuccessfully, then the 1954 general election again unsuccessfully, then the 1956 by-election again unsuccessfully; he was finally elected to the Dail at the 1957 general election. Snappy (talk) 19:58, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Exactly :) Harfarhs (talk) 20:01, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  First attempt to become a TD 

message: I think that to obtain consistency with other articles, the lede ought to have links to the ministerial job titles. (I admit that is slightly difficult for Health and Social Welfare/Protection, which are of course now separate posts.) Harfarhs (talk) 21:54, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links in lede 

message: "In 1962 Lemass appointed Haughey as Minister for Agriculture.[21]" The headline says the dispute occurred in 1962, the text in 1966. Moreover the WP page on this Irish political office states that Haughey took up the post in October 1964; which tallies with the other sources I can find. Therefore I am re-writing this section. Harfarhs (talk) 22:11, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minister for Agriculture - but when? 

message: Why is the reference to Haughey smuggling weapons to the IRA in Ulster not couched in terms of terrorism? Surely providing weapons to a terrorist organization is being a terrorist? These days one can be assassinated by drone for far less.101.98.175.68 (talk) 21:49, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrorism 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: I edited the relatives section to add in Monica McWilliams (former NI Assembly MLA) as a first cousin, which you can find on the link below. 
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/appointment-of-human-rights-chief-is-crass-25980712.html
However, this edit was reverted. Just wondering if she should be included in the relatives section or not? Camcool11 (talk) 16:21, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Monica McWilliams