Talk:Russian Mennonites

message: It would be helpful to expand the ethnically Dutch characterization to include a broader perspective of the people making up the Russian Mennonite group. Surnames like Ratzlaff, Sawatzky and even Harder indicate lineages that originated elsewhere in the Mennonite sojourn. An excellent place to start is Peters and Thiessen's Mennonitische Namen, a reference to which will be added to the article.
JonHarder 18:02, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethnicity

message: I just moved a bunch of information from the main Mennonite article, and added the subheaders.  It's now time for cleanup.
I also notice that the article is really short on information about the Mennonites in Russia during the 20th century.  I'll try to dig up as much as I can, because I think the story of their struggles during that time is particularly of interest.  I know that their German heritage made them a target for persecution during WWI and WWII, they were heavily preyed upon by bandits during the revolutionary period, and that Stalin also targeted them for their religious beliefs once he came to power.Sxeptomaniac 17:52, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sections moved from Mennonite article 

message: No one has taken the time to revise the article since my last comment so I will do it now.  
Too much is made of Catherine's role in this migration.  For example, the current edition of this article states, "As a result of their time on the Russian steppes under Catherine the Great, they were familiar with a strain of wheat . . ."  It may be very true that they came to know about this type of wheat in Russia but why mention Catherine in that context?  The Mennonites' first settlement occurred in 1789 and Catherine died in 1796.  That means they only experienced 7 years under her rule.  And I repeat my previous comment that the Mennonites' agreement was made with her son, not with Catherine.
Additional research indicates that the Mennonites did NOT in fact bring the winter wheat with them.  See Kansas State Historical Society comment at http://www.kshs.org/teachers/trunks/pdfs/wheat_00b_background.pdf .  I have therefore modified that entire section as well.
Jerry Frank, Webmaster, http://www.sggee.org 205.206.215.65 21:06, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catherine - again 

message: In my opinion, the article name could provoke misunderstanding. The Mennonites were not "Russian" by ethnical origin. And they lived on territory which belonged to the Russian Empire (present day it is Ukraine), but inhabited by Ukranians. I think the names "Mennonites in Russian Empire" or "Mennonites in Ukraine" suit better.Ans-mo 06:52, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Russian Mennonite" seems to be a generally accepted term, even though for the most part this group of Mennonites is not ethnically Russian. "Mennonites in Russia" is good, but doesn't cover the larger picture of subsequent migrations of this group to other parts of the world. Whether in Paraguay, Brazil or Canada, they are still part of the Russian Mennonite story. ✤ JonHarder talk 18:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  My experience is that it is the name they generally use for themselves. Sxeptomaniac 21:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Correct German name is Russlandmennoniten, so in English translation it could be Russia Mennonites or Mennonites from Russia. I prefer Mennonites of low-saxon origin, because of the common dialect.--Dietrich Tissen 21:13, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The German term Russland-Mennoniten is a clear term, it means "Russia-Mennonites", that is Mennonites with some connection to Russia. The term "Russian Mennonites" is a misnomer, in German it would be "russische Mennoniten", a term for sure most Russland-Mennoniten would clearly reject. To me the term "Russia-Mennonites" sounds odd, but that would be much more adequate. Is there an English term that would express the same as "Russland-Mennoniten" without sounding odd? Any suggestions? --Metron (talk) 17:16, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'd like to suggest to call them Russland-Mennonites. This is very close to the name they use for themselves on the one hand and this name does not implicate a Russian ethnic background, language etc. on the other hand . --Metron (talk) 17:05, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  The adjective "Russian", in this instance, does not imply ethnicity but geography. I would oppose any change because that is the common English name for them, as Jon Harder stated. It's not a misnomer in any way but a failing of the English language. If you would like elaborate on the meaning in the article, feel free to. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:53, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Name of the article

message: Sorry for the liberal revert. The day before I reverted a read a long grammatical treatise on the use of articles in relation to geographical names and was certain that Ukraine was an exception to the rule. I just Googled and came up with this and agree that there should be no definite article before Ukraine. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:26, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ukraine or The Ukraine

message: </blockquote>
During the First (1772) and Second (1793) Partitions of Poland, Royal Prussia was gradually annexed by the Kingdom of Prussia. Its territory largely made up the Province of West Prussia created in 1773.
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was a union of two countries: Kingdom of Poland and Duchy of Lithuania. Commonly known as Poland (or the Crown) and Lithuania. 
Here's an 18th century map of the Commonwealth. Royal Prussia is an intergral part of Poland:
Once again. That's exactly why it was called Royal Prussia, i.e. belonging to the Kingdom of Poland. The other Prussia was called Ducal, because its ruler was only a Duke. Once Prussia had annexed it the name was changed to West Prussia. So let's put it like this: "Royal Prussia" never ever belonged to Prussia. It was the name of Poland's province!
Poland isn't a modern country. It's a resurrected ancient one. Kingdom of Prussia didn't even exist before the 18th century.
And, well, just look at the article we're discussing here. It clearly says that the Mennonites left Royal Prussia because Poland was partitioned.--85.222.86.36 (talk) 23:51, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Partitions 

message: The Religion in the Soviet Union article, under Other Christian Groups, states that the mennonites may have faced persecution under the soviet regime. This article doesn't address that issue. Is there any information available on the subject? I'm trying to improve the Other Christian Groups section for that article, but it just seems hard to improve. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 11:08, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll have to see what I can find. From what I've read, most Russian Mennonites left very early in the Soviet period (my reading has generally followed them), but I recall reading that those who stayed relocated from their villages in what is now Ukraine to modern-day Kazakhstan. I do personally know one man whose family escaped through China during this period, and some of it had to do with some fairly heavy special taxes on those deemed "rich", which some were unable to pay. In addition, the forced central collection of food was inefficient, with much not stored properly, leaving it to rot and not be redistributed, creating shortages.  This wouldn't be sufficient as a source, though, so I'll see if some of my books cover this more.Sχeptomaniacχαιρετε 23:49, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not at all the case. Some may have left but many, including my mother and her family, were left and "liberated" by Nazi troops. That is in quotation marks because many were labelled as collaborators because they could speak German and were under threat of death from the advancing Soviet troops. My understanding is that there were three groups: those who left during the first two waves of Russian revolution (have seen a documentary about this group), those who escaped as refugees with the retreating German army, those who remained. Some of the last group were relocated under Stalin and others were imprisoned for their faith. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:38, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oppression under Soviet Regime 

message: Not likely. Care to reference? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:00, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Textbook definition of WP:UNDUE. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:21, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ukrainian Mennonite? 

message: Was the Vistula delta region where they first settled stateless? A 'terre sans seigneur'? This puzzles me. I s'ppose some crucial information has been suppressed as a sacrifice to Political Correctness 78.49.38.163 (talk) Wojciech Żełaniec  —Preceding undated comment added 07:07, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The stateless Vistula delta region =

message: Seeing as though this is an article on the *English* Wikipedia, shouldn't the 100.000 notation be 100,000 (and so on)? JJhashisreasons (talk) 02:06, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:42, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dot versus comma as thousand grouper 

message: 1. Volin: The second fault of Makhno and of many of his intimates -- both commanders and others -- was their behaviour towards women. Especially when drunk, these men let themselves indulge in shameful and even odious activities, going as far as orgies in which certain women were forced to participate. It goes without saying that these acts of debauchery produced a demoralising effect on those who knew about them, and Makhno's good name suffered from this.
2. THE FATE OF MENNONIT ES IN UKRAINE AND THE CRIMEA DURING SOVIET COLLECTIVIZATION AND THE FAMINE (1930-1933) COLIN PETER NEUFELDT: malaria, cholera. and typhus, Makhno's troops infected the Mennonite women that they raped and the Mennonite families from whorn they demanded food and lodging.
3. An uptodate master thesis: The Makhnos of Memory: Mennonite and Makhnovist Narratives of the Civil War in Ukraine, 1917-1921 by Sean David Patterson. It discusses a lot about the anarchist rapes In hand with reports of murder and torture were the reports of rape. The rape of Mennonite women in particularly is stated as a motivating factor for joining the Selbstschutz. Indeed, Makhnovist raids became synonymous with rape. By 1920 some 100 women and girls were being treated for syphilis in Chortitza alone.66 Apologists for the Makhnovists may suggest that a whole host of armies equally guilty of horrendous atrocities were present at various times in the colonies, but for the women who suffered the attacks there is no doubt as to their rapists’ identity. Furthermore, the accounts given all correspond with the known periods of Makhnovist occupation.67
4. Rempel, David G.; Carlson, Cornelia Rempel (2003). A Mennonite Family in Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union
How, they wondered, could God have permitted the murder of so many innocent people, the rape of defenceless women, and the commission of so many other acts of unconscionable brutality?
5. Playground of Violence: Mennonites and Makhnovites in the Time of War and Revolution Mikhail Akulov The Kazakh-British Technical University, Almaty, Kazakhstan What ensued, however, was the reign of semi-indiscriminate terror. Extensive is the dolorous panoply of the Makhnovite murder scenes: Eichenfeld, where more than 80 colonists were shot, Orlovo with 44 victims, Hochfeld with 19, etc. (Venger, 2011, p. 10). 22 To those executed must be added the uncounted victims of rape theft, physical and moral abuse. Typhus brought into colonies by the infected Makhnovite armies further decimated the villagers, cementing the Mennonite impression of facing the Satan himself and giving rise to the narrative of martyrdom (Patterson, 2013, p. 25).
Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 15:41, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Sexual abuse in Russian civil war