Talk:Pinyon pine

message: The article states: "Once established, the trees may start production as early as 8 years from seed and they will continue production for their lifespan."
-- Production of what ? Nuts ? And isn't 8 years a rather long time for this ?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.56.30 (talk) 01:24, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Production of seeds.  These trees grow slowly and in a less than ideal location the tree can take decades to reach sexual maturity.  --Una Smith (talk) 18:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, a forest of piñon pines produce seeds / cones all together, usually in cycles of four years or seven years. This is called "masting." They do not produce cones every year. Now and then a few confused trees will produce every second year, and some will produce cones every third year; unseasonably cool end-of-summers are thought to trigger masting events, but as far as I know that has not been established by studies. --Desertphile (talk) 00:41, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Production after 8 years ? 

message: Does wikipedia have an article entitled "Jalapenyo (or jalapeño)" too? The proper spelling of the piñon is, incidentally, piñon. 97.123.70.232 (talk) 23:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Spelling "piñon" and "pinyon" are both 100% correct. Various universities in the American Southwest use the "pinyon" spelling in their ecology papers, including University of Colorado and University of New Mexico. --Desertphile (talk) 00:37, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Just because it is in a couple papers does not mean it is correct. I am a physicist and I have read papers with errors in them, especially explosives-related papers from professors of universities. Academic papers are not fool-proof. And as the earlier poster said, you don't see any pages called jalapenyo. These wikipedia articles should be using the most used spelling (piñon) not some bastardized version of spanish (pinyon).192.12.184.6 (talk) 18:46, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Pinyon, REALLY. This article is in English. English has no "ñ" (or accented letters, or umlats, or any other foreign characters for that matter). Although piñon is the original foreign word, it has been incorporated into English and anglicized to "pinyon". BeadleB (talk) 03:16, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pinyon? Really? 

message: The inclusion of Pinyon Jay birds in an article of trees doesn't seem logical to me. Why not just link to a page about Pinyon Jays? --Desertphile (talk) 00:43, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birds? 

message: Entire Pinyon Pine forests in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado are being wiped out by the human-caused increase in regional climates. New Mexico's Climate Division Two has seen a rise in temperature of about 1.2c in the past 50 years, and in some parts of Colorado the increase is almost 2c. Cone seed production has decreased by around 40% in the past 40 years, and huge sections of forests are dead and diseased. Perhaps someone can find the time to write a section in the article on the subject. --Desertphile (talk) 00:49, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Human-caused Climate Change 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
*Support I feel it would benefit the project for reasons stated on the talk page, with "pinyon" included in the first sentence as the alternate spelling, and namespace "Pinyon pine" redirecting back to the main article.Kehkou (talk) 02:02, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: And this is exactly why Wiipedia has very little respect in academia. The vast majority of people and businesses in New Mexico, Colorado, and Arizona use "Pinon". So just because a few people spell it incorrectly as "Pinyon" (which I have NEVER seen spelled this way) that makes it ok? I guess the saying is true..."If enough people believe it, it will eventually become fact". This is despicable. 206.197.198.4 (talk) 18:10, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. As you can see above, I tried to move the page to Piñon, but that failed. Interestingly, no one offered a valid explanation why there is no page on english wiki titled "Jalapenyo".Kehkou (talk) 19:50, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  The U.S. Department of Agriculture, which has under its jurisdiction the United States Forest Service -- and the National Forest system -- spells it "pinyon."  A search on JSTOR, the premier repository for scholarly articles, lists 263 articles for "pinyon."  That's not nobody and that's a lot more than "NEVER."  Smallchief (talk  21:04, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's hard to have any respect for comments like those of 206.197.198.4 and Kehkou above when 7 references listed in the article have "pinyon" in their title, 4 have "piñon" and 1 has "pinon". The Google ngram here is pretty definitive too. Peter coxhead (talk) 21:24, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: And it's hard to take comments like this seriously when there seems to be an absence of people selling "Pinyons", all selling "piñons instead. I agree that WP uses published sources, not real world data. But alas, this conversation has panned out before. I suggest reading the  preceding archived section. To save you some time, consensus was that "pinyon" while sounding like a gear, is a valid English usage.Kehkou (talk) 00:09, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Real world data' includes what is published (in fact, if something is data at all, it almost certainly must have been published). Since this is about the pine, here is I think a more accurate ngram, showing 'pinyon pine' is highest over other names. The ngrams are not chauvinistic one way or the other, just real world data. Hamamelis (talk) 10:55, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Interestingly, in English fiction, 'pinon pine' is highest (see). Hamamelis (talk) 11:25, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

text: Perhaps I didn't word it correctly. 'real world scenario' is more on the money. And why does this keep dragging on? Consensus was reached, people. Not much more can be done short of flooding the article with cites that reference 'piñon' as the spelling.Kehkou (talk) 13:28, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: So if enough documents cite something incorrectly, that makes it ok? Someone above mentioned errors in explosives related papers. I happen to be an explosives engineer and I see that all the time. I have read SEVERAL books and papers that state that a shaped charge melts its liner and creates a molten jet, but this is wrong. I know it is wrong because I have experimentally tested it myself; others have as well. All of these other books and papers who state and cite that incorrectly doesn't make the molten jet theory magically true. Anything being cited in a paper does automatically not make it true, especially if it does not match up with the everyday real world. The original source could be wrong and then other sources build off that, especially if they live in the east and have no way of knowing any better. I challenge you to find one person in AZ, CO, or NM who sells, grows, or picks pinon who spells it as "pinyon". And back to my earlier point, opponents of changing the ridiculous spelling of "Pinyon" to "Pinon" is the epitome of "if enough people believe something that's false, it will eventually become true." This article should be using the most commonly used version of this word.206.197.198.4 (talk) 16:14, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: One last attempt at reasoning: spelling and word usage are not like scientific facts. The usage of a majority of reliable sources (in a given variety of English) establishes the spelling to be used. Peter coxhead (talk) 20:04, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: "majority of reliable sources"? That's not true. No one can know how many sources are out there. I could find just as many sources that spell it as "pinon". And who is to say they are reliable? You? As I said earlier, how are people writing papers in the east, who dont even live near it, or have lived near it for a couple years, going to be more reliable than the people who use pinon to make a livelihood for themselves in the southwest? They only people saying they are reliable sources are each other (because theyre citing each other) and you.2601:0:C00:CF00:ADBE:6EBE:8767:B56 (talk) 22:20, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pinyon?