Talk:Gun Control Act of 1968

message: At the very beginning of this article, there is both a p.c. interpretation of facts, as well as no citation to support the material fact stated. "The 1968 Gun Control Act was supported by America’s old school manufacturers (Colt, S&W, etc.) in an effort to forestall even greater restrictions which were feared in response to recent domestic violence." - To whomever wrote this, your tone is too new-school and you have no citations here. The opinion part of this needs removing.69.108.103.227 (talk) 18:13, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  Have removed uncited claim. Yaf (talk) 01:21, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: "Old School"

message: Firebug: Please do not vandalize wikipages based on your non-NPOV.Mlorrey 01:32, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again, please do not vandalize wikipages based on your POV. You may think the JPFO is a fringe group but their documentation has stood up against independent scrutiny and is accepted history. I will have to report you in an RFC if you keep up this revisionistic vandalism.Mlorrey 20:16, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, please do not accuse me or other users of "vandalism" for making legitimate edits you disagree with. It is considered a personal attack. Secondly, it is utterly inappropriate to include fringe theories such as "Nazi origins" so prominently in the introduction. I will include a small section at the end, if you insist, although frankly I don't think these crackpot allegations from a tiny crackpot group deserve even that level of prominence. But I'm not going to allow you to turn this article into a soapbox. Firebug 02:27, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Allow you"? WTF? Are you the king of wikiland? Who the hell do you think you are? You are so obviously ignorant of the gun rights movement and second amendment issues you shouldn't have any editing authority whatsoever with any issues related to this. You are clearly a vandal here. That you continue to vandalize after I have requested mediation demonstrates clear bad faith on your part and further evidence of your vandalistic motives. It is a true personal attack to destroy the work of others because of your personal political agenda. Mlorrey 03:19, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not going to continue to discuss this issue with you, since you are so clearly unable to distinguish opinion from fact in regards to this issue. I strongly suggest that you edit other articles not related to gun issues instead, and leave gun articles alone. All that you are doing here is creating unnecessary work for myself and other editors who have been reverting your repeated POV insertions. Firebug 05:28, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't deal in opinion. I have been hip deep in the shooting sports since childhood. I know what is fact and fiction, and frankly, you don't know what you are talking about. The only persons here inserting opinion is you and Meelar who are injection your left-wing anti-gun opinions by editing out facts which contradict or bring discredit upon your sides propaganda. I strongly suggest you back off and stop trying to edit reality out of existence. Mlorrey 13:41, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: POV Vandalism

message: Yes, it is legal to make transfers of machine guns imported between 68 and 86. It is even legal to import MGs to this day. However, post-86 guns cant be transferred to civilians, so the importation becomes a moot point. In all cases where "weapon x is legal for transfer, but only legal to import by person Y" you can buy the weapons off Y after he imports them. See U.S. v. Vollmer, 1 F.3d 1511 (7th Cir. 1993) for an illustration of a dealer arranging for national guardsmen to purchase semiauto steyr-augs (banned as "unsporting" by the 89 ban under authority granted by the 68 GCA) and then resell them to him. He was found not guilty, but the guardsmen were convicted of lying during importation. 
The 68 GCA is really the root of all the evil that the ATF has visited upon gun dealers and owners for the past 40 years. Without the FFL system, you could purchase firearms through the mail and the ATF would not be able to  attack a very small number of registered dealers. Remember that the requirements for being an FFL is that the ATF can make warrantless administrative searches (no 4th amendment) and be open during regular business hours so they can be entrapped at any time into a violation. 
The idea is basically to limit the number of people that can legally transact in firearms. In 1968, it was probably about 200 million (adults not including felons). Thanks to ATF harassment and raising of the FFL fees, the number is now down to 50k nationwide. 
Also, without the 68 GCA there would be no sporting purposes bans (89 and 94). 
Beerslurpy 18:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: importation vs transfer and other things

message: The problem is that the FFL thing is very vague and the ATF has long interpreted it BOTH ways. IE, if you apply for an FFL, they will turn you down as saying you dont have enough likely sales volume to justify it. But if you go ahead and start selling off your collection, they arrest you for selling firearms without an FFL. Happened many times since 68.
Many gun owners responded by simply sending in the paperwork and becoming FFLs, even if they werent actually gun dealers. They would call their kitchen or living room the "shop" and keep bound books and all the ATF paperwork. It was an inconvenience but at 10 dollars a year, it was a pretty good deal for someone who would otherwise have to pay for transfers, so there were about a quarter million people were FFLs at any given time. During the Clinton years, a bunch of gun dealers and the anti-gunners got together and decided it would be good (for different reasons) to restrict the FFL system and make it more difficult to become an FFL- so they upped the fee to 200 dollars and required that they actually be a) businesses b) have inspectable public areas and a storefront c) regular business hours d) comply with all state and local laws. And "state and local laws" didnt mean just gun laws, it meant zoning laws and business regulations. If you live in a residential area (as most people do), obviously you cant operate a business. This cut the numbers down (I beleive) about 90 percent as all the non-dealers and the small dealers closed up shop. Thus creating business for the gun dealers and restricting the avenues of gun supply for the average person. 
Since then I dont know what the ATF deal is with buying and selling guns for profit. I heard somewhere that the number is 4 per year, but that isnt legally binding and the FFL might prosecute you for less or decline to prosecute you for far more. Administrative law is different from ordinary civil cases, but in my shallow understanding, you could probably use FOIA requests to get the ATF to separately justify what qualifies someone for FFL licensing and what qualifies someone for prosecution of selling without one. If there is a considerable gap between the two, you sue seeking some sort of remedy (since the crime is selling without an FFL and their rules deny you one), showing proof you fit in that gap. I strongly suspect that this has already been done at some point, but I dont get to take admin law until next year, so I have no idea. Beerslurpy 20:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: About FFL and "selling for profit"

message: In the section "FFL System" I deleted "Illinois" from the sentence "States that do not allow private sales: California, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York."  Illinois does allow private sales, i.e. firearm sales where neither the seller nor the buyer has an FFL.  This is explained on the Illinois State Police web site, in the document Acquiring or Transferring Firearms in Illinois. Mudwater 03:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: FFL System -- Private Sales

message: As respects items #2 and #3 on the list of prohibited persons, it would be helpful to point out that the exemptions for business practices and certain state misdemeanors are contained not in 18 USC sec. 921 et seq., but in the corresponding CFR. It is the definition of "Crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year" in 27 CFR 478.11 that states that "The term shall not include (a) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices or (b) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of 2 years or less." It is confusing to persons who read the text of sec. 922 (g)(1) (which states simply that persons convicted in any court of a crime with 1-year imprisonment are prohibited), who would not know where these exemptions exist. This raises a larger point that the article should state that 27 CFR contains many of the details of how the GCA is implemented, with a link to the applicable rules.--Ana Nim (talk) 15:15, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Prohibited Persons

message: Does each gun bear a unique serial number or just a unique serial number for that specific type of gun/manufacturer? Additionally, are the serial numbers sequential? - Could you tell if a gun is older/newer than another one by comparing serial numbers? Thanks! --24.15.235.157 (talk) 18:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Each "make and model" has its own list of serial numbers, meaning that you could theoretically own, say, Springfield GI 1911 #471175 and Beretta 92 #471175.  Serial numbers are generally sequential, but the law requires only trhat they be unique; at least one manufacturer (North American Arms) offers "vanity" serial numbers.  Many guns can be dated by their serial numbers--it's best to check with the manufacturer or with a community of collectors (the internet makes this pretty easy).  Elmo iscariot (talk) 21:23, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: How are guns serialized?

message: The "sporting purposes" requirement is mentioned in the controversy section, but not in the main article. For as much as I have heard about it, it seems like something that should be discussed. Can it be explained within the article? Jmclark56 (talk) 05:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Sporting Purposes

message: The "Alleged Nazi connections" section is poorly-sourced and inflammatory. We should not be citing Wayne LaPierre's "The Global War on Your Guns: Inside the UN Plan To Destroy the Bill of Rights" as a source of facts. We should also not be basing our coverage of an issue on WP:PRIMARY source quotes from Congressional testimony without any secondary sourcing that explains these quotes. The claim in the first sentence of the paragraph - that "the bill was copied directly from German laws" is not supported by the rest of the paragraph. We're describing a letter to Senator Dodd that refers to Nazi gun laws, but we don't say who wrote the letter or what their purpose was (was it a pro-gun group that wanted to make a point about how terrible gun legislation is?) and we don't bother to state whether the letter had any impact on Dodd or anyone else. Dingell's statement about Nazi gun laws being used to disarm Jews and Tydings' reply do not indicate that the bill's authors made any reference to Nazi gun laws - just that the rhetoric about the bill happened to include this particular argument. There's no secondary source that puts this quote into context. Similarly, the unsourced claim that Tydings put documents into the record "concerning the history of Nazism and gun confiscation" means nothing unless a reliable secondary source explains Tydings' purpose and the impact of these documents. GabrielF (talk) 18:00, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue is not just neutrality, it is that the sourcing itself is unacceptable. This falls within WP:BRD. GabrielF (talk) 19:55, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  it is an uncontested fact that they had the original german document, and during the time they were debating the GCA, asked for a translation, and inserted that translation into the congressional record. The implication and allegation of copying however should be attributed to Knox and the JPFO of course. Gaijin42 (talk) 20:37, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: So? It may also be that they had hot dogs with sauerkraut for lunch. Who knows what else they put in that congressional record? Are you saying that reading a Nazi law makes one a Nazi? Are you saying that reading a Nazi law makes one write Nazi laws? This may be a surprise, but I think any legal scholar will tell you that lawyers read voraciously and sometimes indiscriminately--at least in terms of politics. It is simply good practice to read jurisprudence, and from many different sources, in order to know what has been done and how things should and should not be written. We still don't know what was supposed to be borrowed anyway. The exemption for Nazi party members? No, this is OR bordering on conspiracy theory. Perhaps we should call in the big guns, like . Drmies (talk) 20:42, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

text: I've removed the claim that a translation of the bill was placed in the congressional record. It's completely disingenuous. if you actually read the record it clearly states that Tydings inserted the translation, along with some reports from the Library of Congress to refute the claim that the bill was equivalent to Nazi laws. Here is the exact quote from Tydings that precedes the insertion into the record (page 480) "This is the argument that extremists use. When I hear a Congressman of the United States using this type of argument I find it unacceptable in view of the facts as I know them to be. I will insert at this point in the record appropriate documents concerning the history of Naziism and gun confiscation." GabrielF (talk) 17:16, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing the Alleged Nazi connections section 

message: There is a Split proposal discussion on the Gun politics in the U.S. talk page that may be of interest to editors of this page. Lightbreather (talk) 05:18, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Notice of a discussion on the Gun politics in the U.S. talk page

message: Although certainly the accusation of nazi relationship is notable, in this particular case, the argument may be factually wrong. On the ArbCom page, someone provided a link to the full pdf of the hearings, and dingell does not make an argument that the Jews were disarmed (but he does make a comparison to Nazi registration). Tydings reply is there, but in context it is clear that his inclusion of the Nazi laws was to rebut Dingell's argument. Gaijin42 (talk) 14:29, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Gaijin42. Here is the link (70MB). See page 478 of the text (487 of the PDF file). The text I deleted makes a clear factual error (Dingell does not refer to Jews) and it makes implications about Tydings and Dodd that are unreasonable and unsubstantiated.GabrielF (talk) 18:53, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not following, but if you both agree I'm cool with that.   Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:28, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: TLDR  :The debate happened, but its being significantly mischaracterized by knox and the JPFO, in an objectively factual way. Its not just a disagreement of opinion. They are attributing words to Dingel that he did not say, and presenting some of the other info in an obviously misleading manner. I think it should probably still have the 1 line mention, because the accusation is somewhat notable, but we should not go into the specific details that are known to be wrong. Gaijin42 (talk) 20:50, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nazi Controversy 

message: A fairly significant ruling was handed down per this referencehttp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/11/federal-court-rules-residency-requirements-pistol-/?page=all and it should be included in the article, but it needs to be explained and stated properly and within the context of its circumstances. Twice now there has been the attempt to insert a broad, far reaching statement into the Lead without any addition to the main body of the article which is against WP:LEAD. Anyone want to help craft the paragraph or section explaining what this case applies to? --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 21:46, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Texas Federal Court case 

message: : Regarding this edit -  - you removed information from the article (that has been in the article since at least July 2014, if not earlier) without explaining why. Could you please explain what you deleted, and why? Lightbreather (talk) 19:59, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing was removed that was directly attributed to the sources used. It was edited and paraphrased, but all of the references were kept and applied to the sentence that they directly supported. The only content not retained was the mention of the Malcom X assassination and the University of Texas shooting, neither of which were found in any of the 5 non-subscription based sources. The intermediate legislation efforts were moved in line chronologically with when they happened, in the middle of the efforts for the GCA to be passed. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 20:09, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unaccounted for removal of information 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The gun that killed Kennedy was never forensically proven. No bullets recovered that could be proven without a doubt. A 6.5 mm casing was found on the gurney with JFK, but an a obvious plant. A 6.5 mm Carcano was shown to press and had been mail-ordered, yes, but whether  Oswald's or even used cannot be proven. There were two photos of Oswald ; one with a rifle, one exactly like it but without. The angle of his hand to hold it is incorrect. It isn't clear if same rifle as no serial number, of course, visible. By US Treasuyr: "Firearms shall be identified my serial number". I move word Alleged inserted, or Popularly believed. 174.18.29.200 (talk) 16:49, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  6.5 mm Carcano? 

message: — Assignment last updated by Nharkdivad (talk) 16:24, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Capstone Course in American Politics