Talk:Human rights in the Soviet Union

message: I asked both sides of the revert war to state objections to every removed sentence by both sides. Instead, the talk page deteriorated into personal bickering. The page is protected until boths sides come to senses to discuss every piece in the page version difference. 
I see that this war drags for  a long time. If certain issues were already discussed earlier, please copy the corresponding pieces relevant to the mutually disagreed phrases here, for ease of tracking of conflict resolution. 
Please put each disputed phrase into a separate section. Siction titles like "Massive reverts" or "Main conflicts" are unhelpful in tracking down what was discussed and when. 
Please consider inviting an independent mediator. 
If you want this page unblocked as soon as possible, please avoid any personal references regardless offensiveness. "I told him so" is just as useless for article content as "he is a moron".  - Altenmann >t 17:41, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is good that you decided to do something here, but you should note that Biophys again reverted everything mostly to his old version, saying that he supposedly fixed the earlier disputed statement in the edit summary . -YMB29 (talk) 06:52, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: Here I am setting an example of the structured discussion. Please finish it yourself. - Altenmann >t 18:25, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I agree. -YMB29 (talk) 07:37, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Altenmann, frankly speaking, if you wish to fix this particular segment in the current version, please do it. I agree with your edit in advance because you a good content contributor, and you know the subject.Biophys (talk) 18:34, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said, I don't want to write generalizing articles at all, although I started quite a few of them, to fill the apparent voids.  I consider it waste of my time. I prefer filling knowledge gaps about specific topics. There are still lots of them. - Altenmann >t 19:25, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Please write the correct summary, to be put into the article. - Altenmann >t 18:52, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

text: (YMB29) Within the Soviet Union emphasis was placed on economic and social rights such as access to health care, adequate nutrition, education at all levels, and guaranteed employment. The government of the Soviet Union considered these to be the most important rights, without which political and civil rights were meaningless. 
Why this phrase was deleted? - Altenmann >t 18:25, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Yes I would like to hear Biophys' explanation as to why this keeps on happening. -YMB29 (talk) 07:08, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section "Soviet concept of human rights and legal system" 

message: I suggest to remove "and legal system" from the title. Its presence creates confusion and gives an oppirtunity to go off-topic. The main topic in "concept of human rights" regardless where and how it was defined or implemented, in particular, how it was refliected in the Law. Please notice that cited references must explicitely connect human rights and soviet law, otherwise it will be original synthesis, regardless how evident it seems. - Altenmann >t 18:25, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I agree. -YMB29 (talk) 07:37, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: section title and scope 

message: *(Biophys) However the Soviet conception of human rights was very different from conceptions prevalent in the West. According to Western legal theory, "it is the individual who is the beneficiary of human rights which are to be asserted against the government", whereas Soviet law claimed the source of human rights is the state [ref Lambelet, Doriane [...] The Soviet state was considered as the source of human rights [ref name=shiman...
*(YMB29) The Soviet conception of human rights was different from conceptions prevalent in the West. According to Western legal theory, "it is the individual who is the beneficiary of human rights which are to be asserted against the government", whereas Soviet theory states that society as a whole is the beneficiary. ref name="Lambelet
The immediate issues:
*Both refer to Lambelet, but say it differently. What exctly Lambelet say? - Altenmann >t 18:28, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Altenmann, frankly speaking, if you wish to fix this particular segment in the current version, please do it. I agree with your edit in advance because you a good content contributor, and you know the subject.Biophys (talk) 18:34, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said, I don't want to write generalizing articles at all, although I started quite a few of them, to fill the apparent voids.  I consider it waste of my time. I prefer filling knowledge gaps about specific topics. There are still lots of them. - Altenmann >t 19:25, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Please write the correct summary, to be put into the article. - Altenmann >t 18:52, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparison of Soviet and Western concepts

message: :(YMB29) Within the Soviet Union emphasis was placed on economic and social rights such as access to health care, adequate nutrition, education at all levels, and guaranteed employment. The government of the Soviet Union considered these to be the most important rights, without which political and civil rights were meaningless. 
Why this phrase was deleted? - Altenmann >t 18:25, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I would like to hear Biophys' explanation as to why this keeps on happening. -YMB29 (talk) 07:08, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: phrase about "emphasis"

message: It's suspicious that you forgot to mention all the human rights that weren't violated in the USSR. (Right to education, health, food, house, etc)
Talk about all human rights, not only about the ones wich are useful to criticise the USSR.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.16.166.168 (talk) 14:01, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talk about ALL human rights. 

message: I would question the reference to two views, being "the communist ideology adopted by the Soviet Union and another by its critics".  The Soviet view was the official interpretation/whitewash of a dictatorship, not the view of a majority of the people, or the reality.  It is rather like saying that there are two different interpretations of the Holocaust, one that of the Nazi ideology adopted by Germany and another by its critics". Would people consider that an accurate introduction?Royalcourtier (talk) 07:19, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: As the last (most likely) human poster said, there is a specific oddity to how lacking the article is in an expansion of information concerning the positive human rights are within the article, and I plan to correct this.
--Saum22
: Thanks for bringing this to my attention, as Human rights in the United States is indeed a problematic article, the disproportionate part of which is dedicated to both warranted and completely unfounded criticism, violating WP:UNDUE and WP:PROPORTION. Unlike that article, Human rights in the Soviet Union is quite balanced and describes that state's human rights record in an impartial way using academic sources and not random articles picked up on Google. Pizzigs (talk) 02:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur with the assessment that "Human rights in the Soviet Union" is a quite balanced article. I remove the banner. Lone Internaut (talk) 00:05, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Begining of the addition of new sections on the article 

message: Either, this should be rectified, or the article should recieve a 'non neutral' tag at the top of the page. I've added the non neutral template until this can be discussed. Opok2021 (talk) 17:01, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Be more specific. What "positive human rights" are you talking about? Do you have any sources that talk about these rights? Philomathes2357 (talk) 05:53, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

text: Of course Soviet propaganda always claimed that all human rights are respected in the Soviet Union, but violated in "capitalist countries". But it was a lie. As one historian said, it was "a set of phantom institutions and arrangements [in the USSR] which put a human face on the hideous realities: a model constitution adopted in a worst period of terror and guaranteeing human rights, elections in which there was only one candidate, and in which 99 percent voted; a parliament at which no hand was ever raised in opposition or abstention.". My very best wishes (talk) 02:50, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article has no mentions of the positive human rights in the Soviet Union.  

message: In the beginning of the article, it is claimed that the Soviet Union, [sic] "restricted citizens' rights to own private property". It's undeniable, yes, that the Soviet Union restricted private property- but as a "right"?
Where is the basis for the description of "private property" as a right? The United Nations Universal Declaration on Human Rights states that "Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others"- but it does not speak of private property. Private property is not recognized as a right by the United Nations, which is what I presume this to be based on. Subsequently it should be removed, or replaced with "right to property" as a whole. Kalivyah (talk) 20:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If we agree that USSR restricted private property but want to remove "rights", then the phrase should be modified how? "USSR restricted citizens' what to own private property"? I think it's a bit of a tautology, because "rights" here is understood as legal capability to own property. The discussion on UN DoHR is also misguided in my opinion, because if you "own property alone" it's precisely what "private property" means. Cloud200 (talk) 08:32, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  The USSR restricted private property, but it is not a right. This is about "human rights" in the Soviet Union- and presumably the basis of the article is in the UN DOHR. Private property should not be mentioned. Kalivyah (talk) 19:48, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: No, this is not a legal analysis of UN DOHR implementation in the USSR and it wouldn't make sense as it was only enacted in 1948. It's a much broader overview of human rights in the USSR and your limiting of the scope to point out alleged inconsistencies is unjustified. Cloud200 (talk) 09:48, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

text: We are talking about Right to property here. It was limited to certain types of personal property in the USSR. My very best wishes (talk) 02:54, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Right to private property"