Talk:Slayer/Archive 2

message: Sorry to change the image again. I am doing this because I just hate that picture of Tom Araya's face all covered in blood. That seems like a scary picture to me. Hope you don't mind that I restored the image (I uploaded) back. Let me know if you disagree. Mr. Metal Head 21:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Changing something just because you don't like it isn't very cool. I think that the bloody picture just SCREAMS "Slayer." VelvetKevorkian 07:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Image change

message: I realize there is a History section, but can someone implement a discography section, a la Metallica. SamuraiFez 09:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As suggested under See also Slayer discography 87.123.210.19 09:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Where is the discography?

message: Slayer may have been influenced by those styles at some points in their career, but never to the point that they could be considered a part of those genres.
Well they have had releases of that stuff. Slayer's last three LP's have had strong Nu Metal influences in them and their Punk Hardcore Cover album was well, a punk hardcore album. These genres need to be added to show what there style is altogether. When comparing it to there older stuff it sounds radically different in some ways. It is basically a rehashed version of Reign in Blood. Tom's singing is definatly much poorer in quality, he just yells through most of the songs. And if you pay close enough attention he seems to almost do some sorta rap as well. Although it is a very light touch of that, it is very akin to bands in the Nu Metal genre. The playing is also getting less thrashy and more into a play until someones ears bleeds metalcore fashion. The guitar playing of Kerry King has gone over the years from a sort of chaotic frenzy of playing to now a emphasis on mood. The mood being trying to get the sound to be as demonic and evil sounding as possible, although its debaitable if they even come close to that goal. They only are trying to create the new younger angst crowd of kids interested with that sorta sound. Nu Metal bands are usually aimed at young angry kids that want some sorta pop/metal sound right? Well hasnt slayer just changed its sound around in that direction?
I really have to question if you've actually even listened to the new album Christ Illusion for example. It is nowhere near nu-metal as you assert above. Slayer existed long before nu-metal, and their current output sounds more like their old stuff than anywhere close to nu-metal. Korn and Slipknot are considered nu-metal. Slayer sounds nothing like them. Their punk hardcore album was COVERS, not their material. Please quit adding these nonsense categories....it's obvious no one else agrees with you because it keeps being taken out (and not just by me). Dennypayne 17:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Nu metal, punk rock, hardcore punk"...?

message: Could we consider changing their genre to deathrash?
They have elements of death metal (ie grinding guitars, chaotic solos, and morbid lyrics), but they are also thrash based in that they have roots in early metal and hardcore punk.
:What in the blue HELL is "deathrash?" Slayer is thrash, just like they've always been. VelvetKevorkian 07:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deathrash?

message: The article says that Slayer are often incorrectly said to have formed in 1981, because they were formed in 1982. However, this page is still in the category "1981 establishments". Adamravenscroft 16:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 81/82

message: I added a to-do list to this talk page. Add anything that needs to be done to the list and i will do my best, to find out how to edit it check Wikipedia:To-do list. Also i think once we re-written some parts and added the sources we could go for good article, peer review and then hopefully FA. M3tal H3ad 12:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: To do

message: :This is a quick failing of Slayer based on problems that can be viewed without before reading, there may be additional problems to these. Please review Wikipedia:What is a good article? renominate once these problems are addressed.
* Images lack fair use rationale.
* Too much trivia.
* In-line citations not formatted properly. The <ref> should be inserted directly after the period. Should read like so.[1]

* Lead could be longer.
--SeizureDog 07:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: These issues have not been addressed, though, and should not have been resubmitted to GA so quickly. There are still no fair use rationales for the unfree images, and there is too much trivia. If you want to keep the "information" that is currently in the trivia section then it would be best to create new sections, such as cultural imapct. As it is, it's just a messy assortment of unencycopedic snippets. I'm failing the article, and strongly advise that you wait a while before resubmitting. Also, I suggest that you go through the peer review process before resubmitting.However, it does look like a comprehensive article that could be worthy of GA status.The JPStalk to me 11:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA

message: Slayer originally started out as a cover band, covering Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. This needs to be included I'm not sure where though. Any opinions?
Also the 'big four' is reffered to a lot, heres some links , , , 
M3tal H3ad 02:20, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was now added back to the lead, with a different reference. Michaelas10 (Talk) 10:34, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The big four paragraph seems a bit short. The 4 bands, have a HUGE influence on thrash and basically created it, i think this should be mentioned, I'm not sure how to word it though. If that little bit of information is added, the infobox wont cut into the history which makes it look disorganized M3tal H3ad 05:03, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking something like this: Slayer are often credited as one of the "Big Four" of thrash metal, along with Metallica, Anthrax, and Megadeth.[1] Their music has influenced many thrash and death metal bands[2], Reign in blood is widely considered one of the most influential thrash metal albums ever, alongside Master of puppets.[3] In 2006 Slayer were inducted into the Kerrang! hall of fame.[4] M3tal H3ad 06:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Things to be added

message: Could someone perhaps upload a sample of Seasons on the abyss or South of Heaven preferably Seasons, as the 1990s section is the only part without a sample and it will give the article 'balance'. I'm not familiar with the ogg? format. Thankyou M3tal H3ad 10:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait, south of heaven would be nice as it mentions their style changed and with a sample we can show that. M3tal H3ad 03:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for a song

message: Hi everyone, I began work on expanding the history section, to assist in getting this one elevated. Using bio's from rockdetector.com, allmusic.com, and an interview with Brian Slagel for references, I found quite a bit of info, so hopefully we can get this one to be really comprehensive, and one day FA status.
I will also upload some 30 second samples, hopefully today, if i have time. I think that at least every "single" released (if they even have any? not sure..) should have a sound sample, as well as one or more songs per album. Anyway, I look forward to seeing F*CKIN' SLAYER!!!!1! on the front page one day! \m/ Skeletor2112 12:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work on getting Megadeth A class, but I don't think this article should also be flooded with non-significant samples, which will probably be against criteria 8 in WP:FUC. I think it's enough to have about three examples to demonstrate their music style. Michaelas10 (Talk) 15:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks, and regarding song samples - check out some other music featured articles, like The KLF, Pink Floyd, ect - most have numerous samples (PF has like 20). I think it's good to at least sample all of the hit songs, anything released as a single that has charted.(which for Slayer is probably none...) Also any "songs of note" that are specifically mentioned in the article - such as the article's mention of "Cult", or "Angel of Death", ect. If you only use one sample per decade, you are leaving out a lot of stuff. For example, the article already mentions the big difference in sound from Reign in Blood to South Of Heaven, but both of those albums are from the same decade. Same with Hell Awaits - the article mentions the shift in sound, which is completley different than late 80's Slayer, or from Show no Mercy. At the very least, I think each album should get one sample - maybe two for Seasons, RIB, and the bigger albums. Skeletor2112 05:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm you made a valid point. Maybe two for each section. Raining blood & south of heaven. Seasons of the Abyss & bitter piece(turned down guitars on diablous). Disciple and cult. We don't want to put too many because of fair-use. I suggest waiting to see what Michaelas10 has to say. M3tal H3ad 08:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea, the ones you named sound about right - for sure any Grammy nominated song, because to the general public/non metal fan, the term carries a little weight. I think only Descipe has been nominated, which is plain retarded in the first place(that Seasons or others never saw a nomination!?!!). If you have problems getting stuff into ogg format and cut to 30 seconds, let me know - I can do it pretty easily. Skeletor2112 08:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea disciple was their only Grammy nomination. I have no idea how to get it into ogg format, let alone heard off it. If more samples are added are we going to remove the sample boxes? If you could do the songs it would be appreciated thank you. Also to the guy who posted the you tube link, thats copyright, find the original source of the video and make sure you reference it properly. M3tal H3ad 09:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, just today, Slayer got another Grammy nomination!  "Eyes of the Insane" for Best Metal Performance. The metal gods heard my cries, and responded in kind! \m/ I doubt they will win against the other more popular bands nominated, but it would be awesome to say "Grammy award winning SLAYER". Anyway, I think for sound samples, we should use sample boxes for the biggest 2 or 3 songs, then inline samples for the lesser tracks. This weekend I will cut 30 second samples of: South of Heaven, Seasons, A Bitter Peace, Cult, and Eyes of the Insane. I also want to continue the early years expansion stuff, adding more info on R.I.B., and on. Keep up the good work! Skeletor2112 10:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I've continued the History expansion, up to Reign in Blood. The aditional stuff throws the pics a little out of allignment, but when I add more about Reign in Blood and South of Heaven, the 1980s section should balance out. I do think that some sort of early pic would be nice, either a lineup pic from the early 80's, or an album cover (preferebly Hell Awaits, an aweseome cover, IMO). I also left a 'cite needed' tag after King's quote on being influenced by Mercyful Fate, as I dont have time to find the interview right this second(but I will in the next few days). IIRC, he kinda shit on the album, and said they were too influenced by MF at the time, and that it was his least favorite Slayer album. Anyway I'll find the quote soon, also I wanna add some kind of critical praise for the Hell Awaits part. I didn't cite everyhting I just added, but a lot of it was from the "Spoken history" reference used(an awesome read!) and I will add all cites soon, too. Anyway, songs and stuff should be up this weekend. \m/ Skeletor2112 12:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added more info up to Reign in Blood, but didn't have time to add cites - so they will be up tomorrow - I ran out of time today. Skeletor2112 12:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good luck with this.... I seriously hate the way the inline citations have been added though. Makes it 10 times more difficult to edit the article. LuciferMorgan 22:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: History expansion

message: "Shortly after the release of Haunting the Chapel, Slayer made their live European debut at the Marquee club in London, England, then returned to the US to begin the "Haunting North America" 1984 tour."
Can anyone cite an accurate first-hand source for this London appearance? I've commonly heard they did not play outside of North America until the 1985 Heavy Sounds festival in Belgium, and in fact, the stage banter for that show is worded such that it does indeed seem like that was their first time in Europe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.21.190.132 (talk) 20:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: First live European date?

message: Does anyone know or have the issue of Kerrang that called reign in blood the heaviest album of all time? or the issue of metal hammer that ranked it #1 thrash album. We should use these as sources as editors prefer sources of all types. If you do leave a message here, thanks. M3tal H3ad 03:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kerrang

message: slayers influence is obvious throughout heavy metal esp. extreme metal. 1986s r.i.b was influential to the growing death metal scene along with bands such as death and possessed.their influence on black metal wasnt as large but still notable with black metal giants emperor and mayhem citing slayer as influences. they have also influenced newer bands ranging from post thrashers lamb of god to mallcore bands like slipknot.to this day they inspire headbangers round the world. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.31.199.234 (talk) 07:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: influence on metal

message: I was asked to review the images here.
* Album covers are fine. The song samples seem to be fine.
* It could be argued that :Image:SlayerBand2006.jpg fails WP:FUC #1, as it could be replaced by any photograph of the band. Further, we don't really know that we have the so-called "implict license to republish" this photo. Here and here are Flickr searches on "Slayer" limited to CC-BY and CC-BY-SA licenses. There are some nice shots of band members in the second search that should be uploaded to Commons. If no one here is familiar with that process, let me know and I'll do it.
* :Image:Slayer80.jpg is improperly sourced, and needs to be deleted. It fails WP:FUC #10, as we have no idea who the copyright holder is.
* :Image:23 258.jpg is not fair use in this article. It could be replaced with :Image:JosefMengele1.jpg if we want an image of Mengele to illustrate this article.
* :Image:Slayer eagle.jpg is fine -- but its fair use rationale could be improved. We're not using it because "it is the logo of the subject of the article", we're actually commenting specifically on the design (a much stronger argument).
I hope that this helps. Jkelly 19:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: I think the article could use some kind of classic Slayer lineup pic - spikes, King's bushy hair, makeup, pentagrams and all that stuff. I'll see if I can track somthing down that has a verifiable copyright, but the best source (the band's site) has nothing old, at least that I can find. Any ideas? Skeletor2112 11:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Duh, I just looked over at the Slayer board and there are a shitload of old school ones, I will ask some of those guys if they will donate somthing. Check them out here: Slayer.net photo forums Skeletor2112 11:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New images

message: Reviewed and it is indeed a good article - nice prose, well written, proper info boxes, good images. Compare with Rush (band) for FAC push! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PopUpPirate (talk • contribs) 12:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article

message: ref 55 is coming back with a 404 error on all its links. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ukbn2 (talk • contribs) 00:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 55

message: The introduction mentions acusations of Nazi sympithizing. Shouldn't this be sympathizing?
English is not my first language so I don't feel comfortable making an edit here. Could someone shed some light on this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BlackJackFP (talk • contribs) 18:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My bad, i just removed that part as it kinda drags on, gj spotting it out . M3tal H3ad 02:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: sympithizing

message: Unfortunately I don't have any outside links or other references at the moment, but the statement about Slayer's speed, "up to 75 drum beats per minute", sounds totally wrong to me. I am a musician, and 75 BEATS PER MINUTE is quite a slow tempo. There was a link to a supposed reference to this in the article, but I followed the link and found nothing about this. I don't know what "drum beats per minute" are, but BPM is the way musicians determine the tempo of a song. I didn't want to change or delete this reference in the article without making a mention of it here first. I would say that Slayer songs can be upwards of 200 BPM... Daniel Villalobos 18:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Find a reference for 200bpm(which i did and found nothing). M3tal H3ad 12:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Style

message: user M3tal H3ad keeps deleting reliable sources that cites the band's genre. This is considered vandalism, please read Wikipedia:Reliable sources. --Dexter prog 01:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleting reliable sources = vandalism

message: Not sure if this is important enough to be featured in the main article, but it's worth noting that Slayer was the only band in thrash's "Big 4" that never sold out on their sound. Quite unlike Metallica, who became soft for mainstream acceptance (just listen to Load, Reload and St. Anger). Unlike Megadeth, Slayer never released a crappy album (Risk). Anthrax just started being this rap/nu-metal act around the mid-90's. Slayer's kept it true throughout the years.
Note, I'm not bashing any of the other 3 bands in "Big 4", because they all had strong contributions to heavy metal. It's just a personal opinion of mine, and I'm interested to hear if anyone agrees with me.
URFG
:If an article on a Pokemon can be on the front page, anything can. I haven't listened to much Anthrax and Megadeth but i do agree with Metallica, namely because of their producer. I've seen lots of people call Slayer sell outs and all that crap and it's all just personal opinion. M3tal H3ad 08:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Best "Big 4" Thrash Band = Slayer

message: When was this article featured? Half-Blood Auror 13:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A Question

message: So far, the line-up is as follows:
* Slayer
* Marilyn Manson
Tour dates and other bands have yet to be announced. If you have a verifiable source, then care to ellaborate?
URFG 20:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Summer Tour 2007

message: I don't think its apropriate, or good taste to use the picture of Elyse Pahler in the article. The image looks like a family snap, and I doubt the parents would allow it for "fair use" in an article about a band whose fans murdered their daughter. Instead one should be found of the criminal fans. - Deathrocker 15:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Elyse Pahler

message: I Believe that Nu-Metal should be added as one of the genres to Slayer. I mean, Diabolus In Musica and God Hates Us All were definetly leaning towards it. And i disagree with the speed metal genre, how does Slayer sound anything like other speed metal bands such as Testament or Megadeth?
Uh, have you ever even LISTENED to Reign in Blood? That should answer your "speed metal" question hands-down!
* No reliable source has the albums as nu-metal, Bostaph himself said it was just very experimental for Slayer. Regarding speed metal, the album Show No Mercy was labeled speed metal by All Music Guide and musicians. M3tal H3ad 02:32, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Genre

message: Hasn't this band singles? Armando.Otalk • Ev 02:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Released singles? Yes but none of them are really worth mentioning because they didn't chart. Also more important things to mention over a 25 year career :) M3tal H3ad 02:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Singles

message: I added the South of Heaven cover to follow what seamed to be an uncomplete theme. Show no mercy, Reign in Blood and God Hates us all, has album covers on the history section, but M3tal H3ad deleted it citing "remove cover, adds nothing to the article." Why not remove all album covers? or Add all album covers. I think the article would look a bit more consistent.Alcoholica1 18:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, i guess you're a new user? Wikipedia tries to use as little copyrighted material as possible. All the album covers with pictures are referred to in the text, such as 'was banned for it's graphic artwork' which adds to its fair use rationale. The cover of South of Heaven was not mentioned in the text and the article has quite a lot of copyrighted material atm and it should be kept to a minimum. M3tal H3ad 07:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Album Covers

message: Oh my god I can only say, havent you people even listened ever Slayer? "Uh, have you ever even LISTENED to Reign in Blood? That should answer your "speed metal" question hands-down!"
←- Speed metal, what the hell are you talking about! Slayer has always been, over 20 years of Thrash Metal, leading band and the pioner of the genre!
Actually, yes they were nu-metal albums. For example, the song "Threshold" has some very obvious similarities with Slipknot. ← Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard now in my damn life! Dude, I lauhged my butt off for 3 hours to that comment :D Slayer is nu metal according to the song Threshold is similiar to Slipknot :D C'mon man, You really cant be serious :D You probably have never even heard Slayer so goodly :D No offence but thats the Stupidest thing you can say about Slayer :D
: Your insults are not needed here in the discussion page. Please, if you want to provide a cited reference showing that the particular album(s) in question aren't related to the nu-metal genre, do so and the change to the article will be made. Until then, keep your rude, insulting garbage out of the wikipedia community. Paulintheflesh 03:49, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: omg

message: Currently, this article's nomination for Version 0.7 is being held for further discussion. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 22:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:V0.7|V0.7]] nomination held

message: None of the non-free images or audio samples has a unique fair use rationale explaining the particular purpose of use of the item in this article. – Ilse @ 02:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Non-free media problems