Talk:The Fields of Athenry

message: If the song was written n the 1980s isn't it copyrighted? -R. fiend 04:44, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The music is copyrighted. The lyrics are from a ballad well over a hundred years old. -Mask  20:54, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article clearly states twice that the words and the lyrics were written in the 1980s. If this is incorrect, the article needs to change. If this is correct, the lyrics need to go unless we can contact the copyright holder and get permission. Marnanel 12:46, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I left the relevent links on your talk page. The St. John version is based on an 1800's folk song. -Mask? 18:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright 

message: I removed the mention of Tasmania. The lyrics clearly reference the penal colony in Botany Bay, not Tasmania.
: You are right --V7ndotcom elursrebmem 11:41, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Botany Bay 

message: I have sung this song/heard this song sung many times, so when I saw "ran me down" it surprised me.  Looking on other various sites, the lyrics are usually referred to as "cut me down."  However, I cannot find an extremely reputable source for this reference.  Here are some sites that write it as "cut me down":
The most reputable is DigiTrad, which also includes a MIDI of the song:  here are the lyrics and related information. Other sites also reference "cut me down."
I'd like to see some sources for "ran me down" before changing it back.
Yizzerin 05:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ran/cut me down

message: This article states that the song "was first recorded by Irish ballad singer Paddy Reilly", but Pete St. John's website states "I wrote the Fields of Athenry in the middle 1970's and it was finally recorded and released in 1979 by Danny Doyle and became a top 10 hit and the rest is history!" Mikecron 00:29, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Original recording

message: "The song has been recorded by many Irish artists such as Paddy Reilly, Frank Patterson, Ronan Tynan, Brush Shiels, James Galway, and The Dropkick Murphys."
The Dropkick Murphys are not an Irish band - edited accordingly. Lwdjaymac 07:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular versions 

message: Untill a citation is given, I will remove this statementSuperdude99 11:32, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone removed the reference the the "IRA" version of the lyrics as of July 21, 2008. As a fan of Irish Rebel Music (though not necessarily the IRA), I think it is of interest, and certainly relevant to anyone who wants to know why this song may be considered "sectarian". I put it back in, and added a citation to a YouTube video showing a live performance with the audience chanting. LunaCity (talk) 18:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Pick up a version of The Dubliners 40th anniversary Live DVD, where they sing in Dublin. You can clearly hear the audience chant "Sinn Fein" and "IRA" during the chorus.(Paddy Reilly doesn't really seem to mind)83.109.90.218 (talk) 21:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: IRA

message: Do you think it's accurate to say it's "about the Famine"?  Although it's the timeframe, I would think it's more of a reflection of Transportation to Australia than anything else.
--Mike Searson 01:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The lyrics say that "Michael" is being transported because he "stole Trevelyan's corn" that his "son might see the morn".  So yes, it's about transportation, but he's being transported for a crime he committed because of the famine, so it's accurate to say the song is about the famine. Fumblebruschi (talk) 21:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Famine

message: Under Sporting anthem, it reads...
The Fields of Anfield Road is sung by Liverpool supporters to the same tune, but with suitably adapted lyrics referencing their history and stadium.
User:Pat Pending, can you please state clearly so as to avoid any misunderstanding, exactly *what part* of this statement you are challenging. Thankyou. ~ smb 22:38, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Challenged material 

message: Isn't this a reference to attacks on food convoys and grain ships during the famine years? (83.13.39.98 (talk) 19:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Trevalyn's corn

message: Isn't this the song that Dan White, the Moscone/Milk assassin, listened to? Should this be included and if so, where? 24.3.14.157 (talk) 09:44, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dan White

message: The title of The Glasgow Herald piece is required. Has anyone access to LexisNexis? — eon, 00:19, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This article appeared in The Herald - the newspaper changed its title in 1992. Hippo43 (talk) 07:24, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We still need the title and author of the piece, as per WP:V. — eon, 19:26, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation 

message: Can anyone provide page numbers for this source?  Kenny, Colum. Moments that Changed Us, Gill & Macmillan, 2005 Hippo43 (talk) 19:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have a page number, but an advanced Google Books search will verify the source.  — eon, 21:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation (2) 

message: "Sheridan in row over song on Big Brother".
--Mais oui! (talk) 15:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tommy Sheridan 

message: I suggest that 'The Fields of Ballnafeigh' deserves it's own page. Any takers? RicoRichmond (talk) 17:55, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: no 89.101.226.42 (talk) 21:17, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Fields of Ballynafeigh  

message: (Not sure if I should bring this up as it does conflict with my personal views but in order to help wikipedia...) There is also an extra republican lyric I've noticed is sometimes sung during the 2nd verse after the Crown line (which I won't mention the republican addition by name) that you can hear for yourselves here. Does anyone think that this should be included? The C of E.           God Save The Queen! (talk) 17:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "Fuck the crown" should definitely be included if it can be reliably sourced. Does anyone know any reliable sources that include "Fuck the crown", if the reliable source is to do with Celtic fans singing "Fuck the crown" that would be even better. If "Fuck the crown" can be reliably sourced, I assume you would have no objection to the inclusion of "Fuck the crown" The C of E? O Fenian (talk) 20:50, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wouldn't have brought it up if I didn't feel it wouldn't help Wikipedia. Of Course as you well know, I don't like it as it really does go against my views but if it is included I will not take responsibility for it but I have included a source in my first paragraph but there is another here (Again I don't approve but if it helps Wikipedia...). On another note there is the Loyalist song Fathers Advice that is set to this tune (like Fields of Anfield Road) which I think would make a good inclusion (which themselves also have added lyrics that cause offense to some like the above one. the line is "F*** Bobby Sands, He's Dead") here for the lyrics and here for the additional line. The C of E.           God Save The Queen! (talk) 08:00, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the current version of the Republican chorus section. While I know it is true, it was not reliably sourced to begin with. O Fenian (talk) 15:44, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  And I have put them back in, with a new source (no 13). The section is now more than adequately sourced.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.166.160.136 (talk) 16:59, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Considering the one new (primary) source did not even source the sentence you added it to, it is not "adequately sourced". If this alternate version is worthy of inclusion, it should have been dealt with by reliable secondary sources. O Fenian (talk) 17:31, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: These are the lyrics from Gary Og:
Low lie the Fields of Athenry
Where once we watched the small free birds fly
(ooh baby let the free birds fly)
Our love was on the wing
(Sinn Féin)
We had dreams and songs to sing
(The I.R.A.)
It's so lonely 'round the Fields of Athenry
These are the lyrics in this article:
Low lie the fields of Athenry
Where once we watched the small free birds fly
[Hey baby let the free birds fly!]
Our love was on the wing
[Sinn Féin!]
We had dreams and songs to sing
[I.R.A.!]
It's so lonely 'round the fields of Athenry
The wording is pretty much EXACTLY the same, with the exception for ""Hey baby" instead of "ooh baby", which can easily be edited. So there is no discrepancy between the source and the text in the article.
The section we are discussing claims that this is frequently sung by the audience when REBEL bands are performing the song - Gary Og is a fairly prominent rebel artist, so the lyrics on his site is reliable enough to back up the claim that this is done in performances by REBEL bands.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.166.160.136 (talk) 14:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources provided are not close to adequate.  YouTube links and pages that reproduce possibly copyrighted lyrics are not reliable sources.  And lyrics should not be reproduced, in toto, on the article page. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 15:04, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

text: The reference was added to the sentence "When performed by rebel bands, a republican version of the chorus is frequently sung, with the audience chanting back at the performer". It does not source that sentence. Triskelle is no use as a source, even ignoring that they should not be linked to due to their infringement of copyright by the mass re-posting of lyrics. According to this page "Furthermore we emphasise that this website is a hobby. Of course we do our utmost to provide correct information to the visitors of our website, but we are no scientists. Hence, we do not guarantee the correctness of the information provided". It is not a reliable source. I repeat my comment that if the republican chorus is so important to include it will have been covered in reliable secondary sources, not primary sources such as an artist's website or Youtube videos. O Fenian (talk) 18:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20060108/ai_n15989436/ <- The Sunday herald http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-9460103/Celtic-stars-caught-up-in.html <- Goliath http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=354350&cc=5739 <- Soccernet http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/33626/Celtic-players-IRA-blast.html <- The Sun http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2007/11/21/celtic-disown-rebel-fans-chief-in-ira-row-86908-20137880/ The Daily Record "Campbell insisted he wasn't referring to songs such as the Fields Of Athenry - about the 1840s Irish famine - but instead to people "actually chanting in support of the IRA"."
...and plenty more secondary sources, including the BBC, are available to confirm this incident. So the claim that there exists a republican version that includes pro-IRA-chants is obviously well-documented. If the songs appearance in films is deemed significant enough to be included in the article, then this incident DEFINITELY is significant enough. You just let me know which one of these sources you prefer, and I'll update.
Also: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Celtic+stars+deny+IRA+chant%3B+SINGING+HOOPS+PLAYERS+CAUGHT+IN...-a0140602914
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-140602914.html "Both players join in a rendition of the Fields Of Athenry. The song, a favourite of the Glasgow club's fans, is punctuated by shouts of "IRA" and …"
  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.166.160.136 (talk) 18:02, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree that the text beginning "When performed by rebel bands..." should not be included, not only for the reasons given above, but simply because this is trivia. There are probably hundreds (thousands?) of songs whose lyrics have been modified or added to for all kinds of reasons, and it would be ridiculous to include this information in an encyclopedia. Hohenloh  +   04:32, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article already has information regarding a Liverpool version, a reggea version, a punk version, and a special version by the Dropkick Murphys (sourced only by their own website, so there is obviously not a problem with an artist website as a source!) so this isn't the only version mentioned by the article. More importantly, the republican version is significantly more controversial than the others, and singing the republican chants is a punishable offence in some areas. Obviously, this is significant enough to merit the inclusion.
Can I just say the following to whoever is objecting to the inclusion of the *fact* that audiences sometimes chant "IRA" back when bands play of Fields of Athenrye: your objection is not only unfounded as shown by the articles above, but it is suppressing important and useful information. My band recently performed this song in a very normal Irish pub in England on St Patrick's Day; we learned the song because we knew it was a popular Irish song - we are not a rebel band!! I was taken aback by literally half the pub or so, shouting back "IRA" at us. I repeat, the audience were everyday Irish young people in an Irish pub in England. I had observed people do this once in the past but assumed it was just a tiny handful of people that would do that.  I can only assume that the *real* objection to mentioning this behaviour in the Wikipedia article, is on the basis of some kind of skewed ethical argument which isn't being spelt out in so many words - but if so, you are wrong. For example, to someone like me it would have been very helpful to have this fact included and discussed (e.g. history and reasons), because then I could have been forearmed and forewarned, and we might have even chosen not to play the song (although it isn't a sectarian song in itself) or at least we could have been prepared for the reaction. And by the way, our experience goes to show the complete nonsense in the attempt to marginalise this phenomenon by claiming that audiences only sing it back to "rebel" performers.  Suppressing the facts is generally not a good way to encourage good ethics. Can someone please sort it out on the main page, it's very disappointing as Wikipedia is usually an excellent resource.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.253.77.45 (talk) 12:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

text: My fellow-musicians and I have performed this song hundreds of times around Ireland and I have heard "IRA" being sung only on a small minority of occasions, though "baby let the free birds fly" is more often sung. There are other local variations (as I mentioned above). Hohenloh  +   17:34, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  republican lyrics in the verses 

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message: Pete St John wrote a preface to his song to publicize a real-life occurrence, which apparently happened in 1843. Mary Walsh was sent to a penal colony in Tasmania in 1843, separating her from John Walsh and her sons in Clonmel. It is unknown whether a recently found (in 2006) letter from John to Mary reached her.[https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/penal-colony-wife-gets-fresh-fields-of-athenry-verse-26413302.html Penal colony wife gets fresh Fields of Athenry verse
June 18 2006 12:11 AM] Pete St John is asking that his preface about John and Mary Walsh be read before his song gets sung, and that any corroborating information be spread about their fates. --Ancheta Wis    (talk  | contribs) 22:40, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Real-life Tipperary couple: John and Mary Walsh, Mary got sent to penal colony 175 yrs ago