Talk:German Evangelical Church

message: This is a rather tiny article. Were they just not very significant? Because there's like volumes on Catholic Nazis at Wiki.--T. Anthony 08:38, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Significance

message: This article should include discussion of the Nazi concept of Jesus which they developed from 1933 onward, with links to the below, because it is such a unique view of Jesus. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus#Other_views
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race
rumjal 10:50, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it certainly shouldn't be discussed here. Racist-esoteric views about Jesus were not an official teaching of the Reich Church. Also, the Reich Church did not abandon the Old Testament, although some extremists in the German Christians encouraged the idea. --84.174.197.77 20:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: NAZI View of Aryan Jesus

message: "but the Protestant Reich Church did so for racial more than theological reasons."
This needs to be supported by some kind of source. It sound like a POV to me.
Darwinzape 20:40, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you ask me, it's quite useless to debate on wether they banned Jews for racist or theological reasons. Pro-Nazi theology contained a strong element of racism, the two were intermixed. --84.174.197.77 20:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: The more I read about the subject, the more this article seems screwed up to me. The official protestant church in the Third Reich wasn't called Protestant Reich Church but German Evangelical Church (Deutsche Evangelische Kirche). Apart from that, the German Christians tried to set up what they called a German Reich Church (not Protestant Reich Church!) in 1933, which, had the extremist wing of the German Christians succeeded, would have eventually abandoned the Old Testament. --84.174.206.50 15:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Significant Changes to Be Made

message: I have removed alot of material as the article had more information about the Confessing Church than it did about the subject of the article. If I removed something important it was by mistake and was not intentional, and I will be copy editing it over the next couple of days to smooth over the rough places. Much of the removed material might go well with the Confessing Church article. Ltwin (talk) 10:03, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Article reorganization

message: What does this mean? These terms are mentioned in the article, but a definition is never given. I assume it denotes whether the church experienced schism? Ltwin (talk) 21:27, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "Intact" and "destroyed" churches

message: Shouldn't this article be renamed "German Evangelical Church"? German Reich Church is neither the English translation of the German name nor is it a widespread term in the English language. --77.181.234.106 (talk) 14:13, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been asking myself the same question. It seems that this would make since, but I don't know enough about the subject. I will go to WikiProject Germany and see if we can get more input on this. Ltwin (talk) 21:13, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The article may need to be renamed, but it should not be to the German Evangelical Church.  This is the name covering a variety of historical congregations in English speaking lands (North America, South America, Australia) in the 17th-20th centuries.  It might perhaps be better to make a single article, or two articles, on the Confessing Church and the State Protestant Church. I would prefer to see one article called German Protestant Churches under National Socialism, perhaps.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 15:48, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added to this, and created a bibliography. It still needs work, such as explaining how organization and so many of the churches and pastors were coopted into the Nazi effort.  I've standardized the citations, but not used the templates for references, and I protected it from AWBot interference for the time being. Auntieruth55 (talk) 21:10, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  German Evangelical Church 

message: I think this article properly belongs in the history section of Evangelical Church in Germany. What do you think?--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 18:59, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm okay with merging it into the History section of the other article, but there may be others who are not.  It brings into contention the actions of the Protestants who did not accommodate National Socialism, which may open a can of worms.  I think you should post on the Wikiproject Germany page and the Protestantism project to develop a wider perspective on this.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 19:17, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Before any merger can be thought of this article has to be improved a lot. I made some changes  today, especially the last paragraph was written as if the later EKD churches were the only Protestant churches in German, totally ignoring Methodists, Baptists, New Apostolic Church, etc). --Mk4711 (talk) 20:43, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that both articles need considerable improvement.  I'm curious why the article should be improved before a merger could take place.  Could it not be part of the overall improvement process?  Auntieruth55 (talk) 20:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The EKD article could be better, okay, but it isn't that bad. But here there are some important inconsistencies, if not mistakes. I'm getting rather opposed to a merger actually. First the article could get too long. I consider this article on the German Evangelical Church, DEK, to be just the beginning. On the other hand it is dubious until when the DEK really existed. Has it ever officially ceased to exist or did it just fell in oblivion? The nazis pretty soon lost interest in this organisation. The Reich Bishop got more or less ignored as early as 1935. As the minister for church affairs died in 1941 he was even not replaced. Before his death he had gotten ignored by the Führer as well. On the other hand there was strong opposition to this organisation in the member churches, for lots of reasons. Finally the EKD sees itself rather in the continuation of the Confessing Church. Don't forget, the only reason for establishing the DEK was to get Protestant churches under control of the regime. Merging the two articles is a little bit like the merger of the articles on the Pétain Regime and post-war France. --Mk4711 (talk) 23:06, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

text: I'd rather suggest the merger of the articles on the Protestant Reich Church and Confessing Church into something like "History of Protestant churches in Germany". --Mk4711 (talk) 23:10, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for all the thoughts. Since for now there does not seem to be any consensus, I will: 1. Wait for more comments on both pages. 2. In the meantime, change German Evangelical Church so it redirects to the EKD article instead of this one. 3. Post on the Wikiproject Germany page as suggested. As for the question of continuity, when the Americans, etc. came in, they fired a a lot of church officials that they deemed as cooperating with the Nazis, but kept certain other ones. I am not aware of them ending any still-existent institutions. There was a personnel changeover, but I don't see it as being any more significant than the turnover instigated by the Nazis a decade earlier.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 21:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the minister on church affairs died in 1941 and Ludwig Müller (Reich Bishop) in 1945, probably by suicide. Apparently the DEK was more or less a failed experiment by the nazis. There were many anti-Semites in the Confessing Church as well. For some people, like the later EKD chairman Otto Dibelius it was more about power than about ideology. --Mk4711 (talk) 23:29, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There were also some in the DEK who protected Jews, and then were outed at the end of the war by the Americans for allegedly being pro-Natzi, such as most of the theological faculty at Erlangen.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 06:29, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Angr, thanks for the correction. I just removed the merge tags because it seems to me that the consensus is against the merger. Thank you to all who commented above.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 19:35, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks 15:14, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: German Evangelical Church →  – When this article was last re-named, the German word evangelische was translated to English evangelical. Such a translation is wrong. The correct translation for German evangelisch is Protestant. The English word currently used in the article name evangelical means evangelikal in German, which would be an erroneous description of the church in question. K1812 (talk) 16:22, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 24 July 2023