Talk:Newroz as celebrated by Kurds

message: May Newroz be a kind of Kurdish adaptation of Mehregan, since it doesn't share main Zoroastrian approach of Newroz-myth of Jamshid or the first movement of universe-, and if Mithraism was their worldview before Zoroastrians-Indo Iranians-had come? Parthians also had done that before. Furthermore Myth of Yima(Jamshid) doesn't match basics of Zoroastrianism, since it defines a guy without any order from God, so Persian Nowruz may be an adaptation of Mehregan basically, since they didn't have that Nowruz when they were in India.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.12.219 (talk) 02:42, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly, my point of using this reference, which is an official Turkish site, is to point out that Turkey now officially considers "Nevruz" as a Turkish holiday.Bertilvidet 16:16, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: information in this article is not neutral.
Now I am sensible enough to let you guys bring about a reference to justify the existance of this article, as clearly it should only be a section in Norouz. Until then, I am going to put a dispute tag --Kash 15:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

text: "Newroz" is one of many local prononciation varieties of Norouz the ancinet Persian New Year which is also celebrated by Kurds, Central Asian Turks, Azeris, Tajiks, Pashtuns and Bahai faith. As before, this article should be redirected to Norouz to avoid confusion. --ManiF 15:32, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I appreciate this but please atleast put a reference to where you are getting your information about the festival from. I am sure it exists but not as it is described here --Kash 15:39, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I myself first began the article from that article but bothe Newroz and Nauroz, (nauruz , noroz...) have their own article. ~This article is the Kurdish version. Yours is the Persian one. Still there are many other different versions. Since both have their own material, there is no need for redirection. Diyako Talk + 15:37, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I once before mentioned that the Persian Nuruz(na...) is full of mistake and POV and uncited stuff. The Kurdish Newroz article is a wel-cited article. The admins will look at the article and will find that there is nothing wrong with it. Diyako Talk + 15:45, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

text: If so, then mention the sources at the bottom of the page under the heading "References" --Kash 15:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The are already seven eiight references in the article even in the front of the paragraphs which is more accurate than just in the reference section, but if this can help you I do it.Diyako Talk + 15:52, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Newroz and Norouz are not different, It's the same Festival with different pronunciations. This article should redirected to Norouz to avoid confusion. --ManiF 15:42, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

text: As you see they are totally different. Diyako Talk + 15:45, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is not. It's the same Festival. Your  "source" is a Kurdish web-page. Newroz  page was redirected to Norouz, before you decided that Newroz is a new festival. --ManiF 15:55, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article has serious factual problems 

message: You mention this as a source: 
This is what? a film review? You can't use this as a source on an encylopedia, not as a reference to a historical event atleast! --Kash 15:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, if you have any problems with the Persian one, discuss it in that talk page.
Secondly even that source mentions "Turkey has appropriated this 3000 year-old Kurdish/Iranian/Persian/Zoroastrian NEWROZ festival"
That sounds like they are the same things to me? --Kash 15:59, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not exactly the same, They all have their own traditions thus there are different pages for them. Diyako Talk + 16:02, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

text: If they are the same thing but there are different ways of celebrating them then maybe they should be merged. 
This event is coming up tomorrow, it's best to make one good article instead of having several different ones, with no references and full of mistakes --Kash 16:04, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: It seems that any articles mentioning anything about Kurdishness gets the totally disuted tag. Maybe you should create a tag for this, warning that some find mentioning of Kurdishness offensive. Until then please point out the concrete passages in the text that should be POV or incorrect. Bertilvidet 16:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Creating an article about sth. is not the same as creating what the article is about. "yesturday this article did not exist" is not a problem. --Fasten 18:00, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The historical part lacks sources, that is right - and that section is tagged. Where else is the problem? And you tag it as totally disputed...so please give us the arguments for lack of both NPOV and factual accuracy. Bertilvidet 16:20, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

text: See you talk --Kash 16:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Total dispute? 

message: As far as I understand, the main dispute actually is whether this article has its own raison d'être. I proposed on the norouz talk page that we create a proper article for the Kurdish version of Newroz. My argument for this is, that Newroz is a very important event for Kurds as a manifestation of their identity...My knowledge is solely about the current political significance about Newroz as a celebration of Kurdish identity. I guess the history is the same, and I dont know if the current ways of celebrating it are the same among Kurds as among Persians. It would be OK for me if this article solely deals with political implications of the Kurdish celebrations of Newroz - in the case that the history, traditions and rites are the same. Bertilvidet 16:45, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raison d'être of this article 

message: Would people please stop deleting this article. If you dont like the content, participate in the talk. Bertilvidet 16:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop the destruction 

message: I've protected this following a request, but we don't as a rule like to protect articles with the current-event tag on them, so could someone give me a quick rundown of the dispute, and how many people are involved on each side? SlimVirgin (talk) 16:48, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for protecting the page. Hopefully this will give us more incentive to reach a compromise. Most of the debate is conducted at Talk:Norouz. As far as I understand the people deleting the article / redirecting it to Norouz, the question is whether the Kurdish celebration deserves its own article. On both sides some people have shown willingness to reach a compromise. As a compromise I suggest that we rename this article to "Kurdish Newroz celebration", as I believe it deserves an article, mainly on the grounds that the festival is an important manifestation of Kurdish identity - and keep a comprehensive Newroz/Norouz article that deals with the history og Newroz and the different way it is celebrated. Bertilvidet 17:02, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I think we already resolved this, restore/move Norouz and the Kurds and redirect this back to the main article. Kaveh 17:46, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a 'Kurdish new year' and has a 'celebration'. This 'celebration' which is called 'Newroz' needs its own article. There is no need for merging.Diyako Talk + 18:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Norooz is an Iranian festival or Iranian new year festival. I have provided academic sources for that in Norooz page. Even in Kurdish pages, it should be mentioned that this is an Iranian festival. There is NO academic source that states that Newroz is a Kurdish festival. Diyako! We need academic sources (not a kurdish forum or webpage made by separaists or political activists.) in wikipedia.   --Sina Kardar18:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Sina, I would like to invite you to Turkey in order to assist a Newroz celebration here. You will see that millions of Kurds use this opportunity to reclaim cultural rights and to display pride. If you see that - or read some articles about it - you will realize that contemporary Newroz celebration is much more than an Iranian event. Bertilvidet 18:51, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: There was a wrong redirection and I started a new article which directly discuss the matter, it is not sin! About several weeks ago there was a redirection from 'Kurdish terroristic propaganda' to 'Kurdish music' article by user Khoikhoi whicgh I made the wrong redirection deleted by an admin. Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikstan all are Persian-speaking while Kurds are Kurdish-speaking, They have their own name for their festival. No need for Persian names. Diyako Talk + 19:13, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Norouz is not a Persian name, نوروز is and Newrouz, Norouz, Norooz and all others are merely transliterations of the same word! You seem a bit caught up in pronunciations, I must say I am startled. User:SlimVirgin, please restore the redirect and allow the user to justify his changes before any further alteration to the previously accepted naming convention. Kaveh 19:26, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I know that exactly, but here the Newroz is the Kurdish common title for the Kurdish celebration of spring. Diyako Talk + 19:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. The title for such articles must follow a a well defined style like: "Norooz in Kurdistan" or "Norooz in Tajikistan" or "Norooz in Turkey" ...Read my comments in Norooz Talk page. --Sina Kardar 19:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: And this is the English Wikipedia and you have taken over a redirect for Norouz. Create an unambiguous entry for what you feel warrants an independent entry. We will discuss the merits of your arguments there. Kaveh 19:48, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is an article from Turkey clearly indicating that the Kurds all celebrate an Iranian festival. http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/4112557.asp?gid=74 69.196.139.250 21:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Hürriyet is a 'Turkish' newspaper!  Diyako Talk + 21:05, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  What do you mean ? Turks are Iranian or Persian POV ??!!!!  Hey guys!  we do not need these sources. We have enough academic source at the end of the page Norooz. No doubt that this is an Iranian festival.  --Sina Kardar21:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm not going to interfere whether Norouz is Iranian or Akkadian or whatever. But I'm discussing that Newroz is the Kurdish celebration of spring, Don't agree? then ask admins for mediation. Diyako Talk + 21:14, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have provided several academic sources. You might not care whether it is Iranian or not. Your personal view has no value here. I provided several academic sources but you were not able to provide even one. You are not expert and your personal view does not count. --User:Sina Kardar21:24, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  My sources were academic (encyclopedia iranicca and center for iranian studies at univ london). You have NOT provided any ACADEMIC source yet. --User:Sina Kardar21:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  Norouz is all the same festival Diyako and all the sources support this. The only Kurds that claim it is different are just seperatists, right? I mean even the pictures used on the article you have made up is all from a political party demonstration, admitted the photographer himself. --Kash 21:17, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The contemporary celebration is not all the same. The Newroz celebrations in Turkey are highly politisezed. The photographer himself aka Bertilvidet 21:35, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer a mediation and discuss the matter with admins rather than Iranian users. Diyako Talk + 21:27, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Whatever is the nationality of our co-editors is indeed irrelevant!!! Bertilvidet 21:30, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because many Iranians are so proud that claim that Kurds are wild and have no culture no history nothing, but Iranian culture!! Iranians educated them, Iranian made Kurds to be human. They cannot be neutral. Diyako Talk + 21:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Please discuss the issue rather than your prejudicies! Kash has not expressed such views in this debate! Bertilvidet 21:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unfortunately this is your personal preoccupation. Not only Iranians but also persians do not think like this about Kurds. Provide a source that says "Iranians believe that they educated Kurds". or a source made by Iranians indicating that Kurds are non Iranian. --User:Sina Kardar21:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Calling Kurds as well as their culture and tradition to be Iranian is another insult made by Iranian and many other people. Diyako Talk + 21:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK ! If being Iranian is insult, I now delete my insult!!!!! Now you should provide basis for your claims and insults. --User:Sina Kardar21:45, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Please discuss the issue rather than determining others' nationality Bertilvidet 21:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Please all of you friends forgive that That I discussed the matter of Iranians and Kurds. It does not belong to wikipedia or at least to this article. I was tired but It was my 'bad' .Diyako Talk + 22:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Page protection

message: The only choice is mediation. Or renaming the Kurdish article as bertilvidet said, Kurdish celebration of Newroz. Diyako Talk + 21:49, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not agree. We should agree on a consistent style for all sister pages. What title do people suggest for a page on Norooz celebrations in Lurestan ? What is going to be the title for the page on Norouz celebrations in Tajikistan ??  Here is a bbc report of Norouz of Tajikistan . You see there are many interesting things in it and it needs a title. --User:Sina Kardar 21:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This people who you are refering to all are Persian or conseiderd as Persian-speaking., Kurds speak another language and have a different but common name for the spring festival. This name is common and 'widely used' in English than any other word for Kurdish celebration. Kurds celebrate a Newroz festival this is all. Diyako Talk + 22:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is not true. There are many non-persian speaking areas like azerbaijan. It is strange that you are saying that Lors are persian or persian speaking !!!! Very good sign !! Please read this academic source.   --User:Sina Kardar22:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have no problem with using the word Newroz in the body of the article (not its title). The title of all sister pages should follow the same trend and also consistent with the mother page. --User:Sina Kardar22:15, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: My suggestions is the following:
If the title of the mother page is going to be Norouz then:
I suggest Norouz Celebrations in Kurdistan (Newroz) and the same trend for other places : Norouz Celebrations in Tajikistan, Norouz Celebrations in Azerbaijan etc. It depends also on other peoples votes. --User:Sina Kardar22:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: But the point is that the Kurdish celebrations are not only in Kurdistan. 200.000 participated in Istanbul yesterday, and throughout Europe, among the diaspora, there are many events. I am convinced that the contemporary Kurdish celebrations - highly politisized - differ a lot from the Iranian celebrations. Bertilvidet 22:50, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  About Lors: yes it is true. Because here it is in favor of you, they become Persian. and on Persian language page they suddenly become non-persian. I really like your style! --User:Sina Kardar22:47, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am against the use of 'Kurdistan' in to this, as far as I know Iranian and Iraqi Kurds don't celebrate it different to Iranians (I had a long discussion about it with my Kurd friends) --Kash 22:52, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dear Kash, I was not aware of the difference. What do you think about my new suggestion ?--User:Sina Kardar22:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  Dear Bertilvidet, we can also think about "Norouz celebrations among Kurds (Newroz)" as an alternative. Please notice that when you search for let's say "Iranian culture" you will be reverted to "Culture of Iran". It does not mean that those few milion Iranians out of Iran do not share Iranian culture. --User:Sina Kardar22:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It may be also OK to use Kurdish Celebrations of Norouz. The word Norouz must be there to make it consistent with the mother page.--User:Sina Kardar23:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The word Kurdistan will be disputde by many users (from middle east) who see it offensive! also it does not include all Kurdish people. Many Kurds live outside Kurdistan. The word Norouz has no meaning for Kurds. My suggestion is to remove any refering to this problematic word of N****z... and Instead agree on Spring celebration among Kurds or Kurdish spring celebration or Kurdish spring festival... But I should see what is others opinion esp Bertilvidet who I accept him as a quite neutral person. Diyako Talk + 23:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  As far as I know Kurds do not speak in English. There exist a main article. All sister articles must be consistent with it. --Sina Kardar23:10, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: How you mean?Diyako Talk + 23:19, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  "The word Norouz has no meaning for Kurds." Was that meant to be a joke?! I have many Kurd friends who actually call it Norouz, they actually have a problem with 'Newroz' mentioned here. They say its used in a political context where it means 'uprising' --Kash 23:14, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kash may I ask you leave this argument that you have Kurdish friends that think so or don't think so?! Diyako Talk + 23:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  I agree with Kash. "Norouz" is also used in Kurdish media. I have already provided references for that.--User:Sina Kardar23:20, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Time out. I agree with Sina that the debate is getting trite. We are only the same four people, and from both sides there have been severel unbecoming comments. I will withdraw for the night, and hope some people will come fresh to problem. Shab bekheir / Sew bas Bertilvidet 23:24, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  I am also TIME OUT! Good night. Count the people in the world you hate, then you would know how much you are far from humanity. --User:Sina Kardar23:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  First - Diyako your claim is almost insane. 40% if not more of Kurds live in Iran and speak Persian as first or second language. Whole of Iran know exactly what Norouz is as its their public holiday and the word is Persian so they would know exactly what it means. That should already be enough to discredit your "The word Norouz has no  meanings for Kurds" argument. 
Time out indeed. --Kash 23:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: 20%, and they are Kurds nothing alse, for assimilation of Kurds by Iranians and resistance of Kurds see Britannica. The only name for Kurdish celebration of spring both in English and Kurish is Newroz nothing else, don't agree? ask for mediation. Diyako Talk + 23:51, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You seem to be the only one who doesn't agree. Read my comments above and think about. if you don't agree with anything, go a head for mediation. --Kash 00:02, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Follow up: I just realized that someone made Norouz and the Kurds. That's just as good as 'Kurdish celebration of Newroz', and serves the same purpose. Cuñado  - Talk 02:46, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Compromise?

message: I've updated the Norouz article, but in my user space, so no one gets mad.  It's currently at User:Jeff3000/Norouz.  Please take a look and comment, and make changes on that page.  If enough people think it's ok, we can move it back to the Norouz page.  It includes part of this page, and then links to it. -- Jeff3000 05:48, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Support I back you 100% and want to thank you for making the proposal on your user page and for keeping the cool in the heated cross fire!
This particular debate seems to be conducted at Talk:Norouz#Possible_version_for_Norouz Bertilvidet 10:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible version for [[Norouz]] 

message: Newroz/Norouz has been celebrated for 3000 years. It is "deeply rooted" in the traditions of Zoroastrianism. It LONG outdates the Persians, those living in modern Iran, and the Norouz article makes it seem as though it is an exclusively Persian celebration, that is celebrated by other countries and populations only because they were once part of the Persian Empire. This is why Newroz and Norouz should stay separate. Newroz or Norouz is as much a Kurdish celebration as it is a Persian one, as the Kurds and the Persians and all other populations who traditionally have celebrated have some ancestral or religious commonality. 
It is NOT exclusively Persian, contrary to what the Norouz article leads those who read it to believe. That article's history of Norouz section is primarily Persian, and Norouz in Modern Iran... nuff said.
And your pathetic, "academic" sources... please. Just because someone holds some sort of degree in history of the Persian Empire, does not mean they know everything remotely related to it -such as Newroz/Norouz.
----------------------------------------------
Hey guys, we had an extensive discussions yesterday on this issue. It seems that Diyako is just editing and editing without paying attention to other people's sources and comments. No body agreed on this title: "Kurdish Celebrations of Newroz". The article must be deleted or renamed to "Norouz among Kurds" or "Norouz Celebrations among Kurds (Newroz)". The name of the mother article is "Norouz" and it must be kept in all sister articles. This article must be consistent with the main article on Norouz. --User:Sina Kardar08:54, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Persian article (Norouz) by itself has no widely accpetd term while among Kurds the common word is Newroz, any other term does not belong to Kurdish word. when you directly discuss Kurds then you should use the term Newroz not other irrelevant terms. Diyako Talk + 08:58, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The word that are used in academic sources are: Noruz, Norooz, and Norouz and it refers to the festival in general including kurdish one. I do not want to repeat myself. Read yesterday's discussions and sources. It seems that you don't have a good memory. No academic source used the word Newroz as its title.--User:Sina Kardar09:02, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is you who should read the yesterday discussion, as i said 10000000 million times the name of festival for the Kurdish people is Newroz, is it hard to understand??? 
http://www.kevinmckiernan.com/article_turkey.html
Diyako Talk + 09:05, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  I wrote all yesterday's dicussions. You did NOT provide any sources yesterday. You can say it 100000000 times more. What you personally think does not count. We need academic sources. Come out of politics. --User:Sina Kardar09:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sina you cannot just my sources. Wikipedia:V. I have provided enough sources. All my sources are verifiable, reliable, neutral, and directly discuss the case of Kurds. Diyako Talk + 09:12, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  Where are those ENOUGH!!!! sources ?  As always you claimed without offering evidence that "the boggus norouz please respect the Kurdish world" . SOURCE IT ! my friend! --User:Sina Kardar09:15, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can not you see or read my sources?? I have provided several dozens of sources Is it hard to see them? do not kill Kurdish world. Diyako Talk + 09:18, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am waiting for your sources on the above claim. --User:Sina Kardar09:19, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  I don't think you are my friend that I to be your friend. You do not resdpect anything Kurdish. ignore my sources. Don't forget I'm not new on wiki. Diyako Talk + 09:21, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am waiting for your sources. Do not change the subject. --User:Sina Kardar09:22, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok see below, Diyako Talk + 09:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newroz as separate from Norouz 

message: Source provided by Diyako, shows that Newroz is Iranian/Persian/Kurdish/Zorostrian festival. No distinction between Kurdish and Persian Newroz. Newroz is also used for Persians. --User:Sina Kardar10:57, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and we can state that in the article. Diyako Talk + 11:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newroz is both Kurdish and Persian 

message: My understanding of the general consensus (after the new structure of the Norouz page) is that this page can now be redirected to Norouz, and the full article on the Kurdish Newroz (however it is decided to be spelled will be linked as it is on the Norouz page.  Is that correct, and if so can we get this page unprotected, and redirect it to Norouz. -- Jeff3000 23:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If our friends agree to the title of the article Kurdish celebration of Newroz then as a compromose I agree to redirect the blanked Newroz article (this article) to the page Norouz. It seems logical to me.  Diyako Talk + 23:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree, I think however first we should have approval from at least Kash and Sinar Kadar at Talk:Norouz#Possible_version_for_Norouz as they have been very engaged in the debate. I have asked them on their respective user pages to weigh in. Bertilvidet 10:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conclusion? 

message: Is this article seriously claiming that Newroz and Norouz are two different things??? If this is meant to be a joke, it is not funny. This article should be deleted. One article for Norouz is obviously sufficient. Shervink 15:59, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Newroz is a redirect to Norouz. Hope this sorts things out. Bertilvidet 16:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norouz and Newroz are different transliterations of the same word 

message: Here is the exact wording from the source that is being used:
:"The most important holiday is Kurdish New Year (Newroz), on March 21, celebrating an ancient Kurdish legend marking the independence of Kurds" 
::
I've also changed the wording somewhat, and added a second source. -- Jeff3000 01:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliability of the source 

message: Is there any source or evidence that shows that it is celebrated differently in Iranian Kurdistan by Kurds there, to other regions of Iran? --Rayis 13:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, empirical evidence.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.211.101.237 (talk) 18:39, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Celebrated in Kurdish regions" 

message: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) states that one should use the most common name.  For the Kurdish celebration it is clearly Newroz as evidenced by Google searchs:
*"norouz kurds -wikipedia" - 1,530 
*"newroz kurds  -wikipedia" - 34,200
*"newroz kurdish  -wikipedia" - 71,400
*"norouz kurdish  -wikipedia" - 5,610
I will be changing it. -- Jeff3000 16:46, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: I think it would be appropriate if we put the Kurdish myth as presented by the Kurdish Institute of Paris in the first paragraph and move the Shahnameh's story a bit down after that, since this article is mainly focused on the Kurdish viewpoint  regarding Newroz/Norouz not other ethnicities. Afterall Shahnameh's stuff is just another legend not a historical fact.Heja Helweda 21:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  NO it wouldn't  Kurdish institute's viewpoint is OR and not neutral source.  If you look at Mary Boyce Zoroastrians and recent studies, Zahak is three headed dragon in Avesta.  .. also all classical sources put Kawa from Esfahan.  --alidoostzadeh 00:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The point is to represent different points of view hence following a NPOV policy. We have to learn that different people may have different interpretations and just respect them.Heja Helweda 00:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nope NPOV holds when only there are scholarly sources or primary/secondary sources.  This is not a matter of opinion.  History of Zahak , Kawah and Avesta, Shahnameh and many classical texts will be brought forth.  That is NPOV.  Not what some who knows what type of racist with inferiority complex who lacks academics credentials and academic publications says about Zahak.  Stating a lie as a fact and trying to give it weight is unacceptable.  Your argument is like given weight to say some misguided nationalists who claimed Kurds as mountain ... and then stating it as a fact.  --alidoostzadeh 00:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shahnameh and Kurdish myth 

message: Heja helweda stated that it is "another myth in which Dehak is portrayed as Persian." and cited .  After reading the page, there seems to be no significant difference between the legends, except the tyrant is Persian and not Assyrian.  The page does not state that is a fundamentally different legend.  Thus I'm removing the paragraph, and stating in the original sentence that the ethnicity could be one of two things.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 21:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The other myth 

message: :'Newrooz' is not a Kurdish spelling, 
: In Kurdish the word is pronounced as [naroz] which according to Kurdish alphabet is spelled as 'Newroz' since '/e/' in Kurdish alphabet represents short /a/ as in 'cat' and /o/ represents O as in door not   as in Persian, Arabic or Turkish versions of the word. Furthermore in Kurdish never two O'es come together.
::Therefor I remove Newrooz.
: Also NûRoj is the translation of the original Avestan (religious language of Aryans) word in modern Kurdish. Roj is the Kurdish word for 'day' and 'sun'. /j/ in Kurdish represents a consonant as in /si/ in television. Asoyrun 01:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Newrooz spelling I added was from the same article that quotes NuRoj. Oh and for reference, both words of No/Nu/however you spell it and also Roz, Ruz, Rooz is also in modern Persian and they both mean the same things as they do in Kurdish. They are both Iranian languages so the words are share linguistical origin, unlike any Turkish or Arab words you were thinking of  --Rayis 11:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually Avesta/Pahlavi is Rooch and not Roj.  --alidoostzadeh 00:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kurdish Spelling and Pronunciation

message: Azhi Dahak is still venerated as Sultan Sahak by the adherents of the Yarsan religionM. Izady, The Kurds: A Concise Handbook, Taylor & Francis, UK, 1992, , p.34.
This is utterly false and Sahak is seen as equivalent to the divine.  Sahak and Zahak are two different names and one can not use folk etymology to connect them.   --alidoostzadeh 04:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I respect your personal opinion, but you have to back up your claim with sources not just words. Izady's book is an important reference on Kurdish people.Heja Helweda 05:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not a personal opinion.  I have lots of direct sources in original Ahl-e-Haq language and Persian. Now what is your direct reference?  Minorsky is more qualified than Izady.  As far as I know Izady's book has a lot of errors.  Minorsky has a more detailed article in EI about the subject and none of the manifestation of Sultan Sahak is related to Azhi Dahak .  Also please stop relating the three headed dragon Zahak to Sultan Sahak (which is really an attack on the ahl-e-Haqq religion as if there was not enough already but I am suprised by Izady), Persians and etc based on non-academic sources.  Is it not better to start with the Avesta concept and understand the concept of Zahak in Avesta and Vedas which are the oldest texts?  And any sort of mythological claim should have proof from direct academic sources.  --alidoostzadeh 05:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Identifying the last Emperor of the Medes with Sultan Sahak is not considered as an insult or attack by the Kurds. It just points to the antiquity of the Yarsan beliefs which predate Zoroasterianism.Heja Helweda 23:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is baseless and lacks sources.  It is not in the Ahl-e-Haqq manuscript.  Also Minorsky has all the cycles in Encyclopedia of Islam for the manifestations.  Yarsan was founded by Sultan Sahak but it has some beliefs which may seem pre-Islamic but that is another discussion.  I am just discussing the cycles based on Ahl-e-Haqq manuscripts.   Izady's whole remark on Zahak is not realistic as I mentioned since Avesta and Veda pre-date Achaemenid times and the Achaemenids really did not have anything to do with the myth.  --alidoostzadeh 00:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Dear Heja, In the Shahnameyeh Haqiqat which is a main Ahl-e-Haqq source, no such thing is mentioned.  I have both Kurdish and Persian manuscripts of Kalam-e-Saranjam as well.  A person from the Ai'in Yaari would find that suggestion insulting (trust me I know some in real life).  Sahak (is actually a form of the Hebrew/Arabic Eshaaq (Isac) and Dahak sound similar but have different etymologies.  Happy Newruz.  --alidoostzadeh (talk) 18:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Izady's false claim 

message: Why you changed name of the article? First it is not only turkey, Kurds in Iraq and especially in Syria have had a similar experince with Newroz; Second turkey is not an accurate name for Kurdish lands. turkey is name of a bird, and turks are recent turkic-mongolic migrants from northeastern Asia. That's unfair, at least use name Anatolia, though Kurdistan is a more accurate alternative since not all Kurds live in Anatolia ( but in upper Mesopotamia). Asoyrun 00:11, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: watch of ethnic slurs regarding Turks or Turkey! you may be banned permanently. --Pejman47 00:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: and it is well discussed in this talk page, there is no any valid source that says that etymology differs, but due to alleged repression of government of Turkey (it is not a bird!), their practice of Newrouz have "other meaning and aspects", too. there is no difference in practice of Norouz by Kurds in Iran or Iraq with other citizens(and you know that). That move was the only way to keep this article. regards,--Pejman47 00:19, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What about Kurds in Syria?? What about Kurds in Europe?? which ethnic slur you're talking about? Asoyrun 00:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I mean this: "turkey is name of a bird, and turks are recent turkic-mongolic migrants from northeastern Asia", in Europe and Iran and Iraq, they had and have freedom to do what they want in Norouz and doesn't have any other "hidden" meaning as in Turkey. if you have sources that says celebration of kurds in Syria have also a "hidden" message. You are welcome to move it to Newroz as celebrated by Kurds in Turkey and Syria.--Pejman47 00:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I did not know saying you are a turkic people offends you. Turks being recent immigrants is discussed in the article Turkish people. also Newroz in Syria has been discussed in the article. you have to read it once again. also hundreds of thousands of Kurds celebrate Newroz the same was as in turkey (Anatolia) and Syria. Asoyrun 00:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Where it has been discussed to blank the artyicle?? Asoyrun 00:37, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: It seems that Norouz was also banned in syria too. So, you can move that to " Newroz as celebrated by Kurds in Turkey and Syria", and it was not blanking, it was merging because the etymology and other thing have been said in the main article. cheers. --Pejman47 00:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I confused mythology with etymology (I am not native speaker of English!). The mythology was also the same, see the above talk. now I must sleep, till tomorrow. --Pejman47 00:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For naming of the article I have no problem with Syria; Syria is an anciet name. but name of turkey has no historic background. It is also name of a bird in case you were no aware: Turkey (bird), and may sound confusing for many readres; though unfortunately you took it as an offense but that was not what i meant. turkey is a new name for Anatolia. I can agree on Newroz as celebrated by Kurds in Anatolia and Syria. Though it does not cover Kurds in diaspora but thats fine with me. Regards. Asoyrun 01:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And etymology is only about the origin of the word and its usage, but mythology is about legends about the celebration by a certain people. Asoyrun 01:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi guys. Please kindly do not over-react to the assertion of Persian origin for Dehak. This is not intended as an insult. If you look carefully, the persian myth itself is depicting Zahhak as an Arab. How come this is not an insult and Dehak is?. The point is among different ethnic groups, there may be different ways of looking at similar legends. So, please, it is just a legend, do not quarrel over academic sources, because Dehak or Zahhak really did not exist in history. So arguing over Shahnama or whatever is pointless. They are characters created by people. Persians see it in a particular way and Kurds interpret it in another way.Heja Helweda 22:49, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your source is not scholarly.  What ancient Kurdish source considers Zahak as Persian?  We cano not make up stuff and then say its legends without scholarly sources.  Which Professor or scholar has mentioned such a claim.  I can start a political website and claim Zahak was a Martian and then give a link to it.  But that is not how wiki works.   Also your are not the only Kurd here, so do not generalize.  Another example... Sahak is just another pronounciation of Eshaq and in Armenian it is Sahak (see Ivanow who is more of scholar than Izady ).  There is no etymological connection to Zahak.  Sahak is just armenian loanword.  And that is why Sultan Sahak is also called Sultan Eshaq.    There needs to be a standard.   Ibn Kathir (who you believe was a Kurd) also mentions Zahak as semitic Arab.. So does Ferdowsi.  Those are classical sources by all means.  I believe before Ferdowsi perhaps Tabari mentions this (I can double check).    But one can not makeup sources that have no references from random websites which are non-academic and non-published.    Anyways both Ferdowsi and Ibn Kathir are now not correct but at least they are classical sources.    See here for more of the ancient background of the story: .  --alidoostzadeh 01:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kurds in Kermanshah have Haft-sin.  So we can say some Kurds..--alidoostzadeh 01:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, but the article's name is not Newroz as celebrated by SOME Kurds or Newroz in Kermanshah. It should contain traits and traditions that are shared among all Kurds. You can add that some Iranian Kurds have haftsin, etc., but when you add the tag, it wrongly implies that all Kurds practice those things. Cheers and Hêvîya serkeftinê ji bo we dixwazim li sala nû de:)Heja Helweda 02:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Jazhni Nawroz tan piroz be.  Piroz bet Nawroz la hamu.  Nawroz has it's own pecularities in each region thus as long as a region celebrates it we should have.  By the way calling Sahak as Zahak is considered an insult and since it is not academic, it should be removed from any such articles.  thanx.--alidoostzadeh 02:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree, but the article is about Kurds not Persians, and those traditions are not part of Kurdish culture. Some Persians in the US also celebrate thanksgiving and christmas but that does not mean those are part of Persian culture.Heja Helweda 02:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I disagree.  Some of these traditions are pre-Islamic and shared.   I think you need to examine how each Kurdish region celebrates Nawroz to make a generalization about the whole.  Also it can't be compared to thanksgiving as no one has migrated here. In Iran (even persian speaking parts) there could be variety of regional customs.  As a whole though all customs relevant should be mentioned and not disregarded. --alidoostzadeh 03:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why?

message: Please have a look at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-03-10 Newroz as celebrated by Kurds. Thank you. —— Eagle101 Need help? 04:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-03-10 Newroz as celebrated by Kurds]] 

message: The main source for calling the story of Zahak and Kaveh "Kurdish" on this page seems to be a Christian Science Monitor article. Given the fact that this is a very well known Iranian (which includes but is not limited to Kurdish) myth, It seems the writer of that article has simply been under a false impression here. Watching the Norouz celebration of the Kurds and the related myth, he thought it was something confined to Kurdistan, which it is not. Unless the strange claims of a "Kurdish Myth" are not corroborated by independent academic sources, we should therefore state the myth as what it is, namely, an ancient Iranian myth, which Kurds, as an Iranian people, share.Shervink 11:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kurdish Myth or Iranian Myth?

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:00, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: I found an article on Iranica about Kurdish celebration of Newroz. []  (See section 5).  I think there is good information to add in here.  --alidoostzadeh (talk) 22:27, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I read it. It is really informative. Thanks for the link. Sharishirin (talk) 22:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks I will try to summarize the sentences or rewrite them so it won't be copyright.  I am putting the info in "Newruz Customs and Celebration"  --alidoostzadeh (talk) 22:38, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: good article

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "poem" :
** 
** 
DumZiBoT (talk) 21:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: Persians are trying to monopolize wiki in their own favour. One of the subversions by persians is the article of neworz. There is tupid bots that reverts any attempt to put an end to the persian monopoly. This article is about Newroz in Kurds. Most of Kurds not only don't call themselves Iranian but even hate this label. However in the first line of this article it has been mentioned it is an Iranian festival. From China to Western Kurdistan (Syria) people celebrate Newroz but all of the articles on WIKI have finished everyhting in favour of persians. Enough is enough. Put an end to this chauvinism. There was a legendary Great Iran thousands of years ago. Today Iran is a small country in the world. Using such terms and words as Greater Iran is absolutely absurd.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.39.225.187 (talk) 07:56, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You fail to understand the term Iranian peoples.  It doesn't mean citizens of Iran or related to Iran, but a much more widespread area and ethnicity including the Kurds.  Please read the Iranian peoples article which has tons of references and is a featured article.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 12:59, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persian's Cultural Terorrism on Wiki 

message: I've removed a claim referring to Newroz as the common Kurdish "transliteration" of whatever rendering the author believed was its standard form. Newroz is in fact the standard Kurdish spelling in the Kurdish alphabet. What then, may I enquire, is the source/authority for the second form used in the article?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZanLJackson (talk • contribs) 02:05, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The words Newroz and Nuroj 

message: I think the sentence "Perhaps New Ruz has just been getting better press because of the prominence that its staunchest adherents - the Iraqi and Iranian Kurds - have been enjoying through their more frequent popular uprisings." in Izady's "The Kurds: A Concise Handbook" does not means sentence in the text :  Izady further states that Newroz might have gained prominence in the northern and western parts because of the prominence of the celebrations that the staunchest Kurdish adherents of Newroz, the Iraqi and Iranian Kurds, have enjoyed through their more frequent popular uprisings.
Why not we use the original sentence from the text ? (Although I think the frequency of Kurdish uprisings in Iran is NOT more than Turkey and Syria , that means the whole sentence can be deleted) . --Alborz Fallah (talk) 09:25, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I will omit the sentence in 24 h if there is no opposition .--Alborz Fallah (talk) 14:01, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Comprehension 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I WP:BOLDly rearranged and tightened up the Mythology section, but please correct if I misunderstood or (de)emphasized something (in particular, by moving the reference to Coptic tradition to a footnote). The different name spellings should be conformed (logically, to Kurdish spelling? "an Assyrian who is named Zuhak by the Kurds") Zahak, Zahhak, Zuhak, Dehak; Kaveh, Kawa 
The Kaveh story is different at the Kāve and Zahhak Wikipedia entries. Is this entry's retelling the favored Kurdish version? (It should be made clear why this retelling is different) 
In the lead, Newroz is also called Gulus ("Kurdish: گوڵوس‎"). Should this different name be explained? Fishlandia (talk) 17:32, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mythology, Gulus 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: Isnt Newroz celebrated on the 21 every year by all kurds? Im pretty sure it is. On the top of the page it says 21th, but the infobox and in Mythology it says 20th of march. Krqftan (talk) 17:35, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  21 of march?