Talk:Avoid note

message: What about the avoid notes for modes of the harmonic minor scale? there should be a chart too. For instance, can I use a bVI maj7 with #9? --Tommy The Wise (talk) 18:43, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  harmonic minor modes 

message: Looking over this article, there seems to be some fundamental issues in how information is presented. The difficulty of "jazz theory" concepts is that there remains a lack of standardization in various "rules" (e.g. available tensions) and practices. I applaud previous contributors for their efforts.
Within this article, discussion of major key avoid notes uses the Berklee system (which I consider logical as Berklee as an educational institution pioneered the related "chord-scale system", and they remain one of the few academic institutions releasing their own textbooks/materials on jazz theory as opposed to individuals). However, the information relating to minor key harmony uses a separate system by Haerle, which while valuable, does not follow the established rules previously established in the article for avoid notes (e.g.  Haerle's idea of the Dorian b2 chord scale includes 13 as an available tension, which it isn't in Berklee's system due to the mentioned "dominant quality"). The Haerle system also names the melodic modes differently to the standard established in the Modes of the melodic minor scale article (e.g. the sixth mode named Locrian #2 as opposed to Locrian♮2 or Half-diminished).
I propose the article could be made more informative/logical if the primary information on avoid notes is standardized around Berklee's system, and if the need is felt, discussion of other avoid note theories such as the Haerle system could be put under a separate heading. This would align the article with Wikipedia's greater discussion of the chord scale system.
Berklee's Harmony 2 Text discusses all three common minor key possibilities, with charts on pages 31, 34, and 37 for natural, harmonic, and melodic minor tensions, respectively. These charts, as well as the chart on page 35 of the Harmony 1 text seem to more logically lay out available tensions compared to the ones currently in the article, separating diatonic tensions by adding an additional column for "exception" tensions (such as the dominant b9, #9, b5, b13 tensions).
Is there any opposition to this idea/counterpoints on what to do with the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.27.168.18 (talk) 20:19, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for starting a discussion, 73.27.168.18. I've removed your link to a text on Jason Du Mars's website because I see no evidence that it is hosted there with permission of the copyright holder. I have the Berklee/Nettles texts and have looked briefly at those pages of the second volume, and I see no mention of avoid notes on any of them. As I recall, when I wrote this material, that was why I used Haerle as a reference. This page is not about tensions but about avoid notes – and yes, of course one could argue that an unavailable tension is, at least some of the time, an avoid note. It seems to me that what we really need is a page at Tension (jazz harmony) or some similar title – the page at Tension (music) is unfortunately about something quite else. Calling a sharpened second step "♮2" is bizarre in the extreme and obviously at variance with what we routinely do in practice. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standardizing the Article