Talk:Judith Barsi

message: Mirror Vax, a murder/suicide such as the ones involving Phil Hartman and Judith Barsi, counts as unsolved cases, on the merit that even though we know who did the crime, the circumstances behind it will never be known and the killer was never brought to justice as he killed himself.  A murderer killing him/herself makes the case all the more difficult to solve, if not at all.  So it is an unsolved case, and the category is hereby reinstated.
:Why don't you make this argument over at September 11, 2001 attacks. That might be entertaining to watch. Mirror Vax 23:06, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The credit is already listed in the filmography section. Pinkadelica♣ 21:33, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: The Filmography lists a 1989 production in which Judith Barsi was credited with voice acting.  Maybe the technical details of sound production are simple, I wouldn't know, but shouldn't the circumstances of this posthumous use of her voice be mentioned in the article? -Fsotrain09 01:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The production of an animated motion picture is complex and time-consuming. The voice work is normally done rather early in the process, since the animation can be matched to the speech far more easily than the speech could be matched to the animation. It is quite normal for an animated movie to be released well after the voice work has been completed. As a matter of fact, A Land Before Time, which Judith voiced before All Dogs Go To Heaven, was not released until some months after her death. 24.36.35.188 (talk) 03:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Posthumous Voice Work 

message: I was wondering if we could have a bit more info about her headstone?  Does anyone know why her grave was unmarked for so long.  Certainly the family would have had money to buy a headstone.  Also, there is no mention about the reaction to her death by the media and by anyone she ever worked with.  Does anyone have any info about this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.250.143 (talk) 19:56, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (I hope this answers some of your questions, in part at least) Her mother and father both died at the same time as Judith. As far as I know, she had no other family (apart from whatever relations her parents left behind in Hungary) to buy a headstone. According to her certificate of death she was not embalmed, which suggests that no one was available to take care of her funeral arrangements. Apart from the initial report of her death, the LA Times took a closer look at her fate in an article called "A Script Of Fear", printed a couple of weeks after the murder. The Commission for Children's Services was critical of the Los Angeles County Department of Children's Services for its handling of the case, and made a series of recommendations. This was reported in the Times, but I do not know whether anything was actually done. Michael Caine was quoted as saying "She was a very talented actress and a lovely young girl." Don Bluth said, "She was absolutely astonishing. She understood verbal direction, even for the most sophisticated situations. We loved working with her." I understand there was some sort of tribute to Judith at the 1989 Academy Awards Show, but I have not seen it. 24.36.35.188 (talk) 04:50, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A childhood friend of Judith's has told me he heard that Maria had a brother in the LA area. Does anyone know more? 24.36.35.188 (talk) 15:35, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gravestone 

message: Because the only persons mentioned in this article (at the moment) are all surnamed "Barsi", I think it would be preferable to call the child "Judith" rather than "Barsi". Note that the parents are called "Jozsef" and "Maria" throughout. 24.36.35.188 (talk) 14:29, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Barsi" or "Judith" 

message: Use wikipedia all the time, new to editing.
This page is seriously lacking in sources. It needs to be sourced or removed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.102.158.15 (talk) 23:45, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can find additional sources, add them. See WP:CITE to learn how to do that. The article is not going to be removed from Wikipedia because every last sentence doesn't have a source (read WP:CITEKILL and WP:FACTS). The subject is clearly notable and none of the content that is uncited is contentious or damning to the subject in any way. If the subject were still alive and the uncited material were contentious, you might have a point but since neither is true your comment is moot and rather unhelpful. 70.242.0.95 (talk) 23:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: I believe it's customary for a person's nationality to be based on the country the person is born, not on the nationality of the person's parents, even in this case where we are talking about a child. Her parents may have been from Hungary but Judith was born in America and never had Hungarian citizenship. For An Angel (talk) 18:56, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree and I have since restored the lede to reflect that Barsi was American. Pinkadelica♣ 20:31, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality 

message: judiths parents are both hungarian and in all other pages such as Michael J. Fox and Ashleigh Aston Moore that they'd either be *place of birth*-american or nationality is *place of birth*, also, they are immigrants and i don't think are legal citizens. so at least put Hungarian-American or better yet Hungarian which it says on her death certificate.
:Barsi's parents' nationality has no bearing on her nationality - it doesn't matter if they became citizens or not. She was born, raised and worked in the United States which made her a citizen of the U.S. As far as what Barsi's death certificate states (which is available online) - her Race/ethnicity is liasted as "White/Hungarian". Race and ethnicity are not the same as nationality. Further, the death certificate clearly states that she was born in "Burbank" and that she was a citizen of the "USA". Pinkadelica♣ 20:46, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not copy another editor's signature, even in jest. I have removed it per WP:SIGEDITORIMPERSONATE. Now, nobody is saying Barsi was not of Hungarian decent. The categories in the article identify her as such and no one has disputed that. We are discussing her nationality, which you seem to be getting mixed up with her heritage. Nationality and heritage are two different things. Her parents were born in Hungary, they were Hungarians who may or may not have become American citizens later (I presume they did as they both lived and worked here for many years). Barsi herself was born in the United States to Hungarian parents - that means she was an American citizen who was of Hungarian decent. If she were born in Hungary and then immigrated to the United States as her parents had, then we would identify her "Hungarian-American" presuming she became a citizen at some point. Even her death certificate cites her as being an American citizen which is enough to satisfy both WP:V and WP:RS. As for the two examples you keep referring to, nothing in either of those article discuss the nationality of the subject's parents. Both subjects are seemingly identified by their nationalities (ie the countries where they were born and/or hold citizenship). Please see WP:OPENPARAGRAPH for additional information regarding what kind of information should be in the lede paragraph. Pinkadelica♣ 23:57, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Under the "Decedent Personal Data" (11a to be exact) which typically lists such information. Pinkadelica♣ 00:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

text: The death certificate is available on Find-a-death. Section 11a, under "Decedent Personal Data" states "Citizen of What Country" - answer is clearly "USA". Pinkadelica♣ 21:31, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Reverting and/or adding additional content while a discussion is ongoing in not a compromise. I am reverting as WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a solid argument. Further Barsi was born in California and was, unless another sources is forthcoming, an American citizen. She was, according to her death certificate, an American citizen, and should continue to be identified as such. We also do not refer to ethnicity and/or heritage in the lede. She is categorized as "Hungarian American" which is sufficient. Unless someone has a reliable source that clearly states she held both Hungarian and American citizenship, I've no idea why this is an issue. Pinkadelica♣ 22:48, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

text: What other articles say has no bearing on what this article says per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Just because something is incorrect or violates policy elsewhere in the project does not justify it being that way elsewhere. If you have issue with the Ashleigh Aston Moore article, go to the talk page and debate that there. Her citizenship, what the article has her nationality listed as has nothing whatsoever to do with Judith Barsi's. Since your response are degrading into lame name calling and I am rather tired of repeating myself, I suggest you open a request for comment if you just cannot accept my repeated explanations. Pinkadelica♣ 22:06, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Please watch the WP:NPA|personal attacks]] and do NOT mimic another users signature again. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:37, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  revert to hungarian 

message: I like the portrait and all, and it has a place in this article, but isn't it inappropriate to use a portrait of her as her picture when there are many actual photographs of her available?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.36.32 (talk) 21:22, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. A photo would be better and should not be too hard to find. As an aside, the "portrait" is rather creepy and should probably not even be included in the article because it was obviously made by someone. I don't know how it ended up as an approved Commons image. 24.72.176.240 (talk) 05:44, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought the old photo (from find a grave) was better but it was deleted because it was not a free image. Normally, with articles of people who are deceased, nonfree images are allowed since it would be impossible to replace it with a free image if one didn't already exist before they died. But in this case, the image of her portrait was made for Wikipedia so it got replaced. For An Angel (talk) 15:36, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Portrait

message: I reverted the recent edits by User:EditorE. Overall, prior to my edits, this article was poorly organized, and my edits were an effort to better organize the information contained within the article while removing details that fell under WP:NOTMEMORIAL.
;Introduction
Barsi did not "star" in Jaws: The Revenge, and her other film contributions were as a voice actress. Trivia about her stature and "[playing] characters younger than her actual age" does not belong in the lead of an article. Also, the drawing of Barsi was not appropriate for the infobox.
:Okay, I can get maybe why saying she starred in that Jaws film was dumb to do, and playing characters other than her might've been Trivial, but I didn't put the fan art back in the infobox when I reverted your edits. EditorE (talk) 14:53, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see why there would be too much family history in the "Family history" section before you put it with the death section. The amount of family history before your edits were pretty much the same amount as the Brian Epstein wiki article, which is already a good article. Don't see why that fails WP:NOTMEMORIAL. EditorE (talk) 14:53, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Don't see why the info you removed from this section fails WP:NOTMEMORIAL. In fact, in the Heather O'Rourke wiki article, it mentions that Spielberg discovered Heather O'Rourke "having lunch with her mother[7] while older sister Tammy was shooting Pennies from Heaven.[9]" It's the same type of info as Judith Barsi being discovered at a skating rank, so I don't see why Barsi being discovered should be removed. Also, the quote by the director is a very significant opinion, and I'm sure there's other biography articles on Wikipedia that use notable people's opinions about him or her to give the reader an idea on what the person's personality was like. EditorE (talk) 14:53, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

text: I think the abuse section wasn't under any violation of WP:NOTMEMORIAL. It looked like a comprehensive enough section to me on what she grew news coverage and media attention for. EditorE (talk) 14:53, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Well, the fact that Fan club activity may not be necessary for a legacy article, however I think saying that 75 people attending the funeral, most of them children, does not violate that policy, and it's not like it reads like some sort of Newspaper Obituary. EditorE (talk) 14:53, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Oh, and by the way. How come a gravestone shouldn't be used in this article. I'm sure at least some dead person bio articles on Wikipedia use gravestones in those article's "Death" or "Legacy" section. EditorE (talk) 17:05, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: A picture of her grave marker is not necessary for this article as the infobox contains an image of the subject. AldezD (talk) 17:21, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits and [[WP:NOTMEMORIAL]] 

message: I also removed two external links to fansites per WP:ELNO #11, since neither was written by a recognized authority. AldezD (talk) 16:49, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: I've asked for a Third Opinion, given the brewing edit war. Paul Austin (talk) 17:21, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That may or may not all be true, but that issue has not been sufficiently discussed between the editors here to invoke dispute resolution. Moreover, as I say in my personal standards, linked above, I do not issue further opinions in a matter in which I've already given a 3O. Once you've discussed those matters thoroughly with the other editor, using the appropriate policies as a framework, then if you become deadlocked you can apply for a new 3O or for help at DRN. Remember that in those cases in which policies and guidelines do not provide a clear solution, material is added and deleted at Wikipedia via consensus and it is the burden of the editor who is either attempting to introduce new reliably-sourced material or remove existing reliably-sourced material to obtain a consensus for that action. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 20:15, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  I've asked for a third opinion at Wikipedia: Dispute resolutions 

message: These two sections are barely relevant to the article subject. The information contained within adds no understanding to the article subject, and also does not provide basis for explaining the abuse and murder of the article subject. Instead of edit warring, please provide reasoning and basis for including the information before re-adding/maintaining. AldezD (talk) 17:26, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancestry and Family History sections 

message: I removed the reference to DEATH OF A FAMILY - Judith Barsi's story on YouTube, since this reference is a violation of WP:YOUTUBE, copyrighted material posted on an individual user's account. If there is a non-copyvio version, please re-add the reference. Statements previously referenced with this source have been tagged with WP:CN. AldezD (talk) 12:47, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Then how about we cite the documentary without the youtube link. That should work, right? EditorE (talk) 13:40, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youtube video and other references 

message: , Not having information about where the image of Judith comes from is both ridiculous and patently stupid. Since i do not believe you are stupid, please re-familiarise yourself with WP:OWN. Paul Austin (talk) 11:02, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox caption/Punky Brewster 

message: Please do not add deliberate factual errors (, , , , , ) or add "little orphan girl" describing a character/change "child" to "little girl" (, , , , ) as seen in these linked edits. These edits do not improve the article. AldezD (talk) 02:03, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: It is stated that " Physical violence continued", but the article refers to no physical violence, jus the threat of violence. This should be corrected.Royalcourtier (talk) 06:48, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: In the previous paragraph, it says, "In December 1986, Maria reported his threats and physical violence toward her to the police." It's iffy because the police didn't press charges but there's no WP:BLP concern since all three people are no longer alive. RunnyAmiga ※ talk 00:02, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: And even though I just posted a reply to a thread that had probably long been forgotten, it's still pertinent, especially since the reported-to-the-police text was there when this thread was started. RunnyAmiga ※ talk 00:08, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there was no mention of actual specified physical violence, or any confirmation physical violence actually occurred, I would suggest that it would be unsound to say that "physical violence continued".Royalcourtier (talk) 06:16, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wondered if that would be a problem but since it's not a BLP concern, I figured that might lower the standards for this. If not, I have no issue with adding qualifying text to show that it wasn't established beyond Barsi's mother's police report or if it has to go further, just removing the offending text. RunnyAmiga ※ talk 23:33, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Physical violence 

message: Assume a person with a Wiki article is/was shot to death. Which, if any, should be listed under death_cause =?
*Gunshot
*Gunshot wound
*Gunshot wound to [where inflicted]
*Homicide
Note: while this is intended for general resolution, an editor has noted that the article subject was killed at age 10.
—ATS 🖖 talk 00:03, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC on cause of death

message: "murder" is a legal term. József Barsi killed himself before he could be tried and convicted of murder. Judith and Maria's deaths were therefore homicides not murders. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 05:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The RFC linked above from two years ago addresses this issue. AldezD (talk) 20:15, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "murder" vs. "homicide" 

message: Regarding that user's recent addition of the Hanna-Barbera audition... the two series H-B were making in 1988 were Dink, the Little Dinosaur and Paddington Bear. All the evidence and sources we have point towards it being Dink that Judith was scheduled to audition for that day. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 06:47, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no "evidence" and there are no "sources" presented that point toward any of your WP:OR comments. AldezD (talk) 15:36, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hanna-Barbera 

message: Change American actress to hungarian-American actress. Her mother and father were both hungarian 31.111.19.148 (talk) 16:44, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. Doesn't appear she's actually Hungarian, although her parents were. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2022