Talk:Muay Thai

message: Footnote six is a dead link. This references an important claim in the lede, one which you always hear in the histories of the martial arts- "our martial artists handily defeated a bunch of dudes from other styles blah blah blah"- and is usually spurious, the strutting of a kuchi bushi. The sentence will be removed soon by yours truly unless real documentation can be provided.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.215.149 (talk) 04:10, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing footnote for strong claim 

message: The Muay Thai article is experiencing multiple attacks, some in the form of section blanking, some in the form of self promotion. I'd like to propose that someone with rollback User rights revert the article to a stable previous version and Semi-protect the article to deflect future vandalism. Thanks! — Jdcollins13 (talk) 16:42, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Also requested on relevant WikiProject Talkpages. — Jdcollins13 (talk) 16:48, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted the article to what appears to me to be the last good version.  Semi-protection is unlikely to be granted if requested at WP:RPP since there isn't frequent enough vandalism, at least I don't see it.  I'll also note that nearly the entire article lacks references.  The only citations are in the lead, which usually shouldn't contain references since it should be a rehash of referenced material in the body of the article.  Someone who is familiar with the topic area and where sources can be found may want to give some attention to the article.  --TreyGeek (talk) 17:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Understood. Thanks very much for your help. — Jdcollins13 (talk) 18:47, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article attacks 

message: "The art of eight limbs" is a term that I have seen in print for ten years, without being attributed to anyone significant. Is the term significant in Thai? It probably is not significant in English, partially because elbows and arms are not counted as seperate limbs—making the term somewhat nonsense. --Followmaigoose (talk) 12:21, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nonsense about Eight limbs 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: In this article there should be more about the tradition behind Muay Thai by talking about those that teach it (Kru). By adding this to the article the reader would gain more insight about how the fighters prepare and train. There could be a section about the wai, this is a critical part of Thai culture and is a big part of Muay Thai that has been skipped over.PaulrdUC (talk) 14:18, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding More Material 

message: I plan on editing the article in the near future. I will be removing some of the words in the headings such as the word "fable" in the Folklore/fable section, and changing the "The Mongkhon and Pra Jiad" section and changing that to "Traditional Wear". I believe by doing this it will make the article easer to read as it will start broad and move into a more specific point of view when talking about some of the garments worn during the pre-fight. I will also be taking out the last paragraph in the Conditioning section. This paragraph does not belong in this section as it does not pertain directly to conditioning and could confuse the reader. I will be changing the heading of Children to "Children in Muay Thai" this will give a good background for the reader as they can associate children with the sport instead of just trowing in the word children which could lead them anywhere. Lastly, I will be added a section about injuries. This section will give the reader insight about what kind of injuries happen in Muay Thai and will further their understanding of the physicality of the sport. PaulrdUC (talk) 05:42, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Planning on making edits 

message: Recently a user has been changing "Muay Thai" to "muay Thai", with only the second word capitalized. I was wondering which one was proper. Tagging the user . Inter&anthro (talk) 04:14, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would muay (มวย) be capitalised? It means 'boxing' or 'fisticuffs'. It also means 'chignon' or topknot (hairstyle) and มวยหมู่ means 'gang warfare'. It is a noun, not a proper noun. We use the construction "American football", not "American Football". Seligne (talk) 04:51, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm guessing because most media outlets and blogs use the former with both capitalized than the latter with only Thai capitalized 1 2 3. I haven't seen many, or really any, instances of muay Thai being used. Inter&anthro (talk) 05:27, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: And... "Muaythai" is the recognized name of Muay Thai from  the IOC, but most medias outlets hardly use this word too. --Natboss (talk) 07:18, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

text: I have reverted Natboss's out-of-process category changes; Russbot should take care of changing the articles back. The category naming should be discussed at CfD, but that discussion would benefit from some sort of consensus here first. I'd say the capitalisation "muay Thai" is plainly incorrect, since it isn't a compound noun composed of two independent English words (if it were so, it would be "Thai muay", following the English word order). Instead, it's a loanword from มวยไทย, and should be treated as a single unit. Either it is a proper noun, and thus capitalised "Muay Thai", or it should be treated as a common noun and de-capitalised, i.e. "muay thai". The latter would reflect the treatment of similar words like pad thai, which appears in dictionaries uncapitalised. However, muay thai hasn't yet made its way into most major dictionaries, and the only online one I found, Collins Dictionary, has it capitalised as "Muay Thai". --Paul_012 (talk) 10:05, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Or use "muaythai" instead? The "muaythai" is coined by International Federation of Muaythai Associations for reducing conflict with Laos (Muay Lao), Cambodia (Pradal serey) and Myanmar (Lethwei) that ban the word of "Muay Thai" from Thailand's claim and use "Muay" instead. And the world of "muaythai" is recognized by IOC, FISU, IWGA, OCA etc. Main organizations use "muaythai" including World Muaythai Council (sanctioned by Royal Thai Government), International Federation of Muaythai Associations (recognized by IOC, FISU, IWGA, OCA), and World Boxing Council Muaythai (sanctioned by World Boxing Council). --Natboss (talk) 10:46, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be an option to consider, but I don't think it sees usage by the majority of English-language sources, per WP:COMMONNAME. Google Ngram Viewer does show capitalised "Muay Thai" to be the overwhelmingly most common form. --Paul_012 (talk) 10:09, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Either way, the proper process is 1) article naming discussion here (I suggest the broadly advertised WP:RM process), and ONLY once that reaches consensus should any CfD discussion be opened (which can be a speedy CfD if the article naming discussion results in a renaming of the article: speedy renaming criterion C2D), and 3) if the CfD results in category name changes, the necessary category creations/deletions and page recategorizations be performed by a bot, NOT by manual user editing.   UnitedStatesian (talk) 03:21, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Another spelling change, mentioned above, that I don't know has consensus is "Muaythai" rather than "Muay thai" or "Muay Thai" (as in Muaythai at the 2005 Asian Indoor Games). Are these page moves & more category renames that need to be undone or is this an acceptable spelling that meets with consensus? Liz Read! Talk! 17:10, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Still wondering about these categories and pages with "Muaythai" rather than "Muay Thai"...should they be changed back? Liz Read! Talk! 17:19, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess it could be argued if a certain spelling is preferred by certain sporting events, but it's probably far from uncontroversial. Maybe better revert those moves and start RMs if desired. --Paul_012 (talk) 18:05, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Interesting. I just assumed it was just incorrect grammar. I noticed the capitals too and "corrected" it but I am not familiar with the standard format. So what's the consensus? Capitals or no capitals? Because you guys aren't that clear. 49.186.54.163 (talk) 22:54, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Muay Thai or muay Thai

message: It is very clear.in word " muay thai", "muay" meaning is waving,striking in burmese language." Thai" is formerly known as thai people. Muay thai simply mean striking martial art of thai people . Thai people learnt lethwei during warring states period and later they modified this art and renamed as muay thai. Thai prince naresuan is first learner of lethwei when he is hostaged in burmese palace . Burmese king bayint naung treat him like a burmese prince and taught burmese tradition . Later he came back to thailand and rebelled back with this art. He betrayed his faith . Neoamon15 (talk) 05:47, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muay thai ,muay boran&muay chaiya ,others similar martial arts are lineages of burmese lethwei 

message: Please edit the history of Muay Thai. There is nothing related to Cambodian martial art, bokator MacMT (talk) 00:55, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muay Thai has nothing related to Cambodian martial arts 

message: Delete "(in Indonesian meaning is benjang or gelut galuh[3])." The phrasing is awkward + unverified claims. 2403:6200:89A6:5DA:9CEE:7455:3D72:E29D (talk) 09:46, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: There is a citation Lightoil (talk) 02:40, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 June 2023 

message: In reality, Thailand and Cambodia were once part of the same country in the distant past, almost 1000 years ago, and we have been separate for a long time. Thailand has developed its own culture and traditions over a long period, while Cambodia has not made much progress. Recently, Thai dramas that depict the ancient history of Thailand have become popular in Cambodia. Cambodians enjoy them and believe that those things belong to Cambodia, using them to claim various rights in Thai culture. Star1519 (talk) 14:19, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Ban ip cambodia bokator not muaythai bokator dance not fight real muaythai not khmer 2001:FB1:41:AA5D:16:18A5:174C:9784 (talk) 23:09, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why do many Cambodians like to come and edit information about Thailand, especially in English, to make those references about Cambodia and claim that Thailand copied them from Cambodia?  

message: cambodia writing fake story
Bold text 83.118.55.9 (talk) 08:59, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Deauthorized. (talk) 09:21, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 July 2023 

message: Some Cambodians want to change the history of Muay Thai. therefore writing a new Muay Thai story 
why they're making fake story. 83.118.55.9 (talk) 09:12, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some cambodian want to change Muay thai History  

message: this is a minor edit but " The European Olympic Committees (EOC) had officially announced the inclusion of Muay Thai, or Thai-style boxing, at the 2023 European Games to be held in Krakow, Poland." should no longer be past tense as it has now occurred ! 8-) thanks Ts4ts4ever (talk) 03:38, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2024 

message: 2001:FB1:18:1C9A:75FB:E084:BEAE:22C1 (talk) 09:15, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —k6ka 🍁 (Talk · Contributions) 14:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muay Thai - Parenthood doesn't have the word Bokator.  There is only ancient boxing. 

message: 2001:FB1:18:1C9A:75FB:E084:BEAE:22C1 (talk) 09:45, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —k6ka 🍁 (Talk · Contributions) 14:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 March  2024 Muay Thai - Parenthood doesn't have the word Bokator.  There is only ancient boxing.  

message: "change Bokator to Muaythai" JFLW (talk) 16:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: There are three sources for that in the article. You'll need a compelling explanation as to why all of those sources are invalid. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the mention from the infobox. As described in the article text and sources, this association is disputed, and is a viewpoint especially pushed by Cambodian proponents in this nationalistically fuelled debate. It does not belong in the infobox, which is ill-suited for statements that need qualification. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:03, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

text: That said, there's clearly a high amount of off-wiki coordinated WP:meatpuppetry going on. Someone might want to look further into these new accounts' contributions (not something I'm currently prepared to do). --Paul_012 (talk) 09:07, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2024 

message: ต้องลบอันนี้ด้วยครับ please delete
kun Khmer in Cambodia,
แล้วก็ and
Kun Khmer's precursor Bokator to also be the progenitor of Muay Thai.[7][8] Apichai0075 (talk) 10:00, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: Please provide a reason why you want the content removed. Shadow311 (talk) 16:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2024 

message: As mentioned above, few have bemoaned the lack of academic sources backing the link between Muay Thai and Khmer martial arts, the references consisting mainly of journalistic articles.
Nevertheless I've found the book "Muay Thai Boran, The Martial art of the Kings, Secret techniques" by Italian author Marco de Cesaris .
The book was endorsed by the royal Thai embassy of Thailand, which dedicates in the beginning of the book the following:
Dedication written by the Minister Counsellor of the Royal Thai Embassy in Italy.
Mr. Marco De Cesaris is an Italian Master, exceptionally impassioned and competent in Thai traditional martial arts. Thanks to his research, he has been able to conduct an in-depth investigation into the Thai Fighting Arts, achieving for himself a respected and well-known reputation both in Thailand and in Italy, as well as in other European and American countries.
For many years, he has been an appreciated collaborator of the Royal Thai Embassy in Italy and currently also of our Thai Trade Center of Rome.
By means of his books Arjarn Marco is bringing to light, in Italy and elsewhere, recognition of Muay Thai Boran, which plays a significant part in our precious cultural heritage. Without the support and efforts of Master Marco, Muay Thai Boran would not be as appreciated as it is nowadays and could even have been lost.
I am sure that in this, his most recent work on Look Mai May Thai techniques, he will receive great appreciation from his readers all over the world and will provide precious information to all who believe and practice the authentic tradition of Muay, one of Thailand's precious cultural heritages.
Thanks
Mrs Suchana Chucherd
Minister Counselor Commercial
Office of Commercial Affairs
Royal Thai Embassy, Rome
The preface includes a series of acknowledgements by Muay Thai Khrus masters, namely Grand Master Yodthong Senanan Sriwaraluk, Khru Phosawat Saengsawang (Professor at Rajabat Maha Sarakham University), Grand Master Sam Tubtimtong, Grand Master Chinawooth Sirisompan (President of Khru Muay Association (KMA), Honorary President of International Muay Boran Academy (IMBA), Vice President of Association Institute of Thai Martial Arts (AITMA))
I plan to include this reference in the article, and to extract some content based on the following parts:
"One can certainly talk about technical and cultural influences that have been of some importance in the actual methods of approaching warfare and military tactics and strategies, and as a consequence bare hands or armed fighting. The ancient Indian culture has notably influenced the Thai way of life and also Indian Martial Arts have acted as a role-model for Muay techniques both directly and indirectly through other cultures which have an important role in the history of South East Asia, such as those of the Mon and, above all, the Khmer."
"Eastern Martial Arts historians are still debating the relationship between Siamese warrior traditions and Khmer fighting techniques (called "Muay Khmer" by Thai people), that according to one theory would form the origins of Muay Boran. In fact according to some, Pradal Serey or the more military style named Bokkator which developed in Ancient Cambodia from the 10th century onwards, and whose existence is demonstrated in the still visible bas-reliefs at Angkor Wat, the historic imperial ca-pital, were imported into Siam.
Here, these techniques would have been processed and elaborated upon becoming the technical basis of archaic Muay."
"According to another theory, both Muay Khmer and Muay Thai have their origins in the fighting style used by the populations in northern Thailand, around the Province of Nakhon Ratchasima. The fighting style of Muay Khorat, which originated in that area, after going through numerous transformations and implementations, would be the missing link between the Cambodian and the Thai disciplines."
"The first patriarch of Muay Korat was Phra Hensamahan, he encrypted the most articulate and coherent form of the style the story of which goes back to ancestral traditions of South East Asia. It's told that the source of his style came from martial techniques developed in ancient Cambodia during the Khmer's reign: according to our studies the origin of Muay Khorat would be the mythical Martial Arts of Angkor Wat, seat of the ancient capital of the Khmer Empire, whose culture strongly influenced the inhabitants of the Khorat area."
"The names of many Siamese kings and warriors are inextricably linked to Muay Boran traditions that for centuries have been a concrete heritage of the Thai people. King Naresuan (known as the Black Prince of Siam) (fig. IV) who reigned from 1569 was held hostage from the age of nine by the Burmese. He learned from his enemies their fighting techniques that dated back to those warrior traditions of Khmer empire and was capable of using them against his very prison guards. Once he was released he personally fought in 27 different battles and survived. On January 25th, 1592 during the final battle of Burma's fifth invasion of his country, King Naresuan, whose battle position was on the top of an elephant, saw and was able to recognize (from his youth spent in prison) the King of Burma. He succeeded in killing him with his deadly Ngaaw spear. From then on this date has been celebrated as the Thai Army Day."  Pierrevang3 (talk) 15:50, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muay Thai's connection to Cambodia 

message: Doplan (talk) 05:47, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. User:CanonNi (talk|contribs) 05:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2024 

message: Add a section on scoring, which briefly explains the Muay Thai scoring system. Narisxs (talk) 08:44, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Please type here the proposed additions to the article. ABG  (Talk/Report any mistakes here)  09:53, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2024 

message: The International Federation of Thai Boxing Associations (IFMA) revealed that the sport of Thai boxing which is the national art of Thailand Will be able to participate in demonstration competitions in the biggest sporting event of mankind, the 2024 Olympic Games "Paris 2024" in Paris, France. It will be held on 26 July - 11 August 2024. 2403:6200:88A0:188D:E462:8A9D:B45A:3803 (talk) 23:28, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Content added under Olympics section. Thank you. Quantplinus (talk) 07:20, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please add more staff information