Talk:Alan (given name)

message: Where is Alan mentioned in the Bible? Proverbs 16:20 ... I don't think so. In what way is it "linked" to this biblical passage? -- 194.165.174.176, 7 April 2006.
: The passage reads "He who give heed to the word will prosper, and happy is he who trust in the lord." If 68.190.61.187 (talk) has evidence, they can restore it with citation. Hu 00:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proverbs 

message: "possibly means either "little rock" or "handsome" in Breton (Brittany), and "harmony" in some Celtic languages."
Should probably say "and 'harmony' in some other Celtic languages." since Breton is a Celtic language... --Thegooseking (talk) 15:15, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breton? 

message: There have been many Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants to America from old Imperial Russia and the Soviet states that have the name Alan (Woody Allen or Allen Ginsberg), but they also have names like Harvey (Harvey Milk), Edward (Edward G. Robinson), Barry (Barry Goldwater), Howard (Howard Stern), Bernard (Bernard Goldberg), Ashley (Ashley Montague) (etc.) like all other old popular Gentile names (many of which are no longer popular among Gentiles), which was a tactic of assimilation to English speaking society, not an indicator of ethnicity from the homeland.  The postulation that a Caucasian tribe which accompanied the Vandals to Iberia and possibly Africa, is a conveniently self-serving logical fallacy which tries to reconcile East European, often Jewish bearers of the surname, with a genetic heritage in the West which didn't exist.  Brittany's only Age of Migrations tribes other than a Celtic type, were Saxons (Saxon Shore) and Franks (Marches of Neustria).  There is a possible influence of the Visigoths (Visigothic Kingdom) from Aquitaine, but this would have been later, after conditions had settled and people who then knew themselves as French, would intermarry with those of other regions.  The Visigoths in Spain would have intermarried with the Vandals there, which might include this Caucasian tribe, but not on the level of a migration-settlement in France, as the Visigoths, Vandals and compatriots mostly passed through Occitan or Provence along the Riviera, on their way to Iberia and Africa, not the l'Oil region of northern France and the English Channel, which has a separate cultural history.  Because there was no permanent settlement in France of the Vandals and their friends, but a point-by-point wagon train kind of movement, marching through, there is no reason to assume they had any legacy in Gaul otherwise.  Only the Visigoths, if at all, contributed something, of those whose ultimate destination (as with the Suevi) was Spain.  Their longest lasting addition to France, was the Marca Hispanica, as everywhere else in France, the Franks ruled, with less a firm hand in Burgundy, although the Burgundians were to eventually lose ethnic identity in the high middle ages.
In addition, the Bretons were fiercely proud of their classical Roman and Celtic heritage.  They resisted all attempts at assimilating into foreign, i.e. barbarian culture.  Names of the Celts were almost always either Celtic, Greco-Roman (especially saints' names) or Biblical...until the high middle ages when Frankish names (such as Roland and Raoul) were adopted, mostly around the marches, such as at Rennes, Nantes, Vannes, Redon and Vitré.  In England, Bretons adopted Anglo-Saxon names, but in both France and England, or any other place their Norman neighbours invited them to share in their spoils (Sicily and the Levant were also Norman), the Bretons more often than not, introduced their own names to new locations.  Another thing too, is that Alan was adopted by the Bretons through a church source.  A bishop of Quimper shared a similar name to a bishop of Lavaur, but the Vandals and their ilk were never Catholic.  It is extremely unlikely a bishop would be named for a barbarian and that the Bretons would furthermore adopt such a name.  True, members of the Latin church have held pagan Greek and Roman names and even were to adopt Germanic names after the time of Clovis, Charlemagne's ancestor St. Arnulf of Metz a notable fellow in this regard.  These were all Catholics and it is not even clear that the "Alans" were Christian, but if any of them were, they'd be Arian "heretics"--hardly the choice for a Roman Catholic saint name so popular among the Bretons.  The Bretons, their Welsh and Cornish cousins were notorious "separatists", in that they refused to have discourse with their Germanic conquerors.  Even 700 years after the Saxons took over Roman Britain, they made a point of naming their Dukes after King Arthur in defiance of any barbarian foreigner.  The "Alans" may have been an element in Spain and North Africa, but would have been even more distant than the Saxons and Franks were to the Bretons.  Apparently, the only true bearers of the name "Alan" as it descends from the tribe, are Spanish hounds.  These are obviously not people and Alan is not even a Spanish name.  Back to the Bretons though...it is a far cry from reality that the Sarmatian myth of King Arthur would have proof in a contrived theory of them being the source of this name in Brittany.  As far as post-modern fantasies go, this one really reaches through convolution, grasping for straws.  Armorica and Brittany as well as Great Britain, have had significant relations with Germania, but Scythia?  Now that's just foolish.  It's more Aryan race osmosis gibberish.  People have tried to tie "Alans" with "Aryans".  How many more lies are being manufactured and peddled by the self deluded to the self deluded, when Occam's Razor is already available?
:Besides the given facts of an original Breton form of Alan, it cannot be denied that the name Alan was also introduced, at least for the ruling class, by the nobility accompanying William_I_of_England during the Norman invasion.
Alandeus (talk) 06:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Those were Bretons, not Normans, but they fought on the same side and were loyal to William, receiving estates in England as a consequence.  There is no connection between Brittany and Ossetia, whatsoever and there is no way to prove such a speculation.  Catterick (talk) 12:19, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Catterick, didn't you check the reference Alans#Migration to Gaul? That is where the connection can be found. I don't think this is speculation. As for the name used in Ossetia, check out for example: http://www.georgiatimes.info/en/articles/11035.html and http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5439648.ece. The entries concerning the Alans/Ossetia and northern France therefore ought to be reinstated. Alandeus (talk) 13:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you never read false cognate?  You've also obviously not got anything to dismiss the immense refutation of your claims written above.  Madog 13:37, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The case of false cognates is interesting. Precisely for this reason, the various roots of the name Alan ought to be included. Are only the ancient roots from the British islands to be presented? Ought not the presented, traceable import via the Normans, Armorica, and the Caucasus region be mentioned as well? Today's use of the name is likely to be a blend of both sources. And why should only English languages be listed where this name is used? Alandeus (talk) 08:53, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barbarian tribal myth 

message: the name Alan also has kurdish origins, some information on this can be found here:  --78.48.47.31 (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a wiki, and thus not a reliable source. This link  is used within the article at the moment, but I don't this qualifies either. For Alan it just says: "Alan is an Iranian-Kurdish Masculine name". Surely there must be a better reference that that.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 10:50, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kurdish origins 

message: This link , which cites Random House Dictionary, states that Alan is derived from a Celtic word meaning "harmony". I hate how this statement is so vague, and it doesn't give the actual Celtic word. Maybe someone can dig up more on it? I wonder if this etymology is really the same as one Harrison gave - from the Irish álainn (SG àlainn). In modern dictionaries, this Gaelic word translates into English as "beautiful" (and "nice", "lovely", "scenic" ), but Harrison actually gives the following as the meaning: "bright", "fair", "handsome". Maybe the Random House Dictionary also refers to the same Gaelic word, and they just decided to describe álainn in a different way. I'm not sure, but seeing how "beautiful", "nice", "lovely", and "scenic" can drift into "bright" and "fair" makes me wonder if "harmony" is just another way of explaining the same Gaelic word.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 11:14, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Celtic etymology -  "harmony" 

message: I'd like to propose that the section List of people with the name should be removed. It's pointless as it will never be complete and will soon get very dull if it expands too much. There are over 3000 pages on Wikipedia with 'Alan' in the title alone.  Obscurasky (talk) 14:04, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree (but not because I wouldn't be included anyway.) Alandeus (talk) 09:19, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

text: Agree.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 10:48, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

text: Thanks for that Obscurasky (talk) 16:25, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of people with the name