Talk:Ichigo Kurosaki/Archive 1

message: Does part of this page warrant a  warning? Since I'm not familiar with the series, I have no clue. --Mairi 04:55, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: tagged with spoiler now.--Mitsukai 18:20, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler? 

message: When he was transformed into a Shinigami by Rukia, he was using Rukia's power to become a shinigami, but he still manifested his OWN SWORD. Meaning that Zangetsu was already in his sealed form. Many people state that "We've never seen Ichigo's sealed form. The one he carried in the beginning was Rukia's blade, and when he transformed into a Shinigami, it was already in Shikai" or some randomness like that. Untrue. As such, I am reverting the edits by 138.88.27.207. -- Hobbeslover 03:06, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Or, you know, it could just be that it was a larger form of the normal crossguard that almost everyone has... speculation. --tjstrf 16:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: It's clearly in appearance Sode no Shirayuki, yes, as all zanpakutou have unique tsuba... however, it's also unusually large, therefore indicating that it IS Ichigo's own powers being used and not just borrowed from Rukia...  So one might say that effectively Ichigo is channeling his own powers through or by means of the borrowed powers from Rukia, and so the zanpakutou is, as a friend of mine once put it, "Zangetsu hiding in Sode no Shirayuki". --ACDragonMaster 02:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: One theory I heard in the forums a while age was that when Ichigo faced the menos grande, he seemed to have unconscioulsy fired a getsuga tenshou or something similar. This would be the only time he would used Zangetsu's powers through Rukia's sword and could have been part of the reason why the sword started deforming right after. Anyway that doesn't matter. Facts seem to point to the fact that the huge sword is just a super-sized version of Rukia's and the only time any aspect of Zangetsu was manifested would be during the menos grande battle. Gdo01 02:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm... don't have access to the anime of that ep, but in the manga, all I see is in chaper 49, Ichigo blocks the menos' attack, and then deflects it back at it.  But it doesn't appear to be a shot made of his own energy. --ACDragonMaster 09:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Reiatsu is simply the term for the manifested force of a shinigami's power.  "spirit presure" is the litteral translation of the kanji, it's the pressure or force of a shinigami's power.  If his reiatsu was powering the sword, then his inherent spiritual energy was powering the sword. --ACDragonMaster 20:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Though as far as that goes, possibly worth mentioning that in the title page for chapter 1, the sword in Ichigo's hand does NOT have the same tsuba as Rukia's/his in the first part of the story.  It has some similar markings, but is still noticably different. --ACDragonMaster 21:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, Ichigo's sword still was the same size (and had the same hilt design) after he was operating on his own powers, using zangetsu. So the statement that his unreleased sword was giant holds true regardless of what the plothole means exactly. --tjstrf 23:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where do you get that?  I mean, his sword is cleaved apart and then Rukia's powers removed from him by Byakuya, and then when we next see him, using the sword under his own power, is when training with Urahara, at which point Zangetsu assumes the released state that it then has stayed in to date in the storyline. --ACDragonMaster 09:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Prior to his permanent assumption of the shikai form, he was using the remnants of his previous sword. At the time, he no longer possessed Rukia's shinigami powers, and was drawing on his own. (chapter 64, pages 12-13 shows this for the first time) Additionally, Zangetsu explicitly refered to the sword Ichigo was drawing directly prior to that scene as "me" (chapter 64, page 1). If Zangetsu calls Ichigo's giant unreleased sword "me", I believe that is sufficient canonical confirmation that, regardless of artistic plotholes, it was intended to be Ichigo's sword. --tjstrf Now on editor review! 10:07, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I'd guessed you were probably refering to that.  The thing is, we never actually see the tsuba of the sword that Ichigo is drawing in Zangetsu's presence.  As for the sword he carries on the later pages in that chapter, that's simply the leftover physical remnants, which is then cleaved to pieces by Urahara's Benihime until Ichigo actually calls on Zangetsu and releases his own zanpakutou to shikai.  Which he then never seals.  Those physical remnants seem rather like a leftover shell and nothing more at that point. --ACDragonMaster 10:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Note Urahara's speech when he was slicing up that sword. He stated something along the lines that the sword was only a shell, there was no reiatsu in it and that's why he was able to casually cut through it like butter. Gdo01 01:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But he also says it's Ichigo's sword, and the comment is more about his lack of control of it's power rather than any question of who's sword it is.  As well, when Ichigo finds the blade in the boxes, Zangetsu says 'you did well to find me', and 'Pull me out already!'  Although you can't see the guard in the box, you can clearly see the handle is identical to his original sword, and nothing like the unsealed form.  Now again, this is anime so maybe the manga is different, but it the anime it is quite clear that even his original sword was Zangetsu not Rukia's (unless perhaps Zangetsu was originally Rukia's blade, and she got a new one when she recovered).  Derekloffin 20:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

text: It's an art error. --tjstrf talk 22:40, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ichigo's Sword 

message: 172.156.23.181, where are you getting the info you put into pages? I don't mean just this one, but all Bleach pages. It seems totally out there, and I've never encountered much of it. For instance, Ichigo's name means literally 'one protect', he was named that way because his father wanted him to protect one thing in life, or something like that. It's not a pun, unless you consider names like Victor or Michael puns too. And it can't be translated as Black Cape 15. Also the info about Renji and Byakuya and other seems quite unlike Bleach. Please say where you got it. -- Ynhockey 01:26, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure they ever said he actually killed the old captain, but knowing Kenpachi's bloodlust, I don't think any other outcome is likely. Also, consider the hollow as a split personality inhabiting the same body. While he obviously wants to overcome the real Ichigo, (Begin random non-encyclopedic theorizing) he also supports Ichigo's growing stronger, at least as far as combat is concerned, because it will make him stronger as well. Even without that, it is definitely not in his best interests for Ichigo to ever lose. Also, since the other Vizard seem to be in control of themselves, or at least not completely submitted to instinct, the inner hollow may be capable of working cooperatively with the true person. After all, when Ichigo is fighting with his hollow, neither Ichigo or the hollow is able to do anything else. --Tjstrf 06:51, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The latest chapter, 217, confirms that the white Ichigo is actually his inner hollow. This chapter ends with the Vizards sending him to have another inner fight with the white Ichigo, saying that he needs to consume the inner hollow before it consumes him. — TheBenignBovine| (talk) 06:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

text: In the latest chapters one of the vizards call Ichigo berry-chan or berry-tan. Just wanted to point out. --Chemicalist 22:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia etc. 

message: In light of recent edits, I've come to realize that I don't remember actually Ichigo ever calling Zangetsu 'old man'. Instead, 'ossan' (uncle) was used. I haven't read the Japanese version of the older chapters though so it's hard to tell. But can anyone please verify if indeed both are used, or just ossan? I'll try to if I have time, but don't remember all the exact places where Zangetsu appears. -- Ynhockey 17:42, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's how Lunar Anime translated it in the anime when they were still subbing Bleach.--Chemicalist 22:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to be careful here, because 'ossan' is a short hand. 'ojisan' can mean 'uncle' (also used for middle-aged men and family figures) while 'Ojiisan' can mean 'grandfather' (although it is also used out of respect for the elderly). It is the same with the female variant 'obasan'. 'Ossan' doesn't have the distinction between the two (the length of the I sound), so it could mean either.
Sam 10:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncle/Old man 

message: This was under Ichigo's Family. We've seen a few things in the manga and anime that would disprove this. During Byakuya's monologue about his promise to Hisana, he says he visited his parent's grave. Also, I think its stated that letting people from Rukongai into the Kuchiki family was against the rules. Since all souls go to Rukongai after they die, shinigamis must have been born to continue the lineage of these noble families. So, I'm taking out that sentence. TheBenignBovine 01:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think whoever wrote that may have meant that Ichigo was the first to be born to someone using a gigai.  Since shinigami are the ones that primarily use gigai, that may cause some of the confusion.  However, we have no proof that even that case is true (there's nothing to disprove it either) and I'm not sure how that could be worded, so ultimately I agree with your deletion.--み使い Mitsukai 15:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ichigo is first to be born to shinigami lineage? 

message: Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe Kuchiki-taicho was only making reference to its color, not actually giving it a different name, as "during bankai, it is in a modified form (as Byakuya Kuchiki notes), called Kuroi Getsuga (lit. Black Moon Fang), which was first used by his Hollow side" would imply. --AngelusInsomnus 15:02, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's actually likely, we should probably wait until the anime reaches the part where they show Ichigo vs. Grim Jaw to see if the blast is black there too. If so, we should change it; otherwise, I don't really care. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 18:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's gonna take a hella long time, lol. Look at Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou in chapter 219 pages 12; Ichigo's was black and he was in control. Same goes against Grimjaw. Surely the color black in a black-and-white environment can't translate to light blue in the colored environment of the anime? =P Meh, I don't really care myself though. --Chemicalist 22:36, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kuroi Getsuga 

message: I've noticed that this article is edited frequently and controlled little, and as all other such articles, turns into a mess every few weeks and needs to be copyedited. The structure of the article is also outdated and no one is bold enough to organize it. To fix the situation, I suggest taking the following steps:
#Organizing the article now into more logical sections (e.g. outline, history, synopsis, abilities) like all other Bleach characters.
#Agreeing on standardization of terms (see also: Talk:Bleach (manga) and using them consistently.
#Constantly watching the article for edits as if it were protected, and immediately reverting any sub-par edits. Any new useful info that's edit should be integrated into the article after the revert (or instead of the revert there should be a copyedit), but we all know that such info is added rarely.
For my part, I will try to organize the article today or tomorrow, but would like to hear opinions about how it should be organized.
-- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 19:51, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, all new information should be added as soon as it is revealed, although preferrably by editors who know the standards for the Bleach-related articles on Wikipedia. I agree that Ichigo's family should somehow be integrated into the outline, which I'll try to do today, after making a history/synopsis section. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 11:32, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frequent edits 

message: I'm writing this under a new heading so that hopefully it will get noticed. When editing this article, please keep the following in mind:
*The synopsis is only about Ichigo, not about Orihime, Yami or anyone. If an action is not directly related to Ichigo (such as Yami firing a cero blast), it probably shouldn't be here.
*Article size - not that we're close to the limit, but the synopsis is much longer than it should be, so if something can be said with fewer words, it should.
*English grammar and style - namely, if all sentences in a paragraph are in present tense, there shouldn't be one odd sentence in past tense.
I think that's all for now, I'll go trim the newly added info.
-- Y Ynhockey (Talk) Y 19:33, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll just apologize on here for my spelling issues: I have occasions when I just forget how to spell, so sorry. -- Makaio 20:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synopsis 2 

message: I was going to tag this article for cleanup because the 'synopsis' section isn't really much of a synopsis is it?
synopsis: A brief outline or general view, as of a subject or written work; an abstract or a summary.
Giving an extremely detailed account of what happens in each arc no longer classifies as a summary. I think we can all agree that the Manga subsection is not brief. I suggest either taking out some of the extraneous information or start a new article detailing just the plot of Bleach. Pzerimars 13:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that this isn't good as a summary, that's why I posted all the above about trimming it. I have already trimmed a lot if you look at my edits, but no one is able to decide (and be bold) on what other things to remove. Also, make no mistake, this isn't a section on the plot of Bleach, it's about Ichigo's involvement in Bleach, which happens to be almost universal unfortunately. --  Ynhockey (Talk) 10:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just a thought 

message: The Character Outline includes a lot of info about the Kurosaki family. Only the first two paragraphs are specifically about Ichigo's characteristics. There's so much info it could be under its own heading. The 2nd to last paragraph seems out of place. IMO it could be moved to the Zangetsu section, which is more about Ichigo's power.- 71.212.2.68 23:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character Outline 

message: I am going through the article section by section and trimming out bits which seem to be irrelevant to Ichigo personally. I would appreciate any help other editors could offer towards this end. In addition, since I am prone to comma splicing and writing in the passive voice, don't feel guilty if you tear apart my writing stylistically, I probably deserved it. --tjstrf 23:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section by section trimming 

message: Just to add in my two cents with the synopsis being toooooo big problem. It seems to be more of a summary of the Bleach storyline than of the part Ichigo plays in it. For the manga section which happens after the bount arc, I think there should only be 4 paragraphs FOR NOW. 
*The first paragraph should describe Ichigo's first fight with Grimmjaw (how 4 getsuga tensho's release his hollow and other details included)
*the second should focus on how he he finally gets his hollow under control (how he trains with vizards and fights his inner hollow and how the outside body starts transforming into a hollow, etc), 
*the third should focus on his second fight with Grimmjaw
*the fourth should only have one to two lines about Ichigo going to Hueco Mundo to rescue Orihime. Of course this can be further expanded as the story goes on. And all the stuff about Orihime having only 12 hours to say goodbye, and the whole thing about how and why Soul Society won't help with the whole scene of what happens when captain yamato says that Soul Society won't get involved needs to be deleted as its unimportant. All you need to state is that Ichigo, Chad and Ishida are going to Hueco Mundo to rescue a captured Orihime. That's it. -- Noman953
:You forgot about Shinji's appearance, and his fight with Yammy (can be dealt with in a single sentence). Also, I would suggest we create a section on Hollow Ichigo as a character. --tjstrf 20:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I completely agree. Also that a new section on Hollow Ichigo should be created. I have tried, but to no avail as people keep deleting for reasons I don't understand as everything I add is more or less valid. -- Armuk 19:49, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synopsis 3 

message: I can't remember who it was, but someone called Ichigo's name 'cute', to which he responded that it was 'ichi' for first place and 'go' for guardian angel so there was nothing cute about it. It was either in the Soul Society or Bounto arc in the anime.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sam Ann (talk • contribs) 10:32, September 14, 2006  (UTC)
---Ichigo means Strawberry in Japanese :)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 149.150.236.224 (talk • contribs) 02:55, September 28, 2006  (UTC)
::Yeah, I remember that too, but I'm not sure who it was.  I'm pretty sure it was before he encountered Ikkaku, because I remember thinking... "oh, Ikkaku likes his name, unlike that other guy."  But I might be wrong. --Anaraug 04:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The word parts "Ichi" and "Go" have several meanings. The true meaning is the guardian meaning he told Jidanbo, but it's also a themed match with his sister's names, which are also homonyms for fruit, and additionally punned with 1-5 (fifteen) for jokes and references. --tjstrf talk 22:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ichigo's name 

message: Captain level. what's up with that? does captain level imply people who've become captains or people who've acquired bankai? in that case i guess Renji and the bald guy are captains too huh. if you ask me the term's too vague and you can't categorize Ichigo in it. he's definitly stronger than those two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.108.56.182 (talk • contribs) 
:You didn't have to scrap the whole paragraph. The sentence used to say "high-level" shinigami until another ip changed it. Gdo01 21:41, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Hey. Who's been messing with the powers section. If you read the whole thing it doesn't flow consistently. And I agree, you can't call Ichigo a captain since we don't know what that term entails. I'm surprised we have a picture of his hollow here but still no character page for either zangetsu or his inner hollow and I'm not about to spend an hour making those pages again just to have people delete them all over again but it would be nice if wikipedia had pages for 'all' bleach characters as a good "encyclopedia" should-- Noman953
"Captain-level" refers to shinigami (or other characters) whose combat ability is on par with the captains of the Gotei 13. They do not have to be captains, otherwise we would simply refer to them as captains and drop the "-level" from the description. Examples of captain-level characters would be Ichigo, Ishida, Renji, Isshin, the Espada, people who actually are captains such as Soifon and Kenpachi, etc. It doesn't necessarily require you to learn bankai, Kenpachi is a captain and doesn't have one. That part of the phrasing has been worked over repeatedly, actually. When I initially wrote that phrase, it simply read "Ichigo's power as a shinigami is unquestionable". This was later discarded as too vague, and replaced with "Ichigo is a high-level shinigami", which in turn gave way to "Ichigo is a captain-level" shinigami. Good move on the images of Ichigo's inner hollow btw. --tjstrf Now on editor review! 00:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Think a picture of that full hollow state would be good, or would that just be clogging the section too much? Nemu 00:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not necessary yet. If that form becomes recurring, yes, but if it just turns out to be a one-shot deal then there's no point. --tjstrf Now on editor review! 00:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Not really, I think it counts as pure force. Remember, Byakuya's blade is made up of tiny Senbonzakura petals, so I think with pure force, it could be broken. About the Tensa Zangetsu being broken, well, since it isn't the true sword it could be broken,yes?--Hanaichi 02:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Powers 

message: Oh God no, its happening again. Once again this page is becoming a summary for the entire Bleach story rather than just Ichigo's part. I understand its 90% Ichigo's story but that doesn't mean you need to include unnecessary stuff. The Hueco Mundo arc can be put in one simple line Ichigo and friends depart to rescue Orihime meet Nell and whatever they are and then meet Rukai and Renji. Remember you don't have to include every single detail possible like that fight with the sand hollow. just include important stuff so the article can grow steadily as the manga progresses not exponentionally. PS: I think its high time we put in a plot summary section for the whole Bleach story where all you diehards can make the story as detailed as you want it to be but for Ichigo's character page please only include important details -- Noman953
:I agree. The amount of the story that's retold here is just horridly unnecessary, and the wording is diverging a lot from that which an encyclopedia should use. A "storyline" section is not really necessary for a character page, and if it does, it should be a short, workable summary. I know they're not exactly comparable stories, but look at Link (The Legend of Zelda)'s article versus Ganon's for an example of what I mean. Whereas the former, notably a featured article, takes a summary-oriented approach, the amount of the storyline written out on the latter (non-FA) is ridiculous. -- Digital Watches! 22:35, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seem's like it has happened again. I think the amount of detail here is a tad too much for a character profile. SirMeh 16:22, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ichigo's story NOT a Plot Summary 

message: Can someone get an official source for Ichigo's birthday. I know that an early scanlation said July 7 but later ones have consistently said July 15. If an official Japanese source could be found, this would solve the problem. Gdo01 23:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It says July 15th on his character bio page. Check the RAW. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:57, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthday 

message: Originally I thought the slow transformation was just a one time deal to overdramatize his shift from shikai to bankai but now I saw the exact same thing happen in the Kariya fight. I figured I might as well add it in the bankai section since its not stated. Check out para 2 on bankai to see what I wrote. Also its time we did some trimming or something in the talk page. Most of these topics are no longer being discussed and so they need to go because its getting too long--Noman953 15:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't delete anything from talk pages. What you can do is archive it, but this page isn't long enough to archive yet. As for the paragraph you wrote, I will look at it now. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 21:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

text: It should also be noted that you should use initial/final release as opposed to shikai/bankai, at least until the dub catches up to that point. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 21:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transformation 

message: I don't know if there is a place to put this... but I think that there was an appearance by his inner hollow one even before his training with Urahara.
In Ichigo's initial fight with Renji, he was soundly whooped, and left on the ground, unable to fight.  Suddenly, his reiatsu spiked up, and he was in perfect fighting shape, even better than before.  He could move faster, hit harder, becoming even stronger than he could register, telling Renji he was "moving really slow all of a sudden."
Another thing that is commonly overlooked, is that Ichigo's face also looks different.  He seems to be enjoying the raw adrenaline of the fight, taking enjoyment in fighting more than usual, laughing and taking on an almost sinister appearance.  I think that, like his inner shinigami powers that were awakened by Rukia's, that his hollow powers were awakened as well, in that moment when he was so close to death.  Similarly, his hollow awoke in the fight with Byakuya when he was pushed to his limit, Kariya (in the anime) when he was reaching his limit (although this was only a slight flicker of his Hollow's conciousness), and against Yammy and co (in the manga), barely able to hold it back when he was hurt.  It all fits.  Anyone agree? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.95.1.115 (talk) 05:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That was just the reiatsu pump-up like he used to fight against the Menos. His inner hollow didn't exist yet. --tjstrf talk 05:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  First appearance of Ichigo's innher hollow 

message: Where did it show that Al Pacino is Ichigo's favorite actor?
:Volume 1 compilation -> chapter 7 -> page 22. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 00:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Al Pacino is Ichigo's favorite actor? 

message: The segment in this page about Zangetsu features this quote: "Unlike those of most shinigami, who can seal their zanpakutō after releasing it, Ichigo's zanpakutō is always in its initial release state like the zanpakutō of Kenpachi Zaraki, likely due to the fact that both men possess unusually large amounts of spiritual energy."  This is inaccurate, because Zaraki never sealed his Zanpaku-to or learned its name to begin with, it's just a very powerful unreleased sword.  Ichigo's is on release at all times because he cannot surpress his energy that far, which is accurate, but to equate it to Zaraki's in wrong.  Anyone agree?
72.95.15.68 04:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We thought this as well until evidence was provided from the Official Character Book clearly stating that Zaraki's sword is constantly released, in the same way as Ichigo's Zangetsu. I believe the discussion was at Talk:Kenpachi Zaraki. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 11:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zangetsu/Zaraki 

message: Seen this edit many times now, one way other the other, and I figure it deserves it's own topic here.  Now, I've never edited this personally, but I'm curious why the two days edits are being undone.  Yes, the normal process was supposed to take 3 days, but the anime at least made a big deal of Ichigo having only 2 days to do it since Rukia's execution was moved up.  So, is this coming purely from the anime (in which case it probably should be noted as such), is it some technical reasoning (again should be noted in that case), or what? Derekloffin 01:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IIRC it took Ichigo 2.5 days to train with the doll towards the final release. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 02:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yn recalls correctly. But since days are counted inclusively, 2 and any fraction of a third day is counted as three days. In this case "3 days training" is not the same as "72 hours training", but rather means "training across the span of 3 solar cycles". --tjstrf talk 02:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Days/Three Days 

message: Earlier in the Zaraki Kenpachi discussion page(Back before headers were being used) editers made mention of a page in the official character book "Souls" which describes the "Constant-Released Type" Shinigami Which includes Ichigo and Zaraki. An unregistered user posted a picture for page 258 which no longer works I was wondering if someone could post another scan of that page. --Bushido Brown 07:33, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Constant-Shikai Type 

message: I just noticed that the only Ichigo related picture we don't have is of his true hollow form. Though I am against cluttering this page with too many pictures, I wanna know if any of you think we should have it to give viewers the best info possibe. But then again, it was only a partial transformation so I don't think it'll be a big deal if we choose not to have it. But I am eager to hear what you guys have to say.--Noman953 21:00, 17 Febuary
:Only if it becomes a recurring state. --tjstrf talk 00:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm willing to wait until we have an anime image from the new arc. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 12:27, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have uploaded this image showing Ichigo in mask form.What do you think of it? :Image:Ichigo_Masked.jpg--Hanaichi 12:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do we need a Hollow Picture? 

message: Ichigo's zanpakutō is always in its initial release state like the zanpakutō of Kenpachi Zaraki,(taken from article)
Thats not true kenpachi has not even learned the name of his zanpakutō so how could his sword be in its first release state. How could they be anthing alike? Rocks Lotus 00:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: for a while Ichigo didn't know the name of his zanpakutō like kenpachi and i think they even said at one time the Kenpachi's zanpakutō was always in its released state even though he didn't know its name NekrosKoma 00:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But Ichigo was not able to use his initial release till he learn his zanpakutō name its the same for all shinigami and i cant remeber the anime or manga stating that kenpachi's zanpakutō was in its first release state(i may be wrong but im pretty sure im not). Rocks Lotus 02:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: no ichigo had his initial release and used the getsuga tenshō on Urahara (cutting his hat in half) with out even knowing Zangetsu's name and that the attack he just used was the getsuga tenshō, the first time Zangetsu told Ichigo his name in the manga it was censored while in the anime the audience heard it but Ichigo did not NekrosKoma 15:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that attack was Getsuga Tenshou, for one, it wasn't blue but a blue a white and it didn't actually shoot out that kinda reiatsu. Another thing is the sealed zanpakuto cannot use any kind of reiatsu attack, they are "big fluffy things shaped like swords" when they aren't released according to Urahara (ReshenKusaga 00:52, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was referring more to the manga than the anime, all Ichigos sword is in its sealed state before training with Urahara is a broken hilt thats why he had to train with Urahara to release his zanpakuto, but either way once Ichigo got his black cleaver he has never released it in any way (during Urahara's training or the fight with Kenpachi when he learned Zangetsu's name) in both cases its always been the black cleaver which is nothing like other Shinigami's sword in their sealed state, and if the cleaver is Ichigos sealed zanpakuto then that would mean he has never released his sword to use its initial release and the getsuga tenshō which he can only use with his sword released, yet he can use getsuga tenshō with a sealed zanpakuto? or that Zangetsu's sealed and initial release look the same yet Ichigo has never used the usual phrase that shinigami use to activate their initial release NekrosKoma 03:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When Ichigo fought Kenpachi he already new Zangetsu's name all he learned was a few key things about him like how he does not like rain and so forth. Even thou it is not said, when he is training with Urahara and makes his initial release to his current Zanpakutō, in the manga Zangetsu say's "my name is" clearly telling Ichigo his name. Just becuase we dont see it written there doesent mean it didnt happen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rocks Lotus (talk • contribs) 09:43, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

text: It's an official Bleach character book, released ages ago. I think the RAW can be found at Bleach7 dot com. A scanlation is not available as of yet. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 09:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough if it says it in the databook i wont argue with you. Rocks Lotus 09:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Just because no one pays attention doesn't mean they agree. There's no telling if the ability is unique. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ichigo's zanpakutō 

message: I strongly disagree that he is 'well above' captain-level. Not only did he not beat Byakuya or Kenpachi (even though they admitted defeat, he was actually incapable of combat after their fights, as were they, signifying a draw), he also arguably got weaker after the Soul Society arc (see the entire part about his resolve). Also, while Kenpachi beat Tōsen (and we're assuming he can also beat Komamura, although that has not been proven), we do not know whether he is even in the top half of the captains. Some final releases may be too much for him. Byakuya is a comparatively young captain, implying that he is not one of the strongest (although this is also speculation). Even though Ichigo's strength has been buffed up with the vizard training, it is still complete speculation in my opinion to say that he has 'well above' captain-level fighting capabilities. Moreover, there is no single captain level, and Ichigo is clearly not at the level of Aizen or Yamamoto. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: More than likely he was at least partially healed by Orihime. Keep in mind that she didn't have the same mastery of her time reversal powers then as she does now, so it would've taken a really long time to fully heal him. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 08:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: More like something about the ability to reverse God's plans or somesuch.  But that's beyond the scope of this discussion. -- Seraphchoir 19:41, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ichigo's strength 

message: When you first see Ichigo's Inner hollow take control, it is missing half of its mask, which is normally what Arcannar are missing. The Lack of a Sealed hollow Zanpakto is confusing, but it could be that it is constantly released and his arm stretching (which you see in the Anime when he fires the Black Moon Fang while Flipping) is actully the Hollow part he sealed. However, I have not seen the Vizard eposiodes so I am not sure if it is broken while he is fighting it on the inner side, however, his hollow destroys a fully trained Vizard, and almost kills her, then requires constant switching of the group to avoid anyone dieing. He is also missing a Hollow hole, meaning it could have moved to some other place to hide. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.175.205.251 (talk) 18:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Arrancar are entirely different. What you suggest is impossible. First off, his inner hollow never removes its mask because it doesn't have one. Second, Ichigo's partial mask was grown on, not partially ripped off. Third, the cartoony arm stretching is just a special effect. Finally, Ichigo's ability to nearly kill a vizard in rage is pure power and nothing else. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 18:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inner Hollow an Arrcannar? 

message: In the manga does it ever really say what level (Gillian,Ajuchas,or VastoLorde) Ichigo's hollow is? I mean it has a human form in his inner world, and it looks human-like when he takes over Ichigo's physical self, while Ichigo is fighting for control in his inner world, so I think its a VastoLorde. Then again he did get thrashed by Ulquiorra who's only the 4th arrancar so I don't really know. Ideas? Rin The Red
:It's just a hollow. Menos are many hollows in one. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That may have been true at the beginning of the series, but I smell a retcon towards any sufficiently powerful individual hollow counting into the menos classes now. (Speculation, I know.) --tjstrf talk  07:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's already implied to a degree, but that's a stretch and ultimately speculation. I agree that it will likely be retconned though. Sephiroth BCR 07:30, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hollow Level 

message: With the latest pair of episodes, we have a new set of potential images for use in illustrating Ichigo's hollow transformation as substitutes for :Image:Ichigo's Inner Hollow.jpg. I have taken the liberty of making 3 new versions of that image, and would like input as to which people believe does the best job of illustrating the section.
Our options are:
*Revision 1, white Hollow Ichigo grinning as top panel with half-masked berserk Ichigo. (Taken from Episodes 123 and 59, respectively.)
*Revision 2, white Hollow Ichigo grinning as top panel with partially transformed Ichigo. (Taken from Episodes 123 and 124, respectively.)
*Revision 3, Hollow Ichigo grinning as top panel with half-masked berserk Ichigo AND partially transformed Ichigo. (Taken from Episodes 123, 59, and 124, respectively.)
*The existing image.
I can personally think of reasons for using any of the versions, and as I have no particular preference between them decided I might as well ask for outside input. (If forced to pick, I support Revision 2.) --tjstrf talk  08:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 3 doesn't work, though I uploaded one that seems to match partially. A grinning one is necessary to illustrate that line about its grin. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Scratch that, fixed link. Three in one seems excessive, as its not illustrating much more. When a good shot of just his full mask comes, that should be added in place of the berserk hollow. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh, whatever works. I think they did a worse job of drawing him in the upper panel of the version you uploaded though. It's true that smirking isn't quite the same as grinning, but if you want the mad grin then wouldn't revision 1 work? --tjstrf talk  08:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Grinning one in place. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Three becomes too large and looks clunky. After we get a good picture of Ichigo with just his hollow mask (likely during the next Grimmjow fight), it should replace the berserk hollow picture. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image options 

message: I just noticed we don't have any pictures of Hollow ichigo with just the mask and nothing else.It's no big deal,I just thought we should,I would but I'm new here and have no idea how to.Burning pheonix 21:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A picture of  hollow Ichigo with the mask only 

message: I believe when the page was updated to reflect the events of Chapter 272, "disengage" was used to describe what happened to Ichigo as his appearance and sword changed from bankai to shikai.
I thought "disappear" was more appropriate, so I used that word instead of "disengage."
Someguy0830 then edited the page, using "shatter" in place of "disappear."
The current version uses "disengage." It's a really minor point, but as I explained in my edit, "disengage" subtly connotes a voluntary decision. That is, the user chooses to revert his sword into the standard state; he disengaged it.
By contrast, both "disappear" and "shatter" indicate that the change was involuntary. Ichigo's appearance has reverted back to his regular state without his approval.
We should use either "disappear" or "shatter."Erik-the-red 00:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Be bold. Sephiroth BCR 00:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the reminder. I've changed "disengage" to "disappear" and "return" to "revert."Erik-the-red 13:25, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  we can change or keep the word depending on what the dub saysEvxyza92 07:14, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disengage, disappear, shatter? 

message: Hm...it has been bothering me for awhile...O_O
Is it true that his hollow's seiyuu is also Masakazu Morita? O,o Coz, if it was...wow, Morita-san is talented. XD
Plus...O_O I can't help it...it's really bothering me. -- 伝説のリヂヤちゃん 03:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hollow Ichigo's voice sounds rather synthesized to me, so it's quite possible that they just run Morita's voice through some computer distortion. Or that we're just missing a seiyu of course, but I think we would have noticed by now. --tjstrf talk 03:26, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hollow Ichigo's Voice... 

message: Couldnt Ichigo be a Vizard/Arrancar/Shinigami/Human?
I know it sounds long-winded and far-fetched, but the order of events seems to make this possible...
First he was born from a Shinigami father, followed by getting his zanpakto. Then he was trained by Urahara, which lead him to become a hollow, until he defeated it in his soul/mind. Sooo after that he unlocked the shikai state. This diagram should make this easier
Human/Shinigami->Shinigami(substitute)-> Hollow-> Shinigami.
Now arent Arrancar described as being Hollows then gaining Shinigami traits and powers?
And Vizard described as Shinigami gaining Hollow attributes?
Do you see my point yet? Chozen1 01:30, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You obviously haven't met Ishida and Orihime's half-Quincy/Vizard half-Arrancar/Time Warper son yet. --tjstrf talk 01:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  LOL at Ishida/Orihime Shipping. As for Ichigo he's was a human with plus powers and hes always had plus powers, he gained hollow abilities on top of his original plus powers which are doinant so he's still just a Vizard nothing "arrancar" about him. Bushido Brown 01:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? Ichigo has shinigami powers and hollow powers, not plus powers and hollow powers. The only cases of simple "plus" souls having powers (beyond simple spiritual awareness) that we've seen are Orihime and Chad. --tjstrf talk 02:24, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The biggest hybrid in Karakura Town 

message: I have been wondering what zangetsu is standing on when ichigo faces his inner hollow i believe that it it is the sword from ichigo's bankai i mean what would make sense we know he standing on a sword. It was always there and from listening to an episode when ichigo is training for bankai with zangetsu  he says that ichigo might have always known that he had the power of bankai  like how the sword is their but doesnt make such a presenceEvxyza92 02:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a giant nail. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

text: It's a pole coming out from the wall, like a flagpole or something. --tjstrf talk 02:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

text: go to this link and go to 7:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yJ9dAD9HGY now look at that and think is that a sword or a nail  now why would that flagpole show up in one place and now more than once  think zangetsu is standin on tensa zangetsuEvxyza92 02:32, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Despite what you "think", the fact is that it's nothing more than a pole or a giant nail. It doesn't have a hilt and it doesn't have a blade. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:35, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  but why would he stand on a giant nail and not just on the florr like ichigo and his hollow hwat makes that being tensa zangetsu so hard to believeEvxyza92 02:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because, and try to pay attention this time, it is not a sword. Get it? 02:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i have to ask though what makes that hard to believe and i'll put this to restEvxyza92 02:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because Tensa Zangetsu is a sword. A black one. It's sharp, and has a blade, and is not suitable for standing on. That pole is silver, and doesn't have a blade, and not sharp, and you can stand on it. How much clearer can we get? --tjstrf talk 02:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  okay then it is overEvxyza92 03:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  zangetsu is standing on tensa zangetsu 

message: there is some serious vandalism going on by random ip addresses, so we should probably keep this page semi-protected -_-
like for instance, a few minutes ago, some guy took to filling most of the page with repeated spam, so can we keep this page semi-protected indefinetly?
example: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ichigo_Kurosaki&oldid=141356367 
(ReshenKusaga 09:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection 

message: After reading the last two chapters (280, 281), I've noticed that Ichigo can assume his hollow form for greater extents of time. He assumed the form to block the gran rey cero, spoke with Orihime, then watched as Grim released and proceeded to fight him for a little bit and his mask still remained at the end of the chapter. I don't wanna assume anything, but it just seems like the limit has been extended. --Time2shyne 23:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like it, but we don't know for sure yet. Also, since both Ichigo and Grimmjow are really really fast, and the last few chapters have been chock full of dynamic motion panels, which take several pages per second, it may just be a case of slowed down presentation for dramatic effect. I wouldn't think he's had it on for more than 20 seconds at longest either way. --tjstrf talk 00:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. That whole spat could very well fit within 11 seconds. Until he says, "Wow, I've never held the mask for this long", 11 seconds can last a single chapter without us questioning it. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not trying to be rude, but I seriously don't see the logic in that. I see what you're trying to say, but it doesn't work. Try speaking all of the dialogue in chapter 281 alone out loud, not counting the fighting, and you'll see that it's goes on way longer than eleven seconds. Unless, you know, Grimmjow, Ichigo and Orihime speak at the speed of light.--Time2shyne 03:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to draw what are perhaps inappropriate comparisons, but do you remember how long it took Planet Namek to blow up? Longest 5 minutes in the history of ever. ~SnapperTo 03:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All of DBZ takes ten times longer than it should. Fact remains, Ichigo's limit is eleven seconds until someone says otherwise. Not "but it looks like it", says. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 03:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Time2, if you're in the middle of combat with a deadly enemy, you aren't going to be annunciating too well. Reading aloud takes far longer than speaking normally, and speaking normally takes far longer than really quickly barking out sentences while glancing over your shoulder to make sure you aren't being energy blasted. (Plus, superhuman speed probably means superhuman jaw movement speed as well.) --tjstrf talk 06:13, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ichigo has a reputation for trying to act cool, remember? Plus, if you look at the way he's speaking to Orihime, he's perfectly calm. Grimmjow's the one barking shit out... and Orihime is actually speaking slower than usual, seeing as how she's chopping up her sentences (or just his name in this case) when she addresses Ichigo. Anyway, Someguy 0830 is dead set on his little "says not looks" method for proof, so I'm not really gonna take this any further. Let's just wait and see what happens in the next chapter, and then we can take it from there.--Time2shyne 06:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There you go. Confirmed in chapter 282. The limit's been surpassed, and my educated guess was correct. Alterations to his powers section is in order.--Time2shyne 01:16, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, we all knew it was likely, but that's not the same as being correct. Now you can add it without being guilty of speculation. --tjstrf talk 01:25, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Like I said, the second someone says, "Hey, he held it for longer", it's ok to add it. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:34, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ichigo's hollow mask time limit 

message: In other words, removing topics that don't have to do with editing the article? --tjstrf talk 03:41, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 03:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we start enforcing NOTAFORUM now? 

message: Ichigo's "Powers" section was changed to "Power and abilities". I was going to revert it, but seeing as nobody has already done it, I'm not sure if people agree or not. Should it be changed back?--Time2shyne 16:39, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Something I've always wondered about that choice of name is what qualifies as a "power" and what qualifies as an "ability"? If there is no difference between the two or a character doesn't have both, I see no reason to use that specific title. ~SnapperTo 19:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When I punched "power" into Thesaurus.com, "ability" was the first to pop up, if that helps. Jezebel Parks 19:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Powers and abilities 

message: This has been bugging me for some time now. When Ichigo had beaten his inner hollow in the anime, it stated this as it was disappearing:
"If you really want to control my power, make sure you don't die before I show up again!"
Of course this could just be a mistranslation, something only stated in the anime or my own misinterpretation. However, the statement made by the hollow seems to imply that if Ichigo wants to fully control it, he has to wait until it fights him again. MastaFighta 19:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inner Hollow's Warning 

message: should we change it? Ultimaterasengan 17:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there any reason to? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 21:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I don't really care, but he looks butt-ugly  in that picture. We could put a cooler picture, but like I said, it doesn't really matter. --Time2shyne 21:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  main picture? 

message: It's just an idea it's kind of stupid, but should we give Ichigo's hollow his own page?Akatasukileader2007 18:30, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hollow 

message: whats teh theme song for? they apparently has it on each character
:IIRC, it was just mentioned in their profiles in the manga. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 15:33, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  the theme song? 

message: What happened to the pilot manga sections I wrote for Ichigo, Orihime and Rukia? What's so unimportant about that information?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.46.190.57 (talk) 19:54:07, August 19, 2007 (UTC) 
:Rather than a summary about what happens in the pilot, a blurb on how the character differs between versions would be more suitable. For example, saying that Orihime is attacked by her hollow father and subsequently killed is all that needs to be said about her (assuming I haven't forgotten another drastic difference). ~SnapperTo 22:47, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure how it came to be so easily accessible (tankoban exclusive maybe?) but this should do it. ~SnapperTo 03:20, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pilot Manga 

message: Isn't the fact that Ichigo 'sucks' in sensing reiatsu's a gag that keeps coming back throughout the series like Rukia's bad drawing? And so shouldn't it be included somewere?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomvasseur (talk • contribs) 14:26, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gag 

message: doesn't the phrase Getsuga(月牙) just mean "Crescent?" And therefore Getsuga Tenshou should be correctly translated as "Crescent Sky-Piercer?" 75.0.187.241 00:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats the literal translation, what is meant is the moon sky-piercing fang. Crescent is the synonym for moon. See, the shape of Gesuga Tenshou is like a crescent moon.--Hanaichi 03:11, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

text: All original research. Just because he uses the blue one against Grimmjow in bankai, which he never does, does not mean he can go the other way. He uses the black/red one whenever he is in bankai. Always. StardustDragon 23:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? i could've sworn i saw a blue one in there.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Licourtrix (talk • contribs) 14:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that's Grimmjow's gran rey cero, it's bluish and travels similar to a getsuga. Or it could just be Grimmjow's light-blue reiatsu, colored as such to match his hair, zanpakuto tsuba, Gran Rey Cero color, etc. StardustDragon 03:13, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Getsuga Tenshou 

message: Why was Tite Kubo's inspirational Theme Song for Ichigo (News from the Front by Bad Religion) removed from the page, while other theme songs, namely Rukia's Wing-Stock by Ashley MacIsaac, left on their respective pages? Arukan Harless 20:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theme Song Removal? 

message: Ok on bleach forums people have been making all these weird theories on why Ichigo's chain on his bankai disappears when he dons his hollow mask. I strongly think this isn't true. But I wonder if this speculation has any merit with you guys. Noman953  19:00, 13 September 2007
:Any theories or claims of such a nature are original research and not suitable for inclusion into Wikipedia. Now, if a reliable, verifiable, third party source were to comment on such speculation, then it could be included. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 00:02, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not true.  Check Chapter 281, particularly pages 10 and 13.  You can clearly see that the chain remains even with his hollow mask on. Kyouraku-taichou 23:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Yep, and on many occasions after that as well. Hollow Ichigo invented the swinging of Zangetsu by the chain and tassel; it would make sense that Ichigo uses it more with his mask on. StardustDragon 01:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ichigo's bankai's chain 

message: The birthday on this page is listed as July 15th, a translated version of the same Manga page I saw listed his birthday as July 7th, which one is correct? --Stux 17:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: July 15 is correct. That translation somehow mistook 15 for a 7. ~SnapperTo 18:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what I kinda figured (but was hoping for the opposite ), especially since the Japanese version of the page also lists 15.  Thank you very much for the screenshot of the original Japanese page!  I was trying to figure out how I could take a look at one of those.  Again, thank you! --Stux 17:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthday 

message: According to the manga, Ichigo does like chocolate but the spicy food he likes specifically is karashi mentaiko (the marinated fully ripe mass of pollock, spicy).    —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rukia-sama (talk • contribs) 05:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ichigo's taste in food 

message: The picture we have right now is a manga one we should change it. The one in the 19th voulme page 89, first panel is good, very good. If some disagree then I think we should get the anime version of the current one. Ultimaterasengan 00:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  better Bankai picture 

message: Someone had scrawled some curses on top of the "character outline" section.  I went to go clean that up, but the offending words were not in the editable text box.  I went back to see if someone had already edited.  They had not, yet the offending words didn't show up in the editable version of the page.  I saved the seemingly editable page as was, and it over-wrote the existing page, restoring the page.
I just thought I'd mention this because it seems like odd behavior.
Liquid entropy 04:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ClueBot beat you to the punch.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 04:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Graffitti cleanup oddity 

message: I think it should mention more about them: Ichigo, 174 cm, 61kg, blood type AO, High scool student, substitute soul reaper. while im at it, Rukia: 144cm, 33kg, soul reaper. Orimime: 157cm, 45kg, blood type BO, high school student. Chad: 197cm, 112kg, blood type AO, high school student, Uryu: 171cm, 55kg, blood type AB, High school student, quincy. Kon: 27cm, 182g, modified soul. just adding the heights and weights and occupation and if i can, blood type. Uzumaki Dude 04:48, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't really need to include trivial in-universe details. They're irrelevant to the article as a whole, and have no real significance on the character. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 05:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

text: The information was included in the past, but has since been omitted. Frankly, I think it's somewhat useful and interesting, but due to the recurring vandalism related to it, and the difficulty to verify (not everyone has access to all the character bio pages, plus the RAW often differs from scanlations), we're probably better off without this. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 06:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be nice to see some details. Replacing "another vizard" with "Shinji Hirako" for example. It's not a big deal, but it is a biography. I honestly liked the longer synopsis, though improvements could have been made.Baiseru 04:04, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Avoiding specific details for characters or things that otherwise have no impact on what is being summarized is simpler for people unfamiliar with the topic; they aren't being overloaded with more than they need to know about a topic they are just finding out about. ~SnapperTo 20:46, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character bios 

message: Hey, I added the anime version of Bankai. Please don't delete it, there is nothing wrong with it, and it looks basically like the manga one.Ultimaterasengan (talk) 01:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bankai 

message: Does anyone, aside from  and , object if I place these headers to this article (and other Bleach-related ones)? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Considering that conception and development information is one of the key sources of real world information for fictional characters, they should be placed. If there isn't enough information in that regard, then that's a big indicator that the character probably shouldn't have an article. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 02:23, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not that I absolutely object to them, but adding the tags and headings without information in the sector makes the article looks odd. Now, if there were information in there, I wouldn't mind tags to be placed. If perhaps the work group can find and add the information plus citations, then go ahead and put the tags. Putting tags to expand a section where there is nothing in that section is odd.--Hanaichi 02:34, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it that strange? A "reception" header was added to Sand Land by Snapper2 a while back. I've been following this method ever since. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:49, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a fairly common practice. At WP:VG, it is often used for fictional characters. In any case, if this article is ever going to try to jump up the assessment chart, then conception or development information is utterly vital. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 03:01, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well okay, add them, and find information. Overall, the only character that has real world information is Orihime. I know everyone else is busy doing other stuff, but perhaps there are several sites that offer such information which could be put over here.--Hanaichi 03:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Could someone else try adding the sections? I'm at my 3RR limit. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:34, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And I'm trying to figure out where we find sources for these things. I just did a search on Google but it ain't helping much because most of the sites appear to have ripped it off from wiki. Is there an actual poll in Japanese only or something? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They're periodically placed at the first few pages of corresponding Jump issues. BleachExile and Onemanga display them along with the chapters they are released with. StardustDragon 02:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some approval 

message: I'm not suggesting that this would be added to the article, but I was thinking that is Ichigo's hollow form an example of a Vasto Lorde? It's small, somewhat humanlike and possesses high-level hollow powers such as the instant regeneration ability and cero blasts of considerable strenght. Adding this to the article is afaik against policy, since it's original research, but it does match the description of a VL as far as I know, too.  --Petrim (talk) 22:50, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Speculation. Likely true, both from what we've seen and because he's the protagonist, but speculation nonetheless. --erachima formerly tjstrf 00:06, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Since when has Ichigo devoured thousands of hollows? — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 23:56, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Since when has he had to devour thousands of hollows? We're talking about a captain class shinigami here, his innate ability and spirit power is so huge - and considering all the insane feats he's so far gathered would it be that far fetched to think that his hollow form is an example of VL, just by his sheer amount of native strength? As we have so far seen, lower level hollows (those with less spirit power) are always way bigger than regular humans, usually the size of a small house. Inoue's brother was quite small in terms of usual hollow size, but he wasn't really humanlike, nor the size of a human, was he? Then again the sizing of hollows and measurements of their power has varied wildly throughout the series, as in the earlier chapters the bigger the hollow the more dangerous it was, where as now in Hueco Mundo -arc the heroes cut down Menos Grande like they were nothing and human sized arrancar beat the crap out of the heroes in every turn. This is especially an anime feature - but not that far from the truth in manga either. Well, I honestly don't know what was the point of this since I can't seem to reach a conclusion on the grounds that there just isn't enough evidence and factual information given in the manga. *shrug* --Petrim (talk) 15:10, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Also, Ichigo's inner hollow doesn't represent what Ichigo actually looks like as a hollow.  During his Vizard training, he became less and less human-like as much of his hollow took over. King Zeal (talk) 12:15, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, but we're talking about Hollow Ichigo's form, not Ichigo's. It's safe to say the lizard-like thing we saw during vizard training is Hollow Ichigo's true hollow form, but whether or not it's a Vasto Lorde is still up for debate. As for Penguin's comment, Ichigo didn't consume any hollows, but God knows what Hollow Ichigo's done. StardustDragon 01:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hollow Ichigo can only exist inside/as Ichigo, therefore its safe to say if Ichigo isn't devouring masses of hollows, Hollow Ichigo isn't either.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.131.48.213 (talk) 14:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The whole point in the creation of Menos Grande, Gillian, and Vasto Lordes is that they eat other hollows out of the need for more spiritual energy.  Would it be so far-fetched to believe that Hollow Ichigo is feeding off of Ichigo's immense spiritual energy in order to evolve?  Yet that theory strikes up another question, is hollow spirit energy the same as soul reaper spirit energy?  I believe the status of Hollow Ichigo rests on that question.Chewy0212 (talk) 04:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hollow Ichigo 

message: So who does it? Morita himself, or someone else? (Just out of curiousity: James chen0 (talk) 21:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno about Morita, but Bosch does the Hollow in any case.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's the character's voice done with computer distortion...its been mentioned before...RedEyesMetal (talk) 14:54, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who voices Ichigo's hollow? 

message: wouldnt ichigo's use of his hallow powers, knowingly or unknowingly make him a Vizard?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.119.185.104 (talk) 07:15, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, which is touched upon in the article a couple of times. ~SnapperTo 19:00, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  vizard? 

message: Just wondering if we should add a bit regarding Ichigo's mask's cosmetic changes that occur when he dons the mask during his final fight with Grimmjow. Also, I think the picture depicting his mask should be changed as there are better ones out there now that include his black eyes. Also, one last thing, should something be added to inform readers of the animal-like noise that accompany his attacks when he's wearing the mask in the anime? None of the things are pressing matters, just though it would be more informative for people browsing the article. --165.236.69.139 (talk) 22:12, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think getting a better picture is a great idea - make sure that you put in the right licensing stuff, though, or else it'll be tagged for speedy deletion. Were there cosmetic changes in the manga? I never noticed. I think the changes in the mask and noise aren't notable, though. I think we should leave those out. Might want to wait for others' opinions, though. Love, IceUnshattered (talk) 20:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ichigo makes the same noise as a human when attacking, its just amplified/distorted by the hollow powers when donning the mask.--74.131.48.213 (talk) 14:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some improvements regarding the hollow powers section 

message: Do you think this article should have a separate section specifically dealing with Ichigo's inner hollow (henceforth refered to as "Shirosaki" as many fans do)? He's important enough to be considered as a protagonist, and the section "Hollow powers" don't give enough information on him at all. For example, while it does mention (although somewhat indirectly) that Shirosaki intends to take over Ichigo and his powers. And it gives no information on what happens when he takes over Ichigo's body and how Ichigo's appearance changes. (For example, the change of his voice and the eye color becoming black, and half a mask appearing on his face, and that his lunacy is upgraded when he assumes control over Ichigo.) I don't want to write everything the article doesn't mention, so I'll finish the point. Does anybody else think that Shirosaki deserves a separate section? (Not a separate article, I think, but still, He's important enough for a separate section in the article for Ichigo.)
:Starshade17 (talk) 13:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We have a section about the hollow. All that stuff is mentioned. StardustDragon 23:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A separate section for the Hollow? 

message: According to what's written here:
Chapter 220 depicts it as a mirror writing of Ichigo's name...
So, if its written as Kurosaki Ichigo in the original manga, backwards would be: Ogihci Ikasoruk. Now, I added this before, and it got rejected. Why? Isn't that cover page a good enough source? I've seen many call him "Shirosaki" since H.Ichigo is white, now can someone help me out on this please?RedEyesMetal 19:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ichigo's hollow doesn't have a name. He even said it himself.--Time2shyne 23:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition to what Time2shyne said, even if we used chapter 220's example, it's not even Ogichi Ikasoruk, it's just mirrored text. The mirrored version of 'bxd' is not 'dxb', it's 'bxd'. I wanted to give an example which would produce gibberish, as it does in the case of Ichigo Kurosaki, but haven't found the characters. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 23:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In most of the Bleach games, the kanji is written the same as Ichigos', but usually has a different outline like red or black I think.--Hanaichi 12:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A little tidbit I've noticed in Heat the Soul 4: Hollow Ichigo's name is written with the same exact kanji as Ichigo's and in the same exact order, though the kanji themselves are flipped (as well as being inverted in colour). // DecaimientoPoético 14:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Hollow Ichigo absorbing Zangetsu into himself is completely different from being named Zangetsu.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 20:12, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: When, precisely, did Hichigo claim he'd absorbed Zangetsu's spirit? 71.230.221.73 (talk) 04:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Chapter 218. Though I don't think "absorb" is the best choice of words. ~SnapperTo 04:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps "replace?" 207.80.142.5 (talk) 18:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think its more of that the spirit of Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo are the same or atleast inexorably linked. If Ichigo fails to exist, then so does zangetsu and if zangetsu or Ichigo doesn't exist there can't be a hollow representation of Ichigo.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.131.48.213 (talk) 14:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  If I remember correctly, Zangetsu and H. Ichigo were two sides of the same soul (the soul of the Zanpaktou).  The original idea was that the appearance of H. Ichigo was due to his dominance over Zangetsu, thus becoming the visible side of the soul of the Zanpaktou, allowing him to interact with Ichigo.  The only question left to be answered is whether H. Ichigo or Zangetsu is in control, since Ichigo defeated H. Ichigo.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chewy0212 (talk • contribs) 03:58, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Zangetsu won't isappear if Ichigo dies.  We've seen on more than one occasion that the death of a Soul Reaper does not necessarily mean the destruction of their Soul Slayer.  Tosen uses a Soul Slayer that isn't his, and in one of the movies, the villain dies and leaves behind his sword as well.King Zeal (talk) 12:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

text: This is too stupid to warrant a response. StardustDragon 18:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Couldn't two sides of the same soul also mean they are two sides of Ichigo's soul? From what I've seen the circumstances for a soul reapers sword to remain after their death has to be pretty outside the norm, we don't know how Kaname's sword's previous owner died, but its possible that the sword and Kaname had an agreement before that occured anyway. Also in the OVA in which the sword was left behind, the guy had fused with his sword...which in itself is a singular occurence that damaged both the Soul Reaper and his sword in a way.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Licourtrix (talk • contribs) 00:19, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Should someone add that Hollow Ichigo is also affectionately called "Shirosaki" by fans, as "Kuro" means black, and "Shiro" means white (i.e. Ichigo is black and Hollow Ichigo is white)? 24.4.95.224 (talk) 22:54, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Key word there being "by fans" which means trivia and irrelevant unless that has been significantly covered in reliable sources. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:46, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hollow Ichigo's name.. 

message: I haven't watched Bleach for very long, but I thought they were called Soul Reapers not Shinigami as the first paragraph suggests.
I thought Shinigami was the name for creatures like Ryuk in Death Note.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.65.164.167 (talk) 06:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A shinigami is any death deity. It's not just in Death Note.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 17:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

text: That's also the translation Tite Kubo gave instead of Death God. He wanted it to translate to Soul Reaper. --Cronodude360 (talk) 21:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Anyway, should we close this section?--75.104.160.58 (talk) 01:58, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No one has responded to this topic since July. I'd say it's closed without the need to say that it is.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:24, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shinigami 

message: It doesn't seem like the synopsis of Ichigo is really up to date. Can someone elaborate? --Skeletawn (talk) 02:43, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What would you add? He hasn't been seen in three months (chapter 318), and the section reflects what he was last seen doing. ~SnapperTo 02:51, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Oh. I don't read the manga, so I didn't know. --75.104.160.36 (talk) 01:47, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, now he has been seen for over a month. I think we can update the plot some. There's one important major plot point. Ichigo is defeated easily and stabbed in the heart but comes back to life in an alternate, much stronger Hollow form. We need to update this section with as much new information about this new form as possible. Occamsrazorwit (talk) 23:43, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, we don't. This isn't a "news" site and chapter by chapter updates are inappropriate, as is "as much new information" as possible. This is a summary, not a fansite nor Bleach guide. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 23:55, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a whole new transformation is rather notable, personally, and should be mentioned in a 'summary'. Frequen-Z (talk) 20:10, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It would probably be appropriate to wait for more information on the form and how it came to be. Saying Ichigo died and then revived himself as a hollow, or some other interpretation, could be a point of contention until Kubo spells it out for us. Besides, he is still "engaging [Ulquiorra] in combat", so the article isn't necessarily behind the times. ~SnapperTo 21:47, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly...until its over, better to wait for the how/why, and also to see if this is a one-time thing or not. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:19, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well since Ichigo has now defeated Ulquiorra or atleast he died, we should update the Synopsis, plus like AnmaFinotera said, this isn't a fansite or something so we don't need to put down why Ichigo transformed, just that he did during the fight.(user talk: Bleach28jak3)13:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synopsis 

message: We are currently using three images in abilities. Although they have an important use they bother a bit the paragraphs. Does anybody know of a image of Ichigo in bankai state while having the hollow mask? I suppose in the anime there are some of those images like in the fights against Grimmjow. That would help the section. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 16:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: His fights in Hueco Mundo show him with both (, , . Alternatively you could try an image with Zangetsu and hollow Ichigo (which I can't find a good image of [chapters 110-112]). ~SnapperTo 22:34, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

text: White/grey eyes... because... the manga is in black and white. See the anime and you'll see the yellow. :Starshade17 (talk) 16:18, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bankai and hollow images 

message: Is this article written mainly in in-universe style? Give me your opinions. Expo377 (talk) 07:48, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, added a little something to the article then. Expo377 (talk) 07:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

text: An answer by an anon user does not say the article is written this way. Why do you say its written this way? Have you read some parts that are in that style?Tintor2 (talk) 16:49, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind, the stuff is minor anyway; I'm sorry I put it in there in the first place. Expo377 (talk) 03:55, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  In-universe? 

message: i believe we should mention hollow ichigo in here in a separate section than what forms ichigo has. it seems hollow ichigo has a complete different personality than ichigo, and knows how to use ichigo's zanpaktuo better. discuss.DeathBerry talk 15:35, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if the name appeared in the Japanese version, but the new dubbed episode calls the Hollow Ichigo "Kamen" (Mask, in Japanese). Can we add this?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 05:09, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

text: I think we need a bit more confirmation on something like this. 'It' even having a name has been debatable after all. He says he has no name, then Kubo puts his 'name' as a mirror reverse of Ichi's and now this. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 09:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  You forgot to mention during its fight with Ichigo for control of his body it tells him "I am Zangetsu!" at least twice. 142.26.194.190 (talk) 01:19, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if the new episode lists his name as "Kamen" with the story being filler and all, it can't be considered as canon nor authoritative. RPating (talk) 07:12, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Speaking of Hollow Ichigo, would it be prudent to assume his so-called "new" Hollow transformation is his resurrección?  After all, if Kaname Tosen can use resurrección in his viazad form, who's to say the other viazard can't. And when in the new episode does it address his inner Hollow as "Kamen"?  His inner Hollow doesn't even appear in the episode.142.26.194.190 (talk) 21:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Ichigo's transformation was never called Resurrecion so adding to it to this article would be original research.Tintor2 (talk) 22:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  True, but Ichigo's inner hollow was never referred to as "Kamen" in the latest episode of the animen either, so that's original research as well.  142.26.194.190 (talk) 16:33, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Never heard that hollow was named so yes, any addition about that has to be removed.Tintor2 (talk) 16:50, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

text: The being known commonly as Hollow Ichigo, is part of the bulk of Ichigo's spirit energy personified. As  of the part of it being known as Zangetsu; the being that is the main part of the bulk that is being personified seems to be the one identified as zangetsu, excluding the times when they both are shown; when they are both in appearance the one in dominance is called zangetsu while the other has no name, such as when ichigo is fighting 11th Squad Captain Kempachi and ends up fighting the (at the time nameless) "Hollow Ichigo".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by U2dead (talk • contribs) 03:25, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The only time Hollow Ichigo has been seen side-by-side with Zangetsu is when the latter summons it to train Ichigo.  During his Visored training, the hollow had become strong enough to subsume "old man" Zangetsu and manifest instead of him.  Despite both entities being two sides of the same coin, there is no indication that they have the same name.  We should just stick to calling it "Ichigo's inner hollow" for now.  75.157.120.15 (talk) 18:57, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hollow ichigo