Talk:William Greer

message: Please Change Greer was born on a farm in Stewardstown, County Tyrone, Ireland
to
Greer was born on a farm in Stewartstown, County Tyrone, Ireland
The Spelling of Stewardstown is incorrect  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmcaliskey (talk • contribs) 12:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: An IP sock of the long-banned editor here  has returned to the page to push the fringe theory. I've reverted his additions, and filed at RFPP for further protection. Just letting everyone know. Dayewalker (talk) 07:26, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection request 

message: This article was listed on votes for deletion; see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/William Greer. —No-One Jones (m) 09:58, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: comment

message: There is a group of watchdogs reverting this post instantly whenever any responsibility is placed on Greer. In light of the enhanced MPI film (produced from the original Zapruder film) I'm requesting that you leave the current post intact and allow contributors to add the specific citations. 
These revert warriors' have clear double standards, including a lack of citations for the first two paragraphs of the History section, as well as this paragraph: "Some commentators have criticized Greer's actions during the assassination, noting that he did not accelerate the vehicle to get the president out of danger as soon as he could have. In the confusion after the first shot was fired, the limousine's brake lights can be seen coming on briefly, slowing the car to almost a walking pace. The vehicle accelerated several seconds later, but by then the fatal shot had been fired. (Since that time, Secret Service agents have been trained to accelerate rapidly out of the area if they even think they hear gunfire.)" [citation needed]
Fact: William Greer was not just a driver, he was a trained SS agent authorized to carry a weapon in the presence of the president of the United States. 
Fact: William Greer was with Kennedy the entire time from Love Field to Bethesda (alive and dead) and controlled his clothing (murder evidence). The so called "Warren Report" is the documentation supporting this last point. I have a copy on my shelf and plan to post many citations referencing it soon. 
Fact: The stabilized Zapruder film as copied from the National Archives shows new detail of Greer's already contradicting actions (especially when compared to his testimony). 
Fact: There is no credential for assassination researchers to determine what is credible (such as a PHD etc.) nor for theories that should or should not be considered. (And the age or widespread acceptance does NOT make a theory more credible. A lie can be old and widely believed, but it can still be a lie.) And please outline where a self-published is outlined as an invalid reference in Wikipedia's standards. All publishers turned down the work of Howard Weisburg even though he was the first and the best of the assassination researchers!
STOP REVERTING THIS ARTICLE TO EXCLUDE THE FACTS OUTLINED ABOVE. THEY ARE A CLEAR PART OF THE HISTORICAL RECORD AND THE MURDER OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES DESERVES SUCH SCRUTINY!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.244.196 (talk) 03:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read WP:FRINGE before you add this material again. Gamaliel (talk) 04:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New additions

message: I have reverted this back to an earlier version, with a couple of amendments to text unsupported by the source. This article has been taken over by a fringe POV pusher intent on publicising his tin foil hat theories that are in his vanity published book, and was a gross violation of WP:FRINGE and WP:WEIGHT. There are many theories detailed in Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories, and Greer is not mentioned there a single time. Therefore to have most of article that tries to make him look guilty is totally unacceptable. At best, all that should be in this article is something like "Although no court or official report has ever alleged wrongdoing on his part, [insert name(s) of credible non-tin foil hat non-vanity published author(s)] continue to explore Greer's possible complicity in the assassination", and that is assuming there is consensus on that article for a theory regarding Greer to be added. 2 lines of K303 13:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed on Youtube that there is a nutty theory holding that Greer actually turned around and...delivered the fatal head shot to Kennedy. :) 192.121.232.253 (talk) 13:12, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disgusting article 

message: I'm back!  I'm very happy to report that this idea is no longer "fringe". In his new five volume book, Inside the Assassination Records and Review Board, highly credible researcher Doug Horne points to William Robert Greer as a possible shooter, which is corroborated by both the Zapruder film and witness testimony, including that of Secret Service Agent Clint Hill. Now, I respectfully ask that you not revert the edits. This view is no longer "fringe". Thank you.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.137.27 (talk) 19:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I ask that you revert your 4RR on the article until you get consensus to add it to the BLP article. As this article has been locked down for six months because of your previous edits, it seems best to make sure there's consensus to add the material. Dayewalker (talk) 19:59, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

text: On what basis are you claiming that this person is mainstream? --B (talk) 20:09, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking at the above discussions, I have blocked this IP as a clear reincarnation.  His topic ban at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive202#Proposed_topic_ban seems to be in order and this is obviously the same person.  (Note the use of the word "gatekeeper" to refer to those who remove his fringe claims.) --B (talk) 20:19, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

text: So the banned editor quotes an entirely different volume of the book from the one cited and still claims to right? Absolutely hilarious, as only on Wikipedia could a source which says the film does "not depict Greer holding a handgun and pointing it at President Kennedy" (yes, read that quote and weep people since the entire three year edit war has been based on the fact that certain people believe the film shows Greer firing the fatal shot!!!) possibly be used to corroborate  "illustrates more detail of Greer's actions during the fatal shooting sequence, causing some commentators to speculate that perhaps Greer stopped the limo to fire the fatal head shot". Cherry picking quotes doesn't even help, as anyone performing a cursory read of the sections of the book in question will see he's into conspiracy theory territory, thus remaining deeply in WP:FRINGE territory. I really don't even know why I'm wasting my time typing this since the IP editor never listens to anything anyone says. To sum up, it's fringe, it's always been fringe, it will take years before there's even a possibility of it not becoming fringe, you're banned from editing any articles relating to the assassination of JFK, we're not interested in anything you have to say, please go away, thanks. 2 lines of K303 13:38, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless of what is going on with this "de facto banned editor,"  I find it strange that a talk page would get reverted like this.  It seems not to be in keeping with the policies of Wikipedia.  Likewise I find the pointing to WP:FRINGE being violated strange, too.  I would have to say that most if not all conspiracy theories would be fringe theories.  But that policy clearly does not state that fringe theories cannot be mentioned, just that they cannot be given undue weight.  It also seems to me that the fact many conspiracy theorists do believe that Greer was the assassin is worth mentioning somewhere.  The Kellerman article does mention that Kellerman thought there was a conspiracy.  This article mentions that Greer slowed down and looked back, which the Zapruder film appears to show.  I hate to stir the pot, but the theory that Greer killed Kennedy is also discussed in Behold a Pale Horse.  As for credibility, I wonder how we could deal with conspiracy theorists' credibility.  I would have to say that as far as this goes, conspiracy theorists would be credible as sources showing that there was a conspiracy theory.  Whether they are credible when it comes to the actual assassination is another story, but that is not what we are talking about.  We are talking about the fact there are conspiracy theorists who believe that Greer shot Kennedy, who also produce frames of the Zapruder film they interpret as showing Greer with his weapon drawn when he turned around to face Kennedy.  I don't think we can reasonably exclude the fact that such a theory exists, regardless of what we might think about it.  I think Oswald shot Kennedy and acted alone, but the frames in question do look interesting.  Rifter0x0000 (talk) 03:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see Talk:William Greer#Disgusting article, and various other sections where this has been discussed. As for the banned editor, he's edit warred for three years to include this fringe viewpoint in this article and refused to listen to anything anyone else has to say. We really aren't interested in discussing it with *him* any further, he's had many chances to work within policy, he failed to take those chances, and now he's banned from all articles relating to the assassination of JKF. There's really no reason why the time of editors should be wasted dealing with this crankery any more. 2 lines of K303 13:21, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  AARB Researcher Doug Horne Points To Greer 

message: , , . You have all previously taken administrative action regarding this editor, so perhaps you could keep an eye on this rather obvious reincarnation. The evidence, other than them pushing the same tired unsourced conspiracy theories about Greer;
From the latest IP "Constant Reversion of Cited, Critical Content". The Only Other People That Type Headings Like This On This Page are the previous incarnation, see for example #Why Keep Reverting When So Much Documented Fact?, #Help Edit This Article to Reflect the Historical Record, #AARB Researcher Doug Horne Points To Greer and #Why All The Reverting of a Discussion.
From the latest IP "Time and time again - almost 24/7/365 - cited analysis and criticism of Secret Service Agent William Robert Greer is falsely defined as "vandalism" and reverted to apologist, government-explanation-only content, which lacks citations". As the recent history of the article shows, the only recent mention of vandalism in the edit history is this revert of an edit repeatedly describing Greer as inept and adding other unsourced criticism. Other reverts such as this have repeatedly mentioned WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE & WP:V, never vandalism. The previous incarnation's attempts to add conspiracy theory garbage to this article and Greer related material to John F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories were warned for vandalism, as the editor complains about here. Regarding the "Time and time again - almost 24/7/365" remark, this is similar to claims made by the previous incarnation such as "There is a group of watchdogs reverting this post instantly whenever any responsibility is placed on Greer" and "By the way, why in the Hell are you revising this so quickly and so frequently?".
From the latest IP additions to the article such as "The FBI recorded Greer’s physical description during an interview with him after the assassination" (additional diffs). The previous incarnation repeatedly tried to add a similar sentence to the article in an attempt to insinuate Greer's supposed guilt, see for example "The FBI interviewed Greer after the assassination and, although agents Kellerman and Behn were also interviewed, Greer's interview is unique in that his physical description is also recorded in the 11/27/63 FBI report", this was repeatedly edit warred into the article by  and  (every major edit to the article from either IP is a diff including that phrase).
Last, but by no means least. Even if this IP isn't the same editor that's topic banned, do we really need another single purpose account edit warring to include an unsourced conspiracy theory in total violation of WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE and WP:V? There is the last major edit by the current incarnation. The only source cited is this which is a copy of the FBI report (obviously a primary source), being used to source a sentence whose only purpose is to try and make Greer look suspicious. I am not interested in what the IP says the Zapruder film does or does not show, or what Greer said in his FBI interview, or what Secret Service procedures were. Creating a critique of Greer from those is explicitly forbidden per no original research. Neither am I interested in the contents of "Murder from Within: Lyndon Johnson's Plot Against President Kennedy" by Fred T. Newcomb (with editing by Perry Adams). This book was a manuscript that gathered dust for well over 30 years before being self-published on AuthorHouse by the author's son in 2011 shortly before the author's death. Who was Fred T. Newcomb? Nobody. Self-published conspiracy theory garbage has no place in this article, and in my opinion we shouldn't even waste time discussing it. Grewsome47 (talk) 10:06, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Semi extended indefinitely. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:26, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the IP edits because they aren't entitled to abuse this talkpage as a forum for general discussion and theorizing, and blocked is blocked - they may not edit. Acroterion (talk) 00:18, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: And I've hard-blocked the IP. Acroterion (talk) 00:45, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

text: I've blocked the account, since it's obviously the same person, and because the blocked IP was using images uploaded by the account to Commons. Acroterion (talk) 01:49, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  In case the banned editor returns again 

message: What is the source for the statement “Secret Service procedures in place at the time did not allow Greer to take action without orders from senior agent Roy Kellerman, who sat to Greer's right.“ Secret Service Fan (talk) 23:57, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: More from blocked kook. EEng 08:20, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation Needed 

message: The link to the stabilized Zapruder film is broken. I don't want to break the page so could someone take a look?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.160.249 (talk) 00:33, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken Link 

message: Change the location of birth from Ireland to Northern Ireland as they are seperate countries, it seems like a trivial edit but in the pursuit of accuracy the orginal is incorrect. Pheakay (talk) 00:48, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: As the subject was born in Ireland 10 years before the Irish War of Independence and therefore before the existence of Northern Ireland, as an entity separate from the Republic of Ireland, it would be inappropriate to list his birthplace as such. On Wikipedia when listing the birthplace of subjects it is generally SOP to list the political entity that the subject was born into whether or not that entity still exists. See Vladimir Putin where his birthplace is listed as "" despite the fact that Leningrad has since reverted to its pre-soviet name of "St. Petersburg", and that the Russian SFSR and the Soviet Union no longer exist.  — FenrisAureus ▲ (she/they) (talk) 02:33, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: His birthplace can be kept as Ireland however in the histroy section Stewartstown, County Tyrone should be changed to Northern Ireland. If you look up the wiki on said place it also states Northern Ireland. His birth is fine as is but for accuracy the town should be updated to its current location. Pheakay (talk) 23:01, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2024