Talk:Triad (organized crime)

message: TRIADS TERRITORY DOES NOT CONSIST ( KOREA OR KOREAN PENINSULA).  NORTH KOREA KIM JUNG UN STATE CONTROL TRIAD. NO TERRITORY, NO FOOTHOLD.  IN SOUTH KOREA LOCAL MAFIA KICKED OUT ALL CHINESE RELATED MAFIA BUSINESS.
I deleted the "5 common ancestors" from the section on the oaths, as it seems the listing of two of the ancestors, "Kok Max" and "Long Dong", was an attempt at humour.
After entering the Han gates I shall be loyal and faithful and shall endeavour to overthrow Ch'ing and restore Ming by coordinating my efforts with those of my sworn brethren even though my brethren and I may not be in the same professions. Our common aim is to avenge our Five Ancestors (Kok Max, Long Dong, Gee Seng, Choom Beng and Bong Lai). 
--Zegoma beach (talk) 18:33, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted "5 Common Ancestors"

message: Language used in Triad oath's section was misleading.  Referenced full text, probably incorrectly, so please correct it.  It was never a strictly religious society, but it had religious overtones and very strong Buddhist influences and to a lesser degree Taoist as well.  See "Ritual and Mythology of the Chinese Triads" by Barend J. Ter Haar.  This was probably lost after the 1911 Republican Revolution when it started leaning towards organized crime, but not being a triad member, I can't tell you. 128.8.210.42 11:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it still a religious society? When did it lost this? -- Error 01:59, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Triad oath language

message: The tense starts in the present and ends in the past in the firsts sentence of the activities overseas section. I will change 'Currently, Triad activities have been active' to  'Currently, Triads are active '  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.247.11 (talk) 10:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  incorrect grammar 

message: the article translates 3 characters as 'Tian Di Hui', they are, in fact, 'Tian Tu Hui' (although the meaning 'Heaven and Earth Society' still applies.).
:Fixed.Bill 19:32, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen it romanized (Wade-Giles) as "T'ien Ti Hui".  Jean Chesneaux, "Secret Societies in China" 128.8.210.42 11:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  incorrect character translation 

message: After the Mob in Hong Kong in 1956, the government actively enforced the laws that restricted and diminished the triad activities in Hong Kong.
:This sentance needs something, but I don't know enough to fill the holes Sam Spade 05:49, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The Triads have worked with the CIA in creating the drug network. The creation of the Golden Triangle as a source for drugs was a joint CIA-Triad operation.
Watcher 06:47, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  grammar 

message: In the article Social problems in Chinatown I found this image. Is it a genuine Triad symbol? I find it a bit odd, as if made up.
On the other hand there are occurrences outside the wikepedia. If someone knows that it is genuine it could be included into the article or if not removed from the Wikipedia.
--Silvestre Zabala 11:59, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Triad symbol? 

message: The article as of now contains this sentence: "Note: It is illegal to describe the formalities for initiation into a triad in Hong Kong." I assume this means it is illegal, in Hong Kong, to describe the initiation; the sentence structure at present makes it unclear. Wikipedia is not subject to Hong Kong law, and I think we should describe the formalities of initiation. Vivacissamamente 22:19, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, who exactly deems it illegal to to discuss triad initiations? Is this police authorities of Hong Kong proper or of the People's Republic? That question should be addressed as the well to complete the intended meaning. Shadowrun 06:15, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly.  In any case, it is likely that wikipedia does subject itself to Chinese law, but this has nothing to do with us.  If the foundation gets a bee in its butt about some illegal info, that's their issue, which their well situated to deal with.  Our purpose is to tell the truth and write good articles.  In any case, its certainly not illegal in most areas, so the above questions certainly bare(bear?) clarification.--Δζ (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Illegality" of information 

message: By the "principle of least surprise", at Triad, you should expect the counterpart of :de:Trias (Religion) (related to trinity), or a disambiguation page; I suggest this article should be at Triad (China) or similar. Also, I do not understand "The term does not carry capital letters" in the intro. Presumably, this is intended to mean simply that "triad" in this meaning is not capitalized? dab (ᛏ) 09:10, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: title

message: Many statements in this article require a proper citation. Please refer to Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research, our official policies, in particular "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who has made the edit. Editors should therefore provide references. Any edit lacking a source may be removed. If you doubt the truthfulness of an unsourced statement, remove it to the talk page." Refer to Wikipedia:Citing sources on how to cite sources. Shawnc 12:58, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources required 

message: Why was this information ommitted from the article? I can see the lack of substantial citation or information leading to it being questioned, but it was intriguing enough to add as long as the proper comments were made to say as much. Shadowrun 06:51, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shian'Lia Xian 

message: This entire article reads like an organised crime apology. Low on fact, high on opinion and rationalization.
193.110.85.248The film big trouble in little china, although very fictional shows triads gruops and shows of force and has another gruop called tongs and is mayeb worth a mention under triads in films section193.110.85.248
::Yeah. For example if the Triad's livelihood depend on counterfeiting watches and clothes, then they must be pretty hard-up. I mean would they spend a load of money setting up watches and clothes factories, only for them to sell for $1 in a US flea-market? Seriously, would the Triads really go into these sort of low mark-up manufacturing, which requires large areas of fixed space that could be easily raided? As any tourist in Thailand would tell you, a fake Rolex can be picked up for under US$5. 81.154.27.213 (talk) 01:50, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Written by fanboys 

message: :Image:As Tears Go By.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:As Tears Go By.jpg

message: I was looking for information specifically relating to the 14K Triad and now find that the article has been merged into this one, which gives me only generic information related to no specific group, which is absolutely useless to me.  Good work on allowing bureaucracy and mergist policy to interfere with legitimate articles which would actually benefit users of this project. 203.220.43.126 06:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article merges

message: Getting rid of the section on those "alleged" to have triad ties. By whom? Your saying it is not good enough...Mostly living people, who deserve the courtesy of having these things sourced. I have heard the things about Sun and Chiang before, and they are obviously dead. Someone should integrate this information into other parts of the article, with proper sources.67.85.178.110 04:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speedy delete 

message: As per Disambiguation guidelines, the name of this article shouldn't be "Triad". Instead, the disambiguation page should be named that, and link from there to this article, which should be more specific about its subject. The term triad, of course, didn't originate from the underground societies this article talks about, and in fact refers to many other things, many of which are more relevant, popular, etc. for the term "triad". Hence, I will move the page name "Triad" to the disambiguation page, and replace the name of this article with "Triad (underground societies)", which you can easily replace with a more suitable name if you see it convenient. Thank you. Kreachure 20:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong article name 

message: Rankings like 49 translate directly to four-nine as opposed to forty-nine, does anyone know the proper term?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.140.90.197 (talk) 22:17, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Proper term for rankings

message: In the oath, what is the meaning of being killed by five thunderbolts vs. killed by myriads of swords, and is "myriads" a better translation vs. just "myriad"?
: I want to know this too.  Are the five thunderbolts some sort of punishment carried out that was lost in translation? Klosterdev (talk) 09:41, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Triad Oath 

message: The best translation for () is actually "criminal underworld", it is not equivalent to Triad. I have removed it from first paragraph. --Voidvector (talk) 16:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Could 'Black Society really mean the 'Invisible' or 'Difficult to See' Societies? 81.154.27.213 (talk) 01:53, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I've watched a few Hong Kong gangster movies and I've never heard of 三合會. Perhaps 三合會 is not as common a term for organized crime, or a more historical term.  Even more interesting, mandrintools dictionary definition for 三合會 is "Black society".  黑社會 is a more common phrase for Triad, and if you look up Triad in Google Translate, you get 黑社會.  I would suggest putting 黑社會 back in the first paragraph. 75.159.234.226 (talk) 20:23, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  黑社会 

message: That's a ridiculous claim. Virtually anyone who is computer-savvy is capable of software piracy, and most piracy groups are usually a group of young hackers that aren't bound by geography or ideology outside of wanting to crack software. Even if a certain group wanted to become a leader, it would be virtually impossible considering the massive distribution of internet access and the sheer number of people that are capable of the same activities. An "internet monopoly" in any industry is virtually impossible. I say that this part of the article should be removed if it doesn't have any sources. 74.56.236.39 (talk) 02:19, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, leaders in software piracy - for profit. Are you making a profit from downloading from the net? No. Bootleg DVDs sold on the streets of China do make a profit, and are printed illegally. -98.149.133.255 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment was added at 20:52, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leaders in software piracy!? 

message: May I suggest locking this article??
As you may have noticed, the Triad oaths have been vandalized.Si lapu lapu (talk) 01:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preventing Editing 

message: "It was estimated that in the 1950s, there were 300,000 Triad members in Hong Kong."
Further verification is needed for the above statement, as this puts Triad members at around 12-13% of the population of Hong Kong in 1950 (see demographics of Hong Kong). Tang, S., "A Modern History of Hong Kong", (London, I. B. Tauris, 2007) p. 127, puts the population at the time of Japanese surrender in 1945 at 5/600,000, and (p. 167) at 2,500,000 in 1955. Thus an assertion that 300,000 were resident in Hong Kong is dubious although, of course, I cannot demonstrate that this is not the case. At least it should be stated clearly that this is a claim by TIME magazine, derived from an article which is apparently about a T-shirt contest.
Further the assertions as to gang membership are un-sourced and hence I see no reason why they should be taken seriously.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.8.186.238 (talk) 01:23, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics 

message: Another editor has removed an unreferenced paragraph which was added by an IP user. It reads:
:The current Mountain Dragon of the secret society in the Asia-Pacific region is Jordan (Hao Zi) who wields influence and power over 120,000 Chinese gangsters.
__meco (talk) 09:14, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text removed (The current Mountain Dragon) 

message: This list of so many different racketeering crimes associated with triad groups seems pretty excessive to me. I think it'd be sufficient to say something like "Triad groups are associated with a large variety of racketeering crimes, including [name two or three] in the present day." This would need references, too. /ninly(talk) 13:41, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  No need to list all these crimes 

message: I just want to get my facts straight about leadership; is the Dragon Head the Godfather of all Triads, or are Dragon Heads bosses of individual Triads? 74.69.214.197 (talk) 05:15, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leader 

message: I am absolutely confounded by the sentence in this description at the top:
"Triad refers to the many branches of criminal idiots pingu based in Hong Kong, ..."
What on earth is 'criminal idiots pingu' supposed to mean!?
Is it griefing?
: The work of vandals on Wikipedia. Has been reverted. 119.56.125.35 (talk) 16:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I want to meet the Vandals operating at Wikipedia! what a great opportunity to learn about a culture believed to have been extinct for centuries!!! and they operate in China now too... Does anyone know if the Visigoths are extant as well? 2602:304:CFD0:6350:3C57:8251:B4A1:E753 (talk) 08:22, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "criminal idiots pingu" 

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=A4-cPOVH3moC&pg=PA373#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=jkitOBrsHyUC&pg=PA62#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=HRQZhAFacQoC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Guderyean (talk) 05:52, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Triad history 

message: Interesting, in modern times.. TRIAD has 5 letters. Perhaps the rule of "3" is a cover and the world is an epic fail? Twillisjr (talk) 23:14, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Triforce. or are you new here...2602:304:CFD0:6350:3C57:8251:B4A1:E753 (talk) 08:24, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  TRIAD = 5 Letters 

message: Officer lifts lid on workings of the underworld by Yvonne Tsui, 16 October, 2009.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darx9url (talk • contribs) 07:34, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good source article to use 

message: Is it not a little redundant to say "organized crime organization"?2001:558:6012:5A:565:ABEA:FCDE:5BBD (talk) 19:19, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redundancy 

message: This page has no factual information to it and should be removed.  No citations, no evidence, no one should believe this!!! Cher8 00:35, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chin Haw/Triad 

message: I read through the oaths, and I was interested to see that although every single one of them ended with the offender being "killed by five thunderbolts" or "killed by myriads of swords", etc, there was one single line about 3/4 the way through that simply reads 
   "I must not covet or seek to share any property or cash obtained by my sworn brothers. If I have such ideas I will be killed."
No thunderbolts? No swords or knives? Is this one line different for a reason, or did someone just accidentally cut off the end of the sentence? AnnaGoFast (talk) 22:20, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  36 Oaths