Talk:HMS Panther

message: There was an HMS Panther which supposedly ran aground at Panther Point (Wallace Island) in the Southern Gulf Islands of British Columbia in 1874.  Is that yet another HMS Panther that is not already listed here? Nola chi (talk) 22:20, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There was no Royal Navy ship named Panther in service in 1874. Where have you got this information from? Does it specifically use 'HMS Panther'? Benea (talk) 22:25, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which Panther? 

message: the sloop hms panther was in the gibraltar bay when admiral Don Antonio Barcelo tested his new weapon in the night of june 26 1780 and damaged her. Olecrab (talk) 18:45, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ship's captain was named Duff (source: september 1779 newspaper). Olecrab (talk) 19:54, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  >> found him as George Duff. Olecrab (talk) 19:56, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you sure that this is not the fourth rate HMS Panther (1758), then the flagship of Vice-Admiral Robert Duff in 1780? Benea (talk) 21:48, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

text: That's a possibility, newspaper only mentions "Admiral Duff". here it is (and here). harvard university scanned 18th century newspapers printed in luxembourg. I've translated Old French to Modern French in the french wiki article for don antonio barcelo if needed. let me know if you find about Duff. I'd like to know about a spanish chef d'escadre of this era named Texada. thanks. Olecrab (talk) 11:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

text: checked the english article, yes that's him he was at gibraltar in 1780 when ~don antonio attacked. good point. :) Olecrab (talk) 11:12, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: He was in early 1780 and fought off Barcelo's initial moves, but interestingly he wasn't when Barcelo attacked on 26 June. The Panther was there though, Duff having been succeeded by Commodore John Elliot, and on his departure, Captain John Harvey was the senior officer. Your newspapers have faulty intelligence I'm afraid in reporting Duff was in command at the time, this shows the importance on not relying too heavily on primary sources. Anyway, on the night of 26 June four gunboats, a xebec and two galleys approached the British fleet and fired on the ships, Panther being hit three times before the attackers were forced to withdraw by British fire. The boats were reported as being able to be rowed very fast, and being well built, but ill-finished. It was a very minor skirmish in the scale of things. Benea (talk) 12:31, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

text: er, what are YOUR sources please?  the newspaper says the attackers were not damaged by the british and had indeed to cease fire because of the daylight was too bright. british boasting about them is far more dangerous than good faith actual direct sources. btw how do you think the british were able to hold siege without external support since there was a blockade on the gibraltar bay? answered you on the Talk:The Defeat of the Floating Batteries at Gibraltar, September 1782. Olecrab (talk) 08:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Rif Winfield's book on British warships and their commanders in this period is an excellent place to start. Duff and Harvey both have entries in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, you'll need a subscription to view them though. A history of the siege of Gibraltar, 1779-1783 by John Drinkwater remains one of the most detailed day to day studies of the campaign. Duff left for England with Rodney's fleet on 14 February 1780. (Drinkwater, p. 48) They left two sizeable ships, the 60-gun Panther and the 74-gun Edgar, the latter under Commodore Elliot who became the senior officer on the station. Barcelo resumes the blockade on 27 February. When Elliot departs, Harvey, who had been captain of Panther under Duff, as the senior officer, becomes commander of the small naval force. I'm not sure what this 'British boasting' is, I never stated the craft were damaged, I said they retreated under British fire. And are you expecting me to believe that your newspaper is any less prone to bias, particularly given its provenance and its reporting events that had only just occurred? See WP:PRIMARY why this is a particular problem. Since you at first declared the vessel mentioned in the report as being the sloop Panther, not the fourth rate, and her commander an entirely different officer altogether, I question your interpretation of this source.  How did they keep the garrison supplied? Well they broke it several times with the entire fleet, but the records are full of the comings and goings of ships, packets, merchants, cruisers bringing in prizes, etc. This was not an especially tight blockade, though it was certainly problematic for the garrison. Barcelo made several attempts to strike at the British forces, making an attack with 5 fire ships on 7 July, which failed. Benea (talk) 09:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: sloop panther