Talk:Ahmed Omar Abu Ali

message: I saw discussion above in relation to the relevance of this persons case, casting him off as merely a 'terror suspect', or as the case may be, a 'terrorist' per the American court in which he was tried.  Allow me to touch on the relevance of this article, which seems to not be addressed even slightly.
The ratio decidendi of this case was based on one primary source of evidence, from the little I have read so far in the matter it appears that if the confession video were removed from the evidence put forth in the case, the ratio would have been overturned and he would most likely been found innocent as guilt cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt.  If this was a common law court and not a criminal court matter, where one only has to prove reasonable probability, then the ratio decidendi put forth may be in some way legitimate.
We have the following facts; the video is the primary source of evidence short of third party post-actus documentation (cia / intel reports), there was no prima facie case against the individual, there were allegations that the video confession was made whilst the defendant was placed under duress or coerced for evidence through alleged torture and finally the defendant had recanted his confession (I am unsure whether he did, but the act of placing allegations of torture would, to a reasonable judge, indicate that recantation was a definite.).
The fact this case was a whirlwind 3 day trial (when you consider that almost every criminal trial takes in excess of a year) it makes me ponder under what jurisdiction and in what court was this matter tried?
I will gladly attempt to fix up this article as I truly feel that it illustrates a great misjustice and a totally inappropriate knee jerk reaction / judgement on behalf of the court involved.  If the video is taken out the coin would have landed on the flipside, therefore if a case is only as strong as one piece of evidence the case is questionable at best.
Perhaps someone can fill in the blanks on the following questions for me?
* What jurisdiction was this man arrested in? (Was he in the US?  The interrogation was carried out in Saudi Arabia, was he flown there from the US?  If so, why?)
* Did this man have a bail hearing?  If so, in what court/country/jurisdiction?
* If not, was there a presumption against bail?  What substantiating reasons were given for the presumption?
* What court was he tried in (Or part of the judicial heirarchy, to me it sounds like a court martial and not a civil court; further who was the magistrate / judge in the trial?)
* What other pressing evidence was presented? (Does anyone have a fact-sheet from the case, or a reference I can look at to see the case files and perhaps a transcript?)
Those are the tip of the ice berg, but if someone is willing to take a leap of faith and play devils advocate with me in this matter, it'd be interesting from a legal point of view to illustrate just how malicious and unjust such cases which are becoming more and more common, Australian citizens are being charged under the new 'terrorism' laws because they allow for much more leeway for police to detain / interrogate people, all based on 'suspicion', and I'm talking your average citizen here, if there was a social, racial or religious stereotyping going on (as wrong as that is) you could possibly understand the narrow minded nature of the arresting agent/officer, but we're talking the 'average aussie' being treated like Osama until proven innocent, I personally have had dealings with being arrested under that act but released four days later without charge and I'm a non-threatening looking 'caucasian' 'christian'.
I can't stress enough the importance of this case as it sets a precedence that someone can be convicted in an American court based on one single confession allegedly taken under duress and then recanted.  You can tear up your acts and legislation on civil liberties now; they no longer exist as long as this decision by the court is held based on the facts I have read so far.  So please, prove me wrong, frankly this whole matter disturbs me greatly. Jachin 04:37, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ack, just realised some of the questions above are moot and already answered, ignore that; I blame cold and flu medication.  Regardless, links, transcripts, info -please-. Jachin 04:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Relevance & Article Clean-up

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