Talk:Aleinu

message: In the Hebrew, it only says va'anachnu korim, but not umishtachhavim umodim.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.229.214.147 (talk) 03:38, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Hebrew

message: The start of the article says,
Aleinu (Hebrew: עָלֵינוּ, "ours" here to be understood as: "it is upon us" ...).
עלינו (aleinu) does not translate to "ours" at all, in modern Hebrew, liturgical nor biblical Hebrew. "Ours" in liturgical and modern Hebrew would normally be שלינו (sheleinu). על (al) means on/upon. So that, "ali" = upon me, "alik" = upon you man, "alayik" = upon you woman, "aleinu" = upon us, "alav" = upon him, "aleikem" = upon y'all men. Al also has declension as above, as in the last passage בשמים ממעל, ba-shamayim mi-ma-al. Incidentally, the Israeli airline El-Al connotes forward-upward ==> forward to the firmament above. 
Hence Jewish Anderstein (talk) 18:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ours?

message: The prayer was originally the introduction to the "kingships" section of the Rosh Hashana Musaf prayer. Therefore, I'm pretty sure the second paragraph was part of that.--Anon.
:Yes, Rosh Hashana Musaf includes both paragraphs.  Yom Kippur Musaf includes only the first paragraph.  At a later date, the first paragraph was added to the end of each service (in some traditions, shaharit only).  Luria/Vital held that one should use both paragraphs at the end of all services, and add the verse about "on that day the Lord shall be one and His Name one"; and this has been accepted by Ashkenazim and Oriental Sephardim, while the Spanish and Portuguese still use only the first paragraph.  If there are no objections, I shall edit the article to reflect this.
:Incidentally, I have frequently attended both Sp.&Port. and Oriental services, and the wording of the "controversial passage" is invariably "shehem mishtahhavim le-hevel va-riq u-mitpallelim el ēl lo yoshia", in other words the same as the article gives for the original Ashkenazi version. I have never come across the bit about "carrying wooden idols": can you give me any authority for that?  One website (http://www.morasha.it/sbr/sbr_somekh.html) claims that Italian Sephardim (but not the Italian rite proper) have changed it to "she-HAYU mishtahhavim", they USED to worship.--Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 12:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) on all points here. -- Olve 22:45, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A few more questions 

message: #Identifying the cantorial tradition used in the sound files, would be helpful
#Shouldn't the whole text be included?
#Can someone with access to R' Reuven Hammer's statement from Or Hadash, i.e., the one quoted in the article, please verify that he actually wrote "Aleini" and not "Aleinu"?  I realize some Ashkenazim actually say "Aleini", but I've never seen anyone actually write it that way.
Tomertalk 05:53, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  a few questions/recommendations for this article 

message: The earlier form of this prayer contains an additional sentence:
:It is our duty to praise the Master of all, to exalt the Creator of the Universe, who has not made us like the nations of the world and has not placed us like the families of the earth; who has not designed our destiny to be like theirs, nor our lot like that of all their multitude, For they bow to vanity and emptiness and pray to a god which helps not.
(Some Sephardi and Italki communities have a slightly different form of this sentence: who carry their wooden images and pray to a God who cannot give success. )
I have removed the above sentence; it isn't a different form of the prayer. It is exactly the same sentence, obviously with a slightly different English translation.  The Hebrew is the same; the translation varies a bit in every siddur. RK 01:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's rather what I thought.  The "wooden idols" is a reference to the verse in Isaiah which forms the basis for the passage, rather than to the passage itself. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 09:54, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing a sentence

message: I'm not sure how common it is, but I know that my congregation bows during the line "Va'anachnu qor`im, umishtachavim umodim" and then stands up at "lif'nei".  Should this be mentioned? soldierx40k 16:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bowing?

message: Does any one know about this - is it - as often - an error?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/27/christians-under-pressure-bigotry-school-imprisonment-murder
"the attackers painted graffiti on the wall calling for the “destruction of false idols” – part of a Jewish prayer known as the Aleinu."  Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 09:23, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's in the second paragraph, which is not reproduced in the article: it hopes for the day when the world will be put right under the rule of God and all idols will be destroyed (Reform translations say "prejudice and superstition shall be cut off"). It's an aspiration for the ultimate future, not an imperative for the here and now! --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 10:17, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Many thanks - perhaps it could be usefully added - but perhaps it would not be so useful or might be problematic. Any best wishes, (Msrasnw (talk) 11:11, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aleinu and “destruction of false idols” 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Aleinu. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120401012421/http://www.jrf.org/edu/faqs.html; to http://www.jrf.org/edu/faqs.html;
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Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 20:20, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is there a reason why it's OK to put copyrighted text on this page? Seems like a clear-cut issue to me but it's been there a while so maybe I'm missing something. GordonGlottal (talk) 14:35, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyrighted translation? 

message: “Have no fear of sudden terror…” in Jonathan Sacks authorised daily prayer book… where does that come from? 148.252.129.218 (talk) 09:33, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some congregations add