Talk:Maria Alexandrovna Ulyanova

message: I'll repeat my position here, so that other editors don't need to wade through the discussion above.
I do not think it is reasonable to add Category: Russian Jews to this article because:
* Ulyanova's father deliberately gave up his Jewish heritage at the age of sixteen, converting to Orthodox Christianity.
* Neither Ulyanova nor any of her siblings were raised as Jews.
* There is no evidence that Ulyanova ever self-identified as Jewish.
* No respected historian has ever identified her as Jewish.
* The article itself does not say anywhere that she was Jewish.
Wikipedia is not in the business of going against established historical consensus; we are here to reflect existing opinions, not create new interpretations. -- Hux (talk) 22:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for Comment: Ethnicity of Maria Ulyanova

message: How can a woman whose ancestors were so called Dagö Swedes from Moonsund Archipelago, kin lived there since 1564, be of Jewish origin. They lived in Suurupi (Stora Uppnäs) village. During the Great Northern War 1702 or 1703 they escaped with their large fishing sail ship to Sweden. One of the kin settled to Uppsala, 60 km north of Stockholm. His name was Östedt and he was a Swedish Protestant as can be clearly seen from the Uppsala Church books. One of his decendants by profession handskmakarson Carl Gustav Östedt was invited by President of the Russian Academy of Arts, Ivan I. Betsky to Imperial Russia in 1782. He took with him his family, wife and his daughter Frederika Anna Beata Östedt. Carl Gustav Östedt headed the first Russian school of goldsmiths and become later a Russian citizen. He died in 1826 in St.Petersburg and was buried there. His widow followed him in 1838. She was Vladimir Iljitsh Uljanin´s grand - mormor. 
Frederica Anna Beata Östedt was Vladimir Uljanin´s grand mother. She had at least one daughter Maria whose father should be, according to article, by forename Ivan as Maria was Ivan´s dotter if it is to believe the main article of her roots. According to the main article Vladimir´s grandfather was a Russian Jew from Volhynia, born in Starokonstantinov. He was baptized to Orthodox Faith at St.Petersburg in 1820 at the age of 16. His new baptized name was Alexander Dimitrijevitsh Blank. Alexander to honour his famous godfather Councelor Alexander Ivan´s son Arpaksin. The second forename Dimitri´s son to honour his brother´s godfather Dimitri Baranov who seems to have been son of the Alexander Andrei´s son Baranov, a Karelian origin knjäz from Kargopol pogosta near Arch Angel, the first Governor of Alaska and president of the Russian - American Trading Company. Quite a ceremony for Volhynian Jew marrying Swede born woman in St.Petersburg. But then one read from this complicated kin history that Alexander Dimitri´s son Blank enters on 24.07 1824 into Saint Petesburg Academy of Medical Surgeons. Then one read 19.07.1824 Alexander Blank graduated his medical school with diploma of surgeon - obstetetrician. He worked in the town of Porechye in Smolensk Governorate. Soon he returned back to Saint Petersburg and worked as a police or santarm medical doctor, then in the Naval Department. In 1837 he started to work in Mariinski Hospital. His wife Anna Groschopf died in 1838. In 1842 he married a widow od the Government Offical of XII class, Jekaterina Ivanov´s daughter Essen. This second marriage was childress. In 1842 he moved to Perm, then Zlatoust. In 1847 Alexander Dimitri´s son retired from service and bought the estate of Kokushkino or Janasala, with 39 souls (serfs), in Kazan Governorate, about 40 versts east of Kazan. There Alexander Blank lived as respected landowner to 1870 when he passed away to meet his Lord. He had with his first wife six children, one son and five daughters named; Anna, Ljubov, Jekaterina, Maria, and Sofia. Their son Dimitrij commited suicide at the age of 19 because of gambling dept. All five daughters married elementary circulating school teachers named Veretennikoff, Uljanin, Zhalesk, Lavrov, and Ardashev. Maria who married Ilja Nikolai´s son Uljanin, an Mordvin Erzä (Erzya) of origin. She was born on 06.03.1835 just three years before her mother died in 1838. They were married in 1866. At first the young couple lived in moderate house at Penza both teaching in local elementary school. Later they moved to Nizhny Novgorod, and then to Simbirsk. It was in Simbirsk where Ilja Uljanin Russificated his name to Uljanoff. The first child, Alexander was born on 1866 only to be hanged on 08.05.1887 at Petrokrepost prison. The famous younger brother Vladimir was born in 1870. Ilja Uljanoff died in Simbersk in 1886 not to see his son senected to death penalty. In one stage Maria asked her nato to take care of the young Vladimir and he moved to Kokushkino after his brother´s death to live there almost a year as said "out of the sight". 
But there is one point in the story I do not understand. Sometime (but when?) after 1842 a woman ask her brother´s Alexander Blank´s new wife, a widow Jekaterina Ivanov´s daughter h.k. Essen with her new name Blank, to take care of her daughter´s children; Dimitrij, Anna, Ljubov, Jekaterina, Maria, and Sofia. The children of Anna Groschhopf (from Suurup) and his brother Alexander Blank. Jekaterina Ivanova Essen agreed and took all to her arms and started to act as step mother for the children and married Alexander Blank who both women knew before. Alexander Blank must have been lived also among those 2.000 Swedes which lived in Dagö or more exactly in Suurup village. They must have been kin to each other or neighbours dotters. In 1781 the Russian Empress Jekaterina the Great deported half of the Swedes c.1000 people from Dagö to so called New Russia in Ukraina to the Azov Government where they founded their new village named Gammölsvänskbi (Staroshveds´ke.) Alexander Blank was one among those those 135 who managed to walk there. All the remaining 865 did not. In surroudings came the German emigrants, so called Volga Deutsch who built three villages around the Gammölsväskbi named; Schlangendorf, Mülhausendorf, and Klosterdorf, all four Lutherian villages in faith. The Germans built also a church there and invated their Swedish faith brothers to take part in common church services. This is why some sources give for Vladimir´s mother´s kin so complicated roots.  
Then this name game came clear to me. Groschhopf is in German Grosshopf, in Sweden Storhopp, in English Greatjump, In Finnish Suurhyppy, In Estonian Suurloik. The name of the village in Dagö, Hiiumaa, Hiidenmaa. Village Suurupi is shortern Estonian version of name Suur - Upin niemi (Great Upnäs). In Finland´s side of the gulf is at Porkkala udde Cape Upnäs or Upinniemi. They all refer to same village located at Dagö (Day Island) where Great Cape Upnäs is located and a village named Suurupi.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.112.46 (talk) 17:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Something Is Totally Wrong