Talk:List of sovereign states in Europe by date of achieving sovereignty

message: What date of independence should be written here ? When declared or when granted ? Bogdan | Talk 23:38, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: What date?

message: I'm not certain the 1603 date is appropriate.  My understanding is that while the English and Scottish monarchies were united after that year, England and Scotland remained legally separate countries (with completely separate Parliaments) until the Act of Union of 1707.  Most historicians seem to prefer 1707 as the year of union over 1603.
:That's completely correct.  England and Scotland were seperate kingdoms until unification in 1707.  The relationship between Scotland and England before this point was like the relationship between Australia and New Zealand today: two completely seperate countries with the same monarch (in this case Elizabeth II). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.79.195.61 (talk) 23:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Great Britain

message: Portugal is independent from the Kingdom of Leon since the day that Afonso I of Portugal was proclaimed King, that is  July 26 1139 (after the Battle of Ourique). By 1143 this was recognized by the King of León and in 1179 by the Pope. The correct date, therefore, is the one of proclamation and acclamation by the first assembly of the estates-general at Lamego, where he was given the crown from the archbishop of Braga (to confirm the independence) - 1139. The Ogre 16:39, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Portuguese independence

message: there are enormous factual and methodological problems with this page.  About half of the claims are disputable, and far more explanation is needed to say why these dates are chosen.  Nay be better to use neutral dates, such as those used by Norman Davies.  (Stpaul 20:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Factual problems

message: Here's the link  from European Journal of International Law; there are the opinions and conclusions of Badinter Arbitration Committee. Kubura 11:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dissolution of SFR Yugoslavia

message: This list seems to be confused between two concepts. Is it trying to give the first date on which each "volk" was organised into a separate political structure, or the last date from which each modern state became fully sovereign? For a few countries such as France, the two are arguably the same, but in most cases they differ.
How about splitting the list in two? I think both lists would be useful and can be verified, but at the moment it's just a confused mess.
— FIRE! in a crowded theatre... 12:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Two concepts

message: To show how much you're right just look at an example of Serbia. On this list is listed as the last in Europe, regardless of the medieval principality, kingdom and empire, or contemporary Principality of Serbia and Kingdom of Serbia which is formally recognized at Congress of Berlin in 1878.--89.172.9.143 (talk) 15:21, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: it is great idea

message: This page had some major problems so I have made many changes and the process is still on going.
*"sovereign state" rather than "country" should be used
*The page is not just about independence as some countries were never dependent
*The title of the page has changed because of the previous points
*Only current European sovereign states should be listed
*The page introduction has been simplified and since shortened further
*An extra type of formation was added but I'm still unsure about it
*More references should be added and the current references should be written properly
*Many other changes that I can't be bothered listing
The date of formation of the UK is an issue. Should it be the date that England and Scotland became Great Britain or the date that Great Britain and Ireland became the UK? The latter would seem to make more sense but it's a question of whether Great Britain was the UK under a different name or whether it was a different sovereign state. I had a lengthy discussion on Phoenix's talk page (see above). Other people's comments are welcome to be listed below here. McLerristarr (talk) 13:45, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Great job. But I am really unsure about the inclusion of the flags into this article. They are a bit large and they do make this page look a bit unencyclopedic. -- Phoenix (talk) 21:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Ok it is getting a bit illegible now. How about either removing the Predecessors section altogether or merging Predecessors with Sovereign state & Current official name. -- Phoenix (talk) 07:31, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It depends on your monitor. I didn't realise the size of the table would change depending on the size of the screen. I customised it to my widescreen monitor and it looks fine, everything is on one line, but I edited it earlier today on another computer and it was all over the place. I really don't know how to fix it. For now, I'll merge the Predecessors column with the name column. McLerristarr (Mclay1) (talk) 08:36, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Can you think of a good way of merging the columns? I've tried making the name column have 2 rows per cell but apparently it won't work (or I did it wrong). McLerristarr (Mclay1) (talk) 13:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea cant really read anything on a standard monitor. The info your looking for can be found at Help:Table. Hope that you find that useful :-) -- Phoenix (talk) 20:37, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Major revision

message: I've noticed the column width has been changed and apparently "fixed". I don't have a square monitor so I can't tell if it still looks bad or not. Is it actually fixed? From what I can see, the widths for the first two columns are set as the same as before but they appear wider for no reason. McLerristarr (Mclay1) (talk) 12:45, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I can actually read the text now if that is what you were asking :-) -- Phoenix (talk) 04:53, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

text: How about doing something like what I did above? -- Phoenix (talk) 05:02, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Ok then lets get rid on the Predecessors section since it is already covered in the Milestones section. -- Phoenix (talk) 07:18, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Ok I just removed the Predecessors column. It is very complicated to create what we were talking about Help:Sorting#Limitations. If you wish to try to create this, it will require a lot of work, but it is possible. -- Phoenix (talk) 22:35, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Columns

message: Seems for me it should be fairly clear the year to use for Sweden should be 1523.  Greswik (talk) 18:06, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Sweden]] and the [[Kalmar Union]] 

message: It is true that Germany was reunited in 1990, however, I believe it is more accurate to say that Germany achieved sovereignity by 1871 as the German Empire. The Federal Republic of Germany is established in 1949, but didn’t include East Germany or Saarland. 84.196.96.148 (talk) 09:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germany sovereign by 1990?