Talk:Fascist Italianization

message: Italianization was a natural process in Istria over the time because the diferences betwin slavic, usualy workers, and italians, usualy masters, work like a pressure factor.In this case every slvic who become rich people in fact become italian.
By the other way italians were the symbol of culture (e.g. Renaissance)and normaly slavic people try be integreted into a herittage of roman emperium.Over the century the italianization was a peacefuly process that means was accepted and wanted by slavic.
In relation with the germanic it is better to observe what is happend in last 100 years with romansh in Gritschum and with italians in Ticino (Swisse).The germans press in south by 1000 years, Swiss colonization in detriment of the romanic(french,italin and romansch)it is the main proof.Italianization against the germanic?It is not true.
About the relationship betwin french people and italians we have to see the situation of Nisa.At the begining of the xix century was a italian city and now italian language was vanishid from area.Italianization in relation with french?Where?
IN THIS CASE I ASK FOR URGENTLY MODIFICATION OF THIS PAGE BECAUSE IT S CONTENT IS MALICIOS AND ANTI-ITALIN.
BY THE WAY I AM NOT ITALIAN.
--proturism 04:12, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither the Italians if we think that a population who lives in a region for 1300 years can't be considered autochtonous. GhePeU 11:11, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

text: This is true, but I don't think that we can adopt this approach, I prefer to assume that someone who lives in a region for more than two centuries can be considered native. If the Dalmatian and Istrian slavs are not autochtonous of a place where they live since VII century, what are they? GhePeU 09:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

text: We can discuss this but, please, edit without removing all the wiki tags. I can agree on the removal of autochtonous, but by removing that term there is no need to specify when Slavs, Germans or French arrived in the area, nor when Italian arrived: the articles on Germans, Italians and Slavs are linked. Also, this article is about the italianization policy; we all know that the adoption of ethnic policies isn't an Italian peculiarity, but the repression of Italians is off topic here: there are specific articles, like Foiba and you could write an article on Alpenvorland. GhePeU 12:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Giovanni Giove, what is this ?
What kind of behaviour is that? 
Are you on a some kind of crusade on denying of Croatian toponyms and belonging of Eastern Adriatic to Croatia (you especially have a pick on Croatia and Croats), and removing any connection of those areas with Croatia and Croats? Kubura 05:46, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Giovanni Giove, are you trying to show us example of violent italization of Croats and Slovenians? Kubura 08:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not hiding anything. If you check the article history, you can see that I'm removing only the headers, who I find unnecessary because most of them divide the article in sections with a single sentence (and because of bad wording). The exceptions are one clearly non neutral sentence ("Italianisation attempts are still to be found today", "use of Internet for spreading Italian irredentist and revisionist propaganda") and another sentence which has clearly some problems, because it backs a pretended quote ("funny Slavic names") with a Regio Decreto regarding Trento, where there weren't Slavic names at all.GhePeU 08:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Explain this behaviour 

message: About non-neutrality of sentences "Italianisation attempts are still to be found today", "use of Internet for spreading Italian irredentist and revisionist propaganda".
If you think that we're fools over here, on the other side of Adriatic, than you're wrong. Kubura 09:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Italian Constitution Art. 6: "La Repubblica tutela con apposite norme le minoranze linguistiche." (The Republic safeguards by means of appropriate measures linguistic minorities.) And about the "irredentist and revisionist propaganda" I think that after the Yugoslav Wars, you can hardly present Croats, Slovenians, Serbians and Albanians as the most shining examples of toleration. GhePeU 10:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

text: This article is about the Fascist Italianization.--Giovanni Giove 20:13, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Read well and stop wiht usual useless accusations. Your reference is still inserted, the areas the same (with the correct name). The page was not disembered, but splitted in two indipendent article, because the "Fascist Italiaization" had the 90% of the space of "Italnization".--Giovanni Giove 08:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italianization attempts today 

message: I have proposed a merger of this page back with the Italianization. There is no reason to breake article's subsections into different articles. Clearly this is against Wikipedia's policy. --Raguseo 02:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Forced Italianization of Dalmatia and Istria occured in several periods: during Venetian occupation of Dalmatia (1409-1798) - Venetianization, during Italian administration in the area in 19th century and finally during Italian fascistic years in 20th century. This last Fascist Italianization was ideologically based on previous attempts and was meant to be finalization of it. Articles should be merged. Zenanarh 14:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

text: The article is correct as it is, it was recntly splitted. Italianization is a linguistic, historic, cultural phenomena. The fascist italanization is just a small aspect of this (and the worst, BTW). Other claims by R and Z. are disputable POVs. The same article is present even in the Italian, Norvegian and German wikipedia. --Giovanni Giove 23:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fascist Italianization is part of the same phenomenon of Italianization. There is absolutly no reason to divide it like this. --Raguseo 22:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That was it was done in 4 different Wikipedias.--Giovanni Giove 23:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't care about Italian, Norwegian and German Wikipedia, my concern is English Wikipedia. --Raguseo 00:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger 

message: The edit below is total vandalism.
You, User:Ghepeu, have no right to delete entire paragraph just because you do not like to have your dirty laundry here displayed.
It is well known what Napolitano said and when.Documented very well!
We can talk abou the POV , but you may not delete it!
--Anto 13:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bullshits. The "Napolitano quotes" are fabricated, the amnesty by Togliatti was about the Italian fascist in the public administration, not about the military. The Italian constitution explicitly protects the ethnic and linguistics minorities, the Italian state finance German- and Slovene-language schools, and every year, for example, contributes 3 million euros to the Slovenian newspaper published in Trieste. GhePeU 19:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Here is a video from Italian tv station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw9FRBBiKkw
For those who do not undestand Italian here are some websites for translation:
English-Italian Dictionary by WordReference
English-Italian Dictionary by ECTACO
English-Italian Dictionary by Fredict.com
English-Italian Dictionary by Ultralingua
Babel Fish Translation
From Italian Press
*Corriere della Sera
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Politica/2007/02_Febbraio/10/napolitano.shtml
Il dramma del popolo giuliano-dalmata fu scatenato «da un moto di odio e furia sanguinaria e un disegno annessionistico slavo che prevalse innanzitutto nel trattato di pace del 1947, e che assunse i sinistri contorni di una pulizia etnica». Lo ha detto il presidente della Repubblica, Giorgio Napolitano, intervenendo nel Giorno del ricordo delle vittime delle foibe, le cavità carsiche nelle quali, tra il 1943 e il 1945, vennero fatti sparire migliaia di oppositori al regime di Tito . «Non dobbiamo tacere - ha aggiunto il presidente, che al Quirinale ha incontrato gli eredi delle vittime -, assumendoci la responsabilità di aver negato o teso ad ignorare la verità per pregiudiziali ideologiche e cecità politica» il dramma del popolo giuliano-dalmata. Una tragedia, ha spiegato, «rimossa per calcoli dilomatici e convenienze internazionali».
Translation into English:
The drama of the people Giuliano-Dalmatian was triggered "from a motion of hatred and bloody-thirsty fury and a Slavic annexionistic design that prevailed in the first place in the peace treaty of 1947, and that assumed the left contours of one  ethnic purity". It has said the president of the Republic, George Napolitano, taking part in the Day of the memory of the victims of the foibe, the carsiche cavities in which, between 1943 and 1945, they came made to disappear migliaia of oppositori to the regimen of Tito . "we do not have tacere - it has added the president, that to the Quirinale it has met the eredi of the victims -, assuming ideological prejudicial the responsibility to have denied to us or stiff to ignore the truth for and political blindness" the drama of the people giuliano-Dalmatian. A tragedy, has explained, "removed for calculations diplomatic to us and international conveniences".
*L'Unita
http://www.unita.it/view.asp?IDcontent=63493
Napolitano ha quindi voluto richiamarsi esplicitamente al suo predecessore, Carlo Azeglio Ciampi, dicendo che ne raccoglie l'esempio circa «il dovere che le istituzioni della Repubblica sentono come proprio, a tutti i livelli, di un riconoscimento troppo a lungo mancato» delle tragedie di un intero popolo di istriani, fiumani e dalmati, che al confine orientale dell' Italia, dopo l'8 settembre '43, furono vittime di un «moto di odio e di furia sanguinaria e di un disegno annessionistico slavo che prevalse innanzitutto nel Trattato di pace del 1947 e che assunse i sinistri contorni di una pulizia etnica». Una tragedia la cui memoria «ha rischiato di essere cancellata» e che invece, ha aggiunto il capo dello Stato, deve essere trasmessa ai giovani nello spirito della legge del 2004 che ha istituito il Giorno del Ricordo.
Nell' autunno 1943, ha aggiunto Napolitano citando recenti riflessioni e ricerche, «si intrecciarono giustizialismo sommario e tumultuoso, parossismo nazionalista, rivalse sociali e un disegno di sradicamento della presenza italiana da quella che era e cessò di essere la Venezia Giulia». «La disumana ferocia delle foibe fu una delle barbarie del secolo scorso, in cui si intrecciarono in Europa cultura e barbarie. Non bisogna mai smarrire consapevolezza di ciò - ha sottolineato - nel valorizzare i tratti più nobili della nostra tradizione storica e nel consolidare i lineamenti di civiltà, di pace, di libertà, di tolleranza, di solidarietà della nuova Europa che stiamo costruendo da oltre 50 anni, e che è nata dal rifiuto dei nazionalismi aggressivi e oppressivi, da quello espresso nella guerra fascista a quello espresso nell' ondata di terrore jugoslavo in Venezia Giulia. La nuova Europa esclude naturalmente anche ogni revanscismo».''
Translation into English:
Napolitano has therefore intentional to explicitly recall to its predecessor, Carlo Azeglio Ciampi, saying that of it collects the example approximately "the duty that the institutions of the Republic feel like just, to all the levels, of an acknowledgment too much to along lacked" the tragedies of entire people of istriani, fiumani and Dalmatian, than to the border orient them of Italy, after the 8 september ' 43, were victims of a "motion of hatred and bloody-thirsty fury and of a Slavic annexionistic design that prevailed in the first place in the Peace treaty of 1947 and that assumed the left contours of an ethnic purity ". A tragedy whose memory "has risked to being cancelled" and that instead, has added the head of the State, must be transmitted to the young people in the spirit of the law of 2004 that has instituted the Day of the Memory. In autumn 1943, it has added to Napolitano citing recent reflections and searches, "interlaced highly summarized and tumultuous giustizialismo, paroxysm nationalist, availed again social and a design of uprooting of the Italian presence from that it was and it stopped of being the Venice Julia". "the disumana ferocity of the foibe was one of the barbarisms of the slid century, in which culture and barbarisms were interlaced in Europe. It never does not have smarrire knowledge of that - it has emphasized - in valuing the nobler features of our historical tradition and in consolidating the lineamenti of civilization, peace, freedom, tolerance, solidarity of the Europe new that we are constructing give beyond 50 years, and that it is been born from the refusal of the aggressive and oppressive nationalisms, from that expressing in the fascist war to that expressing in the big wave of Yugolav terror  in Venice Julia. The Europe new excludes also every revanscism naturally ".
*La Repubblica
http://www.repubblica.it/2007/02/sezioni/cronaca/foibe-memoria/foibe-memoria/foibe-memoria.html
Napolitano ha voluto richiamarsi esplicitamente al suo predecessore, Carlo Azeglio Ciampi, dicendo che ne raccoglie l'esempio circa "il dovere che le istituzioni della Repubblica sentono come proprio, a tutti i livelli, di un riconoscimento troppo a lungo mancato" delle tragedie di un intero popolo di istriani, fiumani e dalmati, che al confine orientale dell' Italia, dopo l'8 settembre '43, furono vittime di un moto di odio e di furia sanguinaria che assunse i sinistri contorni di una pulizia etnica". Una tragedia la cui memoria "ha rischiato di essere cancellata" e che invece, ha aggiunto il capo dello Stato, deve essere trasmessa ai giovani nello spirito della legge del 2004 che ha istituito il Giorno del Ricordo.
Translation into English:
Napolitano has intentional to explicitly recall to its predecessore, Carlo Azeglio Ciampi, saying that of it collects the example approximately "the duty that the institutions of the Republic feel like just, to all the levels, of an acknowledgment too much to along lacked" the tragedies of entire people of istriani, fiumani and Dalmatian, than to the border orient them of Italy, after the 8 september ' 43, were victims of a motion of hatred and bloody-thirsty fury that assumed the left contours of an ethnic purity ". A tragedy whose memory "has risked to being cancelled" and that instead, has added the head of the State, must be transmitted to the young people in the spirit of the law of 2004 that has instituted the Day of the Memory.
--Anto 09:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What has Napolitano said ??? 

message: I have protected this page for a week because of ongoing edit-warring. Protection isn't an endorsement of the current version; please discuss the article here rather than continuing to edit war. If you are agreed in advance of the week expiring as to where to take the article, please list at WP:RPP; if you need an urgent edit place  here with details of the edit and an administrator will come and deal with it. Stifle (talk) 18:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: I quoted the Napolitano statement because I wanted to sow an example of obviuos xenophobia by very important person in today Italy. I did not quote some hooligan from the street, neither some declared far-right leader(such as Roberto Menia or Gianfranco Fini).
Napolitano is leftist, a communist.
Massimo D'Alema is also leftist. Recently he requested the change Treaty of Osimo. He describe the threaty  as injustice.
--Anto 18:45, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fascist is not Irredentist 

message: Here's some literature
ˇZbornik radova s Međunarodnog znanstvenog skupa Talijanska uprava na hrvatskom prostoru i egzodus Hrvata (1918. - 1943.) , Hrvatski institut za povijest : Društvo Egzodus istarskih Hrvata, Zagreb, 2001, ,  .
The book is the monography of Croatian Institute for History/Society of exiled Istrian Croats, from International scientific meeting on the topic: Italian rule on area of Croatia and the exodus of Croats (1918-1943).
Mihael Sobolevski: Egzodus Hrvata iz Rijeke u vrijeme D’Annunzijeve vladavine : (rujan 1919. - siječanj 1921.), magazine Rijeka, nr. 4/1998-99, p. 67-86 and nr. 8/2003, p.59-68. Magazine Rijeka ISSN 1330-6995.
This should help. Kubura (talk) 13:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literature about