Talk:Evolutionary taxonomy

message: This is a reaction to the deletion of the word "cladism" in the article, systematically replaced by "cladistics". As far as I know, "cladism" is not pejorative and there is a real difference between cladism and cladistics. Cladism is a school of systematics, also called "phylogenetic classification" by its supporters, whereas cladistics refers to principles and methods to produce cladograms and reconstruct phylogenies. Cladistics must not be opposed to evolutionary systematics as it is done in the text because evolutionary systematics does not reject cladistics and uses it as well to reconstruct phylogenies. Evolutionary systematics must be opposed to cladism as it was written. Cladism is a short word for "school of phylogenetic classification", just like "pheneticism" is a short word for "school of numerical taxonomy". As in this last example, the use of phenetic methods like sequence trees does not imply allegiance to pheneticism. The confusions cladistics/cladism and phenetics/pheneticism are confusions respectively between the two activities of reconstructing phylogenies and creating classifications. --Iossif63 (talk) 21:55, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. This is why we say "cladistics maps phylogeny", not "cladism maps phylogeny". Sminthopsis84 (talk) 05:57, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This one was an error. Sorry. The others were correct I think. --Iossif63 (talk) 18:53, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I still disagree with your subsequent change. When one talks about a technique, I think it should be cladistics. When one talks about an attitude, that would be cladism. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 01:34, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Cladistics is a statistical method for uncovering phylogeny. Phylogenetic nomenclature is a way of classifying organisms. It is quite possible to use the cladistic method to make traditional evolutionary taxonomy, indeed most evolutionary taxonomists do. When we refer to the "cladistic classification" or "cladism", we should use it's proper name, which is phylogenetic nomenclature or phylogenetic taxonomy, to avoid confusion with the method. Petter Bøckman (talk) 08:07, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the nomenclature comes after the classification has been established. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 08:17, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't blame me, phylogenetic nomenclature is what it is called. Petter Bøckman (talk) 09:37, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Nomenclature concerns the names that are used and what receives a name, it doesn't involve the setting up of the groups that receive the names. Thus, nomenclature is not a way of classifying organisms; nomenclature is a sub-part of taxonomy. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:03, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Petter is right, though. The International Society for Phylogenetic Nomenclature is misnamed since its refusal to recognize that paraphyletic groups are valid taxa is not really a nomenclatural matter. We're stuck with the usage, though. Coconut milk is not milk. A marsupial mouse is not a mouse. Phylogenetic nomenclature is not (merely) nomenclature. Peter Brown (talk) 02:15, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

text: Nomenclature is not phylogeny. The same phylogeny can be classified in a number of ways. Evolutionary and phylogenetic nomenclaturists (is there such a word?) do for instance not disagree over where birds evolved from (easily the most cited example for the last 20 years), merely on whether to allow for a paraphyletic Reptilia. The traditional way of defining groups by traits is fully valid under phylogenetic nomenclature, the only difference here is that PN also have two other forms of definitions (node and stem definitios).Petter Bøckman (talk) 19:56, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  cladism vs cladistics 

message: Hello, I need a help from people with knowledge in systematics and taxonomy to discuss the :Template:SysTax. This template was removed from the pages where it appears for discussion and improvment. Thanks Zorahia (talk) 15:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template 

message: Much of the article below the "Origins" section is incredibly technical and jargon-heavy, particularly the section "New methods in modern evolutionary systematics". Furthermore, that section uses sources almost entirely written by a single person (Richard H. Zander), implying that that section may be giving undue weight to that person's work, without regard for its relevance to the article. I don't know enough about the subject to be able to improve it, but it needs looking at.
Skylord a52 (talk) 19:49, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Highly technical, reliance on single author