Talk:Jumping the shark/Archive 1

message: Perhaps the last sentence could be fleshed out.  --Daniel C. Boyer
:This has been done, or at any rate, the article has been substantially written in the ~2 years since the above comment. Ellsworth 22:40, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Last sentence

message: I don't believe the mention of Sealab 2021 is warranted. The show, in the instance of having a shark jump over a tank of Fonzies, was parodying the classic Happy Days episode, something that has been done by several other shows (most notably, The Simpsons and That '70s Show). This does not constitute a jump the shark moment.
I will delete that part of the entry in 48 hours unless someone can provide me with a rationalle for keeping it up. -- Redfarmer 17:18, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm totally with you on that. The Simpsons also parodied the idea of "jumping the shark" in the clip show "Gump Roast," where Homer literally jumps the shark. Strangely, on Jump the Shark some users have listed that as a moment when The Simpsons had declined. Szyslak 02:24, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Sealab 2021

message: In the "Examples of shows said to have jumped the shark" section are lots of examples I would not count as "jumping the shark." A lot of the examples are big changes to a series without making it worse, individual bad episodes, or gradual declines in quality over time - I think these don't count as shark-jumping. The article lays out fairly well that "jumping the shark" is a sudden and irrevocable hit, a point-of-no-return. Examples of things in the list which I do *not* consider to be jumping the shark: Louie Anderson's revival of Family Feud, Homer Simpson becoming "much stupider in later seasons", original Star Trek episodes which were terrible while the series itself remained strong until the end, and people watching Teletubbies to see if the purple character was gay. None of these are pivotal damning points in a series. - Brian Kendig 00:21, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Not jumping

message: Is the intent to upload the whole web site here? Most of these examples are highly subjective, and the categories keep elaborating on a few general ideas (e.g. a major cast change). Why not trim to the most blatant examples? Gazpacho 03:08, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, maybe a bit extreme, but I have no problem with it. However, I think just a couple examples could maybe be added into the text to illustrate the point. Not having them as a list would prevent it from growing to the bloated extent it had been. This would still have a few problems of subjectivity, so I won't really press it. -R. fiend 18:06, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: Was there really a specific bad decision during the course of Buffy, in an attempt to revitalize it, which ended up dooming the show thereafter? If not, then it didn't jump the shark. I didn't follow Buffy, but it seems to have remained strong through the end. - Brian Kendig 19:15, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: [plug] I'm a moderator on a discussion forum with a current and highly active thread asking when it jumped [/plug]; so far there have been about thirteen different suggestions (some vague - such as "the whole of season 6", some specific - such as "the wedding episode"), and several denials that it ever jumped at all. My personal vote went to the moment in season 5 when it became clear that the Buffy/Spike 'ship was going to be taken seriously; it looked like a weak attempt to draw in a bigger audience, and forced the whole story for the remainder of the series. I think that fulfils your terms... Kinitawowi 10:35, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to see a few good examples recovered from that list and put back into the article. The aforementioned Brady Bunch and Family Ties kid additions were certainly "jump the shark" moments. Another was Ellen; her "coming out" quickly turned the show into a commentary on gay issues and killed it within a season. - Brian Kendig 19:11, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: Well, the problem is all the shows are debatable; there's even a link right to the debate itself which is at jumptheshark.com. I do think some of the typical jump the shark moments can be illustrated with some examples (the introductions of the new kids seem to be the most clear examples for me, maybe becuase they're such a blatant ploy that is bound to fail). Bringing back the list in full, or even a substantial part, is not a good idea, I am now convinced. -R. fiend 19:32, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  My suggestion would be to have shows discuss their criticisms and shark jumping moments listed in that show's article.  Every show may end up linking here that way but that's probably more managable and easier to NPOV.  Also, this information is already available at jumptheshark.com so we don't have to really give too many examples anyway. :) --Sketchee 02:58, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
Unfortunately 'jump the shark' has become an internet meme, causing it to be applied to every single seemingly applicable situation.  I think its time to put this phrase away for awhile.  --69.181.75.37 19:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Length

message: A note to 205.188.116.73, 64.12.116.73, and others: Please don't delete other people's comments from this talk page. - Brian Kendig 02:38, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't delete stuff

message: I took it out simply because it's a theorised reference - every other one is an actual reference that occurred in the show, not an interpretation.  Lokicarbis 08:46, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
*I agree that it would be a marginal thing for most shows, but Buffy was always about subtext, so such an unstated refrence is to be expected; I'm saying it should be included. There was even a talking shark in one episode, for pete's sake. Thanks, Luc "Somethingorother" French 10:09, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of Buffy from References section

message: This is to Boarshevik: I saw that final clip where Homer jetskiied over the shark, and I'm pretty certain the song said "we'll have ideas for years" (especially because that flows a lot better). Anyone else who saw that clip please weigh in here. -RomeW
"Stories for years."  Fit better with the song.  100% it was.  (courtesy of your local unreggied 209.6.87.181 06:58, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Simpsons

message: HD may have produced 100 episodes after the shark jump episode - but they also stopped trying to have era-appropriate hairstyles and clothing, introduced Chachi... PMA 11:20, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Happy Days

message: In response to Clayworth's comments, I have created a new article called "List of shows that have Jumped the shark" and moved the complete list of entries to that page. A link to the new article is on this original page, located in the space where the original list was.
This list will differ from the JTS website in a few ways – there will be a limited number of short-lived programs (most short-lived shows are inferior programs whose JTS moment is "Day One"); and NO PROFANITY (the JTS site is littered with f- and sh- words, etc. in its entries). Otherwise, new additions can be added anytime so long as they are a legitimate JTS moment.
Hope this helps! User:Briguy52748 09:18, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand the desire to keep some of this, but the real trouble is that the whole list is subjective. No two people are going to agree about when this or that series "jumped the shark". Encyclopedias are here to provide factual information, not opinions. Imagine how much trouble we would get if we had an article "ten best television shows". This is just as bad.  Plus I think we had just such an article as proposed above, and it was voted for deletion. DJ Clayworth 20:16, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New Link

message: From the references section: "Other "shark jumps" can be found in previous episodes of Buffy, including the introduction of Dawn Summers, Willow's "coming out", the setting moving from high school to college, Angel and Spike's drastic character changes, etc."
I don't know if I can agree with this. As far as I understand, Dawn's appearance and Willow's coming out were planned well ahead. The change from high school to college was surely necessary, unless Buffy and Willow were such bad students in high school they'd have to go another year in high school to graduate.
Leaving aside whether or not one agrees that the incidents listed are Shark Jumps, the whole section simply doesn't belong here - this part of the article is about references to Shark Jumping, not actual incidents of it. Thus, I  have taken it out.  (Possibly it belongs in some other part of the article?) Lokicarbis 09:19, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
:I have to somewhat disagree with Buffy Season 6 entry in this article - 'Jumping the shark' usually equals pressing the panic button, but most of the 'shocking developments' of Season 6 were in fact planned years ahead. If Buffy ever 'jumped the shark' it was storyline of Season 7 which pretty much screams "we don't really know anymore what we're doing". Reason for apparent slump in quality had little to do with "unexpected revival" after Season 5, but simply that Joss Whedon was busy with Angel and Firefly, and had little time to dedicate himself to Buffy. --Mikoyan21 11:01, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buffy 

message: Gee, this seems very POV:
Fittingly, it's becoming more and more appearent that the show The Simpsons has jumped the shark, with new episodes paleing in compariston to earlier episodes to many people. Some of the most noticable aspects of new episodes that make them less funny is over-use of references to homosexuality, and violent family conflicts.
And I will delete it unless there's some very persuasive objections. MinorEdit 06:09, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
:Delete. Very POV. If you don't, I will. -R. fiend 06:41, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Simpsons info problematic

message: In the References in other media section, is it really neccecary to have the webcomics? It would be my thought that this section would be for well known examples, and I doubt that most people would have even heard of them. It seems to amount to self promotion. Even so, is there a need for two? --Poleary 15:50, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if we were to include them, the two that were there (now gone) were bad examples: One from a non-notable webcomic (i.e. one without an article) and the other was a background joke. The fact that nobody added the Basil Flint or Schlock Mercenary indicates we can probably leave webcomics out altogether. Nifboy 03:58, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Webcomics?

message: For those few (or many?) of us Stargate fans, it seems like the series is exhibiting some of the symptoms expressed in this article, and may be a great example to site in the aforementioned article!
Also, Under Format/Premise where it mentions "When the show is in an academic setting," a great example is "Saved by the Bell" & the famously short lived "College years". --Stux 01:26, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stargate & a bit more 

message: This page is about ten, fifteen times too long. Drop all the subjective examples, since the lot of you will never agree on which two examples are the most telling (that is, which two are /your/ favorite shows) and stick with a simple definition of the term and core example, and then link to either show pages, a new page with all these examples (NPOV my foot), or -- better yet -- jumptheshark.com. (I'm unfamiliar with editing Wikipedia pages; I believe I've properly added this comment, but please correct any stylistic error I've made here.)
68.95.224.34 17:39, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is Wikipedia? 

message: The special edition second disk has an interview with the Weezlies (sp) where they suggest sending the family to see Harry at the school.  The immediate response was "that would be a bit like jumping the shark"..
Also, title 10 chapter 79 of the disk.. inside a game where you play the knight running around the castle, there is a moat scene where a picture of a shark's fin is floating by the water, and you're supposed to click on a sword icon to jump over the moat (and the shark).
-- Sy / (talk) 23:33, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban 

message: The list of examples of shark-jumping moments seems to be getting back to where it was about a year ago, with people listing any potential shark jumping moment on any series.  For example, Roseanne and The X-Files have 3-4 different moments listed.  The list really needs to be trimmed to clear-cut examples, again, per the consensus reached above. Gershwinrb 23:32, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally agree. This article might as well be called "what I regret most about my favourite TV series". Most of the moments aren't shark jumps, and half aren't even major turning points in the series. Plots evolve. Characters come. Characters go. This article should really be restricted to bad decisions made by producers that in retrospect defined a turning point in the quality of the series. As in Happy Days, the shark jump didn't *make* the series bad - but the series before hand was, in retrospect, better. Similarly, any change that wasn't the producers' fault (eg, actor death or moving on) should not be here. Perhaps if we tighten the definition in the article it will be easier to throw out bad examples that get added. Stevage 20:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, now wait a moment. Agreed, certain changes – such as an key actor's death – aren't anyone's fault or something that can be controlled. However, all too often these moments change the course of the entire series. The actor's role is either killed off or assigned to a new actor, who may or may not be better than the origianl. Still, the change happened, it is noticable by the viewers and an appropriate "jump the shark" moment. My vision for this article is changes which are seen by viewers as contributing to a show's decline; death is one of those changes. BTW – it is listed [original JTS website]. 
[[Briguy52748 14:32, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

text: P.S. – To be fair, I will be consolidating some of the examples in the list. I originally created this list of JTS moment types (as a compromise to the original list of shows, which became an article and was later vfd'ed). I gave some specific examples, but not for every entry as I either could not think of an appropriate one or one was not really needed. I will be trimming the list further as time allows, but this will become a better article, that I can assure you of. [[Briguy52748 14:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that this needs to be trimmed and it needs to be vetted to remove attacks against shows. For example, there was no reason to list Enterprise as having jumped the shark since the change in format was actually critically acclaimed. And the death of a key actor is certainly not a shark jump - certainly I've yet to see anyone call it that with regards to West Wing losing John Spencer. The jumptheshark.com website has similarly gotten out of hand -- I mean there are shows there listed as having jumped on their first episodes. It's just an excuse to bash shows you don't like. IMO, "jump the shark" should be restricted to either creative and/or network decisions that were clearly detrimental to a series in some fashion. 23skidoo 15:02, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But didn't Newsradio tank after Phil Hartman was murdered? And Chico and the Man after Freddie Prinze comitted suicide?  The death of a key actor can be a jumping the shark moment,  as it was with these shows, though it doesn't have to be.  After all Night Court remained strong even though only three of the original cast memebers remained by the fourth season.  Cheers had some of its strongest ratings after Nicholas Colasanto died and Shelley Long left.  Hopefully this illustrates that what is a shark-jumping moment for one show might not be one for another, something that some of the editors of this list seem not to have realized.  And that changes to a series beyond a producer's control can cause a show to jump. Gershwinrb 01:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "jump the shark" is not a synonym for "suck" - otherwise this article has no point. Sure, Newsradio was worse  without Hartman. But it's not a shark jump - it's just a sad fact of life. The whole point of this discussion is trying to rein in this definition of the term which is getting so loose as to be pointless. Stevage 19:54, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm glad a few of our readers like the improvements. It should be noted 23skidoo describes exactly the reason I created the original "List of shows considered to have jumped the shark" article (which was later vfd for several reasons, including POV and that it got out of hand). The jumptheshark.com Web site has gotten out of hand and includes extensive profanity and short-lived programs. That said, we need to take our complaints to the JTS Web site administrators, not air our frustrations about it here. [[Briguy52748 22:49, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

text: This is a joke.  Some people are using this article just as an excuse to bash shows they probably never cared for in the first place.  What was up with the claim "War of the Gods" was a "jump the shark" moment for the original Battlestar Galactica?  If you read interviews with Larson, that was when the basic premise of the whole show was revealed, not when the show suddenly changed directions.  Rabidwolfe 03:05, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Getting out of hand?

message: On December 22, 1963, Bonanza aired "Hoss and the Leprechauns," in which Hoss Cartwright (Dan Blocker) met a leprechaun, and no one believed him when he said so. Several viewers logged onto the Jump the Shark site and said, "We used to call 'Jumping the Shark' 'Seeing the Leprechaun.'"
I was unaware that people were routinely logging into the Internet in 1963. Ewlyahoocom 16:17, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing verb tenses 

message: Constant repeat broadcasts of limited number of episodes, to the point where the shows have contributed nothing significant (e.g., Cowboy Bebop, due to the repeated airings by adult swim of the 26 episode series over the course of four years).
 
 
Is this a "jump the shark" moment for Cowboy Bebop? Cowboy Bebop's original run had already ended for 2-4 years before adult swim began its broadcast. 
Sauvastika 03:43, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cowboy Bebop? 

message: Why is the picture of Fonzie jumping the shark in black and white, even though the entire Happy Days series was in color?
Maybe that's how the camera operated when that happened?
:I think that is a promotional photo, not a live screen shot. 66.82.9.12 18:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The picture of the Fonz? 

message: I think this article is way off course, right down to the introductory paragraph. Jumping the shark is when a show uses a silly publicity stunt to try to boost ratings. That's what they did on "Happy Days"; it was stupid, it was out of character, it was poorly executed and unrealistic. But it wasn't a format change. Garry Marshall didn't sit down with his crew and say, "In this episode, Fonzie is going to jump over a shark, and from now on we're going to do things differently around here." It was just a throw-away idea, which was the big problem.
Replacing main characters with different actors is not jumping the shark; that's just trying to keep a show together when it has grown bigger than any individual cast member. People quit. People die. Shows go on. They always have. It's not "jumping the shark" when a Broadway musical is performed with different actors; that's showbiz.
Changing from black & white to color is certainly not jumping the shark. More people owned color TVs by that time and it was deemed worth the trouble to change formats. Saying that's jumping the shark is like saying that every show or channel that broadcasts in HD is jumping the shark right now.  
Bad writing is not jumping the shark. Bad writing is just bad writing. It happens. Many shows have had bad episodes, or even bad seasons, without any particular event considered jumping the shark. For that matter, any behind-the-scenes change shouldn't count; writers quit, producers quit... that's not something the average viewer literally sees happen on screen. There has to be one moment, one defining on-air scene. Jumping the shark in Happy Days didn't last a season or two. It was a few seconds. That's all. The Fonz was water skiing, he jumped over a shark, the audience groaned, and that was the end of it. It has to be one specific moment where it became visible to practically everyone that ideas were running low. If it doesn't fit that, it's not jumping the shark. It's just crappy TV. If we hold the examples to that standard, this will be a much shorter list. Kafziel 17:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kafziel – Your comments seem to indicate your problem is not so much with the article, but of the concept of "Jumping the shark" itself. You are correct in that TV shows go through changes over time; it's just when people aren't used to them, or when they seem to change the original funadmental premise of the show that a show JTSes. Each of the examples provided in the list have been cited on the JTS Web site as moments when the show made its "jump." Yes, I agree that opinions vary, but that's not the point. The point is, they are common JTS moments, have been cited as such and I say they should remain. [[Briguy52748 16:04, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Since "Jumping the Shark" was created and is promoted by its creator, who is an active contemporary figure, there should be no debate HERE as to what the term means: the correct encyclopedic thing to do is simply to use the creators definition. Anything else is by definition a statement of opinion. BarkingDoc 05:15, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Off the mark 

message: There's no way the regenerations of the Doctor could be considered jumping the shark because this is an intregal part of the show's format and is primarily responsible for the original series lasting for 26 years; it's not a "ratings trick" or a "desperation move" in any sense of the word; even the fast turnaround involving Chris Eccleston's Doctor is now known to have been pretty much planned all along. Similarly the "revolving door" cast on Law & Order doesn't count either as that's why that show has managed to survive more than 15 years. 23skidoo 15:10, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Doctor Who

message: Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems strange to me that wikipedia doesn't have an article on jumptheshark.com. I don't really have enough information on it to write it myself, but since the website is so unique, an article on how the website works or special features if has would be nice. Anyone? Karatloz 12:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't see how THIS is not an article on jumptheshark.com. It would be like saying there should be an article, not on the text or context of War And Peace, but on the book itself. There isn't a difference. BarkingDoc 05:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a ridiculous analogy. If you believe this article is actually about jumptheshark.com then go ahead and quote some text from the article that details that website. Karatloz is quite right, there's nothing in the article that explains how the website works or its special features, only a brief mention of the date it started. Anyone who had no idea what jumptheshark.com is would be no wiser after reading this article.  172.149.50.86 18:49, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see your point. All I meant is that most if not all of the information in this article is drawn from that website. But you are right, there is no indication here that that is the case.  BarkingDoc 20:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Website

message: The length and serious analysis in this article is a self-evident shark jump for Wikipedia.
Uh oh 
Even Wikipedia?
That's not good. 24.188.203.181 19:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia jumps the shark. 

message: As already noted by many people, the concept of jumping the shark and said examples are way too relative. Here are a few of the examples are in direct conflict of the purality responses at jumptheshark.com:
The Simpsons:  Never jumped : 1592 Next closest:  151 (Homer gets stupid) 
Boy Meets World: Never jumped: 67 Next Closest: 49 (Wedding)
Buffy: Never jumped: 771 Next Closest: 609 (Death - Tara)
ST: Enterprise: Never jumped: 98 Next closest: 63 (Day one)
Cheers: Never jumped: 187 Next closest: 133 (replacement)
M*A*S*H: Never jumped: 314 next closest: 195 (Alan Alda moralizing)
ST: DS9: Never jumped: 67 Next closest: 20 (Day one)
Miami Vice: Never jumped: 32 Next closest: 32 (Death - Spyder)
X-files: Never jumped: 421 Next closest: 224 (the movie)
These are just a few examples.  Now, you may or may not like these shows.  Some of these shows I personally don't like or never watched.  However, that doesn't mean they "jumped the shark" - even if rating went down hill. (History shows that User:Jvsett wrote this comment [[Briguy52748 23:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Jvsett – While your point may be valid, this remark probably should be referred to the administrators at Jump the Shark's Web site. [[Briguy52748 23:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Briguy52748 - My concern is that most of examples are overbroad and not really neutral. I mean, there appears to be a lot of bias and unwarrented examples of purported "jumping the shark".  I count over 70 differnt shows that are cited as jumping the shark; sometime in more then one way.  While its true that there may be a problem with the concept of Jumping the Shark, and that might need to be taken up with the original site, should Wikipedia really have such a convulated article?  Shouldn't it be edited to remove repeative ideas.  In addition, the concept really only applies to television. Should music or books be including?  Just my thoughts --Jvsett 01:44, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Jvsett – Let me give this some thought. I'm sure there are ways to improve this article, and perhaps a thorough revision is in order. I did once, I can do it again. [[Briguy52748 12:43, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep the page has WAY too many examples - clearly people are just putting in all their fave shows under the guise of adding examples to illustrate a point but how many do we need. I've been deleted chunks and cleaning up, but a lot more can be done. I removed many entries which basically duplicated other entries already in the article. There's probably a number more of them still there that can be deleted too. Asa01 08:23, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Major Revision needed

message: How about using Milli Vanilli as an example? After they were revealed to be lip-synching on stage, they fell into disgrace. But--counterexample--Jessica Simpson had a disasterous lip synch problem on Saturday Night Live, yet her career has not appeared to suffer.
I'm not an expert on popular culture or music, so someone else should write this up, if it's worth adding to the article. David 16:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ashlee Simpson was the one who had the lip sync debacle on SNL, not Jessica, and she never really had much relevance anyway. Milli Vanilli were simply exposed as the frauds they always were; I'm not sure if that counts as a shark jump since their career was based on a lie anyway, and a downfall was inevitable.Raymondluxuryacht 08:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Music 

message: Could you say a series has jumped the shark? Like with the same criteria as a TV series?
--EuropracBHIT 06:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Jumping the shark is usually thought of as a TV term, but it can be applied to pretty much anything. In fact, Jon Hein's book has sections for TV shows, music, movie stars and directors, sports teams and athletes, and even politicians.Raymondluxuryacht 08:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books? 

message: "Best known episodes include The Brady Bunch (including housekeeper Alice) on trips to Hawaii and newly opened Kings Island - a theme park owned by Paramount Studios, the show's producer, i.e. product placement."
Kings Island was not bought by Paramount until the 1990s.
: Agreed, before Paramount bought King's Island and it's sister park, King's Dominion, they were owned by King's World Entertainment which explains the random existence of Hanna Barbara characters in the kiddie sections of the park.  CritCol 15:59, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: None of this has anything to do with JTS at all! It does not need to be in this article. Asa01 08:24, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kings Island Misinformation 

message: I've been deleting the multi examples from many entries, then people come back in and add them back and add new ones. How many examples does each entry need? Concepts such as "main actor dies and show continues" aren't that difficult to understand that we need ten examples illustrating the point?! Now Will Geer dying and The Waltons continuing has been added. I never knew anyone thought that Geer's disappearance from that show caused it the JTS. Seems many of the examples are just examples of the situation described, but they aren't all instances where the situation in that example caused that show to JTS. Basically this is a very problematic article... Asa01 19:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are also way too many Music examples. Given JTS is primarily a TV series term, surely the music section should only be tiny and really doesn't need examples at all? Asa01 23:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think in recent edits, we have made a good-faith effort to cut down on the number of examples. Myself, I tried to think of only one or two, but then other editors keep adding more and more. Sigh! [[Briguy52748 20:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't worry, people are monitoring this situation. I'm always trimming them back out. And great work BarkingDoc keeping those examples down! Asa01 20:16, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Too many examples

message: perhaps as an example when one part of a series jumps the shark? 69.199.55.143 00:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Star Trek: Enterprise

message: To be more fair and even-handed, the Happy Days episode mentioned is indeed famous for the jumping of the shark, and is indeed referenced by several instances in pop culture.  However, it seems unimportant and dubious when or if the phrase was used in a particular fashion by some kids watching TV one day.  This is why this article might be considered vanity/unimportant. (67.110.214.131)
: EXTREMELY STRONG DISAGREE — The last two comments — "Jumping the shark jumped the shark" and "Importance" were submitted by anonymous user 67.110.214.131 — please remember to sign your comments using four tildes (~). That said, I wholeheartedly disagree with 67.110.214.131's comments. You state that the "JTS" phrase is referenced in pop culture. Well, there's a book and the listed examples of JTS spoofs within the article (e.g., The Simpsons couch gag opening; What's New Scooby Doo gag, etc.). To me, user 67.110.214.131 just doesn't like the page, which is fine. It's a phrase that has entered the common venacular, definitely notable and I feel the tag NEEDS to be removed pronto. [[Briguy52748 14:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely disagree with 67.110.214.131. I'm taking off the tags he added - especially since the one that states that JTS is a user page is completely incorrect! Rarr 21:45, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If I "don't like" the page, it's because I feel it serves only to dilute Wikipedia by referencing something unimportant.  The Simpsons couch gag referred to certainly references the Happy Days episode, but I think one would be hard-pressed to make the claim that the couch gag directly references the phrase "jumping the shark," as would one with most of the references in the article.  I disagree that the phrase has entered the common vernacular.  I've never heard it until I randomly came across this page.  Additionally, Jon Hein having written a (published) book about the phrase he himself coined does not by itself provide, IMO, validation for this as a notable subject.  The Amazon sales rank of this book is #474,989, only nearly outranking such books as "1,337 Spot Illustrations of the Twenties and Thirties," the point here being that anyone can publish a book about anything.  This article, at best, IMO, sits on the line of notableness. 67.110.214.131 01:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: *STRONG disagree. The term itself has been used by CNN pundits like Rush Limbaugh, been referenced in newspapers (somebody below me pointed out USA Today; I've seen it used as well in either Florida Today or The Orlando Sentinel, though I forget which), and numerous shows (NOT just the Happy Days episode itself. See: the Dharma & Greg reference, where after fan complaints about the previous season's finale the cast wore T-shirts that read "Jump the Shark"; the reference to one character's marriage "jump[ing] the shark" in Nip/Tuck; and the reference from the episode "200" from Stargate: SG-1). Not to mention the brief mention (in a NON-Happy Days context!) of the concept in the NYT Best-Seller America (the Book): a Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction! Just because you don't like the term doesn't mean it isn't commonly used, in the common vernacular, in the context described here. You say "I disagree that the phrase has entered the common vernacular". I say you're disagreeing with obvious, hard, cold facts. Sort of like saying "Google" hasn't entered the common vernacular as a verb just because it's also a real search engine's name. Language changes, love. Deal with it. And next time, do your bloody research before making a claim of non-notability. I mean, it's really bloody hard to Assume Good Faith when you seem absolutely blind to the idea of Looking Stuff Up To Make Sure You're Not Wrong. Runa27 08:06, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have heard "jump the shark" before I ever set foot on Wikipedia.  If you do a Google search for "jumped the shark" or such, you should be able to find numerous examples.  Examples of it used on [] (ZDNet blog), [] (USAToday.com), [] (Guardian.co.uk), [] (Chris.prillo.com), etc.  I've read in a Homestar Runner interview, at some point, that supposedly some fans had claimed it jumped the shark, and the creators commented on it in the interview. --AshyRaccoon  Talk | Contribs 12:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Importance 

message: You know, the below situations are very famous and widely reported. But then never really caused the actual TV show to JTS did they? Both show's carried-on subsequent to these off set problems. Asa01 23:26, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Off the set problems

message: I agree with Brian Kendig, vs. "Don't delete stuff"-- I really don't think my first post should have been deleted, and with 24.188.203.181 et al., pointing out the disproportionality between the length of this article and its lack of notableness.  It is in dire need of a rewrite. 67.110.214.131 01:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But I figured if this article had to meet that caliber, there would really be no references left at all.  Like hell. Learn to read, please. Even if you had really strict limitations e.g. it couldn't even be a reference to jumping over a literal shark, you'd still have the Dharma & Greg reference, the America (the Book) reference, the Nip/Tuck reference, the Homestar Runner reference, and Rush Limbaugh's usage of the term as well (though the latter seems not to have made the list, it did happen). Those alone show a surprisingly diverse group of notable enough people (*coughJonStewartcough*) use it and assume other people will know what it means. Yes, the list would be shorter if you limited it more, but as this article also is listed in the Happy Days category, it would not make sense, I don't think, to remove them all, unless they get to be well over a hundred, in which case I think it's safe to say we could start trimming or divide it out into its own list article. Runa27 08:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assent/Support 

message: I don't really think that the coment at the end of the Dora the Explorer Section was very neutral. SuperCooper
*What comment? oTHErONE 10:43, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dora 

message: In print, the term first appeared in the May 29, 1998 Jerusalem Post newspaper article, "It's All Downhill," written by Jeff Abramowitz.
I seriously doubt the term, which was coined in 1977, would first be used in print 21 years later, on the other side of the world. 
Ninetigerr 09:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "It's All Downhill" veritability? 

message: Isn't it kind of biased to say that when whats-his-name jumped the shark, it was not good ? Some people might have loved that episode, or any of these other ones.
Lost in Space jumped the shark pretty early on, but it had a good premise. --207.160.205.13 16:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The concept of "jumping the shark" is inherently subjective and POV, but this Wikipedia article is just giving info about that popular concept. This Wikipedia article itself isn't asserting that Happy Days got worse after Fonz jumped the shark, it's simply reporting that in pop culture, Happy Days is seen to have declined after that episode. We can give information about a POV topic in an NPOV manner. As for all of the examples given in the article: 1: They're generally taken from jumptheshark.com, which is seen as the source for "jumping the shark" data, and 2: The article states that the examples given here don't necesarily constitute "jump the shark" moments or suggest that the show got worse after that point. With that said, there are apparently worries on this Talk page that the article contains some original research, and that certainly needs to be addressed. -Eisnel 17:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  um, [[NPOV]] ? 

message: Was this revert an error? Those comments were inserted in all seriousness; the text still needs cleanup. -213.219.151.76 23:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why revert all the cleanup comments? 

message: I agree, someone needs to clean up this article.  For starters, commas and periods go INSIDE quotes, even if you are referring to an episode of a show, like "this."  There are a bazillion instances in this article where the period or comma appears outside the second pair of quotation marks and I don't feel like cleaning all of them up...but someone should. --Jaardon 06:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Somebody clean this up 

message: This 17-yard discussion on subjectivity/objectivity regarding 'jumping the shark' could not better epidomize how wonderful wikipedia is.  The excess, the interest in minutia, the insanity.  I love it.  It's messy, like Democracy and floor of the New York Stock Exchange.  It's supercharged with irony.  I have great hope for the future of humankind -- until we jump the shark. --Enkido 15:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seriously, this discussion is why Wikipedia is GREAT 

message: The section noting references to JTS, there are some listings which reference the actual scene of Fonzie jumping the shark. This article is about the phrase and it's current meaning (as per jts.com). I personally think that references to the original scene without any comment on the meaning of the phrase, needn't be mentioned here. For example:
:At the beginning of the South Park episode "Probably", during a flashback section continuing from the previous episode, there is a false-flashback parody of the Fonzie shark-jumping scene. In this version, the Fonz doesn't quite make it over the shark, and he is torn to bloody pieces. 
This example merely parodies the original scene, not the phenomenon of a show jumping the shark. I'd suggest deleting references to only the act of shark jumping where it's clearly not referencing the a show turning bad. TheHYPO 05:58, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The act or the term? 

message: Jumping the Shark was clearly defining moment for Happy Days.  Why isn't the Mork intro significant?  Did the 2 events happen on opposite ends of the spectrum?  Was "Mork" a time where the show was riding so high that they could basically do no wrong?  I mean, on the nonsensical scale of 1 to 10, the shark jump was just a 7 to 9.  Mork was as close to 10 as Happy Days ever got.  So isn't the metaphor more than simply the lengths to which the show will go, but it must also be on the decline?  Or maybe the phrase requires a reaction from the fans in response to the show's actions.
What if you reverse the 2 events so that Mork is introduced at the exact same point in the show's popularity and Fonzie jumps the shark while the show was still riding high?  Would the metaphor work as, "Bring on Mork"?  --JJLatWiki 20:25, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fonzie jumping the shark happened on 20 September 1977, but Mork first appeared on Happy Days on 28 February 1978. If, as you say, on the nonsensical scale of 1 to 10, the shark jump was just a 7 to 9, then I'd rate Mork's appearance at about 120. I think people remember the Fonz incident because it involved the best-loved character, and his ridiculous appearance in just a leather jacket may have had some profound effect. I don't know how they got away an alien on the show though. Mork & Mindy was set in the present-day 1980s, so Mork must have been a time-travelling alien as well, but then I would've expected him to do some time travelling in Mork in Mindy, but he didn't. Croxley 19:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about Mork? 

message: I believe one of Evil Knievel's last jumps was in 1977 preparing for a CBS special where he was to jump over a tank of sharks.  A practice jump went bad and Evil hit a cameraman causing the cameraman to loose an eye.  FWIW. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dougyfish (talk • contribs) 06:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evil Knievel 

message: I can't see how a list of dozens of references, which includes a bunch of webcomics that do a joke about jumping the shark, is appropriate for an encyclopedia.  It strikes me as excessively trivial and in violation of WP:NOT, as the only standard for inclusion that this information really passes is that it's factual, and Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Croctotheface 16:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many references 

message: I'm getting rid of this segment about "going to Greenland."  I've never heard anyone say "that show went to Greenland."  Besides, if only several people use the term, and you can't cite any instances or tell us who these people are, it's not notable. Twelvethirteen 19:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Went to greenland? 

message: Others have mentioned this. See http://web.archive.org/web/20000817233601/www.jumptheshark.com/about.htm
Changed 'coined' to 'popularized' Needs a rewrite, but the factual error is now omitted.
______________________
as far as I am concerned the phrase that is used in popular talk is
"over the shark" - like "it's gone over the shark"
I would have edited the main page with that very thing but
I get some kind of 'barn star' threat defcon level 5 warning
or some such shit threatening me
Thetiesthatbind (talk) 23:55, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hein did not 'coin' this phrase 

message: I used the Jump the Shark link from the Super Mario Bros. Super Show Wikipedia entry, and it took me tvguide.com, and it's currently a shitty website now. So, will somebody please re-write this whole article in regards to this. Coffee4binky (talk) 05:58, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: there a new site who replaced JumptheShark since TVGuide took over, it's called "Bone the Fish" http://www.bonethefish.com/ --Sd-100 (talk) 14:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

text: I went to the website expecting to find Jump the Shark info on the show Roc not knowing that TV Guide now owns it and has changed the content (and eliminated older content). It's official. Jumptheshark.com has Jumped the Shark Eauhomme (talk) 18:36, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless this is an article about jumptheshark.com, then the link does not belong in exernal links. The resulting TV guide content is borderline irrelevant, and seems to exist only to promote the property, not provide historical data. - JeffJonez (talk) 16:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Instead of simply stating that jumptheshark.com is defunct, there should be something about TV Guide buying it. Bizzybody (talk) 08:19, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  TV Guide Owns Jump the Shark Now 

message: More importantly: who wrote this? It's a very uneducated effort.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.221.92.70 (talk) 19:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like it was this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Addhoc  <FONT COLOR="#800000"><B>Haplolology</B></FONT> Talk/Contributions 11:15, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

text: WTF? There was NOTHING wrong with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jumping_the_shark&direction=prev&oldid=120759615  Ian-sama 09:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Wikipedians, please restore it.  I'm just an ordinary visitor, and I've seen some really bad writing on Wikipedia, but this deserves some kind of "huh? wtf?" award.  Who cares about some guy you've never heard of and some website you've never heard of that he sold to someone else?  Please fix. 83.252.164.90 17:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the 'overview' and 'origins' are pretty much the same...Chewy5000 (talk) 01:14, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: What happened to the article?

message: The photo of the fonze doesn't seem to be of him actually jumping a shark, rather it seems to be just before or just after the jumping of the shark. For one, he is not actually jumping and two, there is no shark. I am not sure which one it is, or if this is even a production still and if this shot of the fonze actually ever made it on the show (it could have been taken in between takes or while he was training for the shot), but the caption needs to be changed because he is quite obviously not doing any kind of jumping action and it does not involve any sort of shark JayKeaton 12:41, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Presumably there was no shark at any time, and likewise the actual jump would've been a stuntman. Fonz on skis is all you get.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.215.239 (talk) 11:21, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: According to the jumptheshark.com site, the phrase was first coined by Jon Hein's college roommate, Sean J. Connolly, in 1985.  On June 20, 2006, Hein sold his company, Jump The Shark, Inc., to Gemstar (owners of TV Guide).[5] The sale price was reported as "over $1 million". On February 28, 2007, TV Guide relaunched the web site, having moved it onto a new community platform provided by LiveWorld.com. “There's no Ty or a big bus, but JTS now offers real-time voting and posting, automated category tabulation, dynamic linking of shows across the site, and a facelift that brings the site out of the nineties,” stated founder Hein.[6][4] According to John DePalma, a well known linguist, the phrase has become extremely "trite and over used" and hence has lost its powerful meaning
This paragraph is badly written, confusing, and should really not be here. What the hell are they trying to say? Is this a commercial, shamless self promotion, or just bad writing. It also does not further explain the phrase, or its history. Sorry to point out the obvious, but who ever wrote this seems to miss the point.
: The preceding unsigned post was contributed by IP user 70.52.186.200 on 00:54, 18 July 2007. Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes (~). [[Briguy52748 03:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is not appropriate for any encyclopedia... 

message: Yes I did. This does not need to be any more than a stub.
: And your reasoning?  I liked having a list of shows that jumped...  144.226.173.68 14:03, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The preceding unsigned post was contributed by IP user 70.52.186.200 on 00:58, 18 July 2007. Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes (~). Now, with that said, were the statements you removed verifiable and NPOV, and could they have been re-written to read better? Perhaps. It seems to me the Web site is an important part of "jump the shark" and its place in popular culture and, if properly researched (it can be easily done, IMHO), should be included in this article. [[Briguy52748 03:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  So I removed it... 

message: Is the J the S event the tipping point (or a sign of the tipping point), or did it happen after the tipping point?  Do the circumstances indicate that the meaning should be, "desperate attempts to reverse declining popularity with increasingly unusual and surreal contrived drama"? Snowman 19:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think more a sign of the tipping point. The quote you give is apropos to the original meaning. Nowadays, we say the show has "jumped the shark" when they introduce ordinary but cliched elements (or too many cliches) as well. Example: The cute Jewish child (I forget her name -- Jeanie?) in All in the Family who was brought in when Mike & Gloria left. This was not particularly unusual or surreal, but it was a cliche which I believe contributed to the show's declining popularity. [urk! -- this was written by me, --Bluejay Young (talk) 18:58, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Tipping point or after the tipping point?

message: In the examples of Jump moments, many shows are listed that happen to have done something, regardless of whether it's a Jump the Shark moment or not. For example, the making of a movie based on the show cites The Simpsons, South Park and Family Guy amongst its examples. 
The Simpsons TV show is considered to have Jumped after the seventh season, long before the movie was considered for production. 
"South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut" was immensely popular and Oscar nominated and the show's quality has, by all accounts improved since. 
Finally, "Stewie Griffin: The Untold Story" was a major DVD success, and one of the key reasons the previously cancelled Family Guy was put back on TV. In all three instances, the movies had either nothing to do with the show Jumping the Shark, or in fact had the exact opposite effect.
I'm deleting those examples, but I'm pretty sure there are more in there.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Miracle Five (talk • contribs) 08:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Actual Jump moments 

message: The Office being listed as a show that jumped the shark on the basis of localizing a forgin tv show is not valid at all. The US office was like a good cover song, it just expanded on a great idea, and is very popular/successful. I don't think its possible for a show to jump the shark before it airs, making the US version invalid. The UK Office could not have jumped the shark this way, as the show was ended specifically to avoid this. It was classy and regarded as one of the best TV shows ever made before the US version was even considered. And besides, the US Office rivals the UK Office for quality. Both are great variations of the same idea and both have their independant identities and there was no attempt to extend the show through an unpopular period with gimmicks to make money: the number 1 requirement of a JTS show.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.208.210.98 (talk) 14:16, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I removed The Office US/UK 

message: I am suggesting that the X Files movie was not a 'jump the shark' moment.  I think it merely allowed the producers to tie off a potential loose end without impacting on the rest of the story.  My second point is that this entire article is hopelessly POV surely?  One man's 'shark jumping moment' is another's 'epic episode'.  Still a decent enough article though and good fun to read.  I never knew what Laverne and Shirley were singing at the start of the show...  :)  Darth Doctrinus 09:47, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What editors believe is 'jumping the shark' is neither here nore there. What reliable sources are being cited to back up any such statement? Blackmetalbaz 02:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The X Files 

message: The little grey shark jumps over the lazy surfer (video from Smyrna Beach, USA):
91.82.138.41 (talk) 12:43, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  This time for real! 

message: I understand from this discussion page that a 'Uses in Popular Culture' section was removed from the main article, just thought I'd add one here since its especially relevant to the origins of the phrase.
In an episode of Arrested Development they got Henry Winkler to jump over a toy shark on a quayside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jm6B31HKBw
Just thought I'd mention it.
81.174.148.164 (talk) 19:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Fonz jumps a shark again, in a popular reference to the phrase. 

message: Since TV Guide bought out and shut down jumptheshark.com all links to it on Wikipedia are dead and should be removed. Likewise all links to jumptheshark.com pages archived on archive.org The Web Archive now claims it doesn't have any of them due to robots.txt I call shenanigans by TV Guide on that! The content WAS archived prior to the buyout. TV Guide had to have "requested" the Archive remove the content. Bizzybody (talk) 08:24, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No shenanigans there.  TV Guide bought the site, that means they own all the content and can do whatever they want with it, including delete it and block the archive.  Let this be a lesson to people about wasting so much effort creating user generated content for commercial, non-free licensed, websites. 184.19.140.98 (talk) 12:03, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Its too bad what TV guide did, buying the site and getting rid of all the content. This site called "Bone the Fish" took up the mantle but I guess that's "spam" to link it.  It's too bad but I won't fight for it's inclusion until I have a stronger argument to include it.  The most interesting man in the world (talk) 20:31, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  jumptheshark.com link cleanup 

message: Given the similarities, I think a link to Cousin Oliver Syndrome should be added. Certainly more common than 'Nuking the Fridge'.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.155.69.123 (talk) 09:47, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cousin Oliver Syndrome? 

message: This removal seemed pretty arbitrary, coming on the heels of my first visit to the page. Now that I read it and see (all) the above back to '07+-, I really wonder if we want to eliminate (rather than, say, improve) the Jon Hein origin(-myth?) of the whole page.
I leave it here for now. Discussion? Swliv (talk) 03:10, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  New to this 

message: I deleted the sentence claiming that "jump the shark" "is synonymous with 'the beginning of the end.'" What?? How are the two phrases remotely synonymous? It makes no sense. All sorts of cultural, physical, and political phenomena reach the point where they are at "the beginning of the end" and it doesn't mean that they "have reached the point of diminishing returns such that they are no longer interesting," which is what JTS means.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isoruku (talk • contribs) 21:32, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Beginning of the end" deleted. 

message: Jumping the Shark has an antonym called Growing the Beard, an expression I heard in passing at the Straight Dope Message Board. My inclusion of a TV Tropes link to Growing the Beard was reverted and labelled "Original research" and "Not notable". I am puzzled. The research isn't original to me.  Are TV Tropes and Urban Dictionary, both of which have entries, considered non-authoritative? Are they both non-notable? I think not, but I would be happy to read further elaboration. Search engines certainly generate a fair number of results for "grow the beard jump the shark". Also, FWIW I've never heard of "Nuke the fridge". 
Evidence against: I'm not sure I've ever heard the expression, "Grow a beard", without a contrast to "Jump the shark". And the idiom "Grow a beard" doesn't show up in Google Books. Regards, Measure for Measure (talk) 08:47, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You nailed it about TV Tropes and Urban Dictionary being non-authoritative; both are user-created content, and therefore not reliable sources for our purposes. oknazevad (talk) 09:40, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antonym: Growing the Beard 

message: In each case, the "example" cites who used the expression and in what context, as well as clarifying how the situation "jumped shark."  The example for Burning Man is short on citing who used the expression (invoking the mysterious passive voice), ergo giving no context for the statement.  The example does not clarify how the event, in this case, actually jumped shark.  I made edits that do both of these — which were then summarily reverted.  It appears the Burning Man paragraph has gotten somewhat tendentious and it would be far more productive and collaborative to discuss this here to improve the article, rather than getting into a contentious series of reverts — exacerbated by profanity.  This is what I suggest:
::In mid-2014, the City Manager of Black Rock City, Nevada described Burning Man, an annual event at nearby Black Rock Desert, as having "jumped the shark," when the 2014 event — which had been previously noted for core values of radical self-expression and self-reliance — featured incongruously posh VIP lounges, cell phone towers, private jets, and "glamp camping."
:::Hi, I'm sorry I made a mistake in reverting your rewrite - I like it and I've reverted my mistake. All I intended to undo was your second change to say "...creative effort's evolution abandons its core values" - simply because evolution doesn't have core values, it's the creative effort that does, so it's weak grammar. Anyway, sorry again for clumsily reverting two edits rather than just undoing one. Squinge (talk) 20:42, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, thanks.  Now, can we discuss that it really means to Jump Shark... it's not just the point where something declines... it's where it loses touch with its core reason for being... right? 842U (talk) 00:17, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think that's right. Squinge (talk) 10:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

text: The question isn't, imho, are these example quotes from notable people, but rather do they illustrate accurately how the expression has broadened from television into other areas of culture — which is the point the article is making and the point the examples are ostensibly presented as supporting.  In each case, the example does that: it's the correct expression (jumped the shark), it's used in another area of culture besides television, and it means basically the same thing as the original use of the phrase.  And each example is reliably sourced. So while Dan Neil is in fact a Pulitzer Prize winner and Rush Limbaugh is in fact a person of note, what the mayoral quote also demonstrates is that the expression "jumped the shark" is still being used in 2014 and it has filtered further beyond the realm of notable people.  842U (talk) 18:49, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples 

message: Happy Days was already old and tired when the jumping the shark episode aired. It was the moment when even the die-hard fans had to admit it was time to bury the series. I was only five years old and I still remember how absurd that episode was.
"Jumping the shark" means making a desperate bid for attention that flops and only results in embarrassment.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.71.89.45 (talk) 17:40, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  No, it does not mean "when it begins a decline in quality." It means the end. 

message: I've read the above comments and concerns on the original approach used for describing "nuking the fridge" here, and bolded added a new single paragraph about the term into this article using highly reliable sources (including interviews with Speilberg and Lucas acknowledging the term, and how JtS and NtF are closely connected).  Please review to make sure this is appropriate and meets the concerns of this. --MASEM (t) 19:38, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: As a comment on this edit that claims NtF's relationship to JtS is original research, nearly all the sources I used (but I know offhand at minimum the Newsweek one) explain that NtF is the film world's variation of JtS. There's no original research there. --MASEM (t) 14:56, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Talk about a flash-in-the-pan phrase.  It's absurd that the good editors here at wikpedia are perpetuating that Time Magazine brain-fart. The Dissident Aggressor 03:50, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: A year later from the last comment, I think the section about the term needs to be removed.  8 years after its "viral" uptake, it does not appear to be in use. The virus died. Toddst1 (talk) 19:49, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: While the term died out, that doesn't mean it's short bit of note as a subtopic of a notable sustained term is completely appropriate to include. There would be reason to delete an article on Nuke the Fridge, but not remove as associated with jump the shark. --MASEM (t) 02:01, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nuking the fridge  continued 

message: Fred Fox confuses popularity with quality, a common mistake.  the fact that the episode had so many viewers or that the show remained popular is not evidence that the show continued to be a quality show.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:6:5600:5AC:9DEA:C3C2:AF6F:BE49 (talk) 02:07, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fred Fox confuses popularity with quality 

message: The first sentence credits Jon Hein with creating the phrase, while later, the article credits his roommate.  Should this be clarified at all?  Obviously Hein created the website and can be credited with the term's popularity, but it sounds like he didn't coin the phrase itself.  -KaJunl (talk) 02:58, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair point - the sources are clear Hein pushed on popularizing the phrase even if it originated from his roommate so I changed the lede to reflect the subtle diff. --MASEM (t) 03:16, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Created by Jon Hein