Talk:Needtobreathe

message: NEEDTOBREATHE recorded a cover of Go Tell It On the Mountain sometime. I can't remember any other detail about it. Free (talk) (HRWiki) 19:30, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Go Tell It on the Mountain

message: The Reckoning song "Oohs and Ahhs" is the featured music on the History channel's "Taking fall to new heights" new ad spot, worth a mention?  Have nothing to link to, but it's them and that song on the spot. WikiWikiPleaseDon'tPostMyIP!19:54, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: History Channel

message: I updated the needtobreathe page. They have had a lot of news come out about their upcoming album and documentary, so I decided to add it.
here's the blog post on their website....
http://needtobreathe.net/blog/new-tour-album-update/
also here is the update on their documentary...
http://needtobreathe.net/blog/prove-the-poets-wrong-trailer/
This info came directly from their website. Why did you take it down?
PrestonDrake (talk) 03:04, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither self-published sources nor blogs make good sources. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:51, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

text: You might want to assume I know that and you might also want to read what I linked above at "good sources" and focus on the Primary Sources section. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:24, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

text: Those are not the definition of a good source, simply a source. Under "Questionable and self-published sources" you see "Self-published and questionable sources as sources on themselves". Then below that you see a section on "Primary, secondary, and tertiary sources" which links to a different article discussing that. In short, until a secondary source discusses an album release, it's just self-promotion: an attempt to keep fans interested. If a secondary source repeats a "press release" or tweet, then it's not fact-checking. If a reliable source discusses the upcoming album or publishes a review, then we should start talking about the album, not before. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:55, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needtobreathe New album update 

message: I started an article for Needtobreathe's latest album Rivers In the Wasteland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_In_the_Wasteland_(Needtobreathe_album)
I need help updating it... although it hasn't been released, it needs dates added for the singles, album cover updated, general info, critical review, etc. 
For any contributors, please note that all the words are capitalized in the album title except "the". Do not capitalize "the" or lowercase "In".
Mask of Mayhem (talk) 19:20, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved it to :Rivers in the Wasteland (Needtobreathe album), which is the correct capitalization, and I fixed some of the layout issues. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:29, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Walter Görlitz please provide the source for your assertion that "Rivers in the Wasteland" is the correct capitalization. iTunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/rivers-in-the-wasteland/id794126187 and other retailers show the correct Capitalization as "Rivers In the Wasteland" Jaynehendry (talk) 17:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that Walter is referring to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization). Royalbroil 02:24, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  More broadly, :Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters and if you want to see a place that uses the same capitalization MoS: http://www.allmusic.com/album/rivers-in-the-wasteland-mw0002616980 iTunes and Amazon capitalize every word and that is a different (and incorrect in my opinion) MoS. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:34, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Rivers in the Wasteland'' 

message: Made a change for the Needtobreathe page and it was reverted back. However, if you look at several of their interviews they have continually denied being labelled a "Christian" Rock band due to the fact that it can be a somewhat exclusive title. Just thought you'd like to know.
209.119.87.3 (talk) 18:40, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: They may deny an association to that genre, but reviewers and their acceptance of awards in that category speak against that. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:09, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian Rock 

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*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20140517013654/http://www.billboard.com:80/artist/312088/needtobreathe/chart to http://www.billboard.com/artist/312088/needtobreathe/chart
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: ,
I want to cite a few sources confirming that NEEDTOBREATHE is an American rock band that has had crossover success in the Christian music market, not a "christian band." NEEDTOBREATHE creates music that is intended for a broader audience than the label 'christian band' implies. The band does have Christian influences and they have received accolades/awards from Christian music organizations because they acknowledge their success in that particular market, but much like the band Switchfoothttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchfoot the members of the band are Christian by faith, not genre. Not only does NEEDTOBREATHE consider themselves to be a rock band as they recently elaborated on in an interview to Rolling Stonehttp://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/needtobreathe-talk-christian-stigma-experimental-new-lp-w435672, there are many credible media outlets that describe them so as well including Billboardhttp://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7453892/needtobreathe-third-no-1-top-rock-albumshttp://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/7502764/needtobreathe-tour-essentials and The Associated Press http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6ed3336f702a4e60b14818666ece80e2/needtobreathe-hit-stride-expansive-new-album-tour. Please also see the language in a recent article and interview by theCharleston Post & Courierhttp://www.postandcourier.com/20160924/160929738/needtobreathe-heals-after-hitting-rough-patch-is-back-on-national-tour where they are described as "southern rockers" and also discusses their influence and success in the Christian market. 
NEEDTOBREATHE's latest album H A R D L O V E debuted at #1 on the Billboard Top Albums, Top Current Albums, Top Rock Albums and Top Alternative Albums charts and #2 on the Billboard 200. http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7453892/needtobreathe-third-no-1-top-rock-albums
Please also read this recent article from The Tennesseanhttp://www.tennessean.com/story/entertainment/music/2016/09/23/needtobreathe-remembers-tough-journey-ascend-amphitheater/90908604/ which calls them a rock band and says, "“H A R D L O V E” and the group's current single "Happiness" also shows up on Billboard’s Christian music charts, but that’s a label the band doesn’t claim. Rinehart explained NEEDTOBREATHE members are Christians and their values may make it into the music they write, but that they’ve spent their careers avoiding potentially lucrative opportunities that would have “pigeon-holed us in a faith-based world.”
“Now we don’t think about it very much,” he said. “We grew up with incredibly conservative backgrounds. Our parents would let us listen to Christian music only, which is a big reason we didn’t want to have our records just in that world. We wanted to have them in all kinds of places.""
Also see this quote from NEEDTOBREATHE's keyboardist Josh Lovelace in a recent interview with The Knoxville Sentinelhttp://www.knoxnews.com/entertainment/music/needtobreathe-works-hard-to-show-their-fans-their-love-3ce4168e-fe15-5a3e-e053-0100007f4714-394451421.html: "We're very open about our faith and it does inspire us, but we can't compare ourselves with a Christian artist. We don't do the same things and we're not trying to promote the same things, if that makes sense.""
NEEDTOBREATHE is an American rock band that is signed to Atlantic Records.http://www.atlanticrecords.com/artists/needtobreathe  The band today recognizes their strong following among the Christian market, yet continues to write music that appeals to fans across all genres.
Kaileypearce (talk) 00:34, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That's awesome but doesn't not cease to make them a Christian rock band. Christian music artists have had higher sales in the Billboard 200. http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/475277/tobymac-earns-first-no-1-christian-album-on-billboard-200-since-1997. And other Christian bands have topped other non-religious, non-Christian, and non-gospel charts.And I'm super happy that you dug up some of the press that you and the rest of the management team convinced them to say about being Christians and not wanting to be pigeonholed. Switchfoot's management did that before you all did that with Needtobreathe, and now they're regretting it. They've ceased to be popular on mainstream radio and festival circuit and they have had to go hat-in-hand to the Christian marketplace and be who they are. The real problem is, what do you do with their Christian music awards? There are Christians who have made music and never put their name into the Christian industry. I have no problems with them doing that. That's not the case with Needtobreathe and you'll be hard-pressed to convince me otherwise even with lots of interviews. I didn't give up on Tim Lambesis until he came out and renounced his faith (and he seems to have an epiphany moment while in prison, but the jury's still out on that one. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:52, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It could be worded "an American rock band identified with the Christian rock genre", or something like that. If they are trying to move away from that genre pigeonhole, then this information can be expressed in the article's content if there are sources for it. But we cannot avoid mentioning in the lead their primary current identity - those numerous "Christian rock" awards listed in the article would not have been given out for a rock band who just happened to have Christians in it. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:09, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  American Rock Band 

message: Response to third opinion request:
This one is pretty simple. The sources in the article state that Needtobreathe are an American rock band and a Christian rock band; I mean, the lead section even states this. Thus, they should be classified as an American Christian rock band (there is a :Category:American Christian rock groups, you know). Erpert blah, blah, blah... 22:17, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It could be worded "an American rock band identified with the Christian rock genre", or something like that. If they are trying to move away from that genre pigeonhole, then this information can be expressed in the article's content if there are sources for it. But we cannot avoid mentioning in the lead their primary current identity - those numerous "Christian rock" awards listed in the article would not have been given out for a rock band who just happened to have Christians in it. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:09, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Third opinion

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050322094922/http://www.doveawards.com/categories/ to http://www.doveawards.com/categories/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140416210245/http://www.independentmail.com/news/2010/aug/20/cornerstone-assembly-god-welcomes-new-pastor/ to http://www.independentmail.com/news/2010/aug/20/cornerstone-assembly-god-welcomes-new-pastor/
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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: While the band has stated that they are Christians who play rock music, we have more than enough in the way of sources to support the genre. Complete removal is simply ignorant and falling into their marketing. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:59, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read this entire talk page if you want an explanation for why they are classified in the Christian Rock genre. Royalbroil 04:02, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have agreed not to revert to that consensus, but an :WP:SPA made a change away from the genre. Would you mind looking at it and seeing what you can do? Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:29, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you give me more background? What outcome was reached by consensus? I haven't been following this page closely. Royalbroil 04:32, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm not going to lead you. Feel free to check the discussion above and the archives. If you think the genres in the infobox and lede reflect the discussions and consensus, no changes need to be made. Otherwise, feel free to make changes. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:02, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  @Walter Görlitz: Walter, Looks like despite the temporary hold on edits regarding the genre dispute, you added the Christian Rock genre on the main page. You refer to the change as a result of the discussion on the talk page, but there was never a conclusion established on either side of the conversation. In an effort to continue the integrity of this site, can we mutually agree to have a third editor weigh in who holds no partiality to the matter? MikeJonesJones (talk) 17:39, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Despite asking to engage in discussion you decided not no. I restored the genre after a discussion. There was never a conclusion that they were not a Christian rock band either. There was collusion to make it appear as though they were not. The facts are simple: they have won awards as a Christian band and their management wants to downplay that aspect for some reason. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:43, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

text:  And yes, I'd be happy to have a third established editor weigh-in. Based on what happened last time, I would not agree with a relatively new editor.  has already commented on that above (on April 4).  commented above after a sockpuppet did. However, if you want to open it up to additional editors, feel free to. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:56, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I completely agree with you and appreciate your wisdom that it needs an established editor to weigh-in on this. I'm catching up on the regulations for genre determination and is there another source besides winning awards that would help with an appropriate determination either way? Other artists, Carrie Underwood and Hillary Scott have also received category awards but are not distinguished in the Christian genre. Do their notations need to be explored as well? --MikeJonesJones (talk) 19:07, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I argue that ANY of the following warrant inclusion for any musical genre: chart appearances, category awards, and radio airplay. Needtobreathe is VERY FAR from being "on the bubble" for having many Christian musical genres. So I argue that Hillary Scott and Carrie Underwood should have a/several Christian genre(s) added to their articles. A third well established impartial editor should be versed on Wikipedia's policy/precedents/5 pillars. Royalbroil 04:37, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian rock 2 

message: Once this becomes unprotected, would someone mind noting that David Leonard is not currently in All Sons & Daughters? That group dissolved. Thank you!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.207.59.52 (talk) 19:50, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Leonard 

message: Why no new pages for Out of Body or Into the Mystery? Rossidor (talk) 05:25, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Out of Body probably could have one as it charted and likely has some non-trivial reviews (see Wikipedia's notability guidelines for albums). Into the Mystery just released, and if it is notable, we should have one there as well. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:29, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last two albums 

message: The genre "Christian rock" was never appropriate and is very outdated. A person is Christian, music is not. I see lots of good arguments for them not be labeled on here as a Christian rock band, but it seems there's some personal reason some people have for this page saying "Christian" on it. The page should reflect what the band says, not a couple editor's personal preference. Just my two cents.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rorys1989 (talk • contribs) 04:48, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The only person who ever stood in the way of this being changed has been indefinitely blocked, so I'll go ahead and change it now. I should note, however, that you want change for the wrong reasons. dannymusiceditor  oops  05:48, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. But citing the band's actual words is the wrong reason? Rorys1989 (talk) 04:32, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not Christian rock