Talk:Space-cadet keyboard

message: Some dates would be educational. -- Beland 03:02, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates 

message: There are a lot of extra keys that aren't mentioned in this article:
*I, II, III, IV keys	(not used, available for user applications)
*Rub Out	(ASCII 127 = DEL = Delete; delete the character you just typed)
*The hand keys	(not used, available for user applications)
*Over Strike	(ASCII 8 = BS = Back Space; move left without erasing)
*Line   	(ASCII 12 = LF = Line Feed; move down; editor newline and indent)
There's a few more that could be expanded upon. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 05:27, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What do some of these keys do? 

message: The Jargon File reference link does not work and the given ISBN does not appear in any registry I tried.  I would update it but the only Jargon File I ever use is the online one maintained by ESR.
Zlynx (talk) 20:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad References 

message: Although it is commonly known, that Knight Keyboard influenced keystroke-oriented design of EMACS, the impact on early home computing industry shall also be mentioned: spoken above "front" characters of c-64, and most notably, the multi-mode 5-command keys of original Sinclair ZX Spectrum. Worth noticing: Knight Keyboard is "EMACS-Keyboard" and ZX-Spectrum one is "VI-Keyboard' (it uses modes instead of bucky bits) I lack proper knowledge to edit the article, but there maybe is someone willing to do that?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.212.82.66 (talk) 07:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Linkfix by 145.228.61.4 (talk) 13:21, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  impact on other designs 

message: Why do super key and meta key have their own article but not hyper key? -NeF (talk) 16:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hyper Key use to, but it never got beyond "The Hyper key was a special key on the Space-cadet keyboard." That was the entire article (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Hyper_key&diff=prev&oldid=329534377). Meta's is slightly more substantial (and is used on some Linux configurations), and Super still has a current use on Linux computers (mapped to Windows). I wish someone who actually used a computer with a Hyper Key could post some information on them to make a new article. The Sanest Mad Hatter (talk) 23:11, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hyper Key 

message: I recently (today) uploaded a SVG of the Space Cadet Keyboard's layout to wikicommons (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/File:Spacecadetkeyboard.svg). My intention it to turn it into a imagemap so readers of this article could click on it to go to each key's specific page—similar to many keyboard related articles having this (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Template:Keyboard) template. I would appreciate help in cleaning up the image, it isn't very legible scaled down to a reasonable size. The Sanest Mad Hatter (talk) 23:57, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The more usual way of linking is :File:Spacecadetkeyboard.svg or :commons:File:Spacecadetkeyboard.svg.   Not sure the color scheme helps with legibility; you might prefer a bold font on a light background (e.g. :File:KB Canadian French.svg etc.).  AnonMoos (talk) 00:50, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is what I've done so far, threw out the nice colors for legibility.
Image:Spacecadetkeyboard.svg|800px|alt=The Space Cadet Keyboard
desc none
#Row 1
 rect   0   0  66  33 Macro_Key
 rect  67   0 133  33 Terminal_Key
 rect 134   0 200  33 Quote_Key
 rect 201   0 266  33 Over_Strike_Key
 rect 267   0 333  33 Clear_Input_Key
 rect 334   0 400  33 Clear_Screen_Key
 rect 401   0 466  33 Hold_Outout_Key
 rect 467   0 533  33 Top_Output_Key
 rect 534   0 600  33 Abort_Key
 rect 601   0 666  33 Break_Key
 rect 667   0 733  33 Resume_Key
 rect 734   0 800  33 Call_Key
#Row 2
#rect   0  34  33  66 Roman Numeral 1
#rect  34  34  66  66 Roman Numeral 2
 rect  67  34 133  66 System_Key
#rect 134  34 166  66 AlphaNumeric PlusMinus
#rect 167  34 200  66 AlphaNumeric 1
#rect 201  34 133  66 AlphaNumeric 2
#rect 234  34 166  66 AlphaNumeric 3
#rect 267  34 300  66 AlphaNumeric 4
#rect 301  34 333  66 AlphaNumeric 5
#rect 334  34 366  66 AlphaNumeric 6
#rect 367  34 400  66 AlphaNumeric 7
#rect 401  34 433  66 AlphaNumeric 8
#rect 434  34 466  66 AlphaNumeric 9
#rect 467  34 500  66 AlphaNumeric 0
#rect 501  34 550  66 AlphaNumeric -
#rect 551  34 600  66 AlphaNumeric =
#rect 601  34 633  66 AlphaNumeric {
#rect 634  34 666  66 AlphaNumeric }
 rect 667  34 733  66 Status_Key
#rect 734  34 766  66 Hand Up
#rect 767  34 800  66 Hand Down
#Row 3
#rect   0  67  33 100 Roman Numeral 3
#rect  34  67  66 100 Roman Numeral 4
 rect  67  67 133 100 Network_Key
 rect 134  67 183 100 Tab_Key
#rect 184  67 216 100 AlphaNumeric Q
#rect 217  67 250 100 AlphaNumeric W
#rect 251  67 283 100 AlphaNumeric E
#rect 284  67 316 100 AlphaNumeric R
#rect 317  67 350 100 AlphaNumeric T
#rect 351  67 383 100 AlphaNumeric Y
#rect 384  67 416 100 AlphaNumeric U
#rect 417  67 450 100 AlphaNumeric I
#rect 451  67 484 100 AlphaNumeric O
#rect 485  67 517 100 AlphaNumeric P
#rect 518  67 550 100 AlphaNumeric (
#rect 551  67 583 100 AlphaNumeric )
#rect 584  67 616 100 AlphaNumeric ~
#rect 617  67 666 100 AlphaNumeric \
 rect 667  67 733 100 Delete_Key
#rect 734  67 766 100 Hand Left
#rect 767  67 800 100 Hand Right
#Row 4
 rect   0 101  66 133 Mode_Lock
 rect  67 101 133 133 Alt_Key
 rect 134 101 191 133 Rub_Out_Key
#rect 192 101 225 133 AlphaNumeric A
#rect 226 101 258 133 AlphaNumeric S
#rect 269 101 292 133 AlphaNumeric D
#rect 293 101 325 133 AlphaNumeric F
#rect 326 101 358 133 AlphaNumeric G
#rect 359 101 392 133 AlphaNumeric H
#rect 393 101 425 133 AlphaNumeric J
#rect 426 101 458 133 AlphaNumeric K
#rect 459 101 492 133 AlphaNumeric L
#rect 493 101 525 133 AlphaNumeric ;
#rect 526 101 558 133 AlphaNumeric '
 rect 559 101 625 133 Return_Key
 rect 626 101 666 133 Line_Key
 rect 667 101 733 133 End_Key
 rect 734 101 800 133 Help_Key
#Row 5
 rect   0 134  33 166 Caps_Lock
 rect  34 134  83 166 Top_Key
 rect  84 134 133 166 Greek_Key
 rect 134 134 208 166 Shift_Key
#rect 209 134 242 166 AlphaNumeric Z
#rect 243 134 275 166 AlphaNumeric X
#rect 276 134 309 166 AlphaNumeric C
#rect 310 134 342 166 AlphaNumeric V
#rect 343 134 375 166 AlphaNumeric B
#rect 376 134 409 166 AlphaNumeric N
#rect 410 134 442 166 AlphaNumeric M
#rect 443 134 475 166 AlphaNumeric <
#rect 476 134 509 166 AlphaNumeric >
#rect 510 134 542 166 AlphaNumeric ?
 rect 543 134 616 166 Shift_Key
 rect 617 134 666 166 Greek_Key
 rect 667 134 716 166 Top_Key
 rect 717 134 766 166 Repeat_Key
 rect 767 134 800 166 Alt_Lock
#Row 6
 rect   0 167  50 200 Hyper_Key
 rect  51 167 100 200 Super_Key
 rect 101 167 150 200 Meta_Key
 rect 151 167 208 200 Control_Key
 rect 225 167 525 200 Space_Key
 rect 543 167 600 200 Control_Key
 rect 651 167 700 200 Meta_Key
 rect 701 167 750 200 Super_Key
 rect 751 167 800 200 Hyper_Key
The Sanest Mad Hatter (talk) 02:28, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Map 

message: I've been looking through several documents regarding early Symbolics Lisp and information that corresponds to the "space-cadet" keyboard. The Jargon File seems to imply that by using combinations of Ctrl, Meta, Super and Hyper, thousands of characters were possible (and perhaps even actually mapped) using this keyboard. However, from what I've read, the bucky bit modifier keys weren't for additional special characters but for specialized command use by Lisp itself or programs running in that environment (just as Ctrl and Alt are commonly used in different ways in a modern graphical user interface). Thus, the Symbolics space-cadet keyboard "only" had five shift levels (default, Shift, Greek [Front], Shift-Greek and Top). In fact, this is exactly what is shown in the table in the Description section of the article. This makes sense as (presumably) Lisp programmers would have been more interested in having a large number of modifiers for commands and programming functions rather than something like a prehistoric Unicode range (the Xerox Star rather than MIT-based Lisp machines was a pioneer in larger character sets/internationalization).
For the record, I just came across documentation of the Symbolics character set (w00t!). It has a total of 162 character encodings and 136 available but unused encodings (that are not "reserved" or "null character"). I'm not sure if this information should go in this article or one about Symbolics Lisp. Bumm13 (talk) 21:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, It's been a very long time since I've used one but from what I remember you are correct. Mostly what I remember using the hyper and meta keys for was debugging. It was really nice because the whole operating system was both object oriented and Lisp based so you could use certain key strokes to say "Abort the running process and throw to the next process that will handle it" or "Abort the current process and any process that catches it and throw all the way back to the user"  Control-Meta-Abort was what you did when all else failed. MadScientistX11 (talk) 14:49, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of bucky bits for potential characters comment 

message: Why is this being spelled as though Space-cadet were an adjective rather than part of a name? I realize these boards were never officially called this, but Space Cadet keyboard (no hyphen, both words capped) is how you'd expect it to be spelled. I see both spellings used around the Web. If it's a documented fact that whoever created the name didn't know better, I suppose history should win. (I'd also add the details to the topic, as the name's origin would be interesting even if eccentric spelling weren't involved.) Otherwise, suppose we fix it? – AndyFielding (talk) 22:05, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Topic spelling? 

message: I searched online for any more information on this keyboard because I was interested in the origin of its name, but I haven't found any more information than is already included in the article.
There are two possibilities for the origin of this name: 1) official documentation for the original system referred to it by this name, which seems unlikely, or 2) someone referred to it at some point in time by this nickname. Every page I found calls it a Lisp machine keyboard, and every site then immediately jumps into a description of the many special keys and how they were historically used - there is no mention of why it goes by this name, who gave it this name, or when it got this name.
I think an encyclopedic article on this keyboard should include an etymology section that explains the origin of the name. If it was named this originally, that would be an interesting fact, but I could also see how maybe nobody actually knows why it's called the space cadet keyboard. It's also possible that many people know why it goes by this name but assume it's obvious and doesn't need to be explained - if so, allow me to point out that it's not obvious to everyone. In any case, it would be appropriate to include a section in the article with this information.
So, does anybody know anything more about the origin of its name? Bz8x8c (talk) 18:32, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I just realized that this question is semi-related to the previous talk section, although it was discussing the article's title. Bz8x8c (talk) 18:36, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I know this isn't a valid reference but as someone who used (and loved) the Symbolics a lot I can just tell you that everyone referred to it as the "Space Cadet keyboard". I remember that Symbolics used to include some amusing stuff like that in some of their documentation so if anyone can find some old Symbolics manuals it might be included there. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 22:03, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: See the discussion under the John Kulp section. I found an Emacs manual that uses the term Space Cadet keyboard... which now that I think of it seems right, Emacs was a core part of the hacker culture that came up with wonderful names like that. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 23:09, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of name? 

message: Does this really need an article? Does anyone actually care about some obscure keyboard used by 20 people five decades ago? Nothing about this keyboard is noteworthy or important.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.207.57.166 (talk) 20:21, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It was used by a LOT more than 20 people but more importantly it was an important part of the evolution of UI hardware and of the hacker culture of Gnu and the Lisp machine. Not as notable as say the Macintosh but still notable. I agree the current references aren't very good but I've found two better ones and will try to locate some more. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 23:12, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

text: That is insulting. 100.40.131.139 (talk) 03:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who cares? 

message: The article says 50 x 5 * 2^4 (16) = 8000.  My calculator says 4000.  I don't have a clue what is right but just thought I'd mention it in case someone with more knowledge wanted to clarify things.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pedzsan (talk • contribs) 16:44, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don't know what I'm doing