Talk:Enoch

message: People have placed this article in :category:Jewish history. Are we suppose to believe that someone who lived 365 years and was taken by God to the sky was a historical character? --JLCA 12:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category 

message: How is it that the biblical text concerning Enoch walking with God that is quoted is not referenced? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.124.54.50 (talk) 21:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added the relevant citation.  The portion you refer to is Genesis 5:22 through 5:24, but the relevant information in the article's introduction includes information through to 5:29. By the very fact that you're here writing on a Talk page means that you likely have some interest in the subject, and the info is right at the beginning of the Book, so remember to be bold! :) --Thisisbossi 03:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biblical text? 

message: I find it interesting that the article does not so much as nod towards Dr. John Dee and Edward Kelley, not to mention masonic lore. -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. 12:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's more the curious structures of heavenly gates, windows and directions in Book of Enoch seem also to relate to some sort of Stonehenge-like structure, viz., (Laurence trans.) Chapter LXXI [Sect. XIII], if not Stonehenge herself. Dr. Dee mentions his own discovery of a pre-Enochian language; some his "actions" with Kelley more resemble the semi-political workings of the Witch of Endor than the inspirations of Enoch or the seeings of Emanuel Swedenborg or Andrew Jackson Davis. 71.51.77.3 (talk) 18:29, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Curious omissions 

message: The article states that the book has "been rejected by the church".  Shouldn't that be A church?  And it would be nice to know which one(s) reject it.
::That little portion of it is probably more encyclopedic than Wikipedic... "persuade us"? Who is "us"? I'm not going to go looking for the WP:xxx thing for this but I think it's generally frowned upon to use first person pronouns in any form?125.236.211.165 (talk) 07:48, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been my understanding for some years that the compiler of the Bible, namely Jerome, rejected Enoch as a book therefor on account of the several, fourteen I think, versions he was confronted with during his compilation process. Thinking about that multiplicity of Enoch versions led me to conclude that it were probably indeed an ancient book even in Jerome's time, and that those versions had reached his cave by some very diverse routes. It is interesting to muse that perhaps the Apostles & Jesus had gathered some of those versions to use as compilations or recipes for their activities -- and that perhaps the migration of some of the Jerusalem survivors into Gaul were a basic migratory motion toward Stonehenge. The early "Church" in following Jerome, adopted his compilation as Vulgate and thus were Enoch's book(s) omitted -- nothing is ever so very simple, though, in reading any or all the remaining versions of Enoch, how indeed could one easily include the materials...69.69.19.79 (talk) 19:38, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  the church (and pronouns) 

message: and other stuff
The Enoch son of Cain (Genesis 4:17) is not grandson of Adam. As Cain is not mentioned in the generations of Adam (Genesis 5:1-18) in the original text nor in any of the translations. This coincides with ancient documentation that Cain was never seed of Adam, pointing to a deeper and sinister origin of Cain in the Garden of Eden. The fruit that Lucifer tempted Eve to partake of in the Garden was not a fruit but carnal knowledge. Trees (Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) have been always a reference of "people" in the bible (as "Descendants" are also referred as "Seed").
This is a very interesting passage, and personally I think it may be important to clarify it. "The Enoch son of Cain is not grandson of Adam."... What? Were Cain and Abel not sons of Adam? I'm not really disputing it, I'm no bible scholar...
"As Cain is not mentioned in the generations of Adam" -- ahh, now we are getting clearer. Does that indeed necessarily negate the possibility that he is Adam's son? Sorry to shake the tree here.
"nor in any of the translations" .. wait... what?? ANY of the translations? According to who exactly? How many translations are there? Original Research? WP:NOR
"The fruit that Lucifer tempted Eve to partake of in the Garden was not a fruit but carnal knowledge." ... Again, according to who? The Bible in front of me (heavily translated as it may be) merely claims that the apple was an apple, no more, no less. Perhaps something in the way the original text is rendered shows that it is more than a mere apple but I don't think it's our job to deduce, speculate or assume this. Besides, if it were our job to do so, we would be researching or calculating the will of God - and not by inspired works, but by human effort. One could argue that the nature of the fruit is irrelevant and all that matters is their sin in disobeyed God's instruction to not eat it. In any event, I'm sure that this is discussed in the article where it is actually even relevant at all.
"Trees (Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) have been always a reference of people in the bible" -- with all due respect, how do you know, and what does said tree exactly have to do with Enoch at this point?
So we have:
- a discussion of Cain's origin, which is of questionable relevance
- a discussion of botany, which is of questionable relevance
- a question of metaphor, also hard to see how it relates to Enoch
- no citations
- possibly a lot of speculation
I don't really mean to point the finger and accuse ;-) .. If I thought that I could do better, I would. I was just passing through.
I think that a big first step would be to check all the "External Links" for relevance and try to use them as citations where appropriate. Then citations should be added to any other wanting parts of the article as this would help clarify it.
Following that an editor (me!? oh no) could verify the relevance of each portion of the article.
It's a wonderful article, I'm very pleased to see it represented and learned a lot from it..
Thanks for your attention, I hope I haven't overly restated the obvious, stepped on anyone's toes, offended anyone etc.125.236.211.165 (talk) 07:48, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  last paragraph, rabinnical literature, original research? relevance? Citations? 

message: This article should improve the section which talks about figures who were thought to be related to Enoch. In particular :
*Enoch / Metatron ? 
*Metatron / Holy Spirit ?
*Enoch / Wandering Jew ?
*Enoch / Count St. Germain ?
*Enoch / Proclus ?
*Enoch / Thoth ?
*According to the Figurists, Fu Xi was an incarnation of Enoch
*Etc ?
For Enoch-Metatron the relation is simple and it is already pointed out about 3 Enoch (to rewrite article 3 Enoch is in may to-do, but not a priority). About Enoch/Fu-Xi I dont know. I know only that according to many apocriphal litterature Enoch (as Fu-Xi) was the inventor of writing. A ntv (talk) 19:05, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Related figures

message: There ought to be an article on the Pillars of Enoch, which could borrow from this site.  ADM (talk) 17:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Pillars of Enoch

message: Some ancient treatises of Judeo-Christian morality appear to have a strong Enochian element, for example in the opposition to abortion and contraception. It would be interesting to try and examine the influence of Enochian teachings in the moral aspect of Abrahamic religion. ADM (talk) 01:44, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Enoch and Judeo-Christian morality

message: Surely as son of Cain, the first Enoch was the grandson, not great grandson of Adam?  I've amended the opening paragraph accordingly.
If I've overlooked something here, please explain here and change it back.  Rojomoke (talk) 10:19, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great Grandson of Adam? 

message: Please consider renaming this article Enoch, son of Jared as per Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Bible#standardized_way_of_naming_articles_for_biblical_persons. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 20:47, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: rename article

message: The icon does not represent enoch and elijah. It is st. Anthony and st. Paul the hermit. Please change that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.182.138 (talk) 21:53, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The figures seem to be labeled ... can anyone read it/recognize the language? The12thMan (talk) 20:38, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  wrong icon 

message: There are different trusted sources those accept Prophet Idris was Hermes Trismegistus and as well as, suspects there shows he is Enoch? What is correct and according to what certainly? Wikipedia seems confusing in fact, Idris = Enoch (?). Davion 20:58, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enoch/Hermes/Idris 

message: I suggest removing the bolded text in the quote below:
:The second mention is where the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews writes, "By faith Enoch was transferred, that he should not see death, and was not found, because God had transferred him; for before his transference he had the witness that he had pleased God well." (Hebrews 11:5) Later in the chapter, Verse 13 adds that Enoch died, along with Abel, Noah, and Abraham.
The relevant portion of Hebrews 11:13 reads (in the NIV): "All these people were still living by faith when they died." Without a citation showing that scholars believe the passage is referring to Enoch's death, this probably should be deleted as original research. I would imagine commentators see Enoch as an exception to verse 13 since according to verse 5 he didn't see death; at least that is the view in Gill's, Matthew Henry's and other commentaries I've seen.
The12thMan (talk) 20:30, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the text in bold - feel free to discuss. The12thMan (talk) 17:21, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Enoch Died" 

message: At the beginning of the article it says that you spell 'Enoch' חֲנוֹךְ, in biblical hebrew and in modern/tiberian hebrew you pronounce it 'Hankok'. Surely it would be 'Kanok' as ח is the letter 'khet' as opposed to the similar looking letter 'Heh' (ה in hebrew). Is this oddity due to someone misreading the hebrew mistaking 
ח for ה so Kanok became Hanok or have I made the mistake? --Grammarbishop8 (talk) 13:28, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linguistic Oddity 

message: 1.  Enoch-Genesis 5:24 Hebrews 11:5
2.  Elijah-taken up to heaven. 2 Kings2:1-15
3.  little girl-she's not dead, only sleeping, raised by Jesus Mark 5:39-42
4.  Lazarus-raised from the dead John 11:1-44
5. Jesus Christ-resurrection-arising from the dead John 5:28,29 John 6:39, 40, 44-ascension
There is suppose to be a whole generation that will not see Death...Matt24:34
the theme(the testimony) is to Please God....walk in the Spirit...if you walk in the flesh you cannot Please God...
Romans 8:8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.3.164.240 (talk • contribs) 
: Do you have a question or suggestion about improving the article? Otherwise please don't use this talk page as a forum. — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 06:07, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enoch, one of five Bible Raptures? 

message: This section seems to be entirely about the Book of Enoch. Wouldn't it belong better in that article? Mannanan51 (talk) 06:44, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Influence in Christianity" 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: (non-admin closure) MOVED User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 18:57, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Support, as this one is more notable mythological character. Dimadick (talk) 13:56, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

text: Support. Enoch (Ancestor of Noah) is by far the more notable of the two. Although he's a minor character in the bible proper, he's very significant for the Book of Enoch and other Enochian literature.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:15, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

text: Oppose. While it has more views, it only has less than x3 mores. Also, the two most viewed Enochs are from the same topic (bible) and from past experience with such things, this will lead to editors linking to the incorrect usages and readers landing on the wrong page. Having a disambiguation page as the base name prevents these links from happening. Gonnym (talk) 22:45, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure why he should be notable for being the great grandfather of Methushael, about whom nothing is known.  This Enoch is the father of Methuselah (with a slightly different spelling), who is known for being the longest lived individual in the Bible, per Gen 5:21-27.Havelock Jones (talk) 15:23, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 8 September 2021