Talk:Causes of climate change

message: Something about this paragraph seems wrong...
- For example, the harm done by humans to the populations of Elephants and Monkeys contributes to deforestation therefore to climate change.
While a careful reading yields "in the process of harming monkeys, humans destroy forests, a cause of climate change", a quick reading could easily yield "humans harm monkeys, monkeys prevent deforestation, thus, climate change". This can't be the only oddly-phraced paragraph like this.
Also, something about the capitalization of Elephants and Monkeys seems wrong, almost like this was copy-pasted from somewhere...
--FavoritoHJS (talk) 23:42, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weird paragraph in Key attributions:Land use 

message: Could any of you experts clarify in the text of the article which kind of "ppm" you mean (volume? weight? moles? anything else?)? Please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts-per_notation#Mass_fraction_vs._mole_fraction_vs._volume_fraction if you wonder what I mean! Thanks! 130.239.42.216 (talk) 19:16, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Keeling Curve (and thus most citations of atmospheric  concentration) are volume, but happen to be written ppm instead of ppmv. I wiki-linked to Keeling curve article, and also to the relevant section of the article which makes clear the data are ppmv. Added a footnote. This is the only context in this article that "ppm" occurs. -- M.boli (talk) 21:32, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which ppm? 

message: I came to this section because I am trying to figure out where we should put content that is about past discussions on certain aspects of the science which have in the meantime been resolved. I see some of that content is here under "Non-consensus views" but it seems a bit messy. There is also some in the article global warming controversy (which I would like to rename "climate change debates", see on the talk page there), see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy#Debates_around_details_in_the_science . We also have a bit here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial#Discussing_specific_aspects_of_climate_change_science . Maybe what we actually need is a section in history of climate change science which explains some of those scientific debates and how they were concluded / reconciled? It could be useful for historical, archiving purposes? EMsmile (talk) 09:36, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I've re-arranged the structure a bit to make it clearer what is not a key attributor (but was discussed in the past as being a hypothetical contributor). We need to make sure we don't repeat and overlap with content that is at global warming controversy or climate change denial or history of climate change science. So this might need further tightening up. Pinging User:ASRASR for info. EMsmile (talk) 14:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

text: (posting this in two Talk Pages, as it appears relevant to both) I think that disproven theories should only be included in /* History of ___ */ (sub)sections. If no such (sub)sections exist, then I would omit the content about disproven theories. This ensures that past misunderstandings do not undercut present knowledge, giving credibility to denialists. —RCraig09 (talk) 18:05, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  What to do about the section "Non-consensus views"? 

message: (copied the below from sandbox of I2K talk page - just so that we know this is still a "to do"). EMsmile (talk) 21:42, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, since the hope is that the creation of this article would substantially lighten the corresponding section of climate change as well, so I moved everything I considered appropriate to here. Can you do the conversion on your own? InformationToKnowledge (talk) 09:44, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ah, I hate working with short ref style, it's so cumbersome... Can we agree that the ref style for the causes of climate change would be long ref style? It's just easier that way. EMsmile (talk) 10:37, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly. InformationToKnowledge (talk) 11:31, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good. Just to be clear that I understand what happened: a lot of the text of this new article was copied from climate change to here? Basically whereever I see a ref in short ref style then I can assume that that sentence came from climate change? At a later point you/we will then propose to cull some of the content in the section of "causes" at climate change ? EMsmile (talk) 13:29, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes to all. In fact, once the material in this sandbox is moved into the new article, I would like to use it to draft the shortened version of that section in climate change. InformationToKnowledge (talk) 17:23, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, cool. I wonder if there is a more automated way of converting those short refs into long refs. I have done it manually in the past (for some other articles) but there are a lot of them here, so the tasks seems quite daunting. Probably 3-4 hours of work. Perhaps in some cases, not all the refs are needed anyhow or you'd want to use different ones than what was used in the climate change article? EMsmile (talk) 22:04, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I've started the process and converted the first six of those refs that had short ref style but broken links to long ref style. It's going to be quite a tedious process to get them all done... If anyone wants to help please do. EMsmile (talk) 21:28, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a wiki policy against mixing sources btw? Just asking because I use both and I was curious. Usually prefer short ref when multiple pages from a single source get cited separately. Bogazicili (talk) 13:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

text: Ah, I see it at Wikipedia:Inline_citation. But a lot of articles use both even when FA. Bogazicili (talk) 13:30, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I find long ref style so much better. It's loads easier for new editors and also when moving content from one Wikipedia article to the other. Also when using excerpts. And the thing about page numbers is easy to resolve by using the small superscript numbers with the syntax ( for page 6, for example. As far as I can see, for WikiProject Climate Change, only the main CC article uses short ref style but pretty much all the sub-articles use long ref style now (some of them have been changed over by me; many of them were using a mixture). EMsmile (talk) 23:01, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh I have no preference for this article, it's completely up to you and InformationToKnowledge. I'm not going to be closely involved I think. I just thought switching styles was too tedious and I was confused about the MOS (there was also this whole thing here lol ). Bogazicili (talk) 20:59, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference style 

message: I am working through converting the short ref style to long ref style. But I am seeing quite a few instances where there are too many refs for one statement (not good see WP:OVERCITE. For example this one in the "aerosols" section: 
@User:InformationToKnowledge: could you check which refs could be omitted here? Also for some of the other sentences with many refs - if you have time. NB: with the short ref style there is only one square number in brackets but this can contain several refs. Looks like this for example: ; ; .
By the way I am seeing plenty of primary sources refs in the climate change article. That's fine by me but just saying, as in one of your discussions you asked if FA means it has to be all secondary sources. Clearly it doesn't. EMsmile (talk) 22:27, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many refs for one statement? 

message: There are something like 38 references with missing sources. Either provide them or see the material removes as unreferenced. DuncanHill (talk) 01:24, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: OK well I've found all the missing sources and added them. I seem to have added more material than is strictly necessary for the IPCC reports, but I think someone else can trim that down now I've done all the heavy lifting. When you copy material from other articles you need to copy over all the sources called by references in that material. DuncanHill (talk) 02:23, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks a lot for this effort, DuncanHill! You can see above that I had started to sort out those refs (converting from the short ref styel to the long ref style) but it was very time consuming so I ran out of time (and what hoping that someone else would help, too). I had also commented above that some sentences have way too many refs. The material had been copied from climate change (not by me). Anyhow, thanks a lot for your help here! EMsmile (talk) 14:40, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've now taken out those IPCC reports that weren't actually used. When I have time, I'll continue with the effort to convert the short refs into long refs style (if someone else also has time, feel free to step in). EMsmile (talk) 14:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Useless references