Talk:Concert T-shirt

message: Is anyone going to verify any of this?
:Oops, I hadn't noticed that edit (dated October 17th). Thanks for bringing it to the talk page. In the future, if you see something as obviously biased as "it is generally considered lame", you can go ahead and remove it yourself. Cheers, IronChris  |  (talk)
::Found a news article that references black concert t-shirts in relation to tour dates listings. --Mattarata 22:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be more possible to verify that is it not cool. Verification for matters like this would be using quotes from credible writers. — edgarde 18:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Verification

message: "You're a punk rock kid; you're a Madonna wannabe; you're a headbanger."
Without really mentioning the rock concert T, does this kinda encompass the "Black concert T-shirt" concept?
When I wear my Nico denim jacket, my Abba baseball cap, or my Lords Of Acid buttplug, aren't I just showing other music enthusiasts how cool I am? This is all one behavior, right? — edgarde 02:23, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree that those wearing a Black concert T-shirt are trying to fit into a clique or otherwise following a fashion trend or style. It is a documented behavior as other fads or trends are. As such, the shirt, when used in the capacity of summing up a specific style or view, can be its own article. --Mattarata 18:00, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: T-shirts signifying membership in a clique

message: -I believe all of these links to be better than a an obscure blog reference, and I think they can help add material to the article. 
*A site called Grumble Magazine has an article titled "My Heavy Metal Band Can Kick Your Heavy Metal Band's Ass"  wherein it mentions "Dozens of people vanished during the show, reappearing in their regulation black concert t-shirts." The term "regulation black" here gives evidence that a Black concert T-shirt is the fashion that stands out amount all concert t-shirts.
*A site  that compiles a general review of all of the Lollapalloza's maintained by Sillicon Valley's Metroactive newspaper says "If you ever wanted to see skinheads dressed in beat-up black concert T-shirts yelling "Fuck yeah, Monks!" Lollapalooza No. 6 was the place for you." 
*A Centerstage Chicago article  by Kat Daly mentions "Everyone has on black concert T-shirts, and they're listening to heavy metal…"
*A Cincinnati City Beat article  by John M. James "I still miss those clandestine black-market entrepreneurs hanging out in the concert parking lots of 1970's, slinging newsboy shoulder bags filled with gaudy, black concert t-shirts at $5 a piece..."
*Central Iowa's Independent Weekly, Cityview Online, references "you might want to check the back of the closet for those frayed black concert T-shirts sporting images of big-hair metal bands from the '80s." in their summer concert preview for 2006, by Michael Swanger.
*Spin says "If she sports a mullet and prefers ratty black concert t-shirts, she's likely..." in an article about a band called Tsar on June 30, 2005.
*The Northern Iowan talks about a defendant's black concert t-shirts being used as evidence in a trial.
--Mattarata 00:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Google search turned up this material

message: I admit I'm impressed by Mattarata's references. I think the way to go would be a rename to Band T-shirt, with a section on Black concert T-shirts. If someone can't fashion a reasonably encyclopedic entry on that sub-topic, just a list of terse quotes from Mattarata's references with in-line citations would certainly stand up. Then put a  "Main article" link on T-shirt.
Can we get some agreement on this? I don't want to act alone, or try and steamroll this through. I just think this is a good way to keep this information up to Wikipedia standards. — edgarde 04:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may be onto something, but "purely from experience" is a tough sell around here. — edgarde 17:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: i know.. which is why i said 'i wouldn't have any references'... but i'm still against deletion... but i'm with you on improving the standard of the article... --Yufeeko 01:57, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rename

message: Instead of generalizing the article, perhaps it could be added as a section of Heavy Metal Fashion. The details of the article would be able to be kept whole. Ultimate77 01:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge with another article?

message: This will never get out of stubbliness as it is - why not rename to Concert T-shirt, which will leave "Black concert T-shirt" as a redirect there, and then have a nice fat portion of that article devoted to the fact that most concert T-shirts are black. I'd be curious to know when concert T-shirts came into use at all. Cheers! bd2412 T 16:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree. IronChris  |  (talk) 17:01, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Again, rename? 

message: I think this article should be rewritten into an article about band shirts in general, or even better: band merchandise. Most band shirts aren't concert shirts, not all of them are black and many are longsleeves or hoodies. For example: I have about 20 band shirts of which four are hoodies, four are longsleeves, three aren't black and only three or four are concert tees.
:The point of this article is not concert merchandise. That would be an entirely seperate article. This article was suppose to document the fad/trend of the Black Concert T-shirt, as emphasized by the multiple references in literature. --Mattarata (talk) 19:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite into a better article? 

message: I just noticed that this article got nominated for deletion and then moved. As the original author of the page, I was notified, but didn't get a chance to comment before the process was closed. I do object to moving the article. The idea of the article is to document the fad/trend/phenomenon that is the Black Concert t-shirt, not concert t-shirts in general. Concert t-shirts have become a small part of the larger merchandising efforts by bands and groups, but the idea of the black concert t-shirt is much different. The black t-shirt is a cultural identifier, a uniform of sorts, that different groups of people have used and continue to use to identify themselves. Yes there are many other colors now, but the traditional idea of a black concert t-shirt needs to be emphasized. At the very least, the article now needs to be more extensive to cover concert t-shirts in general with a specific section on the idea of the black concert t-shirt. As it is, someone is going to come in and remove all references to black, which will lose the original idea of the article. Then the article will have even more cause to be deleted or to be merged with concert merchandising or something. --Mattarata (talk) 19:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The move was an alternative to deletion. Black concert T-shirts, being a subset of concert T-shirts, should properly have a section in the article as a whole. But there are a lot of questions that should be answered first, in any event. When were concert T-shirts first sold? Were they at Woodstock? Before that? Or not until later? Did a particular band or promoter pioneer the practice? Was black the most popular color from the beginning (I would bet not, but find a source)? bd2412 T 00:14, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move back to [[Black Concert T-shirt]] 

message: "Such shirts are everyday wear in some teen subcultures, especially stoners and freaks.[4]"
isn't that just the editors opinion? eeew eew look out those weirdoes in black shirts, i bet they smoke pot. 67.176.22.6 (talk) 04:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  this smells less than neutral to me