Talk:Talk box

message: Someone keeps putting this in talkbox lists on Wikipedia and it's driving me nuts.  Daft Punk do NOT use a talkbox, they use a Vocoder (a Korg MS2000 to be precise) - the two are very different things. Davetibbs 12:17, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is exactly the problem with WP:LISTCRUFT. I have removed the list entirely since it's a magnet for this type of thing, it's totally unsourced, and the article body already gives good examples. Eleland 16:03, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed "Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger" from list 

message: "A talk box works by producing an amplified sound with a horn driver, and directing the sound through a tube. The tube is typically taped to the side of a microphone extending enough to be placed in the performer's mouth. The performer then "shapes" the sound by opening or closing their mouth. The performer can also mouth words, and the resulting effect makes it sound as if the guitar is speaking."
"the" guitar?  what guitar?  there's been NO mention of a guitar.  therefore this description makes no sense at all.
somebody:  help it out a little.
anyway, about that talk comment below, "it deserves an entry", that is definitely 100% TRUE.  hopefully that was never under serious debate.
Agreed, this description doesn't really make it clear how the talk box works. A clearer definition would be welcome.
I rewrote some of this to hopefully be much clearer.
:I did understand most of it but I do think it needs to be written so it can be understood by someone who knows nothing of music hardware/effects, or maybe have a shorter paragraph that sums it up in very simple terms. --Fukhed666 07:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: article makes no sense.  whatsoever.

message: There should be a bit in here on troutman, he really made the talkbox the mainstay of Zapp.  The song "More Bounce to the Ounce" is a great example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK6wOG_aDl8
I also saw in an interview that P-Thugg from Chromeo uses the exact same synthesizer and settings that Roger used to use.  Unfortunately I can't remember where I saw this interview.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.191.39.44 (talk) 00:59, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Roger Troutman

message: The list of songs is HUGE, which is no surprise as there are more than two bands in the world with a talk box, and  everybody wants their favorite included. Naturally. I've stated some ideas for inclusion above, without any feedback on this I'm going to do a major cut of the list down to 10-20 entries just based on those points and my personal taste soon.
Please help me on this! Arru 22:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I'd say, to keep it conforming to a strict criterion, take out all artists that only have a single song entry, as a one-off experimental use seems hardly worth mentioning. In fact, I'll do that now. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 22:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Sounds great about Frampton, go ahead. Weird that Roger Troutman didn't have his own article, would be more logical to have Zapp redirect to him. We could certainly mention a number of songs with Roger Troutman here (covering his long and sadly ended career), and perhaps move them if a proper article on him gets written later. After all, he is the funk talk box player. Arru 08:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In regards to Frampton, he also uses a talk box in a Geico commercial...not sure if it's worth mentioning, but it works as a visual reference to the way a talk box is used. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 16:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unmaintainable list 

message: The information about Pete Drake pre-dates what I had to say. The History section suggests that the first use of the Talkbox was on 'Rocky Mountain Way' but the first time I ever heard a Talkbox was Iron Butterfly's 1970 album, Metamorphosis on the 13 minute track, 'Butterfly Bleu'.
 [Response: I saw Iron Butterfly do that song 'Butterfly Bleu', when it was current, on television, during a studio gig with an audience. 
 Mike Pinera, the featured guitarist on that song, was playing with what looked like a large bagpipe bag. 
 I now assume from this article, that was Kustom Electronics' "The Bag" device, 
contrary to your above statement that you heard a Talkbox on that song. 
 Mike Pinera is still around, according to his Wikipedia page, 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pinera 
(to which you can link his name in this article). 
Therefore, an experienced editor could contact him, 
to confirm his device choice for that effect on that song. 
 At the same time, for the Wikipedia page of him, and the one of that band, 
maybe he can be gotten to identify that show, as detailedly as possible, please? 
 Also then, for that page on him, maybe he can be gotten to confirm his choice of 
which device he used for that effect on the band Ramatam's self-titled album 
(including the 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramatam link), 
which was his next released such recording, and any other such uses of his, please? 
 Thank you!] 
[Deletable p.s.: Sorry if this was ramblingly newbie. 
 I remember seeing Alvino Rey and that "singing guitar" bit on the King Family's 
television show, so thanks for the childhood flashback of that helping get me into guitar.]
68.203.27.62 (talk) 09:04, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update to Missing Information 

message: I saw tool just last week and Adam definately used a talk box on Jambi but not on Rosetta Stoned, u may have confused it with the vocal distortion/vocoder effect Maynard uses throughout —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.108.5.143 (talk) 11:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tool's Adam Jones 

message: Umm I have a "Heil Sound Talk" box. I can take some pictures of it and put it up here.
That is if you all want any pictures. I'll wait until its discussed before I upload anything.  5150 02:41, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know it's a bit late to respond, but... do it! Generally the way things work on this thing, is you do it anyway and see if anyone complains. It's then optional to have a war over it. Upload your pictures, even if they don't end up in the article they'll be in the Commons for all eternity. Since the box is so important to this article, put a pic in where you think best. 188.29.165.51 (talk) 23:14, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: i'm 99.999% sure this was just jim scat singing. i'm taking it out. 67.172.61.222 23:16, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  cars hiss by my window 

message: I think that the list of song featuring a talk box should be placed into separate page. Don't you think so? Geevee (talk) 19:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If no one will object in a week, I'll do it. Geevee (talk) 13:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. Geevee (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Songs featuring a talk box 

message: While "Rocky Mountain Way" was probably the first big hit song to feature a talkbox, it's not the first song to use one; in fact, it's not even Joe Walsh's first use of a talkbox.
In the guitar tablature book Selections from Joe Walsh: Look What I Did! And Then Some... (Hal Leonard, 1996, ), apparently out of print, there is an interview of Walsh by John Stix on page 10 (interviewer's question bolded):
Is "Here We Go" the first time you used a talk box? Yes, it is. I was introduced to it by Bill West from Nashville. He was Dotty West's husband. Bill invented it a long time ago. He gave it to Pete Drake, who used it on a song called "Forever," in the late '50s. Then, nobody used it for a really long time. Bill laid the original one on me onetime[sic] when I was in Nashville. I used it for "Here We Go." Later, I used it on "Rocky Mountain Way." That's where everybody became aware of it. At some point Peter Frampton asked me about it, and I showed it to him, and he used it on that big album he did. I still have the original. I'm going to give it to the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland. Dwarfmuncher 12:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joe Walsh and talkboxes 

message: I noticed in the album notes for Use Your Illusion I by Guns N' Roses this is called a 'voice box'. Should this be included as an alternative name for the talk box or is it mistakenly named? --Neon white (talk) 17:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno, does it sound like one? Have a listen to some Frampton (purely for research) and see. Note don't make the mistake of listening to the other meaning of "frampton", being the farting noise produced by a lady's front bottom during vigourous intercourse. That will sound nothing alike, or so I hope.  188.29.165.51 (talk) 23:08, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voice box - an alternative name 

message: The Sonovox makes an even earlier appearance in the 1940 film "You'll Find Out" starring Kay Kyser and his orchestra, Bela Lugosi,
Boris Karloff, and Peter Lorre.  Lugosi uses the Sonovox to imitate the voice of a dead person during a seance.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.211.228.236 (talk) 08:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonovox 

message: From the main article; "Frampton acquired one as a Christmas present from Bob Heil in 1974. It was a hand-built Talk Box in a fiberglass box using a 100-watt high-powered driver. This was the Heil Talk Box used for the Frampton Comes Alive tour and album.[9][10][11][12] He then promptly locked himself away in a practice space for two weeks, and came out with some mastery of it. Frampton used it on his 1975 album Frampton and 1976 album Frampton Comes Alive! and probably incorporated it in live shows as early in his 1969-1971 stint in Humble Pie." How did he play the Talk Box with Humple Pie several years before he obtained one?  (122.57.222.233 (talk) 08:57, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  How can this be? 

message: A carbon mic can't work in reverse as a speaker. Only a few types of mic can (and generally shouldn't be!).
It is, however, fairly low-resistance and capable of taking a fair amount of power. I can guess, therefore, that he put the mic in series with his guitar's output, so the mic was amplitude-modulating the guitar. Wouldn't sound exactly the same as a talkbox but I can imagine it would be good enough.
Alvino's own article has the same paragraph, except the bit about the mic working as a speaker is not there. I'll go trim it here, too.
188.29.165.241 (talk) 01:14, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alvino Rey's carbon mic 

message: This page is the target of paid editing, see here. -War wizard90 (talk) 03:01, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paid editing target 

message: Hi there, what's the relationship between the two?
Thanks. 146.198.223.71 (talk) 13:24, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You might want to read the rest of the Talk page. A Talk Box is completely different than a vocoder. It's like wondering why tractors aren't mentioned on a racing car page. Meve Stills (talk) 13:32, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: They're not completely different; in the end, both devices modify one signal with frequency modulations from a second signal. The two are commonly confused, and the aforementioned rest of the talk page bears that out. I can see the relationship between the two as something a general reader would be interested in. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 02:22, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

text: I agree with Sofa. Talk boxes and vocoders are often conflated by the general listening audience, an effect that can be seen in the Notable uses section. Adding a few sentences to distinguish the two is worthwhile. Myconix (talk) 00:44, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mention of "vocoder" in the article?! 

message: A lot of the songs in the Notable uses section (e.g. all Daft Punk songs) don't use a talk box. They use a vocoder, which has a similar effect but is completely different mechanically. I've removed the ones that I know for sure aren't talk boxes, however, I can't say for sure about all of them. It might be worth considering to add citations to all of the songs that can be verified, and remove the songs for which verification can't be found. Myconix (talk) 00:30, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vocoders in "Notable Uses" section 

message: This article needs more about the device itself -- makers, construction, technique, mention that overuse of the high-powered boxes was thought to loosen dental fillings, etc.  Needs less about the various people who used them, most of whom frankly (sorry) are NOT that "notable".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 03:09, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  kinda patchy 

message: No mention of Bon Jovi's use on "Livin' on a Prayer" and "It's My Life"? I think slightly younger generations will be more familiar with those than the Frampton tunes.Jules TH 16 (talk) 21:09, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally agree. It was also a bit weird for me reading this article without Richie Sambora and Bon Jovi being mentioned - as very famous and awards winning examples in popular music. Can't believe it's really missed here. 91.193.176.231 (talk) 14:52, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, Mötley Crüe's "Kickstart My Heart". Jules TH 16 (talk) 19:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable examples 

message: Can't believe someone removed him, probably the most constant user of talkbox Claudia07822002 (talk) 23:22, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: for real. they gotta put that back in. they should also mention the use of the talk box in "Livin On a Prayer". History fan1234 (talk) 23:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where the heck is Richie Sambora? 

message: The Notable uses section is essentially a very (and therefore, too) long list.  Not all its entries are equally notable!  Maybe 5 to 7 entries would suffice? 
So, some issues for the bulk of this list: 
#Should it become a list article?  
#Would the list be more useful as a table, which would let the reader easily sort it by song name, artist or - if supplied  - album or year?  
#Should the list or table have a "genre" field?
yoyo (talk) 11:08, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The guideline for excessive information is WP:INDISCRIMINATE. The most important entries should be kept and supplied with more prose context, if possible. Less important entries can be removed. I don't think a table is appropriate because prose descriptions can be much more nuanced. Binksternet (talk) 14:39, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

text: The right thing to do is to ensure that the list only contains entries with a third-party source showing why the use is notable. There are already examples in the body text (for example, Steely Dan's "Haitian Divorce" is sourced in the body text, yet the list contains "East St. Louis Toodle-oo"). While laborious, this is a good way to filter out personal opinions and is the way that lists of notable people from cities/universities/whatever are usually handled. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 23:44, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Notable uses" list