Talk:Nigella sativa

message: The image used (Nigella sativa a1.jpg) does not show Nigella sativa, but N. damascena, recognizable by the finely dissected bracts just below the flowers. I have already contacted the image's author selso and hope he will replace the image as soon as possible- -- Andreas G. Heiss 12:49, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: There h ave been reports from Jordan of "Ground Black Cumin" being used as a sensitizer for bomb-making.  Nowhere in the news reports can I find a mention of whether this refers to Nigella sativa, or Bunium persicum, also called black cumin, but the other Jordanian references to black cumin I can find seem to refer to Nigella, not Bunium, where it can be determined at all.  Also, it would seem that Nigella is more characteristic of middle eastern cuisine than Bunium.  Is there someone who is truly familiar with the situation in Jordan who could say which it is and edit the articles (hopefully with references)? -- WormRunner 23:17, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black cumin as explosive sensitizer? 

message: Does anyone have a reference to support the claim that kalonji was found in Tutenkhamen's tomb? Or is Tsalman referring perhaps to the essential oil? 
Actually, the whole article should have more references. TheGoblin 15:32, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References? 

message: Is Nigella pronounced with 'g' like guitar or like gem? --89.1.42.116 09:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say velar as in guitar, because it is a Latin word. 89.247.225.158 23:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No - it's a soft g, Nye-jella. In British English at least - qv Nigella Lawson FlagSteward 03:44, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciation 

message: Even on in a wiki article, which nobody really takes seriously, it seems irresponsible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.137.176.112 (talk) 20:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is a link to Nigella sativa's use in addressing some aspects of Pancreatic C.A. I wouldn't call this irresponsible, just incomplete as this aspect of its physiological effects is still being identified within western scientific paradigms.  http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Middle-Eastern-herb-shows-potential-against-pancreatic-cancer/?c=9w7rdplaUdjN2ApFgjNkvg%3D%3D Dr Ian Niven  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian niven (talk • contribs) 03:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Done. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:16, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: A CURE FOR CANCER???????

message: The use of this seed in flatbreads from Turkey, Ethiopia, and the Middle East needs to be mentioned. Badagnani 00:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culinary use 

message: There was a whole load of not really-referenced stuff on the Black cumin page, which didn't belong on a disambig page.  I've no idea how reliable any of it is, it needs a big copyedit if nothing else but I figured if I dumped it in the Folklore section here someone could sort it out..... FlagSteward 03:44, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge in from Black cumin

message: I added "blackseed" as a spelling because it is often spelled that way, but googling it as "blackseed" did not return references to the wikipedia article on nigella sativa. Presumably, google's webcrawler will eventually pick it up now that I've added the additional spelling.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mosura (talk • contribs) 15:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Added additional spelling

message: Significant copy edit.  Mostly wikifying, but some re-ordering and removal of duplication.  The following sections were cut out as they duplicated material that was better expressed elsewhere:
:This Biblical herb, popular in breads and cakes, is used medicinally to purge the body of worms and parasites. An Arab proverb calls it "the medicine for every disease except death." These seeds taste hot to the tongue and are sometimes mixed with peppercorns in Europe."
:== In Other Languages ==
:Arabic Sinouj, Sanouz, Shunez, Habbat elbaraka, Sauda, Habbah, Kamun, Aswad. 
Armeniian  Shoushma
Catalan  Sanuj
Croatian  Cmi kumin, Crnog kima. 
Czech   Cerny kmin, Cernucha
Dutch  Nigelle Narduszaad. 
English
Estonian
Farsi
Finnish
French
German
Greek
Hebrew
Hindi
Hungarian
Indonesian
Italian
Latvian
Lithuanian
Kannada
Malay
Malayalam
Marathi
Norweigian
Polish
Portuguese
Punjabi
Romanian
Russian      Chernuska
Singhalese   Kaladuru
Slovak       Cernuska siata
Slovenian    Vzhodna Crnika
Spanish      Nigulla, Pasionara
Swedish      Svartkummin
Tamil        Karunkiragam
Telegu       Nellajilakaira
Turkish      Corekoto, Coreotu
Outstanding queries: external links aren't great and still some possible duplication in Islam section - are the "Bukhari" references the same?
Pdch (talk) 21:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit 

message: Are there some special brands of liquor that are based on the herb, or is it more commonly used in herbal liquors that are composed of multiple herbs? -- cimon  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.53.195 (talk) 13:34, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liquors 

message: There should be information about the dosage due the constituents niugelline and melanthin, that are dangerous in large doses. 
If someone has knowledge about just how much of the oil or seeds could be harmful, i think there are alot of people who could use that information.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.73.251 (talk) 10:21, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about the toxic and paralytic effects? 

message: I am wondering about the accuracy of the text as it stands now. The following text has been there for some time:
:The seeds are frequently referred to as black cumin (as in Assamese: kaljeera or kolajeera or Bengali kalo jeeray), In south Indian language Kannada it is called "Krishna Jeerige", but this is also used for a different spice, Bunium persicum. Original black cumin seed is Carum bulbocastanum.[2]
:In English-speaking countries with large immigrant populations, it is also variously known as kaljeera (Assamese কালজীৰা kalzira or ক’লাজীৰা kolazira), kalo jira (Bengali: কালোজিরা kalojira, black cumin), ...
I was puzzled by this whole development, as I've always thought that "black cumin" and "black caraway" were distinct spices. So reading this was a surprise. I just purchased two bags of spices from an Indian store. Both are distributed by the same company specializing in Indian products. One is labeled Kala Jeera, the other Kallonji: Graines d'onions. The latter is a perfect match for the seeds displayed here and is exactly the seeds I recognize as black caraway or chernushka (or charnushka, according to some Russian sources). Black cumin is a disambiguation piece that lists these seeds and Bunium persicum as two alternatives. Bunium persicum is exactly what I am looking at that's labeled Kala jeera. So I am looking for some expertise from people familiar with Bengali and other sources and, particularly, with local cooking--is the description of Nigella seeds as "black cumin" accurate? It makes little sense that two different sets of seeds with very distinct flavor profiles would go under the same name within a region where both are used extensively. It's certainly not impossible (just take a look at the OED lemmas for "shrimp", "crayfish" and "lobster"!).
Nigella sativa is, by far, the more commonly distributed spice. There is no question that it's been identified as "black cumin" (a.k.a. "fennel flower") for a long time. It's been known and used in Europe under this name for centuries--the OED listing cites sources going back to 1648.
:black cumin n. fennel flower, Nigella sativa, a plant producing small black seeds used as a spice; (also) (more fully black cumin seed) the seeds themselves; also called Roman coriander.
Note that black cumin is used here (OED has no record of black caraway, although that's the name under which N. sativa seeds go under at commercial bakeries, e.g., see the King Arthur Flour catalog). So if there is an error, it goes back quite a long way. New York Times mentions "black caraway" in articles on July 12, 1963 and February 29, 1968. "Black cumin" can be found in Chicago Tribune for May 18, 1934 and in Ludington Daily News for May 10, 1944.
I am not so much concerned about the English term for the seeds--English names for plants or plant product of foreign origin are often confused and inconsistent. I would like someone to verify non-English names, particularly those cognate to kala jeera. This is not a trivial task--one cannot simply look up an item in a dictionary, because this is precisely how the potential errors might have started to begin with. It requires understanding of local languages and cultures, which, unfortunately, also borders on original research. But if it can be verified that local Indian names for Nigella sativa do indeed include (or do not include) the names cognate to kala jeera that would justify the reference to these seeds as black cumin. If, however, it can be found that there is a sharp distinction between kallonji and kala jeera in all parts of the subcontinent where these seeds are use, this would correct a 500-year old wrong.
--Alex.deWitte (talk) 07:00, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black cumin vs.Black caraway 

message: While the list of common names is lengthy and commendable, I am finding it difficult to parse. This section is very confusing to me. For example, I don't understand the phrase "kalonji (Hindi/Urdu कलौंजी kalauṃjī or كلونجى/कलोंजी kaloṃjī)". I see a word, kalonji, external to the parenthesis which I assume is meant to support the external term, but inside the parentheses are two terms, kalauṃjī and kaloṃjī, which to my eye are only distantly related to kalonji because 'm' (labial) and 'n' (coronal or dorsal) are dissimilar (at least, to me). Furthermore, in the second term, I see both Indic script and Arabic script separated with a slash, but no indication of language(s) to which either may belong.  Please attribute the language, or at least the alphabet(s) in use, for each common name.
Kibi78704 (talk) 14:48, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: See what you think of it now. Hindi and Urdu use the same word for many culinary terms ("kitchen Hindustani"), but use different scripts. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:29, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common Names 

message: Black Cumin,Fennel,& so forth are foreign & misleading, call it what it is: nigella. It is nothing like cumin  fennel,or onion,so why dither?101.170.85.79 (talk) 12:13, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  nigella sativa or Nigella 

message: I'm cutting the "Traditional medicine" section for several reasons. First, it cites only a primary source. Second, it is not about Nigella sativa. If someone wants to add it to the appropriate article, be my guest, but I'm not doing it without a secondary source. I've preserved it below. Krychek (talk) 15:41, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: In the Unani Tibb system of medicine, black cumin (Carum bulbocastanum) is regarded as a valuable remedy for a number of diseases. In Islamic writing, a hadith narrated by Abu Hurairah says "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'There is healing in black seed (al-ḥabbah al-sawdāʼ) for all diseases except death.'"
Someone tried to re-insert this information into the article, once again with only a primary source. That primary source only mentions "black cumin," with no evidence to prove that it is referring specifically to Nigella sativa; there are other plants that go by that name. Original research (i.e., what you think you know) and vague primary sources are not sufficient grounds to add information to Wikipedia! Krychek (talk) 15:27, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

text: dear Krychek, that source refers to nigella sativa, it is obvious. thanks. Grandia01 (talk) 17:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The opening paragraph of this article states that Bunium bulbocastanum is another plant often referred to as black cumin, so no, it's not obvious. And again, you've only cited a primary source, which is unacceptable. If you are serious about this, you need to find a secondary source that talks about the significance of Nigella sativa (not just black cumin) in Islam. Or at least a source providing evidence that the black cumin mentioned in your primary source is indeed Nigella sativa. Krychek (talk) 16:21, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section removed 

message: there is a lot of scientific publication mentioned that nigella sativa have a powerful medical effect on some disease or even cancer. But why there is almost no segment to talk about this in this wikipedia page?   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.154.61.195 (talk) 03:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Because those publications are based entirely on words from the hadith, which is the opposite of a scientific publication.142.105.159.60 (talk) 22:32, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Wikipedia guideline, which also is sound scientific reasoning, follows WP:MEDRS. This document makes it clear that scientific and clinical evidence must be a high standard to assert anti-disease effects.--Zefr (talk) 22:47, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

text: yes, that would be good,  it  be referenced to a source, and not just be a personal view. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medical Usage 

message: added this content with references: A Prophetic Medicine as suggested 1400 years prior by the Prophet Muhammad. he said - "Utilize the Black Seed for without a doubt, it is a cure for all sicknesses aside from death." Saheeh al-Bukharee 7:591.'http://islam.ru/en/content/story/health-benefits-black-seed-nigella-sativa http://www.islamweb.net/en/article/157049/black-seed-nigella-sativa-a-cure-for-every-diseasehttps://sailanmuslim.com/news/sunnah-remedies-black-seednigella-sativa-honey-hijamah-cupping/ https://islamqa.info/en/154257 https://islamqa.info/en/20176
I have removed this edit for discussion here, as the references for health effects are nonsense spam and there is no reliable historical source. --Zefr (talk) 16:59, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I noted your revision at the Islam article. The historical use connected to ancient Islam may be true, but the article content is not science- or evidence-based, so is likely misleading information to users of that article and is certainly not "medicine". The article does have a multiple-issues warning banner, but that may not be enough. Perhaps it should be merged here where a small section could discuss the use of the seeds in old Islamic practices. --Zefr (talk) 22:35, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uses in Islam 

message: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6535880/#:~:text=So%20far%2C%20numerous%20studies%20demonstrated,%2C%20diabetes%2C%20inflammatory%20conditions%2C%20and - May 2019
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30087794/ 2017
Can someone look into them and see if the references can be quoted to this wiki article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.127.46.179 (talk) 17:38, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: No, these are both suspect journals. Alexbrn (talk) 17:40, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent Research Material on Nigella Sativa

message: The newest citation listed in the drugs.com footnote referenced in this article is from 2006. Much more clinical research has been done since, while the only study cited in the other footnote to this article (the hypertension study by Sahebkar, et al.) is from 2016--five years ago. I count 22 Systematic Reviews in PubMed since that 2016 hypertension study alone, and there have been 66 clinical trials since 2007. I'm not qualified to evaluate the published trials and systematic reviews that have happened since this Research section was last updated, but perhaps someone can look into it. ThreeRocks (talk) 21:29, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with reviews on research pertaining to possible health effects of N. sativa, listed here, is that they are usually not published in rigorous medical journals, but rather dubious herbalism publications or those considered as predatory listed on WP:CITEWATCH. One can also check to see if a journal is Medline-listed or if it has an acceptable impact factor among medical journals, shown here. If a journal is not Medline-indexed and/or has a medical impact factor less than 2, it is generally disqualified from use for medical content on Wikipedia. Existing for many years (likely why the Drugs.com source has not been updated), the general quality of clinical research on N. sativa has been poor, commonly with design or conduct weaknesses, and so is published in low-quality, non-clinical journals. Zefr (talk) 22:17, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Research section update? 

message: I’m a bit appalled by the endurance of the wrong spelling "kalanji" in this article, merely based on one (1) website that has failed to remove the page with the wrong title and instead just added a new page on "kalonji". 
Anyway, it’s corrected now. --Geke (talk) 21:02, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kalanji -> Kalonji 

message: User:Zefr: you reverted my addition of several synonyms. I understand why you invoke WP:NOTEVERYTHING , but I think in this case there is a good reason. The thing is, with this seed (culinarily at least), is that it's simply not well known in cooking in much of the English-speaking world, and as far as I can tell there is no single commonly used term for it. All of the terms for it are non-majority terms, to a point that is fairly confusing. I think it's actually helpful in this case to have a clearinghouse of all the terms for it one might possibly come across. I don't think the terms that you kept are necessarily more common than the ones I tried to add.--Ericjs (talk) 00:34, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you provide a WP:RS source that confirms these names have significance in English culinary practices? Whatever the outcome, so many names - common and minor - are not good for the lede sentence. The names used are probably the most common ones per the sources. Zefr (talk) 00:48, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose "black onion seeds" is a widely used synonym, they're sold under that name in the UK, see here. Markussep Talk 06:53, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  User:Zefr, do spice vendor's listing count? Besides Markussep's link I could site charnuska, which also mentions black caraway and black onion synonyns.--Ericjs (talk) 14:46, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:RS does not include promotional websites selling products or material unreviewed by a secondary source, WP:SECONDARY. Zefr (talk) 14:52, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

text:  As far as the idea that "the names used are probably the most common ones per the sources" the first of the current sources actually lists several of the synonyms that I tried to add, and more. I don't think "most common" is readily determinable, and may not even be meaningful in this case, this is my main point. --Ericjs (talk) 14:57, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

text:  The drugs.com source already used lists: ". i.e. if 'Kalonji' is a "common name", all those others are equally common (just in alphabetical order). But I guess the English ones may be most common in the English-speaking world. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:21, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think what makes the situation unusual, is that it simply isn't typical part of culinary practice in English-speaking countries. An English speaker is most likely to come across it in a recipe from some other tradition, in which case the term used may be the one from that tradition (like Kalonji, or Charnuska) or whatever English terms the author adapting it has come across, which varies so widely. --Ericjs (talk) 16:07, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

text:  I do think, though, that we need to make a distinction between the names for the plant that gardeners may use, and terms for the seed as a spice, from culinary usage. I was focused on names for the seed as spice, and the edit I made did not make that distinction and was probably inappropriate for the lead paragraph. --Ericjs (talk) 16:16, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

text:  I'm also not sure all of the terms listed in the drugs.com link are correct. A brief searh on "Love in the mist" suggests this is used for Nigella damascena not for Nigella sativa.--Ericjs (talk) 16:52, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

text:  The existing reference #2, https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxon/taxonomydetail?id=25337, lists the following Emglish common names: black-caraway, black-cumin, fennel-flower, nigella, nutmeg-flower, Roman-coriander. Each of these has a reference there. The perspective of this page is botanical, not culinary. --Ericjs (talk) 16:57, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synonyms 

message: Livestock research: I just added this new subheading with a Turkish 2008/uploaded to Science Direct in 2019 study on safety and benefits of N. sativa for laying hens. Could someone assist me with the proper sourcing of this study, available on Google 
This small 2008 Turkish study "Black Cumin (Nigella sativa L.) Supplementation into the Diet of the Laying Hen Positively Influences Egg Yield Parameters, Shell Quality, and Decreases Egg Cholesterol" most likely was originally published in Turkish, so I may not understand their placement of length of study data. I certainly could not find it! But this study does confirm my safety question for adding it to my chicken pasture. I am sure plenty of others will have the same question, considering N. sativa's placement in the generally more toxic Ranunculus family.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elisevil (talk • contribs) 22:51, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Livestock research