Talk:Ismail I

message: : Hello all, judging from the ridiculous arguments in the talk section put forward by people influenced by extreme ideologies I would like to let everyone know that articles like this, and many Iran and Greater Iran related topics, are under constant attack by vandals. Vandals which cite sources, many of which are full of ridiculous alt-facts and misinformation, to back up their ridiculous claims. The main issue on this article is the origin of Shah Ismail, I believe that many Pan-Turks hijack this page claiming that Shah Ismail was a Turk or Turkish or whatever floats their boats. Not only are these claims baseless and sound ridiculous but they have invaded this article! Most people which do an in-dpeth reserach on not only the Safavid dynasty buy also the Azeri people, will realize that Azeris are Turkic peoples because they speak a Turkic language but they are culturally Iranian/Iranic as well as genetically and historically Iranian/Iranic. Hence, why Shah Ismail is considered an Iranian as he is of Kurdish-Azeri origin. We must protect this page from vandalism. Just a heads up.
Thanks  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Migboy123 (talk • contribs) 09:11, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection of article 

message: : The article is disingenuous, claiming Ismail I was Kurdish is like claiming Queen Elizabeth is German, sure there is some German descent in the family tree but she is the Queen of Great Britain... there seems to be some confusion or purposeful attempts at trying to deceive readers here. Ismail I may have had a Japanese descendant 13 generations back! trying to connect a descendant 13 generations back and link it directly to current ethnicity is simply ridiculous and quite laughable. Over the course of 2-3 generations a persons nationhood and sense of identity can completely change.
: This article totally ignores that Ismail I grew up in a Turkmen/Turk sphere of influence, his grandfather married into the Aqqoyunlu, his father was an Aqqoyunlu, at the time of his birth Ismail I's family had been thoroughly Turkicised, directly through marriage/offspring, linguistically, militarily and culturally. Ismail I's mother tongue was Turkish, he spoke the language with the troops, with his family, in the court. I know there is a bit of a chip on the shoulder among some Pan-Iranic minded folk on Wiki but facts are facts. 109.148.253.190 (talk) 12:22, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I am interested to know if people now feel that this concern has been resolved. Neither the lede nor the infobox now mention Ismail's Kurdish ancestry, and other parts of the article only mention that he had Kurdish ancestors as well as ancestors of other ethnicities. MPS1992 (talk) 21:13, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: He was not kurd right but of Iranian origins and native middle eastern origins, Ismael mother side which is from Uzun Hassan is mixed as well with Georgian and Greek and Turk and by the way Uzun Hassan was more Greek genetically than Turk, and I won't talk about the deep origins of the turkic peoples like oghuz and tatar because it is a long argument about assimilation, however, accusing the owner of this article of being Pan-Iranist is telling you are a Pan-Turkist like 89% - 97% of Azerbaijanis or Turks from Anatolia, you are accusing anyone's does not agrees with you of being Pan-Iranist while you are the Pan-Turkist here. Ironic... Iranian Historian (talk) 07:20, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

text: It is funny that most of you Pan-Turkists gets a false informations and eductions that you think "Khatai" is a surname while it is a word/term, Ismael has mocked the Turks according to the Qizilbash Writer: Eskander Beg Turkoman Iranian Historian (talk) 07:22, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

text: The ethnicity and origins of shah Ismail are well-sourced in the article, please don't use Wikipedia talk pages like a forum, you need to cite reliable sources for your claims.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 06:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disingenuous article, totally ignores Ismail I's Turk/Turkmen identity 

message: I have reverted 3 edits by 2 IPs, deleting sources and infos. Tājik (talk) 15:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've restored the original quote by Minorsky. Tājik (talk) 00:31, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've once again reverted unexplained deletions by an anon IP. Tajik (talk) 17:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: In Life and Political History section it writes: Baghdad and the holy Shi'a shrines of Najaf and Karbala were seized from the Ottoman Turks, lost and reconquered again.
I think this sentence must be revised. Ismail died in 1524. Iraq had never been a part of  Ottoman Empire before 1524. Iraq was annexed by Ottoman Empire in 1534 , ten years after Ismail's death. So there was no conquest and reconquest of Iraq from Ottoman Empire. In fact, Ismail conquered Iraq from Murat Bey of Akkoyunlu Turkmens in 1508  Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:23, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iraq  

message: The text in the article now states that he was bilingual 'at birth'. Did he start speaking two different languages the moment he came out of his mother? If so, she might have been somewhat distressed. I think what is meant is either "his household was bilingual" or "he grew up bilingual".
70.18.16.154 (talk) 07:18, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  On Language 

message: I detected Ethnocentric attempt by User:Lysozym‎ and User:Xashaiar. Those edits: A, B etc. are POV pushing. It's very clear that their attempt is to remove the term of Shah of Azerbaijan. However this is historical fact. At first, Ismail became the "Shah of Azerbaijan". And then he became the shah of all of Iran. OK ?POV pushing edit. It's very clear your attempt is to remove the term of Shah of Azerbaijan. This is historical fact. First of all, he became the "Shah of Azerbaijan". And then he became the "Shah Iran". Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 10:52, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: And do you have any sources for the name "Abū l-Muzaffar bin Haydar as-Safavī" ? I couldn't find it in Reliable sources. Takabeg (talk) 11:01, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

text: Ethnocentric? a) of the sources mentioned above, only can be considered relevant and reliable (Encyclopaedia Americana). There are much better sources available, such as Encyclopaedia Iranica, Cambrdige History of Iran, and so forth. Why do you not cite any of those? b) Modern national borders and self-understanding did not exist back then. Ismail did not identify himself as an "Azeri" or a "king of Azerbaijan". He identified himself as a "Safawi" and as a hereditary grandmaster of that movement. His first battles were meant to revenge his father. After defeating the Turkoman confederations, he realized the power vacuum and declared himself king of all of Iran. Read Minorsky or Savory. c) Even though this information is wrong (i.e. that he was "king of Azerbaijan"), it is still mentioned in the article. But it is irrelevant for the introduction. In a very short time, he established himself as the "King of Iran", and he was recognized as such by his Ottoman and Uzbek enemies. --Lysozym (talk) 18:52, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: POV pushing edits

message: I was alerted that someone had changed all of the male pronouns to female.  So I changed back, her to his, she to he, girl to boy, daughter to son.  The problem is that in some passages it's not clear which is correct as a few of the people were female.  Any knowledgeable person who can read through the sections and correctly align the pronouns with the individuals is welcome to make changes to the article. 
Particularly confusing is this passage: "His father, Martha, was the son of Uzun Hasan by his Pontic Greek husband Theodora, better known as Despina Khatun.[6] Theodora was the son of Empress John IV of Trebizond. (He had married Uzun Hassan in a deal to protect Trebizond from the Ottomans.[7]) Ismail grew up bilingual, speaking Persian and Azeri.[8][9]"  I have no idea whether husband, son, father are correct or were also incorrectly changed.
Thank you! Ocaasi t | c 22:32, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would anyone do such a thing?! Can anyone explain? I recently studied Safavids so I'll look into this issue when I get a chance. --Critical M104 (talk) 13:40, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expert attention 

message: A short explanation for that sided claims.--83.66.126.43 (talk) 12:58, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Youtube is not a reliable source. Unflavoured (talk) 00:03, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  answer to kurdish claims 

message: Kurdish root of Ismail have presented in only one historical resource but many others are rejecting this claim. I think, the most valuable resource about identity of Ismail is his "divan". He used to so pure Turkish in his divan. The only one claim can not be acceptable for mark him as "Kurdish.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.104.51.158 (talk) 11:38, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You are writing (spamming) in a section made in 2013, seriously, what are you doing? Also, what you are saying is clearly wrong, anyone with basic English-speaking abilities can see that. Don't remove sourced information again, and stop spamming so many talk pages with your personal theories and questionable interpretations. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:45, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Then you need to work on your English skills, it's not my problem. Also, I literally just clicked on one of the citations and I can already see you're wrong/lying ("This official version contains textual changes designed to obscure the Kurdish origins of the Safavid family and to vindicate their claim to descent from the Imams." ). I've already reported you to an admin, and I'm not interested in taking further part in this. DON'T remove sourced information, and DON'T try to pov push. WAIT for consensus before you edit. DON'T writer on my talk page. Thanks and bye. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:02, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ismail not a Kurdish 

message: To the IP that continues to label what he does not like, Cambridge University Press is an acceptable reliable source. Richard Tapper is qualified as a scholar in this field. Continued attempts to label said source(s) will be considered disruptive editing and could lead to you being blocked. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:07, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cambridge University unreliable source? 

message: I asked you to discuss the changes you were performing on the talk page before performing the same change. Care to explain why you removed the source from Britannica, and "A History of Asia: Formations of Civilizations, From Antiquity to 1600" and instead replaced it with "Xoндeмиp, 'т.III, ч.4, c.570-571, 599-601, Шapaф-xaн Бидлиcи, т.ц c.169"? Best, --Spivorg (talk) 21:21, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I will now revert your changes. Best, --Spivorg (talk) 09:45, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edit by Azecorrector 

message: Anonim.lion, you have recently begun to remove the Persian name of Ismail, change Iran with Azerbaijan, what is your reasons for that? do you have any reliable source which calls the Safavids as the king of Azerbaijan, and what are your reasons for removing the Persian name of Ismail? take a look on the sources on the lead of the Safavid dynasty, i don't see the information (which has sources on it) being called a Azerbaijani Empire. --Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust (talk) 09:12, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unexplained editing 

message: Along with off topic additions to this article, DurChalen also is perpetrating original research.
"In 1514, Afonso de Albuquerque succeeded in constructing the Portuguese Fort in Ormuz."
Britannica states, "In 1514 the Portuguese captured Hormuz and built a fort. For more than a century the island remained Portuguese..."
No mention of Afonso and no mention of how this has anything to do with Ismail I.  --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research by DurChalen 

message: please change ((Persian)) to ((Persian language|Persian))
: - Arjayay (talk) 15:56, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persian 

message: c. 1488 C.E. in the remote frotress down 1,200+ km in Estakhr in the region of Fars. That is a vital information in my opinion. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 07:35, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Please could you provide details of the source of this information. MPS1992 (talk) 18:17, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes I will add this, just finishing up the source which has many editors and authors Alexis Ivanov (talk) 07:35, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shah Ismail was in jail at the age of 1 and a half 

message: I added the physical appearance of the Shah as a separate paragraph. Didn't want to mingle on the Origin, or the Life paragraph. My edits are being examined by my mentor  Alexis Ivanov (talk) 07:35, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Physical Appearance 

message: :I would just like to extend my thanks to all colleagues who edit and improve this article, and your co-operation with my mentoree Alexis Ivanov. I have noted a marked improvement in the working relationship between all parties and the significantly constructive direction that article improvement has taken since my mentorship offer was accepted by Alexis. Mentorship is the often the cinderella of WP. It is underused but can calm and improve working attitudes and collective working hugely while assisting in editor retention. My thanks to you all. Regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 01:03, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appreciation to all contributors to this article for mentoring co-operation 

message: Why my reference and text was deleted by someone regarding Azerbaijani Turkic being official language during Shah Ismael time? This is clearly mentioned in WikiPedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijani_language >> History and evolution >> Second paragraph 
Turkic language of Azerbaijan gradually supplanted the Iranian languages in what is now northern Iran, and a variety of languages of the Caucasus and Iranian languages spoken in the Caucasus, particularly Udi and Old Azeri. By the beginning of the 16th century, it had become the dominant language of the region, and was a spoken language in the court of the Safavids and Afsharids.
Why some people trying to cover this fact making Wikipedia bias? 
I purpose to add this fact to this scholar, And edit below part 
Ismail was also a prolific poet who, under the pen name Khaṭāʾī (which means "he who made a mistake" or "he who was wrong" in Persian), contributed greatly to the literary development of the Azerbaijani language.[7] He also contributed to Persian literature, though few of his Persian writings survive.
to>>
Ismail was also a prolific poet who, under the pen name Khaṭāʾī (which means "he who made a mistake" or "he who was wrong" in Persian), contributed greatly to the literary development of the Azerbaijani language.[7] Starting from him, Azerbaijani Turkic language was spoken language in court of Safavids and eventually this was followed by Afsharids.  He also contributed to Persian literature, though few of his Persian writings survive.
I think this proves other information in Wikipedia page and doesn't contradict to any issue and makes this article unbiased. Mirhasanov (talk) 18:00, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop pov-pushing, thanks. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:04, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

text: What? You added the citation "An Abridged edition of the "STORIA DO MOGOR " of Niccolao Manucci, translation by William Irvine, THE NEGOTIATIONS FAIL page 19"? That's not RS. Also, there's a reason sevral users are reverting you. Reach consensus instead of trying to force your edits. What you have done is clearly not an improvement, and smells of pov-pushing. Also, you might wanna read the name of the users in the edit summary, as it was me who reverted you recently, not that IP. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:13, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you want me to say? I already told you, it's not RS, read Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Even if the source was reliable, it's irrelevant information to have in the lede, just like what you did at Feyzullah Mirza Qajar - please stop trying to force something something Turkic into the lede. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:21, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

text: This pattern of making disruptive edits the whole time (spreading unsourced-irredentist content, writing WP:tl;dr text on talk pages, edit-warring, using links that fail WP:VER/WP:RS, etc.) really needs to stop. You were warned on numerous occassions (incl. AA2), what seems to be to no avail. If you make one more WP:TENDENTIOUS edit, you will be reported. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:03, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Azerbaijani Turkic was official language during Safavids starting with Shah Ismael 

message: I added information with with authoritative sources. What is the problem in my edits?SaHiB.SHaKHaYeV (talk) 15:28, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why my edits are wrong? 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:56, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Why is there no transcription into Azerbaijani if Azerbaijani was literally his native language? HistoreIsmail (talk) 19:56, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transcription of the name Ismail Shah 

message: The mans father is not KURDISH. He is a turcoman tribe leader. please correct this. also fathers middle name is OKTAY, which is itself a TURKIC name Bojinho1990 (talk) 05:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Rehsarb (talk) 12:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2024 

message: In popular culture
Games
Ismail has been as hero unit and a campaign in Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - The Mountain Royals Dlc.
source: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Ismail Arthur of Brazil (talk) 16:45, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Fandom is a user generated source and hence is considered unreliable. Liu1126 (talk) 00:35, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 11 January 2024 

message: Shah Ismayil was born in the city of Ardabil. He is of Turkish origin. He had his own Azeri Turkish. He wrote many works in this language. There is no evidence that he is a Kurd. All this shows that he is a Turk. 109.127.41.99 (talk) 02:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shah Ismail was a Turk, not a Kurd.