Talk:2007 Pan American Games medal table

message: I have looked at the editing history of the above article, and the talkpage there and here and at User:Jared. I would make the following points; Wikipedia is a collabrative project, and anybody can edit. This means that no one person has the final say in how content should be presented, including the originator, and that consensus should be reached. By choosing to edit the English language version of Wikipedia means you have agreed to edit by the rules, policies and guidelines of the English language Wikipedia. A lack of communication skills in the endemic language does not allow you to disregard or not respond to the concerns of other editors, especially if you continue to edit in the manner which gave rise to the concerns.
Since there were initially two editors I would suggest that both you and User:Jared seek the opinion of a third party and attempt to form a consensus between the three of you. I note a third editor has now contributed to the article, so you might consider requesting their assistance. I shall copy this comment to the article talkpage, and I request that all parties endeavour to reach agreement there. LessHeard vanU 21:10, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For me, this layout is better. Showing all information of organized and clear form. Best regards, Felipe C.S ( talk ) 21:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  copy of comment left at User:João Felipe C.S's talkpage 

message: OK, so I'm here because I'd like to compromise on a solution to the page layout. My concerns are as follows:
*The table is broken down by day.
:*Is this original research, or are there reliable sources which list the day-by-day tables?
*The page is redundant, as in it lists information more than needed.
:*For example, if the top table shows that a nation has no medals, then why should the day-by-day tables show those nations as well if we already know there was no medal on that day?
*The IOC code has its own column.
:*The codes could easily be listed next to the country name if  is used, right?
First off, the page needs citations to prove that day-by-day tables are not original research. This should be easy and as long as they're there, the tables are fine. Otherwise, I think that they should be removed due to policy violations.
Next, it is not necessary, in my opinion, to have listed multiple times that a nation did not get a medal on a certain day. For example, take this precedented style of medal tables on 2006 Winter Olympics medal count: if you go into edit on this revision, you will see that all nations having not won a medal are commented out, and editors are advised to cut and paste the nation into the main table only when they have won a medal. This is what is used on about a hundred medal tables, so I think that it would be safe to use this precedent, especially seeing as how it comes from WP:OLYMPICS, a progressive and hard-working wikiproject.
And last, the Olympics WikiProject is currently using  on all medal tables in order to help assimilate a country code with the country (see this section of the talk page). I've created  for the same purpose, because it removes the necessity to create a separate column for the country code, and displays the code in a non-intrusive way that has long been precedent of WP:OLYMPICS.
I believe that I make a valid case for my arguments, but I am willing to compromise with you or others if you believe that you have a strong case for your suggested methods. └Jared┘┌t┐  22:08, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Layout 

message: *The table is broken down by day.
:*This is a original research. See the source. It is simple. It is enough to bring update the table in accordance with the day. 
*The page is redundant, as in it lists information more than needed.
:*The question is aesthetic here. All information is presented to make the tables are of the same so great.
*The IOC code has its own column.
:*A dedicated column to the codes organizes the table.
Don't exist sources that present the medal count day-by-day. What we make is update the table in accordance with the day. Using the official website as reference.
This article isn't part of the WP:OLYMPICS. 
And sorry. My English is not good. Felipe C.S ( talk ) 22:41, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So that's it, you've laid down your irrefutable arguments and the case is closed... Parutakupiu talk || contribs 04:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re:Layout 

message: If I understand this, are we going to have sixteen versions (one set every day) of two medal tables (men & women) on this page by the end of these Games?  And all 32 tables would include a set of zeroes for the dozen or two nations that won't win any medals?  What a disaster! Andrwsc 03:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you that there is no need to have a lot of tables on this page. Just one table, like in the 2004 Summer Olympics medal count article, is enough. Actually, the article looks much better with just one table. For the same reason, the separated men's and women's table should also be removed. --Carioca 05:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Per the consensus here, I've gotten rid of the zeros (commented them actually) and the men/women table. I'm the only one who's mentioned the dislike of the IOC code column thus far, so I didn't get rid of that in lieu of using . └Jared┘┌t┐  16:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I also dislike the IOC code column… —MC 19:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What to choose: writing and moving the IOC codes everytime or hardcode them in a template so they appear always near their respective NOC and never have to write them again? Go ahead and use  that you politely created for these Games. Parutakupiu talk || contribs 22:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What a mess 

message: I would like to point out that recently, two medal count pages were deleted in an AfD because they were per capita medal tables, which consensus agreed that they violated WP:OR, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOT. Now, if we can find some way to make sure the newly-added columns do not violate the three policies listed above, I'd be fine with it, but due to the precedent already set and the lack of notability for these types of tables, I don't believe these columns should remain here.
On a generalized note, this is a medal table page. There need not be anything fancy-dancy here, like separate men's/women's counts, day-by-day counts, separate columns to denote a different way of viewing the rankings, etc. Just a simple medal table should do. See any of the Olympics medal counts for a consistent if you need guidance on style. └Jared┘┌t┐  12:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: fixed. Perakhantu 17:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Per capita medal tables 

message: We're in the 4th day of these Games and there are only two per-day tables — anyone interested in resuming the task? In my opinion such tables shouldn't even exist, the total medal count is enough. Parutakupiu talk || contribs 22:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ya, I really don't think the day-to-day tables are necessary. We should take them out. Anyone oppose? Ô 19:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I absôlutely dô nôt ôppôse! └Jared┘┌t┐  20:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Please, remove it. --Carioca 06:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Day-by-day tables 

message: Look, why we don't show the all information? Thus it seems that some countries don't participate on the competition, and is not possible to know the position of the Virgin Islands for example. Felipe C.S ( talk )
;Support the suggestion
# Felipe C.S ( talk ) 16:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change the table 

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