Talk:Golden Horde

message: Modern Tatars, also known as Kazan Tatars of Tatarstan are not descendants of medieval Tatars, they are descendants of Volga Bulgaria, so they are Bulgars. They even never were nomads, they always were sedentary and they look european. The main population and army of the Golden Horde were nomads, whose descendants are modern Kazakhs, Nogais, Bashkirs, Crimean Tatars (not Kazan Tatars) and Karakalpaks. Those nomads of the Golden Horde were all named "Tatars" by Europeans and "Uzbeks" by other Asians. The only reason why modern world mistakenly thinks that Bulgars are descendants of medieval nomads is that Bulgars were the first turkic-speaking nation that was colonized by Russians and as sedentary nation they were more numerous and adopted European culture and education faster, then Bulgar intellectuals formed a new identity and wrote a new history for their people, just using the fact that they speak turkic language and are muslims. We should get the world to know who are the real descendants and heirs of the Golden Horde, the real nomads, Kazakhs, Nogais, Bashkirs, Crimean Tatars (not Kazan Tatars) and Karakalpaks. Bekzatakhmetov (talk) 12:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Today's sedentary european pacifist turkified finno-ugric Kazan Tatars (Bulgars) are not descendants of the Golden Horde nomad warriors 

message: change chancery to chancellery 46.97.177.203 (talk) 09:04, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Reason? Beshogur (talk) 09:50, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:04, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2021 

message: A good portion of this article is based solely on a work from 1953, which reflects the prejudices and biases of the time. Surely there’s newer sources?  Volunteer Marek  04:48, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Umm… do I really need to go through and tag everything with “better source needed”?  Volunteer Marek  05:12, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  1953 source 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:22, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: @User:Qiushufang, you reverted my edit with “ rv deletion of cited content ,” but did you even look at my original edit and read my edit summary?? The exact same passage is repeated twice in the article, and it has a non-POV quote poorly translated from an old source (there was no “Russian custom” nor “Russia” in Nevsky’s time). I left one version plus improved it from the exact same source. —Michael Z. 01:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for for the inconvenience. Yes I realize the passage exists twice, but I thought it was worth mentioning in the main history body. Perhaps it could be shortened. I have no problem with the translation of Russia as Rus' or Slavic in this instance. Qiushufang (talk) 01:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. I will restore it and add a mention in the other place.  —Michael Z. 02:02, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I have done that, with a bit more description from the original source. The event is actually mentioned three times in the article.  —Michael Z. 03:00, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert by Qiushufang 

message: Golden Horde was formed in 1240's or 1259 by Batu Khan, in todays Europe to Kazakhstan. While the Golden family was from Mongolia was from 1180's to 1210.Gemmaso (talk) 09:12, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  This has nothing to with Golden Horde 

message: Also Ilkhanate, Chagatai Khanate.
First your dates listing are problematic. Did those states suddenly become "functionally independent sovereign state" in 1260? You have to provide, where exactly the source state that Golden Horde was a "functionally independent sovereign state" and suddenly turned into "Great Horde"? I don't even know what this means. Great Horde is the period of Golden Horde, losing almost all areas except the steppes around Don and Volga. Also it was discussed on Talk:Great Horde that 1459 isn't the date of the establishment of the Great Horde, but rather 15th century as whole, without a precise date. 
Also what about the gaps? It should be 1242–1259 and 1259–1458 for example, as well as using small text on the infobox. This is disruptive editing and WP:OR. Beshogur (talk) 17:15, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Pervezmusk seems like a really stubborn problem editor. However, I am noticing a problem with the stable version of the article, which gives an SFN citing Halperin (1987) for the date of 1242-1502. There is nothing on page 78 of Halperin (1987) about dates. Most reliable sources give a date of 1227-1502 (see for example Encyclopedia Britannica). - Hunan201p (talk) 18:56, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Halperin (1987) stood for a while, so that doesn't mention any date at all? Beshogur (talk) 20:26, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Some scholars say 1221 as well, some mention 1241. It seems like there is not fixed establishment date. Beshogur (talk) 20:30, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Ya unfortunately it looks like the longstanding version was just using failure-to-verify. I don't know how this happened and it doesn't really matter; in any case it's clear that Pervezmusk is unjustifiably edit warring. The article should reflect what the majority of sources say, perhaps with a "sources vary" disclaimer. - Hunan201p (talk) 22:48, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  how do you propose to change the date? 13th century–1502 or a certain date–1502? Beshogur (talk) 10:51, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

text: Who says that, ? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:43, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits done by {{ping|Pervezmusk.}} 

message: who is fedor? Gediminas did not have such a brother. 88.223.213.190 (talk) 20:57, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fedor