Talk:Baháʼí Faith in fiction

message: Obviously this is just a starter.
Hope people enjoy the adventure - form what I've talked with other Baha'is about it seems few know of these references except for those in the mass media like the Simpsons.
One article I know that tried to review the Faith and Scifi at http://www.irosf.com/q/zine/article/10017 I actually wrote a rather long response to thinking the attempt was basically rather simplistic and begged for much more work. The place requires a login but you can read my response without login at http://www.irosf.com/forum/thread.qsml?thid=10045 . I just found a "re-examintaiton" at http://www.nanobison.com/story6.htm ....--Smkolins 01:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We have to be a little careful of what we put in Wikipedia.  Wikipedia has a Wikipedia:No original research policy, and thus we can't put up our own reviews of books, etc. Facts, statements, etc, have to be cited.  -- Jeff3000 20:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  These comments aren't part of the article - just an example of other places that reference the idea of Baha'i Faith in fiction. Are you saying these comments aren't to be even in discussion? As for the reviews for the article - they are ment only an examples of work and how it exemplies the presence of the Baha'is Faith, teachings or notable figures, or individual Baha'is in the realm of fiction. I've even gone back and put in references to where they say they are Baha'is.--Smkolins 01:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't meaning that we can't use them in this discussion space, but as editors we cannot make our own reviews of work and post them in articles.  Ideally there should be secondary sources as citations. -- Jeff3000 03:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: untitled

message: I think he has a rather singular distinction as being a prominant author as well as a Baha'i (of several books and associated with a TV series and movie adaptation I can quite remember at the moment.)--Smkolins 20:36, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Never heard of him. -- Jeff3000 20:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's some work of his in Baha'i Studies -  - he's at www.burlbarer.net,  a blog of him at  - shoot, he has a wiki entry!  which sites his work with "The Saint" series/movie - I beleive the book version has a reference to the Hidden Words. His websites are in transition, one of his old ones mentioned both his work and his religion.--Smkolins 01:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the section since he doesn't mention the Baha'i Faith in his work, which is the subject of this article. -- Jeff3000 03:38, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. BTW I beleive he does mention it if briefly. I beleive there is a mention of a Hidden Word in his recent remake of The Saint but it did not get into the movie adaption. I don't follow his work, it not being my cup of tea as they say, so I'm not sure how much he really mentions the Faith or not but my impression is that it's not a important theme, crucial to the plot or is used as the background in which everything happens as the other entries do. However he is an active author both in Baha'i oriented works and in publishing mystery/crime/spy novels - surpassing even Maya in prominance though she certainly has a serious body of work.--Smkolins 11:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burl Barer 

message: Yes it really has two "a"'s - see for example.--Smkolins 01:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  spelling of Kaathryn 

message: I can think of a couple of plays written by or about the Baha'i Faith that deserve a section - A Dress for Mona which is an account of the martyrdom of a Baha'i in Iran in the '80's - http://bahai-library.com/?file=perry_dress_mona that has been presented on stage several times in small productions. I beleive there was also one called the King Fisher as well that I recall seeing referenced as a traveling play.... --Smkolins 01:45, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  plays 

message: Just wondering - there are precious few places that specifically mention the Baha'is Faith in relation to some of the publications - and yet the content is not to my mind disputed even by the authors, yet as such angles on the them are rare how are we to avoid "our own reviews"? I understand the main point of this to be an avoidance of the original work issue and also to avoid simply self-agrandizing but then there is stating something that is simply true. --Smkolins 12:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If we want to be completely abiding by Wikipedia policy, then we should not state things that are just facts, but instead things that are verifiable (see WP:V, and WP:RS).  -- Jeff3000 13:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:   our own reviews 

message: a couple single works have come to my attention but I'm still learning about them - The Golden Age: Thy Kingdom Come. Published by: PublishAmerica (2005) by  tk ralya, and The Island of the Same Name. Bend, Ore.: Manifest Books (1997) by Joseph Sheppherd. Both are leaps into the future with a strong Baha'i subtext but other than that I have no info yet. Anyone know more about them?--Smkolins 17:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know Joseph Shepherd. He lives near me. Just thought I'd mention that.... Cuñado  - Talk 05:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well then you should congratulate him. I just finished reading the book. I was very gripped by the second half. I'm not sure how to phrase this in the article but of everything I've read so far his is the only one which deals with the fact that Baha'is beleive in a Major and Minor plan of God and that the Baha'i Faith is the Minor plan (if we do our duty well enough.) The majority of the book deals with what I would short-hand in Baha'i circles as a way the Major plan of God brings society towards its destiny. Nicely done. I'm thinking of writing up an article for World Order and one factor (and thus original research not for here) might deal with some of this.... The one published article on the Baha'i Faith and fiction compares the religion to Star Trek (and then proceeds mostly to immediately do something else in my view) has perhaps one good point - that in the view of the history of Star Trek there is a sense that Earth had to get it's act together before joining the spacefaring peoples. This is comparable to the view that we should get our house in order and not wait for something else to either distract us or do it for us, roughly a Baha'i pov. The mechanics of arriving at a kind of utopia as it were. And as part of that history there are references to various forces and wars and etc about how earth got there in Star Trek. But things like the Matrix movies, which call for and have some kind of mass change in society, completely side step *how* such a change is wrought. After the first movie I really hoped they'd work that angle but instead the amost completely avoided the topic - in a sense giving up that large scale change is really possible. The other works covered in this article don't much deal with that or even at all. Mr. Sheppherd's does. If Mrs. Ralya's books continue perhaps she will deal with this theme too but so far it's unique!
He also predicted a few things for 2006 that haven't come to pass and some that have for different reasons. It'll be alittle interesting to see if something of the core of his predictions will come to pass - 2006 is when it all begins to really accelerate....--Smkolins 02:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  another couple sections 

message: Ran across that entirely by accident. I was trying to track down a reference to the Jeapoardy TV show, though not fictional, that has mentioned the Baha'i Faith a few times. I ran across the fact that james (Bud) Humpreys, editor of the American Baha'i form 1997-? was a 3 day champion on Jeopardy (most of the way down this page and was trying to track down more info - still trying to figure out is there enough material for an entry and where - perhaps the popular media section needs to be expanded into it's own section but keep smaller fictional references here...) when a link in the google list said something about Sherlock Holmes and Baha'i....
The reviews of the book and it's sequel aren't very complimentary but at least there was a sequel.... I'm also trying to figure out of the Bill Paxton author is a Baha'i or not, and also see references to a Bill Paxton actor who may or may not be the same person....--Smkolins 14:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm still trying to narrow down which Bill Paxton is the author here - I'm fairly sure it's not the actor. I've read through lot's of lists of his works and they never mention authoring a book. I also found one reference to a Bill and Kersten Paxton in Sweden or teaching swedish and Kerstin is also the name of the illustrator of the book.... but here's a link to a fello that lives in Missouri.--70.41.146.174 22:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Confirmed the author is not the actor. I'm waiting on a reference depending on how the author wants this clarified.--Smkolins 02:54, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sherlock Holmes - surpise! 

message: A kind reader emailed me the basic ref but I think she's written two fiction  books but can't find too much about the second one - Paper.
:There is a bit more on the novel 'Paper' now in the article Bahiyyih Nakhjavani. Wiki-uk 04:21, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bahiyyih Nakhjavani's books - surpise! 

message: I know it's not fiction, but it is mass media....
BTW, I found four references to Baha'i in Jeopardy - 
The first may have been Game #2861 - Monday, January 27, 1997, Double Jeopardy! Round, 19TH CENTURY AMERICA for $1000 "This religion that promotes a universal faith was introduced to the U.S. from Persia around 1893".
Game #4340 - Friday, June 13, 2003, single Jeopardy round, KEEP THE FAITH for $1000: 'The prophet of this religion, Mirza Husayn Ali, is known as Baha'u'llah or "Glory of God" to the faithful."
This may have been just a mistake - the problem may have been with the question proposed rather than the answer given by the show but we're mentioned here... Game #4601 - Monday, September 13, 2004, Double Jeopardy! Round, RELIGIOUS TITLES for $1600 - "Bhai, Sardar" was the answer and "What is Bahá'í?" was the wrong question - turns on it should have been "What is Sikhism"?
The last time was Game #4812 - Tuesday, July 5, 2005, Double Jeopardy! Round, Beliefs for $2000 - "Incorporating elements of Islam & others, this religion was founded in Iran in 1863". 
I recall some announcement from External Affairs to not respond to such "errors" and let them handle such issues as it is of national importance. --Smkolins 15:35, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jeopardy! 

message: Thought to add places for further reading. Kind of an anotated bibliography.
Seem good?--Smkolins 23:52, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: exactly what they are supposed to be for, but only the most relevant. It should not become a link farm.  More information can be found at WP:EL. -- Jeff3000 02:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I just looked at how they are organized now, and usually that's not the way External links works.  I would change to a suggested reading. -- Jeff3000 02:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. The idea was to reference stuff not already footnoted somewhere or to extend the relevance of some of them.... I agree it should not be a link farm, but it should note other major or important bodies of work I think.--Smkolins 02:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links 

message: Well i'm getting mixed references. No mention of the religion in the formal review here -  or here  , though it is mentioned here in the second review -  as mentioned above. So it seems possible that the religion is a major component of the book and that angle is not much played up in the other reviews.... But we still need to establish not only whether the religion is an important aspect of the book but also what to say about it - so far the article has summary of the story with an angle on the context of the religion and a quick summary statement about what the context or distinguishing quality of the covereage was....--Smkolins 03:21, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isabel Allende and '''The Infinite Plan''' 

message: as part of reviewing the whole article I ran across some curiousities as well as stylistic innovations I'm looking at encorporating...
===Curiosities===
One of the curiousities is a ref in the introduction for "Found in World Order, Pages 29 to 31, Volume 12, Number 4" which seems to have been misplaced...--Smkolins 13:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  as part of  review of the internal structure... 

message: One of the curiousities is a ref in the introduction for "Found in World Order, Pages 29 to 31, Volume 12, Number 4" which seems to have been misplaced...--Smkolins 13:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Curiosities

message: this article seems to refer to some possibly fictional references to the religion. Not sure though and darned hard to find I'll bet. But I thought to mention it here....--Smkolins 00:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  as part of early mentions in the west 

message: I think I'm probably confusing this with his use of Esperanto in his books, but I had an idea that Harry Harrison talked about the Baha'is somewhere.  I just checked out his article, and there's a substantial mention of his connections with the Esperanto movement, but someone on the talk page suggesting that they think he's an atheist because he apparently had some trouble getting one of his books published because the central character was atheist.  It did remind me that I'd read his Eden books before, which again have a great interest in the language used by the intelligent lizards on that alternative Earth.  --PaulHammond (talk) 22:59, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know Harry Harrison and only some about Esperanto. But from what I do know it's very probable, but not citable, that Harry knew of the religion through his connection with Esperanto. If someone does find something it'll be an interesting addition if it's not a trivial reference.... Smkolins (talk) 02:55, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harry Harrison connection? 

message: # Novel places plight of Iran’s Baha’is front and center
#"Tom Clancy - in one of his novels in which the Iranian gov't is using Ebola virus as a weapon, they try it out on imprisoned criminals and Baha'is." ?? Smkolins (talk) 00:56, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  a few updates? 

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