Talk:Inayatullah Khan Mashriqi

message: This page needs an extensive removal of POV, clean-up, formatting and addition of more references. Rama's Arrow 04:09, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  May 2006 

message: I have tried to edit this to comply more closely with usual WP practice. I have written a short introductory section and replaced 8 external links to websites apparently owned by the subject's grandson, with a single link from which the other sites can be reached. I think more work is needed on the article. At present it contains a rather too much in the way of expressions of praise and tributes to Mashriqi and would be better balanced if there were more details of his works and struggles as leader of Khaksars to substantiate the tributes. I also think it would be useful to introduce some other references to show the wider perspective in which his work is held rather than to rely mainly on his grandson's websites and books, although it is clear that he has assembled a great deal of information about his father working through newspapers and Government archives in Pakistan and London. Op. Deo 15:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: apparently you managed to remove  tag which causes confusion. I have put it in Notes now. pls be careful in future --Islescape 00:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: On this occasion it was not me who made the mistake, but an unregistered editor who may not be very familiar with the syntax and editing process. I am rather concerned that the article is still unbalanced lacking detail and with too much emphasis on tributes. I will search out more references to try and obtain a sample of authoritative views independent of the the work of the grandson's websites and works, which are the major references at present. Op. Deo 15:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up 

message: I think the anonymous editor at 65.110.153.102 is wrong to rely so heavily as a source on the works and the websites of Mashriqi's grandson Nasim Yousaf. To me these seem designed to only to report things which present Mashriqi in an exessively favourable light. I think, this is managed by Nasim Yousaf, so information removed if it did not match with his views.    
My attention was first drawn to this through the description in this article of his academic career. But, I then found the whole of the article has the sound of an exercise in hagiography. Both User:Rama's Arrow and I have called (see above) for a wider range of sources to be consulted. I have found several, but when I try to introduce these to provide a balanced picture from the literature anything that is not fullsom praise of Mashriqi is being removed by 65.110.153.102 and in many cases my sources are also being removed.  
After the latest deletions by 65.110.153.102, a careful study of the sources demonstrates clearly to me that there are mistaken quotation of sorces  on Yousaf's website. here is what he says on page http://www.allamamashraqi.com/mashraqipraised.html
 
“Inayatullah Khan of Christ’s College [University of Cambridge], besides gaining First Class in Oriental Languages obtained Honours in Natural Sciences Tripos. He became Wrangler after only two years residence . . .” The Times, London, June 17, 1911
But I have carefully copied the following from that issue of the Times and one can clearly see that the words which are in quotation marks on Yousaf's website have in fact been edited to remove mention of the fact that the Natural Sciences examination result was a third class, and in fact Mashriqi was 27th wrangler, which means that 26 mathemetics students got higher marks than him:
University Intelligence
Cambridge, June 16.
The following further tripos lists were issued today:-
.........
Natural Sciences Tripos Pt I
....
Class III
....
Ds Inayat Ullah Khan, Christ's
......
Oriental Languages Tripos
Class I
Ds Inayat Ullah Khan, Christ's
Arabic I, II. Persian I, II.
....
Inayat Ullah Khan, who was bracketed 27th wrangler in 1909, his second year of residence, also today obtained a Third Class in the Natural Sciences Tripos, Part I. He was born on August 28, 1888, and was educated at the Forman College, Lahore, the Government College, Armritsar, and the Punjab University.
Now all this may seem rather pedantic, but look then at the file name in the url of the page quoted above  mashraqipraised.html . The choice of the word praised could be saying something about the mindset of the author.
Even more worringly look at the following extracts from a related website http://allama-mashriqi.8m.com/warning.html and draw your own conclusions after reading the whole website.
PUBLIC NOTICE Warning to Anti-Mashriqi Writers and Speakers ..... Mashriqi was one of the greatest statesmen ever born. He extended unrivaled services to the nation. .... Under the circumstances, we, the family of Allama Mashriqi, have no choice left but to issue this warning: anything found to be twisted, concocted, or wrongly associated with Mashriqi or his family shall be liable to a lawsuit for defamation and damages.
I hope 65.110.153.102 can assure us that he is not connected to Yousaf's websites. If he then is he should read  Wikipedia:Conflict of interest to understand potential problems others may have with his work.
-- Op. Deo 19:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverting edits by 65.110.153.102 because of mistakes on referenced website dedicated to the praise of Mashriqi  

message: This page needs two things:
* a nice photo of Al Mashriqi (with permissions for public domain, of course)
* the true philosophy of Al Mashriqi, his life and works
--Islescape 12:12, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philosophy and photo 

message: This page was badly in need of NPOV. I have removed the POV material and copyedited the text and the references. It is not necessary to have a long section of tributes to Mashriqi, so I have trimmed that right down. 
At the moment, I feel there is a real lack of information on Mashriqi's role in the Khaksar movement in this article. Clearly, that movement is the main point of interest for a general reader, along with Mashriqi's literary works (which are quite well covered). Could we please have much more and some recognition of the fact that the Khaksars were controversial? At the moment, it makes very odd reading: lots and lots on what a noble scholar Mashriqi was, and then suddenly he keeps being arrested for no obvious reason. As I understand it, the Khaksars were emphatically a militant organisation, and Mashriqi's activities were controversial.
Another serious issue I think we need to resolve is the name of the page. Bearing in mind Wikipedia's policy against using titles, shouldn't the page be called "Inayatullah Khan al-Mashriqi"? This also extends to terms like "Holy Qur'an", which is specifically singled out for removal in the Manual of Style. -- TinaSparkle 16:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since nobody has objected to the comment about renaming the article, and since Allamah is indeed an honorific, I've just gone done it. - Sitush (talk) 07:29, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV and copyedit, and a few suggestions, plus name of page?

message: From what I'm reading about this man, I can't tell if he was pro-Partition or anti-Partition. He sounds as if he believes in a free united India with rights for all but it is also mentioned in other areas that he is a founding father of Pakistan. Somebody help me in this regard. Afghan Historian 01:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Is he pro or anti-partition?

message: There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Sabir was not part of the Khaksar movement.124.109.47.105 (talk) 07:07, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rafiq Sabir

message: Nasim Yousaf is cited extensively in this article. He is the grandson of Allama Mashriqi and has written a lot of independently published works on his relation, while continuing his "day job" as an exporter of textiles etc. Unfortunately, due to his family connection and also the clearly hagiographic nature of his various websites etc, there seems to me to be little chance that he qualifies as a reliable source. - Sitush (talk) 07:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nasim Yousaf 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Inayatullah Khan Mashriqi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927032636/http://www.humsafar.info/1943.htm to http://www.humsafar.info/1943.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:56, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Regarding your edit and the accompanying comment, if he wasn't Indian before there even was such a thing as Pakistan in 1947, then what was he? Largoplazo (talk) 17:58, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: He died as a Pakistani citizen, the "British India" tag being no more operative from 47 onward, I've barely seen an Indian public figure described as "a British Indian X and later Indian X", the British Indian empire was that, an empire, and not a nationality in the modern sense. Arslan-San 19:06, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Does your comment about Indian not being "a nationality in the modern sense" mean that you object to the openings of such articles as Gopal Krishna Gokhale (died 1915) ("... was an Indian political leader and a social reformer ...") and Swami Vivekananda (died 1902) ("... was an Indian Hindu monk, ...")? Largoplazo (talk) 20:48, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

text: Individuals were certainly called Indians before 1947 and their passport identified themselves as Indian. India as a nation was a founding member of the League of Nations in 1920, a participating nation in the Summer Olympics in 1900, 1920, 1928, 1932, and 1936, and a founding member of the United Nations in San Francisco in 1945. Don't peddle revisionist history here. Your edit has been reverted. See WP:RGW. Shashank5988 (talk) 20:58, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian nationality