Talk:War crimes trials in Soviet Estonia

message: It seems to me, that that you are trying to dismiss the trials and the evidence as "Soviet propaganda". This is a common atitude among Estonians, as evident in the on-line comments to one of the sources: Arvamused artiklile Omakaitse omakohus -- Petri Krohn 14:15, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And how exactly do we want to dismiss those trials? By trying to fix the title that doesn't cover the topic accurately? Are you sure we have the "atitude"? DLX 15:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Petri, your attempts to picture trials over holocaust perperators as trials over simple war criminals can be considered holocaust denial. Secondly Soviet Estonia was place there trials took place, that if they were neutral or not can be decided by reader. Finally, please no statements in style "you are bad for reason x and this is common attidute among Estonians".--Staberinde 20:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I have found a retrospective crystal ball in a box of old junk.  Guess what?  It postdicts that the only one to vote for expurgation of 'Holocaust' from the title was Petri Krohn.  Can your predictions match my awesome postdiction power?  I doubt it. Digwuren 12:26, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The page has been listed for four days, which you would have undubitably seen if you would have just checked your own link of WP:RM.  However, if you would have so done, you would also have seen that the policy does not require such listing. Digwuren 13:06, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments 

message: I remember reading from somewhere, that detailed conscript of trial's closing/final statement (probably wrong wording, I don't know what is correct) by Gerrets were released to the newspapers before he made that statement. I couldn't find the source, but it would be good to have that in the article. DLX 16:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Closing words of Gerrets 

message: I checked the WP:NOTE and WP:BIO and I would dare to say that those people mentioned in this article are not all notable enough to have their own articles. The problem relates to some other New Wave of Estonian Articles aswell. Suva 07:53, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability of people mentioned 

message: I'm confused, why is the requested move the same title?--Flamgirlant 17:18, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it was already moved. Suva 17:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So... can the requested move template be removed?--Flamgirlant 17:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure.  `'юзырь:mikka 18:59, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re:The requested move 

message: Here are the names of some of the witnesses who have given testimony at the trial or against Aleksander Laak in Canada. Also included are their ages at the time of the trial. I will try to update the list. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 08:33, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Witnesses  

message: The article should be renamed/moved since the current title is misleading. Whereas the 1961 trials, described in the first half of the article, relate mostly to the Holocaust, the Tartu trials of 1962 are unrelated to the extermination of Jews. A more appropriate title for the entire article would perhaps be "War crimes trials in Soviet Estonia" where the "Holocaust trial" is a subsection. The current title refers exclusively to the roughly 10,000 Jewish victims of the Vaivara concentration camp system, but it does injustice to the roughly 12,000 non-Jewish victims of Tartu (POWs, political prisoners, etc.). An alternative would be to divide it into two separate articles. --Vihelik (talk) 20:43, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you make a good argument for a rename. --Martin Tammsalu (talk) 20:58, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

text: I've done some further reading which suggests that some of the 12,000 killed in Tartu were Jewish. So I have moved the article back until it can be cleared up. --Martin Tammsalu (talk) 00:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the findings of the Estonian International Commission for Investigation of Crimes Against Humanity, 53 people were executed in Tartu for being Jewish. Of course, there may have been occasional but unidentified Jews among the POWs and political prisoners who were executed for "crimes" other than their ethnicity. There were also 80 Jews of Polish and Czech origin, brought from Narva conz. camp in 1943 to erase any evidence of earlier executions, who were eventually killed once their task was completed. Nevertheless, the percentage of Jewish victims in this particular case was so small and in proportion to their number in the general population as not to justify the labeling of Tartu 1961 trials as "Holocaust trials". Again, the article should either be renamed or split in two. --Vihelik (talk) 21:29, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading title