Talk:Enver Čolaković

message: http://www.hercegbosna.org/ostalo/colak.html this external link is dead --Palapa (talk) 17:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  link is dead 

message: Of course a Croatian publication is going to say he spoke the "Croatian language". Reliable sources and linguists state that he, you, and I speak Serbo-Croatian. See the articles and view the references if you are in doubt or, if you truly believe what you are saying, bring the matter of Croatian being a language there. Also this isn't your first attempt at trying to Croatize an individual on Wikipedia. -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 10:16, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, your accusations are baseless. The informations are sourced. You are removing the sourced information because of your own original research while at the same time you are also pushing your own point of view. I won't discuss is Croatian language a language, the disucssion isn't about the Croatian language (we have a separate artcile for it), but it's about Enver Čolaković. Until you add a source claiming he wrote in Serbo-Croatian we have nothing to discuss. By following your own logic you can also add that the official language of Croatia is Serbo-Croatian, that majority of Bosniaks, Croats and Serbs sepaks Serb-Croaian and at the same time violate censuses and sources. --Wüstenfuchs 10:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are you adding Croatian now? The man himself said he writes in the Bosnian language in order to preserve it. -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 11:23, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Cause he also wrote in Croatian (Legend about Ali-Pasha; 1944, etc.) --Wüstenfuchs 11:25, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: According to whom? He said from his own mouth that he wrote in Bosnian. He'd know better than anyone. -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 11:30, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the source (third party). --Wüstenfuchs 11:32, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

text: Respond to the above. I won't play your ridiculous charades anymore. There is a source where Enver himself says he wrote in the Bosnian language and that clearly takes precedence. I've already given you a list of why Bosnian should be first in the lead. Yet you continue with this nonsense. -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 16:28, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, let me respond you. After 1945 until his death he lived in Zagreb and was member of both Matica hrvatska and the Society of Croatian Writers. He was also a Croatian student. and was involved in the Croatian diplomacy and he also wrote in Croatian. He only mentioned he wrote the Legenda in Bosnian, he didn't mention other books. However, I may assume that he wanted to preserve the Bosnian dialect rather then language, ie Turkish words and all that, but that's not important anyway. The books that he wrote could revolve around Mars, which doesn't mean he is a Martian writer. --Wüstenfuchs 16:36, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I gave you plenty of time so I certainly already "let you". He only mentioned "Legend" in an interview about the "Legend"? No way! So I should assume the rest were in Croatian? What nonsense. He said "jezik" not "dijalekt" in that comment so please don't play dumb. He wrote about Bosnia because he evidently, as backed by sources, identified with it. -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 16:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, refrain yourself please. He only mentioned the Legend, and if we would guess that he wrote other books in Bosnian it would be an original research. The source I added is very clear, so please, keep your point of view for yourself and stop removing the sourced information. --Wüstenfuchs 16:53, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

text: You don't give me anything. You only gave the source for the Legned, but let me quote your own translation: "I started writing Legend with a specific purpose, to preserve our Bosnian language. Not the language of confessions or nations in Bosnia, but the language of Bosnia. Besides that I wanted to create a historical Bosnian time". Now, I wonder, where does he mention that he wrote all of his books in Bosnian? Probably in other books he didn't wanted to preserve "their Bosnian language", eh? :D --Wüstenfuchs 17:23, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't give me anything. Where does Enver himself say that he wrote in Croatian? Plus that's from an interview in 1971, but I suppose you would love to stick to your little theory? -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 17:46, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: He doesn't, the source does. And yes, I know the quote is from the 1971 interview. --Wüstenfuchs 17:50, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: He doesn't? So we've established Enver himself never said he wrote in Croatian, but that he did in Bosnian. So why should I assume that him writing in the Bosnian language was limited to "Legend"? Which was his most famous work. "Legend" was, for the third time, specifically mentioned because "Enes Čengić gave an interview with Čolaković about the "Legend"". Which was given in 1971. Again you have no evidence of Enver ever claiming to speak Croatian. What you do have is the irrelevant personal opinion of a random author writing about "Who is who in the Independent State of Croatia" and which cannot be of equal weight. -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 18:08, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's your personal oppinion. The book deals with biographies. Now, you can think of that interview what you want and you can also assume what ever you whant, but the fact that he didn't refer to any book except the Legend still remains. So, I have a source claiming he wrote in Croatian and you have a source he wrote a one book in Bosnian. --Wüstenfuchs 18:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Err no. For one even if it was limited to only his most famous work, which evades logic, that is more than he said that he wrote in Croatian, which is none. The bottom line is you have personal opinion of author dealing WWII NDH. I have the personal opinion of the writer himself. They aren't of equal weight. Remember "each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made and is the best such source for that context." -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 18:23, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The author is talking about the one book, out of which you made your own conclusion that all of his books were writen in Bosnian. This is original research. On the other side, I have presented the source that states he wrote in Croatian. Nevertheless you have number of sources that state he wrote and translated into Croatian, example Krešimir Nemec's book (Povijest hrvatskog romana: od 1945. do 2000. godine). --Wüstenfuchs 18:42, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't matter which conclusion you make. It doesn't matter if he was referring to one book or his entire career. You have no source that he himself suggested otherwise. The opinions of what others personally believe he wrote in are just that, their personal opinions, and are entirely irrelevant. They are NOT "the best such source for this context". Simple as that. -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 21:08, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  However, neither he stated he didn't wrote in Croatian. Simple as that. This discussion doesn't go anywhere. --Wüstenfuchs 21:56, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh boy logical fallacies are fun. He didn't say that he didn't write in Chinese either... You should know the difference between a positive and negative claim. The burden of evidence is on you. You make the claim he wrote in Croatian yet you have no evidence of him saying that he did in ANY capacity while on the other hand it's been established that he said that he wrote in Bosnian (regardless of whether you interpret it to be one book or many). -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 22:28, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither do you have a source he wrote all of his books in Bosnian. Look, this discussion is pointless. The first source says he wrote in Croatian, the other one says he translated Sinko in Croatian, the Hungarain writer. This can't be a logical falacy because there are sources claiming he acctualy wrote in Croatian. The falacy would be if I would claim he wrote in the Sinhala language, but I don't. Both languages must be included. --Wüstenfuchs 22:38, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

text: Haha, do you have a source of Hitler saying he is responsible for killing Jews? I'm getting tired of this discussion. You know, one might erase the whole article about Čolaković as everything in that article is acctualy fallacy, according to you. He never said he wrote in German and Hungarian, he never said he recieved any awards, he never said he was born in Budapest... --Wüstenfuchs 00:58, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  User talk page discussion