Talk:Skopje

message: There is a push to remove the usage of "North Macedonian" from Wikipedia by certain editors for ideological or personal reasons, and replace it with "Macedonian", even in geographical references where the reader has no way to know whether the reference is to the country or the region. I did what is often done in such cases, and, so as not to cause conflict with any editors, paraphrased the text so there is no need for "North Macedonian" to be used. But, because I was the one to do it and certain editors have a personal bias against me, it seems we are changing the stable version of the article in order to force adjectival forms everywhere, and have that form be "Macedonian" even where it makes no sense. --Antondimak (talk) 17:17, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, no. There is a push to remove the usage of "Macedonian" from Wikipedia by certain editors for ideological or personal reasons, and replace it with "North Macedonian". The worst of those editors is you. There is no reason to remove "Macedonian" in cases where it has been used before, and there is no need to use "North Macedonian" in cases where it hasn't, because, as you will finally have to get it through you head, we can use both. Obsessively messing around with these, as you have been doing, is disruptive. Go and find something else to obsess about. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:42, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  We can use none if that's the issue, I have no obsession with "North Macedonia". In my edit which you reverted, I didn't use "North Macedonia" even once. Specifically when referring to "the <something>est <thing> in North Macedonia", especially when it's something geographic (railway connections, highways) there is no way for the reader to understand whether you're referring to the country or the region. The phrase "daily trains also link Skopje with other Macedonian towns" could also mean "daily trains also link Skopje with other towns in Macedonia" (region) or "daily trains also link Skopje with other towns in North Macedonia". The phrase in the stable version of the article was "daily trains also link Skopje with other North Macedonian towns", which is unambiguous. Since there  are users with an ideological opposition to "North Macedonian", I changed it to "daily trains also link Skopje with other towns in the country", which is also unambiguous. This was reverted in favour of the ambiguous version. This is but one minor example of the problem. --Antondimak (talk) 19:26, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

text: For anyone else in the discussion who could be given the wrong idea by your comment, I don't and haven't been replacing "Macedonian" with "North Macedonian" anywhere. I'm just defending the stable version of the article (which used both terms appropriately) from an ideological attempt to change all instances of "North Macedonian" to "Macedonian", introducing ambiguities. In fact, at this point I'm defending my attempt to compromise by giving in to the demand to remove "North Macedonian" by paraphrasing the text in a way that it remains unambiguous. --Antondimak (talk) 19:52, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

text: I think you accidentally restored a version in the middle of edit warring. This is actually the last stable version. The controversial change was made on 19 February 2022, changing what had been stable for years. --Antondimak (talk) 07:45, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, yes, the version I restored is because the edit in the said paragraph (about towns), wasn't in line with WP:MOSMAC. However the other edits in the paragraph about economy, such as "Macedonian GPD" wasn't really against MOSMAC, which (fortunately or unfortunately), permits the use of terms such as "Macedonian Economy" even though the economy is about North Macedonia, and not about the economy of the broader region of Macedonia. If you still believe that the recent changes to GPD's paragraph may cause confusion, let me know and I will revert them, or at least the first instance of that word, for purposes of resolving issues of ambiguity, if you are happy with that. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 13:22, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I don't think this is ambiguous, which is why I didn't change it back to "North Macedonian". I do think this interpretation of this specific part of MOSMAC goes against the spirit of the RFC (which, if you remember, showed (by analysis of reliable sources) that adjectival references to the country should be "North Macedonian", and both "Macedonian" and "North Macedonian" could be used in edge cases where there is no clear reference to either the country or the culture). I think it would be better if we used neither "Macedonian" or "North Macedonian" in these cases to avoid controversy, as I did in my edit, but again I don't think it's ambiguous in this case. --Antondimak (talk) 14:38, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of "Macedonian" 

message: The Venus Punica presented in the article dates back four centuries before the stated one, on the photo. It is dated in the second century BC (NOT AD) and this is the paper on this link provided (second page, second paragraph): http://periodica.fzf.ukim.edu.mk/fab/FAB_02_(2012)/FAB%2002.22.%20Ončevska%20Todorovska,%20M.%20-%20The%20Statue%20of%20Venus%20Pudica%20from%20Scupi.pdf  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magnvss (talk • contribs) 16:00, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You perhaps did not read the linked article as carefully as needed, since on p. 355, the author clearly states: "The statue of Venus from Skupi was produced in the 2nd century AD by a leading sculptor of the Praxiteles school." Any other dates in the article refer to the historical lore of Venus, dating to the 2nd century BCE, but the statue itself is dated to the 2nd century AD. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:58, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Venus Punica's dating

message: Pjeter Mazreku reported in early 17th century (around 1620's or so I believe) that the town was mainly Muslim/Turk , and that these were of Albanian origin, the rest being Asiatic. And that it also contained some Jews, Serbs and some Greeks. The word 'Turk' was used as a word for a Muslim back then, didn't neccessarily imply an actual Turk. Same word he used for Prizren that it was inhabited by Turks/Muslims, who are mainly Albanians . TheCreatorOne (talk) 10:03, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pjeter Mazreku