Talk:BBC/Archive 2

message: Does anyone have any ideas as to how this can be improved? I personally feel that the paragraph about the "sexed up dossier" could be incorporated into the "Political controversy and neutrality" section. Any comments? -- Marknew 18:24, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Highlights Section 

message: Instead of resorting to a virtual shouting match, try the facts on for size.  Doing a simple Google search on the following words (and obviously eliminating BBC's own descriptions of itself) is a good start:
 bbc most respected news -site:.bbc.co.uk Click here to Google search it yourself
Most of the 21 examples cited by User:Mintguy show up in the top of the search results.  With some deeper plumbing, here's what it reveals, in order listed above previously:
* List - Winthrop, list of news links for a college
*  PR speak - VPR, Member station
* PR speak - KUOW, Member station
* Personal Web log - Charleshartman.org, from San Francisco
* BBC authored - on Ibiblio, job ad written by BBC
* List - Emojo, list of news links
* List - Getintola, list of news links, run by Nick Cousins
* Press release - Fighting Bull, press release announcing co-authored project with BBC
* Press release - VietnameseS.com, press release in partnership with BBC 
* PR speak - KCSN, Member station
* PR speak - WFIU, Member station, 
* Article - James Ferrabee, working journalist, Canada and Britain
* Article - Christopher Long, article on Croatia and BBC, British journalist
* Article - John Simpson opinion article, published on Telegraph.co.uk
* Article - PACNEWS article about Vanuatu television picking up BBC, no byline
* Press release - Info2Cell press release, working with BBC
* Personal Web log - Daily KOS, author Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, California
* PR speak - Energis, case study of helping its customer, BBC
* BBC authored - RWOnline, commentary by Mark Byford, BBC World Service Director
* BBC authored - BBCtv, Message by Robert Wallace, BBC Radio Kent editor
* BBC authored - BBCfootage, description from BBC News Archive
What we find is there are major problems using these citations as evidence. Immediately, 12 of the 21 can be ruled out -- they are either written by the BBC themselves or are public relations announcements from folks who do business with BBC.  Three are simply in a list of links to news Web sites, so not exactly strong proof either.  So we're left with six legitimate articles or personal web logs.  
Three of the writers work in the UK or have worked in the UK, and the two Web loggers are from California.  The last article had no byline, but reads more like a press release.  So in the end, we're left with five viewpoints all of whom are males from either UK or US.  (Not to specifically bash males or anything.)  Not very convincing evidence of the universality of BBC being the "most respected" in the world, to say the least.
The breakdown summary:
*Public relations (8) - cases of member stations announcing they are carrying BBC, or a company who worked in conjunction with BBC
*BBC authored (4) - BBC describing itself as "the most"
*Articles (4) - of these, three are associated with UK, one has no byline
*Personal weblogs (2) - two bloggers, both from CA, no comment :)
*Lists (3) - news source lists, listing BBC and a brief tagline of "the most..."
It's not constructive simply to refute others, so what evidence do we see out in the real world, and what alternatives are there?
*  Being "most respected" is cloudy enough that we should not use it.  Other outlets have cited unusual sources as having more "respect".  From Onlinepublishingnews.com (Google result #3), March 12, 2003, "World's most respected international news site: Guardian Unlimited?": The busiest news sites are US-based. But which non-US news source do Americans use most? According to new research the answer is the UK's Guardian Unlimited.   Is Guardian worthy of this title?  Probably not, but herein lies the danger of making these claims.
* Other journalistic writings don't use absolutes when talking about BBC.  We should strive to do the same.  From Atlanta Journal Constitution (Google result #9), BETH GARDINER, Associated Press, July 20, 2003, "BBC confirms dead scientist was source of Iraq report": "The BBC, one of the world's most respected news organizations, would not comment on its reason for making a rare exception to journalists' normal practice of refusing to name anonymous sources." 
* After the first 14 Google results cited above, the next three relevant results #15, #16 and #17 all use phrases that have been reasonably proposed here -- "one of the most respected" or "one of the world's most respected."  They may be on to something.  They are indeed credible alternatives.
We're all here because we believe in making a better Wikipedia.  Avoid hyperbole and go for credibility.  Fuzheado 08:39, 16 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: A Dubious Case for BBC as "Most Respected"