Talk:Aquinas College, Perth/Archive 1

message: Ive cleaned this article up in relation to length and made alot of daughter articles which house alot of the information and are all linked. If anyone would like to comment on them, positive and negative welcome, hopefully some good pointers. Thanks =) Smbarnzy 12:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: * College Website - www.aquinas.wa.edu.au
* College Annuals
* The Aquinian - College Newsletter
* FISH - Aquinas Magazine
* College Diary - this resource has been exhausted, i have got almost all information from it that is possible.
* Book On the College - there is a book on Aquinas in the Redmond Learning Centre, which can be loaned out, it has alot of historical information and would be useful for things like college headmasters, head boys and dux's.
* PSA Booklets - I have the 102nd annual PSA Aths booklet which has a list of all of the sports and winners since the establishment of the PSA, these type of resources are highly valuble to the sporting section, it would be good to have the results from the past 5 years on the Sporting Page.
* City Of South Perth
* Heritage Council
* Historial Society
* Govt Departments.
Smbarnzy 15:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where to get info 

message: This needs to be lengthened - So it can be made shorter with a main article link to the lengthened version like other sections - info needed. Smbarnzy 11:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Support, esp. parent bodies.  Fred
=== College Theme ===
I think this section should be reinstated. Ill ask Gnangarra as to why he deleted it. Smbarnzy 02:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: We need more information on this section - Possibly getting info from sources inside the college such as Br. Clery - hes been at the college for more than 20 years. Smbarnzy 13:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History Information 

message: I think this section should be reinstated. Ill ask Gnangarra as to why he deleted it. Smbarnzy 02:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  College Theme 

message: This should include something on the Canning River i think, including about Aquinas Bay and how Aquinas used it for swimming and now uses it for rowing. Smbarnzy 15:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Location 

message: This section does not have all of the college dux's, which are in the college library and can be noted there. Also the year 8 and 9 academic subjects are not listed. Smbarnzy 12:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This article has been deleted for not being notable/irrelevant to the topic. Thanks User: Hesperian for doing that for me. Smbarnzy 13:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Academic Studies 

message: More information is required on Aquinas College, Perth Sport page about all of the sports that the college participates and has participated in. eg. Boxing used to be a PSA sport. Smbarnzy 12:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sport 

message: This could possibly have its own article. If so, it would need alot more information, it could possibly encompass other PSA Schools Old Boys Association. Smbarnzy 02:52, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old Aquinians Assocation 

message: This article was rated B-Class. What do i have to do to make it better? i am kind of lost for direction in this area. Pointers much appreciated - Thanks. Smbarnzy 17:03, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Assesment 

message: I have found it interesting to watch this article improve. A lot of content instead of too liitle. A few comments:
* Too many headings and articles. Some sentences replacing tables or lists?
* "They had come to the new colony at the invitation of Bishop Matthew Gibney who knew of the work of the Christian Brothers in the other States and in England and Ireland ...(emphasis added)" could be reworded a bit. The MoS is the doc I have reread the most, WP:NPOV and WP:CSB are good too.
It will surely be G/A before long. Fred 15:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  General comments 

message: Publications, College Prooduction, Tours, Edmund Rice And Christian Brothers have been deleted from the article - 13th Dec. Smbarnzy 11:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted 

message: We are lacking in this department, i feel it is the only thing holding this article back from being a good article. It has all the info, all the references,but not all the pictures. Please upload some. Thanks =) Smbarnzy 12:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The main entrance would be a good picture for the History section as it has the capola from CBC Terrace which is of great historical significane to the college. Possibly a picture of the Mike Kinsella Hockey Pavillion would be useful. Thanks Smbarnzy 13:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: I wish to add a gallery of images to this article and some of them will be used in the article and the daughter articles of the College. Pictures with  ** next to them are wha we most desperately need. Please remove the names of images we have added. Smbarnzy 07:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List Of Pictures Required 

message: Ive added all of the references to the article, it is more than adequately referenced, but the references arent like hyperlinked etc like the proper wiki-style of doing references - we need help there. Thanks =) Smbarnzy 15:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ive added more references were possible, i think the only thing needing to be referenced further is the History, Faculty (infobox) and Notable Alumni. Smbarnzy 13:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I couldn't find "TW01" in the text. I would consider removing the references to "Ran02" and "Ran03" if you don't have anything to link to. For more information about references in general see Wikipedia:Footnotes. For several citation templates for different types of sources see Wikipedia:Citation templates. - Ilse@ 09:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I shall take an upload these pictures within by tues, wednesday latest —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Symode09 (talk • contribs) 07:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: I was thinking of making three new daughter articles for the Aquinas page, they are:
# - List of buildings and facilities at Aquinas College, Perth - have all the sporting grounds, buildings and facilities with large amount of images in a nice table etc.
# - Houses at Aquinas College, Perth - list all of the houses like the Scotch College, Perth page does.
# - Sport at Aquinas College, Perth - Have all the info on the PSA etc.
Smbarnzy 15:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New articles to consider 

message: Per the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Old Aquinians Hockey Club, the following articles need to be merged into this one, and then redirected here: 
*Old Aquinians Hockey Club
*Aquinas College Perth management structure
*Aquinas College Perth School System
*Aquinas College, Perth Sport
*Aquinas College Perth Infrastructure
*Aquinas College Perth Boarding
*Aquinas College Perth House System
Please discuss what needs to be merged, merge the information, and then redirect the above articles to this one. Thanks! ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the Old Aquinians Hockey club and Aquinas College, Sport should be kept as Old Aquinians Hockey club is completely separate from the college - except that it uses college facilities etc. and sport is a major part of the environment at Aquinas Smbarnzy 13:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge discussion per AfD  

message: Im not so convinced about the Mount Henry Peninsula section being made from a sub-section into its own section and the location being merged into the history section - it just doesnt seem to make sense to me. I think it should be Location with Mt Henry as a sub-cat. Please explain. Smbarnzy 07:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Layout 

message: ::In my opinion the article is improving, although there are still some problems with images:
::* :Image:Aquinas Logo.png – omits fair use rationale (2x)
::* :Image:CBC Plaque.jpg – omits copyright tag
::* :Image:Mount Henry Peninsula.jpg – the educational use only statement is contradictory to the GFDL license
::* :Image:Presentation Night.jpeg – omits copyright tag
::* :Image:House Shields.JPG – should not have contradictory license tags
::* :Image:Reds Logo.JPG – omits copyright tag
::* :Image:Uniform Formal Winter.jpeg – omits copyright tag
::* :Image:Uniform - Sport - Hockey.jpg – omits copyright tag
::* :Image:Aquinas Ties.jpg – omits copyright tag
::* :Image:Justice Day Picture.jpg – should not have fair use image that doesn't illustrate any text
::* :Image:College Website.jpg – should not have fair use image that doesn't illustrate any text
::* :Image:Student Intranet Portal.jpg – should not have fair use image that doesn't illustrate any text
::There is still work to be done! - Ilse@ 01:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The description page of :Image:Uniform - Sport - Hockey.jpg has not changed. - Ilse@ 13:37, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair use images should have a reduced resolution, and in the fair use rationale should also be explained why they are not replaceable. When attribution to the author is needed, maybe :Template:Cc-by-2.5 or :Template:Cc-by-sa-2.5 are appropriate licenses. - Ilse@ 13:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Problems 

message: The following material is from the discussions page of Aquinas College Perth Infrastructure 
Buildings
Are any of these building heritage listed, who were the builders and architects of each, as these things contribute to notiability. The article may have survived AFD with no consensus indicating that there are problems that need to be addressed. Gnangarra 12:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes they are im pretty sure the chapel, main building, humanities block and gym are like Class-A listed or something, there was some debate on it - in the city of South Perth Website somewhere.  Thanks Smbarnzy 15:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Check Heritage Council of WA's website also. Check Waroona, Western Australia to see an example of what I'm thinking of (ref 3) -  there's usually a shortened one that's just the listing, then a longer one like this one that gives the entire background and history. Orderinchaos78 05:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually - check right here and here Orderinchaos78 06:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  AC Infastructure 

message: The article is too long for a school article. Many of the things mentioned do not have to be mentioned, nor do they have the notabilty. See Trinity College, Perth for a suitable article size. Thanks, --Ali K 07:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Text needs considerable attention. I've done the Sport section and the things I notice include a lot of repetition, what I'd call "delayed punchline" (where you have to read the entire sentence to gather its meaning, and could potentially be misled until doing so), copious overlinking of common words and overbolding of the college's name wherever it appears. I don't know if other sections are as bad and I have a function to go to this evening, but if others (and especially the Aquinas editors) want to consider these points in reviewing the text of the article, I'd say feel free. Don't forget that compelling prose and logical flow are key GA/FA assessment criteria. If we work this correctly on the path to GA, it will greatly reduce the queries that can be raised at FA stage (and FA stage can be open public slather whereas GA is somewhat more collegial in nature). Oh, and a very quick glimpse at Junior, Middle and Senior School reveals a lot of unencyclopaedic content that could be trimmed (general criteria should be, if you can't prove it - or put it another way - if it is impossible to prove, it shouldn't be there.) Also, list or note form should be avoided *in* prose - if it's in the prose, it should be a full sentence. Orderinchaos78 08:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Overlinking appears throughout the article, not just in the sports section. I think a more presise, and cut down version of the article will still be able to make the criteria of FA. As it is now, from my perspective, there is no possible way. Articles on the House System need not exist. Remembering that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia is an important point. Would you open an encyclopedia and read a whole article on the House System of a particular school? While an article on the school may be needed, articles with specific information on a certain part of the school may not be. For example: Aquinas College, Perth Sport should not really have an article to itself, but should instead be merged to the main article. This is needed for all sub articles. If people want very detailed information about the school, and the small and presise article (that will, hopefully, exist in the near future) does not provide enough information, they can use the school's website, or contact the school directly. Its just something to think about. A small presise article is more likely to be useful than a many page novel about the school. --Ali K 11:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  In my view - the length of the article is good - it may have been a bit overdone with all of the junior middle and senior schools bullshit that was on there when you saw it last. But i have trimmed it back to where it should be. How is the Trinity article anything to be proud of - it is practically a start-class article. Aquinas college article offers all of the information required on the subject and a little bit more ;) Im not sure exactly how to reply to your comment but - what should be taken off then? thanks Smbarnzy 11:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

text: all of the daughter articles are going to be removed/merged into the article, most of that has taken place. Smbarnzy 11:09, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Another edit, another talk page note - I culled Junior School down to what I believe is an acceptable size. However, the result is now awkward and incomplete. It contains nothing about sport, for the only reason that the sport section in the original section could not be salvaged (it in effect had no content). I would encourage editors to add back something about sport, but keep it short and to the point, and specific to the junior section (as there is already other sections about sport in the article anyway). Orderinchaos78 16:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length of article 

message: I think breaking the junior, middle and senior school sections down into one instead of having 4 or 5 sections coming off each is a good idea. it makes the article less cluttered and easier to follow. Smbarnzy 16:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Junior, Middle & Senior School Sections 

message: The article seems to mention nothing about the name of the College and how it is named after St Thomas Aquinas etc etc? possibly included in the main article summary at the top. Smbarnzy 12:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - That should be either in a very early section or in the lead. It is buried deep in the Junior School section at present I believe. Orderinchaos78 13:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I was thinking of lead or history - although prob history, as i dont think it fits into the lead - but it prob should be in the lead, i think. Smbarnzy 14:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: === List Of Pictures Required ===
I wish to add a gallery of images to this article and some of them will be used in the article and the daughter articles of the College. Pictures with  ** next to them are wha we most desperately need. Please remove the names of images we have added. Smbarnzy 07:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: I wish to add a gallery of images to this article and some of them will be used in the article and the daughter articles of the College. Pictures with  ** next to them are wha we most desperately need. Please remove the names of images we have added. Smbarnzy 07:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List Of Pictures Required 

message: Hey everyone,
I've uploaded the following images,
Image:Aquinas_college_perth_foundation_stone.JPG
Image:Aquinas_college_perth_fascade.JPG
Image:Aquinas_college_perth_hughes_dining_hall.JPG
Image:Aquinas_college_perth_junior_school.JPG
I do not know if is just my pc but the pace seems to have been messed up, I'm off for now :)
NOTE: THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN MOVED TO THIS PAGE BECAUSE I ACCIDENTLY PUT IT ON THE WRONG PAGE!
symode09
symode09 21:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  images 

message: How is it that Bryan has won the 2007 Tuatha shield when the school year hasn't started yet?  If it is correct, the mechanics of how and when the shield is awarded needs to be explained in the article. —Moondyne 13:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The shield actually starts the year before, with one (or two) event/s from the previous year (2006) contributing to the next (2007) shield, i cant remember which one (possibly house esteddford or academic points)...but thats basically it. Smbarnzy 14:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tuatha shield 

message: Image sizes is something to thing about.  Per WP:MOS#Images, don't specify image sizes unless you have extreme aspect ratios or need to show detail in the thumb.  Unspecified image sizes will default to 180pixels (this can be changed in users' preferences).  The house shields is one which you could leave at (say) 300px because of the detail.  All the others could go back to unspecified sizes IMHO.  If you feel strongly that normal aspect images do need to be a bit bigger, I personally would never go more than about 250px and that would only be for an image which really needs prominence because of it having more important content.
I do like alternating left and right images, but if you start doing it you need to do it consistently - ie. don't go left, right, right, left.  
These things are minor I know, but if you want to head towards FA status, reviewers will shoot you down with little things like that.  The article is improving nicely.  Good work.  —Moondyne 04:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: There has been a few users suggesting that the image gallery should be deleted, as it will affect our GA nomination - although i think its a good addition of extra information on the college. I think we should have an image gallery on the buildings & infrastructure section with pictures of all of the buildings and infrastrucuture on that relevant page, oppinions wanted... Smbarnzy 10:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Gallery 

message: Some improvements I think needs to be made...
=== Peer Review ===
From the peer review that has been archived, i have made a short list of all of the problems areas:
* Expand the sections, each section should say more about it's subject, even if the information is repeated in the other articles. 
* work on researching and writing some articles on the relinks - Riverton Bridge, Paul Keaney (infamous paedophile/child abuser), Redmond Prendiville (youngest person ever to be ordained a catholic Archbishop anywhere in the world I believe), Matthew Gibney (spoke to Ned Kelly just before he was shot at the Glenrowan siege). Those three men are all interesting and notable characters and would add depth to the article IMO. They've been on my to-do list for a while and I'd be happy if someone got them off it for me ;) 
* What is the fee structure and how does it compare with other Perth colleges? There's a suggestion for a useful new article: Perth private school fees. Thats an issue lots of people want to know. 
* What scholarships are on offer? 
* What capital works (ie. building projects) are planned or underway. Colleges always seem to have some big capex projects happening. 
* The opening paragraph(s) should be a brief summary of the article that says all the most important stuff about the school. How would you tell us about the school if you only had thirty seconds to speak? 
* History section is pretty thorough but could flow better. I have a bugbear about normal quotes being marked up was pullquotes. Parts of the history section belong in the location section (e.g. "much of the property is still thickly wooded"), and the affiliations section has nothing to do with history. 
* Location should characterise where it is and what the site is like. It does that pretty well. But the article is about Aquinas, not the peninsula, not the river. Summary style isn't necessary and doesn't work here.
* Finally, a few questions: What are its values - is it overtly religious? How much does it charge? Is it elite? elitist? How is it rated by the wider community? Is it considered one of the better private schools in WA? Is it thought of as a sporting school that also offers academic programs, or as an academic program that also had a strong sporting tradition?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Smbarnzy (talk • contribs) 11:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion, the picture added is not of a high enough standard. There was already a red-back spider image on wikipedia of high quality. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Redback_frontal_view.jpg) --Ali K 02:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

text: New sporting uniforms are being introduced, this should be added to the uniform section aswell as the reason why (cost), and the changeover period for the uniforms aswell as when the uniforms are being introduced. Smbarnzy 12:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the images should be alternating and larger, it it way too boring, the article needs a bit more "oomf" symode09 09:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I definately agree Smbarnzy 09:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can I suggest you temporarily switch your screen resolution to 800x600 (there's still lots of people out there with 15 inch monitors) and view the article as they would see it.  A 400px wide image takes up half the 800 wide screen, and with the Wikipedia navigation bar on the left (approx 140px), there's not much room left for words to wrap around the image.  The article looks plain ugly. —Moondyne 01:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvements 

message: From the peer review that has been archived, i have made a short list of all of the problems areas:
* Expand the sections, each section should say more about it's subject, even if the information is repeated in the other articles. 
* work on researching and writing some articles on the relinks - Riverton Bridge, Paul Keaney (infamous paedophile/child abuser), Redmond Prendiville (youngest person ever to be ordained a catholic Archbishop anywhere in the world I believe), Matthew Gibney (spoke to Ned Kelly just before he was shot at the Glenrowan siege). Those three men are all interesting and notable characters and would add depth to the article IMO. They've been on my to-do list for a while and I'd be happy if someone got them off it for me ;) 
* What is the fee structure and how does it compare with other Perth colleges? There's a suggestion for a useful new article: Perth private school fees. Thats an issue lots of people want to know. 
* What scholarships are on offer? 
* What capital works (ie. building projects) are planned or underway. Colleges always seem to have some big capex projects happening. 
* The opening paragraph(s) should be a brief summary of the article that says all the most important stuff about the school. How would you tell us about the school if you only had thirty seconds to speak? 
* History section is pretty thorough but could flow better. I have a bugbear about normal quotes being marked up was pullquotes. Parts of the history section belong in the location section (e.g. "much of the property is still thickly wooded"), and the affiliations section has nothing to do with history. 
* Location should characterise where it is and what the site is like. It does that pretty well. But the article is about Aquinas, not the peninsula, not the river. Summary style isn't necessary and doesn't work here.
* Finally, a few questions: What are its values - is it overtly religious? How much does it charge? Is it elite? elitist? How is it rated by the wider community? Is it considered one of the better private schools in WA? Is it thought of as a sporting school that also offers academic programs, or as an academic program that also had a strong sporting tradition?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Smbarnzy (talk • contribs) 11:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer Review 

message: The "red-back spider needs to be added into the sports section as it is the symbol of Aquinas College sport, possibly with a picture, i will add it to the list of pictures required. This should include when it was adopted, how, and what it represents. Smbarnzy 11:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion, the picture added is not of a high enough standard. There was already a red-back spider image on wikipedia of high quality. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Redback_frontal_view.jpg) --Ali K 02:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sport 

message: The houses system does not state which year it was introduced, and when each house was introduced. It could also include such things as other systems that the house system is based upon or other such things. Smbarnzy 12:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  House System 

message: Explanation of the awards, colours and honours system and how it works. What students have to do to get an award and that sort of information Smbarnzy 10:45, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: New sporting uniforms are being introduced, this should be added to the uniform section aswell as the reason why (cost), and the changeover period for the uniforms aswell as when the uniforms are being introduced. Smbarnzy 12:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uniform 

message: This needs to include student bodies (eg. student representative council) and other such related student bodies represented by the school Smbarnzy 10:47, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Student Life 

message: This section should include a paragraph on the OBE debate which is raging in Western Australia and something on THE WACE (West Australian Certificate of Education). Smbarnzy 12:24, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the images should be alternating and larger, it it way too boring, the article needs a bit more "oomf" symode09 09:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I definately agree Smbarnzy 09:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can I suggest you temporarily switch your screen resolution to 800x600 (there's still lots of people out there with 15 inch monitors) and view the article as they would see it.  A 400px wide image takes up half the 800 wide screen, and with the Wikipedia navigation bar on the left (approx 140px), there's not much room left for words to wrap around the image.  The article looks plain ugly. —Moondyne 01:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Academic Studies