Talk:Second Battle of Cape Finisterre

message: I think it's quite reasonable to challenge some of these assumptions of what makes an engagement 'Decisive', as  has been doing a lot. But this piecemeal approach to just the infobox result doesn't really help anyone. It still states in the text that it was a 'decisive victory'. Given that the sources are the best way to go to avoid OR, we should look at what they say. We would be equally guilty of OR if we assumed based on our own opinion that the result wasn't decisive when the sources say that it was.
The current source used, Black's Military History of Britain, makes a number of claims to justify the 'Decisive' tag. '...won the most brilliant action of the war...', 'Six of the French ships were forced to surrender and the French also lost 4,000 sailors, a crucial limitation of their maritime strength.' '"All difficulties that could be apprehended in Parliament will by this be removed, the pride of France a little humbled, and I hope our allies so far encouraged, that your Royal Highness will find them willing and able to exert themselves for our own safety and support". The Duke was also confident that victory would also disappoint Jacobite hopes of a possible invasion. The French fleet could no longer escort major convoys bound for French colonies, and this destroyed the logic of the French imperial system.' and 'Victory transformed the invasion threats of 1744-5 and the danger of the loss of Cape Breton in 1746 into a completely political, strategic and diplomatic situation.' It all reads as a pretty significant outcome, though it perhaps lacks the ideal pairing of 'decisive' and 'victory' for User:Moagim if summaries like 'nothing on the source stat such a thing' is anything to go by. 
Sources which do state that Finisterre was a "decisive victory":
*David Wallace, Premodern Places: Calais to Surinam, Chaucer to Aphra Behn, p. 30. "In October 1747, the English Channel fleet won a decisive victory against the French off Cape Finisterre."
*John Cannon, A Dictionary of British History, p. 314 "Off Cape Finisterre in October 1747 he won a decisive victory, taking seven out of nine enemy vessels."
*Paul Kennedy, The Rise and Fall of British Naval Mastery, p. 93 "In October Hawke achieved an even more decisive victory against a West Indian convoy..."
And many other sources which state the importance in the same vein as Black, in that essentially it lifted the threat of invasion and isolated France from its colonies, while ensuring British control of the seas. So if you want it explicitly stated, there it is. Benea (talk) 15:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I will add to that in a recent source placed on the page. Here is the link and the quote: The ensuing eight hour battle ends in a decisive British victory  ChrisWet (talk) 22:40, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

text: I can't see how this action differs from a hundred engagements fought on the same period. It didn't lead to anywhere, Great Britain didn't gain anything from it and all the war ended in a big stalemate.Moagim (talk) 00:22, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're using statements like 'I can't see...' it really becomes a problem of OR. It's not our interpretation, our analysis of the sources to come to a judgement on what battles have the significant outcomes, it's the third-party sources that we must rely on. Benea (talk) 01:05, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I forgot to mention that that was my just my opinion, I don't wanna fight against any source. Moagim (talk) 04:23, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is Wikipedia prefers to avoid designating battles as 'decisive' since it is often a matter of opinion. Even if that's what the sources say. Robinvp11 (talk) 17:27, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Decisive? 

message: B class. Nice work. Please note that the Willis 2009 citation does not point to any reference. Since the material was already cited by another reference, I removed the Willis ref. I looked up Sam Willis books on Amazon.com and did not see any published in 2009 or any with 761 pages. If you can find the correct Willis ref, feel free to add it back in. Djmaschek (talk) 05:42, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing ref