Talk:Albinism in popular culture

message: Resolved entries has been archived.--Kslotte (talk) 21:27, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Was restored with a source this time. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 01:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Such as...?  I was pretty sure that these had been eliminated. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 00:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that white hair, white skin and blue, pink or red eyes are enough real evidence unless refuted by something else (such as prancing around in the sunlight). So far, each of the questionable anime characters has been removed, most of them were removed due to skin or hair colour, and Folken, who was removed for other reasons, also could have been removed due to skin or hair color. I don't think there's any reason to include anime as a disqualifier. -- Gordon Ecker 02:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree. We've got this winnowed down, per WP:NOR, so that no one at all, last I looked, is appearing on the list unless a) a reliable source (including the original publication, the film in its credits, etc.; or a third-party source, such as an interview with author/directory) says they are portrayals of albinism; or b) a reliable source demonstrates that the character is perceived as such a portrayal, regardless of authorial/directorial intent (c.f. the "Matrix Reloaded" twins).  As for anime, a really good example would be the work of Camilla D'Errico, as well as many of the specific cases already dealt with on this page (some now archived).  D'Errico like many Japanese manga/anime articles uses red and pink eyes with wild abandon as a form of stylization, artistic license and probable symbolism; she also, like many of the others of the genre also uses white or near-white hair in a similar vein. Yet they don't consistently coincide. In her and others' works, there are plenty of cases of white-haired characters with dark eyes, and dark-haired characters with red eyes and so on.  Just like there are green-haired characters with purple eyes, and flying tentacle monsters and giant robot and so on.  Your "white hair, white skin and blue, pink or red eyes are enough real evidence unless refuted by something else" position is a complete reversal of the burden of proof established as a matter of WP:POLICY at WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV.  All that said, there should not be any implication that a manga/anime character cannot be added if there's reliable evidence supporting inclusion. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 07:12, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

text: It'd be nice if we had a source discussing it in this article's context... The fact that he's supposed to be something different from regular folk, in a race/humanity sense, seems to put him in the same blob of questionable cases as Ueber-Morlock, etc. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 12:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, he may be a separate "race" (or else just a highly advanced culture).. but the blind pygmy albinos are pretty clearly supposed to be humans. I'll look for an source referencing it. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Three links (film reviews) that refer to (alternately) the "god" and his servants as albinos.    There are many more (if you google for "10,000 bc albino"), but these seemed to be the most "reputable" sources, rather than forum comments or blog posts. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 19:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I just caught the tail end of it at the theater on my way out from another movie, and the "god"/"Atlantean"/whatever clearly has pigmented eyebrows in his final scene, so he doesn't qualify.  I didn't catch the dwarfs (came in too late).  Will look for them on DVD, or something, after reading the sources you've dug up. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 06:50, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Did he? Good catch. I don't think he'd be a good bet anyway, as not having a clean view makes his "albinism" speculative at best... especially with the eyebrows as you mention. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 19:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

text: That's odd... I was pretty sure it was already there.  It's not now. Probably another of the perpetual vandals.  One of them deleted the entire History section of the article and no one noticed until 15 minutes ago! — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 12:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

text: This is a valid entry in the "objects of ridicule" section.  Needs time code, for a  citation. It's also a great exmaple of ignorant nonsense about albinism (no such thing as "partial albinism" leading to one non-pigmented eye, and even if there were, someone with that condition would not have "20/20 vision in both eyes"). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 08:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Well, he is pretty clearly of generally Caucasian appearance in his "human" guise, although with the hat off he has a shock of white/pale-blond hair and his "cartoon eyes" under his fake eyes have red/pink irises. I think he's not intended to be albino, and the red eyes are a side-effect of rage ("seeing red") due to his toon nature. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 22:16, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that seems just as likely.  A "possibility 1.5" is that his Toon appearance is intended to just look like a typical white pet store bunny rabbit, and most of the white ones are albinos, but not necessarily everyone would know that. They'd just think "white rabbit, ergo pink eyes", the way people think "husky dog or Siamese cat, ergo blue eyes" without understanding the genetics behind the breeds.  Regardless, there's no source, so I'm tagging this one as orig. research.  I wonder if the DVD/Blu-ray version has commentary that could elucidate?  If so,  exists. :-)  — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 01:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Specific character entries in the lists

message: Removed:
* Satan (played by Rosalinda Celentano), in The Passion of the Christ (2004) is portrayed as an androgynous, albino-like figure.
This is not the List of androgynous albino-like figures in popular culture. The only questionable entries at all (e.g. the Matrix: Reloaded twins and the Taarna from Heavy Metal) are sourced with a WP-external theorist labelling them albino-like enough that the average viewer would not understand the difference; for a WP editor to assert this him/herself is original research. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Was restored with a source this time. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 01:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Satan in ''The Passion of the Christ''

message: There also also present too much anime characters with white hairs and blue/red eyes whitout any real evidence of albinism.
[The previous unsigned comment was posted by , 00:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Such as...?  I was pretty sure that these had been eliminated. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 00:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that white hair, white skin and blue, pink or red eyes are enough real evidence unless refuted by something else (such as prancing around in the sunlight). So far, each of the questionable anime characters has been removed, most of them were removed due to skin or hair colour, and Folken, who was removed for other reasons, also could have been removed due to skin or hair color. I don't think there's any reason to include anime as a disqualifier. -- Gordon Ecker 02:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree. We've got this winnowed down, per WP:NOR, so that no one at all, last I looked, is appearing on the list unless a) a reliable source (including the original publication, the film in its credits, etc.; or a third-party source, such as an interview with author/directory) says they are portrayals of albinism; or b) a reliable source demonstrates that the character is perceived as such a portrayal, regardless of authorial/directorial intent (c.f. the "Matrix Reloaded" twins).  As for anime, a really good example would be the work of Camilla D'Errico, as well as many of the specific cases already dealt with on this page (some now archived).  D'Errico like many Japanese manga/anime articles uses red and pink eyes with wild abandon as a form of stylization, artistic license and probable symbolism; she also, like many of the others of the genre also uses white or near-white hair in a similar vein. Yet they don't consistently coincide. In her and others' works, there are plenty of cases of white-haired characters with dark eyes, and dark-haired characters with red eyes and so on.  Just like there are green-haired characters with purple eyes, and flying tentacle monsters and giant robot and so on.  Your "white hair, white skin and blue, pink or red eyes are enough real evidence unless refuted by something else" position is a complete reversal of the burden of proof established as a matter of WP:POLICY at WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV.  All that said, there should not be any implication that a manga/anime character cannot be added if there's reliable evidence supporting inclusion. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 07:12, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Anime/Manga characters

message: Removed:
* Taarna, heroine of the final segment of the animated film Heavy Metal, may not necessarily be intended to portray a person with natural, genetic albinism, though the distinction would be lost on most viewers.
Rationale: Unsourced and speculative; this is better saved for a section (see other discussion on this page) about marginal cases such as the Ueber-Morlock. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 20:08, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Taarna in ''Heavy Metal''

message: The "Pyramid God" (purportedly either an Atlantean or extraterrestrial... almost certainly, in the context of the film, "really" an Atlantean) is very very pale skinned (we don't get a clear look at him) and seems to employ blind pygmy albinos as a servant class. This probably ought to be mentioned. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 17:17, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It'd be nice if we had a source discussing it in this article's context... The fact that he's supposed to be something different from regular folk, in a race/humanity sense, seems to put him in the same blob of questionable cases as Ueber-Morlock, etc. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 12:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, he may be a separate "race" (or else just a highly advanced culture).. but the blind pygmy albinos are pretty clearly supposed to be humans. I'll look for an source referencing it. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Three links (film reviews) that refer to (alternately) the "god" and his servants as albinos.    There are many more (if you google for "10,000 bc albino"), but these seemed to be the most "reputable" sources, rather than forum comments or blog posts. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 19:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I just caught the tail end of it at the theater on my way out from another movie, and the "god"/"Atlantean"/whatever clearly has pigmented eyebrows in his final scene, so he doesn't qualify.  I didn't catch the dwarfs (came in too late).  Will look for them on DVD, or something, after reading the sources you've dug up. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 06:50, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Did he? Good catch. I don't think he'd be a good bet anyway, as not having a clean view makes his "albinism" speculative at best... especially with the eyebrows as you mention. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 19:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pyramid god-king in ''10,000 B.C.'' 

message: Someone may wish to add to this page something about the 2003 Icelandic film "Noi the Albino" ("Nói albinói"). 71.243.16.13 (talk) 19:01, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's odd... I was pretty sure it was already there.  It's not now. Probably another of the perpetual vandals.  One of them deleted the entire History section of the article and no one noticed until 15 minutes ago! — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 12:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Noi the Albino 

message: Wayne's World 2.205.189.194.208 (talk) 21:35, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a valid entry in the "objects of ridicule" section.  Needs time code, for a  citation. It's also a great exmaple of ignorant nonsense about albinism (no such thing as "partial albinism" leading to one non-pigmented eye, and even if there were, someone with that condition would not have "20/20 vision in both eyes"). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 08:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: So-called partial ocular albino in ''Wayne's World 2''

message: Someone added Judge Doom. No source.  I haven't watched that in so long, I don't remember much about it. So, I don't know if this is a good-idea entry that will be easy to source, or more WP:NOR-violating nonsense. Anyone else want to chime in? — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 10:55, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, he is pretty clearly of generally Caucasian appearance in his "human" guise, although with the hat off he has a shock of white/pale-blond hair and his "cartoon eyes" under his fake eyes have red/pink irises. I think he's not intended to be albino, and the red eyes are a side-effect of rage ("seeing red") due to his toon nature. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 22:16, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that seems just as likely.  A "possibility 1.5" is that his Toon appearance is intended to just look like a typical white pet store bunny rabbit, and most of the white ones are albinos, but not necessarily everyone would know that. They'd just think "white rabbit, ergo pink eyes", the way people think "husky dog or Siamese cat, ergo blue eyes" without understanding the genetics behind the breeds.  Regardless, there's no source, so I'm tagging this one as orig. research.  I wonder if the DVD/Blu-ray version has commentary that could elucidate?  If so,  exists. :-)  — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 01:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Judge Doom of ''Who Framed Roger Rabbit''

message: The character Walter Geist in Sheridan Hay's novel The Secret of Lost Things (HB ,, PB ) is explicitly stated to be albinistic. That is all I know at this point. Someone will need to read the book to be able to place the character in the appropriate list. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 03:12, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Walter Geist from ''The Secret of Lost Things''

message: Bjørn Beltø is listed as a positive portrayal in the article, but in a student book review is has been described as "strange and neurotic", which could suggest a neutral or ambiguous treatment.  Judging from Amazon search results on "albino" in books, the character may make a re-appearance in Egeland's Relic (2010, ; original Norwegian version probably 2009, ISBN ???, Norwegian title ???). That is all I know at this point. Someone will need to read the books to be able to place the character in the appropriate list. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 08:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Bjørn Beltø by Egeland

message: I saw a comic with an obviously albinistic woman on the cover.  Scribbled the title and publisher down.  Found a few deets online. The character is Ingrid, with a companion named Erik, "outcasts in 9th century Norway"  She looked very pretty in the cover art of #32, but the interior art made her very homely.  She seemed to be a victim of some kind - very distraught throughout the story, which I didn't read, just skimmed for 30 sec., since I had somewhere else to be.  Some of the online material suggests she may be the heroine of the story (they "strike a series of blows for individuality against the rigid conformity of the local priesthood", and she's definitely one of the two main characters of this storyline; no idea how she figures in the series as a whole.  That said, a synopsis of the first issue in the sub-series has them "launch a crusade of violent retribution" against "corrupt Christian missionaries", so some might view this as an "ambiguous portrayal", depending upon what the actual plot is really like. The Northlanders article suggests that the "Metal" story was 3 issues (nos. 30-32); however, this site (with the cover image I mentioned) shows that the "Metal" story continued through issue #34. All are collected in a graphic novel version with related stories from the Northlanders franchise (specifically, the GN is issues 29-36 and is also named "Metal"). Ingrid also appears on the cover of issues 31 and 34. That's all I know about it at this point. Any comics fans want to investigate? PS: I have not found a source that actually says "she is an albino" or whatever.  The synopses are very, very short.  Just thought I'd brain dump this here before I forgot about it.  I actually had the title and publisher written on a dollar bill for lack of scratch paper, and almost spent it.  Heh.  Comics are so expensive these days, I'm not willing to shell out for all 5 issues or the GN; I'll leave it to a comics collector to pick this one up. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 04:57, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Ingrid in ''Northlanders'': "Metal" (Vertigo Comics)

message: Removed this:
* Several characters from Brandon Mull's "Fablehaven" series were temporarily albinistic, losing their pigmentation (along with most of their brain functioning) after encounters with a revenant. Their brain functioning was restored after the death of the revenant, and their albinism was cured soon after by a magical artifact.
There's no such thing as temporary albinism; it's a genetic trait.  Being turned magically pale isn't albinism. If a reliable source puts this case in the context of albinism stereotypes or something like that, this might be worth looking into as a borderline entry, in my view. But we've already excluded better candidates like the Ueber-Morlock from the Time Machine remake several years ago, and so on. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 03:28, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Revenant victims in "Fablehaven"

message: Removed this:
* Yin, the albino girl from the anime Darker than Black.
She's just a clone of a blonde Finnish girl. See her entry in the anime's main article. No source for her being albinistic. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 03:28, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Yin in ''Darker than Black''

message: Removed this:
* Bella Swan, from Twilight, was said to be half or part albino.
This is not supported by her article here or anything else I've found. And there's no such thing as "part albino" or "half albino" anyway; either you have the genetics or you don't. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 03:28, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Bella Swan from the "Twilight" franchise

message: Osamu Tezuka's classic Jungle Emperor (a.k.a. Kimba the White Lion; first anime broadcast in color, and the inspiration for Disney's The Lion King) features a white lion (thus the title, obviously), which would only occur in nature either because of albinism, in the general lion population, or due to the color inhibitor ("chinchilla") gene of so-called white lions (actually blonde), exclusively in the Timbavati region of South Africa.  More complicating yet is the problem, as discussed above, that manga/anime (and Tezuka is the "Father of Manga and Grandfather of Anime") is notorious for very pale characters as symbolic (as already discussed in the article) without them being intended to be interpreted as albinos. I don't know jack about this character or his apparent progeny (I've seen a manga cover featuring what is presumably Kimba and a lion cub, also white). Kimba and cub have blue irises, but Timbavati "white" lions have yellow eyes, like most other cats, and all non-albino lions. The characters also have dark ear- and tail-tips, suggesting genetics in common with Siamese and related cat breeds with point colors (but - the plot thickens - that is actually a form of albinism in felines!); yet this could simply be artistic license, or even a direct homage to Moby Dick, who had some pigmented parts. So, make of that what you will. The article on the manga/anime has no information, sourced or otherwise, on Kimba/Leo's coloration. I'll let someone else look into this one for sources about why the characters are pale. I don't even see anything anywhere that says they are intended to be real-world Timbavati lions. At any rate, the portrayal is a positive one, with aspects of victimhood, if anyone does find anything; Kimbas's father is killed by hunters for his hide, and himself and his mother taken to be zoo animals or something, but he returns to be the lion emperor and is even keen on finding common ground with humans, perhaps even at the cost of his own life. That's about all I know about the plot, too. ;-)  — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 03:16, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Leo/Kimba and related lions in ''Jungle Emperor''/''Kimba the White Lion''

message: Riffing on the "albinos invisible in snow" joke from a much earlier episode, a season 23 ep actually shows an albinistic guy and his albinio pet rabbit being invisible against snow except for bloodshot-looking pink eyes. I can't remember what episode it was though. — SMcCandlish    Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 03:03, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: ''The Simpsons'' again

message: As said in the article: 'Ghost is said to have been the runt of his litter, and thus this novel links albinism with other unrelated conditions'
Where is that said? There doesn't seem to be a citation, and from my own reading of the books, I can't recall anything that could be interpreted as that. Possibly the suggestion that the other pups drove him away (A Game of Thrones, p18) could be construed as his being the runt - though by the usual definition, a runt is smaller and weaker than the others, but Lady, not Ghost, was the smallest of the litter (A Game of Thrones, p152) and I'm not aware of any reference to Ghosts being physically weak, or disadvantaged in any way.
And it was never implied that his being rejected by his littermates was for any reason other than his albinism, so what link with unrelated conditions?
I've removed it for now, but did the entry ought to be moved to 'positively portrayed'? Unless of course anyone has a citation to support the line in question. CarrieVS (talk) 20:21, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Ghost from ''A Song of Ice and Fire''

message: Episode 6 of season 1 of Farscape, "Thank God It's Friday, Again", features a typical evil albino trope, this time in the character Volmae (played by Angie Milliken). She is pale, white-haired, and red-eyed, collaborating with aliens to enslave her people (who do not share her appearance, but are red-skinned), and to rip off the masters for her own gain. She is made to realize the error of her ways toward the end of the plot.   — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  10:13, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Volmae, in ''Farscape'' S01E06 

message: Please add topics about this section of the article as subtopics under this topic.
[This section was refactored in from :Talk:Albinism after the merge of the relevant section into the :Albinism in popular culture article.]
===List needed; King Yellowman; Piano Red===
Also, are/were there any famous albinos?  If so, could we have a list?  User:Palefire
:I added a bit about what I know... Yellowman is albino. Tuf-Kat 22:58, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)
::I forgot Piano Red was albino too. Tuf-Kat
===List deleted===
Why was the list of famous people with albinism removed? --buck 19:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I could find no reason why this section was deleted on 28 Oct 06, so I've restored it. --buck 04:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Added the band itself to the list under ambiguous/neutral, since they do exist and are a pop culture item. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 12:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quick Googling suggests that "Ice" is a non-albinistic African-American uh "actress". — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm...on further research, this entry actually appears to be legit and not a nonsense edit (though a badly formed one, and misfiled in "commonly mistaken".) A different, albinistic, "Ice" (a.k.a. "Icy") has done at least three four "adult" movies: Homegrown Video 663 (2003), Handjobs Across America 12 (2005), and Eye Contact 35 (2006).  Warning: If you go looking for source material on this, you will run into naughty pictures.  Anyway, I'm not sure this qualifies as "notable" or "famous", but "Ice" appears to be the only albinistic porn "star" in the world.  I've never bothered to find out how porn star articles are sourced on WP.  I know WP:CENSOR, but still, I'm not sure it would be appropriate to link to smut retailers as sources.  Are there notability guidelines for porn stars?  I guess if these series of videos have reached numbers like 35 and 663 volumes they might be "notable".  <fzzt>  This isn't exactly my field... — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Any one else have an opinion on this?  I don't want to leave her out just because she's a porn star rather than, say, a singer, but I don't really know what the "notability" criteria might be for pornographic performers. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 18:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Being the only albinistic pornographic actress would seem to be notable, but only if she truly is the only one, right? So if we have a reliable source stating such, she should go on the list, otherwise it's OR to declare her as the only abinistic porn star... unless someone claims to know EVERY person who's ever made pornography. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 22:18, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, and she's not, at least if one considers home-made stuff (a few minutes on Google turned up an albinistic male doing an erotic webcam show).  That said, Ice is still notable enough for this list (though maybe not for her own article - there's a whole guideline about pornstar notability, I think), since she has now four readily-available DVDs, from multiple production companies. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 01:42, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Ice is not currently on the list... and I can't seem to find where/when/why she was removed. Any ideas? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:18, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Some anon deleted half the list some while ago. I've been restoring. I'll put her back on. I guess her videos are essentially sources, so I'm not sure anything further is needed to just mention her here (for her own article, it would be, since notability wouldn't be established otherwise per WP:N, of course). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 06:51, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

text: No confirming Google hits so far.  There's an author/historian by this name, but isn't albinistic, judging from his photos. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: [This topic from moved here from Talk:Albinism because the section it referred to was merged into this article.]
It strikes me as important that the existing entries in the "famous" list should get sourced as soon as possible.  To the extent I have time to work on the albinism articles in large blocks of time, I want to focus on sourcing the medical facts (esp. since effectively no one else is, aside from User:Allyddin Sane occasionally, and the article will lose it's Wikipedia Release Version "A-Class" status eventually if this isn't rectified.)  But some folks less interested in the medical jargon could help out a lot by just doing some basic research on the people in the list to source each with at least one reasonably reliable source (People magazine, probably OK; National Enquirer, not.)  Might even be fun! — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I will see when I can get more active again, but it might take until July for a reasonable calming of my schedule. Is there any deadline for that status or anything similar? Allyddin Sane 00:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I know of for certain; I do see articles get downgraded all the time though.  I think it's just when an assessor happens to bother to stop in and reassess, or when someone objects to the assessment. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 00:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Bleach. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]   ‹(-¿-)› 19:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: You can't "contract" albinism, as the article clearly explains; if you weren't born albinistic you never will be. Jackson's lightening skin tone is was due to bleaching treatments and makeup, as is well documented at his article.  Please read the articles before asking questions about them. :-) — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 16:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the help19:54, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Restored with source. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 06:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Later removed as a redlink. May not be notable (just being the son of someone famous doesn't confer notability). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs.    12:16, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Update: Krondon's not a redlink any longer; adding him back into article. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs.    08:09, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Update: Bowman and Nahadr have articles now. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 08:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Why would we care about some woman appearing randomly in a music video?  Utterly non-notable. And it's not an albinistic woman, just some goth chick with black contacts and bleached hair.  Please actually read :Albinism. :-/ — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 10:55, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Update: I believe that the albinistic male model-actor in Katy Perry's new music video "E.T." is Thompson. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 06:09, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Albinism in popular culture#Famous people with albinism|Famous people with albinism]] list

message: Why was the list of famous people with albinism removed? --buck 19:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I could find no reason why this section was deleted on 28 Oct 06, so I've restored it. --buck 04:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: List deleted

message: Deleted entry in list.  No evidence of albinism, including on his own bio, or in the article about him.  He is a stawberry-blond with well-pigmented skin.  He just happens to be in a band called Albinokid. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 10:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Added the band itself to the list under ambiguous/neutral, since they do exist and are a pop culture item. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 12:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Anthony Rapp?

message: * Removed "Ice - porn star" from the "commonly mistaken" section. Not sure if it was meant to be added there or to the main list.  Sounds bogus anyway, and no sources.  — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 22:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quick Googling suggests that "Ice" is a non-albinistic African-American uh "actress". — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm...on further research, this entry actually appears to be legit and not a nonsense edit (though a badly formed one, and misfiled in "commonly mistaken".) A different, albinistic, "Ice" (a.k.a. "Icy") has done at least three four "adult" movies: Homegrown Video 663 (2003), Handjobs Across America 12 (2005), and Eye Contact 35 (2006).  Warning: If you go looking for source material on this, you will run into naughty pictures.  Anyway, I'm not sure this qualifies as "notable" or "famous", but "Ice" appears to be the only albinistic porn "star" in the world.  I've never bothered to find out how porn star articles are sourced on WP.  I know WP:CENSOR, but still, I'm not sure it would be appropriate to link to smut retailers as sources.  Are there notability guidelines for porn stars?  I guess if these series of videos have reached numbers like 35 and 663 volumes they might be "notable".  <fzzt>  This isn't exactly my field... — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Any one else have an opinion on this?  I don't want to leave her out just because she's a porn star rather than, say, a singer, but I don't really know what the "notability" criteria might be for pornographic performers. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 18:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Being the only albinistic pornographic actress would seem to be notable, but only if she truly is the only one, right? So if we have a reliable source stating such, she should go on the list, otherwise it's OR to declare her as the only abinistic porn star... unless someone claims to know EVERY person who's ever made pornography. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 22:18, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, and she's not, at least if one considers home-made stuff (a few minutes on Google turned up an albinistic male doing an erotic webcam show).  That said, Ice is still notable enough for this list (though maybe not for her own article - there's a whole guideline about pornstar notability, I think), since she has now four readily-available DVDs, from multiple production companies. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 01:42, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Ice is not currently on the list... and I can't seem to find where/when/why she was removed. Any ideas? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:18, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Some anon deleted half the list some while ago. I've been restoring. I'll put her back on. I guess her videos are essentially sources, so I'm not sure anything further is needed to just mention her here (for her own article, it would be, since notability wouldn't be established otherwise per WP:N, of course). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 06:51, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Ice"

message: There is an African-American, gay porn star named Casper, obviously after the cartoon ghost. http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=casper_bl/gender=m/casper.htm  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chumley41 (talk • contribs) 01:32, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: A Porn Star?

message: * Removed "William Howard Adams, American - incredible human being", per WP:N and WP:NPOV.  If someone knows who this is and finds him notable, some sources would be good, or go write an article on him? — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 22:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No confirming Google hits so far.  There's an author/historian by this name, but isn't albinistic, judging from his photos. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Presumably non-notables

message: :[This topic from moved here from Talk:Albinism because the section it referred to was merged into this article.]
It strikes me as important that the existing entries in the "famous" list should get sourced as soon as possible.  To the extent I have time to work on the albinism articles in large blocks of time, I want to focus on sourcing the medical facts (esp. since effectively no one else is, aside from User:Allyddin Sane occasionally, and the article will lose it's Wikipedia Release Version "A-Class" status eventually if this isn't rectified.)  But some folks less interested in the medical jargon could help out a lot by just doing some basic research on the people in the list to source each with at least one reasonably reliable source (People magazine, probably OK; National Enquirer, not.)  Might even be fun! — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will see when I can get more active again, but it might take until July for a reasonable calming of my schedule. Is there any deadline for that status or anything similar? Allyddin Sane 00:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I know of for certain; I do see articles get downgraded all the time though.  I think it's just when an assessor happens to bother to stop in and reassess, or when someone objects to the assessment. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 00:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsourced entries

message: I have a doubt about if D'arcy Wretzky from the Smashing Pumpkins is albino, because I have seen her many times with some characteristics, like the white hair, that makes me wonder about it.
Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.134.69.125 (talk) 16:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bleach. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]   ‹(-¿-)› 19:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[D'arcy Wretzky]] (Smashing Pumpkins) 

message: I tried asking this at the Albinism page but someone said they wouldn't answer it and I should ask it here: Does Michael Jackson have the Albino disease  or something? Why is he white? Thanks 14:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't "contract" albinism, as the article clearly explains; if you weren't born albinistic you never will be. Jackson's lightening skin tone is was due to bleaching treatments and makeup, as is well documented at his article.  Please read the articles before asking questions about them. :-) — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 16:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the help19:54, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michael Jackson 

message: This entry was removed as unsourced:
*Li Yipeng, Lee Hsien Loong's son 
No information available so far.
: Restored with source. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 06:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Later removed as a redlink. May not be notable (just being the son of someone famous doesn't confer notability). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs.    12:16, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Li Yipeng

message: All of the following were removed on the basis that they are redlinks. I don't entirely agree with that - redlinks encourage article creation, and many pages have redlinks on them without people feeling the need to delete them - but I don't want to fight about it.  I'll preserve the list here, with sources, and it should be checked periodically to see if any of them have turned into bluelinks. I think that several of them eventually will, including Fox, Nahadr, Krondon,  Sánchez, and Radhakrishnan in particular, since cursory Google searches on them turn up all kinds of stuff.
*Tony Evans, American newspaper columnist
*Brooke Fox, American singer-songwriter
*Krondon, rapper and hip-hop musician and producer
*Li Yipeng, Lee Hsien Loong's son
*Mem Nahadr (a.k.a. "M"), American performance artist, composer and jazz vocalist
*TK Radhakrishnan, Carnatic flutist"G. Harishankar — Khanjira Maestro Without Equal", by Manna Srinivasan, Sruti magazine #210 (online edition); March, 2002; Chennai, India — Harishankar obituary article
*Nestor Sánchez, Cuban singer
*Ali Şengöz, Turkish radio DJ
Evans, Li and Şengöz seem less likely to generate articles.  Turkish WP has no article on Şengöz, and (almost surprisingly) the Spanish WP has no article on Sánchez despite Google evidence indicating that he's pretty popular in Cuba and Puerto Rico.  Nahadr had an article already, but it was a copyvio (copy-paste of a bio from another website) and got speedied. Brooke Fox is particularly likely to generate an article, as she is increasingly well-known and has performed on various major shows (Conan O'Brien, etc.).  Redford White does have an article at one of the Philippine Wikipedias, so I've restored him to the list as notable and redlinked. Since being delted from this list, Malford Milligan has had an article written about him, so I've restored him to the list. Great example of why not to delete redlinks just because they are redlinks. I've also restored Bowman and Hurley, since the former was a major-character actor in a notable film with an article, and Hurley has acted in and produced films that have articles, so neither will stay redlinked forever. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 20:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: Krondon's not a redlink any longer; adding him back into article. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs.    08:09, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Update: Bowman and Nahadr have articles now. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 08:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undid some but not all removals from famous people section 

message: The woman 18 seconds in, in Bif Naked's ["Lucky" music video, and also about 2 minutes into it.
:Why would we care about some woman appearing randomly in a music video?  Utterly non-notable. And it's not an albinistic woman, just some goth chick with black contacts and bleached hair.  Please actually read :Albinism. :-/ — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 10:55, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Woman in music video by Biff Naked

message: Diandra Forrest and Stephen Thompson (model) badly need an article each.  She's being called "the first albino supermodel" (in more than one source) and had a TV feature about her, and he's gotten a lot of coverage already, as well a prominent cover and a major ad campaign.  Google turns up all kinds of stuff on both. She is already much better known and with more and broader exposure than Connie Chiu (who may well be retired at this point - haven't see anything new from her in years).  Forrest is with a major modeling agency, appears in numerous major-publication photo-editorials and ad campaigns, and has been profiled in magazines and TV shows, as well been in a Kanye West music video. Thompson is not yet as well-known as the other male albinistic model, Shaun Ross, and I can't yet find what his agency is (used to be UglyNY, but they're defunct) nor where he is from (US? Scotland? I dunno). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 06:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: I believe that the albinistic male model-actor in Katy Perry's new music video "E.T." is Thompson. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 06:09, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Two more models

message: He is probably notable, but I know this guy personally, so adding him would be a WP:COI problem for me, and maybe even selecting sources would be, so I'll leave it to someone else. Here's the entry as it once was, and subsequently removed for now:
*Danish Ahmed, a Pakistani-Canadian writer and speaker (author of A Dictionary of Distinctions, )
— SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 05:03, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Danish Ahmed

message: The list of famous persons with albinism in this article on 'albinism in popular culture' contains entries about politicians with albinism, militant leaders and ancient warriors. I doubt their position can count as popular culture. Shouldn't their entries be moved to a similar list in the article Albinism in humans? Chip Ahoi (talk) 09:33, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Do politicians count as popular culture?

message: According to the current version of the article:
:"These lists do not include fantastic characters whose appearances are similar to albinos, but for reasons other than actual albinism (aliens, the undead, magical beings, the genetically altered, etc.) Exceptions are characters who are broadly perceived as members of the "evil albino" category due to the distinction being lost on audiences, where this confusion can be reliably sourced."
Why shouldn't neutrally and positively portrayed non-albinistic characters such as Daniel Hall have the same criteria for inclusion as negatively portrayed non-albinistic characters such as Killface? -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:43, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there any objections to expanding this rule to cover all characters commonly perceived as albinistic? -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. There have been numerous objections to this, all throughout not only this page's existence but every version of it heretofore; this talk page largely consists of nothing but such objections.  Doing so is [[WP:NOR|blatant original research]; this is Albinism in popular culture, not Non-albinos broadly interpreted (according to someone's unsourced personal opinion) as members of the "evil albino" category in popular culture.  We've even removed some characters that can be marginally sourced as perhaps falling into this category, on the basis of undue weight and questionable source reliability. There is no double standard here. There is no Killface in the list, and if someone added that pale extraterrestrial to the list, I or someone else would immediately remove that entry as original research.  There is no dispute here. Another way of looking at it: See WP:WIAFL/WP:WIAFA and consider the criteria there. This should be a Featured List (or Featured Article, if its non-listy material grows significantly) at some point, but it will never be one, or even a Good Article, if it contains questionable entries. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 21:04, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In the first post, I wasn't suggesting the addition af Daniel Hall or Killface, I was suggesting that their inclusion or exclusion should be based on the same set of rules. By "expanding this rule" I meant replacing "Exceptions are characters who are broadly perceived as members of the "evil albino" category due to the distinction being lost on audiences, where this confusion can be reliably sourced." with "Exceptions are characters who are broadly perceived as albinistic due to the distinction being lost on audiences, where this confusion can be reliably sourced.". Most of the objections seem to be based on inadequate sourcing, original research or failure to meet the current criteria, you seem to be the only one who objects to fixing the double standard in the evil albino merge artifact by expanding the criteria, and that objection seems to be based on a misinterpretation of my suggestion. Anyway, the double standard could also be fixed by removing the "Exceptions are characters who are broadly perceived as members of the "evil albino" category due to the distinction being lost on audiences, where this confusion can be reliably sourced." line. I prefer the former option, but would also okay with the latter option. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 22:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So ... are there any objections to fixing the double standard could also be fixed by removing the "Exceptions are characters who are broadly perceived as members of the "evil albino" category due to the distinction being lost on audiences, where this confusion can be reliably sourced." line and cutting out all the villainous and / or negatively portrayed non-albinistic characters who were included due to that line? -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 02:09, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Needs further discussion, I think.  No one has supported the idea.  I see where you are coming from, but a) we have an arguably reliable source that not-quite-true-albinos or maybe-albinos are in fact an aspect of the "evil albino" phenomenon, meanwhile b) we have no such source suggesting that, say, white-haired anime characters are part of any counter-meme, rather than just being coincidentally white-haired because anime artists like to make characters look unusual. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 20:17, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Double standards 

message: I was wondering if you know who the author of the book Simple Man that is referred to in the Wikipedia is? I wanted to try and find the book it sounds interesting. Violet yoshi (talk) 03:39, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ruadhan J. McElroy, added to article. You can use Google to find simple bits of information like this. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 20:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simple Man 

message: This song (also covered by the Jimmy Wilson Group) is all over YouTube and I guess is a big number for Ween, who I've honestly not listened to at all since around 1994.  Anyway, it's a cultural reference, like the Nirvana song we're already listing.  I don't know jack about this song or the band, so someone else with a clue about them should probably add this to the right place in the article. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 08:52, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I just saw an album by another band kinda like this (I forget the details, but can find it again).  Along with Albino Kid and these other things, this strongly suggests a "References in pop culture" section, as I've seen in various other articles. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 08:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ween's "Albino Sunburned Girl" 

message: I notice that the article lists the film as "incorrectly" describing the graboid as sterile as a result of albinism... I think we can all agree that it's difficult to be "incorrect" about the cause/effect relationship of genetic or other disorders/anomalies in a fictional species with no known biological kinship to any known animal. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Needs rephrasing. The issue is that, like many other cited examples, the creators of the character link albinism with other genetic problems, when there is no such link (generally; there are in fact some odd-ball genetic conditions that result in both albinism and some other problems - the main Albinism article lists a number of them the infobox by their OMIM codes - but in these cases it is correlation, not causation, in that both albinism and whatever else are both associated with the condition in question, but the albinism is not causing the other problem(s). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 06:37, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. It's been QUITE some time since I've seen the Tremors films... I assume the film explicitly makes the albinism causative of the sterility? If so, maybe a note that in all known albinistic creatures, no form of albinism results in sterility while some in some rare cases both albinism and sterility might result from a larger "parent" disorder? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 17:47, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''El Blanco'' albino graboid 

message: On this and other related articles, the word albinistic appears to have be old standard for referring to animals and humans with albinism. I object to this, as the word is at best non-standard outside of it's use in Wikipedia articles, and carries connotations of an epithet. I would personally like to we of replaced with more standard vocabulary.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.192.151.28 (talk) 12:43, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the word "albinistic".  

message: On this and other related articles, the word albinistic appears to have become standard for referring to animals and humans with albinism. I object to this, as the word is at best non-standard outside of it's use in Wikipedia articles, and carries connotations of an epithet. I would personally like to we of replaced with more standard vocabulary.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.192.151.28 (talk) 12:44, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the word "albinistic".  

message: "normal-looking"
Really? Are we going to call some skin colours normal? So what is normal, what shade of pink, black, brown, yellow or red do we consider normal?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spazturtle (talk • contribs) 15:51, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think normal means anything on the, well, normal scale of human skin colours, as opposed to a skin colour caused by a medical condition. You have a point, though. If you think it's poorly expressed, you could try and improve it. Be bold. CarrieVS (talk) 12:10, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

text: If anyone wants to see the context, it's in this section. CarrieVS (talk) 12:15, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "normal-looking" 

message: The character 'Craig' in the 2013 movie 'The Heat' is subject to mockery throughout the film because he is portrayed as an albino. Please can someone with the know how add it to the list? Many thanks.Spikymoss (talk) 09:10, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Heat 

message: Probably the most obvious thing in years to cover here .  I will actually watch it in its entirety before adding a summary of it, since the entire thing may be a tongue-in-cheek commentary on the evil albino stereotype, rather than a wallowing in it.  But if anyone else has seen it, feel free to beat me to it.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  12:51, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Albino Farm'' (2009) 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: So we have the dire wolf Ghost mentioned, but how about Daenerys Targaryen and the entire Targaryen family. Who would marry brother to sister to keep the 'dragon blood' pure. Dany should come under the section of positively portrayed characters, with a mention of the rest of her family. Maybe it should also be mentioned that they are not portrayed with Albinism in the HBO TV show.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 25willp (talk • contribs) 04:53, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dany, & the Targs. ASOIAF 

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thread_title:  External links modified