Talk:Taylor knock-out factor

message: The external link to N4LCD violates "Wikipedia:Identifying blatant advertising" because it has explicit references to URLs that sell courses purporting to teach stockmarket day trading skills.  Specifically: "The active trader's E-Mini Futures Daytrading Course: www.daytradingcourse.com" and "The Active Investor's Stock Trading Course: www.eTradingCourse.com" both of with sell access to websites selling a course by Paul Quillen teaching day trading skills.  This violates the blatant advertising rule, "It clearly and unambiguously attempts to sell or promote a featured, new, flagship, or specific item or service offered by the company"  and "It provides an external link to the company's online store, the product's feature or order customization page, company sales contact page or their list of authorized retailers and sellers."
This link and references to it should be removed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.238.3.45 (talk) 21:45, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: no & once again: Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point --Ｔｏｍ (talk) 22:33, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  You only like the rules when they cut in your direction. Leaving it up demonstrates it. Don't bother quoting rules if you won't live by them.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.238.3.45 (talk) 22:45, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: And you have already been told: "IP User, I want a lot of things, but life doesn't work that way." --Ｔｏｍ (talk) 22:58, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: IP User, you should read WP:IBA carefully, this page contains no direct links to any advertising. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 21:17, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you I did.  It contains these links: www.daytradingcourse.com  and www.eTradingCourse.com which sell admission to instruction courses on day trading (for thousands of dollars).  Click on them and try it out.  The page cited in the article contains these links and promotes them with specific language.  I suggest you read the rule and the page carefully.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.238.3.45 (talk) 21:39, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The page Taylor KO Factor contains no direct links to any advertising. By your interpretation of WP:IBA, all links to news and magazine articles used as references (which have advertising) would be contrary to policy. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 22:21, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Link "http://www.n4lcd.com/calc/ violates wikipedia advertising rules and should be removed. 

message: To anyone reading this conversation, I state the following for the record.  
This article presents a formula created by the late John Taylor concerning the effectiveness of rifle cartridges for hunting elephant.  Specifically, it establishes a metric, Knock Out Time that is the amount of time an elephant is rendered unconscious but not dead by a single rifle shot that hits the elephant's head but does not kill it.  The formula known in the article as the “Taylor Knock Out Factor” (TKOF) uses bullet weight in grains, incorrectly labelled bullet mass, its muzzle velocity in feet per second, and the diameter of the bullet in inches to calculate a comparison statistic for predicting the knock out time given a nonlethal shot as just mentioned.
The article discusses 4 cartridges that were common in the time of Taylor.  These are: .416 Rigby, .470 Nitro Express, .577 Nitro Express, and .600 Nitro Express.  The article presents a table that provides the calculated values of the TKOF for these and other cartridges.  Respectively these are:  57.1, 72.9, 128.3, and 147.5.  The reader should note that Taylor does not provide any unit or units for the results of his formula.
The article quotes Taylor, from Taylor’s own book, as follows “The .416 Rigby will probably not knock the elephant out, but momentarily stun the animal which will recover quickly if not dispatched immediately, while the same shot delivered by the .470 Nitro Express will render the elephant unconscious for up to five minutes. Further, Taylor writes that the .577 Nitro Express will knock an elephant unconscious for around 20 minutes, the .600 Nitro Express around half an hour.”
This plainly gives the actual knockout times for the mentioned cartridges.  The reader should note, this is Taylor’s own observed data, from Taylor’s own book, the same man who invented the TKOF formula and states it in his book.
If we state Taylor's data numerically, the .416 Rigby gives 0 seconds of knock out time, the .470 Nitro Express approximately 300 seconds, the .577 Nitro Express approximately 1200 seconds, and the .600 Nitro Express approximately 1800 seconds.
No method for correlation for the TKOF prediction and Knock Out Time observed data is given in the article.
To be specific here, for the .416 Rigby the TKOF prediction is 57.1 but the observed Knock Out Time is 0, for the .470 Nitro Express the TKOF prediction is 72.9 but the observed value is approximately 300, for the .577 Nitro Express the TKOF prediction is 128.3 but the observed value is approximately 1200, and for the .600 Nitro Express the TKOF prediction is 147.5 but the observed value is approximately 1800.
The reader will notice these values do not agree and there is no correlation.  In fact, the TKOF table also shows other cartridges which have TKOF values smaller than for the .416 Rigby, which has an observed Knock Out Time of 0.  No explanation is given of how a knock out time less than 0, implied by these cartridges smaller TKOF value, should be interpreted.
Its perhaps redundant, but I wish to reiterate that the formula, its calculated values, and the observed results are all provided by the same man in the same book.  In that book Taylor does not explain this disagreement nor do the authors of the article.
I propose to add a single sentence to the article stating that Taylor does not explain in his book why his predictions and observed data do not agree.  This statement will satisfy the curiosity of an alert reader wishing to understand how to actually use the formula.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.238.3.45 (talk) 23:51, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  For the record:  Proposed addition of a claifying sentence about the disagrement of Taylor's formula predictions and actual observations. 

message: 4.25mm Liliput is an anemic mousegun cartridge that gets 0.23 TKOF units. As well it should. Nobody should use something like that against dangerous game even if that's an angry raccoon.
A Nerf MEGA is NOT a cartridge of any kind. It's a 19mm, 39 grain projectile though, and as such, gets superior "knock out factor" to the mousegun. About 0.35 unmodified, and that could easily be tripled or quadrupled with modifications.
A golfball, meanwhile, is also not a cartridge. I don't doubt a golfball could do some damage, but does it have the "knock out factor" of a .338 Winchester? Apparently, the answer is yes. It has about 30 TKOF.
A fast baseball pitch meanwhile has a TKOF of 130, comparable to .577 Nitro Express.
And finally, a Bowling ball thrown by a pro bowler has a TKOF of 4500, which is about double that of a 30mm cannon.
I don't know what to do with this information, but it makes me think the value of this measurement is extremely suspect. 50.38.32.222 (talk) 13:06, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The metric can't tell if a projectile is actually dangerous