Talk:Berber calendar

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thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Time/Assessment|WikiProject Time assessment rating]] comment 

message: There is something wrong with the illustration.
I don't read Arabic, but I think the three columns are showing the calendars in the order Muslim / Gregorian / Berber
The Gregorian columns appears to have January starting after 30 December, not 31 December.  The first Gregorian day on the RHS (= 1 Yennayer) is the 13th not the 14th, and it repeats the last Gregorian date on the LHS, also the 13th.
Que passa?  --69.241.124.150 17:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also don't read Arabic, but I think I understand this.  We must remember that Arabic reads right-to-left, and columns of numbers etc are also given in this direction, as that's simply what the eye is accustomed to in these cultures.  So the rightmost column starts the days of January, and the second-to-rightmost column are the days of Ramadan.  This is continued in the two columns on the left, where the circled date is Eid ul-Fitr, the feast day that marks the end of Ramadan.  Do you see?--Pharos 20:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point!  Yes, that works, it also gives me 26 Ramadan = 14 January per the top -- but then where is 1 Yennayar on this calendar????  --69.241.124.150 20:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Never mind, it's the red "1" at the bottom -- Chris  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.241.124.150 (talk) 20:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  poo 

message: Let's agree to keep to one topic discussed per talk section heading (as I've tried to do below), OK?  These giant sections with multiple inter-threaded conversations are just confusing things.  Thanks.--Pharos (talk) 19:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Please, let's keep it simple on this talk page

message: This is a (finally!) good source on the subject.--Pharos (talk) 00:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a good source on "d’explication de l’introduction du calendrier julien en Afrique du Nord et non de l’origine du calendrier berbère" (The author). You can then use it as background for your contributions. But that would be just a section. I won't agree with presenting it as "the Berber calendar". Men can write an article on the Berber calendar withouth refering to the names of the months, if needed. So, you'are right that would be a good article on the "origin of the Julian Berber calendar". Read3r (talk) 10:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the Julian Berber calendar 

message: I have used the "altvista" to translate the featured article in the Italian wikipedia. It was badly translated that i could keep reading, but i believe it is an interesting with serious inpunt. They approached the article from a general perspect (Guanche, Touareg, Berber antiquitiy, festivals, islam..). That what i liked to have been writen in this article. Read3r (talk) 11:25, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The Italian wiki-article

message: Hello all there. I've studied the subject of the Berber calendar quite a few years and from my own experience (okay, I know this is original research, but on the talkpage it might be allowed...) I can tell the following:
- A big percentage of the traditional Berber population in Morocco, with no connection to modern cultural activists or the Académie Berbère, uses a specific calendar in daily life.
- This calendar is so common that it appears alongside the Gregorian (=modern, also called 'French') calendar and the Islamic (lunar) calendar on every calendar sold at the corner shops or present in a normal Moroccan household. It is called the 'Fellahi' (Peasants) calendar.
- It is not only used for agricultural purposes but mostly for the Moussems, i.e. the annual celebrations at the tombs of holy men, which have a fixed date. 
- This calendar is exactly the Julian calendar, as it is used in the Orthodox Church and was used in Russia until 1917. There is no difference at all.
- This calendar has no era associated, years are not counted. When a Moroccan Berber counts years, he uses the Hijra era or the Christian era. Both are well known in Morocco. The so-calles 'Sheshonq era' may be based on a local legend about a victory over a pharaoh, but is definitely a recently introduced aspect, Berber tales can be very old, but do not give exact years for the kings whose battles they recall. The date for the Pharaoh Sheshonq is a modern date consistent with European chronography, not a traditional one.
- The calendar is probably in use since Roman colonization because the pronunciation of the months (yennayer, febrair, mars, nunius (or yuniu) yulius, ghusht, shutambir, ktober, nuwambir, dujambir) does not suggest an introduction by Spain or Portugal. Spain had very few influence or none in the Atlas mountains where this calendar is well conserved in daily use, Portugal in the 16th century had quite a big influence, specially on the Atlantic coast, and its influence cannot be ruled out at once, but the use of this calendar in Algeria, where no Portuguese colonization took place, speaks against this theory.
- The same names (or only slightly different) are used in Arabic manuscripts from several centuries and are considered standard Arabic. This also speaks against an introduction by Portuguese sailors in the 16th century.
- Since 1900 and until 2100, the difference between this (Julian) calendar and the Gregorian one is 13 days. Thus, 'Yennayer' (January 1st) of the Berber calendar falls during this century on January 14th. This is due to the leap year rule: the Julian calendar has a leap year every four years, the Gregorian one drops the leap day once each century, except 1600, 2000, 2400....
- 1 Yennayer (New Year) is celebrated in Morocco always at January 14. Many Algerian Berbers recall a celebration on January 13th which is easy to explain: they dropped the calendar itself after the French colonisation (1830) but kept the feast on the day which was then the correct. 
- The date of January 12th might have another explanation, which shows up when reading the entry in French Wikipedia about 'Yennayer': the celebration takes place in the evening, as a dinner. Now, the day in the whole islamic and hebrew world starts at sunset. A celebration at the evening of January 12th points to a New Year Day at January 13th, just as the big celebration of the European New Year starts at the evening of December 31st.
--Ilyacadiz (talk) 00:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Input about the Berber Calendar

message: hello
Can anyone tell me why the list of months in the Berber calendar starts here with December? It may be true (although I doubt there is any clear evidence on that) that December is considered the first of the three winter months, but as everybody knows, the year of the Berber calendar starts with January 1st (yennayer), which is widely acknowledged in the whole article. So why not start the list of the months with January? Would make much more sense. I don't recall the seasons as a hard fact associated to the calendar itself. If anybody comes up with a good reason to keep the list as it is, okay, otherwise I'll change it in a few weeks time. Greetings --Ilyacadiz (talk) 19:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I changed the structure by myself and added the Moroccan names as found in traditional printed calendars which always include the "fellahi" year. I a few weeks time I'll be able to give a more detailed source for the printed calendar (adress of the publishing house), so it won't be original research... I made the assumption that the names given in the first place are Algerian, because they differ from the Moroccan, but this is just an assumption, can anybody clarify that and add a source from which these names are taken? That would be great. --Ilyacadiz (talk) 13:47, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: January, first month in the list

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I propose that the following (the Berber seasons) be merged into Berber calendar. 
*El Azara
*Hssoum
*Jamrat El Ma
*Jamrat El Trab
*Layali Essoud
I think the content of those articles is miniscule, so a merge will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. PepperBeast (talk) 21:27, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal