Talk:Struma disaster

message: I believe the article on the ship should be moved to Struma (ship) and Struma should be a disambiguation page. A Google search shows that the ship is indeed what's most referenced in English, but after all, it's named after the river. I'm not that confident, however, and I'd like to hear other opinions before actually undertaking anything.  → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 17:32, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wrote most of this page.  I don't object to your proposal.  --Zerotalk 00:22, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved as per WP:NCS to SS Struma. JonEastham (talk) 08:55, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 05:03, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: Frantz and Collins have called it the "largest naval civilian disaster of the war"[2][cite this quote] although greater numbers of civilians perished alongside military personnel on larger ships like the Wilhelm Gustloff, Cap Arcona, RMS Lancastria and Junyō Maru.
This seems a strange thing to put on the lead. If it was widely seen as the greatest civilian disaster, I would understand us noting a notable epitaph. But is it widely seen as such? 
Is what two authors call this notable?
Are those two author correct?
Currently we seem to be saying "two writers say this, but they may be wrong". Seems to be better to omit the whole thing as questionable, and not notable, or at least relegate to a footnote. The lead is for summarising the article, not giving a opinion of a couple of authors.--Scott Mac 00:55, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the wording was odd, and restored the version which had been there until today. It now simply says that "it has been called ....", with the book as reference. Crum375 (talk) 01:52, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been discused above. The statement obviously cannot stand without some explanation. Sparafucil (talk) 05:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

text: I've moved the issue of whether C&F said what they presumably meant to a footnote; they speak in passing in the book, but the quote is quite prominent on the dust cover.   In so far as it does seem to set some kind of record, I'm fine with keeping a non-misleading statement in the lead. Sparafucil (talk) 00:18, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

text: I agree with User:Zero0000 that User:Sparafucil's suggested wording under Talk:Struma disaster#Incorrect Statement? (above) is reasonable. I have therefore re-worded the statement along those lines. Wikipedia has articles such as List of maritime disasters and List by death toll of ships sunk by submarines that determine how MV Struma's death toll ranks against other maritime mass killings such as ,  and Junyō Maru. Therefore in order to concentrate readers' attention on the gravity of up to 790 unarmed civilians being killed, rather than how their deaths rank against other maritime mass killings, I have moved the re-worded statement from the introduction to the "Aftermath" section near the end of the article. Is this alright? Motacilla (talk) 16:28, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Largest Naval Civilian Disaster

message: It isn't clear why we mention a speech by Lord Wedgewood made months afterwards, as if it was a significant part of the story.  It wasn't.  We don't even mention the topic pof the speech which was that the Jews of Palestine should be armed (for which Wedgewood was accused of incitement to violence). It wasn't a speech about the Struma.  More important politicians made statements that had actual historical significance, but we just have someone minor, presumably because he made a strong statement about hanging people. The full speech can be read here. Will anyone argue that we need it?  Zerotalk 05:52, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It was a speech in the British parliament by a member of the House of Lords which mentioned the Struma six times as being emblematic of what was wrong with British policies, and strongly calling for accountability for those responsible.  I presume it's not every day that a member of the House of Lords calls for the hanging of semi-senior British diplomats or colonial administrators. At a minimum, it was a colorful part of the political aftermath of the incident. AnonMoos (talk) 03:40, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Lots of wild statements are made in the House of Lords, because the rules give legal immunity to the members speaking there. Incidentally, here you can read Wedgewood suggesting that the passengers of the Struma blew it up themselves. Zerotalk 04:16, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Lord Wedgewood

message: Could someone summarize this?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-lone-survivor-of-torpedoed-jewish-refugee-ship-struma-a-901490.html
BTW Wedgwood saved my father's life.
Thansk
Telaviv1 (talk) 07:29, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It has nothing new.  All the background in the story is taken from Frantz and Collins (which it cites), and Stoliar gave many interviews before.  Frantz and Collins has much more detail than is given by Spiegel and much of it came from their own much more extensive interaction with Stoliar. Zerotalk 08:28, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: interview with the survivor in Der Spiegel

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