Talk:Autism spectrum/Archive 1

message: Whoever wrote this: Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.42.27.85 (talk) 18:31, 17 March 2002 (UTC)
thread_title: Initial text

message: There's an ongoing debate at Autism epidemic whether or not that article should be merged into this one—specifically into the "increase in diagnoses of autism" section. To me, that article and this article's section are describing the exact same phenomena, so they should be a single article. Any help from editors here is greatly appreciated. Feco 15:38, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: MergeFrom [[Autism epidemic]]

message: This writeup is highly flawed, and should be heavily revised. It is full of autistic-community in-speak and jargon, not to mention psychobabble. --dylain 17:51, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
I agree. I read this page hoping to better understand autism as a childhood developmental problem, but I found the article text to be confusing and speculative. Controversies in autism has fewer NPOV problems than this article. This page should have a neutrality warning. --Wronkiew 01:37, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  Links to both the M.I.N.D. study that came to that conclusion, and to other articles and Journal abstracts expressing the contrary opinion that this issue is still open.  There appears to be no broad consensus on the answer to this question in the professional community, so I provide links for both arguments.  Jfinlayson 00:25, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: The writer said "many," not all.  I think an underlying issue is whether autism is a "disease" that can be "cured," as opposed to a "condition" or "personality trait," that can be remediated. Cecropia 04:03, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Highly Flawed

message: An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Autism article:
* Can link no cure: ...[2004]], autism is believed by some to be treatable, though no cure exists and some controversy surrounds both its categorizati...
* Can link five hundred: ...dition that now appears to affect an estimated one in every five hundred children, causing disruption in families and unfulfilled li... (link to section)
* Can link Johns Hopkins Hospital: ... for many children.   In 1943 Dr. Leo Kanner of the Johns Hopkins Hospital studied a group of 11 children and introduced the label e... (link to section)
* Can link English language: ...nd introduced the label early infantile autism into the English language. At the same time a German scientist, Dr. Hans Asperger... (link to section)
* Can link social skills: ...s by 2 years * Does not respond to name * Loses language or social skills... (link to section)
* Can link eye contact: ...age or social skills  Some Other Indicators:  * Lacks eye contact... (link to section)
* Can link seeing things: ...the problem, people  on the autism spectrum have difficulty seeing things from another person's perspective. Neurotypical (popularly ... (link to section)
* Can link sign language: ...y literate and able to communicate in other ways -- images, sign language, and typing are far more natural to them. Some infants who ... (link to section)
* Can link spoken language: ...tistics have a strong tonal sense, and can often understand spoken language better if it is sung to them.... (link to section)
* Can link tone of voice: ..., but do not match those used by neurotypicals. Also, their tone of voice has a much more subtle inflection in reflecting their feeli... (link to section)
* Can link natural language: ... to learn the autistic body language, and with autistic natural language not tending towards speech, autistic people often are force... (link to section)
* Can link activities of daily living: ... generally applied to how well an individual can accomplish activities of daily living, rather than to IQ.  The terms low- and high-functioning ar... (link to section)
* Can link communication disorder: ...ng autistic at all, because they still think of autism as a communication disorder.... (link to section)
* Can link social communication: ...ge 3 years: (1) social interaction, (2) language as used in social communication, or (3) symbolic or imaginative play[,]" [http://www.behave... (link to section)
* Can link autistic spectrum: ...ouragement for relatives of family members diagnosed in the autistic spectrum to speak of their loved ones as having [[Asperger's syndrom... (link to section)
* Can link speech therapy: ...h Rett syndrome can be treated. Physical, occupational, and speech therapy can help with problems of coordination, movement, and [[spe... (link to section)
* Can link National Institute of Child Health and Human Development: ...ion, movement, and speech.  Scientists sponsored by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development have discovered that a mutation in the sequence of a single... (link to section)
* Can link quality of life: ... treating these children much sooner, and improving the quality of life these children experience.... (link to section)
* Can link Rockville, MD: ...wiki> *</nowiki>Rett syndrome. NIH Publication No. 01-4960. Rockville, MD: National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, ... (link to section)
* Can link population of the United States: ...mprovement in diagnostic methods.   In the last decade, the population of the United States has increased by 13%. There has been an increase in non-aut... (link to section)
* Can link Silicon Valley: ... Geek Syndrome] exploring the surge in apparent autism in Silicon Valley. This is only one example of the media's application of men... (link to section)
* Can link mental disease: ...ley. This is only one example of the media's application of mental disease labels to what is actually variant normal behavior. Shyness... (link to section)
* Can link non-profit: ...xtreme of the autistic spectrum. This is the opinion of the non-profit group Autism and Computing. They argue that the central... (link to section)
* Can link easy way: ...ttention-tunnelling, monotropism. Computers would afford an easy way of joining attention tunnels with minimal mutual discomfort... (link to section)
* Can link Cambridge, UK: ...n Baron-Cohen]]'s team at the Autism Research Centre in Cambridge, UK, measured testosterone levels in the amniotic fluid of moth... (link to section)
* Can link amniotic fluid: ...tre]] in Cambridge, UK, measured testosterone levels in the amniotic fluid of mothers while pregnant. This is presumed to reflect leve... (link to section)
* Can link Child Psychology: ...than girls. The results will be published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).... (link to section)
* Can link brain development: ...on-Cohen theorizes that high fetal testosterone levels push brain development towards an improved ability to see patterns and analyse sys... (link to section)
* Can link The Lancet: ... * Research by Andrew Wakefield in the UK, published in The Lancet in February 1998 suggested a possible link between auti... (link to section)
* Can link original research: ...he link, and some in fact showed a lack of such a link. The original research has come under criticism, largely due to a conflict of inte... (link to section)
* Can link conflict of interest: ...riginal research has come under criticism, largely due to a conflict of interest on Wakefield's part. In February 2004 The Lancet described ... (link to section)
* Can link brain stem: ...* Susan Bryson has proven autistics have a much smaller brain stem in 99% of autism cases; and that a small portion of the Tha... (link to section)
* Can link psychological test: ...us in a short time like neurotypicals, as demonstrated in a psychological test.... (link to section)
* Can link spoken word: ...cularly regarding improvements in ability to comprehend the spoken word -- with the gluten-free, casein-free diet & mercury che... (link to section)
* Can link heavy metal poisoning: ...] have often claimed Dr. Bernard Rimland's methods cure heavy metal poisoning, but not autism. Curing heavy metal poisoning when it is pr... (link to section)
* Can link recovery is possible: ... experience of a person with autism and the degree to which recovery is possible.  Many other people who have autism have written books on t... (link to section)
* Can link information processing: ...e-operational stage of cognitive development, where much of information processing is at a wholistic-visual level and largely non verbal and m... (link to section)
* Can link limited resource: ...ons for Autism]. In this model of mind, the fundamental and limited resource is mental attention. Mental events compete for and consume ... (link to section)
* Can link Mental events: ..., the fundamental and limited resource is mental attention. Mental events compete for and consume attention. In a polytropic mind, ma... (link to section)
* Can link white matter: ...to be modular. With the aid of (fMRI), it was seen that white matter which connects various areas of the brain like cables, have... (link to section)
* Can link Online community: ... to autism. * WrongPlanet.net: Online community and resource for those with Asperger's Syndrome ... (link to section)
* Can link Developmental Disorder: ...h autism) * Unraveling the Mystery of Autism and Pervasive Developmental Disorder: A Mother's Story of Research and Recovery,  by Karyn Serou... (link to section)
* Can link Simon & Schuster: ... of Research and Recovery,  by Karyn Seroussi. Published by Simon & Schuster, ISBN 0684831643 (Apparent cure through early diagnosis, da... (link to section)
* Can link case studies: ...hos" about subclinical autism, autistic traits, and various case studies of people with different degrees of autism.... (link to section)
Additionally, there are some other articles which may be able to linked to this one (also known as "backlinks"):
* In Education voucher, can backlink autism: ...ong" religion or ethnicity, those with disabilities such as autism or multiple sclerosis, and those with disciplinary problems...
* In 1957, can backlink autism: ...r  * April 5 - Ivan Corea, Sri Lankan autism campaigner...
* In 2002, can backlink autism: ... 9]] - Linda Perham MP initiates her historic debate on autism in the Palace of Westminster in Autism Awareness Year i...
* In Feral child, can backlink autism: ...red Genie and thought that she was 6 or 7 years old and had autism. When it was revealed that she was actually 13 going on 14,...
* In Metallothionein, can backlink autism: ...n dysfunction is prevalent among individuals throughout the autism spectrum (classical autism, Asperger's, PDD-NOS, etc.)  The...
* In Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, can backlink autism: ...wbacks in the form of "Closed Shell Syndrome" or cyberbrain autism and "Cyberbrain Sclerosis". This technology is in many ways...
* In Bayswater North, Victoria, can backlink Autism: ...ry Bell]].
 
 Until recently the Irabina Special School for Autism Spectrum Disorders was in a Jasmine Road building. In [[199...
* In List of fictional diseases, can backlink autism: ...he Stand]] * Cyberbrain Closed Shell Syndrome - a type of autism caused by cyberbrain implants, [[Ghost in the Shell: Stan...
* In The-dot, can backlink Autism: ...de ranging as whether or not there's a link between MMR and Autism; whether incest is a matter of taste or morality; and who'd...
* In Tim Harrod, can backlink Autism: ...obably the result of Asperger's syndrome- a  milder form of Autism marked by obsession with minuscule topics and a difficulty ...
* In Lorna Wing, can backlink Autism: ...ntal Disorders, 9, pp. 11-29.  Wing, L. (1980). Childhood Autism and Social Class: a Question of Selection?, British Journ...
* In Cure Autism Now, can backlink autism: ...is an organization dedicated to finding a possible cure for autism and funds a lot of research (such as genetic research) to t...
* In Stanley Greenspan, can backlink Autism: ...se to the needs of the increasing population diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorders, who were then being either served by be...
Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:11, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest 44 possible wiki links and 13 possible backlinks for [[Autism]]. 

message: Is it just me or does this section seem speculative to anyone else:  "many autistic people are not savants, and savants make up 10% of the autistic population (but only 1% of the non-autistic population)."  It seems to me that there is no scientific way to determine a "savant" and that it is really a bunch of pop-psychological nonsense.  I would like to see someone provide a scientific source on this claim.  Until then, I've removed the statement.  --Dæmon 20:41, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Autistic Savants

message: I'm in the process of merging the Childhood autism article with autism. There's really no need for a separate article on autism in childhood; that makes as much sense as separate articles for, say, childhood leukemia. I tried to redirect a couple of days ago, and someone reverted it in less than an hour. As far as I can tell, most of the content of the Childhood Autism article is either already stated in the main article or doesn't really fit in Wikipedia. Nonetheless, I've posted the content of Childhood Autism as a subset of this talk page, in case anyone thinks something in it belongs in the main article or can somehow be incorporated into it. As far as I see, there's really no place in Wikipedia for things like the annotated bibliography, but it might be useful on another wiki. The only things I've added to the main article are a few links and the image at the top. (This article seems a bit image-poor as is; I think having an image of an autistic person at the introduction is a good "orientation.") --Szyslak 11:05, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Childhood Autism article

message: I think Dr. Rimland should probably be in a linked separate article. I have read some of his work and heard him speak locally. I would characterize him as a brilliant man who does useful work. However, he came to a point in his discussion in which he finished speaking about research and cases and shifted to his ideas about toxic origins of autism. The paradigm shift was palpable, and seemed to move from objective to very subjective. My own impression from my study and experience with autistic children and young adults, including my autistic child (and possibly to a lesser degree, myself) indicates that if toxic exposure or vaccines are a factor, they are only one factor and, in many cases, no factor at all. Cecropia 18:56, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Bernard Rimland]]

message: In the United States, the public schools' responsibility for providing services ends when the person with ASD reaches the age of 22. The family is then faced with the challenge of finding living arrangements and employment to match the particular needs of their adult child, as well as the programs and facilities that can provide support services to achieve these goals.
I was just wondering if that is really a true statement. I don't mean to be a questioning snitch, I just want to know. JB82 00:10, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: About the last statement in ''Adults with an autism spectrum disorder''

message: This section seems to have multiple POVs, and be somewhat self-contradictory and contentious. Much copyediting is needed. -- Karada 21:45, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll tell the world. The sheer amount of information in that section is overwhelming. Something has got to be done to distill that down to essentials. --Bluejay Young 05:24, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)
I agree with the below -- the "controversies in autism section" is slanted, wholly unsourced, and entirely inappropriate even for a discussion of controversial matters.  It's about as far from "netural" as you can get, and, as the following poster states, is little more than one person's rant against their misperception of current techniques for treating autism.  It needs to be completely rewritten, and in the meantime I definitely think that it should be deleted (if such a thing is possible or appropriate for Wikipedia; I'm new here) . Geoff.green 14:06, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Applied Behaviour Analysis 

message: The cause and historics of one such treatment, Applied Behaviour Analysis (ABA), has been analysed in Michele Dawson's "The Misbehavior of Behaviourists" http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_aba.html
A key feature of this site is the academic-level proof that ABA was constructed from the earlier model of "correcting" homosexuality with electroshocks as a means of making non-homosexuals comfortable. This proof comes from Lovaas' own works no less, including his orthodox-christian values as justification. Dawson goes on to show that strong aversives are the inherent effective ingredient of ABA; that the opportunity to use strong aversives is directly related to the job satisfaction of the professional who uses it on the autistic (not necessarily out of sadism; therapists like successes better than failures); that ABA doesn't only address the dysfunctional side of autism but also enforces social norms so that non-autistics feel better around autistics in the stated goal to remove/hide autism entirely. This position has been softened by ABA in discourse, but not in always in their actions).
Autistics who are capable of written or spoken communication have often argued that the strong aversives used to punish breaking of a social rule are unethical and barbaric, especially in cases of "soft" rules that don't relate to things illegal or are widely tolerated in non-autistics; for example, non-autistics are frequently given more lenience concerning the same rule(especially when very subtle nuance is missed by the autistic for reasons of cultural traits they cannot absorb). Arbitrary culture-centric rules are also frowned upon; some autistics have left a job rather than wear a tie, because of either they're not coordinated enough to put one on or because they find the physical inconfort intolerable. The tie situation has been seen as purely hypocritical in programmer-type jobs, since very few people (let alone end users) will actually be there to notice if the autistic is wearing a tie or not(and whether it is misaligned, etc). Some employees with Asperger syndrome have been known to specify in their work contract the right not to make eye contact with the employer(eye contact is a cue of honesty in western culture) or the right not to conform to a dress code - this has been known along with other oddball demands(reasonnable or not) that occasionally pop up in Silicon Valley. In some other cultures like asia the eye contact cultural requirement is shorter so it's easier on autistics; but the dress code may be almost totally mandatory and can lead to being fired when the boss changes to a more traditional individual.
Autistics who communicate have also expressed speculation that if ABA is so effective, perhaps it should be used to treat school bullies. Bullies have long been perceived as having a de-facto 'right' and 'duty' to torment the autistic (NOT the old idea that peer pressure can force children to behave in a neurotypical manner, but the idea that the bully needs to bully and show an image of not caring for the suffering of others to maintain his own 'tough' status to himself and his gang. The monetary gain in the practices of 'taxing' and later drug dealing withing a college also requires a 'tough' image which demands frequent proof of willingness and ability to beat people up when they displease the bully). Bullies don't like to be perceived as weak, and are be bullied themselves if they stopped their aggressive actions(by former victims forming gangs and ambitious bullies seeking superiority to the average bully). This concept is similar to ABA, training bullies to be more bullying(and more aligned with their gang) with strong aversives - the bullies have an early 'training' that will influence their adult life. The usual advice offered to autistics by adults, often intended to help the victim become harder to hurt (e.g., why didn't you strike first? Form your own gang! Fight back! Seek teacher help!) are as completely unadapted as the blaming of the autistic for the incidents (Why do you provoke them? Why did you obey such a silly suggestion from a bully? Why did you let them beat you and not do something about it? Why are you not looking me in the eye like a honest American when you speak of important things?) Authorities tend to categorize whoever has the highest number of incidents as being the source of the problem. Since school directors have so little time and so little reliable facts, they tend to work "statistically" and discard the occasional fact as not typical of the whole whenever large number of child point at a single innocent on a regular basis. The poor social performance of autistics in unprepared social situations prevents any elegant, concise, non cultural values shocking, mysterious symptom enlightening, articulate explaining in front of the director. Understanding by the director of the situation may occur if parents of the autistic are involved. But in some cases(especially large schools) the directors will realise it is much easier to tolerate the violence of some dozens of bullies on very few autistic daily than it is to protect all autistics in the school and have the bullies strike more randomly, resulting in 10% of angry parents where 1% of angry parents was present for the same total number bullies and bullying incidents(usually thought to be a mostly unsolvable problem and even a necessary learning experience in the traditional american view). In this respect some directors are acting out of accountant mentality seeking the greatest number of happy/quiet parents, while others have heavy prejudices regarding marginals in general or autistics in peculiar.
The problem most poorly understood by parents is incidents that are knowingly the fault of the autistic; the autistic will not avoid frequent punishment if he stop causing incidents willingly because of the flood of blame he gets from incidents where he's innocent. The autistic might react by developing a strong sense of ethics and honesty as a compensation for feelings of inferiority (very common - dysfunctional where white lies are the social rule), or if he doesn't he will completely lack 'training' in not willingly causing incidents.
As for whether high school punishment should be changed when dealing with autistics, this question remains controversial among autistics themselves except when punishment is judged too strong for anyone(such as physical punishment, illegal in some countries and encouraged in others). Punishment type however should be changed, since situations that would be punishment for a neurotypical might be delightful for an autistic, and vice versa. and a nice picnic as a reward might act as a punishment if it goes against the autistic's need for predictability of routine, if wind/double meaning overload/sunlight/eye contact inconfort forces the autistic to 'space out', or if the picnic is associated with a reward for say some great school success but there isn't a similar picnic for the next identical great school success (easily avoided by making rewards and punishment very predictable well in advance). Teachers should ask parents what works and what doesn't - and many teachers totally fail to do that, claiming it would be controversial for the school to act differently because one child is autistic! (especially true of situations where the punishment used on autistics is considered neutral or a reward by normal children; this also gives bullies an excuse which is tolerated or even encouraged by some teachers)
ABA also lacks the "why". The "bad choice equals punishment" equation does not address the why this is a social rule, how relatively important it is to other social rules it might interfer with, and how it works in the mind of others. "Scope" too, is missing from ABA; autistics often fail to generalize that behaviors learned in one situation to other situation like other children do, or fail to avoid overgeneralization. ABA assumes 'why' and 'scope' to be completely beyond the comprehension of the autistic. Sadly, this is true of deeply affected Kanner autistics who will never learn from a candy/electroshock if not given mere seconds after it is earned (very much like certain dog training programs). It is however not true for all autistics, particularly Asperger autistics or those who are simply a bit "developmentally delayed". ABA fails to take advantage of a partial 'theory of mind', of 'willingness to learn by example', of 'tendency to follow  well-detailed predictable rules because predictability is felt as an inherent reward', of 'building upon the tendency to evolve a strong sense of ethics independant of punishment/reward', of 'state the social rules as they exist, not the white lie version which weakens theory of mind', or even 'This social rule is not so important enough, because following it would cause you severy sensory pain. But to look as normal as you can try this instead'. Using those new tactics relegates ABA to a small corner of the therapy, and whoever has success this way is not using the scientifically proven ABA method, as mandated by some Canada courts who made it mandatory for the state to give ABA. Not being strictly inside the 'scientifically proven ABA' is uncomfortable to some authorities who aren't sufficiently in touch with the facts or simply know doing the right thing risk not having a steady subvention; autistics have never been allowed true self-representation, and therapists tend to follow orders, peer pressure of other therapists, and whatever is most likely to renew their subventions, whatever the parent with a newly diagnosed child has read in the newspapers and now asks for, scientific studies as superficially described by current ABA superficial crash-courses (there are one-hour formations in Canada right now).
It is not surprising that autistic adults feel outraged by 'orthodox' ABA and that their cooperation can only be obtained by using punishment strong enough to make homosexuals give up all their subcultural traits and reject homosexuality! (as used historically inflicted on homosexual non-autistics by Lovaas himself). ABA itself makes no distinction of what should be enforced with strong aversives, what shouldn't be enforced with strong aversives, and what is a grey area. Therapists have historically drifted toward more and more punitions because they wanted results, or because it improves their job satisfaction(for reasons unspecified in the study on job satisfaction -- sadism may not be the motive, but the complete lack of industry watchdogs makes ABA very easy to abuse).
One example of ABA's perfectly valid, peer-reviewed science is listed in the PUBMED medical index; this is a study that asks which electroshock pattern is the most painful. This is a year 2002 article, and despite ABA's denial of punishment as necessary the research oriented toward finding maximum punishment possible is useful in areas like prevention of automutilation in Kanner autistics.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12365852
Ethical questions may rise in the use of electroshocks in this study, but no data has been faked and nothing has been misrepresented so it is technically sound - but is never presented to the public by ABA professionals anymore because of fear of reject of ABA without strong aversives.
The scientific proof of ABA working within its original use of strong aversives exists, but ABA is also scientifically proved to fail with milder or no aversives by Lovaas' own study and assertions. Today's ABA professionals have a choice of using strong aversives in order to remain within the limits of scientific proof(and getting immediate results in many cases), not use strong aversives but remain otherwise within ABA limits and therefore act in a way scientifically proven to fail, or introduce new active ingredients in ABA that do not need ABA in order to get good results(doing the right thing, but under the wrong method name because ABA has court sanction and respectability).
The general public is usually ignorant of these distinctions and the view presented to them is that there is one ABA(not many), it's scientifically proven and court mendated in some cases, it has been claimed to make half of autistics indistinguishable from normals in some scientific study by a man named Lovaas, and the vast majority of newspapers rarely if ever mentionned a controversy of any kind. No wonder the general public thinks ABA should be implemented!
People who think autistics should behave like neurotypicals and that punishment is a worthwhile method should reflect on this. The very 'humanity' they value so much would take as much punishment to take away, turning them into people socially undistinguishable from true autistics, than it takes to turn an autistic into someone socially undistinguishable from a neurotypical! The devastation felt by the hypothetical 'autistized' person would be equal to the devastation of autistics who have their true personalities shredded away day by day in an aversive ABA program. Given the importance of what is lost in a "sucessful" ABA process, it's no wonder ABA is only effective in direct proportion with the strength of the aversives. Many independantly-living autistics think human right violations occur within some of the flavors of ABA, and a few realise that without the punishment ABA is misrepresented as proven.
As for how far the punishment an unethical behavior of an autism institution can go (ABA or otherwise), read The Standford Prison Experiment. Consider that these autism treatments have been going on for decades without watchdogs. Many autistics are much easier to manipulate than neurotypical prisoners. Even the most capable autistics aren't allowed to be present in the decision-making process even as silent witness. Very ordinary random individuals use punishment without therapeutic goals for their personal enjoyment if allowed to, and the Standford study showed that no one was willing to stop them (one third of the "guards" in the experiment went way out of line). Consider what Standford reveals about what human nature becomes when left unchecked. Then think: should some of the independantly-living, self-supporting, mild-mannered high-functionning autistics be allowed to serve as watchdog? Would it help prevent SOME abuse? Why isn't this allowed?
[this next paragraph needs NPOVing]
Many autism organisations could be renamed as "society for the well being of autistic parents at the expense of the autistic, using methods typical of dictatorships up to the limit allowed by law, under pretense of helping and representing the autistics". The worst and the best examples are found in how an autism society deals with fully independent, communicating autistics, making them a valuable ressource, yes-man 'zombies', or blacklisting them from reunions altogether.  [The author of this part of the article is such a blacklisted individual as is his closest friend. The token autistic spokesperson is forced to report on our activities to the heads of the autism society if he wants to keep his technician job outside the autism society because his boss is part of his autism society!]   This situation is not unique; it exists in at least three autism societies in the same area.
[hmmm... this isn't ABA. What should I name the new category?]
As for those traditional social skills courses, some high-functioning/aspergers are far more competent in understanding social interactions than autism academics are (as explicitely stated by many psychiatrists). That doesn't translate into better social skills, much like someone made blind can understand road signs perfectly but will never look at them when walking to the grocery store a few blocks away. That behavior seems as strange as autism for the same reason; the observer doesn't know where the disability is. Because of this incompetent social skill courses are little more than glorified baby sitting in some cases(repeating books autistic could easily have read and understood), and used as cheap babysitting by many parents when it's less expensive than regular babysitting...   very practical feedback by the few autistics who are of better academic competence in autism than a regular academic is being ignored by professionals and this is a problem. Good autism-specific social skill courses are rare(especially at the highest-functionning levels; low and high level courses must have similarities but can't be the same). If you find a good course please wikipedia that treasure!
One key autism institution controversy: "if prisonners, the blind, the insane, and the mentally retarded can have a few watchdogs - especially watchdogs chosen among themselves - to help prevent abuses, why can't autistics have them? And why all the snitching?"
---- 
This page appears to contain a large amount of content which either was copied or has been copied by websites that do not credit Wikipedia - I can't really tell which. To name a few:
http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/asd_nimh3.htm
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/autism.cfm
http://counsellingresource.com/distress/autistic/autism-nimh-1.html
They all refer to a document called Autism Spectrum Disorders (Pervasive Developmental Disorders), which apparently was published by the NIH in 2004. Is it possible large portions of this document were copied into this page? Or was this popular document was constructed using this page?
Can anyone explain what's going on for sure? Deco 07:50, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Applied Behaviour Analysis

message: I heavily modified this line: "Susan Bryson has proven autistics have a much smaller brain stem in 99% of autism cases"
Really? Proven? 99%? Where's the published claim? Where's the research document? The only evidence I can find for anything close to this claim is right here in this Wikipedia article and in [www.thedoctorslounge.net|this website] which is uncredited mirror of Wikipedia. It stands to reason that if 99% of autistics displayed such a striking anamoly, it would be part of the diagnostic. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 22:55, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wow!! Autism Explained in 99% of Cases!!!! 

message: Aspies with statistical skills have claimed that Andrew Wakefield was, and still is, severely incompetent in statistics and failed to recognize the extreme bias of his sample among other obvious flaws. Wakefield's nonscientific study and its continuing circulation in autism societies is sometimes depicted by the media as a "proof" no autism-vaccine connection exists and "it's 100% hype", a position that wasn't proven either (even if most cases are not MMR or vaccine related).
I do not think 'aspies with statistical skills' should be quoted in an encyclopedia.. The nickname 'aspies' also doesn't sound very encyclopediac. Martijn Faassen 12:10, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course specific origins of theories should be marked. It's just that 'aspies with neurological skill' sounds simultaneously too in-crowd and specific and on the other hand is entirely vague. In this form it sounds like "Trekkies with fictional skill state that Dr. Bumblebee's criticism Star Trek as literature is wholly unfounded." Martijn Faassen 00:07, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  'aspies' 

message: I am sorry the article seems at present to lack any discussion of late diagnosis (eg in adulthood) and of possible diagnostic confusion with other conditions. Laurel Bush 12:11, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Late diagnosis and confusion with other conditions

message: The language of the article strikes me as generally that of collective licentiate delusion, as represented by a bible called DSM.  It  (the language) seems to embody the delusion that if a diagnosis is listed in the bible then a it represents necessarily a definitive natural phenomenon rather than a socio-medical construct or hypothesis. .  I presume invention of the diagnosis is a result of case studies and I would like to see in the “History” section some detail about the cases that first attracted the diagnosis, and about how these cases were labelled prior to invention of  autism. Laurel Bush 16:59, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Delusional language

message: There is a new article on the recent rise in autism diagnoses at autism epidemic.  Comment and contributions by knowledgeable editors from this page are welcomed and encouraged. --TenOfAllTrades (talk/contrib) 02:57, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autism epidemic