Talk:Tim Raines

message: "Tim has possibly been the most overlooked player of the 1980s"  nPOV?? 63.84.231.3 21:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: On November 9, 2005, a change was made stating that Tim Raines nickname, "Rock", came from his cocaine use. I do not believe this is true; if anyone can provide a reference, can they do so?
Raines continued to use the nickname "Rock" well after his cocaine usage was known, which would seem unlikely if this was the original source. In fact, at the start of one season, he asked to be referred to as "Rock Raines", and the scoreboard and PA in Olympic Stadium announced him in this way (this did not last; some time during the season, they reverted to "Tim Raines").
The Montreal media has always reported the origin of "Rock" being the fact that Raines's muscles appeared as solid as a rock.
Unless someone can provide a reference to the contrary, I propose removing the claim that the nickname came from Raines's drug use. Isaac Lin 15:41, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's mentioned in Ken Burn's baseball documentary; kinda famous, actually. 69.215.136.153 (talk) 02:22, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

text: If it's common knowledge, it should be easy to provide a verifiable source for this.  Please do so before readding. Jpers36 21:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nickname re: drug use

message: Has Lupus
, should also add to the lupus page under "famous people with lupus." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.127.190.128 (talk) 18:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lupus

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:25, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: I added the references to Raines being at the top of the leaderboard in OBP in order to show why Raines is considered a top leadoff hitter rather than just stating it, in accordance with Wikipedia style guidelines. As a strong on base percentage is the primary characteristic of an excellent leadoff hitter, it seems remiss to not mention Raines's skills in this area. Isaac Lin (talk) 23:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand, but being among the league's top 5 in OBP for a couple of years really isn't much support for saying he was one of the best leadoff hitters ever, and apart from that it isn't nearly notable enough to include at the top. A high OBP might be described as a characteristic of a top leadoff hitter, though there have been varying approaches over the years; some might prefer a player with speed who steals bases and scores more runs (as Raines did), even if his OBP isn't as high. Some noted players regarded as excellent leadoff hitters had somewhat unremarkable OBPs, such as Lou Brock .343, Maury Wills .330, Willie Wilson .326, Luis Aparicio .311, etc.; Aparicio, Wills and Wilson were never in the league's top 10, and Brock only once, yet they were regarded as premier leadoff men. It's not that there's no correlation between OBP and value as a leadoff hitter, it's just that I don't think it's a good idea to presume that OBP is always regarded as the most important measuring stick. In this area, I think quotes, annual ratings, etc. would be a much better way to establish that Raines was regarded as a top leadoff man. MisfitToys (talk) 00:30, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not just for a couple of years, but for five straight seasons, Raines finished no lower than fourth in OBP, and in 1989, Raines finished fifth. OBP remains one of Raines's key skills that I believe should be described in the introduction. Isaac Lin (talk) 00:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But finishing among the league leaders for a few years isn't generally included in article intros; if someone finished in the top five in HRs or steals a few times, but only led the league once, that probably wouldn't merit mentioning either, as there would likely be better standards by which to evaluate them. Again, I think that because a high OBP doesn't automatically mean someone was thought of as a top leadoff hitter (in fact, most players with high OBPs don't hit leadoff at all), using quotes and other citations to support the point is more ideal. MisfitToys (talk) 00:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Supporting evidence for "top leadoff hitter"

message: Suprisingly enough I'm finding multiple sources (albiet not the best ones, at least not that I can see with just a brief google search) that verify this.  I'll leave referencing this fact to someone with a better knowledge of the material, but there is no need for an edit war over an unplesant fact.  I'll be moving on to something that's ACTUALLY being vandalized now. --Human.v2.0 (talk) 03:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed it for the time being.  If anyone wants to reinstate it with a reference added, feel free, but not without one.  Katharineamy (talk) 12:59, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The next time someone states that information is true but needs sourcing, please feel free to simply move allong if you are not willing to do the part of the job that actually needs doing.  Removing an item that has been verified but was left unsourced simply because I am not familiar with the best baseball sites to reference for it.  It's unhelpfull and lazy. --Human.v2.0 (talk) 14:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I was quite happy for a third party to replace it, since I've got no more knowledge of the topic than you do, indeed possibly less.  However, unreferenced controversial facts do have to be removed under WP:BLP, whether they're known to be true or not. Katharineamy (talk) 15:40, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess my point is that you took the quick route that cased someone else more work, instead of doing a slightly larger amount of work in the first place to cite a reference.  I full agree with unsourced controversial materials, but far too many people seem to take the tactic of simply not bothering to see if there is a source for them.  At any rate I have a source now, and am looking for a better one (a copy of the transcript itself) later on. --Human.v2.0 (talk) 15:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Vial

message: I propose removing the inclusion of the template for opening day designated hitters. As discussed on the WikiProject Baseball talk page, the category of opening day designated hitter is not notable. Isaac Lin (talk) 22:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to remove inclusion of template for opening day DH 

message: Rather than continually reverting, can the interested parties discuss adding Raines's career run total to the infobox? Isaac Lin (talk) 07:29, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Career run total to infobox 

message: Trying again to reach consensus on the lead section: with Raines's candidacy for the Hall of Fame being discussed over the last couple of years, I have not read any mention of his ranking amongst switch hitters, but seen lots of discussion of his on-base percentage. I believe the listing of Raines's career rankings of switch hitters isn't warranted in the lead section, and his on-base percentage and perhaps OPS+ are key characteristics to describe. Isaac Lin (talk) 04:58, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Just my two cents on a couple of items: The lead is supposed to be an overall description of the person, where generality is deemed OK, and in-line citations are discouraged, unless specific pieces of information might be in dispute, see WP:Lead.  Saying something like "Raines is considered one of the top lead-off hitters, baserunners, and switch-hitters in MLB history", is acceptable, as long as each point is expanded on later in the article, and is referenced.  Hope this helps.Neonblak talk -  06:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead section 

message: Rather than continually reverting each other, can the interested parties please discuss their proposed changes to the infobox? Given that the disagreement covers many players, perhaps discussing it at WT:BASEBALL would be appropriate. Isaac Lin (talk) 23:40, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball#Coaching info in infobox Should have done it weeks ago--Yankees10 01:14, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to infobox 

message: Was he injured in 1992-93 and beyond?  His stolen bases dropped dramatically and never even approached 1/3 of the levels it had even in 1991.  
It certainly curtailed his effectiveness as an offensive player.  Could someone mention this in the article, or mention that injuries made him less explosive?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.130.226.220 (talk) 15:52, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think he just got older and slowed down, reserving his energy towards the rest of his game. His OPS remained high in 1993 and 1995 and in 1994, where it was average, his SB% was 100%. Thus I disagree that his stolen base totals curtailed his offensive value (where "curtail" has the connotation of cutting off the amount of value he was able to deliver). He was injured when he was with the Yankees and was diagnosed with lupus afterwards; this is noted in the article along with his reduced playing time. isaacl (talk) 16:26, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Drop in Stolen bases 

message: Can someone who knows more about baseball than I do please review this sentence:
"In spite of the shortened season, Raines led the Expos in runs, walks, times on base, runs created, and stolen bases, in addition to batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage"? 
Wasn't the whole team's season shortened, or was Raines somehow uniquely affected by the shortened season?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Other-thing (talk • contribs) 04:45, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As described earlier in the paragraph, Raines re-signed with the Expos on May 1, a month into the season. Thus the rest of the team had an additional month of playing time. isaacl (talk) 06:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shortened season 

message: Two marriages are mentioned with nothing in between. Should we not mentioned what happened to the first wife? Divorce? Deceased? Polygamy? ```Buster Seven Talk 14:09, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been unable to find any information on this matter. If you are able to find some sources, please do raise them. isaacl (talk) 14:24, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for reply. It's on my "to do" list. :~) Buster Seven Talk 14:31, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In an AP story from March-2001 about Tim SR playing in a game against Tim JR, it reads "...my wife is here, my father is here.....". I think its a safe assumption that the referred to "wife" is the mother of Tim JR. That gets us to just ten years ago. Investigation continues. Buster Seven Talk 14:40, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: See  He divorced Virginia in 2006 and married Shannon in 2007. Per another Chgo paper about a special ceremony for Sox slugger Frank Thomas.....Raines missed the event because hisa wife  (Shannon) was beridden in preparation for birth of twins. Raines was 49. ```Buster Seven Talk 20:27, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I recall seeing the NNDB reference before, but was dubious about its reliability. Personally I'd like to have a better source. isaacl (talk) 20:51, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it may be of dubious reliability if used in the article as a reference for a divorce in 2006. If its alright with you, I will mention the fact that he divorced to allay my desire to mention the status of wife #1. I'll also keep digging. ```Buster Seven Talk 21:50, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As this is a significant event in a person's life, I'd prefer keeping this out until a better source is found. isaacl (talk) 22:04, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

text: If no one has any further comments, I will revert the edit. I agree that it leaves a gap in the article, but since this is a significant aspect of two persons' lives, I'm not comfortable with including this information without a better source. isaacl (talk) 07:20, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't recall having this much consternation about the simple mention of a divorce. I assure you that a source will be found. in the meantime the cite needed entry is acceptable. ```Buster Seven Talk 08:20, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If, for example, it turns out the person in question actually passed away, then it would be unfortunate to have given incorrect information regarding what happened. I've looked a lot for this info and haven't been able to find it; while I don't doubt it can be found somewhere, I see no rush to include information without an adequate source. Regarding the unreliability of NNDB, I found the following threads in the reliable sources noticeboard: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 101#NNDB, Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 3#NNDB isaacl (talk) 08:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

text: I'm wary of assuming there was a divorce—it's possible she passed away while married and Raines re-married afterwards. I don't think this is the case, but without being able to rule it out, I'm uncomfortable with having an unsupported assertion in the article (particularly given the difficulty in sourcing this info, Wikipedia is probably the number one hit right now for anyone searching for divorce information). isaacl (talk) 16:37, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. I understand your concern. Feel free to revert. I may revisit but unlikely. There doesnt seem to be any easily discovered reference to divorce available. TRA! ```Buster Seven Talk 16:55, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your cooperation! It is indeed a gap in the narrative of Raines's life, and so should you come across any sources to explain it, I would be happy to hear about it. isaacl (talk) 23:42, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Personal life

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified