Talk:Kwanzaa/Archive 5

message: Kwanza is celebrated very little in the world apart from the U.S. and U.K.  Many of the most sophisticated Africans I know have discussed this with me. 76.179.235.134 02:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Grigg, for what it's worth, is senior editor of the John Birch Society's magazine, and, unsurprisingly, is a font of far-right opinion. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:07, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is this "unsurprising"?  Justforasecond 18:03, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's unsurprising because JBS is a well-known ultra-conservative group.  --Cyde Weys 16:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kwanza is NOT Pan-African 

message: The link for the Karenga quote on placing Kwanzaa near Christmas is dead.  I have found a new link that shows it was posted by an anti-Kwanzaa site with no reference to when Karenga said this.  I haven't found when the statement was added, but it seems that this is a press release attempting to denounce the holiday and has no reference to when Karenga supposedly said all this.  Do we have a direct quote from an unbiased source? If not, I'm going to remove the quote as it is a bit inflammatory.  Thesilence 16:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brotherhood of a New Destiny / Karenga Quote 

message: elpincha 03:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: C'mon. As of current edition, the places that point to Refs 1 and 12 contain exactly the same text. And it's just one example. Read once from beginning to end, and you'll notice a lot of repetition. I am not editing out of respect and knowing I'd make a mess of it. elpincha 12:28, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you know something is wrong, either fix it -- this is, after all, a wiki -- or tell us exactly what's wrong. You're right that the quote is repeated; the section on "History and etymology" and the section on "evolution" could use merging. Anything else? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 13:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK... text pointing to references 5 and 14 is basically the same... etc. Once again, if you read the article beginning-to-end, you'll notice some more repetition. I am not qualified to edit the article as I do not know enough about the subject matter and I do not celebrate Kwanzaa myself; any remaining inaccuracies could embarrass me in the future. I'd rather see somebody undertake the cleanup who knows and cherishes Kwanzaa. And please be assured that my only motivation in this discussion is my wish to make the article better, even if not editing it myself. (Personal note to jpgordon: maybe you are too involved here and just fail to see the issues... it is a known phenomenon, and that is why all writers have editors and proof-readers and what have you. No disrespect intended.) elpincha 18:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Beg pardon? I'm not involved at all; I've paid little attention to the article as a whole, but instead have mostly been fighting the vandals and POV pushers who want to infest the article. I do understand what you mean, though -- "programmer's blind spot", we call it. But feel free to edit the article! Nobody has to be "qualified"; in fact, distance from the subject matter is sometimes advantageous. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:56, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Why is so much of this article written twice, including citations?

message: That'll work.  Though I don't think the "some" is 'weasely' (a source is provided), your edit makes it more specific.  Thanks.  Ufwuct 21:40, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Smiles, one of the times collaboration worked! Yay us! You may wish to take a look at Weasel_words#Generalization_using_weasel_words: "People say…" (Who are the people who say it?)  - IMHO, "some say" is a variation on "people say" - since it is some people who would have said it, yes? No insult was intended, just tightening up the prose a little. KillerChihuahua?!? 21:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Coulter song

message: ...shall we consider semi-protecting the article now, or should we wait until the usual barrage of abuse starts, as it will? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kwanzaa is coming... 

message: Do not walk through an article and remove my edits with out a discussion, you have reverted everything i have done for no reason. Discuss before starting an issue, Karenga is a Pan-Africanist, go and look up the term. Kwanza is a Pan-African holiday, --Halaqah 17:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This is a warning to the revert editor

message: black and black people doesnt fit in with kwanza, Karenga calls it an African American holiday, dont turn around and start talking about black and black holiday. He clearly more often than not calls it a Pan-African holiday. Jpgordon went crazy and reverted everything i added, he didnt look at the context of sentences which in one hand said blacks and the next African American. Indians are black, so which black group are you talking about? I have not changed any of the quoted material, do not revert anything i have done with discussing it here. even the image i moved to get rid of the white space he/she reverted.--Halaqah 17:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Language

message: I really dont know who edits here, 
almost exclusively by African-Americans in the United States of America.[citation needed] 
I have not removed this strange remark about "Exclusively" I am not African American and i celebrate Kwanzaa, so do many people in Africa. I will let you go and get a solid reference. PLease not the reference i have added from the mouth of the creator. everywhere it says PAN AFRICAN and these people delete this and said "black nationalist"--Halaqah 18:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: No more games

message: I know there aren't supposed to be commercial links on Wikipedia, but would someone be so kind as to post some links on where to get Kwanzaa decorations?  They are HARD TO FIND, and my wife and I have been trying to find some for our kids...
Thanks!
-- Mkamensek (talk) - The LeftOverChef
*Amazon has 'em. Just search for "kwanzaa".Cancel that, they're almost all the same thing, an "art poster" of some candles. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where to get Kwanzaa Stuff? 

message: Far too many people are coming here and vandalizing the page, i will back any request for page protection. why does wikipedia allow unreg users to do this? It always means someone has to stand guard on these pages. --Halaqah 12:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: request protection

message: Seven symbols are displayed during the Kwanzaa ceremony to represent the seven principles of African culture and community. 
Mkeka (M-kay-cah) - This is the mat (usually made of straw, but it can also be made of fabric or paper) upon which all the other Kwanzaa symbols are placed. The mat represents the foundation of African traditions and history. 
Mazao (Maah-zow) - The crops, fruits and vegetables, represent traditional African harvest celebrations and show respect for the people who labored to grow them. 
Kinara (Kee-nah-rah) - The candle holder represents the original stalk from which all African ancestors came. It holds the seven candles. 
Mishumaa (Mee-shoo-maah) - In the seven candles, each candle represents one of the seven principles. The candles are red, green, and black -- symbolic of the African people and their struggles. 
Muhindi (Moo-heen-dee) - The corn represents African children and the promise of their future. One ear of corn is set out for each child in the family. In a family without children, one ear is set out symbolically to represent the children of the community. 
Kikombe cha Umoja (Kee-com-bay chah-oo-moe-jah) - The Unity Cup symbolizes the first principle of Kwanzaa -- the unity of family and of the African people. The cup is used to pour the libation (water, juice or wine) for family and friends. 
Zawadi (Sah-wah-dee) - The gifts represent the labors of the parents and the rewards of their children. Gifts are given to educate and enrich the children -- they may include a book, a piece of art or an educational toy. At least one of the gifts is a symbol of African heritage. --HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 18:54, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: How can this be added?

message: Aren't there quite a few critics of Kwanzaa? I think it deserves a section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.66.50.130 (talk) 15:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticisms? 

message: M&S4K reads like a promotion. And the second Videos and Media link, the footnote to M&S4K and the last external link are the same. Should be changed. Vitriol 16:52, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Videos and Media"? "Music and Stories for Kwanzaa"? 

message: Lets end this stupid debate, it is not a valid claim, as all holidays have a start date, the very xmas is more fake than Kwanzaa if the word fake means what they say it means. All holidays are invented, thanksgiving the Passover at some point they enter world culture. Kwanzaa is not from the continent of Africa but it is a valid African Holiday, a New World African holiday. The founder is African and the culture is African hence it is African, not traditional but contemporary.--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 20:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kwanzaa is fake

message: All references especially negative ones need to be 100% i dont think any extreme racist people should be cited as a source on what is a traditional African holiday or not, such a source needs to come from a historical figure or someone who has some idea about African celebratory practices, A man who sums up Islam as "evil" and then attacks Kwanzaa really is not a man with a sound mental or academic character to be cited here. Bring an African academic who says it isnt African and then that is valid, because many Africans say it is valid as karenga is an Africa so Kwanzaa is African, and since an African created it is a valid African holiday, point being bring real sources not mad people or haters Jesse Lee Peterson take a look at his record he under no circumstances belongs here. See wiki policy on quality sources, haters are not allowed. he is probally just jealous of Karenga.--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 21:07, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Critic of Kwanzaa

message: Citation needed in "popularity" can be found within this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-MY8I_kwJY&eurl=
I can't edit it though because I'm a newly registered user. Anyone else? =)
Absolute141 08:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  citation in "popularity" 

message: The last paragraph in the criticism section reeks of POV. It almost sounds like the writer is on a soapbox. I'm not sure whether it is fixable or should just be deleted. And I was hoping someone could tell me where the holiday is popular. I'm from South Carolina, which has a large black commnity, and I don't know anyone who celebrates it. I recently read a quote from a black professor of African American studies in Charleston who said that he doesn't know anyone who celebrates it.
*I've removed the unsourced POV paragraph and a couple of non-notable opinions. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:17, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: Kwanzaa is fake, anyone can say this. Why? Where? How? When. Is TOny snow an African Academic, is he African American, is he an authority on African history and culture? Does he live in the "hood". Was he born in Africa? Does he speak Swhahili, is his wife African? Why is his statements on a pro-Israel site? Why didnt he make his comments on an African-American site? Who is his audience? What are his motives? What is the core of his argument? For all of these reasons he offers nothing to the comprehension of some of the issues of Kwanzaa and it should be removed forthwith. The material by the non-notibles is far more significiant and academic contribution. The memorah is a valid observation, the merit of the critic comes first. I would love to see us try and add Karenga or any AA to a Critism of the Talmud,  i dare you to try.--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 22:20, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tony Snow is a problem

message: Click here to read the article. There is almost no mention of the United Slaves criminality, and there's barely any reference to the anti-Kwanzaa points.This page is very biasedly pro-Kwanzaa. The criticism section needs to be expanded to what it once was. The Person Who Is Strange 02:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is very non-neutral. 

message: This topic is about Kwanzaa, adding POV about Karenga and attacks on Karenga are not allowed. and will be deleted,--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 07:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Please do not add remarks about karenga

message: Kwanzaa or Kwanza is how it is supposed to be spelled. This came straight from ron everett's official kwanzaa page. 69.149.185.130 18:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  You spelled it wrong. 1/1/07 

message: Does the fact that the 7 principles of Kwanzaa and the stated principles of the terrorist group S.L.A. are identical have any relevence here?
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msymbionese.html
*Not really. If you read the SLA's version, they've basically taken the seven keywords and then transposed them into their own particular warped version of revolutionary something-or-another. So as far as the Kwanzaa article is concerned, it's at most a bit of trivia -- it doesn't in any way expand upon the readers understanding or knowledge of Kwanzaa. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 08:09, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbionese Liberation Army 

message: "Karenga" does not mean "master teacher" in Swahili.  This statement, at the start of the article, appears to confuse his adopted name with the meaning of his adopted title, maulana: see Ron Karenga. Zahir Mgeni 19:24, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of "Karenga" 

message: Could someone knowledgeable please create the Karamu (feast) article? I put everything I could find, which is not much, on the disambig page for Karamu. Thanks! -- László 14:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Karamu 

message: Please read the previous debate about critic of kwanzaa before putting in extrem sources from rev so and so.--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 09:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Please read talk page for critic of kwanzaa