Talk:Dialogue Among Civilizations

message: This article needs a lot of cleanup.  In particular, some more dates and citations should be given. This is essentially a current event, so it shouldn't be too hard for someone with an interest (and of course some time on their hands) to annotate this article.... :)  Spir 06:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup, Citations Needed

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Dialamonciv.gif

message: You know, I don't know how many times that I have to say this, Tolerance44: I do not have any opinion towards you, or the Dialogue Among Civilizations idea.  You have presented no evidence that I feel any differently.  What have I written that has led you to believe that I have an "opposing view"?  Nothing.  Absolutely nothing.  Before I stumbled on this page, I hadn't even heard of the idea.  Why the baseless attacks, then?
Also, to say that I am not the Kiefer at LyricWiki is ridiculous. You have no reason to state that.   I mean, really...I just happened to come across an administrator at another wiki site that has the same user name as me, states on their user page that they are from Florida (hence the FL in my user name here, because just "Kiefer" was already taken), and I just happen to edit and fight vandalism primarily on music pages?   That's some pretty crazy bit of coincidence.  At any rate, here's proof that I am who I say I am.  Now, quit trying to attack my credibility.  Stop the conspiracy theories and paranoia.  Get back to talking about the article.  KieferFL (talk) 02:35, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for a Stop to the Personal Attacks

message: (I'm starting a new section just because the old one's gotten long, but continuing in same vein.)
First, general points:
*It's extremely obvious from the article that the writer of the article supports the idea of the Dialogue. The article in its final state needs to not leave that impression. Keep that basic goal in mind.
*It looks like you're engaging in what WP calls synthesis. That's potentially great in other contexts, but not here. Specifics about this will follow.
OK, more specific points:
#Pearl Foundation: Has anyone from the Pearl Foundation explicitly referenced the Dialogue Among Civilizations? Or vice-versa, has anyone from the Foundation for Dialog referenced the Peral Foundation? If so, you can mention that they've mentioned it in some context. If not, then you bringing it up here isn't legitimate, because it's synthesis.
#Nazis: This is the last time I'll honor the discussion of whether mentioning Nazis is appropriate, because it's not worth discussing. I could put into an article on child protective services a section on why the Aztecs sometimes thought it was a good idea to sacrifice children. That would be silly, so is including Nazis here. If Khatami or someone from the Foundation puts an emphasis on Naziism, then you can bring up what they say, but what the Nazis said doesn't matter. Including it is again synthesis, of an egregious sort.
#Length of quotes: I think this has been adequately addressed above. Long quotes are generally not encyclopedic, may have copyright problems, and give the impression of support. Make it concise, with quotes only when they really add a lot.
#Clash of Civilizations: Clash is not a response to Dialogue; Dialogue is a response to Clash. It is not clear that Huntington would disapprove of any aspect of the Dialogue. Describing why Khatami (and others?) felth the need to respond to Clash makes sense, setting up Clash as opposing the Dialogue doesn't. If Huntington does oppose the Dialogue, then he's had several years to comment on it, and any comments he has made could be used.
That's a start--it looks like two big things. You need to describe any Dialogue-promoters in a neutral way, which includes limiting the amount of article space you give to their quotes. And you need to only include material which others have identified as being related to the Dialogue. CRETOG8(t/c) 05:53, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  more on expansion 

message: Not sure how all the discussions above exactly relate to the current article contents, but this article would seem to need fewer long cut-and-pasted quotes, and more general discussion (based on suitable sources)... AnonMoos (talk) 17:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Quotes have been shortened.Tolerance44 (talk) 07:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Long quotes

message: Although the relationship between the Pearl Foundation and the Dialog theory is somewhat clear, due to the objection of one of the editors above, the explicit permission to include the the Pearl Foundation was requested and granted by the Pearl Foundation. Tolerance44 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if that's relevant (it would be under some circumstances for getting appropriate licensing of copyrighted material, but the Pearl stuff isn't about that). If the explicit permission you received also demonstrates that there is a relevant connection, then can you provide that evidence? Preferably by something like a link to the evidence at the Pearl Foundation's web site? CRETOG8(t/c) 04:33, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: (1) The permission for the inclusion of that specific text in this article has been granted by the Foundation. (2) The Foundation believed it is relevant to the theory. I am not sure what else to say. (3) You have additionally removed another comment which was not related to the Pearl Foundation. (4) Could you please revert these deletions, and discuss it further here, if necessary. Thanks. Tolerance44 (talk) 05:27, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For the article, you need to provide evidence. Articles need to be able to refer to sources. To refer to the Pearl Foundation, you'll need some verifiable source which makes the conncetion. It preferably should material which makes the details clear--what connection do they see--so that can come directly from them rather than from you. CRETOG8(t/c) 05:37, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is from them, and I am only doing the edit. The relationship is very clear to the Foundation. That is why they granted the permission. I do not expect a news release from the Foundation, but you can verify it personally. Tolerance44 (talk) 05:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand. But you have to understand that that doesn't fit WP policies. CRETOG8(t/c) 05:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  Wikipedia policy says that the text should be verifiable. The text copied here for the Pearl Foundation is from their web site. You can visit their web site and verify that! Tolerance44 (talk) 18:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pearl Foundation 

message: Similar to other discussion--has the Parliament of the World's Religions explicitly referenced the Dialogue? If so, please provide a reference. CRETOG8(t/c) 04:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not add this comment and again it is related to the status of the article for years. There are about 10 occurrences of the word "dialogue" on the wiki page of that organization, which I assume has been there for a while. So, I would say whoever added this link had some understanding that it is relevant, and it seems that way to me as well. Tolerance44 (talk) 07:14, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's the problem--is anyone who says they support international/cross-cultural "dialogue" with a little-d connected to this capital-D Dialogue? That doesn't seem appropriate. In fact, if that's the case, then I expect we could find a quote from most national leaders of the past 50 years supporting the Dialogue before Khatami even mentioned it, and the idea becomes vacuous. If not every use of the idea of little-d dialogue is connected, then there needs to be an explicit connection so that we don't have a lot of freedom to judge what's connected or not. CRETOG8(t/c) 17:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  the organizations were changed to address this issue.Tolerance44 (talk) 18:33, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parliament of the World's Religions 

message: I removed a quote from Jorge Majfud because it wasn't clear what relevance that has to the article. It doesn't look like the article which was quoted references the Dialogue. CRETOG8(t/c) 05:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This comment was there for some years. You did not object to it previously. I am not sure why the comment seems irrelevant right now? Tolerance44 (talk) 05:43, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I only noticed now that it's unrelated.CRETOG8(t/c) 05:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Removed now.Tolerance44 (talk) 07:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jorge Majfud 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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