Talk:Massospondylus

message: I have a personal record of a species, M. carinatus or M. clarinatus. Can anyone else verify this? Ninjatacoshell 22:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: carinatus is the type species, clarinatus is a typo.  Incidentally, there are several old dubious species for Massospondylus, and a few from overambitious lumping efforts in the 1980s. J. Spencer 22:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Species? 

message: This article currently states Massospondylus was 6.1 meters long. Seebacher (2001) gives a total length of 4 m and uses this for a weight of 136 kg (300 lbs). Lambert (1993) gives a length of 5 m. Obviously, the true length is going to affect the weight. I can't use the Seebacher weight without using his length. Does anyone have a different weight estimate based on a different length, or another source on overall length? Firsfron of Ronchester 09:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Length

message: "The family name Massospondylidae was once erected for the genus" Not familiar with this use of "erect". Quick search in dictionary and in Taxonomy didn't find it. Is this a jargon use in this field, or someone's vandalism? Unimaginative Username 11:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Erect" in this case is scientifically standard usage, but "coined" means the same thing.  We get a similar but not as humorous problem with the usage of "refer" ("BMNH R5407 was referred to Massospondylidae"), which we usually change to "assign" when we catch it. I'll take care of that one. J. Spencer 14:44, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's scientifically standard, that's cool, but then I was surprised not to find this usage in the dictionary. Not worried about puns, but perhaps articles should use terms with which lay readers are familiar, unless the terms are defined or linked? Unimaginative Username 04:22, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know sometimes I slip in too much of the fancy terminology (that, and the occasional hundred-word sentence). I'm all for clarity and using more common alternatives. J. Spencer 04:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I still remember that sentence. :) Actually, I'm the culprit responsible for "erected" in this case. I didn't think it was that difficult to understand in this sense. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

text:  Unimaginative Username 04:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Erected name?

message: It bore a sharp thumb claw on each of its forefeet, used in defense or feeding. Which was used in defense or feeding, the claw or the (whole) foot? Advise, and I'll revise. Unimaginative Username 12:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Both paw and claw, but this sentence is specific to the claw. J. Spencer 14:44, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Revised to be unambiguous. Unimaginative Username 04:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Claw and feet

message: There are ? before each of the synonyms. In my Firefox browser, these may indicate a character that it doesn't recognize. What would that be? Or it could indicate doubt about whether these guys are in fact synonyms. The article appears to indicate that these names are of "little scientific value" so the logical question is whether they should be in an infobox at all. If of little value, eliminate; if considered by some scientists but not others, perhaps the text explanation suffices. It seems the infobox should be for pertinent *facts*, no? Unimaginative Username 12:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The ? are for genera that are probably but not absolutely synonyms; one point for their inclusion is that the names redirect to this article, so someone who was searching on Aristosaurus would find that name relatively near the top (in the taxobox) and know why there was a redirect.  That's the theory, at least. J. Spencer 14:44, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am opposed to removing these names. That these names are dubious, but have been assigned to Massospondylus is a fact, so they should stay in the taxobox, unless they are discussed in the lead itself (which may be going them undue weight; half of them are, after all, just a few bones). But someone who was searching for information on them would be redirected to our article here, with no other explanation why, except buried way down in the text. Readers shouldn't be confused as to why they  are redirected to another article. Firsfron of Ronchester 18:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No change. Just asking. Thanks to both for the response. Unimaginative Username 04:51, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox - synonyms

message: ...including the small theropod Megapnosaurus rhodesiensis; a species of Melanorosaurus (M. thabanensis)... In punctuating these clauses, I made the assumption that M. rhodesienses is not a species of Melanosaurus; hence, the semi-colon. If M rhod. is in fact a speicies of the following name, then the  semi-colon gets reverted to the more-lightly-separating comma. Advise. Unimaginative Username 12:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: M. rhodesiensis is indeed not a species of Melanorosaurus.  J. Spencer 14:44, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. Unimaginative Username 04:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Paleoecology

message: "A pair of antorbital fenestrae were between the eyes and the nose, which were smaller than those seen in Plateosaurus" = eyes and nose are smaller than P's. If the fenestrae were smaller, would change to "A pair of antorbital fenestrae were between the eyes and the nose, and were smaller than those seen in Plateosaurus". Confirm. Unimaginative Username (talk) 08:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The fenestrae were smaller. But since the whole skull was smaller, all the holes were smaller. Firsfron of Ronchester 17:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *"The orbit was proportionally larger in Massospondylus than in related genera such as Plateosaurus. A pair of antorbital fenestrae were between the eyes and the nose, which were smaller than those seen in Plateosaurus." The orbit was larger, (or perhaps smaller, but proportionately larger), but the eyes were smaller, correct? Either way, the thrust I get from the sentence is the comparison of fenestrae specifically. If orbit of M is larger than P, but ant.fen. of M are smaller than P., perhaps "but" should be used for contrast? ""The orbit was proportionally larger in Massospondylus than in related genera such as Plateosaurus. A pair of antorbital fenestrae were between the eyes and the nose, but were smaller than those seen in Plateosaurus." (Rest assured that only copy-geeks notice such things. No human reader will ever note the distinction.) Unimaginative Username (talk) 03:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh....hmm... the antorbital fenestra was definitely smaller. I'm not sure I can source whether the nares and orbits were proportionately smaller in Masso than in Platey, because if the skull was enlarged to the size of Platey's... Proportion throws everything off here. Firsfron of Ronchester 03:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

text: *I think what is confusing me here (doesn't take much) is that the article says that the orbit was proportionatley larger in M than in P. (M > P). Should it be "smaller than in P", or should the proportion part just be omitted? The article says that the skull of M was wider and shorter than P, but that might be due to crushing. Maybe just stick with what's known -- that the eyes, nose, and fenestrae were smaller than those of Plateosaurus (if that's accurate)? Unimaginative Username (talk) 04:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah! Here it is! Reference [7], The Dinosauria, pg 237, states that Massospondylus had a proportionately larger orbit and a deeper skull than Plateosaurus, but a shorter snout. (This is because the antorbital fenestra was smaller in Massospondylus.) The nares were smaller proportionally (at least 60% of the orbit's diameter in Plateosaurus; less than 50% in Massospondylus). Firsfron of Ronchester 05:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "The eyes, nose, and the pair of antorbital fenestrae between them were all smaller than those of Plateosaurus"? Just a suggestion -- perhaps you have a better revision. The sentence might be a good place to cite the reference you mention. Unimaginative Username (talk) 20:47, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the eyes were proportionately larger. The citation is already there: "The skull bore two pairs of temporal fenestrae, two almost-circular eye sockets, and large elliptical nares. The orbit was proportionally larger in Massospondylus than in related genera such as Plateosaurus. A pair of antorbital fenestrae were between the eyes and the nose, which were smaller than those seen in Plateosaurus. Behind the eyes was a fourth pair of holes called the infratemporal fenestrae. These holes reduced the weight of the skull and were filled with non-bony tissue in the living animal.[7]" Firsfron of Ronchester 21:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Time for this non-scientist user to withdraw for lack of knowledge. On a strictly-grammatical basis, though, the original question asked in this subsection still stands. Does "which" refer to the fenestrae, or to the eyes and nose? Unimaginative Username (talk) 05:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The antorbital fenestra, sorry. Thanks for your patience. Firsfron of Ronchester 06:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent. Do you have a preference between, "A pair of antorbital fenestrae were between the eyes and the nose, and were smaller than those seen in Plateosaurus" versus "A pair of antorbital fenestrae, smaller than those seen in Plateosaurus, were between the eyes and the nose."? Feel free to edit the article with either of these if you like one, or with any other phrasing that prevents the question from arising. Unimaginative Username (talk) 06:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've chosen the latter, thanks. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unimaginative Username (talk) 22:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Description: fenestra 

message: ...except for the single question above, which one of the editors here can handle with the criteria supplied . Moved to "ready for proofread" section at the Requests page. Since there are far too few active members of the LoCE to handle the demand for copy-edits, proofreads unfortunately may not happen for some time, if at all. I would proceed with your GA review -- it looks like a GA to me. Unimaginative Username (talk) 09:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, UI. Your work on this article has been invaluable. Firsfron of Ronchester 17:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad to be of assistance. Good luck with GA (and FA!) Will be watching the page for a little while at least, but let me know if it makes it to GA, if you don't mind. GA and FA reviews are as valuable feedback to copy-editors as they are to the article's editors. Unimaginative Username (talk) 03:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I absolutely will, UI. Firsfron of Ronchester 03:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyedit complete

message: Wow. This is a very pretty article. I can only offer a few suggestions:
*Where the Greek terms making up the dinosaur's name are given, the actual Greek should be given to the masson part to be consistent.
*There's a passing reference to how Plateosaurus is slightly more different to Massospondylus, but maybe this could be more elaborated on.
*The paleoecology section could be expanded a little. How does Massospondylus fit into this picture of the Early Jurassic? 
Other than that, it's a really well-written article that I really enjoyed reading. bibliomaniac15 05:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for reviewing the article, Bibliomaniac. I appreciate your suggestions, and will try to incorporate them into the article tomorrow. If you have other suggestions or ideas, please do not hesitate to make them. Thanks again, Firsfron of Ronchester 06:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA 

message: Have you guys seen this? Would be cool for external links, at least! Dinoguy2 (talk) 01:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a great find, Dinoguy. I'm adding it to the links section. Will take a closer look this week. The pages I looked at are impressive. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:32, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Master's project/interactive Masso web site 

message: "The skull bore two pairs of temporal fenestrae, two almost-circular eye sockets, and large elliptical nares. The orbit was proportionally larger in Massospondylus than in related genera such as Plateosaurus. A pair of antorbital fenestrae, smaller than those seen in Plateosaurus, were between the eyes and the nose. Behind the eyes was a fourth pair of holes called the lateral temporal fenestrae." However, the (nice, new) diagram caption says *five* pairs of fenestrae, not four, and this side view shows only one temporal fenestra, the lateral, whereas "two pairs of temporal fenestrae" leads one to expect another temporal fenestra in this side view. Apparently, the mandibular fenestra is the fifth, but that doesn't match with "two pairs of temporal fenestrae", unless the mandibular are regarded as one of the temporal, in which case, it's not apparent to the reader. ("Mandibular temporal fenestra"?) Unimaginative Username (talk) 05:27, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As with many vertebrate features, fenestrae came in pairs: there was one on each side of the skull when seen from a profile view. The mandible (lower jaw) had a small pair of fenestrae that were sort of filled in. I didn't mention the mandibular fenestrae because it's in the lower jaw, was pretty small, and there don't appear to be a whole lot of papers specifically the lower jaw of Massospondylus. Nonetheless, this needs some clarification in the text. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:16, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, but the text says "two" pairs of temporal fenestrae. Should this be changed to "a pair of temp. f."? Unimaginative Username (talk) 12:07, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the other pair of temporal fenestrae is (are?) on top of the skull, not visible from a profile view. They're called supratemporal fenestrae. Probably needs to be cleared up somehow though. Sheep81 (talk) 12:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lateral temporal fenestrae are also commonly called infratemporal fenestrae. The image caption is wrong too, should be six pairs (external nares, aof, orbit, stf, itf, mandibular). Sheep81 (talk) 12:17, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually the caption just says "various" so never mind. Sheep81 (talk) 12:23, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, thanks! Looking forward to the revised diagram. Question: Should the diagram be a view from 450 above, so that it captures all of the fenestra? Unimaginative Username (talk) 12:27, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Might be easier to just do a second view from the top if we want to go that far. Steve's doing a great job replicating pre-existing images, it might be asking a lot to translate that to a weird angle. Sheep81 (talk) 12:30, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could also just draw a line to where it would be and label it "supratemporal fenestra (not visible)" or something. In case you are wondering, if you see the Y-shaped bone behind the orbit, that is called the postorbital bone (creative, I know). Then right in the crook of the Y there is another bone sticking up from the top of the skull, that's the parietal bone... you can only see a bit of it, but it's actually much larger. The stf is located between the parietal and postorbital, and is also bounded by the frontal (the bone you can see at the top of the orbit) and the squamosal (the bone at the upper rear corner of the lateral temporal fenestra). Pretty soon you are gonna be able to write a thesis on the holes in this skull! Sheep81 (talk) 12:37, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I've rewritten that entire section of the paragraph, see if it makes any more sense. I'll see if Steve can do another image or adjust the current one. Sheep81 (talk) 12:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's now completely idiot-proof, because this idiot just read it and understood it completely :) The two-view diagrams help to, uhh, really paint a picture for the reader. I love it. Unimaginative Username (talk) 03:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I, too, am very happy with the final result of the diagram. I assume the caption is ok now? Firsfron of Ronchester 07:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, it's so good I added it to the temporal fenestra article! Sheep81 (talk) 22:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good to me, too. Presumably, even "zero-knowledge" readers can count to six :) Unimaginative Username (talk) 22:52, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Total fenestrae 

message: "The 6-meter-(18 ft-)long[39] carnivorous theropod Dracovenator..." Six meters rounds to twenty feet, as is done previously in the article. Is there a reason for this math -- was the specimen's length first described in feet, as 18 feet? That seems unusual in the world of science. (And wasn't "Dracovenator" a movie starring Arnold Schwarzenegger? If not, it should be :) Unimaginative Username (talk) 06:52, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it was described in meters; I'm just terrible at Math. :) -venator is a pretty common suffix for theropods: Afrovenator, Dracovenator, Neovenator, Juravenator, Microvenator, Sinovenator, Stygivenator, and (no joke) Xinjiangovenator. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:30, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Next theropod found in California (don't hold your breath) MUST be named Govenator, hahaha... Sheep81 (talk) 07:50, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Or Austria! ;) Firsfron of Ronchester 08:50, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's already a plesiosaur named Terminonatator, heh. Sheep81 (talk) 08:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a T-shirt with a picture of Ahnold and the caption "Governator" Anyway, this issue is  (until the find that California dinosaur) Unimaginative Username (talk) 12:04, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metric conversion 

message: "Prosauropods are unusual in their lack of an extensive system of pneumatic foramina, the only major group of saurischians without the widespread foramina." I was about to cut a lot of this as being redundant, but thought I'd better make sure I'm not missing something. <BR>
#"Prosauropods are unusual in their lack of an extensive system of pneumatic foramina."<BR>
#"(Prosauropods are) the only major group of saurischians without the widespread foramina."<BR>
Is the first clause saying anything that the second clause doesn't?  Being the "only" one automatically makes it "unusual". Unless there is some finer distinction, I would revise to:<BR>
"Prosauropods are the only major group of saurischians without an extensive system of pneumatic foramina." (clearly, unusual). Would this proposed revision be losing anything? Unimaginative Username (talk) 05:26, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that makes sense, UI. That way, the fact that the other saurischians had them is mentioned, along with the idea that the prosauropods did not, and a slight redundancy is eliminated. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unimaginative Username (talk) 03:29, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested revision re: foramina 

message: "The maximum width of the crown was wider than the root" <BR>
"width ... was wider" seems redundant. Changing to "The maximum width of the crown was greater than that of the root." If this is not scientifically accurate, please let me know. Unimaginative Username (talk) 03:29, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's accurate. Thanks. *slaps forehead*. I always thought I was pretty good at English: got A's all through high school and college. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:28, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's always easier to see the mote in one's neighbor's eye than the log in one's own :) Unimaginative Username (talk) 06:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tooth crown 

message: The article was copyedited as a GAC. After it passed GA, the editors nominated it for FA, received feedback, made some changes, and asked me to review it again. Have done so, including making some changes prompted by the FA reviewers. Hence the second c/e signature in the box. Unimaginative Username (talk) 04:31, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second copy-edit 

message: At the risk of being repetitious, I don't have adequate knowledge of either the subject or the project to know the accuracy of the Discovery/species/dubious division, but this latest division definitely appears sensible to the un-knowledgeable. Also has the positive side effect of breaking up a huge chunk of info-dense material into more reader-friendly bites. ("byte-sized" chunks?) Unimaginative Username (talk) 05:23, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New subsections 

message: Could someone make one for this article? It's the only featured dino without one... FunkMonk (talk) 05:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good suggestion, Funk. If no one has made one by tomorrow afternoon, I could give it a go. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Put one up on review, slightly modified from Spindler's (fixed hands, made it bipedal). Not sure if that restoration is up to snuff in other areas however. Dinoguy2 (talk) 06:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size comparison 

message: Dear Editors, I am somewhat a new commer and I have a question., The lead of the article does not cite any references., is it not strictly necessary to add citation, but anyway I see that its a featured article and its good news! Bluptr (talk) 07:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Bluptr, the lead is mearly an overview of the article, everything in the lead is cited and discussed in greater detail in the body of the article. There is no need to cite the same info twice. Cheers. Steveoc 86 (talk) 11:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the reply, I think I found what I was looking for! Bluptr (talk) 12:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  citations in intro 

message: PB666 yap 13:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Page vandalized and needs to be locked

message: I've updated the scale image so the animal looks balanced, but for some reason the thumbnail doesn't show it yet. See the updated version here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Massospondylus_scale.png FunkMonk (talk) 14:12, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the purge tip, Steveoc! FunkMonk (talk) 23:34, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thank you Steve. And Funk, and Dinoguy. The reworked and purged image looks great. Firsfron of Ronchester 04:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scale image 

message: Vasconcelos and Yates (2004) indicated that Gryponyx is distinct from Massospondylus on the basis of post cranial characters. They found Gryponyx to be a basal massospondylid, and codings for Gryponyx were published in Yates et al (2010). A redescription of  has yet to be published, but there is a decent chance it is a valid genus.
Vasconcelos and Yates, 2004. Sauropodomorph biodiversity of the upper Elliot Formation (Lower Jurassic) of Southern Africa. Geoscience Africa 2004, Abstract volume, 670.
Yates, Bonnan, Neveling, Chinsamy and Blackbeard, 2010. A new transitional sauropodomorph dinosaur from the Early Jurassic of South Africa and the evolution of sauropod feeding and quadrupedalism. Proceedings of the Royal Society B. 277(1682), 787-794.68.4.61.237 (talk) 14:50, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resurrection of Gryponyx 

message: Owen (1854) designated only the seven vertebrate (Hunterian Museum Nos. 331-337) as syntypes of Massospondylus carinatus. Other specimens listed by Owen as referrable to Massospondylus were never considered part of the syntype series, so type specimen is Hunterian Museum Nos. 331-337. The syntypes of Leptospondylus are Hunterian Museum Nos. 347 and 348, while the syntypes of Pachyspondylus are Hunterian Museum Nos. 338-346 (see Owen, 1854). 72.194.120.176 (talk) 03:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Massospondylus types 

message: Yates et. al. (2011) designated BP/1/4934 as the neotype of Massospondylus carinatus because the original syntype vertebrae are both undiagnostic and were destroyed in WW2. As pointed out by Yates et. al., the diagnostic characters for Massospondylus listed by Sues et. al. (2004) are found only in the skull and all Upper Elliot taxa synonymized with Massospondylus by Cooper (1981) (except Aristosaurus) are based only on postcranial remains and lack the diagnostic characters of Massospondylus. Thanks to the description of Aardonyx, Arcusaurus, Ignavusaurus, and 'Melanorosaurus' thabanensis, many of which are distantly related to Massospondylus (Gauffre 1993; Yates et. al. 2009, 2011; Knoll 2010), it is best to create separate pages for Aristosaurus, Dromicosaurus, Aetonyx, and Hortalotarsus until a revision of specimens assigned to Massospondylus carinatus is published.
Yates, A. M. and Barrett, P. M. 2011 (for 2010). Massospondylus carinatus Owen 1854 (Dinosauria, Sauropodomorpha): proposed conservation of usage by designation of a neotype. Palaeontologia Africana 45: 7-10.
Yates, A. M.; Bonnan, M. F.; Neveling, J.; Chinsamy, A.; Blackbeard, M. G. (2009). "A new transitional sauropodomorph dinosaur from the Early Jurassic of South Africa and the evolution of sauropod feeding and quadrupedalism". Proceedings of the Royal Society B 277 (1682): 787–794. doi:10.1098/rspb.2009.1440. PMC 2842739. 
F.-X. Gauffre, 1993, "The most recent Melanorosauridae (Saurischia, Prosauropoda), Lower Jurassic of Lesotho, with remarks on the prosauropod phylogeny", Neues Jahrbuch für Geologie und Paläontologie Monatshefte 1993(11): 648-654
Yates, Adam M.; Matthew F. Bonnan and Johann Neveling (2011). "A new basal sauropodomorph dinosaur from the Early Jurassic of South Africa". Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 31 (3): 610–625. doi:10.1080/02724634.2011.560626.
Knoll, Fabien (2010). "A primitive sauropodomorph from the upper Elliot Formation of Lesotho". Geological Magazine 147 (6): 814–829. doi:10.1017/S001675681000018X. 68.4.61.168 (talk) 22:16, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synonyms of Massospondylus 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Currently, the taxobox image is a life restoration. It is the only dinosaur-related FA which does this, with every other one using a fossil, skeletal mount, or skeletal diagram instead, because they are less speculative. The only mount in Commons is the outdated NHM one, but the restored skeleton from the Iziko Museum could be used instead. That said, it doesn't really help give an image of the animal at a glance, and could give a false first impression, with the heavily curved neck and splayed out limbs. So, what are thoughts on using it rather than the current restoration? Lusotitan 22:48, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: We really need some new photos. I would strongly argue against the inclusion of the Iziko photo or any of the NHMUK mount, because they really don't display the anatomy of Massospondylus well. If we really have to replace the life restoration, we have 3 options in my opinions, 1) use an existing photo of the skull only, 2) get me to take a straight lateral image of the skull (I have a cast on my wall), or 3) ask me nicely to make a skeletal diagram (estimated time <1 week for a simple adult). IJReid  00:11, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I definitely prefer an actual fossil over a life restoration, even though mounts are often speculative and become outdated as new information becomes available (which is clearly the case with the NHM mount). A skeletal diagram from you, IJ Reid, would be wonderful. A lateral image of the skull would also be terrific. Whichever image doesn't go into the taxobox could then be used elsewhere in the article. Firsfron of Ronchester 02:10, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Heck then I'll start on a skeletal diagram. :) will be done asap IJReid  03:28, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That's awesome. Thank you, IJ Reid. Firsfron of Ronchester 03:37, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I've figured out what to base a majority of the skeleton on (Massospondylus neotype has a skull, verts and forelimb) but it lacks a hindlimb and tail past Cd5. Any suggestions on what specimens I could use for those regions? IJReid  05:46, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Paper that may help: Cooper, M.R. (1981) "The prosauropod dinosaur Massospondylus carinatus Owen from Zimbabwe: its biology, mode of life and phylogenetic significance." Doesn't seem to be available on the web. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 06:42, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Some measurements here:  Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 06:42, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Yes, I remember seeing Massospondylus stuff when I went there a few years back. Not sure I have any good photos of that, though. Lusotitan 10:23, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm kindof a country away from the ROM (far more than a single country for you europeans), but last time I went there I remember the presence of a large sauropodomorph I took photos of. It may have been Plateosaurus, maybe it was Massospondylus. I'll have a look to see what I can find. IJReid  13:57, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Lucky reminding me, I have photos on my computer from then (2 of the skeleton, 2 of the baby). We can probably use these in place of some inaccurate photos. IJReid  14:30, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Aw damn, I'm thinking that the skeletons are Plateosaurus, not Massospondylus. The plaques don't give any help, but the skull looks odd for Massospondylus. IJReid  14:37, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, Victoria Arbour labels it Plateosaurus on her blog: Perhaps that other skeleton was just there temporarily too? FunkMonk (talk) 15:37, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

text: I managed to locate an image of the skeleton that was able to be used here, it is a little blurry at full resolution but it work fine for a thumbnail display I think. IJReid  18:29, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: An improvement, at the very least. Looking again, I can't help but notice that the individual in the size diagram is rather gangly and roughly drawn... Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 18:39, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not too shabby, but I think it could be improved by cropping and contrast/colour correction. FunkMonk (talk) 18:50, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

text: Nice, it is pretty easy with Adobe reader, if you have that. Just click on an image with the mouse arrow, copy, and paste in Photoshop or similar. FunkMonk (talk) 23:20, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's the issue there. I don't have Adobe Reader. But I can try with what I've got. IJReid  14:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would work with any pdf reader. As long as you can click on an image and copy paste it, it should work. FunkMonk (talk) 14:57, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Between Preview and GIMP, it's not allowing me to extract the figures from the PDF. IJReid  23:02, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taxobox Image 

message: Since the postcranial description of the neotype is published, I am happy to inform everyone it is CC-BY 4.0 and we can use its images of the neotype and postcranial bones in the article. I'm not very good at extracting images from PDFs, never got the hang of it, so if someone else is available, we should probably take this chance and find what's usable and what isn't. The article is available here IJReid  22:45, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice, it is pretty easy with Adobe reader, if you have that. Just click on an image with the mouse arrow, copy, and paste in Photoshop or similar. FunkMonk (talk) 23:20, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's the issue there. I don't have Adobe Reader. But I can try with what I've got. IJReid  14:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would work with any pdf reader. As long as you can click on an image and copy paste it, it should work. FunkMonk (talk) 14:57, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Between Preview and GIMP, it's not allowing me to extract the figures from the PDF. IJReid  23:02, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Followup