Talk:Myofascial trigger point

message: I would also like to see the use of Massage Therapy explained in the treatment of Trigger Points. Considering that Physio/ Physical therapy was mentioned as a knowledgeable profession on the matter, it is glaringly absent in the treatment techniques. Instead, other more aggressive and invasive solutions are expounded first. Massage Therapy, whether provided by a Chiropractor, Physio/ Physical or Massage Therapist is most often the first point of call when dealing with Trigger Points. This omission detracts from the credibility of the article. -- Chops A Must 00:49, 1 March 2006
:I wholeheartedly agree. As a PT I often deal with trigger points and referred pain problems using massage  Skeptic Ring] - Ringmaster
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-- Fyslee 15:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: PTs and trigger point treatment

message: When I massage my friends' shoulders I feel bumps with my fingers that I (and they) call 'knots'. a brief search of the internet suggests to me that they're actually called trigger points. Maybe that's something different from what this article is about. But I'd like to learn more about what they are, and what the effect of massaging them is.
::Many things can cause knots- usually TrP's or some forms of trauma. Check out http://www.svacina.com/triggerpoints.html
::Remember- it you press too little, too much, too short or too long, you may aggravate it. Sometimes a routine swedish massage aggravates TrP's. You can look up ABMP or other associations to find a massage practitioner or go to a Physical Therapist to try it. . Psnack 10:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: knots

message: Fyslee I'm surprised at your edits on this occasion. The claim is part of the propaganda by the proponents. If you want it in you'll have to make this clear. The other editorialising about the education of physiotherapists etc falls into the same trap. We could easily say for the blue cheese pseudoscience(PS) that physiotherapists haven't been exposed to the moon is blue cheese theory as some sort of put down of the mainstream and some sort of twisted logic justification for the PS belief.
I also wanted to alert editors on this page that I edit many PS articles and am keen to discuss and reach consensus. Please see my statement about this on [[[User:Mccready my userpage]].Mccready 01:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Not understood claim - monthly statement

message: Hi Kevin, I noticed you cited Gerwin (incorrectly as Gerwina), but only his summary of previous negative research, and not his own positive findings.  I'm including the latter.  It wouldn't have been difficult for you to do so.  Consider this facet of NPOV.
You questioned Simon in an edit summary - please give a more valid reason than the twitching of your PS antenna.  He's cited with NPOV wording, the source is peer-reviewed and you can check his references and Pubmed for quite a bit of research along the lines he's discussing. -Jim Butler 23:17, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dense re Gerwin; Simon as source 

message: Hey guys, just working my way through and made some intro changes to make this subject more encyclopedic.  It would be nice if there were some citations.  I am concerned about the self treatment section that "sells" the book.  Also concerned about the section on treatment without references.  Not saying it is wrong, but as a matter of responsibility, it sounds like Wikipedia is making an attempt at being a Merck Manual.  Could get dicey if someone gets hurt following Wiki advice on any treatment protocol.  We should leave this to the professionals. Otherwise, it is a very informative and interesting article.  Good work! --Dematt 15:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did some work on the intro, but the second paragraph seems out of place.  Does anyone have a problem with moving it into the theories section and using the second parargraph to describe who treats TP and why TP's are treated instead, then work into that third paragraph that explains what little controversy there is? --Dematt 18:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro 

message: I trained as a Massage Therapist and studied trigger points at length. This article reads (to me) like a compilation of essays I wrote about the subject. It sould be that I'm a little too close to the subject material so I am asking for other opinions. Naysie 13:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What the hell are you on about? 81.144.199.2 (talk) 20:09, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Essay

message: is this science or is this magic?  I can't make heads or tails of the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.11.74.112 (talk) 17:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  is this science? 

message: I'm starting to wonder if there aren't two different things we call "trigger points":
# Travell's "tumor or band"-based, twitch-response trigger points
# Fibromyalgia's "allodynic site" trigger points
I haven't seen any sources that acknowledge both types, but they all seem to assume one and be ignorant of the other.  Type #1 aren't, I think, sensitive to light pressure; type #2 don't sound like they're palpable, lippery, taut or twitchy.  They're different phenomena with the same name.
Am I right about this?  Maybe someone who knows more can find some references.  I've just come from a rather confused neuromuscular specialist, who only knew of type #2... JayLevitt 15:52, January 12, 2009 (UTC)
: Answer:
: I think the confusion is "tender points" vs. "trigger points" - the tender points are a set of 9 points used for diagnosis of Fibromyalgia (see http://arthritis.about.com/od/fibromyalgia/g/tenderpoints.htm), where as trigger points cause characteristic pain referral patterns.  There does seem to be an overlap with some of the "tender point" locations and the common locations of trigger points, which may be partly where the confusion arises.  I personally don't believe using the "tender point locations" as the only diagnostic criteria for Fibromyalgia is that useful, as many conditions can cause widespread tenderness.  
: Valerie DeLaune, LAc   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alpinewoman (talk • contribs) 06:36, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is bound to be some overlap between tender points, trigger points, and acupuncture points, but coincidental overlap doesn't justify equating them. In some cases there are bound to be some points discovered through experience. While the first two will have some biomedical/histological basis, and if an acupuncture point corresponds to one of the first two, a biomedical explanation may exist. Acupuncture points have no consistently reproducible histological basis since they are a metaphysical construct from ancient times. As Felix Mann, founder and past-president of the Medical Acupuncture Society (1959–1980) and the first president of the British Medical Acupuncture Society put it: "...acupuncture points are no more real than the black spots that a drunkard sees in front of his eyes." There is some poor quality research published in poor quality journals which is used to make a connection, but again, coincidental overlap doesn't justify equating them. This is a typical pseudoscientific attempt to use the trappings of science to boost the reputation of unknown or dubious matters. -- Brangifer (talk) 00:20, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trigger point vs. trigger point 

message: I move that the article be moved to specify "myofascial" trigger points for 2 reasons.  First, Trevell herself described trigger points with "myofascial" qualification. Second, I think the aforementioned confusion between tender/trigger points would be allayed by adding the descriptive term. Dr G (talk) 17:57, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaming to "Myofascial trigger points" 

message: * The local twitch response is not the same as a muscle spasm. This is because a muscle spasm refers to the entire muscle contracting whereas the local twitch response also refers to the entire muscle but only involves a small twitch, no contraction.
* Often a twitch response can be felt in the muscle by running your finger perpendicular to the muscle's direction; this twitch response often activates the "all or nothing" response in a muscle that causes it to contract.
One of these things is not like the other.  Either there's no contraction (in which case, how does the muscle move enough for the twitch to be felt?) or there's a contraction (perhaps just a small one, not just an "all or nothing" response).  WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:41, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Self-contradiction 

message: "osteopathic practitioners" are cited among groups of people who more commonly formally accept myofascial "knots" as an identifiable source of pain, but the term has the first word linked to osteopathy (which the article itself puts as pseudoscience) and the second to Osteopathic medicine in the United States, whose article states it refers to "a branch of the medical profession in the United States that promotes the practice of science-based medicine, often referred to in this context as allopathic medicine." The osteopathy article even has a disambiguation line preceding its introduction, so its rather questionable to fuse both groups in the term, if them both agree on this point, it's better to be made more explicit, that both groups do have this agreement, without conflating them as a group. 45.234.133.207 (talk) 17:34, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  ambiguous/contradictory links in a sentence/term