Talk:No. 164 Squadron RAF

message: Hi, apologies for the language of these being spanish, but I believe that they satisfy the criteria for "reliable sources" required by Wikipedia Verifiability policy and related guidelines.  I'm including below additional information about these books and newspaper articles (links) that is not allowed by the templates used (at least, in the version I've used!):
===Books===
* "Alas de Trueno" 2º Edition  
: Author: Claudio Meunier 
: Ilustrations: Carlos A. Garcia 
: Edited: 2005
: Publisher: not available
: Foreword by Pierre Clostermann
More info (including summary and cover) at http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/publicaciones/alas2.php (in spanish)
 
* "Nacidos con Honor"
: Autor: Claudio Meunier 
: Edited: 2007
: Publisher: Grupo Abierto, Buenos Aires
More info (including summary and cover) at http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/publicaciones/nacidos.php  (in spanish)
The author's website (home: http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/home/index.php in spanish) has a wealth of information, including pictures and profiles of several ariplanes flown by argentinian volunteer pilots (see some at: http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/galerias/perfiles.php)
===Links===
Just a couple of (online) articles related to the surviving Argentinian RAF/RCAF volunteers in the Argentine newspaper "Clarín" (both retrieved on 04-09-2008):
* Los argentinos que pelearon en la Segunda Guerra, Clarin, 07.08.2005 Interview to 4 surviving anglo-argentinian volunteers.
* Condecoran a aviadores argentinos que pelearon en la II Guerra para Gran Bretaña, Clarin, 08.04.2005 Report about the ceremony at St. Clement Danes church, remembering the 3000 argentines (including 600 pilots) that fought in WW2 on the allied side.
Regards, DPdH (talk) 01:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Info about the Books and Articles I've included in the article 

message: Just a couple of (online) articles related to the surviving Argentinian RAF/RCAF volunteers in the Argentine newspaper "Clarín" (both retrieved on 04-09-2008):
* Los argentinos que pelearon en la Segunda Guerra, Clarin, 07.08.2005 Interview to 4 surviving anglo-argentinian volunteers.
* Condecoran a aviadores argentinos que pelearon en la II Guerra para Gran Bretaña, Clarin, 08.04.2005 Report about the ceremony at St. Clement Danes church, remembering the 3000 argentines (including 600 pilots) that fought in WW2 on the allied side.
Regards, DPdH (talk) 01:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Links

message: See Fellowship of the Bellows.
:::"http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/presentation-spitfires.html/2"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.33.192.150 (talk) 13:25, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: And a 3rd: No.692 Sq. "Fellowship of the Bellows".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.47.97.15 (talk) 10:37, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  A 2nd Argentine donation squadron: No.263 Squadron"Fellowship of the Bellows-Argentine" 

message: Including killed in action, killed in flying accident and prisoners of war.
:::From Argentine: 1.David B. Bridger.
:::Non-Argentine: 1.Peter L. Bateman-Jones (BRITISH), 2.Desmond P. Mc Keown (promoted to the rank of RAF Flying Officer on 1st November 1934, BRITISH nationality), 3.John M. Bryan (BRITISH, born in South Norwood, South London, in 1922; he was Wing Commander and led no. 164 squadron when he was shot down), 4.Ian D. Waddy (NEW ZEALANDER, prisoner of war), 5.Humphrey A.B. Russell (BRITISH, prisoner of war), 6.George R. Trafford (Gisborne, Auckland, NEW ZEALANDER), 7.James B. Teather (BRITISH, born in Sheffield in 1922), 8.Francis H. Dennison (Grand Pre, Nova Scotia, CANADIAN), 9.Ian A. Young (CANADIAN, prisoner of war), 10.Bruce A. Schaefer (AUSTRALIAN), 11.Alfred E. Roberts (AUSTRALIAN)(his address before going to the war: 203 Page Street, Middle Park, Victoria, Australia), 12.Douglas W. McCulloch (AUSTRALIAN), 13.Norman L. Merrett (AUSTRALIAN), 14.George M. Fisher (BRITISH, from Scotland), 15. George D. Fowell (BRITISH), 16.Arthur E. Napier (BRITISH), 17.Ronald A.E. White (BRITISH, from Tilbury, Essex, 1923) and 18.Ian A.S. Moore (BRITISH). To be confirmed: Hammond-Hunt, Jones, Wilson and Lawston (Note: these 4 pilots seem to have had forced landings in April 1945 in Germany, either after being hit by enemy flak or due to an engine failure; Hammond-Hunt in Kluis and the balance near Neumunster, but all of them seem to have survived_"https://home.kpn.nl/been0319/stories6.html")).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.47.97.15 (talk) 12:16, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: A pilot from No. 164 Squadron who survived to the war but died in a plane crash in Canada in 1946: Lawrence Victor Kirsch, from Yorkton, Saskatchewan, Canada.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.47.97.15 (talk) 12:16, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  FLying Officer W.T. Lawton was hit on 27 April 1945 and baled out, badly burnt. Prisoner of war for a few days.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.38.133.156 (talk) 12:01, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparison: Argentine and non-Argentine losses of No. 164 Squadron in 1942-1945 

message: P. Bateman-Jones, A. Hammond-Hunt, D. Pattison. M. Love, P.T. Eagar. C.L. Mouzon (Belgian), W.M. Baggs (Canadian), B.E. Hooper. H. Bletcher, K.F. Morse, J.R.K. Blok (most likely a misspelling of J.R.K. Black), J.P Weatherly, S.C. Piddan (most likely a misspelling of S.C. Pigden), A.R. Costello, G.M.O. Nossin (Belgian), C. H. Tanner, J.R.K. Black (on 13 October 1951 he was the organizer of a gathering of ex-members of 164 Sqn, and his address was 13 Hampden Road, Harrow Weald, Middlesex), S.C. Pigden, C.E. Rowland, N. Lowe (same as Love?), & W. Thomas.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.5.145.200 (talk) 11:35, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: A query: Could A.R. Costello of 164 Sq. in 1945 be Alfred Reuben Costello, 33 Sq. in 1940 and 112 Shark Sq. in 1941-42? 2 Italian biplanes shot down in 1940, plus one shared. Or is he a different pilot with the same initials and surname?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.38.133.156 (talk) 11:00, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Other: C.L Mouzon (Charles Léopold Mouzon, I presume) and Léopold Isaïe Charles Mouzon (1920-2018) were the same individual?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.10.6.4 (talk) 12:22, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Modern canvass of 164 Squadron's Typhoons  posed to strafe German positions in support of the 5th SAS Regiment (Belgian) in April 1945_"http://www.davidrowlands.co.uk/gallery/gal_detail.asp?varPaintCode=797"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.5.145.200 (talk) 10:47, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pilots of No. 164 Squadron, March 1945 

message: No problem in pointing out something obvious: the "China British" squadron  was a donation squadron presented by the British residents in China. The title "China British" didn't refer to the nationality of the pilots. But if I try to explain that No. 164 Squadron RAF "Argentine British" was a donation squadron presented by the British residents in Argentina, it's a drama. Any attempt to explain it is edited out at short notice.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.38.133.156 (talk) 10:13, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[No. 247 Squadron RAF]] ''China British'' 

message: This fighter pilot from New Zealand officially was in 164 RAF Squadron in 1942. But the timing perhaps makes no much sense: he was killed in action over Malta with 1435 Squadron (former 1435 Flight) on 30 July 1942, and 164 Squadron was activated in April 1942.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.10.6.4 (talk) 10:46, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Officially Wood was in 164 squadron on 14 April 1942. That means that he was part of the first batch of pilots of the 164 squadron in Scotland. No idea when and why he ended up in 1435 Squadron on Malta, where he was killed in action.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.10.6.4 (talk) 11:57, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: C.L. Wood  arrived to Malta on 9 June 1942 as part of  Operation 'Salient', aircraft carrier HMS 'Eagle', 32 Spitfires launched: (NZ412780) Sgt. Colin Lethbridge Wood_164/1435 Sqns. Incidentally, one of those 32 fighter pilots was Argentine (and a fighter ace): (112709)F/O Kenneth Langley Charney_91/185 Sqns, Argentine._"https://rafovermalta.blogspot.com/2015/01/geoffrey-wellum.html".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.10.6.4 (talk) 12:11, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colin Lethbridge Wood? 

message: Herbert Annesley Brownrigg. He appears on the list of Argentine personnel in the RAF in WW2. In 164 Squadron in May 1944 (transferred to a different squadron on 1 June 1944). The problem is that I'm unable to find his relationship with Argentina (migrated there in the interwar period?). I might say he was related to the architect John Brownrigg (same surname, same middle name) and to the firm Annesley Harold Brownrigg FRIBA Architect, being John his brother and Harold his father. 'Bertie' is buried in England.
:::According to the Australian War Memorial, Bertie Brownrigg was born in Buenos Aires in c.1915 (he was 29 in 1944): "https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C277553". Who was then the Bertie Brownrigg born in 1919? Two RAF pilots with the same name?
:Not sure it is relevant to this article but Herbert Annesley Brownrigg was born on 25 December 1914 and died in Worthing, Sussex on 9 March 1999. Also a 17-year old "Herbert Brownrigg" who on 4 February 1932 left Southampton on the "Alcantara" for Buenos Aires, residence given as Argentina. A 36-year old "Herbert Brownrigg" who on the 11 September 1951 left London on the "Highland Princess" for Buenos Aires residence given as "Great Britain". Doesnt appear to have been born in England or Wales. MilborneOne (talk) 16:09, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: October 1944 - "Following their wedding at a London Register Office earlier in the year, a religious ceremony was conducted ... Grayshott, last week between Miss Rosanne Hunter, youngest daughter of Mr and Mrs H S Hunter of The Little Wood, Headley Down, and Flight Lieut Herbert Annesley Brownrigg youngest son of the late Mr, Annesley Brownrigg of Buenos Ayres." "The bridegroom is the youngest of five brothers, four of whom are serving on the various fighting fronts." MilborneOne (talk) 16:52, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Herbert A. Brownrigg (''Bertie'') (1919-1999) 

message: If people want to believe in Meunier's fairy tales, it's not my problem. I've given up. Enough is enough. But: 1)There were hardly Argentines in 164 Squadron. It's a fact. And Meunier knows it. 2)The squadron's crest, motto and title were granted late in 1942 rather than in April 1942 A ceremony in September 1942.
3)The pictures of RAF & FAA warplanes displaying the Patorozú cartoon belong to other squadrons (the 60, for instance, whose Squadron Leader was British-Argentine). 85.84.59.173 (talk) 23:36, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  I have no intention of deleting the edit in December 2022