Talk:Memphis Mafia

message: I don't know what should be wrong with this article. The members of the Memphis Mafia themselves confirm most details on their own website:  Onefortyone 01:03, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: untitled

message: I've protected this article, as there's lots of reverting going on but no discussion. Try discussing your changes and if you can't convince each other, take it to RfC. Once you've agreed, let me know or post a request for unprotection. --fvw<SMALL>*</SMALL> 23:42, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
RfC may be the only way. Wyss 23:56, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not think that the page should remain protected. Signifantly, Wyss and Ted Wilkes have not discussed the quotes above which prove that there are several critical voices concerning the guys around Elvis. Even Elvis's platonic girlfriend, Judy Spreckels stated that she did not belong to the "Yes Men" around the singer: "I had nothing to do with being a yes man for him and obviously he trusted me." Onefortyone 20:27, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said... (sigh). Wyss 20:49, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand. Is this directed at me? Have I been hostile or defiant? Wyss 21:25, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Your reverting, deleting and denigrating tactics may well support this view. Onefortyone 22:14, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: I did some further research on Elvis and the men from the Memphis Mafia. 
*In his book, Careless Love: The Unmaking of Elvis Presley, reputed Elvis biographer Peter Guralnick says about Elvis and the guys from the Memphis Mafia,
:Every night they went to the shows, Elvis and his guys, dressed identically in their dark glasses and dark mohair suits. The Colonel joked that they looked like a bunch of old men, but the Memphis Mafia had become almost as well known around town as Frank Sinatra's Rat Pack. They were living on speed and tranqs; for Joe [Esposito], who liked to portray himself to Elvis as Broadway Joe, a sophisticated man-about-town, "it was a party like you wouldn't believe. Go to a different show every night, then pick up a bunch of women afterwards, go party the next night. Go to the lounges, see Fats Domino, Della Reese, Jackie Wilson, the Four Aces, the Dominoes - all the old acts. We'd stay there and never sleep, we were all taking pills just so we could keep up with each other." (p. 116)
*In his book, Elvis: The Last 254 Hours, Albert Goldman says that the guys from the Memphis Mafia recall that Elvis's LA parties amounted to nothing more than everybody observing Elvis watch TV, with everyone laughing at every stupid thing he said. 
*In their book, Up and Down with Elvis Presley, Marge Crumbaker and Gabe Tucker relate several bad tales about Elvis' cruelty, such as when he had an old Memphis flame strip for him--and then turned her over to the Memphis Mafia to provide sexual favors. 
I hope that these sources indeed prove that there were several "yes men" among these guys, that they consumed drugs, spent the whole night together, etc. Onefortyone 13:16, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional sources

message: According to a recent Playboy article by Byron Raphael and Alanna Nash, entitled "In Bed With Elvis" (November 2005), Natalie Wood "was not the only one to think Elvis and the guys might be homosexual, especially since Elvis often wore pancake makeup and mascara offstage to accentuate his brooding intensity, a la Tony Curtis and Rudolph Valentino, his favorite movie actors." This quote may be included in the Wikipedia article. Onefortyone 23:31, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This source is fully in line with Bill Dakota's account that Elvis had sex with some members of the Memphis Mafia. Dakota, who worked for Elvis's friend Nick Adams, says, "A companion of Elvis's (when this article was first written), told me that all of those so called cousins that surrounded and traveled with him, weren't all cousins. Some were alleged to have taken turns sleeping with him. And when someone, in print, alleged that Nick slept in bed with Elvis at Graceland, it was said to the press or the writer, that Elvis had a cot brought into the bedroom and that Nick slept on that. Elvis's bed was big enough for a 'dozen people.' " See . Onefortyone 04:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your continuous addition to nearly all Elvis Presley related articles that he was homosexual has already been heavily questioned, yet you continue in your quest to place them where you think you can get away with it. As said above, these comments are slanderous gossip, NOT encyclopaedic. For every one person that claims Presley had some sort of a homosexual bone in his body, there are many more who deny it. Also, a LOT of your input has been found in the past to be plagiarised from other websites, including quotes, sentences and full paragraphs. It seems that much of your input is copied from elsewhere, and you continually use full quotes. Wikipedia is about original writing. If you are unable to do that without quote after quote, you shouldn't be working on it. Unless you want a potential law suit arriving through your letterbox some time soon, I would advise you to stop insisting that Presley was homosexual, or bisexual, or obsessed with shagging his mother! ElvisFan1981 (talk) 07:58, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Claims that Elvis and the men from the Memphis Mafia might be homosexual

message: User:Onefortyone violated his Wikipedia:Probation and reinserted links to a website that his Wikipedia Mentor User:FCYTravis said was improper. As well, he inserted a link to a personal website in contravention of Wikipedia sources policy. 
:Sorry, Ted, I did not violate my probation. Significantly, the two external links to websites you have inserted are also links to personal websites. You should read the Wikipedia page on double standard. To my mind, you simply do not like the content of some websites concerning the Memphis Mafia because this content is not in line with your personal opinion. I would call this POV. I have not removed the links you have included. 
:You should also remember, Ted, what the arbcom says about your behavior:
===Ted Wilkes and Wyss's view of the standard of editing===
:Ted Wilkes and Wyss have repeatedly insisted on an unrealistic standard with respect to negative information regarding celebrities that is current in popular culture, gossip and rumor Talk:James Dean#Removal of "Rumors" section  and Talk:Nick Adams#Rumors, gossip or speculation contravene official Wikipedia policy
::Support:
::# Fred Bauder 14:03, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: # ➥the Epopt 14:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: # James F. (talk) 22:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

text: # Jayjg (talk) 19:20, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

text: # Mindspillage (spill yours?) 04:16, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

text: # Raul654 19:49, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

text: #Neutralitytalk 21:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

text: The arbcom also says that "Ted Wilkes and Wyss are banned from making any edit related to a person's alleged homosexuality or bisexuality." Both editors are placed on probation: "If in the opinion of any three administrators, for good cause, he is responsible for disrupting the functioning of Wikipedia, restrictions may be placed on his editing, up to and including a general ban of one year." See . In my opinion, you may have violated your probation here, as you seem to continue edit warring with me. Onefortyone 03:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Sorry, Ted, Alanna Nash is co-author of this article. Significantly, it is clearly said that there were rumors during Elvis's lifetime that Elvis and the guys, i.e. the members of the Memphis Mafia, might be homosexual. I have now included the full quote about Elvis's alleged homosexuality. Onefortyone 03:07, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Violations of probation?

message: :Ted Wilkes and Wyss have repeatedly insisted on an unrealistic standard with respect to negative information regarding celebrities that is current in popular culture, gossip and rumor Talk:James Dean#Removal of "Rumors" section  and Talk:Nick Adams#Rumors, gossip or speculation contravene official Wikipedia policy
::Support:
::# Fred Bauder 14:03, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: # ➥the Epopt 14:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: # James F. (talk) 22:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

text: # Jayjg (talk) 19:20, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

text: # Mindspillage (spill yours?) 04:16, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

text: # Raul654 19:49, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

text: #Neutralitytalk 21:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

text: The arbcom also says that "Ted Wilkes and Wyss are banned from making any edit related to a person's alleged homosexuality or bisexuality." Both editors are placed on probation: "If in the opinion of any three administrators, for good cause, he is responsible for disrupting the functioning of Wikipedia, restrictions may be placed on his editing, up to and including a general ban of one year." See . In my opinion, you may have violated your probation here, as you seem to continue edit warring with me. Onefortyone 03:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Sorry, Ted, Alanna Nash is co-author of this article. Significantly, it is clearly said that there were rumors during Elvis's lifetime that Elvis and the guys, i.e. the members of the Memphis Mafia, might be homosexual. I have now included the full quote about Elvis's alleged homosexuality. Onefortyone 03:07, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ted Wilkes and Wyss's view of the standard of editing

message: I removed the following as the quotes are deliberately taken out of context to promote User:Onefortyone's agenda for which he was placed on probation. The entire article presents a completely different picture than what is falsely portrayed here.
*In a 2005 Playboy magazine article, Byron Raphael, a one-time assistant to Presley's manager Colonel Tom Parker claims he worked for Elvis in 1956-57 and he procured countless girls to climb into bed with the star, including well-known movie stars. Raphael also claimed that actress Natalie Wood was upset when Presley refused to have intercourse with her and made a snide remark to members of the Memphis Mafia. Raphael made the unsubstantiated claim that Wood "was not the only one to think Elvis and the guys might be homosexual, especially since Elvis often wore pancake makeup and mascara offstage to accentuate his brooding intensity, a la Tony Curtis and Rudolph Valentino, his favorite movie actors. There were also rumors that Nick Adams swung both ways, just as there had been about Adams’s good pal (and Elvis’s idol) James Dean. Tongues wagged that Elvis and Adams were getting it on. But Elvis was frightened of homosexuals; the Colonel had told him to be on the lookout for them in Hollywood. He was even scared of Lizabeth Scott, the icy blonde who played romantic scenes with him in 1957’s Loving You, since Confidential magazine had recently outed her as a lesbian with a busy little black book."  
- Ted Wilkes 18:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Ted, the paragraph you have deleted includes direct quotes from the Playboy article. You cannot deny that, as a whole, the article questions the common view that Elvis was a womanizer. The authors say that "the so-called dangerous rock-and-roll idol was anything but a despotic ruler in the bedroom" and "really wasn’t all that keen on doing the wild thing. He was far more interested in heavy petting and panting and groaning" and "he would never put himself inside one of these girls. Within minutes he’d be asleep." It should also be noted that Priscilla Presley, in her book, Elvis and Me, relates that Elvis told her that he didn't make love to Anita Wood the whole four years he went with her. In her book, Child Bride, Suzanne Finstad also confirms that Elvis hated sex. These are the published facts. Onefortyone 05:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deliberate distortions by User on probation, Onefortyone

message: To: User:Onefortyone - Anita Wood is a Pentecostal and an active member who teaches in her church. She adheres to her Church doctrine that states that  "pre-marital sex is a sin." Do not, under any circumstanxces, make fun or denegrate people's religious beliefs be they Cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad or the teaching of the Pentecostal, Baptist, Methodist, and numerous other major world religions. - Ted Wilkes 14:38, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Truth be told, Ted, I do not think that I made fun or denigrated people's religious beliefs, as you falsely claim. In her book Elvis and Me, Priscilla Presley relates that Elvis told her that he didn't make love to Anita Wood the whole four years he went with her. "Just to a point," he said. "Then I stopped. It was difficult for her too, but that's just how I feel." So it seems as if Anita Wood wanted more. Onefortyone 15:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Making fun and denegrating Religious beliefs

message: User:Onefortyone inserted copyrighted material as he stated above: "direct quotes from the Playboy article". - 14:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Contributions to Wikipedia articles are expected to provide citations to secondary sources which support the edit. This permits readers to put the claims to a better test by consulting the cited work. In principle, citation implies that there are other editors who may expand and improve the article in question. Therefore, short quotes from diverse sources are very helpful. You seem to be the only person who frequently deletes such quotes, if they do not support your personal opinion. Onefortyone 15:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NOTICE: [[Wikipedia:Copyright problems]]

message: I think that the following paragraph includes some interesting eye-witness accounts concerning the Memphis Mafia: 
:A 2005 Playboy magazine article by Byron Raphael and Alanna Nash relates that Raphael, an assistant to Presley's manager Colonel Tom Parker, worked for Elvis in 1956-57 and procured several girls to climb into bed with the star, including some well-known movie stars. This was also one of the tasks of the men from the Memphis Mafia, as many girls wanted to get in close touch with the star. On p.172 of her memoir, Breathing Out (2005), model and actress Peggy Lipton writes that Elvis "was virtually impotent" and that she felt trapped in his bed as she "couldn't just amble out into the next room to get a breath because all his guys were in the front of the suite gearing up for show time. I could hear their piercing laughter and loud voices against the background of the blaring TV." According to Raphael's eye-witness account, actress Natalie Wood was upset when Presley refused to have sexual intercourse with her. She made a snide remark to the members of the Memphis Mafia that she "was not the only one to think Elvis and the guys might be homosexual, especially since Elvis often wore pancake makeup and mascara offstage to accentuate his brooding intensity ..." The authors add that "tongues wagged" that Elvis and his best friend Nick Adams "were getting it on."
It is clearly shown that one of the tasks of the men around Elvis was to procure girls for the singer. Peggy Lipton relates that Elvis and the guys from the Memphis Mafia were living close together. There can be no doubt that they were the singer's intimite friends and even around Elvis when he tried to make love to a girl in his bed. Natalie Wood's remark is not unimportant in this context, as she and some other people were thinking that the guys around Presley were homosexual. This was not mentioned before in the article. Onefortyone 01:16, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This clearly shows that Playboy printed an article by one ex-mafioso in which he claims that he procured girls. In the passage, Lipton relates that the mafiosi were close by, not that they lived there. They were in the next room. Homosexuality seems to be a red herring, though it's one that you seem particularly fond of. If some article in Playboy says that "tongues wagged" that such and such, this is not encyclopedic. Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia, Onefortyone. It's not WikiHollywoodBabylon. However, the software is freely available, and anyone is welcome to fork off and create his or her own WikiHollywoodBabylon, full of tittle-tattle about celebs great and small "getting it on". -- Hoary 14:44, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have quoted what is written in two independent, and published, sources. Alanna Nash, co-author of the article entitled "In Bed with Elvis", which appeared in November 2005 in Vol. 52, Iss. 11, of Playboy, p.64-68, 76, 140, is a reputed Presley biographer and certainly a reliable source. The content of a Wikipedia article should be based on such material, not on your personal agenda to remove content which is not in line with your personal view. As you can see, I have now also added the exact page numbers to my quotes from Guralnick, Humphries, and Capeci. Several other passages were included by User:Ted Wilkes who didn't cite his sources. However, I do not think that all this material should be removed from the article. Onefortyone 16:41, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to look at what you've done, because you generally don't bother to write edit summaries. So, The content of a Wikipedia article should be based on such material: you mean sensational articles ("In Bed with Elvis"!) in monthly magazines about peripheral aspects of celebrities. I see. (i) What's the significance to his music (or even his crap films, or to anything else) of who and how Presley had sex with? (ii) Do you have any interest in the goal of concision, or do you think one should shovel in as large a quantity of this "material" as possible? -- Hoary 23:39, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we can work out the dispute and find a compromise. The content of the article should be based on material written in published sources, particularly books and articles written by Elvis biographers. In my opinion, it is not unimportant what has been written in the Playboy article. The authors clearly say that there were claims by different people during Presley's lifetime that Elvis and the Memphis Mafia might have been homosexual. This was not mentioned before and is worth a short notice at the end of the Wikipedia article, perhaps in a rumors or trivia section if you like. The Lipton quote shows that the Memphis Mafia members were close by even when Elvis was in bed with a woman. I have now also rearranged the relationships section of the Elvis Presley article, adding some further material. I think that the life of a singer and his personal relationships are equally important as the music sections in a biographical article. Onefortyone 20:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This paragraph should not be deleted

message: Reformatted article for summary style, reorganized information for flow. Took out trivia as that is looked down upon for 'good' article and there is wikiquote among other resources where trivia would go. More work needs to be done with the language and organization though. --Northmeister 03:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reformat

message: Until cordial editing is done by user Onefortyone or the community deals with his editing patterns I will no longer involve myself in this article and let his repeated patterns continue unabated. There is ample record for future editors to explore before attempting cleanup and NPOV here - I invite all concerned party's to cleanup this article and restore its encylopedic nature - and wish them the best. Expect namecalling, false accusations, and edit wars if you try to do anything proper with the article. If you need assistance - just drop me a line. --Northmeister 05:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: This article and why reverting myself

message: In this series of edits, Onefortyone added a pile of . . . let's say, material to the article. Sample:
:She made a snide remark to the members of the Memphis Mafia that she "was not the only one to think Elvis and the guys might be homosexual, especially since Elvis often wore pancake makeup and mascara offstage to accentuate his brooding intensity, à la Tony Curtis and Rudolph Valentino, his favorite movie actors."Raphael and Nash, "In Bed with Elvis," Playboy, November 2005. Even Martin Lacker confirms that in the early years in Hollywood, "a lot of people thought" that the Memphis Mafia members "were all gay."Alanna Nash, Elvis Aaron Presley: Revelations from the Memphis Mafia, p.195.
Let's put aside for a moment the question of whether this is encyclopedic information or merely titillating infotainment, and instead look at the next edit. In it, ElvisFan1981 reverts these edits by Onefortyone, with the remarkable edit summary:
:None of this is original writing, it's all plagiarised.... any more of it and a full investigation into plagiarism will be sought.
This is alarming indeed. From precisely where is it plagiarized, ElvisFan1981? -- Hoary (talk) 13:16, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You can be certain that the material is accurately cited. The only problem is that some Elvis fans tend to delete well-sourced contributions. Onefortyone (talk) 23:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see any plagiarism here. However, 141, the quotes are way too long and as such, unencyclopedic (whatever one may think of their content, doesn't matter). Is there some way you could cut them down, through neutral paraphrase and hence, blend them more smoothly into the article's narrative voice? If you could do this, it would be much easier for editors to think of them as encyclopedic content: The worry here wouldn't be what the published sources say, since en.WP isn't about truth, it's about verifiability and then echoing sources (which readers can verify for themselves if they like) in a neutral way. Gwen Gale (talk) 11:12, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: "it's all plagiarised"

message: TCB is not an acronym but an abbreviation. An acronym is a word that is made from initials, such as Pluto (Pipe line under the ocean) or Nato (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation)46.7.85.68 (talk) 17:12, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "acronym" TCB. 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Would be nice to include the full list of core members and indicate who is still alive 51.37.206.248 (talk) 12:01, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Any of them alive as of 2022?