Talk:Carl Orff

message: This article seems to have been sabotaged: "Carl Orff who sucked real bad refused to speak about his past.  What is known is that"  These words appear in the biography section, but do not appear when I try to edit the page.  Someone may want to do something about this.  :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.250.121.116 (talk) 20:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did Orff suck? 

message: There's this Nobuo Uematsu song in Final Fantasy VIII called (I think) Tears of the Moon that sounds A LOT like Orff's O Fortuna.  I'd be surprised if Nobuo didn't do a little stealing.  Anyone agree?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.157.110 (talk) 21:34, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarized? 

message: I added the category "German military personnel of World War I" yesterday, then saw this:
02:32, 31 March 2008 FordPrefect42 (Talk | contribs) (10,983 bytes) (revert - certainly not _military_ personnel, read the article)
I did read the article, and it states the following: Moser's Musik Lexicon states that Orff studied at the Munich Academy of Music until 1914. He then served in the military during World War I.
His WWI military service is referred to here and here.
It looks like he didn't join the German army immediately upon the outbreak of the war, but obv. that does not mean he wasn't in the army at all.
Was this revert made in error? KConWiki (talk) 12:13, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I admit that I misread the category as "... of World War II" in the first place. On the other hand, I think adding this cetegory would be somewhat misleading. Neither did Orff notably contribute to warfare, nor was he a volunteer member of the army. He simply fulfilled his military service, which was (and still is) mandatory in Germany, so practically every male German living at that time  would have to be added to that category. Orff's short-term military service did not exceed the year of 1914 due to serious health problems. --FordPrefect42 (talk) 23:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  However, there are plenty of American baseball players (Bill Conroy (catcher)) and actors (Jack Klugman) and congressmen (Henry Hyde) whose WWII service has gotten them put into such categories, even if they didn't make out-of-the-ordinary military contributions. I'd like to put the category back. KConWiki (talk) 01:55, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Orff was forced into military servitude in August 1917, and was only in the battlefield a short time before the horrendous injury. I've updated the citations, and I'll make a change to give that date. AskohlerOpus111 (talk) 09:55, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Military service in WWI?

message: I strongly wish that Phaidon would have produced a biography of Orff along the lines of their excellent treatments of other 20th century composers.  Until then, it seems that Michael Kater's "The Twisted Muse"(Oxford) seems to be the best english-language resource I've found.  It would be a shame if the chance to interview Orff's contemporaries has expired along with the composer.
Much of the controversy over Orff's relationship with the NSDAP seems to be answered by Kamen's assertion that he had a Jewish grandmother (mentioned in the first paragraph of "Jewish Flight and Exile" on page 105 of the softcover edition of "The Twisted Muse").  Kamen doesn't address the degree to which this was known at the time, but it seems to explain a great deal of why he would face the same "gray" categorization from both the NSDAP and, later, the occupying Allies.
Also key to Orff's legacy is the unique role his music holds in what might be called Fascist aesthetics.  Of course, this is incredibly subjective, and not without its contradictions.  But, in my opinion, his music has more than a few parallels to the massive scale and clean lines of Albert Speer, the epic cinematography of Riefenstahl (sp?), the neo-classical pretensions of the Italian supremacists, and other touchstones of what may be very broadly considered to be Fascist aesthetics.  The degree to which these aesthetics contrasted with the anti-modern bent of NSDAP authorities also makes for an interesting discussion on its own. .
Additionally, it would be nice to see his role as an educator given more attention.  Orff didn't just help establish an entirely new approach to musical education - he developed an entirely original system of modular percussion instruments and a revolutionary approach to education of the very young.  Also seldom mentioned is the degree to which these two roles overlapped - the same man who created an approachable system for the young to experience music and dance also used a completely original syntax in his scoring, with use of exotic percussion instruments almost never seen in any other score.  A revolutionary approach to the orchestra itself - the likes of which are possibly only found in the operas of Wagner, who takes the brass section to similar extremes as Orff takes percussion - makes for an interesting counterpart to his revolutionary approach to education.
I would also posit that the fact that the opening notes of "Carmina" have been rewritten countless times for promotional spots, films, etc, speaks to the resonance of these aesthetics in our contemporary world - one might suggest that the promotional presentations of uniforms, choreographed violence and manufactured epic quality of professional sports owes more than a little to the Fascists of the thirties, and that the fact that rewrites (or the occasional actual use of a clip) of "O Fortuna" are frequently used for this kind of subject matter is, in my opinion, interesting, even if it goes far, far beyond the appropriate subject matter for a biographical excerpt. 71.106.176.234 (talk) 07:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Jewish Grandparent, Fascist Aesthetics, Role as Educator, Continuing Influence

message: I don't know how wide the distribution is yet, but I saw Tony Palmer's "O Fortuna! - The true story of Carl Orff and Carmina Burana" at the Barbican Centre and it's got a decent amount of information regarding his life, including interviews with 3 of his wives and his biographer. Not to editorialize too much, but the impression given in the film was that his relationship with the Nazi party was merely one of convenience (in the sense that he didn't care enough about politics to be morally for or against them). He seemed to want to avoid rocking the boat (probably especially due to his part-Jewish ancestry). - IstvanWolf (talk) 22:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New film from Tony Palmer 

message: The article refers to the 'Benedictine monastery of Beuron'. Beuron is a famous Augustinian monastery near Sigmaringen, but surely the original manuscript of the Carmina burana was found in the library of Benediktbeuern, Bavaria. Norvo (talk) 17:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right. Beuron and Beuern (short for Benediktbeuern) are quite different locations. I have corrected this. --FordPrefect42 (talk) 10:07, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Great example of successful use of the wiki process! (I'd never heard of Beuron nor Beuern, and would not likely have caught that, even tho my German is good enuf for me to speculate that [B]euern is also the medieval ancestor of modern German Bayern; my sloppy Yank pronunciation may well have better matched -ron than -ern for decade after decade.)--Jerzy•t 04:12, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Two abbeys confused here

message: Why does someone think this is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject?  Deipnosophista (talk) 15:32, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Military history 

message: This article asserts that Orff wrote this piece, while all other references I have found so far within  WP appear to point to Richard Strauss including the disambiguation page for Also sprach Zarathustra.  I am pretty sure the record label on my old Star Wars album credited Strauss.  And supposedly it was written in 1896, when Orff would have been one-year old.
Perhaps the reference to Also sprach Zarathustra ought to be removed from the Orff bio?  --Grandpa jlc (talk) 06:30, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The famous Also sprach Zarathustra is indeed by R. Strauss. Orff also wrote a piece with that name, as did a few others; see Thus Spoke Zarathustra#Musical adaptation. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:01, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Orff's is actually just called Zarathustra (though it took me a while to notice that...). The manuscript is digitized at the Bayerische Staatsbibliothek in Munich; unfortunately, one has to go there to see it, even so. AskohlerOpus111 (talk) 10:20, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Also sprach Zarathustra 

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant 
This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 07:31, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:Carl Orff.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Carl Orff. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20091005110355/http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article5366154.ece to http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article5366154.ece
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090118121551/http://www.independent.co.uk:80/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/features/dark-heart-of-a-masterpiece-carmina-buranas-famous-chorus-hides-a-murky-nazi-past-1050503.html to http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/features/dark-heart-of-a-masterpiece-carmina-buranas-famous-chorus-hides-a-murky-nazi-past-1050503.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 14:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Substituted at 10:55, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Carl Orff. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090621023218/http://www.orff-zentrum.de:80/carlorff_chronologie_uk.asp to http://www.orff-zentrum.de/carlorff_chronologie_uk.asp
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.independent.co.uk:80/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/features/dark-heart-of-a-masterpiece-carmina-buranas-famous-chorus-hides-a-murky-nazi-past-1050503.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090516002723/http://www.orff-zentrum.de:80/index_uk.asp to http://www.orff-zentrum.de/index_uk.asp
*Added  tag to http://www.schott-music.com/shop/persons/az/carl-orff/index.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:22, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified