Talk:Islamic architecture

message: This section of the article needs a lot more information and description as it's section has significantly less information than any other country's section. In addition, there are two sentences included in this section that lack a citation, which decreases the credibility of the article and wikipedia as a whole.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdubes827 (talk • contribs) 19:22, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Yeminite 

message: Can i create a new section that lists all the architectural features of islamic architecture that was invented during medieval islamic world or architectural inventions that are also found in other architecture but has origin in islamic architecture?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:1484:A219:D2DC:4ABA:C0A2:76B6 (talk) 13:15, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  New section  

message: is it true that the first Skyscraper's in the world was built in Yemen ?. PilpelShata (talk) 13:27, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yemeni Architecture  

message: Oncemore, there seems to be an excessive use of images in the lead, and it is very unnecessary to include an abudance of images, especially when there is examples of architectonic principles displayed such as domes and arches, and adding more is redundant. Secondly, Hindu temple architecture has 3 images in the lead, how does that validate using 7 for islamic architecture? 
List of other religious architecture articles and the # of images in leads
*Hindu temple architecture 
**3 images
*Hindu Temple
**5 images, although this is relating specifically to Hindu temples, not generalized and shows different examples
*Church architecture
**1 image 
*Architecture of cathedrals and great churches
**5 images with different architectural styles (no repeats) relating specifically to the title and lead shows different examples
*Synagogue architecture
**2 images
*Sikh architecture
**6 images, there is a lack of other subsections in the article, and the images are notable in the Sikh religion, so it makes sense
*Buddhist architecture
**no images
*Mosque
**1 image
The lead for Islamic architecture mentions "New architectural elements like cylindrical minarets, muqarnas, arabesque, multifoil were invented. The principal Islamic architectural types for large or public buildings are: the mosque, the tomb, the palace, and the fort. From these four types, the vocabulary of Islamic architecture is derived and used for other buildings such as public baths, fountains and domestic architecture." Thus it makes sense to display images that encompass many of these as they follow the lead. Secondly, there is already an example of Moorish architecture in one of the images, there is no need to add more hence why moving it to the Gallery makes more sense. I would be okay with keeping the example of Umayyad architecture, I did not read the description when I moved it. So there would be an example of Isfahani, Ottoman, Umayyad, Moorish and Abbasid architecture.
Furthermore, there is already an image of the same arches in the article under Characteristics > Spain (al-Andalus):
File:Córdoba 2014.25.jpg|Arcades of the Mosque–Cathedral of Córdoba
Most sections already have an abudance of images, the images should either be removed, moved under Gallery, or moved under the related examples within the article. To recap, the lead has more images than many religious architecture articles, some of the images are already within the article, and the images are redundant of Moorish architecture in the lead. ChaoticTexan (talk) 22:42, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Well we disagree about this. WP:OSE isn't a very strong argument on WP, especially as none of the articles you mention are really very good models. Obviously what is "excessive" is in the eye of the beholder. We can always discuss the choice and placement of individual images, but your version left big imageless stretches at the top of the article, which isn't right in such a visual subject. This is a long article, with a very long TOC, which should have images alongside.  I've moved some down, so there are now only 4 images in the lead.  Let's see what other editors think. Johnbod (talk) 01:06, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not just leave the five images reflective of different Islamic architectural styles? I agree that this needs more input from other editors, although once again, the arches on top already exist within the article and are thus redudant. I will say that image  is better than the currently existing image of the same thing under Characteristics > Spain. I forget that not everyone is on mobile, so I can see how this is a subjective dispute. I guess the arches also bother me due to the length of it on mobile, which personally, it does not look visually well. The response is appreciated! ChaoticTexan (talk) 01:41, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excessive use of images in the lead 

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message: This sub-article under Characteristics seems unnecessary, and it does not add any thing new to the article. Should it be merge/remove? Indusstar (talk) 00:25, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my suggestion when I added the tags there. Personally I think it can simply be removed without any loss to the wider article. R Prazeres (talk) 00:56, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

text: Addendum: I actually took another look at it and moved two pieces of information to more relevant sections elsewhere. So I think what's left in this section can now definitely be removed. R Prazeres (talk) 01:26, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I moved the Architectural forms under Regional styles and one about specific elements to the top of Characteristics. Although they are not in perfect location, but probably better than the previous. Regards. Indusstar (talk) 09:56, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I think the "Architectural forms" just gets in the way under "Regional styles", because it's more inconsistent with the rest of that section. I'm just going to remove it at this point, as the topics in it are (and should be) covered elsewhere, and the article is long enough that we should avoid repetitive material. Editors are still free raise objections if they disagree. Thanks for your help! R Prazeres (talk) 16:55, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with the section removal; and thank you too for giving your time on this article :) Regards. Indusstar (talk) 17:14, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Architectural forms 

message: Do editors have a preference or an opinion on what size the pictures of galleries should be set at by default?
Most of the previous galleries on this page have their pictures set to 180px. I've added some galleries since then but I've left them at the default size (120px or unspecified). I don't think there's a particular policy for this elsewhere (correct me if I'm wrong). For galleries with lots of pictures, 180px seems to take up a lot of space (depending on your screen/display size), but also makes thumbnails easier to see. So if editors have a preference, I can standardize the new and old galleries accordingly. Thanks, R Prazeres (talk) 22:57, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: 180-ish is about right; the default is way too small. It's often good to put both parameters in, and have different galleries for portrait & landscape format pics, adjusted accordingly. Johnbod (talk) 23:57, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, thanks. I'll adjust the smaller ones then, and obviously folks are welcome to further revise. R Prazeres (talk) 00:31, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gallery picture size? 

message: The lead needs more work but I want to note that this statement looks doubtful or not clearly supported: "The principal Islamic architectural types for large or public buildings are: the mosque, the tomb, the palace, and the fort. From these four types, the vocabulary of Islamic architecture is derived and used for other buildings such as public baths, fountains and domestic architecture." Of the two sources that come after, one is incomplete (it has a last name, a page number, and nothing else) and the other is not a reliable source and doesn't say this in particular. I think a claim that there are only 4 basic types of buildings and that other building types are derived from them is the kind of thing that needs more serious support from sources, and shouldn't be in the lead until then. I personally doubt that this is a mainstream academic view. </br>
So instead, I'm going to replace this statement with a suggested simpler outline of the general building types relevant to Islamic architecture. We don't quite have this information spelled out anywhere else in the page yet either, so that may something to consider adding in the main body of the article. In the meantime, the lead can at least link readers to these other relevant pages so that some of the important terminology (e.g. madrasa, hammam, etc) is established at the start of the article. R Prazeres (talk) 20:50, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Four types" in lead 

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message: Hi , your edits are well-intentioned and could be more useful elsewhere, but they conflict with WP:NPOV (the neutral point of view policy) for this article. They're aimed at promoting the role of pre-Islamic Arabian/Arab influences in one way or another, despite the fact that most experts of Islamic architecture agree and in many cases explicitly state that this role was very limited by comparison with other influences. I won't repeat them here, but you can read the sources cited (with quotes) more than once already in this article.
Regarding your more architecture-specific edits, the latest ones you made in this edit are again overstating the point without good reason: the Hira palaces you mention, for example, are based on Sasanian models, as Shahid (the cited author) also explains, though you've omitted this context. Even if you added this context, it therefore doesn't say anything that isn't already said directly. Most summaries on Islamic architecture or even on Abbasid architecture (for example) barely mention Lakhmid influence, if at all. Also, your point in the same edit about South Arabian architecture being the "immediate predecessor of early Umayyad architecture" is not supported by the source you cited, which does not in fact say this, and is disproportionate to the minor relevant observations that the author does make in that chapter. So even adding "according to some scholars" is misleading. It doesn't respect WP:NPOV, WP:EXCEPTIONAL, or WP:FRINGE (all roughly related policies around presenting balanced and verifiable information). 
I've already used the gist of your first additions and sources to add an entire paragraph (in this edit) about the Lakhmids and Ghassanids and their potential contributions relevant to this topic, with more context. By comparison, far more important influences on Islamic architecture are still only very briefly summarized in the history section. We could chose to expand the history section as a whole to make room for more, but this article is already very long (as mentioned in another discussion above), there is already a separate section on "Influences" further below, AND there are separate sub-articles for most of these topics (e.g. Umayyad architecture, Abbasid architecture, not to mention the Lakhmids article itself, etc). The text of the article is always subject to revision of course, but as an overview article it needs to be balanced and not become a repository for arguments and examples in favour of one POV at the expense of mainstream scholarship. Detail and wording revisions aside, this particular issue is now well-covered already.
My recommendations to you, if you want to continue: you could bring this kind of information to some of the relevant subarticles I mentioned above, where there's plenty of room to expand, or you could add them in a new subsection in the "Influences" section further down in the article. You still need to place your claims in context and provide sources that support them directly (not indirectly), as always. R Prazeres (talk) 23:52, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV edits on Arabian/Arab influence (again) 

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