Talk:Sorbet

message: Does the section Sorbet in Popular Culture add anything?  Bigturtle 20:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular culture 

message: I am living in Italy (I am from it.wiki, as you can see from my italian user page) and honestly I don't agree with the sentence: Italians often refer to Sherbet as gelato, and the two terms are often used interchangeably in the United States. I think the part concerning Italians should be removed as it's not true. Daphoenyx 01:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italian 

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the proposal was
Article "Sorbet" merged into article "Sherbet (U.S.)". Now article "Sorbet" redirects to article "Sherbet (U.S.)"; other language links added.87.168.74.187 20:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sherbet/sorbet articles merged 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Oppose Sorbet and sherbet are not fully synonymous in American English, and sherbet is the common name. Already disambiguated, and, given the (apparently complete) national differentiation, it should stay dabbed. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: The external link to Dolcefine, a sorbet wholesaler, is inappropriate here.  Maybe if it were in the context of a list of the top five sorbet companies in the US/World, etc, but even then it would still be unencyclopedic. Eeblet (talk) 01:30, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed promotional link 

message: This section looks both in breach of NPOV and WP:CRYSTAL.Autarch (talk) 10:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future developments 

message: It's a unique frozen dessert.  I'm sorry if you disapprove of its origins, or think it's merely bastardized 'sorbet' (or a bastardized use of the term 'sorbet,' or an incorrect use of the British 'sherbet').  The fact is, 'sherbet' (as the term is used in the US) is a unique frozen dessert (i.e., a "light" form of ice cream with a bit of tartness, a unique texture [likely due to the addition of gelatin, or similar product, mentioned by the Encyclopedia Britannica entry, below] and almost always in fruit flavors - I'm saddened and amazed that the classic/quintessential "orange sherbe(r)t" and even "rainbow sherbe(r)t" aren't mentioned ANYWHERE on Wikipedia, even as brief mentions in any article) that deserves its own page.  (As, of course, 'sorbet' and British 'sherbet' do, with cross references to the American sherbet page, as appropriate.)  I'm getting the sense these days that to a lot of non-US (and even a lot of US) Wikipedia editors, anything culturally American is so evil and repugnant that its very acknowledgement must be quashed/suppressed.
:I agree. Sherbet is not Sorbet. If Sherbet had its own page and was merged into this one, I have to call into question the integrity of the editor who did that, and the administrators who upheld it. -Artificial Silence (talk) 07:25, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree Sherbet is not a type of Sorbet. Sorbet, as the article defines, is made ONLY with sweetened water and fruit while Sherbet has additional ingredients.Sir Robert "Brightgalrs" Schultz de Plainsboro (talk) 03:21, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

text: I agree with the above posts and made the differentiation page 'sherbert' quite a bit more explicit. I even added a couple sources to prove we're not crazy for wanting to be able to find information on this popular treat. Many a hot summer day in my youth were made bearable by enjoying some orange or rainbow sherbert (and I've NEVER heard it called 'sherbet', 'sorbet', or 'ice cream'.. not even to this day. People who grew up in America with sherbert know what it is and how to pronounce it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.168.44.192 (talk) 19:10, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

text: Agreed, completely, with all the sentiments expressed here. Sherbet is a unique (and very popular) product in the United States and Canada, and ought to be designated as such. For God's sake, the instances of sherbet lemon in Harry Potter had me convinced Dumbledore was an ice-cream lover, until I saw the hack job that the wiki has apparently done at "disambiguating" these terms. --SchutteGod (talk) 01:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree, this article is a mess. The American dairy product 'sherbet' has no place here, and neither does the British children's candy 'sherbert'. Whoever merged this stuff together hadn't got a clue. BTW, sorbet is usually pronounced as 'sorbay' in the French manner in British English, which is correct given that it's a French loanword. I've no idea what the Yanks do. --Ef80 (talk) 19:25, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Homemade sherbet does not always include dairy. I think a separate article could be created but it should not be created until someone has sourcing and content to add to it. There are a lot of food articles that are created and then left along for years. These mergers are temporary but do not prejudice recreation of the article. FDA regulations change over time and require too much constant maintenance to check for changes, so rather then a table we should follow what secondary sources say. Seraphim System (talk) 23:47, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Sherbet' (the unique US dairy product) needs its own page 

message: The first section contains everything but an actual definition of "sorbet."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.242.72.225 (talk) 17:19, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  No actual definition 

message: Hey , thanks for your input. I may have missed some point, but as far as i can see that's what the cited sources say :
source number 4 : "Birthplace of ice cream: Persians are believed to have introduced the art of frozen desserts"
source number 5 :"A favorite use of this stored ice was in one of the earliest frozen desserts; the forerunner of all ice creams and sorbets"
source number 6 seems to deal with sharbat/sherbet, not sorbets and thus, can be removed from this article.
Given what i said above, it seems that none of the sources support sharbat as being the precursor of modern sorbet while two sources supoort what i wrote in the article before your last edits, i.e. early frozen desserts originated in Persia and were the precursor of what we know today as ice cream and sorbet. Please let me know if you think i'm mistaken. Best.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 18:57, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Your changes are not correct. There were other frozen desserts in China that are unrelated to sorbet. You made these changes based on the headline of the article without even reading the source. Don't do that. Source 4 says: "It is believed that Arabs who had conquered Persian Empire at the time took the age-old Persian refreshment called Sharbat and enriched the existing mix of fruit syrup and snow chilled honey with milk and sugar." Why are you removing this when it's directly supported by all reliable sources? Spudlace (talk) 05:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I did read the sources, and i still don't get where it is said that sharbat is the precursor of sorbet. Thus, i suggest we go by what the sources really say. Besides, source 5 says that one of the earliest frozen desserts was created in Persia and that it is the forerunner of all ice creams and sorbets. That seems cristal clear to me.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 10:28, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Other sources exist that dispute whether sharbat is the forerunner of all frozen desserts. So, it is not only outside the scope of the article but it puts too much weight on one source (Gil Marks) who we use a lot when we lack better sources, but not where it conflicts with better quality sources. Gil Marks never cites his sources so, if anything, we should be reducing the weight on this source. Since there are better sources available, Marks should probably be removed because it is not needed. Spudlace (talk) 10:46, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  That is not the answer to my question, where is it said that sharbat is the precursor of sorbet and ice creams ? it's you who wrote that in the article without any source to back it up. What i suggest to write is what i wrote before your last edits and that is supported by the sources (no problem with changing it into "one of the earliest frozen desserts oringinated in Persia and has been described as the forerunner of ice creams and sorbets"). As to the quality of the sources, if you have better ones, i suggest you bring them here.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 10:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  This article doesn't say anything about ice creams. You should be more careful about making false accusations. I'm not going to respond to an editor that does that. I think you may want to edit the frozen dessert article instead. Spudlace (talk) 18:27, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:   I'm not editing Frozen desserts, i'm editing this article, but it seems that it's owned by you unfortunately. I don't get well why you behave like that with me, i am trying to improve this article and i engaged with you here in a polite manner while you were aggressive from your first answer. I am not making false accusations, you were the one who said that sharbat is the precursor of modern sorbet, not me and you did not provide any source for that. Now, you reverted me when i asked you to wait for the thread to conclude and you keep editing it as you want, ignoring the fact that another editor has also the right to contribute. Your behavior is not in accordance with WP:BRD and WP:OWN. I have no problem with the removal of "ice cream" (my above proposal was just an example of the kind of sentence that could be included, not a strict wording). I will make a last attempt to find a compromise with you, i suggest to leave the background section in and  write "one of the earliest frozen desserts oringinated in Persia and has been described as the forerunner of sorbets", this article contains roughly nothing about Persia while that empire greatly contributed to the creation of sorbets (among others, yakhchals are Persian, Faloodeh too), this is misleading for our readers.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 19:29, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I need better sourcing for it than Gil Marks. If Gil Marks is the only source we usually attribute. Don't be so defensive. I reverted was about frozen desserts in general. Your response "I'm not editing Frozen desserts, i'm editing this article" was not helpful. Your revised version is better but most sources do not mention Persia as a definite origin, only an etymology. I've checked three or four sources so far and none of them support this change. Ping me again if you find something better that supports the language you want to add. Spudlace (talk) 20:04, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

text: Not unless he says which of the desserts that originated in Persia is the precursor. Gil Marks is generally reliable but not the best source because where it is vague and because he doesn't cite his sources. Please don't ping me about this again. I don't have anything more to add to this but other editors may support your proposal.  Spudlace (talk) 21:24, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I restored the quote and its sources since they were part of the long-standing version of the article, the onus is on you to achieve consensus if you want to remove them.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 21:45, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

text: The one who is edit-warring is you, not me, i made a single revert, thus your "warning" on my talk sounds like harassment.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 22:12, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Background 

message: It is a synonym for sorbet Spudlace (talk) 19:14, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never had granita dispensed from a machine but that is a discussion for another time. I was able to find several sources specific to the cultural significance and history of Italian ice that would justify a second article. I'm tempted to forego the merger and expand the article. Spudlace (talk) 10:04, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of [[Italian ice]] into [[Sorbet]] 

message: Shouldn't  rainbow sherbet be merged with the sherbet page - 9Bdyea (talk) 18:32, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Closing, given the objection, but started the obvious alternative proposal! Klbrain (talk) 14:38, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is rainbow sherbet being merged with this page 

message: For too long, we've been confusing our readers with two articles about the same thing. According to the Oxford English dictionary, sherbet means sorbet : . Thus, i propose to merge Sherbet (frozen dessert) in Sorbet.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 15:33, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: *Comnent: Are you allowed to support your own nomination? —theMainLogan (t•c) 09:58, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

text: *:I think it'd be fine as he cannot single handedly tip consensus in his favour. ✶Mitch199811✶ 22:34, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal