Talk:Chengdu J-10

message: As BillCJ said, it's better to come up with a new or different section header to the section "Israeli participation", rather than use "Israeli participation", "Possible Israeli participation" or "Possible Israeli participation?". Here are mine:
*Israeli influence in the J-10's design
*Israel's contribution to the the J-10's design
What would you suggest? (If we can't find any good one, "Israeli participation" will be the default header.) --Henrickson User talk | Contribs 23:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  i would actually suggest Israeli technology transfer. because participation sound like the israeli actually work on the plane, where by they might just be providing whatever they HAD, eg. fly-by-wire, radar, missile.. etc to the chinese. which really sound more of a transfer than participation unless is israeli actually develop anything they didn't already have for the chinese, which would be very questionable! Akinkhoo (talk) 09:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Section header suggestions

message: "A simple comparison of known IAI Lavi prototype photographs and J-10 photographs (now officially released) confirms J-10 being further development of IAI Lavi."
From a logical point of view, you cannot derive the relation of two aircrafts from photos. Can I say that "Tu-160 is a further development of USA B-1"? Words like "a simple comparison" should be removed.
Since you have included the photos for J-10 and Lavi, in order to make it NPOV, you should include the photos of J-9(which shows the relation of J-10 with J-9).
To me, there are clearly a few differences between J-10 and Lavi, the canards, the delta wing and the air intake are quite different. The canards and delta wing of J-10 is more similar to J-9, though the air intake is completely different. The J-9 photo is here http://www.china-defense.com/aviation/chinese_fighter_development/2b.jpg
Lizhuoru (talk) 08:23, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The part is biased and against common sense

message: The article sais it is developed from the J-9, but I have always heared it has been developed from the Israeli IAI Lavi. The Honorable Kermanshahi (talk) 17:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: because they are misleaded, the J-9 exist before the Lavi but few know or seen the J-9 design. and since most western analyst only know of the Lavi, they draw the line incorrectly because the Lavi was the most similar design they know of. it is basically 1 big rumour because china kept the program secret until quite recently. but large amount of misinform material were already written about it. Akinkhoo (talk) 07:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Developed from

message: A maximum range of 3000 km without refueling for a lightweight fighter?  Isn't this grossly unrealistic for a lightweight fighter?  (Psychoneko (talk) 13:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is. According to Jane's All The World's Aircraft, the maximum ferry range with max fuel in internal and external tanks is 1850km.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpine75 (talk • contribs) 00:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: J-10 Operational Range

message: This part is mostly irrevelent to the main topic. Also it is short of citation. I think it should be combined with the former part "engine", or be deleted at all.(Dale_Zhong)  —Preceding comment was added at 13:01, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Thrust vectoring

message: Seriously guys? Am I the only one who thinks that this plane is IDENTICAL to MiG MFI?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.118.191.48 (talk) 05:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: J-10 program started in 1986 when USSR was still China's no.1 enemy, and its aerodynamic design hasn't changed much since the beginning. So it is very unlikely J-10 somehow copied MiG MFI.Mxiong (talk) 08:48, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

text: It's funny, you say Mig MFI.. I think eurofighter typhoon, gripen, rafale would have a been a better "identical match" to the J-10.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.50.156 (talk) 01:36, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't think it looks like the MiG MFI at all, just the wing configuration. It seems to me to have more in common with the Eurofighter Typhoon or especially the IAI Lavi.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.136.240 (talk) 05:30, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: MiG MFI

message: Is this variant real or just another rumor floating around.  It would make perfect sense for the Chinese to proceed to the next phase with the design(not unlike the evolution of the Hornet into the Super Hornet).  Without a reference, though, this entire description is just speculation and should be removed.216.181.47.130 (talk) 13:12, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Super-10

message: I just realized something.  I mentioned that the J-10 was a lightweight fighter without having put much thought into it.  I know that the J-11 (variant of the Su-27 series) counts as a heavyweight fighter in the same class as the F-15 due to its size and weight, but the J-10 is of similar size and weight to the J-11.  Could someone enlighten me on whether the J-10 counts as a lightweight or as a heavyweight?  Because I still see it as a lightweight, but its full payload weight and whatnot is pushing it somewhat towards the heavyweight class.  (Psychoneko (talk) 20:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Lightweight Fighter?

message: So, I noticed in this article the words "the first photographs" with the word "photographs" linked to the wiki article on photographs and it led me to some curiosity about the policy of Wikipedia article linking.  In this case, it really doesn't seem to add anything to the article, in fact, were this standard of usefulness to be adhered to for linking throughout the article, most nouns and several verbs would be linked.  Is this really the policy?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.165.83 (talk) 19:28, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Linking words

message: Instead of editing back and forth forever, maybe everyone can sit down and discuss this? Lets try to open a dialogue on this since its still a bit of a thorny topic. I think a consensus can be worked out Semi-Lobster (talk) 07:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the comparable aircraft section a number of times to protect the article from constant editing as each editor has a different view of what is comparable which indicates no consensus. So until consensus is agreed here it has been removed. MilborneOne (talk) 10:55, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Ok, so we know that the J-10 is a pretty impressive fighter (based on that article, though as you say, it may be just opinion) with good manouverability and a modest payload. Of course there are lots of stats the the chinese government hasn't released, rather none have been released. What's to stop the addition of a list of comparable aircraft?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 08:24, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Errr... yes they have (sort of), all you have to do is google 歼10 and 性能参数 and look for a government website. Like this one at random, http://www.cic.gov.cn/n16/n352050/353611.html?lk='/n16/n352050/n353611.files/n353610.JPG' which is the site for the 'Commission of Science Technology and Industry for National Defense message center' Semi-Lobster (talk) 14:49, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Based on the avionics, airframe, thrust, and armaments, i'd say this is equivilent or slightly better than a F-16 Block 40/42  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.21.176 (talk) 10:27, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see why we just don't put 'F-16' for related aircraft. Its such a vague designation with so many variants with different performances and capabilities that it should be suitably vague enough to please everybody. Additionaly the Mitsubishi F-2 is based on the F-16 Agile Falcon concept which later was incorporated into the Block 40/42, so pehaps we can add that as well? Semi-Lobster (talk) 14:33, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

text: According to me, J-10 is a pretty impressive fighter but it's avionics, radar, weaponry and design makes it comparable to Saab Gripen, HAL Tejas, MiG-35 and F-16 Block-40 . It is not comparable to Euro-fighter Typhoon except for the design. We do not decide similar aircraft by comparing the speed or design. We look for advanced avionics and other similar capabilities. --Johnxxx9 (talk) 09:24, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well we need to state the reasons why something is like something else and why things aren't like something else. The J-10 is a lightweight, multi-role fighter with emhpasis on air superiorority. The MiG-35 is very large (19m long) and has thrust vectoring, something that at the current time the J-10 does not have. The Tejas is... controversial, everytime it or the JF-17 is mentioned, controversy always follows on Wikipedia so lets avoid using it if necessary IMO. I personally think the Gripen is pretty comparable considering what is known and what has been seen of the J-10. Semi-Lobster (talk) 15:24, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Ok, so the Gripen is comparable, what of the Rafale? The Eurofighter Typhoon may be a bit of a stretch perhaps, but the wouldn't the J-10 be roughly the same as the Rafale? The article for the J-10 says "Mr. Sang Jianhua (桑建华) of Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute was responsible for the stealth feature designs." and "The intakes on both the Lavi and F-16 are round and fixed, and neither aircraft was developed with an eye towards reduced radar cross-section.", which hints that the J-10 has at least some stealthi-ness. But because there are no concrete specifications for the performance of the J-10, wouldn't it be prudent to put the aircraft which share a similar design and size/mass with the J-10?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 02:12, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Rafale and Typhoon are twin engine aircraft, which cause a lot of fundamental differnces between them and Rafale and Typhoon. Although on the other hand they are both have canards and delta-wings which are both fundamental aspects of the J-10 design aswell. The 'Comparable Aircraft' section is a supplementary and is not a cornerstone of the article. Trying to become too ambitious to detailing it could lead to it becoming completely removed like what happened with the Eurofighter Typhoon's 'Comparable aircraft' section. I would rather have a short, concise list of comparable aircraft that everyone can agree on rather than having it completely removed due to a never ending edit war. As for additional aircraft, The F-16XL is another example of a comparable aircraft as it is a single engine fighter using the delta-wing configuration. Semi-Lobster (talk) 03:59, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, when put that way I suppose the J-10 should remain comparalbe aircraft-less. We still don't know the full specifications (once again I say), and therefore we can't do an educated guess with other aircraft, never mind a guess.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 04:41, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well we now its dimensions, its engine it uses, its design philosophy and we hae a rough but decent understandign of it radar and weapons layout. We may not know what 'stealth features' are actually involved or its exact EW and avionics used. I'm not saying that a list is impossible but we should take caution and if necessary only have two or three aircraft listed. We may not know 100% exactly what sort of bird the J-10 is but I'm sure by now we've all seen the Zhuhai 2008 footage of its performance. Keeping some vague links to other single engine, light fighter aircraft would be ideal. Like I said earlier, I think the F-16 is a shoe in link because all blocks and variants are listed so simplying putting 'F-16' in a link will give enough room to wiggle in. The same I think for the Gripen as well as the difference between the Gripen A, C and NG share a lot in common with the H-10, especially in its delta-wing, canard design, while still, being a large enough range to not particularly offend anybody. The Gripen's 'Comparable aircraft' section has the J-10 listed anyway so I don't think its really a problem.Semi-Lobster (talk) 05:52, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But dimensions, payload and weapons aren't even half of an aircraft. The Gripen and F-16 would be comparable, though it would still be wise I think to put aircraft which are simply similar to the J-10, which once again I say are the two stated before, though including the Rafale and Typhoon due to designs and roles (all being canard/delta and multirole, save for the F-16 which is not canard/delta). The comparable aircraft section of aircraft articles do not have to list aircraft with exactly the same specs, so I don't see why the list I have given is invalid.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 04:39, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh don't get me wrong about your list. Its good, I just want to be cautious on this. As I stated already even though engine similarities are important, other aircrafts 'comparable aircraft' section has precedent for single engine fighters to be listed as double and vice versa. I just want to make sure the list made is right from the first tim and won't be tinkered and tampered sometime down the line. Semi-Lobster (talk) 04:50, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, I can understand your caution. But, say once this talk page has decided upon a list, if anyone decided to tamper with it, we will be able to re adjust it, while directing them to this discussion as our verdict. Won't that be a deterrent for people not to edit the list enough?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.121.3 (talk) 21:18, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is why we need a good list, to act as a detterent.So far everybody here seems to agree that the F-16, Gripen, Rafale and Eurofighter are comparable. The Tejas can also be added to but the whole 'generation' debate over the Tejas is still going on and the J-10's comparable aircraft section could be dragged in to that aswell. Maybe when that is resolved or more information on the Tejas Mk. 2 is released we can finally we can choose to add it or not. Semi-Lobster (talk) 21:29, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, fantastic. It seems we've all agreed to the aircraft (save for the Tejas). So who's going to add the list back on?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 09:29, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

text:  In the radar section J-10's radar, whatever it maybe, will have to be comparable to EL/M-2052 or Grifo 2000/16. And the engine which is a Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN is close to FE-414 in technology. The avionics suite seems to be comparable as that on HAL Tejas, Saab Gripen and Su-MKK. The airframe is similar to Saab Gripen, Tejas, Rafale in that all of these have delta wings. And payload faring is also similar to HAL Tejas. These are the things we take into perspective while deciding similar aircraft.  --Johnxxx9 (talk) 19:16, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The EL/M-2052 is an AESA radar so thats not really comparable at all, the J-10As current radar from what is known is a planar array radar that is not the Grifo 2000/16. The avionics and engines from the information available seem comparable. The delta-wing/canard configuration is a key to the J-10 design, and given precedent, twin engine aircraft can be compared to single engine and vice-versa so a plane like the Rafale could be compared to it. The Tejas Mk.1, has not entered service and will not for several more years and only in very limited numbers so I would be cautious to compare anything to it but why not add it I guess but like I said I would prefer a shorter list than anything, we shouldn't add an aircraft just for the sake of adding things for no reason. For example the F/A-18 only has 4 aircraft listed. Semi-Lobster (talk) 00:19, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont have a view on what should be on the list but just to remind that comparable aircraft is not a deep scientic study on what is the same it just for the reader to find similar aircraft like size or role and age things like the radar are not really important in finding similar aircraft. Does it look the same, does it do the same job is it from the same era nothing more complicated. MilborneOne (talk) 11:26, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, but for some reason the J-10 seems to be somewhat of a magnet of 'controversy' for some reason, I want to make sure we can finally put an end to the small edit wars that keep happening.Semi-Lobster (talk) 13:54, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Sorry, but Eurofighter isn't comparable. I'd go with Gripen, Rafale and HAL Tejas --Johnxxx9 (talk) 11:50, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Both are multi-role Delta wing aircraft with canards, although the Eurofighter is a bit larger. There are on the otherhand, a lot of features onthe Typhoon not present currently on the J-10 and the Typhoon is certainly in a 'special' league of very, very advanced 4+ generation of aircraft. I think the main difference is role. Chengdu has stated on several occasions that work has already begun on a navalised variant while the Typhoon, has never been navalised. This automatically IMO makes it closer to the Rafale than the Eurofighter Typhoon. If anybody else has an opinion please add your opinions as well, Wikipedia is a community project after all. As for the Tejas, I'm hesistant to add it as it has not entered service yet and with IAF announcing that they might not order any additional Tejas' beyond the twenty or so pre-production aircraft until the Mk. 2 is developed has led to some wild and unpredictable speculation on new requirements and new specifications but the IN order is still going through. Also this list isn't exactly scientific, the comparable aircraft section does not really have a set criteria for what 'comparable' means. Semi-Lobster (talk) 15:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Does any one disagree with adding the Gripen and Rafale to the comparable aircraft list? MilborneOne (talk) 15:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So far it seems nobody is against the Gripen or Rafale or F-16. Semi-Lobster (talk) 16:10, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought Europe was working on a naval version of EF. Isn't that the reason why there were reports that U.K. would dis-continue the F-35 program with US, instead work on a naval EF. But I do believe J-10 will have a CAS role. And the Mk-2 version of Tejas will just a more powerful engine and some changed features. So, I think it should be included due to the additional reason that they will most probably face-off against each other. Let's go with this: 
*Rafale(similar role, technology, design and avionics)
*Tejas (similar role, technology,wings and avionics)
*Gripen(similar role, technology and design)
*F-16 Block 40 (similar role, technology, intakes and avionics)
*F/A-18(similar technology and avionics)  --Johnxxx9 (talk) 08:08, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

text: The F/A-18 is a lot larger than the J-10, and 4000kg heavier than the J-10. I don't think the two aircraft very comparable. There were some preliminary designs for a navalised Eurofighter in the design phase but that was cancelled very, very early in production and nothing exists beyond paper. Currently there is no plan to navalise Typhoon and the F-35 is still scheduled to be used by the Royal Navy. There is no doubt that the J-10 will have CAS since Chengdu has officially announced that it will. The Mk.2 is still in development, nothing is really known what features, other than the engine and intake the difference, will be. Well if you insist on the Tejas thats fine, as long as we have an agreed list controversy can be kept to a minimum. For some reason the Tejas is linked to an unusally large number of aircraft and things seem to be fine with that so it seems the Tejas be a useful comparison. Semi-Lobster (talk) 16:53, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Its quite a tough job comparing eastern aircraft to the western ones! So, the list should be---
* Dassault Rafale
* Saab Gripen
* HAL Tejas
* F-16 Block-40 (Optional) --Johnxxx9 (talk) 20:49, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I don't think the Tejas should be included at least, the Tejas is a light combat aircraft, and the J-10 is in a completely different weight category. And Semi Lobster has also stated the Eurofighter Typhoon should be included on the list. So I think:
* Dassault Rafale
* Saab Gripen
* F-16 Fighting Falcon (optional)
* Eurofighter Typhoon
If anyone would like to dispute the Tejas, I have a source that says the Jf-17 is a peer to the LCA, F-CK 1 IDF of Taiwan, and the Golden Eagle LIFT trainer of korea. Of course, that works the other way round too, meaning the LCA is comparable to the JF-17, F-CK 1 and Golden Eagle. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/stuck-in-sichuan-pakistani-jf17-program-grounded-02984/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 20:31, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Also, the max take off weight of the J-10 is closer to the Rafale and Typhoon than the Tejas. The F-16's max take off is pretty much the same as the J-10.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 20:46, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I am really sorry but J-10 is not in the same weight category as EF. The weaponload capabilty of J-0 is around 5 tons comparable to that of Saab Gripen and HAL Tejas. --Johnxxx9 (talk) 21:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. 5.5 tons, compared to the >4000 tons of the LCA. But of course, as many people say, we must not only take in numbers. There fore.. : http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Sinocanard.html Here's another source I've found. This time it says the J-10 is comparable to the Eurocanards.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 21:39, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Please, that 5.5 ton figure has already been tagged. The above section mentions it as 4.5 tons. --Johnxxx9 (talk) 21:53, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, let's say it is 4.5 tons ok? We still have to realise that no specs like that is given officially. So really they're estimates at best, therefore unreliable to compare with other aircraft. That is where the references I've posted comes in. And one says the LCA is comparable to JF-17, IDF. The other says the J-10 is comparable to the Eurocanards and uses some of the best Eurocanard ideas. I haven't read one single article that relates the J-10 to the Tejas.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 22:12, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That is because we are as unaware of the exact spec of Tejas as in the case of J-10. Closer examination of what we do know about them will give you some answers. You must be aware of the India-Pakistan thing so these blogs you are talking about are influenced by hatred. We are completely unaware of many spec of Tejas like turn rate, rate of climb etc.  --Johnxxx9 (talk) 22:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well for the J-10 I'm talking about simple things like weight and max speed. If you don't even have that, then things like turn rate and climbing rate is irrelevant. And by articles, I don't mean blogs. I mean magazine articles, or professional sites on the military.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 22:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is being debated, quite. So I'm saying that for the J-10, we just don't add any comparable aircraft. The JF-17 and J-10 articles are clearly linked that nobody can agree on what comparable planes should be on the list... Blitzoace (talk) 04:22, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

text: The complete removal of the section on all aircraft articles was suggested at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Aircraft/Archive_23#Comparable.2Fsimilar_aircraft but that discussion was no concluded although nobody objected to it. Perhaps it is time to look at it again. MilborneOne (talk) 11:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparable aircraft

message: I don't mean to nit-pick, but the article for air superiority fighters says that the J-10 is China's primary air superiority fighter. However, this article says that it's a multi-role fighter. Does anyone know for sure which class of plane it actually is?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheese1125 (talk • contribs) 22:39, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's primary role is not as air superiority fighter. It's primary role is Close Air Support. --Johnxxx9 (talk) 14:30, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Close air support signifies a low level surface attack role. CAS is used to describe aircraft like the A-10 or Su-25. CAS aircraft are never classified as even fighters. Semi-Lobster (talk) 18:53, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: i looked it up and the chinese have designed it to be a multirole fighter-bomber    Cheese1125 (talk) 01:56, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Category of aircraft?

message: I recently modified the Variant section for the J-10B to be
"The J-10B is the two-seat fighter-trainer variant of the J-10 multirole fighter aircraft. The forward fuselage of the aircraft was stretched to accommodate an additional pilot seat. Two pilots sit in tandem in the two-seat cockpit with one single large bubble canopy. The aircraft also has an enlarged dorsal spine to accommodate additional avionic equipment or fuel. As well as serving as training aircraft, the J-10B may also be used for the ground attack role where the rear seat pilot acts as the weapon operator"
http://www.electronicaviation.com/aircraft/Chengdu_J-10/1018
Other sources such as
http://www.stormpages.com/jetfight/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm
has stated that "10 might have been delivered to the PLAAF Flight Test & Training Center for evaluation in summer 2002. The latest news suggested that a tandem seat trainer/attack version (J-10B?) has already been under development"
supports the above quote.
But on NO account has there been any source claiming otherwise. and yet, for the second time, the J-10B has been edited to be:
"A Major upgrade of the J-10 which first flew in December 2008 features 3-d thrust vectoring and much more."
Which is Unbacked by evidence/source, and have a very Sales like Pitch to it.
Meanwhile, has deliberately changed the J-10B to J-10S: 
 
"J-10S : The J-10S is the two-seat fighter-trainer variant of the J-10 multirole fighter aircraft. The forward fuselage of the aircraft was stretched to accommodate an additional pilot seat. Two pilots sit in tandem in the two-seat cockpit with one single large bubble canopy. The aircraft also has an enlarged dorsal spine to accommodate additional avionic equipment or fuel. As well as serving as training aircraft, the J-10S may also be used for the ground attack role where the rear seat pilot acts as the weapon operator. [25] "
Which does not fit the referenced source.
Any thoughts?  
The latest modification done by someone:
"J-10B : A major upgrade of the J-10 which first flew in December 2008 featuring 3-D thrust vectoring, DSI, AESA radar, IRST, internal weapons bay, RAM coating, and much more. 36 ordered by Pakistan under the designation FC-20."
Internal weapons bay? RAM coating? Much more?
Is this guy joking? With no sources, and having completely implausible claims, what the hell?
whatever... i'll edit it, the way it should be. if you have any problems, put it here.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.21.176 (talk) 03:10, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hui Tong has a good site but its all really based on speculative internet rumours. Its a good source for existing aircraft but he relies far too heavily on Chinese BBS, forums and blogs to be considered a proper source. I think the entire section should be removed. We haven't even seen one picture of the J-10B yet. I personally believe the aircraft is in development and it may have flown sometime last year but until we have something more concrete we can seriously consider keeping this. The entire section is highly speculative and, as we have seen in the past few weeks. A source of constant editting and re-editting. Semi-Lobster (talk) 21:48, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, I am so confused now. What exactly is the aircraft ordered by Pakistan? I thought it was the J-10B, designated FC-20, I even read some news stories about that. But now I'm hearing that it's actually the J-10A that's designated FC-20. And there's also the claim the FC-20 is actually FC-10, and could be either J-10A or J-10B. Could someone clarify? Cheese1125 (talk) 00:28, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: All the mainstream sources are saying that the FC-10 is the J-10A. Most talk about the FC-20 are from... less reliable sources and are usually about speculated additional J-10s recieved AFTER the current order of 36 is filled. Semi-Lobster (talk) 04:10, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ohhh...I get it. Thanks for the info. There used to be something on the confirmed operators section about Pakistan having an option for 100 more; it might be that. Then again, it was an uncited statement which was probably why it was removed. Cheese1125 (talk) 17:45, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: J-10B

message: Can some moderator please protect the article? People keep making edits to the operator section, changing the variant ordered by Pakistan. I have removed any numbers and variants info from the section since they are the cause of an edit war.Hj108 (talk) 18:45, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have noticed the changes as well. In recent days however, some pictures has come to hand about the FC-20/J-10B.
Most BBS and Bloggers are saying it has AESA/PESA (line on nose), ECM (bulge in tail), DSI (well you can just see it...), IRST (on nose). But I think we should just wait it out and see which variant Pakistan ordered. Blitzoace (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 08:53, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

text: You have made a good point nobody owns this article but HJ108 is just trying to defend the article from constant revisions from what is sometimes unreliable (or not acceptable to Wikipedia) sources. If you think he/she is wrong then like any challenged edit it can be disucussed on this page. MilborneOne (talk) 12:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Constant vandalism, edits without sources

message: J-10B is the proper name for the improved version of the aircraft. I tried updating the page, but someone removed my edit. I follow Chinese aircraft very closely, there is nothing called the "Super-10", but rather it is J-10B. Would someone please stop adding "Super-10" back, the plane does not exist.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by RiseOfTheRev01ution (talk • contribs) 04:17, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, but the isn't the Super-10 the designation of a twin engined J-10 variant?122.57.119.98 (talk) 05:57, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You just can't 'add another engine' to an aircraft. They would would have to completely change the aircraft to accomodate the other engine and completely change everything because the aerodynamics of the aircraft would be completely different. It would be a new plane if you added another engine. It would be impossible to create a twin engine J-10B, it would just be another aircraft. Semi-Lobster (talk) 11:21, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I understand the basics. On blogs and such from people who follow these things closely say there is a 5th gen twin engined "j-10". I'm not sure what they mean by that, but I think in english at any rate, it should get the designation of the Super-10.Blitzoace (talk) 06:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a Jane's Defence article talking about a new J-10 model called "Super-10" (a Russian source told them about it) that has a phased array radar, stronger airframe and thrust vector control, that is why it is called Super-10 in the article. Unless you can prove the article to be wrong, why change it? It also says in the article that existence is unconfirmed by Chinese sources, which is also true. Hj108 (talk) 19:17, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Jane's Defense while reliable, doesn't always address the truth. I mean this because even they may get their facts wrong, espicially when talking about the Chinese military. For the "Super 10" it really depends on what you're reffering to; the J-10 upgrade said by Janes, or the one which is speculated to be a 5th gen variant.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 03:55, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved it under J-10B section, does it look better? Hj108 (talk) 17:17, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I have not read any proper source talking about Super-10 being a "5th generation twin-engined J-10", only unreliable blogs and so on. The Janes Defence article on Super-10 is reliable information. All the photos of J-10B prototype (assuming photos are not fake) confirm everything in the Janes Defence article (except thrust vectoring) - the stronger airframe (the new hardpoint under each wing) and phased array radar (the new radome with tilting bulkhead) are talked about in the Janes Defence Super-10 article. Whether it is Russian or Chinese, the TVC engine could also be added in future. The whole Super-10 part is only a couple of lines, it has a fairly reliable source and it agrees with the J-10B prototype photos, why remove it? Hj108 (talk) 20:48, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: True. You have a good few reasons there. The reason I am skeptical of the Janes article is that it misses out the big thing of DSI. I'm not sure if it matters or not but I think that it is best to leave some thoughts of the Super-10 as imagination. But really I don't mind now what it is.... And we all know what the chinese are like, sometimes we can only rely on blogs for info. A couple of these blogs know what they're talking about. But on wiki we can't put blogs as sources anyway.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzoace (talk • contribs) 21:52, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Think of it this way: the Janes article mentioned "stronger airframe" and the DSI bump should make the airframe stronger in terms of low RCS, low weight and improved aerodynamics.Hj108 (talk) 11:07, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I am content with leaving it as "could" instead of "probably". Hints and the idea and also leaves room for doubt. Just my 2 cents.Blitzoace (talk) 07:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "J-10B" NOT "Super-10"

message: I'm just starting this because of the various reports of Chinese buying Al-31FN engines. I would like to make out that these russian engines are rumoured to have an MTBO as low as 800 hours. I haven't read any reports yet, but it depends from which author you get it from. Many pro Russians say it's just that China can't produce a suitable engine and such, while Chinese bloggers are saying they're used to replace engines on J-11's and earlier J-10's. At any rate I think the engine category on the J-10 page shouldn't say the programme's lagging. Creates a mood that it's behind scheduale. Either change it to something more moderate, or state the opposite view that no one really knows what's going on about the J-10, and they may be using WS-10A or Al-31F. Just to moderate it a bit. Not asking too much I hope.Blitzoace (talk) 04:06, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Engine schedule should not be on this article anyway, this article is about J-10 not WS-10. Go ahead and make the edit, there aren't any reliable sources for either argument and that should be reflected in the article.Hj108 (talk) 13:17, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: J-10 engines

message: :Proelitez, we've already determined that the J-10 was 4.5 like... ages ago I think. Please don't start the edit war again. As for the radar of the J-10B... I am pretty sure it's an ESA, and we don't know whether it is PESA or AESA. There have been conflicting reports from people who say China's not advanced enough to develop it to people who read chinese BBS's and claim China is skipping PESA to AESA. Either way I think we should keep both there to keep the possibility of both types being possible.Blitzoace (talk) 05:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No discussion on generation on this talk page that I can see - really needs a reliable reference or it should be removed as not particularly notable. The radar bit (in fact all of the J-10B  section) is pure speculation and should really be pruned to remove opinion and speculation. It is all guess work and has no place in an encyclopedia. MilborneOne (talk) 12:12, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: True, I meant we as in... like the world. But now that I think of it, there have actually been no real sources to differentiate it between 4 and 4.5 that I have found.. I go with stick to the status quo on this one. Well, I am seriously not sure how to talk about speculation. Because in what you're saying, the whole of the article "future chinese aircraft carrier" should be removed too it's only speculation. I suppose putting "it is speculated" in front of a statement which is questionable does not justify the statement being on wikipedia? No hostility meant btw. Blitzoace (talk) 01:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Latest press release I have seen describes the aircraft as third generation! Not sure how far you can go with speculation in a factual encyclopedia, if it is reworded to say that the source speculates rather than us doing original research, just need to get the wording right. MilborneOne (talk) 08:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the press release Chinese? Cause in China 3rd gen=4th gen. From what I have read they also don't differentiate between 4(3) and 4+(3+), or else the Su-30MKK and MK2 would be under "3.5".  Blitzoace (talk) 04:10, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry this was the source for third generation comment http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2009/05/12/China-sells-J-10A-to-developing-nations-for-oil/UPI-64981242155123/ MilborneOne (talk) 11:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No need to apologise lol. Hmm first the title, of the article is... questionable. I personally don't trust anything on UPI on most Chinese development stuff. Also, be wary of any aritlces by Andrei Chang. Most are extremely anti China (and pro russian) and lack any convincing facts. Like, I have not heard from anywhere about China willing to sell it's J-10 apart from to Pakistan at the moment. (Andrei Chang is Chinese btw, but he's a self hater so I would just be a bit wary of his articles related to China. Also is there a way of determining whether a reference deserves to be put on wikipedia or not? or is it just talk page concensus?)Blitzoace (talk) 04:10, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Noted doesnt sound particularly reliable - normally talk page consensus would do but you can ask at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard for other opinions. MilborneOne (talk) 11:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Another source which classifies J-10 as a 4th generation aircraft and J-10B as 4.5 gen. . Well, the generation is pretty confusing. --Johnxxx9 (talk) 11:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a quick statement, there is nothing wrong with a self hater, or haters of any kind. A fact is a fact, no matter in whose mouth it came from. Now, if he provides no evidence, then you may disregard it. But do not provide special treatment just because he has an agenda. China does indeed differentiate 3+ with 3rd generation, by saying it is close to 4th generation. In China, 1st Generation = 1st + 2nd Generation, 2nd Generation = 3rd Generation, 3rd Generation = 4th Generation, 4th Generation = 5th Generation. Of course this isn't concrete. It is just a rough equivalence. To them, 1st Generation = <Mach1, or Near Mach1 (mig-15). 2nd Generation is Mach2-Mach3 (mig-21, Mig-23, F-4), 3rd Generation is a jet without a highspeed requirements, and focuses more on A2A combat(F-16, Mig-29, Mirage-2000, Su-27), 4th Generation contains Stealth (F-22). Essentially, J-10 falls within 3rd Generation, a 4th Generation equivalence. Source: CCTV Documentary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4JYQTep3q8)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.21.176 (talk) 05:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: J-10 Generation and radar

message: Has the J-10 entered active service with the Pakistani Air Force yet?  I mean, they should have a few planes by now for operational testing but it's as if there's a drought of information regarding what the Pakistanis are doing with their J-10s.  (Psychoneko (talk) 12:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Active Service?

message: I messed around with the layout, does it look any better? I want to clean up the engine section first, it is full of stuff that can be deleted or moved to the WS-10 article. Hj108 (talk) 12:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK so far, perhaps the speculative radar section could do with a cull after the engine section! MilborneOne (talk) 13:08, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Moved all the rubbish in the Engine section to the WS-10 article, so I'll have to clean up that too. Need sources for it though. Deleted all the random radar stuff in Radar section. How does it look? Hj108 (talk) 15:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks a lot better, thanks for the hard work - want to try and have a go at some of the rubbish in Electro-optical systems! MilborneOne (talk) 17:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Also sorted out the ECM and Airframe sections. Hj108 (talk) 15:17, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

text: Re-written the HUD and flight instrumentation sections. There's just the development section left... Hj108 (talk) 11:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleaning up the article

message: China intends to export the J-10 after developing an upgraded version:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/09/30/332905/chinas-avic-steps-up-sales-push-for-fc-1-j-10-fighters.html
--Hj108 (talk) 11:52, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Source on J-10 exports

message: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XSq8wBmw_g
Summary:
:J-10 and F-16C/D are on par with Avionics (generation, with J-10 leading slightly), and cost of purchase and maintanance (although F-16 is stated to be slightly Cheaper)
:F-16C/D is superior to J-10 in BvR engagements * J-10's radar is less advanced as the F-16C/D, and lacks the range and simultaneous target tracking
:J-10 is Superior to F-16C/D in terms of Maneuverability
:F-16 is Superior to J-10 in terms of mission capability and readiness(i.e. extreme environments)
"Important note here is that J-10 apparently cannot operate under extremely hot temperatures, and cannot operate in extremely cold, and or snow/icy environments that F-16C/D can.
This is by the state media, so it should count as some weight. I am not sure about the exact data as my Chinese isn't that good.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.21.176 (talk) 01:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: CCTV comparison of J-10 and F-16C/D

message: Part of the text says, "the rumoured crash has been denied...", but there's nothing to indicate what crash or rumours of crashes is being referred to. - The Bushranger (talk) 02:30, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Whats this then? http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/03/j-10-down.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.21.176 (talk) 05:14, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Crash rumours?

message: Hoping to head off a possible edit/revert war at the pass, I did a bit of googling, and found some interesting results.
It seems there's a Yaesu antenna tuner(!) named "FC-20", and "FC-10" includes a Chinese fluorochemical alcohol company(!!), so I refined things a bit...
*FC-20 228,000 hits, "FC-20" China 16,200 hits; "FC-20" China aircraft 7,000 hits
*FC-10 338,000 hits; "FC-10" China 22,200 hits; "FC-10" China aircraft 1,630 hits
*FC-10A 4,290 hits; "FC-10A" China 563 hits; "FC-10A" China aircraft 28 hits
...however confusing things is the claim I saw on a Pakistani defense forum, that  "FC-10/10A" refers to the export J-10A, and "FC-20" to the export J-10B...
It seems that, until the Chinese actually start telling people what they call the export version of their fighter (which might help their sales!) "FC-20" is most likely to be the correct designation. - The Bushranger (talk) 13:35, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Export version designation

message: I have protected the article due to the edit waring over numbers in infobox, can editors please discuss and gain consensus on this talk page, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 06:55, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Protection removed following talk page consensus below. MilborneOne (talk) 11:05, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Protection

message: * http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles2006/20061015201536.asp
* http://www.defpro.com/news/details/15125/
The first reference above, titled "J-10C Ground Attack Aircraft", claims "It appears that the J10 does not perform as well as the Su-27 for air combat, so the Chinese are reconfiguring the aircraft as a fighter-bomber." I don't see how this article can be accurate when it includes such speculation in its conclusion, how can the author know how the J-10 performs if the aeroplane has only been seen flying in Chinese news agency videos, a flying display at the Zhuhai Air Show and in photographs by Chinese enthusiasts?
The second reference, "China tries to hide J-10 fighter crashes", states that  "the pitfalls of reverse engineering without paying royalty and truly understanding the technology are high accident rates, a fact that China has hushed up with its lack of media freedom." Firstly, nobody except the manufacturers and the Chinese military know how much of the aircraft is reverse-engineered and how much is Chinese-designed and the article does not elaborate on this. Secondly, claims that the aircraft's development was assisted by Israel (cite: Richard Fisher's article stating the FBW system was developed by Israel) indicate that the Chinese must have paid the Israelis for their assistance, not simply reverse-engineered foreign systems "without paying royalty" as the article states. Thirdly, the article cites "StrategyPage.com" as a source and my above comments indicate this also is not a reliable reference. Fourthly, the article cites the website "FighterPlanes.com" as a source, which appears to be an amateur website claiming in its J-10 article that "Some US military analysts believe that J-10 could pose a serious challenge to the F/A-18E in terms of maneuverability" but the defpro.com article doesn't mention this, rather it claims that the aircraft is badly designed.
I believe the above two references should be removed and more respectable references found.
--Hj108 (talk) 17:09, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of non-neutral references

message: I'm changing the specifications to those in this picture: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?172920-J-10-fighter-enters-international-market-at-40-million/page4 Most of these pictures have been corroborated by other news reports, and I'm fairly sure that these details are correct. Instr (talk) 12:06, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately forums and blogs are not reliable sources of information.  If you can find this information elsewhere from more reputable sources then it would be more appropriate. -Nem1yan (talk) 13:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's please discuss this here before an edit war breaks out. The length, width, and combat radius information are provided by Richard Fisher, the defense analyst. As far as the other material goes; the forum is a direct link to a picture of a placade at a Chinese aviation museum outside Beijing. The third picture is from Chinese government information provided with their August 1st airshow team. If you want me to hunt down the primary material instead, I can go to that. 24.90.32.167 (talk) 16:03, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The information from aviation week is fine, but the blog source cant be used.  Also if you could find a better image of that poster (one that showed the entire poster instead of just one section) it could be added to the page. -Nem1yan (talk) 03:40, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Specifications Change

message: The section about the faked footage isn't directly about the J-10 aircraft. It may warrant inclusion in the air force article - if it was their fakery - and / or the television channel which aired it. I have removed it. (Hohum @) 21:54, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Originally I was more for keeping it, but you have a point.  It isnt really all that notable either way. -Nem1yan (talk) 21:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: How about some advice on where to put the material before deleting it. The 2011 in the People's Republic of China timeline is linked to here currently. Benjwong (talk) 03:51, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As (Hohum @) suggested it should either be included in the air force article or the television channel that faked it.  There is fake media of Su-37s and Su-47s taking down Raptors but that certainly isnt worth noting in the F-22 article.  Also every scrap of media isnt exactly notable.  The video clip in question wasnt even of high quality, practically anyone could scrap together that film.  Unless there is information showing that Chengdu was involved in creation or distribution of the clip then there is no reason to include it here. -Nem1yan (talk) 03:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

text: *Besides, I quote a line from the article page of CCTV: "it reports directly to high-level officials in the Propaganda Department of the Communist Party of China", making it very clear who pulls the string here. Let me again paraphrase a line from somewhere in the movie world: "Let's dispense with the bull, shall we?" --Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 17:14, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Fake footage

message: There are ongoing tests for conformal ful tanks for the J-10.
http://asian-defence.blogspot.com/2011/02/chinese-j-10-fighter-with-conformal.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.212.187 (talk) 12:52, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: How is a blog run by "YASIR007.IN@GMAIL.COM" a WP:RELIABLE source? (Hohum @) 13:25, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This photo is available in enough places to suggest that they are indeed testing it. I dont know whether or not it should be added without a better source however. -Nem1yan (talk) 14:29, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: All information needs to be reliably sourced. (Hohum @) 15:13, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Technically isnt the image by itself somewhat reliable?  As long as the wording is clear ("images have surfaced of a J-10 wind-tunnel model with conformal fuel tanks") for example.  While I agree that sources need to be reliable and of decent quality an "all or nothing" stance with Chinese articles would leave a lot of blank pages, especially since their airforce seems to be explicitly against any sort of formal statements about their business and technology. -Nem1yan (talk) 00:58, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Conformal fuel tanks - how do we know, the problem with using images as a source is we dont actually now what the model represents or what any non-standard feature is and we are assuming that the image is a J-10. All original research. MilborneOne (talk) 17:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Conformal fuel tanks

message: *For the laymen out there, please note that:
#Fighter aircraft = :zh:战斗机 is the term used by the Chinese speaking world-at-large while :zh:歼击机 is the term used mainly in mainland China and is often transliterated as "Annihilator" instead of "Fighter".
#Interceptor aircraft = :zh:拦截机 is the term used by the Chinese speaking world-at-large while :zh:截击机 is the term used mainly in mainland China
Another good example to illustrate this type of subtle difference is:
#Aircraft = :zh:航空器
#Airplane = :zh:飞机
Since this article is about a China-made aircraft, it naturally has to follow their naming method. --Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 02:20, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The J in J-5/6/7/8/10/20

message: An image used in this article, File:J10proto2.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files missing permission as of 9 October 2011 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 17:31, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:J10proto2.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: An image used in this article, File:J10rocket.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files missing permission as of 9 October 2011 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 17:31, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:J10rocket.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: An image used in this article, File:J10cockpit2.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 17:51, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:J10cockpit2.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: An image used in this article, File:J10weapons3.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 17:52, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:J10weapons3.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: An image used in this article, File:J10weapons4.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 17:52, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:J10weapons4.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: An image used in this article, File:J10srefuel.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 17:53, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:J10srefuel.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: Normal to show in the lead the names of aircraft in the original language but I dont know why all the other names in the article are also in chinese as well, I will go through and remove them soon but thought I would mention it first in case I missed why this article is an exception? MilborneOne (talk) 19:30, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Well, I guess it's a wee bit too late now, eh? --Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 19:50, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry Dave but I couldnt see much point - but then I have been known to be wrong. Finished a tidy up but it could do with somebody else checking that it still makes sense, removed a lot of guff and tried to make it read better but some bits still need descent references. MilborneOne (talk) 20:24, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Chinese characters

message: An image used in this article, File:J-10 3view.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:J-10 3view.jpg)
This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 17:12, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:J-10 3view.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant 
This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 14:02, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:J-10a zhas.png Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted.
Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia.
This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link.
If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting.
If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page.
If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta.
When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags.
The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true.
Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
*http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/j-10/
*:Triggered by \bairforce-technology\.com\b on the local blacklist
If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II NotifyOnline 12:04, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the statament.--Bolzanobozen (talk) 14:09, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 

message: Concerning the use of these sources:
#http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/eastern-arsenal/j-10b-%E2%80%9Cvigorous-dragon%E2%80%9D-fighter-jets-are-full-set-soon-be-regiment
#http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.ca/p/fighters-ii.html
#http://www.grandestrategy.com/2009/04/559695923848203-dragons-new-claws-j-10b.html
Typical of articles in the Eastern Arsenal series, (1) makes many claims and fails to say where these are from (); my guess is these are likely drawing from enthusiast sources (i.e. non-expert, and haven't been vetted by experts.) This is a problem since Popular Science isn't a publication which can be regarded as an professional/expert in the topic area. Of the two authors, only Singer seems to have notable publication history, although it doesn't seem to indicate any particular expertise in the Chinese military hardware developments. Lin is complete no-name. PopSci should be used as a jump off point to locate reliable expert sources, not used itself; in other words, if there's something to what it says, an expert publication should have it. - RovingPersonalityConstruct (talk, contribs) 02:34, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: 4 Sept 2015

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Chengdu J-10. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070329052709/http://www.sinodefence.com:80/airforce/fighter/j10.asp to http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100301235212/http://www.sinodefence.com:80/airforce/fighter/j10.asp to http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10.asp
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 21:29, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Chengdu J-10. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080705221513/http://aviationearth.com/Theory/deltawing.html to http://aviationearth.com/Theory/deltawing.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130308080234/http://www.cannews.com.cn:80/2009/0322/5774.html to http://www.cannews.com.cn/2009/0322/5774.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070329052709/http://www.sinodefence.com:80/airforce/fighter/j10.asp to http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060413201915/http://www.stormpages.com:80/jetfight/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm to http://www.stormpages.com/jetfight/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:30, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on Chengdu J-10. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%2F02%2F23%2Fstory_23-2-2006_pg7_50
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130824235929/http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011/Jul/31/china-to-give-squadron-of-j10-b-fighters-to-pakistan-39.asp to http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011/jul/31/china-to-give-squadron-of-j10-b-fighters-to-pakistan-39.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150206045148/http://www.fxingw.com/wwjx/2012-05-14/22032.html to http://www.fxingw.com/wwjx/2012-05-14/22032.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121230142953/http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.265/pub_detail.asp to http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubid.265/pub_detail.asp
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10.asp
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.stormpages.com/jetfight/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:48, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Chengdu J-10. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131031194002/http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Pakistan/China-to-give-squadron-of-J10-B-fighters-to-Pakistan/Article1-727421.aspx to http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Pakistan/China-to-give-squadron-of-J10-B-fighters-to-Pakistan/Article1-727421.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150206054535/http://www.liangjian.com/news/201112/6344_5.html to http://www.liangjian.com/news/201112/6344_5.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130921063158/http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10b.asp to http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10b.asp
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:42, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:22, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: Concerning this edit/readdition by Special:Contributions/119.74.167.46:
1. The additional link to the J-9 article is unncessary per MOS:REPEATLINK; there already exists a link in the body text to the J-9 article a few paragraphs above.
2a. The addition that reads "the idea for this configuration came from the Saab Viggen" is associated with this source. From what I can tell that source says that China developed the dual-canard layout independently, being one of many countries looking at that configuration at the time. Presumably this is why the SITC article Research, Development, and Acquisition in China’s Aviation Industry says the J-10's layout is "Viggen-like", and not something like "Viggen inspired". So the addition seems to be original research (Wikipedia:No original research.)
2b. The addition was apparently pulled from the J-9 article, per the edit summary of a prior edit . There are two problems with this. First, it assumes that Wikipedia is a reliable source which, per WP:CIRCULAR in Wikipedia:Verifiability, it is not. Second, the claim cannot be verified as the J-9 article is completely unreferenced (which is a problem unto itself, a problem that is best not allowed to leak into the J-10 article.)
3. I would also opine that the connection text "But this was clarified by members of the J-10's design team" doesn't work, since what follows is not solely from the design team. The SITC article does not attribute its claims to the design team in its historical overview. With what follows the SITC-sourced part, the connection text is inappropriate where it is, and unnecessary afterward. Perhaps just replacing it with "However" would make it clear that what follows the first sentence is the response.
Given the above, a revert seems to be in order. - RovingPersonalityConstruct (talk, contribs) 06:45, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: February 2022