Talk:Joseph Stalin/Archive 7

message: __FORCETOC__
I'm no expert on Stalin, but I was surprised to read that there was any doubt about Nadezhda Alliluyeva Stalin's suicide in 1932. According to the description related by Svetlana Alliluyeva in "Twenty Letters to a Friend" (1967), Stalin remained at the dinner party until after his wife's death, and was very shocked by the news the next morning.
Sca 18:54, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

message: I'm far from being a stickler for political correctness or sensitivity, but I do think the article sounds quite odd, since everyone who dies is "shot," as opposed to killed, executed, assassinated, etc. It becomes annoying and somewhat amusing even once you realize it's not actually conveying any information, just being used as a generic word for "killed".
One could almost see it as a form of bias, since it may lead the reader to think more violently of Stalin's purges.
Ntvecho 04:44, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Execution Phrasing 

message: STALIN IS A PSYCHOPATH, REPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATHS OF MORE THAN 20 MILLION PEOPLE. During Joseph Stalin’s reign of terror in Russia and the Soviet Republics his regime killed or starved an estimated 15 million peasants, 5 million Ukrainians, 200,000 Jews; and as many as 3 million enemies of the state. AND THAT NUMBER DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE WAR DEATHS OF WHICH HE DIRECTLY CAUSED MORE THAN A THIRD OF THE TOTAL CASUALTIES (THE SOVIET WAR DEATHS WERE NOT ALL DUE TO THE GERMANS).
:Stalin was undoubtedly responsible for the deaths of many millions of people, but where does the "60 million" come from? Fresh-air? Of the top of your head? Not even The Black Book of Communism claims such a figure. If you're going to contribute, even on talk pages, you have to state your sources. Camillustalk|contribs 12:23, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment to last comment: "60" refers to the text that existed before the anon corrected HIS SHOUTING TEXT. mikka (t) 03:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Look past your emotional outburst, and notice that the article does what it is supposed to to perfectly- explore the historical significance of Stalin. We all agree that Stalin murdered millions, but his accomplishments are far greater. Stalin murdering millions didnt influence history nearly as much as his acomplishments. He transformed the Soviet Union faster than any other country in history- period. A testament to that is found by the fact that just now, over 25% of Russians want Stalin back. Straight from the horse's mouth guys, about whether it's more important to have economic growth and stability, creating a world power, or having democaracy, but economic development only for the rich, while the masses are ignored. AuNO3
----
Stalin's only lasting legacy will be the Oder-Neisse Line.
Sca 18:49, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Interestingly enough, Russians refer to Alexander the 'great' simply as Alexander the Macedon. I like that better. Dietwald 20:30, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  A MASS-MURDERER 

message: why did you block me? what does this mean? caught doing what?--Archive13 23:21, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The above message relates to a misunderstanding caused by a vandal.  See here for more information. Thanks. --Canderson7 00:10, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  I don't understand 

message: deleted entire BS paragraph about mass abuse, rapes and "genocide" against Germans in 45, I.Erenburg calls for hatred (Gobbels lies), etc, etc.
Some atrocities, however, happened, on much lower rating, mostly stealing and looting, but not mass murders and rapes. If you have detailed info, please add it. Took confirmation of this from "Battle of Berlin" article.
Good info about Soviet attitude to Germans are present at www.iremember.ru (only Russian-language).
:I have not seen the paragraph. However, while Ehrenburg most likely did NOT write the "kill" leaflet, rape WAS common during the advace of the Soviet army. Interestingly enough, you did not sign your 'contribution'. IF anybody knows about this paragraph, please be so kind and put it at least into the talk-pages so it can be discussed. It may NOT be erlevant to the topic of Stalin, but it's pretty revisionist (meanig: denial-istic) to claim those things did not happen. The Soviet Army was pretty rough, which was partially in response to the atrocities committed by the Germans in Russia, but also because the Soviet Army was a draft army, with pretty bad discipline, and a high tolerance for excess towards it's own people, not to mention others. Dietwald 19:10, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Although it has been adequately supported by historical evidence that the Red Army committed mass rape, among other atrocities, such as execution of civilians, during its advance towards Berlin, it has also been quite conclusively shown that the Nazis, when advancing into the USSR, in the initial phase of their East campaign, committed mass slaughter on a much higher scale (and rape on a lesser scale). The Nazis started the ball rolling in the theatre of death and destruction. It has never been suggested that "the Russians started it first", as you seem to be implying. (You're invoking "mutilation of corpses". But this would never be excuse enough for destroying a village for it. See the Kandanos incident in occupied Crete, Greece, for instance.) Historians seem to agree that the Nazis behaved much more criminally towards the civilian population when they entered into the USSR, than the Russians when they entered Germany. It is only that the Russians' own atrocities have not been acknowledged enough until relatively recently, on account of the prevalent anti-Nazi sentiment. The Gnome 06:15, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Army raping German females... 

message: So don't think you're going to be pulling any fast ones on me--Here I come to save the world 19:23, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm on the job 

message: It has been said that, originally, "Stalin" was a conspiratorial nickname which stuck with him.  Who said this?  This sounds like weasel wording.  Rhesusman 06:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name "Stalin" 

message: The other day, someone went through this article and practically wiki-linked every second word. Can we please stop this? For example, the word "bar", the word "books"...I could go on and on...
Do we really think that someone would look up Stalin, and then while reading the article, have the urge to link to the article on "bar" with its myriad meanings, or the generic "books"?
I do hope that this is not gonna become a trend...it adds nothing to any article.
Camillustalk|contribs 10:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excessive Wikification 

message: I'll probably be accused of being a Stalin-apologist for saying this (which I'm evidently not - see my user page for my contributions), but I don't know if it's accurate to describe Stalin's answer to the excesses of the first wave of collectivisation as a "tactical retreat". To quote from his "Reply to Collective Farm Comrades" (cited in article):
*"Is not the fight against the distortions of the Party line a step backward, a retreat?
:Of course not! Only those who regard the continuation of mistakes and distortions as an offensive, and the fight against errors as a retreat, can think of this as a retreat. To wage an offensive by piling up mistakes and distortions - that would be a fine "offensive" indeed."
Camillustalk|contribs 10:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  tactical retreats? 

message: Can we please stop this vandal who refuses to use the Talk page, from re-inserting a passage that has already been thoroughly debunked here, in the section titled "Awful"?
Your help is much appreciated. -- Simonides 00:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ruy Lopez's vandalism 

message: the birthdate shown in the separate frame in the first title block says december 18, 1878, when it is factually december 21, 1878, i tried editing that myself, however could not, due to separate framing
:We have found the burden of proof of his birthday to be December 18, 1878. The other possible date is December 21, 1879, which has been discredited.--Fallout boy 03:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stalin's Birthdate 

message: "Stalin became general secretary of the Soviet Communist Party in 1922" 
An anon added the word 'vice' here. True or false? I don't know enough on the subject to know which is right. 23:58, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No,it's an error, or a deliberate lie. Camillustalk|contribs 00:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anon editing. Sneaky-lies or correction? 

message: The Marriages and family section starts with the son of his second wife. It should start at least with his first wife, who seems to be not mentioned except in an image.  McKay (talk) 05:38, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ekaterina Svanidze and Yakov are already both mentioned at the top of the non-Lead portion of the article in the Stalin before the Revolution section.Mosedschurte (talk) 06:04, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, but a brief summary should be here too.  McKay (talk) 06:27, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really see the need for repetition, but I changed the first part of the first sentence to "Stalin's son Yakov, whom he had with his first wife Ekaterina Svanidze, . . . " Mosedschurte (talk) 08:20, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marriages and family 

message: The section "Questionable tactics" should be renamed to "War crimes" or "Possible war crimes" if that's more NPOV because in context of the surrounding WWII sections, a discussion of tactics during battlefield operation would be expected under a section titled "Questionable tactics".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.205.147 (talk) 22:35, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questionable tactics 

message: which one is it?Tallicfan20 (talk) 03:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Josef or Joseph? 

message: The section on Sino-Soviet relations is not very good. The article should point out that Stalin originally supported Chiang Kai-Shek as a bulwark against Japan. And it should also point that Stalin was less than enthusiastic in supporting the Chinese Communists Revolution against Chiang and originally instructed Mao to cooperate with Chiang. Even after Mao controlled the government of China and Stalin and Mao became allies they neve never did get along.  --192.251.163.201 (talk) 19:10, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sino-Soviet Relations 

message: and the author can't even get the name right?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.130.215.137 (talk) 07:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  All these references ... 

message: I doubt that he was an atheist  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.190.195.86 (talk) 20:48, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you feel this to be true/false you will need to accompany a reference with it. The signs point towards atheism, however, due in part to political policy. --69.239.175.29 (talk) 19:17, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there English sources about him being an atheist too?? Can we actually decide between him being a non-believer and him being afraid of the power of the churches??
 Of course he was an atheist. Read his essay on Dialectical & Historical Materialism.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevenjp (talk • contribs) 14:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atheist? 

message: It seems that the map in the article is not correct. Obviously somebody has tried to suggest, that Romania wasn't communist and part of the Eastern bloc, which is, of course, not true. The following version would be more appropriate:
141.30.216.38 (talk) 13:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody who can do that? 141.30.216.38 (talk) 16:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The map 

message: what is "President of the USSR? that position never existed until Gorbachev's time....how come it's in the box? it should be removed  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.188.105.25 (talk) 19:52, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  2nd President of the USSR 

message: I'm reading a history of the luxury goods company 'Dunhill by Design: A Very English Story' and there's a bit on page 156 about Stalin of all people. Apparently, this great leader of the Peoples' Republic preferred Dunhill briar pipes. This presented problems during the Blitz, apparently, so he ordered two, so he'd be sure to have a spare. 
Someone had expensive tastes for the leader of a proletariat!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.175.8 (talk) 02:31, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Okay, it's trivia but 

message: Material by Roman Brackman should be removed since it comes from The Secret File of Joseph Stalin: A Hidden Life, which advances the theory that Stalin was really a Czarist agent who infiltrated the Bolsheviks. PasswordUsername (talk) 00:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Material by Roman Brackman 

message: По английски "Скворец"("Starling") произносится как ['Ста:лин] [Сталин]"Сталин"
Starling - [Сталин] - Скворец 
Star-ling
ling-link-ling (лингофонные кабинки связи голосом)
Star - Звезда
Starling - Скворец (pron. [Сталин] 
--------------------------
Сталин - Stalin
Stalin - Сталин
--------------------------
"Ста" - "сто" - "100" - "hundred"
-----------------------------------
"С Талинна" "С Талина" "Сталин"
(From Tallin - From Tallinn - From Talin - Fromtalin)
----------------------------
"Сталь" - "Steel" - [стил]
------------------------------
"Сталь" - "Steel" - [стил]
Steal - [стил] - стянуть, своровать, украсть, стащить
===================================
Stalin - Сталин
Starling - [Сталин] - Скворец
===============================
Blackbird - Чёрный Дрозд
Starling - Скворец (произносится как Сталин)
Т.е. этимология происхождения ника-псевдонима-клички-прозвища "Сталин",
мог быть услышанное английское слово "Скворец" ("Starling")
Я нашла, что окончательный вариант-выбор был сделан в 1912 году. по записям.
Источник-ссылка:
http://zhurnal.lib.ru/c/ckotford_i_a/starling.shtml
Winderrainer (talk) 18:04, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Скворец"[Сталин]/Starling in Russian History 

message: Blackbird - Чёрный Дрозд
Starling - Скворец (произносится как Сталин)
Т.е. этимология происхождения ника-псевдонима-клички-прозвища "Сталин",
мог быть услышанное английское слово "Скворец" ("Starling")
Я нашла, что окончательный вариант-выбор был сделан в 1912 году. по записям.
Источник-ссылка:
http://zhurnal.lib.ru/c/ckotford_i_a/starling.shtml
Winderrainer (talk) 18:04, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: ===================

message: The main image is a photo manipulated picture of Stalin taken by LIFE.  The picture does not belong to the Ukraine.  It was taken with Margaret Bourke-White in August 1941.  
Original:
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=joseph+stalin&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djoseph%2Bstalin%26imgsz%3Dxxlarge%26hl%3Den&imgurl=22dd6db6442f1aef
Distorted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Joseph_Stalin.jpg
The picture was flipped horizontally, tilted and darkened to make him look menacing.
Also if you look of this page's history at the time of the upload of the photo there was disapproval with replacing the original image.  This page was locked up for awhile because of people switching the image.  It was forgotten about and now this photo manipulated image uploaded by someone who hates the man is the main image.  The article should be neutral and we shouldn't have this negative image of him.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.53.90.148 (talk) 17:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The image has been listed for deletion. Óðinn (talk) 05:25, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo Manipulated Image 

message: I did not notice any mention of George Orwell's artistic portrayal of Stalin as the character Napoleon in this article. Did I miss it somewhere? Is this omission intentional due to the incendiary nature of the depiction?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.180.128.164 (talk) 10:21, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Animal Farm 

message: Not sure where and how to place this correctly but there is a factual error:
"Bearing the brunt of the Nazis' attacks, the Soviet Union under Stalin made the largest and most decisive contribution to the defeat of Nazi Germany during World War II (1939–1945)"
This should read (1941-45).  Until this date, the Soviets were allied with the Nazis.  kentish 28 Oct 08
No - the USSR had a Non-Aggression Pact with Germany, i.e. an agreement not to attack each other, which is not the same as an alliance.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevenjp (talk • contribs) 14:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small Error 

message: The references in the lede are not required. According to guidelines, references in the lead are not needed to support non-controversial subjects. Holodomor, population transfer and cult of personality are not more controversial than others excesses of his Stalin's do. I propose to move all references from the lede to the main article.--Paul Siebert (talk) 12:48, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in the lede 

message: Stalin's atheism does not merit being included in his info box. It didn't form a major part of his policies, nor indeed was it a major part of his life.
There is no movement to have atheism removed from the info box. Atheism is major Communist policy. That Stalin attended Seminary school and later became a Communist and Atheist is indeed an important fact about his life. The Church was violently suppressed in the Soviet Union, and Atheism was absoutely an important part of Stalin's policies and life. Even if it weren't, this is standard information included in info boxes. The info box will not be changed.--KatelynJohann (talk) 23:03, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Movement to have atheism removed from info box 

message: Section : Questionable tactics
"pursuant to a note from to Stalin from Lavrenty Beria"  to, from, to, from....  which one is which ?
216.221.33.190 (talk) 19:03, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect formulation