Talk:David A. Noebel

message: I changed "Today, countless Christian youth have fallen victim to the popular ideas of our modern world. Most have adopted these ideas into their own worldview, while still others go on to renounce their Christian faith altogether." to "He believes that today, countless Christian youth have fallen victim to the popular ideas of our modern world, and that most have adopted these ideas into their own worldview, while still others go on to renounce their Christian faith altogether." 192.59.23.137 (talk) 17:28, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I have read two of Noebel's books, The Marxist Minstrels and The Legacy of John Lennon, and skimmed some of his others. They are textbook examples of logical fallacies (straw-man and ad hominem in particular) taken to the extreme, while Noebel himself "preaches to the choir" and appears to count more on his reading audience's naiveté than their knowledge or reasoning skills. Marxist Minstrels in particular is a hoot on many levels, in its attempts to posit the Beatles, Bob Dylan and other popular musicians as the leaders (consciously or unconsciously) of a supposed movement to soften up young fans of pop and rock music to accept hardline Communism, or recruit them to the Communist cause. (It gets even funnier with the perspective of history.)
Noebel's "exposés" consist largely of quotes taken out of context (some selectively edited or "bleeped", to support his points), equivocation (such as presenting a John Lennon quote, "If people can't face up to the fact of other people being naked or smoking pot, then we're never going to get anywhere", as a call by Lennon for everyone to go around naked and use marijuana), composition (if one member of a group did something, then they all must have done it, and wanted their followers to do likewise) and guilt by association, appeals to authority (Reverend Whatsit said it about them, therefore it must be true, because Reverend Whatsit wouldn't lie), false dilemmas (since so-and-so never issued a statement against something, they are obviously for it), treating offhand remarks as formal declarative statements and temporary situations as permanent conditions, and the like. (The Marxist Minstrels spent about as many pages discussing Bob Dylan's bathing habits in his prefame days as it did discussing his expressed beliefs later.)
Noebel does make extensive use of footnotes... but his later books tend to cite (and thereby plug) his earlier ones, while the earlier ones cite sources that don't support his claims when viewed in context. In trying to check his research, I discovered something interesting, through a phone call to his office: I was told that Noebel has a habit of throwing away his notes and materials once his manuscripts are complete, so it's not surprising that he would turn to his own extant works (rather than re-examine source materials) as sources for quotes and information.
While none of the foregoing is usable in a Wikipedia sense (as original research), it may provide a starting point for someone to possibly expose the "exposer" at a future date. I only wish I had the time. Zephyrad (talk) 06:42, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: December 2009

message: Would anyone who understands Wikipedia and this article care to add a recording which captures Noebel's thinking and style: 
http://archive.org/details/DavidNoebel-MarxistMinstrelsCommunistSubversionOfAmericanFolkMusic
EdRicardo (talk) 12:18, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add a recording link 

message: Particularly in the beginning, the text seems to puff this gentleman up quite a bit, and the sources are really weak. Haven't there been any writers or reporters who have done a better job in assessing this man? BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 21:28, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Check for POV 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090830071450/http://www.summit.org/resources/av/radio/2008/03/when_professors_become_digress.php to http://www.summit.org/resources/av/radio/2008/03/when_professors_become_digress.php
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071028103854/http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/bio.php/10/David_Noebel to http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/bio.php/10/David_Noebel
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)