Talk:Grand Duchy of Tuscany

message: I found the coat of arms of Grand Duke Leopold I on Commons.
(Jack1755 (talk) 15:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Coat of Arms

message: :This review is transcluded from Talk:Grand Duchy of Tuscany/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Hello! I will be reviewing this article for possible GA status. I will be taking great care during this GA Review, so please be patient. Thanks! Monsieurdl mon talk 21:14, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Review 

message: GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
#Is it reasonably well written?
#:A. Prose quality:  
#:: 
#:B. MoS compliance: 
#:: 
#Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
#:A. References to sources:  
#:: 
#:B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:  
#:: 
#:C. No original research: 
#:: 
#Is it broad in its coverage?
#:A. Major aspects:  
#:: 
#:B. Focused: 
#:: 
#Is it neutral?
#:Fair representation without bias: 
#:: 
#Is it stable?
#: No edit wars, etc: 
#:: 
#Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
#:A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:  
#:: 
#:B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions: 
#:: 
#Overall: 
#:Pass or Fail: 
Although I failed it due to a large amount of prose problems and sourcing issues, I will still be noting more corrections that need to be made- I can't simply just stop here. This article can be GA with the proper changes in time. Monsieurdl mon talk 23:55, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Review summary

message: ===Writing and formatting===
====Infobox====
*Remove the parentheses for both dates at the top of the infobox.
*"Megred to form the United Provinces of Central Italy" should be merged.
====Lead====
*Main articles should be consolidated into one line, not each one having their own dedicated line.
*This sentence in the lead is very long and quite confusing: "The grand duchy consisted of most of the territory of the current Italian region of Tuscany, with the exception of the northernmost portions, which formed the Duchy of Massa, the Principality of Carrara, the cities of Orbetello, Porto Ercole, Porto Santo Stefano, Talamone, Ansedonia and Porto Longone, which formed the State of Presidi (up to 1815), and the Republic and then the Duchy of Lucca (up to 1847)." An exception, then formed, and then which formed- I got lost easily.
:Fixed -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed, but does it say that in the MOS?  -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Ok, fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Done. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Well, according to WP:Linking, "the names of major geographic features and locations" shouldn't be linked. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: I elaborated. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 02:21, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: The infobox won't allow it. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:43, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed this one myself- the infobox itself doesn't allow inline references with numeric data; I had to use the footnotes value. Monsieurdl mon talk 19:56, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Done. Laurinavicius (talk) 15:36, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Done. Laurinavicius (talk) 15:45, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Done. Laurinavicius (talk) 16:12, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you know it violates NPOV?  This might be the consensus view (or it might not, but you don't know that until we can get sources on the matter. john k (talk) 16:07, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: What needs to be fixed, noted as best as possible

message: ====Infobox====
*Remove the parentheses for both dates at the top of the infobox.
*"Megred to form the United Provinces of Central Italy" should be merged.
====Lead====
*Main articles should be consolidated into one line, not each one having their own dedicated line.
*This sentence in the lead is very long and quite confusing: "The grand duchy consisted of most of the territory of the current Italian region of Tuscany, with the exception of the northernmost portions, which formed the Duchy of Massa, the Principality of Carrara, the cities of Orbetello, Porto Ercole, Porto Santo Stefano, Talamone, Ansedonia and Porto Longone, which formed the State of Presidi (up to 1815), and the Republic and then the Duchy of Lucca (up to 1847)." An exception, then formed, and then which formed- I got lost easily.
:Fixed -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed, but does it say that in the MOS?  -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Ok, fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Done. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Well, according to WP:Linking, "the names of major geographic features and locations" shouldn't be linked. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: I elaborated. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 02:21, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Writing and formatting

message: *Main articles should be consolidated into one line, not each one having their own dedicated line.
*This sentence in the lead is very long and quite confusing: "The grand duchy consisted of most of the territory of the current Italian region of Tuscany, with the exception of the northernmost portions, which formed the Duchy of Massa, the Principality of Carrara, the cities of Orbetello, Porto Ercole, Porto Santo Stefano, Talamone, Ansedonia and Porto Longone, which formed the State of Presidi (up to 1815), and the Republic and then the Duchy of Lucca (up to 1847)." An exception, then formed, and then which formed- I got lost easily.
:Fixed -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed, but does it say that in the MOS?  -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: *Get rid of the parentheses that really take away from the writing, and weave them into your sentences.
*Foundation, paragraph 2: "Cosimo instigated naval reforms" shouldn't be halted by a semicolon.
:Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Ok, fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Done. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Well, according to WP:Linking, "the names of major geographic features and locations" shouldn't be linked. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: I elaborated. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 02:21, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Laurinavicius (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Main article

message: ====Infobox====
*Reference [2] should be at the end of the population, not after the year, for both are being sourced, not just the year.
:The infobox won't allow it. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:43, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed this one myself- the infobox itself doesn't allow inline references with numeric data; I had to use the footnotes value. Monsieurdl mon talk 19:56, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Done. Laurinavicius (talk) 15:36, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Done. Laurinavicius (talk) 15:45, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Done. Laurinavicius (talk) 16:12, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Accuracy and verifiability

message: *Reference [2] should be at the end of the population, not after the year, for both are being sourced, not just the year.
:The infobox won't allow it. -- Jack1755 (talk) 16:43, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed this one myself- the infobox itself doesn't allow inline references with numeric data; I had to use the footnotes value. Monsieurdl mon talk 19:56, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: *Reference [4] is not properly sourced according to proper inline citation format.
*Foundation, paragraph 1 needs two citations- especially for Highness and the proclamation of Duke by his alleged father. Also, some information about this parental connection would be nice- alleged is a bad word to use anyways without sourcing.
*Francesco and Ferdinando I, paragraph 1: "Francesco is best remembered for dying the same day as his second wife, Bianca Cappello, spurring forth rumours of poisoning. He was succeeded by Ferdinando de' Medici, his younger brother whom he loathed."- both need to be sourced.
:Done. Laurinavicius (talk) 15:36, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Laurinavicius (talk) 15:45, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Done. Laurinavicius (talk) 16:12, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Article

message: *Foundation, paragraph 4: "Cosimo's reign was one of the most militaristic Tuscany had ever seen." is not only unsourced, but violates WP:NPOV.
::How do you know it violates NPOV?  This might be the consensus view (or it might not, but you don't know that until we can get sources on the matter. john k (talk) 16:07, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality

message: Shouldn't the annexation by the Kingdom of Sardinia on March 22, 1860, be mentioned.  I would say this, much more than whatever actions were taken by the de facto government in 1859, marks the end of the grand duchy.  Until that point there was a very real possibility the grand duke would be restored, and most governments continued to accept his representatives as the legitimate diplomatic representatives of Tuscany.  I believe, also, that foreign diplomats in Florence were still accredited to the grand duke, and not to the de facto government.  I tend to think the end date should be March 22, 1860, not December 8, 1859.
Beyond that, the discussion of the end of the Grand Duchy is full of inaccuracies.  An accurate description was actually removed and replaced with inaccurate information at some point.  First, some sources on the Risorgimento that deal with this issue:
#Derek Beales & Eugenio F. Biagini, The Risorgimento and the Unification of Italy, 2nd ed. (London, 2002), 119-120 and 270-275
#Edgar Holt, The Making of Italy 1815-1870 (New York, 1971), 209-229.
#Bolton King, A History of Italian Unity, Vol. II, revised ed. (New York, 1924), 84-122
#George Martin, The Red Shirt and the Cross of Savoy (New York, 1969), 492-531.
Next, specific inaccuracies in the current version:
#The war had not actually broken out yet when the revolution occurred in Florence.  The revolution in Florence occurred on April 27.  As Holt says, this revolution "peacefully ejected Grand Duke Leopold II by means of a liberal coup d'état and an army mutiny." The Austrians did not cross the Ticino into Sardinian territory until April 29.   Furthermore, Leopold was not even planning to join the Austrians in the war.  As King says, he was "resolute in his policy of neutrality."  He was overthrown because he would not join in the war against Austria, not because he intended to fight on Austria's side.  So, point 1, Leopold did not support Austria in 1859 - he was not given a chance to because he was expelled before the war began, and he would not have anyway.
#Next, Victor Emmanuel did not "capture" Tuscany, and this did not cause Leopold's flight.  Leopold, as we've seen, had already fled before any military action between Sardinia and Austria had begun, and fled to Mantua, in Austrian territory.  At that point, the provisional government in Florence offered Victor Emmanuel the dictatorship of Tuscany.  Victor Emmanuel refused the position, but accepted command of Tuscan troops; See Martin 498-499.  Per King 85-87, it was French troops, under Napoleon III's cousin Prince Napoleon, who came to Tuscany.  Victor Emmanuel did send a commissioner, General Boncompagni, to act as his representative in Florence, but I don't think its correct to say that Tuscany was occupied by Sardinian troops.
#Next, the peace of Villafranca did allow for the Grand Duke's return, but that return proved impossible in practice.  Leopold was still in Austrian territory when he abdicated on July 21, ten days after Villafranca.  His son, Ferdinand IV, took up the claim, but like his father was unable to actually return to Florence.  The deposition of the family which occurred on August 16 was in absentia - the Habsburgs had been gone since April 27.
This all ought to be corrected. john k (talk) 16:49, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  End date, Factual errors 

message: This has been brought up a couple of times in the GA review, but hasn't been addressed.  This sentence is self-contradictory:
"Until the advent of the House of Lorraine, Tuscany was nominally a state of the Holy Roman Empire until the Peace of Westphalia in 1648.[2]"
I assume that by "advent of the House of Lorraine" the author meant the accession of Francis of Lorraine to the Tuscan (not that this is particularly clear).  This happened in 1737, so the sentence seems to be saying that "Until 1737 Tuscany was nominally part of the HRE until 1648" which obviously doesn't make sense. Which is correct?  My guess would be 1648 as the right date: the Peace of Westphalia did, I believe, formally remove jurisdiction of the HRE from N. Italy; meanwhile Francis was married to the Emperor's daughter, so it doesn't make sense that putting him in charge of the Grand Duchy would separate it from the Empire, does it?  --Jfruh (talk) 18:40, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Peace of Westphalia did not formally remove imperial jurisdiction of Northern Italy.  So far as I'm aware, it didn't address the issue at all.  I think that Northern Italy's status as being nominally part of the Empire, but without any real jurisdiction, basically continued until Napoleon's invasion.  Treaties from the eighteenth century regarding, for example, the succession to Modena, treat northern Italy as still being an imperial fief.  john k (talk) 20:19, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Garbled sentence 

message: I don't quite understand. This means that the Dukes of Florence were not sovereigns?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.63.102 (talk) 17:58, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Thus, the House of Medici had been raised to the rank of sovereigns" 

message: I do not have a clue what is meant by this phrase: "his inaction in international affairs drew Tuscany into the provincial yolk of politics." Were the various Italian states throwing eggs at eachother? It doesn't make any more sense if you replace yolk with yoke. Could somebody who knows what this is about please word it more clearly? Chuntuk (talk) 10:47, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sunny side up? 

message: Template:Grand Ducal Family of Tuscany has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Bsherr (talk) 05:43, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomination for deletion of Template:Grand Ducal Family of Tuscany 

message: ??? DlronW (talk) 20:30, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  the provincial yolk of politics?