Talk:Visconti of Milan

message: Visconti is a surname with a clear meaning - "viscount". The èppoint is: viscount of what, and when? The two families - in Pisa and Milan - were most likely NOT related to each other. AFAIK, the Milanese Visconti came from lesser nobility, their ancestor was lord of Massino Visconti, Albizzate and Besnate. Online I've found to now ZERO sources, apart the redundant and translated Wikipedia itself, claiming a link between the two families. Same surname does not mean automatic kinship, even in the Middle Ages.
Basil II  —Preceding comment was added at 20:58, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Were the Pisan and Milanese Visconti even remotely related?

message: I suggest to separate into a new entry ("Visconti of Milan") the part of the article concerning the Visconti of Milan. As stated above, they are two different families. The corresponding article in italian language (it:Visconti) is entirely devoted the Visconti of Milan. A separate article is about Visconti di Pisa (it:Visconti di Gallura). Naming explicitely the Visconti of Milan and thus keeping three different articles ("Visconti" for disambiguation, "Visconti of Milan", "Visconti of Pisa") seems to me a better solution.  --Bg69 (talk) 08:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded. Sparafucil (talk) 05:48, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separation of the two families (Pisan and Milanese) 

message: The serpent prior to biblical times was a sign of goodness. The human in the mouth of the snake is proposed to be a Saracen who were perceived as evil in Christian history. The symbol therefore depicts the triumph of Good over Evil.
This is a highly problematic caption for a neutral and factual encyclopaedia to allow. It needs immediate editing or it will remain a clear indication of how Wikipedia is becoming corrupted, misleading and unreliable.
To say that because 'prior to Biblical times', ie before circa 70AD at least, the serpent was a sign of goodness, the family who took up this symbol over one thousand years after Biblical times did so in reference to that very ancient and defunct symbology rather than symbology prevailing at that time and for centuries preceding its use is plainly ridiculous. And then to assign this 'good' triumphing over evil' interpretation to the symbol because of that ancient and so irrelevant pre-Biblical symbology is a gob-smacking assault on logic as well as plain old common sense.
If the author is trying to refer to more contemporaneous pagan symbology which survived in varying degrees in those regions, then the author needs to state this clearly with references, or not at all.
The image is very plainly of a human being with the lower half of its body inside the mouth of a serpent/dragon-like creature. To suggest that this is a representation of 'good triumphing over evil' requires a very clear and thoroughly referenced and balanced discussion, which this is absolutely not. In the absence of such a study worthy of an encyclopaedia, I would strongly suggest removing all in that caption following the first sentence ending 'swallowing a human'. It is currently not good at all for Wikipedia's reputation (to put it mildly).
I would suggest similarly amending the fourth paragraph under the heading 'Visconti of Pisa and Sardinia'.  86.141.175.58 (talk) 08:15, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caption under image of Biscione 

message: This article does not mention anything about Bernabò Visconti's daughters, who married into royalty & nobility. Some of them married Cypriot kings  & Bavarian dukes or had descendants who were French & English kings. In what a particularly outlandish wedding, Galeazzo II Visconti's daughter, Violante Visconti, married Lionel of Antwerp, the third son of Edward III of England. Peaceray (talk) 19:23, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about the women? 

message: A couple of days ago an anonymous contributor has added unsupported and inconsistent information in the Family info box and in the first rows of the article. Before selectively reverting it, some arguments are introduced here. 
Family name and houses
As stated in the first lines before the change, Visconti is a family name shared by several different unrelated dynasties. It is therefore improper to assert that "House of Visconti was one of the most important Italian noble dynasties". Details on this are here: Houses of Visconti. As a result of this misunderstanding the unrelated Visconti of Pisa have been added in the info box as cadet branch. 
This change should be reverted. 
Family info box
* Country: enumeration of three countries (Milan, Pisa and Siena) is unsupported by any source neither mentioned in the page. It seems also arbitrary: Why not Genua? Why not other City-state mentioned in the List of Titles? Considering their frequent title of Imperial Vicar, shouldn't be the Holy Roman Empire first in the list? 
* Ethnicity: Italian (with French and Germanic influences). Who said that? From the body of the article only something like this could be inferred: "Italian with Lombard origin". 
* Etymology: It should be better like this: "Viscount; from the Latin vice comes (deputy of the count)". Cf. :wiktionary:viscount  
* Place of Origin: As stated in the Origin section, Massino was acquired in 1134 by Guido Visconti of Milan. The Visconti existed in Milan before 1134 and in Massino only after 1134. Massino is not their Place of Origin. 
* Founded, Founder: How can a founder exists two centuries before the first attestation of family members? Such genealogical connection is unsupported by any source and looks as a mere speculation. 
* Current head: None; extinct; Final head: Bianca Maria Visconti: No Family Head seems ever attested among the Visconti of Milan. 
* Connected families: It’s a complicate topic unfit to be summarized in the info box. Why not to add among the Allies the families of the husbands of the 9 daughters of Bernabò Visconti, not to mention the marriages of the other family members? How can be justified among the Rivals the Della Scala, considering the marriage (a solid one) of Regina Della Scala to Bernabò Visconti? 
* Estate(s): Royal Palace of Milan, Castello Visconteo (Pavia). Why not the Castle of Milan? Why not to the many castles cited in the template:Visconti of Milan, still incomplete of other important castles, for instance Vigevano? 
* Dissolution: 1447 (male line); 1468 (female line). These years consider the end of the rule of the Visconti on Milan, improper here as "dissolution" of the family. 
* Cadet branches: Considering the lineages along about 9 centuries, it is an extremely complicated topic. Before entering any argument, to have an idea of the complexity, one should have a look at Litta, Famiglie celebri Italiane, available at Biblioteca Nazionale Braidense in Milan. Mentioned in the info box should be only the branches documented with a genealogical connection (as the Visconti di Modrone in their article; the other supposed branches have links to towns not families).
--Bg69 (talk) 14:01, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *I've reverted those edits. We need to be careful about inaccurate information in infoboxes. Thanks for posting and for presenting the reasons. Victoriaearle (tk) 17:20, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: About the anonymous contribution of May 3rd 2018

message: It is odd that the Visconti di Modrone branch members are not listed in the Visconti di Modrone article but are instead listed here in Visconti of Milan#Visconti di Modrone. I wanted to discuss this before we undertook moving them. Peaceray (talk) 21:34, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Support: I support the suggestion that parts of that section (branch members of the Visconti di Modrone) be moved (or copied) into Visconti di Modrone, as you see fit. -- Blairall (talk) 00:43, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded. Bg69 (talk) 15:44, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Visconti di Modrone branch members 

message: The Maranghi-Castellini-Baldissera family is not a cadet branch of the Visconti and no relationship between the two families is provided. 
Also the author of the section thinks that "the family should probably have a separate page entirely dedicated to themselves." 
--Bg69 (talk) 22:27, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maranghi-Castellini-Baldissera family 

message: A couple of things:
*I suggest that you try out User:Lingzhi2/reviewsourcecheck in your Special:MyPage/common.js page. It will flag disconnects with Harvard-style referencing with shortened footnotes. For example, it will warn about a shortened footnote that does not actually link to a citation, & vice-versa. Check out , also, as it skips the need for ref tags.
*In , I see that you introduced references to  by . I spotted a couple of problems. The shortened footnote is  but the citation is for 1823, so that is not matching up.:
**
*I did find an online version, although I have not yet found a date of publication due to my inability to navigate BnF Gallica's web interface:
**
*The above in wikitext adding |ref=harv
**
I hope this is helpful. I expect that you & I will be interacting more around the Visconti. BTW, I created the Violante Visconti & translated the Matteo I Visconti articles.
Peaceray (talk) 04:58, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I fixed the publication year. I found 1819-1884 in BnF Gallica and used it. I added also your OCLC and URL. Feel free to make any other improvements. Bg69 (talk) 17:28, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famiglie celebri italiane by Litta