Talk:List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes

message: New York State's Montaukett were terminated in 1918 due to a court case called Pharoah v. Benson.
Pharoah v. Benson wasn't part of the BIA's termination policy from the middle of the 20th century, but it was a tribal termination.  The tribe was previously recognized by the federal government; there's a reference to this in a BIA document (which I would need to dig up to show, unfortunately).
There are multiple branches of the tribe (which is why there's a Montauk tribe and a Montaukett tribe listed).  But this has to do with claims to leadership.
Is there a reason I'm not seeing for why the Montaukett are on this list, when this list isn't supposed to include terminated tribes? 75.128.218.237 (talk) 20:47, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a list of tribes supposedly seeking recognition, but not yet recognized by the Federal government or by any state. Both the Montauk Indian Nation (aka Montaukett Indian Nation of New York) and the Montaukett Tribe of Long Island are listed by the BIA as having presented letters of intent to petition for recogniton (see https://web.archive.org/web/20131212091257/https://www.bia.gov/cs/groups/xofa/documents/text/idc013623.pdf, under New York). - Donald Albury 22:03, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Late to the conversation but why is seeking recognition a caveat? The groups have to be notable enough for reliable sources but I don't understand why seeking recognition would matter. If it was, many of these groups have long stopped actively seeking recognition since they have been soundly denied. Yuchitown (talk) 01:32, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Montaukett? 

message: A user added the White Bear Clan of North and South Carolina as an unrecognized tribe, without providing any reference. There was/is a White Bear Clan in the Tuscarora tribe, which is attested among the Tuscarora that moved north. The clan apparently was created in the early 18th century for a couple of white women who had been adopted into the tribe. A recent source indicates that at least some Tuscarora regard the White Bear Clan as illegitimate. I gather that some Tuscaroras may have stayed in the Carolinas, but without retaining tribal cohesion. I do not know whether any Tuscarora who remained in the Carolinas belonged to the White Bear Clan. In any case, without any source that the White Bear Clan has any actual existance, I removed the edit. - Donald Albury 01:18, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  White Bear Clan 

message: The entry on the Ramapough is inaccurate and should be removed- they are one of New Jersey's 3 state recognized tribes, (along with the Nanticoke Lenape and the Powhatan Renape). They also continue to have representatives on the state's Commission of American Indian Affairs as a result of that status. (Ramapough Mountain Indians is another name for the same tribal government)
Listing alleged details of their Federal Recognition process while ignoring their New Jersey State Recognition is a misleading non sequitur, since the list is only supposed to contain tribes that have no recognition at all. 
There were controversial attempts under Governor Christie to delist all three tribes without due process or consultation with the state's Commission on American Indian Affairs, but the state formally rejected this move and in 2019 NJ Attorney General Gurbir Grewal reaffirmed the other 2 tribes following a major court settlement with the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape to address harms they experienced from Christie's actions. The Ramapough were been acknowledged as having uninterrupted recognition as "American Indian Tribes recognized by the State,” https://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases19/pr20190318b.html (of New Jersey) since 1980. 
Some relevant sources from the New Jersey government and official statements to the press.  
https://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases19/pr20190318b.html
https://www.nj.gov/state/njcaia-about.shtml
https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/ramapough-lenape-and-powhatan-renape-nations-of-new-jersey-have-state-recognition-reaffirmed
https://www.ncsl.org/legislators-staff/legislators/quad-caucus/list-of-federal-and-state-recognized-tribes.aspx#State
 Ciran42 (talk) 02:12, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ramapough Mountain Indians/Ramapough Lenape are one of NJ's three state recognized tribes 

message: I moved the following material from the article to this talk for discussion:
: These tribes can be controversial, and vary greatly in terms of the rigor of their claims to indigeneity. While many of these tribes are considered fraudulent, many still have legitimate claims but are unable to gain recognition due to racial purity laws, which prevented their ancestors from being recorded as Native American, thereby removing the possibility of applying for federal recognition. Tribes originating in states which have both historic racial purity laws, and current policies against recognizing tribes at the state level are in a particularly difficult position, as state recognition is often seen as a pre-requisite to federal recognition.
This statement is misleading since any group can apply for federal recognition; despite Virginia having misleading censuses that did not allow people to identify as being American Indian, Virginia tribes have successfully gained recognition through the formal acknowledgment process (Pamunkey) and through congressional legislation. While some people do mistakenly believe state recognition is somehow related to federal recognition, they are totally independent, since states determine their own processes for recognition; there's no uniformity. While not mentioned in the editorial comment above, the main point of the cited article is that "racial purity specifically requires the demonstrable absence of African-American ancestry." That racist perspective is not part of the criteria for federal recognition (nor is blood quantum unless the tribe itself requires it), and many tribes with significant African-American ancestry have gained federal recognition (including the Pequot, Mashpee Wampanoag, Aquinnah Wampanoag, Shinnecock, and Augustine Cahuilla).
Because there is so much misinformation out there, here are the current seven criteria for federal recognition as a Native American tribe:
# being an American Indian entity since at least 1900
# a predominant part of the group forms a distinct community and has done so throughout history into the present
# holding political influence over its members
# having governing documents including membership criteria
# members having ancestral descent from historic American Indian tribes
# not being members of other existing federally recognized tribes
# not being previously terminated by the U.S. Congress. 
Yuchitown (talk) 16:40, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This is correct for tribes that apply to the BIA, not so for those who go straight to Congress or the courts to win federal acknowledgement. The tribes you list above include several that skipped the BIA altogether and simply won the votes in Congress necessary to get a law passed that put them on equal footing with all the other federally "recognized" tribes. There's a long list of tribes that went that way, before and after the existence of the BIA. I put the term in quotations because the official term in the Office of Federal Acknowledgement (OFA) of the BIA is acknowledgement, not recognition. OFA goes to great length to explain that what the federal government does is acknowledge a tribe's existence, not create one through an action of recognition. All references to recognition in this talk should be replaced with acknowledgement. The nuance might be too fine for the average reader, but it makes a big difference in the direction of the conversation. For among other things, the term recognition misinforms the reader that the US federal government and, for that matter, states can create an American Indian tribe.  Tsideh (talk) 16:16, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Material from article 

message: While this list should be as inclusive as possible, unfortunately, the group Conestoga-Susquehannock Tribe doesn't appear in any published material, and using its own website as a citation could be viewed as promotional, so I removed them from the list and am mentioning them here in case they appear in a secondary, published source in the near future. Yuchitown (talk) 17:47, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conestoga-Susquehannock Tribe 

message: I found these names hidden in a note under "Arkansas"; however, several of these don't appear to be from Arkansas. I'm placing them here until they can be cited and entered under the appropriate state. Yuchitown (talk) 16:55, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Ocali Nation is listed as a "pseudo-tribe" here. It is no. 15 under Florida in this list. They seem to be playing off of Ocale, which was last heard of in the 17th century. - Donald Albury 02:01, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Right on, thank you! I deleted that. And "Turtle Island" is so vague that whatever organization may have used that term will likely be never found, so I deleted that too. Yuchitown (talk) 02:07, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional names 

message: In the intro, I edited it to say, "Most of these organizations are not accepted as being Native American by established Native American tribes," because there are historic tribes in California who signed treaties that were never ratified, and then while most terminated tribes regained their federal recognition (or at least state-recognition with the Chinook Indian Tribe), quite a few in California have yet to do so. So neighboring tribes do acknowledge these people as being Native American. Yuchitown (talk) 19:19, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for covering that! - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 20:18, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exceptions 

message: @User:Yuchitown I just realized there isn't a page or category for self-identifying groups in Canada. Do you think there might be enough content to do that in the future and what page title would you recommend? Thank you. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 12:20, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, such a category would be useful. Since the title of this list was changed to reflect the WP:NOR policy, the :Category:Unrecognized tribes in the United States should probably be changed first to better follow the article title. Perhaps to :Category:Organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes? A Canadian counterpart would be tricky since it would have to encompass organization identifying as Métis and Inuit governments, not just First Nations. Yuchitown (talk) 01:31, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Yuchitown I wanted to create an article about the "Mikinaks" in Quebec. I can't find a Canadian "Federal Register" listing Indigenous tribes. Nor can I find their official website or any non-profit registration info for the "Mikinaks". Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 19:15, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The Government of Canada has this index of First Nations. The Mikinak organization doesn't appear on that list. This website appears to list all nonprofits in Canada. Yuchitown (talk) 19:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you! Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

text: I also noted there's not a page for groups that identify as Indian tribes who aren't recognized in Mexico, Guatemala, Brazil, Bolivia, etc. Like Organización Maya K’iche from Massachusetts. I should think you want to consider organizations like these cuz there's lot's more self-individuals in the US that come from them.  Tsideh (talk) 22:17, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Canada