Talk:Candomblé

message: Hi, people. I'm creating this discussion because I've noticed the page predominantly uses the English-language word "orisha" to refer to Candomblé's deities. Well, this is English Wikipedia so maybe it's expected and the guidelines say to use English preferably. However, it also says to mention native written forms. In Brazilian Portuguese, the correct form is "orixá", so the first sentence of the second paragrah ("Candomblé is monotheistic, involving the veneration of spirits known as orishas" [also not sure why it's in italic if it's English]), maybe should be written as something like "Candomblé is monotheistic, involving the veneration of spirits known as orixás (or orishas)" or "known as orishas (or orixás, in Portuguese)" or "spirtis natively known as orixás". I don't know either if there's an established form used in English-language sources. For this purpose,  may be the person to contact since s/he did a great work here. I'd also like to notice that the article currently also uses "orichas", which probably is not correct unless it's also widely used by scholars. "Orichas" is probably derived from Spanish "orichás"—as a side note, Santería articles mostly use almost-native form "orichas", but also uses "orishas" regularly. I think a standard should be adopted both here and in Santería article. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 16:13, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You make a very good point, Gabriel Yuji. I agree that we probably should stick with the Portuguese spelling orixás in this article, although I have seen different spellings used in the English-language academic publications on Candomblé. Causing a slight bit of confusion is the distinction between the orixás as the spirits of Candomblé and the orishas of Yoruba-derived religious traditions as a whole; both of which are mentioned in the article. For that reason, we may still need a combination of the two spellings, depending on which is being referred to (and perhaps an explanatory note to make clear the difference in spelling?). Midnightblueowl (talk) 13:55, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , I haven't paid attention to the distinction between orixás and orishas. Good point. An explanatory note would be good to explain such a sudden change within the same article. (So this distinction explains the use of both "orichas" and "orishas" in the Santería article that initially confused me—a note there would be useful too.) Gabriel Yuji (talk) 03:04, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orixá, orisha and oricha 

message: hi! Tuning in as a person who is from both Candomblé and Umbanda: Candomblé doesn't have any syncretism with Catholicism or any other religion whatsoever, as described multiple times in the article-- that's Umbanda. The cultivation of caboclos are also from Umbanda. Also, both religions originate way earlier than the 19th-20th c, it's only then when names were "officially coined" but they existed way before that. Macumba also isn't a religion-- it's actually an instrument-- but is also used as a general term to refer to our religions. Again, any mention of syncretism is branching into Umbanda. Please don't get your information online, even Portuguese language sources will have misinformation which has lead to this article being full of it! 208.64.158.243 (talk) 13:59, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia requires reliable sources for statements; do you have some for these claims?  They can be print books or academic journal articles Erp (talk) 02:07, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: By citing many peer-reviewed academic sources written by experts in the field, this article makes clear that Candomblé is undoubtedly syncretic, having absorbed various elements from Roman Catholicism; it probably took shape in Brazil around the 1830s; and some groups incorporate the use of caboclo spirits. Why then would the anonymous editor think differently? I suspect it is down to the form of Candomblé that they have been initiated into. As the article also discusses, since at least the 1980s there has been a movement within the religion which has tried to re-Africanize and, by extension, de-syncretize it. Proponents of this movement have tried to strip out references to Roman Catholic saints, rejected the caboclos as not being African, and emphasised long-term continuity with African traditional religions. If the editor is involved in one of these re-Africanized, de-syncretized lineages, and has had very little experience with other forms of Candomblé (perhaps likely given that they seem to be based in the U.S., not Brazil), then it is not surprising that these revelations may seem surprising to them. It would be akin to a Mormon being exposed to the teachings of the Plymouth Brethren or the Greek Orthodox Church and finding that the interpretation of Christianity that they have embraced is far from being the only one, or even the most common. Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:17, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  correcting some errors