Talk:Ankh

message: This article is atrocious, especially when considering it is about the flagship symbol for the Egypt project.  It's become rambling and disorganized, as people have tacked on their own contributions without working them into the overall flow of the piece.  Let's get to work, folks, and clean this up!  Ganbatte! --Agbdavis 01:35, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reworking

message: What is the earliest known date of the appearance of an ankh?
~~A. Reader~~  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.183.25.169 (talk) 16:59, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Earliest Date?

message: Totally unscientific though it may be, I put in this; i received a vision that the ankh was first a depiction of a tool used in farming, which was important enough to growing the food, that it became a symbol used by the rest of the society.  This would contribute to the interpretations that have been given to it in the last 200 years.  Susan
"A modified version of the ankh symbol (♀) is used in astrology to represent the planet Venus, in alchemy to represent the element copper, and in biology to identify the female sex."
I don't think so. Its a similar symbol, but it is Roman in origin: Venus' handmirror is more associated with being a representation of teh female womb than the ankh ever was. Especially when contrasted with Mars' shield and spear (a rather phallic symbol).--ZZ 13:41, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally I always thought it looked like a person with no legs (or person with legs together), and hence represented a person. Anyone know if any mummy's were buried arms outstretched? Or wasn't it some sort of grain-growing tool?--ZayZayEM 01:14, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we really need the list of so many uses of the ankh in pop culture? Couldn't we just summarize in a few sentences? Peter Isotalo 19:47, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)
I know some christians think it's satanic:
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/signsymbols.htm
"Ankh -Symbolizes fertility rites and the building up of lust within a  person. A spirit of Lust is the power of this union of male /female  representations. Also called the Long Life Seal"
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=cabc&c=whs&id=8515
"It (the Ankh) certainly doesn't belong on a list of supposedly Satanic symbols."
http://www.bibleguidance.co.za/Engarticles/Satanskingdom.htm
"Satanists use it as a sex symbol for their sexual orgies."
Rev Jeremiah Wright was just seen preaching in the friendship baptist church in dallas with a Ankh on the podium. Is this now a symbol being used in some black churches?
http://www.friendshipwest.org/
http://www.friendshipwest.org/images/index2_04.jpg  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sattmaster (talk • contribs) 17:59, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Miscellenia

message: I recall observing that goths are really into it. True? Kent Wang 16:13, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goth pop culture 

message: The following is from my talk page:
:The Ankh is not truely a symbol that came from the cross, nor did the cross come from it.  A specific type of cross is believed to have involved the ankh in it's design.  Therefore I suggest removing :Category:Cross symbols and re-adding :Category:Symbols. KV 19:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Judging from the various articles that appear at :Category:Cross symbols, I would not say that the ankh is out of place there.  Unless that category is a subcategory of :Category:Symbols, I would keep both categories.  Smerdis of Tlön 21:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Category:Cross symbols is a subcategory of :Category:Symbols, and that is why I removed the latter. --BorgQueen 14:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: FWIW, the article on cross would appear to compass just about any symbol that contains an intersection.  Obviously the ankh predates the Christian cross, but Christian crosses are but a subset of crosses.  The ankh is another.  So yes, this is as it should be.  Smerdis of Tlön 14:57, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ankh Categorization 

message: Me, a long-time player of RPG tabletop and computer games, have noticed Ankh's very wide use as a symbol for "Priest magic" and/or "Holy magic" in medieval role playing fantasy games. It is really common, other gamers can acknowledge that. I think it would not be wrong to point out that in the 'Ankh in Pop culture' section, I would do it myself but I think this article is being cared for by a different group of people, so I will leave my comments here and wait for a discussion to arise before doing anything.  Pentalis 22:28, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is quite okay to mention on its usage in RPG, provided you wouldn't go into too excessive details. --BorgQueen 22:35, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I will go and make the edit now before I get lazy and forget about this,  :)  Pentalis 22:50, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ankh in Pop culture ---> Video games 

message: I've removed this material from the article as it appears to be two facts linked together by pure speculation on the part of the editor who wrote it. I'd like to see references for actual Hermetic use of the ankh and for meanings ascribed directly to the ankh in Hermetic documents. 
There are also many weasel words in these two paragraphs; 
*"believed to" (by whom?)
*"may be able" (editorial speculation)
*"it is unclear...or coincidence" (editorial speculation)
*"if the concept..." (whose concept is it, the editor's? or do we have a source?)
So what we have here are two cited facts, neither of which are directly about the ankh, spun together with a bit of spit by the Wikipedia editor who wrote it. No thanks, that's not encyclopedic. —Hanuman Das 10:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awaiting sources - original research? 

message: Lads, the ankh is the symbol representing the completion of the opening the mouth cremony, which is not just ab rejuvenating the dead, but is in fact a deification rite. And on, completing it, the person becomes a "living anhk" or giver of life, radiating life all about; and also rep/ing combining energies into a new sun. Quite impressive these lads understood all that 7000 plus years ago (namer has it all there, 5,000 BC) ! when our lads do not yet understand it.  TieRoan Tyrell Huangdi SOH - the Stone 69.121.221.97 (talk) 69.121.221.97 (talk) 08:05, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Completion

message: Isn't it anachronistic? Did the Egyptians had locks and keys similar to contemporary ones, that they could compare to the Ankh?
:Per the lock (device) article, they were the first ones to have them, 4,000 years ago.--Agbdavis 02:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Its keylike shape also encouraged the belief it could unlock the gates of death."  

message: I am quite interested  to know where the author has received all of his information for the "ankh into cross section" section of this article, as I have not heard about this theory anywhere else (and it is still labeled "citation needed"). This is especially true of its assertion that the Christian cross symbol was not widely accepted until the Egyptians (through their familiarity with the ankh symbol) made it popular. Could someone find a source to back this up? -- Grandpafootsoldier 06:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Section about transition from ankh to cross

message: The ankh does not resemble a penis---nor the pharoah's "penis sheath"---in any way, shape or form. The head of the ankh resembles a vulva, but the rest of it demolishes that resemblance. Someone said in the article that an ankh has no anthrpological resemblance: utter nonsense, because it absolutely resembles a standing person with outretched arms---one could even impute a likeness of a crucifix. Learnedness takes a dive, when such obvious commonsensical resemblances are ignored. --PLK —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.59.70.21 (talk) 19:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I agree you are right about the Ankh looking nothing like a penis, you cannot make the statement that it does look like a man with outstreched arms because your opinion is derived from 20-21st century interpretations of art, specifically one which is familiar with the notion of the stick man drawing. Real "learnedness" would argue that it cannot be a human figure since it bears no resemblance at all to typical egyptian representations of humans. Thanatosimii 22:48, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to be radical and suggest we rely on the work of egyptologists, semanticians, and symbolists.--Agbdavis 22:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

text: That's... kind of what I said... Thanatosimii 23:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm agreeing with you... what is the problem?  Did I miss something?--Agbdavis 00:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I thought you were disagreeing. No problems. Thanatosimii 15:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: So what has been decided? Someone has reverted the changes, removing this explanation but not giving a rationale. Unfortunately I can't seem to find a proper reference on the net (admittedly I haven't looked all that hard yet) - was this what carter really though? If so, I'd like to revert the change. --Nachmore 00:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

text: *"The ankh with its distinctive looped top portion clearly exhibits anthropomorphic qualities, including its other line elements and overall shape, inadvertently or not"
And I have asked 71.59.74.194 to cite a source and avoid inserting editorial statements into the article. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 04:26, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resemblances 

message: A discussion of the symbol's usage in early Christian artifacts is needed.  When does the symbol start occurring in Christian manuscripts?172.159.191.49 (talk) 08:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dating in Christian artifacts

message: diff What does this have to do with the ankh specifically?  Seeing as it does not seem to elaborate on the ankh, but rather a system that uses it as symbolism, I'm not seeing this as a good link for this article.  But let's let some debate run on it.  KV(Talk) 17:51, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ankh Model Chakra System link 

message: Compare the ankh to a Tau cross!Domsta333 (talk) 11:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  comparison 

message: I am curious why none of the so-called experts have collected pictures of the Ankh as a being with attached arms and legs.  Examples of this can be seen at http://moses1350.wetpaint.com/page/Anthropomorphism+of+the+Ankh  ...How shall this information be included in the article?   Iamsmallpeeps (talk) 22:36, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthropomorphism of the Ankh 

message: It "was" an Egyptian heiroglyphic? Isn't it still one of those? I'm not debating this, exactly, so much as wondering if there's like...a Wikipedia-instituted shelf life on when the tense changes? I mean, Latin phrases are still described as "meaning" something, rather than stating that they "meant" something. Especially a symbol like this, which is still relevant to various spiritualities, philosophies, and, uh, Goth kids with limited anthropological understanding. 24.3.14.157 (talk) 07:13, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Tenses

message: This section:
The ankh (symbol ☥) was the Egyptian hieroglyphic character that read "life", a triliteral sign for the consonants ꜥ-n-ḫ. Egyptian gods are often portrayed carrying it by its loop, or bearing one in each hand, arms crossed over their chest. It is also known as the  key of life, the key of the Nile, or as crux ansata, Latin for "cross with a handle".
The ankh appears to be associated with the Egyptian glyph for magical protection, sa. However, what the sign itself represents is disputed. For example, Sir Alan Gardiner thought that it showed a sandal strap with the loop at the top forming the strap, but if so, the symbolism is obscure and so his theory has found little support. However, this interpretation seems to have received some acceptance among modern writers.
Was plagarized word for word from: http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ankh.htm
::I think you've gone a bit overboard here: the first three sentences are not lifted from the article at all, though everything else after that is (starting from "The ankh appears to be associated with the Egyptian glyph for magical protection..."). Am restoring the first three sentences accordingly. Will see if I can find other introductory info to add to it as well. Captmondo (talk) 20:21, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro Plagarized 

message: This is a 3rd opinion, an outside opinion meant to help. It should in no way be taken as authoritative and is simply meant to informally help to resolve a dispute.
The dark mark, as I understand it, is from Harry Potter. That is not to say that it could not be significant in something else, but I am extremely skeptical of someone claiming that it has another significance. This website is self-published as it does not have an author. It is thus unreliable and should be removed as a source.
As for the Asetian Bible the way it is being used here is not self-referentially. If an article on the book said it had this symbol on its cover which it claimed was the dark mark we could look at the cover and determine this to be true of the book. However, this article asserts a broader significance to it. I consider the work self-published and the crucial distinction is the reliability of the organization which published it. This cannot be compared to something written for MIT Press by an MIT professor because MIT Press is widely recognized as a quality press. Similarly, the Vatican is recognized to speak for the Catholic Church. Everyone knows the pope speaks for them. Note that this does not mean that the pope can be cited as representative of what all Catholics think. But he is a recognized source on the iconography of the Virgin Mary, whereas the Asentian Bible is not a recognized source on anything other than itself. To use it as such is to give "the dark mark" a broader cultural significance which it does not seem to have (or there are no reliable citations for at any rate). Note that this in no way reflects on the belief. I think placing significance in the Virgin Mary is just as silly as placing significance in this dark mark. The difference is that it is very clear that the Catholic Church and Catholic culture places an emphasis on the Virgin Mary. Sidestepping the issue of the reliability of the Vatican altogether, I would point out that this is verifiable with legitimate sources other the Vatican. If you think that the dark mark indeed has such cultural significance find a similarly reliable source. Wikipediatoperfection (talk) 02:37, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third Opinion

message: I have been doing some research and it suggests that the Ankh is symbol of the star constellation Bootes, the guardian constellation of Egypt that protected Egypt from the forces of chaos in the North as represented by the Great Bear constellation, Meshkitu.
Any other sources for this ?
Regards Freyr Ottar, 25th July 2009.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.195.71.77 (talk) 14:50, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ankh - representation of Bootes 

message: Ankh certainly serves to represent the verb "to live", and other cognates, but why is it claimed to stand for "eternal life" specifically? The verb "ankh" is used far more generally than that. 87.112.13.151 (talk) 19:21, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ankh - Eternal Life? 

message: This was a symbol in the movie Logan's Run
--Lindy (talk) 00:35, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ankh in Logan's Run 

message: I believe the alleged connection between the Coptic cross and the Ankh is speculative and tenuous, to say the least, see my comment on Talk:Coptic cross#Non-ankh. The upper part of the Ankh is something like a heartformed loop, where the Coptic cross has a circle. I therefore also believe that the article Coptic ankh is bogus. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 08:30, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Coptic ankh may be bogus, but I think I have seen passing mentions of the link between the Coptic cross and the ankh in Egyptological works. Unfortunately I can't remember where they were, and I've collected such a pile of sources that they'll be hard to find even if I have them. I think it's unwise, though, to be too skeptical of ancient Egyptian traditions persisting into Coptic Christianity; in my reading I've realized that those traditions persisted (and even persist) to an amazing degree. A. Parrot (talk) 18:12, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. I think it's astounding to read the entire Ankh article and see just a single sentence covering linkage between iconography of the Christian cross and the Ankh. Material is conspicuous by its absence, and appears to have been excised since earlier versions. And I think frankly it's a bit silly to try to argue that the Coptic cross is not influenced by the Ankh. Unless you seriously think that early Copts said "this new symbol representing life-force that looks just like that old symbol plastered all over the walls of nearly every building in the country, and also represents life-force, is completely unrelated to it". Fig (talk) 20:14, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Coptic cross not an Ankh (?)

message: I have played the Ultima games extensively on Apple ][ (All versions), DOS (AV.), Sega Master System (AV.), Nintendo NES (AV.), Super NES (AV.), Online versions, Gameboy Color (AV.), Gamboy (AV.), Mac, Commodore 64. This more than covers Akalabeth through Ascension, the underworld series, and all other side stories. While I have not played every version of every game, I think I have played all the representative versions. In all of these, I cannot recall any NPCs worshiping an Ankh. It is a symbol associated with religion, but not itself worshiped.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.33.117 (talk) 15:33, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worshiped in Ultima? don't think so 

message: This passage has been in the article for a long time, and it looks suspicious, so when somebody tried to tag it as needing a source, I moved it here.
The ankh was almost never drawn in silver; as a sun-symbol, the Egyptians almost always crafted important examples of it (for tombs or other purposes) from the metal they most associated with the sun, gold. A similar metal such as copper, burnished to a high sheen, was also sometimes used.
If a source is found to support it, this text, or something to this effect, can go back in. A. Parrot (talk) 23:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ankh materials 

message: "The Egyptian Ankh" was a tool used by traders for sales. With a function similar to the dividers we us at the checkout of  supermarkets today. 
This is how it works;
1) The trader would place a "Ankh" on the table between them and the customer they wanted to serve with the loop facing them, to show them that they are ready to trade. 
2) The customer would give the trader their order. 
3) The customer and trader would then negotiate and agree on price, at which time the customer would place their coins/pieces on the table, inside the loop of the Ankh. 
4) The trader would then use their side of the Ankh as a divider. Placing the customers order on the left-hand side, and any coins/pieces of change on the right-hand side. 
5) Once both sides were laid out on the table the trader and customer needed to inspect the trade and agree that it was fair and correct. Neither side was allowed to touch anything on the other side of the table, until they were in agreement.
6) Once the trader and customer had agreed their trade was correct, the customer would take the coins/pieces from within the loop and hand them to the trader. 
7) Then, and only then, was the customer allowed to reach across the Ankh to the traders side of the table to take their goods and change.
8) The trader would then pick up the Ankh and place it on the table again in front of another customer, to show they are ready to serve them.
BornOfSin (talk) 00:58, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Andy W. (talk) 01:04, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2016 

message: When understanding such truly ancient symbols, I feel it's essential we consider the view of those who invented and reproduced them for generations little changed, which, up to this point, I have seen less then I would like to (however, I appreciate the thoughts by Damon Simms concerning reproduction above, see my last paragraph). I hope some consideration of the following may be included in the main article.
First, let us understand that ancient peoples made their oldest symbols in direct literal representation of the most basic events or concepts from the environment around them whenever possible. For 1000's of years the peoples we call the Egyptians lived in a fairly flat, open region with clear skies and brilliant solar exposure. Egypt was and is a hot land by day and cool or cold at night. The sun quickly arose from the east, most often from a dark and barren desert, and gave meaning to all things. It was the single most important event of their world, repeated daily against a cloudless sky without fail as confirmation of the continuity of existence. Indeed it was (and still is) why the world IS at all. This is why the Egyptians were foremost a morning sun worshiping people (as many others were and some still are). Thus, classical Egyptians always considered the rising sun as a daily birth of life to the world. They made the Ankh as the depiction of that life. I explain...
Imagine ancient daybreak: the black and grey dispelled by the dazzling disc, emerging, rising above certain sand vistas of the Sahara or a rippling water course such as the Nile. Spreading it's glory to all the event becomes majestic, dramatic and even magical and worthy of making a symbol to carry about to sustain the believer, just a the Cross is used by Christians, the Crescent by Muslims and the Lotus by Buddhists, etc. Anyone of us looking out over an open, cloudless horizon at sunrise may see this exact view, drinking in deeply that the day has begun. At the other end of a day, this is repeated in reverse. Seen as the often glorious withdrawal of this power and imposing rest upon the world. These events have occurred since the clouds cleared over the virgin Earth, some 1,642,500,000,000 days past without fail, when no human eyes existed to watch it.
As such a bright vision, symbolically replicating it would be immensely important. Therefore, the round top half of the Ankh represents a brilliant rising sun, Ra, just fully formed and touching at the sharp horizon, which is depicted as the horizontal arms. The reflected light of this sun on ground or water can be seen as the long lower vertical arm, stretching to every viewer personally (a somewhat religious event of it's own). That the horizontal and vertical lines should widen as they move away from the solar disk is a visually obvious 3-dimensional effect to anyone observing a sunrise. To a sun worshiper, it is the dispensing of the power to all and, most specifically, the owner and observer. Thus Ankh's are most often made or depicted in this manner.
The Ankh would always be imagined as a bright object. The Ankh says that this light, warmth and power is for YOU to use for your life and works. Such does not come from darkness. Quality carved stone reliefs usually show the Ankh so as to catch light in some way. If pigmented, in a lighter or gold color. As noted, it's often depicted in the hands of or worn by most Egyptian gods as a proof of power and energy ready to be dispensed. Here, the Ankh is classically depicted as a light object, gold if it could be had. It is quite possible that depicting an Ankh specifically colored dark in the Egyptian classic world would be considered a sort of blasphemy or curse.
An Ankh was easy to recognize by all and comparatively easy to make physically in proto-smithies. They would've been at pains to search for the materials to make them, spurring exploration and experimentation in mining, smelting, forging and casting. This is all the more appropriate as Gold was Egypt's first metal and seemed to be like a bit of Ra in hand where you can feel it's weight and substance as no other metal has. If you melted, purified  and poured it in a hollow it becomes a round golden sun that you could hold and even see yourself in. It was the first metal humans could form and polish, due to it's softness, as reflective as a mirror. It is fairly natural that the Ankh became among Man's first useful decorative metallurgy.
The tie-in to Isis mentioned by Damon Simms above is also understandable and I find a very interesting consideration, though I feel it would be a double meaning. It is true that female attributes may be similar in shape to this rising sun vision. The connection of the life giving sun and life giving women is easy to draw. (Why it isn't more universal is the more curious question.) That Ankh, the life and power symbol, and Isis, the female life deity, should become woven most closely under the Egyptian sun may've been inevitable. Jopower (talk) 13:40, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Missing Discussion: Considering the Ankh, perhaps the oldest symbol for Life in the World, from the point of view of the ancients who made and used it 

message: the ankh was a very inportent thing in the Egyptian times. The sun god Ra was often pictured holding an ankh. the ankh was a symbol of life and a key to the underworld                          by <>PumpiChick<>  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.79.17 (talk) 20:48, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  ANKH 

message: Ahem. There is a blue version at :File:Ankh_(SVG)_blu.svg. Thanks. -Inowen (nlfte) 03:27, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Determined to have a more colorful lead image, eh? Can't hurt. I've replaced the black version with the blue. A. Parrot (talk) 00:19, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blue 

message: Who wants evidence that ankh is a symbol of claviceps paspali. Who dares to hide the truth? Mitja Fistrić (talk) 13:03, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is based on reliable, scholarly sources (see the page Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources for details), and it must represent claims in proportion to their presence in the scholarly community (see Wikipedia:Due weight). In researching the Egyptological literature about the ankh, I have never come across the hypothesis that it represents a claviceps fungus, so unless you can find a significant number of scholars who support this hypothesis, the article should not include it. A. Parrot (talk) 23:54, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ankh 

message: ... just lower part slightly tapered.
Meaning is fairly similar too...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.149.201 (talk) 08:30, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar symbol used to depict Ishtar / Inanna 

message: A recent Smithsonian article on the antiviral properties of copper says that "Egyptians designated the ankh symbol, representing eternal life, to denote copper in hieroglyphs." I'm not sure this is true. From what I can glean from Egyptological dictionaries (Raymond Faulkner's Concise Dictionary of Middle Egyptian and the Wörterbuch der ägyptischen Sprache), the hieroglyphic spelling of the word for copper (ḥmt) did not incorporate an ankh sign. Alternate terms for copper may have existed, and the organization of such dictionaries doesn't make such variants easy to track down, but there's reason to be skeptical.
Moreover, the idea that the ankh is connected with copper goes back a long way, and not, as far as I can discern, through reliable Egyptological sources. See this article about copper from 1923, which is one of the first things to turn up when searching "ankh copper" in Google Books, or this book from 1947. These are not Egyptological sources, and the 1923 article isn't even scholarly.
The link here seems to be the ankh's similarity to the Venus symbol, which was used as the alchemical symbol for copper as well as the astrological symbol for Venus. The most elaborate form of this claim that I've seen was in a past version of this article, which said "…the letter ku, from the Cypriot syllabary, appeared within the circle ankh, representing Ku(prion) (Cypriots). To this day, the ankh is also used to represent the planet Venus (the namesake of which, the goddess Venus or Aphrodite, was chiefly worshipped on the island) and the metal copper (the heavy mining of which gave Cyprus its name)." Supposedly this passage was supported by a book from 1878 (!) about Cyprus, but I can't tell from the limited preview whether the book actually supported the claim. In any case, the assertion that the Venus symbol is descended from the ankh is false: this study of the origins of astronomical symbols says that in the Middle Ages the Venus symbol was a circle with a descending line but no crossbar, and that the modern, ankh-like shape of the sign only became standard in the 16th century as an effort to Christianize the signs. After the ankh had become generally known through the work of early Egyptologists, and sometime before 1923, the idea arose that the Venus sign originated with the ankh. Faulty ideas about history that arose in the 19th and early 20th centuries tend to circulate widely down to the present, thanks partly to the public-domain status of everything published before the 1920s. I think it possible that the Smithsonian article, which is not focused on ancient Egypt and need not have drawn on specialized sources, is repeating a version of this same claim.
Until there's an Egyptological source to support the idea that the Egyptians used the ankh to represent copper, I think we should keep this claim out of the article. A. Parrot (talk) 21:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copper 

message: Ankhs Meaning in ancient Egypt is simple as obvious for non gay men, what Monotheists, praising in sexual ecstasy an God, born by pharaonic and torah patronal inbreed, not includes, like it seems.
Guess what, Hathor is one of most celebrated Divinities in Old Egypt, so her is the Symbol, and her female Shape of Births Channel, nothing more nothing less, no Law, nor Judging Bounds, just giving life. it enough divine power to rule, except you a gay lord like Mose.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:e1:e73b:8140:1742:c55d:c781:4e71 (talk) 01:48, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The Ankh was carried by many deities including Ptah.  Alone, it has no gender symbolism in Egyptian culture.  Liberty5651 (talk) 11:44, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

text: Noting that most of this editor's comments were reverted for using WP as a blog and the IP range blocked since.  Thanks, —PaleoNeonate – 11:55, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misogyne Monotheistic Phallus fixed Meaning Setting  

message: Should we add a part in this page about how the ankh is connected to the soul and protect people from losing their babies. I remember Jesus being pregnant and therefore adds a l lot of info as to how he became this way. some people believe he either stole it or was pregnant from his mothers blood. I know schizophrenic people hold a possibility of being pregnant. IF yousell your soul you sell your life. Your babies. 2603:8080:C140:1B92:DDBB:F3A6:A605:4E9E (talk) 15:31, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ankh holds babies. 

message: Let's call it raindrop shaped.
Someone edited the article content to describe the Ankh as shape as having a with a "raindrop-shaped loop in place of a vertical upper bar".  "Raindrop" was reverted "teardrop" and the reversion was explained by: "Teardrop is the usual way of describing this shape" .  I changed it to "raindrop" again and fully expect it to be reverted. So, i t should be discussed:
The description really is very arbitrary here, no? It's an adjective for the shape. One's nearly as good is the other.  I tend to like "raindrop" (not that I'd thought about it before). It seems more natural (though it's not). It's certainly less sad.  I guess - best case - the description is somehow relevant to the Ankh's symbolism. Is rain or sorrow more relevant to what the Ankh symbolizes?
Other opinions are requested. ProofCreature (talk) 11:20, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: , You think raindrops and teardrops don't share the same shape?  ProofCreature (talk) 13:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: , no, they're different. Teardrops have that distinctive point and while raindrops are fully rounded. Anyway, I don't really see a reason to change it to raindrop since it's the typical way to describe the shape. Rain and tears are both unrelated to the Ankh, with teardrop just being a normal way to describe a shape of that nature. Star11308 (talk) 13:35, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Specifically, "teardrop" has two dictionary meanings: one meaning an actual tear and one meaning "something shaped like a dropping tear". The word "raindrop" doesn't have the same additional meaning. A. Parrot (talk) 14:41, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If one phrases it as "teardrop-shaped" or "raindrop-shaped" that doesn't seem to be a problem. ProofCreature (talk) 15:34, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

text: Seems drop-shape would be more appropriate than raindrop-shape.  That sounds strange. ProofCreature (talk) 23:18, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shape Description Teardrop or Raindrop