Talk:Radio Caroline

message: What exactly is radio caroline; a radio station? One? Daniel Christensen (talk) 05:08, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you actually read the article ? 86.112.254.192 (talk) 14:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Summary

message: a video taken aboard the ship at the time by Nigel Harris is widely available
I would like to see this video. I can't find it. Can we have a link to it? The Wednesday Island 14:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video 

message: However, the following day James Murphy, an investigator for the Office of Official Solicitor acting on behalf of the Department of Trade and Industry, led colleagues and counterparts from the Netherlands Radio Regulatory Authority to carry out an armed raid on the Ross Revenge.
Is this an exaggeration of the role of Mr Murphy in the raid ? The operation was in the main carried out by the Dutch RCD (Radio Controle Dienst) backed up by the Dutch Navy/Police and with some assistance from the British authorities. Murphy was working for the British authorities and was therfore hardly "leading" the raiding party. His main role seems to have consisted to have attempting to question the "English" crewmembers on board the Ross Revenge having bluffed/exaggerated his legal powers/authority to do so. The person in charge of the RCD operation appears to have been a guy called Martin Roumen #. 86.112.254.192 (talk) 15:19, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The paragraph was misleading.  In effect it said a British official led a group of Dutch PTT people, backed by the Dutch Navy, which resulted in the British staff walking free, and the Dutch staff being arrested.   I think you will find Murphy was an observer, and his attempts to get the British staff to incriminate themselves was decidely useless. Changing one word "led" to "joined", and clarifying by adding the word UK twice made the context correct --Keith 16:01, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Role of James Murphy

message: The interference on short wave, however, did exist; and several times Caroline was warned about this by officials and offshore-radio fans.[citation needed]
I know this doesnt amount to a verifiable citation but for what its worth I can recall the issue being discussed (several months prior to the raid) on another Shortwave pirate station (WLR). Given the nature of the pirate radio community at the time It is highly likely that word would have made its way back to at least some of the people involved in Caroline. While quite a few bad decisions were made at various stages throughout the stations history for a ship based station to broadcast on a marine frequency must rank as one of the most difficult to comprehend. And while it is likely that the severity of this interference was probably exaggerated by the authorities (Nothing was done about it for over a year and even the RCD statements issued in the aftermath of the raid indicated it was only a secondary concern although the British authorities made more of an issue of it) It is hard to fathom why the station (or those responsible for the choice of frequency) played into the hands of those who wanted rid of it. 86.112.51.161 (talk) 22:29, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Alleged Shortwave Interference

message: Why does the editor and author refuse to admit that the BBC music policies had as much to do with the creation of Radio Caroline as did the record company restrictions on Radio Luxembourg. I have tried to edit this into the first two lines but was censored. So much for Wikipedia accuracy!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ercjncpr (talk • contribs) 18:01, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This "nanny" does not like being reffered to as such, nor do I wish to have the article my own way.  There are plenty of edits to disprove this innuendo.  What I do take exception to, is the unconstructive nature of his edits.  If he, Brian or bschott, cares to research the article and provide constructive input, then I wouldn't have any problem! --Keith 06:42, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea about the factual accuracy or otherwise of the "Chronology" section, if that is the part of the article being discussed.  But there are clearly issues in that section - a general lack of verifiable references, unencyclopedic wording, and formating issues such as the use of very short paragraphs and unnecessary bolding of words.  The section seems anomalous anyway - parts of it would be better in the Introduction, and other parts in the main text, perhaps with an additional timeline.  If more references were provided for that section, it would be easier to undertake proper copy-editing of the section, to everyone's satisfaction.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Perhaps the problem relates to WP:CITE: "If a source supports a significant amount of the material in an article, it may sometimes be acceptable to simply add the citation at the end. It serves as a general reference, not linked to any particular part of the article. This is more likely to be appropriate for relatively undeveloped articles or those covering a very simple or narrow topic. Any material challenged or likely to be challenged requires an inline citation, as does contentious material about a living person" (my emphasis).  Inline citations are clearer and more easily verifiable.  In any case, my comment on the "Chronology" section remains - is it intended as a summary of later sections, in which case it should be placed in the introduction, or is it a free-standing section, in which case it should be better referenced?  From an outsider's perspective, I must question the over-use of www.radiocaroline.co.uk - partly because it is clearly a commercial link, there may be conflict of interest issues, and more generally because it is always unwise to rely largely on a single source.  If some reliance is placed on that source, and if there are facts on which more than one interpretation can be placed, other (perhaps more independent} sources should be used as well.  I stress I'm not taking one side or another here - it's an interesting article, and it needs to be properly referenced and balanced.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:34, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Admittedly the use of a singular ref point may be of dubious value.  However, much of what is contained in this article and the single source can be verified from other "printed material" references already used, and possibly a number of online sources which are now available. (Though it can be said that some of these are very personal POV's).  As said previously, if someone wishes to make a valid contribution then I havent a problem.  I do not have the time nor inclination to start going over the material I do have, (which are already listed in the references), to find the exact point and then place such as an "inline citation". (Its bad enough expending time and effort removing dubious material.)  Others are welcome to, but not just to punctuate the article with "citation needed" or "weasel words" - that is not a reasonable contribution! --Keith 07:46, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand the problem - but it seems to me that it's quite appropriate for other editors to ask for those sources to be spelled out in the text, with page references, per WP:CITE.  If a point of accuracy is questioned, adding a tag is the right way forward (indeed, a "reasonable contribution") - and it seems to me that it is then up to the person who has access to the published sources to provide the detailed reference, including page numbers and so forth, or to provide other verifiable references.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:05, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The entire first section needs a revamp... 

message: I have removed a random   POV-check-section  posting from article on the grounds it has been placed by a single edit IP address.  The location it was placed did state "felt by many", so didnt indicate it was a consensula opinion.  Unconstructive IP edits of this sort are seen as vandalisim and as such will be removed.  Constructive edits are welcomed. --Keith 10:48, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of random  ''' ''POV-check-section'' ''' template by unsourced IP Edit 

message: A line   Radio Caroline's popularity was enhanced by the recent film "The Boat that Rocked" (other titles were used in some countries) which was loosely based on its time as a pirate radio ship.  has been removed. 
:It is definitely a POV, as the film itself is, pardon the pun, thought to have sunk without further trace.  What was initially a good idea, turned out to be an over hyped comedic parody of a number of incidents in the sixties.  The Caroline organisation gladly provided technical support for filming and initial promotion of the film, but subsequently it has been quietly forgotten.   A tale is that although only loosely based on the offshore pirate scene of the sixties, it was heavily re-edited for the US market --Keith 13:39, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Despite the fact that I keep screaming at her "It wasn't like that!! ... and that Incredible String Band album is really good!!!", my daughter thinks the film is "cool".  Aarrgh!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  The film while not a huge box office success hasnt exactly "sunk without further trace" either. DVD copies are widely available in Supermarkets and video shops in the UK (2010) 86.112.94.153 (talk) 21:41, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  The "sunk without trace" was a "topical" pun.  Its appearance on DVD means nothing - it is common practice to have sold the DVD rights in a particular region, before the film is even completed production, flop or blockbuster.  No doubt it will appear on a TV channel, with multitudinous repeats,  in due course, as again it was probably pre-sold --Keith 21:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of film connection comment 

message: The Crouch EDM efort is the subject of a story in today's NY Times. I didn't immediately see any new info. Perhaps a more expert editor would like to check? Wwwhatsup (talk) 20:02, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  NY Times story 

message: Apparently in January 2011  an article appeared, no source given except Toronto, so presumed in some Canadian publication.
This laid claim that Radio Caroline does not continue as a station BUT acknowledges the existence of an operation in the UK.
A web site ([www.radiocaroline.org]} has appeared purporting to be a group behind a return to the air by the original Caroline.   This group has no connection with the people who run the current Caroline operation - which has connections going back to the originator, Ronan O'Rahilly, numerous staff members, and continuity.
Until the identity and intentions of the this "Canadian Pretender" are established, the article as it stands is accepted by most people as being correct. --Keith 22:16, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: For much of radio Caroline's history there were multiple factions both within and outside the organisation (a term which is something of a misnomer) which claimed that the station had at some point (none of them really agree on exactly when) had somehow drifted from its true purpose (none of them fully agree on exactly what) Most of these had their roots in disagreements over music policy, personality clashes and (after 1990) the decision (again a misnomer as it was something forced upon them by circumstance) to pursue a course as a landbased (or river-based) licenced broadcaster. A lot of folk insist anything other than an unlicensed ship offshore broadcaster can never the "true" radio Caroline even though all available evidence suggests such a thing would never be a legal, economic or practical feasibility in the 21st century. While some of them raise interesting questions about the manner in which the organisation (that misnomer again) was managed -particularly in its latter days at sea these are questions which have with the passage of time become pretty moot. 2A00:23C7:70C:EF00:F96A:4019:D799:41A (talk) 19:53, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canadian Pretender organsiation 

message: The website has an address in Vancouver which upon further checking reveals it is located in a hotel owned by the main investor in the 80s Radio Caroline - Nelson Skalbania. For research/reference purposes a link to the RadioCaroline.org would be useful. It seems odd to have a link to an unidentified "hoax" website Caroline1395.com and yet ignore the website of a main shareholder of the last offshore Caroline.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.18.219 (talk) 11:08, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand Nelson Skalbania has not had any legal or financial connection to the Caroline organisation for over 25 years.  He does not have a stake in the operation currently (that AMFM.org article was written 26 years ago.)  His Wikipedia profile does not show any relevant connections either (i.e. no broadcast, or European connections)
Radio Caroline is an English radio station, based in England, with a  (offshore) history  going back to 1964. It is now a LEGAL operation.
The Canadian website, whilst not admitting it, envisages an illegal operation.  Please read, and explain how else it would operate in a regulated world.  Also please can you indicate how the connection to Skalbania is made to the website, as no names are mentioned.
--Keith 14:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  RadioCaroline.org 

message: The opening sentence reads: Radio Caroline is an English radio station founded in 1964 by Ronan O'Rahilly to circumvent the record companies' control of popular music broadcasting in the United Kingdom" - I don't have a copy of the source ref but, surely, it wasn't the record companies who controlled broadcasting it was the BBC? Programming choices aside, the BBC itself suffered from the Musicians Union mandated 'needle-time' constraints. The labels did control Radio Luxembourg, but that wasn't technically a UK broadcaster. Wwwhatsup (talk) 06:48, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raison d'etre 

message: Hi all, I've been cleaning up this article and I'm hoping to get it to Good article standard eventually. I may require help in certain areas, especially post-1984 Caroline/Monique etc., as my main sources (Henry/von Joel, 1984 and Noakes, 1984) don't extend to this period. Otherwise I'll plug on with it. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 20:50, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I'll have a look there, although I'd rather avoid 'official' and amateur material. Sorting wheat from chaff is easy - telling fact from un-fact isn't when sources are limited. :-) Thanks again, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 04:00, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean-up, copy-edit etc.

message: This section is bugging me as there is no reference material for it.   
Firstly, I have shifted it from its previous location as it had nothing to do with the station  - albeit it happened at the timepoint it appeared at.   I moved it to the International section at the end.
I have searched hi/lo online for reference material on this item, and so far found nothing.  There is also nothing in the books I have (but thats not extensive!!).
Finally I decided to look where it appeared first in these edits - 2003-10-15T04:00:26.  The edit there does not mention a fraud case, or Wolfman Jack, but does mention MV Imagine and some legal problems
Since there was no connection with the station - just using the idea to defraud, and the possibility that the media company and Wolfman Jack were not actually involved, but had their names used as they were involved with the station, I feel it might be wise to remove it totally until some source material can be validated. --Keith 21:15, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, please remove it; I couldn't find any online material either, except that the Stuart Henry / Mike von Joel book says the Ross Revenge had been re-named 'Imagine' but doesn't mention a fraud. If references are later found it can always be added back. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:19, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  MV Imagine Section 

message: There is a single reference () for this.  The station's size can be guessed by its website content (), although other links predominately promote "Caroline" as part of the name.  The station makes no reference on air to "Caroline". However, an overnight automated service inserts "Caroline" idents every x minutes. --Keith 08:46, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radio Caroline New Zealand 

message: Is this worth a brief mention anywhere? Paul MacDermott (talk) 13:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, but it is certainly very interesting! Thank you for linking to it, I wouldn't have found it otherwise. 2.31.164.13 (talk) 18:25, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fake pirate DJ 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Radio Caroline. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add  after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.unlockdemocracy.org.uk/charter88archive/pubs/other/mcgann.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 05:31, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Who are "Planet Sales Ltd" and how has this single-director/single-shareholder company come to own "Radio Caroline"? When and why did O'Rahilly's involvement end? (The Ross Revenge section suggests he was still involved - or possibly responsible for - the Ross Revenge era).
:I'm still left with the same impression (possibly false) that I posted about many years ago, that the current onshore operation has nothing to do with the offshore station. It would be really nice if the narrative of the period following the grounding of the Ross through to becoming a legal station came about, with references. Surely this is documented now - e.g. in a book - given that the illegal operations are ancient history? Surely if O'Rahilly were still involved, he'd be a director as the operation is now legal? Questions, questions, and not enough of them are answered in this article :(  --kingboyk (talk) 19:51, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting now that 'Planet Sales Ltd' is now dissolved as at 13 October 2020 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11981692 46.208.99.238 (talk) 14:17, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that Ronan spent the last few years of his life in an Irish nursing home reportedly suffering from vascular dementia any notion that he may have been involved in a London based company founded in 2019 seem extremely fanciful ? 2A00:23C7:70C:EF00:705D:54A2:627F:BD4 (talk) 20:40, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Planet Sales Ltd 

message: I spent some time alerting fellow editors to the problem with this page by writing a new introduction and removing some of the most obvious and glaring and unsupported rubbish. Then someone came along and simply reverted the new text to the old text.
This page is a classic example of why academia has warned students not to cite Wikipedia!
It is not that there are errors on this page, the entire page is an error. I am not exaggerating. To begin with, this page is influenced by a body of people who wish to create the impression that Radio Caroline began in 1964 on a ship, and over the following years it disappeared and reappeared on a variety of ships, satellites and now it is a UK licensed station affiliated to a charity. That synopsis is entirely false.
Radio Caroline came on the air in 1964 and it ended when its financial backers pulled out prior to the 1967 Marine Offences Act becoming law. Then amateurs took over and tried to continue but they ran out of money a few months later in March 1968 and that was it. No more Radio Caroline.
The backers who began it are not the ones cited, and even the financial details are a joke because none of that section is true at all.
The other entities that have used the eponymous name of Radio Caroline are all unrelated to the original.
However, I do not intend to waste my time by adding information only to have it removed in a blanket revision. The person who performed this switch asked no questions, and is asking no questions now, but seems to be quite content to allow the rubbish that is presently on this page to remain there, and thus confirm to everyone in academia that Wikipedia is a joke edited by people who either want to sell a fake story, or by people who love being able to write story-tales as a joke and then watch them being published by Wikipedia as fact.
I will leave it to the person who reverted the text, to make the first move now by asking his/her own questions regarding the present text and trying verify what is on the page. But it cannot be verified because it is untrue.
I await this for other person to spend some of their time investigating the present text on this page before I spend any more of my time on it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by DEC3063 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , what are the sources that support your claims? Schazjmd (talk) 22:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

text: You have made some bold claims about the veracity of the facts in this article. When challenged for sources, you huff and argue that we should do our own fact-checking. That's not really how things work here at Wikipedia. If you think the presented (and cited) facts are wrong, please present your evidence. Otherwise, the cited article as it stood before your intervention will be the preferred version. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:18, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment - I regularly listened to Radio Caroline in the 1970s. Therefore the claim that Radio Caroline ceased in 1968 is demonstrably false. Mjroots (talk) 13:54, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: All the photos of Ronan O'Rahilly in the 70s and 80s involved with Caroline ships and personnel must be fake too... if the demander-of-deletion is to be believed. 2.31.164.13 (talk)  — Preceding undated comment added 18:32, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The present page needs to be deleted. 

message: This article lacks any foundation in fact and as originally written it cannot be supported by genuine academic sources. The first reference comes from a US newspaper long after the station came on the air and is a self-promotion for George Drummond who had no connection to Jocelyn Stevens and the creation of Radio Caroline in 1964. In fact, after the closure of Radio Caroline for good in 1968, George Drummond engaged in a criminal conspiracy involving theft for which he was arrested in Germany and brought back to the United Kingdom for trial and imprisonment. Drummond was eventually released and after inheriting some money from his mother he went to Barbados where he totally changed his name from George Drummond). The part played by Ronan O'Rahilly was on behalf of Jocelyn Stevens and O'Rahilly's father who was short of money and allowed the masts to be fitted on to the original two Caroline ships. The 'Jimmy' story comes from a novel and the Caroline name had absolutely nothing to do with the Kennedy family. That myth began in March 1965. The name came from fashion editor Beatrix Miller. The article is such a self-promoting item on behalf of self-publisher Paul Rusling who is selling books to make money, and Malcolm Smith who is using this story to give credibility to his own recently formed business and a charity for which he hopes to solicit Lottery money. Therefore the only solution is to delete this article and demand proof of connectivity in any new article that is submitted under this name. As it is, it supports the notion that Wikipedia cannot be relied upon for any academic purpose as a citation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by DEC3063 (talk • contribs) 12:24, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: And your reliable sources for these comments and allegations are....    ??   Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:59, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

text: PS:  Of course, you are absolutely correct to say that "Wikipedia cannot be relied upon for any academic purpose as a citation".  That has always been true, per WP:CW.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:02, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You are asking for a negative to be proved as a positive or fiction to proved as fact. Either you have no interest in the truth of this matter because you have a vested interest in the commercial side of this article, or you enjoy causing trouble. Clearly you want the article to be left alone and I will. I have now proved once again that this subject (article) is toxic because too many people have an interest in preserving this myth, and that only goes to once again destroy any credibility that Wikipedia might be seeking as an institution. This article adds to its image as an unreliable source. If you have a change of mind I suggest you begin with the origins of the name and then move on to the origins of the 'Jimmy' myth. You should be able to find both without too much effort.DEC3063 (talk) 13:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want the article changed, you need to provide reliable, published sources - rather than expecting other editors to assume that what you say is true, without providing any evidence.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:34, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: For info, I have partially blocked  from editing the article indefinitely. Mjroots (talk) 13:51, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You have essentially proved my point on two counts - (1) You accept that what is cited is true, and (b) you have no intention of bothering to discover whether it is true. You also avoided responding to my lengthy response above and so it is pointless repeating myself here. All of this suggests (not proves, but suggests) that you have a personal interest in this topic along with two individuals who are masterminding this deceit. The first is vanity publisher Paul Rusling who has a Wikipedia page and is promoting a book called 'The Radio Caroline Bible' which is in part the work of copyright theft and plagerism, and the other person is Malcolm Smith who hides behind the name of Peter Moore and who has filed false papers with Companies House in order to promote the myth that his new and tiny operation is linked to the original Radio Caroline of 1964. Unfortunately both these individuals know that is not worth the money to go after them in court because they do not have any worthwhile assets. However, this article as original written which should be deleted immediately is in furtherance of these financial ambitions of these two individuals. If you are genuinely neutral then delete the article and demand strict and credible sourcing proof for any new article. But I am not going to war with you because so far you have not demonstrated the open mind of a scholar who is seeking the truth of the matter, but hinting that you might have something to gain by this hoax remaining on Wikipedia. Your move next because I won't be on Wikipedia to respond. DEC3063 (talk) 14:15, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: What I have done is to prevent disruptive edit warring to the article. We are not interested in "the truth". What we are interested in is what can be verified by reliable sources.  if you leave Wikipedia that is your decision. I'm pretty sure we'll manage just fine without you. Mjroots (talk) 14:21, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: (e/c)   I'd never heard of Paul Rusling - for what it's worth, I think his article should be deleted.  You need to read WP:TRUTH.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Raised at WP:AN, proposed for a speedy under G11. Mjroots (talk) 15:42, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  PLEASE DELETE THIS ENTIRE ARTICLE 

message: The lede previously had a citation to this archived 1966 Daytona Beach newspaper article, which refers to George Drummond as "one of the four directors of Radio Caroline".   Drummond's name doesn't appear anywhere else in our article so, whatever his involvement may or not have been, it doesn't seem appropriate to either name him, or use the citation, in the opening sentence.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:41, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  George Drummond 

message: Radio Caroline North. Read about this on https://mediumwave.info/2023/01/27/united-kingdom-241/ 82.170.17.19 (talk) 15:40, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radio Caroline North