Talk:Basic taste

message: I'm not trying to be facetious, but what about celery?  That's a taste that seems completely unique to me.  And so I guess one couldn't argue that it's a factor in other tastes, but now I'm curious as to what it is about celery that makes it taste the way it does.
Along the same lines, it would be nice if this article included something about wasabi/horseradish in the location about false heat.  It's quite a different sensation from capsaicin. 68.123.71.25 18:39, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  General comments 

message: Does anyone find it funny that all of the basic tastes listed in the box at the bottom of the page redirect to here? And that there's only one article in the category Basic tastes? — Shoecream 07:52, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
I concur. I've removed the template from this page and listed both the template and the category for deletion. —Caesura 20:36, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Say1988: That's not true, basicity has nothing whatsoever to do with bitterness. Sweet, bitter, and umami taste receptors can detect a wide range of chemically diverse compounds, simply because there are many different receptors for the same taste. Sweet can also detect many l-amino acids, even lead acetate, umami detects certain nucleotides in addition to glutamate, and bitter detects a broad range of compounds like certain d-amino acids, certain alkaloids like quinine and caffeine, as well as many non-alkaloid natural products. Cacycle 09:54, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basic taste box 

message: So the whole reason I am here in the first place and have commented on this page at all stems from a BBC television piece whicvh was shown on the science channel about why humans have evolved to like and dislike certain things, in the first 20 minute sor so they begin to talk about tastes and smells, and they touch on the 4 basic sences (I was surprised they didn't mention Umami actually) debunk the myth about the taste-map, mention under-tasters and super-tasters, and what have you.
But what struck me as odd, was most of my life growing up, my favorite flavor sensation has been Sour, however they give a relatively detailed explinatio of the 'four' basic flavors except for sour, they explain sweet = carbs = energy, that salty = our need for salt to retain water and w/e, and that bitter = help us not eat/drink poisons (They actually go as far as to try and feed babies completely harmless vegetables known for their bitter taste to try ti illustrate that it is instinctual for us to avoid them).
That being said this is my rememberance of what they had to say about Sour after mentioning the other four: "Sour is a bit more tricky."  That is all.  The flavor I was hoping their flavor expert woudl explain the instinctual craving for most was glossed over as a bit too tricky to explain at that time.
So I thought well you knwo what now I'm really curious, Wikipedia will help me out.  However... all this artical had to say about sour boiled down to "Sour is an acidic taste", which is tantamount to saying the sky is blue, both in it's vagery and truthyness.  I am hoping someone can update the sour section which seems to be the vaguest of the 5 basic sences in this artical, and has not off-shoot references unlike all the other basic sences, with more informatio abotu what sour is and why we might be attracted to sour or repellled from it.  67.87.164.190 02:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the extreme shortness of the sour section dissapointed me.  There are whole foods and candies based on sourness, yet only a stub of a section about it. Sabar 06:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should have its own article eventually - a single paragraph is a bit of a joke when sweetness is 11kb. I imagine our repulsion by strong sourness evolved to protect us from highly acidic substances that would damage our digestive tissue, however I quite like sour fruits myself - as long as they are not too sour there is a certain appeal to them. Being able to eat unripe fruits before another organism gets them is probably advantageous as well. I guess we'll just have to wait for someone to work on it though, I certainly haven't got the time right now. Richard001 07:12, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sour 

message: Where would the umami taste buds be on a taste map of the tongue? It strikes me that no taste map that I've seen has the umami-sensitive area on it! Scorpionman 01:57, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You've heard of savory because it means something else.   — Gulliver ✉ 00:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Umami 

message: In recent years, I've become amazed at the number of edibles whose discovery as such could only have been a consequence of adding a LOT of sugar to things otherwise entirely bitter and unappetizing. Only the most obvious of these is cocoa. If it's true that we evolved disdain for bitterness (i.e., this trait was selected for as a consequence of bitterness-indifferent or bitterness-loving people either dying from poisons or not being selected as mates ["eeew! he likes quinine! gross!" {"just a chaw o' willah bark between cheek and gum, ethel . . . "}]), it seems this development didn't rescue us from eating bitter things. Our weirdness merely impelled us to add sugars to these bitter things, thus discovering all kinds of wonders we still enjoy.
How on EARTH did anyone ever taste bitter cocoa, and think "hey, if I add a lot of sugar to this it'll be GREAT," but on the other hand taste some bitter toxic plant and not have a similar thought?
Personally, it seems much more likely to me that our ancestors were pretty capable of -- hello? -- recognizing plants that were poison by sight, and taught their children to avoid them. Bitterness doesn't compel us to avoid foods -- it compels us to add sugar and still eat them!
: My experience is that sugar has been extremely overemphasized in the western diet; consider that according to Economic Botany, cocoa was originally served as a drink with chilli pepper (and often thickened with cornmeal).  It wasn't until 1600's that Europeans got rid of the chilli and added sugar to make it more palitable to their tastes.  So the original role for cocoa would probably have been for its stimulant properties and a little bit for its flavor (think of it a bit like a spice).  Added sugar is not the norm for human evolution, it is the recent exception (the desire was always there, as well as for fats, because they are hard to find in nature).  If you give up foods with added sugar for a week or two, you'll really start to notice how good some things taste. -- Limulus 06:25, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  "How on EARTH did anyone ever taste bitter cocoa, and think..." - I can't claim it as a fact, but I imagine it's the caffeine and theobromine in cocoa that kept people drinking it. Like coffee and alcohol, we're often willing to eat something with an unpleasant taste if a pleasant effect follows. Once people tasted cocoa and felt good afterward, I expect they would have gone to work trying to find someway to make it taste better without losing the caffeine. 128.197.81.194 18:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evolution? 

message: Anosmia only refers to loss of the sense of smell, not to the loss of taste. Perhaps agustate would be more appropriate although I'm not convinced that it is a real word. It should be though.
I changed "food poisoning" to "accidental poisoning" in the bitterness section since food poisoning is actually a term for (microbial) food-borne illness, and is not usually preventable by taste.
I removed "Bitterness is the taste which detects bases" because it is untrue. Although many bases taste bitter, not all bitter compounds are bases. I also removed some of the details on denatonium because they are readily available at that wiki entry and not particularly relevant to this one. I also added in some about PROP because it is now used in human studies instead of PTC and is closely related to the compound. Smirkster 23:22, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bitterness 

message: Why you don`t admit taste of tannine / tea? It drawing of mouth - also as black thorn berry (Prunus spinosa) and Zeu's-wheat (ebony persimmon) (Diospyros). Isn't it taste?
And it is not anaesthetic effect - as well some substance (as some bitter cucumber peel and so on).
Alexandrov
:
Google give me only 161 documents for "Styptic taste"!!!
Who can find this taste in other languages - where this taste is more popular, in what nations / cultures?  Alexandrov 14:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...in German - only 74 for the "adstringierender Geschmack"... 
... but in Russian - 867 (Googly); or 18 728 (in Yandex - search machine) for the words "вяжущий вкус", and 24 400 for the "терпкий вкус" (it is russian synonim for this taste)! Would-be in the Russian culture this taste really more "popular" than in the English-Saxon ones? As Umami - in China culture?!! Alexandrov 15:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I added it. I think tart is a more popular word even though it sometimes describes sour taste, it is not as confusing at styptic. -Iopq 10:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok. My native language is russian, so you can find the best formula. It is interesting to look how (in historical time) humans in different culture can step-by-step add new tastes to  "sensual space" of ones. And what chemical mechanisms of tart taste?  Alexandrov 12:42, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Styptic or tart 

message: It seems weird to me that there are no references, and no external lynx, in this article. I'm no expert on the field, so I'm not planning to edit here...but it'd be nice and cyclopedic if someone would plop some "See also's" in this article.--RattBoy 00:55, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: Since the only people who seem to know what "kokumi" is are advertisers for the Ajinomoto flavoring company, I think reference to it should probably be removed. Meretrix 15:41, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kokumi 

message: This page really needs to be cleaned up some.  The "history" section starts off with a mention of Aristotle, but then devolves into a debate about umami, and touches on the concept of a metallic taste.  Umami and metallic should be moved down into that area of "other tastes", or even a new section called "Debate", since, after all, that's what it is. Of course, that would leave the History section gutted, with only a couple sentences left.  I don't want to touch it without something to replace it with.
Oh, and this article is currently linked to from the main page. (Through Sour).  Appearances are important... --Short Circuit 23:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? Umami is considered a main-stream taste. -Iopq 18:05, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Where does alcohol flavour sit in relation to the other tastes?  I know that I can taste alcohol with a blocked nose, and the flavour is a bit like minty or cool or astringent. --njh
:Ah, it is included in cool flavour. --njh 06:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know.  It seems a little astringent too. --njh 23:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is alcohol flavour orthogonal? 

message: Why is ethanol listed as both hot and cold? Surely it can't be both, right? DLCinMaine 06:29, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not? Something can be red and green at the same time (we call it yellow).  Remember that the cold and hot tastes are only weakly linked to temperature. --njh 07:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Mix mint and pepper and you'll get both hot and cold :)  -Iopq 08:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with DLCinMaine. Perhaps ethanol can produce both false-hot and false-cold tastes. But it will strike the average reader as counterintuitive. If it's true, more information on how/why ethanol produces both false-hot and false-cold tastes is necessary. Is it a single simultaneous hot/cold sensation caused by ethanol activating both the TRP-V1 ion channel and the TRP-M8? Or are there different thresholds: ie a low concentration might only trigger TRP-M8 and taste false-cold while a higher concentration might trigger both ion channels and somehow taste both false-cold and false-hot? Is this a unique property of ethanol or are there other substances that produce both false-cold and false-hot taste sensations? Please cite some external references. DLCinMaine isn't the only one confused by this statement. I'm sure many of us would like to learn more. 66.17.118.207 19:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethanol

message: I propose that we get rid of cold/hot. We should have a section on spicy and explain that "spicy" is the feeling of pain on the tongue and it can be achieved with different means. Some people say wasabi is spicy but it doesn't contain the chemical pepper contains. Now instead of hot we should say warm so as not to confuse it with spicy. And instead of cold we should say cool. -Iopq 22:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some serious reconsidering required about cold/hot 

message: Why is this section marked as needing citations? It clearly refers to the main Umami article on Wikipedia, which has the required sources. Do we really need to duplicate all that here? - TomW 9/16/07  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.88.113 (talk) 23:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Umami dispute and rewrite 

message: I noticed that the article on taste buds says this: "Contrary to popular understanding, taste is not experienced on different parts of the tongue. The "tongue map myth" was based on a mistranslation of a German paper that was written in 1901 by a Harvard psychologist. Though there are small differences in sensation, which can be measured with highly specific instruments, all taste buds can respond to all types of taste." Yet this article seems to lend credence to the tongue map. Which is right? Wadsworth 21:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed the very same thing myself.  I'll see if I can't find an answer, but it would really be nice if we can get an expert opinion on this one.  Since you brought this up 11 days ago and this is the first response, I'll assume none of this article's watchers have the answer (or at least just missed it).  I'm going to put the conflict flag on this and the taste bud article.  --Reverend Loki 22:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Those taste maps are most definitely wrong. They were trying to show that a specific area of the tongue was responsible for a particular taste (salty etc). However, all the modern research that I've seen agrees that there may be differences in the level of sensitivity on different parts of the tongue. For example, Contrary to popular understanding, taste is not experienced on different parts of the tongue. Though there are small differences in sensation, which can be measured with highly specific instruments, all taste buds, essentially clusters of 50 to 100 cells, can respond to all types of taste. Quote from http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/news/ng.asp?n=69724-sour-taste-flavour-perception - I assume this is what the article is trying to explain when it says that there is some scientific basis. It's not exactly contradicting the other article. But perhaps needs to be expressed more clearly. --Alexxx1 (talk/contribs) 04:10, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tongue map myth: inconsistency between articles 

message: "Copper, Iron, blood, etc.. All seem to have a kind of metallic taste to them". I know nothing about this topic, but this is clearly badly written and suspiscious (although they certainly do have a kind of metallic taste). — mæstro t/c, 09:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed this section because it's clearly unresearched and uninformed, even though I do agree that there is a "metallic taste" in some form. Except that bloody tastes salty, not metallic. ~ Oni Lukos ct 16:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Though not really important, most people think that blood has a metallic, sometimes described as coppery, taste to it.  Likely this is a result of the hemoglobin, which contains iron.  But yeah, the section needs more research to be included.  Oh, and if your blood tastes salty, might want to consider laying off the sodium for a while ;)  --Reverend Loki 17:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But I like salt :< Oh, and, uh, I'd never heard that before. I've only ever heard of it being described as salty. ~ Oni Lukos ct 22:52, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...Interestingly enough, blood sort of tastes meaty to me. Well, it tastes like a mix between savory and metallic. But I find the metal taste sort of interesting, I'd like to see more on that.141.153.73.101 21:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metallic 

message: This article definitely is in dire need of some more valid references.  For instance, where is the claim:
For many years, books on the physiology of human taste contained diagrams of the tongue showing levels of sensitivity to different tastes in different regions. There is some scientific foundation for these "maps", but they tend to oversimplify certain aspects of taste sensation.
supported??  It says "some scientific foundation" . . . isn't this screaming for a reference?  Also, where is it published that there are seven basic tastes?  Every scientific journal article I've found says there are five (where did astringent and pungent come from?).  Spiciness from Chili powder is not a taste.  It comes from a compound called capsaicin which activates nociceptors (pain receptors) in the mouth (or anywhere else, for that matter).
I think references should be in the form of scientific journal articles or books, not webpages or personal comments.  If you've researched an article from an internet resource, you need to make sure that article is referenced in journal articles or books and, if possible, list those as well.  --Mhsia 15:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Blood tastes metalic, definitly of coper, I've always heard this was atributable to the iron in the blood (hemoglobin) but it does taste slightly salty too, all blood does contain salt.  That being said, I think there needs to be a metalic basic flavor section because I have oft found that metals have flavors I cannot describe except by saying "coppery" or "Like steel" Salt is actually a mineral though and when you really think about it most of our basic tastes revolve around non organic substances such as salt, acid, alkoloids, and perhaps metals liek iron and coper, except for sugar and perhaps protien (which I have heard described as being called Umami or Savory but this artical claims those are not protien flavors but in fact sugars?????  perhaps I am miss-understanding it).  67.87.164.190 02:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsupported Article 

message: There seems to be conflicting wording here.  The third sentence of the Basic taste entry states: "Scientists describe seven basic tastes...", and proceeds to list them.  The last basic taste listed is umami, a word I was completely unfamiliar with, so I clicked its link.  The Umami entry's first sentence begins " Umami is one of the five basic tastes...".  Can we get a definitive number of "basic" tastes? 74.119.51.41 00:42, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to this article there are five.  I'll change it.  I'm not sure other people can access this though.  Shall I add it as a referance anyway?  --PhiJ 10:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

text: And also you get about 80 hits on google scholar with "five basic tastes" (in quotes), but only one with "seven basic tastes", and that's talking about Aristotle's theory.  --PhiJ 10:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many basic tastes are there? 

message: I removed the following paragraph:
:Due to a lack of a specific word for this flavour in English ("hot" properly refers to temperature, and "spicy" to any spice), the French term piquant is occasionally used. Pungent is also employed, especially among people of Anglo-Indian ethnicity. Many other languages are not afflicted by this deficit e.g. Chinese 辣 (là), Finnish tulinen, Hebrew "חריף" (Hariph), Hungarian csípős, Japanese 辛い (karai), Korean 맵다 (maepda), Malay pedas, Russian острый (ostryi), Serbian (љуто), Swedish stark, Thai เผ็ด (phet) and  Vietnamese cay.
First of all, in modern American English (at least), "spicy" in a casual culinary context most certainly m
eans "causes a characteristic burning sensation in the mouth". "Piquant" is much more likely to be found i
n ad copy or restaurant menus as an affectation. "Spicy" to mean "full of spices" has long been obsolete. Thus, English does not have a "deficit" here. Furthermore, some of the examples from other languages were wrong. In Swedish, for instance, stark can mean "spicy" in a culinary context, but simply translates as "strong" and can be used to describe coffee and so forth, or even people. The paragraph is mostly irrelevant and contributes nothing to the discussion of spiciness. Readers interested in the appropriate equivalent of "spicy" in other languages can consult the appropriate dictionary. 24.95.48.112 03:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Spicy"