Talk:Sergei Kovalev

message: Phrase "According to representatives of Russian Ortodox Church" must be removed.
1. "Первый же эфир по деликатной проблемеЧечни не обманул ничьих ожиданий.Генерал Владимир Шаманов публично нокаутировал правозащитника СергеяКовалева как предателя российских интересов на Северном Кавказе –настроения поляризовались, победитель выявлен, тема закрыта. "  Here iswritten what Kovalev was knocked out in TV-program with spectatorselection by General Shamanov. And he claimed as betrayer of Russia inNorth Caucasus.
http://www.compromat.ru/main/prismi/soloviev.htm
2. "Что касается "молчаливого большинства" российского населения, то здесьзатруднительно дать какие-то оценки. Если верить некоторым опросамобщественного мнения среди москвичей, то в конце 1995 и в 1996 гг. онпользовался значительным доверием - большим, чем у большинства ведущихполитиков страны. Это подтверждается и уверенным выигрышем Ковалева навыборах в Думу в декабре 1995 г. Однако нет никаких данных, по которымможно судить о популярности Ковалева в провинции, или даже о том,насколько там известно его имя. " http://www.hrights.ru/kovalyov.htm
It is from Human Right Institute, where is Kovalev is director. Herewritten what they has no information about his popularity now. He wasquite popular in 1995-1996, but now nobody knows how his popularoutside Moscow, according that Institute. They also suggests what he isunknown there. They speak very polite but I think it is not about verypopular politician. :)
3. "У многих простых людей представление о правозащитниках связано с известным общественным деятелем  СергеемКовалевым, который снискал себе достаточно спорную популярность в годывойны в Чечне, когда он упорно и последовательно разносил в пух и прахполитику российского правительства в Чечне и столь же яростно защищалсепаратистов.  В награду за свое усердие он былнагражден в 1995 указом Д.Дудаева орденом «Рыцарь чести Ичкерии». В России же его деятельность получила совсем другую оценку. " http://www.radonezh.ru/analytic/articles/?ID=344
That article was written by second soviet cosmonaut A. Leonov (he isnot Church's speech person). Here is written what Kovalev is popular inDudaev's Chechnaya, but in Russia he is unpopular. The root of thatunpopularity in his actions for Dudaev's defense.
I can show many such articles. I do not know who is Kovalev in US andEurope, but in Russia he is betrayer. And if I tell somebody "you arelike Serega Kovalev", I will be beaten. Because his name is insultingand synonym of Judas Iscariot. - Ghoort 19:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Church 

message: Phrase "although this may be actually a result of propaganda byState-controlled media." must be removed also. SPS (Union of Rights)has the own propaganda, they have possibility to show us what they is.Before the elections they dreamed about 5-6% of votes, but receivedonly 4%. They are unpopular because they have right of speech. They doeverything to became unpopular. Ghoort 19:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propaganda 

message: Phrase "although the human rights violations before and during the Chechen wars are hardly comparable" must be removed. Nobody told what during Chechen war was perfect with human right. Kovalev claimed himself as defender human rights, so he was asked about Dudaev's human rights violation. But Dudaev is great for him. Basaev also is great for him. - Ghoort 19:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chechen war 

message: I removed information about them. Melnikova successed what she took money from Berezosky http://www.hro.org/ngo/about/2004/05/13-1.php . Alekseeva also took money from USA and Britain. But that article not about them -Ghoort 20:48, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Melnikova, Alekseeva and others 

message: *The personal site of Ilya Smirnov with such nice pieces of literature as "Goluboye Kalo" is a crap that can not be used in any article in Wikipedia but the article on Ilya Smirnov (see WP:RS).
:: But he gives references to his information. Ghoort 23:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That article from Compromat.ru is from Expess-grazeta. And what is wrong with Novaya Politica? Ghoort 23:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Of course, compromat.ru is not a reliable source!  It is more like "tabloid". Even worse, this place was designed specifically for "compromat", that is to discredite certain people.  So it does.  For example, it says that Anna Politkovskaya published lies because she hated her own country .   I also looked at the article in "Novaya Politica" you cited. This is an obvious Soviet-style propaganda. Main idea of this article is that Russia is surrounded by mortal enemies, such NATO and USA, who send their agents, so called "human rights defenders" to destroy the country, exactly as was written in all Soviet newspapers during Stalin's and Breznev's times. I do not think this is appropriate information for Wikipedia. Nothing like that could be published in major Western media.   Biophys 01:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is a very interesing article that you cited from Russian Ortodox Church    . It says that Kovalev and other human rights defenders are like tuberculosis bacteria that multiply very quickly in Russia and can kill the entire organism (so, one probably needs a strong medicine?). This looks pretty much as old Stalin's time newspapers that compared the "enemies of the people" with snakes. The paper is signed by someone in the rank of general (from FSB or GRU?) and claims to be a PhD in history. I can only add that the leader of this Church is Patriarch Alexius II, who is also known as KGB agent DROZDOV, as was revealed by  Mitrokhin, Gleb Yakunin and others.Biophys 03:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: "Since the days of Kovelev's vocal opposition to the First Chechen Waronwards Kovalev has become a target of strong criticism from the pro-government and nationalistic critics. These criticisms are especially abundant in fringe Internet publications."
It is only emotions. That article is not about Kovalev's critics. It is Kovalev himself. So we must not discuss person's of critics. If that emotions are will be in that article I must add phrase what about 90% of Russians claimed Kovalev as nit. Also he was not spoke against the war, he spoke against the Russian. According Kovalev all Chechen's action like hostage taking was legally acceptable. Ghoort 00:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emotions 

message: The "Controversy" section is not about Kovalev.  It is about opinions about Kovalev. Personally, as a reader of Wikipedia, I am not interesed in such opinions. I want to know who this person was and what he did. This is a place to collect not opinions but facts.  The entire section "Contrversy" can be replaced by a single sentense like the one proposed by Alex Bakharev: Since the days of Kovalev's vocal opposition to the First Chechen War Kovalev has become a target of strong criticism from the pro-government and nationalistic critics. This is true, and there is nothing else to tell about it. Biophys 02:46, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  We need only one sentence instead of the "Controversy" section 

message: Why was removed phrase about his extreme unpopularity? Also without any explanations. Ghoort 00:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unpopularity 

message: It is easy to added a part an information for you and remove theirs explanations. If you want to remove Yushenkov's death information, remove the whole. The part of truth is a big lie  Ghoort 00:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If the information you provided was related to work of Kovalev Comission, that would be appropriate. If you want to write a new Wikipedia article about Yuri Yushenkov, this is also fine.  In fact, I think that a paper about Yuri Yushenkov would be a great idea.Biophys 01:09, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why did you remove the information about Kovalev Comisson? There is no questions, this was an important part of his work. This is also about many good Russian people who were killed, and there is no justice. The so called "criticizm" is much less relevant, because this is not about Kovalev's deeds or people who are dead, but about opinions. That part is indeed unimportant and can be deleted.Biophys 01:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''STOP REMOVING!!!!!!!!!!''' 

message: Samara diocese is a official part of Russian Orthodox Church.  Please be careful before any changes. Ghoort 00:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Church site 

message: Guys, spend some time reading WP:RS, WP:ATT and WP:V.
The reliable sources are academic research peer-reviewed publications in academic journals, publications by major mainstream newspaper (that have fact-checking policies) and books published by major recognized publishers. Self-published books, internet publications, blogs, personal sites are usually allowed only to be a source of their authors. The reason for this is outlined in the WP:OR policy:  We are not publishers of original research we are to present well-established facts and notable opinions. 
E.g. publications on the website of the Samara Eparchy are not a reliable source of facts (since I bet they do not have established fact-checking policy and correspondent department) nor the E-zines, etc. They also are harldy notable by their impact on the public opinion in Russia and abroad.
We also has the WP:NPOV policy. Every opinion should be represented according to its weight. The strongly negative opinion of SK is the opinion by a section of Russian society that is not usually shared outside the Russian borders. Thus, the opinion should be represented but only as a minority opinion (better represented by Maxim Sokolov not as represented by an unknown Internet writer).
We also have the WP:BLP - no negative information on living people can be represented without very strong backing by reliable sources. WP:3RR is not applicable to the violations of WP:BLP.
Finally we have WP:3RR - people reverting an edit more than 3 times in 24 hour period are to be blocked. Please be warned. Alex Bakharev 03:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. So, it probably would be O'K if Alex Bakharev as a user most familiar with Wikipedia policies decide which sources are reliable and edited the disputed portion of this article accordingly? Biophys 17:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

text: WP:BLP rules say the controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous.  This means that if someone claims that livining person "X", which is described in this paper, takes bribes, acts from hatred, helps to terrorists, acts as a foreign agent, but this is not supported by reliable sources, such information must be removed immediately.  However, if the material is not "controversial" or not offensive for the living person - this is a completely different story. Among 6 references in the "Controversy" section, only two may (or may not!) be credible: Institute of Sociology (but this is a State-controlled organization) and Web site of Kovalyov's Institute (but I could not find names of people who actually run this organization and if they can be trusted).  The paper in HRW site was written by an anonymous author (there is no name), and this is essentially retelling the story from another source, and the original is unavailable.  I have described above the character of other sources. So, there is no other way but to follow Wikipedia policies.  If anyone can find well justified "Controversy" materials, this would be fine.  Biophys 01:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Support. If an opinion is notable it can be supported by reliable sources, if it is not notable then it has no place within the article. The links in the deleted section looked like spam not supporting anything but just increasing the page rank of their targets. Alex Bakharev 01:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you. I removed the POV tag. ←Humus sapiens ну? 01:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Policies 

message: *In 1995 and 1996, he was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Being nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize is an honor, but it is not official or even prestigious. Any national legislator or about a third of the university professors in the world can make a nomination, and there have been as many as 140 some years. Nominators are requested to keep their nominations secret, so it's only those wishing publicity who make announcements, and more often it is impossible to verify. I see no reason to keep it. No offense to the subject, this is a general Nobel Peace Prize "nominees" issue. -Will Beback · † · 09:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed & removed. ←Humus sapiens ну? 10:20, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nobel Peace Prize nomination 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 10:03, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: The article currently (9 August 2021) claims that Kovalyov was "cooperating with the rebels of the First Chechen War (I assume that this is a alleged cooperation with the armed wing of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria) and urging Russian soldiers to give up". "Cooperating with the rebels" is a strong statement that needs a reliable reference or should be removed for possible libel (a reader could come to the conclusion that Kovalyov wanted Russian soldiers to die....) I am not familiar with the realities of the Chechen War... but a Radio Free Europe article published today does only state that Kovalyov "He urged Russian commanders to stop the assault", which is something completely different then "cooperating with the rebels". If there will not be a reliably reference for this alleged "cooperating with the rebels" it should be removed. Wikipedia is not the place for gossip or hysteria. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:01, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Information has already been removed. But only after here the claims against Kovalev were made much worse (and again without reliable sources). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:12, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cooperating with the rebels of the [[First Chechen War]]?