Talk:Pierre Clostermann

message: Clostermann had no allegiance toward united Kingdom  the fact the his Free French air squadron was under the practical command of the RAF doesn't mean these people served as mercenaries. He enlisted in the Free free forces and and no sort of enlistment into the RAF or other british official service  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E34:EFD2:6450:90EA:D191:D44:414A (talk) 20:31, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allegiance? 

message: Why is this article related to the French Language? Just because Clostermann was a writer? --93.40.68.25 (talk) 20:02, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  French Language? 

message: In French language :
"Le fait d’avoir enregistré le témoignage de M. Pierre Clostermann quelques semaines avant sa disparition et qui reconnaît, pour la première fois, sa présence à bord des avions qui ont bombardé le Cap Arcona est bien plus important.
Pierre Clostermann reconnaît sa présence dans les avions mais nie le fait d’avoir tiré sur les survivants dans les canots de sauvetages malgré certains témoignages contraires.  Les témoignages de qui ? dit-il. Qui a témoigné ? Où étaient-ils ces témoins quand cela se passait ? Ils ne pouvaient pas être dans les avions, c’était nous qui étions dans les avions. Nous étions les seuls à pouvoir voir ou alors quelques allemands rescapés…  Il poursuit :  j’ai trouvé que c’était malheureux, scandaleux, manque de pot, pas de chance. C’était absurde… c’est tout. Il n’y a pas de raison que l’on regrette particulièrement tout ça. On avait des sentiments pour les camarades, pour les gens qui ont été tués à nos côtés, qui étaient nos amis sans ça… En quoi ces déportés ont-ils été utiles pour gagner la guerre ? C’était plutôt à porter au débit des alliés qu’au crédit des alliés...   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.64.182.240 (talk) 14:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The sinking of the SS [[Cap Arcona]] 

message: To avoid an impending editorial conflict (as so happens on such Wiki articles) I have attempted to diffuse the situation and tidied up the article; the latter part of which best belongs in the discussion segment of this article as it makes no sense within the context of the encyclopedic narrative and refers ( I presume) to other articles relating to the Tempest and other WW2 related postings. As for Pierre's combat record, the 'Aces High' entry cross-references Air Ministry RAF operational record archives (specifically forms 540 and 541) filled in by Squadrons 1939-45 when a pilot made a combat 'claim'. These are prime references, and verification of Closterman's overall combat record. If anyone has supplementary references to back up any higher kill tallies , please include, otherwise as this is an encyclopedic article please keep text and content 'unemotive'. Thanks Harryurz 17:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating 

message: Oh yes Clostermann was awarded a DSO after WW II (I added this to the main article on him). He had bl... earned it to say the least. Most RAF officers received DFCs and DSOs quite fast (I'm not claiming that they didn't deserve them). PC ought to have got his DSO DURING WW II. They simply forgot him, it seems. Or did they?
Source about PC's DSO: PC himself during several of our many telephone talks. It is certainly easy to check on this award in RAF archives at Kew.
Signed by: Yves Michelet, French WW II specialist and former friend (among many others) of PC's.
Not sure it's that easy to search the AIR 2 files for 1939-1945 RAF decorations. The National Archives advise you to consult the Ministry of Defence to try and find the exact file number before you go looking. And the London Gazette doesn't seem to have recorded Clostermann's decorations because he wasn't a British subject.
Clostermann certainly owned the insignia of the DSO. He's wearing it in that 1945 photo and at pierre-clostermann.com there is a recent photo of his medal collection, framed under glass, still in the possession of his family, and it includes the DSO on the left of the second row from bottom.
http://www.pierre-clostermann.com/decorations.html
But it's not clear he was entitled to it. His obituaries in the British press mentioned other awards, but not the DSO. In the year 2000, Scale Aircraft Modelling magazine in Britain published a reader's letter which criticised Clostermann for, among other things, wearing the DSO to a D-Day commemoration at Bayeux in 1994. Clostermann himself wrote a reply claiming that the medal he wore 'in front of' (to the viewer's left of) his DFC was in fact that of a Chevalier de la Legion d'Honneur, the ribbon of which, he said, was 'red with a blue tinge -- as is the DSO.' But that's not true. The ribbon of the Chevalier de la Legion d'Honneur is pure red, with no blue border, and is a more scarlet red than the DSO. The cross itself, a five-armed Maltese cross with green foliage detail, is also quite unlike the DSO's. And Clostermann by that time was not a Chevalier but a Grand-Croix of the Legion d'Honneur. The insignia of a Grand-Croix, a scarlet sash and a huge gold star, is a bit burdensome, so he might have worn the simpler insignia of a Chevalier for preference, but the 'blue tinge' lie suggests he was in fact wearing a DSO when he shouldn't have been.
In the same letter, Clostermann said that his two DFC citations were 'enough for me.' He quoted both of them. He did not quote any DSO citation, and that can only be because he didn't have one. So, to a British audience, he correctly denied holding the DSO, even though he was quite prepared to wear it and claim it in France, which might explain why French sources often misattribute that decoration to him.
Even so, the French Wikipedia article does not at present credit him with the DSO (there is a similar discussion on the French talk page), though someone has wrongly stuck the DSO into the graphic that depicts his ribbons.
It seems that, even if AVM Broadhurst recommended him for the DSO at the end of the war, as claimed in The Big Show, what he actually received was the bar to the DFC instead. He could not then have received the DSO in addition without further wartime service, which, since the war was over, obviously did not happen. How he got hold of the DSO in his collection is obscure.  Khamba Tendal (talk) 15:33, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  NO DSO 

message: Before I address what I could in the article (citations etc.), I'll try to tidy this a bit. Problems spotted here:
* Parts of text unsigned and undated
* Sections out of chronologic order (last on top etc.)
What I'll try to do: 
* Reconstruct times and authors from talk page's history
* Reorder sections by times so assigned
If someone thinks this inappropriate, let me know, before I get to it in a day or two. Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 00:15, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  This talk page is a mess