Talk:Kenneth Williams

message: Re Added infobox with a known for section, which is what they are for. Sorted SparklyBauble (talk) 10:46, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The current WP:CONSENSUS is to not have one on this article. You will need to start a new WP:RFC to see if it can be changed. BTW known for sections are not a reason to add one. They are inherently WP:POV, prone to bloating and discouraged by the actor wikiproject. MarnetteD|Talk 17:20, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: SparklyBauble is now checkuser blocked, so this is a non-starter.-- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 19:14, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the uopdate . MarnetteD|Talk 21:01, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: 2021

message: :I wanted to find Williams' age from the article at the date of his death, without having to use a calculator, but what - no Infobox! Annoying. His education would have been useful, as he didn't study at RADA or such like, also if he had any partners. All this would have been useful in an Infobox. As editors we should be helping the reader, not massaging their ego, who may prefer an edit war. IMHO, it really is a bit of old nonsense not having an Infobox. So I support / restore an infobox each and everyday. SethWhales talk 00:54, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: 2022

message: The construction of "Though Williams was fondly regarded in the entertainment industry, he suffered from depression and found it hard to come to terms with his homosexuality.", although a conventional way of talking about depression, has the implication that depression has a very low prevalence in those who are held in affection by their peers, which I don't think is true. 
79.64.38.7 (talk) 19:38, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree that's not true. But it is only a possible implication, as the sentence can be read as just a contrast between a positive aspect of his life and a negative one. Even if he was well regarded, of course, by others in the industry may not have made this apparent. Is this any better: "Williams was fondly regarded in the entertainment industry; but he suffered from depression and found it hard to come to terms with his homosexuality."? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:53, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

text: This sentence struck me in just the same way as it struck 79.64.38.7. Does it indicate an assumption that depression is understandable, perhaps justified, in some people but not in others? The suggested alternative is an improvement, but the assumption is still there. Snugglepuss (talk) 12:24, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writing about mental health 

message: With reference to this assertion in the article:
"He frequently got into arguments with host Nicholas Parsons and other guests on the show."
Does this, as I'm guessing (not being familiar with the program myself), refer to mock arguments within the program proper, i.e., collegial "play" arguments for comedic effect (along the lines of KW's pretend meltdowns on Round the Horne, though perhaps impromptu rather than scripted)? Assuming yes, I think the statement should be clarified, as it's currently ambiguous and might be interpreted to mean that KW had actual, serious behind-the-scenes disputes with his colleagues. Jcejhay (talk) 16:52, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Or perhaps it's a gray area, given the panel-show format? (As on Would I Lie to You? for instance, where the panelists sometimes engage in ostensibly "real" little arguments that are, however, probably amped up to make for good entertainment?) Anyway, I'd love to see the statement in the present article clarified insofar as that's possible. Jcejhay (talk) 17:01, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: I've just edited the article to include a clarifying statement that I ran across in an editor's footnote to KW's published letters: 'Russell Davies, editor of The Kenneth Williams Letters, explains that Williams's "famous tirades on the programme occurred when his desire to entertain was fuelled by his annoyance,"' with citation. Davies goes on to say that "[w]hen he was really angry, he fell silent."Jcejhay (talk) 22:34, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arguments on <i>Just a Minute</i> 

message: CN tags are rarely helpful and smack of lazy, uncollegial editing.  They merely stick a plaster over unverifiable information, and allow it to remain there until someone can be bothered to find a source, which is almost unheard of - I found a CN tag from 2007 the other day! Unsourced content should be removed on sight, per WP:V. CassiantoTalk 22:24, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Or citations added, which is preferable. - SchroCat (talk) 22:28, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

text: The way I read this section (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Responsibility_for_providing_citations) in the page you reference, CN tags are not necessarily discouraged. It sounds like it depends. Here, the subject is no longer living (the big concern, obviously) and the assertions are likely documentable by the next editor who has the Diaries in front of them while editing. There is no particular reason to doubt the unsourced assertions I saw; they just ought to be matched up with the specific diary passages that support them. Jcejhay (talk) 22:33, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure why the diaries are needed: the tag removed was in the "comic performer" section. The only information not cited is about Round the Horne, a featured article which carries references to cover all that paragraph, none of which is from the diaries. - SchroCat (talk) 22:37, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this, for instance, regarding Hancock's Half Hour: "Despite the success and recognition the show brought him, Williams considered theatre, film and television to be superior forms of entertainment." Based on KW's known opinions I think it's likely the assertion is accurate, but really it ought to have a citation to clinch it. Jcejhay (talk) 22:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

text: In any event, if I'm being told that (1) we ought never to use assertion-level or section-level "citation needed" tags, or (2) that citations aren't needed if the documentation exists in another article that's wikilinked, then I'd like to see a larger number of editors testify to this. Jcejhay (talk) 22:53, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think anyone is telling you that. My comment about the information being on another article covered two points: firstly that the diaries are not used in the RtH informatio that is uncited here (it was the only paragraph not covered by a citation in the section you added the tag into); and 2. The RtH article has several sources that are accessible to get the information to use here. - SchroCat (talk) 23:00, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: So, Jcejhay,  very much at your fingertips, as it turns out. It perhaps would've been more beneficial coming here to seek a source rather than to tag it.  I'm sure, between SchroCat and I, we could've pointed you in the right direction, or added it ourselves.  I'm certainly not saying "never use" CN tags, I'm saying they are seldom ever helpful, unless it is used to aid an article that is under construction by someone who'll do something about it, as they have the sources. CassiantoTalk 23:53, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  CN tags  

message: It mislists(?) his death as being in the year of 1988! 2A00:23C7:2B13:9001:C599:16AB:8915:7F65 (talk) 00:42, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: All of the references including this one and the many obits (see this example) confirm April 1988. Perhaops you are thinking of a different Kenneth Williams. MarnetteD|Talk 03:14, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

text: This article in The Independent was published in 2005. Perhaps you were thinking of that? 205.239.40.3 (talk) 12:15, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. Oh! Sheeny! What's occurin'? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:07, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could of sworn Kenneth Williams died in 2005!