Talk:Anglo-Frisian languages

message: Were early Anglo-Frisian and Old Saxon really different enough from each other to be considered a Sprachbund? According to that article, a Sprachbund is made up of unrelated languages (Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai) or distantly related languages (Romanian, Bulgarian, Albanian). Perhaps dialect continuum would be a better term? Angr/talk 11:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sprachbund

message: "kirk is a loanword from Norse" assumedly like
bick, birk, breeks, sic, steek, thack and yeuk etc?
84.135.215.2 15:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Loanword from Norse

message: The map ought to be changed as it shows High German for the whole of Germany.
While it is true that most Low Saxon dialects are nowadays seriously endangered or moribund and being replaced by the standard language (High German, Hochdeutsch), the northern half of Germany is traditionally shown as Low Saxon (or Low German) speaking. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Unoffensive text or character (talk • contribs) 12:32, 13 October 2006   (UTC)
:There's a disclaimer about this on the image description page. —Angr 12:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's nowhere in Ireland, even in the Gaeltacht, where English isn't the majority language. —Angr 06:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: In the examples should "Frisian" be relabelled "West Frisian"? I presume that is what is meant, but I want to double check. Ireneshusband 20:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is, and I'll correct it, thanks. Bikerams 20:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is that section even there? "Swadesh list"-style charts without analysis don't provide any useful information, and with analysis violate WP:NOR. —Angr 14:04, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Aim was to expand the article somewhat, in line with the Dutch and (West) Frisian articles. What kind of analysis would be required? If the table is of no use, I won't be offended if it's deleted. Bikerams 15:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, it would have to be illustrating something specific. A chart like that could show sound changes that are unique to Anglo-Frisian (assibilation of k before front vowels, Anglo-Frisian brightening, etc.), but then the examples would have to be specific to the topic, not just the numbers 1-10. —Angr 16:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frisian vs. West Frisian 

message: :Category:Anglo-Frisian languages is itself a category within :Category:West Germanic languages. — Robert Greer (talk) 14:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but this article is the head article of :Category:Anglo-Frisian languages, so it can be included in higher-level categories too. It wouldn't be very helpful to navigation to have it only in :Category:Anglo-Frisian languages and nothing else. +Angr 21:38, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:West Germanic languages]] ''vs.'' [[:Category:Anglo-Frisian languages]]  

message: Hi,
It might be easier to use a table with West Frisian and English words sorted in columns. Shall we include this table in the article?
Frisian  	English  	Dutch       	German
dei      	day      	dag         	Tag
rein     	rain     	regen       	Regen
wei      	way      	weg         	Weg
neil     	nail     	nagel       	Nagel
tsiis    	cheese   	kaas        	Käse
tsjerke  	church   	kerk        	Kirche
tegearre 	together 	samen       	zusammen
sibbe    	sibling  	verwante    	Verwandte
kaai     	key      	sleutel     	Schlüssel
ha west  	have been	ben geweest 	bin gewesen
twa skiep	two sheep	twee schapen	zwei Schafe
hawwe    	have     	hebben      	haben
ús       	us       	ons         	uns
hynder   	horse    	paard       	Pferd
brea     	bread    	brood       	Brot
hier     	hair     	haar        	Haar
ear      	ear      	oor         	Ohr
doar     	door     	deur        	Tür
grien    	green    	groen       	Grün
swiet    	sweet    	zoet        	süβ
troch    	through  	door        	durch
Maybe this link to YouTube can be used as well in the external links. It clearly shows some simularities between both languages. Kind regards --Kening Aldgilles (talk) 18:38, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simularities West Frisian - English 

message: Let me guess, this article was written from ancient public domain sources? The concept of "Anglo-Frisian" as an exclusive language family from which descended English and Frisian has been outdated for decades if not at least half a century. The two language families descend from the "Ingvaeonic" (North Sea Germanic). There was no Anglo-Frisian intermediate stage. (And contrary to what is stated in the "see also" parenthesis at the beginning of the article, Ingvaeonic also includes the Saxon languages!)
Similarities between English and Frisian are attributed to relative geographic isolation: these two languages retained common Ingvaeonic features longer while the other West Germanic languages diverged and evolved due to contact with other languages. In the period before the emigration of the Angles to Britain, there was no especial relationship or closeness between them (the Angles) and the ancestors of the modern Frisians on the European mainland.
For brief outside reference, see An Introduction to Old Frisian §225 ("The Anglo-Frisian complex"). This should be available for free online reading on Google Books. --Unedel (talk) 19:11, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, at least one of the references the article cites is from 1998 and uses the term "Anglo-Frisian". I don't think there is yet any thorough consensus on the issue of whether or not English and Frisian formed a group together after the departure of Old Saxon. The evidence probably is not sufficient for such a consensus to ever be found. At any rate the concept of "Anglo-Frisian" as a distinct grouping is certainly NOT outdated, it just doesn't enjoy universal agreement. And the same could be said of just about any grouping of West Germanic languages, including West Germanic itself. Angr (talk) 21:04, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead concept 

message: In the table "Frisian/English vs. Dutch/German" the entry for sibbe/sibling/verwante/Verwandte should probably be removed. 
In my native Dutch there is no equivalent (that I know of) for sibling; the dutch words for brother(s) and sister(s) are used instead. A "verwante" can be any relative. 
German uses the word "Geschwister" for sibling(s) and "Verwandte" can also mean any relative. AlexFekken (talk) 09:36, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And in German we have the Wort Sippe, which is not so common, but also mean Family. Sippe - Sibling... And WHY is no Low German in this list? I'm really sure Anglo-SAXON is closer to Old SAXON (the older form of Low German) then to Old Frisian. What I know the Anglo-Frisian idea is old and the Ingvaeonic idea is more populare at the moment. --84.46.11.97 (talk) 11:46, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The Ingvaeonic idea doesn't rule out Old English and Old Frisian being closer relatives to each other than they are to Old Saxon, and they do have more sound changes in common. But still, the three were almost certainly mutually intelligible as the differences between them are only very slight. Angr (talk) 20:30, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

text: I agree with AlexFekken. The English "sib," which appears to be closer in meaning to the German "Sippe," seems like it would fit this row better than "sibling," which is "siblin" in Scots, "Geschwister" in German and doesn't seem to exist in Dutch or Frisian. But it's such an odd word to include, in any language, in a table of otherwise common words. I agree that this row should be removed from the table. Metrowestjp (talk) 07:45, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not every "verwante" is a "sibling" 

message: The old one was moved to "Anglic languages" and then, under the guise of a "merge" to History of English, an editor simply deleted the entirety of its content (0 edits occurred to the new article at the time of the "merge") and replaced it with a bad redirect.
If English is the single and only member of the "English languages" then the redirect should point to English language (not the history article). If there are several members, then there should be some article developed that discusses and links to them. — LlywelynII 03:22, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: We need a new article on the "English languages"

message: Please let us not deceive ourselves, the lexic of English is mostly Latin and French (58%) and 26% is germanic then what remains is the Greek and propper names. So is a creole language in the sense, the old English if it was germanic (Anglo-Frisian).
The only anglofrisian languages ​​that remain are the Scots (because Scotland had no French and Roman penetration as "England") and Frisian in Netherlands, Germany and Denmark.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.218.117.110 (talk) 00:07, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Languages are not solely defined by lexical origins. If you have reliable, verifiable, published sources which question English being a Germanic language, then please cite them. - BilCat (talk) 20:00, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

text: it is a settled fact that English is considered a Germanic language. Whether or not that is true is another thing, but this is just listing the place on the tree. Spiel (talk) 08:52, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

text: The Catholic Mass was not understood by anyone beyond the nobility for those centuries-after-centuries because the common people were illiterate.  Any Latin influence on the Scots language came via French.104.169.39.45 (talk) 11:18, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  English is not a Germanic language anglo frisian 

message: I don't understand why these are listed. They are dialects according to the article. If we are adding those, the tree is much bigger. The USA alone has over twenty. Spiel (talk) 08:50, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northumbrian and Cumbrian