Talk:Kemetism

message: There's kind of an apologist slant in favor of the House of Netjer/Kemetic Orthodoxy; I cleaned up the biased language a little, but I don't trust myself to get rid of it entirely, as I'm pretty biased towards the House of Netjer myself. Anybody want to have a go at it?
As an aside, it'd be interesting if someone put in about the history of rivalry between HoN and Per Ankh. Switchercat 03:42, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting, they are indeed different ideas using the same word, I will endeavor to dig deeper into this, and hopefully find where the discrepancy stems from.IanCheesman (talk) 22:06, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The definition given of 'monolatry' in the article conflicts with the Monolatry article. I'm not sure if there should be a mention or not - I encountered this page via the random feature and know nothing about the topic :) Cheyinka 05:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting, they are indeed different ideas using the same word, I will endeavor to dig deeper into this, and hopefully find where the discrepancy stems from.IanCheesman (talk) 22:06, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Monolatry

message: The New Kemet Movement is a relatively new separatist (religious)
movement, fifteen to twenty years old, sponsored by the Kemet or
Khamit Society, a secret society of African Americans who preach and
practice the afrocentric doctrine and faith of black separatism,
black nationalism, black apartheid, black racism, and black
supremacy. This nationwide group was nearly successful in gaining
legislation for an all black school district in Milwaukee, Wisconsin
under its leader Howard Fuller through the passage of state
legislation defining apartheid boundaries for an all black school
district in the late 80s. The apartheid legislation had passed one of
the Wisconsin legislative houses and only through the monumental
lobbying efforts of a back principal, Texas Bufkin, who took three
bus loads of black parents to Madison, Wisconsin, during that
historic struggle in the late 80s, to lobby the Wisconsin legislature
against the formation of the all black segregated school district,
did the nearly successful apartheid efforts of Howard Fuller's Kemet
movement fail. So powerful is the Kemet or Khamit Society, Texas
Bufkin was subsequently fired by the school district for her efforts
at reversing the separatist legislation. The Kemet Society today
claims 150 members in the Milwaukee area and over 10,000 nation wide.
The Ausar Auset Society is the local religious Kemet cult in
Milwaukee. Reports of polygamy, female circumcision (FGM), incest,
and child abuse, as practiced by the ancient Egyptian pharaohs and
ruling class of Egyptian elite society, surround the
eclectic/syncretic cult society. The afrocentric revisionist history,
philosophy, education and doctrine and the self-esteem arguments of
afrocentric practitioners is a way for the Kemet (Ausar Auset)
movement to maintain access to public school tax resources to support
their afrocentric heathen and pagan practices of acient Egypt through
vouchers for religious charter and choice schools.
 
this is apparently a statement by Kemetic Orthodoxy, dating to 2000, but it survives only in this archive on arthurhu.com 
:The Ausar Auset Society is the local religious Kemet cult in Milwaukee. Reports of polygamy, female circumcision (FGM), incest, and child abuse, as practiced by the ancient Egyptian pharaohs and ruling class of Egyptian elite society, surround the eclectic/syncretic cult society.
*Not Yet "Free at Last": The Unfinished Business of the Civil Rights Movement : Our Battle for School Choice  (1999) 
 Former Milwaukee Superintendent of Schools Howard L. Fuller, a voucher supporter, was described in a Washington Post post-election story (on the failure of vouchers at the polls) as a "professor of education at Marquette University who formed an organization called the Black Alliance for Educational Options (BAEO)." Following his funding trail reveals that the Black Alliance is in fact a project of the Institute for the Transformation of Learning, based at Marquette University and founded by Fuller in 1995. Between 1996 and 1998 it received at least $360,000 from the Bradley Foundation alone. Marquette University itself is one of the top Bradley Foundation recipients, getting more than $6.6 million from the foundation since 1986.  
outside the document cited, I find no evidence linking Fuller and Ausar Auset. Also, hardly any evidence of a "Kemet Society", outside a single crackpot site kemetway.com. This appears to be a conspiracy theory then?
The connection with female circumcision is also tenuous. Here is a quotable article at least, 
Constitutional protection for bazar multiple cultural practices
Education,  Project Innovation,  Winter 1997  by Leon W Todd Jr (Director, Board of Directors, Milwaukee Public Schools, Box 2181, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201-2181) 
:Local school officials in Milwaukee, Wisconsin have had some major problems dealing with religious education within public school classrooms, and with drug dealing and usage as parts of religious rites of passage. These problems are typically associated largely with Afrocentric Religious Cults, and in connection with the U.S. Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) passed by Congress in 1993. ...  A number of presently organized religions cults like Ausar Auset Society, Yonuba, and Rastatarians have bet on this law and maybe the charter schools movement to guarantee their full access to public tax moneys via the budgets of public school districts. The intent for use of such tax moneys was primarily to foster the spread of their religions. In discussions about the separation of church and state and in debates over race relations within the public school setting unwarranted legal speculation and "race card" posturing about possible constitutional protection for certain bazaar multicultural practices of Afrocentric Cults like polygamy, incest, female circumcision (FGM) and certain forms of child abuse based on the genetic culture coming of age of race specific adolescents within different races (different cultural groups for the intellectually confused) are no longer appropriate. These cultists have been very orthodox to the North African region, and have been referred to as rites of practices of the ancient pharaohs. Many of these ritualized forms of child abuse as have been practiced in our Black communities under the protection of RFRA in the United States can now be appropriately prohibited under the law.
 After five years of operation, the CSRC determined that Khamit Institute was not operating an academically or fiscally viable organization.  The school will cease operations at the end of the 2003-04 school year. 
--dab (𒁳) 09:14, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: THIS STATEMENT IS INCORRECT, BIAS, RACIST,AND PURE IGNORANT. I SUGGEST YOU STUDY DR. JOHN HENRIK CLARKE AND ALSO CHIEKH ANTA DIOP. MAYBE EVEN DR. PHIL VALENTINE, ANTHONY BROWDER, PROFESSOR KABA KAMENE. LEARN SOMETHING FACTUAL BEFORE YOU SPEAK ON MY ANCESTORS CULTURE. ITS VERY OFFENSIVE THOSE LABELS THAT YOU TRY TO PUT ONTO MY PEOPLE. WE DO NOT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT THE IGNORANT DISRESPECT. DO YOUR DUE DILIGIENCE OR DON'T SPEAK ON WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW. THANK YOU. ASÈ. 2600:6C5E:467F:326E:6857:80C3:2FE8:1B78 (talk) 06:00, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: New Kemet Movement

message: http://www.per-ankh.org/ has been online since 2002. It is still full of lorem ipsum placeholder text.
Knocking up a website and leaving it unattendend for eight years does not make you a "religion", at least not one that meets Wikipedia's inclusion threshold. --dab (𒁳) 09:59, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Kemetic Traditionalism

message: Unless an organisation is notable enough for an article, I don't think it should be in this article. A few mentions on forums and a website aren't enough. I've deleted a few, and redlinked one where it is clear there should be an article. The section on reconstruction obviously needs work, see  if anyone is interested. Dougweller (talk) 07:43, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cuts and suggestions for expansion 

message: Currently, the Church of the Eternal Source is listed as "New Age".  However, from the description in the header of the New Age Article, New Age is "a Western spiritual movement that developed in the second half of the 20th century. Its central precepts have been described as 'drawing on both Eastern and Western spiritual and metaphysical traditions and infusing them with influences from self-help and motivational psychology, holistic health, parapsychology, consciousness research and quantum physics'".  From looking over their website, http://www.cesidaho.org/ , I am unable to find any evidence of them being any more "New Age" than any of the other groups here.  I think they should either be in a large section with Kemetic Orthodoxy (like how all the black nationalists are grouped together, the non-black nationalist ones could) or have their section renamed. Thunderstone99 (talk) 14:21, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Church of the Eternal Source 

message: Being that the people of Kemet were what we would call black today, it seems weird that there is a section in this name.
"Black Blackism" Really odd. Ausar Auset society should just be listed without any separation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vapblack (talk • contribs) 23:38, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: You are begging the question by assuming Ancient Egyptians were what we would call black today. That's still a fringe hypothesis. Dougweller (talk) 09:32, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  And one not typically supported by archaeology or representative subclades within archaeogenetics. Honestly, this article is in rather sad shape. I'll improve some of the prose, but it desperately needs reliable sources. The same with the majority of pages related to Kemetism, especially the Kemetic Orthodoxy page, which is heavily promotional, unsourced, and full of OR and SYNTHESIS. I'll do what I can, but unfortunately I think reliable sources on reconstructionism are lacking in general. Quinto Simmaco (talk) 08:45, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It was originally supported by the fathers of Egyptology in the 1700s but later shifted by those Egyptologist who choose a narrative that favored a European non-African origin/connection.  A course correction has been made and grows as more and more scholars seek the truth. Catalyst Inspire (talk) 18:48, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

text: This is not a fringe hypothesis! But a proven fact by top scholar’s utilizing anthropology, archaeology, linguistics, Genetics, historical records, including the Kenites themselves, statues, etc. Catalyst Inspire (talk) 18:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Kemetism 

message: Before I undo the edit by the anonymous IP, I wanted to ask why they reverted to a less coherent, and grammatically incorrect caption. Perhaps I'm missing something, but there didn't seem to be a reason for it. I posted a request for clarification on the user's talk page as well. If I don't see a reply, I'll rollback the edit. Quinto Simmaco (talk) 13:19, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caption Revert 

message: I've started a draft to revise this article, so that I can introduce citations at my leisure. I didn't want to clutter up the mainspace with possible OR and have it be summarily challenged before I could introduce the appropriate citations to support it. Anyone is welcome to edit it, so long as you provide your reasoning for those edits on the talk page. It's located here: User:Quinto_Simmaco/Draft:Kemetism. Quinto Simmaco (talk) 14:20, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Draft Article

message: The recent revision made by 87.5.115.110 on 30 March 2017 attributes to a doctoral thesis by Harrison the following assertions:
* Kemetic Orthodoxy has been the most prominent group
* Kemetic Orthodoxy is a form of monism
It also removed the following content, citing OR:
* Mention of Reconstructionism as an alternative (uncited, but an obvious counterstance to modern takes on ancient Egyptian practices such as the KO organisation)
* Reference to KO as a "Henotheistic" religion (as stated by HoN itself)
* Reference to Neo-Atenism as an alternative (admittedly difficult to cite, however something like Tameran Wicca is probably a better example of a non-reconstructionist alternative)
I have three issues with this revision:
# If we're going to remove information as OR, we can't replace it with OR. We need to reach a consensus as to what type of religion KO falls under. I feel their own choice of Henotheism (not Monalatry, for the reasons already discussed) is very accurate, and autociting.
# The reference cited in the previous revision has been left in. I don't know if the added material is supported by this citation, as it is not accessible online, being a doctoral thesis. If it is an accurate reference, can a quote be provided? If not, the citation will need to go or be replaced.
# As it stands, the introduction to Kemeticism basically states that Kemetic Orthodoxy eclipses all other forms, without bothering to even name them. This is entirely biased towards KO, the previous wording was much more neutral.
I propose a revert for these reasons. Wasechun tashunka (talk) 19:35, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if this helps, but see Harrison's blog..  Doug Weller talk 19:07, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I've restored the original version that had the Harrison source. His book was published in January by Routledge. I removed the bit with a cn tag as you shouldn't restore material removed because it wasn't sourced without a source. I don't like the word 'strains'. Doug Weller talk 17:08, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I can tell, his book won't be out until the 1st October. I added "including" to the lead, as it looks like the quotation used was cut off as it only listed one 'strain', but states that there are three. I have no way of accessing the thesis, but I'll keep an eye out for the book when it's released.Wasechun tashunka (talk) 17:16, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classification of Kemetic Orthodoxy 

message: In egyptian public, Kemetists literally means ancient Egyptian based nationalists, those who deny their arabic identity and have an ancient egyptian based nationalism are called kemetists in Egypt 
I believe such elaboration about that in the article is necessary Amr.elmowaled (talk) 01:08, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you provide sources that say this? A. Parrot (talk) 14:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

text: @Amr.elmowaled sorry, that means we can't add it.  Doug Weller talk 12:18, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kemetists means ancient Egyptian nationalists 

message: Kemet means land of the blacks. This refered to the native people not the soil. It is older than all modern day religions and it was not a religion when you speak of Kemetism it was a science. Just because one does not understand the knowledge left does not mean that it is based on strictly mysticism as some would believe. Many modern day theories and philosophies followed today were learned from ancient mystery schools out of Kemet. Kemetians were closely related to the neighboring Kushites and Nubians. 2600:6C5E:467F:326E:6857:80C3:2FE8:1B78 (talk) 05:53, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paganism is not Kemeticism.  Kemet did NOT refer to the black soil but the black people.