Talk:Alberto Contador

message: Fix it or I'm going to remove the text again. Nosleep1234 09:21, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. Nosleep1234 11:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations but no footnotes 

message: Origins of his nickname, "The Accountant"? Toby Douglass 09:21, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added this a while back, obviously not referencing it - my badness. I'll have a search to see where I got it from (and then reference it ;) ). SeveroTC 10:42, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only ref to this on his very thorough Spanish page is that his mates called him "Pantani" when he first started cycling, as he was already an amazing climber. His surname literally translates as "accountant" - or at least, Google Translate does. Google will also bring up more than one cycling forum with some wannabe claiming to have "invented" it. Obviously, it's not his nick in Spain... nor does "contador" generally mean accountant, in common parlance; it's more normally used to refer to something like a gas meter. mikaultalk 10:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: "Pintador"? – er, you sure about that? Contador might literally be "one that counts", but in Spain it gets primarily used for meters and other non-human ones that count... an accountant/book-keeper is colloquially a gestor, more formally contable, unless in public office, where you might find a contador público </pedant> mikaultalk 01:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I haven't found a reliable source for it, as, as you mention, it's just a translation of his name. Interestingly, I found a few sites that reference Wikipedia over it... SeveroTC 20:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nickname 

message: There appears to be some speculation about the blood clot. I found at least one reliable source containing this speculation . This may or may be (I can't read . If we get 3 or so, we probably should mention it after this "renewed speculation about his involvement in Operación Puerto" (not in the blood clot section). Nil Einne 09:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, mere conjecture from this "news" website... Keep it encyclopaedic, keep it WP:BLP. SeveroTC 10:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. Conjecture from multiple reliable sources is implicitly allowed under BLP. It is important here we get good sources, not tabloids. If & when multiple sources are found (currently we only have have 1, perhaps 2) then I would suggest you take it to the BLP noticeboard if you disagree but I think you will find you're wrong here (I'm a very strong supporter of BLP and also check the noticeboard not infrequently). There is nothing unencyclopaedic about us reporting very common speculation as speculation. Indeed, it's more unenyclopaedic for us to fail to mention any very common speculation. Note that there is a big difference between us saying that Contador's blood clot was due to reason X and us reporting that multiple reliable sources have speculated the blood clot may be due to reason X. It would be quite wrong for us to do the former, but there is nothing wrong with us doing the later, if true Nil Einne 14:39, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On second thoughts, I agree, but who has said it must be explicit. Regards, SeveroTC 14:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speculation about blood clot 

message: Someone recently changed Contador's current team from Discovery to Astana.  My understanding was that it is Discovery until next year, when he will move to Astana.  What's the lowdown on this? BrianTung 00:47, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're right, and an interesting point about when riders contracts expire has been in the Dutch courts lately as :Thorwald Veneberg has disputed not being offered a new contract by Rabobank . I just don't have the energy to revert these such edits only to change them back in January. In January, I will update all teams and riders (in the ProTour ranks at least, I'll do professional continental by the end of February) and refresh all the referencing. SeveroTC 13:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current team 

message: At the end of the page, in Sporting positions one can read: "Winner of the Tour de France (honour removed after decision of race officials; see Cadel Evans)", what contradicts with the intro text "winner of the 2007 Tour de France with team Discovery Channel". Aiarakoa (talk) 18:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. User:Peter Ellis made some changes but I'm not sure if it was vandalism or a lack of information.Drunt (talk) 19:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I apologise. I mistook a report about the Astana Team matter, which appeared in several forms that seemed to support my mistaken supposition. - Peter Ellis - Talk 12:08, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong info about Contador supposedly having lost 2007 victory 

message: I mean one of Contador wearing the maglia rosa, for that of the 5th cyclist winning the 3 grand tours, and there are already images of him wearing the yellow and gold maillot. 62.57.8.126 (talk) 18:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added one from my own, the problem is that I don't find where to put it, so I put it on the palmarés section and put the 2004 photo from there on the "early years" section. I think it fits well... Korlzor (talk) 14:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to say, that progression of photos is pretty damn cool. Kudos to all who put it together. Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 12:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  There should be a 3rd photo 

message: If somebody wants to start a peer review for A-class or Good Article review for this article, I would be interested in the results. The formatting of the palmares ("Major achievements") would interest me, just as the used templates in the bottom of the article (the "Sporting positions - Winner of the Tour de France" and "Tour de France Yellow jersey winners" are not both needed, I think one of them should leave, but I would like the review to determine which.)
I have not contributed to this article, and not enough time, so I don't start the review-process myself. I might help with it, though.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 09:19, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put it up for GA. It will be some time before a reviewer gets to it, so we can continue to improve the article in the meantime. Nosleep break my slumber 23:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review 

message: I worked on this article some time ago and I like seeing it on such a good status, thanks everyone!. 62.57.212.11 (talk) 13:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  GREAT on ga! 

message: it's a shame that a crack pot like greg lemond can accuse contador of doping and tell him the burden to prove his innocence is on contactor and wikipedia prints it here.  in america someone is considered innocent until proven guilty.  it's obviously not true on wikipedia. this incident should go in the greg lemond article and not alberto contador.  there is no evidence that alberto doped yet there is overwhelming evidence that greg lemond is a dope.  it is well documented now that greg's maths for which he based his character assassination are baseless.  so do you guys print any rumor or inflamatory thing said by someone as long as they are "noteworthy"? so if greg lemond said "i think alberto is a dick head" would you start a new section entitled "allegations of being a dick head"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.233.178.253 (talk) 15:16, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't agree.  Personally, I've always thought it was strange that LeMond protests so much about others doping -- because the fastest long time trial in the history of the TdF, faster than all the known dopers, was ridden by LeMond.  If we suspect them because of their performances, shouldn't we suspect him as well?  But that's just a side point.  the fact is, LeMond raised a very serious issue.  The person he quoted for the VO2 calculations, Antoine Vayer, may not be a household name, but he is considered the leading expert on cyclist physiology.  Thus, this can't be dismissed as the rantings of a crank, which is why I added it to the article in the first place.  Then I and others added the counter-evidence, as it became clear that many other credible people disagreed with Vayer's calculations (and LeMond misused them to some extent).  As the third rebuttal article points out, the area of focus here -- oxygen transport -- is a focus of anti-doping efforts.  Why wouldn't an encyclopedia briefly discuss the circumstances under which this measure came to widespread attention? - AyaK (talk) 21:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

text: I don't know why you keep posting about this.  Cycling unfortunately has never been clean of doping, going back to poor Tom Simpson and even before him.  The fact is, any championship cyclist is under some suspicion, and when we see a case like Danilo di Luca's, where the positive test took months, we know that cycling still isn't clean.  As this article in Sports Illustrated quotes a cycling writer as saying,"For Americans, doping is entwined with questions of character, with goodness and evil. For Europeans, doping is simply something that cyclists are known to do. C'est le métier, the French say: It's the job."  That doesn't mean that Contador's guilty, and I think we've done a good job of posting evidence that disagrees with LeMond's charges while maintaining NPOV, but it doesn't belittle cycling in general to discuss these suspicions. -- AyaK (talk) 20:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The current section is of undue wieght, as Contador's Verbier perforamnce haven't been investigated by any authorised body, and got less coverage in the real world than the Contador/Armstrong spat, let alone whole of 2009. YellowMonkey (click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 07:55, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If we're going by just by U.S. "real-world" coverage, everyone in cycling not named Lance Armstrong is irrelevant.  But the LeMond story was all over France.  And we have no idea what "any authorized body" is investigating ... except that we know that they were investigating Astana, based on the three-hour bus search at the Swiss border, which was just after Contador's climb up Verbier. -- AyaK (talk) 18:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Right...the article's original author is the one with the agenda, not you, who posted this diatribe. I find I don't care enough to proactively revert your edit, but it is accurate and verifiable that Contador has been accused of doping. It is also accurate and verifiable that he has never tested positive for anything nor faced any individual sanctions. I think that presents a balanced take on it. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 04:36, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: it's a shame

message: I've removed inaccurate and POV and misplaced-modifier wording in the section re: the controversial Schleck chain incident. For one thing, I think even characterizing it as a "mechanical failure" is POV at this point, because during the final TDF stage, the commentators revealed that the cause of the dropped chain was Andy's improper gear-shifting (something every cyclist has experienced when the biggest and smallest gears are attempted to be used together). For another, the citation does not support that Contador "claim[ed] he had no knowledge of the situation." For another, Contador and Schleck quickly reconciled and are the best of friends; Schleck staunchly defending his friend in every interview subsequent to that stage and decrying the people that booed Contador, praising Contador for letting him win the Tourmalet stage, and always calling him "a big champion." (By the by, I would have much prefered that Schleck had won the TDF this year, but we must remain strictly NPOV and WP:BLP.) Softlavender (talk) 12:24, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schleck and bicycle chain 

message: Editors might be interested in this, because it discusses wether the jerseys in the infobox should stay or go. Let's keep the discussion there. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 08:34, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. Contador should not be the exception. No cyclist bio article should have these icons. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 02:23, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

text: You obviously haven't read the project discussion referred to above. Kevin McE (talk) 16:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Starting a discussion does not mean other people did not contribute to it, so your response does not justify your earlier comment, nor does it negate the validity of my comment.  If you do not agree with the project consensus, raise the matter there: as I said in my last editnote,  project wide consensus is not established at one rider's article.  Kevin McE (talk) 17:55, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

text: You mean her and a few people ;) And I don't want that. Consensus formed at WT:CYC was for something else. But I'm always up for discussion. It doesn't seem that anyone else is, though, since it's been nearly a month since you posted, and no one replied. Again, No cyclist bio should have these icons. Whenever I see them, I take them out. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 19:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jerseys in infobox 

message: Hello I am Cruzado123,
I have tried several times to change the intro about doping allegations and I have been reverted.
I just can not understand why Contador, whose positive is still under consideration, has to had TWO ENTRIES OF DOPING allegations (one in the intro and one in 2010 Tour the France). Why one is not enough?
For example, Lance Armstrong who has a long list of doping allegations have only one entry. 
I really think these exaltations are made by some Anglo-Saxon writers (including the one of wikipedia) green of envy about the Spanish Sport accomplishments. 
If Contador is or is not a cheater will be ruled by the UCI. And should not be ruled by Anglo-Saxon-wikipedia-writers green of envy or by the same yellowish media.
Please, let one doping allegation in the biography of a man that it was not judged yet and not two. 
And next time, learn to play soccer or tennis better...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cruzado123 (talk • contribs) 04:07, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Anglo-Saxon? You mean the term usually used to describe the invading Germanic tribes in the south and east of Great Britain from the early 5th century AD? Contador's career is given a fair and reliably-sourced overview in this article. It's true that his current doping case has not reached its resolution. It's also true that this isn't the only one he's ever had. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the function of a lead – see WP:Lead section. To oversimplify it a bit, a lead section should summarize the contents of the article. Given that Contador has been involved in at least three doping cases (one of which he was cleared from, one of which never amounted to much of anything, and one of which is still pending), it merits mentioning in the lead. And I have no interest in soccer or tennis ;p Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 04:44, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, not that my personal life is at issue, but everything on my user page is true. de-1 and it-1 hardly mean "I speak" those languages, matter of fact they mean I have very little proficiency with them. It's not unusual to have low-to-moderate proficiency in multiple languages when you're a linguistics student. The only ones I speak fluently are English and Spanish.Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 01:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

text: If, before you are banned from sockpuppetry as will surely happen, you can point out one statement in the article as it currently stands that is not verifiably true, I will happily remove it.  Ad hominiem argument, assumptions of dishonesty on the part of long term contributors, and accusations of acting out of national interest will not gain you any support as a contributor.  Kevin McE (talk) 18:01, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's clear now that User:Cruzado123 and User:128.36.102.14 are the same person. I'd like to be able to work with this person, since he seems very passionate about this, but the passion seems more on the side of whitewashing Contador's hardly blemish-less record.Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 01:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why TWO ENTRIES of DOPING ALLEGATIONS???? Is it not one enough? Actually his positive is under investigation. 

message: It is as true to say that the sample that indicated 50 picograms per millilitre may have been higher than typical in AC's bloodstream as lower, and given the rounding necessary by the very small quantities involved, any claim such as 180 times must be assumed to have a similarly large error margin.  The qualification that Fairerversion wants to post seems to be argumentative rather than encyclopaedic: the "citation" that he posts contains no mention of plasticisers, and no refutation of the 180 times claim.  As such, I don't think the sentence can stand in the encyclopaedia.  As to the statement that this seeks to counter, the encyclopaedia makes no comment on the credibility of the 180 times claim, it simply says that it is the contention of Contador's adviser: that does seem sufficient to stand. Any argument to be made for the removal of that claim, or a well sourced rebuttal of it, would of course be appreciated.  Kevin McE (talk) 09:06, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs 180 times more: claim and counterclaim 

message: Why is he banned until that particular date?  I assume that he had a two year ban, but how did they come to the date of 5 August.  I can't find that date in the article as in a day that, say, the investigation started or anything like that.  Plus, since he was allowed to continue riding even after the investigation had begun, so how exactly how/why is he "banned" for just seven more months?  hbdragon88 (talk) 03:57, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: He is suspended from 25 january 2011 on (so his results after that date are removed), and the time he was temporarily suspended (5 months 19 days) was subtracted from the 2 years. See the press release or the full report. It would be nice to use these as sources in the article, but I'm out of time for today. --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 12:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And here is the explanation of the calculation from an independent source. --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 18:05, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And the reason 25 Jan is relevant is that that was the date, in 2011, of the initial ruling from the Spanish Federation. Prior to that he served a provisional suspension from the date of accepting the notification of an adverse finding (26th August 2010) until the lifting of that suspension on 14 February 2011, a period of 5 months and 19 days. No-one actually knew about the first 5 weeks of that provisional suspension: it wasn't made public until the end of September.  How the period from 25 Jan to 14 Feb is considered to be deductible from a period beginning the 25 Jan only the CAS can explain... By all means count the period from the beginning of the provisional ban, it would be unjust not to, but how is a ban from 26 Aug 2010 to 5 Aug 2012 a 2 year ban??? Kevin McE (talk) 18:21, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Pure speculation, but a proper two year suspension would prevent him from starting in the 2012 Vuelta a España, and completely ruin his season, so they did some creative bookkeeping... --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 21:29, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  5 August 2012 

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