Talk:Diploma mill

message: Edward Jenner may be the best-known customer of a diploma mill (W. Hadwin, Gloucester address, 1896; E. D. Hume, Béchamp or Pasteur, 1923). Obviously they're nothing new. 142.177.169.163 19:21, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edward Jenner 

message: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that Rick from Family Plots is also another customer of a diploma mill.  That one episode where the two people wanted to get married in the chapel of the funeral home he whipped out some sort of theology degree.  If I remember right, he apparently bought the degree to make himself an ordained minister.
JesseG 20:37, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family Plots 

message: This came up during the AfD for List of unaccredited institutions of higher learning, but perhaps this article could be moved to Unaccredited institutions of higher learning and replaced with a redirect there since diploma mill is quite POV. Peyna 05:49, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename article 

message: I realize this is off-topic, but we have a discussion going on in Talk:University of the Cumberlands regarding school accreditation and accreditation agencies that may be of interest to visitors to this talk page.
Posted to: Talk:Diploma mill and Talk:School accreditation
~Kylu (u|t)  04:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UotC accreditation conversation 

message: Are there accredited schools, or legitimate yet unaccredited schools, who commonly grant degrees based on experience?  My Master's Degree, from an accredited school, had prerequisites to get in, yet a large percentage of the applicants had those prereqs waived on basis of their work history.  Likewise my Chiropractor got in to Chriropractor school based on work history and test scores, while he to this day doesn't have a Bachelors or Masters.  Not to mention honorary doctorates, given even to Steven Colbert for his work on the Daily Show!  At the same time we've all known people who were at the absolute top of an academic field and held no degree.  So can we mention in the article, and I don't know enough to do it, schools that are legit yet will actually give a degree based largely if not wholly on properly demonstrated or documented work or life experience?  I'm not about to call this article NPOV, but can we have some argument for those who believe the system is only being bureaucratic in that it doesn't recognize real performance?  --Mrcolj 23:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Experiential Schools

message: I am changing this passage since to say they were specifically based in these nations gives somewhat of a false impression when it is likely they just had mailboxes there. It would kinda be like stating a multinational corporation was based in the Cayman Islands (or other tiny tax haven) when they probably have no employees and no infrastructure (possibly besides a single mailbox) anywhere near the Island.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 18:46, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Based in Romania and Israel" 

message: The following text, in various forms and under various headings, has been added (and promptly deleted) several times in the last several days:
:- Definition: Education institution not registered accordingly the law of a nation or country or awarding degrees without a license or permit. Unaccredited education institutions will not be considered diploma mills or illegitimate, if they are registered or have a license or permit.
The user inserting appears to be added like text to related articles.  Not only is the addition of a separate "definition" like this not in keeping with general wiki-style, it appears on the face of it to be factually inaccurate (a "licensed" business can still very much be considered a diploma mill, if the "license" in question is not an appropriate academic accreditation).  I would urge Consejero to consider his edits more carefully; if not, I hope an admin will do so for him. Robertissimo 02:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need for additional "definition" 

message: Hi Bill, the source listed doesn't include the quote below, and I couldn't find it elsewhere online. Is it from his book perhaps or another source?
"John Bear, a recognized expert on distance learning and diploma mills, explains,
"it is very risky to buy a fake degree or to claim to have a degree that you have not earned. It is like putting a time bomb in your resumé. It could go off at any time, with dire consequences. The people who sell fake degrees will probably never suffer at all, but the people who buy them often suffer mightily. And -- particularly if their "degree" is health-related -- their clients may be seriously harmed.[2]
Flowanda 18:36, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see it now...if it were a bear, it would have bitten me! (Sorry...couldn't resist) Flowanda 22:11, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  :-) good one! Bill Huffman 23:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Bear quote 

message: Article discussing the University of Esoterica Diploma Mill (http://www.geocities.com/university_of_esoterica/) has been removed a couple of times. This is an informative article with numerous references. Does the article violate Wiki policy? 
Sophia Sapientia 20:42, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * It looks like a personal web page. Who is the author of this "article" and where was it published? Also how does this specific text add anything to a general article on diploma mills? --JJay 00:42, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: * I am not sure who the author of the page is. It appears to be a compilation of information from several sources most of which link back to, or reference the original source. I believe that this page contributes to the understanding of diploma mills by looking at an on-going diploma mill and pointing out their fraudulent claims (such as religious degrees are not academic degrees and are exempt from having to maintain accreditation and academic standards). Sophia Sapientia 14:55, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: * Without an author and a reputable publisher, the "article" fails WP:RS and WP:V. See the section in WP:V on self-published sources. In addition, the links on the geocities page are all to the state school lists( Maine, Michigan, Oregon), which are already directly linked from this article. --JJay 15:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links / Articles 

message: The reason that I deleted the picture of the alleged diploma mill that was recently added to the article was that from my personal view it didn't seem like a significant or interesting picture. The alleged diploma mill in the picture does not have anything particular about it that makes it significant or stand out from other diploma mills except perhaps that it actually has a building associated with it and most diploma mills are post office boxes, private homes, or mail forwarding services. I do like the idea of trying to add a picture to the article though. Perhaps the picture of a post office box or a famous public building that is claimed to be the campus of some diploma mill might be more note worthy or interesting? I'm open to opinion. TallMagic 14:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *I've removed the image again. The picture is a distraction. It is not a typical diploma mill (there's no such thing, and many have no physical premises), so it really adds no information value to the article. Let people read the words in the article. --Orlady (talk) 04:29, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of alleged diploma mill 

message: I have an issue with the GAO section.
Kennedy-Western University is listed in the GAO section of this article on Diploma Mills.
The report referenced is clear when it mentions in its title to wit:
:DIPLOMA MILLS
::Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government Expense"
Kennedy-Western University now operating as Warren National University is directly listed, but is an unaccredited post-secondary institution of higher learning; not a diploma mill.
By including its name in the writeup at a diploma mill Wiki page is more along the lines of slander and unnecessary defamation of this legal unaccredited institution operating for 23 years.  In fact, mention of Kennedy-Western is wholly and erroneously gratuitous to this Wiki page on Diploma Mills.
I recommend removal of the Kennedy-Western University name from this section and this Wiki page to prevent guilt-by-associational thinking by the average Wiki reader who may not be up-to-speed on voluntary accreditation issues, nonaccreditation liberty, and actual diploma mill topics.
Additionally, the GAO section seems more like a review of the entire report at this page rather than what it needs to be; it is the largest block of single informational input.  I recommend it be cleaned up to a more appropriate entry suitable for this Wiki page.
First though, I am seeking thoughts regarding my comments prior to actual removal of the Kennedy-Western name as well as my rewriting this GAO section.
Rkowalke 20:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Rkowalke, you have not made an argument that seems convincing for censoring KWU out of the GAO investigation report. Please review WP:V, in particular "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source." Please check the references and you will see that everything stated is completely accurate and properly sourced. It is all verifiable. TallMagic 04:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GAO section

message: I removed an external link because it appears to be spam to me. The link doesn't seem to provide any value above and beyond the Wikipedia educational accreditation article. At first glance it doesn't appear to rise to the level of a reliable source, (which admitedly isn't necessarily required of an external link). It was originally added by someone that in three years has made a total of 4 edits. All four edits adding an external link to this same website. TallMagic (talk) 19:36, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of external link 

message: I must admit in the past I have been incredibly ignorant about the diploma mill issue, but that changed a bit over the years. There are several things I wonder about. For one: how does a University become an accredited University in the US system? Every new school necessarily is unaccredited. I myself attended Hawaii Pacific University, which just had merged with Hawaii Loa College when I started there - all in all a pretty good and duly accredited school. At the same time it started out as a small, unaccredited one class school back in the seventies. A degree from this school would then have been illegal and literally worthless in some jurisdictions. So how does that work nowadays? Law makes it literally impossible to start a new school.
But there is more. Many of the characteristics of unaccredited schools linking them to diploma mills are displayed by schools that certainly are not under suspicion of being in any way illegal - including the University of London external programme, The British Open University and some of the better accredited external programmes in the US, such as Excelsior College, Thomas Edison State College or Empire State.
What irritates me is that experimental and/or new approaches to higher learning are severely impaired by the accreditation practice as-is. The state or authorized entities define content and methodology, favouring established schools while effectively incriminating smaller and newer ones. From what I see the development of the past 15-20 years was that small, innovative unaccredited institutions were pushed aside while large and established schools more and more adopted the methods, approaches and technologies developed by the previous. Current legislation and public discrimination make it difficult for the small schools to attract good students and first rate faculty: who - after all - would want to be affiliated with something that is potentially perceived as a Diploma Mill? Why spend time, money and effort for a degree that afterwards needs to be defended and justified over and over again? Chicken and egg... There is a lot of criminal energy under way - that is for sure. There certainly are many, many fake schools issuing worthless degrees. But I think that there is an immense spectrum, where everything can be found. Accreditation is a way of quality management, but it also involves an arbitrary definition of quality. As a result it is - at least in part - a means of control: a system protecting itself.
I find it extremely difficult to judge the issue. The presentation in this article definitely places every unaccredited institution into the same drawer as diploma mills, which certainly discriminates and even incriminates the real efforts of establishing new educational models. Normally the legal guideline is "in dubio pro reo". Why is it different here? And why is there so much bitterness involved in these discussions? Fact is that accredited schools also differ greatly in scope and quality and it often does not take much to get a degree even from alleged elite schools. OFten the quality differs greatly from programme to programme within one school. At the same time the legend goes (according to John Bear) that even Cambridge University is not accredited. If this is true (I did not check), it would mean that the mere formality of accreditation is not really the point. It also would mean that a degree from Cambridge University would - formally - be illegal in Oregon and some other jurisdictions.
It is all rather strange.
Wassermensch 12:14, 4 May 2008 (CET)
:Hi Wassermensch, welcome to Wikipedia. I hope that you enjoy editting here. For general Wikipedia information you may wish to visit wp:welcome. Please note that this discussion/talk page is for discussing improvements to the article, not for discussions of the topic. Also, in the future please add new discussion topics at the end of the page rather than the top. (Note that it has been moved to the bottom, thank you Orlady.) That all being said, when legitimate institutions are first started up they are generally done with accreditation in mind. They generally become at least regional accreditation candidates for accreditation before the first graduating class completes. Which allows the graduates to have accredited degrees. But it's true that it can be a danger and should be considered whenever anyone enrolls in such a school. You point out that there's no fail proof formula for diffentiating diploma mills and unaccredited schools. At least not that has ever been formulated into a law. The reason for this is that educational institutions can be flexible and creative in how they approach their goals and diploma mills can be as well. It is true that the rise in number of diploma mill degrees being sold has severely limited the utility of legitimate unaccredited degrees over the past 10-20 years. Your last paragraph has used some facts and distorted them as I've seen done by diploma mill apologists in the past. I'm not saying that you're one but perhaps that's where it came from? I assure you that Cambridge degrees are legal anywhere in the world. If you look on the official list of UK universities you will find that Cambridge is "grandfathered" in as a legitimate UK university. Cambridge (along with Oxford, IIRC) was started up well before the crown or parliament needed to approve the opening of legitimate UK universities. If you wish to discuss the above type issues further may I suggest that we take it to my talk page? Now, the one thing you bring up that is totally legitimate/relevant for this talk page is your assertion that the article places all unaccredited schools into the diploma mill category. I disagree with that assertion. The simplest way to know that a school is not a diploma mill is if it is accredited by a recognized accreditation agency but, that is a different assertion. Regards, TallMagic (talk) 15:41, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Chicken and Egg Problem

message: Just wanted to note here that the proper citation for the quote in the South Korea section should be http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2006/03/21/2003298471 - this is more authoritative than the previously cited Yahoo News.  I'm not sure about referencing Shin, Jung Ah except through Korean language sources and blogs that offer translations... is there a point, except to say that her scandal caused a ballooning suspicion in Korea of people like her?  Darkpoet (talk) 07:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  South Korea 

message: It looks like there are years of comments here from people who are offended at the implication that unaccredited schools are somehow to be likened to diploma mills.  I was principal at a K-12 a few years ago, an amazing school where I could phone my kids into any major college without their even taking the SAT; but the school was also very deliberately and very passionately unaccredited.  I know of plenty of schools, some of them very high end, who don't seek accreditation.  Ditto with colleges--there are plenty of large and legit schools that don't play that game, and many others that are seeking accreditation but are as such unaccredited.  I think there should be at least a paragraph and probably a section disclaiming this.  Will someone please write one?  --Mrcolj (talk) 20:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Mrcolj, this article is supposed to be about diploma mills. I believe that the paragraph you refer to belongs in and is already part of the Unaccredited institutions of higher learning article. Regards, TallMagic (talk) 23:18, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

text: I added Unaccredited institutions of higher learning to the See also section. It already has a Wikilink in the article to this other article but the article is large enough that I didn't think it would hurt. TallMagic (talk) 23:55, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you.  Whereas the article mentions legislation against unaccredited schools, and a lot of people use "diploma mill" derisively to refer to unaccredited schools, I think the disclaimer should still be there.  But I'll defer to general opinion if people want to vote.  Again, I consider the recurring topic in the rest of this talk page to be vote enough.--Mrcolj (talk) 02:04, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You wanted to add the disclaimer to the article lead section, which is supposed to summarize the article topic. This type of disclaimer does not belong there. It is, however, in the first sentence of the first bullet under Diploma mill#Characteristics of diploma mills, which says: "They lack accreditation by a nationally recognized accrediting agency, although not all unaccredited institutions of higher learning are diploma mills." That's pretty prominent, and it should suffice. --Orlady (talk) 03:04, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Orlady's thoughts, although another supporting sentence added to the existing statement that Orlady refers to, might be a reasonable addition. Regards, TallMagic (talk) 04:46, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's act boldly regarding unaccredited schools

message: As the US section was so much larger than all others, and had a number of subsections of its own, i have breated a subarticle, Diploma mills in the United States, and ported most of the info over to there. I think this is better for readers looking for info on DM in general, and also better for people looking for specific US information (such as specific state laws or anti-DM efforts).YobMod 08:55, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Diploma mills in the United States|US subarticle]]

message: They're all unregulated institutions of "higher education" granting degrees with few or no academic requirements, just money and attendance. 199.117.69.60 (talk) 00:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it gainsaying to question whether there are accredited or regulated diploma mills?  I mean, I would assume the requirements for accreditation, etc. have sprung forth from an earlier lack of said requirements, and consequently accredited schools which weren't within the bell curve of rigorousness?  Would there not have been a time when many proprietary schools didn't give a crap whether you actually mastered the subject by the time you graduated?  On that logic, can any diploma mill require attendance? --Mrcolj (talk) 22:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  They're all diploma mills in the US. 

message: Started the page after looking for options for my Vietnamese gf to get a U.S. high school diploma based on her diploma from Vietnam.  Many, many of the online schools offering high school diplomas are not credited and will ship in 5 days.  It's amazing.  There are some home schooling online entities that seem to be legitimate and offer a HSED.  I've opened a can o' worms and could use some advice on how to expand the article.  A controversy section would be important.  Alatari (talk) 02:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hsed]] 

message: Clear consensus against merge. Guy (Help!) 15:20, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merger with [[Recognition of prior learning]] 

message: See Spiru Haret University#Problem solved in 2015. Tgeorgescu (talk) 02:37, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem solved in 2015 

message: Power to regulate these issues are held with the states not the federal government. Even the in the most states, a degree can be granted legally even without accreditation if the school is authorized by the state....I.e. Organ. Organ which has the strictest policy towards unaccredited schools or mills still allow state authorized degrees to be used Office of Degree Auth..  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Supercopone (talk • contribs) 23:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Being legal does not mean that it is not also a diploma mill. Diploma mill can simply mean legal but substandard. I also disagree with your assertion that Oregon has the strictest policy towards unaccredited schools. For example, degree use of unaccredited school degrees is much more strict in Texas where it is illegal to use such a degree. In Oregon, unaccredited degrees can still be used as long as they are declared to be unaccredited. TallMagic (talk) 05:31, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  We have left something out 

message: Please provide a source for the the following edit comment, "Mexican Secretary of Education retracted this statement regarding Alliant International University, having confused Alliant with another university." I reverted the deletion of apparently properly sourced information due to no source for this assertion. Zugman (talk) 19:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I cannot find anything about it on http://www.rvoe.sems.gob.mx/rvoe/Plantel/BuscadorAvanzado.php Perhaps it does not operate in Mexico? Or maybe it has never applied for accreditation within Mexico? Tgeorgescu (talk) 00:01, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The notice that is cited in the article is still available from the government of Mexico on http://www.setab.gob.mx/avisos/pdf/av2.pdf --Orlady (talk) 02:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Comment 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Diploma mill's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "thecb":
From Adam Smith University: Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas, Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, Texas
From Rochville University: Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas, Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board
From St. Clements University: Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas, Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, Texas state government
From Bienville University: Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas, Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 00:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Diploma mill]] 

message: The statement "The failure rates at diploma mills are significantly higher than at a recognized or accredited college or university." seems counterintuitive.  Don't diploma mills hand out degrees willy-nilly?  With this in mind, I'm deleting the statement. --S. Rich (talk) 02:44, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failure Rates? 

message: There is some confusion in the article due to the different meanings of "diploma" in some countries.  It is my understanding that the actual piece of paper issued for a qualification is often called a "diploma" in the United States.  Here in Australia and elsewhere such pieces of paper are called the "certificate" and the word "diploma" is used for a qualification using that name - such as a "Diploma of Music" (a "Certificate of Music" could also be awarded but would be a lesser qualification.  Can I suggest that the meaning of "diploma mill" be more fully explained as it would not be understood to be referring to bodies which issue fake diplomas / certificates in the name of legitimate universities etc in many countries. Afterwriting (talk) 05:48, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of "diploma". 

message: I see no reason why the table of contents is on the right, so I am going to move it back to the default for Wikipedia pages. Any disagreements? Piguy101 (talk) 00:12, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Table of contents location 

message: I haven't noticed any neutrality disputes on this page since 2013. Can you explain why you added this tag to the article in May 2014? Jarble (talk) 04:52, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops. Feel free to remove it, --L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 11:56, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{t|POV}} tag 

message: The mention of the honorary higher degrees in conjunction with Finland is a misunderstanding. The current version claims that a Bachelor of Humanities could get a Master of Humanities degree for a fee. This is incorrect understanding of the degree system prevalent in Finland in the 1970's and -80's. The system included a three year bachelor degree only in select fields. In these cases,,the degrees were humanististen tieteiden kandidaatti (Bachelor of Arts) and luonnontieteiden kandidaatti, respectively. The master's level degree was a five year degree, but it was also called kandidaatti. The degrees of filosofian kandidaatti (arts and science), kasvatustieteiden kandidaatti and oikeustieteiden kandidaatti were such degrees. The corresponding "degrees" filosofian maisteri etc. were not degrees but titles which the university was empowered to award. As they were titles, the award was accompanied by stamp duty. Thus, no degrees were awarded simply for money. The degree of kandidaatti was by itself already the necessary qualification and the title was there only for historical continuity, as some of these degrees had been previously called maisteri.
From mid-1990's onwards, this confusing system was replaced with the current one. The continued recognition of the older kandidaatti degrees is given in the Decree on the system of higher education degrees (464/1998), as amended by decree 426/2005. Therefore, I am removing the misleading sentence from the article. --MPorciusCato (talk) 19:47, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finnish honorary "maisteri" degrees in 1970's and -80's 

message: In 2002, the Hawaii Office of Consumer Protection sued Atlantic International University, alleging it failed to follow the laws that apply to unaccredited institutions, specifically, that it did not disclose "the fact that it [was, as of 2002] not fully accredited by any nationally recognized accrediting agency or association listed by the United States Secretary" which, in 2002, was a violation of Hawaii Rev. stat. paragraph 446E-2(a).
The final judgment included a "stipulated permanent injunction."  Basically, the University and the state settled.  Part of the settlement was a permanent injunction ordering the University to follow the law.
The judgment provides that parties may ask the court to terminate provisions of the order.
Does anyone know if this order is still in force? and if not, what court order or legal procedure caused it to no longer be in force?
By the way, it's not unusual for such orders (typically called "consent decrees") to remain in force decades after the behavior that led to them is ancient history.  As an example, IBM was under such an order related to anti-competitive practices long after those practices ended in the 1960s or 1970s.  As the market changed the effect of the order was to make IBM jump through hoops their competitors didn't have to jump through even after the consumer-protection/fair-play need for such orders was ancient history.  Sometime in the 1980s or 1990s IBM convinced a court to dissolve those decrees.
I would expect that after AIU acquires an accreditation that is recognized by a "nationally recognized accrediting agency or association listed by the United States Secretary" it would seek to have the order modified or dissolved entirely.
Editors who want to research it further can research "Civil No. 02-1-1733-07; State of Hawaii vs. Atlantic International University, Inc.; STIPULATED PERMANENT INJUNCTION AND FINAL JUDGMENT AGAINST DEFENDANT ATLANTIC INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY, INC."  The court order was signed by judge Sabrina S. McKenna of the First Circuit Court on October 7, 2002.  A PDF is here.  davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 02:30, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I knew the payment part was taken care of, but the rest would normally be "permanent" (hence the name, "permanent") unless a law - such as the 10-year-limit on judgments you cited - or a court modified it.  Thank you for clarifying that Hawaii law "expires" judgments after 10 years" - that is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for when I asked the question.  I have re-titled the section so page-skimmers won't make the wrong assumption. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 04:13, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atlantic International University old (2002) court order - is it still in force? ''[Update: no]'' 

message: While lack of recognized accreditation and being a "diploma mill" are not synonymous in the United States, there tends to be an overlap.
Basically, if you make a list of all U.S. institutions who are neither accredited by nor actively seeking accreditation from a recognized accreditation agency or whose programs are neither accredited by nor seeking accreditation from a recognized accreditation agency, what you have will largely fall into several groups:
* Schools that are NOT offering credentials which employers and others expect to come from an program accredited by a recognized accreditation agency in, in an institution accredited by a recognized accreditation agency. 
* Schools which ARE offering such credentials and, if doing so legally, are likely to be called "diploma mills" or similar terms by at least some consumer-protection groups (those that are doing so illegally usually either stop the illegal practices or get shut down).
As a general rule if a U.S.-based school's accrediting agency isn't found on either the list run by Council for Higher Education Accreditation (September 2015 list) or the United States Department of Education (list of lists of recognized agencies) then it should not be considered as having recognized accreditation, at least not in the sense that students should expect employers in the United States to recognize the credentials granted by that institution.  The same can be said for programs if the subject-area that the program covers is one where employers expect program accreditation.  A major exception is if the school or program is actively seeking accreditation from an agency recognized by CHEA or the US Dept. of Education and it is clear that they are likely to earn that accreditation after the application process is complete.  The latter typically applies to new institutions or new programs within an existing institution. 
By the way, the preceding paragraphs (except the first, which is just a restatement of common knowledge) are a mix of my personal opinion and original research, which is why I put this on the talk page rather than in relevant articles in the main encyclopedia.  I'm offering here as something to consider when deciding if a school of higher learning belongs in a list that distinguishes between schools having accreditation (or recognized/useful accreditation) or not and between those largely considered to be "diploma mills" and those who are not.  davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 03:18, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: *Thank you for sharing that link from CHEA International. It seems to focus mainly on European schools and it seems to be more of a planning/discussion/ideas document than a statement of existing policies and practices (it does link to some other documents that probably are practices/policy documents). It is interesting but not yet relevant to US schools.  Wikipedia editors should monitor for large-scale changes in how the US Department of Education and large, influential employers and graduate schools collectively look at domestic colleges who have international accreditation in addition to or instead of domestic accreditation.  davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 04:13, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

text: *Hello, I was reading through the conversation.As  an FYI. Institutions/Accreditation Agencies can be approved by either or and does not need to be approved by not both (US Dept of Education) for Federally Funded programs and Institutions purposes or (Council For Higher Education Accreditation) for private accrediting and institutions. The subject institution is approved by an agency, who CHEA considers to be a recognized agency based in the UK. Some confuse that if a accreditation agency is not recognized by the U.S Dept of education, it is considered unrecognized. Not true, hence the reason CHEA (a private non-governmental agency) has been put in place. Schools who are US Dept of Education recognized are federally controlled, public schools etc.  Post-Secondary private institutions who are accredited by private accrediting agencies are not federally controlled like the institution mentioned above. Please keep in mind that accreditation is Voluntary and when aquiring accreditation, institutions have the right to choose, National, International or Regional accreditation, as long as the agency is recognized. The institutions in question who have accreditation through recognized  accrediting agencies (National, Regional and International) should not be included in this article. US Dept of Ed does not apply. I don't think the US should be inferior to any other country if it's a recognized accrediting agency. The subject is "accreditation" and whether some of the institution's mentioned in this article should be removed. US Dept of Ed should not be considered in this matter as we have a lot if international students who transferred from universities in other countries to US institutions. Reevaluate this article and remove institutions mentioned who  have legit accreditation from a National, International or Regional recognized agency US or Non-US, but recognized accrediting agencies. See this 12.197.168.254 (talk) 14:16, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

text: * Accreditation (US or Non US) does not guarantee the another institution will except transfer credits. It does not matter if you have a degree from a National, Regional or Internationally accredited, institutions have their own standards and policies. This goes for employers as well. See this for information 74.95.73.201 (talk) 02:00, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accreditation for US-based institutions 

message: There is a discussion at User talk:EdJohnston#Continued from WP:AN/EW#User:Davidwr reported by IP editor (Result: Semi) which may be of interest to those following this article's talk page.  davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 10:35, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion that may be of interest 

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replies: text: Failed because it is a search portal. Tgeorgescu (talk) 02:13, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello! You are invited to participate in Talk:Warren National University#RfC: Should we say that Warren National University was a diploma mill?  --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 20:23, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC: Should we say that Warren National University was a diploma mill? 

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