Talk:Kingdom of Loathing/Archive 1

message: I just added the link to Underwood.  Now everyone knows how violent this game is and what it drives people to do.128.208.36.39 22:02, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed this in its entirety. There is a one line mention in this article saying that he played the game, and certainly NOTHING indicating, even remotely intimating, that it had anything to do with his actions. --InShaneee 22:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

text: First of all, I'm fairly certain the 6 people that saw that story will forget it pretty quickly. Secondly, if anyone puts it back (barring any objections from established users), I will just revert it again. --InShaneee 23:21, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: I knew this would happen!

message: I am a KoL player, and I have tagged this page as confusing. For someone unfamiliar with KoL, this page does not give an informative introduction to KoL, what it is about, and why it is awesome. The text just leapts to specifics about ascension, white Wednesday, black Sunday and even mentions Hangk's already in the first paragraph of the History section. I think this page needs re-writing to be more useful to the uninitiated, but I think there should be a discussion first. (Raxolotl 21:02, 10 March 2006 ((UTC))
:I'd be willing to write a paragraph or two about it, I'll volunteer. Give me some time to write something up. --'Ivan 13:35, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, you know what? There are 3 cases of supposed vandalism by the user Jinkso later in the same day you put your comment here. They are here, here and here. I have restored the content. --'Ivan 13:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing / Needs cleanup 

message: Update: This time, I did edit the page.  Here are my changes: (1) Removed the word "unfounded," because the controversy was centered on specific actions that the involved parties have admitted to doing.  (2) The station was handed to me and Fusi from Sev, yes.  We had "control" of it for all of 48 hours or so, but gave it to those who had already been running things.  (3) "Jick and Skullhead supported this new station," is an inaccurate statement, as there was not yet a new station.  There was no fear of a lack of a station for the "future of their project."  There was just Radio KoL with an ownership change.  Haplo3k 14:14, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radio KoL / WKOL 

message: What with the Penguin Mafia all but a memory and the related meatsinks (Council donations, Uncle P's, etc) gone or reduced in scope, should the paragraph that discusses the exploits of Black Sunday be changed to reflect that the economy's in a bit better health now? Or is it still basically under assumption that there's still more work to be done, billionaires aside? CaptainSpam 17:42, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economy health 

message: I believe Radio Kol is the "official unofficial radio station of KoL".  Jick didn't want to be formally affiliated with Radio KoL, for fear of RIAA lawsuits.  If such a lawsuit occurred, Asymmetric Publications would be free from any wrongdoing (or so they could argue).  Therefore, the article should read that Radio KoL is an unofficial radio station.  Metzgermeister 02:57, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Radio KoL was merged here recently. Just noting it. Hedley 22:03, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Radio KoL]]

message: That section was just repeats of what is said on the Radio KoL website. We want our information here to be concise, and not to replace our official sites, so I don't think it's necessary. Haplo3k 19:20, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Personalities

message: I removed the link to the History of Loathing as it appeared on W23's site. All of that has since been rolled into KoL Coldfront, which itself is already listed. I thought it'd be a bit redundant to link in to subsections of Coldfront, so I removed the History link entirely. CaptainSpam 04:11, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of Loathing 

message: A long time ago, the Meat helmet was deleted, and this article was mentioned in the VfD vote casting field. Should we make a redirect for Kingdom of Loathing out of "Meat helmet"? --SuperDude 02:27, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meat helmet 

message: Doesn't that guy on the logo have a nickname?  I think he does.  Does anyone know it?  If so, we should probably put that with the picture caption.
Tongo Zitheroo Ketchill  (Better known as The Phantom Trogdor to all you KoLers.)
:He's known as the Sword and Martini Guy, as far as I know. Southwest 02:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Logo dude

message: Perhaps something should be added mentioning the accidental deletion of the database by Jick on Oct 25th and its impact on the game. Namely the reversion of several statistics and certain inventory to values backed up on Sept 6. 
-KSlayer 02:45, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  mini-apocalypse 

message: Try to keep coments on talk pages, .. not useless. Crap like this can go in your edit summery or just.. not said. Thanks Fresheneesz 06:17, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Aargh! The ghost of English language! In fact you don't have to bring on Talk page every little typo you fixed. You can also mark your edits as minor for such cases, because no significant change was made. Grue 19:00, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Crap

message: Specializes, not Specialises.
:Aargh! The ghost of English language! In fact you don't have to bring on Talk page every little typo you fixed. You can also mark your edits as minor for such cases, because no significant change was made. Grue 19:00, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Changed Spelling

message: It's likely 'An adventurer is you' is a reference to the appearence of 'A winner is you!' in the animutation Irrational Exuberence rather than a direct reference to the game. Is there any quote offering evidence either way? Hrimfaxi 07:17, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "A winner is you"

message: Currently a user called Kiathe44 is adding a sort of quest "guide" - without an spoiler warning - to this article. Although I think it's good to describe some of the quests in the article, Wikipedia isn't the place for publishing walkthroughs, so I removed the content. mensch 20:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quest guide 

message: Sorry for forgeting to put spoiler warning I remade it with that warning and I put the main source in that section in addition to the list at the end. BTW this is my new poster, sorry for the confusion i'm new and mabye i miss understood but I didn't see anything agaisn't guides on the what is not Wiki page. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Ok it got deleted again by someone else so i'm gunna assume I'm wrong I'll make sure not to make another guide again.
--ScottGarverick 01:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sorry

message: the front page of KoL has been taken over, Does anyone know how to fix this?
24.237.198.91 01:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It wasn't taken over, it's just an April Fools joke... There are some other nice things going on today, too, like SPF and the item of the month. Sasha Slutsker 02:05, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Takeover

message: Guys there is a Aol kids station called Radio Kol. Look it up and put a mention in your article —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rvsrvs (talk • contribs) 
:Is it really that important? --'Ivan 12:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't think so, especially since one is a broadcast station, and the other a podcast. Unless Radio Kol gets its own article, this shouldn't be an issue. --InShaneee 18:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radio Kol 

message: "The origin of these characters, whether drawn by hand or taken from some computer program, is unknown."
If this is referring to the artwork, it's hand-drawn by Jick, and then scanned and edited as necessary in Paintshop Pro.
Not sure how to best integrate this info into the article, but if someone wants to do so, feel free.
--Akranzel 20:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any chance you've got a reference link for that? --InShaneee 03:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The artwork

message: It's getting rather long. --'Ivan 11:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say so. Things have gotten a little messy here, but I'd say it's probably safe to archive any threads with no posts in 2006. --InShaneee 16:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I don't really have enough experience to-- in other words I don't know how. Someone else? ^_^;; --'Ivan 17:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archiving the Talk page- yay or nay? 

message: I've taken the liberty of changing all mentions of "softcore ascension" into "normal ascension." That's the official term seen at the Ascension FAQ.  Quentin mcalmott 17:34, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "softcore" vs. "normal"

message: I think it would be better if the logo image was of the left sword guy. That's the one they use on shirt designs and Jick's avatar, etc. --80.195.190.235
:Does it...really...matter? --'Ivan 03:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: if you think it doesn't matter, the change doesn't affect you. If you think the change matters, go ahead and change it; no one's against it (that has spoke up, and honestly, I don't think it's very contentious). Quentin mcalmott 23:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. --Gika 00:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logo 

message: I see that the Penguin Mafia has been left out of the History section and I think it would be nice if it was added. 
:::Unsigned comment by IP 68.184.207.173  16:29, August 9, 2006.  (added by Jazzdude00021)
 That would be nice... I'm too lazy to see if someone else has already done it.  :)
Frodo 11011 08:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Penguin Mafia 

message: I've been adding references as I work on the History section. However, the best sources of information I can find on these topics are the articles the KOL wiki ( http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/ ). Are these OK as source references? And anyone know of better ones? Cornprone 05:36, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: I've added a sentence or two about KoL Chess, and Hoddan's online version.  If someone knows some background information on the chess game (who created the new ruleset, when, etc.) please add it.  The section isn't complete as I left it, and I'd like it more robust.  Also, if you can think of a better word than personas, (I was thinking in terms of the Legends), please, swap it out.
:I've removed the reference. It is a non-notable fangame. --InShaneee 21:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry then
KoL chess?  Sounds cool.  I wish I had seen the info. Frodo 11011 08:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  KoL Chess 

message: We really dont need this, it would have to include all other classes to have a significance. --Nanajoth 15:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually not required for the other five classes.  I don't see how often Turtle Tamer, Pastamancer, Sauceror, Disco Bandit, or Accordion Thief appear in popular culture; Seal Clubber, however, does have a tenuous hold on the language.  Not quite sure it should be an automatic redirect to THIS article, tho--someone putting in a request for seal clubbers could be looking for the actual hunting, rather than the character class.  Perhaps the redirect should go to hunting, and a note in that article should read along the lines 'For the Kingdom of Loathing character class, see ... ' IL-Kuma 06:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Indeed. It's standard practice to put 'otheruses' templates at the top of articles. --InShaneee 22:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hrm, I guess it's ok then. It just seems odd to me to have that up on the top of the article for people who don't come here through a "seal clubber" link. Quentin mcalmott 02:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Seal Clubber]] redirect

message: Is it justifiable to have information on Crimboween or even just Crimbo in general? Or would that not even be funny? There is information on the Comet, but I guess that would impact (pun not intended until just now) everybody who plays, having altered mechanics relying on moon phases. Vitriol 20:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It really seems outside of the scope of an encyclopedia. ---J.S  (T/C) 21:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. This is just one event. --InShaneee 22:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crimboween 

message: The word "plexiglass" in the context of the article should be in quotes, and it should not be linked. It's being used in an specific in-universe context that has nothing to do with the real world.  Since it's an unusual usage for the word "plexiglass" it is appropriate to use quotes to distinguish it. ---J.S  (T/C) 23:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. The items are called plexiglass in-game. Should we also call the items "bow"legged pants, "cardboard" wakizashi, or cheshire "bitten", if they were in this article? I also don't see how it's being used in a context that has nothing to do with the real world, just making it into clothing. Quentin mcalmott 01:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Upon further research, it seems that "plexiglass" is indeed a widely-used word in the real world and as such does not need quotes around it.  --Cornprone 03:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On even more research, Wikipedia redirects "plexiglass" to the page it is now linked to. Try it yourself. If it is a word to Wikipedia, then it is a word to me. Even so, plexiglass, the same type used in-game, is the same type used in the real world. Imagine that! It is not being used in an unusual way, so it doesn't need quotes. So, context and usage both sway in favor of linking and no quotes. SnufStyle420 20:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

text: It doesn't matter what is in the game or not. You cannot use the word (or non-word) "plexiglass". It has no meaning and it is illegal. It is a trademark violation and against wikipedia copyright policy.Tstrobaugh 15:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

text: As to comments above, that "plexiglass" is a word because it has a redirect in wikepedia, it has a redirect precisely because it is not a word and it is assumed to be a mistaken entry on the users part. Another one, that it is used in the game also doesn't matter, unless there is a section explaining why the game uses it incorrectly and illegally. I worked for Rohm and Hass in trademark protection. Also, metaphysically, there are not "real worlds" and I suppose "unreal worlds" there is only one world.Tstrobaugh 15:55, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I, for one, question whether you should be making such controversial changes without consensus (and especially marking them minor) when you are so close to the subject (the company Rohm and Haas makes plexiglas). And yes, there are two separate "worlds", even if you argue over the semantics of calling them such. In the world of the game, that's what the items are called. No matter if "plexiglass" is a word or not in the non-KoL world, it is in KoL, in the same way that "Klingon" was not a word (to my knowledge) until Star Trek made it so. I've listed this at Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems. Quentin mcalmott 06:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The game uses the term "plexiglass".  The game does not use the term "acrylic glass". The article is using the item an an example of something in the game. Calling it acrylic glass would be blatantly incorrect and misleading.  The game item has nothing to do with the real world "acrylic glass."  If you have a concern with trademark infringement, I sugust you contact the people at KOL.  However, wikipedia is only reporting on the game's usage of the term. ---J.S  (T/C) 23:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  plexiglass 

message: "Hovering Sombrero" is a They Might Be Giants song - anybody know whether KoL got the name from TMBG, or vice versa? Is this worthy of note in this article? Applejuicefool 20:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's definitely a reference to TMBG, like many other things in the game. Probably not worth mentioning here though. Cornprone 12:47, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Mink Car|Hovering Sombrero]] 

message: I was wondering about this: is it malware of any kind?  Keylogger, trojan, etc?  —My name is too long 19:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  KoLmafia 

message: I added to the Community page near the bottom saying how it was also forbidden to say something about Coldfront or anyother spolier site outside of KoL. Should it stay there or does the saying about being forbidden simply cover it? GloomySunday 01:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coldfront In Chat 

message: This section has been removed twice now (I did it the first time, someone else did it the second time).  I still think this isn't that notable, but given that at least one other person feels differently, what do others think?  Here's what I removed.
;"The Scammer Era"    
:In the year 2005, there were many scammers that stole meat from other characters. The greatedt of these scammers was "WheresWaldo," who scammed 34 million meat from unsuspecting users. He did it in a simple method, having Hell Ramen in his store at the mall and showing it at a very low price, and when people would see that price they would quickly try and buy it, and find that the price had been switched to over 1 million meat. Jick tried making it difficult for these scams but they persisted. Finally, WheresWaldo bought a golden Mr. Accessory and decided to quit. The citizens were troubled and angered over his reign of terror.
I removed it once. Price switching is a very common scammer tactic. Also, 34 million meat isn't actually that much. Searching the KoL wiki for "whereswaldo" shows only two results, neither of which relate to this scammer. Searching for "waldo scam" (by searching for "all terms", not "any or use query as entered") brings up no results. Scamming is a constant part of KoL, and I don't think 2005 was that much worse to be named as a particular era. Quentin mcalmott 01:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoops, I forgot to sign the original posting...that was me.  :P  WLGades 01:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just removed it again, fwiw. It was added by User:Fortyniners9999 with a comment of "very important." Quentin mcalmott 06:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scammer Era 

message: I found this:Users get 40 "adventures" per day. The number of adventures can be increased by consuming food and booze, but only until the player becomes too full or drunk to consume more.
 (the previous entry)
A bit more encyclopedic than this:
Users get 40 "adventures" per day. The number of adventures can be increased by a few ways. Consuming food and booze will give the player between 1 and 29 additional adventures, depending on the type, until the player becomes too full or drunk to consume more. The skills "Stomach of Steel" and "Liver of Steel" allow the player to consume more food and booze before being too full or drunk. Various campground and clan items also give extra adventures. (the current entry)
I'd undo it,  but I'm a newb to Wikipedia, so I wanted to ask you Wikipedians, first.--Munkel (talk) 12:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I think it's too much now too. The old way was a nice overview; the new edit goes into too many details. Quentin mcalmott 21:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I would definitely agree. Id the Mildly Confused 03:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I removed that entire part of that paragraph, as it was completely redundant with the description of adventures, food and booze that exists in the "Gameplay and Features" section. --Cornprone 03:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: To much info on food and booze?

message: What about today.  Its St. Sneaky Pete's Day.   Something to add to the holiday section.Tailsfan2 12:15, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  St. Sneaky Pete's Day

message: Perhaps it might be worth mentioning that liking RuneScape is apparently a bannable offense. A friend of mine simple MENTIONED (note: did not advertise or provide links or anything, just mentioned) that she liked the game and she was banned after being mocked by mods.
If there is a lapse in community, especially a bigotry that could ruin KoL for a player, perhaps it should be mentioned.67.141.136.174 04:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but your personal grudges won't be mentioned. ---J.S  (T/C/WRE) 13:44, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fail to see how an experience that was not mine is therefore personal. I'm sorry you don't care about keeping future players from being driven off. Sorry I'm not elitist.71.29.21.220 19:27, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about this: Personal experiences in general.  I couldn't give a rats-ass about past/current/future players - my concern here is that this article maintains the standards that all articles are expected to uphold. See WP:V and WP:ATT for the guideing policies in this case. ---J.S  (T/C/WRE) 22:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Community ... unless 

message: This may be a shot in the dark, but in playing the game for just one day, I noticed two things that made me think of the book series Death Gate Cycle. First, the Genre of Radio KoL 64 is "Haplo's Ultimate Music Party". Haplo is the name of the main character in the DGC. Also, you can enhance your character by getting him tattoos, which is (in a way) a main part of the story in DGC. If anyone else has read DGC and played KoL for a while, could you verify anymore similarities. Hypernova2121 03:54, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Haplo is a notable player, and a DJ, so her name may be a reference to this Death Gate Cycle, but I know for a fact that the tattoos are not.--Therum 00:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The game has references all over the place to random stuff from pop culture, check out The KoL Wiki. The particular tattoo you choose to display doesn't enhance or detract from your character though, it merely shows you had the entirety of one outfit for long enough to talk to the artist, or, in the case of the martini tattoo, had a lot of martinis. --Sothicus 06:27, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Death Gate Cycle References

message: Is anyone going to mention the soon to be updated site, including the new monsters, level requirements, etc??? 121.221.168.28 08:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The data given by the development team isn't specific enough to be added. --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 12:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It also sounds like something for coldfront more then here.  We can only give a general overview of the game within the context of how it touches the real world. ---J.S  (T/C/WRE) 17:21, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, now that plenty more is known, there can be additions. The Casual Ascension type was added, so I added the Bad Moon Ascension type. I had never made or edited an article before, so I didn't know what to cite, what to link, etc. Doctor it up, change it, do whatever you want, except removing it, because it does belong here if Casual does. 67.87.96.31 22:34, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NS13? 

message: Is it worth adding a section about Pink Thursday? (I think that is what it is called) It is another event in the kingdom
Mrjingjing 12:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Compared to Black Sunday or White Wednesday, it hasn't really had an effect on the game. It's really interesting to read about, but it's more a subject for a site about KoL's history, like something on coldfront. Quentin mcalmott 23:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pink Thursday 

message: Is it really necessary to mention in anything more than a passing note that Bad Moon is a zodiac sign, especially when it's mentioned in much more detail less than half a page up? --Sothicus 06:36, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is true, but not just a passing note. It needs shortening, but still needs some information. Do what you can, if you wish. 67.87.96.67 19:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done and done. --Sothicus 08:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bad Moon mentioned repeatedly

message: isn't needed when any person who is knowledgeable of the subject would not disagree or doubt it, and any other person can't find a reason to disbelieve it. For example, most experienced players know that "Player versus player (PvP) combat is voluntary, and only those who have broken their "Magical Mystical Hippy Stone" can attack or be attacked by other players." Those that don't have no reason to doubt it.
I've removed many of the tags and added a few of my own. --68.161.152.145 05:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, I went a little overboard trying to replace the refimprove tag because a persistent vandal kept removing it. Thanks for the oversight :) --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 08:56, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kingdom_of_Loathing&oldid=159492755 Overzealous with "Citation Needed"] 

message: Jick said he suspended the Tuesday updates on his radio show on Nov 26, 2007. Could someone fill in the citation with a link to the recording?Oobyduby 16:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tuesday Updates

message: I'm trying to bring this article to FA status, any suggestions? Cerebellum (talk) 17:15, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Trying to FA

message: There's something fishy going on here. Has anyone looked at the "Mr. Accesory Conspiracy" section? It says (using exclamation marks a plenty) that the creater of the game is "lazy" and that you should not buy these items. Also, there are many other parts of the article that are horribly biased, one of which actually uses the word "crappy." I would fix it myself, but I am short on time and not very good at editing. --The F50 Man (talk) 03:28, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just run of the mill vandalism recently added. As for the rest of the article that's another matter. --24.19.53.36 (talk) 03:42, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bias to the point of vandalism

message: My recent edit made me wonder, why do they not have articles?  They are the co-creators of an MMORPG that hundreds of thousands of people play, or have played.  Surely that is notable, in and of itself.  Both of them have been interviewed several times, and they do things other than this, since they are members of Asymetric Publications, which already has its own article.  What are your thoughts on this? Mynameisnotpj (talk) 19:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jick and Mr. Skullhead 

message: New (giant) update in KoL includes a massive clan dungeon. There is limited player-to-player contact, which makes this the first time you can play "with" someone else. This should probably be noted, as this makes KoL multiplayer. 204.26.127.65 (talk) 04:24, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hobopolis 

message: Ur kiddin me right? --72.138.216.89 (talk) 22:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain, or your post may be removed. NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 00:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

text: It's real. www.kingdomofloathing.com. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 15:46, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lol 

message: I believe that this article has (quite) a bit too much information about gameplay. Compare with articles about other internet games, and you'll find that this article is too long. For example, do we need to include everything about the major events? CHL (aka yse) (talk) 09:30, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not. I'd say cut the Comet, Holiday Events, Hobopolis, and maybe the Grey Plague, as they delve too much into the game. The rest seem significant enough. Ask Jick what he thinks the most significant history events are? NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 02:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I think that Black Sunday, White wednesday, Comet, Holiday Events and the Grey Plague, they're interesting but I don't think that they should be explained here as there not really that important in the long run. Hobopolis, NS13 and Ascension should all be left though as they all had a major and LASTING effect on the game, the others didn't really. --Danie Tei (talk) 14:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Black Sunday and White Wednesday had a lasting effect on the game for several months at the very least. Those should be included. I'm going to cut a few; see what you think.the Comet. What else would you cut? NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 19:38, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I cut the gray plague, but I do think the rollout of clan dungeons deserves at least a mention in the history. I still think white wednesday needs to be cut as while it was important when it happened only one of the rifts remain so I dont think it had enough of a lasting effect. I think Black Sunday should be at least cut down and some of it moved to gameplay as both the raffle house and frequent meatsinks are used, but Black Sunday wasn't an offical event so I don't think it should be mentioned  Danie Tei (talk) 03:18, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Let me start out by saying I'm an inclusionist. Ask yourself this: were the sections you cut out really making the article too long or confusing? I feel they provided an interesting insight into the nature of the game. Oh, and White Wednesday was clearly one of the most significant events in the history of the game, even if it wasn't purposefully-created content. Its historical importance is that Asymmetric's response to the incident reveals a lot about the way the company runs the game. The same could be said of Black Sunday's importance. --Cornprone (talk) 09:32, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Yeah I guess I was being a bit extreme with all of the cuts. I still think that the grey plague should be cut as it didn't wasn't anything but a bit of episodic content and therefore wasn't that important. You have convinced about Black sunday and White Wednesday though, because they were content releases to fix specific in-game issues they actually are important to the development of the game, so I agree they should stay.Danie Tei (talk) 01:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Plague certainly doesn't harm anything by staying. And it was certainly a bit of episodic content that was a wide-ranging event that spanned for a month or so. And if I'm not wrong, it was indeed related to The Great Time Catastrophe? NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 03:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Interestingly, the review that was just added  mentions the Grey Plague and then links to this very article's History section, saying that it's "a great way to explain the unusual way that Kingdom of Loathing fits the MMO concept without fitting the template at all." So I guess like me, the author of that review found that section informative. Just sayin'. Oh, and that review was a nice find. I hadn't seen it before. --Cornprone (talk) 15:33, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Seeing as the general consensus seems to be that the grey plague should stay I added it back into the article. Danie Tei (talk) 23:44, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

text: I like the examples of PvP because they really help explain the unusual nature of the PvP system. Ascension reward materials and epic hats can go, though. I guess Mr. Eh is also too trivial, though it does demonstrate the nature of the game's humor. Now as to verifiability and citations... I understand the need for reliable sources on contentious information. However, there's little dispute over the basic facts of game mechanics. Wikipedia:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence states the importance of inline citations on "quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged." To me, this implies that citations are not as important for obvious information whose factuality is not going to be challenged. If you look at Wikipedia:Good articles about other video games, they often use the game itself, the game manual or an official strategy guide as a citation for basic information on gameplay. Apparently, primary sources suffice for describing gameplay, even in good articles. I liken this to the way primary sources are used for the basic plot description in an article about a novel. Well, that's my opinion; your mileage may vary. --Cornprone (talk) 10:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say keep the Mr Eh? but touch on it more than go into a full on description of everything about it. Just mention that it exists and maybe the phrase it gives on a persons profile page. Call me ishmail (talk) 18:29, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll defer to your knowledge on sources so we probably don't need to worry to much about adding sources. I think we might be able to take down the primrary sources tag. But I still think that the whole article contains way more trivial information than necessary. Looking at FA-Class video game articles the length of gameplay descriptions in those articles is less than half of the length of the one in this article.Danie Tei (talk) 22:55, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Touch upon the Mr. Eh, cut the rest. Other VG FAs, unfortunately, generally have a lot more coverage that KoL does; I don't think we could ever get this to a FA status. NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 22:59, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that this will probably never get to FA I was just trying to make a point.Danie Tei (talk) 00:15, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much information 

message: Here are all the reviews about KoL I've managed to find, If anyone could tell me which can be used as reliable sources:
*http://www.sniderware.com/blog/2004/10/kingdom-of-loathing-review.html
*http://www.escmag.com/v5/reviews/review.cfm?rv=415
*http://www.pibweb.com/review/kol.html
*http://dbs.homeport.org/archives/000238.html
*http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_161/5112-Stumbling-Into-the-Kingdom-of-Loathing
*http://www.netjak.com/review.php/1362
*http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=132293
If anyone finds any other reviews please add links, we need to get a reception section.--Danie Tei (talk) 16:21, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reviews 

message: Does anyone else think that there are enough third-party sources to take down the primrary sources tag? Danie Tei (talk) 13:43, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say so. I mean there could always be more but as far as the distribution goes, it looks like plenty in all the sections. Call me ishmail (talk) 14:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Template:Primarysources says it's to be used on an article or section which "inappropriately relies solely on primary sources." The article has multiple third party sources, so it clearly doesn't rely solely on primary sources. The tag should be removed. --Cornprone (talk) 01:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed it. Danie Tei (talk) 05:21, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enough sources?