Wikipedia talk:Main Page/Temp5

message: I wrapped this section in tables. Mav was right, it was ugly. It's a bit longer now, and it clutters the source with even more HTML, but IMHO it looks better. For some reason, adding those tables also made a space appear at the bottom of the "New?" box, between the /div and the /td tag. I have absolutely no idea why, since I can't see anything in the wiki source or the generated HTML that would cause that. I think this is a bug with Mozilla, since it's not there in Konqueror. -- Merphant 22:30, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like the "Wikipedia In Other Languages" being in two columns like that. It has too much space to the right of it. The way it was before, the bottom of the grey box aligned with the bottom of the purple box. Now the grey one extends too far. I don't see any difference in the space under the "new?" box using IE6. Angela 23:26, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're right, it was a bit long. Now it's in 3 columns. It still passes the purple box a little, but with the current structure it's not going to line up perfectly anyway. I like the columns because it's impossible to pick out any links with the letters so small like that. We could change the "browse" box so that it reaches to the bottom, but that would just put a bunch of empty purple space under  the "other categories". -- Merphant 23:51, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Merphant, that's much better. I made the grey box 100% and the columns 33% so it would stretch out to prevent the extra space on the right on a 1024 screen, but will squish back in for smaller screens. Angela 23:53, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other languages / Sister projects secion 

message: I put the dynamic content in a colored box. I'm not too crazy about the color, but  I think it adds some more structure to the page. Now it's even closer to the the first revision of /Temp4. Funny that it took so long to get here...
Anyway, I think this might resolve some issues people have with the page being too cluttered; IMHO it's way less cluttered than the current main page. And there's still about 1 em of white space below the "new" box on Mozilla. What is that??
Oh, and I also removed temp4's talk form this page; the first sentence on this talk page links to it if anyone wants to read it. This talk page is getting big enough anyway. -- Merphant 09:07, 6 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colored box 

message: I find the table heading "New?" confusing, because it first and foremost meant "New stuff here [in Wikipedia]?". We could plainly say "Are you new here?". If that's too long, just "You new?" :-} --Menchi 23:10, Aug 7, 2003 (UTC)
::Or "New Users" Angela 23:25, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: "New to Wikipedia?". I don't find it very confusing Matthewmayer 23:43, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text:  Changed it to "New to Wikipedia?" -- Merphant 23:48, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  New? 

message: I think it looks alright, but for me (Netscape 7), the "Browse Wikipedia" section extends further down than the "Wikipedia in Other Languages" section. I don't know exactly how far - it's about two lengths of the mouse arrow, if that helps. It works in IE, but I rarely ever use IE, so I'll have to withhold my vote for now:) Adam Bishop 22:48, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balance of the sides 

message: Here are the objections from the vote page. Please leave ideas for dealing with these below.
#Too stuffed and confusing.
#Too much detail.
#Should have a search box visible in the page not above it.
#Uses tables for layout.
=== Stuffed and confusing ===
IMO it is less stuffed and confuing than the current main page. That doesn't mean it can't get better, though. Perhaps we could revive Main Page/Temp4?? -- Merphant 23:45, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Stuffed... perhaps we just need more padding between the "table" cells? Martin
=== Too much detail ===
Does this mean the 'featured articles' part? I think that's the best part if it; it puts the links in context. -- Merphant 23:45, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

text: Thanks Merphant. Angela 06:41, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Dealing with objections

message: Does this mean the 'featured articles' part? I think that's the best part if it; it puts the links in context. -- Merphant 23:45, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much detail 

message: Is this possible with the current software? This would require Javascript and forms. The wiki parser won't pass those html tags. -- Merphant 23:45, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Search box in the page 

message: I have replaced the unnecessary tables with divs. I left the tables that clean up the 'other languages' and 'browse' sections, since I think tables are best suited for that...
Problems with this:
# The dynamic content is in the middle of the source now. This is hard to edit.
# The purple and gray boxes don't line up.
I am happy to report, however, that my annoying white space in Mozilla is gone :) Maybe someone with more CSS skills can fix the other problems. -- Merphant 23:37, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Merphant. Angela 06:41, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tables 

message: The 2 halves have split off in IE 5. It didn't a few minutes ago. --Menchi 23:54, Aug 7, 2003 (UTC)
: Probably a result of replacing the tables with divs. The tables were there for a reason: compatibility. Hopefully someone will come along who can fix the problem  using CSS. I'll work on it, but I don't have IE... -- Merphant 23:58, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bugs 

message: I take it the idea is to change this on a weekly basis or so? Sort of like the tips you get when you start some applications? Martin
: I hope so. Or it becomes something of a nag on what we've known for 2 years. "Dija? Dija???" --~~
: On a second thought, that section is probably just inappropriately named. "Login->better!" should probably stay there for at least several weeks, for we always have newcomers. --Menchi 01:10, Aug 9, 2003 (UTC)
:: I dunno - sites are always trying to beg people to register an account - I think it's rather refreshing that, by and large, we don't. You only really need an account if you're something of a power user. Martin
::: True. Being so beggy doesn't look attractive. --Menchi 01:32, Aug 9, 2003 (UTC) 
:Currently the majority seems to be against this layout (never start a vote before you have tried to accommodate people's concerns!), so the discussion may be moot, but I intended the section to be replaced regularly, in tip of the day fashion. Past tips could be archived on a special page.—Eloquence 01:30, Aug 9, 2003 (UTC)
:: I like this idea. Martin
: Since we have a limited amount of did-you-know tips we can offer to newbies/Anons, maybe we can use a circulating automated thing, where if you press refresh/reload on your broswer, you get a different tip. --Menchi 01:32, Aug 9, 2003 (UTC)
:: Limited amount? Ha! Each new page in the Wikipedia: namespace that is created is a new tip of the day. Each completed mailing list discussion can be turned into a tip of the day. Each new feature can become a tip of the day. Every time you see something on Wikipedia and scratch your head and think "Huh! I didn't know it works like this", you have a tip of the day waiting to be written. We could probably have a tip every hour and still not run out of helpful advice anytime soon.—Eloquence 02:29, Aug 9, 2003 (UTC)
:::We could have a page like Wikipedia:Tip of the day with a long list of tips and have it connected with software to a tag like <tips /> that, when put on a page, displays a random tip from the Wikipedia:Tip of the day page. Even if there were 1000 tips, they would still all be displayed randomly, and we wouldn't have to change it every hour. This might be difficult to impliment, though. LDan 00:07, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did you know...? 

message: Part of the problem with the front page is that we are trying to do too many things on it. Why not use it as a more graphically intensive disambigulation page? In other words, it doesn't try to cram in everything but should contain links which a new user can follow explaining what wiki is and how it works. For example; 
* What is wikipedia? - a page telling the history of wiki, when it was founded, how many users it has had, how many articles it has, how the community works, the wiki-list, etc
* Using wikipedia - how to find things, how to edit, use of usernics, links to naming conventions, an explanation of NPOV, what is OK and not OK on wiki.
* So you want to start? - a graphic-orientated practical example of how a text is edited, with a sandbox which could be used by a first time user.
* Category index - containing much of the stuff crammed onto the front page now. 
The front page should contain 
* a strong corporate identity through use of font, layout, colour scheme and logo;
* links to a small number of sample articles and categories; 
* the current top list of current events, deaths, anniversaries with more explanation;
* links to the above pages or whatever number is suggested, answering the questions What is?, Where is? How do I? All too many users come onto wiki not knowing much about it or how to use it. That is their right, but if you do want to find out factual basics, where do you go right now to find them out? I'm still finding out about procedural pages (eg, on voting) that I never knew about, and I have been here 10 months! Most of the information I know I stumbled on or learned through mistakes or finding a link to something I never knew anything about. A more streamlined set of sources linked to one page (the main one), rather than found through a link to a link to a link etc.,  would make it easier for everyone.  FearÉIREANN 03:29, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: I have proposed a similar but not-so-detail idea on #Add a secondary cover page.  So Wikipedia becomes a blend of encyclopedia and magazine. Interesting. But it is then a completely new design (killer of Temp5?). ^_^ wshun 03:40, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Main page as disambigulation