Wikipedia talk:Hinduism-related topics notice board/Archive 1

message: I think we have too many pages on Hinduism, while even the main ones (Hindu, Hinduism, Vedas, etc.) need improvement. I wish they were more presentable, with less focus on denominatory differences. Aupmanyav 06:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many pages - too much vandalism 

message: This article requires massive expansion. deeptrivia (talk) 21:34, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Kurukshetra war]]

message: here's the proposal: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals/2006/June#.7B.7BHindu-text-stub.7D.7D_and_.7B.7BHindu-temple-stubs.7D.7D
Please vote!--Dangerous-Boy 18:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  more Hinduism stubs 

message: Fix up the Hinduism article and the Hindu article.  Any more?--D-Boy 22:15, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  goals 

message: Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Regional notice boards#A uniform naming scheme. Zocky | picture popups 00:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standard naming scheme 

message: Shalya a character from mahabharata was from uttara madra aka punjab so he can be added to the list of punjabis!
:Uttara Madra was probably in trans-Oxiana. Of course, the Madras later settled in Punjab just as Kauravas settled lower down in Haryana. Aupmanyav 15:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  SHALYA 

message: Just a little concerned about the wording on the specific threats section on teh article.  Is it appropriate?  A pak user was changing it around.--D-Boy 09:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hindu Unity]] 

message: Hindusim section needs NPOV: "The section is not factual. Of all the hindu population less that ten percent are vegetarians. Most of hindus are meat-eaters which includes beef. To represent that most hindus are vegetarians is to use wiki for meaningless propaganda. I really want to have a serious debate about this section before the section can be given a facelift. As a fellow-hindu, I feel that my religion is being hijacked by a few extreme elements. --C9"
:I value vegetarianism but am a non-vegetarian (that means you can take me to be neutral in this respect). Whatever anyone says about it is that person's personal opinion. There has never been a census as far as I know. How did you get your ten percent? Aupmanyav 15:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would have joined the debate, but that page has too much of non-Hindu information. That sort of dissuades me. Aupmanyav 15:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A hindu should not eat beaf, there are other options. Many brahmins are not required by their traditions to abstain from non-vegetarian food. Kashmiri brahmins are one such group. But we certainly do not advocate such a person be tied to a stake and be burnt. Aupmanyav 09:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vegetarianism and religion 

message: Referring to Jyotirlingas (aka Dwadasa jyotirlinga), the divine light wherein Siva (one of the Hindu trinity) manifested Himself, the list can be more orderly. Point about Somnath, the first jyotirlinga is that the shrine is associated with Moon (Som) and the original shrine was plundered a dozen times by Muslim invaders like Mohammed Ghaznavi. A landmark there is that a ray from that point reaches the South Pole without touchng any landmass.
Okay: Back to the topic. The order should be
Somnath (Saurashtra), Mallikarjuna (Srisailam,) Mahakaal (Ujjain) Omakara (Mamalasewaram, island in the Narmada near Indore in MP), Vaijnath (Purli), Bheemasankaram (Dhakinya), Rameswaram (Setubandhu, southern tip of India), Nagesh (Daruka-van), Viswanath (Varanasi aka Kashi and Benaras) Tryambaka (Gautami banks, Kedranath (Himalayaa) Sivalaya).
The Siva abode of Pasupatinath in Nepal is adored along with the Jyotirlingas.
My main concern is it is better to list the above shrines in this order, complying with a hymn to this effect. ukstranger  Sunday, July 30, 2006; 3:51 pm
:Would you kindly explain the strange behaviour of the ray which reaches from Somnath to South Pole without touching any landmass!! There are a trillion points on Indian coast where a direct line from South Pole would not cross any landmass. Somnath is about the one who is master of the moon, and not the moon itself. Yes, I agree, the best order is as given in the verse 'Saurashtre Somanathaya..' which has always been used by hindu to remember them. All jyotirlingas have the same importance. Aupmanyav 15:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jyotirlinga list

message: when you read the article at the beginning it says that there are 900 million Hindus and that 890 million of them live in India, but later it says, after you add the values, that there are 908290056 Hindus...just noticed the inconsistency so i figured i would tell...
68.17.203.58 01:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headcount? 

message: Now this page is under fire.  It was great in January.--D-Boy 06:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Babri Mosque]] 

message: An user  is conducting a survey on his talkpage to "understand if Koenraad Elst could be cited as a valid non biased source for the 2002 Gujarat violence, Babri Masjid and Ram Janmabhoomi articles. .... Can we include Koenraad Elst's comments as a valid NPOV factual/news source? Please highlight with your comments on why we should and why we should not? Concise and responding to these questions.I will only allow the first para of your responses here." 
I see this as a badly veiled attempt at censorship. By censoring Koenraad Elst from the Ayodhya related articles, one of the most important authorities on the Hindu side of the Ayodhya debate would be effectively silenced. The whole conducting of such a "survey" on wikipedia is just a replaying of the old Galileo affair, IMO it reeks of censorship, hate-mongering and attempted character assasination. Read the first 3 paragraphs of this link  of a chapter by Elst to see a similar example. Or this link . The use or non-use of a source or quote must be decided case by case, and according to WP:NPOV both sides of a debate can be quoted, not only the Muslim/Marxist side. This however is just an attempt to censor the Hindu side of the debate. Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedians against censorship --Soparnos 16:57, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vote for censorship 

message: I do not know very much in depth about Hinduism.  However I understand that the concept of an aspect of God as Heavenly Mother could be found in it.  The reason I mention this is because there is an article on "Heavenly Mother" which has been started by some Mormons and they are looking for information from other religions.  If you are interested in helping them please check it out.  Wishing you the best.  Steve Dufour 21:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Heavenly Mother]] in Hinduism?

message: I think we should separate Hindu Revival in Indonesia and Agama Hindu Dharma.  Agama Hindu Dharma should concetrate on the philosphical concepts on Balinese Hinduism and Hindu Revival in Indonesia should be renamed to Hinduism in Indonesia and concentrate on the history of hinduism in indonesia and its current influence and position.--D-Boy 07:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hinduism in Indonesia]] 

message: In the article "Kshatriya" under the heading "Non-Indian" it is stated that about 40 percent of the total population of Bali comprises of Balinese Kshatriyas. But in the article "Balinese caste system" Sudras are said to make up more than 90% of Bali's population. I am not so deep into the caste topic but something seems wrong to me. Any clues?
Article about Rta should be expanded.Devapriya 17:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discrepancy in articles "Balinese caste system" and "Kshatriya" 

message: 219.65.115.77 03:19, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Pallavas have long gone. Do you mean to say that the generations of eagles in the intervening 1300 years remember that their forefathers were once fed with dead human bodies and they keep coming back every day, even if they are fed only with rice and do not look for any other place where the fare could be better. And what happened to the followers of Zorastrians - Indian version, crossed back to Iran? And why should their custom be, obviously, throwing the bodies in an enclosure? You know, Wikipedia does not take in crank-head theories, you need to provide references. Aupmanyav 09:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First thing, it has not been conclusively proved that Pallavas were Pahlavas, and even if they were, the names in the Kings' list are all Hindu names. It seems, like many other foreigners who migrated to India in history, they must have embraced Hinduism and must be cremating their dead. Cremation grounds are generally not near temples. Aupmanyav 12:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pallavas--how did they dispose of their dead 

message: I would like to voluntarily state that I am a non-practicing NRI Hindu. I am not associated with RSS, HSS or any other organization that has openly stated its association with Hinduism.
Good, there are many like you in India also, how does it matter. What is wrong if RSS, HSS or any other organization has association with hinduism, is it a crime? Aupmanyav 09:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality Dispute 

message: Hinduism has evolved over centuries or even Millenium. Hindu Puranas (The 18 Puranas)have to be read as historic recordings over various Millenia. Hindu puranas talk about Pralaya or destruction of whole civilization many times over. The order of creation explained in Hindu texts broadly matches the present day theories of evolution (first creation of matter from energy, and then over billions of years, creation of single cell life forms, intelligence or budhi tathwam or Mahatathwam as it is called and then the various sensory organs and the media like direction air and sound or sight adnlight or selse of touch and skin etc. and then to higher level of life forms). The scriptures have also kept track of the time evolved. We are presently in the second Parardha (an eighteen digit number) of the Padma Kalpa. The first creation was in Brahma Kalpa when the big bang occured and the universe was created. There are 14 Manvanthara in each Kalpa and in each Manvanthara there are 71 cycles of Chathur Yuga (Kritha yugam, Thretha Yugam, Dwapara yugam , and Kali yugam.)At the end of each cycle of Chathur Yugam,  there is loss of civilization either in part or in full.  Many inventions will be lost. But vague indications of achievements may be left behind as stories. The puranic recordings show continuity. All of them talk about Vedas being handed over from generation to generation through oral or verbal transmission. Only a handful of people carried this message. Many times over the vedic messages or meanings have been lost or misinterpreted. Vedas themselves are like Wikipedia, and written or verse narrated / created by a number of saints or rishis. Upanishads are explanation of the Truth in the Vedas by the desciples of the Rishis. The Epics and Puranas are examples of practice of Vedic rituals and beliefs. These should not be read in bits and pieces. They have to be taken together. According to Hindu scriptures, destruction of civilization takes place when ever the natural balance is totally disturbed. en we will ealise that Archeological excavations may not be in a position to guage the antiquity or age of these scriptures. Do we have methods today to go deep enough over milleniums. Do we believe that material used over 10 or 12 Millenium will still be available as materials or utensils even after the earth has been subjected to numerous floods, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and other pressures. Many organic materials have been converted to Hydrocarbons. Why we cannot accept the dates and history given in the Puranas. 
I suggest that we write two versions side by side 1) based on the historic evidence collected through excavations or as interpreted by with todays' limited knowledge and 2) based on the evolution and antiquity explalined in the Hindu scriptures and also the time frame indicated there-in from begining of creation to present date. 
Hindu scriptures are the oldest social or religious information we have about humanity. This may also be History of human civilization and not of Hindus of today. Who knows as to whether Hinduism started in present day Americas or Africas and not in India. Humanity will develop enough expertice and knowledge one day to correctly guage the age of earth.
K.N.R.--K.N.Ramanathan 23:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some corrections, one of the latest researches says that humans might have expanded out of Africa as late at 50,000 years ago, and not as early as thought previously. Vedic religion might have flourished in North India and not in other parts. You may not call it hinduism, but both its components, the Vedic as well as indigenous, are much older, perhaps 10,000 years. Aupmanyav 07:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History of Hinduism 

message: Two users (User:Hornplease and User:Lkadvani) are advocating that the works of Koenraad Elst should be banned on wikipedia. 
Many of Koenraad Elst's works are on Indian politics and contemporary issues and conflicts of Hinduism and were published in India. I certainly agree some quotes are just not appropriate for an article, and that Elst was misquoted in some articles. But the entire tone of Hornplease's and Lkadvani's discussions shows more an inclination towards censorship and systematic bias, than an interest in neutrality, balance and reason. --Bondego 13:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this editor - for whom this is among the first edits - has posted several similarly accusatory posts elsewhere which I have replied to, I direct the interested reader to my responses , , and . ::Hornplease 05:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Koenraad Elst and banning of books 

message: Dear Hinduism Project editors,
There is a controversy on the Hinduism regarding Raja Yoga.  Please read the debate on the Hinduism  discussion page.  Your comments are requested on the Hinduism discussion page to help resolve the controversy.  Thank you. HeBhagawan 15:13, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Raja Yoga controversy

message: The DYK section featured on the main page is always looking for interesting new and recently expanded stubs from different parts of the world. Please make a suggestion.--Peta 02:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: DYK

message: I was considering whether it would be appropriate to merge the Mahavishnu and Vishnu pages together. I know that there is a difference between Vishnu and Mahavishnu: Mahavishnu being the Supreme Brahman figure, yet perhaps we could put a secondary heading about the Vaishnav Mahavishnu in. To be honest it is not the best of ideas, but most of the things to put in the Mahavishnu article are in the Vishnu article, so please give any suggestions as how we can do this without repeating information too much. Please reply on my user page 18:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahavishnu/Vishnu 

message: I have not been aware of any article about Ravirandal maa (a Kuldevi and Goddess from Gujarat). The Goddess, as you may have heard is worshipped by many Gujarati people in the boy head shaving "Balmuwara" ceremony/ when many hold "matajina lota" , and Randalmataji is also the consort of Suryanarayan Bhagwan. If any of you are familiar with Ravirandalmaa, please leave a message on my user talk . (I am more than happy to write the article myself). 18:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Randalmataji Article