Talk:Angels (Robbie Williams song)

message: * 'Angels' did NOT Win the 'Best Single of the Past 25 Years Award', at the 2005 BRITS. It was for the Best Single of the 25 BRITS, that had taken place to that point. The first was in 1977, then there was a gap - then it began again in 1982. The 2005 Awards were the 25th since 1977. That's what 'Angels' Won - the Best Single of 25 Years of The BRITS. For some reason, it has gone down as winning a 'Best Single of the Past 25 Years' Award - which would mean The BRITS began in 1981, & 2005 was the 25th. That never happened!
*: One need only look at some of the other Singles Nominated with 'Angels', to see that it was not for 'The Past 25 Years'. For example - 'We Are The Chsmpions', by Queen - a 1977 No.2 Hit.
*: No Singles Nominated would have been earlier than 1981, had it really been an Award for 'The Past 25 Years'. Unfortunately an awful lot of people do not think things through.  82.22.122.117 (talk) 23:49, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Queries

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Angels by all angels.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Angels by all angels.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Yuridia CD.JPG

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with File:51MC439R6GL. SS500 -1-.jpg

message: There has been huge expose that Williams did not write the song and it was Ray Heffernan from Dublin who never has been recognised by williams. And all mention of this keeps getting deleted from this page. Perhaps other more frequent editors can help protect the page from the editor or editors deleting this Tommyxx (talk) 12:07, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's an interview with the guy including the early recording of it. This info needs to be added as there are many articles about the fact.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 23:25, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm removing the information about the uncredited writer. This is a he said/she said arguement and has no place in the article. Wikipedia is about facts, the facts are Williams/Chambers are the only officially credited writers of the song. The source provided makes no comment about the alledged claim at all. Provide a reliable source that requires Ray Heffernan to be officially credited (outcome of a lawsuit?) and it can be put back in.--Dkspartan1 (talk) 16:06, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

text: Apparently the uncredited writer story has crept back into this article, with him even being given official writer credit in the infobox. Even if the story were true, the official credit still mentions Robbie and Guy Chambers only (see, for instance, the songwriters info on the website of ASCAP.com, which lists all songs published by publishing companies and authors associated with ASCAP). Therefore the credit in the infobox should read Williams and Chambers only. Since this story has yet to be proven (and to be verified by official sources, such as Robbie Williams himself, his management or his record company), I really think it should not be detailed here as fact, but merely as a minor and unproven sidenote.-- Zighlveit (talk) 21:47, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Williams did not write the song

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: *Keep - I was involved in the above discussion on this talk page and also the one that brought the discussion to the Dispute resolution noticeboard. The dispute about who wrote the song is a decent part of the article on the song and so should be represented in the lede as well per MOS:INTRO. NZFC(talk) 00:36, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Hi , please don't remove information about Ray Heffernan. It is reliably sourced and relevant to the article. Reverting or editing it again could result in you getting blocked. NZFC(talk) 02:31, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I have a question about this. What makes it reliably sourced? To me, it doesn't seem to comply with wikipedia's rules - am I wrong? Corevibes (talk) 19:39, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Ray Heffernan again 

message: Wikipedia is not only about facts everyone can easily look up somewhere else, such as who was officially credited with the song. Wikipedia article should be a convergence of facts and existing evidence. Ray Heffernan was paid " to go away" per Williams' acknowledgement. It's a fact. Ray Heffernan is in possession of the first ever recording that sounds exactly like the song. This particular article has a bunch of articles from here and there as their sources, it's not exactly a scientific research-based article with references to studies pulished in peer-reviewed journals.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Species84721 (talk • contribs) 19:00, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means, feel free to help make the writers section of the page more rigorously sourced. It's been the subject of a lot of consternation over the last few years, and if you listen to the referenced interview with Williams on True Geordie, it was actually this Wikipedia article which made him acknowledge Heffernan's claims, after two decades of outright denials. Your comment about the need to add academic sources amuses me greatly - this sort of back door deal is not the sort of thing that there will ever be reliable sources published on. --Jonie148 (talk) 09:37, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

text: , I think this is pretty well covered in the first section of the article body, the Writing section. Popcornfud (talk) 12:13, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ray Heffernan was the original writer. No proper acknowledgement in this article, not even a section on that. 

message: Upon reading this article for the first time, I thought I mistakenly clicked on an article about Ray Heffernan! I was struck across the face with large sections of information about his claimed input - which was not what I was looking for! 
Given the clear controversy about the sources on Ray Heffernan's input (most of this talk page!), I don't think it's relevant enough to include a long paragraph about Heffernan in the first part of this article: 
 - It's not particularly relevant that Heffernan claims to have co-written an earlier version of the song - definitely not enough to warrant a paragraph in the first section!
 - It's absolutely not the most important things that people need to know!
It belongs in the 'writing' section. For those reasons, I would remove that paragraph in the lead section - BUT I was told off for removing something that said 'do not remove' - so I'm going to keep it there, but shift it to the 'writing' section instead on the above grounds of not being relevant enough for the lead.
Corevibes (talk) 20:06, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Corevibes. I'd prefer that the information on Heffernan was replaced in the page lead. A quick look at the article's talk page indicates that this is by far the most significantly debated aspect of the article - consensus for the last few years has been that this information belongs in the page lead, and lots of editors have fought for it to be there, so that it's prominently displayed to Wikipedia readers. Relegating it to the writers section entirely (as you have done) seems like censorship to me, but you may of course obtain consensus for the edit. As another user wrote on your talk page, it really would have been good for you to seek consensus before editing the page in this manner, twice. --Jonie148 (talk) 11:14, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

text: The lead should summarise the main parts of the body. As this seems to be a decent chunk of the article, the current coverage in the lead appears to represent it appropriately as it stands. Popcornfud (talk) 21:38, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning lead