Talk:Culture/Archive 2

message: The phrase 'world view' is used in the section on civilization, but then there is a section on 'world view' which follows. This may be confusing to some. 
Seventhpower 04:21, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Civilization 

message: KNOWLEDGE    
Can it be said that cultures/societies can be designated or identified in various ways, without debating the particular ways?  For example, they can be identified by one or more of the following:   proper name, country, time period, particular features. 
COMPREHENSION    
Likewise, can it be said that cultures/societies can be understood in various ways? For example, through observation, research, or education. 
APPLICATION    
Can it be said that people apply their knowledge and comprehension of culture in various ways? 
ANALYSIS    
Can it be said that cultures/societies and culture/features  can be analyzed in various ways? For example traits, elements, varieties, comparison, classification. 
SYNTHESIS    
Can it be said that knowledge, understanding and analysis of culture can form the basis for 'synthesis?'  For example the formation of theories about human activity. 
EVALUATION    
Can it be said that cultures and culture can be evaluated and judged, again, without debating the particular ways of doing that? 
List is from "Writers Inc., A Guide to Writing, Thinking, & Learning", chart on Thinking Operations. 
(Sorry about the 'style.' I'll get there eventually)
Seventhpower 05:29, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Characteristics 

message: Re: Statement, "(Some people confuse culture with the society that has a particular culture.)" 
What would be several examples of this? Are there any examples in the article itself? 
Why do you imagine that people have this confusion?
What percentage of readers of the article would you expect to have this confusion? 
How would that affect the interpretation of what is read, if they could not visualize the different interpretation that the writer intended?
Seventhpower 22:03, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Culture as patterns of Products and Activities 

message: I just noticed the "contents page" and realized that there are four subsections under the "Definitions" section. When reading these subsections, I had no idea they were supposed to be within the Definitions section. I was only considering the introduction with the quotes to be a complete section on Definitions. I am so sorry, but visually I couldn't tell. 
It first comes across that most of the article is organized on a chronology of the word 'Culture.' What are other possibilities for sequencing the material? For example, from simple to complex, for younger readers. 
The terms 'definition, theories, and human activity' are grouped together in the general introduction and also in the introduction to Definitions, but the reader may not know which of these to anticipate first when approaching what comes next. It might be helpful to create guided mental images to tie these all together. People well-versed in the subject may have lots of images to rely on, but some readers might think that Mediterranean cultures are the same as Mediterranean countries, way of life is the same as life style, and human activity means going to the gym. 
For some not familiar with terms and usage, they may have to pick out random words that they can easily visualize and come up with distorted ideas of what is trying to be said. I'm sorry, but when I see the very first sentence with a Latin definition which includes 'cultivate,' I see a plow and the back of my Grandfather's mule. And when I see 'Culture as Civilization' I see 'Villages as Cities,' in spite of the fact that I have read the section several times. 
71.253.134.119 04:52, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Article Organization 

message: What would be 3-6 classic examples of ‘human activity’ relating to basic human needs?     
Cooking, sewing, building a house, making a boat, making pottery, weaving?
What would be 3-6 classic examples of ‘human activity’ relating to the geographical environment?      Making a fire, mining, damming up a river? 
Examples relating to human environment?   Conversation, school, voting, war, ceremonies
What would be 3-6 classic examples of non-material ‘human activity?’  painting, singing, dancing?
Classic examples of symbols (anthropology)?     Writing, measurement, mapping, accounting, laws, calendars?
Seventhpower 04:30, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Examples 

message: How is the term 'theory' used when talking about culture? How does it compare to the Scientific Method? Is there raw data, observation, hypotheses, testing, variables, conclusions, laws? Can the reader pick out some of these elements from the texts in the Definitions and classify them as data, observation or conclusion?
Seventhpower 03:20, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theory 

message: Could someone do a paragraph to expand on the statement in the introduction about classifying experiences... and communicating them using symbols.    Seventhpower 22:00, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: i'll give it a shot.  It happens to be research i'm neck deep in anyway. ~FreddieResearch
Thanks for the contribution.
Do these symbols include intangible symbols as well, such as spoken language, music, song, dance, drama, etc.? Is the emphasis more on individual creative expression, utility, tradition or official symbols? Is there an emphasis on the concept of 'saving' information over a period of time, as in written law codes, to prevent the rules from changing?
Seventhpower 23:44, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbols 

message: There are three elements in writing an article: Understanding the material, understanding the reader, and getting it across. When trying to understand the material of any subject, it is logical to approach it chronologically. It is logical to start with the atom and end with the universe in science. It is logical to start with prehistory and end with yesterday's news in history. It is logical to think that a child has to be able to read, write and do math before studying physics. But a two-year-old can do a sink/float experiment or do a magnetic/nonmagnetic experiment without being able to talk. So there is the viewpoint of the teacher and the viewpoint of the student or reader. A class of 25 children can walk into a museum cultural display and randomly go from station to station and learn something valuable. The information is presented in parallel form.
I am not suggesting that an encyclopedia article should be a children's book or a handbook on cultural displays and projects, but I am just showing the various ways that an article of this type might be used and benefitted from. 
Rather than give my personal opinion, I have found one resource which reflects massive amounts of research in the U.S. on the subject of young children and briefly mentions what information educators would look for in an encyclopedia article on culture. There is an online book of national childcare standards called, "Caring for Our Children." 
Using the index to look for references, I found the following: demonstrate cultural competence, cultural diversity, cultural expectations (potty training), cultural groups, cultural sensitivity. And "provide cultural curricula that engages children and teaches multicultural learning activities."
In the National Association for the Education of Young Children accreditation standards, the preschools are expected to "provide varied opportunities and materials to build their understanding... of diversity in culture."  
Personally, I can relate to studying the history of different subjects. I studied the history of calendars, history of drama, history of language, history of math, etc, while the children wandered around making forts in the woods. In order to save time, I resorted to checking out children's books from the library in order to get a quick overview on the essence of a subject, that was lacking in the encyclopedia or textbooks. If all else fails, you can find a website on jokes of the subject to get a really condensed bird's eye view of something. I couldn't teach a subject until I 'got it.' 
At first, beginning with a Latin definition and ending with theory in this article came across as a connotation of exclusivity, almost an 'old boys club.' Latin is for law and medicine. 'Those who enter these gates must know Latin.' But the more I read and reread this article, the more I could identify with the need to study the subject chronologically, and the more I could appreciate the massive amount of research that this must have entailed. I understand that the more you get into a subject, the more you abstract the information in order to keep adding to the understanding of it. It takes an outsider to give feed-back on what is coming across. I am only one reader out of thousands, but hopefully my comments will help. The writers of this article are doing an awesome job. Absolutely  awesome.  
Seventhpower 18:31, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You keep talking about what children will want from an article. Perhaps this would all be far more relevant to Wikijunior than to Wikipedia. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:50, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What readers look for 

message: Culture can also be viewed from the perspective of science. Then it can be simply defined as 'a way of life' or a 'lifestyle'. Actually, different scientist study about various species, for e.g. ants. We don't know that ants have civilization or not. But again scientist refer to them as 'ant cultures'. It is something characteristic of the way the ant species live...
:Human and primate cultures are studied by scientists called anthropologists. Slrubenstein   |  Talk 16:35, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with that. I my argument was more kind of trying to say that culture need not be something always refering to human activity. To put it simple in concept, it s just a way of life. I referred to a World Book Encyclopedia article related to the same subject. It is and old publication though! Check out the 1990 edition, World Book Encyclopedia, Vol 4, Ci:1186. The Article was written by Prof Paul Bohannan, Professor Emritus of Anthropology, University of Southern California. Hope this helps. :-)Arun. T Jayapal   |  Talk--Arun T Jayapal 06:37, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opinion 

message: I have attempted to roughly group some of the concepts in each definition into the categories mentioned in previous comments. The process was fascinating and the results were revealing. 
The concept for doing this came from a book called the Montessori Elementary Curriculum. The idea is to take each element of a subject and study some examples.  Then take one example and study each element. For example, study bird size, bird diets, bird habitats, etc. Then take one bird and study the color, calls, reproductive habits, etc. 
The following very rough clustering gives me just enough of a framework to visualize how a person could write an article on the culture of waiters in a restaurant, for example. The social unit would be the customers, the application would be tips.
Or analyze the chronology of contributions to this article as it relates to brain hemispheres, as another example. The cultured/uncultured concept would bring to mind linear thinking, while the idea that all people have culture would bring to mind wholistic thinking, etc. I don't want to get off track with creative writing essays. 
Identity:   Social units
human beings, gender groups, age groups, households, racial groups, ethnic groups,  societies, literate & nonliterate societies, nomadic & sedentary societies, descent groups, social classes, corporate cultures, social regions, nations, political powers, empires, colonies, 
Characteristics:    Human activity
environment, artifacts, material culture, economic goods, activities, ways of living together, lifestyles, technology, knowledge, language, art, literature, traditions, customs, morals, value systems, beliefs, religion, symbols, emotions, ideologies, social characteristics, laws, patterns
Organization:    Place
chaos, anarchy, nature, values, sanctions, norms, boundaries, civilization, culture, worldview, empire, colony, subcultures, heterogenous, multiculturalism, cultural associations, cultural identity, identity politics
Processes:    Time
uncultured, evolution, adaptation, invention, innovation, becoming civilized, becoming cultured, social cultivation, cultural change, communication, education, propagation, tourism, cultural studies
Dynamics:    Energy
diffusion, transculturation, acculturation, diffusion of innovation, migration, colonial expansion, slavery, economic systems, domination, resistance, symbolic systems in their role of creating predictable and controllable conditions, assimilation
Application:    Direction
become more civilized, more cultured, set standards of refinement, measure all groups, express natural & authentic way of life,    
nationalist movements, nationalist struggles, racism,     
observations, comparisons, similarities, differences, patterns, meaning, expression, interpretation of symbols, context, cultural relativism,     
values, norms, expectations, laws,     
communication, control, predictability, change, improvement, preservation of ways, construct cultural identity
Note:    I have no intention of contributing to the article itself. Comments are feedback of one reader. 
Seventhpower 05:15, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Analysis-- Synthesis 

message: The Culture of human beings was created recently, presumably by someone who did not take the time to read this article.  This article is detailed and provides many verifiable sources.  I am opposed to merging any material from the CHB article into this one, as none of it is sourced, it looks like original research or speculation. Slrubenstein   |  Talk 19:25, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Why isn't this topic handled with WikiProject_Culture? I thought larger-than-one-article topics are what Wikiprojects were for. (To keep article discussion pages to a reasonable length and decide on how to split and merge subtopics, etc.) CQ 09:01, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge question 

message: Anyone who has this page on their watchlist, can you go to Virago?  A who is putting forward notions of racial and identifying them with a notion of gender-difference, and I are in a conflict.  Fundamentally, I believe he is a racist' his claims about race contradict everything I have read by physical and cultural anthropologists and as far as I can tell, his claims about gender at best seriously distort the literature.
You can see the difference here 
On the talk page, start here , and then just read the whole debate.
Comments from others needed.  Thanks, Slrubenstein   |  Talk 23:39, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  help! 

message: I've created an article to catalogue and do a general summary of cultures of the world.  Please contribute.--Culturesoftheworld 18:50, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultures of the World]] 

message: "In practice, culture referred to élite goods and activities such as haute cuisine, high fashion or haute couture, museum-caliber art and classical music, and the word cultured described people who knew about, and took part in, these activities. For example, someone who used 'culture' in the sense of 'cultivation' might argue that classical music "is" more refined than music produced by working-class people such as punk rock or than the indigenous music traditions of aboriginal peoples of Australia."
Someone has a cip on their shoulder.--80.42.154.255 13:38, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: moved the Values section near top to address your point. --Ancheta Wis 16:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: neutrality

message: This used to be considered an important enough concept to merit main page status. I encourage all those concerned to work this out. Please use this talk page to raise the issues and concerns. Perhaps we can get on the main page again. SLR, it appears that it would be alright to rem the tag if no one responds by raising their concerns on this page. --Ancheta Wis 15:28, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When culture was originally given main page status as a category, it referred to culture as in popular or high culture. As the Portal:Culture has evolved it is more to do with ethnography and such, which is or can be well covered by Portal:Society (which was originally intended to be social sciences. So since Portal:Art covers the intent better (there will be far more searches for works of art, literature, etc. than ethnic groups), I bumped it. dml 18:30, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

text: dml, I do not disagree with the bumping. So be it. What I am still trying to accomplish is a clean page for a fundamental concept, which is that cultural values actually motivate human action. That concept would get buried in the society page, which includes groups of people, whereas a person acting for his own honor or for wealth, or in search of truth is acting as an individual.  BTW, cats/ portals/ overviews haven't done too badly have they? They are now on many pages. Congratulations. --Ancheta Wis 22:40, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not believe this article ever presented culture as popular or high - I believe it presented that way of talking about culture as one point of view and presented other views. Slrubenstein   |  Talk 16:05, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loss of main page status 

message: I have here in Boorstin's  The Discoverers  an alternate etymological origin for 'culture'.  He claims, in his section on Tylor called "A Science of Culture" that 'culture' comes from the Latin 'cultus' meaning 'worship'.  He says the word "originally meant reverential homage".  It then became, Boorstin says, a word employed to describe the cultivation of soil.  Any thoughts?  -FreddieResearch
:My source was Raymond Williams Keywords.  Could you check OED too? Slrubenstein   |  Talk 10:47, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culture from 'colere' or 'cultus'??