Talk:Mahar

message: The subject of intra-Indian discrimination and oppression is both interesting and, as it continues, important both within India and abroad.  Regrettably, though, much of this article is so written as to be unintelligible in its details.  Can someone knowledgeable about the subject and capable in English rewrite it?  Firstorm (talk) 22:44, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help! 

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According to the Indian census of 2001, there were 64 Mahars in Arunachal Pradesh, Its reference is available in this article. Please, refer to the reference in the table of the Mahars population by the states. Thank you.
Vijay bramhane (talk) 05:54, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welcome! 

message: See and, for example, the plain text "[1]" appearing in  two places in the lead section, other bits of square-bracketed text elsewhere and e.g., this edit. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:56, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parts of this article have been trashed by someone copying rendered wikitext. 

message: :Commented out text from header section; "IS THIS REFERRING TO THE MAHAR SPECIFICALLY??????? OR TO DALITS IN GENERAL????? IF THE LATTER5 THIS IS TOO MUCH A DISCURSION. These people were forced to be untouchable and people who are treated inhumanly by caste Hindus. Their economic status changed after joining British Army and some left their untouchable traditional jobs. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 02:30, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Cant see your cite but, this article is about "MAHAR".Blueyarn (talk) 20:39, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed text

message: Read Wikipedia:Verifiability and WP:NOR. Unsourced will be removed. Blueyarn (talk) 18:39, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced in Christianity 

message: This section goes on and on about Sai being Nana Peshawa, without giving any reference. Even with a reference, how is this relevant to the article on Mahars? 
As for the rest of the section about 500 Mahars defeating thousands in Peshwa army, it completely misses the historic context of defeat of the Peshwas by the British. 
Yes, the untouchability and brahminical rituals (karmakanda) perpetuated by the Peshwas, and their influence on Mahars in specific and Indian sociopolitics in general are relevant topics that need discussion, but as things stand, the whole section reads like rantings of a bitter conspiracy theorist.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.15 (talk) 11:25, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The Mahar Factor: Decline of Peshwas and the rise of British India" section reads like a conspiracy theory, is unsourced, and is irrelevant to the topic 

message: This section does not contribute anything beyond an unsourced "just so story" to the topic.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.15 (talk) 11:37, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Mahars, Maharashtra and the Marathas: the origin of Marathi Language." is a long winding, unsourced ramble 

message: This could be the article in which you are interested. This article is a start class article, you can improve it if you are interested. --Human3015 knock knock • 22:23, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. But this needs the attention of someone with a background in sociology. The one sociological work I have read, Vijay Prashad's Untouchable Freedom, does not talk about Mahars. -Mohanbhan (talk) 01:09, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvement request 

message: Does the Kulkarni source actually support all of the long list of varied occupational roles that are given in the article? I cannot see the entire source and I am concerned that various things may have been added to the list over time without actually verifying to the source. - Sitush (talk) 19:39, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kulkarni source 

message: regarding this edit, are the Mahar even present in the other states of India in any significant numbers? I understand what you were trying to do but there may be a better way to deal with cramming that amount of detail into the lead section.
Also, I am going to remove the script - please see WP:INDICSCRIPT. - Sitush (talk) 12:45, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks for your edits. As per current I don't find them in more than I've mentioned in the article, if find any sources that they exists in other states too I'll add up in the article. Happy editing :) --✝iѵɛɳ२२४०†ลℓк †๏ мэ 16:15, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, thanks. I will simplify it later. - Sitush (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahar 

message: ,
According to the Indian census of 2001, there were 64 Mahars in Arunachal Pradesh, Its reference is available in this article. Please, refer to the reference in the table of the Mahars population by the states. Thank you.
Vijay bramhane (talk) 05:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: All of this details for 10s and 100s of people in a state seems daft to me. We don't need a table and can convey the general picture much easier using prose. - Sitush (talk) 17:08, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahars in Arunachal P. 

message: The states and territories with the highest absolute population are "major" areas compared to those with lower populations. I do understand that the population density in Goa is particularly high but density is not the way in which most people read the word "major" in this context. That's one reason why I reverted the recent anon edit. - Sitush (talk) 17:07, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Populated places 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://literarism.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-mahar-movements-military-component.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
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thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: Is Mahar Encyclopedia regarded as a reliable source ? Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 20:08, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: , No definitely not, here they are suggesting that they are just mirroring other encyclopedias? This article needs huge transformation.  QueerEcofeminist "cite! even if you fight"!!! [they/them/their] 13:00, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahar Encyclopedia 

message: The things you removed were important information about mahars, you added mehar again and mehra is clearly written in governmental document. later you removed the thing Jyotirao Phule States
Jyotirao Phule is a celebrated personality in Maharashtra. he's one of the first social activists who worked for dalits and girls when hindus specifically Brahmins didn't allowed readings learns to Untouchables Jyotirao phule start teaching Untouchables, you can read entire article you can find mahars were treated as Untouchable hindu society
while with british they Under British rule, the Mahars became aware of the scope for social and political advancement Their traditional role had been low-status but important in the village system. Nowthatsk (talk) 06:49, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Being a celebrated personality does not make him a reliable source of history or etymology. Opinions of caste activists - whether Brahmins or Dalits or anyone else - are not acceptable sources for these topics. You can take this to WP:RSN, if you wish. utcursch | talk 01:33, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

text: Modern scholarly journals and books are a good place to start. Go through WP:TUTORIAL, if you haven't already. utcursch | talk 00:58, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Utcursch 

message: These Discusions happened with administrators earlier. 
1)Before Peshawa (Madhawrao II) rule Mahar were not considered as untouchables. As Mahar did not do any polluting work. 
2)Maha + Ari = Great Warrior or Opponent. (Sanskrit Meaning) 
3)Bhangi cast is present in maharashtra from centuries which does street sweeper's work.
People who oppose it can add their points here. Raje Ranveer (talk) 11:29, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Where did these discussions take place? With whom? - Sitush (talk) 04:15, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

text: Would be good to link to the sources to back up the claims. Thanks. Vikram Vincent  07:04, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahar Discussion 

message: The Mahar encyclopedia article does not qualify as a reliable source due to its sources. All but one of the sources the encyclopedia.com article cites are unreliable. British Raj era sources are not considered reliable for castes, and neither is the works of caste activists like Ambedkar. If you can find a modern, reliable, academically published secondary source, then it can be placed here. See WP:RS, WP:HISTRS, and . Chariotrider555 (talk) 01:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Also since its copypasted it violates WP:CV. Chariotrider555 (talk) 01:21, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Chariotrider555 (talk) 17:28, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

text:  I have reverted your edit in the history section since the changes violate WP:RS. Might be better to find other sources to substabtiate. Vikram Vincent  15:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Encyclopedia.com as a reliable source 

message: I noticed OR within the article. Will have to find secondary RS to replace them.  Vikram Vincent  07:06, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  OR sources within text 

message: Discuss Mahar Untouchability Sid.ghodeswars (talk) 17:43, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sid.ghodeswars, Hindu society treated any community or person that worked with dead animals, processed products such as leather from dead animals (chamar and Mang), disposed off dead animals(mahar), disposed off human waste products(bhangi) as untouchables. We don't know when it started but certainly well before the Peshwa. Hindu society even now makes menstruating women untouchable in some parts of India. It is hypocritical and callous of the wider hindu community to have made these communities responsible for society's dirty work and then declared them untouchable but we can not change history. I don't know what purpose is served by denying the fact that untouchability was not practiced before the Peshwa. The Peshwas did not rule large areas of present day Maharashtra. These regions were ruled by the Nizam of Hyderabad or the Nagpur Bhosale. How were the mahars treated in these regions? According to a book written in 1938, the Nagpur Mahars were treated as untouchable at that time. The Peshwa never had any power in that region.
I agree with you Untouchability was there before Peshwa rule we don't know when Mahar treated as untouchables.
But Mahar's traditional occupation was to defend village boundaries and not the "disposing dead cow"
"Disposing dead cow" they adapted later and many subcastes of Mahar were not involved with this work.In many villages of Maharashtra Mahar did not do this work, some other caste has to this work.
"Disposing dead cow" is not the reason why Mahar were treated as untouchables.It is the habit of eating cow's meat that made other people treat Mahar's as untouchables and we don't know when Mahars started eating cow's meat. This habit of eating cow's meat can be found in all subcastes of Mahar. May be during the famine of 1200 or 1300 they started eating it. 
All I am saying Untouchability is recent phenomena to Mahar's so when one says "historically Mahar's treated as untouchables " reader gets impression that Mahar's were as untouchables right from the start which is not true for Mahars. Many scholar believes that Mahar were ruler and due to "political defeat or simply defeat" they were pushed down in the social hierarchy. The references that you provided are written after Mahar became untouchables, they do not talk about when and why Mahar became untouchables. We should at least mention the reason (eating cow's meat) and Untouchability is new to Mahars. Reply here what you think about it. Sid.ghodeswars (talk) 18:02, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

text: User:Sid.ghodeswars, please provide reliable sources to back up your claims. Chariotrider555 (talk) 13:29, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: [[User:Sid.ghodeswars], I have no source on when mahars were assigned the task of disposing off dead cattle. The raj era book on the community talks about the mahars jealously guarding that right and especially from the mangs who had interest in the animal hide for making ropes.As it says in the article, animal disposal was not the only task /duty of Mahar watan. Compared with other balutedars of the village they performed many varied tasks. Also untouchable or not, mahars served in the armies of the sultanates, the moghals, the maratha empire, and the East India company. Even during peshwai, the oppressive policies started only towards the end.There is also an example of a mahar family holding the patilki of a village near Wai. They also worked at times as agricultural labourers. In a nutshell, the history of mahars is more complex than painted in the article.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 15:02, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

text: User:Sid.ghodeswars, User:Jonathansammy please provide reliable sources to back up your claims. Chariotrider555 (talk) 13:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

text: Sid.ghodeswars, please sign your posts.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 17:47, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

text: Yes, there was no consensus taken. I repeatedly asked for reliable sources to back up claims, but they were never provided. I am going to revert the removal of sourced content until reliable sources can be brought forth to contradict the statement that Mahars were considered to be untouchable. Additionally, it is extremely difficult to follow any conversation going on here given the way the users are writing here. Chariotrider555 (talk) 18:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

text: It is your WP:BURDEN to provide sources in support of your content, not for others. And stop threatening users, when you are at fault for not going as per core policies of Wikipedia. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:50, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You are making WP:UNCIVIL comments repeatedly. And I didn't revert your changes. And you failed to understand basic Wikipedia policies. Next time you'll be reported. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:36, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

text: If people revert your edits and restore to the long-standing version, doesn't mean you should revert back without gaining a consensus in the talk page. This is basic WP:BRD rule as well as WP:STATUSQUO (restoration of longstanding version in case of dispute), which you seem to be violating, engaging in edit-warring. As for your UNCIVIL comments, even if you didn't direct it towards me here, I take offense to this as a member of the Wikipedia community, not to mention your uncivil behavior directed towards me in the other page. So take heed of it. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:58, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

text: Revenge? You are the one calling people lazy, biased and making threats. And in this page I saw you removing sourced longstanding content. You do not WP:OWN this article, understand that. Consider this your last warning. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:14, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahar Untouchability 

message: Present day Vidarbha region has the highest percentage of Mahar community. Historically apart from the traditional roles, they were also involved in weaving and other occupations.>Harnetty, P. (1991). 'Deindustrialization' Revisited: The Handloom Weavers of the Central Provinces of India, c. 1800-1947. Modern Asian Studies, 25(3), 455-510. Retrieved January 12, 2021, from http://www.jstor.org/stable/312614 This information should be added to the article. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 20:28, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Mahars of Central provinces

message: I think 30 Million population of Mahar is exaggerated figure. Can someone provide me reliable sources to verify the mentioned figure Mohmmud Khan (talk) 08:00, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahar Population 

message: Are the names to be presented as UPPERCASE? Vikram Vincent  14:36, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I noticed the capitalisation and know that only abbreviations are uppercase. Don't have the time to undo all that work :-) Vikram Vincent  14:53, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalisation of KUL/CLAN System of Mahar 

message: User:Jonathansammy Why did you revert my edits calling sources to be Raj Era ?? The sources I provided are government sources and Author "Syed Siraj-Ul-Hassan" is renowned historian his opinion and study is accepted on most other wikipedia pages. You need to read about "Syed Siraj-Ul-Hassan". Prem Mathurr (talk) 19:42, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The source you cited in from 1938, and therefore from British raj era. Per consensus reached /policy formulated, references before 1947 are not considered reliable.See hereYou are welcome to add back the content using a more recent reliable source.Thank you.Jonathansammy (talk) 20:09, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

text: Prem Mathurr You can not delete sourced material. I am going to wait for other interested editors and administrators to weigh in before reverting.Jonathansammy (talk) 22:01, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Prem Mathurr If you are right then the Mahar community was never oppressed, and should not be treated as dalit or categorized under the scheduled caste category, correct? Also if they were not oppressed then obviously Dr.Ambedkar was wrong in  asking them to abandon Hinduism, correct? I would be interested to learn  what  your objective in rewriting history. I look forward to your reply.Jonathansammy (talk) 15:19, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahar Revert 

message: I wish to add maharwada of elloracaves cave no. 5, please research on it also mahars are decendant of vrittra of Rig veda the enemy of Indra the vedic god as vrittra was serpent 🐍God and mahars are nagas. Ferocious93 (talk) 00:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 00:54, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2021 

message: What is wrong in using just one word, i.e. Carrion to describe meat from a naturally dead animal? My cited source had the word in four places, and also included Ambedkar's call for the Mahar community to refuse to dispose off the dead animals, or to eat the meat.If necessary, i can add quotes from the source.Comments.Thanks. Jonathansammy (talk) 15:56, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carrion