Talk:Indonesia/Archive 3

message: I am not sure of the value of this section. I've actually already removed it, but since it has found it's way back, I would thus encourage further discussion, rather than declare and edit war.  Firstly, as a major section on an Country article, it is giving the perceived issues a lot of emphasis, i suggest too much.  IS this done in other large articles on large countries?? Furthermore, these seem to be international disputes with 1 country only (ie, Australia).  Also, this entry seems driven more (australian?) point-of-view  agenda pushing than really providing FACTUAL information. it does't really provide concrete details, rather uses inuendo ie, re capital punishment - "several countries". Who? Sources, citations? As i said, i think this is a poor entry, and have removed it once. 
Two suggestions: as a minimum demote it's status in the article to the next lower heading level and provide citations/sources and re-write do it doesn't beat around the bush.  But, preferred option would be to move it to Politics_of_Indonesia#Foreign_relations.  Thoughts??? --Merbabu 04:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  International Disputes section 

message: According of government administration in Indonesia, Provinces consists of Regencies (Kabupaten) and Cities (Kota). Each Regency has a Regency Seat (Ibukota Kabupaten), and Regency Seat won't be called "city" or "town", though it has large population. 
The fact: Indonesia has many regencies and cities that (coicidently) have the same name, most of them due to their historical identity. For example Kabupaten Tangerang and Kota Tangerang, they have their own separated government administration, they have their own mayor and regent respectively. But until now, English Wikipedia consider they're one entity. Can we make them into separated articles? wic2020talk   bicara  11:44, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes of course just like in the Indonesian Wikipedia. But we should name the articles as follows : Name (city) or Name (municipality) and Name (regency). Meursault2004 12:50, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shall we make separated articles for regencies and cities with the same name? 

message: The Ethnic groups section, while fairly good, is obviously written by a single editor and contains a lot of unsourced statements. I have no doubt that the text is quite accurate (although I do think it contains one or two bits of opinion), but to conform to WP policy, we need to get cites. I'm going to add cite tag, please don't take it as an attack on the original editor's good work. Ashmoo 03:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One issue i have with the section is that it focuses a lot on the problems between ethnic groups, or problems centred around ethnicity. While important to the subject, there is more to ethnicities than problems. I will try to contribute soon. --Merbabu 04:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethnic groups section

message: Am I wrong, or is the Flag of Monaco the same as the Flag of Indonesia?
Amelie poulain, july 7 2006, 20:08
:Please note: This was not posted by the user whose signature was given. It was posted by 83.82.46.47 (talk • contribs). --GW_Simulations|User Page | Talk | Contribs | E-mail 18:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag of Indonesia 

message: Indonesia Portal has been made, please take a look and if possible, please give feedback. The shortcut for the portal is WP:PID. Imoeng 20:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indonesia Portal 

message: I put it as a nominee because it failed the FA status, so I reckon its better to go step by step. Moreover, with the new Indonesian WikiProject, this article need at least a Good article status. Cheers -- Imoeng 14:52, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article 

message: On the Ficus tinctoria page it is said that the plant is used as a dye in Indonesia - any information on local names etc? Jackiespeel 15:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dyes etc

message: Somewhat of a current event (August 10th-11th 2006).
BBC News online article
NY Times online article
While this issue is not as big as that of the current Israel-Lebanon conflict, I still would like to bring it up for discussions. I'm not exactly sure if this is the right place to do so, but I don't want to leave the issue unsaid.
In my opinion, if those 3 Christian men were, in fact, the masterminds of the murder of many Muslims in 2000, then there is nothing that could be done--I don't agree with the whole death penalty issue, but I'm not an Indonesian politician, so it's nothing I could change. But what really bothers me is the fact that the religious conflict in Poso, Central Sulawesi was not only carried out by the Catholics (perhaps extremists) themselves. 
As usual, there are always two sides to an argument. My question is: what are the Indonesian government doing to the Muslims who masterminded the murders of Christians during the conflict? Perhaps, as an act of retaliation, Muslim "gunmen  [attacked] Indonesian church". To this day, I have not heard anything about the execution of those gunmen.
From the New York Times article above: "As events unfolded today, it was not at all clear, however, that the government would be able to proceed with the execution of the Bali bombers." Excuse my lack of eloquence, but why the hell can't they proceed?! (Perhaps I'm not reading into it correctly, so correct me if I'm wrong.) The Bali bombings was more of an international issue as it affected many tourists in the area.
As an Indonesian myself, I find this issue very unsettling; and as an atheist, I try to be unbiased about this issue, but to me it seems like the government is very biased. Of course, perhaps some bias is inevitable since a large amount of voters in the country are Muslims, but this is taking it too far. I have no doubt that if there were no religions involved, the result would be very different.
I am not trying to attack the Muslims with this article, I am merely questioning the country's--and even more so--the government's integrity regarding this issue. 
"Some Muslim leaders have called unsuccessfully for the government to undertake a thorough investigation of these allegations, and for postponing Mr. Tibo’s execution so that he can testify."(NY Times online article)
--JT 13:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: what point do you want to prove? I think this is a wikipedia, not a bulletin board. Do you want to talk about Human Rights in Indonesia or Indonesian Government's integrity? Kunderemp 02:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

text: There's no such person above the law. Those 3 christians have been tried and proven to be guilty of mass murder before the court. There are many examples of non-christians criminals being in the death row. Anyway, this is wikipedia, not a forum. — Indon 21:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indonesia's (planned) execution of three Christians 

message: Someone emailed us to point out that this article, citing List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita, gives a GDP of ~$4500 per capita; Economy of Indonesia gives $3,700, from the CIA World Factbook. Both seem to be 2005 PPP figures. Any idea which is accurate, and which one we should be standardised? Shimgray | talk | 10:38, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there are two sources. The CIA World Factbook on Indonesia  (updated on August 22, 2006) is $3,600 (est. 2005) and the IMF review on Indonesia  is $4,458.450. Both are estimations and reliable, so you can take these two as margins. — Indon (reply) — 09:39, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. So should we list a range in the infobox? I'm not desperately worried about two sources disagreeing, it's just that we quote different ones on different pages... Shimgray | talk | 10:17, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess if we put both figures with correct references on both of them, then it will be all right. I've put them in the infobox. — Indon (reply) — 10:51, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense. I've footnoted the refs, but unfortunately we can't footnote the (110th) - still, at least it's next to the $4500, which is what it's derived from. I'll add these to Economy of Indonesia Shimgray | talk | 11:02, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's better ;-). — Indon (reply) — 11:08, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GDP inconsistencies 

message: Earlier info about Indonesia's relative size was removed by editor User:Indon. That one of several facts in original contribution happens also to exist, in tabular format no less, on an entirely different article doesn't justify removal from this page of full freakin' edit. Don't torque people off with gratuitous deletes. It's bad form. --TheEditrix2 20:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello TheEditrix2, have you seen my edit summary? Your edit to Indonesia article about Indonesia's size has been covered in the main article of that section. See Geography of Indonesia. There you see all things about size, etc. Your contribution is good, but it didn't go well with the flow of the whole section. Please consider of the flow of the article's story, not just putting something in it. — Indon (reply) — 07:26, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geography edit