Talk:Infinite Crisis/Archive 3

message: In effect we've been wandering away. We must revert to the strictly addition to do at the page, so securing them with consent from an edit war. Summing up the whole thing gives up a few questions:
* Synopsis plot or Summary plot? If we have a synopsis "issue by issue", like on Livewires breaking down the current summaries, the synopsis of issue #3 must be centered on the whole "tuning fork question". If we choose to kkep the current Summary plot, we must wait for the complete explanation.
* It must in the "Editorial planning and Infinite Crisis" that before and a bit later the whole return of Donna Troy a lot of hints on the Crisis were scattered throughout the DCU. The whole Arion thing and the references in JSA #32 about the biological origins of Power Girl's power are from 2002, and strongly fit with the things said by Lois Lane in Issue #2. In the same series the whole Per Degaton thing, "I saw you die," when he perfectly foresaw that Atom Smasher's heart would burn with sin, and provoked the appaereance of Daniel.
Are these information to add? Or to left behind?
* Superman//Batman, end of the First Story Arc. When Lex Luthor said "There will be a Crisis", could we consider that a forecoming of the Infinite Crisis? If yes, is another addition, the final for now, to put in the "Editorial planning" section.
DrTofu83 18:53, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Actual discussion

message: Does anyone else we should reduce the number of tie-ins listed in the "Other key tie-in issues" section? It's excessive as this is not a comic book collecting website, and we do not have a very good description of many. Another thing we should probably not list is EVERY SINGLE ONE of the heroes in Donna Troy's "strike team". --Ace ETP 20:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Except for Rogues War, all the others are pretty relevant to either Infinite Crisis or one of the minis going into Infinite Crisis. Timon 05:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excess of Tie-ins 

message: Hi, it seems to me that this two characters dead is indeed confirmed, in Day Of vengeance special is said that all the lords of chaos and order have been killed, also Hawk and Dove get depowered and Hawk says she felt them die. 
Reply: They're magic. They've seemed dead before. So, although you have a good point, it could be wrong. Similarly, I'd argue that even though Jason Todd said he'd killed Captain Nazi, that doesn't mean he's right. (How does a character that powerful get killed by a taser, for crying out loud!) Wryspy 22:46, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  T'Charr and Terataya 

message: As far as I know (and I don't know if Geoff Johns et al have bothered with this snippet of continuity with the current Hawk and Dove), T'Charr and Terataya sacrificied their soon to end lives in Hawk and Dove #16 or so, to preserve the Hawk and Dove enchantment past their anticipated death. So they should have been dead looooong before IC.
Edit: OK, I didn't read the Day of Vengeance special (or the previous post closely enough). Guess it was retconned out with the appearance of the new Hawk.
*They got better.Wryspy 08:39, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: They've been dead...

message: Is firefly death? didn't he appeared on JLA 116-ish issue (don't rember)? I think that is after omac... then again right now I'm totally confused. --T-man... ""worst vandal ever"" 23:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The comic with that cover is at least a year old. Hell, the image of Dick Grayson with the Batman outfit is a decade old. ' (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 20:38, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fire fly 

message: ...unless you think Superman's kid is going to look like a big headed imp with a really tiny hat, hehe--T-man... ""worst vandal ever"" 04:22, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The comic with that cover is at least a year old. Hell, the image of Dick Grayson with the Batman outfit is a decade old. ' (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 20:38, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: MXY... alive?

message: I'm going to remove the Speed Force reference from the following statement because Wally says it's not the Speed Force in IC #4: Flash III, wife Linda Park West, children Barry West & Iris West II (Infinite Crisis #4, disappeared into Speed Force, status unknown)  
I just want everyone to know why I'm doing it, so no one reverts it without a reason. --Rocketgoat 21:35, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Speed Force

message: One thing that would help shorten this article would be to create a separate article for Countdown to Infinite Crisis and move most of its description to the new page. Right now, if I enter Countdown to Infinite Crisis, it redirects me back to the Infinite Crisis article.
:It was decided early on in the article and series's lifespan to merge the Countdown into this article. KramarDanIkabu 22:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Early on, yes, that made sense. But now is not early on. Now it takes up a lot of space on an increasingly crowded page.Wryspy 05:04, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. Article will be in a very different position. Maybe the whole leadup to infinite crisis section could be put in it's own article rather than just the countdown special itself. while the individual miniseries leadups didn't I believe the TPB of the minis did all bear a subtitle saying countdown to infinite crisis, does anyone else recall?  - Waza 06:12, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree.  I think we should create an Infinite Crisis category and list all this stuff there.  And maybe the Infinite Crisis article will need to be split into a commentary article and a synopsis article.  Lokicarbis 06:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Countdown needs separate entry.

message: This article is still too long - I have trimmed the crossover section. If anyway want to discuss the editorial and business drivers behind crossovers, surely that needs to be article on it's own with a link from here to there?
--Charlesknight 00:01, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Crossover section

message: One of the problems with this article is the repetition. If we have a mention that the spectre destroyed the rock of enternity near the start - we don't need it again! (of course it may well be that mention of the outcome maybe needed).
As mentioned further up, Wikipedia is for [i]the man on the street[/i], there is a level of detail here that is not need for the target audience.
--Charlesknight 11:39, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repetition and overdetailed

message: Why do we have reference to the death of characters in the Seven soliders series? Those deaths have no direct connection or impact on infinite crisis. Didio has stated that "We have positioned Seven Soldiers as post-Crisis, running simultaneously with 52"
Therefore any deaths have no direct connection to this series and I will remove them.
--Charlesknight 17:02, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seven Soldiers?

message: OK with the best intensions in the world, we are heading towards a situation where revisions are going to go backwards and forwards. 
My last revisions were reverted by ACE_ETP with the explanation: (Don't erase important plot points for unnecesary brevity. We've only recently managed to trim down all other sections so the synopses could be big. Sabbac II is not dead and Amethyst only MAY be.)
Let me explain my revisions and see if we can come to some agreement about them?
Me: Infinite Crisis is the sequel to 1985's 12-issue limited series Crisis on Infinite Earths.
ACE_ETP: Infinite Crisis is a sequel to Marv Wolfman and George Pérez's successful 1985 12-issue limited series Crisis on Infinite Earths.
Why on earth does it matter if the original series was successful or not? (and how is that an important plot point?) Why do we need details about the authors? There is a link there that people can follow if they are interested!
Me: The OMAC attack on Themyscira intensifies, Wonder Woman realizes that Brother Eye is broadcasting the assault across the world in order to discredit her and her nation further. Quickly diverting the OMACs away from the Amazon armies, Diana decides that her sisters must retreat. To this end, Diana calls on Athena to send Paradise Island into another dimension. Diana, however, remains behind to battle the OMACs, never able to return to her home.
ACE_ETP: The OMAC attack on Themyscira intensifies, leading the Amazons make use of a new weapon, the Purple Ray of Death. Wonder Woman orders the weapon shut down when she realizes that Brother Eye is broadcasting the assault across the world in order to discredit her and her nation further. Quickly diverting the OMACs away from the Amazon armies, Diana orders her sisters to retreat. As they gather on the shoreline of Themyscira, Diana calls on Athena to send Paradise Island into another dimension. Diana, however, remains behind to battle the OMACs, never able to return to her home.
The weapon that they use is irrelevent to the larger point that Brother eye is trying to discredit them with the attack. The amazons could be using a flying purple dildo and it's not a jot of difference to the Wiki readers understanding of the matter. Is it really relevent to the casual reader to know that the amazons "gather on the shore"? Is it a shore on a different island? 
Me: While Power Girl struggles with whether to support the cause of the returned heroes
ACE_ETP: While Power Girl struggles with whether to support the cause of the returned heroes (knowing that Earth-Two must be restored for Earth-Two's Lois Lane to live). 
The "cause" is explained elsewhere in the article - why repeat?
And on and on..
It would be nice to get feedback from others before we end up going backwards and forwards in regards to revisions
--Charlesknight 21:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Both versions make sense. I prefer the trimmed version, though. "Successful" -- trim that fat. Naming Wolfman -- anyone who wants to know who wrote Crisis on Infinite Earths can follow the link to its article. And so on. And yes, cut the repetition. Wryspy 22:35, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I prefer Charlesknight's version. Things like the idiotic "Purple Death Ray" amount to nothing in the plot and can be excised to further summarize the plot. We're supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a substitute for reading the comics. Removal of redundancy is also encouraged. ' (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 22:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: '''''(Countdown to :P)''''' revision war