Talk:Argentina/Archive 6

message: Why?? Most sources unofficial sources estinate the same i put two sources Why were they deleted????????????
And why was deleted the information about the african illegal aliens?? There were sources.  According to the government an african arrive everyday to Buenos Aires....
Because its not offical, thats why it was deleted. And no You must have misread the article , the article says that there were two Africans found on a ship and then Deported. This is completely different from what you stated before.
So? I said that unofficial surces cited that number several souces in fact. 
And i wasn't speaking about another article.
Its not offical theres no need for what MSN thinks about the subject.
They are not from msn!! They are unofficial (not from the government) stadistics.  They are in Clarin and Newsweek and some other sites.
::Hi. I know the guy from Newsweek, he's only 21 years old and probably just took the Clarin statistic.--Damifb 23:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are the unofficial estimations of illegal aliens deleted 

message: The temperature of 51ºC recorded at Bahia Blanca is false! This year reached a maximum of 40ºC, not 51ºC. The true record high is 49.1ºC at Villa de María. http://www.meteonet.com.ar/?mod=biblioteca&id=94 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.122.117.46 (talk) 19:53, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Climate

message: Does this threat make any sense at all? User:Ejrrjs  says What? 21:15, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the English is terrible, and it has nothing to do with Wikipedia policy.  Please see my comment above to such threat.--Diegou 05:31, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anyone who reverts this change are breaking 3RR and NPOV, will be reported) 

message: Argentines is both the Noun and Adjective form in English. Check here for the Dictionary defenition: 
"–noun 1. a native or inhabitant of Argentina.  
2. Argentina (usually prec. by the): They vacationed in the Argentine.  
–adjective 3. of or pertaining to Argentina."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Argentine 
Althought you can use Argentinian, it is more correct and proper to use Argentine. The word ends in a -tine like Florentine.(XGustaX 00:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Argentines 

message: Why is it not mention in this article.  There are 2 million black argentinans.
"Hay casi dos millones de afrodescendientes en el país 
Miriam Gomes, vicepresidenta de la Sociedad Caboverdeana Argentina "
He is say there are two million blacks in the country
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/specials/2007/esclavitud/newsid_6455000/6455537.stm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dualldual (talk • contribs) 02:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He says there are 2 million afrodescendientes in the country, meaning "of African descent". I don't know why this hasn't shown up in the data, perhaps the people have only a small amount of black ancestry, or otherwise don't consider themselves black.--Cúchullain t/c 06:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I would also be interested in hearing about this genetic test. I'm all for including the info on African descent in Argentina, but it looks like they don't consider themselves a separate ethnic group. If you want to include the info, you should find a source in English (Wikipedia:Attribution#Language) if possible; this is the English Wikipedia after all. Also be sure to be clear in your wording; saying 2% of Argentinians have black ancestors is different than saying 2% of Argentina is black. Saying otherwise comes treacherously close to the one-drop theory.--Cúchullain t/c 06:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Argentinas black population 

message: I've just updated the figures and quoted the official source (an INDEC press release of June 29, 2006). Please take into account that the "Encuesta Complementaria de Pueblos Indígenas" is still in process, therefore the figure could be a little higher. --Cinabrium 19:45, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The indigenous population should be prioritized in the Minority section. Irrer 09:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Indigenous population

message: Why does someone insist on reverting the edits to this section without substantiation? What is wrong with the statement that Argentina's white population "may be as high as 97%" depending on the source? In reality we all know it is lower- probably around 90%. Look at the facts... there are 3% indigenous and at least as many mestizo (possibly as high as 10%). It is still mostly "white" and "european". Also, no, Chile is not overwhelmingly "white" as someone keeps insisting- it is overwhelmingly mestizo. And again, what is wrong with that??? Mariokempes 18:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: XGustaX, mind the tone of your answers. You are only seeing the figures of sources you choose to see, ignoring the rest. The number of white people in Argentina is not all that clear, and that situation must be reflected in the article. --Mariano(t/c) 14:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

text: XGustaX.... I apologize. I didn't realize you had a monopoly on the encyclopedic facts presented in this article. Why did you you revert my unbiased improvements to the demography section? I didn't change anything other than improve the English- which now again looks like a high school student paper and not an encyclopedia. I also cleared up some misleading statements- which are now back in glorious, matter-of-fact form. What's up??? Mariokempes 00:24, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I was rude... and for that I apologize. As for "white", that is the term your own reference uses. This is not the same as European. White includes arabs, which according to the article make up about 3% of the population. Arabs are not European, so if you want to say European, the total is 94%. This is also debateable since there is the issue of the terminology used in the Argentine census- as Pablo clearly and eloquently stated above. As for the other changes- I was only improving the English and intent. For example, you really mean "most" other Latin American countries, not "many". People go "to" a place, not "in" a place. If you revisit what I did, you will see that I didn't really change anything other than make it more like an encyclopedia and less like a series of casual comments. Some statements need a reference, so I added a tag... I didn't delete the comment. I'm sorry for being so blunt, but Wikipedia is a collective medium, and I didn't appreciate the immediate reverts (to what are truly only improvements on what was already there) without at least some meaningful discussion. Mariokempes 04:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The article clearly says there are 1m levantine arab speakers (under the languages heading) and this is supported by a reference to Ethnologue. That makes 3% (OK, actually 2.6 or so). I am pretty sure these arab speakers are not ethnic Spaniards or Italians. As for what Pablo was saying, I think you need to re-read his statements. Also, don't "brush off" what I said as just grammar. It's also about being clear and not providing misleading information. If this article is to become a serious reference, it needs to be completely unbiased. To conclude, I am pretty sure the last two posts are by the same person... I will no longer contribute from hereon. Mariokempes 19:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Dear XGustaX, 64.132.0.250, and 24.60.175.168: I really don't know where you are coming from... First, I was no longer rude (although you really test me!). Second, Ethnologue is hardly an unauthoritative source. Third, you obviously have a personal agenda (and it's not well hidden, I might add). I'm going to kick myself for saying this, but... let's assume the number of ethnic arabs in Argentina is "only" 600,000 (as you suggest; the source still maintains over 1m), that is still a huge amount and it still represents 2% of the "white" population. Anyways, I already told you I will no longer contribute to the article, and from now on I will stay away from the Talk page as well. This is really not worth the effort. Mariokempes 20:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

text: OK, I can't help myself. If Wikipedia is going to become everything that it should, we cannot let ourselves be stifled by indifference... Los Medios y Mercados de Latinoamérica published the following for Argentina in 1998: White 89%, Black 0%, Indigenous 1%,  Mulatto 1%,  Mestizo 6%, Asian 0%, Don't Know 4% (the 0%, by the way, is not absolute). see [] This doesn't even consider what is "white" for, as I said above, white does not mean European! The point I wish to make is there are many different viewpoints relating to the ethnic composition of Argentina, and this needs to be reflected in the article. I welcome meaningful insight and debate before I make any changes to the article! Mariokempes 20:56, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

text: XGustaX... Look, I know we started off on the wrong foot and I don't know why you are being so rigid (and bitter). All I am saying is that there are varying opinions by authoritative entities on this point. OK, you cite the census, but as pointed out by others on these pages, it too has some problems. What is wrong with saying "Argentina's white population may be as high as 97% depending on the source"? This is more accurate. This does not imply you are wrong, only that there is some room for reputable opinion. I don't understand why this ruffles you feathers!! Even Europe is no longer 97% European. I'd like to hear from others on this (XGusta- there is another aspect to this discussion on your Talk page). Mariokempes 16:09, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Ethnicity is a very complicated issue, and I happen to disagree with the result of this discussion. For starters, demographic statistics are not perfect, and are based on people's responses. The census in Argentina, in terms of ethnicity, was based simply on self-ascription: that is, they asked the individuals whether they consider themselves Mestizo, Amerindian or of European ancestry. Needless to say, very few individuals self-ascribe as Mestizo and Amerindian. Genetic studies and their finding reports, which suggest a 56% of the population with some Amerindian ancestry, are blatantly ignored in this article, even though they are included in :es:Argentina and :es:Composición étnica de Argentina, all properly referenced, which suggests the information presented here in the English Wikipedia is bordering on WP:POV. If this is a contentious issue that is discussed ad nauseum, then I propose that we Request for Arbitration so that all arguments, fully referenced, are presented to stand scrutiny by external editors to suggest and unbiased conclusion in this particular matter. --the Dúnadan 04:53, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

text: It is an issue, because I disagree with the solution that has been imposed so far. --the Dúnadan 00:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Dúnadan. This article has been POV for far too long. Mariokempes 19:10, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, then I am Requesting for Arbitration. I will let you know about the process, and how every concerned editor can participate. --the Dúnadan 00:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics 

message: Hi everybody, the IMF recently changed the GDP per capita PPP for Argentina in their April 2007 report. The IMF has adjusted the figure to $15,937 at PPP and the GDP at PPP has been changed $621,070. They report the economy grew 8.5% during 2006. I suggest that the figures on this page be updated.
Ok, Thanks I will update the page right now. I will try to find source, thanks again for your contributions.(XGustaX 13:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Economic Update

message: Around 93% declare themselves Roman Catholic according to different surveys, though most are not practicing; the Church estimates an affiliation of 70%.[43][44] 
What do other sources estimate?
According to the Constitution, the Argentine government should support Roman Catholicism. However, this does not imply that it is the official religion of the Argentine Republic, nor does it imply that people working in the government should have this faith.
Evangelical churches have gained a foothold in Argentina since the 1980s, and their followers now number more than 3.5 million, about 10% of the total population. 
Traditional Protestant communities are present in most communities.
These should be cited.  
The Anglican Church of Argentina http://www.anglicancommunion.org/tour/diocese.cfm?Idind=534
The Presbyterian Church of Argentina, The Methodist Church of Argentina, etc..
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) number over 330,300, the seventh-largest concentration in the world[45]
The country also hosts the largest Jewish population in all of Latin America, about 2 percent of the population.[46]
Islam in Argentina constitutes approximately 1.5% of the population, or an estimated 500,000-600,000 (93% Sunni).[47] Argentina is also home to one of the largest mosques in Latin America, serving Argentina's Muslim community.
Approximately 7% of Argentines can be considered non-religious or secular.
:Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints now number over 350,000 per this lds.org website newsroom page.  The page is protected so I cannot update the information.  Will somebody please update?  Thanks, Alanraywiki 17:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Religion

message: Is it really fair on our Argentine friends to allude to the matter of their claim on the Falkland Islands in the very first part of the article? With respect, to mention Argentina's Antarctic claims in this first part seems silly and patronising - it is surely as small a matter to them as it is to anyone else. It should be way down in the article. Imagine if the United Kingdom article started off by laying out her Antarctic claims? I'd like to change it... Regards to all 195.137.96.79 01:35, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claims etc. 

message: This page has been protected because of the continuous addition and removal of the link to White Latin American. Protection does not imply endorsement of the current version. The parties involved should discuss the matter in this talk page. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 11:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am unaware of the edit war of adding and removing the link to White Latin American. I rewrote the introduction to the Demographic section to include all different points of view and research results fully verifiable with proper sources. I don't oppose the recent copy/edit by which the link to White Latin American was added. The link seems appropriate. The neutrality of the content (instead of endorsing a single version and ignoring/disregarding other important sources/researches) was my main concern. --the Dúnadan 00:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: The oft-quoted 500,000 figure was about 2% of the 25,000,000 population figure in the early 1970s. But that figure was controversial in itself. Now, the current estimate for Jewish population in Argentina is 185 to 250 thousand:  (see also Jewish population), which makes about half a percent of the total population.
The decline in Jewish population is due to three factors: emigration (to Israel, the USA, and other countries), low natality rate, and leaving the community due to marriage outside of the faith or other reasons. elpincha 12:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the clarification. Bakersville 19:43, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of Jews in Argentina 

message: I've protected the page. For what it's worth, I haven't even looked at the current version. To avoid a conflict of interests, I won't participate in the discussion except as a last-resort moderator. I'm extremely fed up with this topic being the source of edit wars when it has been previously discussed ad nauseam.
Anonymous editors cannot be forbidden to participate in any discussion, but the common tendency among many users (including me) is discounting their opinions if it looks like they just logged in and posted a few lines without reading the whole discussion, or if they seem to be someone's sockpuppets.
Everybody, please sign and date your posts, reply in order and using an additional level of indent, and justify your ideas using the appropriate Wikipedia policies. I don't care if you have never done that before — get used to it. It's basic Wiki etiquette and you can't coordinate a discussion without that.
Don't attack the other editors. Don't deride other editors' opinions. If you disagree, be respectful. I will not hesitate to enforce the policies of civility and against personal attacks. 
The protection will be kept until a consensus version has been reached. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 11:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Any idea on how long this page is going to be protected?  There are other aspects of this relatively long article that could use some editing. Thanks. Qqqqqq 17:06, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full protection 

message: I know the page is protected, but can someone go in and fix the reference notes?  The last few dozen notes are bunched up under note 39, making it very difficult to determine the sources.  Alanraywiki 23:08, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 23:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference Notes

message: I've had to remove two links to the website of the Puerto Rican Independence Party (www.independencia.net), used as the source of claims that the government of Argentina had passed resolutions demanding the self-determination of Puerto Rico. The domain independencia.net is banned as spam by the Wikipedia filters. I'm not sure why this is, but I did check other places. There's no clear indication that Argentina has supported the "independence" (as it was written) of Puerto Rico. There was a draft resolution presented to the Chamber of Deputies, but I couldn't find confirmation that the draft was actually approved and passed, least of all "unanimously" as the text claimed. Major Argentine media sources of both the left and the right haven't mentioned it either. The claim has been removed completely; if you find suitable independently-produced evidence, please excuse this and restore it. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 23:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Independencia.net

message: I just noticed that Alberto Fernández is listed as Premier.  As a matter of fact, the position he holds is "Jefe de Gabinete de Ministros" or Chief of the Cabinet of Ministers. Nachocorreas 16:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Premier 

message: I have substituted the metropolitan area populatioon in 2001 per the Argentine census bureau. The previous entry indicated that the metropolitan area included the city of BA and the state of BA, for a total metro pop of about 19m. This is absurd. A metropolitan area is a labor market area. That means that there is significant commuting to work between locations within the area. The state of BA covers 300,000 square km... more than the state of Arizona. This is far too large to be a metropolitan area. INDEC, the Argentine census bureau placed the 2001 population at around 11m. It includes the city of BA and 24 municipalities in the state of BA. I am sorry that I did not have 2005 data to make it correspond to the rest of the table (which I did not review), however, the BA data was so misleading as to make inconsistent years a small problem relative to what was there before...
: Demographia (Wendell Cox) 2007.09.08  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Demographia (talk • contribs) 18:26, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  well bro, the metro area, considering buenos aires and their neighbouring partidos, it's in reallity really close to 19-18 million...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.32.56.2 (talk) 05:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buenos Aires metropolitan area 

message: Hello I am an argentinian living in mexico since 1993 and I wanted to know if the arg. government has the exact figures of argentinian citizens living in each country outside Argentina. I am very interested in creating a separated article about this thank you if anybody wants to help it would be great.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by QneB (talk • contribs) 18:28, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Argentinians outside the country 

message: For those interested in the naming scheme of articles about departements and districts, please see a question/problem (involving at least the homonymous districts of "Mundo Nuevo" in Junín Department, Mendoza and Rivadavia Department, Mendoza, possibly more) opened at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Argentina#Help request for district naming scheme. Thanks. — Komusou talk @ 17:40, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: THIS PAGE (THE MAIN PAGE ON ARGENTINA) HAS BEEN VANDALIZED. Landrumkelly 18:30, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help request for district naming scheme 

message: Could someone clean up the references a bit? Use citation templates like Template:cite book, Template:cite web, Template:cite encyclopedia, etc. Thanks.   →  ( • ) 16:07, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup