Talk:MDS America/Archive 2

message: I'm removing the Legal History section. It appears to discuss a patent disagreement with some small company, and having half the article about it appears to be undue weight. Please cite major stories in mainstream news sources confirming the importance of any legal case. Thanks! Weregerbil 12:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So can this information and its significance be verified using reliable sources, as required by Wikipedia policy? Weregerbil 12:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Legal History" section

message: This article seems to have similar problems as those appearing in the MDS International article.  There are multiple instances of opinions about cases only having the actual court documents cited.  The New York Times article briefly references the MVDDS technology itself and discusses Northpoint in detail but doesn't back up anything in the Technology section its being cited for.  Also the statement This court case and subsequent invalidation of Northpoint's patents opened the way for the free licensure of MVDDS spectrum.  is supposedly backed by the Internetnews article, but while the article talks about free licensing for providers who use satellite, it never mentions invalidating patents - which is a rather extreme claim.  The entire Appeal subsection is referenced to a document which no longer exists - since the reference contains nothing more than a url, its incredibly difficult to verify whether or not this information is correct.
In short, the article needs to correctly cite secondary sources and preferably give complete citations for them instead of the abbreviated references being used or a great deal of text needs to be removed. Shell babelfish 22:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for providing the reference, as requested.  Please note that it is the responsibility of the party adding information to properly source their additions and that any editor has the ability to ask for sources for information, particularly when those claims are out of the ordinary or potentially harmful to the subject if untrue.  Please see WP:ATT for our policies on sourcing. Shell babelfish 20:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Serious referencing problem

message: The outcome of the patent case described in this article started an entire industry and was covered extensively in the telecom press. Could the author of this article please place more references in the article as well as fill in some detail as to the case? Thanks64.195.223.68 18:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Information 

message: Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MDS International (2nd nomination). I also put notices of the WP:AFD at WP:AN/I and WP:COIN. You are welcome to join the deletion discussion and give your opinion. If you can log in before participating, your vote will carry more weight, under the policy of WP:AFD (search for 'unregistered' in that page). Your reasons and arguments will be carefully considered regardless of whether you have a logged-in account. If you are an employee of MDS America or MDS International, or have an affiliation with either one, mentioning that in your comment would help to reduce any concerns about conflict of interest.
At this time there is no proposal to delete the article on MDS America, as the activities here have not led to any legal threats. EdJohnston 01:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[MDS International]] has been nominated for deletion 

message: MDSinternational article are full build by Harold Kirpatrick CEO of MDSAmerica itself without the permission of Hypercable MDSinternational and only to make lies against this company. Thanks to not Delete MDSAmerica this are a good page and a good tribune to said the right about  this guys.
ALSO 
TCPip Assymetrical system  use from satellite to ground with Telco return way are a standard in use long time before the Fabrice genious inventor of the HotWater leave the French army!!
MDSAmerica invent the best way to use the Al Fawares funds to make smoke and noise, no more83.206.63.250 22:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Great Thanks for deletion

message: This is a general hello to some of the anonymous posters on this Talk page. The page should not be used as a forum for general discussion of the company. It is specifically for recommending article changes. Any changes you wish to propose should be backed up by reliable sources.  If you feel that information about Sheikh Al-Khalifa should be in Wikipedia, then you should draft it up in the form that you think correct and propose it, here on the Talk page. I assume that Sheikh Al-Khalifa must have been written up in business publications, so you should be able to find references for him.  The link to the Arab Times provided above does not open for me, and the second link is to a regular web site, not a recognized publication. It is not clear that either reference mentions his connection to MDS. It seems you must be writing here to refute some kind of a rumor about him, but I'm sorry I don't know what that rumor is. It is probable that we will have to leave all mention of the rumor out of this article, because we know so little about it. EdJohnston 00:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Arab Times link looks like it could be a letter to the editor, it doesn't seem to be a full news story. Is the complete story available anywhere else?  And where can we find the contempt of court thing; I saw it once as a link to a PDF file but the archives are full of strange stuff and I don't know where it is now. EdJohnston 00:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ed, Look at all of the Day by Day articles, every day they are all written by Metar. He is a political columnist for Kuwait in the Arab TImes. 72.19.4.235 14:30, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the pointer. But while I'm here, I note that Wikipedia does not currently have an article on Sheikh Al-Khalifa, if I am not mistaken.  If you are concerned about dispelling rumors about him, perhaps you could collect some reliable sources for us that could eventually go into a biographical article about him?  Or you could begin writing the article yourself, perhaps asking for input here to be sure it is neutral. EdJohnston 15:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dear editors, we await your proposed changes

message: From a discussion on my talk page with 65.2.150.213 (and clarified a bit):
After more review, I changed the tag to a POV one. There is no incorrect fact there that I can tell, but I do feel that the article portrays MDSA in a somewhat preferential light. The statement "MDSA's innovative technology is a high-speed...(MVDDS) system created by MDSAmerica" seems to associate the technology's origins too closely with them. The phrase "Northpoint Technology Ltd., a company set up primarily to lobby the FCC and Congress for free RF spectrum" is very dismissive. The quote from Mr. Kreig appears inappropriately right in the lead. The sentence "The unique design of the transmitters and antennas facilitates an exceptionally pure radio frequency signal that allows transmission of video and data at very high speeds over long distances. " sounds scripted. nadav 03:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV tag

message: I've created an archive for the discussions here.  I propose all discussions not relevant to the article, or otherwise not appropriate per WP:TALK be moved to the archive so we aren't distracted.  I propose the following sections be moved:
*More Information about the owner company
*Clean funds or not Clean funds
*Looks like clean funds to me
--Ronz 01:39, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've move them to the archive along with two others that I also suggested should be moved. --Ronz 21:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive created

message: Now that the MDS International article has become a redirect to MVDDS dispute, I think it is only proper that this page be too.  No secondary source I found about the company, and I have done an extensive review in the course of the  MDSI debate and in writing MVDDS dispute, has mentioned the company outside the context of the Northpoint Technology story. Moreover, all the sources indicated MDS America was the North American licensee of MDS International.  Representatives of MDSA say the status has changed, and the contempt of court order does indicate the companies are no longer on friendly terms. However, I still haven't seen anything indicating that the hypercable technology is not sold outside the US by MDS International. Indeed, see SCTV's news release (uploaded 01-Feb-2007). nadav 19:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I beleive the article will still need to go through a regular AFD reguardless, in which case discussion will take place there, I suggest going ahead and starting the AFD. Russeasby 19:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why AfD?  Just merge and redirect. --Ronz 20:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

text: merges don't need Afd. I'll wait a little before doing this, though. nadav 20:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merges don't need an Afd unless they are controversial. I'm not sure what the official definition of controversial is, but I don't think it's appropriate to have no entry at all for a company which, for example, owns 500MHz of spectrum across 1/3 of the US. MDS has the largest number of MVDDS DMAs in the US - that's spectrum that was purchased at auction. That alone is a reason that, IMHO, it would be inappropriate to remove the MDSA article without some serious discussion. Bhimaji 20:36, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The correct procedure for controversial merges is discussion on the talk page (which should be at MVDDS dispute since the templates post there) as well as listing on Wikipedia:Proposed mergers, which I have done. See WP:MERGE for more. nadav 22:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merge

message: When I served as President and CEO for RapidWave Inc I receive near than one million US dollars from the team of Donors Kirk S.Ali Al Fawares and I testify in court. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.160.95.1 (talk) 06:57, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am unable to understand your comments. I think it will be easier if you just wrote in French, and I will find a way to translate. Thank you, nadav 07:15, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Testimony

message: The only Ex-CEO of Rapidwave is in California. This IP originates in Taluyers France (MDSI) and I believe is a sockpuppet of Jeanclauduc. . 65.2.198.147 09:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sockpuppet 

message: I have reverted obvious vandalism by Jean-Claude Ducasse. Please look at what was reverted before calling this "edit war" 09:41, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ronz, thanks for keeping up with this. We should not allow potentially defamatory material to remain on the Talk page unless reliable sources are provided.  Asking for blocks at WP:AN/I per legal threats is something to be considered. EdJohnston 15:31, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually the above was posted by me. I don't understand why someone put it as RONZ. However, I tried before to remove this garbage and was chided for this. I thins all of  this extraneous garbage should be removed immediately. 76.109.17.236 15:56, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that wasn't me.  I've fixed the signature.  I think we should be cautious about removing comments from here. --Ronz 16:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, let's have a consensus to leave the Talk comments for now. Unsourced changes to the article itself should still be reverted. EdJohnston 18:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert changes 

message: User IPTVdev of course are again a member of MDSAmerica probably my past son ! Previously named Fabrice and now Abdallah with a new father the Shaick Ali Khalifa Al Sabah Owner of Al Fawares and Irak Rebuilder with the US Pentagon funds.
It is more comfortable to have a new father with Billions of Dollars than to have an old and poor worker father! Also do you think seriously that inside WHOIS you can see the name of the company using this IP adress "62.160.95.1"  ? We have and we work still on the same adress and I sign what I said I am not same my past son a liard and a dishonest stealing the poor to give to the rich.83.206.63.250 15:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No affiliation at all. Just someone who used to work a lot with Xingtech products. --IPTVdev 15:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: It's true that Jean-Claude re-stated the piracy charge in his own comment above. I don't think he believes that the charge is true. I believe he is upset that the Xingtech charge keeps being repeated, and he believes that MDSA is circulating the charge. From Wikipedia's point of view, since no reliable source asserts that MDSA is the source of the rumor, our work is done, and we don't need to keep investigating who might have submitted it to our Talk pages. (Anonymous postings on our Talk pages are *certainly* not a reliable source). EdJohnston 16:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree entirely, the software piracy allegations are a non issue, there is no reliable source reguarding them. Simply put, any additions of them to the article pages will be removed and talk page additions will be ignored.  The way I see it the only real issue right now with this article is determining notability and if it should be merged.  Outside that, I dont see any other pressing issues. Russeasby 16:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: INCREDIBLE LIARD

message: I have fixed the link to the patent. It is assigned to MDSA, but the inventor is Jean-Claude Ducasse. Is this the patent that has been the source of so much bad-will? nadav 22:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've placed a citation needed template since I have not seen sources that support the fact that the technology was developed by MDSA. Instead, I have seen many sources that indicate it was developed by MDSI and was to be implemented in America by MDSA. nadav 22:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patent 

message: This patent assigned to MDSA "invented by myself" are not made by myself, this are false documents made by MDSAmerica using some old  advertising (2001) from our company and I never receive one penny for this, and all of this  are a stupid patent diagram and speach are full false.We have nothing to do with this stupid document and nobody worldwide can use this.
MORE This process described are  stupid and cannot work also the diagrams inside are take from old advertised pictures from VISIOSAT french Companies and the soft inside the Set top Box are propiétary of Thomson Multimedia and from Pace. I can produce the original documents and contracts long long time ago before this " Cretin .fr patent".
I have made another inventions with  patents assigned to various companies such as Comera or Hypercable or Thales or Bluwan but never for MDSAmerica and we do not have any dispute with any for this stupid patent with no potential applications worldwide !  83.206.63.250 15:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Jean-Claude just admitted to purposely lying on a patent application, a Federal Document. There is a perjury admonition on this document. I believe this is a crime. I will investigate. 76.109.17.236 21:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Patent or no Patent

message: I would like to propose that this article be propose for deletion.  An AFD exposes this article to a wider audience to gain consensus on notability then the current merger suggestion.  If it AFD fails then the merger issue is out, MDSA would have stood up to debate on its own right.  Certainly durring AFD the merge option would be proposed as well and consensus may be there, even if the AFD succeds, a redirect would still be warrented to MVDDS dispute.  The fact is we can discuss until blue in the face about notability and parties will still hold their respective opinions.  AFD is a very clear and easy way to settle this.  MDSA employees should not worry about this, as if the company is notable enough to warrent an article then it will remain.  Myself, and other editors who question notability, would as well stand by the results of the AFD even if it goes against our current opinions.  I would like to hear others view on this proposal (noting anyone can put up an AFD reguardless, no consensus is needed to actually start an AFD). Russeasby 04:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At this point I think it's a good idea.  We'll get outside feedback that could solve the problems here. --Ronz 21:27, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you feel it should be deleted then go ahead and do it. I'd have to see the nomination; I might support a merge..nadav 21:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposing AFD 

message: Very important talks about MDS America are removed to make a smoke screen about the real story and real business and real funds in use by MDSAmerica with the attached reliable sources, fortunately the reader can still see a copy saved inside the unremovable old article versions Revision as of 06:27, 6 May 2007 and older83.206.63.250 05:45, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk removed

message: you are Mr Harold, to change the talk by pitiful thats fine and usefull what you do and what you said!  thank you again to add REAL Network in the circuit now you have the good size partner with you and I am very happy to know now that you are "cooperating fully with Real" 
Do you think that you can MDSA  still no send emails but send emails with false names and false adressses in full impunity? I remember you said to me I can send emails to the world under the name of GOD and nobody can vever know the real sender because I ama the best hacker of the world in this matter... poor Pitbull!
My Apologies to Wikipedia for this garbage! we know now what we need to know about my distinguish son and the honorable harold and also about the means to make world lies by the way of wikipedia.83.206.63.250 06:00, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pitbull

message: I propose that NPOV editor like RONZ or ED go through and archive sections of this 'talk page" that are not regarding the improvement of the article 76.109.17.236 01:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No objection if Ronz wants to do that. I am getting used to the irrelevant interruptions, so I don't object if we simply do time-based archiving. EdJohnston 01:57, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal for Talk page clean up 

message: Fabrice Ducasse is a Liard and  stole in MDSi various products and concepts and the French Criminal court in Lyon sue this guy for Theft and Breach of Trust.!!
Again about HyperWimax www.hyperwimax.com this product and special antenna mixing KU 12 GHz and 40/43 GHz are supplied by MDSi Hypercable to Thales BluWan and another companies worldwide using Hypergate Hyperboost softwares to build instant VPN ways in assymetrical systems with dynamical adresses. The Triple Play Dual antenna exist and are produced by MDSi the softxare and systems are running with Wimpax from Alvarion or Motorola Canopy and Arraycom Wimax Mino system.
What claim MDSAMERICA made by this famous Inventor ( This Fabrice Ducasse never obtain any diploma in any school at any level with no invention more than to download from X Hard Core porn sites Gigabytes of contents !) are again a project to make an obscure copy about what MDSi do.83.206.63.250 22:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am an employee. I am not a manager. You're telling me that my employer and my co-workers have lied to me, so I am asking you if you can show me documents about what really happened. When I asked my boss about this dispute, he showed me the contempt of court ruling against MDSi; I'd like to hear your side of the story. Bhimaji 01:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fabrice the inventor of the Hot Water

message: I am the Technical manager of MDSinternational S.A. Jean-Claude is retired
from one year ago and I do not understand or know any about the "MDS System".
I provide the company Thales BluWan with Q band and KU Band Hypercable to build Triple Play networks combined with various WIMAX existing equipments using a special Triple Play CPE BluBox for this purpose. The systems name are various and depend of users some said Hyper Wimax another said Wimax ++  anothers said Fiber to air etc... the best to know all about this technology are to read on the page www.bluwan.com to understand the best of this Thales patented system. I hope this can clarify the technical subject. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.206.63.250 (talk) 07:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your response. If 'MDS System' is not correct, should we now call it the 'Thales Bluwan' system?  I was trying to find a general term that would fit both the products of MDSA and MDSI without having to say 'MVDDS', which is US-specific. That acronym means to the American FCC "terrestrial reuse of satellite spectrum from 12.2 to 12.7 GHz." You mention Q band (36-46 Ghz) and Ku band (12-18 GHz). So I'm assuming that both MDSA  and MDSI build equipment that re-uses some Ku-band spectrum already assigned to direct broadcast satellites for terrestrial use, while avoiding interference?  Is that the bottom line?  Thanks. EdJohnston 16:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So to understand this, the poster, who continually re-edited the MDS International page to reflect Jean-Claude Ducasse as "CTO" of MDSI, now claims that Jean-Claude Ducasse is retired for more than a year. The MDSI web site 1 lists Jean-Claude Ducasse as CEO of MDSI. MDS International was founded in 1986 to continue private system development by CEO Jean-Claude Ducasse.WizardOfWor 18:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: We do not know the MDS System

message: The above was written by Jean-Claude Ducasse. The only connection that HyperWiMax has with WiMax is that they are both radio based. There is no WiMax in HyperWiMax.   WizardOfWor 17:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ed, asking for real? 

message: After a short investigation the false XINGTECH.info web site are made By Mr Harris Jhosta you can see Whois for the account of MDSAmerica Harold Kirpatrick using materials supplied by Fabrice DUCASSE.
Easy to see and to understand the forgery make against Real Network against  MDSi and MDSi users and dealers.
From WHOIS:
Resultat whois pour xingtech.info
Registrant Email:XINGTECH.INFO@domainsbyproxy.com
Admin ID:GODA-230295010
Admin Name:Registration Private
Admin Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc.
Admin Street1:DomainsByProxy.com
Admin Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Scottsdale
Admin State/Province:Arizona
Admin Postal Code:85260
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:US +1 4806242599 Appeler
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:+1.4806242599
Company Name: Online Master Degrees 
Company Address: 15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353, Scottsdale, Arizona, 85260 
Company Location: United States 
Contact Phone: +14806242599 
Contact Person: Harris Jhosta 
Contact Email:  **hidden**  
Website URL: http://www.speedydegrees.com/ 
Website Title: Online Master Degrees 
Company background: Offers life experience accredited college degree and university degrees online. High school diplomas also available. 
 
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.206.63.250 (talk) 16:18, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please remove this whole section as it is in violation of WP:TALK. I would remove it myself but I do not want to violate NPOV. None of what is being written here has anything to do with improving this article. None of what is written above is true and MDSA has nothing to do with the XINGTECH.INFO site. Being that the site seems to now list the same REAL litigator that I spoke to as well as her contact number, it would seem that they know about it. 72.19.4.235 17:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've blocked 83.206.63.250 for 31 hours for adding the above diatribe to the actual article again.  Looking at his talk page, he's had many, many warnings over this. I don't want to stifle any serious discussions about the article, but I'm not seeing any of that here.  If Ronz, Ed, or nadav have a problem with this, please let me know.  I have to re-iterate nadav's comment above - This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the MDS America article.  This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.  Please take your squabble to an appropriate place; Wikipedia is NOT the place for it.  Kuru talk 19:46, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: MDSAMERICA FORGER EVIDENCES

message: Kuru, thanks for your efforts here. Please look at this just as an example.:
62.160.95.1 resolved to the MDS International network. It is being used by jeanclauduc. 
When I served as President and CEO for RapidWave Inc I receive near than one million US dollars from the team of Donors Kirk S.Ali Al Fawares and I testify in court. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.160.95.1 (talk) 06:57, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This has nothing to do with improving the article. If the article is not improved, it could be subject to deletion. nadav 07:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kuru Info 

message: Ok, let's start with the obvious.  ISSUE C indicates a problem with some of the stunningly off-topic debates here on the talk page.  Let's resolve that first, since I can already see the wheels falling off the cart.  Random back and forth accusations and in depth discussions about satellite technology are not relevant to resolving this article.  What we're looking for are references that support the content of the article, no a debate on the feasibility of the claims.  I could care less about who has what degrees and who has pictures of someone's wife.  So first step, I'd like to refactor this talk page and remove all the nonsense. Delete the crap, and archive the relevant discussions.  Start with a clean slate and keep the discussion appropriate to improving the article.  Unless there are any serious objections, I'll do this when I get back in this evening. Kuru talk 13:38, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been done once already and no one objected to the proposal for more cleanup: Last cleanup proposal. --Ronz 15:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ISSUE C: Talk page comments