Talk:Persecution of Germans

message: You should add a section for "Wikipedia" under "Specific Locales". This "free encylopedia that anyone can edit" is rife with anti-German authors and it greatly diminishes the utility of this resource. What is wrong here? Do special rules need to be crafted so that people understand that it's not okay to insult other nationalities in their articles? This is not good scholarship, and I wish that more of the fair-minded authors would take a stand against this kind of mudslinging. A person really has to try to find one article on German culture/people/history on Wikipedia that doesn't have some sort of negative slant.
:A NPOV isnt possible with Americans. And I say that, as an American. Ƿōdenhelm (talk) 11:31, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion

message: :This article title is pushing the POV 
:#prosecution of Germans was based on ethnicity 
:#it was unjust (persecution)
First paragraph is complete nonsense.
Rest of article is duplicit to Pursuit of Nazi collaborators.
I hope those reverting the redirect will fix this. 
--Wikimol 08:54, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: persecution of Germans after WII was based on ethnicity, and was very unjust. This is not an article about nurenburg, or some war crimes/war criminals, its about ethnic cleansing/violence against ethnic germans based on their ethnicity after WWII. Sam [Spade] 14:09, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Sam left me a message at my talk page about a documentary he saw that showed "a lot of horrible abuses (raping, people nailed to barns by their ears, random shootings and murders, etc...) after the war, and often against german speakers who had lived in e europe or russia prior to the war (as well as others of course)". I have heard about such things from a reliable friend but cannot present sources for it. Does anyone know more? Get-back-world-respect 23:33, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The section about Czechoslovakia refers to the article "Pursuit of Nazi collaborators". As people were expelled for their ethnicity and not based on any evidence that they had personally collaborated with the Nazis, this is not neutral. Get-back-world-respect 23:42, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Dispute

message: I do not understand the sentence "In the General Government there were ~120,000 Volksdeutsche." What does "government" mean here? Get-back-world-respect 18:20, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Even for an administration rather than a government 120,000 seems a lot to me. Get-back-world-respect 23:55, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor question

message: From the article:
The organised persecution of ethnic Germans is a historical myth invented to try to impose some sort of rationality upon the sufferings of the widely dispersed and historically divergent populations formerly found in Eastern and Central Europe.
Is there a reference for this?  Do a majority of historians support this view?
To have this statment as the first sentence in the article is, in my opinion, certainly in violation of the NPOV policy.
:Agreed.  This is, unfortunately, one of those articles which is inherently prone to POV warring.  The POV partisans -- and we have several on both sides -- tend to refuse to acknowledge that this article's scope should extend beyond the rather tedious incidents of the mid-20th century.  I have restored the introduction which was removed in November, which clearly frames this article as addressing the entire history of anti-German persecution, which includes a number of interesting and complex phenomena as discussed in the article body.  -- Visviva 09:34, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that.  I'll make sure I watch this article, and see what I can do to add some more info.  --Dextux 04:27, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: The property that belonged to Germans, German companies or the German state, was confiscated by the Polish state, along with many other properties in communist Poland. German owners, as explicitly stated by the law, were not eligible for any compensation.
Considering that after Germany conquered Poland in 1939 and all the land and property therein became de facto German property, some clarification should be made to differentiate between property legally held by German nationals/state/corporations, either in pre-1939 Poland proper or in formerly Germans lands "traded" to Poland by Stalin, and with previously Polish property that was siezed by Germans after the 1939 invasion. There is a difference between a factory in the western part of Poland that was in German hands for a seventy years, and a Polish factory taken over by a German firm in 1939. From a German point of view, at least during a war, both would be considered German property, but the distinction is rather clear. 
Also, these events did not exist in a vacuum. There was some historical context here. Some mention should probably be made that Stalin forced a redrawing of the Polish borders in 1945 which explained why a lot of formerly German lands now were situated in Poland, which made neither Poland nor Germany very happy, but neither country really had much say in the matter. Repeter 08:07, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: An anonymous user has been consistently vandalising the article with extreme POV bias, and most recently did so while still logged in as User:Space Cadet.  I'd like to address what I feel are bad-faith edits before it turns into a revert war.
*you removed the historical context and distinguishing between persecution by german, and persecution by outsiders.  You replaced it with the words "in the twentieth century"
*You then say it's important to stress there's no global conspiracy, that is unencyclopedic, nobody ever suggested there was
*you then accuse Germans of having "imaginary conspiracies and persecution complexes", and break Godwin's Law repeatedly
*you then say Germans are barbaric
*you then describe the persecutions as "well-merited justice"
*you then say they brought it on themselves by being Nazis
These are clear POV vandalism, and I will not hesitate to revert them, unless others say on this talk page that they feel your ideas have merit. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 12:53, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Molobo, I've seen your statement about the percentage of ethnic Germans in Selbstschutz many times before (Source?) but it doesn't excuse the rest of the statements. As for the rest, it is just another case of POV pushing and I'm pretty sure you know that so don't support it. Sciurinæ 17:03, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No I didn't, every thing I included in quotation-marks was a verbatim copy/paste from the main article. You know you can't really lie about these things, when there's a "Page History" feature, right? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 18:14, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

text: No problem, here is the edit you made.  Notice I said the things in quotation marks were exact quotes.  Now let's look at your edit. "Such imaginary conspiracies and persecution complexes", "the worst excesses of Nazis barbarity", "undoubtedly fled to escape well-merited justice".  From there you moved into moral relativism basically saying 'well Germans might sometimes be persecuted, but not like Jews!'.  The two are unrelated, this isn't an article about Jews, this is an article about organised persecution of ethnic Germans, as the title suggests. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 12:22, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent vandalism

message: the article is rather vague in this section. It says "Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans" were interned in camps. Growing up in Canadian schools, I had always been told that those interned were from areas of the Central Powers, for instance the said Ukrainians would probably of been from Austro-Hungarian eastern territory, and the other eastern europeans would of been Austro-Hungarian as well. Am I wrong on this? or could it be after the October Revolution they were interning the Ukrainians as fears of the Bolsheviks spreading there revolution through there immigrant populations grew.
--Jadger 22:26, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Canada Section

message: Parts of the texts are similar to Epulsion articles, which also repeat the same data in two or more articles. Some cleaning is needed.Xx236 08:24, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expulsion articles 

message: I've requested an additional source to support the claim that in 1919 the anti-German sentiment started to diminish in Britain. The only  reference given is a quote from a writer of German descent and thus he may have had a POV to express. An anti-French POV it seems. Was his view the common view in Britain as is implied in the article? A reference other than Graves is needed. 125.7.44.167 21:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthermore, Graves isn't considered an authority on this subject and the book from which the quote is taken is not a referenced scientific publication but an autobiography. Autobiographies are not a recounting of facts but a recounting of perspective. I will remove the quote if it remains unsupported by other references. 125.7.44.167 12:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robert Graves