Talk:IP over Avian Carriers

message: :In its current state, tI think there can be no confusion. In any case, this is an editing matter, not one for speedy deletion. DGG 08:28, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: speedy

message: If IP is used, a large TCP window would be useful. (j.engelh 21:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It might also be desireable to use a larger MTU than the original implementation's 150. --Nibios 16:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup (1500). Problem is, IIRC, that the MSS can only be 64K max :-/ -j.engelh  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jengelh (talk • contribs) 15:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Of course they'd take Internet Protocol 

message: The article shouldn't treat the subject seriously, because it wasn't intended seriously. I'm editing the intro to reflect this. Chris Cunningham 11:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone 

message: How about equipping the pigeons with a couple of USB-keys? Say one 4gb dongle for each leg!
8 gb delivered in 6000 secs is a competitive bandwidth.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.47.71.253 (talk) 14:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That wouldn't really implement the IP protocol. It'd be a modification of it.--Marhawkman (talk) 22:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And the 55% media loss would be crippling. The system would need some heavy redundancy built in to provide anything resembling reliable transition. Plasticup T/C 05:26, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no guarantee of 55% media loss. The webpage put up by the Bergen guys explains the packet loss proble as involving pigeons that were distracted by fraternizing with wild pigeons. They eventually did what they were supposed to. in an environment with no wild pigeos this would be much less of a problem.--Marhawkman (talk) 08:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  USB keys and pigeons =) 

message: Anyone know what happened to the pidgeons that didn't arrive? Are there any comments on the expense of pigeons as the transfer medium? 55% media faliure per transfer would be bad if it happened to anything else :D SirEelBiscuits (talk) 09:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No one knows. All I know is that they were never seen again.--Marhawkman (talk) 11:51, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Er... LOL. Sorry! 125.21.243.66 (talk) 13:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Think of the pidgeons! 

message: Hungry Beast is an Australian television programme. The show is a half-hour, structured as a cross between a current-affairs program and a sketch comedy show. The presenters were given a single editorial instruction: "tell us something we don't know".
Hungry Beast decided to test Australia's internet coverage after the PM suggested that the opposition's policy on the national broadband network is akin to having Australians communicate by carrier pigeon. Marc would try to send data over the net, Dan would drive it there himself, and Chris... well Chris had a pigeon by the name of Margaret in his corner.
Hungry Beast - The Great Pigeon Race  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slark (talk • contribs) 23:01, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: sean olley?  minor problem.... Only aussies can watch the newsbyte.--Marhawkman (talk) 17:00, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hungry Beast - The Great Pigeon Race 

message: Here  is another recent article about using pigeons to transfer bulk amounts of data, in this case video data. — Loadmaster (talk) 01:46, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and added the link to the article. — Loadmaster (talk) 23:10, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video data transfer 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on IP over Avian Carriers. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:05, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Many of the statements made state that the internet connection did not finish the races and "had to be restarted". As this was a very common problem back in the early days of the internet due to dial up using often unreliable analogue telephone lines, software solutions were quickly created to combat this, eg by allowing one to resume download without having to discard all (some might still be discarded) progress made before. For example a modern torrent file sharing client can be stopped and resumed on whim, with at most a few currently downloading chunks/fragments being lost. For file downloads from the internet "download accelerators" existed long before torrent, at least as far back as the 1998 which was when I first experienced them in use downloading "large" files over dialup over several days of non-continuous operation to take advantage of off peek connection rates.
To me it sounds like many of these race tests were made by people who either were ignorant of such technologies or who purposely did not know them to handicap the outcome of the races. I am aware this is meant to be a silly article as the entire concept of IP over carrier pigeon was originally a joke, however in my opinion a disclaimer should be made referencing that the results of the race were potentially biased against the internet connection to emphasize just how slow or unreliable it was, for example deliberately restarting a transfer from the beginning instead of resuming it even though it likely would have still lost the race against the carrier pigeons in the end.
I hate slow internet speeds as much as everyone else and fully support the arguments of how bad the connections were that the people made. But honestly this looks a bit under handed to me, and similar results could easily be obtained from very good internet connections given enough user bias.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.147.103.78 (talk) 19:08, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article shows bias during the races? 

message: Satire Site
National Carrier Pigeon Network Launched To Compete With NBN
https://www.betootaadvocate.com/advocate-in-focus/national-carrier-pigeon-network-launched-to-compete-with-nbn/
202.53.38.109 (talk) 02:29, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Media Articles relevant to topic 

message: The example used (in the lead no less!) is entirely frivolous, and "in" on the joke. Either establish relevance or take it out, please. CapnZapp (talk) 16:57, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone 

message: It might be appropriate to use 1.1.1.1 DNS queries over Telegram to resolve IP addresses for IPoAC? See https://twitter.com/jgrahamc/status/1144272344803946496?s=19
76.10.141.7 (talk) 15:20, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  DNS 

message: The photo is irrelevant and potentially upsetting on an otherwise humorous page. I've seen it added/removed a number of times (with IP editors reverting - no discussion). I've removed it and don't see a reason to bring it back (despite a few reasons to keep it off). Before readding please discuss here. Thank you. Arzg (talk) 01:15, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The dead bird is intended to be funny. The RFC is intended to be funny. Seems like a good fit to me. The arguments that it should be removed because it is shocking or because death is offtopic don't hold much water with me. I don't know what kind of compromise we're trying to strike with the artistic expression version, but I prefer the photograph because it's actually a pigeon. ~Kvng (talk) 12:23, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

text: I would argue the photo is illustrating, "Unintentional encapsulation in hawks has been known to occur, with decapsulation being messy and the packets mangled."RFC 2549 p.3 While there is no requirement an article about a funny topic be funny, there's also AFAIK nothing prohibiting or discouraging this. Dry morbid humor is not uncommon in academic publications. ~Kvng (talk) 18:15, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw that line, and interpreted it as referring to hawks eating the packet off of their own leg, producing a pellet -- thus a "capsule". I don't see how it related to birds dying... Timeroot (talk) 18:32, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I interpreted it as hawks eating (encapsulating) the pigeon followed by a poop reference (messy decapsulation). The pigeon definitely does not survive. ~Kvng (talk) 18:37, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

text: As a reader, seeing the pigeon photo with its description immediately clarified what "packet loss" includes, and that damage to the physical data layer (the pigeon) is a consideration. 2601:600:9500:286:60FE:321A:D399:B9E9 (talk) 22:26, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

text: No, use 4chan or whatever for silly image memes. Johnuniq (talk) 22:26, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The image probably made me laugh out loud at a Wikipedia article for the first time ever, it should definitely be kept. Its not gory and people usually dont have the strongest emotional attachment to pigeons anyway. jonas (talk) 23:14, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This ^^^^.  Especially the pigeons that practice their clog-dancing routines three feet above my head at first light every day because some local halfwit is feeding them.  Mr Larrington (talk) 19:22, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

text: It's clever - Packet loss, dead pigeon, but which one of the bullet points does this image support? Dead by disease or another bird of prey? Those are the two possible options and it supports neither directly. And again, comedic value, as another editor also pointed out, is not an argument. Eik Corell (talk) 14:48, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: How about both, indirectly - two birds one photo. Sure, comedic value is not a good reason to keep or remove the photo but neither is reports of upset readers. ~Kvng (talk) 02:52, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Frankly, I'm not sure why nobody has simply considered including an image of a particularly mean looking hawk. 192.77.12.11 (talk) 11:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead bird photo 

message: The information carried by the bird cannot be copied as far as I understand it (making multicast impossible) and reading the letter changes the bird's behaviour, so would it be possible to transmit qubits with IPoAC to establish a quantum channel? Hybrid Dog (talk) 19:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transmission of quantum information 

message: Should an image of a dead pigeon be used to illustrate packet loss? Johnuniq (talk) 08:20, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC on image of a dead pigeon 

message: I will express an opinion on this but have meanwhile fully protected the article due to the ongoing slow edit war. The image that has been added/removed since its first addition which I think was on 25 November 2016. A different image in the same style was on 23 March 2017. The most recent six edits have involved removal/addition of the image which can be seen at IP over Avian Carriers#Risks (permalink). An earlier discussion is at #Dead bird photo above. Johnuniq (talk) 08:20, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Background 

message: *Delete the photo and the whole Risks section. The section is mostly a synthesis of primary sources that are themselves unreliable. The RFCs are informational and/or experimental and none have made it to the standards track. The one secondary source on H5N1 looks like an unreliable blog post. The photo is of a random dead bird, not demonstrated packet loss from an attempted implementation of the protocol. None of the sources cited have such a photo. Should we start adding random pictures of broken wires or dead network admins to our Internet Protocol articles? I think this section is going to need better sourcing and a rewrite to survive. -- {Talk} 11:52, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey 

message: Include as another Risk the possibility of a cat-in-the-middle attack, in which cats may take down pigeons carrying datagrams:
* Occurrence of a cat-in-the-middle attack, in which cats may take down pigeons carrying datagrams.
 Wevertoncordeiro (talk) 01:18, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Actualcpscm (talk) 10:40, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2022 

message: The first line should be rewritten to as follows:
"In computer networking, IP over Avian Carriers (IPoAC), also known as "flappy disk", is a joke..." Terraffin (talk) 17:21, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2023 

message: Similar to the incidents in Other avian data transfer methods, a Washington Post team recently graphed when it makes more sense to send data by pigeon or by a typical Internet connection in each United States county: https://wapo.st/40AhOpo 168.94.245.37 (talk) 23:10, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Washington Post benchmark of pigeons vs. broadband