Talk:Lee Shelton

message: "Other sources say that black roustabouts on Mississippi River docks were called "stack o lees" as they would stack cargo on the lee side of the docks." Would that be Prof. Matilda Sources, the dyslexic folk etymologist? Why does the expression "sources say" always introduce some kind of a wild March hare? Wetman 08:05, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it has those marks. If the claim can be sourced, it could be included as an item of meta-folklore, but it would take a senior linguist staking professional reputation to make the claim itself begin to be credible. DavidOaks (talk) 17:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: "sources say..."

message: I added brief quotes from the versions sung by The Clash and Nick Cave--they seem notable in their differences from more traditional renditions.  I'm thinking that the article might work better as an article if the two earlier versions are similarly excerpted with links to full versions.
Shouldn't Stagger Lee be referred to as a folk character that may be based on an actual person?  Even if that were a settled question, it's the song character that's famous, not the 19th Century criminal. Nareek 04:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some additions and some questions 

message: Are the Lloyd Price lyrics copyrighted? If so, they can't be here under Wikipedia's copyvio rules. Same with any of the other lyrics that might be still under copyright. 23skidoo 16:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lloyd Price claimed that his lyrics were "traditional": i.e. anonymous and from the public domain, and he did not write them.  Smerdis of Tlön 17:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Right. Post 1922 US lyrics should generally not be included in Wikipedia as they would be likely to be copyright violations-- but if it is credited as "traditional", that is an exception. -- Infrogmation 17:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A brief excerpt from copyrighted lyrics for purposes of criticism or commentary is allowed under Fair Use--republishing the entire lyrics is more questionable. Nareek 19:36, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  As I understand it, attributing a copyright to "traditional" in  the US is the same as saying "no known copyright holder" and may be reproduced as the equivilent of public domain. -- Infrogmation 21:35, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright question

message: The sentence "(This version actually retakes a street "Toast" poem on Stagolee. Toasts were 'pre-rap' poems and stories especially popular among those in the "life" and among prisoners. One famous toast "Duriella DuFontane" was covered by Jimi Hendrix and members of Harlem's Last Poets")" seems unlikely to really refer to the Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds version, as implied by it's position.  It's something The Clash were much more likely to have used as inspiration, so it looks to me like the line about the Nick Cave version was added in the wrong place.  I'm not sure though, so I'm going to hold off on correcting it.  Thoughts, anyone? Eldang 22:20, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Toast" lyrics 

message: The Clash song "Wrong 'em Boyo" was a cover of a reggae song which was called "Wrong Emboyo".  What does "wrong 'em boyo" mean or what's an "emboyo"?  Please help!  Maikel 20:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Emboyo?

message: It doesn't seem to me that the 1895 article is quoted properly, either in this forum or in others. There appear to be many differing versions of this incident, all stemming from one newspaper account. Accordingly, I have sent a request to the paper archive organization for a copy of the original article. For one thing, the term "fast car" used in the quotation here is either dead wrong, or refers to an anachronism that by itself requires citation as to its meaning. SqueedlyB 10:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this fixed? I can see differences from the quotation here and the one in the references. That doesn't look good. // Magnus  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.224.178.80 (talk) 11:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 1895 St. Louis Globe-Democrat

message: The article mentioned under the heading "the crime" is entirely false.
They're lyrics written by the hardcore band Modern Life is War for a song called "Stagger Lee" which is the last track on their album Midnight in America, which was released August 21st, 2007.
Some fan must have found it entertaining, but it should be removed for historical accuracy.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.240.80.90 (talk) 20:27, August 22, 2007 (UTC) 
: Given that that part of the article was added to Wikipedia sometime before 2007 that seems unlikely. Mandoliniment (talk) 22:36, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "the crime" section 

message: This article presently combines the story of this person (and his crime) with information about the song (and its many versions) named for him. The two topics should be separated and disambiguated. There are other real persons with songs about them, for whom this is clear in WP.   I would like to hear others' views on this.  Hult041956 17:05, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two articles: the person; the song 

message: I cut this section from the article and I bring it here for discussion:
:*Stagger Lee, a graphic novel based on the story, was published by Image Comics in May 2006, written by Derek McCulloch and drawn by Shepherd Hendrix (). http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2007/February/18/style/stories/05style.htm
:*In the 2007 film Black Snake Moan, Samuel L. Jackson's character sings a boastful version of the song from Stagger Lee's perspective. This version is based on R.L. Burnside's rendition which can be heard on the album Well, Well, Well.
:*The 2004 release, Rubber Factory from The Black Keys features a song titled "Stack Shot Billy".
:*Pro wrestler Junkyard Dog used the name (and theme song) Stagger Lee to surprise his rival Ted DiBiase, returning from a "Loser Leaves Town" match under a mask during an infamous feud in Mid-South Wrestling.
:*Author and music critic Greil Marcus explicitly ties the Stagger Lee archetype to Sly Stone and his album There's a Riot Goin' On in his book Mystery Train: Images of America in Rock 'n' Roll Music.
:*Stagg R. Leigh is the assumed name under which Thelonious Ellison, the protagonist of Percival Everett's novel Erasure writes his parody of blaxploitation literature My Pafology (later changed to Fuck).
:*The St. Louis River Front Times ran a comic feature in the summer of 2007 telling the story of Stagger Lee.
Most of this is just plain irrelevant, and adds nothing of substance to the article.  The Greil Marcus reference should be greatly expanded and included in the main body of the text, in a section or subsection on "analysis" of the song and its meanings.  The references to the film Black Snake Moan and to Percival Everett's novel Erasure could also be valuable in the context of "contemporary uses" of the song and its themes.  The rest is, in my opinion, rubbish. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 15:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referenes in popular culture 

message: Not that I have a problem with unprofessional language, but isn't calling him a badass black man both needlessly colloquial and sort of ethnically stereotypical?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.176.22.47 (talk) 23:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Badass" black man? 

message: I don't own the book so can't provide exact info but I recall the early twentieth century version of this from Frank Hutchison (As "Stackalee") was named in a book by David Cantwell and Bill Friskics-Warren, entitled "Heartaches by the Number: Country Music's 500 Greatest Singles". I've linked to the Amazon entry.  GBrady (talk) 14:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Version mentioned as one of "500 greatest country songs" 

message: This Wiki article was really interesting a year or more ago. It was one of my jumping off points to a far more thorough investigation of the history of the song. This article has been dumbed down from something astounding to something sort of interesting. Part of what makes the history of this song so fascinating is how it gets retold and refashioned. It is not merely 100s of people singing the same song with the same music and same lyrics. The story surfaces in a variety of media from pornographic film to graphic novel and is so iconic it was referenced in professional wrestling. This is almost certainly the only song to have been every genre of modern music since ragtime. This song traces the history of last century of music and the article used to give some sense of that. Now it's been whittled down to dullness.
Cameason (talk) 06:33, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of this article 

message: The current name is somewhat anachronistic, as he was never known as "Stagger Lee Shelton". In his own life he was known as "Stag Lee" or "Stack Lee". Stagger Lee was corruption that came about later; the folklore accounts don't include the last name. Additionally, "Stagger Lee" isn't the only popular name in the folklore, and it isn't even the most common. Since "Lee Shelton" already redirects here, I suggest moving the page there; if there are no objections I'll perform the move.--Cúchullain t/c 22:20, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.--Cúchullain t/c 13:09, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

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thread_title:  External links modified