Talk:Francis II of France

message: His name is François. Show a little respect.
In English it's "Francis," and it's Wikipedia's policy to use the 
English version, and the "ç" creates problems with a search and doesn't find all of them, because it can be coded more than one way, and the search finds only the ones coded the same as the search entry.  -- isis
Is it the policy of Wikipedia to use English names or the English spelling. In the French Wikipedia or any publication in France, the President of the United States is George Bush. Not Georges.
:Those are two contradictory positions - if the French Wikipedia followed a comparable policy ("use French spellings not English ones"), he would indeed be listed as "Georges W Bush". Which is crazy. 81.110.86.44 06:33, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We use the spelling which is commonly used in English sources.  Sometimes this is anglicized, and sometimes it is not.  For monarchs, it tends to be anglicized, but not always.  Thus, we have Philip IV of Spain, but also Juan Carlos I of Spain.  In the last century or so, anglicization of foreign monarchs' names has become considerably less common.  But it's still around.  I'd say that Francis II is a borderline case, but I see no compelling reason to move the page. john k 06:46, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I quite agree, I was just commenting on the apparent contradiction in the previous comment. Sorry for any confusion caused :) Eventually I think we'll reach the point in English where *all* foreign monarchs are referred to by their names in the native language, as we've already reached the stage where we automatically use Louis instead of Lewis, Henri instead of Henry, Kaiser Wilhelm not Emperor William - but then we get into difficulties with the names of the Russian Czars. And foreign place names are apparently subject to completely different rules. Eh, this sort of thing tends to confuse me greatly anyway. 81.110.86.44 06:05, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: What was he known as before his grandfather's death? john k (talk) 18:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Known as... 

message: Much of the article appears to be a poor translation from French (or Italian?), complete with historic present tenses. Doesn't it deserve better? --PL (talk) 07:49, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation? 

message: There seem to be quite a few translation issues with this article, and also some factual ones.
At one point, the Guise brothers are described as foreign,   although they were French.  Did the writer assume that because they were the uncles of Queen Marie (Stuart),  they were Scottish ?  Not so.  They were her uncles because their sister Marie (Guise), a french woman,  had married the previous King of Scotland, James V, father of Marie (Stuart).Eregli bob (talk) 03:23, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The Guise were lorrains. The Duchy of Lorraine was an sovereign and independent duchy (like Scotland).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.120.206.129 (talk) 11:27, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues 

message: cleaning up the English a bit 
pretty sure the republic of Venice was not his godparent, not sure what that's a mangling of, but I took it out of the article until somebody figures it out.
 
Also there is something about entrusting the reins of government to the Guises after his arrival. Not sure what this means. After he arrived in Scotland the Guises were in charge in France? Don't know the history enough to make this clarification. Elinruby (talk) 05:25, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  translation notes 

message: "the rebel leaders that had not been arrested were at large." -- seems self-evident. Moving here instead of deleting, in case there is some point I am missing. Elinruby (talk) 16:44, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed text 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 20:53, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Francis II of France →  – Articles current location relies on an out of date assessment of where English scholarship stands as to the king's name. The same rationale would also apply for Henri II, François, Duke of Guise, Henri, Duke of Guise, François, Duke of Anjou in that per WP:COMMONNAME all these articles are out of step with modern (English language) historical literature. This is especially true for non king's with anglicised names, as it is the names of the kings that are the slowest to adjust to the changing of the tides by virtue of their stronger inertia.
Focusing for the moment on François II, let us review the historians of the period who use the non-anglicised version of his name.
* Allan Tulchin (2010) That Men would Praise the Lord: The Triumph of Protestantism in Nîmes 1530-1570 pg 58 - "One obvious explanation looks towards the perceived breakdown of royal authority once a child, François II ascended the throne"
* Vincent Pitts (2012) Henry IV of France: His Reign and Age pg 14 "The new king, François II" 
* Nancy Roelker (1996) One King One Faith: The Parlement of Paris and the Religious Reformations of the Sixteenth Century pg 243 "François II fell ill with aa severe ear infection"
* Frederic Baumgartner (1986) Change and Continuity in the French Episcopate: The Bishops and the Wars of Religion pg 37 "There is far less question about the domination of the Guises over the brief reign of François II"
* Stuart Carroll (2005) Noble Power during the French Wars of Religion: The Guise Affinity and the Catholic Cause in Normandy pg 48 "After the dauphin was crowned François II"
* Barbara Diefendorf (1991) Beneath the Cross: Catholics and Huguenots in Sixteenth-Century Paris pg 52 "Their new power at court can be seen in an increase in the number of arrests and executions for heresy during the eighteen-month reign of François II"
* Robert Knecht (2016) Hero or Tyrant? Henry III King of France pg 3 "Having already produced two children - François and Elizabeth - during Francis I's reign"
* John Salmon (1979) Society in Crisis: France in the Sixteenth Century pg 118 "The eldest son, the fifteen-year old king, François II"
* James Wood (2002) The King's army: Warfare soldiers and society during the French Wars of Religion pg 43 "If François II's penstroke"
* Robert Harding (1978) Anatomy of a Power Elite: The provincial governors of Early Modern France pg 34 "In the brief reign of François II"
* Hilary Bernstein (2004) Between Crown and Community: Politics and Civic Culture in Sixteenth-Century Poitiers pg 47 "François II for example"
* Arlette Jouanna (2016) The St Bartholomew's Day Massacre: The Mysteries of a Crime of State pg 80 "She had been in the political frontline since Henri II's death in 1559, her eldest son, François"
* Marie Seong-Hak Kim (2010) Civil Law and Civil War: Michel de L'Hôpital and the Ideals of Legal Unification in Sixteenth-Century France - "The Edict of Second Marriages promulgated under François II in July 1560"
Mark Konnert does not discuss François II, however he mentions 'François I' on pg 53 of Local Politics in the French Wars of Religion. Likewise Kevin Robbins only covers 'François I' on pg 79 of City on the Ocean Sea: La Rochelle 1530-1650
Sutherland, Benedict, Holt, Roberts, Heller do not appear to use the name François, overall he's a tougher king to get a picture of than Henri III as he reigned for such a short period, however there remains a stable and growing majority in contemporary English historiography for François. sovietblobfish (talk) 22:05, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 5 August 2023