Talk:Northern Ireland/Archive 1

message: The Page gives the impression that the Republic of Ireland has a population of 1.6 million when that population is Northern Ireland's
:Good point. I've corrected that. FearÉIREANN 23:51, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population 

message: Something is wrong with the religious affiliation table. The third and fourth column are contradictory. Are Catholics 40.3% in 2001 or 43.8%? And why are the 9.9% "other religions" (are those only "other Protestant religions"?) and the 9% "not stated" (does this mean "Protestant, but not stated which Protestant"?) added to the Protestant total in the fourth column? --Wik 19:34, Nov 2, 2003 (UTC)
:From what I can remember of the census returns, other religions are all other religions, not just christian religions, but are primarily christian. Not stated means those that refused to give a categorisation and left page blank, whether deliberately or accidentially, but the categorisation in most cases was easy to work out; many names in Northern Ireland indicate their community; Patrick O'Leary in West Belfast, for example, is 99% certain to be from the catholic community, Seymour Crawford in Lisburn 99% certain to be from the protestant community. Other questions also gave information that could clarify from which community a person who neglected to declare their categorisation belonged. There also was, if I remember correctly, a problem with the categorisation of 'Catholic' as 'catholic' can be interpreted in the Northern Ireland case as a political or religious designation, causing conflicting numbers at different parts of the census. But other questions could clarify ambiguities and work out where a non-designated person belonged. FearÉIREANN 21:05, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)
replies: text:  The differences are caused by the difference between 'religion' and 'community background'.  An unbaptised atheist is a Catholic if he's called Seamus and lives up the Falls! Gerry Lynch 17:20, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious affiliation table 

message: While undoubtedly many readers will come to this page for its political content, there are many other worthy sides to Northern Ireland which could be mentionned. The page, to me, feels quite dark and threatening. I wouldn't choose to holiday in NI after reading it! Would anyone care to mention some of the more positive things NI has to offer e.g. cultural festivals, musical and artistic tradition, tourist attractions (Bushmills, giant's causeway...), countryside, pubs and hospitality. I know a couple of these have been relegated to a list at the bottom. Maybe a separate page for NI's political history is needed?
: If you don't like the way it's written, get on there and change it.  You have a very good point, but the point of Wikipedia is that users can edit things themselves.  Gerry Lynch 17:20, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overly political? 

message: This is a controversial page, so am giving warning!  The phrase: Most Irish Catholics (of both Gaelic and Anglo-Norman origin) still support reunification, while strong studies have shown that many from the Protestant community (especially the Scotch-Irish Presbyeterian community which produced many famous Irish nationalist rebels in the pastlike Wolfe Tone, Henry Joy and Robert Emmett) are beginning to move over to the nationalist/republican side again.  Is extremely POV - most surveys indicate that there are considerably more Catholics who wish to remain part of the UK than Protestants who want to join a United Ireland, and although the proportion of the latter has fallen dramatically in the past 10 years, the proportion of the former hasn't changed and remains tiny.  (see just about every opinion poll produced in the history of NI, the annual NI Life and Times Surveys, etc.)  Not to mention the fact that most Southerners couldn't care less if Belfast got nuked as long as the fallout stopped at Ravensdale!
Also the point about Gaelic and Anglo-Norman Catholics is spurious and irrelevant.  Any conscious difference between the Old English and the Gaelic Irish passed away about 250 years ago.  It wouldn't enter into anyone's head to even think about it.  Gerry Lynch 17:20, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-NPOVing - Hun Nats/Taig Unionists=

message: Someone on a talk page or in an edit comment (I think it was Morwen) said there is no flag for Northern Ireland. Well there is. It's the Cross of St George with the Hand of Ulster placed in the centre. Can we have it back please, at the head of the article?
:Morwen is actually correct.  The flag you are thinking of was the flag of the Parliament of Northern Ireland (i.e. the one that was got rid of in '72).  It has no official status although many Unionists have adopted it as an unofficial flag.  And it certainly has no cross-community consent.Gerry Lynch 12:36, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: There is already an article - Flag of Northern Ireland, which just needs linking to.  80.229.39.194 13:56, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

text: Great idea.  You know what to do! Gerry Lynch 14:15, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northern Ireland Flag 

message: Sorry to be so brutal but I had to do it as:
* Gaels/Anglo-Normans – nobody even notices this sort of stuff.  Really.  Let’s not get too into racial purity ideas.
* Sinn Féin supporters – an encyclopaedia is no the place to boast about how many votes you have.  Save it for the talk boards and try and be a little bit more impartial.
* Wolfe Tone was an Anglican of English background, not Ulster-Scots, and the Presbyterians (and especially offshoots like the Free Ps and Brethren) will be last people on Earth to support a United Ireland.  Hell will freeze over first!  Wishful thinking seriously at work here.
* Six Counties – POV term, sorry.
* Paisley isn’t a Presbyterian, he’s a Free Presbyterian.  It makes a whole wide world of difference.
* ‘free elections’ to be held soon – when was our last ‘unfree’ election?
* ‘There is a small, usually silent, middle class minority of Irish Catholics who support union with Britain.’ – that’s almost certainly true, but they almost all vote SDLP/SF or Alliance.  They don’t vote UUP and that’s something that’s worth pointing out.
* ‘with Catholics beginning to use contraceptives, reunification will most likely only occur with consent from the Anglo-Saxon and Scotch-Irish Protestant community’- Hmmm, this comes from one of the sort of Prod who really thinks Catholics take direct instructions from the Pope.  A bit smutty and not really fit for an encyclopaedia.  The point is probably correct in macro terms, although the cause of the collapse in birth rates all over Europe (including among Ulster Protestants) is more complex than contraception).
* Party structures in GB may well have their roots in social class – but the class basis of politics is weakening in just about every major democracy.  There’s no evidence that NI is going down that road, and certainly arguable whether class based politics are a good thing.
* Catholic UUP Assembly members – oul’ John Gorman didn’t stand for re-election, and the one off Catholic Unionist (e.g. Sir Denis Henry, first Attorney General of NI) and Prod Nats are nothing new.  But they tend to be one offs.
* The British Conservative do contest elections in NI – they might not win any, but that’s a different story.  And the UUP have no formal links with the Tories, either.Gerry Lynch 12:35, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: OK, I've done it

message: If you're going to make major changes on the political tone of an article, you may find it best to discuss them here, and get consent from other users, first.  That way it's less likely your edits will be reverted.  Gerry Lynch 16:03, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: To user 62.253.226.1