Talk:Budapest/Archive 2

message: it's operated by BKV not MAV as the article says
: Then, correct it. --Cserlajos (talk)  (contribs) 17:22, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  HÉV 

message: This is the question. The section "Tourism" is now a long gallery of truly beautiful images, but. Shouldn't these pictures be moved to a separate article? I think its not okay now: this is an encyclopedia, not Flickr. Any opposition, suggestion? --Cserlajos (talk)  (contribs) 17:22, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added the  tag there again, so if someone wants to remove it, they should discuss it here first.--Svetovid 08:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: An Article, or a Gallery?

message: Some information on Universities and Education in Budapest would be usefull and helpfull. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.182.216.255 (talk) 22:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Universities 

message: It would be wonderful if someone who had local access to resources could find source citations for the key information in this article.  I have created a references section that will display any references includes using the guidelines in WP:FOOT. Alan.ca 07:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source ctiations 

message: I've added an official census data instead of estimations, and because the previous reference, http://english.budapest.hu was abused. It estimates the population around 2 million , not 1 610 000 what this article stated, citing english.budapest.hu, so it is clear, that the reference was abused. Beware of falsifications! 
John —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 91.120.101.155 (talk) 13:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beware of falsifications!  

message: #Based on the reading I've done for this, the spellings Buda-Pesth/Budapesth are not current, only archaic (interestingly, Bram Stoker's Dracula uses Buda-Pesth). I've placed the Buda-Pesth information in the History section. This is the section that this information is best-suited to.
#Remember that both Buda-Pesth and Budapesth redirect to Budapest, so anyone searching those terms will find the correct article.
#I added that the unamalgamated Pest, Óbuda, and Buda were referred to as Pest-Buda.
#These changes have required a tweaking of the Lead paragraph.
##I have made explicit that the IPA pronunciation is for Hungarian, using Barcelona as an example. Note that Wikipedia:Manual of Style (pronunciation) would require first the English IPA, and then the Hungarian, but the English pronunciation is obvious.
#Note also that I am also adding a References section to this article. I can fix the reference format of the reset of the article to fit this later.
Please leave your comments in the Comments Section below. Flyguy649 talk contribs 06:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed solution re: Buda-Pesth

message: I think adding GDP per capita would be very useful. (the only problem is that I cannot personally figure out how to do that)
The current figure is EUR 26,526, that is USD35,518. Source: http://www.observatoribarcelona.org/eng/Indicadors.php?IdentificadorTema=&Identificador=11
So if someone could add that, It would be great.
:Great idea, but I would urge you to be careful before adding this figure. There are several incompatible ways to calculate GDP, and the information is only valuable if Wikipedia is internally consistent. I don't know whether there is a consensus on what source to use. 81.182.216.203 18:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add a GDP per capita to the information box 

message: Personally, I think the two sources given are not reliable. We should use quotes from literature, not self-published tourist agency pages. DrKiernan 08:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Administrators' Noticeboard! Topic on that at the bottom. Squash Racket 08:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I saw. My point is, I want to know who first coined the term and when. Just using a tourist board slogan (in the same way that the phrase "Paris of the East" is used by Bucharest, Prague, Warsaw and Istanbul) isn't particularly notable. This is an encyclopedia, not an advert for travel agencies. So, in other words, I, like you, would favour removal in the absence of a literary quote from an established author. DrKiernan 08:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you're right. In fact, for Bucharest it is really used, but I don't know about someone notable who said it first. Squash Racket 08:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, Bucharest 'once considered itself the Paris of the East', according to the Britannica Student Encyclopedia, and 'is often called "The Paris of the East"', according to the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, so the phrase is probably OK to use for that city. DrKiernan 08:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It already stands there in the Bucharest article. But isn't it strange having two 'Parises of the East' in neighboring countries? Squash Racket 09:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are obviously several cities claiming "Paris of the East" status. It's almost not notable since there are so many. And it is a bit tourist-pamphlet-ey. Does the article need it? no. Is it harmed by having it? no. Incidently, I checked to see if Paris is considered as the Budapest of the West or the Bucharest of the West. Surprisingly, it's just Paris. I think it's better not to have it. Flyguy649 talk contribs 15:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Accepted. Squash Racket 17:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Two third parties advised NOT to include it. Me too. Squash Racket 19:29, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not the argument here. Budapest is more recognised as Paris of the East on Google. Reginmund 23:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You see, it's not sure if any nicknames will be included but this one certainly NOT. Where do the other ones come from? Perhaps I've heard about 'Pearl of the Danube'. I know that you're an expert on Hungary. Read about the Treaty of Trianon before you try to make Budapest 'Paris of the East'. Squash Racket 05:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And just what authority on here do you have to say certainly NOT? Perhaps I have also heard of "Paris of the East". In that case, your circumstantial evidence has as much leverage as mine, so I say: certainly YES! Reginmund 05:46, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, there has been no poll. This is WP:CONSENSUS. I know wikipedia is not a democracy. And you are right, the article doesn't hinge on the "Paris of the East" nickname. However, I don't think there's consensus to keep it in. Flyguy649 talk contribs 19:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For what it's worth in this pretty nonsensical discussion, this slogan does not add any valuable information to any page ("it is sometimes called yadeyade", there might be a group of people calling Budapest "the Istanbul of the West" for what do you know but that does not mean it should be included here), especially not if it is used by multiple cities, so as far as I'm concerned leave it out. Adderbak 19:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

text: What about the fact that it gets more hits than Bucharest? If there are enough people calling it Istanbul of the West, then why not? The use of the nickname is just a reminder that it is used, and that has already been proven with a significant degree of usage. Reginmund 21:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not really in favour of "Paris of the East" for any city, mostly because it compares the city to another. However, we're not talking about other cities. The consensus here, for Budapest, is clearly against "Paris of the East". -- Flyguy649 talk contribs 05:52, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't bold my comments. Thanks. Flyguy649 talk contribs 06:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, it does make it sound subordinate to Paris, but I didn't coin the term. I'm not taking into consideration the integrity of Budapest, I'm taking into consideration the integrity of Wikipedia. I honestly have no opinion about the name personally but As an encyclopaedia, I think we should honour its place in parlance as long as it is in mainstream usage. I don't see how not liking the name is a valid reason to remove it. Correct me if I'm wrong, Squash Racket, but from reading about the Treaty of Trianon, your consensus as to why "Paris of the East" shouldn't be included is because of anti-Parisian sentiment? This is all the consensus that I am hearing. Reginmund 06:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I think we can stop whispering. I just realized that a small comment above wasn't closed with  </small>. As I just wrote on Squash Racket's talk page, I'm hopeful that we can have the page unprotected later today, and make (at the very least) the changes talked about a couple of sections above. As for the "Paris of the East" (I'm going to start calling this "POTE". Ha!), I agree that Wikipedia, as an encyclopedia, should try to present all knowledge. However, I don't think POTE is encyclopedic; it's (to me) a marketing hook/slogan (hey, you can't afford to go to Paris? Well, there's always the Paris of the East! And there's not just one, there are many! Four Parises!). It is my preference that we work this out on the this talk page. Flyguy649 talk contribs 06:38, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I removed the small text. It was affecting the successive text. I like the acronym. It seems that the obstacle here is that it is a travel agency term (including it doesn't actually violate the advertising policy on Wikipedia), although I think that the prevelent use of it didn't drop out of the sky (presumably from a commercial airliner) so it must have its roots somewhere. If you think that it should be removed until I can pull up an encyclopaedic source, then that seems reasonable. Reginmund 07:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I agree to that - I would drop my opposition if a literary source was given. (BTW, I can unprotect the page once we are agreed.) DrKiernan 07:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

text: To be clear, I've fixed my statement above to emphasise that I believe we should work things out here, on this talk page. Flyguy649 talk contribs 13:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paris of the East 

message: I am going to request unprotection:
#I will put in the changes we've more-or-less agreed to, with variant #3 wording for now. (Sometimes seeing changes in the context of the whole article makes the seem better or worse, or makes other possibilities apparent.)
#I will add hidden comments for some of these to point to the extensive discussion we've had.
#The Paris of the East nickname is coming out for now, although that is not to say that it cannot be re-inserted should Reginmund (or someone else) find a suitable scholarly reference.
#Should the edit warring return, I will immediately request page protection again. I hope future disagreements will be discussed on the Talk page.
Regards, Flyguy649 talk contribs 14:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Add #5: It may be better that Squash Racket and Reginmund not make potentially controversial changes for at least a few days. Ask a neutral party to make them, instead. Flyguy649 talk contribs 14:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Un-protecting 

message: (copied from above)Could we also make a descision between AmE and BrE? I have noticed some Americanisms and Briticisms throughout the page and I think we should stick to one dialect. It's just a personal preference of mine, but I would like to go with BrE. Reginmund 20:37, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer British, but it's probably easiest to make it consistent with the majority. Or with the earliest evidence of style in the history. Flyguy649 talk contribs 22:00, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

text: OK then I'll add in the Briticisms. Reginmund 22:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Dates have a significane in MoS don't they? Reginmund 22:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Per your talk page. Flyguy649 talk contribs 22:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: British English or American?