Talk:Ranjit Lal Jetley

message: OK, have been asked as an Indian military officer to comment on this issue, let me place things in perspective.
* Maj Gen RL Jetley is indeed notable in Indian military history and his accomplishments are of general knowledge to me. He innovated something which helped us defeat American supplied armoured fighting vehicles (first time done since World War II) and helped change the course of our conflict. Unfortunately, he is not a flambouyant commander but a non-descript boffin. 
* The entry is obviously made by a well-wisher wanting to place his achievements on record. This person is obviously not informed about verifiability, need to cite sources and NPOV.
* The achievements of any person who has done what Maj Gen Jetley has done for his country (disregarding the adoring prose) would unquestionably make him noteable and worthy of being in public knowledge and hence written about in Wikipedia. He is not an inconsequential person - his achievements changed the face of Indian military history. Hence I disagree with the Crazy Russian's opinion that Jetley is not 'noteable'.
* Overall, the article does have flaws which need correction :- 
:* Lack of verifiable sources.
:* Lack of sourced image.
:* Lack of overall context.
:* Lack of NPOV.
:* Poor language.
* I think, we need to remove AfD for a while, let me get at the article for a couple of months. A couple of months?!!! Yes, a couple of months. Sorry folks, third world info-access is not so good as of now, I have to physically go to libraries, meet people, write snail mail etc. If the Crazy Russian still feels after the time that the article still does not meet Wikipedia standards, then I will personally delete the wiki, if he logs so in my talk page.
* My subjective opinion - All countries have important people, events and history - but depth of penetration and sophistication in information movement is grossly unequal. So are language skills of  non-native English speakers. Many of my countrymen write reasonably grammatic English but are hopelessly clueless about appropriateness, context, NPOv and such higher issues. Sadly they are literate but uneducated. So does the writer of this article appear to me.
* Compare the relevance of average material placed on day to day basis by Americans and say Indians (just see AfD talk pages for the kind of non-info which is being deleted from people of both countries for comparison). In my country we are nowhere near completing placing on Wikipedia the richness of our history, culture, natural heritage and people.
* Conversely, it is being 'assumed' by a few people from such info-access rich countries that events, articles or information about these info poor countries is 'less important' or 'noteable'. Crazy Russian's action of placing prod and a re-AfD without even the courtesy of placing appropriate notice on the talk page is symbolic of this. 
* In countries like mine, even a privileged person like me has info lag due to lack of or intermittent access to internet. I've answered my emails months later on occassion. I can well imagine a situation where the majority of my work would be deleted without me even coming to know of it the next time I log onto wikipedia. Sorry folks, but all 'wikipedians are equal, but some are more equal than others'.
* Any person in the world can arbitrarily place these merge or prod or AfD without any stake in the information or its relevance or even without taking the trouble to find out about it. It takes herculean effort to get that tag removed. A case of guilty unless proved innocent.
* An issue on record -
:* List of butterflies of India (Riodinidae) had a merge tag placed a day after I made the page. This was reverted after much effort by me.
:* List of butterflies of India (Pieridae) had a delete debate with result keep.
:* List of British butterflies has had virtually no issue. The activity with respect to that list or its daughter articles is fractional as compared to the Indian lists. In fact seeing their seeming inaction, I have just started becoming a major contributer to the daughter articles of that list.
:* A list exists called List of British butterflies (alphabetical by English name) which serves little useful purpose other then repeating whats in the first list. That too for only 60 species totally for that country! The talk page is still a red link! No objection to that wiki which obviously violate WP guidelines. 
:* Lists of Texas and Oklahoma butterflies similarly are bare lists and have red-link talk pages. No delete or merge tags that I see for those pages!
* Well, I have over-reacted but the casualness of Crazy Russian to other people's legacy touched a very raw nerve. He wouldn't have reacted so casually to a biography from his own country.
* Being a focussed large scale contributer to a domain, I intensely dislike travelling editors who come and pronounce arbitrary judgement on articles without in depth consideration of what's involved. (This is in general and not with regard to Crazy Russian).
Unrepentingly yours, AshLin 16:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Crazy Russian desists and thanks you for your effort. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 16:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you should parse it severely. Article should be 1/3 as long. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 17:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Another Point of View

message: AshLin, that's a textbook description of the differences between highly-connected, mass-publishing people/cultures/countries and the rest of the world. Since we now all love each other, would you guys mind if I possibly reproduced some of this discussion if I ever mount an education exercise in WP:BIAS? Not, I hasten to add, because I think Crazy Russian did anything wrong, but because some of the other comments in the AfD were v illuminating (like JzG, whom I generally respect, saying that tagging for a month was obviously enough). I think a lot of Wikipedians just don't understand the problems. JackyR 21:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL... go for it. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 21:30, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perfect description 

message: I've moved the following from the article page: will need to be integrated and followed up. Thanks to Jetley family & friends for providing. JackyR | Talk 19:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Info from Jetley family & Friends

message: For further details about General Jetley's invention, please also see:
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104/india.htm
For pictures and utility  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.235.36.185 (talk) 06:50, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further details