Talk:Delayed sleep phase disorder/Archive 1

message: So last night I stayed up online...until 2AM. Then I studied for an hour and went to bed. And I didn't sleep. And didn't sleep. Have you any idea what it's like to lie in bed for hours and then hear your alarm go off after not having slept at all? Then today I sat for three examination papers. (And I think I did well. I hope that's not just the lack of sleep affecting me.) Am I crazy? My eyes feel a bit tired, but no less tired than last night, when I couldn't sleep at all...
:I generally find if I'm not on the point of collapse upon retiring to bed I can't sleep at all, even if I stay in bed for hours and hours. --86.135.217.213 01:29, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I call it my breaking point of sleep. I've been diagnosed with many things so far. My problems started at about 7, progressed throughout the years. At 16 I got mononucleosis and the shit hit the fan. Before I was diagnosed, I was sleeping for hours after school, only to wake up for an hour to eat or maybe do homework. After I was diagnosed, I slept 22 hours a day for two weeks, and around 14 from then on. Now I'm on a schedule that I go to bed around 2-9am and wake up from 12 to 4pm. Hardly effective for the world we live in. I have gotten depression because of my inability to work with the normal world. I'm on the brink of not making it into college as well, a big downer for me. I'm glad I know I have the skills to do what I want, college or not. 72.153.5.86 03:19, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Am I crazy? 

message: For years and years I thought I was lazy... guess being told that by my whole family made me think that. Last night, I finally had it and was searching online for a name... just the name of what could be wrong with me. At about.com, I found an article on insomnia (which I don't have but thought that is the closest thing to this) and there, there was a mention of DSPS. I thought well this sounds like it might be it...a quick search on yahoo brought me to Wikipedia and once I read the article, I knew right then and there that this is IT!
If I am left alone, I sleep at 5 AM and wake up at 1 PM. I have had to put up with this for 14 years now. The only other person in my family that probably has this, is an uncle of mine. I just feel this sense of total relief that I am not alone... and I am not lazy. For years throughout college and grad school, I did my own chronotherapy. And sometimes I did changed it by not sleeping for 2 days in a row. I have found that I can adjust... although, even after an 8 hour sleep, waking at 5 or 6 AM is really difficult since that's when I'd like to go to bed. And once I have a few days off, my sleep goes right back to my natural rhythm.
I like to know whether light therapy could actually change my natural rhythm. If it does, then I would like to try that. Otherwise, I am just gonna stick to my own chronotherapy. I just finished grad school and I don't have extra $ to spend if it doesn't help. Any comments are much appreciated.
P.S. I have taken melatonin in the past, and that does not help me at all.
My doctor recommended http://www.litebook.com and it's helping.--Sonjaaa 04:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OMG! So this is what is wrong with me! 

message: Hi everyone, 
I'm in the process of trying to improve this article. By way of introduction, I wrote one of the first web pages on DSPS (http://www.geocities.com/delayed_sleep/). Here is a plan I am planning to follow  over the next few days, weeks, or months - unless of course someone beats me to it!
1) Divide the article into sections by adding headings; reorganize the content without changing it. I just did this.
2) Add a disease infobox.
3) Add references, and move the "Original Research" template to the individual sections that require it. I think the article needs to distinguish what parts of the article are scientifically solid and what aren't.
4) Improve the statement that, "Research into DSPS... is only a couple of decades old and by no means conclusive. Many doctors reject its status as "incurable", while others see it as "shifted phase", i.e. that a normal pattern exists but has been suppressed." This statement bothers me because it seems to imply a lot but doesn't really say anything. What findings, exactly, are inclusive? Why do the "many doctors" reject its status as "incurable"? If any doctors know of cures (as opposed to treatments), then I would like the article to say what they are. If doctors have differing opinions about whether DSPS is a real condition, the reasons for those  opinions perhaps should be discussed in the article.    
I plan to make several small edits over time instead of big ones, so everyone stays comfortable. Please comment on this plan. 
Kla'quot 06:38, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  General improvements to the article 

message: I deleted this from the article:
----
"Similarly anti-depressants, which are often prescribed for insomnia, may delay sleep onset even further in DSPS."
''
I removed this statement because I can't remember seeing it reported in the scientific  literature. Can anyone provide a reference for it? 
--Kla'quot 06:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting the section on recognition in the medical community 

message: I am gradually copying content from the pages at http://www.geocities.com/delayed_sleep, into Wikipedia. Just so nobody is alarmed, this is not a copyright violation. The content I'm copying is under Creative Commons License. Anyone may now copy it to Wikipedia (see: http://www.geocities.com/delayed_sleep/aboutsite.html), but please give me a week or so to do it so I can integrate things smoothly. 
Kla'quot 07:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copying content from http://www.geocities.com/delayed_sleep 

message: Today I corrected a couple of erroneous references to insomnia from the article. Please editors, note that DSPS is not a type or form of insomnia, which is an inability to sleep regularly or at all. Insomnia can be caused by DSPS, for instance when the sufferer denies his or her circadian rhythm by trying to adapt to socially accepted timeframes. Being afflicted with DSPS is not the same as suffering from DSPS - it is theoretically possible for someone with DSPS to lead an almost normal life with regular periods of sleep entirely without 'suffering'. 212.178.112.106 22:20, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A note to all editors: insomnia 

message: I took out the section on combination treatments as it wasn't sourced, and it read like a list of "treatments" for finding it tough to get out of bed. "drinking two full glasses of water" will only wake a DSPS sufferer in the middle of their "night", it won't change their circadian rhythm. The rest are equally poor, especially the downright hazardous "take double doses of sedatives". Darkaddress 18:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call. Kla'quot 02:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of section 

message: So since this is the discussion session I have a question to all you people with DSPS: How do you all cope with friends, family, work, etc with this condition? I have been chaistised by all of these individuals saying that I need to 'train my body to go to sleep' or 'you need to do better' and have given me nothing but further frustration and angst.
Like many people with this I have tried so many things and they have all failed miserably. If it were up to me though I'd go to sleep around 3-4 AM and get up around 10-Noon but in the working world that cannot happen. When I am at school I can just adjust my classes for the semester to a time that suits me and doesn't interfere with performance.  I have also suffered from depression in the past and still have some of that combined with anxiety. Comments? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.162.5.12 (talk • contribs) July 19 2006.
: Hi there. I and a few million other people have lots of empathy for you. For your family, friends, and work, send them to this Wikipedia article and maybe it will enlighten them. DSPS is a tough disorder to treat and really tough to live with too. As for jobs, some require early mornings and some don't. May I recommend the Niteowl support group ? There are few easy answers, but at least you'll know you're in good company. Best wishes, Su-Laine Su-Laine Yeo 06:32, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I'm fortunate in that I've managed to fairly successfully adapt.  For one thing, I have a career that's very friendly to this sort of thing: I weave.  I have a big weaving loom in my house, my boss gives me bags full of yarn and my orders, and I turn finished throws in at the end of the week.  Since I work at home and I can basically put the hours in whenever I want so long is everything is done by the due date, it's easy to just work when I happen to be awake.  Of course, I do face unrelated drawbacks; the hours (though flexible) are long and the pay is low.  As for friends and such, I practically live online (working at home and not having a car tends to limit one's real-life social interactions) so I just make friends on IM with people in exotic time zones. 68.35.129.180 07:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Not too much luck here.  I find it hard to sleep before 7AM.  I might also have a touch of non-24-hour sleep-wake syndrome, as this time often increases, but I can usually regulate sleep around 7AMish.  I don't have too much trouble with my friends.  My family thinks I'm lazy.  Work -- is a nightmare.  I'm currently in the process of getting a new job... the only problem is that the only jobs I've been able to find also start at 8AM.  I recently worked an 11hr shift on one hour of sleep and only had one five min break during the whole thing.  It sucked.  I used to have quite a bit of luck with marijuana but I can't use that now because it impairs my memory too much for the job I'm working at... meh.  --Animus9 11:30, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I just want to thank the editors here for a breakthrough moment for me upon reading the article.  I've had the same 3am-11ish sleep pattern for the last 23 years, with occasional episodes of N2HSS, and only lately have found a line of work compatible with that pattern.  I'm a music composer for tv shows and films, so I work on deadlines.  I'm very excited to learn more about this, and get started on a treatment plan, because it would be nice to not have to always schedule meetings in the afternoon. Cheers!  Davwood 22:01, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I just had a similar "breakthrough moment", in reading this article.  If I'm left to my own devices, I'll sleep a similar 3am to 11am cycle.  I can't tell you how much that impacts on the rest of my life.  I've ended up doing a less than challenging job because I can do it from home and get up when I'm ready.  I've had trouble developing a relationship with partners because they're ready for bed at 9pm and I'm just starting to get to my creative "thinking" stage of my day.  I've been called lazy, and a sleepyhead, because I don't operate very well before 11am, even though I get less sleep than everyone else, and I know myself that I'm not lazy.  It makes such a difference to be able to put a scientific basis to this, instead of just calling myself a "night owl".  Cheers x2 ! Wampusaust 06:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Drugs, both permitted and not by law haven't helped.  They work for a few days or weeks, but I just get used to them and fall into my regular early morning-afternoon schedule, and my thought processes end up hampered (as well as my dexterities).  Jobs at 9am have just resulted in either insomnia or oversleeping.  I still need a full night's sleep, but I can't get it until I've been awake for 18-20 hours, which leaves me at a deficit every night.  I can't believe there's a drug company (the name of which I can't remember) promoting a sleep-aid that is non-habit forming.  That's BS.  If it knocks me out, I'll take it, and chances are I'll have a habit for it before it stops working.  (Warrenreport 10:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hee hee. I think I have this condition. I haven't been feeling tired until 2 AM since I was taking my GCSEs. Now I'm 20, doing Creative Writing at university and I hack it fine. I don't WANT it cured!!! [/soapbox] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lady BlahDeBlah (talk • contribs) 23:49, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I have considered that I may have DSPD, and that I do want to go see a doctor about this, but one thing puzzles me: Alot of you have said, and is stated on the article, that many will fall asleep around 3 am and wake up at about noonish. The same is not for me, at least at the awakening hours. I often now when waking in the morning shut off my alarm with little memory of doing so, and very rarely do I actually sleep through it. If left to my own devices, I will often be woken up at around noon by various people, but then go right back to sleep. If I'm not woken up at all, I'll often sleep in til 3 or 4 in the afternoon. During one summer, my sleeping cycle changed slowly but it increased to the point where I fell asleep at around 7 or 8 am and woke up at around supper time (5-6). Its not like that anymore, but I'll wake up very late on the weekends. I'm actually very wary of online diagnosis, but DSPD is the closest thing I've seen that "describes" me, because when I do sleep, I sleep very soundly, so insomnia seems rather ruled out. But it is nice to know that this sort of thing does have a name. I've had this since I was younger (although it wasn't entirely this late, it was just really late for kids my age at around 3 or 4). :) 204.112.155.232 23:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Discussion on DSPS 

message: I deleted, "Some sufferers deny the existence of any problem and refuse to accept that they may not be suited for a 9–5 lifestyle." From what I've seen, lack of awareness is very common, but most sufferers who learn that DSPS exists immediately acknowledge that they have it. 
Kla'quot 09:08, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Social vs. medical 

message: Re: this edit: 
Should acupuncture should be listed under Treatments?:  I completely agree that complementary and alternative medicine techniques such as acupuncture should be included on this page if there is a reasonable amount of anecdotal evidence to support their use. Many Wikipedia articles do this, such as Asthma which is a featured article.  
However, after doing some digging around with the links provided in the current version of the article, I can only find references to acupuncture for insomnia, not for circadian rhythm sleep disorders. Insomnia is a symptom of DSPS, but treatments for DSPS are very different from treatments for insomnia. Can you give any references or links that discuss acupuncture as a treatment for DSPS? If not, I think it would be better to move the references you mention to the Insomnia article. Su-laine.yeo 02:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acupuncture 

message: I deleted this: "however many who suffer from it regularly use cannabis immediately before bed, which they say allows them to easily fall asleep, not forcing it like most medications." Some quick Google searching brought up this article:  which indicates that marijuana may or may not be useful for insomnia. However, as with acupuncture, I can't find anything that says cannabis has an effect on circadian rhythm sleep disorders. If a reference can be found linking cannabis to treatment of DSPS, I have no problem with mentioning it. Kla'quot 16:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this would count as original research and therefore would not meet Wikipedia standards. JHP 19:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cannabis