Talk:Tool (band)/Archive 3

message: The intro states that Tool is a rock band, however the genres assigned are Progressive metal and Alternative metal. It´s really confusing. I think that Progressive rock and rock should also appear in the genres list on the box. Since I´m only an occasional Tool listener I will not be bold and edit it myself, but the article seems to contradict itself if the genres remains as it is now. Regards. Loudenvier 03:16, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for pointing it out. You are right, there seems to be a lot of removing and reversing going on regarding the infobox genre. I will go and make it consistent with the article. --Johnnyw talk 08:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the quadruple listing "Rock, Heavy Metal, Alternative Metal, Progressive Metal" in the infobox is a bit overkill. Besides, Progressive Metal essentially originated from within Heavy Metal (as did Alt I suppose, but with a bit more genre convergence than the ideas of early Prog Metal), and it is the Prog end from which Tool draws influence. So I propose that we don't list Heavy Metal as an influence, unless we have a good reason to that I have neglected to realize.--Cassius987 20:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I originally wanted it to go along with the article (prog rock instead of prog metal): rock is obvious, prog rock because of the quote we got about 'lateralus' and their obvious influences, heavy metal due to jones' description about opiate and alt metal due to our own section "Arguments about genre and categorization". d'you think we should just drop heavy metal? what about alternative metal? what's alternative metal anyway? i gonna have to look that one up... --Johnnyw talk 23:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  My two cents on an article from a band I (still) did not listen to (too) much: Drop Heavy Metal, it normally refers to 70´s metal or to the metal genre in general (an all encompassing term). If Tool was influenced by early Heavy Metal or not do not make their style Heavy Metal. I would drop Heavy Metal and include Prog Rock (which I think is one of the most important style trademarks from Tool (again according to my litle understanding of this band)). I would list: Rock, Prog Rock, Alternative Metal, Prog Metal. I think Tool presents aspects from all this styles, but they´re definetily more Rock, Prog Rock. For example, Tool has just been excluded from the list of Progressive Metal bands (many metal fans do not categorize Tool as metal, which is oversimplification and POV on their parts). See Symphony X a band that is clearly Prog Metal but which includes many aspects of other styles, the genre list is 4 styles (although I could argue that Symphonic Metal is a litle "forced in"). Iron Maiden have three styles (although Heavy Metal and Classic Metal are the same thing.. :-) What I´m trying to say is that some bands that are clearly categorized in one style are being classified with more than one on wikipedia (which is good for the sake of completeness). Tool which is so varied and eclectic is certainly a subject of more than a few genre classifcations. (PS.: Sorry for the poor english!) Loudenvier 01:36, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the right denomination would be more prog metal and not prog rock since Tool is definetly has a heavier sound than most prog rock bands (such as, say, Pink Floyd, King Crimson or Rush) and indeed even more than some prog metal bands. Obviously however, it's quite hard to fit it into one or the other (or any definite genre), but I do think we should keep metal. Holomorph 01:15, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Simply being heavy is not enough to make them metal; take that and distorted guitars out of the mix, and they almost nothing in common.  Besides, a clear musical lineage with metal must be obvious in order for a band to be metal, and Tool fails that test as well.  No trad metalisms, no power metalisms, no black metalisms, no thrash metalisms, no NWOBHM-isms...etc. And this has already been decided anyway, see below. Ours18 06:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rock of metal? 

message: Can anyone provide a source citing Dream Theater as one of Tool's influences?  I've read hundreds of Tool interviews and I've never once seen them mention Dream Theater.  However, I have read interviews where Tool mentions the other non-cited influences.  If I find them, I'll add them as citations.  I've also seen Dream Theater express their appreciation for Tool, but not vice versa.  Saying the bands sound similar is not adequate and is purely subjective.  We need to either add a citation or remove the reference to Dream Theater. Ignitus 07:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That was just recently added and I seemed to have missed it, otherwise I would have reverted. It is completely justified to remove, I have never read a single word about DT in connection with influencing Tool. Thx for pointing it out. --Johnnyw talk 08:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I think I remember reading somewhere that Justin is a big Dream Theater fan.  Couldn't even begin to think of where I saw that though.  Could have dreamt it as well - who knows! hellboy 11:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know for sure but I don't think so. As far as the band as a whole, I've never read something of the sort (and I've read a lot of interviews), so I'm removing it since it still has no citation. Holomorph 00:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Influences

message: The opening article states that Tool's second albumn was Ænima. This is wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.216.191.52 (talk • contribs) .
:Discounting for Opiate being an EP, Ænima is well enough Tool's second album. But please let us not open up the discussion. It's more then futile to invest our time in this matter. --Johnnyw talk 08:53, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article inaccuracy  

message: I am quite new to Wikipedia so please excuse any inaccuracies in text boxes and such.
I notice that in the first sentence of the section "The Early Days" the article mentions that they all "coincidentally" moved to Los Angeles. But this coincidence does not really exist, because if they had not all moved to Los Angeles then the band would not have formed and we would be none the wiser. If they had met, or had some relation before the move, the there would be a definite coincidence. May I suggest the word be changed to "luckily", or "thankfully"?
                                  Watto the jazzman 03:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coincidental? 

message: Alice In Chains and Soundgarden should be listened with the other bands. Tool started with heavy grunge influences (Undertow), then that guys evolved their style, but Tool is a band influenced by grunge.Connacht
:if you can find a citation, please add it.  i would be skeptical, however, since those bands essentially co-existed with tool.  Influences generally arise from prior artists.The undertow 17:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  influences 2 

message: VANDALISM!
Someone has been coming to the article and changing the article and replacing it with "tool is the worst band ever, they suck and i hope they die"
How can we stop this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.69.91.239 (talk) 04:31, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: User 71.83.55.176 has been warned about this behaviour. Pomte 11:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: wonder if it's maynard or maybe a demon Danny Carey summoned Lenn0r 01:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: If a few improvements were made, I could see this being of the quality needed for good article status.--h i s   s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 20:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that is nice to hear, thank you... Do you have any specific suggestions? --Johnnyw talk 12:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is a pretty well-referenced article, nearly GA 

message: from article:
"In September of 2001, following the attacks on the World Trade Center, Tool decided to cancel its concerts for the first time in the band's history, on September 11 and 12. The first concert since 9/11 took place on September 14, in Columbus, Ohio at the Schottenstein Center. Maynard appeared on stage in army fatigues, and spoke to the crowd, asking them, prophetically, to "come together before we're torn apart."
i highly doubt the quote is factual though i wouldn't be surprised if they cancelled some concerts. see: http://www.cdicarlo.com/paper_04maynard.htm
from this reference:
:"...when I had saw them at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto, during their first song, "The Grudge", someone threw an American flag onto the stage. Immediately, the bassist, Justin Chancellor, kicked the flag off to the side where a roadie grabbed it and took it off stage.
:"MK: "Yea, I wanted to piss on it. The audacity that some people would assume that we're going to wave the flag and turn what we believe is a spiritual endeavour focussing on self-reflection and discovery into some kind of cheesy American propagandist movement, was the furthest thing from our minds"."
also can't find it mentioned in http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2001_09.php or http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2001_10.php, although this doesn't mean it didn't happen.  
it's quoted without a source so it really shouldn't be here anyway but im just adding info so maybe its not added again 
hugs and kisses,
El hombre de haha 06:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there are still the concert reviews at t.d.n. link. The concert was rescheduled, but there was no flag waving going on rather an appeal to the crowd to turn the emotional turmoil into s.th. positive and some other stuff. Maybe I will add the story to the article.. but truthfully --Johnnyw talk 09:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: quote

message: Just wanted to let everyone know that the article is now listed on 2nd spot behind tollband.com, followed by t.d.n. on 3rd in the result for search for "tool" at google. I am amazed! Two years ago, the article wasn't even in the top twenty.. Well seems like we're doing s.th. right... --Johnnyw talk 10:11, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  google rating 

message: I rated this article as a B because of original research in the quotes mainly in the "New tour" section.  I also rated the article B because of the "Trivia" section.  If you want more advice, seek a WP:Peer Review before submitting this article to WP:GA.  Cheers! Real96 01:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! I will remove the OR, I believe there should be sources to replace them.. Afterwards I will go through the trivia and then find a replacement for the infobox image. Then, a peer review will follow =) --Johnnyw talk 17:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rating

message: A user from the IP address 67.39.198.134 enlightened us with
 "Jeff Brodsky was the original bassist who left the band to pursue a side project known as Lotus Pedal."
and with that removed the entire Notes section.
I can't confirm any of this information either... Anyone? --oKtosiTe - talk 19:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This bio here says that Lotus Pedal exists since 2001. Their own site sees them currently recording some new demos. Looks like an attempt at a promo-stunt to me =) --Johnnyw talk 20:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what I was thinking too, but I didn't have the time to dig into it... thanks. --oKtosiTe talk 15:19, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jeff Brodsky? 

message: Twice, an anonymous user has added some Chris Floyd, apparently a friend of Keenan's, as the bass player that should succeed d'Amour to the article. A google search for "Chris Floyd" tool bass keenan -wikipedia reveals 6 hits, all unrelated. Of course I will revert again, unless somehow, a reference can be found. --Johnnyw talk 10:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh really? Google hasn't caught up then. –Pomte 14:34, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  what's up with this sudden "appearence" of never-before discovered band members? 

message: ::"UK music channel MTV 2 aired the music video repeatedly for a full hour on it's first night of release."
:If this is true, and I take it to mean that they played "Parabola" non-stop for an hour straight, then it's fairly interesting and could be added to Parabola (song). –Pomte 14:34, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I seem to recall some forum entry about that some while ago. We need a reliable source and then we could add it to the Parabola entry, I agree. But a mentioning in the band bio is a bit too much I think. --Johnnyw talk 15:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: parabola 1 hour nonstop broadcast on mtv 2 (uk)