Talk:Joyous Entry

message: As the abundant number of references in the now revised article —and the table in section 'Title' here above— make very obvious, the term 'Joyous Entry', like in French and Dutch languages, mainly means the first official visit of a city. At those visits, extra rights were often granted. At one such occasion of a Joyous Entry into Brussels, an important charter was signed which in context of major law texts became referred to as the Joyous Entry. It thus deserves a proper section by itself, but cannot occupy the entire and far more general term (and article name) 'Joyous Entry'. Since both the general and the specific meanings are most closely related, it would not have been correct to create some disambiguation page; at the contrary, the lead section clarifies the origin of the occasion as well as the name of the famous charter. — SomeHuman 15 Mar2007 11:18 - 17 Mar2007 19:24 (UTC)
:The article is actually a subsection of Triumphal entry (but check the present redirect!), an opportunity for propaganda and pageantry from the early fifteenth up to the early eighteenth century, which repeatedly occupied the best architects, painters and designers of Europe, represented in Renaissance festival books. Louis XIV carried on the tradition as an instrument of cultural propaganda in his well-publicized fêtes. Raw material: Borso d'Este's triumphal entries into Modena and Reggio (1453); the triumphal entry of Leo X into Florence (1515), occupying Andrea del Sarto and others; Charles V's triumphal entry into Lille, wedding festivities for Grand Duke Cosimo I de’ Medici and Eleonora di Toledo (1539); Henri II's triumphal entry into Lyon (1548); the triumphal wedding procession of Grand Duke Ferdinando and Christine of Lorraine (Florence, 1589); Louis XIII's triumphal entry into Lyon; Cardinal-Infante Ferdinand into Antwerp (1635 with its richly illustrated book) --Wetman 21:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Triumphal entry now redirects here (was to Palm Sunday!).  I think ultimately a split is needed between an article on the JE of 1356 (was it) and one on the wider phenomenon, as outlined by Wetman above - I have added a sentence or two to the article lead on it. Or just a new article on the Triumphal entry, borrowing the list etc from here. I've added the BL link, and another German one from HAB Wolfenbüttel. Johnbod 22:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If Triumphal entry receives an encyclopedic treatment, it needs a summary-with-hatnote-link of Roman triumph, which it was consciously reviving, and a summary of Joyous Entry, as well as the modern devolution to Victory parade. Then it can become the enveloping article into which these more specialized articles are enfolded. --Wetman 02:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see the short  takes us back to 1301 - I suspect less elaborate, and less well-recorded, festivities go back even further. Johnbod 03:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Norbert Elias, The Court Society 1983, is required reading: I had a paperback of it here somewhere...--Wetman 04:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have Roy Strong's Art and Power; Renaissance Festivals 1450-1650, which is another key text. Johnbod 17:19, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

text: What do people think is the best title - I like the idea of centring it on "entries" rather than general festivities: Triumphal entry, Royal entry, Ceremonial entry, Joyous Entry, Magnificent Entertainment (James I - sadly no I think), or something else?  With capital E?    Johnbod 17:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Joyous Entry rewritten

message: As this page was articles on two different things uncomfortably fused together, I've split the content of the 1356 Joyous Entry to a separate page. This one can focus on the general idea of the triumphal entry, and that one can focus on the charter. I'll update all links to this page to point to the proper article. I hope that's OK. Oreo Priest talk 04:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Arguably this article should now be merged to royal entry then. Johnbod (talk) 04:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: So that makes sense to you then? Good. Perhaps whatever's not mentioned in royal entry can be added there, and this can be renamed List of Joyous Entries in the Low Countries or something? Oreo Priest talk 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

text: A proper fork leaves behind a concise summary of the stripped-away material; otherwise, this merely cannibalizes articles, not a move forward.--Wetman (talk) 10:09, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe split is a better word. There's a hatnote sending the reader there, and is a blurb several lines long describing why the 1356 Joyous Entry was significant and linking the reader there as part of that line in the list. The 1356 Joyous Entry was really a Brabantian constitution named after the Joyous Entry, so the pages are about two pretty distinct things. A summary of that constitution would be out of place here, no? Oreo Priest talk 12:27, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fork 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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