Talk:Persian literature

message: Persian literature was recently nominated to be promoted to good article status, and has passed! Congratulations and keep up the great editting! Highway 20:57, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Promotion 

message: Roozbeh, even thought you are right that my omission of "poet" for Rumi was unintentional, I am now thinking it is perhaps better if we do not categorize them as such on this page.  My reasons are the following:
* Many of the poets were also writers and to categorize them as poets would hide or diminish the fact that they also produced major prose.
* Since poetry has been used in Persian extensively, even many historians of the past centuries dabbled in poetry, we would have a list of 90% "poets" here if the list grows (and hopefully it will grow to accomodate all the major figures of the persian literature). 
What do you think?  --K1 12:34, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe we should provide the information on one being a poet or something else. If Sa'di, for example, also has written other important stuff, we can always mention "poet and writer", or whatever. I believe there are many cases that someone's writings in non-poem form have not survived or have no value of any kind. These will be the pure poets. -Roozbeh 13:41, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: There should be a page created that lists the most famous works of literature in Persian history. Like Manteq al-Tayr, Bustan, Golestan, Shahnama, DFivan Hafez, etc etc...--Zereshk 20:04, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. I also suggest not to differenciate between "Persian poets" and "Afghan poets", because Afghan poets are also Persian poets. Afghanistani, Tajikistani and Irani writesr and poets should be listed in the same list. Information about their nationality should be added, however, it makes no sense to have difefrent lists for people who write in the same language. -213.39.200.25 01:53, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I'll change the headers.--Zereshk 02:14, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: page needed

message: The Persian literature is perhaps one of the best in the world, but the article has a test of self glorification. It seems to have been writen but an enthusiastic Persian Nationalist. I think that the article will greatly benfit from adopting a more NPOV--Khalid hassani 20:17, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Specifically which section are you referring to? Please specify so we can work on it.--Zereshk 10:30, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

text: And the metric is? Superiority is measured how? All you're really saying is that you like Persian. If you can find a quote from some reputable scholar stating that, we can add it as one POV. Then I'll find numerous quotes from scholars condemning linguistic chauvinism. Until then, we can drop the subject entirely. Zora 07:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Drop it? By whos authority? It's not your call. Why did you delete that section? There was no claim there that wasnt substantiated by a reference or a source. Accusing sources of being POV or "chauvinist" is illegal on WP. It's not your call. And you deleted referenced text. Youre free to add any quote by any scholar that claims that Persian is not as great as is claimed by others.--Zereshk 09:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A self glorifying article

message: I rewrote the section entirely, with names, dates, and titles rather than generalities, and dropped all the smarmy praise. The bit re "Omar Khayyam more quoted than the Bible and Shakespeare" was just NUTS. I know English; I know English literature. The Bible would be the largest influence, then Shakespeare, then, way down the list, Khayyam. Of course, the Bible's influence is so diffuse that it's often there as a phrase or a cliche rather than a complete quotation. Also, how many Bible quotations you see depends on what kind of literature you read. There are a great many more Bible quotations in Charlotte Yonge than there are in Dickens.  
It's also a bit strange to have "Western literature" so prominently featured, given that the classical Persian poets are read from Morocco to Indonesia, in many Muslim-majority countries, and have had a huge influence on various literatures. Are the Westerners the most important people in the world? Is it more important that Matthew Arnold wrote a poem about Rustam and Sohrab than it is that Sufi music from Morocco to Indonesia uses Persian-inspired lyrics? 
Facts rather than hyperbole are the best way to convey the importance of the subject. 
Still lots of work needed on the whole article. Zora 07:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Revisions on Western influence section

message: The article was quite disorganized, so I devoted some time to sorting it into ancient, medieval, and modern periods. I drastically cut down the material on the literature of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India. That should perhaps be in other articles, and linked. It was overshadowing the main part of the article. 
I kept the organization by genre, but I don't like it. It would be MUCH BETTER to sort the various writers into more finely defined periods, giving birth and death dates, if known, and then listing their works, with the genre attached to the work. I would like to hear from other editors re this reorganization. 
I put all the "influence on other literatures/countries" in one huge section. There's a huge chunk missing, which is Persian influence on Sufi poetry and music. Through the Sufi orders, Persian poetry influenced poetry in every part of the Islamic world. 
I also removed all the repetitive language of praise. Wikipedia can comment on importance but not on literary worth. Who are we to judge? 
Once that was gone, it was apparent that we really need some more context for the various periods. All that was left was lists of names. 
Please also note a comment I made on the talk page for Persian literature in the West, suggesting that that article be used as a collection point for lists of translations into various Western languages. Seems to me that comprehensive lists of literature in translation would be a great help for foreigners wishing to explore further. Zora 19:40, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All very true! But no one has done anything about your suggestions yet. Maybe it's time. Kanjuzi (talk) 16:23, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganization 

message: In this context using 'Zend-Avesta' works, but it is a misleading term in itself, and does not include the Pahlavi scriptures, which though being compiled and redacted c. the 9th  century CE are oral transmissions much older in origin (being compiled in large part to protect their religious heritage). In addition are a miscellany of other such texts, but this is of little relevance to this article I'll concede. The national collective memory seemed to have influenced Ferdowsi far more than actual Zoroastrianism, though like Catholics turned old gods into saints, he did turn the old angels, demons, and pre-Zoroastrian gods into kings and the like - anyone with knowledge of the 'old' religion would be blind not to see the connections, however oblique the cultural recension may have been. What would be useful though, is more technical information on Persian Poetry. I'm more familiar with Urdu poetry, but by no means competent to remark on its subtleties. All I know is that there are many styles in Urdu poetry just as different as the sonnet, limerick, or even haiku in their metre, subject matter, and tradition. Is this just a uniquely Urdu thing then? ... In any case I did change the colonial spelling 'Parsee' to the more standard 'Parsi'. Khiradtalk 06:52, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: oops, what I mean by the styles, to clarify, is besides the historical information, what makes them different from each other. I suppose this can be found out on the Ghazal page or whatnot, I just thought it was an idea to show a clean list with their properties and country/area of origin. And oh yeah Vis o Ramin could maybe be put in the pre-Islamic area. Khiradtalk 07:03, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pre-Islamic Persian literature, etc.

message: We certainly need a few paragraphs on Modern Persian Poetry and its different branches (Shamlou poetry, Sepid Poetry of Jalali, Nima Poetry and the new style developed by Simin Behbahani). We also need a short review of what A.H. Zarrinkoub (arguably father of modern persian literature) and Shahrokh Meskoob contributed to comparative persian literature and literary criticism. Does any one have expertise on these issues ? --Joe Dynue11:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hey guy! Why do you use a confrontational tone ?!! Here is my reply:
* Yes! The quality is poor. This is some thing that I've already mentioned it myself on Zereshk talk page. Instead of comlpaining, help to make it better.
* Where ever I used some ones work, I cited it.
* It seems that you are not familiar with modern poetry at all. Otherwise you would be familiar with white poetry.
* About what Behbahani said about Jalali, I have read it in BBC a few weeks ago. I printed the interview. I should search in BBC webpage to find it again.
* About Forough Farrokhzad! Please provide her a seat!! I did not know this is MY duty !! I just did not have enough time. There is also no seat for Akhavan e Sales! 
* I did not call Zarrinkoub as "father of modern Persian literature". !!! I have just mentioned this in the TALK PAGE !!!! I was in his funeral at Tehran University and Pars Hospital. There, it has been anounced that he recieved this title. I mentioned it here just to emphasize the importance of his works on Comparative literature and literary criticism. Zarrinkoub did much more to Persian literature than many other names in this page. Being famous and popular has nothing to do with the guy's significance. For example Moshiri, Sepehri, Farrokhzad etc are very popular and at the same time important figures. However people like Natel Khanlari, Zarrinkoub, Tafazzoli, Meskoob, Forouzanfar contributed much more to Persian literature. Yes, they are not popular out of academia. Please do not forget that literary criticism is the heart of any modern literature. 
Finally, I think we need some people who ARE FAMILIAR with modern Persian literature for editing this section. I have sent messages to many, but recieved no reply. That's why I myself started the section. Please feel free to add and delete... --Joe Dynue11:34, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern Persian Poetry 

message: I haven't gone through the diffs to find out who was putting up all the new material, but it reads like copyvio. Furthermore, it's just full of literary judgements that an encyclopedia should not be making. We can say "A says X about this work" but we can't say X, if it's a judgment on the quality of the work. 
Someone has already spotted the source for some of the copyvio. Is the rest of it from the same work? Zora 19:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe User:Joe Dynue made the additions. You may wanna direct your querry to him regarding the possibility of copyrights. Thanks.--Zereshk 01:41, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is no copivio. I MYSELF added all references. User:Amir85 kindly edited their format. About judgments, I agree with Zora. This is clearly a work in progress. I've already spent a LONG time on that. I knew that It needs more. That's why I invited Zereshk, Amir and a few others to come and help. The problem is that this part was missing for a long time just because no body was familiar with modern literature. I just tried to make a framework for it. Many people do not know that main issues in modern litrature are comparative literature and literary criticism. --Joe Dynue11:48, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

text: There is also another point here:
Contemporary persian literature is not equivalent to Modern Persian literature. It contains both modern and classical literature. --Joe Dynue11:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lots of new material -- and it looks like copyvio 

message: Right now the article is good but not great, it has problems whcih will ultimately kill the article at feature article nomination stage (some were recommended by User:HighwayCello):
* The introduction could use minor tweaking, but it's still good.
* The usage of word "we" in in the article.
* Article's length, We have to summaries some sections and add more materials in those section that are seems depleted, specially in "Persian literature of the medieval" and "pre-modern periods and Pre-Islamic Iranian literature".
* The article in general doesn't seem to follow a specific pattern therefore making it quite difficult to digest. We have to "remold" the article thoroughly.
* The majority of article's refernces are online exteranl links rather than publication (a negative point). 
I have to thank User:Joe Dynue and User:Mtdashti for spending alot of time expanding this challenging article. So far so good guys. I try my best to improve this great article. -- Amir85 20:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here are a few review articles on Contemporary Persian literature. I have not used these academic sources in this article, as I was not aware of their existence. They might be very useful. 
*Contemporary Persian poetry in Germany
*A political review of contemporary persian poetry
*A history of modern persian literature by Kamran Talattof. 
and the following book:
*An Anthology of Modern Persian Poetry By Ahmad Karimi-Hakkak.
Please feel free to add or delete or rewrite my edits. Thanks.--Joe Dynue09:16, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Here is another source that we can also use:  --Zereshk 07:46, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvement 

message: Wikipedia doesn't cap all the words in headings and titles. Thus this article is Persian literature, not Persian Literature. Various editors have been creating section titles in all caps. Please, keep this article in the standard style. Zora 01:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia heading style 

message: Maybe I am mistaken, but The Book of One Thousand and One Nights is not included in the text. Could someone please integrate it into this article? Thx Tājik 10:47, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: indeed.--Zereshk 01:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a section for that. Sangak 19:55, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing ... 

message: * Thousands of friends are far too few, an enemy is too much. *
Hezaaraan dust kam and, Iek doshman ziaad ast.
* The wise enemy is better than the ignorant friend. *
Doshman daanaa behtar az dust e naadaan ast.
* The wise enemy rises you, the ignorant friend falls you. *
Doshman e daanaaa bolandat mikonad. Bar zaminat mizanad naadaan e dust.
"Iek doshman" - in the non-serif font of the quote, the capital "I" looks like a lower case "ell", i.e. "lek". it would look clearer as "yek" (or "jek" in IPA-style).
"The wise enemy rises you" should be "raises you (up)"
"the ignorant friend falls you" should be "the ignorant friend casts you down" or maybe "strikes you down". The uncorrected English is using intransitive verbs where the Farsi requires transitive verbs. Jakob37 15:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persian Phrases section - misprints and mistranslations 

message: Contemporary Persian literature section is in progress. Please help if you have expertise in this field. Thanks a lot. --Joe Dynue12:05, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks a lot. Any helps are very welcome. It's a very time consuming job. Take care. --Joe Dynue15:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine. Sangak 15:40, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy editing: Please Help 

message: Shouldn't translations be made by one person and cited? Isn't the act of translation of literature is an art act? Wouldn't we all agree that attempts to pull the sounds and meaning of words written in one language to another are subjective and creative?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.170.14.238 (talk) 06:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation Citations 

message: "So strong is the Persian aptitude for versifying everyday expressions that one can encounter poetry in almost every classical work"-- but there is no description on the page of how verse in Persian works. What is its meter? what are its forms?--Gheuf 17:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ghazal, ghaseedeh, and the other traditional examples of course.--Zereshk 18:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persian versification 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Abdolhossein Zarrinkoub.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Bidel conference.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Asrar altawheed.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Asrar altawheed.jpg

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Dehkhoda book cover.gif

message: Dear writer of the article,
I think this article needs no amendment or improvement. Because it is impossible indeed! You simply have to write it again, this time cosidering: 1. common sense; 2. scientific standards. A glance at the choice of modern literary persons and writers and given explanations about them reveals that there is a prevailing sense of an old-fashioned literary taste (mingled with out-moded Persian nationalism) hidden and overt almost in every sentence of this text. This mood is in fact present and fixed in the cultural atmospehre of Iran and in the writings related to language and literature in Iran. For instance, you just can't write about literary crticism in Iran without even mentionıng the name of one of its founders Reza Baraheni, unless you have something in your mind against him or his views on literature. I hope will rewrite this article again and make it something really usefull for all people who will read it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.166.167.186 (talk) 02:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  It needs no correction! 

message: Thanks for uploading such great things on wikipedia about Iran. Thanks again for all the extra hard work you guys have put in!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditc (talk • contribs) 10:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  =) 

message: Hi, I will be thankful, if someone help me with the transliteration of the names of Persian writers and poets in Russian for the translation of this article into Russian (Persian literature/Poetry). Is there any difference between Ahmad and Ahmed, etc. ? Thanks in advance, -- Zara-arush (talk) 15:41, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You deleted material with a reliable source and left your signature instead. You are also making unpleasant/derogatory comments about groups of people which I have deleted here. Please stop this or you will be blocked. Dougweller (talk) 06:45, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differences in transliteration 

message: http://library.princeton.edu/projects/islamic/
http://pudl.princeton.edu/collections/pudl0032
http://www.unc.edu/~cernst/mss.htm
http://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/islamic
Rajmaan (talk) 12:25, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manuscripts 

message: Template:A Short History Of Persian literature has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Uanfala (talk) 10:37, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomination for deletion of Template:A Short History Of Persian literature 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Am I the only one to find this article rather disappointing? I was expecting perhaps something like this: Iran Chamber Society: A Brief History of Persian Literature, which is well-structured, chronological, and easy to follow (except that that article, rather bizarrely, and presumably by accident, misses out the 14th century and Hafez). Instead we have vague wafflings about poetry such as this: "Khorasani style ... is characterized by its supercilious diction, dignified tone, and relatively literate language". What on earth is that supposed to mean? What is supercilious diction? What is literate language? Literate relative to what? It's just meaningless nonsense. No indication is given (unless you click on the links to the poets mentioned) about the dates of the poets, or about how poetry developed and changed in style between the time of Rudaki and Jami. It goes on: "Through these courts..." What courts? No courts have been mentioned as yet. Then we have a paragraph supposedly about the 13th century, but which mentions As'ad Gorgani (11th century) and Sana'i (12th century), with a great muddle of chronology. Then we move on apparently to the Safavid period, with a long quotation about homo-erotic poetry (as if such poetry had not existed earlier), and then back to Sana'i again. There are also, apart from that one quotation from Yarshater, no references to any standard works such as Browne or Rypka. Surely this whole section needs to be torn out and started again. Kanjuzi (talk) 06:10, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This article would definitely benefit from being better developed and sourced. As you seem to be familiar with strong RSs on the subject, your contributions would be particularly welcome. Eperoton (talk) 20:07, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disappointing article 

message: I felt article Islamic_literature is in bit of neglect so I added my note on talk page there, requesting to take note of Talk:Islamic_literature#Article_review. If possible requesting copy edit support. Suggestions for suitable reference sources at  Talk:Islamic_literature is also welcome. 
Posting message here too for neutrality sake
Thanks and greetings
Bookku (talk) 08:32, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Requesting wider attention

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion