Talk:Human rights in Turkey/Archive 1

message: I have just read that PKK is a Kurdish worker party. What kind of thoughts are behind this? It should be internationally accepted that PKK is an Kurdish Terror Organization. When I read this article, I can see that the author is not an objective writer.
Hi, Everybody defines been objective differently but we have to stick to Wikipedia policies here. And labelling a organisation is not accepted here so the editor is in the right within the Wikipedia rules. Ozgur Gerilla 02:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: * "Although Turkey is a long way ahead of orthodox Islamic countries...."
The assumption that Western practices are inherently more 'developed' than those of other cultures has no place in a global, neutral encyclopedia. Any suggestions as to a better word arrangement? 82.32.83.19 21:14, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear, it is not just 'Western' practices, but the Uited Nations' Declaration of Universal Human Rights that should be the relevant criterion to assess the democratic development of countries. And from that perspective, I think Turkey is indeed ahead of Arabic world. --Lucas Richards 11:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: More or less agree with this. The official Turkish explanation looks like a lame excuse.  --Lucas Richards 11:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overly subjective wording 

message: This article reads like a Turkish Tourism Ministry bulletin. -- James
:Please help fix it.  Ben Aveling 11:24, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not all history books imply truth. Ozgur Gerilla 23:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pure Propaganda 

message: Tried to make intro NPOV.  
Chopped most of gender.  Especially the bits dumping on the Kurds.  (I have to suspect much of it is true, but why single out just the Kurds?)
Could have moved bit on male conscription, but don't think it relevant to human rights.
Chopped most of press freedom, including the assertion that ethnic broadcasting is only because ", in order to comply with recent human rights legislation"
Still not happy with it, but don't feel I can cut more without losing stuff that is probably interesting.
Cleaned up Ethnic minorities.  Removed comparison to foreign countries here, as I have elsewhere
This line might be worth restoring "It has always been legal to speak any language in one's private life." but probably only if someone can something about public use, use in education, whatever.
No changes to Religious freedom or links.
Regards, Ben Aveling 11:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes on wikificationing 

message: Adminstrators - Please protect this page from editing due to the wave of vandalism from 81.213.123.54 Schzmo 23:26, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excessive vandalism from 81.213.123.54 

message: I've tried to merge in some of the points our anonymous editor seems to want make.
In a way, I'm tempted to remove the cleanup and disputed tags, not because the article is perfectly clean and perfectly balanced, but because those tags ought to be backed up by a list of problems somewhere here on this page.  Regards, Ben Aveling 21:19, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV thrash 

message: The old version of the article is against a particular country, state and goverment, it is away from Wikipedia's quality standarts. 
: Strongly object against this reasoning. As this topic is quite actual and very relevant for EU ascension, it feel that it is indeed a very correct way, in line with Wikipedia standards, to have a specific topic on this. --Lucas Richards 16:37, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The arguments used are quite revealing: the unknown author apparently feels that any critical information may be censored out as it 'costs Turkey a lot'!  However, any critical and true account of human rights infractions in a particular country ALWAYS costs to the image of the country. That is normal, honest and scientifically and intellectually OK. What rfeally matters is whether the criticism given is accurate and correct. And if it is accurate, correct, and also relevant etc (see Wikipedia guidelines), then bad luck for those contributors who identify to much with a particular state or country, so much that their legitimate love and affection for it blinds their neutral judgement. --Lucas Richards 16:37, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert 

message: * women often continue to face informal discrimination, especially in rural areas of Eastern Anatolia where violence against women, forced marriages, so-called honour killings and a lack of basic education also continue to be significant social problems. 
*: added to new version pls check
*::Looks good. Are education campaigns only happening in East Anatolia?
* In 2003, the Turkish Grand National Assembly rejected a proposal to amend the constitution to allow positive discrimination in favour of women
*:making a research about it
*::Thanks.
* there are restrictions on broadcasting programs and news considered harmful to the unity of Turkey and general Turkish ethics.  
*:this true but laws are very strict
*::Looks good.  Might be interesting to provide some more details.
* Writers touching on sensitive issues such as the alleged massacre of a million Armenians 90 years ago and the deaths of 30,000 Kurds in the past two decades, such as Orhan Pamuk, are frequently targeted by the law.
*:Orhan Pamuk's sittuation is different many Turks belive that he did that thing to won the Nobel Prize 
*::Would it make a difference if he had?  Whatever his motives, I think it would be good to mention specific examples such as him, or perhaps someone else instead if there is a better example of what is and is not allowed.
* Turkish society contains elements ... and German ancestry. I don't know why the list of ancestors is important, but if it's there, should it not include Germany?
*:No German ancestry, absolutely sure
*::I can't believe there's not some - not with all the guest workers in Germany.  But I see the point that the bulk of Turkish society descends from the old ottoman empire.  So looks good with the new changes.
* Until recently, Turkey restricted publication, broadcasting and education in a number of minority languages, particularly dialects of Kurdish. The Turkish constitution of 1961 allowed Kurdish publications in principle, but in practice many were confiscated for inciting separatism. During the 1980s, laws were brought in to suppress the use of Kurdish in public life 
*:Compare with the new version
*::Looks good.
* Security forces in Turkey forcibly displaced Kurdish rural communities during the 1980s and 1990s in order to combat the Kurdish Workers’ Party (PKK) insurgency, which drew its membership and logistical support from the local peasant population. Turkish security forces did not distinguish the armed militants they were pursuing from the civilian population they were supposed to be protecting. By the mid-1990s, more than 3,000 villages had been virtually wiped from the map, and, according to official figures, 378,335 Kurdish villagers had been displaced and left homeless.  (see , and . Also see Report D612, October, 1994, "Forced Displacement of Ethnic Kurds"(A Human Rights Watch Publication) )
It might be worth mentioning that the army claimed that it was forcing people from thier homes 'for their own good' but I can't think of any way to say it that doesn't sound sarcastic.
* They are Turkish citizens and Turkish army did not kill Turkish citizens but the terrorist killed more than 30,000 peope
*:I think we're getting into a disputed area here.  We should probably just write what we know, without saying who or why except where that's documented.
* Turkey is a secular country and has no official religion. Every Turkish citizen have right to choose his/her religion and can worship in every way he/she wants.
Can a turkish woman decide to cover her head at work?  At school?  In parliament?
:It is about special case of Turkey, please check new version
::Better.
* For example, the Alevis.
This sentance no longer makes sense.
:Please see now
::Looks good.
* 
I think the fact that we are having this discussion suggests that the article is disputed.  It's good that we're working through this.
Thanks,  Ben Aveling10:48, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean up

message: I've protected this page against edits by anonymous and new users as a result of a prolonged edit war. - FrancisTyers 20:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I've also seen that therev is a massive effort going on from Turkish contributors who remove critical information on Turkey and related topics on a certain scale. They often don't explain anything on discussion pages, just CUT. Some of them (as Delioğul) are self-declared Turkish nationalists. --Lucas Richards 11:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sprotected

message: "instutitions" probably should be "institutions" but as an anon user, I can't alter it.--203.214.88.244 13:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, This is no place to discuss politics. Please try to relate your conversation to the articles subject. Thanks. Ozgur Gerilla 02:02, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling error within article

message: There was no forcely Turkification in the 20th century. Hamsheins are a group of Armenians who chose Island as their religion and continued to live with Armenian traditions.
CrashMex 19:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, why is it that a large percentage of the Kurds do not speak their language then? Ozgur Gerilla 16:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkification??? 

message: I rewrote the whole thing.. I have the impression that people who wrote this article in the first place were really having a kick out of it big time .. :)) And that guy is an admin now.. Go figure.. In any case, i need a few sources and then that's that.. I don't understand why we need to be continously negative.. it is HR in TR, so why wasn't it never mentioned that Turkish women gained the right to abortions, an important HR, in 1985 whereas in Poland and Ireland they still dont have that right?? Always negative, always negative.. Honestly, do some people like to get a kick out of it this negativity? Anyways, Barış(peace) people!.. Baristarim 04:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: This is a POV article! This is pure pro Turk and anti-Kurdish propaganda! Bleah!--193.43.176.101 09:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes.  Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).  The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. Khoikhoi 03:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I have read through the article and reread the controversial parts, and couldn't find any anti-kurdish or pro-turkish propaganda. Please speak clearly. If you want a paragraph or a sentence to be checked for POV, than we can disccuss such things here. Thanks Caglarkoca 11:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You should have seen the older version :)) Well, this article still needs some work and certain sections contextualized. However, even its current state is good from a structural point of view. One thing that needs to be done is to find more general references, and not just for the controversial ones. Hopefully will get around to it one day! Baristarim 00:16, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PURE PROPAGANDA, A LOT OF POV COMMENTS 

message: I recommend merging anything useful in that article to here. --Cat out 16:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It already has been. yandman 16:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

text: 15 out of 212 makes it the one of the first, right? :) Baristarim 16:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

text: No. There are many countries that have both a Prime minister and a President. The former is the head of the government and the latter is considered the head of the executive. --Kimontalk 20:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Beware the troll :) Baristarim 04:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Human rights of Kurdish people in Turkey]] 

message: I feel a bar box would be more appropriate to show number of decisions made by the European Court of Human Rights over the years. However, the template linked-to above only show horizontal bars, not vertical ones; if someone knows how to make vertical bars, could he make such a bar chart instead of the numbered chart I've inserted (or explain to me how to do it)? Thanks, Tazmaniacs (talk) 14:19, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chart and bar tables 

message: Moved here till someone provides sources:
"
The current AKP-led government has tried on certain occasions, but failed, to strengthen legal provisions that are more restrictive, such as making adultery a criminal offense that is in line with orthodox Islamic teaching. Proponents of the proposal however, claimed that the law in question would have prevented the practice of polygamy, which can still be encountered in remote rural areas . In any case, in the light of the recent jurisprudence of the Constitutional Court that had struck down a similar provision for being unconstitutional in 1992, all jurists agree that it would have done so again, even if it were to become law." Tazmaniacs (talk) 17:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced paragraph 

message: I moved it here, since specific criticisms are already adressed, and this section seems to me to general (which country isn't criticized by human rights organizations?). Sources might be useful for more specific issues, though. Tazmaniacs (talk) 10:43, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  International criticism section 

message: This page is not in agreement with European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages where it's stated that Czech republic did ratify the treaty.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.139.107.166 (talk) 12:43, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages 

message: Quasi-official translation of Turkish Constitution uses the term dissolution for what is termed closure here. For the sake of technical consistency I suggest replacing words closure with dissolution here and in this page as well. If no one disagrees, I'll do the changes in next week.--Eleman (talk) 08:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it. I find it interesting that the top hits on Google for "party closure" are all about Turkey! --Adoniscik(t, c) 03:04, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Closure/Dissolution 

message: Divorce is not a right that is denied to women in Malta - divorce is denied to everybody (men and women): "In Malta divorce is not part of our legal system", according to the European Judicial Network, so it should not be used as an argument for gender equality.
Helentr (talk) 22:21, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender equality and divorce in Malta 

message: Guys, don't get me wrong here, I totally agree with communism being oppressed in my country (Türkiye). But this sentence which I removed is absolute speculation: " Many of these are the result of (right-leaning) military influence on Turkish politics, and originally aimed at containing Communism . ".
I mean come on, "(right-leaning)"? That's quite a heavy allegation, but the problem is that it's utterly personal opinion.
If somebody wants to reconstruct a sentence with the same subject (communism) without speculations, please be my guest, though, don't forget to cite it.
Thanks. --Dimitrakopulos (talk) 03:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Communism 

message: I did, of course, first make a one to one copy of the existing article (way back on 10 September 2009). I then projected a structure and put all the pieces that related to the subjects under the relevant headings. Afterwards I started to edit section by section. Sc.helm (talk) 10:12, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: How I proceeded

message: Having waited for more than one month during which there was a single constructive comment I did what I suggested: I made a complete revision. Sc.helm (talk) 09:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Final step

message: A user recently removed the image asking what the purpose of the image was.  The mural is located on a wall at the entrance of public education center in Bayramic Turkey.  Its purpose is to educate the public on what their basic human rights in Turkey are.  It being included in the article conveys the same information to the reader and also points to the positive actions taken by individuals in Turkey to educate each other on what their rights are.  It, in my view, is as perfect as an image can be associated with the subject.
Mdozturk (talk) 19:07, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mural depicting human rights in Turkey 

message: İn Turkey(?) pedestrians have to wait, watch the way patiently first left then right, due the first pass right of the drivers' so either driver or policer may fine them as other europeans.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.47.132.155 (talk) 11:50, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fill the card and Find a reliable shop before taking any public transportation (Esadian Tayyip) 

message: I believe the Racism section of this article should be turned into a separate article under Racism in Turkey. This page is already too long. There are many examples of articles with the exact same purpose such as Racism in Ukraine, Racism in Israel, and Racism in Sweden. I am willing to work on the article myself. Proudbolsahye (talk) 23:52, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In the population boom they walk live and die down to earth as variety declines as angoras topping of doodle for years. (178.240.234.218 (talk) 08:39, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racism section turned into separate article 

message: Though there is a link to a separate article on censorship in Turkey, there is no section on press freedom in this article. In view of the dire record of that country in this regard, I believe that a section mentioning the most salient issues is in order. It would be useful to the reader who doesn't have the time or the will to read the whole Censorship in Turkey article, but who would nonetheless like to know the main facts. Γνῶθι σεαυτόν (talk) 19:02, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Freedom of the press 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Human rights in Turkey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060420111307/http://www.coe.int:80/T/e/com/about_coe/member_states/e_tu.asp to http://www.coe.int/T/E/Com/About_Coe/Member_states/e_tu.asp#TopOfPage
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110608032329/http://www.hrw.org/en/node/79412 to http://www.hrw.org/en/node/79412
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110824191622/http://diyarbakirhaber.gen.tr:80/haber-1789-Dicle-Universitesinde-Kurtce-kurs-basladi.html to http://www.diyarbakirhaber.gen.tr/haber-1789-Dicle-Universitesinde-Kurtce-kurs-basladi.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 15:48, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Human rights in Turkey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20071002225033/http://www.extrajudicialexecutions.org/reports/E_CN_4_2002_74_Add_1.pdf to http://www.extrajudicialexecutions.org/reports/E_CN_4_2002_74_Add_1.pdf
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120227033753/http://www.mazlumder.org/ms_word.asp?haber=4784 to http://www.mazlumder.org/ms_word.asp?haber=4784
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:51, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Human rights in Turkey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/historic-verdict-finds-turkish-officials-caused-activist-s-death-custody-2012-10-02
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110613063854/http://www.eurasiareview.com/turkey-destruction-of-ahmet-siks-unpublished-book-a-very-dangerous-precedent-28032011/ to http://www.eurasiareview.com/turkey-destruction-of-ahmet-siks-unpublished-book-a-very-dangerous-precedent-28032011/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081012042448/http://www.disabilityworld.org/12-01_06/mdriturkey.shtml to http://www.disabilityworld.org/12-01_06/mdriturkey.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150116031803/http://www.minorityrights.org/676/press-releases/turkeys-christian-and-other-religious-minorities-face-discrimination-and-rights-violations.html to http://www.minorityrights.org/676/press-releases/turkeys-christian-and-other-religious-minorities-face-discrimination-and-rights-violations.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110928195548/http://www.internal-displacement.org/8025708F004BE3B1/%28httpInfoFiles%29/9B9EAEA8B23C9C19C12575A60053C232/%24file/GO_08_turkey.pdf to http://www.internal-displacement.org/8025708F004BE3B1/%28httpInfoFiles%29/9B9EAEA8B23C9C19C12575A60053C232/%24file/GO_08_turkey.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:46, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified