Talk:List of breweries in Illinois

message: I think it would be better to remove the "Planned breweries" section.  As a general rule of thumb, on Wikipedia it's preferable not to document future events, because they might not actually happen.  And with breweries, sometimes plans are announced but then things end up not working out.  I'd be willing to bet money that the Lagunitas brewery and brewpub in Chicago are going to open soon, but why not wait until that happens and then include them in the article.  So, I've deleted that section.  That said, I'd be open to further discussion. — Mudwater (Talk) 02:42, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to all who have contributed to this article in recent months.  We don't want any Illinois breweries to be missing from the list.  I would also request that no new breweries be added to the article until they are actually open for business.  Most planned breweries do end up happening, but you never know for sure what's going to happen in the future.  Thanks. — Mudwater (Talk) 17:36, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: As I've said, this article should only include breweries that have actually opened for business, since Wikipedia should not document future events.  When it comes to breweries, the more the merrier, but let's wait to add any new ones until they're up and running.  So, about this edit: Hailstorm Brewing is open for business, as it says in the reference.  But BreakRoom Brewery's website says that it's "coming [in] Spring 2014".  Imperial Oak Brewing's website likewise says that it's "scheduled to open in Spring 2014".  The reference for Forbidden Root, a story written 11 days ago, talks about the neighborhood group supporting the plan to open a brewery, and a zoning change still being needed, so that one's definitely still in the planning stages.  And then there's Transient Artisan Ales.  They're brewing and selling beer, but not at their own brewery -- and this article is a list of breweries in Illinois.  The reference says, "Transient is a gypsy operation, without a brew house of its own (hence the name), and for now Betts is using One Trick Pony's facility—an arrangement he acknowledges as odd." Maybe Transient should be moved to the "other beer companies" section of the article. — Mudwater (Talk) 21:50, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I've taken out -- for now -- BreakRoom, Forbidden Root, and Imperial Oak, and I've moved Transient to the "Other beer companies" section. — Mudwater (Talk) 22:11, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems I was mistaken, and Imperial Oak opened for business very recently, so I put it back in the Breweries list.  And Forbidden Root has been in business since last year, contract brewing their beers.  They don't have their own brewery yet, so I'm putting them into the "Other beer companies" section. — Mudwater (Talk) 23:09, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Planned breweries 

message: In the last few days, I've added seven entries to the "Other beer companies" section of the article.  These are brewing companies that are based in Illinois and are currently selling their beer commercially, but they don't have their own breweries, so far anyway.  In my opinion the "Other beer companies" section is a really good place to list these.  The article is "List of breweries in Illinois", and they're not breweries, so they're not in the main "Breweries" list.  But they are a significant and noteworthy part of the Illinois beer scene, so they should still be included in the article, and putting them in this other section is a good way to do it, I think.  As always other editors are encouraged to give their opinions. — Mudwater (Talk) 23:15, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's a brewery, and it's in Illinois, it should be in the main list, even if it didn't originate in Illinois.  In fact, if you look at the main Breweries table you'll see that Lagunitas is already in there.   — Mudwater (Talk) 00:12, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

text: @Mudwater (et al) - there's something I'd like to point out...  You say "if it's a brewery [...]", but note: cider (or perry) & mead are *not* brewed; they are only fermented, like wine.  This could open a pretty big bag of issues, but I do wonder if, in the name of accuracy, they shouldn't be moved out to their own page, or at least section, with notes/links about the difference?  Sake *is* brewed, though I'm not aware of any sake breweries in IL; but I see there is a CLOSED brewer of makgeolli, which could (should?) stay, but maybe could also be separated out.  Alternatively, possibly entries in the table could be color coded to show which are brewed and which are only fermented?  Anyway, just some thoughts from a craft beer (etc) enthusiast and Wikipedia user...  [And this is all very confusing; the Wikipedia article about makgeolli references distilling, but I don't believe it *is* distilled -- if it were, it would likely have a different name (like how distilled wine is called brandy); the Wikipedia article about brewing specifies beer, but not sake, makgeolli, chicha...] 2602:306:3875:DEA9:4C74:F28C:667E:512F (talk) 14:03, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, good point.  Though splitting up the list could be tricky, because a producer might make both beer and cider -- for example, Eris.  But, I've added an explanatory note to the top of the main list, here.  Hopefully that will address this issue.  — Mudwater (Talk) 18:24, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other beer companies 

message: Recently the main Breweries table was reformatted.  The "location and other information" column was broken into three columns -- "location", "brewery opened", and "notes" -- and the columns were made sortable.  Here are links to the  before and after.  I appreciate the effort that was put into this, but the table was better before, so I'm putting it back the way it was.  The issue is that where a brewery is located, or when it opened, can be somewhat complicated, so this information is not really suited to sortable columns.  Furthermore there are different variations on these complications.  Some breweries started as contract brewers, then built their own brewery; others have opened multiple locations over time; others have different types of facilities (for example, a brewpub, and a brewery with a tap room) that opened in different locations at different times; and so on.  This information can all best be explained to the reader in the brief prose, or bullet point type info, in the "location and other information column".  It also makes sorting the columns considerably less helpful, because the location and year information is not singular for some of the breweries, nor does there seem to be any advantage to sorting some of the other columns such as "notes".  Again, I think it's good that different editors are working on improving the article, and I understand the attraction of sortable tables, but in this case we need to focus on overall usability for our readers.  Thanks.  — Mudwater (Talk) 12:11, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: With this edit, the table has been made sortable, but this time without any changes to the "location and other information column".  Sortable tables are cool, and all, but in this case I really think we're better off with a non-sortable table, for two reasons.  (1) It's not that helpful to be able to sort any of the columns of this table, which is already in alphabetical order by brewery.  There's not a big advantage to being able to sort by, for example, the "brewpub" column. (2) I think this will make it more tempting for someone to come along and change the "location and other information" column to have the locations first, but that would make things worse instead of better.  While a lot of the entries do start with the location, plenty of them don't, because they have more interesting and useful information in the form of one or more sentences or sentence fragments.  And I don't think it's that helpful to be able to sort on location, either.  Please see my previous post, immediately above, for more on this subject.  So, I'm going to go ahead and undo the change. — Mudwater (Talk) 00:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

text: "P.S." Another reason that sorting by location would be not that great: Some of the breweries have locations in more than one town.  But it doesn't make sense to list a brewery multiple times because of that. — Mudwater (Talk) 12:03, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Table formatting 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified