Talk:Republican movement (Ireland)

message: The Republican Party - Fianna Fáil in Ireland has nothing to do with these organisations ? Weggie 14:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Republican Party is not mentioned anywhere is the article. The Republican Movement comprises the IRA and Sinn Féin, and is in opposition to all "partitionist" parties, including Fianna Fáil. Scolaire 15:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fianna Fáil

message: I've removed the various primary sources that supposedly prove Peter Taylor wrong. First of all, I'll quote what he said in full. 
Taking each "rebuttal" in turn.
*A Sinn Féin document is being used to reference the sentence . Replacing "Republican Movement" with "IRA" as Taylor suggests is the case results in the sentence . Or, if preferred there is a sentence later in the document which reads , which would result in . Most references would have zero problem with the accuracy of either of those sentences.
*BBC is being used to reference the sentence . Now that Taylor's full quote has been provided, there is no contradiction. When asked people will deny membership of the IRA, since any admission could be used as evidence against them in legal proceedings, but they are quite happy to admit to being a member of the 'Movement' for the exact reason provided by Taylor.
*An Phoblacht is being used to reference the sentence  This is from 2007, whereas Taylor's book is from 1997. In the 10 years quite a lot has happened, the IRA committing to exclusively peaceful means and therefore being supplanted by Sinn Féin. 
One primary source is not sufficient to label Taylor's statement as a claim, and the other two references have been addressed. I am removing several sentences, and rewording an existing one. FDW777 (talk) 22:59, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you re-added the first (members' course) sentence, but not as a "rebuttal" of Peter Taylor, I see no reason why the third (Wolfe Tone commemoration) can't also be re-added on the same basis, as it shows the movement was and remains broader than just the IRA. FTR, I disagree with the quoted sentence by Taylor; I think "civilian" members of Sinn Féin would be insulted to be told they did not belong to the Republican Movement.  Scolaire (talk) 13:19, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't mind it being added back. To me there are two issues, the general use of the term and the use of the term for legal reasons. The Martin Dillon quote on page 24 does go into slightly more detail.  So he's essentially making the same point as Taylor. I don't think either of them are saying the term 'Republican Movement' only means the IRA, only that Republicans often use it in a Monty Python-esque "nudge nudge wink wink" way to avoid any explicit admission of membership of the IRA, or similar organisation, which might lead to prosecution. Perhaps we could try and reword to emphasis the point Taylor and Dillon are making? FDW777 (talk) 13:36, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Martin Dillon on p. 171 says , so both he and Taylor specifically include Sinn Féin in the term. I think the point being made is that IRA members use "the movement" for what you call legal reasons, i.e. to avoid saying out loud that they're IRA members; to Sinn Féiners and the wider public it would still mean the IRA and Sinn Féin. I would be careful of how I interpret Taylor and Dillon. If we were rewording, it would be better to say "Martin Dillon says...while Peter Taylor says...".  Scolaire (talk) 14:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: For the change I hope to make I don't think there's any interpretation involved. I think changing  to something like . How does that sound? FDW777 (talk) 14:59, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that sounds fine. I would probably add, "since membership of the IRA is illegal."  Scolaire (talk) 15:31, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I was going to suggest a similar suffix but wasn't sure if it was necessary or not. FDW777 (talk) 16:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peter Taylor 

message: Out of the Ashes: An Oral History of the Provisional Irish Republican Movement page 201 says (in relation to the dropping of Éire Nua) . I think it might be useful to use some/all of this, in particular the part about overlapping members. FDW777 (talk) 12:40, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. It might be useful to mention it to Leo Varadkar! By all means add it to the article.  Scolaire (talk) 13:19, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  FDW777 (talk) 14:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested addition