Talk:Milton Keynes/Archive 1

message: As a Yank who has been to Milton Keynes a few times, I've heard something about the 
concrete cows.  This article makes a passing reference to them, but doesn't explain what
the concrete cows are all about.  Could someone elaborate?
: The concrete cows were created in the 80's simply as an art project but became something of a symbol for the town. They have been stolen and vandalised and repaired many times over the years, and the original ones were replaced some time ago by some that were less valuable. However they have recently been removed from their secret location and now reside at the National Hockey Stadium as mascots for the MK Dons football team.
::Outsiders don't get it.  They have an image that MK is nothing but sheet concrete and hence the concrete cows.  The reality is that there is an exceptional amount of open space, literally millions of trees and fantastic planting.  --Red King 21:35, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concrete Cows 

message: You put a number of derogatory comments about Milton Keynes. The reality is it IS a clean, efficient, modern and very green 'new city'. It also happens to be one of the cheapest locations for workers in London with a 44 minute train link to Euston. I chose to live in MK because it has a far better lifestyle than anywhere comparable within an hour radius of central London. Certainly far better than London which has problems with illegal immigration, soaring crime and unbelievably expensive housing ie.. rundown flat in central London on dirty high street £1 million, 3 bed detached in best areas of MK £250,000.
Before you 'follow the herd' why don't you go there yourself.
: Please feel free add some material to rectify the balance.  --Red King 21:45, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote from a resident 

message: 195.92.168.172 deleted links because they are hosted by a web design company. They actually seem to be exactly what they claim to be - high resolution photographs of Milton Keynes (first set) and statistics and links for Milton Keynes which are of general interest, but too detailed to be posted directly onto the Wiki. There are no promotional materials or adverts on the pages.
: Yes, I agree.  I've reverted them.  I can do a very special price on the Tower Bridge for anyone who still believes that hit counts matter a jot. If 195.92.168.172 wants to contribute material of similar quality to replace, then we have a fair compromise. The link to miltonkeynes.com was much more overtly commercial so I've removed it. --Red King 21:45, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link deletion by [[User talk:195.92.168.172]] 

message: Is there anybody out there who can answer this question?
I have lived in Milton Keynes for many years now, but one thing about the city has always puzzled me: On every map or road atlas I have ever seen, the "large dot" that represents Milton Keynes does not appear where Central Milton Keynes is. Instead it is always just below the A421 around the area of Beanhill. Why is this?? For every other town and city this dot is always shown where the city centre is! Gp100mk
: My first guess is that they jump to the conclusion that postcode **1 1AA is the General Post Office in the town centre. Try Streetmap or Mulimap with RG1 1AA, LE1 1AA, B1 1AA, BL1 1AA - they all work for the central area.  So stands to reason that MK1 1AA should be in CMK, but it isn't.  The sorting office is in an industrial estate (Dawson Rd, Mount Farm).  My second guess is that they take the nearest convenient co-ordinates: Google Earth takes the nearest "round" WGS84 Lat/Lon to MK1 1AA, which is 52.02N,0.75W, which is on Grafton Street at the SE corner of Coffee Hall.  It's the only reason I can see why they wouldn't have used the far closer 52.04N,0.76W.  [How they managed to put the mythical "Wolverton-Stony Stratford" at 52.03N,0.75W is anybody's guess!]  --Concrete Cowboy 18:29, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Milton Keyes as Shown on a Map

message: Hi just an idea, i live in Milton Keynes, do you think it would be a good idea to include some information about the various districts in MK. I know they might only be small areas but the differance among the houses age and style is quite interesting. (Neostinker 11:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most MK districts aren't really notable to the wide world.  Have a look at :Category:Civil parishes in Milton Keynes Borough because each parish consists of a few districts and in a few I've done some stubs.  See Campbell Park, Milton Keynes.  I was going to do an info-box but haven't had time.  It would be great if you could start developing them, even putting the district stubs into the parish articles would be good.  There is a list of which CP includes which districts on MKWEB here.  (By the way, I don't think that we should use the term "Estate" as it makes outsiders jump to conclusions).  --Concrete Cowboy 18:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Sure. i will be happy to help, i have lots of time off now so i will get taking photos!!! Let me know on my user page if you want me to do anything else :-) (Neostinker 22:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Please do!  For 'how to', see User talk:Dark Artic if you haven't already. --Concrete Cowboy 13:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Districts

message: I've got a couple of pictures from the Bon Jovi concert last year that could be used of the Bowl. Dark Artic 21:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do!  For 'how to', see User talk:Dark Artic if you haven't already. --Concrete Cowboy 13:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: National Bowl

message: Some excellent pictures that "Chris" published on Commons have been deleted by the Commons Administrators because he didn't state the source.  If he can repost them with provenance, please do.  Otherwise, we need to replace them: the most urgent is the MK-G exterior.  Volunteers needed. --Concrete Cowboy 12:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures deleted 

message: There are some hi-res images of Milton Keynes, particularly the concrete cows, available here. 
Royalty free images of Milton Keynes
They are royalty free, so help yourselves. user:Lewisnorth
:Unfortunately, Wikipedia can't use them unless they are free to use for any purpose whatever.  See Commons:Licensing.  --Concrete Cowboy 17:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hi-res images of concrete cows 

message: As the article is already overlength and needs material adding on the economy etc, I've hived off Milton Keynes in popular culture as a separate article.  I suppose I should have asked if anyone objected first!  It's not hard to revert if anyone disagrees. --Concrete Cowboy 17:24, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I started that section and I'm amazed how it's grown. It's a decent standalone article! The main article should ideally have a paragraph summary, I suppose - David Gerard 10:36, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well if you started it, you are probably the best person to summarise it! It is such a rag bag collection, I wouldn't know where to start.  --Concrete Cowboy 12:35, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Since it's been hived off, do you not think it should also be linked to?!  The only pages linking to Milton Keynes in popular culture are this talk page, and David Gerard's talk page.  I'd suggest a "see main article" thingie in the culture section.  192.11.185.114 09:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular Culture 

message: I have no idea if they're locally notable or whatever, but I got an email from them. Could a local please look this one over? - David Gerard 10:36, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that Wiki doesn't do advertising and at present they aren't notable - they only have a fairly low profile web presence.  I'm not convinced. It needs a few more editors to contribute towards a consensus.  The same goes for www.miltonkeynes.com (which got blocked earlier for underhand substitution of its URL).  Maybe we should give web-only start-ups a break, but where do we draw the line between reporting and promoting.  Comments please! --Concrete Cowboy 12:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hmm its a toughie. The site is rather accomplished and updated very very regularily. Going on other towns, such sites are usuaully mentioned somewhere, i guess the point is they're not too numerious, theres only one or two such sites per town as opposed to to other subjects, for example; including such sites on the subject of online gaming or computing would not work. So yeah Bjrobinson 09:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for mention from Ask MK TV 

message: Do we have any contemporary sources about the "new city" status?  What I've found in the London Gazette shows it was just designated as a New Town: and to my mind Telford was just as ambitious an attempt to create a new city (rather than expanding an existing one) as MK.   80.168.29.18 10:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fairly sure that there is something in "The Plan for Milton Keynes" but it'll have to wait until I can get to the Library. --Concrete Cowboy 12:34, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, Telford even had the same target population of 250,000 it appears (although obviously less succesfull).  Morwen - Talk 15:56, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

text: It has nothing to do with the London Gazette, which is merely an outlet printing notices, and everything to do with the actual New Towns Act.  Is there any evidence that Telford wasn't similarly planned as a new city?  Morwen - Talk 22:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: very difficult to prove a negative! might be easier to find proof that it was - presumably there must have been a similar Plan for Telford? and did it say the same things?  (Incidentally, though I don't have the PforMK to hand, I think I recall a reference to the term "new town" as used in the act, as though that was just a legal nicety!)  --Concrete Cowboy 23:50, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, I have an advert in The Times from 1971, placed by the Telford Development Corporation, enticing businesses to move to Telford, saying "we are in the business to build a new city" - "we're building a city the size of Leicester on an area eight times greater".  82.35.9.122 07:50, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And another different one, with the strapline "Telford - the city in the country".  82.35.9.122 07:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  city or not 

message: Where's the name come from? MrZaiustalk 20:45, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The name of a pre-existing village on the site.  Morwen - Talk 08:00, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Quick question

message: Further, the 'access' section again suffers from the problem of bad formatting (random bolding).  Wikipedia isn't a travel guide : this section needs pruning majorly: excessive detail like "where there are storage and changing facilities available" is dubious enough, but in the 'by Air' section it directly addresses the reader!!!  The "News media" section suffers from similar formatting and context problems.  Morwen - Talk 10:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All freesheets, so free to residents.  Sold in shops. --Concrete Cowboy 17:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Right, that's some work done on these issue.  I shall wait to see what the reaction is before proceeding with more major cleanup action, which is anyway long overdue.  Morwen - Talk 11:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All above replies were before reading!  More later.  --Concrete Cowboy 17:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Access and news media

message: :also another thing with the city status section is that it implied there is a such a thing as a "legal town" status in the UK and that Milton Keynes is formally one.  this isn't really true.  the legal definition of town and village is far far far messier than the definitions of borough and city.   We could call it a "large town, locally known as a city" in the intro?  Morwen - Talk 22:10, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: we could, but it is desperately pedantic. --Concrete Cowboy 12:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

text: yes but they are confusing to a foreign reader whereas MK sounds like you'd expect it to (unless you know about the economist).  I thought that the "rhymes with" is deprecated?  Ok,it is a subjective thing. IMHO, putting pronunciation in the intro is excessive detail. If there is a substantial consensus (and I don't think there is), I'll have to accept it. --Concrete Cowboy 12:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: City status again

message: is perhaps an interesting source, being an evaluation of MK by the council Morwen - Talk 09:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Factually correct, though pitched in a begging bowl style to secure a good grant settlement.  (The local whinge is that the annual LA subsidy - from our taxes - is based on the population at census, which penalises growing communities and rewards declining comunities.  Which might be a reasonable policy but is is not announced and is not consistent with the prescott 'pile em high and build em cheap' policy). --Concrete Cowboy 12:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: hmm, i thought it was based on ODPM mid-year estimates now?  15:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Might explain why they've stopped using that excuse.  Strange that they've never said why they stopped, though. --Concrete Cowboy 19:51, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I think we can at least use the identification of a lack of a proper higher educational facility as a problem - is Milton Keynes College the remnants of DMU Milton Keynes, and if not what happened to the latter?  Morwen - Talk 15:50, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, no connection at all.  MKC was Bletchley College.  DMU just cried off hurt, same as at Lincoln and recently at Bedford (see De Montfort University).  The MK site had terrible public transport links and never acheived critical mass.  The MK2031 Plan suggests trying again in Campbell Park, but I can't see that getting agreement - certainly not there anyway.  --Concrete Cowboy 19:51, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: The contemporary press reports record some CPRE-style moans.  But only a tiny number of people were affected.  But if you look at the [modern] letters columns, you'll see storms of abuse.  But feel free to tone it down a bit.  --Concrete Cowboy 17:06, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: The post codes were established shortly after designation, when there was very little in this sub-region. So you can't use it as an example of how it has become, but you might use it to support the case for what was anticipated.  (Amusingly, they assigned MK1 1AA to be the big sorting office in an industrial estated north of Bletchley, causing confusion to Multimap and Google Earth about the location of the centre).  --Concrete Cowboy 17:06, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Point.  I notice MK9 covers Central Milton Keynes!.  I wonder whether you have access to a local postal district map so you could fill in MK postal area on the model of M postal area?  Morwen - Talk 17:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: doing it now.  --Concrete Cowboy 19:51, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Review

message: now we have the promising history of Milton Keynes, I reduced the existing history section somewhat, mainly by pruning minor details.  Morwen - Talk 12:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  history