Talk:Clog

message: I moved this out of Europe into Asia.  Whilst Asia is technically correct, what is the concensus over Asia vs Middle East?  Do we need a proliferation of continents given that there is only one other entry in Asia? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer the Middle East, but for not over categorizing I think Asia is at the moment the best. I am not able to find an example of a Bahrein wooden shoe in Google and therefor I have my doubts if it exist. What I did found were clogs in India: padukas. Strangely it is a high class shoe and not a working class one. The picture shown on Wikipedia seems to be a special form. At Wikimedia I found a picture of a more common model, as you can find more of them at Google. It is not the best picture. Is it an idea to ad this to Asia? Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 12:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

text: Okay, I'll make a text and add it this week. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 13:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bahrain 

message: I've rejigged the lead to note sandal types and to indicate that some clogs are high fashion.  The old section on overshoes only had a single line in it which duplicated what was said in the lead, so I've removed it.  I'm concerned that the lead is getting a little long, so I propose to shortly create a section "types of clogs" above section 1 and move most of the second and third paragraphs into it.  Comments? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:56, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds as a good idea. A section "types of clogs". The Oxford Dictionary definition is a useful way of looking at wooden footwear, but there seems to be some overshoe hybrids. The Indian clog text will take some time. It´s strange wooden footwear to summarize it in a few words. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 07:31, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  I think something needs to be added to the types to cover the bottoms: flat like Dutch/English, feet like Spanish or high towers (geta).  Unless someone beats me to it I may have a go in a week or so's time.  Don't worry about the description of the Indian padukas being a little long, better too much than too little.  Can anyone clarify: how much of the uppers of German and Italian clogs is fabric and how much wood? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:21, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Made some adjustments to the lead section and the section types of clogs. What do you think? Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 13:05, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead 

message: I've just tidied up the citations/notes a little where there was duplication, and have used the templates.  At the moment two forms of citation are used, some are in the notes section and some in the references.  I would like to seek concensus to move all citations to the references section keeping the notes section for notes and page numbers (see for example De Boer-Olij).  If there are no objections I'll try and do it next week. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:05, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Support. A text should use a uniform reference system and not mix up different styles. Dutch surnames with tussenvoegsels often cause confusion. In The Netherlands and in Belgium different rules are used for listing surnames with tussenvoegsels. A Dutch reference is: "Boer-Olij, T. de, ...". Belgians write it as: "De Boer-Olij, T., ...". As I understand the Wikipedia page about "tussenvoegsels", in English the Belgian style is used. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 13:53, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the heads up about the surnames.  Are T. De Boer-Olij and John de Greef Dutch or Belgian, or would you advise adopting the familiar (to English readers) Belgian style uniformly?  Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:13, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Both are Dutch. So both in The Netherlands as in Belgium the tussenvoegsels in both names should be written in lowercase. A lot of Dutch people are not aware of this difference. In this English text the International system overrules all Dutch-Belgian nitpicking. So the tussenvoegsels should be written with a capital. Not mentioned in the Wikipedia page is the (not to common) custom of emigrated Dutch and Belgians who make the tussenvoegsel a part of the name. This is especially the case with the tussenvoegsel "van" and "van de". For example "Jan van der Berg" (Dutch), or Jan Van der Berg (Belgian) into: "Jan Vanderberg" (American). This to preserve the complete name and to avoid continuous misunderstandings. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 14:40, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

text: Great. Made some minor style things. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 05:08, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Clog (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 17:30, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Do you have a citation for the change?  I notice that the Turkish WP uses this same image on tr:Türk_ve_İslam_Eserleri_Müzesi and tr:Sedef_kakma and on both pages refers to them as Takunya.  The Slovakian sk:Drevák and Danish da:Træsko WPs also use the image under the name Takunya, but since I think their articles are a traslation from the English WP, that is not suprising. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:29, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, here's the source I used for this but it would be good to have a more definitive answer. Seems that there is a distinct difference between nalin and takunya - . "Today, instead of the Nalın, wooden slippers called “Takunya” are worn in both new and historical Turkish baths. Takunya are lower-height wooden bathing clogs." -- Fuzheado | Talk 09:57, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for getting back to me on this.  There's not a lot on the internet, but what there is seems to support Dörtbaş.  I've been rooting around on Wikicommons and patching up categories.  I think there is enough now to put together a small article on "Turkish clogs" which will cover takunya, nalin and even mention the plastic slippers.  There appear to be plenty of free images of Nalin but few of Takunya, indeed, the only ones I've seen are at the foot of Dörtbaş's page on which copyright is claimed.  It's lunchtime in the UK, so I may get started this afternoon.  Once I have a basic article hammered out I'll update the main clogs gallery to point to it.  Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:33, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

text:   I've got a stub organised, see Turkish clogs.  I've also redone your original takunya -> nalin change, as well as linking the image to Turkish clogs.  I've been looking for an alternative to Dörtbaş, simply to avoid charges of just using a single source.  Have you any more sources that can be quoted?  Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:34, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Takunya or nalin 

message: An IP user has posted merge tags at the top of Sabot (shoe) and here.  The IP has not created a discussion topic nor provided a rationale other than the edit summary: "The Dutch clog is not called sabot but klomp. Via the language links to other wikipedias, clog links to the correct french page, not this one." on the Sabot page and "Sabot is just french for clog".  I do not believe that this merge suggestion is in bad faith, so I've created this section to open the discussion.
* Keep - the structure of Clog and related terms has been evolved over the last decade to cater for different types, languages and nationalities.  The structure holds together as a whole.  I'll accept that some of the types referenced may be short, but bringing them all together would create an indigestible mess.  Bringing just some for the benefit of a foreign language Wiki is not really our remit and leads to a fractured, chaotic style. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 07:55, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: "In English, I associate the word 'clog' with a covered backless shoe", I think that must be regional rather than linguistic.  In England "clogs" are either English style clogs or Dutch klompen, which agrees with the OED definition as a "wooden soled overshoe" and a "shoe with a thick wooden sole".  However since the 1960s (or thereabouts) Swedish träskors were sold under the DrScholl brand, and I suspect those are what you are thinking of. They were seen as new and exotic and, being Swedish, somewhat sexy.  See Clog (British), Morris dance, Träskor and Clog dance et seq. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:57, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Closing, given the consensus not to merge, the French sabot being sufficiently distinctive to warrant separate discussion. Klbrain (talk) 11:02, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge suggestion 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: not moved. Aside from being a majority, the opposition invokes WP:SINGULAR, which is part of Wikipedia's naming policy.  Favonian (talk) 18:05, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Clog →  – The article itself refers to them exclusively in the plural, and most sources I found about the shoes refer to them exclusively in the plural. This seems to be a rare situation where the plural is the more common term. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 17:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

text: To be precise there are a couple of places in the article where the singular is used.  It is exactly the same as shoe, due to the fact that most people have two feet they tend to have two shoes or clogs.  Indeed shoes is a redirect to shoe.  Unless there is a good reason this does seem a little pointless IMHO. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 18:34, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

text: Oppose. The same argument would hold for shoe, mitten, sock, glove and other things that come almost always in pairs. For consistency we should not change this one either. Arnoutf (talk) 18:39, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Remind me of that the next time I put on my eyeglass and jean, and then cut the tag off with a scissor. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 18:58, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

text: Comment: I think comparison with jeans and glasses is flawed as those objects are undividable (eyeglasses are different from a set of monocles). Flip-flops is closer but I think there the issue is that to cause the onomatopoeia working (i.e. the sound flip...flop...) you always need both of them (to avoid the problem of the sound of a single hand being clapped), so I would argue it is not that similar at all. Arnoutf (talk) 18:17, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 4 January 2023