Talk:Federation of Expellees

message: The Charta der deutschen Heimatvertriebenen (Charter of the Ethnic German Refugees) of August 5, 1950 announced their belief in requiring that "the right to the homeland is recognized and carried out as one of the fundamental rights of mankind given by God", while renouncing revenge and retaliation in the face of the "infinite wrong" of the previous decade, and supporting the unified effort to rebuild Germany and Europe.
This Charter may be called rather far-sighted as the expelled Germans denounced revenge. Surprisingly Poland and the Czech Republic still think in terms of the Cold War, although it was Germany who promoted their wish to become member of the EU.--92.230.232.28 (talk) 15:58, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charter of the Ethnic German Refugees 

message: Under previous governments, especially those led by the CDU, the (West) German government has shown more rhetorical support for the refugeed and expelled Germans. SPD governments have been traditionally less supportive of the Heimatvertriebene and it was under an SPD government under Willy Brandt that recognized the Oder-Neisse line as part of a policy of Ostpolitik.  
Nevertheless, support for the aims of these groups within the German electorate remains low, and recent German governments both CDU and SPD have tended to favor better relationship with Eastern Europe even when this conflicted with the interests of the Heimatvertriebenen. The issue of the Eastern border of Germany and of return of Heimatvertiebene to their original home is an issue which current German governments consider closed.
Holocaust deniers have attached themselves to the issue of the Heimatvertriebenen, and have attempted to use the sympathy for the plight of those Germans who suffered and died in the expulsions to put forward their right-wing agenda. These revisionists attempt to retroactively minimise the suffering of the Holocaust, or to blame the Jews for the suffering of the Heimatvertriebenen.
German right-wing revisionist author and ethnic nationalist Rolf Josef Eibicht has described what has happened to the Heimatvertriebe as "an unparalled genocide, an eviction-Holocaust of the German people, an undescribable thousand-year crime."
The head of the Federation of Expellees, Erika Steinbach, sharply distanced herself from any compensation claims (e.g. those of the organization Prussian Trust Inc.)
There are not many Holocaust deniers in Germany any more, but there are still a lot of Poles and Czechs who consider the ethnic cleansing of their former German citizens as a rightful revenge for Hitler. But in democratic societies there is no "tooth for a tooth and eye for an eye".
Communists and Nazis thought like this.--92.230.232.28 (talk) 16:04, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent developments 

message: * Casualty of War: A Childhood Remembered (Eastern European Studies, 18) Luisa Lang Owen and Charles M. Barber, Texas A&M University Press, January, 2003, hardcover, 288 pages, 
* New York Times article, "Honor the Uprooted Germans? Poles Are Uneasy", by Richard Bernstein, October 15, 2003
* Alfred M. de Zayas: A terrible Revenge. Palgrave/MacMillan, New York, 1994. .
* Alfred M. de Zayas: Die deutschen Vertriebenen. Ares, Graz, 2006. .
* Alfred M. de Zayas: Heimatrecht ist Menschenrecht. Universitas, München, 2001. ISBN 3-8004-1416.
* Norman Naimark: Fires of Hatred. Ethnic Cleansing in Twentieth - Century Europe. Cambridge, Harvard University Press, 2001.
*Steffen Prauser and Arfon Rees: The Expulsion of the "German" Communities from Eastern Europe at the End of the Second World War. Florence, Italy, University Institue, 2004.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.230.232.28 (talk) 16:20, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Further reading

message: Regarding the following wording:
:...fled or were evicted from countries occupied by the Soviet army   
It is neither true nor NPOV. Germans were transferred and expelled also from territories liberated by American army (e.g. western part of Bohemia,  inluding Pllsen, was liberated by US Army). Quite strange is also use of word "occupied". Red army soldiers were seen as liberators and welcome in 1945 Czechoslovakia. Word "occupied" is appropriate from German perspective -which is typical for whole aticle. Long way to NPOV.   
81.27.192.16 23:56, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  fled or were evicted from "countries occupied by the Soviet Union" 

message: Are these edits unbiased and correct? Because they come from an editor whose neutrality and honesty in these issues I highly doubt.NightBeAsT 11:41, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are searching for example of person who wasn't an ethnic German in Poland, didn't posses any property in Poland, and found herself in Poland as result of military occupation by German Reich-see no further then Erica Steinbach.
Likewise the term expelled refers to ALL Germans that moved to Germany after the war.Regardles of the reasons they found themself abroad-thus it also includes German colonists settled after 1939.
--Molobo 16:55, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Nightbeast personally I am puzzled why this so to.I don't think people like Steinbach should be classified as "Expelled" unlike those moved from their homes in territories given to Poland after WW2, I would like to know what made German government decide to make such a decision.
--Molobo 17:02, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Yes, IMHO these edits are correct and unbiased (mayby not spelled political correctly), but is need to say, parts of post-WWII expelles was neo-colonist which moved to ocupied parts of europe, after German victories (booth military or peacefull (anexation of sudetenland and later creating Protectorate of Bohmen and Mahren)), and have no rights for compensation, but are most active in cry for this.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimatvertriebene
"§ 2 des BVFG sagt dazu aus:
* Ein Heimatvertriebener ist, wer am 31. Dezember 1937 oder bereits einmal vorher seinen Wohnsitz in dem Gebiet desjenigen Staates hatte, aus dem er vertrieben worden ist (Vertreibungsgebiet) und dieses Gebiet vor dem 1. Januar 1993 verlassen hat; die Gesamtheit der ehemals unter fremder Verwaltung stehenden deutschen Ostgebiete und die Gebiete außerhalb der Grenzen des Deutschen Reiches nach dem Gebietsstande vom 31. Dezember 1937), die am 1. Januar 1914 zum Deutschen Reich oder zur Österreichisch-Ungarischen Monarchie oder zu einem späteren Zeitpunkt zu Polen, zu Estland, zu Lettland oder zu Litauen gehört haben, gilt als einheitliches Vertreibungsgebiet.
* Als Heimatvertriebener gilt auch ein vertriebener Ehegatte oder Abkömmling, der die Vertreibungsgebiete vor dem 1. Januar 1993 verlassen hat, wenn der andere Ehegatte oder bei Abkömmlingen ein Elternteil am 31. Dezember 1937 oder bereits einmal vorher seinen Wohnsitz im Vertreibungsgebiet (Absatz 1) gehabt hat.
Die begriffliche Unschärfe versinnbildlicht sich in der Person der Vorsitzenden des Bundes der Heimatvertriebenen Erika Steinbach, die als Tochter eines Luftwaffenoffiziers aus Hanau und einer Mutter aus Bremen ihre ersten 18 Lebensmonate in dem Ort Rahmel verbrachte, wo ihr Vater stationiert war."
As you can see the law is controversial since it stretches out to 1993, and I can assure you that many people probably left Poland in later years for economic reasons and weren't "expelled". Furthermore the law denies the existance of Poland after 1918 treating it as German territory.And add to that it is worded in such a way that it makes German colonists removed from Poland qualifiy for status of "expelled"--Molobo 17:16, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Molobo, if I wanted to hear your opinion, dear student of International relations and Social communication, I would have asked you. However (for reasons stated above) I have not asked you but yearned for a third opinion on this all from sb who knows a lot about it and at the same time is detached.NightBeAsT 17:45, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  September 18 edits 

message: The Federation has more than 50 years of history. Why so little about it?
Xx236 13:20, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of the Federation 

message: It's the list of German "lands", available probably under Germany. Will ever someone write articles about Landesverbände? I would remove the list.
Xx236 09:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Landesverbände 

message: One of them was made by SS-officer who took part in murder of Lwow professors. 
--Molobo 10:50, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Landsmannschaften

message: The Erika Steinbach article has been protected to encourage editors to resolve an edit war over the wording of her place of birth (in essence Rahmel vs. Rumia and text describing its location in German-occupied Poland).  There is a vote going on at Talk:Erika Steinbach regarding how to word the place of birth.  Please express your opinion on this issue if you have one.
--Richard 20:24, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthplace of Erika Steinbach 

message: why is it that the centre against expulsions is controversial because it pays more attention to the expulsion of Germans, but the Holocaust Museum in Washington is not controversial when it only focuses on one genocide?
--Jadger 02:56, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I say we focus on all genocides equally.  That will solve most of the political debates pretty fairly in a method that is possibly scientifically justifiable.  Nonprof. Frinkus 09:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: just a question

message: German soldiers occupying Poland, policemen killing Polish people, Arbeitsamt officials running slavery system didn't inhabit Poland for centuries. They came between 1939-1944 but are regarded as expelled.Xx236 07:48, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  they had inhabited for centuries 

message: “Charter of the Ethnic German Expellees” - is this translation a joke? Jonny84 (talk) 15:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charter 

message: This section shouldn't be removed; instead it should be expanded. I have read many articles critical of the FoE, the article focuses only one one or a two. The organization is very controversial in Poland; but what about Germany itself? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  18:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism 

message: :de:Bund der Vertriebenen#Mitgliedschaft quotes several sources in German criticizing claims of the Federation that it has 2 000 000 members. Xx236 (talk) 08:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats why it is butressed by the phrase "The Federation claims", rather than being stated as fact. - Schrandit (talk) 17:29, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The organizations who create the Federation pay fees for 100 000 members. According to Erika Steinbach the number  http://www.dradio.de/dlf/sendungen/idw_dlf/711793/ is a little underestimated to pay less (ein bisschen herunter gerechnet). "ein bisschen" doesn't make 2 000 000.Xx236 (talk) 11:58, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The number of members 

message: The history section is missing. It only covers the events that led to formation of BDV,but what is lacking is half the century of its existance and events that took place within the organisation. For example the attempts to keep Munich Agreement from being retroactively annulled  in late 1966.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 18:08, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section is missing 

message: The Upper Silesian Landmanschaft actually counts members from Geramns of territories ceded to Poland in 1921, other landmanschaften contain people who moved out of Eastern Germany.
After the expulsion: West Germany and Eastern Europe, 1945-1990 Pertti Ahonen page 32
--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 18:33, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting information-they actually count people from before the war and those moving out of East Germany. 

message: Is it available online with signatures?
Are following names signed underneath it:Rudolf Wagner,Waldemar Kraft,Alfred GilleGottlieb Leibbrandt,Walter von Keudell,Franz Hamm,Karl Mocker,Josef Walter,Erik von Witzleben,Rudolf Lodgman von Auen?
--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 19:46, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Signed byXx236 (talk) 07:19, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charter of the German Expellees 

message: Another BdV scandal, this time BdV member claims Second World War was a chance for which Poles and Czechs waited according to the newsource. Another one according to the news tried to shift blame about WW2 from Germany to other countries.
--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 20:38, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another BDV scandal 

message: The section doesn't inform about critics of the Charter.Xx236 (talk) 07:09, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charter of the German Expellees - POV 

message: Unless this is their official english name, I would recommend the translation of the German word "Bund" to be "association" and not "federation" here.
212.60.196.82 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title "Federation" vs "Association"