Talk:Ryan (surname)

message: The Girl's version (1st name) is Ryanie.--86.29.254.167 15:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feminine form 

message: I've heard the motto for Ryan is something like "Death Before Dishonour". Shoul dthis be added? 194.69.198.244 (talk) 16:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motto 

message: The surname "Ryan" is well-known among name etymologists as being *the* most common European name whose origin is completely unknown. The "little king" etymology especially is thought to be total nonsense, and was probably invented in the late 19th or 20th century by one of those awful businesses that sell fake "family crests" to people who don't like the fact that they are commoners like the rest of us.
Ryan has no known meaning. If it has a motto, it's also been thought up in the last 50 years by a business who hoped to make money off the invention, which hardly makes it notable. 
And if anyone's wondering about "English bias", of the five etymologists I've made reference to, two are or were Irish, one was an extreme Welsh nationalist, and two are or were Americans. I'm neither English nor Irish and don't care about European politics. I just don't like nonsense invented by the unreliable family crest business getting into what should be a fact-based encyclopedia. --NellieBly (talk) 10:38, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Such a nest of total and complete unreliability

message: This point of to what degree it is agreed by etymologists that the origin of the name is unknown is a peculiar one, since to a large degree these kinds of etymologies are always speculative and not 100% provable and just a matter of judgment of probability by etymologists. I'm not sure how one proves a consensus for such things (even when they are positives let alone negatives) adequately for wikipedia standards.
My point is just that surely some etymologists have speculations on its origin, and even if there is no single broad consensus about one of them, I wonder if the consensus of it being unknown is not overstated here, to the point of sweeping away any such speculations as rubbish that shouldn't even be mentioned.
By the way, I'm not criticizing the well supported statements here about the popular "little king" meaning being considered unlikely. This is a positive statement ("this meaning is considered rubbish") much easier to support than a negative statement ("no one knows").
--Ericjs (talk) 18:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, i think an editor's personal opinion of what is 'correct' and 'incorrect' has crept in. At the same time i think that 'baby name' type websites aren't good enough references to be used for etymologies.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 08:54, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

text: I noticed that the statement "Etymologists consider the name's meaning to be completely unknown, and view the "little king" etymology as a pseudo-genteel affectation meant to make a common name seem more noble than it really is" is sourced from Reaney, A Dictionary of English Surnames. I've got that book, and can only find Ryan once within. It is within a paragraph concerning the dropping of prefixes ... "Mac were frequently dropped. Ryan may be for O’Mulryan".--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:25, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  proving etymological concensus 

message: Do etymologists rule out the straightforward and obvious Old Irish "rían" (sea, course, etc.) as a likely origin? I've seen this explanation in at least one place on the internet, but cannot vouch for the reliability of the source, except to verify that this is indeed an Old Irish word.--Ericjs (talk) 19:28, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old Irish "rían"