Talk:African Lakes Corporation

message: There is mention of a chain of stores that the company operated in the 1910s and Mandala Motors in 1924, but the next chronological mention of it doing business is a paragraph about motorcar dealerships in the UK in the 1980s. Does anyone have sources to fill in the missing 60 years? 8.19.241.10 (talk) 23:57, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing 60 years of history?

message: In February 2016, a contributor, Scottishorchid made two edits which deleted a number of well-sourced comments and, without providing any new sources, added a number of biased comments in favour of the company. These were mainly reverted in the same month by the contributor, Iliolo Wanderer, but in May 2016 Scottishorchid restated some of their previous non-neutral content under the guise of a minor edit “Tidying up a little”.
Scottishorchid wishes to portray the 19th Century African Lakes Company as a philanthropic venture, but three issues, making war on Mlozi and other Swahili traders, trying to obtain a charter similar to that obtained by Rhodes for Rhodesia to give it a degree of sovereignty and its claim to ownership of about 2.7 million acres of land, which it obtained through sharp practice if not fraud all seem less than altruistic. In addition, the company acted as a commercial operation and the exchange of guns and ammunition for ivory does not seem to be anything other than what European traders with no missionary links were doing.
The sources that contradict Scottishorchid are:
J McCraken, (2012). A History of Malawi, 1859-1966 Woodbridge, James Currey pp. 49, 51-52. 
From 1883, the African Lakes Company had set up a base in Karonga to exchange ivory for trade goods. The ivory was mainly provided by a Swahili trader named Mlozi, who also traded in slaves (p.49). In 1886, the company tried to obtain a charter giving it political control over the River Shire-Lake Nyasa area, which was refused by the government of Lord Salisbury, following protests from the missionaries in Blantyre (p.51). About this time, the company’s relationship with Mlozi and other Swahili traders deteriorated, partly because of its delays in providing suitable trade goods, principally guns and ammunition, but partly as the Swahili traders turned more to slaving, and began to attack Ngonde (also called Nyakyusa) communities that the company had promised to protect (pp.51-2). After some attempts at negotiating a settlement between the Swahili traders and Ngonde chiefs failed, the African Lakes Company began to intervene on behalf of the Ngonde, with limited success (p.52). Fighting took place between November 1886 and December 1887 and again from April 1888 to March 1889. In the latter phase, it engaged Captain Lugard of the Indian Army, later Frederick Lugard, 1st Baron Lugard to attack stockades built by the Swahili traders in June 1888 and January and February 1889, without success.
B. Pachai, (1967). In the Wake of Livingstone and the British Administration: Some Considerations of Commerce and Christianity in Malawi. The Society of Malawi Journal, Vol. 20, No. 2
These encounters are also documented by Pachai (pp. 59-60), as the “Arab War of 1887-89”, so named as the Swahili traders claimed to be of Arab descent, and he also confirms the African Lakes Company’s attempt to obtain a charter. In the same paper, Pachai makes it clear that, whatever its founders’ intentions, the company operated in Nyasaland on a purely commercial basis (pp. 58-9) and, until the imposition of a British Protectorate in 1889, like such missions as Blantyre mission, which flogged, and in one case executed, local Africans (pp.51-2) it exercised a form of quasi-judicial authority over the areas it controlled. 
      
B Pachai, (1978) Land and Politics in Malawi 1875-1975 Kingston 1978, Limestone Press. pp. 40, 170-3
The African Lakes Company claimed to have acquired ownership of about 2.7 million acres in the north of Nyasaland (about 10% of the land area of the protectorate) mainly in the hope of finding valuable minerals there (p.40). It claimed to have made treaties from 1885 onwards with a number of Chiefs in the area, but in 1929, the Reed Report questioned the validity of the claims. Leaving aside whether chiefs, who were custodians of communal lands rather than landowners, could alienate lands, many of those who had supposedly adhered to the treaties could not be identified, if identifiable were not chiefs and if chiefs were unaware of the meaning of the treaty. In 1930, the company surrendered its title in exchange for confirmation of mineral rights over the same area. Details of the treaties are in: Foreign Office FO 881/6383: Memorandum on Land Claims in the British Central Africa Protectorate, August 1893. An Annexe at pp 79-91 lists the texts of 15 “treaties” made before The British Central African Protectorate was proclaimed in 1889.
Once the British South African Company acquired control of the company in 1893, it lost its former connection with the Free Church of Scotland and, whatever had been its aim before, it became part of an exploitative operation.Sscoulsdon (talk) 14:51, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  How philanthropic was the African Lakes Corporation? 

message: In February 2016, user Scottish Orchid said of a supposedly revived African Lakes Company:
 
However, in January 2018, the same user changed this to: 
Quite apart from African Lakes Company Ltd (company number SC463944) having no connection with the African Lakes Corporation incorporated in 1877, the question is whether the group of Scottish investors and the support of the Scottish and Malawian Governments etc, date from 2013 or 2017, if either. A Companies House search shows that, although this company was incorporated in 2013, it was dormant and had only one director and shareholder until at least late 2016, so any group of Scottish investors or support of the Scottish and Malawian Governments in 2013 seems improbable. New investors did acquire shares in the company in 2017, but using almost exactly the same wording as for the supposed 2013 project is suspect. I can find nothing in public sources to say what these investors intended and what the attitude of the two governments was. Unless the statement can be supported from a credible source or sources, it should be deleted.
Also in January 2018, again tried to whitewash the old African Lakes Corporation, deleting a properly sourced reference to it having political ambitions in Central Africa and altering the description of the Swahili traders to slave traders. The Swahili's main business was in ivory with slaves as a side line and the dispute between them and the African Lakes Corporation was not the company crusading against the slave trade (seeKaronga War).
Sscoulsdon (talk) 16:43, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misinformation