Talk:Beriah Magoffin

message: One obvious point: the "intro" section was far too long and included a great deal of material that belonged in the article.
:I do not think the lead was (is) "far too long". Based upon the guidelines given at WP:LEAD#Length, a two-paragraph lead is acceptable. While the current lead is three paragraphs, it could just as easily be made two by combining the short third paragraph with the second one.
An intro should give essential data and summarize the important points of the article; it should not go into details.
In this case - the intro includes obviously misplaced material such as the details of how it was arranged for Magoffin to select his successor.
This practically duplicated a section of the main article, and in fact was over half of the "intro".
:I think it's important that the reader know that Magoffin hand-selected his successor; that's part of what makes him interesting and notable. It's the only time it ever happened in the state's 200+ year history. And if we mention that he hand-selected his successor, then we have to explain why the normal chain of succession was not followed.
:Moreover, I think it is manifestly clear that Magoffin would not have resigned absent this provision. If I read that a politician resigned, I'd like to know why. Failing to mention the conditions of his resignation leaves the reader with the false impression that he just decided it wasn't worth fighting with the Unionist legislature and gave up, which was not the case.
:All that said, if the lead must be trimmed, here's what I would suggest doing with the second paragraph:
In special elections held in June 1861, Unionists captured nine of Kentucky's ten congressional seats and obtained two-thirds majorities in both houses of the state legislature. Despite Magoffin's strict adherence to the policy of neutrality, [T]he Unionist legislators did not trust [Magoffin] and routinely overrode his vetoes. Unable to provide effective leadership [under these conditions]due to a hostile legislature, Magoffin agreed to resign as governor in 1862, provided he could choose his successor. Lieutenant governor Linn Boyd had died in office, and Magoffin refused to allow Speaker of the Senate John F. Fisk to succeed him as governor. Accordingly, Fisk resigned and the Kentucky Senate elected Magoffin's choice, James F. Robinson, as speaker. Magoffin then resigned, Robinson ascended to the governorship, and Fisk was re-elected as Speaker of the Senate.
This narrative - in both places - referred to the "Speaker of the Senate", which is wrong (the House has a Speaker, the Senate has a President Pro Tem).
:Not under the 1850 Constitution, which was the one in force at the time of these events. See here (page 51, the second paragraph under "Gubernatorial Provisions"). In the 1891 constitution, it was changed to President Pro Tem of the Senate and made a permanent office, but it was essentially the same position. As this document points out, the change was economically motivated so that the Senate would not have to convene in the event of a vacancy in the lieutenant governor's office. What this document doesn't mention is that, until 1992, the lieutenant governor's absence from the state constituted a (temporary) vacancy in his office, so this was a very real concern.
The intro also duplicated other pieces of the main article, and lacked key information, such as Magoffin's party affiliation.
:The party affiliation can be worked in I'm sure, but the lead will, of a necessity, duplicate other parts of the main article. Per WP:LEAD: "The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article ... The lead should define the topic, establish context, explain why the subject is interesting or notable, and summarize the most important points—including any prominent controversies." I don't think you can do that without duplicating content.
The other main part of this edit was to convert the references to a consistent useful format.
:Maybe you can elaborate on your issue with the references. I'm sure we can reach some agreement there.
I do see one thing that I should have done differently: the link to the NPS document on the Magoffin Monument should have been preserved - but as an in-line reference only.
:I think it does no harm to have the link both in-line and in the bibliography, but this will be a minor quibble, I think.
Yes, I prefer short paragraphs and sentences. I find them much easier to read.
:We can talk about specific instances, but per WP:BETTER#Paragraphs: "One-sentence paragraphs are unusually emphatic, and should be used sparingly." I count eight such paragraphs in your revision.
Rich Rostrom (Talk) 05:33, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Responses in-line above. Acdixon (talk • contribs • iki=wikipedia&lang=en  count) 15:08, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Justification of recent edit 

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