Talk:Balance wheel

message: Chetvorno, you reverted an edit of mine on temperature compensated balance wheels. I noted in my edit that the compensation doesn't cause the balance to turn faster or slower and you replied "Yes, it does. Lower moment of inertia = higher acceleration = higher angular velocity = higher freq, compensating for freq lowering effect of spring."
I understand what you mean, but the balance can't actually be allowed (by the designer) to oscillate at a higher frequency to compensate for the frequency lowering effect of spring, because if it did, then the watch would not keep accurate time. The objective of the designer of the watch is to keep the balance oscillating, as nearly as possible, at the *same* frequency all the time, whatever the temperature.
What actually happens is that as the higher temperature causes the spring to become weaker, the moment of inertia of the balance is reduced by the curving in of the bimetallic arms of the balance. These two effects happen together, and the reduction in the moment of inertia of the balance is designed to keep in step with (to "compensate" for) the reduced strength of the balance spring, so that as the spring becomes weaker it can still accelerate the balance at the same rate as before, and the balance then oscillates at the same frequency, preserving the timekeeping of the watch.
I hope this clarifies things and the reason for my edit. I don't want to get into a to and fro reverting each others edits so I hope we can reach an agreement that we are both happy with.
David.Boettcher 18:15, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I didn't mean to be abrupt or callous in reverting your edit.  I agree with your analysis above.  But I felt that your wording, "A temperature increase makes the arms bend inward toward the center of the wheel, and the shift of mass inward reduces the moment of inertia of the balance, compensating for the reduced couple produced by the weaker balance spring" was not as clear for readers lacking a science background as the ice skater analogy.  However I take your point that the original wording promotes the misconception that the compensation causes the balance frequency to "change".  Let me look at it again. --ChetvornoTALK 20:25, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

text: I think the additional explanation is a little confusing, and your original edit was better.  I restored it, except for changing the rather technical term "couple" to the slightly more accessible "torque".   --ChetvornoTALK 16:42, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temperature compensation section 

message: The opening para of this section has now been copyedited to death (including by me).  It used to read;
:After the balance spring was added, a major remaining source of inaccuracy was the effect of temperature changes. Early watches had balance springs made of plain steel, and balances of brass or steel, and these were affected by temperature to the extent that the rate of even the earliest balance spring watches watch was noticeably affected.
This could have been intended to mean that early balance spring watches were inaccurate for reasons other than temperature effects, but even so, the temperature error was still very noticeable.  If so, that point has been entirely lost in the copyediting.  However, I have not put it back because I am not knowledgable enough on the subject to know if that is true and it is kind of self-contradictory with the opening sentence saying the remaining major source of inaccuracy was temperature changes. SpinningSpark 14:04, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temperature error 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article mentions that a balance wheel is a harmonic oscillator. It might also be worth mentioning that the verge and foliot escapement, of which the balance wheel was an improvement, was a kind of relaxation oscillator. In a harmonic oscillator, the dynamic interplay between the inertia of the balance wheel and the restoring force provided by the spring obeys a simple and predictable physical law. A relaxation oscillator, on the other hand, continually and abruptly switches back and forth between two different states. Insignificant-seeming variations in the timing of the mechanism that underlies those abrupt changes can accumulate, making the rate of a relaxation oscillator somewhat variable and difficult to predict.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.111.96.172 (talk) 16:46, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, good idea.  It requires a source that says the verge and foliot escapement was a relaxation oscillator.  Do you know of one?  I'll look around. --ChetvornoTALK 19:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harmonic oscillator vs... 

message: The article is kinda unintuitive with describing how it works at the beginning. It requires an animated diagram. I feel it correctly describes a flywheel but doesn't actually explain the flywheel for someone who doesn't already know what a flywheel is. There is a distinction.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.98.178.115 (talk) 04:34, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: A balance wheel is not a flywheel; they work differently --ChetvornoTALK 09:54, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

text: I think you’re right though. There is a video, but a diagram would be helpful. I’ll look around --ChetvornoTALK 23:23, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  simple animated diagram