Talk:Ducie Island

message: There is no such person as the Baron Curtis Ducie of Warkworth, Canada.  And Baron Francis Ducie is not the great great great great grandfather of this person. I am deleting this false claim. 
Davelapo555 22:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baron Curtis Ducie 

message: I downloaded and read the reference entitled "DUCIE ATOLL: ITS HISTORY, PHYSIOGRAPHY AND BIOTA" and these statements are not supported by the reference.  In this reference the exploration conducted in 1975 revealed the lagoon to be almost complete dead with very little life.  In addition the lagoon (in the reference) is described as less than 53 feet deep (not an especially deep lagoon).
I think the confusion is that the reference does catalog many dangerous sharks outside the lagoon which were captured and cataloged.  But in no reference could I find any information on poisonous fish or sharks inside the lagoon.
I recommend editing this to say that there are sharks found outside the lagoon.
Evan1261 (talk) 19:43, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The lagoon is deep and noted for its poisonous fish and dangerous sharks.[2]  

message: I've had a look through this article myself, and have a few further queries. This is just an aside to the GA assessment, and has no bearing of course on whether or not its promoted. Just some things I thought might be good to be clarified. Benea (talk) 11:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: *I changed the link back to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office as being more appropriate by the way. The FCO is the successor of the FO, and given that we don't have a specific article on the history of the FO before its merger with the Commonwealth Office in 1968, is the best link to have. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs is also a modern title which postdates Simmon's despatch, and came into existence at the same time as the merger of the FO and CO in 1968. Reports would be made to the office rather than directly to the Secretary, then as now. Also the minister responsible for the Pitcairn Island situation in 1902 would not have been the Foreign Secretary, but the Secretary of State for the Colonies. Benea (talk) 09:24, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, it was my own confusion after all. About your suggestions: 
*After some reading, I could clarify what was really the name of the island and why some sources call it La Encarnación. 
*I tried to back up with the source the part of the history section that talks about the knowledge of the Pitcairners about the existence of Ducie. 
*One of the links given by J Milburn (reviewer) could help to clarify what happened with the claim of the U.S. Since the article is in a web page called JSTOR (that requires some kind of subscription) I already asked him for some help with that.--GDuwenTell me! 22:16, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

text: *I have Jstor access, and the article - Beatrice Orent and Pauline Reinsch, 'Sovereignty over Islands in the Pacific', The American Journal of International Law, Vol. 35, No. 3, Jul., 1941,  pp. 443-461. - is an interesting read, though there is not much on Ducie specifically. Page 447 states that unlike Henderson and Elizabeth islands, which were annexed in July 1902, Ducie was not claimed until 1903, when it was visited by HMS Consul. Ducie and Elizabeth were visited in July 1937 by HMS Leander, and it was thought that they 'might prove valuable as seaplane bases'. Benea (talk) 22:41, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the information regarding the plane base and the annexion. I think that the article gives a good explanation of why lands like Ducie were not annexed by the United States or the United Kingdom just because they were discovered by them, that actually might have led to the formal accession of the island.--GDuwenTell me! 00:04, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional comments 

message: * seems to indicate an element of doubt over which island was named which by de Queirós. This perhaps should be mentioned.
*La Encarnación I assume refers to Incarnation (Christianity)? 
*The 'Sovereignty' section jumps quickly from the US claim in 1867 to being included in the UK governance in the South Pacific in 1902. Is there any reason the US did not exploit the claim? Why was the claim made in the first place, and who by?
*The source used actually says '...it would appear doubtful if they had ever in fact visited Ducie Island before and, due to its distance from Pitcairn and the lack of appropriate vessel, it is more than likely that visits to Henderson Island were then very few and far between. Certainly thay have not visited Ducie since 1902.' i.e. the distance and boat issue are being ascribed to Henderson Island, and it merely says it was doubtful they had visited Ducie, without giving a reason for that doubt. The article uses the distance/boat issue and applies it to Ducie however. 
*'The lagoon is mainly composed of death coral due to influxes of cold water by the boat passage in the Southwest' - does this mean dead coral, or is death coral a certain type of coral? From the context I suspect the former, but I can't be certain. Does the 'boat passage' mean the channel into the lagoon referred to earlier, or the passage of boats, i.e. some disturbance caused by boats entering or leaving the lagoon? Benea (talk) 23:33, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: *I changed the link back to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office as being more appropriate by the way. The FCO is the successor of the FO, and given that we don't have a specific article on the history of the FO before its merger with the Commonwealth Office in 1968, is the best link to have. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs is also a modern title which postdates Simmon's despatch, and came into existence at the same time as the merger of the FO and CO in 1968. Reports would be made to the office rather than directly to the Secretary, then as now. Also the minister responsible for the Pitcairn Island situation in 1902 would not have been the Foreign Secretary, but the Secretary of State for the Colonies. Benea (talk) 09:24, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, it was my own confusion after all. About your suggestions: 
*After some reading, I could clarify what was really the name of the island and why some sources call it La Encarnación. 
*I tried to back up with the source the part of the history section that talks about the knowledge of the Pitcairners about the existence of Ducie. 
*One of the links given by J Milburn (reviewer) could help to clarify what happened with the claim of the U.S. Since the article is in a web page called JSTOR (that requires some kind of subscription) I already asked him for some help with that.--GDuwenTell me! 22:16, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

text: *I have Jstor access, and the article - Beatrice Orent and Pauline Reinsch, 'Sovereignty over Islands in the Pacific', The American Journal of International Law, Vol. 35, No. 3, Jul., 1941,  pp. 443-461. - is an interesting read, though there is not much on Ducie specifically. Page 447 states that unlike Henderson and Elizabeth islands, which were annexed in July 1902, Ducie was not claimed until 1903, when it was visited by HMS Consul. Ducie and Elizabeth were visited in July 1937 by HMS Leander, and it was thought that they 'might prove valuable as seaplane bases'. Benea (talk) 22:41, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the information regarding the plane base and the annexion. I think that the article gives a good explanation of why lands like Ducie were not annexed by the United States or the United Kingdom just because they were discovered by them, that actually might have led to the formal accession of the island.--GDuwenTell me! 00:04, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional additional comments

message: * Bird populations: (paragraph 2 of lead section) I've provided a reference to the IUCN Red List to verify the 90% population of Murphy's Petrel. Unfortunately, the IUCN entries for the Red-tailed Tropicbird and the Fairy Tern make no mention of Ducie Island, so other references are needed for those statements. --Stfg (talk) 10:56, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh I see, it's in the Ramsar Information Sheet. I have put a reference in the lead, though, per WP:LEADCITE --Stfg (talk) 12:31, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the IUCN Red List entry gives figures amounting to more than 90% for Murphy's Petrel. As this reference is the more recent and is also reliable, I've used this one for the Murphy's. --Stfg (talk) 20:18, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

text: User:GDuwen has now resolved these issues. --Stfg (talk) 10:56, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matters arising from GOCE copyedit 

message: Concerning Pitcairner visits to Ducie, the article states that "This claim is contested by Donald McLoughlin on grounds of the distance between Pitcairn Island and Ducie Island and the lack of a suitable boat to navigate the distance between the two, casting doubt on whether they had ever visited Ducie." Though this statement is published in McLoughlin's book, "Laws of Pitcairn, Henderson, Ducie and Oeno Islands." (1971), this is very much a POV statement in the original work. It seriously makes me wonder if he has even visited Pitcairn. The Pitcairners could travel there in the same way, and in the same boats, as they have always regularly visited the nearer islands of Oeno and Henderson. As a matter of fact (and I recognize it is not referenced), my late father-in-law, Walter G. Ferris, who was island Pastor for 4 years during the 1960s, did visit Ducie with Pitcairn Islanders, in the usual open boats they use for other inter-island travel. Admittedly visits to Ducie are rare - there is little incentive for the Pitcairners to go there - unlike Oeno (holidays) and Henderson (for miro wood for carvings). But McLoughlin's claim should be treated as POV. Ptilinopus (talk) 10:58, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sovereignty 

message: In the box, under "Ducie Island", I read, "Native name: Fenua-manu". I find this an amazing statement. In some polynesian languages this would mean "Land of Birds", or "Birdland". But no such language is spoken on Pitcairn Island, who know it only as Ducie. And no other island peoples have connection or claim or link to it. And since it is uninhabited, in whose language is the "native name" - and who gave it that name? The only place I can find reference to this name outside of clones of the Wikipedia article, in in "The Mutineer. A Romance of Pitcairn Island", a novel by Louis Becke(1855-1913) and Walter Jeffery (1861-1922), from alleged conversation between Fletcher Christian and Tahitian men on board - none of whom were alive when the authors were born. Does anyone know a more authentic source? Otherwise, this "native name" should be deleted. Ptilinopus (talk) 11:04, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: --Closeapple (talk) 16:05, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Native Name 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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