Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Television stations task force/Archive 2

message: Should the infobox have a section for cable channels? Especially if the station brands by its cable channel (e.g. WWSB) or is a cable only station (e.g Bay News 9) --CFIF 19:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You brought up a broadcast station, so... eeuggh. What cable channel a station will have varies from cable provider to cable provider, and can vary depending on where in a market you are even on the same cable provider. It's not uncommon for even VHF stations to be moved to a different channel than the one they broadcast on, especially on Time Warner systems. (I've even seen a market's VHF stations shuffled around and yet not leave the general VHF 2-13 area, or even move all of a single channel number. Um... what was the point? This is especially maddening with stations that identify by their over-the-air channel, which is still incredibly common.) It's possible, and maybe even occasionally useful, but it probably won't get used in certain cases, or will become a long list that will dominate the infobox. Morgan Wick 06:58, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cable channels (infobox) 

message: Does anyone know what market Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, PA are in?
i'm guessing either Philly, or Wilkes-Barre/Scranton...
Raccoon Fox 04:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They are considered to be in the Philadelphia Market. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 04:29, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allentown 

message: I have just added sections for Goals, Projects, and Tasks to the Project page. I felt that we were missing these sections that other Wikiprojects seem to use quit effectively. I know that this is kinda bold, but I don't think anyone will object to the idea of these sections. I'm not so positive about the contents of these sections. I based these off of what I've seen done in this project of late. Please add, and if you feel the need remove, content from these sections. I was most unsure about the Goals section, does anyone have any suggestions for what to put there? —A 09:30, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goals, Projects, Tasks. 

message: Would anyone have a problem with moving the template from it's current form - :Template:Infobox Broadcast to Infobox Television station which is currently a redirect to a Television Network infobox?  This would bring it in line with the radio stations Infobox Radio station.  This conversion could be semi-automated with the AutoWikiBrowser.  I don't assume that there would be any objections but I just want to make sure.  --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 20:23, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I object. Why don't we convert the television infobox (far superior) for radio use or just leave it as it is. --CFIF 20:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I woudn't try to convert the television infobox for radio use.  The current :Template:Infobox Radio station is used internationally, and also for satellite radio channels.  The :Template:Infobox Broadcast would have to be modified extensively, as it is heavily geared towards U.S. (or North American) broadcast television use. I do agree with User:Reflex Reaction in that the current name implies it is more generically applicable than it is. DHowell 01:37, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't have a problem per se with renaming the infobox as long as the editor who does so makes sure that ALL stations have been moved to the new infobox before removing/repurposing the old template name. There are currently about 1,100 station pages that include the infobox. Even with using AWB it would take a decent ammount of time. —A 06:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

text: See no problem with a rename, all current use boxes could redirect to the new name one. Then progresevely go along and make the needed changes in the articles. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 08:26, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updating the infobox 

message: This user has made some non-standard infoboxes that really need to be discussed: Template:NF_TV, for example. --CFIF 23:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I must be missing something. What's wrong with that template? DHowell 04:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at the purple bar. Do you see that on other non-RF created templates? Anyway, he told me he'd fix the problem. --CFIF 12:50, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I didn't realize the colors were part of the standard. I missed the link to Wikipedia:WikiProject Television Stations/markets. DHowell 05:21, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Not a supprise from RF, he also has been moving articles as well. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 08:21, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

text: this problem has now been resolved, and no issues should be arising from me in the future regarding this.
Raccoon Fox 15:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raccoon Fox 

message: I have created a new userbox for people in the WikiProject: 
--CFIF 23:32, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Userbox 

message: How should we note them in the market boxes? e.g. K60AA or K60AA 60? I think we should note it the first way, as the channel # is already there. --CFIF 20:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Personaly i think that we ought to use the second format, as for people who are not familar with the call signs of translators might not know that the channel number is a part of the callsign. Also i am extremely reltucant to add translators to the market boxes, unless thery are a translator of an out of market station or carry content that exclusive to that translator within the market, otherwise it adds unneeded clutter to the market boxes, considering that one station can have several translatiors assoicated with it. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 21:19, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well some are actually low-power stations w/translator style calls. I believe all stations in a market (translators, low-power, full-power stations, and what not), should be listed in the market box. --CFIF 22:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well if they cat as LP stations, then no problem, but if they are nothing then translators or re-transmitters of a full power station station in the same market, then they are not nessicary to put into the market box, other wise you will end up with some market boxes with majority of the stations translators of a full power station. Anyway the standards for inclusion on the market boxes needs to be solidified, as once again their are problems. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 22:37, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that having non-original stations in the infobox is a bad idea. I'd like to point out that "out west" the markets are HUGE. Take the Salt Lake City market for example. This market covers ALL of the state of Utah, plus parts of all the neighboring states. A quick query of the FCC db for all TV stations in Utah returns this. I personaly don't want to see an infobox with all of those stations listed on it whenever I pull up a Utah TV station. —A 05:28, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translator stations 

message: The KMAS-TV article says that KMAS-TV is a non-broadcast TV station carried on local cable. But I get a hits for a KMAS-TV being broadcast out of Steamboat Springs, CO and KMAS-LP broadcasting out of Denver, CO from the FCC DB. This article should be updated to include this informatin, but I wanted to see if by chance an editor in or arround Denver could double check for us. —A 06:35, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is anyone in Denver? 

message: Radiojon appears to be the only Wikipedian who knows not to confuse these 2 things:
# Primary-topic dis-ambiguation
# FCC not licensing a suffix
An example of the former is why the article of London, England is at London and not at London, England. The unqualified word London makes most people think of the city in England; other London meanings don't weigh so much. The dis-ambiguation page is at London (disambiguation)
An example of the latter is having the station of WTBS at WTBS and not at WTBS (TV). In August 2004, Radiojon decided that stations FCC does not license a hyphenated suffix to a callsign should have the class suffix in parentheses. This punctuation format is consistent with general Wikipedia dis-ambiguation. Having the TV station artice at WTBS (TV) as opposed to WTBS-TV classifies it as a TV station FCC licenses as WTBS without the -TV suffix. How is simply leaving out the suffix consistent with anything?? For the TV station to be the primary meaning of WTBS, that means that it is the meaning most people think of (i.e. nobody just thinks of the letters WTBS as just a set of 4 letters.) Georgia guy 21:16, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Disambig pages exist only when there is multiple meanings for abbrevs and words. I do not see why we need the (TV) notation. Leaving out the (TV) makes it consistent with everything else. It's not gonna change. --CFIF 22:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Many dis-ambiguation pages are created after moving a page from an un-dis-ambiguated title to a dis-ambiguated title, and then editing a re-direct to reveal another meaning exists. Do you feel sure there is no way that WTBS can become a dis-ambiguation page based on what Google reveals?? Georgia guy 22:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am positive. --CFIF 23:03, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain. Georgia guy 23:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because I just did a google search and 99% of the results were for the Atlanta TV station. --CFIF 23:08, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Try this with various other TV callsigns that Wikipedia currently has articles about titled with just their root callsign with no suffix. Georgia guy 23:09, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now how many people are going to put in a callsign for a radio station that had that callsign years and years ago and does not have it anymore? It isn't worth it. --CFIF 23:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not just that but there is mention of this in the naming conventions. If a station doesn't use a callsign anymore then it should be renamed so that if another station uses that callsign an article can be created about it. Same logic works in reverse, a past station has no claim to the callsign anymore. —A 10:04, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Perhaps that could be in an article saying something like:
*In 1960, she began her career at WZZZ-TV (now WQQQ-TV.) Georgia guy 23:18, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is anyone honestly going to search for the past callsign? It would be a waste of a disambig page. --CFIF 23:36, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dis-ambiguation pages for 4-letter combinations are very rarely populous, and so how does it make it such a waste?? Georgia guy 23:40, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The big question is, is it really needed? Give me a better reason why we need it. --CFIF 23:41, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Before you make more comments, please let Radiojon read this discussion. I put a message asking him to read it on his talk page. Georgia guy 23:44, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Radiojon should have something to add. Georgia guy 21:11, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been a week sence I posted the "last call" and no word from Radiojon. Looks like has hasn't made an edit sence the 15th, perhaps he is on a wikibreak? —A 08:30, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing 2 things 

message: This is probably a stupid question, but should out of market stations on cable (not including Superstations) be added on to market templetes under "cable only"? I ask, because all cable companies in Puerto Rico have WNBC, WSEE-TV, etc. on their lineups as there aren't any local affiliates available. Kimmykun 09:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bueller? Kimmykun 09:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd say no. But I don't know alot about cable in PR. If there is some crazy amount of people with cable in PR, then I could see it. Do what you think is best for Wikipedia. —A 20:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Out of market stations on cable 

message: User:CoolKatt number 99999 has been vandalizing UPN related-articles and templates with UPN by replacing it with United Paramount Network. I am in the process of reverting all of his vandalism. --CFIF (talk to me) 03:05, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I undid about half of his vandalism. I need someone else to help. --CFIF (talk to me) 03:10, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I think I have reverted all of his crap edits. --CFIF (talk to me) 13:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CoolKatt number 99999 

message: I was perusing :Category:Orphaned fairuse images and noticed a number of TV station logos in danger of getting deleted (look under K and W, especially). I decided to take it upon myself to start restoring these logos to the pages where they belong (if there isn't already a substantially similar logo on the page already). If anyone wants to help in this effort, feel free. I believe historical logos are encyclopedic and shouldn't be deleted just because a station adopts a newer one. See KCOP for an example of how to incorporate old logos in article. DHowell 23:29, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned logos 

message: I'm a long time trivia player, and the list is taken from a printed article that I've kept for years. I no longer have the article (this is pasted from my trivia database spreadsheet). I'm not a member of this project, and I thought someone here might want to incorporate this data in to the appropriate place at wikipedia. It was from WTMJ - TV4 in Milwaukee. Contact me on my user page with questions.
There were 17 TV stations broadcasting when WTMJ - TV (Milwaukee) began broadcasting:			
			1. WRGB-TV, Schenectady, NY, Nov. 10, 1939
			2. WNBT TV New York NY July 1 1941*
			3. WBKB TV Chicago IL Oct. 13 1943 (probably is 1941 though) 
			4. WCBW TV New York NY Oct. 29 1941
			5. WPTZ TV Philadelphia PASept 1941
			6. WABD TV New York NY May 2 1944
			7. WTZR TV Chicago IL Jan. 31 1946 
			8. WTTG TV Washington DC Jan. 1 1947
			9. KTLA TV Hollywood CA Jan 2 1947
			10. KSD TV St. Louis MO Feb. 8 1947
			11. WWJ TV Detroit MI Mar. 4 1947
			12. WNBW TV Washington DC June 27 1947
			13. WFIL TV Philadelphia PA Sept. 13 1947
			14. WMAL TV Washington DC Oct. 3 1947
			15. WEWS TV Cleveland OH Oct. 17 1947
			16. WMAR TV Baltimore MD Oct. 27 1947
			17. WTMJ TV Milwaukee WI Dec. 3 1947
Royalbroil 06:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Very interesting. However, without a source this is just trivia and not a verifiable fact worthy of Wikipedia. Please let us know if you can track down the source. —A 07:27, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have seen that list before on WTMJ's website (though I doubt it's still there). This website: http://members.aol.com/jeff560/chronotv.html has a list of station sign-ons before 1952, which may be of more help. Kirjtc2 01:19, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: List of 17 stations

message: This talk page is way over the reccomended page size. It is currently ~72K, and recommended page size is ~30k. I just tried to perform an archive, but didn't think I could do it justice without input from other project editors. The problem is that there are a bunch of old topics that are still "issues" such as article names and the infobox. I propose that I create sub-talk pages for the major topics of our project that still get alot of traffic, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Article names and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Infobox are the two that I had in mind, but others might be appropriate. All discussion on these topics, old and new will be moved into these subpages. Then inactive topics could be archived without as many problems. Thoughts? —A 00:24, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive or subpages 

message: The US tv station stub has been put up for deletion by User:Ronald20 here. --CFIF (talk to me) 22:37, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was speedily kept. Was someone trying to prove a point. But, thanks for the heads up. —A 05:54, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

text: For the record, here is a link of the discussion. —A 05:57, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alert