Talk:Italian fascism

message: Most of the External Links are to marginal libertarian analysts. This section should be expanded.--Cberlet 21:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvements?

message: "However, it is incorrect that he publicly took responsibility." This is what it says on the page about Matteotti.
Yet here it says "[..]he took upon himself all of the responsibility for the assassination of Matteoti and the other squadrist violence, proclaimed a de facto dictatorship[...]".
Is that the same as saying one is publicly responsible? I may be arguing semantics - or not understanding what it says correctly - but then it needs a rephrasing?
Anyone know enough about the subject to care to comment? 87.2.169.169 07:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Contradiction?

message: "Similar political movements, including Nazism, spread across Europe and Latin America between World War I and World War II" - Fascism occurred in many other areas beside Europe and Latin America. SolitaryWolf 12:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  In reply to Stlemur's change, unfortunately Japan cannot be considered strictly fascist - Kita Ikki advocated limits be imposed on personal wealth and private enterprise. This suggests a Marxist influence… I was actually referring to the Fascist movement around that time in the US... SolitaryWolf 01:30, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fascists were starkly opposed to communists, this results in the common misconception that their ideologies are completely opposite, when they actually shared several ideas.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.46.5.216 (talk) 15:53, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nonetheless, having mentioned "...spread across the rest of the world" - its fine. SolitaryWolf 01:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Historical inaccuracy

message: Seems like a good idea.--Cberlet 01:34, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger?

message: There is a carved inscription on the Mediterranean island Crete (Rhodes ?) that records the restoration of an ancient site by occupying Italians not on a conventional year but instead "in the nnth year of Fascism". Does anyone know whether Mussolini's fascist agenda included replacing the christian calendar years with a new system? If so, what was their year zero (1922 ?) and did they plan the handling of leap-days and leap-seconds for the long term? (cuddlyable3) 84.210.139.189 12:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. Just the years. The nationalists in Spain did the same during the Spanish Civil War, presumably copying Mussolini. I'm not sure when they stopped, but I don't think they kept it up much past the war itself. - Jmabel | Talk 18:01, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Fascist Calendar? 

message: The article says that early Fascist movement aimed at: 
a democratic republic,
separation of church and state,
a national army,
If you say it like that then it sounds like these things didn't exist yet, which is obviously not the case (Italy was a democracy already, armed and in bad terms with the Pope). Shouldn't someone rephrase it? i don't want to do it myself because my English isnt good enough.Caballaria 22:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Italy was a democracy, but not a republic. And they were, indeed, on poor terms with the papacy, but I'm pretty certain that Catholicism still had the status of a state religion. - Jmabel | Talk 23:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading 

message: "German Nazism, under Adolf Hitler, was inspired by Italian Fascism but only came to power ten years later in 1933, by which time Mussolini had been in power for a decade."
So Nazism came into power ten years after Mussolini, who had at this point been in power for ten years.
...
No... really?
Changing it.
MJPerry 09:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redundant Statement in the Lead 

message: From the "Fascist mottos and sayings" section:
* Me ne frego, literally "I frig myself about it," closer in meaning to "I don't give a damn": the Italian Fascist motto
What is this word "frig"? To my knowledge it's only used in this kind of context as a euphamism for "fuck", which we shouldn't censor if it's informative. It's certainly not encyclopaedic style to use it here, IMO. Hairy Dude 15:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Me ne frego 

message: Italian fascist occupation force did some horrific war crimes on the occupied parts of Yugoslavia. In some cases, whole villages were burnt to the ground, and its inhabitants were shot. There was also an Italian concentration camp on isle of Rab. People that have survived Italian fascist oppression have said that they were even more harsh then German occupying force. Yet, not one single word about it. Manny people of todays Italy believe that Fascist soldiers during WW2 were 'benevolent occupiers'. Well, that is a horrific lie. For starters, one should watch BBC documentary 'Fascist Legacy'. There is some info about the movie here on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Legacy  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Duby-B (talk • contribs) 19:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source for any of this? CheeseInTea (talk) 14:06, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment is from 2007 dude, I don't think they're watching this thread anymore  — Czello 14:09, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Why is truth about Italian war crimes not presented here?

message: :Image:La difesa della razza.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:La difesa della razza.jpg

message: Most of this entry is uncited, and most of this entry replicates material on other pages. It would not be a simple merger, but shouldn't we take this page apart and move the material to other related pages and then look for cites? That way we might save what is valuable.  Comments?--Cberlet (talk) 03:30, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Salvageable content could be moved to articles related with history of Italy. -- Vision  Thing -- 16:46, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I agree. This article lumps together a few easily-conflatable but distinct topics (Italian political history, the Fascist Party, Fascism as a philosophy...) and should, if it needs to exist at all be much shorter. --Stlemur (talk) 22:31, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and note that folks can pull anything cited or for which they can cite from the entry history, until it is deleted entirely, say, in six months. I will go ahead and do it.--Cberlet (talk) 17:42, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: NO! Italian Fascism is "Italian Fascism". If you don't have sources for Italian Fascism, then find them! Every academic source lists Italian Fascism independently. The recent move was only accepted by THREE PEOPLE! That is outrageous to make a drastic decision without substantial support. Moreover "Italian Fascism" has more direct search links to its subject of Italian Fascism (133,000 links to Italian Fascism on Google) than "European fascist ideologies" (110 links to "European fascist ideologies" on Google). Italian Fascism is the foundation of fascism in general, it should and will have an independent article. I will revert the name change immediately to its previously long-standing title that is used by multiple sources for descriptions of the Fascist movement in Italy. Do not make such drastic changes again without gaining a large consensus of people to support it.--R-41 (talk) 23:44, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please pay attention. There is already a page on the National Fascist Party of Italy, as well as Fascism and European fascist ideologies. There is no need for a badly written uncited page that is a POV fork.--Cberlet (talk) 02:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Why does this entry exist?

message: The excellent section on Italian Fascism by Gennarous on the main Fascism page has been plonked here with additional material from the older, mostly uncited, page. Let's go passionate advocates of this page--have at it! After a few days, I will see if others at Fascism want to reduce the size of the section on Italian Fascism.--Cberlet (talk) 13:29, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: We're baaaack!

message: the infobox is misplaced, since this is really about a movement and a regime within the Kingdom of Italy (1861–1946) (which already has its own infobox). --dab (𒁳) 17:01, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, I urge whoever the user is to PLEASE STOP repeatedly placing the info box for a former country for the movement of Italian Fascism. That is a complete misuse of the former country infobox which reduces the quality of this article.--R-41 (talk) 02:07, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox Former Country

message: No an expert on this, but am curious by the entries statement that Fiume was promised by the secret treaty of london in 1915. According to Edward Tannenbaum, in "The Fascist Experience" (Basic Books, 1972), this was not promised to Italy: "There was no rational basis for such a belief [i.e. that Italy deserved Fiume]; even the Treaty of London had no promised Fiume to Italy for her participation in the war"(24). Again, not an expert on this, but it does seem that this book may be more legitimate and/or more widely circulated than the one cited.
I'd love to hear other's approach to this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.240.33 (talk) 02:13, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fiume was not promised to Italy in the Treaty of London of 1915. The Austrian empire should have a big port on the Adriatic after the war. Instead almost half of Dalmatia, mostly inhabited by Slavs, was promised by the Treaty to Italy. When, on the base of Wilson doctrine Dalmatia, was given to Yougoslavia, Italian delegatation requested Fiume, mostly inhabited by Italians since the Austrian empire had disappeared.--Deguef (talk) 12:35, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Fiume promised in the Treaty of London 

message: Article gives a strange picture of Italian fascism.
Looks apologetic. What about development of fascism in 1930s and later??
I stumble especilly about claims on racial openness as shown in [and Empire building]. True in the beginning antisemitism was not a factor. How about shift to race laws in later 1930s? (Cf  [] ) What about "ordinary racism" against Africans? (Not to be masked by mentioning colonial troops - everybody had those!). --Kipala (talk) 23:17, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not necessarily, seeing as from within the nature of Italian "Fascism" it was adhered to as an ideology, so outside definitions of Fascism as we are all used to are all the way more slanted... and this is for the specific ideology of the Italian movement itself and not the general lowercase common day definition of "fascism". Other definitons by those who do not adhere to it as an ideology still must define it by its own tenets and those are not so mythically vile as the "Fascism" that became so vilified- even if it praised war and destruction; many such cathartic movements who held on to it, revolutionary leftism, are not held in such contempt. I think the article is quite balanced. 4.242.174.226 (talk) 07:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Bias has no place on Wikipedia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.46.5.216 (talk) 16:05, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Strange picture of Italian fascism

message: Giovanni Gentile once stated, via his view of Kantian ethics taken to a state level and carried out in a way from that as Plato's philosopher king rulership, that "the truncheon is a moral force" or something of the like. Which became interpreted maybe in a way that wasn't how he intended as he brought it up as being used wrongly even by his own kinsmen. Though the similarity to his, his own adoption of ideas from anarcho-syndicalism which inspired his view of state corporativism via the likes of Georges Sorel; could be related to Propaganda of the deed and maybe an article on the Fascist variant of this, via Gentile's term as "the Truncheon as Moral Force" should be maybe even used as a concept for an article itself, juxtaposing the anarchist one. 4.242.174.226 (talk) 07:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gentile's "Moral Force as a [[Truncheon]]" 

message: The article should say something about the more recent history of fascism, the MSI and so on.  --Duncan (talk) 22:28, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post-1945 fascism 

message: "It dates from Mussolini’s January 1915 and the 1919 establishment of the Fascist Revolutionary Party..." Mussolini's January 1915 what? GeneCallahan (talk) 10:37, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something Missing 

message: This article is blatantly and ultimately flawed as it says absolutely nothing about crimes against humanity Fascists committed in Libya, Ethiopia, Yugoslavia and Greece. It doesn't say anything about the Fascist Italianization policies of ethnocide committed against Slovenes and Croats for two decades either.
Some useful stuff:
Report of the Slovene-Italian historical and cultural commission: http://www.kozina.com/premik/indexeng_porocilo.htm
Crimes in Ethiopia: http://www.africanidea.org/Revisiting_fascistitaly.pdf
Crimes in Libya: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/25/libya-remembers-bombs-not-first
Fascist Legacy documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBZT-9f-bIk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acB9O1xR1TA
Italian website on war crimes: http://www.criminidiguerra.it/ 
Justice and Reason (talk) 00:41, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: So then add that to the article. Smitty1337 (talk) 09:14, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Add it, but be careful of Bias.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.46.5.216 (talk) 16:07, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blatantly flawed article, no information about crimes at all 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Italian Fascism's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Sestani2012-02":
From Pula: 
From National Hall, Trieste: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 12:44, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Italian Fascism]] 

message: Why is this article not written in the past tense, seeing as it's about Mussolini's period? Conflating fascist tendencies in Italy today and implying they were features of Mussolini's Italy makes this article very unreliable. 79.97.154.238 (talk) 22:46, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Italian Fascism exists alive and well today. There are well-known Italian Fascists in Italy today, including Benito Mussolini's granddaughter Alessandra Mussolini. Some material is described in past tense, such as Italian Fascism's historic imperialist stances, that are no longer relevant.--R-41 (talk) 22:21, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Why Present Tense?

message: Given problems elsewhere on fascism/Nazism pages, I've quickly picked through some of the new material added in this series of edits. Although the material added can, at a stretch, be backed up with material from the book, as far as I can tell from Google Books word searches, the book cited, Fascist Modernities: does not use the words "rejuvenation", "natality"; does not say anything as specific as "liberal aesthetics .. distracting people from reality" or fascists claiming that a national culture did not exist "prior to Fascist efforts to mould one"; and has nothing on the specific pages cited about "new man", "hygiene" etc. I would also suggest that the person making these edits is the same as , editing anonymously following similar criticism of his editing at Talk:Nazism. N-HH talk/edits 08:38, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits re "modernity" etc 

message: There where some tautologies that I took away and shortened some unnecessary commentary. I have elaborated on the minor place that racial beliefs held  in Fascist Italy and compared it  to German National-Socialism, where it had prominent role in the official ideological doctrine. Due to the minor role it played in Italian Fascism (until later time) I have moved it above the section on the specific section on Jews and Italian Fascism. The section on Jews in Italy at that time was also expanded with new material and connected to other segments on Italian Jewry in the article. User:Philip Cross  the main contributor to the article on  Sir Peregrine Worsthorne removed my mention of him in this article, which I thought served illustration  of contemporary views on foreigners and European excellence with that of Mussolini - which did not vey much differ. I accept the edit  for know, but thought it contributed to the view of the general level of national and European pride that existed generally at that time and was not exceptional even for mots of Fascist Italy. Thank you. --No Source - No Valid Source  (talk) 21:39, 20 December 2014‎
:Changed Relations with the Catholic Church from Cooperation with the Catholic Church which had a certain biased Anti-Catholic edge to it and added a introductory historical remark to make the section more understandable.No Source - No Valid Source (talk) 12:39, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: New material & Arrangement of sections

message: How is this page editable by any Joe Schmo but the page entitled "List of Internet Phenomena" is guarded.Khalil Kittredge (talk) 04:49, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Come on guys 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: the opening states: "The ideology is associated with a series of three political parties..." But only mentions two. 
80.61.234.51 (talk) 12:41, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:46, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  3 parties? 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved per request.  Favonian (talk) 17:29, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Italian Fascism →  – "Fascism" (the ideology, not the political party) is not a proper noun and should be lower case. Sources predominately refer to fascism in the lower case, too. Once the move has taken place I will correct the case throughout the article itself. — Czello 18:08, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 25 April 2022 

message: Not mentioned/linked: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Years_of_Lead_(Italy)
If this page is intended to focus only on the pre-war and post-war history, without covering the periods from the '60s through the present, then it should be more narrowly RENAMED to reflect that chronological limit, and readers should be able to click to "further reading", about more recent Ital. politics. 2600:1008:B008:69EC:0:47:B5E8:7C01 (talk) 19:02, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  page lacks discussion of or links to an existing page for the "Years of Lead" in Italy, when anarchists on the left AND right used violence and terrorism to disrupt or topple the government.