Talk:Khalistan movement/Archive 2

message: I removed them because they have nothing to do with Khalistan, or are blatantly POV:
*http://www.airindiabombing.com/main.html Analysis of Air India bombing - is blatantly POV.
*http://www.Khalistan.com Official Site of the Council of Khalistan - is redundant. You already have a khalistan.net.
*http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/3/27/85708.shtml Article on human-rights violations and anti-Americanism by India - This is an article about Khalistan, not about human-rights violations or anti-Americanism by India.
*http://www.ensaaf.org ENSAAF: Fighting Impunity in India - Has nothing to do with Khalistan
*http://www.sikhgenocide.org Sikh Genocide Project - POV.
*http://www.neverforget84.com Never Forget '84 - POV.
*http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1401028578/qid=1125663154/sr=8-10/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i10_xgl14/102-7507781-3334550?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Amazon.com 'A Sea Of Orange: Writings on the Sikhs and India' - Doesn't have much to do with Khalistan. You will notice that I left your other Amazon link there, because it was relevant.
--Vivin Paliath (വിവിന് പാലിയത്) 23:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why I removed some links 

message: Some comments, article is better but far from perfect.
* There's still a lot of duplication with repeated points.
* I've removed the really really long subheadings, they just looked wrong
* Overall doesn't read coherently, still a bit disjointed
* Bold headings..not actual headings, what gives? Should they even be headings?
* Spelling mistakes, easy to fix but I'd be personally embarrassed if I couldn't spell  Khalistan in an article about Khalistan...you know who you are.
* Too much on the insurgency perhaps? As suggested above there is a seperate article for that
Now that the article is not being replaced wholesale it might be possible to work on these things...
--Nackie 13:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article structure 

message: How stupid and illogical is this? that would just make you a minority in your own country. What would be me appropriate would be taking back India Punjab, I mean after all the Hindus did promise the Sikhs this land. Wanting Punjab Pakistan is a futile conception. --Street Scholar 21:01, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well not all Sikhs who support Khalistan wish to incorporate Pakistani Punjab - although some do.  Even the greater Punjab of India would have Sikh minority. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 21:57, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Right I see. --Street Scholar 19:54, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khalistanis wnating Punjab Pakistan? 

message: 1. It is illegal and immoral to copy and paste text from a web-site It is a serious copyright violation. Action should be taken against those involved in this copying. (Comment: The article was posted by its author. It is not immoral to reproduce your own work!)
2. The web-site from where the text is taken is a specifically separationist web-site that seeks to establish a theocratic nation from parts of India and Pakistan. Hardly unbiased.  (Comment: This is nonsense; can you prove this with evidence?)
3. The cut-and-paste text states that India is not a democracy. India is as much a democracy as UK, USA, Canada or Australia. Democracy is not an exclusive preserve of rich European  or North American countries. (Comment: Please learn to read; the article nowhere states that India is not a democracy.  India is in fact an illiberal democracy, which is the central thesis of this article.)
4. India is not a military dictatorship. India is not a theocratic state. India's president is a Muslim, and the Prime Minister is a Sikh. Federal and state Governments in India win and lose elections, as they elsewhere in democracies. State of Punjab has an elected government. --ISKapoor 22:26, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually tried quite hard to clean up and mediate this article, but the vandals kept vandalising and the exercise became futile.  I've not got the time or the effort to go through the Wikipedia bureaucracy to get this page protected or watched for vandalism.  You're more than welcome to clean it up because I gave up long ago ;)  Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyrighted text lifted from "http://www.sikhgenocide.org/background.htm" 

message: "although Khalistan movement was supported by Pakistan and fundamentalist politicians in some western countries." -- Which? Mustaqbal 20:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "western nations" 

message: I've reinstated these tags.  It still needs cleaning up because there are no wiki links and the references (footnotes) need to be properly wikified.  I've also yet to check whether it is NPOV because I've not had the time to read it all (hopefully next week I will).  Please don't remove the NPOV tag without discussing it first on the talk page. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 13:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine.  Thanks for taking the time to perform the formatting.  I wrote this article for an academic audience and had to ensure that every assertion was supported with a citation.  If you find something that is unsupported, please let me know and I will make best attempts to provide it.  Also, the word Khalistan used to be in Gurmukhi is no longer appearing in the title of the article. I don't want to revert your changes, so please take a look at it when you have a moment. I am new to Wiki tagging so it will take me some time to get up to speed.  66.30.106.157 16:10, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Gurmukhi transliteration appears fine here.  Try looking for help here: Wikipedia:Enabling complex text support for Indic scripts. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 16:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I would also recommend you get yourself a Wikipedia account.  You only need a username/password and its easier for people to contact you on your wiki talk page.  Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 16:21, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup/NPOV tags 

message: In think there is *way* too much information in this article.  It probably needs to be at most and third of its current size.  My personal suggestion is to have the Khalistan page present the main issue, and have separate pages that contain background information.  New articles to incorporate the material, such as History of Sikhism, Sikhism in Punjab etc. probably need to be made. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 16:37, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right.  I am busy with some other writing till the 20th, after which I will have considerable free time.  I will try to reduce the length and cut out what can be removed. 66.30.106.157 17:11, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recommended Cleanup 

message: Is there an agreed on map of Khalistan? Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 16:39, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The understanding has been that Khalistan's geography consists of the current state of Indian Punjab, including additional Punjabi speaking areas that were awarded to the state of Haryana and the Union Teritory of Chandigarh.  This is based strictly on the demands of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution. I will try to see if I can find a good map. 66.30.106.157 17:06, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khalistan Map 

message: Good information, but needs some NPOV'ing. It downplays the militancy and has some POV like this:
The events in 1984 further demonstrate the illiberal nature of the Indian democracy. For over a year, the Indian army had been preparing for an attack on the Darbar Sahib. To legitimize the attack, according to Subramaniam Swami—a member of the Indian Parliament—the central government had created a disinformation campaign. In his words, the state sought to “make out that the Golden Temple was the haven of criminals, a store of armory and a citadel of the nation’s dismemberment conspiracy.”[76] --Vivin Paliath (വിവിന് പാലിയത്) 08:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs some NPOV'ing 

message: The date cited for Khalistan's Declaration of independence in this article is incorrect.  According to Joyce Pettigrew, the declaration of Khalistan by a Sarbat Khalsa took place at the Akal Takht in January 1986 and the document itself was released the five-member Panthik Committee from the Akal Takht on April 29, 1986 (see Joyce Pettigrew, "Parents and Their Children in Situation of Terror: Disappearances and Special Police Activity in Punjab," Death Squad: The Anthropology of Terror (Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 2000), p.205.)
I have the text introducing the "Declaration of Khalistan" in front of me and this document states:
"This document declaration of Khalistan was issued on April, 29 1986 by the Five-Member Panthic Committee from Darbar Sahib Complex, Sri Amritsar Sahib."  The main body of the document states:
"...the Panthic Committee appointed by 'Sarbat Khalsa' on January 26, 1986, defines the Sikh congregations’ dream of Khalistan..."
Here we have two sources giving the same dates. 66.30.106.157 07:03, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of Declaration of Khalistan 

message: I have gone through the article and removed all personal opinions.  What's there are facts, which are  all supported by citations.  I would recommend going through the article.  If you find something that you feel is an opinion, I will remove it.  I think we are making progress in presenting this properly.  Thank you for your cooperation, without which it could not have happened. 66.30.106.157 11:03, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Top headers expressing point of view