Talk:5.45×39mm

message: The picture shows the civilian version of that round. The military version has an additional hard metal (tungsten?) insert in place of most of the lead. This penetrator is quite effective against light armor and especially body armor. When this bullet became available on European black markets during the soviet troop widthdrawal in the nineties it created quite some headaches and fear among local law enforcement. Even armored cars in use by most politicians at that time weren't able to reliably stop these rounds at close range.
This article suffers from a nearly complete lack of sources. I can't even find a reference to support the idea the round was inspired by the American experience in Vietnam, as opposed to the American adoption of the round. Bueller? Bueller?--Thatnewguy 12:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture

message: The picture is gone now.--Ysangkok 18:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No picture 

message: I suspect the article was largely written by a 5.56 advocate.  It states the 5.45x39 gained a reputation as a "mediocre stopper".  This should be properly referenced and/or clearly defined. Since "reputation" is based largely on anecdotal accounts, I submit that it is non-encylopedic information.  A cursory web search for this round returns more references to its alleged "poison bullet" performance in Afghanistan than to any accounts of subpar performance, so if anything its reputation seems skewed in the other direction.
If anyone has access to Soviet ballistics data that may prove interesting. They have kept it in front line service for 30+ years for some reason, and I don't think national pride is the only one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.75.170.119 (talk) 00:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The study you ignore is scientific, peer-reviewed, and unrefuted.  Please provide your own sources before you tag the article to death. The 5.45 is functionally identical to the 5.56 in modern warfare.--Asams10 00:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have sources which say otherwise, let's see them.  The article currently cites Fackler as a source, not as indisputable proof.  Geoff B 09:25, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality? 

message: With a diameter of 400 mm, the circumference would be pi*400 mm = 1260 mm = 126 cm = *50 INCHES* (even accounting for a serious stomach bulge, that would suggest a waistline of no less than 46). And, yes, the assumption that a 400 mm torso is approximately circular in cross-section is valid, because people of less-than-round builds are unable to achieve a torso width of anywhere near 400 mm. Now, I don't know about the USMC, but the Soviet Army and its successors like the Russian Army are not even allowed to conscript anyone suffering from obesity, much less hire professional soldiers with such parameters. In other words, this seems like utter BS. Aadieu (talk) 22:36, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The average width of a human torso is 400 mm." 

message: The shown list of wars which the 5.45x39 cardridge has seen is not nearly exhaustive. I don't see the sense in keeping this information. The articles for the 7.62x39 doesn't list wars. The 5.56x45 page cops out and states "Vietnam - present." So I think this is useless text. Does anyone disagree? 97.125.55.30 (talk) 23:04, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can provide internet sources (preferably in English) which state differing muzzle velocities and the use of a polymer/plastic bullet in training rounds this information can be added to the article.--Francis Flinch (talk) 12:44, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Wars" list in the infobox 

message: The round gained a nasty reputation during the Soviet war in Afghanistan. The mujahideen nicknamed it the poisoned bullet due to the wounds it could cause compared to it's size. Perhaps this should be put in there somewhere?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.143.73 (talk) 20:22, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Poison Bullet" 

message: A user recently added a "Large capacity magazine" section about an obscure 100 round magazine used on an experimental light machine gun. However a magazine is a feature of the firearm that uses it, not the cartridge it contains. If there was only one universal magazine designed for the 5.45 cartridge, then it might be relevant to this article; but we do not list every different firearms magazine in the article about the cartridge. It is simply irrelevant in this article. — DanMP5 00:00, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Magazines section 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.cip-bp.org/index.php?id=tdcc-telechargement
** In .223 Remington on 2011-05-20 21:28:33, Socket Error: 'getaddrinfo failed'
** In 10mm Auto on 2011-05-23 02:08:47, Socket Error: 'getaddrinfo failed'
** In .223 Remington on 2011-05-31 04:44:11, Socket Error: 'getaddrinfo failed'
** In .325 WSM on 2011-05-31 12:36:32, Socket Error: 'getaddrinfo failed'
** In 10mm Auto on 2011-06-01 01:40:56, Socket Error: 'getaddrinfo failed'
** In 5.45x39mm on 2011-06-19 14:22:29, Socket Error: 'getaddrinfo failed'
--JeffGBot (talk) 14:23, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives classified the 7N6 cartridge as "armor piercing handgun ammunition" on 7 April 2014, and, as such, it is illegal to import from Russia to the United States.Test, Examination and Classification of 7N6 5.45x39 Ammunition ATF Special Advisory at www.atf.gov  This decision may have been political rather than legal, because the ban only applies to ammunition manufactured in Russia and the criteria for ban, defined in the 1968 Gun Control Act, were not met. The 68 Gun Control Act contains two construction criteria (either or which would define the ammunition as armor piercing). In addition, there must also be a handgun capable of firing it and legally in the United States. This law has neither criteria nor authorization to ban ammunition based on range testing against actual armor or any other tests other than construction. The 5.45 projectile is not larger than 22 caliber so one of the two construction criteria cannot be considered. The other construction criteria is defined; "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium"  . The 7N6 projectile core has a large quantity of lead and an air pocket which can not be interpreted as trace elements. The Fabryka Broni Radom, Model Onyks 89S, 5.45×39mm caliber semi-automatic pistol cited by ATF as being the handgun capable of firing this round, is actually a Carbine with an 8.5 inch barrel, folding shoulder stock and based on the Tantal AK-74 variant. A total of 200 were manufactured at Radom, Poland and never went past prototype. If any were actually imported into the U.S., BATF would be required to categorize them as short barreled rifles (SBR) - not pistols. These carbines would also be taxed as SBRs, the same as silencers and full-automatic weapons.
:I've deleted the italicized text because it appears to be making an original argument that isn't found in the sources. If anyone can find a source making this argument then it could probably be rewritten and restored. Rezin (talk) 20:20, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced polemic 

message: I added a section on an AK-type rifle chambered for 5.45x39mm offered for sale by Centerfire Systems, Inc. of Versailles, Kentucky, USA in their Late Fall 2014 online catalog, page 11 .
Thus edit was reverted by another editor, [Francis Flinch].  I did not make that edit gratuitously.  It completed the "civil use" section of the article by providing up-to-date information on the availability of semiautomatic firearms in the 5.45x39mm chambering. It was properly sourced using the "Prove It" editor. 
Editor Francis Flinch did not cite a reason for reverting my edit.  I would like to assume good faith on Francis Flinch's part, but in the absence of any information regarding his reason for reverting my edit, I'm placing my edit content back in the article pending any explanation of the reasons he removed it. loupgarous (talk) 09:41, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The section just points out there have been several non 5.45×39mm AK platform arms developed and some are or have been commercially offered to civilians. You write about a particular 5.45×39mm AK platform rifle made from Bulgarian and US made parts. For years there there have been commercial AK platform offerings around for civilians chambered in 5.45×39mm. Combining parts originating from Eastern Europe and the US is also rather common. Have a look at http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/Rifles/ and this is not the only company that offers Eastern European and US made 5.45×39mm AK platform arms. Companies like Waffen Werks, Krebs Custom, James River Armory, Molot and Kalashnikov Concern are or have been also active in producing (semi-automatic) 5.45×39mm AK platform arms for civilians. If you want to point out that several manufacturers and vendors offer 5.45×39mm AK platform arms to civilian customers that is fine with me. I think the article does not need advertising for these companies by mentioning them. They did not create new arms.--Francis Flinch (talk) 10:45, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why was the section on the "Bulgarian AK-74" reverted? 

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message: This claim is to unspecific and unsourced on top off it, the claim also seem to be referencing an other sentence which i guess is the preceding one, the preceding sentence does provide a citation but while the article talks about the wounding effect on elastic tissues in the comments section the author uses the word "expect" in the context of the discussion and i don't think that provides enough to state the claim as a fact, the article also does not claim anything about flexibility of organs in a human body.  BriniestMango (talk) 10:19, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The claim "Most organs and tissue were too flexible to be severely damaged by the temporary cavity effect caused by yaw and cavitation of a projectile." needs to be more specific and provide a source for its claim