Talk:J. M. Barrie

message: The sentence "The BBC made an award-winning miniseries by Andrew Birkin, The Lost Boys at the Internet Movie Database. . ." seem awkwardly worded.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.206.117.246 (talk • contribs) 06:30, 12 December 2006
:The reason is that the IMDB Title template was used, which appends some text which may not be relevant to the context. I've replaced the IMDB link with a wikilink which I found on the disambiguation page for The Lost Boys.— Asch jr. talk to me 11:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "at the Internet Movie Database"

message: ... Barrie stated that they would tell stories, have warm milk and cookies, and that it is was very charming.
:I doubt that he would have used THOSE words.... "milk and cookies" is very much an American expression. IVoteTurkey 01:25, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: milk and cookies

message: In the opening para, Llewellyn has 2 sets of double els, but later on it has only one such set.  I don't know which version is correct.  Can anybody assist?  JackofOz 05:58, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: spelling of Llewellyn-Davies

message: His first two novels were set in Kirriemuir, disguised as "Thrums" (his father was a weaver).
What does Thrums mean, and what is the connection with weaving?  Ubermonkey 13:28, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Thrums

message: whats wrong with it?? why wont it work properly??!?!!? someone fix it!!??! urhghgughuhguurgh!!!! Bwithh 19:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnote reference link for psychogenic dwarfism 

message: The article reads "after meeting George and Jack", but Jack is not mentioned earlier as one of the boys.  Can someone please clarify?
--1000Faces 07:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Jack was the more commonly used nickname for John, was the second eldest of the boys. --woggly 12:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jack? 

message: The reference to  Barrie's mother on this page doesn't tally with the description in the Article from the new yorker;
http://www.newyorker.com/critics/atlarge/articles/041122crat_atlarge?041122crat_atlarge
The room was dark, and when I heard the door shut and no sound come from the bed I was afraid, and I stood still. I suppose I was breathing hard, or perhaps I was crying, for after a time I heard a listless voice that had never been listless before say, “Is that you?” I think the tone hurt me, for I made no answer, and then the voice said more anxiously “Is that you?” again. I thought it was the dead boy she was speaking to, and I said in a little lonely voice, “No, it’s no’ him, it’s just me.” Then I heard a cry, and my mother turned in bed, and though it was dark I knew that she was holding out her arms. 
This sounds quite different, and implies she loved him for himself; that he was the one who felt she would prefer his brother.  Should the wiki article be corrected? I don't know the sources well enough myself.  JClare 22:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  barrie and his mother 

message: I seriously doubt whether Barrie met either Robert Louis Stevenson or Arthur Conan Doyle at Edinburgh University. Sure he corresponded with Stevenson, but as far as I know they never actually met in person. Given that Stevenson was ten years his senior, doesn't make sense that they would have met as students. I believe he met Conan Doyle in London. The two were indeed friends, and even collaborated on a flop musical. All in all the section about his acquaintances is sorely lacking: Barrie basically knew everyone who was anyone back in his day. --woggly 12:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Acquaintances

message: The line Life is what happens to you, while you're busy making other plans. Is this a Barrie quote? GoodDay 23:32, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: John Lennon song [[Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)]]

message: Wondering if anyone agreed with this...Quote under the Llewellyn-Davies section states "Following Sylvia's death a few years later, Barrie claimed that they had been engaged to be married." In none of my research, have I ever heard this claim. Does anyone have a citation for this? I assumed it was a well-known fact that the feelings Barrie had towards Sylvia were purely platonic.--sidahboo 08:04, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's brought up on page 191 of J.M.Barrie and the Lost Boys. Both Jack and Nico reported hearing the claim; Peter said it was wishful thinking on JMB's part. - JasonAQuest (talk) 18:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation Needed?

message: Contrary to what User:79.73.94.229 asserted in the edit history, Scottish writers are commonly identified in their intros as "Scottish", not as "British".  I just looked at over a dozen random entries on list of Scottish writers, and all but one called the subject "Scottish".  (The exception was Robbie Burns(!), whose intro paragraph doesn't apply an adjective to him, but is instead littered with references to "Scotland" and "Scots".) While "British" may be more common among English UK writers, I believe that merely reflects a tendency for English people in general to identify themselves as "British" rather than "English"; this is markedly less common for Scottish people.  Wikipedia's convention is to use the term the subject uses/would have used, and I think it's pretty clear that despite his long residence in London (where the theatre scene was) JMB - whose family, favorite holiday spots, and choice of burial site were all in Scotland - was "Scottish". - JasonAQuest (talk) 23:15, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well unless you know JM Barrie personally or have some way of contacting him, that is just your opinion that he would prefer that term. English writer JK Rowling is titled a British writer on her page, and the tendancy is for other people to label English people as British and Scottish people as Scottish. 79.74.53.132 (talk) 00:21, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously I don't know him personally, but his foster-son Peter Llewelyn Davies certainly did, and he called Barrie a "little Scotch genius".  I had no real opinion about it before I started researching him, but after reading three books about him, it seems clear to me that "Scottish" fits him.  He grew up in Scotland, went to school and university in Scotland, made a name for himself writing about Scotspeople, went back to Scotland to marry, formed a pen-pal relationship with Robert Louis Stevenson based on their common Scottishness (and literary interests), repeatedly brought "his boys" to Scotland for holidays, was rector of a Scottish university and chancellor of another, and was buried in Scotland.  Other reference works - even Encyclopedia Britannica - describe him as "Scottish".  We do have access to J. K. Rowling, and can ask her whether she prefers "British" over "English", so I have no problem with that either way.  But on what basis do you presume to know that Barrie would prefer "British"?  Because that's what you're doing by changing it.  The fact remains that other Scottish writers are typically described in Wikipedia as "Scottish"; why shouldn't that apply to Barrie? - JasonAQuest (talk) 01:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

text: You are presuming that he'd prefer "British", because you changed it to that.  Why?  The original reason you gave (claiming it was contrary to Wikipedia convention) is bogus, so... why? - JasonAQuest (talk) 03:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I am not guessing at your motivation, just pointing out that you're making the same sort of unsupported assumption you accuse me of.  You're applying a double standard: your preference to change it need not be justified objectively, but the existing version must be defended.  You are pushing to change it, but accuse me of pushing an agenda because I wish to keep it as it's read since the article was created in 2002.  What would be helpful is if you'd actually answer my question: Why change it?  Your original justification does not stand, because it ignores the fact that Scottish writers are rather consistently described as Scottish in other Wikipedia articles.  You evidently think they should not be, and that can certainly be debated, but Wikipedia precedent does not support changing it here.  Conventional usage elsewhere does not support changing it here.  The consensus of the article's history does not support changing it.  I'm listening for an argument that does.  (For the record: as a German-Hispanic-Dutch American I don't care one way or the other about political separatism in the UK.  Scotland can be ruled from London, Edinburgh, or even Caernarfon for all I care.  If that's what you're really arguing about here, please set it aside, because it's not relevant.) - JasonAQuest (talk) 15:17, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

text: But what's wrong with describing him as "Scottish"?  Why is it necessary to change it?  It's a simple and perfectly appropriate question to someone pushing for a change to a long-standing consensus, and I have yet to see it explained. - JasonAQuest (talk) 15:17, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Still no answer to my question, just a repetition of the double standard, and a combination of personal attack and nationalist slur.  Sorry that this fight you started went on longer than you'd hoped, but I'd still rather be boring than boorish. - JasonAQuest (talk) 16:25, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Scottish or British

message: I don't know if anyone agrees, but I think the Infobox Notable Works section is terrible. Doesn't he have other notable works that aren't about Peter Pan? Dear Brutus, for instance? --15lsoucy (talk) 11:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Does anyone ever refer to him as "J.M. Barrie, the author of Dear Brutus (or whatever)"? Do they routinely mention certain works in addition to Peter Pan when they talk about him? - Jason A. Quest (talk) 14:23, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's probably his greatest success besides Peter Pan. Hmmm. Maybe I was clouded. Sorry. --15lsoucy (talk) 23:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If there's a source for it... - Jason A. Quest (talk) 10:37, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I mean Charles Dickens has eight books on his list and H. G. Wells has six... --15lsoucy (talk) 03:43, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: Wikipedia shows a date of 1919, but according to the Internet Broadway Database, Beatrice Agnew, Ethel Barrymore, and John Barrymore appeared in a double bill with "Pantaloon" at the Criterion Theatre on Broadway in New York City.  The opening date was Christmas Day, 1905.  Agnew and John Barrymore were in both plays.  Lionel Barrymore appeared in "Pantaloon"  A version available on Amazon has a 1905 date (http://www.amazon.com/Alice-Fire-James-Matthew-Barrie/dp/1406929247/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274535281&sr=8-4) Jtyroler (talk) 13:36, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: 1905 is correct; Alice was his first play after Peter Pan. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 13:55, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alice Sit-By-The-Fire 

message: * Two friends who took the world by storm, The Scotsman, 2 September 2010
--Mais oui! (talk) 06:54, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  New play - Mythmakers - about the friendhip between JM Barrie and Scott of the Antarctic  

message: quote: "Barrie also authored Jane Annie, a failed comic opera for Richard D'Oyly Carte (1893), which he begged his friend Arthur Conan Doyle to revise and finish for him."
This should be rewritten in two or three sentences. Our list of works--maybe unreliable in this--implies that Doyle did help and finish it in some sense before 1893. Also that the music was written by someone else--reliable, I'm sure. What does "for R.D.C." mean? When did it fail and in what sense, at Barrie's hand or after Doyle helped?
--P64 (talk) 00:09, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Richard D'Oyly Carte was the owner of the Savoy theater, and requested JMB to write it. The production failed at the box office. See Jane Annie for more info. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 00:21, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opera ''Jane Annie'' 

message: Regarding Little Minister or The Little Minister, subject of revise-and-revert a few hours ago.
* WorldCat: Barrie reports it his second most widely-held title in libraries (with a high score, i know from experience)
* FYI, here are the U.S. library of congress catalog records with early dates.         
We disambiguate unusually,  The Little Minister (disambiguation). Presumably our now-primary film article The Little Minister will be renamed if someone writes a book and/or play article.
--P64 (talk) 01:07, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Little Minister 

message: Both images of Barrie in the article are misdated, the first is a crop of an 1892 photo by Herbert Rose Barraud in the National Portrait Gallery, the second is not dated in the Library of Congress, but there is no way it is 1910 as Barrie had aged considerably by then, here's a photo of Barrie from 1909. It looks close to the 1892 portrait and the 1894 Elliott & Fry portrait at the NPG. If there are no objections I will relabel, possible adding further images of him at a greater age. Vladeraz (talk) 22:15, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Both images corrected, one added. There are later images from 1909 and 1922 but you'd need to prove these were published before 1923 in the US to be public domain. Vladeraz (talk) 18:16, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: I've removed the details about the two houses Barrie lived in in Gloucester Place and Bayswater Road firstly because the Literary Career section wouldn't be the right place for this and also because some of the facts about the house are incorrect or not properly sourced. The first reference from the Telegraph reads more like an estate agent's blurb, wishful thinking of the occupier: the house in Gloucester Road is not the inspiration for the Darlings' house. Barrie himself states in the opening of the play that the Darlings live in Bloomsbury,  based on the house where he had lodgings when he first moved to London. Besides, there is no balcony in either the play or novel, just a window. 
In the house in Bayswater Road, Barrie had a studio at the back of the garden, where he wrote Peter Pan, but he didn't use a room upstairs (source: Denis Mackail's biography, listed in the reference section). You need to be subscribed to the Sunday Times to read the article in full, so the reference is not acceptable for WP (and besides, it's full of mistakes and estate agent's hype).
--Stelmaris (talk) 20:42, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. However it is not a requirement that an article be available to read online; if it were Mackail's book would not be acceptable. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 23:33, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely, it has never been a requirement that references are available online, which is why there is a 'subscription required' parameter in the citation template. Actually, you can access the Sunday Times article online with an account from any British library. It was clumsy of me to put the information in the wrong section, but thankfully user:Tmol42 kindly moved the deleted information to the correct section. If the information about Barrie working upstairs is incorrect I'll remove it, but the citations I've used are perfectly adequate as references for the other information I've added unless and until someone supplies some of better quality. Richerman   (talk) 19:52, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

text: I'm lost now (sorry about the pun!) - I never added any trivia about the previous occupants. The only edit you made since the information was moved into the marriage section was to delete the bit about the balconies here. Incidentally, before I made these additions there was nothing in the article about the couple moving to London. When did they move from Nottingham and where else did they live? You've mentioned here a flat in Bloomsbury but there's nothing about that in the article although the "Bloomsbury scenes" are mentioned with no real context. Obviously the move to Kensington was important for the development of the Peter Pan story and meeting the LLewellyn Davies boys. Richerman   (talk) 10:02, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

text: I think that shows that the article needs a bit of restructuring. I would suggest that the Literary career section should be retitled Later life and literary career. Then details of the various properties, his life and marriage could be worked into that section. I don't see any reason why his marriage warrants a section of its own. Richerman   (talk) 19:02, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Houses in Kensington and Bayswater 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091015031443/http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/rrPeterPan2.html to http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/rrPeterPan2.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Someone keeps adding a documentary about Peter Pan to the page but it's unsourced, unreferenced and there's no information as to where or when it's been aired, or its producer. Research shows it has not been broadcast in the UK or US. So, unless the contributor adds a citation showing some notability, I will keep removing it. --Stelmaris (talk) 09:41, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreferenced documentary 

message: In the bio box it has JM as Scottish as his nationality, and British as his citizenship, is that correct according to Wiki? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality#Nationality_versus_citizenship. Halbared (talk) 12:01, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see anything incorrect about it. WP:UKNATIONALS doesn't present hard-and-fast rules, but JMB was born and raised in Scotland, his early work identified strongly with Scotland, and he identified as a Scot, so it makes sense to state that as his nationality. His citizenship was definitely British (i.e. UK). -Jason A. Quest (talk) 17:42, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Nationality/citizinship?

message: In my opinion, the hyperlink on the 'Peter Pan' tab should be removed and should instead be moved to the 'See also' section because in my opinion it looks strange that one tab has a hyperlink on it but the rest don't, making the article lack consistency. Xboxsponge15 (talk) 09:35, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right: section headers shouldn't be linked (and the name is already linked way earlier in the article). I also have no idea why it was a separate section from the rest of his bibliography, or why Honours was two sections. Fixed. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 18:47, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hyperlink on the 'Peter Pan' tab should be removed 

message: Somethings not right about his childhood story. 
His brother died when they lived in Bothwell (near Hamilton) and he went to Bothwell Academy where his older brother was the headmaster (see this article - https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/bothwells-link-peter-pan-unveiled-2417216).
So he must have lived in Bothwell when he was 6 years old and his family must of moved there from Kirriemuir when younger than that. El dude brother2 (talk) 15:36, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Childhood in Bothwell 

message: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Winter_(chess_player)
learned from agadmator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L7CdoSDepQ Thewriter006 (talk) 17:57, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  cousin / nephew / niece / uncle / aunt of chess player? 

message: "Barrie was involved in the 1909 and 1911 attempts to challenge the censorship of the theatre by the Lord Chamberlain, along with a number of other playwrights." Is anyone else bothered by this, the last sentence of the 8th paragraph in the Literary Career section? It's impossible to tell, from this sentence, whether the Lord Chamberlain was attempting to censor or was, himself, involved in attempts to challenge the censorship. rowley (talk) 04:38, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have a problem with that sentence. It's clear to me that it was the Lord Chamberlain's censorship of the theatre that Barrie was challenging, along with others. Stelmaris (talk) 07:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ambiguous wording