Talk:Grande école

message: "While École Polytechnique is run by the Ministry of Defence and its French students are reserve officers in training, it is no longer a military academy and few of its students embrace a military career afterwards."
This means that some students do embrace a military career, so I don't see why it is not a military academy (the article does not define "military academy", and military academy only says "Their exact definition depends on the country"). Apokrif 16:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Polytechnique

message: Added top schools (very selective, almumni ending up leading positions) by fields: ENSSIB, ENI (Tax school), ENM (juges and prosecutors), ENSP and EOGN (for police forces). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.123.170.226 (talk) 06:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Administratives schools

message: Can we stop referring to this school as a first tier one (in top 10 of engineering school), its graduates are not centraliens either (only Paris provides this status). It is one of the best second tier but not a first tier school, same applies to Arts et Metiers. Thx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.208.224.161  (talk • contribs) 05:12, 31 January 2007
Is one of the top 10 - Actually it's ranked 7th in 2009 by the most reliable poll  L'etudiant/L'Express - and that consistantly since 2003- There is no doubt that it's not in the same league as X, Mines, and ECP. But it's the best Generalist schools after ECP. Supelec, Supoptic and other schools that may be arguably be more selective are not Generalist  and therefore do not appeal to the same category of students - I am not sure why some people think they can be bigger by pushing down others? And yes, it is true, only ECP graduates can be called Centraliens. My advice to the graduates from other Centrale schools: don't even try, that's dishonnest. With respect to Arts et Metiers: that school is much closer to what an engineering school is in the US or Germany. That's not a coincidence that their top students are offered a chance to transfer to Ecole Polytechnique. They may not know as much math as their counterparts coming from prepa, but Gadzarts are very ingenious and intuitive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Remi11d  (talk • contribs) 23:53, 25 July 2009
:: I completely agree with you. Last week I had to undo lots of modifications done by somebody using IP 84.5.63.100 not only in this article, but, worse, in articles of other schools (Centrale Paris and Mines Paris). He degradated their contents just to show that Centrale Lyon was at their same level of excellence.
::Agustin.PalaciosLaloy  — Preceding undated comment added 19:51, 31 January 2007
:: Absolutely, the same guy keeps undoing others' valid contribution, for example by removing Ecole Normale Superieure from the top list, etc. (He also doesn't know how to type, introducing typos and spurious spaces around commas and brackets.) This is bordering on vandalism. How can we flag him? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.247.15.69  (talk • contribs) 15:40, 4 February 2007
To come back to the main topic, I must say that I can't agree with the first comment. Centrale Lyon does belong to the top ten of the engineering Grandes Ecoles, and this for at least three reasons :
:1/That's what it scores in every global (non-specialized) survey. See for instance those of "Le Point" : http://www.lepoint.fr/html/grandes_ecoles/ecoles_ingenieurs/post_prepa/classement_general.jsp In 2003, it even reached place #3 in the same magazine (since then, criteria have changed).
:2/It also corresponds to its level of recruitment. (see the statistics of the "Centrale-Supelec" competitive exam on the SCEI-concours web-site) And, yes, of course, it recruits almost exclusively after the "prépas".
:3/The institution itself dates back from the 19th century, has got a good network of graduates, enjoys a nice campus including large labs, which evey school can't pride itself of...
Last, let me mention that "centralien" is just a casual nickname - not a trademark - also used from graduates from other Centrale schools than Paris to refer to themselves, which I find totally ok since they also belong to the family. And soon, we'll be glad to welcome some "centraliens de Marseille"...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evarist (talk • contribs) 07:36, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Centrale Lyon

message: Hi,
A paragraph/link dealing with Paristech (http://www.paristech.org/) might be a good idea.
Alexander142 00:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Paristech

message: Can we be serious and take this school out of the top tier list, it just does not make the list consistent. INSA Lyon is a second tier school at best - not a Groupe A school, I am not even sure it is a Groupe B. I believe Groupa A schools are X, Ecoles d'appli de l'X (Mines Paris, Ponts, SupAero, ENSTA, ENSAE, TElecoms Paris, ENSPM), Centrale Paris, Supelec and may be INA PG (Top Agro school), ESPCI (special status - at least 4 or 5 Nobel Prizes, second to ENS here) and ENSAM (if we push it, but ENSAM is likely to be a top Groupe B). INSA Lyon just does not fit at all in this list, and the top ENSIs should (COMMENT: it's certain that they're not as good, you can't objectively compare an ENSI to INSA or ENSAM!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.97.220.174  (talk • contribs) 15:36, 22 April 2007) be ahead of this school. Thanks to correct this to keep this article accurate! (Comment: I suggest to keep it the way it is now, because it is the most objective we can do — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.97.220.174  (talk • contribs) 15:39, 22 April 2007) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.208.224.161  (talk • contribs) 01:12, 29 March 2007
INSA Lyon is really well recognized in the industry. This discussion just bring us back to the old debate between "prepa vs. INSA"... INSA Lyon clearly belongs to the top of group B. I agree with you that it doesn't belong to the so called group A, but it's the same for ENSAM (and surely for ESPCI). But the list here is not the list of the group A. We decided to include ENSAM, INSA Lyon and ESPCI, because they have something special.
- ENSAM has a very powerful network.
- INSA has a powerful network as well, and it's the only school to be prestigious and in 5 years at the same time. It' one of the first school outside Paris (after Supaéro).
- ESPCI because of the nobel prizes.
If you look at any ranking (the ones that doesn't make the separation between "with prepa" and "5 year"), ENSAM and INSA Lyon are always part of the 10 first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.97.220.174  (talk • contribs) 15:36, 22 April 2007
I don't think that ESPCI should be put in the same category as INSA Lyon and ENSAM. The specificity of the group A schools is their high selectivity. From this point of view, ESPCI is at least as selective as Telecom Paris, Supaéro, ENSTA and Supélec. ENSAM and INSA Lyon are, as said above, very good schools which have something special. Nevertheless, their selectivity is lower than the selectivity of the group A schools. For this reason, I think that ESPCI should belong to group A as long as Telecom Paris, Supaéro, ENSTA and Supelec belong to group A. I also believe that Centrale Lyon is closer to group A from this point of view than ENSAM and INSA Lyon.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.24.170 (talk) 02:45, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: INSA Lyon

message: Can't we put the acronym of the schools first? It's a bit elligbile and someone that doesn't know the topic is likely to understand nothing this way...
Example A: Do we have to put École Nationale Supérieure des Mines de Paris? Can't we just put Mines Paris and the link to the wikipedia page of Mines Paris should be enough to explain more...
Example B: Ecole Nationale Supérieure d'Electrotechnique, d'Electronique, d'Informatique, d'Hydraulique et des Télécommunications... Don't you think that it's too long...? We could just put ENSEEIHT (and the real name in brackets, otherwise someone that doesn't speak french will understand and remember... nothing)
--84.97.220.174 15:54, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Acronyms

message: http://www.lepoint.fr/html/grandes_ecoles/ecoles_ingenieurs/post_prepa/classement_general.jsp
In the latest ranking from Le Point, the top 12 schools also happen to be the ones have traditionally been recognized as the Top Tier (Groupe A) schools. It is for historical reasons rather than based on absolute quality. 
No doubt ENSAM would be at the top of Groupe B (which in my opinion doesn't mean it is less good than the last of Groupe A).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.134.183.25 (talk) 02:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I do hope that the quality of the English as well as the low level of debating style of this discussion is not a measure of the quality of the grandes écoles :-(
I asked a very experienced recruiter (ex Google) about where my daughter should study after she finishes her second year in prépas. A grandes école or a Dutch technical university. Sadly, her answer was:
From a recruiting and talent selection perspective anything that's called university and has a website and an international reputation is typically more sought after than grande ecoles.
Trying to rank the schools is impossible unless you have some objective measure. Some proposals:
Sort by Alphabet
Sort by (number of people doing the exam) / admissions, this will show exclusivity
Sort by average salary of a student leaving the school
Sort by a citation index
Sort by international ranking
Sort by hits on Google
Sort by quality of the website
I think showing a table of schools, sorted alphabetically, with all the relevant information is more informative that adding and deleting schools based on some subjective measure, let the reader judge the ranking. It is valuable to have a list of French schools. 
I read this item in Wikipedia after I got a reply from the recruiter. I like my kids to study in France because that is where we live. The bickering in this article did not help to improve my regard for the system ...
--90.42.218.45 (talk) 07:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Silly Discussion

message: It should be noted that the Grandes Ecoles don't require you to have studied in a prépa before. The exam is open to anybody. If you pass the exam, you can go to corresponding Grande Ecole. In the top Grandes Ecoles, tuition fees are approx. 0€, which means anybody can afford that.
This stresses a big difference between french elite schools and any other country in the world: France's elite schools basically get the smartest, regardless of if they are rich or not, of their cultural background, etc. - only the smartest.
But, statistically, almost all the students managing to pass the exam are the ones who studied in the classes prépas. Indeed, you learn a lot of mathematics in classes prépas.
From a foreign point of view, it should also be noted that the exam to the french Grandes Ecoles (ENS, X, ENSAE) are much more difficult than the exam that you might have to pass to enter a great university like Harvard or the MIT.
Also, in the french Grandes Ecoles you hardly work. Most of the time is dedicated to doing nothing (the so-called "glande") or partying. In the US or the UK, people really have to work to pass the exams. In the french Grandes Ecoles also, you don't learn much. That's the biggest criticism you can have against these schools. When you come out of the top 3 Grandes Ecoles, you don't know anything about life or business. The only thing you know is the math you've been learning in the prépas...
I think somebody should write something about that, because it really stresses out the particularities of the french elite educational system.
Please correct me if you think i'm wrong, but I've been studying in two of the top 3 french Grandes Ecoles for engineering, and, honestly, this is the truth.
81.65.145.101 (talk) 00:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: the recruitment methods and rules

message: This is about tag cleanup.  As all of the tags are more than a year old, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, they will be removed.  This is not a judgement of content.  If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made.  This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues.Jjdon (talk) 16:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: POV Tags

message: The observations at the beginning of this section may be interesting, but they need copy-editing, as well as references to verify that they are not original research. It should also be migrated to a more relevant section; it does not really relate to how the schools are categorized, but seems to have been inserted at random.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jordan Gray (talk • contribs) 12:16, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional information in the "Categories" section

message: I changed the "commercial" adjective because an organization created under the 1901 law is a non-profit organization ("association à but non lucratif" in French). It doesn't say that an association can't do any profit but these profits can't be shared between the founders or shareholders.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.175.208.153 (talk) 02:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Commercial vs non profit organization under the 1901 law

message: The fact that science is taught at a number of Grandes écoles is not sufficient to justify the French Science box that has been given great prominence at the right hand side of this page. -- MyPOV (talk) 00:56, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone ahead and removed it. -- MyPOV (talk) 01:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: French Science?

message: Wikipedia traffic statistics can be used as an objective criterion to rank Grandes écoles wikipedia pages. 
Top ranking 200901 for more than two hundreds Grandes Écoles d'Ingénieurs and Écoles Normales Supérieures" : 
*École Normale Supérieure
*École polytechnique
*École centrale Paris
*École nationale supérieure des mines de Paris
*École nationale des ponts et chaussées
*École nationale supérieure d'arts et métiers
*Grenoble Institute of Technology
*École Normale Supérieure de Lyon
*École centrale de Lille
*École Normale Supérieure de Cachan
*École centrale de Lyon
*Institut national des sciences appliquées
*École supérieure d'électricité
*École nationale supérieure des télécommunications
Top ranking 200901 for Grandes Écoles de Commerce and Instituts politiques: 
*École des hautes études commerciales
*ESCP-EAP European School of Management
*Institut d'Études Politiques de Paris
*École supérieure des sciences économiques et commerciales
*Audencia
The above clause has been removed by MyPOV as being Unreferenced and unscientific original research.
How can Wikipedia traffic data be unreferenced material, whereas it is linked from wikipedia history page of Grande Ecole ? This is indeed Wikipedia-generated material !!! It is straightforwards from Wikipedia to double-check that the traffic statistics for each page is in the decreasing order as stated in the ranking provided in the removed section.
How can the traffic figure and the order of ranking that results be considered unscientific original research, as this is just reformating pre-existing Wikipedia traffic data ? So that the ranking is not original : Wikipedia system is the original source !
MyPOV removed the above clause as being 'Unreferenced and unscientific original research' but does not comment on the preceeding clause about so-called 'famous schools' (copied-pasted below for discussion), which is unreferenced either and which is further more unscientific as being not related to anything. At least the rank above has some background evidence to define a ranking, whereas the unstable list of most famous things has not reality.
So that it is better to be consistent and either bring back the above clause or re-work heavily the section about Most famous engineering schools and like schools. 
Normal lionne (talk) 08:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "Wikipedia traffic statistics" is not a sufficient reference. Which statistics? How measured? Over what period of time? Where are the results to be found (no link was provided)? Etc. Then: what conclusions are to be taken from this ranking? It is not clear. It is not a methodology that has been validated for reaching any conclusions aside from determining the ranking of page visits to articles. This inclusion is a clear violation of the Wikipedia policy on original research (Wikipedia:NOR). -- MyPOV (talk) 20:37, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia ranking of ''Grandes écoles''

message: Begin of controversial section copy-paste -- to be re-worked with references and scientific research sources ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Normal lionne  (talk • contribs) 08:35, 4 February 2009
====Most famous Engineering Schools====
There is a broad spectrum of engineering schools, many recruiting after scientific preparatory class. Things may be a bit confusing since many schools have a lengthy official name (often beginning with École nationale supérieure or École supérieure), a shortened name, an acronym and, for the most famous, a nickname (and often a nickname for their students). Most of them are grouped in leagues, like Centrale and Supélec, ParisTech, Mines, the Institut TELECOM (previously Groupe des écoles des télécommunications, GET), the Université de Technologie (UT) in most public universities in all regions of France, etc. Most of them are also joint graduate schools from several regional universities where they are located, sometimes in association with other international higher education networks. They are:
* the École Centrale des Arts et Manufactures also called the École centrale Paris (ECP, or simply Centrale Paris) – part of Centrale;
* the École Centrale de Lyon (ECL, EC-Lyon, or Centrale Lyon)  part of Centrale Graduate Schools;
* the École Nationale Supérieure des Télécommunications de Bretagne (ENSTB, or TELECOM Bretagne), in Brest – part of Institut TELECOM;
* the École supérieure d'électricité (ESE, nicknamed Supélec) in Paris, Gif-sur-Yvette, Rennes, and Metz;
* the Institut supérieur de l'aéronautique et de l'espace (ISAE, merger of two institutes known as Supaéro and ENSICA) in Toulouse;
* the Institut national des sciences appliquées (INSA) network representing the largest engineer training group in France and grouping the most famous grandes écoles of applied technology within regional universities: in Lyon, Rennes, Toulouse, Rouen, and Strasbourg.
* The engineering schools within ParisTech:
** the École polytechnique (EP, nicknamed l'X) – depending on the French Ministry of Defense;
** the École nationale supérieure des mines de Paris (Mines ParisTech) – part of Mines;
** the École nationale des ponts et chaussées (ENPC, nicknamed the Ponts ParisTech);
** the École nationale supérieure d'arts et métiers (ENSAM, or Arts et métiers ParisTech)
** the Institut des sciences et industries du vivant et de l'environnement (or AgroParisTech, nicknamed Agro and including an internal school called ENGREF) – part of the Pôle des sciences de la vie et environnementales et technologies de la région de Paris;
** the École supérieure de physique et de chimie industrielles de la ville de Paris (ESPCI ParisTech) – formed by the city of Paris;
** the École nationale supérieure de chimie de Paris (Chimie Paris ParisTech);
** the École nationale de la statistique et de l'administration économique (ENSAE ParisTech) – formed by the Institut National de la Statistique et des Études Économiques (INSEE);
** the École nationale supérieure de techniques avancées (ENSTA ParisTech);
** the École nationale supérieure des télécommunications (TELECOM ParisTech, previously nicknamed SupTélécom) – part of Institut TELECOM;
** the Institut d'Optique Graduate School (IOGS, nicknamed SupOptique), associate member; — Preceding unsigned comment added by Normal lionne  (talk • contribs) 08:35, 4 February 2009
====Grandes Écoles d'Ingénieur located in France (non-exhaustive list)====
Grandes écoles with multiple specialization domains:
* Other "Centrale Graduate Schools": École centrale de Lille, École centrale de Marseille, École centrale de Nantes;
* the other "Écoles des Mines": the ENS des Mines de Saint-Étienne, ENS des Mines de Nancy, the Mines de Douai, the Mines de Nantes, the Mines d'Alès, the Mines d'Albi;
* the "Écoles Nationales Supérieures d'Ingénieurs" (ENSI), whose denomination encompasses about 40 engineering schools (including some listed below);
** the École nationale supérieure d'électronique, d'électrotechnique, d'informatique, d'hydraulique, et de télécommunications (ENSEEIHT, nicknamed N7), which is considered the largest ENSI, with more than 400 graduates every year, and one of the schools of the INP Toulouse;
** the École Nationale Supérieure d'Ingénieurs de Caen (ENSI Caen);
* the INSA group of écoles: INSA Lyon, INSA Rennes, INSA Rouen, INSA Strasbourg, INSA Toulouse;
* the Institut polytechnique de Grenoble: includes the Grenoble Institute of Technology, and the Grenoble INP (formerly INPG) which has six departments (ENSIMAG, ENSE3,PHELMA, ESISAR, Génie Industriel, Pagora).
Grandes écoles of physics:
* the École nationale supérieure de physique et chimie de Bordeaux (ENSCPB);
* the École nationale supérieure des ingénieurs en arts chimiques et technologiques (ENSIACET, nicknamed A7), also part of the INP Toulouse;
* the École supérieure de chimie physique électronique de Lyon (ESCPE, or CPE-Lyon);
* the École nationale supérieure de l'électronique et de ses Applications (ENSEA).
* the Institut des sciences de l'ingénieur de Toulon et du Var (ISITV).
Grandes écoles of information technology and telecommunications:
* the Institut national des télécommunications, (TELECOM SudParis, part of Institut TELECOM);
* the École supérieure d'informatique, électronique et automatique (ESIEA).
* the École supérieure d'ingénieurs en électronique et électrotechnique (ESIEE).
* the École nationale supérieure d'électronique, informatique et radiocommunications de Bordeaux (ENSEIRB).
* the École Supérieure d'Informatique et Applications de Lorraine (ESIAL);
* the École supérieure d'ingénieurs en informatique et génie des télécommunications (ESIGETEL).
* the École d'ingénieurs des technologies de l'information et du management (EFREI).
* the École Internationale des Sciences du Traitement de l'Information (EISTI).
* the École nationale supérieure d'informatique pour l'industrie et l'enterprise (ENSIIE, previously IIE);
* the École Pour l'Informatique et les Techniques Avancées (EPITA).
Grandes écoles of applied physics and technology or civil and industrial engeering:
* the École Nationale des Travaux Publics de l'État (ENTPE, nicknamed TPE, civil engineering);
* the Universités de technologie (UT) group: Compiègne (UTC), Troyes (UTT); Belfort-Montbéliard (UTBM);
* the École spéciale des travaux publics, du Bâtiment et de l'Industrie (ESTP, civil engineering);
* the École Nationale Supérieure de Mécanique et des Microtechniques (ENSMM);
* the École nationale supérieure des ingénieurs des études et techniques d'armement (ENSIETA), training French military engineers;
* the École nationale de l'aviation civile (ENAC), civilian air academy, also recruits Taupins.
Grandes écoles of biology and natural sciences:
* the other Écoles nationales supérieures d'agronomie (ENSA, nicknamed SupAgro);
* the École nationale supérieure de géologie (ENSG), whose graduates are Géoliens;
end of copy-paste of controversial section that miss scientific research references.
Normal lionne (talk) 08:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest a good place to start would be to establish a list that is indeed exhaustive by some externally verifiable criterion, as the present list is not exhaustive. It should be of all grandes écoles, not just of engineering schools, since this article is an article on grandes écoles in general. One place to start is the list of members of the Conférence des Grandes Ecoles. I encourage using the list of members of the Conférence despite what is presently said in the article, and in discussions above, about that list, unless someone can identify another reputable list of what constitutes a grande école. Then, it makes sense to group the schools by type and discipline, as is already done. (The Ecoles normales supérieures in one sub-list, engineering schools in another, administrative schools in another, etc.) One can also attempt to sort them by certain objective measures, such as whether they require preparatory classes or not, as is also already done. Beyond that, if one wants to establish criteria based upon reputation, any such ranking needs to come from an outside reputable source. The present article's listing of "Most famous Engineering Schools" is completely unsourced for its criterion, and has been tagged as deficient in this respect since July 2008. One possible source to look at is the set of books by L'Etudiant that list and describe French schools. (An example here.) Good luck! -- MyPOV (talk) 21:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversial "most famous" things

message: Grandes écoles with multiple specialization domains:
* Other "Centrale Graduate Schools": École centrale de Lille, École centrale de Marseille, École centrale de Nantes;
* the other "Écoles des Mines": the ENS des Mines de Saint-Étienne, ENS des Mines de Nancy, the Mines de Douai, the Mines de Nantes, the Mines d'Alès, the Mines d'Albi;
* the "Écoles Nationales Supérieures d'Ingénieurs" (ENSI), whose denomination encompasses about 40 engineering schools (including some listed below);
** the École nationale supérieure d'électronique, d'électrotechnique, d'informatique, d'hydraulique, et de télécommunications (ENSEEIHT, nicknamed N7), which is considered the largest ENSI, with more than 400 graduates every year, and one of the schools of the INP Toulouse;
** the École Nationale Supérieure d'Ingénieurs de Caen (ENSI Caen);
* the INSA group of écoles: INSA Lyon, INSA Rennes, INSA Rouen, INSA Strasbourg, INSA Toulouse;
* the Institut polytechnique de Grenoble: includes the Grenoble Institute of Technology, and the Grenoble INP (formerly INPG) which has six departments (ENSIMAG, ENSE3,PHELMA, ESISAR, Génie Industriel, Pagora).
Grandes écoles of physics:
* the École nationale supérieure de physique et chimie de Bordeaux (ENSCPB);
* the École nationale supérieure des ingénieurs en arts chimiques et technologiques (ENSIACET, nicknamed A7), also part of the INP Toulouse;
* the École supérieure de chimie physique électronique de Lyon (ESCPE, or CPE-Lyon);
* the École nationale supérieure de l'électronique et de ses Applications (ENSEA).
* the Institut des sciences de l'ingénieur de Toulon et du Var (ISITV).
Grandes écoles of information technology and telecommunications:
* the Institut national des télécommunications, (TELECOM SudParis, part of Institut TELECOM);
* the École supérieure d'informatique, électronique et automatique (ESIEA).
* the École supérieure d'ingénieurs en électronique et électrotechnique (ESIEE).
* the École nationale supérieure d'électronique, informatique et radiocommunications de Bordeaux (ENSEIRB).
* the École Supérieure d'Informatique et Applications de Lorraine (ESIAL);
* the École supérieure d'ingénieurs en informatique et génie des télécommunications (ESIGETEL).
* the École d'ingénieurs des technologies de l'information et du management (EFREI).
* the École Internationale des Sciences du Traitement de l'Information (EISTI).
* the École nationale supérieure d'informatique pour l'industrie et l'enterprise (ENSIIE, previously IIE);
* the École Pour l'Informatique et les Techniques Avancées (EPITA).
Grandes écoles of applied physics and technology or civil and industrial engeering:
* the École Nationale des Travaux Publics de l'État (ENTPE, nicknamed TPE, civil engineering);
* the Universités de technologie (UT) group: Compiègne (UTC), Troyes (UTT); Belfort-Montbéliard (UTBM);
* the École spéciale des travaux publics, du Bâtiment et de l'Industrie (ESTP, civil engineering);
* the École Nationale Supérieure de Mécanique et des Microtechniques (ENSMM);
* the École nationale supérieure des ingénieurs des études et techniques d'armement (ENSIETA), training French military engineers;
* the École nationale de l'aviation civile (ENAC), civilian air academy, also recruits Taupins.
Grandes écoles of biology and natural sciences:
* the other Écoles nationales supérieures d'agronomie (ENSA, nicknamed SupAgro);
* the École nationale supérieure de géologie (ENSG), whose graduates are Géoliens;
end of copy-paste of controversial section that miss scientific research references.
Normal lionne (talk) 08:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest a good place to start would be to establish a list that is indeed exhaustive by some externally verifiable criterion, as the present list is not exhaustive. It should be of all grandes écoles, not just of engineering schools, since this article is an article on grandes écoles in general. One place to start is the list of members of the Conférence des Grandes Ecoles. I encourage using the list of members of the Conférence despite what is presently said in the article, and in discussions above, about that list, unless someone can identify another reputable list of what constitutes a grande école. Then, it makes sense to group the schools by type and discipline, as is already done. (The Ecoles normales supérieures in one sub-list, engineering schools in another, administrative schools in another, etc.) One can also attempt to sort them by certain objective measures, such as whether they require preparatory classes or not, as is also already done. Beyond that, if one wants to establish criteria based upon reputation, any such ranking needs to come from an outside reputable source. The present article's listing of "Most famous Engineering Schools" is completely unsourced for its criterion, and has been tagged as deficient in this respect since July 2008. One possible source to look at is the set of books by L'Etudiant that list and describe French schools. (An example here.) Good luck! -- MyPOV (talk) 21:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Grandes Écoles d'Ingénieur'' located in France (non-exhaustive list)

message: Are there private Grandes écoles? --Max Shakhray (talk) 12:31, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Only public or also private?

message: I should point out that the Grandes Ecoles may be capitalised, unlike in the article. Pierrehenri8ieme (talk) 11:13, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Capitalisation

message: In view of ongoing spam here, please note this useful link for checking members of the Conférence des Grandes Ecoles.— Racconish Tk   08:47, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: SPAM

message: I deleted the Sciences-Po section. Sciences-Po Paris is no doubt an elite institution, and is more selective than many lower-ranked Grandes Ecoles, but it is not a Grande Ecole, especially now since its admissions process has gradually shifted away from the "concours" model (see the admissions process at the Master's level).  Though it is true that the Conférence des grandes écoles is "only" an association, it cannot be separated from the concept of "Grande école."  "Magistere" tracks within Universities are highly selective; yet they are not "Grandes écoles."  The "concours" is the essence of what is a grande école (see http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do;jsessionid=9191DF61EDAAAE3CB87334804F9BB8B1.tpdjo11v_1?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000000359000&dateTexte=20140215 for a legal definition of grande école: "A grande école is a higher education institution that admits its students through a concours . . . ." 
Sciences-po Paris does not admit its students through a concours, but either through an examination (http://www.sciencespo.fr/admissions/fr/college-examen-admission) or through a process that is more similar to that of the U.S. Universities (http://www.sciencespo.fr/admissions/fr/master-examen-admission). 
I'd by happy to discuss this issue, but I do not believe that Sciences Po belongs to this page (FYI, the French version of this articles does not reference the Institutions d'études politiques as being Grandes écoles, see http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_école).  That's not to diminish the importance of Sciences Po in the French higher education system; obviously, Sciences Po Paris is more selective and more renowned than many grandes écoles.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.136.180 (talk) 04:18, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Sciences-Po

message: Recently, a user whose edits seem centred on ESSEC business school removed the sourced Financial Times ranking (in which ESSEC was fifth in France) and replaced it with their personal opinion (ESSEC is one of the two best schools in France). That is certainly WP:OR, and pretty close to vandalism. And deleting sourced content because of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not serious. We could definitely discuss adding a second ranking as long as it's a respected one, but the one by Financial Times has been used in this article for years. Suddenly degrading Financial Times because a school one user happens to like fell in its ranking is not serious.Jeppiz (talk) 19:13, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The rankings have nothing do to on such a global page. Only the whole number of ranked school might be interesting.  Even if the other users, Deepbug and the other IP, are pushing Essec, they have a point. If you mention one ranking you have to mention all the existing others. Otherwise it can be considered as POV Pushing (Why is it right to favor one ranking instead of another ?). Anyway i'm deleting the ranking details right now. Information can be add on the pages of the institutions. Please Jeppiz, do not try to re-write it, everybody is losing time on this. But do continue to add interesting facts if you have non-biased sources. Maxicar (talk) 00:33, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Maxicar, I do see your point but if you do away with the rankings, please put the schools in alphabetical order. I don't see the idea of having them in the order of prominence if no ranking is given. (For the record, I'm not the one who brought in the FT ranking; the POV-ESSEC users were perfectly happy to use it while their school ranked better than the competition. I updated to the latest version.)Jeppiz (talk) 20:39, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Rankings

message: I think the page title should be changed to the singular number, Grandes école. That is in line with University. It is the concept of Grandes école that is covered here, not the existing collection of Grandes écoles. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:25, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page title 

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thread_title:  External links modified