Talk:Harbin Hot Springs

message: I'm new to WikiPedia, and don't have time to do a good re-write at the moment, so wanted to put a few thoughts up here first:
1. The "Currently maintened by 150+ residents ..." sentenced appears twice in close proximity and should be revised.
2. The link to: http://jwester.cts.com/harbin.html appears to be dead, but can be found at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050317125308/jwester.cts.com/harbin.html 
If it is to be included, the text should include some mention of the Frontiers of Science / Harbinger University period in the late 60s to provide context.
3. The simply stated "After a decline in the 1950's, Harbin was largely abandoned until the early 1970's" may be a bit misleading as it was open for business at least several summers in early 1960s followed by the "Harbinger University" period.  I'm not sure just how much historical detail is desirable, but I'd be happy to try to write a "very short summary" of the detailed history Klages wrote.  For starters, Robert Hartley (aka Ishvara who still lives at Harbin) purchased the land in May 1972, and sold it to the newly created Heart Consciousness Church in Feb. 1975, and the local natives were known as the Lake Miwok.
4. Feel free to correct the "syle" of my date and ISBN citation of the 2 mentioned books.  It may also be worth adding a reference to "Oneness in Living" by Ishvara (2002 ) which I believe dedicates ~100 pages to Harbin Hot Springs.
--Havspace 07:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revision Thoughts 

message: i've seen this here for a while, and i could find no documentation via the internet for it. if anyone can document it, that would be great, i dont want to try to "clean up" their history. also, there was a link to a poem, by an unpublished poet, alluding to the excesses. while i dont doubt the sincerity of the poet, its not a good reference for this material.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 19:17, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was there during the hippie "cult" or Garbinger era. I am a published author. I am a notable Wikipedian. I stand forth as an authoritative source. The poem, by John Wester is accurate. I was acquainted with him. I will be reinstating this section. Removal of it is ridicuous. My name is catherine yronwode. You can look me up in Wijikipedia or at my own sites. cat yronwode 64.142.90.33 (talk) 19:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: my apologies for this deletion. i was hoping to find more info to support the material, and was personally very curious to learn more. i was in hindsight too hasty to remove the reference. i still think the poem is rather vague to use as a reference, but i swear i wont revert, as thats rude. more background, esp nonweb, printed articles, id love to see here. And i do know your name from the comic field. i used to read your publications avidly. i recognize your authority, as a member of the intelligentsia, period. i was going to try to flesh out some of the comic book articles someday from my memories. i especially think Jack Katz deserves an article. you recall the First Kingdom i hope. sincerely, and apologetically, Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:18, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: i added back the reference to the book that documents the previous owners of the property. i kept the language fairly neutral, not having read the book. any claims in the book that use language that is highly POV should be quoted if added, so the article here is NPOV. and im sorry, but a poem cant be accurate if its language is not literal. at least it cant be accurate in the sense of being a reference for others to use. i have read accounts of events that while not written in a documentary style, still captured the Zeitgeist for me. but i dont think its easy to include such documents in an encyclopedia. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 02:40, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "hippie cult" references removed 

message: :Ishvara. 2002. Oneness in Living: Kundalini Yoga, the Spiritual Path, and the Intentional Community. North Atlantic Books. .
:Klages, Ellen. 1991. Harbin hot springs: healing waters, sacred land. Harbin Springs Publishing. .
:Varner GR. 2009. Sacred wells: a study in the history, meaning, and mythology of holy wells and waters, 2nd edition. Algora Publishing. .
:Wyne, Sajjad. 1997. The big bang and the Harbin experience. Harbin Springs Publishing. .
Useful Excerpts:
:Harbin Hot Springs (Varner 2009, pp 74-75)
::Continuing our journey, we found dozens of hot springs and sacred sites in Sonoma and Lake Counties two hundred miles to the southwest of Mt. Shasta. One of the most famous is Harbin Hot Springs, located four miles outside the town of Middletown. Due to the facility's clothing optional policies, I was not allowed inside the facility to take photographs or to see the source spring, which has been capped over with cement anyway. Unfortunately, many of the most sacred and healing of springs have come under private ownership, invariably resulting in commercialism and the alteration of the spring's natural appearance. However, the natural healing properties of the water are still very potent. Situated above a large magma chamber 4 miles underground and 13 miles in diameter, the water is heated and rises toward the surface as steam where it cools and returns to its liquid state. 
::According to Nathaniel Altman, the Coast and Lake Miwok used the present Harbin site as a seasonal camp and sacred ground, with the hot springs both a place of healing and a path to the spiritual realms. [135] During the Miwok settlement of the area, Harbin was called eetawyomi , or the hot place. The hot springs have been active at Harbin for over a million years [136] and its waters are composed primarily of sulfur, iron and arsenic with sodium, potassium, magnesium, carbonates and other elements evident. 
::By the time Spanish explorers reached the land of the Lake Miwok, pools had been dug into the ground at Harbin where the Miwok would bathe in the hot spring water. Ellen Klages, in her history of Harbin, wrote that the springs were owned by the Lake Miwok but were accessible to all tribes: 
:::"Men and women who were sick were brought to the springs for its curative powers; Pomos, Wappos and Wintuns camped there routinely; and any tribes traveling through from the coast to the inland valleys were also welcome." [137]
::The hot springs were also regarded as an entryway into the underworld, as are many other sacred wells and springs around the world. Shamans would enter a trance state and then their spirits would travel from the physical realm to the spiritual where they would talk with the spirits to learn. The shaman would then return to the physical world to heal with the newly learned knowledge.
::After the Mexican and then American settlement of California, the hot springs became a popular resort and remains so today.
::[135] Lapena, Frank R. Wintu in Handbook of North American Indians: Volume 8-California. Washington: Smithsonian Institution, 1978. p 41. 
::[136] Klages, Ellen. 1991. Harbin Hot Springs: Healing Waters Sacred Land. Middletown: Harbin Springs Publishers. p 7. 
::[137] Ibid. p 55
:North America's Healing Wells (Varner 2009, p 141)
::The hot springs and mineral springs of Vichy Springs, Harbin Hot Springs and Calistoga in California are perhaps a few of the more famous American healing springs. [330] The hot spring waters of Calistoga come from deep inside the earth, warmed over a huge, 13-mile in diameter magma pool. These waters are effective in the relief and treatment of rheumatism, arthritis and stress induced ailments. Harbin Hot Springs, which has four types of waters including arsenic (used only for skin treatments and never ingested), sulfur, magnesia and iron. Combined, these waters are useful for the treatment of skin ailments, intestinal distress, kidney troubles, rheumatism and other joint diseases and circulatory problems.
::[330] Heizer. Robert F. Natural Forces and Native World View, in Handbook of North America Indians: Volume 8-California. Washington: Smithsonian Institution 1978, 652. See Chapter 2 for detailed descriptions of these sites.
TheProfessor (talk) 14:05, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

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