Talk:Baháʼí administration

message: Here are a some quotes from Shoghi Effendi and the Univeral House of Justice to clarify the guidance on Baha'i administration. While no local or national spiritual assembly is perfect, this is what Baha'is are aiming for. I'm not sure that long quotes are suitable for the article, which is why they are being copied here. 
Character of Baha'i Administration
:In "The Dispensation of Baha'u'llah", Shoghi Effendi states:
*This new-born Administrative Order incorporates within its structure certain elements which are to be found in each of the three recognized forms of secular government, without being in any sense a mere replica of any one of them, and without introducing within its machinery any of the objectionable features which they inherently possess.
The three forms of secular government to which the Guardian refers are Autocracy (rule by one person), Aristocracy (rule by the best people) and Democracy (rule by all the people). Referring again to these three forms of secular government, the Guardian writes, later in that same document:
*Whereas this Administrative Order cannot be said to have been modelled after any of these recognized systems of government, it nevertheless embodies, reconciles and assimilates within its framework such wholesome elements as are to be found in each one of them. The hereditary authority which the Guardian is called upon to exercise, the vital and essential functions which the Universal House of Justice discharges, the specific provisions requiring its democratic election by the representatives of the faithful -- these combine to demonstrate the truth that this divinely revealed Order, which can never be identified with any of the standard types of government referred to by Aristotle in his works, embodies and blends with the spiritual verities on which it is based the beneficent elements which are to be found in each one of them. The admitted evils inherent in each of these systems being rigidly and permanently excluded, this unique Order, however long it may endure and however extensive its ramifications, cannot ever degenerate into any form of despotism, of oligarchy, or of demagogy which must sooner or later corrupt the machinery of all man-made and essentially defective political institutions. 
(Letters of The Universal House of Justice, 1995 Dec 02, Email Discussion Group Concerns) Occamy 20:16, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it might be an idea to remove the reply to the critics because... they're all kind of obvious. -- Tomhab 22:31, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elections 

message: The quote referring to the British parliament on the Character... section has been deleted because in this context it implies Baha'u'llah preferred parliamentary democracy, which is not the case. Baha'u'llah writes of the importance of kingship too, which is not democratic in nature: 
*"Although a republican form of government profiteth all the peoples of the world, yet the majesty of kingship is one of the signs of God.  We do not wish that the countries of the world should remain deprived thereof.  If the sagacious combine the two forms into one, great will be their reward in the presence of God.". Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, page 28 
In any case, the Baha'i Administrative Order in its current early form is not identified with the future world government foretold by Baha'u'llah and outlined by Shoghi Effendi in a letter written on his behalf:
*"As regards the International Executive referred to by the Guardian in his "Goal of a New World Order", it should be noted that this statement refers by no means to the Baha'i Commonwealth of the future, but simply to that world government which will herald the advent and lead to the final establishment of the World Order of Baha'u'llah.  The formation of this International Executive, which corresponds to the executive head or board in present-day national governments, is but a step leading to the Baha'i world government of the future, and hence should not be identified with either the institution of the Guardianship or that of the International House of Justice." Shoghi Effendi 17 March 1934 letter to two believers; Peace, page 193; also Lights of Guidance, page 321. --Occamy 09:39, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character of Baha'i Administration 

message: Ok, the title of this comment is really just a personal in-joke, and a mild reference to the "Structure" section rework that cunado is doing.  I just wanted to approve of the clean-up so-far, and suggest that we need to really work on referencing in this section.  I'm as bad as the rest, and have added stuff without proper referencing.  I'll try to improve that, but we can all improve. --Christian Edward Gruber 19:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Structural Adjustment 

message: Is it true that elections always happen on the same day? If yes, should this information be added to the text?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.131.8.100 (talk) 16:52, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: more or less yes - mostly yes. The local, national and universal house of justice elections happen on Ridván. Delegates, if elected, happen on other days as do regional elections. Something to look for details on but yes something should be mentioned. --Smkolins (talk) 23:13, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Open Questions

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Counsellors 2005-12-28.jpg

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There has been significant criticism of the Baha'i administration in reliable sources, e.g., Juan Cole, Denis MacEoin, Bei Dawei. This is not reflected in the article. Furthermore, it is based on many primary religious texts, and otherwise Baha'i sources most of which aren't RS (though some are). There is one newspaper article but we would hope for scholarly material if possible. I am tagging this for now, but hopefully I will get to improving it soon. Gazelle55 (talk) 01:08, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Just added a neutral review (about 5 pages) that I summarized by a few quotes. As for those there is clearly a problem of the toxic relationship they have with the Baha'is. Smkolins (talk) 13:42, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for adding the Ripley source to the article. I think it's a good addition. With that said, the fact that certain authors are ex-Baha'is who are now critics of the religion doesn't invalidate them as sources anymore than sources written by Baha'is should be excluded from the article. We should cover all major viewpoints with due weight in proportion to their appearance in reliable sources in line with WP:NPOV, and their biographical details would be at most a marginal detail in determining reliability. I wrote more about that here. And we can't assume Ripley (non-Baha'i who writes favorably) is more "neutral" than Bei Dawei (non-Baha'i who writes critically). I'm going to re-introduce the POV template that another editor removed since I still feel the article doesn't reflect critical viewpoints (even if more non-Baha'i sources are now included). Hopefully I can get to making additions soon to balance out the article. Gazelle55 Let's talk! 22:41, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

text: Could you clarify that? I am not aware of any toxic relationship, only with certain people being dissatisfied with the mainstream Bahá'í practice of literature review. That cannot be called a toxic relationship. Mineemod (talk) 14:48, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality