Talk:Dizocilpine

message: This statement is unsourced. What does it really mean? Permanent?
Miserlou (talk) 21:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Residual deficits in thinking 

message: A drug is truly addictive when it interferes with a persons life. For the purposes of a rats, addictive behavior has been noted in the subculture of drug abuse; perhaps this is urban legend, but perhaps "bag rats" - rats will actually risk detection in order to grab mostly empty bags that once held methamphetamine in order to stick their heads in and lick the bags, that live amongst the filth associated with long-term abusers in run down neighborhoods. 
That is a sharp contrast from lever pressing behavior; to understand this, one must merely contemplate that the rat in a cage generally has nothing else very exciting to do but press the lever in the first place, and all the challenges of its life, such as obtaining food, safety, and shelter, have already been pre-eliminated by the lab conditions.
The end result is that the lever pressing studies tend to show addictive potential in every instance that a drug is not perceived by the organism to be actually unpleasant. It is entirely possible to construct a lever pressing study that will show that injections of sucrose solution are quite addictive - all you need are bored rats that don't much care for the taste of their otherwise nutritious chow, and therefore slightly undereat it, and will experience a mild "boost" from the sugar injection's raising of blood sugar level... and if you actually let them eat and swallow it, it becomes even more "addictive" ... 
Show me rats that will press a lever that causes a mild electric shock half the time, and the other half of the time administers a drug pellet, in an otherwise interesting environment filled with stuff to play with and challenges with rewards (tastier food snacks that require work to obtain, for example), and THEN a drug can be said to be truly addictive to the rat! In the meantime, this article seems to indicate that several human studies or anecdotes suggest strongly that human addicts apparently reject this material as a substance of abuse, which means it is probably not truly an addiction risk. Zaphraud (talk) 19:43, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lever pressing studies are fundamentally flawed.. 

message: I have deleted this section. The dosage mentioned was 5mg/kg in humans.
This is correctly cited from the given ref. The reason for deleting is:
0.05mg/kg have been described for their behavioral toxicity effects in rats.
10mg/kg has been described as a lethal dosis in rats in the data sheet of the substance. 0.03mg/kg have been described as TDLo in rats. A human fatality has been described in a mixed intoxication with 25mg, but 5mg/kg would be 350mg in a 70kg human! I believe 5mg/kg is a transcription error in the ref and orders of magnitudes off. The same ref descibes dizocilpine as much more potent than PCP, which supports that this could be a transcription error.
I do not want some unlucky Wiki reader trying to replicate this "human experience" in himself with a dose that is close to LD100(!) in rats. Humans are usually much more sensitive than rats, who are genetically optimized by nature to eat all kind of stuff like rotten meat and being much more tough little darlings than humans are. I have contacted the author of the ref and asked him to take a look. Please keep it like that until there is better
evidence. I believe Wiki policy is against inclusion of dosage in chemical and pharmaceutical articles, in particular in articles and substances like this.
70.137.156.196 (talk) 05:04, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: re "human experience"