Talk:Círdan

message: contribs) 05:49, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

message: OMG someone changed the years of Cirdans age to 36,000! we really need to reach a consensus on the age of Cirdan. For now i've reverted this change. But we need several people working on this to reach a conclusion.
-Frosty_King April 15th 2007
Ok, you have to give me some time, i'm rather swamped with work, school, and other projects. I'll begin by redoing sections at a time. If you want to make changes thats fine, its best to get a hold of me by emailing me btw. frosty.king@gmail.com .
Frosty, I think we are beginning to see some consensus here, and we should either take user:Eggishorn up on his surgery offer, or you should take a stab at this. I think as a template we should look at the Galadriel page. She is a character of similar importance and age. Her biography section is 1200 words, which ought to be ample for Cirdan. 
So a intro paragraph or two describing who he is at a high level (you have this pretty well).
Then a Biography which would have the following content:
- He was one of the first elves who awakened at Cuiviénen.
- He was originally called Nowe
- He travelled with the main group of Elves when the chiefs promoted a move to Valinor
- He arrived at the shore 3 years after the Noldor and Vanyar and built ships
- After a message from the Valar in a dream he decided not to go.
- Took the name Cirdan as lord of the Falathrim
- Fought at Dagor Bragollach
- The Havens are destoyed by Morgoth
- retreat to Balar, but eventually returned to the Mouths of Sirion
- Feanor's sons and the 3rd Kinslaying
- Sundering of Beleriand, new Havens on Middle Earth
- Friendship with Numenor
- Against his counsel the rings are forged
- Battles with Sauron
- Part of the last alliance when the one ring was captured
- His forces helped defeat Angmar
- Gives the ring to Gandalf - sensing that he is the wisest of the Istari
- Entrusted with the palantir
- Was part of the White Council who's advise led to Sauron being chased back to Mordor
- Built the ships that took the last ring-bearers to Valinor.
I think this would still be a "too long" bio. After this bio, give a mention to his appearance in the movie.
Everything else is superfluous I would say.
Does that sound ok? I can help you draft a revised version if you like. We definitely need to make the style more encyclopedic too.
--Smcgrother 18:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: This is much, much too long, and includes things that are undoubtedly unimportant.  Yes, I know that Tolkeenologists love minutiae, but, for instance, the White Council neither included nor nor influenced, nor was influenced by Cirdan.  Furthermore, the whole article is written with a too-concious attempt to mimic Tolkien's style, and it is not encyclopedic in tone.  It doesn not seem to follow the style guide's recommendations about fictional works
:The White Council certainly did include Círdan. He is explicitly one of five members specified by name by Tolkien. In "Of The Rings of Power and the Third Age", he writes: "...and in that time was first made the Council of the Wise that is called the White Council, and therein were Elrond and Galadriel and Círdan, and other lords of the Eldar, and with them were Mithrandir and Curunir." p. 360 in my Del Rey paperback edition of the Silmarillion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.2.252 (talk) 21:34, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I began work on making the tone somewhat more encyclopedic on the First Age section. I'll leave the experts to nitpick and continue, and if my revisions were really horrible, there are always reversions. If there are no objections (if there are, say so), I will continue tomorrow. --queso man 01:45, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  In the two years since this post, there has been little improvement. The style is inappropriate and the detail far too great for an encyclopedia article. Other Middle Earth sites can provide the achingly pedantic detail that Tolkien fans like me love. For the casual reader, there is way too much background. Wellspring (talk) 14:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

text:  Update: I did a cleanup. I tried to strip out all the flowery language. There were numerous diversions which boil down to yet another retelling of the History of Middle Earth, so I stripped most of the asides away. What's left is, in my opinion, still too long, but it's more serviceable and I can't strip more away without taking out events that Círdan actually participated in. Summarizing will require some kind of outside literary critic to quote. Wellspring (talk) 15:59, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I did my best to revise the article and trim extraneous info. There is probably still more that can be done. The long block-quotes seem unnecessary but I didn't want to remove them, in case the article was tagged for not citing any sources. Rajah1 (talk) 17:29, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Length, tone, and style

message: The Wikipedia entry says that in the FA, Sam and Cirdan sailed off, and there is a  tag on it. The inline comments ask if Cirdan really did sail off with Sam?
The canonical books do not say this. Appendix A.I.iii says some say he dwells there still. Appendix B, SR year 1482, says that Sam passed over, last of the Ringbearers. I don't have access to the HoME, etc, volumes to compare.
But this also begs another question. Was Cirdan ever really considered a ringbearer, even tho he kept charge of one of the Three? From memory (albeit poor ATM), the title ringbearer was only used for those who held the One Ring. Yngvarr (c) 18:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think Círdan must be considered as a ring-bearer. (Mapar007 15:18, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sailing off with Sam?