Talk:Amazing Grace/Archive 1

message: "He continued to be a slave trader for several years after his experience, but with more compassion." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fantrl (talk • contribs) 12:50, 29 June 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  compasionate slave trader? 

message: Some times it is necessary to include a trivia heading.  Not many people know this but Swing Low Sweet Chariot can be sung underneath Amazing Grace. Try it out. Kosmo9288 03:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The words can doubtless be sung to hundreds of tunes, from many cultures around the world. But is this information notable, or verifiable? I think not, and so I will delete this section. Feel free to put it back if you can provide a reliable source. Matt's talk 04:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I've seen two local performances of this song, done for comic effect, sung to the tune of "Gilligan's Island".  I can't document these performances due to the age and nature of these small shows, but they were separate performances by different artists.  I'm adding this comment to encourage others to document a more widespread use if they can. It would be especially interesting if it can be determined it's this discussion creating the phenomenon. Neondrmr (talk) 20:00, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not that strange. "Amazing Grace" is a common meter hymn, and many poems and hymns were written in common meter, making the lyrics interchangeable with any tune that could fit eight syllables in the first line and six in the second. This is noted in the article, as is the fact that Newton's lyrics were sung to about 30 different melodies (and still are). --Moni3 (talk) 20:56, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivial Trivia 

message: "A great irony of the song's history and its role in the civil rights era is that Newton reached his greatest success in the slave trade after writing the song and being born again (although this is not to imply a connection between his profession and his faith)."
This statement does not match up with other information available on Wikipedia.org.
The article on John Newton only mentions his slave trade career in passing.  The majority of the article focuses on his time as an Anglican priest so to suggest that reached his "greatest success" in any profession other than the one for which he is most well known, is misleading.
Also there is no indication that he continued his slave trade while serving as a priest and it was during his time as a priest that he penned Amazing Grace.  He claimed to have converted to Christianity in 1748 and he continued as a slave trader for some time following.  He entered the priesthood in 1764 and did not meet the co-author of the hymn until 1767.  According to this page, the hymn was written in sometime in 1772 and it was first published as a collection of hymns in 1779.
This statement needs to be deleted.
Jackieplondon 19:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: you forgot to mention the fact that the song was also recorded by the successful japanese j-pop singer Mika Nakashima in two different versions, one of them used in her album "BEST", and the other one in her album "TRUE", you did write it in articles referring to the singer, but you did not mention her here(both of the versions can be watched on youtube).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Forevergitsandff (talk • contribs) 22:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  missing information (about singers who performed "amazing grace) 

message: christian childrens fund had a version done of amazing grace sung by a male accapella,can anybody tell me who the artist is.thank you  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Latinsc2 (talk • contribs) 00:50, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  amazing grace 

message: :"a rock version of Amazing Grace with an added chorus which has since become widely popular in the CCM community."
Who is the CCM Community?  Can someone expand that abbreviation and wikilink it? SchmuckyTheCat
::It looked like fan-vertising.  I've re-arranged things to put it as just another item in the list of versions and tried to neutralise the unsourced opinions ("widely popular" etc.) CCM is "Contemporary Christian Music", by the way. Feline Hymnic (talk) 01:00, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See #Todd_Agnew.27s_Grace_Like_Rain. The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  WHAT?  Who? 

message: Does this movie actually have anything to do with the song? If not, why is it even mentioned? (ApJ (talk) 13:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. The movie references the life of John Newton who wrote the hymn text. So I think a mention is fair. But such mentions should be brief, as the movie has its own article. Indeed, I've just stripped out much extraneous stuff. Feline Hymnic (talk) 00:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ApJ: I've come to agree with you.  The movie has its own article.  And 'our' article starts with a disambiguation reference which guides anyone seeking the movie towards it. So I've removed the reference for the time being. Feline Hymnic (talk) 13:49, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Movie 

message: For some reason I don't see, this article is in :Category:Song_articles_missing_an_audio_sample, and it has audio samples, now, so maybe the code for taking it out of that category is broken. I don't see an explicit inclusion of this article in that category. BrewJay (talk) 08:18, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We must amend  to include a sample. The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category Mismatch 

message: Many believe that Newton heard the music from the slaves he transported who usually only knew 5 notes or what we call the "Black Notes" or what Europeans call Pentatonic. If you check most Slave Spirituals you'll find the same 5 black notes on almost all Negro Spirituals. There are many that actually believe the "Slave Scale" is the foundation of Newton's Amazing Grace. 
A link that helps : http://pjcockrell.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/amazing-grace-just-the-black-notes/
Happy Understanding -- Taylor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.157.68.144 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Newton didn't even write the music.  The tune is called New Britain and first showed up in the Virginia Harmony, published after Newton's death. Tb (talk) 02:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical Inaccuracies 

message: I have nothing against pictures of bagpipers, but a picture of a bagpiper--even if we are told he's playing Amazing Grace--does not add to the article.  It's not a picture of Amazing Grace, it doesn't actually say anything about Amazing Grace.  If there were some way of seeing, from the picture, that it's a picture of Amazing Grace, that would be fine.  But a picture of a bagpiper playing Scotland the Brave would look identical: indeed, we have only a flickr caption to tell what it claims to be.  Tb (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of bagpiper 

message: ;Moved from talkpages 
*First edit, revert
Please don't use the undo tool (or at least, don't leave the automatic summary in) if you are reverting a good faith edit. What exactly where the "errors" contained in my edit and why did you revert it. I can't see how it introduced errors when I didn't actually change the text. Lists shouldn't be embedded in articles like this when prose would suffice or actually be an improvement. Regards. Woody (talk) 22:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the note.  What's a "erathe"? And "on several occasion". (Should the latter be plural?) These weren't there before, so the text did actually change.  This information is list-like, so a list mechanism was natural way to present it when we were tidying up the article a couple of months ago and accords with WP:EMBED (that you mention). That does recommend embedded lists for some things: see the second form of their New York City buildings and their "Philosophers discuss" examples. And that information in "Amazing Grace" seems to be in that category.  (Perhaps it needs a some "parental" heading text, though.) Could I suggest we continue discussion on Talk:Amazing Grace rather than here?  Hope that helps. Feline Hymnic (talk) 23:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have absolutely no idea what "erathe" is! ;) it was meant to be "era the" but it doesn't take much to put a space in, nor does it take much to put an s on the end of occasions. I do think prose works a lot better here than a two or three bullet list, as would most reviewers at FAC. The Franklin bit needs a reference as well, why exactly is it notable in the history of this hymn? Regards Woody (talk) 21:53, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should number ones be in list format? 

message: ~im doing an essay on the song amazing grace and would like anyones input on what they get out of the song -what it means to them.
thank you 24.32.64.183 (talk)sylvia24.32.64.183 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 00:06, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  amazing grace 

message: ""New Britain" first appears in a shape note hymnal from 1829 called Columbian Harmony."
Most people seem to agree the Coumbian Harmony was published in 1825. Flapdragon (talk) 11:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Columbian Harmony 

message: This little tidbit appears in the article:
the tune "New Britain" of which the composer is unknown and which is in William Walker's shape-note tunebook Southern Harmony, 1835.[3]
Shape Note version from 1835.
The melody later known as "New Britain" first appears in Columbian Harmony (1829),
So, which is it? Did the tune first appear in 1835 or 1829? Or is the first sentence just horribly constructed, and meant to indicate that the tune was first put to these lyrics in 1835? What's going on, man? 68.102.237.253 (talk) 06:14, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The tune first appeared in 1829 in Columbian Harmony.  With minor variations, it appeared again in Virginia Harmony (1831), and Genuine Church Music (1832), all with different texts.  Finally, it appears as "New Britain" in Southern Harmony (1835), now linked with Newton's hymn.  I've revised the paragraph to make this clearer. Finn Froding (talk) 14:45, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tune From When? 

message: There appears to be two versions of the sixth verse. One that starts "When we've been there ten thousand years.." and another that starts "the earth will soon dissolve like snow..." Which one is right? Tallarchangel (talk) 03:12, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Newton's original sixth verse is "The earth will soon dissolve like snow...". Edwin Othello Excell published a hymnal (see the Urban revival section) that popularized a version of four verses: Newton's first three and a fourth verse not written by Newton starting with "When we've been there ten thousand years..." There have been dozens of versions of Newton's verses set to different music, with his verses, with other verses. I'm not sure there is such a thing as a right version, though. --Moni3 (talk) 13:34, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Sixth Verses 

message: What exactly is an "African American spiritual"?  Slaves were not US citizens, so this seems to be an anachronistic term on some level.  Moreover, the term "negro spiritual" is used on the Wikipedia page that it links to.  Copious examples of the use of negro spiritual are available.  "African American spiritual" sounds like a neologism.  Would like to change.  HedgeFundBob (talk) 09:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this can be debated I guess. Africans didn't come over on slave ships singing Christian songs. It took a generation or two. But the article on Spiritual seems to assert that "Negro spiritual" is the proper terminology. It's cited five times, but none of them are really reliable sources. Do you know of an authoritative source, as in an encyclopedia of music or some such, that would confirm this is the term used for this genre of music? --Moni3 (talk) 12:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isn't the appropriate term "negro spiritual"? 

message: Hi, can you please add citation for "It has been played following American national disasters such as such as the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, the Oklahoma City bombing, and the September 11 attacks". 
I can understand, that User Moni3 removed my request as obvious for Americans, but speaking as somebody from the other side of world without daily detailed media coverage of the events in question, I'd like to have some references for that. Regards 87.162.65.103 (talk) 08:15, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  citation needed for use of the song in national disasters 

message: I noticed the article says Amazing Grace was translated in "Cherokee." This really should read: "...into Tsalagi" (which is the name of our language). We don't call our language "Cherokee". It would be nice if Moni or someone else would change it. Thanks. Great article, as usual, Moni.--TEHodson 05:13, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Tsalagi redirects to Cherokee (and there's only one mention of the term in that article). There is an article for Cherokee language. What do you suggest? --Moni3 (talk) 13:57, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest saying "Tsalagi" and letting it redirect, but that's because it's important to me (and mine). It's probably of little interest to anyone else (which is a painful fact of life). Would it be too cumbersome to say "Tsalagi, the Cherokee language" or "Tsalagi, the language of the Cherokee people" or even just "the Cherokee language" with a wikilink to it? The latter would be better than plain "Cherokee" which seems to name the language. The article is beautifully written and I don't want you to feel it's being compromised; I can only tell you it's discouraging that such elementary things are not understood, but it's a common problem for tribal people who have been conquered. "Cherokee" isn't our name for ourselves, either. The other article is in need of some repair, too. By the way, I had absolutely no idea that AG had such an involved history! I can't really stand the song, and ended up on the article because someone wanted to sing it at an upcoming funeral and I thought it too Christian for our atheist friend, and so I decided to read about it. Good work. And thanks for listening.--TEHodson 18:39, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Ga li 'e li 'ga, v g lv, Moni. (I am grateful, my sister. From Awi Usdi, aka --TEHodson 20:37, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sweet. Rock on and w00t. --Moni3 (talk) 20:41, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cherokee language 

message: According to:
* Orozco, Ron. "Merced Hmong Alliance Church." The Fresno Bee. Saturday January 12, 2002. H2.
The name of "Amazing Grace" in Hmong is "Yexus Hlub Kuv"
WhisperToMe (talk) 00:45, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Hmong name