Talk:Punjabis

message: Pashtuns are an iranian ethnic group originating from afghanistan
pashtuns in afghanistan didn't have a lot of contact with punjabis
pashtuns rarely married punjabis since it was against the pashtunwali
(f.e. in afghanistan is a small punjabi minority who live extremly isolated)
pashtuns live on the iranian plateau and punjabis on the Indian subcontinent
pashtuns are waaay closer related to the iranians
if punjabis and pashtuns are related it's distand and definitely not as close as punjabis and sindhis are related to each other 
pashtuns lived extremly isolated , punjabis were great merchants all over india
pashtuns also have different phenotypes than punjabis
and also if this goes on as a edit war , it's probably best to remove the related ethnic groups  Vikingswarri (talk) 09:27, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you we should just end the edit war and leave pashtuns out of the related ethnic groups.Filpro (talk) 14:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If you did agree, then do not readd Pashtuns to the related ethnic groups. Khestwol (talk) 05:39, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: i have reconsidered it and I believe it is better to add since they are also a neighboring ethnic group.Filpro (talk) 20:31, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pashtuns  

message: It appears that vandals (who are not signed in and permanently leaving their IP address stamps behind) are intentionally removing pictures of Pakistani / Muslim Punjabis and replacing it with only Indians. 
One of the IP addresses identified is from India: 122.164.190.132 (yes, I understand they are not static). Another user identified is "FilPro". 
If you're that insecure about the Indian Punjabi population, deal with it constructively within the country of India, in real life, or on the "Indian Punjabi" wiki page, instead of vandalizing the "Punjabi peoples" Wikipedia page. Bollywood actors and b-list / c-list / d-list Indian singers / movie makers are not significant "Prominent Punjabis."' The picture section is reserved for individuals who are intellects, academics, historical / religious / political figures, prominent athletes and business persons that are world renowned, well known among non-Punjabis, or have impacted the global population at large. Not some two-bit entertainers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vdr11 (talk • contribs) 03:09, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Discriminatory Behavior in Pictures Section

message: Vandals have been persistently trying to remove pictures of Pakistani Punjabis and replace it with only Indian Punjabis. In some instances, adding pictures of individuals that are not even ethnic Punjabi. I am fully willing to engage in an open discussion on this issue here, on the talkPage. There should be an even representation of Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Punjabis, and that is not the case. Wikipedia has temporarily protected the page to prevent edit warring. I will continue to undo changes made by vandals in the future. Vdr11 (talk) 19:57, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Vdr11, note that if you revert non-vandalism edits as vandalism, you will end up blocked from editing. --NeilN talk to me 20:15, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

text: NeilN, I have never reverted non-vandalism edits, I have undone an editor's changes, which reinstated vandalism. There is a difference. You are most welcome to review the history log to confirm this. The editor  reverted changes made by vandal (IP address 122.164.190.132, as I identified in the section above), which I undid several times. It was continuously being vandalized so I requested protection of the page. Right before it was protected,  and :Mlpearc again reverted to changes made by the vandal. The vandal replaced pictures of Mian Muhammad Baksh, a notable and highly regarded Punjabi poet / Sufi Saint with pictures of a journalist who is not an ethnic Punjabi and notably anti-Pakistani and replaced a highly revered British Knighted Poet Sir Muhammad Iqbal with an Indian, another intentional act to suppress Pakistani Punjabis. It is pretty apparent discrimination. So yes, I will continue to undo edits by VANDALS and changes by editors who are reverting back to the said edits by vandals. Vdr11 (talk) 20:33, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture Section Dispute

message: |image7 = Iqbal.jpg | caption7= Sir Muhammad Iqbal
Vdr11 (talk) 17:52, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Mlpearc (open channel) 18:03, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

text: Mlpearc Sure, no problem at all. Tarek Fatah - Straight from the horses mouth: https://twitter.com/TarekFatah/status/459349422086701056 (Bombay is not Punjab. It isn't even close. Neither is Karachi. It also isn't even close). Sir Muhammad Iqbal - "Encyclopaedia of Eminent Thinkers" by Jai Narain Sharma, Page 13 See it here: (https://books.google.ca/books?id=sKMK9WY9OOsC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false). I hope that would suffice? Those are reliable sources. 
My two cents: It is not a coincidence that IP addresses from India and editors keep removing pictures from the right hand-panel of people named "Muhammad", or Pakistanis, or in particular Sir Muhammad Iqbal, who was a philosopher and first proposed a two-state theory.  I find it sad that Wikipedia editors further re-enforced this discriminatory behavior against West-Punjabis, which has been going on since this page was created 9 years ago. We have no problem towards Indians and they are most welcome to contribute constructively to this page. But when they harass Pakistanis, it's pretty frustrating. Especially when they do it cowardly by not being signed-in (so you cannot engage in a healthy discussion). And consequently, I have showed that frustration in my post in the first section on top of this talkPage. And then you have editors that are signed in, who DO NOT respond to requests for a healthy discussion but instead bully you by undoing your improvements. So what was the point of me requesting this page be Protected in the first place? Vdr11 (talk) 18:31, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

text: No opposition to this request.  — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:37, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected edit request on 7 November 2015 

message: In the first paragraph, I have changed the term "Turkic" to "Turko-Persian"; as the later is more accurate historically. While the conquering empires, from Ghaznavids to Mughals had traces of Turkic heredity, the culture was largely Persianate - hence the Persian language word "Punj-ab". Please discuss further here if you feel the need. Vdr11 (talk) 07:30, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turko-Persian vs. Turkic Empires in Northern India 

message: Seemingly there is a significant number of commentators which support the general removal of infobox collages. I think there is a great opportunity to get a general agreement on this matter. It is clear that it has to be a broad consensus, which must involve as many editors as possible, otherwise there is a big risk for this decision to be challenged in the near future. I opened a Request for comment process, hoping that more people will adhere to this proposal. Please comment here. Hahun (talk) 23:37, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Hahun Thank you for discussing this issue. While I do agree that this may lead to reduced conflicts between editors, I also feel that it will contribute to lessening the relatability of Wikipedia pages to readers / general public. While many users are those who prefer just reading an article, I feel many more are visual persons who prefer to see pictures of related personalities, which may then spark their interest further into reading the article and perhaps even contributing to it. Vdr11 (talk) 16:08, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal for the deletion of all the galleries of personalities from the articles about ethnic groups 

message: Readers will want to know what they look like. 2.102.184.184 (talk) 19:48, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: They were removed as per WP:NOETHNICGALLERIES. Although we can still add a single picture that represents the people. Filpro (talk) 01:12, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't there be some pictures of Punjabi people at the top of the article, next to the lead? 

message: I wonder if we should get rid of the "Indo-Aryan" and "Dravidian" labels from all the ethnic group pages. It is not the people that are Indo-Aryan or Dravidian, but rather their language. These labels give some unnecessary heartburn to some people, but they are not meaningful anyway. So, I wonder, why bother? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:50, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. As I suggested above, it's better to state something like "speakers of Punjabi, an Indo-Aryan language" than an "an Indo-Aryan ethnic group". I've made a bold change accordingly. If anyone has problems with it, feel free to undo it. utcursch | talk 20:28, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Excellent. I changed it for Kashmiris, where this issue arose quite some time ago. (It has been at the back of my mind since then). -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:03, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

text:  Yes, this makes sense. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 03:59, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indo-Aryan/Dravidian 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Punjabis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170709233002/http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/2071.0~2016~Main%20Features~Cultural%20Diversity%20Article~20 to http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/2071.0~2016~Main%20Features~Cultural%20Diversity%20Article~20
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131213100306/http://www.stats.govt.nz/~/media/Statistics/Census/2013%20Census/data-tables/totals-by-topic/totals-by-topic-tables.xls to http://www.stats.govt.nz/~/media/Statistics/Census/2013%20Census/data-tables/totals-by-topic/totals-by-topic-tables.xls
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071102060502/http://www.cet.edu/earthinfo/sasia/SAhis.html to http://www.cet.edu/earthinfo/sasia/SAhis.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060217220529/http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/statistics/other_tables/pop_by_mother_tongue.pdf to http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/statistics/other_tables/pop_by_mother_tongue.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060217220529/http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/statistics/other_tables/pop_by_mother_tongue.pdf to http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/statistics/other_tables/pop_by_mother_tongue.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060219054854/http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2003_v72_p313-332.pdf to http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2003_v72_p313-332.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20030827045441/http://allaboutsikhs.com/books/gst/ to http://allaboutsikhs.com/books/gst/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:52, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: I've noticed that there have been changes in which people are changing anything in reference to anything which is distinctive, possibly to make India seem homogeneous. Punjabis being Indo-Aryan speakers was removed for a while and replaced with simply "Indian" which isn't even an ethnic group and them being from the north was removed twice for no exact reason other than it being supposedly an "unnecessary term", even when Punjab is undoubtedly a northern area of the subcontinent. Should this page be protected?
Foxhound03 (talk) 11:20, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible vandalism taking place 

message: The mods should close the discussions that are no longer active as they’re just crowding this talk page MT111222 (talk) 20:40, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  close the discussions that are no longer active 

message: Hi, it is regarding these edits. Is CIA Factbook a reliable site? It estimates a total population of " 1,389,637,446 (2022 est.)" for India ([link], used in support of the changes). It seems Indian census 2021/2022 reports are still not out [link]. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:09, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we should stick to official census data, except when it is questioned. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:29, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Census data is more reliable than CIA data, which is not easily verifiable. Even better than census data are secondary academic quality sources which are based on census data; if such sources are available. –Austronesier (talk) 16:55, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Courtesy ping , forgot. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  RV to census data is fine by me in the infobox... Only put in the CIA Factbook numbers as they are referenced by other ethnic group wiki pages. Agree the numbers should be left out of the infobox but still think they should be kept and referenced in the India/Pakistan sections further down the article as long as they are explicitly stated they are estimates. Van00220 (talk) 07:37, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

text: I believe so. CIA are estimates, not census data. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:48, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

text: Waiting for Uanfala and Van00220's comments. Since we are in agreement, you, me or anyone of us can change it back per census sources after a day or two if they do not respond. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:39, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  I’ve changed it to census figures and retained the estimates as notes, hope that works. UnpetitproleX (talk) 11:09, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

text: Thanks. I forgot about this . Courtesy ping . - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:13, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  May 2022 

message: Can someone add a map of where Punjabis live as the pic of the main page?
Like how it has been done for the Bengalis wiki page.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengalis MT111222 (talk) 13:32, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Punjabis's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "EoS":
From Punjab Province (British India): 
From Punjab: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 02:28, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Punjabis]] 

message: The Rihla ibn batuta mentions the name of the region as Punjab when he visited the area in 1333 as well as wrote that the local people call the river indus as Punjab because it is formed by five rivers. Tabqat e nasri written in 1266 mentions the area as well as the river indus as Punjab. Mahabharata mentions the region as Panchanada circa 500 BC of which Punjab is a Muslim version. OmerAli1qaz (talk) 15:45, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The term Punjab became the regions identity centuries before Akbar's era and it should be corrected 

message: The short description of this article states "Ethnolinguistic group native to the Punjab region of the Indian Subcontinent", while some frontier regions of the Punjab are geographically not considered as a part of the geographical subcontinent. Hence, I suggest the rewriting of the Short description to "Ethnolinguistic group native to the Punjab" to match the Punjabi language article or "Ethnolinguistic group native to the Punjab region of South Asia". Thanks! AuthorizedEditor101 (talk) 14:10, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I shortened it to "Ethnolinguistic group native to Punjab", it was too long anyway. Kornatice (talk) 14:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Short description 

message: The short description of this article states "Ethnolinguistic group native to Punjab", but it should rather be stated as "Ethnolinguistic group native to the Punjab". the word "the" is important while talking about the Punjab as, Punjab literally means "Five Waters". So, the usage of "the" in context to the Punjab has quite alot of significance. PeoplesRepublicOfChina01 (talk) 13:23, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor edit to the Short description