Talk:Jonathan Agnew

message: Apparently, Agnew has referred BBC listeners to Wikipedia's article on the doosra in commentary on the test between England and Sri Lanka.
Capitalistroadster 13:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference to Doosra

message: Agnew is reading this page now on the radio so its coming under quite a lot of vandalism :D
:Gordon Bennett, look at all the stupid edits in the last ten minutes! -- Hindleyite (talk) 14:12, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The page has been semi-protected, can we please have no more of this infantile silliness. I'm disappointed with the listeners of TMS, I expected better. Nev1 (talk) 14:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism due to subject reading the article On-Air

message: If we add replace  with , can we get rid of the 'career bests' section as that will be duplicating information? Nev1 (talk) 15:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvements

message: I have proof-read this article and would like to change this heading to the more correct form "The leg-over incident", i.e. with a hyphen, but I am unsure whether this would damage any links. Could someone help me, please? Old Father Time (talk) 22:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you change the section title, everything should be fine (the table of contents will sort itself out). Nev1 (talk) 22:32, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, Nev1. I have now made the change. Old Father Time (talk) 13:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: The Legover incident

message: His grandmother, Lady Mona Agnew, turned 110 years old on December 29, 2009. Should she be mentioned in the article? --Nick Ornstein (talk) 21:24, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There isn't a section on Agnew's family, or indeed on his personal life at all. If one were to be created, I think it should be more substantial than simply mentioning his paternal grandmother's longevity. Furthermore, care would need to be taken in presenting material about her age, because ages change. Old Father Time (talk) 22:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Just add the age in years and days template, Lady Agnew's age will change automatically. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 14:11, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

text: OK, got one. And it's not so aristcratic as I thought. I forgot that the wife of a knight is "Lady"... I was thinking her husband was "Lord", not "Sir". Ho hum. --Dweller (talk) 11:18, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Family

message: The page we link to has been deleted for being unsourced. It'd be a lot better to get it back up again, properly, than to remove the nice interwiki link. --Dweller (talk) 12:26, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikiquote 

message: I'm not sure this is very encyclopedic - seems more like what a cricket website would include. The significant ones will be included in the narrative and the less significant... are less significant. Views? --Dweller (talk) 11:15, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The first-class teams are covered by the infobox, and the rest don't seem terribly important. I say get rid of the section. Nev1 (talk) 14:14, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I've gone ahead and removed it myself. Nev1 (talk) 14:43, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, as long as the significant ones are included in the prose. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:46, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

text: No, sorry that was careless. I've restored the bibliography. Nev1 (talk) 10:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I wondered! Thanks for your opinion here and the various, helpful, edits. The fingers/hand thing was a bit embarrassing... glad you <ahem> picked that up. --Dweller (talk) 11:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teams section 

message: It's nice to know who someone came in for to make their Test debut, but I can't find RS who mentions it - I had to work it out by comparing the XIs for the fourth and fifth Tests, which wasn't so difficut and as OR goes is hardly private detective stuff. Would it be WP:SYNTH to cite the comment by linking to each of the scorecards? It'd be a shame to cut it, especially as it's not a very big "claim". --Dweller (talk) 12:15, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referencing Cowans and Terry 

message: ()
Look for stuff about his grandmother (see above), his childhood and his interview with Mandela (he thinks it was disastrous) and covering royal weddings. --Dweller (talk) 14:08, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: *Finish his playing career section
*Complete the commentating section
*Get some early life material
*Add a modicum of information about odious ODIs
*Review lead, remove all citations from it
*Check everything is cited
*Ensure all issues on this talk page are dealt with
*All images captioned and hidden captioned for visually impaired
*MOS check
*Third party copyedit by editor not familiar with cricket
Please do add to the above. --Dweller (talk) 09:09, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:FAC]] to-do list 

message: This photo seems to be appropriately licensed for Wikipedia. How do we go about getting it into the article? I'm hopeless at image licensing. --Dweller (talk) 09:20, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This tool is easy to use and shows you whether an image is compatible with use on commons and Wikipedia. All you do is take the number from the url and paste it in the box. As this image isn't available for commercial reuse we can't use it unfortunately. Nev1 (talk) 09:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flickr photo 

message: The article has a Wikiquote link in the bottom right hand corner, but it seems the page was deleted, for being unsourced. I wonder if someone could get it undeleted - should be reasonably easy to source at the very least the notable leg over comment. --Dweller (talk) 09:34, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikiquote 

message: As they're clearly recognition for his journalism, I'd like to move them to that section, where they'll go nicely with the Sony awards. Opinions? --Dweller (talk) 21:35, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a good idea to me. Nev1 (talk) 21:41, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doctorates 

message: *Aggers and controversy: Can't use - doesn't mention controversy --Dweller (talk) 15:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agnew sources to add relevant to Sarastro comments at FAC 

message: ===From Wisden 1988:===
Mentions the team's mixed performances in the season and notes that there were many off-field problems. 
[Reaching the top three in the Championship and the Natwest semis]: "Both of these achievements were peppered with some fine individual performances, the most notable of which were the bowling of Jonathan Agnew and the batting of Nigel Briers. Agnew, bowling off a shorter run and with a wicked slower ball added to his armoury, became the first Leicestershire player since J Birkenshaw in 1968 to take 100 first-class wickets in a season...:"  (p. 474.)
"But it was the county's England all-rounder, Phillip DeFreitas, who posed the greatest problem, following his emergence as a player of daunting potential on England's successful tour of Australia the previous winter. Indeed, it may have been his disappointment at failing to live up to the exacting standards set on that tour which led to the many rumours concerning his involvement in dressing-room rifts and conflict with the new captain, Peter Willey. However, the rumours would have remained no more than that but for a notorious incident in which DeFreitas poured a pot of salt over Agnew's lunch on the final day of the Championship match against Sussex in late June. Agnew responded by throwing DeFreitas's kit over the dressing room balcony, and the all-rounder left the ground for two hours before returning and, in dramatic fashion, helping Leicestershire to their first Championship victory." (pp. 474–75.)
From: 
Thanks, Sarastro, I've used these. --Dweller (talk) 17:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some sources 

message: Mentions the team's mixed performances in the season and notes that there were many off-field problems. 
[Reaching the top three in the Championship and the Natwest semis]: "Both of these achievements were peppered with some fine individual performances, the most notable of which were the bowling of Jonathan Agnew and the batting of Nigel Briers. Agnew, bowling off a shorter run and with a wicked slower ball added to his armoury, became the first Leicestershire player since J Birkenshaw in 1968 to take 100 first-class wickets in a season...:"  (p. 474.)
"But it was the county's England all-rounder, Phillip DeFreitas, who posed the greatest problem, following his emergence as a player of daunting potential on England's successful tour of Australia the previous winter. Indeed, it may have been his disappointment at failing to live up to the exacting standards set on that tour which led to the many rumours concerning his involvement in dressing-room rifts and conflict with the new captain, Peter Willey. However, the rumours would have remained no more than that but for a notorious incident in which DeFreitas poured a pot of salt over Agnew's lunch on the final day of the Championship match against Sussex in late June. Agnew responded by throwing DeFreitas's kit over the dressing room balcony, and the all-rounder left the ground for two hours before returning and, in dramatic fashion, helping Leicestershire to their first Championship victory." (pp. 474–75.)
From: 
Thanks, Sarastro, I've used these. --Dweller (talk) 17:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: From ''Wisden'' 1988:

message: "Atherton's announcement [that he would stay on as captain] prompted yet another press conference—this time at Old Trafford on Friday morning—where, so he hoped, he would lay the matter to rest. Easier said than done, because of the two extreme views held by the so-called cognoscenti. The issue divided the cricket world. BBC Radio cricket correspondent Jonathan Agnew though Atherton should go, and had been outspoken in stating his views.
He and I were co-commentators for the BBC's television coverage of Durham's home AXA Equity & Law game at Durham University two days later, and he was clearly agitated about the furore he had created.
My view was simple. He had been appointed by the BBC to report and comment. He had played Test cricket and was closer to the county cricket circuit than any of his predecessors. Perhaps that was why he was more sensitive to criticism than previous correspondents who had not played first-class cricket. I told him that if he held strong views about an issue, then it would not be honest [page break]
to remain silent and paddle a diplomatic canoe through safe waters. What I still believe was that he clouded the issue by referring to his friendship with Atherton. That had nothing to do with the principle of a cricket correspondent commenting on an England captain. It was wrong of his to personalise the matter as one between Agnew and Atherton."
From: 
 Thank you --Dweller (talk) 16:43, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: From Bannister [this section was written by Bannister] on the dirt-in-pocket affair of 1994:

message: I am posting these here, rather than cluttering the already bloated FAC page. There is still a way to go.
===County cricketer===
*Give date of debut
**Have done. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Brian, much appreciated, hopefully Dweller and I will be able to attend to this in the next couple of days, i.e. I'll do the easy technical ones, and he'll think about the tougher ones...! The Rambling Man (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Thanks Brian, very helpful indeed.  We'll see what we can do to address these to your satisfaction.  The Rambling Man (talk) 16:24, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Brian, they're excellent, thank you. Hope to complete responses asap. --Dweller (talk)
===Done?===
Brian, I think we've addressed all of your comments here. If I've missed any, please point them out! --Dweller (talk) 11:51, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

text: I haven't time to check out everything in detail, but it looks as though my concerns have all been addressed.  Although I retain the reservation as noted above (legover), you clearly wish to hold your ground on this. I will read the article through one more time, but seasonal diversions are severely limiting my wikitime at present, so it may not be before tomorrow. Brianboulton (talk) 08:56, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, and tomorrow is fine. I'm not pigheaded about legover - I think I'll post to WT:CRIC and see what other members of the WikiProject think. I've always edited with consensus and if they disagree with me, I'll move it out of the lead. --Dweller (talk) 11:18, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional prose comments

message: *Give date of debut
**Have done. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: County cricketer

message: *Although I am against the overdetailing that hampers many cricket articles, I feel that the following is a little too terse a dismissal of six seasons' cicket: "Agnew's career did not initially live up to his early promise. In his first six seasons as a first-class cricketer, his biggest haul of wickets was 31 in 1980, hampered by a mixture of injuries, poor form and omission from the Leicestershire side". There is also a grammatical problem, with the "hampered by" clause misplaced;  as written it appears to refer to 1980 rather than to the whole  period. However, I would prefer to see some expansion of the content.
** I'll see what I can magic up, but hopefully the D-man can help too.  The Rambling Man (talk) 17:39, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Test cricketer

message: *"...he followed his 1987 feat of taking the second-most wickets in the County Championship[53] by finishing third in the table for 1988". What table did he finish third in?
**Rephrased. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:45, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Brian, much appreciated, hopefully Dweller and I will be able to attend to this in the next couple of days, i.e. I'll do the easy technical ones, and he'll think about the tougher ones...! The Rambling Man (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Later playing career and retirement

message: *Is this heading appropriate? "Legacy" implies something left for the benefit of future generations. This reads more like a career appraisal
** I'm not too sure if this is a major issue, but Dweller may be able to use his imagination here.  The Rambling Man (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Legacy

message: *"After retiring at a relatively young age of 30..." Perhaps: "After ending his playing career at the relatively young age of 30..."
**Agreed, reworded. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:34, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Media and broadcasting

message: *What were the reasons for the Zimbabwe government's media ban, and how did these relate specifically to Agnew?
**It's in the Indie ref given, Mugabe blocked several news outlets, and one was the BBC, hence Agnew.  The quote is covered in that reference (i.e. "they've blocked Aggers").  The Rambling Man (talk) 16:44, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversies

message: As I have said before, I think this incident is given a weight and importance beyond what it deserves. I'm not convinced by the Radio 5 survey result, which came from a self-selected sample of who knows how many listeners - a few thousand? tens of thousands? – and the significance you draw from that result is I believe unwarranted. It wasn't even a piece of commentary, it was an interjection during a summary, a factor conveniently ignored. I don't think the incident should have its own subsection but should appear, in abbreviated form, in the "controversies" section. And as I have already said, I don't think it is leadworthy. Also, do we need the addition of two further innuendo episodes involving Agnew? This emphasis on schoolboy humour intends rather to trivialise his career.
* It's clear this is a big issue, and Dweller and I have been discussing it.  Hopefully we can come to a compromise, it'll just need a bit more work.  The Rambling Man (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Leg over" incident

message: *Inelegant title: what about "Private lifa and personality"?
**I guess you mean "Private life and personality".  Not sure how much more elegant that is from "Personal", but whatever floats your boat...! The Rambling Man (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Personal life and personality

message: Brian, I think we've addressed all of your comments here. If I've missed any, please point them out! --Dweller (talk) 11:51, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't time to check out everything in detail, but it looks as though my concerns have all been addressed.  Although I retain the reservation as noted above (legover), you clearly wish to hold your ground on this. I will read the article through one more time, but seasonal diversions are severely limiting my wikitime at present, so it may not be before tomorrow. Brianboulton (talk) 08:56, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, and tomorrow is fine. I'm not pigheaded about legover - I think I'll post to WT:CRIC and see what other members of the WikiProject think. I've always edited with consensus and if they disagree with me, I'll move it out of the lead. --Dweller (talk) 11:18, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Done?

message: I think all of Axl's comments have been responded to. If I've missed one, please let me know. --Dweller (talk) 11:47, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: All done?

message: Further to a discussion at the talk page for the FAC nomination for this article.
At the moment the article says Agnew first duty for TMS and the BBC was to cover the 1990-1 Ashes tour in Australia. This is incorrect. Agnew covered that tour for the Today newspaper and joined TMS and the BBC in the 1991 English season that followed.
References - In Agnew's book "Thanks Johnners", page 59, he says "I made my decision to leave Leicestershire and join Today. I did not feel any hostility directed at me when I set off for England's 1990-91 tour of Australia with my new colleagues from the national press..." Later in the paragraph he refers to Christopher Martin-Jenkins's decision to leave his job as BBC cricket correspondent and says "This made little or no impact at the time because I did not know Chris very well and besides I was entirely focussed on my new career at Today." Over the next two pages he describes covering the tour for Today. On page 61 he describes TMS producer Peter Baxter approaching him about the TMS job during the tour, his dissatisfaction with an editorial decision at Today, and going for the job interview after the tour. After some digressions on page 64 a new section begins "Six months after bowling my last ball for Leicestershire, I became the fourth BBC cricket correspondent." The next page and a bit describes his general duties and on page 66 he says "The day before the first test and my debut on Test Match Special at Leeds..."
I think this establishes that he did the Ashes tour for Today and joined the BBC after that.
But to add to that, Peter Baxter's book "Inside the Box" is consistent with all this - on page 73 he describes approaching Agnew while in Australia and Agnew's run-in with the Today editors. On page 74 he reports on Agnew's first days as correspondent and his initial shyness while broadcasting and his first series, the 1991 one against the West Indies.
And Baxter's earlier book "Test Match Special: Fifty Not Out" has a section on Agnew and lists his first TMS test as being in 1991 (page 83). Later in the book, page 155, Agnew writes under the heading "my first test match" and the article is about the first West Indies test of 1991 and is dated as 6 June 1991.
I realise this is a hell of a lot of detail but as the fact was disputed, I wanted to provide plenty of info. Dean B (talk) 07:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally convinced. Thank you, very helpful. --Dweller (talk) 09:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And amended now. --Dweller (talk) 16:00, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates for when Agnew joined TMS and the BBC 

message: Is this a reliable source?  Interesting comments on various stages of his life and career.  For example, that his family farm was mainly poultry, and he spent a lot of his time away from school plucking. Oh, and the comments about the relationship between fathers and children after divorce.
Looking back at the article, I can't help thinking that we have too many quotes: for example, the first paragraph of "Background and early years" is:
: Agnew was born on 4 April 1960 at West Park Hospital in Macclesfield, Cheshire, to Philip and Margaret Agnew.[4][5] His parents' forthcoming marriage was announced in The Times in 1957: Philip Agnew was described as "the only son of Mr and Mrs Norris M. Agnew of Dukenfield Hall, Mobberley, Cheshire" and Margaret as "youngest daughter of Mr and Mrs A.F.V. McConnell of Hampton Hall, Worthen, Shropshire".[6] The Agnews had a second son in June 1962 and were recorded as living at "Bainton near Stamford, Lincs"; in April 1966, a daughter, Felicity, was born and was announced as "a sister for Jonathan and Christopher".[7][8] Agnew's paternal grandmother, Lady Mona Agnew, died aged 110 years and 170 days in 2010 and is on the list of the 100 longest-lived British people ever.[9]
Do we need to have the direct quotes, getting on for a third of the paragraph?  It is not as if the information made any more interesting when quoted.  Wouldn't the text flow better along the following lines:
: Agnew was born on 4 April 1960 at West Park Hospital in Macclesfield, Cheshire.[4][5] His father Philip Agnew was the only son of Mr and Mrs Norris M. Agnew of Dukenfield Hall, Mobberley, Cheshire, and his mother Margaret was the youngest daughter of Mr and Mrs A.F.V. McConnell of Hampton Hall, Worthen, Shropshire; their forthcoming marriage was announced in The Times in 1957.[6] The Agnews had a second son Christopher in June 1962, when they were living at Bainton, near Stamford, Lincolnshire; and a daughter Felicity was born in April 1966.[7][8] Agnew's paternal grandmother, Lady Mona Agnew, died aged 110 years and 170 days in 2010 and is on the list of the 100 longest-lived British people ever.[9]
Comments? -- Ferma (talk) 19:15, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Desert Island Discs

message: About Agnew's role in the 84 Test vs SL and not getting picked for the India tour:  --Dweller (talk) 09:55, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Some nice personal stuff here () --Dweller (talk) 14:41, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source material 

message: Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Jonathan Agnew --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:55, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  TFAR 

message: The infobox has a photo of Agnew with the caption "Agnew at the Adelaide Oval". There are no distinguishing features of the Adelaide Oval in the photo so the location is not really of any relevance. It would be more helpful to say which year the photo was taken. Axl ¤ [Talk] 08:36, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Be our guest. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:39, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Gerda Arendt has added the year. Thank you, Gerda! Axl ¤ [Talk] 08:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox photo 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161119210444/http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8501.html?class=2%3Btemplate%3Dresults%3Btype%3Dallround%3Bview%3Dmatch to http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8501.html?class=2%3Btemplate%3Dresults%3Btype%3Dallround%3Bview%3Dmatch
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091211114407/http://static.ecb.co.uk/files/hitting-the-seam-issue-3-page-3-269.pdf to http://static.ecb.co.uk/files/hitting-the-seam-issue-3-page-3-269.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:05, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source material 

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I have just modified one external link on Jonathan Agnew. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120324202629/http://stats.thecricketer.com/Events/England_B_in_Sri_Lanka_1985-86/f_England_B_Bowling.html to http://stats.thecricketer.com/Events/England_B_in_Sri_Lanka_1985-86/f_England_B_Bowling.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:49, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source material 

message: I was just glancing over the article and wondering if we need to update this a little to reflect some of Mr Agnew's more recent controversies, especially of the Twitter variety, and I noticed that  has noted some sources above. I think we certainly need to add a line or two. Possibly about his wife's illness too? Sarastro (talk) 21:37, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updates required?