Talk:Ohlone/Archive 3

message: I added another paragraph in the usual style I use. About one sentence for each major section. I think you can fix it up. After that, I think next week once all the cleanup work is done. We should have a good-enough article to get rid of the "underconstruction". 
Then if there is not anything major, we could ask for a WP:Peer Review. If so, then perhaps do all the work in the sandbox, then move once we all agree. I say this because some of the things I think Bruce and at least I want to add (like use of aquafood) should be more indepth. 
--meatclerk 07:12, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Intro #2 

message: *we need to either define ethnoist on wiktionary, if it is a word, or else replace with a better word.
*I've been talking to the new contributor's about the new narrative section and plan a little work tonight ... I got super excited and put it all on the Ohlone mythology page... I will bring back her work for the general page tonight (new stuff, new sources).  Goldenrowley 16:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, if you are on tonight, I plan to work till 1am. Please message back. Also I know a web chat room we could use. --meatclerk 06:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: News 10/23/06 

message: ===Divisions===
Ohlone Divisions from North to South           	Ohlone Divisions from North to South                                                                                      	Ohlone Divisions from North to South
Division                                       	Location and Details                                                                                                      	
Karkin(also called Carquin)                    	Resided on the south side of the Carquinez Strait.                                                                        	
Chocheño (also called Chochenyo, Chocenyo)     	Resided in the East Bay, primarily in the western portion of what is now Alameda County.                                  	
Ramaytush (also called San Francisco)     	Resided between San Francisco Bay and the Pacific in the area which is now San Francisco and San Mateo County.            	
Tamyen (also called Tamien, Santa Clara)  	Resided  on Coyote and Calaveras Creek.                                                                                   	
Awaswas (also called Santa Cruz)          	Resided  lived on the Santa Cruz coast between Pescadero and the Pajaro Rivers.                                           	
Mutsun(also called San Juan Bautista)	Resided lived along San Benito River and San Felipe Creek                                                                 	
Rumsen(also called Rumsien)                    	Resided from the Pajaro River to Point Sur, and the lower courses of the Pajaro, as well as the Salinas and Carmel Rivers.	
Chalon(also called Soledad)                    	Resided on the middle course of the Salinas River.                                                                        	
There were eight major regional, linguistic divisions or subgroups of the OhloneCartier, 1991. Note that "Language group designations are spelled as commonly found in English language publications... however many tribal, village and personal names which are not commonly found in literature present a problem. They were written by Spanish settlers who were trying to capture the sounds of languages foreign to them." Milliken, 1995, page Xiv. 
==== Villages and Tribes ====
Within the eight regions listed above, there were over 50 tribes and villages who spoke the Ohlone-Costanoan languages, before being absorbed into the Spanish Missions circa 1795.
:I like the right side table you suggest, unfortunately trying it on the page, it bumps into population tables and the text does not "tuck" around it so neatly (it leaves a large white gap) -- after thought, my point of view is that these divisions are not the main article, while present-day tribal 20th century divisions had only a passing mention. So to keep both past and present day division lists on the same scale seemed better. Goldenrowley 04:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Example trimming of Division 

message: Ohlone Divisions from North to South           	Ohlone Divisions from North to South                                                                                      	Ohlone Divisions from North to South
Division                                       	Location and Details                                                                                                      	
Karkin(also called Carquin)                    	Resided on the south side of the Carquinez Strait.                                                                        	
Chocheño (also called Chochenyo, Chocenyo)     	Resided in the East Bay, primarily in the western portion of what is now Alameda County.                                  	
Ramaytush (also called San Francisco)     	Resided between San Francisco Bay and the Pacific in the area which is now San Francisco and San Mateo County.            	
Tamyen (also called Tamien, Santa Clara)  	Resided  on Coyote and Calaveras Creek.                                                                                   	
Awaswas (also called Santa Cruz)          	Resided  lived on the Santa Cruz coast between Pescadero and the Pajaro Rivers.                                           	
Mutsun(also called San Juan Bautista)	Resided lived along San Benito River and San Felipe Creek                                                                 	
Rumsen(also called Rumsien)                    	Resided from the Pajaro River to Point Sur, and the lower courses of the Pajaro, as well as the Salinas and Carmel Rivers.	
Chalon(also called Soledad)                    	Resided on the middle course of the Salinas River.                                                                        	
There were eight major regional, linguistic divisions or subgroups of the OhloneCartier, 1991. Note that "Language group designations are spelled as commonly found in English language publications... however many tribal, village and personal names which are not commonly found in literature present a problem. They were written by Spanish settlers who were trying to capture the sounds of languages foreign to them." Milliken, 1995, page Xiv. 
==== Villages and Tribes ====
Within the eight regions listed above, there were over 50 tribes and villages who spoke the Ohlone-Costanoan languages, before being absorbed into the Spanish Missions circa 1795.
:I like the right side table you suggest, unfortunately trying it on the page, it bumps into population tables and the text does not "tuck" around it so neatly (it leaves a large white gap) -- after thought, my point of view is that these divisions are not the main article, while present-day tribal 20th century divisions had only a passing mention. So to keep both past and present day division lists on the same scale seemed better. Goldenrowley 04:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Divisions

message: Within the eight regions listed above, there were over 50 tribes and villages who spoke the Ohlone-Costanoan languages, before being absorbed into the Spanish Missions circa 1795.
:I like the right side table you suggest, unfortunately trying it on the page, it bumps into population tables and the text does not "tuck" around it so neatly (it leaves a large white gap) -- after thought, my point of view is that these divisions are not the main article, while present-day tribal 20th century divisions had only a passing mention. So to keep both past and present day division lists on the same scale seemed better. Goldenrowley 04:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Villages and Tribes 

message: I've completed the article on Mr. Taylor from CHSQ articles. Your comments and suggestions welcome. --meatclerk 06:40, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Alexander Smith Taylor]] 

message: A few points:
In scholarly writing, it doesn't seem appropriate to cite a modern newspaper article as a "source." That's particularly true when there much better, more authentic accounts are available.
Moving the traditional narrative source listing away from the discussion of the narratives largely eliminates the value of that listing, which was make the readers aware of the published sources where they can read the narratives for themselves.
The link to Theodora Kroeber's Almost Ancestors just goes to the same newspaper article.
RhymeNotStutter 23:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, as soon as I find the full title  and original source of that creation myth from "Theodore Kroeber" whom I suspect is Albert (doing interviews), I also agree to change from newspaper article to the original source. Wikiedpa Policy makes us put all external "great links" and "references" below the article, not in the middle of the articles, although we left the Rumsien myth (folkloric) links  where you had suggested. Goldenrowley 00:40, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok was my mistake trusting that news article. I'll keep researching for the original source thanks for the help. Goldenrowley 02:33, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I do understand why you took out something until verified, thank you for the help. Goldenrowley 18:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Theodore Koeber's book is not in my library chain when I checked. If anyone has the original PRIMARY source for the Coastanoan earthmaker myth, I would appreciate it.  Goldenrowley 06:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Suggestion on organization: Going by the Wikpedia formatting rules, I think most of the traditional narrative sources are more like a 'further reading' section... a "further reading" section might be a smooth way to recommend them above sources, without putting them in the middle of the article. Goldenrowley 00:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Traditional Narratives

message: main page --meatclerk 05:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  KQED 'American Indian Heritage Month' 

message: On the intro, I see my suggestions as being counter-productive. We can always fix it later. Right now there are many more things that need to be done. I plan on continuing programming until I can move my notes online. I don't see me being much help talking about it; I see my self helping more by getting the book research done, via whatever notes need to be made. Anyway more later. --meatclerk 06:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dropping Intro discussion for now