Talk:Greensleeves

message: This is amusing, but I'm putting it here. Is this spin really relevant?:
;Greensleeves is said by some to refer to the pleasures of alfresco sex and the stains on the sleeves of men who have enjoyed female company whilst thrutching on the grass. cf the female equivalent - Green Mantle. Green the colour of the harlot in medaeival England supposedly worn so as to hide the grass stains. Green also  a 'faerie' colour in the likes of the ballad of Tam Lin more here; Thomas Rymer; and pagan Brighid of the Green Mantle.
Many original verses of "Greensleeves" are posted on the Web. Anyone find anything in them to tie to this interpretation? For more a propos avenues to follow try the new External link at the entry. Or a note on separate sleeves worn in the 16th century with a bodice... __Wetman 09:48, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spin 

message: Anyone know any mp3 links for this song?Dermo69
::If you have an eMail address, I can send you a version by Lorena McKennitt or a live version by Neil Young, I think I also have the instrumental version sans lyrics by TSO. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 22:48, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: MP3

message: Greensleeves was also, I think, the soundtrack of the half-hour TV serial film "Lassie", the famous collie dog, in the latest ' 50 and earliest ' 60.
Thanks.
A. Lahore
:What do you mean by the soundtrack?  Do you mean it was on the soundtrack, or that it was the theme song?  I don't know about a soundtrack, but it is not the theme song.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.1.193.190 (talk) 16:37, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  more about GREENSLEEVES 

message: Surely someone has some *real* idea about what this word is referring too?  In any case, this entry without such a definition would appear to be rather incomplete.
For instance (and I have no references for this at all), I have heard the theory that the song refers to a gentleman's poor country mistress who works on her farm feeding the cows, etc, hence her green sleeves (from the grass she gathers for the animals).  Surely wrong, but why can't we know what is correct? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.147.151.165 (talk) 23:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: More experience with folklore might cure you of that certainty.  I'm afraid that there are many, many, many things in folksongs that remain baffling.  Goldfritha 00:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greensleeves: We need a definition for this term. 

message: Why did Bill Graham decide to play Greensleeves after every concert at the Fillmore? And furthermore, why did Neil Young do the same, and what connection, if any, is known? 71.132.202.29 (talk) 04:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: The Fillmore and Neil Young

message: Hi there. I wonder why this song is used in the public examinations in Hong Kong (or in other places as well?) during listening tests. Is there a special reason for that? Perhaps we can write a bit about it in the article. LR4087 06:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exam Music 

message: "The Singing Waites of England"... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.150.122.122 (talk) 01:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who wrote Greensleeves? 

message: On episode nine of the Showtime cable series, King Henry (Jonathan Rhys-Meyers) is shown composing Greensleeves while pining away for Anne Boleyn.  Interesting take on the fabled but unproven folklore...
Dwacon 01:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ShowTime Series &#147;The Tudors&#148; 

message: Some years ago I read there was a verse which was said to have been written by Robbie Burns 
I recall it as being 
"I'll be with her or she be thine
My fiddle and I t'gither"
but I haven't found anything recently.
How come there is no link (or copy) of verses? DDB 13:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robbie Burns Lyrics Question 

message: Is this section really necessary?  It comes off as trivia - personally I think the page would be better without it.David T Tokyo 12:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of it could be deleted. Songs like "What Child Is This?" are a lot more notable than an arrangement for one film, in this case Carry On Henry. Graham87 13:49, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I have no objections to removing it. --Eyrian 14:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Graham, Eyrian - that's three of us broadly in favour and no-one seemingly against.  I'll wait a few more days to see if there are any other views.  If not, I'll remove the section. David T Tokyo 03:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I see thay someone has now indeed removed the whole section - impetuously ditching the baby with the bath-water. eg I think that the fact that Busoni thought it Chinese enough to include in his Turandot should go in somewhere Bob aka Linuxlad (talk) 13:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  In the end I didn't remove the other versions / adaptations - to be honest people seemed to be having too much fun putting them on the page.  That said, when someone eventually took the step and deleted the entire section I do feel the page was a whole lot better.  As for putting Busoni back in there, surely it's only a matter of time before Vaughan Williams joins him. I think you've reopened the back door for other versions to creep their way back in - let's see.  David T Tokyo (talk) 16:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

text: And why not? The re-uses which are going to stand the test of time and/or are unusual should be in there - there is (IIRC) a WP policy on excessive quoting of refs in 'pop culture' because these tend to be a bit ephemeral and can easily overwhelm the main article. Linuxlad (talk) 11:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subsequent versions 

message: Got the suggestion to insert this image - so the play-button and the notes can build a unit. But I not really want to make changes in the article.  Might someone who knows more about Greensleeves and music do that.  --80.128.197.114 (talk) 17:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  GIF-File with Notes used in the German article 

message: The article states that Greensleeves is in Dorian, and often incorrectly played as natural minor. While this point is understandable - it's easy to mistakenly use a minor sixth in place of the major sixth, and that would be the mistake suggested here, the major seventh in the piece is VERY apparent and establishes the melody as melodic minor (raised sixth and seventh ascendant as compared to natural minor) rather than Dorian (raised sixth and minor seventh). I'm frankly too lazy to find a source for a simple exercise of very basic theory, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.31.146.146 (talk) 03:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I would agree with Brumel and the earlier version that states the melody is in the Dorian mode. I find the notated version perhaps not completely trustworthy. I'm going to edit "melodic minor" back to "Dorian mode" for the time being. Can anyone find sources to clarify which version of the melody is the original? Shadowcrow (talk) 19:58, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

text: After attempting to play the melody and several variations in one mode, it is clear that the melody won't work unless it has both a major and minor 7th. It has to be in either melodic minor or mixed mode(Aolian/Ionian). Operating in mixed mode still allows several variations on the melody however, so it would be nice if we could include some of the first publications of the tune in the article as examples. I'm not very happy with the example given.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.1.193.190 (talk) 17:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musicology 

message: My internet won't let me listen to the song, so does anyone know a link I could go to in order to listen to it? Allismera (talk) 01:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Greensleeves' Song given in Article 

message: "Greensleeves is in melodic minor, though modern musicians sometimes incorrectly play it in the natural minor scale instead"
Both links got to the same page (via redirects), so this statement essentially means nothing to the reader (like me) who wants to know what the difference is.  I would recommend striking the section and line, unless the links at least go to separate sections of minor scale, or, even better, explain what they are saying here in the article.  
The version I know breaks out of the simple whole letter minor scale anyway, in the last "line" of the melody (It uses a C# and a D#).  Perhaps it would be better to simply transcribe the melody here, since it's, er, out of copyright by now? Huw Powell (talk) 06:26, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't it supposed to be in dorian mode (C# and Dnat), not in minor? -- megA (talk) 21:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musicology 

message: Isn't it misleading to simply say that '"Greensleeves" is in Dorian mode' when there is the whole issue of those natural 7's?  Isn't that worth mentioning even though musicologists understand it's within the bounds of musica ficta of that time period and doesn't contradict Dorian?  There has got to be a simple way to state this without getting overly complex, such as "The melody was originally entirely Dorian mode, sometimes with natural 7ths in some portions.  Some modern versions use the natural minor scale predominantly with some natural 6ths and natural 7ths in parallel portions."  That would seem to clarify, highlighting those "points of contention" while avoiding the "melodic minor" confusion.  Perhaps some musical scores could be presented and bar numbers could be specified.
Interestingly enough, the Dorian audio example never departs to the natural 7 at all, and the natural minor example departs to the natural 6 and 7.  Btonal (talk) 00:58, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: it would be good if someone could find some old manuscripts or printings of the song, as the picture showing the melody does not have any publication info from what I can tell, or even a source. I am performing Britten's arrangement of the song, which uses both a natural and raised 7th. I'm interested in finding how the original melody was written, or at least an old version.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.1.193.167 (talk) 15:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musicology 

message: In the pop culture section, both Pepper Ann and As Told By Ginger are mentioned.  If these tv shows actually include the song, which they very well may, they should at least include the name of the episode and/or context in which the song is played.  There is absolutely no references here. Redland19 (talk) 14:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since they are unsourced and do not indicate any importance, they're gone. Rodhullandemu 00:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

text: It's an old song. Passing references to it are not unusual, and you haven't made a case that this is worthy of note. If reliable sources have mentioned this use, then it may be worthy of inclusion. Until then, sorry, I do not think so. Rodhullandemu 00:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pop Culture References 

message: The article mentions that there are other sets of lyrics, but does not include or link to them, nor does it give the provenance of the existing lyrics (are they thought to be the original or oldest known lyrics, etc.). --Iritscen (talk) 01:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What Alternate Lyrics? 

message: The currently included media file (greensleeves.ogg) lacks the characteristic Dorian sixths and has minor sixths instead. A correct sample, greensleeves.mid, is available at Wikimedia Commons. I suggest to use the latter or, better perhaps, include both so the reader/listener can hear the difference between the original and the "flattened" version. Wielewaal (talk) 00:33, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong media file 

message: Why is Greensleeves considered a holiday song? It has nothing to do with Christmas/Winter/New Year, but yet it almost never appears outside of season. Theories? Antagonist (talk) 00:54, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The tune was used for the song "What Child Is This?"  This really should be mentioned somewhere in the article. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 03:37, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a mention, but tucked away at the end in "See also".  I've restructured the article a little, and moved reference to "What Child Is This?" higher up. Feline Hymnic (talk) 10:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

text: I've never heard it used for ice cream trucks in the US: Turkey in the Straw seems to be standard for that here. That's interesting about Australia, though. CopaceticThought (talk) 10:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  In recent years I've also heard "Chariots of Fire", which is gratifying because when I first heard that theme I thought it sounds like an ice cream truck. —Tamfang (talk) 03:00, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I grew up in England and I can definitely remember ice cream vans playing it back as far as the mid-1970s. Any advance on that...?  Dom Kaos (talk) 22:02, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why a holiday song? 

message: Should it be mentioned that this song is sometimes played by the icecream truck in GTA IV?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.75.114.143 (talk) 23:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  GTA IV 

message: In the German Wikipedia there is sheet music ( http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Greensleeves.gif&filetimestamp=20080925054310 ) embedded in the article, wouldn't that make sense for this version, too? 85.22.22.40 (talk) 16:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sheet music 

message: I suggest adding McCoy Tyner's recording to the list (I would but the article is protected). It was released on his 2008 album Guitars and features Derek Trucks on guitar. JLK27 (talk) 13:38, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Recording 

message: The song is also featured in the German 1998 Computer Game "Anno 1602" (U.S./Canada title "1602 A.D.")
--->  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_1602
This recording which was made especially for the game is often regarded as an excellent version due to the accurate use of a classic harp.
This version can currently be heard in this youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCP8Yl4VWV8&feature=PlayList&p=835D38693A06EFD0&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=7
I think it is really worth mentioning as there are no other games mentioned in the article. May this reference be added?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.189.229.167 (talk) 23:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Computer game appearance (Media) 

message: I've removed the references to Sir Thomas Wyatt from the section on Henry VIII.  As Aliison Weir says the Italian style of composition did not reach England until after his (Henry's) death. As Sir Thomas Wyatt died five years before Henry, he couldn't have introduced it, either.David T Tokyo (talk) 10:22, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sir Thomas Wyatt 

message: Do we really need more than a couple of samples in this article? I can believe those to illustrate differences in modes, but once we start adding versions in different genres, we are in danger of breaching WP:INDISCRIMINATE and allowing others in. Furthermore, copyrighted performances (as opposed to the song itself) will need fair-use rationales, and the more we have, the less easy is it to justify their presence. I think we should leave it as just the two. Comments welcome. Rodhullandemu 17:55, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say the only versions of the song given should show differences in the melody from dates close to it's appearance, as that is important material. Giving examples of jazz versions, etc., would only be good in a list of alternate versions and not as an example.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.1.193.190 (talk) 16:46, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music samples 

message: Greensleevs wasn't in "Dick Turpin"  (1979-  )  What kids'TV series was it in then?
It wasn't Dick Turpin..
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf7_xBtgd-c
82.168.48.122 (talk) 13:00, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  TV series' tune 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: From the 4th to 5th note, it is a rise of a whole-tone interval rather than a semitone interval, as the sheet music--which is correct--indicates, but the first sound file plays the 5th note half-tone lower. It seems now the wrong version is more popular than the correct one which sounds different and better. But still, there are correct versions at Youtube, and the following is an example, even though it is played at a different key. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn4hAdSGYEY
--Roland (talk) 04:13, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  It is a whole-tone interval from the 4th to 5th note 

message: The lede to this article is ridiculously complex, to the point of being obfuscatory.  This might pass in a musicological text, but hardly in an excyclopedia article for general consumption.  I suggest reducing the opening sentence to:
"Greensleeves is a traditional English folk song and tune, probably written sometime in the 16th century."
I would further delete everything in the opening paragraph down to the final sentence:
"The tune is found in several late-16th-century and early-17th-century sources, such as Ballet's MS Lute Book and Het Luitboek van Thysius, as well as various manuscripts preserved in the Seeley Historical Library in the University of Cambridge."
... and move all the business about "romanesca", "passamezzo antico", and    "the Andalusian progression" down to a lower section in the article, perhaps entitled Form or History.
67.206.187.92 (talk) 06:06, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the suggestion! I've reduced the opening paragraph quite a lot and moved the content into the body of the article, where we can go into more detail. I have still left the ground terms and a clause on the "Greensleeves" name in the lead. — Bilorv (he/him) (talk) 09:29, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obscurity 'R' Us? 

message: This article and most talk page comments refer to lyrics, perhaps many versions. Not a single version given in the article. It's written like everyone reading the article already knows words to this song. Personally, I didn't when I started reading, and still don't. Good job wikipedia.
2600:8807:5480:713:C018:59E9:EF6E:715E (talk) 18:41, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Edward White's third version, or at least four lines of it, is given in the article. I notice that the reference to the 19th-century Christmas Carol, "What Child Is This?" links to an article on those particular lyrics which does not, however, disclose them. Under "External links" you will find a link to one example, which runs to 19 stanzas. The real problem, it seems to me, is that the melody pre-dates the words of any of the various broadsheet ballads from the late-16th century. As with so many other examples of the genre, there is no reason to choose any one of them as definitive, and even a representative sampling would take up quite a lot of space. Still, it is worth considering including at least a stanza or two from one or another of these, especially since the earlier texts are long out of copyright. Thanks for the suggestion, but can we do without the sarcasm next time?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:17, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lyrics 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Greenfleeves. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 14#Greenfleeves until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Hog Farm (talk) 16:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Greenfleeves" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Hi, just found this, or the version by The Beverley Sisters, on the list of songs banned by the BBC. Fun, but improbable, if it was for reasons of Tudor morality. Is the reason known? T 84.208.65.62 (talk) 23:51, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  BBC ban?