Talk:Money (That's What I Want)

message: Infoboxes for The Kingsmen and The Flying Lizards versions of the song were requested at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Missing_encyclopedic_articles/List_of_notable_songs/9.
I was just wondering, is "Gimme Some Money", the song by Spinal Tap, a reference to "Money" by The Beatles? I mean, it looks fairly obvious to me, but can anyone confirm this? In that case it should be mentioned both here and on the appriopriate Spinal Tap page. DodgeK 20:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: ::"I Need Some Money," a song John Lee Hooker may have been performing live for some time previous to 1959, has lyrics that are more than coincidentally similar to "Money (That's What I Want)". For example, the first verses are "The best  thing  in life are free/But you can give it to the birds an' bees/ I need some money/ Need some money/ Oh yeah, what I want" versus "The best  things in life are free/But you can keep 'em for the birds and bees/
:::Now give me money, (that's what I want) that's what I want". The music is, however, different.
::The question of which lyrics came first never seems to have been settled in any formal way;  John Lee Hooker  has full composition credits for this song, and it has been independently covered by other artists such as James Blood Ulmer and The Doors.
Flying  Lizards:
Is the word "thing", "things", most correct in the singular, or the plural?
I do note that the singular does not seem to comport with the  preposition  "are".  Nor does it seem to match what I do think that I hear on  Democracy Now!,  Worldlink.
Thank You,
 hopiakuta  Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message.  %7e%7e   Thank You. - 17:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''I Need Some Money'' 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Money (That's What I Want)(Rotation Corrected).jpg

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:JohnLeeHookerThatsMyStory.jpg

message: In this particular musical genre, correct grammar in the lyrics is not absolutely necessary.  In fact, incorrect grammar may be preferable.  "Thing" and "things" are equally appropriate -- the only question is what is actually performed, not what is correct grammar.  Paul (talk) 05:38, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar in lyrics 

message: I added the Trashmen to the list.  The list might be better if it was in chronological order.  Literedball (talk) 08:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  order of bands covering this song 

message: i added hard rock to the genres because the song has a very hard edge to it.  so hard that it sounds like ac/dc (sort of).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MasterOfBucket (talk • contribs) 00:58, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  HARD ROCK. 

message: No mention of the obvious derivation of the Ray Charles classic, popular at the time? o0drogue0o 12:27, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What'd I say 

message: The lede says: ".. for the Tamla label, distributed nationally on Anna Records." While the next section says: "..  licensed the song to the Anna label in 1960, which was distributed nationwide by Chicago-based Chess Records in order to meet demand." These statements may both be true, but appear to contradict. What was the relationship between the three labels?  Martinevans123 (talk) 18:15, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distribution 

message: that reads:
: The song was frequently recorded by British bands of the 1960s.  Besides the Beatles version,  The Searchers included it on their first album, Meet The Searchers, released in 1963.Meet The Searchers, Pye , Monaural NLP 18086 The Searchers,  Meet The Searchers,  Compact Disc,  Castle Classics CLACD 165  1989 Also in 1963  Freddie and the Dreamers released their version on their first album, Freddie and The Dreamers. Freddie and the Dreamers,  The Very Best of Freddie and the Dreamers,  EMI Gold, 509992 16846 2 3,  2008   The Rolling Stones put it on their 1964 EP, The Rolling Stones.The Rolling Stones Decca, MONO DFE 8560   
has been declared to be violation of " Wikipedia's no original research policy by adding your personal analysis or synthesis"   that quote being from  an administrator who has threatened to block me if i add it again.  What do you think?  Carptrash (talk) 19:35, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: These are covers.  They are well known. This is a fact.  So what is the issue?  7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:45, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

text: I think all four of those should be included. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:49, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This song was pertinent to the Motown/RnB that British bands were listening to and influenced by in the early 60s. Adding a note about these particular recordings helps to illustrate this point. The list doesn't want to be bigger, but there is a significance to the song. FWIW I hate seeing long lists on of non-notable cover versions and will normally "reduce" such lists in accordance with WP:SONGCOVER. --Richhoncho (talk) 19:55, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I guess my personal thoughts don't really come into it. WP:SONGCOVER is quite clear, isn't it? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:05, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

text: It seems to me that to say that "the song was frequently recorded by British bands of the 1960s", we need a reliable source saying that.  I'm sure one exists.  But many US R&B songs of the time were performed and recorded by British bands, and I tend to sympathise with the view that - in the absence of a reliable source - simply naming one or two of them doesn't add anything of great value here.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:22, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but until such a RS can be found for that claim, I see no reason to removing these 4 referenced recordings. It helps to give a bigger picture to the article about the song without overpowering the article with 100s of cover versions in list format. Anyway removal of the additions should include the Beatles recordings of the song - that too, doesn't pass WP:NSONGS! --Richhoncho (talk) 10:41, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You may have a point there. Will User:Synthwave.94 also remove the Beatles version? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:50, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

text: While that may be technically true in a sense, it probably shows the limitations of the guidance - the Beatles' cover is obviously notable (there are numerous reliable sources discussing the Beatles' version), and a mention of it should remain.  It's surprisingly difficult to find any reliable descriptions of "Money" as a widely-covered song by British bands, even if we know it to be true.  Here is one (sort of) mention, describing the Stones' version as the "obligatory recording".   Most accounts of the period seem to focus on the Beatles, and don't say much about other bands who performed much of the same material at the same time.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:04, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

text: Ha...  Here's one... "By the summer of 1961 there were over four hundred groups on Merseyside playing sets that featured the same two dozen songs, including... Barrett Strong's "Money"...".    Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:28, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Fabulous, use it and can you refine "60s" to "early 60s" in the text? Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 11:31, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: FWIW I am happy that the article is correct with the Beatles and the 4 other early 60s recordings mentioned. However, I do think the Beatles' version fails on WP:NOTINHERITED. What I really would like to see is more about the song, and less about the various recordings - it is a song article - not a discography entry, nor a chart record entry. For instance does anybody want to look up the chord structure between the different versions. There's an interesting para to be written there if the RS can be found. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 11:25, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: So long as it's based on what sources say about the song, rather than what editors believe to be the case, that would be fine.  I think there would be considerable opposition to the idea of removing mentions of the Beatles' cover versions of songs from articles.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:31, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

text: . In which case put a refimprove tag on it. You reverted 4 times yesterday, once already today (I am just about to revert you) and you need to pay attention to WP:3RR. That appears to be a rule you ignore. WP:AGF and WP:CONSENSUS should also be read by you. Cheers.--Richhoncho (talk) 18:13, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe we should all concentrate on finding good sources to expand the article.  The song is discussed, apparently at some length, in Greil Marcus' book The History of Rock 'n' Roll in Ten Songs (which I don't have), and the Beatles' version is discussed in this article.  In this interview Marcus goes into some detail about the history of the song - both the writing and recording of the Barrett Strong original, and the Beatles version.  There is a much fuller discussion of Barrett Strong's role, and and interview with him,  here.  There is a (possibly incomplete) list of cover versions here.   All of these sources, and more, can be used to expand and develop the article, without the need for petty edit warring over whether or not to mention Freddie and the Dreamers.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:21, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It is annoying to me that Freddie and the Dreamers are mentioned, but with John Lee Hooker and not with the other British Invasion Beat groups, where they belong.  It also amusing to discover a source (thanks, someone) exists for using the word "staple" to describe the song's role in the British music scene in the 1960s after the same word was tossed out earlier.  Love is Strange (as Mickey & Sylvia taught us), but not as strange as what goes on on wikipedia. Carptrash (talk) 20:38, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see no good reason to mention Freddie and the Dreamers.  The cited source mentions them, and Hooker, as examples - not in any way suggesting they were more "notable" than myriads of other examples for which sources also exist.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:49, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason for including Freddie and company is that they were part of the group of bands that made it a staple. As far as I can see, reference #13, that follows the Dreamers and JL Hooker makes no reference to either one.  But then I am one of those editors who thinks that songs that are covered by dozens or hundreds or thousands of artists should have all covers listed in a separate list.  This is relevant information about the song, info that is of interest to many. Carptrash (talk) 20:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  WP:Paper.  This is useful, pertinent, iformative and cumulatively informative.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:01, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: F & the Ds, and Hooker, are mentioned in the opening paragraph of the source here.  My point was that the fact that they are mentioned there does not make them any more notable than the many versions that are not mentioned there.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:09, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  an addition to the Covers section 

message: I thought we had an agreement that the 4 noted artists could be included, but I now note we have an editor who thinks everybody who played the song is a "notable cover" Not only that they are adding categories (which are supposed to be defining) for things that are not mentioned at all, let alone in the lead. what do you all say? --Richhoncho (talk) 10:41, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Are Freddie and the Dreamers more notable than The Doors?--Egghead06 (talk) 12:31, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see discussion above. Also not relevant because of WP:NOTINHERITED. --Richhoncho (talk) 12:50, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

text: PS.  Please explain why you remove ALL cover versions with this edit on Forever Young (Bob Dylan song), yet add on this article? Not very consistent. Why? --Richhoncho (talk) 14:16, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I'm obliged to explain my edits to you but........I dislike endless unsourced lists of covers and as you know they fail WP:SONGCOVER. On the other hand where a source is provided I  appreciate many editors believe mentioning covers adds benefit and I have no wish to go against this. We are, after all, building an encyclopaedia. Those without source add nothing and may as well be made up.--Egghead06 (talk) 14:27, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I am querying your total disrespect and misunderstanding of WP:SONGCOVER and WP:NSONGS. With or without references your two additions add nothing to the article and you have patently not being able to justify their addition.  If you check the discussion above you might appreciate why the 4 recordings were added. If you don't want the discussion, I, or somebody else, should remove the Doors etc. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:37, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: In your opinion they add nothing. In mine they do. The song was a staple of the Doors live set and a recurring sample in a Uk no. 4 hit.--Egghead06 (talk) 14:47, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Then why not add the other 68 cover versions listed in SecondHandSongs? The original 4 were added to show how much a staple of early 60s the song was, but samples and lists of samples are regularly deleted, as for the Doors, it's an opinion which you cannot/will not substantiate. --Richhoncho (talk) 16:03, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  an addition to the Covers section Part 2 

message: I've watched the two of you violate black letter prohibitions.  We need to get this on the talk page with all the interested editors.  And once consensus is reached,  User:Synthwave.94 doesn't get a veto.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:06, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: May I suggest you restoring this version before all of this started ? Synthwave.94 (talk) 12:13, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi . Please have a chat with Synthwave in regards to edit warring  again today. Caden cool 23:12, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No actual edit warring. Synthwave.94 (talk) 23:38, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes you were edit warring again today Synthwave. And the next time you modify my post like you did in this thread again, I'm taking you to ANI. Caden cool 00:03, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hypothetically, if you modified another's post it would be considered to be a serious breach of proper Wikipedia etiquette.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 00:18, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: See here  Caden cool 00:22, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't help but feel this thread is not doing much to improve this article. I suggest you both just take a break or else, I suspect that User:Floquenbeam may well turn up again and suggest an interaction ban between the two of you. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:31, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

text: No, it means I put the hat in the wrong place.  Fixed. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:16, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

text: And don't forget, you can always be nice to each other. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:01, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:3RR]], [[WP:Edit warring]] and [[WP:Own]]

message: @HzH. I see you reverted my edits on March 25. Could you please point me to any policies or guidelines from WP:SONGCOVER or from WP:SONG that supports your preferred version? Failure to do so may result in other editors challenging you or reverting your edits. Caden cool 20:56, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  UserHzH  

message: This song is totally rhythm and blues, so l changed to rhythm and blues. LSM1204 (talk) 02:47, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rhythm and blues 

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