Talk:Porter Goss

message: this article is biased and partisan, please rewrite it in an unbiased way, serving the truth.
Haagsrudent 16:54, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: biased and partisan

message: When writing political entries, I think it is important to remember that not everyone reading them (especially when they are listed on the main page) is going to be familiar with the American political system. Hence, I am reformatting much of the article.
Also, it is important to remember that this is an encyclopedia, meant to last the test of time. Therefore, it is appropriate to write in the past tense.
I am not trying to chastise anyone and I hope this is not taken in that way. I am just adding a helpful reminder. Skyler 12:55, Aug 11, 2004 (UTC)
:Thanks for the work. I was being lazy and reusing text from dKosopedia, which has a more partisan tone. If you compare the two, you can see I actually did a fair amount of Wikipedifying the tone from that. --The Cunctator 17:14, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writing political entries and remembering this is an encyclopedia. 

message: There is discussion that the real reason for his exit is that
he MAY be caught up in the Duke Cunningham Watergate Hooker scandal.  the preceding unsigned comment was left by User:2006 24.20.248.75  07:47, 6 May (UTC)
:Surprised the controversy, aka hookergate or fornigate, isn't mentioned in the article yet.  Ombudsman 13:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it IS mentioned in the article already, with external references (since evening of may 5). Read closer. It's not primarily a "hooker scandal" , its a defense contracting corruption scandal.  I don't think "hookergate" and  "fornigate" are common terms in circulation and in any case, this emphasizes minor details which distract from the real reason for the scandal Bwithh 14:02, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It seems to be gone now. No mentions of Watergate or prostitution anywhere in the article. Which seems odd. - Alltat (talk) 10:33, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Watergate Hooker Scandal?

message: I believe this entry is confusing.  First it says WS speculates that Goss was fired over a turf war with Negroponte.  Then it says they believe he was forced out for "other reasons."  Then there is a long quotation part of which is more about Negroponte than Goss.  I don't want to delete valid information, but I am not sure all of this is relevant or useful here.--csloat 19:29, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Weekly Standard stuff?

message: {insert after "some very interesting moments in the Florida Straits":}  A photograph taken January 22, 1962 in Mexico City appears to show Goss at a table with CIA gun-runner and drug-runner Barry Seal and other members of the CIA's assassination squad named "Operation 40."  {link to source:} http://www.madcowprod.com/index.html, http://www.madcowprod.com/new_page_8.htm
: Note that user TDC seems engaged in partisan POV attacks on all pages concerning US-Cuban relations c.1959-1964, including this photograph.  Note that s/he has engaged in numberous Reversion wars, and has already been limited to one revision per day.  See User talk:TDC, with a summary at the end.
:: The burden of proof lies with you to WP:CITE a source that verifies what this photo implies. We have no indication, other thanyor word that this photo is what it claims to be. As such, it goes. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 02:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  http://www.madcowprod.com, is not a valid source. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 17:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The allegation is fodder for conspiracy theorists. Daniel Hopsicker in Mad Cow Morning News asserted that he had a photo of Goss with other members of Operation 40. As early as 2004, John Simkin reports the claim and publishes it in Spartacus Educational. Don Bohning in a 2008 Washington Decoded article states that he calls Goss who vehemently denies that he is in the photo. Simkin replies in the comment section of that article that the origin for that claim is not him but Hopsicker. Six years later in August 2014 — (perhaps after this was discussed in a discussion on the Fringe Theories Noticeboard — Simkin finally updates his article to include what he knew in 2008 (i.e. that Goss denied the allegation). Given that there are no reliable sources stating that Goss was ever a member of Operation 40 and that there is a source quoting Goss as denying it, I have removed that material from the article. Location (talk) 19:13, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Undercover operations in Mexico

message: All mentions of Foggo have apparently been exised from this article.  This make the article incomplete, imho.  Many have stated that Goss' appointment of Foggo, and his refusal to fire him, was a contributing factor to Goss' firing.  Thoughts anyone? -- Sholom 17:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foggo 

message: The article refers to Goss as having being the appointed as the CIA director.  In fact, Goss was Director of Central Intelligence which was a combination of the job of CIA director and of the later-created Director of National Intelligence.  The job of CIA director wasn't created until shortly before Goss resigned.  While I understand that it's popularly known as CIA director, it simply isn't so. Lordjeff06 (talk) 22:04, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a good point! During the last decade the CIA along with the whole intelligence community went through a bunch of confusing restructuring. Indeed, on December 17, 2004, the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act was signed, which abolished the positions of Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) and Deputy Director of Central Intelligence (DDCI). Instead, it created the positions of the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (D/CIA) and of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI). --Nabak (talk) 14:24, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: It's been three years since the last move discussion on this page, so I'm re-opening in a new section.  This article should be moved to Porter Goss ; "Porter Goss"  is more commonly used than "Porter J. Goss", and per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) the name should be in first name, last name format, with no middle initial, unless the name with initial is demonstrably more common.  Baileypalblue (talk) 02:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-opening move discussion 

message: This is the closing sentence of the Resignation section:
:Goss is was an active speaker on the lecture circuit.
Was he or is he? Should this be in this section?  If it's "was" then it's not very relevant. If it's "is" and  should stay, perhaps it should be reworded to say something along the lines of "Since his resignation, Goss has been an active speaker ...."  Ileanadu (talk) 15:35, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resignation Section 

message: Timeline is not very clear.  When did the events happen?
:A week later, Kappes and Sulick, ...
A week after what?
In final paragraph it says: 
:Following Goss's departure, both Kappas and Sulick have returned to positions of higher authority in the U.S. Intelligence Community. Kappas is the Deputy Director of the CIA and Sulick was appointed Director of the National Clandestine Service on September 14, 2007.
Why include the date for one and not the other? Were they both appointed on 9/14/07? Is this referring to Kappes' more recent appointment along with Leon Panetta in 2009? If so, is it "following Goss's departure" or "since."
::BTW, it should be "Kappes" not "Kappas." I will change.
Further adding to the confusion regarding the timeline:
:Since Kappes reemergence at the CIA it has been reported that he quit the Agency rather than carry out a request by Goss to reassign Michael Sulick.
The resignations occurred in 2005 (2004, or 2006) but it wasn't known until his reemergence in 2007 or 2009 why he had resigned? I recall contemporaneous reports linking Sulick's and Kappes resignations.  Who reported/what's the source?
There's nothing in the section actually about changes other than Goss promised to make changes.  It's really talking about personality clashes after Goss came in.  Is the point that he was unable to make changes?  Were any changes made?  If so, what?  
In the 3rd paragraph where the personality clashes are first described, it says:
:Kappes was rumored to have personally told DO officers ...
:were reported to believe
We're including rumors?  Without a source? Reported by whom? Citations?
Apparently we also know what was going on in the actor's minds:
:A week later, Kappes and Sulick, recognizing that Goss was going to protect his former Hill staff, ... who Goss reportedly believed had started the whole series of events by ...
I only have a cursory knowledge about these events and the CIA in general; otherwise I'd make changes instead of just criticizing. Ileanadu (talk) 16:08, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early Changes Under Goss - Dates & Citations needed throughout 

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