Talk:State highways in California/Archive 1

message: Articles on numbered California state roads already exist under several articles entitled "California State Route n." -- knoodelhed 09:53, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be helpful to have a clear summary of this incorporated into the introduction of this article. It certainly cause me some confusion in trying to understand why a CA-SR had been in the article for Interstate 110. See Talk:California State Route 110 for the gory details of my groping about in the dark. Of course, I only looked at the 110 section below--if I had read knoodelhed's paragraph above it would have saved me figuring it out on my own. I'll take a shot at adding it to the intro. older≠wiser 13:58, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Generally

message: Does anyone know if Interstate 110 the same as California State Highway 110? jengod 07:19, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
:It should be, or one would be an extension of the other. IIRC the portion departing northward from San Pedro is an interstate (and many years ago was designated CA-11), and if there is a CA-110 it would be a minor northern portion, much as CA-15 in San Diego ends where I-15 begins. -- knoodelhed 09:53, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: 110

message: ====Current CA SR 110/Pasadena Freeway====
*1940: no route number/Arroyo Seco Parkway
*1966: U.S. Route 66/Pasadena Freeway
*circa. 1970: CA SR 11/Pasadena Freeway
*1984: CA SR 110/Pasadena Freeway (number changed for number continuity to motorists when the Harbor Freeway won Interstate designation)
The Pasadena Freeway (CA SR 110) has been the 110 since 1984.  It was CA SR 11, and the Long Beach Freeway (currently I-710) was CA SR 71.  As far as I know, their numbers were changed when the Long Beach Freeway (now I-710) and the Harbor Freeway (now I-110) became part of the federal interstate system.  The zero was added to the numbers because they are seen as branches of I-10 (the San Bernadino Freeway and the Santa Monica Freeway).  These numbers were changed in 1984--NOT IN THE YEAR 2000.  Just check your old Thomas Guides if you don't believe me.
These number changes unfortunately confused the numbering system of Los Angeles-area freeways; except for the 105 (completed in 1993), the 110, and the 710, the rest of the freeways follow a fairly consistent pattern:  Even numbered freeways run east-west, and odd-numbered freeways run north-south.  When they were still the 11 and the 71, this numbering system remained consistent.  But because of federal interstate-highway rules, the local logic has been sacrificed to beauracratic inconsistency.
Another example of how inane the federal interstate-highway system is I-405.  In Los Angeles, the 405 is known as the San Diego Freeway from its beginning in the San Fernando Valley until its termination into I-5 in Orange County (at which point the 5 becomes the San Diego Freeway).  The next instance of I-405 is almost a thousand miles north in Portland, Oregon, where I-405 is a very short freeway that branches off of I-5.  So the same interstate stops and then starts again--hundreds of miles away and in a different state.
====Current I - 110/Harbor Freeway====
*1952: unknown route number/Harbor Freeway
*circa. 1970: CA SR 11/Harbor Freeway
*1984: I - 110/Harbor Freeway
As you can see, from after 1963, when California signed into law a bill simplifying route numbers in the state (Interstate, US, and CA routes), the route and highway shield of these two freeways were the same from for certain 1970 to circa. 2000: California SR 11.  Because California State government was finally able to get U. S. federal dollars to maintain the Harbor Freeway portion,  that portion had its highway shield and number change to conform with federal statutes - Interstate 110.  (No more green and white shovel logo, now the red, white and blue Interstate logo)  This caused the Pasadena Freeway portion of CA SR 11 to become CA SR "110" - to preserve the number continuity as an overall route.  
In the Southern California area, they are still known by their directional word names: Pasadena Freeway and Harbor Freeway.  Not the same name.  Not built at the same time.  But for the benefit of nonlocals - tourists and new residents - since around at least 1970 they have shared the same "number" designation only.  Don't let the same number on (currently) different shields fool you into thinking they are one freeway.  They aren't regarded as such.  They are, though, two parts of the same overall route - a different thing altogether. Hope this sheds some light and perspective from a CalTrans point of view.  
And yes, I've added this information and the distinction between particular named freeways - while acknowledging overall routes - to the "Interstate 110" article.  My intent is to be useful, and use words with due care and precision. 209.221.223.140 20:27, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: A route shield/name rundown of these two freeways over the past decades:

message: *1952: unknown route number/Harbor Freeway
*circa. 1970: CA SR 11/Harbor Freeway
*1984: I - 110/Harbor Freeway
As you can see, from after 1963, when California signed into law a bill simplifying route numbers in the state (Interstate, US, and CA routes), the route and highway shield of these two freeways were the same from for certain 1970 to circa. 2000: California SR 11.  Because California State government was finally able to get U. S. federal dollars to maintain the Harbor Freeway portion,  that portion had its highway shield and number change to conform with federal statutes - Interstate 110.  (No more green and white shovel logo, now the red, white and blue Interstate logo)  This caused the Pasadena Freeway portion of CA SR 11 to become CA SR "110" - to preserve the number continuity as an overall route.  
In the Southern California area, they are still known by their directional word names: Pasadena Freeway and Harbor Freeway.  Not the same name.  Not built at the same time.  But for the benefit of nonlocals - tourists and new residents - since around at least 1970 they have shared the same "number" designation only.  Don't let the same number on (currently) different shields fool you into thinking they are one freeway.  They aren't regarded as such.  They are, though, two parts of the same overall route - a different thing altogether. Hope this sheds some light and perspective from a CalTrans point of view.  
And yes, I've added this information and the distinction between particular named freeways - while acknowledging overall routes - to the "Interstate 110" article.  My intent is to be useful, and use words with due care and precision. 209.221.223.140 20:27, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Current I - 110/Harbor Freeway

message: Does anyone know how to include a map of a highway in the article?  Without violating copyright, of course.  Looking at most of these, I don't see any maps, yet an article on a highway just cries out for a map.  --Yath 11:30, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Maps

message: What should be done with some of the very short state highways? When writing an ariticle on CA-61 (Which is rather short itself), I saw that one terminus was with a CA-260, and another was with a CA-112. CA-260 is only a few blocks long and runs through the tunnels between Alameda and Oakland and CA-112 runs along one street in Oakland and San Leandro. They seem too short to deserve an entire article to themselves, but there isn't a list of them anywhere or anything like that. Octoferret 05:09, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)
*CA-112 and CA-260 are "hidden" -- they may be listed on maps and in the legislative code, but in real practice, the roads are both signed as part of CA-61.  . Zzyzx11 09:43, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What to do with the very short state highways? 

message: My Thomas Guide (©1997) show the Terminal Island Freeway as Route 103. Why isn't  it in this list? (And as for the red-linked route article, why not create it as a redirect to the Terminal Island Freeway article?)BlankVerse ∅ 08:50, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Terminal Island Freeway?

message: * SR 109 - description here
* SR 242 - description here
* SR 31 - description here
* SR 71 - description here
* SR 77 - description here
* SR 83 - description here
* SR 109 - description here
* SR 142 - description here
* SR 164 - description here
* SR 184 - description here
* SR 185 - description here
* SR 202 - description here
* SR 242 - description here
* SR 244 - description here
* SR 249 - description here
* SR 263 - description here
* SR 210 - description here
--atanamir 22:58, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  MISSING ROUTES FROM THELIST 

message: Someone has done a lot of work on the US Highways and Interstate routes on this page, but I'm not sure its appropriate for this location.  This is supposed to be a page about state routes.  Perhaps this data can be moved to another page?  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 06:40, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interstates and US Highways?