Talk:Nguyễn dynasty

message: There are currently two (2) maps of the country under the reign of the Minh Mạng Emperor, one of which is quite accurate and detailed and the other claims that the Kingdom of Vientiane was a Nguyễn vassal state. I propose replacing the latter map (so the top one) with one of the French protectorates of Annam & Tonkin in 1940 showing the different provinces and autonomous territories of the time. I wanted commission such a map at the Wikimedia Commons, but I haven't been able to find a detailed survey of the Nguyễn Dynasty's provinces from 1940 yet. --Donald Trung (talk)  08:10, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replacing the map 

message: One thing I have had trouble finding out is about the legislative system of the Empire of Vietnam during its final days. I added the "Rule by decree" system to the umbrella Nguyễn Dynasty article, and the French protectorates of Annam and Tonkin. During the entire independent period of the Nguyễn Dynasty the Emperor had full legislative powers and the legal code, the Gia Long era Hoàng Việt luật lệ (皇越律例), sometimes known as the "Gia Long Code", remained the main civil code of the Nguyễn dynasty until the Emperor issued the nearly identical Civil Code of Annam and Civil Code of Tonkin sometime during either the 1920's or 1930's (as far as I could find). In the French protectorates of Annam and Tonkin the (old) laws of the Nguyễn dynasty, such as Sắc (敕, "Imperial Order"), Chí (誌, "Ordinance"), and Dụ (諭, "Decree"), remained in effect but were subordinate to the laws of the French administration, which were also made by decree, either by the Governor-General of French Indo-China or the President of France. As for imperial decrees and Imperial edicts that were legally bounding; I have been able to find these right until the 1940's and the whole reason why the prominent mandarin Ngô Đình Diệm quit was because the French refused to greenlight the creation of a native Nguyễn Dynasty legislature (meaning that the Emperor's decrees remained the main legislative branch). In fact, even as late as 1943 any executive actions by for example the Ministry of Economic Affairs and the Ministry of National Education had to be signed off under imperial decree, though usually the cabinet of the Nguyễn Dynasty's seals appeared on these on Annamese and Tonkinese documents, so I'm not sure if the cabinet can be considered to be "a legislative branch", but I've heard no external source refer to it as such. 
It gets a bit murky for 1945, as the Empire of Vietnam's Trần Trọng Kim cabinet was drafting a constitution that would've transformed the Nguyễn Dynasty into a constitutional monarchy, but as far as I can find this constitution was never completed and I can't find any information if the Empire of Vietnam has its own legislative branch or if the absolute monarchy remained in place. So I can confidently say that from 1802 to 1945 the Nguyễn Dynasty had a "Rule by decree" system, but I'm not sure for the middle half of 1945. --Donald Trung (talk)  10:11, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legislative system of the Nguyễn Dynasty in 1945 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: I came across these edits and found them quite funny, a removal of information without justification followed by a mass-deletion that points to the Chinese origins of Kinh culture simply by calling it "irrelevant". Then they added this which did have a good explanation, namely "" But some further investigation into actual contemporary sources tell us that this is not true at all, and I actually initially even agreed with their claims. 
In 1882 Catalan Egyptologist Eduardo Toda y Güell published the book Annam and its Minor Currency, what's interesting about this book is that it categorises its contents into several chapters, namely: 
* PART I. General Notices
** I. Preliminary Remarks
** II. Geographical and Historical Notes
** III. Chronological Tables of the Annamese Dynasties
** IV. Situation of Annam as an Independent Country
** V. Mines
** VI. Manufacture of Coins
** VII. False Coinage, and Penal Laws relating thereto
** VIII. Magazines for Coins, and Laws referring to them
** IX. Customs and superstitions connected with Coins
** X. Paper-money in Annam
* PART II. History of the Coinage
** XI. The Ngo Family. The twelve Suquan. The Dinh Dynasty. The former Le Dynasty. - 940-1010.
** XII. The Ly Dynasty. - 1010-1225.
** XIII. The Tran Dynasty. - 1225-1414.
** XIV. Rebels. - 1368-1420.
** XV. Chinese domination and war of independence. - 1414-1428.
** XVI. The Le Dynasty. - 1428-1785. ( Part 1, Part 2 )
** XVII. Rebels. 1459-1532.
** XVIII. The Mac and Nguyen Governments.
** XIX. The Tay-son Rebellion. 1764-1801.
** XX. Chinese intervention in Tunquin, and the Nguyen Dynasty.
** XXI. The Nguy-khoi Rebellion. The Nung Rebellion. Doubtful Coins. 1600 to date. 
So this was a book written during the reign of the Tự Đức Emperor and it specifically calls "the present period" the Nguyễn Dynasty. This isn't something like the "Byzantine Empire" where historians dreamt up a name decades after the state ended, this was a contemporary name that people actually used to refer to this period in Vietnamese history while it was happening. --Donald Trung (talk)  23:24, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Laska666 is wrong about this term not being contemporary 

message: , regarding this edit. That many historians have a negative view of the Nguyễn Dynasty, is that not neutral? As it only states that the period is viewed negatively by current Vietnamese historians (which is true) but it doesn't claim that this is objectively true, so it is bad to express that point of view there? 
I don't think that it's particularly bad to mention it here as it simply says that a bias against this period exists. Which our readers are probably sure to find in other works and "sub-articles" about this time period. --Donald Trung (talk)  10:03, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Point of view