Talk:Midhat Mursi

message: If it is confirmed that he was in fact killed, I will begin changing the language in the article to past tense, but I think it's too early right now. --Vagodin 04:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled 

message: I believe this is just an allegation -- has anyone offered any proof?
A PBS documentary on precision munitions and electronic warfare in Iraq said that American forces were authorized to launch attacks that would kill up to 30 civilians if they thought they might kill a senior member of Saddam's leadership.  The documentary said they launched fifty attacks that they thought might decapitate Saddam's leadership.  All of these attacks with precision weapons succeeded, in that they hit the buildings they were aimed at.  All of these attacks were failures, in that they failed to hit a single member of the leadership.  The PBS documentary didn't say how many civilians died in these amateurish decapitation attacks.  But I counted a couple of dozen in the four attempts that I found reference to in the news.
This attack sounds like a similar decapitation attempts, where the American high command calculated that it was worth launching the attack, knowing it would kill innocent civilians, in the hope it might kill Zawahiri. When it failed to kill Zawahiri there would be great pressure to produce a consolation prize to divert attention from the deaths of the 18 civilians.
=== Trained Richard Reid and Z Moussai? ===
Midhat Mursi has the nickname Abu Khatab Al Masri -- Abu al Masri.  On the 18th CNN's Wolf Blitzer kept referring to him as "Abu Al Masri".  Well, the other infamous Abu Hamza al-Masri, the former iman of the Finsbury Park Mosque, also known as "Abu al-Masri", is also alleged to have been a mentor to Richard Reid and Moussai.  
=== The photo ===
Compare the photo on the blog site, and compare it with photos of the iman of the Finsbury mosque. 
I strongly suspect that the photo being identified as Midhat Mursi is actually a photo of the Abu Hamza al-Masri.  It would be typical of the competence of US intelligence, so far, to have made this kind of mistake.  Remember how much confusion there was when Zarqari first rose to prominence when Nick Berg was killed?  The US had been telling everyone Zarqari had a prosthetic leg -- inconsistent with the ability of the guy believed to be him to wrestle poor Berg to the ground.  
And if you read some of the Combatant Status Review Tribunal dossiers made public through FOIA, you will find instance after instance of name confusion.  You will find many instances of guys who were told they would continue to be held in Guantanamo because someone found their name on a hard drive that was believed to have belonged to someone in Al Qaeda.  In the heartbreaking transcript of Abdullah Kamel Abdullah Kamel Al Kandari's CSRT he begged the Tribunal to tell him what name had been found on this hard drive.  He explained he was a sports hero, a member of the Kuwaiti volleyball team.  As a sports hero he had many nicknames.  He suggested that if his name was found on an al Qaeda member's hard drive it may have been there simply because the owner was a sports fan.  A distressing fact that he wouldn't have learned was that the documents in his dossier transcribe his name six, count 'em six, different ways.  You'd think that if you were going to suspend a suspect's human rights based on the claim that you found his name on a suspect's hard drive, you'd make sure that was really his name -- and you would make sure you spelled his name the same way every time you used it.
My point being skepticism is in order that the US intelligence correctly identified this guy.  And we shouldn't repeat any of their claims as if they were true -- without any evidence.  --  Geo Swan 00:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This event is still unfolding and I will be following it closely, but what you have to remember is that you and I are in no position to overturn new reports, U.S. intelligence or Pakistani intelligence.  All we have is pure speculation.  I do agree, however, that liberal usage of words such as "allegedly", "reportedly, and "possibly" are in order. Best regards. --Vagodin 02:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what you mean by "overturning" US or Pakistani reports.  If we exercise the neutrality not to accept their unsubstantiated reports there is nothing to overturn.  --  Geo Swan 03:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agreed with your addition of the word "alleged", but other than that I feel that the article is neutral.  As for the "overturning" question, I was thinking that you were suggesting that we automatically dismiss the reports because of past U.S. intelligence failures.  I see now that I probably misunderstood you. --Vagodin 04:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, I did go ahead and change some more of the wording.  --Vagodin 04:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I voiced my suspicion that the photo circulated as Midhat Mursi's was actually Abu Hamza al-Masri before the CIA acknowledged it.  --  Geo Swan 20:19, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  top bomb maker?  What it is important to remember... 

message: Compare the photo on the blog site, and compare it with photos of the iman of the Finsbury mosque. 
I strongly suspect that the photo being identified as Midhat Mursi is actually a photo of the Abu Hamza al-Masri.  It would be typical of the competence of US intelligence, so far, to have made this kind of mistake.  Remember how much confusion there was when Zarqari first rose to prominence when Nick Berg was killed?  The US had been telling everyone Zarqari had a prosthetic leg -- inconsistent with the ability of the guy believed to be him to wrestle poor Berg to the ground.  
And if you read some of the Combatant Status Review Tribunal dossiers made public through FOIA, you will find instance after instance of name confusion.  You will find many instances of guys who were told they would continue to be held in Guantanamo because someone found their name on a hard drive that was believed to have belonged to someone in Al Qaeda.  In the heartbreaking transcript of Abdullah Kamel Abdullah Kamel Al Kandari's CSRT he begged the Tribunal to tell him what name had been found on this hard drive.  He explained he was a sports hero, a member of the Kuwaiti volleyball team.  As a sports hero he had many nicknames.  He suggested that if his name was found on an al Qaeda member's hard drive it may have been there simply because the owner was a sports fan.  A distressing fact that he wouldn't have learned was that the documents in his dossier transcribe his name six, count 'em six, different ways.  You'd think that if you were going to suspend a suspect's human rights based on the claim that you found his name on a suspect's hard drive, you'd make sure that was really his name -- and you would make sure you spelled his name the same way every time you used it.
My point being skepticism is in order that the US intelligence correctly identified this guy.  And we shouldn't repeat any of their claims as if they were true -- without any evidence.  --  Geo Swan 00:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This event is still unfolding and I will be following it closely, but what you have to remember is that you and I are in no position to overturn new reports, U.S. intelligence or Pakistani intelligence.  All we have is pure speculation.  I do agree, however, that liberal usage of words such as "allegedly", "reportedly, and "possibly" are in order. Best regards. --Vagodin 02:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what you mean by "overturning" US or Pakistani reports.  If we exercise the neutrality not to accept their unsubstantiated reports there is nothing to overturn.  --  Geo Swan 03:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agreed with your addition of the word "alleged", but other than that I feel that the article is neutral.  As for the "overturning" question, I was thinking that you were suggesting that we automatically dismiss the reports because of past U.S. intelligence failures.  I see now that I probably misunderstood you. --Vagodin 04:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, I did go ahead and change some more of the wording.  --Vagodin 04:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The photo 

message: :::::I voiced my suspicion that the photo circulated as Midhat Mursi's was actually Abu Hamza al-Masri before the CIA acknowledged it.  --  Geo Swan 20:19, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I called it first 

message: According to the BBC he is now dead from a missile strike. Perhaps someone collected on that $5m reward.. --EvilMonkeySlayer (talk) 15:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added that earlier. But I'm kinda reluctant to write that he's definitely dead, yet. Especially given what happened last time. Probably we should wait for some statement from the US government/change to that rewards website.--Fangz (talk) 18:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Now dead 

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thread_title:  External links modified