Talk:Motorcycle/Archive 1

message: The description of countersteering is correct, but the explanation is incorrect. It is generally considered that precession is only a small component of what goes on during counter steering, and that the major component is simply due to the contact patch moving to the side and causing the motorcycle to yaw (I think it's yaw) around its center of mass. 
If precession were a major factor, moving the bars in a wheelie and tank-slappers would induce major lean, and neither is the case. 
Hello countersteering is correct but this is offset by leaning the bike to the right to go around the corner, this is demonstratble by the fact that  if you try and corner to fast you drift out to the left and crash.
Please learn how to sign your coments with four tildes (~~~~). Bennyboyz3000 02:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Countersteering

message: This really is a very dull and boring page for motorcycles, the little bits of advice about riding and tuning sound like an old mother hen. One day when I have time I'll write a new one. Bob Palin 23:18, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, get on with it, we've been waiting a year!! - Adrian Pingstone 14:04, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd totally forgotten about this comment, the page has been edited a lot since then and I think is much better now. Bob Palin 18:40, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Bob, apologies for my rude tone, it wasn't intended to come out like that! Best Wishes - Adrian Pingstone 09:30, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Really very dull and boring

message: There was some question about Harley building the first motorcycle. However, William Harley and the Davidson brothers (Arthur and Walter) built their bike in 1902.
The problem with the word "motorcycle" as opposed to "motorbike" is that a bike has only two wheels while a cycle may have one or more. I know of no motorized unicycle. In most instances, a motorcycle is distinguished from an automobile in that a cycle has only one driven wheel without another on the same axle or a free-wheeling wheel positioned laterally from it. The first cycle of this sort was the Butler in 1884. Edward Butler designed a tricycle with a single wheel at the back which was powered by a gasoline engine. It had two wheels up front. It was not until 1888 that Butler had this thing in production.
Daimler's unit in 1885 was a wood-frame cycle that had two large in-line wheels where the rear wheel was powered by his motor. There were, indeed, two small "out-rigger" wheels which did not touch the ground except when the unit was leaned over as when turning a corner or when stopped. The rider straddled the frame rather than sitting in a chair-like seat (which feature some might use to describe a motorcycle).
--Cadillac 16:20, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  First motorcycle 

message: We have a section about motorcycles in India that consists of a list of external links to Indian motorcycle manufacturers. I would say split off a separate article (Motorcycles in India has potential, no?), except there is no content to go with the links. Suggestions? Rl 11:30, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed it from the article and will place it here.--Clawed 12:02, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Motorcycles in India

message: The article now claims that "Some bikes have flashing strobe headlights.". I've never seen anything that I'd describe like that. I find it hard to believe because if it looks anything like the strobe lights I know, it must be incredibly irritating to everyone involved. Details, please? Is it the main headlight or an additional light? What's the frequency used? Where can they be found (country, model)? Rl 08:02, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Fascinating. I can't wait to see one of those :-). Thanks! Rl 23:14, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's a link to a company that sells the modulator. http://www.xtremerevolution.com/Store/spc-1294-38-5-kuryakyn-kisan-pathblazer-headlight-modulator.aspx
Headlight modulators are used widely, and not just by Gold Wing riders.  I have used them for years on my modern BMW motorcycles.  Sometimes local police are unaware of federal law. Therefore, I always carry a copy of the federal law with my bike's registration and insurance cards.  For those who care about such things, here 'tis (compressed into one paragraph):
Federal Motor Vehicle Standards, CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4
S7.9.4 Motorcycle headlamp modulation system.
S7.9.4.1 A headlamp on a motorcycle may be wired to modulate either the upper beam or the lower beam from its maximum intensity to a lesser intensity, provided that: (a) The rate of modulation shall be 240 plus-or-minus 40 cycles per minute. (b) The headlamp shall be operated at maximum power for 50 to 70 percent of each cycle. (c) The lowest intensity at any test point shall be not less than 17 percent of the maximum intensity measured at the same point. (d) The modulator switch shall be wired in the power lead of the beam filament being modulated and not in the ground side of the circuit. (e) Means shall be provided so that both the lower beam and upper beam remain operable in the event of a modulator failure. (f) The system shall include a sensor mounted with the axis of its sensing element perpendicular to a horizontal plane. Headlamp modulation shall cease whenever the level of light emitted by a tungsten filament light operating at 3000 deg. Kelvin is either less than 270 lux (25 foot-candles) of direct light for upward pointing sensors or less than 60 lux (5.6 foot-candles) of reflected light for downward pointing sensors. The light is measured by a silicon cell type light meter that is located at the sensor and pointing in the same direction as the sensor. A Kodak Gray Card (Kodak R-27) is placed at ground level to simulate the road surface in testing downward pointing sensors. (g) When tested in accordance with the test profile shown in Figure 9, the voltage drop across the modulator when the lamp is on at all test conditions for 12 volt systems and 6 volt systems shall not be greater than .45 volt. The modulator shall meet all the provisions of the standard after completion of the test profile shown in Figure 9. (h) Means shall be provided so that both the lower and upper beam function at design voltage when the headlamp control switch is in either the lower or upper beam position when the modulator is off. S7.9.4.2(a) Each motorcycle headlamp modulator not intended as original equipment, or its container, shall be labeled with the maximum wattage, and the minimum wattage appropriate for its use. Additionally, each such modulator shall comply with S7.9.4.1 (a) through (g) when connected to a headlamp of the maximum rated power and a headlamp of the minimum rated power, and shall provide means so that the modulated beam functions at design voltage when the modulator is off. (b) Instructions, with a diagram, shall be provided for mounting the light sensor including location on the motorcycle, distance above the road surface, and and orientation with respect to the light.
I have posted a more picturesque PDF version of both the U.S. and Canadian regs here: http://bmwdean.home.att.net/modulator-headlamp.pdf.
These federal regs supercede all state laws and enable modulators that meet the specifications. Canada has also adopted a federal law; it copies the U.S. law into Canadian statutes, effective May 19, 2001, and is titled Technical Standards Document — No. 108, Revision 3. 
I use modulators made by Kisan . Jeff dean 21:31, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flashing strobe headlights?

message: As noted, I rewrote the safety section. If someone feels I chopped out useful information, feel free to edit it back in. It still needs more work, but I have to sleep at some time. My only concern with the section now is that the writing style may be too dry.
Also, this entire page will soon need to be broken into sub-articles. It's getting excessively large. — User:Bruce2 06:42:45, 2005-08-23 (UTC)
:It looks good to me Cadillac 00:04, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrote Safety Section

message: I have a couple of questions regarding this section. First, I am not clear what to make of "A good motorcycle chassis has no stability problems." That seems a bit overstated. Even "good" motorcycles can become unstable under the right circumstances. Second, I am an experienced rider, but I have never seen the term "capsizing" used in this context. As written, I can not determine the meaning of the sentence. --TheJeffMiller 15:54, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Chassis stability

message: the information found at http://www.picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl?index=132708&calln=4&lastq=&opt=ANY&doc0=0&query=bicycle is to large to discern by myself in the short amount of time necessary to have a descent article before the deletion.  Please help by including any pertinent information for the  article.  Thank you! --CyclePat 04:55, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Timeline of Motorized bicycle history]] 

message: While there is unquestionably risk involved in riding a motorcycle the unqualified blanket statement I removed was not up to standard and contained misinformation about dirt bike riding.
Bob Palin 03:46, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Risk 

message: The following section is removed because some of the models do not have a true "cult" following. If there is a model here that you prefer, I suggest you build on the entry. For instance, there is no entry for Vincent motorcycles where the Vincent Black Shadow could be featured.
Models
Some individual bikes almost develop a cult following:
* Kawasaki KLR650
* BMW F650 GS
* Honda Goldwing
* Norton Commando Ultimate Twin Cylinder
* Vincent Black Shadow
* Honda Hawk NT650 GT(Honda NT650)
* Yamaha FJR 1300
* Yamaha XT 500
* Yamaha SR 500
* Yamaha Venture
Cadillac 02:02, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cult models 

message: A request for mediation was filed... and it appears that the discussion is happening on the main mediation page. --CyclePat 18:47, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mediation 

message: Is motorcycle scrambling a particularly British sport?  I'm surprised that there is no article about it?  I don't know anything about it other than what I see on TV, with bikes leaping from mound to mound with lots of mud everywhere.  Does it have a new name?  Like motorcycle BMX?  [shower of half bricks follow].  --Concrete Cowboy 18:09, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Found it!  Motocross.  --Concrete Cowboy 22:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If ooyu read the talk of scrambling you'll see how it was the old name for it, still used in the British press and some part of the UK Pickle 16:14, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motorcycle scrambling 

message: This article, especially the "Culture" section, is really written more from a "developed country" point of view, where motorcycles are associated with racing and stunts and tough guys in leather. There should be more information about motorcycles from a "developing country" point of view, where motorcycles are much more relevant, and more regarded as a legitimate mode of transportation. Coffee 18:43, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest that there are also many developed countries where motorcycles/scooters are regarded as legitimate forms of personal transportation - most of Europe for example.  The 'culture' of motorcycles differs somewhat from the usage of motorcycles (not unlike the manner in which the 'culture' of automobiles differs from their usage), and this section of the article perhaps reflects that?  You might consider starting a section on 'utilitization' in which information as you describe above would be included...  Saturn V 13:30, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most defiantly, due to vehicle listening laws in Europe particularly (in a developed world context) the usage of scooters, small cc bikes, etc is vast as its many people's fist wheels. Latter the trend is then for superbikes. In contrast America, young people skip the bike stage an go straight to cars, while at latter point the Harley style is very popular while superbikes are very rare. Pickle 16:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: I recommend that we move all the talk about gyroscopic effects, trail, steering countersteering, and stability into one section titled "Physics" as has been done in the Bicycle article. Any objections? AndrewDressel 13:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I did it. I also copied a little text on the subject from the bicycle article. That's allowed, right? AndrewDressel 06:05, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has all been moved to a new article, motorcycle physics, by Clawed AndrewDressel 12:27, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Physics 

message: Currently in the article is this line
:"Typical fuel effiency range from 25/45 mpg to 50/62 mpg (city/highway) (9.4/5.2 L/100km - 4.7/3.8 L/100km)" 
I believe this is too inaccurate and this and the reference should be removed as it does not represent a motorcycles worldwide. The website that is the reference has mostly larger motorcycles and does not seem to include smaller bikes such as 125cc bikes that dominate in many countries in asia and even 50cc scooters which are still motorcycles.--Clawed 00:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for converting to metric, but easy with the bath water, eh? I new it should be that way, but didn't have time this morning. As for smaller bikes, yes, I agree that we should have it, but I couldn't find a source. Can anyone else? -AndrewDressel 01:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I finally found a 50cc scooter reporting 2.2 L/100km and even a Honda XL125 with 470 mpg. -AndrewDressel 13:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fuel effieciency 

message: Something new to work on, eh? The link included with the tag does not include any specific suggestions, nor does the anonymous user who posted it. Any ideas?
*Is the definition somehow anglophone only? Should it also mention scooters? They fit the lead definition, but one does not "sits astride the vehicle" nor does one shift with a foot lever, etc.
*History? Is there one or more major contributor from a developing country?
*Construction seems safe enough?
*Fuel efficiency now includes a 50cc example from India, I believe, thanks to the dunning of Clawed. Maybe there are more examples, but I had a hard time finding even that one with Google. Manufacturers tend not to list fuel economy on their websites.
*Dynamics is neutral, I believe.
*Subcultures probably could use one or more non anglo example.
*Mobility specifically tries to be inclusive.
*Safety is "According to the US Highway Safety Authority". Any other sources.
*Types? Don't know.
-AndrewDressel 15:30, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't see how this article is of limited geographical scope, it has pictures of motorcycles from many countries and mentions motorcycling in many countries all over the world. Bob Palin 15:41, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, it seems a little harsh, but I hesitate to just remove the tab. Perhaps if someone could contribute something about safety in Asia.... -AndrewDressel 23:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worldwide View 

message: "Steering is accomplished at higher speeds through the rider shifting his or her weight on the motorcycle and at very low speeds by trained application of slight turning of the handlebars in conjuction with the shifting of weight." - UJKiller
This is in direct contradiction to the experimentation by Keith Code at the California Superbike School and reported in Popular Mechanics on February 1, 2001 . It needs a comparable supporting reference or it should come out. -AndrewDressel 01:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: -Nothing yet, so I took out the addition. -AndrewDressel 23:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

text: -Again, nothing, so out it comes. -AndrewDressel 20:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Andrew, just FYI, many people have been able to steer Code's fixed bar bike, he just chooses to ignore them Bob Palin 15:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent. As soon as one of them gets a report of their success published, we can mention it in this article. -AndrewDressel 23:05, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

text: -Again, an unsourced claim by an anonymous user. How does this leaning take place, I wonder? -AndrewDressel 22:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At a speed between staionary and lets say walking pace, how does a mototorcycle steer? M-72 11:56, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steering 

message: Last week I asked a question at Category talk:Motorcycles, but I don't think many people are watching that page so I'm coming here.  Right now, it seems kind of arbitrary what's put in :Category:Motorcycles versus :Category:Motorcycling, in terms of both articles and subcategories.  I'm thinking we should either merge the two, or put most things under Motorcycling and only articles about particular models under Motorcycles (and then make Motorcycles a subcat of Motorcycling).  If you're interested, please comment over at the category talk page.  Thanks.  --Allen 05:28, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  category question 

message: In this section it has a picture of a BMW r1200rt.  I don't consider this a full fairing. Maybe we need a better picture?
--Budlight 21:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fairing

message: There's a discussion under way on correct use of category tags at Category_talk:Motorcycles.  Brianhe 08:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Category tags discussion

message: Substituted at 21:44, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment