Talk:Faggots (novel)

message: ", with particular emphasis that Faggots is "sex-negative.""
That needs a source, as it seems the portrayal of lifestyle that was negatively received.sinneed (talk) 00:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Cutting to talk

message: ====Redirects to dab pages specific to plural forms====
*Bugs
*Guns - although this one is a totally ghetto dab page, that needs fixing
*Heavens
*Wheels
====Other====
*Cars/Cars (song)
*Stars/Stars (band)
:* Again, there are other things called "Cats" in the plural, "Cars" in the plural, "Stars" in the plural. There is nothing else called "Faggots" in the plural. Otto4711 (talk) 23:45, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: **You can make comments inline, or refactor the list to make it more useful, and to reflect what you're saying. I already have heard your point about there being nothing else called "Faggots", and I'm willing to be very attentive to that point. Are you willing to engage in this exercise, and help find other, more relevant examples? -GTBacchus(talk) 23:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Relevant?

message: *Cars/Cars (song)
*Stars/Stars (band)
:* Again, there are other things called "Cats" in the plural, "Cars" in the plural, "Stars" in the plural. There is nothing else called "Faggots" in the plural. Otto4711 (talk) 23:45, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: **You can make comments inline, or refactor the list to make it more useful, and to reflect what you're saying. I already have heard your point about there being nothing else called "Faggots", and I'm willing to be very attentive to that point. Are you willing to engage in this exercise, and help find other, more relevant examples? -GTBacchus(talk) 23:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Other

message: The purpose of these lists is not to count how many examples we can find on each "side", or something silly like that. I'm curious whether there is a good reason to redirect plural to singular in some cases and not in others, so I'm curious to see whether some kind of pattern emerges. Whatever else people see in there... cool. -GTBacchus(talk) 01:05, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: GTBacchus, while I appreciate the amount of effort involved here, it looks like a good case for a more general discussion on the point that we agree exists. For this specific case, I think it might be a distraction. I think it would do better as a discussion on the Village Pump or on the MOS discussion page. Of course, my opinion for this page is already a matter of record. — Gavia immer (talk) 19:47, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it's worth bringing to a wider audience. I have got a reason for doing this here, however. I suspect that there exist good criteria to separate two cases: redirecting the plural to the singular, or pointing it to a unique proper noun. I've never thought about this issue before (in hundreds of page moves), and I'm curious about it. If something clear emerges from this list, and we can say, "Ah, we'll do it one way in case ABC, and another way in case XYZ..." - if something like that happens, then we could apply it to this article now. I think I indicated support for the move above, but I ultimately don't care about this page. I'm interested in the principle of the thing, and when I see a particular case, my instinct is to find a relevant principle, and go ahead and apply it.  It's also not so much effort. It's kind of fun - try typing in a few common nouns, and see what comes up. What I've learned so far is that neither "side" can claim that their interpretation of our guidelines is applied consistently. -GTBacchus(talk) 23:45, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Further discussion

message: Re the now-closed Requested move discussion, and in case this ever comes up again, it is erroneous to describe Faggots as a "little-regarded novel" as GTBacchus did, or to imply that it's obscure. On the contrary, the novel is a culturally, historically, and aesthetically significant portrait of a now-vanished world. "Faggots" was notable at the time and remains notable because it accurately and vividly portrays the peak of "fast track" gay life, immediately prior to its termination by the AIDS epidemic. Kramer's maniacally detailed descriptions of drug-fueled hyper-sexuality are taken from his direct experience of 1970s gay New York, and his characters ring true because they're thinly disguised friends and acquaintances. Upon its release "Faggots" was banned by New York's only gay bookstore, surely a measure of its notability. According to the same WP topic, the book "became one of the best-selling gay novels of all time," and "has never been out of publication and is often taught in gay studies classes."
"A book of major historical importance-the first contemporary novel to chronicle gay life with unsparing honesty and wild humor." —Erica Jong
"There are few books in modern gay fiction, or modern fiction for that matter, that must be read. Faggots is certainly one of them." —Tony Kushner
"His uncannily foresighted novel Faggots appeared in 1978 just as the AIDS virus flooded whole wings of the American bloodstream; now its Swiftian portrait of an all but vanished subculture stands as that culture's visible memorial." —The American Academy of Arts and Letters May 1996 Victimofleisure (talk) 21:14, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culturally, historically, and aesthetically significant