Talk:Doctor of Philosophy/Archive 2

message: Under the US portion the text reads "However, in recent years, in light of large scale faculty retirement in North American universities and colleges, academic employment prospects for freshly minted PhD graduates are improving."
I have a hard time believing this is true in a general enough sense that it can be stated.  Does anyone have any figures?  The overproduction of PhD's in physics, biology and other scientific areas has been well documented for decades and, as far as I know, continues to this day.  If there is no source saying otherwise, I'd like to remove this quote.PitOfBabel 08:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the Occupational Outlook Handbook (published by the US bureau of labor statistics) lists professor jobs as growing "much faster than average" over the next few years. In addition, In a recent article (by money magazine, I think--I'll look for it), "college professor" was listed as the number 2 "best" job to have in terms of future market growth. I can't speak for industry-related Ph.D. jobs, but the outlook for academics is good. -Nicktalk 17:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  That is so far out of touch with what new Ph.D.'s are seeing that it is ridiculous.   Roadrunner 23:46, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

text: You are right, the Handbook says just that.  However, it also says most of those positions are in part time work and that "competition will remain tight for tenure-track positions at 4-year colleges and universities."  Part time university positions constitute a horrific return on the investment needed to obtain a PhD, and are a direct result of the vast overproduction of PhD's over the past twenty years.  While I won't be looking for academic employment soon (if ever), those around me doing so are having a terrible time.  Obviously this does depend on their choice of study, but the fact that how good your prospects are depends so heavily on what you studied is enough to make the statement from the article I quoted deserving of suspicion.  Thanks for your response, I welcome the discussion, and if you still feel the statement holds I'll happily leave it.  I would appreciate my dissent staying in the talk section. PitOfBabel 20:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Removed the statement.  It is **sooooo** out of touch with what anyone in the field sees, that I don't think it should be left in.  Roadrunner 23:46, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I'll try not to get too emotional about this, but giving the impression that the jobs market for Ph.D.'s "is improving" is so out of touch with the reality in front of me, that I think it is misleading to put in it without qualification.  Roadrunner 23:48, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

text:  If you want citable sources.  There are about a dozen at http://www.phds.org/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roadrunner (talk • contribs) 23:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Job Prospect of US PhD's

message: My comment about the bureau of labor statistics noting the increasingly part time nature of new PhD university jobs was removed.  It shouldn't be.  The occupational handbook is often used as an example of how professor jobs are growing "much faster than average."  Including only that information is deceptive - the jobs are increasing faster than average, but this has been done by way of reducing the average quality of those jobs.  I believe that the handbook failed by not addressing this issue more directly, but others might disagree.  Those reading the article need to have both sides pointed out.  
One possibility for shortening that sentence is to move the last part that was deleted back to where the Bureau handbook was first mentioned.  The sentence probably also needs to use more accurate wording.  However, the information it contains should not be removed.PitOfBabel 15:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll try not to get too emotional about this, but giving the impression that the jobs market for Ph.D.'s "is improving" is so out of touch with the reality in front of me, that I think it is misleading to put in it without qualification.  Roadrunner 23:48, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you want citable sources.  There are about a dozen at http://www.phds.org/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roadrunner (talk • contribs) 23:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: September 2007 Bureau of labor statistics

message: Students may also take part in tutoring, work as research assistants, or (occasionally) deliver lectures, at a rate of typically GBP10 per hour, either to supplement existing income or as a sole means of funding
Just how typical is this figure? The University of Birmingham pays nearer £13/hour. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.36.73.10 (talk) 14:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK Funding 

message: I have been reading Doctor (title) and Doctor of Philosophy and both pages are more or less the same. ¿Anybody else thinks that is worthy to merge them? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Juansempere (talk • contribs) 22:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think this is a good idea. I also don't think the similarities are that great, but further differentiating the articles isn't necessarily a bad idea. JJL 00:17, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also disagree with the merge on the basis that it is inaccurate. One who holds a doctorate is referred to as "doctor." A Ph.D. is only one of many forms of doctorates. Perhaps it would be better to look at merging Doctor (title) with Doctorate. -Nicktalk 02:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal of merge 

message: This needs a source I would say, especially as other books give different years. Any suggestions? Glennh70 19:43, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PhDs spread to the UK in 1921? 

message: Someone has placed the worldwide view tag on this article. I thought we covered different parts of the world quite well, but I thought I'd take a look and see what we missed. Although we only talk about english speaking countries (and france) in the article, I found that many, many universities across the globe award "Ph.D. degrees." I visited the websites of universities in China, Japan, Iran, Egypt, Kenya, and South Africa, and found them all to state that they award "Ph.D." or "Doctor of Philosophy" degrees. I mentioned this in the intro, but more should probably be added. Because the specfics of Ph.D.s differ so much by country, this page might get unweildy if too many countries are discussed, so despite the need for a worldwide view, we should probably stick to engligh-language countries (as this is the english language wikipedia), or break each country's section into its own article, leaving this page as a short overview of Ph.D.s. -Nicktalk 23:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a semantic problem that needs to be addressed:  in most countries where English is not the official language, people who complete doctoral work in, say, geology or comparative literature, are not identified as "doctors of philosophy."  Only philosophers are called doctors of philosophy.  On the other hand, research doctorates worldwide are now patterned on Anglophone Ph.D.'s (i.e., they require at least three years of residence after having received a first degree, advanced coursework, and the composition and defense of a thesis containing original research) and are essentially equivalent to them in all but name.  Therefore in English people often call them Ph.D.'s.  I'm not against them being covered in the same article as Anglophone Ph.D.'s, but the situation should be explained clearly.  Also, I personally would prefer calling the article "Research Doctorate," rather than "Doctor of Philosophy." This would definitely be a plus from the the "worldwide view" perspective. -- Eb.hoop 03:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Per your last point, most degrees have their own pages, so a Ph.D. specific page is a must; however, a separate research doctorate page would be nice (although there is a "research doctorate" section at doctorate). As for the worldwide view, if non-english-speaking countries typically do not award "Doctor of Philosophy" degrees, then this article does, in fact, cover the global scope of the Ph.D. Simply put, if Russian universities (for example) do not award the Ph.D. specifically, then it should not be covered in this article, as this article specifically covers "Doctor of Philosophy" degrees, and not "all degrees similar or equivalent to Ph.D.s." If, however, the Ph.D. is specifically a philosophy degree awarded in other countries, that is worthy of note. -Nicktalk 05:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm worried that the introduction to this article is getting a bit abstract. I'm all for global and historical perspective, but I am more concerned with understanding what readers of en.wikipedia.org are looking for when they search for "Ph.D." and giving it to them in a clear manner. As such, I have a few suggestions: First, a good chunk of the intro (most of the second paragraph) is historical context--why not move it into the history section? Most wikipedia articles focus on the current state of the subject, and constrain most if not all of the historical context to a separate section. It's not that I think the history is unimportant, but I think such a move would make the intro easier to read. Second, there is a "comparative" context (i.e. the worldwide perspective) to this article that I also think might be bogging things down. To resolve this, I suggest that the intro provide a concise definition of Ph.D. as it most commonly exists (advanced research degree awarded in multiple fields of study). Then, we move the comparative stuff to a new section that we create ("Ph.D.s across the globe," or something like that). All of the country-specific sections can then be relocated to subsections under this new heading. (I will move the sections on the article to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.)-Nicktalk 17:06, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right.  I've tried to address some of your concerns about the intro.  Both this article and the one on the Doctorate need serious work, which I don't feel up to. -- Eb.hoop 04:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

text: It's true that these articles need more work. Nonetheless, your edits on this page have helped quite a bit--the article reads much better now. -Nicktalk 06:34, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worldwide view 

message: Article says: "Although specific requirements vary, programs at well-regarded research-oriented universities usually require significantly more of their applicants."
Looks like an incomplete sentence.  Would someone care to complete it?  Thanks. --Eamonnca1 18:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: US Admission

message: 'While the Ph.D. is the most common doctoral degree in the United States, it is often misunderstood to be synonymous with the term "doctorate".'
The following sentence seems to imply that it is improper to call a PhD a "doctorate".  The article to which this sentence links defines a PhD as a "research doctorate" and seems to be contradictory.  Does anyone have any input?71.232.158.52 14:06, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I presume you meant the preceding sentence. I don't actually find it misleading- what it says is that the terms "PhD" and "doctorate" are not synonymous, which is manifestly true. Some men are Martians, but that doesn't mean that all Martians are men. Badgerpatrol 14:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Doctorate

message: I would argue against some of the terms being used in the discussion and the article.
Dissertations and Theses should not be used together, as they mean completely different things.
The correct usage is that dissertations are for Masters degrees, and theses for Doctorate.
===Dissertation===
When studying for a Masters, you submit a Dissertation. The literal meaning of which is a discussion
about published material based on a theme or subject of study. These are usally about 10,000 pages long.
When studying for my Masters, I had to pick a subject, and write a dissertation, where any conclusions
had to be backed up with published materials and references.
===Thesis===
When studying for a doctorate you submit a thesis. This is an academic publication on a area of original research.
The student will have submitted a theory to the board for consideration. 
If accepted they then reseach thier theorm. The written thesis is then a documentation of the theory, what the expected results are, what experiments were performed and under what conditions, the results, the evaluation of the results, references and other works to justify the conclusions to the results, and finally the conclusion.
Theses are usally of book length (over 100,000 words) and if of exceptional quality are usually published.
The last part is then justifying to the board the conclusion of the thesis. The board do not have to agree with your conclusions, only in the scientific approach to the thesis.
Mat macwilliam 17:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know where you are from, so perhaps this is true in your country. However, in the US, theses are typically associated with master's degrees, and dissertations are associated with doctorates. I'd suggest leaving both terms in the intro. -Nicktalk 19:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. JJL 20:18, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

text: My understanding is that, strictly speaking, the thesis is the main point or argument being postulated or discussed, and the dissertation is the physical, bound sheaf of paper in which this discussion is written up - but in practice the former term has also come to be widely used with the latter meaning too.  Given that usage varies throughout the world, and since wikipedia is supposed to be an international encyclopaedia, I think both terms should be mentioned. -- Nicholas Jackson 23:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I should also note that the  dictionary defines dissertations as pertaining to doctoral degrees. -Nicktalk 19:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I should have noted that I am English, and speaking the language as a native speaker. The only dictionary definitions I would accept are English dictionaries. It is a well known fact Americans cannot speak, spell, or write English in a coherant and senesible manner. I will look up dissertation and thesis in the Oxford English Dictionary. Mat macwilliam 18:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I can vouch for the fact that the English language as writtin [sic] by those in The United States [sic] is significantly different to that spoken and written in the United Kingdom. Badgerpatrol 12:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Incidentally the terms are defined at real universities (lookup Wikipedia entries on Ancient and Red-Brick for my definition of real), as dissertation for Masters and thesis for Doctoral. I do not not care what American or Plate-Glass or ex-Polytechnic universities call them, as a degree from these is not worth the paper it is written on. Mat macwilliam 18:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is at this point that I should also point out that I cannot spell. Mat macwilliam 18:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Here is the relevant OED entry for thesis: 5. A dissertation to maintain and prove a thesis (in sense 4); esp. one written or delivered by a candidate for a University degree. Here is the relevant OED entry for dissertation:  [2.] b. spec. An extended scholarly essay, usu. based upon original research, submitted for a degree or other academic qualification. The OED does not differentiate the terms by masters and doctoral level degrees. And Mat, keep your POV rhetoric to a minimum. -Nicktalk 19:12, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is at times like this I like to quote George Bernard Shaw 'England and America are two countries separated by a common language'. Koos 12:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone who claims to be a "native speaker of English" should know how to spell "coherent" , don't you think ? 161.24.19.82 19:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A senesible point!  (A point that is growing old?)  Australian usage is thesis for both Masters and PhD - are there any takers for dissertation all around?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaded-view (talk • contribs) 04:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I can't speak for the rest of the world, but PhD dissertation is not a widely used descriptor in the UK imho, where I've only ever heard a submission for a doctorate referred to as a thesis. It is more common to use "dissertation" for undergraduate honours reports and sometimes Master's level degrees. I'm surprised that the term is standard on (for example) UCD and Oxford's websites, but I take your word for it (although I note that in Oxford's official examination regulations, the word "thesis" is used throughout, and it seems to actively differentiate between a Dphil "thesis" and a master's "dissertation" at one point). "PhD thesis" (the exact form of the query as written) = 2.74 million total hits, with 0.967 million from the UK only; "PhD dissertation" = 1.03 million total, with 0.108 million from the UK only. This may be down to local differences or perhaps just personal experience, who knows. However, as you correctly state, the terms are interchangeable and mean virtually exactly the same thing whichever way we look at it, so it isn't an issue anyway. Badgerpatrol 04:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that, in the US, the final document submitted for examination by a PhD candidate is officially called a dissertation in most, if not all universities, although students and professors may also refer to it informally as a thesis. In the UK on the other hand, with a few exceptions (most notably Oxford), the term "thesis" is used both formally and informally to refer to doctoral work. 200.177.21.122 11:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thesis vs Dissertation 

message: When studying for a doctorate you submit a thesis. This is an academic publication on a area of original research.
The student will have submitted a theory to the board for consideration. 
If accepted they then reseach thier theorm. The written thesis is then a documentation of the theory, what the expected results are, what experiments were performed and under what conditions, the results, the evaluation of the results, references and other works to justify the conclusions to the results, and finally the conclusion.
Theses are usally of book length (over 100,000 words) and if of exceptional quality are usually published.
The last part is then justifying to the board the conclusion of the thesis. The board do not have to agree with your conclusions, only in the scientific approach to the thesis.
Mat macwilliam 17:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Thesis

message: :I don't know where you are from, so perhaps this is true in your country. However, in the US, theses are typically associated with master's degrees, and dissertations are associated with doctorates. I'd suggest leaving both terms in the intro. -Nicktalk 19:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. JJL 20:18, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that, strictly speaking, the thesis is the main point or argument being postulated or discussed, and the dissertation is the physical, bound sheaf of paper in which this discussion is written up - but in practice the former term has also come to be widely used with the latter meaning too.  Given that usage varies throughout the world, and since wikipedia is supposed to be an international encyclopaedia, I think both terms should be mentioned. -- Nicholas Jackson 23:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I should also note that the  dictionary defines dissertations as pertaining to doctoral degrees. -Nicktalk 19:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I should have noted that I am English, and speaking the language as a native speaker. The only dictionary definitions I would accept are English dictionaries. It is a well known fact Americans cannot speak, spell, or write English in a coherant and senesible manner. I will look up dissertation and thesis in the Oxford English Dictionary. Mat macwilliam 18:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I can vouch for the fact that the English language as writtin [sic] by those in The United States [sic] is significantly different to that spoken and written in the United Kingdom. Badgerpatrol 12:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Incidentally the terms are defined at real universities (lookup Wikipedia entries on Ancient and Red-Brick for my definition of real), as dissertation for Masters and thesis for Doctoral. I do not not care what American or Plate-Glass or ex-Polytechnic universities call them, as a degree from these is not worth the paper it is written on. Mat macwilliam 18:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is at this point that I should also point out that I cannot spell. Mat macwilliam 18:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Here is the relevant OED entry for thesis: 5. A dissertation to maintain and prove a thesis (in sense 4); esp. one written or delivered by a candidate for a University degree. Here is the relevant OED entry for dissertation:  [2.] b. spec. An extended scholarly essay, usu. based upon original research, submitted for a degree or other academic qualification. The OED does not differentiate the terms by masters and doctoral level degrees. And Mat, keep your POV rhetoric to a minimum. -Nicktalk 19:12, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is at times like this I like to quote George Bernard Shaw 'England and America are two countries separated by a common language'. Koos 12:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone who claims to be a "native speaker of English" should know how to spell "coherent" , don't you think ? 161.24.19.82 19:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A senesible point!  (A point that is growing old?)  Australian usage is thesis for both Masters and PhD - are there any takers for dissertation all around?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaded-view (talk • contribs) 04:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: Out of curiosity, I looked at the websites for various schools: University of New South Wales (Australia), University College Dublin (Ireland), McGill (Canada), and Oxford (England). All of these schools referenced "doctoral dissertations" and used the term "dissertation" to refer to a Ph.D. level thesis. Thus, I don't think this is just a US thing, unless someone (e.g., the original poster) can provide a cite proving the contrary. I edited the article to use the term "dissertation," as that seems to be the international english-language standard. It is merely a matter of semantics, as there is no real difference between a thesis and dissertation, but we should use the most common terms. -Nicktalk 03:03, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't speak for the rest of the world, but PhD dissertation is not a widely used descriptor in the UK imho, where I've only ever heard a submission for a doctorate referred to as a thesis. It is more common to use "dissertation" for undergraduate honours reports and sometimes Master's level degrees. I'm surprised that the term is standard on (for example) UCD and Oxford's websites, but I take your word for it (although I note that in Oxford's official examination regulations, the word "thesis" is used throughout, and it seems to actively differentiate between a Dphil "thesis" and a master's "dissertation" at one point). "PhD thesis" (the exact form of the query as written) = 2.74 million total hits, with 0.967 million from the UK only; "PhD dissertation" = 1.03 million total, with 0.108 million from the UK only. This may be down to local differences or perhaps just personal experience, who knows. However, as you correctly state, the terms are interchangeable and mean virtually exactly the same thing whichever way we look at it, so it isn't an issue anyway. Badgerpatrol 04:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that, in the US, the final document submitted for examination by a PhD candidate is officially called a dissertation in most, if not all universities, although students and professors may also refer to it informally as a thesis. In the UK on the other hand, with a few exceptions (most notably Oxford), the term "thesis" is used both formally and informally to refer to doctoral work. 200.177.21.122 11:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: T vs D; International standard

message: Apologies to any social scientists or those from the humanities – you will dislike reading what I have to post here (it refers to apolitical decision making processes).  
However, I have always felt that the ideals of mathematics usually go beyond those of other subjects – requiring something in the way of the scientific (and perhaps even psychometric) testing of young mathematicians in order to ensure that they have at least a basic command of universially taught mathematical material.  It seems only good and fair to me (and anyone else with common sense) that, if  PhD is to be assigned, there should be at least some test-taking/pen-and-paper testing format to make sure that students are purely chosen based upon merit.  
I would have certainly thought that there would be some concreted examination component to the UK/US mathematics degree – standardised testing along the lines of GCSEs and A-levels, except at a much higher level.  The last thing anyone would want to see is a Mathematics PhD student who can't tell you Gauss' or Green's theorem straight off the top of their head....
Of course, the same goes for SET degrees too.  
ConcernedScientist 11:51, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say, but in the US at least, PhD candidates are required to pass a minimum number of graduate-level classes (usually with a grade 'B' or higher) and must also pass a series of preliminary qualifying exams where their knowledge of "universally taught mathematical material" is throughly tested. It is very unlikely that a person  might graduate from a top US university with a PhD degree in pure math without knowing the fundamentals of graduate-level algebra, geometry, and analysis. In Europe on the other hand, PhD students do not normally take classes and work instead full-time on their theses (and possibly associated research papers). In order to reach that level however, extensive prior formal training in the fundamentals of mathematics is required. For example, at Cambridge, all incoming PhD students in pure or applied math are required to have a qualification comparable to the university's own Certificate of Advanced Studies in Mathematics, which would be considered a very rigorous graduate-level education by American standards. In France on the other hand, one must first obtain a D.E.A. (("diplôme d'études approfondies") or, in the new Bologna system, a  "master recherche" prior to beginning thesis work. Generally speaking, the level of a French math student who holds an "ingénieur" degree from , for example, "L'École Polytechnique", and subsequently obtains a D.E.A or "master recherche" is comparable to or higher than that of a US PhD student who has just passed his/her qualifying exam. Overall, I believe that in most major countries (the US, the UK, France, Germany, Russia, etc.), Math PhDs/doctors are well grounded in the fundamentals. Quality may vary though in Third World countries.  Toeplitz 17:35, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mathematics, the PhD and ASSESSMENT

message: I find it odd that there are only three book references listed at the end of this article, when there is now a large literature on this topic. I may add more to the list. It might also be worth pointing out how there are courses available to tutors who wish to do Ph.D. supervision, such as the Postgraduate Certificate in Research Degree Supervision with which I am currently enrolled at the university where I teach; or at least, to indicate that there is now a large literature to help Ph.D. supervisors. ACEOREVIVED 19:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: List of references too meagre

message: I read an interesting article nearly two years ago in a Church of Ireland magazine by Rev Patrick Comerford. The gist of this was that there are a lot of bogus PhDs around, normally offered by equally bogus "universities" but sometimes by rather outré churches in the USA, which appear to find it slightly easier to get round banning legislation than do "colleges". In sme cases the "doctorates" do not demand any great academic achievement; in other cases, you simply pay a few dollars and get an impressive certificate. Unfortunately it would be wrong to describe these as useless (though they might be worthless) because they can be used to hoodwink employers and others. I do not know enough about this to put a paragraph into the main article, but it might be useful. Millbanks 23:07, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's interesting. I do think we should note in the articles that not all PhDs are equal, and that people should watch out for "diploma mills" and non-accredited "universities." I've never heard of a church offering an academic degree. Did this article give any examples? I'm interested to look into them. -Nicktalk 23:59, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bogus PhDs

message: My initial enquiriies about the above have shown me what a complex subject it is.
First, the PhD is one of many doctorates. There are Doctors of Science, Theology, Letters, Divinity, Medicine etc. 
Second, many people call themselves "doctor" without having a doctorate. The obvious example are medical practitioners in the UK and Ireland. (But in Germany, for example, a medical practitioner would not be called Doktor unless s/he had a doctorate).
Third there are honorary doctorates. For example I think that Ian Paisley has one from Bob Jones University in South Carolina. The former Governor General of Australia, and Archbishop of Brisbane, Peter Hollingworth, has six honorary doctorates, plus a DLitt, a Lambeth degree awarded him by the Archbishop of Canterbury, DR Carey. (This is apparently not an honorary doctorate, but an award).
Fourth, there are of course bogus and substandard ones, as there are degrees, MBAs, etc.Millbanks 07:52, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Doctorates