Talk:Chilean cruiser Esmeralda (1883)

message: Possible image:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/artists/edoardo-de-martino
©Geni 19:32, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The ship is referred to as both she and its in the article. I went through the article history and saw that the article started out in this confused manner and therefore request guidance in which to use before changing anything. Llammakey (talk) 11:58, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Its or She 

message: Brooks, Warships for Export, remarks that The Times "printed a lengthy article at the time of her speed trials written anonymously by W H White, Armstrong's chief naval architect." Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 20:42, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible source 

message: I came across a passing reference to Esmerala having an unsheathed hull, but thought the details about the amount of maintenance required to keel the hull clean was interesting - see page 30 here (and you can crib the full ref from  if you want to include it - it's the one for Hichborn). Parsecboy (talk) 12:16, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, ! I've added a sentence on this. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:55, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool, glad it was useful! Parsecboy (talk) 22:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsheathed hull 

message: @The ed17, I disagree with this reversion by you. Per WP:PRONOUN, "Gender-neutral pronouns should be used (or pronouns avoided) where gendered language is not necessary, and especially when gender is not specific or unknown." That is not the case in the sentence "Rendel gave Esmeralda large ten-inch (254 mm) guns and a high speed so its captain could choose the range they wanted to fight at." Women could not serve in the Chilean Navy until 2018 (). We therefore know that any captain of the 1880s Esmeralda must have been male. Using the gender-neutral pronoun "they" is therefore misleading, as it conveys the opposite impression, which will confuse readers.  Sandstein  18:11, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi there. I'm surprised to see that you believe this is a big deal, but you quoted the relevant guideline yourself: "" It's not necessary to use gendered language in that sentence, as no additional understanding of the topic is imparted by using male pronouns. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:27, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: But the use of non-gendered pronouns ("they") imparts a misunderstanding of the topic, in that it falsely implies that the Chilean Navy commissioned people of either gender to captain their warships. I'll ask for a third opinion.  Sandstein  21:02, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the definition of "they," which can and often is used to generically refer to people. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:23, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Our article Singular they tells us: "Singular they (...) is a gender-neutral third-person pronoun." The reason for which we use such pronouns is if we want to refer to a person of any gender, which is not the case here. MOS:S/HE provides: "Use gender-neutral language (...) if this can be done with clarity and precision." Because we know that all possible captains of this warship would have been male, "they" is less precise than "he", and therefore the use of "they" violates our manual of style.  Sandstein  21:32, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

text: That's fine with me.  Sandstein  05:47, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

text: That works for me as well. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 16:08, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:PRONOUN]] disagreement 

message: US National Archives Identifier 177104145 Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 14:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ship plans (but only the index)