Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog (character)/Archive 5

message: Look, the section is way too long. Being these characters are "supporting characters" it'd be expected that their relationships with Sonic be detailed further in their own wiki pages with perhaps no more than a couple of sentences at most explaining a general idea of their relationships to Sonic on his page. Also, this only explains the relations Sonic's had in the Japanese/newage depictions of Sonic. SonicMobius 20:37, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Friends/Rivals/Enemies/etc 

message: In Jingle All The Way, someone is just wearing a Sonic costume so I don't think it should be considered as an actual appearance. Dark Rain
Yeah that's true.Themasterofwiki 17:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jingle All The Way? 

message: I noticed the Associated songs section is missing all the songs from the Sonic CD soundtrack, from both the Japanese and US releases. Maybe they should be added. The songs are "Sonic - You Can Do Anything" and "Cosmic Eternity - Believe In Yourself" by Keiko Utoku from the Japanese CD and the theme from the US release was "Sonic Boom" which was performed by Pastiche. Petros86 18:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Associated songs 

message: we should mention he got a star in walk of game--Superbub 02:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  walk of game star 

message: In Sonic the hedgehog next gen is it true that Sonic died and call me Sonic pleaseSonicrules2 03:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The death 

message: Isn't there some sorta Sonic Online thing that was created with Halo I find this really really weird.Themasterofwiki 17:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic Online 

message: why should we rely on concept mobius for the official info for the game articles whean their for Archie comics only? that's dosen't make sence.
--Sonicobbsessed-The Self-Proclamed Ultamate Sonic Fan 22:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: /me laughs. Try visiting the site. —davidh.oz.au 01:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Mobius was Sonic's official home in the U.S. up until Sonic Adventure.  The comics have since retconned it into being a future Earth.GrandMasterGalvatron 18:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: After actually going to this "Project Mobius" place, it has now become one of my favorite sites. That place is great. But my comment had little to do with the site... it was about some talk about the setting of a few sonic games. Masterotenko 18:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cocept Mobius-
for archie, NOT THE GAMES!!!
 

message: I may be young to be complaining about tjis, but, this character has been somethin i have been well knowleged to since a vey young age. and i noticed a laerge suppply of in accurate inforation on him. and no mention that officially, the english storyline is different from the american one, and that in japan there are two, one that was originally intended for more adult fans. without accounting for these differences, such as orriginally in england there were no fredom fighters, and Sally and the royal family were never shown. but that was origianlly to remove the personal relations from the main storyline, than the games and american comics. including the reason why sonic now keeps away from deep personal relations, i.e. wen Sally Acorn met her maker, but later on returned. Also the difference btween earth and mobius is more than just time. And the obvious feelings he does have for amythat he will likely never act apon, these were shown at some points in the games. These feelings though seemed to have developed more on earth. If given the chance there are many correction that most could make that olny the real fanatics (upto you if that a good or bad thing) could make.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chaosa (talk • contribs) 11:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  In accuracy 

message: LuigiManiac, I know because it had been said by Sonic Team countless times! 207.74.196.20 16:59, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'll tell ya! 

message: Now, I saw some guy replace all the 06 images with the Channel ones.  I personally didn't think it was a bad idea.
However, what I'd suggest is that the Shadow the Hedgehog images be used.  The reason being is that those exact same models were used again in Rivals, and 06s models seem to be a one time occurrence.  Not only that, but the Rivals artwork also has new models in the Shadow style for Metal Sonic, Silver, and Eggman Nega.  I'd say the fact that Secret Rings abandoned the "realistic" style of Sonic the Hedgehog, Rivals reused the Shadow art and added to it, and Yogiro Ogawa (I think that's his name) himself said that the "realistic" style doesn't fit with Sonic is more than enough evidence for the time being that that style is gonna be the official standard for a good long while.
So my suggestions on main art would be:
*1. If character has official art from Rivals, use that as it's the latest.
*2. If character fails #1, use Shadow the Hedgehog art as that uses the same style.
*3. If character fails #2, use the Sonic Channel artwork as those are the latest renders available.  
*4. if character fails #3, use the latest art released for that character.
*5. If character fails all of the above, use an in game screenshot of said character.  This would apply mostly to super forms and older characters.  Though the super forms of old should use their in game final pose or something similar.
Comments, objections?GrandMasterGalvatron 15:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a bad idea at all. Though where can we find Rivals artwork? Gurko 15:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I have some of the Rivals art on my home PC which were take from flash files in the official websites.  The art is also scattered across various Sonic message boards.  Also, you can check the SEGA FTP, or get it off the official sites yourself.  Lastly, I'm sure there's some pieces in Sonic, Shadow, and Metal's edit history.GrandMasterGalvatron 15:39, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Correction. Rush uses Channel artwork.  Rivals uses the Shadow models.GrandMasterGalvatron 22:11, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I never said there were less channel renders.  You just mentioned the wrong game >_>GrandMasterGalvatron 18:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

text: *looks at links* I mean the story art genius! XD  Note that it's also official art for the game.  I could care less about the little card extras.GrandMasterGalvatron 19:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

text: That was an example.  I have the full renders for that game.  Also note it's the same style for Shadow the Hedgehog which means that the Chaotix have some as well in addition to Omega using his Heroes Art.  I also have permission to use that sheet so cut that blather.  In addition, the Super Silver thing was adherence to policy.  Those two halfwits outright refused to accept that same reasoning for Super Tails and Super Knuckles so I forced them to heed their words and do the same for Super Silver.  Just like I'm forcing these other two halfwits to heed their words and AfD/merge then entire series of Sonic articles.  There were common problems across the series and I'll be damned if one takes the fall for it and others get off for the same offense.  
Anywho, I don't oppose using the Channel art either.  I suggested the Shadow/Rivals art because it looks better, but now you have an X factor: Metal Sonic.GrandMasterGalvatron 21:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh you're fine.  It's been me who's been flying off the handle lately.  Anywho, that was what I suggested: Those who have 3d art in this style should use it as the style has been used multiple times, and all others default to Channel art, and then so on and on.  Again, the use of the 3D art is a personal preference for a good visual appeal, but it more people wanna immediately default to the channel art then that's cool too.GrandMasterGalvatron 03:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

text: That may be, but it's only for one game, and the style has already been abandoned.  The only exception I could see would be Omega, but I'll let Eriorguez make the final call.GrandMasterGalvatron 03:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

text: That's true, but notice that Secret Rings abandoned the "realistic" style of 06 and went back to the Adventure Era looks.  Even Eggman's his old' fat self again.  In addition, Yogiro Owaga (head of Secret Rings) has said that he personally doesn't like the 06 style and finds it unfitting.  Those seem to be good reasons not to use that style as the main images as it seems to be a one time thing.  I've already said my piece though so I'll leave it up to you lot.GrandMasterGalvatron 03:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headlining Images 

message: i think there should be a section about "mario vs sonic" in this article as it was such a big question among gamers in the 90's. or maybe even mario vs sonic as an article on its own telling stuff like how mario could win, how sonic could win, popularity and other stuff. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.218.92.64 (talk) 01:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a bad idea; for now, I've added Mario to the See Also section.  Maybe such a section would be better suited for the Sonic series article, though. Paul Haymon 22:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Which character is afraid of oranges? --LuigiManiac 02:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  mario vs sonic 

message: paste subsection order (games>STH TV>AOSTH>etc)  AND only list important in-universe history -> stuff like how Sonic met his closest friends or enemies, how Shadow was created, how Sonic and Eggman have been going at it since before the games started, but do it in chronological order (to the best of ability in respect to plotholes): Sonic was battleing Eggman before the first game, he met Tails in STH2 and started using Super transformation... learned Chaos Control from Shadow in SA2... etc. Just please do not just summerize every single game a character has appeared in (basically think about how an event impacts the future of the series, the series doesn't reflect back on individual games too much so be strict)
Then all the "See Also" "References" and "Links" stuff to finish it off
I like this format, it starts with the real stuff then slowly segues into character stuff ending with how the above affects (in universe) events, but i like to hear others' opinions too. Cigraphix 04:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed many characters (like Knuckles) have little to no nonfictional info, I did a test reorg on Sonic, Tails and Knuckles - if anyone doesn't like it just fix it - if it is liked I'll look into fixing them further for uniformity and doing other characters Cigraphix 02:27, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History (fictional)

message: Can someone copyedit this paragraph, or else remove it if it's unneeded?  It's the final paragraph in the Abilities section:
Upon going under extreme stress and anger in Sonic X, Sonic transforms into "Dark Super Sonic", an ascended form of Sonic going out of control. Powered by hatred and anger, this form has all the abilities of Super Sonic, but in an evil way.  Surprisingly, Sonic needs no Chaos Emeralds to do this (although he was surrounded by the Meterax's Artficial Emeralds, which may of being the fuel of Dark Super Sonic, combined with his anger).  Dark Sonic is similar to Fleetway's Sonic the Comic's Super Sonic. The difference aside from being able to be Dark Super Sonic without Chaos Emeralds is that as Evil Super Sonic, Sonic has no control whatsoever. As Dark Super Sonic, he can control himself from destroying an ally or friend.
I'd do it myself, but I don't watch Sonic X, and so my edit might not be accurate.  Thanks. Paul Haymon 22:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed it entirely. There are many bits of the article that need condensing because they go into far too much detail about one particular aspect of the character, featured in only one of his appearances. (Dare I use the word fancruft?) The article should really focus on more general summaries and overviews. --Nick RTalk 19:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit 

message: Hmm, I'm not sure what to do with these sections.  Abilities mentions Sonic's fear of water, but hydrophobia isn't exactly what I'd call an "ability".  However, the Hydrophobia section is not very well written, and seems a bit unencyclopedic, as well as out of place.  I'd like to merge the two somehow, but I'm not sure how.  Input?  Thanks. Paul Haymon 22:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that's news to me, and beside the point.  What about merging the sections? Paul Haymon 04:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But wait a minute...he likes the ocean YET he can't swim...anyone hear the word IRONY being yelled out at this? Mialover730 08:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, yes I can.  --Luigifan 11:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, thanks, and thanks for the other edit also. Paul Haymon 00:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hydrophobia/Abilities 

message: It's pointless, and is simply there for people to submit their wacked out theories that contain huge amounts of speculation, stuff without basis that they just made up, and simple inaccuracies. -Chao9999 06:40, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it's there to mention how Sonic has fulfilled various prophecies throughout the games (ex. Angel Island Mural, Iblis Trigger, Legendary Blue Hedgehog, etc.)  I'm putting it back in.  --Luigifan 14:44, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. Chao9999, please stop with this attitude of yours. You seem to think your POV on the story is the only correct one.--HellCat86 14:46, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh, not hellcat again. The last time you criticized me Hellcat, I believe it was because I removed the part in this same section that stated that Sonic is the "destined controller of chaos". Back off with the pointless insults,and listen:
1. Almost everything stated in that section either doesn't contribute to the article, can be found somewhere else, or is speculation.
2. The thing CONTAINS speculation/fanon.
3. Only two prophecies/destinies have ever even been associated with him, the S3 mural and the Secret Rings book. That's hardly enough to actually constitute a sub-section.
4. Besides the two things listed above, the only other things seem completely pointless. The Sonic X one is simply "Cosmo was told Sonic pwns", and the Tikal one doesn't even have anything to do with fulfilling anything.
Not only this, but it's breeding grounds for speculation, and "legend building", such as the aforementioned "controller of chaos" crap, or the fanon (if even) "Knuckles initially misread the mural" line.
The section is pointless, and if you can find a good counterarguement to my above listed reasons, go ahead, but if not, don't put the section back in, I'll hide it for now.
And seriously, Hellcat, what the crap? -Chao9999 06:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pointless insults? Hardly. You're arrogant and that's a fact. Whilst I agree some of the more recent additions like the Sonic X part don't belong, most are accurate and not fanon. We have proof for them in game stories, manuals, etc. However, that doesn't seem to be good enough for you and you've shown that yet again by adding code to hide the section. Stop acting like you're the highest authority in the land. Wikipedia is supposed to be a collaboration, not one person making sweeping decisions.--HellCat86 16:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Wait, since when did the Sonic X prophecy simply amount to "Cosmo was told Sonic pwns"?  Last I heard, Cosmo had come to Sonic's planet because of a "legendary blue hedgehog" prophecy, similar to the one in Sonic and the Secret Rings.  --Luigifan 16:42, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Look, I don't know why you get on your high horse when someone says something is outdated, especially when it's a subsection that lists almost pointless info Hellcat, but stop. It's against the rules to insult someone, and it's out of wiki-ettiquette to have a subsection that lists info that is more than trivial, and simply ridiculous. That whole legendary blue hedgehog thing in Sonic X seems to have come out of their *****, seriously. "OMFG SEEK OUT A BLUE HOG THAT WE NEVER MET NOR HAVE REASON TO KNOW ABOUT". Plus, the one that talks about Chaos doesn't even have anything to actually do with fulfilling anything. "Tikal showed Sonic a picture of a baddie on it that was drawn by cave-rat-things". Woopty fricken doo. What's that have to do with fulfilling prophecies and destinies? Furthermore, when did Tikal say anything about stopping Chaos? "He must be sealed inside the Master Emerald NOW!" isn't "Sonic stop Chaos". Plus, the "Iblis Trigger" thing doesn't fullfill any prophecies, unless you blame Sonic for getting killed. The meaning behind the SA mural was never explained, nor was the Sonic 3 mural or the Secret Rings legend. Even though the latter two seem to be the only "fullfillments" worth mentioning, the fact that there are ONLY two, and they are completely pointless to list (at least there) seems to completely void any usefullness of such a subsection. If Sonic fullfills a prophecy, he did it in a game, so leave it there. Don't make a subsection that doesn't mean squat. The Links from LoZ fullfill a prophecies like, all the time. Heck, even the original Final Fantasy's plot revolved around solving a prophecy, so don't make a special subsection that gives special recognition for TWO (OMG MOR TAN WUN) prophecies Sonic has fulfilled, especially when they are so pointless. If you want characters fullfilling prophecies, play the Legacy of Kain series. Also, randomly labelling me as someone who believes myself to be the highest authority for no reason and firing off even more insignificant and rude insults like a machine gun isn't exactly helping your credibility Hellcat. Lay off the insults, lay off the crap and focus on the actual article and not how much you hate someone just because they challenge your opinion. -Chao9999 05:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do? The only other time I've really clashed with you was over the issue of Black Doom as Shadow's biological parent which because Black Doom never flat out said "Shadow, I'm ya daddy!" you refused to accept. I don't really see what that or this has to do with being outdated. Fact is, there is alot of cases in recent games where Sonic's actions are part of some legend or prophecy and that's why the section was started. It wasn't just put there because fans said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Sonic was some great foretold hero?", it's there because it's actual relevant information pertaining to the character which the game points out. I'm sorry, but as far as I can see the problem here is that you don't like this now often occuring angle and thus the article shouldn't be highlighting it.--HellCat86 15:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I have cited a source. I keep saying I'm near certain the Japanese manual confirms Knuckles misreading the mural. As soon as someone provides a copy we can put it to rest (it was a few years before Wikipedia that I read a translation of it)--HellCat86 03:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I've already covered the issue of the Hidden Palace prophecy. As soon as someone can find a link to a translation of the Japanese manual(s) we can put this to rest. The Black Doom thing shouldn't be discussed here, however, just briefly- I'd never said Shadow was Doom's naturally born child. My argument was that because he was made from Doom's genetic material, Black Doom was his biological 'father'.--HellCat86 19:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why has it been removed again? Last I can see, we have two people for it and two against. That's a deadlock, not a "Yes, remove"--HellCat86 20:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: You haven't actually done anything to protect, like cite reasons that it's up. Plus, when someone like GMG, who seems pretty well versed in Wiki-ettiquette, says that something doesn't fit, he's usually right. We've provided (more than) enough reason to have it removed, you haven't provided anything that defends it. -Chao9999 21:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, Chao has a point.  However, I still think that it should remain up, as long as it contains stuff that actally has official sources.  If any fancruft pops up, we just revert it.  --Luigifan 22:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: You're a wonderful human being. Care to explain why I don't give a crap? Maybe I don't always have time to work on Wikipeda.--HellCat86 12:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm incredibly arrogant, and an overall unpleasant man, I mean, three days to type a simple message? I DESERVE a hate message that came outta nowhere, especially from someone desperately trying to preserve a subsection that has absolutely nothing defending it besides the fact that it's pretty much only truth (last time I checked). So, without further ado, oh great being that churns the insults, will it be meaningless insults, or actual defense of your subsection? -Chao9999 09:53, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, this topic is pretty much dancing all over the "flamewar" threshold...  Could we please hold back the personal attacks, please?  --Luigifan 12:29, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it looks like a "holy war" has erupted over here...  Oh, dear...  --Luigifan 12:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm personally not eager for any kind of war. I just get very annoyed with the way Chao9999 behaves, acting like all the Sonic articles have to be in line with their interpretation and if not you're obviously just some idiot who's trying to insert fancruft. It's kind of hard to defend the section when you're dealing with someone who has basically already made up their mind--HellCat86 15:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I gave up. I'm sick of butting heads with you. I've tried to explain the significance and why it's worth highlighting, but you won't have it. No point going round in circles.--HellCat86 12:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed the "Destiny" section... AGAIN 

message: I'm not sure if this is true or not, but somebody put in the voice actors part, under the subheading "cartoons" Ryan Drummond 2007-present. I did not know Ryan Drummond (Sonic's old voice actor) provides Sonic's voice in a new cartoon. This may just be a mistake, can someone please clarify this so we know weather to delete it or not? - some guy April 6 10:58 am
No. There is no way that wanna be Sonic voice actor will ever voice in the Sonic X anime. It was just some Drummond Fanboy. I'll revert it if not before.
:It was me, and I'm not a Drummond fanboy.  I was actually making a revert to the page because I felt that it had been vandalized (I think I was re-inserting the "Prophecies and Destiny" section), and I must simply have failed to notice any other changes to the article in the meantime.  In other words, I reverted the page without checking what the **** I was actually doing, and the result was the accidential insertion of Drummond fancruft.  My bad.  --Luigifan 16:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For the record, I've never been able to notice any significant changes between Sonic voiced by Ryan Drummond and Sonic voiced by Jason Griffith.  --Luigifan 16:48, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only difference I ever noticed was that Sonic's personality seems a bit more like his bios make him out to be. -Chao9999 05:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Griffith sounds more like the bios?  Wouldn't that be a good thing?  --Luigifan 12:46, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Ryan Drummond 2007-present" in cartoons?

message: Is the Age section really needed in this article, to me it seems pointless and uninformitive, just stating Sonics age in the middle of it.--Brago-77 17:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age section? 

message: Do you like the new picture I added of sonic. The previous was of bad quality, however the one I uploaded has some bad anti-aliasing so if someone could fix it or upload a better version... - Titan602 09:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New picture 

message: I'm seeing a lot of picture replacements of the main artwork of this article. What artwork should we use period? --Coconutfred73 20:13, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally like the one with Sonic running in Sonic 2006, but I also like the one as of today. 206.66.217.143 22:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: We could use mine (the one with sonic running) or the other one from the 2006 game. I could upload a better quality version of that in PNG!
That would be good. --Coconutfred73 20:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Main picture of the article debates

message: Does anyone know if there is going to be a Sonic movie for theaters?Themasterofwiki 12:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain this two-parter, I've never heard of it...? -- RattleMan 08:37, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Eh, I've seen that before then. I have both the two-parter on my harddrive and the "Sonic Movie" DVD. Your wording just confused me. =P -- RattleMan 10:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic Movie 

message: It's not been discussed here, but the "The" in Sonic The Hedgehog starts with a capital "T" as it is Sonic's middle name, and not the adjective term "the" (this was Sega's way of copyrighting the name)So the topic is incorrect. Guru Larry 23:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sonic's Middle Name

message: With the confirmed upcoming Metal Sonic artwork, there are already 25 characters with that art. Shouldn't we try to aim to a standard format and use those pics instead of renders of various games?
Eriorguez 00:56, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of official art as standard pic. 

message: :Can someone please put a pic of darkspine sonic ON HIS ARTICLE. Supah kid 17:05, 22,june 2007
It's not really necessary, Darkspine only appeared in one game and doesn't add much to the article. His picture goes better at super transformation. Gurko 12:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  more pics 

message: is sonic 15 or 16, if he was born june 23, 1991 he is 16 but why is he 15? Ydna21 20:23 June 25 2007
Sonic was created 16 years ago in real life, but "in his universe" he is 15. Sorta like how Bart Simpson has existed for like 20 years but has remained 10 years old Cigraphix 19:29, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, June 23, 1991 is technically his debut date, not his birth date Cigraphix 19:51, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic 

message: From what I understand, a character being anthropomorphic does not require that they are also humanoid. Anthropomorphism is the attribution of uniquely human characteristics and qualities to nonhuman things. This can be anything including intellegence and speech. Humanoid means merely having a body like a human: stand on 2 legs, 2 arms, etc. So a character like Sonic seems to fit both anthropomorphic and humanoid. Meanwhile, a character like Bambi is anthropomorphic but is not humanoid because he retains his deer shaped body. Cigraphix 14:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthropomorphic and Humanoid?