Talk:The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion/Archive 1

message: I think the sheer number of bugs that still plague the game (even after the official patch) is noteworthy. A fansite called Baldurdash has identified more than 200 such bugs (many of them critical, including "crashes-to-desktop and many quest errors that break entire questlines"). Documentation of all these remaining issues, and an unofficial patch for the PC version only, can be found here http://www.baldurdash.org/TESOblivion/TESOblivion.html.
It is certainly possible to complete the game without running into major issues (minor ones, as we know, occur aplenty), but a significant portion of these bugs can severely break the game if you happen to run into them, and Bethesda apparently has no plans to fix them.
WikiBob42 12:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bugs 

message: Just a note on that issue, Bethesda hasn't said anything official about it. So I suggest that we refer to it as a rumor, not a rule. That being said, I think that it is quite likely that we will see it on the PS3. Ratwar 02:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not everyone lives in a country where Attack of the Show is broadcast. All I know is that Bethesda themselves have said that there are currently no plans for other versions, and also, the sites that originally started the rumour (by listing it for pre-order) - such as Gamestop and EBGames, have removed the title from listings, presumably on request from Bethesda. So the truth is, for the moment at least, that any rumours of other platform versions, such as for the PS3 or PSP, are just that - rumours. --Dreaded Walrus 17:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Im sorry but attack of the show is not very reliable when it comes to rumors. They tend to grab any random thing that fits there "cool crap before its just crap" thing an repeat it about 12 hours too late. Brokenscope 23:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PS3? 

message: The guilds section says there are 6, 5 of which are joinable.  Then it lists 11 joinable guilds.  Anyone want to try to clean that up?  --The Yar 20:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I gave it a whirl. --The Yar 21:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guilds 

message: March 21, 2006 is now the official release date, that information has been added to the FAQ and a press release for the game has been posted to the official website declaring the game in the gold master stage of manufacturing. the game ships out on march 20 and will begin arriving in stores march 21, it should be available through all of the US and europe by the end of the same week depending on the method of delivery available to the store location.
press release
official faq
hey omniwolf, i want to see you write something that pertains to me being right! hehe (hey i finally quit my job man) Tik 16:38, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: you werent right. the simple reality is the official dates were subject to change right up until the point of the gold announcement. considering that every retail store was still inventing dates throughout the month of march than the most anyone could do is guess based on typical industry shipping schedules. even as we speak there is now a "release week", with no specific dates beyond those derived from the shipping methods used at a variety of stores. anyone claiming "they knew the day" was wrong, and still is even under the current release schedule, since even now there is no street release date, only a shipping schedule which will put the game into various parts of the world on a variety of dates. even stores within the US are not all releasing on the same day. so quite simply, there never was, and still isnt anything to be right about. to even attempt to claim differant is to lack the understanding of the situation and how things work. and for the record, even petes "march 20th" has proven to be an estimate, as the actual factory has begun making small shipments of the game already, some preorders, such as those from take2 will arrive prior to the week of march 21-28. --Omniwolf 13:30, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Release Date 

message: I think there is something missing and I can best describe it in the form of a critiqeu, although it can be easilly transformed in to a NPOV description of how Oblivion is a break from the common ES trend.
The Critique:
Tamriel is bizarre by lack of any other words. Only the High Rock qaurter is what you might consider normal. Now when I say that Tamriel is bizarre it's not only in the landscape but also in story, people, the creatures, the culture, the history, simply put the whole world.
This became more apperent as the world was fleshed out more with each game. Most obviously right after Daggerfall when Red-Gaurd was made and the Pocket Guide to the Empire was published. It already describes a world that is both vibrant and alien.
Specifically Cyrodiil is put down as the integration of all colourfull parts of the Empire, mixing their religion, opinion, philosphy with magic, politics, gods and demons. While at the same time the Colovian West went into the King Arthur overdrive.
The Dwemer Orrery threw out the idea of "normal" (but not a sensible) universe and Battlespire came to follow it up with a trip through Oblivions multi-angulair-modern-art-design frenzy with a story that revealed that the Daedra were more then simple demons and governed by the laws of nature as much as any other mortal.
Morrowind topped it off with a three way culture clash of the Empire, the Tribunal Temple and the Daedra worshipppers.
This trend however did not continue.  Where Oblivion provides the cinematic story the other games were missing, it departs from the common trend by not providing an indepth view of the world. Oblivion certainly does touch on certain aspects, it lacks the detailed world that marked the previous games. 86.80.122.213 19:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Departure from a Trend

message: I've managed to get a straight answer from a dev about the arena, his answer was this:
QUOTE
Vega, let me clarify the issue for you.
There is an Arena, obviously. But you also join the Arena as a combatant. So it's not called the "gladiator's guild," but in practice that's what it is. So when you "join the Arena," you are joining an elite group of warriors who fight in matches in the Arena. You work your way up a circuit (with ranks), all the way to the top.
The Arena has a really rich history in the Elder Scrolls lore, although it's never actually been featured prominently in an Elder Scrolls game before. The first game in the series was called Arena, but even then it existed more as background story than actual gameplay. So, fictionally, there has always been an Arena, and it has always been called the Arena... and not the "gladiators guild." 
Is the Arena a "guild"? Yes and no. "Yes" in the sense that you're joining an organization, and completing Arena matches just as you would quests. "No" in the sense that it's not one of the standard Elder Scrolls guilds; those are the Dark Brotherhood (which is the Elder Scrolls assassins guild), Fighters Guild, etc. When the guilds give you quests, you're potentialy sent out anywhere in Cyrodiil; when the Arena gives you a match, you fight that match in the Arena. So the Arena is like the guilds in some ways, and very much unlike them in others.
Betting on fights does NOT require you to join the Arena. Anyone can do that, without ever stepping into the Arena as a combatant.
Hope that sheds some light on things for you.
END QUOTE
ive re-written parts of this and added it to the article, also removed prior discusion of this topic now that a dev has clarified it. the forum discusion is located here --Omniwolf 14:12, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Arena Faction/Gladiator Guild

message: Look guys, I've just opened an account because I'm sick of correcting stuff on this article only to have it changed to the wrong info again.  Case in point: the Blades.  They are, as I edited a couple weeks ago, required for main quest completion.  Here's the quote from Gavin Carter (Oblivion's Producer): "The five major guilds you can join are the Arena, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Fighters Guild, and the Mages Guild. Also, in the course of the main storyline you join the Blades faction."
Here's the link to the interview where he says this: 
I'm correcting it again.  Let's try and not argue over this, it's been more than confirmed. aghostinthemachine
:Perhaps there are better things to expend one's energy on than whether or not the Blades in fact are a "normal" faction or a pseudo one (as in Morrowind). If I were to speculate I'd not find it har to believe that the Blades will  be closely knit to the main storyline, with quests and tasks given as possibly several global(/main quest) variables are fullfilled. But that's pure speculation, as is anything before we get our hand on it after the actual release. 
:As far as the Carter quote you provided, that one sounds quite like the Morrowind implemention of the Blades. But that's open for interpretation I suppose. Main point, no need to bang our heads until it is released. Scoo 07:27, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Blades 

message: removed "not official" from the collectors edition since actually the contents of the collectors edition have been known for quite some time, theres been alot of discusion on the official forums with devs about what was going into the box. every version gets a paper map and the collectors edition gets the 3 bonus items. much in the same pattern as morrowind which contained a disc (soundtrack, a book (artwork), and a metal figure (ordinator) the oblivion CE has a disc (making of dvd), a book (lore and art), and a metal sculpture (septim coin) --Omniwolf 02:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: to be technical the US MSRP is $50 for the regular PC, $60 for the collectors edition PC. the xbox360 regular version is $60, and the xbox360 collectors edition is $70. console manufacturers have always collected an extra fee. in recent years past the average PC game price hovered around $40, with the average console version of the same game at $50. with recent increases in games accross the board the next generation of PC games is now averaging $50, and the next generation console games are pushing the $60 boundry. its even more profoundly noticable than when the CE is another $10 on top of that. you can see this extra console fee reflected in sonys game prices as well, most of thier first party self published games were released in the $40 range even when all thier 3rd party publisers were still $50 for new release. this trend of $50 PC games and comparably $60 console versions will most likely remain in the coming year, not just for oblivion, but for all next generation titles.--Omniwolf 16:40, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed, also wanted to add that since development costs are increasing, some of the price is being added to the consumer price to help alleviate this problem. Tik 19:19, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collectors Edition

message: I've also added middelware links to the article for gamebryo, speedtree, and havok. this should allow further research for anyone that wishes to explore technical details.--Omniwolf 03:02, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll see if I can verify and attempt to add links and logo if no one else gets to it first. thanks.--Omniwolf 11:16, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Middleware Content

message: Oblivion uses a customized version of the Gamebryo run-time engine developed first by NDL and optomized by bethesda softworks.
Gamebryo is a second generation of the net immerse game engine (which was used for morrowind) and includes much more than just a graphics renderer.
please do some research on gamebryo starting with the original developer before making false claims that gamebryo is nothing more than a renderer:
http://www.ndl.com/gamebryo-engine.cfm
--Omniwolf 03:02, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: GameBryo Engine

message: From the wikipedia article:
"It has been confirmed by producer Todd Howard that the world will be larger than the previous installment in the series: The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. The province of Cyrodiil alone is approximately 16 square miles."
From official webpage: (http://www.elderscrolls.com/games/oblivion_overview.htm)
"Oblivion is a single-player game that takes place in Tamriel's capital province, Cyrodiil."
More official info: (http://www.elderscrolls.com/codex/team_rpgnextgen.htm)
"Even though Morrowind is about 0.0001% the landmass of Daggerfall, the way you play it makes it feel even richer. Oblivion's landmass is larger than Morrowind's, but you can fast travel around much easier"
I guess my confusion is in the sentence "The province of Cyrodiil alone is approximately 16 square miles" in the wiki article. Alone implies more than one province which conflicts with the 2nd quote "...takes place in Tamriel's capital province, Cyrodiil."
=== To clarify the size of the gameworld:===
TES IV:Oblivion "the game"; takes place primarily in the capitol province of tamriel "Cyrodiil". 
this province is approx 16 square miles. the game however also contains other areas of play. 
even though you cannot go to other provinces of tamriel you can go to at least one other plane of existance: 
"The Realm of Oblivion" in lore is described as infinite; in game terms youll be exploring large randomly generated sections of terrain every time you enter a portal and leave the normal land of cyrodiil.
there have been no official size estimates for the playable sections of "the realm of oblivion".
the statement "cyrodiil alone is 16 square miles" is thus refering to only the aprox size of the exterior landmass contained within the cyrodiil areas of the game.
for the other playable areas we dont have estimates, but think of it like this:
0 +16 square miles of above ground terrain in cyrodiil province(although this probably includes water surface areas as well) 
+ unknown size of interior buildings
+ unknown playable area of the realm of oblivion 
+ 200 underground dungeons not included in the above ground estimate 
+ we dont know if the walled citys were included in cyrodiils estimates (because walled citys will have to be "entered" and load as seperate world cells, not part of surrounding terrain) 
= we have no idea of the total size of the playable areas available in the game, but cyrodiil alone is 16 square miles to explore. 
--Omniwolf 23:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have edited the article's mention on the space of Oblivion after careful research; unlike what was previously thought, the realms of Oblivion are NOT randomly generated. When the player enters one of the "non-quest" Oblivion gates, (the editor reports that there are 90 instances of the gate) they are transported to a randomly selected "level" of Oblivion. The game comes with 7 of them, andeach time you enter from a different portal, it re-populates everything, and if you leave a plane without closing the gate, the game remembers which plane that gate went to, and the condition of the plane. It keeps it separate from any other "open" planes of Oblivion the player has been to. Personally, I find the prospect of splitting 7 planes across 90 gates to be a bit tedious, as it clearly was in-game. Hence, I'm currently working on a mod to partially rectify that problem. Nottheking 01:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's right. There have never been any "random generator", or "real" NPC AI, or something like that in Oblivion. It doesn't have anything to do with "If NPC are clever PC won't be needed", these things just weren't developed to save funds.CP/M 14:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: As for the space of the rest of the game, keep in mind that the "Walled cities" were likely not counted, as they are EXACTLY the same size on the inside as on the outside; you can see the cities clearly, and even see INTO them, albeit from great distances. However, when looking in from the outside, you see a copy of the city that uses lower-detail models, and is stripped of life, hence allowing it to be run much more smoothly. Nottheking 01:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I believe Gavin Carter (or perhaps another dev?) touched on this a few days ago.  I forget which interview it was.  Apparently there is indeed an uncrossable barrier at least partially surrounding the area in which you are allowed to travel.  Apparently you can see into the distance past this, as Bethedsa modeled enough terrain past this barrier for it to look like there is a large expanse of land you can't get to.  He mentioned that they tried to make sure it wasn't cheesy.  We'll just have to see, I suppose.  He also mentioned that the draw distance is so much improved, that if they were to place the Morrowind island into the Oblivion Engine, you could actually see the edges of the island when standing in the middle.  Defkkon 13:22, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, this is largely correct; the barriers appear to come in the form of certain cell properties; those that are not supposed to be part of the game are marked in the editor as such, (and are just as easily removed from the list through use of the Construction Set) and in-game, the player attempting to enter those cells recieves the message "You cannot go that way. Turn back." Personally, I find it a bit more intrusive than I'd like, given that it often pops up in a field, rather than on a mountain slope. So it appears largely out of nowhere. Nottheking 01:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: As for the draw distance, I have checked, and it appears to be in the neighborhood of 25 cells; by comparison, the entirely of Morrowind's area was barely over 40 cells, from the end of Vivec to the tip of Sheogorad, so using the engine as used in Oblivion, standing anywhere, you could see the entirety of Dagoth-Ur. Nottheking 01:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean by "40 cells"? Oblivion actually shows 5 cells (9 if you edit the ini) and 25 cells partially. MW has over a thousand of cells total, as well as TES4. CP/M 14:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was referring to the linear dimensions of Morrowind, not of the actual size. Morrowind has 1,390 exterior cells in the game, though the way they are arranged, the actual dimensions of the map are 47 cells North-South, 42 cells East-West. Hence the comment of the 25 cells for Oblivion; that is the total cell-draw range, including LOD cells. Hence, my statement on being able to see the mountain of Dagoth-Ur from any spot on the island. (note: upon further examination, I will say that if you'd stand out in the waters south of Azura's coast, the actual cell "Dagoth Ur," as the crater, will not be visible, as it will be 27 cells away) Nottheking 22:47, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size of Game World? 

message: TES IV:Oblivion "the game"; takes place primarily in the capitol province of tamriel "Cyrodiil". 
this province is approx 16 square miles. the game however also contains other areas of play. 
even though you cannot go to other provinces of tamriel you can go to at least one other plane of existance: 
"The Realm of Oblivion" in lore is described as infinite; in game terms youll be exploring large randomly generated sections of terrain every time you enter a portal and leave the normal land of cyrodiil.
there have been no official size estimates for the playable sections of "the realm of oblivion".
the statement "cyrodiil alone is 16 square miles" is thus refering to only the aprox size of the exterior landmass contained within the cyrodiil areas of the game.
for the other playable areas we dont have estimates, but think of it like this:
0 +16 square miles of above ground terrain in cyrodiil province(although this probably includes water surface areas as well) 
+ unknown size of interior buildings
+ unknown playable area of the realm of oblivion 
+ 200 underground dungeons not included in the above ground estimate 
+ we dont know if the walled citys were included in cyrodiils estimates (because walled citys will have to be "entered" and load as seperate world cells, not part of surrounding terrain) 
= we have no idea of the total size of the playable areas available in the game, but cyrodiil alone is 16 square miles to explore. 
--Omniwolf 23:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have edited the article's mention on the space of Oblivion after careful research; unlike what was previously thought, the realms of Oblivion are NOT randomly generated. When the player enters one of the "non-quest" Oblivion gates, (the editor reports that there are 90 instances of the gate) they are transported to a randomly selected "level" of Oblivion. The game comes with 7 of them, andeach time you enter from a different portal, it re-populates everything, and if you leave a plane without closing the gate, the game remembers which plane that gate went to, and the condition of the plane. It keeps it separate from any other "open" planes of Oblivion the player has been to. Personally, I find the prospect of splitting 7 planes across 90 gates to be a bit tedious, as it clearly was in-game. Hence, I'm currently working on a mod to partially rectify that problem. Nottheking 01:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's right. There have never been any "random generator", or "real" NPC AI, or something like that in Oblivion. It doesn't have anything to do with "If NPC are clever PC won't be needed", these things just weren't developed to save funds.CP/M 14:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: As for the space of the rest of the game, keep in mind that the "Walled cities" were likely not counted, as they are EXACTLY the same size on the inside as on the outside; you can see the cities clearly, and even see INTO them, albeit from great distances. However, when looking in from the outside, you see a copy of the city that uses lower-detail models, and is stripped of life, hence allowing it to be run much more smoothly. Nottheking 01:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I believe Gavin Carter (or perhaps another dev?) touched on this a few days ago.  I forget which interview it was.  Apparently there is indeed an uncrossable barrier at least partially surrounding the area in which you are allowed to travel.  Apparently you can see into the distance past this, as Bethedsa modeled enough terrain past this barrier for it to look like there is a large expanse of land you can't get to.  He mentioned that they tried to make sure it wasn't cheesy.  We'll just have to see, I suppose.  He also mentioned that the draw distance is so much improved, that if they were to place the Morrowind island into the Oblivion Engine, you could actually see the edges of the island when standing in the middle.  Defkkon 13:22, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, this is largely correct; the barriers appear to come in the form of certain cell properties; those that are not supposed to be part of the game are marked in the editor as such, (and are just as easily removed from the list through use of the Construction Set) and in-game, the player attempting to enter those cells recieves the message "You cannot go that way. Turn back." Personally, I find it a bit more intrusive than I'd like, given that it often pops up in a field, rather than on a mountain slope. So it appears largely out of nowhere. Nottheking 01:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: As for the draw distance, I have checked, and it appears to be in the neighborhood of 25 cells; by comparison, the entirely of Morrowind's area was barely over 40 cells, from the end of Vivec to the tip of Sheogorad, so using the engine as used in Oblivion, standing anywhere, you could see the entirety of Dagoth-Ur. Nottheking 01:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean by "40 cells"? Oblivion actually shows 5 cells (9 if you edit the ini) and 25 cells partially. MW has over a thousand of cells total, as well as TES4. CP/M 14:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was referring to the linear dimensions of Morrowind, not of the actual size. Morrowind has 1,390 exterior cells in the game, though the way they are arranged, the actual dimensions of the map are 47 cells North-South, 42 cells East-West. Hence the comment of the 25 cells for Oblivion; that is the total cell-draw range, including LOD cells. Hence, my statement on being able to see the mountain of Dagoth-Ur from any spot on the island. (note: upon further examination, I will say that if you'd stand out in the waters south of Azura's coast, the actual cell "Dagoth Ur," as the crater, will not be visible, as it will be 27 cells away) Nottheking 22:47, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To clarify the size of the gameworld:

message: I did not add this, but I did some minor copyeditting. I'm doubtful as to whether the list should exist here. A) It's just a laundry list of features. B) It's explicitly stated as being plagiarized. -Fuzzy 16:08, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Some minor corrections in spelling, e.g. 'Unofficial' -Hecks 16:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: since the list seems to have been deleted, and no one re-added it, i added a link to the actual article that it was plagarized from instead of re-adding the entire content back in myself. i actually put the link up a while ago, but figured id comment on it here while im cleaning up the discusion page. --Omniwolf 12:09, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Laundry List of features 

message: Omnilas removed a large amount of text a few days ago without explanation and without answer to me asking why on his discussion. Since a large amount of the text wasn't his, I thought it best to revert it. -Fuzzy 13:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah, that seemed a bit odd to just delete so much for no reason... maybe it was an accident--Omniwolf 12:09, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Discussion 

message: Oblivion is quoted repeatedly as a VERSION of hell. While obviously there are extensive differances when comparing oblivion to religious or mythological sources in the real world, the truth of the matter is that theres differances in every version of hell depending on your source of comparison. whether hell includes cute fluffy bunnys or fiery infernos all depends on what lore your going to compare it with. perhaps the article could use a section devoted to explaining what the realm of oblivion is within tamriels lore. but it doesnt need to be interspersed into a long winded parenthesis that breaks up the flow of the introduction, when naming it a "version" of something, summarizes its differances the same way, and in one word.--Omniwolf 03:42, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ive started a section to attempt to explain oblivion as compared to hell. if anyone wishes to fill it in a bit more feel free, im not a lore expert. if no one else gets around to it i may do more research and flesh it out a bit more myself. just please keep in mind that the devs liberally use the "oblivion is a version of hell" comment, and rather than confuse people by contradicting this ive tried to explain the differances in the versions rather than argue over "its not hell". --Omniwolf 04:39, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Are very different. For example, Clavicus Vile's realm in Redguard.
 Molag Bal's realm is the same type as Dagon's. I'm not sure about others. - T0mm0 19:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oblivion / Hell 

message: I think there are too many. See the discussion on the DDO talk page, but I think it needs to be reduced to perhaps the official game site, the official forums, and one one or two good database type links with game info. I don't see a reason to list a ton of fansites, except perhaps a list on a seperate page. In the Be bold spirit, I went ahead and slimmed it down to what I think is appropriate - adding a HTML comment too. ℑilver§ℑide 05:15, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: TESwiki, we decided not to merge, so I put it back. ℑilver§ℑide 21:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: I've just culled a crapload of links, and here's my rationale:
* TESwiki: this has little content (compared to OblivioWiki and UESP), and the administrator says it was only a test that is soon to be re-merged.
* Dev diary: cool, but we gotta cut down.
* DirectSong: again, cutting down. It's right on the official site's sidebar anyway.
* Gamespot: not a fansite, and space is at a premium.
* The Dark Brotherhood: sounds cool, but too small and nothing released.
* Blog: it's a... blog.
* Podcast: hasn't started yet, so doesn't deserve a space.
* Elderscrolls-Oblivion: listed twice. Has (comparitively) few files so I left it as a fansite instead.
* Character generator: again, cool, but not enough content to make it worth keeping.
* RPG Codex: not a fansite.
* Xbox 360 Galaxy: reviews, oooh wow, how significant.
I've also vaguely re-sorted lists based on their amount of content and/or popularity, edited the UESP link to point directly to the Oblivion hub, and re-added the Oblivion Mod Wiki. I'm not sure when it left the list(?!?) but the pageviews alone show it's very popular.
So there we have it, more merciless stripping. I'm tempted to take more, but this will do for now. GarrettTalk 04:07, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: TESwiki, we decided not to merge, so I put it back. ℑilver§ℑide 21:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yet more culled

message: please consider visiting the official forums rather than asking for information here--Omniwolf 13:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: just for the sake of setting this straight, he's an illegitimate child born outside of marriage, disowned and not raised as the son of septim. so yea, his name is martin, but its not septim. he would not be an heir had any legitimate son remained. with all legitimate heirs of septim dead, the emperor is removing his bastard status and granting him the crown. its simply a requirement of how the amulet works, without a blood relative in possession of the amulet, the gates cannot be stopped. you find all of this out relatively early, which is why its in dozens of magazines already.  further questions like that should be asked on the official forums. this is an encyclopedia and not a Game FAQ or a spoiler collection. --Omniwolf 13:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Triva questions:

message: Is the heir's name really going to be Martin Septim?
:just for the sake of setting this straight, he's an illegitimate child born outside of marriage, disowned and not raised as the son of septim. so yea, his name is martin, but its not septim. he would not be an heir had any legitimate son remained. with all legitimate heirs of septim dead, the emperor is removing his bastard status and granting him the crown. its simply a requirement of how the amulet works, without a blood relative in possession of the amulet, the gates cannot be stopped. you find all of this out relatively early, which is why its in dozens of magazines already.  further questions like that should be asked on the official forums. this is an encyclopedia and not a Game FAQ or a spoiler collection. --Omniwolf 13:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Heir's Name

message: Where are you finding that information from PC Gamer UK?  I believe it, but a link to the scans would be appreciated.
Adg1034 23:35, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: anything like that would be a breach of copyright, we should not encourage illegal scans. the magazine is easy enough to come accross in the real world for comfirmation. or visit the official oblivion forums where every article like that is discussed at length with multiple confirmations from people who own the magazine, without resorting to illegal breach of copyright.--Omniwolf 13:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

text: This implicitly confirms it. --Slashdevslashtty 00:24, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reviews

message: Should the leak of the game be mentioned? -202.124.104.17
:Quite honestly, I don't know that I can cite a single game in the last few years that wasn't leaked. I don't think it needs to be mentioned. -Fuzzy 13:20, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  Unless it's something out of the ordinary like when the French version of Halo 2 was leaked about a month before release it doesn't really need to be mentioned.  It's common for almost every game to be leaked on or around its ship date. --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 13:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leak of the game 

message: Well someone keeps wanting to add the information about how reviewers posted reviews of the game less than a day after they had it.  That information is false.  The public only had it for less than a day, but reviewers get advance copies of the game weeks in advance.  Can anyone provide proof that the reviewers posted reviews after playing the game for less than a day? --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 16:50, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disputed 

message: Here's some things that weren't clear to me as I read the article:
*The Overview section says Bethesda might be giving away the Construction Set "because of pending Havok licensing issues". It would help if we cited someone saying this, because then I could find out what those issues are ;-)
*The Radiant A.I. section mentions "testing with PAC AI for further developments". I'm not sure what that means. Also what does "PAC" stand for?
*The same section ends with "To give you a clue as to the enormity of this technology, there will be over 1,000 NPCs not including other monsters." That sentence probably should be rewritten.
::Why "other monsters"? Does this mean "non-humanoid monsters"? "monsters of races not available as player characters"?
::Other games have had lots of NPCs; perhaps we should say something like "1,000 NPCs interacting with each other as well as the PC" (emphasising the NPC interaction, which is a great benefit of the Radiant AI).
Chris Chittleborough 16:40, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor clarifications requested 

message: Just to note, there's some odd tone here - the SpeedTree section uses trademark symbols and describes how it was an 'excellent choice', and there's a little bit of conversational tone elsewhere: 'To give you a clue as to the enormity of this technology, there will be over 1,000 NPCs not including other monsters' (although 'enormity' means 'terribleness'!). That second quote also indicates the future tense in use for this product, which should be updated now it's been released. I'd look at some of these myself, but not enough time right now. -- Mithent 02:51, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Odd tone, and future tense 

message: Those screenshots are extraordinarily numerous and somewhat messy, causing several edit buttons to pile up at the end, rendering the text that they fall on top of unreadable. Should we remove some of the screenshots? By no means are ALL of those necessary for the article or essential in demonstrating the text. Personally I feel that the following should be kept, along with maybe one or two others placed elsewhere in the article, wherever needed.
Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg|For the FaceGen section.
Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg|For the SpeedTree section.
Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg|Or this for the SpeedTree section.
-Dave 04:03, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Screenshot Disorganization 

message: The total spoiler section 'general story' definitely should be moved somewhere else. It's a just-released game, so it could heavily damage gameplay experience.
I have removed it except the very beginning. (If you want to cut-and-paste, it' []). CP/M 14:54, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler 

message: Many parts of this article are advertising copy. --24.131.209.132 23:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone 

message: While I do enjoy the music in the game, the entire section of the music/Jeremy Soule is some of the worst posistive bias I've seen on Wikipedia - it's like Soule's agent wrote it, or something. Really needs to be more NPOV. Aerothorn 05:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Tell me, the music section reads like an ad for Directmusic.com.
I am more than compelled to agree... this hardly reads as if it were written by a non-partisan source.
Charles M. Reed 16:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jeremy Soule section 

message: Would it be worth it to add the recent controversy over the horse mod? Need to be careful with your stance I suppose, make it clear that even if this a slippery slope, that PC users will have to pay as well.
There is no controversy. It is optional content, affecting the game in no way, shape, or form. It's an add-on for pure novelty purposes, sold at a small priced, designed to make an extra buck or 2 for the company. I see no controversy. --JOK3R 15:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps I'm late to the conversation, but the horse controversy did spark discussion, commentary, and debate about virtual property, micro-transactions, and the precendence (and fear) of game developers excusing themselves from delivering a finished game, without gamers opening their wallets. This stands in direct contrast to the modding community which has, on many occasions, produced mods that have matched or exceeded the quality of the commercial product. Perhaps it could be mentioned that micro-transactions are a way for developers to increase revenue, despite there being free, official plugins. What this would show is a developer's conflict between busisness, and the need to show appreciation, through any gesture, for the player base. Many other games having given away more for nothing, for which links could be provided. The sale of these plugins has the effect of burning through the goodwill of the community. This, I believe, is the reason for the controversy, and is important enough to include. --KaiSeun 03:17, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Horse Controversy 

message: How many MB's is Morrowind (Xbox version)?
How many GB's is Oblivion (360 version?)
Thanks. McDonaldsGuy 01:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I don't have the exact figure on the disc size on hand, I do know that without anything else added, a full install of Oblivion on the PC comes up to 4.26GB of disc space; the disc itself appears to be 4.6GB or so. "Only" 1.66GB of space is taken up by the game's two "container" files of voice acting; it is still the single largest component of the game, but far from "half of the disc." Note that assuming that it's compressed to the same 64kbps bitrate used in Morrowind, that comes up to roughly 60 hours of voice, comfortably enough to satisfy the "50+ hours" claim. Nottheking 00:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questions about the size of the game 

message: Why are all comments on negative aspects of the game removed, as well as all references to the fact that the game's publisher released a promotional video showing features that are not in the real game? Why are the developers' claims about the AI presented as fact, when they have never been observed by players or independent reviewers? I added a reference to this yesterday and it was deleted (I kid you not) one minute later. Why does the whole article read like an ad for the game? 213.58.67.15 03:33, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removals 

message: Salutations everyone. I wonder, would it be possible for a Lore section to be added to the article catagory list, with brief summaries of the history, characters, deities, traits, and so forth covered in the many books found throughout the game - we shouldn't spoil any content of course, so shortness is emphasized. We could use this section for many internal links to more in depth new articles regards the lore of Tamriel, and Cyrodiil in particular - with spoiler notices unless some wish to discover and intepret the lore independently.
--D-Katana 28 April 02:00 (UTC)
:I think that would be more fitting on the series page, personally. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of redundancy with existing (or future) content in the other TES articles. GarrettTalk 23:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possibility of a Lore section? 

message: We should make a section about that. My source is this. It is from GameSpot.
     according to the article, both versions were re-rated m.
:Indeed, that is correct. Already, Bethesda has changed all of the ratings on at least the Elderscrolls.com site to reflect this change. Nottheking 19:59, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The PC version of the game was re-rated to M

message: Does Action-adventure_game not seem more appropriate? --86.2.153.77 04:12, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I take it you've never actually played a crpg before then. Being able to pick different races and increase stats can be done in most(if not all) action adventure games, many FPS's, even MMOFPS's, as can the "freedom to go anywhere". --86.14.132.122 05:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd add that many RPGs don't allow the player to pick different races, and don't give the freedom to go anywhere. If there's a defining attribute, it's neither stats growth nor open world.CP/M 17:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Roleplaying game

message: Just a suggestion, but maybe one of the (more experience Wiki users), should add something about the premium mod service and it's related controversy, as that seems to have been a unique instance with this game.
When the pay-to-play plugins first came out they got a pretty frosty reception (and still do), especially from the PC crowd who were used to the free add ons as seen in Morrowind and it might be intresting to note - a recent poll I posted on the forum showed a roughly 50/50 split between the pro-mod and anti-mod camps, so it's a fairly neutral subject. Just rather noteworthy shift in focus --Beugnen 06:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion, any "controversy" among a small group of fans should not be mentioned in this article. This is an encyclopedia with the sole purpose of educating about a specific topic. It's only natural there will be complainers and "controversy" when add-ons come along that cost additional money. It's nothing new. Many other publishers have done this in the past (and been very successful at it). I strongly oppose it being in the article. It's irrelevant to the subject of the game itself and can be easily considered NPOV. Just my 2 cents. --JOK3R 20:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The controversy seems to apply also to other mods and the way they are introduced. For instance, the Orrery building is already in game, being more like an incomplete game rather than just mod. CP/M 17:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, the fact that they have released four mods before even patching the game has many people very angry. --DragoonWraith 02:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your evidence? How many? Please refer to Wiki guidelines.Beugnen 06:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pay-for-download controversy 

message: This article gets vandalized a lot, so before you make an edit please check the recent history first and revert first if necessary. Making edits on top of a vandalized version makes a messy situation. -- S Sepp 10:34, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems as if all of the recent anon edits have required reverts, what's the criteria for partial protection? --The Yar 16:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: The article mentions several foreign ports of the game having characters being referred to in the wrong gender.  I have also observed this problem in the English-speaking versions as well: In Bravil (I think it was Bravil) the Argonian City-Swimmer talks about herself briefly in the third person as a 'he' before saying "No, I am here in front of you" or something like that. Judging by the context and other dialogues, I think the third person reference was intentional, but the gender mix-up seems wrong.  I have also heard people refer to the Mages' Guild head Dagail (in Leyawiin) as a man under the 'Rumors' topic.  I didn't put these in the article because I wasn't sure what kind of citation would be needed.  Could someone tell me if this is relevant enough and if it should/can be verified? Tonberry King 04:23, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Easily verifiable information (in this case, by using the Construction Set) doesn't need special citations, so it's enough. However, such mistakes seem few. CP/M 04:31, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Localization problems 

message: How many units has this game sold since release as i think that should be on the wiki page ?--Paul 17:39, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be difficult to get accurate information. Besides, such temporal-based measurements are only going to become out-of-date.Beugnen 06:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sales

message: As well as the PS3 version that is rumoured to be happening, perhaps a mention could go to the  PSP version that is supposedly in the works, as seen on EB Games? The fact that they are not only allowing orders, but have set a (not exactly cheap) pricetag, and even a temporary release date seems to suggest that they, at least, are certain that a version is in production, regardless of how suitable it may not be?--Dreaded Walrus 09:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah. It now seems to have been removed from the site, along with the PS3 version. I hope that all people who pre-ordered got their money back :P --Dreaded Walrus 08:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PSP? 

message: A closed-doors demonstration given at E3 for the game apparently has Todd Howard, the executive producer, playing the game as he demonstrates the game's vital features. This can be seen through his way of playing and how he speaks to the viewers during the video (some may speculate it is not him playing, some will notice he fast-travels and misleads players on his destinations.) The full demo presentation was handed out on DVD to retailers at an insider pre-launch event to promote the Xbox 360.
Ok. I'm not going to edit this article, as I'd probably be tempted to also add why I think this is the most sub-par TES game ever, and that has no place here. But as far as the above statement goes, here's the facts:
- On E3 2005, Todd played a specially modified version of the game. It was not a video. As far as warping to other parts of the world is concerned, I can only guess he used a key bound to a command like cow (center on world).
- The "leaked" video (if that wasn't indeed a marketing gag) supposedly came from a DVD (it was in fact initially distributed as a DVD image) given to managers of a big US based game store chain, one of whom supposedly leaked it to the internet. It was recorded after E3 and is similar but not identical to the presentation given at E3.
- The video from that 'leaked' DVD was made available by Bethesda Softworks via its website several weaks after its supposed leak to the internet in much smaller files of inferior quality but exactly matching content.
Stargelman 14:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  E3 presentation 

message: Could people please stop changing the OFLC rating in the info box? I changed it a few days ago, and today its changed to T (which isn't even an OFLC rating). Let me tell you a story: early promotional material sad it was MA (I don't know if that's because they got it rated as that or they were saying that to be on the safe side). I have a poster that says that. However, by the time it was released, it was (and still is) classified as M. The game box says as much and you can find it on the OFLC website. Can someone please stop changing it? It's M. End of story. --DK 05:04, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OFLC (Australian) Rating 

message: A fan journal in the fansites was just called a spamlink.  Why is that?  There are links to fan journals on the Morrowind page.
Bibliomancer 18:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't spam; but anyway only major sites are to be added. Hm... Hey, there is some more low-rank and nonenglish crap - I'll clean it right now and warn the spammers.  CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 19:10, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fan sites that do not provide factual information or resources are not useful as encyclopedic reference. Fan sites and mod sites should not be included unless they are cited in the article. Please read Wikipedia:External links and for more info. Take StarCraft (a featured article) as an example, it contains no fan sites in its External Links section. --Voidvector 19:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spamlink 

message: I have removed the mod sites external link section. They have almost no encyclopedic value and are barely mentioned in the article. See WP:NOT and WP:EL --Voidvector 12:58, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mod sites 

message: I have recently removed a lot of external links from here per WP:EL policies. When I removed the external links initially, I based my judgments on other Featured Articles. Most featured articles in Portal:CVG have only 1 or 2 wikis. So from the previous 3 wikis (UESP, Oblivion Mod, OblivioWiki), I chose to keep UESP and Oblivion Mod. 
An anonymous editor later reposted OblivioWiki. I reverted it on the ground that we already have 2 wikis, and that comparing to the other 2 wikis, OblivioWiki is a commercial site (with advertisements). The poster later messaged me regarding this. Quote the message on my talk page: 
I think this discussion is more appropriate here. How do other editors here feel about listing OblivioWiki as an External Links? 
--Voidvector 02:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure about defining OblivioWiki as a commercial site; Google AdSense is sensible way to discreetly cover hosting costs. I'm biased towards UESP since it's bigger and long-established site. The Oblivion Mod Wiki offers completely different content from the other two, whereas, arguably, OblivioWiki has the same goals as UESP's Oblivion section. I agree that three wikis is overkill... it's a difficult decision, but for now I think it should stay gone. GarrettTalk 10:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OblivioWiki