Talk:Dominant seventh sharp ninth chord

message: I never saw anything about Hendrix having synaesthesia before. This may have been invented by an over-imaginative journalist because of his talk about 'auras' and the lyrics of 'Bold as Love'. One gossipy newspaper article does not a fact make.217.44.176.159 (talk) 08:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Synaesthesia

message: What pentatonic blues scale goes G A#(Bb) B D F and skips the C? McTavidge (talk) 03:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See Hexatonic scale. Hyacinth (talk) 04:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Which blues scale includes the notes of the Hendrix chord? None, since there is no blues scale, or the only blues scale, since there is only one. "Steven Smith argues that ""to assign blues notes to a 'blues scale' is a momentous mistake, then, after all, unless we alter the meaning of 'scale'". Hyacinth (talk) 00:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh?  If there's no blues "scale" (as, you point out, Steven Smith argues), then the quotation doesn't make a lot of sense -- it takes as a given that such a thing does exist ("the whole of the blues scale") and then proceeds to say that the chord represents every degree of it.  And yet when pressed, you say there is no such thing as a blues scale or that the 4th degree of it is optional.McTavidge (talk) 07:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Different scholars, authors, and artists have different opinions. See Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Citing sources. Hyacinth (talk) 04:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Can you not see how something can evoke another thing without exactly resembling it? Hyacinth (talk) 04:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a testy response.  You've been less than forthcoming on the rationale for this quotation -- cryptic, I'd say -- and now it's capital offense to ask you to explain.  McTavidge (talk) 04:20, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Blues scale represented by the chord

message: This is only tangential, but as long as we're naming whole chords after individual artists . . . Does anyone out there think it's semi-appropriate to refer to the E minor ninth chord as the "Pink Floyd chord"?  See Paint Box (song) for an incomplete list of all the prominent occurances of Em9 or Em(add9) in the Floyd's body of work.  Basically, every album from DSOTM on, until Roger Waters left (if you count "Dogs", which is in D minor, due to downtuning) has an Em9, and not just in passing, but emphatically.
Incidentally, the Floyd did use the Hendrix chord in "Corporal Clegg" and several other songs, but that's just a coincidence, not relevant to my question.  
--63.25.117.132 (talk) 15:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Find a reference supporting it. Looks like anything goes on pages like this. SteubenGlass (talk) 09:35, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Pink Floyd chord"? 

message: How about a sound sample?  Thanks.DavidRF (talk) 04:35, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sound Sample 

message: This article states:
"In essence," one author has written, the Hendrix chord is "the whole of the blues scale condensed into a single chord,"[3] this being possible because one version of the blues scale is pentatonic, or five notes, and the Hendrix chord is five notes: [depiction of G7#9]"
Is this quote being used out of context? Does the author literally mean, as this article currently contends, that the chord is a concatenation of the blues scale? I don't think so much sence since:
#What's generally understood to be the "blues scale" has 6 notes, a 9th chord has 5, and as played by Hendrix, the "Hendrix cord" has only 4;
#A blues scale in G would be G Bb C C# D F, but a Hendrix chord on G is G Bb B D F
#A convincing argument could be made that the chord is the "essence" of the Bebop scale (G A Bb B C D E F), but that's not what the quote actually says.
In short, I suspect this quote is being misused, leading to unnecessary confusion. Yilloslime (t) 22:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the (probably) improper literal interpretation of the quote, and attendant music theorizing. Yilloslime (t) 22:08, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "the whole of the blues scale condensed into a single chord"

message: Just as the Beatles had the first recorded use of guitar feedback (the opening of I Feel Fine), they also have the first recorded use in pop music (as opposed to jazz or classical) of the augmented 9th chord.
It occurs in the climactic line of "You Can't Do That" (1964):
Because I told you before
Oh, you can't do that
The sound of the E7sharp9 chord there is glaringly obvious.
But, yes, Hendrix popularized it, as did Steppenwolf in Born To Be Wild (1968), a year after Purple Haze and Foxy Lady (1967, three years after the Beatles' You Can't Do That).
I can't make plain tildes on my Spanish-language keyboard, so here are four ññññ's.  
Brian Cobb, brianallancobb@hotmail.com
I don't know how to correctly edit Wikipedia (my Bible), but I hope somebody will correct the erroneous information about Hendrix being the FIRST user of the augmented 9th chord.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.151.99.94 (talk) 21:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you are correct that "You Can't Do That" is an instance of the 7#9 chord. However, I am fairly certain that you are incorrect that it was the first instance in popular music. What about American musical theater and Tin Pan Alley, ie. The Great American Songbook? I can't think of a standard off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are a few.BassHistory (talk) 18:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  First use of augmented 9th chord in pop music was by the Beatles in 1964 

message: The correct term is 'sharped', not 'sharpened'. 99.232.90.74 (talk) 22:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The correct term is augmented, not sharped. Hyacinth (talk) 12:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sharped 

message: Just a minor point. It wasn't really a solo career in the strictest of senses, that is to say it wasn't really a solo career at all. Granted, the band was built around, and indeed for, Jimi, but it was a band nonetheless. Can this please be reworded to something approximating "prior to becoming a recognised musical artist in his own right with the inception of The Jimi Hendrix Experience in 1966." Thanks, The Coj (talk) 04:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "prior to his solo career in 1966" 

message: The Rodgers/Hart musical On Your Toes uses this chord in its title song. Maybe someone with access to the score could verify this? (For example, Overture, bars 26 and 30)... -- megA (talk) 22:51, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  First use in "[[On Your Toes]]", as early as 1936? 

message: Nice article, guys.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.93.68 (talk) 20:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nice 

message: There is no 5th in the "Hendrix chord". Therefore, the musical examples do not reflect actual practice. In practice, the Hendrix chord is just one particular voicing of a 7#9.  "Hendrix chord" is not exactly synonymous with "7#9."BassHistory (talk) 07:52, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Hendrix Chord" is one specific voicing, without a 5th 

message: According to Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(music)#Accidentals, accidentals in articles are required to be either the template, Template:Music/doc, or the words. Thus C, C-sharp or C sharp, rather than C# or C-#. Presumably the template should be used unless there is a reason not to. I propose the number of times the word is used in articles and books covering this subject and the number of non-'experts' involved may be a reason.
Anyone else care, have any thoughts, a vote? Hyacinth (talk) 05:14, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: {{music|#}}, #, vs sharp

message: I noticed an early use of the augmented 9th chord in a Scott Joplin rag published in 1901.  (C-sharp in the right hand over B-flat, D, A-flat in the left.)
--Bill
71.191.176.113 (talk) 00:28, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that would still require a citation even though it seems clearly apparent in the notation, it would get tagged as WP:OR or WP:SYNTHESIS. See: WP:CITE and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (music). Hyacinth (talk) 06:19, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  First use in Scott Joplin's [[Sunflower Slow Drag]]? 

message: Checking the cited source the quote is found on p.172 and p.174 mentions a "major ninth chord" and a "ninth chord" but not a dominant 79 chord or augmented ninth chord. Hyacinth (talk) 09:15, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The first two chords in the piece (referred to in Bruhn) are perhaps not the most clear example of augmented ninth chords because they can be heard in two different ways depending on the location of the root. However, there is a much more obvious example in measures 15 and 16, where the chords are unmistakably augmented ninth chords, C#-F-G#-B-E and D#-G-A#-C#-F#, and the root is clearly identified by being the lowest note. This is not pointed out in Bruhn, but perhaps Debussy's music itself can be cited? 76.21.115.14 (talk) 18:48, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What you are describing is original synthesis at best, if not your own analysis. The Debussy passage is interesting, but it looks like it has to go. Just because you can find something spelled enharmonically doesn't mean it counts as a certain type of chord.BassHistory (talk) 08:14, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Feuilles Mortes''

message: *The Spencer Davis Group's 1967 song "I'm a Man"
Hendrix's contemporaries:
*the Beatles' "Taxman", and "The Word"
*"I Feel Free" from Cream's debut album Fresh Cream; both songs predate the release of "Purple Haze"
*the opening of "Kid Charlemagne" from the Steely Dan album The Royal Scam
*a soft D79 chord is used by Pink Floyd in their song "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" (for example, it can be heard just before Roger Waters starts to sing "remember when you were young, you shone like the sun")
*prominent featuring in the song "Junkie Slip" by The Clash from the album Sandinista!
*Wes Montgomery's album, The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery, in the piece "Four on Six"
*throughout Muse's "Hyper Music"
Present in:
*Led Zeppelin cover version of the Ben E. King song "We're Gonna Groove"
*"Siva" by The Smashing Pumpkins
*AC/DC song "Shoot To Thrill" off of their Back In Black album
I removed the above as uncited. Hyacinth (talk) 09:26, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed: Uncited

message: While it is true that the INTERVAL between the top note of the "Hendrix Chord" and the bass (in Purple Haze) is indeed an "augmented ninth", this is not the most clear name for this CHORD. Admittedly, these things are hardly standard, but in general practice the term "augmented" when used in reference to a CHORD generally refers to the 5th of the chord. See the Chord Table at the bottom of the article for confirmation, where for both triads and seventh chords the term "augmented" always refers to the 5th of the chord. - --DannyMuse (talk) 14:05, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Where in the article is this relevant? Hyacinth (talk) 10:36, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Nowhere any longer. This article previously had several instances of referring to the 7#9 sonority by the confusing and inaccurate term "Augmented Ninth chord". So I edited the article to correct this and added appropriate citations. (I also corrected similar problems in related articles - see for example Augmented seventh chord). Again, the designation of "Augmented Ninth" is only correct when referring to the INTERVAL between the top note of the "Hendrix Chord" and the bass. In common practice, when the term "augmented" is used in reference to an entire CHORD, it refers to the 5th of the chord, which ironically is absent from the particular "Hendrix chord" voicing of the 7#9 chord which this article discusses. --DannyMuse (talk) 14:51, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: A Rose is a rose ... or 7#9 vs. Augmented Ninth

message: I've consulted a leadsheet and a written piano score, and I can't see it anywehere, not even implyed. I'll remove this song.--Fauban 14:36, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The chord does not appear in the Beatles' "Michelle" 

message: It could be argued that "any scale can go over any chord", but that isn't really a useful approach for learning/teaching. So, what we should show here are patterns of use. The current chart is totally wrong (for example, Dorian is not an appropriate scale for a V7 chord in a minor key. I'm deleting the "Scales" box entirely, because it is so rife with errors it has the potential to mislead thousands of music students. We should come to a consensus here on the talk page, and then add something. I suggest a mainstream source, such as Jamey Aebersold, Mark Levine (musician) or something from Berklee Press. Cheers.BassHistory (talk) 19:00, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Scales" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: So, to me, it seem like the lead should link to topics such as the domiant, the seventh chord, the major third, the root, and enharmonic. But I don't want to upset people by being so disrespectful and ignoring process on a website that tells me to be bold a take risks. So instead of creating those links I humbly ask y'all who happen to read this before I die if I should or may add those links. See: MOS:CONTEXTLINK: "The opening sentence should provide links to the broader or more elementary topics that are important to the article's topic or place it into the context where it is notable." Hyacinth (talk) 03:59, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Links in the lead

message: This article is tagged ridiculously with , with no reason given. It is tagged with  whose description of improvement is that the article provide context, which is presumed for all articles. It is tagged with  yet no alternative name for the article is suggested, nor is there any information besides "Expert help", which is redundant give the tag. As such, these tag should either be removed or should be added to so that they make sense rather than being useless. It bothers me a little that I even have to discuss the improvement of tags meant to improve the article; it seems very postmodern. Hyacinth (talk) 04:07, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Tags