Talk:General Tso's chicken

message: I have reverted several changes pointing to this domain. The first few were made as "Generaltsoschicken", and later I believe to be a sockpuppet of the same at 24.193.29.228.
This user initially pushed obviously advertising links to his/her domain, along with an iTunes Music Store link for a General Tso's "Theme Song." (Including info on how this was a "hit" song, etc, etc.) This is obviously blatant commercialism. I reverted those changes, but commented that they could be re-added as proper references. This user keeps re-adding them as direct links from the main page, and not as proper references.
I believe all "generaltsoschicken.net" links should be treated as commercial advertisements, at least until the user(s) responsible for such can include them as proper references, and not just as in-line links.  76.119.236.24 (talk) 06:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: "generaltsoschicken.net" links

message: "Hunan cuisine is traditionally very spicy and rarely sweet. Instead, the dish is believed to have been introduced to New York City in the early 1970s as an example of Hunan and Szechuan-style cooking." Since the dish is sweet, and it is already refuted that Hunan cuisine is sweet, this suggests that Sichuan cuisine is sweet. It is also generally not. I don't trust this source if it suggests it to be an example of either cuisine. Sweet and sour cuisine is much more typical of Cantonese food, and this correlates well with the fact that Cantonese were the majority of first-generation Chinese immigrants to the US. This is a well-known fact in the origin of "American Chinese" cuisine, and I think this dish is much closer to Cantonese food than any other kind of Chinese food. 18.62.16.50 (talk) 16:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dubious statement about Hunan and Sichuan cuisine

message: I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this. I've heard Tso's pronounced several different ways, and even though there's probably not one "correct" pronunciation, I wonder what is most common. -- Wmahan. 22:23, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the article on the man himself, it is pronounced 'tswo'.  --Bletch 02:39, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I pronounce it "sow," as in the female pig. 66.109.47.231 17:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: I'm pretty sure there's no "Chinese Chicken God" and that he didn't save Gerneral Tso by smiting his opponents with his firey chicken breath, but I'm just marking it as disputed since I can't say for sure that there's no legend corresponding to this version of the food's origins. - Nunh-huh 21:21, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chinese Chicken God

message: Mr. Burns' quote was wrong on a couple of counts, so I corrected it using the episode itself (A Hunka Hunka Burns in Love, saved on my TiVo) as a guide.
- Rhrad 18:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Simpsons Quote

message: Mytildebang, do you have a verifiable source for "General Doogie's Chicken"/"General Mac's Chicken"?  I can't find any hits for these names on Google or Google.ca, not even on restaurant menus. (There is a hit on an earlier version of this article, but that shouldn't count.) -- Victor Lighthill 15:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, it's been 5 days.  I've taken out the sentence about General Doogie and General Mac.  Please add it back in if it turns out to be verifiable. -- Victor Lighthill 18:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't it obvious that that's vandalism? General "Doggie"? You have heard about the stereotype of dogs in East Asian cuisine, right? 209.6.243.42 22:19, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "General Doogie's Chicken"?

message: Sorry, I reverted an edit without seening what had been removed; I thougt it was blanking. I removed it again. | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 00:34, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sorry

message: :Is white meat the preferred meat in Asian or American cuisine? Well, I don't know! But, its a mistake obviously! -- Steve Miller 17:03, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Obvious mistake under "Overview"

message: Can anybody provide evidence for the story that General Tso was served his chicken by his wife, or even
that General Tso's chicken existed before 1900?  If we can find evidence that the chicken was contemporaneous with the General, that would pretty much knock down the "1970s USA" origin claims.  However, if we can't find reference to the chicken before the mid-20th century, it would make the "served by Tso's wife" story far less credible. -- Victor Lighthill 16:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: General Tso's Wife?

message: There is a contradiction in the opening paragraph:
The dish is unknown in China and other lands home to the Chinese diaspora.[verification needed] In Taiwan, the dish is known to be a classic dish from Hunan province, invented by General Tso's wife and served for him and his officers upon every military victory.
First of all, the text assumes that Taiwan is neither part of Chine nor part of the "other lands home to the Chinese disapora". Secondly, if it is indeed a classic dish from Hunan province, then how can it be unknown in China?
Will work on it. Scotchorama 09:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Intro contradiction

message: Also, is it necessary to have that new line about a Newark restaurant serving rat meat? I've added a citation tag, but am considering deleting the line as it doesn't add any value to the article. Scotchorama 16:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rat meat necessary?

message: The comment about it being called Orange Chicken doesn't make sense.  Orange chicken is a completely seperate dish and has nothing to do with General Tso's chicken. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.172.214.192 (talk) 22:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What about Lemon Chicken?  I don't know the technicalities or the taste, but this certainly looks exactly like the dish I get in Canada called lemon chicken.  --24.141.153.56 04:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does it have a lemon-flavored sauce? Many of the dishes may look similar, or be nearly identical in recipe, but lemon chicken should have a lemon-flavored sauce, and orange chicken should have an orange-flavored sauce. Both dishes have Wikipedia articles. Badagnani 04:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Orange Chicken

message: The article's claim of ketchup use seems to be based on an erroneous passing mention in an article in some small town paper's lifestyle section.  I have scoured the net and consulted all 30 of my cookry books, another 20 or so at the Brooklyn Public Library, and asked the chefs at the 6 Chinese restaurants here in Brooklyn that we eat at on a regular basis and there is no mention of ketchup whatsoever.  I've removed the claim until a source that includes some recipes and information is found.  Cheers. L0b0t 05:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, the ingredient is used, something I know from personal experience of Chinese chefs where I live in the midwestern United States. Since personal experience isn't used as a source at WP, the newspaper source will suffice, pending the finding of further sources, to show that at least in some U.S. restaurants, this "secret" ingredient (which would likely not be widely advertised, despite catsup's East Asian origins) is used. Badagnani 05:35, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I suppose you didn't realize that this is a major newspaper. Please restore the source. Badagnani 05:50, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Don't threaten, and don't remove valid sources. Neither is considered a Wikipedian trait. Cheers, Badagnani 05:42, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, I don't believe I threatened anyone?  
Also, if its use is so infrequent that the only source that can be found is the trivial, tangential mention in the cited source, then it is not important enough for inclusion in the encyclopedia.  Like I say, I've been looking for 3 days and have found no mention at all of ketchup use and I'm in the city the dish was invented in.  Cheers. L0b0t 05:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: You certainly threatened, in your edit summary. Badagnani 05:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: There are regional differences between Chinese American cuisines in different parts of the U.S. as you undoubtedly know, and I have already told you that, aside from the cited source, I know from personal experience that ketchup is used in the sauce in the area in which I live. It is insulting, over and above your threat, that you should not respect my expertise while I do respect yours. Badagnani 05:47, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't dispute that ketchup (or other concentrated, tomato-based sauces) is used infrequently as an ingredient in this dish. Regarding expertise, you did verifiably claim that you are from the area where the dish was invented and that you had spoken to several Chinese chefs, presumably to assert some superiority in knowledge of the subject. However, this is a large country, and it's quite likely that no single individual knows about every regional variation of particular American Chinese dishes. Badagnani 06:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I just called a local Chinese restaurant and asked if there is any tomato in the sauce for their General Tso's chicken. At first she asked if I was allergic to tomatoes, then said that there is no tomato in their General Tso's chicken sauce. I then told her that the owner of another restaurant in the area had divulged to me several years ago that he used ketchup in his recipe. She then yelled, in Fujianese, to the cook, asking about this, and he replied that, yes, ketchup is used in their recipe for General Tso's chicken. I then asked her if ketchup would be used in the "traditional" recipe for General Tso's chicken in China, whereupon she said "I don't think they have General Tso's chicken in China." Badagnani 20:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of ketchup

message: User:L0b0t's recent deletion, with edit summary "not good enough, the cooks.com recipe only has general in the name" needs to be explained. The recipe is clearly for General Tso's chicken and clearly calls for ketchup.  While you're at it, please restore the Honolulu Star-Tribune article you unjustifiably blanked from the article earlier this evening, thanks. Badagnani 06:16, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 
Blanking
 Edits by L0b0t (l0b0t blanked nothing).

message: In this edit, User:L0b0t blanked sourced text (and link to NPR website) stating that tomato paste is used in this dish. Please restore this text and link. Badagnani 06:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional 
blanking
 by L0b0t (again, l0b0t blanked nothing)

message: Anyone know why the Pinyin doesn't match the characters in the opening paragraph? That looks like it needs fixing to me. (140.247.10.148 08:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch; we'll check on it. Badagnani 08:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Done. Badagnani 09:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pinyin Problem

message: Does 公 mean "General"? Wiktionary says it means "duke." Badagnani 23:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like many characters, 公 can mean a number of different things depending on the compound word in which it appears, but is usually means "public." Examples include 公安 （public security), 公报 (bulletin), etc. But it can also denote a metric unit of measurement （公里 = kilometer, 英里 = mile) or turn a chicken into a rooster (公鸡). So, as usual, it's difficult to say what the character "means" on its own, but I think "public" is a good approximation 90% of the time. See zhongwen.com for a good list of compounds in which it appears. (140.247.11.17 05:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

text: "公", as well as meaning duke, is also a male honorific denoting a very high level of respect. Zuo Zongtang was not a duke, but a Marquess of the Second Rank and a Grand Councillor. "左公" here would be best translated as a generic term of respect -- maybe "the Honourable Zuo's Chicken" or "Lord Zuo's Chicken". Note, however, that a person can be addressed as "公" as a mark of respect even if they were not a peer. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[wikt:公|公]]

message: On 24 June 2007 L0b0t tagged this article's subsection "Overview" with a request for more sources.  Normally, an overview will depend upon subsequent sections for its sources.  The "Overview" at that point had four sentences, the last two of which were supported by references.  The second sentence already had a request for source. So applying the general tag to the remaining single sentence was perhaps excessive.  Since then the second sentence has been supported, and a new sentence has been added with two references.  Based upon the fact that only a single sentence doesn't have a direct reference, that there are six citations for the remaining four sentences, and that this is an overview section, I have removed the general unsourced tag.  If appropriate, as L0b0t has done before, individual requests can be made for specific information which "has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, or [contains] quotations". Wikipedia:Verifiability --Bejnar 21:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More sources

message: Assessed article for Food and Drink Project purposes as "start" class as it has a fair amount of content but lacks in many respects.  Importance is "low."  VirginiaProp 23:09, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Food and Drink Assessment

message: I am a Mandarin Speaking South Louisiana native who lived in Mainland China and Taiwan for a few years. While I didn't see any "General Tso/Zuo's Chicken" at any restaurants in either country, I did have the occasion to take a cooking class while in Sichuan province, and I can say without a doubt that the "tong cho" chicken offered in Restaurants in South Louisiana is actually a poor English transliteration of "tang-cu" (tsu), or "sugar-vinegar" chicken, a dish that is common in Southwest China (I can read the Chinese characters on the menus, and it reads as Tang-cu or sugar-vinegar) It is like a spicier, more tart version of Cantonese style sweet and sour sauce, served over fried chicken pieces (one of the dishes I learned how to make). The taste is similar to, but much more sour than, the General Tso's Chicken served in American Chinese restaurants. And being a native of South Louisiana(New Orleans, I also lived in Baton Rouge), I can attest that "General Tso's Chicken" is served there as named, sometimes right alongside Tong Cho chicken on the menus. This part of the entry is mistaken. How do I go about editing this?64.122.245.240 05:22, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is good info. Why don't you go ahead and add this information in the article? Badagnani 05:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is a misinterpretation of 糖醋雞. Benjwong 23:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: TONG CHO CHICKEN is not GENERAL ZUO's CHICKEN

message: The hanzi for "General Gau's chicken" do not give this name, and what is called IPA is not in IPA symbols. Please fix. Badagnani 17:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Box needs to be fixed

message: The article writer asserts that this dish is known as "Generals Chicken" in most Philadelphia Chinese restaurants.  I am from Philadelphia and in every Chinese restaurant I have ever been in, including the one whose menu I am currently looking at, I have never seen it listed as anything other than "General Tso's Chicken."  It's possible the author of the article is referring to Chinatown establishments in which I have never been.  At any rate, if any area Chinese restaurant refers to the dish as "Generals Chicken," then stating that "most" do would seem to greatly overstate the case.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoryBuff14 (talk • contribs) 14:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Odd.  It is often called "General's Chicken" in the Midwest, further out from the coast than Philadelphia, across the Mississippi River.  But I've never been to Philadelphia, so I can't speak to that.50.81.155.59 (talk) 20:12, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Philadelphia Nomenclature

message: I removed a line that said the "Tao" name/spelling was used in parts of Canada.  That was sourced with a recipe on a website.  It was reintroduced with a new link.  The link is broken because the website is relaunching tomorrow but it appears to be for a frozen entree from a supermarket in Canada (looking at the google cache).  I don't think that is a sufficient source.  A single source demonstrates a single instance.  One can't derive a conclusion beyond what the source says as per WP:NOR.  In this case the source seems to say virtually nothing.  I know this is just a food article but I expect something more as a source. --JGGardiner (talk) 09:28, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that this is a good source itself, but I am Canadian, and I've never in my life heard anything but Tao. Canada's largest food retailer calls it Tao, and I can't think of a much better possible source than that. I figured the website would be back up by now, it says it re-opens November 5. I found this article from Kingston, Ontario where it refers to it as General Tao (while mentioning as an anecdote that the specific restaurant calls it General Tso, which is abnormal here). If you don't like either of these sources, do a Google search for "General Tao" and confine it to pages from Canada or something, and see what you think is best. Oreo Priest talk 12:52, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're personal experiences has some meaning of course.  Though to be honest I'm also Canadian and actually lived the better part of the last decade in Eastern Ontario (in Ottawa) which seems to be the region you have identified and I hadn't noticed the same.  In fairness this is not the kind of food I would normally eat .  Although I did eat from the now defunct, and horribly named, Ho-lee Chow once or twice but looking at one of their menus online they used the Tso version.  In fairness they were a Toronto company.I have looked at sources in a search.  When I limit to Canadian sources I get some Taos back.  But that seems like confirmation bias.  Because when I don't limit to Canada I get other Taos, mostly from different parts of the US.  In any event I'm sure that you're familiar with WP:SYNTH and that you can't read more from a source than it actually says.  Is this tantalizing evidence?  Perhaps.  It seems to tantalize you more than me.  But we all mentally extrapolate different things from the same sources which is why that method, unlike some Montreal "Chinese" chicken, is not kosher.As well I would note that the text is confused.  It says the name occurs in "parts" of Canada.  But you seem to be identifying it now as a pan-Canadian practice.  I realize that you may not have written that passage but I'm confused. Are there actual "parts" or is that just a vague term to avoid specifics? --JGGardiner (talk) 22:09, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, pretty much all your points are valid. I know all about confirmation bias, but I hadn't really thought I would have forgotten it here. Anyways, the prose isn't great, and neither is the information available. Your experience confirms that it is not universally called "Tao" in Canada, so I guess the "parts" is to address that. We could of course remove all reference to Canada, which might not be a bad idea. Oreo Priest talk 05:47, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, jeez, if I knew you were going to be so nice about it I wouldn't have been such an insistent jerk.  Sorry about that.We certainly know that "Tao" is one of the alternate names.  It does show up in both Canada and the US though but it does seem more common here.  If I had to guess it is because the French influence introduces the name and then it just makes sense because it is less intimidating to anglophones who don't know anything Chinese transliteration.So I'm not really sure what the best way to handle this is.  One can say with certainty that Tao is an alternate in both countries.  It does appear more common here but I'm not sure if we really have the proper sources to say that.  But maybe that shouldn't hold up the inclusion so I won't object if you want to keep the line because it really isn't a big deal. --JGGardiner (talk) 21:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A jerk? Not at all, don't worry. I just axed the minutiae of regional variation in names, simply replacing it with a statement that the name varies by region. I wouldn't think we need more detail than that, and we certainly don't have the evidence to support more detail. Let me know what you think. Oreo Priest talk 07:38, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds like you made some positive changes.  I think it looks very good now. --JGGardiner (talk) 08:14, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's 2018 and there is no citation for "Tao" in the article. I'm marking it as dubious. --Stybn (talk) 03:08, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: As a Canadian living in Quebec, I can confirm that Tao is the name used here and that nobody uses Tso or other variations. In fact, all of the Asian restaurants and restaurant chains (Tiki Ming, Thai Express...) use Tao.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ncollart1983 (talk • contribs) 15:39, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Another Canadian here - it is absolutely "General Tao" here in Canada (I've lived in Ontario and Nova Scotia and nobody has used anything but "Tao" to name this dish). What kind of source is needed to prove this? I can post a bunch of links to Chinese restaurant menus from various cities but I'm not sure if that counts as a valid source.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:8420:2BEB:D5F5:F97B:6DB0:150F (talk) 22:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: "Tao" version

message: This section is supported by an article in Salon.  The IP-based editor trying to remove this section claims it was written by a blogger (it's not, it's by a food writer for Salon) and that the "blog" (article) isn't sourced.  It's sourced to several books and interviews.  Salon might not be the most reliable source available, but it's suitable for an article on food.  Rklawton (talk) 23:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: the fact that it uses that weird taiwanese spelling "tso" rather than standard "cho" -- or cantonese "gau" -- is certainly evidence for a taiwanaese source.  i asked above: if this were a standard dish on a US menu as far back as the 70s, why wasn't it gau EVERYWHERE.  surely boston is no more cantonese than ny or philly! 66.105.218.17 (talk) 05:57, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Taiwan claim

message: Check your Chinese retaurant! They may offer GENERAL TSO'S SHRIMP! Its very yummy!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.180.111.254 (talk) 23:33, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: GENERAL TSO'S SHRIMP

message: General Tso's chicken is not Hunan food! Hunan people do not heard such a crappy "American Chinese" food.--刻意(Kèyì) 16:33, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not Hunan 

message: Could someone add to the main article the correct pronunciation of Tso.  I've heard it pronounced several ways.
The waiter at my favorite Chinese restaurant insists it's pronounced Tow (rimes with cow)
I've always thought it was sew and in what you do with a needle and thread
Another pronunciation I've heard is tow (rimes with sow, an adult female pig)
and others  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.41.34 (talk) 16:04, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  How Is Tso Pronounced? 

message: The list of alternate names in the lede is long, growing, and unsourced, so I moved it to the section "Names." These names will still show up in a Google search, and in testing the search terms I came across "General Joe's Chicken" which I added! ch (talk) 20:16, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of names moved to Names Section 

message: I asked my Chinese teacher about this when I was learning Chinese, and she said that it was General Cao (Cao Cao). Cao is a very prominent figure in Chinese history (he even has a figure of speech using his name) and to me seems more likely to be the more famous General. Cao is also very phonetically similar, but appears as Tsao in Wade-Giles. Just curious if anyone else has heard this? (I don't know how to sign my post. My username is robmox)Robmox (talk) 21:29, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Who is General Tso?

message: There is a documentary making the rounds on Netflix entitled The Search for General Tso (it's currently cited in the references for recipe info).  They interviewed Peng, and he stated he first served the dish at a Nationalist banquet in Taiwan in the 1960s.  He named it after General Tso, as he considered him a revered fellow Hunanese.  They also interviewed the owners of Shun Lee, who say they got the recipe from Peng while on a trip to Taiwan.  They noted they were the first to serve it in the U.S. in 1972.  Peng later opened a restaurant in New York and served the dish.  In the interview, he criticized the typical recipes for the dish used by American restaurants.  
Would this information be useful for this article?  Bms4881 (talk) 23:15, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Search for General Tso 

message: General Tso's  (epicurious)	General Tso's  (PickledPlum)          	Iron Chef   General Tso's	Char siu                               	Lee Kum Kee  Char siu
-                          	*Hoisin sauce                         	-                        	fermented red bean curd  + Hoisin sauce	fermented soybean paste  + Hoisin sauce
-                          	-                                     	-                        	honey                                  	honey
Scallion                   	Onion                                 	-                        	-                                      	-
Sesame Oil                 	-                                     	Soybean oil              	-                                      	-
chillies                   	*Sriracha + Hoisin sauce              	red peppers              	*Five-spice powder  + Hoisin sauce     	-
Chicken Stock              	Chicken Stock                         	-                        	-                                      	-
-                          	Tomato Paste                          	Tomato paste             	-                                      	-
Soy Sauce                  	Soy Sauce                             	Soy sauce                	Soy sauce                              	Soy sauce
Sugar                      	Sugar                                 	Sugar                    	Sugar                                  	Sugar
rice wine                  	-                                     	rice wine                	-                                      	
Vinegar                    	Rice Vinegar + Sriracha + Hoisin sauce	Vinegar                  	*Hoisin sauce                          	Acetic acid
garlic                     	*Hoisin sauce                         	garlic                   	*Hoisin sauce                          	garlic
cornstarch                 	Cornstarch + Hoisin sauce             	food starch              	*Hoisin sauce                          	corn starch
 * = replaced with following ingredient
It seems to me General Tso's sauce was invented from Char siu sauce by removing fermented bean curd/paste & honey, while adding chilli peppers. --Ne0 (talk) 18:48, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparison with Char siu sauce 

message: My mother talked of it back in the 1960s 2600:6C56:6400:9EB:806C:95A5:34ED:CC1C (talk) 05:22, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  I think we invented this