Talk:Mangonel

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I propose that we merge the Onager (siege weapon) article into this one.  Onager and Mangonel are functionally the same.  Some authors say onager is a sort of nick-name for the mangonel, so the latter should remain.   DonSiano 15:45, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd been all set against the merge the above, but my in house library doesn't run to seige machines. I want to look in some library books, as online has really slowed down, and I prefer to check this sort of 'split hair' via vetted authoritative sources, not some web enthusiasts understanding.  If anyone can cite a link or three from good university papers and such research resources, that would help. This kind of page, has no authority. Best regards, <B>Fra</B>nkB 20:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Propose merge

message: Although alike, the onager came after the mangonel, they are different.
Mushrooms777 00:04, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oppose 

message: Needs Careful Researching—initial reaction—This would obfusticate the time distinction, which is historically important. If we want to do a half-assed job, we can go edit 'Encarta' or 'Grolier' (written for grade four to six). The Romans and the Byzantines certainly used 'Onagers' from shipboard — so the one term is Roman, one is much later, obviously French— and Merging, if different, imho, is against the purpose of the encyclopedia, basic education.  So, both are torsion engines, iirc, the Onager was wheeled. The guideline, WP:Btw doesn't say anything about combining two articles operating using similar principles, it says to connect them. Another Foundation Goal, you know, those unimportant guys paying the bills <G>, is to have an article for every article in ALL other major encyclopedia's. 
: 
I'd been all set against the merge the above, but my in house library doesn't run to seige machines. I want to look in some library books, as online has really slowed down, and I prefer to check this sort of 'split hair' via vetted authoritative sources, not some web enthusiasts understanding.  If anyone can cite a link or three from good university papers and such research resources, that would help. This kind of page, has no authority. Best regards, <B>Fra</B>nkB 20:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Waiting to Grok

message: the first lines state than a mangonel had less range than a trebuchet, however the range of a mangonel is listed as 'up to 400 meters', whereas the range of a trebuchet (on its page trebuchet is listed as 300 meters.  :þ clsours   ¡Æ! 01:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CONTRADICTION 

message: I no.174.52|talk]]) 00:48, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture? 

message: Could this statement be clarified (burning sand?) and given some support (citation, etc.)? "Mangonels might also have thrown burning sand at enemies, the hot sand would enter openings in armor, leading to painful burning or death." — Robert Greer (talk) 13:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have doubts that they were used for that purpose, but that is a description of what hot sand does. Take a look at early thermal weapons for more info and refernces. Wandalstouring (talk) 08:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  burning sand 

message: The newer stuff I have read indicates that the mangonel is a kind of trebuchet, and is not a torsion catapult at all. I will see what I can dig up. Meanwhile, this article has no citations whatsoever, and it certainly needs some. Megalophias (talk) 05:54, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Quite possibly completely wrong?

message: There is no information about how the mangonel works. Is it a torsion engine, or does it use the gravitational power, like the trebuchet? This information need to be added to make the article complete in my opinion. --Kri (talk) 22:09, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  How does the Mangonel work?! 

message: The mangonel doesn't seem to represent a single type of catapult, but varies in shape and function from source to source (see 
). For example, some sources see the mangonel as a trebuchet while other sources sees it as a torsion engine. A quick Google Image Search however, seem (it has to be considered that Google image search does not only find professional works) to show that the majority of today’s sources see the mangonel as a synonym to the onager (see ). --Kri (talk) 14:54, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it isn't really certain. However, the more modern stuff I've read says the mangonel is a trebuchet, at least in later use. In earlier Byzantine stuff it (manganon) is pretty vague, I gather. I'm going to leave the (rather dubious) medieval onager stuff here for now, though it badly needs references, and readers can go to trebuchet for that interpretation. I will add a couple of references for mangonel=counterweight artillery. Megalophias (talk) 00:27, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separated opinions about what a mangonel is 

message: I've done some serious research and I've found a book called Dictionnaire raisonné de l’architecture française du XIe au XVIe siècle (Dictionary of French architecture from the eleventh to the sixteenth century) in the Volume 5, Engines it shows a picture similar to "Catapulta DER 1962.PNG" and it is called baliste or ballista, and later on is talks about the mangonel and depicts it as a fixed counter weight siege engine in wich part of the impulse to throw the proyectiles comes from men pulling ropes attached to the counter weight, it was similar to a trebuchet and also used a sling to add velocity to the proyectiles. Here's a link to the page:  Ofensive siege engines before artillery (French)
Mbartelsm (talk) 17:38, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Medieval mangonel

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the very beginning, there is a link called "onager". This link redirects to an article about a donkey and not about the article about the siege weapon, which also exists.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobiasfeil1993 (talk • contribs) 12:50, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong link in the beginning of article 

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:59, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion 

message: The article explains that the mangonel did not operate by torsion, but doesn't actually explain how it did work. From the pictures, it looks like a team of men (how many?) pulled on ropes (horizontally? vertically?). What was the leverage situation - were the men pulling the ropes an arm's length, or were they hauling for multiple steps across the ground? A discussion of this sort of thing - how it worked - would be useful. SSSheridan (talk) 19:41, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  How does it work? 

message: This is infuriating. In three articles ("Mangonel", "Torsion siege engine" and "Torsion mangonel myth") to find out what it means when someone says "That's not a torsion thrower. That's a TRACTION thrower". I also TRIED to go to "Traction siege engine") but that just goes to "Mangonel". I don't enjoy being teased and played with by someone who is VERY CAREFULLY avoiding ANY description of what a Traction thrower IS and how it works. We're only told what it ISN'T and that it works by "traction" and not "torsion", but what does that even mean? It explains nothing. The extent of my donations to Wikipedia is this: I tell you when you are abysmal, for free, as in the present instance, and that is ALL I WILL EVER donate until you clean up your act! If you want to say that some TRACTION thrower differs from a TORSION thrower, you must explain what EACH OF THEM ARE! What is it, like a military secret or something? You'll go to prison if you breathe a word of it?2600:1700:6759:B000:1C64:8308:33BC:E2D6 (talk) 09:20, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: What is a TRACTION thrower?