Talk:Battle of Medenine

message: Battle of Medenine and Operation Capri cover the same event. Operation Capri contains more info and is the older article. Folks at 137 17:35, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: support the merge. Radagast83 20:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge proposal

message: Made a start on citations and references.Keith-264 (talk) 19:27, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  CE 

message: Copied from User talk:Keith-264
I noticed your reversion of my edit to the Battle of Medenine article and its edit summary. I had thought that Wikipedia editors are supposed to assume good faith, but your summary seemed to contain quite a bit of sarcasm. Therefore, I'm not sure what you assumed about me, but to start, I’ll comment that you have an interesting user page.
To answer the first part of the question in your edit summary, sure, I know what jargon is. It’s vocabulary or terminology used in a particular way by a group, trade, hobby, or academic field, and usually not understood or even known outside that context. Jargon abbreviations are the same, using abbreviations and acronyms instead of words.
Most of what I do as a Wikipedia editor is to try to improve its readability for general users, which is the intended audience. That’s my perspective on abbreviations and jargon as well. The LRDG abbreviation in the Battle of Medenine article was not useful for Wikipedia or its readers. Here’s why:
* After its first use, it did not appear again for another seven paragraphs. At that point, it is unlikely to be remembered because it’s not a term the vast majority of people, likely well over 99% of readers, have ever heard before. It might be OK to do this with an abbreviation like "C.I.A." or "F.B.I.", but even then, we editors should recognize that Wikipedia is read not just by Americans.
* Readers trying to learn about the battle probably have to pause and look back seven paragraphs to remember what LRDG stands for. So that’s not a good way to write, and there’s no way a good editor for a newspaper or magazine would allow it.
* After its second appearance, it was used only one more time – in the next sentence, so there other ways to save space instead of by abbreviation.
To answer the second part of your question, sure I know how to abbreviate titles. A better question might have been whether I know when to abbreviate titles. I think it should be done to save space when a long title is repeated a dozen times in an article, or maybe even five times. But none of the titles in the Battle of Medenine did that, so it was not necessary to abbreviate them.
The final clue that LRDG was used as jargon were the other abbreviations that were also used without a need. I picked up on this when I re-read the article. OKW, IBMP, AGRA, KRRC, and CIGS all appeared once and immediately following the full names that they abbreviated, and therefore added no useful information. FFFC appeared twice, and GCCS appeared three times, including their first mentions. RA appeared twice, without being defined. I have again re-edited the article to avoid jargon abbreviations.
Please remember that Wikipedia is for a general and very broad audience. Articles should be readable – and pleasantly readable – by everybody. I recognize that this is very difficult to accomplish and challenging with some subjects that are inherently dense or require prior knowledge, including a lot of military history. I also realize that you are dedicated to and knowledgeable about this field. But Wikipedia readers are just as likely to land on a battle page without prior knowledge or background. It’s our job to get them to keep reading. And please take my comments as ways to improve Wikipedia, not personally.
Ira
Ira Leviton (talk) 21:02, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Your reasons are based on an inference about hypothetical readers and their putative inability to cope with abbreviation. I find this elitist, defeatist and self-serving. The full titles and abbreviations not repeated are there because it is a B class article and thus a work in progress. If you want them out, so be it but LRDG stays.  perhaps this might help. Keith-264 (talk) 21:34, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh and having defined jargon you used it pejoratively, which seems illogical to me. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 21:55, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battle of Medenine