Talk:Elfen Lied/Archive 2

message: In the article it is stated that the Silpelit are incapable of reproducing yet are able to infect humans. Just to be clear, does this mean that a full-fledged Diclonius like Lucy can give physical birth to a non-silpelit Diclonius child, while a silpelit is unable to actually give birth at all, their role being limited to simply infecting humans?
Yes that is correct. -- Psi edit 16:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Silpelit: Reproduction/Infection

message: Lucy is depicted even more sadistic and murderous. She actually enjoys inflicting both physical and emotional pain on her victims and aggressors. 
Im not sure I agree with this change in the manga. How exactly is she more sadistic. -- Psi edit 12:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More Sadistic?

message: Lynn Okamoto himself has a brief cameo appearance as a special guest in episode 12.
Where does he appear? (Ive watched all of the anime). -- Psi edit 02:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Where is the cameo?

message: I have no experience with the official review process used for Good Article nominations, but after a read-through of the article, I'd like to make a suggestion that would greatly improve the readability:
Split the gigantic section on what a Diclonius is out of the story section into Diclonius (Elfen Lied) or something similar. Right now, we have an article's worth of definition and description in the middle of what is supposed to be a description of the series intro, with no transition between them. I found the following part especially abrupt:
"Silpelits are merely expendable soldiers tasked with the complete annihilation of the homo sapiens population so that the fertile Diclonius can breed progeny to populate the planet and, therefore, becoming the dominant species.
The next day, a boy named Kouta arrives at Kamakura to meet his cousin Yuka."
Come to think of it, didn't Diclonius used to be a seperate article? What happened to that? Did it fall victim to a mergist admin? --tjstrf 07:00, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Nom

message: The Good article nomination for  has failed
:
Good work on this article - it is very thorough.  However, I think it has a few problems that prevent it from becoming a Good Article at this time.
* As Tjstrf mentioned above, the lengthy description of the Diclonius is awkwardly inserted into the Story section, and it really disrupts the article.  It needs to be reorganized, or split into a new article titled Diclonius (Elfen Lied).
* The Story section needs to be copyedited for proper grammar.  It is full of non-standard phrasing and clauses that make it hard to read.
I encourage re-nominating when these are addressed.
 Aguerriero (talk) 16:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Good articles|Good Article]] [[Wikipedia:Good articles/Nominations|nomination]] has failed

message: See this diff. He immediately removed it (probably because this issue is also dealth with in the "Humanity" section), but when I first read it, I thought that there was a need for some balance there as well. Shinobu 22:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It wasn't removed, just moved down 1 paragraph; it's still there in the Diclonius section...And what do you mean by balance? -- (十八|talk) 23:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A bit of balance

message: How do u prenounce exactly "ˈɛlfən liːt"? 84.228.211.118 06:38, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lingvo have informed that it sounds like  ['elfin li:d] 83.178.206.174 09:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not really true though. The ə is a schwa, not an i, and final consonants in Dutch and German are devoiced, so it ends in a t. Besides non-IPA pronunciation guides can easily give someone a wrong impression, since the interpretation of such guides will be very dialect dependent. It's better to have a look at International Phonetic Alphabet and the relevant articles linked from there. Shinobu 16:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I've heard the name pronounced in the Trailer. Its pronounced "Elf-In Lead" Elf-in being one sound of course...208.248.33.30 16:37, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The sound "Lead" as in the english word Lead meaning to guide in a direction. Heheh208.248.33.30 16:39, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Take note that the last d is sounded as a t, not d. --130.232.131.47 01:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to www.dictionary.com, "lied" can be pronounced as either "leed" or "leet." Both are correct. (I personally say "leed" since "leet" reminds me too much of "1337.") -Crimsonseiko 14:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. [lid] is the English pronounciation, meant for the word "lied", meaning a certain type of song. However, the title is obviously wholly German, and hence you're stuck with [lit]. That's why it's written as エルフェンリート/-rīto in Japanese, not リード/-rīdo. --130.232.106.17 14:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ˈɛlfən liːt

message: Talk:Elfen Lied body count. Since no-one's responded yet there, I'll make the offer here:
Is there any reason whatsoever that we need that article, since it seems to be a collection of indiscriminant information? I'm going to nominate it for AfD in all likelihood, but would like to give the editors of this category some input first. Is there some vital need for it that I'm not aware of? --tjstrf 04:39, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fancruft. Shinobu 02:16, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Talk:Elfen Lied body count]]

message: I've been hearing rumours of the making of elfen leid 2, this article could mention this with more detail, if any wikipedist know if this are only rumors or if it's true, elfen leid fans want, could or should know, please mention this in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.169.14.38 (talk) 
:I, atleast, have heard no such rumors, and anyway Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, so predicting future events that aren't confirmed aren't allowed. If it becomes confirmed, site your reputable source and add it to the article.--(十八|talk) 20:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Elfen Leid 2?

message: I was positive before it said on this page that Kouta and Yuka being cousins was a mistranslation when the Anime was made, otherwise their relationship would have been incestious and that wasn't quite right... Can someone confirm this for me? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.30.15.7 (talk) 19:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a discussion about this earlier. Read the source here. -- Psi edit 21:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Incestuous relationships are nearly par for the course in harem series. Nothing to be surprised about there. --tjstrf talk 08:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cousin?

message: This is the Diclonius information taken out of the page, as it was too cluttered.
The reason I put it on here is because I am a bit of a new, inexperienced member, and would prefer that someone else with more skill would create the Diclonius page everyone has been suggesting. -- LuceOmbra 13:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reinserted the Diclonius information for now as there is no reason to take it out currently. Also, I am against creating a seperate Diclonius article since it's just fine where it is in the main article. Also you say "everyone's been suggesting" but just who are you talking about?--(十八|talk) 14:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I meant "some", not everyone. It could still use some cleaning up, though.69.245.238.206 21:22, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've jazzed up the Diclonius (Elfen Lied) article.  --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 06:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Diclonius Information

message: I hear there is an interview with the Mamoru Kanbe (the director) on the inside cover of one of the english DVDs. I can't find a scan anywhere (except for a site that requires registration and seems to have blocked have of South Africa from registering) so if anybody owns the DVDs and could post a transcript for me, I think it could provide a welcome reference to the article. - Phorque 15:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The english DVDs? I own all of them, but I have no interview on any inside cover… Suspicious… ChibiKareshi 08:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, that's weird. I read that in a DVD review... and on some forum. I'll find what I read sometime and show you. - Phorque 08:56, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mamoru Kanbe interview (in Elfen Lied DVD cover)

message: Elfen Lied cast interview
Anyone good with translating japanese? ^^; - Phorque 21:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, Nyū sounds unnatural as hell when you see it spoken by a real person. Anyways, I really only know enough to Japanese to understand everything but what's important, but I don't think it'll contain too much work citing. It's mostly a bunch of stuff like "I was suprised at how well the series was recieved", "it was a lot of hard work". I think.--SeizureDog 11:43, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: I found an interview on youtube...

message: added this portion:
"with a fictional spin on human evolution..."
-intranetusa
::And I changed it to say "the philosophy of", since it is more relevant to what that paragraph discusses. --tjstrf talk 09:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Added

message: I think this article comes pretty close to meeting the Good Article criteria.  However, there are a few things I'd like to see addressed:
*The "Societal Topics" section is very light on references, with only one citation.  What are the other sources discussing its treatment of these topics?
:For now I've simply merged the referenced section of "Societal topics" into "Style" under the anime section. I don't think it detracts much from the articles overall quality, and if other editors would like to include more on style and themes, there is probably sufficient information in the reviews I have cited thus far. - Phorque 12:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Thanks for the tip, didn't think of that! ^^; - Phorque 09:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I have moved and adapted this section under the Anime heading. - Phorque 12:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

text: "Societal topics" could perhaps be renamed to "Themes"? That seems to be the standard...-Malkinann 02:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think there's a need to repeat the plot summary, unless the anime plot is significantly different from the manga plot.  The section on "plot deviations" should be enough to handle the differences, otherwise. Shimeru 19:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA on hold

message: It seems all of my points above were addressed, and I see fair use rationales are in place on the images as well (could've sworn they were before, too; I must have missed one or two).  The article's well-written and referenced, too, with a good amount of out-of-universe material.  At this point, I'm passing it and listing it as a GA.
If you're planning on taking this to FA candidacy, here are my suggestions:
*The "Manga" section is a little bit "listy"; try to convert some of that into prose.  For instance, instead of simply listing the side stories, maybe each could have its own paragraph featuring a brief plot summary?
*Ask for a peer review, or a review from the Anime/Manga Wikiproject, or both.
*See whether there are any sources that might be used to expand the "Reception", "Style and themes", or "Cultural references" sections.  Is there anything special to report about the production of the anime (or manga)?  Can more be said about its influences?  Has it been cited as an influence to any more recent series?  (It may be too recent for that to be clear, though.)  In general, the out-of-universe portion is already excellent, but more detail in this area would serve you better at FA.
*After everything else, but before the FA nomination, do a copyediting pass or two.  Tighten up the prose as much as possible.  Make sure everything's in line with the Manual of Style, and doublecheck grammar, punctuation, and the other technical details.  It might be beneficial to ask someone who's not involved with writing the article to do this.  (I know I sometimes overlook errors in my own prose because I know what I meant to write.)  I'm willing to do this, if you'd like; just drop me a note on my talk page.
Congratulations, and thanks for your work on the article. Shimeru 18:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA

message: Firstly, congratulations on the GA pass. Manga series are far underrepresented in the FA/GA listings when compared to their video game compatriots, nice to see another one pass muster.
But, we still have this irritating standardization issue to deal with. Right now the main page uses Kohta throughout, which while not my preference is in accordance with at least one of the 4 policies on the issue so doesn't bother me. But List of characters in Elfen Lied is still at Kouta. Could we please pick one thing and stick with it? --tjstrf talk 08:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the official romanization is Kohta, as much as I dislike it as well. I went ahead and changed them to Kohta. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 08:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So then what about Ny[ū/u/uu]? Shall we use the official romanization for her name? (Even though Wikipedia leans heavily towards macronization rather than doubling up on the u in most of the articles I have read.) What is the official romanization of her name anyway? --tjstrf talk 19:04, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: K[ō/ou/oh]ta again

message: I'm glad to have found out the ending to the manga which was somewhat different from the anime.   I think someone should post a summary of it...I would but I have trouble reading Japanese.  --~~charizardpal~~
:The ending was different because the anime only covered the first half of the manga (give or take a few chapters). And plot summaries can get lengthy, especially with a series as philosophical as Elfen Lied. Nique talk 14:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Manga Ending

message: Isnt it possible that Lucy was named after Lucy the austrolopithicus? I mean it fits. Lucy(amcestor) was the begining of our species as far as we know and Lucy(Elfen) is the true begining of the Diclonius since she is the first with the ability to reproduce. Just wondering if it coould be added in a genreal trivia section. Luciferian56 01:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless there's a reliable source stating it definitively, it couldn't be added anyway, as it's just speculation on the part of a/a number of fans. Nique talk 01:21, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nique is right, not to mention that Trivia in unencyclopedic, and should definately not be in a Good Article.--十八 02:40, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lucy's Name

message: The article gives the translation of Elfen Lied (the title of the production) to be "Elf Song". However, the number 11 in German translates to "elf", so I believe it to be "Eleventh Song". To further prove my point, in single words (or incomplete phrases) – such as in titles and names – it is common for Germans to attach the adjective to the verb or noun it is describing (hence some very long words in reading). 
Therefore, if Elf Song were to be translated into correct German, it would read something like "Elfenlied" or "Das Elfenlied" (assuming it even translates back to English in the pointy-eared "Elf").
So, what does "Eleventh Song" mean? Heck if I know. Has there ever been an official translation?
:Well, we're guessing Lynn Okamoto just butchered the German in his title... but I'm fairly certain he *is* trying to get "Elf Song" across because the actual lied "Elfenlied" appears in the manga. - Phorque 15:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An alternate translation could be 'eleventh song'. However, Elfenlied is the Elf Song, quite literally, not the Eleventh Song. Since the series was based on Elfenlied, the correct translation is Elf Song. Nique talk 15:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I'll be the first one to admit that my German is a tad rusty, wouldn't "Eleventh Song" be "Das elfte Lied"? --Bakuryuu 18:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Title

message: I don't recall them saying that the head injury caused the split personalities.  Is this just speculation or do we have a reference for that? --Kraftlos 09:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe if it wasn't said directly then it was mostly implied since we see her as a child with no such split personality and the first apperance of Nyu is after she got hit with the bullet.--十八 09:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't remember it being explicitely stated, either. However, seeing as how Lucy was chained in the research lab for several years before this, Nyû would have had little chance to make an appearance. Still, Nyû does learn new things as the story progresses, eventually learning to speak and act normally, so Nyû's state in the beginning would seem to suggest her a rather new arrival. Lucy's third personality, "DNA's voice", first appears in Lucy's childhood, before the events of the story proper, so that, at least, wasn't caused by the bullet. Also, dicloni seem to have a knack for developing alternate personalities when injured, since Mariko goes into a "Myû" state, caused by an explosion, just before her eventual demise. Make of that what you will. --Bakuryuu 13:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not a diclonii trait that's just something anyone would do under extreme stress.  I don't think "DNA's Voice" can properly be described as an alternate personality exactly; it's the aspect of Lucy's wounded pscyhe encouraging her to do bad things.  --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 17:25, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't say just anyone would become a "myû"-saying child from getting hit by a bomb... Anyway, DNA's voice is as much a different personality as Nyû - near the end of the manga, it takes over, causing Lucy to vanish from the diclonius-radar, much like Nyû. Nana identifies it as someone "neither Lucy nor Nyû". --Bakuryuu 18:28, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but the anime and manga are separate continuities.  (I really like the more upbeat anime version, and don't consider them equivalent really).  --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 19:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't realize we we're talking about the anime specifically. Few things are exclusive to the anime, though, and I can't think of anything that would give reason to believe that Nyû would have developed in a different manner in the anime than in the manga. --Bakuryuu 19:25, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Those two are not mutually exclusive, you know... Both versions are nearly identical in the beginning, and the anime simply doesn't get to that point, as the story terminates earlier. I don't think that a fundamental difference exists between the two versions in this matter. --Bakuryuu 22:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

text: For all all intents and purposes, the anime and manga versions are considered 2 separate universes.  --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 00:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Even so, as the appearance of Nyû is portrayed nigh-identically in both, how are different conclusions supposed to be derived from them? --Bakuryuu 05:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mostly because of the anime's divergent ending episodes, but generally, it's just clearly not a direct translation of the manga (i.e. even in volumes that are adapted, Lucy isn't nearly as sadistic in the anime).  --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 06:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree, the plot of most manga differ from their anime counterparts.  There is no cause to make an assumption that something revealed in the manga has any bearing on the plot of the anime.  Thus, the plot section should only contain the plot which is established by the anime.  --Kraftlos 06:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What what? This article is about both the manga and anime. Why should the plot chapter only cover the anime? --Bakuryuu 14:18, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well yeah you can mention it, but while also saying that the manga and anime are different (i.e. don't refer to both interchangeably). --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 20:28, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You really get away with less trouble by first giving the plot for the manga, and then giving an account on how the anime differs. Not many things in the anime which aren't in the manga, but a great deal the other way around. Besides, manga's the original work. --User:130.232.106.17 22:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Split Personality