Talk:Afshar people

message: The Oxford Handbook of Iranian History, p. 308 "Nader Quli was a leader of the Afshar tribe, who were originally Turkoman from Central Asia. However, during the early Safavid period, they lived in Azerbaijan until the seventeenth century, when many of them were relocated to Khorasan." Dougweller (talk) 12:09, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Azerbaijan  issue 

message: "The Afshar tribes of Iran are two distinct Turkic ethnic groups. The larger group is concentrated in the north of the country, and the smaller in the south. The dialect of the Afshar language spoken by the Afshar of the north is closely related to the Azerbaijani language, while the dialect spoken by the southern Afshar is more closely related to the Qashqai language. Many famous Iranian figures are of Afshar origin, and commonly share the "Afshar" surname."
"Anatolian Afshars (Avshar) shared the same history with other Oghuz tribes until entering the Anatolia. Until the 10th century, they are believed to have lived along the banks of the Syr Darya (Seyhun) river and on the northern steppes of the river. Beginning from the 9th century, they started migrating towards west. Avshars are believed to have entered Anatolia after the Battle of Manzikert in 1071. They settled in various places in Anatolia. During the Mongol invasion in the following period, some Avshar tribes migrated to Syria and later formed what was called Halep (Aleppo) Turkmens, which eventually migrated back to Anatolia and settled there."
Avshars are a branch of the Turkic Oghuz groups in Anatolia and Azerbaijan, which are also called Turkmens. These originally nomadic Oghuz tribes moved from Central Asia and finally settled in Azerbaijan and Anatolia.
According to the legends, Oghuz Turks are formed from two main branches: Ucok and Boz ok (meaning Three Arrows and Gray Arrows). These two branches consisted equal numbers of "boy", meaning smaller tribes. Avshar Turkmens are believed to belong to the Gray Arrow branch and Avshar was himself, according to the Oghuz Kagan legend, the son of the Yildizhan (Star-Khan), one of the 6 sons of Oghuz Kagan. (mentioned and listed in Mahmud Kashgari's Divanu-Lugat-it Turk, 11th century).
Avshars shared the same history with other Oghuz tribes until entering the Anatolia. Until the 10th century, they are believed to have lived along the banks of the Syr Darya (Seyhun) river and on the northern steppes of the river. Beginning from the 9th century, they started migrating towards west. Avshars are believed to have entered Anatolia after the Battle of Manzikert in 1071. They settled in various places in Anatolia. During the Mongol invasion in the following period, some Avshar tribes migrated to Syria and later formed what was called Halep Turkmens, which eventually migrated back to Anatolia and settled there. 
Avshars lived under the authority of the State they lived in, but they also formed great local dynasties which behaved independent in internal affairs. Avshars are mentioned as one of the few Oghuz "boy" tribes who had a strong political influence, the others are being the Kayı tribe who founded the Ottoman Empire and Kinik Tribe who founded Seljuk Empire. 
This information needs a source to be placed within the article. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:10, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced information 

message: Merged per the long-standing request, but I simply blanked the other version, as none of it was specifically sourced.  Rescue anything from Avshar Turmen you think is worthwhile. 
Moved because of confusion in the article of what a "tribe" is.  I'm assuming the Avshar were tribal, but that doesn't make them a single tribe.  — kwami (talk) 05:44, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged, moved, and copy-edited 

message: If there is any problems with the reliability of the sources, please discuss it. But removing sourced information is not acceptable. Bests, Ali-al-Bakuvi (talk) 12:21, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: You tell that to the 2-3 editors removing sourced infos. Afshar Warrior (talk) 12:39, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of sourced info 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: No consensus. Two supports and one well-argued oppose; "tribe" is likely to be misunderstood by English speakers. Notwithstanding the supporters' concerns, perhaps a better title is available?  No such user (talk) 12:57, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Afshar people →  – Similar to the 24 Oghuz tribes. Encyclopedia of Islam and Iranica mentions them as a tribe, not people. Beshogur (talk) 15:57, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

text: you confuse "boy" and "oymak" which can be applied as Afshars being a "boy" (tribe) and Alplu being an "oymak" (subtribe/clans). See  and , or more precisely aşiret, equal to a clan. Iranica: ; Enclyclopedia of Islam:  Haven't seen any argument against these. Beshogur (talk) 10:04, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: "...you confuse..."  You're making my point for me.  My opposition to a move was based on just this confusion.  The titles Afshar people, Afshars and Afshars (ethnic group) are all clearer.  The contemporary Afshars are ill fitted to Wikipedia's description of tribe, and as User:Visioncurve notes below, they have been called a people and a nation in other sources.  —  AjaxSmack  03:08, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 25 June 2021 

message: HistoryofIran it states Azerbaijanis AND Turkmens it doesn't state 'or' to make it disputed. There are Azerbaijani khanates of Afshar origin they are very much connected to our history.
:Yes? Azeris and Turkmens aren't part of the same group. You can't belong to several groups, thus it is disputed, and thus adding 'Category:Azerbaijani tribes' is not neutral. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:00, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I am sure there is a separate category for turkmens that you can add as well to make it fair. Like i said, there are khanates of Azerbaijan that are of Afshar origin you can not just state that "its disputed" or that those khanates are actually of central asian turkmen origin, obviously those khanates are not of modern turkmen origin. They were still important part of our people and worth mentioning. Caucasuschan (talk) 14:05, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It has nothing to do about 'fair'. The point is that it is disputed, and thus adding those categories is plain wrong. Also, I'm not stating anything, the sources are. Here we follow WP:RS, not what users think. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:08, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are Qajars in both Azerbaijani and Turkmen catgeories then? You can't just say a certain tribe cant be both things and then make Qajars belong to both Turkmens and Azerbaijanis. Caucasuschan (talk) 14:13, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Which article? It's not like I added it you know. And I don't know why, but that's another issue. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:22, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_Turkmen_people I see your account everywhere so that's why i assumed. My bad :) Caucasuschan (talk) 14:23, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I see. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:29, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: if it's undecided or disputed shouldn't afshars be removed from turkmen catgeory as well? Caucasuschan (talk) 16:29, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: May I ask why you did the exact same here ? --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:47, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: should I remove Turkmen category then or not? besides that, i added it because of inclusion of javanshirs who are connected to afshars, why should I *not* add Azerbaijanis when its listed on the article? and if you dont have a problem with it being associated as Turkmen only despite previously stating that its disputed and shouldn't be categorized as either then adding Azerbaijani category who afshars have obvious ties with wouldn't be an issue either. I just think Azerbaijanis should more or less be added because of javanshirs and the khanates. Caucasuschan (talk) 18:06, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Just remove it then. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:11, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Azerbaijani tribes