Talk:Brent Corrigan/Archive 2

message: *Thany you Radiokirk.  I was unaware of how to use italics.  I believe I have now changed all my capped titles to italics. Please don't confuse lack of knowledge with deliberate flouting of Wiki rules.  I will take orders from you-if you tell me not to do something I will not repeat my error. Thank you. 68.9.171.207 15:32, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, thanks, but I'm hardly giving "orders" to anyone; merely demonstrating the conventions determined by Wikipedians before me who researched style guides and determined a Manual of Style (bits of which I disagree with, BTW [grin]). Meantime, I did not believe you were deliberately "flouting" Wikipolicies. :) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 16:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Italics

message: Please correct to show that Fuck Me Raw was released in July, it is not "to be released in September" as the article currently (innacurately) states.  Also, Take It Like A Bitch Boy another Corrigan bareback video, will be released on September 1. Source-Cobra Video website.68.9.171.207 13:09, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Until now, the Fuck Me Raw DVD is only available in pre-order on the very few online stores that sell it. (To be honest, I have been able to find only one online store that propose that DVD). Even the VOD websites don't propose it. As soon as this title will be available to the public on more websites than Cobra's, the "to be released" note will disappear. --Sam67fr 09:23, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Please show a source for this claim. Which website is offering this video? -- Ec5618 15:46, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The Redlight Video and Badpuppy Video pages (essentially the identical page) say "Available 8.17.06, preorder today." Obviously, that's today's date, and the page source shows it was written that way, not with date coding. Adult DVD Now says "In Stock!" The others include no date. As a result, I believe "(released August 2006)" would have sufficient sources. The article currently does not include any date (except the year) at all, which also is sufficient. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Atleast one of the links prominently proclaims that the video is 'in stock'. To me, that's good enough. Whether or not this video is actually currently available is also rather irrelevant, as this issue will resolve itself automatically in a month or so. Let's leave it at this, and look at the rest of the article. There are still a number of things to be sourced, and a little NPOVing to do. -- Ec5618 21:02, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  No problem for me with that.--Sam67fr 22:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Fuck Me Raw''

message: I just revised the page with a new picture and a with new information from various sources. The picture is used with permission of Brent Corrigan. An emailed statement of this permission is being sent from him, and should arrive by 8/15/06. 
I sourced the additions to the recent GayWebMonkey article about him, which includes more detail about his situation prior to his first porn films, the circumstances around his decisions to do those films, and what happened to him afterwards. Given the strong words on this page, hopefully this sourcing will help prevent another war from erupting. 
Additionally, I also added more subheadings to make the article easier to read. I removed the "likes to skateboard" in the introduction as, according to my reading of Corrigan's website, this doesn't appear to be the case. I also removed the "double penetration" reference from the introduction as well. It just didn't seem to be relevant to the entry, as the major points of Corrigan's story is that he was underage when he made the first films and that those films were primarily bareback. 
I placed a new, recent picture at the top of the article and moved the DVD cover picture down to the section about his underage porn films. It seems to be more germane that way. The new picture does seem a bit large for the page. I don't know if there is a way to size the picture down a bit.  
I wasn't sure how to do "ibids" so the GWM article appears several times in the references section.
In the interests of disclosure, I also wrote the GayWebMonkey article. During my interview with him, he provided even more detail about everything that has happened over the past few years. I didn't think that there was a way to source it without it looking like simple partisanship and violating Wiki neutrality.--Jodyw1 07:16, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice work, though it will need to be cleaned up. Statements such as "He believed that at 16 he 'knew everything.'" are quite unfactual. You may not agree with the way Cobra has handled this situation, but the article will have to give them every benefit of the doubt. -- Ec5618 07:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, even with the source, it's still an opinion stated as fact. Something along the lines of "Corrigan stated in an interview that, at 16, he thought he knew everything." is encyclopedic language, as it is completely factual. -- Ec5618 09:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Writing "He believed..." followed by a citation to the interview where he stated this belief is the same thing. The "interview" text is redundant. But I'm arguing over a quibble. I made the change you requested. But I am right. Always. Even when I'm wrong. --Jodyw1 09:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Be certain that any and all of your "own -Factual revisions" WP:CITE a WP:RS or they will be removed per WP:V, the backbone of Wikipedia, which states, "[t]he threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." RadioKirk (u|t|c) 13:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anonymous, you are welcome to make whatever revisions you'd like. However, you'll need to cite sources for your revisions, as I've done, or your changes will be switched right back.--Jodyw1 15:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updated Picture and Information 

message: * I have added the words  "coupled with his "no holds barred" barred sexual practices (bareback receptive anal sex, semen eating, rimming and receptive double anal penetration)" which provide a glimpse at some of the reasons behind Corrigan's popularity  I have also added the word "all" to clarify that Corrigan has performed in nothing but bareback scenes in all his released material, except for his bottoming scenes with Brent Everett. I will, of course, abide by the moderator's opinion on this added material. Sources-all of Cobra's released videos as listed in the videography; brentcorriganxxx.com which features free clips of Corrigan engaging in rimming, bareback receptive anal sex and eating the semen of another model from Fuck Me Raw and the upcoming Take It Like a Bitch Boy;Corrigan's website on his double penetration-http://www.brentcorriganonline.com/blog/?page_id=5
:: I moved the list of sexual activities down to the more logical section of "Underage videos," changed the wording to be more NPOV, and linked them to other sections of the Wikipedia. "Eating semen" is part of the definition of "fellatio" and "double penetration" is a bit euphemistic. I changed those parts as well. Lastly, I modified the introduction paragraph so that it now summarizes his sexual activities as being "extreme" and shows that he released documentation to the media about his age. The validity of that documentation is for a court to decide.--Jodyw1 03:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Cum Eating" is part of fellatio. I linked to the Wikipedia entry on this as reference. It's also not that uncommon in bareback porn videos. Jodyw1 17:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Please stop referring to others' edits in a content dispute as "vandalism"—if you need a refresher course, please read WP:VAND. Meantime, if you're going to assert that Corrigan is famous as a result of semen consumption (which would be my preferred term; it's neither sanitized nor in-your-face blunt), you'd better find a reliable industry source for the assertion, something I cannot recall seeing during my short time watching this article for neutrality. Meantime, I'm going to take "voluntarily" out of "pulled by Cobra" because it's redundant (that's what "pulled by Cobra" means) and reads like a pro-Cobra press release, a problem of which both sides are guilty. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 22:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added Information

message: * Added clarification that while Cobra voluntarily pulled Corrigan's first 4 video they have  remained on internet auction sites such as Ebay or Naughtybids. Sources: 1. Ebay auction 170018434134 (must be logged onto Mature Audiences)-http://cgi.ebay.com/COBRA-EVERY-POOLBOYS-DREAM-BAREBACK_W0QQitemZ170018434134QQihZ007QQcategoryZ4802QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Ended August 19. 2. Ebay auction 130015879037  http://cgi.ebay.com/Bareboned-Twinks-original-version-GAY-DVD-Cobra_W0QQitemZ130015879037QQihZ003QQcategoryZ4802QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Ended August 13. 68.9.171.207 22:51, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: http://listing-index.ebay.com/actors/Brent_Corrigan.html Reedy Boy 21:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Videography

message: First of all, I find it very repugnant that people are using webmonkey as a "source."  Give me an f-ing break.  Anyone in the "industry" should be quoted as a potential source but not a reliable one.  GAYVN is perhaps the only "respectable" source you're going to find on this article.
This article was very very anti-Cobra and very Pro-Brent.  The fact remains that there is considerable debate about whether or not Brent Corrigans actions were a form of entrapment to the producers of Cobra Video and whether or Cobra Videos subsequent actions have harmed Corrigan.  I know there are several fans of his work on this site, but your job is to report information neutrally and look at all facts, please don't bolster Corrigan just becuase you all think he's hot.  There are always 3 sides to every story! --Julien Deveraux 07:05, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Julien, I modified some of your edits. There were several sections that were unsourced so I pulled those.. One of your changes from "Cobra producer" to "Cobra producers" was factually incorrect. That wasn't what the sourced article said. I left in your requests for citations regarding Cobra's emails and the XXX website. I too have heard of it and have seen such things on occasion. One of the WikiWizards will no doubt know how to do this and do it NPOV style.. Jodyw1 17:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: JodyW, you didn't just MODIFY some of my edits, you REMOVED most of them.  Your disputes based on factual accuracy are again, showing bias becuase you keep saying you "heard."  I work in the adult entertainment industry and have copies of the stuff I'm saying exist.  If there is a way to cite it, please...someone tell me.  Other
rwise, I will load the items as images. --Julien Deveraux 19:53, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Julien Deveraux's Edits

message: *Someone has requested citation for the following pragraph in the article: "Corrigan started his career in pornography in 2004 at Cobra Video, as a young twink model in Every Poolboy's Dream. He quickly became one of Cobra's most famous performers, where his youthful looks and and his apparent display of pleasure when having anal sex; coupled with his "no holds barred" sexual practices (bareback receptive anal sex, semen consumption, rimming and receptive double anal penetration) made him very popular" I will be happy to do so if I can be told which fact the citation is requested for.Tommypowell 15:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can tell you from the standpoint of someone who's been through the WP:WIAFA ringer three times what two things struck me: One, "most famous performers" to whom? Industry experts and/or video sales figures must be cited or "one of [the] most famous" anything is comprised of no more than weasel words. Two, not everyone who reads this article is aware of what constitutes a success in this industry and why (myself included); the second sentence above asserts Corrigan is "very popular" because of these sexual practices and, once again, only expert opinion and/or video sales figures can back that up. What may be a given fact to one person may be controversial to another; that's why WP:V (of which WP:CITE and WP:RS are parts) exists. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:34, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Request For Citation

message: I dont think that that comment is relevant/Valid
Some resellers of XXX dvd's may still list them, but they are stock unavaliable.
From what has been told here, the items are sold on eBay and such, where, if you check the link i posted above, are illegal on eBay. If reported, they would be dealt with and removed accordingly...
Reedy Boy 21:18, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ebay... Thought i posted this  Reedy Boy 08:11, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Videos Still on the Market'' 

message: Could someone with more Wiki knowledge please restore the consensous version of this article before the 22 (yikes!) biased POV Jody revisions.  I am thinking of the pre-Jody version posted, not by me, but by Majestic on August 29. I tried but just garbled the article. Thanks Jody! Tommypowell 01:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reverted the article back to the last readable version. I have no comment on the veracity or bias of the information currently on the page. Wempain 01:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Would someone repost the consensous pre-Jody Page?

message: 1. Corrigan's uninhibited sexual practices: Every Poolboy's Dream, 2004 (Cobra Video) 
Schoolboy Crush, 2004 (Cobra Video), starring with Brent Everett 
Bareboned Twinks, 2005 (Cobra Video), starring with Brent Everett 
Casting Couch 4, 2005 (Cobra Video) 
Cream BBoys, 2006 (Cobra Video) 
Naughty Boy's Toys, 2006 (Cobra Video) 
Brent Corrigan: Fuck Me Raw, 2006 (Cobra Video)
Clips from Take It Like A Bitch Boy, 2006 (Cobra Video)-www.brentcorriganxxx.com
2. The ease of obtaining counterfeit California drivers licenses: 
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/06/02/state/n100321D11.DTL&type=politics
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommypowell (talk • contribs) 
:Sexual practices line removed. That he does it is not the point; it must be demonstrated through a reliable source that those practices are the reason he's "critically top rated and commercially top selling" or the data is superficial. Please see Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 14:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: Tommy, I changed "claims" back to "stated." According to Wikipedia, it's not up to us to verify the absolute truth of statements, only to verify that they were stated and to link to that source. Corrigan stated that he grew up in Seattle, he stated he had an affair, he stated he lied about his age, etc. The sources for those statements are linked. They can be verified by any Third-party. If there is another verifiable source that you can link to that shows he did not grow up in Seattle, etc., then add it to the entry.Jodyw1 17:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, all, avoid attributing generalities to me following my specific changes. Thank you. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 23:56, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Stated" vs. "Claims"

message: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." This is policy, not a guideline. All the sources in the world stating that someone does something do not necessarily make that person famous for that something—a recognized industry expert has to say so, or it's one editor's supposition, which can be removed at any time. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 13:53, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: One Moderator's advice

message: Okay, how about this.  The sections claiming that there are "ongoing lawsuits" should be deleted.  Why?  Because no one on either side of this argument has provided a clickable link to what should be a public matter.  Legal records anyone?  --Julien Deveraux 09:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Julien, scroll to the "Lawsuits" section of the article. There are several verifiable sources showing the lawsuits began. There are no sources showing the lawsuits have ended. If you know of any, including from the Viperlist, add them to the article.Jodyw1 05:09, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Challenge 

message: Vipemailer.com provides archived copies of the emails sent out by Cobra Video to their fanlistings and can now be cited as a source, right Jody? LOL --Julien Deveraux 09:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copies of E-mails 

message: Hi,
You've got a day or so to provide a citation of the source before i am removing this as per the blp at the top
Reedy Boy 22:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please sign your comments 
     = Biographies of living persons
Thanks for the citation - Can someone add it? Jody??
Reedy Boy 12:06, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tommypowell:  Cobra Video Response 

message: Began process to bring this article more in line with Wiki Project Biography standards, which included adding dates and location to intro paragraph, the appropriate boxes and fields, as well as listing Corrigan with the biography work groups.  The info box for pornstars only allows one link to the "official" home page. Since there are two dueling pages, I left it out, but did add the link to the imdb home page.Jodyw1 05:15, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProjectBiography

message: *Please note there is no attempt to link this sentence to Corrigan's popularity-just like there is no attempt to do so for his 10th grade dating habits, parental grudges, film school fantasies or vapid philosophising ("not everybody is all into  evil or drugs").
*Sources: Corrigan as first ever Cobra double penetration scene-http://www.adonisent.com/graphics_pages/dvd8004.html; Also, see Corrigan's own site-http://www.brentcorriganonline.com/blog/?page_id=5 " Though I wasn’t in complete pain, I was uncomfortable. Will I do it in the future? Possibly." http://www.gay-porn-stars.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=31 "Corrigan underlined his role as bottom boy in anal sex in a double penetration scene in Schoolboy Crush" and many more on request. Corrigan in rimming scenes-http://www.adonisent.com/graphics_pages/dvd8004.html, http://www.hisxpress.com/fuck-me-raw-cobra-dvd.html-"Skylar then lays Brent on a bench and sucks his cock, then lifts up his leg to rimm and stick his tongue inside Brent's guy pussy."
Corrigan swallowing semen-http://theater.aebn.net/dispatcher/movieDetail?movieId=58391&tab=Reviews&theaterId=7205-"It didn't take long for Connor to squirt his cream deep down Brent's throat" http://www.maledvd.ca/product_info.php?products_id=3124 "Connor pulls out and jacks a bit to squirt his cream deep down Brent's throat". Tommypowell 14:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I sure ive read it somewhere, but the double penetration was/is a fake i believe Reedy Boy 15:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Ah ok, may have been something else similar... Will have to read them when i have moer time Reedy Boy 20:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Reedy, BC has written that most of the double scene was faked. It was a few seconds of footage looped over and over again. He's also written about how much he hated some of the other activities too. There's probably a way to put all of that into the Wiki article. Jodyw1 20:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

text: See Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Peer review/Brent Corrigan, the peer-review an editor asked, for my comments on your dispute.--Yannismarou 18:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Responded to you there.Jodyw1 20:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: First Ever Double Penetration

message: If someone wants to delete the Corrigan/Lockhart link please provide a rationale here. Tommypowell 12:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Tommy, I probably agree with you that the the Cobra website needs to be a part of this article. It's relevant to everything that's gone on. Jodyw1 04:47, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion of Cobra Web Site

message: Is having Carson's name in the article relevant? I don't see the point, unless people think there should be a section devoted to his business partners? If not,  and if people don't want to delete it, then the sentence needs to be changed to something more manageable. As it is, it reads awkward. Jodyw1 04:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jeremy Carson

message: For Gods sake
Why is this happening again...
We're gonna have to get it protected again if this carries it on....
Reedy Boy 21:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers to radiokirk for the protect again Reedy Boy 10:39, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert War