Talk:Louisville, Kentucky/Archive 2

message: Is there some reason the facts and figures section quotes the figures from the 2000 Census, which now refer to an entity that no longer exists?  As of 2003 Louisville consists of 26 districts, no subset of which corresponds to the old city limits.  So the 2000 Census info refers to an entity that no longer exists in any way, shape, or form.  Can't somebody just put in the 2000 Census figures for Jefferson county, since Louisville == Jefferson now under Kentucky law (regardless of a soon-to-be-corrected error by the Census bureau)?
The difference between Louisville in the "governmental" sense and "Louisville" in the Census sense is entirely different. I agree that the entire county should be counted, but the Census for some reason excludes the other cities in the county (i.e. Jeffersontown) for numbers purposes only because they still count those cities seperate from the rest of Louisville.
One example is when Jacksonville, Florida consolidated with Duval County in 1968, The 1970 Census counted the entire county, although there were four other incorporated places in the county. For some reason, they seperate Jacksonville from the towns during the 1980 census.
So in actuality, You have "two" populations for Louisville. One for the "entire-county" and the other for "census purposes" only. Hope this will answer any of your questions :)--Moreau36
P.S. I will need to find the 2000 census revision for Louisville, then I'll post it ASAP.
Well, if you had been following the story in the Courier, you would know that the "two populations" situation is the result of a "miscommunication" between the Jefferson county commissioners office, and the Census Bureau.  The Census Bureau has already stated that this error will be corrected starting with next year's Census figures (that is, the 2005 figures) at which point Louisville will in fact be the 16th largest city, just like all the road signs say.
*If other cities within the county were not part of the merger, then they are not part of the city for population figures. The figures for metropolitan areas are entirely different. What's up? Did the other cities join Louisville or not? --JimWae 06:25, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of Figures from the 2000 Census 

message: *Louisville's 2004 population estimates as given by the U.S. Census Bureau. The Census Bureau separate Louisville from other cities in the county for statstical purposes only. --Moreau36; 0340; 6 September 2005 (EDT/AST)
I can only relate this situation to that of the former USSR.  USSR was a Federal Republic with approx 15 constituant republics.  But when it came time for UN designation, it was agreed that Ukraine, and Belarus would also have delegates to the UN so effectively they maintained that the USSR was a country, but so were the Ukraine and Belarus.  As I understand this great debate.  Jefferson County has municipalities other than Louisville.  That the merger of Louisville and the county was with the unincorporated portions of the county.  The government would have county functions of the larger territory - sheriff, county taxation etc.  Certain the "old louisville and old rural" parts of the county would have city services.  To avoid duplication of services formerly incorprated towns were not disolved but retained.  They continued their own city services, and the old county services they received are from the new Metro Louisville.
I can see why this is driving statisticians crazy.  Is generic Louisville the county population or the county population less the intraterritorial incorporated entities.
When New York City merged with 4 other counties, the counties became burroughs, and if there were any incorporated townlets, they were merged into the Big City.  The us vs them compromise which was to alleviate the fears of the outer burroughs of being dominated by "New York" now Manhattan was that each Burrough has a president and they each had a vote in some matters.  - Much like the senate of the US.  Wyoming and California have the same number of votes in the senate.  However.  Whith no representational form of the burrow presidential system, it was decided that it denied equal representation to the more populous burroughs.
Louisville/Jefferson's solution was to keep its old suburbs as separate territories.  I do not see any way to rectify the debate of how big is Louisville when this issue is still there.   I do not think anyone that is paying attention, really thinks city (proper) Population is an indicator of size of metro population any more than geographic area is an indicator of population size.  Eg The are of sitka alaska is huge, while its population is tiny.
Lexington was lucky in that it had no incorporated towns to dissolve or absorb.  There were "census designated places" as they would be called today, but officially they were all unincorporated county.  An odd adendum to this was, prior to the merger, there were pockets of county completely surrounded by the city of Lexington.  When a crime was committed within those enclaves, county police or sheriffs would have to respond, not the, often closer, City police.  Currently Lexington has a we/them urban rural dichotomy.  With zoning laws, the rural will largely stay rural, and the urban services zone should expand and infill.    
The passion of this debate reminds me of school boys showing off to each other behind the gym.  #16 #26 #1?  Its still bigger than Lexington, and isn't that what it was all about in 2004?  Not many people in Lexington cared in 2000 when the pop. figures put Lex. slightly ahead of Lou. for the first time since, possibly, the 18th century.  I think the 'villians had a regan-head-spinning moment with that reality.  Instant Merger - and now the great size debate.
Gosh this got long.  sorry 'bout that. --K3vin 00:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: All I know is the now entering Jefferson county signs were all replaced with Entering Louisville (with more name junk?), America's 16th largest city. Zotel - the Stub Maker 12:57, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  2004 Population Estimates Conflict 

message: Just saying excellent job on the article from a small town down here in Glasgow, KY! The Wookieepedian 00:09, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Work!

message: I almost reverted that too, though I did find this :
Louisville Mayor Jerry Abramson and the citizens of Louisville recognized Leeds as a “Friendship City” at the Sister Cities of Louisville 2004 Summit. Both cities are working towards a formal Sister Cities agreement with Leeds in the near future.
As of April 11, 2005  it still doesn't seem to be official.  Just putting this here since I went to the trouble of finding it all.  --W.marsh 23:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leeds sister city 

message: The article claims jazz is featured on WFPL.  I've been away from Louisville for several months, so maybe there's been a format change since I've been gone ... but as far as I know 89.3 no longer features any music.  Can someone still in the area confirm this? 68.34.41.188 05:25, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct. WFPK is jazz and other music. WFPL is all news. – Quadell (talk) 13:45, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: WFPL = jazz?

message: I'm from Louisville and have a Jewish father and grow up going to the Jewish Community Center and I can tell you that most Jews in Louisville are of Russian and Eastern European origin, including our Mayor Jerry Abramson (comes from the Russian Abramovich). In fact I don't think I have ever meant a Jewish person of German distant in Louisville.
My husband grew up in Loisville and his father is of Russian and Polish Ashkenazic origin. My mother is Sephardic Spanish origin. I am not from there but lived there three years and we have never met a person of german Jewish descent either.--Dakota 21:47, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Most Jews are German?

message: I reverted it the first time but the anon has added it back (without discussion).  Does anyone care about the mention of the Downtown Louisville Blog in the external links section?  Personally I'd say move it to Downtown Louisville if it's to be kept at all.  --W.marsh 03:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No at any rate.  The blog was just created this month, and thus has very little content.  I can't imagine why anyone would think that it's notable. — Stevie is the man! Talk | Work 05:03, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keep the blog? 

message: If you are a regular maintainer of this article, please add your name to the new Maintained template at the top.  To add another name, place ", " after "", and so forth. — Stevie is the man! Talk | Work 05:39, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New 'Maintained' tag

message: Is to not include misleading rubbish, or at a bare minimum, allow it to be noted as disputed, since I consider it to be inaccurate for the reasons that I have stated time and again. I will abide by the decision, but excluding places inside the county goverment that are subject to and a part of said county is the height of lunacy. The population for Lousvile includes ALL persons in the county, since they are ALL subject to that governemenent.
----
:I think part of the controversy can be culled directly from your statement.  The government is indeed a county government.  The towns that still exist within the county have city or town governments.  The rest, is what I would call urbancounty - which is what Lexington considers itself.  I do not think the census is trying to undercount the residents of Jefferson County, I just think some people think counting a person twice is  not correct nor fare to the cities that do not have even the remotest justification for doing so.  If for example, three cities merged with one half of each other.  each city has a population of 100,000.  the metro has a population of 300,000.  But to use the "subject to the government" argument, each city would now have 200,000 people.  They would have their own 100,000 original, and 50,000 from each of the other two.  But there are still only 300,000 people total.  But if you count each of the three cities populations you would get 600,000 because in each of the 200,000 figure there are people counted twice.  Just like with Metro Louisville.  One county of 500,000 people cannot rightfully have a city (L-Vill) with a population of 500,000 and 99 lesser cities with a range of 199 to 35,500, totalling say 150,000 people.  Doing so would suggest the county would then have 650,000 people, which no one says is the case.  Some people say - since the county is the city, the county population should be the population.  Others are saying, until the other enclave municipalities are not also counted as cities, then only the portions of "old Louisville" and the formerly unincorporated territories are the "city" population.  I do not think it is fair to have it both ways.  What seems to be at stake is a bragging rights of how big a city is.  Metro pop is what counts or msa csa or what not.  True city population is an inherently deceiving statistic.  K3vin 09:38, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I support the compromise that existed before.  Louisville is the 16th largest city, but due to the providing of incorrect data to the Census Bureau, it's currently listed as the 26th.  This is a temporary glitch in the Census data that will be corrected the next time they release figures.  This was reported in the Courier-Journal, as noted above.  Perhaps a better approach to all this will be to thoroughly explain the dispute in the article--not to pretend the dispute doesn't exist. — Stevie is the man! Talk | Work 04:25, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "The most recent Census estimate for Louisville is 556,332, placing it as the 26th largest city in the U.S. For consolidated city-counties like Louisville, the Census does not include other incorporated places in the county. If these other places were included, Louisville would have the same population as Jefferson County - 700,030 - and  it would be the 16th largest city. While this ranking has been widely reported in the local media, and even appears on road signs posted at the city limits, it is not supported by Census methodology."
Denvoran 08:12, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  My vote