Talk:Vignette (road tax)

message: Is there any real reason for this article not to be merged into Toll roads in Europe? Unless anyone's using the stickers outside of Europe, I see no point in having two different lists, we just get duplication or partial information in each article. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 22:26, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge into Toll roads in Europe? 

message: It is self evident that the unit referred to in this article (vehicle mass) is the (metric) tonne rather than the imperial long or short ton. RashersTierney (talk) 09:18, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I hate it too when everything isn't specified to the letter, so I have added the word "metric" to refer to the correct definition of metric ton (1000 kilograms). I hope this will put your struggle that has lasted over the past 3 years finally to rest. 190.213.15.141 (talk) 15:27, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hardly a three year struggle, but it does appear to address the issue per the usage outlined at the article Tonne. RashersTierney (talk) 19:35, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Ton or tonne

message: Why has this article been butchered with many images being removed without explanation? JG Murphy (talk) 22:27, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of images 

message: The vignettes described in the France section have nothing to do with toll stickers. It was just the way to prove that you paid your car tax. As a tourist you never had to pay a vignette. France always used toll booths on their motorways. I think the same is true for the vignettes in Montenegro. --93.130.151.77 (talk) 22:59, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  vignettes / car tax 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: That the following text be reinserted as an extra paragraph at vignette (road tax)#Switzerland.
:"As Switzerland only offers a CHF 40 (€35.75) yearly option, Their vignette is the most expensive in Europe for transiting passenger car drivers.  Other countries offer a vignette valid for much shorter periods, which cost less than the Swiss version."
This claim is fully backed by the linked reference which expands to , which carries vignette pricing for the whole of Europe and fully confirms that because Switzerland is the only country not to offer vignettes valid for shorter periods than a year, then it is the most expensive country in Europe to transit across in one or two days. 
Note User:ZH8000 refutes this claim but has not produced any evidence that the provided reference is wrong but has reverted the claim 5 times against multiple editors. This should therefore be considered by a neutral user. 86.149.136.154 (talk) 17:18, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. This is advocacy for a position on a road tax and therefore violates the WP:NPOV policy.   Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:24, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit request

message: This article explains the basics of the vignette system in each country, and documents the costs of fines for not complying. However, only for Switzerland is the price of the vignette mentioned, plus an opinion of their system being unfair compared to others because they do not offer short-term options for tourists. If editors want to make an informative comparison, they should list prices and conditions for every country. Saying that Switzerland is the most expensive country for a single transit is evidently false, as several countries charge much higher prices via highway tolls. In fact, one year of driving in Switzerland costs about as much as a one-way trip from Paris to Lyon. The phrase added via the above discussion should be amended to only mention that visitors to Switzerland must pay the yearly tax, but refrain from attempting to compare this situation with other countries. — JFG talk 11:38, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. But I'm really surprised to hear that the French autoroute has become that expensive. I remember that segment being about 8 euros. But that could be an old memory. Eric talk 14:51, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Paris–Lyon is about 35 € for a standard vehicle. France is broke, they are milking drivers with tolls and radars. — JFG talk 16:10, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry fellas. We have to go with what the sources say. Reference 2 documents the costs for all the countries in the Europe area (and there are many other sources available). Working out the most expensive is a matter of simple subtraction. That you recall paying about €35 is original research as is any unsupported claim that France is broke. Now if you can provide a source, that is a different matter. TheVicarsCat (talk) 17:20, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Re: €35 for Paris–Lyon, I don't "recall paying"; I looked it up before posting. €34.80 exactly per official site. Re: France is broke, that was a joke. — JFG talk 03:32, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

text: It's not a valid claim anyway. You can cross France in any direction you like with out paying a single cent. Just don't use the toll motorways (not all of them are toll anyway). But you cannot cross the border into Switzerland without a vignette. All border crossings are staffed. Not to check your passport of luggage (Switzerland is a Schengen country), but to check that you have a valid vignette displayed (and they will insist on selling you one if you don't). 86.149.136.154 (talk) 17:42, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Remember, gang, this is just a talkpage. Re OR: In a strict view , one might say I led JFG a tad off the topic into a side conversation; however I don't see any attempt by JFG to make an encyclopedic assertion about France's finances. Some more "OR" re crossing into Switzerland: Unless things have changed in the past couple years, you don't need a vignette to travel on anything but the limited-access highways (autoroutes/Autobahnen). Eric talk 23:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

text: @IP86, you are incorrect: there are hundreds of border crossings into Switzerland that do not require buying the vignette. Only border crossings on motorways make this mandatory. You can also cross the country without paying, by using regular roads. They are nice roads.  — JFG talk 03:35, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

text: @IP86, one more detail: the Schengen zone has enacted free movement of people, so indeed your passport will not in general be checked, however your baggage may be checked because Switzerland is not part of the EEA customs union: there is no free movement of goods. — JFG talk 03:39, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The statements made by the IP-hopper (here 86.149.136.154) are simply undereducated nonsense. One gets the impression that he only intends to release his own frustration. Of course you can traverse Switzerland without any vignette. Of course you can not drive on the motoways then. As a consequence, the traverse from Chiasso to Basel takes more than 8 hours instead of 2.5 on motoways only. And of course you can cross into Switzerland wirthout any vignette. E.g. tens of thousands of cross-border commuters do this on a daily basis. Besides there is also a customs check going on Swiss borders. -- ZH8000 (talk) 14:44, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Thank you @JFG, that's very much my idea. -- ZH8000 (talk) 14:45, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why treat Switzerland differently? 

message: (Moved from User talk:JFG)
You may have missed the discussion on the talk page, but it has been established that the Swiss vignette represents the most expensive country in Europe to make a day crossing because the vignette is only available in a yearly version. There was a consensus on the talk page for the claim and was generally accepted as fully supported by the comparisons in references in the article.
There is a problem in that a single Swiss user ZH8000 is determined to remove the claim (probably for nationalistic reasons), and keeps coming up with various references that dispute the point (always misrepresented). His latest offering is a site that purports to show that crossing Denmark is more expensive than Switzerland.Michelin journey planner Unfortunately he has, once again, misrepresented the source he has used because he has used a journey starting in Denmark but ending in Sweden, thus including the most expensive toll bridge/tunnel in Europe connecting Denmark to Sweden (approx. €60). He claims that bridges represent equivalent natural barriers to the mountains in Switzerland (something the source does not support so that certainly is an unsubstantiated opinion). In any event: they are not equivalent because the bridges in Denmark require the payment of tolls to cross (about €20 for the actual Danish bridges that he included), whereas the mountain roads in Switzerland can be traversed for free or, if not, are included in the vignette. 86.146.209.211 (talk) 18:08, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: @IP86:I have participated in talk page discussions before, and I have seen no consensus to state as fact in the article that the Swiss road tax is the "most expensive in Europe for a day crossing". Indeed, this assertion is patently false, as several countries have higher costs for a single crossing than Switzerland has for a year's worth of highway use. This is why I removed this content, stating it was an unsupported opinion. The article should only state what the costs and options are in various countries, and let readers make their own opinion. If you want to include a Europe-wide comparison text, that should be well-supported by sources, not consist of WP:SYNTHESIS picking some costs here and there and making a statement about which of them are most expensive for a particular use case. I will revert to the neutral version now. — JFG talk 07:46, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  The references currently in the article show that Switzerland is the most expensive for a day crossing and there is multiple agreement for that. Several claims (and supposed references) have been made that such and such a country is more expensive, but in every case, it has transpired that the reference (as in the case of the Denmark claim) has been misrepresented. If you believe that a country is more expensive, then which country is it; how much does it cost, and where is the proof. As it stands, the references provided state that Switzerland is the most expensive. 86.146.209.211 (talk) 14:58, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swiss road tax