Talk:Vilnius/Archive 5

message: I'd like to invite you to take part in bashing the rules for geographical naming in Central/Eastern Europe. Take a look here: Wikipedia:Naming conventions/Geographic names. --Lysy (talk) 20:39, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Geographical naming policy

message: Do you like it? 'cause I plan to put it on the other 102 cities in Lithuania. So speak now before it's too late :) Renata3 19:43, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Very nice. --Lysy (talk) 19:52, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New infobox

message: There was a period of Lithuanization of Wilno, not mentioned here.
Xx236 13:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Find reliable sources and put that in! It is Wiki, you can edit it. Renata3 15:07, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1939/1940 Lithuanization 

message: This page should be renamed to “Vilno” without any references to “Vilnius” - to keep it consistent. 55 famous Vilnians and only one with Lithuanian surname can fit only polish POV.
:Well, that might be because Lithuanians made only a marginal fraction of the city's population until WW2. Why does it upset you ? --Lysytalk 07:10, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Come on. Nobody thinks that Vilnius should be part of Poland. Wake up, we are in 21st century, not in 1920. Lithuania and Poland are not enemies but friendly neighbours now. --Lysytalk 17:45, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I think the  list is good in that it shows that Vilnius was not just some small town, but an important city rich in multicultural history. The fact that most of the people mentioned were Polish or Jewish is only because majority of the population of the city was Polish and Jewish, nothing more. The fact that population of a city was of some other ethnicity does not mean that the city should belong to Poland or Israel :-). A similar example might be Gdanskas, where most of the population for many years was German, yet the city was historically Polish. I undestand why this might be disturbing to see the list of all these Polish names. I'd be happy to see more famous Lithuanian people from Vilnius mentioned. Do you have any ideas of how to do it ? --Lysytalk 19:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

text: P.S. See the earlier discussion at #Polish painter above. --Lysytalk 19:13, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I remember it was me to post the first list of the famous people born there. Eventhough it would perfectly fit any encyclopedia, we decided not to harass anyone's national feelings and avoided adding their nationality in all cases except for poets and writers, where their language is indeed notable. If that is not balanced - then what is your proposal? Halibutt 16:15, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  VILNO 

message: I think I've read that the first regular bus and trolleybus lines were established in 1920s, not in 1945, but I'll need to check the sources for this. --Lysytalk 07:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Checked it: first regular buses in 1926. --Lysytalk 11:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, I wanted to say that the last year the bus company celebrated its 60th anniversary. It considers itself launched in 1945. Renata 16:47, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see. I don't know what to do about this. Is it important that a company celebrated its 60th anniversary ? Is there only one bus company in Vilnius ? Or the oldest existing one celebrated 60th annicersary of operations ? Any suggestions ? --Lysytalk 17:07, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nah, it's not important. It's just that I was looking at the bus company website and it had this flashy banner, oh, look, we'are 60 year old! :) There is a number of private bus companies, but they were established after the independence and are quite small. This one is owned by the Vilnius city municipality and forms the backbone of the public transport system. There is only one municipal bus company. (Well, there is TOKS which runs buses between cities). I hope it's clear now. Renata 17:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Strange thing, though quite understandable. On the other hand in Poland, in formerly German towns, such city authorities usually celebrate the anniversaries of "tramways in XXX" rather than "Polish tramways in XXX". But perhaps it's just a matter of different levels of "touchiness" in Poland and Lithuania... Halibutt 20:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Vilnius won't be the same without the ol' Soviet-era trollybuses, crammed to the walls with Lithuanian strap-hangers!  Sca 15:54, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Public transport 

message: There should be a section on city (municipal) government.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 19:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  City government 

message: Vilna redirects to this page, but Vilna also refers to a town in the province of Alberta, Canada. can somebody fix that redirect or provide a link to the town somewhere on the page? Thanks
. --MyLegAlta 21:13, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vilna redirects to Vilnius.....but shoulnd't 

message: No, the majority run away and/or was expelled.
Xx236 09:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Repatriation in this context is a weasel term, even though well-established. How can you re-patriate someone by expelling him from his homeland? Technically speaking it was rather a depatriation... //Halibutt 08:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  have repatriated  

message: Wit the help of the Home Army.
Xx236 09:37, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...that got guns form Germans  shot on occasion few Lithuanians, and peacefully surendered to Red Army after what was disarmed and interned.--Lokyz 10:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  In July 1944 Vilnius was retaken by the Soviet Army.  

message: Absurd.
Xx236 09:46, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth place of Archbishop Blessed Jurgis Matulaitis-Matulevicius, M.I.C. 

message: Maed, your new sentence has big stylistic errors (at least I think so):
Municipal rights were granted to Vilnius by Jagello, the then King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania, the ruler of the area (Władysław II Jagiełło, Lithuanian: Jogaila; Polish: Jagiełło, Belarusian: Jahajlo) in 1387.
Why you are not linking Jagello with main article?
Is   - the- then  sounds to you correctly? 
Why you placed the ruler of the area? This is unnecessary part of sentence. 
Why name lineup  (Władysław II Jagiełło, Lithuanian: Jogaila; Polish: Jagiełło, Belarusian: Jahajlo) is made in this place? In this way, lineup is misleading the readers; because it looks like Jagello and (Władysław II Jagiełło etc.) are different persons. Make this lineup directly after mentioning Jagello name. 
I could try to edit this, but I do not understand the goal of your new edit, you could explain it on my talk or by mail, maybe we could find even the better solution after your explanations.
Until then I will leave the old sentence. M.K.
:Calgacus, made a day! Good job! M.K. 08:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentence

message: Thank you for moving the lead into the 21st century. Dr. Dan 17:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bravo Mikkalai

message: The See also: section was full of irrelevant trivia, with an almost intentional provocative quality. Am I supposed to want know the ethnic composition of Wroclaw or Szczecin or Jelenia Góra in 1928. Should the football teams of German Silesia prior to WW II be added to every article of every currently Polish held city? I think not! Dr. Dan 02:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of Irrelevant Nonsense

message: I don't think we need it here: "Bialystok, 20 parishes and stations, 101,761 souls; Bielsk, 20 parishes, 66,125 souls; Brest, 3 parishes, 14212 souls; Dzisna, 15 parishes, 66,536 souls; Giedrojce, 13 parishes, 58,813 souls; Grodno, 20 parishes, 58,116 souls; Kobryn, 2 parishes, 7925 souls; Lida, 14 parishes, 65,100 souls; Merecz, 20 parishes, 82,948 souls; Nadwilejski, 8 parishes; 41,053 souls; Oszmiana, 11 parishes, 61,032 souls; Prwjany, 7 parishes, 11,648 souls; Radun, 15 parishes, 83,451 souls; Slonim, 7 parishes; 30,337 souls; Sokolka, 14 parishes, 75,709 souls; Swienciang, 19 parishes, 93,716 souls; Swir, 11 parishes, 48,266 souls; Troki, 20 parishes, 88,856 souls; Vilna (city), 30 churches and chapels, 141,104 souls; Vilna (district), 9 parishes, 52,690 souls; Wilejka, 10 parishes, 35,783 souls; Wisniew, 15 parishes, 83,900 souls" 
I do not think it should be in Wiki at all. Copy pasting 100 year old article into modern Wiki compromises quality a lot. But if you can't live without it it was moved to Archidiocese of Vilnius. Good luck editing this mess. Encyclopaedia Editing Dude 07:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copy pasting

message: I wanted to explain this edit of mine.  started changing the sentence:
:After the uprising all civil liberties were withdrawn, and the Lithuanian and Polish languages were banned.
into:
:After the uprising all civil liberties were withdrawn, and the Lithuanian was banned.
Since he did not explain his edit, nor did he engage in any discussion, after a couple of reverts, I've decided to doublecheck the sources. The book (by Lithuanian historians) that I have at hand stated that Muravyov actually banned Polish language and that Lithuanian was banned only in writing (and only in Latin alphabet). Hence my edit. I think this may need to be expanded but probably in History of Vilnius or History of Lithuania rather than this article. --Lysytalk 11:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you mind digging up more info on that? How local was the ban? How long did it last? Was Belarussian also banned (as sentence previously indicated)? Renata 12:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ban on Lithuanian writing was issued by interior minister and approved by Tsar, ban was formally issued by interior minister`s edict. I will add ref later. M.K. 13:03, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All right, as for the source that I mentioned, it says that Polish was completely banned (in print but also public use etc.) while Lithuanian was only banned in print unless it used Cyrillic alphabet. So, according to it, it was Latin (and later Blackletter) that was banned, not Lithuanian language, while Polish was banned altogether. I'm not sure if this discussion belongs to this article, probably to History of Lithuania instead. --Lysytalk 13:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ban on Lithuanian writing M.K. 13:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am happy to restore "and Lithuanian" to the article while you're looking for sources to support it. I would however be also thankful for some support of Lithuanian editors against the pushy edits of User:Hundred. I feel rather uncomfortable being the one reverting his edits, as this puts me in "Polish vs Lithuanian" role, which I do neither appreciate nor enjoy. --Lysytalk 13:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried to find some additional and specific works of Aleksandravičius and Kulakauskas,  I find some of them which  Lysy (btw, do you read in LT?) presented to as, but only in different publication. There are references of Lithuanian writing ban, forced use of Cyrillic, about edict etc. So I wondering do we need to expand a bit part of it adding this specific info of writhing ban instead of general language ban, but in another hand he listed the key moments of  rusification  policy which effected Polish “or more exactly Polish-Lithuanians self determination movement..”; also noting usage of languages in church ? M.K. 17:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if I understand you right, but I'd suggest we use this information to expand the History of Lithuania article rather than Vilnius (where we should keep the "history" section rather small and concise). I do not read Lithuanian, I can only understand individual words. I have a Polish translation of the book, but I referred to the original title in Lithuanian so that it's easier for you to find the book and maybe verify it. This is also why I was not able to refer to exact page numbers. --Lysytalk 18:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Regarding your ref, I believe you should add the original ref from which you quoted or used material M.K. 20:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. I think you are right, although I believe the Lithuanian original would be better if anyone has access to it. --Lysytalk 22:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, you got my support, just not always have time to revert. If he edits again without any explanations, I am thinking of a block. Renata 10:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I blocked him for 3 hours. Renata 11:35, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I think it was catholics, not Polish orgin people.--Lokyz 12:54, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, according to the book that I cite, the program mentioned "Polish origin", which in practice meant "all the Catholics", which eventually translated to "ethnic Lithuanians too". This at least is how the authors put it. --Lysytalk 13:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Explanation of Lysy's revert of Hundred's edits. 

message: Here is a good reference that explains how Vilnius avoided becoming part of the Belarusian SSR: .-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  04:18, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vilnius (not) in the BSSR

message: Vilna redirects here yet nothing is said directly about it.  From the bits I presume it is an older name, perhaps in one of the non-Lithuanian languages.  More reference to Vilna would enhance this article.  A-giau 06:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Shshsh... Don't you know the Wikipedia etiquette? People should pump Polish, Estonian, Finnish, Chinese (!) etc names into leads of articles about Russian towns (such as Pskov), but don't you dare mention a Russian spelling in the article about a city which has been part of Imperial Russia for centuries! --Ghirla -трёп- 08:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vilna