Talk:Kansas City (disambiguation)

message: If Kansas City is indeed (as stated on this page) just one city divided over two states, then why not make this page the page about Kansas City, and have the other two pages redirect to it? Or am I wrong? jheijmans
:The statement is incorrect. The two cities are now very separate; each with thir own police departments, city councils, mayors etc. I also read-up on the history of Kansas City, Missouri and didn't see any indication that they were ever one city. --maveric149 
While the city in general is divided between states (ie., separate) .... it does have interrelated facets [an example is the NA football team, located in Mo, but claimed by Kansans as much as those from Mo]. Being a bi-state area, there are several things that KC'ian share between the 2. The pioneers settled, IIRC, on the missouri side 1st [being the 1st stop on the movement west] ... but they also settled in around KCKS during the same time. It was basically concurrent. I'll in the future edit the page to do a bi-state phenonomena [and dab the other meanings in that article].  JDR 18:37, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: City divided

message: There sure are a lot of links to this page. How about moving this page to Kansas City (disambiguation) and making Kansas City a real article? Or redirecting Kansas City to one of the other "Kansas City" articles? What do you think? Ewlyahoocom 03:01, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A bit late, but I think that redirecting to the Metropolitan Area is the best thing to do. Someone searching for "Kansas City" may want either KCK or KCMo, and outsiders especially may not know at first that there are two cities by that name just across the river from one another. (Believe it or not, some people are not aware of the presence of both Kansas City KS and MO.) Redirecting to the metro article easily solves this problem. It also avoids misinforming people who are really looking for KCK and end up at the KCMO page. And it also avoids upsetting KCK residents who can get quite vocal about being excluded in favor of KCMO. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 08:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I don't really have an opinion on KCMA vs KCMO but based on this edit I got to thinking maybe we should just move Kansas City (disambiguation) to Kansas City. Maybe a redirect is better though, I was just wondering what other peoples opinions were. Stardust8212 14:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Umm, I wouldn't claim consensus quite yet.  Two editors support a redirect to Kansas City, Missouri, Three editors support a redirect to Kansas City Metropolitan Area, and one editor supports change to a Disambiguation page.  I don't feel two terrible strongly on this issue, but seeing as it is undecided as of yet, lets figure it out on the talk page before anything gets changed.Grey Wanderer | Talk 19:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just as a interesting aside, virtually everything that links here is meant to go to Kansas City, Missouri.Grey Wanderer | Talk 19:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll throw a vote to make it point to the Metro area- having lived in the area most "outsiders" don't realize there's a separation until it's explained to them (see the confusion above on this talk page) and most people who live in the area ignore the distinctions unless they're particularly active in politics or forced to notice. Heck, some people don't realize that the other cities and townships that comprise the metro area mean anything more than different zip codes do within a given city. Now, that isn't to say those separations aren't important- but it does imply that assumption that it should link to a particular city in the Metro area is a bit presumptuous. Redirecting to a disambiguation page is unnecessary, given that the Metro area includes (links to) both "confusable" Kansas Cities, and gets a prominent link to the disambiguation page.  As an aside, links that arrive here but intend to go to Kansas City, Missouri should be corrected to link there; last I checked policy is against internal links going through redirects at all, so I'm not sure it really bears on this discussion. Darker Dreams (talk) 08:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Make [[Kansas City]] an real article (i.e. not a disambiguation page)

message: Hi.  What is the primary usage of "Kansas City"?  Is there one use of the phrase "Kansas City" that overwhelms all others in usage, google counts, and page hits?  If there isn't, this needs to be disambiguated.  It's that simple.--Loodog (talk) 23:25, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a dab page is best for Kansas City due to the potential for confusion with the Kansas and Missouri cities. Almost always, twin cities with the same name call for such. CrazyC83 (talk) 04:50, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I definitely agree; this is clearly an example where a disambiguation page is warranted. The two main uses seem to be the distinct cities, not the metropolitan area that contains both of them. Yes, potential for confusion can be cleared up at a disambiguation pages - I personally find the current situation confusing, especially seeing as there isn't even a hatnote to either of the "Kansas Cities". Cheers, Rai•me 05:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: I have changed the redirect target to Kansas City (disambiguation). The Missouri city, not the metro area, is the target of almost all incoming links and gets the majority of hits, so it doesn't make sense to redirect "Kansas City" to the metro area article. Still, there is a possibility for confusion between the two cities, so a dab page works best. Cheers, Rai•me 16:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simple rule: Is there a primary usage 

message: Articles on this page have consistently provided disambiguation coupled with replication of information on more specific pages. There has clearly been no consensus on a specific page being the proper redirect target. Given these things, it seems that leaving this page as a redirect to the disambiguation page and focusing work on improving pages specific to locals is the the best way to produce the most complete, coherent, and encyclopedic set of entries while providing the most relevance to all individuals looking for information on the subject. Darker Dreams (talk) 05:24, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see WP:CONCEPTDAB, which allows for a type of hybrid disambiguation/content article, exactly as this was before it was reverted.  Such a solution has worked well at Football and there's no reason it couldn't work here.  This article made a useful target for "Kansas City" links in articles like List of U.S. cities by number of professional sports championships, where some teams are in Kansas and others are in Missouri.  Powers T 15:11, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Another thing to consider is the issue of Primary usage. Examining "what links here" alone it it clear that upwards of 90% intend to point to Kansas City, Missouri. I would suggest redirecting there and then at the top of that page there should be a link to a disambiguation page. Grey Wanderer (talk) 21:23, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

text: Well I'm expressing support.  It's perfectly within our WP:CONCEPTDAB guidelines and has worked well in other tricky situations.  Powers T 02:04, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

text: Just because there is a protocol that allows for this sort of hybrid disambig page doesn't mean it's the best, or even a good, answer in this case. As it is, this page is redundant to two other pages (Kansas City (disambiguation) and Kansas City Metro Area). What does the current semi-disambig provide that neither of those other pages does. As it is currently written, the page ignores the other uses of Kansas City referenced on the disambiguation page.  This isn't a tricky situation, this is a situation perfectly covered by a normal disambiguation page. Better covered by the existent disambiguation page then this page. For future consensus counting, I should be counted as voting for disambiguation, which is a change from above. As for leaving the page as is; for how long? Discussion on this subject has never really been ended, just puttered out. Mostly the discussion has pointed away from this version of the page, though, and it was even converted to a redirect once only to be restored just to retry the summary style. Darker Dreams (talk) 07:09, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I already gave an example where none of the other pages are suitable links.  It frequently happens that someone referring to "Kansas City" means the twin cities, not one or the other, and not the entire metro area (which includes other cities not named "Kansas City", particularly Independence).  Powers T 12:47, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm sorry, but I don't buy that it "frequently happens" that someone means KCK+KCMO, but not the Metro area. To respond directly to your example of sports teams championships; either the links are imprecise (state where the team is from KCK/KCMO/etc) or it's "claimed" Metro wide. Someone from Independence or Olathe will claim the Chiefs just as readily as someone from KCK. Darker Dreams (talk) 20:07, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did you even look at the list article I linked?  The term "Kansas City" in that list is applied to the Chiefs, Royals, and Sporting Kansas City.  The first two are in Missouri; the third is in Kansas.  But they're all in "Kansas City" as an entity.  Powers T 00:25, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, I didn't, and nothing you just said makes me think that was a mistake; wiki pages shouldn't link to a disambiguation page of any type. What you're describing isn't an example- it's something that needs fixed. Darker Dreams (talk) 04:57, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

text:  Fixed now, incidentally bringing it into line with other entries like San Francisco and Phoenix.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darker Dreams (talk • contribs) 05:06, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: "Wiki pages shouldn't link to a disambiguation page of any type" -- but that's not true for WP:CONCEPTDABs, which is exactly what this article should be.  Arguing that it should be a disambiguation page (or redirect) because nothing should link to it because it's a dab page is circular reasoning.  Powers T 11:10, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  "This page is redundant to the others that otherwise exist" is not a circular argument though. There is a regular disambiguation page which is not only perfectly servicable but better for non-location purposes, and the KC Metro page provides the same pure location based disambiguation as this page does. It's redundant. I don't see a difference between using a redundant page because it provides disambiguation and linking to a disambiguation page. Darker Dreams (talk) 13:35, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not redundant; the metro area is much wider than just the twin cities.  Powers T 15:18, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It took me a minute to realize what you meant by "twin cities." The term might make sense in other places, but not for KC. In this context it's gibberish. As a rule you don't talk about Kansas City outside the context of KCK/KCMO/KC Metro. You might talk about one of those three you might talk about Independance, Olathe, JOCO, Lee Summit, Bonner Springs, Piper, Jackson County, or any of a dozen other subdivisions... but "Kansas City" doesn't apply to KCK+KCMO-surrounding suburbs anywhere I've ever seen or heard. Darker Dreams (talk) 15:48, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree that twin cities isn't really applicable to the Kansas City situation. "Kansas City" in the vernacular only refers to the metro area or the municipality of Kansas City, Missouri. If Kansas City, Kansas is referred to, people specify the "Kansas" part. But Kansas City, Kansas and all the other suburbs are included within the conception of the "Kansas City" Metro Area. Grouping KCK and KCMO together just because of the names is as arbitrary as grouping KCMO and Independence together. Grey Wanderer (talk) 20:33, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

text: Just a note; KCK isn't always specified as "Kansas," this usage actually varies even across the Metro. People from KCK/WYCO certainly don't use it automatically, and it's definitely more common in Missouri than Kansas. Granted, the Mo side of the Metro is bigger, but making the assertion that KCK needs to be specified while KCMO doesn't will get you anger from a lot of people. Darker Dreams (talk) 04:48, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I've been on the receiving side of that anger a lot on Wikipedia. I think the anger is telling though, it makes one aware of the cultural relationship between the two cities, all the way back to bleeding Kansas and people tend to get angry when you confront an emotional belief with the truth. I know many Kansans would much rather the central city be on the other side of the border, but that's history for you. I dislike the pattern of misinformation that boosters of both cities have spread far to often both here on wiki and in tourist brochures and websites. Grey Wanderer (talk) 05:46, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not saying anything about which side is central or anything else, just that saying one side is more likely/correctly referred to a particular way is probably more a result of personal bias than facts. Darker Dreams (talk) 08:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

text: We've wandered from "should this be a redirect" to "what should it redirect too," I suppose. I still vote that it should redirect to the disambig page as the most neutral of all possibilities. Darker Dreams (talk) 08:31, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

text: The "what links here" side seems to have been mostly cleaned out except for talk pages (and the rest should probably get the same, as policy is against linking to disambig pages of any type). Both KCK and KCMO have thousands of link-tos and, honestly, I got bored clicking through pages. Google provides an interesting case where searching "Kansas City" does primarily pull Mo based information- but it's pretty easy to tell because both KCK and KCMO use the separator unless the page is trying to indicate metro-wide appeal/application. I was amused to find a comment you left on the Kansas City, Kansas talk page back in 2008 supporting redirecting this to the Metro area over KCMO. Darker Dreams (talk) 04:57, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha, I know. I've never felt particularly strongly one way or the other and I'm generally fine with whatever the wiki community decides. However, my opinion has developed towards the KCMO redirect just based on my work on Kansas City related pages and my online fact-finding. Grey Wanderer (talk) 05:03, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's funny how opinions drift, above you'll see me suggesting KC Metro and now I'm saying disambiguation. Darker Dreams (talk) 13:35, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
*Support As an English language, non-American-based user of Wikipedia, I find the current DAB page the most useful place to land when searching for "Kansas City" as it explains what that term actually means. I do not find the proposed set up nearly so helpful.  --MrStoofer (talk) 12:06, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I'd go far as suggest that we move Kansas City metropolitan area to the base name Kansas City.--Cúchullain t/c 19:11, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey (2)