Talk:Vasily Zaitsev (sniper)

message: Where did this text come from? Is it copyright? Respectfully -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 22:10 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
:Well, I compiled it from a few sources, Including the books "Enemy at the Gates", and "Barbarossa". Plus I did research on the web and found Interviews with former Russian officials, as well as some other sites that had small references. But since I submitted the original article, it has been mercilessly butchered. Now it reads like Kool-Aid with no sugar. :) - Dan T. d_h_thomp@hotmail.com
The story of the high ranking German sniper who is dispatched to dispose of the pesky Russian peasant is as good a tale as could be told. <--- The Wikipedia does accept tolerated unaccredited opinions nor "fancy prose". In short, no sugar. Pizza Puzzle
I added a picture.  Figured if this guy was a hero, then people ought to see what he looks like. --Kross 23:40, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)
There's one interesting bit of information I've come across. Vasiliy Grossman, a war journalist who followed the Red Army wrote the following: "Murashev and medical orderly Zaitsev had been sentenced to be executed. Murashev for shooting himself through the hand, the other, because he had killed a famous pilot, who was coming down by parachute from a shot-up aircraft. Execution was commuted for both of them. And now they are both the best snipers in Stalingrad."
Since there weren't any other famous snipers who shared the same name, I believe that it is the same man.
Is it possible that Grossman was the only person who knew the truth about Zaitsev before the Soviet propaganda turned him into a hero through and through?    --149.175.101.103 (talk) 03:58, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Zaitsev/Zaytsev is a common name in Russia. Translates to *rabbit* as in Bugs Bunny. I am not sure where you came up with the idea that he was sentenced to death for shooting a soldier trying to parachute into the middle of the Battle of Stalingrad. Sounds like you are making this up or reading bad science fiction. Think about it. It’s the middle of winter, coldest in memory. -20 to -50 degrees, so some joker decided to parachute into Stalingrad. Zaytsev shoots him and gets sentenced to death? Common. I better not see any edits with that tall tale unless you got references from sites other than jokes.com Meishern (talk) 13:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: He would not trying to parachute into the city. He would be a pilot who bailed out when his plane was shot down. These sorts of things did happen. Grossman was the source of many early propaganda stories about the Snipers. It is no more true or false than any other wartime story about Zaitsev. The criminal made good is as much a staple of Soviet-era propaganda as the ethnic minority military hero. 70.234.229.91 (talk) 03:41, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Offensive (in my view) info without sources:
"in Batyuk's division who in the October Revolution celebrations raised his tally to 149 German kills"
Firstly, year is not pointed. Well,suppose that the year is 1942. Then it is claimed that by 1942 November 7 he killed 149 Germans. This needs to be sourced, in source should be written:
*namely Batyuk's division 
*namely "Germans" (as in the war participated many soldiers from other Axis's countries).
*namely 149
*namely by November 7 1942
*namely "raised his tally", which in particular looks pretty offensive for me as Zaitsev fought for his Motherland against the invaders, not played or did this just for fun.
After this is figured out, you can add it again, as that source's POV in contrast to the POV of my source  which I use now to translate the following quote from it into English and replace that unsourced sentence:
"К тому времени из простой «трехлинейки» Зайцев убил 32 гитлеровца. В период с 10 ноября по 17 декабря 1942 года в боях за Сталинград уничтожил 225 солдат и офицеров противника в том числе 11 снайперов. " Cmapm 23:41, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, so he used to be a navy man after all. I was looking at the photo, and noticed that his belt buckle had an anchor on it - it's the buckle used with navy uniforms. --Bicycle repairman 19:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources?

message: I suggest moving this to his name without the Grigoryevich, since WP typically doesn't include middle names in titles. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 04:56, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Move

message: Currently Soviet sniper says that Zaitsev "killed 242 Germans" in the Battle of Stalingrad, this page says he "killed 225 soldiers and officers of the Wehrmacht and other Axis armies", and Battle of Stalingrad says he "was credited with 149 kills during the battle". I don't have a reliable source for what the number should be, but somebody needs to find it and make these pages consistent with one another.
Moskvax 02:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The vast majority of web-sources seem to endorse 242 kills, so I've changed it to that for the time being until someone can find a more reliable source. --Mad Max 18:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are no credible sources on this topic. The typical numbers require that he was killing six to seven Germans per day. But even that doesn't account for the week he spent dedicated to his snipers duel. The numbers are typical Soviet era hype. Beevor claims he killed 149 up to November 7th (from a Soviet Archive). Another Soviet source has him killing an additional 225 between 10 November and 17th December. Zaitsev himself claims 242 *in total* at Stalingrad in his book. Yet other sources give 467 from Ocrober 1942 to January 1943. 70.234.229.91 (talk) 03:26, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  how many kills in Stalingrad? 

message: This chap's telescopic sight gets suddenly mentioned with no reference to who he is or any introduction at all. Needs fixing.
I would like to stress the need for this fixing. Zaitsev/Thorvald "duel" should be better explained.200.174.47.180 02:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thorvald 

message: needs to be more specific. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.34.84.57 (talk) 20:55, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: date of death??

message: The quote 'There is no land for us behind the Volga' isn't really Zaytsev's invention. It was the credo of many soldiers of the initially trapped Russian 62nd Army, says Antony Beevor in Stalingrad. Why then the remark in the Commemoration section that Zaytsev was buried near a monument that had 'his' quote written on it? I feel it should state something like 'the famous Stalingrad defenders quote'.
"Zaitsev as well as Chuikov both confirm it is Vassili's quote" vintovka762  —Preceding undated comment added 19:54, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  No land behind the Volga - says whom? 

message: You can spell it Zaitsev, Zaytsef, Zaitzef. But you must pick one of them. If you are an English speaker from Australia you may spell it differently from a New Yorker based on pronunciation. Please don't change the name in the entire article while the URL retains the original spelling. Meishern (talk) 18:57, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: There have been multiple revisions about this sentence. Please stop doing this unless you got proper references:
Version 1: Zaytsev himself did make mention of the duel in his own biography Notes of a Sniper, in which he commented that he had been up against a very skilled sniper named Thorvald. 
version 2: Zaytsev himself did make mention of the duel in his own biography Notes of a Sniper, in which he commented that he had been up against a very skilled German sniper named Herr Koning from Berlin.
Please put proper references in regarding this HERE. Please stop reversing and multi-editing the article. 
Lets get some consensus here.
Meishern (talk) 22:45, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I just read the autobiography myself, and I found no mention of the name of the enemy sniper. Vasili discusses the duel, but in my traslation he never mentions the name of the sniper he dueled, nor does he mention him as a super sniper from Berlin. I am now under the belief that neither Thorvald nor König was the identity of the sniper Zaitsev dueled, and that both names have been added retrospectively. I won't delete the name myself (due to not being very familiar with Wikipedia's policy on sourcing and deletion), but I will go ahead and throw my "vote" in that the name should be deleted.204.119.140.66 (talk) 15:49, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:   Thorvald vs Koning 

message: Two of the current sources describe the 800m kill for which he was rewarded a rifle and a medal. Problem is that the stories don't match. The http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/military/vasily-zaitsev/ is as in the main text whereas the http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=481 -link describe event quite differently (the officer points out a fascist running not an officer in a window). Does anyone know how to asses these sources so that a more reliable version can be in the text? 
andreas_td 07:17, 16 Mars 2011 (UTC)
According to Jochen Hellbeck's recent analysis of interviews with stalingrad veterans, Zaytsev described this incident and talked about a distance of 80 meters. Soviet propaganda later changed that to 800 meters. Hellbeck analysed the original material and in the light of this research, the 800m become higly unlikely.
*Hellbeck, Jochen (2012). Die Stalingrad-Protokolle.  S.Fischer .  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.27.32.75 (talk) 22:48, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:   contradicting sources 

message: In the photo of Zaytsev holding his rifle, the Mosin-Nagant has what looks to be a high-powered scope. His gun in the display case shows the more traditional PU scope.
What is the cause of the discrepancy here?
Trevorzink (talk) 19:11, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The PU was initially designed for the SVT-40 rifle. A version compatible with the Mosin-Nagant appeared only in the late 1942. At the time most Soviet snipers in Stalingrad, incuding Zaytsev, were using the pre-war made PE scopes, one of which is featured on the photo (taken in October, 1942). Zaytsev has probably changed the scope later. Altough there is a suggestion that this replacement was due to the PE scopes being based on early German prototypes, while the PU was a geniune Soviet design. Hope this helps.--Er&Red (talk) 17:00, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo discrepancy 

message: When this duel is first mentioned in the article, it says the other sniper was an ordinary soldier. When it's mentioned later, the sniper is now the leader of a German sniper school.
I don't care either way, but it should be cited and consistently reported. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 23:37, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  3 Day Duel 

message: The game has a character named Vassili who is a russian sniper, his name might be a reference to Vasily Zaytsev.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.84.4.83 (talk) 18:39, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference in "Dirty Bomb" 

message: Link -> https://cypressl.livejournal.com/330.html
1. Medal "For Courage". Award list.
"On the Stalingrad front, Comrade Zaitsev showed himself to be a loyal, brave, loving his task commander. He carried out all the orders of commanders and superiors perfectly. He is one of the organizers of the training of snipers in the battalion. Day and night he sits in ambush and hunts for fascists. During the period from 22.9 to 19.10.1942 in the battles for the city of Stalingrad, Comrade Zaitsev killed 40 fascists with a sniper rifle. He showed a fierce hatred for the enemies of our motherland. Devoted to the cause of the Lenin-Stalin Party. Commander of the unit *signature* Major"
2. Order of the Red Banner. Award list.
"In the battles for the city Stalingrad the chief petty officer of the 1st class comrade Zaitsev is showing patterns of courage, bravery and devotion to our Motherland. A few days ago, sniper Zaitsev challenged sniper Khait Khuzhmatov to a competition, having already 52 exterminated Hitlerites on his account. Fulfilling the commitment he made to himself, for the period from 25.10 to 31.10 in the streets of Stalingrad Comrade Zaytsev killed 58 more Germans. At the present time, 110 fascists have been destroyed on his account. Starshina Zaitsev trained 11 snipers, passing on his experience in exterminating fascists. For his courage in destroying the German **, is presented for an award: Order of Lenin"
3. Hero of the Soviet Union. Award list.
"During the period from October 10 to December 17 , 1942 in the street battles for Stalingrad sniper Vasily Zaitsev destroyed 225 German soldiers and officers. Participating in defensive and offensive battles, he increased his combat score daily. Directly at the forefront Zaitsev continuously trained fighters and commanders in sniping. As a result of skillful organization and personal example , Vasily Zaitsev has trained 28 excellent snipers. His students snipers: Dvoyashkin P. destroyed 78 Germans, Morozov - 66, Shatkin - 58, Kulikov - 51, etc. All snipers of the 1047th rifle regiment destroyed 1106 Germans. The merit of sniper V. Zaitsev to the Motherland is great. Worthy of awarding the highest government award "Hero of the Soviet Union"."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by CypressL (talk • contribs) 10:51, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Several digitised Soviet documents relating to Vasiliy Zaitsev 

message: This is very problematic:
"a wolf that he killed with a single bullet from his first personal gun (given to him by his grandfather), a single-shot 20 gauge shotgun."
First off, a shotgun doesn't fire a bullet, a rifle does.  A shotgun fires shot or a slug.   Second, every source I have found say that his first gun was a rifle, not a shotgun.  Some sources are more specific and say a Berdan rifle, which makes a lot more sense.  However nearly every source has some sort of error, such as "single barrel Berdan rifle" which should be "single shot Berdan rifle" because the first Berdans were single shot.  And it would be downright silly to call a bolt action rifle a "single barrel rifle".  Can someone please come up with a reliable source that at least uses correct terminology to fix this?  DrHenley (talk) 16:44, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  First gun? 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: whoever thought it made sense to change the spelling of Kiev to the "official" spelling needs to take a history lesson on Russia. Yobushki (talk) 17:19, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kiev/Kyiv 

message: An extraordinary film… one of the best! 174.246.136.162 (talk) 21:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film “Enemy at the Gates”