Talk:Manga/Archive 1

message: HELP HELP HELP! The use of the word manga seems totally crazy in this article and others. I've seen it used as:
#A substance noun -- Manga is important to Japanese society.
#An adjective or noun modifier -- manga magazine, manga book, manga artist.
#A discrete noun in singular -- His most famous manga is...
#A discrete noun in plural -- She is the author of many manga.
Does manga mean the medium at large (like the word music), which the first two usages suggest? Or the individual product (like poem), as the second two do? Or both (like film or sculpture or painting)?
And if it does apply to the individual product -- I'm reading a manga, She's written many manga -- is it really anglicized to have the plural and singular of the noun be the same? 
Lastly, is it enough of an anglicized term that it doesn't need italics, like pièce de résistance?
Thanks, -- ESP 14:00 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)
:Can't say for sure what the exact definition is and how it can be used, but I've only thought of it as a noun, so the modifiers come into question, particularly "manga book" which I would rephrase (probably) as the Japanese term tankouban (though this would require explanation as the term for the style in which Japanese books are published in general.  As for the other three, manga is regularly used in those ways (AFAIK).  The word manga is derived from Japanese as well, so there is no plural form (both plural and singular are manga, likewise with anime).
:As for how much of an anglicized term it is, I would hesitate on calling it a common word. People in manga fandom often use it, but outside of the subsection of anime fandom that collect the comic books, very few people know of it, so I don't believe it's that common. -- Pipian 16:31 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)
::For the record: tankoubon (単行本). --Aponar Kestrel 21:00, 2004 Aug 8 (UTC)
:: Consider the word "sheep". Sheep farm. My sheep. I own many sheep. Nonetheless, I mostly agree with Pipian - manga isn't really something that has really captured the attention of the community at large. Not even anime is quite there yet. After all, English already has equivalent terms which don't have any real problems - comics and cartoons. The usage of manga/anime is really something that fans/companies try to utilise to distinguish works of a distinctly non-western style that generally come from Japan. Lenny-au
:::It is often used like the noun "beer". Like other nouns like "water" and "gold", it is an amount which cannot be divided into smaller parts and cannot be counted. However, you can treat it like a countable noun anyway, and add a different meaning. "Two beer" mean something like "Two glasses of beer", and "a tasty beer" means something like "a tasty beer sort". Similarily, "manga" generally means the medium at large (Manga is important to Japanese society.), but you may also use it to refer to an induvidual product (I'm reading a manga as in I'm reading a manga book).
::::I'm sorry, no. *Two beer is wrong in English, and doesn't occur; Two beers usually means Two glasses/bottles of beer but may mean Two types of beer. Likewise, A tasty beer may refer either to the type or an individual instantiation thereof -- distinguishing between these probably isn't usually necessary. Likewise, ??I'm reading a manga book sounds redundant to the point of incorrectness: I'd just say I'm reading a manga -- whether I mean I'm reading a [specific] manga I borrowed from my friend or I'm reading a manga [series] by Tanaka Fuyumi. As typically used in English, manga is both mass noun and countable noun, singular and plural. --Aponar Kestrel 21:00, 2004 Aug 8 (UTC)
::::: And it is the same in pluralis, because it follows japanese grammar which generally has no plurals of nouns. (Using sentences like "some x", "a-couple-of x", "different x" etc to denote plurals)
:::::: Yes, this is correct.  "Manga" and "Anime" are both words that are used in English the same way they are used in Japanese.  That is to say that all of their forms are the same word and plurality is inferred by context like in the examples above.  Personally, I think this is great because it cuts down on having to have a bunch of special pluralized-forms of words and so forth, but that's just my opinion.   --Xaliqen 09:52, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Manga definition

message: I have added a line about the custom of grading manga magazines by the school year corresponding to the kanji rading level.  I believe that was the case some  20 years ago, but I don't know whether the custom is still current. Can anyone confirm or deny? Thanks... Jorge Stolfi 01:03, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Manga magazine grading

message: I've made a suggestion on Talk:Anime to change kana spellings for long vowels (shoujo, doujinshi, bishounen, etc) to match the Wikipedia:Manual of Style for Japan-related articles, which recommends short vowels in titles and macrons in content (shōjo, dōjinshi, bishōnen, etc).  Please contribute your opinions there. Jpatokal 06:43, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Kana spellings

message: I can see potential confusion with Manga Entertainment, but do we really need to link to La Manga at the top (see guidelines)? Is anyone really going to link to Manga instead of La Manga? A quick Google search for manga Spain has "La" there every time. I don't know enough about Spain to know if people commonly leave the article off, so I haven't removed it, but it seems like a stretch to me. DopefishJustin (・∀・) 17:30, May 24, 2004 (UTC)
:In general the article is not firmly attached to the noun, and many nouns that can take the article are entered without it.  Someone who does not know what "La Manga" means will probably not know that the "La" is part of the name, and may look up Manga instead.  So I think that the link (which was not my idea BTW) is more helpful than harmful. On the other hand, the article does not even exist yet...Jorge Stolfi 22:47, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Manga disambiguation

message: I wonder if this sentence (in the last paragraph of International Influence) borders on peering into the crystal ball and is out of Wikipedia's realm:
:As manga's popularity grows and the manga market continues to expand, it may still be difficult for these cartoonists to break out of fan circles, because of their lack of exposure to a broader view of comics beyond mainstream manga.
I didn't want to take it out without consulting the folks who've invested lots of time into this article.
cluth 01:19, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
Your right this needs to be made NPOV or removed. I did it as a compromise rewrite of anotehr POV statment that was the other way and it didn't work out quite right.
--Neilworms 05:11, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Predicting the future...