Talk:Stalag Luft III

message: Who were the Lambrecs? I haven't seen them mentioned anywhere else in connection with The Great Escape? The only web pages they seem to appear on are copies of Wikipedia. Removing these from the equation would then allow the total to be said to be 76, which is I believe the usual number, instead of the current 78 stated here. 91.111.62.178 (talk) 21:02, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reverted the changes made by anon user 68.42.26.175, which were to increase the number of escapees by two and claim that two Dutch resistance members escaped back to the Netherlands . It is uncited, I cannot find any evidence for it (or even the existence of these men) and these are the only edits that this user has made, and as you point out it conflicts with other accounts of the escape. Jll (talk) 13:26, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lambrec?

message: It would be both interesting and desirable to elaborate on where the diggers got their resources. The sheer amount of tools needed and sand moved require more explanation, because it all seems highly unlikely. Even when it's all true, as I gather from the number of references... Divad 20:06, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you saying that you think it's all a pack of lies? Rsduhamel (talk) 16:28, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resources 

message: The article's opening paragraph speaks of two escapes, one in 1943 and one in '44 but the body of the article appears to imply there was only one escape, the preparations for which took place across these two years.--Lairor 04:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many escapes? 

message: To whoever added all the "citations needed" tags: I think all the things you flagged up are in Brickhill's book, perhaps some in Williams. I'm not sure how to reference them... maybe do it as in a book, with (Brickhill 1951), then (ibid)...? Trious 12:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations Needed 

message: I fixed the note on Stalag II-D, as it was originally written as "11" and not linked.  I'm unfamiliar with the details of the escape listed here; 1500 prisoners seems so enormous that I wonder if it was a mass escape or a total number of escapes during the Canadians' imprisonment there?  The Stalag II-D article didn't note a mass-escape.
On a related note; should the non-Stalag Luft III section perhaps be moved into a "Mass POW escapes of WWII" article?  It certainly seems noteworthy, but a bit tangential to the topic of Stalag Luft III, which should presumably just have details of the escape from that installation and perhaps a link to these other similar escapes.  Just my .02.  142.167.169.78 18:50, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stalag II-D note 

message: on this page it says goering persuaded hitler not to execute all the escapees but on jens mullers page it says himmler, who was it? or both? Webbmyster 21:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goering or Himmler 

message: Apparently selecting the men to be shot was a 'traumatic experience for him'. I don't have access to the source cited, can anyone clarify what it does say please? Brickhill's "The Great Escape" (page 211) states while selecting the men to be shot he was 'grimly excited and behaved "uncountrollably"', which is something rather different entirely. One Night In Hackney303 20:07, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Nebe

message: Did the first successful escape happen in October 1942 or October 1943?  Both dates are given.Cbalducc (talk) 17:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  1942 or 1943? 

message: This section appears to have been (poorly) merged in from another article. It contains quite a large discussion of mass escapes in general, as well as questioning the P.O.W's strategy etc etc. Either this needs to be removed, or the Great Escape section needs to be re-split from this page. Metao (talk) 14:01, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, these sections were not cited, and given their inappropriateness for this article, I have removed them (despite admiring the very meticulous wikilinkification). Metao (talk) 14:04, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps the "escape" section should be split off to a separate article. There are a large number of good sources available, some of which I have, including Brickhill's book. Stetsonharry (talk) 13:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, The great escape section should be split off. It's too large to be just a section in this wiki and it is by far the most notable aspect of Stalag Luft III because of the movie. May I suggest calling the new wiki The great escape from Stalag Luft III? --Bob K31416 (talk) 14:15, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to agree, and express surprise that it hasn't happened already. It's well over half the content of the page as is, so I'd say a relatively brief mention should stay here, and all the details split off onto another page. Jedikaiti (talk) 16:15, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Great Escape 

message: I placed a "fact" tag after the note that von Lindeiner died in a Polish coal mine explosion. I believe that Brickhill said he ended up in London after the war. Rsduhamel (talk) 06:50, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  von Lindeiner's fate 

message: Please see Lt. Delbert Creed Brimhall referenced at the WWII memorial, Washington, DC.  Shot down over Munich 16 November 1944 in a B24J, the "Blue L," 783rd of the 465th, 15th AAF, Capt. Stringham, AC, KIA. He was interned approximately 6 months post "Great Escape" when American Pilots were allowed the privilege.  Information of post "Escape" POW's is requested. Jim Brimhall, son.
(Was located at bottom of main page, transferred here as more fitting.) -- Marcsin | Talk 17:53, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The content that Marcsin "transferred here" was that of a contrib made by User:Jglennb at 09:14, 26 December 2008Jerzy•t 05:32, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request transfered from main page 

message: (This is a continuation of the discussion from  The Great Escape section above.) 
The great escape section should be split off. It's too large to be just a section in this wiki and it is by far the most notable aspect of Stalag Luft III because of the movie. May I suggest calling the new wiki The great escape from Stalag Luft III ?  --Bob K31416 (talk) 14:36, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Gruntler (talk) 03:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Also agreed, but I assume you mean a new article and not a whole new wiki????? Stetsonharry (talk) 18:34, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:    Presumably any of several models of a GE wiki could be created at Wikia, and could use copied WP content under WMF licenses. IMO it's unrealistic to hope that WMF would support a separate wiki with its resources.   Splitting the article into two articles -- one covering just the escape (and repeating parts of the camp's article sufficient to help users whose interest is highly focused, in saving the effort of picking out their "choice pieces" of the accompanying camp article) -- is also plausible (& mutually consistent with having a GE wiki on Wikia, tho one may draw effort away from another).--Jerzy•t 09:09, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed split off of ''The Great Escape'' section into its own wiki 

message: The article states, in an uncited sentence, that 3,000 calories per day are needed for healthy men.  This is a lot more than the US government's assumptions, and we know how obese Americans can be...  At the very least, a cite (and explanation) would be needed.--Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 17:45, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If "we" know that Americans are obese, then we can also know that the Yukon is North America's rectum and you are it's no.1 turd. Al Cook USA  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.32.39.126 (talk) 12:47, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caloric requirements 

message: The last para in thia section was a bit 'mucked up' and not making sense. I deleted 4 words and added a full stop. It now makes sense. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 16:06, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stalag_Luft_III#Tunnel_construction 

message: It does not include The Netherlands. But further on Bram van der Stok is mentioned as one of only three homerunners. 62.12.14.25 (talk) 09:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of nationalities 

message: The sand was bright yellow... Literally? Canary yellow? Seems doubtful. Perhaps what's meant is light and yellowish colored? Sca (talk) 19:01, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Soil

message: This material was moved to here from the article The Great Escape (film) so that parts of it can be considered for inclusion in the Stalag Luft III section   The "Great Escape".
:Col Telford Taylor was the U.S. prosecutor in the High Command case. The  indictment called for the General Staff of the Army and the High Command of the German Armed Forces to be considered criminal organizations; the witnesses were several of the surviving German Field Marshals and their staff officers.Guilt, responsibility and the Third Reich, Heffer 1970; 20 pages;  One of the crimes charged in the Nuremberg Trials was of the murder of the 50.
:Luftwaffe Col Bernd von Brauchitsch, who was on the staff of Reich Marshal Hermann Göring, was interrogated by Capt Horace Hahn about the murders.[http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/03-12-46.asp Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Vol. 9
seventy-ninth day: Tuesday, 12 March 1946: Morning Session], Avalon Project, Yale University, Retrieved 1 March 2010
--Bob K31416 (talk) 23:59, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nuremberg War Trials 

message: As British government policy was to deduct camp pay from the prisoners military pay, the communal pool avoided the practice in other camps whereby American officers contributed to British canteen purchases.
What does this sentence mean? I'm really not sure what is trying to be said here...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.185.171.55 (talk) 02:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarify

message: It would make more sense if the liberation paragraph was moved to after the part about the tunnels and escape attempts. Herogamer (talk) 14:21, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order 

message: Penguins do not live in Germany.  Someone may like to tidy this article up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.55.157 (talk) 22:44, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The term is explained three or four paragraphs up from what you must have read. 92.15.30.71 (talk) 20:49, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Penguins 

message: they showed a picture of supposedly normandy and it was dieppe...I have seen the pictures and it was dieppe that was attacked...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.54.139.58 (talk) 03:07, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  what was shown... 

message: The article says "Tom" was the 98th tunnel to be discovered (in Sept 1943); just how many escape attempts were there? And how many were successful? The article says a bit about the Wooden Horse, and a lot about the Great Escape, but nothing much of anything else. Does anybody know? Xyl 54 (talk) 02:00, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many escapes (again) 

message: As an complete aside, my father in law was a airmen while on his 25 mission on August 1944 was shot down over Berlin and sent to Stalag Luft III.  I thought he told me the British Compound, where he was despite being an American, was called Lager Belaria or Bevaria.  Since he is deceased and I no longer have his records (Most POW records were then and I believe still are classified anyway) received ours from NPRC and National Archives Military Branch in Suitland Maryland.  I can only rely on my memory.  His name was Walter Collins and his nickname The farmer as he deposed of sand accumulated by more tunnels being dug even then and feigned a garden structure in which to do it.  He also worked on the Monument for the prisoners who escaped and were murdered.  Was forced marched to Nueumberg and finally Mooseburg where he was liberated by Patton's army.  He was also interviewed by Arthur Durand (former AF Colonel) who wrote a book and did his thesis on Stalag Luft III. Can anyone shed some information on this?  Thank you.
Also have seen many AF Mission Reports.  Do not remember any crew member lower than a 2nd Lt., perhaps a 1st Lt. Mugginsx (talk) 15:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: While interesting, your story above -- as well as your memory of who was and wasn't in the Luft camps -- would be considered original research.  I have reverted your latest edit in the article based on WP:OR and the following link   Lhb1239 (talk) 16:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Understood.  Admittedly no hard evidence.  The story is however all true.  Will try to contact Dr. Durand and see if he remembers me or Walter.  If anything, he may give us permission to add more information to this article. Mugginsx (talk) 08:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lager Belaria or Bavaria 

message: Canadian Wally Floody, the "Tunnel King", designed and supervised the construction of all the tunnels. He was one of 150 Canadians, members of both the RCAF and the RAF, who were involved in X, 25% of the total manpower. <http://wwii.ca/content-91/canadians-and-the-great-escape/> <http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=afc753d5-bb92-4c7f-87c1-103a4e1b1611> <http://www.history.ca/content/ContentDetail.aspx?ContentId=39> <http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=013cff64-5c6a-4339-9a96-c516d558ff94> <http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=013cff64-5c6a-4339-9a96-c516d558ff94>
209.213.242.221 (talk) 17:36, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wally Floody and the Canadian contribution

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Allied_airmen_from_the_Great_Escape Also, there was at least one other successful escape from Stalag Luft 3 (The "Wooden Horse" escape in 1943), during which all 3 participants made home runs. So, one cannot, therefore, title the list of the 76 as all of the escapers from Stalag Luft 3. Mhstevens 21:23, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: An earlier escape?

message: The text states "Each 10-by-12-foot (3.0 m × 3.7 m) bunkroom" housed 15 men in 5 3-tier bunks. The metric/imperial conversion (which appea to have been given by some automatic conversion tool) does not seem right: 3m is approx. 12' and 3.7m is around 14'. And anyway, assuming these bunks were 2'6" by 6', I can't see how it would be logistically possible to fit 5 of them in a room 10' by 12'. Men would have had to climb through each others' bunks to reach their own. In which case, the Jerries may just have well constructed three 10' wide shelves for them to sleep on 5 to each, and called it day. Plutonium27 (talk) 10:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bunkroom size 

message: A documentary shown last year (2012) on Channel 4 had archaeologists digging up the end of "Harry". However all the programme proved was that where the official Polish memorials were, are in fact in the wrong place because they found no trace of the tunnels. Little progress could be made to find the tunnels due to the instability in the sandy soils.
Thus making the legends used for images in this article factually incorrect. The only thing the diggers found was a cache of tools and an actual digging cart which were found in an excavated area under the foundations of the camp's former concert hut.86.157.49.73 (talk) 10:38, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Info on a previously unknown fourth tunnel, 'George', constructed after the Great Escape, here:   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 21:36, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tunnel location? 

message: I just read this whole article and I think it is better than class B.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 06:53, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Class B?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: When you hover over the map of Germany underneath the model camp it says 'Stalag Luft 111 is in Germany'. Since Sagan is now in Poland this should say 'was in Germany'. I don't see a way to edit it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goingagin (talk • contribs) 12:15, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map in infobox beside introduction 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Day
it is claimed that Harry Day was a co-organiser of the Great Escape, but his name is missing in this article. Can this be confirmed, and if so should his name not be alongside Roger Bushell?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.167.135 (talk) 21:53, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Group Captain Harry "Wings" Day 

message: If three tunnels were built, how could 98 tunnels have been discovered? Can this be clarified in the article? 173.88.241.33 (talk) 05:13, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: 3 or 98?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: As of 6 December 2017, the main article includes the following:
Cordes was replaced soon afterwards by Oberst Franz Braune. Braune was appalled that so many escapees had been killed, and allowed the prisoners who remained there to build a memorial, to which he also contributed. (The memorial still stands at its original site.)
No source is given, but I assume it is From Commandant to Captive: The Memoirs of Stalag Luft III Commandant Col. Friedrich Wilhelm Von Lindeiner Genannt Von Wildau With Postwar Interviews, Letters, and Testimony (2015), by Marilyn Walton and Michael Eberhardt, since a search of GoogleBooks gives that name for Cordes' replacement.
The Oberst in question is not Franz, but Werner Braune. Luftwaffe Oberst Werner Braune, born on 9 December 1897 in Schweidnitz, was named acting commandant of Stalag Luft III ("mit Wahrnehmung der Geschäfte des Kommandanten des Kriegsgefangenlagers der Luftwaffe Nr. 3 beauftragt") on 27 April 1944. Oberst Braune was transferred from the Luftwaffe to the German Army on 2 February 1945 with effect from 16 October 1944. which makes me wonder if the camp itself was also transferred to the jurisdiction of the Army, or if Braune was simply transferred elsewhere (his personnel file does not say).  My source is Braune's personnel file, which was among the German Army records seized by the US Army in 1945 and is on microfilm in the US National Archives. I will change the name in the main article, but I expect someone will revert it at some point and cite the Walton/Eberhardt book as a source.  Hopefully, placing this information here on the talk page will prevent this.
I cannot speak to the rest of the quote, as Braune's attitude toward the escape and whether he allowed a memorial to be built are not the sort of matters adressed in his personnel file. Again, I assume the Walton/Eberhardt book is the source for this, but since I do not know for certain, I cannot place a citation on the main page.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.216.227.115 (talk) 22:36, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Franz [sic] Braune 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Re the number who escaped in the Great Escape, I recall from Brickal's book, that 80 prisoners got out of the tunnel, but 4 were captured outside the wire, so that it was 76 "at large". I think that because the German's were disturbed by the size of the escape, they did not want to promote a higher figure, so that it was recorded as 76.
Noel Ellis 10:07, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  the number of escapees 

message: "Food was an ongoing matter of concern for the POWs. The recommended dietary intake for a normal healthy inactive adult male is 2,150 kilocalories (9,000 kilojoules)."   This should read only 2150 calories , not kilocalories, which would = 2.150 million calories.  Likewise, remove the "kilo" from joules to read 9000 joules.
"According to the 2020-2025 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, the recommended calorie intake for adult men ranges from 2,200 to 3,200 calories per day.Dec 30, 2021"
<CommsO> CommsO (talk) 05:05, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  correct units of calories 

message: The prisoners were not marched all the way to Moosburg, Stalag 7A. They were marched to Spremburg where they were loaded onto cattle cars for the train trip to Moosburg. 76.149.62.74 (talk) 18:46, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Citation? MapReader (talk) 19:00, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moosburg