Talk:Indian martial arts/Archive 2

message: You still haven't given the name of that Taoist monk who was a dissenter of the Shaolinists.
The name of that Taoist monk is Zining Daoren (literally "Zining, the Taoist") and I don't think he had grievances against the Shaolin monks, just that he was following a historically common Chinese practice of attributing one's own work to a famous historical figure in order to give it authority.
Also, where are your sources (quotes from books, at least a web site)?
It's my fault that there's no quote. Kennethtennyson originally put one in, but I removed it because I didn't feel that a lengthy quotation on the Yi Jin Jing belonged on the Indian martial arts page. Here's what I removed:
Other books include Tang Hao's Investigation into Shaolin and Wudang and Matsuda Ryuchi's Historical Outline of Chinese Martial Arts. Stanley Henning has used these as sources for his English language articles. Henning is even more doubtful than Lin and Matsuda about the age of the Bodhidharma legend, which he dates to the 20th century. I quote from his article "Ignorance, Legend and Taijiquan."
On the subject of Daruma Bodhidarma, what makes you think that he was not Tamil? Isn't Kanchipuram in Tamil Nadu? Please tell me that Kanchipuram is not in Tamil Nadu and I will believe you. I could be wrong. Wasn't Kanchipuram the Capital of the Tamil Pallavas?
None of the primary sources about Bodhidharma's life—not the Record of the Buddhist Monasteries of Lo-Yang (547 CE) nor the Two Entrances (c. 600 CE) nor the Continued Biographies of Eminent Monks (645 CE) nor the Anthology of the Patriarchal Hall (952 CE) nor the Jingde Records of the Transmission of the Lamp (1004 CE)—says anything about Kanchipuram or the Pallava dynasty.
Please provide a reliable source which says that Bodhidharma was born in Kanchipuram into the Pallava dynasty.
And it's just "Bodhidharma," not "Daruma Bodhidharma". "Daruma" is short for "Bodhidharma" in Japanese ("Bodaidaruma") so when you say "Daruma Bodhidharma" it's like calling someone named "Johnathan" "John Johnathan".
Why do you discredit Tamil martial arts or culture in general.
Why do you try to take the credit for the martial arts of China and Southeast Asia?
Is it the fact that the Tamils believe in Lemuria?
According to the theory of plate tectonics, which—and I say this with the utmost confidence—is universally accepted among credible geologists, Lemuria is a physical impossibility.
Is it offensive to state that Bodhidarma was a Tamil?
No, but if you want to say so in a Wikipedia article, you need to cite a reliable source.
Is it because Tamils resemble that of African decent and are not of a somewhat purer race as you might imagine, lets say the "Persians" or "Central Asians".
No, it's because the oldest of the primary sources on Bodhidharma, Yang Xuanzhi's eyewitness account in the Record of the Buddhist Monasteries of Lo-yang, describes him as "a Persian Central Asian".
None of the primary sources says that Bodhidharma was Tamil. "South Indian," yes, but not specifically Tamil. What's to say that he wasn't Telugu? And, again, none of the primary sources says anything about Kanchipuram or the Pallavas. JFD 15:29, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reply to "Still no Proof"

message: There is no controversy, none at all about the fighting style of Dhalsim, about the official statements regrading the Tsumi Hozan Jujutsu, Goju Ryu Karate, Shaolin martial arts and Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
The official versions have stated what they want, no matter how frustrating it might sound to people who want it to be otherwise and are willing to try and attempt strange stunts for that purpose.
This topic is not controversial at all, the official citations (cry yourselves hoarse all you want about their credibilty too, and act as if you know more about their history then they do) stand and will be stated. Live with it. Freedom skies 06:54, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  are you insane?  dhalsim is a video game character!!!!!!... they (capcom) did not mold dhalsim after any indian martial arts at all.  I don't think that there is any indian martial arts out there that allows you to stretch your arms to impossible lengths, float in mid air and breathe fire along with teleportation as a superpower.  if you would read more about the stuff that kenneth tennsyon and JFD are talking about and quit inserting yhour own ideas then we wouldn't have this issue.Steelhead 14:52, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh, yes, since i happened to just venture into this discussion, i checked up on alex doss.  He is a president of one branch of this college organization.   In america, the only way you can be a president of a college organization is if you actually go to college.  thus, doss is probably only 18-21 years old and most likely he has yet to graduate from college.  Why in the world are you using a website from the ramblings of a teenager in college?  ARe you Alex Doss!!!???  Further, there are tons and tons of Shaolin websites out there headed by tons and tons of Shaolin monks... why in the world do you decide to cite only one Shaolin website?  and why in the world do you keep on citing this Graycie character?  Kenneth tennyson is right, why don't you just cite Jet Li's website while you are at it.  Steelhead 14:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: About the controversy