Talk:George Müller

message: What evidence is there for adding :Category:Christian missionaries in Palestine ?  I am unaware of any connection between George Müller and the countries in the Levant. DFH 17:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My mistake in reading the article - now corrected!Thanks.Brian0324 18:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palestine? 

message: I see links to Open Brethren and Plymouth Brethren, but no text about any association with these assemblies, and nothing about whether Müller considered himself a member of these or had any link to the Brethren. 69.30.97.248 23:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plymouth Brethren? 

message: when I read the link 'George Mullers strategy' down the page, I read that George Muller cared for 10,024 orphans. in the text of George Muller encyclopedia wikipedia there stands 100,000. this should be clarified.
***********
reply to above
During his actual lifetime, 9,720 orphans were admitted to the homes.  No 9,721 (Elizabeth Grace Bailey) was actually admitted on the day of Muller's death.  According to the Admissions Registers, the last Full Orphan (ie, a child who had lost both parents) recorded was No 11,088, admitted on 20 September 1909, however the method of recording admissions was changed at this time and further Full Orphans were admitted after this.  
It was decided om 1900 that because other orphanages were now operating elsewhere in the country lowering demand for admission, leading to one of the New Orphan Houses at Ashley Down standing empty; and because there was a demand for it, "partial orphans" would be admitted - ie, children who had lost only one parent and the surviving parent was unable to cope.  The first of these was admitted on 1 August 1901.  The last to be received into the homes at Ashley Down was numbered 5686.  There is an entry after this record which states that the last Full Orphan to be admitted was numbered 11,603, this a total of 17,289 children were admitted to Wilson Street and the New Orphan Houses on Ashley Down.  The buildings on Ashley Down were then sold to Bristol City Council and the children moved into smaller houses throughout the region.  The method of recording admissions was changed again and children continued to be accepted into the homes until the mid 80s.
Silver Shiney (talk) 11:26, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  George Muller - correction number of orphans he cared for 

message: This section should be renamed. Because it not only mentions Mueller's early work but also his death.
72.171.0.147 16:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early Work? 

message: How on earth can an artilce about George Muller, a man famous for raising thousands of pounds via prayer, who spent hours each day in prayer, only have the word twice in the article?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.232.99 (talk) 09:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prayer 

message: I've heard it said that Muller was a Calvinist. (John Piper comes to mind). This article says: "He records in his autobiography how he came to examine the doctrines of election, particular redemption and final persevering grace and how, having been previously opposed to these doctrines, he came with "great astonishment" to find that the Bible was to "speak decidedly" for them [3]" 
But here's the passage from his autobiography:
"It was at this time that God began to show me that his word alone is our standard of judgment in spiritual things; that it can be explained only by the Holy Spirit; and that in our day, as well as in former times, he is the teacher of his people. The office of the Holy Spirit I had not experimentally understood before that time. Indeed, of the office of each of the blessed persons, in what is commonly called the Trinity, I had no experimental apprehension. I had not before seen from the Scriptures that the Father chose us before the foundation of the world; that in him that wonderful plan of our redemption originated, and that he also appointed all the means by which it was to be brought about. Further, that the Son, to save us, had fulfilled the law, to satisfy its demands, and with it also the holiness of God; that he had borne the punishment due to our sins, and had thus satisfied the justice of God. And, further, that the Holy Spirit alone can teach us about our state by nature, show us the need of a Saviour, enable us to believe in Christ, explain to us the Scriptures, help us in preaching, etc. It was my beginning to understand this latter point in particular which had a great effect on me; for the Lord enabled me to put it to the test of experience, by laying aside commentaries, and almost every other book, and simply reading the word of God and studying it. The result of this was, that the first evening that I shut myself into my room, to give myself to prayer and meditation over the Scriptures, I learned more in a few hours than I had done during a period of several months previously. But the particular difference was, that I received real strength for my soul in doing so. I now began to try by the test of the Scriptures the things which I had learned and seen, and found that only those principles which stood the test were really of value." (Michigan Historical Reprint Series of the Gould and Lincoln 1861 version, page 54).
Please note that the Calvinist terms used in the article do not appear here in Muller's own writings. And please also note that his own emphasis is on his discovery that scripture is adequate as the sole rule, and that the Holy Spirit alone is adequate as our teacher. Please reconsider the wording of this article. It seems to bear bais that is unfortunate for information about such a great man.  Eliyel (talk) 21:56, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Replaced the Calvinist viewpoint with above extract from Michigan Historical Reprint Series of the Gould and Lincoln 1861 version, page 54. According to the quote on the wiki page for Benjamin Wills Newton, Muller highly valued Newton's thoughts, thinking that he was the most accurate writer on religious themes of the nineteenth century. This might be worth mentioning but would probably provoke hostile reaction from the John Nelson Darby school of thought which even permeates the Open Brethren, especially in regards to eschatology. --Another berean (talk) 11:29, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theology 

message: For page numbers could we use what Google has on Google Book on 6th Part? The text is searchable enabling us to quickly get page number up where needed. I am sure we can find the other parts on there as well. Using Google Books enables others to easily verify claims made. What do you think?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rantir (talk • contribs) 02:58, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am still newer at citing things on Wikipedia, but I am sure there is a clear way to reference Google Books. Here is the first part of Narrative: Fist Part. As far as copyrights are concerned, I believe anything published before 1923 is in the public domain(US Copyright Law). Once in the public domain I believe anyone is free to resell the work. --Rantir (talk) 04:42, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good catch on it being an edited work. I would still suggest that we use it as a reference for the following reasons. 1) It is on Google books, so anyone can access it and verify claims made in the article. 2) Because it is a digital resource it can be quickly searched making text citations easier. 3) Although it is not a complete collection of Muller's work it still is his writing making it a solid first-hand account. If other more complete works of Muller are found and cited that would be ideal, but we can work with what we have right now. Here is my guess regarding copyrights: The musical scores of Bach and Mozart are free for anyone to look at. When a piece is performed by a symphony and recorded that recording is copyrighted. In this case, the copyright applies to the recording of the work not the actual work itself. Perhaps something similar is with the publications. This is not my area of expertise, so you would have to ask someone else about it. --Rantir (talk) 20:00, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

text:  The references can be made so they distinguishes between the online and the printed versions. My personnel bias is towards referencing electronically available material whenever as it allows for faster verification and searching.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rantir (talk • contribs) 06:12, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have tagged three references to the Narratives as page needed.  Does anyone have print versions.  I found and verified the statements / quotes using the online version at Gutenberg but this has not page numbers. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 20:44, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

text: I will try to find these for you. Silver Shiney (talk) 06:17, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Page Numbers

message: I have tagged three unreliable sources in the article. #8  is a wiki, thus not WP:RS, #26  is some sort of religious site pushing a particular POV, no evidence of it being regarded as RS, likewise #27 . –– Jezhotwells (talk) 17:06, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ref #16 is a letter in The Times, signed simply, C.  A letter in a newspaper is not a reliable source. I have amended the article text to indicate that this is a letter, not an article.–– Jezhotwells (talk) 20:03, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Unreliable sources

message: The link to CTA's website has once again been removed, with the claim that it was a spam link.  I can see that the link, inserted by BuildArk, to CTA's online shop is a spam link, and I can understand why a cursory glance at their home page MIGHT also be considered a spam link.  I have tried to insert a link to their "about" page (www.cta.uk.com/about.asp), but Jezhotwells has does something to prevent this.
However, CTA is an internationally-renowned company that produces films, documentaries and programmes.  So is the BBC.  CTA happens to have an online shop.  So does the BBC.  CTA's products are available from other sources.  So are the BBC's.  In the interests of accuracy, fairness and consistency, if a link to CTA's website is to be considered spam, then so must links to www.bbc.co.uk.
As mere retailers of the DVD, I agree that it is inappropriate to have a link to CTA's shop.  As film- and documentary producers, it is reasonable to have a link to their website.
Silver Shiney (talk) 08:06, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am afraid that you don't seem to get it.  If CTA is notable and has a wikipedia article, then it may be appropriate to wikilink to it, but inserting a weblink to the organisation is not correct.  This is an article about Georeg Müller, not CTA. Your analogy with the BBC is incorrect.  People do not link to www.bbc.co.uk every time that they are mentioned.  BBC News is correctly used in reference cites and other parts of the BBC, e.g Radio 4, BB3, BBC Worldwide are wikilinked as they have wikipedia articles.  –– Jezhotwells (talk) 10:56, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for clarifying that. Silver Shiney (talk) 14:53, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video section 

message: I've moved tag 14 up a sentence or two to the claim I believe it is challenging.  I'm not sure if the statement (about receipts) is verified in Muller's writings, however I entered it because I've seen one of the receipt forms.  If I can find it again, and scan it in, would a jpeg image be considered sufficient as a citation? Silver Shiney (talk) 19:23, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Just found a reference to receipts on page 463 of the Autobiography (), where Muller says on 1 March 1875 "when I sent their receipts".  Not sure if this is adequate. Silver Shiney (talk) 20:16, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  requisite proof for citation 

message: Is this article correct in what it says about Brethren membership & Brethren pastors?
I have attended Brrethrren Churches over many years, both in the USA & in England.  I never knew a Brrethrren Church that had "membership" in the way that other denominations have membership.  In my experience, you basically just attend, & there comes to be an informal consensus that you belong.  So I think that the references to membership are probably in error.  As to pastors, all the  Brrethrren I ever knew had elders who could be called pastors.  But in England where I attended, there was no formal designation of who was an elder.  It was eldership by osmosis, informal recognition by the people who attended.  And there could well be differences of opinion about who the elders were!  (EnochBethany (talk) 16:15, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: BRRETHRREN MEMBERSHIP & PASTORS

message: This sentence "At the end of October, he renounced his regular salary, believing that the practice could lead to church members giving out of duty, not desire." is not clear and not according to 2 Cor. 9:7: "Each one as he has purposed in his heart, not out of sorrow or out of necessity, for God loves a cheerful giver." Please explain!--Jusmeistar (talk) 12:25, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  out of duty, not desire 

message: The quote should be marked as such because it seems to summarize the central theological understanding of Müller. If in doubt, feel free to revert it. --Inawe  08:41, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote marked as such 

message: "Müller never sought donations from specific individuals and relied on the Almighty for all of his needs" Chadrack (talk) 19:40, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: where was he born
2601:603:4F00:EB0:F879:B9CB:EF5C:F0EC (talk) 17:53, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Kroppenstedt. It's mentioned in the infobox on the right. – Schneid9 (talk) 22:18, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where was he born