Talk:Chuck Baldwin

message: ... he is also an ordained minister. His activities in that endeavor need to be included to present a complete biography of him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.86.235.50 (talk) 14:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: In addition to being a political activist

message: The Barack Obama Featured Article, part of this project's scope, now has an important discussion on its talk page (at Talk:Barack Obama#Attempt to build consensus on the details) that could affect other articles, including this one, on other presidential candidates. There is already talk on that page that the articles on other presidential candidates may need to be changed, so editors involved in this article may want to get involved with the discussion there.
Some editors here think that when a U.S. presidential candidate is embarassed by someone associated with that candidate, no information about it should be mentioned in the WP biography article, even if the campaign (and therefore the person who is the subject of the article) was affected. Others think WP should only mention that this person was controversial and leave a link in the article to the WP article on that controversial associate. Still others (including me), think we should briefly explain just why that person was controversial in the candidate's life, which can be done in a phrase or at most a sentence or two. Examples:
* Hillary Clinton and Norman Hsu
* Barack Obama and Bill Ayers (and Jeremiah Wright, and Tony Rezko)
* John McCain and John C. Hagee
* Rudy Giuliani and Bernard Kerik
Whatever we do, we should have equal treatment, so anyone interested in NPOV-, WP:BLP-compliant articles should look at and participate in the discussion. We've started the discussion by focusing on how much to say about former Weather Underground leader Bill Ayers in the Barack Obama article, but, again, this will likely affect many other articles.
If you click on the first link I give here, you'll find a comparison I did of negative information in the Clinton, McCain and Giuliani articles. I've also posted that information on the talk pages of those articles. In that discussion (and at the McCain, Clinton and Giuliani talk pages), I've also posted a comparison of what negative information is presented on each candidate, especially in relation to associates who give the candidates bad publicity. I think editors of this article would find the comparison useful. Noroton (talk) 17:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: On some other pages where I've posted this, people have been responding only beneath the post, which is fine, but won't help get a consensus where it counts. So please excuse me for raising my voice, just to make sure I get the point across: Please respond at Talk:Barack Obama#Attempt to build consensus on the details where your comments will actually affect the consensus!!! Sorry for the shoutin', won't do it again (here anyway). Noroton (talk) 18:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, Obama knows a lot of embarrassing people, or at least it would appear so from your list.  Well done making that point. Jim Lahey (talk) 12:24, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: How much info on embarassing associates should be in a presidential candidate's biography?

message: I just happened across this column by Chuck Baldwin. Lays it on a bit thick with the semitic references, don't you think?
:The moneychangers of Jesus' day were the equivalent of the international bankers of our day. With the consent and approbation of the Jewish leaders, these bankers set up shop in the Temple. [...] Of course, the exchange rates benefited only the bankers and Jewish leaders (and Caesar, who collected a tax on the exchange, of course). For everyone else, the system was nothing more than legalized extortion.
Yuck. --FOo (talk) 02:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Semitic references

message: Is Chuck Baldwin a white supremacist sympathizer? According to this article, , he is a member of the League of the South, which doesn't prove anything on its own, but when you combine that with his frequent contributions to VDARE, the fact that he accepted Jerome Corsi's endorsement, and his previous appearance on The Political Cesspool radio show, Chuck Baldwin starts looking rather "suspicious".
I'm not going to add anything to the article yet, but if anyone has a source that either proves or disproves that Baldwin is a racist, that'd be nice. Stonemason89 (talk) 14:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Point taken, keep a watch. 208.102.0.136 (talk) 03:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Racism?

message: I found a transcript of Baldwin interviewing David Horowitz  and I must say I'm quite stunned with Horowitz. Baldwin himself wasn't saying anything racist, but he appeared to agree with what Horowitz was saying.
I think that should be mentioned either in this article or in the page on his presidential campaign. I mean, if Baldwin can nod his head and agree with David Horowitz when he begins talking, I think voters need to know that. I know a few (non-racist, libertarian-leaning) people who like Baldwin just because Ron Paul recommended him, but they aren't aware that Baldwin is not a colorblind libertarian; he's a theocrat! People need to know these kinds of things before they cast their votes. I've already mentioned on the Bob Barr Presidential Campaign talk page that I was quite impressed with how Bob Barr refused an endorsement and a donation from white-supremacists at Stormfront. Baldwin, it seems, is cut from quite a different cloth, and I think voters in the US need to know this. I'm just unsure of how to incorporate that into his article. Any help would be appreciated. Stonemason89 (talk) 00:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Racist David Horowitz interview?

message: I came to this page to learn more about Chuck Baldwin.  The overwhelming vibe I got from the whole article was very negative.  It seems like most of this was written by just one person.  I just want to encourage others to add some input to add some diversity. 70.114.137.228 (talk) 03:24, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Baldwin himself isn't a fan of "diversity". Stonemason89 (talk) 18:58, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Next comment was written after I took the previous IP up on that suggestion: JJB 16:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks! Well, I thought the list of worst presidents was unnecessary, but if it was to be left in at all, it was better to include the whole balance of that article. Shall we cut both? :D JJB 16:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: This seems a bit one sided

message: User: Khurshid85 removed the "Conspiracy Theorist" classification, saying "Baldwin is not a conspiracy theorist".
Oh really? How about this article (which he wrote, and which is entitled "There Is a Conspiracy")?
I looked into Khurshid85's edit history and found that the only other articles he/she had edited were an article on a deceased Nazi (claiming that the article was biased against the guy), and the Race and Intelligence talk page, to which he/she added a comment to the effect of "the Journal of Black Studies is not a respectable publication in the field of psychology."
Regardless, the evidence is clear that Baldwin is a conspiracy theorist, so I re-added that category.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.99.104.234 (talk) 00:21, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Baldwin as a conspiracy theorist

message: In addition to my comment about the heroes/antiheroes article, I also intend to cut out all the "citations needed" clauses that I flagged, in about a week if nothing turns up. JJB 16:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed 

message: A disambig is needed, which NWO is he opposed to? Шизомби (talk) 02:39, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New World Order 

message: There used to be a reference to his support of racial profiling in here, which referenced one of Baldwin's own columns defending the practice. However, it got taken out, perhaps by a pro-Baldwin POV-pusher who doesn't want to dilute all of the pro-Baldwin stuff in the "Individual Liberties" section? The fact is, Baldwin is not a civil libertarian and this article needs to be balanced to reflect that.
Never mind the fact that the article implies that Baldwin's criticisms of Martin Luther King Jr. are true, when in fact they are lies (Martin Luther King did not screw around with 3 women on the night of his murder). That myth originated with a Stormfront-operated anti-King website, yet this page implies that it is true. And the stuff about him rejecting the tenets of Christianity is a pack of lies, too; more racist old wives' tales about King, the likes of which still all too common in Baldwin's beloved South.
:: Indeed, I have only ever seen the "King cheating" claim repeated on four other websites besides Baldwin, and they are the blatantly racist sites Amren, the Stormfront-operated site you mention, David Duke's official website, and that of The Political Cesspool. They could be copying him, but I find it more likely that he is copying (at least one of) them. Stonemason89 (talk) 18:58, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Besides, even if those rumors are true (which I still highly doubt, due to their questionable origins), and MLK did have an affair, then so what? King David had multiple affairs, and yet he is still viewed as a Biblical hero. Maybe Baldwin needs to quit thumping his Bible and start reading it again. Particularly the part about King David. And the part where Moses' sister Miriam was struck down with leprosy for being racist against Moses' Cushite (that is, Ethiopian, that is, Black) wife. Stonemason89 (talk) 19:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Please keep in mind that you are not to push your own anti-Baldwin point of view.  If Baldwin has said something you find offensive, feel free to add it to the article if you can cite a reliable source.  If not, it will be removed.  And the same goes for pro-Baldwin additions as well. --Andrew Kelly (talk) 05:32, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

text: I removed the section on Dr. King. For one thing this is not an article on King but on Baldwin. Balwin is not an expert on King and the article can not repeat every opinion he expresses. Steve Dufour (talk) 15:14, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  He supports racial profiling, and other pro-Baldwin POV omissions

message: Would Neo-Confederate be an accurate description of Baldwin's political views?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.29.155.158 (talk) 20:47, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Paleoconservative is the most accurate description.--E tac (talk) 21:51, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neo-Confederate 

message: I removed this along with Giulani cross dressing material. LOL, I don't know how I have this watch listed, but I though this was about one of the acting brothers until after I edited it :) Anyways, carry on :) --Tom (talk) 14:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that information was relevant, because it helps explain Baldwin's view on homosexuality. Indeed, Baldwin's conspiracy theories about gays controlling the GOP (as well as a whole lot of other stuff) almost sound like the same type of thing you'd hear from Fred Phelps. Stonemason89 (talk) 18:58, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Republicans are gay material

message: CBC is a classic example of a diploma mill, and this deserves to be mentioned in the article. It has no faculty other than the president, Cecil Johnson, and all work is done through the mail. The school is accredited by an organization called American Accrediting Association of Theological Institutions Inc. (AAATI), however this turns out to be an organization founded by none other than Cecil Johnson, apparently for the sole purpose of accrediting his own school! One would be hard-pressed to find a better example of a diploma mill.  smontag71 (talk) 13:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be fair to mention it. But so what? A person does not need a college degree to be a political activist, or even a Baptist minister. Steve Dufour (talk) 15:18, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true that one doesn't need a college degree in order to be a political activist or minister, but that's beside the point: the point of this article is to tell us who Chuck Baldwin is, not to establish that he is qualified to be an activist or minister. If his educational credentials are worth mentioning in this article, then their dubious nature is also worth mentioning. smontag71 (talk) 23:22, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem with that here. Steve Dufour (talk) 03:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

text: "C4PB" is an acronym for "Chuck Baldwin 4 President", and appears to be a username used by (what remains of) the Baldwin campaign. As such, this particular user falls under WP: COI. 173.24.223.159 (talk) 19:50, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good point. Perhaps C4PB is Baldwin himself. Smontag71 00:22, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian Bible College a diploma mill 

message: I think the list of his personal heroes is a little too much. I don't think I have ever seen something like this in a WP bio. Steve Dufour (talk) 15:53, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I took it off after seeing a couple of other opinions above supporting removal and no one saying keep. Steve Dufour (talk) 00:46, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Personal heroes

message: There really should be some mention of the fact that the SPLC has place Baldwin at the top of their "right wing extremists" list: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/the-patriots  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jabowery (talk • contribs) 18:56, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: SPLC list

message: This reads far too much like a brochure produced by supporters of a political candidate. And as almost an aside, what does it have a candidate infobox although the election was two years ago?
Seriously, it needs more balance. Dougweller (talk) 10:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole thing is horrible. His "degrees" redirect to diploma mills, but no mention of the diploma mills. This was clearly written as an advertisement.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by ASsasasas90 (talk • contribs) 23:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ASsassas90, are you being sarcastic or serious?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.116.177.130 (talk) 22:21, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV, Advertisement tags 

message: I've looked at this, and it appears that Roscelese's description is correct according to our article, so why is it being disputed? Dougweller (talk) 05:50, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect it's a terminology issue. I've no real problem with "fertilization" vs. "conception," nor with "human life" as long as "legal personhood" is also present. I don't get the removal of the jurisdictional issue though; it's a super-important component of a few of Paul's proposed bills, including this one, and I'm not sure why we'd leave it out. Roscelese (talk) 05:54, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the point of legislation, couching it with the phrase "prevent federal courts from hearing cases on abortion-related legislation." sounds, to me, an attempt to discredit the position.  (also, this is covered later on the the article, some would should eliminate the redundancy, whether it stays in the lead or the body I will leave to the descression of the editor) - Schrandit (talk) 11:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Twaddle. That's what the legislation does and it's a major part of Ron Paul's abortion-related political activity. It's obviously not discrediting unless you don't like the law, and clearly Baldwin and Paul and other supporters like the law. If you don't like the law, by all means don't support the law, but to insist that it should be suppressed because, in your personal opinion, it makes the law sound bad, is the height of ridiculousness. Roscelese (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What in all creation are you on about?  This is how any piece of legislation functions.  You have not seen it fit to couch any other piece of legislation in these terms.  I see no particular reason to start with this one. - Schrandit (talk) 08:52, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Most legislation doesn't limit jurisdiction in this way, I'm not clear what you mean "that is how any piece of legislation functions". Dougweller (talk) 09:38, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The idea of locking out federal courts is actually very important, since it goes along with the Libertarian rejection of a strong federal government, reflecting a commitment to states' rights instead. It was Roe v. Wade that (in)famously took abortion out of state jurisdiction, and this law seeks to undo that effect. Dylan Flaherty 22:27, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. Roscelese (talk) 22:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Sanctity of Life Act]] 

message: If you read what Baldwin says, eg , it is explicit that he is talking about 'global government'. At the moment, the link for New World Order is being kept at New world order (politics) which has a lead that says ". Despite various interpretations of this term, it is primarily associated with the ideological notion of global governance only in the sense of new collective efforts to identify, understand, or address worldwide problems that go beyond the capacity of individual nation-states to solve." It seems pretty obvious to me that this is not what Baldwin is talking about, he is talking about the conspiracy theory.  Dougweller (talk) 07:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Funny, Doug, you agree he's talking about global gov, and quote the politics article that it's about global gov, and yet deny the link to that article. The conspiracy article, meanwhile, says, "In conspiracy theory, the term New World Order or NWO refers to the emergence of a bureaucratic collectivist one-world government." I don't see the words "bureau" or "one-world" in your link, although I do see "collective" in a quote by GWB, the son of the man who defined the political NWO. Oh, but "collective" is in the political article too. How about we merge the two articles or do something else that might shed more light on this? Was there a previous discussion? How do you judge which NWO someone is talking about? Let's say I want to talk about the political NWO and to disambiguate I say that to confuse this NWO with the conspiratorial one is "insulting": are you going to insist I'm still talking about the conspiracy in the same way you just did for Baldwin, who said the same thing? I dunno. JJB 07:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I see  a basic difference between JJB's quote above, "primarily associated with the ideological notion of global governance" and his quote in context: "Despite various interpretations of this term, it is primarily associated with the ideological notion of global governance only in the sense of new collective efforts to identify, understand, or address worldwide problems that go beyond the capacity of individual nation-states to solve."  It is clear that Baldwin is talking about the idea that there is a conspiracy theory to establish a world government. I would not expect Baldwin supporters to accept this of course. Dougweller (talk) 05:26, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dougweller, by doing your own analysis, you are violating the WP:SYN.   Keep in mind that this is a biography of a living person, so we need to maintain the highest standards of neutrality. I strongly recommend that you self-revert that edit. BobbieCharlton (talk) 17:24, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the name used by reliable sources and is in accord with our naming policy. And I didn't violate WP:SYN, see what BD2412 has written. Dougweller (talk) 19:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New World Order redux 

message: An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:36, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC 

message: I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
::This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
::#There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
::#It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
::#In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 09:40, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing POV tag with no active discussion per [[Template:POV]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: please explain what this is and how I can avoid it  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.171.195.69 (talk) 02:10, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  501c3 

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