Talk:World of A Song of Ice and Fire

message: There are five location articles that still exist for ASOIAF on en.wiki: Westeros, Across the narrow sea, Cities in A Song of Ice and Fire, Strongholds of A Song of Ice and Fire. The_North (A Song of Ice and Fire) is prodded as having no meaningful content and I don't expect it to survive, so only  four will remain (Ghis and Free Cities (A Song of Ice and Fire) are already merged).
All four articles are nice examples of fancruft: unsourced, full of original research and with excessive detail. All have been transwikied to the Song of Ice and fire wiki long ago and have seen no improvement for a long time.
I therefore propose to merge all four articles into a single Locations in A Song of Ice and Fire article and remove most of the cruft while I am at it. I will do so in 7 days if no response is received in the mean time. Yoenit (talk) 12:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is great and sensible idea; please just be sure to implement redirects for links which are in wide use or are likely to be sought out/searched by readers.— TAnthonyTalk 00:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure how much trimming you intend to do, but I do worry somewhat that a combined article may be too long ... what about just leaving Westeros and Across the narrow sea with everything else somehow merged in? If you do plan to turn at least one of these articles into Locations in A Song of Ice and Fire, it is suggested that you use the Move tool to move an article to Locations in A Song of Ice and Fire to preserve the edit history rather than do a complete cut-and-paste (see WP:Cut-and-paste moves).— TAnthonyTalk 00:28, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I try to include redirects whenever possible, but I am still breaking wikilinks left and right. Plan on scanning all articles and fixing the links when I get the merging stuff over with (not only this, but also character articles). With regards to the length, I am not really sure. I personally use around 75 k as an upper limit for article length and all four articles combined are around 120 k now. There is a significant amount of duplicate and cruft material though (Biology and anthropology?), so we will see what happens. Yoenit (talk) 11:33, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. I actually found the articles quite a useful and interesting read. - Reanimated X (talk) 03:19, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the issue is that we don't like the articles or their content, but the size, trivial detail, and complete lack of sources make the "articles" violate a few WP policies. We are unlikely to find reliable sources asserting the notability of much of the intricate location/character info here, but at least if we make an effort to make it concise, the material can avoid deletion.— TAnthonyTalk 04:57, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I recall seeing one of the references on a Harry Potter article being a chapter of one of the books. Couldn't we do that instead? - Reanimated X (talk) 05:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Citing a page, chapter, or the novel itself is what we call using a primary source, which is great for direct quotes from the text or to back up plot details that might be questioned. But this doesn't establish the notability of specific details in a manner necessary to meet content guidelines. Unfortunately the notability of the novels themselves doesn't necessarily extend to every character, location, and plotline within them. In the strictest sense, usually all WP considers notable for fictional topics are the details discussed in reliable, verifiable secondary sources, like book reviews. And most reviews and articles I've seen discussing the series may mention Westeros, dragons, the Starks, and the Lannisters, but do not get into detail about various cities, the customs of Dorne, and stuff like that. But there is definitely value in much of what I'll call (for lack of a better term) the "extraneous" info collected here about the series, so if we can keep it in the form of concise lists of locations and people, it fits better into WP (lists have somewhat different guidelines).— TAnthonyTalk 05:31, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the clarification. - Reanimated X (talk) 05:58, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

text: I support the merge of the location articles. For the "Biology and anthropology" and "Faith" sections that could possibly be a separate article like Themes in A Song of Ice and Fire or Ideas in A Song of Ice and Fire. Spidey104contribs 13:56, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I decided to merge everything to World of A Song of Ice and Fire for now, which should be general enough to incorporate everything. I am not against the creation of a "themes" article, but I think more (OR-free) material would be needed if we want it to survive an AFD. Yoenit (talk) 14:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems like a great name for a merged article, thanks again for spearheading this. I'm also happy to see that it's not too long! It looks like I may have some more time to edit coming up, so I'll try to scour other ASOIAF articles for references that could be of use here.— TAnthonyTalk 16:26, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  proposing merge of all ASOIAF location articles 

message: What do we think about moving each of the "Specific locations" sections (King's Landing, Casterly Rock, etc) under the appropriate Region heading? I feel like when I'm reading about the North it makes sense to have Winterfell and the Wall there as well.— TAnthonyTalk 18:38, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like an excellent idea. Yoenit (talk) 18:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Reorg

message: Is the any information about the physical world (that is the planet) that these novels are set in? What kind of planetary system could result in such seemingly random seasonal changes with summers and winters lasting different periods. If such information exists it would be good to include it. I'm unsure whether the author has ever provided such information as the inhabitants may have no knowledge themselves.Puttanesca kol (talk) 10:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If I remember correctly the author has stated that the length of the seasons has nothing to do with magic and will be explained in a future novel. With regards to the physical world and planetary system, there is very little information and absolutely nothing that could explain the seasons. Yoenit (talk) 21:19, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Planet 

message: The Westeros in the intro of Game of Thrones resembles the geography of the British mainland a lot, with The Wall situated roughly at the same location where Hadrian's Wall was located in history and King's Landing roughly at the spot where London is located in real life. Was this intended by the makers or just a coincidence? SpeakFree (talk) 20:57, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The TV series map should be identical to the map from the novels. The shape of the continent between the Neck and Dorne does indeed resemble the coastline of England somewhat, but I see little resemble beyond that. If Kings landing is London then Hadrians wall would located where the Neck is, not the Wall. I don't recall the author giving any information about the inspiration for the map, though he has said the War of the Roses was an inspiration for the storyline. Yoenit (talk) 23:45, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Southern Westeros has the general shape of England but east and west are reversed.  The peninsulae  corresponding to Wales and Cornwall, for example, are on the east side, south of King's Landing.  "Dorne" is a mirror image of Cornwall.  2001:558:6011:1:10B0:5FF8:FC2A:415C (talk) 04:54, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

text: Did Martin get the name Westeros from Wester Ross? Or is it just a massive coincidence? 86.134.91.155 (talk) 12:19, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Westeros in Game of Thrones = Britain?

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message: I was planning on sourcing some information on Harrenhal to the books using the handy Concordance on the citadel. However, there there appears to be a difference between page numbers in the US and the UK versions of the books. (see this for more information), leading to possible ambiguity when sourcing a specific page. What would be the best way to resolve this? Should we restrict ourselves to sourcing only from the US version? Should we allow both and specify which version is being used in the reference? Should we drop references to specific pages and use entire chapters instead (like the ASOIAF wiki does)? Yoenit (talk) 14:15, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: HRMPF, westeros.org is down again ATM, so I can't check your links; I use their wiki to find chapter page numbers quickly. As for your questions, I guess readers+editors can locate challenged material from the chapter names alone, but having a page number at hand makes it so much easier. Obviously, we can't give a page number for all global editions, so I guess it's best to either use (1) what most English-based readers around the world have -- and that's the US versions -- , or (2) what the editors interested in editing this article have. I (from Germany) only have the US paperback editions of books 1–4, and the US hardcover edition of book 5, so that's what I'll be using for sourcing. This is also what the book Game of Thrones and Philosophy uses (which I'll use more for the Themes article than here). For a start, I've also thought about just adding the chapter names from my searchable PDF files for now since I don't always have my books with me for page numbers. When everything is said and done, though, the page numbers should be consistent, not US-UK-mixed. By the way, I've found  this morning to help keep the amount of citations at bay in the future. – sgeureka t•c 17:28, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

text: (westeros.org is online again) Wow, your Concordance link will make things so much easier so that I'll probably have the enthusiasm and nerve to source this World article pretty quickly (not much before the weekend though). Their wiki's chapter page seems more completed than their static website. I intend to work from the bottom up for now, since the far-away stuff interests me more to me than Westeros. – sgeureka t•c 17:49, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citing the books directly, page number differences between UK and US versions 

message: Is there a reason why this thing is full of British spelling?  It's set in a fantasy world and it was written by an American author.  Can anyone make the case for British English? 21:48, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  National variety of English 

message: As it stands you get the impression (from WP's articles and from the TV series) that it is Westeros - and Westeros only - that suffers from erratic seasons.  Does this concur with a full reading of the text and/or anything the author has said? 31.53.186.67 (talk) 12:41, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Erratic Seasons - Westeros only? 

message: So that each location description has nearly the same kind of information down the road, here's a list of what this list should mention for each location, if applicable (this is also as a personal reminder). – sgeureka t•c 07:37, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  What a section on a location should mention 

message: Now that the map collection is out, would it be allowed to post a scan of the Known Map world to accompany the article? Or would it consist of copyright infringement? --Appledoze (talk) 06:56, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uploading map from The Lands of Ice and Fire 

message: Jon Snow's wiki underline link doesn't direct to the correct page. Instead it goes to Jon Snow, some TV presenter. not sure how to fix this, figured i'd let you all know  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.92.78.121 (talk) 16:49, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed, thanks for notifying us! Yoenit (talk) 18:03, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article issues 

message: in this HBO featurete at 1:15 he clearly states the lands beyond the wall are the size of Canada. DJokerNr1 (talk) 03:11, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lands Beyond the Wall size confirmed 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article should be called "The Known World". Similiar to Lord of the Rings, "Middle-earth". - AffeL (talk) 14:23, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be too generic. --ExperiencedArticleFixer (talk) 19:28, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change Title? 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Having a hatnote on "Dragonstone" saying "for Dragonstone in Essos, see..." is not necessary. "Dragonstone" in Essos is an ad-hoc nickname given to an undistinguished location for one chapter; it is not noteworthy either in-universe or in the real world. Nobody looking for information on "Dragonstone" is going to be looking for that hill Daenerys camped out on one time. For the same reason, Winterfell doesn't have a hatnote saying "for the snow sculpture in the Eyrie, see...". AJD (talk) 16:52, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dragonstone hatnote 

message: Can we add metric systems so non Americans can understand the lengths and distances mentioned in the article? Like the height and length of the Wall. Enjoyer of World (talk) 22:51, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metric 

message: I presume that the seven kingdoms were inspired by the seven Anglo-Saxon kingdoms that later became England, and there might be a source for that here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/29/the-main-continent-in-game-of-thrones-is-modeled-on-the-british-isles/%3foutputType=amp But you have to be a subscriber to see it, and I'm not. Can somebody who is check please? And then add it to the article if it pans out. Richard75 (talk) 17:36, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seven kingdoms 

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