Talk:Environmentalism/Archive 1

message: :Ecologism, is the ideology of caring for nature, environment.  There are different streams in ecologism, some emphasing, caring more for nature than men (directly) because the initial thought is that nature will sort things out and help mankind itself if we devoted more energy to it than ourselves, others emphasizing the responsability of human beings (The Imperative of Responsibility). 
:People with this ideology are often called environmentalists, and an example of that is Green Peace.
:::Whoever wrote this doesn't even know the name of Greenpeace.  A better statement is certainly possible.
===Copy of the old text ===
I don't know about administration of  article "history", but just in case i copy the definition, perhaps something come up for the final result.   --Ayanoa 21:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WIkipedia never forgets! The old version of the page is still available. Incidently, the word "ecologism" is not listed on a couple of the more comprehensive online dictionaries the I checked. Alan Liefting 01:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: but I can forget, juste to help (copying), and if we don't use the definition, we clean. for ecologism and environmentalism, I can't help; I'm french speaker and we use more environnementalisme than ecologisme, and sometimes as simple synonym (so it is in french wikipedia,(except that :fr:ecologisme is the name of the article) some authors (but I 've no references) use ecologism for the radical wing.  --Ayanoa 12:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Text from [[Ecologism]]

message: I don't know about administration of  article "history", but just in case i copy the definition, perhaps something come up for the final result.   --Ayanoa 21:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WIkipedia never forgets! The old version of the page is still available. Incidently, the word "ecologism" is not listed on a couple of the more comprehensive online dictionaries the I checked. Alan Liefting 01:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: but I can forget, juste to help (copying), and if we don't use the definition, we clean. for ecologism and environmentalism, I can't help; I'm french speaker and we use more environnementalisme than ecologisme, and sometimes as simple synonym (so it is in french wikipedia,(except that :fr:ecologisme is the name of the article) some authors (but I 've no references) use ecologism for the radical wing.  --Ayanoa 12:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copy of the old text 

message: Ecology basically deals with the interaction of plants and animals.
Environmentalists more look at physical stuff and how they effect ecosystems.
example desertification
an environmental scientist will be mostly interested in the climate
wheras an ecologist in the plant life and animal life
an environmentalist may try and reclaim the desert by planting trees
wheras the ecologist will try and work out how to best support the existing ecosystems.
of course there is much overlap
but i hope u get it now--Rainbow Warrior 13:11, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: fundamental difference

message: Michael Crichtons speech to the Commonwealth Club, where he compares religion to environmentalism, seems to crop up quite often on this page.  I have removed from the article the word "Some" linked to his speech. One opinion is not the same as some. Alan Liefting 07:09, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michael Crichton and environmental religion 

message: It has been a very poor article for quite some time and as with what happened with the environmental movement page a systemic bias towards the US has crept in. Alan Liefting 21:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: US bias

message: Would it be appropriate to mention in this article those movements that are starting to emerge that can be understood as analogous to environmentalism? As an example, the term Cultural environmentalism might be appropriate.
--Cgranade 02:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Analogous movements 

message: On 10/12/06, PBS aired Is God Green?, a look at a growing subset of American Evangelical Christians who are embracing, in their own way, the environmental movement/lifestyle etc. After searching around Wikipedia, I found nothing. Does anyone know of any article on Wikipedia which address this? If not, I'd like to create an article and would like suggestions on article names, proper categorization, what to include etc. Any ideas?-- Feel free to respond at my talk pageHraefen Talk 17:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Evangelical environmentalism]]

message: Could someone add a link to environmental determinism at the top of this page? I would but I have not figured out how to do such.
In the field of geography Environmentalism is the common word for Environmental Determinism, and I was very confused in looking for the article on Environmentalism in the Geographic contex.  Thank you.
:Done.Sup dudes?User:Kitler005 19:44, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Environmental Determinism 

message: I think this is a great page on Environmentalism in the US, and before we start hacking at it to make it more WWV-compatable, perhaps we should copy its contents into a US specific page, and then start cutting and altering to make it more WWV.  The Gomm 23:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about incorporating facts from the Kyoto_Treaty to the article?  The United States and Australia are the only two countries that have not signed the protocol.  Bearly541 talk 01:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WWV vs US content 

message: Before I write a bit on biodiversity and breeding programs, can anyone remind me of the proper name for that white Arabian deer or related creature that went extinct in the wild before breeding of captive ones before being released back? Thank you. Wiki-newbie 19:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you be thinking of the Arabian Oryx? It was successfully bred in captivety and reintroduced back into Arabia in 1962. S.dedalus 05:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biodiversity - I need a reminder 

message: Has anyone thought of incorporating this to the article? Bearly541 talk 01:07, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The film is about an environmental issue not about environmentalism.  Alan Liefting 03:40, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[An Inconvenient Truth]]

message: Shouldn’t there be something about Greenpeace in this article? Under the heading Environmental Organizations maybe, and also a link to the Greenpeace page at the bottom. They defiantly have been one of the most influential environmental groups and my be the biggest. S.dedalus 05:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like all environmental organizations have been broken out to a separate article, List of environmental organizations. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 05:40, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn’t it be best to ether expand the “Environmental organizations” section in this article or else remove this section and simply have a link at the bottom? It seems sort of redundant when there already is an “Environmental organizations and conferences” section near the top of the page. Is this heading really necessary? S.dedalus 05:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The article certainly seems to be in an "under construction" state at the moment; if you see something that you think should be changed, take a shot!  I haven't paid much attention to the article myself...it got added to my watchlist as a side effect of clearing up vandalism. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 06:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha, thanks, I’ll get to work. :-) S.dedalus 06:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Sounds good!  BTW, I'm in Vancouver (the real one, not the other one down by Portland :-), so if you ask me to name an environmental organization, Greenpeace is the first one that I would think of.  I'm just not not sure how (or if) it fits into that article. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 06:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that’s a good point. I left the link to List of environmental organizations and simply merged the headings. I think a section on major historical environmental actions may be more appropriate here. I’ll see what I can put together. S.dedalus 23:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Greenpeace]]?

message: I see the Environmentalism in the U.S.A. section has been split off. I'm not so sure about this as this article now lacks any sort of info on the development of history of the topic. I think that while these are US authors, their impact has been quite global. Walden and Silent Spring have been important works across the world. --Salix alba (talk) 13:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The two authors mentioned are in the current revision of the article. The article is about the international aspects of environmentalism.  Information about specific countries are excluded to prevent systemic bias. Alan Liefting 03:55, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Environmentalism in the U.S.A. 

message: I think the present article blurs the distinction between the environmentalist movement - particularly partisan advocacy regarding global warming, the ozone layer, DDT use, etc. - and Conservationism. I even wonder if this is deliberate. 
::There once was a US based conservation movement.  Today that term means basically right wing environmentalists, while environmental movement means left wing ones.  Like everything in the US, there's a Republican and Democratic version doing the same things with different ideologiers.
Of course, there is some overlap. But not all anti-enviromentalists are "anti-nature", "anti-conservation" or "pro-pollution". --Uncle Ed 19:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Environmentalism and conservationism

message: .... and kindly contribute to these new articles when you get time, and request others too.
See Wildlife of India for reference.
Thanks
Atulsnischal 18:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Please create more "[[Wildlife of .....]]" articles for all countries.'''

message: If you are interested in Environment, Wildlife, Conservation and Nature etc. please join in to contribute, even starting off with making new stub class articles will be a great contribution.
Sincerely
Atulsnischal 16:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We need senior administrators or people who are long in Wikipedia to help us with the templates and for other further helps. Details can be seen in its talk page. IT's urgent. We want this wkiproject to be added to the exsisting WP:IND banner. Amartyabag  TALK2ME 05:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Invitation for [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Protected areas of India]] & Conservation'''

message: This is an article on a political movement. I find it odd that it does not have the standard "Criticisms" section. Shall we create one? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hyphen5 (talk • contribs) 07:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, just like other political movement pages, Environmentalism deserves some sort of criticisms page.  Environmentalism is like capitalism or socialism or any other political/economical end, the basic promoted image of the movement may appear to be in flawless good-will, but in truth there are many objects in the movement that are open to criticism.--64.75.187.195 09:24, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In The Descent of Man Charles Darwin wrote that "preservationism" (aka environmentalism) is counter-evolutionary and wrong. Maybe someone could add that into the article. --RucasHost 02:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticisms? 

message: I removed a bit of text that pushed back the environmentalism movement's history by equating pantheistic and animistic beliefs with environmenatl beliefs. If we wish to do so, then the evironmental movement's history could be pushed back well beyond pre-history to about 30 000 years bp. I think keeping the concepts separate helps the article remain encycopedic. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 23:02, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If pantheism has to go perhaps Muir has to go as well, Donald Worster described Muir's belief's as "full-blown pantheism" John Muir and the Modern: Passion for Nature KAM 23:25, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In a sense I don't disgree. The problem with finding the historical beginning of things is that there is always a step beyond the horizon. Yes, pantheism in a sense is proto-environmentalism but environmentalism was not the sole off-spring of pantheistic beliefs or believers. John Muirs writings influenced the neophyte conservation movement not because he was a pantheist. The environemtal movement had many fathers and mothers: some political, some philosophical, some religious, some scientific and some pragmatic (the NIMBY's bring in a lot of environmental converts). Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 23:49, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Environmentalism]], [[pantheism]], and [[animism]]

message: Consider this  definition of environmentalism from a different point of view: [quoting] "environmentalism is an activist political movement, with moral and religious overtones, aimed at alleviating perceived and fancied human woes falsely attributed to misuse of the natural environment; a movement which uses the power of state laws to regulate individual economic choice to the diminishment of human values and life." the article quotes the wikipedia definition and strongly calls the neutrality of the environmentalism article into question. thus the neutrality tag. Full article: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff151.html
:Environmentalism is defined by the Encarta dictionary as "concern for the environment", by Merriam-Webster dictionary  as "advocacy of the preservation, restoration, or improvement of the natural environment" and by the Cambridge English dictionary as "an interest in or the study of the environment, in order to protect it from damage by human activities". The article as it now exists reflects all of these definitions from Real World respected and reliable sources. Thus, I've removed the neutrality tag. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 12:05, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The dictionary definition may not necessary be the right one. Environmental writer Daniel B. Botkins says "the word environmentalism has grown to have a wide variety of meanings and is used loosely but rather narrowly. Even the dictionaries give it a narrow meaning." Botkins definition is this: "The term environmentalism...generally refers to a political movement that began in the twentieth century as a reaction to the negative environmental effects of technology, civilization, and a large human population." KAM 16:55, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Environmentalism as a political movement, definition

message: This article makes no mention of the many criticisms of environmentalism. This article seems to reflect mainly the attitudes/bias of the Western upper-middle class.
Some common criticisms not mentioned:
1. Environmentalism hurts poor people by slowing the rate of economic growth.
2. Environmentalism is best understood as a New Religious Movement, and not a necessary response to environmental science.
3. Environmentalism represents Western elites at the expense of those less advantaged.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.111.3.70 (talk) June 26, 2007 15:06
:Remember this is supposed to be an encyclopedia article about environmentalism and not a critique. According to Wikipedia policy a good article is broad in its coverage, focused without going into unnecessary details, and written from a neutral point of view. And, the article must not contain original research or opinion but must provide reliable and verifiable sources. So I say be bold and make your edits (but provide your sources not your opinions). Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 02:47, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to add a section on criticism that contains references. Your criticisms of the environmental movement do not have wide support:
#It is govt policy rather than environmentalism that hurts the less affluent. There is an increasing gap between rich and poor that is an artefact of capitalism in my opinion. Note that economic growth is unsustainable in the long term. Environmentalist are often ties in with justice and human rights groups.
#Environmentalism is NOT a religion. It is a social movement that is reacting to the discovery by science that our activity is harming the very systems that we rely upon. There is no environmental god there is no environmental church. It is about as religious as sport - you can have a religious fervour for sport as you can with environmentalism.
#Yes, environmentalism is generally about western elites but there are exceptions such as the Chipko movement in India. Environmentalists do often concern themselves with the "undeveloped" countries or those in the "South"  especially logging. Alan Liefting 21:07, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Except, you know, that whole deal in Romania where environmentalists protested a mining operation so a bunch of people are stuck in Middle Age living conditions in the middle of winter. Or when environemntalists protested sending corn to Africa to save starving people bcause the corn was genetically engineered. The problem, as I see it, is that it doesn't link to any criticism at all, and most pages on political issues DO.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Legendary (talk • contribs) 07:57, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biased 

message: Anyone watching this page might be interested in this new article. The wiki editor appears to also be the author of the only source given. I'm not sure what to do with it since it's so narrowly defined and needs a lot of help to get up to Wikipedia standards. Could someone jump in on this one? It might need to be merged elsewhere. Thanks --Rkitko (talk) 16:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting entry. It is related to Nature conservation and the Indian subregion.Gabriel Kielland 20:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Traditional conservation practices]] 

message: Environmentalists that promote nuclear power, in a similar way to yellow union in the workplace scope.--Nukeless (talk) 11:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yellow environmentalism 

message: This should be mentioned. 65.163.112.205 02:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is best to be added to Environmental movement in the United States.  This article is about the global aspects of environmentalism. See WP:CSB for more info. -- Alan Liefting-talk- 05:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Operation Backfire (FBI)]]

message: The earliest known writings concerned with environmental pollution were Arabic medical treatises written between the 9th and 13th centuries, by physicians such as al-Kindi (Alkindus), Qusta ibn Luqa (Costa ben Luca), Muhammad ibn Zakarīya Rāzi (Rhazes), Ibn Al-Jazzar, al-Tamimi, al-Masihi, Ibn Sina (Avicenna), Ali ibn Ridwan, Ibn Jumay, Isaac Israeli ben Solomon, Abd-el-latif, Ibn al-Quff, and Ibn al-Nafis. Their works covered a number of subjects related to pollution such as air contamination, water contamination, soil contamination, solid waste mishandling, and environmental assessments of certain localities.L. Gari (2002), "Arabic Treatises on Environmental Pollution up to the End of the Thirteenth Century", Environment and History 8 (4), pp. 475-488.
This section no doubt is historically true but it is not directly associated with the history of 'environmentalism'. Ancient peoples wrote and practiced all sorts of things that could be called environmentalism but is not historically linked directly with the origins of environmentalism in the 19th C. This habit of reaching way back into the past to find 'proto-' examples of modern movements, organizations and ideas is to stretch the idea origins out of shape. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 14:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am aware that the modern movement of environmentalism arose as a reaction to industrialization. However, according to the lead paragraph of the article, the prevention of pollution is one of the main concerns of environmentalism. Since this issue has clearly been discussed in medieval Arabic and Latin sources, I think it is important to at least briefly mention them in the article, as long as it makes it clear that the modern environmental movement arose due to industrialization. Jagged 85 (talk) 20:01, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed from history

message: A page on environmentalism does not have a link to recycling???  65.125.133.211 (talk) 18:18, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It does indirectly via List of environmental issues. Since there is a large number of concerns that the environmental movement has there is no point in metioning secific issues. That is left to other pages. -- Alan Liefting-talk- 22:26, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recycling