Talk:Scott Baio

message: We've already established that he's given both 60 and 61 as his year of birth, so we have to use independent sources at this point. We have two reliable sources for the two years, so we've been including both. --Hipal/Ronz (talk) 15:59, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Who's the "we" and "we've" you keep injecting? The few editors who've discussed this in the past? You claim that "He's" given 61 as his year of birth?? Really? Please provide reliable sources that show Baio, in his own voice, says his birth year was 1961. I'll bet zero exist. We know that he clearly addressed this matter on his official Twitter account when he said, "My birthday is September 22, 1960."https://twitter.com/scottbaio/status/512433275407990784 One other point. You said there are "two reliable sources" for 1960. Actually, there are dozens of strong, reliable sources for 1960. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 23:50, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: See the previous discussion. --Hipal (talk) 01:57, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You see the previous discussion and provide the proof requested. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 02:41, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

text: Yet again, no proof. Just talk. Show me, in Baio's own voice, him ever saying he was born in 1961 or any year other than 1960. This is proof in Baio's own voice that he was born in 1960: https://twitter.com/scottbaio/status/512433275407990784 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 19:00, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

text: That was not in Baio's voice and it's the same source in duplicate. It was merely someone managing that website that posted the information. And, as you pointed out, it was later change e.g. corrected, which further supports 1960. But everyone, including you, already knew it was 1960 once Baio posted his full date of birth, himself, on his official Twitter account. Instead of trying so hard to "win," just admit that you know and believe he was born in 1960. The tone of all your comments indicate you don't even believe your own words. Please, just stop this foolishness. You knew as soon as you saw Baio's Twitter post >>> https://twitter.com/scottbaio/status/512433275407990784 <<< that he was born in 1960. Just acknowledge it and move on. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 19:03, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: We agree he's given multiple years, so he's unreliable. --Hipal (talk) 16:55, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: He's not reliable for his own birth year

message: Shouldn't this be changed as he's now acting again. 109.150.194.28 (talk) 17:57, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Please indicate a reference? --Hipal (talk) 18:19, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000281/ 109.150.194.28 (talk) 18:58, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. We shouldn't use IMDB directly, but it gives us the credits to use to search for proper refs. --Hipal (talk) 21:06, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

text: I don't understand the problem, isn't IMDb a reliable source? Thanks anyway. 86.188.32.235 (talk) 23:08, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: IMDB is not reliable, per WP:IMDB. I don't see either recent acting job listed at IMDB, Quigley and Courting Mom and Dad, as having articles or mention anywhere in Wikipedia, so we'll have to find references of our own. --Hipal (talk) 03:45, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Years Active. 

message: Relevant policies are WP:BLP (especially WP:DOB, and note the 2021 RFC), WP:V, WP:RS, WP:OR, WP:NPOV.
My take is that we list '60 and '61. The one ref for '62 is worth considering. I'm not finding any reliable sources for '59, nor any other years.
How much, if any, weight does Baio's recent tweets deserve, given that he's stated at least three different years, and the majority of his life he's said '61? My interpretation of policy and the general consensus is to leave them out completely, unless there's an independent, reliable source that discusses the different years. As I already pointed out, a correction from Baio would be worth considering. I expect we'll be headed to BLPN at some point, but I'd like to be at a point where all proposals are supported by policy. --Hipal (talk) 01:10, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know exactly what you're trying to pull, but this is now the third thread you've started on the current talk page about this this very topic/dispute; first as Ronz and then in the others as Hipal. Just yesterday, you refused to participate in a discussion on the second thread because you claimed you didn't want the discussion split, and so referred back to the first one. With the creation of this third thread, any reasonable person might conclude that you're purposely trying to confuse editors and steer them away from all the prior evidence and discussion, or lack thereof on your part. In any case, anyone can see from the above threads that your frequent pattern is to either ignore what's being said to you or, alternately, speak in very vague terms, and instead refer or link to an endless number of policy, guideline, essay, and other pages, even if they do not apply; and, most importantly, refuse to cooperatively participate to solve problems. It's as if your goal is to wear other editors down with your ongoing intransigence and gaslighting in the hopes that they will eventually get so frustrated with you that they'll simply give up and you'll "win". You have filed your noticeboard complaint about what's going on this article and, sadly, have refused to listen to the excellent feedback they have given you, preferring instead to fight on to the bitter end. > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1077758860#Ip_disrupting_Scott_Baio 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 02:16, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm summarizing my perspective, and the policies that apply. --Hipal (talk) 03:41, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: If you felt your perspective needed to be repeated, you should've done it in the already-existing thread(s). For the record, your long list of links are not all policies, nor do you provide any context whatsoever in terms of how each of them applies to this very focused dispute. While you included WP:V, an extremely important link you failed to specifically mention is its subsection WP:ABOUTSELF (or WP:TWITTER), which directly applies to this tweet and this tweet from Baio. You claim in this thread that "a correction from Baio would be worth considering", yet you have continually refused to accept his two very clear and definitive tweets about his own year of birth. One could conclude by all your actions that you actually have no interest in this dispute ever being settled because a stance like yours would guarantee it. Perhaps you should ask yourself one question: Who knows Scott Baio's date of birth more: a secondary source such as a newspaper, magazine or book; or Scott Baio? I'll post any future comments in the previously-existing threads on this topic, not here. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 05:23, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

text: I was hoping to find common ground with you and whoever else will participate. I'll continue here. --Hipal (talk) 16:25, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

text: So let me get this straight. You allude to MOS:LEADCITE and decide that the interpretation and overall summary of it that you'll present to other editors is essentially that the lead shouldn't have any references? Well, "ideally". It is distractions, absurd comments, and misrepresentations like this that only serve to support the concern that your presence may be a disruption not only to this article, but more importantly to our collective goal of improving this project. Now, let's take a glance at the Manual of Style section you presented and see what it really says, particularly with regard to this dispute. It says,  The guideline also tells us that  We'll assume that you're not disputing the glaring fact that the debate over the subject's birth year began over eight years ago. The birth date or year is not even mentioned in the body. Finally, it should also be noted that your edit history shows that you added a ref to the lead as early as 2018, when you took control of this message board, and also did so as recently as a few days ago. You also restored the infamous Time magazine source in 2018 that had been removed. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 18:49, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The birth date should be in the body of the article, properly referenced. --Hipal (talk) 20:00, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: So, after these many years of your involvement in this dispute, you suddenly decide, while in the midst of your days-long noticeboard pleas, that Baio's birth date should be in the body of the article? This aligns with your other sudden determinations over the past 24 hours; that the neutrality of the entire article should be in dispute, that there are too many refs in the lead, and then that there shouldn't be any refs in the lead at all. It's not about the editing choices, but rather your constant inconsistencies and contradictions in what you say and do. But what's far more concerning is the fact that you've once again completely ignored almost every word an editor has said to you in response to your comments. You mischaracterized an important guideline, I countered it with evidence, and you pretend it doesn't exist. Your ongoing poking, prodding, and other disruptive actions, as well as your refusal to cooperatively participate in any meaningful discussion with editors is very problematic. Anyone can read this message board to verify what I'm saying. Your maneuvers go on and on, non-stop, including on the the noticeboard. One must wonder if you're here to help or incite. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 20:54, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

text: Hipal, please stop your disruptive editing. You mischaracterized MOS:LEADCITE (above), I responded and corrected with quoted evidence, you ignored everything I said, and then, finally, you had the nerve to make an edit with this edit summary. You not only pretended what you did never happened, but falsely implied that there was some sort of consensus or agreement. Then, on top of that, you do this, and justify it again by throwing out some non-linked policies with no context and and yet another essay. You reverted your "test" (which should not be done in an article), but these edits again show why you make it very difficult for other editors to work with you. You do not care what anyone tells you, and rarely even acknowledge what is being said to you. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 01:17, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

text: Yet more evidence of my earlier concern: that you appear to have absolutely no interest in simply settling this matter by accepting what Baio has consistently and repeatedly stated himself on his official accounts over the past 10+ years, as he did here and here, confirming that he was born in 1960 Also, he includes it here on his official website, which he is actively involved in operating to this day. Even the New York Birth Index, which uses data from official government records, verifies it. Although we cannot use the NYBI as a source here, it's yet more solid evidence of the birth year. I am asking you again to please provide all links you have that show Baio, in his own voice, stating he was born in any year other than 1960. Just give us a simple list, so all editors can see it. You have continually insisted that Baio himself has said he was born in 1959, 1961, and 1962, but have provided no proof. So, please, show us that Baio actually stated another birth year. That way, we can review what was stated, the credibility of the sources, and the dates they were published. If you can provide anything that was put out after 2010, that would be very valuable since his tweet saying  "I was born Sept 22 19-SIXTY (NOT 1961)" was in 2010. Please do not ignore this request once again; either provide the proof or simply acknowledge that you cannot find any. If that's the case, we could/should list his birth year as 1960, as he has definitively stated publicly, and then perhaps add a sentence that simply explains that prior to year XXXX, secondary sources differed on his birth year. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 00:29, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

text: What is wrong with you? After everything that editors have been telling you, are you seriously proposing a layout that removes every source from Baio's official accounts, including his two tweets definitively stating that 1960 is his birth year? You do not listen to or even acknowledge anything that anyone says to you. A reasonable person can only wonder if you are actually trolling all of us. Finally, and for the second time, stop doing live test edits in the article. Do it somewhere else. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 01:47, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It's the beginning of a proposal to change the article in an effort to resolve this eleven-year-old dispute. What is your preferred version other than the current version? --Hipal (talk) 02:15, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

text: (refactor) I'm unclear how common '60 vs '61 is at this point. I've found no independent, reliable sources discussing the two possible years. --Hipal (talk) 01:08, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

text: And for the ShowBizNews ref:  --Hipal (talk) 22:53, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The author for the wsj article is Mike Vilensky. --Hipal (talk) 22:59, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The author for the BuzzFeed ref is Matt Stopera. This is a very poor ref because it's simply a list. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/reliable-source/wp/2015/03/11/scott-baio-supports-wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-for-president/ could be used as a replacement. --Hipal (talk) 16:16, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

text: I don't understand why there are two refs for his campaigning for and attending the funeral of Reagan. The Hollywood.com ref should be fine. The quote from a different reference may be undue per WP:QUOTE. --Hipal (talk) 16:52, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The second yahoo.com ref is dated July 19, 2016, authored by Hunter Walker. --Hipal (talk) 20:33, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The news.com.au ref is dated August 27, 2017. --Hipal (talk) 16:40, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The Mercury News ref was authored by Martha Ross. --Hipal (talk) 19:30, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The 2018 Newsweek ref should be titled "Who Is Renee Sloan? Scott Baio's Wife Diagnosed With Microvascular Brain Disease" --Hipal (talk) 17:01, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

text: I'm not seeing any reason to continue here. If there's an independent reference that addresses the discrepancies directly, it might be useful to look closer. --Hipal (talk) 16:31, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone ahead and made the reference changes mentioned above. I didn't remove the quote. --Hipal (talk) 16:01, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop your disruptive behavior. As was previously stated, no changes can be made until a clear consensus is reached. You are not the judge and jury here. Revert yourself. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 03:31, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: These are routine improvements, with not a single response to this discussion. --Hipal (talk) 22:22, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: (My response above was to the comment  which was deleted against WP:TALK. [] --Hipal (talk) 19:08, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

text: If there's no policy-based objection, I'll be restoring all these routine improvements. --Hipal (talk) 16:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "wrong location/forgot to remove after originally posted, duplicate below where it was intended." Stoarm (talk) 14:58, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

text: This is where it was meant to go. Stoarm (talk) 15:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to properly present and verify his date of birth 

message: It might be helpful to examine all references for dob information. My impression is that few said '60 before the reality shows, and very slowly '61 became more common after. If there's anything about the discrepancy in a reliable source, it would be helpful to include. --Hipal (talk) 16:55, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: (refactor) I'm unclear how common '60 vs '61 is at this point. I've found no independent, reliable sources discussing the two possible years. --Hipal (talk) 01:08, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

text: And for the ShowBizNews ref:  --Hipal (talk) 22:53, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The author for the wsj article is Mike Vilensky. --Hipal (talk) 22:59, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The author for the BuzzFeed ref is Matt Stopera. This is a very poor ref because it's simply a list. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/reliable-source/wp/2015/03/11/scott-baio-supports-wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-for-president/ could be used as a replacement. --Hipal (talk) 16:16, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

text: I don't understand why there are two refs for his campaigning for and attending the funeral of Reagan. The Hollywood.com ref should be fine. The quote from a different reference may be undue per WP:QUOTE. --Hipal (talk) 16:52, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The second yahoo.com ref is dated July 19, 2016, authored by Hunter Walker. --Hipal (talk) 20:33, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The news.com.au ref is dated August 27, 2017. --Hipal (talk) 16:40, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The Mercury News ref was authored by Martha Ross. --Hipal (talk) 19:30, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The 2018 Newsweek ref should be titled "Who Is Renee Sloan? Scott Baio's Wife Diagnosed With Microvascular Brain Disease" --Hipal (talk) 17:01, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

text: I'm not seeing any reason to continue here. If there's an independent reference that addresses the discrepancies directly, it might be useful to look closer. --Hipal (talk) 16:31, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone ahead and made the reference changes mentioned above. I didn't remove the quote. --Hipal (talk) 16:01, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop your disruptive behavior. As was previously stated, no changes can be made until a clear consensus is reached. You are not the judge and jury here. Revert yourself. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 03:31, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: These are routine improvements, with not a single response to this discussion. --Hipal (talk) 22:22, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: (My response above was to the comment  which was deleted against WP:TALK. [] --Hipal (talk) 19:08, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

text: If there's no policy-based objection, I'll be restoring all these routine improvements. --Hipal (talk) 16:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "wrong location/forgot to remove after originally posted, duplicate below where it was intended." Stoarm (talk) 14:58, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

text: This is where it was meant to go. Stoarm (talk) 15:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Should we examine all refs for DOB info?

message: Editors may view the entire discussion, which has been closed. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 21:54, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That's no reason to revert or continue edit-warring. --Hipal (talk) 22:39, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baio's date of birth: admin noticeboard discussion 

message: I've been running across mentions of pre-Bugsy acting. It might be worth searching for early biographies written around his success in Bugsy and Happy Days. --Hipal (talk) 20:16, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: So it doesn't get overlooked:  --Hipal (talk) 17:14, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

text: https://jenniferschrinel.medium.com/so-who-is-scott-baio-and-why-do-people-not-take-the-time-out-before-they-jude-4a25a1414812 I've been unable to identify the specific month this was published. --Hipal (talk) 23:35, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Pre-Bugsy work

message: *Happier Days: Paramount Television's Classic Sitcoms, 1974-1984 by Marley Brant, 2006, p 48: "The charismatic actor Scott Vincent James Baio was born in Brooklyn, New York, on Septempber 22, 1961, to Italian parents Rose and Mario Baio."
*:Found this while looking for earlier refs. There's a paragraph on his early life. I'm not seeing any obvious CIRCULAR problems. --Hipal (talk) 22:58, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No luck finding anything that's easily and free to search. I'm stumped on how to search for specific publications in archive.org. --Hipal (talk) 17:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

text: Re "Tiger Beat": There's an interview of his parents. I'm having trouble identifying the exact publication. Maybe "Tiger Beat Star", February, 1978, p38. --Hipal (talk) 17:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Searching for new refs to use

message: Why is the photo of Baio in the infobox so old and bad? Are there no better ones? Forgive me if this is foolishness, for I am an infant and cannot speak. JGT Webb (talk) 18:16, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: , I agree that the photo is bad. However, for reasons of compliance with copyright law, any photo must be freely licensed, and this is the only freely licensed photo of Baio now on Wikimedia Commons. Cullen328 (talk) 00:29, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox photo 

message: Baio's wedding to Sloan was reported to be in December'07, as the People ref verifies. However, non-disclosures from the television production makes it difficult to determine if their legal marriage date was actually Sep 14, as the Baio's subsequently said. I'm hesitant to use scottbaio.com alone, given the discussions we've already had about it. I'm not finding any refs of similar or better quality than People confirming September. --Hipal (talk) 15:48, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wedding date