Talk:Pacific Motorway (Sydney–Newcastle)

message: At the top of this article it says "Although the route was never signed with the F3 route marker (the numbering system was removed in 1982)". This is incorrect because "F3" is actually signposted approximately every 1000metres along the freeway which menas there is around 170 "F3" markers along the freeway. Allthough F3 isn't the official route number for the road, it is the technical identifier for the particular section of National highway. Could everyone please comment before I modify the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.236.204 (talk) 09:35, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The legend "F3" on the identification signs for the median crossovers is not an F3 route marker.202.93.188.24 (talk) 10:28, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

text: There are also numourous road signs along the old pacific highway that say 'F3 FREEWAY' and however many kilometres until the next on ramp.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Austvguy (talk • contribs) 13:14, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Again, none of those are the route marker. They simply refer to the former classification of the freeway/continuing colloquial name for it. 202.93.188.24 (talk) 11:29, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While the F3 designation is not actually signposted, it is the title that is used by the RTA and the state and federal governments to refer to this road.  It is not just a continuing colloquial name, it is a continuing official designation even if it isn't actually on the signs.  --Athol Mullen (talk) 05:58, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The questioned entry refers to the route marker, not a roadname reference as you've indicated. The paragraph/statement in question should stand as it is true and accurate. 124.187.170.124 (talk) 22:00, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  As far as I can see, two things make a road name an official designation: a proclamation under Part 5 of the Roads Act 1993 (which is your Freeway/Highway/Main Road designation) or under Section 162 which is the name. The F3 is no longer classified as Freeway No. 3 under Division 5, which is where the F3 nickname/colloquialism has it's background, it is now classified as Freeway No. 6003 - the number changed when the RTA removed the duplication of road numbers between State Highways and Freeways. As far as I'm aware, the name under Section 162 is "Sydney-Newcastle Freeway". However, I'm not sure where to find a database of road names in NSW to double-check that. Pending that I'm afraid "F3 Freeway" is not an official name or designation ;-) 202.93.188.24 (talk) 11:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "F3 Never Marked" is Incorrect

message: Arggh! Its not the M1 yet- there is no known date for its introduction, and it is still flagged as the National 1. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Quaidy (talk • contribs) 2:19, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: M1

message: From Mt Colah to Cowan there is widening taking place for about 11 kilometers because it is extremly congested being only four-lane freeway when on both sides it is six-lane freeway! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.183.122.166 (talk • contribs) 04:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *They don't actually say when it was to open, but the rta web page on this says that there was to be "milling and resheeting of existing asphalt surface" southbound to mid June and northbound from July to September. It sounds as if, once they finished the resheeting, they opened up the extra lanes southbound, so there's a good chance the same will happen northbound from the Berowra exit in about September. Pity there's no actual ref to opening date on the RTA site. :( --Athol Mullen (talk) 07:17, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Freeway widening (Mt Colah to Cowan, section 2) 

message: I have noticed there are no plans or even let alone any funding arrangements for freeway widening beyong Kariong to Somersby because it is only four lane section when it is six lanes on both sides - Shame on you John Howard! If this is ever done six lanes will be achieved from the start of the F3 at Wahroonga all the way to the Tuggerah interchange - It is not that hard to do the widening there, when there are no rock faces in the way at all (Like there is in the section between Mt Colah to Cowan), just a bunch of scrub bushes in the median and is only about 5 kilometers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 04:57, 30 April 2007 (talk • contribs).
*There is not enough traffic on that section to need the extra lanes, and isn't likely to be until after the whole section between Gosford and Sydney is upgraded to 4 lanes each way. The section near Paruna is worse in many ways, because even though there isn't enough traffic to need the extra lanes, people don't keep left so the capacity is artificially reduced. I probably should find references for some of this and add it to the article. --Athol Mullen 05:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Freeway widening (Kariong to Somersby, section 3) 

message: Please where is Paruna?
When you mean 4 lanes on each side - Do you mean 3 lanes on each side with a 'shoulder'?
:Paruna is the nickname or original name for the twin Caltex service stations just north of Wyong. Timmah86 06:35, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *At the time of opening, Paruna was the official name of the twin service centres on the Wyong Bypass section of the F3. I don't know if it's still used since it changed from Oak to McDonalds. --Athol Mullen 10:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paruna 

message: I propose to merge the Route and Connections sections, probably in the form of merging the Connections section into the Route section, as the content is largely the same. I also propose to add more information about how many lales wide it is, speed limits, etc. within that section. Of course, anyone else is welcome to do this before I get around to it. :-) --Athol Mullen 14:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This work has in effect been completed as of today. Lanes on freeway is representative of number of lanes FOLLOWING the stated exit/entry point as one travels south to north. All towns in the interchanges table have been Wiki linked where appropriate and have not been double linked. Timmah86 (talk) 05:04, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge sections? 

message: does anyone know why there is only north off and south on at mt colah? why they didnt build north facing ramps as well beacuse there is heaps of room? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.240.5.180 (talk • contribs) 07:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * This is not an official answer, but I assume that it is because prior to this section's (Berowra-Wahroonga) opening, the Pacific Highway between Berowra and Hornsby had just been upgraded to 2 divided lanes in each direction (3 through berowra). thus reducing the need for such access ramps at the Ku-ring-gai Chase Road intersection. However, the 2004 report into the F3-M2 link recommended that these missing north facing ramps should be constructed to improve access to Hornsby to and from the F3. 129.78.64.100 07:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

text: * A southbound exit at Ku-ring-gai Chase Rd would meet strong opposition by the national parks authority. There are already a number of residents of the Mt Colah area who use Bobbin Head Road through the national park to avoid the end of the F3 and use this route as a way of connecting to the Pacific Highway at Pymble. Providing a southbound exit here would encourage a huge volume of traffic through a route that was never intended to carry it. 129.78.64.100 03:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

text: *Interesting. Is there a link available to provide more information on that? --Athol Mullen (talk) 00:02, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: * Dont think the proposal is avaliable online but the environmental factors report on the RTA website mentions it http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/constructionmaintenance/downloads/f3widening/f3_widening_main_report.pdf Austvguy (talk) 11:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  interchanges 

message: Hey check out this video of someone squeezing their way into the front of the turning bay at the wahroonga entrance to the F3 from pacific highway. http://valk.dreamhosters.com/f3merge.avi  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.194.82 (talk) 14:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video footage 

message: The spelling of Mt Kuring-gai is wrong. I grew up and went to school at Mt Kuring-gai. The national park is called Ku-ring-gai but the suburb of Mt Kuring-gai is Mt Kuring-gai. Note where the dashes lie. Please update the main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.224.123 (talk • contribs) 21:38, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ku-ring-gai vs Mt Kuring-gai 

message: Sydney-Newcastle Freeway will be renamed Pacific Motorway. There is already an article Pacific Motorway which is for Queensland, so the new name for this page should be Pacific Motorway (New South Wales) Marcnut1996 (talk) 08:01, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Former Proposal

message: Although this is called the Sydney–Newcastle Freeway, the infobox is setup to show the start at Newcastle and the finish at Sydney, ie it's describing the Newcastle–Sydney Freeway. I've converted the infobox here, using the new code from the sandbox. --AussieLegend (✉) 20:36, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newcastle–Sydney Freeway 

message: Ive just realised, what is the allocation of the ends of all the roads terminating around the Sthn F3 terminus. We may need to recheck the following in the future:
*Does the M1 allocation terminate at Metroad 1 or continue to Pennant Hills Rd?
*Does the A28 allocation terminate at the Pacific Motorway freeway ending, Metroad 1 (via Pacific Motorway), or State Route 83?
*Does the State Route 83 actually end at the intersection west of the Metroad 1 overpass?
From Google Maps it would appear:
*Met 7, SR83, and Met 1 terminate to the west of the Met 1 overpass
*NH1 terminates at Pennant Hills Road (Met 7)
Assuming no changes:
*A28, B83, and A1 terminate to the west of the A1 overpass
*M1 terminates at Pennant Hills Road (A28)
Though if the location that the routes meet is changed to the A1 overpass (to maintain no "extra legs" on M1 or A1), things could be different.
We will likely need to wait for the new allocations to be in place on the ground to be sure we are accurate, for now I will fix according to Google Maps. -- Nbound (talk) 12:03, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allocation of Pacific Motorway 

message: With the recent name change and new signage now appearing with the name "PACIFIC MWY", I think it would be appropriate to change to "Motorway" -- Nbound (talk) 06:24, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I will agree with you. But AussieLegend said that the road signs still say "Freeway" and therefore the type is "freeway". See the edits by him . Marcnut1996 (talk) 06:36, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah thats why I didnt edit it (I think I did the original change to Motorway aswell). There will of course be plenty of Freeway signs until the RTA removes and replaces them which could be years to decades. but on new signs: . That one is at Tuggerah Interchange. Other signs at Tuggerah I'change still do say the generic "Freeway" -- Nbound (talk) 07:14, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Btw, I am happy to keep it as freeway (they both link to the same article anyway), but if others want it, I would prefer the change :) -- Nbound (talk) 07:23, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I drove it again yesterday and today. Even recently coverplated signs say "FREEWAY". At Wahroonga, approaching the road from the east, the sign says "F3 Freeway" while at Palmers Road the sign just says "FREEWAY". They may have changed the name but there have been no road works that would indicate a status change from freeway to anything else so it's verifiably a freeway while its motorway status is just an assumption based on a new name. It will be interesting to see what the signs on the Hunter Expressway say. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:13, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: 12:05, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fair enough but it's understandable that the name is used. However, the signs along the access roads don't say "F3 Freeway" (except at Wahroonga), "Sydney-Newcastle Freeway", or "Pacific Motorway", they just say a generic "Freeway". --AussieLegend (✉) 14:49, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: As I stated earlier, Im not chasing this for the time being. Just thought you might be interested from a roadgeek perspective :) -- Nbound (talk) 14:51, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

text: As a rough idea, and Im not attacking your method of choosing freeway, how many other sign changes should we need before (if) we change the road to motorway status? There no WP:OR involved though, the road is definitely motorway class (RMS refers to M routes as motorways). The question is more one of: do we reflect the majority signage, or do we reflect the RMS stance and roadway name?-- Nbound (talk) 11:23, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we'll see a fairly quick changeover when and if they change signs, but at the moment there are so many signs that say freeway, most notably the "start freeway" and "end freeway" signs at each end, that it's really a no-brainer. If they change signs to "start motorway" and "end motorway" we might have reason to change the article. It's not a numbers thing, it's significance. Regarding M allocations, the Hunter Expressway is a freeway and it has an M number. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:48, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: So its type should also be freeway? (I had assumed we'd just use expressway till this point, given that is in use on its on-road signage) - Nbound (talk) 12:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think we can assume anything from the road's name. Is Thunderbolts Way a "way", whatever that is? If you go by the route numbering there are no freeways in NSW, only motorways and routes of national or state significance, which clearly isn't correct. In reality, there's no real difference between a motorway, freeway or expresway, but if a route is physically designated as a freeway, we should refer to it as such. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:16, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough... Ill leave this until such time as signage and/or the RMS position on the new routes becomes clearer and/or changes :) -- Nbound (talk) 12:27, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  My following idea seems stupid but makes a lot of sense..... Call it an "M-grade road". Solves everything. Marcnut1996 (talk) 12:48, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There could be some method in your madness :D :P. My only problem with that is that noone would know what it means. You could say "motorway grade", but then we are back to the same discussion as before, unless we are happy with having a "motorway grade freeway" :S lol! -- Nbound (talk) 13:01, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I realise a Q+A post isnt exactly the most RS out there: http://engage.haveyoursay.nsw.gov.au/road-route-markers?module=qanda&qn_id=4560#single_question_4560 - would seem that this is probably at least an inevitability, if you want to wait until its on the ground, its all good :) -- Nbound (talk) 12:41, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Found new content here which again backs up the view - Straight from the official Q+A Sheet (page 3). Will do the change, posting link here as that parameter doesnt support them. -- Nbound (talk) 09:19, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The road is still heavily signposted as a freeway, most notably the "start freeway" and "end freeway" signs. Some signs have been changed while others haven't. Along the length of the road, some signs that had the Highway 1 shield on them have been changed to M1, while others haven't been touched. Even the illuminated signs on the road that work (those that have more than a single pixel illuminated) just state it's a name change. Really, what's the difference between a freeway and a motorway anyway? And just to continue the confusion, on page 2 of the pdf you linked is "the route connecting the Sydney to Newcastle Freeway and Newcastle City." --AussieLegend (✉) 10:58, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The change is rationalising all these roads as "motorways" - internally though, according to the schedule of roads they are all freeways (even when named motorway/etc. - along with some other bypasses and other sections). Which is kind of why I wanted a internal type/number parameter a while back. Then, if need be, the distinction could be made. The PDF was released back at the beginning of the change, so its referring to the road using the old terms, in that context calling the road anything else would be confusing, doubly so because the change mentioned isnt mentioned until page 3 -- Nbound (talk) 11:40, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If the schedule of roads calls them freeways then that's what we should call them. Page 3 of the PDF says "When the changes are introduced, where applicable the signage which currently indicates the freeway start and finish points will also be changed to reflect the new motorway names." That hasn't happened yet so the road, according to the pdf, is still a freeway, even though it's of motorway standard. Page 11 would seem to support this; these are name changes, not a change in the road type. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:12, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change <code>|type=</code> to Motorway? 

message: Word around roadgeek circles is that the "F3 Freeway" signs will have their coverplates removed or add to show "Pacific Motorway" around August 19. Would be wise to get any pics needed of old signage now, or new signage soon after. Also good to keep more of an eye on the article :) -- Nbound (talk) 09:35, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not planning to be back in Sydney until 26 August, so I hope the rumours are wrong. The best F3 sign is the one on the right side of the Pacific Highway heading west at Wahroonga, just before turning right. At least we'll still have all the "F3 to Newcastle Intersection Upgrades" bunting that is near all of the stupid intersections that have replaced fully functional roundabouts in Wallsend. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:50, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Official confirmation: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/newsevents/news/2013/130815-next-round-of-alphanumeric-signs-newcastle.html -- Nbound (talk) 02:53, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Signs changing soon 

message: For information of interested editors, this article is included in the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian Roads#Pacific Highway which relates to all of the articles about the route(s) between Sydney and Brisbane with "Pacific" in their name. --Scott Davis Talk 09:19, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion about move/merge/restructure of this and related articles  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: I have seen (and heard) numerous amount of times that the F3 was part of Metroad 1. 
On the ozroads.com.au website, the F3 freeway is mentioned to be part of Metroad 1, although it was never signposted.
Here's a link to that.
https://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/sydney_mwy_R1.gif
: The map is not necessarily correct since it is not an official map. Even Ozroads says that Metroad 1 ends at Wahrooonga in the northern end. F3 was indeed part of National Highway 1 which is a different thing to Metroad 1. Marcnut1996 (talk) 00:02, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe there may be some confusion because there is a road in Sydney signposted as the M1 motorway. It confused me because it is nowhere near the F3. --AussieLegend (✉) 14:45, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metroad 1 

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