Talk:Dubstep/Archive 2

message: Is that the tune with the flute playing a broken chord at the start? If so I think I have it, could put another sample in the article to illustrate that point made in Characteristics. - Zeibura (Talk) 23:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what a broken chord is, but "Rutten" on his album has a flute at the beginning.--P4k 23:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: that's the one, it's a really basic track, from skreamizm vol.1; there's a jazzy flute melody, a filtered 'wubwubwub' sub, a kick, a snare, and sparse hihat. oh and a whip sample. an almost archetypal dubstep track, imo. a 30sec clip of the key change in the hook of midnight request line could be another goodun, actually.---Kaini 00:34, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Midnight Request Line sample we already have is of that exact moment, at least I think that's the bit you mean :) - Zeibura (Talk) 01:51, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: excellent stuff, that's the exact bit of rottan i would have picked to illustrate the slow/fast nature of the genre. --Kaini 02:19, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Skream - Rottan 

message: i'm having a damn hard time getting cites for the structure para i wrote; it is fact but WP:NOR and all that. all i got is production forum threads for now. blackdownsoundboy doesn't turn up much either :( --Kaini 00:40, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't think referencing every statement in that section is that much of a big deal - the samples offer some kind of reference, especially when the names of the tracks are linked to reliable sources, e.g. the skream tracks, they're mentioned all over the place in the references. Having a look at the GA reviewed version of drum and bass, that had paragraphs of detailed info about musicology with no citations. (section of the reviewed version of the article) - Zeibura (Talk) 01:45, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: expanded a bit. new redlink :o --Kaini 02:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  song structure 

message: additionally, being realistic regarding unwikifying some redlinks has been on my mind. FA articles don't generally  have many redlinks, and we have a whole bunch especially in the earlier history sections. perhaps unwikify zed bias, horsepower, et al for now? --00:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hah, I've just started work on these yesterday and today. I've created stubs for El-B and Benga (artist), and have listed the rest in my userspace here, so go ahead and turn them blue if you can! - Zeibura (Talk) 01:38, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: excellent! i've been sorta itchin to do a horsepower productions article or a loefah one... --Kaini 01:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: right, next up a loefah article, i think. btw i've been collecting a bunch of refs in my userspace if you guys wanna use em - here --Kaini 23:15, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Christ you guys are really on a roll here.--P4k 23:21, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ha, my weekend has consisted of playin chess, workin on wiki articles, and smoking way too much weed. rock and roll. --Kaini 23:27, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Certainly he's worth an article, what you've written verifiably passes WP:MUSIC criteria 1 and 7 with flying colours. Also that interview could be used to reference some statements, especially ones starting with "Nice has expressed that..." or "Nice has said..." etc. - Zeibura (Talk) 20:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it's up.--P4k 20:53, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  redlinks 

message: those two sample boxes justified left and right look hella clunky :( 
the little column of text in between is waaaay to skinny! my layout expertise extends to inserting line breaks, however. --Kaini 02:37, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Soz, that didn't occur to me, I always forget my screen resolution is wider than most people's! I've tried aligning them both to the left as you did but using the  template, how does that look to you? - Zeibura (Talk) 02:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it really is tweaking minutae, but the text in a chunk at the right, with the samples on the left like now? audio samples are kinda important, it's hard to get across the sound with just text. --Kaini 03:02, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah that looks much better, nice one :) - Zeibura (Talk) 03:05, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  layout 

message: Does anyone have a copy of issue 269 of Wire with Kode9's invisible jukebox? I managed to find this which says "As Kode9 observes in the fascinating Invisible Jukebox in this month's Wire, if you were subject to intense exposure to jungle in the 90s, there is no need for the double-time beats to be actually present any more; you provide them yourself." I was going to put that in as a quote, but it's not clear whether those were his exact words or not. Either way, it looks horrid as prose, so the exact quote would definitely be better! - Zeibura (Talk) 15:46, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i do, i'll dig it out later. i think his quote used the phrase 'we've internalised the double-time' or something along those lines. --Kaini 17:20, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kode9 on double time beats 

message: "the two misnamed 'Grime' compilations put together by Rephlex in 2004 (assisted by Ammunition)" (mentioned in the 03-05 section with a  tag) - any idea what these are called? - Zeibura (Talk) 02:04, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They're actually called "Grime" and "Grime 2"--hence "misnamed."--P4k 02:08, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

text: they are simply called Grime and Grime 2. i've never heard the second one; the first is rather pedestrian, rigid stuff imo. nice cover though. --Kaini 02:09, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. Found a couple of articles on cyclic defrost, but nothing to verify the "it introduced the different flavours to the global electronic music audience." statement on the end... what's that meant to say exactly, that the fact they were misnamed brought dubstep to the attention of the grime audience? - Zeibura (Talk) 02:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Grime compilations

message: .. the "nu rave-dubstep" sound which has been coming around recently, which is no doubt something to do with grindie? Artists like Milanese, Math Head, Emalkay... anyone familiar with what I mean? - Zeibura (Talk) 11:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the first I've heard of it unfortunately.  I guess my stock response would be that it's probably worth mentioning if it's gotten media attention, and we can't really mention it otherwise.--P4k 20:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

text: i only know of milanese, and i'd personally place them sorta teetering on the verge of idm and dubstep (which as vex'd have shown, is an interesting place to be). but i sort of know what you're on about nevertheless. i guess if you can find a source, fire away... --Kaini 21:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm, yeah I don't seem to be able to find anything. It might be me thinking it's happened when it hasn't yet and I'm just speculating, remembering what happened to electro house and grindie and jumping to conclusions. Milanese does seem to have a presence in the nu-rave/indie scene and I have seen discussions about dubstep turning "ravey", but nothing to support it. The closest thing is Neil Landstrumm's "rave-step" mix, which isn't quite the same. Great article in this month's DJ Mag about that though so might write an article on Landstrumm in a bit, I think its still a redlink.. - Zeibura (Talk) 23:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I removed the bit about him a little while ago because I have no idea who he is...I guess I assumed that he probably wasn't that well known within Techno, and thus not that useful as an example of the crossover.  Feel free to add it back if you think it's a good idea.--P4k 23:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it worth mentioning... 

message: *You guys have done some great work on the Dubstep article.  Drop me a line or leave a message at WP:EDM if/when you want a fresh set of eyes to copy-edit it.  In case you were wondering, the content of the first deleted version of this article was 
The current version is a little bit better ;-P.  Keep up the great work!  Wickethewok 17:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nice work and FYI

message: previously, the article talked very specifically about bass drops without really specifying what they are. i've written a section (still a bit rough at the moment) that hopefully conveys that. i'm having problems describing the sort of 'descending through an octave but bassy as hell' style bass drop used in skream and mystikz tracks though.
i thought rewinds/reloads were worth a mention too because they are so prevalent in a live context. i'll polish the section up a little in a while. --Kaini 22:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks good.  this column is mostly about rewinds and yet doesn't really contain anything useful.--P4k 22:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: after a bit of tweaking it will, but y'know the shackleton sample speaks ten thousand words, as is usual for sound samples in music articles :P --Kaini 22:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  bass drops and rewinds 

message: Think we're ready to nominate it yet? I can't see any obvious reasons why it wouldn't meet all 6 criteria. - Zeibura (Talk) 22:11, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Stability would probably be a problem, although that's kind of my fault.--P4k 23:34, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We haven't really been edit warring, just moving stuff around every now and again. Note 3 on Wikipedia:Reviewing good articles states the difference between unstability and collaborative improvements, while note 5 at WP:WIAGA says if the article does seem unstable because of constructive editing, it should be placed on hold, where the reviewer would give us feedback as to what we need to resolve or whatever. I doubt it'd fail because we've all been editing it, but perhaps to avoid anything happening we should each read the article through one more time and make any changes, then discuss any conflicts? - Zeibura (Talk) 09:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, there's certainly no edit warring.  I don't really know how the GA process works, so maybe you're right.  There are things I'm dissatisfied with, but I can't really fix them and I guess it doesn't need to be perfect to pass GA.  I probably won't be able to do more editing today, I'll try to read the article through tomorrow.  I think we should also get Wickethewok to take a look at it as he offered to do upthread  (full disclosure I knew Wicket IRL before I started editing Wikipedia).--P4k 19:17, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, definitely. His talk page says he's back on August 16, so that gives us some time to do some last editing. Is there anything in particular you're not happy with? - Zeibura (Talk) 19:23, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA status (2)

message: Hiya, some feedback for you as I said.  The bottom stuff under "Specific things for GA" is stuff that I think need to be done to pass GA.  GA isn't very strict and kinda random, but I think those things all need to be looked at.  As background, I have no specific knowledge of dubstep, but I know other electronicy music stuff.  I also did some minor copy-editing type stuff that should be looked over to make sure I didn't screw up any facts (see diff).  Anyways, my suggestions...
;Specific things for GA
*You need a longer lead, probably two paragraphs total, just summarize some more things
::had a crack at this. fine-tune at will :) --Kaini 23:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: one of these is a free sample - the 'rhythm' one, which i believe zeibura or p4k made. i guess i could get someone to make a GPL bass drop too... --Kaini 00:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: oh ok, there's another at the end. --Kaini 00:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Bass Clef one could probably go to be honest, I put that in at the start when there weren't any samples just to add some variation. I'll see if I can come up with another idea to replace the shackleton one as well. The other two are illustrative as they are though, as the article mentions the tracks, so this should be no problem. - Zeibura (Talk) 21:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

text: working on it :P --Kaini 00:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

text:  tweaked a bit. could maybe do with a bit more, still a tad clunky. --Kaini 00:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

text: he was wikilinked to Skull Disco in an audio example, the link in the article now too. --Kaini 23:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Some feedback

message: Now has an article. This page seems to have a lot of active contributors, so I thought you'd all like to know. Chubbles 21:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice work.P4k 00:30, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Various]]

message: I'm almost feeling ready to nominate this for GA now, as all Wickethewok's points have been addressed, but just want to see if anyone has any objections. - Zeibura (Talk) 10:10, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ready to nominate?