Talk:Massacres during the Greek War of Independence

message: The article has not a balance. Although the facts are presented, the paragraph about mas. of Greek explains very briefly the events. On the other hand the mas. against Turks are described with every detail, exact comments from sources are stated in every single event. Comments from historians that lived 60-70 years after the end of the Greek Revolution are mentioned, and I don't see the main idea about being so detailed, considered that outdated sources are usually less reliable. According to wiki standards 'W. Alison Phillips' 1897 notes should just be part of the footnotes and not the main article. If a wikipedian disagrees, I'm open to hear. But if the outdated comments are stated with every detail on the article what should we do with statements of the same year and place of the events? Alexikoua (talk) 11:19, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Form

message: Exactly what does the destruction of the Janissary corps have to do with a massacre (interpreted as the slaughter of civilians)? Or with the Greek Revolution, other than chronological coincidence? It is interesting, but to my view not pertinent to the article. Regards, Cplakidas 18:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Better provide sources laertes, where they are asked, or else these particular sentences will be removed. as for the Janissary massacre, i think its notability is obvious: since the sultan did not care about the lives of his own soldiers, imagine what did he think about the lives of the Greeks... Hectorian 20:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Em, to return to my original question, "since the sultan did not care about the lives of his own soldiers, imagine what did he think about the lives of the Greeks" is neither accurate nor directly relevant. The Janissaries at this point were a direct threat to the Sultan and his reformist ministers, having already thwarted Selim III's reforms. In Greece Mahmud II may be remembered as a tyrant, but it was him who also began the Ottoman Empire's long-overdue Western-style reforms. Now, one could say that the Sultan did "massacre" the Janissaries, but this has still nothing to do with the Greek Revolution. Regards, Cplakidas 06:00, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Janissaries 

message: A lot of content is repeated due to Laertes' edits... I see absolutely no reason to have two sections dealing with massacres in the Peloponnese, most of which have content which is copied verbatim.
AlexiusComnenus 23:28, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alexius, you seem to be trying to whitewash things, please either merge them to the section in the right way, or revert (and where the heck did we get this north to south order? it seems arbitrary, temporal/semi temporal order should be better). That massacre section was shortened without any consensus and here we have this. I am starting to loose my faith in you, I thought you were trying to do constructive edits to improve Wikipedia, but maybe you are not. Also, it is not a good practice to demand explanation for edits from some people and not demand explanations from others (including yourself) for about the same edits. As almost nobody discusses anything (or ends things with almost no discussions) I might really revert the main article (Greek war of independence) at least back to Politis' version. Anyway, I am going to sleep now. You might need to change that new section at least a bit there, try and introduce the meaning of the words earlier, and make it a subsection. The article is there for the Wikipedia readers, not for Greeks only, not for Albanians only, not for Turks only, not for scholars only. DenizTC 01:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Alexius, i'd like to know by what standards St. Clair, a historian, is not an authoratative source for this article, but the Belfast Times, The Scotsman, Christian Science Monitor etc are authoratative sources on the Greco-Turkish war? For the record, I really am sick of all these massacre articles, but you are clearly applying one rule for your own edits, and another for Laertes. --A.Garnet 09:43, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Repeated Content

message: Laertes, can you please explain to me why you think that any of the content I moved should not be in the Peloponnese section? All of those massacres in fact took place in places in the Peloponnese.
AlexiusComnenus 09:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: alexius im not doing any single editing in the section about the massacres committed against Greeks even though it was largely created by some unreliable sources..I expect you to do the same, just dont touch to this section, all right? --laertes d 18:38, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Please respect my proposition and just stop editing this section of this article as i am not making any single edit about the atrocities committed by Turks..All information are factually correct and properly cited and none of the source mentioned are pro-Turkish..--laertes d 18:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Peloponnesian Turks

message: The whole Turkish argument is based on them. Who are these people? What makes them credible? St Claire supposedly lived mostly in Iran and was born 30 years after the end of the revolution. He was no eye witness. Phillips does not even have an article on Wikipedia. Did they even exist? Seriously, people never cease to amaze me in their attempts to legitimize propaganda. Kalambaki2 (talk) 20:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Walter Alison Phillips. Moonraker2 (talk) 04:22, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

text: Constantinople Massacre of 1821 is largely based on William St Claire's book...DragonTiger23 (talk) 18:42, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  William St Claire & Alison Phillips? 

message: Wikipedia is quality encyclopedia (this was sarcastic, if you didn't get it). --84.234.60.154 (talk) 22:52, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "civiian greek"

message: How do greeks explain that to themselves: "For weeks afterwards starving Turkish children running helplessly about the ruins were being cut down and shot at by exultant Greeks"
This is definetely not the result of a sudden anger or so called turkish yoke of 400 years. It's a systematic extermination against a nation. I think we must seriously start to discuss "Turkish Genocide by Greeks in Morea".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.133.129.16 (talk) 10:35, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Tripolis Massacre

message: The article as it stood uses the tropes of Greek nationalist discourse and assumes all the Muslim inhabitants of Greece were alien invaders.  This is patently false.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.232.4.204 (talk) 22:50, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not all Muslims were turkish speakers 

message: You can not murder all the inhabitants of a city and still get involved in slave trade. Illogical arguments seem to be rooted in usual Greek bias over this article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Corlumeh (talk • contribs) 14:44, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slave or murder 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Perhaps the most accurate and reliable testimony of both Greek and Turkish massacres comes from General Makriyiannis (or Makrigiannis) who wrote his memoirs after serving during the Greek Revolution.
He is so impartial as to accuse the Greeks from Messinia for killing the local Turks, baptizing their women and expropriating their assets. The fact that this article contains whole paragraphs from various historians and not a single sentence or mention to him is of course a major handicap.
Beickus (talk) 23:10, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Bibliography

message: The article tells about "Massacres of Turks and Muslim Albanians" in Peloponnese. Certainly they were killed. But the fact is many (not all) of the Muslims from Peloponnese were Greeks, in fact --so is, Greek-speaking authoctones. Greek nationalists called Turk every Muslim, irrespective of objective language and ethnicity. We must have this in mind so to correctly reconstruct facts.Joan Rocaguinard (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 10:01, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, bring sources for that. Otherwise its your personal opinion that there was Grecophone Muslims and met similar fates to thier Turkish and Muslim Albanian coreligionists. Ethnic Turks and Muslim Albanians of the Peloponnese met those fates during the Greek uprising, hence why those communities did not exist thereafter.Resnjari (talk) 14:08, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Misha Glenny in The Balkans (1999) explicitly states that the majority of Muslims in the Pelopponese and the islands were "Greek" (well, he doesn't give numbers), meaning in terms of language and culture. He doesn't state they are Greek nationals or that they had a Greek national consciousness. --Calthinus (talk) 20:57, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Also an intra-Greek massacre

message: Smyrna and Aivali massacres are not mentioned. An area described as “Ionia” is the only word used in the article which might relate to Asia Minor but this is a very archaic term not in use today. Would be nice if some overall estimates of massacred were provided. 
And I would also mention the numbers enslaved as a reminder that except for some ransomed, the enslaved were good as lost to their compatriots and this number may have matched the number of dead. 2601:644:100:3430:4566:7D52:F822:FB81 (talk) 00:05, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Asia Minor 

message: No numbers are given in the section "Massacres of Greeks", while the section "Massacres of Turks" is described in full detail. Jestmoon(talk) 11:20, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers of victims