Talk:Värttinä

message: Look, since you are according to the babels a near-monolingual English speaker, I feel stupid arguing about this. But just for the record: I have never heard the claim that Värttinä sings in the Karelian language, nor (obviously) have I ever heard them sing in Karelian. I've heard material from 8 of their albums (out of a total of 10) and they are all in the Karelian dialect of Finnish. --Neofelis Nebulosa (моє обговорення) 22:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You should read the Karelian language entry, which is simply about the language of Karelia.  The title of the entry does not mean that "Karelian" is necessarily a separate, independent language from Finnish.  Also see the "dialects" section in the Finnish language entry.  There is no entry for "Karelian Finnish", so your edit causes the phrase to link to nothing.  The correct link is to Karelian language.  -- Takwish 23:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to miss the point now. I am aware that it 'links to nothing', that's because there isn't an article yet on the Karelian dialects of Finnish. It doesn't change the fact that Värttinä do not sing in the Karelian language. And as for the ever-present language-or-dialect dilemma: Majority of scholars seem to consider it a separate language and I agree with them. --Neofelis Nebulosa (моє обговорення) 23:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, if your point is that you, as a Finnish speaker, can affirm that there is a distinction between the Karelian language/dialect/variety as described in the Karelian language entry and the dialect of Finnish sung by Värttinä, then I am in no position to disagree.  However, there is an entry for East Finnish.  Perhaps this would make a more appropriate link for the time being. -- Takwish 23:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that was my point - there is a clear distinction between the two. You can of course change the link to East Finnish if you see it as a better option. I was kind of looking ahead with the linking, hoping that somebody would be urged to make the red link blue. --Neofelis Nebulosa (моє обговорення) 00:01, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  My wife thinks that Värttinä sings [Eastern Savonian Dialect] with some Karelian words (mostly on the older albums). [Burlakat] in contrast is a group singing in Karelian. 77.7.15.119 (talk) 06:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: To user Takwish

message: [I apologize up front for any violations of form or etiquette, as I'm rusty as to Wikipedia editing]  I am quite surprised to see someone has tagged this article with a notability issue. I understand that someone unfamiliar with this band & their genre of music might not quickly find proof of notability in what is currently in the entry (though it’s in there already in several places), but if anyone needs convincing, I’ll go over the criteria for musicians & ensembles satisfied by Värttinä (following the numbering of the page “Wikipedia: Notability (music)”, of which I believe Värttinä satisfies 11 out of 12. [I realize more references are needed for some of this info, but the main, immediate purpose is to eliminate the “Notability” tag & thus eliminate quickly any chance of the article’s unjustified deletion for that reason, so I'm opening this topic without having every single duck in a row yet]:
1. Has been subject of multiple, non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are reliable…”:
:a. Billboard magazine 6/5/93, Pg. 12, article focusing exclusively on Värttinä. *can't locate link at the moment, was on a different computer when I came across it*;
:b. Billboard magazine 10/5/93, Pg. 1 article about band signing to Nonesuch Records https://books.google.com/books?id=0QkEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&ots=_GN0x1ffLD&dq=varttina%20%22most%20successful%20finnish%22&pg=PA112#v=onepage&q=varttina%20%22most%20successful%20finnish%22&f=false>;
:c. Billboard magazine 2/18/95, Pg. 19, “Popular Uprisings: Finnish Fun” brief blurb about new album “Aitara” & US tour including dates in Durham, NC, New York City & Chicago. https://books.google.com/books?id=wgsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA19&ots=eQGGemrNMn&dq=billboard%20varttina%20finland%201993&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q=billboard%20varttina%20finland%201993&f=false;
:d. Billboard magazine 6/6/98, Pg. ??, band signs to Wicklow (BMG imprint label run by The Chieftans’ Paddy Maloney) *can't find link right now, was on a different computer*
:e. Billboard magazine 8/8/98, Pg. 11, “Wicklow Hopes World Will Warm to Värttinä” about release of band’s album Vihma https://books.google.com/books?id=8AkEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA79&ots=VclD9eOK1L&dq=varttina%20vihma%20wicklow&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q=varttina%20vihma%20wicklow&f=false
:f. Billboard magazine 8/5/00 https://books.google.com/books?id=mBAEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA77&ots=ZjyVHzRU1s&dq=varttina%20wicklow&pg=PA77#v=onepage&q=varttina%20wicklow&f=false
2. “Has had a single or album on any country’s national music chart.”:
While not confined to one country, in the digital/web age I presume a qualifying chart would be European World Music Radio Chart.  On that chart, their album "Seleniko" was ranked #1 for three months, album Kokko reached #2, & Vihma entered the chart at #1.  They have also been ranked at the top of college radio charts, such with 1998 album Vihma. *various sources, I'll gather them if need be*
3. “Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one country.”: Band’s 1991 album “Oi Dai” has been certified platinum in Finland, & others gold. https://worldmusiccentral.org/2018/05/31/artist-profiles-varttina/
4. “Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour…”
:a. LA Times 8/1/1996 “Originals from Start to Finish” about band’s tour of Canada & USA  http://articles.latimes.com/1996-08-01/entertainment/ca-30135_1_finnish-folk;
:b. Billboard 8/5/00 Pg. 77 “U.S. Plans For Finland’s Värttinä Still Up In Air” about how folding of BMG Classics may affect the band’s “ambitious world tour” in support of album “Ilmatar” including dates in Spain, Japan, France, Italy, Hungary, Austria, Netherlands, Belgium & Czech Republic https://books.google.com/books?id=mBAEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA77&ots=ZjyVHzRU1s&dq=varttina%20wicklow&pg=PA77#v=onepage&q=varttina%20wicklow&f=false
5. “Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels…”:
:a. Albums “Oi Dai” (1991), “Seleniko” (1993) & “Aitara” (1985) released on Xenophile, an imprint of Green Linnet;
:b.Album “Kokko”  (1996)released on Nonesuch
:c. Album “Vihma” (1998) released on Wicklow (BMG/Paddy Maloney) 
:d. Album “Miero” (2006) released on Real World Records (Peter Gabriel's label)
:e. Album “6.12.” issued by BMG Finland & internationally by BMG subsidiaries.
6. “Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians…”
:a. Longtime Värttinä members Susan Aho & Johanna Virtanen also perform as a duo called Kuunkuisaajat, issuing two CDs and they represented Finland in the 2010 Eurovision Song Contest, placing 11th in the first semi-final. Representing their country in the ESC by itself makes these two members of Värttinä arguably notable in their own right.
7. “Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style…”
:a. Billboard magazine, 10/5/93, Pg. 1 (!) “Finnish Act Extends Reach Via Nonesuch” by Antti Isokanga: “In the past five years, Värttinä has become the most successful Finnish folk act ever, with hit records at home and rave reviews internationally for both its albums and energetic live shows—including pioneering coverage in Billboard as early as February 1992. But with a new worldwide deal with Nonesuch Records and the release of a groundbreaking new album, ‘Kokko,’ the group intends to rid itself of the folk tag.:””
8. “Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno…”
:a.1992 Emma Award (Finland);
:b. 1995 “Best Contemporary World Music Album”, National Association of Independent Record Distributors;
:c. 2005 Suomi-Palkinto Finland award for exceptional artistic & career achievements;
:d. 2012 Womex Artist Award
:e. 2013 Emma Export award (Finland)
10. “Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show…”:
:a. Band’s song “Matalii ja Mustii” was featured prominently in two episodes of the children’s show “Arthur” (also known as “The Binky Song”), & was included on an official CD of music from the series. (specific source not handy, but it is an established fact)
11. “Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network…”
:a. WMCE (World Music Chart Europe) is based on survey of DJs in various countries, not based on sales but on DJ playlists & tastes, so it is reasonable to assume topping the WMCE chart involves heavy rotation.
12. “Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network.”:
:a. 20th anniversary concert in Helsinki on 2/28/2003 "was recorded on video by DeCo Media and broadcast New Years Day 2004 on YLE Teema, Finnish digital TV." http://varttina.com/about/evolution/ (from the band's own site, but an independent link undoubtedly could be found if necessary)
Värttina & some of its individual members would also qualify under multiple criteria for composers & lyricists, Recordings, Songs & Concert tours. So, as you can see, there is absolutely no question whatsoever as to notability, and this tag should be removed immediately to prevent any danger of deletion. I hope the references I have included, while not complete, nevertheless categorically establish the notability of this band. I’ll gather all the links & work to bring the article up to snuff quality-wise, but the notability question should be dispensed with immediately, I believe. Again, I apologize for any & all breaches of form & etiquette, I am very rusty on Wikipedia editing.
Jimmyb10 (talk) 09:50, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Notability