Talk:Big Boss (Metal Gear)

message: I've played Portable Ops all the way through and they don't give any reason why Big Boss starts Outer Heaven, the events of the game at most serves as where BB got the idea for it, but not the reasons itself (which is left open until the next game). I'd like to change that little part in the article under the Portable Ops section where it blindly says the game "explores his reason" to "shows his inspiration for". Just to be a little more accurate.
It does in a way; In the final cutscene in which Snake/ Big Boss appears, he tells Campbell something like he only feels truly alive when he's in the battlefield, much like Solid Snake states in MGS I believe. Considering what he saw Gene doing, by continuously manipulating soldiers such as Snake's mentor (The Boss), himself, as well as the other soldiers abandoned in the base, he probably felt partially obliged to do something. For extense, when Gene reveals to Big Boss the idea of creating a nation, he refers to it as "Army's Heaven" I believe. Big Boss does not consider such definition entirely accurate, considering the kind of person Gene truly is, and states that what soldiers are actually looking for is something "outside your heaven", which seems a direct reference to "Outer Heaven" and his idea of what a nation run for and by soldiers should be. Altough the amount of money Gene was able to accumulate over the years is not revelaed, it is possible that this was the money that allowed Big Boss to establish his future nation. 
It also may show why Big Boss sent Solid Snake 25 years later into Outer Heaven: Because of what Elisa told him, regarding his children. Altough he may have not been able to fully understand it's meaning at the time (after all, he couldn't be a father), he would later on understand what she meant by it. 
Sorry if I'm speculating a little bit(?), but after all, there are so many possibilities.--User:Bigger Boss
:What did Elisa tell him? Oddity- (talk) 09:27, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite, she told him: "Your son will bring the world to ruin (Liquid Snake), your son will save the world (Solid Snake)"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.194.178.157 (talk) 02:57, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Reason for Outer Heaven 

message: I uploaded the new render of the MPO version of Big Boss because it's a full body picture like the artwork from MGS and the MGS3 render. It looks better than the half shot anyhow.--Snake Liquid 01:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It might look better, but it's watermarked too and I don't think Wikipedia is partial to watermarked images. Eventually someone else's gonna remove it, so better find an unmarked one or used a screenshot. Jonny2x4 03:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MPO Render 

message: ·Name: Big Boss' real name is definetly unknown for the time being. Here it says Jack/John. Either of them can be the real one:
1-About Jack: At the beginning of the game Para-Medic asks Snake his real name already knowing that they call him Jack (And they call you Jack for short she says after he answered his name was John Doe). If Jack was actually his real name it would be silly to ask his name again,she actually knows that he is called Jack. That means Jack is definetly NOT his real name after all. Note also that if you choose the "I like MGS2" option before starting (when Snake weares the Raikov's Mask) there are a few calls with Major Tom which suggest that for some reason is better to hide Snake's true identity to the gunship crew. In fact everyone who knows him calls him Jack (the Major,The Boss)so he commonly uses Jack to be refered in some way but he doesn't want his real name to be known (maybe it's a really odd one xD,remember that he has japanesse ancestors). Also there is another reference to Raiden,who suggest that he dislikes his name (It's better that the one my parents gave mehe says to Snake in MGS2)
2-About John: He tells Para-Medic his name is John Doe trying to hide her his real name (we know that John Doe is bla bla bla a name used to hide someone's name or to identify someone without name), which is something that is clear for everyone. The next time he says his name is John is in the "Last Showdown" with Ocelot, at the same time he says John his mouth turns in a mock expression. He is clarely lying Ocelot, he knows that Ocelot will sure believe it because it's idolic seen of him, Ocelot is also younger and unnexperienced (that also suggests that Ocelot real name is in fact Adamska...). Also when Ocelot sees him off (So we meet again, John) Snake does that mocking smile again.
In almost every MGS Snake dislikes to reveal his name, because that links him to a person. And in fact in a mission could be something unnecesary A name means nothing in the battlefield, after a week, no one has a name both Solid and Big Boss say that. Solid Snake only reveales his name to Meryl and Otacon (can we doubt it that one? The cannonical final is the Meryl one...,just kidding). So,for the time being we really don't know Big Boss' real name so please change it to Unknown. And one more thing,where didi you get that Solidus named Raiden Jack after Big Boss? 
·Age: People is starting to think that he was born in the 1930's, and that's not for sure. Liquid said that he was in his latest 50 when they created his copies, and that is impossible too. He should be born late in the 20's,probably 1926 or 1927. It is said that he was in WWII as a teenage by his own will,but with 11-12 years...If he was born in the dates I said he could be in his first battle at at least 17-18,just like his sons. Also in 1964 (Snake Eater) he resembles much to Solid Snake in MGS2,who is 37 (and looks older by advanced cell degeneration). So he must be in a similar age,maybe a little older...born in 1925? Why not? There's no need that The Boss would be much older for teaching him, she has a lot more of experience and she also has been trained by the Philosophers' best. She could be born perfectly in 1920-1921 and Snake in 1925-1927.He would be 37-39 at Snake Eater,43-45 at MPO,45-47 being cloned,68-70 at Outer Heaven and 72-74 at Zanzibar Land.
·Nationality and etnicity: It is clear that he has japanese ancestors (Raven told it to Solid Snake,he also knew and their factions denote some etnic mix),but it's unclear how. There is some info in the net that says he was born in Hawaii, the third generation of a japanese-american family. It is also said that in the Pearl Harbour Incident he lost the american branch of his family while the japanese was imprisioned (that sounds a little fantastic...). Do any of you know something about this?
Black Dollar 19 November 2006
:: I'd say Big Boss was born in the 30s, probably 1930-33 (making him 31-34 in Snake Eater, though he does look much older in the artwork than he does in game). Given the fact we know that The Boss encountered Big Boss after he did the stuff at Bikini Atoll, and we know that they were together for "ten years" and that they had been separated for around five years in 1964, my guess is that he was involved in "Operation Sandstone" on Bikini Atoll in 1948, when he was 15-18. BB strikes me as the sort of person who would have lied about his age to join the army earlier. He then becomes a disciple of the Boss (who is ten to thirteen years older than him) in 1949 and sees his first proper war in the Korean War of 1950, aged 17-20.
:: I don't think he's any closer in age to The Boss for the following reasons: 
#He refers to her being like a mother. 
#She refers to him as a child.
(80.1.72.245 16:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  But as I said she was a lot more experienced, the age factor has almost no relevance. Besides, think in what I said about him being very similar to Solid Snake in MGS2 (37 and looking older) he looks older than 30-31. You are probably right when you soy that he lied about his age, but being a little older than 12-15.Think about it.
I see that the name factor do not causes discussion so I'm going to change it.
Black Dollar 14 December 2006
Actually I'm sure that Big Boss' real name is Jack because even in Metal Gear Solid: PO, Gene calls him Jack at the end o the game
24.81.59.101 02:27, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I take into account only official explanations from Kojima himself or other official documents/commentaries. You're personal interpretations about some dialogues between Paramedic and Snake do not matter, since Kojima himself said Big Boss's real name was either Jack or John. In this dialogue, Snake is just joking about his real name. Folken de Fanel 12:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some things to take in mind about Big Boss 

message: anyone else think the eyepatch is a refrence to nick furry agent of shield?
:Sigh... It's Nick Fury. - Malomeat 00:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Screw this. I always thought King of Furries was better. - The epic and melodramatic Malomeat 09:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nick Furry 

message: I just deleted the speculation bit(?) regarding Big Boss' role in the Patriots organization and the Outer Heaven bit, since it's nothing more than that. So far, it has already been discussed in the previous games why he established it, and therefore it makes no sense to say that he did it to destroy the Patriots, altough it may be possible indeed. Therefore, unless there is a confirmation by Kojima or something of that sort, it makes little sense to add something like that to the article.
Also, whoever keeps adding stuff such as the date in which the "Les Enfants Terrible" Project started, the time in which Big Boss' cells were extracted or the mysterious third party, please stop. There's no way to proove the Project began in 1971, since the official MGS chronology establishes it in 1972 (the birth of the three Snakes anyway). There's no way either to know if Big Boss fell in a coma after destroying Metal Gear, since there's not enough info to support that (altough it's possible). The same applies to the mysterious third party; Let's stick to the facts please, and NOT speculation. Thanks for the attention. --User:Bigger Boss - 29 December 2006
: IIRC, the ending to MGS3 lists the Les Enfants Terribles project as starting the same year as the Snakes are born during the ending timeline. Hyperspacey 04:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Patriots, Outer Heaven & More

message: It is not mentioned on here, but after you fight the fury, if you call para-medic after awhile she will tell snake she was going over his medical records, and she found that he had been exposed to Atomic bomb radiation. snake then goes on to say that a bunch of his friends got thyroid cancer and lukemia and some have died already. he says he hasent gotten any symptoms of radiation poisening but comments on how one day it will come, leaving para-medic speechless.
just thought i should put that out there, maybe it should be added on here somewhere as its a pretty important part of his history. Again where i got the codec convo was after you fight the fury and your in that corridor where the rocks just fell, call up para-medic afew times and she will mention it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Agracuta (talk • contribs) 04:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Big Boss exposed to nuclear radiation. 

message: Can someone delete part about john?Kojima confirms that Big boss real name is jack in the pre-order disc called Metal Gear Saga.
:Its both actually, Jack is a nickname for John. Jonny2x4 20:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually John. If you watch the final showdown with Ocelot in the plane in MGS3, Big Boss says that his name is John, just after Ocelot says his name is Adamska. MightyJordan 02:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Jonny2x4 may be right. Even though Snake tells Ocelot that his name is John, The Boss calls Snake Jack earlier in the game.(Myscrnnm (talk) 21:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Jack is a commonly-known nickname for the name John, even though they are also used completely independently of each other quite often.  Please try to verify your info before making a claim like that. DestradoZero 09:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Real name

message: Why does Big Boss come across as a bad guy in this article? 
He is not a bad guy, his actions were plausible if not heroic. 
This article needs something that put my point across. 
Uwaisis 15:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How can an article be "biased" towards a fictional character (read: non-existing person). The neutrality is only relative to the way he is depicted in each game. He was strictly an antagonist in the first two MSX2 games. His tragic hero portrayal in MGS3 and MPO is rather recent and more popular by comparison. Its not like Big Boss was a real individual whose actions can be judged depending on one's POV. :p Jonny2x4 (talk) 20:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, even the MSX2 games (more specifically, the official translation of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake) had given some hints about Big Boss's true nature (eg, his MGS3/PO nature). For example, there was Kyle Schneider telling Snake about the fact that he saved as many of the war orphans/refugees in Outer Heaven, even those who were originally his enemies [eg, Kyle Schneider's resistance], as he could from the NATO bombings. He even hinted that Big Boss would have wanted Snake to save Doctor Marv when he told Snake where he was, so really, even the MSX2 games have hinted at the fact that Big Boss wasn't completely evil.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.191.26 (talk) 12:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: Big Boss was supposedly toasted by Solid Snaked, and still his FULL body was shown in MGS artwork in a freezing chamber, complete, with no visible scars. Maybe his skin was flameproof and only his other organs were damaged? weird...--Kim Kusanagi 05:30, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i think this is just because Kojima had no idea a few old super nintendo games would grow into what it is today. He carried on the story. its a video game, they can do whatever they like! Smanic88 (talk) 01:02, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Metal Gear 1 and 2 were MSX2 games. Jonny2x4 (talk) 06:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There were also NES releases of them.--97.90.154.13 (talk) 08:06, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, no.  They released a completely ruined port of MG1 on the NES, and MG2:SS never made it to North America. Oddity- (talk) 22:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is another inconsistency... 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Big boss's.JPG

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Big boss's.JPG

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Mpo e32k6 04.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:MG1 Boss.jpg

message: This article needs a bit on Portable ops plus. It has a section on portable ops. Perhaps a small line or two in that section about the sequel game?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smanic88 (talk • contribs) 01:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really. Portable Ops Plus is just an expansion that doesn't add anything to the canon, much like Integral, Substance and Subsistence. Jonny2x4 (talk) 05:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  portable ops PLUS 

message: Requesting lock on this page, and possibly the entire Metal Gear category, until MGS4s release date, due to rather frequent and persistent vandilation with unverifiable information that could also be potential spoilers for the game's narrative.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by EBwiz (talk • contribs) 00:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requesting Lock 

message: How come the info on Big Boss in MGS4 was removed?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Najhoant (talk • contribs) 07:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  MGS4 story 

message: Metal Gear Solid 4 is a huge inconsistency from what has happened in "Metal Gear 2" Solid Snake "kills" big boss with a make shift flamethrower, but in MGS4 there is NO scaring NO visible snatcher organs just all flesh and blood. Either this is a large part huge inconsistencies with big boss or MGS4 big boss wasn't the real Big Boss and the real deal has been dead for nearly 20 years or the one who was burned on the Volta was the real deal. 67.180.225.161 (talk) 07:46, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: MGS4 wasnt shit and Big Boss Skin and limbs where replaced with Liquids and Solidus ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ (talk) 22:54, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistency  

message: I think Big Boss (or rather, Naked Snake) had stated that he fought in Vietnam sometime during the events of Portable Ops, as he himself stated that he recognized Frank Jaegar (Aka, Null, aka, Gray Fox) from when he was fighting in the Vietnam War and transferred Frank to a Orphanage to help him recover from the experience. Therefore, I think, because of that, he should be listed under the Fictional Vietnam War Veterans category.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.251.111 (talk) 02:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, technically, he only said they saw each other in Mozambique. He didn't necessarily say they first met in Mozambique. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 01:29, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ok... about the Categories. 

message: The "Appearances" section is waaay too long! We need to break it up into a few smaller sections, maybe by game or by chronological order?Morrasl (talk) 05:44, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Appearances" needs to be split into smaller sections! 

message: Why is Punished Snake not a valid alias? If I remember correctly that is how they refer to Big Boss in the 2013 trailer. As far as I understand, they gave him a new code name "Venom Snake" as of the 2014 E3 trailer but I haven't seen any sources saying that he is no longer called Punished Snake. If someone could just go ahead and give a source confirming his code name is no longer Punished Snake instead of just removing it, that'd be great. Linuxrox (talk) 01:42, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Punished Snake? 

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message: The infobox image for this page is an edit made by a fan, found here 
Shouldn't it be replaced? The image is not official promotional material from the character's publisher, and since it was edited, it is not a accurate depiction of Big Boss, as he did not have a Hidden Blade. 2001:4450:830F:3B00:E153:FB6A:34D:5F75 (talk) 08:15, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure. Being a non promotional material doesn't mean it should not be used but the hidden blade is wrong and should be replaced with an accurate depiction of Big Boss. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 10:45, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with the above. It shouldn't be there. Foxhound03 (talk) 02:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

text: I've added a screenshot of his face from Metal Gear Solid 4 to the infobox for now, since I can't find any good PNGs of the character. Should note that its the same image used over at the Metal Gear Wikia, but that shouldn't be an issue. λ NegativeMP1 16:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is much better, thank you. I was curious if you knew what ever happened to the old CGI model that was on this article? If memory serves right it was from Ground Zeroes. Thanks again! Foxhound03 (talk) 01:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're proposing it be added somewhere in the article, then yeah, we could request a WP:REFUND. As for making it the infobox image, that's probably not a good idea considering how many people get Big Boss and Solid Snake confused, readers and critics (and anyone outside of the fandom) alike. λ NegativeMP1 17:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox image is a fan edit