Talk:Edessa

message: I think this page would greatly benefit from making it clearer when the city was controlled by various empires. I was trying to figure out who controlled it in 415 and this page really doesn't tell you. The Battle of Edessa page is confusing cause it says the Sasanians won, and I would presume they then took the city but I guess not? The Osroene (Roman province) article makes me think Rome probably controlled Edessa in 415, but I'm still not totally sure. Having the history section's subsections be more detailed and maybe having dedicated subsections for Roman rule, etc. rather than broad categories like "Late Antiquity" would be good. Nog642 (talk) 00:22, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline of who controlled the city when 

message: According to Britannica, anyway; but there's no mention of it in the article?  The article states that the Christian faith was embraced by Abgar IX, which would match the c 200 date.  That would predate Armenia. --Psm 00:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Added some references to this effect, although the edit has nothing to do with Armenia. Syriac church was known to be first, and Osroene was independent kingdom which adopted Christianity about 200+ years after the temporary conquest by Tigranes the Great, who ruled Before Christian Era. Under Abgar IX, Osroene was in between Parthia and Roman Empire, and fell under the latter later. Atabek (talk) 17:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Armenia adopted Christianity in 301A.D. The topic of this article is Edessa, so assume good faith and stop disputing referencing with original research. There are already several references brought which confirm the fact that Christianity was adopted in Edessa/Osroene by early 200s. Thanks. Atabek (talk) 04:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Quibble. Deleting fully-referenced text simply because it doesn't suit one's indoctrination is vandalism. An edit summary of "npov" [sic] does not justify vandalism and is misleading in this case. Find something useful to do. --Wetman (talk) 23:25, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

text: The three deleted references were: Cheetham, Samuel (1905). A History of the Christian Church During the First Six Centuries. Macmillan and Co, 58;  Lockyer, Herbert (1988). All the Apostles of the Bible. Zondervan, 260., and Adshead, Samuel Adrian Miles (2000). China in World History. Macmillan, 27. I don't know who this "Atabek" hobbyist is. On the whole, any rixe over which was "first", on such slender historical evidence either way, will be unenlightening. --Wetman (talk) 03:12, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Quibble. Deleting fully-referenced text simply because it doesn't suit one's indoctrination is vandalism. An edit summary of "npov" [sic] does not justify vandalism and is misleading in this case. Find something useful to do. Wetman 23:25, 17 March 2008
The above is an example of WP:AGF violation, breach of civiliy rules, and a personal attack. Assuming that another editor is "indoctrinated" (!) and "vandalizes" based on such "indoctrination" shows serious lack of knowledge of Wikipedia rules on your part. Please familirize yourself with those policies, as well as with the sources provided by Marshall.--TigranTheGreat (talk) 10:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

text: It would not hurt for MarshallBagramyan and TigranTheGreat to assume some good faith before calling my edits "ill-intentioned" or "intentionally deceiving". Apart from violating AGF, those kind of comments may be deemed as simply incivil as well. As far as sources go, if all, this article is Edessa, Mesopotamia, I am not sure why it has to become a place for pushing Armenian POV by TigranTheGreat and MarshallBagramyan, while the page in its title and essence has very little to do with Armenia or its history. Moreover, if some sources (mostly Armenian or those referencing them) claim that Tiridates III was converted to Christian religion by Gregory the Illuminator in 301 A.D. NOTE: according to legend, I am not sure why Abgar VIII (the Great) factual conversion by 201 A.D. (as confirmed by several presented sources AND HIS VISIT TO ROME!) should be mixed with legend about conversion of Abgar V by St. Addai and deemed as invalid. Atabek (talk) 01:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: VartanM, you cannot accuse me of OR, as I did provide references for every single line that I added in both articles. So assume good faith, and remind yourself that you ended up on this talk page because of a) Wikistalking; b) Edit warring and POV pushing trying to prove that Armenians were first Christian nation (as if it matters so much). Again, the claim that you believe in is also based on a legend of Gregory Illuminator curing king Tiridates III, which is similar to the case of Addai and Abgar, albeit was a century later. So I am not sure which legend is true or false, that's up to scholars (preferably neutral ones as in case of Osroene) to decide, but the fact is that Osroene accepted Christianity by the end of 2nd century A.D., the fact that you cannot deny so far. Atabek (talk) 18:40, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

text: There is no reference to refute that either or to affirm that Armenian story of acceptance is more reliable, as it's also based on legend. So instead of plain removal of scholarly sources, a more constructive approach would be adding Armenian references, saying that alternative view also does exist. There is nothing wrong with that, instead of trying to erase references, and thus history. Atabek (talk) 06:05, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sanliurfa first city-state to adopt Christianity as state religion ca AD 200? 

message: Could an administrator remove the (redundant) parent categories "Anatolia" and "Ancient Near East"?
Thanks Sumerophile (talk) 18:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: , also reduced to semi-protection. Happy‑melon 17:48, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category updates 

message: The article, as it stands today, in the opening paragraph in "History", says "lasted nearly four centuries (c.132 BC to 214).  Either four centuries is wrong, or one or more of the dates is wrong.  If anyone knows, please help.
Osbaldistone (talk) 14:36, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's 315 years...maybe not "nearly" 4 centuries but "over three centuries" would work. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:54, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something doesn't match with this time frame - help? 

message: In my opinion, a likely candidate for Abraham's birthplace is Urfa, AKA Edessa, which is regarded in Islamic tradition as the birthplace of Abraham. Such a tradition is not a recent invention, but stemmed from ancient Syriac Christian tradition linked to the city, which in turn must have come from the very ancient Jewish community there (one of the ancient Greek names for the town listed in the Greek language page for 'Edessa' was Αντιόχεια της Ιουδαίας , i.e. Antioch of the Jews.) In fact, one of the earliest known Hellenistic Greek names of the city, was Ορρα (transliterated ORRA, Romanized form Orrha). A link to Abraham cannot be made with certainty, but it is the certainty with which sholars identify Sumerian "Ur" with Biblical Ur of the Chaldees (Ur Kasdim) when not a shred of evidence exists to justify such a link that ought to raise eyebrows.
The obsessive and repeated attempts by archeologists, historians, and scholars to force an identification of Ur Kasdim with Sumerian "Ur" have proven groundless, and none of the aforementioned seems to have the courage to simply admit that the link is tenuous at best. The following are worth bearing in mind:
1. Sumerian "Ur" is a pure misnomer. Such a name is not attested. In Sumerian cuneiform, it is called "Urima", and in Accadian "Uriwa", and the root of both names URI, is demonstrably of different form and roots from the Hebraic name Ur. 
2. The "Chaldees" is not the name of a country in the Bible, but of a tribe, Chaldeans. They are depicted in later books of the Bible as conquerors from outside lower Mesopotamia who conquered the area and took control of Babylon. However, there is no mention of the Chaldeans as a tribe anywhere in the Pentateuch, only the refererence to "Ur Kasdim". The name Kasdim may be ethymologically related to a relative of Abraham, Kesed, who, together with Aram, are descendants of Abraham's brother Nahor based in the vicinity of Harran, in Upper Mesopotamia. This region, known in Genesis as Aram Naharaim, is very clearly and repeatedly referred to as the place of origin of the Hebrew patriarchs, NOT Sumeria (which is referred to in Genesis as the 'Plain of Shinar'). There is no mention of Chaldeans active in this region until the late Israelite monarchy, more than 1000 years later, and their is no precedent in the Pentateuch for an anachronism on a scale of this magnitude. 
After the Exodus from Egypt, in Deuteronomy 26, the Hebrews are asked to recite a passage to recall their patrimony: "A wandering Aramean was my ancestor; he went down into Egypt and lived there as an alien, few in number, and there he became a great nation, mighty and populous." It is clear that the association of their patrimony was with rustic pastoralism, and not with the settled urbanised city life characteristic of the bustling urban metropolis and port city of Sumerian "Ur". The lifestyles of the early patriarchs simply cannot be tallied with those of the cityfolk of the Sumerian metropoli. It is evident from the Biblical narratives that the patrimony of the Hebrews is placed in the vicinity of Harran.
During the Middle Ages, this region (Aram Naharaim, Upper Mesopotamia) was known as the "al-Jazirah" and was one of the preferred areas of settlement of the semi-nomadic Turcomans. The lifestyle they were accustomed to was comprised of seminomadic pastoralism, herding, and grazing, something which the marshes and canals of Babylonia were ill-suited to. Such a lifestyle recalls the early pre-Israelite Hebrews in particular and the early Aramaean tribes in general, and the area around Edessa and Harran, not Sumer, would have been highly condusive to such a lifestyle in the age of the Patriarchs.
--Jacob Davidson  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.88.182.201 (talk) 21:51, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Association of Edessa/Urfa with Abraham's birthplace 

message: Under Names, the page has: The earliest name of the city was Adma (Aramaic: אדמא‎ also written Adme, Admi, Admum) which first appeared in Assyrian cuneiform sources in the 7th century BC. The provided source (Harrak 1992, p. 212) does not mention a specific date, however, but reports the earliest attestation of Adma as dating back to the Old Assyrian period, which was in the early second millennium BCE. Therefore, "7th century" would be way too recent; perhaps a typo for "17th"? Drabkikker (talk) 10:24, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adma 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article currently states that the Arabic and Aramaic names of the city, al-Ruha' and Urfa, respectively, were derived from the Iranian name Khosrow. This is probably a mistake; Khosrow  is actually the root of the name Osroene, in which Edessa was located. The Arabic name al-Ruha' is a corruption of the Sasanian name of the city: Urhāy in Middle Persian. --Z 15:00, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to introduce changes with WP:RS. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:52, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology of the Arabic and Aramaic names