Talk:Jacob D. Robida

message: This article is a mess. What is going on with those footnotes? Needs to be cleaned up something fierce. --jenlight 20:56, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: "Jacob D. Robida (June 13, 1987 – February 5, 2006) was a Massachusetts teenager. Prior to his death he was a suspect in an alleged hate crime, attempted murder, and murder who was wanted in New Bedford, Massachusetts. He died in a Missouri hospital at 03:38 CST on February 5, 2006, following a shootout with local authorities on February 4, 2006, in Norfork, Arkansas."
Since he committed murder right before the fatal gun battle with police, and had not been formally charged with the murder at the time of his death.., can we maybe tighten the lead a bit.
"Jacob D. Robida (June 13, 1987 – February 5, 2006) was a Massachusetts teenager, who prior to his death, was a suspect in an assault on a New Bedford, Massachusetts bar, alleged to be a hate crime. He died in a Missouri hospital at 03:38 CST on February 5, 2006, following a shootout with local authorities in which he murdered the woman in the car he was driving, on February 4, 2006, in Norfork, Arkansas."
Probably could be done better.. you don't need alleged (for the murder) in there, you have video of the gun battle, and due to Robida's death, will never be brought to trial.
SirFozzie 22:33, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good research, and shame on them.  I also noticed that the Baxter Bulletin and other local news in Arkansas has many articles (at least four in the Baxter B) about unprovoked murder of officer Jim Sell, each of which describes Robida's attacks in New Bedford but makes no reference to the hate crime aspect or the fact that it was a gay bar (aside from a single word in an Associated Press article).  But I'm not sure how this relates to the Jacob Robida article at hand. NTK 22:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead Summary Paragraph change 

message: May I suggest we start a separate section detailing the victims? NiftyDude 23:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Detail Victims 

message: Your search - site:www.agapepress.org Robida - did not match any documents
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.agapepress.org+Robida
Your search - site: www.ouramericanvalues.org robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.ouramericanvalues.org+robida
Your search - site:www.cbn.com Robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.cbn.com+Robida
Your search - site:www.cc.org Robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.cc.org+Robida
Your search - site:www.cwfa.org robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.cwfa.org+robida
Your search - site:www.familyresearchinst.org robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.familyresearchinst.org+robida
Your search - site:www.publicadvocateusa.org robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.publicadvocateusa.org+robida
Your search - site: www.renewamerica.us Robida - did not match any documents
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.renewamerica.us+Robida
Your search - site:www.traditionalvalues.org robida - did not match any documents. 
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.traditionalvalues.org+robida
And from the groups right here in Massachusetts...
'''
Your search - site:www.massnews.com Robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.massnews.com+Robida
Your search - site:www.article8.org Robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site%3Awww.article8.org+Robida
Your search - Robida blogurl:massresistance.blogspot.com - did not match any documents.
http://search.blogger.com/?as_q=Robida&ie=UTF-8&ui=blg&bl_url=massresistance.blogspot.com&x=85&y=8
Your search - site:www.mafamily.org robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.mafamily.org+robida
Your search - site:www.rcab.org robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.rcab.org+robida
Your search - site: www.voteonmarriage.org robida - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?en&q=site:www.voteonmarriage.org+robida
The silence is deafening.
NiftyDude 23:17, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good research, and shame on them.  I also noticed that the Baxter Bulletin and other local news in Arkansas has many articles (at least four in the Baxter B) about unprovoked murder of officer Jim Sell, each of which describes Robida's attacks in New Bedford but makes no reference to the hate crime aspect or the fact that it was a gay bar (aside from a single word in an Associated Press article).  But I'm not sure how this relates to the Jacob Robida article at hand. NTK 22:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments from the Christian-Right and "Pro-Family" groups 

message: “It contains some racist speech and some telling information on the psychotic murderer.” says media
Excuse me, i am a juggalette from Michigan and ive been a juggalette since i was 4 years old. First off id like to inform you that the juggalo community is known to be distinctly against racism and bogotry. Yes their music may contain homocidal lyrics but its not what they’re doing that is the message, its who they’re doing it to. From what ive learned from psychopathic records, they go around clensing the world of bigots, preachers who molest little boys, people who beat their children and wives, people filled with greed, mostly extremely wealthy people who do nothing for the poor communities but shun them, these are lyrics from a popular song Assassins off of the Amazing Jeckel Brothers cd by Insane Clown Posse:
Hypocrite, he was a bigot so I cut off his head
Poured on the holy water, “Bless the dead” is what I said
And heard the demon screaming as his body bled
Now does that sound like a band who condones bigotry? Pshychopathis records shouldnt be blamed for some neo-nazi who goes around killing people, many people have killed people with hatchets, just because the juggalo community has a hatchet as part of their appearance does NOT mean this is the reason this kid, whos obviosly mentally unstable, picked it as a weapon of choice.
The juggalos are all about many diffrent people coming together, a good world where everyone gets along and the ones who are bad they kill them (not literally of course) and send them to hells pit, and if they live good and fallow the carnival (god) then they will go to shangri la (heaven).
the whole message was revealed in the wraith: shangri la in the song thy unveiling when the insane clown posse stated:
Now we have been told this carnival shit has touched many lives.
People have fuckin` sworn to us they too can feel it inside.
What is it that draws you in, this magic that compels you?
We`ve been waiting six fuckin` joker cards to finally tell you.
This messengers and hints were there, all though most never picked up on them.
We snuck em` in subliminally with that wicked shit around them.
We mentioned more and more of this on every Joker’s Card.
The bottom line always the same, you aint have to look hard.
We wickedly kick it, inflict it, you get it, get with it and dig we don’t preach it flat, cause some ninjas don`t wanna get with ya, they quick to forget ya without the hatchet and gat out.
So we rose the hatchet, do or die, now Juggalos standing tall, after all 6 have risen the end of time will consume us all. It aint got nothing to do with us, It aint Psychopathic Records!
All we`re doing is pointing this shit out to you, we in this together! Who`s behind the Dark Carnival, thet Gatherings and the hatchet? Who`s beind Dark Lotus, the circus and everybody at it?
Who inveted Juggalos and Juggalette and fuckin Faygo showers? What about that feeling you get when bumping our shit, who`s behind these Juggalo powers?
This ain`t no fuckin fan club, It aint about making a buck. Don`t buy our fuckin action figures bitch, i dont give a fuck. It aint About Violent J or Shaggy, the Butterfly or seventeen.
When we speak of Shangri-La, what you think we mean? Truth is we follow GOD, we`ve always been behind him, The Dark Carnival is GOD and may all Juggalos find him! 
Juggalos are about acceptance, they accept everyone rich, poor, black, white, everyone, and we call them “Family” and we make sure they are never left to felt out of place, or alone, we make them have somewhere to fit in and be among people who’ll love em like a brother or siter and have they’re back in every situation, friends come and go but Family is for life and i just hope you people think twice before accusing juggalos and juggalettes for peoples actions. especially ones that dont even fit the message that psychopathis records sends out. 
Much Clown Love - Downwith2dope
:::Good grief....  Exploding Boy 17:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.. DownWith2Dope.. we're not saying we see him as a Juggalo.. we're saying in the article that HE considered HIMSELF a juggalo. SirFozzie 18:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good grief indeed.  Parents who let 4-year-olds listen to music like ICP are probably a symptom of a larger problem here.  NTK 22:39, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see why not.  Piepants 21:56, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  i think the accsations of the media are absurd  

message: NiftyDude, Posting outside articles accusing anti-GLBT groups in Massachusetts of causing this attack, is non-NPOV. Post articles giving a clear and active link between the two (if Robida was a member of groups, if someone has spoken out about Robida, (besides TripleH1976, of course). Linking press-releases with the usual he said/she said is non-NPOV. Focus on the facts.
I get your point, but I think it's still valid to put that stuff in.
Why not just ballance it with statements from the Religious-right in which they make a counter-argument?
Oh, wait...  "Your search... did not match any documents."
Also, it looks like members of Robida's family may have signed the pettition against gay marriage. Go to www.KnowThyNeighbor.og and look for people in New Bedford with the last names of "Oliver" or "Robida."  As soon as I have anything concrete, I'll put that in.
That might merit a passing mention, "Robida's parents signed a petition asking that the legalization of  Gay Marriage be repealed", but be careful.. it might be vandals/sympathizers/etcetera. Try to find a timestamp that indicates when they signed it.. Anything more then that would require notability (IE, did the Robida's actively campaign for the repealment? Were they the authors of any pamphlets/etcetera). Sorry I didn't sign it before.. SirFozzie 20:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Be careful of defamation and original research here.  Just because someone lives in New Bedford and is named Robida doesn't mean they have anything to do with Jacob Robida and his immediate family.  They could easily be distant relatives or unrelated. NTK 14:34, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

text: There was also widespread fraud in collecting those signatures. Many people were duped into signing the petition. Rhobite 15:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Posting Left-Wing/Right-Wing accusations 

message: Yes, that's why I didn't try to post that in the article. Am I correct in assuming we have a little more leeway in the chat area where we can discuss research leads?
When I talk about the petition, I am careful to use phrases like, "...whose name appears on the pettition," as opposed to, "...who signed the pettition."  I also said it LOOKS LIKE they MAY HAVE signed. There are others looking into chasing down that lead right now. If something concrete comes up, I suppose it would be worth mentioning. But for now, it's speculation. Unless someone here wants to research this further, I'm going to wait and see what I hear back. NiftyDude 21:37, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, what you were saying was basically speculation, and that's fine here.  We should not put it into the article unless it is either reported in other sources or we have definitive information that it is true.  It is good that you unearthed the possibility, but clearly there would need to be more than just a last name on a petition for it to be mentioned in the article.  It just wasn't clear to me from your earlier comment if you were going to add it to the article. NTK 00:31, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Looks like... may have... name appears on... 

message: This just appeared on the front page of boston.com... (The Boston Globe's website.. NEWS UPDATE ON THE ROBIDA CASE: Jacob D. Robida was not shot by police, but rather, shot himself in the head as police closed in on him in Arkansas on Saturday, the Boston Globe is reporting this afternoon. Robida, 18, attacked patrons at a gay bar in New Bedford last week before being stopped by police in Arkansas. Earlier reports said police shot Robida after he shot a former girlfriend who was in the car with him.  --Developing
I've updated the article with this information.. SirFozzie 22:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Info About cause of Robida's Death 

message: I was wondering, can we remove the www.queery.com link from the main article, because if you click on the Jacob with a gun image, you'll get the link right there as well???  I see no reason to have it around twice.  TripleH1976 08:38, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm.. that might be a good edit.. I see that the MySpace Google Cache is linked twice in the article as well.. anyone else have a problem with that? SirFozzie 21:17, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External links and References

message: A strong opening sentence and paragraph is key to establishing not only the tone of the article but giving information to "hook" people into reading more - it should pack as much information as it can without being overloaded and yet stay open-ended, leading into the rest of the article.
What I see now is: Jacob D. Robida (13 June 1987 – 5 February 2006) was a Massachusetts teenager who shot and killed a police officer and a female companion before ending his own life.
How about: Jacob D. Robida (13 June 1987 – 5 February 2006) was a Massachusetts teenager who attacked patrons at a gay bar in New Bedford, Massachusetts and then ultimately fled to Norfork, Arkansas, where he was mortally wounded.
That gets the reader to ask many questions.  Where are these places, why did he attack anyone, what is a gay bar (some naive people still might not know), and how did he die?
This makes most people want to read the rest of the article to answer their questions.
Give me some feedback and I'll put it in or alter it as per suggestions.
Kether83 05:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about the following, instead?
How about: Jacob D. Robida (13 June 1987 – 5 February 2006) was a Massachusetts teenager who attacked patrons at a gay bar in New Bedford, Massachusetts and then ultimately fled to Norfork, Arkansas, where he killed his female companion and then mortally wounded himself in a gunfight with police. SirFozzie 21:16, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: First Sentence

message: I'm sort of new to the wikipedia, but why does this section belong in an encyclopedia article about a person?  I could see it in an article about the crime he committed, or as its own page, but I don't understand why it belongs on this page.--Josilot 16:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Response from Insane Clown Posse and Psychopathic Records

message: I removed this sentence: 
*On his MySpace page, Robida identified himself as an atheist.  
MySpace profiles have a box where you can select your religion from a drop-down list. The fact that Robida selected "atheist" from a drop-down list doesn't mean that he was particularly passionate about atheism or that it was in any way relevant to his crimes. I visited the link, and he doesn't write about atheism anywhere else, so why select that one piece of information, and without any context that would make it relevant to the subject at hand? Should we also point out that he identified himself as a Gemini and as being of average body type (in the same infobox)? --Grace 06:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  It's not particularly notable, plus "atheism" in general is poorly defined and many who are deistic, agnostic, etc. often are given no options in such questions, lumping them in with atheists.  He probably just picked it because he thought it was cool.  Kasreyn 07:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this appropriate? 

message: I'm not going to add a tag, because this is relatively minor. Also, I'm assuming some people have watchlisted this page, given TripleH1976, and will hopefully have some info. That said, the quote from ICP's manager contradicts the quote by the manager on the Jack Thompson page. Anyone have the actual quote?
I guess if I don't get a response to this, I'll add a "contradict-other" tag...  --Natalie 03:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I linked to the wrong page. The link is Jack Thompson: Jacob Robida murders. Sorry bout that. --Natalie 03:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand.  Where's the contradiction?  Some parts were excised to shorten the quote on the other page.  These removals are correctly indicated using ellipses ("...") and other methods.  There is no contradiction in the quotes that I can see.  Kasreyn 05:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  contradiction 

message: this damn psycho isn't a juggalo because ICP shows love to all people and hates racism  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.237.101.114 (talk) 07:15, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  not a real juggalo 

message: I have proposed that the page Jack Thompson and the Jacob Robida murders be merged into this one. That article is entirely about reactions to the Robida murders; I doubt it properly fulfils the notability guidelines in its own right. I think it would be best if the reactions by Jack Thompson and Scott Lang were merged into the 'in response' section of this article, as the response by Insane Clown Posse already has been. Terraxos (talk) 05:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there were no objections in over a year, so I carried out the merge. For the rest of the content that didn't make it into this article, see the history of Jack Thompson and the Jacob Robida murders. Robofish (talk) 15:25, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

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