Talk:Murphy bed

message: There's a photo of William Lawrence Murphy here: https://www.wallbedsbywilding.com/blog/2016/09/16/murphy-bed-love-story/  I'm too busy at the moment to add it.
--Pronsias (talk) 08:44, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo

message: --Pmchanjr 18:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Murphy bed

message: An animated gif of the thing would be useful, or a photo of a partially deployed one. Maybe, if some of the ancient silent films have fallen out of copyright, some vidsnippet can be uploaded illustrating one. 65.94.77.11 (talk) 11:19, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Reqimage/Reqvideo

message: So, I think it's fair that there doesn't need to be a separate "hazard" section, but there is reliable source coverage of beds collapsing on people, and that's a phenomenon worth mentioning. As for your examples, I don't see why our article on bathtubs doesn't mention slips and falls or drownings; that's an oversight if it's never made it into the article, and certainly, oven hazards ought to make it into that article as well. Safety is an important aspect of industrial design for household appliances and furniture; there's nothing unencyclopedic about it, and the fact that it is (putatively) obvious that Murphy beds could be hazardous doesn't mean we shouldn't mention it. Chubbles (talk) 19:11, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually think that the hazard of being somehow folded up and suffocated is worth mentioning, because it's perhaps not obvious, but for that we'll still need an RS discussing that as a generality for this type of product -- two "freak accident" reports are not enough. But simply that something really big on hinges might fall on you if it's improperly installed is patently obvious, just as improperly installed cabinets might come down on you, an improperly installed garage door might land on your foot, improperly installed attic stairs might come loose and drop you on your ass, and so on; those things simply aren't worth mentioning unless, I suppose, there's some source discussing that, somehow, murphy beds are peculiarly susceptible to this kind of mal-installation. A good contrast is Garage door openers, which really do have peculiar hazards which have attracted substantial discussion and even regulatory intervention. EEng 19:31, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm also of the mind that yes, anything can be dangerous, and highlighting that this is a potential "hazard" isn't necessary, and as such suggest removing the line "When attempting to pull a Murphy bed down from the wall, if not installed properly, it is possible that it could collapse on the operator." The sourced notes about the drunk guy and the other incident I might suggest moving to the In Popular Culture section. Echoedmyron (talk) 19:47, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't going to bring it up, but without secondary sources tying it together and explaining its significance, the inpopcult stuff doesn't belong either -- it's just a laundry list of OR. EEng 20:55, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

text:  This book has an extended discussion of Murphy bed usage in physical comedy, much of which is based on the perceived danger of the furniture. I am requesting the book from my library so that I can cite it more fully, and will continue looking for more sources on the matter. Chubbles (talk) 16:51, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Good wprk! That's exactly the kind of source we needed. EEng 17:55, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hazards 

message: This sentence was recently removed: "In the PC video games The Sims 2 and The Sims 3, Murphy beds have the potential to kill playable characters, an allusion to the hazards of pulling them down." This is an interesting continuation of the movie sight gag into new media, though it's not much remarked upon in criticism (other than a passing mention in this). That at least establishes it against a WP:V claim; if anyone digs something up discussing it as part of gameplay, I'd love to see this content restored. Chubbles (talk) 04:44, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What's needed is a secondary source explaining how the appearance of murphy beds in a video game helps the reader better understand them. EEng 04:47, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Sims 

message: This article was at "Murphy bed" for years, and was recently changed to "wall bed" and then quickly to "pull-down bed", on grounds that Murphy bed is little-used outside of America. It's not yet evident that any of these other terms are better established, nor if there is one that clearly stands out as the general term. Most of the sourcing in the article uses the term "Murphy bed", though most of it is North American in origin. I am curious what article name is used in e.g. encyclopedias outside of North America that cover this topic. Chubbles (talk) 17:07, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Both of these moves were made by the same user  without discussion, based on unsubstantiated claims. Please explain. Echoedmyron (talk) 01:26, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

text: I'm having trouble finding many other resources that call it other things. Most of the coverage is American; it's an American invention, and so well-known under the name that it's trademark-genericized in the USA. I'll move it back, though if further sourcing comes to light it'd be valuable to revisit. Chubbles (talk) 13:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

text: There's a practical problem with the pagemove, so I'll put in a request at RM. Chubbles (talk) 13:59, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Moved  –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:43, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Pull-down bed →  – This appears to be the most common name of the item. Most available sourcing uses this term; it is the most common term used in the United States, where the item was invented; this usage is common enough that in the USA the trademark has become genericized. Technical restrictions are preventing an ordinary pagemove from occurring. Chubbles (talk) 14:01, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Comment: Bunk beds usually extend up along a wall, so I stand by my assertion that wall-bed will be confusing to some, especially to non-native English speakers. I also want to clarify that I did not introduce the term pull-down bed, it has been listed as one of many alternative names in this article for over ten years. Sauer202 (talk) 17:37, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: My point was that it was a silly reason to provide - bunk beds are two (or more) bed platforms stacked above each other. The opening line of this article states that the subject is "is a bed that is hinged at one end to store vertically against the wall". That does not equal "bunk bed" in any way. Echoedmyron (talk) 18:06, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You may think that is silly, but I felt wall bed was ambiguous, so then why use that when you can choose a title that is both descriptive and unambiguous? As I replied to you further up, a point of having intuitive article names is that you shouldn't have to open multiple articles and read each of their openings to find the one you are looking for. It may be a language issue, but whether you think that is silly is totally fine and up to you. Sauer202 (talk) 19:01, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

text: WP:NATURALDISAMBIGUATION does not apply in this case because there is no other article with the title Murphy bed, thus no disambiguation is required. Rreagan007 (talk) 05:22, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

text:  Well, here is the Google Ngrams for "Murphy bet" and "pull-down bed" restricted to just British English sources. As you can see, "Murphy bed" is the far more common term even in British English. Rreagan007 (talk) 05:09, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I can see, most of those sources are referring to America, even though they may be British publications. As I said, not a common thing in the UK. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:40, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 29 January 2022 

message: The photo with a caption "Workmen installing a wall bed" seems to be unnecessary: it does not show the bed or its installation. I propose to remove it. Викидим (talk) 06:36, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it does not show anything particularly noteworthy about the process, and in fact if one was not told it is a wall bed one might assume it is just a generic cabinet. Echoedmyron (talk) 11:31, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Workmen installing a wall bed illustration