Talk:420 (cannabis culture)/Archive 3

message: Also noted that the High School massacre occurred on April 20, 1999 (i've edited it in) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fultron89 (talk • contribs).
:neither the Columbine incident nor Adolf Hitler's birthday have anything to do with cannabis... this article is not April 20... - Adolphus79 21:57, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well we can only speculate if the Columbine massacre did or did not have anything to do with it (the perpetrators may have known about it and been smokers) whereas Hitler's birthday indeed has nothing to do with it, SqueakBox 19:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Even if those horrific anniversities have nothing to do with riefer it is regrettable that anyone might misunderstand.  Even if it's too late I'll make a suggestion: why not instead try March 4th (3/4, rie-fer, get it?).  tokerdesigner, Sep. 6, 2007  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.99.0.155 (talk) 21:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: the adolf hitler page lists his birthday as the 23, not 20 76.22.79.194 22:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: um actually it does say the 20thC. Pineda 02:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Columbine Shooting

message: "Ironically, the original copyright for the Captain Cannabis character in Canada was issued on 4/20"
This isn't ironic.
"The official "birth day" of the Captain Cannabis comic book character. Created during 1976 by Canadian comic book artist and animator Verne Andru, the government Copyright office issued an official copyright certificate for the Captain Cannabis character on/dated April 20, 1977. This marks Captain Cannabis as the earliest documented and verifiable cross-reference between the April 20th date and the Cannabis Culture."
:It sounds notable, but needs a source - I've asked User:Verne Andru to provide one, but he's yet to do so. --Joopercoopers 12:48, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It does seem rather possible it is a coincidence, unless a previously published reliable source has made this connection then this seems out of place. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 17:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Unless a previously published reliable source has associated the date of copyright with the 420 tradition, then there is no way to verify it is not just a coincidence. I don't think it should be included unless an existing sources finds a connection. Remember, 1 in every 365 things happen on April 20th, and a good number of those are pot related, it does not mean it is associated with the 420 phenomenon. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 03:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, there is a long standing consensus on this page not to include things that are not verifiably more than a coincidence. Look at the older revisions and you will see pages of such stuff that has been removed. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 16:06, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The existing consensus is that it should not be included, and you have a clear conflict of interest. I welcome your turning to dispute resolution, but your citation does not demonstrate anything more than a coincidence. This article does not document 420 coincidences. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 16:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO it shouldnt be included. Please dont imagien you'll get your way by edit warring as that isnt howe it works here, SqueakBox 17:09, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Verne Andru has earned himself a 24 hour 3RR block. I have also made a report at WP:COIN to ask an independent review. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 17:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-04-18 420 (cannabis culture), High and Cooper are named, SqueakBox 17:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I saw, I doubt anything will come of it. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 17:33, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain Cannabis 

message: :Would be good to see this article on the front page for Friday. Any ideas? SqueakBox 02:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I plan on taking pictures of Victoria, BC's rather large yearly 420 celebration and posting them here. We usually get over 300 people at city hall. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 03:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I looked into what must be done to get an article on the front page.  Seems as if there's a formal review process (and waiting list) to be the featured article.  "In the news" also has some strict criteria (including "story of an international importance") before items are candidates for inclusion.  There may be a chance to include the article for "On this day" consideration, though an editor last year did not take kindly to an unsigned 420 request. — Hiplibrarianship 06:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, I as planning on a picture for this article, not the front page. This is a rather obscure holiday, not really suited for the main page(yet, give it 10 years hehe). HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 12:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The big day

message: "The big day", as alluded to above, is fast approaching, what does anyone reckon to s-protecting it for the duration of that day, to avoid the tedious furore we had last year? Jdcooper 02:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Protection should not be used preventively. We can always just revert at the end of the day. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 03:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: After a bit of vandalism and reverting this past weekend, semi-protection was granted on 14 April (expires on 21 April). — Hiplibrarianship 05:31, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Depends entirely whether one believes in coincidence/synchronicity etc, SqueakBox 19:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there an independent reliable source that makes such a connection? HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 19:12, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  April 20th 

message: Please understand that I was not necessarily advocating recreation of a "cultural references" section as a solution to your dispute- only that if such a section were created, Captain Cannabis might be suitable for inclusion in it. At this point, it looks to me like such a section has been problematic for most of you in the past. It might be a cleaner solution to stick a disambiguation notice, or even a disambiguation page if that's necessary.
For those unfamiliar with the concept, those are the incidences of "This article is about the use of 420 as a date or time. For the comic book, please see Captain Cannabis.
I would also like to reiterate that Captain Cannabis' being considered for deletion kind of throws a wrench in the works here. If the article is deleted, 420 (comic book) is almost certainly not appropriate for inclusion in this article, either- though it'll be a judgement call. --Moralis (talk) 19:06, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We do have 420 (disambiguation), if a comic book by the name of 420 can demonstrate it meets inclusion standards it can link from there. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 19:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: We have no problem with a cultural references section, as long as the items it contains have independent sources demonstrating notability and relevance to the article. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 19:59, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Notable, maybe, I am note sure about that. I will respect the judgment of the closer of the AfD on that matter. If the AfD finds that the character/comic is notable then I agree that as it is mentioned now is relevant. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 20:59, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification from the Mediator 

message: :::I noticed one significant thing missing from this page - The Bob Dylan song "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35."  Note the lyrics, the whole song obviously is about smoking marijuana - "Well you should not feel so all alone, everybody must get stoned!"  I had always attributed the '420 phenomenon' to this song.  Do the math - 12 times 35 = 420.  Too much of a coincidence...and it was released in '66 well before '71.  Perhaps the "creators" attributed on this wiki page created it from this song?  - Abzoeller
:Has a reliable source made this connection? HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 19:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The maths bit sounds far fetched to me, SqueakBox 19:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is exactly the kind of rubbish we were trying to avoid (no disrespect to the proposing editor, only to the theory) when we got rid of the first "cultural references" section. We spent endless hours on this page debating Hitler's birthday, the Columbine shootings, that fucking Dylan track and umpteen other hare-brained theories. Yes it is a coincidence. Massively far-fetched. The number of songs that have been written about weed, and the nature of being stoned, conspiracy theories and wishful interpretations like this are going to propogate themselves horribly. Its Nostradamus or The Bible all over again. Jdcooper 21:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: It mentions getting stoned not 420. If it were a modern song it might be related but way back then it clearly wasnt. Anyway you need to source such a claim, SqueakBox 17:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is about 420 in relation to cannabis, for other uses of 420 see 420 (disambiguation). HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 17:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dylan

message: happy 420, everyone!!!! we will make this a day not to remember!24.144.137.244 19:21, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  4/20

message: The Hebrew word עשנ (Ayin-Shin-Nun), means "Smoke", and adds up to 420 by Gematria.
Don't delete that. It's perfectly valid to the article.
:You need a reliable source that demonstrates its connection with cannabis culture, and please don't vandalize my userpage or you will be blocked. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 20:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hebrew word

message: Dunno if this is the right place, but I am requesting the protected 420 page be edited to correct the following:
"...420 has never been verified as the police dispatch code for anything in any locale.[8]"
In fact, 420 IS San Francisco Police Dept radio code for “Juvenile Disturbance”. This is awfully close to the urban legend that 420 means juvenile delinquency. While explanations as to origins of the term vary, it seems incorrect for wiki’s page to state that “420 has never been verified as the police dispatch code for anything in any locale”. This should be corrected to include that 420 is an SFPD radio code.
Reference link:
User:theaternearyou
via - Alison☺ 00:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done and done, nice work! Jdcooper 01:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But has a reliable source made this connection? The citation provided does not support a connection to cannabis culture. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 13:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

text: While this is an interesting new wrinkle to the 420 urban legends universe, it seems more of a footnote to me. — Hiplibrarianship 13:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: SFPD code: Moved from [[WP:RPP]]

message: Should we really be documenting the theories that have been shown to be incorrect? Discussions about this in the past have reached a consensus not to do so, Talk:420_%28cannabis_culture%29/Archive_1#No_need_for_coincidences_in_this_article, and Talk:420_%28cannabis_culture%29/Archive_2#Refuted_urban_legends. There have to be 20-30 different origin myths, none of which are exceptionally more popular than the others. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 13:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I took it. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 02:01, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Urban legends 

message: * Ontario's Highway 420 serves as the site of an annual cannabis rally 
:*Highway 420 Cannabis Rally site
* "The Legend of 420" is a story featured in the stage production The Marijuana-Logues
:*Marijuana-Logues cast recording
*NORML launches its daily "AudioStash" podcast at 4:20 every weekday
:*
These items need to have independent reliable sources, for a couple is should be easy, for others perhaps less easy. I have moved them here from the article. I have placed the primary sources next to them as a possible starting point. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 04:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Verne, that is all it takes. I will try to dig up that High Times issue later from the local club. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 15:18, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

text: This article is really starting to shape up. It actually has a decent references section. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 23:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed, the article is looking good.  I guess I'm a bit unclear about the independent requirement.  In all three cases above (Highway 420 rally, Marijuana-Logues, and NORML audiostash) the citations are to primary sources. Are primary sources insufficient? — Hiplibrarianship 23:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: In order to maintain a NPOV, we need sources independent of the event. For example, we might go to "Jim's weed advocacy group"'s website and it might say they were the first to use 420, or that their rallies have over 5000 people, but unless an independent source confirms this we have to take it with a grain of salt. After all, there are hundreds of the "Best furniture stores", if you believe the advertising. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 23:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: See also: Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources_.28online_and_paper.29 HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 23:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Items need independent sources 

message: Didn't this article used to be a lot longer and more awesome? Timan123 16:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Longer and More Awesome