Talk:Chicken Kiev

message: I'm finding sources which claim French, Ukrainian, and Russian origins of the dish. My best source so far (added) simply says it's disputed. Ifnord (talk) 19:05, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There is currently no reliable secondary source on the history of this dish. This article contains the most extensive collection of primary sources. The source which you added (from The Telegraph) is yet another collection of unfounded rumours found across the Web. In fact, it is partially based on this article. From the primary sources (historical cookbooks etc.) we can conclude that the dish originated in the beginning of the 20th century in Russian Empire which included both Russia and Ukraine at that time. So I revert the information in the infobox back to "Russian Empire" which is more informative than just "disputed". --Off-shell (talk) 21:26, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's a French dish. Neither Russia nor Ukraine had anything to do with the dish as first served.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.73.163.113 (talk) 15:53, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin? 

message: https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/status/1184491369139785733 Chicken Kiev joins Peking Duck in the extremely small and very exclusive Colonial Fowl Club. (Slava Malamud, Oct 16, 2019)--73.75.115.5 (talk) 09:47, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colonial Fowl Club 

message: As there is no such word as 'Kiev' to refer to the Ukrainian capital city, calling Ukrainian dish as 'chicken kiev' is egregious mistake.
I urge editors and moderators be more reasonable and not to sabotage other people's edits that correct this obvious omission.
It's 2021 now, i beg y'all, wake up.
:Please see WP:COMMONNAME. If menus and recipe books in the English-speaking world pick up on this and start spelling the dish's name  that way, then fine. I understand the government's desire to de-Russify the city's name, but the notion that the name of the food must change has been strongly rejected on Wikipedia as disruptive. It's food, it's not a city. See the discussion immediately above, there are plenty of anachronistic food names, especially where Italy, for instance, is concerned - most major cities in Italy have English names that are different from Italian usage. Acroterion (talk) 15:16, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: And never try to slip an edit past using a deceptive edit summary like "Missing file fixed". Acroterion (talk) 15:18, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not slipping, after previous changes one filename was corrupted. --Dmytro Herhel (talk) 18:29, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You did a lot more than change one filename. Acroterion (talk) 18:40, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, because you reverted changes while my filename editing. Arguing makes no sence :). --Dmytro Herhel (talk) 20:24, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

text: For future reference, Google Ngram shows that "Chicken Kiev" is used to refer to the dish, while "Chicken Kyiv" is hardly ever used. Mellk (talk) 20:56, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The common name of the dish continues to be Chicken Kiev, just as we continue to use Madras Curry Powder (rather than Chennai Curry Powder). Woke revisionism has not reached the culinary world yet. WWGB (talk) 06:58, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

text: This is the most important piece. The Russians don't use the English Alphabet, they never spelled it "Kiev". They spelled it Київ. Stop with this anti-western revisionist history garbage. 98.219.224.139 (talk) 06:55, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

text: This is not entirely true. Sure, OED only lists "Kiev", but Webster lists both versions as equally valid, U.S. Board on Geographic Names, and a lot of media outlets have switched to "Kyiv" (NY Times, WSJ, Wasthington Post, The Telegraph, and the BBC). So Kyiv is already widely used and its usage seems to be growing.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielCarrera (talk • contribs) 07:52, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chicken Kyiv (not kiev) 

message: Change All references of Kiev to Kyiv. 
Kiev is Russian terminology not Ukrainian where the name originated. 
Make the changes out of respect for the Ukraine and it's culture. This dish did not originate in the Russian empire. It Originated in the Ukrainian city of Kyiv. 212.129.83.139 (talk) 21:01, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Russians don't spell the city name using English letters. You're full of it. The Russian name is Київ. 98.219.224.139 (talk) 06:56, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Russian doesn't have letter "ї", what are you even talking about? Russians use word "Киев" (Kiev) when referring to the capital of Ukraine. Ukrainians, on the other hand, use word "Київ" (Kyiv) 159.148.8.38 (talk) 11:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

text: Please follow Wikipedia policy instead of WP:RGW. Mellk (talk) 19:10, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2022 

message: Kyiv is a Ukrainian city. Why do you insist on using the Russian spelling? Why did you lock the page from edits?
Let us correct the monstrous error now! It is Chicken Kyiv! Walfin (talk) 14:38, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Per sources and consensus the dish is called Chicken Kiev. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:09, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Russian spelling is Київ. Kiev is the English spelling and has been for centuries. 98.219.224.139 (talk) 06:57, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The Russian spelling is Ки́ев, there is no ї in the Russian Cyrillic alphabet. 23.123.132.37 (talk) 13:01, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chicken Kyiv please 

message: please change Chicken Kiev to Chicken Kyev Glasgowdick (talk) 06:48, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: See above and WP:COMMONNAME Cannolis (talk) 06:51, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2022 

message: It seems that the consensus is to use "Kiev" when referring to the dish and "Kyiv" when referring to the city. In that case, the photo caption beginning "Continental hotel in Kiev [...]" is inconsistent with this style and ought to be "Kyiv". (I'm not sure about "Kiev-style"/"Kyiv-style".) Also, this is bound to confuse, so it would be good to include something at the beginning of the article, along the lines of "Chicken Kievs are named after the city of Kyiv, which is also romanised as Kiev." EggFaultCoreDumped (talk) 01:33, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Also, WP:KYIV says: "For unambiguously historical topics (e.g. Kiev Offensive), do not change existing content". Photo of Continental hotel was made between 1890 and 1905, not after 1991. Arado Ar 196 (talk) 06:18, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That doesn't really make sense, considering that the very same hotel is described inline as "the Continental hotel in Kyiv" and "A luxury hotel built in 1897 in the center of Kyiv". Just being old doesn't make it "unambiguously historical"; were the hotel named "The Continental Hotel of Kiev" then it would make sense to honour that name, but in this case we are describing the hotel in our own, modern words. Moreover, I don't think there was anything ambiguous about my request. EggFaultCoreDumped (talk) 19:32, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2022 

message: Change “Kyiv” to “Kiev”.
The name of the dish, which originated in Russia, is Chicken Kiev. At the very least, the article should identify both spellings. 14.200.54.50 (talk) 01:51, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: The article consistently refers to the dish as chicken Kiev, with both spellings mentioned in the introduction (and one source being about the change in spelling). The city consistently uses the native spelling of Kyiv and is linked on the first usage as the city. —C.Fred (talk) 01:56, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2022 

message: The article draws an analogy between 'chicken Kiev' and 'Peking duck'. This is unfair. First, the duck dish is almost universally called 'Peking duck' in English, whereas 'chicken Kyiv' is increasingly standard. Secondly, 'Peking' is not 'disfavoured' the way 'Kiev' is. It is simply old. It would be more neutral to simply say that 'Peking duck' uses an old form of the city's name. --49.255.185.235 (talk) 01:59, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure where this is coming from. I pretty much only see Chicken Kiev, and Peking is probably more disfavored than Kiev (not withstanding the last few weeks). Fyunck(click) (talk) 03:30, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi there, I didn't say it was less, or more, disfavoured, but that Peking is not 'disfavoured' in the same way. "Chicken Kiev" is being actively "disfavoured" due to perceived political insensibility, given its Russian connotations and the current war: e.g. here, or here. "Peking" is not "disfavoured" in that sense - "Peking" is the old spelling, but "Peking duck" is alive and well and not being politically opposed. There is no active movement to rebrand "Peking duck" to "Beijing duck". My point is the analogy is not apt, at least in the terms as currently phrased. --49.255.185.235 (talk) 06:20, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as recent, recent to Wikipedia is like the last couple years. We don't look at what happens over 3 weeks. That's for newspapers. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:14, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peking duck 

message: It is also very popular in Poland where it is also known as kotlet de volaille or devolaj. The sentence "Stuffed chicken breast is generally known in Ukrainian and Russian cuisines as côtelette de volaille" should have Poland added to the list as well as its omission gives the false impression that the dish is only significant in Ukraine and Russia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.9.195.168 (talk) 17:32, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polish Version 

message: Remove reference to Kyiv in the first sentence leaving just Kiev.  
This request has been raised because just one British supermarket has changed it's packaging (see footnote#2 article) probably just for commercial gain, and by no means a justification to amend decades of history. 188.31.208.3 (talk) 10:37, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: This is actually a controversial edit, so you'll need to discuss first with other editors. Please open a new section here and start a discussion. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:49, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2022 

message: Please change Chicken Kiev to Chicken Kyiv!
Kyiv is capital of UKRAINE and the English version of UKRAINIAN name is KYIV! 94.254.176.6 (talk) 05:55, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Per Wikipedia consensus and sources it is Chicken Kiev and only sometimes Chicken Kyiv. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:06, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2022 

message: Change “Kiev” spelling to “Kyiv”.
The dish is widely cooked in Ukraine, and everywhere it's being cooked it's called “Chicken Kyiv”.
“Kiev” spelling is Russian-derived and is not used anymore. Moreover, it's inappropriate and offensive to spell “Kiev”, especially while referring to the Ukrainian traditional cuisine.
These sources prove why “Kyiv” spelling is better and more accurate:
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/kyiv-not-kiev-why-spelling-matters-in-ukraines-quest-for-an-independent-identity/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/how-to-pronounce-and-spell-kyiv-kiev-ukraine-and-why-it-matters
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kyiv-kiev-ukraine-name-b2023400.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNotKiev Oksana Beseda (talk) 09:41, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. As stated many times above. Current consensus is to use "Kiev" for this dish name since it's still the more commonly used name of the dish (even though Kyiv is no longer frequently spelled as Kiev). Perhaps get a new consensus, and/or show sources that show people using chicken Kyiv as this dish's spelling nowadays (not just people using Kyiv to refer to the city). 💜  melecie  talk - 09:53, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2022 

message: In the lede, the clause "sometimes known as Chicken Kyiv" has both initials in the noun capitalized, when chicken Kiev is generally written with the first initial lowercased when referred to in sentence case, including in this article. IMO, the clause should read "sometimes known as chicken Kyiv". Kyoto Grand (talk) 18:57, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You're absolutely correct. I try to correct this whenever I see this come up on my watchlist but people always re-mangle it. You should always feel free to fix this; food names that are not trademarked are not capitalised except to the extent of words that are the names of individual people or places. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 20:29, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That needs to be fully discussed and vetted here as to whether it's a proper name. You don't have a dish name of just Kiev... it's Chicken Kiev. There are also many sources that use chicken kiev with no capitals. If you go by strict wikipedia rules unless all the sources capitalize nothing should be capitalized. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:52, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did you read everything I wrote? Words that are the names of individual people or places ARE still capitalized: chicken Kiev, oysters Rockefeller, peach Melba, Cincinnati chili, etc. But just because one word is a proper noun doesn't mean the entire title of the dish is capitalized.  "Peking Duck", "Thousand Island Dressing", and "Memphis-Style Barbecue" are unequivocally incorrect; they're Peking duck, Thousand Island dressing, and Memphis-style barbecue. And there are plenty of instances in which the generic food type is the first name in the dish without any words warranting capitalization, like pasta primavera; no one calls it "primavera" any more than the name "chicken Kiev" means that the dish is somehow known only as "Kiev" (or "Kyiv"), or oysters Rockefeller are known only as "Rockefeller". It's as though there is an elided à la in the middle. Apparently people do call cacciatore and tetrazzini only by those names, but those dishes are made with many different substrates. I've never heard of, e.g., salami Kiev or carrots Rockefeller, although I suppose those sound like excellent food-blogger challenges. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 00:07, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: But not if they are not usually capitalized in sources. Usually I see Chicken Kiev in recipes whether its Food52 or Everyday Cooking. Sure chicken is often not capitalized, but so is kiev in the dish. It keeps getting reverted by folks (my first time) because it's not what they know, it's not what they see, and it looks weird. Fyunck(click) (talk) 01:02, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  first paragraph capitalization edit request 

message: We all know that Russia has invaded Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia et al multiple times and have forced the people there to abandon their language and speak Russian, and even planted Russians in positions of power as kind of a "cultural genocide" to their neighboring countries, but now that Russia is doing an actual, physical genocide on Ukraine, maybe we should not put the Russian language translation alongside Ukrainian translations, and certainly not BEFORE Ukrainian.
The same would go for Georgian, Latvian, Estonian, Belarussian, Khazak and all the other languages and people that Russia is trying to wipe from existence.  I know Wikipedia has to be unbiased, but we also shouldn't side with dictators and terrorists or promote them.  We can tell facts about them, as any good encyclopedia does, but we shouldn't help their cause.
Thoughts? Miketheburns (talk) 09:56, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you should read the voluminous discussions elshwhere on this talkpage. Acroterion (talk) 10:00, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: This is not a Russian language translation or a cultural genocide. This is a chicken dish. The WordsmithTalk to me 00:23, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: On the contrary, you have summed up the reasons that chicken Kyiv has recently gained usage: because of the recognition that the other spelling is derived from Russian after centuries of cultural suppression and genocide. A catchall term is decolonization. —Michael Z. 16:01, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: So much suppression, that Ukraine appeared on map. Decolonization refers strictly to Western mentality. The nations, which Russia supported and invested into developed narcissism and thought they would do fine without it. Huge mistake. As a proof observe the bankruptcy of Latvian RRR electronics plant or look at citation first President of Ukraine Kravchuk: in 1991  Russia left Ukraine with second largest army in Europe and economical power equal to France. Fast forward to 2013 and over 1/3 population compared to 1991 have migrated away, and there is enough public indignation to revolt against own oligarches, all of which were ruling the country with West mentality. 20 years to drive top republic into abyss, well done.89.1.150.225 (talk)  — Preceding undated comment added 01:41, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Get rid of Russian language for Ukrainian Articles? 

message: 93.79.110.246 (talk) 17:14, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: see responses to identical requests above Cannolis (talk) 17:24, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2023 

message: Change Kiev to Kyiv 2403:6200:8870:6C04:C75:7D5F:E329:A61 (talk) 07:48, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: see past discussions. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:51, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2023