Talk:National Development Front

message: This document is trying to be hijacked by two opposing views. I think it is better to have a session about what is NDF by the "NDF people" and What critics says about by its "critics". The information in WIKI should be neutral to the readers for its own neutrality. It is not a place for war. The issue on Marad is controversial. It is true that Five brothors have brutally killed in Marad-2, but it should be read with that in Marad-1, on which the opposite also lost their life. If something happens (Prays not to happen) in future then we shouldn't treat it as a seperate one. We should keep all in a sequense and treat it together to bring the culprits to account and bring the society to harmony before the Marad-1. Let the views talk each other and indian democracy is powerful enough to give the opposing views have its own importance. Let wiki be neutral. 
by 
anonymous
I've rewritten the article today, keeping closely to what has been published by reliable sources and focusing it on the National Democratic Front. There is also  a redirect here from National Development Front at the moment, but that is not substantiated by the sources I've seen. --Mereda 15:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Rss/BJP/Muslim league were not involved in the Marad massacre, it was the RSS/NDF  and the Araya Samajam. These terrorists massacred five Hindus(and muslims in 2002) at the beach, the police killed one terrorist in crossfire(a lie), the terrorists hid inside a mosque. When the police tried to get them, a mob of the terrorists wives surrounded the Mosque, barring entry.The police later found bombs, and swords there. By then, the Araya Samajam terrorists and VHP terrorists had evicted all terrorists from the area, and as of now, I dont think the terrorists have been able to return, even with pleas from the Communist party.Bakaman 17:05, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: If you read the Malayalam text on :Image:Kerala2006_%2818%29.JPG, the name of the organization is actually National Development Front. --Soman 15:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Support - correct name.Bakaman 17:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I've completed the page move.  Cheers. -GTBacchus(talk) 18:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move

message: *Terrorism, is a word to avoid. The NDFFare undoubtably involved in political and communal killings, but that is not the same as being a terrorist in its encyclopediatic definition. See similar arguments about Shiv Sena at List of terrorist organizations.
*ISI connections? Needs to be backed up by other quotes than from politicians. The standard explanation that all evil is a foreign import is mainstay in Indian politics, and accusations of ISI links to quite widely distributed. (Likewise allegations of RAW connections in Bangladesh).
*Role in Muslim communal politics in the state? See for example 
*Regarding political alliance building, .
--Soman 18:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Similar arguments? Especially because you were the only person making the argument. They were implicated in the massacre of Hindus, and in rampant assassinations of their political enemies.Bakaman 18:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Dear editors, please see the edited pages in this articles. May be you are not aware of this organisation in deep. I have gathered the information from reliable medias and sources. NDF is accused of terrorism and killing innocents. But it is not in the agenda of NDF. It work for freedom and human rights of common people in the country. See its website in the references.Sundaram7 06:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  some points 

message: Note that Vinod Kumar's article doesn't mention the causes behind the banning of ISS. --Soman 14:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ISS 

message: Editors of this article: please don't do unprofessional disputes flipping the pages with each other. Please follow wikipedia's policies to change the pages. If you have arguments and counter arguments, please discuss it first and then modify. Please dont put immotional statements and arguments in the text. Please feel positive and try to resolve this dispute.-- Sundaram7 06:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have semiprotected the article. I have never heard of the group, but if WP is going to call it "militant Islamist", we'd need a good reference for that, especially since the epitet seems to be disputed. The reference quoted in support of "The organization is one of the organizations that took over the political vacuum when the Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS) of Abdul Nasser Madani was banned in 1993" is mentioning NDF in a single sentence, saying "newly-formed groups like the National Democratic Front (NDF) have emerged as stronger alternatives to ISS and SIMI and have allegedly masterminded communal violence in recent years". That is, the source is not itself alleging anything, but it can be quoted as a reference that there are allegations to the effect that the group is involved in communal violence. Keep everything closely sourced and stop the edit-warring. dab (𒁳) 12:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I think the article is quite balanced right now.Bakaman 17:26, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: glad to hear it, maybe you can ask Freedom skies to cut the revert-warring. They may well be a "militant Islamist" group, I wouldn't know, but before we're not going to state that as a fact if it is disputed. As it is, we don't even have a source that calls them "militant Islamist". One article calls them as "shadowy outfit", and I don't doubt they are. But usually, you can tell a group is "militant Islamist" because they tell you they are, waving rifles and shouting a lot. A group that does not self-identify as militant Islamist shouldn't be so called lightly, certainly not on WP. dab (𒁳) 11:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Other than the unsourced allegations of "militant Islamism", the article defines the general mainstream view on NDF, they shot into prominence after massacring a bunch of Hindus on a beach in 2002, and are known for using death squads for killing their opponents. The BJP alleged they have links to the ISI.Bakaman 16:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Dab you are incorrect, NDF activists were directly implicated in the massacre. The BJP alleged NDF was connected to the ISI. See "it was the NDF and IUML, which planned and implemented the massacre in Marad", and a cursory look at the CBI sheet.Bakaman 04:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: quoth thehindu.com. the references you removed said otherwise. Bakaman, I know you are biased, but even you must recognize that you cannot use thehindu.com as a neutral or authoritative source. As I said, it may be true for all I know, but the point is that not all sources agree on it, and no court decision has been shown to exist so far. dab (𒁳) 10:18, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Hindu is a mainstream newspaper. I have no need to quote "hindunet", "hindu unity", the RSS and other orgs closer to my POV when mainstream media has a dark view on the NDF.It seems you are unaware of what is mainstream in India."Hindu" in this case is in the context of Hindustan, not "Hindu dharma".Bakaman 23:12, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OTOH, dalitvoice, human rights kerala, and etc, are fringe and partisan mouthpieces. I might as well quote LeT on this org if anti-Semitic papers are the only things praising the NDF.Bakaman 23:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute On this Article 

message: I am a new user of wiki. I am a person from kerala now based in bangalore. As per my knowladge and as per the public opinion NDF is an organization that is patriotic and that strives for the devolopment of our coutry. Whatever allegations put here are just the other side of the media and the fascist criminals just because a majority of people behind the organization are muslims. Please try to be neutral and please save wiki from the rise of islamophobia.
This article should be corrected. 
I suggest that http://www.ndfindia.com/ which is their official site should be put in External links. And that is a must!!
Please go through the site and verify the facts, especially in the news section. The kind of activities the organization is involved shows their true nature. Those facts can be verified.
It is shame full that editors in wiki are also trapped by the fascists criminals.
-- wrongNot Feb20 2007
Article was being modified in the right direction by User:Dbachmann and now the user Bakaman is creating trouble. 
Please discuss the issue which you are having and lets resolve it before updating. 
The user will have to explain why he deleted few facts which were laid by along with references and added new informations which are just an accusation by the largest communal parties.  </font>
why did this user remove the below information added by User:Dbachmann
</font>
"A killing of 8 Hindus in Bepur known as the "Marad massacre". NDF has condemned the incident and rejects all allegations of involvement, NDF is accused in Marad massacre NDF denies accusition in Marad massacre . and welcomed the CBI inquiry which did not investigate NDF involvement NDF welcomes CBI Prbe NDF's Involvement in Marad massacre . "
I can see that this user Bakaman have active roles in the articles on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and  VHP, groups that is trying to eliminate mulims from india and make india a hindu nation. (See the banner on the site RSS.org). Vast majority of Hindus as well as the political parties are strongly against the activities of these groups. </font>
-- wrongNot Feb22 2007
Wrong not 06:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article must be rewritten 

message: There are few relavant points in this section, which we need to review and expand further. But the real fact is missing. For example in the article "between hope and fear" in hinduonline, there is no mentioning about the 2002 massacre. But there is a quoting in the article which ways In Marad, RSS activists who are guilty of the crimes committed during the 2002 incident are roaming around freely. Now it is confusing. I have removed some POVs as cited by Baka, Soman and Pens Withdrawn. They are dicussed in the above sections. We need to continue the positive discussion to clean up this article.---- Sundaram7 14:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a quote from the head of the terrorist group himself accusing the RSS of terrorism. Don't take things out of context.Bakaman 18:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not fair to call an Human Activist as terrorist. There should be references and judgement to support your POV. For some editors, others who are against their thoughts, they just call them as terrorist and try to make the white black!!  Sundaram7 07:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism 

message: This article has been a subject of revert warring since a long time. Please discuss here instead of blindly reverting. I am also concerned that people are engaging in sockpuppetry in order to evade 3RR. I am investigating the matter. - Aksi_great (talk) 08:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do see Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Pens withdrawn.Bakaman 17:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Very Good Initiative: This is a very good initiative from Aksi_great to protect the article from POV, Vandals and 3RR from unknown people. You might see different cases related to 3RRs and vandals here:  and . You could see most of the 3RRs and vandals in the articles were from sockpuppets and unknown users from IPs. See the edits , , , and also numerous continous edits on the article here .  User is found in the same ip range of the sock puppet of  and .Thanks to the admin team for taking appropriate action on the sockpuppets and vandals. --- Sundaram7 05:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article protected 

message: 1. Why you call it as militant Islamist organization ? What is your reference fot it? 
Answer>>I used the description "Right wing Islamic organization " only check the wiki edits.
Extensive mainstream media reports are there to prove. Your version is nothing but a replica of NDF portal, can you provide a non-partisan mentioning it as not an Islamic organization 
:: Again, Where in the article it says NDF is a 'RIGHT WING'?? Secondly, a email discussion group cannot be accepted as a resource for wikipedia. It is another false argument that I am copying 'NDF portal'!!. Show me otherwise. Please respect the WP:NPOV. Thirdly the definition of Right_Wing is associated with a political party and is not applicable here.
2. What is your evidence for NDF allegedly encourages Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala.?
Answer>>it was reported by a governmental agency "The kerala State Police" the source  http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/14/stories/2005051402780700.htm . A report presented by an IPS ranked  Officer under his/ her capacity as the Commissionar of Police Kozhikode district . The only placed  used this was under
alleged foreign connection and no where else. Which is the  acceptable  resource for wikipedia ? governmental agency source or the ones sited from the mouth piece of NDF or Jama et Islami or other Partisan Orgainizations siting that state establishment is colluding with its opponents . we can wait for a nuetral source to come out with an answer on which is an [[WP:NPOV]
:: This was already proven that it was a play between the HIV leader Kummanam and Neera Ravath. How a confidential paper did was given to Kummanam and the same report was later shown to government. This way it is proven that it is a fascist propoganda. It is a utter failure of our Police that they are also influenced by the fascist move. "Notably, Ms. Rawat’s evidence was necessitated when the Hindu Aikya Vedi general secretary Kummanam Rajasekharan deposed before the Marad Commission on April 4 by submitting the same police report against NDF. Ms. Rawat had no convincing answer as to how the Hindu militant leader got the report in advance, which she herself termed as “confidential”." see http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2005/01-15June05-Print-Edition/011506200502.htm. This controversial material cannot be published in WP:Wikipedia. We have enough material already to publish but not doubtful and half truth.
3. How you can say It also stands accused of being a propaganda front for numerous Islamic terrorist groups, and for orchestrating the 2002 Marad massacre (see Criticism below)  ?? In 2002, among the arrested were workers of Hindutva workers of ARAYASAMAJAM, RSS. Are they Islamist parties? So there is no logic or reference to prove your point. 
Answer>>I added it is a propaganda front under 2003 Marad massacre not 2002, this too was substantiated citing reports in mainstream media originated from Police and Intelligence agencies,among the arrested were only workers of Hindutva workers of ARAYASAMAJAM, RSS . A item under criticism refered as Modus Operandi published in frontline courting a governement source also worth noting. Here also [[WP:NPOV] needs to be judged by a third party as one of the particies does'nt see governement source as nuetral.
   
:: I think you have only little knowledge on the subject According to the Justice Thomas P. Joseph Commission report, of the 393 persons against whom charge-sheets were filed in 115 cases relating to the January 2002 incident, 213 were activists of the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS)/Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), 86 were of the Muslim League and 78 of the Communist Party of India (Marxist). see http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2320/stories/20061020003810600.htm
4. You changed in sevaral places from the fact as 'claiming' of NDF. Why you don't want to agree on the facts? 
Answer>>I havenotdone that. which are Facts and claims depends on the perspective of contributers also. The NPOV here are different for the 2 sides , for one side 'Fact' is mainstream media reports based on Governamental agencies and for the other 'Facts' exactly the claim made the NDF and allied organizations through their mouthpiece. How there will be a mutual consensus on this in such a scenario?
5. You are calling Mukuntan C Menon as radical Islamist !!. Why you want to call him this way...? he is not even a Muslim!! 
Answer>>This got removed already. Article is  seen opiniating him as a "Great human rights Activist". Him being a non-muslim does,nt bar him from associating with muslim group. Is Dr Najma Heptullah, Muqthar Abbas Naqwi associated with Sangh Pariwar Hindus?
Mukuntan C Menon's is associated with Thejas daily the mouthpiece of NDF , he is referred in article as a Journalist only.fundamentalist groups often quotes articles from Ultra Left wing due to their congruence in stand on various issues such US imperialism,Israel,Hindutva forces, with a transactional association with a person will there be diference in stand of an organization again  wait for a nuetral source to come out on which is an [[WP:NPOV]
:: This way you agrees that it is not a fundamentalist and right wing. Mukunthan C Menon was a leftist thinker.. 
6. Why you want to link it to ISI and Pakistan? Did any government agency prove this? It is just some propaganda of fascist and unpopular parties in india. All parties have their opposition. This party is not an exception. 
Answer>>Yes it was reported by a government agency "The kerala State Police" 
the source http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/14/stories/2005051402780700.htm .I do entered article linking with ISI and Pakistan with O.Rs given to question 2
:: see my comment on question 2
7 It is a new finding from your group that NDF is started by Abdulnassar Madani!! .It looks like LogicaCMG.com / 59.145.142.36, is pledged to defeat this article!. 
Answer>>This was removed already You were making the article a propaganda centre for NDF likes it portal.All the claims made by the organization are refered as 'Facts' Does mentioning of activities of this organization siting WP:OR tantamount to defeating this article.Here the question is which is an WP:NPOV
:: come to the point, I stated 'NDF is started by Abdulnassar Madani' is a POV.
8 Where in the internview [1] the guy find that the organisation is a right wing? 
Answer>> Read the 2 articles  properly . does it sound for you it is like any other organization as you have stated .This because the WP:NPOV for you are articles from either NDF or its allied Organization
:: I have read the article and I cannot find it. Show me this as an answer from the interviewed person. As this is an interview, the POV of the interviewer is not acceptable.
9 What is your reference to prove that NDF is a militant group? 
Answer>> "Right wing Islamic organisation " is used there .WP:OR as per this 'point of view ' are provided . The contrarian view differs from this , so no consensus
:: It is you who brought the argument and you should prove it. Dont be silly on it.
10 What you mean by Forced Implementation Of Sharia ?? There is nothing of that information explained in the reference:[2]. This is a real POV! 
Answer>> "Implementation of religious code " was used ..WP:OR as per this 'point of view ' are provided regarding this  After going through the if you didn’t find the entries regarding Implementation of religious code . I'am surprised. 
:: I didnt see it says about "relegious code"!
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Liberal Democrat (talk • contribs) 11:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  See my comments to your answers. -- Sundaram7 12:23, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POVs for this aricle, the bone of contention 

message: The VandaL sundaram7 is removing sourced articles article under the pretext that any thing stated outside the manifesto of NDF are not NPOVs  . He is seen loosely quoting wiki rules whenever necessary, under many occasions WP:Verifiability is not followed in quoting O.Rs, the WP:Verifiability section "Sources in languages other than English" was never followed from the beggining. Overall idea seems to make the article a propaganda pag of this organization
Removed the following vandals:
* To defend the human rights atrocities from Police, Military, Government and non governmental agencies.Widespread protests against death sentence
:Reason: The reference given is not relavant.
The Thomas P Joseph Commission report found that "activists of  NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre"
:Reason: The Joseph P. Commission is avaliable in web for reference. This is not found in the report:
http://mathrubhumi.com/2006_customimages/news/PF123172_marad01.pdf.
NDF has also been blamed for inciting violence against moderate Muslims in Kerala, in opposition to liberal and reformist Islamic movements and individuals.<ref name="CC">Communalism Combat March 1999 
:Reason: The source is not reliable and it is a source of Communist/Marxist Propoganda.
In addition, the State secretary of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) in Kerala, Pinarayi Vijayan, has said that NDF was involved in the Marad massacre and referred to them as a "terrorist outfit" that executed a "planned mass murder".UDF Slept As Marad Burned, by Aboo Backer, CPI(M) weekly
: This is not a place to put the POV from different political leaders.
::What about the stated manifesto's of NDF which are opininiated as facts  , can you prove through a non - partisan source that they are NPOV
Ms Neera Rawat IPS, Senior Superintendent of Police, Bareilly, Uttar Pradesh, deposed before the Marad Judicial Inquiry Commission, Justice Thomas P. Joseph (reference Marad_massacre) that the Kozhikode Special Branch during her tenure as Kozhikode City Police Commissioner from March 22, 1997 to May 16 1999. She also added before the Inquiry Commission that the police had prepared confidential and authentic reports that ISI and Iran were the fund sponsors of the NDF.http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/14/stories/2005051402780700.htm. 
: Reason: The reason is already given in the previous discussion. It was clear from the media that it was a play b/w Kummanam Rajasekharan and Neera Ravath. http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2005/01-15June05-Print-Edition/011506200502.htm. So the credibility of this evidence is questioned and it is not included in the Joseph. P Commission. 
::The User dont have any authority to arbitrate that, milligazette a partisan source has presidence over governamental report. This is a dispute that need to be judged by third party that which is an NPOV. The whole idea seems out of line with wiki concept of  WP:RS .Do find the Recommendation of Marad commission . Another article added whis is reference to a report from Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA),which is headed by Hon. Minister of External Affairs Mr.Pranab Mukherjee
::: Did I put milligazette as a reference source in the document? I dont want to start a discussion of milligazette is partisan or not. I want to point out that the statement from Neera Rawat is doubtful and is not accepted by public. Even Thomas P Joseph commission didnt have any reference to such a connection to this organistion. 
::::Who is this 'Public'? State how a Governmental Report does'nt pass [WP:Verifiability]  guideline.State the line in the report where this aspect is negated. Infact commission sole main reccomendation was for a wider investigation into this with a central agency 
The NDF has been heavily criticized for recruiting the largely moderate and progressive Kerala Muslims into extremist ideologies. The organization, while superficially a "Human Rights Group", has attracted numerous Islamic Fundamentalists to their ranks, and, as such, stand compared to several more well-known militant Islamist groups such as Lashkar-e-Toiba, Hizbul Mujahideen and others.
: Reason: You are arguing that apple is same as orenges. The author's references are already being questioned many times in different articles. 
::Come to point with respect to wikipedia rules for entry, that how it is getting negated here . only wiki rules are the set of standards to be followed in editing the article
::: Wikipedia is about WP:balancing. The book dont have any such reference also. It is a fascist propoganda and was written by a fascist.
::::"written by a fascist", Wikipidea is about its guidelines , how can you arbitrate that
while following  WP:balancing, the whole article has become a source as mentioned in WP:OR'''
Haifa University political scientist David Bukay lists the NDF as a "fundamentalist and subversive group"
: Reason: You are arguing that apple is same as orenges. The author's references are already being questioned many times in different articles. 
::Come to wikipedia rules , that how it is getting negated here . only wiki rules are the set of standards to be followed in editing the article
::: Wikipedia is about WP:balancing. The book dont have any such reference also. It is a fascist propoganda and was written by a fascist.
 
::::'"written by a fascist", Wikipidea is about its guidelines , how can you arbitrate that
while following  WP:balancing, the whole article has become a source as mentioned in WP:OR.If David Bukay (haifa uni)is fascist , that is the opinion shared by them about NDF and its supporters, so leave it to third  party dispute as per WP:DR
==== implementation of relegious code ====
The NDF is alleged to involved in pushing the Islamic Sharia code in cosmopolitan Muslim society , which itin India, an act viewed by moderate Muslims and secularists as "Talibanization".A typical case reported by media is killing Fakir Uppappa or Siddhan, killed in November for indulging in "un-Islamic spiritualism".http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/full_story.php?content_id=66573
:Reason:The source don't match with the argument here. See the previsou discussion on this matter.
::This got reported from IndianExpress  daily state here how the wiki rules are negated here
::: There is no such quotes as relegious code in this article.
:::: Technical arguement !!! . then what does it speak about .
 
A muslim was murdered in Punalur for his binding with Leftist oganization [DYFI].The media reports involving the killing of CPI(M)’s Ashraf in Punalur in Kollam district points towards this.http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/full_story.php?content_id=66573
 
:Reason:This is just a POV from .
::This got reported from IndianExpress  daily please state here how this happened to be a POV
::: Pinarai's statements have marxist and communist propoganda behind it. It is quite natural to have polical such statements from diffent parties and they are not suitable to publish in wiki.
::::What is suitable to publish in WIKI? only NDF manifesto!!! .You are just another partisan source , suggest to leave this to WP:DR
Allegation of targeting the liberals in the community: those who do not strictly follow
Islamic laws like abstaining from liquor, fasting during Ramadan and
wearing the makhna or the purdah.http://www.insaf.net/pipermail/sacw_insaf.net/1999/000008.html
:Reason:This is already been discussed before. It is just a discussion forum with different POV of people, and cannot be accepted as reliable source.
:: Is milligazette accepted as reliable source
::: Are you saying, if somebody can add non-sense, you will add some nonsense??. So please remove it from the article.
Islamism 
: Reason:There is no reference either from NDF or from reliable sources that it promote Islamism
:: Article quoted from WashingtonPost is quoted there, defenitely is is as per WP:Verifiability , explain how this is a POV. What is reliable source for you please explain.  
"Mediapersons have been misled by Intelligence authorities to believe that the NDF was a militant organisation. They had said the same thing about Congress during the freedom struggle." 
::The user is requested to substantitiate ,how the above quoted entry stated in the article happens to be WP:NPOV with repect to the WP:Verifiability policy
::: The author is doubtful and is being under scrutiny of many intelligence agencies for his spy work. He is being arrested by diffenent counties like Zimbabway for his spy work. So it is doubtful also.
::::Wiki is not an area for 'Original Research' , Come with a 'reliable sources' as you had asked earlier the other party for this
And over all what is your concept regarding  WP:NPOV
::: Hello, Liberal Democrat and Herbert Von Karajan, See my comments above. Please respect Balancing and WP:NPOV before adding such vandals in the article. -- Sundaram7 14:37, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are also asked to do the same ,Umpteen time I'm suggesting to go by guidelines . If you had dispute take it as per Wiki guidline WP:DR
"activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre"
It is stated in the article so referring to Thomas P. Joseph commission report. Afer reading the complete report it is found that there is no such reference in Joseph P Commission Report. The complete report is here in PDF format: . This really helped me to point out that the writer is trying to push his POV into the article.
Kottakkal Police station attack:
Only Sangh Parivar and Marxist party say so. All the mainstream media in Kerala has evaluated this as attack from police and the photos of damaged cars and vehicles of the N D F activists were shown in next day's news papers. Refer to same day's news papers.
Pakistan MP's visit row:
Only Sangh Parivar found something wrong in this visit. Infact it was a accusation only. Even if it is a fact, what is wrong in it? Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal is a political party and they are not part of ISI or banned Pakistani extremist movements. If one of Indian minister visit pakistan and their people, do a pakistani say that it is against Pakistani Nationalism. It is in fact will be evaluated to enrich the relations between two neighboring countries. 
Additional Views:
This portion is a pure vandal. The reference is from a sangh parivar ideologist. 
Islamic Sevak Sangh and SIMI links:
This is also an accusation. The great evidence is that these organizations have their own existence. No SIMI workers are there in NDF. But there are NDF workers who were previously working for different movements like SIMI, PDP, IUML, DYFI; and later on they found that they should work for Indian minority movement like NDF and leave their terrorist and rightwing lines. 
You can see similar situations in other organizations also. For example, K T jaleel and Abdussamad Samadani were previously working for SIMI and they later disagreed with the extremist thoughts and jointed in mainstream movements of IUML.
 Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala:
There are many organizations, political parties in Kerala. But only sangh parivar declares that N D F has ISI links. They are trying to push these views using mainstream media. example is . But they are not able to bring single evidence towards it. Once they reported an incident in Baypore that an ISI ship in Baypore and police has caught the accused. But when they suspects were in quested, it found that they were from Indian Army!!.
most of the points mentioned bellow appears as Original Research done by Sundaram7
quite interesting to see your enthusiasm !!'''
* On the incident of Marad, it is declared by I D Swami, who was the cabinet minister that ISI is behind the killing. He was from BJP and was activist of RSS. 
* During Marad inquests, Neera Rawas declared that she has enough evidence that NDF has links with ISI, which were not put on the desk. But it is later found that the report that she was referring to was the report that Kummanam Rajasekharan submitted to her when she was I G in Calicut. This was pointed out to her and she said "Confidential Matters". There might be a confidential agreement b/w her and HIV leader. From this it is clear that she is learned towards the Sangh Parivar. 
* NDF is running a case against Neera Rawat's declarations. For them Neera Rawat's statement is against Indian Nationalism. She didn't report such an activity from ISI to the government on time. ISI is a secret agency which is trying to ruin the Integrity of Indian nation. She either telling a lie or she is working against the Nationalism of India. 
* Amar Bakhshi & P Koya: Amar, who is the author of washington post, is arrested different times for his CIA links. He works for American and Zionist interests. Sangh parivar is behind P. Koya for long time. They have tried to trap him for a meaningless argument on one of his books and claiming that it is against Indian interests. But later the court has rejected this arguments .
--- Sundaram7 12:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fighting Vandalism 

message: The NDF is alleged to involved in pushing the Islamic Sharia code in cosmopolitan Muslim society , which itin India, an act viewed by moderate Muslims and secularists as "Talibanization".A typical case reported by media is killing Fakir Uppappa or Siddhan, killed in November for indulging in "un-Islamic spiritualism".http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/full_story.php?content_id=66573
</strike>
:Reason:The source don't match with the argument here. See the previsou discussion on this matter.
::This got reported from IndianExpress  daily state here how the wiki rules are negated here
::: There is no such quotes as relegious code in this article.
:::: Technical arguement !!! . then what does it speak about .
 
A muslim was murdered in Punalur for his binding with Leftist oganization [DYFI].The media reports involving the killing of CPI(M)’s Ashraf in Punalur in Kollam district points towards this.http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/full_story.php?content_id=66573
 
:Reason:This is just a POV from .
::This got reported from IndianExpress  daily please state here how this happened to be a POV
::: Pinarai's statements have marxist and communist propoganda behind it. It is quite natural to have polical such statements from diffent parties and they are not suitable to publish in wiki.
::::What is suitable to publish in WIKI? only NDF manifesto!!! .You are just another partisan source , suggest to leave this to WP:DR
Allegation of targeting the liberals in the community: those who do not strictly follow
Islamic laws like abstaining from liquor, fasting during Ramadan and
wearing the makhna or the purdah.http://www.insaf.net/pipermail/sacw_insaf.net/1999/000008.html
:Reason:This is already been discussed before. It is just a discussion forum with different POV of people, and cannot be accepted as reliable source.
:: Is milligazette accepted as reliable source
::: Are you saying, if somebody can add non-sense, you will add some nonsense??. So please remove it from the article.
Islamism 
: Reason:There is no reference either from NDF or from reliable sources that it promote Islamism
:: Article quoted from WashingtonPost is quoted there, defenitely is is as per WP:Verifiability , explain how this is a POV. What is reliable source for you please explain.  
"Mediapersons have been misled by Intelligence authorities to believe that the NDF was a militant organisation. They had said the same thing about Congress during the freedom struggle." 
::The user is requested to substantitiate ,how the above quoted entry stated in the article happens to be WP:NPOV with repect to the WP:Verifiability policy
::: The author is doubtful and is being under scrutiny of many intelligence agencies for his spy work. He is being arrested by diffenent counties like Zimbabway for his spy work. So it is doubtful also.
::::Wiki is not an area for 'Original Research' , Come with a 'reliable sources' as you had asked earlier the other party for this
And over all what is your concept regarding  WP:NPOV
::: Hello, Liberal Democrat and Herbert Von Karajan, See my comments above. Please respect Balancing and WP:NPOV before adding such vandals in the article. -- Sundaram7 14:37, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are also asked to do the same ,Umpteen time I'm suggesting to go by guidelines . If you had dispute take it as per Wiki guidline WP:DR
"activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre"
It is stated in the article so referring to Thomas P. Joseph commission report. Afer reading the complete report it is found that there is no such reference in Joseph P Commission Report. The complete report is here in PDF format: . This really helped me to point out that the writer is trying to push his POV into the article.
Kottakkal Police station attack:
Only Sangh Parivar and Marxist party say so. All the mainstream media in Kerala has evaluated this as attack from police and the photos of damaged cars and vehicles of the N D F activists were shown in next day's news papers. Refer to same day's news papers.
Pakistan MP's visit row:
Only Sangh Parivar found something wrong in this visit. Infact it was a accusation only. Even if it is a fact, what is wrong in it? Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal is a political party and they are not part of ISI or banned Pakistani extremist movements. If one of Indian minister visit pakistan and their people, do a pakistani say that it is against Pakistani Nationalism. It is in fact will be evaluated to enrich the relations between two neighboring countries. 
Additional Views:
This portion is a pure vandal. The reference is from a sangh parivar ideologist. 
Islamic Sevak Sangh and SIMI links:
This is also an accusation. The great evidence is that these organizations have their own existence. No SIMI workers are there in NDF. But there are NDF workers who were previously working for different movements like SIMI, PDP, IUML, DYFI; and later on they found that they should work for Indian minority movement like NDF and leave their terrorist and rightwing lines. 
You can see similar situations in other organizations also. For example, K T jaleel and Abdussamad Samadani were previously working for SIMI and they later disagreed with the extremist thoughts and jointed in mainstream movements of IUML.
 Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala:
There are many organizations, political parties in Kerala. But only sangh parivar declares that N D F has ISI links. They are trying to push these views using mainstream media. example is . But they are not able to bring single evidence towards it. Once they reported an incident in Baypore that an ISI ship in Baypore and police has caught the accused. But when they suspects were in quested, it found that they were from Indian Army!!.
most of the points mentioned bellow appears as Original Research done by Sundaram7
quite interesting to see your enthusiasm !!'''
* On the incident of Marad, it is declared by I D Swami, who was the cabinet minister that ISI is behind the killing. He was from BJP and was activist of RSS. 
* During Marad inquests, Neera Rawas declared that she has enough evidence that NDF has links with ISI, which were not put on the desk. But it is later found that the report that she was referring to was the report that Kummanam Rajasekharan submitted to her when she was I G in Calicut. This was pointed out to her and she said "Confidential Matters". There might be a confidential agreement b/w her and HIV leader. From this it is clear that she is learned towards the Sangh Parivar. 
* NDF is running a case against Neera Rawat's declarations. For them Neera Rawat's statement is against Indian Nationalism. She didn't report such an activity from ISI to the government on time. ISI is a secret agency which is trying to ruin the Integrity of Indian nation. She either telling a lie or she is working against the Nationalism of India. 
* Amar Bakhshi & P Koya: Amar, who is the author of washington post, is arrested different times for his CIA links. He works for American and Zionist interests. Sangh parivar is behind P. Koya for long time. They have tried to trap him for a meaningless argument on one of his books and claiming that it is against Indian interests. But later the court has rejected this arguments .
--- Sundaram7 12:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  implementation of relegious code 

message: The User Sundaram 7 is requested to come with mainstream and governmental sources to prove his point like the other editors. Wiki is about verifiability, on what Jurisdiction/powers you can comment on various agencies? ,this is not a blog or space alloted for NDF. It seems you are annoyed about criticism from the very beggining as seen in this page. Come with solid proofs not with your own hypothesis as seen stated through out these page.You can claim the whole media & ruling establishments are biased but that cant reflect in Wiki as there are principles laid out for entries here .--212.8.174.135 13:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The biggest proof is the The Joseph.P Tomas commission report. The editor has put a big lie about it in the article. -- Sundaram7 12:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patronisation 

message: user:Thegoldenageoftheflyingspaghettimonster is trying to help user:liberal Democrat removing my edits even in discussions. see. This proves that they are related and work for the banned user user:Hkelkar. 
Why you guys fear to discuss the facts. This document is totally learned towards Sangh Parivar views. Not balanced at all. !!  -- Sundaram7 11:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attacks from HVK pusher 

message: As reports denote Internet has become the largest playgound for Jihadi activists,in this article also the same overtone are seen under the guise of Sundaram7/198.36.32.21 .  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahyadhri (talk • contribs) 07:38, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trying to Push Jihadi Propaganda 

message: "activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre"
It is stated in the article so referring to Thomas P. Joseph commission report. Afer reading the complete report it is found that there is no such reference in Joseph P Commission Report. The complete report is here in PDF format: . This really helped me to point out that the writer is trying to push his POV into the article.
Kottakkal Police station attack:
Only Sangh Parivar and Marxist party say so. All the mainstream media in Kerala has evaluated this as attack from police and the photos of damaged cars and vehicles of the N D F activists were shown in next day's news papers. Refer to same day's news papers.
Pakistan MP's visit row:
Only Sangh Parivar found something wrong in this visit. Infact it was a accusation only. Even if it is a fact, what is wrong in it? Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal is a political party and they are not part of ISI or banned Pakistani extremist movements. If one of Indian minister visit pakistan and their people, do a pakistani say that it is against Pakistani Nationalism. It is in fact will be evaluated to enrich the relations between two neighboring countries. 
Additional Views:
This portion is a pure vandal. The reference is from a sangh parivar ideologist. 
Islamic Sevak Sangh and SIMI links:
This is also an accusation. The great evidence is that these organizations have their own existence. No SIMI workers are there in NDF. But there are NDF workers who were previously working for different movements like SIMI, PDP, IUML, DYFI; and later on they found that they should work for Indian minority movement like NDF and leave their terrorist and rightwing lines. 
You can see similar situations in other organizations also. For example, K T jaleel and Abdussamad Samadani were previously working for SIMI and they later disagreed with the extremist thoughts and jointed in mainstream movements of IUML.
 Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala:
There are many organizations, political parties in Kerala. But only sangh parivar declares that N D F has ISI links. They are trying to push these views using mainstream media. example is . But they are not able to bring single evidence towards it. Once they reported an incident in Baypore that an ISI ship in Baypore and police has caught the accused. But when they suspects were in quested, it found that they were from Indian Army!!.
* On the incident of Marad, it is declared by I D Swami, who was the cabinet minister that ISI is behind the killing. He was from BJP and was activist of RSS. 
* During Marad inquests, Neera Rawas declared that she has enough evidence that NDF has links with ISI, which were not put on the desk. But it is later found that the report that she was referring to was the report that Kummanam Rajasekharan submitted to her when she was I G in Calicut. This was pointed out to her and she said "Confidential Matters". There might be a confidential agreement b/w her and HIV leader. From this it is clear that she is learned towards the Sangh Parivar. 
* NDF is running a case against Neera Rawat's declarations. For them Neera Rawat's statement is against Indian Nationalism. She didn't report such an activity from ISI to the government on time. ISI is a secret agency which is trying to ruin the Integrity of Indian nation. She either telling a lie or she is working against the Nationalism of India. 
* Amar Bakhshi & P Koya: Amar, who is the author of washington post, is arrested different times for his CIA links. He works for American and Zionist interests. Sangh parivar is behind P. Koya for long time. They have tried to trap him for a meaningless argument on one of his books and claiming that it is against Indian interests. But later the court has rejected this arguments . --- Sundaram7 12:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the document in references, NDF is refered as "Islamic organization" and the editor has changed it as "Islamist Militant". This is a POV. --- Sundaram7 13:01, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hmm... come on, please dont remove my edits from discussion page. Why you even hate to discuss. My whole point is that only Sangh Parivar has the views that I have highlighted. Please prove otherwise. -- Sundaram7 12:46, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sangh Parivar Views : "Sanghified" article 

message: Newsweek is an WP:RS and this quote is indicative of the NDF stand.Bakaman 20:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Newsweek

message: Be aware that the vandal specialist Hkelkar and his sockpuppets along with user:Eagerbeaver434 are back with their supporters to attack on this article. Please help to remove this vandalisation. His supporters are just make Edits without even discussing in the discussion page!.  ---- Sundaram7 11:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hkelkar and his Supporters are back on this article! 

message: What ever written about the article had been discussed umpteen times as visible in discussion page. Wikipedia is not the right place to space conspiracy theories. All the entries made had been backed by mainstream media references as per Wiki:RS policy, while the Saudi Arabian contrarian editor
is reiterating theories on regular intervals questing to prove the credibility of mainstream medias such as Washington Post.--Sahyadhri (talk) 11:26, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia is not the right place to space conspiracy theories 

message: The user User:Headmast ship had reverted quite a lot of changes without any explanation. After my first revert, he again repeated a complete revert to bring a minor change. I am reverting this back because no explanation for revert had been given to counter my arguments - especially removal of POV weasel words and OR sentences.
I am retaining the word "militant" in the intro as a citation from Frontline had been given. Other changes are not justified
Seeing the lack of existence of any other contributions by User:Headmast ship, I suspect he is a sockpuppet. If this behaviour is repeated, I will consider raising the issue again to a moderator with the identities of sockpuppets  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zencv (talk • contribs) 14:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disruptive edits by [[User:Headmast ship]]

message: Quite a lot of clean up done by me to remove weasel words had been removed by User: B Nambiar and his suspected sockpuppet.
You(and I) may disagree with NDF, but please stop vandalising  - Wiki is for objective facts, not for bringing your POV. eg: The sentences like "NDF had been heavily criticized.." and "though NDF publicly denies..." etc. are inappropriate use of weasel words to bring biased POV and are nor referenced(if I am wrong, please provide where exactly).  
The above users continuously vandalises and does nothing to improve the overall quality of the articles..Appropriate sockpuppet alerts are being raised to Wiki moderators.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zencv (talk • contribs) 10:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, I agree with you it is highly POV pushing, I reverted his vandalism. --Tomb of the Unknown Warrior tomb 11:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disruptive edits by [[User:B Nambiar]]

message: It strikes me that there are some assertions made on this page that are not adequately sourced (such as calling the group "extremist" in the lead), and until such time as the article is cleaned up to address these concerns, the tags I placed should stay. — e. ripley\talk 11:59, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV and expert tags 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: Under "History", this part (and maybe more) is poorly sourced.
---
In 2012, the NDF organized various communal movements, demonstrations, rallies and other strikes against police brutality and government misconduct, claiming the right to work more in government employment. Reservations and allowances were implemented for Muslims.
In 2021, the NDF was also involved in the hijab controversy in Kerala and Tamil Nadu by providing shelter, food and drink for those involved.
---
The statements refer to events of 2012 and 2021, but the cited sources date to 2006 and 2004. The source cited for the event supposedly dating to 2021 is also utterly irrelevant, describing relief activities in the aftermath of a natural disaster, and not having anything to do with any "hijab controversy".
DsouzaSohan (talk) 05:15, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference dating and relevance