Talk:List of Antarctic and subantarctic islands

message: I found that there is List of islands of Antarctica and the Southern Ocean article, too. Both articles exist for a long time. I think that this name is better. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 04:34, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I just merged the two articles. I thought that the title of this article here was the better title than the other one (List of islands of Antarctica and the Southern Ocean). So I decided to keep this article here and not the other one. -- Citylover 18:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This article/list is turning into a fabulous resource. Good work! Pcb21| Pete 12:03, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging 

message: 1. There is no List of antarctic islands; 2. There are no a lot of islands; 3. Some of island groups has islands in both categories. If list expands a lot, better way to classify them is by island groups. --Millosh 00:52, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just to note move 

message: Below is a voting about which islands are located south enough to be considered as sub-antarctic and which islands are located too much in the north. The islands are listed from north to south. A possible further idea of this discussion here might also be to create a List of antarctic and sub-antarctic islands by latitude, where all islands are listed from north to south or vice-versa:
Maybe I have forgotten some islands. Here and here are two maps where you can search for more islands I did not find:
=== Islands located north of 37° south ===
North of Tristan da Cunha (37° 7'), there is a huge latitudinal gap, where not a single island is located whithin. Only at 33° 38', the Juan Fernández Islands follow, which seem to be already partially subtropical. Then, a smaller latitudinal gap of 2° 5' follows further north between the Juan Fernández Islands and Lord Howe Island. Between Lord Howe Island and the Kermadec Islands, there is another latitudinal gap of 2° 18', the last big latitudinal gap. Still further in the north, islands and groups of islands follow within considerably short latitudinal distances without any major latitudinal gap anymore, all of them becoming probably less sub-antarctic and gradually more temperate and then subtropical. 
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==== Islands located north of 23° 54' ====
North of 23° 54' (where Oeno Island, the northernmost of the Pitcairn Islands is located) follows a bunch of other islands, first the southernmost of the Austral Islands (except of the Bass Islands, which are located far off in the south, see there), then the Gambier Islands, then again some of the Austral Islands and then already the southernmost islands of the Tuamotus (all these islands belong to French Polynesia). Even further up in the north, the northernmost of the Austral Islands and the whole bunch of the Tuamotus and the whole bunch of other islands belonging to various countries in the Pacific Ocean (beginning with the southernmost islands of Tonga) would follow.
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Ata Island () (one of the southernmost islands of Tonga) and the Minerva Reefs () (there might be still approximately two other geographical features more (like a reef, an islet or an island) in this area. If you have a close/enlarged look at the map at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Tonga.jpg, two different features in the area of the Minerva Reefs are visible and there might even exist a very isolated feature more, probably also belonging to Tonga, located approximately at .)
Mangareva () (and its surrounding islands Taravai (), Aukena () and Akamaru ()) (Gambier Islands, French Polynesia)
Morane () (located in the Gambier Islands or already in the extreme south of the Tuamotus, French Polynesia)
Temoe () (Gambier Islands, French Polynesia)
Rurutu () and Rimatara () (both islands are integral parts of the Austral Islands, French Polynesia)
Tropic of Capricorn 23° 26' 22" south
Tubuai () and Raivavae () (both are the two southernmost islands of the Austral Islands (French Polynesia) and still being an integral part of the Austral Islands (unlike the Bass Islands, see below))
*Support
** ...
*Oppose
** No way. This is bloody Oceania. --208.51.23.195 10:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vote on sub-antarctic islands 

message: North of Tristan da Cunha (37° 7'), there is a huge latitudinal gap, where not a single island is located whithin. Only at 33° 38', the Juan Fernández Islands follow, which seem to be already partially subtropical. Then, a smaller latitudinal gap of 2° 5' follows further north between the Juan Fernández Islands and Lord Howe Island. Between Lord Howe Island and the Kermadec Islands, there is another latitudinal gap of 2° 18', the last big latitudinal gap. Still further in the north, islands and groups of islands follow within considerably short latitudinal distances without any major latitudinal gap anymore, all of them becoming probably less sub-antarctic and gradually more temperate and then subtropical. 
----
==== Islands located north of 23° 54' ====
North of 23° 54' (where Oeno Island, the northernmost of the Pitcairn Islands is located) follows a bunch of other islands, first the southernmost of the Austral Islands (except of the Bass Islands, which are located far off in the south, see there), then the Gambier Islands, then again some of the Austral Islands and then already the southernmost islands of the Tuamotus (all these islands belong to French Polynesia). Even further up in the north, the northernmost of the Austral Islands and the whole bunch of the Tuamotus and the whole bunch of other islands belonging to various countries in the Pacific Ocean (beginning with the southernmost islands of Tonga) would follow.
----
Ata Island () (one of the southernmost islands of Tonga) and the Minerva Reefs () (there might be still approximately two other geographical features more (like a reef, an islet or an island) in this area. If you have a close/enlarged look at the map at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Tonga.jpg, two different features in the area of the Minerva Reefs are visible and there might even exist a very isolated feature more, probably also belonging to Tonga, located approximately at .)
Mangareva () (and its surrounding islands Taravai (), Aukena () and Akamaru ()) (Gambier Islands, French Polynesia)
Morane () (located in the Gambier Islands or already in the extreme south of the Tuamotus, French Polynesia)
Temoe () (Gambier Islands, French Polynesia)
Rurutu () and Rimatara () (both islands are integral parts of the Austral Islands, French Polynesia)
Tropic of Capricorn 23° 26' 22" south
Tubuai () and Raivavae () (both are the two southernmost islands of the Austral Islands (French Polynesia) and still being an integral part of the Austral Islands (unlike the Bass Islands, see below))
*Support
** ...
*Oppose
** No way. This is bloody Oceania. --208.51.23.195 10:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located north of 37&deg; south 

message: North of 23° 54' (where Oeno Island, the northernmost of the Pitcairn Islands is located) follows a bunch of other islands, first the southernmost of the Austral Islands (except of the Bass Islands, which are located far off in the south, see there), then the Gambier Islands, then again some of the Austral Islands and then already the southernmost islands of the Tuamotus (all these islands belong to French Polynesia). Even further up in the north, the northernmost of the Austral Islands and the whole bunch of the Tuamotus and the whole bunch of other islands belonging to various countries in the Pacific Ocean (beginning with the southernmost islands of Tonga) would follow.
----
Ata Island () (one of the southernmost islands of Tonga) and the Minerva Reefs () (there might be still approximately two other geographical features more (like a reef, an islet or an island) in this area. If you have a close/enlarged look at the map at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Tonga.jpg, two different features in the area of the Minerva Reefs are visible and there might even exist a very isolated feature more, probably also belonging to Tonga, located approximately at .)
Mangareva () (and its surrounding islands Taravai (), Aukena () and Akamaru ()) (Gambier Islands, French Polynesia)
Morane () (located in the Gambier Islands or already in the extreme south of the Tuamotus, French Polynesia)
Temoe () (Gambier Islands, French Polynesia)
Rurutu () and Rimatara () (both islands are integral parts of the Austral Islands, French Polynesia)
Tropic of Capricorn 23° 26' 22" south
Tubuai () and Raivavae () (both are the two southernmost islands of the Austral Islands (French Polynesia) and still being an integral part of the Austral Islands (unlike the Bass Islands, see below))
*Support
** ...
*Oppose
** No way. This is bloody Oceania. --208.51.23.195 10:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located north of 23&deg; 54' 

message: Between 23° 54' and 26° south, only the Pitcairn Islands are located, whose latitude varies significantly within several degrees.
----
The Pitcairn Islands
Pitcairn Islands as a group of islands ()
* Pitcairn Island (main island) ()
* Henderson Island ()
* Ducie Island ()
* Oeno Island and its associated islands
** Oeno Island ()
** Sandy Island ()
*Support
** ...
*Oppose
** Not a bloody chance these are "sub-antarctic." Oceania, again. --208.51.23.195 10:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located between 23&deg; 54' and 26&deg; south 

message: Several islands, all of them in the Pacific Ocean, are located between 26° and 28°, followed by a small latitudinal gap of 1° between the Bass Islands and Norfolk Island.
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The Desventuradas Islands
Desventuradas Islands ('Unfortunate Islands')
* Isla San Félix and its surrounding islets
** Isla San Félix ()
** Islote Gonzalez or Isla Gonzales ()
** Roca Catedral ()
* Isla (de) San Ambrosio ()
*Support
** ...
*Oppose
** Nyet. --208.51.23.195 10:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located between 26&deg; and 29&deg; south 

message: Between Marotiri, the southernmost of the islands still belonging to French Polynesia and Norfolk Island, an island off Australia lies a small, but still distinctive longitudinal gap of 1° 6'.
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Norfolk Island () and Philip Island ()
*Support
** ...
*Oppose
** Considered part of Australia, inhabited, and actually votes as part of NSW. No.--208.51.23.195 10:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located between 29&deg; and 31&deg; south 

message: Between the Kermadec Islands and Lord Howe Island, there is a distinctive latitudinal gap of 2° 18', the last latitudinal gap that big.
----
Lord Howe Island ()
*Support
** ...
*Oppose
** Nope. --208.51.23.195 10:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located between 31&deg; and 37&deg; south 

message: Notice the huge latitudinal gap of 3° 28' between the Juan Fernández Islands (33° 38') and Tristan da Cunha (37° 7'), maybe here could also be the northern border of sub-antarctic islands. -- Citylover 09:46, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located between 37&deg; and 41&deg; south 

message: Notice the big gap in latitude (especially when the Chatham Islands are ignored) between Gough Island and the Crozet Islands, maybe here could also be the northern border of sub-antarctic islands. -- Citylover 09:46, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located between 41&deg; and 53&deg; south 

message: The border could also be here. Geographical features further up in the north are not featured in the USGS Antarctic Gazetteer anymore. -- Citylover 10:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located between 53&deg; and 60&deg; south 

message: All islands north of 60° south (see above) belong to a country (alhtough they might still be disputed like for example the Falkland Islands). All islands south of 60° (see below) are under the Antarctic Treaty System.
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The South Orkney Islands () (ice/glacier status ... ? The South Orkney Islands are part of the USGS Antarctic Gazetteer) are sub-antarctic islands:
*Support
** I support it because their location is really in the south, so they are already sub-antarctic islands just because of their location. -- Citylover 09:46, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands located south of 60&deg; south 

message: There appears to be some duplication in this list e.g. Saint Paul Island is here twice. Needs looking through by someone with more knowledge of the Antarctic than me SP-KP 19:56, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: I think the break between "sub-antarctic" and "non-antarctic" islands is around the 50° S benchmark. But that's where it gets tricky. The Falkland_Islands may be slightly south of Heard_Island, but the former can be used for pastureland, while the latter is tundra and ice with a volcano sticking out of it. (The Falklands is also generally considerd an island off the coast of South America, rather than Antarctica.) So I'd include "Heard" as sub-antarctic at least, but wouldn't count the Falklands. 
My thinking is that any benchmark for "sub-antarctic" or "antarctic" should be done on climatic grounds. Permanent ice? definitely. Trees? Immediate disqualification. A lot of this has to do with the Antarctic_Convergence: "where the cold, northward-flowing Antarctic waters sink beneath the relatively warmer waters of the sub-Antarctic." It makes a big difference to climate. Basically, it's a boundrary between the land strongly influenced by Anctarctica, and land less so. Islands south or near the boundary should be made "sub-anctartic" or "anctarctic" automatically. The Falklands lie North, which is a strike against it. Heard lies south, so count it in.
Mind you, I think we should also exclude all islands north of 45° S on principle. Otherwise, we'll be counting  the South_Island of New Zealand and Tasmania as "sub-antarctic". That seems silly to me.
--Tphcm 15:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah, I mean latitude isn't the be all and end all but you'd want to have a very good reason for excluding the Falklands but including Tristan de Cunha (some 1500 km to the north of the Falklands). That's how the article stands at present.Ordinary Person (talk) 13:43, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latitude is not the best benchmark. 

message: The above discussion would look more like original research with arguments in support of one definition or another, rather than adduced information from referenced sources (as the Wikipedian way is supposed to be, no?).
Here follows a brief comment based on my extensive record of Antarctic research -- both academic and field work -- together with the reference to an authoritative source.
(1)  All the islands south of 60 degrees south latitude (not the Antarctic Circle!) are generally regarded as Antarctic rather than Subantarctic.  (This includes in particular the South Orkneys, the South Shetlands, and numerous other islands in the Antarctic Peninsula area as well as few islands off Eastern Antarctica north of the Antarctic Circle.)
(2)  The Subantarctic islands.
(a)  In a narrower sense these include the islands situated on or south of the Antarctic Convergence but north of 60 degrees south latitude:
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands (Britain);
Bouvet Island / Bouvetøya (Norway);
Heard and McDonald Islands (Australia); and
Kerguelen (France).
(b)  In a wider sense the Subantarctic islands include also (see the reference source below) the following islands situated north of the Antarctic Convergence (and thus not belonging to the world geographical region of Antarctica):
Prince Edward Islands (South Africa);
Îles Crozet (France);
Île Amsterdam & Île St.-Paul (France);
Macquarie Island (Australia);
Tristan da Cunha Islands (Britain);
Gough Island (Britain);
Campbell Island (New Zealand);
Auckland Islands (New Zealand);
Bounty Islands (New Zealand);
Antipodes Islands (New Zealand);
Snares Islands (New Zealand);
Diego Ramirez Archipelago (Chile).
The Falkland Islands are out of the question; same for other southern islands such as Hoste, Navarino, Horn, Estados etc. located next south or east of Tierra del Fuego.
Reference:
P.R. Dingwall, Ed. (1995), Progress in Conservation of the Subantarctic Islands, IUCN, Gland and Cambridge, xvi+225pp.  Apcbg 13:10, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referenced established classification 

message: If the Falklands can appear on this list, why not Tierra del Fuego?--MacRusgail 16:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tierra del Fuego 

message: The Wikipedia article on this island says it is 3300 km2. I don´t know if this is correct, but it is certainly larger than 700 km2, which is your estimate.Antipoeten 09:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have noted on the talk page of Latady Island that the larger area given in that article is more plausible, at least if Google Maps can be trusted in this case. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 16:35, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latady Island 

message: Why is it not on this page? There is a Wikipedia article about it (Bratina_Island,_Antarctica).
: Ljgua124 (talk) 23:26, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bratina Island 

message: There is no island on the given position; I'ved checked it with Google Earth. --84.176.206.38 11:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Siple Island]] 

message: So have these results been collated and action taken? 
Tristan de Cunha is still there. At 37 degrees in latitude, it is no more sub-Antarctic than Sicily is sub-Arctic.Ordinary Person (talk) 03:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vote results 

message: I'm deleting TdC and nearby islands. No one has defended its inclusion, and every defining point that people have raised indicates it is not sub-Antarctic.
North of the Antarctic Convergence? Check.
Trees? Check. (Phylica arborea)
Warm-temperate climate? Check.
GoneskyOrdinary Person (talk) 14:07, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting Tristan de Cunha 

message: Current introduction reads:
This is a List of Antarctic and sub-Antarctic islands.
    * Sub-Antarctic islands are islands in the Southern Ocean around Antarctica north of the Antarctic Circle (66° 33' 38").
    * Antarctic islands are the islands in the Southern Ocean or in the seas around Antarctica south of the Antarctic Circle.
Much of the rest of the article regards the 60 degree mark as the cut, including the table of the largest Antarctic islands, which includes several north of the AC. Maybe this intro should be revised.Ordinary Person (talk) 14:25, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The term subantarctic refers more to biological eco-systems and not to a geographic region. Islands sout of 60° S are definitely antarctic, those north of 60° S are not in the Antarctic region. --Matthiasb (talk) 13:03, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The definition used in this article should be made consistent with that in Subantarctic. Goustien (talk) 22:22, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Introduction

message: Been slowly working my way through the cleanup page for WP:ISLANDS. There are many Antarctic islands articles that have been orphaned from 2010. I've been slowly adding them to this list as appropriate in order to remove these orphan tags. PaintedCarpet (talk) 15:03, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned Antarctic island articles 

message: This is an excellent list, though it is awkward to have islands listed twice, once alphabetically and once with an archipelago.  Especially for the subantarctic islands, a sortable table with columns for island name, grouping, coordinates, sovereignty, and notes, would be more concise. -- Beland (talk) 10:09, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organization 

message: There was a  tag added to this article on Dec. 2020. Do any more experienced editors have suggestions for how we could go about addressing that in a list article like this? Are there citations we can put under references or do we need citations for every single island listed?? What source material would be good to cite? I’m happy to spend some time on this if I can be pointed in the right direction 
Chaozu42 (talk) 17:00, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  More citations needed tag 

message: When following the source for it, I could not find any reference to a "Fabulous Island" in the Auckland Islands, although all of the rest are true. I have also communicated with Citylover, who also has no idea where they got that from. As a precautionary measure, I'm going to remove that (as well as update the source link). If someone wants a nice rabbit hole to jump down, they can try to check again, in case I missed it. Bruberu (talk) 15:57, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does "Fabulous Island" actually exist?