Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Club seasons

message: Please create new discussions on the general WikiProject Football talk page. The discussions below are kept only for historical value.
First, I'd like to start reinforcing my total disappointment with those editors who discuss this initially by intentionally (as stated in the proposal discussion) do not warn the contributers to club season articles "due to possible resistancies from users who maintain such articles". I think that is disruptive, creating a separation between those editors who often access this talk and those who don't. I really hope that is not the common practice here.--ClaudioMB 15:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

message: So, with the participation of most of the contributers to club season articles, we could see if the original proposal has consensus or not. I've created a contra-proposal to show there is other ways to define this MoS.--ClaudioMB 15:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But the season articles you created don't even look like they belong in an almanac. A lot of the information seems very generic, and rather unrelated to the season at hand. - PeeJay 17:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you specify those information you are talking about? Thanks. --ClaudioMB 17:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

text: WP:NOT#STATS. --Angelo 17:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that structure and articles are "Long and sprawling lists of statistics may be confusing to readers and reduce the readability and neatness of our articles". Also, that structure and articles do not obstruct that "articles should contain sufficient explanatory text to put statistics within the article in their proper context for a general reader", it just a question of editors be aware of it and improve them. Last, those articles follow that "Infoboxes or tables should also be considered to enhance the readability of lengthy data lists.". --ClaudioMB 18:04, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So, what about FC Barcelona 2006-07 season? Your proposal is clearly inspired on what you did there, and that article is a cluttered repository for notable and non-notable statistics which often defy from the main subject. And, last but not least, where is the prose? --Angelo 18:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to say my propose is based on all articles listed here. As you can see there are some sections that are not used on FC Barcelona 2006-07 season and FC Barcelona 2007-08 season. FC Barcelona 2006-07 season was the first one I created, I haven't give any attention to it since the 2007-08 started, and yes need some improvement. I was always open for any discussion in the article's talk page. About the prose, yes, it needs some prose, I could try to do some later and I'll be very happy if someone also could contribute on that. Also, lost of club articles probably need more prose, but that doesn't make them unreadable or useless. --ClaudioMB 21:39, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Unfortunately, this is not a "deletion discussion". --Angelo 18:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Still useful here, otherwise how you expect editors understand others' point, without an explanation. If you think your argument is true, it will be not a problem to rationalize it. --ClaudioMB 18:27, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Current proposal

message: Should all club season articles be in a :Category:Football (soccer) clubs season category, like :Category:Football (soccer) clubs 2007-08 season? --ClaudioMB 15:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Category

message: Maybe creating a tag to be posted on the top of all club season articles warning about this MoS and about the possible huge consequences to the article could be a great way to warn and invite editors.--ClaudioMB 15:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: MoS tag

message: I'd like to propose the following steps to define this MoS:
1. Categorize all club season articles in order to have all article that will be affected by this MoS easy to access;
2. Warn and invite editors on all club season articles;
3. Restart this MoS discussion by moving the current proposal to a sub page;
4. Start the discussion by the defining how should be the title;
5. Discuss the structure to be used;
6. Discuss the style to be used;
7. Discuss each section or group of sections.
--ClaudioMB 16:52, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Process

message: I want to display up to 8 competitions data by using Template:Extended football squad player. 
For example: in 1994 Verdy Kawasaki season (February - December 1994), Verdy Kawasaki played #1 J.League (Domestic National League), #2 J.League Suntory Championship (National League championship play-off), #3 Emperor's Cup (Domestic Cup), #4 J.League Yamazaki Nabisco Cup (League Cup), #5 Xerox Super Cup (Domestic Super Cup), #6 Sanwa Bank Cup (J.League International Challenge), #7 Last year's Asian Club Championship and #8 Asian Club Championship (Continental Championship).
Dabbler (JPN) (talk) 11:42, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request 

message: Total column should be on the other end, not the start column of the table. Someone wants to fix that. Govvy (talk) 10:29, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The Efs start & Efs player templates are protected, so that only template editors and administrators can edit them. Have you tried opening a discussion in either of their talk pages or submitting an edit request? Deancarmeli (talk) 10:52, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that template should be used here, it's kinda limited. Govvy (talk) 10:57, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a different discussion. Deancarmeli (talk) 11:25, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't call it limited. Apps and goals are all the details we need. We wouldn't include cards, assists, etc. anyway. Nehme1499 12:53, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Regardless, the total column is still the wrong! heh. Govvy (talk) 14:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, I like it as it currently is. The total number seems more important than any of the other 3 and it is nice to have it near the name column. I would even have it highlighted, to enhance it. Deancarmeli (talk) 14:56, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Player details table 

message: I am not sure why  has tried to remove a simple format twice. It's just showing what can be done. And it doesn't violate MOS:ACCESS. Obviously a conversation would need to be opened up about it. But there is no problem with the formatting and it's on thousands of articles. Govvy (talk) 15:38, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for bringing this up on the talk page. Previous consensus has been against the use of collapsible football boxes in these articles (see here, here and here as well as this featured list nomination). The reason it violates WP:ACCESS is how screen readers process it and specifically WP:DTT. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 15:46, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you got a screen reader? I do, it doesn't have a problem. The, those posts are not consensus, and this page is a style guide, not a content dispute page. Govvy (talk) 15:51, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

text: Has there been an attempt to solve the ACCESS issues in the template? Having season results lists match the general format of those used in tournament articles is a benefit to readers; the table format is fine but loses details and has little room for important notes (such as postponements and outright cancelled fixtures). SounderBruce 05:28, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I honestly don't know. I would like to think so given it has been raised often enough but I don't know. I wouldn't know where to start with the lua modules either otherwise I'd give it a go myself. I would say though, there's no reason to not expand the table if required. The table at Argentina national football team results (2020–present) has extra columns for opposition scorers, referee etc, for example. There's also no reason to not add a row with postponement or cancellation detail (see 2022–23 Kilmarnock F.C. season#Premiership as an example). Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 08:27, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Mobile and small readers don't see any collapsable options, it's fully expanded. Access readers read all the data. Template has been flushed out for this. It houses more information in the template you want to remove. As for general tables, they are limited on information. Govvy (talk) 21:27, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: As stated above, there is nothing stopping anyone adding more information to the table should they want to. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 21:29, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  (also acceptable results format for all matches) sub heading.