Talk:The Livestock Conservancy

message: I've created a category called ALBC Conservation Priority Breeds to designate articles on breeds which are on the conservation priority list, but it seems like somehow this article should designate what priority any particular breed has. Maybe a list of breeds in each category? However, if this were to be done, maybe an article called ALBC Conservation Priority List should be created to contain information on the list. Hampshire2004 15:27, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  Lists generally are kept on a different page and referenced in the main article.  To see how this is done both ways, look at the Llama article I have been working on.  One list is still in the main article and the other is referenced. --BlindEagletalk~contribs 16:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breed list 

message: Hi Dana, these two sources might be helpful for the section on Santa Cruz sheep.  It was The Nature Conservancy who wanted them gone, not "a" nature conservancy.  Sources on the issue that might augment what you have are peer-reviewed journal articles here and here.  The National Park Service has further info on the history of sheep stuff here.  That source says the Nature Conservancy got rid of cattle, didn't mention the feral sheep thing.  There are some other news sources that state the organization led the effort to remove the sheep, here but for FA, not sure if they are good enough because they have a POV. Anyway, if this is helpful use it, but if not, no sweat.   Montanabw(talk) 19:31, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the sources. I've changed it to "the nature conservancy" instead of "a nature conservancy" - think I just misread the sources. Although the sources are quite interesting (although the farm sanctuary one is a bit hyperbolic, no?), I don't think I'm going to add more information on the breed at this point. My thought was that, to avoid the article becoming 100kb long, I would try to focus as much as possible on what the organization did to help various breeds, rather than on what happened to the breeds before the ALBC intervened. If you think this is a rather narrow-view approach let me know - it's the first organization article I've worked on and so I'm just kind of making it up as I go along. Also, if there was a specific piece of information that you were thinking to include, please let me know, as I just glanced through the sources above. Thanks for coming in with good sources to back up the info, though...always appreciated, at least by me :) Dana boomer (talk) 20:28, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me!  I just didn't know how far down the rabbit hole you'd be required to go to "prove" the organization was involved, so found as much as possible.   Montanabw(talk) 21:58, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Santa cruz sheep 

message: I'd suggest moving a lot of the CPL into its own article and doing a summary style section here, as right now the CPL overwhelms the information on the actual organization. Here's some more on the organization:
* News article from 1986
:* I can't see what new information this contains?
* NYTimes from 1986
:* I can't see the full version of this. Will ask for a full copy of it at the reference desk tomorrow.
::* Still trying to get this.
:::* Received the full version, and have added a tidbit.
* NYTimes from 1989
:* I don't even see the organization mentioned in this?
* NC newspaper from 1991
:* Looks like there is some good info on the San Clemente - I'll work on adding it tomorrow.
::* I've added in a bit on the San Clemente, as well as information on the ALBC semen bank program that I found in another ref.
* Also from 1986
:* I'm not seeing any new information here?
* This is a search from google news also
:* Will take a closer look at this tomorrow.
::* I've gone through these and didn't find anything all that exciting. Mostly they just repeat the same information (date founded, basics of what they do), give brief quotes by the director (killing off livestock breeds is bad, diversity is good) or describe a breed that is on the CPL (the ALBC considered this breed to be threatened). If there's something specific I've missed, please let me know. 
:::* Ended up requested a couple of the articles (before I posted the above) and between the two found another tidbit, which I have now added.
* 1989 story
:* Looks like there might be a couple of little tidbits here - will work on them tomorrow.
::* Added in a couple of tidbits.
* 2000 news story
:* Has some good information on the Wilbur-Cruce horses, and I'll add in some more tomorrow. I don't really want to get too in depth on each individual breed, though, or else it'll turn into a list of breed summaries instead of an article about the organization.
::* Upon a closer look, I don't really see anything in the article that is pertinent to the organization and not already in the article.
* 1993 newspaper article
:* Not seeing what new information this adds? The only mention of the AMBC is a two word mention of the fact that the rancher being profiled was "interested in" it. 
I'll do a bit more poking on the article also... Ealdgyth - Talk 17:28, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll do work along the lines above tomorrow, including at the very least splitting the CPL into its own section, if not its own article. I still think that once the CPL and breed programs are separated, the CPL won't need it's own article - but it's also possible that I'll be proved wrong :) Dana boomer (talk) 02:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've done some major reorganization in the article, as well as adding in some new references (both some of the above and a couple that I found - take a look and see what you think. The CPL information at this point only takes up three paragraphs; not sure if ya'll still think this is too long? I'll keep playing, but this is just a heads up that most of the major work is done for now. Dana boomer (talk) 15:06, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Another question would be if you can think of any better images to use. I just keep adding in images of various rare breeds when the text gets to wall-ish, but I keep thinking there's some cool concept that could be illustrated that I'm missing. Any ideas? Dana boomer (talk) 15:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm just lurking, but my comment is that the CPL doesn't need its own article at this point, the section seems to cover it.  I don't think the piece is too long as it sits.  For images, are there any charts or graphs that might be useful?  Other than the critters, that's all I could think of.  Montanabw(talk) 17:46, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a case of being too long but of losing focus. Malleus Fatuorum 02:00, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess I'm just still not seeing how three paragraphs on what is probably the most recognized and important program of the organization (and the one that pretty much all of the other programs are based on or aimed towards) is "losing focus". And I'm not seeing how three paragraphs could be a good basis for another article, especially since I'm not sure what else could be added to that article to expand it into a decent article and I hate creating new stubs that aren't likely to get any larger. Dana boomer (talk) 18:22, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Nah, nothing jumped terribly at me... remember I was on the road when I added these so I didn't have as much ability to finely comb things. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:33, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAC thoughts... 

message: Are there any links that could be added to a See also section? --Another Believer (Talk) 00:35, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I can think of, did you have any in mind? Oftentimes really well-written and comprehensive articles don't include such a section. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also? 

message: It looks like the ALBC has officially changed its name to "The Livestock Conservancy" and changed its website to livestockconservancy.org. (I found out via their newsletter.) In addition to the necessary updates to this FA, I bet there are many other articles that refer to the ALBC or to its website that will need updating. Steven Walling • talk  06:59, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I saw their recent newsletter announcing the change, but haven't yet had the time to move the article and make the necessary changes. Is there any way we could use AWB or something similar to search for articles that mention ALBC and change it to TLC? This article needs to be moved and all direct references to the name changed, at the very least. They've also released the 2013 changes to the CPL, so those numbers need to be updated. This is on my list of things to do, but it may be a bit before I get to it, so if anyone else wants to jump in on the name changes they are more than welcome. Dana boomer (talk) 11:55, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I took a stab at updating this article. I think I got all the uses of ALBC, generally changing to use of "Conservancy", "the organization", or simply "it". I also updated the logo. Next up may be updating all the links and references. Thankfully it looks like albc-usa.org redirects to the new website, so until we fix these all it hopefully won't give readers dead links... Another thing to do is change :Category:ALBC Conservation Priority Breeds, which will be a pain since we can't move a category. Steven Walling • talk  00:11, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't you just quietly create a new category and depopulate the old one?  Eventually it gets tossed if empty. If someone creates drama then just go to CfD. Montanabw(talk) 20:51, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I think that's the way to go. It should be no big deal. Steven Walling • talk  05:37, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not just submit it for renaming at WP:CfD in the normal way? The only problem I can see with that is choosing a suitable name, since :Category:Livestock Conservancy Conservation Priority Breeds has a faintly tautological ring to it. What about :Category:Conservation Priority Breeds of the Livestock Conservancy? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:06, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that this probably falls under the speedy renaming criteria over at CfD, so it may be able to go through that process... I like JLAN's proposed category title. Dana boomer (talk) 17:47, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever is easiest and least drama.  No one here disagrees with the need, sometimes posting at CfD attracts trolls.  I like to try a quiet approach, but this isn't my article, so just saying... and if Steven thinks it's OK to depopulate, you shouldn't get chewed for doing it, but if a move is easier, I'd say go with what works. Montanabw(talk) 22:22, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Important update  

message: It is inappropriate to remove the word "endangered" from this article, as it is in the organization's mission statement and and a formal definition from the European Environment Agency shows that it is a word widely used to describe certain rare breeds.  (There is a distinction between a rare breed and an endangered one).  Please do not keep removing this phrasing.  Yes, endangered redirects to endangered species and we all agree here that breeds and species are different things.  But per WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NOR, and WP:SYNTH, we do not go around removing words that are sourced and verifiable from articles just because we have a disagreement about their meaning.  Montanabw(talk) 23:44, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides the organization itself and the EU, see Janet Dohner's Encyclopedia of Historic and Endangered Livestock and Poultry Breeds published in 2001 by Yale University Press. "Endangered breed" is perfectly correct and in common use. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:30, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Endangered 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified