Talk:Conrad II, Holy Roman Emperor

message: Is it not incorrect to refer to Conrad II as 'Holy' Roman Emperor at this period? When I studied the high middle ages we would get heavily penalised for using Holy Roman instead of just Roman. The former title belongs to a much later part of medieval history.
: Well whoever penalised you was either Frederick Barbarosa or someone too concerned with details. In any case, the true Romans were the Byzantines, as is emphasized time again in most academic discussions. So in fact, any German emperor in the middle ages, late dark ages and rennaisance were Holy Roman emperors and definetly not Roman. Though, to some extent, the Germans settling in France and what have you did so under Western Roman Imperial decree.Tourskin 04:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I find "Holy Roman Emperor" always wrong. The empire has been called "Holy Roman". The emperor was just "of the Romans" or "Roman". The modern German terminology is "Römisch-deutsch" (Roman-German)which leaves no room for misunderstandings.--MacX85 (talk) 22:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Of course! The self-titulation `Holy Roman Emperor´ appeared first in the 12th century, so it is an anachronism to use it for Konrad II.! He was an elected `rex germanicus´ (`longobardicus et burgundicus´ as well), hence he claimed the title of `rex romanorum´ by travelling to Rome, where he got crowned by the pope. Naturally it was (back in those days) more a political problem to call himself `imperator romanorum´, since the claim of the byzantinians was an older, better founded one. The dyarchic understanding of the `porphyrogennitae´ (don´t beat me if I am wrong) in Konstantinopel was a completely different one to the granted emperorship of the papal Rome.--139.30.128.38 (talk) 08:35, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Holy Roman Emperor 

message: I edited this article to repair the grammar and sentence structure.  (An example:  Therefore, the burning of the palace should be excuse.  Conrad reject their argument, however, saying that just as a ship remains after the death of its captain, the Empire remains after the death of the Emperor.)  I think there are five paragraphs that should be deleted because they don't belong in this Conrad II article.  I didn't want to delete five paragraphs without some discussion.  I've marked my reasons for each deletion by bolding and italicizing them.
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This history on the Salian dynasty is given in the article Salian dynasty, already referenced in the second sentence of the first paragraph.  The Salian dynasty article could be added to the See Also section, if that first reference isn't enough.  Covering all this Salian background again is not necessary.
Family background
The Salian dynasty has its origins with Count Werner V of Worms, a mid-level Frankish noble from Germany's Duchy of Franconia east of the Rhine River. His son, Conrad the Red, succeeded him as Count in 941 and King Otto I of Germany (the future Holy Roman Emperor) appointed him as Duke of Lorraine in 944. He was subsequently married to Liutgarde, one of Otto's daughters, in 947 and became one of the king's closest allies. The relationship was strained, however, when Otto refused to honor a peace treaty Conrad, as Otto's representative, had conducted with the rebellious Berengar II of Italy. Conrad also resented the growing influence of Otto's brother Henry I of Bavaria, which he saw as threatening his own power. In 953 Conrad joined the king's son Liudolf in rebellion against Otto, but the rebellion was defeated and Conrad was stripped of his duchy. Conrad and Otto were soon reconciled, with Conrad fighting for Otto in the great Battle of Lechfeld in 955. Though the Germans were successful in halting the Hungarian invasions of Europe, Conrad lost his life in the battle. Conrad was succeed as Count of Worms in 956 by his son Otto of Worms, a grandson of Otto I. Sometime between 965 and 970 Otto of Worms' oldest son, Henry of Speyer, was born. Little is known of his life as he died the age of 20 between 985 and 990. 
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This history on Otto II and Otto III is given in the articles Otto II, Holy Roman Emperor and Otto III, Holy Roman Emperor and doesn't specifically relate to Conrad II.  The Otto articles could be added to the See Also section.
In 978 Emperor Otto II appointed his nephew Otto of Worms as Duke of Carinthia after deposing the rebellious Duke Henry I of Carinthia during the War of the Three Henries. Upon receiving the ducal title, however, Otto lost his position at Worms, which was given to Bishop Hildebald, Otto II's imperial chancellor. When Otto II died suddenly in 983, his infant son Otto III succeeded him, with his mother Theophanu serving as regent. Theophanu sought to reconcile the imperial house with Henry I, restoring him as Duke of Carinthia in 985, with Otto of Worms allowed to regain his ancestral position as Count of Worms. However, Otto was allowed to style himself "Duke of Worms" and his original territory was expanded so as not to diminish his rank. Otto of Worms remained loyal to the new Emperor, receiving rulership of the March of Verona in 955, though the actual Duchy of Carinthia passed to Henry IV of Bavaria. In 996, Otto III appointed Otto of Worms's son Bruno as Pope Gregory V. When Emperor Otto III died in 1002, both Otto of Worms, Conrad the Elder's grandfather, and Henry IV were candidates for election as King of Germany. In a compromise, Otto withdrew and received the Duchy of Carinthia from the newly elected Henry IV, who ruled as Henry II of Germany, in return. As a result, Otto of Worms renounced his holdings in Worms to Bishop Burchard of Worms, a long-time political rival. Buchard assumed care for Conrad, providing his education and upbringing by 1000.
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The following paragraph either needs to be rewritten or deleted.  I couldn't figure out what the author was trying to say.  Conrad the Younger was placed in which Conrad's care?  This paragraph should only be in this article if Conrad the Younger was placed in Conrad II's care.  Anything else belongs in another article.
After the early death of his uncle Duke Conrad I of Carinthia, the elder Conrad's infant son, Conrad the Younger, was named Count of Worms by Emperor Henry II while the Duchy of Carinthia passed to Adalbero of Eppenstein due to Conrad the Younger's infancy. Conrad the Younger was placed in Conrad's care.
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Most of the information in Relations with Eastern Europe, Bohemia has already been presented in the Relations with Poland, War with Mieszko and Treaty of Merseburg sections.  The information in the first five sentences of Relations with Eastern Europe, Bohemia does not appear in Relations with Poland, War with Mieszko or Treaty of Merseburg, but I don't see its relevance.  Most of the Mieszko IIConrad II interactions are repeated, and shouldn't be.  In the second paragraph below, there's only one sentence information that pertains to Conrad II:  Bretislaus was then installed as the new Duke of Bohemia by Conrad.  I think the whole section Bohemia should be deleted, and the subsequent section Hungary should be retitled Relations with Hungary.  The Duchy of Bohemia article could be added to See Also.
Relations with Eastern Europe
Bohemia
The Duchy of Bohemia was incorporated into the Holy Roman Empire in 1004 during the German-Polish Wars (1002-1018). Emperor Henry II installed Jaromir as Duke of Bohemia and promised protection against Polish aggression in return for incorporation. Jaromir ruled only a smaller territory, as Poland occupied the traditional Czech territories of Moravia, Silesia, and Lusatia. In 1012, Jaromir was deposed by his brother Oldrich, who assumed the Bohemian throne for himself. Following the resumption of hostilities between the Empire and Poland in 1028, Oldrich went on the offensive against Poland, reconquering Moravia by 1029, which helped to stabilize his duchy. The war ended in 1031 when Polish King Mieszko II surrendered to Conrad II. In the civil war which followed, Meiszko fled Poland for Bohemia, where Oldrich had him imprisoned and castrated in revenge for the torture Meiszko's father, Bolesław I of Poland, inflicted upon Duke Boleslaus III, Oldrich's brother, thirty years before.
Poland was unable to stabilize in the wake of Mieszko's exile, forcing Conrad to convene an assembly in July 1033 to issue the Treaty of Merseburg which restored Meiszko to the Polish throne. Conrad summoned Oldrich to appear to the assembly, but Oldrich refused. His absence raised the ire of the Emperor and Conrad, busy with securing his succession to the Burgundy throne, charged his son Duke Henry of Bavaria with punishing the recalcitrant Bohemian. At age 17, Henry's march on Bohemia was his first independent military command. The expedition was complete success, with Henry deposing Oldrich and restoring his brother Jaromir to the Bohemian throne, with Oldrich's son Bretislaus I appointed as Count of Morovia. Oldrich was imprisoned in Bavaria but by 1034 was pardoned and allowed to return to Bohemia. Oldrich deposed and blinded Jaromir, reclaimed the Bohemian throne, and exiled his son. While the reason for the conflict between father and son has been lost, it is believed Bretislaus supported Jaromir over his father. Oldrich died suddenly on November 9, 1034, allowing Bretislaus to return from exile. Though Jaromir was offered the throne, he declined in favor of his nephew. Bretislaus was then installed as the new Duke of Bohemia by Conrad.
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So, is it OK to delete these paragraphs?
Ninanta (talk) 21:27, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conrad II needs substantial editing 

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thread_title:  Move discussion in progress