Talk:Socialist Party (Ireland)

message: Merged Socialist Party (Ireland) with this page. Also added some new info from the 2004 elections.
Move to Socialist Party (Ireland)?
*Support - SoM 03:17, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: I stumbled on this page and I felt there was a bias for the party. It is written in many places like a promotion of the party, even with the occasionally added "they believe" or something to give it the appearance of neutrality. I'm not from Ireland or anything and no nothing about the subject, but I think maybe some Irish readers might want to try to add some neutrality.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gtbob12 (talk • contribs) 19:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  A lot of the article is ok but a good few parts need to be re-written due to the aformentioned NPOV. A lot of SP members have edited this article (along with others particularly the Labour Party article) to fit their own view which needs to be changed.
Exiledone (talk) 23:27, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: I propose that the articles Militant Labour (Ireland) and Militant Tendency (Ireland) be merged into Socialist Party (Ireland). Both articles are stubs that I think can be covered under a History heading within the Socialist Party article without causing any problems of undue weighting. Mpjd500 (talk) 11:13, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal: Militant Labour (Ireland) and Militant Tendency (Ireland) into Socialist Party (Ireland)

message: The Socialist Party is ideologically a Trotskyist party, as is apparent in their discussions, (Many reviews of Trotsky's works etc, ) as well as their membership of the Committee For a Workers' International, comments by their members, (Supporting Bolsheviks  + Critical of USSR  from a Trotskyist standpoint). 
It is also Leninist given their method of Party organisation(Allows factions, uses democratic centralism etc). 
On top of this, it is also radical as it calls for Socialist revolution and a restructuring of society.
Given that these have been removed from the wikipedia article for lack of reference, we will also have to remain consistent and remove the claims that they are Democratic Socialists or Marxists as well, as these are also unreferenced claims. 
Cyridius (talk) 05:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ideology 

message: It appears Paul Murphy is being double-counted as an elected TD for the Socialist Party and as a member of the AAA.  I don't care especially which party gets the number, but the total for Dáil membership shouldn't exceed 166.  BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 11:13, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The 2 Socialist Party TDs are Joe Higgins and Ruth Coppinger. Snappy (talk) 11:58, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of elected representatives 

message: OK, so no idea why I'm the one that is expected to start this topic here on talk, as I'm not the one that is proposing making a change to what has long been stated on the main page. My position is that for the sake of neutrality the political position should be removed until evidence is given for whichever position should be stated and good reason why the other (left-wing or far-left) should be removed. Otherwise I would propose that it should go back to the way it long stood, as left-wing to far-left. Helper201 (talk) 19:07, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Simple. Read any of the links in the article for Trotskist or Socialist International. Come back to us if this blindingly-obvious isn't enough for you. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:42, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, first of all the article that claims the party to be Trotskist appears to be an opinion piece by the fact the authors name is in the title. Secondly, that very same article actually claims the party to be left-wing. Yes Trotskism is an ideology that most would claim to be on the far-left, does that mean the party is, no. That, along with your implication that being a member of Socialist International somehow defines them as only being far-left is a WP:SYNTHESIS argument. If you were going to use that argument as a basis for the party's position you could also point to the ideology of democratic socialism, which is not widely regarded as a far-left ideology, or the fact that they are also a member of European United Left–Nordic Green Left, a left-wing group, but as I said already, you shouldn't as that is a synthesis argument. Your sarcasm and sense of self-righteousness is also highly unhelpful. Helper201 (talk) 17:29, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

text: An article on the party website about James Connolly compares him approvingly with Trotsky http://socialistparty.ie/2018/06/bold-brave-undaunted-life-ideas-james-connolly/. But I think that it is the Trotskyist method that makes a party Troskyist. This article mentions the theory of permanent revolution, a classic Trotskyist idea. Another Trotskyist theme is found under "about us", on their website. They emphasise that only the working class can resolve society's problems. Their work on women's rights is better understood from reading Trotsky's "Transitional programme" which also explains statements such as "Recent events in Egypt, in Turkey, in Greece and in Brazil illustrate that mass movements and even revolution are on the agenda in the 21st century". They are taking the current understanding of the working class and leading them on to revolutionary conclusions. Vahvistus (talk) 19:36, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: And? When you have a reliable secondary source that describes the party as Trotskyist, then we can talk. Your interpretation of articles on their website is WP:OR and WP:SYNTHESIS and doesn't qualify for inclusion. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 20:36, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: How about this. A brief biography of Peter Hadden in the Encyclopaedia of Trotskyism On-line (ETOL). Peter was one of the founders of the Militant in Ireland. "committed to building the forces of Trotskyism and the unity of the working class, along with the other initial forces of the Irish Militant. After a few years working for the NIPSA union, he worked full time as a leading member of the National Executive of the Irish Militant/Socialist Party for the rest of his life, serving as a guiding influence on the party, both north and south."https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/hadden/index.htm His writings are collected in the ETOL Vahvistus (talk) 22:16, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Ask yourself "Is this a reliable secondary source that describes the Socialist Party as Trotskyist?" The answer in this case is obviously "No." Please do also read the linked WP:OR and WP:SYNTHESIS pages. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 22:27, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This is just comical. Why is Bastun so determined to hide the party's Trotskist core? Should personal allegiances be declared here? Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:03, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I don't understand why an ETOL biography of one person that fails to mention that the Socialist Party is Trotskyist is being advanced as a RS that the Socialist Party is Trotskyist... , I'm sorry, I refer you both again to my comment of 10th December, above.  Ask yourself "Is this a reliable secondary source that describes the Socialist Party as Trotskyist?" The answer in this case is obviously "No." Please do also read the linked WP:OR and WP:SYNTHESIS pages. It really is that simple. For the record, I am not, and have never been a member of the Socialist Party, AAA, the Socialist Workers Party, PBP, AAA-PBP, Solidarity, Solidarity-PBP, or Militant Labour. But it's nice to be accused of membership of this party on one talk page and a right-wing FG supporter on others, I guess I'm doing something right... ;-) Regards, BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 11:16, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political ideology not cited and no evidence given of why left-wing should have been removed