Talk:Drugwipe test

message: The article refers to a 'rapit test', without defining what 'rapit' is. I'm not clear if this is a misspelling, a localised spelling, or a term of the craft. I'm removing it until we can pin it down.
--UnicornTapestry (talk) 13:22, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rapit test? 

message: There is a problem with accuracy claims. Article nowhere defines what the accuracy means. Is it for which drug? Is it false positives to real positives? Is it false negatives to positive? And how is the sample group defined? The sites articles claim that the sampled people were about 30% positive, and then got the 94-97% reliability figure for amphetamine. But if the group has less drug user in the test positive group will have more false positives, and we will get a figure or accuracy that isn't 90%. For example if none of the sample group have used amphetamine then with a group of about 100 there will be about 5 false positives, and the accuracy will be 0%. The whole claim of accuracy is really marketingspeak as the end accuracy is dependant of the sample group.
This shows in Finland as Finlands health officials have found out that for cocaine, opioids and cannabis the false positives outnumbered real positives two to one. So in finland claiming 94-97% of accuracy is really a problem to the 2 out of 3 that will be banned from driving upto a month until blood test arrives. 
Instead of stating accuracy as a percentage the test should state the false positives percentage when the subjects are drugfree, and false negatives when the subjects have been using drugs. There is no way to say what the ratio of false positives to false negatives is if the sample size isn't known. And the figures should be stated by the individual drugs, not as I suspect, for only the best one. You can't claim accuracy for a test that gives out false positives. Talitintti (talk) 22:33, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As you clearly don't understand the problem could you defiine the accuracy. Is it true positives out of all positive? If nobody in the test group has used any drugs you will end up with at least 5-10 false positives out of 100. That would make the test accuracy 0% with that group, as all positives were false. And the accurace isn't given per drug, but as a single figure. I doubt it is same for every drug. Instead of giving a accuracy figure which to a layperson is misleading the persentage of false positives in a drugfree group and false negatives in a drugusers, and with each drug. In finland they have found that compared to blood tests for cocaine, opiats and cannabis the test gives that many false positives that the test has practicly no use. Here's the pdf of the ombudsman statement. In finnish but google translator isnt completely inept with it, only somewhat. http://www.eduskunta.fi/triphome/bin/thw.cgi/trip/?${APPL}=ereoapaa&${BASE}=ereoapaa&${THWIDS}=0.54/1291506834_277054&${TRIPPIFE}=PDF.pdf That independent study found the test lacking. Even the claim 100% sensitivity, meaning all negetives were true is false. With every drug there were a bunch of false negatives. Talitintti (talk) 00:03, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The Druid analysis of oral fluid screening devices put this one in the category of "promising". I would have thought it would be better to have an article on oral fluid screening devices rather than one promoting this particular device (which was not in fact the best performer). Fainites barleyscribs 23:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The DRUID test didn't test for reliability, but was more of a police work productivity test. Mainly how easy and fast each test was. I think the sentence about DRUID test should be removed or either moved to under a new heading "Ease of use", or something. Talitintti (talk) 00:22, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well sort of but not quite. It says From a police perspective an oral fluid screening device is a piece of equipment to enhance traffic law enforcement. This kind of screening devices will never be that accurate that they can be used as evidence for an offence. Therefore these kind of devices are allowed to make mistakes. This is comparable to the policy for alcohol screening devices. In the PURS qualifications for the operability as well as for the sensitivity, the specificity, the accuracy and the positive and negative predictive values are provided. So far it's the only secondary reference (in English) in the article. Fainites barleyscribs 10:42, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with accuracy 

message: Drugwipe has been extensively studied for the past 15 years.  Additional references will be added to the page so that readers can form their own opinions.  See DRUIDS study.
Drugwipe was tested by the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) in 1996.  Drugwipe was used as a 'surface' test and in that study, Drugwipe was 100% accurate with zero false positives, 100% true negatives. 
Sweat and Saliva testing studies were conducted several years later with 94-97% accuracy.Purechi (talk) 23:28, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As you clearly don't understand the problem could you defiine the accuracy. Is it true positives out of all positive? If nobody in the test group has used any drugs you will end up with at least 5-10 false positives out of 100. That would make the test accuracy 0% with that group, as all positives were false. And the accurace isn't given per drug, but as a single figure. I doubt it is same for every drug. Instead of giving a accuracy figure which to a layperson is misleading the persentage of false positives in a drugfree group and false negatives in a drugusers, and with each drug. In finland they have found that compared to blood tests for cocaine, opiats and cannabis the test gives that many false positives that the test has practicly no use. Here's the pdf of the ombudsman statement. In finnish but google translator isnt completely inept with it, only somewhat. http://www.eduskunta.fi/triphome/bin/thw.cgi/trip/?${APPL}=ereoapaa&${BASE}=ereoapaa&${THWIDS}=0.54/1291506834_277054&${TRIPPIFE}=PDF.pdf That independent study found the test lacking. Even the claim 100% sensitivity, meaning all negetives were true is false. With every drug there were a bunch of false negatives. Talitintti (talk) 00:03, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The Druid analysis of oral fluid screening devices put this one in the category of "promising". I would have thought it would be better to have an article on oral fluid screening devices rather than one promoting this particular device (which was not in fact the best performer). Fainites barleyscribs 23:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The DRUID test didn't test for reliability, but was more of a police work productivity test. Mainly how easy and fast each test was. I think the sentence about DRUID test should be removed or either moved to under a new heading "Ease of use", or something. Talitintti (talk) 00:22, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well sort of but not quite. It says From a police perspective an oral fluid screening device is a piece of equipment to enhance traffic law enforcement. This kind of screening devices will never be that accurate that they can be used as evidence for an offence. Therefore these kind of devices are allowed to make mistakes. This is comparable to the policy for alcohol screening devices. In the PURS qualifications for the operability as well as for the sensitivity, the specificity, the accuracy and the positive and negative predictive values are provided. So far it's the only secondary reference (in English) in the article. Fainites barleyscribs 10:42, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy is correct 

message: I will merge this article with drug test as there is not enough content for a separate article. Also, for an article about a certain brand (as opposed to a class of comparable products), there is clearly not enough notability. It is obvious that this article is maintained by an editor affiliated with the producer of this test and it is essentially an advertisement for this particular brand. Cacycle (talk) 12:10, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent idea. These tests are plainly designed to be a quick, road-side "do we take this any further" tests rather than an actual analysis for evidential purposes so it will make a neat little paragraph on the Drug test page.Fainites barleyscribs 13:08, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[drug test]] 

message: Latest edit by Germanspikedhelmet has been a complete rewrite, turning this article from neutral to blatant advertisement93.106.162.243 (talk) 03:13, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Article turned into advertisement

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110707092832/http://www.affiniton.com/DrugWipeIIpaper_CommunityCorrections.pdf to http://www.affiniton.com/DrugWipeIIpaper_CommunityCorrections.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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