Talk:Leon Kass

message: All of the quotes, except for the last one, have no citation. Where do they come from? Provide sources or they will be removed.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.89.17 (talk) 04:03, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes 

message: I think it's inappropriate to refer to Kass as a Straussian. In an interview with The American Enterprise magazine, he said that he never met Strauss during his studies at Chicago and has only read "a couple of his books."--Denysmonroe81 (talk) 20:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leo Strauss 

message: I suppose that this is fair, but Leon Kass probably should be more thoroughly written on than this. I believe he is one of the most evil men currently alive in America. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.211.231.145 (talk) 16:34, April 9, 2005.
Why do you think this?  What at all is evil about the man?  He is one of the most upright people I have ever met.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.4.92 (talk) 03:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  unsigned comment 

message: Pastricide is correct on Kass's position both on stem cell lines and IVF.  While it is fair to say that Kass generally falls into a conservative (or neo-conservative) position, he does not do so in knee-jerk fashion, nor does he do it without argument.  Ironic that the writer below offered a link to "the wisdom of repugnance" article, which gives an extended argument against cloning, and then derides Kass for not giving arguments for his position.--Noesis 02:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What about the other deletion? I think my last version of the Babel lecture expresses his view fairly, and he literally keeps giving that lecture word for word -- seems like he considers it important. Dan 18:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, I think someone else did that. But yes, that sounds appropriate. Dan 18:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Score-
Keep ice cream quote: 1
Lose ice cream quote: 1
Though I don't totally agree with you, Noesis, I see your point, and I propose a compromise:
Let's put the qutoe into a "Trivia" section.
Also, Noesis, since you seem to know about Kass' overall philosophy, please add that knowledge to the article. It's ok if you dont have sources now, you can add them later when you get the chance.
--Zaorish 01:38, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disputed 

message: Dan, if you believe that his tower of babel essay is an important part of his philosophy, go ahead and summarize it in the article.--Zaorish 23:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fleshing out Kass' worldview 

message: I can see how George Bush and many in his administration use this argument, but it is Not proven in the existing state of the article that Kass does. In fact, he seems to base arguments like his abotu the destiny of women on what is "natural," not on what is evil or disturbing.
I will delete the reference unless some people defend it well.
--Zaorish 02:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if I follow you. Kass invented the term, didn't he? Seems like if anything, you'd want to edit the Wisdom of repugnance article to reflect the man's views as you see them. Dan 05:40, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the "Wisdom of Repugnance" 

message: This entire article past the introductory paragraph reads like advocacy journalism, which is specifically against Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Writing style. Specifically, reliable and neutral third party sources should be predominant; much of this article quotes the subject's own writings. The writing style should be neutral, factual, and understated, avoiding both a sympathetic point of view and an advocacy journalism point of view. -- Trevyn 00:09, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you saw the earlier version as advocacy journalism, please explain what point of view you think it advocated. Those "reproductive issues" and his views on marriage, women and sex appear to form a seamless whole in his writings. We tried (by request) to present a coherent picture of the man's worldview. By contrast, the current version basically contains a someone else move this to Wikiquote section; it gives quotations with no context and makes no attempt to tie them into his career. It says not one word about the attitude towards technology that informs his work according to his Babel lecture (where he decides to "step back from the urgency of contemporary issues to reflect on their deeper and enduring roots: the meaning of our devotion to technology, and especially its relation to the universal humanistic dream.") Dan 18:53, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

text: (The "influences" text you removed does seem borderline irrelevant, and for all I know false.) Dan 22:55, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I restored the relevant text. If you like, we could add that many liberals find these views of Kass notable and give examples like this one. Dan 00:56, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think it advocates the point of view that Kass is not a loon, and that his views have encyclopedic merit. Seriously, it sounds amateurish, like one of his students writing a précis of one of Kass' lectures without a critical eye. I understand that Kass is a controversial man with controversial views, but this is exactly what we need to get across, not a paraphrasing of his writings. Again, from Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Writing style, "badly written biographies of living persons should be stubbed or deleted. The article should document, in a non-partisan manner, what reliable third party sources have published about the subject and, in some circumstances, what the subject may have published about themselves." Note that the text in question is not Kass writing about himself. I may be open to the idea of including information from the "views on women" section, but we need reliable third parties writing about Kass. I don't think a blog post counts. —Trevyn 23:25, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I guess I don't see the point of this supposed policy in a case where he clearly considers these views relevant to his own positions. And I don't know what made you think it "advocates the point of view that Kass is not a loon," unless you think writing about him gives the chair of the President's Council on Bioethics added credibility. He sounds like a fucking 9/11 hijacker. And it doesn't count as anti-Kass advocacy journalism because he apparently sees no problem with attacking the basic premise of America. (Nor does he consider it incidental to his work, according to the Babel quote, which of course explains why I included it in the first place.) Dan 01:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: How nice for you. I wrote that in response to a curious charge relating to the article. If you have a comment relating to the article, please post it here. (Do you think the article shows favoritism towards Kass, or misrepresents his views?) If you want to discuss Kass himself or my language or anything except this article, you know where to find my talk page. Dan 00:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd like to move this text to my talk page and respond there. But first: if you think some change would improve the article, please say so. You can suggest a change here or be bold and edit the article yourself. Dan 17:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The article says he makes another argument related to that theological claim -- he doesn't try to prove God's existence, but he does argue in the quoted sentence that reason cannot provide morality. Part of the argument from morality article addresses this claim. I'll have to think about the rest of this as it relates to K's entry. Your cut text will appear on my talk page in a bit, once I finish my response. Dan 22:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia is not [[advocacy journalism]]. 

message: -Please excuse if this is not proper usage of the talk pages, but i also believe the article has been slightly skewed. Granted, with people believing the man is inherently evil, objectivity is a bit hard to come by, but the views he presents are not so.. what's the word.. extremist? as the article makes it sound. My main concern in writing this is the quotes section and his views on women. Taken from his essay "The End of Courtship":
:"The supreme virtue of the virtuous woman was modesty, a form of sexual self-control, manifested not only in chastity but in decorous dress and manner, speech and deed, and in reticence in the display of her well-banked affections. A virtue, as it were, made for courtship, it served simultaneously as a source of attraction and a spur to manly ardor, a guard against a woman's own desires, as well as a defense against unworthy suitors. A fine woman understood that giving her body (in earlier times, even her kiss) meant giving her heart, which was too precious to be bestowed on anyone who would not prove himself worthy, at the very least by pledging himself in marriage to be her defender and lover forever."
Now, i know the first part of this quote is in the article, but taken out of context, the view presented is very different. i wouldn't be surprised if this is how most of the quotes appear. I do not have the experience to edit an encyclopedia entry myself, and though i do not personally agree with some of what he concludes, i do believe the whole argument should be present when any part of it is. For that reason, i think, the issue of advocacy was raised. I don't mean to offend anyone, i only wish for a more objective view of the man's presentation.
nemuru :3 22:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you really think the rest of the quote contains an argument? It certainly doesn't change what he advocates, so I don't know what you mean by "very different". Looking to see what the second and third sentences add to his claim, I find an unsupported psychological assertion couched in vague language and attributed to "a fine woman" at some unspecified point in the past, so that he can disavow it when we present contrary evidence. The article cuts that bit in favor of another vague assertion that Kass at least seems to take responsibility for and applies to all women instead of just "fine" ones. Dan 06:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Slightly skewed would be a massive understatement, this reads more like a CV put out by Kass's own people.  The article is so devoid of criticism of Kass and his close relationships to the Bush administration and Neo-Cons that it is worthless.  I personally would love to add a bit more balance to this, but it is my guess that the entry is highly managed by his supporters and any criticism would be deleted, despite confirming to Wikipedia rules. Rober1236jua (talk) 12:33, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: skewed?

message: Kass has some revealing, or at least provocative quotes
Kass wrote, “the finitude of human life is a blessing for every human individual, whether he knows it or not” (Kass 2004, p. 311)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.122.203.207 (talk) 01:38, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote section? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090307025936/http://www.bioethics.gov/reports/ to http://www.bioethics.gov/reports/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716140929/http://www.chicagomaroon.com/2005/10/3/kass-leaves-post-as-bushs-bioethics-chair to http://www.chicagomaroon.com/2005/10/3/kass-leaves-post-as-bushs-bioethics-chair
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Quick note, because I neglected to capture it in the edit summary, but I've removed reference to his time as chairman of the President's Council on Bioethics as being "controversial," per WP:WORDS. His time there is thoroughly elaborated in the article body. TheBlueCanoe 23:29, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede edit  

message: It is not accurate to say that he taught  in the Great Books program as well as in-depth studies of Aristotle's De Anima and Nicomachean Ethics and Darwin's On the Origin of Species. The Aristotle and Darwin works cited are in the College's Great Books curriculum. I suspect the in-depth studies refer to the school's sole electives -- what are called preceptorials where more time is spent on a selected (by teacher and student) work. Not worth getting into the arcana of the College's curriculum, but sentence should be re-written so as not to misrepresent that curriculum. (Yes, I'm an alumna.) Bertandherb (talk) 23:19, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Description of years teaching at St. John's College