Talk:Yoweri Museveni/Archive 1

message: Passes the google test. I fixed more obvious errors, changed "concentration camp" to "refugee camp" and added a bit about AIDS. Vicki Rosenzweig
There are sources what tells that He was born in 1944? What year is correct? --218.145.25.15 20:59, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

message: There appears to be some discrepancy on birthplace.  According to what I'm finding, he was born in Kikoni village in present-day Ntungamo district and then went to Mbarara High School.  The problem is that Ntungamo didn't exist at that time, as it was part of the Ankole region.  See this.  Given how many times new Ugandan districts split from old, it is quite possible that Museveni's birthplace was in Ankole, which was split into Mbarara, which was split into Ntungamo.  Does anyone have an official source that clarifies the matter? - BanyanTree 01:45, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A certain encyclopedia which I won't mention hære gave his birthplace as Mbarra district, which I took to be a typo for Mbarara. But his website  says: "Yoweri Kaguta Museveni was born into a family of cattle keepers in Ankole, Western Uganda." That probably settles it. What do you reckon? TreveXtalk 01:55, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Just found this  "And as if that is not enough, Mbarara also happens to be President Museveni's home district." TreveXtalk 01:57, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good enough for me.  Reverted my change. - BanyanTree 02:02, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

text: I don't know why I didn't think of going to Statoids before, which I previously used to figure out the maze of Sudanese districts.  According to this, in 1944 (Museveni's birthyear and pre-independence) there were four provinces one of which was Western, which one can assume encompasses the region of Uganda we're talking about.  By 1966 (through some unexplained post-Independence process) there were 19 administrative divisions, including the Ankole kingdom.  In 1976, the districts became provinces.  Southern province encompassed both Ankole and Kigezi and had Mbarara as a capital.  In 1989 (post NRA victory), the 10 provinces were reorganized into 33 districts, one of which was Mbarara, and in 1994 the district of Ntungamo was formed from parts of Mbarara and Bushenyi.  It's possible that Britannica and BBC simply have not updated their basic bio since 1994.  Given the information we have, I am willing to say that Museveni's birthplace has fallen, at various times, in administrative regions known as Western, Ankole, Southern, Mbarara and Ntungamo, without any contradiction.  The article is correct in reflecting the most recent region (Ntungamo) and I see no real need to change it. - BanyanTree 02:04, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hooray! Well done for finally putting that one to rest! TreveXtalk 02:23, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthplace 

message: why isn't there anything said about China Keitesi's claim in her book that Museveni used Children in his rebellion army? Maybe people with connections on this issue could discuss to make an article on Keitesi and the validity of what is said in her book. Keitetsi's site --Asylum4Violin 22:48, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to add information on this topic to this article and the National Resistance Army article.  If you wish, you can also start an article on China Keitesi.  Cheers, BanyanTree 02:05, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of Children in Museveni's army?

message: I am trying to learn about Museveni, and help someone write a report on Uganda. All these sweeping changes and reverts are disruptive and confusing. Can we slow things down, and discuss section by section? Sam Spade  14:59, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Sam,  Sorry for the mess.  I think you might be better off choosing a version from the page history at this point.  We can't even agree on which country Museveni is from, despite the fact that TreveX has several links in the section above.  I won't even go into the stuff about bipolar disorder and the Tutsi RPF killing Tutsis in order to make the Hutus look bad.  If anyone would care to talk some sense into Bamboo and I, it would be appreciated. - BanyanTree 15:59, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It is good that BanyanTree finally brought up the matter of the former child soldier, China Kaiteesi, and her campaign against the use of child soldiers in combat. If I as Bamboo had brought that unsavory side to Museveni into this Wikipedia article, I would have been censored by BanyanTree and fellow gullible westerners for being too "far flung." This is why I keep re-loading the material we have been sending on Museveni. The more informed people inside and outside Uganda see it, the more they will add even more shocking things that have been concealed for so long with the help of naive westerners like BanyanTree. If a man can use child soldiers in his war against a government, is it too implausible to believe it when we say that the parents of these child soldiers were killed in order for them to develop unquestining loyalty to Museveni as the only parent figure they have ever really known? The dabate rages on. We shall keep sending the material as it is. User:Bamboo (sig added by Sam Spade  15:34, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, you wouldn't have been censored, because the use of child soldiers by the NRA is well-documented, as was your contribution about plundering of natural resources from the DRC, which I also did not remove.  You could write a damning article about Museveni and the Movement using internationally-credible sources, but you insist on adding inflammatory items that directly contradict not only the official version, but the accounts of human rights organizations and other critics. (Just the information in official UN reports would raise eyebrows.)  Also, your question is conjecture and has no place in an encyclopedia.  I find this entire disagreement regrettable as you are obviously knowledgeable and passionate about areas where Wikipedia is thin on editors. However, unreferenced additions that contradict reputable sources have no place here.  I'm going back to my trench now... - BanyanTree 15:59, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I second the above, Bamboo has the potential to be a much needed bulk content contributer here, and meerly needs to lower the level of intensity a notch or 2. Have a look @ NPOV or Wikipedia:Verifiability. Your work is appreciated, and will be even more so when you conform to our process. Cheers, Sam Spade  18:11, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Take it slow! 

message: The hypocrisy of the Wikipedia editorial team is starting to come to the surface. Wikipedia claims that it stands for the publication of articles written from a "neutral point of view." That would be okay if it were consistent. In its article on the late Ugandan president Idi Amin, the contributors departed from this policy. Amin is described in the most unflattering terms. He is called a buffoon, childish, he is accused of killing 500,000 Ugandans and yet no single document has ever been published that listed even 5,000 names of people Amin supposedly killed. This is a complete violation of Wikipedia's "neutral point of view" philosophy.
In the past few days, an article on the current President, Yoweri Museveni, has been presented by Bamboo and associates. It has, however, been criticized by Wikipedia contributors for not being "neutral" in its viewpoint. No attempt has been made to explain why the one-sided article on Idi Amin has not been revised. This is the basis upon which Bamboo and associates will continue uploading the same article on Museveni and will ignore the attempts to censure our contribution on Museveni. (comment by User:Bamboo)
:Three other users, myself, User:BanyanTree and User:Sam Spade have tried to reason with you in regards your contributions as User:Bamboo and anonymously as User:81.199.23.86.
:*You flooded this article with new information, the majority of which had extreme bias against Museveni.
:*You refused to cite sources for this POV material, despite repeated requests from other users.
:*Have engaged in an edit war with other users, and have made a statement of intent (see above) to continiue this behaviour.
:*You have refusing to resolve problems on talk pages.
:I am not a Museveni fan. Quite frankly, I believe he has lost the plot recently. However, the current version of the article is simply not fair and balanced. Of course this article should include criticisms, but these should be backed up with references. You are in violation of the three-revert rule and may now be banned for a period of time. TreveXtalk 19:23, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  comment 

message: Hope we can now put this whole sorry edit war behind us. I have cleaned up the formatting and tightened the prose in places. Most of the uncited POV stuff is gone or qualified, although I have tagged the claim that Habyarimana plotted to assasinate M7 as . I am removing the POV check tag as the article, on the whole, seems pretty balanced.
Some of this new material is really general history of Uganda, which would probably be better placed in Uganda since 1979. Comments? TreveXtalk 22:31, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I largely agree, and support merger of content. I would like to see as little deleted as possible. Sam Spade  23:16, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A fresh start

message: This page is now the number one result for 'museveni' and 'yoweri museveni' in Google! For some reason, his official page museveni.com, which was number one, seems to have gone offline. It is also number one and numer two in Yahoo for 
'yoweri museveni' and 'museveni', respectively. TreveXtalk 12:28, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Prominence in Google!