Talk:Crypto-Judaism

message: According to the IEC (Catalan Studies Institute) Dictionary "xueta" means:
1 m. i f. [LC] [HIH] Descendent de jueus mallorquins convertits al cristianisme.
Descendent of Mallorca Jews who converted to Christianism
2 adj. [LC] [HIH] Relatiu o pertanyent als xuetes.
Relative or belonging to the xuetes (pl form of xueta)
Also, I'm a Catalan native speaker. There are several words to say pig: porc, marrà,.. but "xueta" isn't one of them.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.55.130.156 (talk) 17:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Xueta doesn't translate to pig in Catalan

message: The articles about the Messianic sects are somewhat out of place on this page. Messianic jews are considered jews only by they themselves. I'm not familiar enough with the issue to remove it from the article, but someone better informed on Wikipedia's policy on religious identification should do so (Are Messianics jews because they claim to be, or are they not because no one else thinks they are, is the base question here and I imagine WP has a consistent policy on the patter).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.176.107 (talk) 06:11, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A general rule concerning minorities, ethnic groups, etc. is that self-identification is the determining factor.  If the "Messianic Jews" call themselves Jews, so be it....That doesn't imply any obligation for them to be accepted as Jews by other people who claim to be Jews. Smallchief 17:17, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Messianic Jews are simply Ethnic Jews who practice Nazarene Judaism (as Christianity was historically known. See Nazarene.), Jewish Christians, etc. Jewishness is primarily ethnic and then religious "The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite." Remember that Israelites were later called "Judeans" or "Jews" ("Yehudim"). Also refer to Carol Harris-Shapiro's and Dan Cohn-Sherbok's Wikipedia entries.108.3.202.179 (talk) 04:27, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: "Messianic Jews" are Christians, not Jews

message: One thing is to be descended from Jews (i.e. to have Jewish ancestry) and another thing is to be a Crypto-Jew. A Crypto-Jew (from the Greek kruptós, which means "hidden")is someone who secretly believes in the Jewish religion while practicing in public another religion. For example the Jews in Belmonte. I've deleted the names of Fidel Castro and Baruch Spinoza because they aren't (or weren't) "secret believers of the Jewish faith". Fidel Castro is/was atheist and Baruch Spinoza made clear that he did NOT adhere to Judaism. --82.108.214.211 17:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've restored them, as they were descended from crypto-Jews; do we want to include descendants?  And Spinoza was unquestionably raised as a Jew, whatever his beliefs as an adult.--Runcorn 22:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added another meaning that is missing, it also includes people that try to hide their background by claiming other ethnicities for various reasons. This would adhere to the meaning of "hidden" as well and the term does not need to apply only to someone who secretly practices the religion, as Judiasm is more of an ethnic background than a religion, really.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.97.195.2 (talk) 21:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Meaning of Crypto-Judaism

message: Carlos Santana is allegedly descended from Crypto-Jews, although I don't think he currently practices Judaism.  It would be nice to mention this in the article if it can be substantiated. --Viriditas  | Talk 12:54, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Carlos Santana

message: To those looking for references on Xuetas, check Los judíos en España, Joseph Pérez. Marcial Pons. Madrid (2005).
--Error 01:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: As anyone considered a section on fictional or hoax "Crypto-Jews?" There had to be a few?--V. Joe 01:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiction

message: The statements about Ataturk are baseless and not supporetd by any kind of evidence. Just because there is an allegation in a book about this statement, does not make it a fact. There are also books which claims Adolf Hitler was jewish!
On the other hand Sabetayist movement and community in Ottoman Empire and in modern Turkey can be considered as a form of crypto-judaism. 
Isatay 07:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkey 

message: If Marrano is an insulting term, why is it so prominent in the article when Jews used other terms, eg., new christian?  I'm not suggesting it not be used, but shouldn't the preferred terms of the Jews be used rather than the insult of their tormentors? 4.233.200.135 06:31, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why the insulting use of Marrano?

message: "... there still remain a number of Jews known as the "Jedid al-Islam," who were converted to Islam half a century ago ("Il Vessillo Israelitico," April, 1884)."
Half a century before what date?  If the source is from 1884, that's more than a full century before the current date (see timestamp @ sig below).
This should be clarified.  --Davecampbell 23:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "half a century ago" ? 

message: I think I found someone to add to your list, this is only my speculation,It is possible that Eva Longoria could be a descendent of the Conversos, here are some reasons why this could be possible. 
1. Eva longoria's parents were fron the brooks county in south texas. many of the hispanic or Mexican American people from south texas were descendents of the Crypto-Jews.
2. "In the New World of the 1600s, my ancestor, Lorenzo Suares de Longoria, an old Christian, who lived in Nuevo León, established a relationship with a woman from Nuevo León who was a descendant of Conversos." Frank Longoria in article Frank Longoria's story. []
   "Raul Longoria traces this distinguished family’s descent from Lorenzo Suarez de Longoria" Eva Longoria:
The Roots of a Desperate Housewife []
the first quote by Frank longoria (Frank and Eva are not related, but in the same clan) who confirmed he was a converso. He said that his ancestor Lorenzo Suarez de Longoria who was an Old Christian who was also the ancestor of Eva Longoria, had a relationship with a converso woman from Nuevo Leon.We cannot be sure that Lorenzo Suarez de Longoria did marry the converso woman, if he did marry the woman, Eva definately has Jewish routes. I am not saying that Eva Longoria is definatly a Converso, but what I am saying is that it is possible that Eva Longoria could has some converso ancestors. If you want more information click on the internet links I placed in this discussion on Eva Longoria. --Bad Inquisitor 16:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder if Evan Longoria can be included?  :)  Unless it's published publicly, per WP:BLP, we can't say anything.  Anyways, even if she is descended from Marrano's or Conversos, she probably doesn't practice crypto-Judaism.   OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 21:39, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Eva Longoria]]

message: That would be an interesting topic. 94.222.176.154 (talk) 12:32, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use in conspiracy theories 

message: If one adheres to Judaism while pretending to be irreligious, isn't the person a crypto-Judaist still? If so, the definition should be extended to cover this nuance. EIN (talk) 14:13, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  “of another faith” 

message: The article states: 
"During World War II, Nazi Germany was known to have pressured Majorcan religious authorities into surrendering the Xuetes, targeted because of their Jewish ancestry. Reportedly the religious authorities refused the Nazi request."
How would the Nazis have demanded anything of Mallorca, it's part of Spain it was neutral and unoccupied by the Germans during the war (in fact it was a fascist ally). If there's no citation I would suggest taking it down, it sounds like just another "Nazi story".Historian932 (talk) 03:13, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Skeptical of "Nazi story" 

message: The Romaniote Jewish community of Greece lived there for hundreds of years as a Jewish community.  What is there that is or was "hidden" about them?  66.75.232.157 (talk) 20:44, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why the paragraph on Romaniote Jews? 

message: In hindsight, methinks Pope Alexander II was a crypto-Jew...
1. he blessed/praised Afonso the Conqueror of Toledo in 1060 for his tolerant attitude to Jews and their Jewish immigration.
2. he financed/blessed the Norman invasion of Saxon England by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_the_Conqueror in 1066, whom went on to introduced his Jewish overlords into England from Spain.
Timescales and conquerors and Jews.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:411:1600:226:8FF:FEDC:FD74 (talk) 03:09, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Without reliable sources making that assertion, this is just original research, which is inappropriate for Wikipedia. clpo13(talk) 19:11, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pope Alexander II. a crypto-Jew? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Marrano article states that that term is a synonym for Crypto-Jew. I'd say these should just be merged. Granted one can argue that marrano is sometimes used in slightly different ways from Crypto-Jew. However, between the articles Crypto-Jew and Converso I think all of the potential shades of meaning for marrano are well covered. In other words, there is no shade of meaning in between those two that merits a separate article. And even if there was, marrano would not be a good term to use for that as it is normally used synonymously with crypto-jew.
Anybody disagree?
-- MC 141.131.2.3 (talk) 16:41, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur, it is distinct as it relates to marranos and does merit its on page.Simbagraphix (talk) 02:14, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from Marrano