Wikipedia talk:Eras

message: Discussion seems to have died down without final consensus, so I'm going to add my two cents. Because I am a masochist. I think this whole long discussion fits into a wider discussion on the choice between two equally POV usages which has cropped up in other instances on LJ. Other discussions seemed to lean towards "Use as appropriate". For example, in March 2005 it was decided that Gdansk would be used for clearly Polish times and areas of discussion, while Danzig would be used for clearly German times and areas and "Gdansk (formerly Danzig)" or "Danzig (now Gdansk)" should be used where there is overlap or uncertainty. Should we not take a lead from this?
This is basically a vote for compromise. Define where a apparently European/Christian POV is appropriate and where a pointedly non-Christian POV is appropriate (e.g. in my opinion, in articles regarding non-Christian religions), and use both everywhere else. I know there has been plenty of contention over where those POVs are appropriate (including both variations on "Nowhere!"), but I think it should be agreed that consensus towards one particular system is unlikely. Decide to compromise, and then decide (reasonably) exactly where the lines of the consensus will be drawn.
(If it were not for the apparent consensus [or is it full policy?] against Wikipedia-specific systems, I would suggest that all dates be uniformly converted to BW and AW [Before Wikipedia and After Wikipedia], measuring 2000AD/CE as 1BW and 2001 as 1AW! Would a Wikipedia-centric POV be neutral, given that Wikipedia itself is neutral? Or attempts to be?) Xander 10:21, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Following other examples? 

message: Instead, it is an issue of Nuetrality among all Religions. "You" may feel like BC/AD are "Right" and you may choose to ignore the existence of all other methods, and you may decide that "your" system is perfect and makes sense but you are not the majority. No one knows who the majority really is. People in China don't care about "Before Christ" and they make up a hefty chunk of the world pop. Should we use their system?
This is ridiculous. I'll say that again - THIS IS RIDICULOUS. The BCE/CE system was designed so that the world can have a system that will be nuetral to everyone. No one is telling you to start crossing the AD off of your calendar and changing it to CE. You can call it whatever you want, and write whatever you want. It is YOUR choice. But this isn't the Calendar hangning by a magnet on your fridge. This is wikipedia - and just like historic and scientific articles that now through modern communication and the internet are being read the world over - we need to be nuetral. Why? Because why should we pick any one way to do something that caters to only one group? If BC and AD are the standard here, then why don't we start putting pictures of Jesus everywhere and ending every article with "God Bless". Because it is ridiculous - that is why. Because it doesn't make sense to pick one groups method. BCE and CE were made FOR religious people AND non-religious people. It didn't get invented in some dark basement by evil christian haters. It was used like everything else in the world today - a way to not offend people since generally, as is the case here, no ONE group is ever the majority.
I saw one person here claim that Politcal Correctness shouldn't apply here. Then where should it apply? Do you call mentally disabled people Retards? Do you call members of the Gay Community Queers and Fags? So when should we NOT use it then, everytime YOU dont like it? THAT IS RIDICULOUS.
I 100% disagree with the use of BC/AD. I personally use them all the time and find zero offense to either method. This has nothing to do with offensiveness - in fact it is only offensive to some, whether it is BC or BCE ect... a group of people will always dislike it. However Wikipedia is not censored. But more importantly, it should be set to a more "global standard" so to speak. Many religions and groups of people may have different uses, dates, names, and so on. Each group of people no doubt finds their own way superior, and none of these methods are compatible. So, most importantly, Wikipedia readers are not all christian, not even mostly christian. There is an extremely large number of different Religions, Races, Backgrounds, Nationalities ect... So in this case, as in all similar cases (whenever possible) a standard that can fit them all should be use.
BCE/CE are in no way "Godless", they are two abbreviations - they do not carry any other meaning aside from what they stand for, BCE = Before the Common Era and CE = Common Era. There is no Godlessness or attempt to Expunge Religion in those words. BCE does not mean "Christianity is Wrong". It carries NO Religious or Non-Religious meaning. But AD/BC implicitly imply Religion and to a further extent, Christianty as being central to all dates. Try to remember that although YOU may believe in something, not everyone does. For example, there is no page on Wikipedia called "True Prohphet" that names Jesus or Muhammad or whoever as the One TRUE Prophet. Why? Because people believe different things. In that case however, there is no "middle ground"
But here there is. BCE/CE can be applied to everyone. And only people who invent their own meanings will take offence (and thus those people will find offense for themselves elsewhere, even if they are appeased on this matter). BCE/CE does not change the dates, it doesn't shift the entire system around. It is just a name used to fit with everyone. We should not use BC for example, which stands for Before Christ because 1) not everyone even believes Christ was a person, 2) Those who do may have their own names for the split 3) Some may have a different calandar system altogether. Just like there is no page claiming a True Prophet, the BC/AD system shouldn't be used because it does not apply to everyone.
But no matter who you are, what religion you are, The Era since the supposed time of Christ can easily be thought of as the recent, or Common Era. The era before that? Before the Common Era. NO ONE who truly understands that this is a nuetral postion should be upset by these abbr. (unless, like I said, they are looking to be offended or find an opportunity to preach their convictions and beliefs while bashing others).
In fact, Religious Nuetrality was the EXACT reason for this method. It has NOTHING to do with Atheism or Godlessness or whatever you want to call it. It is meant for ALL RELIGIONS. If there were a Non-Religious system then the date would have no split, and would start either from the beginning of the Universe or the Beginning of the Earth. (and besides, if it REALLY bothers you as a christian, just read it as BCE - Before Christ Existed and CE - Christ Exists)
But in all seriousness - anything but a nuetral position is in violation of the No Bias policy. If you think I am biased, then bring in a bunch of people who are neither Christian nor Non-Religious - since they have no bias, they are the best candidates to discuss a Nuetral System or the BC/AD system. Alex DeLarge 12:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is not an issue of Religion VS. Non-Religion