Talk:National Socialist black metal

message: New Sections: Intend to add information about the NSBM controversy among BM listeners in "NSBM in the Broader Black Metal Scene." In "National Socialism in Early Black Metal" will probably cite Burzum's "My Journey to the Stars", Darkthrone's "Jewish Behavior" and "Aryan Black Metal" stuff, etc. Suggest that if someone actually comes along and wants to add something that they do something along those lines. --68.6.244.91 06:03, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Sections 

message: About my edit: Eliminated the bit about about NSBM bands lacking an understanding as to the true meaning of "Aryan" (Criticism of Nazi useage of the term belongs in the entry about Aryans itself)
Also eliminated "Some believe that Christianity originated as a Jewish conspiracy to control Aryans to push their Zionist agenda forward." I think it should stay out unless someone can actually produce a source. I'm not an expert on NSBM but I've yet to hear the anti-christian thing put this way. Few more general attempts at improvement. --68.6.244.91 05:46, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's actually straight out of Nazi rhetoric. Most of them hated Christianity and endured it for practical reasons. Nietzsche also circumspectly refers to it as a Judean religion. www.anus.com 03:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletions 

message: Burzum's Black Metal albums aren't NSBM, altough his latter works (mostly electronic) could be called NS music. They are, however, not BM and thus Burzum can't be called NSBM music.
- Burzum's Black Metal albums aren't NSBM indeed. As i said beneath, Varg claimed to not even be socialist on a national level, so he cannot be linked to NSBM. I believe, however, in the period he called himself a "nazi" (which he later claimed was a politcally incorect term to use for his ideas). His "Ambient" keyboard albums are more related to his "heathen", or rather, Odalistic ideas. They are not National Socialistic! refernce: A Burzum Story: "The Nazi Ghost"
Darksteel 14:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I very much disagree. On the first album, 'Burzum' (self-titled), the lyrics "War between the races" can be found on the song 'My Journey to the stars'. Simply because the music isn't filled lyrically with mindless slogans, doesn't mean such music wasn't made to represent a certain ideology. Burzum is probably the founder of the NSBM genre. Nagelfar 04:06, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to give a better example than that one. The phrase appears at the end of the song, and the other lyrics have no such content. My interpretation is more of a general chaotic misanthropic feeling there at the end. It says: "Darkness, Hate and Winter Rules the Earth when I Return, War Between Races, A Goal Is Reached, Chaos, Hate". Lots of hate, but quite unfocused ;) --Unsound 17:36, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found page www.nbsm.org where burzum is listed as one of bands. 04:59, 08 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  Euronymous also practiced in a room decked out in both Communist and Nazi flags. www.anus.com 03:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burzum 

message: Though NSBM is different from the Black metal scene, it is still a subgenre right? Shouldn't the template be Black Metal instead of just Metal?
how can a nationa socialist be anti christianity? i mean, the church may not be the best thing of he world but it's a important weapon to destroy jews.
I'm glad I can find intelligent thoughts on this page... marnues 06:01, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Who traces rock to European folk music? Tuf-Kat 02:31, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anymore, mostly people who can't stand to think the music they love has any ties to African culture. Though it would be difficult to say European music isn't an influence. marnues 04:03, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Questions

message: unusual to find this here, because NSBM isnt even an official black metal subgenre. whether you like what i am about to say or not, i suggest this page to be deleted, because it is just a propaganda name used long ago during the black metal hype, as the media wanted everyone to be scared of black metal, saying it not only promotes satanism (which it does) and nazism (which doesnt). true, there are nazi bands out there, but they are not black metal, and do not play black metal music, whether it would be the lyrical or the musical style. it should be deleted because it isnt an offical genre, and pretty much every band in this nsbm list has no popularity, whether it'd be mainstream or in the metal underground. it is only known of through the nazi music underground. in my opinion, if this page wont be deleted, it should be put in a seperate page only, which specifies on nazi music in general, because this is not black metal. take this seriously please, as im not just some guy who doesnt like nsbm, im coming from a neutral perspective. Okram 09 (talk) 08:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You could always try and get it deleted I suppose, but given the huge amount of coverage the subgenre has received it would almost certainly get speedily kept. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:33, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: ??NSBM??

message: This article survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Splashtalk 00:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Articles for Deletion debate

message: If a band isn't famous enough to have a wikipedia entry, it isn't famous enough to be on this list. Other more popular genres might not have this distinction, but here it works wonderfully. marnues 08:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not a directory in that sense, however. - Tiswas(t) 14:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Famous Bands

message: This is starting to turn into a list. If the list is important, consider making a wikipedia list, with a link from this article to that list. Also, the current list should be shortened to the most notable bands. The first band to be in this genre would be a smart choice, and the ones with the most success.
I am going to tag this article for clean up, also, because of the list.-- ¢² Connor K.   13:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed Satanic Warmaster and Ad Hominem from the list, neither of these bands support NS ideologies although both band are extremely racist and do have lyrical themes that would lead them to be placed in the NSBM scene. Satanic Warmaster stated in a 2003 interview with Terrorizer that they were not NS and that it was a "common misconception" that they were. Ad Hominem states on their official Myspace: "DO NOT WRITE IF : You are not of european descent / You are into any kind of positive religion or politics / You are into "14 words" crap, loving life and believing in white man's rebirth / You are a degenerated scumbag metalhead just finding AH cool (for sure no one will recognize himself here!!)". As a side note I hope the irony of Ad Hominem's name becomes apparent when this is taken into account.
- while an openly racist act, Arghoslent play nothing like black metal, and so cannot be called NSBM. They should not be on an nsbm list
- Astrofaes seem not to be NSBM, but only  use Slavonic nationalist poetry as a base for their lyrics. They should be removed from the list.
- I deleted the bands that are not NSBM or that not have a source to prove it. 88.70.175.121 00:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Band list

message: "...NSBM might sound not much different from other metal sub-genres".
I don't understand this sentence fully. Is it meant to say "other BLACK metal sub-genres"? Surely even the avarage metal listener would be able to hear quiet a huge difference between NSBM and say Sepultura, Alice Cooper, Metallica or even "industrial" metal like Nine Inch Nails....? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.100.14.48 (talk) 12:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange sentence 

message: I disagree with the person who tagged Satanic Warmaster as a NSBM band when there lyrics focus on Facist Occultism and not Nazi ideologies. There are main differances between fascism and nazism. Explore the topics more clearer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ilirik666 (talk • contribs) 02:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Satanic Warmaster is not NSBM 

message: Not that it matters for purposes of this article, but Heydrich was not "head of the gestapo". Well, he was, kind of, but that is like saying the President of the US is the top postal official. Technically it is true (in the sense the President of the US can fire the Postmaster General, and Heydrich could fire the Head of the Geheimestaatspolizei), but it kind of minimizes the person's title. Heydrich was head of the RSHA (Reichsicherheithauptamt, Head Office of Reich Security) which contained the Geheimestaatspolizei("Gestapo"), Sicherheitdeinst (Heydrich's previous command before the RSHA was formed), and Kriminalpolizei (Kripo). 
In fact, to be technically exact, Müller was the head of the Gestapo, and Heydrich was his boss. So, I know it is way off topic, but I am going to make a slight alteration and change Heydrich from head of the Gestapo to head of the RSHA within the SS, which is what he really was. (After he was the head of the SD within the SS.)
Sorry, forgot to tack some tildes onto my last comment, so here goes: 76.100.205.82 02:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sort of OT, but still... 

message: I think so.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.211.47 (talk) 07:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neo-nazi? 

message: Apologies for the slight edit with rationale. I removed the sentence stating that NSBM is regarded as an ideology not a subgenre, as it is impossible to play black metal in a National Socialist way. The rationale was two-fold: firstly, it's an unsourced and potentially POV statement; secondly, there is considerable confusion as to the distinction between ideology and subgenre... for example, people seem to get upset by including "unblack" metal bands on the List of black metal bands, despite the fact that the difference in styles is purely ideological. To maintain consistency we should adopt a consensus opinion on matters like this. My tuppence is that ideology / lyrical content is actually a fairly important part of what makes a genre (or subgenre) a genre (or subgenre). Anyway, I'll leave it for now, but regardless of consensus it needs a decent source, as I reckon it's a pretty contentious (maybe even OR) statement to make. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 13:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Slight edit

message: We appear to have another rash of OR editing on this page. I appreciate that the whole article is a horrible mess anyway, but I am unconvinced that unsourced statements along the lines of "X is generally seen as Y within the scene" (even if this is true) are helpful to the article. This is a general plea to people to not add material to this, or any other article, without sources. This comment brought to you by no sleep and frustration at anonymous editors misunderstanding the difference between truth and verifiability. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:23, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: January 2009

message: There is a lot of vandalism on the page as of 10/3/09.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.138.34.209 (talk) 14:55, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: This article uses some lingo and writing clearly influenced by its own audience ("rapists", "pornographers" when referring to opponents). A more encyclopediac rewrite might be helpful.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.169.163.44 (talk) 03:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite? 

message: Why is there only one band listed? Not saying that we should turn the article into one big list, but if we're only going to list one band then we might as well just delete this portion completely.
207.233.102.21 (talk) 04:16, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: List of NSBM bands?

message: We should make a section of notable NSBM bands, no?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diefromevileye (talk • contribs) 18:33, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Bands 

message: NSBM is Black Metal with National Socialist ideas. Rock against communism is based on Punk, Oi!, and other rock related genres. It's absurd to call rock and metal the same thing. Although they both can have NS or Anti-Communist views, RAC music has many differences such as being more in favor of bar fights and toughness where NSBM has Pagan spiritual themes and explores a lot of idealism of NS. I'd also like to add that not all RAC artists are NS but most of them are White nationalist (And not all white nationalists are NS or claim to be NS). Derpian (talk) 03:48, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: NSBM ≠ RAC

message: Just having read a few parts of this article, I must say I am very impressed by how it deals with NSBM given how controversial the subject is and how few reliable resources there are on it as a whole; many interviews perhaps, but those do not necessarily apply to the whole. That could be improved upon, I suppose - the article has quite a few snippets from various artists rather than any general statements - but it's perfectly understandable, given the previous point. Very interesting topic, especially for any black metal fan. Definitely going to read the rest when I have time. 142.161.82.191 (talk) 03:00, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Quality

message: If NS black metal can have an article, why can't depressive black metal (DSBM) ?Second Skin (talk) 05:51, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The determining factor is how much DSBM is talked about in reliable sources. If you could find some good books or journal or magazine articles that talk about the style in-depth (not just a passing mention), then go ahead and create the article.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:10, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  DSBM 

message: Should Drudkh be listed? On the one hand, Olena Semenyaka of Politosophia names Nokturnal Mortum, Kroda, Drudkh, and Hate Forest as constituting "one of the most acclaimed NSBM scene in the world." However, a Sputnikmusic staff reviewer says that the band's label as NSBM is incorrect. The band distances itself from "extreme political views," at least in it's only press release dealing with the matter. Karl Spracklen in the article "True Aryan Black Metal" is neutral, commenting that "Drudkh are a Ukrainian pagan BM band, whose key members were also musicians in Hate Forest, a NSBM band" and "even if Drudkh are not National Socialist, they have fans who are." (90-91, 105-106 in the PDF nav bar) However, there's another article by Spracklen, "Leisure, Consumption and a Blaze in the Northern Sky: Developing an Understanding of Leisure at the End of Modernity through the Habermasian Framework of Communicative and Instrumental Rationality, which I cannot access, but which in my Google search brings up a quote "I'm not white but I can still appreciate lots of great NSBM from some awesome bands such as Burzum, Graveland, Drudkh, Kristallnacht and.." As I cannot read the article, I cannot tell whom Spracklen is quoting. My point is, some sources indicate that Drudkh is NSBM, while others say that Drudkh is not NSBM, and some consider it possible but make no clear-cut determination. The band itself never explicitly said that it isn't NSBM, which is telling, but claimed that it is not associated with extreme views.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:09, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Drudkh 

message: Varg Vikernes of Burzum likewise called Adolf Hitler a warrior of the Asgardsrei.[28]
Source not found, so it is an unverified atribution, must be removed.
:It is verified, but the link is dead. However, because it was verified, I was able to find an archive link.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 05:29, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Varg Vikernes 

message: Fellow editors, We currently have a List of artists section containing both notable (Wikipedia article exists) and non-notable (no Wikipedia article exists) artists.In accordance with the discussion Famous bands above, and WP:NOTDIRECTORY, I suggest we amend this to List of notable artists or similar; removing the non-notable artists. Thoughts? - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 00:34, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think we need to have "notable" in the list title - just remove entries that do not have citations.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 02:04, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 01:30, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of artists 

message: Fellow editors, the  Navbox had been added to the article. I have AGF reverted this, with the reasoning Rv AGF; while there is the obvious indirect link via National Socialism, not seeing a direct link to "Skinhead". I do not believe that there is sufficient direct link to warrant inclusion of NSBM in the Skinhead Navbox, nor the addition of the Navbox to this article. Thoughts? - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 05:17, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition of Navbox - Skinhead 

message: I've read the DNS interview and I don't see them saying they share "certain views of NSBM". They seem to reject the ideology and speak against ideas regarding the value of human beings being defined by their race, nationality and gender.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.169.73.114 (talk) 22:39, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I share the IP's concerns. The "certains views" quote is not found in the source; and the interview clearly does not support linking the band with NSBM. I will remove the section. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 23:07, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darkened Nocturn Slaughtercult 

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I have just modified 8 external links on National Socialist black metal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110927131014/http://www.maelstrom.nu/ezine/interview_iss50_224.php to http://www.maelstrom.nu/ezine/interview_iss50_224.php
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101002121928/http://thydoom.com/en/interviews/6.html to http://thydoom.com/en/interviews/6.html
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120630125512/http://www.summoning.info/Stuff/PoliticalStatements.html to http://www.summoning.info/Stuff/PoliticalStatements.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081024002551/http://www.globaldomination.se/interviews/watain-erik-danielsson to http://www.globaldomination.se/interviews/watain-erik-danielsson
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is a section that says: 
“The emergence of NSBM coincided with the rise of the early Norwegian black metal scene in the early 1990s, particularly through the band Burzum, whose sole member, Varg Vikernes, developed his anti-Christian beliefs into an increasingly white nationalist and neo-Nazi form of Heathenry.”
Burzum has never been associated with NSBM as it is defined within this very article above the quoted portion. Simply having certain beliefs does not make a band NSBM. You will not find any serious Black Metal fan who would say this, and no other history of the genre describes Burzum as NSBM. This should be removed from the article altogether. 2601:248:601:7270:B51E:7E66:EBAB:A75D (talk) 22:23, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccuracy regarding Burzum/Varg Vikernes 

message: NSBM is not only limited to the European countries. There are NSBM bands from several Latin American countries with both National So
ocialithemes and the Native American mythology (f.e. Nexcoyotl), there are a lot of NSBM bands from Asian countries like Vietnamese Vothana, Iranian Ātesh, Azerbaijani Nifret ifrət and several Turkish bands, Indian Dressed in Streams, Aghor Andhkar, Malaysian Barthafah belonging to broader Darah & Maruah scene, Chinese Aglare Light, Singaporean Qhafir even there are a Arab NSBM bands like the Emirati Blaspherion or Morroccan Eternal Krieg. There is even the Ethiopian NSBM band ደም  (Blood and Glory) or the Black nationalist NSBM band Darkskin and another bands from the other countries. So the description should be that NSBM has an ethnic supremacist theme rather than the exclusively white supremacist.እና ክብርደም እና ክብርNifrətĀteshĀteshst 91.230.98.220 (talk) 06:07, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  White supremacist?