Talk:Arabian horse/Archive 1

message: OK, I found my old version that someone deleted (probably because it was one of the darker times for the breed), and replaced the text. Really people, I'm not bashing arabs with the 1980s history, so please leave it in there! I also added in stuff about their lack of bascule, which is detrimental to their jumping. I love arabians, but they are a bit notorious for their sometimes poor jumping form (tight with the front legs, but too hollow). Please people, dont take out the bad stuff because you love your arabian! My old horse was an arab, and while she was an OK jumper, I'll be the first to admit that she definetly lacked bascule. Im trying to be unbiased.Eventer 28 February 2006
:The mention of jumping characteristics is valid.  But could you please explain what "splinter belly" means in the article, or, preferably, find another way to say it that the average well-informed reader can understand? P0M 05:39, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: No Longer Too Positive

message: Have made a sincere attempt to clean up, polish and consolidate the best points of the existing article.   There are many controversies surrounding Arabian horses and I attempted to put the most universally accepted, neutral viewpoint materials in one spot, while providing what I hope is a balanced discussion of the controversies within the breed.
I am thinking about how do deal with the genetic lethals issues...many breeds have them, will see if the Quarter Horse or Paint Horse articles discuss theirs at all...
There's a need to do more work on this article, but I'll keep an eye out for what gets added and try to wordsmith everything into something that won't get us slapped back on the cleanup list.
Montanabw 00:04, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup and Polished--maybe 

message: Thanks all who have made positive contributions to this article and especially those who did some really great formatting and cleanup work and fixed MY mistakes!  I do have a couple of comments, though.   
: 1.  This really isn't the place to promote your own animals, either testimonials like "my horse Susie is great" or pseudo-advertising like "here is a photo of my stallion, Ibn Terrific".  So, please only submit photographs of living animals to illustrate a point made in the article, and preferably without naming the actual horse (at least within the article).  And, actually, the page is already getting pretty image-heavy (mostly my fault, I admit, I love that old artwork!).  All we really still need is one very well-done body/conformation shot that clearly shows all relevant traits, preferably of an animal whose Arabian type and conformation isn't going to be controversial, and it is best that we DON'T use an image of a currently living horse.  
: 2.  Let's be VERY careful about naming specific horses, or even specific bloodline groups, and try to do so only when there's a really relevant purpose.  And if you must add a named horse, then at least please spell their name correctly and please be sure you make an accurate, verifiable and citable statement about the horse that has some relevance other than to just plug a certain set of bloodlines and say they are in lots of pedigrees (FYI, Zobeyni probably IS in about 90% of all Arabian pedigrees if you go back far enough.  That's why he gets to headline the article, OK?)
: 3.  Please don't break the Wiki links when you are editing.  If you edit a link, please physically check the link to be sure it still goes to the correct page...I don't know why a capitalization change breaks some links and not others, but it's a pain to keep fixing these.  
: 4.  This is just my opinion, but to keep the neutrality of tone we need, let's remember that there is a consensus that most Arabian Horse mythology and legend IS in fact closely linked to Islamic and especially Bedouin culture, and so let's just give Allah credit where its due, OK? <grin>  
Finally, if you have expertise on any other horse breeds, I noticed that a lot of those other breed pages are kind of a mess and need some help too!  The Quarter Horse page is practically a disaster, about where the Arabian page was a couple months ago.  So if anyone knows how to insert a cleanup tag over there... Montanabw 22:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk about recent edits

message: Stuff like the following needs to be more neutral:
:The Arabian horse is known as one of the most beautiful breeds of horses, with outstanding stamina and intelligence. The Arabian is one of the most popular horse breeds in the world...
Instead of saying the horse is beautiful, describe specifically what it looks like.  For example, instead of saying it is popular, cite statistics on population.
Montanabw 21:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not with Arabian horses, I don't think.  Most people who love them, like me, also develop considerable respect for Bedouin culture and at least a passing understanding of Islam, because it was so inextricably intertwined with the development of the breed of horse.  The controversy with Arabian horses is essentially one between those of us who find them friendly, value their hardiness and enjoy their intelligence versus those who think they are weak or unmanagable animals.  I don't know if people who dislike Arabian horses have a generalized anti-Arab thing going on or not.  I don't believe the two are related.  No one who has critized my horses has ever done so from that angle--they just say ignorant and inaccurate things about Arabian horses.Montanabw 03:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions 

message: Hi Folks, let's try to minimize the "here's me and my pony" photos. And if you absolutely MUST upload photos, keep them at least as small as the ones already there.
I think it would be best that we not use images of currently living horses. (there are two there now, and they are OK but not ideal) I would like someone with ownerfhip of a photo to upload ONE very nice conformation shot of a classic, correctly-conformed "generic" Arabian, preferably of a no-longer-living animal, but still in color and taken in the animal's prime of life.  And maybe one shot of Arabians in costume at the Tournament of Roses parade.Montanabw 16:22, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updates since June 1, 2006 

message: I have reverted the deletion of the picture of a young lady riding bareback for two reasons.  
(1) Deleting on the grounds that "bareback riding is dangerous" depends on the editor's own point of view. Riding without a helmet really is dangerous. Within a few miles of where that photograph was taken I saw the only really dangerous riding accident. I should say potentially dangerous because everybody kept their heads and Col. Sysin, the riding instructor, calmed the horse before the rider was dragged anywhere. We were jumping in the outdoor jumping area. The best student rider (who obviously was well trained before he ever got on campus) was riding a very nice horse. The horse shied from something and threw his rider to the left, but with his right boot caught in his stirrup. So he was hanging from the stirrup strap that had gone horizontally over the saddle and could not release.  So saddles with stirrups that don't have a "break-out" function can be dangerous too. People get seriously injured when they ride without helmets and get their head whacked at high speeds. People get seriously injured when they participate in activities like jumping and racing.  Riding bareback in a responsible way is good training for riding on balance. Deleting pictures on the grounds that something might be dangerous would eliminate most of the pictures for this article because handlers and riders are not wearing helmets. 
(2) Deleting on the grounds that the horse doesn't look like an Arabian is to imply that the person who posted the picture didn't know what he was talking about. Editors do not perform the functions of researchers -- or of conformation judges. Somebody might have some doubts about the breed of the horse in the picture, if for no other reason than that the photo is not clearly focused, but the objective observer would just say that determination on the basis of that one photo is inadquate. If we sent the picture to a qualified conformation judge somewhere s/he would probably say, "I can't tell for sure. Show me better photos, and photos from other angles."  
The picture wasn't hurting anybody and was showing one more way that horses interact with human beings. P0M 17:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That really is a cranky little Arab mare, one I once knew well, and I have photos of her from other angles that show the dished face.  She was from one of the endurance lines, rather than being a show Arab.  It's not a posed picture; the rider was on a trail ride, two miles from the barn.  I put that in to show that riding is not about equipment; it's about having a solid working relationship with the horse.  Which is what temperament is all about.  --John Nagle 18:27, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry I ever put that picture in.  It was a mistake.  --John Nagle 19:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  And I'm sorry if I got too snarky!  Montanabw 19:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bareback riding a non-Arabian?