Talk:St Ives (UK Parliament constituency)

message: I have reverted the edits of anonymous editor 109.154.234.12  to restore the 1950s description I had made in edits on 15 Oct 2014. Because of this recent edit, the onus is probably on me to explain more fully my original edit; Greville Howard was a Conservative Party politician who first stood for parliament at Portsmouth North in 1945 as a Conservative, something that is not disputed by any of the main historical sources. During the 1950s in St Ives, he adopted a dual party description as that had been the local tradition since 1937. The Times House of Commons of 1950 and 1951 uses the label 'Conservative & National Liberal' and from 1955 onwards 'National Liberal & Conservative'. On wikipedia, we are able to describe candidates as 'National Liberal' or as 'Conservative' but not as a combination of the two in any order. Given the choice, describing Howard as a Conservative is more accurate than describing him as a 'National Liberal' or even as a 'Liberal National' as the anonymous editor did. Graemp (talk) 14:45, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Gaemp I think the anon editor may be correct in this. From memory I think FWS Craig - Parliamentary 1950-1970 lists Howard as National Liberal, though its several years since I read this so I'm not 100% sure. I do know Howard was selected by a joint meeting of the National Liberals and Conservatives of which the Liberals formed the larger part and he did sit as part of the National Liberal grouping in the HoC until 1966. That Howard was 100% a Conservative from his initial candidacy 1945 cannot be doubted but then so were all the other National Liberals of this period. In the end I think the main factor is that Howard chose to sit as a National Liberal and was selected mainly by National Liberals that we should list him here as one. Regards  - Galloglass 08:49, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that National Liberals may have formed a majority of those at a joint selection meeting is interesting but not strictly relevant to any label that was used. I disagree with "so were all the other National Liberals of this period". I did check Craig who described him as C. in 1945 and NL&C. from 1950-1964. However, the problem with Craig is that he standardized the description in this way for all these types of candidates, including Lloyd-George in Pembroke in 1950, even though there was no local National Liberal organisation in existence. I have also checked my copy of Dods from 1957, Dods went to the point of making a distinction in the 1955 election results and described him as C&NL, compared to say Renton who was described as NL&C. To muddy things slightly, Dutton in his history of the party refers briefly to him once, inferring him as a National Liberal. These things were less than straightforward to define in the 1950s and probably no easier in the 2010s. Graemp (talk) 12:48, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

text: I should also add that John Nott also initially sat as a National Liberal, not a Conservative in 1966.  - Galloglass 08:53, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: As the anon edit did not change Nott I did not address it, but the situation seems the same as for Howard from 1955. Graemp (talk) 12:48, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Party description of Greville Howard

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