Talk:Anarcha-feminism/Archive 1

message: Hey, I was thinking that there should be a list/category of women anarchists in history (as distinct from theorists calling themselves "anarcha-feminist" because that term is quite new). Any comments? An An 02:34, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A list would be nice, but I don't like the idea of categorizing people by sex (as it overemphasizes gender differences). I'm also not sure if we could justify having a "List of anarchist women" when we already have a "List of anarchists", since we'd be repeating ourselves unless we completely cut the "List of anarchists" in half by gender, which isn't an idea I much like. Sarge Baldy 04:15, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Women anarchists 

message: ''
This is more developed and in-depth than the Anarcha-fem page is. I'm dumping it here for reference. It'd be good to keep the articles in line. An An 02:41, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stuff from main anarchist article 

message: It seems there's a slight distinction between anarcha-feminism, which stresses anarchism, and anarchist feminism, which usually (but not always) stresses feminism. The terms overlap quite a lot, but I could also see keeping a separate article for the two topics. As it is, this article tends to overlook feminists using anarchism as their basis of criticism. What makes sense to other people? Sarge Baldy 04:09, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By the definition in the intro (and simple logic), anyone who is both anarchist and feminist is an anarcha-feminist. (It is irrelevant when the term was coined. The discussion below is ridiculous.)  anarchist feminist = anarcha-feminist PhilLiberty 04:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Anarchist feminism

message: And now, back to what we were really discussing! That wasn't, in case you would care, not about Blahblahblahblahblahblah's former aliases, MrVoluntarist's possible former aliases, or whether said MrV knows Blah from real life or not. The topic of our discussion was, and should be, anarcha-feminism.
So, what I can gather from your long, mainly off topic, posts is that
# You're both good at using a lot of words without ever actually getting to the point.
# You're both good at subtly insulting each other.
# Gustave de Molinari explicitly rejected the term "anarchist" (as it carried socialist connotations)
# Emma Goldman and Voltairine de Cleyre are, due to a case of bad wording, implied to be anarcha-feminists
# Emma Goldman and Voltairine de Cleyre are, undeniably, anarchist feminists
# MrVoluntarist does not want Emma Goldman and Voltairine de Cleyre to be referred to as anarcha-feminists
# Blahblahblahblahblahblah does not want Emma Goldman and Voltairine de Cleyre to be referred to as anarcha-feminists
Is this all correct? Oh, and when replying, please refrain from referring to each other with now un-used usernames. If Blahblahblahblahblahblah's signature and userpage header says his alias is "Blahblahblahblahblahblah", then it is, no matter the names of past incarnations of his account. Likewise for MrVoluntarist's possible former aliases. This as per the Wikipedia standard that I should not be called  83.233.5.170 just because I once edited under that "alias".
Sincerely, Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 21:10, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, that all seems correct.  Blahblahblahblahblahblah 22:01, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, then we can work on removing the implications that Cleyre and Goldman were anarcha-feminists so as to have a standard that allows you to satisfy your worldview which requires you to believe no one held the philosophy now known as anarcho-capitalism before Rothbard. MrVoluntarist 22:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:   You really don't know when to quit Mr V.  Blahblahblahblahblahblah 22:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Dear sir (MrVoluntarist), I must agree with Blahblahblahblahblahblah here - can we agree on leaving Rothbard out of anarcha-feminism? Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 02:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: An important aspect of anarcha-feminism is its opposition to traditional conceptions of family, education, and gender roles. The institution of marriage is one of the most widely attacked, not only by anarcha-feminists but also anarchist feminists in general. De Cleyre argued that it stifled individual growth, and Goldman argued that it condemns women "to life-long dependency, to parasitism, to complete uselessness, individual as well as social." Anarcha-feminists have also argued for non-hierarchical family and educational structures, and had a prominent role in the creation of the Modern School in New York City, based on the ideas of Francesc Ferrer i Guàrdia.
It cites three anarchists, of which two were also feminists (at least judging by their articles here on Wikipedia). No anarcha-feminist is however cited. Unfortunately (for us, in this case), it doesn't exactly lie within the nature of the anarchist ideologies to produce official ideologicians and thinkers, unlike communism has (or had) a tradition of doing. Perhaps, however, we could dig up some other sources for this? Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 02:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: For the record -- the terms "feminism" and "anarchafeminism" were not really current at the time of Goldman & De Cleyre. Both identified themselves as anarchists and have been identified as feminists and anarcha-feminists. In fact De Cleyre expressly identified herself as an "anarchist without adjectives". They were making a major anarcha-feminist critique -- that is, an anarchist critique of issues of concern to feminists. I believe the term really came about from the 1960s/1970s women's movement as feminist activists sought to identify a particular strand of radical feminist critique, and looked to Goldman, De Cleyre, and other anarchists who were speaking on feminist issues. --lquilter 14:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: And now, back to what we were really discussing!

message: Two problems with the Criticisms section:
# The section has only criticism of the name - anarcha- vs. anarcho- feminism, and lacks any other criticism of substance.  In doing so, it suggests that other criticisms do not exist.  I'm sure there are some.
# The discussion of naming should probably be in some kind of sub-section; otherwise its own importance is elevated inappropriately.
Now, if only I had some ideas about the standing criticsms on the topic, I could actually be useful!
JBazuzi 05:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: JBazuzi, your 100% correct.  The current criticism section is probably original research.  It should be remoed and replaced with a reliably sourced criticism of anarcha-feminism/anarcho-feminism--Cailil 18:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the entire section as per WP:OR. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 01:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticisms of Criticisms 

message: We need some prominent anarcha-feminists listed in the article, preferable with links to their Wikipedia articles. PhilLiberty 04:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. McElroy is not the only one, of course. I also did a minor rewrite of the material PhilLiberty inserted about McElroy and individual feminism. See Talk:Feminism for further explanation, but basically to my knowledge McElroy is the foremost proponent of "i-feminism", and so I contextualized the material that way, and also reworded a somewhat awkwardly phrased (and slightly misleading) reference to differences in Europe & US. --lquilter 14:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contemporary Anarcha-feminists 

message: The last two sentences of the intro paragraph don't belong in the intro, in my opinion. It should go later in the article, perhaps as its own section. --Billyjoekini 21:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Done. --lquilter 23:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Individualist anarchist feminism 

message: Early feminist Mary Wollstonecraft held proto-anarchist views, and William Godwin, her husband, is often considered an important precursor to anarchist feminism. - 
*I have removed this sentence for the time being. I am not convinced that reliable sources could be found to support it, particularly in the case of Wollstonecraft. I have read a fair bit on MW (see bibliographies on Mary Wollstonecraft and the pages on her works) and none of these sources makes a point of emphasizing her proto-anarchism. Godwin is often considered a proto-anarchist, if not an anarchist, but rarely have I seen him classified as a feminist (see caption on Fanny Imlay). I think the more precise formulation might be that others took Godwin's works to their logical extreme while he did not. However, I do not have any sources on this - I am only speculating because these statements are so at odds with what I have read. Historians of feminism and anarchism might read the past differently than the literary critics and biographers I have read so far. Until we have some solid evidence for these claims, I feel it is best to remove them. Awadewit | talk 14:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly the "Mary Wollstonecraft held proto-anarchist views" is a new to me.  I've not come across anything saying that before either--Cailil  talk 14:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sketchy sentence 

message: Is Anarcha-feminism considered to be a form of social anarchism?--Fang 23 (talk) 15:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never come across a reference that says so, and I would be wary about including it as it is a form of anarchism primarily characterised by feminism, rather than the manner of social co-operation that characterises anarcho-syndicalism, collectivist anarchism and anarcho-communism. Incidently, would you be interested in summarizing Anarcha-feminism for the Anarchist schools of thought article, similar to what you did for National-Anarchism? Regards, Skomorokh incite 15:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I think I will summarize Anarcha-feminism in Anarchist schools of thought article (maybe tomorrow or another day or today im not sure exactly when).--Fang 23 (talk) 16:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Much appreciated, thanks. Skomorokh incite 16:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done!--Fang 23 (talk) 04:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Social anarchism 

message: The link to RAG website is broken - there is a temporary blogspot in operation ragdublin.blogspot.com but wikipedia won't let me put it in - cos it's a blogspot? 83.70.54.90 (talk) 18:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken Link 

message: Y'all do know that the "o" in "anarcho" when it's linked with another word, such as in "anarcho-capitalism" is actually a genderless CONNECTING VOWEL, not a suffix indicative of gramatical gender such as "os" in say... "anarchikos" in Greek? Right? And they say women have better linguistic skills... Let me just throw here "anarcho-feminia" or "anarcho-feminy" wich might just have done the trick.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omulurimaru (talk • contribs) 19:54, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Illiteracy 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Could we get a possible etymology for the term 'Anarcha-feminism'? I notice that the first published usage of the term 'feminist anarchist' was in 1970, yet there is no clear origin for the 'anarcha' prefix, which I think is important since English doesn't inflect for gender in nouns, i.e, 'anarcho-feminism' isn't like Spanish where the -o is indicative of masculine gender.
Stevo D (talk) 13:05, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Anarcha" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I barely know enough about this to ask the question: should there be some mention of Italian and/or Italian-American anarcha-feminists? E.g. Maria Roda, Ernestina Cravello, Ersilia Cavedagni and others with connections to Paterson, NJ. --MopTop (talk) 15:22, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italians 

message: Per WP:BLP, we require published, reliable sources for any characterization of living people.  the people in the image at right as anarchists because they are displaying anarcha-feminist symbolism is obvious WP:SYNTH. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 10:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps a better caption might be "anarchist and anarcha-feminist flags being displayed at Cologne Pride"? And yes, the A-in-circle/Venus symbol hybrid is a pretty clear symbol of anarcha-feminism. -- The Anome (talk) 11:01, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:   I could create a collage of different images, so a protest, the flag of anarcha feminism and some more image, maybe of Emma Goldman. Also the flag you used was of queer anarchism not of anarcha feminism, just a heads up. Anarcha feminism is purple.Vallee01 (talk) 11:07, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The lower half of the flag in the image at right looks purple to me. The Venus symbol certainly suggests a variety of feminism. This is actually a perfect demonstration of the perils of interpreting images without published descriptions to draw on. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 11:14, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

text:  That's better, but I would omit being displayed as trivial info and unnecessary passive voice. See the caption I . —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 11:10, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image caption 

message: "Anarcho-feminism" is the strangest ideology I have ever heard of. This isn't about the article, I just wonder, why is anarcho-feminism a thing? Frogface08 (talk) 10:26, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: What? Anarcha feminism is a way of viewing the state and all unjustified system as inherently patriarchal and oppressive. This includes capitalism and other such things, however this is a talk page on the discussion itself. Vallee01 (talk) 11:32, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is this a thing? 

message: * 
Could be useful for building the article. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 05:31, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kowal, 2019 

message: I removed the following from the article earlier in an edit that I have now self-reverted, since it was made through the protection by mistake. It removed this image and caption:
:
My rationale is that there is no evidence that the protests were anarcha-feminist, only that anarcha-feminists were present (or, in the case of one image, impliedly present, since the actual holders of the anarcha-feminist flags are not actually visible in the image), and moreover that other, non-anarcha-feminist symbols are also in evidence. Add to this the existence of German personality rights laws, and you've got good reason to remove the image. -- The Anome (talk) 11:10, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you! Great act of good faith. Vallee01 (talk) 11:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps then it could be stated "anarcha feminist flags" or something else, it displays the Venus symbol, queer anarchism, anarcho syndicalism (a bisected red/black flag can be seen), and anarcha feminism all in one shot with a protest. Vallee01 (talk) 11:18, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected edit request 

message: Your issue with the image is completely subjective, it is literally a banner stating "Queer anarchism." Revert. Vallee01 (talk) 22:31, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume you mean :File:Queer Anarchist CSD Berlin 2020.jpg. You're right, I do subjectively think the subjects are hard to make out, partly because the foreground figures are under-exposed. Please indicate where MOS:IMAGES gives objective rules about something like this. Overall, a banner that mostly just replicates words already in the text doesn't do a good job of illustrating the topic IMO. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 22:39, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  The image shows Queer anarchist protest that is it. It is a good illustration. If your only argument is "I don't think it looks good," that's not a valid justification for removing it. It says Queer anarchism, it is a good illustration end of story. Vallee01 (talk) 23:12, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Per MOS:IMAGES, Poor-quality images—dark or blurry; showing the subject too small, hidden in clutter, or ambiguous; and so on—should not be used unless absolutely necessary. It isn't just a banner, it's people holding a banner. Naturally readers are going to want to be able to clearly make out people in the image when those people are relevant to the main subject. This image is poor-quality in that regard. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:20, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

text:  I've uploaded a new version of the image that addresses some of the problems I mentioned. But I don't think every section needs an image of a random protest march.  is a separate topic, and anarcha-feminism is more than simply a protest movement, as I've said before on this page. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:37, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Image on Queer anarchism

message: Hi, could I put the action of Wimmin's Fire Brigade ([[Squamish_Five]) relating to firebombing of Red Hot Video and it's subsequent affects onto this page? If so, where? Thanks. W1tchkr4ft 00 (talk) 14:22, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Wimmin's Fire Brigade

message: — Preceding unsigned comment added by ACHorwitz (talk • contribs) 18:33, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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