Talk:GNK Dinamo Zagreb

message: Miroslav Ciro Blazevic identety should be resolved! I have added a couple of times the Bosnian flag next to the Croatian with his name, but has been deleted. Upon taking the duty of the coach of Bosnia and Herzegovina national team, Ciro has referred to Bosnia has his homeland (after all, he was born in Bosnia). Ciro is a Bosnian Croat, and as such should have both flags next to his name, with respect the Croatian being first. Please do not remove the Bosnian flag next time. Thanks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.92.152.149 (talk) 20:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miroslav Blazevic 

message: Is the official name once more Dinamo, and if so, when was it restored? 83.70.110.198 08:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: Can someone with more knowledge than me about NK Dinamo Zagreb have a look at edits by User:Sirboboss42 on 2 August 2007? That user appears to making doubtful edits on other articles. Thanks.--82.148.54.182 19:09, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Edits needing review

message: I noticed that it says on Otto Barić's article that he coached Dinamo in the period 1976-1980, but there's no mention od him at that time at Dinamo in Dinamo's article. This should be resolved. Can anyone provide a link to a verified source listing Dinamo's past managers? Timbouctou (talk) 19:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Former coaches issue

message: The article on Dinamo is too centred around recent events. So I know I could get on and write something myself, but maybe a little about the past would not go amiss. THe club was founded in 1945 after all. Check out the Hajduk page to see what I mean.  
'''
Dinamo is the successor of the NK Građanski which was founded on 26 April 1911. The club is celebrating its 100th anniversary next year. This date is also present on the UEFA website as the official date of the club's foundation. Any informaton provided by the HNK Hajduk website or other sources linked with Hajduk is BIASED and INCORRECT!!!'''
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.91.116.226 (talk) 22:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I agree. There is hardly any mention of Dinamo's history prior to 1990. I'll try to make the article more balanced in the coming days and add some content on the club's history, although I expect some resistance from the usual anonymous editors who like to jabber on and on how Građanski and Dinamo are one and the same, how Matekalo and co. joined Partizan in 1946 or how 33 percent of the "population" (even though that statistic cites a poll which doesn't say how large was the pollled group), and all that rather irrelevant crap. Dinamo Zagreb deserves a decent article. Timbouctou (talk) 15:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

text: I agree, too. I've finished the History of NK Dinamo Zagreb (2000–present), I'll try to make something like 1945–1990 section and maybe even a separate article should I have will and time. About the polls, I also think they're irrelevant, because the numbers  are over-exaggerated, saying that 1.5 million people support it, when in fact we all know that's not true (the average attendance is the proof). I'm for that sentence to be removed or changed to something like "It is one of the two most popular clubs in Croatia along with Hajduk Split." or something like that. About the Origins section that's often vandalised, I've edited it a bit and I think it looks decent now, though it's hard to make it sound neutral to Građanski because of the heritage recieved from the club. Mrcha (talk) 23:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: I think its unnecessary and irrelevant to point out Hitrec and Kacian's achievements in the Youth school description. Maybe adding information about youth selections and youth development in the school would be a good idea. Mrcha (talk) 23:55, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Youth school

message: On todays assembly, it was announced that Dinamo changed it's prefix from NK to GNK (Građanski nogometni klub).  Furthermore, they insist that they are the successors of Građanski and that in 2011 they celebrate 100th anniversary. Should we change the name of the article from NK Dinamo Zagreb to GNK Dinamo Zagreb? Dr. Vicodine (talk) 17:45, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You are absolutely right. I had reverted the edits thinking it was a joke. Can't believe something as idiotic as this could have happened. I'm shocked. Well, I guess we have to move the article and update the lead. Timbouctou (talk) 17:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've self-reverted and expanded the lead a bit to explain the name changes. This is a temporary solution, a proper subsection dealing with the naming controversies of the past and present should be written from scratch, I'll find some time to do it these days. But I refuse to agree to merge trophies and manager history from the Građanski Zagreb article, let alone adding Građanski seasons to the List of NK Dinamo Zagreb seasons. This is just plain insane! Timbouctou (talk) 18:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it's absurd. It's like they are forcing the idea of 100-year-old club. They celebrated 60 years in 2005 , and now they are going to 100. From 2005 Dinamo official page (wayback machine History from 1903-2000): "Today's Dinamo continues the tradition of the famous clubc HAŠK, Građanski, Dinamo and Croatia. The oldest of those, HAŠK, was formed od November 6th 1903 as a students club, and Građanski was formed on 26th of April 1911 as a club for all social circles. After te WW2 when communists came to power, both famous Zagreb club were disbanded overnight, and the municipal club was formed. Like many more communist clubs in Eastern Europe, it was also called DINAMO. This happened on the 9th of June 1945. ... During the 97 years, the club won 26 trophies: 17 championships, 11 national Cups, and in 1967, the Fairs Cup."  So is it 1903, 1911 or 1945? Which source is the definitive one: what Dinamo states or what football historians say? Dr. Vicodine (talk) 18:33, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It was discussed earlier and I wrote a long post about it here. In my opinion only the sports governing body has the authority to make the final verdict, and I know for a fact that between 1945 and 1991 the Football Federation of Yugoslavia officially considered Dinamo to have been founded in 1945, and it was the club's official stance during that period. This whole farce began in mid-1991. The problem here is that a) the Croatian Football Federation stays silent on the matter, b) the today's club claims that they have nothing to do with Croatia Zagreb legally-wise  - so is it 1903, 1911, 1945 or 2000? and c) the only "historians" who published books about this are Fredi Kramer and Ozren Podnar. Podnar claims that the two clubs are one and the same for some time now and Kramer claimed all three years (1903, 1911, 1945), depending what the regime of the day wanted. But fact of the matter is that there's a plaque standing today on the Elektra building in downtown Zagreb which clearly says that "in this building FD Dinamo Zagreb was founded on 6 June 1945". Not renamed, not re-established, not merged - but founded. Are they going to tear it down now? This is all happening just because Mamić has an inferiority complex and cannot stand the fact that Hajduk celebrated their centennial two months ago. As a rule of thumb we are supposed to follow whatever the football association or the official club history says, but I will work hard to bend the rules on this one. Timbouctou (talk) 19:01, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry to follow you Timbou, but this is interesting. Dinamo did represented the continuation of Građanski, but officialy it was a new team formed in 1945. I mean, next we´ll have Red Star claiming Jugoslavija´s legacy and so on... They talked about some joined league (Mamic and Lukic), who knows if this was not on the table as well? For exemple, UEFA gives some prices for centenary clubs competing in top leagues, that is why the FFS is pushing BASK this year to focebly win the Second League so it gets promoted. Good old style yugo football "rules, what rules?" FkpCascais (talk) 19:39, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Oh I just happen to be familiar with the rather unique story of a club which managed to exist for over 45 years without anyone connected to it ever realizing that it was actually 34 years older. Or the unique club supporters who desperately fought for the "holy name" of Dinamo in the 1990s, only to realise some 15 years later that the name "Gradjanski" is even holier. Or that the club itself claimed to have been founded in 1945, 1903 or 1911, depending on which version of Fredi Kramer's book you read. Or that there's a bronze plaque standing in downtown Zagreb in direct contradiction to what the club officially says as of 2011. Timbouctou (talk) 13:53, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree. The only reliable secondary source (e.g. not coming from the club itself) that I know of, the Nogometni leksikon published by the Miroslav Krleža Lexicographical Institute says that Dinamo was founded on 9 June 1945. Let's follow them wiki rules shall we? Timbouctou (talk) 13:28, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  GNK Dinamo Zagreb 

message: Hi people,
change the date of establishment of 9th June 1945 in 26th April 1911, please!
Thank You!
M.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.144.254 (talk) 20:04, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of Establishment 

message: GNK Dinamo Zagreb
Formed: 1911
Nickname: Modri
History
• GNK Dinamo Zagreb were founded in 1911 as 1. HŠK Građanski. They won five league titles before being disbanded by the Yugoslav Communist Party and reformed, in homage to FC Dinamo Moskva, as Dinamo Zagreb in June 1945. --Rovoobo oboovoR 08:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That was probably the result of them qualifying to the Champions League group stage :) Dr. Vicodine (talk) 08:56, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it was a matter of time I guess. UEFA does not get into details about foundation dates and simply relies on their correspondents to supply that info. Having said that, it still does not erase the fact that as late as the 2010-11 season UEFA's official yearbook listed Dinamo as having been founded in 1945 (data supplied by Zdravko Reić) and our article must explain this discrepancy. Also, I might add that whoever wrote the new profile on UEFA.com heavily relied on Croatian Wikipedia because Građanski is not spelled "1. HŠK Građanski" anywhere else. Timbouctou (talk) 15:37, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

text: UEFA as an organization did not changed anything, only one of the Croatian correspondents (Elvir Islamović is one of them) did and I am pretty sure that this minor update is not the official standpoint of UEFA organization. How could it be, since until couple of months ago they themselves had 1945 inscribed as foundation year. At the very least a footnote should be implemented next to the foundation date in the infobox, explaining the whole story (the truth basicly). The picture of a plaquet on Elektra building could be used in the article as well. Lp, Ratipok (talk) 13:58, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: UEFA changed date of est.

message: Hi everyone. I read last conversations about history and founding year and I can see that reviews of editors are very divided. But I have to notice something. GNK Dinamo is quite big and known football club in European frameworks and from this aspect it is fatuously to have different founding years and origins on this and others Wikipedia pages. Furthermore, there will be a difference between this page and other well-known football pages on Internet who have a trend to accept 1911 year as founding year for GNK Dinamo. Even big football clubs congrats a centenary of Zagreb's club. GNK Dinamo will become more recognizable because of likely playing in Uefa CL or EL in upcoming years. Therefore, it is important to have good image without confusions. I haven't purpose to repeat all historical facts cause they're presented in last posts of editors. So, I suggest that we change infobox, set up 1911 as a founding year and 1945 as a year since Dinamo has got current name. If I will get an approval, I will harmonize origin years. All of you will be welcome to check it and put your opinions. I think that is a right way to improve this theme for our pleasure.
Best regards, Billiboom (talk) 16:29, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. We must rely on reliable sources for every fact we state, and articles must conform to WP:V. And up until as recently as 2011 UEFA, Croatian FA, and the club itself claimed that Dinamo's foundation date was 1945. This is also true for the best known part of the club's history in Yugoslavia, between 1945 and 1990. In fact, the only periods in which 1945 was questioned as its foundation date (along with the accompanying idea that it is in fact a successor of Građanski) was in the early 1990s (when club's officials had claimed that it had really been founded in 1903) and again since 2011 until present (when the idea that it was in fact founded in 1911 interestingly coincided with their greatest rivals' centenary). So out of the last 68 years the club itself had claimed to be a direct descendant of Građanski for a total of 2 (two) years. Great many publications have been published in those 60+ years, all describing Dinamo as an entity founded in 1945, and the clubs' current claim is based solely on some very creative interpretations of historic events. As a compromise, we could maybe put in both dates in infobox (as the Croatian wiki has done it) since it is indeed a fact that the club claims this today. But who can guarantee that Zdravko Mamić might decide tomorrow that the club was really founded in 1815 and throws a big party celebrating its two centuries next year? All these discrepancies must be accounted for and explained in an encyclopedic article, which is what we are trying to do here. Timbouctou (talk) 14:59, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

text: "Political pressure" or not, the fact that the club itself spent 45 years claiming in its own publications signed by Fredi Kramer that it had been founded in 1945 is something we cannot ignore and must be explained per WP:V. That the Croatian and Yugoslav FA agreed with this date for 45 years is also something we cannot ignore. In addition, the fact that as recently as 2011 UEFA reprinted that year in its own yearbook in Dinamo Zagreb's profile is also something that must be explained. If a person reading this article on Wikipedia looked up any book in a library about this topic for fact checking, they would see that 90% of all sports books covering this topic say that Dinamo had been founded in 1945. And there are even memorials and plaques like the this one here which have literally set 1945 as club's foundation date in stone. Granted, the fact that the club decided to change its birthdate in 2011 is something that should be mentioned. But pretending that it had been like that since 1911 would be a blatant distortion. Saying it's all very unfortunate and unjust isn't really an argument - it is an opinion. And we don't deal with opinions. Timbouctou (talk) 18:38, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but you're talking all the time about facts that belong to the past. We're now living in 2013 and if some changes are confirmed, we have to respect them. Publications, articles, plaques - all connected with 1945 - ok, no one prejudice this but history of club didn't start with 1945. As you always mention that Yu FA and club managment claimed that founding year is 1945, and it was unquestionably legally, than you have to admit today claim as legally. Related to UEFA official articles, please look at this . In UEFA yearbook 2011 there was different founding year but today is another, and no one discuss anymore about it. If this isn't enough for you, than also look these sites: , ,  and so on... There are also many websites who confirm this fact and their number present us a sign that founding year 1911 isn't doubtful anymore. (, ,...) And one example for the end. The biggest club in Europe, Real Madrid CF, is founded in 1902 as Madrid Football Club. In 1920 new club management supported by King Alfonso XIII has changed club's name, club's emblem and after a certain time club's stadium.  A very similar situation as well as GNK Dinamo. And today, which is the founding year of Real Madrid? Of course, 1902. The history of club can't be broken and forgotten just like that. Billiboom (talk) 20:26, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: On Wikipedia we deal with facts as reported by reliable sources. We have tons of sources published between 1945 and 2011 in Croatia and abroad saying Dinamo Zagreb is an entity established in 1945. On the other hand we have club's own claim, reprinted by UEFA et al, that it had been founded in 1911, which is a recent invention and which began to be disseminated in the last couple of years. In essence the vast majority of sources you can find on shelves of any Croatian library will tell you that the club had been founded in 1945. The fact that somebody decided to change it two years ago does not mean that everyone in the last 50 years was wrong or that literally hundreds of books which reprinted that piece of information have somehow magically disappeared because Zdravko Mamić decided to finally see the light. What you are arguing for here is not reporting history but re-writing it, and that is WP:OR. In addition, even if we agree to disagree, the issue of the club's foundation is controversial and there were many articles published in the media explaining how and why the claim that Dinamo is a direct successor of Građanski is questionable. In fact the only two people advocating for this idea are Ozren Podnar and Fredi Kramer, who are both semi-reliable amateur sports historians. In any case, you need to explain to Wikipedia readers how come almost every single paper book printed between 1945 and 2011 claims one thing while the club today claims otherwise per WP:V. Do you understand that? Do you understand that we cannot rewrite history any time a club changes president or a new political party comes into power? Do ypu understand that a vast body of sources that have been created in over 60 years will not just disappear simply because somebody decided to change interpretations of historic events as recently as 2011? Timbouctou (talk) 21:34, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: "We have tons of sources...", "vast majority", "vast body of sources", but how is than impossible that I as a Wiki reader can't find one single source on this Wiki page who will confirm your thesis? If we look at notes, references or external links, it is clear that there is none source who explanate about as 1945 as a founding year. And what now, what about your constantly talking that I'm not following WP:V? A same thing is on Croatian Wiki where the main source for advocate an idea of 1945 is an article  who definitely doesn't satisfie the criteria of WP:V. Moreover, grotesquely, in external links on Croatian Wiki is put page  which cleary says that founding year is 1911, but in infobox is written year 1945 as a year of foundation?! In addition, related to Fredi Kramer, you call him (and Ozren Podnar) "semi-reliable amateur sports historians" when he advocate an idea of 1911 but on the other hand he is desireable when there are "publications signed by Fredi Kramer that it had been founded in 1945". A little more objectivity is very welcome... Billiboom (talk) 13:43, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Actual question about history 

message: As you can see, Dinamo Zagreb played in the Cup Winners' Cup of 1973/74, eventually losing to Milan.
But why? There seems to be no good reason why Dinamo played in the CWC in the first place. To get to the Cup Winners' Cup you've had to either win the national cup or to lose in the final if the winner already qualified for the European Cup (by becoming champions). The Yugoslav national cup tournament changed their season rhythm in 1972. Whilst the league always played in the “sommer system” (from sommer to sommer), the cup played with the sommer system until 1971/72, but changed to the “calender system” in 1973 (from winter to winter). There was no cup tournament in autumn 1972.
The national cup winner 1970/71 (Crvena Zvezda) played in the Cup Winners' Cup 1971/72. The cup winner 1971/72 (Hajduk Split) played in the CWC 1972/73. The cup finalist 1973 (Crvena Zvezda) played in the CWC 1974/75 (as the cup winner Hajduk also became champion). So far, so easy. But the CWC 1973/74 is obviously missing. After the 1971/72 cup (final May 17th 1972) the next edition has been 1973 with the final only in November 28th 1973), so the next cup winner after 1971/72 (CWC 1972/73) has been found too late to let it participate in the CWC of 1973/74. The cup winner of 1973 participated in the CWC 1974/75. 
So there's a problem: Dinamo played in the CWC 1973/74 although they did not qualify for it. They did not become cup winners in 1971/72 (that has been Hajduk). That means that Hajduk should have participated in the CWC 1973/74 just as they did in 1972/73—because they were the defending cup winner. Or nobody should've played in the CWC that season. In 1973/74 Hajduk did not play internationally at all, so they could've made it.
Dinamo couldn't have qualified via the national league because they only made it to position 8 the previous season, although only the first three teams qualified for international tournaments (so the next team would have been Partizan, the forth-placed, not Dinamo, the eighth-placed). Also, there was absolutely no other cup tournament in Jugoslavia in 1973 which could've served as a determiner of the CWC participant.
So, does anyone know how Dinamo Zagreb qualified for the CWC 1973/74?31.17.153.189 (talk) 05:18, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Dinamo had lost the cup final in May 1972 to Hajduk Split. As Cup winners, Hajduk qualified for the 1972-73 CWC season, and Dinamo qualified as cup runners-up for the season after that (for CWC 1973-74). This was probably decided around the time of the May 1972 final, as the football association knew that the switching the calendar would affect European qualifications and leave a gap year. Since after the May 1972 final the next cup final had been scheduled to take place in November 1973 (leaving an 18 month interval between the two titles), the football association had to delegate someone to enter CWC 1972-73 and 1973-74 beforehand, as preliminary rounds of the 1973-74 CWC were planned to be played in September 1973 (two months before Yugoslavia was supposed to get a new cup winner for the 1973 season). Timbouctou (talk) 17:24, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: One and a half year later, but: Thank you, you really helped me out with your explanation! (In case my IP has changed, I'm the guy who asked the question.)--31.16.72.92 (talk) 23:34, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  UEFA qualification in 1973 

message: 93.139.188.249 (talk) 11:18, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: as you have not requested a change.If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 12:30, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 7 August 2015 

message: Why was the logo deleted? Tzowu (talk) 00:11, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logo 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on GNK Dinamo Zagreb. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nacional.hr/clanak/13153/dinamov-smrtni-strah-od-huligana
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140301004918/http://povijestdinama.com/index.php/2012-04-17-20-50-04/najboljih-11 to http://povijestdinama.com/index.php/2012-04-17-20-50-04/najboljih-11
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I know what happened in YU 1945, but wikipedia should not make historical research, it should follow reliable sources. Those mostly have 1911.
*UEFA http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=878044.html
*croatian league http://prvahnl.hr/klubovi/dinamo/
*the club https://www.gnkdinamo.hr/HR/Klub/Povijest
So i think at least both numerals should be included. Except if someone can prove, that vast majority of current reliable sources uses 1945. Linhart (talk) 17:43, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  1945/1911 

message: I play good football have 18 years Mohamed khamis 11 (talk) 15:42, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  I want play football 

message: *Banovina of Croatia First League - 1940 
* 1941 Croatian First League
* 1943 Croatian First League 
Bye.-- Uspjeh je ključ života (talk) 09:25, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  GNK Dinamo won 32 championships!