Talk:Five Civilized Tribes

message: The Oklahma land run was on october 22, 1992!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hahaha!
The people that went in before the run were called "Sooners"  the 
Oklahoma University name for its sports teams.
I do not know whether the run opened up the whole state of Oklahoma or just the northern part which was called Oklahoma Territory.  The southern part was called Indian Territory.
Russ Singleton
An Okie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.8.255.201 (talk) 01:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oklahoma Land Run 

message: the relocation is a notorious naked social exclusion. any other similar cases? Jackzhp 15:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: social exclusion

message: "Cherokee" should redirect to Anivuia. It seems discriminatory to refer to some group as "a people" rather than "a nation" or "tribe" also. 
To me it would read:
The Anivuia, known by their neighbors as Chilukibi or "Cherokee", were a people with a well-developed world-view which included an integrated account of religion and society.
This has the advantage of representing a people without immediate reference to the forced placement of the historically "white" representation of indigenous people. This article is rife with such things, as are many of the articles on indigenous groups in the so-called "Americas".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Euanthes (talk • contribs) 18:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ah-ni-yv-wi-ya 

message: I reverted the change to: 
The Chickasaws were one of the "Five Civilized Tribes" who sold their country to be moved to the Indian Territory
from 
The Chickasaws were one of the "Five Civilized Tribes" who were forcibly removed to the Indian Territory
The top version seems controversial; needs citations. It's pretty widely acknowledged that the removal to Indian Territory was under duress. -- phoebe / (talk) 18:55, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All deracinations are under duress; however, compared to the Cherokee and Seminole removals there were no armies sent to forcibly remove the Chickasaw. The Chickasaw moved at their own cognizance. There was no great loss of life by their removal because of their competence. Rob (talk) 14:07, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverted change

message: I replaced the dead link www.nativeamericans.com/FiveCivilizedTribes.htm (see Wayback Machine snapshot) with www.nps.gov/archive/ocmu/Tribes.htm which was probably its source. It has the same text and pictures. The NPS link is itself an archive of some articles once under the Ocmulgee National Monument site, which no longer has the same kind of articles: www.nps.gov/ocmu/historyculture/. -Colfer2 (talk) 20:21, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updated link, was nativeamericans.com, now nps.gov 

message: The Wikipedia article "Native Americans in the American Civil War" states that the Muscogee/Creek fought on the Confederate side, and that many Seminoles did as well. This article says the opposite. Anybody have any info on that?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gtbob12 (talk • contribs) 12:24, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Civil War 

message: Where I can ge this info?--Kaiyr (talk) 19:35, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of Five Civilized Tribes by census 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The title isn't "Five 'Civilized' Tribes", so why is civilized in scare quotes in the lede? 216.8.186.81 (talk) 20:40, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Fear of being labeled "culturally insensitive" (politically incorrect) run amok. 2600:1006:B10B:A99E:DDF:6999:A965:B6F6 (talk) 20:51, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The scare quotes have been removed per WP:SCAREQUOTES.--JayJasper (talk) 21:06, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Am exercising the ability to edit my own point- I was trying to get a better idea of what our intentions are in this article. Each of the tribes' own histories is quite complex, both before and after Removal.Parkwells (talk) 16:37, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm an eighth Cherokee, a small part Choctaw, and a smattering of others, or so I understand. I know that American Indians don't love it when white people try to speak on their behalf and tell everyone what's what about Native peoples, or what they should be called. For example, not all Indians want to be called "Native Americans", and resent it when zealots of other groups try to enforce what they consider politically incorrect—to these American Indians it's just more of the neocolonialist "white man knows best" mentality. Academia may consider the term "Five Civilized Tribes" outdated and offensive, as well as some tribal members, but the Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes is still active, and just had a quarterly meeting on October 6–8, 2021, so an article about the term and its history is not inappropriate. To be clear, I rewrote the Five Civilized Tribes#Terminology and usage section, so I am capable of adhering to a neutral-point-of-view concerning the matter.;-) Carlstak (talk) 00:13, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

text: Thanks, that's a good point. From the Oklahoma Historical Atlas article, it's not clear that there is a consensus about "Civilized" being ethnocentric as applied to those five tribes anyway. Maybe he was just trying to suggest that now at least European Americans have officially recognized that all the tribes had their cultures and civilization, even if it differed from theirs. We can decide how we want to use that cite. Your point of noting the Inter-Tribal Council using "Five Civilized Tribes" is a good one. It's up to them to decide what terms they want to use. I'm interested in learning more about what they have worked on together. Parkwells (talk) 23:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been aware of the lack of consensus among American Indians about using the term "Native American". Additionally, my subscription to Indian Country Today since at least 2016, has taught me their practice of indicating a person's tribal affiliation (if they are enrolled), in parentheses immediately after their names. Is this one you agree with? Also have worked to identify specific indigenous languages and nations in WP articles, if known, rather than the general "Native American"... So, working on it.Parkwells (talk) 23:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: The Five Civilized Tribes (make a new topic) 

message: Carlstak, I did not have the chance to add more sources to the material about the Chickasaw and their language, and the French & Indian War before you reverted my additions. If we are going to write about the cultures and languages of these tribes, which should probably be basic to each section, I think we should state their traditional languages before noting that some members also spoke French or English. Yes, they learned other languages as they were trading with colonists who spoke those. In addition, while the Chickasaw tribal website may credit them with helping the US become an English-speaking country (after helping the British gain victory in the French & Indian War), for readers of this article, some expanded explanation of Britain's victory and French cessions, and effect on future US might be useful. That's all I was trying to do.Parkwells (talk) 16:37, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have a problem with you rewrtiting portions of the text, Parkwells, as you generally seem to know your stuff, but you shouldn't change it so that it no longer aligns with given sources, without removing those sources and replacing them with ones that support your own text. You've been on WP for quite  awhile, so surely you know that asserted facts should be reliably sourced, and if they aren't, that they may be challenged and removed. Other editors shouldn't have to do the work required to back up your changes. Carlstak (talk) 22:51, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You're quite right and I did not mean to be so hasty.Parkwells (talk) 22:20, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries, I know you do good work.;-) Carlstak (talk) 01:47, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Other issues about Chickasaw

message: *In terms of sources, I wanted to recommend that editors identify Opinion pieces, such as Alaina Roberts' article cited in the Lead, as this is not the same as reporting. (I identified it as Opinion in the title.) 
*Also, while a tribal website may seem an appealing source, the Chickasaw one lacked any footnotes or references to sources it had used, which limits the reader's ability to follow up and learn more than is summarized on the site. For instance, it said "Some historians credit the Chickasaw..." - what historians? Do they have articles/books that readers can go to so they can learn more, or compare them to others who might have different opinions? Editors are encouraged to use Reliable Sources as defined by WP, for example, academic works that document their facts. 
*The main articles in WP on these five tribes include numerous sources that reflect contemporary revisions in historians' approaches to Native American history.Parkwells (talk) 22:20, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes on sources

message: Please would an interested editor assess the changes made in March 2021 at User:Broustay/Five Civilized Tribes, incorporate what is useful, blank the user page as WP:COPYARTICLE, and leave a note here when done? – Fayenatic London 12:25, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abandoned user draft