Talk:Fishbone

message: Do all the individual members warrant pages?  I've created a redirect page for Chris Dowd, but that's just my bias (me's my favorite!). Linguistixuck (talk) 16:12, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Individual pages

message: Does anyone know what is the huge size of saxophone is that Moore plays in Fishbone?  I think it is a bass saxophone but I'm not sure because nowhere on the Internet is this information available, and their albums just list "saxophone."  Any Fishbone/saxophone experts out there who know, it would be appreciated.  Badagnani 00:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Large saxophone

message: As a Fishbone fan of many years, I agree with Badagnani....Umph's edits were correct
My problem with the edits is not the factuality of the content Umph added.  My problem is the visual aspect of the article:
*Personnel box – This can easily be shown with the bulleted list that used to be on the page.  This has also been added to Yes and Deep Purple (possibly by Umph) without discussion.  Because of this, I'm considering whether or not it is useful.  However, my argument is that:
**it is much too big for the article
**it is not placed well
**it is way too "linked"
**Readers don't need a year-by-year breakdown of members of the band.  Instead, they can put the pieces together by their dates of membership palced next to their names in a Personnel section.
*Discography – I don't understand what was wrong with the old discography.  It included both EPs and full-length releases, bulleted in proper format.  The discography has now been reverted to an incomplete and un-bulleted list.
*External links – These need to be bulleted and annotated correctly.
*Linking inside the article – According to the Manual of Style, only make links that are relevant to the context.  Many of Umph's changes were linking years and linking words that were already linked.
My main point is that the above complaints/problems could be fixed by reverting back to the old version.  I've already stated that Umph's edits weren't original.  They were simply changes added from older edits (I can't stress this enough). Compare: December 28, 2005 (after Umph's edits) December 12, 2005 (before my edits) December 27, 2005 (right before Umph's edits) and for comparison October 28, 2005
If I were to clean-up this article at this moment, it would look like the version before Umph's edits, plus the infobox.
One thing I mentioned on Badagnani's talk page is that the band infobox should stay.  I have no problem with it.
Now as I stated on Badagnani's talk page, I'm not about to edit the article only to get into a revert/edit war, especially since the consensus at this moment seems to not be in my favor.
--Kevin McManus 09:35, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article looks good 

message: "Readers don't need a year-by-year breakdown of members of the band."
How do you know what everyone likes? I find this to be one of the most interesting things about band history.....and Wikipedia is actually the only comprehensive website to get lineup changes right. Line-up changes define a band's history, and if you look at many other groups with frequent changes, the breakdowns have been kept on Wikipedia, probably because readers find it very interesting. 
Who cares if Umph's reverts weren't original. If the content is correct, it doesn't matter who re-inserts it. 
This is the most comprehensive detailed breakdown of Fishbone's history on the Internet. Leave it be.
:Line-up changes define a band's history, and if you look at many other groups with frequent changes, the breakdowns have been kept on Wikipedia, probably because readers find it very interesting.
A quick check to a list of featured musicians and bands shows that (from the top half of the list) the following bands list personnel the "traditional" way:
*The Beatles
*Dream Theater
*Iron Maiden
*Nirvana
*Sex Pistols
While only Duran Duran does a breakdown.
:I find this to be one of the most interesting things about band history.....and Wikipedia is actually the only comprehensive website to get lineup changes right.
Correct, and Wikipedia can still get them right without having to show an almost year-by-year breakdown.  You can put the pieces together.
Does one band member change warrent a whole new table row?  Fishbone has only had 16 members that we know of.  Yes, this is substantial, but why do we need to dedicate half the page to it?
Also, the table prevents you from just seeing an overview of the members of the band.  If you wanted to see when Spacey T was with the band, you'd first have to find the first row where he appears.  Then you'd have to find the last year he appears.  This is way too much work for someone just looking for his active years.
The table also has a distorted timeframe.  1979-1989 (10 years) has only one row.  2004-2005 (1 year) also has one row.
Umph's first edit  would be a perfect place to revert to.  He has added the infobox, something this article needed.
A breakdown of his other edits show something different, however.
This diff shows how he 
*changed "their self-titled EP, Fishbone" (Wikipedia style) to "a self-titled EP" (still Wikipedia style, but definatly not helpful in linking to the article)
*linked to Truth and Soul twice in the same paragraph
*linked to the word "Reality"
*removed the reference to the the Jones kidnapping
*changed Philip "Fish" Fisher (Fish's real name) to Fish Fisher (definatly not his real name)
By breaking down just this edit, I'm not trying be a nitpicker.  I'm only showing how his edits were not helpful.  They were destructive, whether intentional or not, and require a revert. --Kevin McManus 19:25, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  How do you know? 

message: It seems Umph and 68.210.198.164 are persistant in getting the personnel box (the table at the bottom of the page that has a breakdown of band members during certain periods of time) added to the page.  I think it would be best if we held a formal vote, so if we reach a consensus we can keep the personnel box on or off, depending on what the consensus is.  If you are voting, please make sure to sign your vote with four tildes (~~~~) --Kevin McManus 01:21, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  i dont think wikipedia should be the place to look for that kind of information.  what about shows where there are sit-in musicians?  i have at least three or four fishbone live recordings with musicians who played just a few gigs with Fishbone. And there were times with many changes within the same year, the current personnel box (with low details on dates) does not help at all for shows in 97-99 or 2004-2005 (did Tori play particular this gig or no?)  What about Kid Merv, Elizabeth Lea, Foley, James Grey,... who at one point were part of fishbone. Should these lineups be included in the personnel box too? If there is a personnel box, it should be exhaustive (no reason to leave persons aside).   Wikipedia is not suited well to keep this kind of info well organised and i'd just suggest an external link where an as acurate as can be information is kept. --Badmothergoose 21:30, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The infobox doesn't add content, though.  --Kevin McManus 20:26, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

text:  we could add a Fishbone (timeline) page to old this information organised day by day, for instance --Badmothergoose 21:30, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personnel box dispute 

message: This album was actually recorded in 2002. I participated in its postproduction. I am changing it.
Kultur 05:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Live in Amsterdam 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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