Talk:Pacific Bay Christian School

message: Advertisement?  I'd have to disagree. I think that the article is rather informative, yet simplistic. I'd consider it an advertisement if the article was comparing academic or graduation standards with other schools, or was trying to appear superior in some other way; or if they included contact information to send a child to the school or to donate to the school.  
The only part I would consider remotely "advertising" related is "Enrollment and Graduates". However, this information is fairly important in defining what the school is.
In addition, you can visit almost any other high school represented on Wikipedia and see that their articles are much more of an advertisement than this article. I'm going to delete the advertisement tag until some discussion is brought in regarding that label.  --69.181.172.86 17:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: RE: Advertisement Label

message: The article on the William J. Clinton Presidential Center and Park doesn't start off "...was created by Bill Clinton, who had sex in the Oval Office with Monica Lewinsky and stuck a cigar inside her ...", even though that fact is verifiable and notable. When you do it, it is a coatrack. You are trying to push a point of view in one article with information that is true from another article. It is something you would see on Fox news, and doesn't belong in Wikipedia. Unless the college teaches Klan philosophy, it doesn't belong here. The information is already in the article on Alma White and people can click on it to read about her. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 18:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Richard - I have great respect for your efforts on Wikipedia and I have enjoyed our collaberation on several articles.  But I sense some significant frustration here that may be clouding your arguements.  I find that the ML story of Bill Clinton is not even close to the Alma/Klan comparison, a women who spent a decade of her life promoting the Klan, and a second and half of a third decade promoting ideas the Klan would be proud of.  What is Bill Clinton primarily known for?  Being President.  What is Alma primarily known for?  Well, if you review the academic literature about her, some of which I have sited, she is most known for her efforts to promote the Klan.  Additionally, I encourage you to read the news stories and wiki page of the Jacksonville FL school named after the first Klan Wizzard. Nathan Bedford Forrest High School, Named After Klan Leader, Retains its Name.  BTW - I find the Fox News reference simply bombastic and frankly a bit offensive.  I look forward to a more authentic discussion. Buz lightning (talk) 23:54, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, yeah...the church's website doesn't even mention White .  Though this is certainly important information for Alma White's page, it seems to be more than a bit of a coatrack for an unrelated issue.  Even the part I put in about the church repudiating the connection is dubious - this page should be about the school, unless there is significant evidence that the school was involved with the Klan, this much detail about the church is inappropriate.  Certainly if sources can be found which show that the attendees and founders were sheet-wearing racists that's important.  But I agree that it's a lot of interesting detail about a church which doesn't really apply to the school.  There might be a case made for including more of the constitution information on the page, but I'd rather see a source that indicates this is actually part of the church's constitution.  Did White's actions significantly impact the school?  Did it lead to segregation activism by the students?  Does it exclude non-white students?  If so, then certainly put this information in.  But otherwise it definitely reads as undue weight on a tangential issue that shows no evidence of impacting the school, making it certainly a coatrack.  WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 19:49, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Klan

message: Two months ago I added a request for a citation for this assertion:  “however the school's administration does not endorse Alma White's ideas or actions [citation needed].”  No citation has been forthcoming and in fact I have begun to discover documented evidence that contradicts this assertion.  In the 35 books and 10 journals that Alma White wrote or edited, no political theme rings louder than Bishop White’s fear and hatred of the Roman Catholic Church and Roman Catholic individuals.  This is not my original research as it is the consensus as published by at least six academic scholars, most in peer reviewed journals (Blee, Stanley, Kandt, Neal, Green, Lindley, etc.).  I have not found any scholar that has published a peer reviewed dispute to this consensus.  
In 1943, Bishop Arthur Kent White, Alma’s son and the second leader of the Pillar of Fire Church, published forwards to two of Alma’s political books affirming his and the Church’s position that he and therefore the Pillar of Fire Church agreed with his mother’s position regarding Catholics and the Catholic Church.
Every truth-loving citizen should take the time and trouble to learn the facts and pledge himself to be an un-swerving, uncompromising, untiring, 100-per cent Protestant, and a faithful ‘Guardian of Liberty.’ 
 
Guardian of Liberty is a euphuism for Klansman and often substituted interchangeably in the Pillar of Fire literature which was supportive of the Klan and the Klan’s ideology.  Bishop Arthur Kent White led the Pillar of Fire Church until 1981.
Why do I believe that the Pillar of Fire Church’s well-documented historical vehement and vicious promotion of anti-Catholic bigotry is relevant to Alma Heights Christian Academy today and worthy of a watered-down half sentence in a wiki article?  I see evidence of the tailings of this ideology today in three places in the school’s current web site.
1) The school added the word Christian to the name of the school to distinguish it from Catholic schools in the area.  This declaration is currently on the schools website (Jan, 2010)
2) The school’s non-discrimination policy states they reserve the right to discriminate against, they use the word screen, applicants based on religious preference.
3) The school requires applicant students and their parents to sign a declaration that they agree with the school’s evangelical Protestant beliefs.
The half sentence I added in the historical section of the article is:  “Consistent with the Pillar of Fire Church’s well-documented promotion of anti-Catholic rhetoric,”  I’m open to discuss this as I understand those currently associated with the school may find my assertion quite challenging. 
Buz lightning (talk) 20:29, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Bishop Alma White's ideology and non-Catholic distinction