Talk:Penge

message: Will someone plerase restore the cultural references section? The reputation of a place is significant and certainly has a place in an encyclopedia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.220.45.132 (talk) 17:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: untitled

message: Please, an editor, give us the Cultural References section back.
Jason Finch, 10 October 2009.
I have edited, reformatted and reinstated Cultural Reference.  It could still do with a bit more judicious editing. Bebofpenge (talk) 02:31, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I`ve removed the section as most of the listings are frankly not notable. Most of the references are sections such as from Football factory stateing `penge minge` or ``Terry Wogan  as Penge-sur-mer or Penge-les-trois-auberges, pronouncing Penge as the French might``, which is not only unencyclopedic, but also not interesting.--Rockybiggs (talk) 13:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Most users raise their concerns in this discussion before undertaking substantial deletes.  Most of your comments are valid.  Most of the quotes are unreferenced and are indeed both unencyclopedic and uninteresting.  Some parts do not even belong in this section.  I have reinstated the latter (if they are referenced) into a more appropriate position.  I have also copied the text to my PC where I shall edit to remove unsuitable material, ensure that all other material is properly referenced and then reinstate it in a proper encyclopedic form  Bebofpenge (talk) 05:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Bebofpenge. I certainly think that the Rumpole of the Bailey reference is notable among others. --Vince (talk) 13:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  H G Wells reference.  There was a detailed reference on one of HG Wells' last novels which was largely set in Penge (under an obvious pseudonym).  It seems to have entirely disappeared.  I know little of his works beyond the popular SF.  Could any Wells' scholars reinstate the reference? Bebofpenge (talk) 05:41, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  The book is THE NEW MACHIAVELLI and Chapter 3 concerns the family's move to Penge. Bebofpenge (talk) 13:21, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultural References

message: Penge was the site of the first motor vehicle fatality in the UK.  It happened on Dolphin Terrace which was apparently the name of one of the terraces in the old Crystal Palace.  Is this worthy of a mention in this entry? http://www.trauma.org/archive/history/epidemiology.html
Bebofpenge (talk) 06:17, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: First Car Fatality

message: My understanding was this place was originally in Surrey and got included in 1894 in Croydon Rural District. However in 1899 it became an urban district in its own right and was transferred to Kent.   MRSC 16:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added to some details to the history section. What I'm not sure about is if Penge was a detatched part of Surrey "physically within Kent" or part of contiguous Surrey (I think this is more likely and the "detatched" refers only to the ancient parish not the county). MRSC 17:16, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: One possibility is that it was historically in Kent (the ABC have it Surrey/Kent), but was included in the Croydon Rural District despite still being part of Kent.  User:Lozleader's research has discovered that this was possible (see Local Government Act 1929).  If it was in a detatched part of Surrey, ABC would note that.  Morwen - Talk 19:29, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Finally found a source. The 'shire ditch' (sounds nice) cut right through the area, so it was part in each. MRSC • Talk 10:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great work! --Vince 21:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Surrey or Kent?

message: There was supposed to have been a brickfield on the corner of what is now Penge High St and Oakfield Road.  Does anyone have anyinformation on it.  Did it predate the railway? 
Bebofpenge (talk) 05:31, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Brickfield

message: I don't think the line about Danish money has any place in this article.  The Danish penge is not named after the place, it has a completely separate etymology and is pronounced differently.  If it must appear on this page, it should be set off by itself, not sandwiched between two "cultural references" legitimately related to the subject of this article. Canonblack 14:09, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I think it's just silly, so I've removed the line altogether. Otherwise in an article on, say, lamppost you could find someone remarking that "lamppost" is the Yiddish word for "tortoise". (I don't think it is, by the way!) --A bit iffy 14:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL!  Yeah, that would be a bit of a stretch!  Thanks, for the laugh and the removal. Canonblack 13:49, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe you should have one of those notes at top of the page saying "for the Danish money, see xxxx" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.75.196.163 (talk) 02:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Danish money? 

message: I am concerned about the length of the section on public houses. I do not think it necessary to list the name and address of every pub in Penge. As far as I am aware, Penge is not known particularly for pubs so I am wondering about the relevance of the section at all. If there are no objections I plan to do a major edit of this section --Vince 08:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I hadn't noticed you suggested this, Vince, and I see you've now done it. I'm in agreement with you: the pubs section was getting bloated. --A bit iffy 14:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the '25 pubs to the square mile' were the main reason for Penge becoming famous in the Victorian era.  They and the music halls entertained visitors in the evening after their visit to the Crystal Palace earlier in the day.  The Penge Murders turned fame into notoriety. 21 pubs are named in the article - what were the other four?Bebofpenge (talk) 04:20, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Since I added 'lending its name as a bus route terminus since 1914', the entry on the Crooked Billet seems to have become  a treatise on the 227 bus and a history of Penge Green. As it is by far the oldest pub in the area (probably 16th century or even earlier) would it be possible to move the bulk of this entry to a new heading?  Possibly 'Penge Green' would be a sensible heading as it would cover the area of land that fronted the Crooked Billet and evolved into the bus terminus.  More information on Penge Green is in the Penge library (if my memory serves me correctly). I'm 10,500 miles away from Penge, so someone else would need to check this out. Bebofpenge 06:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Public houses 

message: I think that this article should be considered as B class. Although it still needs editing, and some references, I think it contains a majority of the material needed for an article on a relatively small district. --Vince 15:33, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I have updated the infobox.  We need lots of references now. Regan123 06:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Class 

message: Is anyone able to find a documented reference to this?  I know it happened then because I was living at 5 St John's Cottages - opposite the one that exploded- when it happened.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bebofpenge (talk • contribs).
I have traced this back to a primary source.  It was even earlier than I had thought.  Reference now added.Bebofpenge (talk) 06:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gas explosion - St John's Cottages 

message: I am sure I remember the 12 having a scheduled terminating point of the Pawleyne Arms, contrary to the recent edit. Could someone else confirm this so it can be corrected. Thanks - --Vince 19:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Meticulous work as always. --Vince (talk) 13:16, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number 12 bus 

message: I have written this in an attempt to tidy up the Famous public houses and bus terminus section.  I have incorporated most of my references in the text.  Please feel free to comment.  
:Looks good to me. Add it in. --Vince (talk) 12:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have copied it across and deleted quite a bit from Public Houses.  I'll be adding citations over the next few days.Bebofpenge (talk) 08:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I have raised this with Tfl and this is part of their reply: Having liaised with Metrobus, who operate route 358 for us, I have been advised that the terminating point for the service in Penge is dependent on remaining bus stand tine as well as the location of the road inspector. The continued expansion of the bus network has meant that stand space is at a premium across London, and it is not always possible to cater for more than one terminating service at a single location or stand. As such, I regret to inform you that there are no current plans to revise the turning points for route 358.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bebofpenge (talk • contribs) 10:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Pensgreene (Penge Green) and the Crooked Billet

message: I see that this railway has been added to the Rail section. From the little information that I have gleaned over the years, there seem to have been two pneumatic railways built - a demonstration line built for an exhibition and then dismantled and another one which tried to operate commercially in a tunnel behind the houses along the length of park side of Crystal Palace Park Rd (starting behind the old German Consulate at the top of CPPRd and terminating at the south gate of the park). All this is entirely hearsay as I had never seen a reference in any history.  --Bebofpenge (talk) 10:55, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Crystal Palace pneumatic railway

message: There seems to be some confusion as to which area is actually Penge.  It used to be simple when there was a Penge Urban District local authority, but now it is less clear cut.  The change in ward boundaries has further complicated matters.  Anerley ward was originally in Penge UDC but no longer exists.  Instead we have Crystal Palace ward and Penge has been amalgamated with Cator. Crystal Palace (as a district
rather than a ward) seems to be growing. I have even seen houses for sale on the Groves Estate being advertised as being in Crystal Palace.  For the purpose of this article I suggest that we should consider the final boundaries of the Penge UDC to define the area that is covered by this article.  Does anyone have a map of that?  Bebofpenge (talk) 08:45, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the problem we face with many of the London district articles. It is better to be specific about periods of history where there was a functioning parish/district; and for the information regarding the current "area" avoid authorative mention of "boundaries". MRSC • Talk 20:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: What area defines Penge?

message: Reference 5 (The Every-day Book and Table Book; or, Everlasting Calendar of Popular Amusements, Sports, Pastimes, Ceremonies, Manners, Customs, and Events,) does not seem to include the information claimed.
I have discovered that the flaw lies in the text cited.  There are two different pages with the same page number!Bebofpenge (talk) 06:20, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: These murders (not the Rumpole one) are mentioned a couple of times but there is no explanation and no article to link to. Anybody help? Tigerboy1966  21:13, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I can work up a start-class article over the weekend. I usually stick to horse racing so this will be a departure for me. Tigerboy1966  09:19, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: done Tigerboy1966  17:36, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: The [[Penge Murders]]

message: Can we have pronunciation info for this? I have no idea how this is pronounced. Iago212 08:03, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It's one syllable, "Penj", to rhyme with the second syllable of "revenge". Don't know how you do IPA for that. Le Deluge (talk) 11:12, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! All done Iago212 08:28, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: The name Pawleyne Arms suggests some local connection but I have searched in vain for the origin of the name. Any suggestions? — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 15:34, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appawleyne lack of information 

message: This article states that the Crooked Billet is "by far the oldest" of Penge's many boozers, having been there at least since 1601 and possibly much longer, with a specific reference to the building shown in the photo. However, it also states that the original pub was demolished in 1827 and rebuilt in a new location, rebuilt again in 1840, and then again after being hit by a bomb in the Second World War. So what it's apparently saying is that the pub currently known as the Crooked Billet is simultaneously about 75 and well over 400 years old because it has the same name as another pub which used to be in a different place and has been completely rebuilt three times, but is nevertheless the same pub. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say: "The Crooked Billet is by far the oldest pub in Penge even though it hasn't actually existed in its original form or location for almost 200 years, in the same way that Queen Victoria is the oldest woman in Britain apart from being dead." Though I don't think it would be terribly useful.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.163.241 (talk) 12:37, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exactly how old is the Crooked Billet supposed to be?