Talk:SS Christopher Columbus

message: I wrote the article initially in the "she" maritime style, with all references using She... we have had some reversion to "it".  I am no ship expert or manual of style regarding ship articles expert so maybe "she" was incorrect usage, but I do think discussion might be a good idea. ++Lar: t/c 18:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless someone more knowledgeable says so, I would go with "she". Eaglizard 21:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships#Style Guide?, seems to be more or less the thinking there too. ++Lar: t/c 22:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronoun to reference the Columbus ("she" vs. "it") 

message: I added a sentence about the City of Everett to correct a completely opposite statement that was in the text. However, I just lifted that from Whaleback, and I have no other cite for it. Does anyone else? Eaglizard 21:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's one... not sure how reliable it is. American Heritage 2001 article It also states 2 engines, not one, and gives top speed as 17 knots. I found it using this search ... I'll update the article if no one else does... That completely opposite statement was introduced by me and clearly I was working from a faulty memory at that point so thanks for the correction. ++Lar: t/c 22:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've updated to reflect the American Heritage info. That's a good ref, the article could still be expanded with a few other tidbits. Note that it says 1.7M passengers, not 1.8M... ++Lar: t/c 19:38, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Note that there is now an SS City of Everett article... thanks to Eaglizard! ++Lar: t/c 01:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: City of Everett Info

message: I can't believe this hasn't occurred to me before, but:
"The World's Fair of 1893, a commemoration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus' voyage to the New World"
Gee, I wonder where they got the name for the ship!
:I don't think the article actually says anything about the name. I was too close to realise that it needs explaining. So that would be a good thing to add. ++Larbot - run by User:Lar -  t/c 20:54, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that's what they call a "beer run" ... Brings new meaning to the term "excursion" :) ++Lar: t/c 01:22, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I'll bring that in to the article, along with the ad illustration showing a 1.50 fare to MLW from Chicago which is on Brendan's page... although I wonder what is meant by "rubber-neck" tour? Milwaukee's buildings weren't nearly as tall as Chicagos... ++Lar: t/c 11:16, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

text: cool. Eagalizard said he/she was going to take a crack at it. See the second topic of this talk page. Some of the sources used here have pictures of her so... :) BUT need to finish this one first. ++Larbot - run by User:Lar -  t/c 21:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More sources

message: OK, this talk page is about to pass being 3x the article's length in characters, I think. :) ... if it hasn't already. NOW where do we stand? I just have taken a pass at this, fixing various things
*The Wetmore/Everett detail was excised, thanks Malleus!... I ended up putting a greatly abridged version back, as I wanted to tie the promotional aspect of this together...
*I've generally tried to shift and thin references down to be reasonable. May not have got them all.
*The "Queen of the lakes" thing was moved to the section about her operation at the WCE along with the "marvel of the age" quote, it seemed to fit there. She wasn't queen for long anyway.
*I put the name source in, at the end of the motivation paragraph, citing the CPL source.
*I put the Schlitz beer reference in, reworking that para to clarify what sort of service she was in. I also added the ad showing her operation and schedule. But it has to be FU, unf. as I can't definitively place it as pre 1923. The images in that area are getting pinched again though.
*I added additional detail on the water tower incident. I also moved the racing stuff around to get it to flow better I think, and made the three accidents parallel.
*I found something neat about the stability testing she underwent after the eastland disaster and added that.
*Unless we go FU I can't find an interior photo to use, unf.
What do you guys think? Done yet? or more nits yet? ++Lar: t/c 21:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *That'll do as far as I'm concerned, no more nits from me. I think you've done a great job with this article and it well deserves to be listed as a GA, which I'll do shortly. In fact I think it's probably not that far off being an FA candidate now. Congratulations. --Malleus Fatuarum 22:03, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *You're too modest, there were a LOT of crucial edits from you as well, thanks very much. ++Lar: t/c 23:08, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Recap part Deux

message: # The new commercial vessel infobox has been substituted, as the other one did not allow for a tonnage field, but only permitted displacement, which is different.  See Tonnage#Tonnage_measurements.
# The figure given for draught (or draft) is actually listed as depth in the sources, which also is not the same. See Hull_%28watercraft%29#Metrics.  The templates do not appear to support depth.  The full template does have a field for Ship hold depth but that may not be applicable to this passenger vessel.  Perhaps changing the template to just depth would be appropriate. 
# The infobox contains a field for yard number, which I filled in, but for some reason does not display.  [Fixed by TomTheHand-- thanks!]
# On my screens, there is a slight horizontal offset between the stable field names in the left column, and the variable data appearing thereafter in the right.  This shows up on and below the Builder field, with the lines in the second column slightly lower.  I have not been able to fix that.  Kablammo 13:56, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've fixed the yard number issue, but it may take a few minutes to propagate to here.  The horizontal offset issue is caused by the citations.  They hit the top of the box and push the text downward.  I don't know of any way to solve that.  Let me think about the "depth" issue for a little bit, because I believe I've seen a similar figure for warships on occasion and I want to make sure to get the terminology right so that one box can serve both purposes. TomTheHand 17:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the new box, guys. It has been suggested to me that all the cites should be moved out to the inline text. That would fix it. Many of the early cites are first used there, but some of the later ones are first used in the text. What do you think of that idea?++Lar: t/c 01:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Good idea I think. It generally doesn't matter where the references are given (biographies and quotations excepted), so long as they're given somewhere. --Malleus Fatuarum 03:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

text: *I don't think it is necessary to have inline cites for the infobox (especially if no one demands them and the information is not controversial) if the source for the data is otherwise cited in the text or general references.  The offset caused by the footnotes is not a big deal; I just wondered if we could lose it.  Kablammo 14:17, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

text: OK I went ahead and removed the refs from the infobox. A loose end: the info about who built the boiler and engines is not mentioned anywhere else in the article so now it's uncited. Thoughts? ++Lar: t/c 14:31, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and on point 2, above. the hold depth may well matter (although I don't know what it is) because it's now clear to me at least that her decks as built were as follows (from the top) two above the turrets, the turrets themselves, and one inside the hold (at least part of the hold apparently had passenger accomodations in the form of a lunchroom or snack bar, although certainly a good part of the hold was taken up with boilers, the coalbin, water tanks, machinery spaces, etc. I have not been able to locate any design diagrams for her.) ++Lar: t/c 14:34, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The measurement of depth has varied over time, and was used to compute tolls.  Depth of hold is just that, how deep the ship's hold is; depth or moulded depth appears to be measured from exterior dimensions regardless of the hold dimensions.   (under Depth, Moulded). As the present (full) template has a field only for ship hold depth, the table will not display a depth figure taken from exterior dimensions.    Kablammo 15:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: Note that there is significant discussion regarding the Columbus at User_talk:Lar/Archive_35#Christopher_Columbus_(whaleback) () and at User_talk:Parsecboy/Archive3#Christopher_Columbus_.28whaleback.29 (), some of it is subsumed by subsequent edits but it may be of interest... ++Lar: t/c 16:02, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cross references 

message: Google and/or the publisher of the Worlds Columbian Exposition biblio reduced how much you can read of the text for free Instead of a page and a half you can now read about 5 lines. This means ref #2 doesn't work, and if it was pointed to where you now see 5 lines it no longer supports all the statements it formerly supported. A paper copy of the book could be used if it were located but to purchase it would be expensive, I think it prices out over 100 USD. I found a possible partial replacement... an ad in an 1898 literary magazine!  (Page 389 of "The Dial" ad is at lower left of the page) ++Lar: t/c 05:11, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just cite it as a book rather than using ; you've already got the page number and everything. I wouldn't feel comfortable if your original source was some random site's reproduction of the book, but googlebooks is exacting. Maralia (talk) 05:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Except that the info is buried in the short descriptions of the OTHER books... you really have to see what that page said to see how it supports the assertions that footnote 2 is supporting, and I didn't take a snapshot of the page (nor could I post it here if I had, it's a copyvio to do that). This book is a bibliography. over 150 pages of cites of other texts, relating to the fair, organised by category. That's why it costs over 100 USD, it had to have taken a long time to compile. Maybe I worry too much. ++Lar: t/c 05:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You needn't do all the work for the reader—providing a citation of the book, including the page number, should be sufficient to meet WP:V. You should probably reword the "longest" claim within the article, though; seeing as it's a claim made by (and sourced to) the Exposition, and the ship was built for the Exposition, it should be framed in that context. Maralia (talk) 06:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

text: It's repeated in the advert (Dial Magazine) I found which is a bit after the exposition. Given that she was built on Lake Superior, she had to fit through the Soo Locks to get to Chicago, which constrained total length that was possible unless she was built in sections (which she wasn't per the photos of her launch)... IIRC the longest lock at that time was 370 (I don't have a cite for that and I sort of doubt I'm remembering correctly)... if so she squeezed through (8 feet is not a lot :) ) It also would make it hard for some other ship to exceed the record (by much) until after the next larger lock was built. The Soo Locks article only has current lock sizes but the originals were 350 feet long per the US Army Corps of Engineers site linked from that article. Somehow I doubt they only increased by 20 feet in 38 years (1855 to 1893) ++Lar: t/c 23:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh don't get me wrong, I think it's probably true, but it's still very nearly self-cited. It might be more appropriate to say that she was "advertised as" the longest. Hell, perhaps we can find a better cite, and make it moot :) Maralia (talk) 05:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I like "advertised as" because it certainly was a promotional feature. ++Lar: t/c 18:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Just an FYI: I've put in an interlibrary loan request for the book McDougall's Dream; the American whaleback, which I saw mentioned at whaleback. No idea if I'll be able to get my hands on it, but if I do, hopefully it will have some meat in it. You might have a slightly better chance of finding it in your area. Maralia (talk) 06:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: COOL... If you get it, please let me know! It will come in handy not only here but also at whaleback and the other whaleback ships in :Category:Whaleback_ships... depending on when I may need to drop everything and actually work on McDougall's long postponed article. As for an interlibrary loan, first I'd have to get a library card :) I'm out of town most weekdays so it's problematic. ++Lar: t/c 18:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ref #2 needs replacing 

message: This section copied to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/SS Christopher Columbus; to centralize discussion please post further comments there.  Kablammo (talk) 18:28, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: These concerns are now resolved.  Kablammo (talk) 23:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Image placement needs attention as well, see WP:MOS#Images.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:42, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This appears to be done now.  Kablammo (talk) 18:28, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source questions 

message: I added one Library of Congress image.  Five more are available online  You should add some of them using  to save on space. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyTheTiger (talk • contribs) 14:47, 11 May 2008
:An interesting new image. Unfortunately the LoC link doesn't work for me. I've had trouble before with reproducing the results of searches, the URLs seem to be transient. I'll try to puzzle out what the other 4 images are from that one, or perhaps you could give the search terms and I'll see if I I can find the rest and give explicit links to their provenance pages. Note that the images once brought over probably should be on Commons rather than en:wp... 10:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this link finds SOME of them anyway, and should last beyond a temporary link like yours. What were the categories the other ones were in? Looking at where the new image is, though, I think it belongs lower, rather than next to the White Livery image, it's from the Goodrich era... ++Lar: t/c 14:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes the image should be lower.  I found the image and then several days later I found the fact for the text. (see the page hist). I had been looking up Rush Street and recall six images in the search I did, but only three or four of them were any good.  You may have all of them.   I seem to be unable to create the search I did.  I did not notic it waas a temporary link at the time.  I am sorry, but again, I think you found all the good ones.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  16:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Library of Congress images 

message: Good job guys. This is what a featured article should look like. Some times I wonder what's going on over at the FA Cabal, but this article is very nice. Beam 00:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Congratulations 

message: The "Alexander McDougall" article on Wikipedia is not about the shipwright, but a revolutionary.  The link should be removed.  76.178.196.239 (talk) 04:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for spotting that.  The wikilink has been corrected.  Risker (talk) 04:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Alexander McDougall 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: This ship was used at the World Columbian expedition in Chicago, ILL. It is just an all-around amazing ship — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.96.18 (talk • contribs) 12:35, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The S.S. Christopher Columbus