Talk:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/Archive 9

message: I've twice posted an external link to www.allaboutmormons.com, a site with facts about Mormonism that seems relevant to this site. It has twice been deleted as "spam." Just wanted to better understand what you guys consider "spam," seeing as how the site is well researched.
Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SLCMormon (talk • contribs) 
:The first rv stated link spam, while the second indicated personal web site.  Although it might be well researched, it appears to be the work of a single person.  Furthermore, it appears that you are the author of the site.  In general, it is frowned upon for people to add their own sites, especially if they are fairly new and not well known.  Doing a google for your site, I find no other sites linking to it, which is why some may call it link spam.
:Don't feel bad.  The same thing happened to me when I first joined wikipedia.  wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 02:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Question re. External links

message: Christian groups strongly disagree to the LDS. They are not Christian. It is wrong to consider them Christian just because they believe in a couple of beliefs of the mainstream church. I believe that the LSD is a dangerous cult. History proves it. LSD leaders have been convicted for sex charges, tax evasion etc. LDS practice polygamy. Don Lafferty ( a mormon) murdered 2 people because he said that God "told him to". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Melody.of.red (talk • contribs) 
:Well, well, well, you have quite a litany of charges that should be brought up in the article.  Could you please verify with a reference that Latter-day Saints practice polygamy?  Also, do you have a reference for the "LSD" (sic) being a dangerous cult and why?  How has history proved that it is so?  Could you also provide references for "sex charges and tax evasion" for all Latter-day Saints?  This article needs to have this information in it, if only you had sources.  Storm Rider (talk) 01:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It probably wouldn't be too hard to find references for those involved in "LSD" [sic] to have criminal links - a fine observation - but that isn't very relevant to an article about the LDS. :) Given the nature of some of this user's more particularly offensive vandalizations, I think a close eye out for a block referral is in order. - Reaverdrop (talk/nl/ub/w:s/w:l) 02:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One more quick thought--people aren't perfect, no matter what their religion may be.  It is unfair to judge a religion based on the mistakes and/or wrong doings of a few of its members.  Also, if the article was truly read, one would notice that the discontinuation of the practice of polgamy was mentioned several times.  Morgana 09:12, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's sad that even on a site that is meant to inform the uneducated, you will still find slanderour (or in this case libelous) arguements that have no validity other than to encourage fighting.  For shame Melody.of.red - --BuccaneerFilms 16:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  LDS, are they christian?

message: Why is this article titled "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" and not "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (which is currently a redirect page to this one)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lethargy (talk • contribs) 
See above: Norge, what have you done?! Also see archive: THE, move discussion/vote, and Decision About the Name. Novel-Technology 13:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you are confusing the purpose of this article - this article is specifically to be about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are other churches that have similar names that are at the other location. If you want to explain the different naming issues at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - that it is that name by revelation and the different sects in the latter day saint movement took on different names - the appropriate place to discuss those issues would not be on this article. Trödel 14:21, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Title 

message: This quote is purportedly from the General Handbook of instructions - which was replaced in 1998 by the Church Handbook of Instructions. Book 1 discusses this topic a few times. 
Additionally the quote misrepresents the policy which is more closely described as: (paraphrasing) the church opposes abortion for personal or social reasons and members should not pay for, encourage, perform or receive an abortion except in the case of rape/incest, the life of the mother is at risk, or a severe defect exists which the baby will not be able to survive long past birth. Even in these cases members are encourgaged to determine the best course of action for their situation through meditation and consultation with their Bishop/Stake President and divine confirmation through prayer. Trödel 15:22, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abortion Quote 

message: The very bottom of the article states:
Although the Latter-day Saints use the word Trinity to describe their view of the Godhead, it differs substantially from the doctrine of the Trinity accepted by other Christian churches. the LDS consider the Godhead to be made up of three distinct and separate beings, while mainstream Christianity considers God to one being made up of three Persons.
I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I don't recall ever hearing members of the church refer to the Godhead as the "Trinity."  This term is usually used only when comparing Mormon theology with that of other Christian denominations.  So, it should be changed.  Maybe I'll do it, but I'll see if anyone has a different experience than me.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.91.203.5 (talk • contribs • WHOIS) 
: I agree - the term trinity is rarely, if ever, used by members to describe the Godhead (in English anyway). Trödel 12:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: However, it is used throughout Talmage's Jesus the Christ, by Oaks, Holland and Hinckley in general conferences. I believe when dealing with such strong doctrinal works such as that, which is close to as official as they come, we should leave it in, but with a stated caveat that most Church members don't use the term culturally. -Visorstuff 16:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Would be curious to see the use in context - as the only reference I could find by Oaks (in like 5 min or less) was  not one endorsing the use of the word. Trödel 18:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

text: This unity is a type of completeness; the mind of any one member of the Trinity is the mind of the others; seeing as each of them does with the eye of perfection, they see and understand alike. Under any given conditions each would act in the same way, guided by the same principles of unerring justice and equity. The one-ness of the Godhead, to which the scriptures so abundantly testify, implies no mystical union of substance, nor any unnatural and therefore impossible blending of personality. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are as distinct in their persons and individualities as are any three personages in mortality. Yet their unity of purpose and operation is such as to make their edicts one, and their will the will of God. (Articles of Faith, p. 37)
You see, the term was much more en vogue until Joseph Fielding Smith pushed for a more scriptural term "the Godhead" be used in doctrinal teachings, to differntiate from the doctrine of the trinity, which we do not accept. But we do believe in the holy trinity - just not like everyone else. I'll see if I can pull more modern references, but these from "one of Mormonism's finest minds" should suffice. -Visorstuff 20:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Besides being one of Mormonism's "finest minds", Talmage is the only one with two books in the church-sanctioned "missionary library" that the church recommends for missionaries, including both of the references named above that use the term "trinity". That alone makes the sourcing for LDS use of "trinity" pretty authoritative. - Reaverdrop (talk/nl/w:s) 23:40, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Trinity 

message: I added the feastupontheword wiki link after seeing some of the other links.  I'm not sure if it's appropriate here, but I'd think it's more appropriate than some of the other links.  --RobertC 08:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: I've noticed that the group of articles on the LDS church is somehwat poorly organized. LDS gets you a disambig., while LDs redirects you strait to an article titled Latter Day Saints, which is very short and does not make it easy to locate this article. Latter-day saints is an entirely different article. none of the available articles are very long, and mose make it hard to find this article. I would suggest either better interlinking, or, preferably, make these pages redirect to this article, akthough you could have latter day saints be an article on the etymology of the term, linking to this article. Master Runner [[[Wikipedia:Counter-Vandalism Unit|CVU]]] 20:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have to agree with this - I still remember how confusing I found the LDS sites were when I started editing here about 2 years ago. Maybe a short infobox on these main redirects would be helpful?? --Trödel 20:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Multiple article organization