Talk:Tien Shan Pai

message: Google Books provides sources. However, it seems most of the better ones are in Chinese. Regardless, "天山派" does provide various results: Little cauction is required, as some of these are actually fictional novels. But if you know Chinese, it should not pose a big problem. TrickShotFinn (talk) 06:27, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue with that quote is that it is from a not a primary source. Was this from the history of the Song Dynasty or similar? If so what scroll? 64.141.41.66 (talk) 17:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this directed at me? I'm just saying you can find sources - I.E other books etc - on Google Books if you search from it. Problem is that most sources from my findings are either from Black Belt Magazine or in Chinese. If not, then what quote are you reffering to? -- TrickShotFinn (talk) 04:24, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: Hi, I'm PhilKnight from the Mediation Cabal, and hopefully I can assist you with this dispute. Regarding the issue over sources, I'd suggest that you could obtain an outside opinion from reliable sources noticeboard. PhilKnight (talk) 17:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restarting mediation 

message: My objection to citing the contents of Wang’s letters as proof of much of anything is disingenuous. And by the way, nothing you have posted before to refute me has been "subtle." Why now?
It has been testified to how often that what Wang “states” toward the end of his lifetime was often very different from what he endorsed (and stated) prior to the last eight years of his life.
 
As for the “harsh words” in the letter...what is Wang talking about?  It's clear that Wang is supporting Huang... who seems to be the one upset. But who is Huang upset with? Surely not Lin (which is what is implied.) The date on the letter is 1989. Lin had closed his school at least four years prior to that.  By 1989 Lin was doing non-Martial Art  business. His continuing involvement with (and practice of TSP) was private and personal. He was not taking on new students. He was not involved in any way with Huang Chien Liang. As far as the Martial Arts community was concerned, Lin was retired. He was not a business threat to Huang or Huang's organization. 
In 1989, Wang had no reason to be upset with Lin, either. Even though it's true that Lin questioned Wang (back in ’85) about the “missing” Red Cloud temple, when he got the response he did, Lin never questioned Wang about it further. He never challenged Wang publicly about the missing temple. He never told anyone except his wife, about his and Wang’s '85 conversation. He never publicly challenged the number of TSP generations that Wang was suddenly claiming after 1982. To do so would have been disrespectful, and Lin was always respectful of his teacher.  
Lin only went public about questioning his teacher and his teacher’s stories in 2009 (some nineteen years after Wang Jyue Jen had passed on) and then only in the wake of claims of “exclusivity” made (via Wiki) through Huang, his followers, and/or his Tien Shan Pai Organization. So once again I ask: Since, in 1989 Lin hadn't talked, and wasn’t talking, to whom was Wang referring in this letter? 
As to “names.” (Taoist or whatever)  I’m sure I don’t need to tell you how commonplace it is, especially in the Far East, for people to change their given names, usually because they think the new name will be more “auspicious.”  Often the elements in the new “name-word” will sound the same, but will be written with a different character to change the meaning. 
Wang himself changed his name. He was “Wang Shan Chih” for the first several years he was in Taiwan. By the mid 1950s he had become “Wang Jyue Jen.”  
“Shan" means  “good, virtuous.” "Chih "means “plan to set up something”. To come up with the name “Jyue Jen” (the way Wang wrote it,) the word “Jyue”… actually a created word not found in a dictionary… means “double jade.” The “Jen” part… also a created character not found in a dictionary…  means “gold + double jade (the bottom part uses the same pictograph as in the Jyue part above).” Sounds like this name was intended to grant the user “riches and prosperity.” 
As for "Taoist" names, sounds like this may have been something Wang chose to come up with later on in his lifetime. All we can say from the evidence is that "Jyue Jen" doesn't sound particularly "Taoist." What does "Chiang Liang" mean? TeamResearch (talk) 17:59, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern Practitioners Continued Again