Talk:Liceo Mexicano Japonés

message: I'm not sure what the reliability status is, but it has relevant photos: http://www.discovernikkei.org/en/journal/2011/2/3/nuevo-sol-naciente/ http://archive.is/SZvr4 WhisperToMe (talk) 18:41, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish article about the Japanese school 

message: Palma Mora, María Dolores Mónica. De tierras extrañas: un estudio sobre las inmigración en México, 1950-1990. Secretariat of the Interior of Mexico (SEGOB), Instituto Nacional de Migración, Centro de Estudios Migratorios, 2006. , 9789680301713.
* p. 318: "El Liceo Mexicano Japonés es una institución central en la vida del grupo, ya que en ella se forman sus hijos. Se fundó en septiembre de 1974, a raíz de la visita a México, por esa fecha, del primer ministro de Japón (Kakuei Tanaka). La escuela, sin embargo, no empezó a funcionar hasta del 2 de sep-[...]"
* p. 319: "Su propósito es el siguiente: [indent] El Liceo Mexicano Japonés no se limitará a ser una institución educativa de un grupo de japoneses residentes en México, sino que su objeto es llevar a cabo una educación continua e integral, desde el jardín de[...]" 
* p. 349 mentions the Boletin informativo, 1995. (source?)
Tanaka, Michiko (Colégio de México). "Internacionalización del Japón." in: Alvarez, Alejandro y John Borrego. La Inserción de México en la Cuenca del Pacífico. National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM) Faculty of Economics. Start page 243. , 9789683612861.
* p. 249: "La existencia de maestros que habían tenido experiencia de enseñanza en una escuela como el Liceo Mexicano Japonés, pretendida escuela modelo de la educación internacional, podría ser de gran apoyo para los niños repatriados o extranjeros."
Cardiel, Rosario, Alfredo Romero, and Mónica Cinco. Asiáticos en la ciudad de México (Issue 2 of Babel, Ciudad de Mexico). Mexico City (Gobierno del Distrito Federal), 1999. , 9789686335033.
* P. 55: "Gracias al enorme de nuestros antepasados se construyó lo que actualmente es el Liceo Mexicano-Japonés, orgullo de la comunidad japonesa, en donde pueden convivir estudiando; nuestros hijos de origen japonés, muchachos que vienen con sus padres a las grandes empresas japoneses y lo principal: jóvenese mexicanos, muchachos que no tienen ni una gota de sangre japonesa pero que están muy interesados en adquirer ese tipo de educación y están muy contentos en esa escuela. Creo que esta escuela[...]"
WhisperToMe (talk) 13:00, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible sources?? 

message: Normally master's theses are not considered reliable sources, but in the case of Chizuko Watanabe...
I found the paper is cited five times on Google scholar, but this list does not include The Japanese in Latin America. That means this master's thesis has been cited at least six times.
:*Making Ethnic Choices: California's Punjabi Mexican Americans
:*Mexico in the 1940s: Modernity, Politics, and Corruption
:*Allied policy toward axis Interests in Mexico during World War II
:*America's Japanese Hostages: The World War II Plan for a Japanese Free Latin America
:*Transpacific Mexico: encounters with China and Japan in the age of steam (1867-1914)
:*The Japanese in Latin America (not seen on Google scholar)
And this statement may be related to why her work was cited by the Punjabi Mexican book:
:* Explorations in Ethnic Studies: The Journal of the National Association of Interdisciplinary Ethnic Studies, Volumes 14-16. NAIES, 1991. p. 153. (Snippet view) (Search View)
:* "The Mexican Japanese studied by Chizuko Watanabe shared certain characteristics with the Punjabi Mexicans. Japanese immigration to Mexico was greatest between 1908 (when the Gentlemen's Agreement cut it off to the United States) and[...] The Nikkei (Japanese or half- Japanese born in Mexico), even those children whose parents were both Japanese, all spoke [...]" and also "she studied are not part of any one community. However, Chizuko Watanabe's study of the Japanese in Mexico and Barbara Posadas' studies of the Filipino-Europeans in Chicago do focus on groups comparable to the Punjabi Mexicans[...]" See the search
So does this support the idea that this master's thesis is at a higher standard compared to other master's theses?
In addition, Masterson's book says on p. 265: "We will concentrate this discussion on Mexico City's Nikkei-jin, who have been studied most intensively, particularly by Chizuko Watanabe and Takehiro Misawa, in the decades following 1970."
He paraphrases her work here: p. 214: "As noted by Yasutaro Taki and Chizuko Watanabe, the predominance of mixed marriages among Mexico's Issei ensured that the Nisei generation would be quite small and largely limited to the Japanese colony in Baja California Norte."
He used one of Watanabe's interviews as a source: p. 322: "95. Watanabe, "Japanese Immigrant Community," 180-81. 96. Toshiro Katagiri, interviewed by Chizuko Watanabe, 30 Oct. 1981, summarized in Watanabe"
Also: On p. 266: "How did the Japanese immigrant family fare through the early 1990s in Mexico? We are fortunate to have a carefully researched study of this critically important social institution completed by Takehiro Misawa. Like Watanabe's work for the 1980s, Misawa placed particular emphasis upon marriage patterns, Japanese language schools, and university education as socializing forces through the generations. Primarily focused on the nation's capital,[...]"
Takehiro Misawa, "Familia como Institución de Seguridad Transgeneracional: Reprodución Social y Cultural de los Descendientes Japonesas en Mexico" (thesis, El Colegio de Mexico, Centros de Estudios Demográficos, 1996)
Does Misawa's fieldwork have info about LMJ?
WhisperToMe (talk) 05:54, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chizuko Watanabe's thesis 

message: "Mexco" (Archive). Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan says:
* "As one fruit of a 1974 visit to Mexico by Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka, the Mexico-Japan Lyceum (Liceo Mexicano-Japonés was established in Mexico in 1977 to educate Japanese and Mexican children together. "
WhisperToMe (talk) 00:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ministry of Foreign Affairs Japan states that Kakuei Tanaka's visit resulted in the school 

message: I'm trying to establish context for what the Mexican government was trying to do, but I found...
Villegas, Francisco Gil. "Opciones de política exterior: México entre el Pacífico y el Atlántico" (Archivo) Foro Internacional, El Colegio De Mexico. Vol. 29, No. 2 (114) (Oct. - Dec., 1988), pp. 263-288. 
Disponible en JSTOR. Pagina citada: 277.
: "A parentemente por estas razones, en abril de 1988 el canciller Sepúlveda volvió a referirse a esta región y afirmó que "la Cuenca del Pacífico desempeñará un papel fundamental en la conformación de la estructura económica y política del siglo XXI". Algunos periodistas no han podido dejar de observar que "los hijos del candidato priísta a la presidencia de la República, Carlos Salinas de Gortari, hablan japonés; el hotel más nuevo de la ciudad de México es japonés y una de las telenovelas más populares se desarrolla en Japón, el segundo sociocomercial de México". En efecto, los tres hijos de Salinas asisten al Liceo Mexicano-Japonés; en noviembre del año pasado se inauguró el hotel Nikko de 38 pisos, uno de los más caros de México, con un costo de 110 millones de dólares,y actualmente Japón financia un oleoducto de 500 millones de dólares que llevará el crudo a lo largo de 250 kilómetros desde el Golfo de México hasta una terminal sobre la costa del Pacífico, para ser embarcado a Japón."
WhisperToMe (talk) 14:48, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Villegas article 

message: This book mentions the LMJ:
* Ishizuki, Minoru (石附実) and Masayuki Suzuki (鈴木正幸). Gendai Nihon no kyōiku to kokusaika (現代日本の教育と国際化). Fukumura Shuppan (福村出版), 1988. .
Please read the "completed fragments" of the book here: :es:Wikipedia_discusión:Consultas_de_borrado/Liceo_Mexicano_Japonés#Total_known_segments
Here is the info page of one author: http://educa.lit.osaka-cu.ac.jp/~soeda/nakami/papers_pdf/hikaku_kyouiku_fuzoku10_ishizuki_sensei.pdf - http://www.webcitation.org/6PHjrW1kg
WhisperToMe (talk) 03:46, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the author of a Japanese book that mentions the LMJ 

message: To find more articles that mention the institution, you could use:
* "Mexican Japanese Lycée"
* "Mexican Japanese Lyceum"
* "Japanese Mexican Lycée"
* "Japanese Mexican Lyceum"
WhisperToMe (talk) 11:41, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate names 

message: Confirmed here:
* http://www.dosokai.org.mx/?paged=2 - http://www.webcitation.org/6QP66EPzT - Shows brochures of LMJ Undokai events
WhisperToMe (talk) 18:03, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this the Undokai of "sport's festival"? --Zerabat (talk) 01:21, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the Hougen masters thesis, yes, it's the sports festival.  WhisperToMe (talk) 15:52, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kanji of undokai 

message: Re: Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources#Master's_theses_should_also_be_ruled_"reliable"_if_they_are_the_only_form_of_academic_scholarship_talking_about_a_subject, multiple users stated that (ordinarily) master's theses weren't
* Published academic documents: Masterson's book The Japanese in Latin America cites Watanabe's thesis.
* The content from Watanabe's thesis supports/supplements, rather than introduces undue weight to "new" aspects/opinions: this is because an analysis of the Masterson pages show that he's getting the factual information and quotes on conclusions from Watanabe. (I possess the relevant pages of the Watanabe thesis, given to me by somebody at California State University, Los Angeles)
If the master's thesis was inappropriate to use as a source on Wikipedia, wouldn't it be inappropriate to use it as a source in the book, which would make it not-reliable? But then the academic book reviews don't criticize such things (in the case of The Japanese in Latin America, I read the reviews and none say the sourcing is faulty), so I don't think it's in our place to say a master's thesis, that is cited by an academic book, that also supplements/expands what is already said in the academic book (which originates from the thesis), is then not a WP reliable source.
In summary: because Masterson's book is a reliable source (supported by the published book reviews), and his book is using Watanabe as a source, then her thesis (so long as the information supports what he published) is reliable because Masterson says so and the reviews of his book don't challenge the factual accuracy or sourcing of the book - because the reviews say so, Wikipedians can't challenge his book's use of Watanabe, so therefore Watanabe must be an acceptable source for this article.
I am, however, happy to use Masterson (or rather information from Watanabe published in Masterson) more often than Watanabe directly.  I do agree that Masterson should be used when possible.
WhisperToMe (talk) 17:05, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of a master's thesis as a source