Talk:Evolution/Raspor's objections

message: "All life is a result of such speciation events and thus all organisms are related by common descent from a single ancestor"
where is the experiment that proves the above? gravity's tenets can be proven experimental not evolution
economics tenets cannot be proven experimentally. evolution is more analogous to economics or athropology or archaeology
raspor 18:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You don't seem to understand scientific method.  It is possible to make falsifiable scientific predictions about things that existed in the past, or in the fossil record.
In fact, all events we can observe have happened in the past.
Tarinth 19:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gravity vs. Evolution

message: ===Evolution===
It is true that the fossil records of evolution document events that happened in the past. The field records of evolution (Tilapia,  nylon eating bacteria, etc) are even in the recent past, but still the past. The only examples of evolution occuring in real time, in controlled laboratory conditions are those on some bacteria and fruit flies and other fast breeding ceatures.
===Gravity=== 
We do have laboratory measurements of gravity. Every time you weigh something you are measuring gravity. These can all be done in laboratory situations, in controlled circumstances, just as those in evolution. However, one can also make measurements of gravity that are historic. A lot of the cosmic measurements of gravity are a long time in the past; millions of years or more in the past in many cases. The most important recent observations in gravity are all astronomical, and show evidence of antigravity. 
A lot of gravity theory is indirect and not observed. Who has seen a graviton? Who has seen space and time bending? Who has seen quantum effects in gravity? Who has seen a hybrid gravity and EM force? In this  sense, the observations of evolution are FAR more direct and clear than those of gravity. Gravity is far more esoteric than evolution is. There is no comparison. Evolution is so obvious it is not even worth debating, by comparison to gravity. Gravity is incredibly complicated and involved.  
===Comparison of gravity and evolution===
Both have data from laboratory.
Both have data from distant past.
Both have aspects that are inferred from the data and not observed. 
So? What is your problem with the comparison?--Filll 19:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Evolution provides a framework in which to interpret all the data we have. Without it, we would not have a clear picture of what was happening in antibiotic resistance of bacteria, and creation of new viral species that threaten us. The origin of these would be big mysteries. Is it God being malicious that is creating these new Viruses? Some would claim it is because there are homosexuals in the US so God created new viruses to plague us because he is unhappy with us. The understanding that ties genetics together would be missing. what about overuse of triclosan? We only know about that from an understanding of evolution. Species close to humans so that we can extrapolate laboratory studies on animal models to humans? We know that from using evolutionary understanding. Evolution is extremely important in biology, just like gravity is in physics. There are literally hundreds of thousands of testable predictions. The literature is full of them. Do you think all those millions of scientists are lying to you? A conspiracy? All those courts that ruled against creationism? Are the judges minions of Satan? Do you think that all of science is full of stupid people and only you and a few other malcontent extremists are smart enough to figure it all out? Give me a break. And yes, about half of the US population has been abducted by alien spacecraft piloted by bigfoot, who was in a conspiracy to fake the moon landing and bring down the world trade center and blame it on the arab muslims. Right...tell me another one.--Filll 20:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: You're asking about a fairly narrow issue, but to answer your question regarding predictions regarding humans and reptiles:  evolution predicted that the jawbones of reptiles evolved into the bones of the inner ear of mammals.  This was mocked by creationists for a long period of time ("how could the reptiles chew?" being a common complaint) but we have recently found transitional species.  Upon further invetigation we found that the reptillian jawbones of the transition species were capable of transferring sound better than previous organisms.  Collectively, our understanding of things like this and our ability to make predictions from evolution has led to just about everything in modern biology, be it better medicines or an understanding of the environment and the creatures that inhabit it.  Tarinth 
ok how has the alleged fact that we came from reptiles ehance our lives?
read carefully. antibiotic resistance would be there whether we came from reptiles or were created in the garden of eden. or if aliens seeded the planet. yes i agree knowledge of evolution helps us but how would things be different if God or aliens designed the DNA coding?
what it modern biology would not exist if again aliens seeded the earth and caused the cambrian explosion?
thanks for stopping by
raspor 20:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: As many creationists do, you are mixing apples and oranges, as I am sure you know. Abiogenesis and panspermia have nothing to do with evolution. This is about evolution, not that other stuff. So go to those articles to discuss it. This is not about the big bang. This is not about abiogenesis or radioactive decay or Usher's date for creation or dynamo theory of the earth or hubble's constant or any of thousands of other pieces of nonsense that people invent to try to protect biblical inerrancy. It is about evolution. Period.--Filll 21:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  events in the past in science 

message: Both have data from laboratory.
Both have data from distant past.
Both have aspects that are inferred from the data and not observed. 
So? What is your problem with the comparison?--Filll 19:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Evolution provides a framework in which to interpret all the data we have. Without it, we would not have a clear picture of what was happening in antibiotic resistance of bacteria, and creation of new viral species that threaten us. The origin of these would be big mysteries. Is it God being malicious that is creating these new Viruses? Some would claim it is because there are homosexuals in the US so God created new viruses to plague us because he is unhappy with us. The understanding that ties genetics together would be missing. what about overuse of triclosan? We only know about that from an understanding of evolution. Species close to humans so that we can extrapolate laboratory studies on animal models to humans? We know that from using evolutionary understanding. Evolution is extremely important in biology, just like gravity is in physics. There are literally hundreds of thousands of testable predictions. The literature is full of them. Do you think all those millions of scientists are lying to you? A conspiracy? All those courts that ruled against creationism? Are the judges minions of Satan? Do you think that all of science is full of stupid people and only you and a few other malcontent extremists are smart enough to figure it all out? Give me a break. And yes, about half of the US population has been abducted by alien spacecraft piloted by bigfoot, who was in a conspiracy to fake the moon landing and bring down the world trade center and blame it on the arab muslims. Right...tell me another one.--Filll 20:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: You're asking about a fairly narrow issue, but to answer your question regarding predictions regarding humans and reptiles:  evolution predicted that the jawbones of reptiles evolved into the bones of the inner ear of mammals.  This was mocked by creationists for a long period of time ("how could the reptiles chew?" being a common complaint) but we have recently found transitional species.  Upon further invetigation we found that the reptillian jawbones of the transition species were capable of transferring sound better than previous organisms.  Collectively, our understanding of things like this and our ability to make predictions from evolution has led to just about everything in modern biology, be it better medicines or an understanding of the environment and the creatures that inhabit it.  Tarinth 
ok how has the alleged fact that we came from reptiles ehance our lives?
read carefully. antibiotic resistance would be there whether we came from reptiles or were created in the garden of eden. or if aliens seeded the planet. yes i agree knowledge of evolution helps us but how would things be different if God or aliens designed the DNA coding?
what it modern biology would not exist if again aliens seeded the earth and caused the cambrian explosion?
thanks for stopping by
raspor 20:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: As many creationists do, you are mixing apples and oranges, as I am sure you know. Abiogenesis and panspermia have nothing to do with evolution. This is about evolution, not that other stuff. So go to those articles to discuss it. This is not about the big bang. This is not about abiogenesis or radioactive decay or Usher's date for creation or dynamo theory of the earth or hubble's constant or any of thousands of other pieces of nonsense that people invent to try to protect biblical inerrancy. It is about evolution. Period.--Filll 21:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparison of gravity and evolution

message: Evolution = atheism
Evolution= religion
ID=science
atheists=Humanists=naturalists
Creationism=science
evolution=Big Bang+cosmochemistry+Hertzsprung-Russell Stellar theory+abiogenesis+biological evolution+speciation
scientists=atheists
ID>creationism
Christians=biblical literalists
Catholics != Christians
scientists!= Christians
Religion=Christianity
Religious Creation accounts=Genesis--Filll 18:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Intelligent Design Mathematics