Talk:Jedi Exile

message: I removed the description of the Exile as a silent protagonist. This is the first sentence of the Silent Protagonist page on wikipedia: 
"A silent protagonist is a central character who does not 
verbally interact with other characters within a story's narrative"
During the course of the game the Exile verbally interacts with almost every other character in the game. 
Lower down the same page it is stated that the Silent Protagonist in a game "does not have lines of text on screen" and "does not have scripted character dialog." 
The Exile could not possibly fit this description less.Evilrodhull 14:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the character most definitely verbally interacts with the other characters... we just don't hear it (and the response options in dialogues most certainly counts as "scripted character dialog"). EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silent Protagonist 

message: In one part of the article it states that despite being referenced as a male, the Exile is officially cannonized as a female, but then in the template it explains that cannonically the Exile is male. Can we get some citations on these statements? Thanks. 71.225.125.176 20:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The New Essential Guide to Droids states that the Exile is female. -- I need a name (talk) 20:10, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

text: And to clarify, that book is considered (by some, at least) to be Star Wars canon, which is why it's used to determine the Exile's gender. --clpo13(talk) 20:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing Gender 

message: Wow, congrats to the updater of this page. We could make a separate page with info on the female Exile. But this page is great. --Psi edit
:I added alot more to the Lightside ending. Please find necessary corrections. --Psi edit
:: Why make a seperate page for a female Exile if the same done for a female Revan is met with incredible harshness?  Make them both ambiguous to reflect the reality of the game. 71.110.147.146 01:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Tsk, tsk...being rational about a Star Wars Wikipedia entry?  For shame!  Seriously though, Exile has been called "she" in dead tree format--a.k.a, a published book about droids. In the same book, Revan was left gender ambiguous, so technically, if you're going to pretend Wikipedia doesn't reflect the realities of the game but only the canon Lucas et al have set up (and then only by the flimsiest of margins), it's Exile that should have people rabidly frothing at the mouth to make sure everyone knows she's female while Revan's article should be changed to make his/her gender ambiguous. I dunno--I think y'all should pick one or the other way ro treat *both* characters and stick with it.  Stil, I like the ambiguous for both rout best, because reality says they can be both, and if LucasArts wanted to canonize their genders, they shouldn't have given us a choice in the first place. 71.110.147.146 01:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Congrats and additions 

message: From the article:
:The amount of death and destruction caused such a substantial 'wound' in the Force that the Exile found himself suddenly and completely severed from it.
Wasn't it later revealed through conversations with Kreia that the destruction didn't sever the Exile from the Force, but rather, the Exile severed himself from the Force because of the destruction? He did it because if he didn't, the sheer amount of pain from the destruction rippling through the Force would have killed him, so he cut himself off completely, albeit he did it unknowingly.
I'd rather have someone confirm this than play through the game again. If I'm correct, I'll go ahead and throw in a sentence or two after the above part. --Sprintabm 23:20, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My thoughts were confirmed by the Malachor V entry, so I'm going to go ahead and do it. --Sprintabm 23:31, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur- I remember Kreia saying some things to the effect that she saw the Exile as a hope for a future without the Force, since he voluntarily lived without it, and became even stronger as a result. --maru 13:16, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Didn't he sever himself? 

message: If there isn't an official statement you shouldn't put it in there.  Going off of guesses isn't good enough.  People think that if it's been stated here then it's official.  You're doing nothing more then starting rumors at this point. --Anonymous
:I've tried to not put in anything I didn't feel close examination of dialogue (especially Kreia's; in many ways she is the most important character in the game) wouldn't support. I will reviwe the article for weakly supported statements however. --maru 14:57, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canonizing 

message: Although it is stated that the male choice is canonical, I changed the Exile's gender from male to unknown. After all, Revan is also referred to as male at the corresponding page, but his gender is listed as unknown.
:Oops!
:/scurries off to change it. --maru 18:17, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender 

message: Since when is the light side male ending canon?
:As the article says, "While it is not yet explicitly clear which ending is canonical, the official stance from Lucasfilm on games where players can choose between the light side and dark side has traditionally been that the light side ending is the canonical one." Nufy8 02:47, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's still undecided. I removed the "female" and "male" words in the section headings, since it was kind of misleading. Nufy8 04:06, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Curious.... 

message: that this has suffered the same fate as the Darth Revan page. They all say that light side male is canon, and their proof is a worker who said that over the internet. What they fail to realize is that the only two things that are canon, are the movies and George Lucas. He owns the copywright to Star Wars, no one else does.
You should really read the article on Star Wars canon. --Cronodude360 22:39, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Calm down; unlike Revan, the canonical gender and alignment for Exile haven't been set yet. See the Wookieepedia article for details. - Sikon 11:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Game storyline + general info is C-canon. And generally, if the player chooses, the canon is light sided male. That doesn't mean that the female storyline isn't valid, but that for continuity among other works, Revan and Exile are male and went to the light side of the Force. These are more canon than the dark side / femal endings. – Xolatron 21:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are mistaken. Light side male is canon for Revan, not the Exile, for whom the canonical ending is currently unset. I repeat, see Wookieepedia:Jedi Exile for more information. - Sikon 00:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, but why is one set and not the other? – Xolatron 15:58, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to wonder why as well--it seems that according to the Wookiepedia article and talk page, the Exile is reffered to as a 'heroine' in a published book, but I don't recall any published evidence suggesting the canon gender of Revan, just a comment on the Internet by someone who didn't want to set Revan's gender and avoided it as much as possible.  At least, Revan's article here does not cite any published material on the subject.  I'd prefer they remained listed as gender unknown because in the game their gender and allignment is up to the player, which is a far cry from saying any EU character's gender is up for debate if the reader/viewer/player had no choice in the matter.  But since Wikipedia insists on defining the reality of a videogame by Lucas fiat, Exile is a woman. 71.110.172.13 06:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Please don't tell me...

message: See Wookieepedia:Talk:Jedi_Exile#Exile_confirmed_as_female. - Sikon 05:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've changed the article to reflect this. 71.110.172.13 05:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exile confirmed as female 

message: Who else thinks it's horrible? Plus it's a GIF. - Sikon 06:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think its of fairly low quality, but until someone suggests a better one, it should stay. EVula 15:02, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: Well, I'm still not liking the Exile being female (cuz I am a guy), but I'll go with it for now.  I do have one problem.  Does the Exile become a true Jedi after Kreia's death?  Some of what the Jedi Masters said at Dantooine got me confused.  Does the Exile's leeching stop?  If anyoen can explain the science, I'd appreciate it. --Jedi Striker 00:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  True Jedi Afterwards 

message: Has an offical Prestige class been set for the Exile?  -Jedi Striker 14:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canon Prestige class? 

message: ...for the "The Exile's Journey" in particular. I'll get to it later if no one else does, I guess. Icewolf34 18:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy-Edit Needed 

message: Maybe someone can clear this up for me: isn't the Exile Revan? Or is there not enough evidence to support this? I mean, why else would HK-47 and T3-M4 be present? Clpo13 07:12, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: HK-47 and T3-M4 are there because Revan ditched them to go out to the depths of space (the reason for which was left open, probably for KotOR 3). They're with the Exile because they come with the Ebon Hawk. EVula 16:49, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *All right, got it. I didn't know about the whole gender thing. I suppose that makes sense. (Note: I'm the same guy as above; my IP changes and WP won't let me log in.) Clpo13 05:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Identity confusion 

message: Doesn't Visas refuse to wear the dancer's costume right from the begining?  Just wondering because it says in this section that Visas or the Handmaiden will wear it.  Darthgriz98 20:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Behind the scenes

message: Apparently, a number of users refuse to acknowledge that the Jedi Exile is canonically female and keep editing the article to say otherwise. Would it be possible, perhaps, to protect this article from being vandalized by anonymous users to prevent this? --clpo13 07:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever happened to the section in the article that explained the canonicity? It had links and excerpts from Star Wars books but the section seems to have completely disappeared. Anyway, you can request protection on WP:RFP. Gdo01 07:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I never cited Wookiepedia. The droid book and the keeper of the holocron both say she is female. Both of those are canonical. Geesh, why is it so hard for men to deal with a hero being a woman? Gdo01 22:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

text: As Gdo01 said above, the evidence is in two Star Wars books considered canonical: the New Essential Chronology and the New Essential Guide to Droids, I believe. Both reference the Exile as female. --clpo13 20:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

text: AFAIK, only the New Essential Essential Guide to Droids states the Exile's gender. The New Essential Chronology is the source for Revan's gender. I don't have either of these books, so I can't scan the relevant entries from them. I doubt it would quell the gender war though, because, as we all know, only the movies and George Lucas are canon, not some worker over the internet, and the trailer and website refer to the Exile as a male, and if you e-mail iknoweverythingaboutstarwars@hotmail.com, he'll tell you about how the Exile was a male, and... -- I need a name 18:58, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Even if copyright wasn't an issue, people are always going to have their own opinions about the gender. Not everyone can swallow a female player character, as unfortunate as that is. --clpo13 06:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have scans of the New Essential Guide to Droids pages that confirm the Exile is canonically female. Are they needed as evidence? - Sikon 16:24, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Protect this article?

message: Despite everyone scrambling over the exile's "correct" gender, since no other game, book, or other star wars material has a story that absolutly requires the exile to be female, (the mention of the exile's gender in "New Essential Guide to Droids" is simply a statement, not a story which absoulty requires the exile to be female) I can play through the game with a male exile and say that in my mind, that can be the canon story. BassxForte 18:57, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct Gender 

message: All right, I thought the gender issue had been cleared up, but apparently this is one dead horse that's going to keep getting beaten. First off, the consensus on the this talk page seems to be that the gender of the Exile is female. However, The Matrix Prime, among others, keeps making references to some discussion on the Administrator's Noticeboard saying that the article was made gender neutral. I cannot find this discussion anywhere. If such a consensus was made, could someone please link to the actual discussion in question, and not the main page for the noticeboard? It would make life for future editors so much easier if they knew a consensus was made by the administrator's and not just random editors who don't like the Exile as female. --clpo13 19:55, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no such discussion, and even if there was, consensus is irrelevant in this matter: the canonical gender for the Jedi Exile is female. Fact > consensus. EVula // talk // ☯ // 20:02, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Even if the discussion did exist at some point, it doesn't now, leaving only the Guide as evidence of a female gender, which could easily be confirmed by anyone possessing a copy of it. Here, how about we put up some sort of poll or debate on this talk page so we can actually get a consensus by editors working on this page? Options: female, male, gender neutral. Then we accept the results of that poll and get on with things. Does that sound fair to everyone? I mean, half of the people concerned about the Exile's gender aren't going to accept a Star Wars book, and the other half aren't going to accept a currently invisible admin discussion (regardless of its previous existence). We need a concrete consensus that everyone can see when they come on to the article's talk page. --clpo13 17:28, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

text: To clarify my position: I don't care what gender the Exile is. But a gender neutral article is extremely messy, what with all the "his/her" and "s/he" things going on. It's a bit unencyclopedic as far as readability goes. Besides, if we're going to make this gender neutral because the character can be either male or female, you'd have to change the articles for every video game character that has a user-chosen gender, regardless of canon or other evidence supporting one gender or another. Anyways, as long as there is some evidence supporting a specific gender being the "official" gender, the article should be written for that gender. Filling the article with "himself/herself" and the like makes it look messy. Or, as an alternative, the plot section could be written from the player's standpoint, leaving any mention of the Exile out completely. A good example of that would be The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion plot section. That's just my opinion, though. Anything would work better than the current state of affairs. --clpo13 19:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What discussion? 

message: I've started on a rather large rewrite of the whole article in order to clean up some rather horrible grammar and sentence structuring throughout it as well as to make the article a bit less messy with regards to the as-of-yet undecided gender of the Exile. The aim is to, hopefully, remove the in-universe tag at the top of the article. I'm not sure if my edits have made any progress towards that goal, but the parts I edited are (I think) much easier to read. I stopped about 2/3 of the way down the Journey section where it says "In Onderon, the great city of Iziz..." If anyone wants to pick up where I left off in cleaning up and rewriting, that's great. Otherwise, this is just a reminder to myself where I need to finish. --clpo13 06:33, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How is the gender undecided?  The New Essential Guide to Droids clearly states that The Exile is female.  Clearly!  JoJoTrue 17:14, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The gender hardly matters at all. Any plot summary should by ~700 words or less per MOS/practice for featured articles. The fact that follow-up published materials identify the character as female is worth a sentence. So, too, is the fact that boxart or whatever shows something else, and that ultimately the player decides. That's it. It's laughable that so many people keeping reverting back and forth on this gender issue which is, ultimately, an incredibly minor point. --EEMeltonIV 17:57, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. While I do agree the Exile is female, due to the lack of any solid consensus about the issue, I'm keeping it neutral for now. Also, there isn't really a plot section, per se, in this article since it's about the Exile, not the game (KotOR II) itself. It's more of a fictional bio, although it could bear to be trimmed a bit. I'm just going through and cleaning it up for now. It's quite a messy article. --clpo13 08:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It also occurs to me that, since this is a one-shot character with no notability outside the game, it might be best to turn this page into a redirect and save the rewrite to the KotOR II article. --EEMeltonIV 08:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe, but there is quite a bit of information regarding this one character. That's just the inclusionist in me talking, though (clean-up instead of deletion/redirects). I think cutting out some of the really unnecessary content here would be best while leaving the bio mostly intact. I mean, there is a rather nice article on Revan, a similarly one-shot (or two, I suppose, if you include mentions in KotOR II) character. It's a lot more concise than this one is now, and even includes a section specifically regarding the gender, which this article could probably use. --clpo13 08:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Massive rewrite 

message: A recent contribution put the Exile's homeworld as Dantooine based on an in-game conversation where it's revealed the Exile grew up there. But does this really count towards homeworld? I thought a person's homeworld was where they were born not where they were raised. I mean, the Exile would have been raised on Dantooine because of the Academy there. Personally, I think the homeworld should be where the Exile was born, and that has yet to be determined (meaning the bit in the infobox shouldn't be there). But that's just my opinion. --clpo13 02:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess that makes sense. Kind of like a hometown: it's not necessarily where you were born. --clpo13(talk) 20:42, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homeworld 

message: Why has the article been cut down so much? It was much longer some months ago. — Texcarson 22:31, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Certain editors had concerns that the Jedi Exile wasn't notable enough to warrant having her own article, which resulted in a redirect to the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II page. The page was restored, though cut down significantly as a compromise. As far as I can tell, the majority of the content removed was the fictional biography, which was massive and a bit confusing at times, since the Exile's biography changes somewhat depending on player choices. The page had been tagged with an in-universe tag for a while, so I'd guess that most of the removals corrected that problem. The talk page archives might provide more information, but I think the change to a redirect was almost completely undiscussed. --clpo13(talk) 04:11, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: What happened?

message: I have redirected this stub -- which was reduced to game trivia focusing on minutiae between whether the character is played as male or female -- to the list of Star Wars characters. --EEMIV (talk) 14:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have again restored the redirect. Article's contents were entirely in-universe. The references listed adopt an in-universe perspective. The topic fails to meet WP:GNG; the article fails to meet WP:RS. --EEMIV (talk) 21:17, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirect

message: At the ending of KOTOR 2 (being a huge fan completing the first and second of the series) im curious because you learn that the exile and Kreia have a special bond making it so that if one of them are affected the other is also. When you beat Kreia in the final battle in the heart of Malachor v, you have the chance to ask her what happens to your companions futures and then you say at the end its time to rest (she dies) and the cut-scene rolls in with the Ebon Hawk picking up the exile and leaving the planet before it blows up, a result of Bao-Dur's remote carrying out its role in setting off the Mass shield generator holding malachor v together. My question is that shouldn't the exile die when Kreia dies because of the force bond?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.111.48 (talk) 21:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ending of the storyline