Talk:Abstract art

message: I tried to add the following fact: 
Abstract art has the advantage that it is engages the young in an activity completely devoid of political, ethical, or moral context. Says who? I believe it was John D. Rockefeller in response to Diego Rivera's mural.
It was removed in record time - less than a minute.  I think that it is very important that artists realize that abstract art is the only kind of painting, since the beginning of painting, that does not contain political, ethical, or moral content.  How can this fact be included in this article?  How should this be worded to satisfy everyone?
Certainly any movement will have its supporters and detractors.  It is less than complete to disallow a full disclosure of the main mention of or arguments of these movements and critics.  I notice below in the discussion that a link to the art renewal movement has been disallowed.  It seems to me that by the article violates NPOV.
:I was set to revert it, but Modernist beat me to it. It is a non-sequitur ('has the advantage' is also POV), and of little use without a reference. If you can provide a good source, and add it in the right context, please try again. Also, remember to sign your posts. JNW 22:09, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: PURE NONSENSE! You clearly have a lot to learn about abstract art. Give me a break! Everything and I mean everything has moral, ethical and political content and meaning. If you do not understand this, and the spiritual, and metaphysical roots of abstract art - then you have no business writing about it. I suggest you learn something about it, read a book, read Clement Greenberg, Harold Rosenberg, Gertrude Stein, Rosalind Krauss, Lucy Lippard, Wassily Kandinsky, Piet Mondrian, - thats why I reverted your comment.  Learn about aesthetics, energy, the meaning of color, beauty, balance, surface, touch, subtlety, power, nature, weather, emotion, - give me a break. Modernist 22:41, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. That's why I suggest the necessity of a reference, which one presumes will not be forthcoming. JNW 23:21, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

text: The thread of this is a bit hard to follow, as it now includes recent thoughts inserted into older discussion, and is at times difficult to comprehend who is addressing whom. It is also getting off track--the point remains, is content supported by verifiable sources? If proposed additions are not so supported, then they are apt to violate WP:NPOV, and will not remain for long. JNW (talk) 12:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

text: An encyclopedia that makes no effort to adhere to verifiable information is a WP:SOAPBOX; there are blogs aplenty for the dissemination of opinion. JNW (talk) 17:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Art Renewal Movement is definitely noteworthy enough to include in this article. It is the opposite end of the pendulum for sure when it comes to contemporary art movements. It would be reasonable to show both sides of the abstract art debate. 76.10.168.53 (talk) 02:51, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Moral, Ethical, and Political Implications

message: Joe Jacks is an American Abstract expressionist who used purely abstract techniques and i'd like him to be included in that list. If anything, he was involved in the scene at a more formative time than even Pollock was. His reference will improve this article and knowledge of him. He is under the wikipedia banner of abstract artists also. His fame shouldn't decide his inclusion, people longing on to wikipedia and looking into abstract art will get to know about another artist from the formative period of it's New York birth. It improves the article.
Please comment if you object to his inclusion, don't just take it down.
Thanks guys Stuedgar 21:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joe Jacks 

message: How can we have Freshacconi removed from participating? This is clearly an abuse and is making the Wikipedia project fail. Freshacconi's points are poor and contrary to fundamental art historical scholarship. It's disgusting.74.75.112.199 (talk) 12:32, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Gosh, I didn't know about these guys. Very illuminating - talk about false polarities - and their website does read a lot like New Age kookiness applied to Fine Art - viz, there is a Grand Conspiracy suppressing the (visual) Truth. The funny thing is that I have recently noticed that an awful lot of stuff by their idol, William-Adolphe Bouguereau is used on Wikipedia - in particular as illustrations for articles on mythology. Probably just an accident, but could be a systematic tendency. Tarquin Binary 03:49, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Direction of Page 

message: Someone has typed partially random text into this article. If this happens again, or has happened in the past I would suggest Semi-protection of this page. I think it may be vunrerble due to the topic.
Ultra two 17:37, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nonsence typing

message: Just wanted to say this needs alot more info. I'm trying to learn about Abstract Art for art college and i got only the minimum here...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.110.108 (talk) 22:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Wikipedia is really a general-level encyclopedia. The information is often great for basic research, but for college-level research you should be digging a bit deeper (i.e. books and academic journals). Having said that, this particular article does need a great deal of work and could use some sources. That way, people coming here can get the basic info and then have a list of references to turn to. I'll make a note of this on the article (I never actually noticed that this article had almost no references). Thanks for the wake-up. freshacconcispeaktome 22:39, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  more info maybe? 

message: Citing another wikipedia article is not helpful. That's kind of like citing your friend who agrees with you who doesn't have any evidence either  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.12.68.218 (talk) 07:26, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: MoMA supplies some information here from which we might be able to derive a definition of "abstract art". Bus stop (talk) 19:34, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: I am moving part of the History section here to the talk page for further discussion because it does not discuss history.
Generally, the term "abstract art" is used in a discussion of the development of the representational fine arts in Western culture - specifically when the primacy of the represented object was transcended to the point where the work of art was no longer legible as an iconic reference to another object but was still legible as a work in its own medium: e.g., a painting is seen as a painting but not a painting of something other than itself.
The term is intermingled with other terms such as "non-objective" and "non-representation." The common usage of any of these terms refers to works of art - mostly painting and sculpture - that do not depict a visual object. 
The most common understanding of abstract art is as a phenomenon of 20th century. fine art in the Western culture. By definition, art does not exist without a cultural context. (see Gardner's Art Through the Ages, Clement Greenberg's collected writings.)
Also, the first paragraph is incomprehensible. Nevertheless, this information could be useful in the article. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 17:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: History section

message: Abstract art may make very prominent references to real objects... eg. the anthropomorphic forms of Alberto Giacometti or biomorphic artworks.  This needs to be reflected in the abstract art article, especially in the intro/definition.
: I strongly disagree with the opinion expressed by the unsigned comment above. Modernist (talk) 16:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Another opinion

message: I agree the article needs intelligent, good and verified text. The Kandinsky book is a great source as is the LA County catalog...A few years ago Hilton Kramer wrote an essay and gave several lectures concerning the influence of Theosophy, Madame Blavatsky, and P.D. Ouspensky on the early Geometric abstractionists, Piet Mondrian, Wassily Kandinsky and the early days of Modernism and abstraction in the 20th century. I spoke with him briefly about Georges Gurdjieff also. However the influence on Mondrian and Kandinsky and the other artists is essentially marginal, as really the aesthetics of painting, the basic politic of the art makes itself felt and comes through irregardless of the initial impulse or rationale. Please be mindful of WP:AGF and avoid copyright violations regarding text from other sources. I think this can be a better article. Although the Geometric abstractionists and Russian Constructivists weren't the only ones in the mix, clearly the roots of 20th century abstraction is deeply connected to Impressionism, Post-Impressionism, via Fauvism, Cubism, Orphism and even Dada and Surrealism. What is interesting is the changing definition of the word itself as the 20th century played out...Modernist (talk) 13:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Additions

message: I would be very grateful if anyone working on this would read the following text to see if it might form the basis of the article. There is more now on its roots in Impressionism etc as suggested by Modernist above.  
Abstract art: Wikipedia article, 28 June 2008
Abstract art uses a visual language of form, colour and line to create a composition which exists independently of visual references to the world.Rudolph Arnheim, Visual Thinking Western art had been, from the Renaissance up to the middle of the 19th century, underpinned by the logic of perspective and an attempt to reproduce an illusion of visible reality. The arts of cultures other than the European had become accessible and showed  alternative ways to the artist, of describing visual experience (see:Paul Gauguin, Vincent Van Gogh). By the end of the 19th century many artists felt a need to create a 'new kind of art' which would encompass the fundamental changes taking place in technology, science and philosophy. The sources from which individual artists drew their theoretical arguments were diverse, and reflected the social and intellectual turmoil in all areas of Western culture at that time. Mel Gooding, Abstract Art, Tate Publishing,London, 2000  
Abstraction in early art and many cultures 
Much of the art of earliest peoples: signs and marks on pottery, textiles and inscriptions and paintings on rock ; were simple, geometric and linear forms which might have had a symbolic or decorative purpose.Gyorgy Kepes, Sign, Symbol and Image,    It is at this level of visual rather than literary meaning that abstract art communicates. One can enjoy the beauty of an Chinese calligraphy or Islamic script, for example, without being able to read it. 
Art in the 19th century 
The two art movements which preceded the development of abstract art were Impressionism and Expressionism. The independence of the artist was growing during the nineteenth century as patronage from the church diminished. An 'objective interest in what is seen',  can be discerned from
the paintings of John Constable. J M W Turner, Camille Corot and from thence to the Impressionists who continued the 'open air' painting of the Barbizon school. Paul Cezanne had begun as an Impressionist but  his aim: to make a logical construction of reality based on a view from a single  point  Herbert Read, A Concise History of Modern Art, Thames and Hudson, with modulated colour in flat areas, became the basis of a new visual  art, later  to be developed into Cubism by George Braque, Pablo Picasso.  Expressionism was an emotive reaction to Impressionism and drew influences principally from the work of Edvard Munch and from the Post-Impressionists.    
The new art
In 1913 the poet Guillaume Appollinaire named the work of Robert and Sonia Delaunay, 'Orphism'. He defined it as,' the art of painting new structures out of elements that have not been borrowed from the visual sphere, but had been created entirely by the artist...it is a pure art'. 
Early intimations of a new art had been made earlier by James McNeill Whistler who, in his painting 'Nocturne in Black and Gold: The falling Rocket ' (1872) , was placing greater emphasis on visual sensation than the depiction of objects.  
Since the turn of the century cultural connections  between artists of the major European and American cities had become extremely active as they strove to create an art form equal to the high aspirations of Modernism. Ideas were able to cross-fertilize by means of artists books, exhibitions and manifestos so that many sources were open to experimentation and discussion, and formed a basis for a diversity of modes of abstraction. The following extract from,'The World Backwards' , gives some impression of the inter-connectedness of culture at the time:
' David Burliuk's knowledge of modern art movements must have been extremely up-to-date, for the second Knave of Diamonds exhibition, held in January 1912 (in Moscow) included not only paintings sent from Munich, but some members of the German Die Brucke group, while from Paris came work by Robert Delaunay, Henri Matisse and Fernand Leger, as well as Picasso. During the Spring David Burliuk gave two lectures on cubism and planned a polemical publication, which the Knave of Diamonds was to finance. He went abroad in May and came back determined to rival the almanac Der Blaue Reiter which had emerged from the printers while he was in Germany'. 
By 1911 many experimental works in the search for this 'pure art' had been created. Frantisek Kupka had painted the Orphist work,'Discs                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of Newton'.The Rayist (Luchizm) drawings of Natalia Goncharova and Mikhail Larionov, used lines like rays of light to make a construction.Kasimir Malevich completed his first entirely abstract work, the Suprematist, 'Black Square', in 1915. Another of the Suprematist group' Liubov Popova, created the Architectonic Constructions and Spatial Force Constructions between  1916 and 1921. Piet Mondrian was evolving his abstract language, of horizontal and vertical lines with rectangles of colour, between 1915 and 1919,  Neo-Plasticism was the aesthetic which Mondrian, Theo van Doesburg and other in the group De Stijl intended to reshape the environment of the future.
Some approaches towards an abstract art 
Music
provides an example of an art form which uses the abstract elements of sound and divisions of time   Wassili Kandinsky , himself a musician, was inspired by the possibility of marks and associative colour 'resounding in the soul' .  The idea had been put forward by Charles Baudelaire, that all our senses respond to various stimuli but the senses are connected at a deeper aesthetic level. 
The spiritual dimension
Closely related to this, is the idea that art can transcend 'every-day' experience, reaching a spiritual  plane. The Theosophical Society popularised the ancient wisdom of the sacred books of India , China  in the early years of the century. It was in this context that Mondrian, Kandinsky and other artists working towards an  'objectless state'  became  interested in the occult as a way of creating an 'inner' object. 
Geometry 
The universal and timeless shapes: the circle, square and triangle become the spacial elements in abstract art because they are , like colour, fundamental systems underlying visible reality.   
1921-22
Many of the abstract artists in Russia became Constructivists believing that Art was no longer something remote, but life itself. The artist must become a technician, learning to use the tools and materials of modern production. 'Art into life!' was Vladimir Tatlin's slogan , and that of all the future Constructivists. Varvara Stepanova and Alexandre Exter and others abandoned easel painting diverted their energies to theatre design and graphic works.
On the other side stood Malevich,  Anton Pevsner and Naum Gabo. They argued that art was essentially a spiritual activity; to create the individual's place in the world , not to organise life in a practical, materialistic sense. Many of those who were hostile to the materialist production idea of art left Russia . Anton Pevsner went to France, Gabo went first to Berlin, then to England and finally to America. Kandinsky studied in Moscow then left for the Bauhaus. The revolutionary period when from 1917 to 1921 artists had been free to experiment , was now over and by the 1930s only social realist art was allowed.  Camilla Gray, The Russian Experiment in Art, 1863-1922, Thames and Hudson, 1962
The Bauhaus 1919-1925
The Bauhaus at Weimar, Germany was founded in 1919 by Walter Gropius.Walter Gropius et. al.,Bauhaus 1919-1928, Museum of Modern Art, 1938 The philosophy underlying the teaching programme was unity of all the visual and plastic arts from architecture and painting to weaving and stained glass. This philosophy had grown from the ideas of the Arts and Crafts movement in England and the Deutche Werkbund. Among the teachers were Paul Klee, Johannes Itten, Joseph Albers, Anni Albers, Theo van Doesburg and Laslo Maholy-Nagy. In 1925 the school was moved to Dessau and, as the Nazi party gained control in 1932, The Bauhaus was closed. In 1937 an exhibition of degenerate art, 'Entartete Kunst' contained all types of avant-garde art disapproved of by the Nazi party. Then the exodus began: not just from the Bauhaus but from Europe in general; to Paris, London and America. Paul Klee went to Switzerland but many of the artists at the Bauhaus went to America.
Abstraction in Paris and London 
During the 1930s Paris became the host to artists from Russia, Germany, Holland and other European countries affected by the rise of totalitarianism. Sophie Tauber and Jean Arp colabourated on paintings and sculpture using organic/geometric forms. The Polish Katarzyna Kobro applied mathematically based ideas to sculpture.  The many types of abstraction now in close proximity led to attempts by artists to analyse the various conceptual and aesthetic groupings. An exhibition by fourty-six members of the Cercle et Carré group organised by Michel Seuphor Michel Seuphor, Abstract Painting contained work by the Neo-Plasticists as well as abstracts as varied as Kandinsky, Anton Pevsner and Kurt Schwitters. Criticised by Theo van Doesburg to be too indefinite a collection he publish the journal 'Art Concret' setting out a  manifesto defining an abstract art in which the line, colour and surface only, are the concrete reality. Abstraction-Création founded in 1931 as a more open group, provided a point of reference for abstract artists, as the political situation worsened in 1935 , and artists again regrouped , many in London. The first exhibition of British abstract art was held in England in 1935. The following year the more international 'Abstract and Concrete' exhibition was organised by Nicolete Gray including work by Mondrian, Miro, Nicholson and Hepworth. Barbara Hepworth,Ben Nicholson and  Gabo moved to St.Ives group in Cornwall to continue their 'constructivist' work.  Anna Moszynska, Abstract Art, Thames and Hudson, 1990          
America: abstract expressionism
The main movements in modern art, expressionism, cubism, abstraction, surrealism, and dada were represented in New York:Marcel Duchamp had arrived in 1915. Later came Fernand Leger , Piet Mondrian, Jaques Lipchitz, Max Ernst, Andre Breton, who were were just a few of the exiled  EuropeansGillian Naylor, The Bauhaus, Studio Vista, 1968.
The climate of freedom in New York allowed all these influences to flourish into a great diversity of styles which became known as the New York school. There was an atmosphere which encouraged discussion and there was opportunity for learning and growing. It became the centre, and artists gravitated towards it; from other places in America as wellHenry Geldzahler, New York Painting and Sculpture: 1940-1970, Metropolitan Museum of Modern Art, 1969. Sam Francis and Richard Diebenkorn came from the West coast. The rich cultural influences brought by the European artists were distilled and built upon  by the New York painters, but certain of these became  distinctly abstract in their mature work. Mark Rothko, born in Russia, began with strongly surrealist imagery which later dissolved into his powerful colour compositions of the 1950s. The expressionistic gesture and the act of painting itself, became of primary importance to Jackson Pollock and Franz Kline.
Abstract art from 1950s onwards
There was a resurgence after the war and into the 1950s of the figurative, as Pop art came to signify the age of consumerism. However, abstraction remained very much in view ; its main themes : the transcendental, the contemplative and the timeless exempified by Barnett Newman and Agnes Martin and Brice Marden: 'Art as Object' as seen in the Minimalist sculpture of Donald Judd and Carl Andre: and thirdly a Matissian lyrical abstraction and sensuous  use of colour for example Patrick Heron and Helen Frankenthaler.
The distinction between abstract and figurative art has, over the last twenty years, become less defined leaving a wider range of ideas for all artists .80.41.166.203 (talk) 22:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion for a text

message: The above is unsatisfactory......too much red ink, too much gratuitous digression, too much basic mis-information, too much dependency on other articles. MAKE A SHORT, SUCCINCT, SELF RELIANT, TEXT.  Modernist (talk) 21:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am referring to all the blue linked articles in my remarks below....and several more that I haven't delineated....Modernist (talk) 17:01, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Red ink]]

message: 1. Modernist, in reply to your comments above, I would like to remind you that you are just one of the contributors to this article. You have no overall authority to make these unsupported remarks. Your use of capital letters is unnecessary; please explain why you have used them.
2.  Abstract art is a main catagory and needs to be very wide and comprehensive in order to make the many links with related articles.
3. I would be interested if you would give one or two examples of 'mis-information'in this article. 
4. Will you explain which 'other articles' you are refering to.
paula clare (talk) 21:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Excuse me? Actually I completely agree with you that I have no authority over these pages, I never said that I did, you asked for opinions and I gave you mine. I used capital letters and bold to make a point, although I would think that would have been self-evident. As to inaccuracies above I have already commented, and as Tyrenius suggests add to the article and we will see how it develops.  I have worked pretty hard here, my advice to you is to just do your best. I've made substantial contributions to nearly all the linked articles in my comments below. Modernist (talk) 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: reply to [[Red ink]] 

message: While I haven't had time to read this through, - at first perusal it has good information - but lots of redundencies - Most of this material is already covered by many different articles, there are these articles that simply should be linked:  -  Orphism (art), Synchromism, Cubism, Russian avant-garde, Suprematism, Constructivism (art), Bauhaus, De Stijl, Geometric abstraction, Hard-edge painting, Abstract expressionism, Color Field, Lyrical Abstraction, Post-painterly abstraction, El Lissitzky, Neo-expressionism, Expressionism, Action Painting, History of painting, Western painting, Impressionism, Post-Impressionism, Neo-Impressionism, Fauvism, Modernism, Late Modernism, Postmodern art, Monochrome painting, Shaped canvas, Minimal art, Postminimalism and others, several others..like Sculpture, with a section on modernist sculpture, and Wassily Kandinsky, Piet Mondrian, Paul Klee, Fernand Leger, and many other artists who are covered in detail by individual articles. In my opinion this article should attempt a relatively economic and modest definition and position - given the scope and breadth of the related articles. Please reference all additions. I will try to carefully read the above in the next few days...Modernist (talk) 01:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Concerning the above

message: I've quickly gone over the text in the article, and I edited what I could. I think it needs references and I am concerned about any copyright violations the previous editor might have made. Please reference all material from outside sources. The text needs work. Modernist (talk) 16:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New text

message: In Italy the early abstract works (collaborations with Kandinsky and Malevich) were done by many artists: I've included only the two "school leaders" (Manlio Rho and Mario Radice) because of the relative importance given (so far!!) to italian abstract movement by international market.
If you may think useful to add a specific paragraph on Italy, let me know. ArtDMaster (talk)   4 Sept 2008  —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:09, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  inclusion of Italian artists 

message: "Abstract art uses a visual language of form, color and line to create a composition which exists independently of visual references to the world."  I would recommend consulting multiple sources for the definition.  Many other sources explain abstract art to actually have a visual reference.  Art that exists independantly from a visual refernce is "non-representational", not abstract.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.174.222.195 (talk) 20:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  definition of abstract art 

message: Would a link to http://www.redbubble.com/abstract-art be acceptable and relevant ? This is a group on a commercial site that gathers (at the moment, but keeps growing) 1800 artists and 9000 non objective abstract artworks (no registration needed to browse).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.160.53.229 (talk) 00:19, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No. It's a nice link though. It doesn't add relevancy to an historical overview and it's basically a commercial site....Modernist (talk) 00:23, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I was afraid that would be the case...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.160.53.229 (talk) 19:15, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: An article on Wikipedia does not need a critical summing up: it should be purely informative. This section is PO.A list of working abstract artists chosen to represent a range of ouvres, to direct readers further, is all that is necessary.(Paula Clare (talk) 18:18, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. In fact I think the section doesn't even need the listing of artists. The question that might be addressed, if there is any information on it, is what characterizes abstraction in the twenty-first century in distinction from earlier periods? Bus stop (talk) 18:34, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_art#Abstraction_in_the_21st_century Abstraction in the 21st Century] 

message: This looks to me like a violation of WP:OR, it is placed here pending the outcome of 2 AfDs, here  and here ...Modernist (talk) 21:14, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In browsing articles, I came upon one called Abstract figurative. I nominated it for speedy deletion as nonsense, which was denied. Thoughts? FigureArtist (talk) 04:41, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, the article has been added to AfD, but as a neologism, not nonsense.FigureArtist (talk) 04:52, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Concepts of figuration and abstraction

message: Does anyone know of the song "four minutes and thirty three seconds"?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.76.50 (talk) 23:27, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  4'33" 

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thread_title: File:Theo van Doesburg Counter-CompositionV (1924).jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Is abstract art an art movement? I understand an art movement from a historical sense, but I am unsure if abstract art is an actual art movement. Just asking as this is categorized into :Category:Art movements but i didnt notice anywhere in the article saying it is an art movement. Brad7777 (talk) 22:06, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you are right that "abstract art" is probably not an "art movement", except perhaps if art history is looked at over the very long-term encompassing centuries, and even then I don't think the entirety of "abstract art" would constitute one "art movement". But I am not troubled with somewhat inexact Categorization as it could be helpful to a reader just perusing general groupings of types of art in :Category:Art movements. Bus stop (talk) 12:16, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Art movement 

message: It is not my intention to enter the ongoing debate about who created the first abstract painting. The addition of the list of works created between 1909 and 1913 (just posted in the article) is meant only to give examples of abstract paintings that were produced at the time; something previously absent from the article. Works by Picabia, Kandinsky, Kupka, R. Delaunay, Survage and Mondrian are included in the list. These were arguably the most important figures involved with the production of abstract art during the crucial years mentioned. Coldcreation (talk) 10:23, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples of Abstract Art  

message: In this article, Abstract Art (and many other Wikipedia articles where it appears), the caption for Malevich's Black Square indicated the date 1913. I've since corrected the date to 1915 (if this is indeed his first Black Square). I've also moved it down from the top of the article to the Russian avant-garde section, where it is better appreciated.
"The Black Square of Kazimir Malevich is one of the most famous creations of Russian art in the last century. The first Black Square was painted in 1915 to become the turning point in the development of Russian avant-garde. Black Square against white background became the symbol, the basic element in the system of the art of suprematism, the step into the new art. The artist himself created several variants of the Black Square. All four Squares painted by Malevich from 1915 to the early 1930s developed the same idea." [...] "The last Square, despite the author's note 1913 on the reverse, is believed to have been created in the late twenties or early thirties [...]" Source (Bold added)
"For an unrealized production of Pobeda nad solntsem in 1915, Malevich proposed a black square as a backdrop. At the exhibition 0.10, the Black Square (1915; Moscow, Tret’yakov Gal.), painted on a square canvas surrounded by a margin of white, was hung across the corner of the separate room where works by Malevich and his followers were displayed; it was announced as the essential Suprematist work." Source
Robert Delaunay's Le Premier Disque from 1912-1913 has replaced Black Square at the top of the page. Completed more than two years prior to Black Square by Malevich, Delaunay's work is considered by many art historians as one of the first important abstract paintings, along with works by Kandinsky, Picabia and others. Coldcreation (talk) 17:36, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malevich, Black Square, 1915 

message: It is included for a pertinent reason. To clarify..
What is the difference between Shapes and Forms?
• Shapes and forms are used to describe objects on paper and real life respectively.
• Shapes are in 2D while forms are in 3D.
• Shapes require height and width only while forms require depth as well to be described.
188.29.117.157 (talk) 19:48, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please refrain from deleting the word 'Shape' from the opening statements. 

message: On the Abstract expressionism talk page there is beginning a discussion of merging this page into that one.ElijahBosley (talk ☞)  18:54, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: What an atrocious idea...Modernist (talk) 19:51, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: screaming no. they're NOT the same. no no no Cramyourspam (talk) 21:39, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger with Abstract expressionism? 

message: As part of the cleanup of User:Neelix's redirects we found he created 69 different redirects to this one article. I strongly suspect many of them need to be re-targeted. deleted as nonsense terms, or are to genaric to target here, but rather then have the generalists at RfD wade through them I'd like to post them here for discussion.  If you think one or more should be deleted or adjusted please take action. Thanks  Legacypac (talk) 23:47, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect Audit 

message: The Rfd discussion for non-objectivist/non-objectivism and derivatives can be found at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 November 13#Nonobjectivistically. Si Trew (talk) 15:18, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: At RfD 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Abstract art. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100616062046/http://blogs.princeton.edu/wri152-3/rpower/archives/001951.html to http://blogs.princeton.edu/wri152-3/rpower/archives/001951.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120907020700/http://www.centrepompidou.fr:80/education/ressources/ens-futurisme2008/ENS-futurisme2008-10-orphisme.html to http://www.centrepompidou.fr/education/ressources/ens-futurisme2008/ENS-futurisme2008-10-orphisme.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131002185216/http://www.kmm.nl/collection-search.php?reload=1&characteristic_type=Painting&artist=Piet+Mondriaan+%281872+-+1944%29&van=0&tot=0&submit.x=51&submit.y=5 to http://www.kmm.nl/collection-search.php?reload=1&characteristic_type=Painting&artist=Piet+Mondriaan+%281872+-+1944%29&van=0&tot=0&submit.x=51&submit.y=5
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Abstract art. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I recently added this photo to the article, to illustrate the use of abstraction in antiquity. Another editor removed the photo, commenting "That's not abstract, it's an eye." 
Other comments? Looks abstract to my eye.....  TIA, Pete Tillman (talk) 13:01, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: No response or comments, so I'm putting it back in. --Pete Tillman (talk) 23:11, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source for using that image? It's not mentioned in the text as far as I can tell. Why would it be so close to the top of the page, only the third image? What's the significance and why that particular piece/style? The article mainly talks about abstraction in the recent sense while talking about some precedents. It appears to be cherry-picking to include that image without context, particularly in that position on the page -- the reader is lead to believe that it's an important work rather than a mere illustration of something that appears abstract in our sense. And per your last edit summary, you too are edit warring. freshacconci (✉) 03:34, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I too would like to see a reliable source that equates this pottery to abstract art. Until then, I would keep it out of the article. Coldcreation (talk) 06:15, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mimbres abstraction? 

message: Mark Rothko, Jackson Pollock all had a unique streak in their paintings and so had other abstract painters. Can we talk about this uniqueness as signature style in abstract art? 
Links under discussion: 
https://www.artexpertswebsite.com/artist/rothko/
https://www.moma.org/collection/works/78594
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/now-computer-can-differentiate-between-real-jackson-pollocks-and-fakes-180954300/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by SriSriChinmaya (talk • contribs) 04:37, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Signature Style in Abstract Art 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:08, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: "Non-figurative art explained" external link is... Steroids?! I was looking forward to that link because I'm trying to understand WHY various people say "Non-figurative" does not equal "abstract" (I have no idea on the subject personally, still trying to learn) BUT could not find any real explanation in Wikipedia (or Wikipédia or Spanish Wikipedia for that matter). Heck, life is though; please find someone qualified to patch it! 2605:B100:D16:838F:2D58:1FF5:D383:E6FE (talk)Alainr345  — Preceding undated comment added 17:58, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The steroids link has been removed. Wikipelli Talk 18:03, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The art of Wikipedia on steroids 

message: Why she is not mentioned in this topic as a pioneer of abstract art?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilma_af_Klint 82.81.35.210 (talk) 16:36, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Her name appears three times in the article, and one of her paintings is reproduced. Coldcreation (talk) 09:06, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hilma Af Klint 

message: User:Modernist, I'm strongly disagree with your the cleanup message and talk page assessment revert. I don't think that my cleanup message () is not a valid concern. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 13:30, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert 

message: I've reassessed to C-class, as the article in its current form is pretty chaotic and needs substantial cleanup (citation tag being just one of its issues). If there is anyone here willing to collaborate on cleaning up and rewriting content, please let me know. I'd be happy to coordinate a group effort. Some of the more pressing stuff:
* scope of the article, historically and geographically (currently, it is primarily focused on Western art and I just removed unsourced content on Islamic art; it might be a good idea to focus just on Europe for the purpose of this article as there is substantial risk of fundamentally misrepresenting the meaning of abstraction in East Asian Art and other non-Western cultures, not to mention it reinforces colonialist mentality of "center" and "periphery")
* methodological framework (here it would be helpful to think of a bigger narrative to approach the diversity of abstract vocabularies in European and American art, perhaps by loosely following and critiquing institutional frameworks including MoMA, Barr's 1936 Cubism and Abstract art exhibition and then 2012 Leah Dickerman's Inventing Abstraction, etc.)
* organization (this is closely related to the points above)
These are just some preliminary thoughts. I would love to continue the conversation with those interested in improving this important WP:WPVA article. Ppt91talk 19:29, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup and rewrite