Talk:Benito Mussolini

message: Shouldn't the image in this article's infobox be dated, as is the case with almost every other biography on Wikipedia? 147.147.205.222 (talk) 23:18, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The date is not known. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 19:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: Please decapitalize "Prime Minister" for not following MOS:JOBTITLE. 112.204.199.9 (talk) 11:11, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: It is used correctly, e.g.,  Hyphenation Expert (talk) 13:22, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2023 

message: There's been some back and forth over the lead image again, so I figured it couldn't hurt to open up a new discussion thread. This was last discussed a couple years ago (here) but no clear consensus was achieved. 
For reference, here are the two images that have recently been used:
Mussolini and Hitler 1940 (cropped)(c).jpg|Image 1
Mussolini biografia.jpg|Image 2
I'm not crazy about either of them, frankly, and have no strong opinion as to which is better. But I see that others do have opinions on the matter, so it would be good to try to establish a consensus if possible. Generalrelative (talk) 01:14, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion, 1 looks more neutral, 2 looks like a piece of propaganda. ალექსანდროს (talk) 06:07, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Image 1 has an annoying background, which ruins the image; that’s the simple reason I reverted it. Articles on high-profile individuals are never allowed to have images with bad backgrounds. Trakking (talk) 08:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: There is nothing propagandistic about the second image, which looks like any old black-and-white photo. It would have been ”propaganda” if he was wearing a crown, standing under a banner reading «our noble Caesar». If anything, the first image is more propagandistic since it portrays him as some kind of high-ranking military commander. In reality, both Mussolini and Hitler were only corporals—one of the lowest military ranks. Their primary talent was oratorical demagoguery. Trakking (talk) 10:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

text: I vote for Image 1.  The second image has his profile partly shrouded by shadow.Emiya1980 (talk) 22:56, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Emiya1980 (talk) 23:05, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

text: voting for image 2 as it looks better as portrait. Shadow4dark (talk) 10:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Any thoughts on this issue?Emiya1980 (talk) 08:45, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The second is a classic photo of Mussolini as he wanted to be seen (grim look, jaw out: this pose has been the subject of countless satirical drawings abroad), while the first shows him as he actually was. Since Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral, I say number one (although there are better photos around). Alex2006 (talk) 12:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead image again 

message: Which of the following images should serve as the infobox picture for Benito Mussolini?
Mussolini biografia.jpg|A (Current Image)
Benito Mussolini 1930 (cropped)(b).png|B
Benito Mussolini 1930 (alt).jpg|B2
Mussolini and Hitler 1940 (cropped)(d).jpg|C 
Benito mussolini (cropped).jpg|D
Historical dictators - Mussolini.jpg|E
Mussolini mezzobusto.jpg|F
 Emiya1980 (talk) 02:15, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Emiya1980 (talk) 06:05, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

text: The current image is fine; B is alright as well. C and D have bad backgrounds. E is taken from an awkward angle. Trakking (talk) 02:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Prefer, D since it's in color, is sensibly illustrative and not contrived or weird like E. After that, probably A, C, B, E in decreasing order. PS: A background that doesn't happen to be completely blank is not "bad". There is no image policy or guidelines basis for such a mis-assessment. Thousands and thousands of our bio articles have photos that are "natural" shots with real-life background elements in them instead of being artificially posed ones with blank or "haloing" background screens. Not only is this not faulty, an argument can be made that the natural ones are preferable.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:03, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Curbon7 You're free to provide an alternative.Emiya1980 (talk) 06:32, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The Library of Congress has a large collection of negatives of Mussolini here. I'm sure other such repositories have similar. Curbon7 (talk) 06:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Upload some to Wikimedia Commons then.Emiya1980 (talk) 20:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You're the RfC starter, you should have been better prepared for such a response when all the presented options are so lacking. Curbon7 (talk) 20:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: That's your opinion.Emiya1980 (talk) 21:01, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

text: If D is a recolor (which it almost certainly is, the original seems to have been printed on Agfacolor by Henri Roger-Viollet in 1940 (possible original)), the question becomes if it is a sufficiently neutral recolor, which is a frequent issue with colorizations of Axis figures of this era. Curbon7 (talk) 21:35, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Note I have found a better quality and higher resolution version of B (). I think it is quite an improvement and am leaning towards it. Curbon7 (talk) 05:42, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:   Which image do you think should serve as the infobox picture for the Mussolini article?Emiya1980 (talk) 21:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Emiya1980 (talk) 04:35, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Emiya1980 (talk) 04:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @,, and  Which image should serve as the infobox picture for Benito Mussolini?
*A since the alternatives are not a real improvement to the status quo. Nemov (talk) 01:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

text: A, per reasons stated above and no good reason to change. Traumnovelle (talk) 03:19, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: MaximusEditor The Italian wikipedia uses F.Emiya1980 (talk) 07:51, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the clarifying comment, I will cast a vote towards F.  I think consistency across the board has its advantages. MaximusEditor (talk) 22:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Note the Italian Wikipedia using this one https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mussolini_mezzobusto.jpg Shadow4dark (talk) 04:46, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Shadow4dark Image added.Emiya1980 (talk) 05:02, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  voting for F as the others are no improvement for the current image. Shadow4dark (talk) 05:04, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Adding even more options just makes this a bigger mess for the closer. Nemov (talk) 13:12, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

text: D is best for an idea of what Italians were forced to see every day . Rjensen (talk) 05:45, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @,, ,  &  Which of the images listed above should serve as the infobox picture for Benito Mussolini?Emiya1980 (talk) 05:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  See above question.Emiya1980 (talk) 05:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

text: *C - for the key reason that, even though it was taken with Hitler in an official capacity, it is arguably among these photos the least controlled and manipulated one, i.e. the one that does not fully succeed in projecting a propaganda message. A simple visual reproduction of propaganda would contravene NPOV and none of the images manage to avoid this as they are sourced from either Fascist or Nazi official sources. Ideally a non-propagandistic photo should be found but that seems unlikely. If not C, then I would favour F (the pose corresponds to a school photo of 14-year-old Mussolini who was not a fascist yetA. Antola Swan, Photographing Mussolini, London 2020, pp. 219–224.). A and D are the worst offenders, both project an image of a visionary statesman and D is from the Nazi press targeting occupied EuropeSee Antola Swan 2020, p. 212–213, for an interpretation of A, and otherwise the updated photo descriptions for their origin and for the bombastic propaganda caption accompanying D.. The "jawsplaying" and the effect of emerging from a dark background in A is standard Mussolini visual self-promotionAntola Swan, p. 260.. VampaVampa (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox Picture