Talk:Civic Platform

message: How is PO a "liberal conservative" party? In my mind, liberal conservatism is the result of either 1) a conservative party that adopts some liberal policies to appeal more to voters in the centre (like the Moderate Party in Sweden; their new leader talks a lot about "exclusion" and wants tax cuts to favour low- and middle-income earners) or 2) a liberal party that adopts some conservative policies to appeal more to voters on the right (like the Liberal Party in Australia; I refer especially to their immigration policy).
In my mind, PO is a liberal party (or free market liberal if you want to be more precise). Their policies and general ideology seems to me to be thoroughly liberal, with the emphasis on freedom for the individual that goes with it. Tamino 12:59, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree with the namechange - "Citizens platform" has been a permanent eyesore imho. In fact, since they translate their own name as "Civic", I think I'll do a redirect right away. Deuar 13:32, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Or maybe I won't - the name is already taken by a redirect, it appears. I'll try to implement the procedure... Deuar 13:39, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I suggest to incorporate into the article their own description. They definedthemselves as "synthesis of liberal, conservative and Christian democracy". Which I believe is a very accurate description. Polish everyday politics brings less and less proofs on their alleged liberalism.Adamfularz (talk) 15:28, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

text: The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 08:33, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ideology

message: Is "Platforma Obywatelska" definate or indefinate in Polish? I have always heard PO referred to as "Civic Platform" (indefinate), rather than "The Civic Platform". Tamino 20:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a bit of a hard question, actually. In Polish definate or indefinate are not so strictly defined as in english -- there's no counterparts for "the" and "a". Instead variable word endings are used. When a noun is used in a sentence, you can tell from the surrounding endings and/or the context whether it is being used as a definate or indefinate form, but when the noun is just by itself it's not clear. I'm trying to think what the convention is in articles about parties in english speaking countries, and I think it varies. Also, somehow I have a gut feeling that putting "the" in front of "Civic platform" is not right. Just "Civic platform" in the article title seems to better convey the feeling of the name, if you like. The name in polish doesn't particularly convey the notion that it's the only platform for civic expression. But that's just a vague impression I have. Deuar 21:33, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I dunno - I don't think 'civic' refers particularly to a city or town, although it sometimes can. For example "civic duties", "civic expression" are not at all related to towns, but to being a `good citizen'. "Civil" on the other hand seems too vague, like "Publiczny" (public), "Urzedowy" (public/official), "Cywilny" (civillian) or "Cywilizowany" (civilized) in Polish. Deuar 20:16, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Civic Platform" or "The Civic Platform"? 

message: The issue of classifying PO has been discussed above. Although their policy platform is strongly influenced by free-market liberalism, they describe themselves on their website as "a synthesis of Liberal, Conservative and Christian-Democratic beliefs". Thus "liberal conservative" is more appropriate than liberal. They are certainly similar to other liberal conservative parties, for example the Moderate Party of Sweden. Tamino 18:47, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The current article only states their economically liberal policies - it has no mention of their Christian conservative views. It should mention why they are termed liberal conservative. Joffeloff 22:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liberal conservative, not liberal 

message: Christian Democrat International no longer exists, because it was renamed in 2001 to Centrist Democrat International. There are no informations about Civic Platform affiliation to any of these organizations on the Internet, at least I haven't found any. If anyone can confirm that they are member party of CDI (or any other political international) and provide some reference, do it. Otherwise, information about their international affiliation will be deleted. Ammon86 14:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Information deleted. Ammon86 18:24, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Civic Platform is a member of the European People's Party, the main Christian Democratic and conservative grouping in the European Parliament.84.26.1.92 07:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, it is already written in the article!!! --Checco 11:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was asking about Centrist Democrats International, not the European People's Party. Perhaps I have wrong sources, but on the CDI website  Civic Platform is not mentioned. Ammon86 16:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right and we should also correct the article on Centrist Democrat International right now. --Checco 17:31, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: International affiliation

message: PO's dominance is also a reflection of right-wing weakness and divisions, with PiS suffering a splinter in Autumn 2010.
As far as PO is rather center party than right-wing right now - is that sentence suggesting that PiS is more right wing than PO? Which way? This is nonsense. W.J.M. (talk) 12:13, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Right-wing weakness..? 

message: The last paragraph of the information about the party and the last two sentences of ideology strike me as biased against them and not really neutral.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.235.38.194 (talk) 17:49, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed (probably all) possibly biased - and certainly unsourced - statements, along with your neutrality tag. //Halibutt 22:34, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Civic Platform. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101220053333/http://www.wbj.pl/blog/The_business_of_politics/post-254-civic-platform-almighty.htm to http://www.wbj.pl/blog/The_business_of_politics/post-254-civic-platform-almighty.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110604060617/http://www.salon.eu.sk/article.php?article=1005-a-leading-force to http://www.salon.eu.sk/article.php?article=1005-a-leading-force
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:09, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Civic Platform. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://archive.is/20140824100453/http://pe2014.pkw.gov.pl/pl/ to http://pe2014.pkw.gov.pl/pl/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:18, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Would like to add this info - ok?
* Reuters: Poland's euroskeptic government falling further behind with urban voters OCTOBER 22, 2018
--0e7s (talk) 19:47, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regional assemblies 2018 PO 

message: Regional assemblies 2018 News:
TVP: PiS triumphs in Polish local elections 21.10.2018
* An exit poll indicates that Poland’s conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party gained the most votes in Sunday’s local government elections, public broadcaster TVP reported.
** In Poland’s most important electoral test since Law and Justice came to power in the parliamentary elections of late 2015, the party on Sunday gained 32.3 percent of the vote in elections to regional assemblies, according to an exit poll.
** The Civic Coalition, an alliance between the Civic Platform (PO) and Nowoczesna (Modern) parties, came second with 24.7 percent of the regional assemblies vote, the poll found.
** The Polish People's Party (PSL), which is strong in rural areas, came third on 16.6 percent, according to the survey by pollster Ipsos.
** Turnout at 5pm on Sunday stood at 41.65 percent, officials said.
I would like to add this info to the section Regional assemblies 2018 - ok? --0e7s (talk) 19:42, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elections - Regional assemblies 2018 

message: From the article: "Civic Platform combines ordoliberal stances on the economy with social conservative stances on social and ethical issues, including opposition to abortion, same-sex marriage, soft drug decriminalisation, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research, removal of crosses and other religious symbols in schools and public places, and partially to wide availability of in vitro fertilisation. The party also wants to criminalise gambling and supports religious education in schools and civil unions. Other socially conservative stances of the party include voting to ban designer drugs and amending the penal code to introduce mandatory chemical castration of paedophiles. However, it is somewhat less strident on social issues than Law and Justice. "
How might this possibly be described as social liberalism? Oddeivind (talk) 20:15, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. It is absurd to describe it as socially liberal and I removed that. I'm even inclined to believe it was vandalism.2A02:2F01:5EFF:FFFF:0:0:6465:4118 (talk) 19:07, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that the mentioning of social liberalism may be related to Civic Platform's big-tent center to center-right nature. There's probably a socially liberal faction within the party. Perhaps "social liberalism" should be removed from the infobox, as was already done, but I think it still should be mentioned somewhere in the body of the article that not all of the party is socially conservative -Ezhao02 (talk) 20:02, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

text: The infobox lists "Liberal conservatism" and "Liberalism". Not sure how accurate that is. The "Ideology" section is a complete mess; it reads "[...] Civic Platform has been described as liberal-conservative,[14][15][16][17][18][19] conservative-liberal,[20][21][22][23][24] liberal,[25][26][27] Christian-democratic,[28] conservative,[29] neoliberal,[29] social-liberal[30] and pro-European.[31]" The article is in such a state, that it's very difficult for readers to understand what kind of a party this is, and what it actually stands for. 2A02:2F01:5DFF:FFFF:0:0:6465:494A (talk) 00:17, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Social liberalism? 

message: Hi, there's been some recent disagreement over what ideologies should be listed in the infobox. I believe that the broad terms of "conservatism" and "liberalism" should be listed, even though other ideologies (e.g., Christian democracy, liberal conservatism, conservative liberalism, social liberalism) are accurate for describing all of PO or factions within it. My argument in favor of the terms "conservatism" and "liberalism" is that since the infobox is intended to be a concise summary of the article content, the broader terms should be used, since they include the other accurate ideologies. For example, Christian democracy falls under the umbrella of conservatism, and social liberalism falls under the umbrella of liberalism. Therefore, I think that although other accurate ideologies should be included in the article body (as they are under #Ideology), the infobox should only retain "liberalism" and "conservatism" (and possibly "pro-Europeanism", but that one would warrant a separate discussion). Could some other editors provide their opinions on this? Thanks, Ezhao02 (talk) 14:12, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The Infobox should include liberal conservatism – it is the most well-referenced ideology in the article body, and the second most referenced, conservative liberalism, is essentially redundant in the Infoxbox due to the overlapping nature of both ideologies. I would say just list liberal conservatism, or conservative liberalism, either or. I'm not keen on listing pro-Europeanism in the Infobox for any political party article, but if that's to be listed, that should be the second entry in the ideology field. None more is needed. the rest can be listed (with references) in the body of the article text.--Autospark (talk) 15:50, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for your comments. I'd be willing to accept that. If we take that route, I'd prefer "liberal conservatism" over "conservative liberalism", since it's better cited. However, the reason I wanted to include "liberalism" was because of some more social-liberal elements within PO, like the 2020 presidential candidate Rafał Trzaskowski. -Ezhao02 (talk) 13:13, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. I approve.--Autospark (talk) 22:39, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry, I'm not 100% sure what you mean. Do you approve of what's currently on the page (conservatism and liberalism), putting both "liberal conservatism" and "liberalism", or something else? Thanks, Ezhao02 (talk) 04:02, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  in favour of putting both "liberal conservatism" and "liberalism". Sorry for the ambiguity!—Autospark (talk) 10:25, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:   No worries! I'll change it now to list both "liberal conservatism" and "liberalism". Ezhao02 test (talk) 16:49, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

text: Vacant0 thanks for those source restorations. I would still prefer the infobox to list just “Liberal conservatism” and “Liberalism”.—Autospark (talk) 16:59, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, I am restoring that in the infobox. Cheers, Vacant0 (talk) 17:05, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox ideology 

message: I think we should add, "Pro-Europeanism" into the ideology section. 84.149.67.232 (talk) 17:06, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not an ideology. Vacant0 (talk) 09:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The party stance on the EU 

message: I believe that the political position in infobox should be changed to simple "centre" rather than "centre to centre-right". Because the PO is described as a centre-left party.
Ideology and political position should be applied differently from country to country. The Polish political environment is closer to South Korea than to Germany or France. In South Korea or United States. Poland, South Korea, and the United States have something in common that there are no social democratic parties among the two major parties, only conservative and liberal parties. South Korea's DPK is left-liberal by South Korean standards, but policy will be more socially conservative than PO. In Germany, where the political environment is liberal, green politics is more of a centrist. In Poland, where the political environment is conservative, liberal-conservatism is more of a centrist. Poles usually recognize PiS as political centre-right, but do not recognize PO as political centre-right. (Of course I don't think PiS is a centre-right.) Mureungdowon (talk) 22:50, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: In infobox, "Liberal conservatism" should still be maintained. However, the political position should be changed to "Centre". Mureungdowon (talk) 22:52, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

text: Sources for "centre-left" without doubt do exist, though what matters whether it is due enough for it to amend the political position to only state "centre" instead of "centre to centre-right". If you have reliable third-party sources that confirm this shift to the centre, provide them here. Also, please abstain from original research and comparing parties to South Korea or whatever other country as this discussion is about a political party in Poland. Again, if you have sources that backs your claims, present them here. Vacant0 (talk) 22:55, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Some sources have described PO as having shifted from the centre-right to the centre. This means that they were centre-right in the past, but are now centre (not centre-right). Mureungdowon (talk) 00:20, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

text: I do not think it is appropriate for due to refer to the PO's political position as "centre-right". Because POs are overwhelmingly referred to as centrist rather than center-right or center-left. I just googled: "center-right Civic Platform"(172); "centrist Civic Platform"(784) Of course, I value other policies more than Wikipedia's due policy, but because Vacant0 mentioned this policy, I argued back with the due policy. Mureungdowon (talk) 00:31, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I oppose any description of the PO as "centre-left"; it is primarily a centre-right, economically liberal party. Of course it has cooperated in recent years with parties to its left, e.g. the European Coalition and Civic Coalition, but there are plenty of examples of other centre-right parties doing so. Any other claims are WP:OR and/or certain editors' own unsupported opinions.--Autospark (talk) 16:09, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that in Poland there is currently no large centre-left political party and that the main opposition party to the governing right-wing PiS party is PO may suggest that the latter is centre-left. It is clearly not the case. PO is a quite standard centre-right political party and, among EPP members, it is quite conservative. The nature of a political party is not changed by its allies and it is very important not to adapt political positions to the different contexts, but to keep international standards: some countries may have more parties with a similar political position than others. Please excuse me for my contorted English. --Checco (talk) 21:31, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Autospark and Checco. There is, in fact, a little amount of sources that describe PO as "centre-left" as compared to "centre" and "centre-right". Mureungdowon did prove that there is one source (from 2016) that says that PO shifted from the centre-right to the centre, though this view does seem to be in the minority. I gave a quick look at Google Scholar and it seems like both centre and centre-right are still used up till this day, so keeping the current status quo would be correct. Vacant0 (talk) 21:56, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

text: The criteria for 'international standards' are unclear. I think we should consider both 'international standards' and 'national standards'. Mureungdowon (talk) 23:53, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: While I have few doubts on the centre-right positionment of PO, I see the point. It would be better to remove the "political position" parameter from political party infoboxes. Obviously, it is not something we can decide here, but it would really be the smartest thing to do. --Checco (talk) 22:24, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Centre to centre-right 

message: After the PiS government passed the controversial "Lex Tusk" law, Civic platform may field a different candidate in this year's election. 2A02:3030:805:B498:1:0:4120:CB3D (talk) 21:28, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tusk may not be the candidate for PM 

message: The party is definitely centre-right, similar to Fine Gael or Venstre. 2A02:3030:805:EAA8:1:0:6DD0:D98E (talk) 14:36, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: And centre-right is already in the article and the infobox. Please create an account and stop removing the centrism claim that is strongly backed up by reliable sources. Vacant0 (talk) 18:39, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Centre-right 

message: PO is similar to the greek ND, as it ranges from light social conservatism to progressivism, is slightly nationalist, favors the free market, wants to limit immigration, is in the EPP group, is pro-european and wants more funds from EU. Make the Position "Centre-right to right-wing". 2.247.240.83 (talk) 09:14, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @2.247.240.83 Relying on comparison to one party to establish the ideology of another is very unreliable. You can find many parties in EPP on even RE like irish FF, german FW or polish PL2050, labeled on wiki as centrist, which are more right-wing than PO. skout3 (talk) 01:08, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

text: This is an interesting idea - if this is an accurate description to ND, then this would be a good fit for PO. Hopefully there are sources out there who do compare PO to other parties and call it right-wing. Brat Forelli (talk) 12:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: here: https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/socialist-mep-accuses-tusk-of-turning-into-trump/ 62.169.197.95 (talk) 17:04, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Centre-right to right-wing like ND 

message: Tge party Leader Tusk has recently accused Kaczyński of being gay and he joked about it publicly.
https://www.tysol.pl/a108103-skandaliczne-slowa-tuska-w-ustroniu-oburzenie-lewicowych-aktywistow 2A02:8108:1640:5282:588B:34C3:D6D:B6A1 (talk) 15:08, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent anti-LGBT rhetoric  

message: add logo = Logotyp_platformy.png Arasakacorp (talk) 15:49, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Elli (talk | contribs) 00:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 October 2023 

message: 2023 parliamentary elections: Coalition Octilllion (talk) 17:25, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me!  16:54, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 November 2023 

message: add this logo please. Civic Platform logo.xcf HoopaRoopa (talk) 01:56, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: No logo given, not justification for its addition. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 12:23, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 December 2023 

message: 41 senators, law and justice independents are listed with the party. I don't see why PO ones wouldn't be Octilllion (talk) 18:22, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, . Brat Forelli🦊 18:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 February 2024