Talk:Áo dài

message: This article is full of inaccuracies that it's getting useless. DHN 21:35, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Early text

message: Is it in law required to wear the Áo dài in high schools? Is that inconvenient and hot to wear the dress? Some Vietnamese friends said so said they do not like to wear them.Comfortpracticalclothingnl 12:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, It's very uncomfortable when you wear the Áo dài cuz it's hot in summer; easy to get dirty in raining season, and a lot of inconvenients else. There is no law which require student to wear them but school rules itseft. Some school hasn't required female students to wear the Áo dài, but most of school force female students to wear the áo dài as uniform and "to made them (female students) more feminine".--Xvn (talk) 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It unusual to see anyone wear the áo dài in the North, except maybe for sales clerks at a high-end shop. Some high school students in Saigon told me they wore it once a week. Each school has its own uniform and rules. Kauffner (talk) 05:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

text: The north Vietnam's weather is (very) cold but the áo dài is a thin one. If you worn only áo dài and stepped out in winter and autumn you'll be dead in seven steps. But in north Vietnam, people still wear the áo dài on special occasions such as formal ceremonies, Tết holidays.. Of course, with a proper warming method. .--Xvn (talk) 17:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: School uniform

message: Why were all mentions of the male versions, áo the and áo gấm, removed from the article without discussion? Please do not do something like that again. Badagnani (talk) 18:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I put áo gấm back in. After talking to several Vietnamese, I gather that the áo the is strictly historical at this point. The phrase "the national costume of the Vietnamese people" was in the article before I started editing. Anyway, now it is, "a Vietnamese national costume." The earlier version called the ao dai, "one out of many traditional Vietnamese costumes worn nowadays." I took this out because I thought it made Vietnam sound like some sort of fashion museum. Kauffner (talk) 01:00, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do not remove without discussion 

message: The Vietnamese version of this article gives 襖長 as the chữ nôm for áo dài. There is a detailed discussion here. Pure Vietnamese or not, dài is a very common word and must have had a chữ nôm spelling. Kauffner (talk) 09:37, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, dài does have a Nom character, which is 𨱽.  長 is read as "trường".  The characters were added at vi.wiki by an anonymous editor and was protested by various other editors for their irrelevance; nobody had looked at their correctness.  I've added a citation needed tag for that and they will be removed soon if no sources are provided. DHN (talk) 15:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: 袄 is just a simplified version of 襖, so I don't quite understand the problem. Based on the Nôm Foundation dictionary, the "áo" in  áo dài must be one or the other. If it is a word of Chinese origin, surely the Chinese character is relevant. Kauffner (talk) 19:39, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I only have problem with the "dai" part.  Ao seems fine to me. DHN (talk) 19:41, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Might the proper chu nom character be found here? Badagnani (talk) 17:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Word Origin, chữ nôm 

message: This áo dài (:Image:Áo dài, Hồ Gươm 2.jpg) isn't for school (the type of fabrics isn't suitable, it has alot of designs, while áo dài for school should be made of plain white fabric).--Xvn (talk) 17:03, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen students in áo dàis using that type of fabric, but I looked closer and I noticed that she doesn't have a tag. Also, she is displaying a ring, so she's apparently getting married or engaged. So yes, definately not a student. Kauffner (talk) 18:22, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

text: And Áo dài isn't only for women. In formal ceremonies (especially đám giỗ, đám cưới), family male members can also wear it.--Xvn (talk) 15:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean an áo gấm? That's in the article. (Now back in the lead.) Kauffner (talk) 02:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks. I call my brother's "áo gấm" "áo dài".--Xvn (talk) 03:25, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Áo dài as high school uniform 

message: There a poem about the áo dài: "áo dài đôi cánh tiên bay", which I'd like to put in the "Popular Culture" section if someone write it up correctly. Kauffner (talk) 02:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As might be expected for a national costume, the áo dài is extensively referenced in Vietnamese literature and music, most notably in the poem Áo lụa Hà Đông by Nguyên Sa, later made into a song and the inspiration for a film with the same name. DHN (talk) 01:24, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Poem

message: I looked up "aodai" in various dictionaries and noticed that it has gained recognition as a full-fledged English-language word. It's in both the Oxford English Dictionary and in the American Heritage Dictionary. I suggest we move the page to "Aodai" (the Merriam-Webster spelling). Kauffner (talk) 16:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what to make out of the Google hit totals. I looked up some of the hits for "áo dài" and I found that for the most part the page itself doesn't actually use the diacriticals. Maybe the engine automatically checks for spelling variations. aodai and "ao dai" both gives you about 600,000 hits, which seems very odd as well. Of course, if the engine is checking for variations, it is perhaps not surprising that the number of hits would be similar. In any case, I think there are two reasons to drop the space: 1) "Aodai" is the spelling in Merriam-Webster, which is the standard for American English spelling. 2) The space is copied from Vietnamese and Vietnamese puts a space in just because the writing system puts a space between every syllable. This type of space is routinely dropped when anglicizing, Hà Nội becomes "Hanoi," Sài Gòn becomes Saigon, etc. Kauffner (talk) 15:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  In my opinion, Ao Dai as two words is better, but Ao-dai is good too. Kauffner as quoted by you "the writing system doesn't put a space between every syllable." I could be wrong, but from my understanding, Vietnamese words do not contain any syllables. Saigon is said "linguistically/phonetically" as two words. From a Vietnamese standpoint, "Sai", and "Gon", the meanings of these "words" are harder for Vietnamese people to define, as opposed to "Ao", and "Dai" which are commonly used in every day language. From an English viewpoint- "Aodai" cannot be said as a word with two syllables (phonetically) in English, as opposed to "Hanoi" or "Saigon" which can be treated/pronounced as a one word in English with two syllables. A part of writing the words together was it make it "look" more "right" or easier to read, but "aodai" doesn't look quite right as one word.twinqletwinqle (talk) 08:39, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Aodai" was not a proper page move; "ao dai" hugely outnumbers it in usage. Please move it back, or move to "ao dai." Badagnani (talk) 01:12, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Diacriticals, page move

message: I have to admit that the numerous photos of the girls are highly appealing and charming, but do we need that many to illustrate the áo dài? Sjschen (talk) 20:56, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Aside from the girl in white on the bottom left in front of the lake, the other pictures are all educational and used to illustrate major design points and whatnot. I think she is a popular image, but I will wait for other people have to say. Kauffner (talk) 04:15, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: At least one photo of a male áo dài should be included. Badagnani (talk) 04:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Males are not as photogenic and thus doing this might be a bit harder ;) Sjschen (talk) 19:32, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

text: One image was deleted for copyright vio, so I think the text/image ratio is more balanced now. There used to be picture of George Bush in an ao gam on top. It's quite unusual for Vietnamese men to wear one nowadays. Kauffner (talk) 02:02, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why doesn't ao gam or áo gấm redirect anywhere? Badagnani (talk) 02:54, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I think I found a picture we can use.  And I also think people overemphasize the men not wearing it so much these days anymore :P it's true it's mostly worn by a select few for festivals and weddings, but Vietnam has like billions of festivals going on all the time, it doesn't seem so uncommon for me Dearlieusuck (talk) 13:35, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: I find it really interesting. However I am missing some things here. What exactly are all the different parts of an ao dai? There is a picture, but there should be more of an explanation. Also what is that headgear that some sometimes wear, see this image here  and how does it fit into the ensemble? Please add the info into the article and don't just leave it here on the talk page. Gryffindor (talk) 09:34, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In literature, they often say that an ao dai is worn with a nón lá (pointed leaf hat). But from what I have seen, this a style local to Huế (a city central region). Otherwise, the nón lá is a hat. As for the diagram, eo is "waist"; ống tay is "sleeve"; tà sau is "back flap"; tà trước is "front flap"; khuy cổ is "collar button"; đường may is "seam"; nút is a button; móc is little steel hook that they use instead of a button; and thân is "body". Kauffner (talk) 04:25, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Things missing

message: I've never seen the word "áo dài" used in Vietnamese for anything else besides the specific garment described in this article.  DHN (talk) 21:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: The word is spelled as "ao dai" (no diacriticals) in two different dictionaries. I don't any rationale for either capitalizing or using diacritics. Kauffner (talk) 11:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I think the fact that it's an English word means it can be spelled without the diacritics.  As for the spacing, it seems to go either way. —Soap— 12:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling

message: The only place in this article where it's one word is the title at the beginning.  Can it be changed to two words there for consistency? Kirs10 (talk) 04:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ao dai or aodai

message: The See Also section mentions qipao. What is the relation between the two except for being asian dresses. The text doesn't mention anything and the qipao article only mentions the ao dai as beeing similar to the qipao without any further information. To me they even don't look similar, especially considering the pantaloons, the hat and the wavy look. Please expand on the relation between ao dai and qipao. 78.52.228.98 (talk) 11:25, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Both dresses feature split-sided tunics, but that's superficial. The traditional versions were nothing exciting to look at. But they were both modernized in the 1920s and 1930s in a way that identified sexuality with nationalism. There are a lot of parallels between the Vietnamese nationalists and those of the KMT. I figure someone at Tự Lực văn đoàn had a brainstorm along the lines of, "We need a qipao for Vietnam!" So the editors found Le Mur and starting promoting his designs. However, I haven't actually seen it explained that way in any source. Kauffner (talk) 12:04, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why See also: Qipao? 

message: Áo is Vietnamese word in purity. It has nothing to do with 襖 in Chinese.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilson20072000 (talk • contribs) 06:34, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The early examples by Le Quy Don and others were obviously not written in Latin script. What character do you think was used? It must have been a Chinese character with the Vietnamese reading of áo. Here is list of the possibilities. I assume áo is short for quần áo (clothing). I don't see a reading that would suggest "purity." Kauffner (talk) 10:14, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh please, there is a huge percentage of vocabulary the Vietnamese stole because their barbaric tribes don't have any culture.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:16B8:2866:9C00:4594:5E88:13ED:C3EB (talk) 18:51, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The word Ao derived from Middle Chinese? I don't think so 

message: Can we please have discussion here rather than edit war? In ictu oculi (talk) 01:00, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Photos

message: Up through the 1970's the satin trousers were always either white or black,
the photos I see here have colored trousers,
when did this occur?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.78.18.212 (talk) 21:44, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colored trousers? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article is supposed to be about the Ao Dai, but instead, there is a lot of clutter about the áo giao lĩnh, and history about what Vietnamese people wore before the Ao Dai? That is not what the article is about. 
The picture of áo giao lĩnh should be removed.
The gallery of Vietnamese garments throughout the centuries is NOT necessary. 
Information about the áo giao lĩnh should be moved to another article, or a new article about "the history of Vietnamese clothing" should be created.
Doublestuff (talk) 01:30, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lots of unnecessary information should be removed 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: User Milktaco is a confirmed sockpuppet of sockmaster Rajmaan and was blocked since 2018. It is not about debate but should be to removed forever.
Trương guy (talk) 07:16, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it should be noted that his user page goes to User:Dividing, though. When referring to Milktaco, please instead use User talk:Milktaco, since that is where the sock tag is.
There has been an ongoing conversation about whether or not male high-school students should wear ‘ao dai’ at Monday’s ceremony. Vietnamese Merited Artist Kim Xuan expressed her wish for male high-school students to wear ‘ao dai,’ at an event celebrating the meaning and beauty of the Vietnamese traditional costume on November 2nd, 2020. Her comment was received with both support and criticisms, yet the criticisms were flooded with gender discrimination against female students and double standards. This event has unveiled the inherent prejudicial norms against not only Vietnamese female high-school students but also Vietnamese women in general. I believe making readers aware of this conversation will allow for a deeper understanding of how gender norms within traditional costumes create challenges for women, which will contribute to the dismantle of these ingrained beliefs. Interdependentfeminist (talk) 17:09, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rajmaan = Milktaco 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: The are three ways to write áo in Nôm and three ways to write dài. Why 襖𨱾 as opposed to 袄曳? No source is given. I checked several Nôm dictionaries and none of them have an entry for áo dài. It's a modern word, so I wouldn't expect them to have one. We need to stop pulling nonsense out of the air. 5440orSleep (talk) 16:52, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Han Nom 

message: Currently there's an image in the gallery section with the following caption: "A girl wearing ao dai and taking lotus, in Ha Noi, 2016". What does "taking lotus" mean? Banedon (talk) 09:36, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does "taking lotus" mean? 

message: @Otomo Ajah Please do not delete my useful edits. I'm still very calm, it's best not to let me get angry. Thanks. 27.3.1.125 (talk) 03:44, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dear Otomo Ajah 

message: Hmm, we can see no Chữ Nôm text in this paragraph. So, can we remove the tag "Contains special characters|Nom"? Nguyengiabach1201 (talk) 11:08, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Chữ Nôm'' text