Talk:Yadav/Archive 1

message: The article makes reference to research showing Yadavs and Jews are connected. Is this backed up by any scholarly research? I see the one link that's in the article, but the writing makes me somewhat skeptical. Has any evidence been published in a scholarly journal? If not, and if it's just this one person's website claiming there's a connection, I'd suggest taking it out. There's a long history of Jewish communities in India, of course, but they're much better documented. Acarvin Thursday 15 December 2005 14:28 UTC
Dear user
Article does not talk about jewish settlers in india.Rather it talks about jews origin through Yadavas.I don't have any idea whether it has been published in an scholarly magazine or not but it does contain a good work of research which is appreciable and is based on known facts no wild guesses. 
:Dear editor 
:Gene.D.Matlock is a renowned researcher and has done many research works.You can go through his works and try to find out yourself about his credentials.http://viewzone.com/
Mr Matlock like many other interpreters misinterprates Abraham to be a brahman.No,infact Abraham's earlier name was Abhiru and the word abraham seems to be derived from Abhiram(Abhira in Sanskrit).Moslems refers to him as Ibrahim.Maybe Brahmin too is derived from it.If Historians could prove this it will just twist the present notion of Abhira being born through Brahmin to Brahmin being born through Abhir,and this is highly likely for there are references of Abhira living in india perhaps even before arrival of aryans and if statement of Bhagwad Gita is to be believed that Krishna in past incarnation has given knowledge to manu(the first man on earth )after Noah flood ,It is likely that tribe of Krishna had survived this flood preserving all the ancient knowledge.Holywarrior 12:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yadavs and Jews?

message: I am putting up the comments of noted scholars who has found connection between abhiri and hebrew.
"Since the Jews i.e. the Yedu tribes of Lord Krishna left the Dwarka region, the original Sanskrit that they spoke during Lord Krishna's time has undergone considerable change of pronunciation and admixture of words, so what was Sanskrit 5,742 years ago is now Hebrew." (World Vedic Heritage; by P. N. Oak; p. 530.)
For detailed reference plz. see work by Gene. D .Matlock supported by the arguments of several other noted scholars like Godfrey Higgins and Yadav Singh(author of Yadava Through Ages}. 
Wmnnzzr 16:26, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Look above for your answers ,Click on the link provided to find references,and names of linguists,participate in the debate directly,(you will find that privilege too extended by Mr Matlock),if you consider yourself competent enough.I wish you good luck in your india-nepal related edit adventure.Assume good faith,you need not criticise anybody's religious affiliations it is considered Attack.Thanx.Holywarrior 11:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abhiri and Hebrew 

message: I think Krishna was among indo scythian (Ahir,Abhir or Aver)who overthrew Kamsa and the story about being swapped with a girl child when Yasoda was asleep and Kamsa trying to kill that and all the divine play are mere subterfuge implanted by brahmanas of which we have many in our scriptures.Another one is the story of YAyati,Progenetor of all the vedic Kshatriya tribes like puru ,Yadu etc in which it is said Puru the youngest son offered his youth to his father for 1000years in lieu of succession to the throne and yadu was cursed along with his sons not being able to rule.This seem to be a legend rather than true story.It tries to justify why Yadavs should not rule who were facing stiff opposition during that time.Yadavs were next to come in india after purus and were called lunar dynasty on the pretext of purus being called solar.
Scriptural references of scythic connotations of Yadus origin 1.Magasthenese says Surasena worshipped Herakles,2.Scriptures say Krishna lifted Govardhana (a mountain) and was called Giridhari fought with Indra (Aryan god of Water) and saved life of his people,however word giridhari means one who holds mountain and not lifts,which can be suitably concluded he had raised or protected the water level of reservoir in mountains which was target of Indra(known to be fighting with non-aryans for water).3.Krishna's statement--I arise from water--in bhagwad gita matches with Herakles statement-I am current of water.4.Krishna's statement I take birth in all ages to establish Dharma ,endorses there were many Krishna in the past which justifies his deeds scattered over a large period of time in varying situations.5.Existence of related tribes along the a strip from Greece to India like Youdi of Israel,Pathans of Afghanistan(claiming descent from jadon.(I have contributed from what I remember anybody finding the section in history may replace it with original version.It is astonishing that such a wonderful contribution disappeared both from article and talk page without trace.)Holywarrior 08:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yadavas were of Scythic origin

message: dear Sir there are one more very popular yadav in haryana.
Rao Birender Singh S/o Sh. Rao Balbir Singh (King of Haryana).
can we add this name also. i can tell more things about his life.
thanks
virender kumar yadav
rampura, rewari, haryana, india
This Article needs more contribution regarding yadava rebellion against british raj and Major Social movements engineered by yadavs.I would say article is still a stub.Holywarrior 13:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  famous yadav 

message: Rajputs claim of being yaduvanshi is shady to say the least.Infact they are the greatest imposters who started posing as aryan kshatriya and even yadavs recently .Yaqdu clan of Rajput is infact Sisodia clan which has been recognised as sassanin branch of sakas.They should better justify the claim on rajput page first before attempting any vandalisation on this page.Holywarrior 06:36, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Reply,First get the lesson on  being Civil,Go through above discussion properly,All the questions has already been answered,changing IPs and username is of no use.We are not here to answer your rantings every now and then.One important question regarding north and south--- you should read pages Wodeyar,and other related pages ,You will get your answers about origin of south indian Yadavas.10:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rajputs vandals space 

message: Ahirs of UP and Haryana do have Yaduvanshi clan in them and that justify their claim of being Yadavs.There are many theories about abhir(ahir)-yadav relationship.However not all yadavs are ahir.One theory which has gained currency now is that residents of holyland like sarswati valley or Dwarkas were called abhir/ahir.Holywarrior 06:58, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yadav Ahir Relationship 

message: I have not edited this article anonymously. I am somewhat displeased at being labelled a vandal on this page. Lupin|talk|popups 14:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My edits 

message: To all those who are contributing to this article. Last time I visited these pages, stories of origin from Jews were carelessly thrown around here. I'm glad some knowledgeable people have pitched-in and created neat categories
Also request people to desist from revert-warring and pushing POV content. Anyone aware of the fate of Rajputs page would know that this is a self-defeating exercise and achieves nothing except bitterness and bad taste in the mouths of contributors. 
There is a major period of time missed in the article. From the mythological origins, tghe article switches straight to the contribution in the 1962 war. We need to correct this. I suggest we add a short introduction of the major Yadaa kingdoms across India since the time of Mauryas to lend Historical credibility to the article. Some suggestions:
1) Rashtrakutas
2) Hoyasalas
3) Yadavs of Devagiri
4) Vijayanagara kingdom
5) Wodeyars
After discussing ancient history and middle ages, we can move on to Yadav contributions to the Indian freedom struggle (Tula Ram) after which we can move to independent India.
If anybody has objections in editing this article along these lines, please speak up.
Regards,
indologistindologist
::Even though there are sections on ancient Yadava Kingdoms,they are merely hyperlinks to other pages.I agree they need to be framed into sentences to make it more informative.Atleast a good summary should be added.Holy|Warrior 08:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My Sincere Thanks 

message: I am surprised to find that this place is being used to create information and not present it correctly. Many groups of people have grand notions about their history, or some political agenda. However, this is not the right place for it. If the information is accurate to the best of our knowledge, then please present credible references here. This goes for any topic you write about. No amount of passion can substitute this. For example, how can one relate Yadavs to Kshatriyas? Please provide good arguments for it. I have nothing against any Hindu caste, Yadavs have contributed to India's development immensely, just like others. Why then demonstrate this inferiority complex by creating incorrect/unsubstantiated information here? Please support it credibly, just like others have done on numerous other pages.
Regarding the Kshatriya issue, among Hindus, only the forward castes wear Janeu. Do the Yadava wear it? If they do, support can be provided via references to religious texts or other history books/research articles. Another example, is the reference to Bhagwad Gita that says "Yadavas were possessors of great mystical knowledge is confirmed in Bhagvad Gita itself which says same knowledge was given to Manu (first man on earth), Surya and Ikshavaku (ancestor of Lord Rama) at very ancient time." Wrong information has its own legs, and this is not a proper reference. Please provide the section and other details in the Bhagwad Gita so that people can verify the information presented. Another example is "The Kshatriya religion was propounded by Krishna, and no reference is found before him. We only find Rajnya as the term alternatively used for it (Bhagwad Gita is emaciated form of hidden knowledge—Gope—which has its root in Shiva). Later on, many Kshatriyas were made based on the philosophy of this religion as revealed in Bhagavad Gita." Where are the references? What about caste references in the Vedas and the Puranas? Is the Gita older than all these texts? Please provide proper support for the material here. Many historians have worked on dating these texts.
:::I would advise you to go through Bhagwad Gita, or at least do a simple scan reading if you haven't already, and plz plz don't speculate here. Ikon |no-blast 12:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like you haven't even gone through refs provided in the article.IMHO you should go through --- Abhira article as well.PPL whom you call gavala have their own clans well recorded even in British census. Ikon |no-blast 12:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you like to give ref for your statement  Krishna was born a Kshatriya, and raised among Gwalas, Chap you are soo ill informed and biased too , BE HONEST in your edits  Ikon |no-blast 12:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: there are many references all you require is two eyes, however you may see it with one too, maybe better idea because you seem to be having different parameters about different communities. What makes you think only YADAVs are editing this page???? Your several conclusions speaks itself of your intentions.I would like you to see the talk header first and plz be back to the old ID .Thanks, If you attempt to remove statements --- there are policies which may take care of you.For your perception regarding Janeu even mlechha wear it, phps Domekatar (are they your Forward caste?????) too. I am sorry but I think I may have to rewrite Bhurabal page again. Phps there is little else that can be done to tackle likes of you. Ikon |no-blast 12:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where are the references? 

message: One more issue I would like to discuss here. There is a lot of talk about Kshatriya/Rajput/Yadav etc and many ideas seem to be floating around. First, movement of people between castes was possible in old times, and there are examples of this (e.g. Karna in Mahabharat). The caste system was based on occupation, so there were many groups of people who moved up or down the caste ladder. I think the issue of Agnikul Rajputs can be explained on this basis. Maybe these were Kshatriyas who had converted to Buddhism and were returning to the Hindu fold and needed some sort of symbolic purification. Clearly symbolism was important otherwise how do you define the origin of castes from Brahma? We don't see people being born from the mouth or hands or feet. Another possibility is that Rajputs were Scythians who came to India and then got assimilated into Hindu society, and based on their profession, they were given Kshatriya status. We don't know this at the moment with certainty. All this is fine as the occupation is what defined the status. Now we have corrupted the system.  The evidence for the foreign origin of Brahmins is equally compelling (and both can be strong or weak depending on the time frame of discussion; there has been movement of people both to and from India), so there is not point in arguing about it. There must be some clans older in India and some newer. Even Yadavs have foreign origin, remember Africa? The key point here is that the dispute lies is establishing the link between current day Yadavs and early Kshatriya Kingdoms. This is not done here. Even if one can prove that all the Rajputs came to India yesterday, that would still not solve the problem. So discussing issues that are irrlevant and create bad feeling are of no use.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.54.196.28 (talk • contribs)  
:::Yes, nobody wants bad feeling here,If you have I would ask you to hold it tightly within your hearts, Some ppl here are just merciless and might like to toss you to AFRICAN safari --- The research you are suggesting is almost equivalent to making Original Research, though I am not against it, Wikipedia policies counter it, and you may see many deleted articles Dholbajba, Dogmaiyaa, Domkatar up again.Are you willing to handle them. If you ask me, I have absolutely no problem. Ikon |no-blast 12:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding Africa ----- A hypothesis comes to mind , DYK Apiru (African tribe), Ophir and Abhira are all related , both etymologically and sugests some historical linkage; What you call Indus Valley Civilisation (some scholars feel should have been sarasvati valley) was phps inhabited by these Apiru to be called Abhira and recognised as OPhir in bible, many practices of hinduism being traced there (But why were they BLACK????). A similar hypothesis says actualy culture belonged to blacks (backed by some COMPELLING evidences) which spread to some nomadic whites in course of time.Regarding Yadava northern Yadavas come under indo-european family, not sure about southern wing . Ikon |no-blast 13:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another issue