Talk:Indian martial arts/Archive 5

message: As usual, more inconsequential mumblings, routines of confusion and plain lies.
As hard as it is to pinpoint the misconceptions in these guy's list, here is an attempt anyways.
1) The Shaolin website I mentioned is official in nature. The fact is there were two official Shaolin websites, one for the readers of English and the other for those versed in Mandarin, this is a trend in many websites of oriental nature, another popular example would be the official website from PRIDE Fighting Championshipss. I just opted for the english version version to be mentioned on the page in the intrest of the readers.
2) The Karate community subscribes to India being a founding influence on their martial arts, this view is held by legendary Karate pioneers, such as Funakoshi Gichin and others. If my opposition has been able to convince you in lesser or greater degree,  about disputes about the origins of karate and India's role in this, I ask you to set up a challenge. Let's see who can bring in more websites substantiating their claim, more credible authors etc., citations by Funakoshi Gichin (the pioneer of Shotokan Karate) etc.
3) Another misconception created by them is that India is neglected or disputed as a founding influence of martial arts, the majority disputes the claims and such, for serving this purpose they used the the-vast-majority-is-against-you-and-you-represent-a-minority routine, one that is 100% fraudulent but does raise apprehensions nevertheless.
I once again challenge them, to display the extent of penetration of their point of view and I will display the extent of penetration of mine.
India being a founding influence is the overwhelmingly popular point of view, the view held by two people Kenny (who says he practices kung Fu) and JFD (who says he knows it) is strictly held by a couple of people with an affinity for Kung Fu and who can't bear to think about it's origins being outside of their comfort zone, no matter how microscopic their train of thought is.
4) Surprisingly enough, the sentences from my past works (none of them seem to relect the good work I did on various martial arts projects, just random lines, which when were turned enclyclopedic, I thanked the guy who did it in the talk page, even in the mentioned article Indian nationalism, I have done a lot of good work, adding full coulumns, citations, references and links) have found a way into this, to somehow discredit me and end all my arguments. I am not stating that "India is the home to every martial art on the planet", "India was IT, end of argument" or that "India is the only influence". This is the paranoia that these guys created in an attempt to try and have an argument against me.
I, like the Gracie family, Funakoshi Gichin and the Shaolin and an overwhelming number of pioneers and institutes, believe that India one of the founding influences on many martial arts of relevance including those emanating from the Shaolin, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu and Karate, alongwith arts developed in the indianized kingdoms.
There are also many things mentioned by me which were blown out of context and even as we speak these guys have mauled the content in many individal Indian martial arts articles by saying things like Mallayuddha is a generic term (I know sanskrit and boy ae you wrong) and else. Oh well, about the proposed solution.  
*I'm ok with the lines Cowman109 suggested, my understanding is that the mentions of institutions will be made, India would be written down as "one of the founding influences" (I'm budging from the originally proposed "founding infuence", as suggested in the gracie family and Shaolin sites) and the language kept enclyclopedic.
*The mention of Bodhidharma paragraph stays, untouched and undisputed.
*The rewriting suggestion for Doss paragraph will be submitted mentioning India's role in the martial arts developed in the Indianized kingdoms, this could also be done in the manner suggested by Cowman109, on the same lines.
Freedom skies 08:43, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Replies

message: Look, Mallayuddha, if you read any textbook on Indian wrestling or history, is a Sanskrit term for wrestling... Nothing in the ancient texts describe a martial art of Mallayuddha - all they describe is this one god-king or that one god-king wrestled each other. And please do not state that you know ancient sanskrit... it's one of those languages you need to go to college to study on and get a Ph.D.  It's like stating that you know ancient sumerian or egyptian heiroglyphics.  all ancient texts of any sort describe wrestling.  the oldest story in history is Gilgamesh and it describes archery and wrestling when the protagonist fought another protagonist.  Does that mean that the ancient middle easterners had a martial arts based around wrestling and archery?  and you are subscribing to a POV view of history.  You mention only those sources and pieces of those sources that support your view.  The same sources that you have mentioned in the past, have also stated that India gained its martial arts from the Middle East, yet you do not put that in the article at all. No credible martial arts textbook describes Mullayuddha as a martial arts... 
Further, you have not shown anywhere that the British were instrumental in the destruction of Indian martial arts. The british only suppressed certain martial arts and they actually supported others whenever it suited them...Kennethtennyson 13:42, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: disputed sections