Talk:Altruism/Archive 1

message: point a) the statement about the slime mold is blatantly plagarized.
point b) it's actually false. It's not an example of altruism
Nomination for removal.
Lepidoptera 21:04, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: agreed.  also, the example seems too underdeveloped for inclusion.--Heesung 16:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Biological Altruism

message: I am not happy about the description in the philosophy/ethics section that "In practice, altruism is the performance of duties to others with no view to any sort of personal gain for one's efforts". The duty being performed may only exist if an altruistic viewpoint is taken. Ethical egoists would deny the very existence of most duties to others, and in fact a devout ethical egoist would claim to perform in full all duties to others. I'm not quite sure what this statement should be changed to, it's certainly "almost there" (it distinguishes, for example, the instance of a person who likes to think of himself as an altruist but, like a sinning Catholic, fails to perform the duties that imposes upon him) but if you mention duties then some mention of the origin of these duties is really required. I suspect that the best choice of action would be to avoid the mention of duties altogether. VivaEmilyDavies 15:17, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I agree largely with that. I wrote most of the philosophy stuff but I'm not really qualified to do any overall editing because I'm not confident enough on the details of my sociology/psychology. Animal and human altruism can be usefully separated as long as the links are pointed out; at the end of the day humans are animals too, but I can see the pragmatic reasons for separating. Toby W 17:50, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I did what I could. The last main section(psychology and sociology) is the most troublesome. First, there is really no psychology or sociology in there; there are a lot of ideas of how altruism may have evolved in humans, but no actual information about how altruism is actually exhibited in humans. I was tempted to just remove that section heading, but it would be great to real information about altruism in human psychology (when is it exhibited, what similarities/differences are there among societies, is it related to spite?) That section still has too much argument in it, and is not always NPOV. The proposed evolution of consciousness is too speculative and long. AdamRetchless 03:03, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philosophy ethics section 

message: An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Altruism article:
* Can link self-interest: ...ltruism can arise from using narrow or broad definitions of self-interest. Many subscribe to the view that self-interest can be defin...
* Can link self-esteem: ...ternal" benefit of a "good feeling," sense of satisfaction, self-esteem, fulfillment of duty (whether imposed by a religion or ideo... (link to section)
* Can link counter-intuitive: ...ecreasing the fitness of the actor. This would appear to be counter-intuitive if one presumes that natural selection acts on the indi... (link to section)
* Can link gene pool: ... on the individual. Natural selection, however, acts on the gene pool of the subjects, not on each subject individually. Recent d... (link to section)
* Can link net profit: ...the net expenditure of effort (tit) is far greater than the net profit when it occasionally pays off (tat). ... (link to section)
* Can link co-operative: ...rms, a free rider is an agent who draws benefits from a co-operative society without contributing. In a one-to-one situation, fr... (link to section)
* Can link one-to-one: ...fits from a co-operative society without contributing. In a one-to-one situation, free riding can easily be discouraged by a tit-f... (link to section)
* Can link free riding: ...ve society without contributing. In a one-to-one situation, free riding can easily be discouraged by a tit-for-tat strategy. But in... (link to section)
* Can link tit-for-tat: ...o-one situation, free riding can easily be discouraged by a tit-for-tat strategy. But in a larger-scale society, where contribution... (link to section)
* Can link the common good: ...each other, each contributing resources and each drawing on the common good. Now imagine a rogue free rider, an agent who draws... (link to section)
* Can link well-behaved: ...to be beneficial to individuals at cost to society. How can well-behaved co-operative agents avoid being cheated? Over many generati... (link to section)
* Can link form of government: ...ealm of politics, he may employ an agent of coercion in the form of government to enforce this supposed moral obligation.... (link to section)
* Can link moral obligation: ...coercion in the form of government to enforce this supposed moral obligation.... (link to section)
Additionally, there are some other articles which may be able to linked to this one (also known as "backlinks"):
* In Tao Te Ching, can backlink altruism: ...te quietism, harmonious living, unconditional love, and altruism, in common with later systems of belief and faith. However,...
* In Ethics, can backlink altruism: ...etimes be seen as an evolutionary adaptation. For instance, altruism towards members of one's own family promotes one's [[inclus...
* In Mahayana, can backlink altruism: ...257;na as self-benefit for the benefit of others, unlimited altruism and pity being the theory of Mahāyāna. ...
* In Peloponnesian War, can backlink altruism: ...o assist their ally.  The Athenians did not act solely from altruism; they were driven primarily by self-interest. The Athenian ...
* In Ranma ½ characters, can backlink altruism: ...Happosai was experiencing a totally out-of-character fit of altruism, and decided to help the mother out with her birthing.  Thi...
* In Alignment (role-playing games), can backlink altruism: ...y innocent life, whether for fun or profit.  "Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentien...
* In Duong Hong Ky, can backlink altruism: ...]], Virginia, Duong Hong Ky is well-known for his altruism, language skills, as well as his knowledge in several areas...
* In Takla Haymanot, can backlink altruism: ...hiopian]] for "the gift of faith"). His wife, known for her altruism towards the poor, was named "Sarah", but also called "Agzah...
* In Dysgenics, can backlink altruism: ...l." Julian Huxley described eugenics as "of all outlets for altruism, that which is most comprehensive, and of longest range" (V...
* In Dersu Uzala, can backlink altruism: ...w of the world and admires his intelligence and no-nonsense altruism. When winter sets in and the detachment must go back to civ...
Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:22, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest 13 possible wiki links and 10 possible backlinks for [[Altruism]]. 

message: <Commentary on Altruism— Ayn Rand argued that altruism is the willful sacrifice of one's values, and represents the reversal of morality because only a rationally selfish ethics allows one to pursue the values required for human {organically interdependent} life.>
From Spinozistic Ideas:
:One of the main purposes of Spinoza's Ethics" is to teach that you do not LOVE altruistically, but out of self-interest. If the LOVE be rational it leads to an increase in probability of Perpetuation for both the lover and that loved; if not rational, a decrease.
:Substitute the word need for 'love' and you will understand 'love' in its full dimensions. There is no 'altruism'. When you say "I love you" it is a euphemism for "I need you and—if the love be healthy and lasting—I will fulfill your needs." When you say "I hate  you" you are saying "I do not need you, you are not fulfilling my needs for peace-of-mind." {See ""I-thee".}  
Extract from Mark Twain's "WHAT IS MAN?":
:Love, Hate, Charity, Compassion, Avarice, Benevolence, and so on. I mean we attach misleading MEANINGS to the names. They are all forms of self-contentment, self-gratification, but the names so disguise them that they distract our attention from the fact {unfaced glaring truth}.  
Yesselman 02:59, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Love Is Need 

message: This section strikes me as original researchy. For example "With regard to their political convictions, altruists may be divided in two broad groups: Those who believe altruism is a matter of personal choice (and therefore selfishness can and should be tolerated), and those who believe that altruism is a moral ideal which should be embraced, if possible, by all human beings." — I'm not sure there is much sense in that at all.  - FrancisTyers · 20:15, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Original research?