Talk:Students for Justice in Palestine

message: Current article intro reads SJP is dedicated to educate their respective campuses on the injustice that has taken place in Palestine and that continues to do so on a daily basis.. That's more suited to a campaign flyer than an encyclopedia article IMO. Andrewa 13:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: A "citation needed" tag has been in place since December 2009 regarding the sentence:
"There is some dispute as to its origin, as a Students for Justice in Palestine existed at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign since at least 1996."
This sentence should be deleted within one week if a citation is not added.Intlaware (talk) 06:16, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign sjp chapter establishment date 

message: The article's lead states that Students for Justice in Palestine is one organization with various chapters. However, there does not seem to exist a unified Students for Justice in Palestine website, and no evidence is provided for the existence of an organization above the chapters. An organization typically has, among other things, a website, a board of directors, one or more officers, by-laws, meetings, a mailing address, and a tax status. As far as I can tell, there is no organization above the so-called chapters, which appear to be the actual organizations.
Upon examining various "chapter" websites, I did not find any that mention "various neighborhoods in Tel Aviv" as examples of "illegally held Palestinian lands". This should be corrected. This is especially true since "Palestinian lands" is used as anchor text for Palestinian territories, which states "The Palestinian territories consist of two (or perhaps three) distinct areas: the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and East Jerusalem." Tel Aviv is not in any of these three areas. —Anomalocaris (talk) 07:29, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chapters or separate organizations and cleanup required 

message: K - facebook chapters are nice, and yes, they can be googled, but they are not official. you, me and my cousin can start any facebook group, etc. - for a group (not just SJP) to be official, they need real official status, and in this case, if it is a university group, then the student union, the university program board, something, will have a place for this group. so, please, revert your good faith edit. thanks. Soosim (talk) 09:58, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  facebook chapters 

message: 1) There are no RS for most of the claims, in particular about the alleged "victories" at Riverside and San Diego. If RS cannot be found, most of this section will have to go. 
2) On of the reliable sources provided (UCSD's The Guardian -- http://www.ucsdguardian.org/news-and-features/california/item/26115-uci-passes-unanimous-divestment-resolution#.UW2TOrWYHSh) discusses a number of failures by SJP at UCSD. But these are not discussed at all in this article. 
3) There are also major NPOV problems. Scarletfire2112 (talk) 18:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right, the section is crappy and even a bit silly. I'll fix it soon in NPOV way. Since our views of what is relevant may differ, I'm sure you'll add anything you think is missing. CarolMooreDC🗽 20:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major problems in California BDS section 

message: reformation...please. do not revert just to revert. please read edit summaries and if something is not clear, please ask. hey, you know what? you can ask some of the editors who have recently made edits if you don't want to talk to me. no sweat. Soosim (talk) 08:23, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  again, removing non-RS ---- reformation, please, EI is not, not, not RS. 

message: First in the latest set of edits I saw a couple things which should not have been removed - or obviously should have been tagged - and will put them back. 
Second, collaborative editing is also about finding refs for things.  For example, I spent far more time looking for refs in Separation barrier, than deleting material. And I deleted because I could not find refs - and that includes looking in news archives and Highbeam.  (And I had almost no help at all - except two irrelevant refs - from the editors who wanted to keep all the unsourced/WP:OR material. In fact I added two new separation barriers and someone in a hurry to edit war deleted them! Haven't gotten around to putting them back yet.)
It doesn't take that much work to do a search of the name of the group and the relevant university to find information, rather than just willy nilly deleting everything.  It's hard to assume good faith when 2 or 3 editors just go deletion crazy on an article and don't try to do that sort of thing at all. 
Here, for example, is a news archive search since 2011 of "Students for Justice in Palestine". At least other editors trying to improve the article can use it as a source. Also, don't forget that existing refs, even if they are from pro-Israel publications and seem to have a negative view from their titles, often have neutral or even positive information in them which has been ignored but which can be used in the article to improve it. CarolMooreDC🗽 18:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Doing research instead of just removing material

message: *At this diff Soosim removed material from an article about SPJ that provides important information and context; the fact that it also makes SPJ look credible, while removed they look less credible, is probably related.
*This diff you removed relevant info about what they called Dichter which people of all POVs might find of interest. Also relevant is why they gave him a hard time. As the article says: Dichter cancelled a planned trip to the U.K. to deliver an address on the diplomatic process in 2007 over concerns that he would be arrested due to his involvement in the decision to assassinate the Hamas leader in 2002. 
*Remove UC Irvine material not previously challenged either in talk or in a tag. (Above is other CA schools.) If you read WP:Edit warring you see one way to avoid charges of edit warring is to tag or discuss problems first to give people a chance to fix them if fixing possible. Which I'll do.
*FYI only, free speech fight at Berkley already was a mess and I've found better sources so will rewrite. Princeton discussed above. CarolMooreDC🗽
::hi carol - about the hampshire college edit - what is the problem you are seeing? this article is about sjp, not hampshire college, so " It was the first college to do so; thirty-two years earlier it was the first school to divest from South Africa due to its apartheid policies" is not relevant and that is why we have wikilinks so people interested in more info about that subject can click and find out more. the other two parts of that diff are:  rewording of what happened based on RS and the school's response, etc.; and the dershowitz quote, explained in that edit as well. so again, what was not clear? thanks for explaining. 
::the second diff you supply is the same as the first. but, i took the liberty of searching for the dichter material. i now see, and thanks for pointing it out, that the comment about what they called Dichter will help explain more. i am readding it.
::the irvine material was discussed and edited on the former sjp bds page. 
::and you can try to rewrite, good luck. not easy. and let's see how well you follow your own advice above! Soosim (talk) 06:19, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: POV removal of sourced material/edit warring

message: Please Change:
"SJP has used Facebook successfully to do outreach to individual and organize and promote events both on and off campus. Many chapters have hundreds of members and also use Twitter and other social media.ccountsing its reach and visibility, which can be somewhat attributed to the organization's use of online social media.[1]"
to
"SJP has used Facebook successfully to do outreach to individual and organize and promote events both on and off campus. Many chapters have hundreds of members and also use Twitter and other online social media networks for a broader reach and visibility[1]"
because
There are grammatical/syntax errors.
Godoy music (talk) 16:39, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: "Before" was broken, "after" is better worded. Done. “WarKosign” 18:09, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2015 

message: The link/ source for the statement listed under history (Note number 6) is no longer an existing website. JohnR1948 (talk) 18:13, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: Placed the  template by the URL. regards,  DRAGON BOOSTER  ★ 18:44, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

text: I'd like to add on to this. Once you reopen this request, please specify what source you would like to add in its place. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 18:46, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 August 2017 

message: The National SJP does not have anti-Zionism as an official platform. Individual chapters work independently and often take anti-Zionism as a platform. I am not defender of SJP (having had my friends harassed by them) but this article needs to be NPOV. Asarelah (talk) 13:36, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: According to a lot of sources you are mistaken: ... anti-Zionist groups like Students for Justice in Palestine ... ... Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP), a radical anti-Zionist club ...  SJP continuously uses the phrase "anti-Zionist" While those who loathe the Jewish state are often quick to insist that they are “anti-Zionists” rather than anti-Semites, Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP), a prominent campus anti-Israel group, seems to have dropped all pretenses “WarKosign” 14:37, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Individual *chapters* are often anti-Zionist, but the *national* SJP does not have official platform saying such, and chapters operate independent from it. I propose what we do is that we create a subsection with an explaining the national SJP's platform, and then describing the anti-Zionism of its individual chapters. I despise SJP, but I really want to be as balanced as possible. Asarelah (talk) 16:16, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps SJP doesn't declare anti-Zionism as its official platform, but outside sources consider them to be anti-Zionist. Sounds like two POVs and both need to be represented. “WarKosign” 16:22, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: SJP: Anti-Zionist or not?

message: Article uses the acronym several times and does not explain it. 2605:6000:EE85:8100:74D2:3EA1:A208:93C0 (talk) 23:08, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Ive clarified at the first instance of the acronym, thanks. nableezy - 15:49, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: What is BDS?

message: The NYU Student Government Assembly passed a divestment resolution recently, so the list at the end of the article should reflect this. Under the subsection "Universities that have passed divestment resolutions (student governments)," Add a new bullet point: 
• New York University (SGA) 35-14-14
https://nyunews.com/2018/12/06/student-senators-pass-bds-resolution-after-shouts-screams-and-snaps/ Gambiewambie (talk) 06:13, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Done DannyS712 (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 December 2018 

message: Expand the "Organization" heading with more text and/or eliminate it entirely. It is not necessary to have a full heading with one sentence in reference to branches at two schools. Flubberpuff (talk) 16:39, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Section removed per WP:FAIL going back to atleast July. —Sirdog (talk) 05:21, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2023 

message: Here is a url for a CBS source that includes the statement why SJP was suspended for the rest of the fall term: 
https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/columbia-university-student-groups-suspended-students-for-justice-in-palestine-jewish-voice-for-peace/
Threatening rhetoric and intimidation is significantly different than the current version of the event. TMLutas (talk) 04:14, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Columbia SJP suspension statement 

message: The AMCA report seems biased, it equates anti-semitism with anti-zionism, and the database which it uses (it's publically available here https://amchainitiative.org/search-by-incident#incident/display-by-date/) doesn't distinguish between targeting zionist organizations and targeting jewish students (for more information read the study's methodology and appendix https://www.amchainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Antisemitism_At-the-Epicenter-of-Campus-Intolerance_Report-2016.pdf), or anti-semitic statements and anti-zionist statements. Here are some examples of them just equating anti-zionism with anti-semitism, or equating jews with zionists  
It seems that instead of the study correlating BDS and zionist groups correlating with anti-semitic activity, it instead correlates with anti-zionist activity. The majority of incidents that I see are anti-zionist, not anti-semitic, unless you equate zionists with Jews and zionism with judaism. SapphicGae (talk) 02:38, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  AMCHA report, possible bias 

message: Please change "In 2023, Haaretz found" to "In 2023, the Israeli publication Haaretz found" to provide more context for the audience unfamiliar with this publication. Jookhalter (talk) 16:07, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Jookhalter: Hello! I believe that the wikilink is enough, if the user wants to know more about the Haaretz, they would just click the link and there is . Deltaspace42 (talk • contribs) 17:48, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 January 2024 

message: As it is generally considered unreliable for facts, I believe that either a better source should be found or the content should be removed for being non-notable. Does someone disagree? FortunateSons (talk) 16:22, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  I believe that the use of a Gunrel and highly biased source such as EI is not appropriate here 

message: This part here does not put racism in quotes which I feel like it should.
According to members of SJP, the point of trying to register for Birthright Israel was to expose the program's racism.
The main gist here is that since birthright allows only Jews, then it must be racist. Saudi Arabia doesn't allow non muslims to enter Mecca/Kaaba yet I haven't anyone accuse it of being racist! Steveonsi (talk) 18:04, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Racism" 

message: Anti-American Bias
Their webpage refers to the US and Canada as "occupied Turtle Island"  
https://nationalsjp.org/
Their values include "liberation from Palestine to the Rio Grande.
https://nationalsjp.org/about GaryBx88 (talk) 20:10, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. User:CanonNi (talk|contribs) 23:33, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 April 2024 

message: "The Tufts University SJP branch faced criticism for expressing support for Hamas's terrorist attacks on Israel in an email."
The term "terrorist attack" is POV. I recommend impartial terms like "military offensive on Israel". Gamalny (talk) 22:09, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks, fixed nableezy -  23:30, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: Instead of campaigned for I think we can update to say have used unsanctioned protests and violence against Jews and police to advocate for peace. 2605:A601:A5C9:7E00:6A07:ACE4:F2F:9EA8 (talk) 15:13, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not based on your opinion. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Initial paragraph correction