Talk:Eurovision Song Contest/Archive 1

message: Perhaps add a table column for the writers of the winning songs? -- Tarquin
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or even the venues? Another thing I could do it or someone else but have pages off all teh songs for that year and what place they came in. - fonzy
:All the information specific to a particular Song Contest (location, entries, full results, perhaps also the songwriters, but not separate pages for every single song or something like that) could be on a page for that year's event, yes. Adding all that to one page would make it too big and the table is wide enough as it is. The links are already there in the table, all that is needed is for someone to edit them... ;) -Scipius
- i have created one for 1956 please tell me waht you think. - fonzy
:It looks excellent, but I've taken the liberty of changing the table to look more like others on Wikipedia, what do you think?  Cellpadding does not seem to work properly, so the text runs right to the edge of the cell for the moment, but it should be fixed at some point. Also, good work on shrinking the table on the main page, I hope that fixes Zoe's problem. -Scipius
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Yet again a case of a table causing the page to span into the right margin.  Can somebody tell me what to do to try to cut down the column widths? -- Zoe
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I will keep the other tables to that style also i think some one should write a good artcile on each year of it underneath. - fonzy
:I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "that style".  It's still too wide.  -- Zoe
--i'm nto talking about the main table i am tlaking about the new idividucal tabels i am creating for each year. - fonzy. ps sorry to confuse you i should have written this below Scipius message.
:On the individual pages: Fonzy: Yes, I originally added a bit of text, but then decided that the venue could stay in the table if no-one was going to write a short article. Someone should probably write something about the individual ESC (how it went, any peculiarities, etc.), but I don't know enough about the subject and I understand if you don't feel up to it at the moment either ;) It's not that necessary anyway at this point, let's have the tables first. 
:On the main table width: Zoe, does the table at least adapt to a changing size of browser window? For me (Moz1.0) it at the very least narrows the table automatically (breaks up the longer performer names and song titles) until a width that's far below what one can expect, so I don't see why it doesn't for you.  -Scipius
::The size seems fine now.  Did someone change it? -- Zoe
:::I changed the note below the table (it had a space in front of it, thereby not narrowing automatically), maybe that was it? -Scipius
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I need someone good at languages to check on spellings of foreign words on the names of the songs. Also I think some of the songs should have accents on. But the sources i got them from did not have them. - fonzy
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I've noticed on various pages, such as this one, that European, especially non-English speaking, song titles are not capitalized except the first word.  Is this not a rule outside of English-speaking countries, and/or is it rare in Europe?  I don't mean to be nitpicky, but if many countries don't capitalize songs as a rule, Wikipedia:Wikiproject Music Standards needs to be changed to reflect this. Tuf-Kat
:Just a sample look at a couple of songs by typing them in at http://ubl.artistdirect.com/ show that the names are capitalized there.  Are they wrong here? -- Zoe
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I have some questions and comments about the various by-year contest pages, and I'm not sure where to put them, so I'll try here:
* Every single one of them links to Eurovision, instead of Eurovision Song Contest. While colloquially "correct", strictly speaking this is sloppy; worse, Eurovision is (now) a disambiguation page, so it doesn't even take the user to the right place. I guess someone's going to have to go through and correct them all.
* On the articles for some of the earlier contests, the "__NOTOC__" directive has been added. I would have thought it was perfectly sensible for these pages to have tables of contents, but wonder if there was a reason I haven't thought of for disabling them...?
* Great work otherwise, by the way! Very, well, comprehensive!! 
- IMSoP 23:30, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Past contests and results

message: Finland has never won the Eurovision Song Contest, and it's become common tradition in Finland to think it never will. Most Finnish songs have even fared very badly. That two countries very near us - Sweden and Estonia - have won merely adds insult to the injury.
There is a Finnish joke about this:
A man frees a genie from a bottle. The genie says he will grant one wish. "Bring back the Carelian ithmus!" says the man. "That's too big a wish, maybe a smaller one?" replies the genie. "Finland should win the Eurovision Song Contest even once" says the man. The genie thinks for a while, then says "Let me see that map again..."
Are there any other countries with such an attitude towards the contest?  — JIP | Talk 09:34, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Somewhat ironic, this section. I think that Finnish joke just breathed its last :) Vilĉjo 22:14, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's what I thought as well. What should we change it to, then? Finland has already won a Nobel prize, and the world championship in ice hockey too... Maybe an Oscar for best foreign film? Or has that been done too? Or is it too lame? JIP | Talk 09:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eurovision and Finland 

message: Anyone know why Italy haven't been in it since 1997? 84.13.136.202 11:57, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A quick wander round Google suggests that the broadcaster RAI weren't happy with the viewing figures and/or the ESC rules, so decided to stop taking part Dupont Circle 19:49, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italy? 

message: Am I correct in believing that the rules of the junior eurovision require that the next year's host be pre-determined before the contest so as to reduce the stress on the children because they aren't singing for the prestige of hosting the competition next year?
If I am should it be put in?
62.252.32.14 19:59, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This comment should be left at Talk:Junior Eurovision Song Contest :) EuroSong talk 23:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  junior eurovision 

message: I may regret raising this, but does anybody else feel that the phrase 'decided to withdraw rather than show the Israeli entry' is a bit simplistic when describing why Lebanon withdrew from the 2005 contest? As I understand it, Tele-Liban, the Lebanese TV corporation, decided to enter, but it was later forced to withdraw when it emerged that Lebanese law made it impossible to show the Israeli entry (see here for the full story from the BBC). Perhaps a minor edit, to make the situation clearer? If we have to lay blame, at least reflect the fact that it was Lebanon's legislation that was the problem. At the moment it doesn't do Tele-Liban any credit for entering and instead suggests that it was their attitude problem which brought about the withdrawal. Comments? Peeper 12:25, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Lebanon's 2005 Withdrawal

message: From the article:
:"The Irish dancing show Riverdance was first seen internationally at the 1994 contest"
I think Riverdance was actually created for the occasion, not just "seen internationally" at that contest. So the link between Riverdance and the ESC are bigger - anybody care to chime in with facts? Peter S. 14:55, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Riverdance part correct 

message: What does "Because many European were founded on ideas of linguisitc unity" mean? - Fredrik | talk 17:24, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor English 

message: I nominated the :Template:Eurovision Song Contest host cities for deletion. It is big, and is it useful for anyone but a fraction of the readers? Wouldn't a short notice, such as the  be more expedient? / Fred-Chess 17:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  template nominated for deletion 

message: Why isn't Terry Wogan mentioned prominently in this article? He's been hosting the celebrations for thousands of years now surely. He's the one who brings a bit of life to it anyway.(UTC)
: I disagree that he should have his own section. Wikipedia is an international site, and the Eurovision Song Contest is an international institution. Wogan only has relevance to the BRITISH viewers, and I don't think he should be given any higher prominence in the international article than any other commentator - aside from a brief mention, since he is the most notorious one. EuroSong 16:33, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He doesn't host it, he just does the commentary for viewers in one country.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.234.4.1 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 20 May 2006  (UTC)
I disagree, Terry has a notariety amongst the whole of Eurovision for his commentary as he is the only one to publicly acknowledge the political voting taking place and for his satirical take on the contest. This is in a complete contrast to the other nations who all take the event extremely seriously. Maniac Pony 09:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Tezza? 

message: The article has a number of references to geographical voting - Bosnia for Coratia, Cyprus for Greece and Turkey, the entire Eastern Bloc for Russia ("Thanks for the 12 points, Ukraine, your crude will be arriving tomorrow") - as well as This may or may not have a bearing on "Political and Regional Voting Patterns" as described above..  Someone appears to have appropriated an entire section of the article.
It really needs a rewrite generally, though;
* It mentions Ireland's hat-trick three times in three paragraphs
* It doesn't really give any impression of how much of a joke the whole thing is to many of the participants
* The overview reads like something written by twenty people, all of whom disagreed with each other, and none of whom bothered to look at the rest of the section before tacking their bit on the end.
I'll almost certainly never get round to doing that rewrite, though, so the above are points to consider for anyone who wants to have a go (if they think they're hard enough). Tyrhinis 22:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political/geographical voting 

message: I have added expansion requests to the three sections which were blanked when breakout articles were created. Removing these sections entirely was a very bad move. It ruined the balance of the article, and I would now rate this article as very poor indeed on this account. In my opinion it is essential to have a summary of all aspects of a topic in the main article. Twittenham 11:13, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted sections

message: Might I note that Wikipedia is not a collection of external links. I have removed the international ones (these can easily be found from google and this is the english speaking wikipedia) as well as the 'chat sites' (these are not in accordance with wikipedia external links policy and can also be found easily off of google). I hope there are no problems with this.
::michael<span
 style="color: rgb(255, 102, 0);"></span><span
 style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 102, 0);">Curtis </span><small
 style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> talk+ contributions</small> 09:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I totally agree. In my re-write, I stuck to your general idea and kept the list of external links relatively small - considering that there are a lot of Eurovision sites out there. Wikipedia is not a link farm, and we only need the main sites here.. and certainly no more than two categories of link! (Official sites and fan-created sites). EuroSong talk 23:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I have added two websites to the Fan sites section. All Kinds Of Everything was nominated for 6 Eurowebby and ESCKaz nominated for 7 Eurowebby awards, including best Overall Eurovision website and Best News Content. Eurowebby awards are  recognized by EBU. If we have gossip site Oikotimes and almost dead Eurosong.net in the list this 2 sites have to be there. --Zaqqq 03:36, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: I have noticed that the article seems to have become quite messy in recent times - and very poorly written in places. Possibly this is due to an influx of new contributors, around the time of the Contest. The article used to be very good - a few months ago. But now I think it needs a major clean-up and/or rewrite. I may take this upon myself to do... or not, as time permits. EuroSong 14:46, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay... I did the re-write myself. I cleaned out a lot of the non-encyclopædic stuff which should not be in the main article, including the yearly table (which could be re-included in the "history" article, I think. I've tried to keep it concise, although the article is still 37k (Wikipedia's recommended maximum article size is 30k). Also a few pictures have brightened it up a bit. I hope everyone is satisfied with the article as it is now. EuroSong talk 01:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  General clean-up/rewrite needed 

message: If 1974 and 2004 are to be highlighted in the list, the article should give a reason for this. -- Jao 15:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Highlights 

message: Do we really need ? A template just for showing two winners and of something that was only peripheric to the real contest? I think that can be mentioned in the article without the need for a template --Andromeda 09:52, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, that template is useless. JIP | Talk 18:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do we really need {{template|BSASE}}? 

message: This article failed the GA nominations due to lack of references and wikification. See WP:CITE and WP:WIKIFY. --Tarret 22:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA

message: Hi everyone,
It is my intention, ultimately, to get this article listed as a Featured Article in Wikipedia. Featured articles are ones which fulfill all of the criteria according to Wikipedia guidelines, and ones which tend to get the most exposure. Each day a different article is featured on the Wikipedia main page: I am hoping that one day this article will be featured.
A step along the way to getting it featured, is to get it recognised as a Good Article. Please see these criteria. In particular, we need to ensure:
* All the information given is encyclopædic in nature: that is to say, it is all relevant to the Eurovision Song Contest as a whole concept. We don't want to dwell on tiny details, or make long lists of things. Recently a mention of "Mr Brown" was tagged onto the end of the "Scrutineers" section, with a note that it is not the same person as an American jazz artist of the same name! This is irrelevant and unencyclopædic.
* It is concise. Currently the aticle is 37k long. The recommended maximum length is 30k, so even now it is a bit too long. If someone thinks that some important information has been left out, perhaps it can be incorporated into existing sentences - or existing sentences can be replaced with superior, more factually accurate ones.
* If someone thinks that something can be added to one of the sections about history, voting or winners, then please consider adding this information to the sub-articles accordingly. These articles were originally created to break out this information, as the main article was getting far too long. Again, think of the length.
If someone thinks that they have some good things to contribute which genuinely push the article further towards Featured Status, as defined by the criteria linked above, then please go ahead - and also feel free to talk about it here on this talk page.
Thanks :)
EuroSong talk 23:10, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's make this a Good Article