Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Martial arts/archive 2

message: For clarity, a new category has been created. "Mixed martial arts" is commonly used to refer to mixed martial arts competition, where competitors from many arts can compete against eachother with minimal rules. People who train "mixed martial arts" can train in multiple styles, hence providing them with a personal fighting style. Hybrid martial arts however emphasize that a martial art specifically incorporates techniques and/or strategies from other martial arts. ---Marcus- 13:38, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hybrid martial arts 

message: Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? Please post your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Gflores Talk 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project 

message: How does one join this project?
-- Sasuke Sarutobi 02:54, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just add your name to the list of participants and start editing! This is a wiki afterall! I spend perhaps 5% of my time editing MA-related articles so I can tell that adding your username here does not create your any new obligations, it just tells others you are interested in this topic. I don't think this project is very active anymore so new blood would be most welcome. jni 07:34, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joining the project 

message: hi, you might be interested that the Hong Kong action cinema article is looking v. good right now and is being prepared to go to WP:FAC status. please help by adding your comments in the peer review currently running at Wikipedia:Peer review/Hong Kong action cinema/archive1. you can list anything that you feel might prevent it from being featured. thx! Zzzzz 20:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hong Kong action cinema

message: Hi, I've just joined this project.  I created a page on Kokondo, the martial art I practice, and I've done some editing on other martial arts pages.  I would like to mention a few things to the other folks in this project.  First of all, I think it's very problematic that there are very few people on here who have a depth of cross-martial arts knowledge.  This leads to problems; for example karate kata is heavily based on Shotokan,
as are the articles from many individual kata.  Bassai, for instance, is also a Kokondo kata, and therefore probably a kata used in Kyokushin or Sankata or Isshin-ryu, since those are the main influences on Kokondo.  Which leads me to a basic proposal that articles on techniques or kata not describe those techniques as "belonging" to a specific martial art, but rather attempt to be inclusive of their use in other arts. 
Second, I have noticed (as I'm sure many of you have) the tendency of spam links to appear in martial arts articles.  I removed the entire external links section from both Martial arts and Chinese martial arts; most of them are not useful or informative outside sources.  I hope you fellow project members can help me fight this kind of spam in martial arts articles.  
Third, I was surprised to find that there isn't an article on martial arts tournaments; the closest I could find was mention of tournament rules in articles on Taekwondo and Judo, and Kumite (tournament).  This is surprising; we should surely be able to manage an article on martial arts tournaments; it's a very important and notable phenomenon... it's just, I think, that many editors are so focussed on their own art that they can't write an article like this neutrally.
Finally, I just reverted a whole BUNCH of pages that User:JustSomeKid had made into redirects to generic pages like Karate Kata.  I don't know if there's a consensus for having done that, but I certainly strongly disagree with it; there's too much information about the various different kata to have them mashed into one monolithic article.  Mangojuice 04:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. If the same/similar kata exists in multiple styles, then all of those styles need to be mentioned in the article, with the article itself being as neutrally written as possible. And yes, to integrate all kata into one article will make it far too long. It's appropriate for katas that have a long history or that occur in many styles to have their own articles. --Marcus 09:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

text: To follow up on the redirecting of pages to Karate kata, there's a discussion on the issue at Talk:Shotokan#Kata instruction, which others might be interested in participating in.  Mangojuice 12:51, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Some comments

message: Where should we set the bar for individuals? -Objectivist-C 03:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability for martial artists? 

message: Could I request that some members of the WikiProject take a look at Paul Gale (which I found while looking through uncategorised articles) and give some indication as to his notability? Cheers --Pak21 19:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability request 

message: The user who created the Kushindo article also created a lot of seemingly dodgy articles in other subjects.  Can somebody please confirm that this is a real martial art and not just bogus like all his other articles.  Thanks!  rxnd ( t | € | c ) 23:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like crap.  speedy delete!--Dangerous-Boy 04:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Kushindo]] 

message: Would it be possible to get a formal peer review forum going for martial arts articles?  The military peer review forum works well.  Thus, the military articles are showing general improvement.  If we have enough volunteers to be peer reviewers, it could work.  A lot of the MA articles really need some help. Cla68 15:38, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to get a lot people involved for that.  that's just not here.--Dangerous-Boy 04:50, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Formal Peer Review Process

message: I'm looking to make some changes and such along the lines of the format of the Military history WikiProject. Given the closeness of martial arts and military history, I might also see if we can encourage some further collaboration between the two towards a larger 'WikiProject Hoplology' or somesuch.
Of course, the hoplology article would need to be expanded as a pre-requisite, but I'm working on that.
First few points:
# I've numbered the list of participants, so that we can see how many people we have. I'm considering re-ordering it alphabetically (for ease of reading later), and possibly following the system of annotation of specific areas as shown here.
# I'm looking to redraft the current project infobox more along the lines of the Military History infobox (see ). Any suggestions for addition would be appreciated.
# I'm also considering the possibility of having a shortcut for the project (i.e. 'WP:xxx', where 'xxx' is a few characters; see WP:WARS). 'MA' is taken, so are there any other suggestions?
# Finally, as mentioned above, I wonder if we can collaborate with WikiProjects such as 'Military history', 'Buddhism', 'Shinto' and such, given the similar scope. Perhaps even listing them under 'Similar WikiProjects' on the Main page.
I'll be looking into the organisation and awareness-building methods of some of the other WikiProjects to see what we can add here, but this is it for now.
Replies to numbered points in new sub-headings, all other replies under this sub-heading, please. ^^
-- Sasuke Sarutobi 02:24, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: #I can see the reordering working.  I don't see many people on the project talk page though so I don't know how active it is.  
#The mil history box looks to amibitous.  You're probably better off with a noticeboard or to do bulletin. 
# Shortcut MART is my suggestion.  
#best to collaborate with country projects ex: korea, india, japan, china.
--Dangerous-Boy 09:03, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improving set-up and knowledge of WikiProject Martial Arts 

message: ...to use  rather than  when creating stubs about martial artists. I just finished going through the martial arts stubs weeding out people. -Objectivist-C 00:06, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just a reminder... 

message: I merged the project templates into one section, not sure where it should be on the page, though. -Objectivist-C 00:18, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates section 

message: Someone else care to flesh out the list? Use this search link to save yourself some time. -Objectivist-C 01:18, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Don't forget the sub-categories, and try to maintain alphabetical order. -Objectivist-C 01:47, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories section  

message: Anyone else think this is useful? Should it be moved to a sub-page? -Objectivist-C 01:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Make a noticeboard or to do for it. --Dangerous-Boy 21:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles in need of improvement section 

message: A few of us in Wikiproject Mixed Martial Arts are active once more, and I thought I'd let the mother project :-) know of this, and of my personal intent to replace the Martial arts stubs with Mixed martial arts stubs where appropriate.  I consider this to be important at the very least in order to direct more people towards the Wikiproject MMA, as the Martial arts stubs direct them here.  I intend to be as judicious as possible in determining whether an article should be an MMA-stub or an MA-stub - mostly I'll be tagging MMA fighters, teams and events, as in my mind the styles, traditions and techniques lie almost universally in the realm of MA.
I intend to start work on this in the next day or two, and wanted to give time for some comments here.  If any of you would like to help us in WP:MMA, please come over and sign up.  Cheers.  — Estarriol talk 12:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikiproject Mixed Martial Arts active again 

message: Judo alone has 67 official throws.
Is not really reasonable to describe all throws
in a single "Throws" article meant to discuss throws in general.
People with a passion for a particular throw can easily write a book on a single technique.
See suplex, for example.
--Pereza 17:56, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *On a related note, is there a general category for techniques that span multiple disciplines (for instance, the foot sweep or the kip-up)? It might be useful for people looking for the name of a particular maneuver but only have a general idea of the name. Virogtheconq 04:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guidelines for creating articles about techniques 

message: any readers here would like to discuss the indian martial arts... we have an ongoing discussion and the page has been locked.. prior to my and another user's arrival the Indian martial arts page stated that the martial arts of southeast asia along with china and japan owe their arts to india either through the legend of bodhidharma (which the article suggested was true), that bodhidharma trained in varma kalai or some other indian martial art and that through the beliefs of this alex doss character... see august 13 2006 04:53. along with that the article claimed that the british were instrumental in destroying indian martial arts... and it also used religious textbooks to claim that there was an indian martial arts and that various gods and kings in the religious texts practiced martial arts without any citation...  i've been trying to get some neutrality back into the article but am haveing difficulty talking to one user who wrote the original POV article... Kennethtennyson 23:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: indian martial arts

message: I recently wrote an article for the Leitai fighting platform and would like some feedback on it. I remember there used to be a stub on it, but it was deleted. I added the dimensions and even famous fighters of the leitai. I'll take all criticisms--good or bad. (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 09:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New [[Leitai]] platform article 

message: As per WP:MOS - Japanese-related articles, macrons are now allowed in article titles. I believe it is about time that we begin to place macrons everywhere they are appropriate. I have done some of this work myself, and have placed similar notices on other WikiProjects pages in order to recruit some help. I invite and encourage all of you to help in this grand scale project. As it pertains to martial arts, all mentions of "-ryu", in content, wikilinks, and article titles needs to be changed to "-ryū"; there are a number of other places that macrons belong as well. Thank you for your help. LordAmeth 18:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macrons 

message: In order to improve the quality of the articles, and to move more articlPeter Rehse 10:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article classification 

message: How do articles move up in the classification scheme.  For instance how would one move the Aikido article from B to GA.Peter Rehse 02:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article promotion 

message: On the main page there is a guideline that Lists should link to acutal articles.  This makes a lot of sense to me especially since creating a stub is so easy.  At the moment there is so much unverifiable names that it has gotten pretty ugly.  I've already trimmed the Japanese sections but before I go overboard - I just thought I'ld check.Peter Rehse 07:39, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lists

message: After making the changes to allow assessment via the banner, I've discovered that only 88 real articles (I classified the non-articles as NA class already) are tagged by the project banner!  So the first thing to do to turn this project around is to tag talk pages of MA articles with the banner! -- Medains 08:42, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been on a tagging frenzy... the unassessed category is now filled with articles for us to make assessments on and improve!  Interestingly I came across the "needs citation/reference" banner on many of these pages, a common problem methinks. -- Medains 16:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

text: They do look very similar... "A-Class" and "GA-Class" are obviously only one character apart.  I didn't want to have to add exact details of what each classification meant.  Check out the Assessment page for the detail of what separates the classifications.  (These are Wikipedia standard classifications, so they are pretty well set up) -- Medains 08:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Banner tagging

message: I recently corresponded via email with Mr. Gene Ching, Associate Publisher of Kung Fu Tai Chi Magazine, about a separate article I am writing on the Chicken-Saber Sickle ( 鷄刀鐮) and, its cousin, the Chicken-Claw Sickle ( 鷄爪鐮). Anyway, I mentioned the Leitai article to him and he told me that the magazine publishes stuff from amateur writers and compensates them for their work. Unfortunately, they don’t publish works that have appeared in prior venues, like Wikipedia for instance. I wrote him back and said that it would be a GREAT idea for a Leitai article to appear in the magazine since Fearless (2006) came out in American theaters. I said that it sparked many peoples’ interest in the Leitai, including my own when I first saw it on dvd several months ago. I had heard of and done some research on the fighting stage prior to seeing this movie. But it was the movie that inspired me to write this article. I suggested to Mr. Ching that maybe an intern uses my article as a “beginning” for some REAL in-depth research. I hope he takes my advise.(!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 23:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kung Fu Magazine Article 

message: As I can I plan to stage a major assault on the mess that is the link's section of the Tae Kwon Do article (as indicated here and start creating stubs of the various individual styles listed in it's link section, moving those links, creating stubs for the national organizations, creating stubs for notable martial arts individuals (such as National Collegiate Taekwondo Association President 1986-present Grandmaster Yong Chin Pak (8th Dan) ) Lordkazan 15:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Big Tae Kwon Do cleanup 

message: I recently updated my article on Yue Fei's archery teacher Zhou Tong. Its still a work-in-progress and some other people have made small edits. Check it out and tell me what you think.(!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 00:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  HUGE changes to Zhou Tong article 

message: I've noticed a user this morning making a lot of additions/changes/links in Karate articles. Knowing little (i.e. nothing) of the subject, I dn't know if they're valid, or self-promotional or pure spam. Someone with more knowledge might want to take a look at the contribs of . Fan-1967 16:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure whether the major change made to Gojushiho dai is correct or not - the previous version didn't read all that well either, if there are verifiable facts that have been cut they need to be added.  Mostly the rest of the edits seem to be adding links to "The National Akari-ki Karate Kobudo Association" website, or setting the category to something sensible (Kata articles to Kata category instead of Karate category, maybe should be both?).  Having said that - I had a quick check and the Gojushiho dai article change is a complete cut and paste from the Association website and therefore should be reverted as a copyvio.  I'll contact an administrator for advice. -- Medains 08:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multiple changes 

message: Where is the line drawn between legitimate external links and link farms?  It seems to me like an article such as Shorin-Ryu goes way overboard, almost serving as a directory of schools for this relatively common Karate system.  But it seems that there might be instances where it would be relevant to list links to given martial arts schools (maybe on a page about an organization, or a page about a more rare system taught at few schools in the world)...  Is there a consensus on where the line is drawn? (i.e. are all schools in a widespread system really notable?  If not, what determines which ones are?) - Erik Harris 19:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that someone else also follows my opinion on school link farms. (and has removed all external links from Shorin-Ryu).  Unless the website of a school contains significant information about a subject (perhaps there are good descriptions of all of the kata in an art) then adding it as a link is just advertising for the school.  The only  exceptions would be sizable national/international organizations (particularly those that hold tournaments or competitions) and a school run by the founder or the current "head of the art".  I'm even more against using schools as references, but we're limited in our reference material.  -- Medains 08:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link farm pages 

message: Slightly related to Link Farms but please take a look at Wong Shun Leung.  I put a couple of tags in but they were promptly tossed and ignored.  The whole page screams of fanboy gone amok which is a shame since the subject appears worth covering.Peter Rehse 08:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wong Shun Leung]]

message: I have been working on this article (Waster) for some time, and now think it might be in need of some other people's edits. It is not done (feel welcome to contribute!) so I have not added it to a proper 'peer review' request. However, I invite you to make any changes you think worthwhile, or just leave a note or two on the talk page about what you think. Thanks! --Xiliquiern 04:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Waster]] Review

message: I need someone to translate the following paragraphs into a smooth English equivalent. I pretty much know what they mean, but I am not qualified to translate them properly:
:鸡刀镰 - 属奇门兵械。俗称"梱花腰子"。为心意拳门器械之一。相传为形意拳创始人姬隆豐所创，长二尺六寸余，金属制 成，由镰身和镰柄组成，镰身包括鸡嘴、鸡冠、镰刃、镰脊；镰柄有镰格、镰首。技法有钩、拉、帶、挎、掛、啄 、纏等，以近战为主。套路有单练和对练。
(This is for my Chicken Sickles page).
----------------------------------------------------------------
:如刘殿琛在其所著《形意拳术抉微》中云：“形意拳术一门为最合军用，盖该拳为岳武穆所发明。”然而，多数著作在述及岳飞或者周侗创心意时，均持谨慎态度，冠以“相传”二字。
and
:二曰“心意拳为岳飞所创”。此说最早见于文字的是曹继武的“十法摘要”。曹氏云：“惟此六合拳者则出自宋朝岳武穆王。嗣后金元明数代，鲜有其技，至明末清初有蒲东诸冯姬隆风先生……遍访名师，至终南山，得岳武穆王拳经。”戴龙邦承其师曹继武之说，于乾隆十五年（1750）为“六合拳”作序云：“岳飞当童子时，受业于周侗师，精通枪法，以枪为拳，立法以教将佐，名曰意拳，神妙莫测，盖从古未有之技也。”以后，便有了“心意十二形为岳飞被困牛头山时所创”之说。此说顺应了人们对清王朝统治的不满和对民族英雄岳飞的敬仰心理，因而很快地被人们所认定，并广泛地传播开来。
(These two are about Zhou Tong’s connection with Xingyi. Some of it might be added to my Zhou Tong page.) Thank you in advance to whoever does it.
(!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 23:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: Greetings everyone. I'm soliciting opinions on how best to expand a recent stub article Hard and soft (martial arts). If anyone has some input into providing sources for documenting different uses of those terms, or opinions on how the article should be formatted, it will be most appreciated. --Fire Star 火星 15:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hard and soft (martial arts)]] article 

message: This article is currently undergoing heavy revision and construction as a WP:SS type article. I know very little of the Asian, Middle Eastern, and other martial techniques dealing with swordsmanship, so some input would be very desired. Thank you! -- Xiliquiern 05:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added some summary of China and Japan, other asian countries will need some text though. -- Medains 07:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Swordsmanship]] 

message: With many thanks to Peter Rehse, who has been instrumental in assessing articles - we now have 556 assessed articles under our banner.  Most of the articles are stub class, with some in start class and a handful B class (and just one GA, no A's or FA's).
Shall we set up a "hit list" of articles to get to GA, A or even the heady heights of FA? -- Medains 09:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Next Steps 

message: Somebody nominated the Tae Jitsu article for deletion; the defender of the article mentions two organizations that give a mention about this; The World Il-Do-Kwan Federation and the The International Journal of Combat Martial Arts and Sciences.  But I don't know how credible either organization is, and would like some help.  ColourBurst 21:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also mentioned two seperate Tae Jitsu schools that describe the art as well. Just wanted to throw that in to be accurate. MasterGreenLantern 22:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: This is why having encyclopedic information on martial arts is so difficult.  Just as anyone can post anything to the web (mentioned on WP:RS), anyone can cobble together some moves and create a new martial art.  Whether or not it's sound, or offers anything new, or muddles Japanese, Korean, and Chinese terminology while claiming to be some kind of new simplified scientific approach is pretty much irrelevant.  Presumably, this system is "real."  Do we want to put ourselves in the position of deciding whether a "real" art has any actual value or not, without having seen it? -Erik Harris 16:11, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Mention in a reputable journalistic source should be a good starting point. I'm thinking Black Belt Magazine as a feature article (rather than a paid advertisement), a mention in a peer-reviewed journal or publication (encyclopedia), etc. --Scb steve 07:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed - though I would broaden this to say that there must be at least one verifiable reference to the art (reputable journalistic source or published work).  Although that reference does not necessarily have to be a) in the article yet (since the article may be a stub or work in progress) or b) in english (if a foreign language published work is available then it is notable enough).  -- Medains 09:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh, and under those guidelines, Tae Jitsu gets only 2 matches on amazon - for Tae Kwon Do books! -- Medains 09:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Tae Jitsu]] is up for deletion 

message: Before I get into a revert war in the silat article, I want to clarify something.  Is there any reason to have article titles capitalized?  I went through and fixed all of the "Pentjak Silat" and "Silat" references to not be capitalized (except at the beginning of sentences), per Wikipedia:WikiProject Martial Arts#Capitalization, but someone reverted the capitalization on the terms where they're bolded at the beginning of the article - but nowhere else.  Should those be capitalized for non-proper nouns? -Erik Harris 23:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalization? 

message: Just came across this article, it needs serious work or deleting, I've done some but the topic is so broad I thought I'd bring it here. Nate1481 14:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears to have been created to become an advertisement for "Martial Arm" (Martialarm) - the user has repeatedly added advertising links to many martial arts pages, been reprimanded for it, and continued.  I'm not sure that it adds any value to the Wooden dummy article. -- Medains 16:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The article has been renamed Martial arts equipment and substantially edited. It could do with expansion & linking but is no longer an add or pointless. Nate1481 16:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Martial arts machines]] 

message: Small point - I don't think individual articles should be in the category martial arts since it is so broad.  Untill this weekend it was effectively empty (except for a couple of lists) and of course a whole range of subdirectories.  I will return it to that form.Peter Rehse 00:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, individual articles should be in subcategories (Martial arts of china, martial arts of japan, martial arts equipment, martial arts techniques and so on) - we should perhaps come to some agreement about the structure of categories.  Anyone want to give a starter for 10? -- Medains 09:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Category Martial Arts

message: :Category:Muslim Martial Arts seriously!  What the hell?  What's next?  Xtian MA?--D-Boy 16:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You have to go to to category rename.  HACA was not xtian.  There's nothing xtian.  Xtianity is about peace and love.  Not kill your neighbor with a broad sword.  Maybe all the Japanese martial arts should be all called Buddhist martial arts.  Maybe we should have a category called martial arts origin by religion?  It's absurd.--D-Boy 08:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure about the usefulness of this category.  It's not "Martial arts with muslim founders" or "Martial arts originating in muslim culture", it seems more "martial arts which have little link to muslim beliefs yet have significant figures in their history who are muslim".   If there was some significance to the link of muslim faith to martial art (such and such created X within a framework based on Y and Z from muslim belief) then it would be a good category.  "Martial Arts of the Middle East" would be a better category (though that's not actually whats covered here) - the Muslim Chinese martial arts article forms a better link to the relevant articles, though I'm worried that it is a bit of original research and thus not suitable as an article.  Do we categorise any other martial arts against the faith of the founder?  (Shaolin springs to mind, but that's more about the place than the faith) -- Medains 10:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A category called 'Christian karate' would be next as I keep seeing adds for them around. Would a broader 'religion related MA' or something be better? Nate1481 11:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Muslim Martial Arts]] 

message: Could use some help trying to keep this article neutral, thanks! --Mista-X 03:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Taken care of.  Edited for NPOV, and references provided for other statements. --Marty Goldberg 19:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Leung Ting]] Controversy