Talk:HM Revenue and Customs

message: I feel you should include the latest story about this body's failure to secure £25 billion (equivalent to the entire UK annual Housing Benefit bill) from large corporations, whilst hounding small businesses for money they do not owe.   The Taxpayers appear to have been duped into believing it is somehow essential for the government to make thousands of them homeless by making savage cuts to benefits, when all that was required to balance the books was for a few of the upper echelons at HMRC to perform the duties they are paid to.79.70.237.168 (talk) 23:58, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Latest Scandal

message: HMRC are disputing the facts about the deals with big business.  If a section on this was included, we could only report on the accusation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.40.152.129 (talk) 20:02, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Still in progress...

message: Address is 1 Parliament Street, rather than 100.  The building is double-fronted, with HMRC working mostly from the 1 Parliament Street side and HM Treasury working from the 1 Horse Guards Parade side. Chris talk back 01:30, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No - the address was 1 Parliament Street from Autumn 2004 to Spring 2005, until the House of Commons pointed out it already had a building the other side of the road with the same address, at which point the address was changed to 100 Parliament Street. --Henrygb 12:23, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Address

message: Saying that HMRC has become more efficient under Lean is factually inaccurate. In fact, union bosses have published many internal documents showing how productivity has actually gone down. Maybe not the most reliable source, but in any case i've cleaned up that section to present only the facts. RomBurns 20:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lean

message: Travelling through ports and airports recently, I see that customs officers are still wearing the same uniforms, with the same rank markings, as were current before the merger. Does anyone know if the rank structure has remained the same? Is any change planned? Is the old rank template at Template:UK Customs rank insignia suitable for inclusion on this page? Timothy Titus Talk To TT 20:56, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: don't know which merger you mean, but to the best of my knowledge HMRC no longer employs uniformed staff at all, as the UK Border Agency took on their port of entry functions. ninety:one 21:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I came through Heathrow again last month (August 2008) and counted 8 customs officers in old style HMRC uniforms. This was after I had passed through the immigration control with the UK Border Agency officers in their own (totally different) uniform. Same thing at the Spain/Gibraltar border in July. I may be missing something here, but it would be good if someone could clarify. Timothy Titus Talk To TT 09:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

text: ... 9,000 warranted officers operating in local communities, at the border and across 135 countries worldwide, with wide ranging search, seizure and detention powers.  Over the next four months 1,000 frontline staff will be conferred with both immigration and customs powers and staff in England and Wales will be equipped with police-like powers as set out in the UK Borders Act 2007. A full merger will follow new legislation presented to the House in the autumn.
So 
# the 9 to 10 thousand law enforecemnt officers work nationally, not just at borders
# the merger is incomplete.  
What a full merger means, I don't know: will the merged agency collect import duty and VAT, or will it still be HMRC (Treasury not Home Office), or both?  Did HMRC ever search or arrest suspected smugglers, do they now, and will they after the full merger? Yes, yes and yes - and they do not need to involve the police to do so (logical since Customs in various names pre-dates the creation of the police)90.218.116.220 (talk) 23:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Customs ranks 

message: Government documents normally refer to the agency as HM Revenue and Customs.  Shouldn't we do the same?  This avoids the need to rapidly move the page, should a male monarch accede to the throne. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 11:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, even their logo states HM rather than the full title. It makes sense to do this and maybe define HM in the article itself. It would put it in line with Royal Naval vessels, as they are entered in Wikipedia (quite correctly) as HMS only. Xtrememachineuk (talk) 08:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Infact, all other articles seem to have 'Her Majesty' instead of HM, but I agree this is better. ninety:one 19:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Seems a little over-worried, considering that without some extremely unexpected events, there'll only be one such change in the next few decades, as Charles -> William won't need any altering. Sports ground names change much more rapidly, and Wikipedia can cope with that, so I'm sure it could cope with changing one word once in umpteen years! Not that I'm agitating for a change back; it just seems to be a little over-reacting. 81.159.57.7 (talk) 02:41, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Good find - nothing is simple! It sounds like Parliament screwed up (but I suspect that detail will be forgotten by the civil service when HM Queen passes on, and HMRC will unceremoniously change its name.) Let's continue to treat the department like ships, and in this case leave the article title as 'HM' with the opening words as "Her Majesty's".  Let's try to remember not to change that phrase on the accession of Charles/William! --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 11:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  His Majesty? 

message: HMRC is not required to maintain a register of all taxpayers. The link which supports this does not evidence this either. There is no pro actively maintained register of taxpayers. For example, income tax payers are required to notify their own chargeability. There is work done by the Valuation Office Agency to maintain details of properties for the purpose of council tax, but this is a different matter. Removed the reference to maintaining a list.  Big80sFan (talk) 16:17, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Departmental responsibilities 

message: HMRC is defined in the opening sentence as a "non-ministerial department", yet we are told several paragraphs in that "The Treasury Minister with oversight of HMRC is the Financial Secretary to the Treasury". Isn't it in fact an executive agency of HM Treasury?
BTW, the entire category of "non-ministerial department" (for the UK) is highly questionable. The Forestry Commission, for instance, reports to DEFRA, the Government Actuary's Department is controlled by the Treasury, and so on. If anyone is interested, and well-informed, could something be done about reviewing this category and (as I suspect will be necessary) eventually eliminating it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.76.82.45 (talk) 08:08, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Non-Ministerial Department"? 

message: The article states that there are around £78K employees.  I know that HMRC is massively downsizing through natural wastage and I'm 90% sure this figure is now out dated.  Needs someone to look on the HMRC or NAO website to find the proper number.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.125.8.125 (talk) 16:58, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of employees 

message: Just because it is legislated for in the act, does not mean that the welsh language title is required in the lead of this article and in the infobox. This is a UK wide department, this is the English language wikipedia. The welsh name is not notable enough for the lead and infobox. BritishWatcher (talk) 11:17, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Have to disagree with this one, HMRC is officially bilingual and operates a Welsh-language service, with many HMRC documents in Welsh with the Welsh logo. Many Welsh taxpayers choose only to deal with the agency in Welsh, including over the phone. The Welsh title is every bit as valid as the English one, especially if we follow the convention referred to above, which suggests official titles should be used. Thom2002 (talk) 11:30, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Many departments or government agencies are able to provide services in welsh too, it does not justify inclusion of welsh on all UK wide government departments and agencies. BritishWatcher (talk) 11:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  If they have an official Welsh-langauge 'personality' on a par with their English-language 'personality', I would argue that it does. Thom2002 (talk) 11:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is the English language wikipedia. the native language of the United Kingdom is English. Just because legislation provides for a welsh spelling does not justify giving it undue weight and giving it equal status with the english language name which is what happens by putting it in both the infobox and first sentence in that way. BritishWatcher (talk) 11:41, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

text: Having alternate names in different languages is not prohibited. As this department has an official name in Welsh, and functions in Welsh, there is nothing wrong with it being mentioned in the lede. No different than articles about Canadian government agencies or Canadian subjects having the french name shown. Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Canada Border Services Agency are two off the top of my head that come to mind.--Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎   16:40, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  French and English is of equal status in Canada, that may be the case of Welsh and English in Wales, but not throughout the United Kingdom. BritishWatcher (talk) 19:06, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see what the wider status of Welsh outside of taxation has to do with inclusion of the alternate title in the lead about a tax organisation? Even if it was Magic Pixie Language, we would still include it if the organisation had an official Pixie personality, many pixies chose to deal with it in Magic Pixy Language, all tax forms were available in the Pixie tongue and there was a special Magic Pixie version of the website, despite the fact that the UK Gov as a whole does not recognise Pixie Language. Thom2002 (talk) 19:21, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Can't see any strong reason to not include it. (Though I noticed that there is -no- Welsh article on HM R&C...) In reality, what harm does it do? But then I am an inclusionist. And what are you talking about Thom2002? Everyone knows Welsh IS a Magic Pixie Language... :P --Τασουλα (talk) 20:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welsh title 

message: Immediate disclosure: I work in HMRC's digital team.
'''
There's plenty of more recent information on HMRC available. The most up-to-date information is on GOV.UK (not the older HMRC website) - see http://gov.uk/hmrc
In particular HMRC's annual report and accounts for 2012/13 has information relevant to the Performance section
Of course - this is the official information from HMRC. Alternative sources are available!
RobinRileyHMRC (talk) 10:21, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for posting this Robin. The trouble is finding the time to wade through that and update these pages. We are all unpaid volunteers. You can't edit the article yourself as you have a conflict of interest but perhaps you could post here any factual points that you think are inaccurate and we could then verify them and change the article? Philafrenzy (talk) 13:27, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

text: Hi , and welcome to Wikipedia! As  notes, as soon as someone gets around to it, someone'll get around to it. If you fancy helping, editing yourself may not be the best plan, but if you suggest changes here and add  to your suggestion, someone'll come and have a look and make the changes for you. There're more details on doing this at Template:Request edit/COIinstructions. —me_and 15:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plenty more recent information available... 

message: Supposedly voice recognition, sends you anywhere. And then puts you on hold for ages(now 15 minutes). Hence, NEVER call them (they charge 9p per minute on land line, 40p on mobile.) They don't have a published e-mail address either. Always send a letter. 178.78.75.150 (talk) 14:21, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: So what? kashmiri TALK 17:44, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rubbish Telephone System 

message: There's been quite a bit of editing of the organisation's name. HMRC is unlike other Departments in that it was created by primary legislation, the Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005. The name is also created by this legislation, which reads, "The Commissioners and the officers of Revenue and Customs may together be referred to as Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs." Presumably, something will be done in due course to change this. Until that is done, the official name remains, "Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs." Other organisations work differently, so this will not apply to all organisations. Thom2002 (talk) 10:50, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Support - There is no mention of the name changing from Her to His on the gov.uk site or any other reliable source I can find, and as you mention, the name is set by legislation. GrandWeb (talk) 08:27, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

text: Maybe it's worth adding something about the naming and legislation to the article itself so it is explained why the name hasn't been updated? GrandWeb (talk) 09:49, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @GrandWeb I suspect its unlikely that anyone will confirm the name change until after the funeral (Monday 19th). it would be better to try to at least semi protect the page until then ... Thom2002 (talk) 12:17, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that sourced item from Cameron Scott would do the trick. The Times likely checked it out. Sounds like the Interpretation Act could be used to read 'her' as 'his' in the legislation. Regardless, its a reliable source so I will change it over, thanks for finding it. Thom2002 (talk) 18:56, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  His or Her Majesty 

message: Department name has CHANGED. Now known as His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs after the death of Queen Elizabeth. Margeor21 (talk) 15:08, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. See above, there is no consensus to change the name. Please provide reliable sources. DigitalChutney (talk) 15:51, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say the semi-protected is still worthwhile as users are editing and reverting without reading the talk page to discuss GrandWeb (talk) 08:27, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2022