Talk:Kinomichi

message: It should be made clearer if this is a sperate art to aikido - and how it differs.  Right now the impression is that it is just another  independent aikido organization.Peter Rehse 11:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not a martial art even if it is an art in the tradition of budō. I practice it now even if I am a beginner. It is a separate art to aikido. Kinomichis (talk) 17:37, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Difference from aikido

message: Dear Peter,
I am getting a bit more easy with Wiki ways so I can answer you now on this discussion thread. 
I have done the citations you suggested and changed some wording. As for the difference between Aikido and Kinomichi, it is obvious when practiced but it is difficult to put in words what we share and do not share. I tried to say what we do and not what we or others do not do. 
It will take a few days to put it right. The main thing is not to offend any one's feelings. That is why drawing a line between these two related arts is difficult. An encyclopedia article has to be precise but with arts wich have a universal purpose, it is not easy to limit them within definitions.
Rendez-vous in a few days. Thanks again for your comments.
Jisso 09:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corrections 

message: A fairly large portion of the text consists of flowery language with little actual content. These kind of descriptions are appropriate in a book an the art, but the encyclopaedia should focus on facts. I have tried to boil parts of the text down to the actual facts, while other sections still need much work. In doing this, I have probably entered some errors which I hope others can correct. The concent of the article is unfocused and maybe not written with the fact in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, nothing else. // habj 12:47, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do agree to a certain point to your position. What bothers me is that:1/ we are talking of an oriental Way which may need a certain way of writing to convey its specific taste. 2/ only facts do not speak so well of arts and traditions3/ if this is to be an universal tool for all of us, should we all be only concerned with an Anglo-saxon way of doing? What I mean is that this text refers to other texts. Example: "That which is said today annuls that which belonged to the past, and what is written now is erased in the face of the art that pierces through the moment to come" refers to a text of Jigoro Kano founder of Judo, this text was published by Stanley Pranin's Aiki news/Aiki journal.The art "that pierces through the moment to come" refers to a sutra of Houei Neng/Eno in which he talks of the "let happen the light of the coming instant". These words talk of other masters and of other ways of conceiving time, texts and living arts. I thought that it might be interesting to put some oriental way of saying in a text about oriental arts and traditions. Some may find it odd or strange. Why would it feel otherwise? Are we going to end up giving an "acceptable taste to the world"? Is it the aim of Wikipedia?I believe this might be an odd discussion. I may love odd things!!! But any way, please do it your way, hoping it helps the reader to understand. But then, what reader are you aiming at? I am not sure people practicing kinomichi will recognise a text only conveying facts and not the spirit of their art or their tradition. Jisso 14:28, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just to help with the discussion, habj wrote: the encyclopaedia should focus on facts [...] The content of the article is unfocused and maybe not written with the fact in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, nothing else. One can read in the article on encyclopedia in Wikipedia : an encyclopedia treats each subject in more depth [than a dictionary] and conveys the most relevant accumulated knowledge on that subject or discipline, given the overall length of the particular work. An encyclopedia also often includes many maps and illustrations, as well as bibliography and statistics. Historically, both encyclopedias and dictionaries have been researched and written by well-educated, well-informed content experts.Facts are not the main aim of encyclopedias. Knowledge is not only about facts. Budo is not only facts. It is not only techniques, not only method. It has to do with the Way, the Do or Tao. Anyhow, please improve this article. Jisso 18:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  General content 

message: The article contains no information on what in martial arts is called techniques. Does it contain ikkyo nikkyo sankyo kotegaeshi from aikido, or something else? Or, are techniques only defined from the concept of ki, not the physical manifestation thereof? 
I removed "grappling" from the martial arts infobox (which I think should not be there in the first place). Or do people actually crawl on top of each other in kinomichi, trying to create chokes, arm bars, throws etc? // habj 14:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right. It does not belong to "grappling".Techniques do come from akido and are derived from Ikkyo >> Ichi, Nikyo >> Nichi, etc. Shiho Nage >> Iten, Kote Kaeshi >> Niten, etc.The section on techniques should be changed, it needs a bit more time. We do practice some times with people from aikido. The best way to distinguish Kinomichi is to practice it. Wikipedia is really not a dojo so it is indeed difficult to give the taste of it.Still, technique is a word that orientates the understanding of the art in a way that does not say how people see their art in Japan, in China, etc. In a world were one understands ki as an every day fact, what is seen in the West as "technique" is there seen as though "The technique consists of conducting ki: borrowing, directing and restoring the ki". That is the answer a master gave me in Japan to the question: "How do you train your strength?" Confucius taught "principles for life" to help men to be better and  princes to rule better. He did not teach government techniques. We are talking of something we must respect to the point of acknowledging the strangeness in the encounter.To train, we use our body but not only our body. The dojo is still the best place to understand budo ways. I hope this helps (?). :-) Jisso 15:49, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Indeed, I did not read that and kinomichi does use throwing and joint-locking. Please do to the best. I do not wish to stop any modification as this text was first written in French and has to undergo a process to meet the English way of explaining. I just wanted to point out that although my way of explaining may seem awkward, I would like the reader to feel a taste of kinomichi, of budo, of the Way. Please change as much as you wish but lets take care for the taste of the art. Jisso 18:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Techniques in kinomichi 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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