Talk:Tarantella

message: This atricle deserves a MAJOR rewrite, as it is pathetically small in size and content.
Here are some links to begin with:
* http://www.apuliadomus.com/apulia/eng/a_ita_musica.htm
* http://www.alessandrabelloni.com/tarantata.php
* The phenomenon of the "Tarantismo" (translated with BabelFish)
* Some photos
* http://refene.com/text/elekon-t/elekon-t-grecia.htm (in Greek)
See also: Ghetonia
Etz Haim 17:48, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It was me, and I have reverted with a minor change to make it more clear that the whole entire thing is legend.  Neither wolf spiders' nor tarantulas' bites are dangerous, no spiders cause hallucinogenic effects, and dancing has no effect on any kind of venom, hallucinogenic or otherwise. Tuf-Kat 03:16, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)
The text is now much worse than the previous version. What are the sources for these claims?
Some theorize that the frantic dance was a means of purging the body of the spider's poison and thus avert [turning into a werewolf].  Whatever the species, its bite was said to cause hallucinogenic effects which were warded off by the performance of the dance.  In some versions of the legend, the venom itself caused the dancer to move uncontrollably.  In any case, neither the wolf spider nor tarantulas have dangerous bites, so there is no need to dance to ward off any ill effects.  There are no arachnids known to have hallucinogenic venom.
Nothing that I've ever seen has said anything about hallucinogenic effects of the venom -- probably because this term originated in the LSD era. The idea that spider bites can turn people into werewolves has no basis in the legends about werewolves that I have heard before. Is this a recent idea? Or is there actually an early source that somebody can quote.  
Unless somebody can supply citations this part needs to be scrapped. It is not even true to say that no tarantulas have dangerous bites. None of the bites are known to be deadly, but there are some bites that can be quite serious and should be treated by an M.D. and might even require hospital care. P0M 03:40, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Oi! How's this for fatuous fakelore: Another origin leans on a legend of a woman who was depressed and frustrated from the subordinate lifestyle would fall into a trance that could only be cured by music and dance. Don't "Subordinate lifestyle' just have that ring of authenticity, though? I was going to note Rossini's tarantella from Soirées musicales ("La Danza"), but reading the article I sense that only its refrain is apropos: "Mamma mia, mamma mia, la la LA la-la lalala" --Wetman 09:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: How to de-stub

message: The current article is remarkably lacking in documentation, particularly in regard to the history of its origins.  From the name of the dance and the general folklore surrounding the dance it seems that there was very likely an early association between the dance and the large local wolf spiders. From the fact that wolf spiders are generally very frightened of human beings and will avoid them at all costs, and the fact that there are actually no severe medical consequences of bites from these spiders when humans sometimes contrive to get a defensive bite, it seems clear that the alleged bites must have served as an excuse for dancing. For one reason or another, people wanted to dance, and they explained their desire or need to dance by alleging that a spider bite incident had occurred.  But even reasoning things out this way stands pretty much as "original research" in the sense that I have not bothered to look up John Compton's explanation in his 1952 book on spiders, and his account is by his own admission not grounded on much more than hearsay.  To really know how the dancing and the spiders became associated, one would have to consult the works of specialists on medieval folk customs. If there are pertinent works they are probably in Italian.  Are there encyclopedias of folk dance? I've taken out the more wildly spedulative materials.  The idea that there was an actual toxin involved in the compulsion to dance that was mistaken for the results of spider envenomation is interesting, but it would be even more difficult to prove. P0M 19:18, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needed improvements 

message: The New Harvard Dictionary of Music (1986) says specifically that the origin of the name "tarantella" is NOT from the spider.  "A folk dance of southern Italy that takes its name from the town of Taranto (not, as is often said, from the tarantula or from a dance to cure its bite)."
Quod Felix (talk) 00:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added some sources to the article. Hopefully this is clarified now. Hyacinth (talk) 04:20, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Italian wiki says otherwise. Besides, in Italy it is primarily a music form, then a dance form.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.90.142.38 (talk) 00:52, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccurate information: etymology 

message: "The Tarantella is a southern Italian dance, its name coming from the town of Taranto, where it originated." 
"The first dance originated in Naples and spread next to Apulia, Basilicata and Calabria." Clearly, we have a problem here: if the Tarantella came from Naples, how can it originate from Taranto, and how can we resolve this contradiction?Rex Imperator (talk) 15:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. First, tarantella is not a single musical form, or dance, but it groups several different forms, in different tempos and with different origins (tammuriata, pizzica etc are all forms of tarantella).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.90.142.38 (talk) 00:54, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: The article says that the rhythms, melodies, gestures and accompanying songs of the tarantella are quite distinct, but fails to say anything about them except that the tarantella is "upbeat". A Liszt tarantella in 6/8 or 2/4 time is mentioned, but what exactly is the rhythm of the folk dance?  Marshall46 (talk) 16:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorted.  But there remains a contradiction between the "upbeat tempo" and the Toschi citation which describes it as "stately".  Marshall46 (talk) 06:57, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Some musical information, please

message: "The term "tarantella" originally referred to an exorcism ritual that existed in Greece around the year 2000 BC and was connected to the gods Dionysus and Apollo". No. First of all, we couldn't even say this much about a Minoan ritual of 1300 BC. The date is the giveaway. The inventor of this fakelore couldn't even come up with a believable date range.--Wetman (talk) 00:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wholly improbable 

message: Bit of an edit war here, one person thinks culture is bigger than (classical music), another thinks that only what they like is notable. I love classical music, but there is more to the world than that. I do note that neither the classical music citations nor the other cultural fields have citations. People, where are sources. Also, Tarantella is alive and well and flourishing, there is no mention of the extensive New Tarantella Music coming out of Italy. If I had time... Brunswicknic (talk) 13:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  BS: "Classical music is notable, video games [literature, film, manga/anime] are not 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An editor has seen fit to restore numerous uncited items to the set of lists attached to this article. Lists are to some extent deprecated by the MOS, though not entirely forbidden. The deprecation is well justified: lists attract uncited cruft, and I in fact reverted one such addition before hunting out refs for a dozen of the existing uncited items a day or two ago. A list (or indeed, as here, a list of lists) is no substitute for serious analysis of a subject supported by reliable secondary sources, which in the case of Tarantella should be scholarly texts on the history of dance and of music.
I hope we can agree on three points which in most circumstances on Wikipedia would be taken as obvious: 
* that an article about a serious dance and music topic should not be dominated by appearances in popular culture. 
* that even if we wished to have an extensive list section inside a non-list article, they should be fully cited to reliable sources. 
I would also point out that Wikipedia policy allows any editor to remove uncited materials, especially trivia, from any article at any time. As it happens, I took great care only to remove claims where a search failed to find any usable sources. However, the WP:ONUS of proof of inclusion rests on the editor including the material, not on everybody else who wish the article to contain only reliably cited materials.  
The recent claim in an edit comment "A WP link is sufficient for most media" is false for two reasons: 
1) For the avoidance of doubt, a blue link to an existing article is NOT verification of notability, as Wikipedia is not itself a reliable source, and indeed many of the linked articles contain no usable citations for the claims made (that a tarantella appeared in such-and-such a work). 
2) In addition, on a related point the editor claimed "books and film and other PUBLISHED media do not need an additional citation source, since the media itself (book, film, etc.) IS the source." That is true ONLY for evidence that the book or film EXISTS, (and even for that, many editors other than me do not accept it as sufficient), but the mere existence of a book or film is, obviously, not proof that the book or film actually contains a tarantella, for which a reliable secondary source is required as usual.
I suggest therefore that we clean up these lists, removing all uncited trivia.
In the mean time, the "refimprove" tag is more than justified, and I am astonished that any editor should think to remove it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:20, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Uncited lists and unciteable trivia

message: Whatever the arguments about citations, it is totally unacceptable for an article to consist more than 50% of a list of lists. I've therefore moved the list to a list article and linked it with a "main" link here. I note that the same rules from the MOS apply to list articles as to any others. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:37, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It wasn't a List of Lists, it was just a List, and only a partial one at that. But it grew out of a stub and has now evolved from a short list of "notable" tarantellas, in which any editor could decide (as you and others have done) on a whim of subjective preference what constitutes notability, to a REAL official wp list designed with the new goal (as all wp Lists have) to be as complete as possible. I like lists and I like completeness; thank you for the split, let's all of us start adding to it to make it a great list for every wp viewer's ultimate reference! Chuckstreet (talk) 17:17, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Overburdened article

message: Why is there a navigation bar for Greek Dances? Shouldn't that be Italian Dances? Others have cited the supposed origins of tarantella as Greek to be fakelore. The tarantella is known as an Italian folk dance; there should be a navbar for it. Chuckstreet (talk) 19:09, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek but not Italian? 

message: Not a huge deal, but the dance rhythm is a full 24 beats - four 6/8 measures. The final note in the rhythm diagram should be a dotted half note, not dotted quarter note. Sammyjava (talk) 18:34, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  rhythm should end on dotted half, not dotted quarter