Talk:Lead-acid battery

message: For the cell to be non spontaneous in the "charging" direction as written, converting lead sulfate to lead oxide and lead metal, both half reactions as drawn should have negative cell potentials.  if you flip the sign on the reaction shown so the potentials are -1.685 for lead sulfate --> lead oxide and -0.356 for lead sulfate --> lead, you get a full cell potential of -2.041 volts when charging.  reverse them to show the discharge reaction, you'd get +2.041 volts when discharging indicating spontaneous reaction.  this matches reality.  as written, with the lead acetate --> lead oxide reaction as a positive potential,this page shows the charging reaction to be spontaneous with a potential of 1.329 V.66.155.211.158 (talk) 15:18, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally agree, reverse the sign. While discharging, it should read -1.69V as its written on the page. 110.174.244.121 (talk) 02:59, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Sign on half cell potential for lead oxide reaction wrong

message: Sungel has batteries that are supposed to last 1,500 cycles. Here's a link: http://www.batteryenergy.com.au/downloads/3.1.6.10%20Sungel%20deep%20discharge%20cycle%20life.pdf  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.245.87.5 (talk) 23:25, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: There are some batteries that last longer than 800 cycles

message: Hey, my professor recently showed us the anode half reaction for this battery and SO4-, according to him, is supposed to be HSO4-, which deprotonates into SO4 2- and H+ with 2 electrons given up.  This makes much more sense, since SO4 2- is the correct form of sulfate, and lead would rather have a 2+ oxidation anyway.  It's an image, so i don't know how to fix it.
I believe you are correct.  The reactions given in this article are appropriate to dilute battery acid.  At the high concentrations of sulfuric acid in an actual battery, the reactions should involve HSO4- at each electrode.  The voltages given may be correct, since they seem to add up to about the correct value. Sandman42 74.192.217.168 13:55, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to me somewhat usual for chemist to ignore details like this.  In some cases, one needs the reaction mechanism, explicitly stating each step of a multiple step reaction.  For example, it is usual to write reactions with H+ instead of the more correct H3O+ hydronium ion, because everyone knows what it means.  In solution, there will be an equilibrium between, sulfate, bisulfate, and unionized sulfuric acid, along with some other forms.  (I believe there is also equilibrium with pyrosulfate, too, especially in concentrated sulfuric acid.)  With all the ions in solution, it is usual not to worry about this distinction, but instead describe the overall reaction. Gah4 (talk) 23:59, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anode's reaction may be false! 

message: —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.84.26.184 (talk) 02:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recycling PBA Effective?

message: Can somebody give a list of how PBAs are charged? (unsigned comment from anon)
BCI would have this information.
I'd love to see some sort of introduction to rechargable batteries for the hobbiest.  Of the common types (PbA, NiMH, NiCd, & Li+), I'm not sure which is the easiest to charge - i.e., most resilient to 'dumb' charging from a solar cell, generator, etc. (Unsigned comment by 70.23.244.12.  02:58, 17 August 2006, UTC)
:Some of that information is in the  Rechargeable battery page (which is hurting for more information and a good review at the moment).  Of course, Wikipedia is not an instruction manual, but I imagine quite a bit more could be said on that page.  For your own edification, there are battery charging ICs that you can buy that take care of safely charging many different chemistries for under 10 bucks.  The 'dumbest' batteries are indeed lead acids (in my experience), while the newer batteries need more complex control circuitry (like the Lithiums that are always exploding in laptops).  But you do need to be careful designing charging circuitry for any chemistry.  (Please remember to sign your talk pages).  Matt B. 23:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no such organisation as the battery university.  That site exists and is run by one Isador Buchmann in order to promote his largely discredited book.  That site has also been discredited. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 12:30, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to charge PBAs 

message: I'm going to get started on cleaning up some of the existing sections of this article.  However, it seems to me that Gel Battery, Absorbent glass mat and VRLA would fit much better into a "Types of Lead-Acid Batteries" subsection here. I'm going to add  tags to each of the articles, but I would imagine discussion would be most helpful here since it should be an all-or-nothing kind of thing -- it wouldn't be very productive if just one article moved :). Matt B. 11:29, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the way I worded it makes it sound like they are three different types.  More precisely, I would imagine that Gel Battery and AGM would be subtopics of VRLA, which would be in a section under types of lead acid batteries (along with the old-fashioned wet version).  I suppose theoretically you could make a Gel or AGM battery that isn't valve regulated, but I've never heard of such a beast (nor could I fathom a rationale for doing so).  Matt B. 23:17, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Merges 

message: In the Enviromental Cleanup Section:
The article mentions that new versions of recycling are needed to cut down on polution. Does anyone know exactly how poluting current Recycling programs are?
Also, that whole section doesn't sound very professional.
"Effective Lead pollution control system is a necessity for sustainable environment. There is a continuous improvement in battery recycling plants and furnace designs for greater efficiencies. These recycling plants are ecology friendly as they follow all emission standards for lead smelters, but new methods should be devised or alternatives developed to the lead-acid battery so that lead pollution can be reduced to an essentially negligible amount."
Sounds alittle one-sided...
--203.214.113.65 06:19, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How effective are recycling programs? 

message: I was a battery design engineer and we had even number plate designs as did every US Manufacturer.
:Then I wouldn't like to buy one of your batteries.  Every battery I have come across (US and the rest of the world) has an odd number of plates.  Wtshymanski was spot on above with the reason.   I believe that perhaps he should have gone the extra mile and put the reason in the article. 86.179.167.116 (talk) 17:00, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Even number of plates 

message: Each cell contains (in the charged state) electrodes of lead metal (Pb) and lead (IV) oxide (PbO2) in an electrolyte
seems like it would make more sense as:
.. contains in the charged state, electrodes of lead metal (Pb) and in an electrolyte, lead IV oxide (PbO2) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by T boyd (talk • contribs) 22:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  weird wording (electochemistry) 

message: I have added a section on the problem of exploding batteries to address the issues already raised. I work in forensic engineering, and dealt with a recent problem where a mechanic lost an eye through lifting an old battery from a car. I am posting the section because it is an unusual hazard that users should know about so as to prevent possible future problems. Peterlewis 16:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Exploding Batteries

message: I want to know What is the Quantity of Lead in the lead Acid Battery?
203.199.41.18 12:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lead content is probably in the range of 95% or more. Lead is used for both the positive and negative plates and the interconnection conductor bars and the battery terminals. The only non-lead components are the battery case, water, and acid. The plastic or glass battery case is quite thick though, since it has to be structurally strong enough to not rip apart or shatter when picked up. DMahalko (talk) 21:37, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article quotes the Linden handbook as saying an automotive lead-acid battery is about 60% lead by weight.  You couldn't make it 95%, you need electrolyte and a case. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:44, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is the quantity of Lead in a Lead-Acid Battery? 

message: What is the density of Lead-acid batteries (kg/m^3 or whatever).  I'm guessing about (11+2)/2  = 6.5 kg/L but wondering if anyone has real data? --Jaded-view 01:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The energy density and energy/size measures suggest a range of 1500 - 2500kg/m^3. -- answering my own question.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaded-view (talk • contribs) 16:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Density 

message: I think a typo crept into the article under the heading "electrochemistry." Flooded cells typically require the highest charging voltages, gel cells the lowest, AGM somewhere in between. The float values are listed backwards in the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.88.83.21 (talk) 05:51, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Float voltages 

message: I am surpised, having studied this phenomena in several batteries, and it is worth emphasising for reasons of consumer safety. If you have a problem with public safety, please air your concerns here and desist reverting without discussion Peterlewis (talk) 13:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Surprising explosions

message: I don't know much about batteries so can someone with a better understanding of the problem go over this article about a supposedly revolutionary new generation of lead-acid batteries and update Wikipedia accordingly? Thank you. 24.83.176.171 (talk) 11:42, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  CSIRO's UltraBattery 

message: Don't sulfate ions migrate through the wires unless countermeasures are taken?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.203.58.1 (talk) 18:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sulfate Ions 

message: Is there another image? The current image better belongs to the VRLA article. 76.66.193.69 (talk) 12:15, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: is the one I just added better?Traveler100 (talk) 17:12, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  picture 

message: This reads like a novel.
Battery "progress" is ongoing and a continuous process. There are no "current attempts"
Furthermore there is no such thing as a nickel-manganese battery, if there is i'd like to get some, they should be much cheaper and more friendly than NiCd/NiMH.
reverted back to my edit on july 5th, language may be coarse but the difference is critical.
I would like to point out that the original change from ni-mh to nickle-manganese about a year ago was also dubious, and has no reference.
Unit cost of nickel is a mute point, it may be 10 times more expensive than lead, but its mass is 1/4 and furthermore the ratio of active material to total plate mass, there is no comparison. NiCd is expensive for just about every reason from the case, to the electrolyte to the cadmium, not the high price of nickel, also note that wikipedia doesn't have a $/Wh listed for NiCd  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.178.85.76 (talk) 23:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Environmental concerns 

message: Why are there only reactions for the recharging of the battery but not the spontaneous reactions which produce voltages (i.e. the actual function of the battery)? I think there should be both.--Welcome to the dark side. (talk) 23:28, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  REACTIONS 

message: Could we get some science on the additives before putting them back in the article? There are lots of Web stories on the level of  getting another few starts from a "dead" motorcycle battery with EDTA, but no-one has done any real science. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:43, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Additives

message: The more concentrated the sulphuric is, the lower it's freezing point. The sulphuric is the depressant.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.47.178 (talk) 06:56, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The statement says that as the battery discharges, the sulphuric acid concentration decreases (i.e. less depressant), and the electrolyte  freezing point increases. I think this is correct. Jojalozzo 03:52, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Freezing point depression, error

message: Article is semi-locked so I can not edit it, but I want the correct information out there (I work for a company that makes float chargers).
Section 2, Voltages for Common Usages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery#Voltages_for_common_usages
Continuous-preservation (float) charging: 13.4 V for gelled electrolyte; 13.5 V for AGM (absorbed glass mat) and 13.8 V for flooded cells
Should read:
Continuous-preservation (float) charging: 13.05 V for gelled electrolyte; 13.4 V for flooded cells and 13.6 V for AGM (absorbed glass mat).
These are the industry standard voltages.  The presently listed voltages are much to high for gel and flooded, people may damage their batteries if they use them.
Thank You  — Preceding unsigned comment added by HonestGeniusAcumen (talk • contribs) 19:59, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have made the changes you requested.  Do you have suitable sources (references) for these figures so they can be added as in-line citations to allow independent verification of the new voltages?  If you do, please provide them here on the Talk page so we can add them to the article.  Thanks. Dolphin (t) 10:01, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoa there. A new user comes here and makes unsourced statements. References should be checked before any changes are made to the page. The previous state of the page was the current consensus and it should remain that way until properly sourced references have been verified. HumphreyW (talk) 10:47, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

text: Show your verifiable and reliable secondary sources please. HumphreyW (talk) 00:07, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead-Acid Battery Float Voltages Incorrect 

message: The text "can range from 2.67 V to almost 3 V.[13] (only until a charge current is flowing)
is meaningless. To raise the voltage to Equalization levels requires considerable current,
so the phrase "only until a charge current is flowing" makes no sense at all.
119.18.14.136 (talk) 15:58, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Equalization Voltage 

message: I've noticed two problems in that section of the article. First, I don't recall both plates are constructed using paste, but only the positive ones (and using directly  lead dioxide, not tetroxide), although it might be the technology is changed from that what I remember. The other is that although it is mentioned that grid is made from lead alloys with calcium, antimony, etc. it is not specified when it is alloyed with which metal; from what I can recall, calcium alloys are better for starter batteries, antimony for deep cycling (IIRC, perhaps it's vice versa.) I might be able to dig that information up, but my sources might be outdated and I have none in English, so it would be nice if someone else finds about that... Arny (talk) 17:13, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Both plates are constructed from paste.  The idea is that the paste is porous and allows the electrolyte to contact a much greater surface area of active material.  There would be no point in just making the positive plate this way if the same were not done to the negative.  The capacity would be determined by the total available effective surface area of the smaller plate. 109.156.49.202 (talk) 17:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plates construction 

message: Well, i propose to modification of the following line:
"Minimize corrosion by coating with a suitable rubber or plastic spray or using a commercially available product."
To:
"Corrosion in battery's terminals can be efficiently mitigated by coating them with common vaseline paste, plastic spray or using a commercially available product."
Sources: Well it's old and common practice used by many repair shops at least in Spain, France, and Italy.
NB: Vaseline == Petroleum jelly.
Xelinium (talk) 23:54, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Xelinium, 7 March 2011 

message: Picture of SLA with top cover off, showing that SLAs are in reality VRLAs, something not mentioned in the article. (SLA is the most widely used term for VRLAs.))
Tabby (talk) 11:18, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  'SLA' 

message: In the paragraph 'Initial Charge' under the title 'Electrochemistry' there is a mistake with one of the words.
The sentence The process is driven by the forcible removal of electrons from the cathode and the forcible introduction of them to the cathode. is very contradictory.
The first 'cathode' (in bold) should be changed to 'anode'. This is because electrons are removed from the cathode, not the anode. It occurs in redox reactions, where the oxidation and reduction can be remembered through 'Oil Rig'. Oxidation is loss, Reduction is gain.
The anode experiences oxidation, and the cathode experiences reduction.
Therefore the sentence should be corrected to:
The process is driven by the forcible removal of electrons from the anode and the forcible introduction of them to the cathode.
Regards,
Stefan
FWIW, Stefan, when I wrote that it was in a little larger context, which has been whittled away. The "forcible" was meant to explain the reversal. I kept the anode/cathode terminology constant for the battery, which was temporarily reversed during recharging.
Riventree (talk) 23:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Crazymonkey1123 (Jacob) T or M/Sign mine 21:55, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 211.30.7.90, 14 May 2011 

message: There seems to be a discrepancy between the open-circuit voltages given
for a battery at full discharge:
Under "Voltages for common usages" it is 11.8 V to 12.0 V at 20 deg C
(and this is confirmed by http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/batfaq.htm which mentions 11.89 V at
about 70 deg F)
But in the graph under "Measuring the charge level", full discharge (0%) is given as 10.5 V
while 11.8 V corresponds to about 40% charge.
Keep Well, CBLZA (talk) 12:46, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't get this.   I've discharged 12v lead-acid batteries to less than 6v at room temperature, and if discharged long enough, I'm sure it could get down close to zero.   If you can read a voltage, then there must be at least a minute amount of charge left in order to get a voltage reading.   Note the article states an "approximate" charge capacity also.--96.244.247.130 (talk) 02:25, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it is true that you can discharge a battery to 0v as you have discovered.  However, if you repeatedly do this you risk damaging the battery.    An individual cell should not be discharged below 1.8v in order to avoid irreversable effects in the chemistry.  For a 6 cell battery, this works out at 10.8v, but as the 1.8v figure is rounded, the minimum voltage is regarded as 10.5v.  Most rechargeable chemistries have a minimum voltage beyond which they should not be discharged.  The only exception that leaps to mind is the Nickel-Cadmium cell which can be discharged to 0v (but not reversed). 109.156.49.202 (talk) 16:58, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discrepancy in Voltages 

message: Under the section marked as "=== Initial Charge ===", the cathodic reaction (as given) is not correct.
Instead of:
:Cathode Reaction: (s) + 2(l) → (s) + 2(aq) + 2
it should be:
:Cathode Reaction: (s) + 2(l) → (s) + 4(aq) + 4
The lead oxide formed is "lead(IV) oxide" (correctly written in the formula, but incorrectly written in the text above, where it appears as "lead (II) oxide" (also, it is conventional to have no space between the metal symbol and the oxidation state given in roman numerals, hence I suggest replacing the existing text "lead (II) oxide" with "lead(IV) oxide" and not "lead (IV) oxide"
As for a source, any chemistry textbook would support the formation of a lead(IV) oxide electrode over a lead(II) oxide electrode in the lead/acid battery. However, whatever the case, the way the section is written presently is self-contradictory!
This is the first time I've tried to request editing so apologies if I've missed something :)
Capacitorial (talk) 11:42, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have unprotected the article so that it can be freely edited now.  Please feel free to make these changes to the article.  -- Ed (Edgar181) 11:49, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Capacitorial, 4 August 2011 

message: The text says "Open-circuit at full discharge: 11.8 V to 12.0 V"
But the picture below (the graph) shows that a fully discharged battery has around 10.5V open-circuit voltage.
Which one is right? Or did I misunderstand something?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.114.198 (talk) 11:09, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Open circuit discharged battery voltage: discrepancy between graph and text 

message: The description of electron flow in the section "Electrochemistry" is backwards. Electrons flow from negative to positive. This is fundamental knowledge.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.32.192.35 (talk) 19:17, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct.  You could have corrected the article yourself.  I have added something to both sentences just to clarrify that it is the external circuit that is being referred to. 86.144.90.137 (talk) 14:34, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Electron Flow 

message: The modern battery case for the lead acid automotive is one of the most reliable designs imaginable. It is also simple and efficient in design and in electrical power delivery capability. It is worthy of considerable discussion as to its evolutionary changes in construction into the modern molded polypropylene battery case and in the design of its electrical circuit and battery terminal connections. None of this is mentioned in the article about the battery. The question Why?WFPM (talk) 17:35, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Because you haven't had time to write it up for us yet? WP:BOLD. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:25, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

text: Because I don't have any references. And I'm always getting shot down for lack of references. When I'm interested in ideas, I steal them from where I can find them. And I've never worked on Lead acid batteries, but just bought them and admired their ideas. In the case of battery designs, I've had to make part function and failure mode analysis, so I know about the details of analysis. But as to the details and history of the evolution of the lead acid battery case design I know very little. And unfortunately, I'm not a reliable witness vis a vis the details that I know about. How's that for a catch 22?WFPM (talk) 22:32, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've often thought it was a great pity that they burned all the books in the world after the Internet came along. It's made referencing Wikipedia much more difficult, though admittedly few other drawbacks have been encountered. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:45, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

text: It's just that we don't realize that we're  making history as we move along and we don't feel that it's incumbent on us to document it. You get a better feel of that if you change careers and find that you're behind and need to study to catch up. And I have changed careers several times. And if you change languages you also have to work on changing your vocabulary. I understand people that keep diaries, but I don't feel important enough to want to do that. But I appreciate other peoples efforts to document ideas about things. And I certainly appreciate scientists, like Isaac  Asimov, who said that his goal was to help and even goad people to learn about things and stimulate their imagination. He  was only 6 years older than me, and it's too bad he's not still around to give us scientific knowledge help. And he had a marvelous reference system as well as almost total recall. His book "Atom" was published 6 months after his death in 1992. Most of our memories are faulty, and get distorted with time, so admittedly they're not reliable as references.WFPM (talk) 17:10, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll try and find some references but various materials have been used for battery cases, including lead-lined wood, glass and celluloid.  Celluloid is a bit dodgy because it is flammable and is  attacked by sulphuric acid with a specific gravity above 1.2. Biscuittin (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead acid battery case development

message: There is a field of information related to cycles. It says 500 - 800 cycles. It should be 50 - 80 cycles. Here is some link from people dealing alot with batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/lead_based_batteries . And make some difference between starter batteries and deep cycle batteries.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.33.129.54 (talk) 10:19, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but batteryuniversity and particularly the guy who runs it, Isidor Buchmann, are completely discredited sources.  Much of what appears on that site just does not agree with real world batteries.  In any case it is a self published source and thus unacceptable. I B Wright (talk) 16:50, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: What you say may be correct, but the fact remains that the 500-800 cycle claim requires a supporting reference. 109.152.145.19 (talk) 17:39, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

text: There are several discussions on batteryuniversity.com on the talk pages of some of the other rechargeable battery types.  The concensus is that batteryuniversity is an unreliable source.  In any case, it is not an acceptable source of referencing because it is a self published source.  That is: the author of that website has published the information unsupported by any reputable authoritative body.  Although the site appears to be supported by Cadex Int., that does not count as the CEO of Cadex is the same individual who has published batteryuniversity, one Isidor Buchmann.  86.151.114.31 (talk) 14:24, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Petersfield UK, are you serious? Your opinion, the opinion of one person, a consensus? Are you sufficiently qualified to argue one way or the other? References do not create truth. Tell us why we should believe you.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Papahadeda (talk • contribs) 23:26, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Regardless of anything, the reason batteryuniversity is unreliable is given above in that it is a self published source.  Wikipedia does not allow self published sources.  If it did, you or I could publish a web page claiming anything we liked and then use it to support that claim in an article.  Further a study of the web site reveals that it is also a self confessed form of blog which is not allowed.  There is consensus among users elsewhere that batteryuniversity is an unreliable source and it is currently being considered for black listing.  DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 13:50, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: ... and is now blacklisted. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 17:29, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

text: Please sign your posts.  See WP:RS, WP:VERIFY and WP:SELFPUB for starters.  A website of the type discussed above would require to have the backing of a reliable supporting third party authority on the subject being discussed.  Batteryuniversity has no such backing.  109.149.178.192 (talk) 17:34, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discharge cycles 

message: Article claims that the various voltages for certain conditions have to be adjusted by a temperature coefficient of so many volts per degree celcius (no problem).  The claim specifies that the adjustment applies only to 6 cell batteries.  An individual cell has no intelligence to know how many other cells there are in the battery. I believe that if the figure is correct (it is unreferenced), it will apply to any battery.  109.149.156.101 (talk) 13:28, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  They somply took a 6-cell adjustment and failed to divide by 6.  (It should be −4 or −3.9 mV/°C.)  I'll try to track down a reference.  Thanks for flagging it in the article! 71.41.210.146 (talk) 18:22, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: See discussion about the temperature coefficient at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Automotive_battery#Terminal_voltage Chris goulet (talk) 05:49, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{anchor|dubious}}Dubious claim in article 

message: I'm removing this parenthetical remark: 
:("deep cycle" does not imply the battery can be discharged more deeply than a flat-plate battery; this is a widespread misunderstanding of the term).
It is not helpful since it does not tell what "deep cycle" means instead. All information that I can find points to the fact that DC batteries are more suitable for repeated deep discharges than starter batteries. I can only guess what was meant by this statement; maybe that neither starter batteries nor DC batteries can be discharged deeper than 0% ?
Han-Kwang (t) 14:27, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deep-cycle "does not imply the battery can be discharged more deeply"? 

message: I removed this template because the section is clearly not even remotely a set of instructions.  Apparently this is controversial.  Before putting it back, please explain how this section is a set of instructions!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.208.75.118 (talk) 01:07, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Pay particular attention to the sentences that address the reader as "you". The paragraphs before that are also just lightly rephrased instructions. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 01:22, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Howto template from Absorbed glass mat 

message: The article needs to address the usual industry standards like "OpzS" and "OpzV". http://www.batterysupplies.be/en/products/opzs-opzv-0 http://www.harrisbattery.com/applications/residential-renewable-energy --BjKa (talk) 11:14, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  OpzS 

message: Both the positive and negative plates are made from lead, and initially during manufacturing, there is no reactive difference between the plates like in other batteries such as zinc / carbon. The reactive difference seems to be introduced during the initial charge known as forming.
So apparently if you take a discharged lead-acid battery in good condition, and connect it to a charger backwards, is it possible to cross the fully neutralized charge potential and reverse the polarity of the plates? Since the plates normally soften and become spongy when discharged, they will likely be extremely fragile by forcing a full discharge like this, before crossing the center and recharging in the opposite direction.
If this is not possible, what is it in the chemistry or cell construction that prevents reversing the charge polarity? -- DMahalko (talk) 16:10, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Google says yes. The question was asked in the 1920 Chilton's Motor Age and has continued to be asked up through Q&A sites like Quora and Snpoes. So we might mention the fact briefly in the article. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:03, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

text: When I was young (1960's), my dad had a collection of Popular Science magazines.  Sometimes I would read older ones, and especially the Gus Wilson stories.  My favorite was Gus and the Backward Battery, where someone with a completely dead battery connects the jumper cables wrong.  In the end, the article does say that the battery doesn't survive, though. (This is the days before alternators.) Gah4 (talk) 00:28, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can the charge polarity be reversed? 

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message: See Talk:Automotive battery#lead acid battery voltage vs temperature. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:48, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  lead acid battery voltage vs temperature 

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message: An old trick may revive batteries found too cold to function. Rumored revival by short circuiting drew rebuke from a battery manufacturer's rep. Another engineer present corrected the rep. by describing a remote installation with a stock 150 Amp circuit-breaker poised to provide the required short-circuit function. The breaker would trip to indicate the battery was ready. Jeffreagan (talk) 23:34, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Short circuiting to revive frozen cells 

message: By "electro-motive force" or emf, I mean the potential difference between the terminals when there is nothing connecting them. This cannot be measured directly but by measuring the current that passes for each of a set of resistors of known resistance we can extrapolate to infinite resistance. This number (in Volts) and the internal resistance (in Ohms) describe the battery completely.
As a battery discharges the current, hence the power, it can deliver through the starter motor drops. It is easy to understand that the internal resistance increases, which accounts for that. However the emf also falls and his is hard to understand. We learn in physical chemistry course that the emf of a cell depends on potential differences at the atomic level. If that is so we would expect the emf to remain the same until last sulphate ion had been deposited on the plate leaving pure water. But the elementary physical chemistry coures cannot give us the whole truth.
It would be helpful to have estimates of the current (sometimes called CCA) delivered by a typical starter motor and the internal resistance. The CCA quoted on a commercial battery is hundred of amps, suggesting that, if the starter motor need a kilowatt or so, the internal resistance is a few milliohms. These figures are interesting because they are unusual and I think that the article would gain from the correct numbers.
Bukovets (talk) 14:00, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The discussion of cold cranking amps is probably better set at the Car battery article.  You cannot characterize a battery completely by a fixed EMF and resistance, since a battery is in no sense an ideal voltage source, nor does it have a fixed resistance - *everything* varies with time, temperature, rate of discharge, history...they are not simply characterized. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:39, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  1. Electromotive force drops as a lead-acid battery discharges 2. Numbers please. 

message: The emf of a cell depends solely on the properties of atoms and ions involved in the reaction driving it. What is the emf of a lead/sulphuric acid/lead-dioxide cell and why is the emf of a car battery not always six times this quantity. It is no answer to say that there are "other factors". hat are these factors and how do they affect the emf?
Bukovets (talk) 16:41, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Battery chemistry in detail is complex beyond my understanding.  My first-year textbook spends about a page on batteries, but there are whole shelves full of books representing generations of work in the field. But even a first-year text mentions temperature and concentrations of the reactants as being influences on the terminal voltage and both of these vary in real applications.  You may have had the misfortune of trying to start an automobile that has been left outdoors in -35 C for a weekend...the nominal "12" volt system is notably less, then. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:01, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: In the article Nernst equation I did feel a twinge of suspicion when I came to the word "easily". But what I get from it is the key variable is the difference in the concentration between the half cells, or the reaction quotient. I'm probably not helping. Sorry. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:18, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  EMF 

message: I am most grateful to the two people who responded to my ignorant comment. I had completely forgotten the Nernst equation.
Bukovets (talk) 15:28, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This is (most of) the fun of working on articles here. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:07, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thanks 

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