Talk:Bel canto

message: This page is heavily linked to in Wikipedia, and lacks a clear summary definition. The current summary jumps right into the details of every and all interpretations, and so does the rest of the content. It's clear that there are several definitions of the term. They do have an overlap and this overlap should be given in the summary. The it.wiki page does this successfully by opening with a simple:
 It's defined as ... a style of virtuoso singing characterized by a homogeneous movement from lower to higher notes, agile ornaments and phrasing and seeing human voice as a musical instrument.
I suggest a consensus general definition be found that accommodates all tastes, and be put in the summary. At the current state, the page just spells details on so many different interpretations that no useful explanation is available out of it. The page really deserves it, especially given its weight on Wikipedia.--Mijio (talk) 22:12, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Call for summary

message: This is just meaningless nitpicking, but would "soprani" be correct for two women?  If you're going to use the Italian plural form, then shouldn't you also use Italian gender agreement, and call them "soprane"?  Or is there precedent for "soprani" that I couldn't find? --The Amazing Superking 06:08, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: The current meaning of the term "belcanto" is a big historiographical mistake. I have no time to translate. If somebody here knows Italian language, see my article at :it:Belcanto. Thanks --Al Pereira(talk) 03:08, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please, see it.wiki 

message: The original photo accompanying this article was of Virginia Zeani (b. 1925) - Virginia_Zeani.jpg. That photo has disappeared. There is a  copy(in gif format) accompanying the article on Zeani. It is a studio portrait with a very dubious copyright tag. "This image is ineligible for copyright and therefore is in the public domain, because it consists entirely of information that is common property and contains no original authorship." It has no further information about the photographer or date of publication. The photo was clearly taken after 1923 and by a professional photographer. To be on the safe side, I did not use this as a replacement, and have instead added a PD photo of Mathilde Marchesi, a bel canto teacher, listed in the references. Voceditenore 16:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Photograph

message: Would Victoria de los Angeles also be regarded as a practitioner - like Caballe?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.217.172.37 (talk) 21:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: Bel canto and attempts to recreate it figure into Thomas Disch's novel On Wings of Song.  I have no idea how historically accurate it is.  I had thought (due to having read that novel many years ago) that one of bel canto's defining characteristics was the vocal sound of male castrato singers, which is why the style died out.  It's not mentioned in this article though. 67.117.145.149 (talk) 05:59, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disch novel 

message: Hi!
I'd like to suggest that the text can be enriched with quotations, preferably historical ones (!); since this can give better insight into the views of people on this topic. A great resource for finding such quotations is archive.org or books.google.com. Let me give two example, that I've just located:
*Bel-canto not a school of sensuously pretty voice-production.The singing of the future (1907, c1905), p.16; David Ffrangcon Davies     [...]      It has come to be a generally recognised thing that voice, pure and simple, by its very composition, or "placing", interferes with the organs of speech; making it impossible for a vocalist to preserve absolute purity of pronunciation in song as well as in speech. It is because of this view that the principle of "vocalising" words, instead of musically saying them, crept in, to the detriment of vocal art. This false position is due to the idea that the "Arte del bel-canto" encouraged mere sensuous beauty of voice, rather than truth of expressionThe singing of the future (1907, c1905), p.16; David Ffrangcon Davies.   – David Ffrangcon Davies: The singing of the future (1907, c1905)
* "Bel-canto" (of which we read so much) meant, and means, versatility of tone; if a man wish to be called an artist, his voice must become the instrument of intelligent imagination. Perhaps there would be fewer cases of vocal-specialising if the modern craze for "voice-production" (apart from linguistic truth) could be reduced. This wondrous pursuit is, as things stand, a notable instance of putting the cart before the horse. Voices are "produced" and "placed" in such wise that pupils are trained to "vocalise" (to use technical jargon) the words; i.e., they are taught to make a sound which is indeed something like but is not the word in its purity. "Tone" or sound is what the average student seeks, ab initio and not verbal purity. Hence the monotony of modern singing. When one hears an average singer in one role, one hears him in all.The singing of the future (1907, c1905), p.14; David Ffrangcon Davies  – David Ffrangcon Davies: The singing of the future (1907, c1905)
The above quotations, for example, immediately make it clear that Bel Canto is about culture and expression, and that this should be regarded as the basis for technical-vocal aspects. (Bel Canto is thus not some technical hocus pocus:) that makes singing suddenly beautiful or meaningful.) The quotation also makes clear, that Bel Canto is often misunderstood, or misinterpreted. Bel beller (talk) 22:19, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotations 

message: This is really meaningless without some sound clips.  How is bel canto really different in sound from opera, or from the way a pop singer like Celine Dion sings?  Without sound clips, it's hard to figure out what is being discussed here.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skysong263 (talk • contribs) 19:21, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you even read the very first sentence of this article or any part of the article at all? The very first sentence states "Bel Canto is an Italian opera term." It's very obvious from the text that bel canto is a term used to describe a kind of singing used specifically within opera/classical music. Further, given the debate over the term's definition over several centuries I doubt recordings could help much here (particuarly since some writers have argued that true bel canto singing disappeared after the mid 19th century which was before the advent of recording technology). Further, good recordings of 20th century/contemporary artists singing works from the bel canto literature are all copyrighted. Short 8-12 second clips could be added under fair use, but I don't think such limited clips would be useful as an illustration of the bel canto style.4meter4 (talk) 15:44, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with 4meter4 85.178.208.14 (talk) 10:42, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  sound clips needed 

message: I've tagged this page as needing a revision for NPOV, with particular reference to section 1.3 Bel canto and its detractors. Describing an aesthetic choice as "hectoring", for example, is a little too impassioned perhaps! The purpose of the article is to inform, not (necessarily) to persuade. EmpressEcho (talk) 13:06, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagged for neutrality check