Talk:AMX International AMX

message: a little more effort to AMX stuff.
Here the avionic in AMX, as described in the former version, thank to A.Nativi article in August 1993:
Sensors:
*Radar:ELTA EL/M-2001B, under the name of FIAR PM-2500, only range-finder radar system, reliability and efficience in european theatre was not to satisfied (bo be fair).
*Altimeter radar (unknow model)
*RWR, unknow model. Two antenna on the top of the tail, forward and posterior
*ECM Elettronica ELT-156, two conical, vertical antennas behind the cockpit and under the belly
*Chaff/Flare dispensers
Com/Nav:
*INS Littion LN-39
*SHARS (Secondary Attitude and Heading Reference System) LISA-2000
*Radar altimeter (already considered above)
*TACAN TCN-118
*Air data computer
*GPS(initially only as provision for accomodate it)
*V/UHF SRT-651
*IFF SIT-241 solid-state 
*Provision for a JTDS
External Sensors:
*Recon set 1: LLDS, Low Level Day Subsystems, with 2 KA-60C cameras, vertical, and another one in obliqual position. Useful for 30-1,200 m heights, 180° couverture with vertical cameras, 40 with the oblique
*Recon set 2: STOS, STand Off Subsistem, vertical or obliques cameras Zeiss TRb 60/25, 610 mm focal, for long range shots
*Recon set 3: PHSD, Photoplaimetric Subsystem, a special cartographi machine with 150, 210 300 mm objectives, 30x30 miles form 3,000 m altitude with 150 mm. Existed also a TV system for the pilot
All these systems were built by Aeroelettronica, and all where fittable inside the bay under the fuselage (AMX, together with A-5, is the only tactical fighter with a bay, also air-conditioned, actually used for pilot's travel bags). But all these systems were developed in a too long time, with several problems, and at the end they were considered obsoletes. Instead of them, AMX had the huge and heavy Orpheus pod, with four cameras and an IR system, 700 kg total, capable both day and night recon.
Weights: 6,700 kg empty-9,600 internal fuel-11,000 with 6 Mk 82, 13,000 kg max, 3,600-3,950 kg max ext. loads, Wingload 400-619 kg/m2. Engine 5,106 kg at Sea Level, t/w ratio: 0,4-0,5. APU=yes
Dimensions: Wingspan 8,874 m+AIM tip, 9,968 m. 13,23 lenght, heigth, 4,576 m, wings sup 21 m2, tail span 5,2m, width, carriage, 2,15 m, carriage pace 4,74, wing lenght ratio 3,75.
Performances:
0,9 mach (max theorical), 972 km/h clean, cruise speed: 0.65-0,7 mach, stall around 100 knots, landing and take off around 125 knots.
Climb: 9,000 m in 5 min., rate climb 3,120 m/min, optimal climb speed 320 knots (around 400 km/h)
Take-off distance: 470 m clean (9,600 kg), 650 at 10.750 kg, maybe 1000+ at max. load.
Landing: min 500 m.
Agility: 60 m/SEC SEP, 22°/sec at 0.45 mach, 13-14°/sec at 0,6 mach, max 20° AoA 'ufficial', in practical up to 25-27°. A turn of 180 can be performed in just over 10 secs. Max G 7,33. Roll-rate over 200°sec, in trials over 240.
Fuel: 3,250 l or 2,620 kg, while two seats have 2,100 internal. Max 2300 l esternal.
Range: this is the most controversial data available. In 1992 Aereonautica$ Difesa, in reponse to one precise reader request, gave a series of datas. Nativi, with the next article on August 1993 gave a noticeable inflated datas, so what's of the two was the right one is unclear. As these datas, (A) is for A&D, (R) for RID, the Nativi's magazine:
Ordined for range:
*lo-lo-lo: 3 Mk84 (2,700 kg)= 370 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 6 Mk 82 retarded (1,500 kg)= 410 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 4 Mk84 (3,600 kg)= 440 km(R)
*lo-lo-lo: 6 Mk 82, slick (1,360kg)= 465 km(A)
*hi-lo-lo: 3 Mk 84(2,700 kg)= 520 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 1 Mk 84(900 kg)= 555 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 6 Mk 82(1,360 kg)= 575 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 6 Mk 82+2x580 l(1,360 kg)= 650 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 2 Mk 84+2x580 l(1,800 kg)= 650 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 3 Mk 84+2x580 l(2,700 kg)= 630 km(R)
*lo-lo-lo: 2 Mk 84+2x1,100 l(1,800 kg)= 770 km(R)
*Unknown:  Orpheus recce(700 kg)= 800 km(A)
*Unknown: 2 Mk 83+ 2x1,100 l(900 kg)= 650 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 4 Mk 84 (3,600 kg)= 770 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 1 Mk 84(900 kg)= 890 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 2 Mk 84+ 2x580 l(1,800 kg)= 925 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 6 Mk 82+2x580 l(1,360 kg)=965 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 2 Mk 84+2x580 l(1,800 kg)=1,020 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 3 Mk 84+2x580 l(2,700 kg)= 1,080 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 2 Mk 84+2x1,100 l(1,800 kg)= 1,260 km(A)
*hi-lo-lo-hi: 2 Mk 84+2x1,100 l(1,800 kg)=1,350 km when tanks are dropped(A)
*Kormoran missile(650 kg)(A): 1350 km
*Unknown: 2x860 l=1,450 km(A)
*Max endurance, internal: 2600 km, with ext tanks 3,360 km or (R)3,600.
As payload/flight profile:
*lo-lo-lo: 1 Mk 84(900 kg)= 555 km(A)
*Unknown: 2 Mk 83+ 2x1,100 l(900 kg)= 650 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 6 Mk 82, slick (1,360kg)= 465 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 6 Mk 82 retarded (1,500 kg)= 410 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 6 Mk 82+2x580 l(1,360 kg)= 650 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 2 Mk 84+2x580 l(1,800 kg)= 650 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 2 Mk 84+2x1,100 l(1,800 kg)= 770 km(R)
*lo-lo-lo: 3 Mk84 (2,700 kg)= 370 km(A)
*lo-lo-lo: 3 Mk 84+2x580 l(2,700 kg)= 630 km(R)
*lo-lo-lo: 4 Mk 84 (3,600 kg)= 440 km(R)
*hi-lo-hi: 1 Mk 84(900 kg)= 890 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 6 Mk 82(1,360 kg)= 575 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 6 Mk 82+2x580 l(1,360 kg)=965 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 2 Mk 84+2x580 l(1,800 kg)= 925 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 2 Mk 84+2x580 l(1,800 kg)=1,020 km(A)
*hi-hi-hi: 2 Mk 84+2x1,100 l(1,800 kg)= 1,260 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 2 Mk 84+2x1,100 l(1,800 kg)=1,350 km when tanks are dropped(A)
*hi-lo-lo: 3 Mk 84 (2,700 kg)= 520 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 3 Mk 84+2x580 l(2,700 kg)= 1,080 km(A)
*hi-lo-hi: 4 Mk 84 (3,600 kg)= 770 km(A)
This is what i have.
Comments: 
Let's figure how these datas are not matching one with the other: 
*lo-lo missions with 3 Mk 84 is 370 km, while with 4 is 440 km??
*This latter is even greater than 6x Mk 82 retarded= 1,500 kg/410 km compared to 3,600 kg/440 km, that obviousely not matches also with 6 Mk 82/slick/465 km (1360kg compared to 3,600 kg, just think to the doubling of run take-off).
*2x580 l tanks are not well armonized as well with performances: 200 km more (not surprising, it's 1160 l more than 3200 internal) with Mk 82, began 260 km with 3 Mk 84s.
F-16C, as example, has 400 km with 4 Mk 84, 300 gal tank, 2 AIM-9, 152 m at 740 kmh, with 100 km at 925, 2 360 degrees turns (RID).
F-18 with 2,270 kg, 2 AIM-9, 2 AIM-7, ? tanks, sea level: 290 km (RID)
So let's see how the latter performances have miracolously made 'better' 10% AMX than F-16 (despite the old performances were known for many years..).--Stefanomencarelli 12:40, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Just to make

message: Does anybody know the Venezuelan squadrons equipped with the aircraft or whether they are still used? this could be included under "Operators" along with the Brazilian and Italian units. (Sapperhutch (talk) 07:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I know Venezuela never received AMXs owing to the American veto.Nigel Ish (talk) 13:46, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Venezuela under Operators? 

message: The part about AMX's operational history claims that it was used by Brazil. In fact it really was used by Italy in war, with success, but Brazil never used AMX.Agre22 (talk) 13:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Operational history has lies

message: Is there any reference for "Ghibli" being used as a name for the AMX?Nigel Ish (talk) 13:49, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ghibli? 

message: There's an unreferenced stub article on the Aermacchi MB-340 that states, "Work done on the project formed one of the bases that eventually led to the design of the AMX International AMX...". I think it might be better to have that page redirect to this one and the MB-340 information fleshed out (such as it can be!) here. Thoughts? - The Bushranger (talk) 21:04, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

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message: I do not know if this article warrants the Advertisement Tag, but the article is listing benefits as if attempting to promote itself. This is especially in the third paragraph of the introduction. Zkidwiki (talk) 22:56, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
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