Wikipedia talk:Portal/Guidelines/Archive 1a

message: What about a special Portal: namespace? The portals don't really belong in the Wikipedia: namespace, at least they should be moved to the main namespace. --grmwnr 23:11, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps a Main Page: namespace? sjorford:// 09:43, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portal: 

message: Is there anything this page should be learning from the process that has been happening at Talk:Cricket and Talk:Cricket (portal). The basic point boils down where to have portals to keep readers, editors and re-users all maximally served. Pcb21| Pete 17:13, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe there needs to be a section, down in a corner out of the way, for collaborations? So visitors can see articles in the process of being reworked (so they know things aren't stagnating) and they might even feel inspired to add to them themselves, and editors can see ones they need to help with. And yet it's not obtrusive so casual readers aren't bothered by lots of "under construction" bits. Master Thief Garrett 09:54, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most appropriate namespace for portals

message: I just got slapped on the wrist (ouch :) ) for suggesting to move the UK portal to a British Isles portal. So I wanted to read up on portals, but I can't find much information about what a portal is supposed to be. I thought it should be about broader subjects, a point of entry (or rather .... portal) to the constituent parts, with some clarification about what is what. The 'slapping' occurred on a subpage of mine (User:DirkvdM/British Isles - Clarification of Terms) in which I suggest an article about the British Isles to help people find their way in this rather messy subject. That seemed to me to be a good subject for a portal. But now I notice there are also portals for Quebec and Hong Kong. Aren't these subjects too narrow for a portal? Same for the People's Republic of China. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a portal on China (certainly a broad enough subject) which then has a link to the present situation, namely the Republic? There are portals for 6 countries, 2 smaller regions (Quebec and Hong Kong) and only 2 for larger regions (EU and Africa). Shouldn't portals be only for larger regions, or, rather, 'messy' regions that need clarification?
Now that I look at the various portals I'm confused. I assumed that the religion portal would have a list of the religions in the world (well, at least the 10 or so biggest ones plus their subdivisions). But not so. The Religion Category (how do I link that here?) hardly lists any religions (it's about things that have to do with religion) and the Religion Article mentions many, but doesn't categorise them. Hell ( :) ), it doesn't even mention calvinism, even though there is an article about it. But that's no problem, because there are portals for that sort of thing. One might think. But looking through the portals I now start wonder what they are for. I assumed that an article is about a specific subject, a category gives listings for a broader subject and a portal puts all the terms in such a broader subject into perspective (though I'm not sure in which of the latter two a thematical (as opposed to alphabetical) listing should go then). Am I missing something?
And the other question I'm stuck with now is where an overview such as the one I propose on my subpage should go. I wanted to find a clarification of the terms Britain, Great Britian, Brittannia and the British Isles, found the explanation spread over various articles and thought it a good idea to put all that information about all those related terms in one place and give a very concise explanation.  Although I must admit it has gotten a bit out of hand and I don't know where to stop with this subject. But surely there are more such 'messy' subjects (maybe confusing would be a better word). How should they be dealt with?
DirkvdM 07:07, 2005 May 2 (UTC)
:You raise many interesting (and confounding) questions. Where does a portal begin and where should it end? Mostly they just seem to exist, with no broad or agreed purpose. For instance, there are country portals aimed at editors, subject portals aimed at nothing definable and then an experimental "portal" organised by jguk created (supposedly) for readers. 
:Apart from a few comments on the Portal:Cricket, I've only been involved in the Australia Wikiportal - in fact, I created it. While I didn't specifically target any particular user, I suppose it is more useful to editors, much like regional Wikipedian notice boards. With regards to your questions on regions, Australia is fortunate in that it is a region in of itself (though, admittedly, more likely to be included in Australasia or Oceania). 
:Personally, the only questions that I see as needing to be answered are those of purpose. Are the portals targeting readers or editors or both? Once that issue has been decided, I don't suppose it matters what a portal is created for. There could very well be portal hierarchies: Regions - Countries - Subnational. Same goes for subjects. In any case, there is bound to be much overlapping.--Cyberjunkie 07:32, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Portals are like the main page, but then biased towards specific articles. -MarSch 14:57, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Seem to me like the purpose of a portal is for both Readers and Editors. For readers, it is jumping-off point for articles to explore. Categories are great, but too broad. The purpose of a portal directed at readers is to show them "Here are some of the best articles about XYZ..." Similarly, for editors, the purpose is to show them relevant topics and to include links to the projects which are ongoing within the subject. Thus, it always works as a segway between reading and editing. While exploring the portal, you find a project that needs help in a subject you're interested in. Simple enough... --Wolf530 04:10, May 3, 2005 (UTC)
I created the first portals at en: and it's definitely what I wanted them to be - they are meant to be both for readers and editors. Ausir 15:25, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What are portals for? 

message: See also: Wikipedia:Portalspace where the Portalspace is being formally proposed - the Listspace is not yet being formally proposed
This is nothing official, I'd just like to see what the general opinion is. Ausir 20:51, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have seen no discussion on lists yet and have not formed an opinion on where they should be, or whether they should be at all ;) but portals shouldn't be in article space and neither should main page anymore. A portal namespace might be a bit narrow, so perhaps there should be a Navigation namespace or some such. By the way, I thought that a namespace was nothing other than the Navigation: prefix, or User: for the user namespace. What does jguk mean below? -MarSch 15:11, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I must say I don't really know in what way a these spaces work. The only way I can see things manifesting themselves is with the talk pages. The talk page of Article is at Talk:Article; whereas the talk page of Wikipedia:Three revert rule (for example) is at Wikipedia talk:Three revert rule. The talk page of Portal:Cricket is at Talk:Portal:Cricket rather than at Portal talk:Cricket. However, I confess, I don't know if it means more than that, jguk 15:43, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Surveys|Survey]] of opinion on a separate namespace for portals and lists

message: # Ausir 20:51, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Move lists and portals to a separate namespace

message: #Cyberjunkie 05:11, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Move only portals to separate namespace, keep lists in the main namespace

message: #I'd be happy with this too. I note we can make them look like they are separate spaces already - and that it might look better if all lists started with "List:" rather than what we currently have. It would be better if there were formal Portalspaces and Listspaces, but if the developers can't quickly do that, this is a good alternative option. Finally, I note that Portalspace is likely to be less controversial than Listspace as we have so few portals and so many lists, jguk 09:26, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Keep portals and lists in the main namespace

message: #Just throwing in another possibility, (there is an example at :Category:Cetaceans. Pcb21| Pete 20:39, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Move portals to the category: namespace

message: The page has been moved, without consensus, let alone discussion, to Wikipedia:Portal from Wikipedia:Wikiportal. I am to move it back. Wikiportal is more in keeping with other initiatives throughout Wikimedia. Whilst "portal" is useful shorthand, but I oppose it's formal use without discussion.--Cyberjunkie 14:01, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I was being bold. Portal is used in many other language editions. I'm surprised that you have a problem with my move and also that you moved it back without discussing first. I don't see what the wiki adds, surely we don't talk about wikiarticles either. Wikiportal is not an initiative of Wikimedia, instead portals are something inside Wikipedia just as articles and templates. --MarSch 16:11, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

text: What about the namespace that is to be created? It is Portal: not Wikiportal: --MarSch 16:14, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Assuming the move to Wikipedia:Portal goes ahead, I trust that you will also be moving all of the Wikiportals themselves (for example, Wikipedia:Wikiportal/United Kingdom to Wikipedia:Portal/United Kingdom), changing the references to :Category:Wikiportals and correcting the cross references? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:23, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I realise it was a bold edit, but this is a project with which many are involved and of which there are consequences of any move. As ALoan has pointed out, it means that all Wikiportals must now be retitled for consistency, and approval should be sought at these individual portals. Bold edits are encouraged in context, but basic Wikiquette should always be preferred. My revert is justifiable in that I re-established the pre-existing situation, and at least I gave notice. You seem to have missed my point, also. I did not state that it was Wikimedia initiative, I stated the use of "wiki" as a prefix in initiatives is widespread throughout Wikimedia, especially within Wikipedia (read WikiProject, Wikibreak, Wikistress, Wikiquette etc.). With regards to Portal: I have made mention amongst the manifold discussion about the retention of the "wiki" prefix, but it has seemingly been lost in the speed and confusion of the issue as driven by jguk (a move I support, by and large). In any case, that is not a resolved issue, and when a resolution is reached, it will be by consensus. ;) I intend to revert again, not immediately (say, 8 hours), so that others can comment - though, the discussion should extend beyond this.--Cyberjunkie 16:48, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

text: On one hand, I'd prefer the name Wikiportal. On the other, when the portalspace is established, Portal: would be more consistant with namespaces such as Template: and Category: as opposed to Wikitemplate: and Wikicategory: Ausir 18:44, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the namespace (if created) should be consistent with the other namespaces. If the namespace is created then I'd expect that the "wiki" prefix would be dropped from "wikiportal". But this is yet to happen, and it is precisely because of consistency that this page  should remain at Wikipedia:Wikiportal until such time. I am now to revert the page to its original address. Please (!) do not move it again.--Cyberjunkie 09:58, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Page move

message: Would it be worthwhile for there to be an approval process for new portals?  It seems to me that several of the requested portals are either a) substantially duplicates of existing portals (eg African Union with Africa) b) regions of very narrow interest for which efforts on a portal might be better directed to a broader subject (eg The Simpsons, Organic gardening, speculative fiction).  It seems to me that it would be useful for there to be some kind of commenting process on proposed portals to assess whether the subject is sufficiently broad and would generate sufficient interest to warrant its own portal. Worldtraveller 17:54, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only is this sensible, but I've been a bit bold and smooshed together some of the overspecific requests into more sensible topics. Sorry if I was overzealous. Ashibaka (tock) 03:44, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: How about the requirement of a wikiproject to back it up? --MarSch 11:58, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: Not sure about that, as projects can tackle quite specific aspects of a subject.  For example, in astronomy, I definitely think there should be an astronomy portal, but none of the astronomy-related projects would be suitable for a portal in my opinion - constellations, telescopes, astronomical objects. Worldtraveller 16:48, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: they could collaborate to back this portal up --MarSch 09:30, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Approval for portals?

message: Someone has created a Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Pornography; I have mixed feelings about this, but figure that if 'twere done 'tis best 'twere done quickly well, so I created Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Pornography/Things you can do. Anyway, should we add it to this page? I think there is plenty of room for actual worthwhile encyclopedic content in this area, but I also think what we have right now is mostly one step from simply being pornography itself. -- Jmabel | Talk July 9, 2005 04:57 (UTC)
: I understand your position, but wikipedia really shouldn't be as 'clean' as many of us would like it to be. Old chinese pot drawings are not what porn is about today. The random picture of what I guess is a porn star is pretty useless though. And I do think it would be drastically better to have a sex wikiportal instead. Slike2 00:27, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What are portals for?  Is anyone really likely to make use of a pornography portal?  If portals are to be useful for navigation they've got to provide access to broad areas of content.  A 'human behaviour' or 'sex and gender' portal would be a useful thing; a pornography portal is not.  That's my opinion anyway.  Worldtraveller 00:40, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes - It sounds like a Pornography Wikiproject is more of what you may have been looking for? --Celestianpower hab 12:11, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pornoportal 

message: Is it appropriate to involve other reference-oriented wikis such as those hosted by Wikicities in a Wikiportal?   Most specifically I'd be interested in hosting one on poker if I could draw in content from PokerWiki.   Religion, mentioned above, also seems like a good topic for transwiki unification via portals since it has a functioning Wikicity too.   Seems that Wikiportals, as opposed to Wikipediaportals, would draw in other wiki info on a topic but I don't want to step on any toes. - PhilipR 15:15, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd have no problem with you using information from those external wiki's (it's all free use isn't it?), but I am very much against actually making a connection between Wikipedia and those (advertised on) sites. I think that would be spam of some sort, although I'm not fluent in Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines.I think an External links section would be close enough.Trevor macinnis 15:50, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  External wikis 

message: The article Culture of Italy has been listed to be improved on Wikipedia:This week's improvement drive. You can add your vote there if you would like to support the article.--Fenice 14:20, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement Drive

message: Now that the Existing Wikiportals list is so long, perhaps we should break it up so it's a little easier to find the one your looking for.  Even just two areas, one for interests and on for countries, would help a little --Sketchee 17:31, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
In the German Wikipedia with more than 200 Portals, we link to de:Wikipedia nach Themen which replaces "Other Wikiportals". --80.135.5.181 15:50, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to create a page modelled after the German page. The number of portals has increased beyond what can be listed in the templates, and I think a page like (Wikipedia:Browse) is needed. I'll start it at Wikipedia:Wikiportal Browse tonight. - Trevor MacInnis(Talk | Contribs) 17:41, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Right, good idea on both counts. The list on the main project page should be broken up, and the  template should be broken up too. Or at least people should have the option of using a section of ot. Check out the suggestion at Template talk:Portals and a suggested template at . Trevor MacInnis(Talk | Contribs) 00:34, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Break up the list?