Talk:Soviet westward offensive of 1918–1919

message: Indeed the article on Action Vistula (Akcja Wisła) is missing, I'll try to fix that in my free time. Note that the difference in naming was actually on purpose. Since the commies officially stated that the infamous action against the civilians and UPA soldiers in the Beskides was not a military operation but a police action. Hence the name Akcja (reserved for administrative actions) was used and not the word Operacja that belongs to military vocabulary. But this obviously OT here. Halibutt 16:43, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
:Actually, please keep in mind that there are already several redlinks to Wisla Action. Mikkalai
civil war was nearing an end. False. Nowhere near. E.g., by the end of November British (in Novorossiysk) and French (in Odessa, Sevastopol) intervention started. Siberia was in flames, &c., &c. Mikkalai 04:23, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Others "Vistula" 

message: I renamed it to "Russian westward offensive of 1918-1919", since I finally laid my hand at the book of Norman Davies and checked the references. His references are correctly described in the text in terms of dates and events, with one exception: not even a hint what could have ben (mis)interpreted as "Target Wistula". In general, I find the book well balanced, bearing in mind it was written duriong the Cold War. However it has some minor errors in some details, understandable for a non-Russian person. (E.g., in one place he ascrbies Pskov to Baltic states; I know why.) 
I thoroughly checked two main sources discussed here: 
*ДИРЕКТИВЫ ГЛАВНОГО КОМАНДОВАНИЯ КРАСНОЙ АРМИИ (1917—1920)
*ДИРЕКТИВЫ КОМАНДОВАНИЯ ФРОНТОВ КРАСНОЙ АРМИИ (1917-1922 гг.)
I understand that my article title is not the best possible, but at least it is correct. If you have any other suggestions, please let us discuss them here first. Mikkalai 02:48, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it would be interesting to find out more about Davies sources for this. IIRC he bases his analysis on the title, so it doesn't look like he invented it. But as long as we can't find a better source, I don't mind the current title (with Target Vistula redirect). Although I think we should add a note in article body that such and such codename was used by Davies. Ah, I see you thought of everything. Great. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 08:18, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked with Piłsudski's Rok 1920, but he starts his book with the first battle of Berezyna and does not mention the earlier stages. On the other hand, in the last issue of the Mówią wieki, one of Poland's most respected history journals, there is a set of essays and articles on various topics related to the P-BW and several authors mention the offensive. However, the name they used is - tadaaa! - Tarcza Wisła, which could be roughly translated as Vistula Shield or Shield Vistula. Any ideas? Halibutt 19:54, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, for startes, we can add bibliographical information from that journal to that article :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 20:16, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Page move

message: Article seems to be dealing mainly only with fighting south from Lithuania but red army also attacked countries like Estonia and Latvia at that time (Estonian Liberation War). Estonia started counter-offensive aganist red army already in january 1919 before first clashes between soviets and poles even started.--Staberinde 11:22, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Estonia and Latvia forgotten? 

message: Piotrus, we have already wasted huge amount of time on this. I personally checked Red Army documents and Lenin words for this period. There was no "Operacia Visla" or something similar in Soviet documents. Polish Encyclopedia you quote gives invalid date. Polish guy gives no references at all where he gor this word. He just as well may have heard about Operation Vistula, only had no idea which one. You cannot write encyclopedia on such shaky grounds. `'Míkka 20:53, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Per my reply at User_talk:Mikkalai#Lenin_on_November_1918: our goal is not to determine which publications and scholars have made errors and which hadn't. We have agreed that only a few publications use the "Target/Operation Vistula" codename and moved the article. The fact that one Polish encyclopedia gives the name and mentions "Lenin's order from Nov 18 1918" in connection is reliable, although the formulation of that article doesn't necessarily mean that his order mentioned such a codename: it simply states that on that day, Lenin gave an order that resulted in the Bolshevik troops moving eastward. Of course it would be not suprising if some were moving earlier, the times were quite chaotic. What do you find so controversial?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  00:29, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Our goal is to provide correct information in the first place. In the second place it must be base in reliable sources. If the source does not give any reference to the document, this information cannot be reliable. YOu even don't knoww who wrote this article.  "on that day, Lenin gave an order that resulted in the Bolshevik troops moving eastward." is plain false statement. I already wrote, but you seem to hear only yourself and I have to repeat several times:  On 18th they were already walking fast. They were slowly moving forward soon after November 5, whe Germany denounced the treaty and started packing their bags. Some text was already in the VTsIK Decree of November 13th   about Soviet denouncing of the Brest Treaty. It definitely has some paragraph about establishing Soviet power in German-occupied areas. I remember something about German Soldier Councils  (Soviets) of Deputies cooperating with local Worker's and Peasants' Councils of Deputies, but I cannot get hold on the original text now.  `'Míkka 00:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wisla again 

message: I am somewhat unsure that the outcome may be descrived as "defeat", which word is associated with total failure which was certainly not: Bolsheviks did expand for significant amount beyont they were squeezed. In any case, any judgement of the outcome must be based on solid refences. Marting, please provide them. - 7-bubёn >t 16:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Until we have a solid source for the scope of the offensive, we won't have a representation of defeat or victory here. --Erikupoeg (talk) 22:17, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outcome 

message: Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted.
Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia.
This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link.
If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting.
If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page.
If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta.
When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags.
The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true.
Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
*http://www.whiteforce.newmail.ru/chbelmec.htm
*:Triggered by \bnewmail\.ru\b on the global blacklist
If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II NotifyOnline 17:13, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Soviet westward offensive of 1918–19. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://portalwiedzy.onet.pl/60350,,,,operacja_wisla,haslo.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 18:06, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Vilna, Lida, Baranowicze and Luninets is a mixture.Xx236 (talk) 10:36, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which names of towns should be used?