Talk:Succession to the Monegasque throne

message: Question: If Albert II dies without a legit son would the throne go to Caroline or Andrea, considering Andrea is the next male heir?
:Caroline would become the Princess, of course. Surtsicna (talk) 09:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: I suppose you are right - he can do whatever he wants !
I believe that in a situation as with the children of Princess Stephanie, it would be most likely that the children would use the citizenship of the parent who is of a higher rank, this being Princess Stephanie. However it is possible that they have dual citizenship. ((Cooldoug111 02:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality 

message: I am watching the enthronement ceremony on TF1. They say it seems that there are doubts about the presence of Princess Alexandra in the list of succession because she is protestant. Catholicism is a state religion in Monaco.Hektor 09:43, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, Monaco's constitution simply requires that successors to the throne be legitimately descended from the reigning Sovereign or be one of his/her dynastic siblings, or a legitimate descendant thereof. "Legitimately" means born of parents who, either at the time of or subsequent to their child's birth, have been lawfully married to one another -- neither having been legally married to another at the time of that birth. Legitimacy of children in no way depends upon the parents' marriage having been conducted or recognized by the Roman Catholic (or any other) church: civil marriage is sufficient (and, in Monaco, required) to  determine a child's legitimacy dynastically. FactStraight (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

text: No, if the parents were lawfully married but that marriage was terminated prior to the child's birth, then the child is not legitimate, and can only be legitimised by the parents' lawful re-marriage to one another subsequently. This marriage, termination of marriage and re-marriage with children born after the second marriage has happened in reigning dynasties at least twice: 1.The 1632 elopement of the widower Gaston, Duke of Orleans, younger brother of Louis XIII, with Princess Marguerite of Lorraine, was nullified by order of the King, who only relented and authorized the lovers to re-wed on his deathbead in 1643. 2.The 1779 marriage to a woman of the lower French nobility, Elisabeth Magon de Boisgarin, of Prince Eugenio of Savoy-Carignan, Count of Villafranca was dissolved by the Parlement of Brittany at the behest of his father, a cousin of the King of Sardinia, head of the House of Savoy, who likewise relented and allowed the couple to re-marry; otherwise Guiseppe di Savoia-Villafranca, known as the Chevalier de Savoy who was later de-morganatized and made a prince and HRH, would have been a bastard. Nor is the child legitimate if the parents were married only in a religious ceremony, unless the wedding took place in a jurisdiction (such as the UK, US, but not Monaco, France or Germany) which does not require a civil marriage in addition to (or instead of) religious nuptials. FactStraight (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

text: No, Jazmin's mother's marriage was not legally and finally dissolved by divorce until 8 days after the birth of Albert II's daughter Jazmin (six months after the US court granted a divorce by decree nisi). Since it is irrelevant to legitimacy of birth in Monaco whether a lawful marriage is also religiously valid, it does not matter that Jazmin's mother and first husband were not married by the RC church. But it does matter that the marriage was still valid when Jazmin was born. While it is true that canon law does not acknowledge a Roman Catholic's dissolved civil marriage to have been valid for purposes of re-marriage within the RC Church (that's why Felipe, Prince of Asturias was able to canonically marry the civilly married and divorced Letizia Ortiz), but what is applicable here is Monegasque law -- not Vatican law. FactStraight (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Princess Alexandra of Hanover]]

message: How could Elisabeth-Anne de Massy have been in line to the throne, if her parents were not married?  User:Zoe|(talk) 00:41, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  That should probably be made clear.  I'll try to do that.  User:Zoe|(talk) 18:39, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Elisabeth-Anne de Massy]]

message: It seems someone should explain the historical and possible present treaty issues.  There was some issue as to who could inherit the thrown without the country reverting to France under treaty.--CSvBibra 01:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: French Treaty Issues

message: I read here that Charlotte is fourth in line, but the page says the fourth is Alexandra (and Charlatte is note named at all in the page). Why?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.202.113.10 (talk) 11:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charlotte Casiraghi 

message: Today at the broadcast from the wedding someone on the Dutch television explained who the people in the line of succesion were. He said that princess Alexandra is higher in the line than her brother Andrea because her father has a higher rank than his father. He said that she is the second in line after her mother.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.168.31.172 (talk) 18:26, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  princess Alexandra 

message: Jazmin Grace Grimaldi Would be eligible for the throne if Prince Albert ever married her mother as she, like the  others, is considered illegitimate.  Tamara was divorced at the time.
The idea that he will marry Tamara isn't likely though, especially now being married to Charlene.
Besides the fact that there is nothing in the laws and constitution of Monaco stating that an offspring of an affair cannot inherit the throne. If that were the case, then the Casiraghis would be excluded permanently as their mother was married prior to the marriage with Stefano, and the marriage wasn't annulled until after Stefano's death, in 1992.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MTracy2011 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No. A person born to parents who were not married to each other at the time of birth does not have any Monegasque succession rights unless legitimised by his or her parents' subsequent marriage, which is possible only if the child was not born adulterously (article 227 of the Monegasque Civil Code states: "Les enfants nés hors mariage, autres que les enfants adultérins, sont légitimés par le mariage subséquent de leurs père et mère, lorsque ceux-ci les ont légalement reconnus avant leur mariage ou qu'ils les reconnaissent au moment de la célébration." while art. 229 states: "Les enfants légitimés par le mariage subséquent auront les mêmes droits que s'ils étaient nés de ce mariage"). Louis Ducruet and Pauline Ducruet as well as Sasha Casiraghi have been legitimised by their parents' subsequent marriages. FactStraight (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

text: Please stop shouting. The article does not say and no one has suggested that Roman Catholic canon or any other religious requirements are applicable to Monaco's succession, which is entirely secular. Therefore, the prior marriages of Princesses Caroline and Stephanie are not relevant to their children's eligibility to inherit Monaco's throne: only their mothers' marital status at the time of or subsequent to the birth of their children matters and whether or not any of their children was born adulterously. Monaco's Constitution, Article 10:La succession au Trône, ouverte par suite de décès ou d'abdication, s'opère dans la descendance directe et légitime du Prince régnant, par ordre de primogéniture avec priorité masculine au même degré de parenté. "Legitimate" is used yet not defined in Monaco's Constitution, but is defined in Monaco's Civil Code, which is why children whose parents' marry subsequent to their birth may be retroactively legitimised -- the Civil Code specifies that this is so. However, that Civil Code also imposes a restriction: the child may only be legitimated by subsequent marriage if neither parent was legally married at the time of the child's birth. This is not a new definition or restriction on the concept of legitimacy, but is as old as the Code Napoleon, and is a secular, not a canonical restriction. Albert's eldest known child was apparently conceived while the mother was separated from her husband. After she became pregnant, she initiated a divorce which was not contested by her then-husband, and was granted by a San Diego court. However, a decree nisi was issued, meaning that the divorce did not come into legal effect for six months. Six months after the court's official ruling was eight days after Jazmin Grimaldi was born. Although the mother's husband never claimed that the child born during the marriage was his, the child was born while her mother was married to someone other than her father. The relevant divorce decree is a matter of public record and is easily verified, although the newspaper publication of it has been expunged from Wikipedia when Wikipedia's article on the mother was deleted. FactStraight (talk) 04:08, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Princess Carolines's marriage to Philippe Junot was dissolved legally. After that she married her second husband Stephano Cassiraghi. The children of that marriage are legitimate when it comes to the succession to the throne. The RC church has no competence in these matters. Jazmin Grace is at this point not entitled to succeed nor will she ever be. Not even when the reigning Prince will marry her mother. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 22:35, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jazmin Grace Grimaldi 

message: Is there any actual sources refering to Andrea's son as Alexander?  All sources that I've seen have called him Sacha, as does Andrea's page. Psunshine87 (talk) 13:59, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It's only a wiki, but here his name is given as Alexandre Andrea Stefano Casiraghi Santo Domingo. Here is another source. -- Perrak (talk) 12:28, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alexander/Sacha Casiraghi 

message: The Princess of Monaco is pregnant. Isn't it appropriate to signal this pregnancy at the line of succession. I know Princess Caroline is still the first person in line, but if for some reason the Prince dies before the birth of the child, the throne will be vacant until it and the child becomes Prince or Princess automatically. I mean, this pregnancy is crucial for the line of succession.--144.64.78.89 (talk) 11:54, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you assume that the throne would be vacant? I see no such thing in the Constitution. Le décès ou l'abdication du Prince régnant entraîne dévolution immédiate de la Couronne au profit du Prince Héréditaire... This actually implies the opposite, as Caroline is still the hereditary princess. Caroline might ascend and reign until the birth of the child. Surtsicna (talk) 15:51, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I don't understand that idea of a first-in-line assuming the throne after the death of the titular, knowing that a posthumous child who would overtake the first-in-line will be born soon. Why isn't the child to be born already the successor? I find this confusing and that's why I'm asking this here at the talk page.--144.64.78.89 (talk) 19:58, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prince Albert II's heir to be born 

message: Wild hypothetical here, be warned. Albert and Charlene are expecting their first child around December of this year. That child automatically becomes first in line, as defined by Monaco's laws of succession. 
What would happen if Albert and Charlene divorced and Albert married Alexandre's mother? As Alexandre is older than Albert and Charlene's child, and would be legitimated by his parent's marriage, would he become first in line?
PrsGoddess187 14:26, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, as current Monégasque law is written. And it is by no means a scenario that has not been suggested, debated and wondered about in online forums and, no doubt, at the Princely Court of Monte Carlo. Albert ended his 5-year relationship with Mlle Coste only after introducing her to his father at a restaurant and evoking an appalled reaction from Rainier III which was visible/audible to other diners. She got pregnant months after that break-up, during a "for-old-times-sake" tryst, Albert didn't marry for another six years, and is only now expecting a child by his wife. Albert's been admirably -- if belatedly -- candid about it. FactStraight (talk) 20:22, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a monarchy with silly laws..... Just think of what would happen if Albert II would endeavor to do that...Gerard von Hebel (talk) 22:48, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Succession 

message: If someone was to stumble across this article without prior knowledge of the topic, like I did, it would be beneficial to be clearer in the lead than we are at present. . --  Zanimum (talk) 03:20, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right. Is the lead better now? Surtsicna (talk) 21:14, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks!  --  Zanimum (talk) 01:33, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: Does the Sovereign Prince have to be Roman Catholic?187.73.191.2 (talk) 13:10, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Religious Test