Talk:Die Hard with a Vengeance

message: "The World Trade Center is visible in several shots in this movie, it was destroyed in the September 11, 2001 attacks."
Why is this trivia? Many movies show the World Trade Center towers, and therefore it should not be a major deal that Die Hard with a Vengeance displays it. I don't believe this warrants being put as trivia as well as including information that alludes to the fact they were destroyed.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.253.26.245 (talk) 01:38, 2006 October 5 (UTC)
:I for one think the trivia section needs searious trimming. Its about 2 pages of trivia, with only 4 or 5 actual trivia pieces in it. Someone needs to take the time to read, and delete most of the worthless trivia in there. DurotarLord 01:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia Inappropriate Comment

message: Is it spelled out anywhere that McClane was in danger of being lynched?  A knife is thrown at him while he is wearing the sandwich board, but I do not recall any discussion of lynching in the film.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.11.134.30 (talk) 03:06, 2005 November 1 (UTC)
Furthermore, according to the Internet Movie Database, the Sandwich board that McClane is wearing in actuality says "I Hate Everybody" and was changed using CGI to read "I Hate Niggers."
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.78.99.218 (talk) 06:52, 2006 June 22 (UTC)
:I agree with everything and yes the sandwich board change was done after the fact but the "I Hate Everybody" version is still used for TNT and TBS broadcasts while the other is used for premium cable channels like Encore and HBO. --Chad 06:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sandwich-board scene

message: One thing that was pointed out was that had McClane not reached to the bomb in the subway, Simon would not be able to carry out his plan due to all the emergency crew, police, and likely military precense.  Due to the timing of McClane catching the bomb, the only real difference between what could have happened and what did happen was the body count.  The bomb still went off, the train wrecked and the tunnel destroyed.  People still could have been killed, and yet, with all the emergency crews and police, Simon gave them a reason to abandon the site.  The plot scenario was fine and not flawed.  The only difference was the death toll.
Another 'flaw' that was mentioned was that Smion had intended to have McClane killed in Harlem, yet he had various other traps laid about, supposedly for McClane to handle.  Two problems with the calling this a flaw.  One is thinking it was only for McClane and his plans centered around that.  Without his enemy to solved the riddles, his plan would be useless.  But it could be assumed that after offing McClane, Simon would just sucker someone else to do the chosen tasks.  McClane only got the next task after surviving the previous one.  Simon knew they were all deadly and figured one would get him sooner or later.  Also, since the elephant bomb and the Yankee tickets were together, it could be assumed that it may have been a last minute ploy when McClane survived the subway encounter, which Simon planned to destroy in the first place.  Even McClane mentioned it was a miracle he lived or even arrived in time, and only got the elephant assignment afterward.  That assignment was solely meant to have McClane killed.  All the other bombs had a purpose and McClane was not the only one that could have done it, considering how well laid out the plan was.  The elephant bomb was the only one out of place.  All the others would have happened just as they did in the movie without McClane.  Except for the side projects to kill McClane, you'll notice Simon did not have to alter his plan.  Remember, about killing McClane, Simon said,'Life has it's little bonuses.'  Killing McClane was preffered, but not necessary.
Just wanted to add to this as I just removed these 2 supposed plot holes.  You can look at a couple of ways.  1, the track record of the Gruber characters, and this is eluded to later in the film with McClane saying "I know the family."  In the first film, Hans had the entire heist planned perfectly, with the FBI cutting the power, blowing the roof, etc.  McClane was "The fly in the ointment."
In the third film, Simon, wanted revenge, but also wanted to compete with McClane.  He probably figured that because McClane bested his brother, that he would most likely survive the Harlem stunt and in doing so, would not be able to interrupt the train (he didn't give them enough time even with McClane's improvising).
The whole idea was to get rid of the police, which he did.  There were rescue crews and such there and the dump trucks would not look suspect because they would appear to be hauling rubble away from the site.  I could probably go into it further if I wanted to waste time, but it's definitely not a plot hole.
Venom-smasher 22:29, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreeing to the above mentioned, it is notable to add, that Simon obviously tried to minimize the casualties, killing only if it is really necessary. His men used stun weapons and the russian agent, who killed McClanes Buddy was (too late) ordered not to do so. The bomb in the elementary school turned out to be fake. Of course the whole gang would not hesitate to kill, but they prefer discipline and smart moves over firepower, like the two STASI snipers, who did not kill Zeus, because "Jürgen" was ordered to kill both, McClane and Zeus. Their motives are more based on tactical reasons than on humanity. So McClane seems to be the perfect candidate for Simons "killing jokes" because he is meant to be killed and not an innocent bystander. But as allready pointed out above: Almost any other man would have done the job as well.A minor plothole can be seen in the theft of the numerous dump trucks. Stealing more than 50 trucks would take some companies out of business. Keeping in mind that the construction and hauling companies are somewhat related to organized crime, Simon might take some unwanted attention to his plot. Those "goodfellas" might show a lot more effectiveness in finding out, what is going on, than the police. So the safest way would be to steal the trucks one by one over months or opening up a construction company, maybe hire some employees, lease the dumptrucks from all over the country and steal them from the own construction site, which goes out of business right the same day. So instead of mentioning the theft of the dump trucks in the beginning, the cops might have mentioned the "unexpected statistic rise of carthefts" (in this case dump trucks). They might even have created a running gag, presuming that McClane was moved from homicide dep. to theft-investigation (cause of his alcohol problems) and his most recent case deals with some stolen dump trucks. McClane might have allready found out the growing number of thefts and could complain several times to be only attached to unimportant cases like stolen trucks until he gets the idea, what these trucks are used for (and bothers that he might have smelled the plot weeks before, if he had done his job more carefully). After escaping from the freighter vessel he could rapport to his CO that at least he solved the truck theft and requests to quit service for the rest of the day (to call his ex wife).--77.20.1.96 (talk) 07:04, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Flaws with Plot Flaws comments

message: i think whoever wrote the alternative ending section was confused - they say the original ending is set in germany, wheras this doesnt seem to be correct, and indeed is not the case in the film I own. - Pm504 21:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternative ending factual accuracy

message: I have changed all occurrences of “Gruber” to “Simon”, which is the name by which he is called throughout the movie, and is the name who Jeremy Irons is billed as having played.  “Gruber” is not even the character’s name!  “Peter Krieg was born Simon Peter Gruber”; i.e. Gruber is not his last name anymore.  I would move the Simon Gruber article to Peter Krieg, but it’s already taken, and I don’t really have the energy to create a disambiguation page and move stuff. --193.11.177.69 02:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gruber → Simon 

message: The fact about the man carrying a 4 gallon jug being beaten to solve the riddle is clearly false. it's in the wrong section and just doesn't make sense. I've read alot of trivia and listened to alot of interviews about this film and never once have I heard that factiod. Fenton Bailey 07:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious trivia in the ending section 

message: I guess I'm really glad they didn't go with the overblown alternate ending after all.  The comment that really stands out is that after all of these years, the FBI took away his Pension.
That is illegal.  Qualified pension plans are governed by the Internal Revenue Service.  Pensions are also referred to as a "defined benefit" plan, meaning that the contributions are based on a defined rate of company contribution typically, contrary to 401ks, where it is based on what the employee puts in.
It is illegal to take away a portion or all of somebody's pension for arbitrary reasons.  The FBI would have had to terminate the Pension for everybody in the company by amending the governing plan document, and even then, the benefits promised and accrued before the Pension plan termination would still have to be paid out to all plan participants.
So if something like that happened, McClane could simply call the Department of Labor and he'd have his Pension back.  --72.188.153.103 14:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Learn something new every day -- thanks. --EEMeltonIV 21:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate Ending Flaw 

message: Just want to make a correction on the McClane/Sandwich Board production note. That scene was not, at all, filmed in Harlem. In fact, that scene was filmed in Washington Heights (right outside my building), and Willis' board was blank. "I Hate Niggers" was actually added on in post-production. Patriot174 01:36, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The key word in your statement is "actors". This may shock you, but Jackson and the others were given a script that told them what to say and how to act around John McClane(who is in actuality just an actor named Bruce Willis). "Die Hard With a Vengeance" is not a documentary. So the fact that Jackson and the black youths act as though the sign said "I hate niggers" doesn't mean that it actually did.--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:15, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction to One of the Production Notes 

message: In a trivia section i think we should add the refrence to The incredibles. The bit where frozone is at gunpoint trying to get a drink in the jewlry store is the exact same premisis as when zuez carver is trying to awnser the phone in the subway.May i add that frozones voice actor, Samual L Jackson, is zuez carver in the film  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lord Cuthberton (talk • contribs) 14:32, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frozone=zuez 

message: Whoever is replacing the the title with, or inserting, that the film is called "Die Hard 3: With a Vengeance," or "Die Hard: With a Vengeance," please stop. Both these titles are incorrect. The film never had a 3 in the title, ever, and the only place where an ellipse is inserted in the title is in the commercial for the DVDs.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.199.160 (talk) 00:49, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Alternate title" 

message: Phil Thesis aka Damian Demento had a small role in a green pick up truck in this movie, according to his youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afhcwDOTcWs  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.241.20 (talk) 01:23, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phil Thesis aka Damian Demento had a small role 

message: I think This article should have some kind of section on it's reception, especially since this fil was not so well recieved as the others, and it's the only article of the fur without one.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.69.48 (talk) 16:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should have a reception section 

message: Does anyone know a reliable online source for the story of the origin of this movie? According to the DVD commentary it was originally supposed to become a standalone movie called "Simon Says", then the script was in the race to become Lethal Weapon IV. The script was then acquired for the Die Hard franchise when the original idea for Die Hard 3 (aboard a ship) was made obsolete by the release of Under Siege. The first hour of the movie is said to be quite close to the original Simon Says script. The details are also listed in bits and pieces in the IMDB entry, but since their verification process is relatively superficial it's not really a reliable source. --MikeZ (talk) 03:42, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you need an online source?--Martin IIIa (talk) 03:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Script origin 

message: Anybody know the names of Simon's henchmen in this movie? Anyone who knows who they are will be appresciate. BattleshipMan (talk) 22:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Only one is really named in the movie. It's pretty unlikely that any of the other characters are significant enough to included in the cast section of the article. Niteshift36 (talk) 20:48, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Actually there are three or four names of those henchman that are mentioned in the movie. BattleshipMan (talk) 21:03, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *You know what.....I have a better question: How will adding the names of very minor characters to the article improve it? Niteshift36 (talk) 12:36, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *You know what? It doesn't change anything. You and I agreed on that. BattleshipMan (talk) 00:29, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Then if it isn't going to improve the article, why are we discussing it here? Niteshift36 (talk) 12:18, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Since part of the storyline is that Simon worked as an infiltrator of some kind using specially trained Germans and others who spoke perfect English, the names of his henchmen are likely to have been fake anyway. Only Targo and 'Otto' (the one who steals McClane's mate's badge) actually get a name check.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr Morden76 (talk • contribs) 21:43, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *Actually, one of the guys name Karl was one of guys disguised as a security guard and the name Nils is one of the two Simon's men that McClane killed in the New York City Tunnel Number 3 where the aqueduct is at. BattleshipMan (talk) 03:15, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *Simons Henchmen come from all eastern block countries, the greatest part of them seem to be east german, though the infiltration unit was deployed in east germany. Otto speaks clearly russian (he was overdubbed to an east german dialect in the german version), so 'Otto' might be a nickname and Targo speaks hungarian onboard of the ship with another gangmember (though I cannot tell if the meaning of the phrase, Taro uses might be "Can you direct me to the railway station?" or "Please fondle my butthocks."). Karl and his partner speak something, which might be intended to be german but in fact is a mixture between afrikaans and "tomanish" from The Great Dictator (when Zeus handed them over the Elefant bomb). Later when Zeus picks up the last riddle one of the german sniper team (the spotter) is called 'Jürgen'. 'Jürgen' seems to be less than a colonel (calling Simon "Herr Oberst"), which is hard to believe considdering his age, maybe he has served as NCO and reached sergeant major (Stabsfeldwebel). Names like 'Karl', 'Hans' and 'Otto' were popular during the 1920s but were unfashioned during the 1950s and 1960s when most of the east germans, portrayed in this movie must have been born. Name fashion shew a few differences in east and west germany. In 1990 those men in their thirties and fourties would name 'Jens', 'Michael' (or the russian form 'Misha'), 'Christian', 'Klaus', 'Jörg' or even 'Falko'. This is just for the curiosity of BattleshipMan.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.20.1.96 (talk) 09:10, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simon's henchmen 

message: I have an issue the plot summary here. The film makes no reference at all to the material being 'bio chemical', just a binary liquid and I did provide a link to a (admittedly very short) Wiki article that had its own external links. I just thought it was a fairly minor edit/correction that only added about 10 words, and didn't really see why it needed to be removed. The same could be said for my edit of the bit where Mclane realises whats actual happening from the comments made by the youth. He didn't 'overhear' a conversation (as was stated in the pre edited article), he directly engaged with the youth after catching him stealing --Mr Morden76 (talk) 22:10, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about the second point but to the explosive part, we have a word limit when writing plots and the only important part about it is that it is explosive, it doesn't matter if it needs to mix, its no different than a timer and from what I recall, you don't need to know it mixes to understand the plot, just that it will explode. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 22:29, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I told Morden the same thing previously. As for the second part, we could just as easily say, "Mclane realizes..." and leave it at that. Exactly how he realizes it isn't essential to the plot. Doniago (talk) 14:16, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Binary Liquid explosive 

message: The picture of "Simon Gruber" as an East German officer that is seen in the FBI folder used in the movie (see here: image) is actually a photshop of a real image. You can see they used the three East German guards in the top center. Jeremy Irons face was merged onto the one on the left in the center group. The source is an actual photograph showing the recovery of the body of Günter Litfin who was shot trying to cross the Berlin Wall in 1961. 
I know it's Original Research but I thought it worth sharing.31.51.45.206 (talk) 14:41, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  An interesting piece of trivia that won't find itself into the article. 

message: Bit role says five lines of dialogue. I'm guessing he has about 8-12 as he has several different scenes of banter with McClane. As for: "Richard Council as Otto, Mischa Hausserman as Mischa, Phil Theis as Erik, Robert Sedgwick as Rolf, Sven Torvaid as Karl, Timothy Adams as Gunther, Tony Halme as Roman, Greg Skrovic as Kurt, Bill Christ as Ivan, Gerrit Vooren as Nils and Willis Sparks as Klaus." Who of them has even five lines? The most memorable henchman, Otto, doesn't even speak English. 93.136.174.224 (talk) 05:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jerry Parks