Talk:Anne of Cleves

message: Anne of Cleves is cool
: Why? Bastie 06:40, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: "William (Wilhelm ?) was a Catholic personally..." but what was Anne ?  It later says she converted to Catholicism. -- Beardo 05:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I'm sure you already know, during the Protestant Reformation, Henry VIII had broken away from the Roman Catholic faith and formed the Church of England. This was a very tumultuous period throughout Europe. Anne's brother Duke William, though Catholic, arranged for her marriage to the King of England for political reasons -- as usually was the case for royal marriages. Their [Anne and William's] brother-in-law was also John Frederick, Elector of Saxony and head of the Protestant Confederation of Germany, which made for an advantageous marriage for Henry. Upon marriage, she left the Catholic faith of her birth and converted to the King's faith.  When both Henry VIII and his son Edward VI died, Henry's daughter Mary I, a life-long practicing Catholic (through her mother Catherine of Aragon), became queen and tried to 'force' England back to Catholicism. Hence the nickname "Bloody Mary". By this time, and since Anne was on good terms with her one-time step-daughter, she had converted back to Catholicism. Makes complete sense. Darnold01 05:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ? 

message: I'm finding this sequence confusing -
Motivated by the flattering painting he had received, Henry was quite impatient to see his future bride. He went to meet her at the water's edge when she arrived by boat. Their first night as husband and wife was not a happy one; within a few hours he came from the room and announced: "I like her not." Henry urged Cromwell to find a legal way to avoid the marriage but, by this point, evading the marriage was impossible without offending the Germans.
A doomed marriage
The two were married on 6 January 1540 at the royal Palace of Placentia in Greenwich, London by Archbishop Thomas Cranmer, despite Henry's very vocal misgivings. If his bride had objections, she kept them to herself. The phrase “God send me well to keep” was engraved around Anne’s wedding ring.
I don't know anything about the marriage customs of Tudor royalty. This implies that "their first night as husband and wife" preceded their marriage, which I suppose but am not certain is incorrect. Can this be clarified? Thanks. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 15:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Now sorted. qp10qp (talk) 01:18, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Marriage: Needs needs copy editing??

message: ::Unfortunately, Anne has been ignored by scholars, historians, and romance writers alike, so there is really scanty interest in her, as compared to Henry's other wives. It's a pity as Anne merits more scholarly notice, especially as she outlived all of his consorts. I believe her last public appearance was in 1553 at Queen Mary's procession and coronation. Correct me if I'm wrong.--jeanne (talk) 07:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you - she was not significant in the politics of the era, but she doesn't deserve to be neglected. I am particulary interested in her life after the annulment. Most "biographies" of Anne of Cleves tell about the preparations for the wedding and about the marriage itself in details, but nothing is said about her life from the moment she ceases to be Queen of England until her death. I too have read somewhere that her last public appearance was at Queen Mary I's coronation. I'll try to find a source. Surtsicna (talk) 12:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ignored by historians

message: ::The article does't state what caused Anne's death. She died at the age of 42, so it wasn't old age that caused it.--jeanne (talk) 09:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Life expectancy was shorter back then (and well into the early 20th century, the average lifespan was 40-50 years) due to many factors, including lack of antibiotics or proper sanitation, a poor diet, contaminated food and water, the prevalence of plague and other fatal epidemics, the practise of physicians, who often had unwashed hands, to bleed an ill patient literally to death, I could go on. Anne died at 42 years; the human body in the 16th century did not age quicker than it does today. Something other than the sweeping term old age was responsible for the extinction of the life of Anne of Cleves.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:04, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In agreement, Anne's demise was likely a lack of medical know-now. I'm confident at 42, her hair wasn't snow white & natural causes was taking place. GoodDay (talk) 16:36, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If a 42 year-old woman in the 16th-century was the equivalent of a modern day 80 year-old, then by that same reckoning Anne of Cleves would have reached puberty at the age of 6 or 7!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, very few people reached 'senior age' back in those days. The enviroment was their enemy, not their own bodies. GoodDay (talk) 16:58, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is the rare case of Eleanor of Aquitaine who lived past 80. And she gave birth to her last child at 45! So this was obviously an example of a very healthy-and lucky woman. Back then, especially in the case of children and infants, it was survival of the fittest.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:02, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Biographer Antonia Fraser states in The Wives of Henry VIII on page 412, that Anne probably died of cancer so I have put it in the article along with the ref to Fraser's book.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:54, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

text: A person still had to have a cause of death. Dying at around 40 would still need a reason. Remember that these averages include the high infant mortality rate, high rate of death among children, and high rate of death among young women who'd just given birth. Because of all that young death, there HAD to be quite a few who DID die at what we would consider old age to "balance" that out to create an average life expectancy of 35ish. People, in any time period, don't just normally die at 35/40 years old without a reason. 2600:1700:BC01:9B0:544F:E012:2320:EFE4 (talk) 02:05, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: True, there's always a reason, but whether the reason was known is another issue entirely. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 14:44, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Cause of Death

message: Within the article an interesting point is raised near the end concerning why the Cleves marriage failed:
“ Another theory suggests that shifts in a threatened Catholic French-Spanish alliance removed any diplomatic motivations for their union”
However Francis I and Charles V were still engaged in an alliance when Henry moved on to wife number five (Katherine Howard). Arguably his rejection of Anne was politically dangerous because he was not sure of securing an alliance with either Charles or Francis and he risked offending the Duke of Cleves who could have made advances towards Henry’s enemies. Eric Ives in his entry on Henry VIII on the Oxford DNB notes that open hostilities between Francis and Charles commenced in 1542 – so around two years after Henry and Anne’s annulment. 
So is the alliance theory flawed? I understand though that as a theory raised by some historians it is useful to discuss within this article. --Little miss sunnydale (talk) 15:44, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Alliance theory?

message: Many parts of this article match almost word-for-word with the article in the New World Encyclopedia.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Anne_of_Cleves
Is that a problem from Wikipedia's standpoint? Who decides, and what should be done about it? 
MelanieN (talk) 16:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you'll find the New World Encyclopedia version is a copy of English Wikipedia, not the other way round.  It does credit Wikipedia as the source at the bottom of the page!  Skinsmoke (talk) 06:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this entry copied from the New World Encyclopedia? 

message: The template list Bernhard I, Duke of Saxe-Lauenburg (with "page does not exist"), who, however, has a page following the Ascanian counting as Bernard II, Duke of Saxe-Lauenburg. I suggest to correct the link. 
Best wishes,
--Ulf Heinsohn (talk) 14:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Anne's Ancestors

message: The article claims that Henry was pressured briefly to remarry Anne but refused. I have never heard this before? When did this happen? Also Anne and Henry were close right up until he died and he was said to have grown fond of her but I never heard rumor of a second marriage occured?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.81.99.17 (talk) 20:16, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: you may be right 129.140.0.23 (talk) 09:22, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remarry? 

message: :The article had "duas pollitiones nocturnas in somno (She is so smelly I can't sleep)." The Latin itself might be poorly transcribed -- I went ahead and changed it to 'insomno' instead of 'in somno' since if he was 'in somno' that would mean he had been asleep. I think the translation is not very precise though (it was probably done from Latin to Japanese then Japanese to English.) Can anyone with better Latin give it a try, or else someone else who has access to the quotation?--174.56.0.212 (talk) 03:41, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Not very precise" is an understatement. The meaning is as follows: 'Henry said he was not impotent since he experienced "duas pollutiones nocturnas in somno" (two nocturnal emissions in dreams; i.e., two wet dreams).' While talking to his doctor about his inability to consummate his marriage with Anne, Henry asserts that he is still virile, perhaps speaking in Latin to help cover his shame. Boppet (talk) 04:07, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Latin for "two wet dreams"

message: This article really ought to confirm or correct the old anecdote that Henry said she looked like a Flanders Mare, in contrast to how Holbein had portrayed her. 86.179.199.83 (talk) 15:16, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flanders Mare? 

message: While I agree with Merlinme, I should note that the rumour was not made up (i.e. the rumour itself actually existed). Just a few days ago, I was looking for information about Eleanor Manners, Countess of Rutland, when I stumbled upon an original report to Henry VIII about his former wife's supposed childbirth. I recall the report dismissing it as "slander", but I had no idea that the info on the rumour was already in the article and that somebody would tag it as unsourced (which it is). I'll try to find it. Meanwhile, I hope the information will not be removed on the ground of being unsourced. Surtsicna (talk) 17:12, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anne's son by Henry 

message: Did Henry die somewhere in the "After the annulment" period? I think it should be mentioned if so. Barnswallownest (talk) 21:16, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Henry's death? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I find the subject of religion surfaces all too frequently in dealing with royalty on Wikipedia. Nevertheless, two religions are notably applicable to Anne of Cleves, Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism, with her early life possibly spent in Germanic nondenominational limbo. Shall we not remove the citations and place Anglicanism under Roman Catholicism with the standard prev.? Ping  and . – Conservatrix (talk) 08:42, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally I agree. Jadd Haidar (talk) 11:44, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: I've cut a bunch of fluff about novels - there's no indication of the particular notability of any of the depictions, and no sourcing. It's simply a dumping ground for potted summaries of editors pet authors. Pipsally (talk) 11:54, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literature 

message: I tried twice to ad a contribution at ”Anne of Cleves” regarding hear presence as musical inspiration on Rick Wakeman, 1973 album, ”The Six Wives of Henry VIII”. My contribution was rejected by Celia Homeford, being considered ”Too trivial”.  Then, why there ts still a page on Wikipedia dedicated to this album :  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Six_Wives_of_Henry_VIII_(album)
It is not too trivial? 5.12.32.83 (talk) 17:00, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not for its own page, no. Wikipedia:Notability is not the same as article content. Celia Homeford (talk) 17:02, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music 

message: Why is there seemingly little information on someone who was married to one of the most (in)famous kings in history? Chillfroi (talk) 21:43, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of information 

message: This phrase appears in the Chapuys quote, but is then attributed to Wriothesley two sentences later. Did they both say it? Furius (talk) 21:16, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "regarded him little" 

message: https://archive.org/details/excerptahistoric00bentuoft/page/294/mode/2up?view=theater
It has her will and a description of her funeral. Oric22 (talk) 06:10, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anne of Cleves Funeral and Will