Talk:History of the Jews in Bulgaria

message: There are literally no sources for this article until WW2.  Sources should be provided or the offending sections should be removed.
-- ccxvi 03:15, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: We are not engaged in archival research here; these events are described in several reliable WP:SECONDARY sources. Guccisamsclub (talk) 17:49, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources?

message: This article deals with Bulgarian Jewry as a historical and demographic group, therefore I suggest a rename from the present Bulgarian Jews. Comments? -- Deborahjay 19:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bulgarian '''Jewry'''

message: The article on Bulgarian Jewry in the Hebrew-language Wikipedia has an extensive section (nearly 1,000 words; will be longer in English) on the rescue of the community in WWII. I'm in the process of translating it into English.  --Deborahjay 19:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great! The article needs some considerable general expansion (not only in terms of more detailed history of the community) and I'd be happy to help with what I can (mostly minor things like transliteration of Bulgarian names, etc.) Todor→Bozhinov 21:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgarian Jewry in WWII 

message: Factuarius, you have infringed the copyright of the Virtual Jewish Library by almost directly copying its article on Bulgaria. While much of the text you have inserted is notable and has its place in the Wikipedia article (nobody is denying the existence of a Law for protection of the nation), but we can't afford to include copyrighted text. If you'd like to improve this article, please do so using your own words.
My general opinion, though, is that if Kostja or you would like to write an article about the Holocaust in Bulgaria or Bulgarian Jews during World War II or the Rescue of the Bulgarian Jews + background, all of this text and all of those opinions ought to go there. The Bulgarian Jews article is intended to be a summary, and at the moment, the "Bulgarian Jews during World War II" section is too large.
Also, what the hell was with the "smallest Jewish population in Europe"? That's some of the most ridiculous stuff I've ever read. What was the point of it anyway? You clearly have an anti-Bulgarian agenda, so please adhere to WP:NPOV or leave the project. Todor→Bozhinov 07:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyvio 

message: I was thinking to write to the Virtual Jewish Library for giving a permission in using that material, which I am sure they will grant it since I have found entire article in WP copied from that Library. But before that I decided to re-write three sentences as to cut time. This is a text version which I believe has no copyvio problems:
In August of 1940, the Bulgarian parliament  enactedthe  Law for the Protection of the Nation, patterned after the 1935 Nuremberg Laws, which introduced numerous legal restrictions on Jews in Bulgaria.  According to this law, Jews were prohibited from using the main thoroughfares, were not allowed to move from one town to another or to engage in commerce, had to wear the yellow badge, and were issued special yellow identity cards.  Any jewelry and gold currency in the possession of Jews was confiscated and handed over to the Bulgarian national bankjewishvirtuallibrary.org:Bulgaria. The law also prohibited Jews from voting, running for office, working in government positions, serving in the army, marrying or rehabilitating with ethnic Bulgarians, using Bulgarian names, or owning rural land. Unlike the Italy, the other Nazi Germany allies, the Bulgarian WW 2 regime treated the Jews with exceptional cruelty and strictly applied these racial restrictionsjewishvirtuallibrary.org:Bulgaria. Jewish houses were identified as such by a special sign. Every town with a Jewish population had its commissioner for Jewish affairs, whose task it was to ensure that these laws were enforced. 
 
 The legislation also established quotas that limited the number of Jews in Bulgarian universities.{{cite
book| last = Levin| first = Itamar| authorlink =| coauthors = Natasha Dornberg, Judith Yalon-Fortus| title = His majesty's enemies: Great Britain's war against Holocaust victims and survivors| publisher =Greenwood Publishing Group| date = 2001| location =| page = 37| url =|doi =| id =| isbn = 0275968162}}name="benbassa"/> Not only did Jewish leaders protest the law, the Bulgarian Orthodox Church, Bulgarian Communist Party officials, twenty-one writers, and professional organizations also opposed.<ref>
Tamir Vicki, in "Bulgaria and Her Jews:The History of a Dubious Symbiosis" (Yeshiva University Press,N.York 1979), analyses the complexities of Bulgarian anti-semitism, and why this actually resulted in the survival of almost the entire pre-WW2 Jewish community of Bulgaria (48,000), but also why it accounted for the mass exodus to Palestine of almost every Bulgarian Jew following the war. Dimitar Peshev played a crucial role in preventing the deportations, as well as Bulgarian Church officials. According to Professor Chary Frederick (The Bulgarian Jews and the Final Solution, University of Pittsburgh Press. 1972, p.246) "the survival of Bulgarian Jews was due to complex political and social internal struggles, and not because of Bulgarian humanity". Though they were not deported to concentration camps or killed, able-bodied Bulgarian Jewish men were forced to participate in hard labour battalions under poor conditions during the entire warIn the Trenches: 2004-2005, David A. Harris, 2006,p.102
On the other hand, Bulgarian authorities deported to concentration camps the vast majority of the Jews in the areas of Macedonia and Thrace. The Bulgarian regime did not regard those Jews as Bulgarians, even though these areas had been officially annexed three years before (1941) to the Bulgarian StateWar and social change in modern Europe:The great transformation revisited, Sandra Halperin, Cambridge University Press 2002, p.170.  Nor did the Bulgarian regime protect the Jews who had fled to Bulgaria from
Nazi occupation elsewhere. Nearly all of the Jews of Bulgarian-occupied Macedonia and Thrace, approximately 14,000 people, were arrested by Bulgarian authorities and deported. They were transferred to German control and then shipped to Treblinka for extermination between March 1943 and September 1944jewishvirtuallibrary.org:Bulgaria after an agreement signed between the two allies, Bulgaria and Nazi Germany. None of the deportees survived.
After the war and the establishment of a Communist government, virtually the entire Jewish population forced to leave BulgariaBulgaria and Her Jews: The History of a Dubious
Symbiosis, Tamir Vicki, Yeshiva University Press, N.York 1979, p.314 for Israel, making Bulgaria the country with one of the smallest Jewish population in Europe (1,363 according to the 2001 census). According to Israeli government statistics, 43,961 people from Bulgaria have emigrated to Israel between 1948 and 2006, which is the fourth
largest number of all European countries, behind the Soviet Union, Romania and Poland.
: After my first reading, I'm not convinced in the neutrality of this text. I'm puzzled as to what "one of the smallest Jewish population(s) in Europe" is still doing here, albeit with a . I'm not questioning the quality of your sources (have not reviewed that yet, and I'm even assuming good faith on the source of the prose), but the citations seem to imply a certain point of view, which is surely not the prevalent one. The section entirely minimizes the rescue of the Bulgarian Jews and emphasizes the Law for the Protection of the Nation without explaining the reasons behind its passing (Nazi pressure).
: Most importantly, the section is way too long compared to the article's current length. It ought to be no more than three paragraphs the size of the second one above ("In August of 1940...") in my opinion. Also, for that length we can't afford to include any quotes or lengthy treatment of alternative opinions. If you'd like to write about the matter, try writing a separate article, I've suggested names above, but please don't rely only on sources that minimize the rescue of the Bulgarian Jews and emphasize everything else.
: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "remove all of the negative stuff and leave only the praise". The point is, there has to be balance and neutrality and the current tone, quotations and referencing are far from achieving that. Best, Todor→Bozhinov 20:40, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But the Second World War chapter has indeed 3 paragraphs. To be honest I am "getting you wrong" because you reverted everything I wrote down to the last ref and comma. Included all five photos I put except the one for the Bulgarian people. And that without bothering to give a single word of explanation: In a chapter about the Bulgarian participation in the Holocaust to have only a photo for the Bulgarian people is somewhat strange to me. But apparently not to you. Anyway I am going to put back the chapter eliminating the sentence puzzling you. But I will open a discussion about that here. I believe it's easy to find out if Bulgaria post-war became the European country with the smaller Jew population or not. I will also add your point about "the nazi pressure" but you will have to produce a ref about it in the near future. As for the rest add whatever referenced you think necessary as to "emphasize the rescue" of the part of the Jews that evade deportation etc. The article isn't mine, I only tried to expand it.--Factuarius (talk) 02:52, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Mdann52 (talk) 19:35, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Version without copyview problems

message: I boldly removed reference to Suleiman Pasha in this article because:
# His own Wikipedia page makes no mention of him being Jewish, or of any of the other information claimed in this article.
# the only source in this article for any of its claims about this man, is a blog post by an individual who does not seem to have any notability or academic credentials, and which reads like a hate-motivated rant (translated from the Bulgarian using Google translate).
Should there be legitimate sources for the material deleted, I have no objection to the material being restored.
Here is the deleted text:
: Jews played prominent roles on both sides of Bulgaria's struggle for liberation from Ottoman rule during the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–78. On the pro-Ottoman side, the racially Jewish British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli sent military aid to the Ottoman army, which was itself led by the Jewish general Suleiman Pasha. Suleiman gained notoriety for the war crimes committed under his orders, such as at Stara Zagora, where 14,000 civilians were massacred by methods such as baking and ritualistic sacrifice.[5] On the other hand, it was the rabbi of Sofia, Gabriel Almosnino, who thwarted Suleiman's plans to destroy Sofia. Thus, Bulgarian history records Gabriel as a hero, and Suleiman as perpetrator of its worst known massacre.
I also removed reference to Rabbi Gabriel Almosnino in the same paragraph, for lack of any citations. There is mention of this man in the Wikipedia article on Sofia, but not anything that supports the claims in this article.
Here is the deleted citation: <ref name=bgnow>
</ref>
—Boruch Baum (talk) 16:11, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy of Suleiman Pasha (Ottoman general) and of Rabbi Gabriel Almosnino 

message: Someone made the suggestion in August, and there has been no discussion so far about it. I would point out that on the page List of South-East European Jews, it is only the Bulgarian section that has this suggestion. OTOH, the Bulgarian section there, is by far the largest. I randomly checked, and there do exist dedicated pages List of German Jews and List of French Jews, so for consistency it would seem correct not to merge the pages, and because no-one has commented since August, not even the person who made the suggestion originally, I'm removing the suggestion box template. —Boruch Baum (talk) 17:40, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone in August suggested merging section "Notable Bulgarian Jews" with [[List of South-East European Jews#Bulgaria|List of Bulgarian Jews]] 

message: Is this quote in which Ferdinand identifies as half Jewish verifiable? The house of Saxe-Coburg Gotha indeed had Jewish blood in their veins. For example Ferdinand's grandmother (Maria Antonia Koháry de Csábrág) is a Hungarian Hebrew, and therefore several kings including Ferdinand of Bulgaria are of Jew  ish descent whose feautures are remarkably Jewish.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.62.201.251 (talk) 02:09, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ferdinand 

message: Would you add Mark Zuckerberg 
 , Pancho Vladigerov and Dora Gabe next to the other portrets?45.33.138.190 (talk) 06:29, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous people 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There was no Poland at that time. Either occupied Poland or German death camps and ghettos.Xx236 (talk) 07:38, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  4,500 Jews from Greek Thrace and Eastern Macedonia were deported to Poland 

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thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

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thread_title:  Move discussion in progress