Talk:José Raúl Capablanca

message: Capablanca's nationality would be become clearer. Actually he wasn't cuban, not UNTIL Cuba was declared an independient republic in 1902. Rather he was spaniard, he was born in 1888, at Spain, the territories of "ultramar" (overseas) named "Virreinato de Nueva España" and he legally had the spanish citizen (not the cuban nationality). Besides the spanish extra-peninsular territories, in "stricto sensu" and by legal conditions officially weren't and aren't even considered colonies, on the contrary, they're Spain itself, like nowadays it happens with Canary Islands or Ceuta and Melilla (canarians, melillenses and ceuties of course have spanish nationality)  He was spaniard not only by birth, he only had a nationality until he was 14 years old, the spanish nationality, not the cuban one. Like is recorded in Wikipedia's spanish article http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ra%C3%BAl_Capablanca during his life he had two nationalities: spanish and cuban.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.5.9.93 (talk) 18:48, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capablanca's nationality 

message: If Milan Vidmar is important enough to be of interest to a reader reading about Capablanca, the link should be in the main text of the article ChessPlayer 05:03, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Vidmar

message: I noticed that very few of the grandmasters are actually listed in Category:Chess_grandmasters, so I have been adding them.  I am not going to add Capablanka right now though because I was wondering.  When was the current system/title set up?  Obviously he would have been awarded the title, but the article on International Grandmaster does not state when it was instituted.  Can someone who knows possibly add that information and if applicable add the catagory here?  Thanks Dalf | Talk 12:52, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As I recall, the first grandmaster titles were awarded by the Czar of Russia, to the people whom he (quite accurately) viewed to be the strongest chessplayers at the time. I'll take a look at the International Grandmaster article and see if I can add something about that. --Malathion 05:16, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like that info is already there. Double-check the International Grandmaster article. It's in the middle. --Malathion 07:08, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chess grandmasters 

message: This article is excessively adulatory. It sounds like a fan wrote it. ⟳ausa کui × 23:03, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please be more specific. Are there any actual mistakes?  Why not balance it if you feel that way? 220.245.180.130 03:14, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I do plan to try to improve this article, but some of the improvements I have made in the past were undone. Please review WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. I'm in school now so my time is limited. This article is on my watchlist and I'll try to take a crack at it this weekend. ⟳ausa کui × 05:59, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Given the POV you had inserted into Bobby Fischer, I'm not sanguine about this prospect.  One of the sentences you removed from this article in the past is "Capablanca is still widely regarded as one of the greatest players ever." which is clearly true beyond any doubt whatsoever.  Ironically even your hero Fischer would agree with this statement. Quale 16:29, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, what? ⟳ausa کui × 19:54, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Sorry, I thought looking at this article history that you had removed the true and NPOV statement "Capablanca is still widely regarded as one of the greatest players ever."  I also thought that you had made a couple of additions to the Bobby Fischer article. One was "Of all World Champions of chess, the skill gap between him and his contemporaries was the largest in history." Absolutely outrageously POV, an opinion stated as a bald fact with the only attribution being buried in a footnote.  I thought you also added this: "In particular, his introduction of the so-called "poisoned pawn" variation of the Najdorf Sicilian (1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd5 4. Nxd5 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Qb6!) revolutionized both the particular variation, and the way chess professionals viewed opening theory in general."  incorrectly attributed to John Watson. It's not that this is POV, it's that it is untrue.  It also isn't what Watson wrote as he very explicitly says Fischer didn't introduce the Poisoned Pawn. Ironically Russians had played it before Fischer. Quale 05:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Uhh, I think this probably ought to go to the talk page of Bobby Fischer. I'm not sure why you are bringing it up here. ⟳ausa کui × 07:47, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Sorry, you are right of course.  I should never have made this personal, nor introduced the past of other articles instead of concentrating on the present and future of this one.  Ultimately, both of those additions to the Fischer article did improve it once the POV statement was attributed to Kasparov in the text and the erroneous part of the Poisoned Pawn discussion was fixed, so the result was positive.  I don't think we share the same understanding of POV.  It's not POV to say that the earth is round even though a few people may believe it's flat.  Capablanca's place in chess history is the equivalent of the place of Mozart or Beethoven in music, and it's not POV to point that out in the article. Quale 06:22, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

text: I'm going to alter some of the adulatory statments and remove the inappropriate notice. Note that most of the positive assesments about Capablance are directly attributed specific commentators (Botvinnik, Alekhine etc) so can stay unchanged. It would help matters if any remaining criticisms are outlined specifically so we can all work towards improving the article. Lisiate 21:06, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the goal of improving the article, but unfortunately changes like replacing "brilliancy" with "game" aren't improvements. Quale 05:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone 

message: The POV police are at it again.  I see that
: Then he won another brilliancy against Bernstein in Moscow,
was reverted to
: Then he won another game against Bernstein in Moscow,
There are problems here.  First, the replaced text is so limp as to be a horrible read, and doesn't even make sense in context.  So he won another game?  Good chess players win games all the time—why was this win important?
Second, the victory was a brilliancy.  The finishing stroke, 29...Qb2!!, is one of the most famous moves in chess history.  Fine included this position in The World's Great Chess Games.  A generation later in The World's Greatest Chess Games, Nunn, Emms, and Burgess selected the game as one of the 112 best games ever.  The book says "The Cuban follows up by stunning the chess world with a new and somewhat controversial concept."  Capablanca accepted hanging pawns, at that time almost universally condemned as weak.  With 15...c4!, he willing weakened d4 in order to prove that hanging pawns can be a dynamic strength.  Emms comments, "This powerful argument changed people's concept of this type of position, and influenced generations of grandmasters."  He then gives examples showing how Fischer and Short were beneficiaries of Capablanca's positional insight.  Emm's summation of the game ends with the sentence "Capablanca was a genius!". Quale 03:01, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Saying it was brilliant is POV. It may be better to say that Nunn, Emms, and Burgess regarded it as a brilliancy. ⟳ausa کui × 03:26, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Saying it was a brilliancy is a fact, not POV.  Nunn, Emms, and Burgess are not the only ones who consider it a brilliancy—that view is universal among those knowledgable in chess. Quale 05:06, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

text: What is the tone concern with the original, true, statement? Quale 05:06, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It wasn't the tone as much as I just wasn't sure what the original wording meant. I can't find any article on brilliancy awards, perhaps it would help if you added one (I don't know enough about them to contribute)? Lisiate 21:44, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bernstein-Capablanca, Moscow 1914 

message: The article includes this statement:  "He was undefeated for eight consecutive years, from 1917 to 1923 inclusive, a 63-game non-losing streak."  At a quick glance, this seems contradictory, though I'm guessing that it's intended to mean that he was undefeated from mid-1916 to mid-1924 (I believe his streak was ended by Reti in the 1924 New York tournament).  Seems like this could be clarified slightly. Dsreyn 04:23, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eight year unbeaten streak 

message: I don't see why the article was supposed to be insufficiently formal, so I've removed the  tag. If anyone still think the article needs to be more formal, can you elaborate on what specifically should be improved? Neilc 17:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  formality 

message: In this article, it says that Capablanca's win against Corzo in 1901 was 4-2-6. In the Juan Corzo article says the score was 4-3-6. If anybody knows the real score, it would be great if they fixed whichever article is wrong. Herostratus 10:41, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did Capablance beat Corzo 4-2 or 4-3? 

message: The article stated that: 
"Throughout his tenure as champion, Alekhine refused to play in the same tournaments as Capablanca."
While Alekhine certainly avoided playing in the same tournaments, he still agreed to play in Nottingham 1936 and AVRO 1938.
It seems a little misleading to say he refused to play when he agreed to do so at least twice to my knowledge.
But Alekhine was not the champion was at the time of the Nottingham 1936 tournament; he had lost the title to Euwe the prior year.  He did, of course, regain the title in 1937, but his stature by then was much diminished and he could no longer dictate to tournament committees as he had in the early 1930's.   Pat Finley  208.50.14.246 22:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well 1938 was during his tenure as world champion, so the original sentence (quoted above) was incorrect. I changed it to say Alekhine only refused during his first tenure as champion (1927-35), which is correct. Peter Ballard 01:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capablanca-Alekhine after the World Championship match 

message: The article says that Capa was lazy, and I've heard this from several sources.  On the other hand, several sources say that he studied 1,000 rook and pawn endgames.  I need to find one of them (for contrast).  Bubba73 (talk), 05:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I now have a reference (Chess: A History by Golombek) that says that he never studied opening books but that he did study endgames and endgame books.  Bubba73 (You talkin' to me?), 04:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lazy? 

message: The April, 1955 issue of Reader's Digest contained an article from The Rotarian by Joseph Phillips, called: "Chess: They Call It a Game."
In this article Phillips tells how the great chess champion, Capablanca, was so superior to all competition that it was believed by experts that he would never be beaten in match play. Yet, he lost the championship to a rather obscure player, Alekhine, who had given no hint that he even posed a serious threat to the great Capablanca.
The chess world was stunned by the upset, which today would be comparable to a Golden Gloves finalist defeating the heavyweight champion of the world.
Phillips tells us that Alekhine had trained for the match very much like a boxer conditioning himself for a fight. He retired to the country, cut out smoking and drinking and did calisthenics. "For three months, he played chess only in his mind, building up steam for the moment when he would meet the champion."
Kendirangu 10:01, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defeat by Alekhine 

message: I spent quite a bit of effort digging out the full details of Capablanca's competitive career, and have included this information in the article, as of the week of September 17th, 2007. The article is now complete in this respect, and it shows that Capablanca had only ONE minus score, and only ONE placing out of the top four in a tournament, IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER!! These were both at AVRO 1938, where he suffered a stroke during the tournament.
Cheers, FrankEldonDixon, Kingston, Canada, Sept. 19th, 2007, GMT +5, 17:17.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by FrankEldonDixon (talk • contribs) 21:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capablanca's competitive career now fully documented 

message: Please stop using Chessmetric.com as a source. That site was built blindly by a computer from a raw Chessbase database! Please use books! -Chvsanchez 06:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  chessmetric.com is not a registered domain name. The site doesn't exist, so your comment doesn't make sense. ChessCreator 12:24, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chessmetric.com 

message: Chessmetrics.com is some lame guy who got a minor in statistics from a shitty university and is trying to give himself free plugs to EVERY chess-player article I have seen on wikipedia.
Can an admin PLEASE DELETE all the advertisement for chessmetrics.com (with an S) not chessmetric.com it is chessmetrics.com  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.221.226.3 (talk) 21:17, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not do it yourself? 22:19, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But it seems to have merit.  It's up to readers what they make of it, so don't censor this information.58.174.73.247 (talk) 01:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chessmetrics.com (with an S) 

message: This is a very thorough article - congratulations to all contributors! I think it needs 2 things: an assessment of Capa's playing style; conversion of all references to standard Wikipedia citation format (without this AFAIK it has no chance of reaching FA and little chance of reaching GA). I'll deal with playing style now. Philcha (talk) 23:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One thing - the article is overlinked.  I think every time another player is mentioned, it is linked.  There are far too many such links.  Only the first time a person appears needs to be linked.  Bubba73 (talk), 18:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Secondly - it needs a better photo of Capa.  A magazine cover used to show the subject of the article is NOT supposed to be used.  Bubba73 (talk), 18:02, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The date styling should be consistent throughout, regardless of which method is used-at times it's in the American form (dd/mm/yyyy), others it's done as (mm/dd/yyyy) Hushpuckena (talk) 05:11, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Revisions needed (very few)

message: I wasn't sure what was meant in the sentence describing how other players couldn't beat him even when "giving him the handicap of a queen." I'm assuming this means he played without a queen, but wouldn't that usually be described as *him* giving *them* a handicap?
- Peach (talk) 06:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A club expert gave young Capa Queen odds. i.e. Capa (black) had the Queen, the opponent did not. It is Capa's first recorded game, and can be seen at http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1481959 . It is interesting because you can see the quality of his play at 4 years old. I remember one annotator (in a book, not at that web site) writing that he got the impression that Capa could have outplayed his opponent even if he didn't have the extra queen. Mind you, this explanation is so laboured, maybe it should be cut from the article. Peter Ballard (talk) 07:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Childhood Section - Unclear 

message: I'm busy trying to get Alexander Alekhine to GA. While searching for refs I found this about Capa:
*Capablanca Interviewed in 1939. Philcha (talk) 11:18, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanx for that.  BTW, this is in Winter's compendium on Capa. 58.174.73.247 (talk) 01:31, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Useful snippets

message: Perhaps not central to Capablanca's career, but interesting nonetheless, is that his widow I believe survived him by 50 years or so, interacting with modern chess players such as Seirawan. I think a section about this might be an interesting addition to the article.--Jrm2007 (talk) 09:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Her name was Olga Capablanca Clark. Somewhere I saw an article about her, but I can't remember where, unfortunately. Krakatoa (talk) 07:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, there is a pretty long article which could be referenced here if it is thought appropriate, but in other bios I have seen it questioned whether widows/offspring who are not in themselves independently notable should be mentioned.--Jrm2007 (talk) 02:05, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Widow 

message: I've removed the claim in the article that Capablanca went 9-0 in a second 1913 tournament in Havana. It is supported by Chessmetrics - Havana, 1913 - but no other source AFAIK. No such tournament is shown in Fred Reinfeld, The Immortal Games of Capablanca, Macmillan, 1974, p. 17; nor in Harry Golombek, Capablanca's 100 Best Games of Chess, David McKay, 1978, pp. 36-37, ; nor in David Hooper and Dale Brandreth, The Unknown Capablanca, R.H.M. Press, 1975, p. 170, ; nor in Rogelio Caparros, The Official Games of Jose Raul Capablanca, Caissa Editions, 1991, p. 115, . Nor is Capablanca's alleged 9-0 victory shown in any list of perfect scores that I know of. I know it is not in the perfect score lists in Hooper and Whyld's Oxford Companion to Chess, Sunnuck's Encyclopaedia of Chess, and Soltis' Book of Chess Lists. I assume Sonas is not just making this up, but given the total lack of support in books that should reflect such a tournament, I don't think it is reliable enough to include. See WP:RS.Krakatoa (talk) 06:58, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have since learned that this was a series of three three-game clock simultaneous matches. Capablanca won all nine games. See Winter, "Capa's Clean Sweep", February 1986 British Chess Magazine, pp. 58-60; Winter, Capablanca, pp. 69-71. Krakatoa (talk) 22:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

text: "Phantom tournaments"? Is this the traditional Christmas ghost story? Merry Christmas, everyone. --Philcha (talk) 12:23, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phantom tournaments 

message: *Capablanca on Moscow, 1925] proposes "Capa chess"
*Reminiscences by Capablanca - his dealings w Lasker
*Capablanca: How I Learned to Play Chess 
*Capablanca on his Predecessors - notably Steinitz, Lasker and especially Morphy 
*How Capablanca Became World Champion 
*The Genius and the Princess (Winter)
*Olga Capablanca Clark (Winter)
*Rules for Brittania (Kollar) - "where Capablanca came up with the notorious "London Rules", instigating bad blood between" himself and Alekhine"
*107 great chess battles, 1939-1945 (Alekhine) - Londin Rules designed to head off challenges indef  --Philcha (talk) 23:51, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: I think it would be better to move this to José Capablanca. His middle name is almost never used in text. 00:37, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. "José Raúl Capablanca" is way more common than "José Capablanca" in my experience. See e.g. FIDE press report, and look through the titles at Books about Capablanca and Alekhine compiled by Edward Winter (chess historian). Peter Ballard (talk) 00:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, no move.  Bubba73 (talk), 04:41, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  move to José Capablanca? 

message: The match result versus Boris Kostic, 1919, is incorrect.  It was a best of 10 games match, which Capablanca won with a score of 5 wins, 0 losses, 0 draws.  After the 5th win, Kostic resigned the match.  I don't feel like citing this from books, so someone else do so, and fix it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.48.16.180 (talk) 21:52, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The Oxford Companion and Golombek's encyclopedia mention the match, but they don't say anything about it being the best of ten.  Bubba73 (talk), 00:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  It wasn't. "There was a purse of 2500 dollars and the first to win eight games would be the winner. Kostic was put firmly in his place; he lost the first five games in succession and resigned the match." Edward Winter, World Chess Champions, p. 58. Krakatoa (talk) 18:13, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  1919 versus Kostic 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :José Raúl Capablanca's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "WinterCapablancaVsAlekhine1927":
From World Chess Championship:  Regarding a possible "two-game lead" clause, Winter cites Capablanca's messages to Julius Finn and Norbert Lederer dated 15 October 1927, in which he proposed that, if the Buenos Aires match were drawn, the second match could be limited to 20 games. Winter cites La Prensa 30 November 1927 for Alekhine's conditions for  a return match.
From FIDE: 
From Alexander Alekhine:  Original sources include:
*;
*;
*;
Immediately after his victory, Alekhine announced his terms for a rematch, reported in: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 11:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:José Raúl Capablanca]] 

message: I have edited the bit about Lasker's purported 1920 resignation in favor of Capablanca, and Capablanca's acceptance of that. I added a sentence from Winter to the effect that the chess world regarded this as illegitimate, considering that the champion can't designate his successor, and thus regarded Capablanca as being champion only by virtue of having won their 1921 match. I think if one looks at the reference books, they will show universal agreement on that. Capablanca's reign is always given as beginning in 1921, not 1920. Note that the sentence about Capablanca being the only one besides Kramnik to take the title without losing a game only makes sense if one is talking about a challenger wresting the title. If Capablanca is deemed to have been the reigning champion, and Lasker the challenger, one would also have to mention Lasker-Marshall 1907 and Lasker-Janowski 1910; in both of those matches, Lasker (like Capa in '21, if Capa was already the champion) successfully defended his title without losing a single game. Krakatoa (talk) 03:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point about "Capablanca's reign is always given as beginning in 1921, not 1920". In fact I think the article should explicitly say that, and a 1 ref tag that includes a few sources will verify well enough. The problem is where to place this material, as we now have 2 parallel threads: resignation -> match -> one-sided result; and resignation -> match -> Capa's championship started 1921. How about placing the world's disapproval of L's nominating a successor and the start date of Capa's championship after the "one-sided result" para? --Philcha (talk) 07:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lasker's purported 1920 resignation of title, and 1921 match 

message: "Boris Spassky, World Champion from 1969 to 1972, considered Capablanca the best player of all time."
Didn't Spassky also declare Alekhine the greatest player ever? Toccata quarta (talk) 22:29, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spassky 

message: This article states: '...because of having been disturbed in time trouble by the bystanding Max Euwe.' Is this correct English, or can someone understand and correct the syntax (bystanding is fine with me)? Geologist (talk) 03:09, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I've fixed it.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:19, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification 

message: In all the articles about Capa I've only seen him called the "chess machine" (sometimes just "the machine" if a second reference) by his contemporaries, never as the "human chess machine" as in the intro here. He lived long before chess programs or dedicated chess computers. Dunno about the capitalization though. --72.70.20.69 (talk) 05:15, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Human" Chess Machine? 

message: Major house reorganization atm but Golembek's book on Capablanca's 100 best games  -which I still have somewhere is unequivocal that he was always a professional Cuban diplomat & this helped him travelling round.  Please advise if I've missed something on the talk page, or I'll put it in.  JRPG (talk) 20:02, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what you're getting at since I don't see that claim in the article.  The distinction between amateur and professional doesn't mean a lot in chess.  FIDE briefly had an amateur world champion, but abandoned it.  Max Euwe is sometimes considered an amateur world champion.  Quale (talk) 04:59, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Greetings Quale & sorry I wasn't exactly clear,-last edit before watching footie! I've now found the book which says he entered the Cuban Foreign office in 1913 in a well paid job which allowed him substantial travelling. Whilst amateur/professional distinction is irrelevant at this level except perhaps in the UK, the job was a significant part of his life & I had expected it to be included. Unless its been discussed & excluded, I'll add a snippet which I hope will improve the article.  Regards JRPG (talk) 09:57, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops ..I'd missed the bit under world title contender. JRPG (talk) 14:31, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capablanca was the only amateur world champion 

message: Re your good faith comments about bitter enemies, the description was about right,  The article already says  Their relationship became bitter.  
This reference says Botvinnik observed that Alekhine had received much schooling from Capablanca in positional play, before their fight for the world title made them bitter enemies.  I don't have it to hand but one of Harry Golombek's books -probably the Game of Chess -as I've checked and can't find it in Capablanca's 100 best games (Bell & Son 1959) -refers to their mutual hatred and describes them passing each other in a narrow corridor each trying to pretend the other didn't exist.  This site says His bitter rival Alekhine wrote on Capablanca’s death, “With his death, we have lost a very great chess genius whose like we shall never see again.”  Feel free to discuss but I'll add a link -which as you highlighted -is needed. Regards JRPG (talk) 21:50, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that popular chess writing is notoriously riddled with anecdotes and exaggerations when it comes to historical players, and it's difficult to sort out the facts from the fabrications. Edward Winter (pomposity and all) is one of the very few writers I trust in this regard. MaxBrowne (talk) 01:38, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Have refound ref 2 in the article -Golombek's book Capablanca's 100 best games.  The preface has a lengthy description which says "everyone is fully aware of the quarrel and even enmity .. between these two great masters" which split the chess world.  It also refers to their "hated rival." Interestingly it also refers to the German edition of the 1927 New York tournament book as an "excellent illustration of the systematic deprecation employed by one of the worlds greatest annotators."  This is now available in English complete with "an anti-Capablanca agenda." I'm happy to email a scan of pages ix-xi of the preface but it seems clear that the word enmity is appropriate. Regards JRPG (talk) 16:06, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capablanca -Alekhine bitter enemies. 

message: Chessgames.com is not a complete database of a player's games, nor is it a particularly reliable source. Also, it makes no distinction between formal or first-class games and off-hand games. A lot of Morphy's surviving games are offhand games, many of them involving odds. It is misleading to use figures from this site to compare players; besides this the editor who introduced these figures has a long history of pushing his "Morphy is the greatest of all time" POV, usually as an IP. MaxBrowne (talk) 08:28, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Firstly thanks for the response. I reluctantly concede defeat as odds games and games against NN should not be considered. Regards JRPG (talk) 09:16, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Concede defeat? Never mind that, nobody's trying to "win". The focus is on improving the encylopedia and presenting the facts without bias.MaxBrowne (talk) 13:00, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

text: FWIW I agree -I really don't think its worth spending too much time on comparisons as it will always end up as a matter of opinion. The modern grading systems would give an idea of relative strength and exclude odds games but they aren't available.  Golombek's book p2 compares Capablanca & Morphy saying Morphy retired at 22 and had Capablanca retired at the same age he would also have been deemed invincible but defeat aged 38 by Alekhine had a very negative effect. Apologies to MaxBrowne if I seemed a little grumpy earlier -I'm told chess brings out the worst type of competitive edge in me. :)  Regards JRPG (talk) 17:24, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  quoting percentages from chessgames 

message: The study is controversial and comes with several caveats. It doesn't prove that Capablanca played better than the other world champions, only that of the world champions, his style was most similar to Crafty's (and later, Rybka's). The engines were running on a shallow depth of only 12 ply, and many of the "errors" that they picked up on probably weren't errors at all. Finally it's hardly surprising that Tal shows a higher error rate than Capablanca or Petrosian or Kramnik, this is simply a consequence of his attacking style and preference for complicated positions. Other "safe" players like Ulf Andersson and Wolfgang Uhlmann would probably score higher than Tal if they were included in the study, but that doesn't make them better players. MaxBrowne (talk) 03:52, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Engine analysis study 

message: I have expanded the lead based on the following scheme. The rough model is the Bobby Fischer article. 4 paragraphs per MOS:LEAD
* Basic description
* Early results, up to winning of world title
* Loss of title up to death
* Playing style, writing etc.
Kingsindian ♝♚ 23:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you misunderstood what I said above. I did not say I followed the exact model of the Bobby Fischer article: I said I used it as a rough model. I did not write the Bobby Fischer lead: if I had, I would have preferred that the article follow a similar model to this one. There are no "rules" for writing a lead - I used a scheme which seemed sensible to me. I am not sure why it is important to put the 8 year undefeated record in the first rather than the second paragraph. Also, I don't know who gave Capablanca the nickname "human chess machine" if it's even true, and why it should be mentioned in the lead. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 15:54, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

text: The problem is that of reliable sourcing. Yes, I've heard the "human chess machine" nickname. That said we need to have solid cites for it. CG.com cannot be used as a reliable source for biographies. I'm not being disrespectful of them because a lot of their writing is good, but we have particular standards we have to meet in terms of backing up claims. As for the "greatest" claim, crucially it says "many consider". Yes it's a little wishy-washy, but it's pretty solid. I remember the comment elsewhere, that you don't need a cite to say the sky is blue. A few players can legitimately be talked of in this way. Jkmaskell (talk) 16:17, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

text: Chess professionals use ChessBase, also cg.com is the most incomplete online database; I am a registered user of that site and often log in, I've read a lot of their biographies, they are not reliable at all; several of them are outdated and contain serious mistakes. Sophia91 (talk) 16:38, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

text: I'm talking about a reliable source with regards to biography. The games themselves can be linked from there acceptably, but the prose from the player bios would need checking. CG.com is well-known for being incomplete or not always accurate. It also doesn't meet the standards of a third party source. If you look up wikipolicy there's quite a lot of info of what a reliable source is. Certainly when I've gone through some bios there, I cannot find supportive evidence for it and so cannot include it here, however much I would want to quote CG. It simply doesnt meet that standard. As for demanding that I find one, think of all the biographies written (I'm talking books here) about, or referring to Capablanca using the term. Jkmaskell (talk) 16:42, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  To clarify my position, I am opposed to the inclusion of the "human chess machine" on both WP:RS grounds and WP:UNDUE grounds. To repeat, it is not clear to me who gave Capablanca this nickname, and why it should be mentioned in the lead, let alone the first paragraph. As to the 8-year-old undefeated claim, there are a few points. Firstly, it is already mentioned in the lead, in the second paragraph. One does not need to repeat it. Secondly, note that part of the time period overlaps with WW1 - it's not that Capablanca played continuously during the period. If you look at the streak of number of games instead of number of years, Mikhail Tal has the two longest streaks. Lastly, arguing over who's the "greatest" is a mug's game. Capablanca is my favourite player, but I don't consider him the greatest, whatever that term means. It is already mentioned in the lead that "many consider" him the greatest, and that is good enough. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 10:39, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  There are certainly reliable sources for the name "the Chess Machine". Edward Winter cites the American Chess Journal 1921 here. A search on "chess machine" + "Capablanca" on google books also turns up Chess Review 1943 and British Chess Magazine 1944. There's also a Reinfeld book from 1952. MaxBrowne (talk) 13:14, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expanded lead per [[MOS:LEAD]] 

message: There is a widely debated topic on chess history, it is not clear whether it is based on facts or rumours/speculations. the topic is: "Alekhine-Capablanca world championship rematch." Some believe Alekhine avoided Capablanca and some believe contrary, ALekhine gave him a chance but Capa did not use it. can wikipedia enlighten all of us on this matter? p.s: I am not good at wikipedia, I cant add references and e.t.c.
if you decide to create an article on this, these may be useful:
http://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/only-chess/alekhine-apparently-was-willing-to-play-capablanca.21996 the site itself is not a reliable site but the OP might have used something reliable but unfortunately, I clicked on his/her link and it does not open. if you can find it archieved, it may be usefull.
and this one maybe usefull: https://www.chess.com/article/view/alexander-alekhine-part-5-singing-the-middle-aged-blues  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sir artur (talk • contribs) 15:12, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  proposal about alekhine-capablanca rematch controversy 

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*Added  tag to http://labatechess.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=133&products_id=237
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081020142455/http://www.endgame.nl/AVRO1938.htm to http://www.endgame.nl/AVRO1938.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091126000035/http://chess.eusa.ed.ac.uk/Chess/Trivia/AlltimeList.html to http://chess.eusa.ed.ac.uk/Chess/Trivia/AlltimeList.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120309155451/http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PeakList.asp?Params=199510SSSSS1S000000000000111000000000000010100 to http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PeakList.asp?Params=199510SSSSS1S000000000000111000000000000010100
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120309154749/http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PeakList.asp?Params=199510SSSSS5S000000000000111000000000000010100 to http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PeakList.asp?Params=199510SSSSS5S000000000000111000000000000010100
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120309155152/http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PeakList.asp?Params=199510SSSSSTS000000000000111000000000000010100 to http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PeakList.asp?Params=199510SSSSSTS000000000000111000000000000010100
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120309154756/http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PeakList.asp?Params=199510SSSSSFS000000000000111000000000000010100 to http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PeakList.asp?Params=199510SSSSSFS000000000000111000000000000010100
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050320091409/http://batgirl.atspace.com/LaskerMagazine.html to http://batgirl.atspace.com/LaskerMagazine.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ra%C3%BAl_Capablanca#/media/File:Capablanca_vs_Alekhine_1914.jpg
This image accompanies the section of the article on the 1914 tournament, but the photograph is from an exhibition in 1913. I have amended the title with the correct information. The position behind the players can be found here https://www.365chess.com/tournaments/St_Petersburg_exhibition_1913/27307# in the only game which Alekhine plays black. If this seems dubious, please check the only game in which Alekhine has the black pieces in the 1914 tourney, it never appears to be like the one behind the players, nor the position which they have on the board. I'm indifferent on the placement of the photograph though, I feel that an argument could be made for both it being moved/removed but also for it staying there, it is a superb photo which is representative of Capablanca's and Alekhine's first encounter.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Locke1 (talk • contribs) 07:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  media/File:Capablanca_vs_Alekhine_1914.jpg 

message: Emanuel Lasker article is wlink'd 60 times in this article. (To distinguish between Emanuel and Edward?! There must be a better way.) --IHTS (talk) 04:48, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  59 too many?