Talk:Symphony No. 4 (Bruckner)

message: The article encloses some - at least - doubtful information on the versions. There have been three versions in total of this symphony.
To the Original and Second Verions: Bruckner's Fourth was, according to competent music dictionaries, originally composed in 1874. It was revised in 1878 (Cuts in the first two movements, replacement of the Scherzo [Jagd-Schrezo = Hunt-Scherzo] revision of the finale) and in 1880 he largely recomposed the finale. This so-called Second Version has been premièred 1881 by the Wiener Philharmoniker under the baton of Hans Richter.
Later-on there have been more re-workings, not all of them by the composer - or even authorize by him - that lead eventually to a Third Version.
-- Innik 12:15, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the linked discography, both Barenboim recordings are of Haas/1881.  "Original version" can mean many different things in the world of Bruckner symphonies.  Even Haas's hybrid edition of the 8th symphony was advertised as the "originalfassung" ("original version") when published in the 30s:  it was indeed "original", but in a completely different sense! Grover cleveland 02:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many versions? 

message: At the end of the very informative new section "Bruckner's Fourth Symphony and the Bruckner Problem", there is an extensive passage in italics.  I wonder whether this is a direct quotation, or whether it got formatted in italics by accident:
:There is no evidence that Bruckner "refused" to sign the Stichvorlage. He may have omitted to do so, but this is also true of other Bruckner manuscripts whose authenticity is not doubted. Furthermore, there is no real evidence that Bruckner was forced to accept revisions in order to get the work published, as Haas claimed. The only condition that Gutmann made prior to publication was that he be paid 1,000 fl. in advance to cover his costs. Once this money was delivered to him, he would have been quite happy, presumably, to print whatever version of the symphony Bruckner sent him.
If this is a direct quotation, we should offer a citation and I would suggest indent by using a device such as . Grover cleveland 02:34, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Korstvedt quote??

message: Thanks for adding the table of versions.  I made a change:  Manuscript 19476 contains the 1880 finale, not the Volksfest.  You can see that in this catalog of the library's holdings. Grover cleveland 19:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Table of versions

message: I'm not sure Richter should be referred to as an aristocrat - according to http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=41:69091~T1 his father was a Kapellmeister and his mother a professional singer. He was certainly successful and wealthy but according to the same source was concerned about his pension. A minor detail but worth checking out. Timribchester (talk) 17:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Richter: aristocrat? 

message: Although it is written on the back-cover of Profil CD PH13049 that it is Carragan's edition of the 1878 version, Gerd Schaller actually used Nowak's edition for movements 1-3 and the Volkfest-Finale for movement 4, as Uwe-Christian Haller already did in 1996. See John Berky's discography. We are thus still waiting for a recording of Carragan's edition of the 1878 version. --Réginald alias Meneerke bloem (To reply) 10:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gerd Schaller's used version 

message: There are actually three versions of the symphony with several variants:
* First version: 1874. Edited by Nowak
* Second version: 1878. A "simplified" version with in-depth revision of the first two movements, a new scherzo and a new finale ("Volkfest Finale").
** The 1880 version is a " hybrid version" (aka 1878/1880), with the first three movements of the 1878 version and a new (third) finale. This version has thereafter been revised in 1881 (edited by Haas) and 1886 (edited by Nowak).
* Third version: 1887 – the final version, somewhat shortened and re-orchestrated, revised in 1888 (edited by Korstvedt), and first issued in 1889.
--Réginald alias Meneerke bloem (To reply) 20:18, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The versions and their variants 

message: IMO the section Symphony_No._4_(Bruckner)#Performances is too promotional. I would thus propose to remove it. --Réginald alias Meneerke bloem (To reply) 09:52, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, just the last sentence - if with a reference - would be worth keeping, in history perhaps. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:07, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for your advice. I have done it. --Réginald alias Meneerke bloem (To reply) 15:34, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A too promotional section?