Talk:Sonority hierarchy

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In english as well as other germanic languages there are a lot of words beginning with sp, st etc., which obviously violate the sonority hierarchy. Are there any "explanations" for this, or at least some attempts to make it fit into the theory? --Schuetzm 18:54, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The best explanation I know of is simply to say that sibilants are best treated as an exception. 84.70.37.244 20:23, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In phonology we studied the idea of a phonotactic "index," which would be a segment or natural class of segments that can be added to word boundaries, such as sonorants in French (no good examples come to mind) or /s/ in English.  In essence this is saying the same thing as /s/ is best treated as an exception, but it at least gives a little more info behind the idea. Coyne025 14:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exceptions to the [[Sonority Sequencing Principle]] 

message: Can a sound change violate the sonority hierarchy? --84.61.62.55 12:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sound change 

message: I added some categories here, but I'm sure there's at least one more set of categories that I missed.  If anyone knows what they are, feel free to put them in 
-- TimNelson 13:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Approximants are covered by liquids and (nonsyllabic) high vowels in the chart. —Angr 18:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorisation 

message: Hello. Congratulations for the article. I have some questions about it:
It is written: 
"In English, the sonority scale, from lowest to the highest, is the following:
[[p t k] [b d g] [f θ] [v ð z] [s] [m n] [l] [r] [i u] [e o] [a]]"
*Shouldn't it be: [f θ s] [v ð z] [m n ŋ] [l] [r] [j w] [i u], or maybe [f θ] [v ð] [s z] [m n ŋ] [l] [r] [j w] [i u]?
*How about: [tʃ dʒ], [ʃ ʒ], and [h]?
Thanks for reading this message. Best wishes!--Alpinu (talk) 00:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Questions

message: Can someone track down the origin of the concept and term in modern linguistics? LokiClock (talk) 01:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of concept 

message: The chart on this page assigns nasals the feature +CONT. I've never seen a situation where this is the appropriate analysis. I have always understood nasals to be defined by the values -CONT and +SON. There doesn't seem to be a source for the chart on the page anyways. As long as it doesn't correspond to any reference can we change it or find something to cite?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.17.10.66 (talk) 16:08, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nasals 

message: In the table with distinctive features, the use of "delayed release" is inconsistent with the description at Delayed_release_(feature): that page claims that the feature separates affricates from fricatives, not fricatives from (oral) stops. According to , "delrel" is "−" for oral stops, "+" for affricates, and "0" for everything else. neatnate (talk) 01:49, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delayed release 

message: Could sb. please add whether, regarding the horizontal axis,  back vowels (o) more sonorous than front ones (e)? Thanks in advance.--Backinstadiums (talk) 12:01, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vowel backness 

message: Citations aside, this entire section is basically a meme. Nicodene (talk) 19:58, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Ecological patterns in sonority' 

message: The two linked sources (3 and 4) for the Sonority Scale table are dead links, and upon checking them with the Wayback Machine, one can find that the table was copied verbatim from there, and there are no other explanations at the linked pages. However, a publication named "Phonological analysis: A functional approach" is mentioned. I've managed to get a look at a copy at a revised edition of said publication (ISBN: 1556710674), and it's possible to find that the same table was copied verbatim from page 149 of said publication.
There isn't further explanation along with the table as to what "complex plosives" are, other than a hint ("complex, e.g., aspirated, plosives"), and that is the only occurrence of the term across the whole book. There are, however, some further hints scattered around the book as to what "complex consonants" might be:
So, this gives a decent idea as to what a "complex consonant" might be: co-articulated consonants, secondary articulation points (eg, palatalisation, glottalisation, etc.), aspirated consonants, prenasalised consonants, etc. That would contradict the statement on this article that English has no complex plosives, as aspirated voiceless plosives are word-initial allophones for voiceless plosives across many English dialects.
I find that very unsatisfactory, though, as that publication seems to not even be the source of the term "complex plosive"; the definition of such term is nowhere to be found within Wikipedia, and a quick web search mostly leads back to this article itself, a Reddit page that points to this article, and some academic publications that use the term but do not define it. There is a footnote at the same page as the table that says "For a similar notion in terms of degree of stricture, see E. Pike 1954.", but I haven't managed to even find what that might be. Tanshoku (talk) 17:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Complex Plosives" 

message: too many links seems to be unavailable. Stjohn1970 (talk) 16:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  broken or innacessible links 

message: In the table, nasals are described as +continuant. Nasals are not continuants. See the relevant article. Flawja (talk) 20:49, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nasals as continuants