Talk:Dromaeosauridae

message: The above sentence is what I should have asked you, dinoguy2. Some researchers did once say this, but I think they have all changed their minds.
You write;
This minority of researchers researchers (such as Alan Feduccia, Larry Martin, Gregory S. Paul,[10] and Stephen Czerkas[11]) have considered dromaeosaurids to be more advanced than Archaeopteryx, and therefore members of the clade (or class) Aves.
Greg Paul did put them closer in 1988, which is the ref you used, but as of Dinosaurs of the Air, 2002, he has changed his mind.
On page 192, in a section on on Archaeopteryx and dromaeosaurs;
“…the evidence clearly shows that they and other dromaeo-avemorphs were much more intimately related to one another than to any other dinosaurs or birds.”
Also, his phylogenetic diagram on page 24 shows Archie and dromies sharing a stem to the exclusion of all other groups. In his scheme there is not a monophyletic group that includes modern birds and dromies to the exclusion of archie.
You give no ref for Larry Martin, but he seems to defer to Paul on this. On page 50 of  A Basal Archosaurian Origin For Birds, 2004, he says;
"He(Paul) gives explanation to relationships that have been expressed in
numerous cladograms placing various dinosaurs closer to modern birds than
to archaeopteryx. Implicit in such examples is a common ancestor similar
to Archaeopteryx."
Martin does not cite these cladograms with various dinos closer to birds, but he is citing Paul as his authority, so he must mean Paul 1988. But he also references Paul 2002, who no longer believes that dromies are closer to modern birds than archie.
The ref you give for Czerkas, Feathered Dinosaurs and the Origin of Flight, 2002, has a phylogenetic diagram on page 120 that puts the evolutionary steps like this;
Scansoriopteryx
 Maniraptors (incl. dromaeosaurs)
  Archaeopteryx
   Enantiornithines (incl. Confuciusornis)
    Ornithurines
     Modern birds
So, again, there is no way to group dromies and modern birds more closely and exclude Archie. She apparently, never said that.
I could not find anywhere that Feduccia says that dromies are closer to modern birds than archie at all. You give no ref for this either. In Birds Are Dinosaurs: Simple Answer to a Complex Problem, The Auk, 2002, he says that it is impossible to know how closely birds are related to maniraptorans due to convergence.
On page 1198 he says;
"Like the intractable problem of pterosaur origins, the precise nature of bird origins from archosaurs, despite current dogma, still remains elusive."
Do you, then,  have any later references where anyone says birds and dromies are closer? If you don't I think we should remove that part from the Relationship with Birds section, as it is out of date.Jbrougham (talk) 19:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. Can't we simply make it past tense? Dinoguy2 (talk) 20:07, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Does anyone STILL put Dromaeosaurs closer to modern birds than to Archaeopteryx?

message: * A taxobox
* Some greater clarity about exactly which dinosaurs belong in this group
The Singing Badger 18:23, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed the sinornithosaurs--will add them to their own family, Microraptoria, per most current research. Dinoguy2 05:40, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: What this page needs

message: From the article:
::This also leads to the question whether all dromaeosaurids bore feathers, which at this point is uncertain.
Given that much more primitive dinosaurs like Dilong and Sinosauropteryx had feathers, the fact that basal maniraptoran Pedopenna had dromaeosaur-like hind wings, and the fact that even primitive dromaeosaurs had fully developed wings, I don't think there is any uncertainty that all dromaeosaurs had feathers, at least to some extent. Even the few researchers who still believe that birds are not theropods include dromaeosaurids as birds, not dinosaurs. This sentence is misleading. Dinoguy2 20:46, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification Issues 

message: I just removed:
Discussion about the relationship between birds and dinosaurs has mostly narrowed to whether bird ancestors lie within Dromaeosauridae or not. In order to exclude them, one recent cladistic analysis (Senter, 2004) has gone so far as to remove these three genera from Dromaeosauridae in the strict sense, and the authors created a new closely related taxon Microraptoria for them. Thus under this re-classification, it can still be claimed that there have been no reports of fossil feathers in Dromaeosauridae.
This is not the case. Senter named the clade Microraptoria because, while he found them to be a subfamily in dromaeosauridae, there's a fair possibility that this will change in futture phylogenies. Thereofre, he used a non-family ending just in case (-ia instead of -inae). This was not a concious decision to "remove" them from dromaeosaurs, just an admission that they might remove themselves naturally with more evidence.The Thagomizer 01:01, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Microraptoria 

message: Just reverted these--while they're good, and I think they do a better job of getting the points across, I have a few problems. The bulk of the new material is unsourced, and while it's a case of "this stuff is common knowledge to paleophiles", it really does need sources in the proper format. Some of the material was sourced, but just with parentheticals that did not match the format of the rest of the page. I also think the title of the section should be as short as possible. I'd work on making these modifications when I get some time, but for right now, if anybody could work on getting the sources in, I'd have no objection to re-adding this section... Dinoguy2 00:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to the bird relationships section 

message: :GA review (see here for criteria)
#It is reasonably well written.
#:a (prose):  b (MoS): 
#It is factually accurate and verifiable.
#:a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
#It is broad in its coverage.
#:a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
#It follows the neutral point of view policy.
#:Fair representation without bias: 
#It is stable.
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#It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
#:a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 
#Overall: 
#:Pass/Fail: </div>
Thank you for working so much on this article, there are only two minor problems:
*Jurassic dromaeosaurs are known primarily from teeth. (from lead) I have no idea what this means.
*The "Characteristics" section needs a source. 
I'll promote when these are adressed. :)  -Yamanbaiia 19:08, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the review! I've tried to address the issues you mentioned, please let us know if there is any further work you'd like to see done before promotion. Dinoguy2 00:42, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, thank you! This article could become a FA very quickly. Great article, really. Yamanbaiia 01:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's wonderful to hear. Thanks again for the review and comments. :) Firsfron of Ronchester 02:41, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA review 

message: "As late as 2001, Norell et al. analyzed all the relevant fossils and concluded that birds were, in fact, advanced dromaeosaurids"
:Wow! I find this extremely, extremely surprising. I don't have access to the source unfortunately but... Can we get a quote or something where the authors state modern birds belong to the clade dromaeosauridae? What definition were they using? Most I've seen use birds as an external specifier. 
I can't find where they specify their definition, but they cite Gauthier (1986), and they cite the apomorphies they used. They find a monophyletic Avialae containing Archie, Rahonavis, and Confuciusornis, and it is in a multitomy with ten dromaeosaur genera.Jbrougham (talk) 16:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's the actual paper. I found it on this page. Firsfron of Ronchester 08:27, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok, here's the misunderstanding--it appears that with the definitions they're using, birds are not dromaeosaurids. Rather, most things we think of as dromaeosaurids are not. Unless birds are closer to Dromaeosaurus than to birds (obviously impossible), they can't be dromaeosaurids. In fact, the authors go even farther and based on that quote, seem to consider dromaeosauridae disbanded all together! Then they qualify that by saying it's probably lack of resolution. This in no way is tantamount to including Avialae within the clade dromaeosauridae... Dinoguy2 (talk) 16:07, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, never mind anyway--just saw your latest rewrite of the text, which states the situation correctly. Thanks for fixing it up! Dinoguy2 (talk) 16:09, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birds = dromaeosaurids in 2001?? 

message: This is an issue that concerns all biology articles really... I'm trying to tone down the ridiculously extreme jargon used in some of these diagnosis sections. Even I have a hard time understanding some of this stuff without an anatomical dictionary handy, I imagine 99% of readers would have absolutely no idea what we're talking about. I've tried to tone this stuff down in other articles, but had trouble here--it would require a big expansion mainly explaining what all these anatomical terms mean. In the end, is all this really information your average reader would ever need to know? Maybe we can ditch most of it and just mention a few major distinguishing points (like the long chevrons in the tail and large digit 2, which are already discussed in depth in the article. Honestly, I think anybody who would think " caudolateral overhanging shelf of the squamosal" is interesting or useful information, or who would know that yes, that's written in English, would already own The Dinosauria and would not be using Wikipedia to look that up ;) Dinoguy2 (talk) 05:34, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diagnosis 

message: Shouldn't this be redirecting? --Veratien (talk) 23:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean the article should have that spelling? Accents, umlauts, and so forth are prohibited by Article 27 of the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature . J. Spencer (talk) 01:48, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In which case, why does the scientific community insist on using ae in names? ;) --Veratien (talk) 13:24, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That I couldn't say. Are there any classicists who also do scientific nomenclature in the house? J. Spencer (talk) 15:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: My guess? It's traditional, and it's easier to adapt names with æ to ae for standard spelling than it is to go back and rename thousands of taxa simply because æ has effectively become extinct as a letter ;) A lot of standardizing took place in the late 19th century. See also the abolition of dashes and such (Ptero-Dactyle -> Pterodactylus, Troödon -> Troodon, -idæ -> -idae). Dinoguy2 (talk) 01:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Its how they name families and such. While the general idea of Linnean taxonomy has been disbanded, there are still families, subfamilies, superfamilies, subgenuses, orders, superorders, etc. being named. -dae is the standard suffix for a family, -inae is for subfamily, -oidea is for superfamily, and from there it gets kind of messy, no real standardized suffix. The recognizable difference between Linnaean Taxonomy and cladistics is that now we don't have to give groups specific names, and make them fit into a specific type of group, like subfamily. That's how we get things like FlagicaudataMetalraptor (talk) 16:28, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dromæosauridæ, surely? 

message: I don't know why the article completely dismisses the pack theory. Tyrannosaurs hunted in packs, and they were coelurosaurs, and since Dromaeosaurs were descended from coelurosaurs they may have acted in a similar way. Deinonychus's intelliugence can be compared to that of a modern ostrich, and ostriches live in groups. I wouldn't bet on them acting like modern reptiles, I think they behaved like Ostriches. Elasmosaurus (talk) 03:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. Dromaeosaurs and tyrannosaurs and such took the place of wolves, big cats, and such in their environment. While some species, like tigers, leopards, and jaguars today, would have hunted alone, other species would have hunted in packs, like wolves and lions. The whole "dromaeosaurs, allosaurs, and tyrannosaurs were not pack hunters theory" stems mostly from a single article, which states that because no archosaur today (birds and crocodiles) hunts in groups, dinosaurs must not have either. There are multiple holes in this idea. First of all, crocodiles and birds are highly derived from their archosaurian ancestors. And some predatory birds do hunt in groups. Seabirds have been seen working together to hunt fish, and both the Harris' Hawk and the Ferrugineous Hawk work together to hunt prey (unusually, the Ferrugenous Hawk appears to be the most ground-adapted of the Buteos). Third, and finally, we do have some evidence of family groupings in some dinosaurs, Albetosaurus, Daspletosaurus, Allosaurus, Mapusaurus, some dromaeosaurids, and possibly even T-rex. (And Dinoguy, I know you're going to pounce on me for this, finding numerous adults of varying ages in a site where there are little to no herbivore remains present certainly means something is up, I'm not referring to Cleveland-Lloyd, that is obviously a predator trap). Unfortunately, short of a time machine, there is no way to settle this argument one way or another.Metalraptor (talk) 16:35, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pack Conroversy 

message: Did Dromaeosaurs have a keel? I've done a Google search and the pictures seem to show that they didn't. If this is the case it needs to be mentioned in the "relationship to birds" section. 122.109.250.74 (talk) 07:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, many prehistoric birds lacked a keeled sternum. Those that had it are traditionally grouped together as the Carinatae. Since even many Mesozoic birds lacked this feature, I don't think it's very important to the subject of dromaeosaurs relationship to birds. Dinoguy2 (talk) 01:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keel 

message: Why is it used as an example of how birds or crocs don't hunt together? It's not a very crocodile-like animal. Narayanese (talk) 14:41, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't being used as an example for birds and crocs, it's being used as an analog (comparison) for dromaeosaur behavior; the article first explains that birds and crocs don't hunt together, so dromaeosaurs probably didn't, then introduces komodo dragon behavior as an analog for what dromaeosaur behavior would probably have been like (in that author's opinion, at least). 75.211.224.35 (talk) 07:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're replying to an old post, the passage has since been reworded. Narayanese (talk) 16:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I know that the post has been reworded, but so you're telling me a slow-moving, poikilothermic lizard who depends on the poison in its mouth to kill prey before tracking it down is a suitable analog for a moderately intelligent, fast-moving, warm-blooded dromaeosaur? That makes no sense. Maybe using a Komodo Dragon for Megalania, but using it for a dromaeosaur or any theropod for that matter makes no sense. Too bad Mekosuchus, Bullockornis, or Titanis didn't survive to the modern day. They would give us some really good analogues to theropod behavior...Metalraptor (talk) 16:38, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, I think you have the wrong idea about Komodo dragons being slow-moving and relying on bacteria to kill. Yes they have bacteria in their mouths, but normally this is incidental. Secondly, you're disagreeing with a current, published source, so even if you had a point, this isn't the venue to challenge it. Write a journal article. Dinoguy2 (talk) 02:46, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Komodo dragon 

message: The passage looks ok now (though I wonder why the two works by the same authors are referenced at different places in the sentence). I just put a verification needed tag because I can't access Memoirs of the Queensland Museum articles via my library and wanted someone to have a look that it wasn't misquoted (apperently done now). Narayanese (talk) 18:13, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cassowary 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Dromaeosauridae's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "ostrom1970":
From Deinonychus: 
From Origin of birds: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 19:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Dromaeosauridae]] 

message: Did they really hold their tails like these images show?
Spinodontosaurus (talk) 17:58, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Dromaeosaurid caudals near the base of the tail allowed for a lot of upward motion, so I know it's at least possible. I'm not sure that's the casual posture they would have adopted, but another editor could probably give a more thorough explanation. Abyssal (talk) 18:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

text: I thought it was possible but ive always enisioned the normal stance similar or the same to other theropods. Oh well, noi worries Spinodontosaurus (talk) 06:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I find this posture good for helping keep the long tails on the page when drawing :) That's the reason I used in for that Velociraptor at least. The tail base was more flexible in multiple directions than the rest of the tail (which was mainly flexible laterally, as seen in "sleeping" specimens where the tail wraps around the body in a circle), so I've always imagined the tail being flicked around like a counterbalance or for display made sense and gave them a somewhat birdy look (like the movement of a modern bird's tail feathers). Dinoguy2 (talk) 15:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats how i imagined it to. Regardless of staning posture, i think the tail was held more horizontal when running. 15:34, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Posture 

message: I've noticed all the taxoboxes on the dromaeosaurid articles now read Unenlagiidae. I suspect vandalism, but for sake of not confusing readers I temporarily moved Dromaeosauridae to Unenlagiidae; of course no automatic taxobox existed, and the page has been moved back. I have since created a copy of Template:Taxonomy/Dromaeosauridae as Template:Taxonomy/Unenlagiidae; and Unenlagiidae now redirects to Dromaeosauridae, which I think is the best course of action. What is the situation here, and what should be done about it? Lusotitan (talk) 20:39, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, for one thing, you should definitely not move a well established page like dromaeosauridae, even temporarily, if you're not sure why. Always good to check out the page histories before making huge changes. There must be some mistake with the automatic taxobox page, or maybe it's vandalism. FunkMonk (talk) 20:54, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

text: Unenlagiidae is either a junior synonym of or a distinct group from Dromaeosauridae, depending on the phylogeny used. There's certainly no reason the older name Dromaeosauridae would ever be changed to the newer name. I guess what happened is some user was reading a source published by Novas, seeing that he classifies unenlaggines in their own group, and attempted to change the family in the taxobox but accidentally changed all the dromaeosauid taxoboxs by editing the family-level template instead of the genus-level template. Dinoguy2 (talk) 10:03, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unenlagiidae 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Matthew and Brown did not name Dromaeosauridae in 1922. They named Dromaeosaurinae in 1922 yes, but Dromaeosauridae is from 1969 in an article by Colbert and Russel. Why has this gone undetected? No, do not deny me on this unless you can provide with actually good evidence--Bubblesorg (talk) 15:29, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay so I found this in article which is not true "The authorship of the family Dromaeosauridae is credited to William Diller Matthew and Barnum Brown, who erected it as a subfamily (Dromaeosaurinae) of the family Deinodontidae in 1922, containing only the new genus Dromaeosaurus.". Like the article suggest they named Dromaeosaurinae. But dromaeosauridae is different, how could naming a subfamily mean the same thing as naming a family? Oh and a name they had no mention of in the original paper, which I know for a fact because I read the original paper. What I am basically trying say is, how is naming dromaeosaurinae the same thing as naming dromaeosauridae?--Bubblesorg (talk) 15:51, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Another point. In the same section I am critiquing, it also states that they assigned Dromaeosaurine to the family Deinodontidae. It contradicts itself--Bubblesorg (talk) 15:59, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but the original family they assigned dromaeosaurus to was Deinodontidae. They just named a subfamily, that does not mean they gave it a family. Example being that Matthew and Brown also named Tyrannosaurinae. The family is Tyrannosauride (by Osborn), but that does not mean Osborn can take credit for Tyrannosaurinae. The same applies here, just because Matthew and Brown named Dromaeosaurinae does not mean they can take credit for Dromaeosauridae. The quite literately placed it in a different family than what we have now. How could they be credit for naming this family? --Bubblesorg (talk) 16:30, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's an ICZN rule. Article 36.1: "A name established for a taxon at any rank in the family group is deemed to have been simultaneously established for nominal taxa at all other ranks in the family group". Matthew and Brown 1922 is indeed the correct authority for Dromaeosauridae, according to an explicit rule of nomenclature. Ornithopsis (talk) 16:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

text:  So then Velociraptorinae should be credited to Osborn in that case.--Bubblesorg (talk) 17:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  How do you reason that? Ornithopsis (talk) 17:36, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The Velociraptor article states "When first described in 1924, Velociraptor was placed in the family Megalosauridae", so Osborn didn't erect a higher taxon for it, and the rule doesn't apply for genera. FunkMonk (talk) 17:42, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

text:  Yeah and Dromaeosaurus was placed in the family Deinodontidae in 1922--Bubblesorg (talk) 17:43, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the thing, they placed it in Dromaeosaurinae, which automatically also created Dromaeosauridae. Velociraptor was not placed in its own subfamily when it was named. FunkMonk (talk) 17:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

text: Matthew and Brown created a family-group taxon (i.e. a superfamily, family, subfamily, tribe, or subtribe—Article 35.1) for Dromaeosaurus when they named Dromaeosaurinae. As such, according to the Principle of Coordination (Article 36), they also named Dromaeosauridae in the process. Osborn did not name a family-group taxon when he named Velociraptor, only a genus and species. Therefore, he is not the authority for Velociraptorinae but Matthew and Brown are the authority for Dromaeosauridae. Ornithopsis (talk) 17:51, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  The rule says genus too, "genus group (genus and subgenus) or species group (species and subspecies)"-The Six Principles of the ICZN: Coordination. --Bubblesorg (talk) 17:54, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  It applies separately to family-group, genus-group, and species-group names. That means that Osborn is the authority for the subgenus Velociraptor (Velociraptor) and the subspecies V. mongoliensis mongoliensis, because he named a genus-group and species-group taxon. He didn't name a family-group taxon for Velociraptor and so is not the authority for any family-group names based on Velociraptor. Ornithopsis (talk) 17:58, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

text: The article clearly states "any nomen created for a taxon at any rank is deemed to have been simutaneously created at all other ranks in this series"--Bubblesorg (talk) 18:13, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, with "this series" meaning "the same rank group (family, genus, or species) as the original name". Ornithopsis (talk) 18:14, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Going back to our original conversation, I found that several scientific article states that Dromaeosauridae by Colbert and Russel. I suspect one of them is in the article? https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=O4wZCgAAQBAJ&rdid=book-O4wZCgAAQBAJ&rdot=1&source=gbs_vpt_read&pcampaignid=books_booksearch_viewport,https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352940/https://www.mindat.org/taxon-3238979.html--Bubblesorg (talk) 18:39, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unfortunately, I can't find a copy of that with searchable text, so I can't verify what if anything that paper says about it. Maybe Colbert and Russell were the first to use it at the rank of family, but the Principle of Coordination clearly indicates Matthew and Brown are the proper authority. To reiterate why the same doesn't apply for Velociraptorinae, the ICZN definition of the Principle of Coordination clearly states: "within the family group, genus group or species group a name established for a taxon at any rank in the group is deemed to be simultaneously established with the same author and date for taxa based on the same name-bearing type at other ranks in the group" (emphasis mine). Ornithopsis (talk) 18:47, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, after looking at a paper. Yeah I agree with you. Sorry for this, I just want to make sure we are not giving out false information.--Bubblesorg (talk) 19:03, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Glad to have this cleared up. I can't blame you for wondering if the information was correct; it's better to raise concerns and be wrong than to leave concerns unaddressed, after all. Ornithopsis (talk) 20:18, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sure and thanks :D--Bubblesorg (talk) 16:41, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matthew and brown? 

message: The image in the taxobox is an outdated reconstruction of Dromaeosaurids and misrepresents the taxon. I think it should be replaced--is there any reason it's still being used, or has simply no one bothered to replace it? Entelognathus (talk) 19:15, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted that junk edit. FunkMonk (talk) 19:19, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that was among the worst images imaginable that could be placed in the taxbox. Good revert. Hemiauchenia (talk) 23:11, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccurate image in taxobox 

message: is there any evidence of this? Recent media has been portraying some Dromaeosaurids with fused middle and third digits. I have yet to find an article discussing this, but it seems possible. 179.209.135.149 (talk) 01:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fused Middle and Third Digits in Dromaeosaurids