Talk:Romania/Archive 4

message: The last two sentences of the first paragraph are problematic. First of all, Orthodox also make the sign of the cross with the right hand, though we reverse the direction of crossing. Whether this is the "most striking detail" a visitor (especially a visitor from a non-Christian country) will notice is questionable. Second, to call the candle stands the "most picturesque detail" is POV--I do find them picturesque, but I and others may well find other parts (iconostasis, painted walls, etc.) of a church building more picturesque.158.143.162.119 22:47, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion section 

message: vampires live in romania its true dont revert my edits please--193.13.56.17 11:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They probably do. But you will still be reverted :-) Alexander 007 11:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  VAMPIRES 

message: "(see the six volumes: CICERONE IONIŢOIU et al., Victimele terorii comuniste. Arestaţi, torturaţi, întemniţaţi, ucişi. Dicţionar. Editura Maşina de scris, Bucureşti, 2000)" This effectively says: "read all six volumes, it's in there somewhere. Oh, and, by the way, you're going to have to read all six volumes in Romanian." This is not useful for verification. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:28, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slack citation 

message: There are way too many images in the History section - as interesting as they are, it's starting to ruin the layout of the page. Schizmatic 00:33, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: From the article:
Romania's surface area has changed over the past few decades, generally increasing. The number has increased from about 237,500 square kilometres (91,699 sq mi) in 1969 to 238,391 square kilometres (92,043 sq mi) in 2005 .
I could not find a source for the growth in total area.  Most other online encyclopedias/atlases use 237,500 sq km (91,699 sq mi).  Instead of changing the figures, I placed the citation needed tag in the infobox and article.  Hopefully, somebody has a verifiable source for 238,391 sq km. —MJCdetroit 16:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Total Area 

message: What was exactly the role of Romania during WWII? Did Romania influenced the War in closing it quicker?
:I don't really understand your question. Are you unfamiliar with its involvement in the war? Initially Romania fought on the side of the Axis powers and in a way this might have prolonged the war by aiding the advance of the Axis forces towards the East. By 1944, however Antonescu was brought down and Romania fought for the allies and this might have helped accelerate the end of the war. What the overall effect of Romania's involvement was is a subjective quetion and I don't believe that a definite answer can exist.TSO1D 18:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Romania and the WWII

message: In Romania, as a developed country of EU has an estimated cable television subscription base of up to 3.3 million, the fifth largest in Europe.--StabiloBoss 15:23, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cable TV subscription

message: I must say that this page is a textbook example of Wikipedia's flaws. 6-7 months after I've posted my comment about the overwhelming  bullshitness (pardon the language) of the economic indicators, and nobody tried to edit them. Not even the economic forecast commision under the management of the Romanian state couldn't come up with such overbloated fantasies. It was probably an overpatriotic Romanian trying to paint a rosier picture than the plain reality. Going to try and edit/remove some of them. Pirlinho 16:46, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Economic Indicators, Again

message: You'd better stick wit the floods. It is irrelevant (and it is going in the naive idea that world is going faster than ever). I could just delete it, but I want first to address this past-and-future-ignoring problem which is also affecting Bucharest.--Luci_Sandor  05:49, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2006? Sommet de la Francophonie?

message: Do you think this is needed on the main article for Romania? I would expect it to be in a separate article, currently it simply interrupts the text w/o too much of a usefull information on the subject. Yuzz 23:14, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section "Romanian heads of state (from the Unification of 1859)" 

message: There is an overabundance of pictures in the history section. In one area there are six pictures for five lines of text. These pictures are not even relevant to the text and only make reading more difficult. My view is that in the history section, the emphasis should be on useful maps and diagrams, whereas most images should be moved to the gallery section. TSO1D 17:54, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And many of them no-source copyvios... bogdan 18:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many pictures 

message: At least two of the pictures on the site (both posted by NorbertArthur) are copivio's and should be removed at once (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Oradeapanorame.750px.jpg - labled Oradea - claims to be in the public domain, however, on the site claimed as source, the copyrights are clearely assigned to a Stetco Bogdan with all rights reserved, while the image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Danube-delta._07.750pix.jpg is copyrighted to Tatiana Murzin - again all rights reserved). --Xanthar 12:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyvio's

message: How does Romania relate to the rest of the outside world?  I came here looking for info on Romanian foreign relations, but couldn't find such info (if it is in the article at all).  Could someone with more knowledge on the subject please insert a section on Romanian foreign relations?
:Try Foreign relations of Romania TSO1D 02:51, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Foreign Relations?

message: Please note that my latest edit on this (not the last at this time because of a vandal and a rev), along with previous changes by an anonymous contributor, push estimates for population and density in the infobox, as opposed to the previous numbers extracted from census data. Please comment on whether the edits are appropriate. --Gutza T T+ 00:50, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Comments 

message: Someone keeps putting the CIA World Factbook figure, which is an outlier compared to other reputable sources for population estimates. Here are figures for various sources:
*Population Reference Bureau: 21,612,000 (mid-2005)
*United Nations Population Division: 21,711,000 (mid-2005) / 21,629,270 (mid-2006)
*Romanian census: 21,680,974 (2002)
*Official Romanian government estimate: 22,408,393 (mid-2001) / 21,794,793 (mid-2002) / 21,733,956 (mid-2003) (Note the growth trend)
*World Gazetteer: 21,266,679 (2006-01-01)
*CIA World Factbook: 22,303,552 (mid-2006)
Romania has had negative population growth rate since 1990 and is highly unlikely to suddenly jump up to 22.3 million. I think for consistency, we should use the UN figure which is what the List of countries by population uses. Polaron | Talk 20:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  population estimates 

message: Herodotus of Halicarnassus (Greek: , Herodotos) was a historian who lived in the 5th century BC (484 BC-ca. 425 BC). He is known for writing The Histories, a collection of stories on different places and peoples he learned about through his travels. It includes the conflict between Greece and Persia. 
What do you know about his writings on romanians/dacians/thracians? --Preacher, or Princelet 20:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Herodotus''' & Romanians

message: I'm not pushing monarchists here, but the declaration of independence should be set to May 9, 1877. This is the date when Kogalniceanu read it in the parliament. Dpotop 12:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Independence day 

message: 14:55 - 01 June 2006 - Romania collected revenues of 32.6 bln lei (€9.23 bln) to the consolidated state budget in the first four months of 2006, accounting for 10.1% of the country's GDP, said the Romanian Ministry of Finance. 
The country's spending in the first four months of 2006 stood at 29.2 bln lei (€8.27 bln), which is 9.1% of the country's GDP. 
Tax on profit generated 3.1 bln lei (€877.9 mln) of the country's consolidated state budget revenue during the reported period, while collection of income tax generated 2.8 bln lei (€792.9 mln), value added tax (VAT) contributed 8.1 bln lei (€2.29 bln) and excise tax generated 2.9 bln lei (€821.28 mln) of the total. 
The Romanian Government had initially envisaged a budget deficit of 0.5% of GDP for 2006, which increased to 0.9% of GDP after the first budget revision in April 2006. 
Source: http://www.reporter.gr/fulltext_ENG.cfm?id=60601145531 --212.227.101.15 13:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that these are reliable sources and can be taken into account.--GDP 20:46, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Guys, the GPD/capita in Romania is over 10.000$, for the simpple fact that Romania is experincieng an economical boom, and the GPD rised enormly in th epast few years. Personally I approved GPD's figures.
I am simply using the '05 IMF data like virtually all other countries do. If you can provide the updated IMF data or sourced data from another credible source I will agree to the change but don't just randomly choose a number and substitute it in. I don't see how Romania's GDP can be above 10000 as it was lower than 8800 at the end of 2005 and it's growing at roughly 5 percent. At this rate it would be $9240 dollars at the end of 2006. For it to be above 10000 at the end of this year, it must be growing at a rate of 14% per annum which is simply impossible .Vox Populi (TSO) 22:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's because you don't take into account the strong appreciation of RON. If you see that at the end of the year it will be 1 Euro=3 RON you'll see even more bigger GDP. --GDP 07:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with Vox Populi here. 92.3 billion euro (~120 billion USD) is even less than the 191 billion USD already listed in List of countries by GDP (PPP) for 2005. Please use only official sources for statistical data. Polaron | Talk 22:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Romania: Consolidated Budget Revenues at €9.23 bln in Jan-April '06 

message: Per a request at WP:RfPP, the article has now been semi-protected to deal with vandalism. Once you believe this to no longer be necessary, drop me a note or request unprotection. Thanks. AmiDaniel (talk) 19:45, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, agreed. The previous figure for GDP for approx. $9400, which is the 2006 estimate. I think it may be better to insert that figure. But $10,000+ is clearly incorrect and serves no purpose.  Ronline | Today, solidarity and hope 03:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's Bonny as usual, coming with his bs. --Candide, or Optimism 05:19, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bonnie was going even higher by the time he was blocked. Look at one his last statements on the topic: "You can compute very easily the GDP in Purchasing Power Standards: 11551 EURO." In the past he was more harmless, just adding Romanian instead of Moldovan once in while, but now he's involved in intensive vandalism, inserting his strange figures and maps into roughly 12 articles. Vox Populi (TSO) 14:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you compute PPP GDP when nominal GDP is 4500 Euro? 93 Billion EURO/22 millions romanians? --193.109.91.134 17:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: PPP GDP is not per capita GDP, it is purchasing power parity GDP. - Jmabel | Talk 04:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Wow, he's getting more vocal. I have nothing against adding Romanian instead of Moldovan. But I see that now he's interested in a whole other array of topics, even economics. Boni, you really have too much time on your hands. Don't you have a Ph.D. to study for? Constantzeanu 18:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected 

message: The population of Iasi is estimated to be over 340,000, here are my sources:[], [], []. I would like to hear your opinions about this. Arthur 10 June 2006
:We should only use census counts or census estimates as a source. From 1992 and 2002 census counts, we find the population of the city as 344,425 (1992) and 320,888 (2002). An official 2003 midyear estimate from here indicates a population of 313,444 (2003). The growth rate between 1992 and 2002 is -0.68% per year. The decrease in population appears to have accelerated from the 2003 estimate. It is unlikely to suddenly increase to 348,000. Polaron | Talk 19:40, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you saying that the National Institute of Statistics population figures are less accurate than the figures provided by the Romanian Tourist Office? In any case, figures for all the cities in the table must come from a single reliable source for easy verifiability. Polaron | Talk 20:07, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Arthur, I would also be skeptical in giving preference to any other source other than the official census data when describing the population of a place. You have to understand that the census takers and analysts are professionals who have taken into account all the data that they have accumulated. And considering the number of people choosing to leave the country for permanent or temporary work in other parts, the numbers do not even appear that unexpected. TSO1D 22:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is true that the population of Romania may have risen, or at least dropped less, since the 2002 census (or most likely since 2004) but sadly enough we have no better data for these cities then the one in the 2002 census.Dapiks 03:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

text: How about the students? UAIC (The Univerisity Al. I. Cuza) has over 25000 students every year... and there another 4 state univerities in Iasi: (Technical (20000 or more...i think), Medicine&Pharmacy(20000 - i think... there are 6 faculties, and 8 colleges and courses are longer - 6 years), Agricultural Sciences, Arts... A  private univeristy like "Petre Andrei" (UPA) enroles 5000 students every year. From all these students let's say that about 33% are locals... but  the rest... about 50.000 people... where are they listed??
--O mores 11:50, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  We could also count the turist in constanta... during the summer, at any time there are more than 350,000 people in constanta, even if they are not the same 350,000 every week ;) Anonimu 20:18, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think tourists are ever counted in statistics when somebody talks about population. -- AdrianTM 20:24, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

text: As for this kind of arguments "There's no way that the population of Braşov or Constanţa for example drop in space of 2-3 years about 50-60 000" you ignore that many people left Romania temporarily or for ever, emigration can easily explain that drop. -- AdrianTM 20:24, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that most of the ones who left temporarily still show up in statistics. Anonimu 21:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They should, but they won't if they are not there to be counted during the census. -- AdrianTM 22:15, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Iaşi's population

message: 12 iunie 2006
Pina cel putin in 2008 salariile vor continua sa creasca, dar nu in acelasi ritm ca acum citiva ani. De asemenea, nu vor mai exista diferente la fel de mari intre regiuni.
Salariul romanilor va creste anul acesta la nivel national, in medie, cu 11,8% fata de 2005, urmind ca in 2007 saltul sa fie de numai 10,4%, se arata intr-un studiu realizat de Comisia Nationala de Prognoza. La un an dupa aderare insa ritmul de crestere va fi similar cu cel din acest an, adica de 11,1% raportat la 2005. Altfel spus, conform estimarilor, salariul mediu net la nivel national va ajunge anul acesta la 817 lei noi, urmind sa creasca la 1.002 lei noi in 2008. In anul aderarii, un roman va cistiga in medie 902 lei noi. Cele mai mari salarii se vor inregistra in continuare in Bucuresti, iar cele mai mici in regiunea de nord-est.
Diferente mai mici intre regiuni/Smaller differences between regions
Daca pina acum remuneratia romanilor depindea foarte mult si de regiunea unde lucrau, specialistii Comisiei estimeaza ca in urmatorii doi ani diferentele dintre zonele geografice in ceea ce priveste nivelul salarial se vor estompa. Aceasta in conditiile in care in toate regiunile tarii cresterea economica va fi apropiata de media nationala estimata la 6% pentru anul in curs, la 6,2% in 2007 si de 6,3% in 2008. La nivelul anului trecut decalajul dintre regiuni a fost de 33,7%, in scadere fata de 2000 cind acest procent se ridica la 42,1%. Atunci salariatii din doar doua regiuni au fost remunerati cu sume situate peste media nationala. Este vorba despre Capitala si despre regiunea de sud-vest, unde salariul mediu net a fost cu 23,4% si respectiv 0,3% mai mare decit media pe tara. In schimb, cu 10,3 procente sub media nationala s-a cistigat in nord-est, in vreme ce in centru si nord-vest salariul mediu net a fost cu 8,2% si respectiv 6,5% mai mic decit media pe intreaga tara.
Cele mai semnificative cresteri, in vest
Chiar daca diferentele dintre salarii pe regiuni nu vor mai fi la fel de vizibile, bucurestenii vor beneficia in continuare de cele mai mari salarii. In Capitala, cresterea economica prognozata este pentru anul in curs de 6,6%, urmind sa ajunga la 6,8% in 2008, ceea ce va face ca peste doi ani salariul unui angajat intr-o societate bucuresteana sa fie in medie cu peste 200 de lei noi mai mare decit media nationala. Cu toate acestea, cele mai semnificative cresteri salariale se vor inregistra in vestul tarii. Este vorba despre un avans de 12,2% in 2008 raportat la 2005. La polul opus, angajatii din regiunile de sud-est si sud-vest vor beneficia peste doi ani de un plus la salariu de numai 10 procente fata de anul trecut. In rest, in celelalte regiuni ale tarii majorarea salariului mediu net va fi de 11,1%.
*
Mai putini someri
In ceea ce priveste rata somajului, Comisia Nationala de Prognoza preconizeaza o reducere moderata la nivelul intregii tari pina in 2008. Mai precis, pentru perioada 2006-2008 se preconizeaza o reducere cu 5,4% a numarului persoanelor aflate in somaj, ajungindu-se la o rata de 5,6%. Cel mai ridicat nivel, de 7,5%, va fi consemnat in acest an in regiunea de sud-vest - 7,5%, iar cel mai scazut in regiunea Bucuresti (2,7%).
Alina Stanciu--Brasoveanul 12:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's pretty good stuff; can we add this map along with this data? Dapiks 03:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe so as long as we mention the source. --Brasoveanul 06:03, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Then we should put this in the article. It's really good infoDapiks 23:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Salariile romanilor in 2008 / English: Wages of romanians in 2008

message: To me the culture section if very poorly written. Can anyone clean it up?
*Who invented the pens? A person? Romanians? (and why the dangling link?)
*"Traditionally Romanians appreciate poetry more than Romanian prose". Really? Traditionally? WTF does that mean? And why so many generalizations anyway?
*"remained very known outside Romania" -- strange sentence.
Anyone else? --AdrianTM 11:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Culture section

message: As I have said on the Featrued Article Nominations page, I have contacted the holder of Copyright for those images from [], and am awaiting an answer as to if the images will be permitted to stay on Wikipedia. Please do not change or remove the images until a clear answer will have been received.
-Danielsavoiu 08:00, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. --Eliade 07:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright infringement

message: According to ARIS (Agentia Romana pentru Investitii Straine)  ("ARIS estimeaza, pentru anul in curs, un record al volumului investitiilor straine, de aproape 7,5-8 miliarde de euro."), ARIS estimates for the year 2006, a volume of foreign direct investments of about 7.5-8 billion Euro. --Eliade 07:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ARIS predictions

message: Please exapand my new template. Wish you good work.--Noisettes 15:06, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Please expand

message: The lead refers to Bucharest as "a major tourist attraction". I like Bucharest, myself, but what is the basis for calling it a major tourist attraction? As European national capitals go, it's certainly not in the top 10 for tourism. - Jmabel | Talk 02:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bucharest & tourism 

message: The lead section of an article is supposed to be a short digest of the most important information in an article. Are brown bears and chamois really more worthy of mention than the fact that it was both a monarchy and a Communist state within living memory, or that it is the only state in Eastern Europe with a Romance language for its national language (and that the country's name reflects that Latin heritage)? Sorry if I'm being species-ist here, but I think countries are generally more notable for their people than their bears - Jmabel | Talk 02:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia in lead 

message: Hi all,
I noticed Petre Buzdugan added a good article tag to this article. To add this tag, the article must first be nominated and then promoted by a neutral observer. I know sometimes tags get misplaced and are then readded by concerned Wikipedians, but in this case I would ask you to renominate as I am unsure whether this article meets the good article criteria.
Cedars 15:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Please nominate for good article tag

message: The two paragraphs beginning with "Despite the desperate efforts of the Securitate…" seem to me to be very opinionated, and very far from neutral. I don't necessarily disagree with some of what it says, but it seems very far from accepted Wikipedia style. I'm not jumping into this one beyond noting it, but it seems to me that the current text of these two paragraphs probably should keep this from getting GA status. - Jmabel | Talk 05:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very opinionated 

message: Reference is http://www.zf.ro/articol_93591/cnp__cresterea_economica_pe_2006_ar_putea_fi_revizuita_la_6_7_.html and also GDP increases by 6.7 % in 2006. One should correct the data accordingly.
:Why do you expect that that "one" should be somebody else and not yourself? Please feel free to edit. -- AdrianTM 13:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Economy of Romania - GDP is 95 Billion Euro for 2006

message: I think it should be mentioned that the famous story of "Dracula" is set in the Romanian province of Transylvania. For many people over the world it's the one thing they associate with the country and how many countries can claim that one of their provences is world famous?
:Only that's not the first thing that comes to mind when I think about "culture". It's also not Romanian culture, it's world "culture". -- AdrianTM 18:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't really Romanian at all - it just happened that Transylvania was used as the location of the fictional "Dracula" character (regardless of the fact that the Count Dracula of horror legend is obviously influenced by Vlad III the Impaler... it's still not Romanian in origin) The Incredible Moo 09:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Culture of Romania

message: Maybe it's time to move from history to History of Romania article, not everybody is obsessed of history, many people who want information about Romania want info about the country and current state of things not about history, if they are interested in history they'd go to History of Romania. -- AdrianTM 11:50, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Long article, very long history section

message: The article currently states that avr. wage is 1217 RONs and it further states that this translates as over 400 EUROs, however under the present currency exchange rate of 3.5252 RONs per EURO, it should be something like 345.23 EUROs. Dapiks 04:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's fixed. - Jmabel | Talk 19:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dubious Numbers for Wages

message: Please add only referenced material, please make sure the reference is an unbiased source. Also, this article is really long if you want to contribute to the history part it's better to add the info to History of Romania not to this article. -- AdrianTM 13:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV about Securiate and events after 1989