Talk:Romani people in Bulgaria

message: Is Toma Tomov a politician or an athlete? Не той е циганин кът всички нас, майка му насрана!
===Problems of exclusion and discrimination===
I have added a new section with this title. I have covered education in enough detail, I think, but it would certainly be useful to expand the section with more info on housing and unemployment, perhaps health too. 
Moreover, да им еба на циганите, майка им проста.
No-itsme 18:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, feel free to expand the article as long as you cite reliable sources like the ones you've used until now and the ones mentioned above. Personally, I don't think Bulgaria should be blamed for all those things mentioned, as the Roma themselves are themselves responsible for many of their own problems, but a section on these issues is certainly totally relevant and, what's more, absolutely necessary. Todor→Bozhinov 18:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks Todor циганин дебел са ибеш, and also thank you very much for reformatting the second and third footnotes to the same resource! I hadnt picked up on that convention yet, and have now gone back to make the same correction to an addition I made to another entry as well. No-itsme 19:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Always glad to help :) Todor→Bozhinov 19:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  

message: I have added a new section with this title. I have covered education in enough detail, I think, but it would certainly be useful to expand the section with more info on housing and unemployment, perhaps health too. 
Moreover, да им еба на циганите, майка им проста.
No-itsme 18:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, feel free to expand the article as long as you cite reliable sources like the ones you've used until now and the ones mentioned above. Personally, I don't think Bulgaria should be blamed for all those things mentioned, as the Roma themselves are themselves responsible for many of their own problems, but a section on these issues is certainly totally relevant and, what's more, absolutely necessary. Todor→Bozhinov 18:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks Todor циганин дебел са ибеш, and also thank you very much for reformatting the second and third footnotes to the same resource! I hadnt picked up on that convention yet, and have now gone back to make the same correction to an addition I made to another entry as well. No-itsme 19:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Always glad to help :) Todor→Bozhinov 19:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Problems of exclusion and discrimination

message: I've tagged this series of edits as WP:OR. Rough translations of the Bulgarian language refs are provided here.8, 9, 10, 11, 12. RashersTierney (talk) 22:31, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: At least two of them verify this position, which is in no case original research. The Roma have the highest average rate of crime involvement from any ethnic group in Bulgaria, how does this represent original research ? - ☣Tourbillon A ? 06:43, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Because what you have done is make a sweeping generalisation from certain instances that coincide with your point of view in order to advance a position as it relates to an entire ethnic group. In a peer reviewed journal or other authoritative publication such claims would be open to criticism and would be expected to be defended with empirical data. That is not the function of Wikipedia. Exceptional claims require exceptional sources, and stuffing the article with like-minded opinion doesn't come remotely close to the standard of referencing required for such a defamattory and contentious claim. If you wish to disseminate your personal opinions on the subject, there are appropriate outlets, but this Project isn't one of them.  RashersTierney (talk) 09:39, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The statements that 150 attacks against trains have been carried out by Roma, and that 60,000 of them (around 20% of their official population in Bulgaria) are engaged in criminal activities and dismantlement of infrastructure are sourced with a proper statistical overview. Would you please explain how is this a generalisation, provided that I have specifically stated that many Roma (and not all Roma) are engaged in such activities ? Furthermore no English-language sources cover the topic of Roma-related crime and I have used Bulgarian-language newspapers which are widely respected inside the country. The only Roma-related sources I can find in English are various human rights organisations, which do not provide an entirely neutral point of view given their functions. I understand that your bias is pro-Roma (which would explain why you consider any information against them to be either "contentious" or a personal opinion), but you could be a bit more objective in this issue. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 10:41, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure we're making much progress on this, and have sought outside views here. RashersTierney (talk) 19:31, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: At least two of the sources state explicit figures on crime rates, while the others more or less mention Roma crime as a general problem. The reason I have used Bulgarian-language sources is because few English-language ones can actually be found, at least regarding this subject. The articles I've used are from some of the largest-circulation daily newspapers, therefore reliability should not be a problem, and I certainly see no reason for the material to be removed. I am aware that the insufficient amount of sources in English undermines the verifiability of the given statements somewhat, but this is more of an inside problem and is covered mostly by domestic media. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 06:33, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree that the question of NPOV is key. What is being produced here is a 'narrative of ethnic crime', by selectively adopting articles from the populist press. It would be as valid to use such a device to demonstrate a pattern of tabloid hostility towards minorities in Bulgaria, but that would equally constitute Original Research. RashersTierney (talk) 10:38, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just added information on criminal occurences that are indeed a significant public issue inside the country. Could you once again explain how does this represent "hostility towards minorities" and is not a neutral point of view ? And, whether you would ignore the given sources as "populist" (whatever this means in our case) or would deem the information to be Original Research, is not at all my problem.  - ☣Tourbillon A ? 11:10, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I clearly said that the device of reference stuffing, as applies with the edits under discussion, could equally be used to create an alternative narrative, and that would also be original research. Misrepresenting what I wrote just a few lines up is a poor substitute for making a case for retention of those edits. RashersTierney (talk) 23:03, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I will remove the references that do not contain statistical information and treat isolated cases only to make sure there are no claims of original research. I would still like to know how exactly these edits represent a defamatory point of view on the Roma. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 18:06, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Original research

message: The "Overview" part is fairly racist and based on biased newspapers known for spreading the xenophobic atmosphere against Roma population in Bulgaria.
That overview is shameful. Let's react. I would like to do it myself but my English is poor. Thanks in advance to those who will change that.
Skull33 (talk) 21:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm happy to help with a radical cleanup, especially with English language assistance. RashersTierney (talk) 21:44, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

text: I've removed  a recent addition that appears to violate WP:NPOV. RashersTierney (talk) 21:54, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biased and racist overview 

message: The article The Roma in Plovdiv is very short and is the only article about Romani people in a particular city rather than a larger geographical area such as a country. As Plovdiv is in Bulgaria, I recommend that The Roma in Plovdiv be merged here. Neelix (talk) 16:18, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger with [[The Roma in Plovdiv]] 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090227083217/http://www.eumap.org/topics/minority/reports/roma_education/reports/national/bulgaria/romeduc_bulgaria.pdf to http://www.eumap.org/topics/minority/reports/roma_education/reports/national/bulgaria/romeduc_bulgaria.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified  on Romani people in Bulgaria. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120221065932/http://ec.europa.eu:80/languages/euromosaic/bg1_en.htm to http://ec.europa.eu/languages/euromosaic/bg1_en.htm
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120221065932/http://ec.europa.eu:80/languages/euromosaic/bg1_en.htm to http://ec.europa.eu/languages/euromosaic/bg1_en.htm
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070710184636/http://www.per-usa.org/reports/Roma-Skopje.pdf to http://www.per-usa.org/reports/Roma-Skopje.pdf
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110510063201/http://www.2005izbori.org/results/index.html to http://www.2005izbori.org/results/index.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm not sure what, if anything, that is really trying to say. The following clause seems like it's trying to contradict that premise...--Newbiepedian (talk · contribs · X! · logs) 00:27, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "they are emancipated social group" 

message: how is the fact of negative feelings a discrimination when the further sentences say what kind of people those are ?!  having higher crime, unemployment, […] rates, and not many of them attend school. Though most live in poverty, the Romani are represented in Bulgarian mafia and rich Romani crime bosses deal with drug trade and prostitution. […] they have a high rate of child sex workers. --77.179.58.160 (talk) 10:03, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feelings? 

message: The National Statistical Institute of Bulgaria, which conducted the 2011 census, declared that "spreading and publishing the results by ethnic group of the 2011 census is a "gross manipulation". Therefore spreading the 2011 census figure in infoboxes disrupts them. I propose it to be removed unless there is a note, stating that this figure is regarded as a gross manipulation by the census conductors. Stevan22 (talk) 17:29, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This is official census result and must be in the infobox. We can add a note, that this number is based on the people that answered the non-mandatory question for ethnic group. --StanProg (talk) 19:40, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I redirect to this edit-conflict. Would you explain why do you keep removing the note from a "gross manipulation" and continue spreading it? Nothing personal, fellow. But that's the way it is. I stop edit-warring. Cheers! I remain with the impression that you haven't read the census report of NSI, this is the report:  It says:
 Висок относителен дял на неотговорилите на въпросите за „етническа група“ и „майчин език“ и много висок дял на неотговорилите на въпроса за „вероизповедание“. Причините са различни и могат да бъдат дискутирани, но опитите да се прикрие този факт с доброволния характер на тези въпроси не е състоятелен. Тази постановка беше валидна и при преброяването през 2001 г., когато делът на неотговорилите беше различен (много по-малък). Разпространението и публикуването на данни само за отговорилите лица е груба манипулация, която поражда редица спекулации
Stevan22 (talk) 20:28, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox