Talk:Francis Xavier

message: I suppose someone removed the inquisition paragraph, and left the other reference (the Goa Inquisition) intact, which I thought dramatically improved the NPOV here. Hence I removed the neutrality-questioning notice. If anyone would like to put it back, all I ask is that you quote any sections that are not NPOV. Elektrosev 19:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This article is a hagiography not an encyclopedia article, with such gems as "He was an inspiration to many people with his miraculous work." Practically anything suggesting he was less-than-saintly is removed. Puck42 (talk) 08:16, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed neutrality

message: The first section describes a horrible inquisition. Indeed, it's something so serious that for credibility's sake I think it should be cited thoroughly!
I haven't removed it because I don't know enough about the subject and am not about to go research it now. I have, however, removed some obviously redundant and non-NPOV statements, and separated it into a paragraph of its own.
And one more thing: if whoever authored that section is going to write anything anywhere else, they should be more mindful of their mechanics (capitalization and punctuation in particular).Elektrosev 18:58, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: If you're going to write stuff like this...

message: The tex! "He also proposed the creation of the infamous Goa Inquisition, which was installed six years after his death and resulted in the forced conversions, torture and murder of thousands of Hindus, Muslims,Indian Jews and non-Catholic Indian Christians. Xavier himself was not involved in the acts." appears twice in the article, once in the introductory paragraph and once in the main text. I have removed it from the introductory paragraph. Almost verbatim redundancy is not proper encyoclopedic style.167.80.244.204 20:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Redundancy

message: * "the consciousness of acting in God's service never forsook him" (speculation)
* "mere figures may be disregarded, as they are difficult to verify" (pov)
Wmahan 16:00, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved from the article

message: There is something seriously amiss in the language in this article, which is frequently POV and far from encyclopaedic. For example: 
* He "sprang from an aristocratic Basque family of Navarre". Sprang??? Tabloid language that cannot be used in an encyclopaedia. 
(OED, spring, verb1, sense 10: Of persons (or animals): To originate by birth or generation; to issue or descend.; nothing "tabloid" about it)134.58.253.113
* A nobleman "He poured his heart out to Francis Xavier". More POV emotional language. 
* "Thus intrigued, Xavier baptized Anjiro." Presuming to read the emotional reaction of someone by calling them "intrigued" is completely POV. 
* "Then due to displeasure at the unchristian life and manners of the Portuguese, which impeded proselyting work, he went forth once again into the unknown Far East." That sentence states that (a) the life and manners of the Portuguese was "unchristian", a POV statement in the absence of a quotation or citation, (b) again implies motive that a neutral writer cannot imply with the unsources word "displeasure", (c) uses yet more unencyclopaedic hagiographic language with the words  "went forth once again into the unknown Far East".
* "although all examinations from the time of his death til now have been thoroughly documented, giving credence to the belief that the incorruptible body is evidence of a miracle." A neutral encylopaedia simply cannot say anything gives "credence" to belief of evidence of a miracle. It can say "the lack of decay is seen by religious believers as evidence of a miracle" because it doesn't say or imply that it is true or untrue, just that something leads some people to believe in something. That is as far as can be gone under NPOV. 
* "St.Francis Xavier accomplished a great deal of missionary work". An NPOV encyclopaedia cannot make an unsourced statement of that as fact. It has to say who says that, and give citations. 
* "He had high qualifications as missionary: he was animated with glowing zeal; he was endowed with great linguistic gifts, and his activity was marked by restless pushing forward. His efforts left a significant impression upon the missionary history of India, and by pointing out the way to East India to the Jesuits, his work is of fundamental significance with regard to the history of the propagation of Christianity in China and Japan" - complete POV from beginning to end. 
* "Since the Roman Catholic Church responded to his call, the effects of his efforts reach far beyond the Jesuit order; the entire systematic and aggressive incorporation of great masses of people on broad lines of policy by the Roman Catholic Church in modern times dates back to Xavier." editorialising that is incompatible with NPOV.
The article's language needs a complete overhaul, not to mention some citations in the text. I have suspicions from the language that there may even be some copyright violations, but I've no idea from where. Much of it doesn't read like a 21st century text written by wikipedians. FearÉIREANN15px\(caint) 00:55, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV language and encyclopaedic language

message: I just started Salman Rushdie's [u]Shalimar the Clown[/u] this week and he mentions what would make an interested tidbit for this article if it is true and verifiable:
"...as once other true believers in another place, in India whose name she bore, had bitten of chunks of the cadaver of St. Francis Xavier. One piece ended up in Macao, another in Rome."
Though it is in a work of fiction, it seems like a funny thing to make up. Can anyone provide any information on this?
Toko loko 21:58, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One of the arms is on display at Il Gesù. I have a picture that I could upload. --Error 23:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shalimar the Clown factoid? 

message: There is amazingly little here about his activities in Japan and other parts of Asia. I don't know how significant these things may be from the perspective of a biography of Xavier, a history of the Jesuits, but from the perspective of the history of Christianity in East Asia, this is absolutely crucial. Please expand on the dates and events of Xavier's activities in Japan and other parts of Asia. LordAmeth 21:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese and Asian missions

message: This article's 'See also' and 'External links' sections are too long. We don't need to put in every possible possibility. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of non notable links and info. Will anyone volunteer to sort these two sections out? Same for the 'Miscellaneous' section - see WP:TRIVIA. Merbabu 15:00, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much information... 

message: I have requested that this page be moved to St. Francis Xavier because the current title is missing a space. ... discospinster talk 01:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uncontroversial moves don't require a discussion section. Next time, you can use the format from the header of the "uncontroversial moves" section instead of the one for "other proposals". Dekimasuよ! 02:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: There are far too many to be listing them so haphazardly in this article.  I have removed the current content and placed it below in case anyone wants to add notable pieces of it back in.  Most of these schools have articles which are linked on Saint Xavier and St. Francis Xavier (disambiguation).
*Xavier School, San Juan City, Philippines, a private, Catholic college preparatory school for boys run by the Society of Jesus. 
*Saint Xavier University, Chicago. Saint Xavier University recently celebrated 160 years of Mercy education in Chicago.  Saint Xavier University is the oldest university in Chicago.
*St. Xavier's College, Mumbai, India. St. Xavier's College is one of India's oldest and Mumbai's most famous college.
*Xavier University (Cincinnati), founded in 1832, is one of 28 member institutions of the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities in the United States and is the fourth oldest (sixth oldest Catholic college).
*Xavier University of Louisiana is Catholic and historically Black.  St. Katharine Drexel of Philadelphia, canonized a Saint in the Roman Catholic Church in October 2000, and her Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament, a religious community dedicated to the education of African Americans and Native Americans, established Xavier as a high school in 1915. A normal school was added in 1917, the four-year college program in 1925, the College of Pharmacy in 1927 and the Graduate School in 1933. In 1970, the Sisters transferred control to a joint lay/religious Board of Trustees.  Xavier ranks first nationally in the number of African American students earning undergraduate degrees in both the biological/life sciences and the physical sciences.  It also ranks 1st in the nation in placing African American students into medical schools.
*In 1839, Theodore James Ryken founded the Xaverian Brothers, or Congregation of St. Francis Xavier (CFX).  Over 20 colleges or high schools in the United States are Xaverian Brothers Sponsored Schools (XBSS).
*St. Francis Xavier University, named after him, is a small university located in Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada and was established in 1853. Students at this university celebrate the life of St. Francis Xavier every year on December 3. It is also the date that senior students receive their university ring (X-Ring), which is marked with an "X" and is recognized around the world.
*Pontificia Universidad Javeriana, small university located in Bogota, Colombia, founded in 1623 under the name  Universidad y Academia de San Francisco Javier, interrupted in 1767, and taken back in 1930 under the current name.
*Xavier School in the Philippines is named after him as well. The school was established as a missionary school, by Jesuits expelled from China, continuing the work of St. Francis Xavier.
* St. Francis Xaviers Primary school Box Hill, Victoria, Australia
*St. Francis Xavier Secondary School is a Catholic high school in the Dufferin-Peel Catholic District School Board in Mississauga, Canada. It is the biggest Catholic school in Ontario 
*The Pontifical Xavierian University in Bogotá, Colombia.
* Xavier College Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
*St._Xavier%27s_College%2C_Mapusa%2C_Goa, a prominent undergraduate and post-graduate institution in the North Goa sub-district of Bardez.
*St Xavier's High School at Moira, Goa in India.
*Xavier Catholic College, Hervey Bay, Queensland, Australia
* St Francis Xaviers College,Liverpool
* Xavier Hall; Fairfield College Preparatory School in Fairfield, CT
*Xavier Hall; Seattle University in Seattle, WA
* St Francis Xavier College Beaconsfield, Victoria, Australia
*Colegio San Francisco Javier, Puerto Montt, Chile
*St Francis Xavier Minor Seminary, PO box 77, Wa, Ghana, West Africa
*Xavier Hall, Ateneo de Manila University, Quezon City, Philippines
*Lycée Xavier, catholic school named after him. Located in Gugi-dong, Seoul, South Korea.
*St. Francis Xavier Catholic School, Grades: Kindergarten through 8th -- 325 Betz Ave. Metairie, Louisiana, 70005  —Preceding unsigned comment added by SlackerMom (talk • contribs) 19:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Educational institutions named after this guy

message: I've moved the article back to Francis Xavier, per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Western clergy). Gentgeen 21:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  moved 

message: Is it really neccesary to give his name in so many languages? It just seems excessive and unhelpful. Especially Chinese and Japanese. I mean this is the English Wikipedia not a multilingual version. 92.6.96.197 (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 19:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like the above has been dealt with, fewer variants now given. But the following was awkward, inaccurate, and unnecessary: "It is also notable that it is common in English-speaking fiction that a character named Francis has the middle initial X (for Xavier). This is possibly attributable to the actor Francis X. Bushman or to Sir Francis Xavier himself. Notable examples are the character of Francis X. Hummel in The Rock and the X-Men character Charles Francis Xavier." In fact, many English-speakers have been named after Francis Xavier, Bushman being only one of them and not the source name. Since it's a real, not-uncommon name, it will of course be used for fictional characters too, and this no more worth mentioning than the fictional use of most other names. I've deleted the passage quoted and altered the preceding sentence to read "In English speaking countries, "Xavier" is one of the few names starting with X, and until recently was likely to follow "Francis"; in the last decade, however, "Xavier" by itself has become more popular than "Francis," and is now one of the 100 most common male baby names in the US." (And I've cited the Social Security baby name database.) 66.241.73.146 (talk) 17:56, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: This article is VERY light on aspects of his early life, including his education in Paris and how he came to meet Ignatius. This section should be expanded. Proxy User (talk) 01:35, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Early Life

message: Could Spaniards please leave their nationalistic claims out of this article? Yes, Navarre is part of Spain and has been since the dynastic origin of Spain in 1479. Claiming that FX is Navarrese and not Spanish is misleading (how many people do actually know that Navarre is part of Spain?). Since Francis Xavier was born in 1505 he is a Spaniard. In their Wiki-article, Gutemberg is referred to as “German goldsmith and printer” when Germany did not exist, and Aristotle is a “Greek Philosopher” when Greece did not exist as such.  Should Picasso be listed as “Andalusian Painter” or Edison as “Ohaian inventor”? Let’s be serious. --Karljoos (talk) 21:42, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I think that calling Francis Navarrese is the less nationalistic thing one could assert. Navarre was not part of Spain until 1512, some years after he was born. It was the state where he was born, whether you, he, or me like it or not. And even if we argue about calling him "Navarrese" or "Spanish", saying that the place of birth is "Javier, Navarre, Spain" is definitely wrong; it wasn't part of Spain at the time. Besides, if you are concerned about nationalistic views, if you call him Spanish some others could perfectly call him Basque; then, there will be even less consensus. I think it's much better to leave him as Navarrese. - Keta (talk) 21:56, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your post. I lived and worked in Spain in the early 90s and I know how strongly some Spaniards feel about these things. I must tell you, though, that as a foreigner I can only say that they seem pretty sterile, and sometimes ridiculous (i.e. was Gaudi a Catalan and not a Spaniard?). However, and citing my previous post, since Gutemberg was born in what now is Germany, he is a German (even though Germany did not exist) and so happens to Baldassare Castiglione (he was from Matua - not officially part of Italy until 1866) and Benjamin Franklin (the States did not exist until 1776). Please do not change it back until a consensus has been reached. Cheers. --Karljoos (talk) 23:39, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't worry, I won't change anything. We'll have to wait until people jump in here to continue the discussion :) - Keta (talk) 21:34, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Quite frankly, I think Karljoos is right. Francis Xavier should be listed as a Spaniard, because he was born in a city that is part now of Spain and historical figures that were born in countries that do not exist anymore are listed as citizens of the countries where their place of birth is now, and Karljoos has given good examples. I say let's go for Spanish/Spaniard and mention that he was born in the Kingdom of Navarre, which is now part of Spain. --Nandonaranja (talk) 20:40, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Fair enough. What I'm changing, though, is the place of birth in the table. You can see that the place of birth is given in all articles as the administrative region, or political division, at the time. - Keta (talk) 17:38, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nasco-navarrese? What's that? Okay he was born in a kingdom that does not exist anymore, but he spanish. I think the commentaries above are very eloquent about this. It should be "Spanish.... born in the kingdom of...." --81.35.14.69 (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Sorry, I may be joining late. I think it could be put as "in present-day Spain", otherwise it would be like saying Trajan or Viriathus were born in Spain, which is not accurate, but some seem so interested in applying Spanish to everything, with some political editors of the Wikipedia dedicated almost just to that, claiming POV (suffered it myself). Adding he was Basque somewhere is just adding information for the reader, as ethnically he was so, like everyone in the area, except for those of the Romanzado (Leire...).Iñaki LL (talk) 12:37, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Check what Santiago Leoné Puncel says about this. All you have to know is resumed and compilated here . --Zorion (talk) 16:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Zorion, thank you for your post. I still agree with Karljoos. I think it would be misleading to say that Francis Xavier was Navarrese and not Spanish and the examples he gabe are perfectly valid. Would "Spanish Navarrese" make everyone happy? --Nandonaranja (talk) 19:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

text:  Why do you thank me Nandonaranja if you do not take into account my post? It took me more than an hour to go through all this amazing work done by Santiago Leoné Puncel (unfortunately, it is in Spanish language). Puncel tried to answer on what we are debating right now and let us know who was FX (Was he Basque, Navarrese, Spaniard or French?). According to me, FX was Navarrese of Basque origin but with historical circumstances, he suddenly became a citizen of Spain. Spanish Wikipedia says that FX is only Navarrese to split the difference; will we write in four centuries from now that the Dalai Lama was Chinese? … If we follow your logical way of thinking, the answer is yes. Anyways, I have learnt ten times more with Puncel than with you guys but it is also because of you. Thank you.  --Zorion (talk) 00:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Navarrese vs Spanish

message: "For forty five years the Jesuits were the only missionaries in Asia, but the Franciscans also began proselytizing in Asia as well. "
There is no citation for this at all. Delete it...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.158.45.149 (talk) 01:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the word proselytizing

message: * FX is a Spaniard of Basque origin OR
* FX is a Navarrese of Basque origin NOT
* FX is NOT a Spanish missionary of Navarrese origin </br>
It's simply impossible to be of Navarrese origin because any cultural anthropology books (ethnology) has defined Navarrese as an ethnic group, demonstrating that Karljoos has no knowledge of what he is writing. Nowadays, Navaresse are split into two ethnic groups, the Basque people and the Spaniards. --Zorion (talk) 22:50, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And you do, right? I don't care what you Spaniards think about this, but for the rest of the world, FX is a SPANIARD whether you like it or not. --Karljoos (talk) 00:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Me neither Karljoos, as Canadian ;), I do not care and I do not revert anyone. In fact, you revert everybody else's edits (so you do care) and clearly your last answer demonstrates how incompetent you are in this matter and how you want to rule anyways this introduction sentence, without any references added. That's fine with me, like I said WP is everything but reference. Bye now Mister World Representator (...for the rest of the world). --Zorion (talk) 01:36, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Navarrese is not an origin

message: Prior to this post just took place by the anon IP. This post just in case we need a reset point for April 1st. --Morenooso (talk) 07:48, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Last good edit

message: i just visited the basilica sometime back and wanted to know more about the preservation on his body but this article has nothing on it. i think its one of the main reasons behind why lakhs of people come there and wanted to know whether its an actual miracle or a hoax. havent been able to find any material on it online so if anyone does know anythin about it which is true and relevant can u please add it to the pre existing article 117.192.135.28 (talk) 09:28, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  preservation of the body of st francis xavier 

message: There have been a flury of edits to the controversy sub-section lately, since the layout was modified. I would like to present a few sources, information from which could be incorporated in the text.
* Xavier was aware of the brutality of the Inquisition which was established at his behest in Goa: Teotonio R de Souza, Head of the department of history, Universidade Lusofona de Humanidades e Tecnologias, Lisbon.
* The Holy Inquisition was dispatched to Goa on Xavier's encouragement. For Hindus temple worship was banned, shrines destroyed and brahmins banished: David Abram in Goa 
Yogesh Khandke (talk) 09:12, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversy

message: I removed the following section from the article.  It seems to be little more than trivia and, even its reference only mentions it in passing as little more than an act of ironical humour.  Here is what I removed:
:"A most sombre act of homage that has been paid to Xavier is that he has been made the Patron Saint of a Public School House. In the 1970s Jeff Abbott, Housemaster of West Bank, Uppingham School, Rutland, had one of the school chaplains perform a service whereby Xavier was made Patron Saint of West Bank house. Abbott, a firm advocate of corporal punishment, chose Xavier on account of the fact that Xavier had introduced the scourge to Japan. Wikipeterproject (talk) 11:35, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patron Saint of West Bank, Uppingham 

message: Navarre pertenecia to Spain was not independent..
Fernando the Catholic like monarch of Navarre with his marriage with Isabel I her incorporates to Spain in 1492.
The end of the independence of the kingdom produjó when Fernando Catholic realized the military conquest in the summer of 1512.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.120.149.231 (talk) 11:18, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the offending phrase. carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 19:41, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:   independent Kingdom of Navarre???? 

message: We have a serious discrepancy about his name.  Firstly, the lede para says: 
* Francis Xavier, born Francisco de Jasso y Azpilicueta ...
So far, so good.  It semes to mean his name at birth was Francisco de Jasso y Azpilicueta and later became Francis Xavier.
We move on.  Early life says:
* He was born ... the youngest son of Juan de Jaso ...and Doña Maria de Azpilcueta y Aznárez ... 
Now we have a problem.  Was his father's name Jasso or Jaso?  And was his mother’s name Az-pili-cueta or Az-pil-cueta?
But it gets worse:
* Following the Basque surname custom of the time, he was named after his toponym; his name is written Francisco de Xavier.
That suggests he was never called Francisco de Jasso/Jaso y Azpilicueta/Azpilcueta, but was known as Francisco de Xavier from birth, regardless of his parents' names.  So, what's it to be?  --  Jack of Oz [your turn] 10:25, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This might shed some light. --SMasters (talk) 13:34, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Name discrepancy

message: I have removed the entire "See also" section because I do not believe it meets the requirements of WP guidelines at WP:ALSO.  In case you it states, among other things that a "reasonable number of relevant links that would be in the body of a hypothetical perfect article are suitable to add to the "See also" appendix of a less developed one."  In this case, the article is rather well-developed and a long list of churches, schools and other institutions named after Xavier is not what the "See also" section is for.  If there is a need for a list of things named after Xavier, then one could create an article or a category.
If individual links are to be reinstated, then it would be good to follow the guideline, which states that editors "should provide a brief annotation when a link's relevance is not immediately apparent, when the meaning of the term may not be generally known, or when the term is ambiguous."
Finally, there were several articles already linked in the main body of the article, rendering these superfluous in the "See also" section.
Note that the guideline specifically says that "a good article might not require a "See also" section at all." Wikipeterproject (talk) 02:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I reviewed my revert and reinstated a few links that probably do meet the guidelines. Wikipeterproject (talk) 02:17, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: good--thanks. Rjensen (talk) 02:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: A pleasure ! :) Wikipeterproject (talk) 02:46, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "See also" section 

message: I am being forced to freeze this article. I will strive to keep this neutral and objective. Please don't make this a forum or rant page but keep it as an encyclopedia. I apologize in anticipation to the editors.--Jondel (talk) 11:59, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not my game to edit here, but maybe you can fix it yourself that if Francis is in the middle,  Anjirō is on the left in the 3 statue image, it does not need to say that Bernardo is on the right. I know this is the internet generation, but let us pretend to give them some credit for thinking once in a while at least... History2007 (talk) 21:31, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Er could you  do it? It should be write enabled for users now.--Jondel (talk) 04:56, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Freeze

message: Why cant i edit the article even after with an account?
HeritageCastilian (talk) 10:19, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why

message: Hello,
"Formerly Bulls were dated according to the year of the Incarnation, which begins on 25 March. This medieval style of dating remained peculiar to papal Bulls, and in time gave rise to much confusion. Pius X ordered these documents to be dated in future according to common custom, by the year which begins on 1 January." (article “Roman Curia” of The Catholic Encyclopedia).
The date of canonization of St. Francis Xavier and of some other saints(!) (see below) is March 12, 1622 not A.D. but of the Incarnation of The Lord (“Bullarium Romanum”; TOMO XII, 1867; Gregorius XV: parte IV, pagine 649-701; bolla LIII). 
By January 1, 1622 of the Incarnation of The Lord being March 25, 1622 A.D. and December 31, 1622 of the Incarnation of The Lord being March 24, 1623 A.D. of necessity follows that March 12, 1622 of the Incarnation of The Lord is June 3, 1622 A.D., the true date of canonization of St. Francis Xavier, St. Ignatius Loyola, St. Philip Neri, St. Theresa of Avila and St. Isidore the Farmer and that canonization date for all of them should be corrected.
Because of this confusion St. Francis Xavier might indeed have revealed the Novena of grace to be made from March 4 to March 12 inclusive in spite of his canonization on June 3, 1622 A.D.
I also ask for removal of footnote no. 23 (Jesuit prayer-book) which I made since April 12, 1622 is false date of the canonization in every case (either A.D. or year of the Incarnation of The Lord).
--95.178.159.163 (talk) 20:46, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly suspect you've taken it too far. True, in some contexts back then, the year did begin on 25 March.  But all that means is that 24 March 1526 (say) was New Years Eve, and was immediately followed by New Years Day 25 March 1527.  The number of the year changed, but the dates themselves just continued in their usual sequence.  --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 07:52, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  "The French chronologists remark, that those who commenced the year from the Annunciation, March 25, were nine months and seven days in advance of others, whose year began on the 1st of January." (Robert Thomas Hampson, "Medii Aevi Kalendarium", Vol. II, p.17). So, Jack of Oz, your strong suspicion is wrong and your imaginative theory is a falsity.
According to the French chronologists, the correction is also to be made for the year of the canonization of St. Francis Xavier and the other four saints and not only for the day and the month of it: 1621 AD, not 1622 AD since dates in the year of The Incarnation are 9 months and 7 days ahead of the corresponding AD dates.
Interestingly, in the bull of the canonization itself (see on the link above) there is this footnote regarding 1622th year of the Incarnation: "1 Erronee edit. Main. habet 1621 (R.T.).".
So, Jack of Oz and everyone else, the date of canonization of St. Francis Xavier, St. Ignatius Loyola, St. Philip Neri, St. Theresa of Avila and St. Isidore the Farmer is June 3, 1621 AD, NOT March 12, 1622 AD.
And dates of all canonizations, beatifications etc. in Wikipedia originally given by the year of the Incarnation and copied to Wikipedia with the addition of AD instead of the year of the Incarnation have to be corrected.
--5.43.175.20 (talk) 00:52, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change of false canonization date of St. Francis Xavier etc.(!) needed  

message: This section onwards needs to be cleaned, if anyone has any idea, besides cutting short those subsections to a few lines, please reply?
Otherwise I think it seems to be the only way and I will go ahead with it. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:54, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article may contain an excessive amount of intricate detail that may only interest a specific audience. 

message: It is an indisputable fact that St Francis was not tolerant to other religions and that such relevant fact should be in Wikipedia. I’ve added myself views from Jesuits that openly condemn St Francis views on this subject and I’ve provided references to the article that document Saint Francis intolerance. However there are several paragraphs related with the Goa inquisition that are better placed in the article on Goa Inquisition.  This is an article on S. Francis not the Goa Inquisition and therefore the historical context should be reduced to a minimum.  Especially if we consider that the Goa inquisition was established almost 20 years after S. Francis death.
I am not saying the content should be removed from Wikipedia, but I am saying that this is not the place for such content. JPratas (talk) 15:00, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goa Inquisition  

message: Similar issues have been discussed here before. I just read this article for the first time (while working on a writing project on Jesuits in India) and it has some very obviously biased passages. I'm putting back the tag disputing its neutrality, which has apparently been removed once before. The assumption seems to be that Francis Xavier's work was objectively for the greater good, and that the people who hindered his work (including both natives and Portuguese) were inferior to him, and unable to see what's best for them. A lot of the language betrays an underlying reverence without making factually incorrect claims ("many were the hardships which Xavied had to encounter"). This text needs a serious rewrite--it sounds like a Sunday school textbook. Some examples:
1) "The Christian population had churches, clergy, and a bishop, but many of the Portuguese were ruled by ambition, avarice, revenge, and debauchery."
2) "To meet this challenging situation Xavier decided that he must begin by instructing the Portuguese themselves in the principles of faith ..."
3) "Many were the difficulties and hardships which Xavier had to encounter at this time, sometimes because the Portuguese soldiers, far from seconding his work, hampered it by their bad example and vicious habits." 
4) "Despite Francis' different religion, he felt that they were good people, much like Europeans, and could be converted." (The writer claims to know how Francis felt, half a millennium after the fact.)
5) And finally, the fluffy section "Legacy" should be deleted. Obviously, as a pioneering missionary, his legacy is extremely controversial, which really doesn't come across here.
143.89.88.45 (talk) 09:47, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree. The article was probably written by people who worship Saint Francis and based themselves on books also written by people who also worship him. In addition, naturally,  significant views that have been published by reliable sources on Saint Francis are mainly favourable views and wikipedia should reflect that. Having said that I tend to agree that the article could benefit from a more neutral and factual language. I am not a native english speaker therefore I will not try it myself. Why don't you step forward and revise it? I have a lot of reliable sources in my library and am willing to collaborate JPratas (talk) 15:08, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, I can edit the text to get rid of the worst Sunday-school sentences, but the article needs the attention of an expert on the topic. The style of writing betrays that it's written by folks who, as you say, worship Francis Xavier as a saint, and that it's based on biased sources. So just on the basis of that, I'd dispute its neutrality even after my own edits, until someone more knowledgeable has taken a look at this and made sure there are no serious omissions. I also propose deleting the entire "Legacy" section.143.89.88.45 (talk) 15:43, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

text: Sorry, I changed my mind. The offending passages are beyond repair. I can't take an obviously biased statement, such as "His mornings were usually spent in tending and comforting the distressed in hospital and prison", and rewrite it in a more neutral tone without perpetuating the same bias. I have no idea how much time he spent in hospitals and prisons, whether he did it in the mornings, and, most importantly, what his agenda was. Again, a historian needs to look at this (I'm not one), and the neutrality-in-dispute tag should remain until then. 143.89.88.45 (talk) 15:56, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: At least you could edit the text to get rid of the most obvious worst Sunday-school sentences and still keep the neutrality-in-dispute tag. It would be an improvement. JPratas (talk) 17:46, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it's that simple. What would I do with the sentence about, say, Xavier comforting the sick every morning? Just delete it? I have no idea how that statement relates to what we do know about the person. I also don't think it's an improvement to make a clearly biased text merely sound more palatable. Right now, the text is written in such a way that most educated people will easily perceive that it's not even trying to be objective. I'd rather see the text remain like that until it receives a comprehensive facelift. Propaganda like this is often riddled with factual mistakes, too (and I can't be the judge of that on this topic), and omissions. It's better that the text is identifiable as what it is, rather than us trying to make it seem more objective--since we don't have the expertise to actually improve the content.143.89.88.45 (talk) 02:50, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not a neutral point of view 

message: I thought there was enough evidence that St. Francis Xavier should be considered a Portuguese saint, in the same way St. John of God is also considered a Spanish saint, despite being born in Portugal. St. Francis Xavier when he came to Portugal he became a subject of the king of Portugal, John III, and he always used Portuguese as the missionary language in the Far East. He appears in "O Grande Livro dos Portugueses" (Lisboa, Círculo de Leitores, 1991). I included St. Francis Xavier in two portuguese categories, but after some thought I removed him. I wasn't able to find enough NPOV sources for these categories. Mistico (talk) 17:30, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Xavier wasn't a subject of Portugal, he traveled to Portugal and other places as a member of the Society of Jesus. Similarly, Anthony of Padua remained a Portuguese subject even throughout his years in the Italian peninsula. 49.15.231.21 (talk) 19:10, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Portuguese saint

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Francis Xavier. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090831074329/http://www.bomjesus.in:80/ to http://www.bomjesus.in
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Francis Xavier. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110617051526/http://www.chiesadelgesu.org/html/d_cappella_san_francesco_saverio_it.html to http://www.chiesadelgesu.org/html/d_cappella_san_francesco_saverio_it.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I was looking at this tumblr page:
*
There were a number of images of Francis and the Crab.
*:File:The Miracle of Saint Francis Xavier and the Crab.jpg - painting by Francesco Solimena
*A crop of a painting from the Church of the Gesù
*A religious medal
*
Anyone else know where the images come from? --evrik (talk) 17:09, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Crab and crucifix

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Franciszek Ksawery d' Abancourt de Franqueville. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  ミラP 03:56, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Franciszek Ksawery d' Abancourt de Franqueville" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: The first paragraph does not comply with NPOV:
* It states opinions as facts. For example, it cites James Patrick Broderick's opinion: "James Patrick Broderick, though writing an admiring biography, condemns as Xavier's "woefully inadequate views about Indian religion and civilization"." Broderick's admiration of Xavier and his condemnation of Xavier's views are both opinions and both equally irrelevant.
* It slants the discussion by citing irrelevant material in the first sentence. Xavier may have had opinions on God's glory or on the abilities of humankind which we disagree with or find ridiculous, but those provide no factual info at all about his possible role in the inquisition. 
Now, if we were historians, we could try to analyze his beliefs, his actions, his letters, etc in order to try to build a case about his attitude towards the inquisition and what actions he took on the basis of these attitudes. But that would constitute original research and would violate Wikipedia:No original research.
Micheln (talk) 18:27, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues with "Role in Goa inquisition" section 

message: 66.171.81.13 (talk) 15:44, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not what the source says. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:04, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2021 

message: Francis Xavier had some pretty questionable views on Hinduism  , Hindu gods and Hindu Practices.
He is also mentioned to have committed some questionable actionsWhen all are baptized I order all the temples of their false gods to be destroyed and all the idols to be broken in pieces.https://archive.org/details/LifeLettersOfStFrancisXavierV1/page/n311/mode/2up
Whenever I hear of any act of idolatrous worship, I go to the place with a large band of these children, who very soon load the devil with a greater amount of insult and abuse than he has lately received of honor and worship from their parents, relations, and acquaintances. The children run at the idols, upset them, dash them down, break them to pieces, spit on them, trample on them, kick them about, and in short heap on them every possible outrage.https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/1543xavier1.asp
They[brahmins] are liars and cheats to the very backbone. Their whole study is, how to deceive most cunningly the simplicity and ignorance of the people.
These Brahmins have barely a tincture of literature, but they make up for their poverty in learning by cunning and malice. 
This is not an edit request so Please don't quell this with that "please suggest a x to y change" message. I am seeking suggestions to as how can these facts be introduced in the page considering i don't think anything like this is mentioned in the article (correct me if I am wrong).  Extorc (talk)
:They're not questionable views, they were standard for Europeans in India during his era (read the works of Diogo Couto, Alessandro Valignano, Luís Fróis, etc.). Also, if ALL the native Hindu villagers were now baptized Christians then they no longer had any use for the idols and temples. His views on the local Brahmins might also be seriously valid, they're not known for their literary output even during pre-Portuguese times. The Brahmins also exploited weaker sections of society, leading to the creation of groups like the Kalawantin aka Gomantak Maratha Samaj.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.107.68.73 (talk) 15:37, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Ignoring the rest of your blatantly biased views, "not known for their literary output"? Every major Sanskrit text was virtually written by a Brahmin or those educated by them. Seriously valid my foot. 122.174.67.31 (talk) 12:31, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: "Every major Sanskrit text was virtually written by a Brahmin or those educated by them." That wasn't the situation for Brahmin communities in the areas Xavier visited (Nambudiris, Saraswats, etc.), they hadn't produces anything new that was seriously comparable to literature in contemporary European society. They were more interested in enforcing the caste structure, e.g. such was the state of Hindu society in Kerala: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_Kerala#Ritual_pollution 42.107.76.9 (talk) 16:54, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Views on Indian Communities 

message: It doesn’t tell how he died? 118.3.225.176 (talk) 05:38, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: His death is mentioned in the last sentence of the article section titled "Missionary work": "He died from a fever at Shangchuan, Taishan, China, on 3 December 1552, while he was waiting for a boat that would take him to mainland China."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2402:8100:319F:6A0A:B1AE:152F:5197:6349 (talk) 02:24, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Huh