Talk:Long and short scales/Archive 2

message: 2:55, 2 January 2006 Shd (→Comparison - there is no such number as billiard)
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwords/billion:
 In the 'British' system, it would also possible to use 'billiard' for 'thousand billion', 
 'trilliard' for 'thousand trillion', etc., but this has not so far caught on.
So I put it back in. -- 62.214.239.104 19:48, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Billiard 

message: The current article puts Puerto Rico in the list of short scale countries, but then in the text says that the term billón means 10^12 there. That would seem to be long scale usage, as in the rest of Latin America. I am familiar with long scale usage in Spanish, but I could imagine that short scale usage could be common in coloquial usage due to the influence of American English there. But I would like confirmation of this fact before making any change to the article. I can imagine that the long scale might be official in Puerto Rico but the short scale might be quite commmon in coloquial usage. Anyone able to confirm this? --imacdonald 23:04, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Puerto Rican Usage 

message: User:Paul Martin has made several bold changes to the article, with some good ideas. However, some of the grammar needs correcting; some of the facts may be challenged, e.g. status of Puerto Rico vs U.S.; some of the comments are NPOV, e.g. erudite communities, and it would have been useful to discuss these proposed changes first. I've reverted these edits pending further discussion here. Thanks, Ian Cairns 12:29, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jan 18

message: === Plain text (no info loss on copying) ===
* Long scale: 10↑(n×6) = n + -illion
* Short scale: 10↑((n+1)×3) = n + -illion
=== Mathematical notation ===
* Long scale: 10^{6n}\, = n + -illion
* Short scale: 10^{3(n+1)}\, = n + -illion
--88.152.105.240 18:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Math rules for the two scales 

message: * Long scale: 10^{6n}\, = n + -illion
* Short scale: 10^{3(n+1)}\, = n + -illion
--88.152.105.240 18:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mathematical notation 

message: Common numbers use base 10, but larger numbers could use a larger base for improved readability. That base is suitable a power of 10, becoming a superbase of 10. Long scale use superbase million, Short scale use superbase thousand. The suffix -illion is clearly connected to a million = 10^{6}, so one can say that long scale "owns" this suffix (since 1475). Short scale with base 10^{3} have to use their own suffix, like -sand derived from thousand. One could artificially construct new names of numbers for short scale using this suffix. 
Value      	Base Thousand Notation                                 	Base Thousand	B. T.logic  	Gillion System(base thousand)	Short Scale(base thousandwith offset)	S. S.logic    	Long Scale(base million)	L. S.logic         	Nicolas ChuquetLong Scale Notation(base million notation)
100 = 	1                                                      	one          	(10^{3})^{0}	one                          	one                                  	(10^{3})^{1-1}	one                     	(10^{6})^{0}       	1
103 = 	1 000                                             	thousand     	(10^{3})^{1}	thousand                     	thousand                             	(10^{3})^{1+0}	thousand                	10^{3}*(10^{6})^{0}	1000
106 = 	1 000 000                                    	bisand       	(10^{3})^{2}	million                      	million                              	(10^{3})^{1+1}	million                 	(10^{6})^{1}       	1' 000000
109 = 	1 000 000 000                           	trisand      	(10^{3})^{3}	gillion                      	billion                              	(10^{3})^{1+2}	thousand million        	10^{3}*(10^{6})^{1}	1000' 000000
1012 =	1 000 000 000 000                  	quadsand     	(10^{3})^{4}	tetrillion                   	trillion                             	(10^{3})^{1+3}	billion                 	(10^{6})^{2}       	1' 000000' 000000
1015 =	1 000 000 000 000 000         	quintsand    	(10^{3})^{5}	pentillion                   	quadrillion                          	(10^{3})^{1+4}	thousand billion        	10^{3}*(10^{6})^{2}	1000' 000000' 000000
1018 =	1 000 000 000 000 000 000	sextsand     	(10^{3})^{6}	hexillion                    	quintillion                          	(10^{3})^{1+5}	trillion                	(10^{6})^{3}       	1' 000000' 000000' 000000
Long scale makes good sense when used with long scale notation. At trillion three groups of zeroes are visible.
Base thousand makes good sense when used with base thousand notation. At "sextsand" six groups of zeroes are visible.
 Gillion System makes good sense when used with base thousand notation. At hexillion six groups of zeroes are visible.
The choice between short scale or long scale is the choice of wanting to group digits in groups of three or in groups of six.
One drawback of long scale is that people mix up million with milliard. Maybe better to use the term thousand millions instead of milliard. The purpose of long scale was not to make groups of three digits so terms milliard, billiard,... creates confusion.   User:Najro 19:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: More of grouping of digits: Names of numbers in English#Cardinal numbers? Positional notation?  Myllion System? Knuth -yllion? --Najro 14:47, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Superbase of large numbers 

message: I have a problem with/suggestion about the list of Long scale countries near the bottom of the public page for Long_and_short_scales.  That is supposed to be a list of countries, but instead it contains a list of languages.  I suggest the following:
* Change this:
Long scale countries (heading)
Most other countries. Examples:  French, Danish and Norwegian milliard... (paragraph text)
* Into this:
Long scale countries (heading)
Most other countries.(paragraph text)
Examples in different languages (heading)
French, Danish and Norwegian milliard... (paragraph text)
This would enable one to add individual country names to the "long scale" list without having to refer to the usage of a certain language, and it would enable one to add language usage examples even if those languages are commonly used in countries that use the short scale.
Your comments?
I apologise for not formatting my text correctly... I'm rather new to the wikipedia (feel free to format my post for me).
-- leuce 13:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion: Split long scale section in two

message: : The following has just been deleted from Long and short scales/Reference: Guitel (extracts) because it did not qualify as an article in its own right. It was contributed: 2006-01-19 09:16:51 Lucky Luke. -- RHaworth 19:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guitel 

message: Paul
I removed the following section from the article becuaee it is a POV rant. Please justify why you think this is encyclop(a)edic in value. Are there no english links that you could have used instead? 
Thanks, Ian Cairns 08:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Arrogant edit