Talk:Andy Stern

message: Not a subject I plan to work on, but if someone decides to work seriously on this article, Robert Fitch's "Stern's Dead Souls", chapter 13 of Solidarity For Sale: How Corruption Destroyed the Labor Movement is a must-read. He is very critical of Stern, but grudgingly acknowledges his large achievement in removing corrupt labor bosses at SEIU; indeed, even the critical Fitch sees this as the largest such achievement in the history of American labor unionism. Fitch's general critique is that Stern is building up sheer organizational size and power at the expense of union democracy, and is confining himself to very modest goals for benefits to his membership in a calculated strategy modeled on the techniques by which Alfred P. Sloan brought General Motors to market dominance. A fascinating read. - Jmabel | Talk 20:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Stern's Dead Souls" 

message: This article has been edited anonymously by Berman and Company, who are lobbyists for amongst others the American Beverage Institute, the Center for Consumer Freedom, the Center for Union Facts and the Employment Policies Institute.
IP address of 66.208.14.242 traces to Berman and Company, see the Whois report. I Spy With My Big Eye (talk) 10:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warning: Lobbyists [[Berman and Company]] at work  

message: Calling Perez Stern an anonymous special interest attack site is not by any stretch NPOV. However, 173.66.107.62, I do think its reasonable to make the point that Perez Stern is focused on a single issue: the NUHW/SEIU fight, so I have edited it to include that. -Nick  —Preceding unsigned comment added by NickGorton (talk • contribs) 18:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perez Stern 

message: Better than just describing him as a fired former employee, I think it would be a better description if we stated whose opinion it was and what his position was in the organization and that he was removed during the SEIU trusteeship to give readers a better idea of the point of view of the speaker. NickGorton (talk) 16:37, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul Kumar 

message: This was obviously a wholesale attempt to scrub all negative information from this article done through multiple quickly consecutive edits. I did keep the twitter link and got rid of the gawker link which are reasonable. However the removals and the listed reasons are as a whole quite unreasonable. For example: "Other public figures don't have 'controversy' sections. See Obama, Bush." Bush doesn't have a controversy section because the controversies surrounding him have been sliced off into separate entries such as Movement to impeach George W. Bush and Public image of George W. Bush. When comparing Stern to other public figures on the same par such as Rod Blagojevich you will see they do have a controversy section. In the case of Stern, he's not as big a figure as Bush, so its reasonable to, like Blagojevich keep it in the same article. As another example: "Clear bias in writing... 'SEIU takeover?'" Its not a bias given that SEIU did take over UHW-W by placing it in trusteeship. Another example "removed bias" in removing the phrase "However threats of trusteeship were known for far longer" when discussing the open letter than Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky et al had written to Stern asking him not to place UHW-W in trusteeship that predated the actual trusteeship by many months. I suspect this series of edits was done by someone close to Stern or perhaps a PR person from SEIU given the editor doesn't have a talk page and his only edits have been to scrub Stern's page of all things negative as well as other related pages (ex: Sal Rosselli). NickGorton (talk) 19:12, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is correct that controversy and criticism sections are disfavored as a way of organizing material.  If the event is biographically important to a telling of Andy Stern's life and career, then it is important; if not it is not.  The fact that it happens to be a "controversy" is not a good way of organizing a bio, nor is it a good idea within a given section of concentrating on the controversial aspect of it.  The word "however" is a red flag indicating possible POV, tone, and WP:SYNTH problem.  The word "however" generally indicates that the statement to follow contradicts, clarifies, or modifies the statement immediately preceding.  That should not be done without a reliable source that mentions both facts, and gives that relationship between the two.  Even in that case the word is wrong in tone because it is more of an essay-like discourse or analysis rather than a presentation of information.  Overall, this article is grossly out of proportion, presenting a criticism section that overwhelmes the article.  Some of the material is poorly sourced (sourced to partisan and primary sources), contains editorial commentary about what is in the sources, and is written in an argumentative style.  That hints at WP:BLP problems.   It needs a thorough rewrite, that would probably see some of the material removed.  I haven't done that myself because it's a big task, and there is plenty of good information there that could simply use some organization.  The concern over a new WP:SPA account is reasonable, but we do WP:AGF here, and a talk page isn't always the best place to figure out who is a legitimate editor and who is not.  Why not ask the editor directly if they have a personal connection to the issue?  Wikidemon (talk) 19:50, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  JohnSpot edits 

message: This article does not utilize a neutral point of view. For example, the author states that Stern is "empowering workers through the Employee Free Choice Act." This language shows a favorable bias toward the legislation which is actually a polarizing topic considering for example the fact that this legislation would remove employees' right to a secret ballot. Another example is when the author states that Stern's book "offers a fresh prescription for the vital political and economic reforms America needs to get back on track," essentially endorsing the book while at the same time implying that America is "off track." Not a neutral article, not professional, and reminds me more of a book sleeve synopsis than a Wikipedia article.
Acirvin (talk) 00:10, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "NPOV" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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