Talk:Keyboard concerto

message: Responding to 3O request: I have left this discussion listed at 3O in the hope of attracting an expert in the subject. In the meantime, I will try to help you in a more general way. You need to find a balance between the article's size and scope. Short articles should not be split unless there is a compelling reason to do so; for example, because the content is far too general in its scope and/or not sufficiently interrelated. If the differing types of key concerto are really sufficiently dissimilar to warrant separate articles, then you could easily find enough material to fill them. As it is, they would be little more than stubs.
I think that you both need to put aside your disagreement for now and work to improve this single article to its maximum potential. Then see if you have enough distinct material to warrant separate articles. If you can avoid creating content forks, it might be viable, but I think you need to get to that point first. Adrian M. H. 20:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Third opinion

message: As has been noted above, we should add information about organ concerti. Anybody knowledgeable in that area? — Chris53516 (Talk) 14:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organ concerti 

message: The article says: "Concerti for the harpsichord were written throughout the Baroque era"
However, as even the article itself states, J.S Bach's 5th Brandenburg concerto was probably the first concerto to feature harpsichord as a solo instrument. It is also believed that it was written in 1719. Therefore, if we accept the general notion that the baroque era started in 1600 and ended in 1750, we can see that harpsichord conerti only began to be written near the end of the baroque period. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.220.106 (talk • contribs) 
:If you have a good reference, then change the article and cite the source. — Chris53516 (Talk) 21:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, if you have a good reference or can't find one, go ahead and change it. I'm not sure who originally wrote that, so you may want to look at the history of the page and ask them directly. — Chris53516 (Talk) 20:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harpsichord Concerti Throughout the Baroque 

message: My piano playing days were long ago, and I spent few days (not years) on either harpsichords or organs. I am new enough at Wikipedia that I can't find the previous articles; I hope that they were better than this one (sorry, Chris.) If I was to look for "keyboard concerto" I would expect to find very modern works, for synthesizer, not the piano, .... On third thought, I'm of the opinion that this page should be a disambiguation page, pointing to piano concerto, harpsichord concerto, organ concerto, and synthesizer concerto (assuming that there are such.) htom 00:10, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is exactly what it would become if or when enough material can be found to make three/four articles of reasonable length. Adrian M. H. 22:15, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another third opinion 

message: I am not sure whether I should consider myself an expert, but perhaps being an active amateur in classical music is enough.
There is no question that "piano concerto", "organ concerto" etc. are terms by themselves, and very different in many respects. The piano concerto is one of the major types of concerto, and withou any doubt deserves its own page. (And one which is better written than the current one, I am sorry to say.) 
I am not aware of "keyboard concerto" being a term usually applied to all of these; is there a verifiable source for that? If so, it would be worth having at least a disambiguation case. It may well be that you can make a case that there is something unifying to be said about all of these concertos. In that case, the best option would be to have a *separate* article on "keyboard concerto", which will (in addition to the general aspects) sections on "piano concerto", "organ concerto" etc., each with its own 'main article', linked via the standard macro. LR 02:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Those sub-sections with Main article links would potentially create a content fork situation, particularly unless/until significant expansion of these subjects takes place. Now that we have more responses, I will delist this issue from 3O. Adrian M. H. 22:23, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  YATO (yet another third opinion) 

message: This is probably like a 4th opinion but here goes:
Another issue you must consider is what to do about List of compositions for piano and orchestra and List of compositions for keyboard and orchestra. For this article, I agree you should work together on expanding each section before you separate the pages. Once each section is a decent length, turn this page into a disambiguation page linking to Organ, Harpsichord and Piano concerto. Also note :Category:Compositions for piano is a subcategory of :Category:Compositions for keyboard.
So maybe for the two lists you should make List of compositions for piano and orchestra and List of compositions for harpsichord and orchestra and have them disambiguated from List of compositions for keyboard and orchestra. Centy</font> – [reply]• contribs – 10:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Opinion 

message: After rather more years in music than I care to admit, I've never before heard the term "Keyboard Concerto."  It would appear to be a Wikipediaism.  In music there is reference to concertos in general of no particular kind, and piano concertos, violin concertos, organ concertos, and harpsichord concertos.  But not keyboard concertos.  While the term is a convenient generalization, we should avoid inventing vocabulary for titular convenience.
I suggest a move to "piano concerto" with the closely related harpsichord concertos as a separate topic.
The organ concerto is a wholly separate form with an independent history and as such should be treated separately.  Hayden wrote a dozen of them, recently republished by Barenreiter.  The form all but disappeared during the classical and early romantic era (a time when little organ music was written at all), and then reappeared in the late Romantic/early 20th century era of French organists - Saint-Saenz, Widor, Gullimant.  Widor used the term "symphony for organ and orchestra," eschewing use of the term "concerto" entirely.
The Uninvited Co., Inc. 21:38, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I entirely agree with the above comment (except that I have heard the phrase "Keyboard Concerto", informally used for Bach's harpsichord concertos BWV 1052-1065).  There is a huge number of works that are unequivocally classified "piano concerto", from Mozart to Penderecki and Kapustin, and another that are unquestionably classified "organ concerto" (as I write, that's a red link!) from Handel to Poulenc and beyond.  Reading previous discussions here, it seems that this article is called "keyboard concerto" because harpsichord concertos may be played on the piano.  I would completely support a split of this article to "piano concerto", "harpsichord concerto", "organ concerto".  The "piano concerto" article could have a comment that the piano concerto repertoire is often extended when harpsichord concertos are played on the piano.  --RobertG ♬ talk 10:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While Google is not really a reliable source, "keyboard concerto" gets 1.5 million hits, and on the first page, the first link is to this article, but the remaining nine are mostly to particular recordings. htom 14:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I get 42,000 hits for "keyboard concerto" (with the quotes) and just over 2,000,000 for "piano concerto" (again with the quotes).  Most of the "keyboard concerto" hits appear to be references to J.S. Bach's works that I know as the harpsichord concertos.  I believe the term "keyboard concerto" would be applied retrospectively in this case since the original titles made it clear that the works were for "Cembalo," i.e., harpsichord.   The Uninvited Co., Inc. 21:02, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

text: No answer came the loud reply.  I'll take it that silence denotes consent.  Thank you.  --RobertG ♬ talk 07:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Done.  Best wishes.  --RobertG ♬ talk 08:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks so much for doing this. It was very uncomfortable linking to this page from text saying "Piano concerto". ALTON .ıl 01:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The title