Talk:Syntonic comma

message: I think this page is hard to read, and I know quite a lot about music theory.  How could we make this more accessible?  I think the comment that the syntonic comma is the difference between the major and minor whole tones (9:8 and 10:9) is more fundamental and should go closer to the top; it's also something people can understand more readily even if they don't understand what a "limit" or "comma" is (and we can wikify the page so that they can click through if they don't understand this).  Cazort (talk) 17:42, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Confusing

message: I added an audio example to the article. Hyacinth (talk) 01:39, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be easier to understand if the two notes were played separately first, one after the other, before playing both at the same time. —David Eppstein (talk) 02:54, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It might also help to use a plainer sound than a piano, although it is nice to have an audio example at all, so thanks! I did one for the Diesis page, trying to make clear how an octave is slightly wider than three just-tuned major thirds in a row. I thought the audio example worked pretty well and considered trying to make more for other commas. But none are so simple as the Diesis. It might not be possible, but it would be impressive if one could demonstrate through audio how four just-tuned perfect fifths in a row does not end up at the same pitch as two octaves and a just major third in a row. More than I can attempt, but still something I hope might be possible. Pfly (talk) 07:06, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested audio

message: What information on this page needs to be referenced and why? Hyacinth (talk) 20:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Because this is my first contribution, I want to be sure that I have not misunderstood the original article.
In the frame on the right I see musical notation of an A and a D referenced as a "Sixth". In standard musical notation, that interval would be called a FIFTH.
I invite the original author to reply to this post.
Thanks,
Marcelde Marcelde (talk) 17:23, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not the original author, but it's an old request, and I just saw it, so I fixed it. I modified the illustration text to, "The perfect fifth above D (A+) is a syntonic comma higher than the (A♮) that is a just major sixth above C, assuming C and D are 9/8 apart." It's a complex explanation, but that's the shortest way to say it accurately, given the illustration, which is not actually a simple example. If anyone knows how to fold this topic up, please do, since it's resolved. 38.86.48.38 (talk) 04:14, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a Typo in referencing A to D as a "Sixth"? 

message: I must come back once again on an idea that I have been trying to make clear in various WP pages, mainly about "tempering out the comma", which makes no sense. The section gives no reference at all and the idea that Pythagorean tuning "prevented musicians from using triads and chords, forcing them for centuries to write music with relatively simple texture" is wishful thinking. The section further says that in 1/4-tone meantone tuning "the number of major thirds was maximized, and most minor thirds were tuned to a ratio which was very close to the just 6:5", which shows that "tempering out" the syntonic comma for the major third does not fully "temper it out" for the minor third.
I utterly fail to see how it is possible to construct the expression "temper out" in English – it merely does not exist. I also fail to understand what it means to "temper out" a comma. The single interval that is ever tempered, in any tempered tuning system, is the fifth. And a "tempered fifth" is so named because, even although tempered, it remains a fifth. I cannot imagine a fifth being "tempered out" (or what that would mean).
Tempering the fifths by 1/4 of a syntonic comma produces pure major thirds. Tempering them by 1/3 of a syntonic comma produces pure minor thirds. 1/4 and 1/3 comma meantones make some of the commas vanish, but not all of them. And making them vanish is not at all the same thing as "tempering them out". Nobody, that I know, ever tempered a comma.
At the same time, I fail to see how the top part of the figure below illustrates the syntonic comma, as the caption says. Translating the ratios in cents would give 1200 (for 2:1) 702 (for 3:2) and 386 (for 5:4). Comparing these values to the ones at the bottom, 1200, 700 and 400, does not obviously produce a syntonic comma. I wonder how many viewers noticed that the upper line (in red and blue) is slightly shorter than the second one (in black), and of those who did, how many realized that the difference is the syntonic comma. It would be simpler, and more in line with the text of the section, to show a Pythagorean major third, a just one, and a tempered one in 12TET.
 — Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 09:38, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The section on the Syntonic comma in the history of music hardly makes sense