Talk:Vedder River

message: I just made a few edits to this page. One thing I can't quite tell from reading the BCGNIS entries is whether it flows into the Fraser River or the Sumas River. The  entry says it flows into the Sumas River, but the  pages says the Fraser River. The Chilliwack entry also has info on an alteration of the river's original mouth, and there is something about the Vedder Canal. But without doing more research I can't quite tell what the deal is. So I described it as best I could for now, with footnotes. Perhaps someone can explain it better, or I'll find time to do more research. Pfly (talk) 18:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll check BC Basemap to see which is designated as having its mouth on the Fraser.  The Chilliwack River thing is difficult to explain, but easy to describe - the Chilliwack becomes the Vedder when it enters the Fraser floodplain and exits the Chilliwack River Valley; minor tributaries such as that from Cultus Lake join it there...btw while you're at the business of river-article-creation, let me suggest the Nahatlatch River, Seton River and McGregor River, which are the remaining large tributaries; see Talk:List of British Columbia rivers for more on redirects to provpark articles in some cases which maybe should be fixed into having separate articles for the creeks....Churn Creek primarily as it's a major tributary, but there are others also...Skookum1 (talk) 20:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I just checked, the Vedder Canal/River is a tributary of the Sumas, not the other way around; the ref on the Chilliwack River would appear to mean "eventually is a tributary of the Fraser River [after becoming the Vedder and joining the Sumas]".  The Vedder Canal pretty much shoudl have an article as it's in teh "buildings and structures" categorization, or maybe that could be applied to this article as most of the river's length is canal; it's a drainage canal which keeps the waters of the Chilliwack/Vedder from flooding Sumas Prairie and most of Chilliwack on a very-annual basis....Dyking systems in the Fraser Valley is probably a worthwhile article some day, as it's such a big part of the human geographic reality of the Lower Mainland, much of which wouldn't be habitable if it weren't for the dykes and the Sumas and Vedder canals (the Sumas is pretty much an artificial drainage channel, though not exactly a canal).Skookum1 (talk) 20:17, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I just dug up some info on it and found some interesting historical stuff about why the name changes and so on, and that yes it feeds into the Sumas River. I'll add what info I've found. Check out the footnotes more more. It also appears that the Sumas River used to flow into a large and seasonally changing lake on the Fraser floodplain, but was drained in the early 20th century. Sounds like the landscape in this particular area has been radically transformed. Pfly (talk) 21:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

text: It's funny - I've been up into and around BC a bunch of times, but never through the Fraser Valley; never even seen the river, except while crossing it on the way to Vancouver or crossing someplace in the interior like Lillooet. Our less-than-epic-length forays typically aim for Squamish and perhaps the Garibaldi area for hikes and snowshoeing, etc. On the other hand, we've cross the border at Sumas, which requires at least some traverse of the lower Fraser Valley- though from the highway it just looks like any old sprawl. The river diversion stuff reminds me of similar, if smaller scale, stuff that happened down in the Puget Sound region- especially the logjam-made-permanent diversion of the White River into the Puyallup. Similar issues with flooding and farm land being made from floodplains. Still there's no river in the Puget Sound region anywhere close to the size of the Fraser. I can just imagine the lower Fraser Valley's flood and flood control history being rather monumental. It's just something that hadn't occurred to me before looking into the Vedder, Chilliwack, and Sumas Rivers. I did find a number of websites with info about the draining and dyking and so on, but nothing extremely detailed in my cursory search. One hit was a Google Books book about mosquitos that had a section on Sumas Lake. Anyway, I gotta run, but as a final tidbit, you mentioned the fishery thing on the Fraser, which reminds me again of Mackie's interesting info about how the non-indigenous fishery began with HBC's Fort Langely, which apparently did almost or better with salmon exports than with furs in the 1830s and 40s- the fish being pickled and barreled and exported to Oahu, Hawaii, and Yerba Bunea, California. As I understand it, once they got the hang of preserving salmon the Fraser salmon commanded better prices than the Columbia salmon exported from Fort Vancouver. Ok, gotta put the kid to bed. Pfly (talk) 03:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: River's mouth

message: :::If you'l start me a Seton River stub I'll flesh it out, I'm just not in the mood for raw-article creation right now, been up sicne early on a film shoot....the Seton was renamed/upgraded to full river nomenclature after being Seton Creek for years, and locally it's still referred to as Cayoosh Creek, a designation which formally ends at their confluence near Seton Lake but which isn't reflected in local usage -which is why the bridge across it just below the town of Lillooet still says "Cayoosh Creek" (I'll get someone totake a snap to that effect).  The section between Anderson and Seton Lakes was for al ong time called th Portage River, then Seton Portage River, now it's been "absorbed' by the new Seton River designation - the Gates River, which feeds Anderson Lake, hasn't been however, which is inconsistent but so are a lot of things in BC nomenclature.Skookum1 (talk) 20:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was also called a "strait" at one point in reference to the 3km length between Anderson and Seton Lakes, I guess wishful or promotional thinking to make the Lakes Route sound easier; but it's very much a creek and not flatwater in the slightest....there may have been canal plans once-upon-a-time too.....(if the Birkenhead and Gates had been at all navigable one might have actually gotten built...).Skookum1 (talk) 20:26, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, done, Seton River. I didn't read the rest of your comment here until now, and now see why I couldn't find the river in my little map book. Its labeled Cayoosh Creek. Btw, it looks like List of British Columbia rivers has the "old style" names, if I understood your above comments right. Pfly (talk) 20:32, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Seton River

message: Pretty clear this article could benefit from an illuatrative, rather than a locational map (worthwhile switches to add to the reqmap template no? Hmmm), showing the various stretches of the river's name, and also Chilliwack Creek.  About which:
:The former course of the Chilliwack River below Vedder Crossing is now known as Chilliwack Creek, which flows north to the Fraser River.[7]
Gets me wondering about the complex sloughs along the Fraser, and which of them could have been considered part of the Chilliwack's subdelta within the Fraser's.  BTW the Fraser Delta is designated on a highway overlook on the "Agassiz Mountain" (actually Mount Woodside, but the colloquial meaning is teh mountain road that gets you to, or is near, Agassiz) which says that the area below, Rosedale Prarie on the south and Agassiz Prairie on the north, are where the delta begins; excluding interpolary uplands that is.  I think S. Holland defines Fraser Lowland as a geographic unit, not sure if he distinguishes Fraser Delta; to me that would tend to mean Lulu Island and South Delta, not upstream from it; so usages vary.  The idea is that the old Chilliwack River must have hit around the maze of sloughs in that area; the end of its official course at the time of its existence may not correspond with the outlet of Chilliwack Creek....just speculating....Skookum1 (talk) 02:32, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Map issues

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