Talk:Chocolate/Archive 1

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa states it's native of the andes and the orinoco basin and that it was imported to mexico by the mayas. This article says it's native to central america and Mexico. So, which one is true? consistency is needed.DamianFinol 19:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin? 

message: "The first recorded shipment of chocolate to the new world for commercial purposes was in a shipment from Veracruz? to Seville? in 1585."
To the new world?
What's the source on this? Seville makes sense, it was a center of trade with the new world, and the early Spanish writers on chocolate (Hernandez, Barrios) were Sevillianos, but I'm having trouble finding accurate sources on when trade began.
I don't know if this is helpful to you at all, but on another acurate site, I discovered that chocolate was discovered by Cortés in 1521 and collected as spoils of war when Cortés conquered the Aztecs. From then on, cacao was transported to Europe with the help of enslaved Mesoamericans. Smartestbrunette 23:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First recorded shipment of chocolate 

message: The "European rules" seem to be incorrect. It must be 35% (25%) cocoa liquor or perhaps even just cocoa--I don't know which is right, and coudn't google out the regulations. I believe it cannot be "cocoa solids" (as it is now), because a 60%-cocoa dark chocolate would have much less solids than that (cocoa = solids+cocoa butter = 60%). --Glimz 05:00, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)
Cocoa liquor is simply roasted, ground and melted cocoa beans, nothing more or less.  Typically to make "chocolate" one has to add more fat (in the form of cocoa butter) along with sugar and an emulsifier (plus milk, if that's your thing), but yes cocoa liquor is nothing more than melted, ground up cocoa nibs.  And yes, I'm an authority on this. ;) --MUSpud2 16:56, 25 May 2006 
There should probably be something about the British chocolate controversy here.  In fact it'd be a good idea to list varieties of chocolate associated with different parts of the world more generally, as I'm sure 'milk chocolate' and its synonyms mean different things in different places.  Incompetent 17:57, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  European rules 

message: Someone might have some use for this... : http://www.physorg.com/news1208.html This is some sort of scientific analysis of chocolate, but it's a bit beyond me.. Rhymeless 01:18, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting article 

message: (William M. Connolley 19:02, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  The picture 

message: The melting point of cocoa butter lies at about 33 degrees C.
So, IMHO it cannot be correct that they reheat the melting to 37
degrees C in tempering process.
The melting point of pure substances often chances when things are put into them as a suspension or dissovled in. That's why we grit the roads during winter - it lowers the freezing point of the water to lower than the ambient temperature, meaning the ice melts and the roads are safer.
As to the melting point used during tempering, the article is nearly correct. The actual temperature used varies depending on the type of chocolate in use. The lower the cocoa solids content, the lower the temperature used. When I was working as a chocolatier for Barry-Callebaut, the process was as follows:
 - Melt 70% of the chocolate you'll need at 37 centigrade
 - Bring the temperature down to 2 degrees centigrade below the operating temperature you will use by adding the other 30% of the chocolate drops you will be using
 - Set the temperature on the machine to the operating temperature (2 degrees hotter than the mix is currently).
The operating temperature was different for different types of chocolate - the belgian dark chocolate was operated at 35 centigrade, the milk at 34, and the white at 33.
When poured into a mould, chocolate should be allowed to cool in the air - it shrinks as it does so, so the mould doesn't need any coating prevent it from sticking to the mould.
Chocolate also behaves like glass - if it is cooled very quickly it retains some liquid properties. Here's something to try at home to show this - you will need a slab of something smooth (a marble cheese board is ideal for this), a spatula and some chocolate to melt.
 - Place the marble cheese board in the freezer for an hour or two (or just pour liquid nitrogen on it, if you happen to have that handy).
 - Melt some chocolate, and keep at around body temperature.
 - Pour the melted chocolate onto the frozen cheeseboard, and spread to a few millimetres thick with the spatula. It should cease looking wet very quickly, and when it does so, it's too late to spread it further.
This chocolate is now "set", but should still be easily bendable. Personally, I make a lattice out of white and dark chocolate to curl over the top of a slice of homemade cheesecake to serve for desert, but then i'm a bit of a show-off - it's also great fun for the kids to do, and then they get to eat bendy chocolate.
-- rik
At kitchen you always have some already hardened chocolate.
You need not temper the melting if you just drop some hard pieces of
chocolate into the melting whilst cooling down to somewhat below the melting
point (32 degrees C) Then fish out the rests of the hard pieces
and your melt will cristallize fastly and perfectly at room 
--62.253.148.52 01:41, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: When I was flying from RSW to CLE on USA-3000, the inflight entertainment included a special on chocolate. Intrestingly, This mostly covered the scientific properties of chocolate. Anyway, my point is that it was mentioned that Hershey's was commitioned to make chocolate for the troops in Afganistan. The tempering process was modified to produce chocolate that did not melt till, I think it was, 130 degrees F. LexieM 06:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tempering 

message: The article states that there is caffeine in chocolate (though in very small amounts).  But this site (which we link to in the theobromine article) states that caffeine does not occur naturally in chocolate.  Which is it?  Most sites state there is little caffeine in chocolate, but the site above claims its a myth.  Which is it?  Anyone know? — Frecklefoot | Talk 18:51, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
:I don't think there is caffeine at all.  If there is, it is the same amount as most vegetables, e.g. negligible.  Much like how all nightshade plants contain nicotine, but only a few such as tobacco contain significant amounts of it.  But I am not entirely sure...  Either way, it does not make me worry about caffeine when eating chocolate where I know that caffeine has not been added by the manufacturer. - Gilgamesh 03:59, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think some websites should be disregarded simply as a penalty for using certain color schemes. "Full results are on the Science Page." + "Cacao does not naturally contain any caffeine. See the Caffeine section." And he complains about circular references? In one place it's explained that "theobromide" is incorrect, in another place the term is mixed with "theobromine" in the same paragraph. The whole reasoning seems to center around that caffeine was not detected by The Biochemist, (Apr/May 1993, p 15). Other references that do list caffeine are circular or wrong. — Really, I don't think there should be changed anything in the article until there are a few other independent sources that say the same. Femto 20:29, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: *Thomas JB et al. Determination of Caffeine, Theobromine, and Theophylline in Standard Reference Material 2384, Baking Chocolate, Using Reversed-Phase Liquid Chromatography. J. Agric. Food Chem. 2004, 52, 3259-3263.
--Soundray 17:54, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caffeine 

message: The article claims first that "In baking use natural cocoa in recipes which call for baking soda (because it's an alkali)", but then later in the same paragraph claims "Dutch-process cocoa has been processed with alkali to neutralize its natural acidity..."  These contradict.  Is natural cocoa (non-dutch-processed) acidic or alkali?  -- Kaszeta 19:36, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps it's just badly-worded; baking soda is the alkali referred to.  -- Logotu 22:29, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction regarding cocoa powder? 

message: Is the sugar used in chocolate-making refined, like other sugars, through animal char?
:I added a blurb on veganism, since someone I know was just asking about it. The sugar can be processed in different ways and I don't think anyone actually tracks which type is used in commercial chocolate. Janet13 23:05, July 2, 2005 [EST]
::The statement, There is a lot of debate over whether commercial chocola is vegan seems unnecessary. Vegans either buy commerical chocolate products that are clearly marked "vegan", or they don't; it's pretty simple.  I don't see what the "debate" is about; it's either vegan or it isn't. --Viriditas  | Talk 11:36, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vegetarians & Chocolate