Talk:Saladin

message: The Third Crusade section is a mess. I would like to clean it up with some edits. There was never a battle near Ascalon between Richard and Saladin's forces. Also, the siege and battle of Jaffa of 1192 are not mentioned. Also, the section seems to imply that Richard made an attempt to capture Jerusalem, which he did not, he only made maneuvers near Jerusalem but never actually besieged the city.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hutin5432 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third Crusade 

message: Some time ago, I added the Ash'ari school of theology to the infobox of this article. The references for this are taken from the following texts:
* Saladin was an adherent and patron of the Ash'arite school of Sunni theology, a school that contemporary Salafis and Wahhabis like Usama bin Laden and Mullah Omar, consider to be a blasphemous heresy.  Reference: Halverson, Jeffry R.; Corman, Steven R.; Goodall Jr., H. L. (2011). Master Narratives of Islamist Extremism. Palgrave Macmillan. p. 201. .
* "Soon thereafter, other major proponents of Ash'ari thought appeared, such as al-Qushayri, al-Juwayni, al-Ghazali, Salah al-Din al-Ayyubi (known as Saladin), Ibn Tumart and others." Reference: Spevack, Aaron (2014) [2008]. The Archetypal Sunni Scholar: Law, Theology, and Mysticism in the Synthesis of Al-Bajuri. State University of New York Press. p. 44. .
* Maqrizi is also very explicit as to the theological teachings supported by Saladin and his regime: it was the Ash'ari doctrine. Reference: Lēv, Yaacov (1999). Saladin in Egypt. Brill. p. 131. .
 
This was removed by . I fail to see why given that this is useful information. In particular, modern terrorist groups such as Al-Qaeda consider Saladin to be there hero (see for example Strategy: The Deep Battle Against America by By Michael W. S. Ryan [Columbia University Press]) despite the fact that his school of theology was actually very different. Perhaps this should be expanded in the article but I fail to see why it should be removed entirely from the infobox.  RookTaker (talk) 07:53, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: What theological teaching do Al-Qaeda follow? Alexis Ivanov (talk) 22:20, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I believe his madhab is more important then his creed. The Salafists view him as a hero because he was a muslim. I dont think it is because of the fact that he had the same ideology.  Al Qaeda follows Salafism and Wahhabism, and some have said they follow a form of Qutbism as well. Blizzio (talk) 16:18, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ash'ari 

message: Should we also add his madhab in the infobox as well? Blizzio (talk) 15:09, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: , ,  I'm not sure what the standard practice is with these situations. Personally, I think it's sufficient to say he was a Sunni Muslim in the infobox and go more in detail about his creed/madhab in the article's main body. He followed the Shafi'i madhab, but he was a staunch Sunni Muslim and was the patron for madrasas in Cairo and Damascus for all four of the Sunni madhabs. --Al Ameer (talk) 16:51, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest removal of religion from the infobox completely. seeing that Baldwin IV of Jerusalem has no mention of religion Blizzio (talk) 13:21, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I would support adding it to Baldwin. Removing information is never appropriate. We're not in print. — LlywelynII 13:53, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Madhab 

message: I'm not sure if the Syrian invasion section of Saladin's article is just wrong or badly formatted, but it's currently discussing events in May 1175 before those in April. — LlywelynII 13:19, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Chronology

message: Please someone correct that nonsense in 'Wars against Crusaders' section.
Some joker has linked Iranian province Adharbayjan (Azerbaijan) with the modern country Azerbaijan (Republic) which didn't even exist in the 10th century. Yes, its funny..
'However, since then, Masʻūd had allied himself with the powerful governor of Azerbaijan and Jibal, who in 1185..' 
Thank you. --Alecx (talk) 20:59, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made this change, but please refrain from attacking other editors and assume good faith. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 22:16, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adharbayjan or Azerbaijan - the Iranian province 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Saladin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090304191952/http://www.third-millennium-library.com:80/readinghall/GalleryofHistory/Saladin/LIFE-DOOR.html to http://www.third-millennium-library.com/readinghall/GalleryofHistory/Saladin/LIFE-DOOR.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 13:59, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'd like to request adding the recently published magazine article to further reading. I believe it will assist those doing research on Saladin's campaign of 1187. 
Welsh, William E. "Saladin's Battle for Jerusalem," All About History, June 2016, Issue 40, pp. 54-61.
Update: 7-4-16
To whom it may concern: 
I made the request above about adding Welsh's magazine article, and I hereby withdraw the request. I apologize for the intrusion. 
HistorianVictory
HistorianVictory (talk) 08:15, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: Request withdrawn by user. nyuszika7h (talk) 16:19, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 July 2016 

message: I requset that to add his orgin (kurdish) in there infobox.Ibrahim aziz (talk) 15:30, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you want to explain why? As far as I know we don't list ethnicity in infoboxes: see Richard I of England ~ Zirguezi 00:24, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: infobox

message: There is no doubt that Tikrit (the birth city of Saladin) is an Iraqi city. Moreover, Tikrit nowadays is the capital city Saladin province/governor, which is the official name of an Iraqi province (since 1976). Tikrit Hence, it would be more honest if you add "Tikrit (modern-day Iraq)" in addition to the past Abbasid Caliphate in the "Born" city portal. The current version includes Upper Mesopotamia, which does not provide clear information about the location because Upper Mesopotamia is not a country, nor an official province at all. Please, most of the Iraqis will be disappointed if that lack of clarity would still there.
Thank you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikrit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin_Governorate  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.216.53.166 (talk) 17:37, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: For place names, you need to refer to WP:MPN; historic contexts will receive historic place names. Since it already states Tikrit, the hyperlink gives the reader indication of modern Iraq. DA1 (talk) 14:16, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: On a related note, there is some issue with the Birth_place in the infobox where it states "Tikrit, Upper Mesopotamia, Abbasid Caliphate". Saladin was purportedly born on the day of his family's exile from Tikrit, but Tikrit was a part of the Seljuk Empire not the Abbassids, the latter had already been a shell of its former self. Nonetheless, the article mentions they were banished by Seljuk governor Bihruz, and resettled in Zengid territory (also Seljuk). While Bihruz doesn't have an article on wikipedia, he is mentioned as a Seljuk governor in other articles as well, see Ayyubid_dynasty#Origins. His father was himself a warden/governor of the Seljuks in Tikrit. So not sure why the disparity in the infobox; anyone have any comments before I edit it? -DA1 (talk) 14:49, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  editing- Saladin's birth location 

message: wow  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.216.37.110 (talk) 01:23, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  wow 

message: Talk about his uncle and his relationship 50.193.223.217 (talk) 21:48, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  —  IVORK Discuss 22:01, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 February 2018 

message: if he did hail from the The Rawadid tribe (a Kurdicized tribe of arab origins), doesn't that make him an arab?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arabos (talk • contribs) 06:40, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That tribe is Arab it wasn't really kurdicized that much. They were known to be Arabs. So he definitely is Arab Quirk1 (talk) 02:31, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Rawadid tribe 

message: The name is given as "An-Nasir Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub" in English and as "صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب‎" in Arabic.
These are not equivalent. The word "An-Nasir" is missing entirely and the word "ibn" is different.
I don't know what the article should say instead. 79.180.55.69 (talk) 03:06, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Arabic and English names differ 

message: Change "Palestine" to "Kingdom of Jerusalem" to remove intentionally misleading historical revision. 82.81.82.30 (talk) 11:44, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: .  Please establish a WP:CONSENSUS for this change before making this edit request.  –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 14:23, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2019 

message: Within the intro and elsewhere, for most readers I think it would be more effective and educational to say something like this:
Saladin's large sultanate ultimately ranged from Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Sudan to Syria and northern Iraq, and it included western Arabia (for instance, Mecca and Medina) southward all the way to Yemen.
Dr.Bastedo (talk) 22:13, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Describing  Saladin's  empire 

message: :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawadid_dynasty
:Rawwadid or Ravvadid (also Revend or Revendi) or Banū Rawwād (955–1071), was a Muslim ruling family centered in historic Azerbaijan (also known as Iranian Azerbaijan) between the late 8th and early 13th centuries.[1]
:Originally of Azdi Arab descent,[2] the Rawadids ruled Tabriz and northeastern Azerbaijan in the late 8th and early 9th centuries.[1] The family became Kurdicized by the early 10th century and became centered on Tabriz and Maragheh.[3] In the second half of the 10th century and much of the 11th century, these Kurdicized descendants controlled much of Azerbaijan as well as parts of Armenia.[1]
:62.0.34.134 (talk) 13:14, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Banu Rawwad / Rawwadid tribe is not a kurdish tribe but an Azdi Arab tribe Quirk1 (talk) 02:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  If Saladin was from the Kurdish Rawadiya tribe, then would he not have been of Arab origin? 

message: The painting of Saladin is already in the Legacy section. This fine bust of Saladin is a beautiful piece of art which really should represent a great historical figure on Wikipedia. Karamanli86 (talk) 16:08, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image change 

message: Please change the main portrait from a bust of Saladin as portrayed by Ghassan Massoud in the 2005 film KINGDOM OF HEAVEN to an earlier, preferably medieval depiction. OleJPColeman (talk) 18:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: . You need to suggest a specific one that's suitable for hosting on Commons. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 19:06, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 5 August 2020 

message: I reverted recent changes to the lead, including to his name, and generally restored the long-standing version with some modifications. To summarize: "Al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub" would be his most common full name, though it is often prefaced with "Al-Malik", which I did not add. A footnote could be added right after his name showing additional titles but the only sources used for this should be academic. With a subject as researched as Saladin, we ought to rely strictly on academic sources, i.e. better than Maimonides: The Life and World of One of Civilization's Greatest Minds. English translations of the titles would be useful as well. Saladin was a sovereign ruler and it is most appropriate to start the lead off by saying he was the sultan of Egypt and Syria and founder of the Ayyubid dynasty or the same thing in reverse order, as opposed to stating his ethnicity first. Same for the Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid caliphs, same for the Mamluk and Ottoman sultans, as well as Saladin's Ayyubid successors. The next sentence begins that he was a Sunni Muslim Kurd and led the Muslim campaigns against the Crusader states. I saw that his being a Sunni Muslim was removed, but in this case it's actually a vital fact. Saladin transitioned Egypt, a major country, from Shia Fatimid rule to Sunni rule, switched its allegiance to the Sunni Abbasids, and aggressively promoted the Sunni schools of jurisprudence in Egypt and Syria. 
As for the modifications to the long-standing versions: I removed all citations from the lead. They do not belong here. The information is sourced in the article body; anything that was not, is now. The fact that he was an ethnic Kurd is undisputed in the reliable, scholarly sources, so we don't need to 'secure' this fact in the lead with multiple citations. I deleted that he was the "first Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques". The source used is Arab News and it is not convincing. If this could be backed by reliable, academic sources, then it should be added to the article. I removed the strange sentence of him being "described as the de-facto Caliph of Islam" backed by two weak sources for such a statement: Kadir Natho's Circassian History and Chris McNab's Famous Battles of the Medieval Period. --Al Ameer (talk) 18:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead 

message: i dont no how to use this sorry please don't ban me TZS Dream OnYt (talk) 19:39, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: this is for requesting edits to an article.  Post your suggestions in the form of "change X to Y" and provide sources.  RudolfRed (talk) 20:26, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2021 

message: 1. In the first sentence, the bracket where you have written his name in Kurdish and Arabic:
* There's a small typo in the Kurdish part (not the Latin one), it's an extra letter which needs to be removed.
* Put the Arabic after Kurdish because he is Kurdish, not Arabic.
* Remove the "romanized: " text in the Kurdish part because it's not romanized, it's just his name in one of the Kurdish alphabets.
With all of the changes above, it will be:
Al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub (; ; 11374 March 1193), better known simply as Salah ad-Din or Saladin (;), was a Sunni Muslim Kurd and the first sultan of Egypt and Syria and founder of the Ayyubid dynasty.
If you just want to correct the typo described the first edit request, it will be:
Al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub (; ; 11374 March 1193), better known simply as Salah ad-Din or Saladin (;), was a Sunni Muslim Kurd and the first sultan of Egypt and Syria and founder of the Ayyubid dynasty.
Regards, RealRojSerbest (talk).
2. I'd like to suggest adding Lessing's play, NATHAN THE WISE (1779), to the cultural legacy portion. There is already a Wikipedia article on this particular play, which was very influential in the way that westerners saw Saladin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_the_Wise
Thanks,
Jeri (meerkat7)
IP: 2603:7000:6402:9bac:d48a:e8dd:3699:6637  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:6402:9BAC:D48A:E8DD:3699:6637 (talk) 21:08, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, the names should be added. @RealRojSerbest request makes this page more legible. The name should be in brackets () OM262464 (talk) 00:12, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some small edit requests 

message: Add the novel [Talisman] by Sir Walter Scott to the Novels section under Cultural Depictions of Saladin. He is a primary character in this book. 104.128.167.195 (talk) 21:32, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:28, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2021 

message: Saladin was a sufi, so why not add this in? Abdul Qadir Gilani ق was very influential in that era and Salahuddin even met him. Notrealtime (talk) 11:20, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 11:49, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 September 2021 

message: 77.244.126.30 (talk) 08:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:49, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2021 

message: Where's Age of Empires 2's Saladin campaign reference in the video game section? It was important enough to the developers for it to be a part of the initial launch and covered a bit of the crusades. I know it's not accurate to say the least, but it is a part of him being in video games. Source: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Saladin  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.24.170.113 (talk) 17:33, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Computer gaming question

message: The Pringle ref is currently given as:
* 
...and the p=208
This cannot be right. In 1993, Pringle had vol=1 published:
* 
Vol 3 was published in 2007 (Yeah; google got the date wrong 😟):
*  
So, is the correct ref Pringle, 1993, p   208; or Pringle, 2007, p.  208?? I cannot  see that either page is relevant? What  am I missing? Huldra (talk) 23:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Found it! It is in Pringle, 1993, p   208, 2nd column.Huldra (talk) 21:44, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pringle ref 

message: Can someone with editing powers add that the coin depicted in the infobox was minted by the Artuqids in modern day eastern Turkey?
Source:
https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=266414
189.193.83.122 (talk) 22:55, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Provenance of the coin  

message: Selahaddin Eyyubi's mother, Amine Hatun bin Onur, is the sister of the Seljuk Harim Emir (governor) Shihabeddin Mahmud ibn Tokus al-Harimi. Selahaddin Eyyubi's mother is Turkish. If Salahaddin Eyyubi's father is Kurdish (it was not fully proven at that point), would a well-established institution like Wikipedia accept the sexist approach that a person's ancestry is descended from his father? A person inherits half of his genes from his mother. Then you are contradicting your own values ​​as Wikipedia. Flagellum Dei ATTILA (talk) 09:18, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It was a patriarchal, tribal society, so he was naturally considered part of the tribe of his father. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:37, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: This doesn't change the truth you said. Saladin carries half of his mother's genes.This gene is the Seljuk Turk gene. Flagellum Dei ATTILA (talk) 12:17, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If Wikipedia does not provide accurate information about Saladin's mother, Wikipedia's alleged credibility will be lost. Flagellum Dei ATTILA (talk) 12:33, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not how Wikipedia works. You need to provide sources clearly asserting this information and, even then, only if it is referenced in as many reputable sources as his father's lineage should we give it equal weight. Iskandar323 (talk) 13:05, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

text: Since there is no information about Saladin's mother in Wikipedia, the storks must have brought Saladin to his father.It's very logical. Flagellum Dei ATTILA (talk) 13:54, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have no interest in furnishing sources, expect no interest from editors in editing. Iskandar323 (talk) 13:59, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I second what Iskandar323 said. I would also advise Flagellum Dei ATTILA to read up on WP:FORUM and WP:SOAPBOX. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

text: It sure seems like Flagellum Dei ATTILA is currently engaged in vandalizing this talk page, as well as Talk:Shirkuh (see history) and Talk:Najm al-Din Ayyub (). Note that, if necessary, it is possible to semi-protect talk pages, so I suggest the vandal stop wasting their time. R Prazeres (talk) 19:14, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Selahaddin Eyyubi's mother is of Turkish descent and Wikipedia contradicts its own values 

message: The infobox says 1174, but in the section "Sultan of Egypt", there is no mention of Saladin acquiring the title of Sultan. The Fatimid Caliphate is said to have been overthrown in 1171 at the death of the last Caliph, so was Saladin de facto Sultan? Was he still a vizier? What does the 1174 date mean? Was there an interregnum? Furthermore, the only mention of Saladin becoming Sultan is in the section "Further Conquests of Syria", which seems to have taken place in 1175 or 1176, according to the article, and so I ask again, what is the purpose of the 1174 date!
Bottom line is that this is misleading and confusing. I have no idea when this man assumed power, because had I not read the rest of the article, I would have assumed it was 1174, despite the fact that nothing in the article actually supports that claim. Pz Kmpf VI Ausf B (talk) 01:53, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article is not clear on when he became Sultan 

message: Palestine never existed it was a region of people that included Jews, Christians and Muslims. 68.146.140.177 (talk) 03:01, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 06:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2023 

message: in the Conquest of the Kingdom, this article refers to Kingdom of Jerusalem (which was the name of the land at that time) as Palestine. That's a major mistake. 2A0D:6FC7:524:C240:D916:2AB2:319F:60B2 (talk) 16:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kingdom of Jerusalem 

message: According to the citation 115, it is said that Saladin destroyed church towers and turned them into stables, but no such credible text can be found in history, except this accusation in this one book. Ethics and code of conduct of Saladin is known around the world.
According to:
Under the headline of The Fate of the Native Christians: Akhn54 (talk) 20:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: After an intense search of Dovid Rossoff / Eli Linas, I found nothing that convinces me that "Where Heaven Touches Earth", would be considered a reliable source. I have, therefore, removed the sentence and the reference. --Kansas Bear (talk) 13:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accusation of turning churches into stables and destroying church towers 

message: Creed    =   Ashari 105.184.13.15 (talk) 18:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 19:41, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2024 

message: The caption below the laser-enhanced view of the city gate reads:
"Isometric laser scan data image of the Bab al-Barqiyya Gate in the 12th century Ayyubid Wall. This fortified gate was constructed with interlocking volumes that surrounded the entrant in such a way as to provide greater security and control than typical city wall gates."
It would be very helpful if the (totally obvious) question of Which city is this a gate of? were answered in this caption. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:200:c082:2ea0:fc98:eafb:7a0e:c355 (talk • contribs) 
:It is in Cairo. I have updated the caption, thanks. Moons of Io (talk) 12:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which city?