Talk:Tenderloin, San Francisco

message: I removed this quote from the text as the Barbary Coast referred to another part of town in the 19th century.
: "...the haunt of the low and vile of every kind. The petty thief, the house burglar, the tramp, the whoremonger, lewd women, cut-throats and murderers, all are found there. Dance-houses and concert saloons, where bleary-eyed men and faded women drink vile liquor, smoke offensive tobacco, engage in vulgar conduct, sing obscene songs, and say and do everything to heap upon themselves more degradation, unrest and misery, are numerous. Low gambling houses thronged with riot-loving rowdies in all stages of intoxication are there. Opium dens, where heathen Chinese and God-forsaken women and men are sprawled in miscellaneous confusion, disgustingly drowsy, or completely overcome by inhaling the vapours of the nauseous narcotic, are there. Licentiousness, debauchery, pollution, loathsome disease, insanity from dissipation, misery, poverty, wealth, profanity, blasphemy and death are there. And Hell, yawning to receive the putrid mass, is there also. 
: — B. E. Lloyd, refering to the Barbary Coast
- Trick 02:12, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Quotes

message: I've lived in the SF area for 35 years, and had numerous friends in the Tenderloin, and working for local community groups. The "police can afford to eat tenderloin" origin is considered folklore at best. The more likely origin is a reference to the older NYC district with similar characteristics, or a similar naming as the "soft underbelly" of the city with reference to vice, graft, and corruption.  --MCB 20:48, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As a rank outsider who ended up on this page trying to work out where someone was euphemisitically referring to having visited simply saying "the tenderloin" (as well as it being gentrified to the chagrin of a lot of residents, and on the coast somewhere vaguely near attractive beaches, so I figure it's this one), I was immediately struck by the similarity between its shape and positioning within the city versus that of the namesake cut of meat in the cow: a wide, horizontal triangle buried within a number of other neighborhoods / muscle groups. Might that be a more logical origin, especially from the days where people were more routinely familiar with the naming of cuts, and it may have been occupied by a large contingent of slaughterhouse workers with an ironic sense of humour concerning their own living conditions and diet as contrasted with the area's appearance on a map? 146.199.0.164 (talk) 13:53, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  How it got its name 

message: Besides promoting a video, the link to photos also has products for sale on shirts, caps, bags, mugs with photos from the website. Commerce = Commercialism. Linking to Bumfights where the site owner get a 20% comission on sales = Commercialism. 
It is definately a website promoting a commercial interest. It is SPAM, the user 66.159.223.15 continues to add the link and nothing more to Wikipedia. It should be removed.
Can you prove that the site owner gets 20% commission of the sales of Bumfights videos or are you pulling that claim straight out of your ass?
I could make the claim that you are a homosexual prostitute that specializes in beastiality but that doesn't necessarily make it true...or does it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.48.244.200 (talk) 19:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commercial Website 

message: First, please avoid edit wars, they serve no purpose.  Instead of constantly reverting, discuss this in a civil manner on the talk page.
Second, I agree that the link adds nothing to the article and is not needed, and is more than likely commercial SPAM. 
Third, if all else fails, submit the dispute to WP:RFC, but please try to work it out here first. Peyna 00:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  An outsider's view 

message: tenderloin.net has 255 web pages.  most of those pages contain photos only, no text.
253 of those pages do not contain commercial content in any form--text links, google adwords style or doubleclick banner style.
2 of those 255 web pages contain simple text links to commercial sites but these text links are in the form of editorial recommendations, not paid advertisments.
in light of these facts:
- please explain how tenderloin.net is a commercial site promoting a product.  
- please explain how externally linking to tenderloin.net from this article is of significant financial benefit to anyone.
===RFC===
A partial request for an WP:RFC on the inclusion of a link to Tenderloin.net has been made at This RFC
First, please be aware that Wikipedia is not a collection of external links. In general we are quite happy if articles have _no_ external links apart from references - we would much rather have the content inside the Wiki where it can be editted by all. Nevertheless there can be advantages in including some well chosen external links that are particularly appropriate to topic and can't be included in any other way.
Tenderloin.net appears to be a collection of photographs of people in and around Tenderloin, San Francisco, so it is not completely off topic. However it doesn't add much of relevance and appears to be POV pushing so is probably better removed. The author might prefer to contribute some photos under a free license to Wikimedia Commons. -- Solipsist 09:07, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  2 out of 255 is hardly commercial or promotional content 

message: A partial request for an WP:RFC on the inclusion of a link to Tenderloin.net has been made at This RFC
First, please be aware that Wikipedia is not a collection of external links. In general we are quite happy if articles have _no_ external links apart from references - we would much rather have the content inside the Wiki where it can be editted by all. Nevertheless there can be advantages in including some well chosen external links that are particularly appropriate to topic and can't be included in any other way.
Tenderloin.net appears to be a collection of photographs of people in and around Tenderloin, San Francisco, so it is not completely off topic. However it doesn't add much of relevance and appears to be POV pushing so is probably better removed. The author might prefer to contribute some photos under a free license to Wikimedia Commons. -- Solipsist 09:07, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: RFC

message: I post this message due to the severe edit war taking place:
My I ask all parties involved in edit war to stop reverting edits, especially refering to the external link on this page. If you do so you run the rish of breaking WP:3RR (The three revert rule), and if this happens you may be blocked from editing. Any user who is having their edits reverted by multiple users, and is restoring them will be placed forth for Adminstrator intervention, and for further action to be taken. Thank you for reading this. Ian13 20:07, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert War 

message: So, I can't really tell what the final outcome of the dispute between the promoters of bumfights/tenderloin.net and their detractor was from the posts above but it seems clear to me that 1) tenderloin.net is essentially an advertisement for bumfight products and 2) the POV expressed at tenderloin.net is hostile, insensitive, and cruel in regard to its treatment of the homeless and mentally ill.  One page of photographs is accompanied by the heading:"Another afternoon in the Loin - Dealers, pimps, hookers, freaks and lazy bastards".  The photos that follow would perhaps be an acceptably neutral observations of homeless life were they not prefaced with such a degrading caption.  Not only is tenderloin.net crass and exploitative of the "freaks and lazy bastards" it showcases, it is attempting to make money at the expense of some of the most destitute and unfortunate people in the First World.  As of 2:05 AM, 5/29/06, the external link to this pathetic display of sadistic cruelty still exists.  Can anyone possibly justify why it should remain? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.81.241.217 (talk • contribs) 
:I took out the link but probably won't be on Wikipedia much for the next few weeks, and I don't want to get sucked into an edit war.  I do have a few TL pictures of my own that I might upload if I can find them. Phr (talk) 09:29, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree that the article takes too much of a real-estate-salespersons-point-of-view for my tastes.  I may try to tone it down when I get back to editing. Phr (talk) 09:34, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Tenderloin in Pictures 

message: While it's no surprise that people fight about this article, the level of vitriol here would embarrass anyone who actually works or lives in the Tenderloin who also sees this site. If you promote anything besides *fact* here, get a grip. It's an encyclopedia - not a soapbox. Thanks, Throbblefoot 07:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No surprise that people might fight about this article 

message: Whatever one's personal definition of the Tenderloin is, the article should reflect common usage. This does often include the lower Polk Gulch region and the area immediately south of, or on the southern slopes of, Nob Hill - see some of the links, and the discussion on gentrification - and thus should be mentioned in the article. Also, the Castro isn't a very good choice to set the location of the Tenderloin as the two neighborhoods do not share a border. Finally, saying that Post Street is the northern border, but that it can range as far north as Geary Street makes no sense as Geary is south of Post. Ergative rlt 04:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Precisely.  The borders of the Tenderloin are fixed at the jurisdiction of the Tenderloin Taskforce of the SF Police Department.  The northern border of their beat is O'Farrell Street, and the southern border of SFPD's Northern Division is at Geary.  Therefore, the northern boundary of the Tenderloin is at O'Farrell. Bricology (talk) 19:18, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Borders 

message: , PETA wants its name changed to the "tempeh district" or similar vegan term. Should this be added?(mercurywoodrose)75.61.138.42 (talk) 01:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be appropriate to list any proposed name changes, if they've received media attention.  Others would include "the Ten", "the 'Loin", "the TL", etc.  Some of these have been re-branding attempts on the part of local groups, others are slang, but if they meet WP:N and WP:RS, I think they should be included. Bricology (talk) 19:23, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed name change for district

message: One aspect of the name that has been neglected in the article is the timeline of its use.  There are really two separate issues here: the geographic area and the various names for it that have been used over the past 165 years, of which "Tenderloin" is just one (and a fairly recent one at that).  As it is now, the article conflates these two separate topics.  The neighborhood now known as SF's Tenderloin was not called such before the 1906 Earthquake and Fire.  I've looked at dozens of pre-Quake maps and most of them refer to the area as "Downtown"; none of them use the term "Tenderloin".  Indeed, before the 'Quake, the neighborhood was quite affluent.  For example, I've seen photographs of large, detached single-family houses on O'Farrell at Leavenworth as would've befitted upper-middle-class families.  And private clubs like the Bohemian Club, The Family (club), the Olympic Club and countless others were operating within a few blocks of the area; something that they would not have done had the neighborhood been considered "bad" at the time (pre-1906).  After burning down, the area was largely rebuilt with nice hotels, concert halls and theaters, and middle-class apartment blocks for single men who worked in the Financial District.  The peak in rebuilding occurred in the 1920s during which the neighborhood continued to be referred to as "Downtown" and it wasn't really until the 1950s that anyone locally referred to the area as the "Tenderloin".  So really, when the article speaks of SF's "Tenderloin", it's referring to a fairly recent nickname rather than a long-time or official name.  I'd welcome any additional information on the timeline of the use of the name to flesh this out before adding it to the article. Bricology (talk) 07:50, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline for use of the name 

message: This Wikipedia page is outdated to put it mildly.  There have been many changes to the Tenderloin.  That strip club--Chez Paree--has been closed now for maybe 10 years, replaced with an upscale bar.  Boeddeker Park has never been a haven for drug dealers or addicts.  It has had staff on site to ensure that that does not happen.  Boeddeker Park has been the playground for several of the local grammar schools in the area and park staff have been diligent in protecting the park from criminal activity for obvious reasons.  The park has just recently re-opened--Dec. 10, 2014, after extensive renovation.  The old building was torn down and replaced with one where park supervisors have complete visual access to the entire park.  Again, for the benefit of the children.  St Anthony Soup Kitchen and Senior Housing complex has also recently opened.  The Channel 7 building--vacant for so many years has been refurbished into private apartment units.  The downtown YMCA building has been remodeled for subsidized SRO housing.  The description given of the Tenderloin as dangerous does not tell the complete story; there has been a police sub-station located on the corner of Jones and Eddy street for more than 10 years now, and that has had a positive impact on the safety of the community.  I don't know who is in charge of maintaining this page--but some people have to take the bug out of their butt and get to work with a refurbished article.  StevenTorrey (talk) 21:56, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tenderloin has evolved... 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Really??? It's been there for months, so is it real?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.195.10 (talk) 17:36, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Human Feces? 

message: This appeared in a news story on February 17, 2021
https://news.yahoo.com/elderly-asian-man-pushed-hip-163012166.html
Ryan General Wed, February 17, 2021, 10:30 AM
A suspect has been arrested in connection with an assault on an elderly man
in the Tian Delong (Tenderloin) District in downtown San Francisco on Sunday night.
Google searches are pretty sparse for "Tian Delong". Is this a local pronunciation among an ethnic group in the area? Group29 (talk) 01:18, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternate name "Tian Delong"

message: I need to get ahlod of this PD.  I will look for the phone #.  I believe my son had a labotomy in the Tenderloin dist in 1998.  My mothers husband, Hans Sellhorn owned a hotel in the Tenderloin until 2006 198.102.103.18 (talk) 18:58, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Human trafficking