Talk:Tambov Rebellion

message: This article should be merged with Antonovschina - it's a different name fr the same event. Volland 18:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tambov rebellion is the common name in English.Ultramarine 10:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Should be Kept as is, Tambov Rebellion is the most common usage in English and changing it would leave  the information harder to find —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.105.21.213 (talk) 15:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Could be merged as Tambov rebellion (most common name in English) and redirect from Antonovschina. This source  claims that Antonov actually was not main leader: "Бывший эсер, начальник уездной милиции города Кирсанова Тамбовской губернии А.С. Антонов никогда не стоял во главе восстания, хотя и был в нем весьма заметной фигурой, - занимал пост начальника главного оперативного штаба 2-й повстанческой армии. Подлинным же руководителем восстания, как убедительно показал автор, был тамбовский крестьянин, участник I мировой войны, полный Георгиевский кавалер, поручик П. М. Токмаков."Biophys 03:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: So, the current way of reperesentation is wrong and should be changed: 
"Alexander Antonov, a radical member of the Left Socialist Revolutionary party, had sided with the Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution in 1917, but turned on them after the Bolshevik's new farming policies came into place in 1918.
By November 1920, he had an army of around 8,000 men, most of them mounted. He used this army to mount raids against Collective farms and railway junctions. He did manage to clear the Tambov region of the Bolsheviks authorities.
In January 1921, Antonov resorted to conscription in order to increase his army. He managed to form ..." 
He was only one of the leaders at best.Biophys 02:30, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge request with [[Antonovschina]] 

message: Many statements now are not supported by any sources. Please provide the sources. Otherwise, I will have to delete unsourced information that contradicts scholarly reliable secondary sources, such as books by Robert Conquest and "Black Book".Biophys 02:22, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So, I left only statements that are consitent with sources currently cited in this article. Please do not insert new unsourced statments and provide proper refrences.Biophys 16:47, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources again

message: I would like to note that User:Vlad fedorov just deleted referenced and appropriate text from this article together with references. He did this without any explanations or preliminary discussion at this talk page. Instead he inserted completly unreferenced text.Biophys 03:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The text deleted by Ultramarine was supported by ZERO references (so he deleted completely unreferenced text, which is good), unlike referenced text deleted by Vlad. Moreover, it repeats many statements already made in the remaining part of article. This happened because Vlad simply copied and pasted this (now deleted) segment of text from another poor quality WP article. This is not the way to improve the articles. So, the changes by Ultramarine are correct, but more work is needed. Biophys 15:36, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion of referenced text

message: Начальнику артиллерии войск Тамбовской губернии
Тов. Косинову
РАПОРТ[41]
20 августа 1921 года.
Дивизион Заволжских артиллерийских курсов при операции в районе озера Рамза израсходовал 130 шрапнельных, 69 фугасных и 79 химических снарядов.
Начальник отдела Заволжского дивизиона
артиллерийских курсов Михайлов
-----
Начальнику артиллерии группы
войск Тамбовской губернии
23 августа 1921 года. с. Инжавино
ДОНЕСЕНИЕ[42]
Августа 22 числа 1921 года артиллерийская бригада Заволжского В.О. в бою с бандитами израсходовала 160 шрапнельных, 75 фугасных и 85 химических снарядов.
Начальник артиллерийской бригады (подпись нрзб)
-----------------------
Начальнику 6-го боеучастка тов. Павлову
23 августа 1921 г. с. Инжавино
ДОНЕСЕНИЕ[43]
По получении мною боевого задания дивизион в 8.00 22 августа с.г. выступил из села Инжавино в село Карай-Салтыково, из которого, после большого привала и отдыха в 14.00 по направлению села Кипец. Заняв там позицию, в 16.00 открыл огонь по острову на озере в 1,5 версты северо-западнее села Кипец. Дивизионом выпущено по острову 65 шрапнельных снарядов, 49 фугасных и 50 химических. После выполнения своей задачи дивизион в 20.00 снялся с позиции и возвратился ночью в село Инжавино
.
Командир Белгородских артиллерийских курсов Нечаев
-----------------
They report how many chemical munitions were used in each incident. It follows from these comminicatons that weapons were used at least during a period from July 1 to August 23.  Biophys 22:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your last group does show actual use in mid-August; the rest is Tukachevsky looking for possible chemical teams and trying to arrange logistics. Thank you; that is news.  I will see what BBC' says exactly, and do an edit as soon as I can. Is there evidence from the fall, or is continuation that late speculation? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can only cite what the source said. Author does not provide texts of all original documents that he used in the book. It would be OR to claim here anything different from end of June to "apparently" Fall. This is an extremely well-documented book, certainly a more detailed source on the subject of specific peasant uprisings than "Black book". It also refers to Melgunov and other published materials.Biophys 22:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it would be irresponsible not to attribute that conclusion to Sennikov; and it would be dishonest not to describe what BBC says - and fails to say. it is PoV to omit the order to Tukachevsky to stop.  Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I just checked this: BBC and Sennikov accounts are completely consistent. BBC say that Order 171 was annuled on July 19, but this order has nothing to do with chemical weapons, as clear from its text provided by BBC.Biophys 01:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Communications about use of chemical weapons

message: Just in case, I can copy a description of a gas attack (Russian):
Biophys 01:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be helpful to the reader to have the pages (or sections) of these extracts. Also, what's the date of this battle? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Description of a gas attack

message: I accidentally got logged out between edits.radek (talk) 16:27, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  ip is me 

message: Who came up with this definition? Since when the rebellion in Tambov is classified as anarchism? It is clearly states in the first paragraph that it was an opposition to the Soviet domestic policies. Why is it anarchism? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 19:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The flag of the rebellion was a red banner, not the black and green rag. Who posted that fact that rebels used some anarchists symbols? Gassing of own people was normal for the Red Army and the Soviet Government, there is no need to justify it by labeling others with weird names. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 19:41, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tambov rebellion -- anarchism??? 

message: In the article it says.
"This caused the peasants to reduce their grain production since they knew that anything they did not consume themselves would be immediately confiscated. Filling the state quotas meant death for many by starvation."
But how does that make any sense at all? I find it lacking severely as a narrative. What farmer goes out and thinks, "You know, the state has a tax on my grain production. So you know what I'll do? Produce less grain! That way when the state comes to procure some of my grain for the quota I'll have even less to eat!" 
In the earlier sentence it says that the procurement took excess food they didn't eat themselves and then in the later sentence it directly contradicts this saying that quotas took what they needed. So then not fulfilling quotas helps how? 
50.135.124.85 (talk) 23:25, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logic behind this. 

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thread_title:  External links modified