Talk:Dehydroepiandrosterone

message: can someone who is an expert on DHEA add a section on schizophrenia and DHEA?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sp0 (talk • contribs) 12:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  schizophrenia 

message: Under the "Precautions" section, I noticed this:
"Since DHEA is very aromatizable, and almost all estrogen in men and women is derived from it, DHEA can have similar but even worse estrogenc effects of anabolic steroids"
I have never heard this about DHEA. Can this be backed up? Based on this pic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Steroidogenesis.gif
We can see what DHEA breaks down into, but we do not see which pathways are used the most. I have NEVER heard of someone experiencing "similar but even worse estrogenc effects of anabolic steroids" from DHEA. That statement seems preposterous. Steroids can cause your body to shut down its production of testosterone. DHEA has been shown not to do this. In fact, here's a study showing that supplementing with DHEA does not effect testosterone or estrogen levels:
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/6/2274
PAT or JK 18:29, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Precautions 

message: This hormone may be implicated in fetal control of the onset of labour - any thoughts??
Yes I find it surprising it's not mentioned... - I don't feel qualified enough/have time to explain it however it is referenced in Essential Reproduction (Johnson, ) 131.111.8.104 (talk) 19:23, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  onset of labour 

message: when i was in my early 20's i used to buy this stuff for like a dollar a bottle at a store called 'family dollar'. it was sold as a vitamin supplement in the store and the container said something along the lines of it giving you energy. far as i can tell i don't have any long term health effects from it. i took about 1 tablet a day sometimes more if i needed more energy, i don't remember the dosage per pill. it did actually give me energy from what i remember but i think it might have caused other things like inability to focus. hard to say i was a raver then and did drugs on occassion. they eventually took it off the shelf of family dollar. now that i find all this stuff out about it, it makes me wish i was working out back then to really get the benefits lol. actually if i had known all this stuff about it i probably wouldn't have taken it.
The FDA does not regulate supplements. This is because the food supplement industry lobbied hard and defeated them, resulting in a plethora of unscrupulous manufacturers and questionable products on the shelves. There is no guarantee that you were even taking DHEA. Drugs and vitamins are taken at such small doses that most of any given pill is filler: cornstarch. Buyer beware! If you are convinced that a product is worth your hard earned dollar, it is also worth purchasing from a reputable manufacturer. I don't think I'd trust a dollar store for DHEA tablets. Incidentally, good researchers don't take their subjects for granted. Good scientists (bad ones, who unfortunatley abound, do not) report the brand name of the drugs they are testing, how they obtained it, the dosages and they double check by sending the stuff to a chemistry-analysis lab to test for purity and strength.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.150.245.168 (talk) 19:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  supplement? 

message: Dehydroepiandrosterone or DHEA is the much more commonly used term ( medical lit. and google test). Prasterone is the term used in the ATC code but has limited usage. Articles should be merged.Ekem 17:01, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger with Prasterone

message: :: Scientifically speaking, the term "more advanced" is not applicable. A metabolite is just a molecule with a slightly different structure. Furthermore, the exact effects of such hormones is still not understood in detail. If it is shown that ingestion of a certain hormone provokes the production of another hormone, an entire cascade, including a variety of feedback mechanisms is set in motion. No exact number can, in such a case, be assigned to the levels of hormones, which is potentially dangerous. Any use of these compounds, which should, in all objectivity, be judged safe by the FDA, should be undertaken only under close supervision of an expert. 77.251.51.253 (talk) 20:52, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 7-Keto DHEA is a recently identified natural metabolite of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) which is both more effective and safer than DHEA because it does not convert itself into testosterone or estrogens in the body. In one word, 7-Keto DHEA possesses all the advantages of DHEA and - it is claimed - with none of the disadvantages. 
Please note I have no interest in or connection with selling DHEA.
Now it seems to me that readers should want to know about this more advanced form of DHEA. 
For me it seems that this refined product forms part of the DHEA information. It is possible to add a separate entry but I would be against this.
That one external link provided the following information (refereces provided below):
• 7-Keto DHEA is structurally practically identical to DHEA, from which it is derived by an enzymatic conversion process taking place in the body. Professor Henry A. Lardy and his team have researched 7-Keto DHEA for ten years at the Institute of Research on Enzymes at the University of Wisconsin. Based on this research, Professor Lardy has obtained 9 patents for the uses of 7-Keto DHEA, for reinforcing and modulating the immune system, contributing to the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and favoring weight loss.
• The main worry of certain DHEA disparagers is that it will partly convert itself into sex hormones such as testosterone and estrogens. This seems to be an obvious advantage for the healthy, looking to combat age-associated hormonal decline. Unfortunately, this means advising all those with a personal or a family history of hormonal-dependent cancer risk (prostate, breast, ovarian) against taking DHEA. This rules out the important part of the elderly, who would gain the most, from the benefit of supplementation. And some women badly support the side effects due to an increase of androgens which can be induced by DHEA (acne, facial hair). For these, 7-Keto DHEA is the ideal solution. Doses as high as 500 mg/kg have been administered to primates with no adverse effect being observed. This is equivalent to more than 100 times the recommended dose for a human being. A human toxicity study confirmed that in doses of 200 mg/day for 28 days, 7-Keto DHEA did not negatively affect biological blood and urine tests. 
• Lardy has demonstrated that 7-Keto DHEA is around 2.5 times more powerful, milligramme for milligramme, than DHEA, and this with no side effects. In fact, 7-Keto DHEA, metabolized in the body from DHEA, may be responsible for most of the beneficial effects attributed to DHEA. 7-Keto DHEA is more effective than DHEA for improving memory, inducing thermogenesis and reinforcing or modulating the immune system.
• 7-Keto DHEA is without doubt the most effective supplement available for helping to lose weight durably and rapidly. Lardy's work demonstrates that taking 7-Keto DHEA significantly increases the liver production of thermogenetic enzymes as well as the production of the thyroid hormone T3 (without influencing either TSH or T4, and so with no negative impact on thyroid function) with, as a consequence, a sure but certain rise in basal metabolism. One double blind study was carried out on subjects taking 100 mg of 7-Keto DHEA twice a day for 8 weeks. During this study, the subjects absorbed 1,800 calories per day and exercised (moderately) 3 times 60 minutes per week. The supplemented subjects lost three kilos, whereas the controlled ones lost only one. At this dose, and during this length of time, 7-Keto DHEA caused no side effects. All those preoccupied with weight control should consider supplementation in 7-Keto DHEA. 
• All those taking DHEA can take 7-Keto DHEA if they are willing to pay a little more for a more effective and safer supplement. Those who cannot take DHEA because of the risk of hormonal-dependent cancer can take 7-Keto DHEA. With men who excessively aromatize testosterone, taking DHEA can lead to a simultaneous and undesirable increase in estradiol, a typically feminine estrogen. Replacing DHEA with 7-Keto DHEA will avoid this. Those wishing to effectively control their weight over a long period of time should make 7-Keto DHEA one of their basic supplements. Where DHEA does not succeed, or not succeed enough, 7-Keto DHEA, an active and improved form, should be tried. 
• Twenty-five to 50 mg per day is sufficient supplementation for the healthy, or in the case of an anti-aging programme. If you take 50 mg per day, it is preferable to divide the dose between two meals. Higher doses can be advised for limited periods. 
And the following references:
•	Weeks C., Hardy H., Henwood S. Preclinical toxicology evaluation of 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone (7-Keto DHEA), FASEB J 1998;12:A4428. 
•	Henwood S. M., Weeks C. E., Lardy H. An escalating dose oral gavage study of 3 beta-acetoxyandrost-5-ene, 17 dione (7-ox-DHEA acetate) in Rhesus monkeys. Biochem. Biophys. Res. Commun, 1999;254:120-3. 
•	Davidson M. H., Weeks C. E., Lardy H., et al. Safety and endocrine effects of 3-acetyl-7-oxo DHEA (7-Keto DHEA) FASEB J 1998;12:A4429. 
•	Colker et al., Double blind study evaluating the effect of exercise plus 3-acetyl-7-oxo dehydroepiandrosterone on body composition and the endocrine system in overweight adults. J. Exercise Physiology online, 1999;341:122-8. 
•	Shi J., Lardy H. 3beta-hydroxyandrost-5-ene-7, 17 dione (7-Keto DHEA) improves memory in mice. FASEB J 1998;12:A4427. 
•	Shi J., Schulze S., Lardy H. The effect of 7-oxo-DHEA acetate on memory in young and old C5577BL/6 mice. 2000;65(3):124-9. 
•	Davidson M., Lardy H., et al. Safety and pharmacokinetic study with escalating doses of 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone in healthy male volunteers. Clin Invest Med. Vol23, n° 5, Oct 2000. 
Nick Taylor1 14:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

text: 1)"Without doubt" the most effective supplement available for helping to lose weight?  Really?  There is no doubt in anyone's mind?  2) "7-Keto DHEA is around 2.5 times more powerful, milligramme for milligramme, than DHEA."  2.5 times more powerful in what way?  Enzymes and their metabolytes do a lot of different things.  Is it 2.5 times more powerful in all of its good and bad effects?  3) "... reinforcing or modulating the immune system". Well, which is it, reinforcing or modulating?  And what does "modulating" the immune system actually mean? 174.28.99.242 (talk) 02:52, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  DHEA 

message: I would like to point out that this debate over the *efficacy* of the 7-keto metabolite or the quality of available research is not an excuse for removing any mention of it wholesale from this article.  The result is that someone coming to wikipedia and doing a search on the term "7-keto" comes up with no results.  I know that I was at one time able to find either the DHEA article or a separate 7-keto article by performing a simple search on this term.  
7-keto is not the product of someone's imagination; it is a specific metabolite of DHEA and whether anyone agrees that it is useful or should be consumed or has verified usage claims, the fact remains that it is being marketed as a product and is being taken by a lot of people.  That fact, with or without caveats, should be recognized in this article so that someone searching here can at least find out what 7-keto is.  If they end up having to go elsewhere to actually learn more about it, so be it.  That's the point of Wikipedia.  Because Wikipedia is not just for the academic community, its articles should not be designed only for a select few. 
I am not a medical professional or chemist and do not intend to add a comment about 7-keto myself, but am instead asking those of you who presume stewardship of this topic to remedy the situation.  I suggest to you that not mentioning 7-keto at all in the main article does not adhere to the  neutrality principle and lowers the quality of the article itself.
Spudchick 15:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia is a global reference, not just a scientific reference.

message: The section on "Increasing endogenous DHEA production" begins, "Regular exercise is known to the body."  Well, it's known to some bodies but not others.  :)  I'm guessing that the sentence is supposed to read, "Regular excercise is known to increase DHEA production in the body."  I can't readily access the cited references, though, and so can't confirm that.  Would someone knowledgeable please clarify? JamesMLane t c 20:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Garbled sentence re exercise 

message: Should these be better qualified as sterols?
--- no  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.181.51 (talk) 19:35, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  DHEA/DHEAS 

message: I've edited some of the recent additions, which had presented preclinical or in vitro data in a somewhat more definitive form than actually reported. I've also removed this reference: Perkins SN, Hursting SD, Kim K, Poetschke K, Heather L, Richie ER. Mechanisms underlying the anti-lymphoma activity of dehydroepiandrosterone: studies in murine thymocytes and murine T-cell hybridoma cells. Cancer Epidemiology Biomarkers & Prevention. 2002; 11(10):1233s. as I cannot find it on MEDLINE. It seems to be a supplement, so perhaps it was an abstract presented at a meeting which was either never published or was published under a different title? In any case, it's somewhat misleading to say that the NCI found that DHEA reduced the risk of breast cancer. The reference was to an in vitro (not clinical) study, which I am unable to locate and verify. The available clinical data (which I've referenced in the article) indicates fairly strongly that higher levels of DHEA are in fact associated with an increased risk of breast cancer, presumably through pro-estrogenic effects. MastCell Talk 17:29, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: I recently read this "too good to be true" report.  Can anyone substantiate this claim??
"Just months ago, scientists at Washington University School of Medicine completed their double-blind, placebo-controlled study, and it works! The aging, overweight "couch potatoes" who took dehydroepiandrosterone kept right on eating just like before. Yet within a matter of months bulging waistlines abruptly shrunk.  And they weren't just sucking in their guts. When researchers peered inside their bellies with MRI scans, masses of fat had vanished. The average patient lost 13 square centimeters of belly fat under the skin, plus another 13 square centimeters of deeper, even deadlier visceral fat, for a total of 26 square centimeters."Catart 17:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The short answer is that it's too good to be true and someone's making outlandish claims in an effort to sell you something. The longer answer is that if you're really curious, the best idea is to find the actual study that this advertisement is referencing. MastCell Talk 19:24, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Belly fat (or any three-dimensional substance) is not appropriately meaured in square centimeters.  Perhaps cubuc centimeters, but if that's the case, why not say it correctly?  And 13 cubic centimeters of belly fat is not much. 174.28.99.242 (talk) 02:46, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Belly Fat Burner?? 

message: Can we get a table that summarizes a representative sample of reference ranges for men and women?  WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference ranges

message: It needs to be understood that it all depends on purity. 99+% pure DHEA (nearly impossible to find) may very well produce the effects that are advertised. This section needs to be changed to display that. Most DHEA supplements are bought in bulk from suppliers in China and just put in capsules / pills and are very impure. Purity affects the effectiveness of all substances, DHEA is no exception. It is true, supplement companies make insane claims that don't apply to their particular impure DHEA product.
The truth should be told about how most every DHEA supplement is impure, therefore the listless claims companies associate with their DHEA product may not really apply to that DHEA product. But make no mistake, 99+% pure DHEA CAN produce the advertised claims. The claims are not baseless, they are based on clinical trials, but clinical trials for a different DHEA then what the company is selling. This section needs to be updated to more accurately explain the information already contained in it. If no one is willing, I will update it later.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.99.183.145 (talk) 08:47, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How are you supposed to get the effects from 99% purity DHEA but not 90% DHEA? It doesn't make sense chemically unless the impurity is an active compound blocking the effects of DHEA. DHEA is a neurosteroid which elevates estrogen in men, not a miracle steroid supplement.  93.161.107.239 (talk) 21:39, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed Effects changes

message: I strongly object to the note in the "Adverse effects" heading that DHEA can cause high blood pressure.  There are MANY studies showing that it LOWERS blood pressure.  I have 3 genes that cause extremely high blood pressure and I read every study that the AHA put out and tried each and every thing.  Nothing lowered it enough to be safe (or even noticeably).  I knew it had to do with hormones because at first I only had high blood pressure during PMS.  I pursued bioidentical hormone replacement but the doctor was afraid to give me enough estrogen to do the trick so I resorted to DHEA and voila - PERFECT AND STABLE BLOOD PRESSURE!  I raise my DHEA levels above the high lab range and it takes care of both anxiety and hypertension.  I have extensive hormone labs run and my body makes good (non-cancer) hormones out of it so my doctors are happy.  It caused ance for only the 1st 3 days.  And here are MANY studies (these came out AFTER I discovered it myself):
http://www.pnas.org/content/100/16/9488.short
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) prevents and reverses chronic hypoxic pulmonary hypertension 
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/263/2/E210.short
Dehydroepiandrosterone prevents dexamethasone-induced hypertension in rats
http://circres.ahajournals.org/content/36/6/2.short
Evidence for a new mineralocorticoid in patients with low-renin essential hypertension
“A specific assay for 16beta-OH-DHEA was developed, and its level in the urine was found to be elevated in patients with low-renin essential hypertension. [This was in adrenalectomized rats, rats therefore with LOW DHEA].
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/263/2/E210.short
Dehydroepiandrosterone prevents dexamethasone-induced hypertension in rats
http://www.ersj.org.uk/content/21/5/862.short
Dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate reduces chronic hypoxic pulmonary hypertension in rats
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076007002737
DHEA decreases HIF-1alpha accumulation under hypoxia in human pulmonary artery cells: potential role in the treatment of pulmonary arterial hypertension
http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/content/74/3/377.short
Dehydroepiandrosterone upregulates soluble guanylate cyclase and inhibits hypoxic pulmonary hypertension
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003426611002101
DHEA Improves Pulmonary Hypertension in COPD
http://www.nature.com/hr/journal/v31/n1/abs/hr2008311a.html
Association of Plasma Dehydroepiandrosterone-Sulfate Levels with Endothelial Function in Postmenopausal Women with Coronary Risk Factors
To the guy below - I do not believe there are any detrimental effects of high DHEA.  You should be taking B vitamins for rage problems (I believe B2).  Check with www.lef.org about DHEA -- they are the experts.
Madanthony113 (talk) 00:44, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a bit of a can of worms, because you're talking about comparing the possible effects of high endogenous levels of DHEA with the possible effects of supplementation. High endogenous levels might or might not point to an underlying cause that would likely not be present in the case of supplementation--for example, abnormally low levels of some of the enzymes needed to process DHEA in the body. Supplementation, on the other hand, could introduce an entirely different picture WRT possible positive benefits OR negative effects. I haven't read all of the sources on DHEA supplementation, but have not seen the effects you're talking about mentioned in any study so far. Will keep my eyes open. Leha Carpenter (talk) 18:50, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Just went and looked at the cited SLE study under FDA. Over two years of women with SLE taking 200mg/day of DHEA, the only significant side effects were acne (about 15% over control), and hirsutism (about 12% over control). Leha Carpenter (talk) 19:10, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm more concerned with the effects and causes of high endogenous levels of DHEA.  Whether or not it is causing my symptoms could only be determined if my doctor treats me for it, assuming there is a treatment.  He made it sound like there was, since he strongly opposed lowering my DHEA level as it would also lower my testosterone level, but he might have just told me that as opposed to telling me there is no treatment and having me lose hope.  It's clear that more research needs to be done--I'd love to participate, but I'm just an unemployed 23-year-old with a computer--without a research team my experiences with DHEA will be worthless.  If anyone knows of any groups doing research on DHEA, I'd love to get in contact with them. Darktangent (talk) 02:55, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Side Effects 

message: A separate article about 7-Keto must be created as ap and link to it provided on DHEA with one paragraph stating it's difference from DHEA.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.215.65.67 (talk) 09:35, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  7-Keto 

message: Can we remove natural from this sentence? Saying "endogenous natural steroid hormone" is both redundant and poor English.
Catleeu1 (talk) 14:26, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  ...is a 19-carbon endogenous natural steroid hormone. 

message: Cats out of the bag fellahs.  DR. OZ is promoting 7-Keto DHEA as effective and safe at 100mg twice aday, and consulting a physician.98.229.58.116 (talk) 01:02, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if Dr. Oz said so, then I suppose there's no need to bother with the medical literature, reliable secondary sources, expert scientific bodies, or anything else, really. MastCell Talk 03:57, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  DR. OZ Show 

message: What does "grandfathered in" mean?! I suspect, though I could be wrong, that few people know what this phrase means, and think it should be replaced.
109.153.85.226 (talk) 14:42, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's when a new law is created, things that already exist are given a pass but any new inventions/discoveries must comply with it. It's a very common, well-known legal term.--Rpm2004 (talk) 06:42, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does "grandfathered in" mean? 

message: I am EXTREMELY concerned with the lack of side effects listed here. The mayo clinic has side effects listed, as well as the majority of other respected medical web sites and yet it is inconspicuously missing here. The safety portion here is vague and in some cases could be harmful in fact that it is misleading (eg, people with liver issues, Cushings disease, ovarian cancer, etc.). There are studies available that show the side effects, but information from respected medical websites should suffice as well. Not listing side effects (and not fully listing safety concerns) can be downright dangerous and this article reads more as a medically researched advertisement or defense of the use of DHEA than an unbiased article. 
I will add a section regarding a study of pros and cons to the infertility section as this is what I have been personally researching, as I feel it is extremely important that women researching this information know that in some cases it could hurt their fertility (if they already have high levels of certain hormones). --24.98.77.244 (talk) 16:16, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Safety 

message: DHEA plays a protective role in the development of atherosclerosis and coronary artery disease (Gordon 1988; Eich 1993), especially among men. Several mechanisms are involved: inhibition of G6PD (which can modify the lipid spectrum), suppression of platelet aggregation, and reduced cell proliferation (Porsova-Dutoit 2000). Men with lower DHEA-S are more likely to have atherosclerosis (Herrington 1990) and calcified deposits in the abdominal aorta (Hak 2002).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.54.217.34 (talk) 13:29, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cardiovascular disease 

message: DHEA comes in plenty of different forms to appeal to the unique preferences of its users. There is DHEA cream, powder, liquid, tablet, and capsules each with their respective variations. To create DHEA cream, which usually contains additives like vitamins, there are several processes which it has to go through before it can be sold. Some processes and additives to certain products can effect the effectiveness of the active ingredients. DHEA cream/lotion go through a process by which ingredients must undergo a process with additives. Fortunately, the process by which DHEA is made into a lotion is very limited to a couple household ingredients. 
--— Preceding unsigned comment added by  BestDHEA22 (talk • contribs) 06:38, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: refs are not acceptable and spammy. Jytdog (talk) 19:57, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  DHEA supplements and their forms 

message: At what time of day should 25mg or 50mg tablet or capsules taken?
Are "DHEA MicroLingual Instant Dissolve Tablets" a scam? Is there significant absorption in mouth or stomach before small intestine?
ee1518 (talk) 16:02, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  If one takes 25mg or 50mg DHEA tablet a day, does body lower DHEA production? 

message: Is this claim true?
https://www.docwirenews.com/abstracts/journal-abstracts/alert-to-us-physicians-dhea-widely-used-as-an-otc-androgen-supplement-may-exacerbate-covid-19/
Endocr Relat Cancer. 2020 Dec 1:ERC-20-0439. doi: 10.1530/ERC-20-0439. Online ahead of print.
The United States stands alone among developed nations in permitting one androgen, oral dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), to be freely available OTC and online as a “dietary supplement.”
So is DHEA available as supplement or medicine in other developed or developing countries?
--ee1518 (talk) 21:32, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  USA stands alone among developed nations in permitting one androgen, oral dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), to be freely available OTC?