Talk:Hinduism/Archive 13

message: The vote:
Votes in favor of HeBhagawan's version:
#I don't really know anything about it, but he requested I vote and I think his wording looks good. - Mike | Talk 23:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aupmanyavji, please see WP:CIV and WP:NPA. Many editors have had disagreements with HeBhagawan but have respectfully discussed their problems with each other and he has cooperated well (Ask Raj2004 and Priyanath). There is no reason to get hostile. See User_talk:Priyanath/archive1#God_as_Divine_Accountant for an example of how HeBhagawan has been civil. GizzaChat © 06:05, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

text: That seems to be the best thing to do. When are we going to have the vote? Aupmanyav 01:55, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Instead of competing for an acceptable phrasing, let us please instead create a list of ideas that we can all agree on should be conveyed. I think this will make life much more easier, and less side-choosing, hard feelings, etc. ॐ नमःशिवाय Śaiva Sujīt सुजीत ॐ 08:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

message: Hello it is me Arjun again and I have a project that I would like to share. In my opinion this article is getting to long and is growing by the day. I am sure others feel this way. Some browsers have a very difficult time loading the page. Here is the project: We would try to remove some text without hurting the good and referenced facts. We can decide if there is any part of the article that is not neccasary. This idea is open to disscussions, please vote below. Thanks!--Seadog 19:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree HeBhagawan, it would be a disaster if everybody started to take out parts they think should be taken out. That is why we will discuss any changes that we feel is necessary. Thank you.--Seadog ♪ 01:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Vote 

message: Namaskar, I would like to see this section earlier in the article. I would like it to be somewhere in the top 5. Where do you all think it is best suited?
Namaḥṣivaya, ॐ Śaiva Sujīţ ॐ 02:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schools of Hindu Philosophy section 

message: Namaskar. I apologize for this off-topic question. Has anyone seen the Kashmiri Wikipedia? Why do they use that arabic script instead of sharada? Also, and this is slightly more on topic, I just noticed the article on the English Wikipedia on Aum... in their devanagari they use O- and not the dipthong Au- is that correct?
ॐ नमःशिवय Śaiva Sujīţ ॐ सुजीट 15:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To answer your question on Kashmiri language, the truth is that the majority of Kashmiris, in both the Pakistan controlled and Indian controlled, and probably even in the Chinese controlled area are Muslims. Obviously Muslims prefer writing in a Arabic script instead of an Indian script, which means that now most "Kashmiris" woud prefer writing with Sharada script. On your Aum question, the famous symbol is derived from ओम (Om) and is also pronounced like that by modern Indians. But I think in Sanskrit it was written as औम because that is how it is supposed to be pronounced a-u-m. ॐ नमःशिवय GizzaChat © 07:18, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Off-topic 

message: Hinduism advocate that one must follow one's birth religion as the same is like breast feed, easy to digest (practice).  It's improper  to say that Hinduism claim that to be a Hindu one must be born Hindu.  In other words, Hinduism does not advocate conversion to Hinduism.  Thre is no bar to people voluntarily Hindu way of life.  Lord Krishna's message of Geeta is a message to all human beings and applicable to all humans.  No where in Geeta, Lord Krishna has said that the priniciples there in, if followed will give the resultant benefits, only to Hindus. swadhyayee 01:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conversion to Hinduism 

message: The editors here should be knowing that the offerings, mostly food or eatables prior to having been offered to The God is known as "Naivedhya".  Once offered and taken back for distribution, it's called "Prasad".  The meaning of "Prasad" is "Pratisad" (Something like reaction of God).  There are plenty of people who do not know the term "Naivedhya" and often refer to "Naivedhya" as "Prasad" to the displeasure of knowledgables around.  This one line inclusion has been removed by the very knowledgable boss with edit summery that "deleted some words that seem non-essential".  I had placed this thing on talk page and there was no objection to this inclusion.  I feel it is advantageous to have it included.  May I expects editors to give their opinions? swadhyayee 01:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a very interesting piece of information you cite, which I did not know earlier. I am not sure if that nuance belongs on the main article; however I think it would be great if we could begin a wikipedia page which talks about terminology used in Hinduism and where such little known facts/terms are highlighted. Does anyone know if such a page exists, and if it is ok to have such a glossary hosted on Wikipedia?  swadhyayee, perhaps you with your general knowledge about Hinduism should create such a page ! I'll be happy to contribute with editorial help. What do others think ? Abecedare 04:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: There is a page called Glossary of terms in Hinduism where Sanskrit/Hindu words can be added. GizzaChat © 09:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: In general I won't object. Here I won't object if you can find places where to remove information. The page as observed by many others here is very big. GizzaChat © 10:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Pre-offered food is called 'bhoga' where I come from. The direct translation of bhoga is 'enjoyment', and in this connection it means 'for the Lord's enjoyment'. I imagine there are many variations across the spectrum of Vedic based traditions. Ys, GourangaUK 14:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I have added the terms Prasad and Naivedhya to the Glossary. Can others take a look at it to check my spellings of the terms, and possibly refine the definitions ? Also I saw that there is a a recent wikipedia page created for Naivedhya. It is only a stub and should be expanded if it is to be saved from deletion. Abecedare 18:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: swadhyayee : I rechecked the spelling of Naivedhya and confirmed that it uses "dh" and not "gh" (I had to zoom in to make sure!). Thanks for pointing out that error possibility. Feel free to reword the definition on the glossary page if you think it will improve the clarity. Also if you have any other word suggestions for the page, I can help  in spelling them - just leave a message at Talk:Glossary_of_terms_in_Hinduism or on my talk page if you prefer. Abecedare 01:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naivedhya. 

message: Wel-come to Wikipedia. In fact, I liked your above edit to Hinduism a lot. You have some novel idea to give. Unfortunately, your edits are reverted by someone. You are absolutely right in your edit. Hindus have attached festivals to their beliefs & way of life for spiritual sublimation. Hindus are fond of festivals. It is said "Utsav Priya" in regional languages. "Utsav" means festivals and "Priya" means fond of. "Priya" usually means "dear" but here it's meaning is "fond of". Celebrating festivals by singing, dancing or throwing colours reduce substantial stress, bring each other close thus keep people healthy and contribute to the harmony of the society. This is just to give you a lead if you desire to contribute to Hinduism. My suggestion and request to you would be to select a good nick-name and register yourself to Wikipedia. You do not have to give personal details for registering with Wikipedia. You can construct your user page and introduce yourself without giving your personal details. You can provide your abilities and hobbies.
Hope to see you soon on Wikipedia registered users' community.
Best of luck. swadhyayee 00:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  hindus like to dance a lot in cermoney's that is part of there religon. 

message: ["Ashramas (stages of life)Traditionally, the life of a Hindu was divided into four Āshramas ("phases" or "stages"). They are
Brahmacharya (the stage of a student) 
Gṛihastha (the stage of a householder) 
Vānaprastha (retirement--literally "living out in the forest") 
Sanyāsa (life as a monk).[90] 
The first quarter of one's life, Brahmacharya ("meditation, or study of the Brahman") is spent in celibate, controlled, sober and pure contemplation under a Guru, building up the mind for the realization of truth. Grihastha is the householder's stage, in which one marries and satisfies kāma and artha within one's married and professional life (see section on ashrams). Among the moral obligations of a Hindu householder are the duties to support one's parents, children, guests, priests (Brahmins), and monks(sanyāsis). Vānaprastha is gradual detachment from the material world. This may involve giving over duties to one's children, spending more time in contemplation of the Divine, and making holy pilgrimages. Finally, in Sannyāsa, one renounces all worldly attachments, often envisioned as seclusion, to find the Divine through detachment from worldly life and peacefully shed the body for the next life (or for liberation).[90]
Note: the word āshrama (or āshram) is also used to refer to a building which is devoted to religious activities. Usually monks or other spiritual aspirants reside in an ashram, and spiritual seekers may visit the ashram to study the scriptures, meditate, or worship. This type of āshram may contain a monastery or convent (math), a temple, library, and/or other facilities for spiritual practice and religious education."].
I feel the language is vague.
1) "satisfies 'Kama' and 'Artha' in one's married and professional life".  How would a person not exposed to the term "Kama" understand the right connotation?
2) Grammatically here it implies that "Kama" is satisfied in professional life too and earth is satisfied in married life (???).  From sentence framing point of view, it is in-correct.  
3) Earth does not mean only earning, it means spending also.  It's strongly emphasized to use wealth in Hinduism.  The most significant is earn and spend through means consonant with Hindu religious dictates.  Consonant with Hindu religious dictates is something different from ethical.  Earnings through means limited by Varnashram dharma means consonant with Hindu religious dictates.  Earning through butchery or sale of living beings for butchery are in no way ethical earning in Hinduism.  The deviation from religious dictate do cause imbalance of social order.  When one not coming from caste of shoe-maker enter into trade of shoes for the money power is depriving shoe-makers of their ethical earning, which we see today.  Practically, all tailor, shoe-makers etc. communities are deprived of their rightful earning due to making of ready-made garments and shoes by huge factories.  This lead to make wealthy, wealthier and poor, poorer.  Earning through gambling means is not considered to be ethical in Hinduism.  Earlier generation, discouraged their offsprings to earn through stock-trade (trade of shares) which can throw someone give stress related diseasea and throw one on road overnight.  Today, the parents want their children to make money through stock-trade and be wealthier overnight without hard working.  Hinduism insist for regular work (Udhyam or Shram) involving physical activities and regularity.  Acquiring wealth without hard work, ethical and religious limits lead to un-desirables be it adverse effect on one's health or one's behaviour and social order.  The well explained visionary and praise worthy Hindu dictates in appropriated language should have a place in this article but Alas! whether our highly educated, native English speaking editors will have mind and intelligence to do so?
The earning through stock trade and commodity exchange shall render India of industries, particularly small and cottage industries providing ethical medium of earning to average less educated and less privileged Indian.  "Varnashram Vyavastha" protected the societies from such evil effects.  "Varnashram Vyavastha" prevented possibilities centralising of capital to few.  The "Varnashram Vyavastha" ought to be a significant contribution to the theory of economy which the modern thinkers fail to envisage or deliberately avoid to provide boon to capitalist minds.  The non-inclusion of these visionary Hindu dictates, help Non-Hindu economists to build their theories and state that Hinduism visionary dictates has it's roots in Non-Hindu theories like one claim we witnessed a day or two before about Vedas. 
Is providing of meaning of "Ashram" as bldg. here relevant?  It's more confusing.  Just adding "also" is not sufficient to remove confusion.  What's the point of adding confusion and trying to remove it by adding "also"?  swadhyayee 02:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: swadhyayee and others: Please see my edits to the section. I have tried to address points 1, 2 and "ashram meaning" that Swadhyayee raised. I have also removed wikilinks to common English words like sober, celibate, contemplate, householder etc as they are used in the standard sense in this section; and corrected some other links. Comments and revisions are welcome.  Abecedare 03:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sufficiently vague? 

message: Oh my God! The time and energy it takes to come to the top of talk page or article.  Whether some knowledgable can provide tool "Top" and "bottom" at the top and end of talk page to go back to respective zone with just a click of button.  The time and energy now taken to go to different zone of the page is awful.
I am just shocked to see that to edit a particular topic of talk page, the tool "edit" is missing and you have to endlessly go up to select "edit" tool and go to the bottom of the topic to edit or add the content/reply.
Would some knowledgable help to overcome this tiring difficulties?
swadhyayee 03:40, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you do not wish to use the scrollbar, just use control-home or control-end to move to the top or bottom of a page. To edit a specific section, click the "edit" link next to the title of the section. There is no need to get worked up over such simple issues. — Knowledge Seeker দ 04:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I will archive it to make it shorter...since it needs it anyway.__Seadog ♪ 04:03, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could something be done? 

message: An anonymous user today posted two links into the article which were reverted. I later checked these links and although was clearly a Pro-Iskcon site, the second was a very information general overview of Hinduism which, to me seemed a very good link to be included in this page. The link is below, please could people give sensible views as to its possible inclusion, or not. Regards, GourangaUK 15:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ISKCON are Hindu. The external link has a quite a good deal of info. I support inclusion.Bakaman Bakatalk 16:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I too support the inclusion, although perhaps the description can be shortened to something like, "An overview of Hindu traditions" (and I was the one who reverted the anon user at his third attempt) Abecedare 17:09, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks for all the input - overall, it looked pretty balanced and informative to me. I will leave another message on the users page also. Ys, GourangaUK 14:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested link