Talk:Yule

message: If you're going to speculate in the etymology of a Scandinavian word it's pretty stupid to base that speculation on how the word is used in English related languages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.213.91.104 (talk) 16:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's only if you're entirely ignorant about the etymology of language in general, as you seem to be: as English & Scandinavian dialects are all branches of the Germanic family of languages and all derive from the same etymology: lost fragments of Old English idioms can be reconstructed from Norse and vice versa when attests forms exist in one and not the other. This is the way it has been since the beginning of the study of such language and has held true for hundreds of years in the field of philology. 4.255.53.2 (talk) 02:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: Neopagan Yule: Isn't it backwards on the page? The page states that Oak dies and Yule and Holly ascends at Yule. I believe this is reversed (at least based on Farrar material). Holly is Waning year, which means from Midsummer to Yule, and Oak is Waxing - from Yule to Midsummer - so Yule is actually where Oak ascends and Holly dies. Double check me on this before changing please.
71.252.181.249 (talk) 05:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're both wrong, the change over points were actually considered to be the Equinoxes. 80.189.135.222 (talk) 13:53, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Oak and holly

message: The writer of this article states: "Yule was the winter solstice celebration of the Germanic pagans. In Germanic Neopaganism it is one of the eight solar holidays, or sabbats, where Yule is celebrated on the winter solstice: in the northern hemisphere, circa December 21, and in the southern hemisphere, circa June 21." I would like to point out that our Heathen ancestors did not have 'sabbats.' The sabbat is an invention of modern Wicca, thus associated with late medieval ritual and modern 'paganism,' as opposed to Heathenism.
:This article leaves out the fact that 'Christmas' translates to 'Jul' in some - if not all -modern Skandinavian languages. That seems relevant to me... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.52.63.183 (talk • contribs) .
::Well, this is Wikipedia so you know what to do: be bold and edit the article to include this fact.
::Atlant 11:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yule as Sabbat

message: In this article the writer suggests that the Old English word "géol" is related to geol, the word for yellow.  I have read that the word "géol" means "wheel" and referes to the beginning of the wheel of the year.
Nan Hawthorne Dec. 8 noog  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Merriehearted (talk • contribs) 00:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where did you read this? --Profero 00:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Removed: "Linguists suggest  that Jól has been inherited by Germanic languages from a pre-Indo-European substrate language and either borrowed into Old English from Old Norse or directly inherited from Proto-Germanic." from the article, been there unsourced for too long. — xaosflux Talk 01:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: In rural Ireland, a tradition "lost in the mists of Antiquity" is that of the "wren boys." On December 26, obviously "christianized" as Saint Stephen's Day, young men and boys would capture a wren, and then go from house to house singing various traditional songs. The most popular is that beginning:
:The wren, the wren, the king of all birds,
:On Saint Stephen's Night he was caught in the furze...(many variants)
The occupants of the houses visited would offer food and sometimes drink and might even join in the general hilarity, some of the younger members going onward with the "wren boys."
This might tie in with the pre-Christian role of the wren as part of Yuletide celebrations in Northern European cultures.--PeadarMaguidhir 07:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wren Boys 

message: I disagree with the description of Yule as "celebration of the Scandinavian Norse mythology and Germanic pagans. In Germanic Neopaganism"
neopaganism is not limited to Scandinavian & Germanic
Understanding that Yule Etymology, and its good description of having its roots in "the Scandinavian Norse mythology and Germanic pagans". But this statement is saying Yule is only for Germanic Neopaganism. Its being specific in a way that is excluding of other pagan peoples who also celebrate Yule-time.
Recommend making it more general, acknowledge the source, and acknowledge its spread beyond the Norse/Germanic boundaries. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.1.120.20 (talk) 16:11, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The word "Yule" is a germanic word celebrated into prehistory as a Germanic custom. If other ethnic cultures celebrated something about the same time of year it wasn't Yule had they related practices, whether having similar indo-European or beyond originating traditions. They were simply not Yule as that is solely the Germanic festival. 4.255.53.2 (talk) 02:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  why Germanic Neopaganism 

message: "Scandinavian humanist societies" celebrating yuletide are mentioned in the infobox and in the last section. I never heard of such celebrations, other than among a few eccentrics. It is true that most families celebrate "jul", whether they are Christian or un-religious. (Even some muslim families have started celebrating "jul", i.e. to mimic the celebrations of the majority population - food, presents etc. - of course avoiding specific Christian references, and probably avoiding pork too.) But what "humanist societies" are celebrating yuletide? Is it in one of the references? - PS. I'm a Dane.--Niels Ø (noe) 20:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can find no reference to Scandinavian humanists societies celebrating yule. I am going to mark the section as disputed.Master shepherd 17:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know a few non-eccentric Scandinavian individual and independent families celebrating yule, particularly at winter solstice 21 December, some of them in mild protest against the commercial Christmas, some of them as well as Christmas, but neither I have heard of other than very small racist "societies" organizing such events using the "Nordic" tradition for racist purposes.  And I wouldn't call them humanists! My impression is that humanists would not organize anything of the kind as to avoid creating a new religion. --Profero 00:46, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Here is a reference, in Norwegian: Feirer humanistene jul? - "does the humanists celebrate christmas/yule?".  I'm not a good translator, but the article states that the Norwegian humanists celebrate it in the same way as the christians - each family have their own traditions which is influenced by the external culture - culture coming from the shopping centres, the church, rituals predating the Norwegian christianity, etc. tobixen 13:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I edited the page to just say Scandinavian humanists and I tool off the disputed template. However, I left the citation needed becvause it would be nice to get an English citation.  Master shepherd 18:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I agree, but could you please rebuild the context of the long sentence more unambiguously. --Profero 20:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK I edited the section to try and make it a little clearer and more consistent with what little info we have. I removed the stuff about tomte as a precursor to Santa as I found no evidence for that anywhere. I still feel uncomfortable with the section since I am not personally familiar with these Yule celebrations  and i can't read Norwegian. Master shepherd 05:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scandinavian humanist societies 

message: This midwinter I was asked by a friend what my "Jule brag" would be...  Old Norse form of a New Year's resolution...  Made before the gods...  A little more umph than a simple resolution.  I can't find anything about this reputed custom on the internet.  Might fellow wikipedians help me out?  Thanks... Emyth 13:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jule brag 

message: I would definitely support this from personal experience. It seems like looking for a citation that states that hamsters are a common pet. Glennh70 14:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Oxford dictionary defines "Yule" as meaning Christmas. I think that enough proof right there. Some people try to separate them, using "Yule" for the secular aspects and "Christmas" for the religious aspects, but that's a modern movement. Pagans have also tried to claim the word "Yule", but again that's recent. I once made cards saying "Yuletide greetings", because I thought it was a safe, traditional phrase that avoided any controversy over the word "Christmas". One of my coworkers accused me of promoting paganism :-( 69.159.196.72 (talk) 20:04, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  the 'citation needed' about Yule and Christmas being used interchangeably 

message: user:209.214.104.112 has deleted the Norway section several times in protest of the section's bad writing and inaccuracies. All information correlates with the Jul (Norway) article. I doubt this information was made up, but it could be out of date or even misplaced. Citations would be appreciated. The article currently only cites the Norwegian ministries cite. Can any one lend to this issue?209.214.104.112 13:53, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norway section, outdated? poorly written? complete rubbish? 

message: The introductory paragrpaph made claim that Christmas was superimposed ideologies over Yule practices.  While many neo-pagans make such speculation, Christains would disagree with such notion.  This sentence was pure speculation.  69.246.224.100 (talk) 22:32, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  CHANGED INTRODUCTION

message: The impression from intro and "A pagan history of europe" that yule was placed on the 25th but before this yule had only been celebrated by a lunar calendar.  However now i read in the King Hakon "hemskringla" above that "Before him, the beginning of Yule, or the slaughter night, was the night of mid-winter (Dec. 14), and Yule was kept for three days thereafter." was there a solar calendar in use in norway before the julian? because otherwise this source doesnt make since. is this source simply using the word yule to describe midvinterblot... 99.140.188.137 (talk) 17:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The "Dec. 14" was added by a modern editor. I assume "night of mid-winter" is a translation of midvinterblot. Kauffner (talk) 04:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

text: It appears Early Germanic People added an extra month in the summer, occasionally, to keep the count in line with the solar year. It also is probable that the celebration of Yule was a lunar festival; whether it was the lunar cycling straddling the Winter Solstice Night or whether it was the one starting after it, is not clear. It appears to me that Yule meaning the Solstice Night was only a thing in England. 80.189.135.222 (talk) 15:54, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Date of Yule (Pre-Christianization)

message: The quote regarding the attempted suppression of Yule celebration among pagan artisans who swore mutual aid and protection to each other has a familiar ring to anyone who is a Freemason.  More books have been written trying to establish a coherent theory of the origin of Freemasonry than one can shake a stick at.  The conventional theory is that Freemasonry arose from Medieval Guilds, of which the quote suggests these "confraternities" were the precursor. Can you tell me more about the original source for that quote?Guy of Auvergne (talk) 19:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confraternities of Artisans 

message: Why is there no mention in the article about the last day of Yule? Or is it only an Icelandic tradition to have gatherings and bonfires on the 6th of January? Please, any Scandinavians here that can comment. mvh. Anna --83.183.0.117 (talk) 13:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was traditional to speak of twelve days of Yule, i.e. Dec. 25 to Jan. 5 with Epiphany on Jan. 6 as a bookend. As a practical matter, people nowadays stop celebrating around Jan. 1. The bonfire thing is just Iceland. Kauffner (talk) 02:02, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

text: I am not Scandinavian so I apologise for commenting but just want to make the point that in England 'Twelth Night' was the celebration of the night before Ephiphany (5th) so not just an Icelandic thing. 80.189.135.222 (talk) 16:05, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The end of Yule 

message: Besides here, one can find many instances of how the Nazis resurrected the Germanic holiday Julfest (the word redirects here to the Yule page, it is the German word for Yule) to replace Christmas. It was spearheaded within the SS by Heinrich Himmler, gifts were no longer to be given (this was replaced to on a summer holiday) and different pagan perceived traditions replaced them like large bonfires and the use of the Julleuchter. This should be mentioned in the modern traditions part of the article. That the Third Reich re-used the holiday is quite the notable event in modern times and the modern history of the holiday as distinct from other holidays. 4.255.53.2 (talk) 02:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What Himmler proposed is radically different from what we have in the historic record. It is very much a creation of its own and not a continuation of any historically attested form of Yule. :bloodofox: (talk) 00:01, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nazi's replaced "Christmas" instances on official SS documents with "Julfest" and altered celebrations. 

message: This might be of interest to someone working on this article.
That's from:
* Orel, Vladimir (2003). A Handbook of Germanic Etymology. Leiden: Brill. pg. 205. ISBN: 90-04-12875-1.
It goes on, too. If anyone would like to add some of this, or if you'd like to see some other entries (e.g. *xwexwlan) or the rest of this one, drop me a note. --Aryaman (talk) 22:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Any help with the article is, of course, most welcome. :bloodofox: (talk) 20:33, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

text: The Old French, from which it was borrowed into Middle English, is jolif. Oxford's Etymological Dictionary says there is "perhaps" a connection to Old Norse jól, Webster's says "probably". Though I doubt whether including this particular piece of information helps this article (we could just as well add a long list of compounds, particularly from Old Norse), I wouldn't necessarily object to someone adding it. --Aryaman (talk) 19:30, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

text: The etymology of jolif to Yule follows the widely established opinion of XIX century German philologist Friedrich Diez, whose studies belong to the golden age of philology, which also was the golden age of fantastic etymons (see Nietzsche's philological works). The OED's word on it - to mention one - is as follows: " The origin of OF. jolif is uncertain. French etymologists have generally followed Diez in referring it to ON. jól (= OE. {asg}eól) YULE, or to a cognate German name (indicated by Gothic Juleis November) for the midwinter feast of the northern nations, whence (in ON.) for ‘a feast’ generally; thus *j{omac}l-{imac}vus, jôl-if would be = festive. But the historical and phonetic difficulties involved, whether the word is supposed to have been taken into F. from Norse after 900, or to have been Common Romanic, are such as to render this conjecture extremely doubtful. M. Paul Meyer suggests that OF. jolif might be after all:{em}L. *gaud{imac}vus, f. gaud{emac}re to rejoice, gaudium joy, with change of d to l, as in cig{amac}da, Pr. cigala, F. cigale, Vadensis, F. Valois, and some other words". Since the derivation is at least doubtful, and this is not a specific philology page, I'd say the mention becomes irrelevant. MerlynBlacktawse (talk) 20:21, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology (again) 

message: I just read this article to find out about the Yule, and was quite suprised to see the mention of to the book Harry Potter at the end. I question whether this is relevant or notable. There would surely be many other works that reference Yule, along with countless songs and other traditions that deserve more note than a minor detail from a contemporary children's book. 86.156.245.248 (talk) 13:20, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone slipped it in. I have since removed the text in question. :bloodofox: (talk) 04:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevance of Harry Potter 

message: I added "then Christian" to the part that says "cultural, Pagan" because chances are Yule wouldn't even be known in contemporary times if it weren't for preservation of records of Yuletide traditions by Christian monks and more importantly its deep association with Christmas in later times. The Neopagans wouldn't even know what to celebrate if it hadn't been for Christian monks and the blending of Yuletide into Christmas and yet the two and a half billion Xtians in the world can't even get a sentence? Not even after the glowing paragaphs about the inspiring worship of 95 Wiccans and 82 Neopagans all over the world (read Greenwich Village and West Hollywood) who celebrate the purely neopagan celebration of Yule?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.159.228 (talk) 04:45, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand your point, but please see the other side: From the Pagan perspective, those very same Christian monks are the ones responsible for the loss of the heathen traditions in the first place, so they are not exactly jumping at the chance to credit them with "saving" Yule. --Aryaman (talk) 14:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Correcting overview

message: The article says:
In chapter 55 of the Prose Edda book Skáldskaparmál, different names for the gods are given. One of the names provided is "Yule-beings." A work by the skald Eyvindr skáldaspillir that uses the term is then quoted, which reads:
:Again we have produced Yule-being's feast [mead of poetry], our rulers' eulogy, like a bridge of masonry.
Citing "Faulkes (1995:133)". I'm unable to find this source.
I can't find anything to back this up in Skáldskaparmál: 
* English translated text: http://www.cybersamurai.net/Mythology/nordic_gods/LegendsSagas/Edda/ProseEdda/ContentsEnglish.htm#skaldse
* Old Norse text: http://www.heimskringla.no/wiki/Sk%C3%A1ldskaparm%C3%A1l
gumol (talk) 03:49, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Faulkes's translation is the modern standard English translation and is commonly available. It's there on page 133; Skáldskaparmál, chapter 55 (on collective terms for gods). :bloodofox: (talk) 04:56, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Pros-Edda reference 

message: Simek says, "The temporal coincidence [of Yule] with the mid-winter festival is rather problematic." (p. 379). The solstice was called mid-winter and celebrated on Dec. 25. We know Yule was moved to Dec. 25 with Christianization. We may therefore conclude that it was held on some other date earlier. Kauffner (talk) 01:11, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Simek also says "the identification with the mid-winter time of sacrifice is most likely". Did you miss that? We've got an Old Norse primary source (Saga of Hákon the Good) flatly stating that Yule had previously been celebrated on midwinter night for three nights prior to Christianization. In other words, either on and/or around midwinter (the winter solstice), just as the info box now says. This should be clear enough. :bloodofox: (talk) 01:47, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Solstice

message: There have been mentions about related holidays in Finland and Estonia for years. How did they got removed ?
Obviously some Nazi decided that non-Germanic peoples cannot be mentioned in an article about a Germanic holiday, which is absurd. Finnish Joulu even redirects to this page and there is no doubt whatsover that it is the same holiday as Yule Warbola (talk) 06:38, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Unreferenced material was removed, regardless of how Nazis may or may not feel about Estonia or Finland. :bloodofox: (talk) 09:05, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As of few minutes ago the article even failed to mention that a word of similar etymology to Yule is used in Estonia and Estonian for Christmas. It's a WP:CS and does not need referencing. Given the earlier discussion I presume the fact was previously mentioned in the article but then removed as someone's petty act. Vulc (talk) 21:50, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

text: Please try and assume good faith Warbola. Your accusations about nazis and what not is not terribly constructive. --Saddhiyama (talk) 00:44, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finland and Estonia 

message: I agree Pennick & Jones are fringe, I should have researched them more, though I recognised Nigel Pennick but I clearly didn't. I'm still curious about the idea of a two month 'Yule Tide', 2 30 day months, which was popular a century ago. Dougweller (talk) 19:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oops 

message: "December 25" is a date. It is a date that can be supported by numerous references. A favorite theory regarding the origin of the holiday is...not a date. Kauffner (talk) 03:34, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Kauffner, as I made it clear in my edit summary (and elsewhere on this talk page to you), look at some decent sources on the subject, such as Simek—which I've quoted in this article—and you'll find that "December 25" is not the case. In the future, do yourself a favor and don't assume "a favorite theory regarding the origin of the holiday". :bloodofox: (talk) 06:05, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Simek himself doesn't seem so sure about this theory. In ancient times, very few people would have been aware of the exact date of the solstice. In Egypt, they celebrated solstice on January 6 (Epiphany), although this would been several weeks off from the astronomical date. So even if Yule was a solstice celebration, that doesn't yield any particular date. Kauffner (talk) 10:22, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Kauffner, as I have now stated to you several times and scholarship makes clear, dating here is unclear, and thus the info box. I don't know what "theory" you're referring to. :bloodofox: (talk) 17:10, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is a date? 

message: I reverted your recent removal, as your edit summary appears to have claims at odds with the Pope_Julius_I article.  Do you think that article in error? — xaosflux Talk 05:07, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: , saw your revert, thanks for the summary information; I have not researched if that section is or is not supported, primarily had issue with the prior edit summary being out of alignment with the reference. — xaosflux Talk 05:53, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yule in Rome 

message: Turkish word "yıl" (IPA: /jəl/) means "year" and it was first recorded in 8th century Orkhon inscriptions. The inscription reads "men tokuz yigirmi yıl şad olurtım" (I ruled for 29 years as the prince). The word "yıl" has similar forms in other Turkic languages and Mongolian (cıl). I wonder if there is an etymological relationship between the words "yıl" and "yule".--Abuk SABUK (talk) 18:18, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Unlikely, since yule  likely comes from an indo-european word *Hieu-kʷlo meaning "age turn".User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 18:25, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yıl 

message: I haven't read about a proposed Common Germanic word like *jeχʷla-
But if this is the true, it should be mentioned that modern Finnish juhla is pronounced the same way (except for the first vowel). Finnish has a lot of Germanic loan words.
juhla means "feast, celebration" which is mentioned further down in the section as possible meaning.
89.15.238.25 (talk) 19:38, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common Germanic *jeχʷla- 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: in my family, we celebrate Yule from December 11th and until January 6th  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.171.218.9 (talk) 15:53, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time 

message: An issue I think that remains on the page is we need to better explain the blurred line between Christmas and Yule in Northern Europe and the continuity between heathen and Christian practice. Yule isn't exclusively a heathen celebration now, being also a word commonly used in parts of the world for the Christian celebration. I'll have a think about how best to present this but I'm keen to hear the thoughts of others too :) Ingwina (talk) 15:02, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, if there are enough sources, a section could be dedicated to it. TylerBurden (talk) 15:03, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope - relationship with Christmas 

message: The lead section states "Yule was incorporated into Christmas during the Christianisation of the Germanic peoples". This claim is debated, see this article. Therefore I added the "Citation needed" tag. Unfortunately this was reverted by @Bloodofox with the message "The word "Yule" is used in contemporary English language discussions of Christmas, which is alone is enough for this claim, as discussed in the body". I think he refers to the section "Significance and connection to other events" (first paragraph). Here however is only stated that some Christmas traditions "possibly have connections to pre-Christian Yule customs". These 'possible connections' do not support the 'incorporation during Christianisation' claim in the lead section in my opinion. The claim should be removed completely. Do you agree? Johan van der Slikke (talk) 22:13, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: First, the blog you link to above from a claccisist is irrelevant ("the Kiwi Hellenist"). Second, the fact that the word yule and its cognates are used as a synonym for Christmas to this day in many Germanic language-speaking regions is more than enough to back this claim. If nothing else, yule was absorbed into what we today also call Christmas. :bloodofox: (talk) 23:59, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for taking the time to reply. I studied some more on the subject and I agree with you. The word "incorporation" sounded to me as if it claims some present-day Christmas customs and traditions originate from Yule, which is debated by the blog post. But the word "incorporation" doesn't necessarily make this claim. The last sentence of the lead section states correctly: "some present-day Christmas customs and traditions such as [...] may have connections to older pagan Yule traditions.". Johan van der Slikke (talk) 20:42, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncited claim: incorporation of Yule into Christmas during Christianisation 

message: Hello, The date today, is 7 Jan 2024. My name is Sharon.  I am a 70 year old Pagan. Not a Neo-pagan, or any other such metamorphosis. I am a Fornnordisk Hedniskhet. It is a Scandinavian term, which means Old Norse Pagan. And, I am here to tell you that this wiki-page is an insult to Pagans around the world, and an insult to the true meaning and heart of the Yule celebration.
Throughout my lifetime, I have watched as christians have repeatedly attempted to incorporate our Pagan celebrations into their own beliefs. They can NOT be incorporated, as christians would mislead you to believe. Our Pagan Festivals, predate christianity by several thousand years, and have nothing to do with christianity, at all. They never have, and never will. If any person tells you otherwise, then they are either christian, or it was related to them by some other means of christianity. No self-respecting Pagan would ever say/ do such a disgraceful thing. 
Yule predates christianity by thousands of years. And, contrary to what christianity would have you believe, it did NOT originate in Germany, or any Germanic country. Yule originate in Scandinavia in several thousand BCE. Yule is NOT a celebration of christmas, or any other christian holiday. "Yule" is, and always has been, the celebration of the "Winter Solstice". That, will never change. And it is still celebrated today throughout the Scandinavian countries. It cannot be incorporated (stolen) by any non-pagan entity.
This page is wholly incorrect, as Wiki should know from all the many objection of it's contents. It should either be replaced with factual knowledge of the origins and meanings of Yule, or it should be deleted. Randallratzancestry (talk) 00:12, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Please go ahead and provide your reliable sources and proposed changes to the page, and these can be discussed. Or proceed to make the changes yourself, ensuring to cite those sources appropriately. This rant isn't going to help anything get accomplished, and Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Also, to say you are a "Pagan [...] Not a Neo-pagan" is a bit strange, since the word "Pagan" itself originates from Christians, being a term meaning "country folk" which they used to describe those who followed various disparate polytheistic pre-christian belief systems in Europe. There are no "Pagans" today, only Neo-pagans (or "Contemporary Pagans", if you prefer). To say that Yule was incorporated into Christmas is a historical fact, so I'm not sure why you are contesting that. Yes, the relatively recent Neopagan movement has reclaimed Yule as a holiday for itself, but Yule was historically incorporated into Christmas when polytheistic European populations were wholly Christianized. Also, Yule is has not "always" been a celebration of the Winter Solstice, as the evidence shows it used to be timed in the January/February timeframe and was moved to the winter solstice to, ironically, coincide with Christmas by Haakon the Good (see here for more information).— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 00:36, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page is wholly incorrect & should be replaced/ deleted