Talk:Contemporary Catholic liturgical music

message: I expanded this page a bit.  I also added some material to the St. Louis Jesuits regarding the controversies about this music.
The fact that this music has become so widespread in American Catholic churches is certainly encyclopedic.  (I have lived in suburbs of Los Angeles, Seattle, and the Bay Area, and I'd say that over the past decade more than half the music I have heard at Mass has been from this crowd).  And the controversy over this kind of music seems important enough to be in the encyclopedia as well.
But where should this information go?  The danger of Wikipedia is that someone will write a paragraph about this controversy on the Dan Schutte page, and someone else will write a paragraph about it in the St. Louis Jesuits article, and someone else will write a very different thing on the Marty Haugen page.  I suggest that the major issues should be consolidated on one page.
To me, the major issues are:
* the fact that this music has partially replaced the older music (and is this just in the suburbs?  or is rural America also singing these songs?)
* the fact that liturgical 'liberals' and 'conservatives' have strong opinions on whether this is good
* the connections (if any) to the Liturgical Movement, Vatican II, and the Novus Ordo Mass
* and maybe some generational issues (the composers are all baby boomers, many of them born around 1950)
But where should this page be?  Should it be on the St. Louis Jesuits page where it is now?  That seems wrong, since that page is not about this music in general but only about certain composers.  Should it be on this page?  Probably, but I think this page is misnamed, because I don't believe that the term hymnody includes anything but hymns, and these songs are not hymns.
Suggestions? - Lawrence King 07:23, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should this page be expanded? deleted? renamed? 

message: So far, no one has replied to my original comments above.  So I will make a specific proposal.  If no one objects, I will make edits based on the following three principles:
1. This page should have its title changed from "Contemporary Catholic hymnody" to "Contemporary Catholic liturgical music".
2. This page should contain information about the contemporary disputes regarding this music -- whether it is appropriate to the liturgy, whether it is singable, etc.  Obviously this isn't a forum for individual opinions, but the fact that the "music wars" or "liturgical wars" often involve debate about this music is itself encyclopedic.
3. Everything about the "music wars" that currently appears on the Dan Schutte, Marty Haugen, and St. Louis Jesuits pages will be moved to this article, because all of the comments on those pages actually apply to this whole genre, not just to one composer.
4. In the future, if someone adds material about the "music wars" to an individual page, it will be moved to this page (unless it clearly refers to a single composer's work).
Objections?  Agreements?  Comments?  - Lawrence King 02:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A concrete proposal 

message: ... was written by the late Fintan O'Carroll. There's an edition published by GIA just in his name, under the title "the Irish Alleluia". Christopher Walker's contribution was the verses adapted from the Te Deum. So I've suggested Laudate Dominum as Walker's best known piece. Is that right? There's a case for Because the Lord is my Shepherd or Veni Sancte Spiritus, I guess.C0pernicus 23:17, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that we will never know for sure unless we can find a giant survey of the most commonly sung songs in parishes in the English-speaking world.  But probably "Veni Sancte Spiritus" would be a confusing choice, because I've heard the chanted version of that far more often than I've heard the modern version. - Lawrence King 23:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Celtic Alleluia 

message: Those who appreciate "we-focussed" music point out that that Sacrosanctum Concilium recognized that Christ "is present, lastly, when the Church prays and sings."
This statement is a non sequitur. The quotation from Sacrosanctum Concilium, and, for that matter, the entire constitution on the sacred liturgy, does not address the question of music that praises the congregation.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.109.46.238 (talk) 19:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Logical error in discussion of congregation-focused music

message: Recently, an editor removed a significant portion -the most valuable portion - of this article with little justification.  Rather than get in a fruitless revert war, I have copied the deleted text below for editors to work on.  It needs better referencing.  Please work on the text below.02:42, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversies surrounding this music 

message: Where do I find Wikipedia templates to demand citations for, e.g., this:
"Two of the primary critiques of contemporary Catholic hymnody (sic) are the often vague, misleading, or heretical content of the lyrics, and the overt imitation of popular music, which is strongly discouraged by Church documents in recent years."
A typical bigoted opinion masquerading as a fact, weasel words and all.
You'd think it would be easy to find such templates in Wikipedia, but I can't; can anyone put me straight?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.156.155 (talk) 22:20, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where do I find templates for flagging articles? 

message: As an observation, this particular page talks a lot about a genre of music that can be described better as Folk music ("Nature Hymns") rather than contemporary Catholic Christian music. When you compare the descriptions on Contemporary worship music with this one, it seems like you are dealing with something completely different. If I may be so bold as to use nicknames (as I don't know how you would define this group exactly): Traditionalist Catholic music, Evangelical/Charismatic (Protestant) contemporary music, and Charismatic Catholicism can be seen as different reactions to the (here's the nickname) Hippies's form of music; to the music that, while not (for the most part) heretical, is essentially fluffy. The ironic thing about the various renewal movements (like the TLM-ers and the Charismatics), they paint each other (and I would say no doubt that the "hippie"/liberal "Catholics" try to paint the picture this way as well [the TLM-ers are either old people or young stuck up people, and the Charismatics are just a reincarnation of the hippies) as enemies; when they are actually likely going to be the major evangelizers in the New Evangelization. The non-committal, relativist, promotion of "being a nice person" and tolerance as the greatest virtue that came after Vatican II was the cause of the nominalism of most modern Catholics; the Charismatic and the Traditionalist movements could prove to be the cause of the conversion of that culture, if they work together...
sorry, I will get off my soap-box, I was just bringing up the differences between what this page sees as contemporary and what Contemporary worship music (and the rest of the world...) sees as contemporary (I mean, Matt Maher comes to mind. I know it is technically "liturgical" music [if taken to mean "Mass parts", not "Any of the music in the Liturgy], but I believe Maher also wrote Mass parts)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gideon.judges7 (talk • contribs) 18:58, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Contemporary" Catholic vs. Contemporary Christian 

message: It seems like this article should include coverage of Black Catholic liturgical music, but it's not clear whether the article is specifically referring to a genre ("contemporary", a la "contemporary Christian music" among Protestants)—which might preclude Black styles. 
In any case, the first official American Mass celebrated in English was by a Black Catholic (Fr Clarence Rivers' "An American Mass Program") and was influenced by gospel music, but he and this program are not mentioned in the article. Also of note is that OCP and GIA both have Black Catholic gospel collections dating back to this period. natemup (talk) 15:30, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Catholic music (gospel, et al)