Talk:Flag of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic/Archive 1

message: There is a general confusion between WS (a disputed territory) and SADR (a self proclaimed exile government over this territory), this government and its flag are not unanumously internationally recognized as the ligitimate government and flag of the territory. Daryou 22:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I guess that consensus in that case means simply YOU??!! and what ungrammatical name are you talking about???!!!!
===>No It means discuss it before you move it, and see if people agree with you; of course. It would be "Flag of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic" if anything. See Flag of Republic of China and Flag of the Republic of China. Justin (koavf) 23:15, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion 

message: Can this be removed now, if I have understood correctly that there will be no move? Arre 01:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  This flag isn't the flag of WS, there is a problem of neutrality and occuracy of this article. Daryou 17:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV marker 

message: I agree with what the Minister said. This is as usual going nowhere. Let's see what people feel about this, instead of having to go to mediation. Sign your name under the heading you generally agree with, or add another one. But be sure to have read the arguments on this page before voting. If there's a strong majority for either side, then let's work from that with disclaimers on the page to satisfy the minority.
* Flag of Western Sahara is the only possible option
**-Justin (koavf), talk 23:16, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It says above, it's an attempt to avoid mediation by seeing what the people involved feel about this. I just set it up to see if there was some kind of consensus or at least a general opinion among the participants in the debate. Now, a lot of other people have joined in as well, after Daryou posted messages about this on talk pages of presumed sympathizers. I have no problem at all with that - the more people that take an interest, the better. But perhaps we should scrap the test vote and hold a proper, decisive vote instead (formally posted and all), since this one is no longer confined to those of us who were debating. Then that could settle the issue. Arre 01:25, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Arre. It sounds like a good idea. -- Szvest 12:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: test vote

message: * Flag of Western Sahara: Flag of SADR, with links to Flag of Morocco and possibly Flags of Provinces in Moroccan Sahara
* Current votes: 21.
* THE POLL IS CLOSED
Support:
# Votes are evil, but meh, what can we do. —Nightstallion (?) 16:50, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Option 1: [[Flag of Western Sahara]] should remain as is

message: * This flag should be moved to Flag of Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, and the disambiguation page should refer to all flags relevant to Western Sahara (Flag of SADR, Flag of Morocco, and possibly Flags of Provinces in Moroccan Sahara)
* Current votes: 4.
* THE POLL IS CLOSED
Support:
# As I said above Western Sahara is a disputed territory, not a state. Referring to the Polisario's flag as the flag of WS is misleading and biased: First, polisario doesn't control the whole territory, second; It's an adoption of polisario's POV. Neutrality of WP is more important than the naming convention: no one disputes that neutrality is one of the pillars of WP (WP:5P), the naming convention isn't. Dark side 20:03, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Option 2: This page should be a disambiguation page

message: * This flag should be moved to Flag of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, with tags linking to other relevant pages, or to Flags of Western Sahara (disambiguation) if necessary.
* Current votes: 14.
* THE POLL IS CLOSED
Support:
# Support, see above. Dark side 20:03, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Option 3: this page should be redirect to [[Flag of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic]]

message: The comment by Arre above alerted me to the fact that multiple votes need to be counted differently than single votes. Percentages are usually calculated in relation to the number of votes cast, but in this case the possibility to cast multiple votes would unbalance this system. Therefore, I have calculated percentages on the basis of the total voter turnout; this is the only way to do a fair comparison on the support of each of the options among those who voted. I hope the rationale behind this is clear. Cheers, The Minister of War (Peace) 14:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Voting System

message: The FINAL TALLY is as follows:
:Voter Turnout: 35 individual voters
:Option 1: 21 support votes (60% of total voters)
:Option 2: 4 support votes  (11% of total voters) 
:Option 3: 14 support votes (40% of total voters)
This means there is no consensus to rename the article. There is certainly no consensus to make this into a disambiguation page. There is some support to make this page redirect to the Flag of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, although it is outnumbered by those who feel it should remain as is. 
Although the status quo has not received a clear-cut consensus, it remains the most supported option. As such, we can conlude there is no consensus to change the status quo.
On a follow-up note, I suggest that the discussion now turns towards expanding the actual content of the article. As some editors have already noted, the discussions raging here are actually very itneresting, and should be incorporated as much as humanly possible within the article.
Cheers, The Minister of War (Peace) 09:13, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FINAL RESULTS 

message: Ironic how nearly all of those who voted for keeping the name Flag of WS belong to the Polisario supporters category. So if every Moroccan state employee voted here saying that calling it Flag of Sahara Terrorists is NPOV, it would mean it is?
Now I'm starting to understand some of the critics about Wikipedia. Fervent proponents of a cause are always willing to devote more energy to promote it than more neutral and moderate parties. And Wikipedia as a platform doesn't escape their targetting...
--Yobaranut 00:48, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is what some call a vocal minority, in WP it is called Systemic bias--Khalid hassani 17:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: So 18 POV saying it's NPOV means it's NPOV?

message: Please do not modify the poll itself. I can assure you I have no particular preference either way. Some amount of POV words cannot be avoided in a conflict which is about the use of words, more than anything else. We are all obliged to accept some of the "other side's" terminology. 
Moreover, rephrasing the poll when it is ongoing and when most of you are so clearly a party in the dispute leads to discussions (and we've already had plenty), and - worse - to a chaotic poll. Remember, the primary function of this poll is not to discuss, but to give others a quick overview of the conflict, and let them make up their own mind.
I have rephrased parts of the poll. If you want any addition/retraction post it on my talk page rather than here. The poll itself should stay clean. The Minister of War (Peace) 19:52, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a toughy. Would it be possible for this to be at flag of SADR with flag of western sahara redirecting here? This would make it easy to find and allow the common usage to send you here. It would also be reflecting the technical realities of the situation. Whatever the result, flag of SADR might as well be created as a redirect too anyway. Robdurbar 22:39, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If I'm not mistaken, your suggestion is listed as option 3 above. Currently its the other way around; Flag of Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic redirects here. The Minister of War (Peace) 08:48, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: General Comment

message: ===>Sorry I didn't mean to rock the boat; I just thought an important argument (consistency/precedence) had been deleted from it. -Justin (koavf), talk 19:59, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Mea culpa]]