Talk:Eleanor, Fair Maid of Brittany

message: This is a very poorly written article. It reads like an undereducated high school history paper. Please address.  Timber72 (talk) 12:55, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Would be glad to have someone improve it. Although I really have found a lot of details to fulfill the article, I have to admit that English is not my mother tongue.——Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 06:41, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be happy to help edit it for you. I'll tackle it when I have the chance. Timber72 (talk) 13:32, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, many thanks.——Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 16:40, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poorly written article 

message: I do not speak French, when I tried to get information from the French equivalent, I had to do online translation, but for this section, I could not ensure its accuracy. If the section added by me had faults, I would like someone who is good at French to correct it.Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 08:12, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the section of ''Legend'' 

message: Eleanor of Brittany and her Treatment by King John and Henry III is an article by Gwen Seabourne, but it is currently inaccessible to me, so I can only get some trivial information from it by Google. As far as I am concerned the article is about the life of Eleanor and is much more detailed than any other English sources I can find up to now. I think it must contain much useful information to help readers know much more about the poor girl (although I am now convinced that she had been treated well by Henry III, but it is under no doubt that she was never released or permitted to marry).
So I am waiting for someone that is accessible to the article.
Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 14:43, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I have downloaded its PDF.——Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 23:02, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  An inaccessible source to me 

message: As per our talk page discussion, I'll have a look over this properly over the next couple of days, but some thoughts in the meantime:
* Some of the references/citations need expanding slightly. For example, where you're citing "Eleanor of Brittany and her Treatment by King John and Henry III" by G. Seabourne, you'll need to explain what it is. In this case, it's an academic journal, so you might expand it to:
::"Eleanor of Brittany and her Treatment by King John and Henry III," G. Seabourne. Nottingham Medieval Studies, Vol. LI (2007), pp. 73-110.
* ...here are various styles of doing this but you'll need to make clear in each case whether it's a book, or an article, etc. so that another editor could find it. Have a look at The History of Bristol, Civil and Ecclesiastical: Including Biographical Notices of Eminent and Distinguished Natives by John Corry and John Evans next, perhaps - if it's a book, where was it published and by who? What's the publication date? (I'm happy to help out as necessary!)
*Where you're citing a book or an article, you'll need to give the page number where the piece of information was. So, rather than just saying the information is in Seabourne, if it was on page 73 you'll need to say: "Seabourne, p.73." - or, if the information was spread over several pages, e.g. pages 73-4, "Seabourne, pp.73-4." This will help other editors find the relevant bit in a long volume.
*Where you're citing a web page, you'll need to include both the link and the title of the web page, as well as the date when you looked at it. So, for your reference to "British History Online" you might have: 
::"Houses of Benedictine nuns: Abbey, later priory, of Amesbury," British History On-Line. Accessed 10 January 2011. 
*...again, there is more than one way of doing it, but you'll need those three bits of information at the least.
*There's a fuller explanation on this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources.
*Hchc2009 (talk) 11:11, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy-edit... 

message: Though it is me who found the word from Internet and added to the article, I do not quite understand where does "semi" present here. As far as I am concerned, Eleanor was put under house arrest rather than in prison. She MIGHT be allowed to visit Woodstock; she was likely to be permitted to have a ride sometimes; she was exhibited to the public annually while at Bristol Castle. However, I also find that she was "closely guarded" even after child-bearing years, or "under strict custody", which suggested that she had little private freedom in her life, as King Henry III would never permit her to give birth to a child or flee or be rescued.... So what does "semi" present here?Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 03:03, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect it is someone trying to communicate that she was not imprisoned in the sense of being locked in a gaol, but was still in captivity and not entirely free to travel.  I think your current text communicates that sense quite well actually. Hchc2009 (talk) 18:26, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I think such descriptions on Internet rather than in books might not be so accurate, as in fact the expenses of Bristol Castle on locks and keys between 1225 and 1227 might suggest that Eleanor had been somehow locked in the tower or room, for reasons unclear, as I have not found if there had been turbulence around Gloucestershire, if irrelevant to Henry III's refusal to obey the charters.——Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 23:01, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-Captivity? 

message: I find one of my citing might be challenged for the strange year the event took place:
^ Bristol Castle:In a code of instructions signed at Berkeley, August 28th, 1249, the King enjoins the mayor and bailiff of Bristol "to lengthen three windows of his chapel, and to whitewash it throughout; also glass windows are ordered to be put in our hall at Bristol, a royal seat in the same hall, and dormant tables around the same, and block up the doors of the chapel beside our great hall there, and make a door in the chancel towards the hermitage; in that hermitage make an altar to St. Edward, and in the turret over that hermitage make a chamber for the clerk with appurtenances; also build a kitchen and a sewer beside the said hall, and find the wages of a certain chaplain whom we have ordered to celebrate divine service in the chapel of our tower there all the days of our life, for Eleanor of Brittany, our cousin, to wit, 50s. per annum."
If the instruction was signed in 1249, how could the late Eleanor "wit" it? In fact I have found sources saying that Henry III increased her apartment/household (during her lifetime, surely), but if he did this 8 years after her death, what did he want to do for her? For her soul to wit?Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 09:24, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  1249, 8 years after her death, what did the king want to do for her? 

message: English is not my mother tongue, so I am not sure whether I got the story (see the link): Did the Pearl accept the fact that she lost the throne? What did the decision of the protectors about her final treatment, "theoretically confinement" mean, close/strict confinement, house arrest, or merely nominal confinement that in fact would set the Pearl free? How would the protectors employ Guy now lover of the Pearl? Would they be separated forever at last? Hoping somebody to explain to me.Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 09:57, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the Novel ''The Shimmering Sky'' 

message: Initially I thought Pope thought Eleanor had a better claim than Henry, and inferred the Pope was Honorius; but now I think he meant she had a better claim than Louis, her cousin-in-law. So the Pope might be more likely Innocent than Honorius.Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 02:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I am sure as I have read the full article of Gwen Seabourne.——Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 22:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction: The POV of Pope on her English claim 

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thread_title: File:Below the Salt.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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thread_title: File:Thomas Costain Below the Salt Cover.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: I could read little about it on Internet. In fact I only learned that Eleanor appeared captive in it and that someone in the novel said "I heard people call you 'Pearl of Brittany' and now I know why", implying she was still beautiful then, but no useful information else, so I failed to conclude how she was described there. So did that case of In the Midnight Shadow.Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 16:21, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Here Be Dragons'' 

message: I do not know why. I got "Eleanor was determined and tactful" by Google. I think the chronicle could be found and no one would cite it to reach a wrong assessment of her.Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lanercost: citation needed? 

message: There's something I don't quite understand: Eleanor was styled Countess of Richmond from 1208 to 1219, and then the Earldom passed to Peter of Dreux, her half-sister Alix's husband.
But there are charters made by Alix and Peter before 1219, in which they use the titles comitissa/comes Richemundie (see Everard and Jones, The Charters of Duchess Constance of Brittany and Her Family (1171-1221), pp 169,170, 173). For instance, charter Ae5 dates back to July 1214, and charter Ae2 (dealing with the Earldom of Richmond) was made between 1203 and 1213, maybe before Alix's marriage since Peter (who acted as a regent for her between their wedding and her death) isn't mentioned in it.
So how could it be possible for Eleanor to be suo jure Countess of Richmond while her younger half-sister used this title at the same time? I think it might be more accurate to say that Eleanor was only titular Countess of Richmond (and even Duchess of Brittany, since John Lackland allowed her to use this title). Aziliz Breizh (talk) 15:17, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: After all Richmond is in England, so I do not think Pierre or Alix could administrate it. But John and Henry III could do this in the name of Eleanor the Countess.——Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 18:09, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The year was 1218 rather than 1219 as I have corrected.——Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 19:01, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Countess of Richmond 

message: I made a little change to King Richard's name. Maymichael2 (talk) 18:45, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: However, it seems to have been considered unnecessary.——Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 14:04, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello Wikifolk,
I was wondering if the lack of a comma in the bolded usage of her name was intentional or if it was missing one. Pretty minor but it should be consistent with the article's title if the comma is indeed missing.
Be good people
Seabass715 (talk) 23:53, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Does this doubt still exist?——Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 13:00, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Comma Chameleon