Talk:Super Smash Bros./Archive 2

message: Link to gonintendo.com 
http://gonintendo.com/?p=22340
It's confirmed, there's pretty much no other way to read it, they are in.
: We already have a topic about this. And new topics go on the BOTTOM of the page. See my comments there. --HeroicJay 05:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides, there are plenty of ways to read it; like how it was misread in the first place. - Jishmeister 17:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

text: He doesn't actually say they're in. He says designs have been submitted. It's the title of the article (which he himself did not write) which claims "ZOMG SHIEK & GANONDORF IN BRAWL LOL!" - Jishmeister 18:43, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sheik and Ganondorf Confirmed for Brawl

message: I really think the table is not accurate. When you're actually playing you can't choose Sheik as a playable character you have to use Zelda and transform it, still, she's Zelda. Link and Young Link are OK, because you can choose either one of them. Also with Zero Suit Samus, it's not accurate to put it as a separate character, you'll have to choose Samus and then transform it.
I think this would be more accurate:
Fighter                	SSB     	Melee   	Brawl   	From game series
Bowser                 	width=60	width=60	width=60	Mario series
Captain Falcon         	        	        	        	F-Zero series
Donkey Kong            	        	        	        	Donkey Kong series
Dr. Mario              	        	        	        	Dr. Mario series
Falco Lombardi         	        	        	        	Star Fox series
Fox McCloud            	        	        	        	Star Fox series
Ganondorf              	        	        	        	The Legend of Zelda series
Ice Climbers           	        	        	        	Ice Climber
Ike                    	        	        	}       	Fire Emblem series
Jigglypuff             	        	        	        	Pokémon series
Kirby                  	        	        	        	Kirby series
Link                   	        	        	        	The Legend of Zelda series
Luigi                  	        	        	        	Mario series
Mario                  	        	        	        	Mario series
Marth                  	        	        	        	Fire Emblem series
Meta Knight            	        	        	        	Kirby series
Mewtwo                 	        	        	        	Pokémon series
Mr. Game & Watch       	        	        	        	Game & Watch games
Ness                   	        	        	        	Earthbound series
Pichu                  	        	        	        	Pokémon series
Pikachu                	        	        	        	Pokémon series
Princess Peach3        	        	        	        	Mario series
Princess Zelda / Sheik1	        	        	/       	The Legend of Zelda series
Pit                    	        	        	        	Kid Icarus series
Roy                    	        	        	        	Fire Emblem series
(Zero Suit)2 Samus     	        	        	        	Metroid series
Solid Snake            	        	        	        	Metal Gear series
Wario                  	        	        	        	Wario series
Yoshi                  	        	        	        	Yoshi series
Young Link             	        	        	        	The Legend of Zelda series
Notes:
1.   In Super Smash Bros. Melee, Sheik is not a stand alone character but a transformation of Princess Zelda. 
2.   In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Samus Aran loses her armor after using her Final Smash and becomes Zero Suit Samus.
3.   Although not comfirmed by Sakurai himself, Peach appears in the 42 second movie clip along with Zelda in the Subspace Emmisary Adventure Mode.	Notes:
1.   In Super Smash Bros. Melee, Sheik is not a stand alone character but a transformation of Princess Zelda. 
2.   In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Samus Aran loses her armor after using her Final Smash and becomes Zero Suit Samus.
3.   Although not comfirmed by Sakurai himself, Peach appears in the 42 second movie clip along with Zelda in the Subspace Emmisary Adventure Mode.	Notes:
1.   In Super Smash Bros. Melee, Sheik is not a stand alone character but a transformation of Princess Zelda. 
2.   In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Samus Aran loses her armor after using her Final Smash and becomes Zero Suit Samus.
3.   Although not comfirmed by Sakurai himself, Peach appears in the 42 second movie clip along with Zelda in the Subspace Emmisary Adventure Mode.	Notes:
1.   In Super Smash Bros. Melee, Sheik is not a stand alone character but a transformation of Princess Zelda. 
2.   In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Samus Aran loses her armor after using her Final Smash and becomes Zero Suit Samus.
3.   Although not comfirmed by Sakurai himself, Peach appears in the 42 second movie clip along with Zelda in the Subspace Emmisary Adventure Mode.	Notes:
1.   In Super Smash Bros. Melee, Sheik is not a stand alone character but a transformation of Princess Zelda. 
2.   In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Samus Aran loses her armor after using her Final Smash and becomes Zero Suit Samus.
3.   Although not comfirmed by Sakurai himself, Peach appears in the 42 second movie clip along with Zelda in the Subspace Emmisary Adventure Mode.
Sarkie 01:00, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  Zero Suit Samus has been labeled a newcomer character on .  --Son 01:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it has been labeled as a newcomer because it's a new TRANSFORMATION and probably will have different powers and abilities like they clearly explain it here . If that's the case, then add Giga Bowser, it's the same thing, it's the Final Smash.
Sarkie 17:26, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Once again, no, it's not. Zero Suit Samus is the result of the Final Smash. Giga Bowser IS the Final Smash. Does Giga Bowser have his own section on the characters section of the site? No, he doesn't. Zero Suit Samus does, however! Would you look at that. They're not the same case. Giga Bowser is temporary, Zero Suit Samus is permanent  -Sukecchi 17:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Then remove that stupid sandbag!  It's not a fighter, it's just an object you kick around.  I don't care if a cheat device can let you play with it for a few seconds before crashing.Rglong 16:26, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sandbag may have the properties of an item but Sandbag is a NPC because it has a smash symbol and health percentage, however because of its role in the game does not require moves it has no programmed move set. This was already discussed.→041744 19:36, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

text: What are you talking about? Theres no 3 anywhere. Dengarde ► Complaints  02:00, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess they changed it but I saw it around 9 o clock Tim5(guest)--70.156.180.66 04:35, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Playable Characters 

message: Isn't it a bit redundant to describe Giga Bowser on both this and King Bowser's articles? They seem to contain pretty much the same information. Gurko 11:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all. They're two separate articles. -Sukecchi 11:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I know. And that's why I think it's redundant. Gurko 12:53, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ...It's not. What if someone is interested in reading Bowser's article but has not interest in reading about Super Smash Brothers? And vice versa. -Sukecchi 12:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It just makes sense to keep all information on a subject at one place. If someone wants to know about Giga Bowser but not about the Smash Bros. series, they can just read the little section on Giga Bowser instead of the whole article and then go back to reading about Bowser. Gurko 13:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Because Giga Bowser IS the final smash. Zero Suit Samus is the result of the final smash. Not to mention Shiek is a separate character from Zelda. -Sukecchi 15:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Giga Bowser 

message: As much as I would like to believe this, I don't think there's any real proof to back this up. I believe it to be nothing more than speculation, as Giga Bowser was probably made playable simply to test out his moves. Should it be removed? Telemachus Claudius Rhade 20:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless there's actual proof, it's pretty much speculation and should be removed. -Sukecchi 20:39, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Giga Bowser planned to be unlockable in Melee? 

message: I was just at the feed page on G4tv.com and their reporting that Sonic is already in the game but they still have to wait for Sega's okay to make him a playable character or something of that sort. I was wondering if some one could look into this for me and put it in the article or to make sure I read it right on their page. I'm not going to put it in myself because I know I'll just piss off some one somewhere. So some one should check this out. I don't have the exact link but it's on g4tv.com/thefeed.
Zabbethx 16:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: on videogamesblogger.com in the article sonic hint as next wii fighter miyamato himself comented saying thursday they will update the site to wheather hes in or not —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Smashinglegs (talk • contribs) 18:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a combination of multiple reports. One report stated that Sonic was the most requested character. Another, the one we have now, states we'll know by Thursday if Sonic is the game. You haven't really found anything. -Sukecchi 19:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The article G4 cites as a source was removed from TSS. The regular editors at :Super Smash Bros. Brawl have deemed the information to be currently unreliable. Dancter 20:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I'd say leave it until it's confirmed before adding anything. -masa ♫ 02:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't seem to understand. It was a HOAX. Not real. Meaning nothing will happen tomorrow. -Sukecchi 15:49, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic in Brawl 

message: Technically, Gigabowser is playable in brawl. Bowser's super smash turns him into Giga Bowser, which is able to be controlled by the player for a short time. Thus he should be marked under playable. Please someone edit that chart. For proof, check the super smash bros. brawl official website.
:"Technically" yes, but if you look at preveuos disscusions and go to Giga Bowser 1, 2 and 3 you'll see why he's not there... PLEASE look back to past topics before bringing a new one up.→041744 20:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I mentioned this before but it kind of got archived.  Could "Bowser/Giga Bowser" maybe be listed as such in the same cell in the playable characters box with a footnote explaining that Giga is playable legitimately in Brawl.  Plus, Giga can also be left in the NPC box since we don't know if he'll be a boss character again.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 15:15, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, Giga bowser is not a full character, thus he should not be in the playable character's template at all, and please don't come back and say "Then lets take down Zero Suit Samus as a full character", beucuse she, unlike giga bowser, is on the playable characters table on the offical site.→041744 19:37, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Zero Suit Samus is listed under there because she has greater depth as a character than Giga Bowser, but is nothing more than a part of Samus. If you're going to call it a playable character, you must also call "Names", "This World...", and "Four Kinds of Control" game modes. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Believe me, I've read all the arguments and I wasn't going to even bring up Zero Suit Samus.  So no need to bite my head off.  I was just trying to help come up with a solution that would stop the posting of comments about having Giga Bowser on the table.  But if you like having to answer the same questions over and over again, have at it!  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 14:45, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One: Good job posting in a topic thats been dead since July 26th. Second: It's already been decided, so stop crying. Dengarde ► Complaints  04:19, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Giga bowser "playable" 

message: There's a discussion going on at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games about possibly shortening the  navbox.  Anyone who wants to have their say on what, if any, changes should be made are invited to join.  Thanks. Nall 05:09, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Navbox discussion

message: If this is a reliable source, we can tell for sure that Ice Climbers, Game & Watch and Young Link won't be in Brawl. I'm not sure if I can go ahead and add it to the page though. There's a link in that article to a French page, that originally gave the information, and it also mentions that "It's been confirmed that the following characters appear in the new part of Smash Bros: Bowser Junior, Ridley, Link version Wind Waker". The reason I don't edit it in, is because the French text is dated june 2006. Does anyone know more on this subject? --MooNFisH 07:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That rumor has been around for over a year. Why won't it just die already? And why does NOBODY seem to see that "dropping Young Link and adding Wind Waker Link" is an absurdity? Wind Waker Link is Young Link! --HeroicJay 07:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: More nonsense. This has been floating around for a year. It's not real. There is no waiting for a reliable source. -Sukecchi 17:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bowser Jr, Ridley, Link (Wind Waker), Ice Climbers, Game&Watch, Young Link 

message: For some reason it wont let me edit the Playable charecters if someone wants to do it for me it keeps logging me out i need to add Knuckle Joe they just announced him on the official sight
:FYI: It's "site" as in place not "sight" as in seeing.→041744 15:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Knuckle Joe 

message: Isn't today the day the page is supposed to be un-blocked from new and unregistered editors?  Although, I sense that it may just end up getting locked again.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 14:53, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it is unblocked so I removed the semi-protect announcement, also with it gone there have been 3 edits by unregistered users all of them unneeded and reversed or removed. The Light6 09:31, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page lock 

message: Maybe we could add a "First Appearance" column to the character chart, that way more people know when and in which game the characters made their debut. Think about it... Link 486 15:03, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't that what the "x"s and check marks do?  Take Ike for example.  Next to his name is an "x" in the SSB column, and another in the SSBM column.  The check mark means that SSBB is his debut game.  Characters with an "x" in the first column but a check under Melee means they debuted in Melee.  Likewise, all characters with a check in the first column debuted in the first game.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 15:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe Link 486 meant adding the title of each character's first appearance in their respective series. Like Mario's first appearance being in Donkey Kong. It could be a decent way to fill up that white space that eats up the right side of the screen, but then again that'd only apply to screens with high resolution, since the table would likely wrap on smaller screens. Disaster Kirby 15:49, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah Disaster Kirby's probably right, Link 486 probably meant "the title of each character's first appearance in their respective series". However I fail to see how that is relavent to this article, besides it already listens the series each character comes from. The Light6 16:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides, they'll probably have something like that in the actual game; like they did with the trophies in Melee. - Jishmeister 17:03, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yah, but if you don't know what game the characters are from, you have to go to a whole different page, and as an encyclopedia it is not our duty to make a maze of pages you have to go to to find your information. Wii2-13 19:44, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as it is relevant to the article, of which this is not.  Anyone reading up on Super Smash Bros. who is interested in finding out the history of a character in the game can very easily click the link provided.  --Son 21:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characters' first appearances? 

message: Screen shots show Koopas and Samurai Goro from F-Zero are they going to be added to the list.--Hitamaru 20:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, because they aren't playable characters. Disaster Kirby 20:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Characters? 

message: Why was Daisy added to the table?  There is no proof that she will be in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dartheyegouger (talk • contribs) 
::It's called vandalism. -Sukecchi 22:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Princess Daisy

message: Well after the semi-protection for this article was removed the amount of vandalism in this article has went through the roof, should I re-request semi-protection for this page until SSBB is released? The Light6 03:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I re-requested semi-protection. The Light6 12:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-protect page? 

message: Hm, this may be out of place on the series talk page, but no one was responding on the template's talk page, so... Since the series template no longer lists every playable character, is there any reason to keep the template on every character's article? Every playable character either has an entire section about being in Super Smash Bros. or at least a mention of being in the game, with links to the respective Super Smash Bros. games. The template just seems to be a space-consuming add-on now, in my opinion. Disaster Kirby 05:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's helpful to those viewing this article with no knowledge of the characters involved prior to reading the template.  If someone doesn't want to go to Jigglypuff's article to see if he(/she?) was in the Super Smash Bros. series, they can go to this page.  No action is necessary. Hyukan 07:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Template on the character articles

message: Are they really necessary? Seems like fancruft to me.--Imaginationac (Talk | Edits | Email) 16:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Burn it with fire. Action replay is not-notable. Axem Titanium 17:51, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Action Replay references 

message: http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/N07.0802.1741.54921.htm
ChozoBoy 03:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's evidence but it's not confirmation. It's a second-hand source and tricky wording. Besides, they could be ATs or something. (Theoretically. Sure, I am very confident Ganondorf is in, but let's not jump on every second-hand source we see; we still get people talking about the ICs/G&W/Young Link droppage rumor.) --HeroicJay 04:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. I figure that at this point we should only go as far as to make mention of it in a paragraph and not part of any "official" character template, until Dojo or a first-hand source says so outright. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 05:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Leave it until we have official confirmation from the DOJO or from Nintendo themselves NinjaRooster 07:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

text: It's more "how do you know Aonuma really said what the article says he said?" Again, erring on the side of caution. I do, however, concede Peach due to today's Dojo update. --HeroicJay 08:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ganondorf has a pretty solid case for inclusion, being that he starred in Twilight Princess; the same title that this installment's Link & Zelda seem to be pulled directly from. Shiek, however; is pretty iffy. After all, TP-version Zelda had no Shiek. Why would they bother going back to a seperate Legend of Zelda title just for the sake of preserving a character who isn't even compatible with the current iteration of the character she transformed from in the first place? - Jishmeister 16:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm the one who put that up there in the first place. It's definitely real, because Game Informer is well known and certainly reliable, and it's AONUMA, for crying out loud! However, I don't think it should go up there, simply because the evidence is solid--when putting it up there I didn't really consider that they could've been redesigned for trophies or something. (Though most trophies use their "classic" design, so I suppose a redesign wouldn't be necessary) While I do take this as 100% confirmation as I don't see them POSSIBLY doing anything else with them, it's just not going to check out with Wikipedia standards just because I don't see them redesigning them for any other purpose. Lastly and on a smaller note, to Jishmeister, this is NOT TP Zelda, it's the SSBB Zelda! All characters take moves from many different games. Why should Zelda be any different just because she has a new model? Evan1109 16:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, so that's why "NOT TP Zelda" looks exactly like "TP Zelda?" Just like how "NOT OoT Zelda" looked exactly (albeit somewhat less "last generation") like "OoT Zelda," complete with "OoT (not to mention the only other appearance of) Shiek?" - Jishmeister 16:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactaly. They LOOK like TP Zelda and OoT Zelda, because they're BASED of TP and OoT Zelda. But they ARE NOT TP and OoT Zelda. Dengarde ► Complaints  18:37, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. So why would a Zelda that LOOKS like TP Zelda transform into a Shiek that LOOKS like TP Shiek, when there is none? You can't tell me that Zeld LOOKING like TP Zelda transforming into Shiek LOOKING like OoT Shiek wouldn't just be weird, & that Shiek changed to LOOK like some hypothetical TP Shiek wouldn't just be tacky. - Jishmeister 18:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever the case may be, we know Sheik will be in SSBB, redesigned, in some form or another. Whatever you believe about Sheik's playable status, that's true. We'll just have to see. I'll leave it up to you guys if you want to put Sheik and Ganondorf as confirmed (I certainly believe they are) but it was against my better judgement to rush to put them on the article so soon. Evan1109 21:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Even though SSBB Zelda is based off of TP Zelda, thats where the similarities end. SSBB Zelda can, and most likely WILL be able to transform into SSBB Sheik. As for Gannondorf...I'm not so sure about him. Regardless, they should not be included in ther article until confirmed. Dengarde ► Complaints  21:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Believe what you want; but it's a matter of tangibility. Until we see a SSBB Ganondorf & (ugh) Shiek (that's right, all this time my argument has been primarily based on personal bias; I hate that a second-rate one-shot gets more praise than the staple character she spawned from), they are assumed to be nothing more than designs sitting on a harddrive somewhere. - Jishmeister 14:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shiek and Ganondorf 

message: At the official website they just put up a video with her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyty812 (talk • contribs) 15:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 1. There is already a discussion about this going on. 2. Please start new discussions at the bottom of the page. 3. Please sign your posts in the future with four ~. The Light6 15:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't include Peach as a playable until Nintendo explicitly confirms her in some way, i.e. until a Nintendo rep mentions her or she is featured with her own page on the Dojo.Rglong 17:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

text: You're missing the entire point. We KNOW that she will be a playable character, and we expect Mondays update to be Peach. but until then, there is no actual proof that she's playable, so we can't add her yet. Dengarde ► Complaints  03:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

text: yeah we really do KNOW she is in brawl as a playable character but lets just do it their way and wait71.194.137.245 03:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, we are not "incredibly stupid", we know she's in it.  But wikipedia has guidelines.  Even articles about video games must adhere to them.  If the topic were more socially important or controversial, like about the holocaust or something, it might be easier for you to see why strict guidelines are necessary.  But just because this is about a little cartoon character (one of my favorites, might I add) doesn't mean the guidelines don't apply.
So that is the key to wikipedia.  Proof.Rglong 05:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

text: No they were confirmed on the old site to be playable characters and the first trailer confirms them as new comers, also I fail to see how they could be like Giga Bowser as he is Bowser's Final Smash. The Light6 10:55, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

text: That's not why we're leaving her off the list.  We're leaving her off because there's no footage of her fighting.  Otherwise, I doubt this discussion would even have happened; there'd be no room to argue her playability then. Arrowned 03:50, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Princess Peach in Brawl 

message: http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/N07.0802.1741.54921.htm
IN the end it stands that hew works on the design on Link Sheik and Ganondorgf in SSBB so I guess that someone coulld add them to the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.234.118.224 (talk) 07:26, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is already a discussion for this here  The Light6 11:34, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sheik and Ganondorf in SSBB 

message: Since Sandbag is on the list, along with wireframes and fighting polygons, shouldn't we add the other non playable characters that appear, or at least have a list of Assist Trophies and/or the other minor enemies that appear in melee and brawl? 75.4.195.0 17:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No those characters don't have a symbol, damage meter or full move set so they are not a NPC by any standard. As for sandbag, he does have a symbol(the smash bros. symbol, as with all NPCs in that section) and damage meter, however because his role requires him to be a scingoat, he was given no moveset.→041744 17:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nonplayable characters