Talk:Steven Dale Green

message: Can someone confirm this Monster's birth-place? Midland, Texas or Seabrook, Texas?
The first paragraph in Biographical details seems conflicting with his picture caption! 
Green grew up in Seabrook, Texas and moved to Midland, Texas when he was 14. ...?!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coramaroc (talk • contribs) 06:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Birth-Place of the Monster? 

message: Seeing as his trial has not started, I removed the killer & rapist links because it has yet to be proven.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krustynailz (talk • contribs) 19:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Too early to label him a killer or rapist

message: The Mahmudiyah incident section (only) of this article should be merged with the main Mahmudiyah incident article. Repeating the details of the incident here is redundant, especially considering that new details of the incident are emerging by the day, making it a current news story. Of course it makes sense to briefly mention what the Mahmudiyah incident entailed, but a prompt referral to the main Mahmudiyah article should then follow. 
Steven Dale was one of 5 soldiers charged for the rape and murder. He the most well known because he was charged in federal court. The other 4 are in Iraq, away from the public eye. It seems a disproportionate degree of credit is being given to Steven Dale only on account of his greater public notoriety. Were the US military to release details of the other 4, the press would be all over them as well.
This article can well be dominated by details of Green's personal and professional life, however the Mahmudiyah incident should be given it's own space as Steven Dale was one of several players involved in that event. 
This is akin to having separate articles for Lee Harvey Oswald, and the Kennedy assasination --User:Drpak 18:45, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge of a section of this article with main article of the [[Mahmudiyah incident]] 

message: The ID card was obtained by Reuters. I added it in the main article . Her age was 14. --Drpak 15:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  age of victim : ID card proves age 

message: While it's almost certainly not 25 as stated by the military, it is not yet clear whether Abeer Hamza was 14, 15 or some other age.  There are still conflicting accounts.  Stating her age definitively here is unverifiable information and hence not permitted.
*Her uncle appears to describe her as a 15-year old here.
*The hospital apparently believes she is 14, as we see here.
There are also somewhat less credible reports of 20 and 25 floating around.  Which is it?  
If anyone intends to keep inserting a definitive number, please show uncontroverted  evidence of Abeer Hamza's age here.  Until then, why not just sidestep the age issue in the beginning by using the equally accurate "villager." --Birdmessenger 16:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The media reports of her being an adult were part of the initial attempt at a cover-up, which failed miserably. Not that her being an adult would have made it ok, but her being a child makes it that much worse. nut-meg (talk) 21:20, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

text: FWIW, if her mom's age is really 34 that puts an upper limit on her age, and she was almost certainly a teenager.  I don't think there is any problem with reporting the ages reported in other sources, so long as the source is properly cited.  --  Geo Swan 20:33, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, (though some sources are still mentioning the possibility of her being 20 years old--not impossible even if the mother was 34) so long as we don't definitively declare her to be a "15-year-old" or "14-year-old".  And we have this in there: Military officials give her age as 20, while the affidavit filed in the case describes her as a 25-year-old;[3] however, an Iraqi official has said that she was only 15 years old.[4] An Iraqi doctor at the Mahmoudiya hospital has stated she was just 14.[5], which covers the age issue well, I think. --Birdmessenger 21:16, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Okay, that's more than enough for me.--Birdmessenger 01:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  age of victim 

message: :FWIW, if her mom's age is really 34 that puts an upper limit on her age, and she was almost certainly a teenager.  I don't think there is any problem with reporting the ages reported in other sources, so long as the source is properly cited.  --  Geo Swan 20:33, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, (though some sources are still mentioning the possibility of her being 20 years old--not impossible even if the mother was 34) so long as we don't definitively declare her to be a "15-year-old" or "14-year-old".  And we have this in there: Military officials give her age as 20, while the affidavit filed in the case describes her as a 25-year-old;[3] however, an Iraqi official has said that she was only 15 years old.[4] An Iraqi doctor at the Mahmoudiya hospital has stated she was just 14.[5], which covers the age issue well, I think. --Birdmessenger 21:16, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Okay, that's more than enough for me.--Birdmessenger 01:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mom's age

message: Where is his mug shot picture? Are mug shots copyrigted? 24.166.188.29 11:37, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think mugs are public domain, since they are paid for by taxpayer dollars. Isn't this picture of him a mug? There is probably also a military id pic out there somewhere. nut-meg (talk) 21:28, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea the main picture is his mug shot, this post was just made before that pic was added. Ryan4314  (talk) 08:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture

message: The Washington Post article referenced in in this article quotes him as having said this; would this be something important to add to the article? It would reveal rather a lot about his state of mind and is, well, right there in front of us. I'd add it in but I'd rather wait for someone more familiar with the article (I only scanned through it once or so) to find an appropriate place to include it.   Aar  ►  15:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The "I came here to kill people" quote is a large part of the defence teams case. I assumed it was already mentioned in this article, sure add it in. Really, this whole thing needs a rewrite. Ryan4314  (talk) 15:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "I came over here because I wanted to kill people." 

message: The article says he is a convicted war criminal. I thought he was convicted in a civilian court rather than military or international court. Was he even charged specifically with "war crimes"? Doesn't that have a definite legal meaning? Not that I don't agree that he's morally a war criminal, but we should really try to be as accurate as possible. nut-meg (talk) 21:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Technically I agree with you, however Wikipedia is not defined by international law or U.S. law, but by our own consensus. I think we can all agree that this act was a crime of war, so for the sake of clarity to our readers, I think it's easiest to define him as a war criminal. Ryan4314  (talk) 08:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wikipedia does still have to follow laws, libel being an important one. It's unlikely that Green is going to sue Wiki for calling him a convicted war criminal, but rules should be followed anyway. I don't know if this is really a violation. The way it is might be just fine, but saying he is a "convicted war criminal" as opposed to he is "convicted of war crimes" are close to being the same thing. I'd rather err on the side of accuracy. Try reading it from the perspective of someone who knows nothing about the incident and see what it looks like. I know this is sort of a picky thing, but I'd like to see Wikipedia be as accurate and credible as possible (tough task, I know)nut-meg (talk) 20:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think "convicted war criminal" is fine, perhaps it might be best to look up about the legal definitions of what makes a "war criminal", otherwise we're just speculating. Ryan4314  (talk) 07:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

text: * Was Green a "war criminal"?  Many observers, including reliable, authoritative sources, think so.  Personally, I agree.  But I changed the one instance where the article called Green's crimes a war crime, in the wikipedia's voice.  We don't say "Hitler was evil", in the wikipedia's voice.  We quote RS who say "Hitler was evil".  I think it is a mistake to call Green a "convicted war criminal", when he was convicted of simple murder, not a war crime.  Geo Swan (talk) 19:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  War Criminal 

message: Hi, good that someone stopped the merge. The person whom decided to close the Afd said that he didnt "take into account" some peoples opinions. This isnt a merge article. end of story.--Judo112 (talk) 09:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: He also didnt at all mention other Keep sayers who actually told why BLP didnt apply on this article. something smells very bad..--Judo112 (talk) 09:28, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good stopped merge