Talk:King for a Day... Fool for a Lifetime

message: Should it be mentioned that around this time, Mr. Bungle also released their most experimental record? - ZEROpumpkins 06:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how it's relevant, since the bands are only minimally connected (via Patton and Spruance). Patton's own highly experimental Adult Themes for Voice came out the next year, but I wouldn't mention it here.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.136.139 (talk) 17:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Its relevant if sources can be found that suggest its relevant, which for their previous albums I have. I also wouldn't consider a third to two fifths of the members of the bands a minimal connection. — Balthazar (T|C) 09:50, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mr. Bungle Influence 

message: Does anybody know the background singers at the end of Just A Man? --88.74.232.13 (talk) 19:10, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The album's CD liner notes don't say, and my copy of the LP doesn't have any liner notes with it. Odds are there's no official credit given for it, GRAPPLE X 21:48, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Background singers in Just a Man 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is it:
# 1
"King for a Day... Fool for a Lifetime"
(wikipedia, musicbrainz, faithnomore.fandom)
# 2
"King for a Day, Fool for a Lifetime"
(applemusic, spotify, allmusic, music.youtube, amazonmusic)
# 3
"King for a Day Fool for a Lifetime"
(discogs)
and WHY? Toke0 (talk) 17:47, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the album? 

message: Bringing this here because apparently edit summaries and an in-article edit note aren't enough. The manual of style is very clear at MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE that an infobox should be used "to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article". Sticking a genre field into the infobox which is in no way supported by the article itself, and is in fact directly refuted by the article, is not helpful, and it's entirely counter to MOS practices. Reverting its removal as "unexplained" despite clear explanation is disingenuous. The actual prose of the article describes a "genre shuffle", a "breadth of genres", "multiple genres", etc, which would be a strong indication that shoehorning in some information which is not discussed in prose is not actually reflective of the subject, and is merely WP:GWAR behaviour that serves no one. Can this please stop. 2.222.160.197 (talk) 21:05, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that the primary bad actor here (User:SpaceHelmetX1) is refusing to engage and is instead resorting to attacks on character, I am going to open an RFC on whether this field belongs in the article or not. 2A02:C7E:329F:5A00:5C9D:6C90:2658:2581 (talk) 23:18, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *If it helps, the sources (see Rolling Stone and AllMusic, for example) explicitly describe it as a mix of styles. 151.224.190.163 (talk) 20:11, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *:Doing a spot check, this pretty directly calls the album a progressive rock album, so I certainly support its inclusion. If the others are this clear cut, I'll just revise my stance to "Yes" I suppose. Sergecross73 msg me 20:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *::I think the following may be worth bearing in mind--from AllMusic: "he tackles any genre put in front of him -- romantic love songs, bile-spitting rants of hate ... gospel, and breezy pop"; from Spin: "the music still careens from genre to genre"; from Metal Hammer: "[they are] a pop band, a rock band, an avant-garde noise outfit, a funk crew, a synth-rock band, a hardcore band, a deeply psychedelic band"; from Rolling Stone: "a genre-shuffle that added Portuguese balladry and soulful crooning to the band's militantly eclectic agenda". I believe any source which is ascribing a singular genre to the record is doing so on basis of an individual song, which is as accurate as describing an album as "instrumental" just because one track is. 151.224.190.163 (talk) 20:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *:::It's pretty standard protocol to do both. Got sources that directly state a genre? Add it to the infobox. Got a source with a more nuanced view? Add it to the prose. Sergecross73 msg me 20:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *::::However, if the article doesn't actually discuss what the infobox says, per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, then it shouldn't be summarised there. They shouldn't contradict each other. 151.224.190.163 (talk) 20:28, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *:::::Then add all the infobox content in the prose too. It'd be one thing if the content was truly contradictory ie "Rolling Stone said the album was "definitely not prog rock material". But that doesn't appear to be the case. Sergecross73 msg me 20:34, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *::::::Given that I believe it to be a disingenuous conclusion, the onus is not on me to add anything in support of it, and unless that is done then the current field still falls afoul of the MOS. 151.224.190.163 (talk) 20:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *:::::::I see no contradiction here. Infoboxes are like a WP:LEAD - an overview, not all encompassing. And music genre is subjective, not absolute. Your conclusion comes off as somewhere between being deliberately obtuse, misguided, or not really looking to work with others here. I wont discuss further, as this is bordering on WP:GENREWARRIOR type stuff, and generally a waste of the community's time. Sergecross73 msg me 20:50, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: It's a waste of time to spend so much time on such a non-issue. And it's hard to believe your intention is not edit warring given the level of edit warring over this point by IP addresses that write the same way you do. Sergecross73 msg me 21:11, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If I could get anywhere by pointing at policies and having people actually discuss their edits we wouldn't be here, but I'm discussing something actually based in MOS principles while a user whose only contribution is to knee-jerk mash the undo button ignores every attempt to engage. Remind me again why burnout is such a factor in editors 151.224.190.163 (talk) 21:19, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genres in infobox 

message: Given the article's prose clearly discusses a breadth of genres and no sourced prose is given over to categorising the album as any one distinct thing, should an infobox genre field be omitted here in accordance with MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE? 2A02:C7E:329F:5A00:5C9D:6C90:2658:2581 (talk) 23:18, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: *If it helps, the sources (see Rolling Stone and AllMusic, for example) explicitly describe it as a mix of styles. 151.224.190.163 (talk) 20:11, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *:Doing a spot check, this pretty directly calls the album a progressive rock album, so I certainly support its inclusion. If the others are this clear cut, I'll just revise my stance to "Yes" I suppose. Sergecross73 msg me 20:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *::I think the following may be worth bearing in mind--from AllMusic: "he tackles any genre put in front of him -- romantic love songs, bile-spitting rants of hate ... gospel, and breezy pop"; from Spin: "the music still careens from genre to genre"; from Metal Hammer: "[they are] a pop band, a rock band, an avant-garde noise outfit, a funk crew, a synth-rock band, a hardcore band, a deeply psychedelic band"; from Rolling Stone: "a genre-shuffle that added Portuguese balladry and soulful crooning to the band's militantly eclectic agenda". I believe any source which is ascribing a singular genre to the record is doing so on basis of an individual song, which is as accurate as describing an album as "instrumental" just because one track is. 151.224.190.163 (talk) 20:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *:::It's pretty standard protocol to do both. Got sources that directly state a genre? Add it to the infobox. Got a source with a more nuanced view? Add it to the prose. Sergecross73 msg me 20:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *::::However, if the article doesn't actually discuss what the infobox says, per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, then it shouldn't be summarised there. They shouldn't contradict each other. 151.224.190.163 (talk) 20:28, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *:::::Then add all the infobox content in the prose too. It'd be one thing if the content was truly contradictory ie "Rolling Stone said the album was "definitely not prog rock material". But that doesn't appear to be the case. Sergecross73 msg me 20:34, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *::::::Given that I believe it to be a disingenuous conclusion, the onus is not on me to add anything in support of it, and unless that is done then the current field still falls afoul of the MOS. 151.224.190.163 (talk) 20:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: *:::::::I see no contradiction here. Infoboxes are like a WP:LEAD - an overview, not all encompassing. And music genre is subjective, not absolute. Your conclusion comes off as somewhere between being deliberately obtuse, misguided, or not really looking to work with others here. I wont discuss further, as this is bordering on WP:GENREWARRIOR type stuff, and generally a waste of the community's time. Sergecross73 msg me 20:50, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

text: It's a waste of time to spend so much time on such a non-issue. And it's hard to believe your intention is not edit warring given the level of edit warring over this point by IP addresses that write the same way you do. Sergecross73 msg me 21:11, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If I could get anywhere by pointing at policies and having people actually discuss their edits we wouldn't be here, but I'm discussing something actually based in MOS principles while a user whose only contribution is to knee-jerk mash the undo button ignores every attempt to engage. Remind me again why burnout is such a factor in editors 151.224.190.163 (talk) 21:19, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: RFC on the inclusion of a "genre" field in the infobox