Talk:The Apprentice (Libby novel)

message: Had the book received any criticism from Japan? Nil Einne 06:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism from Japan 

message: I've inserted links to the exact pages of the quotations at Google Book Search.  This should be much more convenient for readers than just a page reference.  Please don't remove the links.  Cheers.  Grover cleveland 22:48, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry about previous change; I left your links to direct page numbers in (verification); but I fixed the citations; 2005 and 2002 eds. would be paginated the same. [See later section re: pagination variations in various reissued paperbacks.]  The 2005 printing is not a new ed.; it is simply a reprint (reissue).  Otherwise it would be "2nd ed." or "rev. ed."  A reprint [in trade paperback] [generally] has same pages numbers as edition being reprinted.  The notes are rather redundant, but at least they are clear. [Not so sure now which version Google Book Search used for its scans.]  Note 1 says the page references are incorporated within parentheses in the text.  (Standard format: see WP:CITE.)  Thanks again. --NYScholar 00:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: If the quotation is permissible, it can be part of text; need not be confined to note.  If not, someone will remove it later.  I don't think there's a problem quoting it; it documents the statement.  But linking to the Google pages directly as "hot links" could be problematic in terms of copyright.  Might want to consider that, given copyright restrictions for Wikipedia.  Posting a page directly is re-distributing the copyrighted material via the internet, which is a no-no generally.  (See Google Book Search copyright notices.) --NYScholar 00:41, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your reply.  I don't think there should be any problem with copyright infringement:  The Apprentice is available under Google Books "Limited Preview" mode, which means that Google has an agreement with the publisher to display limited portions of the book to the public.  In any case I don't think that merely linking to an infringing website itself constitutes copyright infringement in U.S. law:  if it did Google, Microsoft and every other search engine would have been out of business long ago.  However Wikipedia does have a policy discouraging such linking.  Could you point me to a link to the Google Book Search copyright statement you refer to?  Cheers. Grover cleveland 00:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Hi NYScholar.  Linking to content is not redistribution.  If it were, then every single external link on Wikipedia would be a copyright violation.  There is no copyright problem here. Grover cleveland 11:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Link to exact page at Google Book Search

message: Here, btw, is the publication information about the 2002 reprint (Thomas Dunne Books division of St. Martin's Griffin; or "St. Martin's Griffin/Thomas Dunne Books", not "St. Martin's Griffin" alone); later the 2005 reprint features on back of book "St. Martin's Thomas Dunne Books/St. Martin's Griffin" logo; a reissued paperback that was already a reprinted paperback of a hardcover edition (first edition still, but paperback, not a second ed.) features both imprints on back of cover; that's how one knows it's the 2005 and not the 2002 reissue/reprint:
St. Martin's Press
256 pages
Size: 5 1/2 x 8 1/4
$12.95
Trade Paperback
St. Martin's Griffin/Thomas Dunne Books
Pub Year : 2002
ISBN: 0-312-28453-5 
The Apprentice takes place in a remote mountain inn in northernmost Japan, where a raging blizzard has brought together wayfarers who share only fear and suspicion of one another. It is the winter of 1903, the country is beset with smallpox and war is brewing with Russia.
In the flickering shadows of the crowded room, the apprentice, charged with running the inn during the owner's absence, finds himself strongly attracted to one of the performers lodged there. His involvement with the mysterious travelers plunges him headlong into murder, passion and heart-stopping chases through the snow.
Lewis Libby is the current Chief-of-Staff and National Security Advisor to Vice President Cheney and Assistant to President Bush. He previously held positions at the U. S. Departments of State and Defense. The Apprentice, originally published by Graywolf in hardcover, is his first novel.
:The search feature for author does not seem to function properly on the St. Martin's Press website (New York); this is from the St. Martin's Press online catalogue search for "St. Martin's Griffin", which is time-consuming (page by page).  It lists the 2002 publisher as "St. Martin's Griffin/Thomas Dunne Books" (as per the cited news sources in this article). --NYScholar 08:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Notice that the 2002 St. Martin's Thomas Dunne Books Trade paperback (which is the same size as the hardback [first and only ed.]) is [listed there as] 239 pp.; the "St. Martin's Griffin" paperback (which is apparently smaller in size than the first two printings) is listed as 256 pages in some sites; in others as 239 pp.  Google Books Search may not be accurately giving the date of publication if the page numbers given as 239 pp. are correct; that reissue is paginated differently than the hardback and trade paperback earlier printings of the novel. [A smaller book in terms of size of pages and size of cover (in the hand) would be more numerous in pages than a larger trade paperback (depending on size of the typefont).  So I don't know for sure which date of publication goes with the version featured in Google Book Search to which this article hot-links pages; even though the date given is 2002 in Google Books Search.  It is hard to know for sure because Google Books Search may not be properly presenting the information from copyright pages of the books that it is scanning.  Unlike Amazon.com's feature "look inside", there is no reproduction of the title page (inside copyright page on back of title page) for the book. It would help to see that. (FYI: Huge inventories of copies of this book are available via online booksellers and book re-sellers at as low as $1 plus some cents.  Contrary to the Nov. 2005 publicity re: online auctions, it is not hard to come by or expensive to purchase.) --NYScholar 09:42, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's a link to the scanned actual copyright page (back of title page) from Amazon.com "look inside" feature. (I used that to emend some info. above.) --NYScholar 10:56, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 256 pages; says 1 of 258 probably because the cover and back cover are included in scans? --NYScholar 10:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I found the copyright page that Google Book Search scans and it's different from the copyright page that Amazon.com scans: here's the link to the Google Book Search copyright page given for its scanned material: Link to copyright page; if that doesn't work, go to the righthand menu and click on "more" to get to "copyright" scanned page.  It is the "Thomas Dunne Books" imprint w/o the St. Martin's Griffin ref. on it (2002).  "2001" is when the author copyrighted the book before he transferred his copyright to the publishers (which it appears that he may have done; authors have choice to do that or not). --NYScholar 11:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Pagination: If "pages 128-248 are not part of this preview" in Google Books Search, then the imprint version featured has more than 239 pages and it could be the 248-page or 256-page printing that some online booksellers describe; it is not clear from Google Books Search which date of publication goes with the version that it is featuring on the site.  Confusing.  --NYScholar 10:13, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for all your work figuring this out. Grover cleveland 14:41, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the thanks! :-) (I hope that I figured it out; it's somewhat murky due to the way Google Books Search identifies its source [or doesn't?]. Some discrepancies there.) --NYScholar 23:12, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 2002 paperback reprint

message: As it currently stands, the entry has no list of characters or plot summary. I find it fascinating that spies and a secret society figure in Libby's novel, and that the apprentice has unwittingly hidden plans or maps which affect Japan's ongoing security. Other characters compete to find those plans, and that's what this "thriller" turns out to be all about, in fact...even if the apprentice himself, the title character, is left in the dark about the details. 
In his 2002 Diane Rehm interview, Libby himself said Japan was at a pivotal moment in 1903, citing this as a reason he was drawn to that particular time and setting. Why not mention that? And why no summary of the novel's plot, the characters, their actions? I don't know what New Yorker writer Lauren Collins thought was "homoerotic" in the plot, but I've deleted the LBGT studies template. Seriously, apart from those few passages, has anyone else actually read The Apprentice? — Sandover 01:48, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: character list, plot summary