Talk:Figure skating jumps

message: Lets have some short videos in here withthe jump types so we can actually visualize the different jumps?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.174.15 (talk) 00:15, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Videos

message: I suggest renaming this page to Figure skating jumps. 1) There is more than one jump, and, 2) the plural fits in better with the other skating articles. Awartha 23:05, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename 

message: If Johnny Weir (a clockwise skater)did a clockwise axel, kept his landing edge, and did a counter-clockwise lutz, is that a jump combo?TimHowardII 10:13, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverse Jumps

message: I noticed that the article makes no reference to twists for pair jumps, is that on purpose ? I can find no reference at all to this pair-specific jump in Wikipedia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolitos (talk • contribs) 02:43, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The ISU classifies twist lifts as lifts, not as jumps.  Dr.frog (talk) 14:25, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wasn't aware of that fact, thank you for the info !  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolitos (talk • contribs) 20:24, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

text: See figure skating lifts#Twist lifts  for (albeit not a lot of) info on twist lifts. Kolindigo (talk) 16:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pair Jumps

message: Is "Euler" in this context really pronounced in such a way that saying "a Euler" instead of "an Euler" is appropriate?  (I normally pronounce "Euler" as if it were spelled "oiler", but of course I'm talking about quite a different subject.) Michael Hardy (talk) 02:36, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "a Euler"? 

message: >Currently, men in world-class competition usually attempt a full set of triples and sometimes one or two quadruple jumps in their free skating programs. 
Just watched the US championships in which someone posted five quads. Are the numbers in the article still up to date figures for what is 'usually' attempted? TheHYPO (talk) 21:39, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Quads? current?

message: Stumbled upon this webage, about the physics of figure skating:  It includes details about jumps, as well as death spirals.  It should be incorporated into both articles, but I'm not working on them currently, so I wanted to record it here. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:43, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cool potential source 

message: The following table lists first recorded jumps in competition for which there is secure information.
User:‎Lansonyte, very nice.  I think this would be a great addition.  I'm working on improving this article, after improving all the articles about the individual jumps.  I'm taking a break from the more technical aspects of figure skating, but it's my intention to continue soon.  I wonder, though, if a chart comparing combination jumps would be a good idea to include. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 05:16, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you're welcome and thanks for the kind words.  My goal is to have all major articles about figure skating improved by the 2022 Olympics.  People tend to consult WP as their second screen while watching stuff like the Olympics, so it's a good idea to have high-quality articles beforehand.  I don't do charts well, so I appreciate your contribution. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 05:12, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sandbox: men and ladies side-by-side timeline comparison 

message: Men and ladies/women: I've been improving this and other figure skating articles.  Yesterday, I completed my drafting of a History section and added it to the beginning of the article.  I also, this morning, added a new section: Rules and regulations, which like the corresponding section in Pair skating, discusses specific ISU rules and regs about jumps.  Next, I'll work on the Types of jumps sections; as I've done with other articles, I'll use Wikipedia:Summary style and include information taken from the individual articles about jumps.  I think that we should remove the Scale of values section.  It's not interesting, and doesn't really tell us about jumps.  I also think that it may better belong in ISU Judging System.  So I'd like to propose that we remove it.  Please discuss; if there is no discussion for seven days (until 12/29/2019), I'll take it as assent and remove it.  I think that other sections should be either removed or significantly improved, but I'll bring them up as I go through the rest of the article.  Thanks! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:21, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Deadline passed, so I'll go ahead and take silence as assent and make the above change. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:06, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you don't mind I put back the scale of values section. I think it shouldn't be missing from Wikipedia because it's very valuable. Maybe moving it to ISU Judging System is good idea indeed, but before you move it, please don't delete it completely. --138.246.2.11 (talk) 23:21, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

text:  I've reworked the old massive table to a neat-looking format so it can stay on that page I think --138.246.2.11 (talk) 02:14, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

text: Hi Christine, sorry for having not responded in some time (I got a new job back in December, so it was a bit hectic there!). I just wanted to say I think you've done a great job at improving the article with these edits. I fully support your assessment that these sections were surplus to requirements and did not add to the article, but rather detracted from its overall cohesion. For what it's worth and even though I didn't weigh in at the time, I therefore completely agree with your decision to remove them. I also think you did a great job improving the table. Lansonyte (talk) 15:51, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks User:Lansonyte, for your kind words.  Hope your new job hasn't been affected like others have these days.  I'm glad you like the changes. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:35, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sections 

message: I over scratch card can you help me with the figure i jumped out the number Liongrant34 (talk) 10:06, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  I need solution of missing of figure 

message: I think it should be listed in the "History of first jumps". This section doesn't have a rule that the jump must be ratified in an ISU competition.
The old jumps listed there probably aren't either.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.167.154.232 (talk) 17:50, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The ISU only recognizes scores earned at international competitions, and although it's true that the Wikiproject Figure Skating hasn't codified it, we tend to follow that same convention. Perhaps it's time to do that, to come to a consensus about what scores to include, but the convention makes sense because there aren't always reliable sources about national competitions. I support continuing to follow it, which is why I reverted the addition about Petrosian's quad loop. BTW, up until the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the doping scandal, when one of the consequences of such actions were the banning of all Russian athletes from most international competitions in many sports, Russian figure skaters freely competed in international competitions. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:13, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: NO! We tend.... We? We who? FS-tops competitions are split to ISU-world and non-ISU-world. While currently the strongests FS-women are NOT under ISU now. So, ISU loose its ausority to represent the world state as a whole-world. If ISU not want to see Petrosian it is a problem of ISU. Wars, doppings scandals and so on and on.. are the permanent state of the universe, not mix girls and Big Politics. PavelSI (talk) 19:49, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Look, Axel Paulsen was not at ISU-competitions (because 1882 before ISU), but he get place at the table. Why? ISU make approval. To approve or not is dependent on a political or military question, not a problem of FS. PavelSI (talk) 19:56, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

text: About doping scandal, You mention this... If You mean case of Valieva, she is a "protected person" while the test was under her 16. It mean no information should to be shared to press. It is the roole of WADA. Leaders of WADA ignore their own rools and make the scandals. Why Petrosian is here? Ban WADA's management if they cannot make their work correctly. PavelSI (talk) 21:53, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You do know that the fact that Russia is banned from international competition has absolutely nothing to do with whether the jump is ratified or not, right? Were they competing internationally and she'd landed it at a JGP event, for instance, that'd be counted as the first women's quad loop, never the one at nationals Gwennire (talk) 13:20, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: International - You mean ISU. ISU is not respectable I think. Not an expert any more. PavelSI (talk) 02:34, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adeliya Petrosian quad loop at RUS Nationals 

message: There's some sort of layering/transparency issue with the image. The center right foot is missing in the image as it appears in the article but visible when you click on the image itself.  I'm hoping the Diagram Requested template will attract someone who knows how to fix this, but please adjust as appropriate if there's a better way.  Thanks! Gould363 (talk) 16:57, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I cannot see a problem with any of the images. Can you give further details? It would help if you specify the image with the problem (which of the 6 images in the article?). The web browser or settings that are used could also play a part. --Kallichore (talk) 19:43, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi, .  The bug appears to be fixed; probably someone took care of it, as I haven't changed browser or settings. I've deleted the Diagram Requested template. This is in regard to the line drawing -- all of the other images are photos.  Thanks for your help! Gould363 (talk) 22:39, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bug in image 

message: ISU is no more the universal organisation while the world-strongest women athlets are banned due to military friend-or-foe reasons. Points of view beyond ISU should to be listed. PavelSI (talk) 13:30, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I respectfully disagree about Ukraine, but I'm sure you already knew that. I also disagree regarding your statement about the ISU and its ban on Russian athletes. For now, it's the consensus of Wikiproject Figure Skating to only include records sanctioned and approved by the ISU, during international ISU-sanctioned competitions. Of course, that means that any records and/or accomplishments of Russian figure skaters, both male and female, aren't included in the most recent records listed in WP articles. BTW, there is historical precedence for this: in 1948, Japan and Germany were banned from the Winter Olympics. @PavelSI, I'm going re-revert you again, but I'm not interested in getting into an edit war with you, so if you change it back again, I'll put a template there instead. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:40, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  1) Disagree "about Ukraine" - what do You mean? It is the position of ISU to ban one of the combating sides to help another. Sports are used as a military weaponry. Am I wrong? 2) ISU can ban everybody they want at their own competitions. Other people may make their own. But if so, it shoult to mention that ISU is not the universal organisation and there is life beyond ISU. Sport does not belong to ISU. English language do not belong to ISU. PavelSI (talk) 18:44, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

text:  What does it mean "put a template there instead"? PavelSI (talk) 18:48, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

text:  ISU as a "consensus of Wikiproject Figure Skating" is in the past. Consensus mean ISU represent the strongest, but currently it is not true, so no consensus. See oficial ISU lists of the top-200 women in FS, ISU ban the best. It currently grand tittles to weak. It is distortion of the trueth. Consensus is no more. Japan is not a good example - it loose the nuclear war. Russia is not. But threat of the brutal nuclear military force is not a good practice, let's keep sports. PavelSI (talk) 19:07, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  As for me, there is no any consensus, no any sign of it. ISU take side of one of the currently combating sides. I see military censorship in the WIKI if editors keep not-neutral basis like ISU and revert edits. PavelSI (talk) 19:42, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  ISU 

message: @ I see you're returning back again  edit. So pls don't create your own rules. I understand your point regarding ISU weakness and partially agree that their actions don't match the Olympic slogan as well as many other international sports organizations. However it's the only international organization we have and it's the only who defines the current FS rules and the only organization who has control over international events. Still domestic events are not controlled by any single organization it's not possible to check any achievement there, and the rules are still the same as before well-known infamous happening. As we all can see in Guide domestic achievements are mentioned there only with corresponding postscript, as a sign of respect. Based on this, if some woman lands 4lo in intl. event then she will be the first executor of this jump, not Adeliia Petrosian. So I think as of today it'd better to not mention Petrosian's 4Lo in the table of first executions but to create a such footnote instead. This won't mislead people reading this article but will provide them a full view of happening. Antko (talk) 06:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Antko As for me, not OK. 1) term "ratified" - what does it mean? 2) As of the ISU, there is a cheat: it is international in meaning some-national, but not universal any more. There is no any global-earth observer, do U like it or dislike. Subject of the article does not belong to the ISU. 3) There was time before the ISU and we have time after. See Axel Paulsen - there was no any ISU that time at all. So be consistent - ISU-organized competition is not the solid requirement to get place in the table. 4) See this discussion above: Rittberger is an inventor of the jump wihout any proof, it is only a legend, Sonja Henie - no info was it an international competition, Axel Paulsen make his axel jump out of competitions at all. I see the table is very tolerant to the europeans, so why so strict at one standalone cell? As for me - it is the double-standard politics based on the national hate to well known nation which represent Petrosian. 5) "If some woman lands 4lo in intl. event then she will be the first executor of this jump" - any competitions without the strongest athlets is a fake, not follow this deception. PavelSI (talk) 20:43, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

text: Tell me please. Do u think Axel Paulsen is NOT the first to make his axel? Should we to replace his name in this table by the 1-st to make axel at the ISU competition? I just want to see, are you solid in your priorities. PavelSI (talk) 20:58, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @PavelSI, this article clearly states that the table includes skaters who successfully accomplish the jumps in competition. If you have a problem with that, that's okay, but it's been the consensus of editors and members of WikiProject Figure Skating and I highly doubt that it'll change. Please, by all means, go ahead and call for a discussion, but please refrain from the disrespectful comments you've made above, like the ISU is cheating; the inference that there's country-hating going on, and doubting Antko's "priorities". Of course Axel Paulsen was the first to land an Axel and he gets the credit for it both in this article and in Axel jump, but it's clear here that the table lists jumps accomplished in international competition. So far, that's the consensus and we're asking you to respect it until the policy changes.  Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:16, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, help me please PavelSI (talk) 10:08, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok fine. I'm going to take the discussion over to the WikiProject Figure Skating talk page, since such a discussion would affect several articles.  Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:26, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

text: I respect the rools. But rools are a set of precedents. I see 'Axel Paulsen was the first' but as for me, it is the precedent. PavelSI (talk) 10:38, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

text: 2, 5 - this is your private opinion. You can put it into your blog or fan club but here we're working on encyclopedia and shouldn't use user opinions. 3 - very simple. We had time before ISU, we will have time after this but now it's the only regulator in skating. It would be very queerly if someone suggests to ignore FIFA's rules in football or FIDE's rules in chess. But now you're doing the similar. Next, "double standard politics" and "hate to well known nation" is also just your thoughts. Despite the Russia ban, globally nothing is changed: Russia is still a part of the ISU structure, no one alternate regulator appeared, so we have that we had previously. "competitions without the strongest athlets is a fake" - we're talking about first execution of a particular element, not about athletes' strength at all. Also I don't want to believe your question about Axel Paulsen is just a trolling. In his time there were some rules, now they're others. Antko (talk) 06:18, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Antko, this is just not my personal opinion. I will say this again, for the third time: it is the consensus of the editing community and of the members of WikiProject Figure Skating. I won't engage in any more circular reasoning with you. I'll say this again, too: If you disagree with the consensus, you must submit it for either a vote or a discussion in order to change the consensus. I can even help you do that if you ask me. I'll also ask you again to demonstrate respect towards your fellow editors here.  Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:26, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Figureskatingfan sure, as I understand the current consensus, we're listing here only the elements are officially recognized as the first executions. Pls correct me if I'm wrong. I guess you wanted to address this message to the editor @PavelSI, right?  Antko (talk) 19:38, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Antko, @PavelSI: Yes that is correct. I didn't ping Pavel because I wasn't talking directly to them and figured they'd follow this discussion as they're been doing all along.  Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:12, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

text: @Antko once again. Is Axel the 1st to make his jump or we need to refer the ISU-only competitions? What does his photo do here in the article? PavelSI (talk) 10:13, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: if some woman lands 4lo in intl. event then she will be the first executor of this jump  - apply to Axel? PavelSI (talk) 10:15, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still 4Lo