Talk:Portugal/Archive 1

message: Afonso, please stop you communist bias in this article. And, the parties (that you constantly remove moved by political reasons) in the related topics are the biggest parties, every article has only the biggest ones. The rest are very faar away. -Pedro 18:10, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: mas eu gosto de ver o contra-informação quando posso! Ui adoro o boneco da Odete santos. Acho que é a pessoa mais carismática do partido. -Pedro 13:58, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Communist Bias

message: I've made a map, but I don't have the proper tools to make a better one. If you could help... -Pedro 20:39, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Pre-Roman Tribes map

message: what do you think? The foot tables are incontrolable, it talks about islands in Asia, it has flags of other countries... a military organization... It seems very out-of-context. If one sees the article for a second thinks Portugal is in Asia and has a red and white flag.... or many flags. I think the best is to make them has categories: one for Europe one, another for the EU one and another for Nato. -Pedro 14:04, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they're pretty useful (at least the EU and countries in europe ones). not sure about the NATO one, but all the other NATO countries have it... NATO may be better as a category, and Countries in europe maybe, but i definately like the EU one. FrancisTyers 15:33, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal the templates on the foot of the article

message: I've notived that the flag shown in the article has not the 2/5 of green and 3/5 of red, the red part is slightly larger, I think that should be fixed, replacing it by a better flag. Afonso Silva 11:28, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag

message: The page for Portugal in the Portuguese Wikipedia states that the national motto is taken from the 6th verse of The Lusiads. After much search, I found an English translation of it here. It seems very hard to find a complete translation of the Lusiads in English anywhere!
-- Luís Sequeira 21:25, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  National motto 

message: The August FAC nomination was not successful.  The entire discussion and comments is archived at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Archived_nominations/Index/August_2004#Portugal
Keep up the good work - Taxman 17:15, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)
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I've proposed this article to be featured and some objections were made. Can we try to solve them? I'd love to see this article featured...
* Object. A few things: 
** Certainly hope not to offend, but there is a fair amount of language in there that appears to be from a non native English speaker. Nothing wrong with that, but it does need to be tightened up. 
** There appears to be some text missing in the 'Lusitania Romana' section, one of the sentences is incomplete 
** The intro needs to be reorganized to discuss the most important info about Portugal, and about half of what is in the intro now does not qualify for that. 
** The multiple main article links seem out of place. Those can all be linked in the history of Portugal or be put in a Portugal category. 
** Is Portugal really only an independent entity because one, unnamed guy decided he wanted to be and it was an opportune time while the other Iberian power groups were fighting? 
** - Taxman 13:03, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)
These are the objections made by Taxman. Is there any body with a fluent English that can correct the so-called parts needing "to be tightened up". Gameiro Pais 16:13, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article 

message: Just to state that there are some Portuguese sailors nominated in here. I don't know what this is but it seems interesting...--212.113.164.98 16:30, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portuguese people... 

message: I think we should do an article named Naming of Portugal and the leading section should have a resume of the History of the country.-Pedro 02:19, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good.  Lead on!  Is there enough information other than what is already on the Portugal page?  For me, the naming traces the history rather dramatically so that it is easy for me to place in my mind the rest of the items in the Portugal page. That vignette of the "naming" makes Portugal very, very unique among nations.  ---Rednblu 17:27, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: This article is very good!  One change I would suggest would be to remove the info. on the naming of Portugal to a section further down, perhaps under History.  The intro. should be short and sweet.  Nelson Ricardo 02:36, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC)
The city of Porto was called by the Moor (I don't know if it is was built by them) Bortugaal (Burtuqal in the map), which means in Arabic language Orange (whether the word is arabic I don't know).
http://www.hukam.net/maps/atlas-006/hispana_antica_47_1.gif
http://www.hukam.net/maps/atlas-006/hispana_antica_48_1.gif
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Hi (please sign your comments). That maps are very interresting. But that name is possibly from the previous roman name "Portus cale" or commonly spoken has "Portucale" or "Portugal". The also named Coimbra has "Qulumbryia". -Pedro 13:20, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree that the name is from "Portus cale", I am just saying that Burtugaal in Arabic sounds like orange, that's all! Today Portugal  is pronouced with a soft g (like the french pronouce r). --130.161.31.126 14:58, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming of Portugal

message: "In addition, Portugal contains several island territories in the Atlantic, including the Azores (Açores), Madeira, and Savage (Selvagens)"
Is this a mistake? Aren't the Savage part of the Madeira Autonomous Region? When we study the geography of Portugal we say that the Archipelago of Madeira is made of Madeira Island, Porto Santo Island, the Desert Islands (Desertas) and the Savage Islands (Selvagens). If we mention the Savages in the introduction we must mention the Deserts, on the Madeira Archipelago and the Ants Islets (Ilhéus das Formigas), on the Azores Archipelago.
I suggest we change the expression "island territories" to "archipelagos", with the Savages not being mentioned.--Joao Campos 16:30, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Savages

message: I think we should delete the hole paragraph of Fado (and use it to complete Fado), and leave only a reference to it. It Wikipedia's policy not to have things duplicated when there's absolutely no need for it. Comments? -- Marianocecowski 08:56, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fado 

message: "Portugal needs to advance structural reforms to boost the country's economic competitiveness." This doesn't sound very NPOV to me, anyone else? FrancisTyers 14:06, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economy 

message: in the article: Portugal claims Olivença, administrated by Spain, as part of its national territory. 
Earlier, I've edited that the country recognized that Olivenza is a Portuguese territory administrated by Spain (a court in Portugal said that, when pronoucing about illegal reconstruction by Spain on Portuguese National Heritage in Olivenza: the court said it has no power to "do" law in that territory because it was administrated by Spain though it was POort. territory). The current phrase is also correct. Another problem is that, there is no official border in that region in Portugal's official map. When I get some extra time I'll create a new map with this and other things (e.g.: the islands are not also shown in the current map). And considers Leixoes an important city, when it has only an important harbour, but it is only a village (or small town) from Matosinhos.Pedro 13:24, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Olivenza

message: Portugal declared independence from Kingdom of Leon in 23 of June 1128. In fact, some time before this date.
Portugal was independent when the Count of Portugal turned to be the king of Portugal - the year was 1139 (Till today there are many countries that are independent and have a prince, for example, as the head of State.)
The king of Leon and Castille officialy recognized Portugal as an independent country in 1143. THE REAL RECOGNION DATE! AND THE OFFICIAL INDEPENDENCE DATE THAT PORTUGAL USES!
The pope recognized Portugal as a full independent and cristian nation in 1179. What was a normal thing in the vaticam, because the independent countries MUST GIVE TO THE POPE GOODS, Portugal didn't in the beggining.
So, declaration of Independence: 1128 Recognition: 1143
1139??? 1179 ?!?!?!?!?!?! What?????????????? Never even heard of that dates, not even at history classes! Only when reading some history books.
:: I've always heard about it! 1943 is a simplification.
Explanations:
*1128: Afonso Henriques definetly defeats the mother - Batalha de São Mamede
*1139: Battle of Ourique Afonso Henriques acclaimed king
*1143: Santarem conquered to the Moors
*1174: Aragon recognizes Portugal as independent; marriage Sancho I with princess Dulce of Aragon
*1179: the Pope (the super power back then) recognizes Portugal as a kingdom
*only after this, when exactly i do not know, Castile recognizes Portugal
*see also Timeline of Portuguese history
*i hope this helped, Muriel
<BR>
There is a document. I think that is the Treaty of Zamora, that declares Portugal Independent. I dont know for sure if its that treaty. Altought the king of Leon was the same of castile, they were independet countries from each other. Like what happened to Portugal, the assimilation was slow.
Portugal was a rebel county, that declared independece, that's why the mother of the county of Portugal (now countess of Galicia) tried to regain the control of Portugal to Leon. You do not need a king to make a country independent, not even a pope to recognize, even in medieval europe.
User:PedroPVZ
Dear Pedro, I have to go now (going out...) but i promisse to discuss this with you properly. Stay in touch. If you like portuguese history, have a look on the portuguese kings: they need work. Cheers, Muriel, que apesar do nome esquesito é meio portuguesa :)
*Caro Pedro (vamos falar em inglês para os outros perceberem), i have two problems with the dates of our beloved country.
**Independence from Leon - i think it is also Castile 
**I fing very odd that Leon recognized Portugal so soon (four years) after the declaration of independence. 
*Do you have any reference for these things? I would like to discuss this further with you.
*Cheers, Muriel 10:20, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Independence of Portugal

message: It would be nice to put a complet map of Portugal with Azores, Madeira and the Savage and a reference to Olivença. The people from the islands find this map offensive and they are wright on their intents. They made to put their islands on the Euro banknotes and it also should be in a serious encyclopedia.Pedro 20:33, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Complet map of Portugal

message: Ignorance has limits. The Azores are not a dependency of Portugal, it is part of Portugal!Pedro 11:14, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: *question solved by someone.Pedro 13:11, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've uploaded a flag of CPLP that can be used to the "msg:CPLP" in in the articlePedro 23:30, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  can be seen in here: CPLPPedro 01:03, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  i've discovered and done it myself. Pedro 16:39, 4 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: The Azores is not a dependency

message: I'd like to see some references to Coimbra being the first capital of Portugal (I accept that the first university was in Lisbon)
:* Coimbra the first capital of Portugal?
:When Portugal was created, the border of Porgutal was from Rio Minho to Rio Douro, the capital was Guimarães. How could be Coimbra?
:I would like to see some references about that too.
::http://www.frommers.com/destinations/guimaraes/2670010001.html (by the wa,y typing 
               portugal "first capital" 
::into google brings up the Wikipedia article first.)  Brooklyn Nellie (Nricardo) 19:17, May 16, 2004 (UTC)
* Sorry Ricardo, but that article is full of non-sence. Henry was French? Independence from Spain??? I'm pretty sure that the 1st King deserves that until today people see him as a Hero and he his still very respected, he's our "king Arthur", there are too many legends sorrounding him. But he was not the real responsable for Portugal's independence.-Pedro 21:34, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: So what's the first capital of Portugal

message: Removed from the article:
:National motto: You are here, you are eating!(The Portuguese take great pride in their hospitality)
Please re-add, in case .. -- User:Docu
: lol. We have no motto. But that's true, even among ourselfs. I get really stressed sometimes, became I don't want, but people get offended, so I must eat. That's nice to talk on culture section! -- Pedro 22:48, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Motto

message: Does Bom or Boa mean "Good" in Portuguese? The city of Bombay, as we believe, was a corruption of "Good Bay" - Bom bay. Could someone clarify whether it is Bom or Boa? Thanks. Nichalp 20:51, Jun 15, 2004 (UTC)
* both! "Boa" is feminine. "Bom" is masculine. I've heard that also that bom bay means good bay. I've read that in a document. "Boa Baia" should be correct Portuguese because "baia" is feminine, but possibly to simplification (most languages havent masculine and feminine words), people only used the masculine -more common and universal: "Bom baia". The same happened in indonesia's "igreja português" the correct should be "igreja portuguesa" (portuguese church). Português (masculine) portuguesa (feminine). Sometimes when I heard people from East Asia and Timorese (non-native speakers) speaking, they speak the same way. -Pedro 21:56, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bom or Boa? 

message: Some areas in the article are unneeded (the exaggeration in Soccer, and in all musicians (even less known in Portugal, much less internationally) - Which can be boring if someone just wants the "essential guide to Portugal". I'll move many things to Culture of Portugal, it is the best to do. -Pedro 22:43, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: There are some exaggerations in more essentialareas: " During the 15th and 16th centuries, Portugal eclipsed most other nations in terms of economic, political, and cultural influence" Portugal came in from being a marginal polity to play a role comparable to that of Poland, but not in the league of Spanish economics, Ottoman and Habsburg politics or the cultural effect of the Tuscan Renaissance. This history lacks balance and perspective. Wetman 00:40, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exaggeration