Talk:History of crime fiction

message: This article was created wholly out of material from crime fiction when that article was refactored. A short introduction was created in crime fiction to point here. :ChrisG 01:05, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: [Untitled]

message: There is not enough informaction to warrant it. "Some detectives are women, some of them lesbians" is not significant enough IMHO, need more work and examples of fiction, it's importance, portrayal etc. Right now it seems out of place, just tacked on forcefully.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.67.201.162 (talk) 09:35, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: LGBT crime stories

message: The hard boiled section is written with enthusiasm and interest, but it's a bit sophomoric and off-target in places. There's rambling bits and some real puzzlers (a half paragraph on The Jungle and the lack of safety measures in the meat-packing industry, with a toss-off reference to Bovine spongiform encephalopathy?) that bloat the entry.
The bulleted list that starts off the section read like a how-to list and the breezy use of absolutes like "always wears a gun", "invariably asks for a downpayment", "turns out to be a heavy drinker"--true nine times out of ten, maybe, but not incontrovertible truths about the genre--really take the legitimacy of the article down several notches.
The quotes are good and, as I said, there's a lot of energy behind the entry. But it reads more like an essay or term paper to me than an overview of the hard boiled genre.
70.174.133.17 15:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hard boiled section - tolerable essay, bad encyclopedia entry 

message: Crime fiction has been around at least since Sophocles' Oedipus the King (c. 429 BCE), and is central to the history of literature. Examples include The Decameron (c. 1352), Hamlet (c. 1600), Moll Flanders (1722), Oliver Twist (1838), Crime and Punishment (1866), Thérèse Raquin (1867), The Trial (written 1914-15), and The Stranger (1942). Although not a professional detective, since he is a king, Oedipus is trying to find a killer and starts an investigation. "Crime fiction" is usually defined too narrowly, probably because critics still find a need to separate "highbrow" from "lowbrow" literature. Many writers, however, lack this need. Nobel Prize-winner Camus was influenced by James M. Cain (The Postman Always Rings Twice) when he wrote The Stranger; Umberto Eco has obvioulsy incorporated Sherlock Holmes into The Name of the Rose. If only fiction where the main character is a detective (police or private investigator) is "crime fiction", then a part of modern "crime fiction" isn't really "crime fiction" at all (Patricia Highsmith, Jim Thompson). And there are police investigators in Crime and Punishment and The Stranger. Shakespeare, Dickens, and Dostoyevsky wrote for the commercial market, and probably had no desire to distance themselves from their audience through defining their work as something different from popular genres. There is no other way to define "crime fiction" than as "fiction in which crime features more or less prominently". And there is no reason to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.206.27.131 (talk) 10:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You will need some reliable secondary sources to back up that claim if you want that information in the article. Also, technically speaking, Ciceros murder trial speeches are a lot closer to living up to the modern definition of "crime fiction" than any of the examples you listed (although I wouldn't in any way claim that they should be categorised as such). Most of the titles you list seems merely to be "literature in which crime features more or less prominently", and that is of course not enough to qualify them as "crime fiction". --Saddhiyama (talk) 12:08, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early crime fiction? 

message: I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
::This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
::#There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
::#It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
::#In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:32, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing POV tag with no active discussion per [[Template:POV]] 

message: In this article, I would like to know whether the name "Sturr" is correct. It may be "Surr". The text reads: "Early examples of crime stories include Thomas Skinner Sturr's anonymous Richmond, or stories in the life of a Bow Street officer (1827)..." 
Googling Thomas Skinner Sturr brings up many results but they seem to be copy-paste from this Wikipedia article. 
Googling Thomas Skinner Surr brings up results that include wikisource, UPenn, and others that seem more authoritative. 
If someone who knows how to verify this type of info could do so and make the correction (if necessary), that would be great. If the correct name is Surr, then it might also be worthwhile to mention that the name Sturr is incorrect (since it has been copied from wiki all over the web). I am not confident that I would do this correctly (this is my first comment on wiki) and I do not know what sources to check.
Thank you! RMW 2600:8801:1300:634:60DC:AB30:7041:126B (talk) 15:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  a name needs verification in source docs