Talk:Alan Jones (radio broadcaster)/Archive 1

message: This page has been established on Alan Jones' 62nd birthday. :-) Sources include his 2GB biography and an Australian Broadcasting Corporation analysis of his career. Peter Ellis 03:34, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment by Peter Ellis 

message: Come now, 165.228.129.12, his urging of residents to protest is fact not opinion. Kewpid 03:47, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sydney race riots 

message: Hello
I've added an information box at the bottom as part of the Wiki RL project. Would anybody here know, by chance, who succeeded Jones after he was dismissed from the Tigers in 1993? I've put down Pearce for 1994 but I know (at least, I think I do) that he wasn't appointed straight away. Any help would be great. Cheers
:Yes, it was Wayne Pearce according to http://www.nswrl.com.au/index.cgi?sID=35&det=1&intArticleID=7: "Junior took over from Alan Jones as Balmain coach in 1994 but with only a handful of top players they finished with the wooden spoon in his first year." Msmyrk 12:19, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia RL project 

message: Does anyone know what Jones' attitude towards methadone treatment is?
Sarah.
: Opposed. See cached copy of 15/9/2004 editorial here: "Harm minimisation is a policy, if you could call it that, where we just give in to the drug scourge and say well let's try to minimise the harm caused by drugs... Surely if we are losing nearly 8,000 Australians from drug related deaths in a little over four years, why are we giving out needles and methadone? The Federal government's committee on substance abuse said replace the methadone programs with rapid detoxification: subsidise the trials of naltrexone implants." --Calair 01:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jones and Methadone 

message: This article currently has no references. This is not good. Andjam 12:56, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: Hi, I'd just like to point out that at the moment that the article refers to "tapes leaked to Triple J" as happening in the late 1990s. As far as I am aware, this occurred in either 2004 or 2005, on JJJ's 'Hack' show. They were dubbed "The Closet Recordings of Alan Jones" and featured plenty of swearing by complaints by Jones, included his constant frustration with 'fucking dust in the studio'. So, unless anyone is aware of other tapes that were leaked in the late 90s, this date should be changed. Stuart mcmillen 01:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Triple J tapes 

message: In 1990-1993 and 1995-1997 Jones was awarded, by the radio industry, the title Australian Radio Talk Personality of the Year. That's verbatim from his website bio, but 'the radio industry' could do with explanation - presumably this refers to some specific industry body? 
I reworded some material about other people involved with the show, but I'm not sure this is really notable; if it is, it should probably go to a separate section on the show's format rather than sitting in a chronology. --Calair 02:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tidying 

message: Is the Snowy Mountains Scheme sale phone-poll notable enough to warrant inclusion? A phone-poll on a talk back radio show seems pretty ordinary. Ashmoo 02:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. --Calair 05:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I disagee. the anecdote illustrates Jones's methodology Albatross2147 11:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snowy Mountains phone-poll 

message: anyone who shows up here, today tonight just ran a story on Alan jones. they identified that the majority of Alan Jones listeners are A)liberal, b)religeous, c)zombies who do anything he says. I know that they were probably just trying to knock down CH9, but i think i'll track down the video and add it as a reference. (go pies) MichaelBillington 08:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Today tonight story 

message: I just read this article and it seems so one sided.  Has no one even bothered to mention Jones GOOD side??  His high ratings and the help he has done in the community??  5 pages of criticism hardly rates as an accurate point of view.  Disappointing.Darrenss 21:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Darrenss, if you want to research and find cited references to nice things about Alan Jones, then you are free to do so. However, a controversial radio presenter is always going to create controversy, especially one who has a criminal record and was found guilty by a government agency of "cash for comment".124.168.21.24 00:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Darrenss, you make some valid comments, if you feel so strongly about the imbalance of this article there is nothing stopping you adding positive and verified info about Jones. I believe he is an ambivalent character, he has done some good things but also some quite bad. Michellecrisp 02:18, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: It would certainly be nice to see some sourced figures added to the article, to the point where it states he "achieved the largest breakfast audience and also the largest radio audience in Australia." --Stormie 01:56, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I would not call 2GB (where Jones is a part owner) a totally objective reference. and media man seems to be a bit of a blog. WP:RS The criminal issue has been discussed before, he does have a criminal record http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1928912.htm (you can be a criminal and not go to jail). Michellecrisp 04:28, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Darrenss - as stated by numerous people, if you feel the article is lacking balance, then feel free to add your bit to it - after all, you have the references handy. I would suggest that you leave the question of his conviction (and hence 'criminality') under the Children (Criminal Proceedings) Act 1987 alone, or at least for another time, to avoid being caught up in a revert war.PalawanOz 04:36, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Darrenss, ask any lawyer, a criminal record's "severity" is not measured by the length of the sentence, sentencing is not consistent as the media always points out, for example, Matthew Newton received no jail term but had a conviction recorded, yet the media pointed out that non celebrities have received jail sentences for very similar offences. The judge in Jones cases had the discretion not to record a conviction, but the fact the judge did, he thought that was punishment enough. The fact is Jones has a criminal record, which is something asked in visa applications and immigration entry cards, that's something that has been pointed out that Jones' conviction could severely limit his overseas travel. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21594138-2702,00.html  I don't know why you deny this. Michellecrisp 07:28, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Darrenss - if it was slanderous and/or defamatory, why wasn't Chris Masters sued as such? Perhaps AJ couldnt afford the lawyer? I think not... Perhaps the reason was that for it to be slander (or more correctly in this case - libel), it needs to be untrue. PalawanOz 10:18, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said PalawanOz. as my lawyer friend said the truth is an acceptable defence to defamation in Australian courts. So if the Chris Masters book contained lies, it would be easily defamatory. Given that it was a top selling hardcover book and that extracts were published in the Sydney Morning Herald a lot of people know about the more "unsavoury" aspects of Jones' life. Yes this may be potentially damaging to Jones' reputation but it's considered the truth. Michellecrisp 11:51, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually Newton successfully appealed, in what this article calls "softest possible treatment" http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,10221,22092925-10229,00.html?from=public_rss I'll have to update his Wikipedia article! Michellecrisp 12:02, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text:  Even if it could be shown that Masters' material was false, it might take some work to establish that identifying Jones as homosexual had harmed his reputation. Homosexuality is legal in Australia, it's not a topic that Jones has ever taken a public stand on AFAICT, and the rumours about Jones were in heavy circulation long before Jonestown came out - as Masters put it, "I am hardly alone in noting that Jones appears to be homosexual". (See e.g. John Laws' rather pointed remarks about Jones and David Flint on Enough Rope a couple of years back; he makes Jonestown look friendly by comparison.) But I'm not a lawyer. --Calair 12:25, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Darrenss - you have shown that you know how to edit a page by your entries here. I suggest you now "put up or shut up" - make the additions you want to make to the main page, no-one is stopping you, nor is anyone disagreeing with your right to do so, nor is anyone denying that there are probably some very good things that he has done. Oh - and as an aside... controversial does not equal defamatory.PalawanOz 22:13, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed with PalawanOz, talk pages are not for general discussion on the topic but exist for improvement of the article, you just can't keep on discussing perceived faults without changing them. I think the WP:BOLD principle applies here. The whole article is not scoped from one book, that is an exaggeration, it has multiple sources, whether or not you like it, Jones has attracted negative attention from a variety of sources, dare I say, it has outweighed his "good deeds". Michellecrisp 00:30, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Darrenss, you haven't offended me, you've made some valid points but as everyone has said, you're welcome to add "positive" info on Jones if you wish. Wikipedia relies on consensus, and it appears the consensus here is that appropriate negative material on Jones should be included. Michellecrisp 01:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are we disputing the facts here? The Broadcast Authority's finding that Jones incited violence? Or Jones' criminal record? Is anyone disputing these facts? Or is it a case that these are unsavory facts that Jones would prefer were swept under the carpet and hidden from public knowledge? 203.217.41.202 22:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article neutral?? 

message: This page has been moved from "Alan Jones (radio)" to "Alan Jones (radio broadcaster)" as Alan Jones is not a type of radio but rather a radio broadcaster. -- Ianblair23 (talk) 07:18, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page move 

message: "In an appearance on the ABC's Enough Rope, John Laws accused Jones of placing pressure on Prime Minister John Howard to keep Flint as head of the ABA, made comments that many viewers took to imply a sexual relationship between Jones and Flint (see transcript), and broadly hinted that Jones was homosexual like Flint, who is openly gay." According to his page, David Flint is out now, but was he openly gay at the time of Laws' appearance on 'Rope'? My fuzzy recollection was that there were a lot of insinuations going around, particularly from Laws, but nothing definite back then. If Flint wasn't out at the time, this bit should probably be clarified. --Calair 13:21, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Flint 

message: Background discussion on this topic here. Tony 13:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  useful link 

message: Would someone please create an article for Jonestown: The Power and the Myth of Alan Jones?,, Thanks, Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 07:35, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article request 

message: Folks, can we please have a discussion on here re the use of the somewhat amusing, but vaguely negative image of Jones standing in front of a sign saying "Count" (where he is blocking one letter)... no need for an edit war on this one... My view - it's a laugh, but not appropriate as it is somewhat biased. PalawanOz 08:38, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The image looks to me to be a copyright violation and has been listed at WP:PUI. I think it will likely be deleted in a few days, which should resolve the issue. Videmus Omnia  Talk  13:22, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This one probably will, yes - but this image pops up fairly regularly I have noticed (under various names) - so the question really applies to other variants of this image PalawanOz 14:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just flag them as copyvio whenever they pop up - if the same uploader is adding them, report them WP:AIV for uploads of copyright violations, which is blockable behavior. Videmus Omnia  Talk  14:30, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I laughed the first time somebody sent it to me (it's been circulating for years), and I applaud the cunning of the photographer who lined up that shot in the first place, but it's a bit puerile for Wikipedia. In any case, copyvio settles the issue; it's obviously a scan (probably from a newspaper) rather than an original, which makes it very unlikely that a Wikipedia editor has permission to release it. --Calair 01:01, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of image with amusing words 

message: It's February. I believe a verdict will be reached some time this month as to whether Alan Jones retains his criminal status, or if his appeal is successful and he gets it overturned. Keep an eye on the news this month regarding this one. Lester 11:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Verdict just handed down. Jones loses his appeal, and his criminal record stays. The comment from his lawyer that Jones will appeal the fine of $1000 seems trivial, considering that amount of money is trivial money to Jones, and I wonder if the monetary appeal is even worthy of inclusion in the article. It may have just been saving face by lawyers. What would sting Jones is not the fine, but the conviction. Lester 00:19, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And now the SMH reports that the conviction has been quashed, apparently by the same judge who upheld it in February. I'm confused. --144.53.251.2 (talk) 00:39, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is unusual. I will add the 'quashing' to the article.Lester 00:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criminality verdict soon 

message: I notice someone else recently added the criminal tag which produces a Criminal Infobox on the right of page >>Diff<<. At first I thought it was a bit harsh. However, this tag exists on most other Australians who have a wiki article + a criminal record. Alan Jones has a criminal record. Is there any reason why Alan Jones should not have such an infobox? Lester 01:08, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Criminal Infobox

message: While I recognise of most of these events WP:BLP require them to be supported with reliable sources, Gnangarra 14:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Some referenes that may assist with details about Alan Jones: ABC Four Corners chronology and SMH feature. Lester 11:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy section 

message: Hi, I don't know how to reinstate an older version - help very much appreciated. I am sure Alan Jones did not set up a brothell in Uganda... and other little strange things.
Thanks, schomynv  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.73.58.232 (talk) 01:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: removed clause. -- Mattinbgn\talk 01:42, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  vandalism 

message: I believe the chaff bag controversy needs to go in, especially as Alan Jones added to it yesterday. It's a significant part of Australian history for women at least.
Here is Alan yesterday on women (citing PM & Lord Mayor) "destroying the joint": http://www.news.com.au/national/alan-jones-women-are-destroying-the-joint/story-fndo4eg9-1226462326339?fb_action_ids=10151064315864915&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582
His initial comments on Julia Gillard chaff bags and the sea go back to the 29th June 2011 and they are missing.
Here is Anne Summers yesterday on sex discrimination of the prime minister:
http://m.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/conspiracy-of-silence-lets-persecution-of-pm-fester-20120831-255tt.html
This man is repeatedly misogynistic, it is part of his character.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.159.134.110 (talk) 00:34, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Broadcasting bigotry is what he gets paid for. It's hard to believe that any rational adult could truly believe the tripe he presents, so whether he's truly misogynistic is hard to tell. I'm always reluctant to give bullshit material like that more "airplay". What we could report is a description of his behaviour plus commentary from a reliable source, such as Mediawatch, if such commentary existed. HiLo48 (talk) 05:13, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Media Watch stories on chaff bag - www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3551607.htm, www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3272172.htm 59.167.126.21 (talk) 10:58, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attacks on Prime Minister Julia Gillard 

message: In the political lobbying section AJ is described as "A former candidate for Liberal Party of Australia preselection". That's true but I think it would be better to describe him as "A former candidate for the Liberal Party" or something like that. As it is now, it almost suggests he was unsuccessful in his preselection attempts. 
"This time the ALP candidate was returned with an even greater majority despite the absence, on this occasion, of a Gay Liberation and another three conservative party and independent candidates." 
I think I understand what this is getting at although I'm not sure the absence of a Gay Lib candidate would make an increased ALP vote surprising (I would have thought people whol voted for the Gay Lib candidate at the byelection would more likely switch to Labor at the GE. Personally I think it's enough to say that the ALP increased its majority at the general elections. 
In the part about North Sydney I propose the addition of unsuccessful so it reads "meanwhile unsuccessfully standing for preselection for the Federal seat of North Sydney." I understand he lost that one although I'm not really sure. 
In the part re Eden Monaro ("Later that year, another parent at Kings, Doug Anthony, leader of the Country Party (now the National Party of Australia) in the Australian Parliament, offered Jones a position with the party in Canberra. The next year, he sought party preselection as the candidate for the parliamentary seat of Eden-Monaro, but he was unsuccessful at the election.") I propose adding "National" just before party preselection since next para switches to his involvement as a Lib and this might ease any confusion. 
Happy to discuss before changing anything. As I said, my concern at this stage is just readability. Cheers. Tigerman2005 (talk) 04:12, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  A few minor and (I hope!) non-controversial changes 

message: I'm the first to say that these comments are repulsive, but right now they are not encyclopedic. Wikipedia is not news (see Wikipedia:NOT#NEWS), and unless these comments have an enduring impact they belong in a newspaper rather than an encyclopedia. If they receive widespread criticism over the next few days, lead to a change in media policy or lead to Alan Jones being suspended etc then it is appropriate to insert them (with proper sourcing and a reference to their impact), but currently this belongs in a newspaper rather than an encyclopedia. Guycalledryan (talk) 00:10, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree with you. His comments will mostly be reinforcing opinions already cast in stone about the man. Let's await developments. The one possible concrete thing so far is "A list of advertisers on 2GB was being circulated, with calls for those companies to boycott the Jones show or 2GB altogether if he is not removed or disciplined" from here. But again, we should probably wait and watch. HiLo48 (talk) 01:43, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they will have 'enduring impact'. I'm happy to wait a while.  Regards, Ariconte (talk) 01:50, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it has begun. While the comments from ALP figures can't really carry much weight (they hate him anyway), those from Turnbull and the Greens mean a lot more. HiLo48 (talk) 01:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: When Andrew Bolt says that Alan Jones has gone too far, you know things are bad.  .  -- Chuq (talk) 02:07, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

text: He has apologised. Not sure whether this makes it more significant or not. HiLo48 (talk) 03:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's scarely most peoples definition of an apology, couched as it is in the normal Jones apology obfuscation. And of course, the original remark wasn't made by him, merely repeated by him. Ha!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkTB (talk • contribs) 06:41, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  The very fact that you're disrespecting his apology says to me that many others will be of a similar view.  I also wondered what was the value or point of saying he was repeating someone else's words - when he was claiming to be apologising without qualification.  Whether he coined the expression or copied it is absolutely immaterial to the issue, and he knows that.  I guess it's his way of saying "It's not just me, others are saying it too, so don't single me out".  His fawning supporters will buy that, because he can do no wrong, in their eyes.  Anybody else will see it for what it is.  --  Jack of Oz [Talk] 06:53, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure there are too many "fawning supporters". Just popped in to see what had popped up. This article is mainly an attack piece on Alan Jones, not a biographical article. --Pete (talk) 02:09, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  That may be true.  The last bit.  But if you really believe he doesn't have any fawning supporters, then you don't know some of the people I've talked to.  There's virtually nothing he could ever do that would be so bad that it'd make them stop believing whatever comes out of his mouth is Holy Writ.  And if he does do or say something really bad such as the current incident, then blathers his way through some half-baked apology, well, that just proves what a wonderful person he is, because it takes a big man to say sorry.  Oh Alan, how wonderful you are!  Stay brave and true!  Yeah, right.  --  Jack of Oz [Talk] 08:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: ABC radio today played some comments from some of his fawning callers this morning. Jack, it's as if you wrote the script. HiLo48 (talk) 08:14, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, perhaps I should write in bigger print from now on. I'm not sure there are too many "fawning supporters". Of course there are some, but are they as numerous as (say) Rush Limbaugh's infamous dittoheads? But that's beside the point. This article doesn't seem to provide a balanced NPOV treatment of the subject. --Pete (talk) 08:31, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought he was the highest rating breakfast announcer in Sydney. That says that there's a lot of fawning, sadly. HiLo48 (talk) 09:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What percentage does your source say are "fawners"? Just out of interest. --Pete (talk) 09:36, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent Comments 

message: In the paragraph cocerning Julia Gillard under Controversy, "insincere" is spelled incorrectly as "incencere".
58.172.153.50 (talk) 05:33, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: ...by User:Porturology. Dru of Id (talk) 07:30, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 1 October 2012 

message: If anyone knows what the close paraphrasing referred to at the top of the article is, could you please remove it? Actual close paraphrasing is usually a copyright violation. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 17:00, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you also deal with the other stuff using the Four Corners source? I noticed some of the earlier stuff you dealt with used this source and I'm concerned whoever used this source unfortunately had a poor understanding or simply didn't not care about close paraphrasing and copyvio issues, as both sections in the defamation section seem to share a similar problem. (The last sentence in David Parker and the entire sentence in Don Mackay are nearly word for word.) I don't feel I have enough experience to be able to deal with it myself beyond simply deleting the info.  Nil Einne (talk) 00:57, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually looking more closely all remaining sections seem to have similar issues. The first one about Charles Perkins and Jones is nearly word for word (some change in tenses and perhaps he with names or vice versa), a lot of it is quotes but I believe that level of similarity outside the quotes is generally considered problematic. The two paragraphs under 'Adverse court and tribunal findings' without a subheading changed a bit more, but still seem fairly similar, I'm not sure that they are problematic but checking from a more experience eye would help. Given that much of this stuff seems to have come after you dealt with the earlier issues, perhaps a word with whoever is adding it would help. Nil Einne (talk) 01:16, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Close paraphrasing 

message: I suggest that the section Died of Shame controversy should be changed to Died of shame controversy or "Died of shame" controversy to comply with MOS guidelines. Ie "shame" is lower case (MOS:CAPS) and "Died of shame" is either italized (WP:ITALIC#Words as words) or surrounded by quotation marks (MOS:QUOTEMARKS). 203.176.108.99 (talk) 02:44, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Died of Shame controversy" - MOS