Talk:Mission burrito

message: This article seems kind of silly and overblown.  There is really no area where it states the difference between a burrito and a San Francisco burrito?  What about a brurrito in Los Angeles or San Diego??   This sounds like a tourist ploy, insisting that San Francisco has a burrito that is somehow more historical than anything burrito in Los Angeles, Texas, or even Mexico.    Im sorry but this sounds like an attempt at advertisement and embellished-up history.  It feels like patrons of certain places have decided to enter in on the 'creation' debate and use this forum for advertising a favored taqueria.  Either way, the article is WAY too long considering its topic.   It needs to be thinned out and freed of unnecessary fluff.  Does burrito production in San Francisco really differ from that anywhere else...??  Or is it implied that the 'assembly line' style of making a burrito was invented in San Francisco??   Come on.   Thanks.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.179.219.251 (talk) 21:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This article is ridiculous and I can't imagine how it satisfies Wikipedia:Notability. There is essentially a single source that is cited in an attempt to establish why the "San Francisco Burrito" is distinct from just a plain old burrito and it's a New Yorker article that I'd say is not reliable. It's hardly scholarship or news, it's really more of a creative non-fiction piece which is largely humorous in tone. Not to mention that the justification this article gives for the SF burrito's uniqueness is incredibly weak: "the amount of rice and other side dishes included in the package and ... size." Give me a break. Does anyone think if someone is served a burrito in Chicago that is very large, has a lot of rice, and comes with chips and salsa they'd think of it as "San Francisco style"? It's obvious that someone has spent a lot of effort on this page, so I feel bad, but I think this article should be deleted or at the very least merged with burrito. DanyaRomulus (talk) 18:32, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It’s clear you have never had a burrito in the Bay Area. —Wiki Wikardo 21:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: One, you're wrong, because I grew up in the Bay Area. Two, it's a terrible standard of notability to say, "if you had personally experienced the awesomeness of this, THEN you would realize why it is worthy of being included in an encyclopedia." Three, once again, this article's defenders only resort to geographic bias and circuitous notability claims...instead of insulting me (incorrectly) for something irrelevent, you could actually take the time to explain to me what is different about the San Francisco burrito from the standard burrito, which no one, including the article, has yet been able to do. DanyaRomulus (talk) 13:50, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  San Francisco burritos are pure crap.  San Diego burritos are the real deal and are nothing like the pathetic excuses that pass for burritos in San Francisco  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.38.46.241 (talk) 04:42, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Questioning relevance

message: I was the original author of the article. I have very much appreciated all the work done on it by others, as well, in particular the noble efforts of Viriditas. This page has survived several attempts to merge it because a careful reading will demonstrate that its claims of a unique local history of burrito production are supported by a number of sources cited in the article, not simply the New Yorker article. Although it's worth stating that Calvin Trillin is a notable and well-loved food writer and has credibility to spare. 
This assembly method and the style of burrito have spread widely over the last ten years, but yes, this particular style of burrito and the means of producing it--the combination of elements and the way the taquerias were set up--existed first in San Francisco. As the article explains, many of the chains seen elsewhere who make this kind of burrito can be directly traced back to origins in San Francisco (for instance, all three major Boston burrito chains, and Chipotle). If someone eats a burrito like this in Chicago (by, say, going to Chipotle) their ignorance of the food's origins would not mean that the food did not originate in San Francisco. In fact, your example would be all the better argument for the existence of this page, which would school them in burrito history. 
Though it is not evidence that can be easily cited in an article like this, when I wanted to check my own judgment about the worthiness of the topic, one of the things I did was to go to Chowhound, a widely used food forum now housed within chow.com, and look up postings about burritos in its various cities. As I knew from when I moved to other cities from San Francisco, San Francisco exiles (or even former visitors to San FRancisco) regularly post plaintive pleas for help in finding the kinds of burritos they had grown to love in San Francisco. Thus, many cities' forums that are not San Francisco had people asking where they could find San Francisco-style or Mission-style burritos, for instance, 
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/563861
Of note, I did not title this page "Mission-style" burritos because of the likelihood of confusion to people outside of San Francisco who would not know the Mission as a specific neighborhood in San Francisco. But the common use of this phrase in discussion forums around the country again emphasizes the very specific origins of this style.
Though unfortunately some of the following google searches have multiple duplicate posts because of the set-up of chow.com, in sum I believe they readily make the point that this is an accepted category of burrito, to which lovers of burritos can refer and find others who understand their reference.
# Site: Chow.com, "San Francisco burrito" 
# Site: Chow.com, "San Francisco" burrito  (This search reveals how many people are also looking for "California-style" or San Diego-style burritos when visiting the Bay Area, where they are hard to find.)
# Site: Chow.com, "Mission-style" burrito 
In contrast, the larger burrito article explains the overall concept of a burrito, which did _not_ start in San Francisco, and variations on the theme that exist in other regions. The San Francisco content would either have to be eliminated (for which I think there is no justification) or would overwhelm the rest of the burrito page. 
I thank you for your attention to this page but respectfully disagree with your conclusions. I believe that a more thorough examination of burrito history and sociology justify the page's existence. I appreciate the continued attentions of other burrito scholars to the project of further improving this page.
Joewright (talk) 15:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Defending relevance

message: Anyone got a recipe? Is it relevant to include it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.65.217.11 (talk) 17:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is relevant as long as it is incorporated into the prose, particuarly into the production section. There is a lot of room for expansion. —Viriditas | Talk 05:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Recipe

message: does the tortilla really have been steamed to be a san francisco burrito? i've eaten many that were grilled and actually prefer it..  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.182.30.150 (talk) 19:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Production

message: Then it wouldn't be a S.F. burrito... The steaming stretches the tortilla elastic so it can hold a lot of stuff. A grilled one would make it somewhat stiff and wouldn't be as effective. (e.g. soft taco to crunchy taco).  I grew up one block from one of the originators of the S.F. burrito-La Cumbre.  The huge burritos were known as 'super burritos,' and in the 80s they usually cost 4-5 bucks (7 nowadays).  At the time I took these for granted not knowing that this was an actual San Francisco-based food tradition that was taking place.  It was dinner and lunch during my college years.  What was described on how to eat this massive burrito is actually very accurate, because that's how I ate it.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.208.21 (talk • contribs) 18:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The jury is still out on the grilled vs. steaming technique.  The SF burrito makes use of both, however your point about La Cumbre is taken, as they are known for steaming not grilling.  There are several different grilling methods. Taqueria Cancún probably has the most notable grilling technique. Viriditas (talk) 03:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I prefer the steamed tortilla method -I've always had it that way since I had my first one in 1980.  I've noticed that it's hard to find some of these taquerias in Union City 30 miles from San Francisco. I might have to pay 5 dollars on the train to cross the Bay to get to one of these restaurants or head out to Oakland's Fruitvale district where they have such places.  My favorite burrito place happens to be Pancho Villa on 16th & Valencia - it's still there after 20 plus years with the long lines.   There was also another I frequented on occasion which is half a block from AT&T Park -it's still  a hole in the wall - they have been there since 1985. Neither has changed much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.149.45 (talk • contribs) 04:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you tried El Burrito Supremo in Union City?  I saw it listed on burritohpile.com.  Your best bet is to use a website like that.  If you are in Union City, wouldn't Fremont be closer?  Try this. They recommend Los Cabos.  Viriditas (talk) 09:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I know where that is. That's in a strip mall with other ethnic businesses (Pakistani/Indian, Filipino, Chinese, Japanese, Korean). LOL - i will definitely check it out - thanks for the tip.
20:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Elasticity

message: What is with the Imitators and descendants section? In each of SF's neighborhoods, some food involves wrapping a tortilla around something? actually that is only true in the mission. the chinese and japanese do not wrap a tortilla around anything, the russians certainly don't do it, and there are no other ethnic groups represented by a neighborhood. what an annoying comment. Zmbe (talk) 19:40, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch.  That particular aspect isn't supported by the sources, and I'm combing through the previous versions to find a source that supports the material written by the original author.  I'll tag it for citation now, but if nothing turns up soon, I'll remove it. Viriditas (talk) 02:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Imitators...

message: This section is unsourced and is no longer about common burrito fillings.  An editor just added "ojos", which are not as common, and rarely (if ever) used in San Francisco burritos; they are actually used in tacos.  Viriditas (talk) 11:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meat fillings 

message: I would suggest that due to the huge controversy and strong opinions this section be restricted to taquerias notable for slightly more objective reasons. Including La Faro due to their supposed development of the super burrito is sourceable. Including La Taqueria, which is notably very controversial due to their lack of rice and higher-than-average prices, probably isn't a good idea. Even with individual articles the objective ratings are too inconsistent to merit inclusion based on one source alone. If a taqueria is to be included due to sheer popularity I would suggest that this be based on consistent, long-term acclaim: e.g. Taqueria Can-Cun, though it has detractors, has been  voted the San Francisco Bay Guardian's Best of the Bay for nine out of the past ten years. This would thus be indicative of lasting, widespread (as the award is based on reader votes) popularity. 69.181.55.239 (talk) 23:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but I'm going to assume that you are.  Arguing against La Taqueria cannot be taken seriously, as it is considered one of the best examples of the "San Francisco burrito" style and there are multiple sources available.  New additions, of course, are always welcome, and we are in agreement on  Taqueria Cancun; it should be added. Viriditas (talk) 11:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I agree, La Taqueria is one of the originals, been around since the 1970's, and it's packed all day, every day (i grew up on their burritos), not to mention their wall is covered with awards too.  It would be wrong to not include it.  It has gotten pretty expensive unfortunately, but it's still worth it.  I actually prefer their style of burritos, with no rice (there are quite a few places which seem to load it up with rice, and then skimp on the rest).67.101.34.117 (talk) 15:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable taquerias 

message: I LOVE EATING FOIL.
All the burritos in the article are wrapped in foil and do not show the actual burrito.
Is the San Fransisco style burrito strictly for robot consumption?
Skooma2112 (talk) 04:02, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You know what?  You are absolutely right.  I'm in the process of uploading additional images. Viriditas (talk) 09:08, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Heh! That's pretty funny!  Good observation Skooma. --MPerel  00:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I wish we had more comedic criticism.  It's a great way to make a point. Viriditas (talk) 09:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: The data is easily available.  Last time I checked there were 100 entries. Viriditas (talk) 11:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of San Francisco taquerias 

message: As an addendum to an earlier comment I posted this year. I've had both living in the Mission for over 20 years. I prefer mine steamed, because it doesn't break apart.  Come
to think about it, I've had one as big as my forearm - and had to cut in half (half for
dinner and half for lunch).  Once you eat one of these - there's no need to eat another meal for the rest of the day.
20:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Response to grilled or steamed 

message: ::I did not title this page "Mission-style" burritos because of the likelihood of confusion to people outside of San Francisco
:Doesn’t matter; one visit to the page should get them schooled. Why so reluctant to assert West Coast hegemony? San Francisco burrito is a great redirect, but common usage dictates that leaving the article there is OR. People may not know Greenwich is a section of London, but you wouldn't move the article to “London Mean Time.” Yes, it is from San Francisco, too, but that’s not what it’s most often called. —Wiki Wikardo 21:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If nobody objects, I’m about to be bold + move this to Mission-style burrito. Yeah, OK, maybe no one outside the City knows where the Mission is, but I bet few people know where, exactly, Champagne is. Still, I never hear no one call it “France-style bubbly wine.” —Wiki Wikardo 08:54, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Please stop trolling.  The page is appropriately titled.  I do not support your proposed move. Viriditas (talk) 09:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: wtf… It’s not “trolling” because you disagree. —Wiki Wikardo 11:30, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree with what?  Your trolling? Viriditas (talk) 12:52, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi I don't have a dog in this fight. I just have questions. What is the evidence for one way or the other? What are the key sources of the definition - do they use 'mission burrito' or 'san francisco burrito'? Lets remember to be civil - and not make accusations of trolling plz. This has nothing to do with whether people know where the mission is, and nothing to do with Champagne. It's about the burritos folks. lets not forget the burritos. I could do with one just about now... --Karl.brown (talk) 00:31, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What's wrong with the current title? Viriditas (talk) 07:34, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You yourself seemed to imply Mission-style burrito is the more common nomenclature. I don’t know if a Google Test will solve this or not, but it also seems that way to me—anyone who’s eaten one, knows about them, asking about them, etc., is more likely to refer to a “Mission burrito.” —Wiki Wikardo 20:26, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I appear to have been mistaken about who it was that decided to name this page. That said, my point still stands. —Wiki Wikardo 23:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page name 

message: What does  add to the article? It's a fun and whimsical passage, but it seems like an awfully long quotation if all it's doing is illustrating that someone once wrote a short story about Mission burritos. And the author doesn't really seem notable either. Ibadibam (talk) 23:19, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: only for whimsy.. Feel free to shorten or eliminate - but i do think its useful to retain the ref to that story, as an example of fiction inspired by the mission burrito - would be good to add other examples as well... --Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 03:13, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alameda-Weehawken Burrito Tunnel 

message: If anybody is familiar with how the burritos are made in San Francisco, does grilling occur after the burrito is assembled? The alternative reading is that the tortillas are sometimes grilled prior to adding ingredients and folding the tortilla, which seems like it would make them brittle. I've eaten at restaurants that grill the assembled burrito, but those were outside California. Heaviside glow (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Alternative reading of what? I can't find a passage in the article that discusses grilling. Ibadibam (talk) 21:10, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources (and this talk page). In fact, some sources discuss the Wikipedia article, insofar as there was a debate about grilling vs steaming. But I think that there is confusion about when the grilling occurs. Heaviside glow (talk) 21:51, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If the sources are unclear and divided, it sounds like we should continue to omit grilling from this article. Ibadibam (talk) 18:32, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grilling 

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