Talk:List of stage names

message: This article needs splitting, genres (stage and screen acting) where stage names are notable, others (e.g. hip-hop / rap) where they are the norm. There's no real point mixing the hundreds of rappers called "DJ foo" with the more unusual examples such as Herbert Charles Angelo Kuchacevich ze Schluderpacheru, aka Herbert Lom. Guy (Help!) 19:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs splitting 

message: I question the inclusion of Bruno Walter's name here.  He was born plain "Bruno Schlesinger", without a middle name.  It's become the received wisdom that Walter was his middle name, and that he simply dropped the Schlesinger, making his new name "Bruno Walter".  This is wrong.  He adopted Walter because of his admiration of characters such as Walther von Stolzing in "The Mastersingers of Nuremberg" and the real-life Walther von der Vogelweide.  True, he started using "Bruno Walter" unofficially, so at that point it would have accurately described as a stage name; but in 1911 he legally changed his name from Bruno Schlesinger to Bruno Walter, thus it was no longer a stage name.  --  JackofOz (talk) 01:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you could put a comment to that effect beside his entry, as has been done with Elton John. Ozzieboy (talk) 06:58, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bruno Walter

message: i generally have no problem with redlinks in articles (particularly since in many/most instances it just means an article should exist but just hasn't yet been created).  however, in a list of "notable" stage names, it would seem logical (to me anyway) that IF the person is truly notable, he/she should have her/his own article prior to populating this list.  i'll wait for a couple days prior to proceeding.--71.183.238.134 (talk) 22:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Appears to have been done a while ago. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 17:05, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  proposal to remove all redlinked entries on this list 

message: I made some entries under an IP as I had forgotten to log in. Sorry. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 17:05, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Note

message: Actor Robert Cummings' name, which had previously been removed, was re-added by a well-intentioned editor. However the name doesn't qualify as the list clearly does not include: "People whose main forename happens not to be the first one (such as Paul McCartney and Marie Osmond) are not listed here—these are their real names, not stage names". If the name Robert did not appear at all in his birth name or if his original surname was different, even by a letter or two, then he could be included. But that is not the case. I have left an explanation on the editor in question's page, so there should be no repetition of this good-faith mistake. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 19:05, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Bob Cummings]]

message: I've removed Eddie Vedder from this list, as I don't think he can reasonably be considered to be using a stage name.  The "real" name given for him, Edward Louis Severson, III, was his name at birth but he did not know this himself until his late teens.  His parents divorced when he was a baby and his mother remarried, and he was raised as Edward "Eddie" Mueller, Mueller being his stepfather's surname.  After his mother and stepfather divorced and he learned the truth about his paternity, he took on his mother's maiden name, Vedder.  This was years before he began performing publicly as a musician, so his name change had nothing to do with his career. CKarnstein (talk) 19:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Eddie Vedder]]

message: Rms125a@hotmail.com, I notice you have removed Eva Maler from this list for being a writer.  I am indifferent and am not going to reinstate her, as I have not heard of her.  However, she seems to have done some acting etc, according to the Simple Wiki page about her.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.154.116 (talk) 00:04, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Eva Maler]]

message: I've removed Lucy Lawless from this list.  Lawless was her ex-husband's last name (she used it long before she got into performing).  LizFL (talk) 21:05, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Lucy Lawless]]

message: I've removed Jeri Ryan from this list. Ryan was her ex-husband's last name.  It's not a stage name per se.  LizFL (talk) 11:27, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Jeri Ryan]]

message: Rv French Stewart -- does not qualify simply for using his middle name as his professional name (as per rules at beginning of article). Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 20:12, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[French Stewart]]

message: Loretta Lynn legally adopted her name, through marriage, before she entered the entertainment industry. Her birth-name was Loretta Webb; she married Oliver V. Lynn in 1946, and so became "Loretta Lynn" legally. Under the definitions of "stage name" at the head of the Wikipedia article, her name does not belong in the list. Bhogdue (talk) 06:00, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are right about Lynn being her husband's surname. For some reason I thought her husband's surname was "Mooney" (which turns out to have been one of his akas) and that Lynn was her middle name. I was mistaken and have restored your edit. That's why pencils have erasers I guess (oops I'm dating myself) and why we have discussion pages. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 12:30, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loretta Lynn, American singer/songwriter 

message: :: Virginia Gregg rv (no evidence of birth surname "Burket" based on parents' names and census records at www.ancestry.com). Quis separabit? 22:13, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Virginia Gregg]]

message: Can I get some clarification on how the exclusions are applied?
* The last exclusion is "People known by a single name that is one of their legal names", which seems fairly broad. But the only example given is Björk, who has the additional circumstance of coming from a culture in which surnames are not commonly used. Is this an implied requirement of this exclusion? If so, perhaps it could be made more explicit. If not, shouldn't Madonna (Madonna Louise Ciccone), Aaliyah (Aaliyah Dana Haughton), Shakira (Shakira Isabel Mebarak Ripoll), and the recently added Adele (Adele Laurie Blue Adkins) – probably with several others – all be removed?
* Are the exclusions meant to be used in combination? E.g., if a person was born Mary Katherine Jones, married John Smith, and subsequently entered show business using the name Kathy Smith, would she be excluded as using "a shortened or informal version of their given name" which is "not their birth forename, but is a middle name" and "changed their surname due primarily to marriage"? Would it make a difference whether or not she was commonly called "Kathy" growing up?
Fat&Happy (talk) 23:45, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification of exclusions 

message: I'm not sure why she's excluded for marriage. She was born Joan Alexandra Molinsky, and changed her name on advice of her agent, who's last name was also Rivers, but to whom she wasn't married. Her first marriage (annulled after 6 months) was to James Sanger and her second marriage (which produced daughter Melissa "Rivers") was to Edgar Rosenberg. Jrdeardorff (talk) 02:29, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're right. My mistake. I fixed it. Thanks. Quis separabit? 02:39, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Joan Rivers

message: Am I the only one who finds it strange that we have a note stating that "people are not listed here if they...changed their surname due primarily to marriage" and then go on to list 119 (unless I miscounted) such people? --Khajidha (talk) 05:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Are you referring to the lede which specifically mentions those whose name change was due to marriage (living & deceased sections)?? This is not part of the list proper and is useful in various regards, including stopping people adding those names to the list which then would need to be removed. Quis separabit? 15:34, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I fail to see how listing it in the lede to prevent them from being listed in the list is an improvement. Simply put a few examples and be done with it. --Khajidha (talk) 17:43, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Btw, Khajidha: I rv your last edits, which while well-intentioned and good faith, removed names which do qualify as they are "Individuals who dropped their last name and substituted their middle name as their last name are listed" (see lede instructions). It is those who dropped a first name and used a middle name who should not be included, not those who dropped their surnames as I understand it. Yours, Quis separabit? 15:39, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Adele, Amina, Anasol and many others fall under the criterion of "people known by a single name that is one of their legal names." I interpreted "Julia Ann" and "Ann-Margret" as two part first names which would put them under that same criterion. I guess one could argue over "Derek B", "Eric B" and "Mel C", I wouldn't feel that using your actual final initial instead of your last name made a stage name. "Booker T" is more of the compound first name situation as the T is not from his last name. "Cactus Jack" WAS an actual error, as I missed that this listing was for that alias and not "Mick Foley" which is simply a diminutive of his given name "Michael Foley". "Cam'ron" I felt fell under the "single name that is one of their actual names" and "shortened name" rules, but admit that the combination might change things. "Johnny Cash" adopted the name "John R. Cash" well before his singing career and "Johnny Cash" is just a diminutive of it. I was mistaken to remove examples such as "Bobby Charles" and "Ray Charles", as you explained. I would argue against their inclusion, but the rule is in place. --Khajidha (talk) 17:43, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  HI, again. Actually, I removed Johnny Cash (I know it's hard to keep track) upon reflection when doing my last edit, although I may have been wrong. I think the solution regarding the rest would be an agreed upon revision/update to the instructions/qualifiers in the lede. There are probably others outside the letter "C". Yours, Quis separabit? 17:50, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I'm sure there are many more. I had just gotten through C on my run through. The list definitely needs a trim as there are many names that are against the rules as listed and many others that could be argued don't belong. --Khajidha (talk) 19:37, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

text:  SO: Maybe we should start a consensus building discussion. Should we do it right here on this discussion page? Quis separabit? 19:53, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem with that. How should we go about it? Copy the list to this page and tag whether each name should stay or go? Or what? Would also like it if more people weighed in. --Khajidha (talk) 20:05, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Definitely need more people's opinions for consensus-building. I'm kind of a Luddite, so despite my superannuation I am not really sure about the mechanics of how to set it up and attract editors' attention though, hence my question. I guess I am more of the artistic "enfante terrible" than the nuts and bolts computer savvy guy. Quis separabit? 20:09, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persons not listed if the name change was due to marriage 

message: 1. If a person uses one of their actual personal names and one part of a hyphenated name, does that merit inclusion? (Noticed several, I'll come back later with an example)
2. If the stage name differs from the birth name only in oe vs ö, does that merit inclusion? (Aaron Schroeder)
--Khajidha (talk) 17:26, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: 2. Certainly not - "oe" is just a way of representing "ö" in a typeface with no umlaut. -- Ian Dalziel (talk) 19:00, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my understanding as well, but I did not want to remove that name without consulting others. --Khajidha (talk) 23:23, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

text: Examples for 1, Angela Baddeley and Hermione Baddeley. --Khajidha (talk) 23:25, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questions 

message: I have removed Jahna Steele as that name was not adopted as a stage persona. Ms Steele adopted that name as part of her sex change, as such it should be treated the same as a woman changing her name due to marriage or any individual changing his or her name for personal reasons. --Khajidha (talk) 17:09, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jahna Steele 

message: I removed at least one name from this list as the only difference between the stage name and the birth name was that the stage name used Western naming order and the birth name used Eastern naming order. I saw this as analogous to the existing rule about Hispanic naming customs, but later realized that it wasn't specifically mentioned. I propose that an explicit guideline on this be added. --Khajidha (talk) 00:25, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eastern name order 

message: It seems like there are a fair number of people included on the list who don't meet your criteria...they just use their first name or they use a common derivative of a name (for example, "Beth" for "Elizabeth"). Or they use their middle name instead of their first name. I would think that if someone's name was, for example, "Michael John Williams Davis" and they go by "John Davis", this isn't a stage name as it is just a selection of two of their given names (that is, it's not a made-up name).
I just scanned through your lengthy guidelines but it seems like over the past 5 or 6 years, individuals have been added who do not meet your criteria. 
It's not in my nature to delete material but it looks like this list needs to be reviewed to see if those present still belong on it. Anyone up to that task? 69.125.134.86 (talk) 14:55, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why not list some examples? If you're right then they have to go, and a general review should then be initiated. Thanks for your noticing this. Quis separabit? 16:17, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible Deletions? 

message: Over the last few weeks I have removed several dozen names from the list that do not belong on it. This was not a systematic review of the list, but just based on picking and choosing cases here and there to check and finding a large number that do not fit the criteria. I would not be surprised if there are a hundred or more other names on the list that do not belong. One of the main reasons for this problem is that there is no requirement that people provide any source for a claim that a name is a stage name, so anyone can cruise by, add a name based on an unfounded assumption, and then it sticks. This page will continue to be substantially unreliable unless sources are required for the inclusion of names.
But just requiring sources will not solve all the problems. It is not unusual for entertainment media, which are often counted as reliable sources, to not do great research and so they make assumptions about names being stage names when they are not. Two good examples of this are the sisters Meg Tilly and Jennifer Tilly. Their last names at birth were "Chan" and "Tilly" is their mother's maiden name, but they all changed their names to "Tilly" when the girls were teenagers after their mother's second divorce and she took back her maiden name. It is not a stage name at all, even though it sometimes is reported as one. Sources can be found that calls "Tilly" a stage name even though it is not.
The same problem is true of lots of people who are known by nicknames for first names Buddy Ebsen's first name is a nickname, but one he had since early childhood. The same is true for Bunny Berigan, but in both cases you can find sources that call those nicknames "stage" names. So while requiring sources for inclusion of names is important and should be required, it still needs to be carefully examined to see if the source is based on assumptions or lazy entertainment media.
Beyond those problems, there are still more problems. The definition of "stage name" that the page uses is not really accurate. One problem is how it assumes that name changes (other than for reasons of marriage) that happen once a public life begins is automatically a stage name. But lots of people acquire and use nicknames (whether they are famous or not) in adulthood that supplant their birth names. In sports, two good examples are Babe Ruth and Sparky Anderson. Both men were named "George" at birth and in both cases the nicknames were given to them after they started playing baseball, but the fact that these names replaced their birth name as the name they were known by had nothing to do with adopting a name for the purposes of a public life. They were just nicknames that stuck. So one good example on the list that shouldn't be there is Sting. The nickname was given to him by band mates after he started playing music professionally, but before he became famous. It was just a nickname that supplanted his real name used by people who knew him. It's not a name he decided to adopt for the purposes of his public life. So it's not a "stage" name at all. The same is true for Willem Dafoe (a high school nickname) and pretty much all blues musicians on the list (with names like "Fats" or "Red"). Nicknames, even when used exclusively in the place of a legal name, are not stage names.
People can also change their names as adults for religious reasons, like Yusef Lateef. But that does not make the name a stage name. The stage had nothing to do with the name change. This has happened more commonly with athletes (like Muhammad Ali and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar), but it also happens with stage performers like Lateef and Yusuf Islam, both of which are (wrongly) included as "stage" names on the list.
Another problem is the inclusion of professional wrestlers ring names. Wrestlers are actors who play roles and the ring name that they have is not a "stage" name, it is a character name. The idea that these might be "stage" names might derive from the fact that people used to believe that professional wrestling was real and thus that these characters were the wrestler's real personalities. It might also derive from the fact that some wrestlers use their real names in the ring. But just because Jerry Seinfeld used his real name when he played a character on TV who also was a stand-up comic does not make "George Costanza" a stage name. It's still just a character name. (An even better example is the show Louie. Louis C.K. plays a stand-up comedian and father of two daughters named "Louis C.K.", but it's a character. Also appearing on the show a whole list of comedians who use their real names and play characters that are not their real selves. But the fact that all these people are playing characters that are similar to their real selves with the same names as they actually have does not make other character names "stage" names. They are all still just characters.) So "The Rock" is not a stage name. It is the name of a character played by Dwayne Johnson. To call it a "stage" name is to mistake the fictional character he plays when he wrestles for a real person. A non-wrestling similar example is Father Guido Sarducci, who is on the list. Father Guido Sarducci is a character played by Don Novello. It is not a "stage" name.
The issue of spelling changes is also a problem. The lead says that "individuals who have changed the spelling of one or more of their legal names" should be included, but it is not obvious that this captures part of what it means to have a stage name. The famous 18th century Scottish philosopher David Hume changed the spelling of his name from "Home" to "Hume" because people in England always mispronounced it. Mel Blanc changed his name's spelling from "Blank" after a high school teacher told him he would amount to nothing, like his name. It was a spelling change for personal reasons, not "stage" reasons. Spelling changes can be for pronunciation issues, not "stage" issues. Furthermore, in some languages and cultures it is not uncommon for ordinary people to change the spellings of names or even to "translate" names. Lots of Spanish-speaking people named "Jorge" will call themselves "George" when talking in English to English speakers. It also is common in China, for example, for Chinese people who speak and work in English to have an English name and for English speakers who work in Chinese to have a Chinese name. This is for ordinary people, not just celebrities. So Jackie Chan is not really a stage name. It is just his English name.
It seems that people will assume that if a the name a person is known by is different from their birth name that that is enough to show that it is a stage name. But that is not true. People's names change for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with public life, so clear evidence that a name is a "stage" name is needed to include a name. Ironically, a person's birth name can actually be their stage name. When women (it's almost always women) who are famous under a maiden name get married they have sometimes legally changed their last name to their husbands last name and used that name in private life, but retained their maiden name for their public life. At this point their birth name has become a "stage" name, one that is used for public identification only. So a birth name can be a stage name and a name change in adulthood need not be a "stage" name.
It seems to me that a lot of work is needed to fix all the problems on this page, and having made a few dozen corrections I can safely say I am pretty much at the limit of my interest in dealing with it. So I though I would just leave this long explanation of the massive problems the page has in the hope that either someone will come along and want to put in the time and effort to clean up the mess or, at the very least, so people who stumble across this page might realize that it is not very accurate. But if someone does want to start cleaning up the page, I suggest starting with requiring citations for any inclusions and that those citations not merely be to sources that use the term "stage name" (because they might be defining the term differently or might just be assuming a non-birth name is a stage name), but to sources that actually explain how and why the name was changed. Then this explanation of the reasons for a change can be compared to the list criteria to see if it fits or not. The result of such a review is likely that hundreds of names would be removed. There might even be a lot of names that really are stage names removed because the claim could not be adequately sourced, but better to exclude a real stage name because it could not be sourced than to include names that are not stage names based on poor sourcing or even no sourcing, as it is now. That could be your mission, should you choose to accept it.... 99.192.72.46 (talk) 15:50, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am afraid that in keeping with the powerful arguments expressed by the editor above that I was a bit too anxious to remove a number of names in the mistaken belief that they did not qualify under a certain criterion. I have begun restoring them upon reconsideration. Quis separabit? 03:27, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: This list has massive problems

message: User @Edward321 has just deleted (using the euphemism "trimmed") virtually every name in the lede, unilaterally (see ). I understand WP:BOLD but I also understand WP:CONSENSUS and WP:IAR. I reverted. Quis separabit? 15:11, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: User @Edward321

message: The columns are going haywire. I requested assistance at the Help Desk (see here). Does anyone know how to fix this? Quis separabit? 22:45, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Columns going haywire

message: Is the line "People are not listed here if they fall into one or more of the following categories" misleading?
For example, I noticed that "Posh Spice" was not listed with the other 4 Spice Girls' stage names. I assume this is because someone saw "Victoria Beckham" listed under the disclaimer: "people are not listed here...Those who changed their surname due primarily to marriage" and took that to mean that she couldn't be in this list at all. However, surely what this disclaimer means is that the NAME "Victoria Beckham" is not eligible and not that the PERSON "Victoria Beckham" is not eligible at all in this list, even if she has a legitimate stage name aka "Posh Spice". i.e. "Victoria Beckham" is not a stage name and shouldn't be listed, but "Posh Spice" is and should be listed. 
I haven't checked, but there may be others whose legitimate stage names were not included for this reason.
Perhaps the line should be: "Names are not listed here if they fall into one or more of the following categories".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bennv3771 (talk • contribs) 14:56, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading disclaimer? 

message: I see that some of the Our Gang members are listed here (Alfalfa, Buckwheat, and Porky; but Spanky is missing).  The question is, are these stage names, or character names?  Same question applies to Elvira.  Also, all of these might also belong in List of one-word stage names (if they are, in fact, stage names).
There's also a question of whether a performer's alternate names belong here as well, if used when credited as a performer (e.g., each of the Traveling Wilburys, and Dr. Winston O'Boogie).  -- HLachman (talk) 17:36, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stage name vs. character name vs. alternate name 

message: Am I the only one who sees that as ridiculous? Just list one or two examples and be done with it.--Khajidha (talk) 20:27, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, this is a ridiculous and contradictory practice. I plan on removing these "lists of those not listed" in the next few days. --Khajidha (talk) 12:31, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Do you still plan to remove them? I agree that the article doesn't need a list of all the names that should not be listed. They just shouldn't be listed. Bennv3771 (talk) 08:17, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I HAD removed them but was reverted due to lack of discussion, even though this section had been made before I removed the sections. --Khajidha (talk) 11:14, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I see. Well I guess this starts the discussion to gain consensus then. My two cents is that I agree with Khajidha. A list of stage names does not need to include a "list of not-stage names" as well. The current wall of text is unnecessary and gets in the way of readers looking for the actual stage names themselves. Just listing the inclusion criteria with one or two examples are sufficient. Pinging  who may be interested. Bennv3771 (talk) 12:48, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello? ANYBODY here? Can RMS125a@hotmail.com please explain how a list-of-people-not-listed-here makes any kind of sense?--Khajidha (talk) 16:20, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Here are seven screens worth of lists of names that are not to be listed here. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I submit that Father Guido Sarducci doesn't belong listed here. It's a character frequently played by Don Novello (the individual article about Father Sarducci agrees), not a stage name. Novello has appeared in other works as Don Novello, when he wasn't playing Sarducci, such as Godfather III, and was credited as Don Novello. Nolefan32 (talk) 18:16, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Father Guido Sarducci 

message: This should be sorted with a box, color-coded. I will come up with an example.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 01:53, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  better way to sort 

message: Stage names should really be only listed on the page if the individual doesn't use it in their personal life. So, I don't really understand why stage names the listed person later adopted are listed, such as David Warshofsky- born David Warner; while people who made minute but distinct adjustments (such as placement of middle names, spelling changes, addition/ removal of a prefix, and listing marriages they no longer are in) are inelligible. May I remove the criteria listed in the parentheses in the last sentence, and add one about "must not actually be a reference to a character portrayed by the individual", such as "Father Guido Sarducci" for Don Novello or Tiny "Zeus" Lister for Tom "Tiny" Lister Jr.? 
I'd also exclude aliases done for obscurant reasons, such as actor/ voice actor Dan Green really being named Jay Snyder; he goes by Jay Snyder in person and in union projects, the name Dan Green was an alias he took on for non-union voiceover projects that happened to make him famous.
Thanks for reading, and I hope to hear everyone's thoughts. Starbeam2 (talk) 18:41, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  @Starbeam2-- why did you remove many (but not all) middle names from birth names if they are accurate? Some middle names removed, some left with no edit summaries or valid justifications provided. I would revert but for intervening edits. And "ineligible" is not spelled "inelligible".  67.84.230.165 (talk) 23:31, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Middle names are generally redundant info and i've removed them unless they are part of the stage name. As for "inelligible", that's just a typo. Starbeam2 (talk) 16:42, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criteria change 

message: The list is simply too long and too unwieldy to edit on a single page. The time it takes to load and manage all of that on one page just eats at bandwidth. I suggest we split the page into a couple dozen more, based on letter, in order to save on space. Starbeam2 (talk) 02:56, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split article into about 26~ pages 

message: There's an explicit note excluding wrestling personae, but I've just removed a BUNCH of wrestlers. And I'm sure there are others I've missed, as I was only searching for "wrestler". I noticed  a few more after my edit, and plan on going back later to remove as many as I can find. --Khajidha (talk) 22:16, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Professional wrestlers 

message: Do people who use their actual first name (or a clear short form of it) and final initial really count as using stage names? Examples:
Cheryl B – Cheryl Burke, Derek B – Derek Bolland, Eric B – Eric Barrier, Jon B. – Jonathan David Buck, Katy B – Kathleen Anne Brien, and Mel B – Melanie Janine Brown. This was just the ones I saw in the B section. --Khajidha (talk) 22:19, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't count it. It's not as if these people arrive into their doctor's office with those initials alone. I'll leave anything off if it fits consensus ofc, but calling these real names is a stretch. Starbeam2 (talk) 16:44, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  First name and last initial 

message: Why is so much of this list in collapsed tables that don't even link to the person in question? This is especially annoying when the stage name needs disambiguation. For example, the collapsed table under B includes "Georgia Brown". When I put that name in the search box, it brought up a disambiguation page. I then had to dig through all those listings to determine that the Georgia Brown who was born Lilian Claire Klot was Georgia Brown (English singer). --Khajidha (talk) 00:04, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Unlinked tables

message: What is the formatting of this page supposed to look like? The "A" section has just a drop down list. The "B" section has a permanently shown list as well as a drop down list, with seemingly no reason for the separation and no reason that it should deviate from the formatting of the "A" section. And further, the "C" section is only a permanently shown list, again deviating from the first two. The following letters all follow one of those with seemingly no reason for the differences. Anything in the dropdowns does not link to the source personality, and the article is incredibly difficult to navigate as a result and creates a lot of confusion surrounding why certain personalities are placed in certain areas within the letters.--HBKUS (talk) 06:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been trying to remake the page into a listed and sortable table for ease of reading and CTRL+F-ing. This will take a lot of time, so consider the reorganization a work in progress, especially since the page loads slowly due to all the text on it. I've also been attempting moving individual letters to their own pages, but i'm a generally busy person so I cannot do that so readily. Starbeam2 (talk) 16:40, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: after i link/ re-organize the data into tables, i might need to alphabetize the categories by first name; it's easier to sort and tell which is the fake name. I have time in my day to work on this again, but this is going to a be while. Starbeam2 (talk) 14:13, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting 

message: It seems clear that this page should be split for technical reasons. Though WP:SIZERULE doesn't automatically apply because this isn't a prose article, 194 kB is way more than some devices can handle (including mine, my computer began lagging when I tried to edit this). The list is also incredibly difficult to navigate in its current form. I propose that we split the list alphabetically, similar to Lists of English translations from medieval sources. The Midnite Wolf (talk) 21:18, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Some split lists were merged back here pending the result of this discussion. Jalen Folf (talk) 00:40, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting proposal 

message: Dexter Holland from the Offspring born Brian Holland needs added 174.250.210.15 (talk) 11:45, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Ozzieboy (talk) 19:24, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dexter Holland