Talk:Fuck/Archive 1

message: I had the impression that fuck as a common expression has only started in the late 40's or 50's with the beat generation.  I see gangster movies from the 20's using it and I'm not sure that is accurate, my parents were born in the 20's my father in WW II and they were both pretty hip for the times, drank, smoked and partyed a lot rode Harleys and Indians and they are both offended by the word where as my generation (60's) it has come to mean little and even less now for young people I believe.  As I said I always wondered if these gangster movies were correct then this show on HBO Deadwood has come on that is 19th century I guess and the main character uses it every other word.  I don't doubt outlaws cussed but I don't think fuck was used in that context at that time is that correct?
Just interested
Linda
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I heard from a guy I know who is a unofficial entymologist, that the word fuck came from the word flog. He says in the british navy there was a rule that u cant copulate with prostitues to prevetn STD transmission, and . If u went and um, copulated with a prostitue and it was discovered, when u returned to ur ship u would get flogged or whiped (same thing I belive), and thats the origin of the word. It would mean in this meaning unlawful sexual relations. This guy figured this out on his own. Tell me what u think people, I dont know if this should be added to the entymology list.Patcat88 05:01, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of usage 

message: From the article:
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===The verb fuck in different languages===
* Chinese(Cantonese): diu (similar to the pronunciation of "deal" in English)
* Chinese(Mandarin/Putonghua): 1. diao(it also refers to the male's genitals, esp. in N China, ie penis; it means "damn" or "darn" in Taiwan)2. Cao (similar to the pronunciation of "chow" in English)
* Danish: Kneppe
* Dutch: Neuken
* Esperanto: Koiti (intransitive)
* Finnish: Nussia
* French: Baiser
* German: Ficken
* Italian: Fottere
* Lithuanian: Pisti
* Norwegian: Knulle
* Polish: Jebać
* Portuguese: Foder (or Comer subjectively used, because it means "to eat", in Northern Portugal pinar is also used) (following a couple of slightly less used or used only in certain contexts Brasilian slangs for fuck, Trepar originally meaning to climb, carcar unknown etmology, ferrar uknown exact etmology, perhaps meaning to attach horse shoes, or to brand cattle, perhaps better translated as to screw
* Romanian: a Fute
* Spanish: Joder (in Spain), Chingar (in Mexico), Pichar or Tirar (in Colombia), Coger (in Argentina).
* Swedish: Knulla
* Russian: Yebat' (transitive), yebatsa (intransitive).
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Wikipedia is not Wiktionary. More specific; this article does not in any way need or depend on this wordlist. Only the usage of the english word is discussed, and it's usage or etymnology cannot be linked to other language's forms of the word. ✏ Sverdrup 00:22, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree thoroughly. The word list is interesting and adds to the article IMO. Anyone who would be interested by the rest of the article would be interested by this section. Just because something could theoretically be shifted to Wiktionary does not mean it must be in all cases. Restoring. - David Gerard 20:32, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, we disagree. I think the list is unrelated and pulls down the article to an unencyclopedic level. ✏ Sverdrup 21:59, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: I disagree to deleting the list.  You may be surprised but there are languages, or at least Japanese, that don't have a equivalent. I wrote "Japanese: (Untranslatable)" into the list and this doesn't mean that a translation exists, but cannot be written out of sensitivity.  A translation simply doesn't exist.  When a word like "Fuck you!" is spoken, it is translated into something like "Kono Kusoyarou!"(lit. You are shit!).  The existence of the word "fuck" that most people consider needless to discuss, has led to discussions in Japan on why Japanese language doesn't have a insult like "fuck". Revth 05:00, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what you mean by that, Revth. The verb "fuzakeru" is butchered to intend "fuck" all the time and is translated as "zakennayo!" the in the Japanese subtitles of many American films to express "fuck off" or "stop fucking around." I edited the footnote in an attempt to dispel the mythos that "fuck" is untranslatable by explaining the Japanese language's reliance on implicit context. Also, where is this "discussion" happening in Japan? Are Diet members debating anachronisms in the language or are people on the streets thinking "gee, we've never really fucked before?"  --Psients 07:03, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: It would help if you signed or dated your posts, and didn't make them in the middle of a discussion page. If something is wrong in the article, change it. --Vyran 14:36, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: I'm taking out the other languages section

message: * Chinese(Cantonese): diu (similar to the pronunciation of "deal" in English)
* Chinese(Mandarin/Putonghua): 1. diao(it also refers to the male's genitals, esp. in N China, ie penis; it means "damn" or "darn" in Taiwan)2. Cao (similar to the pronunciation of "chow" in English)
* Danish: Kneppe
* Dutch: Neuken
* Esperanto: Koiti (intransitive)
* Finnish: Nussia
* French: Baiser
* German: Ficken
* Italian: Fottere
* Lithuanian: Pisti
* Norwegian: Knulle
* Polish: Jebać
* Portuguese: Foder (or Comer subjectively used, because it means "to eat", in Northern Portugal pinar is also used) (following a couple of slightly less used or used only in certain contexts Brasilian slangs for fuck, Trepar originally meaning to climb, carcar unknown etmology, ferrar uknown exact etmology, perhaps meaning to attach horse shoes, or to brand cattle, perhaps better translated as to screw
* Romanian: a Fute
* Spanish: Joder (in Spain), Chingar (in Mexico), Pichar or Tirar (in Colombia), Coger (in Argentina).
* Swedish: Knulla
* Russian: Yebat' (transitive), yebatsa (intransitive).
----
Wikipedia is not Wiktionary. More specific; this article does not in any way need or depend on this wordlist. Only the usage of the english word is discussed, and it's usage or etymnology cannot be linked to other language's forms of the word. ✏ Sverdrup 00:22, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree thoroughly. The word list is interesting and adds to the article IMO. Anyone who would be interested by the rest of the article would be interested by this section. Just because something could theoretically be shifted to Wiktionary does not mean it must be in all cases. Restoring. - David Gerard 20:32, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, we disagree. I think the list is unrelated and pulls down the article to an unencyclopedic level. ✏ Sverdrup 21:59, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: I disagree to deleting the list.  You may be surprised but there are languages, or at least Japanese, that don't have a equivalent. I wrote "Japanese: (Untranslatable)" into the list and this doesn't mean that a translation exists, but cannot be written out of sensitivity.  A translation simply doesn't exist.  When a word like "Fuck you!" is spoken, it is translated into something like "Kono Kusoyarou!"(lit. You are shit!).  The existence of the word "fuck" that most people consider needless to discuss, has led to discussions in Japan on why Japanese language doesn't have a insult like "fuck". Revth 05:00, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what you mean by that, Revth. The verb "fuzakeru" is butchered to intend "fuck" all the time and is translated as "zakennayo!" the in the Japanese subtitles of many American films to express "fuck off" or "stop fucking around." I edited the footnote in an attempt to dispel the mythos that "fuck" is untranslatable by explaining the Japanese language's reliance on implicit context. Also, where is this "discussion" happening in Japan? Are Diet members debating anachronisms in the language or are people on the streets thinking "gee, we've never really fucked before?"  --Psients 07:03, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: It would help if you signed or dated your posts, and didn't make them in the middle of a discussion page. If something is wrong in the article, change it. --Vyran 14:36, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The verb fuck in different languages

message: This edit duplicated the entire talk page, and I undid it. --Yath 05:22, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Fix

message: I was looking at too many diffs at once, and accidentally reverted User:Bornintheguz's edit.  My fault. - jredmond 18:23, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oops, sorry 

message: (Reverted edits by Philip Baird Shearer to last version by RickK)
This is an English word not just an American English word. As I said in the summary I removed the image as it is in the finger article and IMHO is no more relevent here than a V sign.
Please explain why you reverted my edits. Philip Baird Shearer 13:28, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why reverse removal of image [[user:Blankfaze|Blankfaze]]? 

message: I think we should add a reference to RTFM here, too.  After all the most common expansion of this widely used Internet admonishment does contain the expletive at hand.  Perhaps we could even mention, in passing, that UNIX systems administrators and some other UNIX and Linux enthusiasts sometimes use fsck (pronounced "fisk") as a humorous bowdlerization.  Thus RTFM is often expanded to: "read the fscking manual" (READ THE FUCKING MANUAL).
JimD 19:42, 2004 Aug 10 (UTC)
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This is a true story. A friend of a friend (I know, I know, but I heard it from the horse's mouth) plays in an classical orchestra. At one rehearsal session, things were not going well, and the conductor, a heavily accented Polish gentleman with relatively poor English, was getting increasingly exasperated. Finally his patience ran out, and he threw down the baton, shouting at the musicians "You bastards think I know fuck nothing! I tell you... I know Fuck All!!!!"Graham 09:27, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  RTFM 

message: Regarding GRAHAMUK's removal of my edit on grounds that "rm ref to HHGTTG - there is no evidence that the word fuck is implied by any supposed substitution, it's in the mind of the reader. The word Belgium is used in all versions. No relevance" I'll grant that the relevance is tenuous, which is why I'm not going to try restoring this.  That said, the claim that "Belgium is used in all versions" is patently false; I have a copy of the 1982 U.K. paperback edition of Life, the Universe and Everything open in front of me right now, and I quote from page 114:
:'Oh,' said Arthur, 'oh, well I'm sorry I didn't. What was it for?'
:'The Most Gratuitous Use of the Word "Fuck" In A Serious Screenplay. It's very prestigious.'
:'Oh,' said Arthur, 'yes, and what do you get for that?'
:'A Rory. It's just a small silver thing set on a large black base. What did you say?'
:'I didn't say anything. I was just about to ask what the silver...'
POV: There are quite a few changes made in the U.S. edition; the use of "Belgium," and its accompanying explanation, is probably the single one that's unambiguously an improvement. Shmuel 04:39, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I stand corrected, I checked the reference and you're right! I tend to feel that the canonical HHGTTG is the radio series, predating as it does all other versions, and that's where "belgium" as a swear word first appears. I'm not sure that the radio play scene where  "belgium" is used even appears in the books - a quick scan through I can't find it, and I can't remember... (the scene is where the Heart of Gold materialises inside the 15-mile high marble plastic cup and Zaphod falls out, hanging on only by the towel thrown to him by Ford....). It's so hard to keep up with all the different versions!! I still don't think it's all that pertinent to this article though. Graham 09:33, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Belgium 

message: Please see the entry for Baise Moi and the talk page about this. My high school French tells me that "baise moi" literally means "kiss me". I now understand that in slang it means "rape me" or "fuck me" with a degree of violence. The entry in here used to say:
:when the controversial French film Baise-moi (2000) was released in the UK, its title was bowdlerised to Rape Me, rather than the literal Fuck Me, though this may have been for effect. 
After an edit by User:Rich Farmbrough who has correctly removed the word "bowdlerised" it now says:
:when the controversial French film Baise-moi (2000) was released in the UK, its title was changed to Rape Me, rather than the literal Fuck Me, though this may have been for effect. 
But it still clings to the word literal which I believe to be incorrect. I have been waiting for a French speaker to make these corrections in both articles. If indeed this is a correct interpretation then the UK release under the title "Rape Me" may have had no censorship aspect at all. If that is true then it really needs a significant rewrite of its mention. However, I guess it would have been a hard film to advertise in the papers and on TV if it had used the title "Fuck Me". Perhaps the entry should be changed from:
:It is still often censored on broadcast radio and television; in 2002, when the controversial French film Baise-moi (2000) was released in the UK, its title was changed to Rape Me, rather than the literal Fuck Me, though this may have been for effect. A simlilar thing happened to the Swedish film Fucking Åmål. A similar kind of censoring is offered on many online forums, where users are given options to filter out vulgarities.
To:
:It is still often censored on broadcast radio and television; in 2002, when the controversial French film Baise-moi (2000) was released in the UK, the title chosen was Rape Me, rather than Fuck Me. (Both are slang translations of what was intended by the original French title.) A simlilar thing happened to the Swedish film Fucking Åmål. Censoring is also offered on many online forums, where users are given options to filter out vulgarities.
(I have also removed the second use of "A similar".) The problem is that it loses a lot of the strength of the concept of censoring which is the thrust of this part of the article.
--CloudSurfer 18:50, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baise Moi 

message: Is Wikipedia citing this sentence in all seriousness? That was on some "fuck usage" video. I mean, honestly, are we going to cite "hide and go-fuck-yourself" too? It just makes it sound very juvenile, and definitely not of anything that should be nominated for FA. Mike H 07:11, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
*Yeah, I've had a problem with that sentence for a while.  I find it wholly dumb.  But I'd not care to edit-war over it.  blankfaze | (беседа!) 07:18, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: My view of this sentence was that it was an example of how often "fuck" could be used in a sentence.  It is a short and pithy example. If the sentence read, "What the fuck do you fucking think you are fucking doing with that fucking thing?" you would probably recognise that as common parlance for some people. I personally have heard the sort of sentence I have given but not heard the one in the article. That does not mean that some creative word smith has not said it. --CloudSurfer 07:44, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Fuck the fucking fuckers

message: From a Colorado court case, via
The Smoking Gun.
+sj+ 05:41, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: This is very clever and very funny. We should, with permission of the author, use some of the data he collected. I particularly like the humourous list on the last page of appropriate places for the use of the word. For those reading this article, Wikipedia is consistently referenced at the beginning with Id., presumably being Ibid (in the same place or the same reference), mentioned many times. --CloudSurfer 07:24, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference to this article in a legal brief

message: . . . but I think this article is less than neutral. o_O; It's not biased, per se, but the people who are writing it are obviously having a heck of a lot of fun. (comment by User:Purplefeltangel -- Céçaquiéça 04:29, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hrm, and this is not NPOV? I see nothing but facts on this page. -- Céçaquiéça 04:29, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh?? You're going to need a better reason than that to stick an  tag on the article.  — Asbestos | Talk 09:04, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pardon me if this is wrong . . . (NPOV dispute) 

message: A Dutch link to the f-word is backed up by Michael Quinion in his excellent book 'POSH and other language myths'. The Dutch verb 'fokken' means 'to breed'. Not only in middle Dutch, as Quinion states, but in modern Dutch as well.
:Without any more details, that isn't really that surprising - it's a distinctly Germanic sounding word, and it's pretty clear that Dutch and English are fairly closely related languages. - IMSoP 21:54, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dutch connection. 

message: I seem to remember this line ("Intercourse the penguin") in a Monty Python skit with two "middle aged ladies" talking and one referencing a penguin which I think was on top of a TV.  As such, it would be an early ephemistic reference to the word.  Can any Python fan who can give a date for this show and verify the quote put it in the article please. ----CloudSurfer 09:54, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intercourse the penguin 

message: Substituted at 20:35, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment