Talk:Mark Essex

message: These victim tallies are inconsistent. The lead paragraph says Essex killed 10 and wounded 13 others. At the end of the article, he is said to have "shot" 19 people total. ChrisWinter 15:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of victims

message: I saw a thing on youtube http://youtube.com/watch?v=uiU0Tc0EIwU that says the same location, hotel in new orleans, and same date, january 73, yet it says there are 3 black snipers, and the name it mentions is robert essex, possibly mark essex's brother. What's the deal with this? Does anyone know if the video is true?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heatsketch (talk • contribs) 19:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you search deeply enough, this sources from initial confusions. TKOA is a very fascinating documentary, with superlative archive footage. However, it recites inaccuracies here and there regarding some of the cases - often to accompany condensed imagery/footage (and the directors must have known this). Whitman killed a man in a barber chair; thirty-two teenage boys in the basement of Gacy's home etc. It is the same with this case. That insertion has no base in fact beyond speculation regarding conflicting reports in the immediate aftermath of Essex's death. Ballistics proved all those killed died by the Ruger found near Essex's body.--Kieronoldham (talk) 04:36, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: 2 more shooters?

message: I added this small section. Gil Scott Heron seems to regard Essex as a hero, which is a somewhat extreme view IMHO.  SmokeyTheCat  •TALK• 20:43, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Other than the one line that is currently in the article, I don't think there is any other need to add info to explain the views of a racist mass murderer. Certainly, if his color was reversed it wouldn't even be considered.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.245.173 (talk) 14:20, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultural References

message: Since the subject is referred to as "Jimmy Essex" in "The Ultimate Sniper - An Advanced Training Manual for Military and Police Snipers" by Maj. John Plaster, I created the redirect. I don't think it conflicts with the existing article on James Essex as "Jimmy" wasn't a common nickname in the 1700's. Because the book that I am citing is pretty popular in public service, in legitimate sport shooting circles and among certain fringe elements, I figured the redirect would come in useful.FiReSTaRT (talk) 12:44, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirect Created

message: The Killing of America (1982) mentions the shooting at the hotel at length. But I don't know how to edit Wikipedia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.157.152.183 (talk) 11:48, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural References 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The category is not valid and vague, especially since not all of Essex's victims were white, and "European-American" is a loose term given that it doesn't distinguish between recent immigrants or those with certain ancestry 2601:19B:100:AB50:0:0:0:D529 (talk) 03:44, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: To my mind this is almost wishful thinking, given his well documented lifestyle and activities from his Navy days onwards. Many authors and indeed advocates (plus his family) have stated his intents and purposes. Even contemporary news accounts and footage make it clear. If you read enough about the case, it is quite clear what his motives were. As for the shooting of Harrell, the 12.30.72 attack was carried out from afar, very late in the evening. One of many authors once wrote "Mark Essex's war on whites had claimed its first victim, but not the one he'd intended."--Kieronoldham (talk) 03:53, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: this doesn't address my point at all and so it still stands. the category is invalid 2601:19B:100:AB50:0:0:0:D529 (talk) 01:41, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I mentioned at the beginning of the month, all the literature illustrates Essex's life up to 12/31/72. This includes numerous individuals who had known him before and during his radicalization. You are more than welcome to either take the discussion to  the Teahouse or try and devote similar passion to removing a similar category from, say, the 1999 London nail bombings article.--Kieronoldham (talk) 01:53, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Racially motivated violence against European Americans" 

message: Ya'll both look like you're fighting over whether or not Mark was a member of the Black Panther party, please talk it out here MayDay2099 (talk) 22:48, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: We are both just discussing different viewpoints (integrally and neutrally) for the benefit of the article. We both have valid viewpoints and concerns being brought back and forth. If it results in ultimate consensus it'll be brought here.--Kieronoldham (talk) 22:53, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I am making a request for a reliable source that says that Essex was a member of the BPP, rather than a reader of their literature, a friend of another BPP member, or whatever. He was so notorious that it should be easy to provide evidence of his membership. The evidence we have of his personal ideology is incompatible with BPP ideology. The BPP made many errors but it was not an anti-white organization and frequently cooperated with predominantly white organizations. Cullen328 (talk) 23:39, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The books are reliable references. I linked a few on your talk page. I understand your concerns, but authors have stated as such. At the very least, it should be added as a note that according to some authors, he was a member. An equal counteract of some kind in the note would be apt? I am sure you could add with an equally reliable ref. something to contradict it, if so?--Kieronoldham (talk) 23:51, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

text: So far, not a single reliable source that I have seen states unambiguously that he was a member of Black Panther Party rather than a hanger-on. I would like to see what you believe to be the best direct quote on this specific point, . Most of the sources you mentioned on my talk page come nowhere near close to that. Cullen328 (talk) 00:04, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm beginning to think you may not want Essex to have been a member (or former member), given his actions at the end of his life. I linked a few unequivocal ones on your page. I fail to see how the sentence "a member of the Black Panther movement" can be misconstrued. It's linked. Another is here. Random web searches confirm it (and if the authors are incorrect then the fault lies with the authors and not Wiki. for using reputable sources for inclusion). Please don't take issue with myself for reading this info and seeing it, from several sources, as a reputable and worthy inclusion.--Kieronoldham (talk) 00:16, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That accusation is baloney, . I have worked on biographies of BPP members who committed terrible crimes and other BPP members who went on to be productive citizens. In all of these cases, their party memberships were very well referenced. Being a member of a movement is not the same as being a member of a political party that had to approve membership. A passing mention in a book about ISIS ideology is not a reliable source for this assertion. Cullen328 (talk) 00:26, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The references are reputable. I've listed at least four on your page and here. The Cawthorne book has an entire section devoted to him. Thx.--Kieronoldham (talk) 00:38, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fighting