Talk:More Irish than the Irish themselves

message: This article could use some internal links. Bearian 13:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I quite agree. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 15:05, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also 

message: I removed this link as it's just silly to compare the descendants of medieval Norman settlers who spoke Irish, intermarried with the Irish and thus became Irish with people who are just letting on to be Irish. If a Brit or Yank moves to Ireland and gets into all of the above they, too, become Irish and by no means "Plastic Paddys". 93.107.7.115 (talk) 10:33, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the reasoning was that a Plastic Paddy is ignorant of Irish realities, and simply assumes a cloak of bogus/trivial "Irish-osity" based on a tenuous link to Ireland herself; all of which is the inverse of "More Irish than the Irish themselves". --Orange Mike  |  Talk 18:57, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Plastic Paddy

message: What is an "about" section?
You would assume the implication of an encyclopedia article is that the entire thing is 'about' the topic indicated in the title. 
Instead, we had an "about" section which was in fact about Norman Ireland and Old English (Ireland), which of course have their own pages.
I am unsure we need a standalone article about this phrase. What we have here is a colloquial phrase describing the phenomenon of Gaelicization. So I see no reason not to merge the article into the equally meagre  Gaelicization page, in the hope of building something that might approach encyclopedic content. 
Perhaps it will then not be necessary any longer to go off on tangents about the medieval history of Ireland to produce the illusion of content. 
In addition, we had  restoring the objectively false claim that this is a "medieval" phrase. While the article is in fact perfectly aware that the phrase originates in 18th-century Irish nationalism. Please do not do this. Deliberate falsification or degradation of article content falls under disruptive editing. --dab (𒁳) 07:23, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "About"

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It is entirely incorrect and ahistorical to say that Old English communities became "Gaelicized" by the late Middle Ages. "Gaelicized" implies they had Gaelic names (they did not -their names were English), spoke the Gaelic language (again no -they spoke English) and adopted the Gaelic legal/political system (they did not). What actually happened was, a significant number of the Old English retained their Catholicism post-Reformation, at a time when most of the rest of Ireland was undergoing a process of Anglicization, which would only accelerate in the following centuries. Rather than the Old English becoming "more Irish than the Irish", it was the Gaels who became "Old English", as the two groups merged to form a common "Irish Catholic" ethnicity (which was linguistically and politically English -not Gaelic - but religiously Catholic).
The claim that the Old English became "more Irish than the Irish" is nothing but an example of a pre-internet meme that's still quite popular among historically uninformed individuals. But it's complicated by the historical record.
There was indeed intermarriage between the Old English and Irish in the 15th Century -even in the "obedient shires" around the Pale -but these unions almost always resulted in the Anglicization of the Irish spouse. There were notable exceptions but they were atypical: a branch of the Burke family, for example, settled out west in Galway and was thoroughly Gaelicized by the late Middle Ages.Jonathan f1 (talk) 17:20, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Many people in past centuries apparently thought differently.  Are you going to dig up their remains from graveyards and try to convert them to your point of view? AnonMoos (talk) 18:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "More Irish" than the Irish?