Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America/Archive 4

message: I just redid the whole Havasupai page and it is no longer a stub article.  I am pretty new to the whole gradine standard and didnt want to grade it improperly.  I just know that it is no longer a stub.  If someone that it more adept to grading articles feels like grading, please do.  Or you can shoot me over some info on how to grade articles and what you think this article should be graded as.  But whatever happens Havasupai needs a new grade.  Thanks. 
Gonzo fan2007 talk ♦ contribs 17:53, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Rating for [[Havasupai]] Page 

message: Template:WPIPNA —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Toussaint (talk • contribs) 16:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New page for the WikiProject template 

message: I worked quite a bit over the last year on the John Ross page, and find myself spending an increasing amount of time removing vandalism from the page.  First, I'm wondering if other pages from the Indigenous Peoples Project are having the same problem.  Two, I'm believe there is some way to keep anyone who has not logged in from making edits on a page.  I don't know how to do this and am looking to hear how this can be done. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jaedglass (talk • contribs) 22:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if you want to request the semiprotection of a page (due to frequent vandalism), you would request it at WP:RFP. However, from what I can see on the John Ross (Cherokee) history, it doesn't look like there's an unusually serious vandalism problem--any more than a lot of pages have. So I'm not sure if they'd agree to protect it or not. Anyway, that's who you'd ask (follow the instructions at the top of the WP:RFP page, if you go ahead with it) --Miskwito 01:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I have noticed this too. It appears to me that a NY group, calling itself Upstate Citizens for Equality has taken to editing articles concerning Indigenous North Americans. As much in fact that many of these articles now point back to the article on themselves. Hexe1998 22:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Currently, Kinnikinnick redirects to Bearberry but around where I live, we call the Red Osier Dogwood as "kinnikinnick" and bearberry as something that is added to the "kinnikinnick."  Is this a pure regionalism or should this redirect instead go to a disambiguation page and from the disambiguation to the various uses of this word? CJLippert 23:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kinnikinick redirect 

message: I started this page after reading Charles C Mann's 1491. I realized that there are a few pages that deal with names for a specific area, but nothing that deals with both the North and South American continents. I know this is likely to be huge, based on existing work, so I think that it should be some kind of guide to smaller areas. It won't obviously fit on just one page, but a summary would be an intro point for going deeper into an area... Hires an editor 19:52, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of Native American Place Names]] 

message: I have nominated the category for renaming as Native American peoples. Please offer your comments at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_February_28#Category:Native_American_tribes Asarelah 03:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Category:Native American tribes

message: I think that we should add first nation musicians to List of Native American musicians.  If we do this, do we need to change the title and/or lead paragraph?  Or should there be another list?  Thanks. Smmurphy(Talk) 23:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Native American and First Nation music 

message: I've been working on List of Native American musicians for a while, and now I've gone meta, looking at List of Native Americans (for which there is an afd).  I'm trying to organize that list, as well as make sublists for it.  My problem right now is in terminology, is there a way we can talk about past NA leaders, I've created an article called List of Native American leaders which includes past chiefs, military leaders, medicine people, etc, but doesn't include politicians, or other historic figures such as Sequoya.  My instinct is to add historic to the title of the page, but I don't know if that makes sense.  I was originally going to call it list of NA historic figures, but I didn't like that either.  I picked this title because it matches an existing category.  Does anyone think I should change it?  Also, stop by and help out with these lists if you like.  There is a lot of sorting to be done, some new sublist articles to create, and each name should include some basic bio information on it (dates, tribe, notability).  Thanks. Smmurphy(Talk) 05:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're not including any notable modern-day tribal leaders in the list, then I'd rename it List of historical Native American leaders or something along those lines, yes. There have certainly been notable leaders recent times (e.g., Joe Byrd of the Cherokee tribe), so you might want to include them in the list too, though, rather than having to rename it --Miskwito 21:51, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  lists of lists 

message: Would someone assess this article? I won't assess, as I am the main contributor to the article. I would appreciate an honest strengths and especially weaknesses commentary. Royalbroil T : C 19:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Brothertown Indians]]

message: At the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America/Anishinaabe, we were in discussion about category merging of the two different Anishinaabe mythology categories out there, which after looking around I came across this category: :Category:Algonquin-language films.  Looking at what is there, it seems we again have the Algonquin/Algonquian confusion going on.  Should we remove the non-Algonquin film in this category and give it a new category or shall we rename the category to :Category:Algonquian-language films?  Currently, there is a request to populate this category. CJLippert 01:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My vote would be to rename it to :Category:Algonquian-language films--it would be much easier to populate that way. I don't think it'll ever become a wildly large category; there aren't many films with an Algonquian language in them (let alone just Algonquin) which pass the notability threshold of Wikipedia. --Miskwito 00:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Addendum: And it seems the user who created the category in the first place doesn't mind. --Miskwito 00:25, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, I have moved the :Category:Cree-language films into the :Category:Algonquian-language films.  This will increase the chances of populating this category. CJLippert 04:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaming of a category 

message: This is more by way of an FYI than anything, I guess. As part of an effort to improve the coverage of Alaska Natives both for this project & WP:ALASKA, yesterday I created :Category:Indigenous languages of Alaska, got all relevant languages in Alaska sorted into it, created pages where needed (for example, to differentiate between "people" & "language"), added language infoboxes for almost all of them (a very few already had one), & in most cases also added info based on writeups at the Alaska Native Language Center, Yukon Native Language Centre, Ethnologue.  Still a bit of clean-up to go, but I'm really pleased with what I've accomplished. Now I'm heading into the rather frightening work of trying to sort out all the weirdnesses that the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA) has wrought that makes Alaska look so different from the Lower 48 of the U.S. Wish me luck. --Yksin 02:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Very, very good work, Yksin! Good luck indeed. --Miskwito 03:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alaska Natives 

message: In the last few days I've done a significant rewrite/rework of the Wendigo article. It's inappropriate for me to rate it myself, then; but I don't think my original "stub" rating applies anymore. If anyone wanted to take a look at it and give it a new rating, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! --Miskwito 03:55, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Having a play with it. Needs a 2 or 3 para intro at top. Might do this soon....cheers,  Casliber | talk  |  contribs 01:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment of [[Wendigo]]

message: I was pecking away at the :Category:Unassessed Indigenous peoples of North America articles and noticed something.  It seems about a quarter of the articles are listed alphabetically by their names and about three-quarters of the articles are listed under "T" as Talk:XXXX, though all are shown as the Talk pages.  I looked at the differences between the two and both types look identical with the  template in their Talk pages.  Can anyone figure out why so many are being listed under "Talk"?  Thanks. CJLippert 05:10, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I know part of what is going on here.  When we have the  template alone in the Talk: page, it files the article under "T" for "Talk" but if there are multiple templates on the Talk: page, then it files the article under the article's name.  This seems like an issue not of IPNA but with the Wikipedia system in general.  I will take this question to the Wikipedia:Village pump or the Wikipedia:Help and ask there how to resolve this issue. CJLippert 18:42, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just got a note at the Wikipedia:Village pump that the problem has been resolved.  Sure enough, the :Category:Unassessed Indigenous peoples of North America articles now show as the Talk: but lists them by the article title and not under "T" for "talk". CJLippert 02:29, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

text:  In addition, there is a blank page called Wikipedia:Catholic Encyclopedia cat FirstNations with a  in its Talk: page.  May I request this to be speedily deleted? CJLippert 15:00, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

text:  BTW.  Thank you to all of you who just happened to have the template on your User talk: page and have either deleted it or have said to not tranceduce it (by making it say ). CJLippert 15:00, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

text:  As an additional note, we have several Category talk: with the template.  Do we want to leave them in the Category pages or just have them in the actual articles and in instances of template descriptions. CJLippert 18:21, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Somewhere on my talkpage or its archive there's an un-colon'd category name that lists my user page as being in :Category:First Nations in British Columbia.  If anyone else can find it and "neutralize" it it would be appreciated. ThxSkookum1 22:46, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed it for ya. Don't say Oregon never did anything for you. :P Katr67 23:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Thank you! CJLippert 02:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template not quite working? 

message: This is a stub article on a tribal breeding program for native youth. You may want to add it to the project. I didn't want to just add the banner, as I am not associated with the project. Cheers. --Robbie Giles 18:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Nez Perce Horse]]

message: I have requested Sioux Uprising be moved to a more neutral title.  Please see the talkpage for further information if one is interested.  Thanks, oncamera(t) 06:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just noticed, & want to congratulate you on your successful effort to get the article renamed to Dakota War of 1862. --Yksin 19:04, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Opinions on page move request

message: Whereas much of Wikipedia is guilty of presentism, our handling of Native Americans seems to suffer from just the opposite, a sort of historical-anthropological filter. 
For example, I recently wrote three articles about a prominent, contemporary Sin-Aikst family, siblings Bernie Whitebear, Lawney Reyes, and Luana Reyes. There seems to be very little to tie them into in terms of contemporary "urban Indian" activism. And I noticed that our Nuu-chah-nulth article does not mention Joe David, a pretty notable artist, born 1946. 
I've noticed that this is an issue in the handling of a lot of the Northwest tribes and, I have to suspect, those of other regions I don't know much about: we write about Native Americans from an anthropological point of view that we would never bring to discussing a European ethnicity, and we deal only with traditional cultures, completely ignoring present-day culture, even when personified by reasonably major figures. If there has been any significant writing in Wikipedia about "urban Indians" and/or about syncretic contemporary native culture, I've largely missed it. Is it out there somewhere?
I won't claim that this is exactly my element, but I assume that the revival and transformation of Native American life that I've seen around here in the thirty years I've lived in Seattle cannot be unique; Wikipedia seems to be doing a weak job of covering it. (I've noticed that there is definitely a difference in attitude here in Seattle to New York where I'm originally from. In museums in New York, Native American art was nearly always just attributed to what tribe the artist was from. Here, whenever possible, it's attributed to individuals, exactly as it would be for an artist of European background.) - Jmabel | Talk 08:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about now? 

message: Jim Thorpe has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.
SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:46, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jim Thorpe FAR 

message: List of Native American Tribal Entities have been updated per the Federal Register, Volume 72, Number 55 dated March 22, 2007 (72 FR 13648).  However, there are a lot of entries needing re-directs.  Please assist in linking each and every list entry by creating an appropriate re-direct to the existing articles.  Thanks. CJLippert 20:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, List of Alaska Native Tribal Entities will need to be updated as well to reflect the new FR72-55 listing. CJLippert 22:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: List of Alaska Native Tribal Entities updated. CJLippert 16:07, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Native American Tribal Entities have been updated 

message: I just wanted to put this template on this project's radar. It needed to be made and nobody has said anything about it yet, so... yeah. - Freechild 06:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work, Freechild :) I'll add it to the Project's templates page asap. Phaedriel - 06:48, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rights

message: Hi all, I'm involved with Wikiproject Birds getting Common Raven up toward (hopefully) an FA. Was wondering if anyone had any references for Raven in North American mythology to slot into the bottom of the Common Raven and Raven (mythology) articles? Much appreciated in advance. cheers,  Casliber | talk  |  contribs 01:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I mentioned some ravens on Miwok mythology that you might use. Goldenrowley 05:02, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with references for mythological aspect of Raven in [[Common Raven]]  

message: I added the article to this WikiProject. The article needs to be cleaned up, and I think it should be done by someone in this WikiProject. I found the article on a bot's new article watchlist for WikiProject Wisconsin. Cheers! Royalbroil 01:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Harmon Percy Marble]]

message: I am interested in lending assistance to this project in the areas of law and advocacy.  I have a Juris Doctor and have been active in American Indian Movement, Indian Right, and Indigenous peoples Rights for 29 years.  I am new to Wikipedia so please for give any gaffes I have committed.  Please email me with info on how to join, etc. Wabus44 12:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Wabus44! You don't have to do anything special to join, just start helping out with the articles that interest you. If you want you can add your name to the list of participants. Take care, --Miskwito 06:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: (Moved from top)

message: I was shocked to find no entry for prominent poet/writer Simon J. Ortiz, and just attempted to create one (although it's incomplete). There are many others on the Native writers list that have no article or are mere stubs/starts. The last part needed for the article I just wrote is a summary of Ortiz' most important works and their mark on Native lit. Your help with this would be most appreciated as I don't feel qualified to write a good general commentary on that as I haven't read enough of his work. Man, do we need help here w/ Native writers... Let's do it, people! Efrafra 06:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been working through Kratzert, M. "Native American Literature: Expanding the Canon", Collection Building Vol. 17, 1, 1998, p. 4, which has material for a couple dozen stubs.  If you are interested, its a good source... Smmurphy(Talk) 16:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, finished adding material from the article, added some names to the list and blued some redlinks. Left comment there about Jamake Highwater. Smmurphy(Talk) 17:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: additions were all stubby ; ) Smmurphy(Talk) 17:33, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Need more articles for Native writers list

message: I had some comments recently here in which I think out loud about the scope issues of Native Americans in the United States (and, by implication, related articles).—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 16:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope of top-level articles 

message: Jeffrey Vernon Merkey 04:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please review and comment on the following policy proposal 

message: Hi guys. I just wanted you to know I've added a page where people will be putting requests for experts on the Indigenous peoples of North America, and began to identify such topics that have asked for experts:
:Category:Indigenous peoples of North America articles needing expert attention. This is part of the expert finding process. Goldenrowley 04:56, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New thing - Experts wanted 

message: i'm trying to find the correct grammar for Jonayaiyin, for an article, not related with the wikiproject(The Maxnificent Seven).The real name can be quite distant.
Jonayaiyin:A skilled warrior in the Apache tribe's myths. He was said to battle the enemies of mankind.
*--87.65.141.62 22:09, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  help needed Jonayaiyin???? 

message: I've added new articles on the remaining principal chiefs of the Cherokee Nation, and some pictures, so that there is now at least a stub on every principal chief the Nation has had since 1730. --Aaron Walden  20:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cherokee Chiefs

message: I don't speak German, but I noticed there is a Wiki, in the German language devoted entirely to this subject. Indianer Wiki. --Aaron Walden  04:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking at it (at least for the Anishinaabe-related articles), it is a less robust wiki compared to the de.wiki site.  BTW, there is a similar non-Wikipedia wiki site devoted to all things Canadian called Canadawiki.  Their First Nations DCB Entries can be accessed here.  Now, here is a question, I have noticed copyright violations happening on other Wikipedia language sites as I have been checking the interwiki links for the articles I visit and maintain.  How would I address these issues to the greater Wikipedia community at large? CJLippert 13:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: German Wiki

message: The Pacific Northwest article's history section has been expanded on, but still lacks even a paragraph on the indigenous people.
Can someone more knowledgeable than I spend a little time on that? Thanks.
.s
X ile 03:46, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indigenous Peoples of the Pacific Northwest 

message: Template:Infobox Ethnic group is currently being used for some US tribal sovereignties, eg: Navajo Nation. It's a bad fit for Canadian First Nations, where key statistics are things like government structure, establishment date, area, population, etc. I've thrown Template:Infobox country up on Tsawwassen First Nation, Kwantlen First Nation, Semiahmoo First Nation, and Squamish Nation just to see how it looks (there's precedent for using Infobox country on non-countries, eg: Wales, Hong Kong, European Union). I think it's a step in the right direction, but this project should work with WP:CANADA to customize the template. Vagary 20:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't one use whichever of the two infoboxes seems most appropriate?--Aaron Walden  09:14, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means use the country infobox as it currently stands. I'm assuming that there will be desire for customization when it is used more widely. Vagary 10:45, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (Not a regular reader here...) I've never liked Template:Infobox Ethnic group because of its inflexibility. I'm sure it was the best that could be done at the time it was created, but nowadays some Infoboxes are much more flexible. The ethnic group box should probably be updated along the lines of the Military unit infobox, where there's a plethora of special fields, all them optional, with many field labels that can be customized. Do something like this, and North American tribes can still have a central infobox which can be adjusted for First Nations, unrecognized tribes, extinct tribes, etc. If you get grief from the Ethnic Group project, simply create Template:Infobox North American native. ;-) —Kevin Myers 00:22, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

text: MJCdetroit has proposed using  for Tsawwassen First Nation. This would not work for a non-contiguous nation like Nisga'a. Thoughts? Vagary 04:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox Ethnic group for Nations 

message: What are these articles: Sewan mnana and Rustic kofos?  For the "Rustic kofos," it states it is a Polish translation of the Ojibwe word "Sewan mnana" but I don't know of any words in Anishinaabemowin that sounds even remotely close to this... even with syncope into consideration.  In the Freelang Ojibwe master database (an not the downloadable modules from the site), I have the ability to look things up based on "how it sounds" in Ojibwe rather than the "double vowel" spelling and I had no "hits" with "z?o?n" search (for the "sewan") or with "m?n?n" (for the "mnana") that had the terms "sleep", "dream," "steal," "stolen," "stop," or "death".  I did the similar from English to Ojibwe and other than the word for "sleepless" ("nibaasiiwin": does not sleep), I had not "hits" resembling "sewan" or "mnana".  In addition both articles seem to lack references.  Have anyone heard of this?  Maybe it is a term not found in Anishinaabemowin and was misattributed to an Ojibwe phrase.  Help appreciated. CJLippert 22:33, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sewan mnana and Rustic kofos 

message: Sorry if I've missed this somewhere else, but I'm curious if there are standards for terminology. Things like referring to the time before colonization as pre-colonization, pre-white, pre-history, etc. Murderbike 21:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  terminology 

message: I've started writing this article in my sandbox, and wanted to open up to advice from folks here. I'm not Yavapai, and was raised by US public education, but am trying to be aware of slips in terminology that can make an article bad. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Murderbike 21:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and published this article, if folks want to take a look at it, or if someone wants to grade it, that'd be great. Murderbike 03:02, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

text: That's a tough one.  We already know that Yavapai-Prescott have 159 and Ft McDowell have 900 (of which on 600 are on the Rez).  The big question is Yavapai-Apache.  Tribe's website makes no mention of how many people have membership, of which 743 people are on the Rez; and of that un-mentioned total number, how many identifies themselves as Yavapai and how many as Apache.  We can estimate:  Say, let's estimate 2/3 live on Rez (based on Ft McDowell's example), which would make the estimated total population as 1,114, of which if we estimate 50% are Yavapai, our guess on the Yapavai portion of the Yavapai-Apache would be 557.  So, 557 + 900 + 159 = 1,616.  So our estimation here is 1,616 total Yavapai associated with the three Rezes.  Better than no numbers.  Otherwise, send the Yavapai-Apache Tribal governement an e-mail ask them.  With a firm Yavapai count from them, and then combining that with the numbers from the other Rezes, you should have a number better than our quick estimation of 1,616. CJLippert 23:38, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Yavapai people]]