Talk:Michael Howard

message: I'd like to know more about his background -- basically, how posh was his upbriging?  If his family were so poor, how did he end up at Peterhouse, one of the poshest Cambridge colleges?  And cambridge tory students are also very posh and their circles are difficult to infiltrate?
:I must own up to having been at Peterhouse, despite coming from a fairly bad comprehensive. It is posh (the college, that is), but not that posh. My answer to your question would be: a combination of talent and hard work. Matve 10:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good question. His father's surname was originally Hecht. I had assumed that the change was made before Michael was born, but a Google search turns up this page, which says he was born Michael Hecht. I'm not sure this is a very reliable source, however. --Zundark 15:01, 31 Oct 2003 (UTC)

text: That article also says his family is Lithuanian, not Romanian - which is it? (I am also reminded of Lord Stockton's jibe about the Thatcher Cabinet containing more Estonians than Etonians.) Adam 15:19, 31 Oct 2003 (UTC)

text: The BBC seems to stick with Transylvanian (and hence Romanian) on each mention - which seems to help the comedian's "he's a vampire" thesis (assisted by the "of the night" quote, naturally) -- Finlay McWalter 18:36, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)

text: Found a more accurate link (which actually works), HTH Phil 15:09, Nov 11, 2003 (UTC)
As I said I know his son so I will get both of them to comment on here! Crowqueen 02:26, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

text: There were famous, even celebrity, models long before the term "supermodel". Twiggy and Jean Shrimpton spring to mind.  But "supermodel" does sound anachronistic in this context.  Perhaps "noted model", "famous model", or "successful model"? -- Finlay McWalter 18:06, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it, doesn't bother me. "Supermodel" was merely the term used in the various news reports I read. Phil 08:56, Nov 14, 2003 (UTC)
----
"The comment was taken as a bitchy reference to his dour demeanour, which she was implying was sinister and almost Dracula-like, as well as linking in to his Romanian ancestry." (my emphasis)
I might be crazy, but isn't it rather in bad taste to refer to a statement made by a member of the British government regarding a member of the Cabinet as "bitchy"?  Barring that, it seems rather blatantly POV, which is not at all acceptable for a man who may end up being asked to kiss hands in a year or two. Wally 19:27, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

text: The next item wasnt ready, and the producer was telling Paxman to fill in time... I had thought this had been discussed somewhere, though I must admit I now cant find the link. Iainscott 10:31, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: There is a film somewhere showing a rerun with Howard effectively interviewing Paxman made about two-and-a-half years later for the 20th anniversary. It was up on the BBC website until, presumably, the 25th anniversary programme was made in late 2004 (I last watched it in early 2004), and I remember it being said in it that Paxman won an award for the interview and admitted to it being prolonged because the technicians were fumbling about for the next item. Though it was rather a coincidence nonetheless. The film gives us an insight into his temperament as well, it is a hoot to watch but sadly it seems to have gone the way of similar footage about him on the On This Day part of the website which I also looked at in early 2004. Crowqueen 14:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Howard's non-standard pronunciation of the word people, concluding on a 'Dark L', adds depth to the caricature for students of phonetics. Many also find humor in his unique pronunciation of certain words, such as "skeyuill", for school, and "incredibull", for incredible. 
I'm not sure where this can really fit in... Evercat 18:19, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: NB - Howard does not use a 'dark L' in 'people' - this is a 'clear L', as in most South Walian accents. The 'dark L' is used by the majority of Brits (and Americans, and others...) in this position. It's his exaggerated 'clear L' in what many people would otherwise consider to be a rather 'posh' accent that has such an impact, I think. Matve 10:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Birth Name and Nationality

message: I like to have the odd quotation in a biog, but I know if I put this in by itself it will be regarded as POV.  So, I'll rest it here, and then when there's a range of quotes maybe it will make it in (crosses fingers).--bodnotbod » .....TALKQuietly)</span> 18:20, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)
*"[The poll tax] was a bold and brave experiment but it didn't work, it was a mistake, I've apologised for it before and I'm happy to do so again." - BBC - December 2003 
It's a true quote, but it is from a biased source. In my own political research, time and again during the 2005 election I was able to prove that the BBC purposely spun its election coverage to belittle or ignore the Tory support on the ground. For example the Sunday before the election, I observed two papers come out wholeheartedly for the Conservative Party (The Sunday Express and the Sunday Telegraph) and two more advocating a Conservative protest vote in order to strengthen the opposition to the Labour Government in the House of Commons (The Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times). However the BBC discussion of the papers deliberately stated that there were no Sunday papers which came out for the Tories however lukewarm their support: a palpable untruth and one which destroyed my faith in anything put out by what is essentially a state television channel with no revenue that is not sourced directly or indirectly from the government. 
Therefore I would not consider BBC quotes to be a reliable source of information. The quote could have been taken out of the general context of the article: Margaret Thatcher did say, for example, "There is no such thing as society". However the extended version of the quotation is "There is no such thing as society, merely a collection of individuals and their families." The bias is in how the quote is reported, not in the actual quote itself. As a junior minister Howard was indeed involved in setting up the poll tax, or more accurately the Community Charge. However a junior minister is necessarily responsible only for administrating and enacting legislation, not responsible for policy (as Howard claimed later, quite rightly, the other way round when he was challenged over the sacking of Derek Lewis and ministerial responsibility for the Prison Service). As a Cabinet minister at the Department of the Environment, Howard put together the Council Tax, replacing the flat-rate Community Charge with one based on a sliding scale dependent on the value of the payee's home. Therefore the actual quote could be taken to mean that Howard is apologising for the mistake but rectifying it when he gained responsibility for policy rather than operations. Unfortunately politics today is reported in soundbites and there are very few attempts particularly in modern broadcasting and print media to look at the finer details in government operations. Crowqueen 21:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Quotations

message: The article says "given Howard's Jewish faith".  I don't believe its shown here (or elsewhere, for that matter) that Howard is of the Jewish faith (indeed, I can't find any mention of his religion, if he has one).  Perhaps this should read instead "given Howard's Jewish ancestry". - John Fader
Howard is a member of St. Johns Wood, a liberal synagogue in London.
I met him and his son in 1999 at a party in London while I was a student. I talked long and hard with his son (to my regret I was far too starstruck to talk to Howard himself, except the usual pleasantries, who I admire as a sort of political mentor) as I was going through a spiritual crisis myself and wanted to convert to Judaism given that I could accept a belief in God but not in Christ's absolute infallibility, and the exclusive nature of fundamentalist Christianity at the university CU was getting me into a panic that I would have to toe that line. I can indeed confirm that Howard is Jewish and raised his son in the Reform tradition, but his son "completed" his faith by converting to Christianity at Eton. I actually stayed in touch with Nicholas Howard for a while after and can explain that the UFO incident was not actually a UFO but a false alarm. Crowqueen 11:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Jewish faith"?

message: :Crime fell by an unprecedented 18% during his term as Home Secretary and when he left office nearly a million fewer crimes were being committed than four years previously
I see this was added and reverted. So is it true or not? :-) Evercat 18:31, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I have my doubts, but I hit the rollback button by accident when I just meant to comment it out and question whether there were any sources for this! I note that the anon IP who put it in has no other contributions to Wikipedia on record. -- Arwel 18:39, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: 18 percent

message: I've contacted Michael Howard's office, who confirm that Owlperson is a hoaxer. I've indef blocked User:Owlperson and User:Crowqueen. Tyrenius 13:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted back, keeping an anon edit and only removing those of crow, owl and myself. Good edits can be restored but best to start as if this hadnt happened, SqueakBox 21:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hoaxer

message: Dovea 19:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: done, only 2 years late... --Lemming64 16:53, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs a photo 

message: I know this isnt political but should some info  be included on the UFO incident which took place at Howrds house in the 1990's? Supposedly the fire service was called out and firemen "observed" something above the Howards house.--Redblossom 21:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  THE UFO INCIDENT? 

message: The article currently claims Michael Howard as a second cousin of John Howard.  But John Howard's family have, according to Wikipedia, borne that surname for multiple generations, while Michael Howard's parents adopted it within his lifetime.  Is someone pulling our legs on this?  Nandt1 (talk) 23:57, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Questioning relationship with John Howard, former Australian PM

message: User Daicaregos tells me that under some sort of Wiki convention, Neil Kinnock is Welsh not British, so to be consistent I've chaned Michael Howard's nationality to Welsh. Ausseagull (talk) 16:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you provide a link to the where the convention has been agreed? Depending on how it is phrased it is going to have a major impact on how we handle articles about British politicians. For example, is John Prescott Welsh now? Road Wizard (talk) 18:45, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The current position is outlined here. Wikipedia:Nationality_of_people_from_the_United_Kingdom However this is not a policy, there was no consensus on this matter and many of us want it sorted out. There is no right or wrong answer, What ever seems more suitable should be used. So in the case of a football player who plays for Wales, use Welsh. However Michael Howard is known for being a leader of a British party and until this moment i never even knew he was Welsh. We should state where he was born, but he should be considered and described as British. BritishWatcher (talk) 19:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

text: I have consistently referred Ausseagull to WP:UKNATIONALS, which includes the sub-subsection Do not enforce uniformity. My response also included the advice "As a general rule it is best to discuss proposed changes to nationality on the talk pages first." I had assumed that achieving consensus to change prior to making any changes, was implicit. I agree that Michael Howard's nationality should be noted as British. I have never heard of him self-identify as anything else. Daicaregos (talk) 20:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you ever heard him self-identify as British? A few sourced examples might help? Has he self-identified as Jewish? Ausseagull (talk) 22:05, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  PS I've just checked and Leo Abse is referred to as Welsh, not British. Ausseagull (talk) 22:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Welsh or British

message: I removed "released in 2005 under the Freedom of Information Act failed to corroborate this last quote." from the end of the paragraph about the "Did you threaten to overrule Derek Lewis" interview.  Seems to be a bit 'meta' and perhaps intended as an invisible comment? --81.23.54.142 (talk) 22:06, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentence Fragment 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Controversies section references potentially racist remarks about the Anglo-Boer War. These comments are currently also attributed to a different Michael Howard - Michael Howard (historian). Not sure how to verify which one it was but I doubt that both Michael Howards appeared on the same edition of Newsnight and said the same thing.
2.96.83.150 (talk) 18:26, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Special:Contributions/105.227.223.141 added it to both articles. It is made very clear that it's the other Howard, in . -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:37, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Michael Howard 

message: Greetings.  We both want this article to be fair.  I added the Times reference to the Somali business interests bit + an internal link & thought at the time it was accurate.  I'll check it again in a few days but the Times is a valid UK wp:Suggested sources#currentnews which unlike WSJ is a source many UK editors use. The Daily Mail is a dodgy tabloid, most recently in disgrace just last week -see Nigel Farage's car tampering. Feel free to comment, otherwise I'll update in a few days.  Regards JRPG (talk) 14:21, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Somali business interests 

message: I'm removing the controversy re blood libel because the US source is not one of the WP:Suggested sources#Current news. It has so seriously misunderstood the context that it's in danger of having any UK readers convulsed in fits of laughter -and yet it purports to believe it is discussing a very serious issue. I didn't like Ann Widecombe's totally unfair personal comments re "something of the night about Howard" but to a UK audience, it raised thoughts about Dracula -which is exactly what the Guardian portrayed.  Few have heard of blood libel let alone associated it with Howard. JRPG (talk) 16:32, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  FrontPage Magazine and blood libel 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The first paragraph of this article says that he served as Secretary of State for Employment and Secretary of State for the Environment and Home Secretary, but it could put in the years in which Michael Howard served these posts. Vorbee (talk) 08:26, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Years

message: Does this read correctly? Does he really have eight O and A levels?
He obtained eight O-levels, and A-levels, gaining a place at Peterhouse at Cambridge University.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Indieshack (talk • contribs) 02:06, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It is probably accurate, but could be phrased better. It means he obtained eight O-levels and an unspecified number of A-levels. It was typical for school students who aspired to attend university to have around eight O-levels, and typically three A-levels. However as this is unsourced I will remove it, particularly as it is barely noteworthy. Verbcatcher (talk) 13:56, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It used to say "He obtained eight O-levels and his subsequent A-levels earned him a place at Peterhouse..." DuncanHill (talk) 14:11, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eight A levels?