Talk:Varvara Stepanova

message: *Varvara Stepanova: Lecture on Constructivism, 22 December 1921.In: Peter Noever: Aleksandr M. Rodchenko - Varvara F. Stepanova. The Future Is Our Only Goal. Munich: Prestel, 1991, pp. 174-178. "From here, Constructivism proceeds to the negation of all art in its entirety, and calls into question the necessity of a specific activity of art as creator of a universal aesthetic."
*Rodchenko, A. and V. Stepanova (1975) [1920] 'The Programme of the Productivist Group', in Benton and Benton (eds), pp. 91-2. "1. Down with art, long live technical science. 2. Religion is a lie. Art is a lie. 3. Destroy the last remaining attachment of human thought to art. . . . 6. The collective art of today is constructive life."
*Larry Shiner. “The Invention of Art: A Cultural History”. University of Chicago Press, 2003, p. 256.“If the provocations of Tzara seem merely naughty and those of Breton overly esoteric, the anti-art declarations of the Russian constructivists were potentially of greater social importance, given constructivism's roots in marxist theory and its opportunity to help build a new society.” (...) ""The spell of painting was broken and ""construction"" had taken its place for artists such as Aleksandr Rodchenko, Vavara Stepanova, and Lyubov Popova, who combined it with socialist commitment to become leaders of the First Working Group of Constructivists. One of their early manifestos declared: 1. Down with art, long live technical science. 2. Religion is a lie. Art is a lie. 3. Destroy the last remaining attachment of human thought to art.... 6. The collective art of today is constructive life. (Elliot 1979,130; Lodder 1983,94-99) And what should take the place of "art"? Construction. One should simply participate in producing a useful object."
Armando Navarro (talk) 01:00, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Constructivism isn't an anti-art movement; rather, it seeks to engineer a dialectical overcoming of art to integrate the aesthetic with wider social reality, much as, in a different way, the surrealists hoped to. That isn't anti-art, it's art's transcendence. It is misleading to group this project together with the negativity of Dada. If you were to follow the logic you're offering through, ALL modernist art would be categorised in this way, at which point the categorisation clearly becomes nonsensical. DionysosProteus (talk) 11:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, of course it is possible to isolate quotations out of context and thereby to identify modernist art as anti-art. But you fail to address the specific point raised above. Following your method, we could add the anti-art category to all modernists on the basis, say, of Adorno's definition. But that would be a little silly, wouldn't it. DionysosProteus (talk) 13:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

text: The inclusion of a link to another article does not imply some kind of equivalence. It only implies that further reading may be of interest. Therefore I don't think there is that much harm done by linking some articles in the "See also" section to "Anti-art." But to make it more clear, maybe a note could be put after the link, stating that there is no implied equivalence or even a necessarily strong connection. Or perhaps that such linkage is disputed. The point I am trying to make is that the way out of our dilemma lies in nuanced language, carefully placed. Anyone agree? Bus stop (talk) 18:42, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  References which support that anti-art be mentioned in the article 

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