Talk:Christian theological controversy

message: I think this article is not really about Christian theological controversy in the general sense, but really about what it calls "discernmentalists". How can it focus on today's disputes about charismatic gifts when there are issues like the role of women in ministry, of gays in ministry and in the church at large, and even the virginity of Mary and the real resurrection of Jesus Christ still being disputed?
It also labels some positions in the list as "key RCC doctrines" when in some cases they are caricatures of doctrines, in others they are not full doctrines at all but merely commonly held beliefs among laymen. It also ignores the Eastern Orthodox Church, or the fact that the RCC and EOC were the same church for the first 1,000 years when many of these "doctrines" were promulgated.
The only question I have is whether to submit this to Votes for Deletion, or move it to discernmentalism or discernment ministries, where the idiosyncratic views of these "discernmentalists" can be properly labeled as such. Wesley 16:30, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Discernment

message: It is my belief that this article is getting closer to NPOV. However, the article still needs improvement. Here are some ideas:
*Expanding the intro paragraph, and rewriting it to include a link to Christian theology in the first sentence.
*Cutting down, rewriting, or removing the paragraphs in the "Background" section that deal with translational difficulties. Many of the disputes listed in the article (especially the early heresies) have nothing to do with the difficulties inherent in translation.
*Making sure that the treatment of Discernmentalism is NPOV.
*Tightening the discussion of modern disputes. In particular, the description of the dispute over sexual orientation appears to create a balance between the two sides of the issue, but (IMO) actually goes farther in describing the negative effects of opposition to gay rights than it goes in describing those of support for gay rights.
*Considering renaming the page. I think that something like Controversy in Christian theology would be better title for this article, in part because it would sound better, but primarily because I think that it would fit current unofficial naming conventions better. At present, it seems to me that the article on "Christian foo" describes either the view of foo in the Christian religion (such as Christian love) or the way individual Christians have treated foo (such as Christian art). However, "theological controversy" is not an element of the Christian religion in the way that something like love is (in fact, it describes arguments over treatments of such elements), and, unlike art, is not the sort of thing that involves individual Christians. I realize that my reasoning could be tighter, but I think there's something to what I'm saying here. NatusRoma 30 June 2005 06:28 (UTC)
Dear Sir the people or person who wrote the article are not only ignorant of facts but not well read of church history. Yes the RCC and the EOC churches were one and then in 1054 AD the Roman Catholic Church went its own way and started to teach heretical doctrines and then it spawned its heretical daughters the Protestant reformation if any one take time to study church history, the Eastern Orthodox church teach the same and is one in the same as the early Church.  This is confirmed by church history, the Bible and oral and apostolic tradition. It is the ones who are in a lie, the Protestants who have the gaul to point fingers at the Eastern Orthodox and call us heretics.  User:JOSEPHGODLESKI
::I just retyped it and removed the uppercase lettering.  Given the typing of the user's name I suspect rather than being rude, he has a penchant for typing in caps.  Storm Rider (talk) 22:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed tasks for achieving NPOV and improving the article in general

message: I'm not entirely sure how to make it all work. However some of the statements on Christian Science and Mormonism struck me as basically just insults so I changed them a bit. Also Scientism does not link to Christian Science as far as I know so I took that out. Scientism I believe is more like a religion of science or science becoming like a religion or life-philosophy to a person. Correct?
I'm worried about putting a link to the Gospel of Luke on the Purgatory portion. In fact I think I might delete that. Oddly the Catholic Encyclopedia doesn't mention the relevance, but the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible clearly does. It highlights
And when thou goest with thy adversary to the prince, whilst thou art in the way, endeavour to be delivered from him: lest perhaps he draw thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the exacter, and the exacter cast thee into prison. I say to thee, thou shalt not go out thence, until thou pay the very last mite.
Which Catholics could interpret as a reference to a place where you are imprisoned until you pay "the very last mite." Sorry for any offense, but I'm mentioning it here as a prelude to deleting the link in the article.
I have concern over the general statement in this paragraph of the article:
"Most present day controversy revolves around the Pentecostal/Charismatic movements, largely a product of the 20th century. Conservative Evangelical/Reformed theology typically teaches that the charismata, or "sign gifts" of the Holy Spirit, were only given to the early church, and died out permanently after that."
First, it is doubtful that the charismata are the key controversy. More important and prevasive controversies include:
1. How to read the Bible and history.
2. How does the church relate to the world, particular world philosophy, politics, ideology, social thought, and ethics.
When presented in this manner, they are not limited to a small segment of the world's Christian population. For example, in the two-thirds world, and first world centres in the southern hemisphere, Pentecostal Christian religion is huge. The controversy for us regarding them is how they relate to the larger Christian community. Their own controversies are about leadership and politics.
Second, Evangelicals don't typically teach cessationalism, though some Reformed groups do. The charismata are now and important part of the evangelical experience. What is controversial is the recent introduction of these experiences in the last decade or so into mainstream, conservative churches due to influence from Third Wave charismatics.
Just some clarfifications. --Brenton Dickieson 10:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some editing 

message: Discernment Ministries redirects here, though the intro sentence of Christian countercult movement mentions "discernment ministries" as an alternate term for that movement. Should that redirect be moved? CDC (talk) 22:43, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It certainly sounds like it should. Wesley 14:25, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Discernment Ministries]] redirect 

message: I think this article should be merged into Christian theology. Doesn't seem to have enough substance to stand alone. PhatJew 11:03, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps it should be converted to "List of Christian theological controversies" and the information not suitable to list be merged.  I think the list itself is useful.  Goldfritha 00:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this article should merge with the article on Christian theology because all Christian theology has been hammered out in the heat of controversy.  Furthermore, the "Present Day Distinctions" section fails to meet any standard of scholarliness for the reasons Loudguy and others who have written above mention and several more.  I hope this does not sound too condescending, but it sounds like it was written by someone who has done all of his or her reading on the internet.  The term "discernmentalist" is not in popular use and thus represents a pejorative term that violates NPOV.  There are other points I could elaborate on.  I strongly believe this section should be scrapped and remade when the two articles merge.--Will3935 23:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge with theology