Talk:Icarus

message: I propose a "See Also" link to Icarus imagery in contemporary popular music and possibly cut/pasting everything under "in popular culture" heading regarding music references, onto suggested page.
thefinmanTALK--Thefinman 19:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal for link/merger

message: I am cutting the popular culture section and reposting it below.  This section needs to be written so that it is not an indiscriminate list of information, and actually uses sources to discuss the influence that the Icarus story has had on the arts. CaveatLectorTalk 21:30, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular culture section 

message: See Icarus imagery in contemporary films and television.
* In the U2 song "Even Better Than the Real Thing" Bono sings, "We're free to fly the crimson sky, the sun won't melt our wings tonight"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.55.11.52 (talk) 03:58, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: In popular culture

message: I removed the bit below from the References section because I couldn't see the relevance to the article (at least, as a reference)
*Adam Guettel, song, "Icarus", from Saturn Returns (recorded as Myths and Hymns)
EyeSereneTALK 20:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed from article

message: * There is a large statue of Icarus in the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.96.65.83 (talk) 20:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Statue of Icarus

message: I think it should be noted that Bobby Jindal's behavior closely resembles that of Icarus.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.32.180 (talk) 18:18, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Sorry, but you don't have an article yet on WP. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:52, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

text: No longer an issue? Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Is there a specific reference? Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit requests 

message: I'd like to add another reference in the "reference in modern works" section.
I'd like this addition to be done somewhat similiar to this:
Artist: Diablo
Title: Icaros
Date: 2008
Album/Note: Icaros (album)
More information about this particular addition can be found on this wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icaros_(album)
I know the spelling of "Icarus" is different in this case, but I personally believe it suffices for a listing in that particular section.
Thank you for your time!
TheMirroringShadow (talk) 20:54, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from TheMirroringShadow, 4 June 2010 

message: So...I just realized that the second sentence of the first paragraph of the "Escape From Crete" section has a spelling error. It says: Daedalus, the superior craftsman, was exiled because he gave Minos' daughter, Ariadne, a clew." Who the heck spelled "Clue" wrong? Really? Did you never see Blues Clues?" Seriously, whoever edited that paragraph, I hope you realize that you indubitably need to go remember third grade, where you recieved "F"s in spelling and grammar, and cease from posting anything on Wikipedia ever again. People actually look at this site, and it doesn't benefit from idiots forgetting to use a simple spell check. Perhaps in the future you should do your word processing on Microsoft Word before uploading it to Wikipedia. The computer's spell-check could benefit you in ways that you couldn't even image. However, I suppose it's in your grammatical interest that you refrained from using a double negative.
:...Wow. Thank you for feeling so strongly about the accuracy of Wikipedia; it's too often we get people who complain about it but don't try to fix it. However, your passion about this particular example is misguided; please see the note on the page. "Clew" means ball of yarn or string, and our word "clue" descends from it.   07:31, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling Error 

message: The myth of Icarus has him flying too close to the sun so that the wax on his wings melt and he loses his feathers and then falls into the sea.  This article suggests that he flies too close to the sea and that dampness causes the wax to soften.  This is plain wrong. The true myth can be found in any book of greek mythology; or see Encyclopaedia Brittanica, or any other internet source etc. Hotbutteredmuffinpops (talk) 23:10, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Apt use of the dog metaphor. I'd also note (as I said on another talk page) that there isn't much discussion of what the myth meant in Greek or Roman culture, how it relates to the Cretan cycle of myth as a whole, and so on.  Two adverbs ("philosophically" and "analogically") bear almost the full weight of interpretation, without any examples. The culture-refs section is treated as a list, rather than presented as an integrated discussion of how and why the myth is depicted and reinterpreted in other periods. Certain myths go in and out of artistic fashion, and it's interesting to find scholarship that explains why, for instance, Prometheus was such a popular subject for Romanticism. Hope someone can adopt the article and beef it up. Cynwolfe (talk) 14:39, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Searching reveals a classically educated British administrator writing about Icarus and Jatayu. But this puts the causation the other way around (and Google Books is misleading; it was published in 1829 at the height of the Romantic craze for Sanskrit). It is dated and isolated. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:33, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems with this article 

message: In the modern music section, I would like the song Ikarus by the artist Unheilig added. The year of the song release is 2001.
See lyrics for relevance: http://www.lyricstime.com/unheilig-ikarus-lyrics.html
Thanks
: Done If there is a specific line you would like placed in the "notes" column just make another request. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 06:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from jjvarghese, 3 August 2010 

message: |-
|Joni Mitchell||Heijira|Amelia|| 1987 || "Like Icarus ascending, on wonderful, foolish arms"
|-
212.219.188.146 (talk) 14:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Thanks, Stickee (talk) 23:59, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 212.219.188.146, 22 October 2010 

message: I've removed the following comment by User:99.155.145.199 from article space: 'What is needed in the "Modern Music" section are references to Paul Winter's many variations on a very early song, "Icarus."' Haploidavey (talk) 22:29, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment moved from article

message: It is an embedded list, it is mostly unreferenced, it is mostly popular culture and trivia.  Do we need this?  The list could be made endless.  Maybe a category is a better alternative?  I'd rather see this section deleted. --Fama Clamosa (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well-reasoned, and heartily agreed. Haploidavey (talk) 19:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well reasoned? Hark! There is life on other planets! Were Wikipedia anything of the resource that the commentary here suggests it is, I would consider the recommendation for deletion-- at best-- a topic for debate; one side of an argument yet, nonetheless, poorly reasoned. References to models does not reasoning make. On the contrary, I believe basing the argument on the existence of an embedded list reeks of boredom. Subsequent commentary in support thereof suggests, perhaps, a disambiguation node may need authoring. Post-deletion, readers in search of the former content are likely to come upon an even more abhorrent Wikimedia resource in the list of elements of popular-music (never mind popular culture, of course). I admire the obvious sense of liberty here, yet ever disheartened by the results. And time is wasting. Jsabarese (talk) 15:21, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, could you repeat your point more clearly?  I should confess that I don't object to so-called trivia lists (I think I'm in the minority on that), but prefer that they be independent list articles. I think it's very interesting to see how a myth continues to live: Allusions to Icarus in popular culture would be my preferred title. I have elsewhere satirized the term "cultural depictions," because no one can explain to what non-cultural depictions would be (Icarus's face appearing miraculously in kudzu?). To me the problem in the Icarus article is that it had become disproportionate — people kept endlessly adding to the list of allusions, but nobody was developing the body of the article. The information can be retrieved. Cynwolfe (talk) 16:25, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

text: The first paragraph of the section, which has a footnote, shows how this sort of thing should be done: not a mere random list, but a look at how the myth works. This was contributed by Pmanderson. Cynwolfe (talk) 20:33, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

text: PMA's edit is indeed useful. The rest (everything beneath the section tag) seems pointless. Haploidavey (talk) 21:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Feeling bold, I simply reworked the article.  It still need a lot of work.  --Fama Clamosa (talk) 21:45, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead should summarise the article content. Your stripped down version gives an overview but the original gave telling context and links. With equal boldness, I'll restore the full version in the main article, minus an appropriate heading. Haploidavey (talk) 22:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I was doing something like that and had an edit conflict. Cynwolfe (talk) 22:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That might have been me. Go ahead, I'll desist. Haploidavey (talk) 22:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks both of you!  The article still need a lot of work, but we can now at least see the contour of what it should be. --Fama Clamosa (talk) 22:19, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

text: What does anyone think about the validity of an article along the lines of the redlink above? Cynwolfe (talk) 14:13, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We have a list-ish Greek mythology in popular culture, with subheadings for particular deities. It's far from complete and there's next to no analysis - the whole "Popular culture" section of Hermes has just been redirected there. Hades is in the list and has an article. We could do the same here, yes? but I'm not at all sure where the chronological cut-off should be. Haploidavey (talk) 17:34, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: A list of Greek mythology in popular culture strikes me as impossible — it's virtually infinite. Note the proliferating tags at the top of the article. If a figure has a substantial Nachleben, it should get its own article. I prefer articles that present the items in some kind of meaningful fashion, that is, how is it that a figure sparks renewed interest among writers or artists? Elsewhere, I've given the example of  Persephone among the Pre-Raphaelites and poets such as Swinburne. Sometimes this will be sparked by new archaeology or mythography at the time. Sometimes art historians will compare versions. With Icarus you have the interrelation of Landscape with the Fall of Icarus, Landscape with the Fall of Icarus (poem), and Musée des Beaux Arts (poem).  I see the problem as a difference between subject matter and allusion. I mean, there's a difference between a sculpture called Icarus and a one-line mention of Icarus in a song lyric. Many of the items on the Icarus list are mere allusions; I wonder whether all the relevant items from the recently deleted list are represented in Icarus imagery in contemporary popular music, a spillway Wetman created back in 2007 and to which the Icarus article doesn't even link. Lists of allusions are OK by me, but in their own list article. I'll try to address this continuing problem in a small way by making sure that article is at least linked prominently. Cynwolfe (talk) 19:05, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, looking at the deleted material here are my thoughts. The deleted table needs to be collated with  Icarus imagery in contemporary popular music; I rather like the tabular form, but maybe others disagree? If not, this would then be a matter of pasting the table into the existing article, and then adding cells for the items already listed there. It would be nice if the table could be made sortable by artist (probably the default), song title, and date. I haven't done a sortable table before, and the task as a whole is rather daunting, but hey, let me give it a try and see whether I run screaming from the screen. For the remaining material on the deleted table, I would propose Allusions to Icarus in literature and Allusions to Icarus in film and television. There may be pop culture references in other media, however. So I'm more likely to make an attempt on the music list, which has a head start. To clarify, I'm advocating the word "allusions" for the lists, because reinterpretations of the Icarus myth — actual retellings, or paintings with Icarus as subject matter — should be dealt with more discursively as part of the continuing mythological tradition. Allusions ≠ trivia. I could be wrong. I mostly feel out of step on WP these days. Cynwolfe (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved the deleted table to  Icarus imagery in contemporary popular music and incorporated most of the preexisting list. The items I didn't get to are posted on the talk page. I don't intend to do more, so someone else may want to take a look. Someday I might delve into the other Icarus list material, but not today. Cynwolfe (talk) 20:56, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting "References in modern work" section 

message: To reiterate or expand on the edit summaries, the issues with the Jatayu paragraph are:
* The paragraph cites no sources, neither the source of the Jatayu narrative (vaguely mentioning "Indian mythology"), nor a scholar who compares J. to Icarus. Without the latter, it's OR.
* It was plopped in the middle of the section "Classical tradition" (here's a book on what that means), which deals with the reception of the Icarus myth per se in later art and literature; when properly sourced, this comparative material needs to be placed in its own section called "Comparative mythology" or something like that.
Thanks for understanding that this is not an attempt to keep the material out, but to integrate it properly. Cynwolfe (talk) 11:49, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jatayu 

message: The Linear B word for "Angelos" is A-KE-RO.  Is there any relationship between A-KE-RO and the name Ikaros? Washi (talk) 18:41, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  A-KE-RO 

message: — Assignment last updated by WrittenasRae (talk) 01:11, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: HUM 202 - Introduction to Mythology