Talk:Antoun Saadeh

message: I don't feel that this paragraph is NPOV
:His thoughts occupy a unique position among contemporary "Arab" social thinkers and philosophers for giving both philosophy and social science a prominent role in the development of a social ideology, for viewing nationalism as a tool to transform traditional society into a dynamic and progressive one, and for his view on secularization which went beyond the socio-political aspects of the question into its philosophical dimensions. 
Wikipedia should limit itself to describe Saade's thoughts, not present them as unique--equitor 19:21, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
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The problem is the writer of this article and many readers are very much politically oriented even in reading a Philosophical subject dealing with social or historical extends. Syrian10 (talk) 04:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Top

message: I added the following scholarly references describing the Sa'adeh's Fascist and Nazi influences.  Please comment here in the inclusion of these facts. Histopher Critchens (talk) 11:26, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed, and removed the part about the anthem. There is no similarity.
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Daniel Pipes does not qualify to be neutral author who may speak about Saadeh. Daniel Pipes worked to stop the funding of middle eastern studies.you know what that means.Syrian10 (talk) 14:36, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Scholarly references for Fascist and Nazi influences

message: These claims make no sense as the SSNP was founded in 1932.  Please use causality and logic (or at least claim that the SSNP looked to Mussolini and Ataturk, both far more supportable with actual documentation) 72.152.78.91 (talk) 19:18, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: However, the German Nazi party was somewhat internationally famous after the Beer hall putsch of 1923 and the publication of Mein Kampf in 1925/1926, and in 1932 it was already fairly clearly well on its way to power.  I don't know about the details of the sources, but I'm afraid there is some visual resmblance between the symbols... AnonMoos (talk) 11:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

text: There are plenty of references. Are you saying they're made up, wrong, or what? Rd232 talk 01:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What references?  You mean the statements by westerners and zionists that Saadeh was influenced by Hitler?  Where are the references in the writings of Saadeh or in the history of the Party that demonstrate that he was influenced by Hitler or by Nazi ideology.  It is easy for so-called "experts" and "intellectuals" to throw haphazard accusations such as this.  There is more evidence in the writings of Winston Churchill that Churchill was influenced by Hitler and by Nazi ideology, yet I don't see wikipedia make such claims in its article on churchill.  Churchill, for example, when referring to the rights of Palestinians, stated: "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."  Further, even in reference to Hitler himself, Churchill declared in 1937, in his book "Great Contemporaries":"One may dislike Hitler’s system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as indomitable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Syrian77 (talk • contribs) 12:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The references you ask for (from the subject's writings, etc) are no doubt in the academic references cited. If you have a suggestion about improving the Winston Churchill article, go there and propose it, it's not relevant here. Rd232 talk 22:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

text: "westerners and zionists" Hum, yeah, right. About how you are analyzing the primary material yourself instead of citing secondary sources, see the policy about not engaging into original research. About "what references", see rd232's reply. --Enric Naval (talk) 22:29, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

text: As discussed previously, he didn't very closely model himself on Hitler, but there were definite general fascist influences, including the shape of the "Hurricane" symbol, and the title زعيم za`īm, which was a pretty direct translation of the fascist titles duce (Italian) / conducător (Romanian) / führer / caudillo (Spanish) etc. AnonMoos (talk) 16:02, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claims of Nazi model are erroneous 

message: There are fundamental differences between the two ideologies.  Too many to list here, starting with the fundamental definition of a nation. The Nazism is based on the master race and race hierarchy ideology where the SSNP is based on a the concept of a multi-race nation embracing its citizens regardless of their race, religion, or origin.  Propaganda is a multi-process scheme to poison public opinion.  Propagandist starts by taking over the mass media/entertainment, then by making a few armatures (in their domain) famous depicting them as experts in their domain, then dictating to those armatures/imbeciles what to say, and when to say it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.168.152.235 (talk) 13:34, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: As discussed previously, he didn't very closely model himself on Hitler, but there were definite general fascist influences, including the shape of the "Hurricane" symbol, and the title زعيم za`īm, which was a pretty direct translation of the fascist titles duce (Italian) / conducător (Romanian) / führer / caudillo (Spanish) etc. AnonMoos (talk) 16:02, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: 2016

message: Someone removed :category:fascists and asked "why?". The answer is: because of the multiple reliable sources showing the fascist influences in Saadeh and on the creation of his party. To those sources you can add Time magazine , "A history of fascism" by historian Stanley G. Payne , "The struggle over Lebannon" by Tabitha Petran (another historian?) , "The conscience of Lebanon" by Mordechai Nisan , etc. The google books search shows quite a few restricted view books that seem to be saying the same thing. --Enric Naval (talk) 02:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't care either way, but the sources given in the article are scholarly and substantial, and your assertion that they are biased is worth nothing; you'll need to provide substantial verifiable reliable sources to contradict the weight of these (WP:V / WP:RS). Also don't confuse Nazism and fascism. Rd232 talk 03:30, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

text: First of all, the sources that you have brought up, Adel Bshara's "Syrian Nationalism" and Haytham A. Kader's biography of Antoun Saadeh as well as his "Ideology of the Syrian Social Nationalist Party", which you describe as "much more well-versed in the Social Nationalist ideology and have a much better grasp of the history of the SSNP" actually support the argument that Saadeh was a Fascist. Bshara's and Kader's works show the SSNP as a Fascist group, mainly due to several of the group's traits: the adoption of a reversed swastika as the party's symbol, the singing of the party's anthem to Deutschland über alles, the development of a cult of the leader (Saadeh), the advocation of totalitarian government, the glorification of an ancient pre-Christan past, and the organic whole of the Syrian Volk or nation. Second, as for these writing of Saadeh in which he "cleary attacked and criticized" Nazism and Fascism, I would like to see them, as the writings of Saadeh that I have read appear (at least to me) to adovcate Fascist ideals. In my opinion, Saadeh is, most assuredly, a Fascist, but if you can prove otherwise, I will believe and support you. Cheers! --Laurinavicius (talk) 21:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that Adel Shaba's "Syrian Nationism" is an unpublished Master thesis (footnote 14), and that Haytham A Kader's biography is also unpublished outside of SSNP's website. I have failed to find any other works by these two authors, or any independient reviews of their work, published or not. --Enric Naval (talk) 23:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "fascists" category 

message: ALL reliable sources mentioning the origins or the flag say the same thing about the nazi/fascist influences and about the flag being a swastika. The sources plainly state those things as direct facts. Wording it as "allegued by some sources" or "seen by some" is misrepresentating the weight of the views in the sources. --Enric Naval (talk) 22:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  weasel wording and misrepresentation of sources 

message: Sadeh himself said:
I want to use this opportunity to say that the system of the Syrian Social Nationalist Party is neither a Hitlerite nor a Fascist one, but a pure social nationalist one. It is not based on useless imitation, but is instead the result of an authentic invention -- which is a virtue of our people.
:Sa'adeh himself declared that "the system of the Syrian Social Nationalist Party is neither a Hiterlite nor a Fascist one". However, actions speak louder than words, and Sa'adeh's actions speak quite loudly to me. As Enric Naval put it "ALL credible sources" say the same thing about Sa'adeh's relationship with Facism. Here are the facts, which is a direct quote from a summary I wrote earlier on this page: "First of all, the sources that you have brought up, Adel Bshara's "Syrian Nationalism" and Haytham A. Kader's biography of Antoun Saadeh as well as his "Ideology of the Syrian Social Nationalist Party", which you describe as "much more well-versed in the Social Nationalist ideology and have a much better grasp of the history of the SSNP" actually support the argument that Saadeh was a Fascist. Bshara's and Kader's works show the SSNP as a Fascist group, mainly due to several of the group's traits: the adoption of a reversed swastika as the party's symbol, the singing of the party's anthem to Deutschland über alles, the development of a cult of the leader (Saadeh), the advocation of totalitarian government, the glorification of an ancient pre-Christan past, and the organic whole of the Syrian Volk or nation. Second, as for these writing of Saadeh in which he "cleary attacked and criticized" Nazism and Fascism, I would like to see them, as the writings of Saadeh that I have read appear (at least to me) to adovcate Fascist ideals." In all of the writings and works of Sa'adeh that I have read or seen, Sa'adeh has greatly promoted Facist ideals, and this one quote that you brought up is the only thing I have yet to see in which Sa'adeh attempts to disasociate himself with Nazism and Fascism ideologies. As all credible sources that I have seen or heard of (including Sa'adeh's writings) show that he was influenced by Fascist and Nazi ideology, advocated its usage, and implemented substantial amounts of it into his own party, Sa'adeh is indeed, in my own eyes, a Fascist. If you have more credible sources that show Sa'adeh to not be a Fascist, please bring them up. In the meantime, your edit will have to be reverted, as all credible sources point in the opposite direction on this topic. My regards, Laurinavicius (talk) 01:19, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever your argument is you can't delete a direct quote from the person himself; this is against Wikipedia rules. And another thing many academic scholars would say that sources from people like Daniel Pipes are not even close to "credible"; if you do just some research..minute research..you will find out that Pipes works for a Zionist think-tank and almost all his work is tainted with a political agenda.George Al-Shami (talk) 01:40, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing out that you can't delete a direct quote from the person who the article is about as I had never known that that was against Wikipedia rules. Also, I have done background research on Pipes and I do know that he is a extremely pro-Zionist "Islamophobe". However, the only usage of Pipes' works are in regards to the SSNP flag, "which features a curved swastika called the red hurricane (zawba'a), pointing to the party's fascistic origins" as stated by Histopher Critchens earlier on this page. However, there are numerous other scholarly references which say pretty much the same thing, at least seven or eight of whicha are already mentioned on this talk page. If necessary, I could procure some more, if you wish for me to do so. But, you were right to add another paragraph to the article explaining the other point of view, which is, by far, the best and most logical thing to do in this situation. Thank you, and happy editing! Laurinavicius (talk) 02:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That quote is taken out of context, and the matter is more complicated than it looks like, see  and there are still lots of details to work out into the article.... --Enric Naval (talk) 03:32, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is utter nonsense.  The SSNP's anthem is NOT sung to the tune of "Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles."  This is an accusation made by Daniel Pipes originally and then copied by other pseudo-intellectuals.  You can listen to both anthems and plainly realize that they have no relation, but instead you prefer to lazily quote a vulgar propagandist that is on the same level of Alan Derschowitz, who recently claimed that the Palestinian people played a significant role in the Jewish holocaust.  These are laughable accusations with no verification.  Also, Beshara and Kader's books do not in anyway substantiate the "Fascist" claims and I don't know wher you got that. 76.241.115.97 (talk) 23:28, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with everything you've said and I will back you up.   (talk) 04:18, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caluminous accusations of fascism 

message: I’ve started to put in order the Bibliography of and on Antun Saada: Books of Saasd were mixed with books and articles on Saada and informations are incompletes and sometime erroneous --Idris.albadufi (talk) 10:23, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: I am an ex SSNP member who deeply studied Antoun Saadeh works. I would like to comment here that Wikipedia has incorrectly presented the brief summary about Antoun Saadeh. The summary is repeating political accusations based on the views of those who put him to trial and execution in less than 48 Hours instead of Quoting from his book "the 10 lectures" that present exactly the purpose of him as a Philosopher creating a political movement. 
Who is Antoun Saadeh:
Traveled to Brazil with help and support from a family friend. 16 Years /Old, he was publishing, writing, editing and selling his news paper in Sao Paolo/Brazil. Spoke Arabic ,Portuguese, Spanish , English ,Italian and German.His political and Patriotic background as he says goes to the South American patriotic movements, also he published a resignation letter from the MASON organization, which in my openion,if made any background, it would not be a Nazi.
The story of Jesus Christ, Ultimate sacrifice has made a landmark in his thinking trying to find a central idea that may connect the dots of religion, history, ideology and philosophy  in the Syrian society that he was trying to influence in a wakeup mission. This story for him reflected a Canaanite belief of “sacrifice is the road for freedom”  He succeeded in replicating the story in his own death that all his followers now celebrate on the 7th of July , first he refused to have his eyes covered before execution, they told him, but this is the law, he answered” I accept the law” the priest who accompanied him told “ Saadeh said I die but my party will continue to be an everlasting movement” and also said Thank you three times before the bullets  blow his heart and neck.he acted as a philosopher rather than a politician.
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The priest who was asked to pray for him before execution told the story, that himself entered to the jail cell around 3 AM and he was amazed to find him actually in deep sleep, while Saadeh new the execution time was July 7th,6 Am. Good Morning Sir! Saadeh, woke up, Good morning father. I am here to pray for you. Saadeh, Thank you so much, and he took a pray position. again Sadeh thanked the priest with a calm and confident smile, refusing any help to get into the car that was supposed to transfer him to the White sand square. every officer on the way received from him a good morning salute.Syrian10 (talk) 03:03, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Saadeh was not very closely or directly influenced by Hitler personally, but I'm afraid that there's not much room for doubt that he and the party were influenced in a general way by various fascist and irredentist currents of thought common in Europe during the 1920s and 1930s.  In fact, the word زعيم za`īm was a pretty direct translation of the fascist titles duce (Italian) / conducător (Romanian) / führer / caudillo (Spanish) etc. AnonMoos (talk) 16:10, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The United States title "commander-in-chief" goes back to the constitution of 1789, and so could not have been influenced by Mussolini.  It also is actually used in order to emphasize military subordination to civilian government (and not any great and glorious powers of the presidency).  And it's odd that Saadeh "abolished" the title of za`īm by reserving its use exclusively for himself... AnonMoos (talk) 14:59, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

text: It would be over-simplistic to say that Saadeh was only a fascist, or did not have other significant influences, but it would also be over-simplistic to deny that fascism was one of the significant influences on him... AnonMoos (talk) 19:00, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction 

message: It is a fact now that his fast 48/h trial was a conspiracy. What is becoming "main story" now that the conspiracy involved Syrian and Lebanese authorities, King of Egypt who visited Lebanon before the trial, and finally the King Farouk involvement, who had no conflict ground with Saadeh brought about serious studies about English intelligence planning all this Syrian10 (talk) 04:52, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who Killed Saadeh 

message: THE MAP of Greater Syria or Fertile crescent
The map as presented in the article here is all wrong.
1-The northern border also incorrect not including the sources of Dijleh and Euphrates.
2-The Eastern border also incorrectly does not include the Arabic side of IRAN “ARABISTAN” which Iran acquired through a conspiracy inviting the governer of that State MR KHAZAAL to visit Iran and when he arrived there , they declared control on the ARABISTAN area as part of the Persian nation.Syrian10 (talk) 05:13, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The MAP / Correction  

message: NAZI salute was practised as straight right arm extend forward.Saadeh was accused to be using the same saluting method as a proof of NAZI background. Let see if there is difference between Saadeh taking Auth and President OBAMA taking Auth rising right arm in right angle. 
1-Saadeh formal Salute. https://www.google.com/search?q=%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%B7%D9%88%D9%86+%D8%B3%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%AF%D8%A9++%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1&biw=829&bih=485&tbm=isch&imgil=VCN790F0ATNukM%253A%253BnVBU5l53nbQLdM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ssnp.info%25252Findex.php%25253Farticle%2525253D75090&source=iu&pf=m&fir=VCN790F0ATNukM%253A%252CnVBU5l53nbQLdM%252C_&usg=__FBNEITzv-xD0743Mur_LHsn5F50%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjX6eP61snMAhUGeCYKHZxeCfkQyjcIJw&ei=pcUuV5eDIIbwmQGcvaXIDw#imgrc=rmz-jFYstQmyxM%3A
2-American formal salute /OBAMA Retake Auth: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Inauguration/story?id=6705930&page=1
Another example to show you how similar the Saadeh style to the American one.Syrian10 (talk) 06:08, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saadeh Auth Salute/ US like style 

message: While some herein  misrepresented  Saadeh approach in using the Leadership title and While I explained previously how Saadeh changed the titlle ZAAMA, from personal use, to be a national institutional right and final authority regulation  in determining the National character as to be SYRIAN. I bring here a formal request he presented to the Syrian authorities in 1937 to regulate the formal addressing titles used by Syrians to be the word "Mister" regardless of the rank or job or background.
-1937/ Saadeh/Complete work/section 3/P218: "We request from our Syrian government, all across the land,to put  final end to personal backward titles, to make MISTER the only title to replace all the bad turkish leftover titles, because our people will not be able to take this step without a government initiative."
-Is this something exactly similar to the US title formalities.Syrian10 (talk) 06:52, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addressing personal  titles / formal request /US Style 

message: When I was in the SSNPs many said If Saadeh’s  Philosophy was right, and his books were already out there, why should he choose death, over dissolving his party as he did not owe this to any one.
Like many I agreed to this until Early 1990s, SSNP was prohibited in Syria. Authorities claimed wanting a true free elections of the Parliament  ”The  house” I had a chance to observe results for Mr “M.NAKAD” an SSNP who ran independent.My observation was in a small town of about 1000 votes. That town ,had some 30  Baath representative and no more that 5 SSNPs . The town  voted  in favor of Mr Nakad all but three votes, you can imagin what 27 Baathist did. Only then I knew why he refused his trial bargain. Saadeh continued in very small part in the SSNP and in most out in the mind of many Syrians.Syrian10 (talk) 04:53, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trial Bargain- Refused to dissolve SSNP in exchange of reversing execution 

message: When Saadeh ‘s was asked why not expand his movement to include rest of the Arabic world, especially when he says “we are the defending sword  of the Arabic world”. His answer was? Because this will alienate  non Arab minorities or communities like Kurds, Turks, ,non Arab Syrians, etc,  If you base your patriotism on the Natural land, then this will apply similarly and correctly to all and in all times. As for the rest of the Arab world , we laid the ground of having four natural maps and all they have to do is decide the way they want to shape their political life and accept sharing the Arab union with us “ Syria qualify as per history to lead and shape the Arabic trend”.Syrian10 (talk) 15:16, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philosophy of Minorities rights and integration. 

message: Not to expand the discussion into his book Islam in two missions, proving his belief, I think enough referring to the Orthodox priest who attended his last night, and described him to be a true believer not fearing death. However in the same time "preventing Clergy of interfering with politics" Makes very good proof that his political background or at list similarity goes to Thomas Jefferson ( Orthodox believer and anti clergy when it comes to politics).Syrian10 (talk) 03:24, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion - Christian Orthodox believer and Anti Clerical 

message: Main stream social trends in the twentieth century , with no brainer, were divided into this:
1-Communism.
2-Fascist socialism : ( like NAZI Germany, where government decide what is good and what is bad)
3-main street socialism : Governments providing  basic support to the poor like treatment, food  and housing compensations.
Where Saadeh fits in all  this. 
1-Saadeh criticized communism very briefly considering that distributing poverty equally will not help much.
2-Views of economy was based on the central concept of “PRODUCTION” and to promote that he argued  the following( production needs Capital and social infrastructure and stability)socialism in Saadeh ‘s language will provide this part of production , “Social infrastructure” by Insuring those who do not make it for their basic human needs like food, treatment and housing .
While United States provide food stamp program, other western nations went heavy on this like France ,England and Canada. Regardless of Saadeh seeming closer to the last three example, he still fits exactly in the same category ,abbreviating his view in one sentence” Rule of PRODUCTION based on free, protected capitalism, with socialist view of insuring those who do not make for their basic human needs to promote the continuity of national economy).
The issue now is that after Communism collapsed, socialism became the new political “scare word” in the main street referring to the fascist example of it and some started actually attacking this food stamp programs in the United states. This why “socialist “ is not referring well to what it actually means anymore.Syrian10 (talk) 04:18, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Socialist part , no difference than, US, Canada , France or England. 

message: This is the second most famous slogan of Saadeh philosophy after “ Life is no more than a stand of dignity”., and  based on it he based many political and social analysis.Syrian10 (talk) 04:26, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous saying "Ethics makes up the core of every great social project" 

message: Three days before his execution, Saadeh dispatched his Syrian fellows in Damascus who were going to join the Lebanese SSNP uprising against the Lebanese government who was arresting SSNPs on political background:
Saadeh speech, as per one of the fellows Mr IAD Musilli, who was present that day:" You are the smallest army in the world, wanting to change the history path of this nation, for sure you will clash with police forces, your response shall never be like fighting an enemy as police personnel are your brothers, sons and fellow citizens. Never use arms or violence against them unless under extreme circumstances. You will pass through towns where you shall never take or accept anything unless you are completely out of reserve".Syrian10 (talk) 05:32, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jesus Christ spirit -Saadeh Speech to SSNP uprising against the Lebanese Government July 5th 1949 

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thread_title: File:SadheeSYRIA.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: The Early life of Saadeh as presented here, in the introduction, presents this "His concept of a Syria included all religious, ethnic and linguistic groups living in this region except for the Jews" that incorrectly means  Saadeh objecting on Jews joining the Syrian society as people, and brings to the table a political propaganda of inhumane approach of anti Semitic accusations. To read Saadeh correctly, we need to say this , all social components, that naturally evolved in the land ,all together , make the overall character of the Syrian society, not to include groups that discriminated itself on a racial basis as superior, or for their believes not able to be integral part of the Syrian society like the Jewish view of being promised the land between Nile and Euphrates by God, as well as Arabs, in the Arabic peninsula, who are known  in history for their racial trends and for their effects of barberic tribal attacks on the southern borders, like Jews, they believe they are best nation brought to planet by God. Arabs and Jews, in Saadehe's view cannot be integral part of the Syrian society,by their own choice and culture,  for what they have of religious and racial beliefs extend  further to make their political existence and that the Syrian society could not "digest" or integrate  them through history. In his book "The Genesis of Nations" Saadeh notes about Arabs upon their entry to Syria, spreading Islam, Saadeh say " and for the good fortune of Syria,  Arabs spread thin  when they sent their armies east and west". In comparison Saadeh also objected on mass migration to Syria, by either Armenians or Jews , saying although Armenians are good expertise, still their mass immigration negatively press the economy and same thing apply to Zionists pushing Jews to migrate in masses to Palestine.. 
I tried  here to bring  Saadeh’s  objections in the right contest and objectives of refusing,  in his view,  the racial and disintegrable religious and political beliefs of both  Jews and Arabs and the negative impact of mass immigrations by Jews and by Armenians. To be just and fair , That is very important point to clarify a harmonious Philosophy presented by Saadeh, as he is actually against racial factors while the introduction is presenting  him as racially driven to reject Jews as people.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syrian10 (talk • contribs) 04:51, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you'll need to find a source for your claim and edit the page your self. --Wustenfuchs 15:24, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early life - Corrections 

message: There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages. 
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion. 
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:44, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion|Request for Comments]] 

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