Talk:Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse

message: We only read in the news about the IS and its non-understandable cruelty.
Should we try to understand how people become terrorists a bit better?
Here is what the US-Government revealed much too long:
https://theintercept.com/2016/08/25/u-s-military-now-says-isis-leader-was-held-in-notorious-abu-ghraib-prison/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.244.70.67 (talk) 08:40, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Islamic State founded in Abu Ghuraib?

message: I deleted the section on Botero that was right after 60 Minutes II and Seymore Hersh and listed him at the bottom of the article under "Depections in Media". He is not relavant to, nor notable enough to warrant inclusion in that section of the article, which deals with how the scandal broke in the media.  The images seared into people's minds forever come not from an artist, but instead from sadistic prison guards with a cheap digital camera.
:This is a mistake to delete. Botero is an important artist of our times, and this series of paintings is a powerful statement, similar to the painting of Guernica. How people react to an event, including artistic reactions, is part of the story. So please, put this section back in. Dale Gerdemann 13:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is not the football player Joaquín Botero, the top google search, but rather Fernando Botero a Columbian/French artist who rose to prominance by painting art about the Abu Graib torture. Unlike Pablo who had already significantly participated and added to the late modernist project decades before producing the Spanish Republican government-funded propaganda Gurenica, which was all the more supported by the subsequent war against fascism, it appears that Botero (the artist) had his fifteen minutes of fame solely for capturing the zeitgeist of certain wealthy chattering classes.  His other work seems to be glorifying rich drug lords.  Hardly an important artist, but certainly an active one, and eventually he may produce something of note.72.203.157.85 (talk) 04:26, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Botero was internationally renowned more than a decade before Abu Ghraib, regardless of your opinion of his art. His sculpture was featured in New York City in Central Park, among many other prominent places. His work on Abu Ghraib is part of the international reaction.Parkwells (talk) 22:10, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Botero

message: This section is unsouced and appears to be quite questionable:
The United States has ratified the UN's Convention Against Torture and the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions. However, the Third and Fourth Geneva conventions both state in Article 2: "The High Contracting Parties shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof". Since Iraq did not apply the protections of the Geneva Conventions to American POW's throughout Gulf War I (e.g. abuse of 17 American POW's at the now-infamous Abu Ghraib, by the Iraq Intelligence Service) and Gulf War II (e.g. the well-known story of Jessica Lynch's unit), it may be argued that Iraq lost its protections under these particular documents (but not others) long before the USA even took possession of the Abu Ghraib prison. The Bush Administration, however, takes the position that, in the words of Alberto R. Gonzales, counsel to the President: "Both the United States and Iraq are parties to the Geneva Conventions. The United States recognizes that these treaties are binding in the war for the liberation of Iraq." ("The Rule of Law and the Rules of War", New York Times (op-ed piece), May 15, 2004). However, the Administration claims that prisoners taken in Afghanistan did not qualify as prisoners of war under international law.
Surely POWs are afforded the rights in the Geneva Conventions regardless of past violations by the country they are serving?  This seems nonesensical.  Also, what do prisoners from Afghanistan have to do with this case? Pexise (talk) 22:07, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  International law 

message: I figured out how to take care of this myself, so I no longer need to request that someone else do so. Ed Moise (talk) 17:20, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The two "Further reading" sections should be combined into one 

message: I support this merger. The Joe Ryan article is too small be stand one it's own. --KMFDM FAN (talk) 23:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd support this merger in the short term since the Joe Ryan article is next to useless on its own and the only information on it is relating to the Abu Ghraib. However, considering how this article has already grown to a large size, maybe we should consider creating a "People involved with Abu Ghraib" article or something to that exntent, and only keeping the most notable people summaries here. --MiloKral (talk) 15:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joe Ryan Merger 

message: I've added substantial amounts to this Joe Ryan article from the complete (?) diary, which can be found here. Please take a look. I believe it merits a stand-alone article. BYT (talk) 22:26, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: More on [[Talk: Joe Ryan]]

message: I've read the article and I don't see ąny information on how often were torture applied. In other words. how many prisoners are estimated to suffer no beatings, sexual assaults, deterring or extreme humiliation??????  78.131.137.50 (talk) 23:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: How often were tortures applied?=

message: I note that you quoted the Lucifer Effect by Phil Zimbardo. Do you think that a section referring to his theories on situation evil would go beyond the encycopedic mandate? Propbably would. Masterly article. ADAM  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.228.172.109 (talk) 01:28, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zimbardo theories 

message: Apologies for asking what may seem a picky question, but I'm coming to this article for the first time and am genuinely unclear about a small point. What's meant by "where" in the following sentence from the lead section?
"As revealed by the 2004 Taguba Report, a criminal investigation by the United States Army Criminal Investigation Command had already been underway since 2003 where many soldiers of the 320th Military Police Battalion had been charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice with prisoner abuse."
What is the antecedent of "where"? I don't see a place named. Would I be understanding the sentence correctly if I read it as "a criminal investigation … had already been underway since 2003, in the course of which many soldiers … had been charged … ?" With which referring back to the investigation? Cynwolfe (talk) 16:18, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  clarification? 

message: The pictures should be removed from this page; they are inflammatory and highly offensive to muslims.  The descriptions of these acts are more than adequate to convey what went on at Abu Ghraib.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.91.60.183 (talk) 15:26, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is difficult to truly convey, in words alone, what happened. Even the photos are not able to truly convey the shocking treatment of these prisoners. Imagine the screams, the pain, the smells, the blood.... The photographs are also evidence that makes denial more difficult. Ghostofnemo (talk) 02:05, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

text: First off, screw you for comparing this tiny little prison to concentration camps in germany.  Secondly, the idea that "most of these inmates" were innocent comes from a single source, which had no way of confirming any of the reported individuals guilt or innocence.  Thirdly, you want to talk about evil, lets talk about underage prostitution of little boys that Islam permits, known as "Bacha bazi", or the fact that these "people" strap bomb vests to children and throw them out of moving vehicles into crowded markets.  Sure, what happened in Abu Ghraib is unfortunate, but don't dare imply that it was somehow comparable to the concentration camps which targeted innocents, unprovoked.  You're literally justifying these numerous graphic images for the sole purpose of virtue signalling about how righteous you are.  Maybe someday you'll experience muslim extremism first hand.2601:49:1:5316:1D78:3A1:F574:8769 (talk) 19:04, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove the Pictures 

message: I support the posting of pictures of the correctional facilities that the perpetrators attended. The prisons were direct consequences of their behavior, and prisons became a big part of their lives (not everybody has standalone articles!) WhisperToMe (talk) 02:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Prison pictures

message: Any chance of adjusting the page title so that it reflects the fact that this isn't about the sum total of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib, merely the small proportion of it perpetrated by Americans?
Neither this page, nor the page on the prison itself seems to acknowledge the reality of the place's past (and probable future) as a torture facility and seems almost anti-American by (inadvertant) omission.
213.121.242.7 (talk) 14:53, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page Title 

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thread_title: File:Abu Ghraib 39.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: The statement "Captain Carolyn Wood was head of the 519th Military Intelligence Battalion from Fort Bragg" is incorrect. CPT Wood may have been a company commander, but a lieutenant colonel is normally the commander of a battalion, and CPT Wood was not nor has she ever been the commander of a battalion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vietnam volunteer (talk • contribs) 03:42, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain Carolyn Wood 

message: I have found virtually no citations that the person in the photo has the name "Satar Jabar." A 2004 Newsweek article is the first place I've seen it used:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2004/07/18/beneath-the-hoods.html
:Prisoner Satar Jabar's photograph, showing him hooded and wired up, has become familiar to Iraqis, who derisively call it "the Statue of Liberty." Far from being a dangerous insurgent, however, Jabar, 24, was an accused car thief.
Two Toronto Star articles do:
*Sticking it to Bush at Whitney exhibit; Politics almost trumps the work: Goddard, Peter. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 04 Mar 2006: 2.
*So now what do we do with prisoners?; Since 9/11, questions about torture and who's doing it have been deftly sidestepped and hotly debated. Recent events have dragged Canada deeper into the fray: Shephard, Michelle. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 27 Jan 2008: 8. 
Both articles are behind a pay wall, I found them with a ProQuest newspaper database search. The first just says the person is Satar Jabar. The second uses the photo that was published in The New Yorker with this caption:
:THE NEW YORKER Undated photo shows Satar Jabar standing atop a box at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
The problem is that The New Yorker doesn't have this as the current caption: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/05/03/slideshow_040503#slide=1. The current caption reads: "A hooded and wired Iraqi prisoner at Abu Ghraib prison who reportedly was told that he would be electrocuted if he fell off a box."
I am therefore deleting the name from the caption and will propose for deletion the article named "Satar Jabar" which redirects to this page.
One side note, a man claimed he was the person in the photo, but the editor's note retracts the claim. It mentions that:
:The Times and other newspapers would have shown that in 2004 military investigators named another man as the one on the box, raising suspicions about Mr. Qaissi's claim. 
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/11/international/middleeast/11ghraib.html?pagewanted=all
But the name "Satar Jabar" appears in The Times twice, but not in regard to the photograph.
Mnnlaxer (talk) 19:07, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Satar Jabar not the hooded prisoner on box

message: It's well known, and established in Rumsfeld's book Known and Unknown: A Memoir, that Rumsfeld had wanted to resign after the abuse became publicly known. However, Bush said 'no' and ordered him to stay. He stayed, but he regretted that decision. I don't think these facts are clear in this article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.47.150.42 (talk) 22:01, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: just because that is the way it is representat in his memoir - does not mean it is fact - it only means that that is his version of events... memoirs and auto-biographies often tent to trivialize/play down things 91.89.243.218 (talk) 11:58, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumsfeld 

message: Hi. I'd like to suggest the deletion of the photo depicting the soldier pointing to an inmate's penis, or at least the blurring of his and the other inmates' genitals (as has happened in other photos).  My starting point is that, as a Christian, I think that people (publishers included) should treat others as they would want to be treated themselves.
The photo is clearly humiliating and degrading to a victim of crime who may be still alive, and while his face is obscured, he will know that he was abused in this way. Showing the photo is likely to be distressful to him and could cause mental or emotional harm; we cannot second guess that. Wikipedia can easily by viewed by children, for whom this explicit photo is clearly inappropriate.
I know that, judged on copyright and free speech grounds, there is no legal restriction on displaying the photo. However, I think that there are more important moral factors (explained above) about how people should be treated when they are distressed, as he was at this moment, and how we respect victims of crime, especialy sexual offences. Looking forward to your suggestions and thanks for your time. Gecko177 (talk) 10:33, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose per WP:NOTCENSORED. I do not believe that the photo is humiliating and degrading to the victim. The torture and unspeakable treatment that this man endured was. 119.247.227.236 (talk) 03:27, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo deletion 

message: VolunteerMarek seems to believe that this article should not be in the  category. I am providing the following sources to dispute his (ridiculous) point of view:
*"The Taguba report also contains a finding that groups of male detainees were forced to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped...The forced masturbation of the victim and the perpetrator is considered to be one of the most common forms of sexual violence experienced by men"  Sexual violence against men in armed conflict, S Sivakumaran - European Journal of International Law, 2007
*"The most widely circulated images of gender-based violence from US-occupied Iraq are the notorious Abu Ghraib photos. Released to the public in April 2004, the photos document the sexualized torture of Iraqi men by US soldiers. They include images of prisoners forced to stand naked, masturbate, simulate gay sex, and wear women’s clothing. In essence, the torture consisted of an attack on the gender identity of the prisoners. The forcefulness of that attack derived from the misogyny of both the detainees and their torturers. As Dhia al-Shweiri, an Iraqi who was tortured in Abu Ghraib said, “They were trying to humiliate us, break our pride. We are men. It’s OK if they beat me. Beatings don’t hurt us, it’s just a blow. But no one would want their manhood to be shattered. They wanted us to feel as though we were women, the way women feel, and this is the worst insult, to feel like a woman.” Promising Democracy, Imposing Theocracy Gender-Based Violence and the US War on Iraq (Part 2) - See more at: http://www.stateofnature.org/?p=6231#sthash.S2tK2IOx.dpuf, By Yifat Susskind
*"In this chapter, I will conduct an intersectional analysis of two cases of sexual violence against men that will be taken as examples of the extremes of media exposures and invisibilities…The second example is the high exposure of sexual torture of Iraqi men in the Baghdad prison Abu Ghraib, in American (and international) media - on TV, in the press and on the Internet." Framing Intersectionality: Debates on a Multi-Faceted Concept in Gender Studies, edited by Professor Helma Lutz, Ms Maria Teresa Herrera Vivar, Ms Linda Supik
*"In the meantime, sexual violence against males continues to flourish in prison and other forms of detention. Men have been abused and sexually humiliated during situations of armed conflict, such as the highly publicized Abu Ghraib scandal in Iraq." Hastings L.J. 605 (2008-2009), Male Rape and Human Rights, by Stemple, Lara 
*“Further, sexual violence against men is best understood as part of a continuum of violence against men in society, from bullying of boys, to the rape of men in prison, and the sexual humiliation of Muslim Arab men in Abu Ghraib.”, Sexual Violence Against Men and Women in War: A Masculinities Approach, Valorie K. Vojdik, University of Tennessee College of Law, July 2013, Nevada Law Journal, Forthcoming , University of Tennessee Legal Studies Research Paper No. 217
::Now, I'm waiting to hear from him, or anyone else, on why you think that the Abu Ghraib case, which is HIGHLIGHTED by many studies of sexual violence against men in wartime as a massively studied case, does not belong in the Violence against men category. This clearly passes WP:DEFINING by a mile.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 04:07, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, me and all of those sources that discuss sexual violence against men, and use Abu Ghraib as a primary example of same. We're all agenda pushers, you caught us!! Marek, you seem to suffer from the same problem another editor had, which is, an event, where bad things happen to men, and bad things happen to women. How can we call that Violence against men! That's not fair!! Let's take two examples of violence: #1 Atomic bomb on hiroshima, #2 Abu Ghraib. Now, for #1, men and women and children died, and while we could call it Violence against men and Violence against women and Violence against children, it doesn't make sense since the bomb itself was indiscriminate, and the target was neither men nor women nor children but rather CIVILIANS. Now, we have case #2, Abu Ghraib - we have OODLES of sources (I just gave 4 above, but a google scholar search on "violence against men" +"Abu Ghraib" will find dozens of hits or more) that use Abu Ghraib as a case example of both prisoner abuse and sexual abuse of men. Were women sexually abused as well? Absolutely. Were both genders targeted? Yes, but in very different ways, and of course the number of male detainees was greater. Does the "Violence against men" category somehow mean that women didn't suffer at all? Absolutely not!! At Srebrenica, one of the most famous examples of Gendercide in the late 20th century, 8000 men were killed, but also hundreds or maybe thousands of women were raped or otherwise abused, and some were even killed. So, we add this to the  category as well. A single event can comprise gender-based violence against BOTH men and women. Repeat that, please. A single event can comprise GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE AGAINST BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. Again, adding something to the "Violence against men" category does not mean that there was no violence against women, and if sources can be provided that discuss Abu Ghraib as an example of sexual violence in war against female detainees it should be added at least to the  category and possibly . Marek, I hope this is the moment when you wake up and realize that YOU are the one pushing a POV. I hope you read those sources above carefully, and reflect - why would all of those reliable sources use Abu Ghraib as a primary EXAMPLE of sexual violence against men, and why does that bug me so much? Isn't that, after all, a good case for inclusion in the category? You seem a bit blinded by your frustration with me.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 04:48, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

text: In this case, it seems that some reliable sources have described this event as violence against men. It may additional also be violence against women. It seems that gender was a focus of the attacks described based on interpretations in the provided sources.  Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:51, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources for sexual violence against men 

message: , you were correct in your assessment the first time; however, the source does mention children being raped in front of watching women. Therefore, I modified the text to reflect that, I did not simply revert your edit. If you have further disagreements, I'd be happy to take them up here. Vanamonde93 (talk) 02:12, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The rape of children may have originated with reporter Seymour Hersh, who has since walked that statement back along with quite a few other claims he's said to audiences (as opposed to what he says in print)-- detailed here at "Hersh apocrypha" and again here as to Iranian nuclear weapons.  The credibility of this once great reporter sadly, is now in serious doubt. I think the Guardian also published stories about the rape of children in 2004, so that publication should be the more source cited for this allegation, rather than Hersh.ElijahBosley (talk ☞)  19:48, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raping children 

message: I don't care if you show nudity or you censor them, but make up your mind. Some are censored some are not. Inconsistency is not a strength.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.71.229.46 (talk) 01:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't believe Wikipedia is censoring any images; some of them come to us censored. Could you be a little more specific? Vanamonde93 (talk) 01:46, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I don't think some of these photos should be displayed on this page, such as the man covered in human excrement. This page is accessible to all ages and could be distressing to some. They should at least be hidden in a drop down menu that warns viewers of their content.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Regn752 (talk • contribs) 13:53, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Regn752, please read WP:NOTCENSORED. Regards, Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:10, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that a warning and opt-out option would be valuable. What would be lost by allowing readers to decide for themselves whether to view the photos? That would not be censorship. 2601:646:C100:1340:F0B7:86E0:C0C:B560 (talk) 11:51, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures acceptable for general audience? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The caption of the first picture (man on box wired with electric wire) says "Ali Shallal al-Qaisi", but the picture's description in the summary section of the "File:" page says "Satar Jabar". Additionally, the caption of the same picture on Torture article also says "Satar Jabar". I don't know how to ascertain which one is true...
Lionel Elie Mamane (talk) 16:47, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is the victim on the first picture? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified  on Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080212035108/http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_5/index.html to http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_5/index.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080212035108/http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_5/index.html to http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_5/index.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929134347/http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=791 to http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=791
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091016005519/http://www.derechos.org/nizkor/us/doc/icrc-prisoner-report-feb-2004.pdf to http://www.derechos.org/nizkor/us/doc/icrc-prisoner-report-feb-2004.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071114040412/http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/30/1333214 to http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/30/1333214
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071114081906/http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/09/1444246 to http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/09/1444246
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150516075342/http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/german-war-crimes-complaint-against-donald-rumsfeld%2C-et-al. to http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/german-war-crimes-complaint-against-donald-rumsfeld%2C-et-al.
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150516075342/http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/german-war-crimes-complaint-against-donald-rumsfeld%2C-et-al. to http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/german-war-crimes-complaint-against-donald-rumsfeld%2C-et-al.
*Added  tag to http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=7926
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.news.com.au/story/0%2C10117%2C18166472-26619%2C00.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/introduction/index.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://italy.usembassy.gov/viewer/article.asp?article=%2Ffile2004_05%2Falia%2Fa4050713.htm
*Added  tag to http://www.moveonpac.org/goreremarks052604.html
*Added  tag to http://articles.cnn.com/2005-01-17/justice/graner.parents_1_irma-graner-guy-womack-charles-graner
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130201094136/http://www.defense.gov/news/Aug2004/d20040824finalreport.pdf to http://www.defense.gov/news/Aug2004/d20040824finalreport.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05%2F06%2F30%2F1333214
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06%2F11%2F09%2F1444246
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I realise that the images shown in this article have a lot of value in communicating the sort of horrors that prisoners have been put through.  I doubt, however, that the prisoners who are depicted have been asked for their permission to be shown in this article.  The photos are of people, who belong in communities and families.  Should they ever see this page, or should a family member recognise them in one of the published photographs here, I have little doubt that they will be re-traumatised.
In other words, I suggest that the photos should not be published without the consent of the victims.  To publish them otherwise is to commit another crime upon their person, and to bring back to their memory events that nobody should ever be put through.
While the pictures tell a powerful story, and undoubtedly add enormously to the words they sit beside, surely the mental and physical health of the victims must come first.  Please, can this be considered and acted upon?  Thank you. Ambiguosity (talk) 10:52, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Permission for use of images? 

message: The article describes the following as an image of the prisoner Ali Shallal al-Qaisi, but the description on the image's own page identifies the prisoner as Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh. Unless the prisoner has two names, this is a contradiction that needs to be rectified.
 
204.191.243.35 (talk) 16:08, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The image may be depicting Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:54, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: WHAT ABOUT REPERCUSSIONS AGAINST THE SOLDIER who reported the abuses up the chain of command and was outed by Rumsfeld? ( Martin |  talk • contribs  02:08, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  WHAT ABOUT REPERCUSSIONS AGAINST THE SOLDIER 

message: I made significant changes to this article recently. There were major issues with the article, including:
* An overly lengthy lede;
* Inclusion of material in the lede that was not significant enough to be there;
* A "War on Terror" section that contained dubious content, raised WP:NPOV concerns, and relied on only one source;
* Failure to include key content and background;
* Unsourced material;
* Questionably sourced material; 
* Excessive detail; and
* Poor writing.
I made over 30 edits in an effort to correct many of these issues. Vanamonde93 reverted all of my edits in their entirety, saying, "Please discuss your changes first; some of your additions are fine, but I'm concerned that you're removing a lot of good material, and you haven't explained those removals nearly enough." The problem with this wholesale revert is that it was overinclusive; it undid many edits in which I did not remove any material (to say nothing of the edits where I added material). Of more than 30 edits I made, I see only five where I removed sourced material. With the exception of those five (which I will discuss further below), I have reinstated my edits. SunCrow (talk) 04:20, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major issues 

message: Per the previous entry above, I made five bold edits in which I removed sourced material. I have reinstated that material and now raise it for discussion here.
***
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse&diff=916292382&oldid=916292151
:According to the authors, the September 11 attacks led to demands from the public that U.S. president George W. Bush take actions that would prevent further attacks. This pressure led to the launch of the War on Terror. 
This is a modified version of the following text: 
:The September 11 attacks in the United States led to demands from the public that U.S. president George W. Bush take actions that would prevent further attacks. This pressure led to the launch of the War on Terror. 
The material is dubiously sourced and highly debatable.
***
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse&diff=next&oldid=916292382
: (Brig. Gen. Janis) Karpinski told a reporter in 2014 that military intelligence personnel had told her that 90 percent of the inmates were innocent of the crimes of which they had been accused and had been detained simply by virtue of having been in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This material is tangentially relevant and impossible to verify for anyone who does not read German.
***
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse&diff=next&oldid=916292469
:Documents popularly known as the Torture Memos came to light a few years later. These documents, prepared shortly before the 2003 invasion of Iraq by the United States Department of Justice, authorized certain enhanced interrogation techniques, generally held to involve torture of foreign detainees. The memoranda also argued that international humanitarian laws, such as the Geneva Conventions, did not apply to American interrogators overseas. Several subsequent U.S. Supreme Court decisions, including Hamdan v. Rumsfeld (2006), have overturned Bush administration policy, and ruled that Geneva Conventions apply.
I moved this material out of the lede. It is not sourced in the lede, but appears to have a basis in the body of the article. I would argue that it doesn't relate specifically enough to Abu Ghraib to be in the lede. Inclusion in the body of the article is enough. 
***
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse&diff=next&oldid=916292545
:During this insurgency, the United States was in the role of an occupying power.
Raises POV concerns, dubious, and comes from a tertiary source. 
***
5. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse&diff=next&oldid=916292608
:The abuse was also perpetrated by three female military officers shown in the images on this page, where they received a wide range of attention and were later convicted with several other members.
Seems odd to single out the sex of these three perpetrators.
Thoughts? SunCrow (talk) 04:36, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Five bold edits 

message: Numerous news articles reported that Israelis were employed as the actual interrogators because  they  spoke Arabic.  This should be included in Wikipedia. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3863235.stm 47.202.49.36 (talk) 13:11, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Israelis were the Interrogators

message: — Assignment last updated by Mnbvcxz1234567 (talk) 02:37, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: States and their Secrets

message: Can we add some information on who the prisoners where and what they were in there for because there are a large part of the topic and information about them is not mentioned enough Conrad Morrell-Nichols (talk) 21:51, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prisoner information 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:52, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: As stated in the references the photographed prisoner is NOT Ali-Shallal al-Qaisi. 
[first https://worldcrunch.com/this-happened/hooded-man-photo]:
"He was originally thought to be Ali-Shallal al-Qaisi, who was imprisoned at Abu Ghraib after US military seized his football pitch in Iraq for the purpose of dumping corpses and waste. He was arrested after attempting to contact foreign reporters about the incident.
"The prisoner who'd been nicknamed Gilligan was later correctly identified as Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh."
[second https://web.archive.org/web/20110514000853/http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A43783-2004May20?language=printer]:
"Another publicized photograph -- that of a hooded detainee hooked up to wires and standing on a box -- is also described in the statements.
"'On the third day, after five o'clock, Mr. Graner came and took me to room Number 37, which is the shower room, and he started punishing me,' said Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh, detainee No. 18170. 'Then he brought a box of food and he made me stand on it with no clothing, except a blanket. Then a tall black soldier came and put electrical wires on my fingers and toes and on my penis, and I had a bag over my head.'"
-Kez (talk) 10:36, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Identification of prisoner in photo

message: The redirect Ashraf Abdullah Ahsy has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  1234qwer1234qwer4 00:06, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Ashraf Abdullah Ahsy]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: The redirect Haj Ali (mayor) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  1234qwer1234qwer4 00:07, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Haj Ali (mayor)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: I removed the following:
On May 7, 2004, Nick Berg, an American businessman who went to Iraq after the U.S. invasion, was captured and decapitated on video by the Islamist militant organization al-Ansars in response to Abu Ghraib.
The source in no way claims that the torture caused the beheadings.  On the contrary, it points out that the beheadings could not have caused the torture.
However the video of the beheading (according to our article) did claim that it was in retaliation to the Abu Ghraib torture.  A well referenced mention of this should ideally be in the article.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough 22:04, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Nick Berg ''et al.''