Talk:Pamir languages

message: Hi, Ogneslav. Everyone knows that Bulgarian is today a Slavic language, but that was not always the case. Unlike Russian, Czech and all the other Slavic languages, Bulgarian is not genetically a Slavic language, but is Slavic only by the process of borrowing and adoption.
There are still some words and structures in Modern Bulgarian that remain from the language of the ancient Pamirian Bulgars. The Bulgars were a Central Asian people who lived between the Volga and the Urals and who spoke a Pamirian language (Iranian language family, not Slavic). As the Bulgars migrated toward the present-day Balkans, their language was strongly influenced by other languages along the way, especially Turkish. After reaching the Balkans, the Bulgars eventually adopted the local Slavic language ... but Modern Bulgarian still contains some bits and pieces from the ancestral Pamirian tongue.
In short, the proto-Bulgar language of the Pamirs is NOT unrelated to modern Bulgarian. Today's Bulgarians are the descendents of the ancient Pamirian Bulgars. — Stephen 15:08, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled 

message: I am a Bulgarian but I want to support mr. Koryakov (see above) in his opinion that the Bulgars spoke a Turkic language. However, the problem to recognize this comes from the unwillingness of modern Bulgarian historians to have anything to do with Turkey, this is why they prefer to invent, without evidence, theories about a Pamirian or Iranian origin of the Bulgars, supplanted by a Turkic aristocracy which brought a Turkic language. As far as I know, this is just a hoax, since linguistic evidence from Hungarian, Chuvash and Volga Tatar languages supports the fact that Bulgar was a Turkic language with Iranian borrowings from various Iranian substrata or adstrata. It will take some time and certainly the appointment of a new director of the National Museum of History (current Bozhidar Dimitrov is an outspoken ultra-nationalist and national romanticist) for Bulgarian scientists to stop taking dreams for facts. 
85.11.148.125 08:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgars and the problems of modern Bulgarian historians 

message: To Stephen. Bulgarian IS genetically and linguistically a Slavic language, just as are Russian, Czech, Polish, Serbian/Croatian and Slovene. Between the end of the 7th and the 10th century, the Proto-Bulgar, or just Bulgar, language assimilated into it, without leaving much trace other than the country's name, Bulgaria. Pretty much the same way as the Franks left their name but not their language to France and the Scandinavian Rus left their name, but not the language, to East Slavic Russia. Later, in the last millennium or so, the Slavic Bulgarian language (*note: there is no separate "Macedonian" laguage speaking linguistically, its creation was a result of a political decision by Tito and Yugoslav authorities to de-Bulgarianize the local population in the Vardar Region) changed significantly, as compared to other Slavic languages under the surrounding Balkan influence by Greek, Romanian, Albanian, and (to a lesser extent) Turkish languages. This, however, is a LATER development. It FOLLOWED the assimilation of Proto-Bulgars and their dissolution among the the country's Slav-speaking population. The proof is easy to find, e.g. the Slavonic or Church Slavonic language (originating from the region of Thessaloniki) stands closer grammatically to Czech, or Slovene, or Russian, than to modern Bulgarian. There is also more evidence from neighbouring non-Slavic languages as Greek, Albanian, Romanian and Hungarian. However, pretty much in the same way in which historians in the FY Republic of Macedonia "invent" a new history, wich they wish had happened, Bulgarian historians today try to diminish the idea of Turkic founders of the state and (rather wish to than succed in) gather evidence about an Iranian origin. There are also many who would like to diminish the Slavic character of the language and the Bulgarian ethnos. I would just remind you that in the 30-es and the 40-es there was a fashion supported by pro-Nazi and high-ranking Bulgarian scientists of seeing the (Proto-)Bulgars as a German tribe,in line with the Nazi propaganda of the day. The danger of creating a false "national mythology" could be easily seen if we looked south-west.
85.11.148.125 08:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgarian IS genetically a Slavic language 

message: I am a lay person in this regard, but most theories I heard was that Proto/Bulgarian was either an Iranian or a (Finn)Ugric lanfuage. I read somewhere (dont have the link now, but I try to find it) that proto/Iranian religious was found among an ancient (Finn)Ugric  in urals and the studies of (Finn)Ugric  languages of that area reveald affiliation with the Pamirian branch of the Iranian languages. If true it cannot be due to loanwords and contacts but rather due to migrations from the Pamirs. Ural is too far from there!--Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:15, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  my take on it 

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=JL4IAAAAQAAJ
http://books.google.com/books?id=up2jpwAACAAJ&source=gbs_book_other_versions
Kuoofra (talk) 04:52, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shighni (ghalchah) dialect 

message: http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/afghanistan-v-languages
Rajmaan (talk) 05:55, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future of pamiri languages in afghanistan 

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=qtcmm6N6LPYC&pg=PA234#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=qtcmm6N6LPYC&pg=PA236#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=qtcmm6N6LPYC&pg=PA237#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 08:01, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Status of Pamiri languages in Soviet Tajikistan 

message: Eastern Turki (as Spoken in Turkestan): Grammar, Turki-English Vocabulary, English-Turki Vocabulary, with English Phonetic Pronunciation FrReport of a Mission to Yarkund in 1873, Under Command of Sir T. D. Forsyth ... By Sir Thomas Douglas Forsythnt Cover Harold Whitaker
https://books.google.com/books?id=JxwPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA538&dq=mazlum+kishi&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3tKyzhLDJAhXCOSYKHdZ7AugQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=mazlum%20kishi&f=false
On the Shighni (Ghalchah) Dialect By Robert Shaw
http://books.google.com/books?id=JL4IAAAAQAAJ
http://books.google.com/books?id=up2jpwAACAAJ&source=gbs_book_other_versions
On the Ghalchah languages (Wakhand Sarikol (1876)
https://archive.org/details/onghalchahlangua00shaw
Rajmaan (talk) 23:12, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pamiri language materials 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Pamir languages. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100707053338/http://www.ling.su.se/staff/ljuba/maps/tajikistan.gif to http://www.ling.su.se/staff/ljuba/maps/tajikistan.gif
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 19:06, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified