Talk:Face of Boe

message: It seems to me that the correct spelling would be 'The Face of Beau' given Jack's reference to the nickname at the Time Agency, no? 
No, he is from the Boeshane Peninsula and therefore got the name the "Face of Boe"(shane).
According to IMDB it is spelt Bo-Shang peninsula, but I can't find a BBC link that backs this up. IMDB Face of Bo quote Eating cake (talk) 18:20, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change name 

message: Just watched New Earth and the Face spoke with the Doctor and Rose by telepathy.
He also told the Doctor they would meet again, so it looks like keeping this as a separate article was correct.
HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 19:31, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Telepathic 

message: Well there's speculation that this head is a Time Lord.. but after he "teleported" away suddenly at the end of New Earth, perhaps he didn't teleport at all, but travelled to another time? Maybe he's a living TARDIS (Ala Compassion)? This could help explain some of the confusion about his age too.. Anyway, just a random thought. :P Rehevkor 13:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Living TARDIS? 

message: The paragraph that begins "We are told" is very mysterious. What is the source of the statements made in this section? Also, this paragraph is written in the first person, instead of third. Ravenswood 17:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation, or something 

message: If we put together the facts that:
- The Doctor Who Annual 2006 mentions the phrase "You are not alone" in relation to the timewar.
- RTD says that TFOB will say 4 words.
- Those 4 words relate to the third series finalé.
- And finally the rumours of The Master being in the third series finalé..
Does this warrant a sub-category mentioning the theories about "You are not alone" and what this could mean in relation to the finalé as well as The Master? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gothicfrog (talk • contribs) 23:04, March 11, 2007  (UTC)
:Sorry, I don't think there's any way to do that without veering into original research.  If you can find any of this speculation in a reliable source (such as Doctor Who Magazine or SFX), then we could include it with proper attribution, but otherwise we can't put it in.
:The good news is that we won't have long to wait before we see the Face again, and presumably hear those four words, at which point we won't need to speculate. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 06:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion on "You are not alone" 

message: The line which says "After hearing the message, The Doctor tells Martha that The Face of Boe was wrong, although it has not yet been revealed which of the two is correct" needs editing I think as apparently in the Confidential episode after Gridlock it was said (I think by Russel T but I'm going on second-hand information here) that both were right, and that the secret's not as simple as it sounds. Someone who's seen the Confidential episode may be able to write this in officially, as I'm still downloading it to watch myself. Aetyr 10:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Which is right?

message: At the end of the article, in the see also part there is a “The Face of Boe's "Lonely God" prophecy” link, but the page it leads to doesn't have anything on the subject
83.15.56.98 19:19, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad link 

message: Does anyone else think this article could do with a clean up? It seems that nearly every paragraph has been added after every appearance of the Face of Boe. (e.g. it king of goes; this happened and then this happened and then this happened (if you know what I mean)). Also some of the paragraphs need a little updating. (e.g. in paragraph 8 there is a line that says, “…perhaps implying that The Doctor is not the last surviving Time Lord”. We know he’s not the last surviving Time Lord because of the Master (although he could be now). Also I think that a few headings would help this article greatly. yettie0711 20:36, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean Up?

message: it is obvious that the face is jack, come on its obvious. hears my reason: Jack, realising that only he, Martha and the Doctor know about the master hiding at the universes end and the YANA acronym, used his seeming immortality to give the message about the masters existance to the Doctor 5 billion years into the future, but because he still aged at a slow rate, he had changed massively. using the name: Face of Boe because he told the Doctor about it being his nick name as a child, ensured that the Doctor (the doctor at the end of 'last of the timelords') would realise that the face of boe was actually who Jack would become. this theory also provides an alternative reason to why rose would have given jack immortality (beyond the reason the doctor gave, which as that rose couldnt control his resurection);so that he would live long enough so he could give the doctor the message that would result in the events of the series 3 finale, and also would result in jack learning the information that he would give to the doctor in the future, so that his past self would also learn the information to give to the doctor aswell, thus creating an Ontological paradox, in the sense that he gets his information from his future self through the doctor. this is more likely than rose simply not having enough control to stop jack constantly resurrecting, as she was able to see all of time and would have realised that she, not only created badwolf, but also the face of boe, and would have set into motion the events that created him aswell as those that created badwolf.
plus the fact that the name face of boe is so rare it has to be him, oh and when he says he is the last of his species, he isnt lying because all the humans of the boe penisala are dead, making him the last one.
:1. Sign your posts. 2. Read a little further up the page. 3. Although they may be the same BEING, they are different CHARACTERS (c.f. Superman and Clark Kent). 59.100.13.147 04:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  do merge 

message: Should this be merged into List of Doctor Who monsters? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 04:07, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It should certainly be merged somewhere, but I'm not sure that's the proper place. List of Doctor Who villains doesn't seem right either. Huh.--Sean|Black 04:19, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that monsters are at the more neutral List of Doctor Who aliens, should the Face be merged into that list?  Or does his return in the second series mean that he merits a page of his own?  —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 06:51, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say it's long enough not to be a stub, and will be added to when he shows up again. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 07:17, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think The Face Of Boe might turn out to be very important - we are constantly being reminded of him in Series 1, so he should have his own page. DavidFarmbrough 09:54, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Just found out that the face of boe may be Captain Jack Harkness God0fgod 21:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There should be no merger, the Face of Boe is a major character and has his own sub-plot throughout the first three seasons (maybe more?). 75.89.36.161 22:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, he is important enough to have his own page. Appearing over all three seasons and being referenced many times means he is notable enough Tphi 02:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

text: That would be the age-old question whether utterances even by the creator in secondary sources (such as podcasts and the Confidentials) can be counted as canon. Creators of other shows have said things in interviews and companions and then ended up doing something else in the original source on the long run. So, unless it becomes clearer on the show, more than just one line thrown in, I don't think merging this with the Jack Harkness article would be of merit. It is being mentioned in Jack's article, so I think that is enough. We're not merging all articles of all the Doctors either. It would just get too long. Little-quiqueg 10:20, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge Talk

message: This sentence is no longer true and should be replaced.
I understand the initial reaction not to merge this page with the Jack Harness page, but also believe that, in time, this will need to be reconsidered. Especially in the light of what a combined page would look like, which would be somewhat different to what we have now, which is two pages in chronological order as the Doctor's timeline would see them. It would be far more interesting to put them in the order Jack/Face of Boe came across them.
Incidentally, we also ought to add the in the Face of Boe's third appearance, the phrase "old friend" was deliberately, and retrospectively, added by RTD precisely because the Face (being Jack) would necessarily be friendlier to the Doctor than he would have been to someone he had only met fleetingly twice (or is it thrice?) before. The Tribe of Gum 16:29, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The origins of the Face of Boe are largely unclear. 

message: See the two side-by-side to judge if they could be the same.  To my eyes it seems plausible.--GwydionM 17:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I don't think so somehow. I'm pretty certain the Face of Boe was conceived before the whole Master storyline was thought of. mattbuck 17:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I get what he's saying though, I mean, the whole eyes and nose do have a slight resemblence :p Jasca Ducato 19:37, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need a photo of Jack 

message: It says that Gardner wanted to hear more, but then leaves us hanging!  That sounds like a teaser or something, and not particularly encyclopedia like
:Hm, perhaps that could be clarified a bit.  She didn't want to hear more, she wanted RTD to "stop backpedaling" and commit to the development.  
:Actually, the whole podcast bit is rather inconclusive, and could be removed entirely.  It doesn't really add anything.--Trystan 05:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One of the many reasons why I'm thoroughly displeased with Mr. Davies on a personal level.  Do something and COMMIT to it, dang it! DestradoZero 20:23, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Julie Gardner 

message: Didn't Jack describe himself as mostly human, rather than human? TharkunColl 11:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I'm aware of.  Of which episode are you thinking?  Mark H Wilkinson 16:07, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jack Harkness - human?

message: The so-called "Toclafane" are what humans become - disembodied heads in an artificial container. This is also what the Face of Boe is. And, incidentally, where does the term "Boekind" come from? Was it said onscreen? TharkunColl 15:19, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it's from the DW Aliens and Monsters Companion book, or whatever that thing was called. mattbuck 15:29, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then it is not canonical, and Jack's statement onscreen overrides it. TharkunColl 15:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, because it is a canonical source - was written by RTD iirc. mattbuck 16:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: It's also mentioned in New Earth.--Codenamecuckoo 16:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Quote from Novice Hame: "The rest of Boekind became extinct, long ago. He's the only one left." Mark H Wilkinson 18:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Toclafane

message: The fact that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness is a crucial character detail that must go in the first paragraph, just like the separate articles on each regeneration of the Doctor state who he is up front. And whilst I don't propose a merger (the Doctor, after all, has at least 10 different articles), it is worth pointing out that the Master only has one article, despite having had a number of different regenerations. The Doctor also has an "overview" article of the character as a whole.
For those who would like to think that Jack's words should not be taken at face value I would say that this attitude is mere POV. The words were very clear, and their meaning was obvious. This is the state of affairs right now in the Doctor Who universe, and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous. TharkunColl 18:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A couple of lines at the end of an episode which are open to more than one interpretation do not provide us with the mandate to assert a connection or lack thereof between these characters.  WP:NPOV applies -- we need merely include the verifiable facts of Jack's claimed nickname and observations made in the commentary.  Mark H Wilkinson 18:18, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: It's open to interpretation because all we know is that they share a name.  According to the writer, it's meant to be a theory; it's not uncommon for writers to deliberately leave a bit of ambiguity to tease the audience..--Trystan 23:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't understand this. The dialogue at the end of the last episode was plain. Why try to explain it away? TharkunColl 23:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't try to explain it in any direction.  That's the point.  We present the facts in a neutral fashion and allow the readers to make up their own minds.  Some will think Jack and FoB are the same being, some will think they're not, and some won't give much of a damn either way.  And we, as editors, can remain shining champions of WP:NPOV. Mark H Wilkinson 23:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The dialogue was plainly suggesting that Jack was the Face of Boe.  Whether such a suggestion is "true" or not is not a meaningful question when dealing with a fictional work, and thus explanation doesn't come into it.--Trystan 23:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The background for the Face of Boe seems to deliberately centre around questionable anecdotes, hearsay and folklore, statements that the characters themselves ridicule as they relate them, essentially, because he's so old no one actually knows the truth. Jack's statements add to the ball of anecdotal evidence because nowhere does he say "over several billion years I mutated into a giant head in a jar". It's clearly meant as a sensible, yet still suitably mysterious ending to the subject rather than an explicitly canonical explanation. MrAngy 21:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Crucial details

message: Anyone wanna put that Jack and the Face have both apparently been pregnant before?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.191.211.217 (talk • contribs) 
:As a piece of trivia, it seems a little too random.--Trystan 18:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But they're supposed to be the same character!  That's an interesting link between them, I think
*I think it should go in. Its another link that connects the characters BethEnd 13:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Both pregnant 

message: I just want to know whether it's appropriate to add a spoiler tag to the second half of the history part, given that it contains spoilers for the end of series three, which has not aired in Australia, and spoilers for episodes after Face of Boe's last appearance in the show. I did think, given that I've seen Gridlock, that I'd be all right reading this article. Could there be a bit more of a warning - say, moving it to the next paragraph starting with 'It is revealed in 'Last of the Timelords  - before mentioning that the 'not alone' referred to the Master?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Secondsilk (talk • contribs) 
:*I would support that, as the third series is just being aired in the US now.  I did add spoiler tags earlier, but they were removed as redundant per WP:SPOIL.  But I was concerned about a different spoiler, nothing about the Master.-- aBSuRDiST  -T ☺ C- 02:37, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Spoiler warning?

message: The infobox lists his race as "Boekind"; I propose changing it to "Boekind (Possibly Human)" for 2 reasons. 1- Jack's statement, which IMO is conclusive enough that he will become the face of Boe- it explains how he knows about the master etc. 2- The Face of Boe does look somewhat like the Toglafane (sp?), which were obviously human (admittedly in a strange form) as well. I would say that The Face of Boe is human, but I'm aware that some believe it isn't 100% confirmed yet, and the topic is certainly still open for discussion, hence the word "possibly". Thoughts?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.99.2 (talk) 03:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Change 'Race' Listing in Infobox???

message: We know The Face of Boe is a giant head which has "probably" lived for "billions of years" (though nobody really believes it) but we don't know what Boe is; like anything else it's a one-off name that comes back a time or two.  Then we have Captain Jack Harkness, a human or humanoid, who though an accident with the TARDIS became a special kind of immortal.  Later he is revealed to be Boekind specifically; that is his race, and in the Torchwood episode "Adam" we see Boekind and they're humans or humanoids, not disembodied heads.  Also, in "Last of the Time Lords", Harkness tells the Tenth Doctor that he was called "The Face of Boe" back home.  This is all canon, it's seen in the episodes.  Over five billion years it is possible for a disembodied head of another race to somehow acquire the title, but we've seen alien weapon induced deformity (The Master uses it on the Tenth Doctor to age him, e.g.) so it is more likely that Harkness gets decapitated, and, being immortal, his head lives on and somehow grows into The Face of Boe as seen in Doctor Who.  However unlikely, grotesque, and disturbing that may be, it is all we have, but it is still speculation at best.  But again, that is speculation.  I would suspect that by the end of the Torchwood series, we will have explored the past as well as the future of Harkness, as that seems to be the most prominent story arc yet.  I am almost certain Torchwood will end with the two characters being reconciled or otherwise explained. NathanJ1979 (talk) 06:01, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Jack's people aren't called Boekind in Adam or in DW, he merely says he is from the Boeshane Peninsula. The counter argument runs that being from the 51st century and being a seasoned time traveller, that Jack, and the people of his time, could well be aware of the Face of Boe and his nickname may have in fact stemmed from a play on words with his name being similar to the first syllable of Boeshane. Also the face of Boe appeared on a screen in The Long Game set 200,000 years in the future, looking the same as he does 4.8 billion years later. I'm not saying either argument is 'correct', since being fictional characters neither interpretation would be true in any real sense of the word anyway, but both seem valid enough readings of the source material.Number36 (talk) 01:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Is there really a debate?

message: Russell T. Davies gives a pretty extensive interview to Alan Seppinwall of the Star-Ledger in which he says of the Face of Boe:
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/06/russell_t_davies_talks_doctor.html
: There was that moment where you revealed that Jack would eventually live so long that he'd become the Face of Boe. Was this something you planned all along with the character?
: It wasn't exactly planned. I did spend a long time thinking about Jack's immortality, and one day it occured to me there was another immortal character on the show. It made me laugh. To be honest, on the screen, it's couched in terms that are not absolute gospel. There are these spin-off books and comic books, and every now and then I'll see a script for one where they say definitively that he's the Face of Boe, and I always stop those from being printed. I have my own personal theories, but the moment it became very true or very false, the joke dies.
::So, he won't commit to it because it's funnier not to commit to it.  Sounds reasonable.
This may be a useful source to clarify Davies' opinion on the subject. --TS 09:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Star-Ledger interview and the Captain Jack "joke" 

message: Just saw this - is this 'confirmation' that the Face of Boe and Jack Harkness are the same?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YDmF4cnA2I  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.233.229 (talk) 05:05, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youtube video about Merge?