Talk:Yodok concentration camp

message: This prison has been the place of thousands of deaths of Christians. What was their crime? It was just being a Christian. This Wiki entry on this prison that omits the human rights violations of Christians is unfair. It shows prejudice. How many deaths of innocent Korean men and women must happen before it can be included and mentioned on this page?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.252.208.233 (talk) 23:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: To Who Ever Edited Out The Information Of Christian persecution and hate

message: Take a look at this image.
[http://hrnk.org/hiddengulag/images/Sinueuju_Overview.jpg)
Can you see any evidence here, if you take away the labels? Could the labels be put elsewhere at random? Could you take any picture from just outside Pyongyang, and find that it looks identical to this one and about a thousand other places?--Bjornar 12:05, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Satellite photos can only support the testimonies and identify the exact locations. For Yodok the photos show large camps, but of course cannot capture torture or executions. What “evidence” would you suggest? I could only imagine site visits by independent human rights observers. -- Gamnamu 18:05, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The problem of photo "evidence" 

message: Human rights observers went to Guantanamo and saw the US army mistreat human beings like they were animals. You all have seen this. Even young children down to age 12 are held for years in cramp cages without sentence. They are regularly subjected to pshychological and physical means of torture prohibited according to the Geneva convention. Also the US abduct people and send them to countries like Egypt where torture is routine business, thus the US outsource their use of torture. Still, the US are allowed to continue their practice, and human rights observers have not been able to accomplish anything. In an open society like the US, people are allowed to criticise, because their words have no effect, the people can do nothing.--Bjornar 12:13, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Similar to the DPRK media you like to talk about US and “Western” countries’ human rights violations in every detail, but when it comes to DPRK’s human rights violations the response is a flat denial of everything. My only point was to say: The situation improves, when human rights observers inspect the place and publish their findings. I guess you are happy that human rights organizations care about the people there and manage to help some of them. And I guess you trust that their allegations are justified, fact-based and without political agenda, don’t you? These organizations are working in many locations and I have no doubt they will follow the same guidelines everywhere including the DPRK. -- Gamnamu 18:08, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The problem of human rights observers and democracy 

message: The consonant cluster "kn" at the beginning of a word isn't possible in Korean.  This must be a very bad Romanization, or perhaps there's just a letter missing.  Either way, there's no way that "Knup-ri" is the real name of the place. --Reuben 21:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed it -- it's actually Kuŭp-ri, which apparently takes its name from having been the site of the town center of Ryodŏk-ŭp before the great flood of 1958.  Still not sure about "Kouek," which is also impossible in Korean phonology... -- Visviva 23:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks!  As for Kouek, it does look strange, but it's at least possible to write it, 고우엑 or 고웩.  But there's no hanja for 엑 or 웩 so that's unlikely to be right for a real place name. --Reuben 09:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point... it's not strictly impossible, but certainly unlikely.  Based on , I think that must be referring to 혁명화구역 (Hyŏkmyŏnghwa kuyŏk, Revolutionization district) in Taesuk-ri, which (according to the website) ex-prisoner reports indicate is now the primary area for executions and punishments. -- Visviva 10:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, if that's true it's one of the weirdest romanizations I've seen since Belle Palais -> 벨팔레 -> Velfarre! --Reuben 15:17, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Knup-ri

message: How has this article survived on Wikipedia? It's full of 'facts' like "...patrolled by 1,000 guards armed with automatic rifles, hand grenades and guard dogs." And yet, with no citations. It looks more like Chinese-whispers of mainstream media reports to me.
And before anyone screams, yes, I know there are some serious human rights problems in North Korea right now. They could be even worse than we think. Or they may not be as bad. But this article is all hearsay and conjecture without any citations, and while I'm inclined to side on the bad-stuff-in-NK view, the Western governments have pumped us with plenty of lies over the last few decades.
We should have hard facts on this. It's easy to write up damning stuff about North Korea, and largely that seems fair, but it's an incredibly closed country and 90% of the info we get about it is from Western journalists. And, many times, we've seen that they have their own agenda. So let's keep an open mind and get CITATIONS!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.56.103.229 (talk) 22:34, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately another big problem due to the closed-nature of the DPRK is that almost all external information is based on refugees, and increasingly, through the method of "Faction", or novel-style narrative of one's life. While themes and a broad take on a situation can be assessed from alot of these books, increasingly (most notably in regards to novels coming out of the tumultuous Cultural Revolution, as well as the Guatemalean civil war) many of them often either mix and match personal histories interchangeably, or adopt incidents heard about as part of the authors personal life. A number of Holocaust and Vietnam war hoaxers have been found out this way, by merely relating through the grapevine what they heard they cobbled together a fantastic scenario where just about everything had happened to them, even though often they were never in the situation they described. SiberioS (talk) 08:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

text: The information in this article (e. g. “patrolled by 1000 guards . . .”) is no hearsay or Chinese whispers. It is from testimonies of former Yodok prisoners. I did not find any reason to doubt these testimonies. Now every statement in the article has a reference, 94 in total. These references are mostly not from “Western media”, but directly from the original testimonies or from human rights organizations. And, yes, I’m convinced the human rights situation in Yodok camp is much worse than you could imagine or an encyclopedia could describe it.-- Gamnamu (talk) 12:57, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations?

message: See: http://stopnkgenocide.com/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.69.11.171 (talk) 19:14, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update needed! 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120309142353/http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA24/001/2011/en/2671e54f-1cd1-46c1-96f1-6a463efa6f65/asa240012011en.pdf to http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA24/001/2011/en/2671e54f-1cd1-46c1-96f1-6a463efa6f65/asa240012011en.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131019141624/http://nkdb.org/bbs1/data/publication/Political_Prison_Camp_in_North_Korea_Today.pdf to http://nkdb.org/bbs1/data/publication/Political_Prison_Camp_in_North_Korea_Today.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article says: "The prisoners live in dusty huts...", but satellite photos in the first "external link" show houses. If one of the first sentences in the article is questionable, it makes all article feel... exagerrated.
Someone should do aomething maybe?
185.150.154.49 (talk) 10:12, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dusty huts VS Satellite photos