Talk:Lost (2004 TV series)/Archive 5

message: Shouldn't we mention the release of the first season DVD and the Lost magazine here?
:I added the DVD releases.  I'm not familiar enough with the magazine to make a section about it. Jtrost 16:18, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  DVD, Magazine? 

message: The image used on the main page seems to be changing pretty rapidly nowadays. Perhaps there should be some discussion as to what image to use, instead of people changing it as they see fit?
Images I can remember which have been used in the past on this page are:
*General wallpaper style image of the characters
*Season 1 DVD box image
*Season 1 DVD inlay image
*ABC poster/ad style image (used as I write)
People seem to have ranging opinions on this. --Tomcage9 22:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally do not care so long as it has the logo ("Lost") and doesn't make the infobox awkward looking in size. K1Bond007 23:17, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I think the image you've chosen to revert to is the best one out of the ones already here on Wikipedia. It's probably the most universal; the wallpaper style image reflects the earlier episodes of season 1, with the wreckage in the background, and there's also the fact that there's no logo. The season 1 DVD box image reflects... the season 1 DVD box, and the last image just looks like an advert (which it is). As for the iTunes image, I think it brings up the argument about spoilers (i.e. no Boone, Claire's baby, Walt being absent, and the addition of Ana-Lucia and others). Bearing this in mind, the inlay seems the best option. --Tomcage9 23:28, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Programme Image 

message: I made a couple of changes to the cast list, but they were reverted, and I've reverted them back. Michelle Rodriguez appears in "Exodus" part 1; I just watched it last night. And if "enough time has passed that we can publicly refer to Boone in the past tense", then we need to add a spoiler warning to the cast list section, or else we'll ruin part of the series for those who haven't seen it yet. I've been watching season 1 for the first time, and came to this article to learn more about the cast. Listing Boone as only appearing in season 1 makes it pretty obvious that he doesn't survive to make it into season 2. I imagine there are plenty of people who haven't watched the show at all yet that might accidentally have that spoiled for them. android79 20:14, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't matter that she appears in Exodus: Part 1. She was a guest star at that point, and addition to the list is dependent upon being listed as a star. She did not receive star billing until the beginning of Season 2, and as such, requires (as even IMDB lists her as "2005-") a (Season 2) after her name. Further, Ian Somerhalder only received star billing for Season 1 (again, IMDB lists 2004-2005). That is the point of the Cast section, which, you'll see above, has been discussed at length. That is why they are listed that way. As for "spoilering" the cast list section, there is already a spoiler tag on the page, and it was added for a reason. We do not need spoiler tags for every section on the page. Baryonyx 20:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll concede the point about Rodriguez. However, the point of the cast list section ought to be to impart information to the reader about the cast, not to simply mimic whatever information IMDb has about the show. If some of that information spoils part of the series for the reader, it either shouldn't be in the section, or the section needs a spoiler warning. The spoiler warning currently is a part of the Season synopses section, which I was careful to avoid when I came to this article; I had assumed the Cast list section would not contain any spoilers. android79 21:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The section did not come about as it is simply by mimicking IMDb... it was a multiple part discussion that's cataloged for you to read on the Archives and on this page that led to what you see now, and it just so happens that IMDb is a good additional reference I was using to show how Boone is handled elsewhere. The discussion about Boone on this section at all grew particularly acrimonious at one point, so trust me when I say this has been discussed in detail. Furthermore, the spoiler tag is listed at the first part of the page in which spoilers begin, and it is pretty clear that spoilers follow for the entire rest of the page, as is done on virtually all other pages for TV shows I can think of. Did you not expect the story elements to contain spoilers, simply because it does not have a spoiler tag? I certainly hope not. Anyway, if you have an issue with the placement of the spoiler tag (perhaps it should be at the top, to make it clear that it applies to the whole page, instead of just a section), then that's a different issue altogether. I for one would support a move of the spoiler tag to the top of the page. Baryonyx 21:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "and it is pretty clear that spoilers follow for the entire rest of the page" – that is exactly what I am disputing. There's no standard for spoiler warnings, AFAIK, and I don't believe I've ever read another TV-show article closely enough to notice warning placement. I came to this page looking only for cast information, because I knew IMDb's list would potentially contain spoilers. I skipped directly to the cast section – I wanted to know what else Josh Holloway had had been in, but I didn't know his name. I assumed correctly that I would want to completely avoid other parts of the article because of spoilers; thus, I didn't even glance at those sections. I also assumed incorrectly that the cast list would not contain spoilers. Having a spoiler warning at the top of the article would help avoid that problem, but this article needs to also be accessible to readers who haven't seen the show yet and don't want any part of it ruined for them. android79 22:07, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I refer you to the above section called Navigation Template to see how this has played out here before. The article needs to be accessible, for sure... but at the same time, we shouldn't be expected to leave something out on the chance someone is coming here hoping to not be spoiled, as this is, after all, an encyclopedia. We cannot, and should not, hold every event in a TV show to be spoiler material ad infinitum, especially material that originally aired in April, 2005, and has been available on the Internet since that time (legally or not is not the point), has been discussed on fansites around the world, by people from many countries, and is also available on DVD. I'm not saying that everyone on Earth knows the fate of Boone... just that sufficient time has passed that we can add it to the site. I mean, I don't see how anyone could come to this site, knowing that Season 1 is over not just in the US and Canada, but in several nations around the world, and not expect to see information such as this. A spoiler would really be something more akin to someone posting on this page who dies in an upcoming episode that no one on Earth has seen outside of industry people (OK, maybe  exaggerating, but I hope you see the point there). Protection against spoilers is one thing, protection against the possibility of spoilers for someone who hasn't seen the series well after it is available is another. Other pages with large cast changes handle these things in a similar fashion; see The Sopranos, Desperate Housewives (which even goes so far as to list cast members as Former), 24, Homicide: Life on the Street (which doesn't even have a spoiler tag), Law & Order (same here), ER (TV series), The X-Files, Alias (TV series), etc. Each of these pages, along with the one for Lost would become one or two paragraph generalities if such information was held as spoilage permanently. There's a fine line that needs to be walked, and I don't think that this crosses it. Perhaps if we said: "Ian Somerhalder - Boone Carlyle (Season 1 - he dies in Do No Harm)", there'd be an argument we crossed it... but what we have doesn't and won't do that. That said, I'll move the spoiler tag up for you, so it's clear that people on the page proceed at their own risk. Baryonyx 23:01, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cast list 

message: Kate as Hitchcock leading ladies ?
What do you all think about adding something about the (to me) obvious allusion to Alfred Hitchcock’s films Marnie and Psycho in Kate's first flashback in "Born to run" ? 
The changing of hair colour and car plates reminded me very much of Marni and how she changes her hair colour and social security card (the visual of the car plates in the trunk and the collection of Social Security Card is quite similar) and of course the shower in motel room scene has resemblance to the famous shower scene in Psycho. 
Now, this would not be all that interesting, had it not been that both Marnie and Marion Crane are criminals, stealing from their employers and these scenes actually symbolizes how they deal with their crime. (Marnie- by changing her identity, Marion- by trying to clean it off), and the fact that they are criminals, but the viewers sympathies lies with them, and not the victims. I think this is an important part of the character Kate, and I think these allusions were used deliberately.
I would like to hear other people's opinions on this. 
P.s. I'm sorry. it was me who added the speculation's to the black and white part. I should of course have added it here..
*An allusion that's obvious to you may not be obvious to anyone else. Unless the show's creators or media critics have commented on these similarities, this analysis strays too far into original research for me. android79 16:39, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural references  

message: I saw on this page someone had added 2004-2005 to Shannon's character description, and also on the page about her character specifically, it says that she was killed by the shot.
Are we 100% certain that she is deceased? On this show, I'd rather err on the side of caution, and say at most that she appears to have been killed.
*It looks like a sure thing to me, given the promos that aired before the show and the media's reaction to this episode, but go ahead; I guess we'll find out next week for sure anyway. Besides, are we ever sure about anything on this show?  android79 16:36, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a fairly safe bet to say she's dead, as she's definitely dying as of the end of the episode. It's not like we can't fix it if, in the next episode, Jack appears out of thin air and starts life-saving surgery. :p Phoenix-forgotten 19:05, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Plus she was shot through what looked like several major organs and possibly the spine. -Litefantastic 04:48, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: However, in the preview for the next episode Ana-Lucia mentions that she killed someone that Sayid loves Weters 20:45, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are we 100% certain Shannon is dead? 

message: Hah! I found it and you didn't!
http://www.kraftkost.com/pages/1/index.htm
--159.134.54.161 22:30, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: !!!

message: Does anyone recognize the >: prompt from the mainframe's terminal as typical of some operating system from the late 60s/early 70s?  I've been wondering if there are any keys as to the possible utility of the computer (despite what the video warns of) there.  In "What Kate Did" Michael is seen fiddling with some cables right before Walt starts talking, and several episodes back Sayid of course fixed the machine after its display got shot out (or got buckshot through one of the mainboards?  I forget), but other than this there has been no other inquiry into this potentially huge source of information for the castaways. --70.224.39.162 12:06, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The prompt seen is not indicative of any particular hardware or software configuartion.  That prompt is a pretty standard shell prompt, and can be seen on mainframe systems, as well as unix, linux and even Windows and Mac boxes under certain conditions.  --DDG 18:31, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Mainframe 

message: [Talk comment moved from article to here]
- Dear whoever writes this article, (by the way you do a great job and I check for updates everyday!) I realized that the numbers also have a significance in history: my example, Julius Caesar was stabbed 23 times on March 15, 44 B.C. Strange huh? I read that these numbers come from Stephen King, I think you said? So maybe that influenced his idea for the numbers. Well I thought that and knew you would be the person to talk to about it. Keep up the great work! David Hoover (revoohdivad@yahoo.com) P.S. if you have time drop me a message!24.18.131.87 06:50, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: Should we use ABC's official episoide summaries, as opposed to our own. They are just as long and descriptive... User:Synflame 11:40, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think their episode summaries fit under fair use.  Jtrost 23:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode Summaries 

message: Now, I've been a leading proponent of the "Lost takes place in 2004" theory on some other sites, especially thanks to the Red Sox thing, but after reading all over the place (but, admittedly, never seeing the primary source) that Damon Lindelof has made it a specific point in an interview that we should not assume the flight crashed in 2004, we cannot be posting that information on the page. If anyone can find the source where Damon said this, it would be appreciated. I'm trying to track it down on The Fuselage myself, but the point remains... it is speculation to say that the island events are transpiring in 2004. Baryonyx 04:38, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Proof is that the flight takes place before Halloween 2004 (Red Sox will "never" win the series), but after March 2003 (the CIA mention Essam's terrorist cell disrupting the coalition). Thats to my recollection, but there's more proof, methinks Sceptre (Talk) 15:40, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

text: If Wikipedia's guide is 100% correct, the crash may have been in Early 2005, and that's that Walt is watching Power Rangers SPD, which didn't air until February this year (but then again, Australia may have got the episodes first, production of PR was in New Zealand, and here in England, we got Yu-Gi-Oh! episodes two months prior to America some time last year)Sceptre (Talk) 14:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A few sources on official websites give references to September 2004, but as with Doctor Who, canonicity is sketchy. Sceptre (Talk) 23:57, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lost's Timeline

message: Lost desperately needs a CONCISE summary of the events so far. It took me half an hour to read through all of Season One. How about we - and by 'we' I mean 'you' - draw up three separate history summaries; one for each group. The Survivors, the Tail-end Survivors (they get their own episode this Wednesday) and the Dharma Initiative's bunker people. And maybe one for The Others later on if we ever figure out who or what they are. -Litefantastic 04:48, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Summary

message: I added a section called "Fan Theories" which listed some common fan theories about what the island is, and Baryonyx deleted it saying: "Removed theory section as speculation, in addition to being content we decided to remove months ago."  I wasn't here for that discussion months ago, but I don't see why it shouldn't be included in the article.  Fan theories are an important aspect of the show, and the theories I listed are ones that I have, as a fact (not speculation) seen many times in forums, blogs, columns, etc.  Any person trying to learn about Lost would be missing a central point if they didn't know at least some of the fan theories. 
--207.172.73.17 23:30, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *If you had taken note of the comment I left on your Talk page, you would have seen that it is also Original Research to post information based on unverifiable sources. http://4815162342.com is a fan forum site. As stated in Wikipedia policy on Reliable sources, "Posts to bulletin boards and Usenet, or messages left on blogs, are never acceptable as primary or secondary sources." For Lost articles, the consensus here holds that the source for content should be drawn from information provided directly by ABC/the show's creators, or interviews of those involved with the show published by reliable sources. A well-established Web site which had a verifiable interview with David Lindelof, for example, might be acceptable (such as Lost-TV.com), but posts by fans to a fan forum would never be. —20:29, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Fan Theories

message: Questionariffic: Is this section going to start turning into the DVD version of Airdates of Lost? How many countries will be included here? Is such information encyclopedically significant? --LeFlyman 23:02, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I originally added the information I found on Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk.  Maybe someone else can clarify exactly what is happening with the region 2 releases.  It appears that England is releasing the first season in two parts and every other region 2 country is releasing it as a full season.  I would like to see a source for this. Jtrost 00:06, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would support moving this information to another page, such as Airdates of Lost. It is clutter, and rarely something sought after. Synflame 00:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Would you mind connecting the dots for me between airdates and DVD releases?  They're two completely spearate things.  If you think that the DVD release section is clutter, lets give it its own page, much like the DVD releases of The Simpsons has. Jtrost 18:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion of DVD Releases? 

message: Why is there more than one episode list?, I think that compiling both and all seasons into one list would be much better. 68.6.112.70 07:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: episode listS?