Talk:Altiero Spinelli

message: === — June 2005===
To the editors of Wikipedia:
As far as we are aware, there is no copyright on the text about Altiero Spinelli that has partly been reproduced here. It has been used so many times by so many people that we have lost track of its original source, and we are more than happy for anyone to use it. We would therefore hope you could restore the page.
Jon Worth
President of JEF-Europe, and webmanager of the page about Spinelli
jon.worth@jef-europe.net
:You can't release per the GFDL text you don't have copyright on. The article will be deleted.--Duk 19:11, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: March 2009 &mdash;

message: To the editors of Wikipedia:
As far as we are aware, there is no copyright on the text about Altiero Spinelli that has partly been reproduced here. It has been used so many times by so many people that we have lost track of its original source, and we are more than happy for anyone to use it. We would therefore hope you could restore the page.
Jon Worth
President of JEF-Europe, and webmanager of the page about Spinelli
jon.worth@jef-europe.net
:You can't release per the GFDL text you don't have copyright on. The article will be deleted.--Duk 19:11, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  &mdash; June 2005

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Altiero Spinelli. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050408162709/http://www.federalunion.org.uk/archives/ventotene.shtml to http://www.federalunion.org.uk/archives/ventotene.shtml
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: RE: communism, he was member of communist party until 1937. Not sure why would you call him communist after 1937? There is no evidence in documents, that he thought about himself as communist or espoused communist ideology after leaving communist party. 2nd Source you quote, says: "he was elected with support from communist party in 70-ties, but was not a member of the party and maintained relationships with politicians from christian democracy etc" it doesn't say: "he was a communist". So 2nd source (Italy in the International System) confirms he was not a communist. First source says "communist politician" but it is not clear why, it also refers to 1941, and whole book is about East Europe, doesnt look to be written by people specializing in Spinelli or federalism. From other sources and his whole bio here it seems clear he was not committed to communism after 1937. Pawelmhm (talk)
:Hi Pavel, I added “former” communist, as per sources (there are plenty) but if you think that info shouldn't be in the lead of the article or that it should be changed to "left wing” etc. feel free to make the adjustment.GizzyCatBella (talk) 17:35, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ; 
* "During his years of confinement he moved away more and more from the Communist ideology."
* "His last years in jail and early years in confinement saw his transition from communism ( he formally left fhe Communist Party in 1937) to federalism";
* "In 1937, repulsed by what he had managed to learn in prison about Stalin, he renounced communism and instead became a Democratic Socialist"
* His solitary reflections in jail led him to choose the value of freedom and to give up communism in 1937.
* Deserted the PCI, having become disillusioned with Stalinism, and 'shifted to Socialism'.
* "an anti- Fascist, he espoused Communism before the war until the enormities of Stalinism drove him out of the party in 1937"
Whatever personal opinion you may hold on the compatibility of "Socialism", "Communism", "Federalism", "European Federalism", "Democratic Socialism"; "Stalinism", "the value of Freedom", et. al... the points that sources suggest vis-à-vis the lead are clear:
# the notability of the Communist ideology he professed in the 1920s and early 1930s (until finally breaking with the PCI in 1937) comes from both his imprisonment and his estrangement from both the ideology and the party in the 1930s. If neither of those are mentioned in the lead, it doesn't make sense to mention the Communist bit there (not to say the first statement) when his early life is concerned.
# Despite what some random source states, overwhelming majority of sources don't consider him "a communist" by the time of 1941, when he drafted the manifesto of Ventotene (actually mentioning he had estranged from both party and ideology during his 10-year confinement instead).
# In regards to the political affiliation, the fact that he later contested elections in the 1970s as independent candidate within the PCI lists (and how that would merit the Communist bit in the lead) demands a different analysis from sources (absent up to this point, I may add).--Asqueladd (talk) 20:07, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commmunist politician