Talk:Mustafa Kemal Atatürk/Archive 4

message: WoW.  Didn't realize Ataturk was Albanian in origins but then again this site has several questionable people on its list...Benito Mussolini one of the biggest promoters of fascism opressors of Arberesh in Italy "Albanian"?  Proof please.    ~Mallaccaos, 4 May 2006
I have read about his Jewish roots. It is a fact that he attended Sefardic Jeshiva in Saloniki and alongside with Jamal Talaat and Enver was a graduate of that Jeshiva. I really believe that Ittihat va Taraky was a masonic lodge and Ataturk was Jewish himself. That is the reason he was so anti islamic as it is cited in the article.
* Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was %100 Turkish. He was from the Yoruk Turks, a nomadic Turkish group that still lives in Antalya today. The Ottoman Emprie sent a big Turkish population to Balkans to form a stronger order on Europe. Atatürk's ancestors were from this group of people. Some would argue that he had an European look but this is all wrong. He was brown-haired. After his death, Turkish painters showed him as blond in their pictures because Atatürk is representing the sunrise on the Turkish nation. Deliogul 15:25, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: jIf you accept everything that they told to you, this is the outcome. Have you ever seen Atatürk? I am also defending that he was %100 Turkish but sadly I am not even sure if you know anything about Turkish roots, Yoruk Turks and other tribes. Yes, there are maybe millions of blonde Turkic people out there but Atatürk was light brown-haired and this doesn't mean that he can't has blue eyes. Thesedays people(maybe animals I don't know) argue that a blonde person can't be a Turk(they say that just to claim a wrong theory about the origins of Mustafa Kemal Pasha) but the funny thing is Turks can be blonde but actually Atatürk wasn't blonde and I only gave this data because it is interesting, it has nothing to do with ideologies. There is a little difference betwen light brown hair and the blonde hair of Turkish originated people and this is not a fabricated theory. Also stop talking about ideology. In Wikipedia, the only important thing is the academic writing and being polite. A polite person should introduce him/herself to the person that he/she talks to. You read my paragraph but you didn't understand anything and that makes me sad. With respect, the son of the nomadic warriors, Deliogul 11:04, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albanian??? 

message: Please REDIRECT all articles under the topics:
*Atatürk
*Mustafa Kemal
*Kemal Atatürk
to HERE:
*Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
OK, let me explain, he has been referred to as Mustafa, Mustafa Kemal, Mustafa Kemal Pasha, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and Gazi Mustafa Kemal Atatürk throughout his life and there after but he had never been referred to as "Kemal Atatürk" ever. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is his full name, thus he should be referred to as. I'm trying to corret this mistake, please stop resisting, otherwise I'll be doubting your good intentions. Kertenkelebek 16:11, 16 June 2006 (EET)
===Survey===
*Oppose move. In non-Turkish literature He is usually referred to as "Mustafa Kemal", "Atatürk" or "Kemal Atatürk". People withouth an in-depth knowledge of Turkish history can get confused and get the impression that "Mustafa Kemal" and "Atatürk" were two different people. I thus believe "Kemal Atatürk", combining the two, is the appropriate term for this article. Please do not move the article until consensus is reached. Unilateral moves easily leaves a horrible mess with dead links, blank pages and ublicate pages. Bertilvidet 13:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, George W. Bush are all names preferred and used by the owner of the names themselves, therefore they're the most common names (actually most of the people don't even know about their real names). However as  indicated before "Kemal Atatürk" alone is a missing thus wrong definition for Atatürk's name, just like referring to Bush as "Walker Bush". Kertenkelebek 07:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggested move

message: *Oppose move. In non-Turkish literature He is usually referred to as "Mustafa Kemal", "Atatürk" or "Kemal Atatürk". People withouth an in-depth knowledge of Turkish history can get confused and get the impression that "Mustafa Kemal" and "Atatürk" were two different people. I thus believe "Kemal Atatürk", combining the two, is the appropriate term for this article. Please do not move the article until consensus is reached. Unilateral moves easily leaves a horrible mess with dead links, blank pages and ublicate pages. Bertilvidet 13:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, George W. Bush are all names preferred and used by the owner of the names themselves, therefore they're the most common names (actually most of the people don't even know about their real names). However as  indicated before "Kemal Atatürk" alone is a missing thus wrong definition for Atatürk's name, just like referring to Bush as "Walker Bush". Kertenkelebek 07:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: There is consensus for a move to Mustafa Kemal Atatürk; page moved. Eugène van der Pijll 22:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Result

message: Please stop the move war; this discussion should decide, not unilateral moves. Septentrionalis 23:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Move war

message: Father Side:
Family of Ali Rıza Efendi, who is father of "Mustafa Kemal", were Kocacık (Kocahamza) Yörüks who were settled down to "Manastır Province" from "Aydın".
Ali Rıza Efendi was born in 1839 at Manastır's "Kocacık sub-district" where was dependent to "Debre-i Bala sanjak". The family had flee to Selanik later. Father of Ali Rıza Efendi was "Kızıl Hafız Ahmet Efendi" who was a primary school teacher and his uncle was "Kızıl Hafız Mehmet Efendi". Nickname of "Kızıl" and it was called "Kocacık" where they were settled down show that his roots from "Kızıl - Oghuz Turkmens" who were one of the most important Turkish tribes about Turkization of Anatolia. And only aristocrat Turks (princes, imams, high bureaucrats, high educated ones, powerfull ones, who had slaves and so on) had that "Efendi" title in Ottoman Empire. So father of Atatürk came from a noble Turkish family.
Mother Side:
Family of Zübeyde Hanım who is mother of "Mustafa Kemal" were Turkmens who had settled down in "Sarıgöl (Balkans)" from "Taşkale town" where was dependent to "Karaman (Anatolia) province" after collapsaded of "Karaman Principality". There was - Sarıgöl - a Turkish inhabitting where was founded after the Ottoman Empire conquered the "Macedonia" and "Thessaly". "Sarıgöl sub-district", where was at the west of "Vodina sanjak", were 16 Turkish villages which were compeletly existed by Turkmens. Zübeyde Hanım's father "Fethullah Ağa", who was from "Sofu - Zade" family, had flee from "Sarıgöl" to "Lanzaka" where was near of Selanik and purchased a farm there at the top of 1800's. Zübeyde Hanım was born in here in 1857. Zübeyde Hanım's grandfather "Feyzullah Efendi's" big uncle had gone back to Konya again and joined to "Mevlevi Denomination". Family name of Zübeyde Hanım's family were saved as "Konyarlar" to Ottoman municipality and they were called with that name becasue they were from "Konya". One of the farms of Atatürk was "Sarıtay" farm in "Kızıllar" village where is 41 km far away from "Taşkale" where the family of Atatürk's mother emigrated.
That's to say he was neither Jewish nor Albanian as the Greeks claim. Regards. Doluca 19:46, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A person is what him/herself self-identifies to be. Fortunately, our brains don't have a ROM with pre-programmed ethnicities according to our geneaology. People are raised to be Greeks, Albanians, Jews, Americans or Turks. I think there is no doubt whatsoever about Kemal in that sense. Anything else is redundant, unless ofcourse you mean that Jewish or Albanian genes are inferior, so a man as wise as Kemal is in danger of belonging to some sort of lesser people! :NikoSilver: 22:25, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Interesting. Would you mind wikifying some of the information as an "ancestry" or "family" subsection of the article? User:Dimadick
Nikosilver, do not take the disscussion to another path. I've just written the real roots of him against the effort of changing history of greeks and for enlighten the people. Could you please show me where I mean "Jewish or Albanian genes are inferior"?! YOU greeks think so as we can see from massacres of Jews and Albanians (along with Turks) in Peloponessia by Greeks. --Doluca 20:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Now, now. Let's remain civil. —Khoikhoi 20:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I've personally beheaded lots of them. Can you please stop this complete lack of WP:AGF in whatever a Greek says? Didn't you understand that my comment was actually supporting? Add your info in the article, but keep in mind it doesn't matter if his genes were Sumerian/Chinese because he was raised to be a Turk and he felt like one. End of story. :NikoSilver: 20:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Suit yourself. I'd add it as a plus if there were claims otherwise. And it is a much better argument than genes-talk which is largely considered a pseudoscience.:NikoSilver: 21:34, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Roots of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

message: ??no wonder genocide denial is a cultivated hobby among turkish people ?? What kind of an edit summary is this User:Apocolocynthosis?? Please go read WP:CIVIL and refrain from engaging in such racist attacks.. Baristarim 09:57, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lutherian wrote that Ataturk was in no way affiliatet with the Young Turk movement. Against all evidence! - That equals denial!Apocolocynthosis 14:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:Civil]]