Talk:Motivation for rape

message: This paragraph should be removed
"Some rapists rape because they have an emotional need to feel and act powerful during sex. Some rapists rape because they crave sadistic sex. Some rapists rape because they are pedophiles, and can't legally have relations with those they physically desire. Some rapists rape because they are flooded with hormones, and are overwhelmed with sexual desire. These rapists are typically teenagers who engage in acquaintance rape or date rape. Some rapists rape because they have few morals and little respect for the law, and they find a "crime of opportunity," meaning a victim in a situation where chances of getting caught are slim, and/or the consequences slight. Some rapists rape because they feel angry toward all women for the way one woman treated them. Some rapists rape because they themselves were raped. Some rapists rape because they feel sexually inadequate."
This paragraph really needs to be rewritten by somebody who knows about this topic and can actually write or just be completely deleted. Statements such as "Some rapists rape because they are flooded with hormones" and "Some rapists rape because they have few morals and little respect for the law" and especially "Some rapists rape because they feel angry toward all women for the way one woman treated them." There are logical fallacies and statements without any proof in this paragraph but I don't even think they are worth pointing out because the writing in general is just so horrible. I myself cannot write very well nor do I know much on this topic. So if there is somebody that can rewrite this (even completely change it) please do. If it is not rewritten or deleted in 14 days I will delete it. If anyone has a problem with me deleting this, let me know before that. Thank you.--68.3.237.14 05:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The paragraph needs direct citation, but I don't believe it's poorly written and I don't sense the "logical fallacies" you allude to.  You should point them out, because when we discard the writing quality, it's the basis of your objection.  I'm not an expert on the subject either, but it seems like a reasonable overview of motives. Don't be lazy and delete it because of a vague objection.--Son of Somebody 13:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: More than anything I believe the lack of citation is what makes this paragraph bad. All the reasons listed seem to be the stereotypical reasons people say rape occures. Claims such as " Some rapists rape because they feel angry toward all women for the way one woman treated them" seem like its from a Law and Order episode. Although this may be true, without proof I do find it hard to believe. Since this article is from a psychological perspective and the exact causes of rape seem to be vague, pointing out causes that seem to originate as anecdotal evidence is not a good idea. Some of the statements made I believe are obvious reasons people may rape but still I would like to see a citation. . Even making the phrase "Some rapists MAY rape because.." would be a big improvement. The article leads the reader to believe these ARE the reason rapists rape. The main basis of the objection is there is no proof or citation for these claims not so much logical fallacies as that can be fixed with better wording. Lastly, I do not see why we would "discard the writing quality" as a reason since I still believe it is not written well. I do not want to delete this article (and I will not delete because of your objection) I just would like to see it improved and have citations.--Tooiha 12:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Added .  I would be astonished if research contradicted the assertions, though.--Son of Somebody 13:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I've made an attempt at cleaning up the paragraph.  More work needs to be done though as the tone is not objective.  Most, if not all, of the bullet points appear to be conjecture needing citation or are redundant having been posited earlier in the article. Geneffects 23:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paragraph needing to be removed or completely rewritten 

message: ::That is not all that is here. What does "being a Native American" have to do with this ? That could be seen as a racist slur, so I'm removing it. Martial Law 23:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The history tab reveals where I found the racist slur. Martial Law 23:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Placed proper wiki-ref. to this matter. Someone reading this article, and when he/she sees (before removal) the section "being a Native American" will think that is a racist slur. Just stating a major concern. Martial Law 00:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Really, what does "...being a Native American..." have to do with Causes of rape ? Martial Law 00:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible racist slur

message: What about society? I'm not a specialist on this topic or anything, but isn't it obvious that certain aspects of western society such as advertisments where women are depicted as objects and sleazier and sleazier fashions contribute somewhat to a mentality which may justify the idea of rape in the rapist's mind? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.242.48.201 (talk) 06:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Society

message: I don't know where to begin, so I won't. Calling this section unencyclopedic is a grave understatement. While I have the utmost respect for its intent, it needs to be completely purged and rewritten. 
:    * Chemical dependency counselors - Beware of certain counselors if you are undergoing treatment for chemical dependency issues. For the most part, the majority of them mean well. However, keep in mind that some of them were once people with their own chemical dependency problems, and some, have only managed to "mask" their anti-social tendencies rather than resolve them completely. What's worse is that some are well-respected members of the community who are skilled at evading the radar, primarily by shifting the blame onto you. Things to look out for are counselors who are overly-friendly and want to go well out of their way to help you with anything. This signifies a lack of respect for your personal boundaries, privacy, and autonomy as a person, and is not conducive to a healing environment. A counselor who means well, would not promote a clingy or co-dependent attachment, as they would clearly see the potential danger and inevitable whiplash in such a predicament. The potential rapist counselor can look like anyone and come from any walk of life. They are in love with the idea of playing the hero or rescuer in your life, but are doing so only to serve their interests. There are strings attached, oftentimes sexual in nature. They are honing in on you (the safer target) to satisfy the unmet needs in their personal lives, mostly romantic difficulties and/or marital problems. These counselors will prey on your life history, rearrange it, and are gifted at locating and exploiting your personal weaknesses (i.e. your self-reported character defects at meetings). Beware especially if you are the survivor of sexual abuse. Some will attempt to misuse program jargon to manipulate you into a sexual relationship, often claiming that they are the man you have been waiting for. A common tactic used is the "admitting to being powerless is powerful." Yea it is powerful, to the perpetrator salivating like Pavlov's dog in the corner after hearing you announce your vulnerability that is.
This subsection being a prime example. Ignoring the inscructive first-person engagement with the reader, this is case-specific to the point of absurdity! It is tantamount to warning against people who have had a corrective surgery for a double hernia at the age of four. It is also an example of association fallacy. 
I'm in favour of deleting all uncited content from this entire section: i.e, everything, and starting from scratch. Intuitively, I'd say it has probably been plagiarized anyway.  
The only immediate action I'm taking is in deleting the example subsection listed above. -Etafly 06:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warning signs of potential rapists 

message: I changed the sentence in the opening paragraph, "all forms of male-female rape or female-male rape". This is redundant. What the heck? Women can't rape men. They can molest, commit sexual battery, even commit "statutory rape" but a man needs an erection to have sexual intercourse, (rape is forced sexual intercourse) and it's very hard to force an erection. 
72.64.142.97 (talk) 04:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Female-male rape 

message: IMO, most of the recent edits were very good. I have restored three refs that I believe are important to the topic. ResearchEditor (talk) 02:16, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: More re-writing, it's actually sourced now, though the presentation links aren't my favourite.  I've removed two ELs - the geocities link on the history of rape was to geocities, and was not really about the motivation of rape, and was not even solely about rape.  The Csun link had three dead links and perhaps eight unlinked journal articles.  I didn't see the point in including it as I really, really doubt eight articles is comprehensive.  If they're good articles, find them, cite them and expand the page with them.  WLU (talk) 04:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good edits. I have added one book and a url to the other book. ResearchEditor (talk) 02:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Undid both.  As stated here, further reading should not duplicate content already cited in the page; Ellis is cited three times already, which is quite adequate.  The link to the APA sales site was also removed - the reason ISBNs are provided is so there is no need to link to, and promote, a specific sales site.  There's a policy or guideline somewhere I think, I coud try to find it if you're really interested.  WLU (talk) 12:37, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree about Ellis book. Had provided this URL http://books.apa.org/books.cfm?id=4316047 to give information about the book. Please provide guideline on sales sites when you can. ResearchEditor (talk) 03:59, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Note Wikipedia:Book sources, which all ISBN fields that are filled out link to.  There's also WP:ELNO, #5.  I've asked an admin, but really there's just no need.  What does the sales page add?  The publisher is already in the template and wikilinked to boot.  The summary of the book can't really be added or cited, and doesn't really help the page anyway.  I really don't see the difference between linking to this page versus linking to an amazon sales page, and no-one does that.  Did the summary of contents have anything you consider really useful to the page?  Otherwise I see it as spam/advertising, even if it is to a non-profit that publishes a lot of good, reliable content.  For me, spam is spam, even if it's with good intentions (and I've no doubt of that).  If User:Jfdwolff responds to my comment I'll post you a message, or if anything else turns up, but I've a whisper of a memory that I read it in response to a dialogue on a talk page with someone, and I don't know who.  WLU (talk) 16:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent edits 

message: I'd like to propose adding a notation to the section relating Susan Brownmiller's theories to the effect that her viewpoints represent second-wave feminism.  The reason for this is that not all feminists share her views on rape, and she is considered by some to be quite an extremist on the subject.  Though I am among feminists who consider Brownmiller to be far too extreme in this regard, I do recommend her book "Against Our Will", simply for its thought-provoking nature.
Nevertheless, it would be appropriate to find some NPOV way, in the article, to note that Brownmiller does not speak for all feminists.  -Kasreyn (talk) 22:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brownmiller and Rape 

message: The scientifically pursued notion of a "genetical predisposition" towards rape, homosexuality, insanity or any other "abnormal" forms of behavior is ultimately a politically motivated enforcement of materialistic ideology. The innitial psychological value for coping with a possibly shaming experience is grossly outweighted by the implied genetical inferiority of such a "claimed" genetic disposition. The biological ability to rape, be gay or mad can be detected in all human races and cultures. Yet in the oldest prevailing forms of human cultures men have little say in choosing their mates and have little notion towards aggression.
Anyway the assumption that intra-species aggression leads to an evolutionary advantage is a social-darwinistic artefact. Animals usually do not harm others of their kind. If they would, it would be a disadvantage for the other individual in exchange for offsprings that maybe have a higher inclination towards intra-species aggression. The fierce male lion can be frequently seen to jump and kill animals of far greater proportions, yet when two adolescent males meet, even with females in heat around, there is seldom more than posing involved. Also the notion that it could have been difficult for our ancestors to conceive is hilarious. Not conception is difficult but nourishment of offsprings. The perceived difficulty to successfully procreate stems from the inventions of ownership of land/recources and labour for nourishment. Before that time intra-species aggression might have been useful as deterent/didactic. Then, when we arrive at inter-species violence of noticable levels, i wonder how genetics can assume the replacement of one individual for another to be of evolutionary value and how they define that value to be of evolutionary proportion. Breed and cull might be the correct term here. Incidentally woman do not fancy being raped and frequently show strong avoidance behavior. Since the world is full and flight takes money they have to settle for the "security" of associating with "successful" individuals or groups emitting the right kind of aggression/power. Suggesting that this could have been a successful tactic in early years when space was plenty, food was free and brothers and sisters numbering in the dozens is beyond me. Dominating in western cultures these phaenomenons have nothing to do with evolution. (Sorry for reposting here and not deleting under "Page move")— Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.104.89.237 (talk) 13:42, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some[who?] argue that the capacity or propensity to rape is adaptive in the sense that biologically, men with genes which increase their propensity to rape may have had more children, furthering the s