Talk:Nightwish/Archive 1

message: :The recent commercial success of Nightwish has made some conservatieve fans to label them as pop metal.
Then why do we classify them as such in lead para? Apart from that the label "pop metal" doesn't necessarily describe their musical style very accurately. I also have problems with relabeling because of commercial success. Shinobu 13:40, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I am reverting these edits. --Malathion 14:11, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: I refernence you all to the symphonic metal and power metal articles. Leyasu 07:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: See www.nightwish.com
*We know, it's in the article :pSoothingR 11:09, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This article was worked on by a team of proffesional editors all fluent in English, and because of that it reached FA status. If you dont understand it, i suggest getting a dictionary out. Ley Shade 02:19, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tarja Turunen was kicked from the band 

message: What's the policy on DVD-Singles in the discographies? Do we need to list them under DVD Releases as well. I'd see this as generally useless, and I think just stating in the list of singles that the particular single was released on dvd as well, will do fine.SoothingR 08:41, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: DVD-Singles

message: Leyasu and I have had a bit of an argument whether or not the inline references should stay or go. I'd personally like to keep it all. It makes it easy to verify and it's just part of WP:CITE. I don't want to let this evolve into a 3RR-dispute, so therefore I'm consulting the rest of you guys. Should we add them back in and follow WP:CITE, or leave them out and follow WP:IAR? SoothingR 16:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now there are quite a lot of citations, so I would prefer keeping them as links or references. If all the links are put together at the bottom, someone would need to check every reference until finding the source for their original doubt. -- ReyBrujo 17:33, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

text: The only problem I find with these references is that the numbers in links are confusing, since they do not link to the item with that number, for example [1] takes you to seventeenth item, while the URL says 'endnote_19'. Readers like me most likely go 'wtf?' and do not use the references ever again. I don't think they should be removed though. -- Parasti 20:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: They have a box set out, I don't know if this is mention-worthy or not in the Discography or something.  Just thought I'd note it.  You can see it by clicking on the following link:
--Naha|(talk) 22:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not worth it. All that's in the box-set were previously released albums (Angels Fall First, Oceanborn, Wishmaster and Over the Hills and Far Away.SoothingR 20:08, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Box Set

message: Is Nightwish responsible for a song titled 10th Man Down? I would also like to know the lyrics to this song. Kanjilearner 22:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Try this link here. If this site doesnt list it, then they probally didnt release the track. Ley Shade 22:58, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it's their song. And lyrics are easily accessible through search engines.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING(Я) 10:49, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you'd also like to know which of Nightwish's albums it's on, it's the second song on Over the Hills and Far Away. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 04:58, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  10th Man Down 

message: What is the policy on adding a list of unofficial releases (generally known as bootleg recordings to the biography/discography of a band?  I think Wikipedia should stick to official releases only. 
Why? Well, for bands that have sold more than 19 cds there usually are dozens if not hundreds of different bootlegs. Often poor quality, and the same shows are released under several names. Therefor the list is never complete, and can never be checked for accuracy. 
Tokus 10:00, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A little late maybe, but I've nominated them for deletion here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bless the Century Child.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING(Я) 18:32, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  unofficial releases (bootlegs) 

message: This article lacks a list of their music videos. If someone who is more familiar with the band than me could create a list of their music videos it would be much appreciated. Also it would be preferable to have external links going to sites where the videos can we watched free of charge (legally). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.203.54.117 (talk • contribs) .
: A collection of their free available videos is [link to copyvio website removed] --Valah 21:08, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The FAQ on their official forum has a list of released videos and where they can be downloaded legally.--The unexpected 03:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Don't get the "Download legally" part. Is like saying that the only place to download Microsoft Media Player is Microsoft. Once something has the official authorization from the band to be downloaded, it can be downloaded legally from any other place--Valah 10:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nightwish Music Videos

message: It is just me... at 1024x768, the logo is barely readable...? -- ReyBrujo 02:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe turning it into a SVG would fix that. The thinner parts of the words can't be seen, at least down here. -- ReyBrujo 02:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed this too... Is anybody able to fix it? —Squalla 00:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nightwish logo 

message: Why the heck is Samppa Hirvonen article named Samppa and not Samppa Hirvonen ? I just don't get it. Samppa is a very common name in Finland. ---Majestic- 17:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question... I'll move the page to Samppa Hirvonen. Any additional info on Samppa Hirvonen (such as date and place of birth) is also welcome.  —Squalla 18:53, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samppa Hirvonen 

message: The problem is simple: We cannot fit Nightwish in a genre WE think it falls under. This would be POV of the editor part. We must find sources and cite them. It would be easy: All Music Guide, bnrmetal, etc all provide a reliable references. Any other editorial behavior over a controversial matter would be POV and prone to revert by not abiding to wikipedia guidelines of No original researh, NPOV', Verifiability. Regards Loudenvier 11:44, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, though I'm still not sure how to act in a situation where I find someone adding genre classifications which I believe aren't accepted by the genre's community of listeners.  Am I within my rights to delete such a claim if it is not backed by a reference?  It would be nice to have a Wikipedia policy on this topic. G Rose 15:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no need for a new policy because there's already policy on this topic: any claims that you think controversial, if not backed-up by a proper reference, you can simply delete it, or, better yet, put the  template (looks like this: )for a while and then, if no reference is made in time, delete or change it. Wikipedia is a collective collaboration efort. Common sense and discussion are the ultimate guidelines. Loudenvier 16:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  By the way, Nightwish's genre classification is blurred. To me they sound Power Metal in a neoclassical framework. They're sometimes symphonic (I do not count operactic vocals as symphonic, I count only arrangments, which they sometimes employ). They are gothic influenced (lyrics, appearance, background, mood, etc.). It's best to avoid a direct label such as: Nightwish is a power metal band, because it would be POV (unless it was stated on their official site). The current intro is somewhat on its way to be uncontroversial, just a few changes and the addition of some references will make it shine! By the way (again), Nightwish is a great band (although I did prefer their early efforts to their later...) Loudenvier 16:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The big problem with genre classification: Power, Symphonic, etc 

message: Tarja's open letter in response to her expulsion from the band is cited as a reference in the article at http://www.tarjaturunen.com/en/tarjaletter.html from last October 31.  It's no longer available from her web site, and nor is it on archive.org.  Anyone know another source for the text of the letter?  Cain Mosni 20:22, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for expressing your concerns. I've fixed it.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING(Я) 20:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Asked here. -- ReyBrujo 20:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Apparently, Google cache does not have it anymore. Only the dutch and spanish versions. -- ReyBrujo 20:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uhm?...Rey? I take it that the removal of my previous comment was an accident?—♦♦ SʘʘTHING(Я) 21:03, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, sorry, dunno why I didn't see the clash warning. Sorry again. >_< -- ReyBrujo 21:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tarja's open letter

message: Should the Over the Hills and Far Away EP really be under singles. The single version of Over the Hills and Far Away is almost not existent, The Official Nightwish website lists Over the Hills and Far Away in with the other albums and it means that every other page related to Nightwish will need to be updated to reflect the change. Rainer1 02:38, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Over the hills and far away is available in special Nightwish box sets, it is quite notable. The EP, i think, is also listed on the Nightwish website with some extra songs on. (Neostinker 17:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Over the Hills and Far Away EP 

message: At the end of the A Day Before Tomorrow documental there is a list of all Nightwish shows, including date. In case we need to date a concert, we can verify dates there. -- ReyBrujo 04:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of concerts 

message: Quoting the End of Innocence DVD,
"Third and the Mortal, Theatre of Tragedy and The Gathering – those bands were a great inspiration at the time."
A pity I don't understand Finnish, but the subtitles are fine enoguh. -- ReyBrujo 05:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Add Stratovarius: At that point Stratovarius was a huge influence for everybody – and you can hear that on the album, too. -- ReyBrujo 05:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inspiration 

message: Just a few things. NO roumors about who Nightwishs new singer should be posted until it is put up on the main Nightwish page. No roumors about Floor of AF, Simone from Epica, Liv from Leave's Eyes, etc should be posted. They are just that roumors that are false and not true. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.245.83.180 (talk • contribs) .
:Actually, if we have a reliable source where a determined singer is rumored to be the next one, it could be included in the article. We can't, though, include rumors coming from forums, mailing lists or fan sites, though. -- ReyBrujo 03:09, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, according to our Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Verifiability guideline and policy, primary sources (in this case, the band website) is not a reliable source. We need to use secondary sources for most of the information, and primary sources should be used only when absolutely necessary. -- ReyBrujo 15:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ruomors are just that 

message: Nightwish is not Gothic metal. They have very few if any songs that have a gothic sound in it. Most major sites don't even list them as Gothic Metal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.245.83.180 (talk) 01:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not Gothic Metal  

message: Any source or reason for the following? US is not the world. Is it appropriate to tell so much about US in the start of the article? Maybe Europe have evaluated Nightwish much longer before?
:they did not achieve worldwide fame until the release of the album Once (2004). This album led to Nightwish video clips being shown on MTV in the United States and inclusion of their music on U.S. movie soundtracks. Their biggest U.S. hit, "Wish I Had an Angel", made it onto two U.S. film soundtracks, as a way to promote their first North American tour. They later produced three singles and music videos for the album, and "Sleeping Sun", from the 2005 "best of" compilation, Highest Hopes, prior to vocalist Tarja Turunen's departure.
--Ilya K 17:06, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree; this passage is misleading. They've been famous in Europe and South America ever since Oceanborn came out. I'll change the passage. Óðinn 15:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree. Currently it sounds like outside of their home country they were nobodies until the became popular in the US, when this is obviously not the case. The Kinslayer 15:50, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Very good edit. Nightwish is very popular in Brazil since Oceanborn. In fact the last album wasn't so welcomed here as the previous two... Loudenvier 17:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: US is not the World

message: I think the top of the page that mentions Opera and Epic Metal shouldn't be included on the page because Epic Metal is basically just a synonym for Power Metal and Opera Metal doesn't exist, though it is used by a few people who seem to have a lack of knowledge of opera and metal genres.  Just because Tarja Turunen is a classically trained Opera singer it doesn't mean that the band is an opera band.  I do agree certain songs are very operatic but over all, I feel it doesn't fit.
SpinePastry 20:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opera and Epic Metal 

message: Any word of the new singer ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.74.178.114 (talk • contribs).
:Yes, it will be announced with the new single, on May 30, 2007, not before (unless it is leaked). -- ReyBrujo 02:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Singer

message: I am about to change the appearance of the discography, so please don't change it back as I'm in the middle of it. Okay? :) AkiShinji 15:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. AkiShinji 15:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't edit