Talk:IPhone/Archive 4

message: I didn't want to put this in without references, but I work for Rogers in Canada, and we are to be the sole providers of the iPhone in Canada, with a tentative November release date (only info I got was Nov/07). No pricing details have been announced. If we do a news release I'll put it in, but until then I won't--Lostcause365 18:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I gather from numerous Googling, most websites including AOL Financial  say that the release of the Apple iPod will be in Q4 2007 (most likely before the European release). Anyhow, Apple announced that it will not release a CDSM version of the iPhone, and seeing as how the only carrier that supports GSM is Rogers Communications, it is a 99.99% bet that the iPhone supplier will be Rogers (can never be too sure). CuffX 8:27, 01 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canadian Release 

message: It reads like a marketing brochure for the iPhone rather than an encyclopaedic entry. There is no criticism section, no competitor section, no background...
I have nothing against the iPhone and wish it every success. But this article has obviously been largely written by Apple employees or fans.
Come on people. You can do better than that. If you are blinded by affection, then at least try to encourage contributions from NPOV writers. Or even opponents. It would balance up the article. (Ajkgordon 15:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read through the talk page here and Archives. The iPhone hasn't even been released yet, so how can it be criticized in verifiable reliable sources? Second, no, it has not been "largely written by Apple employees or fans," as will be obvious when you read the arguments in the Archives. Finally, please remember to assume good faith. If you have proper sources you think would contribute to the article, please feel free to discuss them here. -- Kesh 05:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is plenty of criticism that can be made about a product before it is launched. Happens all the time in the motor and other industries. Feature set, design, aesthetics... to name but a few can be validly criticised prior to launch. Doing a quick Google on "iphone criticisms" throws up over a million results so there must be some of note out there. I came here looking for a decent intorduction to the iphone and how it will compare to the rest of the market. The latter is not available. You're right about the good faith thing. But, man, is it sometimes soooooo difficult. (Ajkgordon 23:05, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is where you've gone off here.  The purpose of an encyclopedia is to provide a factual (which implies NPOV) exposition of a thing or concept.  Criticism, as such, is by its very nature non-NPOV and, thus, has no place in an encyclopedia or herein. --The Outhouse Mouse 13:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to read WP:NPOV, as what you said contradicts the very notion of NPOV.  Criticism is often mandated by the NPOV policy.  --C S (Talk) 16:36, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Most of the critcism is speculative in nature, because the product is not out yet. And I'd rather not flirt with WP:CRYSTAL over it. Also, one does not need a Criticism section: let the fact speak for themselves. If you have specific points in the article that you feel are POV, please note them here, so we can make them more neutral. But, linking to various speculative criticisms doesn't strike me as neutral in and of itself. -- Kesh 23:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If the criticism is speculative, does it then follow that most of the information in the article is too because the product is not out yet? I don't have specific points that I feel are POV because I came here to get information about a product I know little about. This article is not as balanced it it should be in my POV and as such is worth less that it should be. (Ajkgordon 09:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The features released here are the one announced by Apple, and observed by the people who have had a chance to test an early prototype, and we may be quite confident they will be implemented in the final product. Any shortcomings however, especially in the software, might well be fixed before the products comes to market. It's not that Apple is not aware of them, and they have had the time between the announcement and the launch to fix them. Mahjongg 10:18, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it would be difficult and nonsensical to find criticism in the software especially around bugs and so on. I was thinking more about entries talking about its relevance in the market place, criticism about it just being a fashion accessory or gadget, technical specs such as no GPS or G3, battery life, and so on. These are valid criticisms that can be cited and included in the article. A list of similar comparable products would also be useful even though that conflicts with the purity of the message of invention that Apple are fostering. (Ajkgordon 12:15, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What a horrible article 

message: Shouldn't they be included in the specifications, actually, shouldn't they be the no. 1 specification, how much radio frequency radiation our body is subjected to, and forced to absorb, with the various health issues involved? As an encyclopaedia we should make every effort to include such information. Ultimately who cares about battery times when the phone you are using might pose a high (or higher wrt others) health risk? VERY SERIOUS OMMISION. (I tried to find information on the web about it but it seems what with all the publicity around iphone the apple people (i wonder why...) are very hush hush about it, I only found pages refering to their getting a permission of their phone being in accordance with u.s. specifications on sar (which is kind of obvious since they are going public) but nowhere did I find a specific value...) Anyone here can help?
84.254.52.96 03:39, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's here but I can't make head nor tail of it! (Ajkgordon 11:08, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and the complete FCC testing, with all documents, is located at the FCC's website. 66.41.203.91 05:40, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

text: While I agree that SAR measurements could be included in the article as part of the technical specs just like they could be on any phone, Wikipedia is not a soapboc WP:SOAPBOX. There is a separate article here  about SAR generally and the potential risks more specifically here . --AJKGordon 10:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where are the Specific absorption rate measurements for the iphone? 

message: how many edits has this article got? The special page has been disable since last year! 124.168.8.164 11:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 2,801, with 1,036 different editors contributing to this article. EVula // talk // ☯ // 16:59, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  edits 

message: After the announcement today, someone added a section just for youtube, I'm not sure that youtube deserves its own section, but there's nowhere else it fits in.  Perhaps there should be an "applications" section. Hemidemisemiquaver 19:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Done.  hmwith  talk 21:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youtube 

message: Someone might want to mention this, as it's worth noting, in the article:
The iPhone will have a different return policy than the rest of AT&T's devices. A 14-day return period rather than a 30-day period, and customers will be charged a restocking fee equal to 50% the cost of the device upon return. 
does anyone know when iPhone will be released in australia? Lillianspall 00:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Return Policy 

message: I think we should add a section aboujt iphone hype and all these websites and media buzz about the iphone --Zayani 07:47, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That does not sound terribly encyclopedic. Would it improve the quality of this article? Bassgoonist 07:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I live in the US, and I don't remember there being much hype. But, again, no one I know is really into Apple products, so maybe that's it.  hmwith  talk 23:55, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I like the sound of that. The PlayStation 3 has a whole separate article just about the launch. Bassgoonist 15:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  iphone hype section 

message: Someone replaced the picture in the summary with one from the iPhone demo video.  I think that the old picture illustrated how the device actually looks much better.  The new one just looks like a rounded rectangle.  Any other opinions? Hemidemisemiquaver 02:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: for now I reverted to the old image. Hemidemisemiquaver 02:21, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  new picture 

message: Is Sidney Bailey (the person used in several of the iPhone demos, and on the current top picture in this article) a real person? Just curious... — Epastore 03:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would guess an apple employee but it could just be a random name. I recall seeing John Appleseed as another name used, who funnily enough introduced Apples to parts of America. Coincidence? Andrewjd 23:00, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is Sidney Bailey? 

message: does anyone know what the song that's playing in the background of the calimari, safari, etc. ads?  Was it custom music like the switch ads?  Anyone have links to just the music?
It's called "Perfect Timing," by a band called Orba Squara.  I'm adding it to the article. =David(talk)(contribs) 17:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  iPhone ad song 

message: I moved:
:Gartner, an information and technology research group, has criticized the iPhone from a security standpoint, advising business and IT professionals to avoid the phone for its lack of a firewall.http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,133303-pg,1/article.html
::here from the article as it seems from this that it is from a biased source and lacks actual relevance as opposed to simply being part of a FUD campaign. WAS 4.250 06:53, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: if the iPhone runs OSX and OSX includes PF (firewall), shouldn't it follow that the iPhone does have a firewall? 71.162.255.53 18:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If the iPhone runs a version of OS X, and the version of OS X that the iPhone runs includes ipfirewall (not PF), then the iPhone would have a firewall.  If, however, the version of OS X that the iPhone runs, as opposed to the version that Macs run, doesn't include ipfirewall, then the iPhone might not have a firewall.  You'd have to ask somebody in a position to speak officially for Apple on this matter to find out whether the iPhone's version of OS X includes ipfirewall or not. Guy Harris 18:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I doubt if it matters whether the Iphone has a full firewall, as there won't be any apllications to install that need to be "firewalled". As long as each module that communicates to the outside world trough the network connection is limited to only have ports open for it's basic functions, and nothing else, and this setup cannot be changed, then the availability of a "real firewall" might be a moot point. Normally a firewall is used to be able to add "possibly unsafe" applications, applications that use the network connection and who might be corrupted, or that hat accept communication from all the ports. In those cases, a firewall is used as a "last defence", as a "goalkeeper" so that these "bad" appications cannot communicate over ports they should not communicate over. However, in a "closed system" as the Iphone, such a "last defence" might not be necessary at al, because each (unchangable) application guards its ports all by itself, acting as a "mini firewall" for itself. Mahjongg 23:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Until a vulnerability is discovered.  Cisco routers are closed systems, but vulnerabilities get  exploited in them from time to time.  Has Apple announced how software updates will work?  Anyway, it's a good thing that all iPhones come with unlimited data plans.  I just wonder how long it will take to download a 100MB OS update through EDGE... Hemidemisemiquaver 19:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from article 

message: Anyone up for a push to get iPhone into featured candidate status in time for the launch on Friday?  A quick review of the article looks ok, the two areas that seem to need work are criteria 1c (there are some unsourced statements that need to be cleaned up) and 1e (the article is still fluxing a little bit because of the upcoming release).  Before anyone nominates it, I'd appreciate some of the really gifted FAC-folks going through it with a fine-tooth comb.  Thoughts? - CHAIRBOY (☎) 03:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I think it is impossible. One of the criteria points is to have a stable article, and since the product hasn't been released yet, this is not fulfilled (especially considering that on launch day this article will be bombarded from everywhere). -- ReyBrujo 04:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What you can do, though, is make it a good article, at least to have a revision to fall back in case vandalism becomes outrageous (the article is very likely to be linked from the news section of the main page). -- ReyBrujo 04:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree with ReyBrujo.  Article is not stable and will only be more unstable over the next few weeks.  Additionally, a successful FA candidate is supposed to be thorough in coverage.  I don't believe this article fits the bill.  For example, iPod is a much better article but failed several months ago due to one perceived weakness in coverage of the iTunes "lock-in" issue.  There are already a couple issues dealing with criticism I can think with regard to this iPhone article, not to mention all the unresolved questions.  It seems to me that with articles on consumer products, especially ones that can be polarizing (as often Apple products are), reviewers expect complete coverage on all the potentially negative aspects.  --C S (Talk) 06:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I also agree with Rey, having a featured article by Friday isn't happening. However, I do think the idea of creating a good base article is a great idea, and then the article can just be watched over for the most part after the launch. This is definitely the kind of thing that will attract vandalism. --Nyeguy 03:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured Article candidate by Friday? 

message: http://www.apple.com/iphone/usingiphone/activation_small.html
This video from apple states that, Apple iPhone could work with corporate email networks.
I've marked a  tag for that criticism. Someone, please find a suitable/reliable reference, quote it and remove the tag.
Mugunth 05:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  http://www.apple.com/iphone/usingiphone/activation_small.html 

message: What does it mean the phone is exclusive to AT&T Mobility? Is it that you can only call, email, or browse the internet with their wireless network, or you have to be a subcriber to them just purchase the phone at all, which would seem ridiculous. Rodrigue 18:44, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't need to be a subscriber in advance to buy one, but buying one entails signing a 2-year contract with AT&T.  So it goes without saying that until the exclusivity contract runs out (5 years), you won't be able to use the iPhone with any other mobile service, although since the phone uses SIM cards, I wonder if some enterprising hackers might figure out how to unlock it. Hemidemisemiquaver 19:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exclusivity 

message: Currently the article contains a subsection of the "controversy" section, titled "LG PRADA controversy".  While I was rewriting it, I was having great difficulty finding sourcing.  There were two quotes which turned out be from a writer's reporting rather than statements from LG.  So I wanted to find the original statement from LG.  Well, it turns out that except for a brief mention on the Telecoms Korea website, there hasn't been any more news on this.  Sure some blogs and blog-type reporting exists, but none by mainstream media.  
LG has remained quiet, and in fact, I've not been able to find a followup story on Telecoms Korea.  It raises the suspicion that while certain groups of tech bloggers are making some noise about this, this is really not newsworthy.  The next subsection is on the Cisco thing, which is certainly just a big contrast to the Prada thing, which I don't think many people even know about.
So my question is, where is the controversy?  There was a buzz when some Apple-related, tech sources picked it up, but it seems to have died down.  In the history of iPhone coverage thus far, it seems to be only a small blip.  --C S (Talk) 15:12, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Prada vs. iPhone really a controversy? 

message: Get ready everyone, to remove that "expected or future product" tag at the top of the article at 6:00 today!!! =) 69.108.94.164 15:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove future product tag at 6:00 

message: The iPhone is activated online through iTunes.  In which section should this info go?
--IanCavilia 21:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Online Activation 

message: I just realized the article has been semiprotected for over three months. Considering the launch, I believe we should unprotect it. Sure, vandalism, but also good edits. Anyone against it? -- ReyBrujo 22:18, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: Stating that EDGE is a 2G technology is incorrect. EDGE is classified as a 2.5G/2.75G technology. The true 2G data technology is GPRS.
: Who cares? Base of EDGE is GSM which is 2G, and UMTS is 3G. So, its pretty irrelevant if we are calling boosted gsm data transfer as 2G or 2.xxG --Zache 12:18, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually EDGE is classed as 3G, because it is of high enough speed. 2.5/2.75 are commonly used, but non-defined colloquial terms. This "no 3G" thing about the iPhone is FUD, FUD with a reason (slower network speed)... but still FUD. 63.81.152.130 20:13, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Its still good to be accurate though! =) 69.108.92.112 15:35, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  EDGE is NOT 2G 

message: I don't mean to criticize the person that uploaded the current picture, but perhaps someone could upload a better one.  Two problems with the current one: 1) glare near the top of the iPhone, which also reveals a smudge 2) "slide to unlock" is partially shadowed.  --C S (Talk) 09:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  iPhone picture 

message: Should be the correct title. I am happy with the disambiguation re:Linksys, but iPhone should redirect to "Apple iPhone" which is the brand name of the device.--Cerejota 15:23, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that's accurate, Apple refers to it simply as 'iPhone'.  http://www.apple.com/iphone/ has no mention of "Apple iPhone", and I haven't been able to find an example of that phrase anywhere on Apple.com, so...  iPhone is the correct name. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 15:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia should not follow the "official" name, but what people will use.  Our responsibility is to our readership not Apple.  People often do prefix products that way, e.g. Toyota Camry not Camry.  This "rule" has not been enforced for many Apple related articles such as iPod and Macintosh, since consensus is many people do not use the prefix "Apple".  The latter article used to be at Apple Macintosh in fact.  The reason I put "rule" in quotes, is that it is not one (although some have insisted before it is).  To bring up an example I brought up before in a different context, F-16 is not titled Lockheed Martin F-16; strangely, F-16 redirects to F-16 Fighting Falcon which is a mistake, like redirecting Bill Clinton to William Jefferson Clinton.  The Walkman article is not titled Sony Walkman, etc.  Jet fighters and electronic consumer products seem to share a similarity in that people often do not use the manufacturer name, while with cars people often do.  So I don't believe it's necessary to move the article to Apple iPhone (as I once did). --C S (Talk) 22:58, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. By the way, I just unprotected Apple iPhone, been protected for six months or so. So, watch that page as well, just in case someone begins an article there. -- ReyBrujo 23:20, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apple iPhone 

message: Why is there no mention of the fact that the iPhone cannot send MMS (multimedia messages)? I think the majority of people would be surprised to discover this as most if not all new phones have this capability and it is an important criticism of the phone. See this link for more info http://www.cnet.com.au/mobilephones/pdaphones/0,239036203,339279031,00.htm Danielcohen 04:14, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the Criticisms section does mention this. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 04:16, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of MMS 

message: The section on Applications says "At the WWDC 2007 Conference on June 11, 2007 Apple, Inc. announced that the iPhone will support third party applications via the Safari web browser."  It's true that Apple said that, but I'd call it marketing spin.  It would be more accurate, IMHO, to say that the iPhone does not support third party applications, but one can make a web site that behaves in some respects like an application and runs in Safari.--Jwwalker 22:57, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third-Party Apps 

message: Is the table containing the rate plans of the iPhone really necessary? Seems more like advertisement than encyclopedic. Amazingracer 16:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed. Wow this article will need to be completely reworked when the hype dies here. Amazingracer 23:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rate Plans 

message: This article should be updated to remove the reference to Microsoft Exchange.  The article implies that the iPhone can connect to Microsoft Exchange as well as using IMAP4 and POP3.  In fact, the only ways the iPhone can currently connect to Microsoft Exchange is though IMAP4 and POP3.  The way the article is phrased, it give the impression that the iPhone can connect to Exchange servers the way most smartphones can (though Exchange ActiveSync).  This is not the case and gives the false impression that this device can natively exchange messaging, calendaring and contacts data with Microsoft Exchange.
:Well it gives that impression because it does use ActiveSync. See here. Also sign your comments! Amazingracer 17:56, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well according to that article its supposed to support Actice Sync, but I just hand my hands one and it clearly stated it must have IMAP support in the setting menu. I do not know if there is a difference though. This may need some more digging. Amazingracer 19:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Microsoft Exchange and the iPhone 

message: It may be time for another archive of the talk page, as it is getting pretty long, and hardly any of these discussions even deal with the article. I do not know how to archive a talk page, so maybe some one with a little know-how could perform the task? Cheers. Amazingracer 18:29, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did do some archiving yesterday, but obviously it wasn't enough.  One thing that could be done is to set up some auto-archiving.  I've used MiszaBot I in the past with good results. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:34, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: AutoArchiving maybe a bit confusing to some users. A manual archive would probably be the way to go, but not usre how that works. Some of the threads from the top could probably definitely go. Amazingracer 20:50, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time for an archive? 

message: Like in the PS3 article criticism is being treated as vandalism. Have some respect, please, this is an encyclopedia not an advertising website. Apple should have some respect and leave this encyclopedic article alone.66.201.169.49
:As mentioned elsewhere in this talk page, the criticism section was more thoroughly incorporated into the article, which helps preserve a neutral point of view. EVula // talk // ☯ // 20:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just wanted to add that criticism from reliable sources is, of course, welcome.  First-hand criticism isn't appropriate for inclusion, though.  Friday (talk) 20:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Read four sections up in the Controversy discussion. The criticism for the iPhone has been integrated into the rest of the article. As an example, the battery is the first paragraph of the Other section. The lack of a criticism section does not mean that no criticism is included. It just means that this article is better written than the ones that includes the criticism section. Well, at least in regards to how it handles criticisms. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  As always criticism is being erased 

message: Reports from various sources say that the IPhone is being disassembled for various reasons, from wanting to find out whats on it to finding ways to hack it. Would a section on this be appropriate? Bladesofhalo 20:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Blades, I was just reading this on Yahoo! Maybe in Reception. I have some great sources on this info if you would like, such as this.  hmwith  talk 20:28, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taken Apart 

message: According to this article:
http://sikod.com/blog/2007/07/02/iphone-launch-mania/
The Ipod Nano2G reportedly has a similar processor; namely the S5L8701.
82.74.225.106 21:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Processor is Samsung S5L8900 

message: There is an excess of release day photos, which seems a symptom of over-exuberance.  I will remove two of them, although I don't think we even need one.  People should keep in mind that this is meant to be an encyclopedia article, and we need to keep proper perspective.  Having these photos, with captions explaining how buyers are applauded, may seem relevant and important now, but a year down the line, it will appear dated and fanboy-ish.  --C S (Talk) 04:14, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Better having free images of people queuing than fair use images of the same phone time and again. However, I am not against removing them. -- ReyBrujo 04:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: You left the crappy New York one up but took my San Diego one down? My photo was on iReport on CNN!! http://www.pbase.com/ahuse/image/81387564  Now I'm all verklempt! 1DmkIIN 06:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Andrew.  I believe you're being humorous here, but just in case you are truly overwrought with emotion, let me be serious.  It's great when a professional photographer takes the time to upload an image to Wikipedia, and I commend you for it.  Unfortunately, I'm hard-pressed to see why a photo of a couple iPhone buyers leaving an Apple Store is appropriate for the article.  I can see why it might provide a nice "human-interest" angle to a news story, but that is different.  --C S (Talk) 16:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: lol dont worry about it. I could care less. 1DmkIIN 18:27, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many iPhone release day photos 

message: There seems to be a little bit of a contradiction in two sections of the article:From section "Pricing and Availability": The iPhone may be purchased with a two-year service plan with AT&T[30] or pre-paid month to month at a slightly higher rate.From section "Dispute", subsection "Release": iPhone is only available for those who subscribe to a two-year AT&T service plan[26] unless they have poor credit, in which case they can use a pre-paid plan.So which one is it?  Is there an option that can be made freely, as the first sentence indicates, or is it only made available if one meets certain prerequisites (poor credit, which would need to be expanded upon, imho)?  Redux 20:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Service availability: which one is it? 

message: Should another page be created for information pertaining to developing web applications for the iPhone? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Michaelspivey (talk • contribs).
:I don't think that is worthy of an article at this time. -- ReyBrujo 04:11, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about iPhone Developers? 

message: I can't add it myself, because I'm a new user, but how about adding technical specifications to this entry.  I have confirmed iPhone technical specifications on my site, and you're welcome to stick them in the wikipedia entry.  See http://www.iphonedope.com/index.php/Tech_specs
Skitchthg 17:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  technical specifications 

message: I see the discussion above about having a critism section or a controversy section, but what about a technical problems section such as the article for Xbox 360 has.  Things such as  could be included. Fineric 20:23, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would wait. The Xbox 360 harware atricle exists because it gained a reputation for high hadware failure rates with some saying it may be 33.33% (1 out of 3). As far as I know the iphone does not have this type of raputation yet. It should also be noted that none of the other video game consoles have this type of article either showing that a sepearte article for problems is the exception not the norm. As it stands now I think intergration into the article is the better choice. --69.156.204.164 06:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  technical issues 

message: The headphones included contain a microphone on the cord.  They also contain a button that serves many purposes while using the phone's different modes.  It should be pointed out the headphones included are different than the ones that are included with an iPod.
Bombadier337 01:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out, can't believe that slipped through the crack. Amazingracer 15:49, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change headphone information under package contents. 

message: Since so many people have the iPhone, wouldn't it be better to have a current photo of the iPhone (with the AT&T Service name rather than the Cingular service name)?
--GrayApple 23:17, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replace MacWorld images? 

message: Why this article doesn't have a controversy section? There is a lot of controversy revolving iPhone: usage of single service, inferior battery management, load of publicity for apple, inferior memory space etc. A simple google search is enough!
--18jahremädchen 11:11, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's all in Missing common handheld features. =)  hmwith  talk 13:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to clarify, the missing common handheld features is not the only place that controversies and criticisms are stored in the article.  This article was unbalanced in the manner it presented the positive and the negative aspects of the iPhone.  Prior to my integration the criticisms for the iPhone was buried down at the bottom of the article after a significant percentage of the article. The criticisms also largely mirrored the format of the features section so it was redundant to have two sections that covered the same thing when the features section could be used to cover both.  There's a couple of edits by Gomm mixed in as well, but here is where I integrated the criticisms into the features section: . Additionally, here is where I moved the "Controversy" section into the history section: . As you can see, there wasn't any information lost, it was just integrated into the article itself. --Bobblehead (rants) 13:24, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't looked at the diffs, but I do think the current version does an excellent job of being neutral; the features are being mentioned alongside the complaints. Good job. EVula // talk // ☯ // 19:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bobblehead, you did a great job of integrating the section into the article. It took me a second to realize it, however. Upon initially glancing at the page, I felt like it had been removed (besides the missing features), since that's a common thing that happens in many articles. Sorry about that, and thanks for the great job!  hmwith  talk 20:27, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my exact thought. Most of the articles have a "controversy" section in the bottom. But as I read more of it, it is not so bad :). Good job!--18jahremädchen 00:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just part of my campaign to end Wikipedia's reliance on controversy/criticism sections to convey "negative" aspects of an article's topic. --Bobblehead (rants) 01:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy 

message: Changed "No stylus is needed, nor can an ordinary one be used, as the touch screen is sensitive to heat emitted by skin," to "Because the screen is a capacitive touch screen, no stylus is needed, nor can one be used," and added cite to How Stuff Works iPhone article. I could find nothing in the original Pogue article citation to support the statement that the screen was heat sensitive. Woodega 01:52, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No heat is needed, just an electrically conductive object, (which is electrically connected to the metal outer shell of the IPhone) touching the screen. Note that the claim that an IPhone cannot be operated with gloves is only valid when the gloves are perfect electrical insulators. Gloves that are made conductive should work. Mahjongg 16:58, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No electrical connection between the toucher and metal exterior is needed. My iPhone is clad in one of the rubber InCase thingers, so there's no connection between my hand and the phone's exterior, but it still works fine. – ɜɿøɾɪɹℲ ( тɐʟк • ¢ʘи†ʀ¡βs ) 18:13, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether or not a direct electrical conductive pathway is needed between the "finger" and the body of the device depends on the technology of the capacitive touch screen technology used. generally speaking the technology detects a capacitor created between the conductive foil behind the glass of the touch screen and the finger placed on the glass. Through this capacitor a small amount of high frequency current can flow from the foil outward. The capacitance  that is created by the finger|glass|metal foil is very small, so a high frequency signal is normally needed to detect it. The electric current flowing through this capacitor can either flow back to the device through the body and the other hand which is holding the device, either through a direct conductive path, or through a capacitive connection made by the other hand and the body of the device (which capacitance will be comparable to the capacitance of the finger|glass|metal foil capacitor), or the electrical energy can radiate out, where the body of the person is acting as an antenna. In either case the current flowing through these finger capacitor(s) can be detected, and used to detect where the finger(s) is/are touching the screen, but -only- if the "finger" is electrically conductive and presents a relatively large area that can act as the "capacitor plate". Hence touching the screen with an electrically conductive stylus does not work, because the created surface area is too small to create a detectable capacitor. A glove made out of an electrically conductive material -will- however create a capacitor that will be detectable. Mahjongg 19:01, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixed "heat sensitive" touch screen statement 

message: Is there not a single Wikipedian with an iPhone and a camera who is willing to take a better photo of the device than the ones from MacWorld Expo? — Epastore 18:43, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Wikipedian photos? 

message: Apple Computer has a five year agreement with AT&T, until then, they will be the sole cellular provider in the United States. Jaimysessanna 16:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I still haven't seen this officially announced or documented anywhere, so a citation would be great. – ɜɿøɾɪɹℲ ( тɐʟк • ¢ʘи†ʀ¡βs ) 18:14, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  iPhone and AT&T Contract 

message: Why is there a "See Also" link to the Neo1973?  The way it is posted seems like an advertisement.  I suggest it be deleted on the grounds that
* It is not mentioned in the article, unlike the LG PRADA
* There is already a link to "List of Smartphones"
* If we let it stay, it would only be fair to add the other 100+ smartphones to the "See Also" section.
I am now deleting it, but suspect it will pop up again, and think if it does, there should be discussion.
71.213.13.173 04:03, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neo1973 

message: Can someone please check to see if it's possible to send and recieve files (music, videos etc) using bluetooth? 90.224.152.178/HSB 2007-06-29
:I quickly skimmed thru the official iphone manual and it says nothing about using bluetooth to transfer files to or from other bluetooth enabled devices. Am I the only you who thinks this is a _major_ drawback?
yes this would be a massive disadvantage for the consumer. However, i think that apple have purposefully not included this, as otherwise people would be sharing music and videos which would then sap money from itunes. I think this should be mentioned in the article. 86.128.227.189 11:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Send/recieve music or files over bluetooth? 

message: Okay, I just got an iPhone. (yay) Want me to take some pics of it and replace the main image with them?-Samnuva 04:11, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But if you had, your question would have been directly under a plea for wikipedians photos of the iPhone. I would also add that for the people who regularly visit talk pages they go straight to the bottom - as I do. Andrewjd 19:30, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

text: If you do take pictures of your iPhone, be sure to upload them to Commons, and add them to Category:IPhone so that they can be used across all the Wikipedia editions. EVula // talk // ☯ // 14:16, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Picture 

message: The caption under the editorial cartoon near the bottom of the article says "citation needed." The cartoon appears to be from Brian Duffy, who is the editorial cartoonist at the Des Moines Register: http://data.dmregister.com/duffy/details.php?id=2007-07-01
Dr. T. 14:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation for cartoon 

message: Since iPhone does not stream .pls MP3, why is Jossi reverting the posts with this clarification?  Stick with the facts!
Libertyforall1776 18:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What iTunes can do versus what the iPhone can do is a horrible comparison, as is calling iTunes the iPhones' big brother. Comparisons between the iPod and the iPhone are more accurate, and the iPod cannot do that either. EVula // talk // ☯ // 19:03, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  iPhone does not stream .pls MP3 

message: Should this article mention the cascade of news articles now talking about an iPhone nano? 132.205.44.5 21:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  iPhone Nano 

message: http://telephonyonline.com/wireless/news/iphone_activation_synchronoss_070907/
this would seem to the appropriate article to mention "Synchronoss Technologies, the company responsible for coordinating the activation of those phones between the iTunes interface and AT&T’s back office system"
Mathiastck 23:59, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synchronoss 

message: In the article, under Other Platform Support, it says:
It is also worth noting that the iPhone is not compatible with any 64 bit version of Windows such as Windows XP x64 or any 64 bit edition of Windows Vista
I don't think that's a correct way of saying such a thing. Isn't it more decent to say something like:
Although Windows is a supported platform, the Apple didn't build in support for the 64-bit versions of Windows, like Windows XP x64 or any 64-bit edition of Windows Vista.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Benedykt (talk • contribs).
:Honestly, I don't see how this is worth noting at all. EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:52, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other platform support 

message: *"[LG later claimed that Apple stole both the ideas and concept of the Prada phone.]  However, the iPhone had been in development for almost five years and AT&T was contacted three years before."
Three things wrong with this statement - not including a lack of  references - which really says nothing but just adds more text to an already über-verbose article:
:1. It doesn't say how long the LG phone was in development, which is kinda relevant to the point, folks;
:2. It doesn't prove - or even suggest - the iPhone's design was finalised before the LG's.  Apple could conceivably have had many previous designs then decided to change it when they found out about the LG;
:3. So AT&T were contacted three years before.  And?  About what?  Approving the design?  A nothing statement presented as partial evidence to discount a public claim from LG.  Weasel words.
Fact is, we don't know, so why is there an "however" which attempts to undermine LGs overt claim?  It isn't commentary, it's opinion and justifies the regular attacks on this article and many of its contributors - I'd delete it but I know it will be restored in 15 seconds and I'll get called a vandal. -- Delsource (talk) 13:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  LG Prada/iPhone 

message: Just a suggestion that the Australian release date is changed from 2008 to 2009 or 2008/2009, the recent news items in this country appearing due to the impending release in the US have revelase no Australian providers haven't even talked to Apple (It will probably be Telstra in the end though) and all the articles mentioned a pre 2009 release was unlikely.
I can't find a link at the moment to use as a source but other Aussies should be able to confirm this.
:Update: Channel 9 News has just claimed it will be released in 6 months, around January... Not a direct comment from Apple though, perhaps leaving it at 2008 is best. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NeoRicen (talk • contribs).
:There has been a lot of speculation Vodafone may due a deal which will cover many of their subsidiaries. Nil Einne 20:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Australian Release Date 

message: I counted 10 instances of the word However. This is not an editorial, or an op-ed.  ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Quite.  But don't dare delete them.... 86.17.211.191 11:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  However 

message: Wouldn't it be nice if the donator of the current Public domain iPhone picture took another picture of the IPhone displaying not the wiki page, but the current iPhone Wikipedia page with his own picture of the iPhone in it, effectively creating the droste effect, and also making the wikipedia user instantly sure of what the IPhone was displaying. At the moment, the picture is clearly displaying a wikipedia page, but it is a bit bland, and not instantly recognizable. Creating a new version with the iPhone displaying the same website page the user is looking at would be very nice! P.S the effect would not be completely recursive, but that would not matter too much. Mahjongg 22:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the picture you see today. I'll upload a new one as you suggest later...possibly showing the phone screen or Wikipedia as you suggest. FIshstick 01:15, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally think it's a bad idea to show any wikipedia page in screenshots, at least if the logo is visible. It's common practice but it unnecessarily complicates the copyright situation. The phone screen would IMHO be a better idea Nil Einne 22:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I took, uploaded, and added the new picture in the infobox today, and can take additional ones in a similar setup if needed. – ɜɿøɾɪɹℲ ( тɐʟк • ¢ʘи†ʀ¡βs ) 03:24, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a small suggestion - it would look better if it was cropped to remove the big black spaces. Also I think that the home screen (ie with icons) looks better as the infobox image than the phone running Safari. AndrewJDTALK -- 11:46, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Droste effect]] picture 

message: I wanted to add something along the following lines but am struggling, would appreciate if someone could do the honours
"Reports that a uk service provider has been chosen have been seen on numerous websites, including (http://uk.gizmodo.com/2007/07/06/o2_wins_iphone_uk_contract.html)
It has been said that Telefonica's O2 has won the deal, these reports are, however, unconfirmed as of 16th July 2007
Danfoster20 18:15, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uk release network 

message: There are quite a lot of iPhone applications (websites really). There's a list over at http://wwww.iphonetweaks.net/applications/applications.php. Maybe this should be mentioned in the article? 18:33, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dead link. -Atamasama 18:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  iPhone applications 

message: Rumors are included in the text and referenced as fact. Example, under 'Web connectivity', a referene is made to FINEEDGE. This is nothing but a rumor, but has been presented as, I quote, "This is probably due to the new "Fine EDGE" upgrades AT&T has been making to their network prior to the launch." should have started at the very least as "It has been rumored that ...", after all a mac rumor site has been referenced. Then I also want to bring up the danger, and ethic consequences of including rumors as this can mislead readers. What I really would like to see is a comparison between technologies, including theorethical and actually achieved numbers. Jdesmet 06:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clearly indicate what is rumor 

message: I know Wikipedia is being used for advertising, but this is ridiculous. 83.77.220.39 12:06, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Contrary to plain external links, the more references the better. -- ReyBrujo 15:27, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cut down on the reference links 

message: I saw in the article it says Vista Basic isn't supported. Does anyone know why? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.24.114.27 (talk • contribs).
:I can't find any evidence of this on the internet, so I'll remove that sentence barring a good reference. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 16:46, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vista Basic 

message: This page needs to be archived due to its length, making some text obsolete and hard to navigate.
Since I do not know how yet to archive, can another user do this immediately.
T saston 16:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just set up auto-archiving, it'll get archived shortly when MiszaBot1 runs again. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 16:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The archivebot is actively archiving here, and is configured to move conversations that haven't been active for two weeks out. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 01:27, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archiving 

message: Wow ... i dont think i have ever read a better advertisement than this wikipedia article...you know this is an encyclopedia folks..not a catologue. Zendainc 17:47, 23 July 2007 (EST)
:Please see this discussion in the archives. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism 

message: I've seen brief mentions that the iPhone can automatically download and install it's own patches but haven't found a reliable source. If true, I think that would be worthwhile to mention, particularly on the section entitled 'Exploits'. Anyone have any direct info on this? Ronnotel 20:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Automatic patching? 

message: I didn't post this directly to the article because it is missing a criticisms or problems section and any attempt to add one has been repeatedly shot down by supporters of the Iphone. Reports have been surfacing of people unhappy with Iphone screens with serial numbers starting with "7" which can be determined by entering the phone into "Field Mode" (which is accessed by typing: *3001#12345#*). Users have begun complaining on the Apple forums and elsewhere. I don't own an Iphone nor will I because its not my thing but I've watched this article and thought this might be a necessary add. Here are sources to back this up:
http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/4675
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1043463&tstart=0
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=328862
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027978&intsrc=hm_list
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=711
Oh and uhh....*puts on extra flame retardant suit*...flame away :)
--Wootonius 16:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And also shot down by people who think that criticisms shouldn't be bundled into a "criticisms" section, but should be integrated with the article.  See, for example, Talk:IPhone/Archive 4#Controversy.  (I'm not arguing for, or against, that idea.  I'm just noting that there are those who aren't opposed to criticisms of the item discussed by an article, but think it's better to have them throughout the article rather than in a special section, and that not all people opposed to a criticism section are "supporters of the Iphone".) Guy Harris 20:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (EC)Well, most of those aren't reliable sources, but the Computerworld one definitely is. So I don't see why a sentence about the screen issue couldn't be included in article... --Bobblehead (rants) 20:13, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems with the Iphone reported 

message: That was a rumor, (at least for now) and there was also a rumored iPhone shuffle. Which defeats the purpose, because one of the iPhone's main features is the touch screen, and an iPhone shuffle would have no screen..
:Sounds less like a rumor and more like a joke.--211.28.215.112 16:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No nano 

message: I noticed that the information regarding the two vulnerabilities I found (added, by the way, by someone else) has since been removed - is there any reason for this? There's still a number of people who appear to be posting traces of their Yahoo connections, apparently with live account details. I honestly think this is important information that should be noted, and I'm mildly concerned that someone has removed it believing that either it's not true (it is, feel free to verify) or through a misplaced sense of duty toward Apple or Yahoo. Details can be found at http://blog.dave.cridland.net/ 217.155.137.61 20:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally verified David's claims.  I've also gotten independent verification from Apple that this is a known bug.  AFAIK, Apple has has yet to publish a vulnerability statement.  Regardless, the attack is obvious and should be noted in the article. Kdz 17:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read WP:RS and WP:OR. As soon as you find a reliable source, then the vulnerability can be added to the article. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can only find a reliable source according to those rules by having someone else publish it and, it seems, not actually reference me as the source. Curious. Anyone can verify this quite easily. Speaking of reliable sources, you have no reliable source for stating that Yahoo offers Push-IMAP, at least in the sense to which you've linked it. That's in part because Yahoo's IMAP service does not use P-IMAP, nor has either Apple or Yahoo ever claimed it does.217.155.137.61 22:42, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: As discussed in http://www.pdastreet.com/articles/2007/7/2007-7-27-First-iPhone-Vulnerability.html (see 3rd to last paragraph), Independent Security Evaluators (ISE) has independently discovered the XYMPKI vulnerability.  With this, there are now three sources, two of which are clearly independent (ISE and Dave/Isode).  Kdz 02:33, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  XYMPKI/Yahoo provisioning vulnerability 

message: what is the source for the september07 release date for south africa Nicoli nicolivich 14:17, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  south africa 

message: : iPhone runs Mac OS X v10.5, in case you'd like to post that —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.220.81 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, what it runs identifies itself as just "OS X", not "Mac OS X", and the version number is 1.x.  Much of the code might be Leopard-vintage, but it doesn't run all of Leopard (it all has to fit in 4GB and leave room for your music, etc.).  Guy Harris 20:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mac OS X v10.5 

message: Should the article say something about the fact that a Hello World program can be run on the iPhone?  just wondering...
http://popsci.typepad.com/popsci/2007/07/iphack-becomes-.html
Ben.yarmis 23:34, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I think that this is notable, along with the terminal application that was just released, for the simple reason that Apple/ATT do not want third party applications.  It seems likely that they will release a software update to break these eventually, but the first third party application on the iPhone certainly warrants a mention.  Pity that being a blog it's not a very good source.-Hemidemisemiquaver 03:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's a Los angeles times article taht mentions the hello world app, but not the terminal.  -Hemidemisemiquaver 03:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added the info in the Applications section, sourced to the LA times article.  I couldn't find any news stories about the terminal emulator, but since the code and process are GPL licensed and hosted on Google Code, I cited the project site.  AFter all, you can't get much closer to a primary source than source code.  IMO the terminal is more notable than hello world, since it's the first native app that has an icon on the home screen and actually can do something useful.-Hemidemisemiquaver 03:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third party apps 

message: Shouldn't we start listing some iphone wifi hotspots directories? I did a google search there are a few listings that appear when you type in "iphone wifi hotspots" (without the quotes)
Daabomb
:1) there is, as far as I know, no such thing as an "iPhone Wi-Fi hotspot" - there are just Wi-Fi hotspots, which devices supporting 802.11, including but not limited to, the iPhone, can use, so that's not something that belongs on the iPhone page.
:2) Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files, so it's not clear the link would even belong on the Wi-Fi page;
:so I think the answer to the question is "no". Guy Harris 22:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iphone Wifi Hotspots 

message: Some people might wonder why I have stated in the touch screen section that the IPhone can be used with gloves, but that special "electrically conductive" gloves must be used to operate the IPhone. The fact is that really the only reason that the IPhone cannot be operated with gloves on (if you ignore that wearing normal gloves will make your fingers thicker) is the fact that they are normally made from an electrically insulating material, and this prevents the capacitive touch screen from detecting an electrically conductive object, namely your finger, placed on the touch screen. However, when the glove -does- conduct electricity, there is really no reason why the touch screen would not work. I do not doubt that, looking at the many accessories there are now for the IPod, if there really is a need for gloves with which you can still use the IPhone some entrepreneur will create them. Mahjongg 13:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Electrically conductive gloves 

message: There are two products with the name iPhone - one is released by Linksys, and the other by Apple.  The entry for the former is under "Linksys iPhone" while the Apple one is simply under "iPhone".  Perhaps for the sake of consistency, this entry should be called "Apple iPhone", with "iPhone" being a disambiguation page.
Djedi 01:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the history of this talk page. This subject has been discussed to death in the early stages, and the current situation is the result. Mahjongg 23:06, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Trust me Djedi, this isn't an argument you want to get involved in because you WILL lose.  Different rules apply for Apple articles, you'll soon learn.  This page may read like the longest advertisment in Wiki history but only pages like Sony's Vaio get tagged with "this article reads like an advert". A while back a user was insisting that this page must NOT refer to the LG Prada under any circumstances whatsoever, then a day later insisted that the LG Prada article MUST refer and link to the Apple phone.  Welcome to iWikipedia (formerly O'Wikipedia - where even Eddie Murphy is Irish!). 86.17.211.191 00:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Entry title 

message: Can someone put the story on the kid unlocking the iPhone under the controversy section. I would, but I am not a techie. Story is here. Miranda 22:12, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unlocking the iPhone 

message: Added some about the kid who broke the link between apple and AT&T. He probably deserves his own page....someone else can do that though.. :) 
Snotrockets13 23:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  George Hotz 

message: There is only a minor mention of the original iPhone activation process. The original 2.5G has a revolutionary activation process that allowed users to buy the phone cold and then activate it from the comfort of their homes via itunes. This preventing having to wait in the store to activate and also made acquiring the device and "gifting" is significantly simpler for the purchaser and receiver. Apple also had AT&T create new "small/medium/larger" voice and data plans nationally for the device to simplify activation via itunes.  I would like to add this information to the article. Pat.doran  —Preceding undated comment added 17:00, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You'll have to provide a source to back it up first.  fetchcomms☛ 18:44, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Would like to add information around the Activation process of first generation iphone