Talk:Scarborough Fair (ballad)

message: The notes in the picture is not the scores to Scarborough Fair!
:You're right; it's incorrect. I've deleted it. See the "Media" section for the correct tune. Softlavender (talk) 21:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong notes!

message: added the Simon and Garfunkel arrangment; its a little messed up though, I'd parreciate it if someone could fix it
:I removed this section. Do not submit copyrighted material without explicit permission. Joestynes 08:56, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition 

message: Anyone have a source for the information on the rift between Simon and Carthy, and its ending in 2000?  Thanks.  --Allen 00:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Try Paul Castle's interview with Carthy. Bluewave 09:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simon and Carthy source? 

message: Note, that Child includes some variants of The Elfin Knight which essentially are Scarborough Fair versions. Like with St. Stephen and Herod, the fact that the ballad continues to be known and sung doesn't in itself disqualify it from the 'popular ballads'.--JoergenB 18:15, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no one commented or protested this, I guess no one disagrees with me merging the articles Scarborough Fair and The Elfin Knight(?). JoergenB 19:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: What happened about merging these articles? Johtso (talk) 00:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why separate articles? 

message: The passage with the list that itemizes what the herbs symbolize is random and unexplained.  At the very least there should be a link to a page that explains these seemingly arbitrary assignments.  Otherwise this interpretation should be removed. Atw13 06:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this was taken from the "The morden herbalist" article to which there is a reference. However, this rather light-touch article in its turn doesn't give better references than just that this was information found on the net. JoergenB 03:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to that link, parsley and thyme have their meanings as the reverse of what they are here.  If no one can clean up that section of the article (at least add the in-context citation and briefly explain the rationale, if not find something with a citation that predates the web) I would like to remove it.Atw13 05:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Or just replace it by a handful of words and a link: For an attempt to explain the burden, see...? JoergenB 19:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: If it's incorrect, please clean it up or remove it. Softlavender (talk) 21:30, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Parsley: I'm yours" et al. 

message: Why is there a Sarah Brightman discography box at the bottom of the page? This is to me completely out of place. Joeykelly (talk) 02:44, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right; I've removed it. Softlavender (talk) 10:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sarah Brightman

message: If we're going to have lyrics at all here -- and assuming the article is a serious investigation of this old song itself, rather than an S&G puff piece -- we should see other versions, some radically different, e.g.: 
: If you're going to the very next town,
: When it's marrying time,
: Ask a pretty girl in the very next town, 
: If she'll be a true love of mine. 
— Xiong熊talk* 12:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This doesn't seem to really fit the tune, and also misses the refrain... Orphan Wiki 17:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other lyrics 

message: The image :Image:ParsleySage.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --05:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:ParsleySage.jpg

message: About "parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme", I've always assumed that it was the singer remembering how the Fair smelled.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.203.4.38 (talk) 21:49, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: "parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme"

message: Somewhere back in October, someone deleted a cited connection between this ballad and The Elfin Knight (see this diff). As this deletion was completely unexplained, I have restored that material. - JRBrown (talk) 00:21, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restoring material on source of ballad 

message: The "other artists" section is a mess.  First, it's so long and rambling that a lot of utter trivia has made its way into it.  Aside from that, if that many people have recorded the song, is there really a point to listing them?  It's like a list of actors who have played Hamlet, or a list of books about George Washington. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 02:57, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other artists 

message: Originally played in 3/4 time. Simon and Garfunkel's rendition makes it a little difficult to obtain because of the over-lapping time signatures which starts with 3/4 then shifts between 12/8 and 9/8 and ends back in 3/4. The bass is playing 8th notes when it comes in earlier in the song.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.77.173.100 (talk) 17:49, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time Signatures 

message: Is it? Orphan Wiki 21:58, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable enough entry? 

message: In the original version of the melody, what is the correct rhythm of the word "parsley"?? It is 2+1 or R+1+1 (where R means rest)?? Georgia guy (talk) 17:14, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rhythm problem 

message: I propose we delete the (s) and (her) from the text of the lyric, for three reasons:
# I *believe* that the editing guidelines discourage "(s)he" and "him (her)" in general
# In a rhythmic medium (such as poetry or song) they're really inappropriate, since they destroy the meter
# A conversion to politically correct "them/they" is inappropriate, since no living record of the lyric actually sung that way exists.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riventree (talk • contribs) 00:27, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Historically, the first few verses (about the making of the shirt) are a man speaking to (or about) a woman, whereas the later verses are her response to him. Modern versions tend to loose the plot and have the entire song from the man's point of view. Perhaps the best choice would be to choose a version from a specific cited source, and match their formatting. - JRBrown (talk) 16:43, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronoun PC-ness 

message: Is there any good reason why Justin Hayward and Sarah Brightman should have their own sub-sections?  Or why the Brightman version needs an infobox?  There's nothing more significant about their versions over dozens of others.   I'll be bold and relegate them to the status of "other artists", on the grounds of due weight.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:37, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the whole stupid thing. --jpgordon::==( o ) 16:27, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Other artists" (again) 

message: Aren't the lyrics given here from the Simon and Garfunkel song? According to the article, the lyrics in parentheses are not traditional but were composed in the 1960s. It would seem more interesting (and more legal) to give the traditional lyrics, perhaps in more than one variation, and remove the added text. 68.92.156.117 (talk) 20:39, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Traditional vs. Simon and Garfunkel lyrics 

message: In the Commercial Versions section it reads:
"It is likely that both Coppard and Collins learned it from MacColl, who claimed to have collected it "in part" from a Scottish miner. However, according to Alan Lomax, MacColl's source was probably Cecil Sharp's One Hundred English Folk Songs, published in 1916."
There are all sorts of problems with this sentence.
There are several assertions and attributions that are not supported by the citations. 
Alan Lomax is not mentioned at all. Cecil Sharp's "One hundred English folk songs" does not use the same words or (significantly) the same tune as MacColl.
The "who claimed to have collected it" is tendentious (ie POV) when used in a sentence in that way since it implies no further information was given. However, according to the cited page, MacColl's "claim" was not for a "Scottish miner", but specifically names his source as "Mark Anderson, retired lead miner of Middleton-in Teasdale, Yorkshire".
This needs to be sorted out.  Ecadre (talk) 22:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed.  I added the mention of Lomax in these edits back in 2011, but - rather embarrassingly - it's not clear to me now where I got the mention of Lomax from.  The source I used at that time was, I think, this (the url has since changed), and there is much more information that can be used at the related page here.  Much of the history of the song is based on claims and uncertainty, and so long as we reflect the language used in reliable sources there is no problem in expressing that uncertainty in this article.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:45, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ewan MacColl 

message: I consider the CD version of Joel Frederiksen's Phoenix Ensemble absolutely worth adding to that section... What exactly are the criteria for a recording to be mentioned in such a kind of listing?
--79.210.126.89 (talk) 18:59, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other recordings 

message: But what is it about? Its not a love song, the singer clearly does not want his old lover back, as he sets a series of impossible tasks, and she equally does not want him back. Why ask someone to remember you to an old friend and set them impossible tasks, to tease them, to embarrass them? Its not a nice thing to do? It could be a "joke", like asking someone to buy a tin of tartan paint or a bubble for a spirit level, but the impossible tasks themselves are not inherently humorous? I know nothing about herbs, but I was interested that there maybe a sub plot, an affair, an abortion, something darker between the two former lovers that mean they have fallen out and maybe don't actually like each other...?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Botus Flemming (talk • contribs) 15:34, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of the ballad? 

message: A lot of the sources cited for the song's history fail WP:SPS and WP:UGC. These need to be replaced by reliable works from reputable publishers, per WP:V, WP:RS and WP:NOR, especially since much of it is analysis/evaluation/interpretation/synthesis, e.g suppositions about who learned the song from whom, and via what means.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  21:03, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Insufficient sourcing 

message: The lyrics of Scarborough Fair as given in this article should read 'sea strand' rather than 'sea sand'. I don't have the knowledge to edit the piece. Perhaps someone else could do it. 
Dantes Warden (talk) 09:04, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sea sand 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Scarborough Fair (ballad). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.originals.be/en/originals.php?id=5353
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://hummingadifferenttune.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html
*Added archive https://archive.is/20121230094204/http://www.scarborough-fair.de.vu/scarborough_eng.htm to http://www.scarborough-fair.de.vu/scarborough_eng.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:03, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've removed all claims of recorded versions of this song that did not have a claimed supporting reference. Please only reinstate those that have citations. Weeb Dingle (talk) 19:56, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I've taken another pass, removing those that cited only YouTube videos, as well as those of musical acts not notable enough to have a Wikipedia article. Weeb Dingle (talk) 20:03, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  the "other versions" list 

message: because I miss it in the List: the Version of the Mediæval Bæbes is not this Ballad? or aren't they famous enough to be listed? -- 62.216.207.150 (talk) 14:44, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mediæval Bæbes 

message: How do you know it's "savoury sage, rosemary, and thyme," and not "savory, sage, rosemary, and thyme"? That is, the noun (an herb like the rest), instead of the adjective.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.67.66.223 (talk) 20:01, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lyrics 

message: Should the second stanza be included? Backreading this it seems like it used to be, but I can't find mention of why it isn't included anymore. It's the lyrics about her reply to him and the impossible tasks she sets, such as 'Tell him to plow me an acre of land// Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme,// between/betwix the sea-shore and the sea sand/strand// Then he'll be a true love of mine' and the following verses (Apologies, I only remember two of them, plowing with the lamb's horn//sow with one peppercorn, and reap with a sickle of leather//tie it all up with one peacock's feather')
Of course the lyrics are only as I remember them, but previous comments make mention of them and it seems like they were included in this, as well as mention of the woman's reply, which again is absent from the listed lyrics.
2A02:A457:8691:1:E804:80AA:372:3B71 (talk) 21:29, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Verses and Lyrics 

message: There are 30 historical recordings, mostly very rare, and old, available in the YouTube video called "". Also lots of intelligent commentary.
The creator of the compilation is "The Folk Revival Project". You can find other videos he/they made, including "John Barleycorn", Joseph Taylor and "Gaelic Waulking Songs".
Highly recommended for antiquarians like you. 95.146.20.115 (talk) 09:03, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  30 historical recordings 

message: The bit about Simon learning the song from Cathy neglects to point out that Simon was successfully sued for taking Cathy’s arrangement. (According to Simon, the money went to intermediaries, and Cathy saw none of it. Simon’s defense was that he didn’t know arrangements could be copyrighted.) ~~.   TheScotch (talk) 22:30, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lawsuit