Talk:List of Māori waka

message: This article presents the idea of  multiple return trips as fact when in fact it is speculation.In modern times various folk have copied the old voyages but in every case the authenticty of the trip has been compromised-ie one Waka had a 9.9HP yamaha outboard,one was made of fibreglass,most use modern food,some use synthetic sails and ropes-one was even caughton video by the RNZAF being towed by its escort ship,nearly all had radios to get weather forecasts and most carried modern navigation equipment on board .Most of the date on Pacific voyaging is romance and speculation with the same vague notions being endlessly repeated.Undoubtedly Polynesians did wander around the Pacific.The only hard evidence that Polynesins came to NZ and then left is a few bits of obsidian found in islands north of NZ but there is no guarantee that these were not placed there later.Was it really nz obsidian? Claudia jan 2011  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.37.160 (talk) 03:59, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting angle. Accounts of canoes going between New Zealand and Hawaiki can be found in many traditions across New Zealand. Whether or not these return voyages actually happened is a matter for multi-disciplinary research. First and foremost, the information in this article is meant to be a list of the waka that appear in these traditions. Of course these traditions vary, and it wasn't the intention for this article to present these accounts as indisputable historical fact (Te Ara gives an insight on these canoe traditions here). The lede should have made this clearer perhaps, and I've changed it accordingly. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 07:53, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Return trips presented as facts 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm uncomfortable with translating waka as canoe, because in English canoe normally implies a small open row-boat with no cockpit or shelter, holding just a few people who sit single-file.
While this meaning may be modified by adjectival phrases, such as war canoe or migratory canoe, the base meaning of canoe comes nowhere close to describing migratory vessels like Kurahaupo.
The Polynesian migratory waka were ocean-going vessels that looked and functioned a lot more like modern catamarans than tiny rowboats: typical dimensions exceeded 10 metres long by 5 metres wide. They were equipped with a sail and rudder, and some included a "cooking house" to keep the stone firepit dry.
Size is immaterial: a single-scull kayak and a 5000-tonne ship are both waka, in part because the waka that brought the ancestors to Aotearoa were larger-than-life characters in their own right. And today waka can mean any passenger vehicle, such as a minivan or aeroplane (though some may see that as overly poetic - I seek comment from better-skilled speakers of te reo.)
While it is usual here in New Zealand to translate waka as canoe, this acts to modify what a New Zealander understands by canoe; this shift in meaning will not be obvious to the majority of readers worldwide. More apt translations of waka (in the context of this category) would include boat or vessel or great canoe, and my question is whether canoe should be proactively changed in the category description?
Martin Kealey (talk) 00:25, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canoe doesn't fairly describe Waka