Talk:Ched Evans

message: Due to vandalism, I've reverted to the last known good version - please feel free to update with Sheff Utd transfer details when better sourced. Minkythecat (talk) 20:10, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sheff Utd transfer 

message: Think, given recent events, that this site is prime for locking except for registered users. Anyone agree? Martyn Smith (talk) 15:07, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Go to WP:RPP Leaky Caldron 15:48, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Semi-protected for a week. When I first looked at the article history as the news broke, changes were largely constructive, but as the news of Evans' imprisonment has spread, that is no longer the case, and I have applied protection. Oldelpaso (talk) 15:57, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Removed. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Strange. It doesn't appear to me, including if I log out. Looking at the article history, the offending text was removed in this edit by Mattythewhite and is not present in any of the subsequent revisions. Very occasionally, users who are not logged-in can end up viewing a version of a page from their browser cache instead of the up to date version. That could be happening here. Is it still there if you manually reload the page? (press Ctrl-F5 in Internet Explorer, or Ctrl-Shift-R in Firefox or Chrome) Oldelpaso (talk) 09:23, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

text: That is very odd. I can say unequivocally that nobody is reverting and the text hasn't been re-added at any point - every single revision is listed and viewable in the article history, and I've checked every one since then (for reference, at the time of writing the current revision is this one). Everything looks as it should be from the Wikipedia end, which makes it puzzling as to why you are being served with the wrong version. I can't see it being anything over than a caching issue. What browser are you using? Are you reloading the page using the keyboard shortcuts I gave or by clicking the refresh button on the browser? Sometimes pressing the refresh button can still end up loading some of the page from the browser cache, those keyboard shortcuts bypass that and make sure every item on the page is reloaded from scratch. There's some further instructions for trying to resolve this kind of issue at Wikipedia:Bypass your cache. If that doesn't work it ought to be raised elsewhere as a potential bug with the site. Oldelpaso (talk) 20:54, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Lock?

message: change the sheffield united years to end in 2012
90.212.106.17 (talk) 17:38, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: We have no evidence his contract has been terminated by Sheff Utd, unless you can provide multiple reliable sources? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:43, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've not seen any mention of cancelling his contract - the club have not mentioned it and there's no report in the Star or on the BBC (which are the most reliable for Blades info).  I think the club are waiting to see what happens re an appeal.  HIs deal runs out this summer anyway so they probably don't want to draw any more publicity to the whole affair.Bladeboy1889 (talk) 18:17, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 23 April 2012 

message: Enough edit-warring. Discuss your changes here and establish consensus on how the article should appear. Protected one week. --Dweller (talk) 14:00, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In part this was due to ClueBot reverting as vandalism the IP's rapist addition in opening paragraph. Obviously not vandalism and not necessarily an improper placement. Leaky Caldron 14:08, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite right. But there's been other revert warring of late, too. --Dweller (talk) 14:11, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Not sure if ClueBot should be reported, not sure how selective it can be and the addition of rapist would often be a genuine BLP vio. What are your thoughts on the IP's reference in the opening para? Seems reasonable per WP:MOSBEGIN and WP:BEGINNING given that he is probably now better known as a conviced criminal than a footballer (apart from by football supporters of course). Leaky Caldron 14:31, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that's true - he meets notability criteria because of his football career not his rape conviction.  Were he (formerly) a painter and decorator he wouldn't have a wikipedia article.  The rape conviction is only notable in itself because of his vocation.  The reason I'd done some reverts is that IP's keep either vandalising the page or just adding mentions of this crime all over the place, and having done a lot of work in getting it to GA I don't want the article to deteriorate at the hands of random IPs.  In terms of the intro I don't see what purpose a short sentence (which I maintain is poor grammar anyway) stating his conviction serves, when it is covered in more detail further down the intro.  What we should maybe do is change the first sentence to referring to him as a former footballer however. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 15:28, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd also suggest that the insistence of the IP that his conviction is the key notable fact about his is certainly not NPOV Bladeboy1889 (talk) 15:32, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This has also happened at Jonathan King with some IP editors insisting on saying that he is a convicted paedophile in the opening sentence. Where a person is famous for something other than a court case, there is no need to have it in the opening sentence as this can violate WP:NPOV.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:43, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No real attempt made to discuss this then? I propose altering the opening sentence to "...is a professional footballer who is currently serving a prison sentence following a conviction for rape." I'll make this change in a few days unless there's a consensus not to. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 21:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: So as soon as the protection comes off someone has seen fit to copy the entire section about his conviction into the lead which goes against MOS:LEAD and give undue emphasis to the content thus suggesting it was done for WP:NPOV reasons.  This is really starting to get annoying now. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 09:14, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

text: Re this edit: whether Evans likes it or not, he is probably now more famous for the controversy over his rape conviction than for anything that he did on the football field. The edit was reverted because attempting to conflate being a footballer and rapist into the same sentence leads to clumsy wording, something which has been reverted previously. As for Bladeboy1889's suggestion that Evans should be described as a former footballer, this leads to an element of WP:CRYSTAL, as a club *may* sign him, but don't hold your breath waiting.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:39, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

text: I agree that he is vastly better known now as a rapist than as a footballer. I also agree that we should not say "former" footballer as he may well play again. I am disappointed that this edit was reverted; it is usually better to seek a compromise than make a blind revert, especially when you say you basically agree with the intent of the edit. I shall try to do what you ought to have done and seek a compromise. --John (talk) 18:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Previous problems have occurred because of attempts to find a consensus based on MOS:BEGIN. This does not require everything to be in the opening sentence, rather it should be in the opening paragraph. At the time of writing, there are reports that he may be signed by Oldham Athletic,  but this may fall through like the other attempted signings.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:17, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  yes it is a tricky one, the Rapist Ched Evans is better known and better covered in the media as a rapist than a footballer and the article should reflect that. --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:30, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  He's covered as a footballer whose conviction for rape makes obstacles in playing as a footballer. There wouldn't be as much coverage of him if he wasn't still trying to resume his football career. tAD (talk) 21:50, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

text: *Exactly. I think it is inaccurate to say that he is better known as a rapist than a footballer; he is best known as a professional footballer who was convicted of rape, and every bit of coverage on him about the rape case has almost always had some reference to him being a footballer. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:52, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

text: *Equally, do we need to cover every single club that has been linked with him? I don't think doing so is appropriate, and we don't generally do it for other footballers regardless of their stature. Some of the links are obviously notable, such as the Sheffield United one, but is there really any notability in the Tranmere link, or the Oldham Athletic one as it stands right now? I don't think so. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:56, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: @User:Lukeno94 These are not simply clubs "linked with him" as that would break Wikipedia's rules on gossip. These clubs have either expressed interest in him, let him train or discussed with his agent, bringing reaction from club patrons, MPs, and even the Prime Minister and Justice Minister of an EU member state. In most other cases, a former League One player being in discussion with a League Two club would only be covered in the local newspaper or buried deep on the BBC Sport website's page for said club. tAD (talk) 00:03, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

text: *Tranmere's link doesn't appear to have been discussed beyond a mere rumour/statement of interest. The Oldham Athletic one isn't notable yet either. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 00:28, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't insert Oldham myself into the article as it is still unconfirmed. However, reliable sources have reaction from the manager and owner on it. tAD (talk) 01:16, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

text: *I know you didn't, but it's still not particularly notable right now. The Maltese one is, as are the Sheffield United and Hartlepool ones... but the others are purely routine transfer speculation (it isn't that unheard of for managers to object publicly to the signing of a particular player, although it isn't common) and have no place there. At this rate, half of the career section is going to be dedicated to the transfer saga! Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 10:35, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article protected 

message: :Re this edit: whether Evans likes it or not, he is probably now more famous for the controversy over his rape conviction than for anything that he did on the football field. The edit was reverted because attempting to conflate being a footballer and rapist into the same sentence leads to clumsy wording, something which has been reverted previously. As for Bladeboy1889's suggestion that Evans should be described as a former footballer, this leads to an element of WP:CRYSTAL, as a club *may* sign him, but don't hold your breath waiting.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:39, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that he is vastly better known now as a rapist than as a footballer. I also agree that we should not say "former" footballer as he may well play again. I am disappointed that this edit was reverted; it is usually better to seek a compromise than make a blind revert, especially when you say you basically agree with the intent of the edit. I shall try to do what you ought to have done and seek a compromise. --John (talk) 18:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Previous problems have occurred because of attempts to find a consensus based on MOS:BEGIN. This does not require everything to be in the opening sentence, rather it should be in the opening paragraph. At the time of writing, there are reports that he may be signed by Oldham Athletic,  but this may fall through like the other attempted signings.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:17, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  yes it is a tricky one, the Rapist Ched Evans is better known and better covered in the media as a rapist than a footballer and the article should reflect that. --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:30, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  He's covered as a footballer whose conviction for rape makes obstacles in playing as a footballer. There wouldn't be as much coverage of him if he wasn't still trying to resume his football career. tAD (talk) 21:50, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

text: *Exactly. I think it is inaccurate to say that he is better known as a rapist than a footballer; he is best known as a professional footballer who was convicted of rape, and every bit of coverage on him about the rape case has almost always had some reference to him being a footballer. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:52, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

text: *Equally, do we need to cover every single club that has been linked with him? I don't think doing so is appropriate, and we don't generally do it for other footballers regardless of their stature. Some of the links are obviously notable, such as the Sheffield United one, but is there really any notability in the Tranmere link, or the Oldham Athletic one as it stands right now? I don't think so. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:56, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: @User:Lukeno94 These are not simply clubs "linked with him" as that would break Wikipedia's rules on gossip. These clubs have either expressed interest in him, let him train or discussed with his agent, bringing reaction from club patrons, MPs, and even the Prime Minister and Justice Minister of an EU member state. In most other cases, a former League One player being in discussion with a League Two club would only be covered in the local newspaper or buried deep on the BBC Sport website's page for said club. tAD (talk) 00:03, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

text: *Tranmere's link doesn't appear to have been discussed beyond a mere rumour/statement of interest. The Oldham Athletic one isn't notable yet either. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 00:28, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't insert Oldham myself into the article as it is still unconfirmed. However, reliable sources have reaction from the manager and owner on it. tAD (talk) 01:16, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

text: *I know you didn't, but it's still not particularly notable right now. The Maltese one is, as are the Sheffield United and Hartlepool ones... but the others are purely routine transfer speculation (it isn't that unheard of for managers to object publicly to the signing of a particular player, although it isn't common) and have no place there. At this rate, half of the career section is going to be dedicated to the transfer saga! Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 10:35, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: January 2015

message: It says on the page, "his career was marked by controversy". I wanna change that to "marred" and I think this is a better word to use
Nickclayden2796 (talk) 16:45, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't think that is the right word (in this context).  G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 17:18, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2015 

message: I want to update the picture of Ched Evans as he looks slightly different now so I want to upload a new picture of him. 
86.150.161.233 (talk) 17:44, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead!  Just make sure that it is appropriately licensed and then upload it.  You might find the File Upload Wizard useful.  G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 18:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the existing image is public domain (cropped from this image) it would run into problems with WP:NFCC if the new image was copyrighted, such as an image found in a web search. The infobox image dates from 2008, but it is still a reasonable likeness of Ched Evans. The only other image on Commons is this one, which isn't very good IMHO.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:06, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2015 

message: In this edit the section about Evans' attempts to find a new club was moved further up the page. I agree that the "personal life" section was getting overburdened by his search for a new club, but I am not sure that was the right place to put it.
His search is not part of his club career, and if he were to get a position with Oldham later this week then his club career section would say "Manchester City -  Sheffield United - Attempts to find a new club - Oldham" - it just doesn't fit in there.
I would propose putting that back under "Personal Life" and making it a subsection - either that or give his search for a new club a new section after personal life.Stroller (talk) 03:24, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The Almightey Drill seems an indecisive fellow.. I've also restored the notice he removed previously. Stroller (talk) 00:28, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Attempts to find a new club" section move 

message: In the Personal Life section, the article says: 'Karl Massey has set up a website proclaiming Evans to be innocent of his rape conviction,' but fails to give the name of that website.
Why mention the website without the name or a link? That would be relevant information, surely? Gnu Ordure (talk) 18:14, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably not linked because its name is not given in the newspaper article cited. I assume this is a reference to ChedEvans.com which bills itself as "Ched Evans Official Website: Ched Evans Was Wrongly Convicted". I see no reason not to have this site mentioned or linked somewhere - if not there, then maybe at the bottom of the page as a "Related links" section. Stroller (talk) 00:40, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Karl Massey's website 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article reads "He was released on 17 October 2014, although he remains on the Violent and Sex Offender Register indefinitely".
I'm not a legal expert, but surely if his conviction is quashed, there is no reason for him to be registered as a criminal at all?
, do you know the drill here? tAD (talk) 14:44, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not an expert on this either, but the conviction has only been quashed pending a retrial in October this year, so it is not quite the same as the conviction being quashed altogether. The wording could be altered in the article to reflect this. The Violent and Sex Offender Register cannot be accessed by members of the public, so it is hard to say for sure what the current status of Evans is. Since it was not a child sex offence, "Sarah's Law" would not apply here.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:18, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still registered? 

message: It's Chris Morgan, not Craig Short. Ref .  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.140.7 (talk) 15:20, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spireite 1st team coach 

message: The sentence that says Ched Evans will remain on the violent sex offenders register is incorrect.  His details were removed the moment his conviction was quashed.
Please remove this information immediately.
(Cemediafollower (talk) 10:14, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing this out, it has also been mentioned in the section above. It may well be that the ban was lifted when the original verdict was quashed, but there was a lack of reliable sourcing. I've removed this for the time being.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 10:27, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:   Incorrect information 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have fully protected the article for 24 hours to give everyone some breathing space. I realise completely whitewashing the article is not the answer, but perhaps some of the content in question could be trimmed a bit as a compromise? Discuss. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:48, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll have a look but it's obvious that all mention of the rape trial is not going to be removed. It's a pity that the IP did this without any WP:BRD discussion.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:50, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

text: Thanks,, for equating the edits of myself and  to those of the IP removing sourced material. Discuss with whom exactly? The IP hopper?  ——SerialNumber54129 17:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: My speculation is that the IP is either Ched Evans or someone associated with him - it's certainly someone who is cross and upset about the rape trial. Given that the conviction was quashed, I think there's an argument to be made that it no longer belongs in the lead, and that the trial information should be pared down a bit. To pick a random comparable example, Paul Gambaccini, the lead does not mention his Operation Yewtree arrest, which is restricted to a few paragraphs in the body (and even then I think it could be pared down). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:58, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: We also have the spin-off article R v Evans and McDonald. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:22, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

text: I did a quick news search for Evans and all but one hit on the first two pages are about football. Four years ago it would have been a different story, but he's been found innocent in a court of law. So while we have to cover the imprisonment and trial, WP:BLPCRIME suggests we don't go overboard about it like some of the tabloids did. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ho. Ho. Ho. ——SerialNumber54129 18:25, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, happened just after I went to bed; I'd have done exactly the same. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:27, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected