Template talk:Infobox Chinese/Archive 1

message: Take a look at Sino-British Joint Declaration.  At the time of this comment, the lines dividing the sections of an article go right through the template.  I've tried to fix it to give the template a solid background, but my fixes did not work.  Someone more familiar with the template, please fix it so that it has a solid white background.  - Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Section lines go through template

message: This template is horribly unattractive in its font, spacing, font size, and color.  Could it be made just like the Korean name (or Chinese name template, but just with a slightly different color?  Thank you,  Badagnani 08:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template 

message: I have changed "Postal system pinyin" in the template to "Postal map spelling", which will redirect to Chinese Postal Map Romanization. For any questions regarding this change, see Talk:Chinese Postal Map Romanization.--Niohe 19:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chinese Postal Map Romanization

message: * There is the current :Template:Chinese which can do Chinese names but not Japanese or any other names.  But it can do multiple names.
* There is :Template:Chinesename which can do simple language names, but not multiple names.  It can switch between traditional or simplified displays.  
* There is :Template:cjk which can do Chinese, Japanese etc. But not multiple names.
It would be best to just combine the best feature of all three.  Benjwong 19:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The color scheme of cjk doesn't look very good, though it might have potential. Chinesename and Chinese are similar; I support adding extra languages to "Chinesename" rather than using "Chinese" (the colors and layout of this one are strange too). Badagnani 20:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  On one hand you said that "the colors and layout of this one [the "Chinese" template] are strange"; on the other hand you said that "Chinesename and Chinese are similar". In that regard, the two templates - "Chinesename" and "Chinese" - are equally strange. :-P - Alan 22:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I apologize that I have nothing overly constructive to contribute, but I would definitely support the creation of an effective template for this. The more features in a single template, the better. It compartmentalizes things nicely, and avoids the problem of multiple templates vying for the same space. (I rather like Template:Cjk, if the colors were changed, and the ability to do multiple names were added.) LordAmeth 21:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am glad that you like Template:Cjk. However, I believe that we should worry more about whether the templates are informative, clear and systematic at this point, instead of putting too much attention on the colour scheme. Aesthetic is something subjective and arbitary. While some people would like colour scheme A better, some people would like colour scheme B better. It would be an endless discussion to talk about which colour "looks nice". But overall, the color scheme is something that can easily be modified in the program code. Perhaps we can ask around and find out the colour that most people like, and then switch to the new colour scheme. That shouldn't be too big of a problem to worry about. Alan 22:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: One very serious problem is that the template syntax of cjk and Chinese are extremely complicated, something that is not true of "Chinesename." And cjk takes up a lot more space, being less economical in that regard.Badagnani 21:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, well, I have very little experience in coding, so whatever others think is good should be fine. I think the key thing is to make sure the template is flexible to represent as many different languages and different scripts as may be needed on any given article. LordAmeth 22:05, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I am ok with changing to :Template:Chinese if it can do the Japanese and the many languages like :Template:Cjk. The problem is that I am not much of a wiki coder. Let me do a comparison chart.  I will print result here.  Hang on. Benjwong 22:41, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, we are not really "changing to :Template:Chinese". Notice that:Template:Chinese has been existing, and has been widely used, BEFORE another Wikipedian wrote the additional template, :Template:Chinesename. Also, as I mentioned above, :Template:Chinese can display names in Japanese and many other languages. - Alan 22:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Template:Chinese still looks very strange. Better than when it had the dark blue highlighting on top, but still strange, non-standard. Badagnani 22:44, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: As I mentioned above, aesthetic is something subjective and arbitary. You think :Template:Chinese is strange. But a lot of other Wikipedians might actually like it. I think :Template:Chinese is actually pretty colourful and attractive, while :Template:Chinesename is rather dull and unattractive. Alan 22:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: It's not just the color, but the design (such as the fact that Chinesename is more economical of space). And the syntax of the template is very, very complex. Any number of new languages can be added to the Chinese name template, so that's not a problem. Badagnani 23:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Also, I don't believe the transliteration should be hidden, as in Template:Chinese. Badagnani 23:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The idea of hiding the transliteration was a consensus of a long discussion started by Hong Kong Wikipedians long ago. But no one figured out how to write codes that does that until recently. The rationale behind hiding the transliteration was that there are just too many transliterations to be shown (e.g. Hanyu Pinyin, Tongyong Pinyin, Wades-Giles, Jyutping, Yale, POJ, and a lot more...). These transliterations take up a lot of space and are not something that most readers would be interested in. You were complaining that the template took up a lot of space, but now the transliterations are displayed "on demand", and the template now takes up a lot less space than "Chinesename". I don't think it makes much sense to complain that "translierations should be hidden". - Alan 23:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Comparison charts are coming.  Hang on. Benjwong 23:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Can we standardize and combine features from the templates??

message: Please do not systematically replace the existing inline format for display of Chinese text and romanizations without warning or discussion. It is not necessary to have this box on every Chinese-related page. In any case there should be a consensus on the Manual of Style before this kind of massive replacement is done. — Kelw (talk) 23:39, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's continue the talk here. Benjwong 23:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Replacing inline format

message: In Solar terms, this template interferes with  which may be a problem with the latter template. However, even when I remove the Solar terms template, this Chinese template still interferes with remaining table—the text from both tables overlay each other transparently, especially when the text size is increased. Although  prevents the interference, excessive white space is then generated. — Joe Kress 21:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I want to say solar terms is a unique page.  It has two big templates, followed directly by another table.  None of them make way for one another. If you try another language template, it'll likely have the same effect.  So  is a good quick fix.  Template:Chinese do stack with most templates. See Shenzhen article for example. I am open to any solution really.  Benjwong 03:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Interference

message: I've added a switch to the Korean name fields which can be used to adjust them to a North Korean context. To activate the switch, use northkorea=yes. This feature can be seen in Sino-Korea Friendship Bridge. PC78 03:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: North Korea

message: This template looks great - I know people have been working hard on it the last few weeks, and you've all done a fine job. I wonder, though, if there's any option to alter the heading, so it doesn't read "Chinese". Most of the topics I'm working on are not primarily Chinese topics, so it would be great to have a language template where Japanese, Vietnamese, or Okinawan can be the primary language listed, with Chinese coming later - in these cases, having "Chinese" as the header at the top of the template doesn't really work. This template could be quite useful not only for CJKV languages but also for all the world's languages - but in order to be used that way, the "Chinese" heading has to go. Thanks. LordAmeth 13:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it doesn't make sense. I don't know why it was changed from the template Template:Chinesename, which reads "Chinese name" at the top, which is more logical. The color blue signifies it's a primarily China-related topic, purple is Korean. I believe the Chinese template ought to say "Chinese name" at the top rather than Chinese. Badagnani 14:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks; I agree with you that Chinese name is more logical than just Chinese, I guess. But actually, I was looking for a template which would allow the editor to choose the heading. I've been working on and off on various topics related to the Ryukyu Kingdom; I'd like to be able to represent the Chinese, Japanese, and Okinawan versions of the kingdom's name, but with Okinawan first (and most prominently), not Chinese. Even a neutral heading like "Native name" or "In other languages" would be preferable to "Chinese" or "Chinese name". I understand that this template is originally intended for Chinese usage, and I do not mean to be obnoxious or anything, but I just think it would be useful if the heading were more flexible. Unfortunately, I don't know much at all about template coding syntax, so I won't hazard to "be bold" and change the template myself. LordAmeth 23:07, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Heading

message: When Chinese characters are displayed on Wikipedia article pages using this template, they are just big enough to be read clearly by those not thoroughly familiar an east Asian language - provided one is using a Windows browser. If a Mac browser is used, the Chinese characters are too small. I already corrected this on several Wikipedia article pages, but those corrections were undone when this more sophisticated template was put in place. For the sake of the 5% who use Mac browsers, please consider bumping the font size of just the Chinese characters up one notch. -DoctorW 17:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If one notch means going from the current size of 95% to 100%, it is do-able.  Anything higher, is probably a bad idea. Benjwong 03:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why? What would be wrong with 110% or even 120%? As it is now it is simply too small on Mac browsers. They should be easily readable. -DoctorW 05:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Font size for Chinese characters 

message: What's wrong with adding Xiao'erjing and Bopomofo? They are Chinese writing methods. 132.205.44.5 21:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We are still in the middle of standardizing templates or trying to here.  Please avoid any new parameters and language adding for the time being.  Thx. Benjwong 15:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems discussions are through? So can these two be added to the template? 132.205.44.5 22:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Bopomofo and xiao-erjing have been added to mandarin. Dungan has been added as a language and to mandarin (dialect of), as it's both, depending on who you ask. Xiao-erjing is also used for Dungan... 70.55.202.250 (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 21:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bopomofo and Xiao'erjing 

message: An anon user has removed diacritics from some of the name fields, stating that we "don't use them" in this template. Is this in fact the case? I can't see any discussion above or in the archived talk to support this claim. PC78 10:34, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The editor also made a whole lot of other edits to the template, as you can see from the template's history.  I don't know if there was a previous consensus to not use diacritics, but I assumed he removed it from the singular instance of usage because they were not used anywhere else on the template.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: diacritics are a bad idea, it hurts usability in parameter names. (unless you mean actual text, and not parameters?) 70.55.202.250 (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 22:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diacritics? 

message: When I came upon this template at Nanking Massacre I almost balked. This is an infobox intended to present linguistic aspects of the name of the article, yet it takes on the guise of a general infobox in its full splendor! I find this horrible. I urge you to downscale the appearance of this template. I am going to AfD it if something drastic isn't done to accomodate this grievance. __meco (talk)
:This template is designed to be both an general way to present the linguistic aspects of the name of the subject as well as take on the form of an infobox. If you wish to change this template, I suggest that you start a civil discussion and refrain from threatening to do this or that or demand that something be done immediately. nat.utoronto 19:18, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Though I can sympathize with your reaction finding the announcement of an AfD a drastic measure, I am in earnest, and I do not think I am being uncivil. I contend that this infobox, as it takes shape in the article I mentioned, is a monstrosity. I stand aghast at its immodest layout and that it takes on the appearance of regular infoboxes. __meco (talk) 20:42, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

text: The user means particularly the size, that is correct. If that change proves insufficient, I would consider looking at other features of its layout to make it less ostentatious. This may be a little "labour of love" that has gone somewhat amok, and I must hasten to emphasize that I find it very appealing. However, that's the problem. It steals the show, and an infobox outlining various spellings in different scripts should not be an article's main attraction. For one thing, there should be no image option in this template. That is way outside the scope of such a template. __meco (talk) 20:42, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The box works well at articles for subjects such as Tofu, with similar names among many Asian languages. However, the colors are horrible and the fact that the romanizations are hidden is unnecessary and problematic. Badagnani (talk) 23:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, that example makes me even more convinced that this template is a bastard that needs to go unless the changes I have demanded are put into effect. This is not Wiktionary, and making an article present the spelling of the name the most prominently featured aspect of the article is significantly lowering its quality. __meco (talk) 03:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Template was speedy kept. 70.55.84.13 (talk) 06:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hopefully you are going to do something about the issue which was the reason for my nominating the template. __meco (talk) 06:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem with the template the way it is. Your suggestion would be that we create a wiktionary entry for every article, is it not? Personally, I think that _every_ article on Wikipedia should have a section listing what the topic is called in other languages. (And interlang links don't cut it, since those articles need not be equivalent, nor would they exist in every alternate wikipedia) Wiktionary won't accept such information for every article, since they're not always words. Such information is important, and encyclopedic, and will help people using Wikipedia for school work, or to look up references in foreign languages if they know what its called. 70.55.84.13 (talk) 06:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you'd actually be very clear and specific about which things you'd like to be changed (other than deleting the template), that would be great, because it would allow us to consider and make those changes. Badagnani (talk) 06:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: If you read my argument, you see that I do not object to any of the information being presented. I propose that this template is presented as collapsible auto-hide except for a title heading. __meco (talk) 07:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have to oppose this, as the Asian names (as well as photo and caption) are crucial to the Asian-themed articles in which the names appear. Badagnani (talk) 08:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What do general images related to the subject have to do in a linguistics infobox in the first place? __meco (talk) 08:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm beginning to see that you have difficulty dealing with what you perceive to be irreconcilable items: in this case, a photograph and various names. That's fine; we all deal with our data in different manners. However, as you've seen from the discussion earlier today, other editors do not. In my opinion, at Chopsticks or Tofu I do want to know, in a single box, what the item looks like and how it is called in the nation that invented it (in this case, China), and the nations nearby that have related, or different languages (in this case, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc.). Badagnani (talk) 08:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And as I've attempted to relay a couple of times already I do not (at least not for the time being, although I might want to take issue with that aspect as well) protest the availability of this information. It is the way in which is being presented that I so strongly object to. Anyway, I have invoked the attention of et wikiEn-L mailing list on this, so we'll see if some people who aren't completely entrenched can provide some fresh perspectives. __meco (talk) 09:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about. I honestly don't really care, either. Johnleemk | Talk 10:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I came to take a look after seeing the post on wikiEn-L, and I too honestly don't understand what the fuss is about. --Stormie (talk) 00:45, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Have some people got their priorities completely mixed up? 

message: Template: has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — meco (talk) 13:42, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Template was speedy kept. 70.55.84.13 (talk) 06:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hopefully you are going to do something about the issue which was the reason for my nominating the template. __meco (talk) 06:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem with the template the way it is. Your suggestion would be that we create a wiktionary entry for every article, is it not? Personally, I think that _every_ article on Wikipedia should have a section listing what the topic is called in other languages. (And interlang links don't cut it, since those articles need not be equivalent, nor would they exist in every alternate wikipedia) Wiktionary won't accept such information for every article, since they're not always words. Such information is important, and encyclopedic, and will help people using Wikipedia for school work, or to look up references in foreign languages if they know what its called. 70.55.84.13 (talk) 06:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you'd actually be very clear and specific about which things you'd like to be changed (other than deleting the template), that would be great, because it would allow us to consider and make those changes. Badagnani (talk) 06:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: If you read my argument, you see that I do not object to any of the information being presented. I propose that this template is presented as collapsible auto-hide except for a title heading. __meco (talk) 07:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have to oppose this, as the Asian names (as well as photo and caption) are crucial to the Asian-themed articles in which the names appear. Badagnani (talk) 08:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What do general images related to the subject have to do in a linguistics infobox in the first place? __meco (talk) 08:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm beginning to see that you have difficulty dealing with what you perceive to be irreconcilable items: in this case, a photograph and various names. That's fine; we all deal with our data in different manners. However, as you've seen from the discussion earlier today, other editors do not. In my opinion, at Chopsticks or Tofu I do want to know, in a single box, what the item looks like and how it is called in the nation that invented it (in this case, China), and the nations nearby that have related, or different languages (in this case, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc.). Badagnani (talk) 08:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And as I've attempted to relay a couple of times already I do not (at least not for the time being, although I might want to take issue with that aspect as well) protest the availability of this information. It is the way in which is being presented that I so strongly object to. Anyway, I have invoked the attention of et wikiEn-L mailing list on this, so we'll see if some people who aren't completely entrenched can provide some fresh perspectives. __meco (talk) 09:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about. I honestly don't really care, either. Johnleemk | Talk 10:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I came to take a look after seeing the post on wikiEn-L, and I too honestly don't understand what the fuss is about. --Stormie (talk) 00:45, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD nomination of [[:Template:{{ucfirst:Chinese}}]] 

message: I like the template - it declutters things a lot but I have a question: if I get this right, showflag= will add a transliteration to the automatically displayed section. So showflag=p adds Pinyin, showflag=pj adds Pinyin and Jyutping. But for some reason I cannot get showflag=y to work to display Yale rather than Jyutping. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong please? Thanks! Akerbeltz (talk) 14:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The feature was hardcode added for a few of the commonly used flags.  It cannot do all romanizations. Unless we find someone who can do it dynamically (if that is the word?) Benjwong (talk) 04:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Question about showflag command

message: I would like to add MPS2 to the template section for Mandarin romanisations - this was the official romanisation in Taiwan from 1986 until the implementation of Tongyong Pinyin in 2000. It's still used in Taiwan from time to time and is also found in reference to events during the period of its official use. As an example, the government website of Jhonghe City, an article I am working on at the moment, is www.junghe.tpc.gov.tw - the spelling of the name is in MPS2.
Any thoughts/objections? Taffy U|T|E 11:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free. Please make sure it shows up in the document as well as under altname. Benjwong (talk) 04:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Thanks! Taffy U|T|E 04:46, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding MPS2

message: This template is terrific. But it is weird to have it be called Chinese when it is sometimes being used for showing the Korean and Japanese versions of a name. It should be renamed to Template:Multi-language name. 70.17.185.94 (talk) 18:27, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Chinese is the primary name. It's not "multi-language" because the other languages are languages that are also from East Asia, many having some relationship with Chinese. Badagnani (talk) 18:37, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This should be renamed 

message: The listings for "Min Nan POJ" should really be changed to "Hokkien POJ" as peh-oe-ji is only used for Hokkien (including Amoy, Taiwanes, etc.) and not for other forms of Min Nan. The romanisation for Teochew is listed under that name, although it is also a form of Min Nan - the same should be done for POJ.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.109.170.213 (talk) 00:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POJ 

message: I tried to edit 'Indian name' to 'Hindi name', as several other Indian languages are also used with the template (like Tamil, Urdu used at Aksai Chin). I did an edit (), but it still appears as 'Indian name' at Aksai Chin. How to do? --Soman (talk) 13:00, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears as Hindi name ok. Your changes did work. Benjwong (talk) 04:47, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hindi 

message: Templates such as  do not work. They insert the three templates literally so that it reads simplified Chinese: ; traditional Chinese: ; pinyin: . Please could someone have a look at this? Thanks, JRawle (Talk) 22:23, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The template works fine.  you just need to specify the character yourself when you use the template.  if you just type  you'll see the variable tags, like , come through.  instead, you need to type something like , where the 's=', 't=', and 'p=' parts assign the correct character to the variable.  wikipedia templates aren't smart enough to know which chinese character goes where on their own.  --Ludwigs2 22:45, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the explanation. Now I see what I was doing wrong. I hadn't included the variable names. Is it now standard/preferred on Wikipedia to use variables in this way, rather than having arguments in a set order, e.g. ? JRawle (Talk) 02:52, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: don't know if it's standard and preferred...  using named variables has some advantages over positional variables, but there are times and places where positional variables are better.  some templates even allow both.  --Ludwigs2 04:15, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combined templates broken 

message: OK, I see that there's some history here. I've just wasted a good hour attempting to investigate exactly what's going on with this template, but honestly I don't really care. I see the nomination for TfD, which seems to be an attempt (misguided?) to address what I'm about to bring up here.
I don't have an issue with the purpose or the existence of this template. I can see it's usefulness, regardless of whether or not I personally find it useful. The problem is that the template takes over the entire article, in every article that it is included in!
I find it hard to believe that the authors of this template didn't/don't see the problem with it in it's current form. It seem blatantly obvious to me that there is an issue with it, but assuming that some people will not understand what the issue is please see the article Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. Compare that article prior to and after my simple edit commenting out the use of this template, please.
Ohms law (talk) 06:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I simply reverted the last change made to the template and it seems to be fixed now.  Incidentally the TfD you mentioned looks to well predate the current issue.  -Amake (talk) 06:42, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I also left a warning on the guilty editor's talk page.  -Amake (talk) 06:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

text: Ah, I see... Thanks for clearing up the issue so quickly. Now I need to fix the Tiananmen article that I "fixed" previously (oops!) I think that the whole TfD "incident" caused me some confusion here. I hadn't really had any exposure to this template prior to tonight (that I know of, at least), so coming here and seeing that whole mess seems to have created some misconceptions on my part as to what was occurring here. Anyway, Thanks for correcting the problem. Ohms law (talk) 06:57, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please fix this template 

message: Administrator, please protect this template because the template is very difficult.
Triwikanto (talk) 00:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Pre-emptive protection is a bad idea. The template is fine as it is. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 01:39, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protect this template 

message: At Zhou Dynasty, the IPA for the Mandarin is used. However, it appears under Cantonese, despite no Cantonese transcription being given. Is there no way to distinguish which language the "i" parameter encodes? — kwami (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  labeling problem 

message: I request that since we now have a Zhuang Wikipedia that the option to move Zhuang under the Chinese transliterations for non-Guangxi areas be allowed. The current format, which forces Zhuang outside of Chinese, is great for Guangxi, but if added to articles dealing with non-Guangxi areas, gives an implication that Zhuang is spoken in those areas. Yet I see few strong reasons not to include a Zhuang transcription. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 01:11, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Other than misleading people into thinking that Zhuang is Chinese? — kwami (talk) 07:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: well the flip side is that we would be misleading people into thinking that Zhuang is spoken in a particular area. I mean if people wish to seek further information then they should look into the Zhuang Language article... --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 11:28, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zhuang name 

message: This puzzled me: at the bottom of these two pages we find the same navigation box on its own, but in the first one it's expanded and in the second it's collapsed.  Why?  Surprisingly, it's because the second one has this infobox at the top of the page.
Navigation boxes built with  default to showing the navbox if it is the only one on the page and collapsing it if there are more than one.  However because this infobox is (optionally) collapsible, a navbox at the bottom of a page with this infobox at the top will be collapsed, which is surprising and, I think, unfortunate.  Kanguole 23:26, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collapse feature and navboxes 

message: This template's code needs to be updated to reflect that the variables for the Burmese name and the Mandarin Yale romanization are different, as they are currently one and the same (). And all of the articles that use this template need to be updated to reflect this.--Hintha(t) 23:12, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correcting the template's code (1 variable {{{my}}} for Mandarin Yale and Burmese) 

message: This is the English Wikipedia, and thus I STRONGLY recommend placing Cantonese under "C" (not Y), Mandarin under "M" (not "G") Hakka under "H" (not K), Shanghainese under "S" (not W), and so on. Maximum usability for everyone in the world is very, very important. Badagnani 04:39, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, as this will introduce inconsistency. We are classifying Chinese dialects by their top-level linguistic classification, and not by the common English name for sub-level dialects. For example, Shanghainese is a sub-dialect of Wu, and should not be interpreted as similar. Mandarin and Cantonese in the common sense of the word actually refers to a variant of the Mandarin and Cantonese dialects respectively. Are we going to change "Min" as "Hokkien" next, despite its obvious technical inaccuracies? Since there are only seven entries, I fail to see why users will somehow have major difficulties finding the correct classification, since "Mandarin", "Hakka" and "Cantonese" are also added to aid the English user.--Huaiwei 05:16, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  As per Huaiwei's statement, this template is largely sorted by something like a linguistic classification. But which one, exactly? — Sebastian 19:25, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, upon further study, I realize that the current arrangement is in fact a mix between linguistic and alphabetic criteria. The latter are of course not well defined, either; sometimes the blue box name has been used for sorting (as in Tagalog, which appears between "Hindi" and "Japanese"), and sometimes the language abbreviation (as e.g. in Burmese, which appears between "mon" and "por"). — Sebastian 19:41, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order of entries 

message: In this context, I would like to raise the question what to do in articles that are not primarily Chinese. Malaysian ringgit, e.g., is such a case, where it doesn't seem appropriate to put Chinese first. Then again, in that article, it is questionable if this template is of any use, anyway. Searching further, I didn't actually find many examples; most are geographic terms which at least border present day China, such as Pamir Mountains. Maybe it's better, in the interest of peaceful coexistence, to not start discussing these. But my interest here is from a language point of view, and "帕米尔" clearly is not originally Chinese. — Sebastian 19:25, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-Chinese sorting?