Talk:Kenneth MacAlpin

message: Whoever indexed the New Edinburgh History volume From Pictland to Alba - and I assume they'll do From Caledonia to Pictland - indexed this man as Cinaed f. Alpín (and Ciniod f. Elphin, which says "see Cinaed f. Alpín") [this is a printing artefact, and should have been Cináed f. Alpín according to the note on naming]. Everyone is treated the same by the indexer, even the Norse, Anglo-Saxons, and Irish. The text discusses "Cináed son of Alpín", "Áed son of Neill" [i.e. Áed mac Néill (Áed Findliath)], "Gofraid grandson of Ímar". It's English right enough, but it's not Wikipedia format. No Kenneths, Donalds, Constantines, Malcolms, Indulfs, Duncans to be seen. Of course, the Columbia Encyclopedia remains as it was. Woolf's and the indexers names would give:
:Constantín son of Wrguist, k. of Fortriu (we say Caustantín of the Picts
:Onuist son of Wrguist, k. of Fortriu (we say Óengus II of the Picts)
:Wen son of Onuist, k. of Fortriu (we say Uen of the Picts)
:Wrad son of Bargoit, k. of the Picts (we say Uurad of the Picts)
:some omitted
:Cináed son of Alpín, k. of the Picts (we say Kenneth I of Scotland)
:Domnall son of Alpín, k. of the Picts (we say Donald I of Scotland)
:Constantín son of Cináed, k. of the Picts (we say Constantine I of Scotland)
:Áed son of Cináed, k. of the Picts (we say Áed of Scotland)
:Eochaid son of Rhun, k. of ? (we say Eochaid of Scotland)
:Giric son of Dúngal, k. of ? (we say Giric of Scotland)
:Domnall son of Constantín, k. of Alba (we say Donald II of Scotland)
:Constantín son of Áed, k. of Alba (we say Constantine II of Scotland)
:Máel Coluim son of Domnall, k. of Alba (we say Malcolm I of Scotland)
:Ildulb son of Constantín, k. of Alba (we say Indulf of Scotland)
:Dub son of Máel Coluim, k. of Alba (we say Dub of Scotland)
:Cuilén son of Ildulb, k. of Alba (we say Cuilén of Scotland)
:Amlaíb son of Ildulb, k. of Alba (we say Amlaíb of Scotland)
:Cináed son of Máel Coluim, k. of Alba (we say Kenneth II of Scotland)
:Constantín son of Cuilén, k. of Alba (we say Constantine III of Scotland)
:Cináed son of Dub, k. of Alba (we say Kenneth III of Scotland)
:Máel Coluim son of Cináed, k. of Alba (we say Malcolm II of Scotland)
:Findláech son of Ruaidrí, k. of Alba (we say Findláech of Moray
:Máel Coluim son of Máel Brigte, k. of Alba (we say Máel Coluim of Moray
:Donnchad son of Crínán, k. of Alba (we say Duncan I of Scotland)
:Macbethad son of Findláech, k. of Alba (we say Macbeth of Scotland)
:Lulach son of Gilla Comgáin, k. of Alba (we say Lulach of Scotland)
:Máel Coluim son of Donnchad, k. of Alba (we say Malcolm III of Scotland)
If nothing else, you'd have to say that Clann Cináeda's official version is alive and well and living on Wikipedia. Angus McLellan  (Talk) 01:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Edinburgh History naming 

message: Perhaps the blanket move was in hindsight not the best start for this. My suggestion is that one of the proponents might relist whichever of the moves is in their opinion best justified, on its own, and try to have a neater discussion on that specific name, while bearing in mind that if it succeeds then other proposals will follow, and trying not to repeat arguments already well answered here. And IMO it would be good to try to have less discussion in the survey section, although I know it's often hard to decide exactly when to draw the line, and always easier in hindsight to see where you should have. Andrewa (talk) 04:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Where from here

message: Hey! I didn't get a chance to give my opinon on this 'proposed move'. Oh well, it's been moved already - I'm too late. GoodDay (talk) 19:10, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Commenting on Move

message: Kenneth MacAlpine was King of the Dalraida Scots who became King of Scots which was the combined Scots and Picts.
The way this article is written it reads that he was King of the Picts as though he was a Pict.  He was not a Pict but a Dalraida Scot.  Therefore this article should be edited to show this more accurately.
Presently it reads:
"Cináed mac Ailpín (Modern Gaelic: Coinneach mac Ailpein)[1], commonly Anglicised as Kenneth MacAlpin and known in most modern regnal lists as Kenneth I (died 13 February 858) was king of the Picts and, according to national myth, first king of Scots, earning him the posthumous nickname of An Ferbasach, "The Conqueror".[2] Kenneth's undisputed legacy was to produce a dynasty of rulers who claimed descent from him. Even though he cannot be regarded as the father of Scotland, he was the founder of the dynasty which ruled that country for much of the medieval period."
Recommend it should read:
"Cináed mac Ailpín (Modern Gaelic: Coinneach mac Ailpein)[1], commonly Anglicised as Kenneth MacAlpin and known in most modern regnal lists as Kenneth I (died 13 February 858) was king of the Dalraida Scots who conquered the Picts and, according to national myth, became first king of Scots, earning him the posthumous nickname of An Ferbasach, "The Conqueror".[2] Kenneth's undisputed legacy was to produce a dynasty of rulers who claimed descent from him. Even though he cannot be regarded as the father of Scotland, he was the founder of the dynasty which ruled that country for much of the medieval period."
Thank you.
(97.89.117.137 (talk) 
01:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kenneth MacAlpine was King of the Dalraida Scots who became King of Scots which was the combined Scots and Picts. 

message: The final sentence in the article reads "As the wife and mother of kings, when Máel Muire died in 913, her death was reported by the Annals of Ulster, an unusual thing for the misogynistic chronicles of the age."
Were the chronicles of the age actually misogynistic?  (i.e., woman hating)  Being misogynistic is (sometimes subtly) different from being patriarchal, or ignorant of women's contributions to society, which I suspect would be the case here. 70.27.3.13 (talk) 02:17, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: A minor question...

message: Just.. whats up with that? you guys seem to be debating his origins but one thing I think we can agree on, he was kickaz for uniting the realms into Alba, founding the clan system and founding a Scottish kingship that lasted around a thousand years. So.. why the foppery? The medieval depictions of him were much better in my opinion.
Dava4444 (talk) 06:29, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Overly Effeminate Painting of Kenneth

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've been aware of this book for some time:
*
I didn't think anyone would actually take it seriously or try to reference it in a Wikipedia article, except perhaps as an example of the extremes of Afrocentrism, in its frankly bizarre historical revisionism. It's a very peculiar book, self-published with childish illustrations. It absolutely is not an academic work and is as far removed from a WP:RS is it is possible to get. Nevertheless, it made its way into this article yesterday. The editor has a history of accusing people who revert his edits of doing so for reasons of right-wing ideology. Let me head that off by saying that no serious historian of the early medieval period in Scotland takes such a position, and they are overwhelmingly of a liberal persuasion. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 18:04, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Negro Rulers of Scotland and the British Isles 

message: Is 854 a significant year in the reign(s) of Mac Alpin?  In this book I find "854: Kenneth, King of Scots, becomes King of united Scots and Picts.":
* 
 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:40, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd treat that as an unreliable source, one of many books by amateur historians. 854 is in fact the year John of Fordun claimed Cináed mac Ailpin died and was succeeded by his brother Domnall mac Ailpín, but this is at odds with the contemporaneous Annals of Ulster, which we can view as being inherently more accurate. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 12:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  854?