Talk:Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey

message: What great office of state did he hold? john k 06:39, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Recently the file :File:Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey from NPG.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 13:30, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  New file [[:File:Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey from NPG.jpg]] 

message: There is a sentence in this article "He became Earl of Surrey in 1524 when his grandfather died and his father became Duke of Norfolk". I believe this is wrong. If it's not wrong it's exceptional to a degree that it should be backed up by a footnote. It is contradicted by Wikipedia's own article "Courtesy titles in the United Kingdom". When this article's subject's grandfather died, this article's subject's father BECAME Duke of Norfolk and Earl of Surrey, and, in some contexts, would be CALLED "Duke of Norfolk". The subject of this article would then be CALLED (from the moment his grandfather died), in some contexts, "Earl of Surrey" but he would not BE the Earl of Surrey. He would not go to the House of Lords in the costume and coronet of an Earl just because he was borrowing (for use in some contexts) the phrase "Earl of Surrey" from his father (but he might do exactly that if the Monarch created him Earl of Something Else in his own right, not via his father). I'd guess (unless someone with good credentials tells me otherwise) that he would not, just because he would in some contexts be CALLED "Earl of Surrey" be able to get a jury selected ONLY from the House of Lords when charged with a crime. The Wikipedia article "Courtesy titles in the United Kingdom" says that a person who has no noble titles of their own but only borrows one from a person to whom they are Heir Apparent is, legally, a commoner. There ARE Wikipedia articles that DO adhere to the idea that a living Heir Apparent BORROWS his predecessor's senior subsidiary title without HOLDING the title, while other articles ignore it, because Wikipedia does not recognize the need for experts in information-consistency who are not experts on the topics that the information is ABOUT.2604:2000:C6AA:B400:6CF9:3104:2109:6380 (talk) 12:03, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I meant to concede an exception before I signed off: Duke of Cornwall. At such time as a former Duke of Cornwall had been King A with a living son B who was then the current Duke of Cornwall with a living eldest son C of his own, the King A's grandson C did become Duke of Cornwall at the instant King A died. But as far as I know this is the only title where C can inherit when former title-holder A dies while intermediate-generation-member B still lives.2604:2000:C6AA:B400:6CF9:3104:2109:6380 (talk) 12:35, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Did he really become Earl of Surrey when his grandfather died? 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "CP":
From Thomas Howard, 8th Duke of Norfolk: 
From Richard Fitzalan, 4th Earl of Arundel: G. E. C. The Complete Peerage p. 244-245
From List of people who were beheaded: 
From Richard Wydeville (died 1441): 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT⚡ 22:38, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey]]