Talk:Criss Angel/Archive 1

message: Recently there has been a revert war between me and an anonymous user over whether or not to include his real name in the article.  I posted, "Please stop removing his given name and birthdate.  If it isn't factual, please discuss on the talk page first", and the anonymous user replied, "Well, we would except, no it isn't factual, Criss doesn't want this type of information out! His birthdate hasn't been confirmed, therefore, I think its best to wait until he tells the media something (yea, right) to gather the truthful facts (not something you just researched on the internet). So can you be one of the few (besides the Loyal) to respect his privacy and please stop posting it? - User:Someonewhocares" (Note that there is no User:Someonewhocares.)  His birthdate in in his IMDb listing.  Furthermore, an article on the website of Forbes Magazine gives his real name.  (Here is the link to that article.)  This is therefore publicly available and publicly verifiable information!  Listing the real name of a person who uses a pseudonym or who has changed their name is a perfectly valid thing to do in an encyclopedia article. --Idont Havaname 23:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I also recently looked for his birthdate on Google.  There is a site (amiannoying.com) that lists the birth year as 1967, but IMDb is listing it as 1968.  Since that appears to be disputed, and he doesn't give out the birth year (just the month and day), I have added some information to the article about this.  However, since Forbes has confirmed his birth name, and they are one of the most high-profile magazines in the U.S., his birth name is definitely information that has been made public. --Idont Havaname 23:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Generally speaking, if we know it, we include it.  In making articles here, we usually like to include whatever we'd find in a regular, printed encyclopedia.  So birth dates are fair game. --Idont Havaname 20:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

text: The same thing has been happening on IMDb. He has an official fan club called "The Loyal" who take it upon themselves to troll the internet trying to cleanse it of any reference to any information which has not been officially released by Angel, such as the fact he is married to Joanne Sarantakos, his birth date, his real name etc. This is meant to be an encyclopaedia, the information should stay.  Sarahe 01:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: His real name and birthdate

message: According to Public Records and Copyright Records,
Criss Angel's birthname is Christopher N. Sarantakos,
and his date of birth is December 19, 1967.
Source: copyright.gov - United States Copyright Office 
- Izzy Galvez 07:38, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't change your name to anything, I merely reverted your doubling up of information already listed here. Obviously "A Blind Dave" was the name provided on the earlier version. Sarah Ewart 02:51, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, I hope that my name isn't reverted back to "A Blind Dave". That's disrespectful, I posted this information originally. Well, I now know to be logged in when I post... Izzy Galvez 03:16, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I reverted the information because you provided identical information twice on this page and partly because IMDb message board threads are irrelevant to an encylopedia. That is why I reverted you and that is why your previous name came up. You might like to take note of: WP:AGF Sarah Ewart 03:20, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That thread was relevant and had an indepth explanation, but I understand your point, it was redundant, and basically needs no further explanation, it is a reliable source. I don't want you to think that I am blaming you, I understand it was reverted, and not intended to be disrespectful. Izzy Galvez 03:34, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thankyou. I agree the copyright information is a reliable source and I also agree (as you might have noticed elsewhere on this page) that verifiable information should be included, regardless of the claims by the Loyals. Sarah Ewart 04:19, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

text: This is an encylopedia, not Angel's personal webpage. If we have the information and it is verifiable, it should be included. Sarah Ewart 04:34, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Name and Birth Year

message: I have recently been told something disturbing for us of the Loyal reading this article. A friend of my moms has told me that the olny reason he can do what he does is because he is Satanic! Can someone out there help me to prove him wrong?
:Um, Angel is an illusionist...a magician...that's it. He's trying to make it interesting and intriguing so people want to tune in each week to watch and go out and buy his merchandise. That's all there is to it.Sarahe 01:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: Someone keeps inserting a link:  which links to a website which claims, amongst other things, that "Criss Angel, is actually the transcendentally illuminati form of the powerful mind-magician of earlier times, Rasputin." I'm removing it again, but it's something to keep an eye on.Sarahe 01:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Links

message: Not that I want to start a fight or anything, but the Loyals are pretty vocal about him not wanting to publicize his birth year. They scream at people (even other Loyals) for discussing such things (or at least they do on the official Loyal board), and consider anything that doesn't come straight from Criss' mouth a complete lie.
Just a thought...
Daya 00:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age 

message: Is there a reference for his birthday?  If not, it should be removed. --Mpeisenbr 18:17, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. If you would like to cite the source appropriately in the article,you can find the reference in the Talk Archive.- Izzy Galvez 01:47, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Birthday verification

message: I changed the phrase "People who are not professional magicians are strongly discouraged from performing these stunts." I feel omitting the word professional is necessary as surely what is important is whether you are a magician, not that you chose to make a career out of it. Perhaps it should be further changed to 'magician of great power' so as to discourage weak magicans from attemping such things. -125.253.17.93 07:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Professional and performing

message: Would the most popular fan sites of Criss Angel be appropriate to include in this article? I have seen that some were added in the past, but were removed from the external links. I am just curious about the requirements for External links. In the meantime, I will look at the rules and such for an answer. --Izzy Galvez 22:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have found that my questions are answered in the External links article.I edited the External links to include two of the most popular, and regularly maintained fan sites dedicated to Criss Angel - angelofillusion.net and mindfreakconnection.com. I also organized the External links to have sub-headers to separate the official websites from the other links.-- Izzy Galvez 23:16, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External links, fansites

message: I don't know if this is of any importance, but if his real surname is Sarantakos then he is of Greek descent (a Greek-American). Sarantakos is definetely a Greek surname and judging from the ending in -akos his ancestors came from the southeast (Lakonia) of the Peloponnese peninsula. Again, I don't know if this is of any importance. Kalambaki2 23:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes! Criss Angel has said many times that he is of Greek descent. Ofcourse, his father was Greek, and his mother is Greek as well. He has said that his mother was raised in Mystra, Greece, and that Greece holds a special place in his heart.It is not that significant, but I think it is great that you have made such a connection.-- Izzy Galvez 01:54, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lakonia, eh? I wonder if that makes him a Spartan. He should be entitled to wear a funny hat if it does. 09:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Concerning surname

message: Are you aware some of the people removing your information, are people that run those fan sites?  Just something to think about...-- preceding comment by 209.23.197.244
:They are a good resources of informative and miscellaneous information related to Criss Angel, and the External links to those web sites should stay. However, if they are removing information from this page, then it will be handled appropriately. One of the things one must be aware about Wikipedia, is that it is an Encyclopedia. If the information is verifiable, then the information should stay. Criss Angel's birth name and birth date have been confirmed and verified, and therefore, this information should stay. This has been discussed many times before.-- Izzy Galvez 04:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is irrelevant whether they run fan sites or not. They are vandals.  Sarah Ewart (Talk) 11:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: reads like an anvert -67.53.19.206 08:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "reads like an advert" that is, and forgot to sign in....sorry all DevoutHeretic 08:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Concerning fan sites...

message: I think Criss Angel (I could be wrong) uses in-camera or post effects to make his illusions seem so real. This, in my opinion, is not true magic in that ANYTHING can be done this way; I'd much rather prefer to watch an unedited video (meaning no special fx) of an illusion.
I 100% agree. I watched an "illusion" that was done inarguably through imaging and not real film, and the illusion required agreement from the "untrained" observer filmed to give a mystified reaction to the trick(s) when they full know that the intended trick isn't even happening before their own eyes.  Colour me pissed off he even has a TV show to do this sort of thing. Messatsu 02:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of CG / post-processing / camera effects

message: On Criss Angel's main site this is how he refers to his fans or something. I signed up, personally, but can't access this "Loyal Community" link, which I assume is some sort of forum. For whoever finds this, a link should be made directly to this Community since it is probably offsite, and a very separate aspect from his site, to be listed below it. Tyciol 04:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "The Loyal"

message: My Criss Angel site is www.crissangelmindfreak.freewebspace.com. I would like to have a link to this from the Criss Angel page.
129.71.212.176 16:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I Would Like a Website Link on the Criss Angel Page