Talk:Moldovan language/Archive 2

message: Some anonymous user is posting a long rant about this page and the revert war to various User Talk pages. I have blocked the IP address from editing temporarily, but I thought I would call attention to the fact that the user isn't making any friends for his argument this way. Much of the rant seems to be addressed at administrator Mikkalai and user Node. If either of these users want to see what was posted, please leave me a message on my talk page and I'll pass it along. If there is in fact a registered user hiding behind an anonymous IP to rant on userpages, such behavior will result in blocking and possible banning from editing Wikipedia. It looks like there is an attempt here to find reasonable consensus. If a user has a major problem with the content of this page that can't be handled here, I recommend requesting a peer review or arbitration. Don't take your case to random admin talk pages. Cheers. 23skidoo 15:16, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism to user pages

message: Node, I noticed that you are reverting the whole contributions of opponents. Please leave usefull parts.mikka (t) 16:06, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it was not exactly "my" :-) And I did not say that it was a malice from your side. All I was saying to both of you that thoughtless revert war may easily lead to deterioration of the article even in its correct parts. mikka (t) 18:10, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: No wholesale reverts

message: *All this article is wrong from the beginning. Such a thing does not exist. It should be state from the beginning that is a latin, identical with romanian language. Some examples are needed in order to be better understood this thing. I will look for examples. And by the way do you know that these days was formed a political party in Moldova whose first aim reunification of Moldova with Romania?
*Why do you all think that is this happenning? I will try to answear for you: because of the same language, same traditions, same religion, same people. This is one of the most important aspect that must be taken into consideration.
*I don't know if it was ever done this, but I have a suggestion: why not to redirect this direct to romanian?
*The majority of the people recognize that is about romanian the language they speak, then it was allready named as official language but after the Transnistrian war it was blackmaled by the Russia to admit and to change to moldovan.
*I am a professor of romanian language in Chişinău and I can say that we study after the same books from Romania, our writers, poest and so on, were all romanian of course.
*If you think I lie or something I invite you all to my highschool at a romanian teaching hour.
BRAVO! BRAVO!!! --Anittas 19:53, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you do. He is saying "such thing does not exist". This approach is good for a priest, but not for a professor. Let's not go in rounds here. mikka (t) 00:51, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Moldovan does not exist only in the mind of soviet people

message: :In Moldova, various diphthongs and diacritical characters, such as ş and ţ, are replaced by other letters in IM, chat, SMS and other such purposes by young people. In it, "ca", "că", "chi", "cî", "cu", "che", and "co" all use "k" rather than "c" or "ch"; official ţ and ş become "tz" and "sh", respectively, and diacritics are left off of ă and î. This also occurs, to an extent, in the Romanian language.
Node_ue, please explain why this belongs to this article and not to the Romanian alphabet, since it's a common feature. 
BTW, why to "to an extent" in Romanian? It's a rather common practice when you have no diacriticals around. We even had three Romanians that had their names with "tz" that edited this talk page: Gutza, Mihaitza and Danutz. (see the archive) :-) bogdan | Talk 00:04, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's quite obviously more common in Moldova. Despite the huge difference in internet users in Rep. Moldova and Romania, the numbers in usages of these online are not so different. Also, "y" often replaces î in rep moldova, and I don't think this is true in Romynia ;p. --Node 08:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Anyway, I'm removing it as original research. bogdan 16:41, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why? --Node 20:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  SMS/IM revised 

message: Please someone write the Daco-Romanian article. Now it is a redirect to Romanians, which is not correct logically. mikka (t) 00:55, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Daco-Romanian

message: :The term "Moldovan" is also used to refer to all Romanian-speakers from the former Principality of Moldavia (including those in Eastern Romania; for those in Moldova, see spoken language below).
Node_ue, what do you think it's wrong with that?  Talk 00:57, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "Moldovan language" refers to a language, NOT a group of people. If you have a problem with the fact that moldovan redirects here, then edit that article, not this one. --Node 08:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  The local variety of the Romanian part of Moldova is also called "Moldoveneşte" (-eşte is a suffix that indicates a language, like in Româneşte, Englezeşte, Ruseşte, etc.), just like other varieties ("graiuri") are Ardeleneşte, Munteneşte, Olteneşte, etc. bogdan 10:10, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  That information belongs on Moldovan or Moldovan dialect. How many people in Iasi refer to their speech as "limba moldoveneasca"? --Node 20:56, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moldovenii din Romania 

message: Hello to everyone – I came here in response to some messages posted/pasted on my user page. Frankly speaking, right now I do not have very deep idea about the exact nature of the issues. However, I would surely try to study the matter, and if possible would offer my comments. --Bhadani 15:52, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: My coming to this page

message: I see on this page lots of very established oppinions about Romanian, Moldovan, a.s.o. I am just curious, how many of you actually speak (or understand) this language? Please, detail what you mean by "understand/speak/write" and "not understand...". For instance, I know both. I am native Romanian, and I can speak Moldovan, as well as read and write it in both Latin an Cyrillic script. What I mean by "read and write" is that I easily read Moldovan (I even read some Moldovan history books from before 1989 in the original cyrillic), and that I can also write   in cyrillic (easily on a computer, less easily in hand writing, for I have not practiced a lot). By "speak" I mean that  I have been to Chisinau and had no problems of communication. I also have relatives there, and never had any problems communicating with them. I also had Moldovan colleagues during university, and no problems either. The accent is different from that of Bucharest, but not much different than that of Iasi. User:Dpotop
:I agree and find your request very good. But I also belive that Mark Williamson does not and will not speak romanian ever. He is too young, only 16 he is not yet a man. He is a kid for the moment. About Mr. Mikka he is russian and he doesn't speak a latin language yet. But coming to your question which I personally find very pertinent I speak romanian and I say it is identical with the one spoken in Moldova.
:: Each person willing to take place in this poll should only speak for his/herself. User:Dpotop
I'm a native Romanian from the Botosani county. I don't understand Cyrilic, nor do I want to. I speak with a slight Moldavian accent, but I disagree that our accent is not much different from those across the Prut. Those across the Prut are exagerating in their speech. There's too much Russian influence there, when there shouldn't be. --Anittas 16:30, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "A pastiche of Romanian and Russian argot"... this reminds me of arguments people used to use against Tok Pisin, saying "It's just bad English...", or with Haitian Creole that "they're just speaking broken French...", or for Metis "well it's just an unsophisticated pastiche of Cree and French...", whereas they have been evaluated as languages once people undertook more serious research about them. There are certain rules to "moldavskii limba". You can't just mix any Russian words with any Romanian words. Consonants do change in Rep Moldova from in Bucureshti. Obviously most of these are shared with neighbouring area of Romania, but does that means that there is separate language in Romania too? You said it means a separate language if many consonants change... well many consonants do change between Wallachian and Moldavian speeches. But I don't assert that the speech of Iashi and the speech of Bucureshti should be considered different languages because they are perfectly mutually intelligible. However "moldavskii limba", what you like to call a pastiche, is not intelligible to a Muscovian nor to a man from Iashi. When I said "tu eshti koncenii" to Dpotop, he was just confused until he looked up what "konchenij" means in Russian. But he was offended then, which is funny, because given the nature of language use in Moldova, "koncenii" has a much lighter meaning than in someplace Russia. The popular speech of urban and suburban (but certainly not rural) Moldova is the Moldovan equivalent to Trasianka and Surzhyk in Belarus and the Ukraine. Neither have been able to entirely escape the linguistic influences of Russian, and the same is certainly true in Moldova. If you go in Chisinau or Tighina (or Bender as young people call it -- yes, it's a Russian name, but that doesn't stop ppl from using it even speaking Romanian/Moldovan), you will meet lots of ppl who speak mostly just Russian, and you will see lots of ssigns which are in Russian and Moldovan together. Current intellectual situation in Moldova means that so far, there has been little formal study of the new speech variety which has formed from contact with Russia. The same is certainly true with Belarus and Ukraine, most intellectuals scoff at these speeches and studying them is largely taboo. Most webpages on them are written by non-linguists, and most of the little literature that is available is written by foreigners. In Moldova, it's used in the underground music scene in Chisinau, although using normal Russian is also common; in Belarus and Ukraine they use their mixed speeches in comedy and humour mostly. Now, I do not argue that the official langauage of Moldova and that of Romania are almost identical (in Moldova, technical terms are often calqued from Russian and would be confusing to Romanians), this is certain. But, I do think that in Moldova, the official language is an artificial foreign import based mostly on Wallachian forms, and ignoring the linguistic character of Moldova. Also, ppl like Anittas and Bogdan seem to want to pretend that "moldavskii limba" (or just "moldoveneshte", or "moldorusski" sometimes) just doesn't exist, and hide it completely from this page. If I said something in that, chances are Anittas would not know what it meant, despite his claims that it's just the identical to Romanian. --Node 15:50, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I find it quite interesting that you made such edits to the article. Some of them defy logic. There are minor vocabularic differences between the dialects of Ardeal, Wallachia, Moldavia, Maramuresh, etc., also some differences in other areas (for example some area might say "eu is foarte" in a dialectal way). Your assertion that Romanian has no dialects, nor is a dialect continuum, is entirely wrong and you have shown no reason why anybody should believe you. --Node 03:39, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: How many of you speak (or even understand) Romanian and/or Moldovan?

message: :Very good arguments on this page were added recently.
:1. The first one is the statement of the Prime-Minister of Romania in the today meeting with the Prime-Minister of Moldova. Romanian Prime-Minister said that "we have the same language, history and traditions".
:(For the russians this is a kick directly in the nose (or node)! 'cause they don't accept this thing)
:2. The comparasion given by Alex: indeed "Moldavian" is carbon copy of Romanian and I am supporting this argument.
Expresions like "carbon copy" do not suit encyclopedia. Not to say that it is false: carbon copy is not identical with the original; I don't think that you wanted to say that Moldovans speak inferior version of Romanian mikka (t) 22:10, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Moldavian" is '''carbon copy''' of [[Romanian]]

message: Accoroding to wikipedia rules of article talk pages, I will remove all future political rant that does not discuss the improvement of the article. What remains here clearly shows the attitudes, and any more of that will be waste of time of editors who work seriously on the improvement of the text. mikka (t) 22:03, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is not chat board