Talk:Hongwu Emperor

message: This article just skips to when he becomes an emperor without saying how he came about unifying the empire...no battles...no rivals, nothing?
--80.227.100.62 11:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is the info on what he did before becoming an emperor? 

message: In my copyedit I have normalized all occurrences of the emperor's name to "Hongwu", to conform to the article's current title. If this does not conform to Chinese practice someone please change it: but I'd suggest keeping it uniform, at least, as WadeGiles/pinyin and other spelling conflicts just confuse the text for non-Chinese readers.
--Kessler 00:14, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  copyedit "Hongwu" 

message: It would seem that it is erroneous to use an emperor's era or reign name in lieu of an actual name.  Take this quote from the article:
Historians consider Hongwu to be one of the greatest Emperors of China.  From the beginning, great care was taken by Hongwu to distribute land to small farmers.
While it is logical to refer to Ming Taizu as the "Hongwu emperor," the fact that his reign was named "Hongwu" does not make that his name.  The following is from F.W. Mote's Imperial China (900-1800) published 1999 by Harvard University Press:
In historical writings in Chinese we also find him referred to as "the Hongwu emperor," that name sometimes translated "Abundantly Martial," but that is in no sense his name.  It is the name of his reign period, his "era name," and while we may call him "the Hongwu emperor" (the one who reigned during the era named Hongwu) it is incorrect to call him "the Emperor Hongwu."
Referring to Ming and Qing emperors by their era or reign names is only logical because the Hongwu emperor established the practice of using exactly one name for an entire reign.  This is why earlier emperors can never be referred to by era name; their eras seldom spanned their entire rule.
So, is this nitpicking, is Mote himself in error (somehow I find the latter unlikely, but the possibility exists), or is this convention worth a second look?  I realize it would involve editing a lot of articles; a brief look at some Ming-related articles shows frequent occurrence of reign names being used in this manner (no doubt many Qing articles are this way as well).  Just wondering if this is significant enough to warrant so much work. -Yangrw 04:44, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are completely right but it is simply an unavoidable problem, given how complicated Chinese naming was during the imperial period. Do what you can to fix it. — LlywelynII 15:33, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The use of the Era name as the emperor's name 

message: Does anyone know anything about this guy's consort? Over at foot binding there's some tale about how his consort had big feet, and he killed the people who mocked her, or something. Any corroboration? ManicParroT 13:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consort 

message: The article says that China's population increase during the emperor's reign was
partly due to
: "New World foods such as corn and sweet potatoes, which entered China through the world trading system".
The emperor died in 1398, long before Columbus, and so I don't see how China could
have obtained corn and sweet potatoes by this time. Molinari (talk) 21:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I assure you that it is entirely and 100% erroneous; I have deleted that part of the sentence. Someone must have copied what I wrote from the main Ming Dynasty article under the sub-section of trade with Europe, 16th century trade that is.--Pericles of AthensTalk 06:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New world foods? 

message: This is all plagiarized from this site. http://www.ibiblio.org/chinesehistory/contents/06dat/bio.1imp.html#Hongwu%20Emperor%20of%20Ming pz out. 157.252.160.32 (talk) 20:09, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right: large chunks of texts are taken directly from that page. I don't know what is usually done in such cases. (Does anybody know?) One solution would be to borrow some content from the page on the Ming Dynasty, which is well written and well-referenced, and has a lot of material on the Hongwu emperor. Any thoughts? --Madalibi (talk) 02:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism 

message: Not to be offensive to 5th grade intellegiance, but the sentence structure and content of this article needs work to make it more "encyclopedic"--Tangerine!(also known as ashpotter) (talk) 06:28, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sounds like the history report of a 5th grade student... 

message: This reference is probably referring to Du Bian Xin Shu (杜骗新书)by Zhang Yingyu (張應俞). The title translates very loosely as "New Stories of Tricksters and Cheats." It is a collection of stories about "24 Types" of merchant hucksters during the Ming Dynasty. It is sometimes sold as juvenile literature. I am unaware of an English translation.
Aikailoo (talk) 08:18, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tu Pien Hsin Shu,[citation needed] 

message: Who put Xiao Cigao?  His wife and one and only empress during his reign was the famous Empress Ma, known as Ma Chunxiang (1333-1382).  Xiao Cigao wasn't ethnic Han and lived during the Qing dynasty 2-3 centuries later.  Someone needs to double-check basic historical Wikipedian "facts".  Jsw663 (talk) 13:00, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Minor update, added Empress Ma's posthumous name Xiao Ci.  Maybe someone confused the two empresses.  Jsw663 (talk) 13:13, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zhu Yuanzhang's wife (spouse) 

message: Why is it that in the article, Ming Dynasty, Hongwu means "vastly martial" while in this one it means "great military power"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.205.3.81 (talk) 10:51, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been changed to "vastly martial" to maintain consistency with Ming Dynasty. 暗無天日  contact me (聯絡) 13:20, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hongwu 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.sevencups.com/about-tea/black-tea/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Dana boomer (talk) 23:41, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: yusuf chang and bai shouyi essentially got the claim that hongwu was muslim from an urban legend in the hui community. Also, i could only find two books regarding guo zhixin and the "muslim" rebel group along with empress ma's ancestors. One of them was a malay translation of the other english version, published by institute for southeast asian studies. yusuf never provided primary sources for his claim that he was a muslim, he basically said that he was muslim without offering evidence, just pointing out to the fact that hongwu built some mosques for hui people, and he claimed himself to be descended from a ming princess. Building mosques for muslims does not mean that you are a muslim. Many non muslim leaders like Roger II of Sicily weree islamophiles and had muslim in their armies and introduced muslim culture to their courts, roger even had the hijiri date on his mantle, but they weren't muslim. During the qing dynasty, which was not muslim either, muslim generals served in high ranks, and also during the republic of china. The Taipei Grand Mosque w designed by a non muslim and built by the non muslim government of the Republic of China.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Guo+zhixin+zhu+yuanzhang&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1
More rigorous sources, preferably from a university press should be used for claims like these. They were all urban legends akin to those claiming Ataturk was a crypto jew before Yusuf chang wrote them down.
Also in every other source Empress Ma Chunxiang is mentioned as an ethnic han, nothing about alleged muslim ancestry. Having the surname Ma does not make one automatically a muslim in china, there were han chinese Mas before muslims took the name, ans in every aource/biography of Zhu Yuanzhang, it always mentions his times as a monk at the buddhist monastery when he became 16 and lost his family.
No other source even mentions Guo Zhixin or his alleged muslim rebel group, couldn't find them anywhere, nor could i find them on any accounts of empress ma or of Guo being Ma's guardian.
Mendsetting (talk) 03:15, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: islam

message: As an editor pointed out above (but non-sinophile editors will need constant reminding), "Hongwu" isn't the name of anyone. The Chinese names during this period were pretty damned complex and certain names were OK or verboten with certain people; once you become emperor, your personal name was pretty much off limits for any purpose.
This rebel leader didn't name himself Hongwu; he named his reign the Time of Hongwu. "Hongwu" was the name of his era, so he is "the Emperor of the Hongwu era" or "The Hongwu Emperor", but not "Hongwu", "Emperor Hongwu", or "Hongwu the Emperor". 
It's a little nitpicky, but since this is his wiki page, people interested in the topic will be coming by and we should do what we can to keep it correct. — LlywelynII 15:42, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: The Hongwu Emperor, never Hongwu or Emperor Hongwu

message: Formal papers in English used Wade for the longest time, sure, but it's pretty uncommon to refer to this guy as Hung-wu Ti now. I included all the Wade variants in the metatext at the bottom of the page so that it's available for people searching for it, but it's not like Lao-tse or Taoism where the old use is very firmly established in the general public. Therefore, I removed all the Wade names from the intro text. If anyone feels strongly they should go back in, kindly do some googleh-foo to back up that the name remains in common use and post it here. — LlywelynII 15:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Wade

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=tyhT9SZRLS8C&pg=PA229#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 23:54, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  vietnam policy 

message: Koko Temur (Wang Baobao) had a Chinese father and a Turkic mother (probably a Buddhist Uighur) and she belonged to Semu class and came from a pro-Mongol family, being the sister of Chagan Temür. Koko was elevated to the status of a Mongol for his loyalty in fighting against Chinese rebels. The Hongwu Emperor married Koko Temur's sister to his own brother Zhu Shuang after capturing her.
http://books.google.com/books?id=SQWW7QgUH4gC&pg=PA522#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=1M5wAAAAMAAJ&q=Koko+Temur+sister&dq=Koko+Temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OVdKUtmgNJi14APM64GgBw&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBA
http://books.google.com/books?id=aU5hBMxNgWQC&pg=PA23&dq=Koko+temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k9KUqGHHZK-4AOSw4GIBg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Koko%20temur%20sister&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=tyhT9SZRLS8C&pg=PA128&dq=Koko+temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k9KUqGHHZK-4AOSw4GIBg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Koko%20temur%20sister&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=Fo4wAQAAIAAJ&q=Koko+temur+sister&dq=Koko+temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k9KUqGHHZK-4AOSw4GIBg&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAg
http://books.google.com/books?ei=91JKUqGlB8b54AOGoIDYDQ&id=Fo4wAQAAIAAJ&dq=Another+brother%2C+Chu+Shuang%2C+married+the+sister+of+Koko+Temur+%28d.+1375%29+at+a+time+when+Chu+Yuan-+chang+was+soliciting+his+support+in+the+struggle+against+the+Mongols.+Koko+Temur+decided+against+supporting+Chu%27s+cause%2C+however%2C+and+Chu+...&q=Koko+temur+sister#search_anchor
04:28, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hongwu's brother Zhu Shuang 

message: When the guy's single most famous policy passes unlinked, let alone unremarked, and the section on Japanese pirates passes on their majority Chinese nature completely unremarked, and the Hongwu Emp's policy on them is treated as blustering but effective... well... I've linked the relevant articles and found a source for the actual story, but obviously someone is pushing POV edits on the article. Kindly restore them until they grow bored and leave the actual history up. — LlywelynII 15:23, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Haijin]]

message: Also note that the Chinese text is already dealt with in a series of infoboxes. Per , that means we don't repeat it again in the lead.
Really, the guy needs a full #Name section walking people through how to talk about him, what the different names mean, &c. — LlywelynII 16:42, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Chinese

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Hongwu Emperor. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://rwxy.tsinghua.edu.cn/xi-suo/lsx/Learning/meeting2004/Complete/zhuhonglin.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120301140452/http://www.longhoo.net/gb/longhoo/ilovenj/oldstreet/userobject1ai111168.html to http://www.longhoo.net/gb/longhoo/ilovenj/oldstreet/userobject1ai111168.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110920040800/http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/ics/journal/papers/issue45/p097-140.pdf to http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/ics/journal/papers/issue45/p097-140.pdf
*Added  tag to http://203.195.158.104:8086/Index/show/book_id/925
*Added  tag to http://www.tmallze.com/html/no05_171797.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:33, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Hongwu Emperor. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160104170740/http://www.literature.org.cn/Article.aspx?ID=12135 to http://www.literature.org.cn/Article.aspx?ID=12135
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111003231824/http://www.stnn.cc:82/arts/200702/t20070201_453086.html to http://www.stnn.cc:82/arts/200702/t20070201_453086.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110916065236/http://app.hzxc.gov.cn/mh_template/content_template/article_display.jsp?article_id=20061128000168 to http://app.hzxc.gov.cn/mh_template/content_template/article_display.jsp?article_id=20061128000168
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:25, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Hongwu Emperor. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111004141105/http://www.studa.net/lishi/080801/17542093.html to http://www.studa.net/lishi/080801/17542093.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:07, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: He had seven older siblings, several of whom were "given away" by his parents, as they always had enough food to support the family
Should this be "so they always had enough"? The current wording doesn't make sense. If they had enough food, why would they give away children? — ʀoyoтϵ 04:48, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  /* Early life */ confusing wording