Talk:Warren, St. Croix County, Wisconsin

message: I live in Warren and there is no town of Warren. It's country with smaller villages forming around Roberts, Wisconsin. How can you call Warren a town? It's not. It's a township that governs itself! (69.58.137.80; previously unsigned)
:In the state of Wisconsin, "towns" are the same as townships in other states, that is to say they are self-administering subdivisions of the county.  There is no such thing as a township in Wisconsin.  The town of Warren is listed on page 765 of the Wisconsin Blue Book, the official guide to Wisconsin government.  --BaronLarf 18:15, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
Something is wrong with it. A Town is a lot of houses grouped together. Houses in Warren, WI are spread out with multiple house lots in different spots.
Roberts, WI is the village correct? We both know that. Warren is the township of Roberts because some dumbass refused to call it Township of Roberts! GET IT! It's probably the last remaining township in Wisconsin. --RenegadevikingLarf 8:28AM UTC)
:Why then does the website say "Town of Warren" and not "Township"? HollyAm 02:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if you are misunderstanding things. It is my understanding that in Wisconsin, as BaronLarf explains, above a "township" is called a "town." Think of it as being more efficient (4 letters vs. 8!), but we are talking about the same thing (po-tay-toe vs. po-tah-toe). There is a whole list of towns in Wisconsin and all of them are talking about something more like "townships" and not "cities" or "villages". There are two references on this talk page (the Blue Book, which has been through many revisions, and Warren's own website) suggesting that the preferred wordage is "town". If you want to change it to "township", then you will need to provide references to the contrary. Thanks. HollyAm 19:05, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, "town"s in Wisconsin are not the same as townships in other states, simply because the administrative meaning of "township" varies from state to state in which it is used.  In some states, townships are convenient subdivisions used primarily only by surveyors, with no real administrative function.  (See Township (United States))  Wisconsin's towns are defined legally, not vernacularly, and that's where "Renegadeviking" seems to be having a problem.  In the vernacular, even in Wisconsin, Wisconsin towns are frequently referred to as "townships", but they are legally known only as towns.  For example, I live in the Town of Washington, which is what I tell people, if they ask what part of "town" (Eau Claire area) I live in... and if they say "where's that?", I tell them "it's the township directly south of the city limits (distinguishing, by "city limits", between the legal meaning of "city", and the vernacular meaning, which means simply "a collection of houses and whatnot, bigger than a (vernacular) town").  It's all very confusing (or not so much), but WP is constrained to use the terminology on the books, not in the vernacular.  The fact that Wisconsin "town"s are similar to "township"s elsewhere, is spelled out fairly clearly in civil township... (un)interestingly enough, they are also called "town"s in New England and New York... TomerTALK 00:58, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

text: That's all well and good, but WP is constrained to use the legal definition of municipalities, not the vernacular.  A note could be inserted in the civil township article indicating that (at least in Wisconsin), they are called "townships" in the vernacular, but it is inappropriate to change the usage in Wikipedia because of the vernacular, which would be classified as a change based on something included in Wikipedia's definition and prohibition of original research.  We're not discussing here what the definition of "township" vs. "town" is, based on the number of cows per square mile, but whether or not it's appropriate for WP to decide that the state of Wisconsin has a right to call its minor civil divisions by whatever legal name it wishes to.  If we take a position to that effect, we're not only violating WP:NOR, but WP:NPOV.  Cheers, from Eau Claire County's Town of Washington, and yes, I live in a township. Tomertalk 22:32, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Maybe you should put up a sign.  :-)  About 3 blocks south of my house, there's a sign that says "Welcome to the Town of Washington".  The issue here is that the legal meaning of "town" (and "village", for that matter), in Wisconsin, is different from their vernacular meaning, even in Wisconsin.  As I've said previously, WP is constrained to use the legal term.  Similarly, nobody in Wisconsin would use the term "village" to describe Menomonee Falls, with its 32k+ people, yet legally it is a village, and so we have to call it a village on WP.  If you go to the Warren Town Hall (note, not Township Hall), you'll see the sign there doesn't say "Township of Warren".  Tomertalk 01:18, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Please review WP:NPA.  In an effort to stop this from becoming an edit war, I am sending emails to both the Town of Warren's Town Clerk Deina Shirmer, and the state of Wisconsin's Attorney General, requesting clarification of the Town's name and status, as well as the status of Towns within the governmental framework of the state of Wisconsin.  See the following section for echoes of the relevant emails sent, as well as (hopefully), the responses received.  Tomertalk 09:20, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does anyone know where the town of Warren is?