Talk:Yakut language

message: The correct term for question words that do not move is in-situ, not in-site.  I'm going to change back the edit made by the anonymous contributor. Straughn 15:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: In-Situ vs. In-Site

message: I'm going to remove the citation needed by the 'used only in Russian loan words' bit in the alphabet section.  It seems to me that place names and personal names are spelled as in Russian in order to conform to official standards.  Per Krueger, Russian-specific letters are used only in Russian loans, regardless of whether they're proper nouns or common nouns. Straughn 14:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for clarification.  I seem to have indeed confused genuine Sakha names with their Russian normalizations (which heavily rely on the letter "ё").  Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:35, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem.  I know in some instances the Russian transliteration of non-Russian words will use ё for the /ø/ sound and ю for the /y/ sound. Straughn 19:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of which, you wouldn't by any chance have the actual guidelines for normalization of the Sakha language into Russian on hand?  I remember once seeing the 1970s geodesic and mapping guidelines just for that, but I'm unable to find them online (I doubt they are even available online; plus I'm not sure what they are called).  Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:20, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid not.  I just base what I know about transliteration in Russian on Russian place names that I recognize as being Sakha. Straughn 20:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem.  I just thought I'd ask.  Thanks anyway!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Place Names, Personal Names

message: Can someone render Belem Buol (Be Prepared), the Scout Motto, into Sakha script? Thanks! Chris 20:17, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Бэлэм буол --Saaska (talk) 15:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sakha Scouting

message: The names of the letters are Komi alphabet... It should be edit.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.35.120.43 (talk) 12:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. — N-true (talk) 16:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sakha alphabet

message: Uber die Sprache der Jakuten, Theil 1: Einleitung. Jakutisceer Text. Jakutische Grammatik. (1851)
https://archive.org/details/rosettaproject_sah_morsyn-1
Uber die Sprache der Jakuten, Theil 2: Jakutisch-Deutsches Worterbuch (1851)
https://archive.org/details/rosettaproject_sah_vocab-1
Rajmaan (talk) 03:44, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uber die Sprache der Jakuten 

message: Yakut Genesis Translation
https://archive.org/details/rosettaproject_sah_gen-1
Rajmaan (talk) 03:46, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yakut Genesis Translation 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Yakuts which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 13:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: I marked the Vowel harmony section for expansion.  Within Turkic languages, Sakha vowel harmony is doubly interesting: it involves rounding harmony of low vowel (unlike all other Turkic languages), and Sakha has diphthongs which harmonize based on the first vowel of the diphthong.  I'm happy to write the section on vowel harmony when I have some free time.  (User talk:Biktor627) 22:59 EST, 22 March 2022  — Preceding undated comment added 03:02, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The first draft has been completed.  It needs some cleaning up, but it's a start. Biktor627 (talk) 05:22, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vowel harmony system needs more explanation 

message: I cannot find a source that states that the дь is a palatal affricate //, nor that ч is //.  This is a rather narrow level of phonetic detail for there to be no citation given.  They are typically described as alveo-palatal affricates [] and [], which are (unfortunately quite Anglocentrically) considered to be the broader transcription of post-alveolar affricates.Biktor627 (talk) 02:22, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: re this issue, this extends also to the vowels, specifically the diphthongs, which are transcribed as , , , and .  While this, to my ear, seems to be accurate to how they are pronounced (with the caveat that speakers I've talked with do not produce [], but rather []), such an incredible degree of precision needs a citation.  I have opted to use a narrower transcription in the vowel section, though I left the original in an HTML comment. Biktor627 (talk) 19:51, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phonemes are transcribed way too narrowly--need a citation  

message: At risk of getting on everybody's nerves, I'm considering proposing another Move request to change the name of the article from Yakut language to Sakha language, but I'm undecided.  Before doing so, I'd value some conversation about it.
# Points in favor of changing to Sakha
## Sakha is the endonym, and is the name used by native Sakha linguists when discussing the language in English.
## glottolog uses Sakha.
## The iso 639-3 code is sah
## In recent years, the name Sakha seems to be picking up steam, actually overtaking Yakut.  You can see this on the following Ngrams:
### Ngram for Yakut language vs. Sakha language
### Ngram for Sakha vs. Yakut
### Ngram for Sakha people vs. Yakut people
## A potential counterargument, that because Yakut is the previously most-common name, if you choose to use Sakha you still have to specify Yakut for those who don't know.  However, this argument holds no weight, as it's essentially the same as what we have now: it's either Sakha (aka Yakut) or Yakut (aka Sakha).
## Linguistics literature in the past two or so decades has converged on plain Sakha or Sakha (Yakut) (unfortunately difficult to sort google scholar as it doesn't allow you to sort by citations)
# Points in favor of keeping the name as Yakut
## WALS uses Yakut (though it also considers it Altaic it so take that as you will 😉)))
## English-language Turkologists tend to use Yakut, though the reason given is not always strong.  For example, in the 2021 edition of Johanson and Csató's handbook The Turkic Languages, they choose Yakut over Sakha for the following reason:
### "Given the considerable and confusing variation in the practices of writing names of Turkic peoples and languages, the forms of those names have been unified, e.g. Kirghiz instead of Kyrgyz, Azeri instead of Azerbaijanian or Azerbaijani, and Yakut instead of Sakha." (p. xvii, frontmatter)
#### (my take:)Indeed, naming practices in Turkic languages is confusing (Füyü Kyrgyz is not a dialect of Kyrgyz; Old Uyghur is not the direct ancestor of modern Uyghur), but Sakha versus Yakut are really not really on a par with things like Kyrgyz vs. Kirghiz, Azeri and all its variants: Sakha vs. Yakut it is not a morphological or spelling variant, but are rather entirely different root.
## Some Ngrams aren't as clear cut as the above:
### Sakha word versus Yakut word just baaarely has Sakha winning in recent years
### Sakha grammar versus Yakut grammar, there are no hits for Sakha grammar
# Points I'm not sure about
## Yakut does not appear to be pejorative, unlike some other exonyms.  Nevertheless, it seems that Sakha seem to suggest that using an exonym partially overwrites their identity (simply review some of the other exchanges on this talk page).
## Sakha and Yakut are actually cognates historically (see Sakha#Etymology).
## Names like Yakutian knife, Yakutian cattle, Yakutian horse.  I don't think this really matters, but it's a point.
I'd love to get some discussion going about this.Biktor627 (talk) 07:17, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Considering proposing yet another Move Yakut language -> Sakha language 

message: This page has been translated into Māori and the translated page needs to be linked: https://mi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reo_H%C4%81kuti Thomas Norren (talk) 09:30, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: done Thomas Norren (talk) 21:56, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Māori translation