Talk:The X Factor (British TV series) series 4

message: An encyclopedia would not, normally, have a separate entry for every series of a television show.  If this is to be a trend then it should become standard practice for every television series, in the interest of consistency.  Unless Wikipedia is to become even more a vehicle for cheap, easy media advertising the articles should be combined.
==Wikipedia is, clearly, a publicity vehicle at least as much as an 'encyclopaedia'.  This is inevitable with only an untrained, amateur band of volunteers as 'editors'.  Tht is not to say that some editors might well be competent, but many more, in my experience, would seem to be driven by a desire to do, or be something important rather than being qualified or capable of taking high quality editorial decisions.  
Whilst it is a laudable aim that the masses could create an encyclopaedia, it is only to be expected that the quality of the result will inevitably be on a par with that of television programmes, books, magazines, etc. produced to appeal to a mass audience rather than an educated one.  Which is not to say that in many areas that are not obviously related to self-motivated publicity (e.g. arts, technology, sciences) there won't be many very good 'quick reference' articles that can also serve as a jumping-off point for deeper research.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.141.129 (talk) 07:28, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Encyclopedia or easy publicity?

message: I was just wondering whether we could get away with naming an end date for this series. Series 2 started on 20 Aug and ended 17 Dec 2005. Series 3 started on 19 Aug and ended on 16 Dec 2006. Series 4 will start on 18 Aug, and, seeing as there will still be 12 constestants, is likely to end 15 Dec 2007. This is also very likely because the winner needs about a week/a week and a half for a chance of their single reaching Christmas no. 1. I know there's no primary/secondary source for this information, but there is a rationale for this forecast. Wiki edit jonny 19:07, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't add it without a source. — AnemoneProjectors (?) 22:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, no worries. Wiki edit jonny 10:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  End date for series 4 

message: It turns out that we were wrong about the 14-24s being split into male and female categories. Now, a 14-16s category will go head-to-head with the already established categories (16-24s, 25s+ & Groups). Simon says it himself at the ITV Autumn launch: "...bringing in the 14-16 year olds as a new category, it's freshened the whole thing up'. Interview can be watched here: http://www.itv.com/?vodcrid=crid://itv.com/2929  NOTE: The video will load eventually after an advert. Wiki edit jonny 19:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder why he said that when it in fact has been split into male/female 14-25s (as confirmed on the programme itself). — AnemoneProjectors (会話) 12:16, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  14-16s category 

message: Hello, I've just created a seperate page proposing guidlines for noteability of Reality TV contestants and if they should have their own articles. I did this due to the mass number of articles being created and deleted on these subjects in recent months, and confusion among editors if they are in fact noteable or not. You can read this here. All edits and comments on the talk page are welcome. Thanks, Dalejenkins |  16:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reality TV star noteability guidelines

message: I think something should be added to the article about the rude auditionee Rachel. Here is a link  to a video on YouTube showing her. Sector X 08:33, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Er...why? Dalejenkins |  16:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rude Auditionee 

message: I recently reverted the edits made by User 86.133.242.128, saying that the changes 'don't particularly add value to the article and "merely" is not an objective word' (see article's history page ). This User's edit can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_X_Factor_%28UK_series_4%29&diff=155541445&oldid=155540639.
The User then undid my reversion, giving these reasons: '(1) Move sentence to improve flow and reduce choppiness. (2) "Upped" does not need qotes. (3) "named" is not idiomatic in this sense. (4) Colon unnecessary here'. This User's edit can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_X_Factor_%28UK_series_4%29&diff=155698845&oldid=155601804.
1. My view on the matter is that moving the sentence doesn't improve the 'flow' at all. It elongates the sentence unecessarily by adding an 'and...' which just makes the sentence look as though it goes on and on, it is also quite clumsy editing.
2. 'Upped' does need inverted commas (not 'quotes') because to 'up' something is not a verb in the dictionary and therefore needs to be in inverted commas to express this.
3/4. The latter two reasons I am happy with (even if they are a little pedantic).
I would like to know what others think on this matter. Jonny - Wiki edit Jonny 14:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you on 1 but as for number 2, see wikt:up the ante (definition 2). — AnemoneProjectors (会話) 19:39, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, an exception can be made in the case of 'to up the ante'. I'll buy that. Jonny - Wiki edit Jonny 20:53, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding (1), the problem is that the sentence "There has also been more emphasis placed on the international standing of The X Factor" promises to impart some new information, but actually seems to just repeat what's already been said in the previous two sentences. The only way this structure works is if a distinction is made between "international standard" and "international standing", and that distinction does not come across clearly enough. Matt 01:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't feel that the sentence doesn't impart anything new. It says in the next sentence that it is 'the biggest talent competition in Europe'. That is what the sentence about international standing refers to. Even further down, it talks about the increased number of international contestants on the show. Sorry for taking about a month to reply... literally! Wiki edit Jonny 15:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes made by User 86.133.242.128 on 04/09/2007 to The X Factor (UK series 4)  

message: Just wondering what we're going to do with the layout once the live shows start. For series 3 we have "Bootcamp", "Finalists", "Results summary" and "Live show details". For this series we have "Stages", which includes "Bootcamp" and "Live shows", so where are the "Finalists" and "Results" sections going to go? I'd like the "Finalists", "Results summary" and "Live show details" sections to be in that order if possible as it makes sense to have them in that order. — AnemoneProjectors (会話) 14:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Layout 

message: Simon Cowell was reported to be seeking a larger venue for the live shows, previously filmed at The Fountain Studios in Wembley. First on Cowell's list is said to be Elstree Studios in Hertfordshire.
: I can see its a different studio, but is it still at The Fountain Studios? Jinxed - talk 16:49, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, The Fountain Studios Website has a video of the new stage being built. Jinxed - talk 16:54, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Studios 

message: BBC and ITV are both reporting this, the official press release is here -
http://www.xfactor.tv/news/article/?scid=188 86.21.74.40 15:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks but it's already in the article :) anemone|projectors 15:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emily caught on cam happy slapping - quits show 

message: Having been reverted again, I'm bringing this here. Should the results summary be in order of oldest first, or newest first? The other series are all newest first, it was changed during series 3, see Talk:The X Factor (UK series 3)#Elimination table. anemone|projectors 13:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They didn't release the votes that year. I've changed it to safe. –AnemoneProjectors– 23:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Results summary order 

message: I think something needs to be done about the users who insist on changing Mick Jackson to The Jackson 5 (or the like). I propose we semi-protect the page as the users aren't members of Wikipedia. Any objections? Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 23:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: None. Head to WP:RPP and do so. Gscshoyru (talk) 23:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll just protect it. It'll be quicker :) anemoneIprojectors 23:21, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, I've already posted an RPP request, shall I delete it? Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 23:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Damn, these guys are efficient! It's already noted as 'Already Protected' on the RPP page. Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 23:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mick Jackson 

message: "Acts are usually tutored by a celebrity coach linked to that theme".
Is this a bit strong? "Tutoring" and "coaching" to me imply that the celebrities spend a significant amount of time -- at least a couple of hours -- with each of the contestants, but from only ever watching the main show I get the impression that they just do a quick photo-call with each of them. I know that they do comment very briefly on the rehearsals, but does this amount to "tutoring"? Or is there a lot more to it that's not aired on the main show? Matt 00:02, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, coaches actually go through the acts' songs with them and give them tips. Guests don't offer any one-on-one advice to the acts and just do a performance on the results show. Leona and Shayne were just guests because they don't have enough experience to be giving sessions with the acts. With the coaches, it's a difficult one with regards to tense. Michael Jackson and Kylie Minogue have yet to appear on the show, though they are confirmed. I thought I would use 'were' because it's not time-senstive and would save us having to go through it at the end, when changing all the tenses. Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 10:06, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, that makes sense. I was having a muddled moment! Matt 02:05, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Celebrity "coaches"? 

message: Shouldn't it be mentioned that the deadlock on the 24th November show was brought about by Sharon wanting a deadlock rather than actually voting for the act she wanted to go. I feel this is show when she said: "I am doing this for a reason and when I say who I am voting for you will see this reason". or words to that affect.
This is partly for discussion and partly because I cannot make the edit not being a member and all.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.80.172 (talk) 00:08, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it might be worth mentioning that. anemoneIprojectors 01:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know it's late, but yes, I agree. Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 12:11, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added it last night. anemoneIprojectors 14:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deadlock 

message: The whole situation with Mick Jackson is getting a little out of hand. One/some individual(s) have decided to take the issue to another level by editing the section to say 'Jackson Five' adding in hidden script, 'IF YOU THINK IT WAS MICK JACKSON THAT MADE THIS SONG FAMOUS, YOU MUST BE ON DRUGS'. I don't think it's fair on genuine users to just semi-protect the page again, and it obviously doesn't work as these people are still making this edit. I'd like to know what everybody else thinks. Cheers — Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 23:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If the page is semi-protected, genuine users can log in, or request edits here on the talk page using . However, reverting isn't a problem at the moment (just stay calm), as it's not being changed often. If it gets bad, then we can semi-protect. anemone│projectors 00:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Michael Jackson will be appearing as a special guest, but he will not be performing a song. In fact, it will be Kylie Minogue. 172.189.71.86 (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 02:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Which one was Michael Jackson then? anemone│projectors 00:07, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit dispute: Mick Jackson 

message: I think Same Difference should have their own page, Leon and Rhydian do. 81.159.61.215 (talk) 23:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Leon has a page because he's now released a single. I disagree that Rhydian should have a page. Same Difference are even less deserving of a page than Rhydian. If they ever release an album or single, or get a television presenting job, then they can have an article. anemone│projectors 00:06, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: User:AnemoneProjectors is being an objective and unbiased editor. Far from disliking the group he has been supporting them all along. Ros0709 (talk) 21:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Why don't you redirect that stub back to this article and then sandbox an article for Same Difference? They'll probably get a contract to record Disney soundtracks or something in the next couple of months and will have plenty of notability beyond being second-runners-up. Brad (talk) 22:22, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I redirected the new article back here as they're just not notable at the moment. And I am being objective and unbiased, as Ros0709 said. I supported them to win. They didn't though, and they're not releasing an album or single yet, but if they ever do, then they should have an article. If the page is recreated, I'll take it to AFD to gain concensus from the Wikipedia community. anemone│projectors 22:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone created Same Difference (Sibling Duo) and someone else redirected it. I'd just like to say that, even though an article SHOULD NOT be created at this time, the correct article name would be Same Difference (duo) (lower case d). anemone│projectors 00:08, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was also Same Difference (singing duo) a few days ago. anemone│projectors 00:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Same Difference? 

message: Under "Former Judges" on the right-hand banner, it says that Ben Sheppard was on ITV1 when I believe he was on ITV2.  I don't know how to change that, so hopefully somebody else does.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe dawg 9 (talk • contribs) 21:15, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's my fault, thanks for pointing it out. I've fixed it. anemone│projectors 23:03, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ben Sheppard 

message: Considering there's a scandal brewing with Ofcom now officially investigating it's rather typically asinine Wiki to lock this article so viewers can't get the latest news and more mature contributors cannot provide it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.5.3.48 (talk) 15:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then let's thank our lucky stars that Wikipedia is not a news agency. Brad (talk) 15:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rigged

message: I think during the live shows, Niki was actually the oldest contestant and not Beverley. Beverly was 32years (not 38) and Nikki 34.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.0.126 (talk) 17:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The X Factor website says she was 37 at the start of the live shows. anemone│projectors 20:38, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Beverley's age

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:XFactorTitles.jpg

message: I would like to know what everybody thinks about unprotecting the page as it's been 2 months since the show finished. I am sure the hype has run out by now, seeing as there has also been little in the press about the show, although I should never say never. Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 13:32, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I'm sure it'll be fine. I'll unprotect it. If the war on Mick Jackson starts again I'll reprotect, but it should be ok now. anemone│projectors 13:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request unprotection 

message: DO THEY NOW DESERVE A PAGE OF THEIR OWN???Jonni Boi 19:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Same Difference has a single coming out!!! (also some discussion on hope) 

message: I heard on my local news that Beverley Trotman was nominated for a MOBO award this year, but I can't find any news source about it... does anyone have a reliable source so this can be added? AnemoneProjectors 17:16, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beverley Trotman 

message: If anyone has details of the final showdown please feel free to add them --MSalmon (talk) 15:27, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Repeating the songs performed earlier, so we never included it. Do you think we need to put this in? –AnemoneProjectors– 16:03, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final showdown details 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:The X Factor (UK series 10) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 13:15, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on The X Factor (UK series 4). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 09:19, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on The X Factor (UK series 4). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://www.utvlive.com/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=13284&pt=e
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071025030201/http://www.nowmagazine.co.uk:80/bigbrother/Simon_Cowell_admits_staring_at_Dannii_Minogues_bum_article_150881.html to http://www.nowmagazine.co.uk/bigbrother/Simon_Cowell_admits_staring_at_Dannii_Minogues_bum_article_150881.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on The X Factor (UK series 4). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nowmagazine.co.uk/bigbrother/Simon_Cowell_admits_staring_at_Dannii_Minogues_bum_article_150881.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.availableforpanto.com/2007/10/the_x_factor_cowell_calls_show.html
*Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/5lqckWgs4?url=http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/obb/prog_cb/obb108/bb108.pdf to http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/obb/prog_cb/obb108/bb108.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified