Talk:David Beatty, 1st Earl Beatty

message: So, was he born in Ireland or Cheshire? (One web page says Howbeck, Cheshire, other Nantwich, Cheshire) Pibwl 16:54, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The entry in the Dictionary of National Biography by the editor of The Beatty Papers" has him being born in Cheshire.  I'll have a look in Roskill's "intimate biography" later today.  Harlsbottom (talk) 10:37, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I think we can regard ODNB (which says Howbeck Lodge) as the most authoritive source unless anyone thinks strongly otherwise. Dormskirk (talk) 20:09, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The ODNB article doesn't mention the fact that Beatty was born out of wedlock, so it's hardly authoritative.  But the consensus amongst biographies (his nephew Charles Beatty, Roskill) is that he was born at Howbeck Lodge. —Simon Harley (Talk | Library). 23:19, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I am happy to go with the consensus. Many thanks. Dormskirk (talk) 23:54, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Despite the circumstances of his birth and parental marriage, his being born in Nantwich area was publicly known locally even during World War I when the Crewe Chronicle carried a story about his "Birthplace", which was then in the process of being demolished as the story was headed (I speak from memory of reading it in 2009) "Admiral Beatty's Birthplace - Looks as if Germans had shelled it"!Cloptonson (talk) 19:34, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where born? 

message: No mention has been made with regard to the clash with Trenchard over the return, or not as it turned out, of the FAA. I understand Beatty threatened to resign over the issue. I think this should be added. Dapi89 (talk) 18:15, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Short comment on this now included under "Postwar career". Dormskirk (talk) 21:39, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trenchard 

message: I removed this recently added section for two reasons. One, being a draft from an archive it's patently original research.  There is a published version however.  The second point is that the story of Beatty delaying his departure from Rosyth just to pick up a chair is garbage.  Take it from someone who has many books about Jutland and has read dozens of accounts of the battle both official and private - not one supports the notion that "the whole fleet had to be drawn up while his talisman was fetched". --Simon Harley (talk | library | book reviews) 20:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Anecdote" 

message: According to historian Robert Massie, Beatty in 1917-18 escaped from his unhappy marriage to Ethel Field by conducting a torrid affair with Eugenie Godfrey-Faussett. Massie quotes from love letters between the two. See:
, pp. 750-752.  
Sca (talk) 13:39, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Short comment on this now included under "World War I". Dormskirk (talk) 21:51, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Affair 

message: I see that his middle name has been removed, although he doesnt appear to have used the middle name in the Navy some primary sources mention it:
*Birth Index for Nantwich district for 1871 Q3 shows  "David Richard Beatty"
*1871 Census of Nantwich district shows "David R Beaty" son of David Longfield Beaty at "Howbeck Villa".
*In the 1881 Census at St Thomas College he is listed as just "David Beatty".
*In the 1891 Census at RN College, Greenwich he is listed as "David Beatty" born Howbeck, Cheshire. All subsequent records that I can see make no mention of a middle name. Not particularly asking for it to be restored but just keeping it here for information. MilborneOne (talk) 20:28, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's very helpful. Many thanks. Dormskirk (talk) 21:13, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Richard Beatty 

message: Hello all-
FADM Ernest King, USN, wore a breast pocket handkerchief under his ribbons (true).  My reference says it was "worn in emulation of [his] erstwhile joint commander, the jaunty, publicity-fond, and lauded British Admiral David Beatty," following WWI, and King did it in spite of his anglophobia. Adjectives aside ☺ , I can't find a picture of Beatty and a handkerchief.  Can anyone comment?  Thanks.  JMOprof (talk) 14:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Beatty and Ernest King and handkerchiefs 

message: The "Assessment" section mentions that there's a debate between supporters of Beatty and Jellico, but all I see is criticism of Beatty. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:52, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is about Beatty, so most of the discussion is of his handling of the battlecruisers at Jutland, with a mention that people were disappointed at Jellicoe's failure to win a decisive victory. The "debate", such as it was, was in the interwar period and was accompanied by some disreputable behaviour on Beatty's part, more so than in fact is discussed here. By and large historians have long since agreed that Jellicoe handled the Grand Fleet cautiously and well, and that Beatty's record left a bit to be desired.Paulturtle (talk) 22:53, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: For those who take an interest in these things, "The Unfinished Battle", a recent book about Jutland by Jellicoe's grandson Nicholas, discusses the controversy of the inter-war period. I haven't had a chance to read it yet.Paulturtle (talk) 14:26, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Assessment" section 

message: I have removed the infobox flags per WP:INFOBOXFLAG. Per the edit history for this article flags have previously been removed by other editors for the same reason on 10 June 2016 and 2 August 2017. Other articles may still have flags but just because they are still included elsewhere (in breach of the guideline) does not mean they should be inserted here. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 18:19, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is the thing though, this isn't even exclusive to British commanders as there are other commanders with allegiances to different nations, though I'm still waiting for consensus from other editors to express their views for general consensus on this matter. - SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 18:43, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please feel free to express a view as I think you have also previously contributed to this article. Best wishes, Dormskirk (talk) 18:51, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This problem is indeed widespread and the solution is simple: remove the flags whenever we find them. It appears to be common amongst a certain group of editors who love putting in extra add-ons for emphasis. Bolding certaain words and adding foreign language translations are other common traits. What other wiki sites do has no bearing on the decision here. The flags should go, they serve no purpose except adding clutter. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 20:03, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not only does your logic violate several MOS' but also will cause major edit wars sitewide, not to mention a overall waste of trying to remove something used by thousands of articles. - SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 20:23, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Dormskirk. Consensus has already been reached on this topic and is expressed in WP:INFOBOXFLAG, WP:ICON and WP:III. The community, in general, agreed some time ago that flags should not be used in infoboxes. Roger 8 Roger's suggestion here is a sound one that complies with MoS and is highly unlikely to cause mass edit wars. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 21:41, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

text:  Its still a waste to hunt down a minor revision for thousands of articles just because you don't like them in articles. And as Roger 8 Roger put it, there are editors who use them and will likely argue otherwise and all attempts of removing flagicons that were there prior resulted in edit wars from what I've seen from other historical articles. - SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 12:44, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is not a case "don't like them". This has been considered at length before and the consensus which is documented in the guidance at WP:INFOBOXFLAG, WP:ICON and WP:III is clear. As for editors who start edit wars, that is a matter for admins, but my understanding is that such editors are liable to be blocked from editing wikipedia. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 13:31, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox flags