Talk:Turkmenistan/Archive 1

message: I don't think Turkmen SSR should be redirected here.  That would be like redirecting Persia to Iran or Siam to Thailand.  They were different entities with their own histories.  -- Zoe
: In fact Siam does redirect to Thailand.  I'd suggest older names for places only deserve an article if there is a decent amount to say about them.  For now I think everything is fine in Turkmenistan or History of Turkmenistan, everything being about three lines. Bagpuss
For purpose of NPOV, the use of terms such as 'squandered' should probably be avoided. Further, the line below it has an unclear link with the relevant line, despite it being suggested that it expands on the theme. Improv 06:49, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I imagine it's from the Prokudin-Gorskii collection--see http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/gorskii.html and many of the other Wikipedia articles on Central asia. 145.64.134.241 12:27, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Yes, that photo was from Prokudin-Gorsky. It's available on this page: http://sechtl-vosecek.ucw.cz/en/prokudin-gorsky/ostatni.html and I'd make reference to that, but I don't know anything about anything on wikipedia. --209.21.65.28 22:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-direct problem 

message: Here's as much as I could before feeling embarrassed for whoever wrote this. Bold is parts I would edit first.
President Saparmurat Niyazov, a former bureaucrat of the Communist Party of the USSR, retains absolute control over the country and opposition is not tolerated. An all-pervasive cult of personality is in place, with President Niyazov as Turkmenbashi ("The Leader of all Turkmens"). His face adorns almost everything in Turkmenistan, from banknotes to bottles of vodka. The logo of turkmen national television is his profile. The two books he had written are mandatory readings in schools, car driving courses (sic!), clubs, etc. Institutions that cannot be named after him are named after his mother. All watches and clocks made must bear his portrait printed on the dial-face. His 15 meter (50 feet) tall gold-plated giant statue stands on a rotating pedestral, so it will always face into the sun and shine light onto the capital city, which he himself designed. In reality, Niyazov is a very short person, barely taller than 150 centimeters (5 feet).
A slogan popular among Turkmens is "Halk! Watan! Türkmenbashy!" meaning "People! Motherland! Leader!". Niyazov wrote the new turkmen national anthem-oath himself, including phrases that say people who defamate the motherland or the Turkmenbashi should lose their arms.
International corporations have become party to this madness, because no entity can get licences to participate in the turkmen natural gas industry without first complying with Niyazov's strange wishes. His "Ruhnama" book has been published by foreign industrialists in all major languages and croatian, polish, hungarian and bantu (gambian) and many more languages exactly for this reason. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Redguy (talk • contribs) 03:52, 24 April 2005.
: Niyazov is a kind of man who closed all the hospitals outside capital? Why? He thinks there is no necesity in them, people can travel to capital when they're sick.
: Calling that kind of man "mad" isn't exactly a POV, it's a medical constatation.
: Ilyak 15:38, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "An all-pervasive cult of personality is in place" is exactly descriptive of the situation. Cf. the Economist article "Russia and Turkmenistan fall out" from Jul 3rd 2003, http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?id=Turkmenistan where the Wall Street Journal says the same thing, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1298497.stm where the BBC says the same thing. These sources have minimal possible motivations to bias their reporting about the country in a negative direction. 145.64.134.241 12:28, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Parts of teh section on the economy use the same text as does the CIA World factbook entry on Turkmenistan, at https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tx.html ScottMacEachern 20:52, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: How can Turkmenistan be "adjacent to the Caspian Sea" yet have no coastline? :: Salvo (talk) 20:40, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Although bordering the Caspian Sea (1,768 km), Turkmenistan is not considered to have a coastline because the sea is entirely landlocked.  This is comparable to the State of Utah which has the Great Salt Lake, but is not considered to have a coastline.
Zaslav 09:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coastline? 

message: I just removed:
:[Niazov wrote the national anthem], including phrases that say people who defame the motherland or the Turkmenbashi should lose their arms. The national anthem/oath has received condemnation from several international human rights groups because it encourages the persecution of homosexuals.
because I didn't see anything like that in the text of the anthem (although there is something about going blind), and couldn't find discussion anywhere about the anthem relating to homosexuality. Staecker 03:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthem 

message: Someone added this image:
:Image removed
I don't see how this really adds anything to the article. At least the caption is pretty silly: As far as I know, button-down shirts, ties and suit-jackets aren't considered "traditional" clothing anywhere. --BluePlatypus 08:03, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image removed 

message: it says that the Ruhnama is "revered in Turkmenistan almost like a holy text". That's a bit unclear and maybe slightly inaccurate. It implies that the Turkmen people honestly and sincerely believe in Ruhnama and really do revere it. Well I know some Turkmens and I can tell you that there are maybe three people in Turkmenistan who sincerely revere Ruhnama like a holy text, the rest are practically sick to their stomachs when they even see Niyazov's portrait because of all the horrible things he has done to that poor little country. Maybe change it to say something like the book is "expected to be revered...." or "the people are made to revere Ruhnama almost like a holy text." 68.97.212.59 02:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ruhnama "revered"? 

message: If u look closley at the picture with the cammel, u can see in the right side, on one of the sacks, the date :1911.
Which means that it dates AT LEAST bewteen 1911-1915, and not 1905-1915, as listed in the description.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.65.134.74 (talk • contribs) 21:17, 2 May 2006.
Never mind the camel. I just changed that bit about Rukhnama...68.97.212.59 23:01, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Date  

message: I've had it with this Niyazov!! USA, Europe, UN, where the hell are you? Amnesty International? Human Rights Watch? SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING!!!!!!! FREE TURKMENISTAN!!!!!!!  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.97.212.59 (talk • contribs) 04:09, 14 May 2006.
:Why should Europe do anything to free Turkmenistan, when German and French companies are doing great business with the Great Serdar Türkmenbaşy, buying from him cheap gas and building fountains and castles in his honour? Read Gundogar, it has some English articles too.
And please open an account and sign your messages... --Amir E. Aharoni 17:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  For God's sake enough already! 

message: Some user called Papi Lugliano or something like that is constantly inserting bits about some mythical Turkish leader who apparently would have founded the Hittite Empire or something. Not only are these edits false and vandalous, they're even irrelevant to Turkmenistan. Can something be done about this? Druworos 14:35, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: The native name given here and the name on the Turkmen Wikipedia are not the same. -Rmpfu89 18:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  name 

message: This BBC article is be noteworthy, still, it's a bit unclear. BBC does provide a decent overview of the Ukraine-Russia gas row. I'm noting this here for convenience; it may well better be noted elsewhere, possibly in its own entry. Any thoughts? El_C 09:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New Turkmen-Gazprom deal: impact on Ukraine

message: There's been a back and forth deletion/revert regarding paragraphs critical of the alleged current condiditons in Turkmenistan.  My take is that deleting paragraphs is one thing, but when one leaves in but de-links amnesty international, it shows an agenda. Rupertg 16:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Human Rights

message: Perhaps we should mention it? I read it in discover. Zazaban 22:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New civilisation discovered in turkmenistan. 

message: This sentence;
Turkmenistan is also under the rule of one of the world's most autocratic and repressive dictatorships.
Should not be in the lead of this article which should be primarily concerned with geography, traditional culture and so on. Certainly not without a source, any attribution or any surrounding discussion of context. I removed it, it was restored on the basis that the senetence was "indisputable". I think it should be clear to all that the sentence is obviously disputable, thus it shouldn't be carried without qualifiers. These issues need to be explored in the politics and human rights sections, surrounded by attributed sources. To simply write "one of the world's most autocratic and repressive dictatorships" is against policy. Autocratic and repressive according to whom?--Zleitzen 14:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sentence in lead

message: The regime in Turkmenistan is similar to other dictatorships in Iran, North Korea and pre-war Iraq.
In what way? Until further substantiation I editing out this POV Dimensional dan 11:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparison to other countries

message: I kinda feel bad for the guy. Especially considering that he died of death. :-) AEJ 14:24, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to move the "at the time of his death" economic stats: while true in and of themselves, their placement in this section of the article is POV. I'll put them under "Economy". -Fsotrain09 22:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Niyazov's death 

message: If the official language of Turkmenistan is Turkmen, then how come the language of the "official website" (http://www.turkmenistan.gov.tm/) is in Russian (with an optional English version)?  Though Russian is the lingua franca of the CIS and other former Soviet satellites, is the underlying reason that the government doesn't expect anyone inside the country to have internet access and visit this website?
68.231.165.211 03:47, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Rulers of some countries from the former Soviet Union often show great contempt for their own culture. Alyaksandar Lukashenka, the dictator of Belarus, for example, said once that Belarusian language has no interst and that the only two important languages are Russian and English. He doesn't speak Belarusian himself and the official website of the presidency is in Russian and English only. In Turkmenistan, there is no need for a Turkmen website since people have no acces to the internet. See Talk:Gurbanguly Berdimuhammedow#Spelling too about a topic near to this one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Švitrigaila (talk • contribs) 15:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: True.  Viktor Yanukovich, "Prime Minister" of Ukraine, has an imperfect command of Ukrainian.  However, many Russians argue with me all the time on this point: eastern Ukraine is Russian, Khrushchev should never have given the Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR, it is a matter of "national shame" that the current Russian government removed the Black Sea Fleet from Sevastopol (this despite the fact that navy is still headquartered there, though the base is shared with the Ukrainian counterpart), etc. 68.231.165.211 21:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language 

message: Should an article be made, or some mention at least, be given about the fact that they are having an election on February 11, 2007, to replace Niyazov. It will obviously have a great effect on Central Asia, what with the natural gas reserves the country has. And its the frist time the country will have any type of election. Kaiser matias 20:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Turkmen presidential election, 2007 already exists. :o) Švitrigaila 22:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  February 11 Election 

message: There's a lot of unsubstantiated stuff in the 'human rights' section - do any of the editors have a preference - should I remove it, add a cite tag or what? Note - I can't find good references for a lot of it myself (obviously - or I would just do that).213.249.237.49 16:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the worst to below.213.249.237.49 16:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: cite?

message: they were condemned by independent observers such as Radio Free Europe and the International Crisis Group.
This isn't balanced - the observers aren't impartial, and I don't think independant either. If a state or the UN comments I would understand.213.249.237.49 16:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: removals

message: Since the new constitution does allow for multi party politics isn't it inaccurate to list the country as a single party state?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.128.221.196 (talk) 17:12, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, that is. Actually, Turkmenistan have more than one party, even if had only a party, it would not be accurate to list it as one party state since multiple parties are allowed. --Sir artur (talk) 12:56, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Single Party State

message: Shouldn't the politics section be in chronological order starting with the oldest history and ending with today's news?  Cs302b (talk) 08:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Politics section 

message: This article has been vandalized at the beginning.  I don't have the expertise to put in the correct information. Stenik (talk) 21:02, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  article vandalized 

message: ...or however you spell his name. I just looked on the commons and nobody has a non-copyvio pic of him--can we try and get one? He's becoming a rather important figure...K. Lásztocska 18:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  photo of Berdymuhamedov? 

message: Is there any merit to THIS MAP showing valid subdivisions below the provinces of Turkmenistan? Rarelibra 14:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Raions?

message: There is no mention of the indus civilization which also had colonies in Turkmenistan.-Vmrgrsergr 17:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indus? 

message: Could someone please provide citations for this section - I find it unfair that negative comments can be allowed to stand un-proven for years on end. 87.102.86.73 (talk) 14:35, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Press freedom and human rights

message: I'm guessing the five symbols on the flag represent the five provinces. Does anyone know for sure? If so, this belongs in the article somewhere.--MiguelMunoz (talk) 21:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbols in Flag 

message: Never heard it refered to as this.  Turkmenistan is the only name I've heard used and anyone who can find it on a map knows it is one of the 'stans' in that region.  If Turkmenia is used in some back water of the USA or somewhere then provide a source to show it.--Xania talk 18:46, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Also known as Turkmenia?? 

message: The photo supposed to be the Turkmen Majlis is in fact the American White House. Guess it's a little joke but should be changed back quickly!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.78.50.74 (talk) 09:56, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  White House photo 

message: What is the current population of Turkmenistan? If it's mentioned in the article I don't see it.Lily20 (talk) 20:35, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Total Population? 

message: Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries#Turkmen or Turkmenistani? for further discussion. Thanks. Arteyu ?  Blame it on me ! 09:11, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion on the usage of "Turkmen" and "Turkmenistani" on categories and templates 

message: Ertuğrul Gazi is not the founder of the Ottoman Empire. Osman Gazi is the founder, but the sentence states that both of them are founders of the Ottoman Empire. I am changing it into just Osman Gazi.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.253.58.113 (talk) 15:23, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The sentence bottom of the Ertuğrul Gazi Mosque 

message: It is stated in the article:
"Islam came to the Turkmen primarily through missionary activities.  Missionaries were holy men and they often were adopted as patriarchs of particular clans or tribal groups, thereby becoming their "founders." Reformulation of communal identity around such figures accounts for one of the highly localized developments of Islamic practice in Turkmenistan."
Is there any reference on this? What are the founders? and who are they? Asd1815 (talk) 23:43, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islam missionary 

message: I guess the denomination of 'türkmen in black', used twice in this article, is some kind of joke...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.136.71.73 (talk) 15:52, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Türkmen in black 

message: Turkmenistan says in the Lede section: 
"Turkmenistan is one of the six independent Turkic states"  ....with Turkic states as a hyperlink.  (A typical lazy hyperlink.)
But it's worse than a typical lazy hyperlink. It's not defined in the lead section, nor quickly (if at all) defined. Please correct. 
Lazy hyperlinking is when hyperlinking is used as a poor, or awkward replacement for actual, thoughtful in-context English prose. ..typically reads as painfully distracting or pedantic.
pedant   Main Entry: ped·ant  
noun 
2b : one who is unimaginative or who unduly emphasizes minutiae in the presentation or use of knowledge
 --68.127.91.226 (talk) 23:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please fix: ....An atypical lazy hyperlink. 

message: Hi
The total population given in the Infobox is 5.1 million (in 2009). This cannot be right because in the Turkmenistan#Administrative divisions page, the provincial subdivision populations are as follows (albeit 2005 figures):
* Ahal 871500
* Ashgabat (city) 939700
* Balkan 553500
* Dasoguz 1370400
* Lebap 1334500
* Mary 1480400
Total was 6550000 (6.55 million) in 2005. Could Turkmenistan have lost 1.4 million people in 4 years? Was Ashgabat or Ahal excluded from the total?
best, Sunil060902 (talk) 10:24, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the CIA Factbook, the population of the state is 5,054,828 (July 2012 est.). Alex2006 (talk) 11:05, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Is that accurate? That's still 1.5 million less than the province totals in 2005. best, 188.221.129.72 (talk) 09:53, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population - is it accurate? 

message: since an anthem is high importance the anthem box should be re-added(allot of other countries have them)philpm930Philpm930 (talk) 02:12, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: anthem box

message: Cabinet of Ministers (Turkmenistan) is a small, new article. It discusses a small part of the governmental system. I think the information there would be much better merged into a section here. Perhaps in time the entire section might be spun out into Government of Turkmenistan. DES (talk) 16:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propose merge 

message: Yeah, right.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.194.85 (talk) 20:26, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The task for modern Turkmen architecture is diverse application of modern aesthetics, the search for an architect's own artistic style and inclusion of the existing historico-cultural environment. 

message: The link :*Modern Turkmenistan photos has many computer renderings, and photos of the Turkmenistan pavilion in Milan, Italy during Expo 2015.
As such, I propose that it be deleted as not being representative of the ACTUAL Turkmenistan.LorenzoB (talk) 04:27, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: "Automobile transport
Construction of new and modernization of existing roads has an important role in the development of the country. With the increase in traffic flow is adjusted already built roads, as well as the planned construction of new highways. Construction of roads and road transport has always paid great attention. So, in 2004, was removed from office by the Minister of road transport and highways Turkmenistan Baimukhamet Kelov for embezzlement of public funds and deficiencies in the work.[61]"
The title obviously needs to be fixed but the main problems are in the text. It simply doesn't make sense. It looks like words have been forgotten/taken out. The format and sentence structure is all wrong. I'm a novice Wiki user but I will try to fix it. I just wanted to explain here why it is needed. Every sentence has major errors. This is the 53rd largest country known to exist in the universe. I think that the inaccurate information should atleast flow properly. It warrants that much at least, since it is home to the highest density of white marble buildings in the universe and all of that. 2601:244:8300:3B09:A054:1D6B:3B81:B2D7 (talk) 08:42, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixing The Automobile Transport Section 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090114091910/https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/world-leaders-1/world-leaders-t/turkmenistan.html to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/world-leaders-1/world-leaders-t/turkmenistan.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140722015659/http://tourism.gov.tm/en/ to http://tourism.gov.tm/en/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The article says that the full official name of the country is "Republic of Turkmenistan", which is not accurate as there is no official document in the country which says so. The full and official name of the country is "Turkmenistan" and it is reflected in the Constitution of Turkmenistan, please see it here - https://www.wipo.int/edocs/lexdocs/laws/en/tm/tm009en.pdf  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bayram A (talk • contribs) 07:25, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm inclined to agree with you, but the Turkmen Wiki uses the prefix "Republic of". Maybe this is an Ireland-type situation where "Republic of" is a descriptor rather than the name of the state? Either way, I've made the change to the article. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 21:43, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full official name of Turkmenistan