Talk:Grand Duke Vladimir Kirillovich of Russia

message: Only about the RFA would seriously consider that a Bagration marriage should be considered morganatic. Moreson, this is an association headed by a morganatic claimant. Snapdragonfly 17:27, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: See morganatic marriage. The exact significance of Bagration is not clear to me. Andrewa 20:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Bagrations were the former ruling House of Georgia, even if Leonida only comes from a sub-branch of that house. Such was one basis for the marriage not being morganatic. Charles 21:01, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The marriage of Princess Tatiana Consantinovna with a Bagration in 1911 was considered unequal, however, as she had to give up her succession rights in exactly the same manner that Princess Irina (who married Prince Yussupov, clearly unequal) did, and unlike, as I understand it, grand duchesses and princesses who clearly married equally.  Vladimir, of course, changed this when he declared that his marriage was equal, but it was, nonetheless, a change from earlier practice.  john k 21:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. So what Snapdragonfly was saying was that, in their opinion, the Bagrations wouldn't have entered into morganatic marriages. Andrewa 01:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, in fact the Bagrations did contract marriages that were deemed morganatic, e.g. a younger son of the Prince Regent Levan of Kartli (1660-1709), Prince Svimeon (known in Russia, where he died in 1740, as Tsarevich Simon Levanovich Gruzinsky)  morganatically married Anna Potapovaafter the death in 1717 of his first wife, Princess Gulkhan of Aragvi. Rather, Snapdragonfly seems to have been saying that only current members of the Romanoff Family Association (RFA), whose president was considered a rival claimant to Vladimir Kirillovich after 1987, would contend that Vladimir's marriage to a Bagration princess must be morganatic, since all of their mothers were designated as morganatic by Vladimir's father, Grand Duke Cyril Vladimirovich -- even those who were Rurikid or Gedyminian princesses by birth. Snapdragonfly is dismissing their argument against Vladimir's marriage as a case of spiteful tit-for-tat.Lethiere 02:54, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, thank you. Very interesting! I suppose that heir is a lot more impressive than claimant if someone's thinking of inviting you or one of your relatives to speak at a conference or dinner or to marry them or many other things. So the distinctions are potentially worth a great deal of money, and probably more valuable still in terms of social prestige (the two are not unrelated), even if there's no great chance of anyone actually reigning as a result. Andrewa 00:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old talk

message: Another editor has closed the requested move, citing the poll as lost 4 to 1.
There seems to be a vague consensus that some sort of move is needed. I suggest that we discuss specific proposals here. 
IMO the basis of these discussions shouldn't be the perfect solution. We may get to that, I hope we do, but for now we need to work towards a consensus on a solution that is acceptable to everyone, or failing that to nearly everyone. This raises the prospect that there may be more than one such solution. If we get to that stage, then we start considering which is the preferred solution of the acceptable ones. And then, having reached consensus on all of this, we go back to requested moves. 
It probably won't be a short process. But keep it as concise as possible is my advice. Andrewa 22:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: John K's proposal is acceptable, although Cyrillovich is preferential to me... It is more "English" in appearance and forms of this are less numerous than forms of the Russian transliteration. But if all else fails, I will vote with John. Charles 20:34, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Where to now

message: I propose Grand Duke Vladimir Kirillovich of Russia. john k 04:28, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: John K's proposal is acceptable, although Cyrillovich is preferential to me... It is more "English" in appearance and forms of this are less numerous than forms of the Russian transliteration. But if all else fails, I will vote with John. Charles 20:34, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Grand Duke Vladimir Kirillovich of Russia

message: Guy Stair Sainty owns an art gallery in New York- hardly the basis for using him as a citation or quoting him as a scholar. 12.146.101.146 23:45, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not the basis of Guy Stair Sainty being quoted as a scholar. You might notice one day that not everyone on this earth leads a one-track life. Charles 23:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The fact that this anonymous editor does not recognise the scholarship of Guy Stair Sainty says a great deal.  There are very few people (if any) who have written more in English about the legal arguments regarding the succession to various European thrones than Sainty.  He is definitely more of an expert about certain other successions, but his opinion about the Russian one is still noteworthy. Noel S McFerran 12:45, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Said editor is "I vonH" or something to the effect, judging from the "mediation request" on my talk page where the discussion he started is peppered with the word "vandal" in reference to me. I sense someone with an agenda. Mr. McFerran is, of course, correct about Mr. Sainty. Charles 14:05, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Guy Stair Sainty's published scholarship may be chiefly in the areas of art and chivalry, but he has also published in other areas. Here is an essay published by Sainty specifically on the Russian succession .  He has also written extensively on the thrones of France and the Two Sicilies. Noel S McFerran 12:44, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

text: It is published on the web.  That's the way lots of things are published in the year 2007. Noel S McFerran 22:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

text: It's now 2013. Did you guys come to a mutually satisfactory decision yet? 81.131.6.253 (talk) 17:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guy Stair Sainty 

message: This section contains the phrase "The Romanov Family Association, which the claim of Maria's cousin Nicholas to be head of the House of Romanov ...". There is a verb missing from the phrase, can you spot where? I'll give you a clue, it's after the word "which". The missing verb kind of affects the entire meaning of the phrase. Could it be "disputes", for instance, or "believes", or perhaps something more original such as "regrets" or "disgorges"? 81.131.6.253 (talk) 17:42, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't matter because the by-laws of the Romanov Family Association forbid the organisation from recognizing anyone as rightful claimant to the dynasty's former Imperial throne. Their president is head of the Association, not ipso facto of the family -- still less of the dynasty. FactStraight (talk) 03:39, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section "Death and succession dispute" 

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