Talk:Miyata

message: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyata_(motorfiets) Maikel (talk) 07:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: See also

message: Hello, I created Miyata page (this page) after I purchased my Miyata 710 from a garage sale. It is the one on the top of the page, Miyata 710. Unfortunately this bike was stolen from my building's laundry room even though it was locked. If you know whereabouts of this bike, please let me know. I can prove that I owned the bike. I also reported this theft to the local police station.
Play4go (talk) 05:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Help needed from Miyata Community

message: When I worked at a bike shop, the Miyata rep told us Miyata's models were designed to fit at price points between Raleigh's models. Is this true? Is this documented?
kdbailey (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 21:48, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Miyata marketed through Raleigh Dealers?

message: My quick Google gave the first few pages all on the bicycle. The images option gives me only bicycles! Other evidence? Andrewa (talk) 21:01, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we can see some cases like Furuno, Fujikura, or Kubota, where the company is primary even though that name is also a surname. In those cases, not just the web results but the top hits in reliable sources (Google News & Books results) are almost all about the companies' products, even though the companies are rather obscure to the general public. Contrast that with cases like Nomura or Tokuyama, where the companies (Nomura Group and Tokuyama Corporation) aren't clearly primary and the GNews & GBooks results are about a bunch of different things. The GNews & GBooks results for Miyata resemble the latter group a lot more than the former group. 59.149.124.29 (talk) 10:09, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't try googling because I assumed the results would be skewed by my search interests (I own two Miyata bicycles and put stuff on the internet about it often enough). Some of the images you saw are probably mine. My feeling is not that individuals with the surname outplace the bicycle manufacturer as a primary topic, even taken together; it's more like they're very close when the individuals are taken together so at least by the numbers there's no clear primary topic. But nonetheless something has to live at Miyata. I guess if you believe Google's "see results about" filter (search for "miyata" and see the box that comes up at the right) I get 9.19M ghits for Miyata the company, and 134k for Ichiro Miyata the fictional character from Hajime no Ippo; those are Google's only two filter options. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Of the Japanese companies name after places I've found, Toyota looks like the only one taking the primary. Others use the full name (Yamaha Corporation, Yokohama Rubber Company, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Komatsu Limited), or Kawasaki motorcycles, Iiyama (company). Suzuki is primary named after its owner. I support the alternative proposal, as like I previously suggested, its not a hugely well-known global company (I take back my initial statement about its notability after doing some research), although I'm slightly jealous of your two Miyata frames Ivanvector ;). The full company name (Miyata Cycle Co., Ltd.?) maybe an alternative. , it can't be :Miyata (bicycle) as it isn't actually a bicycle like the articles in :Category:Bicycles. BaldBoris 17:31, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: None of these examples seem relevant. For example, Yokohama is a famous city, the second largest in all of Japan in fact, and Yokohama Rubber Company is rarely referred to as Yokohama, and then only in very restricted contexts. Miyata, Fukuoka, unlike Yokohama, is so not-famous as to be bordering on non-notability, with the result that the bicycle and its manufacturer are relatively common referents of Miyata in English. So the key argument for the move does not apply at all to Yokohama, nor as far as I can see to any of the other examples given (for a variety of reasons). Andrewa (talk) 07:13, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Renaming the company article to the full name would suit natural disambiguation and solve one of these problems, but TBH I'm not really sure what the full name is. Some variation of "Miyata Cycle" or "Miyata Sport" is the name of their bicycle division, but they also manufacture fire extinguishers under a brand of the Morita Group. When I'm not on my mobile I'll try and find it in one of the book sources, I added some yesterday. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 11:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

text:  Also, Miyata is also named after its original founder/owner. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 11:38, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright I've been doing some research (obviously) but I can't tell you what the present full name of the company is, except that it's probably in Japanese since they don't have a very active presence in the west these days. I suggest, then, that the article should be titled "Miyata" (and not "Miyata Manufacturing" or "Miyata Cycle" or whatever) with whatever disambiguator we decide to go with. Other titles could be redirects: I've found Miyata Manufacturing, Miyata Cycle Works, Miyata Cycle Co, Miyata Gun Works, Miyata Sport, Miyata Group, and probably others (Koga Miyata is a related partnership, and I think Miyata Kōgyō just translates to Miyata Company). Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:01, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: So it's either Miyata or Miyata (company) then. I get the feeling Miyata (company) would be the best bet; no overwhelming support for Miyata. I never usually contribute to moves, but this all seems very unnecessary. It's disappointing  hasn't got anything to say. BaldBoris 14:21, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  i dont have any opinion except that Wikipedia should not use primary topics. It's a bad policy that should be changed. Losing this policy would have prevented the 2000 words being typed above and prevented people to having to read them. Anyway, just do what you think is best. – ishwar  (speak) 19:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree totally. I've tried before to suggest that if there's any doubt we should disambiguate, or ideally have a DAB at the base name whenever there are three or more topics that could go by the same name. Good luck. Andrewa (talk) 22:44, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree totally. Primary topics are one of the bedrocks of the article titling policy. Although disambiguation pages aren't as horrible as some people at the New York debates used to claim, and where primacy isn't clear, it's fine and good to have a dab page at the base title, I am also convinced that it is correct to avoid them where the primary usage is clear. And in this case 's evidence tells us the primary usage is clearly the bicycle.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:36, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with most of this. All I'm saying is that (1) in cases that primary topic is controversial, the default should be to disambiguate (and yes, the NYRM2016 fiasco is a factor in my thinking this), and (2) if I were setting up Andrewpedia I wouldn't use primary topic or anything similar at all, it's a Wikipedia invention that IMO has proven far more trouble than it's worth. But I mention (2) only for completeness, there are many better silly ideas on which to spend my time. Andrewa (talk) 18:12, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

text: The obvious problem with these stats is that you're only looking at time when this discussion was open. Pages with discussions advertised on busy noticeboards tend to have a spike in views, and if you were looking at this though WP:RM you'd have to come here first before seeing any of the other pages. I've also been working on the article at the same time so that will unnaturally elevate the views. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:06, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Evidence

message: I've run through the list of pages which  compiled above, looking at just page views since 8 November, which was the first full day with the article at the current title. Results show the bicycle page at the top with 42%, and only Kōki Miyata coming anywhere near with 24% of views. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 10:54, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The obvious problem with these stats is that you're only looking at time when this discussion was open. Pages with discussions advertised on busy noticeboards tend to have a spike in views, and if you were looking at this though WP:RM you'd have to come here first before seeing any of the other pages. I've also been working on the article at the same time so that will unnaturally elevate the views. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:06, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Page views

message: Just throwing some more fuel on this fire:
*Miyata (the manufacturing company) is among Japan and the world's oldest and longest continuously operating bicycle manufacturers (1890-present, only a handful of European brands are older and even fewer still exist today), made a bicycle by request for the future Emperor in 1892 at a time when bicycles were generally viewed with disdain in Japan as foreign toys, supposedly (needs sourcing) developed several important framebuilding technologies, part of a long-term partnership (1977-2010) which produced bicycles which competed in several Tours de France and won a stage in 1981, has a documented claim for manufacturing the first all-Japanese motorcycle (1913) as well as the first motorcycle mass-manufactured in Japan (1933), possibly a manufacturer of the first indigenous Japanese service rifle (1880s) although I have yet to find a source which explicitly confirms, and one of the earliest Japanese automobile manufacturers (1910)
*Kōki Miyata is a living Japanese voice actor with an impressive list of bluelinked credits going back to 1993, including leading roles in several notable franchises (Digimon, for example)
*Kazuyuki Miyata is a living Japanese mixed martial artist with a 24-fight MMA career (2004-present) who has competed and placed unremarkably (didn't medal) in Olympic freestyle wrestling (2000)
*Miyata 310 is a frankly unremarkable 1970's-80's model of Miyata bicycle frame
*Mayumi Miyata is a Japanese musician known for her remarkable talent with a traditional Japanese instrument, who has worked with an impressive list of composers worldwide (most of whom I'm completely unfamiliar with, but also Björk)
I only checked the top few results from Amakuru's list, and clearly I'm more familiar with one of these topics. Just offering this as another way to look at the situation. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 19:50, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Prominence

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I realize that the 4xx series wasn't very long-lasting in Miyata's model lineup but believe it still deserves a place on the list. Could someone write a little blurb of those models ?? 2001:56A:7D16:300:E9BF:C5:B596:8E69 (talk) 00:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  4XX Series not shown in list of models