Talk:Jozef Tiso

message: ~Mz, the number 58000 is too low, unless it is the number of deported before 1944. What is your source and which time does it refer to? Juro 21:46, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  comment about 58000 deported 

message: I have added two references for that event, since it was quite shocking information for me. Both references are in Slovak and feature one witness, Ján Budzák, who was one of the children. Turingsk (talk) 23:47, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "only through my dead body" event references 

message: Yes, it is the number of deported until October 1942 ("by that time" = when deportations were stopped), German subsequently deported some other 13,500 Jews during the occupation. Source: In the spirit of Christianity - present in external links. I have added the latter number into the article. mz 08:14, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Nazism is abbreviation of "national socialism", the nationality is not specified. The Nazism article uses the term "German Nazism", so perhaps the appropriate term would be "Slovak nazism"... Anyway, after 1944 the political situation is Slovakia was definitely controlled by Nazi Germany, with Tiso as a president, of course... --195.113.53.102 15:07, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The present version is OK. It is also true that before 1944 the first Slovak Republic was in fact more independent than post-war Czechoslovakia with respect to the Soviet Union. Some remarks: (1) The meaning of control is not so clear in English anyway (we have had the problem already in connection with Czehoslovakia), (2) in English, government refers to all governing institutions and entities, not only to the sum of ministries (we have had this problem already too) [see e.g. expressions like "the structure of US government"], so the formulation (which does not stem from me) was wrong only from a certain point of view, (3) do not forget that there were "German advisors" in the government (ie the ministries)...Juro 01:16, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled 

message: I do not feel that this article is sufficiently neutral. Jozef Tiso toed the Nazi party line, and there is little doubt that he would have risked his position, reputation and even life by standing up for the Jews of slovakia who were widely despised by the local population due to their superior wealth and social status (at the time most Slovaks were no more than peasants, and the region was very rural and poor). I feel this article treats Tiso too softly, especially the last section referring to President Benes and effectively portraying Benes as a merciless murderer - this must be understood in the context of the times. Listing the political parties that objected to the reprieve also reflects a non-neutral point of view. Tiso was a traitor, and was treated like any other of the time. One should not forget that pro-Tiso Slovaks fought against the SNP (slovak national uprising), and the treatment that was enacted by Tiso's regime upon countless collaborators of the partisans engaged in the uprising.
I therefore do not feel this artical is neutral enough, and tried to change this as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knuzeb (talk • contribs) 
Following this, nothing seems to have changed. POV tag added. --83.228.182.202 (talk) 21:34, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the article is unduly biased - against Tiso. It reads as if written by an Anti-Nazi Jew. Why else the hostility to a Slovak nationalist (not a Nazi) and the bulk of the article being about Jews, to the exclusion of the many more important events during his career.Royalcourtier (talk) 05:00, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-neutrality 

message: see http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:oWZXt8Cg404J:mozaika.sme.sk/c/2597058/Podla-prava-mal-prezident-ulozit-Tisovi-milost.html+tiso+narodny+sud&hl=de&gl=de&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a
 --Mt7 17:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tisos end 

message: Is there an English language biography of Tiso available, or at least a book that covers his role in the Slovakia state?
Regarding neutrality of the article, I think that there isn't enough evidence in the article of his facilitation or acquiesence of crimes against humanity that would make his guilt a simple "fact" or this being another of case of the "winners" shooting the "losers".
Philippe Petain's collaboration in crimes against humanity is better documented. and he was convicted of treason, and he was not executed in comparison. patsw 21:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Where does the article state he is guilty of crimes against humanity?  From what I read it says he was charged with "internal treason, treason of the Slovak National Uprising and collaboration with Nazism".  And that his death sentence and execution were controversial. I don't know anything about Petain, and I think concerns for Petain's article should be listed on that talk page.--BirgitteSB 17:36, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Collaboration with Nazism" is not merely a matter of ideology but the mass murder of non-combatants, particularly the Jews, which now comprises about a third of the article.  Someone familiar with Tiso's biography could document his role in that "collaboration" better. patsw 14:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you saying that he was not charged with "Collaboration with Nazism" after WWII?--BirgitteSB 14:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

text: There is - look up "Slovak History" by Anton Spiesz, the English version of "Dejiny Slovenska".  It's a general Slovak history book but spends a *lot* of time on Tiso, especially on the collaboration and deportation questions and on his execution.  I can't judge whether it's POV though.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.132.12.242 (talk) 00:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Available Biography 

message: There needs to be some more information on Father Tiso as a Roman Catholic priest.  There's no mention of which order he belonged to, his ecclesiastic superiors or whether he was declared a Martyr of the Church.
David Cheater (talk) 00:05, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tiso as Catholic Priest 

message: I agree with David Cheater
No mention he was Doctor of Moral Theology etc.
This article has not character of autobiography, rather it is  biased article about WWII Slovak Republic. Wikipedia should be encyklopedia and not anti fascist forum. 
Biasad because of using
- Leader instead of President
- "Indepedant" in quotation when their using in ironical sense
Beter is using normal statment that WWII Slovakia was puppet state without irony.
== Antisemitism on czech wikipediea - help needed ==
Dear wikipedians. I would like to ask for help those of you who speak czech. On czech wikipedia, there are two people who spoil the Tiso article with many citations of Ďurica, a Slovak revisionist adoring Tiso and the Ludak regime. These citations are very biased, some Durica's claims are meaningless or/and antisemitic, but I'm alone there against two, they don't discuss rationally and other czech wikipedians do not seem to be interested in this topic, so I lack any support. Thanks a lot for your help.  Franp9am (talk) 12:22, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  About what is this artcle ? 

message: The Article is linked to President of Slovakia but Tiso's name isn't in the list of presidents (or even mentioned). Virant (talk) 18:39, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think he should be not in this category. There is not a state continuity between the fascist war state and today's Slovakia. Or maybe the category (and article) President of Slovakia should be specified more, I don't know. Franp9am (talk) 21:25, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  removed - category only applies to present Slovak Republic--Smerus (talk) 09:32, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Tiso a president? 

message: Would somebody please revise this section:
"His power was limited and until now there is no proof that he signed deportations of Jews to concentration camps even though the Slovak Parliament accepted a bill (May 1942) deciding the deportation of the Jews."
The Constitutional Law on the Deportations (68/1942) was in fact signed by Tiso. This entire section whitewashes his support for the 1942 deportations. For the most recent scholarship on this point, see Ward, Priest, Politician, Collaborator, Chapter 7.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.236.15 (talk) 23:01, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: done.--Smerus (talk) 09:25, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tiso and Deportations 

message: I removed the last sentence of the fourth (penultimate) paragraph of the section "Slovak seccession":
:
Aside from the poor English (that can be fixed) this sentence could be taken in two almost opposite meanings:
#"...with the same content, EXCEPT excluding territorial claims for pre-Munich borders and excluding cognisance..." (That is, the aide-memoire was the same as the British document except that it excluded (omitted) the part about not recognizing border and not recognized legal continuity)
#"...with the same content, THUS ALSO excluding territorial claims for pre-Munich borders and excluding cognisance..."
Since it's not clear and since these are basically opposite meanings, I deleted the sentence. Herostratus (talk) 03:51, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  United States... 

message: Can someone please undo the following edit: (cur | prev) 10:11, 28 May 2016‎ 86.154.105.98 (talk)‎ . . (22,833 bytes) (+1,126)‎. 
This is a nationalist reworking of the previous text that introduces several false statements. The specific National Tribunal that hanged Tiso, for example, was dominated by Communists but was nonetheless a body of the Slovak government, which at the time was a coalition between Communists and Democrats. 
More troubling is the claim introduced into the article that Slovak Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz, as this evokes revisionism. For one thing, the contributor seeks to mitigate Slovak participation in the Holocaust by arguing that Slovak policy resulted only in Jews being worked to death rather than gassed. Besides being morally untenable, the argument is backed only by evidence that Slovak Jews worked at Monowitz, and that the killing process at Auschwitz was still evolving in spring 1942. Jews deemed incapable of work, however, were routinely killed, and a gas chamber was in operation in Birkenau already in June 1942. Slovak Jews moreover were not only sent to Auschwitz but also to death camps such as Belzec. See:
http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/communities/bratislava/deportations.asp
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007324
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005189
I also question why Friedlander, a leading authority on the Holocaust, should be qualified as a "Jewish writer."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.35.40.136 (talk) 21:13, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationalist and revisionist edit 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: Who is going to confuse Jozef Tiso and Josip Tito? I don't get it, it's so many different consonants, and a very uncommon form for the latter (it's usually either Josip Broz or Josip Broz Tito or just mononymously Tito). --Joy [shallot] (talk) 21:21, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. (t · c) buidhe 21:27, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree. CJ-Moki (talk) 06:10, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  confusion with Tito?