Talk:Wyrd

message: I think we should move the article to weird.
Why? I put 'weird' into the search box and it redirects here anyway. Kantiandream 08:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weird 

message: [The Well of Urd is the holy well supposed to harbor the head of Mímir the giant] and [Odin dropped his eye into the well to gain the "Gift of Knowledge." Odin completed two other tasks to gain the "Gift of Poetry" and the "Mysteries of Nature."] are incorrect.  These refer to the Well of Mimir, which is a different well located in a different world.  I don't know of a source that claims they're the same.  Snorri Sturlson clearly distinguishes them in the "Prose Edda" (Gylfaginning XV): 
Three roots of the tree uphold it and stand exceeding broad: one is among the Æsir; another among the Rime-Giants, in that place where aforetime was the Yawning Void; the third stands over Niflheim, and under that root is Hvergelmir, and Nídhöggr gnaws the root from below. But under that root which turns toward the Rime-Giants is Mímir's Well, wherein wisdom and understanding are stored; and he is called Mímir, who keeps the well. He is full of ancient lore, since he drinks of the well from the Gjallar-Horn. Thither came Allfather and craved one drink of the well; but he got it not until he had laid his eye in pledge. 
The third root of the Ash stands in heaven; and under that root is the well which is very holy, that is called the Well of Urdr; there the gods hold their tribunal. 
See http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/pre/pre04.htm
Mark350125 06:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Well of Urd is not the same as Mimir's Well 

message: I know of at least one book series (Deverry Cycle/Katherine Kerr)that is wholly based on just this very concept of wyrd, and also mentions it quite a few times in that name.
79.181.108.148 (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  How about a new section for "Wyrd in popular media"? 

message: More recently I wrote an article based on some German authors (Golther / Simek) over on the German Wikipedia. Especially Golther goes into detail about Germanic Mythology and draws more strict lines between Wurd (Wyrd/Urd) and other Norns, especially those at the "Well of Urd" as described in the Icelandic tradition. In this regard he also remarks that "Wurd" is the only one of the three Norns at the well who exists outside the Icelandic texts (something confirmed by Jakob Grimm) and that 
she thus may be regarded as all-Germanic, whereas Skuld and Verdandi are essentially concepts of Antiquity (Parcae) introduced by the writer(s) in Iceland. 
Golther also equates Wurd with more than just Fate, but also Fortunes, Destiny, and Death (Beowulf 477). 
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wurd  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ynnis (talk • contribs) 23:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar / related article on the German Wikipedia 

message: In the spirit of 'being bold', I've taken my abject lack of knowledge of Norse mythology and had a bash at tidying this up a bit.  In my defence, it's because I lack any real knowledge of the subject that I found the article so difficult to grasp: as it stood, and without intending any offence, it seemed more aimed at showcasing someone's understanding of the material than at explaining it to those of us not so educated.  As a result, if you now find that any of the statements made are no longer accurate then please feel free to revert them or edit them yourself.  The only thing I'd ask is that you please bear in mind that the purpose here is to explain the concept to someone who doesn't already understand it.  Thus, the language used needs to be as clear as possible.  I'm not advocating 'dumbing-down': just accessibility.
(I should also point out, for honesty's sake, that I adhere to a concept called 'Wyrd' myself, which I consider akin to 'Tao'; but I recognise that it's easy for reconstructionists and borrowers-of-other-people's-culture to misunderstand the true, historical concepts that they adopt.  In that spirit, I've tried not to let my personal conception of Wyrd interfere with my edits, since I realise this article deals with the Old Norse concept.  If you think that this has compromised any of my edits then again, by all means amend them - but please still bear the above request in mind.)
So I have:
­- Generally reworded the 'Concept' section.  In my view it was compromised by overly poetic language at the expense of clarity.
- Taken out the reference to proto-Germanic 'Naudiz'.  This is because this article (Wyrd) does not fully explain the application of the term 'Naudiz' to the concept being described.  Also, the 'Naudiz' article itself is a stub and it's not immediately clear from that article what relevance it has to this one.  The association with 'constraint' is apparent, but I felt it would be far simpler just to say 'constraint' and trust that readers understood what that meant.
- Exchanged some frankly rather fanciful words for more down-to-earth alternatives.  For example, I've replaced 'congruent to' with 'the same as'.  Although I know it's not strictly a synonym, in context it provides the same information in more familiar, clearer language.
- Reworded the section about the Norns, and excised some references.  This was the section that seemed most intended to demonstrate someone's familiarity with Old Norse than to educate my uncultured self in how the Norns relate to Wyrd.
- Shrivenzale (talk) 14:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Shrivenzale. (S)he has made a pretty good start at translating the article into plain English, but the section entitled "Concept" is still, to the average reader, complete gobbledegook. Pretentious, meaningless phrases such as "entwining the reticulum of the fabric of being and non-being" simply don't have a place in a lay person's encyclopaedia.Could someone who both (1) understands the subject and (2) isn't simply trying to show off their flowery prose please try and make this article accessible?  ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 02:57, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Reworked Article

message: For any who know the languages in the translation links, please confirm that they correspond to Wyrd and not Urðr. I removed the ones for Urðarbrunnr, but I'm not going to remove the translation links for the others if I can't say with certainty that they are not about Wyrd or both Wyrd and Urðr. LokiClock (talk) 18:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation links need checking 

message: has requested that this article be merged with Urðr. Discussion is taking place at Talk:Urðr. :bloodofox: (talk) 20:09, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with Urðr 

message: It should be merge with German / Deutsch Wurd, since this article here is primarily about the personification of fate and not about the mythological figure of Norse Mythology Urðr:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wurd  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ynnis (talk • contribs) 20:57, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with German: Wurd 

message: Why does Urth redirect here when it doesn't mention the term anywhere? --Brian Fenton (talk) 16:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Urth? 

message: A according to page 230 of "A handy Anglo-Saxon Dictionary" (link = http://books.google.com/books?id=H99ZAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA230) the term "wærdo" means something uncommon, a wonder, or monster. Page 251 of the same lexicon has "Wyrd" with "1. Weird" but that says the goddess fate, etc. Is there confirmation that our modern English usage for "weird" (meaning "odd") derives from this "wyrd" and not rather than from "wærdo"??Charlie (talk) 04:14, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. If you read the article, you'll see that we can trace the history of weird back, with the first occurrence of the meaning of "odd" being as late as 1815. Unless you can provide some evidence of connection between the Old English wærdo and the modern English weird, I don't see why we'd hypothesize a connection. It's not like the period between 1050 and 1815 are poorly documented linguistically.--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:41, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: wærdo??

message: Hi,
I see that the article (writer(s)) choose to interpret "out, from, beyond" as "beyond",
i.e making "that which is (according to Urd)" something beyond the law. 
This is an unreferenced interpretation; as unreferenced interpretations go, wouldn't it make 60 000 times more sense to interpret the necessity of fate as originating "from law" (or even "out of law") parallell to a concept like "karma" (understood as a metaphysical version of the law of cause and effect) (not that I'm a Buddhist) (nor that I am, like, against, like, Buddhism)?
UNODIR, I'll change it soon.
T
85.166.162.202 (talk) 03:32, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: See, this is not Buddhism--that's a religion a continent away from this one. And the appropriate response to unreferenced statements that may be OR is not to add unreferenced statements that are clearly uninformed OR.--Prosfilaes (talk) 20:43, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Beyond" vs. "Out of" law 

message: I would like to petition for either the removal of the Macbeth reference, or to edit it with a sub-category. I ask for this because the "weird" Shakespeare uses is not a derivation of "Wyrd" but a pronunciation of the word "weyward" (modern: wayward). This word comes from the middle english word "awayward" meaning "turned away from" and was used in the text to describe that the three "sisters" were apostates of the church. While they do appear to have prescient visions of Macbeth's future, it is unlikely that Shakespeare would have used that aspect of their character to describe them, given that the play was written or edited to attract the attentions of King James. Erasychthon (talk) 08:34, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Better to add the alternative derivation, with good sources. I'd drop the questionable OR about what Shakespeare or King James might have thought. Johnbod (talk) 11:51, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

text: This derivation is not at all widely accepted. However, if you can add it in context and with reliable sources, feel free. :bloodofox: (talk) 00:49, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macbeth