Talk:Fiona Shackleton

message: The name in the infobox should match up with the article title and the honorific prefix tab should be used for the baroness title. The full title is given in the first line of the text. The title and infobox should reflect the same common name as determined by the recent move request. The full title is given adequately in the main text and to have the infobox name and the page title name different creates unnecessary confusion to user’s with little or no knowledge of the subject at hand.--Lucy-marie (talk) 13:01, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I am happy to rely on parliament.uk  Your reference is ?  Kittybrewster  ☎ 13:09, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The result of the move request above and court documents showing that she goes under the name of Fiona Shackelton.--Lucy-marie (talk) 13:35, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There are none since she was ennobled. Kittybrewster  ☎ 13:43, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly, so we have to take the historicly accurate name she goes to court in and not what she may use in the futer because that is crystal ball gazing. Take Cherie Blair, she still goes to court as "Miss Cherie Booth QC". So guessing at what he future name will be when she goes to court is not able to be done.--Lucy-marie (talk) 14:22, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Her name sans title is historic and now  inaccurate. She has now been ennobled and the infoxbox should reflect her present style. Kittybrewster  ☎ 14:27, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The ennobled title is acccuratly covered in the context of the main article. The name used before she was ennobled is waht is is commonly known as so that is what should be used. The ennobled title is adequatly covered in the main article text.--Lucy-marie (talk) 14:37, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: She is no longer known without her new style. Kittybrewster  ☎ 14:41, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As I stated earlier the ennobled name is sufficently covered in the main article text. These arguments were covered in the move request above. For consistency in the article the title of the article and the name in the infobox should match up.--Lucy-marie (talk) 14:54, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Nonsense. See Margaret Thatcher, David Steel, Norman Tebbit, John Prescott, Peter Mandelson, Paddy Ashdown, Jeffrey Archer, Michael Heseltine, Michael Howard and Harold Wilson. Kittybrewster  ☎ 15:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

text:  I'm not sure what your point is - there are plenty of references to her name, e.g. the first one on the article page (the BBC).  The issue here is whether we used the honorific or her normal name, both of which are supported by reliable sources. Dpmuk (talk) 13:39, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: All that does is show a wider problem with inconsistency. I think a wider discusion on this is needed probably best done when the article titles discussion currently being undertaken is resolved. As for the Rt Hon and  LVO additions they are clearly not needed in the infobox as they are just unecussarry clutter in the infobox.--Lucy-marie (talk) 16:19, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

text: I was asked to comment here by Kittybrewster.  I have to say that what should be included in people infoboxes is not something I knew too much about so there may well be guidelines out there that contradict what I'm about to say - please point me at them if there are.  Anyway it seems to me that there is a strong argument for consistency between the name in the infobox and the article title and so I think the name should read "Fiona Shackleton". I don't really know enough to feel able to comment on whether honorific_prefix parameter should be used (although I do not that attempts to introduce it have failed as they have used a "-" rather than a "_").  I would prefer that other people weigh in on this rather than this just being decided by three users, because as I say, this isn't really my area (I hang around requested moves, hence the reason I closed the request but know less about this particular issue). Dpmuk (talk) 13:39, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Lucy-marie, I would hope that your response would address the points made. We agree that she is now Baroness Shackleton. The proposal adds  the style by which she is now held and which she will hold for most of her adult life. Why do you believe that the reader is assisted by removing the the from the infobox? Kittybrewster  ☎ 18:26, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No-one in their right mind in print or in general conversation would say to someone “the rt. hon. Baroness Shackleton LVO" it is just superfluous. Please do not add unintentionally but highly confusing prefixes 99% of the general public do not understand and are never used in print or in speech outside the Commons or Lords chambers or committee rooms. The Baroness prefix fine keep it until the discussion has been had and the consensus in agreed to. if you really want to add the suffixes in small and centred underneath the title in the infobox ,but the only prefix is the title Baroness and not Rt. Hon. which virtually nobody uses outside of the Palace of Westminster. One prefix is enough two is confusing and unnecessary.--Lucy-marie (talk) 18:50, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Consistency. See Margaret Thatcher, Norman Tebbit, David Steel, Paddy Ashdown, Michael Heseltine, Michael Howard, Jeffrey Archer, John Prescott, Peter Mandelson and Harold Wilson. Kittybrewster  ☎ 19:10, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I read the matter was closed (above). So I changed the infobox accordingly. Bye. -DePiep (talk) 22:10, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: So after the article title has been decided, you English snobbers start it all over again about the infobox. Without talkiing here. So I will revert the baronessesses highnes into her real name. -DePiep (talk) 22:58, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What is an English snobber? Brackets have no part in the infoxbox title. Kittybrewster  ☎ 23:16, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: An English snobber is: snobbish. The title is clear. Now stop rubbing indirect "style" please: her name is crisp & clear, and her style is mentioned in the intro. -DePiep (talk) 23:23, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As shown in the examples given, the infobox should include her style. It is pretentious to suggest otherwise. We don't do brackets in infoboxes. Kittybrewster  ☎ 23:29, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

text: The problem is that it doesn't have consensus and it is not how we do infoboxes. That makes your novel approach controversial and unstable. Are any infoboxes done that way? Kittybrewster  ☎ 10:15, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We do this the way the others are done. Examples given above.  Kittybrewster  ☎ 10:01, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name in infobox 

message: I have protected the article for three days and encourage the editors involved to consider the various means of dispute resolution.  No doubt, the current version is The Wrong Version, but that's the nature of things. Favonian (talk) 13:29, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page protection 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: Her husband Ian is related to Antarctic explorer Sir Ernest Shackleton.
:It would be interesting to know through which of Sir Ernest's family. Valetude (talk) 22:41, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family link to the Shackletons