Talk:Hasekura Tsunenaga/Archive 1

message: Was this the basis for "The Samurai" by Endo Shusaku? This seems pretty much the same as the plot of that book, without all the Christian stuff. Adam Bishop 21:25, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Endo Shusaku's novel was based on this event. The book makes interesting reading, but is not so factual. PHG 21:37, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Basis of "the Samurai"?

message: How do you think, "Spanish Approaches" are not directly relevant to his own life. I assume it is better to separate this section and extend it including other relationship between Spain and Japan during this period. --Aphaea* 09:50, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  separation 

message: I've finally put in a translation of the letter of Date Masamune to the Pope, from Gonoi. The title is not included in the translation though. Here is the photograph. Can you make it out? Here is where I am at this point:
"MAGNI ET UNIVERSALIS SSQ3 (??)
Totus Orbis Domini Patris Pape Paulis podes cum profunda sumnuss (?) a reucrentia(?)
osculando y Date Masamune in Imperio Japonico Rex Voxy supliciter dicimus"
:OK, Here's what it says:
:MAGNI ET UNIVERSALIS SISQ3     (SISQ3 = Sanctissimique)
:totius Orbis Patris Domini Pape Pauli s. pedes cum profunda summisse et reuerentia     (s. prob. = sanctos, summisse prob. = summissione)
:osculando ydate masamune * Imperio Japonico Rex voxu suppliciter dicimus.     (I can't read whatever the * represents)
:"In kissing the Great and Universal, Most Holy Lord of The Entire World, Pope Paul's holy feet in profound submission and reverence,
:I, Idate Masamune *, King of Wôshû in(?) the Empire of Japan, suppliantly say..."
:There are a couple words where I'm debating what the best English translation should be (e.g. nobody says "suppliantly," even though it's in the dictionary, but I can't think of a better word), but other than that, the translation should be accurate. 
:I wonder if I could reconstruct the Latin of the rest of the letter by comparing Gonoi's translation to what I can see of the text ;) Probably a possibility, but likely too much work to do anytime soon. --Iustinus 07:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, this is impressive. I wonder where you learnt to decipher ancient Latin manuscripts. I've put the text in the body of the article. I'm glad I made the Sendai trip :) Best regards PHG 08:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Latin is something I just gobble up. Anyway, I have completed a draft transcription of the citizenship document, and made a cursory effort to transcribe the first line of the main text of the Masamune letter. Check the image pages for the work I've done so far. I haven't made any translation efforts yet, but I shoudl be able to do that with the citizenship document soon... it would be nice to figure out the patches marked with question marks fist though. --06:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've started translated the citizenship document. You'll probably want to wait until I get more done before quoting it,  but given your interest in the subject, I thought you might enjoy seeing what I've done so far. --Iustinus 16:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Translation done. Well, at least the first draft. I'd still like to go over it for errors (and let other people, especially ones who know Latin, take a look at it) before we do anything with it, but why don't you take a look at it now? I admit, I'm not sure how much it would add to the article to quote it, but I'll leave that decision to you. --Iustinus 07:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is great, and at least shows the amount of official praise that was lavished in this embassy. I think there is a mistype on the date at the end of the text: you write 1613, but I can see MDCXV on the document. Can you confirm? Does it mean the date from the foundation of Rome is mistaken? It's nice to work with so knowledgeable contributors. Would you happen to also know Greek? I happen to have a big unresolved mystery with :Image:AsokaKandahar.jpg. Regards PHG 10:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Argh, the date is indeed mistaken. This is frustrating both because it confuses people about my footnote, and because, well I noticed that mistake last night, and apparently forgot to fix it. As for the Greek, while I do know it, I am nowhere near as good at it as I am with Latin. That said, I posess a published transcription, translation, and annotation of that very inscription somewhere around here. If I have time over the next coupe days I'll help you with this (if not, you will probably have to wait until early July). --Iustinus 14:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Translating new images

message: I just made some minor corrections to the English of the article, in a number of places. I just wanted to point out a few things:
#"Malversation" does exist in English, but is a very rare word (I had honestly never heard it before seeing it in this article).
#"Interdiction" is also very rare in English, but for some reason it sounds correct to me in this article. Thus, I left it in, but I just wanted you to be aware for future reference that you should probably avoid it.
On a totally different note, I see that in the Spanish source, Masamune's name is spelled Joate. Given that other period sources spell his name Idate, is it possible that that o is actually a d? The J could also actually be an I, but that isn't necessary: since J and I are essentially still stylistic varients of the same letter in this period, Jdate (not to be confused with JDate ;) ) is a definite possibility. --Iustinus 15:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor corrections 

message: This ought to be a featured article candidate, it's very good! 195.137.85.17 00:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured Candidate? 

message: What the heck... what's the point of removing the year links? --Iustinus 21:05, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Year links 

message: Substituted at 14:55, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment