Wikipedia talk:Help Project/Archive 1

message: One possibility is to survey the whole help system, figure out what's there, and try to map it all out to see how it all links together.  --Go for it! 19:28, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The first task is to get a decent home page for the WikiProject.--:HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 13:51, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Before we ever want to decide on the order (or logical linkage) of things, I think we need to group things by subject/topic.  There is considerable overlap, and it can get maximally confusing with everything scattered about.  I tried some elementary grouping by topics on Starter toolset (just to illustrate one way of handling it).  In the end, a Wikipedia index would not be such a bad idea.
⇒  normxxx|  talk  ⇒  email 23:01, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What do you think we should do first?

message: Has a map of the new help system been considered? G Clark 23:35, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks interesting. Let's go with this and refine as we go.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 03:22, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Site map 

message: Hi everyone. I would just like to let you know that many of the Boot Camp regulars would like to help with the new system/structure, as the current is chaotic to say the least! We've discussed several suggestions, and personally I'd like to know what you think about a helpsystem in two parts; one aimed at the general users, and one aimed at the newbies? The part aimed at the newbies would contain much of the same as the general help, but with more focus on typical newbie issues, and without cluttering the page(s) with too much information. I'd like to know what you think of this. Bjelleklang  -  talk 23:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've started a newcomerpage on Wikipedia:WikiProject_Help/Temp_Newbiehelp. Please help if anyone feel like it, especially to shorten the descriptions and to make them more understandable. Bjelleklang  -  talk 15:07, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The new structure 

message: While trying to find certain items within the Help: namespace, I had to keep hitting links.  Most of the pages in the namespace are linked to from pages and/or link names that one wouldn't think a particular policy, guideline, or other help topic would be under.  I had to click 9 times to find Wikipedia:Notability.  Pages such as Wikipedia:Deletion policy and Wikipedia:Undeletion policy I had to click 47 and 49 times, respectively.  The navigation for this set of pages with policies, guidelines, and other helpful information needs to be redesigned, and the use of obscure link names needs to stop.  I'd never have thought to click Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion just to find, almost randomly, somewhere in the text a link to Wikipedia:Deletion policy.  (Lady Serena 03:33, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If I was given a list of all the help pages, I could probably build a navigation map with logical titles, and logical locations for all the content.  It might be a bit of a challenge, but it'd be fun. :3  (Lady Serena 02:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too Many Clicks / Obscure Navigation 

message: I have generated a list of pages in the Wikipedia namespace, from the January 25th enwiki db dump.  The total number of pages is 102,574, so I have weeded out duplicate RFA, VFD, POTD, ... pages to a more manageable number.  I also sorted the list by # of hits, and have listed the 1,000 most popular pages:
* Sorted by popularity
* Sorted alphabetically
I have begun sorting through these pages, as well as those beyond the 1,000 most popular.  This will be useful to better organize the community portal, as well as Help:Contents. --Aude (talk | contribs) 16:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Index of Wikipedia namespace pages 

message: The Help Project is considering taking on the clean-up of Wikpedia namespace.  We'd like to build a site-map, and in order to do this, we need a list of all pages in Wikipedia namespace...
I looked at Special:Allpages, but that only lists the pages one screen at a time, and without brackets.  Is there a way to get a list of all of the pages in one step, and with brackets?  I'd settle for getting a list in one step, with or without brackets.  --Go for it! 04:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you try Special:Prefixindex? And didn't we have already not one, but two sitemaps of the Wikipedia namespace, both out of date? --cesarb 04:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And won't this map be out-of-date even before it is started? :-) Seriously, I think a site-wide map of Wikipedia would be a great idea. I've been wanting something like that for a long time. The closest I've got so far is using :Category:Wikipedia to drill up and down through categories, but that relies on everything being categorised. Oops. Looks like it's been reorganised. I meant :Category:Wikipedia_administration, though that looks different. I was probably thinking of another category... Carcharoth 10:55, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not necessary to use Special:Prefixindex.  Special:Allpages is designed for such purposes, and has the list available. Superm401 - Talk 04:15, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Could you use a the database dumps? A little out of date but has the info you need. --Salix alba (talk) 15:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When the next dump is complete I can make the list, it will probably be in a few days. Martin 23:58, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I have the January 25 db dump loaded on my computer, so should be able to help.  I'm running the query now, but it's taking a while.  Must be a really long list of pages.  --Aude (talk | contribs) 00:12, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The number of pages in the Wikipedia namespace is really huge — 102,572.  Though, this includes every WP:RFC, WP:RFA, WP:POTD, WP:VFD, etc.  Thus, we can narrow the number of pages in the list, and sort it by popularity (hits). --Aude (talk | contribs) 00:33, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going through the list now, weeding out the duplicate pages (e.g. WP:VFD, WP:POTD, ...), as well as redirect pages, and formatting the list.  Right now, I have it down to 14,000 pages — still too many for any site map. --Aude (talk | contribs) 04:32, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: I need a list of all pages in the Wikipedia namespace - How is this done?

message: :copied from community portal draft talk page
I have generated a list of pages in the Wikipedia namespace, from the January 25th enwiki db dump.  The total number of pages is 102,574, so I have weeded out duplicate RFA, VFD, POTD, ... pages to a more manageable number.  I also sorted the list by # of hits, and have listed the 1,000 most popular pages:
* Sorted by popularity
* Sorted alphabetically
I have begun sorting through these pages, as well as those beyond the 1,000 most popular.  This will be useful to better organize the community portal, as well as Help:Contents. --Aude (talk | contribs) 16:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please coordinate this effort with that to improve the Community portal.  Some links might not need to be in both places.  I have started going through the list of links at User:Kmf164/Index. --Aude (talk | contribs) 18:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Index of Wikipedia namespace pages 

message: Many of the help pages are seriously out of date, or in need of cleaning up.  When you have a few spare minutes, please just go to the help page tree and click down to a page that catches your eye and proofread it.
:Glad to, but I need a link to the "tree" (and would appreciate a signature above).--TJ 12:42, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help page proofreading patrol 

message: We need to find all the help pages in the Help namespace and Wikipedia namespace that are not currently linked to from the Help Page tree / Help Page site map.  When you come across one, hook it in, or leave a note here, and someone else on the project will do it.  --Go for it! 13:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help Project orphan hunt 

message: * Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles
* Wikipedia:Guide to improving articles
* Wikipedia:How to write a great article
* Wikipedia:The perfect article
* Wikipedia:Guide to layout
5 articles about similar topics seems like overkill. I feel these should be merged into a single article, or a smaller number of articles - each with a distinct purpose. I was wondering what you all felt about naming, the number of articles and what content should be included? Gareth Aus 07:58, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles was condensed from many other articles. They are listed at Wikipedia:Selected editorial guidance. Maurreen 18:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't have a view about the rest, either for or against, but I feel WP:PERFECT is still useful on its own. It's rather different from the rest. Stephen Turner (Talk) 09:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree that it's overkill. Not sure what to suggest at the moment, but I thought you might be interested in the related Wikipedia_talk:Citing sources#Appendices and their order. --J. J. 21:42, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I've created a side-by-side comparison of "Guide to layout..." and "Guide to writing..." in order to improve the appendices order. If there are no objections, I'm going to try to work on it pretty quickly so I don't miss any important edits on either page. I'm not ready to merge them quite yet! User:RockOfVictory/Appendices_order_draft --J. J. 17:48, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Finished the appendices merge from WP:1SP to WP:GTL. --J. J. 20:32, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Excellent stuff. Good luck with the rest :) -Quiddity 19:36, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guides to improving articles 

message: Is this project still active and moving forward with a set of targets and goals?  I only ask because the help front page used to look nice and clean and professional, it now looks a bit like a mishmash of random bits and bobs that neither fit into one definite style or with a clear goal (the harassment policy link at the top of the page for no apparent reason being a good example).  
I am keen to help out and get a nice efficient help system, as I would say that one of WP's biggest problems is its "editing side" appearance to new users - both from the pov of the technical aspects (all the various editing shortcuts) and from the policies and guidelines side (a lot of new users simply don't know the do's and don’ts, and finding them (even for me) is a 10 minute process of hunting through the help pages.  Are there clear targets here (like the main page redesign project) or are the goals just to "fix typo's and grammar" type things.  SFC9394 20:05, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now, focus has been on the Community Portal.  I think we will come back to working on the help pages.  Your help in this would definitely be welcome.  I agree that it's quite difficult to find things on help, with the way it is now. --Aude (talk | contribs) 20:36, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers for the update, hopefully in time the help pages will get a full sort and clean done on them - in the meantime I will have a browse by the Community Portal Redesign and see if I can add anything helpful! SFC9394 17:05, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Activity? 

message: We have a screwed up documentation on reverting.  There's Help:Reverting, which consists of content copied from meta, with a template Template:Ph:Reverting included at the bottom.  It's currently the most-widely linked page on Reverting. But we also have Wikipedia:Reverting which is an entirely differnt page.  These obviously need to be merged.  Also there's the question of how, or where, to put the material we have that is a type of guideline/policy on Reverting.  The material is there, more or less, but it's quite disorderd.  I'm mainly mentioning this here so I (or someone else) will remember it. JesseW, the juggling janitor 04:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging various Revert help pages 

message: Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory.  This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you.   B2T2 13:46, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project directory 

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention.  Badbilltucker 18:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards