Talk:Saturn return

message: ===Crises of Development===
Though birth chart remains the same throughout the lifetime, life is not static. Even the planets are moving in their respective orbits, which affect an individual moment to moment. A seed is born at the time of birth. Inherent growth pattern of this seed is represented by the horoscope. Each individual gradually evolves as per his own unique pattern. During the process of this unfolding an individual goes through certain types of crises. At these times he is vulnerable and likely to breakdown. If he successfully goes through these delicate cycles, he is transformed in to a better human being. These cycles of transformations are called Metanoia. There are two types of crises. One, which is specific type of crisis that is reflected in individual birth chart and the other which is generalized. We all pass through these generalized crises of development such as adolescence, menopause, midlife crisis, the onset of old age etc. They are part of our development and are inevitable. During these crises an individual goes through a remarkable transformation. These generalized crises of development correspond to planetary cycles. For example when Saturn transits over its natal Saturn, which is known as Saturn Return, an individual goes through major transformation. Similarly, when Saturn transits opposite to natal Saturn, which is known as Saturn Opposition, an individual goes through one more crisis of development. Generally these cycles take place around twenty nine, thirty five, and fifty nine years of age. Uranus Opposition also causes a major crisis of development in an individual’s life. Generally it occurs around forty years of age. We all have to pass through these generalized crises of development at about the same age. But we do not go through the same conflicts or face the same type of circumstances. Each of us goes through the conflicts as per our own individual birth charts. We have to resolve the issues in accordance with the unique pattern we are born with. We have to follow our unique path that is inherent in our individual birth charts. It is advisable to go through these cycles of development with positive attitude. If we try to avoid or react negatively to these crises, they keep on repeating themselves. So it is wise to face the issues positively and resolve them once and for all, so that we are ready for the next cycle of evolvement. 
Though theses cycles generate a lot of pain and suffering, they are gradual processes and do not occur overnight. They give us an opportunity to experience various aspects of our nature. The purpose of such crises is to attune us in perfect harmony with the Universe, so that we stop living a fragmented life and can experience the wholeness. As a result we develop a knack of doing the right thing at the right time and everything falls in to place. Thus we can experience real peace and happiness. gypcywoman 05:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The following POV junk was removed -- please don't post this junk here anymore 

message: Though birth chart remains the same throughout the lifetime, life is not static. Even the planets are moving in their respective orbits, which affect an individual moment to moment. A seed is born at the time of birth. Inherent growth pattern of this seed is represented by the horoscope. Each individual gradually evolves as per his own unique pattern. During the process of this unfolding an individual goes through certain types of crises. At these times he is vulnerable and likely to breakdown. If he successfully goes through these delicate cycles, he is transformed in to a better human being. These cycles of transformations are called Metanoia. There are two types of crises. One, which is specific type of crisis that is reflected in individual birth chart and the other which is generalized. We all pass through these generalized crises of development such as adolescence, menopause, midlife crisis, the onset of old age etc. They are part of our development and are inevitable. During these crises an individual goes through a remarkable transformation. These generalized crises of development correspond to planetary cycles. For example when Saturn transits over its natal Saturn, which is known as Saturn Return, an individual goes through major transformation. Similarly, when Saturn transits opposite to natal Saturn, which is known as Saturn Opposition, an individual goes through one more crisis of development. Generally these cycles take place around twenty nine, thirty five, and fifty nine years of age. Uranus Opposition also causes a major crisis of development in an individual’s life. Generally it occurs around forty years of age. We all have to pass through these generalized crises of development at about the same age. But we do not go through the same conflicts or face the same type of circumstances. Each of us goes through the conflicts as per our own individual birth charts. We have to resolve the issues in accordance with the unique pattern we are born with. We have to follow our unique path that is inherent in our individual birth charts. It is advisable to go through these cycles of development with positive attitude. If we try to avoid or react negatively to these crises, they keep on repeating themselves. So it is wise to face the issues positively and resolve them once and for all, so that we are ready for the next cycle of evolvement. 
Though theses cycles generate a lot of pain and suffering, they are gradual processes and do not occur overnight. They give us an opportunity to experience various aspects of our nature. The purpose of such crises is to attune us in perfect harmony with the Universe, so that we stop living a fragmented life and can experience the wholeness. As a result we develop a knack of doing the right thing at the right time and everything falls in to place. Thus we can experience real peace and happiness. gypcywoman 05:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Crises of Development

message: Came here on a random walk (I am in no way an expert in this subject and am not qualified to make any edits myself). The following paragraphs from the intro read like they were copied verbatim out of a "my first astrology book" 
:The first Saturn Return is famous [really? I never heard of it.] because it represents the first test of character and the structures a person has built their life upon [according to whom? what is the "first" test of character? what "structures" do we mean?]. According to traditions [which traditions?], should these structures be unsound, [what "structures"? "unsound" how?] or if a person is living out of touch with his or her true values, the Saturn Return will be a time of upheaval and limitations as Saturn forces him or her to jettison old concepts and worn out patterns of living [this is the mushiest sentence I have ever read in an "encyclopedic" context.] It is not uncommon for relationships and jobs to end during this time of life restructuring and reevaluation [again, according to whom?].
:But the Saturn Return is not all about painful endings [oh, thanks for reassuring me. I was so worried!]. During this time astrologers [which ones? all of them? western and eastern? modern and ancient?] note that goals are consolidated and people tend to gain a better vision of where they are going in life. There are added responsibilities [what responsibilities? "there are" where? from what source?] and a person may reap the rewards from his or her hard work [newspaper astrological predictions are better written]. Many major life milestones seem to happen around the ages of 29 and 30 [no shit. who is making this observation? how is this encyclopedic?]. This is why astrologers believe that the thirtieth birthday is such a major rite of passage because it marks the true beginning of adulthood, self-evaluation, independence, ambition, and self-actualization [citation, citation, citation, citation].
:The planet Saturn represents many archetypes, such as Father Time, the Grim Reaper and his scythe, Chronos, and the Lord of Karma [wait... Chronos = Greco-Roman, Karma = Eastern/Indian, or am I terribly confused?]. It is the ruler of limitations, fears, seriousness, responsibilities, burdens, and lessons [according to whom?]. While those concepts may come across as negative, Saturn also astrologically rules over civilization, government, structures, harvests, prestige, maturity, and order [again according to whom? and in this context, what does it mean for Saturn to "rule over" something?].
This whole section reads as POV and original research, comes off as a believer talking to an initiate as opposed to an objective reporter sharing facts, and turned me off from reading the rest of the article.
That is all.
98.190.216.2 (talk) 15:01, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Entire article needs "citation needed" "who" and "pov" tags 

message: Speaking as a (Scientist / learned elder / wise MAN) I have never heard of Saturn's Return 
Therefore it must all be made up bullshit
Science, as we all know, is all about reading text books and getting exam questions right.
Watching shit happen and passing comment is unscientific 
Nevermind the history of the word Saturn, the role it (the planet, yes now we all know its a planet what with the rockets and glass tubes and shit) has played in death from many cultures whose only link is genetic (a medieval blasphemy) 
Yeah what we really need is a new Stalin or Mao who would erase the old and make us all factory hens
Or you could wake up
81.109.247.189 (talk) 23:34, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  I never 

message: "With the first Saturn return, a person leaves youth behind and enters adulthood. With the second return, maturity. With the third return, more maturity and carefulness. And with the fourth and usually final return, a person enters wise old age. These periods are estimated to occur at roughly the ages of 27–31, 56–60 and 84–90. A fifth return occurs for very few people: those who live to see the age of 114–118."
Something is off here. As this article says, the first Saturn return occurs at the ages of 27-31, then second at 56-60, and the third at 84-90... Yet the article talks about a fourth saturn return in which a person enters wise old age... It then goes on to say that some people reach a fifth saturn return! I believe it should be:
"With the first Saturn return, a person leaves youth behind and enters adulthood. With the second return, maturity. With the third and usually final return, a person enters wise old age. These periods are estimated to occur at roughly the ages of 27–31, 56–60 and 84–90. A fourth return occurs for very few people: those who live to see the age of 114–118."
I don't know enough about Wikipedia to edit this, so I thought I'd put it here so a wiser Wikipidier can decide what to do with it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.170.36.92 (talk) 06:50, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone Should Fix This 

message: ...you'd never know that from reading this article. It's important to label any astrology-related articles with appropriate warnings. RobertLovesPi (talk) 19:43, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Astrology is still bullshit, and....