Talk:Polish cavalry

message: I Ask ....Why does all this read so much like the propagandized version of soviet bolshevik propoganda from the 50/60 sixties? This was not  real history but a carfully orchestrated version of misinformation ie calling german propeganda officers as worthy while degrading the polish victims. What is the source of this mis -information David Irving ? why is this information so pro nazi and pro stalin communist ?
It's strange that the page is on Polish cavalry, then it is talking about Ułani, and then it does not talk at all about Ułani and instead describes hussaria!!!! What the hell?!
:Indeed, but what do we do about it? Halibutt 13:31, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:   Old talk 

message: The history of the "cavalry versus tanks" story needs to be covered more thoroughly. At least through the 1960's history books in the U.S. and some scholarly World War 2 histories maintained that Polish cavalry units were slaughtered charging tanks. with sabers. Maybe this was wrong, but it had real world effects. See Time magazine  for August 19, 1940, which says "That first week in September the famed Polish cavalry threw itself into the path of the German mechanized columns, and was swept out of the way like rubbish." The New York Times and other major papers during and after World War 2 also repeated the story. The U.S. Army  greatly cut back its cavalry units after the defeat of Polish cavalry and other armed forces by the Nazis and Soviets. Was the belief in the truth of the claimed fiasco the force behind this cutback in cavalry units in other armed forces? The Time article noted that the Germans still used cavalry, and that cavalry could move faster through woods, across creeks and swamps an in hill country than any mechanized force. "History of the war in Europe," published by the Associated Press May 8, 1945 (Viewed via Newspaperarchive (subscription) as printed in The Bradford Archive, May 8, 1945, p 25) said ""Amazing armored spearheads sliced through the Polish cavalry divisions to the Wisla (Vistula), trapping a huge army in to Kutnowest of Warsaw, and another at random to the south." "On borrowed time: How World War 2 began" by Leonard Mosley (1969) presents without question the accounts of Polish cavalry charging German infantry and Germans in open cars, who withdrew to reveal Guderian's German tanks, which slaughtered the charging Polish cavalry. Mosley was a reporter in Europe before and at the start of the war. Some U.S. Generals believed in the truth of the "myth" as in this address delivered at the Air Force Academy in 1981: "It was this kind of thinking that led to the presence of two regular horse cavalry divisions at the Army maneuvers in Louisiana in 1940, long after courageous but futile Polish cavalry lancers had been decimated when charging invading Nazi panzer columns." from  Air University Review, September-October 1983, "Of Saber Charges, Escort Fighters, and Spacecraft; the search of doctrine" by Major General I. B. Holley, Jr., Air Force Reserve (Ret). He cited as references for the statement: George T. Hoffman, "Tactics vs Technology: The U.S. Cavalry Experience" 82 Armor, September 1973, p. 14." and J. K. Herr and Edmond S. Wallace, "The Story of the U.S. Cavalry" (Boston, 1953),page 256.  "Wartime: Understanding and Behavior in the Second World War " by Paul Fussell, 1989, Oxford University Press, page 5 still presents the account of the Polish cavalry being slaughtered in a few minutes when charging German tanks. When did the point of view presented in this article first prevail, if it in fact does among military historians, that the "sabers against tanks" cavalry charge never took place? Are there varying schools of thought about the truth of it today? If so to have a neutral point of view those with reliable sources should be covered in the article. Edison (talk) 21:55, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to see what Polish sources are cited from the time of the battle, to refute the German sources claiming that the Polish cavalry was slaughtered by German armor. We generally do not completely ignore accounts of a battle from the generals or official military records of the losing side. As for "what unit, what battle, etc this appears to refers to what is termed in Wikipedia the Krojanty affair. Another question is how much more successful sabers would be against armored cars from which machine guns were being fired, than against tanks from which machine guns were being fired.Were WW2 cavalry sabers able to penetrate the armor on German armored cars? Edison (talk) 07:37, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Krojanty was not charge on tanks. Krojanty was charge on infantry, effect of unexpected meeting of Polish cavalry and German unit, with decision on charge taken within maybe few seconds. POlish participants confirm, that they charged infantry, and then suddenly they were under fire from "tanks". But we know from elsewhere that there were no tanks there, just armoured cars.  Guderian was not witness there, he just wrote what he heard, that's all. As for your joke about sabers, i presume it was a joke, right? Szopen (talk) 10:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really a joke, just the observation that it would be just as one-sided a contest when men on horseback with sabers, pistols or carbines fought against tanks which were firing machine guns or against armored cars firing machine guns. The account in Moseley says that the infantry and open cars were seen by the cavalry leading to a charge, at which time they withdrew and tanks were there behind them. The presence of the tanks/armored cars may have been "unexpected" only on the part of the cavalry. What are the  sources used to support the newer accounts of Krojanty against the earlier accounts I listed? Are there official Polish military archives to set against the official German ones? Did Polish cavalry who participatd in the battle publish accounts of it? Edison (talk) 15:58, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Please wait few days. I will go to my home library and note few accounts. Because, of course, there such documents. Szopen (talk) 12:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Perceptions of Polish cavalry

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Bitwa pod Komarowem w 1920 roku.jpg

message: This article is currently at start/C class, but could be improved to B-class if it had more (inline) citations.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 01:43, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: B-class review

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