Talk:OpenEdge Advanced Business Language/Archive 1

message: Markthompson wi 02:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits to the article 

message: I'm something of a newbie so forgive some some of the failings of "inexperience" regarding my additions here. However, what specifically might you consider notable, for instance vs. the Awk or PICK or some other less than popular language.
Could you perhaps provide a reference to something which exists in another language wiki which does not exist here?
I am genuinely interested in helping this have it's own niche in ths scheme of things, as it has been a relatively popular language for business application use for about 20 years.  
Certainly examples of code be appropriate considering this is a language but would that be sufficient - a comparison/contrast vs. some other language?
 
As far as published media is concerned the Progress community is rather tightly held and collectively somewhat - shy - so there is a definite shortage of such but no more so than the published books exclusively dedicated to "Awk" for example.
Markthompson wi 03:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whats needed is criteria establishing WP:NOTE. This has been another editors concern as well. I see your enthusiastic, and by no means am i attempting to deter you from contributing good context. However, since the first question of notability arose, most citations (by others as well) have not been multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself. thanks--Hu12 04:22, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Question for Editor Hu12

message: Markthompson wi 20:26, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Progress 4GL to 4GL developed by Progress Software Corporation 

message: I used to think Wikipedia was a good thing. However, it now occurs to me that it has fallen under the influence of the tree killers, blindly following the assumption that the only knowledge worth repeating is that which a tree has died for. There are hundreds of thousands of primary and secondary sources of information about Progress 4GL.  It's a computer language. It, its constructs and its developers live in cyberspace. The discussions about it live in cyberspace. The manuals are distributed on-line, help is done on-line, its professional journal is online. Its a green language. But according to wikipedia standards, if a book hasn't been written, if a tree hasn't died, it doesn't count. Greg.Higgins@peg.com 13:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would have been nice if Greg.Higgins@peg.com had cited even one of those secondary sources ... Saligron 15:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why bother? I walked the diff tree from back to front. Hu12 is busy ripping out any mention of the Progress community at large where these discussions take place. You won't allow citations from our professional journals, nor references from the manuals, nor citations or commentary from experts who have used the language for over 20 years. Datapro references don't seem to count, nor do VAR Business references; years from now, when someone actually gets around to writing about the 4GL explosion of languages of the 1980's, someone's going to look back and observe that of that era, there were very few successful 4GLs. PROGRESS will be among them. (Or maybe not, you'll have removed all references to it.)Greg.Higgins@peg.com 19:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please don't accuse me of something I haven't done. Saligron 23:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You won't allow citations from our professional journals. Whats needed is multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself. Which excludes the repeated additions of progress links and self referencing. This is an encyclopedia, not a link farm. Saligron has mentioned WP:NN#Notability is not popularity, so please provide something, even if its from an independent trade journal. Also it has been suggested you change your username at Wikipedia:Changing username. E-mail addresses as usernames are not allowed and will eventualy be disabled. It raises questions of WP:COI and links to PEG.com and the related are treated as COI Advertising. I do Assume you, and the other Single purpose account's who's only contributions are to "progress" related articles are here to improve Wikipedia -- not just to promote Progress and funnel readers off Wikipedia, right?--Hu12 10:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I have made minor contributions some articles. I have not contributed to this article at all, except to add PEG to the external links. PEG is an independent source of information about the PROGRESS 4GL, and, at the time, early 2006, it seemed appropriate. Someone later came along and defaced the entry and made it point to ProgressTalk, a minor competitor, and I added PEG in again, leaving the ProgressTalk entry in place, since I'm not petty. Since I spell better than most people, I have a tendency to correct spelling errors, and sometimes the odd error in grammer, in articles I read. I'm also extraordinarily careful to be absolutely positive before I make a change, and if I'm less than 100% sure, I do nothing. I'm a reader, not a writer, outside my area of expertise. To classify me as a single purpose account is the height of elitism. Greg.Higgins@peg.com 12:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I have made minor contributions some articles. I have not contributed to this article at all, except to correct the spelling of Progress E-Mail Group and place it in alphabetical order with other non-PSC links. Every addition of PEG to the article came from someone else. I have walked the diff chain from front to Jan 2007 to verify this. PEG is an independent source of information about the PROGRESS 4GL. It is the world's largest Progress Users Group and generally the heart of the Progress community, so it is easy to see why some people might think that a link to PEG would be valuable to folks wanting to know more about Progress, particularly those folks who are interested in an up to date view of the language. Apparently HU12 thinks differently, since he's made a habit of removing the external links. It's appears to be his mission in life. My participation  in general has been here, not in the article. Greg.Higgins@peg.com 13:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Since I spell better than most people, I have a tendency to correct spelling errors, and sometimes the odd error in grammer, in articles I read. I'm also extraordinarily careful to be absolutely positive before I make a change, and if I'm less than 100% sure, I do nothing. I'm a reader, not a writer, outside my area of expertise. To classify me as a single purpose account is the height of elitism. Greg.Higgins@peg.com 12:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My EMail address is my online identity. It tells who I am, and where you can find me. I'm sorry if my association with Wikipedia predates some rule which I've never seen and you seem to have pulled out of nowhere. I have no intention of changing my user name. To what? ABLsaurusRex? Would that somehow tell you more? I firmly believe that all user names should be email addresses. It's the one thing I always remember. Greg.Higgins@peg.com 12:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I concede the point, I have submitted the request for change.Greg.Higgins@peg.com 17:37, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: FYI - The Peg is not a profit making venture.  It is a technical mailing list and web site for Progress related technology.  The largest and longest running that is independent of Progress Software.As I understand the COI it is inappropriate for Greg to refer to or write about Peg.  But I am unsure whether it is appropriate/allowed for someone else to refer to or link to the Peg as an independent technical resource for Progress. -- Thanks, Stephen 20:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Minor note. PEG is always written in the same case; all upper or all lower, never mixed case.Greg.Higgins@peg.com 12:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Tyranny of the Tree Killers

message: I believe that there is full agreement that this article needs a rewrite.
The article does not conform to Wikipedia standards, but I believe the subject matter does merit an entry which should be obvious once the article is re-written to standard.
The threat of deletion has sparked interest amongst the Progress Developer community some of whom will soon be producing a more encyclopaedic article.
Please be patient with us while we become familiar with the Wikipedia standards and hopefully produce an acceptable article.
Stephen 23:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite 

message: I have removed all the cra^H^H^Hstuff and started fresh. I'm in ABQ, and I doubt that we have a library large enough to have copies of Datapro, but some someone who has access to older copies of datapro might one to consult one of their articles. They were, at least in the 80's and early 90's an independent source evaluating the capabilities of various 4GLs and other application development environments. Greg.Higgins@peg.com 17:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Starting Fresh