Talk:List of Espada in Bleach

message: I've looked at The Weasley Family & Death Eater, and added the character template for each espada. I think it makes the page look more organised. If you wanna discuss this, or make changes, let's talk! RedEyesMetal (talk) 13:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The individual entries are not long enough to support infoboxes, creating a lot of whitespace were they to be used. What would be put in the infobox can be found in the text. ~SnapperTo 04:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I take it that you simply watch the anime.  There's nothing wrong with that.  I am a big fan of the anime myself, but the manga goes farther than the anime does, and in cases where they catch up, they use filler.  In the manga, Nnoitra probably did release his zanpakuto. Sasuke9031 (talk) 20:36, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Forget what I just said.  Snap already made the change. Sasuke9031 (talk) 20:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

text: The IP user is absolutely right.  I do not know about the Jap but since we are talking about Arrancar, and they use spanish names for everything, including their zanpakutō, it is safe to say that the name has no jap reference.  As for the spanish, who knows, and who cares?  Nnoitra is just going to end up killed anyway... Sasuke9031 (talk) 20:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, you can't say that...every manga arrancar's zanpakuto has had a Japanese spelling along with a Spanish reading. (I'd pull it off ja:Wiki, but for some reason that page is protected so Nnoitra's zanpakuto isn't up yet...it got protected probably because one user vehemently objected to me adding the official Romanizations of their surnames as opposed to just their given names?)—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  About The Characters 

message: This is just a suggestion, but do you guys think there should be a side by side picture of the espada and their releases as the series goes on, like with Luppi. Also, shouldn't noitra get a short plot summary, like szyael and the other espada that have been merged?--Sanji_1990 (talk) 23:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, good idea. And thank you to whoever, trimmed Szyael into 4 nice pargraphs...RedEyesMetal (talk) 07:57, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you to whoever brought a side by side picture of szyael. By the way, I haven't been watching the anime much lately, but did they show Szyael's animated picture yet? Because we could use that picture for his face if they did.--Sanji_1990 (talk) 01:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: At the moment, having manga by manga is preferable. Besides, the color shot is well done. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 01:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Now that Nnoitra has Released there should be a picture like Szayels of him in original form and Released side by side...should do the same for Zommari LeRoux too.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.102.79.38 (talk) 17:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: Should the Privaron Espada be moved to this article? They're former Espada just like Neliel, after all. 76.123.216.96 (talk) 08:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, they are former espada, but they're different from Nel. For now it's probably to keep them in their original spots or something.--Sanji_1990 (talk) 20:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Privaron Espada

message: http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-o6-49-en-70-2j57.html
Saw this and was wondering which is correct, or would this mean he has two acceptable spellings like Grimmjow's last name?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.251.237.133 (talk) 20:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Szayelaporro

message: Why exactly was this split? Both of these lists can be trimmed quite a bit, so splitting them doesn't really make much sense. TTN (talk) 20:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing as their was no real attempt to condense anything, I don't really see how it makes much more sense. A very good deal could be trimmed or cut. Just for Szayel, if you cut the unnecessary plot summary and summarize the zanpakutō details much more briefly, it easily has two paragraphs. TTN (talk) 02:27, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: TTN, please read WP:CONS. Sasuke9031 (talk) 03:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What does that have to do with anything? Am I redirecting the list? No. I have started a discussion inquiring why it was unnecessarily split in the first place. TTN (talk) 03:34, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was spilt due to a consensus reached over at the talk on the list of hollows page.  You can read it there if you want. Sasuke9031 (talk) 03:36, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I already know that. The consensus of small groups doesn't always make sense. I'm wondering why people felt it was necessary when the hollow page can easily be cut in half, and this one can probably be cut down by one fourth. TTN (talk) 03:54, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And I cannot help but wonder why you insist on turning the entirety of Wikipedia into a one sentence article that says, "This is the Earth." Sasuke9031 (talk) 04:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For the moment, all hands are tied. Why not pick this up when it's an issue that can actually be resolved one way or another? — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 07:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Cheaper to host =D AnimeNikkaJamal (talk) 02:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Why was this split?

message: If anyone recalls when Nnoitra had his own article there was mention of him having an ability to sense this opponents' reiatsu, which is what he was doing with his finger on the ground after defeating Chad and when Zaraki showed up.  At the time this was discounted because there was no viable source to confirm this.  However, episode 160 of the anime provides an answer to his actions.  Indeed, he was checking for reiatsu levels both times; the first to search for a strong opponent and the second to gauge Zaraki's strength (During the previews Tesla asks what Nnoitra was doing with his finger touching the ground, to which he replies "That's how I search for different reiatsu in Las Noches."  So whoever provided that info was indeed very correct.  I've made a mention of this ability in the article. Kyouraku-taichou (talk) 02:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoever removed my alteration needs to rethink themselves a bit.  That ability is unique to Nnoitra; it is his ability and we have seen no one use it before, so it merits a mention in the paragraph about his abilities.  That would be like not mentioning Grimmjow's powerful roaring; which we do, so Nnoitra's unique power-sensing ability should be noted.  I don't see why it wouldn't be. Kyouraku-taichou (talk) 04:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Yeah, because everything the anime gives us is definitely canon, like filler, God forbid... 207.80.142.5 (talk) 15:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Like the bount, no? We're counting that as canon because it's shown in the manga and explained in the anime. Encyclopedic mprovement of the article is ultimately what's most important, not wiki-burocracy. AnimeNikkaJamal (talk) 17:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Pray tell, when were the Bount mentioned in the manga? 207.80.142.5 (talk) 14:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Excuse me, the first "that" in my post was referring to Nnoitra's ability, and subsequently the entire sentence. I only mentioned Bounts off-handedly as a device to clear the air of the elitist "lol filler crap" attitude.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by AnimeNikkaJamal (talk • contribs) 02:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

text: They're not always jokes. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 02:50, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Switching to a username won't make your point any more valid. He uses it twice in the manga, and for the same purpose. The anime explains it clearly for us. Reliable. Since two people are against you, let it go. You won't get to dilute it simply because you dislike the anime. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 00:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: lol I only signed on because I was working on other pages. And just so you know, there are just as many against you, your no better in this argument. I switched it to the manga chapter, which works just as fine and is reliable. But your anime example isn't plain and simple. So its says this ability like you wanted and its verified which was my only problem, so there is no need to debate this any further. Ditch88 (talk) 03:48, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Really, I count you and your IP, and other editors who've caved in. Two to one is the current. Regardless, since you're satisfied, it's all good. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 03:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

text: This is not the place to debate it, but just to clear it up for you. that ability differs from what Nnoitra is shown to do. Pesquisa is, from what the manga has said, to be an ability to heighten the senses of an arrancars nerves so that they may sense spiritual pressure. Nnoitra is the only one to show any sign of being able to use it in a sonar fasion and so for the time being, yes, it is unique to him.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.163.72 (talk) 04:01, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So why does it say in the Wikipedia article that pesquisa functions "similar to sonar?" 70.138.167.143 (talk) 19:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Nnoitra's abilities

message: He definitely needs his own page, as he has a lot more focus in the manga now.
i dont know, i mean ulquiorra has his own page and he never does anything
68.238.93.19 (talk) 17:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless of how much "focus" the manga gives him. The real question is, is there enough third-party coverage from reliable sources to justify an independent article? --Farix (Talk) 18:32, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

text: If you want to know why ulquiorra hasn't been merged yet, read Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters 2 this. Sasuke9031 (talk) 18:17, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Frankly, I don't see why Nnoitra would need his own page.  Even with regards to in-universe importance, there's not much to say about him.  His importance to the story is virtually nil, with his only action of any significance being the expulsion of Neliel from Las Noches in the backstory.  Outside of that, his role has been minimal and easily replaceable, much like the majority of the Espada.  At present, the only Arrancar that have enough thrust within the story to possibly warrent their own pages would seem to be Ulquiorra (due to being a driving factor of the Hueco Mundo arc as a whole) and Grimmjow (due to being a constant force within the arc and showing greater character growth than almost all of his counterparts).  68.5.90.236 (talk) 07:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nnoitra 

message: Isn't it possible that Cirucci should in fact be read as Circe?  Thats how I would translate her name.  141.133.170.111 (talk) 18:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pulling out my signature move here.  Source it. Sasuke9031 (talk) 21:17, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Couldn't he say the same to you, as in provide the source that says Cirucci is read Cirucci?Muramasa itachi (talk) 00:56, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the guys who said that it was Cirucci used WP's Japanese helper.  Of course the romanization of Cirucci Thunderwitch isn't as easy as say, Ichigo Kurosaki, but there is a help page on this encyclopedia for Japanese. Sasuke9031 (talk) 01:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia doesn't count as a citable source, if I recall correctly from Verifiability. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 15:06, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cirucci Thunderwitch 

message: Hi, In the Spanish wikipedia they note that each of the known Espada is named more or less after a real-world artist.
I think it's an interesting information, although I don't think we have any reference for it.
I list here the Espada and their namesakes:
* Stark -> Philippe Starck
* Barragan -> Luis Barragán
* Halibel -> Harry Bell Measures or Halle Berry, undecided
* Ulquiorra -> Patricia Urquiola
* Nnoitra -> Richard Neutra
* Grimmjow -> Nicholas Grimshaw
* Luppi -> Italo Lupi
* Zommari Leroux -> Jean-Baptiste Leroux
* Szayel Aporro Granz -> Alejandro Zaera Polo
* Aaroniero -> Eero Aarnio
* Yammy -> Hisila Yami
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.187.107.210 (talk) 15:57, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Barragan maybe...but Halle Berry?—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 16:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Haliberu is the Japanese version of her name, after all. Also, I ordered the list above to match the Espada's numbers, or presumed in the case of the top three. StardustDragon (talk) 14:55, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I think it would be useful, but I don't think they'd let us because of lack of sources. --Wafry (talk) 19:22, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Espada's Names 

message: OK, seeing as how the injunction is over, the merging of Ulquiorra and Grimmjow is still up for grabs.  Please share your views here... Sasuke9031 (talk) 05:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment: Though I have to assume good faith here, this reason is not very good, and it reeks of WP:ILIKEIT.  Just because an article is liked, does not mean it has to be kept.  Please take a look at WP:N and WP:FICT. Sasuke9031 (talk) 21:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Agree with Sasuke-kun, and for those reasons it's not a contributive nor compelling reason. I believe his arguments or pathetic lack thereof should be dropped and ignored. DiamondDragon (talk) 23:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

text: All of the above comments are WP:ILIKEIT or assertions that they're "important." Neither meets WP:FICT. Merge both. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 00:07, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

text: It doesn't matter whatsoever what happens in the next fight. Neither could pass under WP:OBVIOUS, and neither will have enough real world material besides appearances in japanese video games. There's also a serious lack of reliable 3rd party sources. Here's the number one rule for articals pertaining to fiction: What happens in the fictional universe means shit. Even if Ulquirra were to reveal that he's the father of Luke Skywalker, it would mean nothing. What matters the subject's impact and notoriety in OUR world, which neither Grimmjow or Ulquirra seem to have impressed enough to warrant their own article. Quit stalling for time(WP:CRYSTAL) and merge those things already. Do it right and their new entires on this page will encyclopediacly function just fine. AnimeNikkaJamal (talk) 10:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, well, I'm sure the thing about Luke Skywalker could help :))) --deerstop (talk) 12:45, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

text: By this guy's logic, we should merge it then unmerge the day the new chapter comes out. Rinse and repeat said cycle. Although I've already agreed to merge them both, it's worth keeping in mind that Grimmjow has been proven to be based off of a character from Kubo's previous mangas, which could come in handy in arguments for his notability. Just thought I'd throw it out there. StardustDragon (talk) 14:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can find source material on that THEN and ONLY THEN can Grimmjow be kept.  And please don't let it be a fourm or fansite.  Those do not establish notability. Sasuke9031 (talk) 19:37, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought it was already quoted in an interview on the page at some point. When I'm not so tired I'll dig it up in older incarnations of the page if need be. 70.138.167.143 (talk) 20:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

text:  "Grimmjow's character design draws heavily from Gamma Akutabi, a character in Tite Kubo's earlier manga, Zombie Powder. Gamma has prosthetics in the same area where Grimmjow has his remnant hollow mask. They both share a missing arm, although both on different sides. Grimmjow's released form makes the resemblance even more apparent with similar long spiky hair. The two have also been identically posed for volume covers." The volume covers part is the best I could find for now. StardustDragon 01:06, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But where's the source?  I can't just add this in without sourcing it.  That would be bad. Sasuke9031 (talk) 02:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You need a source to tell you that the two have been identically posed? Or do you want the two volume covers, or what? I don't see why you need a source to point out an obvious semblance, unless the covers themselves would count as sources.207.80.142.5 (talk) 14:08, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge, revisited... 

message: Would it be possible for the following to be included somewhere in the article. Some mention of the likelihood(Sp?) of the bodies hanging in Sazael aporro's laboratory being Cirruci Thunderwitch and Dordonii?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.115.99 (talk) 18:25, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Source it. IceUnshattered (talk) 13:03, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Also, the one that looks like it could be Cirucci is taller than the other body. No way is Dordonii shorter than Cirucci. 71.203.209.0 (talk) 02:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible speculation 

message: The picture does contain the current espada but there is no particular order.  It would be easier to read this article if you could scroll up to the picture and see the faces in order rather than its currently jumbled state.  I've painstakingly cut the images so that they go by descending rank.  link: http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7529/espada1ou3.png
Ultimantorca (talk) 08:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But are you sure the top 3 are in the correct order?  The rest are fine, but Stark,  Halibel, and Barragan have me concerned since I do not know their numbers. Sasuke9031 (talk) 08:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I say leave it alone for now rather than reordering the image to guess at their ranks. 71.203.209.0 (talk) 02:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture Change 

message: I just wanted to point out that Mira Rose as depicted by Kubo Tite is not dark skinned that was an addition/swap done by studio pierott when they made Hallebel somewhat tanned instead of dark skinned as she is depicted by Kubo Tite  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.88.215.253 (talk) 19:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Mira Rose

message: I have heard that Tite Kubo  stated that Stark will not fight Ichigo or any Captain, yet he will fight someone else. What Kubo meant by this however, is, as of yet, unknown.Grimmjow E6 (talk) 02:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have some legitimate sources, we can probably put in the article but it might as well be fan speculation. Please note that Wikipedia discussion is not a forum to discuss Bleach. It is to discuss how to make the article better. -71.190.180.67 (talk) 18:46, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Christ. Wikis and fansites are not sources. Any idiot can edit a wiki and put that Kubo said that. It doesn't make it true unless it cited another verifiable source. StardustDragon 00:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stark 

message: When we type in Espada in the search bar, is it possible to redirect the search to the List of Espada. I'm pretty sure when people type in Espada they meant to get this article instead of sword. Or even if it redirects to sword can we make a disambiguation page? -71.190.180.67 (talk) 21:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Mucho thanks, it helps a lot -01:25, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect