Talk:Goya's Ghosts

message: Note that edits inserting supposed information about "Marc Tufano" are vandalism and should be reverted on sight.  This has affected multiple articles (Robert De Niro, The Beatles, etc. etc.) -- Curps 18:05, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Tufano" vandalism 

message: This article was automatically  assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: ===make it clearer===
I just watched this film.  It was fun except for the fact to discover that pretty much all of it was not true.  As the Wikipedia page says, "Although the historical setting of the movie is authentic, the story itself is pure fiction.".  But actually that statement is still somewhat misleading: for instance the painter Goya existed.  However his apparent involvement in trying to save a daughter of a friend, and then her daughter, is, I guess, fictional.  The gist is, I like what is true & what is fiction to be clearer on the Wikipedia page, maybe especially because the film ISN'T clear on this.  And probably the easiest & quickest way would be to update the cast list to something as the following:
Actor            	Role
Natalie Portman  	Inés/Alicia (fictional)
Javier Bardem    	Lorenzo (fictional)
Stellan Skarsgård	Francisco Goya (existed)
Randy Quaid      	King Carlos IV (existed)
Michael Lonsdale 	Father Gregorio (fictional?)
Julian Wadham    	Joseph Bonaparte (existed?)
Thoughts?  Maybe some expert wiki editor on this page could go do this. :-) MBParker (talk) 05:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno, I came to this article wondering about the same things, and the present text was quite sufficient for me. For example, the wikilinked characters are real, and the others aren't. I don't think that sentence is misleading - you can have an entirely fictional story which features a real-life character.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 20:41, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Lorenzo is very obviously Juan Antonio Llorente: their careers are remarkably similar with even a Goya portrait (until 1814, when Llorente escaped to France), and the surname Llorente derives from a patronymic form of Lorenzo. Can we source this to WP:RS? Andy Dingley (talk) 02:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: What's true, what's fiction

message: I just watched this film.  It was fun except for the fact to discover that pretty much all of it was not true.  As the Wikipedia page says, "Although the historical setting of the movie is authentic, the story itself is pure fiction.".  But actually that statement is still somewhat misleading: for instance the painter Goya existed.  However his apparent involvement in trying to save a daughter of a friend, and then her daughter, is, I guess, fictional.  The gist is, I like what is true & what is fiction to be clearer on the Wikipedia page, maybe especially because the film ISN'T clear on this.  And probably the easiest & quickest way would be to update the cast list to something as the following:
Actor            	Role
Natalie Portman  	Inés/Alicia (fictional)
Javier Bardem    	Lorenzo (fictional)
Stellan Skarsgård	Francisco Goya (existed)
Randy Quaid      	King Carlos IV (existed)
Michael Lonsdale 	Father Gregorio (fictional?)
Julian Wadham    	Joseph Bonaparte (existed?)
Thoughts?  Maybe some expert wiki editor on this page could go do this. :-) MBParker (talk) 05:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno, I came to this article wondering about the same things, and the present text was quite sufficient for me. For example, the wikilinked characters are real, and the others aren't. I don't think that sentence is misleading - you can have an entirely fictional story which features a real-life character.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 20:41, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Lorenzo is very obviously Juan Antonio Llorente: their careers are remarkably similar with even a Goya portrait (until 1814, when Llorente escaped to France), and the surname Llorente derives from a patronymic form of Lorenzo. Can we source this to WP:RS? Andy Dingley (talk) 02:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: make it clearer

message: Two themes pervade this film which are worth noting, perhaps in the main article.  Torture and  Goya's art. 
This film is set during the time of the Spanish Inquisition.  The question of whether torture can be condoned, and whether confessions obtained under torture are likely to contain factual truth is repeated raised in this film. The answer portrayed seems to fall heavily on the widely accepted but not universal opinion that torture seldom produces valuable results.  That Foreman made this a major theme of his film in 2005 cannot, in my mind, be separately from the current debate about water-boarding and other tortures used by the US government.   Further, the question of whether an invading army (Napoleon's in this case) that overthrows a repressive regime will long be tolerated, nor maintain its original objectives, is depicted clearly.  Anyone who does not see the US invading Iraq as a parallel is missing part of Foreman's message.
Second, the presentation on film of characters and situations from Goya's painting brought tears to my eyes.  Anyone who is not familiar with Goya's work will not see the homage which Foreman is paying to the great artist and chronicler of the beauty and horror of his time.  I cannot believe Foreman has not been credited or accused, depending on your politics, with making a cinematic statement that art is deeply involved in our real world.  This is not escape. This is not costumes and sets for the purpose of escape.  This is a portrait of our own times, disguised so that we may see it more clearly.  Aside from torture, and the devastations of warfare, Natlie Portman's depiction of mental illness from her prison experience is horrific, and the jaw-twisted face brings to life one of Goya's most striking and gruesome faces.  Bravi. Rayfieldvt (talk) 20:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Torture, War, Mental Illness, Goya's paintings on film 

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thread_title:  External links modified