Talk:Carleton College/Archive 1

message: The changes i reverted are two in number, both plausible.
The fall of GOP from leadership, if real, can certainly be described on this talk page, and its reign (especially if only recently ended) may still deserve mention as in "GOP long prominent but broke up" or "GOP at least temporarily eclipsed".
The Ambition mention has some history of being tuned into acceptability in this article, so unless we've been suckered completely, there's some consensus that it's sufficiently notable, and counter-arguments for its non-notability are in order.
--Jerzy(t) 16:52, 2004 Apr 15 (UTC)
:Since GOP has no national or regional prominence and has won no national awards, I would consider them irrelevant to a discussion of Carleton.  Even their own web page has not been updated since 1999.  Considering they were created in 1995 according to their website, they have little to do with the history or current status of Carleton College.
:Syzygy, with a history of national tournament competition going back to 1988, including winning the national championship 2000, is a much better example of the competitive varsity and club sports Carleton has to offer. 
:As for the Ambition thing, I just have to say, "hunh?"  If Mike Church wants to reference Carleton from his entry concerning his game, fine.  But I see no relevance to the definition of Carleton College.  For example, the basketball page notes its history as invented in Springfield, Massachusetts.  But the page doesn't need to list that it was the birthplace of basketball.
:--208.42.115.205 16:34, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Games & Sports 

message: By the way, didn't one of the guys associated with Lord of the Rings go to Carleton. Where is that? 68.117.68.223 03:50, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: (Jerzy(t) 05:37, 2004 Apr 22 (UTC) notes that Mike, in addition to moving some 'graphs, added Rotblatt, restored a version of Ambition, and added Hilleman, Osborne, and Veblen just before the time indicated.)
Garrick Utley and Peter Tork could be added to the list of noted Alumni.  On the sports side, the only NCAA sanctioned Metric football game occured between Carleton and St. Olaf at some point.  --209.98.116.228 03:36, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sports & Games mixed with Alums (etc.) 

message: In the text
:painted the night before his commencement speech, and repainted very early the following morning
the wording "and repainted" is confusing; it probably means someone returned it to plain vanilla very early, but as it stands what it says is that the portrait was painted twice in the same night.  Not hard to fix, if my surmise about the facts is correct.
(Speaking of clarity, is there "Freshman Rhetoric"?) --Jerzy(t) 05:37, 2004 Apr 22 (UTC)
----
=== Carleton's campus life shows no lack of traditions ===
In the traditions 
section, we had
: One of the unique features of Carleton's campus life is its focus on traditions.
It may be a distinguishing feature (tho i'm not suggesting a simple substitution), but "unique" means only one of the "universe" under discussion has it.  That claim could be verifiable (as WP expects) if said "focus", and the extent of the category of "traditions" being considered, and the universe (American 4-year higher education?) were clearly specified, but that seems far-fetched.
I've substituted a lame sentence, just to smooth the transition:
: Carleton's campus life shows no lack of traditions.
Consider that a straw man: knock it down.
--Jerzy(t) 06:58, 2004 Apr 22 (UTC)
=== The Original Comment by Fehler ===
I fail to see the relevance of the dvdfest.org paragraph.  The author needs to do a better job explaining why it uniquely defines Carleton College, or how Carleton's student film festival is deserving of special mention.  The scant description and links don't make it out to be much more important than any other small college film festival.  Otherwise, it looks like a personal plug.
I'd like to see some of Carleton's more unique traditions featured, such as Dacie Moses' House, or even the Pep Banned.  The Cave could be mentioned as a rare in-dorm nightclub (isn't Evans the only dorm with a liquor license?).  I also have yet to see anything on Carleton's new wind turbine.  That must be somewhat unique.
--Fehler 19:59, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pranks 

message: I fail to see the relevance of the dvdfest.org paragraph.  The author needs to do a better job explaining why it uniquely defines Carleton College, or how Carleton's student film festival is deserving of special mention.  The scant description and links don't make it out to be much more important than any other small college film festival.  Otherwise, it looks like a personal plug.
I'd like to see some of Carleton's more unique traditions featured, such as Dacie Moses' House, or even the Pep Banned.  The Cave could be mentioned as a rare in-dorm nightclub (isn't Evans the only dorm with a liquor license?).  I also have yet to see anything on Carleton's new wind turbine.  That must be somewhat unique.
--Fehler 19:59, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Original Comment by Fehler 

message: I removed the section:
(It should be noted that these rankings are considered suspect by many, but these rankings are still respected by many students and academics.)
Here's why: Every ranking system, unless it is based upon some objective fact (e.g. there's no debate as to what the tallest skyscraper is, or who is the heaviest man at any given time, because these are mathematical facts,) is doubted by many, and for good reasons. Collapsing something multi-dimensional like educational quality into a totally-ordered ranking system is going to mean overlooking enormous amounts of information. 
I totally agree that the U.S. News rankings are dubious, and I tend to think America's colleges would be a lot better off if those rankings (which can typecast a college's image as one of being "inferior" to "top schools" over minor differences) didn't exist. I guess that's the price we pay for free speech. (I just wish people would use their freedom to be a bit more skeptical about those rankings, that's all.)
To say, therefore, that this particular ranking system is considered supsect by some, but accepted by others, is then essentially a non-statement. It's like saying "some people liked the movie, and some people didn't". There's place for that debate on the college rankings page, but I'm not sure it's appropriate here. Mike Church 09:23, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: U.S. News

message: ----
I have removed the gaming material from the article.  The inclusion of references to the "Ambition" card game have been discussed at considerable length.  The consensus has been that the card game does not belong in the article.  Unless there is new evidence about Ambition's popularity, the reference to Ambition should not be re-added.
Overall, this article suffers from an excess of ephemeral student life material.  Such material is not particularly informative, since nearly all postsecondary schools exhibit similar traits.  Most suffer streakers to some degree, for example.  And such material dates quickly, since such traditions end up being changed around every 5-10 years as students graduate and are replaced by freshmen.  While we needn't create a stuffy college-administration-and-admissions-POV article, we could do with more facts, more history, and less ephemera.
UninvitedCompany 16:49, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  ambition and other ephemera 

message: There should be much more detail in the section about the Weitz Center for Creativity.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.22.11.221 (talk) 05:44, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Weitz Center ??

message: It would be worth talking about the Evans Hall renovation currently going on, ready for completion by jan 2013?  How about the Laird Stadium renovation; they are adding an entire fitness center in wake (no pun) of the flooding.
Distant Early Warning (talk) 20:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Upcoming Construction 

message: :Category:Wikipedians_by_alma_mater:_Carleton_College has been created.  Add to applicable user pages, and/or place on article page if appropriate (did not see similar categories listed other college and university pages, so leaving it here in talk for someone else to add ;) Here 20:20, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and , and would encourage faculty to use the existing category.  The current description is simply Folks who called Carleton College home for a time.  I've also mentioned changing the use of alma mater at Category talk:Wikipedians by alma mater. ∴ here…♠ 18:53, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Category:Wikipedians_by_alma_mater:_Carleton_College

message: I re-added the mention of the The_Mother_Grove_of_the_RDNA to trivia.  This is definitely worthy of inclusion.  It would be great if someone on campus could cite some information from the archived druid materials available in the library. ∴ here…♠ 03:07, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mention of Druids, RDNA mother grove 

message: I removed the external links to CUT and GOP websites as it seems unbalanced to link to only a few specific student organizations.  I added a link to Carleton's student organizations main page.  Malokata 08:37, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone from a Carleton IP just tried to add a GOP EL to Ultimate (sport), placing it along side links to national and international leagues. I guess they thought that GOP was more noteworthy than every other team in the world, since we specifically don't have team links in that article. I amazed, especially since CUT seems to take itself even more seriously. I guess Carleton Ultimate just goes to the extremes. All I can say is: Go OCD! (O.C. Dems) —WAvegetarianTALKCONTRIBSEMAIL 05:37, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GOP/CUT 

message: Where does the founding date of Nov. 14, 1866 come from?  I was a student during the 125th anniversary celebration and the materials said that Oct. 12, 1866 was the founding date of Northfield (later Carleton) College.  24.127.10.231 18:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Founding date 

message: What is the criteria for being a notable faculty member? I'm not familiar with the biology department, but what is the justification for listing Stephan Zweifel? Sarahjane10784 19:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable Faculty

message: In the Trivia section (for want of a better spot), I listed info about the Chicago Reader. The four founders were Robert Roth '69, Bob McCamant '71, Thomas J. Rehwaldt, and one other... --orlady 05:34, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Trivia" 

message: Hello there. I noticed that Athletics is very near the top of this entry. While athletics is no doubt a part of Carleton College, giving Athletics the first area to be written about seems a little too much.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.22.224.106 (talk) 06:13, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Athletics 

message: I'd like to suggest an overall revamp to the article: 
# add a history section, folding in bits from trivia an elsewhere to form a narrative of the college. A lot of stuff is missing there...[history added, trivia folded in. fleshing out still needed.]
# flesh out the campus section, in part in relation to the history section. We should have a mention (at least a name) of all major buildings, past and present. Many have changed use multiple times. I'd suggest merging the Carleton College Arboretum article in a some point, but I'll leave that 'til later.
# rename and rework "defining features" into "Academics" for the statistics, and "Student life and traditions" for non-academic features (integrating the Traditions article, with more traditions like Primal Scream and bubbles at opening convo).
# then athletics (include Rotblatt here)
# ditch the Alma Mater (not useful information; if you really want you can get it off the college web site) and the Point of Interest list (duplicate of the campus section)
# list of famous Carls (and yes please just make it anyone with a legitimate Wikipedia article: Wiki notability is Wiki notability)
# Carleton in fiction and film
I'm willing to take on a lot of this, but want to be sure I won't just be walloped back for doing it.--Natcase (talk) 05:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Big Picture restructure 

message: Hi. Your Carleton College alumni and faculty list has gotten to the point that you need to split it off into its own article. See the following colleges as examples. Corkythehornetfan (talk) 02:08, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable alumni and faculty 

message: Hi all. I believe the history section is rather underdeveloped, especially when it comes to more contemporary history besides the school's 19th century founding and the like. There has to be some news archives regarding the school, both from the school itself and from other sources (Northfield newspaper, Mimmesota newspaper, articles on high education and/or liberal arts colleges, etc.). Let's address this ASAP! Lacmaboingo (talk) 04:12, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: Let's face it: the article is in need of some help, hence it's B-class rating. NPOV seems to be fine, all rankings are sourced. The history section is in dire straits and the campus section can be restructured and reformatted to be easier to read. There are a few citation issues needed and I will add them as I find them. I think most liberal arts college articles are really lacking in content, and this one is no exception. We need to upload new, fair-use images as well as the article is very text heavy and could benefit from the former. When editors come to mind, I think Natcase and Contributor321 could help us out. Kind regards, Lacmaboingo (talk) 06:13, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Massive Overhaul of This Article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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