Talk:Himnusz

message: Quote: The tune of the Israeli national anthem (called Hatikvah) was significantly influenced by traditional Hungarian folk music.
:Possibly, but Hatikvah is generally believed to have been based upon Romanian folk tunes. -- Picapica 16:36, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you're in the right place! Yes, "nép" and "nemzet" are distinct words. However, in English, "this people" sounds... off. It would not be said by a native speaker. Since "nation" and "people" are largely synonymous, there should not be an issue... no? Korossyl (talk) 18:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hungarian -> Romanian 

message: Is there any reason why the title of this article is "Isten, áldd meg a magyart" instead of "Himnusz" (which currently redirects here)? — KovacsUr 21:50, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Title of this article

message: In the first line, "a magyart" cannot be translated to "the Hungarians;" it's a single noun. The most direct, literal translation would be "the Hungarian." "The Hungarian" is an abstract concept, closer to "the nation of Hungary" than it is to "the Hungarians."
In the third line, "feléje" indicates the direction; literally, "toward it;" "Extend your guarding arm" would have to come from "Nyújts védő kart."
The second line is a bit trickier; "Jó kedvvel, bőséggel" is grammatically ambiguous. It could indeed refer to God blessing the Hungarian nation by giving it the traits of "grace and bounty;" it could also refer to God, in His grace and bounty, giving Hungary unnamed blessings. Either interpretation seems to be valid; it's no grounds to insult the translator.<BR>
There's also this consideration: Though both translations here are free, they're both also sourced and attributed. I'm not absolutely sure that they can (or should) be changed. I may be wrong about this point, though.<BR>
Korossyl 19:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a characteristic of Finno-Ugric languages (such as Hungarian) to use the singular to refer to what Indo-European languages (such as English) put in the plural (e.g., 'Almát veszek' = 'I'm buying apples.'). It makes much more sense to translate "Isten áldd meg a magyart" as "God bless the Hungarians" than "the Hungarian," even if it's not a word-by-word gloss of the line. — Emiellaiendiay 09:42, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how you translate ked as grace. "Jó kedvvel, bőséggel" would mean something along the lines of "With good mood and richness" or "With good cheer and abundance". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.6.154 (talk) 16:28, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your translation of "Bal sors akit régen tép" is inaccurate. Word by word is translates as "Left fate whom long ago tear". Left in some languages is equivalent to Bad just as Right means good. Anyway a good translation of that line would be "Whom long ago was torn by bad fate". 65.102.202.63 17:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Verse, Literal Translation 

message: I think there are a few mistakes in the translation.
*"feléje" doesn't mean "toward", it means "over" ("föléje" in modern Hungarian)
*"szánd meg" doesn't mean "redeem", it means "pity" - the translator doesn't seem to understand the poem
: Actually, it means "award him with", here  Doc aberdeen  17:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hő means "mere"  Doc aberdeen  17:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Also Korossy1, I saw you translated kedd as "grace". I think you have it confused with kegy. Kegy is grace, while kedd means mood, temper, humor. 199.117.69.8 (talk) 21:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm... I don't think I was thinking "kegy." It took it to mean more along the lines of "humor", as in, "In your good humor and with bounty." That's awfully clunky, though. "Grace" I did not mean as "kegy", however, but as in "In his good graces." In this sense, "grace" approaches "humor" or "mood," and I thought it was a nearly poetic expression that didn't actually depart from the literal sense. No? Korossyl (talk) 03:22, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literal translation 

message: Here is a real translation of the first stanza. Itt van egy igaz forditásat az első strófaról. 
God, bless the Hungarian,
With good cheer and abundance,
Extend towards them a defensive arm,
If they struggle with the enemy;
Whom long ago was torn by bad fate,
Bring unto them a merry year,
Suffered already for their sins this people,
Of the past and future!
70.59.7.12 18:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems a little too literal like you read from a dictionary, are you a native speaker? 199.117.69.8 (talk) 21:25, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

text: The translation on the main page is trying to be 'middle English' not to say 'Shakespearean'. It's really bad, also changes the meaning: 1) very much 'God' focused whereas the original is not. Being a 'hymn' is just a vehicle, a framework to tell the 'story'. It's not a real prayer. 2) inserts words that are not in the original and can not be derived from the meaning. Example: "Heirs of Bendegúz, the knight" where 'knight' is totally wrong. It has a special meaning in English, does not apply to Bendegúz. Not at all. If anything at all he was a king. Not a knight. While 'heirs' is not particularly wrong it is used more as a legal term applying to aristocratic inheritance. Also, such expression as "Bendegúznak vére" does exist in English: 'Blood of Bendegúz' or 'Bendegúz's blood'. And so on the mistakes are plenty.IE: the translator doesn't seem to have basic understanding neither the English nor the Hungarian history/culture/language.Besides, not many speak, understand or appreciate Shakespeare or middle English any more. Above translation is not perfect but better than the one on the main page.Yes, I am a 'native' speaker. Both languages. Whatever that means when talking about English as a language.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.70.29.185 (talk) 04:33, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A real translation 

message: I say this as the writer of the "literal translations" that appear on Himnusz, Szózat, and Nemzeti dal: I personally like them, and believe that they are the most literal possible. I am, however, sometimes wrong. The translation of the Himnusz, for instance, had some problems which were pointed out to me. After some debate, I had to agree I was wrong.<BR>
That's not the reason I oppose changes to these translations. Those are sourced and cited to me, and they appear on my website (, , and ). These ought to be treated as lengthy quotes, not general Wikipedia content. That is, they ought not to be changed. I know it sounds like I'm being egocentric or vain, but if they are changed, they can't carry my name. I don't want my name removed, either; any visitor to my site will think I stole and bastardized a translation from Wikipedia.<BR>
Also: unsourced translations are original research and unsuitable for Wikipedia. If the translation is changed, my name has to be removed, and the translations become inadmissible.<BR>
In other words, I'm kinda tired of defending these translations. If they're terrible, then remove them and replace them with something else. If they're just mediocre, at least they're more literal than the ones that Wikipedia has right now (Nemzeti dal doesn't even have one). But please, no more changes just to fix a minor error here or there; due to the circumstances, it's not possible.<BR>
These are quotes. Even if they're wrong, they shouldn't be changed, unless you can replace them with something better.<BR>
Korossyl (talk) 14:17, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of the words you chose could've been better, you should look at your translations again and improve any faults you think you made. 199.117.69.8 (talk) 21:23, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If the translations are your own, even if they are on another website, they still constitute WP:OR.  The only exception to citing your own work is if it is peer-reviewed.  Translations are an iffy thing, however.  BUT, if your translation is wrong, it is wrong and should be corrected.  If a translation is corrected here, the change can have a footnote with your original indicated and it is still clear that it is not your translation, but is a correction.  This is extremely common in translated works and other works where a correction is required for some reason or another. (Taivo (talk) 03:53, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literal Translation 

message: No doubt the page was written by people with Hungarian connections, interests, etc.
Why can't it be called,"The Hungarian National Anthem"? In fact, that's what I searched for.  Francis Hannaway (talk) 17:29, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The title is still difficult