Talk:Miyamoto Musashi

message: I'm just curious, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to have Musashi's name as Musashi Miyamoto rather than Miyamoto Musashi? MastaFighta 17:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It wouldn't. Wikipedia has a "rule" that anyone 1868 on is "first name-last name," and anyone before that is "last name, first name" (traditional Japanese order). Besides, Musashi isn't his given name, it's a title-- the shortened form of Musashi no kami. If he were born after 1868, you'd have to give his name as "Genshin Shinmen," because "Genshin" was the closest thing he had to the Western concept of a "given name." -Tadakuni 17:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I know it's out there, sorry I can't recall the precise place to look for where it's written...should be somewhere on Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan. -Tadakuni 19:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can find it in the manual of style at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Names of historical figures. Fg2 22:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miyamoto Musashi = Musashi Miyamoto? 

message: In reply to the poster who posted "self taught," I think you're absolutely right. Musashi was an autodidact without a doubt, and those types of people reach heights that no education can provide. Obsession is incredibly powerful. 68.123.159.100 (talk) 05:30, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autodidact 

message: Admittedly I skimmed through the article but I cannot seem to find mention of the story where he defeated but spared a bo master who through the development of the jo (shorter bo) later defeated and spared Musashi.24.83.148.131 (talk) 09:57, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean Musō Gonnosuke? -Tadakuni (talk) 15:40, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thank you, that's him. I figure that if  Gonnosuke never defeated Musashi, then there'd be no Jodo24.83.148.131 (talk) 10:16, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Gonnosuke never defeated Musashi on their second duel, only fought him to a draw.  Still, to be able to fight the likes of Musashi to a draw, was considered an achievement in and of itself.  If you are looking for flashy stuff though you'll be dissapointed; Jodo is an extremely direct and pragmatic short staff art.  No fancy circles, no pretty twirls, just direct whacks to the forearms, temples, knees, or crotch.  It is a very "no nonsense" weapons form, and very simple.  67.148.120.90 (talk) 05:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musashi Defeated by Creator of Jodo? 

message: In the book of the Five Rings, he calls himself "Shinmen Musashi no Kami Fujiwara no Genshin", there is no "Takezo". Please could someone show me a historical prove for the name "Takezo". In almost all movies about him and his life, his birth name is Shinmen Takezo and the people call him "Takezo-san". His well known childhood name was Bennosuke. If his given name would be really Takezo, why he didn´t mention it in "The book of five rings"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.58.216.111 (talk) 00:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Shinmen was his father's name, and Takezo was his original name. He changed it to Miyamoto(where he was born) later in life.
Note: he is named :ja:Musashi Takezou on the Japanese wiki.
(goto page 98) Here is a link that basically outlines popular belief as to why he changed his name -AerobicFox (talk) 01:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't believe you're relying on a novel as a source for this. Yoshikawa made the name "Takezō" up. He has said so himself. He was never named Takezō. Read the Japanese language Wikipedia article. And if you can't read Japanese, maybe you shouldn't be insisting on this...?Matt Thorn (talk) 13:51, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name "Takezo"? 

message: :They faced off, and Musashi struck a single blow, per their agreement.
So, does this mean that they agreed to let Musashi take the first blow? Oddity- (talk) 05:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification (under Biography :: Travels and duels) 

message: Greetings! I thought I'd clarify I few things regarding Muso Gonnosuke, the creator of Shinto Muso Ryu Jodo, and Musashi. To make it short and sweet: there is no solid evidence that Gonnosuke defeated Musashi in the second duel outside of the Shinto Muso Ryu Jodo tradition itself. There is evidence, however, that Gonnosuke was defeated in the first duel as it is mentioned in both Musashi and Gonnosuke traditions.
The Shinto Muso ryu tradition was founded as a direct result of Muso Gonnosukes defeat, not the defeat of Musashi. The story about the rematch might have been constructed by a very pro-Gonnosuke clique to give that extra edge to the ryu. Or we could speculate that Musashi WAS defeated by Gonnosuke and that Pro-Musashi people have removed all mentioning of it. All of this is idle speculation. What is certain is that there is no sure way of proving that this rematch ever took place.
I've never heard of any "rivalry" between Shinto Muso Ryu and Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu higher-ups regarding this issue, and I've never heard anyone in stating that the "Musashi was defeated" scenario is required "doctrine" for a Shinto Muso Ryu pracitioner. Yes the tradition goes that the rematch happened...but the tradition also states that a Divine Being taught Muso Gonnosuke his jo-techniques. (The "divine aspect" is a very common feature in traditional Japanese warrior-schools by the way.)
Anyways, I hope that clears a few things out.
Fred26 (talk) 14:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding Muso Gonnosuke 

message: The article currently states that he stayed with the Hosokawa in 1633 and at this time they were sponsors of Sasaki Kojiro. However, Kojiro died in 1612, so it is difficult to see how this could have been the case. Clarification needed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.106.251.34 (talk) 08:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Later life and death 

message: Terao Kyumanosuke (Motomenosuke) had received the complete transmission of the School of Musashi, with certification and Musashi's two swords. He at first refused to teach and sent what he had received to Musashi's adopted son, Iori. Iori refused the succession, since the honor had not been bestowed upon him. With this, Kyumanosuke then agreed to take over as head—both his and Iori's actions were manifestations of their respect for Musashi.
Succession in the Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryū (the name given by Musashi towards the end of his life) does not follow a hereditary pattern. It is attested to by the bestowing of two artifacts: a scroll on which is written the name of the techniques and the approach to them that must be transmitted if the school is to be perpetuated truly,[3] and a wooden sword that Musashi made himself, with which he trained and used as a walking stick during the last years of his life[3], today in possession of the Usa city Shinto Shrine.
Ok so, with that being considered fact or general consesus, I really would love to know what exactly happened to Musashi's two swords. The pasted above states what happened to one of his wooden swords, but not the katanas. I read biography of Musashi written by Kenji (must read) and it really didn't state whether Musashi's swords even still exist today. Any ideas? Thanks  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.92.32.4 (talk) 22:25, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  What happened to Musashi's two swords? 

message: "... age of 15 (according to the Tosakushi, "The Registry of the Sakushu Region", although the Tanji Hokin Hikki says he was 16 years old in 1599, which agrees time-wise with the age reported in Musashi's first duel)."
I was just looking through this article, very interesting, and spotted this bit. Nothing really wrong with it, but I did observe the confusion on age, and figured I'd note that he could have been 15, if it was during the first half of 1599, right? Similar case for his first duel, as well- he could have had the duel sometime in the latter half of 1596 and thus been 13 as documented. If he really was born in June, like I was, then this is certainly a detail not to be ignored. Though, as well, the actual birth year seems to be in question by some historians, and these dates may be based on those. They certainly seem to match up with the 1584 birth year, though.
Though perhaps there's implied times of year for these registries and such from which these ages and years came from..? In any case, it is important to keep in mind that half of the year, he's a year 'younger' than one might think just calculating age vs theorized birth year. I do like how at least one of the later mentions of 'age' put the other possible age in parentheses, seemingly noting this possibility. --128.220.107.111 (talk) 18:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In traditional japanese way to calculate age of a person you are 1 year old just after your birth. And you will be 2 years old after the next lunar New Year, not after your actual birthday. In historical japanese sources you will find that way of calculating someone's age, while in Western sources there is a trend to calculate age as we Westerners do. That's the thing you should keep in mind reading this article. Vigilium (talk) 15:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Years and ages - an observation 

message: Is there anything to suggest in historical records that Musashi was a user of doctors when survivng the aftermath of a duel? European duels always had a medic/doctor at hand to stitch wounds and remove shot. Did this issue apply to Samurai duels? Did Musashi retain a doctor for his duels alone?--Ickesshadow (talk) 06:45, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Musashi was only ever injured twice in his career, so that is unlikely. Once with his fight with Kojiro where his leg got cut near the femoral artery, and another where he tied with Ganryu. He was also hit be a falling rock when storming a castle, and grazed by an arrow. Considering the lack of times he was injured, and the fact that duels were almost always to the death, and that he was a loner; there was probably not a doctor or anything. --AerobicFox (talk) 19:59, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The use of a doctor or medic in duels? 

message: Donn F. Draeger's view on Musashi conflicts with a lot of what I see in this wikipedia article's intro. See 
I'm somewhat inclined to believe his opinion more than what I see here. Comments from someone more knowledgeable? janto (talk) 18:31, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Donn F. Draeger letters 

message: In "The Book of Five Rings" in the "Water Book" is written:
"Grip the long sword with a rather floating feeling in your thumb and forefinger, with the middle finger neither tight nor slack, and with the last two fingers tight. It is bad to have play in your hands."
So Miyamoto don't teach two-finger grip, but a slack between two fingers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.50.139.226 (talk) 09:45, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You are exactly correct, and the article is definitely misleading on that point. It's probably worth noting that the grip described by Musashi is also the only effective way to wield a sword (whether with one hand or two), given the physiology of the human hand.  I've never heard of anyone ever teaching a different method - and how to grip a sword is pretty basic stuff. The commentary on this point in the article is probably misplaced, and definitely consists of original research.  Why don't you edit the article and add a citation to the specific passage in the Book of Five Rings two clarify the point about the grip. Bradford44 (talk) 15:16, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gripping the sword with two fingers? 

message: I know nothing about this other than what is in the article, so I am hesitant to make changes. However in
 Munisai and Musashi's birth date, it says
Mysteriously, Munisai's tomb says he was born in 1580, 
From surrounding text I'm pretty sure this should read died instead of born,  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.133.163.244 (talk) 13:07, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction Needed???? 

message: Should the information about Shirota be included in a timeline of Musashi's life?--Slowlikemolasses (talk) 19:29, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shirota 

message: It appears that some of the text was copied from here: http://likendo.com/miyamoto_musashi.htm without proper citation.
On a separate note, the claim that he died in 1580 is suspect. Perhaps that should have read "born in 1580"?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grauenwolf (talk • contribs) 21:25, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the text your referring to was probably copied from Wikipedia without proper citation. The "offending" text includes the sentence The details of Miyamoto Musashi's early life are difficult to verify. This sentence was formed on 25 August 2006 and was actually a modification of the phrase Much of Miyamoto Musashi's early life is shrouded in mystery. It's almost impossible that Wikipedia had an old version of a sentence, and then that sentence was later edited, and the edited version -- but not the original -- was a CO violation. In fact, we can clearly trace the date of that website's plagiarizing Wikipedia to some time between 25 September 2006, when a quotation was formatted to the way LiKendo cites it, and 13 October 2006, when a reference to GRnS that is not included in LiKendo was added. (Most of the intervening edits were either to parts of the article that LiKendo didn't copy, or vandalism that was reverted, or formatting changes -- Wikilinks, etc. -- that would not affect a copied version of the page.) Hitomaro742 (talk) 08:11, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright issue 

message: In the timeline the cause is given as thoracic cancer in the infobox as stomach cancer. --90.1.249.192 (talk) 20:52, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  In US English they call it a [soandsohanded] swoop  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.44.225.107 (talk) 06:52, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cause of Death? 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: It´s overall well done, but there are some little mistakes. I allow me to change it. Example: If there is only a year available and not an exacte date (day, or at least month), it can not be determine how old he was. Take the year 1600: From January 1st to his birthday on March 12, he was still 15 years old. From March 12 to December 31 he was 16 years old. --Niten Doraku (talk) 15:57, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The timeline 

message: I also want to mention something which i consider important because it can confuse people. As far as i know, the Japanese have an other method about how old someone is. Musashi wrote for example in 1599, when he defeated Akiyama, that he was 16 years old at that time. Same with Arima Kihei. Mr. Miymaoto wrote he was 13 when he killed his first man, Mr. Arima, and this was in 1596. Since Musashi was born in March 1584, it is obvious he was not 13 in ´96 and he was not 16 in ´99. And this is a confusion for some people with his timeline, since even the author William Scott Wilson made him 13 in 1596 and 16 in 1599, when he was actually 11-12 and 14-15 in those two years.
As far as i know, a 3 months old baby is in Japan already 1 year old. The baby is basically "in his first year", that´s why they say it is 1. And if a man or a woman is let´s say 20 years and 10 days old, for the Japanese he/she is already 21 ("in their 21th year).
Since Musashi was japanese, it is highly possible he ment by 16 (in his 16th year), which would made him 15 in the western method.
I am not an Expert in japanese manners, but i´ve heard it many years ago the Japanese handle it like this, at least they did it, i dont know if they still do it today. --Niten Doraku (talk) 20:09, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  His age (japanese way vs western way) 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Sig at han var god til kamp 2A02:AA7:4007:9D93:1:2:2670:A571 (talk) 13:03, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Y 

message: Japanese Knifemaker Seisakusho Miyamoto engraves the handles of his Higo-Knaifu, a "Higonokami" folding-knife not licensed by the Higonokami-Knife-Guild, hence the slightly different name, with a depiction of Miyamoto Musashi wielding his sword. 2003:CA:3F0A:20B0:3920:78EC:5827:2D84 (talk) 14:28, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture 

message: Reading this one wonders if the character had any other real thing about him outside the fact that he lived in the early 17th century. Similar to Benvenuto Cellini, Caliostro or Casanova, all we know about him is writen by himself. How reliable can this be?! 188.27.132.41 (talk) 06:55, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fictitious life 

message: 1626 sepuku. 1627 travels, was his sepoku ineffective a d forgiven. Or the data inaccurate? 2409:4081:1D83:FDD4:0:0:B089:815 (talk) 11:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commits sepuku, then travels?