Talk:Mass (Stravinsky)

message: First version of the page is up. Let me know if anyone has any comments or disputes. Best wishes. --MarkBuckles 09:07, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: First draft

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I have just been listening to a recording of the Mass by New York choristers of the Church of the Blessed Sacrament and instrumentalists from the NYPSO, conducted by Stravinsky himself and apparently issued in 1947. Since there is some doubt about the exact extent of Stravinsky's own conducting on the later recording, in which it seems Robert Craft was likely to have taken a share of the conducting and all the editing, I think it ufortunate that the 1947 one, which exists in more than one CD transfer, seems to have escaped your list.Delahays (talk) 17:59, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Stravinsky Mass.jpg

message: Credo (Stravinsky) redirects here, which is a conflict because Stravinsky also wrote a piece entitled "Credo". What can be done to solve this? Ron Oliver (talk) 00:31, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The best solution is an article - however short - on that Credo. I'm on vacation ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:27, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There are complications, however. One is that the "other Credo" is a revised version of a 1926 work originally set to the Slavonic text "Simvol verï". Another is that, together with two other Latinised versions of originally Slavonic sacred choral pieces ("Otche Nash'" = "Pater Noster" and "Bogoroditse devo" = "Ave Maria"), this has become part of a group titled Three Sacred Choruses. This needs to be taken into account when deciding exactly what article should be created.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 16:55, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:   I hear "Three Sacred Choruses" is the title used in recordings, but I've been unable to find any reference to "Three Sacred Choruses" in proper scores. There are, however, other problems. I've seen places where "Credo" is referenced to as "Veruju" (in Russian, too lazy to change from a latin keyboard layout to a cyrillic one). Probably these titles come from the incipit. That being said, I would definitely choose the Latinized version of each title. as they seem to be far more commonly used in the West. Ron Oliver (talk) 19:14, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

text: Yes, perhaps that is ultimately the best solution, but I thought these factors ought to be taken into consideration before proceeding. I don't believe the three works in question were ever published together, but they are referred to (informally) as "Three Sacred Choruses" not only in recordings, but also in the literature (see, for example, Robert M. Copeland, "The Christian Message of Igor Stravinsky", The Musical Quarterly 68, no. 4 (October 1982): 563–79, citations on 571 and 572; Marianne Gillion, "Eastern Orthodox Spirituality in the Choral Music of Igor Stravinsky", The Choral Journal 49, no. 2 (August 2008): 8–25, citation on 11). Certainly using the Latin version of the text makes things easier on English Wikipedia, not to mention aiding comprehensibility to English-speaking readers. I doubt whether Stravinsky himself would have cared one way or the other, but it is interesting that Eric Walter White notes (in Stravinsky: The Composer and His Works, second edition, p. 167) that, after making a "new version" with Latin text in 1949, he then made another "new version" in 1964, reverting to the original old Slavonic text. For what it's worth, "Veruju" (Верую) is simply the Russian for "I believe", in Latin, "credo", so it would be silly to use this instead of Stravinsky's Old Slavonic Символ вҍрьї (literally "Symbol of Faith", Russian Символ веры, another name for the Latin "Symbolum Nicaenum").—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:07, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Credo (Stravinsky)