Talk:Lancelot

message: This article needs to be updated. It is now know that Sir Walter Map likely had nothing to do with the Prose Lancelot's creation.
Yes and maybe make a story for it Lawrence addog (talk) 05:20, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok thx for letting me know 80.193.16.217 (talk) 16:58, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: old comments

message: I fail to see why the inclusion of a pseudonym here is not needed. Isopropyl 13:58, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It just doesn't need to go in the first sentence. If you want to add it to the appropriate part of the article, please do.--Cúchullain t/c 17:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added it to T. H. White's section, as it is the title of his book on Lancelot. Cariel 05:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chevalier Mal Fet 

message: I editted the titels of Chrétien de Troyes's works.  They are Cligès not Cligés and Le Chevalier à la Charette NOT de la charette.—Preceding unsigned comment added by DanMaroun (talk • contribs) 
:You're quite correct about Cliges, but "de la charette" is much more common than "à la Charette". --Cúchullain t/c 21:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chretien

message: I know it is not locked for me but since it is I am less inclined to alter it. It is basically sound but needs clean-up. One thing I noticed up front is that the very long sections look as though they could use some subsections. By the way here is a nice painting if anyone is inclined to put it in appropriately.Dave 15:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestions

message: I've never seen Lancelot in any early or native British literature. Is he just a fiction made up by later continental authors? ---G.T.N. (talk) 23:56, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: is he not lluch. llauynnauc  who appears in the early Arthurian poem "Pa wr yw y porthor?" and who is also listed with a slightly different spelling in Culhwch and Olwen. Loomis thought so. Llwch could be translated as "lake" (cf Gaelic cognate loch) and someone who didn't know Welsh might think he was "Llauynnauc of the Lake"  The first "u" could easily be mistaken for an "n".  In Culhwch and Olwen there are in fact many Irish names imported into Welsh and so "Lluch Llauynnauc" might be a a Welshification (Cymricization if you prefer) of an Irish "Lúgh Lamh--" a version of the name "Lúgh Lamhfhada" - Lugh of the Long Hand. Who is identified with the Celtic solar god Lugos. Lúgh Lamhfhada appears in a proper Welsh cognate (not just a Welsh spelling of the Irish) as Lleu Llaw Gyffes - Lleu of the Swift Hand.
So  Du Lac is a mistranslation of Llwch which in turn does not mean "lake" but is a Welsh spelling of the Gaelic Lúgh Lamhfhada which in turn represents the God Lugos. Maybe. Barcud Coch (talk) 05:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what Loomis suggested, but as far as I know that theory does not have a wide acceptance, being based almost entirely upon speculative linguistics.--Cúchullain t/c 12:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early or Welsh references? 

message: This article is hardly the proper tone for wikipedia.  Fine for a private book or treatise, but not a public encyclopedia. 68.101.130.214 (talk) 09:59, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I'm going to try to work on this in my spare time. Portia1780 (talk) 21:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awful book dump 

message: OK, after much work, I've reworked this article completely.  I tried to get rid of a lot of the weasel words and opinion all over the article, especially when talking about the quality of Medieval romances on Lancelot.  That info is probably best moved over into the articles for the Prose Lancelot, Le Chevalier de la charrette, etc.
I also tried to put in a little more information on Lancelot's adventures.  I am currently reading the Prose Lancelot (ick), so I will continue to develop this section.
Hopefully, no one will feel the need to completely revert this article.  If you feel like I've been delete-happy, please add stuff back in where appropriate (and please don't flame!).  Thanks! Portia1780 (talk) 20:21, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good start. There needs to be something about Lanzelet and how it relates to Chretien and the greater development of the legend. I also think the "adventures" really needs to refer directly to the sources used it's almost entirely from the Prose Lancelot but that's not made clear, and there is no accounting for different versions- for instance Meleagant doesn't show up until near the end in Malory. That's one thing the Britannica version did well. But good work with the rehaul, I know it's a daunting task.--Cúchullain t/c 20:27, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Complete revamp 

message: I did some searching and found a web page mentioning several alternate names for the sword (Aroundight, Aroundyȝt, Raudoudeyn, Randondeyn, Rauduney and Radondyght), citing and quoting George Ellis's Specimens of early English metrical romances, volume 2 (1805, archive.org link) and Eugen Kölbing's The romance of Sir Beues of Hamtoun (1885, archive.org link), both books are available online. There's also an additional sources page which succumbed to linkrot, but I found an archived version. It appears that the name originated in the Romance of Bevis of Hampton, mentioned in some versions of the poem, but not others. IMO we should point the redirect to Beves of Hamtoun (poem) or Guy of Warwick and focusing on covering the sword (and its pop culture legacy) over there. -- Gordon Ecker, WikiSloth (talk) 03:07, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources for Arondight

message: The article does not make it clear if Lancelot was a real or fictional character. Considering the legend, this should be made clear. Dotancohen (talk) 12:18, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Do not, by their very nature & definition, "legendary" characters imply an "unknown condition" as their status considering whether they were literal historical personas or mythic creations of folklore? 4.242.174.226 (talk) 11:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The King Arthur article has half a dozen paragraphs covering the major theories about the historical basis for the legends of King Arthur. It would probably be appropriate to include something similar here if it can be adequately sourced. -- Gordon Ecker, WikiSloth (talk) 03:21, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite real.  The Prince planned that to squelch the abundant warrings of Nations, he would propose that the Royals should attempt to end their squabbles with lancing duels; there came to be many lancings; thus Lance-a-lot.  Quite simple.Gnostics (talk) 15:59, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, no, Gnostics is just having a chuckle here. See the Origins section in the article. Note that lance comes to us from French, and that -ot is sometimes used in French as a diminutive suffix. The name might come from that, but I think you'll find there has been a lot of study on the name's origins, none of which points to -elot coming from a lot. Eric talk 17:12, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  A double diminutive might work; Lance + -el + -ot. Note that gauntlet comes from gantelet; gant (glove) exists, but the intermediate term gantel does not, it went straight from gant to gantelet. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:34, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fictional character or real? 

message: , what are you referring to with "the manuscript evidence of L'Ancelot" here? That sentence reads like it is recalling something already mentioned or commonly known, but I don't see any occurrence of the term or mention of a manuscript elsewhere in the article. Eric talk 14:39, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I came here to comment on this. I don't see what evidence could possibly exist. Apostrophes just weren't used yet in French, you get them in early printed edition from about 1535 (when the acute accent appears) but that's about 350 years after the death of Chrétien de Troyes. I'd have no objection to removing this, given it's uncited, and, unless I'm missing something, no evidence of this could actually exist. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:32, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ancelot is in the Dictionnaire de l'ancienne langue (generally considered the best Old French dictionary of all), though it appears to be unattested, Godefroy included it based on the proper noun Lancelot, it seems that ancelot isn't actually used, anywhere. Renard Migrant (talk) 18:43, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  In fact, he seems to have included it based purely on attestations of the proper noun Lancelot, which would make this reference circular. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:52, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  L'Ancelot 

message: Has any historian considered the possibility that one of the inspirations for the Lancelot and Guinevere story may have been the famous case of Count Alan Rufus (the Breton who was commander of William the Conqueror's household knights) and Princess Gunhild, daughter of King Harold?  Archbishop Anselm of Canterbury corresponded with Gunhild, urging her to return to Wilton Abbey and berating her for loving Alan Rufus and, after his death (4 August 1093), taking up with his brother Alan Niger.  Geoffrey of Monmouth (c. 1133) doesn't use the affair in his stories, but perhaps that's because Alan's brother Count Stephen of Tregor (c. 1060 - 1136) was the political leader of a large Breton military contingent widely distributed across Britain at the time.
Chretien de Troyes was under no such constraint, though the marriage of Henry II's and Eleanor of Aquitaine's son Geoffrey to Duchess Constance of Brittany, a descendant of Stephen's and heiress to his extensive estates (and more), in 1181, might have made literary diplomacy more complicated.  That the Angevins were as interested in Arthurian Romance as the poets and writers they sponsored is evident in the name of Geoffrey's and Constance's son, Arthur.
The real-life Percival family were Breton and connected with Alan Rufus's family, so placing a Perceval among the "attainers" of the Grail is interesting. Zoetropo (talk) 04:24, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alan Rufus and Gunhild? 

message: Substituted at 21:37, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is some real trash in the FTaOM section, including several instances where Lancelot shows up on screen for five minutes during a TV show and disappears.  IMO it really needs to be modified to only include stuff here where Lancelot is the main character, or the Knights of the Round are the primary subject of the series, and the "this section is incomplete" should be taken away - it just encourages people to add junk.  One episode of Twilight Zone, or some random Transformers gag, does not belong here.
Also, it's entirely TV- and movie-centric.  Where is "The Once and Future King", or "Mists of Avalon" (the book), etc?
Hornpipe2 (talk) 14:41, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree whoreheartedly. IMHO, the section in question should be vaporised. It is unworthy of an encyclopedia.  Spem Reduxit (talk)
It should be retained, but written as a prose based on referenced scholarly works (there are many written about modern Arthuriana). --94.246.150.68 (talk) 16:08, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film, Television, and Other Media... 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article is extensive, but large sections of it have little to no references for their assertions. Any suggestions for available sources? Dimadick (talk) 09:59, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poorly sourced 

message: The Lady of the Lake is mentioned under family but his own biological son Galahad is missing. 103.210.40.230 (talk) 21:09, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is Family'? 

message: The redirect Alondite has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Utopes (talk / cont) 08:55, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Alondite]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]