Talk:Alternative medicine/Archive 14

message: The second paragraph in the Efficacy section states: "Advocates of alternative medicine hold that alternative medicine may provide health benefits through patient empowerment, by offering more choices to the public, including treatments that are simply not available in conventional medicine. However, a choice by the patient about which treatment to use can only be made if the patient is properly informed about the pros and cons. The field of medicine is complicated and not even medical doctors are knowledgeable in every topic and need to rely on specialists for many things. A patient does not have the time to study everything before making a decision. Patients need to be able to trust their doctor's advice and should be told if a treatment has no scientific basis." In these five sentence, only the first applies specifically to alternative medicine; the other four are about patient empowerment which applies to any field of health care. Although I am going to remove the last four, I'm preserving them here in the event someone can make that information specifically applicable to this article. Edwardian 04:09, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Patient empowerment

message: 15/10/2005, Based on the writings of Nutritional Psychiatrist Dr C.M. Reading http://www.gutandmind.cjb.net/
(This article is not intended as replacement for medical treatment.)
Often overlooked in the development of many illnesses, especially mental illness and neurological disorders is the role of the gastrointestinal system. It is known that both our gut and brain originate early in embryogenesis from a clump of tissue called the neurcast, which appears and divides during foetal development. While one section turns into the central nervous system another piece migrates to become the enteric nervous system and thus form both thinking machines. Later the two nervous systems are connected via a cable called the vagus nerve. This nerve meanders from the brain stem through the organs in the neck and thoric and finally ends up in the abdomen. This establishes the brain gut connection. So it is from a correctly functioning gut that we enjoy neurological, psychological and immunological health.
It is currently known among gastroenterologists that children with neurological problems often exhibit gastrointestinal upset. Most medical practitioners associate that the function of the gut is reactive to the mind and not vice versa. This understanding is based of current neuro-gastroeneterology. The guts brain, the enteric nervous system (located in sheaths of tissue lining the esophageus, stomach and colon) is packed with nerves with neurotransmitters, neurons and proteins and support cells like those found in the brain. So when we feel emotional, the enteric nervous system in the gut likely responds to the mind in a certain manner. For example vomiting before an interview.
But contrary to what most people think, latest research indicates that the gut itself may affect the mind and hence how we feel. It is possible that problems with the guts brain - the 'enteric nervous system' and its immunological interactions may indirectly effect the human brain and central nervous system. In this way the gut may be in fact more responsible than we have imagined for our mental well-being...
Gastrointestinal causes of mental illness:
The human body, is an organism of 100 trillion (1014) cells and of this 90 trillion are prokaryotic (bacterial) and 10 trillion are eukaryotic ('human'). Each human cell supports 50-100 bacteria or bacterial descendants. The human gastrointestinal tract is the focal point for this maintaining this balance of bacteria in the body. An advanced array of immunological interactions and defenses constantly interplay between the body and gut to maintain the health of the individual. Infact, the human intestine is the largest organ of the immune system and comprises of millions of bacteria in symbiotic balance with the host. Specialised defences, not fully understood, are in place for the protection of the gut from infectious pathogens and therefore maintain the integrity of the gut mucosa.
Overuse of antibiotics, poor diet, stress, infection and inherited gut disorders such as celiac disease are known to contribute to weakened gastrointestinal health. When the balance of the gut is compromised there is increased risk of gut infection and possible breakdown of the immunological health of the body. So important is this balance, it is noted that 'The brain and body state' is achieved as a reward for looking after our micro flora - according to Evgeny Rothschild, (Science Spectra 6, 1996).
Recurrent gastrointestinal infection, gastritis, post antibiotic infection (colonization of bad bacteria), tropical sprue and inherited gastro-immunological disorders such as celiac sprue, non-celiac sprue and food intolerances may lead to the development of mental illness and disease. For example, current research into autism has postulated that a certain subset of children who had MMR vaccine may have developed a persistent gastrointestinal infection with the measles virus. This has been confirmed through colonoscopies of these children who exhibit inflammation in the small bowel. As a consequence, the poor health of their small bowel has caused these children to deteriorate neurologically.
When the gut can not eradicate a pathogen or suspected antigen correctly a cycle of deterioration occurs in the gut. Normally when a pathogen is acquired by the gastrointestinal tract an auto-immune response is triggered to eliminate this infection. Often diarrhoea, fever and vomiting occur and usually the infection is self limiting and the individual recovers. However, in a subset of people with weakened gastrointestinal systems either inherited or due to environmental factors, the immune response may be inadequate. This leads to persistent gastrointestinal illness. Often a long term immune response to a pathogen not eliminated correctly will trigger persistent inflammation. For example, often seen in cases of inflammatory bowel disease such as Ulcerative colitis, the immune system over-responds and the colon become chronically inflamed due to infection. Repeated inflammation sets in a cycle of deterioration of gut mucosa.
In the case of mental illness it is mostly likely that an insufficient gastro-immunological response occurs in the small bowel. No symptoms of gastrointestinal upset may occur except for mental illness. Repeated immune response due to infection or allergy may result in inflammation, particularly in the area of the small bowel and over time this may lead to damage of the mucosal villi and in turn increase mucosal permeability. With partial-atrophy (flattening) of the villi there is less absorption of food and less immune secretory factors from the villi (IgA, IgM, IgG) cells to prevent further infection. These villi are also responsible in secreting of digestive enzymes, but with greater pathogenic load and poor motility due to infection there is less enzyme release and hence digestion of ingested substances deteriorates. Due to this a cycle of malabsorption can set in, and with malabsorption there is less chance of epithelial repair. This is because epithelial cells are constantly replacing themselves and to do so require a constant nutrient supply. Without adequate and dense nutrition they can not replicate and this worseness mucosal integrity.
In this way, a vicious circle of inflammation, infection, allergy, permeability and malabsorption continues. Overtime, the immunological response of the small bowel may deteriorate, possibly due to autoimmune tendency to the bowel from the body. This may lead to small bowel bacterial overgrowth or candidiasis which in turn increase the leaky ness of the gut.
Once depleted and inflamed, the villi fail to protect the mucosal integrity and allow the intestine to become permeable to more substances. In this way, the small bowel may allow the undigested contents to 'leak' into the blood stream. As enzyme secretion diminishes, due to pathogenic and pancreatic overload there is an accumulation of absorbed undigested materials in the body. These easily cross through a more permeable gut and overload the liver and kidneys with greater than normal toxin levels. In particular, the phase one to phase two detoxification pathways of toxins in the liver can become insufficient for this load and chemical sensitivities may then develop. Without adequate detoxification the poorly digested toxins accumulate in the body.
Allergies to certain foods are often acquired from incomplete digestion and elimination. Allergies in turn also create nutrient deficiencies. In many gut related mental illnesses malabsorption develops both from allergies and poor enzyme release possibly due to pathogenic overload. Malabsorption creates severe disturbances in the body. Many mental patients are known to often exhibit low serum levels of B vitamins and minerals, especially vitamin B12 and B6 and zinc which are vital for normal the function of the brain and stability of mood. Recent studies have shown the many schizophrenics have poor taste and sense of smell - indicative of zinc deficiency.
In addition, the correct break down and digestion foods are required to produce the vitamins needed to create the hormone cortisol. Cortisol and related steroids can only be manufactured with adequate B vitamins, esp. B5, B1, B2, B3, Mg, ZN, and vitamin C.Hence, malabsoption prevents cortisol production in the body. Cortisol is an anti-inflammatory compound and is very important for the homeostasis of the body. With low cortisol the body can not fight allergies, infection or inflammation as well. Cortisol is also is important in mood regulation, stamina levels and blood sugar regulation. Low cortisol can result in mood swings, depression, paranoid and psychotic behaviour. Hypoglycemia results from food allergies, malabsorbtion, low cortisol, Candida, pancreatic overload - all which derive from digestive problems. Hypoglycemia can cause many mental problems such as anxiety, shaking, crying, panic and mood changes.
Insufficient break-down of the hardest to digest (and most commonly consumed) foods leads to incompletely digested fractions or peptides. With stressed detoxification systems these peptides can accumulate in the body. Certain peptides readily cross the blood brain barrier and interfere with brain functioning. Milk and bread exhibit peptides called exorphins from gluten and casein which act as opoids in the human brain and have psychoactive effects. Many psychotic patients have specific IgA antibodies to such peptides indicating that these fractions have accumulated in their brains. It is also possible that poorly digested food fractions may trigger an autoimmune response in the brain due to repeated cerebral allergy. It is postulated that the constant accumulation of such toxins as well as bacterial endotoxins overtime may deteriorate the blood brain barrier itself allowing for greater permeability of the brain to further toxins.
In children and young adults, opoids inhibit the normal maturation of the central nervous system. As the human brain, especially the frontal lobe, does not complete development until the age of 25, permanent damage to the brain often results from these opoids. This explains the rapid onset of autism in healthy children who suddenly deteriorate with severe developmental and learning disorders. Whilst with schizophrenia, this correlates with onset and worsening of symptoms seen in the late teens and early twenties of growing adults. It is likely that the developing brain is damaged from the build up of poorly digested food fractions. These once healthy individuals may have in fact acquired their mental illness through a poorly functioning gastrointestinal-immune system rather than inheriting mental illness. Further examples are of this are seen in Western Ireland which has a high incidence of both celiac sprue and schizophrenia. This also indirectly highlights the mechanism for the inheritance of schizophrenia, whereby inheritance of poor gut function is passed on (not necessarily the gene for dopamine excess) which slowly erodes the developing brain eventually causing mental symptoms.
The combination of the malabsorption of essential nutrients, allergies, low cortisol and accumulation brain opoids and insufficient detoxication to eliminate these toxins may overwhelm the ability of any individual to function normally. By initiating a chain of 'health breakdowns'(See the Gut and Mental illness flow chart diagram), a poorly functioning gastro-immunological system and its cumulative effects, ultimately result in mental illness. The path to recovery or prevention of such illness therefore lies in restoring the immunological balance of the gut. Below are treatment strategies that have helped others recover:
The below treatment strategies are effective for any form of gastro-immune induced illness. Good gut management and gut repair can modify and manage many immune disorders outside the gut. Without gut repair and good gut ecology return of health is unlikely. The Below complementary treatments have assisted people with mental illness, learning disorders, hypoglycemia, autism, memory problems, chronic fatigue, bowel disease, auto-immune disease, arthritis and coeliac and latent cealiac disease. For treatment strategies see http://www.gutandmind.cjb.net/
Based on the writings of Psychiatrist Dr C.M. Reading (This article is not intended as replacement for medical treatment.)
:: Total pseudoscientific BS. Tokakeke 19:30, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gastrointestinal Origin of Mental Illness? 

message: Critics contend that this entire article is written in weasel words.Loodog 01:45, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  weasel words 

message: One poster above says: "It is one thing to say: "I believe it's effective, but have no proof as yet." It's quite another to say: "I believe it's effective, and my experience with it is enough proof for me and my customers."
To which my answer is indeed so, but the same can be said just as fairly of my stock-picking method. And while the wrong stock-picking method won't kill you, at the same it's also pretty fair to say that most of the alternative medical strategies out there won't either. And a bad investment strategy can certainly screw up your life more terribly than the wrong herb. Spare me the stories of people dying after spinal manipulation. You're probably in bigger danger staying in a hospital; the bugs there are nastier. And the medication errors, when they occur, are more likely to be serious. 
Besides, this whole argument needlessly conflates a scientific problem with a legal problem. Are we not really to be allowed to pick our own cosmetics, our own religions, our own investment advisors and guidance councilors and chefs and diving and skiing and rock-climbing instructors, without having to consult with some government agency about whether or not their methods and advice have been scientifically scrutinized to the government's satisfaction?  Come, now. We are adults. The “nanny-fication” of medical law has more to do with really irrational fears of poisoning than it does good sense. If you ever tried to eat a food again which you had thrown up after a bout of gastroenteritis, you will recognize that we're all wired with some pretty unscientific prejudices when it comes to our foods and medicines. And if you know anything about how the FDA historically came about, and how it gained in power, you'll understand that these prejudices operated at every step.
Recommended is the following article: Is Complementary & Alternative Medicine a UFO?
This is not a bad article, and I don't want to leave the impression that I disagree with most of it. However, it does contain a few howlers that need attention: Speaking of the idea that pharm companies run conspiracies against natural remedies:
"These claims lack credibility for several reasons. While pharmaceutical companies do have commercial motives, which have often led to unethical and illegal practices, they are still interested in finding and marketing new, effective products. They continually research CAM methods. When they find an herb or medicament that can be used, they develop it and market it. They care not where the method comes from. If it can be proven to be effective and relatively safe, they'll find a way to make money off of it, and it will be used. They have a direct interest in marketing effective methods, not in burying them."
To which my answer is "poppycock"!  May I have some evidence, please?  The only drug I know of which came from a completely natural source, but which a drug company actually made much profit from, is lovastatin--- and that only happened BECAUSE the way the company found to make money "off of it," was to hide its origin, and pretend you couldn't get the same stuff from red rice yeast. Following which they sued the red rice yeast sellers for being "unscientific" until the patent ran out. Although in theory "use patents" are possible, in PRACTICE I've never seen one used to make a drug company much money on any molecule. In theory they could find tomorrow that melatonin is a wonderful adjunct for breast cancer and that curumin from turmeric prevents Alzheimer's disease. But no drug company would fund that research.
I certainly agree with Dawkins that one scientific standard needs to apply to all. My problem with Dawkins is that he seems to have forgotten that science costs money, and we live in a capitalistic society where research follows profit motive. Without good IP protection, we have information-socialism. And information-socialism causes bare shelves at the "good idea store," in the same way that agricultural-socialism caused bare shelves in the grocery stores of the old USSR. Except in our case, the bare "good idea" shelves relate to how to use old drugs and unpatentable molecules.
Case in point: there's some pretty good evidence that fish eating lowers total mortality and extends life, and even a good randomized placebo controlled study in heart patients which found the same. But you won't see fish oil advertised on TV. You'll see Crestor. Crestor endlessly. Is Crestor the "best" statin?  Or the best researched one?  Not by a long shot. The best data for mortality reduction by a statin comes from gigantic trials like 4S and HPS, which used simvastatin (Zocor). But you won't see Zocor commercials on TV because the Zocor patent has ended. Science and evidence-based medicine is NOT driving this system, folks. The alternative folks are not all just doctor-hating nuts. They do actually have a point about the bias here. In articles like the one quoted above, this needs to be acknowledged. Steve 19:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yes, evidence-based medicine! Alas, the problem that "evidence" costs money 

message: For all of these related articles, the Complementary and alternative medicine article needs to be the highest level, with a link to Alternative Medicine and a redirect from Alternative Medicine to Complementary and alternative medicine. - a medical journal editor  Healtheditor 16:48, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The information structure is important 

message: I bit the bullet, as the CAM article entirely overlaps with this article. Here's the remaining material from the CAM article still to merge:
===Contemporary use of alternative medicine===
The popularity of CAM therapies is great. A survey released in May 2004 by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine focused on who used complementary and alternative medicine, what was used, and why it was used  in the United States during 2002.
According to this new survey, 36 percent of U.S. adults age 18 years and over use some form of complementary and alternative medicine (CAM). When prayer specifically for health reasons is included in the definition of CAM, the number of adults using some form of CAM in 2002 rose to 62 percent  (See CDC Advance Data Report #343 below, abstract on page 1).
Consistent with previous studies the present study found that the majority of individuals (i.e., 54.9%) used CAM in conjunction with conventional medicine ( page 6). "The data confirm most earlier observations that most people use CAM to treat and/or prevent musculoskeletal conditions or other conditions associated with chronic or recurring pain" (page 5). "The fact that only 14.8% of adults sought care from a licensed or certified CAM practitioner suggests that most individuals who use CAM" prefer to treat themselves (page 6). "Women were more likely than men to use CAM.  The largest sex differential is seen in the use of mind-body therapies including prayer specifically for health reasons" (page 4). "Except for the groups of therapies that included prayer specifically for health reasons, use of CAM increased as education levels increased" (page 4).
Osteopathy, a medical system developed in the United States that employes the use of manipulative techniques in their treatment programmes, is considered by some to be a mix of conventional and alternative medicine. Doctors of Osteopathy (DO) in the USA are trained as medical doctors and surgeons with some different philosophical underpinings.
Alternative therapies are frequently used in veterinary medicine.
===The top ten CAM therapies===
The 10 most commonly used CAM therapies in the United States during 2002  (See CDC Advance Data Report #343 below, table 1 on page 8) when use of prayer is excluded:
#Herbalism (18.9%)
#Breathing Meditation (11.6%)
#Meditation (7.6%)
#Chiropractic medicine (7.5%)
#Yoga (5.1%)
#Body work  (5.0%)
#Diet-based therapy (3.5%)
#Progressive relaxation (3.0%)
#Mega-vitamin therapy (2.8%)
#Visualization (2.1%)
Of these 10 most commonly used CAM therapies, 6 are relaxation techniques.
NCCAM classification of CAM categories, grouped by popularity  (See CDC Advance Data Report #343 below, table 4 on page 9 and table 1 on page 8) when the use of prayer is excluded:
#Biologically Based Therapy (20.6%)
#Mind-Body Interventions (16.9%)
##Herbal therapy (18.9%)
##Diet-based therapy (3.5%)
##Exercise-based therapy (not rated)
#Manipulative therapy (10.9%)
#Alternative Medical Systems (2.7%)
#Energy Therapy (0.5%)
In the United Kingdom, the biggest complementary / alternative healthcare professions are:
# Herbalism
# Osteopathy
# Homeopathy
# Aromatherapy
# Acupuncture
# Chiropractic
In the UK, there is an organisation that monitors CAM practitioners known as British Register Of Complementary Practitioners. On their site,, they say "The British Register of Complementary Practitioners (BRCP) is a professional register of practitioners who have proved their competence to practise by either completing an approved course or through an assessment made by the Registration Panel. They also agree to abide by a Code of Ethics and Practice and have full practitioner insurance." This helps monitor the quality of CAM in the UK and reduces the risk of quackery.
195.173.23.111 10:07, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged CAM to this article 

message: The 10 most commonly used CAM therapies in the United States during 2002  (See CDC Advance Data Report #343 below, table 1 on page 8) when use of prayer is excluded:
#Herbalism (18.9%)
#Breathing Meditation (11.6%)
#Meditation (7.6%)
#Chiropractic medicine (7.5%)
#Yoga (5.1%)
#Body work  (5.0%)
#Diet-based therapy (3.5%)
#Progressive relaxation (3.0%)
#Mega-vitamin therapy (2.8%)
#Visualization (2.1%)
Of these 10 most commonly used CAM therapies, 6 are relaxation techniques.
NCCAM classification of CAM categories, grouped by popularity  (See CDC Advance Data Report #343 below, table 4 on page 9 and table 1 on page 8) when the use of prayer is excluded:
#Biologically Based Therapy (20.6%)
#Mind-Body Interventions (16.9%)
##Herbal therapy (18.9%)
##Diet-based therapy (3.5%)
##Exercise-based therapy (not rated)
#Manipulative therapy (10.9%)
#Alternative Medical Systems (2.7%)
#Energy Therapy (0.5%)
In the United Kingdom, the biggest complementary / alternative healthcare professions are:
# Herbalism
# Osteopathy
# Homeopathy
# Aromatherapy
# Acupuncture
# Chiropractic
In the UK, there is an organisation that monitors CAM practitioners known as British Register Of Complementary Practitioners. On their site,, they say "The British Register of Complementary Practitioners (BRCP) is a professional register of practitioners who have proved their competence to practise by either completing an approved course or through an assessment made by the Registration Panel. They also agree to abide by a Code of Ethics and Practice and have full practitioner insurance." This helps monitor the quality of CAM in the UK and reduces the risk of quackery.
195.173.23.111 10:07, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The top ten CAM therapies

message: I merged integrative medicine to this article, as the integrative medicine article was little more than a stub, padded out with information about alternative medicine in general. 195.173.23.111 10:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged Integrative Medicine into this article 

message: I don't know what you all think but there seem to me to be a disproportionate number of mentions of Andrew Weil and Integrative Medicine.
Incidentally the subject is far too big, diverse and fragmented to be squeezed into one article and this article should be a very short umbrella.   I don't go along with the placing of generalised often hotly argued comments about efficacy in anything other than a therapy specific context.  And even then it should be therapy/condition related.  However.....
*You're probably right regarding Andrew Weil, but then again it's almost always his hairy face I see whenever the MSM cover alternative health topics.--Herbjunkie 15:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spamming for integrative medicine? 

message: Hi Fyslee -- I changed "modern" to "mainstream" in the section mentioning Dawkins (diff), hoping for a less POVish term (compare the subtle connotations of "not modern medicine" with "not mainstream medicine").  It is somewhat challenging coming up with an appropriate term to contrast the body of knowledge and practice commonly known simply as "medicine" with that which is called "alternative medicine".  The lead section does use "conventional" and Ernst and others use "mainstream", so perhaps that it suitable.  That seems a minor nitpick next to your recent set of edits, which otherwise I thought quite improved the article.  It's especially good to start an EBM section; well-done!  All CAM articles should have this, IMO.  regards, Jim Butler(talk) 01:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think your choice - mainstream - is a good one. The EBM section wasn't my addition. In fact it and the one following it should simply be in a "See also" section, like in other articles, unless you want to discuss the relationship of AM to EBM, which will probably start edit wars. The relationship is already touched on several times in the article, and I doubt that advocates of AM would want to have those controversies emphasized too much by giving them their own section......;-) Actually those controversies could be the subject of their own article - Controversies between Alternative and Mainstream medicine. Such an article could present both sides of the controversies. -- Fyslee 09:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I bet the editing would get pretty rowdy on that one, but yes, it would be good!  cheers, Jim Butler(talk) 05:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Modern, mainstream, conventional