Talk:Final Fantasy X-2/Archive 1

message: Not even the IMDB lists the entire voice cast in the game's front page. I feel it only clutters the page and is of little interest. Better add more trivia and trim down here Renmiri 17:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Voice Cast

message: I'm embarrased to ask this, but how do you active the special dressspheres? I own the game myself, and I can't find it anywhere. Please help. --Soetermans 17:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have a girl change into all dressspheres on her garment grid in a single combat. If you acces the grid now, a new shoulder button option becomes available, which will allow the special dresssphere. G'luck. -- Bakabaka 13:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Special dressspheres

message: "amazing amount of side-quests"
"There are many spectacular pieces in the game, and quite a few spectacularly tacky pieces."
Not exactly NPOV, but I'm not familiar enough with this to competantly fix them. Anyone want to give this a shot? Yelyos 09:10, Mar 21, 2004 (UTC)
I changed "amazing amount" to "a number".
I also corrected a mistake -- this is not the first game since FF1 to feature a constant party.  Final Fantasy III (the Japanese one, not 6) also featured a constant party.
I think it would be worth adding a section to this article about the fan reactions to this one, as it's easily the most controversial title in the series.  FFVIII's article includes a NPOV section detailing this, and I think it would be worth going over that for this article as well.Rebochan 04:23, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I finally did it myself because there was a "Critic" section with some poorly worded, non-NPOV statement.  I myself enjoyed the game, but there's no point in writing an encyclopedia article on it without including the more controversial aspects.Rebochan 23:13, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Side quests

message: I'm considering changing some of them (after my most recent edit), but the problem is I could be giving too much spoilers. Does anyone have a good suggestion with what I should do? --Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 16:16, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I know Wikipedia has a template for spoilers, but we shouldn't be exclusionists because of spoilers. I hate the fact information is left out of articles because it'll spoil it for people. Sometimes people (myself included) come here to find out about a character. Especially FF7 - they don't get the whole Cloud/clone issue ;) — CuaHL 17:40, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

text: We're talking about this article, right? I think the NPC bios are a bit of a problem, in general (not just here, but throughout Final Fantasy-related articles). It was one of the things the Final Fantasy VI FAC got trounced on for, and I think there was a reasonable point behind it, and have argued so in the past. We do not need, nor should we, waste time listing every single character with a name who appears in the game. Nor should we create massive lists of them. My suggestion would be to pick out the characters who play a legitimately important role in the game (folks like Nooj, Shuyin, Lenne, etc.), and expand those entries slightly (I wouldn't go overboard, but a few sentences each should suffice). Then I'd eliminate the cruft (characters like Barkeep and Benzo). Ideally, we might even consider converting the article to prose: although that's likely to be a longer and more involved process, it would make it easier to handle relationships between characters, and to bring up fairly minor characters without dwelling too much on them (Ormi and Logos could be talked about in the overall context of the Leblanc Syndicate, for instance). Spoilers are not really a major concern, IMO, but fancruft is. – Seancdaug 11:06, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: List of Final Fantasy IV characters and List of Final Fantasy VII characters also give some information on nearly every named character in the games. ~ Hibana 16:42, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: True. This is also a problem that should be addressed, but in the appropriate location. – Seancdaug 18:24, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPC Bios 

message: "They also point to the fact that Square Enix had already announced sequels to the title after release, which they believe lends credibility to the theory that the plot point was intended to be resolved later."  ?? This doesn't make sense, and if the writer meant "...before release" it's certainly false.  Square didn't make any reference to plans for a sequel until 2002, and it wasn't officially announced until late that year.  
In fact, even then, according to an interview in one of the Ultimania books there was a lot of disagreement within the development team over Tidus' role in the sequel --- early plans had him not appearing at all.  This wasn't resolved until well into development.  Nojima also mentions in the same interview that he doesn't consider any one of the endings to be the only "true" ending.
--Tennin 18:49, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "good ending" 

message: This is definitely a POV and not one very often heard. I have been to several forums for a long time and never heard this one, not for the game. Skimpy clothes, yes I heard about it. Lesbianism ? Nope. Are you sure you didn't buy the hentai version ?
That entire sentence should be taken out.
Renmiri 20:29, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm inclined to agree. In future, though, you may want to cite (or, ideally, provide a diff, though sometimes that's not always practical) the passage you mean, so we all know what you're talking about immediately, and don't need to go searching through the article. :-) – Seancdaug 20:31, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Will do! Removing a repetitive paragraph in the same section, one that talks yet again about the skimpy clothes... Adding som "pros" to the criticism to make it more balanced. Renmiri 20:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hrm... The major problem with "criticism" sections is that they tend to be a magnet for bias, both positive and negative. At this point, I'm leaning towards scrapping the whole section and starting from the ground up. As a rule, we should only be reporting reasonably common, or at least notable, criticisms, and we should be able to provide a valid citation for each and every critique we mention. "Balance" is all well and good, but if we're talking about critical reaction, we should be careful to reflect that general reaction: if it was overwhelmingly positive, we shouldn't dwell on the negative, and vice versa. – Seancdaug 00:04, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly.  I think that three positive and three negative points, all CITED by creditable sources, is fairly balanced. We may even want to make a little review chart. Deckiller 00:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lesbianism ?!?! 

message: I feel like there are too many images in the article now. Some of them are too small to increase in size without any pixelation. ~ Hibana 22:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Which ones ? You can pick others from the Final Fantasy media gallery  or from the high definition images I have just loaded (list on my user page) Renmiri 22:16, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

text: That's why I'm discussing it. I thought maybe someone would explain why they should be kept. ~ Hibana 22:30, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I think all the new images are pretty unnecessary. -- Psi edit 22:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I added the pictures at the request of the recommendation at the FFX Project page Renmiri 22:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  PS: I don't disagree that removing some pictures would make it less cluttered but no one has taken it off the list of "Articles that could be improved with images" yet so I'm leaving it as is Renmiri 22:12, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh we don't mind spoilers here. It's an encyclopedia not a game site. But fine, I'll change the picture. Renmiri 18:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many images 

message: I'd like to put in a formal request that Final Fantasy X-2 books be merged into this article. As it is, there is maybe one sentence of non-duplicated information in the article, since the Shinra/Shin-Ra connection is already noted here. There doesn't seem to be any reason why we can't include the relevant information either here in the trivia section, or in a new section dedicated to either related books, or (probably better) tie-in merchandise in general. – Seancdaug 20:04, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. It's all about notability, in my opinion.  Albums can have detailed track and recording information, but minor books on a minor fictional item can easily be put into the game article. Xenosaga did it. Deckiller 20:07, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree. I'm not sure why someone would enter Final Fantasy X-2 books into a search on Wikipedia instead of on Google. >Gamemaker 02:36, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree. A new section dedicated to tie in merchandise is a good idea. Renmiri 17:09, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Yeah its a stub should be merged. -- Psi edit 20:25, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Disagree In terms of notability, the Prologue / Ethernal Calm clip is particularly important for game fans as it ties both FFX games and reveals the background for FFX-2. It is definitely much more notable than the name of the guy who made Lian Ronso's voice (See Voice Cast above). It is also one of the top searches for FF X at google, boasting almost 1 million hits for "another story" (Results 1 - 10 of about 9,770,000 for final fantasy another story) and 1 million for "Eternal Calm". Perhaps a subtitle just for it is all it needs but it is definitely more than "trivia" Renmiri 17:16, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really a fair use violation either, as the pages 4 images were well below the "de facto" standard of 15 images maximum. As a matter of fact, there are plenty of other Final Fantasy pages that violate the 15 images rule. Renmiri 21:16, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, that's not what I meant, and I'm sorry that I wasn't clear. It's not the number of images that's the problem, it's the way they're being utilized on the page. We can only use fair use images for illustrative purposes (see criteria #8), and there is a fairly common school of thought that argues that since image galleries do not generally provide any accompanying descriptive text, they're a violation of that requirement. In other words, that it's valid to show a picture of, for example, Shuyin next to a paragraph describing the character. It is not valid, on the other hand, to create a seperate section called "Characters of Final Fantasy X-2" where we simply provide an image gallery of every character of the game. See this AfD vote for some of the rationale behind this. And note that I chose my phrasing ("might be") carefully: there are people who find this interpretation of copyright policy a little reactionary, and it is most certainly not a cut-and-dried case.  But it's something that we need to be aware of, especially since it makes it more likely that such an article is going to get slapped with a copyvio notice. – Seancdaug 21:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for the clarification. I understand your point now Renmiri 16:46, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

text:  Oh, certainly (though, at the moment, I believe it's integrated with the story section, not the trivia section, where I agree it doesn't really belong). I don't see any problem with setting the information aside in its own section within this article, and doing so makes a certain degree of sense. I'm just not sure there's enough to say about it to populate an entire article. Having given it some thought, my suggestion is to create a section in this article, and to add a shorter note at Final Fantasy X with a direct anchor link to that section. I suggest something like this: "In 2003, a twelve minute video clip bridging the gap between Final Fantasy X and its sequel, Final Fantasy X-2, was released as part of Final Fantasy X: International + Last Mission. For more information on this sequence, please see Final Fantasy X-2#Final Fantasy X-2 Prologue." Or whatever (the exact wording doesn't really matter, per se). The various redirect links (Final Fantasy X-2 Prologue, Final Fantasy X: Another Story, etc.) should point the Final Fantasy X-2 article, and the expanded information therein. – Seancdaug 18:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe a section titled Final Fantasy X-2 Prologue on the FFX2 page, which incidentaly is the title of the video link would be the best place to put a small pargraph about it. It would make it easier to point the redirects to the proper section Renmiri 18:24, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: They're all pretty recent creations. I tried to be bold and merge them before starting this discussion, but the creator of the pages objected and reverted them, so I opened things up here to gauge consensus. – Seancdaug 20:41, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

text: The links were there, they and the pages were removed by Sean Renmiri 18:24, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't object to the pages removal, I objected to the way it was done, which was not bold, it was just rude. Renmiri 17:16, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree --- there's really not that much there, it would probably serve more people overall to have it here. Agent0042 22:24, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final Fantasy X-2 books merger 

message: I must be blind, but could somebody point me to the IPA symbols in this article that warrant the little note at the beginning of the article?
I only see Japanese characters and those are hardly IPA symbols. --84.184.114.159 10:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That thing clutters the page IMHO. We could just take it out Renmiri 16:11, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: IPA symbols?

message: Shoudln't there be a section describing the story and all the different endings? 84.13.46.92 17:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps... We need to keep the page short though Renmiri 23:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Endings 

message: Why isn't this article tagged with that little star in the upper right-hand corner? κаллэмакс 13:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's tagged now :) — Deckiller 04:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See, patience pays off, doesn't it κаллэмакс? LOL ~ Hibana 04:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks a lot! Ryu Kaze 13:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article tag 

message: Someone needs to clarify this.  2/19 for the international version?  Wouldn't the US/Canada be international as well, as, well, it was released in Japan first, and was translated from Japanese to English?  But what does 2/19 refer to?  On 2/20 it was released for Europe/Australia/New Zeland.  Is there a reason why there is a one-day gap? Hbdragon88 09:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That refers to the international version, which was only released in Japan. The "INT" link explains it. Ryu Kaze 11:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Release dates