Talk:Reform Judaism

message: I have noticed that in the History section and subsection Beginnings that there seems to be some editorializing and polarizing language. I propose changing language that presents bias, as has been proposed by previous editors for different sections of the article, and refocus the rambling tendency of this subsection. I will also provide more citations throughout the section to back up what the article is saying. I'd also like to alert other editors that there are some terms and names that are undefined and make comprehension of the article more difficult. If someone opposes to the proposed changes, please comment here or on my talk page. Rebekah3152 (talk) 17:50, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Rebekah3152, I wrote everything here. Could you be more specific? AddMore-III (talk) 19:31, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: AddMore-III, I noticed that after I had made a few edits that you deleted the edits I had made. I hope to understand why you decided to remove my edits. I am a college student who decided to improve this article for a class assignment, but the source I used was a reliable one, not a "general introduction". Dan Cohn-Sherbok is a Rabbi of Reform Judaism and has written several books about Jewish life. The information I drew from came from Chapter 44 - The Origins of Reform of his 2003 book Judaism: History, Beliefs, and Practice. You indicated having issue with the edit that Jews were "no longer separated from the mainstream life of non-Jews", but directly from Cohn-Sherbok's source it said "No longer were Jews insulated from from non-Jewish currents of culture and thought".  As for the "Orthodox Jews who believed" section, Cohn-Sherbok states that "a number of Orthodox Jews asserted that any alteration to the tradition was a violation of Jewish heritage". I understand that some of the Hamburg information would be better served elsewhere in the section. I understand you have invested time into this article and the Wikipedia community thanks you, but I am hoping to contribute positively to the Reform Judaism article and I feel I had done that with my edits. I assure you that the source I used is far from a general introduction and that the information I added would be of value to the article as a whole. Rebekah3152 (talk) 03:21, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

text: KyleCee17, as mentioned in your source, that sentence concerns the Haskalah. This article is about Reform Judaism. By the time Reform (and again, not reform in the generic sense, but a specific denomination) consolidated in the 1840's, even the Orthodox in Germany moved waaay beyond the maskilic program, communicating almost exclusively in German etc. I bulked this article with some irrelevant info just so people could differentiate between - as Michael A. Meyer wrote - "reformers (in the generic sense)... a broad stream that embraced all opponents of the premodern status quo"  to the "more clearly marked current which rejected not only the religious mentality of the ghetto, but also the modernist Orthodoxy which altered form but not substance." I've seen several Wikipedia users making that mistake. One must mention the former, and I've done so quite thoroughly, but they're totally different concepts. If you really want to understand the historical background, read Meyer's Response to Modernity. AddMore-III (talk) 05:13, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

text: I get that you two are some sort of college freshmen who draw your info from general introductions. I use specified sources, check the bibliography of this article. "Breakdown of traditional patterns" is far more accurate than "no longer separated from the mainstream life of Non-Jews" (what does that even mean? And they were still separated to a great degree). The process here is little related to France, mainly in Germany. You also put the Hamburg Temple right in the beginning, though it's mentioned below. There is nothing non-traditional about vernacular in prayer and the Orthodox turned this issue into a red line only after Hamburg. So is the organ. The "Orthodox Jews who believed..." section is faulty at best. The Orthodox wanted civil rights as much as the proto-Reformers, Reform rabbis appeared only decades later, and it's not "believed deviation from tradition was a violation of Jewish heritage", but something like "omission of prayer for restoration of the sacrificial cult in Jerusalem by the Messiah was contrary to Jewish dogma, and severe heresy." AddMore-III (talk) 05:30, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Rebekah3152, I'm less than thrilled by your and your fellow classmates' edits. As I've already wrote, ideally you should have relied on specialist literature. However, as I'm both loathe to argue and aware you need those grades, I will not interfere here until you've passed your course. AddMore-III (talk) 06:23, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  History - Beginnings Section 

message: Hi! I am a college student and am assigned this article in my writing and composition class. I am working on expanding and adding some sections on the article on Reform Judaism. So far, I have added a subsection on Reform Judaism post World War II and how the war has affected Reform Judaism. I also added a subsection on feminism, and talk about how Reform Judaism and feminism go hand in hand. I also added a subsection on "Tikkun Olam", or social justice, because it is important in Judaism, but especially in Reform Judaism. Lastly, I added a section on Reform Judaism in Israel, and how it has both started and evolved there.  There is nothing that I would delete. However, I would place the "History" section in the beginning of the article rather than the end. I believe the structure would be more comprehensive that way. Please let me know if you have any questions or advice! Thank you.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aasherian (talk • contribs) 22:34, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Changes! 

message: Hi, I am a college student, and I feel this article encapsulates very well what Reform Judaism is and the history of it. I would love to add a section expanding different movements within Reform Judaism. I feel adding a section to this article explaining Women of the Wall While this movement isn't strictly a Reform Jewish movement, the primal leaders, especially Anat Hoffman, as well as several other women, are central to the movement and are also Reform Jews. I feel this would be a nice generalized addition to this article. The values of Women of the Wall are unmistakably parallel to the values of Reform Judaism. Providing this information within this article will also give a real-world situation that shows controversy in light of Reform Judaism within all of Judaism as a whole. I would explain what the movement is when it was established but specifically provide information on how this movement for a lot of Orthodox Jews, interferes with the importance of tradition but for Reform Jews, forwards an agenda of equality and prosperity. My main reference will be a Journal Article entitled, "Feminists in the Temple Orthodoxy. The Struggle of the Women of the Wall to Change the Status Quo". It was written by Shofar which is an Interdisciplinary Journal of Jewish Studies. If anyone would like to provide feedback or constructive criticism, I would love to hear anything. Gisellen (talk) 16:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, Gisellen, and welcome to Wikipedia. I recommend that you read WP:Verifiability and WP:No original research before you make the changes you propose. Unless reliable sources describe Anat Hoffman and Women of the Wall as part of Reform Judaism, they don't belong in this article (except possible in the "See also" section). The fact that you or I may see parallels in their philosophies is interesting, but Wikipedia is supposed to be based on what reliable sources say about a subject, not on its editors' theories and analysis. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:09, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really, this is a marginal issue. This article is good precisely because it sticks to the big issues and avoids the "live-feed on news events" attitude which bedevils Wikipedia. A section on the relationship between RJ and a small movement is irrelevant and superfluous. AddMore-III (talk) 19:47, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your input AddMore-III. Actually, WOW is hardly  marginal movement; it is in the Jewish news (e.g. The Forward & Haaretz) almost weekly, and is integrally tied to Reform Judaism. There should at least be a short mention of WOW.Chapmansh (talk) 21:51, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

text: A good compromise here may be to work on a section that goes over organizations similar to WOW (ie, nonprofits and the like) that either identify solely as part of Reform Judaism or have a large consistency that identify as such. I would not put a huge emphasis on WOW in this section and instead only give them about 1-2 sentences about this. Now where you could put a huge emphasis on Reform Judaism and WOW is in the article for WOW, as a section that covers their impact on Reform Judaism and vice-versa would definitely be justified there and you could go into the details that wouldn't really fit here. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:14, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I see your point. Hoping Gisellen sees this before she makes her contribution. Putting this relationship into the WOW article would make sense. Thanks to everyone for your input. Chapmansh (talk) 20:20, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Vital Addition 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: My edit was taken out; among other things reviewer claimed that what was written was not substantiated by the reference; but I quote reference here directly: "Reform Jews accept the Torah as the foundation of Jewish life containing God’s ongoing revelation.."  Ongoing-continuous have same meaning in this discussion. I believe reference is necessary as continuing revelation is a major difference from other branches of Judaism/Mwinog2777 (talk) 19:48, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Far superior references are already cited in the appropriate section. As I wrote, there is no need for citations in the opening paragraph, which is supposed to summarize the rest. Your claim is wrong, btw, most Conservative thinkers espouse a very similar position. AddMore-III (talk) 20:08, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Ongoing revelation

message: Regarding spontaneous minhag, the article continues "The advocates of this approach also stress that their responsa are of non-binding nature."  What are "responsa"?--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 03:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: "Responsa" is the article about the general idea, with a specific section regarding the Judaic context. I added a link. DMacks (talk) 03:31, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "responsa" 

message: Why have you tagged this article as ?  The toolforge links in the template do not work ("source(s)" is not a valid URL) and the link to Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2022 May 31 lacks an entry for this article (which also means that it is somewhat unlikely that anyone is going to address the violation, seeing as June 7 has come and gone). Where specifically was text copied from? Should we re-list the article? --NYKevin  06:35, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's the copyvio? 

message: Add a picture of a black female rabbi leading, to quickly illustrate what's it all about for those who don't bother reading. 24.225.138.50 (talk) 14:40, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see anything in the article about race. How is this idea "what it's all about"? DMacks (talk) 15:53, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Female leaders and rabbis 

message: @חסיד צום רבי'ן made an edit on 21:29, 4 August 2023, adding statements calling Reform Judaism "not real Judaism" and "was created when people became too lazy to keep real Judaism but still wanted the benefit of being called 'Jewish'." Their edit was reverted, and on 18:00, 6 August 2023 they reverted the reversion. This has now been reverted, making this post in case they continue. Sufferingbanana (talk) 18:45, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  User making multiple attempts to insert partisan statements 

message: — Assignment last updated by Ashleeyy (talk) 10:50, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Honors World Religions