Talk:La donna è mobile

message: Tito Gobbi was removed as a tenor that has recorded this song as he is not a tenor (he is a baritone), and there is no reference found stating that he has ever recorded this song.  If anyone finds such a reference, feel free to link it here, and restore his name. JeffyP 19:01, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tito Gobbi

message: It isn't an aria! See :it:La donna è mobile (canzone)
* Done and done.  And next time, remember to sign your comments with 4 ~ JeffyP 00:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I forgot to sign. Now, there is another problem: these are not the lines! Once again, see :it:La donna è mobile (canzone). Many thanks --Al Pereira(talk) 00:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: *I see what you mean.  The italian version of this article includes (what seems to be) the original lyrics, whereas this article has a more popularized version.  Is it possible that the other lyrics are his original, and these were altered when sung in Rigoletto? JeffyP 19:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *After looking at the italian version of the article, it's apparent that's there's much more useful information there than there is here.  I'm going to try and brush up on my italian and translate some of that information into here.  As for the differing lyrics, I still need clarification on that, because I don't think I came across an explanation. JeffyP 19:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *The lyrics on the it.wiki article are from the original libretto. Usually, the lyrics in an opera libretto have no repetitions (with some exceptions). Obviously, the composer may repeat "e di pensier e di pensier e di pensier" or even a whole strofa but these are just "words", not "lyrics". One can also copy all the words, exactly as they appear in the music score, but in this case without separating them in lines. I prefer to copy the text from the origianal libretto and add a note if the composer changes some words, which is not the case of "La donna è mobile". Thanks --Al Pereira(talk) 19:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I'll do some editing later on tonight to fix things up properly.  Do you know the proper translation for La donna è mobile though.  "Woman is unpredictable" sounds sort of like what the meaning is, but "Woman is fickle" sounds really off.  Can you think of a better alternative to those two (if not, I'll stick with unpredictable)? JeffyP 01:17, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Actually, the meaning of the single line "La donna è mobile" isn't that much clear in Italian neither! In order to understand it, one must add the second line "qual piuma al vento". The expression "La donna è mobile qual piuma al vento" in good Italian should be written as "La donna si muove come una piuma al vento", literally in English: "Woman moves herself like a feather in the wind" i.e. "woman is fickle". --Al Pereira(talk) 10:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canzone not Aria! 

message: The Canzone was described as "casually misogynistic", this judgment requires a reference. I am removing it untill refernce is found--Hq3473 01:42, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not misogynistic, just libertine. You did well. Actually, it isn't a matter of reference. --Al Pereira(talk) 06:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Misogyny

message: Unless this is one of those super-popular memes, I don't think this bit is notable and should be deleted:
 The phrase 'e di pensier' can be misheard as the English phrase 'elephants, yeah!'. Joel Veitch used this fact and   
 a recording of Luciano Pavarotti singing La donna è mobile to produce an Adobe Flash movie of Pavarotti showing his 
 love for elephants.
Deepak 04:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  elephants 

message: Yes. Please delete it. 
How do the author of this major piece of flash explain the r-sound at the end of "yeah"r...?
And where would Wikipedia end if this was allowed into articles, with even lesser similarity between the words and the song, e.g. Beatles "ticket" being transformed to "chicken" here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.157.228.236 (talk) 20:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Try as I might, I can't seem to shape "e di pensier" into "elephants, yeah". Furthermore, it's just plain ridiculous and whoever added it has had ample time to explain its addition on this page. Thus, I've removed the reference. --Todeswalzer|Talk 01:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elephants 

message: I've put the sample of Enrico Caruso singing the song back on the page - I'm not sure if there was a reason for removing it, but it seemed odd to have it on Enrico Caruso and not here as well! --- Richard CHSTalk 14:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Media 

message: As someone who is bilingual in River Plate Spanish (that is spoken in an Italian Accent)(Buenos Aires slang, 'lunfardo', being little more than Italian)(Most of the lyrics of the Tangos are written in Lunfardo, ie, Italian) I am somewhat, if not entirely, qualified to get gyst of the lyrics.
The question is not so much to translate the words or their meaning, but their bite: 
A woman will shift and flutter, 
Like a feather on the wind 
Changing her quiet tones, 
As soon as her mind. 
Always a sweet, 
Pretty little face, 
That in tears or in laughter, 
Tells nothing but lies.
He will always be miserable 
Whosoever relies on her, 
He who entrusts her 
His ill cautioned heart. 
And yet he will never feel 
The plenty of real happiness 
If from her bosom 
He does not drink Love to his fill 
In other words, love her to your fill, just don't be such an idiot as to believe her.Sound advice.
Awrigley 16:38, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translate the bite of this canzone, not the words! 

message: I agree, especially about translating the meaning - rather than the words literally - but a balance is required to convey the way those words are used in Italian, without necessarily changing the words too much.
Having an Italian background, with reasonable fluency in the language, the following is my translation of the meaning while trying to keep the words the same:
Woman is flighty, (or fickle or erratic)
That feather in the wind,
Silent in her manner of speaking - and her thought.
Always a loveable,
Graceful visage, (or beautiful face)
That in tears or in laughter - is lying.
Is always miserable, (or wretched)
He who trusts her,
He who confides in her - incautious is his heart!
Though not ever feeling,
Fully happy,
Who on that bosom, - does not taste love?
Now a brief explanation of what I think the meaning of this song is:
Verdi was intending to celebrate woman, in a playful, funny way. 
Not to criticise, but to playfully highlight a woman's imperfections, and show how we love her all the same.
This is not misogynistic, as some people like to think.
Gaetano.mancuso 06:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could be translated “woman is furniture” 2601:646:4300:CBC0:9C04:E882:83A8:5938 (talk) 23:05, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation and meaning 

message: While the "In popular culture" section is hardly relevant anyway, it says that in Aristocats, the elederly Georges sings and dances to La donna, when its clear in the film that the song he dances to is Habanera from Bizet's Carmen.
Darth Faber 1 April 2009  —Preceding undated comment added 09:12, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I take your first clause above to mean you agree with me that the entire section should not be here. I'm going to delete it, and if anyone wants to preserve anything in it, he can find a place for it in the article proper. TheScotch (talk) 06:13, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:   See my comment in § #Popularity in football (soccer). --Thnidu (talk) 21:58, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yet another operatic mix-up 

message: Just to let you know, Jon Pertwee sings la donna e mobile in the start of "Inferno" whilst driving Bessie. He recites jabberwocky whilst repairing Bessie in "Doctor Who and the Silurians". 220.244.162.100 (talk) 01:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor mistake 

message: Since 24 January 2014, Alexrybak has spent six edits in an attempt to restore a section that was removed on 18 February 2012 by TheScotch (see also above #Yet another operatic mix-up); these edits have been reverted by User:BilCat and me, while Anthony Appleyard's attempt to add a reduced version was also reverted by Alexrybak. In one of my edits, I rewrote the section on the aria's music and made some other improvements, all of which I mentioned in the edit summary, and they were reverted, too.
The section that Alexrybak proposes for inclusion suffers from several deficiencies: 1) it is wholly unsourced; 2) every item on the list, except the footbal chants, fail all three tests at WP:IPCEXAMPLES (and the football chants are unsourced and poorly written; there was a much better version present until it was removed on 4 January 2014 by 94.189.146.138); 3) the list is poorly written: there are several links to disambiguation pages in it while other link-worthy items remain unlinked.
I suggest that this list be removed again as it was in February 2012 and that  be reinstated. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:49, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: In popular culture

message: In this article, the full vocal range of the piece claims to be from F#3 to A#4, ignoring the famous high B (B4) at the ending, is this intentional? Is the ending B a later adaption of the piece? Seems like a very odd mistake to ignore the highest note in the canzone. I think this should be edited. CatTiger123 (talk) 07:10, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: As written, it ends on a B; see the piano-vocal score at IMSLP mentioned in the article's external links. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:33, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vocal range