Talk:Fred W. Green

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BetacommandBot (talk) 09:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Seal-of-Michigan.png

message: I pulled together the following from Time Magazine, which I have not tried to digest.  Some of it belongs in the article.  The brouhaha with the FCC is interesting, to say the least.  He appointed Senator Arthur Vandenberg.  His daughter eloped.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,787560,00.html
Time Magazine April 7, 1930
National Affairs: Michigan v. U. S.
Michigan citizens were last week waiting to see if U. S. agents would attempt to arrest their Governor, Fred Warren Green. And if they did, would Governor Green, as he had promised, "throw them out of the State?" And, if all that did happen, was it civil war?
What gave rise to these stirring questions was a clear-cut controversy between Michigan and the U. S. over a radio broadcasting station. Governor Green stood on the Constitution and a State's police power. The Federal Radio Commission likewise stood on the Constitution and the Federal Government's power over interstate commerce, including radio. An important test case was in the making.
This year Michigan appropriated $60,000 to set up a broadcasting system for the State police. State-owned and operated, the central station was to be in East Lansing. The power: five kilowatts. The wavelength: 124 metres. Receiving sets were to be supplied all State-police stations, all sheriffs' office's. As a matter of comity Michigan officials had taken their broadcasting plans to Washington, asked the Radio Commission to issue forthwith a permit to erect the station, a license for its operation. The Commission had rejected Michigan's demand, temporized, set a hearing date in May. Chairman Robinson of the Commission politely explained that the U. S. radio law provides no special privileges for State broadcasting, that Michigan's petition would doubtless be denied.
Governor Green was incensed at this treatment of his State by the U. S. Boldly he proclaimed that Michigan, under its police power, would proceed with its Commission. He ordered his Bufeau of Public Safety to receive bids for the whole project. He announced: "Michigan will not delay. . . . Radio is a very important factor in apprehending criminals. ... It behooves those,in authority to provide all proved methods of catching crooks."
Alarmed at such defiance, the Radio Commission called on the Department of Justice. Its agents in Michigan were instructed to "arrest the proper persons"—meaning Governor Green—if the State should start to put up its radio station.
This threat of arrest riled Governor Green even more. Warned he: "Let 'em try to arrest us! We'll do some arresting ourselves ! If they come here interfering we'll throw 'em out of the State."
Then he issued another broadside against the Radio Commission:
"The Legislature has stipulated that a station be established. We expect to carry out its mandate. Michigan is simply asserting a fundamental principle of American government and if the Commission gets in the way, that's the Commission's fault, not ours. The police power, reserved to the States, is not subject to any limitation. If the Radio Commission believes it more important that the ether be filled with jazz music and advertisements than that criminals be apprehended and punished, that's the Commission's privilege. We don't think that way and we're not going to be controlled by anyone who does."
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,787560,00.html#ixzz1ANzcfDW3
May 16, 1927
National Affairs: Michigan v. U. S.
Married. Helen Nancy ("Peggy") Green, 19, daughter of Governor Fred Warren Green of Michigan, to Norval Tyrell, managing editor of the The Wolverine, Michigan College year hook; by elopement, at Bowling Green, Ohio. Governor Green telegraphed: "You surprised us a little. .
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,736714,00.html#ixzz1AO0Rs5tJ
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,738355,00.html
AERONAUTICS: Flights & Flyers: Dec. 23, 1929
Passenger. Fred Warren Green, Michigan's Governor, proudly held Ticket No. 100,000 for a flight from Detroit to Cleveland on the regular run of the Stout Air Lines. Last year he used ticket No. 50,000 on the same line.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,738355,00.html#ixzz1AO1LSM00
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,732533,00.html
Education, More Kudos
June 24, 1929
University of Detroit Fred Warren Green, Michigan's Governor LL.D.
Read more:
 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,732533,00.html#ixzz1AO2HNbsM
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,787073,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,787073,00.html
National Affairs: Michigan's Vandenberg
April 29, 1927
Editor Arthur Hendrick Vandenberg of the Grand Rapids Herald, 44-year-old Republican, Mason, Shriner, Elk, Woodman, was appointed Senator from Michigan last week to succeed Woodbridge N. Ferris, 75-year-old Democrat who died of pneumonia last fortnight. Mr. Vandenberg made the fifth journalist in the Upper House. Fellow Republican publishers to whom he can look from behind his horn-rimmed glasses for encouragement in his maiden speech are Cutting of New Mexico, Capper of Kansas, La Follette of Wisconsin. Senator-publisher Carter Glass of Virginia sits across the aisle among the Democrats.
Though he was a friend and admirer of Woodrow Wilson, Editor-Senator Vandenberg's Republicanism is thoroughgoing. The Herald which he has edited for 22 years is owned by onetime (1907-19) Senator William Alden Smith, oldtime G. O. P. stalwart. As an author, Mr. Vandenberg is best known for his Alexander Hamilton: The Greatest American.
In appointing Senator Vandenberg, Governor Fred W. Green of Michigan stressed the advantage of youth as a qualification for the rough-and-tumble of life in Washington committee rooms. This was interpreted as a gentle explanation of why Joseph Warren Fordney, onetime (1899-1923) Michigan Representative, had been passed by. Mr. Fordney, whose massive girth and demeanor are well suited to his reputation as an Old Guardsman, is 74 years old.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,787073,00.html#ixzz1AO5GudGN
Unfortunately, not of this sheds any light on his being a coach or not.
Put it in the articles (or not) as you will.  Frankly, I don't much care about the governor. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:35, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Other stuff on Governor Green

message: Sobel, Robert, and John Raimo, eds. Biographical Directory of the Governors of the United States, 1789-1978, Vol. 2, Westport, Conn.; Meckler Books, 1978. 4 vols.:
FRED W. GREEN, the thirty-first governor of Michigan, was born in Manistee, Michigan on October 20, 1871. His education was attained at Michigan State Normal School, where he graduated in 1893, and at the University of Michigan, where he earned a law degree in 1898. During the Spanish American War, Green served in the 31st Michigan Volunteer Infantry as a first lieutenant and later was promoted to battalion adjutant. After his military service, he established a legal career, serving as the city attorney of Ypsilanti, as well as serving as the attorney for the Ypsilanti Reed Furniture Company, a business he later became owner of. Green entered politics in 1913, serving as the mayor of Ionia, a position he held until 1916. He also served as the treasurer of the Michigan Republican Party from 1915 to 1919. Green next secured the Republican gubernatorial nomination, and was elected governor by a popular vote on November 2, 1926. He was reelected to a second term in 1928. During his tenure, a comprehensive budget system was initiated; a new code of criminal practices was authorized; appropriations were secured for a state hospital building program; seven new state parks were created; and a workmen's compensation law was improved. After completing his term, Green left office on January 1, 1931. He continued to stay politically active, serving as a delegate to the 1932 Republican National Convention. Governor Fred W. Green passed away on November 30, 1936, and was buried in the Highland Park Cemetery in Ionia, Michigan.
Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 19:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: More stuff to be added

message: In the 1898 Michiganesian, U of Michigan's yearbook, in the Department of Law is listed "Fred Warren Green...Ypsilanti...Prepared at Michigan State Normal School.  Expected location, Ypsilanti...Class Athletic Manager."  See:  Jweiss11 (talk) 18:22, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't that an indirect statement that he wasn't the "Coach".  If he had been, wouldn't he have mentioned it at the time, when he recollection was fresh.  There is a legal principle Expresio unio est esclusio alterius. that applies to contract interpretation, but it would to apply here too.  The expression of one thing is the exclusion of the other.  It is common sense.  7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:40, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This means he was the class athletic manager at the University of Michigan in the 1897-1898 school year.  It suggests he had some sort of administrative role for organizing sports for students at Michigan.  He was certainly not the football coach at Michigan that year.  Gustave Ferbert was.  How does being the athletic manager at the University of Michigan in the 1897-1898 exclude one from having been a football player-coach at Michigan State Normal College two years before?  What this does establish is that Fred Warren Green, the future governor of Michigan, was involved in athletics management on the university level. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:15, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Best evidence yet in support of merger

message: Here's further evidence that we're dealing with the same guy.  The former governor Fred W. Green (an 1893 graduate of Michigan Normal and the only Michigan Normal graduate with that name) was also active in athletic administration while a student at Michigan Normal.  The 1893 Michigan Normal yearbook (called The Aurora) at page 84 indicates Fred Green was the director of the MIAA.  See link.  That means he was Michigan Normal's delegate to the Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association, an intercollegiate athletic conference that Michigan Normal joined in 1892.   The 1894 Michigan Normal yearbook seals the deal in my opinion. At page 115, it notes that Green was Michigan Normal's first delegate to the MIAA and praises Green for his ongoing efforts with the MIAA.  At page 112, it also identifies Fred Green as the school's "Manager of Foot Ball" and "Director of Sports." See link.  In 1896, Green then led Michigan Normal to the MIAA football championship -- unfortunately I can't find the 1896-1897 yearbook online.  Even without the 1897 yearbook, the 1893 and 1894 entries provide the link that the future governor who graduated from Michigan Normal in 1893 began his involvement with Michigan Normal athletics as its MIAA delegate in the 1892-1893 academic year and continued being active in the school's athletic programs after he graduated. Cbl62 (talk) 07:43, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  If someone could lay hands on the Michigan Normal newspaper or yearbook for the 1896-1897 academic year, those sources would likely put things to rest beyond any doubt.  The Ypsilanti newspaper for that year (called the Ypsilantian) would be another resource. Cbl62 (talk) 07:52, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fully compelled.  Merger executed. Jweiss11 (talk) 11:21, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, compare the photo on page 89 of the yearbook.  It doesn't list any names, but to my untrained eye the guy in the bottom right sure looks like Green in the photos we have of the gov.--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:00, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've uploaded this photo here: :File:1892 Michigan State Normal football team.png. Jweiss11 (talk) 14:46, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Further evidence there's only one Fred W. Green under discussion

message: Someone was diligent enough to put in 
*New York Times: "Fred W. Green, 64, of Michigan, Dead," November 30, 1936, accessed January 8, 2011
Unfortunately, this is only an abstract.
If someone has access, and can install a perma-link, that would help.  Thanks.  7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:20, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the link to the article. If you can provide an example of where this has been done, I'll give it a shot. But I don't believe there is any permalink-style path to archived NYTimes articles. The link to the abstract is something everyone can reach and includes a way to get to the article if you are authorized to access it. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 17:25, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I am reasonably certain that you can do this with current articles.  I have never done it with archived articles, so I can't help.  The NYT gets revenue from the articles.  I know that you can access really old (maybe pre-1923?) articles, and don't have this problem.  I've done that in the past. Sorry.  7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:29, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: NY Times obituary

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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