Talk:Bergen County, New Jersey

message: Wondering how to edit this U.S. County Entry?
The WikiProject U.S. Counties standards might help.-— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rambot (talk • contribs) 14:24, 27 July 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Can someone with better wiki knowledge please fix the horrible formatting of the section breaks? There's presently a bunch of edit links in a row, each corresponding to a different section of the document. It's screaming for help. :) Shigpit 17:12, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Bad formatting

message: I'm a complete novice and could not figure out how to fix a bad link I found on this page:
(http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Bergen_County,_New_Jersey)  
The shorcut that is supposed to link to the Bergen County Map from 1918 is trying to find the non-existent 1819 map (http://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/BERGEN_COUNTY/BergenCounty_1819.jpg).  A simple transposition, but I can't find the link nor the surrounding text at "edit this article at Wikipedia.org".  
To the next skilled person that reads this: could you change the link behind "1918" under the "Historic maps of Bergen County, courtesy Rutgers Collection" heading to "http://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/BERGEN_COUNTY/BergenCounty_1918.jpg".  This shortcut DOES go to the correct page.
John Freund
Ridgefield Park, NJ
organguy@biggerthanabreadbox.com
:John, thanks for the note.  reference.com contains an outdated snapshot of Wikipedia articles.  The link to Rutgers no longer exists in the current version of the article.  Instead, the map was uploaded to the Wikimedia Commons since it is in the public domain (published before 1923, therefore copyright expired).  For the image, see here: :File:BergenCounty 1918.jpg.  For the most-up-to-date version of Wikipedia articles, be sure to use the real page at http://en.wikipedia.org/ .  Cheers.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 16:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bad link

message: The article says the founding date of the county is 1675.  The county seal shows 1683.  Which is correct?  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:51, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I had never noticed the discrepancy, but I've seen both dates. An article describes the scenario that "In 1675 Bergen was included in a judicial district with Essex, Monmouth, and Middlesex counties. Later in 1683, Bergen was recognized as a county by the Provincial Assembly". I guess that would make the 1683 date the most reliable as the date of formation. I will change accordingly. Alansohn 01:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome, thanks.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 02:52, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: founding of Bergen County?

message: A wiki should be filled with facts, not opinions or subjective statements. In the Blue Laws section of the Bergen Co wiki, Alansohn of Teaneck insists on keeping this text intact:
"It has produced the ironic situation that one of the largest and most popular commercial shopping cores of the New York metropolitan area is almost completely closed on Sunday (grocery stores are allowed to operate). Furthermore, Bergen County has significant Jewish and Muslim populations whose observant members would not be celebrating their Sabbath on Sunday with most of their Christian neighbors. The substantial Orthodox Jewish minority is placed in the position of being unable to shop either on Sunday (due to the blue laws) or on Saturday (due to religious observance)."
It is not necessary to include this text. The "blue laws" link provides all the essential information, including the fact this day "coincides with the Christian Sabbath". In fact, I believe this is more of an objective than a factual statement. In addition, it is not completely accurate. I have not seen a "substantial" jewish orthodox nor muslim population in Bergen Co.
*The information that I insist on keeping is specifically relevant to Bergen County. Blue Laws provide a mix of benefits and burdens. For those who don't observe any religiously-derived day of rest, the benefit of a day off from shopping may very well exceed the loss of a day of shopiing for most such people. For those who do a keep a day of rest on Sunday (mostly Christians) there would seem to be no burdens imposed whatsoever. For those who keep a day of rest on a day other than Sunday -- mostly Muslims (Friday), Orthodox Jews and adherents of certain Christian demoninations (Saturday) -- the enforcement of a "secular" day of rest on Sunday means that there are two days each week when they are forbidden to engage in commerce, a substatntial burden on adherents of those faiths. I am unsure of your familiarity with either Bergen County or Wikipedia; the fact that your only two edits were an unexplained removal of text from the Bergen County article and your post here on this talk page does not provide any context for your background or participation, so let me provide some information. Teaneck (my hometown, as you feel the need to point out) has an Orthodox Jewish population of approximately 4-5,000. Englewood and Fair Lawn also have Orthodox populations of a few thousand each. Fort Lee, Bergenfield, New Milford and Paramus are among communities with Orthodox communities of several hundred to a few thousand individuals. Teaneck is home to two mosques and others are in Englewood and elsewhere around the county. Teaneck has one of a number of Seventh Day Adventist churches, whose adherents observe their Sabbath on Saturday. You can pick your definition for "substantial" -- "fairly large", "having a firm basis in reality and being therefore important, meaningful, or considerable" or "having substance or capable of being treated as fact; not imaginary" -- any of which would indicate that there truly are "substantial" numbers of individuals in Bergen County who not only observe their own day of rest, but are also burdened with being forced to observe another day of rest on Sunday, whose "secular" purpose is firmly rooted in historical efforts to enforce the Christian Sunday day of rest. As such, I believe that there is ample justification to keep this objective information in the Bergen County article. If you haven't seen any of members of Bergen County's Orthodox Jewish community, join me for a lunch of pastrami on rye at Noah's Ark on Cedar Lane in Teaneck, which has about a dozen kosher dining establishments alone, and I'll point out a few. Alansohn 19:17, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Blue Law section

message: I haven,t really read the article in a while, but it looks good to me. I'd love to get feedback on additional improvements that could be made. Furthermore, Bergen County has a thoroughly updated set of articles for the 70 municipalities, almost all of the 70+ school districts, and the overwhelming majority of high schools. Alansohn 04:23, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, even if it doesn't pass, I still think this will be a valuable exercise for the feedback we get. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 04:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Thank you for the feedback, we will work on this. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 15:06, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My thanks for the pointers, as well. I have already addressed the first comment re Blue Laws, copyediting the text and providing additional sources for the causes and effects of Bergen County's blue laws and their effects on portions of the population. Let's discuss possible enhancements to teh other sections addressed regarding achieving GA status. Alansohn 15:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article candidacy

message: Further to the WP:GA nomination, this article does not pass WP:WIAGA criteria 1. b), c) 2. a) & 4. b). 
Referencing is the most outstanding issue; "The substantial Orthodox Jewish minority is placed in the position of being unable to shop either on Sunday (due to the blue laws) or on Saturday (due to religious observance)" and other such comments, are designated as needing referencing and either should be or reworded.
There are other minor formatting issues; the History section contains multiple dates, facts and figures which need sources, and the Points of interest section would benefit from being a little less linked and converted from a long list, into either a table or normal prose. Per WP:LEAD, the opening section at one paragraph is too short also.
Consider expanding parts of the History section, especially more of the early history of Bergen County - Who were its first settlers (were they European/Native-American)? Why was it named Bergen County? Also this section in its current form reads like a list of facts, and would benefit from some referencing and collaboration from the editing community who take an interest in this article.
I should add this article is actually not far from GA status and is otherwise excellent (pictures, context, writing style etc). For high quality feedback to take this article forward however, visit Wikipedia:Peer review and follow instructions. Hope that helps, best of luck. Jhamez84 14:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the feedback, we will work on this. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 15:06, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My thanks for the pointers, as well. I have already addressed the first comment re Blue Laws, copyediting the text and providing additional sources for the causes and effects of Bergen County's blue laws and their effects on portions of the population. Let's discuss possible enhancements to teh other sections addressed regarding achieving GA status. Alansohn 15:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Failed

message: The article currently has limited mention of the rail lines in the county.  Based on looking at the rail map at :File:New Jersey railroad map.png from  (see legend here: User:SPUI/NJ railroad map), I came up with the following list of rail lines in the county.
* under Erie Railroad:
** under Paterson and Hudson River Railroad -- now Main Line (NJ Transit)
*** E1B - Paterson and Ramapo Railroad -- now Main Line (NJ Transit)
*** E1E - Bergen County Railroad -- now Bergen County Line
** E2 - Northern Railroad of New Jersey -- now CSX Northern Branch (future Northern Branch (NJ Transit))
** E3 - Hackensack and New York Railroad -- now Pascack Valley Line
*** E3A - Hackensack and New York Extension Railroad -- now Pascack Valley Line
* under New York Central Railroad
** N1 - Jersey City and Albany Railroad -- now CSX? Part of the Selkirk hurdle?
* under New York, Susquehanna and Western Railway
** S1 - New Jersey Midland Railroad -- now NYS&W
*** S1D - Hudson River Railroad and Terminal Company -- now ???
*** S1E - Edgewater and Fort Lee Railroad -- now ???
*** S1F - Hackensack and Lodi Railroad -- now ???
*** S1G - Lodi Branch Railroad -- now ???
* under Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad:
** L1 - Morris and Essex Railroad Boonton Branch? -- now ???
Can anyone confirm if this list is correct and complete?  I don't have info on whether some of these lines are currently operational or even who they belong to now.  Please correct the above as necessary.  Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 21:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Great! Thank you for your assistance. I will write up some prose for review before adding it to the article.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rail lines

message: :::moved discussion from User talk:ChrisRuvolo#Bergen County. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:06, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: "State parks: replace image; flows better and is more illustrative" -- Seriously, bro? LOL!!! Why don't you just say that you like that picture better?
(Personally, I don't know why, it seems darker and gloomier than the other one, which actually shows more crisp detail, is brighter, and looking southward, hints at a silhouette of the Manhattan skyline - but to each his own, I guess.)
96.242.217.91 (talk) 00:23, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I find it more illustrative of the palisades itself, the item of discussion.  It better displays the cliffs in thumbnail form, IMO.  Yes, this is opinion.  If there is a disagreement, we can talk to build consensus on the talk page.  As for flowing better, I was referring to the landscape aspect ratio and size of the image in relation to the other surrounding images.  Again, this is my opinion.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:01, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

text: I'd also like to bring up another point - I notice that another editor had recently posted an image of Koreatown in Palisades Park, and you nixed it calling it an empty street. I had posted the same thing perhaps a year ago, and you did the same thing, stating the same reason. First of all, that is simply not true about being an empty street - click the picture just once, and you can immediately count about seven or eight Korean businesses. Second of all, the caption I believe was referenced. Third, it may not be as dense as the Manhattan Chinatown, or maybe the picture was taken at mid-morning beween rush hour and lunch hour on a weekday when fewer people are out, or maybe the picture was just captured at the unfortunate second when people and cars were out of view - but none of these things matter, nor do they belie the legitimacy of the Koreatown's existence. I also believe that the image should go up, and to be honest, I find your viewpoint offensive on this particular point.
96.242.217.91 (talk) 00:46, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The primary subject of the photo appears to be the street and sky.  It is not for lack of cars that I object, it is the lack of the ability to tell that it is Korean businesses when in thumbnail form (even at 300 or 350px).  Even when looking at the image page, it is hard to tell since all of the signs are at oblique angles.  I would welcome a better image clearly showing that the signs are using hangul.  Compare for example :File:Day124ckoreatown.JPG and :File:Koreatown manhattan 2009.JPG.  Please assume good faith and do not ascribe objectionable reasons for the image's removal without talking to me first.  The removal of the image does not indicate that the existence of Koreatown is somehow illegitimate, merely that it is not illustrative.  As for the references, two of the three are in the article already.  If the "serious eats" reference is important, it should be added to the main text.  BTW, lets take this to the article talk page for any further discussion.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:01, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

text: I would like a Koreatown image in the article, but this one doesn't make the cut in my opinion.  Lets take this to the article talk page for any further discussion.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:01, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree as well that it's not the MOST illustrative image, and that it could definitely be improved upon. However, not all pictures on Wikipedia are ideally illustrative. You do the best with what you're dealt with at the moment, and the hangul signs to me are apparent if not obvious with a single click. So for the time being, until a better picture is taken by someone, I believe this image (with a suitably referenced caption) adds some decent value that is more useful and informative than having nothing at all. I believe we need some compromise with regards to the images - you want both the Palisades image and this issue to fit in accord with your opinions above others' reasonable viewpoints, and in my humble opinion, that is not correct. So perhaps we can include the Koreatown image but leave the Palisades image that you like better, if you're amenable to that.
96.242.217.91 (talk) 18:11, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, we can do that.  It probably won't stand up to a good article review, but it might be a useful placeholder.  I labeled it indicating that users should click on it to see the Korean signs.  I hope this doesn't cause undue weight.  We might want to seek out similar photos for other ethnic groups already mentioned in the demographics section.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 22:15, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Absolutely, sounds like a plan. I'm just not aware of any other such (commercial) ethnic enclaves in the County - I've been looking for a Little Italy here - are you aware of such a commercial district in the South County?
96.242.217.91 (talk) 02:02, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I'm not aware of any Italian-focused commercial districts.  The Mitsuwa market in Edgewater could be considered a Japanese district, but that might be a stretch considering that it consists of a strip mall, supermaket and food court.  I think photos of individual businesses with non-english signs (of any of the mentioned groups) might be easier to find.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:54, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Will definitely look around - although I think that in this particular county, there might be no other bona fide commercial ethnic enclaves - The significant Korean presence tends to be a hallmark of Bergen County.
96.242.217.91 (talk) 11:12, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos 

message: Would someone closer please expand Bergen Performing Arts Center before it is up for removal?--Wikipietime (talk) 17:10, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  BergenPac 

message: I made this edit to the article in an effort to correct the formatting issue found in the "municipalities" section, where an editor has stacked images, thereby pushing the chart way down the page.  It's a visual nightmare which I thought I had fixed, until another editor reverted it, stating in their edit summary "revert to longstanding stable version; the old formatting has never been expressed as an apparent problem for (many) years. For such a drastic change after so many years, please take it Talk. Also, you may want to check your browser".  The input of other editors would be appreciated.  Thank you.  Magnolia677 (talk) 03:38, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have that issue with my browser. The pictures have always been stacked (forever) and have not been upset by the insertion of the new chart. More importantly, the images relate to particular sections. Looks standard to me. Castncoot (talk) 05:21, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no issues with the article as it stands on my cellphone or on any of three different browsers checked on a variety of devices. Never assume that the rest of the world sees all things the way you see it on your screen. Alansohn (talk) 16:20, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have the same problem in my computer browser, on a standard width, that the images stack at the beginning of the Municipalities section and block the following table and leave a lot of white space. When I have it large and very wide the images run down the right hand side of the table. On my mobile phone and tablet the screen is too narrow to show this problem since everything is displayed in a long column anyway. What do you see? Secondarywaltz (talk) 23:45, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting problem 

message: Should the photos be stacked at Bergen County, New Jersey#Municipalities?  It appears to add excessive whitespace.  Magnolia677 (talk) 00:20, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you see? Do the images stack above the Municipalities table in your browser? Secondarywaltz (talk) 14:13, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: "It's not even clear what you think the alternative might be."  It would be this.  Magnolia677 (talk) 01:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC: Should the photos be stacked in the municipalities section?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Bergen County Police Department consists of a single paragraph, and seems to only be notable for having been merged into the sheriff's department. It would make more sense to include that information in the section on county government, or perhaps a new section on law enforcement. Apocheir (talk) 23:39, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose. While not sufficiently covered here, the merger was a topic that received significant local media coverage and shows significant notability of the police department as an independent topic. oknazevad (talk) 00:05, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment. In , you said the BCPD was notable during its existence. However, the only citations on the page pertain to the merger. Can you provide sources for whatever it was notable for before the merger? -Apocheir (talk) 01:28, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

text: Support: The police department is not notable enough to warrant an independent article. Information about the merger can be included in this article. ~BappleBusiness[talk] 01:27, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

text: Support because the page is a stub. —ÐW-🇺🇦(T·C) 21:46, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of [[Bergen County Police Department]] into [[Bergen County, New Jersey]] 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:43, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: The history section describes the failed attempts by the Dutch to settle what is now Jersey City in the 1630s, then goes on to say that Bergen Township (founded c.1660) was the first permanent European settlement. The referenced article is equally misleading but solely focused on Jersey City (not Bergen). That reference would be correct if it did not use the word "permanent" because the 1630 settlements failed. Even so, the 1660 date might be true for East Jersey but not for West Jersey. The modern state of NJ includes New Sweden, on the Delaware River, the settlements of which were never abandoned. For instance, Swedesboro, established by 1649, may in fact be the earliest permanent (i.e., never abandoned) European settlement in what is now New Jersey.
So that sentence in the article needs to be changed. I just wanted to mention that here before changing it. -Tiredmeliorist (talk) 18:13, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, the 1660 settlement is in present-day Jersey City. That's still not the earliest European settlement in NJ today. It's also in Hudson County, so needs some clarification there. -Tiredmeliorist (talk) 11:27, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Earliest European Settlement