Talk:Tokyo Mew Mew/Archive 3

message: You know what else I wanted to add to the articles? The Japanese katakana spelling for the Mews' "Mew" names and other related stuff. The weapons' and attacks' names are mentioned in the articles, but not all of them, and their transformation sayings do not have katakana at all (by the way, I tend to use "metamorphose" instead of "metamorphosis", as it is more correct, but it is really not a big deal, it's not a bad mistake like "ribbon"). It seems to be rather hard to find this info on the Web, as they don't have much transformation phrases in the manga.
Yume no Kishi 10:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They're both correct grammar, really. It's just that metamorphose is a verb and metamorphosis is a noun. So if you really wanted to be accurate then Mew Mew Metamorphosis would be the technique itself, while Mew Mew Metamorphose would be what they are doing when they use it. As for which makes the better henshin name, I'm not sure. (Are the other moves verbs or nouns?):
Now in not sure when the say their henshin, it refering to the techinique or what theyre doing.
"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 23:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metamorphosis or Metamorphose? 

message: Is it really necessary to include the Italian version in this article? I thought that other anime/manga articles only discuss the Japanese and English releases only, and list everything else under International versions...
But how exactly does the Italian Version of TMM differ from other versions like German, French, Spanish, Russian, Portugese etc???? 
Renaika56
I think the Italian Version is necessary...I mean SOME THINGS JUST NEED TO BE DUBBED!!Ichigo's voice REALLY needed to be & some people don't have computers to watch the Jap. version or the English version, some Italian's don't even know English!So they rely on the Dub's...
RedEyesMetal 21:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the Italian version really necessary? 

message: (aka Predasites) I don't know which side to take on this. It's either: with L, or no L. --Addict 2006 00:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chimera Anima(l)s: Here we go again 

message: OK, first of all, it's been made clear to me that every time I delete anything from the "mistakes" section, it's going to be reverted, and every time that I argue that something belongs elsewhere, nobody is going to agree, so instead I'm going to try to ensure that what is there is up to code. So here goes.
Under WP:V, we are permitted to point out the differences between two versions of the same thing because we can cite the original media as a source. However, under WP:OR we are not permitted to draw conclusions or to make suppositions that were not first published by an authoritative source (fan sites are not authoritative, statements by the author, publisher or translators are). This means that we can safely say that she is X years old in 1 and Y years old in 2, based on the WP:V value of the Manga/Anime alone. However, we cannot even attempt to say why this is without a WP:RS to back up what we say.
===Avoiding supposition===
In
When first published in Nakayoshi, Ichigo's age was given as X and her school grade was given as Y, but when published by TP, they were given as A and B.
Out
1) When first published in Nakayoshi, Ichigo's age was given as X and her school grade was given as Y, however, Tokyo pop mistakenly translated this to C and D.
This is out because, "Mistakenly" is a supposition or conclusion that is not backed up by WP:RS, making it WP:OR. Put simply we can't prove that this was done accidentally so we can't say that it was.
2) When first published in Nakayoshi, Ichigo's age was given as X and her school grade was given as Y, however, Tokyo pop translated this to C and D. This may have been a mistake, or may have been to appeal to a different audience demographic.
This is out because, we are introducing two suppositions (that it was a mistake, or that it was deliberate) that are not backed up by WP:RS, making it WP:OR. Put simply we can't prove why it was done so we can't introduce possible reasons.
===Cannon stream===
When pointing out the differences we must be careful to only compare appropriate cannon streams. If one stream is based on another, then it can be contrasted, if one stream is a second version of another then it can be compared. However, we should be careful not to cross streams that are neither parallel nor derivative.
The Japanese Anime is a derivative of the Nakayoshi Manga. One was made using the other as a guide, so they can it can be contrasted against teach other. The TP Manga is a translation of the Nakayoshi Manga, so they can be compared. The 4Kids Cartoon is a derivative of the Japanese Anime. One was made using material and plot from the other, so they can be contrasted.
However the TP Manga is based on the Nakayoshi Manga, not the Japaneses cartoon, so the TP Manga and the Japanese cartoon can neither be compared nor contrasted. Likewise, the 4Kids cartoon is based on the Japanese Anime whielthe TP Manga is based on the Nakayoshi Manga, so the 4Kids cartoon and the TP Manga cannot be compared or contrasted to each other. Yes, they all share a common ancestor and tell the same story, but they are not directly related enough to compare/contrast. This might sound harsh, but too many people have been involved in between these different versions for them to be directly compared/contrasted.
===Unrelated media===
Using unrelated media for comparative purposes falls under WP:OR as you are introducing the supposition that two different Manga/Anime are using the same universal rules/logic. What happens in Sailor Moon (for example) stays in Sailor Moon.
For example.
Out
Yusagi was X years old when she was in Y Grade so......
This is out because there were different writer and different translators, and there is no rule saying that what happens in one Manga must also happen another, or even match reality.
FYI: Tokyopopo translated the Sailor Moon manga, but was known as Mixx. That is why a note about her.  "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 00:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doing it by the book 

message: Using unrelated media for comparative purposes falls under WP:OR as you are introducing the supposition that two different Manga/Anime are using the same universal rules/logic. What happens in Sailor Moon (for example) stays in Sailor Moon.
For example.
Out
Yusagi was X years old when she was in Y Grade so......
This is out because there were different writer and different translators, and there is no rule saying that what happens in one Manga must also happen another, or even match reality.
FYI: Tokyopopo translated the Sailor Moon manga, but was known as Mixx. That is why a note about her.  "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 00:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unrelated media

message: * We can't say that it was a translation error, or a deliberate alteration, unless we have WP:V/WP:RS backing us up.
* We can't compare it to other Manga/Anime because they might be set in different universe with different grading systems, or one or the other might simply have a writer who doesn't care about age/grade accuracy etc.
* We can't compare/contrast the TP Manga to the Japanese Anime because there is a layer of difference in between.
* We can say that differences exist
* We can say what they are
* We can say that it was a deliberate/accidental change IF we have an authoritative source saying this.
perfectblue 08:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: In brief

message: Regarding this hidden comment left on the main page.
"As if the section about alterations in Mew Mew Power doesn't have such statements... So it is OK to say that many fans did not like "Mew Mew Power", even though there are those who like it simply because it's in English... but it's not OK to say they didn't think the manga translation to be accurate? I'm pretty sure there are people who have no clue what these words mean"
"As if the section about alterations in Mew Mew Power doesn't have such statements....."
Content is just as bad there as it is here. The only difference is that nobody has pointed it out yet.
"so it is OK to say that many fans did not like "Mew Mew Power"......"
It's OK, if you can cite it.
"but it's not OK to say they didn't think the manga translation to be accurate?"
Again, this can be said, but not in the way that it is currently being said. As it is currently written, this section is a WP:OR and WP:V violation, but it doesn't have to be. It can be re-written to be entirely self citing. It's all in the wording.
"I'm pretty sure there are people who have no clue what these words mean"
Yes, but it's excusable.
perfectblue 09:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  hidden user comment 

message: Does anybody here actually "OWN" the Manga of TMM in Japanese?
If you do, could you see your way to scanning Ichigo's introduction so we can prove that TP is different. Doing so would satisfy WP:V and WP:RS by showing an object example of the two side by side.
perfectblue 14:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  confirmation 

message: Aren't we getting way too much into this "ribbon"/"reborn" thing? All we need is one or two sentences in the attack sections explaining that it's "reborn" and Tokyopop misread the similar-looking katakana, not a whole bunch of paragraphs explaining the difference between "ribbon" and "reborn" over and over again including pictures and examples from other mangas. I can see you guys have put a lot of hard work into it, but it's just going over the top. --Candy-Panda 02:53, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much "Ribbon/Reborn" 

message: OK, another thing about the Italian version - it seems to have omitted episode 48. I mean, last week, I was recording all the Italian Tokyo Mew Mew episodes, that were aired that week, and strangely, the Italian TV channel, that airs it, Italia uno, aired a second Spongebob Squarepants episode, instead of Tokyo Mew Mew episode 48 (that is, that day, they aired two episodes of Spongebob Squarepants, instead of one Spongebob Squarepants episode, followed by one Tokyo Mew Mew episode).
So, I now wonder, why they did that. Does episode 48 have any content, that would have been considered objectionable in Italy? I don't know. All I know is, that Tokyo Mew Mew episode 48 was omitted from the Italian version. As for why - it's beyond me.
Also in episode 46 or 47 (I don't remember in which one now, exactly), an insert song with lyrics in Japanese, was replaced with either the Reborn Strawberry Check music, or another, very similar tune, in the Italian version.  - OBrasilo 13:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More alterations in the Italian version 

message: Maybe this is just me but I've noticed another difference between Tokyo Mew Mew and Mew Mew Power. After looking at the screenshots from Mew Mew Power Uncensored, it looks like the screenshots of Mew Mew Power are fuzzier then the Tokyo Mew Mew. And, it looks like their skin tone is lighter . I've also seen this with One Piece. I'm not sure if it is with mentioning, but it seems a little strange.   "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 17:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hmm 

message: Today, I found a YouTube video, with the Mew Mew Power opening, played backwards.
It's interesting to hear the words, that the backwards playing of this song gives us - it's basically a whole new, emo song, about teen pregnancy (and it's true, at least I was able to hear some clearly intelligible English words), complete with profanity (at one point, the singer complains, that they f**ked her up, and even later on, she sings the word sh**).
Now, I'm wondering - apart from the words I heard there, are all the words, that the poster of the video heard there, actually there? If yes, then why did Bree Sharp do that in the Mew Mew Power opening?  - OBrasilo 18:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ^_^;;;;;;; That's an ancient joke that was applied at least once to every anime song... I've heard tons of them about "Sailor  Moon" songs, both the original and those from NASM. It's not even funny already... 夢の騎士Yume no Kishi - Talk
I. doubt. it. is. note. uh. ble. *Vader breathe*. --Addict 2006 04:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah... considering how many articles still need improvement, we shouldn't waste time on this... 夢の騎士Yume no Kishi - Talk 05:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mew Mew Power opening, when played backwards 

message: OK, I found a very good Italian site about Tokyo Mew Mew, with all the weapons and attacks of the Mew Mew's, and more.
The site is here: http://www.mewsisters.org/tokyomewmew/personaggi/attacchi.htm .
So, first let's make a correction to the above:
Mint/Mew Mint (Mina/Mew Mina in the Italian version)
Original weapon: Mint Arrow.
Italian weapon: Cuore di Mina (Mina's heart).
Then, let's add this one:
Ichigo/Mew Ichigo (Strawberry/Mew Berry in the Italian version), with the Mew Aqua Rod:
Original weapon: Mew Aqua Rod.
Italian weapon: Not named.
:Supposed original activation: O Virga Mew Aquæ, luce (O Purity of Mew Aqua, shine, or O Mew Aqua Rod, shine).
:Note: I'm watching episode 26 right now, for this exact purpose, and the #honobono subs say: O Virga Mew Aquæ, luce (O Purity of Mew Aqua, shine), even though Ichico does shout the above-mentioned English phrase, thus the original activation is in English, and as thus, it's listed below.
Original activation: Mew Aqua Rod, Shining.
Italian activation: "Acqua Cristallo, Risplendi (Water Crystal, Shine)." in episode 26, and "Cuore del Cristallo, Risplendi (Heart of the Crystal, Shine)." in episode 43.
:Supposed original attack: Reborn Aquæ Guttæ. And yes, it's guttæ, not vitæ, also since guttæ is plural for gutta, which is Latin for drop.
:Note: Once again, #honobono's unnecessarily sub latinization. Yes, the subs use the above mentioned-phrase, but I can clearly hear Ichigo screaming: Reborn Aqua Drops! Thus, the original activation is in English, and as thus, it's listed below.
Original attack: Reborn Aqua Drops!
Italian attack: Fiocco di goccie (Ribbon of the drops)!
So, that would be it for now. ;)  - OBrasilo 14:50, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ugh, bad subbing! That statement "#honobono's unnecessary sub Latinization" should be emphasized... --Addict 2006 01:30, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italian version once again 

message: Mew aqua this, Mew Aqua that... I can't find a place where it says WHAT that is... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 03:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ehh. I doubt even the characters know, or if it's even noteworthy of its own article... --Addict 2006 01:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mew Aqua 

message: there NEEDS to be a template including the internation version, the spinoffs and episodes. the section are too small.   THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED! 20:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll try to make one... 夢の騎士Yume no Kishi - Talk 23:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made one. ^_^ 夢の騎士Yume no Kishi - Talk 00:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please also have a look at my proposed template and comment on it. (Template_talk:Tokyo_Mew_Mew). - G.A.S 15:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  A lot of relevant items does not seem to be linked (other than through the navigation template) - for instance International adaptations of Tokyo Mew Mew. This makes the category fragmented, esp if you searched for Mew Mew Power, and get redirected to Tokyo Mew Mew. Other than the template, there is no link to the dubbed version. (And the template is at the very bottom.) - G.A.S 15:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TEMPLATE 

message: The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be 100% applicable.
* If there is not a free use image in the top right corner of the article, please try to find and include one.[?]
*Per Wikipedia:What is a featured article?, Images should have concise captions.[?]
* Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
* As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), dates shouldn't use th; for example, instead of using January 30th was a great day, use January 30 was a great day.[?] — Only used in comment
* Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.[?]
* Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
**Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant -  “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
* The script has spotted the following contractions: don't, doesn't, doesn't, doesn't, doesn't, don't, won't, won't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded.
* As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]
See User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. G.A.S  11:48, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Automated peer review. 

message: *The lead needs work
*The plot needs work - it is currently too in-universe.
** Plot : "This should comprise a succinct description of the plot and major subplots" 
***Succinct description of the plot - To be added (Currently provided in-universe; most likely only minor fixes will be required.)
***Major subplots - To be added.
*Characters: Subheaders (Mew Mews/Friends/...) I do not believe this is necessary, it can easily be provided in the list itself per character (and to some degree, already is given).
*Some sources are still required. (I will add tags, and more when I copy edit)
I will add more items when I pick them up, and update the section above. 
Regards, G.A.S  17:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Manual items found

message: Can anybody tell me how to say the phrase in japanese?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ailes Grises (talk • contribs) 21:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: For your evil actions, I will make you pay!

message: Whatever happened to the profiles we had on this page for Ringo, Gatou, and the other PS game characters?
69.111.17.70 01:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hey 

message: it says mints name is trancelated 2 the flower called "mint" but isn't she named after the mint that's in ice cream and breath mints which would explain why her suite is aqua or light blue which is the color or breath mints or mint flavored ice cream  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.212.39 (talk) 22:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  mints name translation 

message: These are links for the articles before some major modifications, in case old content is required. This is mainly to know where we came from. — G.A.S  05:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Milestones

message: It has been suggested by AnmaFinotera that the above mentioned article be merged back into this article (suggesting merge back to main article; no reason to have separate — AnmaFinotera).
*Merge. G.A.S  05:39, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge [[Tokyo Mew Mew (manga)]] into this article 

message: I'd like to propose that all of the character articles in :Category:Tokyo Mew Mew characters be merged into a single List of Tokyo Mew Mew characters, with minor characters and species articles deleted all together.  None of these articles meet the necessary notability requirements for existence.  As such, they should be shortened up to not be pure plot regurgitation and merged into a single, well-written, well-sourced list. For List of minor characters in Tokyo Mew Mew, I've sent it to AfD.  We do not need a list of characters who only appear in a single episode. They are not notable for mention beyond the episode summaries.AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The injunction is over, so shall we get this discussion going? AnmaFinotera (talk) 01:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character Articles 

message: The Tokyopop manga for the main series uses Kirema Anima, however some say a La Mode uses Chimera Anima (can't confirm myself) so I'm trying to figure out which one we should use.  The Chimera Anima article is pretty useless as it is mostly OR and gives no evidence to support the claim that Chimera Anima is correct. To me, I'm thinking Kimera Anima is the one to use, as that is the actual romanization of キメラアニマ.  Thoughts here? AnmaFinotera (talk) 22:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the Manual of Style for Japan-related articles "An English loan word or place name of Japanese origin should be used in its most common English form in the body of an article, even if it is pronounced or spelled differently from the properly romanized Japanese". I can see no evidence that Kimera is not a loan word and I can see the logic of using Chimera (mythology)/Chimera (genetics) as well. I had a look at Google's language tools, and it translates "キメラ" as "Chimera" and "アニマ" as "Anima". Furthermore, searching "キメラ" on the Japanese Wikipedia provides the Chimera (genetics) article. Thus I believe that Chimera is correct. G.A.S  06:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, after I posted that, while looking at various Japanese sites for sources, I saw Babelfish translates it to Chimera Anima as well.  Total side question, but do you find Google's language tools to be any better than Babelfish? AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:50, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I have never used Babelfish before, and will need to test it (I prefer to use multiple tools when available). URL please? G.A.S  08:09, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Here ya go  AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 12:50, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I tend to use http://tool.nifty.com/globalgate which uses the same engine as http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/ and it is better than babelfish IMO, not sure about Google (I think the last time I tested it gave the same results as babelfish anyway). Shiroi Hane (talk) 14:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

text: It seems to me that Google language tools is a bit off at the moment, and agree with Shiroi Hane; I believe they used the same engine last time, as Babelfish's translation of the Japanese article seem familiar to me. G.A.S  15:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah.  Thanks for checking :) I'm always hoping for something slightly better, since half the time the stuff that comes out makes about as much sense as nothing LOL.  While I have picked up a few Japanese words that I understand if I hear, my reading ability is next to zero, and likely to stay that way.  Way too many kanji! Meanwhile, I'm going to try to get the new episode list during the week, using your sandbox as a starting point. AnmaFinotera (talk) 15:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chimera Anima vs Kirema Anima 

message: The chapter list is up and at List of Tokyo Mew Mew chapters.  All that is left that I can see is finishing the chapter lists, and adding summaries. I think I've sourced everything already in there. Thoughts/feedback? AnmaFinotera (talk) 23:26, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In principle, I believe it is good, it require some cleanup though (eg. spelling, grammar, punctuation). I can only take a detailed look later, though. I have noticed that the Japanese text and Romaji is not provided, is it possible to do so? How about some info about the format? G.A.S  05:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll see if I can find a list of the Japanese chapters, but might have to go without for now. Its one of the biggest challenges we usually have with chapter lists :( In this case, though, I have found some of the Japanese volumes, and its looking like the chapter names may be a pure TP thing.  Gonna check a few more volumes first. Info on the format? Can you give me an example of what you mean? AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:12, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Format: black and white or color? Reading order of panes? etc. G.A.S  07:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah. No, that usually isn't included unless its unusual. Both the Japanese and TP releases are done in standard formats. AnmaFinotera (talk) 14:48, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Chapter List