Talk:Queen's University at Kingston/Archive 2

message: Just wanted to re-add this userbox to the talk page, for any Queen's students or alumni who want to show their colours. For information on usage check out Template:User Queen's or :Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: Queen's. Cheers.  --Greenmind 05:55, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

message: Would anyone care to tell me how jackets, songs, Rivalry, Smokers, Homecoming and Frosh Week are relevant and encyclopedic? Ardenn 18:47, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So how is that encyclopedic and why does it merit inclusion in an encyclopedia? Ardenn 20:51, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not vandalizm, it's asking you to cite sources per Wikipedia policy. Ardenn 23:44, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The sources talk about the jackets, but that's it. They don't establish notability. Ardenn 23:56, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Ardenn is clearly incompetent if he's deleting sources and then saying we're not citing them. --Tykell 23:55, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ardenn should keep a cool head! I thought he was quitting wikipedia anyways because we're so self-rightous. --Tykell 23:59, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: You have blanked pages without having a discussion and acheiving majority consent. I believe that you have gone rogue, sir, and have no business here since your editing of this article is clearly biased. As I see, an admin has ruled against you. Good day. --Tykell 00:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no comments from an admin on this talk page about this article specifically. I removed unverified and copyright material. Ardenn 00:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Don't talk bollocks! And stop playing games. look at your own behaviour here." --Tykell 00:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That wasn't about this article. Ardenn 00:32, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I was not talking about this article. I was talking about revert warring on a user talk page. Ardenne perhaps the matter could be resolved if you explained what material is unverified and what is copyrighted? Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 00:40, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The songs are under copyright I believe. As for unverfied and unencyclopedic is the section on the darn jackets. I simply don't think they belong in an encyclopedia. Ardenn 00:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, I do. However, I should probably have left the rest and just removes the lyrics. I apologize over that. Ardenn 00:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Traditions

message: As a student at two competitor schools (albeit more than a decade ago), I can say that their is a clear sense of tradition in the jackets.  The sourcing looks legitimate for verification (i.e. the Queen's admissions page lists jackets as part of the tradition ; what more verification do you need?) -- Samir   (the scope) धर्म  00:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right.  Whether they are encyclopedic or not is the question.  But this is probably better raised another day so that cooler heads can debate.  -- Samir   (the scope) धर्म  00:58, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Well two of the warring parties have been blocked for 24 hours to cool down and the page is currently protected. So yes, it's time to let things sleep for a bit. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 01:02, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, verification is one, and then there's the encyclopedic merit. While it is part of school pride, IMHO, it does not merit entry in an encyclopedia. I doubt you would see it in Brittanica. Ardenn 00:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not brittinica and shouldn't strive to be so. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 21:09, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why shouldn't we strive to be so? Is Wikipedia not an encyclopedia? Ardenn 23:07, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wikipedia should strive to be considerably better than Britannica. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 11:05, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

text: There are many more minor things included on other university pages that discuss traditions, and yes the jackets are known at other Canadian schools as it is one of the trademarks of the school's students. Therefore, it is notable. http://aics.acadiau.ca/case_studies/xavierjacket.html is a link that discusses how students at Xavier University modelled their jackets somewhat based on the one's from Queen's (also indicating that something as seemingly unimportant as a jacket was known in NEW BRUNSWICK). I'm not sure why this is such a big issue. Traditions are arguably the most important component of a university, so this is nitpicking moreso than anything.
"The leather jacket would have the university crest and the person's residence crest on each sleeve and the name of the faculty/program on the back, much like those Joe had seen at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario. Erin questioned whether there was a market for the all season design and if it would cut into sales of Xavier jackets."
JaysCyYoung 20:43, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

text: In the grand scheme of things, outside of Queen's students and alumni, who actually cares about the jackets? Why would someone from Australia or Ireland care about the jackets? Why should they be included? We strive to make this important for people outside of your own small community to read. Ardenn 23:05, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Stevage hit the nail on the head.  If there is outside sourcing of the importance of the jackets, that would strengthen the argument to keep them.  I've really enjoyed the new additions to the article by JaysCyYoung (particularly the pictures, which add a lot), but we must remember the importance of external verification. -- Samir   धर्म 01:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, thought JaysCyYoung added the pics, but I guess I just haven't looked at the Queen's article in a while... -- Samir   धर्म 01:57, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

text: "Why would someone from Australia or Ireland care about the jackets? Why should they be included?"
Who cares about the school in the first place outside of the people who go there? Your point does not detract from the component that they are an integral part of the school's student culture and create a major source of group and school identity. Once again, the tradition aspect of the jackets and the fact that they are so closely identified with the school, especially by the students themselves, is of paramount importance in this instance. For example, I am aware of a U of T student tradition in the Engineering Faculty whereby students wear Hard Hats and they are expected to protect them from Arts and Science students. I did not atend the school but am aware of it. Chances are most likely that, if you asked a U of T student about Queen's Jackets, they would know what they were and their significance to the Queen's population.
^New Edit - "The Engineering Jacket is the most common item associated with the Queen's Engineer. The gold leather and words "Queen's Applied Science" are recognized worldwide, and are synonymous with the spirit of Queen's Engineering students.
First year students can join the 95% of Queen's engineers on campus who own an Engineering Jacket (also known as Golden Party Armour or GPA for short) and wear it with pride."'''
http://appsci.queensu.ca/prospective/tradition/jackets/
JaysCyYoung 02:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Not that it means much, I went to U of T and we knew about Queen's jackets and Queen's jacket bars.  I do agree that we need external verification of the importance -- Samir   धर्म 02:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ardenn has apparently done that to several other users as well, including myself. I'm not sure why he does act in that manner, and I've sought administrative help in the past. However, back to the discussion... the above point is what I have been trying to say all along. It's not so much the jackets that I am trying to plead the case for but the precedent being set here. IF you take away one of the major traditions of a university, which, as the above user stated, is a key factor for many prospective students in attending that institution, what is the point of mentioning any at all on Wikipedia? They are a core component of the school and play a valuable if not integral role in student culture. That is why they are relevant for discussion. JaysCyYoung 21:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jackets

message: As things appear to have settled down, I have unprotected the page. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 15:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Page unlocked

message: does Queen's one has anything related to University of Edinburgh's one ?
It doesn't look very similar, the large structure is rather different indeed, but the large blue cross is remarkable. -- 172.176.189.246 13:36, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Coat of Arms

message: What is the "broader learning environment"?  Isn't this simply fancy term for a more residential school? ManjaMan 02:35, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Broader Learning Environment"

message: *I've proposed that both Clark hall pub and Grant Hall be merged here. First of all due to the precedent set at Vari Hall and York Lanes. The fact is, neither of these buildings are notable in and of themselves. They are notable simply by association with the University. They would do fine to have a section in the main article, but there's no reason for them to have their own articles. -- pm_shef 01:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * I respectfully disagree with you on Grant Hall. It is one symbolic building within a well known university (I certainly don't think all buildings on campus should have their own article). Sure, it can probably be expanded with relevant history, but a merger as you suggested would not be appropriate in my opinion. I don't know what you're referencing with the examples you cited, but I would offer Widener Library and Stanford Memorial Church as other examples of key buildings in well-known universities having their own articles. In regards to Clark hall pub, I would suggest a more appropriate merger would be to merge with Queen's Faculty of Applied Science, as everyting seem to be relevant only to AppSci.--Greenmind 01:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

text: * The Robarts Library already has its own article. --Greenmind 01:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

text: * Grant Hall isn't necessarily more notable than either of your examples. Again, I'm not saying every university campus building in Canada should have an article. But landmark buildings are appropriate, especially in well known universities (Queen's, McGill, UofT, maybe UBC and Waterloo as well). I'd be fine with the McGill Arts Building having its own article, as I'm not affiliated with McGill in any way and still I know it's status as an iconic and historic building. --Greenmind 01:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But landmark buildings are appropriate, especially in well known universities (Queen's, McGill, UofT, maybe UBC and Waterloo as well).  Spot the Queen's ego.:)  I think Grant Hall should bb merged.  I see nothing wrong with that.  I am not comfortable with having Clark in Wikipedia, abd it should not be merged with the Queen's University, I don't think queens is very fond of it. Pete Peters 03:01, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging '''Clark Hall Pub''' and '''Grant Hall''' 

message: We need experts on history, the campus architecture, and on organisations like student council. Isn't this a good enough explanation!? --Speedystickd 19:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it needs more explanation but I'm happy to wait for others to weigh in and offer their opinions.  --ElKevbo 19:23, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Experts