Talk:Division of Oxley

message: Hanson was never a Liberal MP. She had been disendorsed by the party before the date of her election, therefore she was never a Liberal MP. The fact that the name appeared on the ballot paper was only because there needs to be a cut-off to print the ballot papers. Frickeg (talk) 14:45, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hanson 

message: There appears to be a disagreement about the precise wording to be used in the box about Hayden.  One view is that the statement that Hayden "Resigned in order to become Governor-General of Australia" is sufficient.  But this statement (in this bald form) is clearly not correct.  It is factually wrong.  It follows from the previous sentence which reads that Hayden "Served as Opposition Leader from 1977 to 1983".  The sentence therefore implies that Hayden resigned as Opposition leader "in order to become Governor-General."  But Hayden did NOT resign in 1983 "in order to to become Governor-General."  Rather, he resigned under pressure in order to pass on the Labor leadership to Bob Hawke.  It was only later, in 1988, that Hayden resigned from Parliament to become Governor-General.  (A letter setting out the reasons in detail for Hayden's resignation in 1988 can be found in the Prologue to the book by Paul Kelly, 1984, The Hawke Ascendancy.)
The confusion over the grammar about this matter can easily be tidied up by the simple insertion of the words " ... from Parliament in 1988 ..." in the sentence about resignation.  If these words are inserted, there is no longer any confusion because the sentence reads "Resigned from Parliament in 1988 in order to become Governor-General."  Pmccawley (talk) 10:47, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: As I've already explained when I explained my edit reversions, the sentence "Resigned in order to become Governor-General of Australia" is completely separate from, and has nothing to do with the one sentence that is to do with Hayden's time as Opposition Leader, which is what you don't seem to fully realise. There is one sentence, and one sentence only that is devoted to mentioning Hayden's tenure as Opposition leader - and links as well on the years he served with the leadership contests that bookended his leadership. In literally no example of former major party leader bios on these lists are the circumstances of their departure from the position detailed (be it in the one sentence, or in its own sentence) - yes, that includes Whitlam. Had Hayden not served as a minister (and a senior, central one at that - not that it's at all relevant) under Whitlam first (before he became Opposition leader), his tenure as a minister under Hawke would have been placed in between his time as Opposition leader and his resignation from Parliament in the bio. In every other example of Opposition leaders who never became Prime Minister and resigned from Parliament triggering a by-election, the same template as the one with Hayden is used. A simple to follow template where (not including non-notable backbench cases, to which the only sentence is to do with their manner of departure from Parliament - be it resignation, retirement or death) you have positions attained in order of when they were first attained (such as becoming a minister; Opposition Leader; Prime Minister; etc.). If they served in another division prior (or another Parliament entirely), that information would be listed first. But the final sentence is always to do with the manner of departure from Parliament, with no exceptions whatsoever (unless that person was later elected to another division) so that there is no confusion. And so far, you are the first and only person to misconstrue the wording and think that it is to do with Hayden's departure from the Opposition leadership. Which is pretty surprising especially since it's obvious by looking at Hayden's entry and seeing that he left Parliament on 17 August 1988 that the line regarding his resignation from Parliament has absolutely nothing to do with his departure from a role he had left in 1983. There is no need to add a superfluous "from Parliament in (insert year of departure)" especially considering his date of departure is already included for everyone to see on the Term section of Hayden's entry (just as it is for everybody else). Thescrubbythug (talk) 13:05, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: * Disagreed.  Thank you for the response.  However there is on-going disagreement about this matter.  As I see it, the shortened version of the reference to Hayden (which reads “Served as Opposition Leader from 1977 to 1983.  Resigned in order to become Governor-General.”) is clearly misleading.  The wording implies that Hayden resigned as Opposition Leader to become Governor-General and this is wrong.  It is a pity that Wikipedia carries a misleading description.  We can easily find compromise with the addition of just four words (“…from parliament in 1988 …”) but apparently there is no spirit of compromise.  Enough time has now been spent on the matter.  Perhaps somebody else can make a correction some other time.Pmccawley (talk) 21:41, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: *Happy to hear contributions from other users, though once again it’s pretty hard to find the original (and current) wording misleading under the circumstances, and there is no implication such as the one you are insinuating about the current wording whatsoever. To me it’s pretty clear cut. But I’ve already explained myself thoroughly and there’s nothing more I could possibly add. Thescrubbythug (talk) 21:51, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Hayden's resignation from Parliament

message: Open flashlight 2001:8003:3E17:1C00:C86E:A3BF:86B1:FA0E (talk) 12:08, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oxley oxley