Talk:Solaris (1972 film)

message: Said a mysterious not logged in editor: "Soderberg's version is new adaptation, not remake"
:Friend, perhaps you should take a look at what Stanislaw Lem's website has to say: http://www.cyberiad.info/english/kiosk/kiosk.htm#remake. Re-make. Re. Make. Make again. RE-MAKE. That doesn't mean it's not a "new adaptation", but being a "new adaptation" doesn't make it "not [a] remake" unless you live on some planet where "making another film based on the same story as an existing one" is not "remaking". --Brion VIBBER, Thursday, May 23, 2002
:Would you call a new Adaptaion of Hamlet a remake of one of the previous adaptaions? -- Captain Proton 11:11, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Various threads with no title

message: Removed this external link:
http://www.k26.com/solaris/ (1972 version page)
It appears to have gone 404.  Anybody got a newer better version? (couldn't find a new version on a quick Google search).  There is this:
http://entmoot.typepad.com/solaris/from_the_k26_solaris_archives/index.html which appears to indirectly refer to the old site. --Lexor 10:26, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Link

message: You can't put together the Lem's novel and the 2002 movie just because they share the same title.
:The original novel and 2002 movie don't match neither in quality, atmosphere, consistency, problems they work on, nor the influence they impose in their fields. Arguably, the movie had its own goals and had just stolen from the book what it liked or needed. In 2 years nobody will even remember the movie.
i think there should be three articles, one for the novel and one for each movie. if you think theres not enough content, add a stub message. anyone really interested in, say, the 1972 movie has to to look up the pages for the novel and the remake, but they also have to go to the pages for lem, tarkovsky, stalker, andrei rublev, 2001, etc. as well as (if they havent already) pages on sci-fi and russian cinema in general.
Nateji77 03:59, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: "Movie" is American slang, why can't we use "film" which is proper English?
*Film sounds too "european" :) haha
*I don't know whether or not it is used in the UK, but in the US "movie" is definetly not slang, notice that the word "slang" is not found on the Wikitionary entry for movie. Although I have no problem with it being moved to "film". --Wulf 01:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Movie"

message: This really doesn't belong on Wikipedia at all, does it?  Whose critical thoughts are these?  The essay should be posted on some other website, and the author can place an external link within the Solaris article. Zerologic 03:37, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. Deleted. mikka (t) 03:43, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Critical Essay"

message: There is an interview with Stanislaw Lem on the Criterion DVD release of Tarkovsky's film.  In it, his frustration with Tarkovsky's apparent failure to understand his novel is made very clear.  Whatever the merits of Tarkovsky vs. Soderbergh in terms of the films themselves, there is no denying that Tarkovsky completely ignored some of the major themes of Lem's novel.  Tarkovsky leaned toward the mystical, whereas Lem's book is philosophical but not mystical.  Soderbergh's film is a better interpretation of the novel, although it might be a lesser work of art when considered purely as film.  This is more than just my opinion, but nevertheless, I'm putting it here until I feel up to documenting the comments made by Lem in the interview. Slowmover 22:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lem's opinion of Tarkovsky's version

message: "Was Andrei Tarkovsky in touch with you as he was producing the film "Solaris"? What is your opinion about the films by Andrei Tarkovsky and Steven Soderbergh? Do you agree with the changes which the directors made in your stories?
Tarkovsky was crazy about the idea of filming "Solaris"... During those times  he was told by a number of high-ranking members of the Soviet Communist Party that one should not film this book, because this work is ideologically flawed: idealistic, subjective and metaphysical. However he would not listen to them because Tarkovsky was entirely made up of this idealistic-metaphysical stuff mixed with a "Russian soul" - hence he was not a good addressee of such warnings. I have serious reservations regarding his film adaptation. Firstly, I would  like to see the planet Solaris. Secondly, during one of our arguments I told Tarkovsky that he never made "Solaris" - but "Crime and Punishment" instead. From this film we gather that this horrible Kelvin-guy lead poor Harey to suicide and later had some remorse about it - while the latter was strengthened by her reappearance in strange and incomprehensible circumstances.  What was just awful, was the introduction of Kelvin's parents and an aunt. But his mother was the worst, since this was the Russian mat', i.e. Rodina - the Mother Earth. This really angered me a lot. At that point we were like two horses dragging the same cart in different directions. Peoples' lives, that we get to know at the station, are no existentialist anecdotes, but grand questions concerning the place of humans in the Cosmos! My Kelvin decides to stay at the planet without any hope, while Tarkovsky created a vision with some island and a hut. I am quite irritated by this image... I cannot stand the "emotional gravy" in which Tarkovsky submerged my heroes, not to mention the fact that he entirely removed the scientific landscape of the planet and replaced it by a number of eccentricities.  I can tell you very little about Soderberghs' remake. I hear that critics perceive it as derived from Tarkovsky. From the financial point of view this movie certainly was a spectacular fiasco."  from a 2004 interview with Lem. -- noosphere 05:30, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lem on the film adaptations of Solaris

message: The article says The film ends with Kelvin in a sense returning back to Earth, although viewers are divided on whether he goes to a simulation of one part of Earth on the planet Solaris (as the zooming-out at the very end, showing a small piece of land floating in a large ocean, seems to suggest), whether he actually goes back to Earth, or whether he somehow stays on the space station.
Is there actually disagreement about this? Long before the camera had zoomed out I speculated that he was on Solaris. They gave a pretty obvious hint a little bit earlier when Snout was saying that islands had begun to form on the surface. Kelvin starts talking about how he's waiting for a miracle, and Snout says that maybe he should return to Earth. Then Kelvin flashes him a grin back and says "Is that your opinion?" Since the islands were being created from the most important memories of the crew, it didn't seem all that shocking to me that there would be one representing that part of his imagination. Even if it hadn't zoomed out I'd have thought it was pretty clear what happened. Once it did it seemed pretty explicit. The waters on Solaris don't look like Earth oceans, so it's not like it left much for interpretation. Can we just say what happened, or are there people who seriously argue other interpretations? Sarge Baldy 00:37, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Read this IMDB thread.  I will never understand it, but there are people who think that he went back to Earth in the end.  It would be inaccurate not to mention that people disagree about the ending (although I would argue that it is because they don't pay attention - regardless, there is disagreement). Esn 06:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, fair enough. Although honestly I just think that's people digging for some deeper meaning in a very clear-cut ending. Someone in that thread commented on how it was raining inside the house, saying it was due to Solaris misinterpreting Kelvin's thoughts. Which is yet another hint. You think to the extent Tarkovsky hammered his point in, people would have just accepted it. I think it might be a good idea to expand upon the debate more. It'd be interesting to see if there's an interview with Tarkovsky that gives more of his insights into it. Sarge Baldy 06:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That person was actually me, under my other nickname.  I too think that it was quite obvious when you analyze all of the clues.  However, there are always people who just do not see the reasoning and insist upon a different interpretation.  We've all met them, and their objections must be noted as well.  If they insist that the zooming-out at the end which shows that our main character is on an island was not meant to be taken literally but was just a metaphor... fine, fine.  We have to mention that too.  However, perhaps we should also mention how the book ends, and which one of these interpretations is more likely. Esn 03:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are more clues they pointed out to us in film school: In the end, his 'father' has no problem with it that he's touching the hot stove and boiling pot with bare hands or have steaming hot water drip on him from the ceiling. That alone gives away a lot already, and then of course there's the panning out where we see that Kelvin is really on one of the newly-formed islands on Solaris. --2003:71:4F76:836:E846:992C:14E6:9380 (talk) 16:48, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Disagreement about ending?

message: A "black and white films" category has been added to the article, but I've a feeling the film is in colour.  I certainly remember it that way (but saw it 15 years ago, so amn't entirely sure), and the IMDB suggests that it's black and white / colour.  Can anyone who's seen it more recently clarify?  Cheers, --Plumbago 08:18, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Like most of Tarkovsky's films, there are portions in black and white (e.g. the very long "city of the future" car drive sequence), which is enough to warrant inclusion in the category. Staecker 12:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Much of the film is in colour, but a quite surprisingly large amount of it (maybe even more than half) is in black and white.  It is funny how selective our memory can be sometimes. Esn 07:19, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Black and white?

message: It's obvious that the car sequence was filmed in Japan. You can clearly see Japanese plastered on buildings throughout the sequence and on the road. I often wonder howthe Soviets got away with shooting the sequence, and also putting it in when its obvious that the language present is neither Russian nor some sort of futuristic script. SiberioS 22:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Filming in Japan

message: :Image:Solaris ITA.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Solaris ITA.jpg

message: :Image:Solaris 1972 DVD.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Solaris 1972 DVD.jpg

message: There are in fact three film adaptations of Solaris - the third, or, actually, the first, being a close to the book made-for-TV movie. [Yes, I've seen it]. It's not widely known, but deserves a mention. I just didn't find a good source, but to keep in mind if you can. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 20:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Third film adaptation

message: After some copy editing, here is what I have to say:
*:Image:Natalya bondarchuk-solaris.jpg needs more thorough rationale.
*The paragraph beginning with "In the book, Lem describes the inability of human science to properly handle a truly alien life form that is beyond human understanding," needs citations, as it is currently without references.
*:Image:Solaris 1972 DVD.jpg needs a better rationale, as a major part of it (the "source" section) is missing.
*A standard citation method is needed—sometimes the author's last name is first, sometimes it is second, and page ranges should use en dashes, not hyphens.
Tell me on my talk page when you are finished. Kakofonous (talk) 18:05, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: GA on hold comments

message: I am glad to report that this article nomination for good article status has been promoted. This is how the article, as of February 24, 2008, compares against the  six good article criteria:
:1. Well written?: Plot summary, in particular, was engaging to read.
:2. Factually accurate?: Refs a bit thin.
:3. Broad in coverage?: Definitely.
:4. Neutral point of view?: Pass
:5. Article stability? Yes.
:6. Images?: Great screenshots.
  If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to Good article reassessment. Thank you to all of the editors who worked hard to bring it to this status, and congratulations.</div>— Kakofonous (talk) 00:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a ref for the Cannes info. Lugnuts (talk) 19:44, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Successful [[Wikipedia:Good articles|good article]] nomination

message: I'm not able to find the details of the Landscape with the Fall of Icarus depicted in the film. Could someone specify when it was shown in the film? Thanks. Twisp (talk) 12:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Landscape with the Fall of Icarus 

message: In both novel & movie, the "station" hovers a few hundred feet above the ocean surface... So technically, it is not really a "space station" as it is not in outer space.... 17:46, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  They don't say how it got to Solaris, so it's a possibility that it had to travel trough space. Also, I just watched the film and I was not under the impression that it was "a few hundred feet" above the planet. 75.95.47.110 (talk) 20:35, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Nitpicking

message: When the film first appeared, I had a very hard job tracking down the Bach organ work. There was no BWV number given on the subtitled credits. Instead, just a reference (which remains on the DVD version) to "the chorale prelude in F minor". I spent months searching for an F minor chorale prelude which matched my recollection of the theme without success. (Remember, no video or DVD in 1972: cinema screening only). I only came across BWV639 by chance. (Remember, no internet back in 1972). In all my scores, BWV639 is written in C minor, not F minor - three flats, rather than four. Was this a simple subtitle error? Was the film version transposed into F minor (even my cloth ears ought to be able to detect that)? Is there some controversy over the original key of BWV639? I spent so long on this quest that any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated. PDAWSON3 (talk) 02:53, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: BWV639

message: A cleanup page has been created for WP:FILMS' spotlight articles. One element that is being checked in ensuring the quality of the articles is the non-free images. Currently, one or more non-free images being used in this article are under discussion to determine if they should be removed from the article for not complying with non-free and fair use requirements. Please comment at the corresponding section within the image cleanup listing. Before contributing the discussion, please first read WP:FILMNFI concerning non-free images. Ideally the discussions pertaining to the spotlight articles will be concluded by the end of June, so please comment soon to ensure there is clear consensus. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 05:17, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion pertaining to non-free image(s) used in article

message: Technically, as a lot of auteurs express themselves and opinions through their films their films are considered their art. However, if you are going to source something as art house while only going into sources discussing the film's artistic merits, then you can not just add that within the article per WP:RS. Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:35, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Art vs. art house

message: The name of Dr. Knaut's wife is Harey, not Hari. In Soderberg's version the name has been changed to Rheya which is close to anagram but makes no sense at all with Hari.Korina (talk) 22:32, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean Kelvin's wife? In Russian it is Хари, which transliterates pretty directly as Hari or Khari. I guess it is spelled Harey in Polish? But this is a Russian film so it makes sense to use the Russian name. Googling for "solaris hari" and "solaris harey" suggests that Hari is much more commonly used for this character. English subtitles / cast listings I've seen have always spelled it Hari. Seems like "Hari" is (almost?) always used when discussing this film, while "Harey" is sometimes used when discussing the new English translation of the novel. (The bogus older english translation used "Rheya", so that was used even before Soderberg.) Can you find any good source about the movie (not the book) listing the character name as Harey? Staecker (talk) 02:38, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hari,  Harey ? 

message: There exists an English dub of the film that is available as an option on the Criterion release that was obviously made for the truncated 1976 US release. I think the fact that the dub exists is relevant to the film (I mean, how many non-English live-action films have been dubbed into English, after all?) and especially its English Wikipedia article. It would also be noteworthy to list the dubbing cast. One notworthy flaw, though, is that the dub translates Hari's name as "Carrie". In my humble opinion (as that of someone living in a European country where all foreign films are professionally dubbed, and where "Solaris" even received two different dubs in my language due to the Cold War), the voice acting of the English dub for the film is a bit wooden, except for the voice actors of Snaut and maybe Hari/"Carrie". The casting department also didn't seem to bother much about casting voices that are much distinguishable from each other as a form of characterization.
On a level of audio technology or fidelity, the dub is as top notch as any professional German dub, and in fact, on the Criterion release, the sound, FX, and music on the English dub are even cleaner than the sound of the original Russian version. Also, on the 5.1 Russian-language mix, the sound FX are in stereo or surround whereas the music is in mono, while on the English dub, even all the music is in stereo as well. Up until today, no Russian or any other language dub version of the film has the music in stereo, only the English dub on the Criterion release does, while it's still the very same recordings as in the original. --2003:EF:170B:F542:8D96:B08D:78:627 (talk) 07:14, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  English dub 

message: Title. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 03:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Berton or Burton?