Talk:Quarters (game)

message: I added a description of chandeliers, as I learned it in high school and college.  I never heard it referred to by other names and there is obviously potental for local variations. I didn't necessarily want to mention the "foul play" section, but I don't think I played a game without one or both of these occurring.  Ratbert42 04:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chandeliers

message: This sounds bogus. --Viriditas 12:42, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Attempts have recently been made, and the information cannot be verified past the two websites you created to host the content.  Wikipedia has a strict policy against original research.  Please also read WP:V. --Viriditas 09:17, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Great!  Can you list the "when, where and by whom" here? That way we can determine if it is notable or not.  It is important to answer these questions in regards to WP:V.  This is good news. --Viriditas 10:11, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Sorry, but content must be based on verifiable sources. --Viriditas 11:23, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

text: How do you know it was created and popularized in Virginia? --Viriditas 10:11, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW, the 3rd party (not my own) website that has the rules is http://www.newanda.net/documents/Quarters.pdf Haizum 10:35, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and there are no sources listed.  I also noticed that you added the users sig to this page while logged in as "Haizum".  --Viriditas 11:23, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Speed quarters is sourced in the reference section. "Virginia Quarters" is a game invented by you and your "friend".  I'm sorry, but we don't include original research on Wikipedia. --Viriditas 02:02, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Virginia Quarters

message: The rules were compiled and generally accepted in the Charlottesville area. It then spread to the University of Virginia, a large university in the heart of Charlottesville, because many of the original players went on to college there. I was one of the original players, and I, with a handfull of other players compiled the generally accepted rules of the game, and gave it a specific name. If we had merely called it "quarters", then it would be easy to say that we took the rules from a different game and gave it a generic name. So, if you find something that contains those very same rules, it will either be under a common title, or it will be called Virginia Quarters. A common title would be indicative of someone knowing the rules but not knowing the actual name of the game. 
Regardless of the fact that I know when and where the game originated, the appropriate way to treat it is as if it was a trademark or patent. I was part of the team that was FIRST to give the variation a specific name, and FIRST to compile the rules into text. All of the other variations in the article have shared rules, shared names, and no clear origination. If anything, they are less legitimate than Virginia Quarters.
Haizum 10:29, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this is original research. Please review WP:NOT. --Viriditas 02:03, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Re:

message: Viriditas said: "the two websites you created to host the content."
No, I only recently created one website to host the content. The other website, which is linked above, is not mine.
Haizum 11:08, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Any particular reason you added the site owners sig to this page while logged in as Haizum?   Please review WP:SOCK. --Viriditas 11:25, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Sorry, but we can't include original research on Wikipedia. --Viriditas 02:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: False

message: Using the same standards of citation and verification applied to the proposed Virginia Quarters article, I have removed the Speed Quarters article for the following reasons.
1. The web links for Speed Quarters lead to unverified private websites that allow anonymous posting of quarters rules; there is no identical set of rules and neither website is operated by a public, educational, or governmental entity. The veracity and neutrality of the websites cannot be verified.
2. There is no direct quotation taken from the books that are cited that would indicate the presence of Speed Quarters within; the reference has not been verified.
Haizum 12:31, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Speed quarters is referenced in the reference section. --Viriditas 02:05, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit

message: I wrote the official rulebook because I was an integral part of creating the game. It has been up on my server for over a year now, and when I left UVa, I can proudly say that it and several similar varriations had were integral parts of the frat and off-campus scene. The rulebook contains certain modifications and updated lingo that was not always associated with it, but when writing the rulebook I decided it best to write the commonly known rules of what has become Virginia Quarters.
At UVA of course, this is only known as Quarters, but Virginia Quarters seemed a fitting name to distinguish it from the standard variation.  If you really have nothing better to do, feel free to scour the internet for "verifiable sources" but please keep in mind that this is a drinking game, and you will not find to many cited sources on the matter.  This game has become a part of the VA and mid-atlantic college drinking scene, but if you want to keep it off wiki, I'm not stopping you.  I made sure the rules were accessible again on my server.
I'll check back in a few weeks to see if you're still grumbling over VA quarters.  And keep those wikipedia policy statements flowing (WP:NOR, WP:CIV, WP:SOC, etc), I find both them and your dedication to this fascinating.  If you want my opinion, instead of fighting over whether my drinking game has a proper Works Cited page, download my rules, get some friends together, and play it. I guarantee it will be a better use of your time.
Oh, and the last edit (68.80.190.25) was mine, sorry but I forgot to sign in.
:Wikipedia has a strict policy against original research.  Please remove your addition to the article. --Viriditas 01:51, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Waaay too much time 

message: Your addition of "Speed quarters" to Quarters is original research, and the external link you've provided seems to belong to you and a meatpuppet. -Viriditas
You just admitted that "Speed Quarters" is original research, yet you refuse to delete it.
Haizum 01:52, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, as this was already pointed out to you, it was a mistake.  I meant to write "Virginia Quarters".  Why you decided to repost this after I made this correction on your talk page, is strange. --Viriditas 01:55, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Yet another example of abuse

message: Since you are evasive, and refuse to address the questions asked of you on my talk page, please refrain from using it.
Haizum 02:10, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've answered every question you've asked me pertaining to this discussion.  It would be to your credit to study Wikipedia:Talk pages so you don't make the same mistakes in the future. You spammed my talk page with the same comments, over and over again.  Please don't do that to me or any other users. --Viriditas 02:20, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Re:

message: I see i walked into a revert war on this page. I did some research and it is apparent that virginia quarters is original research. A quick google search shows that speed quarters and standard quarters are well cited in mutliple locations. The only citation to virginia quarters is your own pdf, wikipedia and two other pages that have scraped information from wikipedia.
"speed quarters" drinking game
901 hits
"standard quarters" drinking game 
322 hits
"virginia quarters" drinking game 
77 hits (although this number is inflated since it hits references to the coin). The third hit is for an obit of Virginia Quarters, who was the first person to undergo experimental bone marrow transplant surgery as a treatment for lupus, died Thursday (Dec. 20, 2001).
Viriditas  is correct to delete this section. There is no way to verify this game exists. David D. (Talk) 02:25, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: When you exclude wikipedia mirrors, you are left with only two websites that host information pertaining to "Virginia Quarters", and they are both run by the two editors on this page,  and , both of whom appear to be friends in RL. --Viriditas 02:30, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

text: My comments stand.  --Viriditas 02:35, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: revert war

message: The only citation to virginia quarters is your own pdf, wikipedia and two other pages that have scraped information from wikipedia.
No! That is the lie that Viriditas has been propagating all this time. That is not my page. Is is a page that is just as reputable as the others.
If you actually did your research, which you clearly didn't, you would see that the citiations for Speed Quarters are public posts that have nothing to do with the website owners. In addition to that, those websites are not educational or governmental entities. ANYONE could have posted those quarters rules.
Haizum 02:29, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Speed quarters is already referenced.  "Virginia Quarters" is only referenced by the two editors partipating on this page, you and Newanda, and in one instance, you signed Newanda's sig on the talk page,  making me wonder if the two of you are the same user. --Viriditas 02:33, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Please, Haizum, stop this.  --Viriditas 02:37, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

text: So, you're claiming you're an authorized sock puppet? --Viriditas 02:58, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: FALSE

message: From Wikipedia:
Google's central PageRank system has been criticized. Some, such as Daniel Brandt, calling it "undemocratic". Common arguments are that the system is unfairly biased towards large web sites, and that the criteria for a page's importance are not subject to peer review. It must be stated in Google's defense that PageRank is a fully automated system which is impartial insofar as it knows no personal bias. However, it must also be stated that Google's system relies on human oversight, and use of company names on Adwords, or deletion of critical sites from Google results (for example, sites critical of Scientology), is decided by individual human beings according to company policy. It remains unclear whether any process could assert the importance of a page in a way that would draw less criticism than the current PageRank system.
The system is also susceptible to manipulation and fraud through the use of dummy sites, an issue which does, however, plague all search engines.
It is not acceptable that you use Google search results to judge the veracity of an article. Haizum 02:42, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: All i did was to use google to show that virginia quaters is unverfiable.  Obviously those numbers of hits have little meaning.  The fact that 73 of the hits for virginia quarters had nothing to do with the game you describe should make you aware of that. In fact, the text you have pasted above is the very argument against allowing virginia quarters into wikipedia.  There is one site known that mentions it (probably you own site). That is NOT verifiable. David D. (Talk) 02:48, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

text: This discussion is about Quarters, not other articles. --Viriditas 03:07, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is also a discussion about your skewed policy views, your double standards, and your axe to grind. Haizum 03:11, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means, continue.  You were saying? --Viriditas 03:25, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Google

message: Let me do a little more checking to try to convince myself that this is just a vanity term.
If it is a vanity term, then you should be able to find the same rules under a different name. If you can't, then it is its own variation in itself. Haizum 03:03, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have found essentially the same rules - as I mentioned, I am unable to see any major difference between this and a generic quarters game. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 03:06, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Where? I demand a citation. Haizum 03:09, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You've had enough time, where is this citation that you claim exists? Haizum 03:12, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Re:

message: I removed this section entirely. When I came across this article in late May, I went through and fixed lots of typos and other such things, and added cleanup and tone tags. It was straight afterwards that I realised that the whole article needed rewriting. However, since then there had only been additions to the section, making it even larger, and with little quality to the additions (nor references, nor assertions of notability).
So I figured that if I were to just remove the whole section, it might actually improve the article. Feel free to revert me and discuss here if anyone thought I was wrong to do so. --Dreaded Walrus  t c 04:52, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree, and I thinking about doing the same thing a while back. hmwithtalk 15:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The only notable variation of which I know is Chandeliers, but I'll try to find some sources on it. If not, it'll remain deleted. hmwithtalk 15:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Since Chandeliers has it's own article, I just added it to "See also". hmwithtalk 15:54, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common Variations 

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thread_title:  External links modified