Talk:Anne Dieu-le-Veut

message: I'm not sure about the definition given for her name:
Her name means "Anne Gods wants"; as she had a will so strong, that if she wanted something, it was as if God wanted it.
A French customs was to give a name like Dieu-le-veut or De-par-Dieu to orphans of unknown parents.
Then we can explain it as the following, if nobody wants/reclaims this child then God will.
Of course the name will be kept among the descendants following the same rules than any other French names.
I understand your point. But it is not known if she was an orphant; she could have ben, of course, but it seems she was deported as a criminall, and not exclusively sent as a wife, as ordinary orphaned girls sometimes was. According to the stories told about her, it seems her last name was ment as a nickname referring to her personality. But it does'nt exlude anything of course; both explanations could very well be true!--Aciram 13:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Meaning of Dieu-le-Veut

message: I question the validity of the majority of this article.  One of the external links listed is to an article influenced, if not written by, Ken Kinkor who is responsible for the theory that De Graff was mulatto - which is unfortunately not true.  Also, a good portion dedicated to Marie's involvement in De Graff's piracy is highly improbable.  Marie and De Graff were married in 1693, verifiable through church documents and the historian Vaissiere's history of the island.  By the time they were married, De Graff was already an officer in the French Navy and later, once de-commissioned, served as a Spanish translator for a French explorer (i.e. no longer a pirate).  The qualifications for his Knighthood late in the 1690's were Catholocism and service in the French Military for a minimum of ten years, evidence that he had given up Privateering by the end of the 1680's.  If Marie and her pirates had been taken captive by the Spanish for piracy she would have been hung after being found guilty, but that she was returned to French soil suggests she was a prisoner of war - and in fact the historian Crouse says De Graff's plantation was raided late in the 1690's when she and her daughter were taken captive.  Since DeGraff was court martialled as a spy against France for the Netherlands, it is most unlikely that his wife would have received a royal pardon from piracy regardless of her fame.  Finally, there are no sources cited and if these tales of Marie are recorded I have never come across anything like them.
They are so many contradictionary things about Anne (or Marie) from so many sources, and i would be very happy if i could get ahold of more information about her! I have no duobt that many of the stories of her, expecially regarding her acts piracy, was exaggerated and even compleatly untrue, as is also the case with Laurens de Graff and most pirates in history - though it would be strange that she is regarded as one of few female pirates in history, if she was never inwalved in piracy in any way at all whatsoever; being a woman, she could have ben regarded a pirate for sensationall reasons by merely acompaning her husband on his ship - (which it seems she did, as she was regarded the ships Goodluck charm)- but because of her sex, it would be strange if she was talked about as a pirate with no background at all, as this was hardly anything one would expect from a woman. If they married in 1693, (which would have made Laurens a bigamist if his first wife was still alive, which he could have ben of course) it does not prevent the fact that they could have known each other and had a relationship for then years before they where married, which is not at all improbable; this, of course, means she could have ben a part of his life when he was still a pirate, if he indeed stopped being one before 1693. This is not a discussion of Laurens de Graff, but he could very well have recieved Knigthood even if he was still a "pirate"; he could in fact have ben a privateer, not a pirate, which is not the same thing; they have ben occations when privateers was considered as a part of the military personel. Regarding her pardon from Spanish captivity; as is stated in the article, we dont know it this really happened, nor under which surcumstances, but there are many ways to explain it, though it could be only speculations; first, we dont know when it happened, but if it truly happened in 1705 or thereabout, it was after Laurens de Graff hade ben freed from the charges of spying and regained French appreciation. Anne Marie, though she took up arms and led the pirates on this occation, might not have ben considered the real leader of the pirates, if she did so after the formal captain fell in battle, and the Spanish might then have considered her as merely an insignificant woman, suitable to return to the French as a gesture. Finally; as the sources about her, as well as for most pirates, are not entirely reliable, we must se them as the legends they are.
Yes, Laurens was a Privateer for the majority of his civilian career in the Caribbean.  His commissions always came from the French, but a privateer had the ability to come and go, whereas military personnell had to take the job assigned to them and were distinctly differentiated from privateers.  The great wreck on Las Aves of Comte d'Estree's fleet, 1679, is a perfect example.  The French, especially, were careful not to include privateers in their military so that they could claim to the Spanish and Dutch that these privateers were acting of their own free will and accord, thereby making it easier to "keep the peace" between the nations while still enjoying the benefits of their labors.  His Knighthood, therefor, is defined as commissioned military service and not commissioned privateer work.  As for bigamy, he filed for divorce in 1687, six years before his marriage to Marie.  This should be, however, a discussion of both "pirates" since their lives are intertwined, and without DeGraff no one would have known about Marie.  Regardless of whether she was female or captain, if the Spanish captured her under the pretense that she was a pirate at all she would have been hanged (this was the fate of many, many privateers and pirates)- and surely if "Lorencillo" had been killed in battle by the Spanish there would have been a great Hizzah! over his death as he had been a mighty burden to them for decades.  Evidence to this is his later career as a translator, when coming into a Spanish port, the French exploration ships were denied entrance once they found that he was on board.  I think that the story of her capture on board a pirate ship is being confused with her earlier abduction during wartime between France and Spain, which would make her return to French soil much more plausible. (I have further evidence to this, but can not release the information yet due to copyright and publishment infringements).  As there is yet no documentation siting the legend, the entire event is highly improbable, and again I have never come across anything like this - internet or otherwise.  If you can site your sources for the legends, I would appreciate it as it is an exciting story.
I got the legend from an internet-page, where it was sited along with other such stories, but im afraid i didnt save it! I which i did. Im not going to argue so much about that; i myself never saw it as fact, (especially the part of Laurens death, which is also stated in the article) just as a legend, which is why i called it a legend in the article, and i included it merely because i thought it sounded exciting. Perhaps it was a mixup with the other occasion when she was a captive, who can tell? If i find the page again, i will site it! This is the great benefit with wikipedia; if anyone know more about it, that person can include it and site it, and if someone knows for a fact that it is not true, they can erase it! Privateers was of course never officially a part of the military personal, but unofficially they where, and many of them who where made noblemen, espesially in Saint Malo in Brittany in France, did not end their career as privateers because of it. As far as speculation goes; Laurens and Marie could still have known each other many years before they where married, couldn't they? And divorce was not allowed in those days (though he could have gotten one by speciall circumstances, and perhaps you no more about this matter). And, even if it is hard for modern people, we must still remember, that in those days, women where simply not taken seriously, and she could therefore still have ben ignored by the Spanish in that theoreticall situation. As i said before; her acts of piracy could very well be exaggerations, but it would be very strange if she was never inwalved in any such actions at all, judging by her reputation, would it not? I hope this article will be edited by someone who knows for sure what is true and what isnt! Just as with Jacquotte Delahaye; i dont even know any legends about her, and i'm not able to write anythting in it at all, so i hope someone else will!
:I didn't do an at-all exhaustive search, but there appears to be a distinct scarcity of sources on the internet. 216.185.29.69 (talk) 16:05, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Sources 

message: There is no evidence that any women deported to the Caribbean from France were ever referred to as Fille du Roi; that is a term coined by historians long after the fact strictly applying to those women who were recruited to help colonize French Canada.  --  Couillaud (talk) 21:25, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deportation 

message: woaw, this page has been trolled and no one noticed it, people even said Anne was created by trump or that she was a manga character. why doesn't mods do their jobs ?
Aydnie (talk) 14:04, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trolling