Talk:Jitte

message: As I understand, this weapon played a key role in the hunting down of bandit ronin.  If anyone knows more about this storyline and the role this weapon played, I'd appreciate learning. -- Sy / (talk)
:Well, if it was a common law enforcement weapon, and law enforcement officers frequently hunted bandits, then naturally it would frequently end up being employed against bandit ronin. -Toptomcat 22:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bandit ronin hunting

message: The article puts the meaning of the name as "十手; the power of ten hands weapon".  Is there a source on that?  It seems like an over interpretation of the kanji.  I was under the impression that it had more to do with the shape of the jitte.
:I can't find anything to suggest that this is a correct etymology. Also, it has the name 実手 according to the Japanese article. --DannyWilde 07:35, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "Ju" means ten, "Te" means hand or hands. A1ecks
----
As far as I know, the jutte originally had a cross shape, so "jutte" would mean "ten (in the) hand".
I have no valid sources for this. It might give a hinch though
Kennin 17:11, 22 May 2008 (CET)
----
Why is it sometimes referred to as "jitte", when it is a composition of "jū" and "te"?
Jutte I understand, due to the old age of the word. Jitte on the other hand does not make sense.
Kennin 17:15, 22 May 2008 (CET)
----
The article also later states "it resembled its name of "ten hands", having that many prongs," so the article itself is internally inconsistent on what the etymology is.
As I'm sure many of you know, Japanese the character for ten (十 juu) is a plus-sign shape, and it refers to many shapes of two lines meeting at perpendicular angles. Take the Japanese word for "cross," "十文字 juumonji," which literally means "the character juu (ten)" but often refers to the shape. This seems like the mostly likely etymology to me. Either way, there really needs to be a source.
As for "jitte", the character for ten (juu) is (according to what is taught in elementary schools) actually supposed to be read "ji" in many kanji combinations, but modern usage now allows "juu" as well. Take for example "jitten" for "ten points," even though "juuten" is equally intelligible and in use. Many older people will still use the "ji" reading in kanji combinations.
Also, I'm not sure if we should make a huge effort to try and literally translate the "ten" and the "hand" from the name. A mention of how it references the shape is probably enough. 
-Karl  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.23.60.64 (talk) 00:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: In the Robert Jordan "wheel of time" series, there's a weapon carried by a law enforcement official called a "sword-breaker". Is this (which I haven't encountered elsewhere in fiction) perhaps modeled upon the jitte? --Alvestrand 00:41, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See also Katar, also a sword-breaker.--Ketin Porta 13:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sword-breaker? 

message: as taught in the bujinkan system, specifically takagi yoshin ryu, the jutte was used to arrest the blade and control its motion, possibly twist it out of the hands of the weilder.
while is is concievable two weapons could break a sword, one alon would yeild a situation that would probly be safest to catch the blade, run the jutte to the tsuba (hilt) and control the attackers arms to disarm them and control thier body movement.
- At my dojo (also bujinkan), we were told that the jitte's tyne is *not* there to break or catch swords specifically -- although it could be used for that purpose -- it's there just as much (or perhaps more) to trap the fingers, to press into pressure points like the clavicle, sternum or wrist, and to hook into clothing. Harry Metcalfe 18:34, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The tine serves a number of purposes in Juttejutsu. While it can be used to catch swords, the proximity of the hand makes it quite unsafe to catch on the blade side as the sword strikes in. Rather, it was more often the case that one would evade the sword and trap the back of the blade, thereby retaining a stronger position. Other uses would include trapping the wrist at a draw, or trapping extremities, pressing into joints, pressure points, or hooking openings (mouth, nose, etc.). For information regarding Jutte use, I'd suggest looking for information on Edo Machikata-ryu Juttejutsu.Stslavik 18:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I've updated this section based on the comments here. Harry Metcalfe (talk) 22:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it needs to be reworded to be closer to Stslavik's original phrasing.  As it is now, it essentially says that "it's false the it was used to catch a blade, but was instead used to catch a blade."  It's all in the details; Stslavik meant that it wasn't used to catch the edge of the blade, but rather the unsharpened back and thereby control the blade or the blade-wielder's arm or arms. 71.200.140.35 (talk) 11:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  jutte not neccessarily a sword breaker 

message: How do you pronounce it, anyone?
: Ji (Jea as in blue JEAns) tte (te as in TEchnology) Japanese pronunciation of vowels is largely (a)ah, (e)eh, (i)ee, (o)oh, (u)oo  
:Also, Japanese syllables should be pronounced for an equal length of time per syllable.  In the case of a double-t like in Jitte, the doubling indicates a space of a syllable inbetween the two.  じって　the character in the middle indicates this space of silence. 24.48.159.136 23:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: I removed the stub tag. I think the article contains too much information to qualify as such. Sven Lotz 09:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stub 

message: I'm 95% sure that jitte are typically blunt, but the article is somewhat vague on that point.  Do edged examples exist? -Toptomcat 22:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they do, either having the hooks or the main bar being sharpened. --Hatsukanezumini 21:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are some versions that have a blunt end, but if it is ever grabbed or trapped in some way, all the user has to do is twist and the hollow blunt end screws off to reveal a dagger. --Ghostexorcist 17:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Blunt or edged?

message: Moved trivia section here per WP:TRIV and WP:WPMA#Trivia and fiction sections. Bradford44 17:27, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And someone has simply gone and re-included the list.  This is still trivia folks, and still a violation of WP:TRIV and WP:WPMA#Trivia and fiction sections. Simply retitling it "In popular culture" does not absolve you of explaining why this data should remain in the article.  As is, it does not improve understanding of the subject, and is simply a list of fancruft appearances of the word in cartoons, games and comic books. I've removed it again, for the same reasons Bradford 44 did eight years ago. 12.233.147.42 (talk) 00:06, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: I added a photo of a Jutte and removed the previous photo, as this is more appropriate. --TorsodogTalk 05:09, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed photo request

message: This article is being mediated here. Due to a lack of responses from other parties, I have advised Samuraiantiqueworld to keep working on the article as seems necessary. If parties object to this, please voice that objection here and do not resort to edit warring or anything like that. Thank you. -- Scjessey (talk) 19:44, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mediation 

message: *1 http://books.google.com/books?id=9SzJAAAACAAJ&dq=jutte&hl=en&ei=t-IPTbXyMoGclgfD6bm7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA
*2 http://books.google.com/books?id=g5BP7DGuNFsC&pg=PA103&dq=jutte&hl=en&ei=t-IPTbXyMoGclgfD6bm7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=jutte&f=false
*3 http://books.google.com/books?id=7NoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA63&dq=jutte&hl=en&ei=t-IPTbXyMoGclgfD6bm7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=jutte&f=false
*4 http://books.google.com/books?id=ZzIXkFec0e8C&pg=PA78&dq=jutte&hl=en&ei=LuMPTczzHIT7lwedlJGyDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=jutte&f=false
*5 http://books.google.com/books?id=ss8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT83&dq=jutte&hl=en&ei=LuMPTczzHIT7lwedlJGyDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEsQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=jutte&f=true
*6 http://books.google.com/books?id=4tsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA110&dq=jutte&hl=en&ei=NuQPTdidGoaglAe_ouWBDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBjge#v=onepage&q=jutte&f=false
*7 http://books.google.com/books?id=ijLwtIeSJKMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=jutte&hl=en&ei=o-QPTZudBYWKlwfolsywDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBjgo#v=onepage&q&f=true
*8 http://books.google.com/books?id=JXfVINMfbx8C&pg=PA199&dq=jutte&hl=en&ei=T-UPTZiUGMP7lwf9pMyJDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAjg8#v=onepage&q=jutte&f=false
*9 http://books.google.com/books?id=YSkQGC4wteAC&pg=PA36&dq=jutte&hl=en&ei=GOYPTYvyNMT7lwfj4_SEDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBjhu#v=onepage&q=jutte&f=false
*10 http://books.google.com/books?id=ZFf9e0DmHZUC&pg=PA312&dq=jitte&hl=en&ei=geYPTeeZCILGlQfepJS3DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=jitte&f=false
*11 http://books.google.com/books?id=sBWasQSsb-UC&pg=PA63&dq=jitte&hl=en&ei=geYPTeeZCILGlQfepJS3DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=jitte&f=false
*12 http://books.google.com/books?id=JAFyAAAAMAAJ&q=jitte&dq=jitte&hl=en&ei=geYPTeeZCILGlQfepJS3DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBw
*13 http://books.google.com/books?id=i0ni1NmbYe0C&pg=PA166&dq=jitte&hl=en&ei=geYPTeeZCILGlQfepJS3DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=jitte&f=false
*14 http://books.google.com/books?id=adIDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA55&dq=jitte&hl=en&ei=geYPTeeZCILGlQfepJS3DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=11&ved=0CF8Q6AEwCg#v=onepage&q=jitte&f=false
*15 http://books.google.com/books?id=bbAb-7yDj5cC&pg=PA269&dq=jitte&hl=en&ei=P-cPTZL0O8H7lweI9ujFDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=jitte&f=false
*16 http://www.samuraiweapons.org/Jutte_Samurai.php
*http://www.e-budokai.com/weapons/jutte2.htm
*17 http://shinseidojo.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/roles-and-techniques-of-the-police-during-the-edo-period-1603-1867-by-dr-kacem-zoughari/
*18 http://books.google.com/books?id=ZzIXkFec0e8C&pg=PA94&dq=tanbo&hl=en&ei=RaMlTeu0D8ys8Ab4tuDqAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=neashi&f=false
*19 http://books.google.com/books?id=wExlaM1ov0sC&pg=PA128&dq=hachiwara&hl=en&ei=TeEmTeyfKsH58Aa84fH6AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=hachiwara&f=true
Samuraiantiqueworld (talk) 23:35, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: References for editors to read

message: The sentence "This law applied to everyone except the shogun's sons and hatamoto, including the palace guards." is almost impossible to parse. Does it mean, the hatamoto (including the palace guards) were excluded? That makes the next part nonsensical, but does seem to be the most obvious reading of the sentence. Instead, I think it means everyone was prohibited except sones and hatamoto, and the prohibition included the palace guards. Perhaps it should read "This law applied to everyone (except the shogun's sons and hatamoto), including the palace guards." It is still ugly, but it reads more clearly. Or maybe even, for the sake of clarity, drop some of the detail and just write "This law applied to nearly everyone, including the palace guards." We don't really need the specific exclusions here, so this works even better. (By the way, this whole section is word-for-word from the web page cited, which seems a bit like plagiarism. I am going to change this one sentence, but the rest may need to be cleane dup too to avoid unattributed, um, "borrowing" from another source.) 76.111.27.52 (talk) 07:37, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awkward Sentence 

message: This section should be added.
I am no expert so to me for example, a matched pair of iron jutte and two kagi (that is in the picture) looks exactly like sai. Differences between weapons should be discussed in the article. 185.18.60.16 (talk) 20:22, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  v sai