Talk:List of compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

message: * I moved this page from List of compositions by Mozart to get greater uniformity in :Category:Compositions by composer. David Sneek 16:36, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

message: They are listed under both the Concertos and the Sinfonia Concertante sections.  They should be in only one.
What about the many sonatas for violin and piano? (edit: 62.101.234.41)
**See the main page under Chamber music - brief description, no links yet to the two violin sonatas that so far have pages (one of which - for the A major K 526 - I started, so I'm interested to know too :) BTW it's more typical/standard/whathave to add comments, start new sections, at the end of a talk page, which is why I've moved yours there- otherwise it seems as though the people below us are responding to us. Schissel-nonLop! 04:40, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Sinfonia Concertantes

message: The article Musical works of Mozart has had a merge tag on it for a long time.  The vast majority of the material there is a duplicate of that which is here.  Having two almost identical articles strikes me as a very bad idea.  Since I am not an expert in the subject, I have pasted below the material at Musical works of Mozart which is not in this article - everything else there is already here.  Could someone with some knowledge merge it in to this article.  I have then redirected the other one here. Kcordina  Talk  10:15, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from [[Musical works of Mozart]] 

message: If we have a link to a work, should we also have commentary on this page?  Makes sense to put the commentary on the work's page.  This page should be more of a list with commentary only before groups of works.  The late symphonies and opera sections could both be cleaned up quite a bit. DavidRF 04:59, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much duplicate commentary 

message: I fixed the links to the Violin Sonata list that was just added here so that it pointed to two articles that were pre-existing.  Both of those articles have odd titles: "Sonata in A for Violin and Keyboard (1787)" and "Sonata in C for Keyboard and Violin (Mozart)".  It would match other naming conventions if the titles of those articles either had the "index" number or the K-number instead of the key and the year.  The "index" number is normal preferred (see symphonies and concertos) but it has problems with the violin sonatas for two reasons.  First, there are gaps in the sequence which is confusing.  Second, there tends to be a distinction between the very low K-number works of his childhood and the later works (note the huge gap in K-number)...  many "complete" collections of violin sonatas start with K 296.  Anyhow, if someone can come to an agreement on the appropriate titles for these pages, that would be great. DavidRF 15:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Violin Sonatas 

message: There are those who argue that Mozart's early works for violin and harpsichord are not considered as Violin Sonatas because the violin in the these works is subordinate to the harpsichord. Compositionally, the "true" violin sonatas start at K. 296. However, I agree with those who count the early works as Violin Sonatas based on a general understanding that, in the classical era, a sonata is music for an instrument accompanied by either a harpsichord or a fortepiano, except for the harpsichord or fortepiano that is played alone in a sonata. Also, for the benefit of the general users of Wikipedia, who do not really understand these compositional technicalities, simplifying the List of Violin Sonatas by Mozart by counting K.6 as Violin Sonata No. 1 may be a good idea. Truenorth2002 23:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure "Violin Sonata No. 1 (Mozart)" is not very descriptive, but its simple.  If it turns out that pages for these get written then a navigational template with K-numbers and keys can be made (like the ones for Beethoven piano sonatas and string quartets). DavidRF 04:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Violin sonatas 

message: It is stated that the Rondo from Horn Concerto No. 3(K447) "is perhaps the most famous movement from all four horn concertos". It is my opinion that the Rondo in the 4th concerto (K495), is more famous. The Rondo from No. 3 is, however, included in a "The Best of Mozart" album from 1997. Cewlac 21:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My Greatest Hits of Mozart CD only includes from his horn concertos the first movement of his first horn concerto in D.  Famousness could be determined by the number of Googlesearch results for each concerto.  Asmeurer (talk • contribs) 23:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Greatest hits CD's are notorious for either being misinformed, picking the wrong movement from a great work or just picking a work because it had a length that would fit on the CD nicely.  One of the horn concerto finales (I think #3) is famous for sounding like the finale to K482 (piano concerto #22).  When the horn concertos get their own page (or pages), then that type of commentary should disappear.DavidRF 13:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I created one page for the four horn concertos.  They could be split up later if there is more demand.  Commentary from the list page should be moved to that page. DavidRF 17:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Horn Concertos 

message: I noticed the following pieces are missing from the chamber music section:
Piano Trio in B flat, K. 254
Piano Trio in G, K. 496
Piano Trio in B flat, K. 502
Piano Trio in E, K. 542
Piano Trio in C, K. 548
Piano Trio in G, K. 564
Oboe Quartet in F, K. 370
Horn Quintet In E Flat, K. 407
Sonezy 08:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  Thanks.  DavidRF 18:36, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Piano Trios, Oboe Quartet and Horn Quintet

message: Rather than having all of the music clips at the bottom of the page, I think they should be appropriately placed next to the relevant composition.  Any other thoughts?  Reywas92Talk 16:17, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This page is already so long.  I'd vote for only having media clips of pieces that do not already have articles.  Media clips for pieces with an article should go only in that article to save space.  Can there be a category in the commons for collecting all Mozart clips so they don't need to all be listed here? DavidRF (talk) 16:55, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is: :commons:Category:Compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart or its presentation as a Template which you should see there ->.Its presentation if of course rather unappealing, and there is no guarantee that all relevant media are actually properly categorised (I just added a bit over 20 such items to that category – there are probably more). Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:15, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Media 

message: I forked this off as a child article.  In most cases, I'd advocate leaving this list here because its convenient to have everything here.  Especially if the list is only a couple of dozen (e.g. operas or piano concertos).  In this case, the number of short vocal works was just so enormous (25% of the article by itself).  I followed the lead of the List of cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach forked off from the List of compositions by Johann Sebastian Bach. DavidRF (talk) 01:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of concert arias, songs and canons by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart]] 

message: Why is the spurious Violin Concerto no. 7 not mentioned here? I believe it used to be listed as spurious, which it should still. This well-known concerto, recorded by Menuhin, Szeryng, et al. can't be found anywhere, and a user has nowhere to turn. Badagnani (talk) 07:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's K.271a which is listed. Should we add a parenthetical ("No. 7") after it? If so, is K268 the parenthetical ("No. 6")? DavidRF (talk) 15:28, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Added the nickname to K. 271a.DavidRF (talk) 20:55, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Spurious Violin Concerto no. 7

message: I daresay that I agree with 203.97.254.81's correction in the paragraph on piano and violin sonatas, and disagree with Melodia.  The classical piano/violin duo was essentially a piano sonata with violin accompaniment.  Look at Haydn's sonatas, or, for example, the sonatas of Kuhlau, where the violin is accompanying the piano almost throughout.  It was Mozart who gave the violin equality in the piano-violin duo. --Ravpapa (talk) 12:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole section is out of date.  The childhood pieces are not included in the full count of sixteen. (Arguably, maybe they shouldn't, but some clarification as to the count of childhood/mature should be noted).  The childhood pieces should really be grouped into sets with one article per set.  No need for separate article for KV 6, KV 7, KV 8, etc.  For the mature pieces there should be a sentence saying that these are not the violin-centric sonatas of Corelli or Brahms, these are for the most part "sonatas for pianoforte and accompanying violin".  *Then* the note where as Mozart got older, the violin parts of his violin sonatas became more independent and less accompanying makes sense.  Also, I think for the articles on the mature sonatas, we should consider abandoning the numbers and going strictly with Köchel (e.g. Violin Sonata, K. 301 (Mozart)).  Just for this genre.  I know that several other genres use the ordinal numbers less that the Kochel numbers, but for VS's, I don't think I've ever seen use of the ordinal numbers at all.  There doesn't seem to be a rush to create all those articles, though, so no rush, but thought I would toss in my two cents as long as it we were discussing it.DavidRF (talk) 18:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The Chwialkowski book of many composers catalogs number them all, except the spurious ones from K 55 to K 61, and including three fragments (K 382e, c, and d or 402, 403, and 404). This is the same numbering used in the article now, though for some reason old-number 403 and 404 aren't listed here. What's really odd is that it mentions cello "ad lib" for K 10 to K 15. Here this isn't mentioned, though the Köchel catalogue not only mentions cello (not as optional), but also lists flute as an alternate solo, which my book doesn't do. The Mozart Forum just lists violin or flute. Hmmm... ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 19:13, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who supports whom? 

message: Hogwood's set has this down as D major, rather than F major.  It may be an error, can anyone else confirm?  Thanks.  David T Tokyo (talk) 07:50, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That was a typo.  I've fixed it.  Thanks for pointing it out.DavidRF (talk) 08:45, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: K 81

message: The three Divertimenti K. 136-138 are written for four parts (two violins, viola and cello) but there is uncertainty (on my part anyways) as to whether they were written for string quartet or string orchestra.  Anecdotally, I see them recorded much more often for string orchestra, often given the nicknames "Salzburg Symphonies Nos. 1-3", but there are a few string quartet performances out there (Hagen, Auryn, Eder, Kocian) as well.  On the other hand there are many complete sets of string quartets that do not include them.  There is a similar issue with Eine Kleine Nachtmusik (five instruments or five parts?).  I can't check my books right now, so I'll check later.  Does anyone else know any details?  Thanks.
:Pretty sure most places I've seen, such as The Compleat Mozart and the Mozart Forum consider them to be chamber works. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 18:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Uwe Krammer in Zaslaw's "Compleat Mozart" thinks they were written as chamber pieces.  Perhaps with double-bass instead of cello.  Sadie in "Mozart, the Early Years" goes back and forth saying they are too short and not serious enough for symphonies, not as refined as the early quartets and distinct in layout from the other divertimenti and serenades.  He cops out and says they should be regarded as sui generis.  Both clearly state that the works are performed frequently and successfully by both quartets and larger ensembles.  I guess that doesn't answer the question.  If these had articles, we could spell out the two performance practices in the text.  Here with just a terse descriptive title, I'm not sure what to put.  I guess if you want to revert my "or string orchestra", you can go ahead.DavidRF (talk) 04:12, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Divertimenti, K. 136-138 - Quartet or String Orchestra? 

message: The piano sonata in Bb KV 570 has an optional violin part, assumed to be by Mozart. Seldomly played, though, because it is not really adding anything except a little imitation here and there. I have so far not been able to determine whether the violin part is authentic. I have added KV570 on the violon-sonata list, though it really is a sonata for piano with accompanying violin (as are some of the other vl.sonatas).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donald j axel (talk • contribs) 13:34, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The NMA is quite firm that the violin accompaniment is not by WAM (http://dme.mozarteum.at/DME/objs/ed/ucb20_197_-17.jpg) and lists it as Piano Sonata Nr. 17. I suggest to remove it from the section Mature violin sonatas (1778–88). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:00, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the link. I did not know how to query revision report in NMA. Removed.
--d-axel (talk) 12:54, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  KV 570 

message: This is a work which is recognised as a collaboration in which Mozart was one of five composers, the other four being Johann Baptist Henneberg, Franz Xaver Gerl, Benedikt Schack and Emmanuel Schikaneder. Someone pointed out that it is not listed in the Köchel catalogue, but nevertheless, it is still a work that Mozart was involved in, even though he may not be the sole composers. Other composers like Vivaldi have operas in which they have only composed a part of listed under their list of compositions. Shouldn't we also list this under Mozart's compositions? Considering that the autograph manuscript with the autographs of Mozart and the other four composers was lost and only rediscovered in 1996, it is not surprising that it is not in the Köchel catalogue. - The dog2 (talk) 14:37, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well you'd need a reliable source for that, if it's not in the catalog. Are saying Mozart actually wrote music, as opposed to someone else taking his music and using it? ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 16:41, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

text: As far as the Köchel Catalogue and the Neue Mozart-Ausgabe (NMA) know, WAM wrote one piece for that pasticcio, the duet for soprano and bass "Nun, liebes Weibchen, ziehst mit mir", K. 625/592a. That does not warrant an entry for Der Stein der Weisen in the list of Mozart's operas. Given that the NMA doesn't publish the duet online or in its regular volumes but in Serie X: Supplement 28, sections 3–5/2 titled "Arrangements and completions (or supplementing) of works by various composers" (NMA X/28/Abt. 3–5/2: Bearbeitungen und Ergänzungen von Werken verschiedener Komponisten), I even doubt whether it should mentioned at List of concert arias, songs and canons by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, unless someone writes a stand-alone article about it. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

text: You're welcome to use those sources to expand on David J. Buch's page –where similar papers are mentioned from 2001 and 2007– on his findings. The NYT article dates from 1997, the Early Musc article from 2008, and Buch's findings don't seem to have caused a great re-evaluation of Mozart's operatic catalogue since then. If Neal Zaslaw publishes a new catalogue which includes Der Stein der Weisen (and  (sic)), then we can start to think about adding it to the list of Mozart's operas. Adding a work which doesn't have a Köchel number to any list of Mozart's compositions requires more authoritative sources than the ones provided so far. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:32, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Der Stein der Weisen 

message: In a broadcast recital this year in London, Alexandre Tharaud played a Preambulum K.deest. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 18:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Robert D. Levin in  The Keyboard in Baroque Europe (ed. Christopher Hogwood, Cambridge UP 2003) discusses on pp. 208ff the 4 preambula K. 395/300g which Wolfgang sent for his sister from Munich to his father on 11 October 1777. Mozart included a further pelude for Marianne in his letter from Paris on 18 July 1778 and describes it in detail, but it was presumed lost. Maybe it has been found. I can't find anything in the NMA. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 08:56, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: PS: The only piece I can find is "Modulierendes Präludium (F–e) KV deest" (modulating prelude – F major to E minor) in NMA IX/27/2 "Klavierstücke", p. 4, but that is not what Levin above refers to. However, listening Tharaud's performance (at 12:43) for the Südwestrundfunk, that seems exactly what he plays. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:28, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Many thanks this is evidently the piece he played but even this title does not appear to be on this article page, nor on the "complete list" Köchel catalogue page either... (although perhaps as it is "KV deest" it shouldn't be there anyway). Maybe someone who is confident with the formatting of these pages could add it, I apologise being a bit nervous to step on others toes.  Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 14:14, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that almost none of the "K. deest" works – I think there are about 60 of them – are listed anywhere on Wikipedia, except some at List of concert arias, songs and canons by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. That's an obvious gap that someone needs to close – there's a New Year's resolution! -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:42, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preambulum 

message: Why not do what Mozarts Streichquintette does within the genre it covers? Here's an excerpt covering 1787–1791.
 Mozart's chamber music for strings
Year     	Trios                                             	Quartets                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Quintets
1787     	                                                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                              	KV 515: String Quintet No. 3 in C majorKV 516: String Quintet No. 4 in G minorKV Anh. 80 (514a): String Quintet Fragment in B-flat majorKV Anh. 86 (516a): String Quintet Fragment in G minorKV Anh. 81 (613a): String Quintet Fragment in E-flat major
1787–1788	                                                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                              	KV 406 (516b): String Quintet No. 2 in C minor
1787–1789	                                                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                              	KV Anh. 83 (592b): String Quintet Fragment in D major
1788     	KV 563: String Trio in E-flat major               	                                                                                                                                                                                                                              	
1789     	                                                  	KV 575: String Quartet No. 21 in D major                                                                                                                                                                                      	
1790     	                                                  	KV 589: String Quintet No. 22 in B-flat majorKV 590: String Quintet No. 23 in F major                                                                                                                                         	
1790–1791	KV Anh. 66 (562e): String Trio Fragment in G major	KV Anh. 73 (589b): String Quartet Fragment in F majorKV Anh. 75 (458a): String Quartet Fragment in B-flat majorKV Anh. 71 (458b): String Quartet Fragment in B-flat majorKV Anh. 84 (417d): String Quartet Fragment in E minor	KV Anh. 82 (613b): String Quintet Fragment in E-flat major
1791     	                                                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                              	KV 614: String Quintet No. 6 in E-flat majorKV Anh. 79 (515c): String Quintet Fragment in A minorKV Anh. 87 (515a): String Quintet Fragment in F major
And similarly for all the other years and all the other genres. Double sharp (talk) 08:19, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  A possible way to make both genre and chronology happy 

message: — Assignment last updated by Anacasb (talk) 14:22, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Public Musicology

message: in the previous layout Mozart's symphonies were the very first thing listed. Now most of them seem to be simply gone, can't find any. was there some kind of editing error? 95.29.44.47 (talk) 01:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  symphonies are gone now?