Talk:Borders of Israel

message: I've noticed that you've quoted Ilan Pappe quite a number of times as a source for your article. I'm just wondering if that is considered okay according to Wikipedia, because he is considered a controversial historian and his views are considered to be by many as POV. To quote from his wikipedia page "He is one of the "New Historians" who have re-examined and hold controversial views of the history of Israel and of Zionism." Leppi 08:56, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ilan Pappe 

message: A recent edit states that "The border segment from Ein Gedi to Beit She'an was not marked, because Jordan said that the Palestinian Authority should be a partner for setting this border." - This is unsourced, and appears to contradict the sourced statement in the next sentence, which says "Upon the official signing of the Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace, the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers, the Dead Sea, the Emek Ha'arva/Wadi Araba and the Gulf of Aqaba were officially designated as the borders between Israel and Jordan. " I am therefor removing the unsourced addition. Canadian Monkey (talk) 14:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The source is the linked treaty: Annex I(a), section 2A, paragraph 7. I'll see if I can find the map as well (which has been deleted on the JVL site).  MeteorMaker (talk) 19:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand the point you're trying to make, but the way you've worded it is incorrect (Beit Shean is more than 10 Km north of the end of that segement, and 5Km to the west) as well as confusing. I'll take a stab,  using the language from the treaty itself. Canadian Monkey (talk) 23:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That works. The En Gedi part has clear support in this more complete version of the document though. The border is left undefined north of 31 29 35 N, and the nearest populated place on the map is in fact En Gedi. I have not been able to track down the actual treaty maps yet (that was harder than I had imagined) but as soon as I find the documentation, I put back Beit She'an as the northern extreme of the undefined prt of the border. MeteorMaker (talk) 06:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Border with Jordan 

message: There is another Israel which isn't been mentioned in this article, despite it's immense (and very threatening) importance in the eyes of 100s of millions of people. It's the Zionist dream of "From the Nile to the Euphrates". It's not paranoia by Arafat, it's central to the project. (Actually, it predates Zionism by over 2000 years, God promises Abraham in Genesis 15:18 "To your descendants I give this land from the River of Egypt to the Great River, the river Euphrates.". Moses promises his descendants in Deuteronomy 11:24 that "every place where you set the soles of your feet shall be yours. Your borders shall run from the wilderness to the Lebanon and from the River, the river Euphrates, to the western sea.")
From the Nile to the Euphrates was there right at the beginning of Zionism - in 1898, Theodore Herzl planned to ask the Ottoman sultan for a territory stretching from the Egyptian frontier to the Euphrates.Theodor Herzl, Zionistisches Tagebücher, 1895-1899, edited by Johannes Wachten, Chaya Harel, et al. (Berlin: Ullstein, 1983), vol. 2, p. 650. For a catalogue of Zionist and Israeli statements, real and alleged, see Ass'ad Razzouq, Greater Israel: A Study in Zionist Expansionist Thought (Beirut: Palestine Liberation Organization Research Center, 1970), especially pp. 83, 87-90, 92, 96-97, 99-103, 144-45, 167-69, 178-81, 187, 209, 212-14, 230, 234, 240, 243-45, 249-52, 264, 278-82, 286. He and Isidore Bodenheimer regularily spoke of Jewish settlement in "Palestine and Syria". So did the Jewish National Fund and the Zionist Congress. In 1902, Herzl spoke of settling Jews in Mesopotamia.
Jabotinsky is quoted in 1935 saying "We want a Jewish Empire".Robert Gessner, "Brown Shirts in Zion," New Masses, Feb. 19, 1935, p. 11. The Stern Gang's 18 principles in 1940 included "from the brook of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates" David Ben-Gurion in 1954 "the border of Israel will be where the army takes it", Moshe Dayan spoke of expansion to Babylon and the Euphrates as he stood on the Golan Heights for the first time in 1967.Damascus Television, Feb. 18, 1986.Sa`d al-Bazzaz, Gulf War: The Israeli Connection, transl. Namir Abbas Mudhaffer (Baghdad: Dar al-Ma'mun, 1989).
Menachem Begin reminded Israelis that the Bible says the Israeli state will include portions of Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, Lebanon, Jordan and Kuwait.Tyler Courier-Times-Telegraph, 5 Feb. 1983; reported in The Los Angeles Times, Feb. 6, 1983.
And some Western sources were open about the same thing - British Ambassador to Istanbul "the domination of Egypt, the land of the Pharaohs, who forced the Jews to build Pyramids, is part of the future heritage of Israel."Secret letter from Gerard Lowther to Charles Hardinge, 29 May 1910, Foreign Office 800/193A (Lowther Papers). Quoted in Elie Kedourie, Arabic Political Memoirs and Other Studies (London: Frank Cass, 1974), p. 256.
All the above, including the references, comes from the very pro-Israel blogger and self-publisher (?) Daniel Pipes, along with a number of maps. I don't know whether we'd accept what he claims, that it's all there in the RS too. PRtalk 18:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a change you'd like to propiose to the article, or is this yet another one of your endless soapboxes? Canadian Monkey (talk) 18:17, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The planned Eretz Israel 

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Shebaafarms.png

message: The article states that "American President Woodrow Wilson protested British concessions in a cable to the British Cabinet". The only reference for this cable that I could find (except for other Wikipedia articles that use it) was from a political pamphlet  by one Meir Abelson, who is not a historian of any standing. Furthermore, he does not provide a source for his quote, which makes it impossible to confirm it and consider its context (which is particularly important given the distinct political slant of his writing). I have been unable to find this quote in the 69 volumes of Arthur S. Link, The Papers of Woodrow Wilson. Unless a more reliable source is provided, I would like to remove this quote. Copies of this message are posted in other Wikipedia articles where this cable is quoted with the hope of finding more information about it.--128.139.104.49 (talk) 13:22, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wilson protest 

message: Is there a reason that the consensus state of affairs is not made more clear? 
What issues are there perceived with this change? Unomi (talk) 03:05, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Even though I agree with what it says, I think it is too strident for the introduction.  Also it focuses on just one part of the border whereas the article is supposed to be about all the borders. On the other hand, breen1007's version is entirely useless (what does "The starting-point may be taken" mean and why may it be taken?  what secret agreement is being referred to?  Picot-Sykes?). Zerotalk 04:15, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are probably right that it sounds too strident. I think though that we should start with what the internationally accepted borders are now, and then deal with the historical evolution of them in the article. Unomi (talk) 04:20, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted this part in the lead, since its more accurate and sourced and the previous lead was useless. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

text: But don't you think that it would be proper to indicate what is the world consensus regarding the current borders of Israel?Unomi (talk) 11:18, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Which ones, the borders with Egypt, Jordan or Lebanon? —Ynhockey (Talk) 11:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The territory which is internationally recognized to be under Israeli civil law. Unomi (talk) 11:54, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what you are referring to. Israel has two borders—with Jordan and with Egypt—and one other border (with Lebanon) that's mostly not subject to dispute (other than the Shebaa Farms dispute). One could also say that there is a border with the Gaza Strip. However, all other borders are subject to final status agreements, i.e. there are no other borders. —Ynhockey (Talk) 11:57, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Being subject to final status agreements does not render the previous border null and void, it simply means that after the final status agreements they might be changed. In the interim period between having occupied a territory and negotiated a land transfer the borders remain unchanged though the land is occupied. Unomi (talk) 12:07, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole world recognizes that Resolution 242 describe what Israels accepted borders are, by way of the green line, and barring any internationally recognized agreements to the contrary that is how they will stay. We see that this notion is upheld by the ICJ, ECJ and indeed the Israeli Supreme court when they refer to the land as occupied. It should not need to be said that occupied land does not fall within your borders. Unomi (talk) 12:15, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Ynhockeys edit is unacceptable, he removed the worldview and re inserts unsourced text. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 11:30, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Unomi (talk) 11:54, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Regarding official borders, Ynhockey has a point.  Boundaries have different degrees of officialness, with the most official type being one specified in a mutual treaty between the states on each side of the boundary.  With that strict meaning, only Israel-Egypt and Israel-Jordan (except where the West Bank is between) are official.  Israel-Lebanon is close to that status, but I think the most precise statement is that the UN-marked border is accepted by both sides as an interim measure until such time as a mutual treaty makes it official.  Regarding the Green Line, the international community (including Israel except for Jerusalem) recognizes current Israeli sovereignty on one side and denies it on the other side, but this is not the same as recognizing the Green Line as a border. Strictly speaking the Green Line is still an armistice line. This interpretation can be argued about and obviously has been; we should cite such argument in the article.  Zerotalk 13:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You are probably right about the text that talks about Sykes–Picot. However, it is also clear that, while the agreement did not demarcate the mandate's final borders, it did create the separation of Palestine from Syria, which had a significant influence on the mandate's borders (and later Israel's). Also, again, I believe it is very important to mention the British separation of Transjordan from Cisjordan. Can you draft a lead section that you believe is acceptable? —Ynhockey (Talk) 13:47, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

text: P.S. I would also appreciate it if Unomi stopped making edits that are clearly false. "The internationally-recognized Israeli border is the 1949 armistice line"? Do you mean the border with Jordan? Or is the border with Lebanon called the Green Line? That's what the article currently implies. Let's stick to the facts please. —Ynhockey (Talk) 14:02, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

text: P.P.S. The source which Unomi used that supposedly supports her claims does not actually support it. This is a clear violation of policy, and I ask Unomi to self-revert. —Ynhockey (Talk) 14:05, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it deals with territory rather than borders? Do you accept that until final status agreements have been finalized the borders remain per the last internationally recognized agreement? It is all well and good that Israel have finalized its borders with some countries, but any border which is not covered by such agreement necessarily remain as before, please see Right of conquest. Unomi (talk) 14:33, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That is where you are wrong. There are no internationally-recognized Israeli borders in certain areas. Resolution 242, for example, stipulates that Israel should return territory to the Arabs under the condition that the Arabs recognize Israel. However, that's irrelevant to this argument. The Green Line is not a border, and even if it was, it constitutes about a third of Israel's total borders. You however decided to write in the article that the Green Line = all of Israel's borders, and moreover, used a reliable source that does not state this. Therefore, I ask you to please self-revert pending talk page consensus. —Ynhockey (Talk) 14:40, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Thanks. I have made another change to the lead, according to the valid point that Zero0000 raised. —Ynhockey (Talk) 15:18, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Green line 

message: I just made a map showing the agreements between Great Britain, Russia, Italy and France in 1916 (including Sykes-Picot) based on the original map in the British archives.  It shows more detail than the existing map here, but is less pretty.  An alternative for this article would be just the Palestine region that I have magnified in the inset.  Which is best?  Zerotalk 13:58, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: This article largely ignores the borders which led to Israel's creation. Can we put in a map showing where these borders were in relation to all the other subsequent borders?  
Aa42john (talk) 00:35, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you referring to the borders of the UN partition plan?  Zerotalk 00:39, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  UN-recognised borders 

message: "The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation"
This is quite incorrect.  Territory can only be legally 'acquired' by legal annexation, which requires a referendum of the citizens of the territory being annexed.  This has been Customary International Law since at least 1845.  (See the annexation of Texas by the USA)
Israel has never legally annexed any territory to the extent of it's declared sovereignty and it is inadmissible to acquire territory by war.
 
Let's look closely at the justification put forward on behalf of Israel by Stephen M. Schwebel – who was NOT a Judge of International Court of Justice when he made the following statement.
"The state of the law has been correctly summarized by Elihu Lauterpacht, who points out that: territorial change cannot properly take place as a result of the unlawful use of force. But to omit the word “unlawful” is to change the substantive content of the rule and to turn an important safeguard of legal principle into an aggressor’s charter. For if force can never be used to effect lawful territory change, then, if territory has once changed hands as a result of the unlawful use of force, the illegitimacy of the position thus established is sterilized by the prohibition upon the use of force to restore the lawful sovereign. This cannot be regarded as reasonable or correct"
It contains glaring errors which would not have stood the test of peer review had he been in office.  It is a straw man argument which is not even based on the actual wording of the resolutions. 
A) The UNSC resolutions say precisely "Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war" 'acquisition'
They are referring to acquiring territory which was not formerly sovereign to the acquiring party.  If it is one’s sovereign territory already, one is not ‘acquiring’ it, one is ‘restoring' it.  Israel has never had to 'restore' any sovereign territory. It has never had any sovereign territory taken.
B) It is inadmissible to acquire territory by war because it is unlawful according to the UN Charter. 
C) The UNSC resolutions do not qualify 'defensive' or 'aggressive'. It is inadmissible to 'acquire' territory  by a ANY war.  The reason is simple.  The inhabitants might not have voted for, or even been able to vote for, the regime in power at the start of the conflict. The UN Charter stipulates ‘self determination’. Not the determination of a conquering power. There must be a referendum of the citizens of the territory being 'acquired' (via annexation).
D) The preemptor starts it's preemptive war.  With Jewish forces outside of Israel's declared boundaries as they were being declared, the civil war in Palestine escalated by the preemptive Plan Dalet in the weeks preceding Declaration, became a war waged by a State against what remained of Palestine at "one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time."  As regional Powers representing the Palestinians, the Arab States had a right, according to the UN Charter Chapt XI, to attempt to expel foreign forces from what remained of Palestine. 
------
Israeli Government statements relating to the declared borders of Israel in relationship to UNGA Res 181
May 15, 1948 Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States,
“MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.” Also available as PDF from the Truman Library 
May 22, 1948 The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the “Jewish authorities in Palestine” was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
Question (a): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947?
“In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed.” Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907 Art. 42 SECTION III
“Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised. “
June 15, 1949 Israel-s position on its frontiers VOLUMES 1-2: 1947-1974
“As for the frontier between the State of Israel and the area west of the Jordan which is not included in Israel…...”
On the 31st Aug 1949,  Israel made it’s first official claim to territories beyond "the frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947"
AFTER notifying the International Community of Nations/States of the extent of it's Declared Sovereign territories as being "within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947", 
AFTER it had been recognized, according to the notification,  by the majority of the International Community of Nations/States (over riding the Arab States legal objections), 
AFTER it had confirmed it's military controlled territories outside of the "frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947", i.e., "outside of Israel"
AFTER it had been accepted into the UN, recommended by the UNSC based on the information tendered by the Israeli Government May 22nd 1948 and June 15nd 1949 in respect to the territories it controlled "outside of Israel"
I suggest the lead article be changed to reflect the Israeli Government's statements and the actual legal status of Israel's declared and recognized borders.  If it isn’t the “acknowledged” sovereign territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel, by default it’s a territory of Palestine…
talknic (talk) 15:14, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The extent of Israel's declared sovereignty according to statements by the Israeli Government May 15th 1948, May 22nd 1948, June 15th 1949, Aug 31st 1949. 

message: :As it stood before my edit, the Armistice Agreements and UNSC res 425 were already referenced in the Article
:Under UNSC Res 425 they were only tasked with defining Lebanese sovereignty, not Israeli borders.  The previous edit, which I corrected, was inaccurately portraying the resolution it cited.
:The main points of the Armistice Agreements, also already referenced before my edit, surely included the terms of the agreement.  Which were "dictated exclusively by military considerations"
:Armistice Lines are "Armistice Demarcation Lines", not borders, though they do at some points follow borders which might have existed before the armistice.
:This line - "In effect that line was recognised by both Lebanon and by Israel as the international border, and not just as the armistice line of 1949"  needs a citation because that ain't what the Armistice Agreement AGREED to and I can not find any WP:RS accurately reflecting the aforementioned claim, so I've contested it.
:This line - "On May 25, 2000, Israel notified the Secretary-General that it had redeployed its forces in compliance with Council Resolution 425, that is to the international border"  The only mention of an 'international boundary' is the international boundary between Lebanon and Palestine
:This Line - "The  Blue Line identified by the United Nations in 2000.." was the extent of the sovereignty of Lebanon, according to (the already referenced) UNSC Res 425.  Nowhere in the document does it say 'between Lebanon and Israel'
:This line - "The armistice line (i.e. Green Line) was the international border, which corresponds to the 1923 Mandate border between the Lebanon and Palestine according to the Armistice Agreement"  Article V 1. The Armistice Demarcation Line should follow the international boundary between Lebanon and Palestine.
:Same Line - "The armistice line (i.e. Green Line) was the international border, which corresponds to the 1923 Mandate border between the French Mandate of Lebanon and the British Mandate of Palestine (see: Treaty of Sèvres)."  A mandate is a set of conditions for administration.  Territory has borders, a set of conditions does not.  The two territories were Lebanon and Palestine, which were administered by mandates.
:You could have challenged the various points in Talk instead of reverting wholesale. If you had reverted every other edit mentioning UNSC Res 425 and the Armistice Agreements you might have had a point.  If you reverted other obvious vandalism at the same frequency you revert almost every edit I make, or take other editors to task for introducing Primary Sources into Talk or address edits point by point by other means, it wouldn't appear as though you're on some sort of a weird personal mission  ... talknic (talk) 15:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  NMMNG's revert / My restore - The Armistice Agreements and UNSC res 425 are already referenced in the Article 

message: I don't think this is notable for this article.  It doesn't really try to cover the polemical "map war".  For example, it doesn't even mention that the Israeli's government's own tourist site has maps not showing the green line . Zerotalk 13:52, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  NSW Jewish Board of Deputies 

message: Largely refused Israeli citizenship. See : Less than 10 percent of the Golan Druze have chosen to take Israeli citizenship. nableezy - 05:01, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Druze in Golan 

message: The material I removed was (a) polemic - juxtaposing an editorial comment ("However") which does not appear in the source to counter a previous claim, and (b) untrue  - the source given does not  say it was a recommendation to Britain, but rather to " to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations". Primary source material such as the  text of 181 should not be used, in any case, and neither one of the sources say "it was not an approval" I invented "it's not you, it's me" (talk) 03:50, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  
End of British Mandate
 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In this section, the caption of Israel's green lines map is wrong. It should say the other way around: demilitarized zones (in border with Syrian Golan and "No man's land" near Latrun) are marked by dark green, while Green Line in general is in light green. Can you see the mistake in description?--181.93.81.159 (talk) 03:53, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: I will not answer this edit request as this same IP went to my Talk page to look at this edit request. OP, the point about an edit request is to make the request and leave it for an editor to review without reminding them on their Talk page. Please understand that not all editors are available. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 04:05, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I clarified this. I believe the line is actually dark green in the image (possibly more than the shaded area) - it just "appears" lighter since it is thin and next to white (particularly when resized and interlopated). Instead of specifying color - I specified "green thin line" and "green thick line/areas).Icewhiz (talk) 06:21, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 September 2017 

message: Change broken link http://www.science.co.il/embassies.asp
TO: https://www.science.co.il/Embassies.php Genewiki1 (talk) 22:03, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Genewiki1 Huh?? Both links work ok for me? Huldra (talk) 22:35, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for your reply. The old link works because it is redirected. This old link should be replaced with the new one noted above. Genewiki1 (talk) 23:13, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Genewiki1, ok Ive changed it, Huldra (talk) 23:22, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 December 2017 

message: thumb|Land holdings at the end of the Mandate
"On 15 May 1948, the Transjordanian Arab Legion, in conjunction with other regular Arab armies, entered what had been Mandate Palestine, seizing control of what come to be called the West Bank, East Jerusalem including the Old City. The tide of battle soon turned against the Arabs, and Israel then launched a series of military offensives, greatly expanding its territorial holdings." --- I don't have time lately, but I recall that much of these expanded territories were already held before May 15. So I challenge the implication that the expansion was a reaction to the Arab armies. Zerotalk 21:56, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct - the map above illustrates it (although I cannot vouch for the accuracy/sourcing of the map). Onceinawhile (talk) 00:08, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  expanded territories 

message: It is common practice with other countries to have a unique page for each boundary (e.g. see examples here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:International_borders). 
Perhaps it would be better if this already quite long article was split up in such a way?
The current article is also ipso facto Israel-centric (possible neutrality issues) ... splitting it would give the bordering countries equal weight.
WisDom-UK (talk) 21:26, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I forgot to add the split tag so have done so now.WisDom-UK (talk) 14:21, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: OK as far as I am concerned. Onceinawhile (talk) 16:30, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

text: Maybe. The scope should be discussed. I think such articles should contain the history of the boundary including the Ottoman and Mandate periods. What concerns me the most is that the articles might degenerate into yet another dreary recitation of border incidents. Zerotalk 04:14, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

text: Per Zero. Of course, there is no "Israel" pre 48 to have borders of, only Zionist pretensions to. I would suggest to maybe get this history aspect into the current article before splitting it?Selfstudier (talk) 10:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

text: Yes, I was thinking just using the template that is on other pages e.g. Jordan–Syria border, Syria–Turkey border, Iraq–Saudi Arabia border etc. Basically covering: Description of the border, History of the border, Border crossings. The History section would over the creation of the boundaries in the Palestine mandate period.WisDom-UK (talk) 11:14, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Coolio, I am going to this soon, I got distracted working on other pages. I'm not sure whether it's worth keeping a 'shell page' for 'Borders of Israel'. IMO they are generally poor quality, and where 'Border x-y' articles exists they are redundant, though when I nominated some of these for deletion (Russia, Azerbaijan, China etc.) the consensus was to keep them.WisDom-UK (talk) 15:37, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split into separate pages?? 

message: It's not clear what exactly yellow and green represent on the title map. Can we clarify in the caption or the actual PNG what green and yellow precisely mean?  Quohx (talk) 05:42, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request: add key on the map for colors? 

message: Israel has never officially declared its borders, not in its declaration of independance, nor later. I think that is a very important issue to mention. One can read about it here. https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-709240 Besserwisser32 (talk) 15:01, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It did, once,  but then see Israeli Declaration of Independence#Borders Selfstudier (talk) 16:44, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting, I hadnt seen this letter before. I do know that Israel's application to the UN was rejected by the security council for reasons which include that it hadn't declared its bordersUnited Nations Security Council (UNSC), Official Records, 358th mtg., UN Doc. S/PV.385 (17 December 1948), https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/437DD877E349151B052566CE006D9189. DMH43 (talk) 22:30, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Israel never declared its borders