Talk:Rick Warren/Archive 1

message: The critiques section below continues the relevant part of this discussion. Andrewa 00:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: See below

message: This page needs major revisions to conform to Wikipedia standards (and the problems are not just limited to NPOV issues). Here are my suggestions as to what should be changed. Hopefully, this can start a discussion.
1) In general, better organization. The entire first section (before "The P.E.A.C.E. Plan") can be organized into a brief overview section, and a (choronological) biography section.
2) Cut the P.E.A.C.E. plan section. One sentence stating that Dr. Warren created the P.E.A.C.E. plan is good enough. Then either link to a separate Wikipedia article or to http://www.peace.gs/ if a reader wants more information. This will also get rid of some of the more eggregious fawning sentences ("Rick Warren is passionate about finding solutions to the world's biggest problems." I don't doubt that he is, but is it really necessary to include this in an encylopedia article?).
3) Cut the Work in Rwanda section. Again, one or two sentences will suffice.
4) Cut the Media Quotes section.
5) Expand The Purpose Driven Network section by moving some of the earlier information into here. Again, this will help with organization.
6) Cut the External Links to critiques... section. We do not need 30 different links to outside sources. Wikipedia articles are not collections of links. If a reader wants to find more information on Rick Warren, he/she can Google him. The five links currently under External links are good enough.
7) If there are outspoken detractors of Dr. Warren, use one or two sentences to give readers a general overview on the common criticisms leveled at his ideas.
Thoughts?
--69.28.2.225 16:02, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of this is done, but the refactor I have performed has mainly provided a platform for these improvements. Go to it. See refactor below. Andrewa 12:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A Major Revision

message: this whole article appears to be an ad
Should it be referenced like that?
*Although Dr. Warren has many followers, his Purpose Driven teaching has given rise to many critics as well.  Prominent names such as John F. MacArthur and Dave Hunt to name a few.  Might it be prudent to discuss the opposition?  Or is that too controversial?
*I deleted the critics section, it had poor grammar and poor quality, and only expressed the opinion of a tiny minority and cited a small site.  I agree that the Rick Warren page needs a lot of work, but this section was not going anywhere as-is. Clearly Rick Warren faces oppositions and critics, so someone may re-write the section, preferably from scratch, with a good source or two, NPOV, and reasonable grammar.
<P>I am not a detractor, but language such as Warren is "not a pretentious person who seeks the limelight,[but] he quietly goes about his work" is hardly objective. --SonPraises 02:05, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rick Warren's Critics

message: The "P.E.A.C.E." plan was just recently launched by Saddleback Church.
It is designed to address 5 different "global giants":
* Spiritual Emptiness - P.lant churches
* Egocentric Leaders - E.quip servant leaders
* Extreme Poverty - A.ssist the poor
* Disease - C.are for the sick
* Illiteracy and lack of education - E.ducate the next generation
It currently involves litterally tens of thousands of people, and will eventually include millions. Just the number of people that are/will be affected and involed in the PEACE movement alone makes it very significant, so there should be something mentioned about it here, and/or on the Saddleback Church page, and the PEACE plan itself should have its own article. What title should it have?
See Talk:P.E.A.C.E. Plan. Andrewa 23:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  P.E.A.C.E plan? 

message: Where is the basis for these so-called 'allegations' of yours? Do you have any proof other than the fact that Rick Warren isn't a fascist like yourself?
I'll admit, I have been very disgusted with Christianity for a while now, but people like Rick give me hope that maybe, just MAYBE, God doesn't hate me. It is people like you who make me think otherwise.
Anyway, that being said, maybe we need to clean up this article just a little bit for visual reasons, and possibly remove some minor POV things, but to be honest this article is not horridly biased, only a bit so.
Tobias 04:53, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  To the post above: what the FOXTROT? 

message: The following quote was removed: 
:"Of all the trends I've observed, the explosion of the "seeker"-centered megachurches is one of the most disturbing. Mega- churches in America have become absurd to the point where satire is almost impossible. Starbucks franchises and Christian tattoo parlors are now on church property. Rappers, hula praise dancers, contortionists, acupuncturists, liposuctionists, the side show of evangelicalism has an ever expanding cast of performers. The future of evangelicalism is here and it comes as an Elvis impersonator. Worse, in a quest for what's real, false teaching is entering through the traditions of the East, like meditation and yoga in the new Emergent church movement." - Slice of Laodicea
This quote does not describe Warren's church.  There are no tattoo parlors or contortionists or acupunturists or even liposuctionists on the church property. They do have a coffee shop but I don't believe it is a Starbucks franchise.  Although Starbucks is including a quote from The Purpose-Driven Life book on their coffee cups.  RonCram 22:22, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism should apply to Warren's church