Talk:Final girl

message: Minor quibble: Were films such as "Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Friday the 13th, Halloween, and A Nightmare on Elm Street" really films with a predominately male audience? MinorEdit June 30, 2005 00:44 (UTC)
:you're right. maybe remove the word "predomionantly"... from the second link: Although Clover doesn't claim that these woman are feminist representations of women, she acknowledges their role on a deeper level instead of writing them off as one dimensional damsels in distress, seeing within the Final Girl an evolving woman who learns to not just run and scream but actually fight back and represent female empowerment which the male audience can then identify with. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Niz (talk • contribs) 
Not so minor quibble: "final girl" is a CONVENTION of the genre, perhaps even a conceit, but certainly not a "trope."  This should be changed in the heading section which has no edit button (I changed it in the history section).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.17.217.255 (talk) 00:17, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Quibble

message: "The final girl is a horror film trope that specifically refers to the last person (usually a woman or girl) alive to confront the killer"
"Usually"? I've never heard a male character referred to as a final girl.Legend Chronicles (talk) 20:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usually a woman or female? 

message: In many episodes of The Avengers, the Villain targets a group of people (scientists who worked on project X, directors of corporation Y, witnesses to event Z) – of whom Steed and Cathy/Emma/Tara save exactly one.  —Tamfang 04:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  and then again 

message: I'm concerned about this article: it appears to be parroting the views of Carol Clover from her book.  There is one essay (posted online, editorial level of attention unclear) that refers back to Clover's book, but that's all, the rest is presenting Clover's viewpoint.  Is this really appropriate?  We should not have an article on this if it's basically the research of one person, but only if the concept has been discussed and analyzed by many people.  Mangojuicetalk 22:57, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More references? 

message: Another contributor added a list of films to the article.  I think it is a great addition, but I have a couple suggestions.  First, adding another column in which to put the films year of release.  Secondly, there are other films that feature a final girl (e.g. Alien,  A Nightmare on Elm Street, etc.) that should be added.  Thanks.  66.191.19.68 (talk) 00:12, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of films ... 

message: It appears that an anon IP changed the film list from that of a table to a simple list.  Anyone else think the former format was better?  I do.  On that topic, do we even need a list, or could the majority of films featuring a Final Girl be referenced, internally linked, and properly sourced in the body?  Just throwing it out for discussion. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 23:36, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the list as completely unreferenced, and restored the cited content from the previous table. I also removed a recent addition of a "Hypotetical [sic] descent" section to the page as likely original research, especially given the use of self-referential first-person. It seems to be meticulously complied, but even if it was found to be pulled from an independent source with the appropriate licensing, I have concerns about the data set and the analysis. I don't understand why the The Frighteners is even mentioned. Dancter (talk) 17:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not to say that I disagree with underlying observation. There is certainly reputable and verifiable commentary on the typical "whiteness" of final girls, and I think it would be a good idea to include some of that to flesh out the concept in this article. Dancter (talk) 20:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the follow up and the work regarding the list.  As to the ethnicity issue, I am going to reply to the topic started by our anonymous friend below, but totally agree with your assessment. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 20:55, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film List 

message: Shouldn't Terminator 1 be on the list.  In it there was an unstoppable killer and by the end the only person left is Sarah Connor, a girl.  And in the end she defeats the killer.  I think that makes it eligible for the list.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.27.39.106 (talk) 22:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Addition to the List

message: As it is, the article contains spelling in both American and British English;  with most of the spelling in the former.  Either is fine, but according to the MOS, it should be one or the other, but never both within the same article.  I thought I'd post here before performing any changes.  I don't particularily mind either way, but we should reach an agreement beforehand.  Thanks. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 17:50, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I went ahead and changed it to American English.  Reason being that the majority of the text was already using that spelling and I'm more familiar with the aforementioned spelling.  Moving forward, I suppose we should keep that format, unless there is a reason for the changes.  Thanks. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 17:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  English used 

message: I don't get it: in my opinion Buffy has NO place AT ALL in an article about the topic "final girl", let alone occupying such a HUGE portion of it. What the heck's up with that? -- MF (talk), 21:40, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  The section is introduced by saying that Buffy isn't a final girl, so why should such a large portion of the article be devoted to her?  I'm removing it. CKarnstein (talk) 21:01, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

text: Doesn't the Bettis quote about the Buffy character "subverting" the Final Girl trope make it relevant to the article?  There seems to be a good deal in books about the relation of Buffy to the Final Girl idea:   1     2    3    4     5      6  --ChetvornoTALK 22:04, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be relevant to mention Buffy as a subversion of this trope, but most of the content included here really belongs in the articles on Buffy/Willow/B:TVS.  In fact, some of it is copied nearly verbatim from the Buffy character article.  I am editing down the Buffy section here and would encourage people who wish to write at greater length on Buffy as a subversion of the Final Girl trope to do so on the actual Buffy article. CKarnstein (talk) 18:18, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Buffy -- why is that character in this article, in the first place?

message: I have some serious doubts as to the notability of this article---and even greater doubts as to the actual contents.  
As is, we have the trite observation that horror movies usually involves the killing of people from the group of protagonists---by which means the tension is kept up and the presupposition of a happy-ending/"the heroes always live" is neutralized. Now, as the group of protagonists shrinks, it will often be reduced to a very small group of heroes and sometimes to a single hero. In the latter case, we sometimes have a man and sometimes a woman. To reduce this greater phenomenon to a "final girl" is misleading and it is highly dubious whether the specific concept of a "final girl" (as opposed to more general concepts like "the surviving minority"/"the last survivor" or "the one who finally brings the monster down") is noteworthy.
(In particular, there are a number of very notable movies with a non-girl final survivor or group of survivors, including Evil Dead, Hostel, Saw, and Jaws, and many others where any remaining girl is merely a damsell-in-distress rescued by the final boy, a love interest of the final boy, and/or serves as the final boys reward.)
The further speculation on e.g. slasher films vs feminism, gender-roles, whatnot, is unlikely to be appropriate (being speculation and merely one conceivable opinion/line-of-thinking). Notably, even if "final girls" turn out to be more common than "final boys" on a closer inspection, other explanations are very possible, including that physically weaker women make better and more natural under-dog victims.
Michael Eriksson (talk) 23:14, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability and contents questionable 

message: This does not deserve its own entry in an encyclopedia. A section about it in the slasher film entry would suffice. The whole article is basically a summary of one book and so one person's opinion on the matter. You may as well just do an entry for the book itself--it would probably not look much different. Alialiac (talk) 07:48, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said three years ago (see above), "Use of GoogleScholar or GoogleBooks (especially the former) will lead you to a number of scholarly uses of the term, particularly in feminst film studies; and a standard websearch finds that the concept is part of the memescape in popular culture as well." --Orange Mike | Talk 14:29, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

text: +1 to Orange Mike's comment.--Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs)  21:57, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should be moved to entry on slasher films 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The last two sentences of the section "Usage" seem a bit irrelevant.  The discussion of declining popularity of slasher films and rising popularity of other genres feels out of place, as does the mention of the "Dysfunctional Mother".Taylorboswell01 (talk) 23:26, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Usage" Relevancy 

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thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: I think we should add a final girl from the 2000s because we don't see any you think we should add the girl from behind the mask the rise of Leslie Vernon so we can have a final girl from the 2000s? Judyhopkins (talk) 03:19, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, but could you reword your comment? It's difficult to understand. I think I might have figured it out. I think you're asking about Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon. We need two things from you. Which character are you referring to? And most importantly, we need a reliable source to support your request. Sundayclose (talk) 04:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final girl 

message: Lila Crain is the "final girl" and real protagonist in Hitchcock's 1960s classic Psycho, and finds Norman Bates mother in the basement. Is the reason she's not counted here is because of her boyfriend still being alive too? Shouldn't that character be considered at least the "prototype" of this trope?
Shouldn't there at least be a discussion of Hitchcock's influence on this trope? I mean he did basically create this trope with Psycho and The Birds, even though the "boyfriend" also survives. Colliric (talk) 05:08, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Psycho