Talk:Apple/Archive 1

message: Frankly, I think it's silly to have a disambiguation page here. People who want to link to Apple Computer can do that, this page should be about the fruit. The other two disambigs aren't even worth mentioning. --Eloquence 01:29 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)
:well it was me that made the disambig page and you are probably right (seemed a good idea at the time...). Feel free to make the changes if you can be arsed, but will that then mean the hassle of changing all the pages that link to apple (fruit)
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I deleted "; this derives from Druidic divination methods" since while many modern day folk hypothesize that this is the case we have no data from the druids or classical sources that describe such a practice with apples. DigitalMedievalist 03:54, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  (Untitled discussions) 

message: I've decided to start a little project: writing entries for various of the apple cultivars. I'm not sure if they all warrant their own articles, but I guess I'll find out! --jpgordon{gab} 00:19, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I think it is a bit 'over the top' to have a page for each apple cultivar. My suggestion would be to start a new page List of Apple cultivars which would be an annotated list with a few lines of text about the cultivar (origin, appearance, etc), and individual pages (if for any at all) only the half-dozen or so globally most important cultivars. But given what is already at e.g. Granny Smith or Red Delicious, I'd say even these pages could be made redirects to List of Apple cultivars with their text transferred there - MPF 17:52, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense -- though some (like Red Delicious) are important enough to have 'em -- and lots of them actually have interesting histories mythologies. (Though if every damn Pokemon deserves a page, why not every damn apple cultivar?) --jpgordon{gab} 18:33, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apple project 

message: How come User:68.39.109.149 removed the list of cultivars, pictures, etc from Apple?
--jpgordon{gab} 19:10, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the...? 

message: Shouldn't there be a mention of the apple that supposedly fell in Sir Isaac Newton's head - making him think of the law of universal gravitation - in this topic? It has become a part of physics "folklore" in western culture...
:If it was true, yes - but as far as I know, it's a myth. MPF 19:09, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural Aspects 

message: Before this gets too out of hand, I would like to know if anyone besides User:MPF really thinks the table of contents needs to be shortened so badly that we need to use non-standard sections here. I don't, but maybe that's just me. -- WormRunner | Talk 3 July 2005 14:51 (UTC)
moved from User talk:WormRunner so this is a public discussion
Hi Wormrunner,
I've got to disagree over the huge TOC at apple, it shifts all of the text completely out of view and leaves a huge area of white space. It looks absolutely awful. I don't see any need for those subheaders, either, they're superfluous - MPF 3 July 2005 16:56 (UTC)
:First, allowing people to make their own choice about the TOC is the function of the "hide" link. Second, the TOC can be moved down by putting __TOC__ farther down in the article. Third, by eliminating the first heading "Botanical Origins", thus merging it with the introduction, it pushes the TOC down to a level you might like better. Fourth, perhaps some of the subheadings could be merged, though pollination by itself is quite long. Fifth, isn't changing the basic style one uses for headers a subject for discussion on the manual of style? Sixth, part of the value of sections is that it makes the process of editing and tracking edits easier.
:I am quite willing to go along with majority opinion here, but I think if we are going to change the basic method of creating headers in an article, it should be part of the manual of style, or perhaps this discussion has already taken place and I missed it? -- WormRunner | Talk 3 July 2005 17:20 (UTC)
::I have no trouble with the article as it is. However, I rearranged an image so as to reduce the blank space. However I would rather have the TOC on the left side of the page. I've tried several other possibilities, but it doesn't work. A table that would put the image at the right spot between the TOC and the taxobox would solve the problem. But the tags align = left (or center, or right) probably won't solve the problem. Dreamweaver could do the trick, but I don't think the wiki-software could handle this. Any ideas ? JoJan 4 July 2005 06:00 (UTC)
:::I think JoJan's pic idea is a good solution, though I think I might swap pics around a bit to (a) have a slightly larger pic in the position (prob :Image:Appletree bloom l.jpg as it's a nice pic that'll set off the fruit in the taxobox) and (b) so the Malus sieversii pic stays tied to the botanical section where it is relevant. Come to think of it, we (surprisingly!) don't yet have a decent description of what an apple (tree) is/looks like, so I'll add that to go with a pic at the top - MPF 4 July 2005 08:52 (UTC)
::::I've added a potted description now; the layout on my screen looks good at the mo, but if I increase the text size slightly (thinking of people who need larger text size for reading), it kicks the apple flower pic below the TOC (even worse than ever!) - someone know how to sort this? - MPF 4 July 2005 14:25 (UTC)
: Problem solved (thanks to Wikipedia:Help Desk). Putting the TOC between div tags and letting it float to the left. By resizing the picture, it fits neatly between the TOC and the taxobox. As to increasing the text size, the arrangement of pictures can only remain steady if the width of the pictures is expressed in percent and not in pixels. JoJan 4 July 2005 14:41 (UTC)
::That was a neat solution. Thank you. -- WormRunner | Talk 4 July 2005 17:07 (UTC)
:Thanks Jo; just after I typed the above (14:25 UTC), I shrank the pic from 340px to 330px, which held the pic up at the next text size up ('medium' on I.E.; I use 'smaller') on my monitor - 275px seems a bit small to me for filling the white space, but maybe my monitor is larger than many people have? - MPF 4 July 2005 14:46 (UTC)
You should be aware that on some browsers (e.g. Safari) the picture of the apple tree in bloom appears underneath the table of contents, increasing the amount of wasted space before the article begins. I suggest removing the picture (or placing it later in the article) and moving more content up into the lead section instead. Gdr 15:32:45, 2005-08-14 (UTC)
:*The tree in bloom picture only renders neatly on a widescreen such as mine. For the typically targeted narrow width, the picture is pushed way down to the bottom and looks akward. Just a note. Laundrypowder 19:12, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  section headings 

message: I have put For the brand of computers, see Apple computer. in the first part about the disambiguation. I think that this saves time for people who want to see that. Feel free to take it out, just put your reasoning below or on my talk page. HereToHelp 11:56, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Computer Disambig 

message: Right now there is a 'health benefits' section of the apple. This fits under nutritional information (unless you believe that apple on the skin lore...). I propose we either move the 'health benefits' in this article to the nutrition one, or merge the nutritional information article into this article. I don't really care which, so I propose we put it to a vote. To draw attention to this, I will post a merger request on the main page until it's resolved though. I'll assume anyone who votes against merging it into this article is for moving the 'health benefits' section to the nutritional wiki article. Tyciol 19:19, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Nutritional information about the apple article is too large to merge to this article, in my opinion. I suggest retitling the Health benefits section to a more neutral subheading (e.g., "Nutritional information"), and including a  or  link to the nutritional info article. --Muchness 00:23, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Muchness - MPF 01:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

text: If the nutritional table were smaller I would be all for a merge, but at its curent size I think it needs its own article. --Hetar 07:35, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Nutritional information about the apple]]

message: I've excised the connection to the Italian town of Avella because the preponderance of the evidence is in favor of a much older origin of the name in Proto-Indo-European. (What's likely is that Avella was named for apples, not the other way around.) In any case, it doesn't make any sense -- the traditional apple climate is rather colder than is usual in southern Italy, and the original PIE root is common to most of the more northern Indo-European language families. Haikupoet 06:53, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology issue

message: I think this article could address bruising. Perhaps someone could give an explanation as to why an apple bruises on impact, and why these bruises are brown. --Burbster 12:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Almost all fleshy fruits bruise; when they are soft enough to eat, mechanical damage can easily break cells, rupturing vacuoles and mxing their contents with the cytoplasm. Oxidation causes the brown color: if you slice an apple, put lemon juice on one cut surface and not the other, and leave it for a few days, the antioxidants in the lemon juice will reduce the browning of the treated slice. In general, I think a Bruising (plants) would be more useful that putting the information only here.--Curtis Clark 00:32, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bruising 

message: Under the Health benefits section I saw the following comment...
"Apples are historically known for producing apple milk. A derivative of apple curd, apple milk is widely used throughout Tibet."
Does anyone know what its used for? Because if we don't note what its supposed health benefits are, or what medicinal use it is purported to have, perhaps it shouldn't be in that section. -- WonderbreadUSA 03:24, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Health benefits

message: I just want to let everyone know that I’ll be making changes to the Cultural Aspects section of this article later today in an atempt to clean up the section, because there are many things that are very out of place there. The majority of the information will stay the same, I’m just going to organize it and add some info. -- WonderbreadUSA 13:04, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Heads up

message: I’m going to be adding the traditions header back, If someone isn’t comfortable with that then they need to find a suitable place for the following information because they clearly are not considered Legend or folklore and do NOT belong in that section:
* In some places, bobbing for apples is a traditional Halloween activity.
* In the United States, Denmark and Sweden, an apple (polished) is a traditional gift for a teacher. This stemmed from the fact that teachers during the 16th to 18th centuries were poorly paid, so parents would compensate the teacher by providing food. As apples were a very common crop, teachers would often be given baskets of apples by students. As wages increased, the quantity of apples was toned down to a single fruit.
If it is felt that this header is truly “superfluous” then perhaps the information under it should be removed completely because it does not fit anywhere else as categorized. (unsigned comment by WonderbreadUSA)
:Maybe my edit will satisfy everyone. If not, you can revert it.--Curtis Clark 05:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks man. I didn’t mean to come across as angry or anything, although rereading it now it does kinda look that way. I just meant to make the point that people really shouldn’t delete a header without changing the above header to include the new information. This solution works fine for me. WonderbreadUSA 07:01, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine by me. I felt that 'traditions' and 'folklore' were sufficiently similar subjects to combine under one header, given that the TOC is already over-long (too many headers on the page as a whole). Curtis's adapting the header title solves it nicely. Anything else that can be done to combine small headed paragraphs together under single headers would be a good thing - MPF 11:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: “superfluous” header

message: There should be some listings of different apples like:
There is a different apple in Africa. The apple is coloured pink and very small.
:>x<ino 02:25, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different Types of apples 

message: I replaced the link http://www.usapple.org/consumers/appleguide/index.cfm with 
http://www.usapple.org/consumers/appleguide/guide.cfm#braeburn.
While both links point to the same target website, the first link opens directly on the 'variety plus dates' description mentioned in the article.
DocDee 15:44, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replaced link 

message: What do apples taste like?  16:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taste 

message: There seems to be a vandalism spree happening with this article. The last few pages of updates are almost entirely vandaliam and it's corrections. Any idea what's going on? --Professor London 07:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's always been a problem on this and other similarly high-profile pages - for other examples, see the list at Wikipedia:Most vandalized pages. - MPF 11:15, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I wish he'd get a hobby. Just protected the page again. Not sure what else to do. --Woohookitty(meow) 08:36, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: I love this article on apples in the US. Are apples widely grown elsewhere in the world/ Is there a commercial apple growing industry as big as the US? Australia, New Zealand South Africa.. or even Germany or other European countries? Just food for thought.. Ozdaren 07:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So fix it. 
 (At this season in California, most of the apples in the grocery are from New Zealand and Chile.)--Curtis Clark 13:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just read an interesting US article on the world production of Apple juice. [] and a Tasmanian link [] Ozdaren 23:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  By the way I meant the title of this section to be tongue in cheek. I hope no one is offended... The light of day makes the title seem a bit less humorous. C'est la vie Ozdaren 23:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: China is also a major apple grower. But the fix for the the imbalance of locale is for editors in these areas to speak up and add appropriate material. Pollinator 13:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  All the way with LBJ.. oops I mean the USA 

message: I've removed the image of Two Young Men by Crispin van den Broeck. The interpretation of the apple in this picture is tendentious. It likely has a symbolic significance, but that significance is heavily disputed. Mangoe 18:39, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Strikes me as a perfectly valid inclusion. It is no more or less valid than the other piece of art illustrated - MPF 23:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it isn't. The apple as the representation of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil needs no defense; the interpretation of the painting as sexually suggestive is, from what I have seen, a modern fantasy. There's not a lot of point to including the picture as an example of symbolic meaning when it cannot be said what the symbols mean. Mangoe 01:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Young Men 

message: If I read correctly, text under this heading and text behind the external link are not saying the same thing. I would suggest the text below. Could someone double check this? Maybe the heading should be changed also?
"As healthful as the fruit is, apples carry cyanide in their seeds. Amount of the cyanide is so small, however, that you would need to save the seeds from about a bushel of apples and eat them all at once for ill effects. "
20:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad seeds 

message: This article is delisted from GA articles, because of the following reasons:
# References and external links are mixed in one section. It is unclear which is the references used in this article. There is no inline citation, either. Thus the content of this article does not pass WP:V principle, because it cannot be verified.
# This article has never been nominated in the Good Articles candidate page. Correct me if I'm wrong for this statement, as I looked at the history of this talk page that there is no nomination template prior the GA template. I just realized that this was the old GA nomination scheme.
Any objections can be raised in WP:GA/R page. — Indon (reply) — 15:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delisted from GA 

message: I have removed this for the second time. Everything here is unsourced, and some of it does not seem to be true. The discussion of texture in particular is problematic; googling on the terminology in it returned no hits. Please do not reintroduce this material without providing citations. Mangoe 03:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've left a message with that section's author User talk:Nickboey22305 and we'll see what he says. Nunquam Dormio 10:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was pretty iffy. One glaring error was the absense of pollination as a factor in sugar content. Pollinator 13:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Apple as food" section removed 

message: Yhe introduction to this article is really bad. Why does the article not follow the manual of style, instead it goes straigh in with Other species that were previously thought to have made contributions to the genome.... Other species to what? Surely the correct way to begin an article is: An apple is the fruit of... I have tagged the article as requiring attention. The introduction is seriously bad. Alun 09:59, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Introduction