Talk:Hawiye

message: The Hawiye are the largest population in East Africa  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.145.170.196 (talk) 09:17, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

message: There have been a number of back-and-forth edits regarding which Somali clan is the largest (e.g. Darod or Hawiye). I haven't been able to come up with any good numbers, myself, but I did cite a couple of sources. This didn't seem to help with the back-and-forth edits. However, in the absence of other citations I will continue to revert to a version that includes them. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 18:51, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That text cites its source.  Can you explain how you think this should be corrected, and provide a different source to support it? Thanks, -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 23:30, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Please note that we can't cite blogs, like the operationoverload.wordpress.com site – better to cite the book from which this was obtained (). In any case, you haven't really demonstrated why the "Ram Nag" information is wrong (other than offering your own word about it).  I don't know if it's correct or not, but it is sourced (which is what Wikipedia policy is concerned about).  Here is exactly what it says: "Dir, the father-in-law of Darod, is said to be the uncle of Esa Madoba and brother of Hawiya Irrir, who founded the Esa tribe of Zeila and the Hawiya of Somalia respectively.  Ram Nag, the great-grandfather of Dir, and Samarone the patriarch of the Gadabursi, are of unknown origin, but probably Arabians who landed at Zeila." (It's only a limited preview so I had to search Google a couple of different ways , ).  That said, it does appear to be a footnote and/or part of an Appendix, so I can't tell what the entire context is. For now, at least, we can flag the text in question. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 17:09, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

text: P.S. Note also that I. M. Lewis mentions Ram Nag, but curiously cites Hunt as saying Ram Nag was Hindu ().  Hunt (assuming it's the same author) speculated Ram Nag was Arabian, at least in the source that we've cited. Again, though, I have flagged the statement in question. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 17:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that the complaints may have more to do with ideology than with sourcing (viz. "its very much an insult coming from the arab darod clans who lately find out the only real Soomaali people are hawiye whit direct Ancestor of Iirir Samaale  who are related to  Galla and oromo People"). As discussed at length by the linguist Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi on pages 12-16 of his book , it's actually the Herbert Lewis theory above that's the dubious, newfangled one as to the origins of certain Somali clans. The clan genealogy cited in this wiki article is primarily based on an official survey by the colonial administration in British Somaliland, not on private convictions or speculation. As such, I don't think it's dubious. The notion that Ram Nag may have instead been of Indian extraction is also another common account (e.g. ). A third, less common account, is that Ram Nag was of Abyssinian background  (I.M. Lewis talks a bit about this as well in that book linked to above ). Also, please note that the wiki passage states that Ram Nag is the supposed great-grandfather of the Hawiye's progenitor, not that he himself is the clan's immediate forefather. The latter would still be the Hawiya Irrir that the user above refers to. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:56, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you, I believe  ("According to an official Military Survey…") was an important clarification. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 21:23, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Yes, the Hawiye indeed traditionally did not inhabit British Somaliland. However, per I.M. Lewis, the Military Survey in question was conducted in 1945 . That was during the British military administration of both British Somaliland and Italian Somaliland (where the Hawiye did live), just prior to the start of the Trusteeship period . Further, Ram Nag is held to be the father of Zumali/Samale (c.f. , ). And Zumali/Samale, I think you'll concede, is believed to be the founding father of many Somali clans, including the Dir and Hawiye clans. If you know of a reliable source that disputes Ram Nag's association with Hawiya Irir, please cite it. I reckon it would take some doing though since that would also involve disassociating Ram Nag from his putative son, Zumali/Samale. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 11:52, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

text: (As this is part of the same discussion it really belongs in this section. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 16:24, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I think you meant to place this in the previous section?  Actually, I didn't know that he is or is not Hawiye's ancestor.  That's the point of verifiability. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 22:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Please see WP:IKNOW, and if you haven't already, WP:V (which starts by saying: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true."). Thanks. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 16:24, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

text: The source mentions Dir and Hawiye were brothers, thus they would have the same great-grandfather.  And the text in question has already been re-worded to specify that this is all according to a military survey. Again, though, I.M. Lewis mentions Ram Nag as well.  Can you provide a reliable source, other than your personal knowledge, that refutes both Hunt and Lewis, and/or supports a different genealogy?  If not, I don't think we are going to get much further with this, though you might consider Wikipedia:Requests for comment. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 03:29, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

text: You asked, "Why do I have to supply reliable source?" That's Wikipedia policy, that's how things work around here.  So, again, can you provide a reliable source, other than your personal knowledge, that refutes both Hunt and Lewis, and/or supports a different genealogy?  For the record, I'm not the one who added the information in the first place.  As for the full quote, I did put that in the citation and it is visible down in the "References" section.  I'm not sure if there's a way to directly put it in the text without making it look clumsy. Perhaps re-word as follows: "Hawiya Irrir is held to be the brother of Dir, himself the great-grandson of Ram Nag" (I underlined the new part).  Otherwise, once again, you might consider Wikipedia:Requests for comment and try and get someone else's opinion. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 15:58, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

text: P.S. The context of the sentence is mentioning great-grandfathers, uncles, etc. so I can only deduce that its author meant "brother" in the biological sense. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Whoever added the content cited two sources to support it, and another editor has provided a third. Can you offer any source that refutes Hunt, Lewis, and Hassan Ali Jama; and/or supports a different genealogy? In the meantime, I'm updating the text to use the wording that I suggested (). -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 14:19, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Unless I have missed something, these are the first two reliable sources you have provided (other than, the Herbert Lewis source, to which Middayexpress already responded, and your own personal knowledge).  I think these could certainly be cited in the article, although I don't see how they refute the existing sources (just as the existing sources do not refute these, either).  In both cases they point to an Arabian ancestor. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 15:06, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Size

message: Digil and Mirifle clans who inhabit most of the Southern portion of Somalia are considered to be the largest clan all over Somalia. —the preceding unsigned comment is by 203.135.0.66 (talk • contribs) 18:22, 10 January 2006  (UTC)
:Is there a reference for it somewhere? Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 18:25, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, a reference would be helpful. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 21:41, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Digil and Mirifle Clans 

message: An anonymous editor had added the following:
:"The Hawiye population in east Africa is viewed on the whole 6-8 million people, 1.3 million in Somalia capital Mogadishu."
This really needs to cite a reference. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 22:04, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Population estimates

message: Darood is the largest Somali clan, however Hawiye is the biggest INSIDE Somalia. The Darood Subclan of Ogaden is probably bigger than half of Hawiye combined. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.152.13.117 (talk • contribs) 00:41, 16 February 2006  (UTC)
:It would be more helpful if you could cite a reliable source for this information. Also, I'm not sure what you mean in your second sentence; combined with what? Thanks, -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 05:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Darood is the largest

message: As with other articles regarding Somali clans, the list of subclans is becoming quite lengthy.  Can all of these be considered major subclans?  I think there should also be some actual threshold of notability for inclusion under "Notable Hawiye people."  For one, I have deleted the name of a mayor.  Unless this person is a notable mayor, or it's a particularly notable town, I don't think this warrants inclusion. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 17:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Apparently, Sheikhaal may or may not be a Hawiye subclan. This seems to be in dispute so I have tagged the listing accordingly . -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 17:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed

message: The information about the Hawiye subclans is now referenced and reliable, so the clean up tag could be removed.
S710 08:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone further and used footnotes. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 17:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean Up Tag could be removed

message: When reverting this article today I noticed that under "Notable Hawiye persons" it says Abdullahi Isse was UN Prime Minister. Now based on the info at List of notable Somali leaders, Somalia, here and here it looks as if there are two errors. It would appear that his name is Abdullahi Issa (with an "a") and he was the Somali Prime Minister "under the United Nations Trusteeship Administration". The way the sentence is now it makes it appear that Abdullahi Isse was Prime Minister of the United Nations and of course there is no such position. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 15:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Abdullahi Isse

message: I've removed the following reference because the source is unknown:
*Somalia Tribal Study, 2005, 
The URL is, apparently, for a hosting service, and the document itself does not identify its own author(s) nor publisher. I suspect it is a government document as it says "Unclassified" but a Google search doesn't provide any clues. We need to know the source in order to consider this a verifiable reference. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 16:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference needs source 

message: Within the past day or so, the population of Somalia purported to belong to the Hawiye clan has been changed from 25% to 45% then 40%. This map indicates 25% so in the absence of another verifiable source I will change it back to that figure. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 03:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population of Somalia 

message: I just found out that I'm Hawiye. I don't know whether that is cool or not considering that we are leading the resistance. But I don't think the numbers is correct. The mainpage is saying that there are 10 million Somalis in Somalia the country with the largest number of Somalis in the world. Thats including Arabs,other Africans and Europeans who live there. Should i change it to unknown? Furious Stormrage (talk) 17:32, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population number is to high 

message: I have trimmed the "Sub-clan listing" section, and changed it to "Clan tree".  The idea is to keep this kind of list manageable.  In this case, I have shown the clans one level down or one level up from this one.  See also Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Somalia#Clan lineage.  The other section, "Sons of Hawiye Irir", I am not sure about because the attributed source is not available to me.  I have a feeling that the current listing does not match (i.e., is longer) than what is presented in the source. I am going to tag the source as needing verification, but in any event, I think this list should be pared down (one level up, one level down) like I did with the other section. Thank you. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 19:30, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sub-clan listings 

message: *Murusade
**Sabti
***Cabdalle
***Habar-Idinle
  *Ayaansame,subclans
*Gumcadle
*Dumaal
*Geedi
*Xassangedef
*Odagaab
***Abakar
        subclans
*israfiil
*maxamuud codweyne
*Xussen codweyne
*siciidabakar
*
**Foolculus
***HabarCeyne
***Hilibi
*** Daguuro
maxamed 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Murusade 

message: ***Afgaab
***Suber
***Maamiye
***Cadowyar
***Ilaabe
***Ibrahim baadicade
***carayahan
***Quuriwaaye
***Samarob
***Haamud  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.62.85.169 (talk) 10:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [Baadicade] 

message: Please change the wording that  Hawiya Irrir is held to be the great-grandson of Ram Nag"
Dispute, Hawiye have nothing to do whit Ram nag. Ram Nag, is the great-grandfather of Dir, and Samarone the patriarch of the Gadabursi clan  and not Hawiye. 
The person  who edited  cited are misleading information, Dir, Samarone Clan   is not Hawiye clan   and you canot place once history to another.
Hawiye elders requested Ram nag to be removed, but since we dispute its advised the wording to be changed in the until we remove Ram Nag from Hawiye totally since Its not related to Hawiye people. 
Read here more to understand the situation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hawiye 
Please change the wording from Please change the wording that "  Hawiya Irrir is held to be the great-grandson of Ram Nag" 
to 
"Hawiya Irrir Samaale is held to be the brother of Dir, himself the great-grandson of Ram Nag"
Dir and Hawiye know they are not biological brothers but clan relationship brother hood. please remove Dir History from Hawiye.
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geele123 (talk • contribs) 14:32, 15 August 2011
*Comment: See #Ram Nag for current discussion. I will attempt to make this more succinct. The article currently cites three sources concerning Hawiye's (purported) relationship to Ram Nag. The person submitting the RfC doubts the veracity of this information and has requested that it be removed, and/or reworded. Note that I have already completed the re-wording (). -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 14:51, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Noleander, in the 6 years that I've been watching :Category:Somali clans articles, I've seen numerous edits like  and . Also,  here is one explanation that another Wikipedian offered (although, obviously, that is just one person's opinion). -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 14:41, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, so it looks like there is some pride underlying all this:  whose clan is largest or most important.   I suppose that doesn't directly affect this RfC, since WP has to reflect what the reliable sources say.  WP:Truth and all that.  Thanks. --Noleander (talk) 15:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC: Ram Nag 

message: adana cade= ciisa mudulood, axmedfiqi= harti abgaal, cali mahdi= harti abgaal, cali gedi=harti abgaal, xuseeyn kulmiye= waceesle, nuur cade wacbuudhan, shiikh shariif= harti abgaal,  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xoogsade 1 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  top of mudulood learders 

message: Hawiye do not live in Puntland. If you look at the sources from the Puntland Wikipedia article, you see that Puntland is inhabited by Harti, Leelkase and Meheri People. Hawiye live in a city called Gaalkacyo, divided up between the Northern Puntland and Southern Galmudug. http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTSOMALIA/Resources/conflictinsomalia.pdf 26oo (talk) 05:05, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The source in the article which is the same pdf as the one above quite clearly says Puntland. You need to find a source that says they don't live there. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 06:56, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Here are several sources including one from the Library of Congress.http://countrystudies.us/somalia/31.htmhttp://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Yv74WDpVrVgC&pg=PA98&dq=hawiye&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YoZET7QVhp_RBd_WsJUE&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=hawiye&f=falsehttp://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iMRf1RZ9zkAC&pg=PA44&dq=hawiye+live&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eYhET8iEMYyX0QW3sI2ZBA&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=hawiye%20live&f=falsehttp://www.asylumlaw.org/docs/somalia/ind01b_somalia_ca.pdf. The Darood clan lives in the Northern regions.http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pBR3UiGjqVcC&pg=PA7&dq=darood+lives&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UYlET7_aMsao0QWgkKGZBA&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=darood%20lives&f=false. This source shows you that the Majeerteen sub-clan of Harti which itself is a sub-clan of Darood controls Puntland State.http://www.asylumlaw.org/docs/united_states/Appendix%20N%20-%20Expert%20Affidavit.pdf 26oo (talk) 06:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to make the talk page references visible which I've done. If you remove the reference in the article then you need then you have to remove the clan listing as well. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 07:30, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hawiye in Puntland 

message: 41.138.10.124 (talk) 03:46, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 31 March 2012 

message: The "Notable Hawiye figures" section includes individuals whose respective articles don't even mention affiliation, or don't provide a source.  This first came up at Isaaq, and after cleaning up that article I was accused of bias for not addressing other Somali clan articles. Fair enough. WP:Source list definitely applies in these cases, and WP:BLP applies for many of them. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 05:34, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Hawiye figures 

message: == Hawadle ==
Dige Samatalis, 
Cabdalle Samatalis,
Faramage Samatalis (Reer Ugaas),
Abdi Yusuf Samatalis
 Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 23:14, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit request

message: # Mohamed hassan
: Not done: as you have not requested a specific change.If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 16:17, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2014 

message: 70.39.184.219 (talk) 13:43, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 13:51, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2015 

message: The CIA and Human Rights Watch report says Hawiye is somali largest clan in Somalia only but not in Ethiopia and Kenya. Darod is the largest somali clan across borders according to U.S. Department of Justice report "Hawiye (part of the Irir clan family) is probably the largest clan within Somalia, while Darood is the largest clan among all Somalis across borders."https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/eoir/legacy/2013/11/08/overview.pdf 
The book Commerce Raiding: Historical Case Studies, 1755-2009 edited by Bruce A. Elleman, Naval War College on page 260 and University of Texas map indicate Darood is the largest and geographically most widely distributed clan.https://books.google.com/books?id=hYHmNGDK714C&q=darood#v=snippet&q=darood&f=false . Commerce Raiding: Historical Case Studies, 1755-2009 . p260 http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/somalia_ethnic77.jpg . University of Texas
 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Libanguled (talk • contribs) 23:09, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hawiye is largest within somalia but Darood is largest across borders 

message: AwAqoonyahan (talk) 19:39, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: as that is not a semi-protected edit request, which is to ask for an amendment to this page.There was a page for Murusade until October 2009, when it was redirected here due to the large overlap and a lack of references - if you want to start such an article please use WP:Articles for creation - Arjayay (talk) 20:35, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 11 January 2017 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Hawiye's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Lee V. Cassanelli 1982":
From Hobyo: Lee V. Cassanelli, The shaping of Somali society, Philadelphia, 1982.
From Habar Gidir: Lee V. Cassanelli, The shaping of Somali society., Philadelphia, 1982,
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 13:34, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Hawiye]] 

message: I have read the primary sources for the statement of
"At the end of the 17th century, the Ajuran Empire was on its decline due to high taxation on none-Ajuran clans and the practice of primae noctis which was the prime reason why the Hawiye clan revolted against the Ajuran rulers and ever since this first revolt against the Ajuran other groups would follow in the rebellion which would eventually bring down Ajuran rule of the inter-riverine region"
And it says no such thing, might consider an edit.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.219.178.75 (talk) 03:43, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding the practice of "primae noctis" 

message: Murule is a clan under Jidle Gugundhabe Hawiye Irir Samaale (Somali) such that the ancestry is like this:
SAMALE
IRI
HAWIYE
GUGUNDHABE
JIDLE
MURULE
I don't see it listed under Hawiye clans...why?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dalahow (talk • contribs) 14:35, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  /* Murule */  

message: Abdiaziz Ali Farah- former mandera east member of parliament 2013- 2017. East African parliament nominee 2018. Current commissioner of national cohesion and integration commission since 2019. 41.81.76.17 (talk) 19:11, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Melmann 21:16, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 2 July 2021 

message: Historiantruth (talk) 02:38, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: Feel free to link to those sources here and reopen the request at that time  Cannolis (talk) 03:03, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2021 

message: I would like to add a sub-clan of Hawiye called baadicade as a sub-page under Hawiye page. NouhAbukar (talk) 20:21, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:34, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2022 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Hawiye's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "books.google.com":
From Google Books: 
From Dir (clan): 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 14:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Hawiye]] 

message: ku dar beesha hilibi darandoole hawiye Somaliwyne (talk) 05:25, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ji11720 (talk) 12:19, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2022 

message: Mr Honest Ali (talk) 20:24, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. - FlightTime (open channel) 20:26, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the English language Wikipedia.  - FlightTime (open channel) 20:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2023 

message: Mr Honest Ali (talk) 22:33, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me!  22:52, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2023