Talk:Battle of Mogadishu (1993)/Archive 1

message: The introduction and summary give 2 casualties for the Malaysian forces, but it's written just one near the end of the text.  Which one is correct?
Typical of the inherent racism surrounding such events that films & debates should be taking place about the negligible number of American (professional) soldiers killed, as against innocent civilians caught up in the terrible quagmire of Somali politics. --unknown
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Your own biases are clouding your judgment. Whereas it is true there were few US combatant casualties compared relatively to the estimated Somali casualties, you are assuming that   
   1. the Somali's involved were innocent
   2. the American soldiers were racist with disregard to Somali's, and were negligible casualties
Your emotions are closing your mind to the history and circumstances of the event. First, by both the US soldier's AND by the Somali militia's accounts, the Somali citizens willing shielded the militia troops to get them closer to firing at US personnel. By Somali militia's own accounts they covered the miltia with blankets and surrounded them in groups to allow them to approach US positions. Other accounts even described children firing on troops aswell as a Somali woman concealing a rifle under a wrapped baby. 
Although Americans may be appalled at these methods, the Somali's did not see anything wrong with the tactic. When interviewed, Somali's defended that there was no other way to confront the US soldiers whom they felt were the real threat to them, and that the soldiers fired back anyway. 
Obviously, Somali miltia and civilians are not expected to abide by Geneva conventions on warfare, although US and allied forces are held by them since they possess formal armies. And by Geneva convention, forces can fire upon any individual that poses a threat. As mobs of Somali civilians provided a human shield to militia that were firing on US soldiers, it was not considered an infraction to fire upon the crowd given their trapped situation. Point in case, when Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon were killed they were overrun by rioting Somali citizens who were also attacking the soldiers. 
The summary of this is that there is no question of whether Somali citizens participated in the battle, so they were clearly not "innocent".
Secondly, your prejudice against the US has blinded you to the reason why the US was even involved in Somalia, or the history leading up to the event. Somalia was suffering from both genocide and starvation due to the infighting of the warlords. The US intervened with both humanitarian aid and a security force of Marines. Later when responsiblity was transferred to the UN, both security forces and international aid workers were attacked including Pakistani troops that were mutilated in the open streets
The US responded by sending in Task Force Ranger to capture or kill the warlord they assumed was responsible for the attacks. Regardless, of whether or not you agree the US soldiers should have been present their mission was to ensure security and humanitarian aid for the region. There was no alterior motive as the region is poor in resources let alone stabilization. 
Finally, some may see 19 dead, 73 wounded as a small casualty rate, but it was enough to stir emotions in America as to end US involvement there. It is too easy for people not connected to the event(or any tragic event for that matter) to simply say only a few died. You might as well tell people that have lost a loved one, "the number of people that died were negligible". 
See how well they take that. --Acefox 19:49, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malaysian casualties 

message: The article lists the Battle of Mogadishu as also called the Battle of the Black Sea. I just wanted to check the source of where it is listed as such. Somalia is no where near the Black Sea (at least as it is known by most of the world). Unless the Somali's call the Indian Ocean the Black Sea?...--Acefox 30 June 2005 19:05 (UTC)
:The neighborhood in Mogadishu where the battle took place is known as "Black Sea". Ydorb June 30, 2005 21:04 (UTC)
::I was a bit dubious but a google search confirms this. Lisiate 02:39, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battle of the Black Sea? By whom?  

message: Just added the sections "Background to the Battle" and "Mission Shift", as well as a paragraph under "Consequences". Hope that it gives a good idea of the terrain that the men were operating in when the mission took place. Fergananim 23:06, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional revisions