Talk:History of the Ryukyu Islands

message: I added the POV tag because I think the vast majority of this article has a definite anti-Japanese tone to it, at times bordering on completely unbalanced polemic. Doubtless there are many negative things that can be said about Japanese treatment of Ryukyuans - however, it is obviously wrong for an encyclopaedia article to be used as an instrument of propaganda. The feel of reading propaganda can be mitigated by adding citations for a start.195.194.199.50 13:28, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you mind providing some examples of what you believe is POV?  Specifically, what do you believe is "bordering on completely unbalanced polemic"?  I think the article may seem anti-Japanese because the majority of the information provided concerns Japan/Okinawa relations; I think that if more Pre-Satsuma information were added, the article would maybe feel more balanced. Turly-burly 00:55, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: In my opinion the article is some times lacking a more distant point of view. There are too many "small stories" included, like the princess lillies, the baby in the cave and so on, without a comment about the meaning of such stories in a greater context. I would suggest to put them all together in a different section or to cut them out completely. But in general I really don`t have the feeling that this article has some propaganda agitations.--83.124.20.144 09:28, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Definitely so Jmlk17 07:44, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how you can go into the history of the Ryukyu Kingdom and *not* go into various abuses committed there. While I'll certainly agree that the rapes of US service members were largely blown out of proportion, the fact remains that the Okinawan people have been repeatedly subjudgated throughout their history. I realize I'm somewhat biased, however not referring to the events is akin to talking about the history of the Jews, without mentioning their various flights. EvilCouch 12:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, now I see some of what you guys were referring to. I've trimmed it up a bit to try to bring it back to a NPOV EvilCouch 13:07, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Removing tag.Johnvr4 (talk) 19:24, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV tag 

message: The "proposed merger" tag has been up for some time now.  As for me, I think the merger should happen.  There are too many "Ryukyu history" articles floating around, and I think it will confuse people.  I think that the "Ryukyu Kingdom" article can stand alone and be linked from this one as "See main article at", as long as its receives additional significant content concerning specifics.  It also needs to be headed with a disambiguation notice that immediately alerts the reader to the difference between the Ryukyu Islands, THE Ryukyu Kingdom (i.e. the power that united Okinawa and spurred significant cultural development), and historical kingdoms within the Ryukyu Islands (e.g., Chuzan and those of the outer islands).  The other article, History of the Ryukyu Kingdom, is a poorly-done rehash of Ryukyu Kingdom.  IF no one disapproves within the next week or so, I've the time and inclination to make the necessary edits and to add to this article concerning pre-Ryukyu Kingdom history. Turly-burly 00:29, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been ten days since I posted this call, and much longer since I posted the tag on the article page.  I'm going to begin the merger, but go a bit slowly, just in case.  Turly-burly 00:27, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Call for Merger 

message: I don't see what is POV about the "Tension with the U.S." section marked with a possible non-neutral tag.  I am removing said tag pending justification here. Turly-burly 15:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality? 

message: I've renamed this article from Ryukyuan history to Ryūkyūan history in accordance with the guidelines in the Manual of Style for Japanese articles. Bobo12345 11:57, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article renamed 

message: I deleted unsourced dubious claim by User:75.61.68.154.
:Incidents involving U.S. service personnel are reported with gleeful abandon by the Japanese and Okinawan media, particularly if the alleged perpetrator is African-American. By contrast, incidents of rape and vehicular manslaughter by members of Japan's own armed forces is carefully hushed up "for the national good". Okinawa's economic elite and Japanese government bureaucrats have been reported to have economic interests in the development of land currently occupied by U.S. military facilities. 
It is at least true that the rape incidents involving U.S. service personnel (or any foreigners) are reported heavily in Japan, but the race of the alleged perpetrator hardly matters. In fact, Japanese/Okinawan media do not report the race, other than they are "American".   Also, they do report the crimes by JSDF personnel as well.   Many Japanese media (such as Asahi Shimbun) are liberal, while two Okinawan newspapers (Ryukyu Shimpo and Okinawa Times) are even more leftist. They wouldn't lose any chances to bash JSDF. After all, Japanese government bureaucrats do not control the media. If they did, then they would do their best to hush up the crimes by US personnel; it's them who serve the bases in Okinawa, thus serving the US-Japan Mutual Treaty which Japanese government believes is vital for the nation. Kzaral (talk) 21:15, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese media coverage of the crime incidents

message: Can we change this to "History of the Ryukyu Islands"? Just like in the examples of "the United States", "the British Isles", "the Japanese archipelago", the "the" in "the Ryukyu Islands" is necessary for grammatical accuracy and linguistic smoothness. LordAmeth (talk) 17:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: The list should probably be trimmed. Personalities (or "notables" as they are called elsewhere) must be famous outside the Ryukyus to be notable at this level. Note that they may still be notable at the local (city) level. So a "governor" of the Ryukyus cannot be "notable" here. Many people were governor. All Prefectures have governors.
This does not stop anyone from working these people into the article, where appropriate. Student7 (talk) 10:59, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how Teruya and Bettelheim are significant outside the Ryukyus. They seem notable only to the Ryukyus, which is why IMO, they should be deleted from here and inserted in a prefecture article. Also, how significant are Christian missionaries? What percentage of Ryukyans are Christian today? Student7 (talk) 12:39, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Personalities

message: In order for there to a) have some limit and b) be readable, notables have to be limited as you go up the line. If they merely accumulated, there would be 100,000 notables at the "Japan" level. They would not be scanable and would be impossible to maintain. Therefore people within any article must be notable outside that place. Therefore, not all mayors would go into the notables of a city (might be a separate list for mayors, but that's not important here).
Someone added "Keisai Aoki was a Japanese missionary who virtually paved the way to the establishment of Hansen's disease sanatorium Okinawa Airakuen Sanatorium, Okinawa, Japan. At age 16, he contracted leprosy and later, under the leadership of Hannah Riddell, he helped people with leprosy in Okinawa." The question arises, "Was he notable outside the Ryukyus?" If so, then he remains. But if he was notable only within the Ryukyus, then he would be placed in the Prefecture and city, but not here. 
Also, BTW, these are not extended resumes. They are one-liners so as not to detract from the article which is about a place not people. Student7 (talk) 01:21, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Criteria for inclusion

message: * I renamed this article from "History of the Ryukyu Islands" to "History of Okinawa Prefecture." The scope of this article is Okinawa Prefecture. For the history of a broader region, see the history section of Ryukyu Islands, which I have substantially expanded.
* I removed the supposed Shuri-Naha dialect name ウチナー県 as it is unattested. It was added by  and reinstated by .
* I removed Cantonese readings added by . Historians use modern names for the sake of convenience and linguists use reconstructed pronunciations (e.g. Late Middle Chinese). Cantonese is totally useless.
* The entire contents have serious problems. Other Wikipedians above only note modern history, but pre-modern history is also terrible. I only made minor copyedits for now. I will come back later.
--Nanshu (talk) 14:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some notes 

message: Put the old accounts in wikisource or further reading.
Vocabulary of the language spoken at the Great Loo-Choo island in the Japan Sea By Herbert John Clifford
http://books.google.com/books?id=KYJG21ajeUQC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Narrative of a Voyage to the Pacific and Beering's Strait: To Co-operate with the Polar Expeditions: Performed in His Majesty's Ship Blossom, Under the Command of Captain F.W. Beechey ... in the Years 1825, 26, 27, 28 ...  By Frederick William Beechey
http://books.google.com/books?id=2Nduy93hZngC&pg=PA149&dq=loochoo+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wM1-Uo_YN8W64APJv4GICg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=loochoo%20language&f=false
Life in the Luchu Islands (1899)
https://archive.org/details/lifeinluchuislan00furn
The Loochoo islands (1905)
https://archive.org/details/cu31924023514643
Voyage to Loo-Choo, and other places in the eastern seas, in the year 1816. Including an account of Captain Maxwell's attack on the batteries at Canton; and notes of an interview with Buonaparte at St. Helena, in August 1817 (1826)
https://archive.org/details/voyagetoloochoo00hallgoog
https://archive.org/details/voyagetoloochooo00hallrich
https://archive.org/details/voyagetoloochooo01halluoft
My last cruise; or, where we went and what we saw: being an account of visits to the Malay and Loo-Choo Islands, the coasts of China, Formosa, Japan, Kamtschatka, Siberia, and the mouth of the Amoor River (1857)
https://archive.org/details/mylastcruiseorw01habegoog
https://archive.org/details/mylastcruiseorw02habegoog
The Japan expedition. Japan and around the world; an account of three visits to the Japanese empire, with sketches of Madeira, St. Helena, cape of Good Hope, Mauritius, Ceylon, Singapore, China, and Loo-Choo (1855)
https://archive.org/details/cu31924023219722
https://archive.org/details/japanexpedition00spalgoog
https://archive.org/details/japanexpeditionj01spal
Odonates recueillis aux iles Loo-Choo, par feu M. Pr
https://archive.org/details/cbarchive_123213_odonatesrecueillisauxileslooch1864
Journal of an Expedition from Sincapore to Japan: With a Visit to Loo-Choo, Descriptive of These ... (1838)
https://archive.org/details/journalanexpedi00parkgoog
Narrative of a Voyage to Java, China, and the Great Loo-Choo Island: With Accounts of Sir Murray ... (1865)
https://archive.org/details/narrativeavoyag00hallgoog
Voyage to Corea, and the island of Loo-Choo (1820)
https://archive.org/details/voyagetocoreaan00hallgoog
My last cruise; or, where we went and what we saw: being an account of visits to the Malay and Loo-Choo Islands, the coasts of China, Formosa, Japan, Kamtschatka, Siberia, and the mouth of the Amoor River (1857)
https://archive.org/details/mylastcruiseorwh00habe
https://archive.org/details/mylastcruiseorwh01habe
https://archive.org/details/northpacificsurv00haberich
Journal of an expedition from Sincapore to Japan, with a visit to Loo-Choo; descriptive of these islands and their inhabitants; in an attempt with the aid of natives educated in England, to create an opening for missionary labours in Japan (1838)
https://archive.org/details/39002086452134.med.yale.edu
Hall's voyages (1826)
https://archive.org/details/hallsvoyages01hallrich
https://archive.org/details/hallsvoyages03hallrich
https://archive.org/details/hallsvoyages01hall
https://archive.org/details/hallsvoyages02hall
https://archive.org/details/hallsvoyages03hall
Account of a voyage of discovery to the west coast of Corea, and the great Loo-Choo island : with an appendix, containing charts, and various hydrographical and scientific notices (1818)
https://archive.org/details/accountofvoyageo00hall
https://archive.org/details/accountavoyaged00clifgoog
https://archive.org/details/accountofavoyage29051gut
Secondary mentions
http://books.google.com/books?id=sVY9AQAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA2&dq=luchu+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ns5-UuvuH6bE4AP58YD4DQ&ved=0CDQQ6wEwAA#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=6EbOAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA2&dq=luchu+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ns5-UuvuH6bE4AP58YD4DQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=8GMFAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA174&dq=luchu+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ns5-UuvuH6bE4AP58YD4DQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=o0EOAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA99&dq=luchu+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ns5-UuvuH6bE4AP58YD4DQ&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZyYqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA99&dq=luchu+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ns5-UuvuH6bE4AP58YD4DQ&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=fKdBAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA535&dq=luchu+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ns5-UuvuH6bE4AP58YD4DQ&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=whBTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA99&dq=luchu+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ns5-UuvuH6bE4AP58YD4DQ&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=lyAQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA307&dq=luchu+language++supplement&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yc5-UpmKHcXJ4AP2woHgCw&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language%20%20supplement&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=6EbOAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA2&dq=luchu+language++supplement&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yc5-UpmKHcXJ4AP2woHgCw&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language%20%20supplement&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=sVY9AQAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA2&dq=luchu+language++supplement&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yc5-UpmKHcXJ4AP2woHgCw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language%20%20supplement&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=Q3gYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA282&dq=loochooan+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WNB-UtO-CMe34AOG24G4Bg&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=loochooan%20language&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=UG3QHpMrfo8C&pg=PA282&dq=loochooan+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WNB-UtO-CMe34AOG24G4Bg&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA
https://archive.org/details/ConcerningJapaneseOrigins_215
Modern
http://books.google.com/books?id=U-f_lylDECkC&pg=PT235&dq=luchu+language++supplement&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yc5-UpmKHcXJ4AP2woHgCw&ved=0CFkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language%20%20supplement&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=vaAKJQyzpLkC&pg=PA497&dq=luchu+language++supplement&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yc5-UpmKHcXJ4AP2woHgCw&ved=0CEUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=luchu%20language%20%20supplement&f=false
Modern studies on Ryukyuan language
http://books.google.com/books?id=8guTfpBKm5kC&printsec=frontcover&dq=okinawa+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3Mt-UqH2H4PD4AOBi4DYAw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=okinawa%20language&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=hAss0HdHS3gC&pg=PA181&dq=okinawa+language&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3Mt-UqH2H4PD4AOBi4DYAw&ved=0CEgQ6wEwAw#v=onepage&q=okinawa%20language&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 15:34, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old western accounts of Ryukyu 

message: http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps07_093.pdf
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1317152
05:25, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ryukyu's tribute to China when the Yongle Emperor was in power 

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=AMtjAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=8P9JAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=_o4_AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=eqQOX78e93MC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=wkYNAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
07:47, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old primary sources for further reading 

message: Page 324
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZNxIAQAAIAAJ&q=The+President+then+referred+to+the+question+of+the+Ryukyu+Islands+and+enquired+more+than+once+whether+China+would+want+the+Ryukyus.+The+Generalissimo+replied+that+China+would+be+agreeable+to+joint+occupation+of+the+Ryukyus+by+China+and+the+United+State&dq=The+President+then+referred+to+the+question+of+the+Ryukyu+Islands+and+enquired+more+than+once+whether+China+would+want+the+Ryukyus.+The+Generalissimo+replied+that+China+would+be+agreeable+to+joint+occupation+of+the+Ryukyus+by+China+and+the+United+State&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eqIJU8XWJ6WEygGt0YHADg&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA
http://books.google.com/books?ei=eqIJU8XWJ6WEygGt0YHADg&id=ZNxIAQAAIAAJ&dq=The+President+then+referred+to+the+question+of+the+Ryukyu+Islands+and+enquired+more+than+once+whether+China+would+want+the+Ryukyus.+The+Generalissimo+replied+that+China+would+be+agreeable+to+joint+occupation+of+the+Ryukyus+by+China+and+the+United+State&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=enquired+want
Page 324
http://books.google.com/books?id=is4WAAAAYAAJ&q=The+President+then+referred+to+the+question+of+the+Ryukyu+Islands+and+enquired+more+than+once+whether+China+would+want+the+Ryukyus.+The+Generalissimo+replied+that+China+would+be+agreeable+to+joint+occupation+of+the+Ryukyus+by+China+and+the+United+State&dq=The+President+then+referred+to+the+question+of+the+Ryukyu+Islands+and+enquired+more+than+once+whether+China+would+want+the+Ryukyus.+The+Generalissimo+replied+that+China+would+be+agreeable+to+joint+occupation+of+the+Ryukyus+by+China+and+the+United+State&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eqIJU8XWJ6WEygGt0YHADg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ
http://books.google.com/books?ei=eqIJU8XWJ6WEygGt0YHADg&id=is4WAAAAYAAJ&dq=The+President+then+referred+to+the+question+of+the+Ryukyu+Islands+and+enquired+more+than+once+whether+China+would+want+the+Ryukyus.+The+Generalissimo+replied+that+China+would+be+agreeable+to+joint+occupation+of+the+Ryukyus+by+China+and+the+United+State&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=question+Ryukyu+enquired+want
http://www.asianewsnet.net/news-36903.html
http://cpri.tripod.com/cpr1999/ryukyu.html
Rajmaan (talk) 07:45, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Republic of China and America on Okinawa during World War II 

message: I've noticed that the infobox from Okinawa Prefecture was basically copied and pasted to this article, as evidenced by the Okinawa Prefecture symbol being called "Symbol of History of the Ryukyu Islands". I don't think that this infobox is appropriate for this article. I'm going to create a temporary sandbox to build a new infobox if anyone would like to hep. ミーラー強斗武 (talk) 17:39, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: History of the Ryukyu Islands/Temporary sandbox ミーラー強斗武 (talk) 19:06, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Template:History of Ryukyu ミーラー強斗武 (talk) 19:22, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Okinawa Prefecture infobox 

message: Hi, all. I feel that the post-war history (and really the entire article) needs a rewrite.
I'll divide the post war occupation section into
*Ryukyus under American Occupation, discussing Okinawa under USCAR
*Reversion discussing the Okinawa reversion process
*Post-Reversion, discussing recent and relatively recent (post 1972) events in Okinawa
I'd definitely like to see more reliable sources in use. 
Kdbeall (talk) 21:11, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revising post-war history 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110220193607/http://ejournal.anu.edu.au/index.php/bippa/article/viewFile/690/654 to http://ejournal.anu.edu.au/index.php/bippa/article/viewFile/690/654
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060305195525/http://www.msoworld.com/mindzine/news/orient/go/history/okinawa1.html to http://www.msoworld.com/mindzine/news/orient/go/history/okinawa1.html
*Added archive https://archive.is/20070926223809/http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=5870 to http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=5870
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080217224143/http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/02/13/japan.rape/index.html to http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/02/13/japan.rape/index.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "This article is about the history of the Ryukyu Islands" is self-evident from the article's title. If you don't like my edit, then please provide a better lead. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 06:34, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead