Talk:Charles Baudelaire

message: The authors may want to mention how he went from having a mother that married a military officer, to having "guardians" and a "small inheritance". Did his mom die?  At what age? This needs more development.  Baudelaire is one of the most anti-female writers of all time and his formative years should have some coverage of this.
Stevenmitchell 23:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree wholeheartedly. I wonder if someone could translate http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Baudelaire That would be ideal. P.Riis 23:19, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Re: Baudelaire's interest in Eastern religions, here is a quote from one of his Belgian letters, for what it's worth: 
"I shall write a detailed chronicle of all the reasons why I hate humanity.
When I finally reach *perfect solitude*, I shall find for myself some
religion (Tibetan or Japanese), for my scorn of the Koran is too great, and
thus make clear my disgust towards universal stupidity."''
(My poor translation into English from a Finnish edition of his Belgian letters, "Kurja Belgia!".)--Snowgrouse (talk) 20:50, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I'm sure they were just venting their spleen. --BadSeed 05:01, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Thanks for noticing that. Manet in fact painted Music in the Tuileries in which Baudelaire, Gautier and Offenbach (among others) are depicted. I've just changed the painting's title in the sentence, but feel free to reword it if you want. Thanks, Korg (talk) 21:38, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Miscellaneous discussion

message: The "mulatto woman" referred to in the article went by the name of Jeanne Duval, and according to most sources, she was Baudelaire's lover for many years. 
Most people aren't aware of this, but "mulatto" is a rather dehumanizing and racist term in English. Folks who are biracial don't appreciate being referred to by this term, as it derives from a Spanish word meaning "mule" []. 
Also, it renders Duval invisible within the life of her legendary partner. She had to be pretty important to Baudelarie seeing as he dedicated several poems to her ("La Chevelure," "Parfum exotique"---part of the "Black Venus" cycle of love poems). The invisibility of female paramours of famous men is a common oversight in history, but for women of color in love with white men, this oversight is even more true. --Pinko1977 04:49, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think "mixed-race woman" is an improvement. Cf. "Charles Pierre Baudelaire (pronounced /ˈboʊdəlɛər/; French pronounced [ʃaʁl bodlɛʁ]) (April 9, 1821 – August 31, 1867) was an influential white nineteenth century French poet, critic and acclaimed translator." The Duval sentence can just go, since Duval is mentioned (and linked) earlier in the article, right?   Cyrusc (talk) 16:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Mulatto woman" 

message: I quite agree that this article is pretty disgraceful.  At the moment it gives the impression of having been mostly written by a not very literate teenager with an interest in death metal.  I've tried to make a start by completely replacing the Influence section with something a bit more scholarly; it's not at all comprehensive but it's a start.  It seems to me that the Trivia section is actually the best bit, as it conveys a pretty good idea of the kind of debased image of Baudelaire that exists in popular culture.  Of course, Baudelaire was a bit of a ham, he really did dress completely in black and he really was interested in Satanism, but his importance and his genius need to be given some sort of informed recognition as well.
Anyway, when I get round to it I'll wikify the sources in the new Notes section.  I can at least confirm that the publishing details and page numbers etc. are accurate, I triple-checked them.
Lexo 17:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This was changed by User:Emiliopucci ; I've reverted it. Thank you! Korg (talk) 18:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite of entire article 

message: The trivia section is out of control. Is the point really to mention everybody who's ever mentioned the subject of the article?
:I was bold and removed the Trivia section in its entirety.  Its main issue, aside from being a bloated list of indiscriminate information including every small mention of Baudelaire's name, is that the trivia had nothing to do with Baudelaire himself.  Trivia sections are also highly discouraged in Biography articles (see WP:TRIVIA), and it was already tagged that the information should be integrated into the rest of the article, which, because it was 99% irrelevant, could not have been done.  The article can now focus on writing and sourcing info about Baudelaire's life and achievements and perhaps in the future the issue of "Baudelaire in Popular Culture" can be brought up again.  María (habla conmigo) 18:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: Considering the very direct influence that Baudelaire's poetry had upon T. S. Eliot, I believe it's fair to add him to the list of writers that Baudelaire influenced. As anyone who's read any of Eliot's poetry knows, Eliot alluded quite blatantly to Baudelaire's works on numerous occasions (the last quarter or so of the first section of The Waste Land, "'The Burial of the Dead", borrows heavily from Les Fleurs du mal) and has written on the topic of Baudelaire's articulation of the modern condition (ennui, anomie) as well as on Baudelaire's particular attitude toward spirituality. SumeragiNoOnmyouji 23:01, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Influence

message: I've read but the first 25 pages of Baudelaire by Jean-Paul Sartre, a biography, and a psychoanalysis of his personality, and I'm convinced that he would have met the diagnostic criteria for schizoid personality disorder at least once during his lifetime (by Jean-Paul Sartre's analysis). It seems pretty obvious to me, but I'm a bit surprised to find that this link hasn't been drawn anywhere else. Ironically, there is a book called The Schizoid World of Jean-Paul Sartre and R.D. Lang. 
Also, Sartre's Baudelaire may be a good source for this article. MichaelExe (talk) 01:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sartre’s book on Baudelaire contains many subjective speculations and cannot be considered as being informative about the French poet. Sartre depicted Baudelaire as a detached dandy who thought that nature was hideous and evil. This was in total contrast to the engaged Marxist that Sartre was, himself, trying to become in 1946. Therefore, the book is valuable as a document in the development of Sartre's life, but not as data about Baudelaire. Sartre’s guesses about the content of Baudelaire’s inner thoughts are preposterous; yet he proclaims them in dogmatic fashion as though he could read the mind of a man who died 100 years earlier. Sartre’s book is very interesting but it is not suitable as a source on Baudelaire.98.110.35.39 (talk) 23:12, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

text: It depends on whether Sartre himself made that conclusion in his book (I actually own it, but have yet to read it so unfortunately I don't know). Even then it would only be Sartres conclusion, not the generally accepted theory, so it would have to be clarified that it was Sartre who thought that. But yes it could be notable to mention that Sartre wrote a book about Baudelaire, although I am not sure it is thought of as one of the authoritative books on the subject anymore, I would guess more the authoritative book on how Sartre perceived Baudelaire, which is of course interesting in itself. --Saddhiyama (talk) 08:44, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Schizoid Personality Disorder]] 

message: I was looking for more information about "The Painter of Modern Life" but didn't see much at all on this page.  Considering the impact that essay had on the development of art in the last half of the 19th century and into the 20th century, I expected more.  I'm far from an expert -- more familiar indirectly with its impact -- but I would like to request that someone who is more familiar with Baudelaire's art criticism please include more information here and please give "The Painter of Modern Life" its own page.134.224.220.1 (talk) 16:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I only just saw this.  I just created the article, "The Painter of Modern Life". Viriditas (talk) 02:52, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: The Painter of Modern Life

message: I added this link to another online collection of Baudelaire translations. Since I am the author of said translations, I figured I'd give fair warning here to avoid COI. If it seems like shameless self-promotion, feel free to remove it. Szfski (talk) 11:17, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ex links 

message: I hope I have given you some space to operate in. (Had I felt bold I'd have deleted everything).
A lot of people have found Baudelaire to be a particularly exciting writer. 
I invite to you all to shorten the article further and most importantly to add interesting things such as discussion of the themes of poetry, his innovations - why people have found him so exciting - and perhaps also a mention of modern Baudelaire scholarship.
Many thanks.33gsd (talk) 00:19, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please renovate ! 

message: Hello. This isn't a question to improve this article, but another on Symbolism in which I'm quoting Baudelaire. Could somebody please confirm whether or not the essay that this article mentions, "Richard Wagner et Tannhäuser à Paris" is the one he wrote in 1861? I only have quotation via a secondary source that doesn't name the article, but gives the year. Many thanks, DionysosProteus (talk) 18:28, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Richard Wagner et ''Tannhäuser'' à Paris 

message: A lot of this article consists of Baudelaire quotes. However, since Baudelaire was often deliberately provocative and cruel for the sake of it, these quotes don't necessarily give us a complete picture of what he really thought. I suggest we add some biographical information from his correspondence and from his contemporaries to give a better idea of what his attitudes really were like. I don't mean whitewashing him, of course, just a broader view based on more than just his bitterest quips. For instance, he would make jokes about torturing cats and loving the sound of their pained shrieking, when it was well-established that he was a major cat lover and wrote adoring poems about them (and often had more sympathy for animals than his fellow humans). Above all, many biographers have remarked he was a man of contradictions and dualities (and Baudelaire referred to these dualities himself, such as when he said he was always trapped between the ecstasy of life and the utter terror of life). Some biographer (I momentarily forget who--it may have been the Finnish Kupiainen) even described him as a "homo duplex", a man divided in two, and said that to assess Baudelaire by his poetry alone (forgetting his correspondence and contemporary accounts of him) would reduce him to a "homo simplex", a man only known for his bitterness and love for the macabre and the demonic. When, of course, he was also a seeker of refinement, order, purity and the divine. So it'd be great if we could include both sides here for a more balanced, rounded view.--Snowgrouse (talk) 21:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further discussion/explanations needed 

message: the tomb showing in the picture at the bottom of this article is not charles baudelaire's grave.
this is probably a monument dedicated to his memory.
Baudelaire lies along with his mother and step father, his name barely mentionned amongst the recollections of honors gained by the latter as a civil servant.
http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/images/baudelaire1.JPG
one look at this grave and you can see baudelaire didnt die a national hero, far from it  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.47.52.96 (talk) 13:52, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  the grave 

message: Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that :File:Étienne Carjat, Portrait of Charles Baudelaire, circa 1862.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on January 30, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-01-30. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:11, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:File:Étienne Carjat, Portrait of Charles Baudelaire, circa 1862.jpg]] to appear as POTD 

message: Substituted at 11:17, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Perhaps there can be a mention of the popular children's series A Series of Unfortunate Events, as the story revolves around the Baudelaire family and their children (This is a reference to the poet- the series has many, including a character by the name of Allen Poe) BetweenCupsOfTea (talk) 14:20, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: And what does this have to do with the Wikipedia article? Can your claims be cited? If so, please add it to the main article. Otherwise, what is the value of you posting this here? --Giacomo1968 (talk) 14:10, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles Baudelaire 

message: Hi can add Baudelaire's philosophical influences (like Joseph de Maistre and Edgar Allan Poe), just like other great philosophers have on their wiki page? Tjerkvermaning (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  influences 

message: also
Un voyage à Cythère for Soprano and 10 Instruments, Op. 20 (1966) by American composer and pianist Easley Blackwood Jr. 104.200.204.220 (talk) 19:49, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musical interpretations