Talk:Advancement and recognition in the Boy Scouts of America/Archive 1

message: Since each rank has it's own page, this article duplicates those articles.
Should we:
*Delete this article, merging the content into the individual articles
*Delete the individual articles, merging their content into this one
*Delete the individual articles except for Eagle, merging their content into this one
--Gadget850 20:08, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the individual ranks are generally not encyclopedic and do not deserve their own articles.  (I think we can make an exception for the Eagle rank, because it's something of an institution with importance beyond the arcana of BSA rank advancement.)  However, I don't think that there needs to be an article on BSA ranks, because the section at Boy Scouts of America is probably sufficient.  Even this article could easily be moved to Wikisource. --Smack (talk) 02:10, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement

message: I propose that this article be split and merged into:
*:Scout rank (Boy Scouts of America)
*:Tenderfoot Scout rank (Boy Scouts of America)
*:Second Class Scout rank (Boy Scouts of America)
*:First Class Scout rank (Boy Scouts of America)
*:Star Scout rank (Boy Scouts of America)
*:Life Scout rank (Boy Scouts of America)
This will allow other information such as history and the like.
--Gadget850 21:31, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm still not convinced that the individual ranks deserve their own articles.  We could make an umbrella article for all seven, or maybe split out Eagle and combine the other six. --Smack (talk) 18:57, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm wavering both ways.  Eagle Scout deserves it's own article.  The rank links at the bottom of each individual page is pretty neat, but not necessarily a reason to keep them.  I suppose we could tighten up the requirements (they are rather detailed for this article) and add a bit of history.  I probably won't start anything major here for a week or so, as I will be traveling.  I have a few minor things to add.   --Gadget850 19:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Long article layout advises against splitting medium-length articles into stubs.  I don't think that these articles (with the exception of Eagle) can ever be more than stubs.  It's not helpful to look at them in isolation; they only make sense as part of the progression of rank advancement.  As for the requirements, I copied them verbatim from my Boy Scout Handbook, several years ago, assuming that they have some value in that form.  They should probably be moved to Wikisource, or deleted altogether for copyright reasons.  An exegetic treatment would be helpful. --Smack (talk) 22:04, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved the requirements to the separate articles, and have simplified them: there is no need for the level of detail.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Split & merge

message: As I get into the gestalt of the whole advancement program, I can see that as a whole, this is not going to work as one article.  Here are some thoughts:
*Move the new sections I wrote here and move them to the parent article.
:For example, copyList of BSA rank requirements#Cub Scouts to Cub Scouts (Boy Scouts of America)
*Take the separate rank articles and combine them into one (it's just going to be too long to fit in the parent article).  Use the section as the lead-in.  Take the requirements for each rank and really simplify them- get rid of the bullets.
:For example, create Advancement in Cub Scouts (Boy Scouts of America), use the section from here as the lead, and combine Tiger through Webelos and Arrow of Light, and add the Academic and Sports Program.
*Create main articles for each of the other award categories, and fold the sub-articles into it.
:For example, create Service awards in the Boy Scouts of America.  Fold the short DESA and Silver Buffalo articles into it.
*We might just want a List of awards and recognition in the Boy Scouts of America to use as an overall view of things.
--Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:51, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to me you have a great grasp of this.  I'll likely like what you come up with. Just my 2 cents.Rlevse 12:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement 3

message: Can someone please provide some advice - the Varsity and Venturing information on this page is also covered on Venturing (Boy_Scouts_of_America) and Varsity Scouts.  I have tried to keep the information consistent across these pages, but it is definitely redundant AND it runs the risk of being edited on one article but not the other.  How is a better way to do that?  NThurston 18:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Put a msg on Gadget850's talk page.  He knows more about this than the rest of us. Rlevse 19:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks.  I think I can get something that will work. NThurston 22:11, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Coordination with other pages

message: The lead needs expanding. Rlevse 13:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK now.Rlevse 17:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Attention tag

message: As I had hoped, once this material was consolidated, it began to grow, and many individual articles have been created.  Where do we go with this article now?
* Move the Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting and Venturing sections to the respective articles (any bits that are not already there) and leave a short overview and a list of awards here.
* Encourage the creation of good individual articles.
* Encourage the creation of good group articles where it makes more sense; for example, the Cub Scout leader awards have so much in common that they would work best as a group article.
* As articles are created, shrink the entry here to a commented list entry.
I welcome more thoughts on this.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where do we go now... 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Medal of Merit.png

message: The image :Image:Cub Scout leader awards.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Cub Scout leader awards.png

message: Isn't this section just a duplicate of the Community Organization Awards list?  --Jdurbach 14:17, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I cleaned out the duplicate stuff.  The awards left are certificates- do we really need this? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:35, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a gazillion local certificates and awards— lets keep this limited to nationally available awards. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 05:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Awards from other organizations

message: * Doctorate of Commissioner Science Award
* Philmont Training Masters Award
---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 15:15, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New awards 

message: The "Cubmaster Award will become the Cubmaster’s Key and use the Scouter’s Key knot. The Cub Scouter and Pack Trainer Awards will use the Scouter’s Training Award knot. The Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Den Leader’s Awards will use the Den Leader’s Award knot."
The Venturing Leadership Award will no longer be available for adults.
---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 14:48, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes for 2012 

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*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080303193718/http://www.scouting.org:80/Venturing/Awards/silver.aspx to http://www.scouting.org/Venturing/Awards/silver.aspx
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