Talk:Halloween/Archive 4

message: I have noticed a user has added a Bonaire section to this article, which is WAY too narrow (Bonaire is a Caribbean island with under 50,000 people). I think Halloween customs would not vary to that great of an extent from island to island, so I guess we could broaden it to "Caribbean", which is slightly more professional. Badlands17 03:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that wouldn't work. There's more diversity in the Caribbean than you give us credit for. I know that here in St. Vincent we definitely don't do what they do in Bonaire. In fact, it seems that the Guy Fawkes celebrations dominate the English-speaking Caribbean with the celebration of Halloween depending in those places on the level of American influence. I added a sub-section on Halloween in the Caribbean (before reading what you said here, actually). Perhaps the part on Bonaire can be included as a pargraph under that subsection. ~ Hairouna 22:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Bonaire" section changed to "Caribbean"

message: I have deleted this passage:
:In Great Britain and Ireland in particular, the pagan Celts celebrated the Day of the Dead on All Hallows Day (1st November). The spirits supposedly rose from the dead and, in order to attract them, food was left on the doors. To scare off the evil spirits, the Celts wore masks. When the Romans invaded Great Britain, they embellished the tradition with their own, which is both a celebration of the harvest and of honoring the dead. Very much later, these traditions were transported to the United States, Canada and Australia.
The first and last sentences are redundant to text already in the article. And the assertions that the pagan Celts wore masks and left food at the door just are not supported by scholarship, although those claims appear often (without documentation) in popular histories of Halloween. — Walloon 19:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Food and masks

message: This is the more substantive and notable article so is suggested as the recipient of any additional material not already present.  The merge should be discussed below.  There is a proposal to split the source article a list and to merge the remainder here.  Fiddle Faddle 07:43, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Template removed and the issue is resolved for now. See Halloween traditions talk page for more. --The Argonaut 11:15, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from [[Halloween traditions]] 

message: User:SiobhanHansa has "trimmed down list in keeping with external links guidlines" according to the User's edit summary. In the wholesale "trimming" of national and local customs, two far from mainstream christianist links have been retained. Rather than restore the censored links myself, I merely draw this action to users' attention. --Wetman 02:43, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link "reduction" 

message: Wow! Didn't know Halloween was controversial! So a PERSONAL recollection: I grew up in Dublin in the 1960’s. By that time dressing up and going door to door was widespread; Halloween was a major event. 
Bonfires were lit on Halloween; Guy Fawkes was almost unknown, except that in the British ‘comics’ (Beano, Dandy etc) which we all read as kids, the 5th November was the big night; the British  equivalent of Ireland's Halloween. . 
The phrase "trick or treat" was unknown, but "have you got any apples or nuts" was used instead. Apple bobbing, barm brack with the peas, rag, ring, cloth and wood was part of the fare; as was "colcannon"; a mixture of mashed boiled potatoes and green curley kale which was embedded with coins wrapped in paper; this was served at dinner time (as the midday lunch was called).   
All the modern stuff, the masks, fireworks, bonfires, dressing up etcetera was part of the event. 
PUMPKINS were unknown; but we carved TURNIPS in exactly the same style. 
But I must say my firm recollection was that Halloween was not celebrated in England; rather it was Bonfire Night (Guy Fawkes) that was the big event over there. — Sarah777 16:51, 23 September 2006
:Very interesting! Thanks for the first-hand information. — Walloon 05:00, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup, I agree with that rendition about Dublin.  Well,I can go back to the 1950's in Dublin.  I remember the kids powdering their faces white, and around their eyes black, just to look spooky. Then masks started becoming more popular from the early 60's onwards.  It was more of a kids thing then.  It was a sort of becoming of age thing, the only night of the year where the parents allowed the kids to indulge in freedom, and the kids reveled in it. My English cousins did not celebrate it, but celebrated Nov6, in burning the Guy. My mother, who is 94 remembers it being celebrated in western Ireland. Snap apple, picking up coins from a watery-plate with the mouth, bobbing apples etc.  The local boys would light great bonfires, that was about 1920 or so. 86.42.141.109 22:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Halloween in the 1960s Ireland

message: Mentioning Guy Fawkes Night celebrations is not totally inappropriate in the section about Halloween in the U.K. It occurs on the calendar close to Halloween, and the traditions, especially in the lighting of bonfires, are similar to the old Halloween traditions. The existence of Guy Fawkes Night helps explain why Halloween was little observed in England from the 17th to the 20th century. (The de-emphasis of All Saints Day after the English Reformation being the other main reason.) — Walloon 21:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Walloon, I agree with you.  Guy Fawkes Night does have a relevance to the main topic, as that is the big night in Great Britain when effigies of the Roman Catholic conspirator Guy Fawkes is ceremoniously burned in these fires. Although Irish communities in England, Scotland and Wales continued to mark Halloween, whether it was celebrated in Britain pre 17th century is questionable. 86.42.146.19 13:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Guy Fawkes Night

message: I mentioned above that the traditional Irish dinner (lunch) on Halloween was "colcannon" and was made with cabbage and potatoes. In fact that should have been green curley cale. 
You can find the recipe in the photo - try it! 
Wrap a few coins in greaseproof paper and serve it up to the kids - be sure to warn then not to swallow any coins....this was the start of the Halloween festivites; dinner being served when we got home from school, about 2.30 in the afternoon. 
Nowadays kids don't go to school on Halloween, but get the entire week off; the "Halloween Break"
(I've just spotted there is a Wiki article on "colcannon"; but it doesn't give the recipe. 
I'll fix that!!
(Sarah777 12:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colcannon 

message: im new to wikipedia and im probably not even editing the talk page correctly.. but i just wanted to say thatthe section on celebration in the UK is really disorganized like, each sentence is a separate paragraph about a different tradition and it seems like people just randomly inserted things =D i will try to fix it but im not very good at this..
finisher 23:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: UK Celebration Section

message: The Good Article review on this article has been closed, with three in favor of delisting and nobody opposed. At first the concern was the cleanup tag but that seems to of either been resolved or wasn't needed in the first place, but the references are still the big problem, although there are many notes, the majority of sections in this somewhat long articles have absolutly no references at all. Review archived here: Wikipedia:Good articles/Disputes/Archive 6 Homestarmy 00:51, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article Review