Talk:Óró sé do bheatha abhaile

message: I heard somewhere that the tune for this was imperfectly copied by English sailors who had contact with Irish sailors and eventually became "What shall we do with the drunken sailor?".  Is there any truth in this?  There is a definite resemblance to my ear.
212.183.140.41 (talk) 11:55, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Drunken Sailor?

message: Just added the original version and translated it quite literally to give a feeling for meaning of the Irish, rather than be loyal to metre or rhyme.Jamesnp (talk) 13:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original Lyrics 

message: Does the first word of the title not have two long O's: Óró. On most recordings of the song it has been spelled that way and Óró is also a common sound-word in Irish traditional music.--Theosony (talk) 14:36, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved the page to the seems-to-be-correct title. Even content of the page agree that it should be 'Óró', with two acutes. Silmethule (talk) 19:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling error?? 

message: Re: Note 5 and English translation
The fact that Frainc is used in some versions in place of Gaill should make it plain to see that Gaill actaully means French (or more precisely, Gaulish), from Gaul (the Roman name for the area now called France).--213.94.176.20 (talk) 18:58, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes 

message: My book of Irish ballads give different words, and says it was a song about the "hauling home" (i.e. the time after the honeymoon when the bride moved into her new husband's song).  This website corroberates this story.   I will had something about this to the article.  But I would appreciate some commentary from someone who can read Irish (Gaelic). --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 04:50, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-political version 

message: I’ve removed the reference to Óró Sé do Bheath Abhaile being erroneous.  This is merely a different transcription.  I don’t think An Caighdeán Oifigiúil makes any reference to how elision should be represented (usually it isn’t) but it seems to me that do bheath’ abhaile is just as valid as do bheatha ’bhaile, and actually makes more sense to me.  The only printed source of this song I have in my possession is Ceolta Gael (Seán Óg & Mánus Ó Baoill, Cló Mercier 1975) and there it’s spelled Óró, Sé do Bheatha Abhaile. ☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 01:10, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  ‘Erroneous’ 

message: This article has problems.  It just declares one version as original with no citation or proof.  The origins of folk songs is inevitably murky so we shouldn’t be pretending otherwise.
I’ve been trying to find a definitive source for the Pádraig Pearse version and though they don’t have an Irish version, CELT do have an English translation of An Dord Féinne which seems to correspond to the version at http:// pillar.ds4a.com /garden/andordfeinne.htm (had to mangle this address because of Wikipedia’s overenthusiastic spam filter!).  These don’t correspond to the usual modern version in verse order or orthography, so it may be worth adding a version.  Unfortunately, it’s not clear who is the author of the page at pillar.ds4a.com.
The so-called ‘original’ version (who can say if it is or not) seems to be sourced from Ceolas.  It would be better if we could find the sources that Ceolas used as although quite useful, there are probably more authoritative sources.  The lack of formatting of the information at Ceolas also makes it rather hard to follow what comes from which source.
☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 05:31, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations & "originality" 

message: P.W. Joyce’s Old Irish Folk Music and Songs (1909) is available at the Internet Archive and I have extracted the rather confusing quotes used at Ceolas below.  Ceolas also refer to nos. 281 & 729 in this book, but they seem to be different tunes.
p. 121The following 34 airs (to “She’s the dear Maid to me”) were sent to me from time to time during 1884 by Mr. Francis Hogan of South Lodge, Brenormore, near Carrick-on-Suir, a good musician and a great enthusiast in Irish music and songs. He must have been then well over seventy years of age. Some of these he wrote from memory, and others he copied from MSS.
p. 130275. ORO, ’SE DO BHEATHA A BHAILE: ORO, WELCOME HOME!
A Hauling-home Song.
The “Hauling home” was bringing home the bride to her husband’s house after marriage. It was usually a month or so after the wedding, and was celebrated as an occasion next only in importance to the wedding itself.
The bridegroom brought home his bride at the head of a triumphal procession—all on cars or on horseback. I well remember one where the bride rode on a pillion behind her husband. As they enter the house the bridegroom is supposed to speak or sing:—
Oro, sé do bheatha a bhaile, is fearr liom tu ná céad bo bainne:
Oro, sé do bheatha a bhaile, thá tu maith le rátha.
Oro, welcome home, I would rather have you than a hundred milch cows:
Oro, welcome home, ’tis you are happy with prosperity [in store for you].
Here is Mr. Hogan’s note on this air:---“This song used to be played at the ‘Hauling Home,’ or the bringing home of a wife. The piper, seated outside the house at the arrival of the party, playing hard [i.e. with great spirit]: nearly all who were at the wedding a month previous being in the procession. Oh, for the good old times!”
This tune is called in Stanford-Petrie an “ancient clan march”: and it is set in the Major, with many accidentals, but another setting is given in the Minor. I give it here as Mr. Hogan wrote it, in its proper Minor form. In several particulars this setting differs from Dr. Petrie’s two versions. It was a march tune, as he calls it: but the March was home to the husband’s house. Dr. Petrie does not state where he procured his two versions.
And who is this Mr. Hogan?
Page 121
The following 34 airs (to “She’s the dear Maid to me”) were sent to me from time to time during 1884 by Mr. Francis Hogan of South Lodge, Brenormore, near Carrick-on-Suir, a good musician and a great enthusiast in Irish music and songs. He must have been then well over seventy years of age. Some of these he wrote from memory, and others he copied from MSS.
☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 07:00, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Joyce / The ‘Hauling home’ version

message: The Complete Collection of Irish Music (1902, 1905) contains some different versions of the music, but little textual information. Number 1425, perhaps the most relevant, is titled (old script) Ó ro! ’sé do ḃeaṫa a ḃaile (modern) Ó ro! ’sé do bheatha a bhaile and marked “Ancient clan march.”
Ceolas also cite nos. 926 (“Barrack Hill.”), 983 (untitled, Ancient Clan March) and 1056 (Welcome home Prince Charley).  926 seems to be a completely different tune.
☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 07:00, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: [[George Petrie (artist)|Petrie]]

message: The pillar.ds4a.com version plus CELT (i.e. Pearse’s) translation.
:'S é do bheatha, a bhean ba léannmhar
:Dob’ é ár gcreach do bheith i ngébheann,
:Do dhúthaigh bhreá i seilbh méirleach,
:'S tú díolta leis na Gallaibh.
::Chorus:
::Óró,'s é do bheatha abhaile,
::Óró,'s é do bheatha abhaile,
::Óró,'s é do bheatha abhaile,
::Anois ar theacht an tsamhraidh,
:A bhuí le Dia na bhfeart go bhfeiceam,
:Muna mbímid beo ina dhiaidh ach seachtain,
:Gráinne Mhaol is míle gaiscíoch
:Ag fógairt fáin ar Ghallaibh.
::Chorus
:Tá Gráinne Mhaol ag teacht thar sáile,
:Is Fianna Fáil 'na mbuidhin gharda,
:Gaeil féin 's ní Francaigh ná Spáinnigh,
:Is ruagairt ar na Gallaibh!
::Chorus
:'Se do bheatha, O woman that wast sorrowful,
:What grieved us was thy being in chains,
:Thy beautiful country in the possession of rogues,
:And thou sold to the Galls,
::Chorus:
::Oró, 'se do bheatha a bhaile,
::Oró, 'se do bheatha a bhaile,
::Oró, 'se do bheatha a bhaile,
::Now at summer's coming!
:Thanks to the God of miracles that we see,
:Altho' we live not a week thereafter,
:Gráinne Mhaol and a thousand heroes
:Proclaiming the scattering of the Galls !
:Chorus
:Gráinne Mhaol is coming from over the sea,
:The Fenians of Fál as a guard about her,
:Gaels they, and neither French nor Spaniard,
:And a rout upon the Galls !
:Chorus
☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 07:00, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Pearse version

message: Ceolta Gael (Seán Óg & Mánus Ó Baoill, Cló Mercier 1975).  Modern spelling (though do bé looks odd - dob é would be more standard) and different verse order.
:’Sé do bheatha, a bhean ba léanmhar
:do bé ár gcreach tú bheith i ngéibhinn
:do dhúiche bhreá i seilbh meirleach
:is tú díolta leis na Gallaibh.
::Chorus:
::Óró, sé do bheatha abhaile
::óró, sé do bheatha abhaile
::óró, sé do bheatha abhaile
::anois ar theacht an tsamhraidh.
:Tá Gráinne Mhaol ag teacht thar sáile
:óglaigh armtha léi mar gharda,
:Gaeil iad féin is ní Gaill ná Spáinnigh
:is cuirfidh siad ruaig ar Ghallaibh.
::Chorus
:A bhuí le Rí na bhFeart go bhfeiceam
:muna mbeam beo ina dhiaidh ach seachtain
:Gráinne Mhaol agus míle gaiscíoch
:ag fógairt fáin ar Ghallaibh.
::Chorus
:Hail to you sorrowful woman
:it was our woe that you were in captivity
:your fine country in the possession of thieves
:while you were sold to the foreigners.
::Chorus:
::Hurrah, welcome home
::Hurrah, welcome home
::Hurrah, welcome home
::now at the coming of Summer.
:Gráinne Mhaol is coming over the sea
:armed warriors as her guard
:they are Gaels, not foreigners or Spaniards
:and they will put the foreigners to flight.
::Chorus
:Thanks to the King of Miracles that we might see
:although we might not live but a week after
:Gráinne Mhaol and a thousand heroes
:declaring the scattering of the foreigners.
::Chorus
☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 07:00, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Modern version

message: Although many recordings seem to use an elided form of the name (with an apostrophe), most of the sources I’ve been able to find do not.  I plan to rename the page to the straightforward modern Irish form of the title unless anyone has serious objections.
Petrie (1855) has Ó ro! ’sé do ḃeaṫa a ḃaile / Ó ro! ’sé do bheatha a bhaile.
Joyce (1909) has Oro, sé do bheatha a bhaile.
Pearse (1914?) has Oró, 'se do bheatha a bhaile.
:Ó Muirgheasa (1915) has Óró, ’sé do ḃeaṫa aḃaile (Óró, ’sé do bheatha abhaile) ☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 02:15, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming 

message: I was wondering if the popular song "Oro, Oro", by the Traveller band the Fureys should be included in this article. I don't believe the song is noteworthy enough to merit it's own article, never having been released as a single or risen high on a major chart, but is popular enough and important enough to the evolution and cultrural importance of this song to merit mention somewhere in this article, possibly in the history section, where modern versions of the song are mentioned.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.253.125 (talk) 19:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oro, Oro - the Fureys 

message: At least one source seems to think that Joyce actually was the author: ""The Wind That Shakes the Barley" is an Irish ballad written by Robert Dwyer Joyce (1836-1883), a Limerick-born poet and professor of English literature." As much as I know about the folklorists of that era in different countries, the issues of authorship can be contested and convoluted at best, so I suspect it might not be that simple. But there might be something in the comments, so if someone would check them from more serious sources and make the appropriate additions to the article, it would be greatly appreciated: "The song is written from the perspective of a doomed young Wexford rebel who is about to sacrifice his relationship with his loved one and plunge into the cauldron of violence associated with the 1798 rebellion in Ireland. The references to barley in the song derive from the fact that the rebels often carried barley oats in their pockets as provisions for when on the march. This gave rise to the post-rebellion phenomenon of barley growing and marking the "croppy-holes," mass unmarked graves which slain rebels were thrown into, symbolising the regenerative nature of Irish resistance to British rule."  --Oop (talk) 01:41, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Authorship and miscellanea