Talk:Bob Ehrlich

message: I am laughing at this one. This is the first time I have clicked on an inter-wiki link and have come across a vandalized version of the page (I have reverted back to the original). The funny thing is I believed it as I read it. I saw his picture and thought, " Wow! She's pretty convincing for a transexual!" 68.163.49.249 08:43, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: prominent [[lesbian]]

message: This article reads like something produced by Gov.Ehrlich's PR staff. It needs to be completely rewritten from a NPOV. 70.111.10.89 07:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: For example: "Throughout his congressional tenure, he maintained most of his campaign promises and worked towards lowering one of the highest tax rates in U.S. history and towards garnering further support for American troops abroad. He supported disabled Americans by introducing legislation aimed at helping those who had been disabled maintain employment, and supported harsher gun violence penalties." That sounds like a campaign commercial, not an encyclopedia article. 70.111.10.89 00:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: POV Check

message: This article has obviously been written with a partisan twist. I believe many parts should be deleted or significantly changed, most especially the following parts:
1)	The choice of Michael Steele should not be racially compared
2)	The article about the Baltimore Sun is not written well and is slanted towards the governors position
3)	The MD4BUSH incident is totally unimportant and should be deleted, though if it was significantly curtailed that would be ok. (It is also factually incorrect). —the preceding unsigned comment is by 68.48.81.61 (talk • contribs) 
:The primary reason I reverted your changes is because you provided no justification for them.  If you can provide adequate justification, feel free to make changes. --tomf688{talk} 01:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: POV Check

message: ...and as such needs to be either rewritten or heavily edited. Here are the problems as I see them and the "justifications" for forthcoming edits (by me or others). NB: This is a long post.
In general, my complaints regarding this article are:
:1. The Governor of Maryland section is simply a rewrite of Ehrlich's official bio. As an active politician, his bio is a campaign document, and the resulting bias is evident in the article.
:2. The article is full of fluff about "determinations," "plans" and "intentions." Of the factual claims in this article, none are sourced or cited.
:3. Said uncited facts are spun to accentuate the positive aspects of Ehrlich's record (e.g., the unemployment rate hasn't really decreased much).
:4. Arguments are weighted in favor of Ehrlich (e.g. the criticism section regarding his stance on slot machines doesn't actually contain any criticism).
I'll go through how these issues arise in the "Governor of Maryland" section, the "criticism" section, and remaining instances:
Governor of Maryland
This section is simply a rewrite (or in some instances, a near-copy) of the Governor's official bio at . The Governor is running for re-election, and his online bio is designed to help him accomplish that. The reason this piece "reads like something produced by Gov.Ehrlich's PR staff," as noted in an earlier comment, is because large portions of it were produced by his PR staff. They cover the same points, in the same order, with the same or similar words.
A point-by point-comparison of excerpts of his bio with the article follows, with my comments.
:Official Biography: "Since assuming office, Governor Ehrlich has fought for the Five Pillars of his Administration: Fiscal Responsibility, Education, Health & the Environment, Public Safety, and Commerce." 
:Article: "Since becoming governor, Ehrlich has outlined what he calls Five Pillars of his Administration: fiscal responsibility, education, health and the environment, public safety, and commerce."
:Comment: Pure fluff that should be removed. All US politicians say that their priorities are cutting spending, education, health, environment, safety, and commerce. What else is there? This kind of staetment, by itself is not article material. (If Ehrlich had said "Screw the environment", or that his five pillars were Shahadah, Salāt, Sawm, Zakāh, and Hajj, that would be another story).
:Official Biography: "Governor Ehrlich has balanced the state budget every year since assuming office, resolved $3.4 billion in deficits, and rejected $1.1 billion in tax increases."
:Article: "The $1.8 billion state budget deficit left by the Glendening administration has been eradicated during Ehrlich’s tenure. Maryland's budget has been balanced every year (the state forecasts a $1 billion surplus for the 2005 fiscal year) since Ehrlich has been in office."
:Comment: 1) No cites for these figures. Should be deleted unless there's an impartial source provided. 2) Why the gratuitous mention of Glendenning, since its already been established that he was Ehrlich's predecessor, other than to highlight this governor vs. a Democratic predecessor? Should be deleted
:Official Bio: "He has fully-funded the "Thornton Act," by providing record increases in education funding for students in low-income neighborhoods."
:Article: "In education, Ehrlich has endorsed the Thornton Plan, named after sponsor Dr. Alvin Thornton. The plan was proposed to drastically increase education funding in the state by $1.3 billion annually with the hopes of improving public education for students across Maryland, especially for schools in lower-income neighborhoods."
:Comment: Fluff -- Politician "endorses" a "plan" which he "hopes" will "improve public education." How does this belong in the article? Did he come up with it? Has it shown any particularly notable results? Was it controversial? Or is it just a campaign blurb to say that Ehrlich is interested in education? Should be deleted if so. 
:Official Bio: "Governor Ehrlich is determined to provide affordable healthcare in Maryland, especially to those with limited access to health insurance. "
:Article:"Health care has also been policy focus for Ehrlich, and has established a position in his cabinet based on providing affordable benefits to those who cannot afford them. "
:Comment: Perhaps this could be de-fluffed as: "Erlich has created a cabinet position of...." But I did some searches online and couldn't find what the title of this position is or the name and title of the occupant. On the other hand, if we're going to mention his "policy focus" on health care here, NPOV would seem to dictate inclusion of his veto of the Wal-Mart healthcare bill, or at least a mention here with the full text under "Criticism."
:Official Bio: "He has made the preservation of the Chesapeake Bay his top environmental priority. He signed into law his Chesapeake Bay Restoration Fund, the most important environmental initiative in a generation, which reduces nutrient pollution into the Bay by 7 million pounds annually."
:Article:  "Ehrlich also signed into law legislation aiming to reduce pollution and runoff in the Bay by millions of pounds annually."
:Comment: This sentence is horribly vague but despite the "aiming to reduce" language isn't completely fluff, assuming that we're talking about the CBRF. An NPOV (and more detailed) presentation is: "Erlich also signed into law the Chesapeake Bay Restoration Fund, which funds upgrades of water treatment plants, which reduce pollution discharge, through a surcharge on business and residential water and septic bills." 
:Official Bio: "Governor Ehrlich established the Governor's Office of Homeland Security, making Maryland one the first states in the nation with a cabinet-level agency dedicated to securing the homeland."
:Article: "Ehrlich has appointed a cabinet-level Homeland Security advisor..."
:Comment: I'm not really sure if this is fluff or not. Why should this be in the article?
:Official Bio: "Since he assumed office, Maryland's workforce has grown by nearly 60,000 jobs and the State's unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the nation. "
:Article: "With employment, Maryland boasts one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation, and has seen an increase of 60,000 jobs since Ehrlich has taken office."
:Comment: This is spin. While it is true that the employment statistics for MD show an increase of ~76,000 from 2003 (Ehrlich's first year as governor) to 2005, the annual unemployment rate has changed little. For 2003 it was 4.5%; for 2005 it was 4.1%. See . NPOV mandates inclusion of both.
Criticism
* Slot machines -- these are filed under "criticism." Where's the criticism? The entire second paragraph is comprised of justifications for why Ehrlich supports slots, but there's no substantive explanation of why someone might oppose them. This is POV. Ehrlich hasn't won, so someone obviously opposes slots -- why?
* Ehrlich's veto of the Wal-Mart health-care bill should be in here.
* "The O'Malley rumors and Steffen's role in the Ehrlich Administration provided a reason for legislative investigation into hiring practices by the Administration." No. The two were related, as Steffen claimed that he was the administration's "hit man." However this sentence is POV because it makes it appear that the investigation was revenge for Steffen's spreading rumors about O'Malley. I've changed it.
Other sections
* "He has also opposed sales and income tax increases." Again, depends on whom you ask. Some would argue that a surcharge is a tax. Therefore, it should be changed, e.g.:
:"Ehrlich claims that he opposes sales and income tax increases. However, the Chesepeake Bay Restoration Fund, which Ehrlich signed into law, imposes a state-wide surcharge on water and septic services which critics have dubbed "the flush tax." 
* The MD4Bush Incident is already covered in ample detail in the article of that name. This section should be reduced to: 
:"In early 2005 Ehrlich fired an aide, Joseph Steffen, for spreading rumors of marital infidelity about Baltimore mayor Martin O'Malley on the Free Republic Internet site.  O'Malley, a Democrat, is running for governor in 2006 and, if he wins the primary, will likely face off against Ehrlich in the general election." More at MD4Bush Incident
* 2002 Gubernatorial Election: I deleted the final paragraph, which discussed post-election Democratic infighting. This section still takes nearly as much space criticizing Townsend as talking about what Ehrlich did in the campaign.
* Congress: This section is generally in good shape. However, I question the statement "While politically moderate..." which prefaces Ehrlich's support of the President. Moderate according to whom? It strikes me as political spin inserted to reassure those who might be turned off by his support of Bush.
Well, this has been a productive use of an afternoon...
Touchstone 23:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This "Article" Is a Campaign Pamphlet 

message: Apparently these will be the deciding factor in the race, I made note of this, but it was almost immediately removed.  I know that info is right, I've been hearing about it all last night and this morning.  Right now the page is very misleading.-Jeff (talk) 19:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Absentee ballots 

message: The category is in error; the gov-elect's name (if it's to added to the list) should be listed as 'O'Malley (elect). GoodDay 18:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Governors of Maryland

message: Is this really the same guy who developed snack foods through his company, Robert's American Gourmet? --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:48, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robert's American Gourmet 

message: There are several other controversies that occured under ex-governor Ehrlich's tenure that should be included in this article.
First was the proposed sale of 836 acres of St. Mary's county public property to land developers that were known political friends of Ehrlich.  This property was bought with public money under the premise that the property would be preserved.  Below is a Washington Post article about this:
 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33745-2005Jan24.html
Second was the banning of administration officials from responding to questions from specific Baltimore Sun reporters.  Below is a Washington Post article about this:
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45153-2004Dec7.html
Lastly was the infamous 'locked door' incident.  The Maryland Senate was providing Mr. Ehrlich with several bills to consider.  He had threatened to veto them, but the senate had enough votes to override the veto.  So Mr. Ehrlich simply locked the door of his office and claimed the Senate did not provide him these bills in the time necessary.  The matter went to court.  Below is a Washington Post article about this:
  http://blog.washingtonpost.com/annapolis/2006/04/post_6.html
These should be included in this article to provide a fair view of Mr. Ehrlich's tumultuous tenure as governor of Maryland.
Weengineer (talk) 19:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A broader range of sources (beyond the Washington Post) would probably improve on fairness. —Adavidb 14:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further Ehrlich controversies 

message: If you want more sources than the Washington Post, here they are:
As per Mr.Ehrlich's proposed land sale fiasco:
From the Baltimore Sun  http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-land0420,0,794452.story
From the Daily Record (Baltimore paper)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4183/is_20050114/ai_n10065017
As per to Mr. Erhlich's not allowing administration to speak to Baltimore Sun reporters:
From the Baltimore Sun
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/bal-md.ban14jan14,1,4613027.story
In fact, this even went to court.  THAT should be seen as highly controversial when a newspaper takes the standing governor to court over 1st amendment rights (full disclosure, the court sided with Ehrlich).
As per to Mr. Erhlich's locking the office door to avoid receiving paperwork from the senate:
From a website called 'Environmental Action'
http://www.environmental-action.org/blog/archives/clean_air/index.html
For an article that supposedly details Mr. Erhlich's tenure as governor, it lacks information that is essentially common knowledge to most Marylanders.  In fact, I would agree with others that this article is biased (intentionally???) to present Mr. Ehrlich in a more positive light.
Weengineer (talk) 17:18, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for finding the sources. By the way, blogs are generally not considered acceptable sources for use on Wikipedia. —Adavidb 10:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  More sources on Ehrlich controversies 

message: The source specified for the new section on a police spying controversy seems to consist only of a direct quote of statements of one activist, without any editorial vetting.  As such I question the reliability of the source and have marked it with a "Vc" template. The 'about' page for the grist.org source site summarized itself as "gloom and doom with a sense of humor", which doesn't help support any reliability. —ADavidB 22:03, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Police spying on political activists? 

message: Tincup2684 has twice blanked several portions of the Controversies section, stating the content is "outdated."  The blanked content includes numerous citations from reputable newspapers.  If you know of more recent information that is more accurate or informative on these subjects, please update the content rather than delete it. Spril4 (talk) 14:33, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repeated blanking of Controversies sections 

message: I fixed the info box to the standard box used for former Governors/elected officals. Also, there is no source to say he left the Republican Party. Third, I can't for some reason revert it, but the user who did the two other changes I undid, put "former politican". I don't agree with this label. This appears to be a case of vandalism. America69 (talk) 03:27, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Fixed

message: This article has been renamed to "Bob Ehrlich (politican)"--including the misspelled profession--by User:Levineps who has been specifically barred from renaming articles for over a year.  Unless anyone has a better plan, I'll rename it to "Bob Ehrlich (politician)" as I don't see any cited source confirming the opening statement that Ehrlich has retired from politics, and most "former" members of a profession in Wikipedia do not appear to be listed as "former". Spril4 (talk) 23:59, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misspelled renaming 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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replies: text: Only the first two of these were actually included in the article.  I completed the third addition, converting an inline external link to a ref tagged source citation. —ADavidB 18:38, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160216220556/http://library.cqpress.com/ to http://library.cqpress.com/
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replies: text: The bobehrlich.com archive versions weren't useful (and their date adjusted), and I pointed the CQ Press elections library link to library.cqpress.com/elections/. —ADavidB 04:25, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified