Talk:Channel Dash

message: Excerpted Donnerkeil from the eponymous article.Keith-264 (talk) 11:08, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Does anyone have a cite for this passage pls? A British agent in Brest was unable to signal that the Brest Group was departing because of German wireless jamming and HMS Sealion, patrolling outside the harbour, had withdrawn to recharge its batteries.[35] Heinkel He 111s dropped Düppel to jam British radar, ship-borne Arado Ar 196 floatplanes reconnoitred and Junkers Ju 88 bombers made low-level raids on Plymouth and nearby airfields. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 13:08, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Donnerkeil 

message: I've managed to reduce reliance on Flugzeug Classic Jahrbuch 2013 a journal source but there are still three citations. If anyone can replace them with a better one I'd be grateful. Keith-264 (talk) 07:20, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source request 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Added material by Bekker and Symonds.Seki1949 (talk) 20:03, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I know Regards Keith-264 (talk) 10:39, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Analysis section 

message: How many pics showing the same geographical feature are needed in this article? I think one is enough to indicate that the ships passed through the channel between UK and France.81.141.39.200 (talk) 12:20, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't but am interested in which you'd keep. Keith-264 (talk) 19:07, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many images of the Straits of Dover are needed? 

message: This talk page is getting quite long.  Should about the first third of it be 'Archived'?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seki1949 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I moved most pre-2017 Talk Content to Archive 1  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seki1949 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive? 

message: I have concerns about the sources used for the section titled "Norway hypothesis". These consist of:* Martienssen, Anthony K. (1949). Hitler and his Admirals. New York: E. P. Dutton.* Richards, Denis (1974) [1953]. "VI The Struggle at Sea: The First Battle of the Convoy Routes, the Anti-Shipping Offensive and the Escape of the 'Scharnhorst' and 'Gneisenau'" (used twice)* Roskill, S. W. (1962) [1957]. The War at Sea 1939–1945: The Period of Balance. History of the Second World War United Kingdom Military Series. II (3rd impr. ed.). London: HMSO.All of these are particularly dated sources, written in, respectively, 1949, 1953 and 1957. A lot of additional historical study has been done in the 60+ years since these books were written, and historians have also had the advantage of knowing the Enigma code-breaking side of the story since then to assist in their interpretation of events. These sources also pre-date Raeder's autobiography, written in 1960.
One more recent source, written in 2012, is Hellwinkel, Lars (2014 - that's the English language version date). Hitler's Gateway to the Atlantic: German Naval Bases in France 1940–1945  Seaforth Publishing. Here you find that the German Naval staff had come to the conclusion that Brest was untenable as a base for the 3 heavy ships. This coincided with Hitler's ambition to have his naval forces defending Norway. So the need to remove the ships from Brest was, according to this source, not totally Hitler's idea.
What other recent sources are there out there to help improve this part of the article?ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 20:31, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the new section and I hope that it "sticks" here. Before someone 'reverts' it, I hope this potential action is discussed on here on this Talk Page. In some respects, older sources that pre-date the reveal of Enigma are better for understanding the German decision making in this period.Seki1949 (talk) 20:56, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure I understand the remark about the "new section" - it has been in the article in (broadly) this form since before July 2018 (the date I went back to for a side-by-side comparison). I would also point out WP:AGE MATTERS and WP:HISTRH. Particularly relevant when the questioned sources were written before Raeder's memoirs were published. Also Hellwinkel had access to a lot of records that no historian had looked at seriously before - his work is properly referenced.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 22:49, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  My mistake referring to the section as "New". As to the use of new  vs old historical sources, opinions vary based on a number of editorial judgements.  Seki1949 (talk) 06:04, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources used for section "Norway hypothesis" 

message: No but someone else tried to remove it for being recondite. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 01:11, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiasco 

message: I note the infobox gives a brief list of total numbers of unit types involved in the episode, but that the article does not have an easy-to-find orbat for either side. I understand that the composition of the German convoy may have changed during the course of its transit, while the British forces were arrayed along the route of transit, but I am unclear on which units were involved overall, without having to read the full narrative. This is a rather long article (appropriately, as one would expect this for a significant episode); does anyone feel that it perhaps deserves a clearly-marked orbat section? 2A00:23C7:3119:AD01:3063:2CFA:2CBB:6B4C (talk) 00:18, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It won't do any harm but the data will be hard to find. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 00:39, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order of battle