Talk:Flywheel (film)

message: I don't do assessment yet, but the plot doesn't give me a fairly good idea on the film. At least try to give a bit more plot, so it's worth class B (in my opinion). Hoverfish 20:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that this is a very strong start but not a B class article. The plot section is a stub, and all the other sections could do with more information. The style of the article needs to be more encyclopedic as well. The article is a start that could easily be turned into a B.--Supernumerary 20:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: I don't do assessment yet

message: There was a sentence in the opening paragraph speaking of how during the film Jay Austin "became a more devout Christian" which is ridiculous to have the "more devout" in there because he wasn't a Christian at all, not even to the most liberal means of defining who is a Christian (according to Christian.) Besides, the film-makers made it clear that he became a Christian in the movie, which is why I have the removed the "more devout" part, and I've removed it now for the third time, each time with an explanation, which is why I'm creating this section in case anyone contests my actions. Oh, and yes, he did cheat his pastor before he was saved, but the film hints that he only went to church once every two weeks because his wife was a Christian; he was not. In fact, he even put empty envelopes in the offering plate. Invmog (talk) 02:44, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "Saved" (aka being one of the Elect) doesn't equal "Christian" in general contexts. It's a purely evangelical Protestant (I believe it originated in Calvinism) definition of Christian which doesn't convey a worldwide view of the subject. In layman terms, since he attends a Christian church, that makes him a follower of the religion of Christianity, regardless of whether he is "saved" or one of the "Elect".--SuaveArt (talk) 06:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: So an atheist who attends a Christian church is a Christian, too? Seregain (talk) 15:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That's basically an oxymoron and it shows how little your understanding of the worldwide definition of "Christian". Basically you believe there should be a "litmus" test for "Christian" (meaning just identifying with the religion isn't enough if according to you, the individual doesn't pass the litmus test). That would be like me asserting that the 9/11 hijackers "weren't Muslims" because they visited a strip bar the night before the terror attack (which violates the teachings of Islam), and is nonsenical. I changed the link to born-again Christian.--SuaveArt (talk) 20:49, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Tone down the hostility, please. I was simply asking a question based upon the parameters you set. "...since he attends a Christian church, that makes him a follower of the religion of Christianity, regardless of whether he is "saved" or one of the "Elect"." According to that sentence, an unsaved atheist can attend a Christian church and be called a Christian. Also, please do not presume to dictate what I do or do not know or believe. There is a specific definition as to who is a Christian and who is not and it most certainly has nothing to do with church attendance! A truly devout or born-again Christian can be someone who, for some reason or another (e.g. location, health, etc.), cannot often attend church. Conversely, someone who regularly attends church can be someone who is just going through the motions with no real belief or conviction behind it. (I know for a fact that my church has and had many in the first group and I would guess we probably have some in the second group.) In the end, though, your solution to the issue was excellent. Seregain (talk) 03:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Yes, I think SuaveArt came up with a most excellent solution so it's all settled and needn't be reopened. Invmog (talk) 04:03, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Thank you, SuaveArt, for changing it to 'born-again Christian'; I'm perfectly satisfied with that. Thanks also for holding me accountable to make sure that I wasn't using original research or just making stuff up. Invmog (talk) 23:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: FWIW, Suaveart is mistaken. A Christian is a person who is a member of a Christian church. There is a difference between attendance and membership. Trust me, I attended a church for many years and was not a Christian. I may attend services in future or other events, and it still won't make me a Christian. The 9/11 hijackers analogy was poor. Auntie E. (talk) 02:35, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Well, we're suppose to only use the talk pages for discussions which will help the article, and the discussion for this particular improvement on the article has been settled, so let's all be WP: CIVIL, and work on improving this and other articles, while WP:AGF. Invmog (talk) 04:08, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Jay Austin became a Christian