Talk:James Larkin

message: Although Larkin himself, and many subsequent writers, thought he had been born in 1876, his birth certificate actually shows (pace O'Connor) that he was born in 1874. Hence the discrepancy between the date cited and the title of one of the references.Palmiro 00:59, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally I would recommend updating the "early years" section (either via a footnote or in the text) to qualify that different sources offer different dates. In Nevin's James Larkin: Lion of the Fold: The Life and Works of the Irish Labour Leader (2006) for example he notes that "Larkin believed his birthday was 21 January 1876; in fact it was 28 January 1874". Otherwise it will only lead to confusion. And perhaps even edit warring. Not to mind, for example, questions as to why his gravestone gives 1876. While the statue on O'Connell street was updated after its erection/dedication from 1876 to 1874. If nobody has other thoughts, I might update to reflect and explain these differences. Rather than bulldozing one over the other... Guliolopez (talk) 11:45, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Date of birth

message: 1. Larkin as editor (The Harp in 1910, the Irish Worker in his ITGWU period, and several other organs)
2. The tempestuous nature of Larkin's relationships with colleagues and his autocratic manageent style, which was a factor in many of his rows and failures, perhaps needs to be pointed out in a more general way.
3. Account of Belfast strike is as per Boyd (cited in article) and may need to be re-examined
4. More detail on period 1907 - 1913
Palmiro 01:43, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues outstanding for work 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:PicofJlarkin.jpeg

message: The article has nothing about his parents' place of birth in Ireland, and his mother's surname. This would make it better. It also doesn't tell us why he ended up living his final years in Co Down, when he retired, and how many children he had. 109.77.86.100 (talk) 20:23, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Family origins & Co Down

message: a march comemorating him took place in liverpool this week , there was an oposing demonstration giving out leaflets saying larkin was IRA and that this march was for the IRA here a local news link http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/2012/07/21/massive-police-operation-keeps-rivals-apart-at-james-larkin-march-100252-31445627/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.43.34 (talk) 21:20, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: march in liverpool

message: An editor recently added a claim that Larkin created the phrase, "a fair day's work for a fair day's pay", providing the citation of a recent article. The article made a bit less of a claim, stating that it was, "one of his less well-remembered slogans," which might simply mean he said it often. The claim he coined it seems highly dubious to me. The American Federation of Labor had a similar phrase ("a fair day's wage for a fair day's work") as a slogan since the 1800's. Unless Larkin himself coined it for them, he surely would have heard of the slogan at least from being involved in the IWW in the 1910's. The Industrial Workers of the World had a criticism of that motto in the preamble to its constitution since its founding in 1905. If this claim is true, I think it needs better citation than a passing mention in an evergreen opinion piece, and there's several articles to update to reflect the information. If no objections, I'll remove the claim. djr13 (talk) 08:09, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair day's work, fair day's pay 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: (The following thread is from a discussion in the UserTalk namespace. I have moved it here as, it seems, the topic is not closed.)
 Hello, I'm Guliolopez. Your recent edit to the James Larkin article appears to have misrepresented the source. I have reverted it. Specifically, the source you reference (Brian Hanley, 'The Irish Citizen Army after 1916', page 40) is clear in that this title (overtly put in quotes by Hanley) was ascribed to Larkin by a limited number of dissenting ICA members. These "airquotes" make it quite clear that this was not an official or more broadly ascribed title. The passage is quite clear on this:
:In June a number of ICA officers including McCormack, de Couer and John Hanratty, attacked the Worker's Army idea as a plot [and] Claiming to owe allegiance to Larkin as 'commander-in-chief', the [limited number of dissenting] officers berated the 'Judases' who had stood aloof from the ICA
Please be careful not to misrepresent sources. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 08:45, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not a misrepresentation, the context of the comment made in the reference, (although nothing is "made clear" as you attempt to claim) does indeed show that this was a limited and unofficial group, however this is irrelevant as their claims relate to Larkin's previous position as commander of the ICA following Jack White's decision to leave for the Irish volunteers, and his continuing legacy and influence over the philosophy of the group. Slade121 (talk) 12:19, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If Larkin's previous position was titled "commander-in-chief" of the ICA, then please provide a source that doesn't involve "airquotes" and confirms its use beyond (by your own admission) a limited number of dissenting/schismed ICA members. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 19:31, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Commander-in-chief" 

message: Can someone please explain why Larkin is categorised as "Spy from Ireland"? The article itslef doesn't mention any such activitities.--Nico b. (talk) 06:26, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: That category was added in March 2008 in a series of edits relating to Larkin's apparent association with the Black Tom explosion. Covered in the "In the US" section. In which Larkin is linked with other "German agents" (spies). Guliolopez (talk) 08:47, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Having re-read the article as well as Black Tom explosion all I find is that Larkin was suspected but denied being part of an operation carried out by german spies. In my opinion that is not nearly enough to classify him as a spy.Nico b. (talk) 11:25, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi. I'm not advocating the inclusion of the category (or the related text) one way or the other. I was just addressing your question. If you are proposing a change, then other editors may be interested to hear the suggestion. And may be interested to comment. Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 11:37, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Checking the sources I have at hand plus what can be found online I find no reference to support the claim that he was a spy. In his anti war activities he certainly followed the old motto "England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity" and ready to ally with anyone he saw as possibly helpful, but no source known to me claims that he spied. This article in the Irish Times is interesting: . If no reliable sources are available to support the claim of Larkin being a spy I suggest to remove the category.--Nico b. (talk) 16:11, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I remove the category now as long as noone comes forward with sources.--Nico b. (talk) 22:23, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spy from Ireland? 

message: Opening a discussion about use of Larkin's Irish name due to difference of opinion with Guliolopez. Larkin was a proud Catholic and Irish nationalist. More than one source is not usually required. Note use of Irish name on James Connolly's page. Opinions welcome. Grosseteste (talk) 19:07, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi. As noted by  (in Jan 2019 and again in Sep 2019) as well as by me (in Jan 2019 and again in Mar 2021), the relevant guideline here is the IMOS guideline for in-article use of Irish names. In short, the Irish version of a subject's name may be given in the lead "if it is a well-known, commonly used name for that subject". There is no evidence that Jim Larkin is or was well-known by (or even himself went by) the Irish version of his name. The suggestion that "Larkin was a proud Catholic", and therefore would have used (or wanted us to use) the Irish version of his name, is an OR argument. "James Connolly's page includes an Irish name", and therefore so should Larkin's, is an OSE argument. Neither of these arguments sway against the IMOS convention/guideline. (If anything, given the comparatively high volume of sources which use "Séamas Ó Conghaile", relative to the equivalents for "Séamas Ó Lorcáin", the latter is probably even an argument against inclusion.) Guliolopez (talk) 21:07, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Note. According to this bio on Seán O'Casey on the (Irish language) National Database of Irish Biographies, "Jim Larkin wasn't an Irish speaker". I would also note that in every other biographical article from the same source (like this one on trade unionist Seamus Hughes or this on Larkin supporter Proinsias Mac Cana), while other subjects are referred to by their Irish name, Jim Larkin is always referred to as Jim Larkin. There no evidence that Larkin ever went by (or was/is commonly known by) his Irish name. There is every evidence to the contrary. The guideline therefore doesn't support inclusion. Guliolopez (talk) 21:26, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Irish name