Talk:Frère Jacques

message: I was just thinking, that as readers of the English Wikipedia might not necessarily know the correct pronounciation of the French version, how about a proper recording be made, especially if done by a fluent speaker of French. --Mike (talk) 06:43, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Grew up in a small farm town in Indiana some 50-60 years ago and even I was taught the correct pronounciation in like kindergarten, so suspect this isn't really a problem especially in a world with the Internet, You Tube, etc.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:801:4280:A710:6D24:37D2:4CDC:A41E (talk) 17:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  How about an audio recordings of the song? 

message: What are the thoughts regarding the theory sections?  I'd like to cut them. NonvocalScream (talk) 19:59, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Versions 

message: This needs some work as well, I'm going to research the MOS later tonight and edit the article unless someone gets there first on MOS style.  Not my strong suit, but I'm teachable. Best, NonvocalScream (talk) 20:13, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manual of Style 

message: The English equivalent of Jacques is James, not John.
*Jacques = James
*Jean = John
I have corrected the literal translation to reflect this fact.  
I do not know why the name was changed to John in the English lyrics.  ++Arx Fortis (talk) 00:13, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely a more accurate translation would be Jacques == Jack? Wictionary lists Jack's etymology as being an Anglicised version of Jacques, and as the names sound so similar it would make more sense to use Jack in the translation. Discuss.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.4.28 (talk) 13:04, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There's not a lot to discuss. Jacques = James.  There are plenty of references  and Wikipedia examples , including the La Bible du Semeur (French translation of the Bible) that clearly show that James is the proper translation of Jacques.  "Jack" and "Jake" are common phonetic mistakes among English speakers thinking that "Jacques" sounds like one of the other two, so it "must be the name."   While some people named Jacques may be called Jack or Jake by English-speaking friends, but that doesn't form the basis of an accurate translation.  Seeing as this song is originally a French song, a literal translation of the name is warranted.  ++Arx Fortis (talk) 15:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

text:  It's true, Jacques = Jacob = James and isn't related to the English name Jack. Interestingly, the English names Jack is short for Jackin, which was Johnkin - a diminutive of John. Now whether the person who wrote the popular English translation knew that or not I have no idea. They probably just consciously changed it to John because they thought it sounded better. eyeball226 (talk) 12:37, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  James; not John 

message: The littoral translation of this song is not dark like the information page suggests.
"Matins" is a time of prayer, and the song gives example to Brother Jacques who has overslept, and failed to ring the bells for Matins or Mass.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arneb04 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Inaccurate translation

message: 'Frère Jacques could possibly be a mistranslation; e.g. a small blotch on an original piece or score misinterpreted as an accent, which could have meant that it was originally called Frere Jacques (Brother James in English). It could have been composed by someone as a song for their brother Jacques, as a birthday present etc.'
How many people who were not a brother in the sense of a religious community would actually be given the task of ringing bells for Matins?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.4.28 (talk) 13:12, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really understand the thing about the possible accidental accent. With the accent 'Frère' still means brother both in the literal sense and the religious sense. eyeball226 (talk) 12:40, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

text: Is there a reliable source that has discussed this? DonIago (talk) 05:34, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible origins

message: Are the alternate lyrics used in the game "Bioshock", sung by one of the "little sister" characters, notable enough to be placed on this page? The lyrics in question are "Mister Bubbles, Mister bubbles/Are you there? Are you there?/Come and give me lollies, come and bring me toffees/Teddy bears, teddy bears".  216.82.142.13 (talk) 22:27, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bioshock video game 

message: "The song Frère Jacques has been translated into many languages with variations on the original lyrics." -- Is it really necessary to cite sources on this page, when the linked page, Alternative lyrics to Frère Jacques, has many sources itself? Do we really need to back up the "has been translated into many languages" claim with journalistic sources? Does the wiki link to a hundred examples not count? I'm removing the fact template. If anyone wants to revert feel free; but seriously, this is just silly. 24.68.73.192 (talk) 03:43, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pedantry 

message: Even a literal translation should not produce gibberish. Translating "Sonnez les matines!" as "Sound the mornings!" is absolutely gibberish; the phrase "Sound the mornings!" has no conceivable English meaning. "Les matines" in the context of "sonnez" refers to the church bells that rang to announce the canonical hour of "matines" ("matins" in English.) See Wikipedia itself at http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matines and Larousse at http://www.larousse.com/en/dictionaries/french-english/matines/49781.
In order to provide a literal translation without resorting to gibberish, I would suggest simply "Ring the morning bells!" A quick Google Books check shows that this phrase has already been used several times to translate this lyric, as well as being used in other contexts.
So, that being said, I'm going to go ahead and make the change. At the very least this note will show why.
Poihths (talk) 00:53, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translations should not produce gibberish 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the second "sheet music" graphic, would it be helpful to indicate that each two-measure section is to be repeated? I think the song is invariably sung that way, and that's how it's done in the two recordings. Ishboyfay (talk) 22:21, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but there is no sheet music at c:Category:Frère Jacques showing repeats in the round notation. Either someone uploads such a file to Commons, or someone creates it here with LilyPond, or a caption mentioning the repeats is added to the existing image. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:29, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repeating two-measure sections