Talk:Cao Wei

message: Is it possible to take the data from Wei (state) and put it here??
Quibus 11:25, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: As I review over the Wei state so many times, I see the one thing that I believe that could've have made it the more than just the strongest among the other kingdom. Cao Cao made the kingdom of Wei into a state of overwhelming man power, having more generals than Wu (maybe not), yet it seem that he would, to me, try to use chaos to his advantage or try to use surprising troops from the least place to expect. Overall, the kingdom of Wei had the man power, the perfect number of generals to command the troops yet at some points, they did not have the strategy to combat the likes of Zhuge Liang (till Sima Yi came to Wei's need) or of Lu Xun (Lu Meng's successor). I do though have much respect for Cao Cao and the use of chaos to his advantage; he displays this talent when he fought against Yuan Shao at the Battle of Guan Du.(Indeed, chaos can be a powerful ally.)
Nevertheless, Wei had all the resources needed, but it did not have the strategy to combat the best of Shu or Wu.
--Zhang Liao 16:03, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Kingdom of Wei Status 

message: Zhang He, Yue Jin, Zhang Liao, Xu Huang, and Yu Jin.
Out of all the generals that were in Wei, only these
five men showed more skill(Maybe not) and more feats
when war was upon them.
1.) Zhang Liao repel the Wu army at Hefei with only
800 troops and aid from only two officers.(Li Dian
and Yue Jin)
2.) Zhang He assist Sima Yi in the assault from the
South led by Zhuge Liang and scored a tremendous win
at Jieting.
3.) Xu Haung displays his skill not only by maintaining
order within Cao Cao's army but also by remaining on state
duty weather he was in battle or not.
4.) Yue Jin was noteable for his amazing service to Wei from
the time of Yuan Shao and after Cao Cao suffers the defeat
at Chi Bi.(Known as the Red Cliffs)
5.) Yu Jin gains his own way into the high ranking from his
efforts in the Yellow Turban battle. Upon the rise of Cao Cao,
Yu Jin assist the Duke of Wei in his battle at Guandu and soon
was promote.
If Anyone has any more interesting intel about the Top 5 Wei
generals then, please add on.--Zhang Liao 22:10, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Top Five Wei Generals 

message: Is protection of this page really necessary? About time to request an un-protect? Hanfresco 10:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Un-protection 

message: How many "important" people do you think should be listed for a state that lasted 45 years?  --Nlu (talk) 05:15, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha, okay, heres what I will do than i will edit the list to what i think are the more important people meaning i will add some and delets some from the current list, if you disagree fell free to intrude, but I think I got it under control. Hardworker111 10:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I am sorry if it sounds like I'm losing my temper.  After some thoughts, I will submit this to WP:RFC and look for opinions.  As Cao Wei appears to be the one that is the most disputed of the three lists, I'll request that the discussion be directed here.  --Nlu (talk) 19:26, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks.  But I'll address your view about empresses below. --Nlu (talk) 19:45, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of important individuals 

message: RfC has been filed.  Here are some of my views on what the criteria of inclusion should be, for all three articles (Cao Wei, Eastern Wu, and Shu Han):
# The individual needs to have actually possessed a high position during the state's existence or made a major, major impact on the founding of the state.  (Examples of the former, one from each state: Cao Shuang, Zhuge Ke, Jiang Wan; examples of the latter are Cao Cao, Sun Ce, and Guan Yu.) and
# The individual himself/herself has to be completely non-fictional, and his/her impact on the state's governance has to be itself non-fictional.  This excludes such individuals as Sun Shangxiang (based on real character, but the character as written later is fictional).
The reason is that these are encyclopedia articles, and people who may be signifiant in the public consciousness due to Romance of the Three Kingdoms and related works but are in actually non-important, or vice versa, are/can be more than adequately dealt with in their respective articles, rather than letting their inclusion continue to obfuscate on true importance.  Based on the Romance of Three Kingdoms, you would not thiink that Sun Jun was important; in reality, he had already become important late in Sun Quan's reign, and later on became all-powerful after he overthrew Zhuge Ke.  This is an encyclopedia, not a work of literary analysis.  If there is a list of "important individuals aboard the RMS Titanic, including Sun Shangxiang in the list of important individuals for Eastern Wu is the equivalent of including Rose Bukater in that list.  --Nlu (talk) 19:45, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And, after some thought, I think I'll propose this: remove the lists altogether.  The lists will either again spawn problems with over/under inlusion or create false impressions about what things actually were in history.  --Nlu (talk) 19:57, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about that Nlu, i understand your trying to prevent any edit wars from re-occuring, but that would make the page so dauntingly small, unless you plan on buffering it up and making it larger by adding more history and key facts. Hardworker111 20:09, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I support removing the lists. After all, the article (Shu Han, Eastern Wu as well) is much too brief, given the amount of information present. So size is not really a concern. _dk 09:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not as a comment as to whether the lists should be included, but some empresses and people you have listed to be 'unimportant' are very important; some wielded a lot of power as said before. However, Lady Sun (Sun Shangxiang by ROTK name) was politically important in the marriage to Liu Bei, and then she attempted to take Liu Bei's eldest son with her to Wu when the two states went to war later. I would think that is of at least political importance, although she did nothing later on to influence the country. I think the final problem is 'who judges' what is important and what is not; and that would be an issue should the list be kept. Annihilatron (talk) 15:42, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC 

message: I like this! Everybody who made some important impact to the Cao Wei kingdom is here. Cool listing to the Han Era Crew and the Three Kingdoms Crew. I also noticed the other two (Eastern Wu & Shu Han) Also done like that or similiar. Well there is no more reason for me to add on to the three kingdoms chars or places. Nice work!--Zhang Liao 05:53, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Whole Crew is here! 

message: I do not understand why the Chinese would be so hell bent on trying to prove Korea was dominated by China. Especially when it was not quite this in the ancient times, Wei had its eastern coastal provinces taken by foreigners who ruled the Downriver HwangHe for 400 years, so says a Chinese official today! Also, Kogureyeo is smack bang in the area in the northern korean peninsula where Wei has its territory drawn into it. If that was the case, why does the Great wall end near Beijing and not into the Korean Peninsula? The Great wall is made to prevent Northerners from invading.
I even witnessed old Chinese men saying the Wei territories were not drawn like this in Chinese historical textbooks only 20 years ago.
::The Great Wall at that time did end in the north Korean peninsula. Today's Great Wall was built around ming dynasty and was supposed to fend the Mongolian.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.92.70.49 (talk) 02:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The territory disputes 

message: How is Wei part of todays Vietnam? I would add Mongolia, but certainly not Vietnam. I guess somebody confused it with Wu here. (EnTerbury (talk) 21:59, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It's weird. Maybe the person was thinking of the Wei after it conquered Shu but before it became the Jin Dynasty. Some of Shu's southern territories might have been in present-day Vietnam.   LDS  contact me 02:48, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The person who added it was probably thinking about the Wu mutiny in Jiaozhi (which includes parts of Vietnam) that declared themselves to be under Wei control in 264. _dk (talk) 05:48, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: point 1, wei first became jin then conquered shu. shu also included myanmar and laos as well. point two, yeah thats true, which is now explained in the article. good! point 3, but the part above xihai in caowei is in todays mongolia. further, the korean part extends across the border to south korea. edit? EnTerbury (talk) 09:16, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

text: 1 not true actually, 3 needs explicit sources before editing. EnTerbury (talk) 02:43, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wei part of Vietnam? 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Former Wei. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  signed, Rosguill talk 19:37, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Former Wei" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]