Talk:Beethoven and his contemporaries

message: and Schubert!86.108.119.164 (talk) 21:59, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: What about Mozart?

message: Looking at the sources concerning the "Weihekuss", there is at first Joseph d'Ortigue's biographical sketch (1835). According to this, Beethoven visited the concert without kissing the boy or even saying a word. d'Ortigue's sketch was in 1836 reproduced in Schumann's "Neue Zeitschrift für Musik" in a translation to German. This was the source for Schilling's encyclopaedia article (1837) (Alan Walker's source "SEW"). Schilling added from his own fantasy that Beethoven mounted the platform, taking the boy's hand, and pronouncing him "Artist!" (Schilling had forgotten that Beethoven was deaf.) But there was no "Weihekuss" again. The earliest sources which were supported by Liszt himself are Rellstab's "Franz Liszt" (1842) and Schilling's "Franz Liszt" (1844). (Schilling's book is not to be confused with Walker's source "SEW".) Schilling's version is an elaborated paraphrase of Rellstab's version, but Schilling got some additional information from Liszt besides. In both versions Beethoven visited the concert, but he was only looking from a distance at the boy without saying a word or kissing him. Concerning Liszt's visit at Beethoven's home, Liszt told Schilling, that Beethoven had not "gehätschelt und liebkost" him, so that the story on which Alan Walker was relying is already wrong in this respect. Even worse, Liszt did not touch a single key and he did not dare to say a single word. Beethoven kept being mute as well. He only looked at Liszt with earnest eyes, not saying a word. Liszt, who according to Schilling could read Beethoven’s mind, knew from this that he was looked at by Beethoven with greatest respect. (Several pages of Schilling's own fantasies, surpassing even Alan Walker, are following.) This mind reading has most probably been the original source of Joseph d'Ortigue. (He was one of Liszt's closest friends at that time.)
In Beethoven's Conversation Books there is the entry by Liszt which is reproduced in a translation in Alan Walker's Liszt I, p.81. In the edition of the Conversation Books, Walker's "BK", there is a facsimile of the page. (It is before p.193.) It can be seen from there, that without the least distance from Liszt's request an own entry by Beethoven is following. It is "er suchte nur allzeit das gemeinste". ("He was always searching only the meanest.") The person who was always searching the meanest was not Liszt of course but Beethoven's brother. Beethoven had been talking with Schindler about him. There was then Liszt's visit, and afterwards Beethoven and Schindler went on with their conversation about Beethoven's brother. Liszt's visit had therefore been nothing more than a short interruption. Had the visit been of the kind which was imagined by Walker in his Liszt I, p.83f, instead, there would have been a conversation between Beethoven and the boy. Liszt would at least have asked whether he was allowed to play the concerto. But this would have left traces in the Conversation Books since Beethoven was deaf. As a result, the version in the Conversation Books concerning Liszt's visit agrees with the versions told by Rellstab and Schilling with the exception of Liszt’s mind reading. Concerning the concert it is no longer been doubted today that it was not visited by Beethoven. After this it should be clear that there had been no "Weihekuss" at all.84.61.62.45 14:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liszt and Beethoven's "Weihekuss" 

message: Is there information anywhere on the internet on this subject? A catalogue of people who Beethoven met together with their occupations/position in society, would surely make interesting reading.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.31.140.174 (talk) 00:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who did Beethoven meet during his lifetime? 

message: This article might want words on Anton Reicha, with whom Beethoven was friends for many years. They met in Cologne, and Reicha lived in Vienna for a time.  Documentation on Reicha seems to be fairly sparse in English, and he's also not currently as notable as some of the other people currently on the page. Magic♪piano 16:00, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Reicha

message: which disregards the important and most recent German literature on several topics, such as for instance the sources regarding Beethoven's meeting with Rossini in the Josephstadt. Some people have enough time on their hands to write superficial Wiki articles, but they never find the time to actually delve into the literature.--178.190.51.142 (talk) 09:24, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry to hear you found the article unsatisfactory. I think I added the section on Rossini a while ago, however, unfortunately I cannot read German. Maybe you could help with translations from the original German sources? I was only able to find links to a German reference about the Josefstadt meeting through Google books. Best, SPat talk 18:14, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  A weak and superfluous article