Talk:Kraków grosz

message: If it was introduced in the reign of Casimir III, why does the Latin text refer to "KAZIMIRVS PRIMUS"? -- Securiger 09:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Intriguing, indeed. It's not the only strange aspect about the coin now shown in the article, taken from Polish Wikipedia:
*the number III could have been attributed to him much later, when the roles of previous Casimirs were "reviewed"
*the name is misspelled "grosi cracoviensess", with an "s" missing in the first word, and one "s" added to the second
*the coin looks not quite like silver to me -- Matthead discuß!     O       09:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  On Casimir, III or I ? 

message: http://data.numismatics.org/cgi-bin/objsearch?kw=Krakau+Groschen&header=simple&dep=any&fld=any&orderby=objs.ce1%2Cobjs.ce2%2Cobjs.m&format=fullims —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.159.31.82 (talk • contribs) 04:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Labbas, ever heard the expression 'sounds like the broken record'? ANS database is a mess, and it as has been shown above, we have many, many more sources for other variants.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  20:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

text: That database of the ANS is hardly consistent: it uses grosz too, including Krakow grosz; and Cracow groschen also. In order to consider those results, first we would need to know what parameters does the ANS use to fill its database. - Best regards, Evv 22:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding the ANS database, be bold: This tool is very much under development and should be considered experimental. Comments are very welcome.) -- Matthead discuß!     O       00:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Krakau Groschen used in English language Numismatic

message: Some other related sources, compiled and commented by -- Matthead discuß!     O       09:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody is denying that a phrase "Polish groschen" might be used by some sources, but "Polish grosz" is about 10 times as popular. Thank you for showing us that ;p -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  13:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Piotr, the jocular quality of these Google games is puny. The "Austrian groschen" was replaced by the Euro in 2002, yet has still the same number of hits as the Polish grosz, which is a coin currently in use. On the other hand, "Polish zloty" has nearly two Million hits as its the current Polish currency. Do you want to call the coin Kraków złoty now? - Hey, according to that, there was a Kraków grosz in 1835, thank you for pointing that out. -- Matthead discuß!     O       00:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "...Poland previous to the year 1300 had only coins of leather" 

message: Yes, it is - no need to tune into CNN for reports on Bundeswehr advances to the East, though, the American Numismatic Society database will do: of the listed 9 records containing Krakow, 2 actually refer to money of the town Krakow am See in Northern Germany, bills of 25 Pfennig and 50 Pfennig issued from 1916 to 1922. In addition, Northern Germany has two more places called Krakow, and numerous places ending in -ow due to Slavic heritage there (see Wends). The town Cracow, which was part of Austria until the end of WWI before becoming a part of Poland as Kraków, is called Krakau in German (there's also a Cracau near Magdeburg). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Matthead (talk • contribs) 05:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, those are excellent reasons to use Kraków, not Krakow. Thank you. PS. The Talk:Kraków#Spelling_.2F_misspelling discussion may be interesting. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  16:54, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Excuse me, but a continued use of the well-established Cracow would spare the Polish city the fate of being spelled like German towns.  -- Matthead discuß!     O       17:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: German ? Like Litzmannstadt ? --Lysytalk 17:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Places in Germany are called and spelled Krakow, just to repeat the fact for your convenience. Regarding spelling and NPOV in Wikipedia, I'd like to remind of the fate of Teschen, a town on both sides of a river that was part of the German-speaking Empire of Austria until 1918. One side was made part of Czechoslovakia as Český Těšín in 1920. In 1938, after the Munich Agreement, Hitler ocupied the Sudetenland, and also Český Těšín was by force occupied and reunited with the other half of the city. One has to admire the neutral and complete reports the current Wikipedia articles give on this aggression. No relevant fact is left out, and the name of the culprit it not concealed at all.-- Matthead discuß!     O       12:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Your concern is touching - perhaps you should write to Kraków city council and suggest an official name change?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  22:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't care about the city administration. They can decide to call the town "Rada miasta Kraków z Jan Matejka i Karol Wojtyła" or whatever anytime, but they can not order people abroad to use this when refering to the city.-- Matthead discuß!     O       12:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's an even better reason to use Cracow, the English name for the city. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:36, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sigh. Than move Kraków to Cracow first... and create Wikipedia 1950 - because that's the old name, used less and less now.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  05:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Krakow is in Germany 

message: Add #Move or #Keep in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation (with further comment in the "Discussion" section), then sign your opinion with ~~~~
====Move to Kraków grosz====
# Support because as I stated above this is our policy: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28dates_and_numbers%29#Currency and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Numismatics/Style#Article_titles: Use the local name for the denomination even if there is an English translation (which gives us grosz) but use English name for the city (which gives us Kraków, and anybody who argues for old Cracow is welcome to move Kraków to Cracow first).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  05:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey 

message: # Support because as I stated above this is our policy: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28dates_and_numbers%29#Currency and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Numismatics/Style#Article_titles: Use the local name for the denomination even if there is an English translation (which gives us grosz) but use English name for the city (which gives us Kraków, and anybody who argues for old Cracow is welcome to move Kraków to Cracow first).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  05:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move to [[Kraków grosz]]

message: #Support per evidence below; as for Cracow, one battle at a time. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move to [[Cracow grosz]]

message: Google Print test
* Searching for "Kraków grosz" or "Krakow grosz": 0 books.
* Searching for "Cracow grosz": 2 books in English (mentioned below).
* Searching for "Kraków grosh", "Krakow grosh", "Cracow groschen", "Kraków groschen", "Krakau groschen", "Krakau grosz": 0 books.
* Searching for "Krakauer Groschen": 0 books in English (3 in German).
Google Scholar test
* Searching for "Kraków grosz" or "Krakow grosz": 0 results.
* Searching for "Cracow grosz": 0 results.
* Searching for "Kraków grosh", "Krakow grosh", "Cracow groschen", "Kraków groschen", "Krakow groschen", "Krakau groschen", "Krakauer Groschen", "Krakau grosz": 0 results.
Amazon.com test
* Searching for Kraków grosz or Krakow grosz: 1 book in English (mentioned below).
* Searching for Cracow grosz: 1 book in English (mentioned below).
* Searching for Kraków grosh, Krakow grosh, Cracow groschen, Krakau grosz: 0 books.
* Searching for Kraków groschen or Krakow groschen: 0 results (one book mentions the [...] attempt Casimir the Great to issue large groschen at Krakow in Poland...).
* Searching for Krakau groschen: 0 results in English (1 in German).
* Searching for Krakauer Groschen: 0 results in English (1 in German).
Best regards, Evv 03:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources