Talk:Free Republic/Archive 2

message: I'm deleting the reference. WP:CITE. See especially "disputed" section. Benburch, you seem to like digging through FR archives. How about you verify this thing? This stuff shouldn't be up there without a cite. Gordongekko909 01:08, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iranian Executions 

message: There is plenty of evidence of Freepers doubting Stephenson's claims, but is there anything actually linking FR or any of its members to "physical stalking" or "interference in fundraising?" I'm really wondering if this can get done without weasel words. Gordongekko909 02:04, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Andy Stephenson (again) 

message: My only reservation is that it is totally NOT about FR.  In the DU article, it might belong because it is peripherally about DU.  It would be as if I added a link to my http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org site to the DU page because so many DUers visit it on a daily basis. BenBurch 21:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  DUmmie FUnnies link 

message: ::I know this page is protected, but could one of the admins here replace the (dead) link to CP, which has relocated?
::Here's a link to their new board:
::http://www.clownposse.org/colloquy/index.php4
72.80.102.247 15:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No objection here. --Gordongekko909 00:09, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clown Posse

message: I would also like to add a further note in the extremism subsection noting that many Freepers despise Martin Luther King Jr. with appropriate links to multiple threads to prove it, because many Freepers considered King a " communist " and an "interloper".
: I think this is a good idea.  I would also reference threads regarding a proposed memorial to Dr. King, that contain mostly criticisms and slurs, even though Dr. King is generally and widely considered an American hero.  --Holdek (talk) 20:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  And Emmett Till. Some of the threads regarding the investigation of his murder on FR are repulsive at best. Here's one for starters: www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1421309/posts?q=1&&page=51  Hesperides 21:33, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Jlogajan, I have edited that last sentence you wrote on the grounds it violates non-neutrality and non-sensationalism.  "His now fully public anti-science attitude has precipitated a schism..." smacks of subjectivity. I have done what I could to bring some objectivity to that last sentence or two, while leaving the evidence in tact. Gregarious Lonewolf 17:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Allegations of Extremism

message: This is the first time I've looked at this article but I see some glaring examples of original research (forbidden by WP:NOR) and unsupported material.
1)There is no cite for Free Republic being accused of bigotry.  
2) The example of the supposed bigotry is simply a post from the website with no supporting citation as to what external source said this was an example of bigotry.  This is "textbook" original research. Lawyer2b 14:39, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research and unsupported information in Criticism section 

message: Here is a place to discuss the Stephenson matter. -Will Beback 00:01, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Andy Stephenson

message: I'm changing the name of this section to 'man arrested in bioterror threats alleged to have been FR member'
1) he was arrested and charged for this. 2) He sent letters to senators, Why was olbermann the only name listed? - F.A.A.F.A. 19:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: More documentation AND some levity - funny graphic Zaius Nation - F.A.A.F.A. 23:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Don't worry, Dominick, I am certain that "Mercilessly Edited" will kick in for that article presently.  :-)  BenBurch 06:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Captkangeroo is quite the writer! - F.A.A.F.A. 06:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: update Jim Bob has admiited that Castagana was a member "Unfortunately, looks like this guy did have an FR account. And even more unfortunately, we had not caught him yet. Chasing down Marc Costanzo's IP address and other Internet footprints, looks like he had at least four earlier FR accounts, each of which had been banned. He was a "retread troll." It happens. Jim Robinson" [www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1738800/posts thread] - F.A.A.F.A. 06:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Anthrax' dicussion - day two 

message: www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1738800/posts
Also, several Freepers are going to try vandalizing the article today. I'd suggest adding the Jim Robinson reference and then locking it. At least until the next death threat from the group. So basically, lock it for 2 hours. lol —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.33.185.185 (talk • contribs) .
:It doesn't matter, this wasn't planned, executed or even tolerated on FR. If he was a sometime poster on DU, would that mean we include it there as well? How about if he ate breakfast at Denny's where he read a newspaper, do we edit the Denny's entry to include the fact that the fake anthrax terrorist ate at Denny's? This inclusion lacks merit on it's face. Dominick (TALK) 16:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You have a valid point.  Somebody who used my website once killed his wife and then himself, and I do not feel responsible.  Nutjobs hang out everywhere online.  But the question arises, how then can FR take credit for the Killian documents? Sure it was posted there.  But it would have been posted somewhere else had FR not been around.  I think a neutral statement linking the malefactor's own Wiki page might be appropriate?  Like;  "Chad Castagana, accused by the FBI of sending terroristic fake anthrax letters to Liberal politicians and celebrities was a Freeper, and had been banned from Free Republic several times under various usernames."  What say you good people? BenBurch 16:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said, lets write, "Chad Castagana, accused by the FBI of sending terroristic fake anthrax letters to Liberal politicians and celebrities, eats breakfast at Dennys, uses AOL for internet, joined Sams club, had a library card and lets his wife vote on American Idol." None of the activities in question were coordinated, alluded to, or even known on FR. Nobody had any idea he was a terrorist. FR posting is tangential to this persons sick act of attacking a Congress critter. My point Ben is that he didn't use any FR resources to commit, plan, or even brag about this act. He was not a heavy poster, and he is not a chapter member as far as I know. Dominick (TALK) 17:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it does look like he posted what in retrospect was a brag, but it would have been hard to see it as such at the time as violent rhetoric directed at Liberal targets is fairly common on FR, and is generally understood to be just words in venting.  BenBurch 17:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not characterize that as indicating anthrax. As you recall Kazinski was a political liberal and used a bomb. Idiots abound. Dominick (TALK) 18:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, somebody will without a doubt keep adding NNPOV versions of this story indefinitely unless we have *some* mention here.  I don't think we want to revert that until the end of time.  BenBurch 17:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not take that as a good enough reason for inclusion. You didn't address my problem with the story. It is apparently there to make the reader conclude, as you may have, that FR breeds terrorists. IMHO, this violates NPOV by inclusion since FR had nothing to do with this moron. Anyone can register, and anyone can post. Anyone can eat at McDonalds, if he ate at McDs, does that mean hamburgers cause terrorism? Dominick (TALK) 18:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That isn't my conclusion at all!  What breeds terrorists is disaffection.  The malefactor in this case was a 39 year old unemployed electronics noodler who lived with his Mom and posted right-wing screeds and stalkerish peans to busty conservative media figures.  All Free Republic did was provide a place where he thought he could get away with posting that sort of thing.  But the story is now tied inextricably to Free Republic, even if that is not fair in the slightest.  Much like the suicide of Vince Foster was tied to the Clintons, or the death of William Casey by brain cancer has been tied to the Reagan administration.  Neither one is fair, but both are inextricable ties that would be appropriate for a neutral mention in articles about either.  BenBurch 18:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There WAS something fishy about Vince Foster. (thats a joke, but it was like a sardine) My apologies, I should not have put words in your mouth. He didn't use FR for anything related to the anthrax terror scare. It is patently unfair to include it here. I would say it is linked because some people have agendas, and wikipedia should not perpetuate that. Dominick (TALK) 19:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough, but if you don't want to have a revert war, leave my neutral mention there for at least a few weeks.  This is now too widely known not to have hoards descending on this page to add paragraphs and paragraphs on this that would be NNPOV in the extreme.  And I'd observe than the two other cases I mentioned were only linked because people had agendas as well.  BenBurch 19:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would like to note that I agree completly with Dominick that any mention of "some freeper did x" is totally unnaceptable irrelevent content for this crappy article. JBKramer 19:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, feel free to edit mercilessly until it is neither crappy nor lame!  That's what we are here for, right?  BenBurch 20:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ben has a point, but JBK does too. A lot of freepers think this article and wikipedia in general reflects a slant. Watch it closely, and lets monitor the debate. Dominick (TALK) 20:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: But that is how the slant arises, isn't it?  BenBurch 21:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: NPOV would be to remove it entirely. Like I said over and over again, he did not use FR or talk on FR concerning his attack. The only reason for inclusion would be to try and smear FR with a terrorist link. Accusing a site like FR with supporting or fostering terrorism by linking it with a sometime user lunatic is POV. Counts of 1000 postings on FR is nothing for most users. If we link him with FR, like I said before, then we have a million things that he can be linked. Does he eat at Dennys for example. Dominick (TALK) 21:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure why you say he didn't talk about the attacks on FR . I thought it was fairly clear that he'd done so before and after sending the letters. -Will Beback · † · 22:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed he did mention the letters and talked of anthrax.  He never did say "I sent them,"  but clearly he was fishing for validation and got some.  BenBurch 22:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To contend that any editor here is 'accusing FR with supporting or fostering terrorism', is the antithesis of AGF. This is a notable event in FR's history and as such, inclusion is mandated. - F.A.A.F.A. 23:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to link FR with a terrorist to support a foregone conclusion, then it must be included. So much for fairness. We wonder why people come here and criticize the article, it is because of this bias. If the person was in a yahoo chatroom doing this would we include his crimes on the yahoo page? If he discussed it over breakfast at Waffle House should we not post he did this and talked at Waffle House?Dominick (TALK) 23:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, if Waffle House had the sort of press for his eating there that FR has had for him being a poster, you could reasonably include that in the article on Waffle House.  BenBurch 23:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So now that your claim that Castagana "did not talk on FR concerning his attack" has been proven flase, you are arguing that documenting his link to FR means that it's a 'foregone conclusion' that anyone reading the article will think FR supports terrorism? I don't agree. Doesn't FR have some sort of warning about not threatening people, posting libelous claims, etc? If so, we could include that too, so people understand FR does not support terrorism. OK? (I wish we had the Waffle House chain in California! I love waffles!) - F.A.A.F.A. 00:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing was proven false. He did not coordinate these attacks on FR. Your goal is to link FR to a terrorist attack and it is inherently PoV.  Dominick (TALK) 02:18, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Re Olbermann and Chad:
Last September, Keith Olbermann got a threatening letter in his mail which spewed out white powder, Olbermann freaked out :-0 
""That Monosodium Glutamate will kill you every time :-)''
Keith is a whiny little b@tch !
Accepting that, I do not believe he sent it to himself . 
But that is just guess work .
215 posted on 10/28/2006 10:10:28 AM PDT by marc costanzo (Name your poison :-))[www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1727261/posts?page=230#230 see] 
Please don't delete this sourced, documented content again. Thanks - F.A.A.F.A. 04:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So much for fairness, currently you cant list things about a person that take inference or sourced directly. Thats is WP:BIO says you can't use a crystal ball to tar an individual. Text removed. Dominick (TALK) 13:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jim Robinson confirms it was a Freeper