Talk:Santa Ana winds

message: In southern California, Santa Ana winds occur from September until April, with a peak occurrence in November, December and January of more than 3 events/month (Raphael MN, 2003, The Santa Ana winds of California, Earth Interactions 7(8): 1-13).
Alanterra (talk) 22:18, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Season

message: On 21 Oct 2004 large section of this article was deleted by 67.171.229.13. I reverted it to the previous version (20:38, 25 Sep 2004). Rsduhamel 07:41, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: The link in the article goes to a different article, which doesn't seem to explain what it is (to me, anyway).
Can someone explain to me how adiabatic warming works in this case? Santa Ana events often have temperature increases of 10–20° C, which corresponds to an altitude loss of 1,500–3,000 m. Yet if the high pressure system is over the Great Basin, average elevation is not really high enough to create this temperature difference (even before allowing for heat loss as the air flows 500+ km). Alanterra (talk) 22:22, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adiabatic Warming 

message: A Fohn wind results from precipitation on the windward side of a mountain range which releases latent heat into the atmosphere which is then warmer on the leeward side (e.g. the Chinook or the original Fohn).  The Santa Ana winds do not originate in precipitation, but in the bone-dry high deserts.  The Santa Ana is actually not a Foehn.  It has in common only the adiabatic compressive heating caused when the air descends from the high desert down to sea level. Tmangray (talk) 06:47, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Not a Fohn

message: The literature section includes a bullet point stating that " Richard Henry Dana's 1840 journal/book, "Two Years Before the Mast" includes a description of a wind event that can only be categorized as a "Santa Ana."  The author never mentions the word "Santa Ana" but his description is unmistakable."  This appears to be original research on the part of the editor.  No reliable source has been given that draws this conclusion.  I will leave this on for a few days per policy with this tag, but unless a citation is given it should be deleted. Alanraywiki (talk) 05:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appearance of original research in literature 

message: The song; "Indian Summer",  mentions Santa Ana winds.68.231.189.108 (talk) 21:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Indian Summer

message: The novel; "California Gold"; by John Jakes; copyr. 1989 by Random House; mentions: " Santan winds"--I have never heard of this, I think it is a spelling error for "Santan";  or "Santa Ana", as I  always heard it. He mentions "earpiece" when he means "receiver" of a telephone, so it is probably an error..68.231.189.108 (talk) 21:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: California Gold

message: On many occasions when we experience elevated temperatures and high north-easterly winds in So. California, the weather reports identify the source as a high pressure system located over the Four Corners region. If memory serves, these also occur most frequently from September through November, although they can happen at any time of year.
Presumably, meteorologists are referring to the Colorado Plateau with this language, and not the Great Basin. The Geography section of the WP Four Corners article notes that the area is "...a center for weather systems, which stabilize on the plateau then proceed eastward through Colorado and into the central states." The high pressure systems that affect So. California also tend to stabilize, and create elevated wind and temperature events that often last 1-3 weeks.
Do meteorologists also regard these as Santa Ana wind events? Are they also drainage winds, coming as they do off of a high plateau? The article does indicate that winds from the Great Basin are also driven by high pressure systems... --96.251.23.32 (talk) 15:00, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In terms of the large-scale (synoptic scale) high-pressure systems that cause Santa Anas, the Great Basin and Four Corners aren't that far apart. The inflowing airmass to Southern California will simply have a small difference in angular direction, but as the air compresses and descends the mountain passes, it becomes irrelevant. So, yes. Darkest tree (talk) 22:46, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geographical sources 

message: First, let me say that I wish as much time and effort were devoted to the science and meteorology content of this article as has been devoted to finding obscure mention of the Santa Ana winds in song lyrics and movies. It irks me that every time we have a Santa Ana wind event (you could practically chart them based on dates of edits to this article) people rush here to either vandalize the article or police up all the pop culture content. 
That said (rant over), the Santa Ana winds are a major phenomenon in Southern California life. It's about the closest thing we have to major severe weather here. So, as long as we're going to have a list of mentions of Santa Ana winds in pop culture, I don't really think that any mention is too small or too trivial to include. All of this art, music, and movies touch on the Santa Ana winds because they're a big deal to us here. Maybe the MoS says otherwise, in which case I'll defer to whatever consensus emerges regarding this list of trivia, but that's where I stand. 
The Raymond Chandler Red Wind quote, in particular, is one of the most famous and widely-recognized descriptions of the Santa Ana winds and definitely is significant enough to merit inclusion in this article. Maybe it even belongs at the top. 
Consider this my challenge to the  tag that appeared today. Darkest tree (talk) 22:41, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw that user Nikkimaria went through and removed a lot of this material, including the Raymond Chandler quote, as well as the  tag, without any explanation and probably without reading the talk page. I undid the edit. Darkest tree (talk) 20:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Also I would point to this: Wikipedia:"In popular culture" content, which generally supports this approach. Darkest Tree Talk 17:11, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular Culture section 

message: Just to summarize what I believe is the consensus here (correct me if I'm completely wrong): We're keeping the Raymond Chandler quote and the Joan Didion quote, as they are two of the best representations of Santa Ana winds being mentioned in literature. Everything else, from songs to TV shows to movies to other book quotes, is going into the Santa Ana winds in popular culture fork article. Because every time we have a few days of Santa Ana winds in southern California, the IP editors come running to add yet another pop culture reference to the Santa Ana winds, to the point that it's way too much trivial content for the main article. Darkest Tree Talk 17:02, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Also I would point to this: Wikipedia:"In popular culture" content, which generally supports this approach. Darkest Tree Talk 17:11, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Summary of Consensus

message: reference 4, pointing to an article in the archives of the OC Register, and which is used 3 times, is gone. :( could probably be replaced with more links to http://people.atmos.ucla.edu/fovell/ASother/mm5/SantaAna/winds.html mostly 73.223.247.225 (talk) 06:13, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  reference gone 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following was removed from the etymology section. It has no references and seems to contradict other parts that are referenced. Adding it here in case there's anything that can be salvaged.
The original term and translation for the destructive dry, strong, winds from the east in southern California, southwestern central California, and northwest Mexico, is the Spanish/Mexican “Vientos Santana”, translated into English originally as “Santana Winds,” “Satan’s Winds,” “Devil Winds” but not “Santa Ana Winds.” These Santana Winds caused fires, death, dehydration, ships to go off course, destruction of agriculture, farming, livestock, homes, villages, towns, cities, medical problems long before California became a State. Because the destruction was so severe, it was suggested by locals of prior centuries, the winds could be only from “Santana,” English translation “The Devil,” “Satan.” It is suspected the term “Vientos Santana” “Santana Winds” originated in part from the language of the local Native Indians who would have also experienced the same destruction from these winds.
The term “Santa Ana Winds” is a new age term, a modern Californized, Americanized, Anglo version of what was originally and historically called the “Santana Winds” in California resulting from the slower, less romantic language or less Latin based pronunciation, and a more enunciated and deliberate form of speech increasing in southern California in 1950’s.
California was previously Mexico where little of any English was previously spoken prior to Statehood.  Spanish in Mexican dialect and various Native Indian languages were the language of residents prior to the Europeans in California.  Hence, there were no Anglo terms or syntax such as “Santa Ana” divided or English words like  “Winds” used by historical locals to describe the destructive winds they also experienced leading up to their name for such winds. The Anglo term “Santa Ana Winds,” the town of Santa Ana, California, and the city of Santa Ana, California did not yet exist when the term “Santana Winds” translated from “Vientos Santana” was being uttered by English speaking persons in California to describe southern California’s dry, strong winds.
The reference to the City of Santa Ana is incorrectly attributed and coincidence a result of person mis-attributing the wind name “Santanas” to a small location or small area where the winds also occurred.  Many who could locate and identify with the area of Santa Ana in Orange County, California falsely believed the winds were in reference and based upon the town and city merely because the dry winds were known to be in that area. Persons who identified with the town and city of Santa Ana as the (false) basis for the name of “Santa Ana Winds” were probably unfamiliar with the fact the winds existed and were started elsewhere outside of the Santa Ana, California area, or these persons may not have been nor had family members native to the southern area of California.  Additionally, travel was not mainstream, not as affordable, nor as convenient at that time when the myth that the town and City of San Ana was the same or the result of the “Santana Winds.” It is also suspected these persons were also unaware the original term’s translation from the Spanish/Mexican’s original phrase “Vientos Sanatana,” was “Devil Winds” and “Santana Winds” not “Santa Ana” thereby creating a false perception and misapplication that the city of Santa Ana was named in or around 1869 from the winds or the winds were named because of the city when the reference “Santa Ana” did not yet exist for the winds.
The destructive, dry winds do not merely blow in the smaller area of Santa Ana or its easterly mountains or area. The winds are also in, for example, Campo, Carlsbad, Fallbrook, Pauma, Point Loma, San Diego, at the United States border with Mexico, Los Angeles, Riverside, Azusa, Malibu, south and south east in Mexico, north into Ventura County, all nowhere in proximity to what is now called the city of Santa Ana and the Santa Ana mountains.  Any relation to the town or city of Santa Ana is made up and a false attribution of the Spanish/Mexican term “Vientos Santana” and its original English translation used in California “Santana Winds.”
It’s coincidence one area that has Santana Winds is the city of Santa Ana. Moreover, “Santa Ana” was not in use as the term for the dry, strong winds at the time the area and city of Santa Ana was named, founded in 1869. The term still in use then and widely utilized until approximately the 1950s was “Santana Winds” according to local newspaper reporting.
The original authentic translation to describe the destructive, dry, strong, winds was somewhat “dumbed down,” as new age persons sometimes use to describe such things or so to speak.  The destruction of the original translation of “Vientos Santana” to “Santana Winds” from Spanish/Mexican into “Santa Ana Winds” came about locally and spread as local Anglo persons became employed to distribute verbal reporting of weather reports as opposed to written reports about these winds and the harm the winds caused. These reporters, weatherpersons, and airway news stations personnel, not always having a Mexican accent, not understanding the term completely or how to pronounce it properly, but rather being Southern California accent neutral, mispronounced “Santana” into “Santa Ana” to viewers and communities in an attempt to enunciate all the letters in an Anglo style of “Santana” as broadcasting taught.
Thereafter, Californias and others hearing the mispronounced word on broadcasts, began to believe “Santana” was an incorrect pronunciation and came to perceive “Santa Ana” was the correct proniucation when it was not.  As a result of relying in the perceived authority and perceived expertise of the audio reporters, viewers also began mispronouncing “Santana Winds” into “Santa Ana Winds.” Hence, this caused the destruction of the actual original translation of “Santanas” placing emphasis on Saint (Santa) Ana.  The Latin/Mexican term more emphasized the Santana or Satan portion of the term.
The original term “Vientos Santana” and translated to “Santana Winds” was never meant to emphasize Satan in a respectful manner by capitalizing and splitting from Santana to Santa Ana as Caucian California’s began to do.  Mexico had become a Roman Catholic country fearing the devil and Santana which is Spanish/Mexican for Devil. Hence, to capitalize and divide into a title Santana into Santa Ana and thereby give respect to Satan’s name would not have been prompted in translating Vientos Santana to Sant Ana Winds in California it is deduced.
As of April 2018, in California and Mexico, the destructive, dry  winds are still referred to as “Santanas” and “Santana Winds” instead of “Santa Anas” or “Santa Ana Winds” by not only those of Mexican heritage, but by some locals knowing the original and correct translation was altered into “Santa Ana’s” in error.
Abergabe (talk) 15:26, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rambling Etymology 

message: Why are songs listed in this section? 208.69.184.59 (talk) 01:35, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Movie references 

message: This section needs correcting.
     "In early December 2011, the Santa Ana winds were the strongest yet recorded. An atmospheric set-up occurred that allowed the towns of Pasadena and Altadena in the San Gabriel Valley to get whipped by sustained winds at 97 mph (156 km/h), and gusts up to 167 mph (269 km/h). The winds toppled thousands of trees, knocking out power for over a week. Schools were closed, and a "state of emergency" was declared. The winds grounded planes at LAX, destroyed homes, and were even strong enough to snap a concrete stop light from its foundation. The winds also ripped through Mammoth Mountain and parts of Utah. Mammoth Mountain experienced a near-record wind gust of 175 mph (282 km/h), on December 1, 2011."
I live in Altadena and Pasadena and experienced the December 1, 2011 event. While it was certainly a powerful windstorm, and possibly the strongest Santa Ana windstorm ever recorded in Southern California, we most certainly did not see sustained winds of 97 MPH gusting to 167. The 97 MPH figure appears to come from a maximum wind gust at Whitaker Peak in the Grapevine, nowhere near Pasadena. The 167 MPH figure is from a faulty weather station on Henninger Flats in the Angeles National Forest. Not only is that station far too high (likely still gusted >100 MPH, though), it wasn't in the city. I've heard reports of 135 MPH at JPL and 92 MPH in old town Pasadena as maximum gusts, not sustained. Those sound more reasonable and in line with the damage observed throughout the valley. Cityscaper (talk) 19:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pasadena and Altadena