Talk:Titus Flavius Clemens (consul)

message: This article does not appear to be based on historical fact, but on perhaps legendary sources concerning the life of one Rabbi Akiva. I question the point of view. What are the sources? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Probus Manlius (talk • contribs) 
Needs serious work to find out which stories are Talmudic and which Christian and which from classical sources. User|Neddyseagoon 17:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One place to start, which is more recent than the secondary sources alluded to here, is E. Mary Smallwood, "Domitian's Attitude toward the Jews and Judaism", Classical Philology, 51 (1956), pp. 1-13. She reviews the material about Clemens, his wife, as well as Domitian's third named victim, Manius Acilius Glabrio, & concludes that the evidence for anyone being a Christian is very thin. (Jerome is one of the earliest sources to claim that Clemens' wife was a Christian, writing about 300 years after the fact.) More likely Clemens & Flavia were Jewish converts, & most likely they were "God-fearers" -- "gentiles on the fringe of Judaism who were attracted by that religion to the extent of adopting its monotheism and moral code and of conforming to the major requirenments of the Jewish Law", but had not completely embraced that religion. I am still trying to unravel the fact from the legends & myths around Clemens, Flavia, Acilius Glabrio & Acilia Priscilla. -- llywrch (talk) 07:26, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Titus Flavius Clemens was son of Titus Flavius Sabinus III, consul suffectus in AD 69. Titus Flavius Sabinus III was son of Titus Flavius Sabinus (consul AD 47). — Андрей Бондарь (talk) 17:53, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Titus Flavius Sabinus III or Titus Flavius Sabinus II 

message: Someone tagged this and "Flavius Clement" for merger.  The latter article is much shorter than this (about two lines), confuses him with his father, and seems to imply unequivocally that he was a Christian martyr, although the evidence for this is ambivalent.  Otherwise it clearly is about the same person, and presumably should be merged, although there's not much that would need to be added to the present article.  P Aculeius (talk) 14:54, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: As I noted above, centuries later many Christians believed some Senators converted to Christianity; however, there are no clear examples of Senators converting to Christianity prior to the 4th century. (Depending on how much one wants to trust the average saint's life, there are a few possible examples.) About all one could do in merging these two articles would be to add a paragraph detailing that a later Christian writer -- Jerome & Eusebius tend to be the usual suspects -- believed this person had converted to Christianity without providing any evidence. (I've had a problem finding any information whether the belief Glabrio Acilius was Christian extends before the 19th century, when a number of archeological finds suggested he may have been part of the Early Christian community. If so, then there is a slim possibility this might be so; but from what I've found so far, this belief arose after those materials were recovered.) -- llywrch (talk) 20:06, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  There isn't really anything to merge from Flavius Clement: that he was executed for his Christianity is at best unproven, and the possibility is already discussed in the target article; that he was the brother of Vespasian appears to be wrong; and that he was married to Flavia Domitilla is already mentioned in the target.  So I have simply turned that article into a redirect to this one. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 19:13, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal