Talk:Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization

message: If someone is reading this article he or she might think that the people from IMRO/VMRO were a bit confused if they were Bulgarian IMRO or just IMRO. That was not the case. It was two separate antagonist organizations (federalist/socialist/center left versus fascist/far right). Both wings had and have a very strong pro-Macedonian or pro-Bulgarian standpoints. We can see a historical development of two streams that are ideologically completely different, but having the same name. Maybe it is good to clear a bit in this article by splitting it in two.
1) IMRO/VMRO is a revolutionary organization for liberation of Macedonia and autonomy within the Ottoman empire (or federation of Balkan states). It became leftist and socialist before WW2 and organized the Macedonian Liberation War against fascist Bulgaria and Germany (it dissolved because Republic of Macedonia became an autonomous part of Yugoslavia, a partial federation of Balkan states). VMRO-DPMNE came out in the stage in the 1990s taking the name of a dissolved organization. Despite its proclamation as a "right" party, VMRO-DPMNE is still center-leftist in its politics of subsidies, populism, etc. For the ethnic Macedonians, the socialism and nationalism went hand in hand. The Macedonian nationalism was historically and is non xenophobic, but cosmopolitan (ethnic Macedonian living jointly with other ethnicities) as written in the Krushevo Maniphesto. 
2) BIMRO/BVMRO is a wing of IMRO/VMRO that fought for liberation of Macedonia as part of San Stefano's Bulgaria. It was led by Macedonian intelligentsia in Bulgaria and fought for national Bulgarian interests. This wing became fascist before WW2 and kept its far right position until today. Today's IMRO-SMD or IMRO-BNM are Bulgarian nationalist far right party like the Party of the Swedes or Golden Dawn in Greece. These parties are often considered as xenophobic.
Toci (talk) 21:15, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting the IMRO/VMRO article in two separate articles 1) Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO/VMRO) and 2) Bulgarian Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (BIMRO/BVMRO) 

message: "After Hristo Tatarchev's "Memoirs" its first name since 1894 was Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (MRO). Ivan Hadzhinikolov in his memoirs underlines the five basic principles of the MRO's foundation ..."
In fact, Tatarchev did not point out that this has been the first name - he wrote why and how a Macedonian revolutionary organization has been established but the name itself is not explicitly indicated in his memories. The only reliable source regarding the initial name is the Statute of the Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committees, where the organisation is clearly named. The first registered name is therefore BMARC, rather than MRO!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.73.146.73 (talk) 23:03, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  First name of the organisation 

message: Please, provide reference or source that the name of the organisation was written in Macedonian language since it was established in 1893 to its ban in 1934. If no I will remove this later transcription as inappropriate. Thanks. Jingby (talk) 18:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You know well that the modern Macedonian language standards were setup later, but it is not a reason for removal of the Macedonian transcription. IMRO was an organization that fought under the slogan "Macedonia for Macedonians" and the organization has importance for both modern Macedonia and Bulgaria, so the name of the organization written in Macedonian language is relevant and appropriate. If we follow your logic, what would be the next step, removing Macedonian transcription in Goce Delcev and Gjorche Petrov articles?MatriX (talk) 19:12, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said, the Macedonian naming is appropriate and it cannot be excluded because we are talking here about an organization that was fighting for Macedonian autonomy or independence in the Balkan region and it this organization played a key importance for the ethnic Macedonian struggle for independence and national awakening, therefore I'll reinsert the Macedonian transcription (I'm wondering why it is so irritating to a few Bulgarian editors).MatriX (talk) 13:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

text: The organization and its activities inspired and accelerated the movement to build (or strengthen) a separate Macedonian identity and state and from the current perspective it is significant to have the name of the organization written in Macedonian language. MatriX (talk) 09:27, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name of IMRO in Macedonian 

message: Semiprotected for one month due to edit-warring. The article is being rapidly reverted by IPs with few edits who have never commented on the Talk page.  I take note that User:Laveol, though he's an experienced editor, ought to participate on the talk page as well. People seem to be very concerned about which tags should go on the article, but I see no discussion about tags here.  Two things usually go together: an article tag plus the explanation (on the talk page) of what  problem ought to be fixed. EdJohnston (talk) 02:43, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ummm, but there is not a number of editors concerned with this, instead just one vandal with a floating IP address who was already blocked for spamming the same tags on at least a hundred articles. Of course when he got blocked he just changed his IP and continued to do the same. his edits and block log. There has not been a line dropped on the talkpage on this and since I know this annon for quite a time, he will not try to write here. I've tried to contact him at least a dozen times before, but he just refuses to take part in any discussion. As for the language: that's the stable version of the article with the names in Bulgarian and Macedonian. It's been here forever and their usage makes sense. The annon (that's why I called him a vandal) just ges around and removes the Bulgarian name. Again, no explanations (not that there could be any). --Laveol T 09:14, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Great, now we have the attention of a sock-puppet as well. User 8MA8 is a sockpuppet of a single-purpose account User:Micoapostolov. I'm not sure why the case was closed without a resulting block, but it was more than clear. If anyone has any objections to the removal of the tags, please, post them here. If not, I'll consider it as disruptive behaviour (which it actually is since we got two sockpuppeteers involved). --Laveol T 16:11, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Coming to think more about it, I do suppose that the sockpuppet that was last to edit is actually a sock of the same person that does the annon edits. I'll be filling a checkuser request once I dig up all the clues. --Laveol T 16:14, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Here's the case. --Laveol T 16:20, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Ed, is it legit to use check user in this case? The guy editing has already used sockpuppets. I also noticed that the IP and the registered user edit those pages in almost the same time (with only two minutes between them - just the time to log off and load the other page). --Laveol T 19:05, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semiprotected 

message: I think that Treaty of Niš is obviously very important for activities of IMRO and should have its place in the article. I propose to add below sentence after "IMRO began sending armed bands called cheti into Greek and Yugoslav Macedonia and Thrace to assassinate officials and stir up the spirit of the oppressed population.":
Оn March 23, 1923 Aleksandar Stamboliyski signed the Treaty of Niš with the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes and undertook the obligation to suppress the operations of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO) carried out from Bulgarian territory.
--Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:10, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Treaty of Niš (1923) 

message: This article needs again semi-protection to prevents edits from unregistered user, as well as edits from accounts that are not autoconfirmed. A sock of a banned  who is a spam-tags puser is here again under . Before that he was active here under multiple IP-s and nick-names as    and others and has been trying to insert different tags as a spam. Jingby (talk) 11:02, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Encyclopedia Britannica is usually accepted as a reliable source. Editors who can locate good work by historians may be able to expand the article to supply a better-balanced picture. EdJohnston (talk) 18:15, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: This article needs to be semi-protected

message: I suggest that the long vertical sidebar be transformed into a horizontal gallery. They would take less space that way, and most readers of the enwiki can't read Bulgarian anyway, so a clickable thumbnail with English under it should suffice. See for example Siege of Rhodes (1522)#Gallery; I chose this particular example to show that you can have plenty of text under each photo. Have mörser, will travel (talk) 16:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statues bar 

message: Please, stop reverting this page and adding incorrecrt info. Neither Macedonian language, nor Macedonian nation existed at the time of the IMRO (1893-1934). Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 11:23, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blatant POV 

message: This record is supposedly mentioned in Документи за борбата на македонскиот народ за самостојност и за национална држава (Skopje, 1981) in relation to the naming controversy, but it doesn't seem to exist (see ). It could be that someone copied the wrong record number from the book (Документи за борбата...). If anyone has access to it, it would be nice to verify. Tropcho (talk) 13:19, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign office record 78/4951 

message: What does "internal" mean in this case? --YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 02:11, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internal 

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I have just modified 4 external links on Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111006202334/http://www.macedoniainfo.com/Independent_Macedonia.htm to http://www.macedoniainfo.com/Independent_Macedonia.htm
*Added  tag to http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro-istorija/Knigi/spomht03.htm
*Added  tag to http://library.ferris.edu/~cochranr/stone/stone2c3.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040210185155/http://www.vmro-dpmne.org.mk/index.asp to http://www.vmro-dpmne.org.mk/index.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061022043326/http://www.makedonskaistorija.com/media/1/20050517-UstavBMORKw.jpg to http://www.makedonskaistorija.com/media/1/20050517-UstavBMORKw.jpg
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050210165854/http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bmork.htm to http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bmork.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The first name of the IMRO was "Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committees", which was later changed several times. Initially its membership was restricted only for Bulgarians. It was active not only in Macedonia but also in Thrace (the Vilayet of Adrianople). Since its early name emphasized the Bulgarian nature of the organisation by linking the inhabitants of Thrace and Macedonia to Bulgaria, these facts are still difficult to be explained from the Macedonian historiography. They suggest that IMRO revolutionaries in the Ottoman period did not differentiate between ‘Macedonians’ and ‘Bulgarians’. Moreover, as their own writings attest, they often saw themselves and their compatriots as ‘Bulgarians’ and wrote in Bulgarian standard language. After the WWI the organization split in Macedonian and Thracian parts. For more see: Brunnbauer, Ulf (2004) Historiography, Myths and the Nation in the Republic of Macedonia. In: Brunnbauer, Ulf, (ed.) (Re)Writing History. Historiography in Southeast Europe after Socialism. Studies on South East Europe, vol. 4. LIT, Münster, pp. 165-200 ISBN 382587365X. Jingiby (talk) 12:17, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Short description 

message: The official language was Macedonian. 46.164.24.198 (talk) 12:43, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:54, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 6 May 2022 

message: Wrong flag colours and Macedonia was also a large speaking language within the IMRO members 92.53.35.232 (talk) 18:43, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:50, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2022