Talk:Amelia Earhart/Archive 9

message: I am slightly concerned about the nature of the discussions on this page. It appears that some of the editors have taken to attacking the others. Can I put this really simply? Comment on content, not contributors. The whole of the above thread appears to be an attack on Matt. The whole of the thread before that appears to be an attack on the article and its contributors. All users should calm down a little. Don't complain about each other, and don't troll.
Meanwhile, if Matt wants to take a time out from editing the article, he is completely free to do so. Please, however, don't make a big fuss about it. Leave the article and the talk page for a while, and don't make constant comments such as 'Rather than risking a permanent block on all my contributions to Wikipedia I will never make another change to the article.' There was no posse against you. I agree that it would have been unreasonable if you had been blocked for the whole discussion, but there were three more days afterwards. The consensus, as I impartially read it, was to maintain the former edition of the article.
IMHO, too much discussion has been wasted on this and if it continues it will just go round in circles. There is no more evidence. When there is, please carry on. I hope that helps. ck lostsword•T•C 17:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not used to being part of a french bombardier committee. I'll try not to jack with anyone's rate line or jossle their elbow. I do have a bit of trouble dealing with the concept that speculation is equally valid as known fact. Nor is it easy to adapt to the idea that when writing history (which is what we are doing on this article) one be expected to NOT attempt to discern between the two. It must have been a bad upbringing by some good professors.Mark Lincoln 18:52, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They have searched the ocean floor twice in the last decade.  No Electra.  They have searched Nikumaroro dozens of times in the past decades.  No Earhart, Noonan, or Electra. Matt605 21:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thread seems to be open to comment and corrections.  Mark errantly spelled "adapt" as "adopt".  People "adapt to" not "adopt to". Matt605 21:22, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Please read the note above, this discussion thread is closed. Bzuk 21:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If the thread is closed, then why do you continue to post to it? Matt605 21:58, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:PANIC|Woah, there!]] 

message: In her lifetime and after, a whole range of dolls, trinkets and souvenirs were created to exploit the Earhart image. Is there need to remark on this marketing ploy? FWIW Bzuk 21:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so. It might seem unsavory, but it certainly wasn't. She was a self-promoter, she was doing what it took to keep flying. Endorsing Amelia Earhart, this and AE that, and cigarettes, was part of the game (scam?)Mark Lincoln 21:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't disparaging her and her husband (promoter/manager)'s afforts at increasing public awareness or in selling a very saleable image, I was looking for an appropriate place to include a comment- perhaps in "Celebrity image". FWIW, there is still a range of products sold to this day with the Earhart image, including her luggage. I noted that a few years ago, Corgi Toys turned out a very passable fascimle of her Lockheed Vega as a Christmas collectable. Flick the prop and a small electric motor would spin the propeller; it made a nice souvenir. Bzuk 22:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Popular culture references

message: I have waited for several days for someone to edit the radio transmissions section of the article to conform with what is known from events at the time. I decided to act. I would rather that those who I have communicated with would have done it as I feel that I am too closely identified with the traditional view of events for my efforts to go unchallanged. I have tried to not go into the signals which were 'heard', who heard them, the political and press situation, and the response of the various officials and agencies. We are not editing the "AE search and rescue circus article." I am aware that if AE and Noonan were down near Howland, the hoax about them being down 281 miles north west of Howland reduced their chances of rescue fatally. I am also aware that the Colorado's floatplanes searched without results the Phoenix Islands instead of more probable regions near Howland. The people at the time were doing what they could to locate and rescue the aviators. The people relaying reports of hearing signals were in most cases certainly trying to help. Despite the best efforts of everyone, the situation was grim. There were some folks who were no doubt engaged in hoaxes. There were also some folks calling AE on her favored frequency and might have been heard - garbled - by others as well intentioned. One thing is clear. There was no island 281 miles NW of Howland and no one saw an Electra down on the land in the Phoenix Islands.Mark Lincoln 23:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit of radio transmissions 

message: Recently a documentary about Penguins achieved a certain political correctness in the USA. I did not understand this as Penguins are birds and respond to far more fundamental forces than Political Correctness.
Penguins tend to bunch up at the edge of the ice and wait for another Penguin to dive in and find out if an Orca or Sea Lion is waiting for lunch. If no one dives in, the ones in back press until someone falls in.
Nice guys. Very "Family Values."Mark Lincoln 00:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ? Bzuk 00:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Thank you for diving in. I wasn't waiting because I was timid; I was waiting because I wasn't as expert in the subject. Interested, yes; expert, no. The article fairly shines now. Binksternet 02:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I second that, not that I didn't want to do it but I was waiting for a new source which was delayed in the mails. However, you did make the plunge! Bzuk 02:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Penguins 

message: Someone added ", later identified as Winslow Reef.[88] " to the line about the reported signals from AE claiming to be on an uncharted island 281 miles NW of Howland. I realize that this helps with the argument that she was transmitting as said broadcast was the only one giving a precise location but the person making the post overlooked a few vital facts:
Winslow Reef is at 01°36'S, 174°51' W.
Howland Island is at 00°13' N, 176°38' W.
Thus Winslow Reef is SE of Howland, and could not be the "unknown" (and non-existent) island specified in the broadcast giving AE's alleged position. Nice try, but no cigar. Get a map.Mark Lincoln 16:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoops, that was me, Winslow Reef was indeed part of the search but I may have placed the note about it in the wrong location. The location of Winslow Reef had been marked on charts as an undetermined position and resulted in a frustrating search as the carrier pilots could not locate the reef that may have been submerged. I am at my office and do not have any references so I may just take out the reference to Winslow Reef out of the equation. FWIW Bzuk 18:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is typical of those sneaky reefs, they hide under water and catch unsuspecting ships. ;-)Mark Lincoln 21:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Search Efforts, Winslow Reef