Talk:Chalga

message: i also dare say that chalga is not 'wildly acclaimed' by foreigners. most people that i have played chalga to are curious, but remain rather indifferent to its musical qualities, these ranging from americans to people from Turkey. the article which serves as a reference here is by an american who comes to like some tracks of the music, but is later unhappy with the entertainment it offers (based mostly on her observation that people in the most famous bulgarian chalga club are fat and dressed inaccodingly). i am not sure whether this article is a reliable source, and certainly not in the way it is interpreted. i also do not think that the word 'bias' is correct as it has negative connotation. there are prejudices and critics about the music by intellectuals as there are to many simplistic pop genres. the controversy about chalga is about it as a cultural phenomenon and about the values some of its performers openly adopt, and about the extreme controversy it generates itself on purpose, marketing them wildly. again, since this is the discussion page, i am presenting some opinions and/or facts and i do not insist that they conclude it in any way.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.159.119.210 (talk) 03:04, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: Tried to make the entry more neutral in tone; still needs work and better organization, so leaving the Wikify template in. One aspect relates to turbofolk: underground and vulgar revolutionary music appears to have been a common movement in the formerly communist Eastern bloc nations -- perhaps good for a separate article on this, with links to the different musical styles? Deirdre 22:04, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV, turbofolk 

message: Meh, why is this article so negative?  look at any style of music, no matter how it "sucks" the article itself rarely devotes the bulk of the first section to why it sucks.  come on! Dan Carkner 14:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  negative 

message: I removed the text "sexually explicit lyrics" from the article. There are no sexually explicit lyrics in chalga as far as I know. In Bulgaria, they are common only in the hip-hop/rap music as far as I know. --V111P 01:53, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  no sexually explicit lyrics 

message: The article currently says, in a section attempting to explain why there was official disapproval of the genre:
:Such simple peasant music had no place in a forward-looking, modern socialist state ...
I challenge this statement. Based on my knowledge of Bulgarian folk music, if anything, the state (that is, the Communist Bulgarian government) threw its full support behind state ensembles that exalted this music ("simple peasant music"). I think the other conclusions of this section are correct, that chalga was dissed because of its "lewd" and sensual nature. +ILike2BeAnonymous 20:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Challenging reasons given for official disapproval of chalga 

message: what?  --chaizzilla 04:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  slavi *replaced* chalga? 

message: There are many, many instances in this article that are subtle insults of the genre, or in some way express the author's opinion of the genre while *pretending* to be neutral.  It is clearly one-sided, and does not meet Wikipedia's standards.  Of the many claims, none have sources and are not verifiable.  The English page and the Bulgarian page have different content.
Please, if you can't keep your personal bias out of your writing, do not write for Wikipedia.  This is an encyclopedia and must remain neutral.
Some examples:
 - "lyrics are generally considered to be banal and pointless by most educated Bulgarians"
 - "epitomizes the cheap and addictive quality of the genre."
 - "Chalga is also frequently tied to the so-called mafia or crime thug figures who have made fortunes in narcotics, prostitution, and human trafficing. These thugs are often seen at chalga clubs proudly displaying their wives and girlfriends with their enormous silicone-filled breasts and high heels."
This sort of writing continues pervades the entire article.
From the official policy:
Fairness of tone
If we are going to characterize disputes neutrally, we should present competing views with a consistently fair and sensitive tone. Many articles end up as partisan commentary even while presenting both points of view. Even when a topic is presented in terms of facts rather than opinion, an article can still radiate an implied stance through either selection of which facts to present, or more subtly their organization.
We should write articles with the tone that all positions presented are at least plausible, bearing in mind the important qualification about extreme minority views. We should present all significant, competing views sympathetically. We can write with the attitude that such-and-such is a good idea, except that, in the view of some detractors, the supporters of said view overlooked such-and-such a detail. Glacialfury 22:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good 'nuf. However, I'd just like to point out that the first example you gave above (the statement "lyrics are generally considered to be banal and pointless by most educated Bulgarians"), could be an admissible statement here if one could demonstrate (ideally with a citation of some kind) that "most educated Bulgarians" do indeed share this opinion of chalga. I bring this up because, in my travels to Bulgaria, I did find this to be true among at least the educated Bulgarians I came into contact with. Chalga is indeed quite controversial within Bulgaria. The other two statements you listed are, indeed, just opinions and don't belong here, but the first statement could be a verifiable one. It's the difference between saying "chalga sucks" and "so-and-so says chalga sucks" (with a reference, of course). +ILike2BeAnonymous 23:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True. I'm married to a Bulgarian, and have traveled there several times.  There is a strong latent discrimination toward anything Turkish or Roma in the culture, which given the history is understandable, but not justifiable.  This discriminatory bias leaks everywhere into Bulgarian culture, particularly where there is some cultural blending.  I agree with you about that first statement in principle, however I feel that the original author's *intent* is to imply that "educated Bulgarians" does not include Roma, Turks, or other ethnic minorities - it is used as a subtle insult to say "only dumb people and gypsies listen to this crap."  Could be my opinion, but the overall tone of that article leads me to that conclusion. Glacialfury 13:49, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I've cut out most of the statements that were blatantly discriminatory, and moved those that have a place in the article to their own section, as there is no question that those views exist in Bulgaria - I believe they have a legitimate place in the article, but not infused throughout.  Also added citation tags to various statements and sections where many statements are unsourced.  I'm more than happy to discuss any of these changes if anyone feels them unwarranted.  Let's keep this article clean. Glacialfury 14:59, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: These are facts, dude. Please don't throw aside every negative word, because of it's vulgar essence. The world of chalga is degenerate and grim. Don't say that such opinion is biased until you see for yourself.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by KucheKlizma (talk • contribs) 09:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article fraught with opinions and without sources 

message: The criticisim section starts off with "Chalga is popular", there is no actual criticism in the section (ok only the last sentence is criticism, but its only 27 words out of the 143 total).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.139.49.180 (talk) 00:32, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section contains no criticism 

message: I noticed that this page is very attractive for vandalism. I think that this article needs some kind of protection from future attempts of vandalism. 
Beargrownnn (talk) 03:29, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Many attempts to Vandalize the article

message: Although the Turkish origin of the word "Chalga" is clearly verified by the given source (and many more can be included if necessary), the User Olsonspterom keeps deleting the relevant category and pushes a false, claimed Arabic origin with a source that has no correlation with his claim. 
So would you please provide sources that verify "Chalgi" as an originally Arabic word? If not, I will revert your version, please note that a further reverting my be regarded as Edit-Warring. Akocsg (talk) 01:21, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I added two more citations. Read and Enjoy them. Cheers ;) Olsonspterom (talk) 02:16, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, those citations don't have any correlation to the word Chalgi itself, they are just two more sources that cite the very same info (an Iraqi style that borrowed its name from Turkish). You clearly cannot prove the claimed Arab origin of the word, it's no wonder since it is Turkish, and not Arabic. So please stop adding this irrelevant, misleading piece of information into the text. Akocsg (talk) 17:42, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology of the name Chalga 

message: A tag has been placed on :Category:Chalga compilation albums requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. 
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.   --David Tornheim (talk) 15:57, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Category:Chalga compilation albums]]

message: I've removed all of the entries in the "External links" section as they're all long dead or archived, and even if they were live and up to date they wouldn't be much relevant either. I'm pasting the list here just for the record:
– Uanfala (talk) 10:56, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed external links