Talk:Higher Power/Archive 1

message: there realy isnt a leangthy definition of it. It is quite simple. Members of alcoholics anonymous use this definition for their new members and is a way for people who have no belief in any god to get the most out of the 12 steps.
The term "Higher Power" has much more general connotations that use in AA. I think the definition for it in relation to AA should be a subsection of a main article. Trick 17:23, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  June 2006 

message: Did some copyediting. Article seems to suck much less now. -- Craigtalbert 04:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyediting 

message: Does AA suggest using a sponsor as higher power? Can't find a ref for it. I'm surprised at that if true so I'll change it, change it back if I'm wrong. Thanks. Mr Miles 19:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sponsor? 

message: I note that "higher power" is usually capitalized in this article (except for the quote from W.).  Why is that?  There is no God-like singular Higher Power, but many many higher powers.  Maybe there is some convention that I am not aware of.  Thanks.Desoto10 (talk) 01:05, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In 12 Step circles the convention is generally capitalization (see Big Book quotes). For many 12 Steppers, HP is interchangeable with God... and yet allows those who aren't believers in a single God figure to be included without having to ascribe to such a God. It's a piece of multivalent jargon and its very ambiguity has ensured its usefulness and increasing popularity. Only wish I had a source to quote for it ;-) For now, that ambiguity is simply reflected in the varying perspectives on the page. --Dakinijones (talk) 13:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Higher Power or "higher power" 

message: The elaboration on God in the introduction--"God Almighty, the God and power of the universe, the God of Heaven, watching over our earthly domain with awaited availability, and strength availed to any who request it."--is definitely not appropriate to an encyclopedia article. If it's a quote from recovery literature it should be indicated as such. PurpleChez (talk) 20:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro 

message: I would like to assist in the cleanup of this page but am not entirely sure where to begin (which perhaps means I shouldn't be adding to it or changing it!). The references to AA literature seem quite legitimate and correct - perhaps more could be added under a "Use/ Higher Power in Practice" sort of heading, examining the use and purpose of a Higher Power in 12 step programs?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaelraitha (talk • contribs) 21:44, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd start with the odd capitalization: by converting every instance of "Higher Power" (other than in quotations) to "higher power" and continue by moving the article to "Higher power". -- Hoary (talk) 06:29, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's not odd capitalization, it's how it appears in nearly all the references that discuss the concept. -- Scarpy (talk) 19:22, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Then they're odd too. If I'm a believer, then "God" (so capitalized); but in discussion of the status or role of this or that among the competing gods, "a god". The "River Thames", but "a river"; "the Trinity" (if the context makes this a proper noun), but "a trinity" of something or other. Plus MoS seems to advocate lowercase. ¶ But in view of the existence of "Higher Power (seaQuest DSV)" etc, this should instead be "Higher power (theology)" or similar. -- Hoary (talk) 00:41, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  That is true in most cases, but there are exceptions. See relevant discussion on a similar topic here: Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 August 17#Change capitalization of article. Scarpy (talk) 04:15, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't see the parallel. There, you have a fixed number of something, as defined in some book or tradition. Thus the "Ten Commandments" aren't just any old list of commandments; they're a particular list of a particular ten. By contrast, here it seems we have any old higher power. ¶ Capitalization aside, it seems not much more than a dicdef; while Higher Power (seaQuest DSV) is profoundly uninteresting to me, it's already longer and is actually about something. So it's not at all clear that "Higher power" (however capitalized) should go to the article on this odd term rather than to a disambiguation page. -- Hoary (talk) 04:49, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  You can put in a WP:3O if you'd like. -- Scarpy (talk) 00:06, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've done so. -- Hoary (talk) 00:28, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

text: I don't have access to any of the cited sources to which links are broken. I do have Wendy Kaminer's I'm Dysfunctional, You're Dysfunctional, which says e.g. "The religiosity of the recovery movement is evident in its rhetorical appeals to a higher power and in the evangelical fervor of its disciples" (p.3, my italics). -- Hoary (talk) 07:40, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But she's just an author, right? I guess I'm looking for what could be considered canon - the actual text used by AA. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 12:09, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But the actual text used by Sanyo and Sony is "SANYO" and "SONY" respectively, and we rightly ignore this. -- Hoary (talk) 13:14, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but this isn't a company; this is a term used by an organization. WP:LOWERCASE says "Use lower case, except for proper names". I was trying to figure out if AA uses "higher power" as a proper name, but that seems increasingly unlikely. To that end, I would say "Higher power" would be more appropriate here. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 13:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The "King James" bible talks (here) of "Prophets", "Psalmes" (sic) and "Scriptures" (all so capitalized), but see Prophets of Christianity (using "prophet"), Psalms (mostly using "Psalm" but some "psalm"), and Scripture (using "scripture"). Of course capitalization was used a lot more 400 years ago than it is now (and that bible was old fashioned even when new), but my impression is that religious and quasi-religious writing in English likes unneeded capitalization. However, WP should be a neutral encyclopedia, and should not dole out capitals according to others' idiosyncratic practices. -- Hoary (talk) 23:43, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Higher Power Cleanup 

message: The Church Of A Higher Power, otherwise known as COAHP.com was founded by the Rev. Robert Dean and believes that all religions have something to offer. It is a nondenominational church that does not ask anybody to give up their personal beliefs only. but rather,open their mind to the goodness in all religions and the believe that no higher power would want war, starvation, and the belief that we can all COAHP with what life deals us. Our effort combines the best of all religions in an effort to bring peace in our day. Volunteers are very welcome, and we ask all our constituents look at it for its positive benefits, rather then dispute the pros and cons of any one religion. Donations can be made to COAHP.com, 4434 Paris Pike, Lexington, Ky. 40511. For information, call Rev. Robert Dean at 859-425-0000.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.191.25.67 (talk) 19:56, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  COAHP - The Church of a Higher Power 

message: The church of a higher power (COAHP.com) was founded by the Rev. Robert Dean Griimm, jr.,  in 2001. The goal of the church is to encourage people to look outside of thier religious upbringing and educate them on the pros and cons of different religions so that we can all live as citizens of the world. Membership is open to all, and it is our goal to get many people involved and help us bring about peace, through change, for the sake of the future. Everyone is asked to participate in the formation of a church that allows everybody to think openly and find the best in each religion, in an effort to bring about world unity. Contributions, your personal expertise and guidance, by teaching others to follow the path and help us lead the way, is needed. Do something that will bring about even the slightest change in a noble effort to bring about peace and spirituality throughout the universe in our day.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.141.17.112 (talk) 14:29, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  COAHP - The Chirch Of A Higher Power 

message: Why is the "citation needed" tag necessary? It's well-known that the same model is used in all substance dependence counselling 12-step programs, and this is seen in their respective articles.
Bomb319 (talk) 02:02, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding the Higher Power concept in other twelve-step programs

message: Looking at results from Google's ngram search, the term appears to have been used in a sense similar to AA's since as early as 1632. A lot of work needs to be done on this article. :/ - Scarpy (talk) 21:50, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Term was coined well before AA and William James 

message: As noted by earlier comment....takes all of 2 minutes to verify. 
75.166.203.122 (talk) 06:03, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed because the claim to"higher power" as "coined" by AA is ridiculous  

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thread_title:  External links modified