Talk:Eli Lilly (industrialist, born 1885)

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved to Eli Lilly (industrialist, born 1885). Clear consensus to move although no consensus on the new title. I chose the option that I think better meets WP:NCPDAB. Per WP:OTHEROPTIONS any editor can create a new move request at any time. Regarding the primary topic issue or possible move of Eli Lilly, a new request that includes that page will be needed to get as much participation as possible. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 21:10, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Eli Lilly (industrialist) →  – The current disambiguation of "(industrialist)" is not adequate to separate this Eli Lilly from his grandfather Eli Lilly, who also was in the pharmaceutical industry and founded Eli Lilly and Company. Plenty of sources () call Eli Lilly (born 1885) "Eli Lilly Jr." to distinguish him from his grandfather, so it serves as a strong WP:NATURAL disambiguation. Cerebral726 (talk) 20:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: If we are going to disambiguate further, we would want to just drop "industrialist", since it could be more succinctly described as Eli Lilly (born 1885) and Eli Lilly (born 1838), per WP:TITLEDAB. However, I still think "Jr." makes a lot more sense since WP:NATURAL states it is fine to use a less common but still used alternative name for the subject, and there is strong reasons not to use birth year as a disambiguator per WP:NCPDAB which states "Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators, as readers are more likely to be seeking this information than to already know it." Using the Jr. is a more natural solution that reduces the clunky parentheticals. --Cerebral726 (talk) 13:42, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Although WP:TITLEDAB does advise the use of succinct parenthetical qualifiers, dropping "industrialist" would indeed run contrary to WP:NCPDAB, thus "industrialist" or a similar term, such as "manufacturer", is certainly needed in addition to the birth year. A glance at any dab page which has name entries that require this type of disambiguation will confirm the point. In the case at hand, leaving the 19th-century grandfather Eli Lilly as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of Eli Lilly (disambiguation) and indicating the lesser-used form "Eli Lilly Jr." for his better-known grandson, does not seem to be the most intuitive resolution. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:05, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You're totally write about WP:NCPDAB, my mistake. I disagree about the "Jr". not being a better solution than a (in my opinion) long parenthetical, but I appreciate the kind response to me being wrong about the policy regarding the use of industrialist. --Cerebral726 (talk) 15:09, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I also appreciate your kind reply and, since requested moves are consensus-based, other editors may ultimately decide that your nomination represents the better proposal. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:20, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 20 July 2022