Talk:Crete

message: [http://www.wikinfo.org/wiki.php?title=Cretan/Spartan_connection Wikinfo:Cretan/Spartan
DMT AO US 36530 John fort (talk) 00:18, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Spartan connection

message: On the main page, someone erroneously states that Mount Ida (a.k.a. Idha, Ídhi, Idi and now Psiloritis) is the highest mountain in Greece.
Untrue. Mount Olympus is much taller (9570 feet/2919 meters, vs. 8057 feet/2456 meters for Mount Ida).
: The current text appears a bit inconsistent to me: it states "Crete is extremely mountainous, and its character is defined by a high mountain range crossing from west to east, formed by three different groups of mountains. These are:" and then gives a list of five mountains! Some authors elsewhere give a list of four mountain groups (Lefka Ori, Ida, Dikti and Sitia mountains) but of course there are also other possibilities (and other mountains, e.g. the Asteroussia mountains south of Messara Plains).--Sivullinen (talk) 09:17, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Mountains of Crete

message: Ummm...under famous Cretans, the first "person" listed was (before I changed it): Zeus.  Are we serious?  Yeah, I know, according to the myth he was born in Crete, or was raised there.  But let's be serious folks.  Zeus is not a "person".  He's a literary and mythological figure to most people and, to others -the very few people who have revived the old pagan religion- a god, not a person (not even both human and god like Jesus Christ.  Just a god).  I deleted him from the list. Skyduster (talk) 07:05, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous Cretans 

message: I suppose that the word "Cre-te" is derived from word "Grae-ces" or "Graiae". Perhaps, Graices are Curetes (peoples of Acarnania and Crete) were the same tribe. Note: the suffices "-tes" and "-ces" or "-cae" were usual in ancient Greece. --IonnKorr 19:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not understand why the supposed nymph called Crete who supposedly gave her name to the Island is not metioned anywhere in this article. She is refered to elsewhere (eg http://www.forumancientcoins.com/cparada/GML/Crete.html and http://wiki.heraklion-crete.org/index.php?title=Main_Page, as well as the Wikipedia-blocked pantheon.org). Whilst obviously this is not "real" historical etymology, it should be mentioned (discussed) if the wide ranging nature of an encyclopedia is to stand. Incidentally, does anyone know why the nymph isn't mentioned anywhere in Wikipedia - not even the disambiguation page? The Lesser Merlin (talk) 13:45, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology of Crete 

message: The external links of this article seem to be an eternal problem, as tourism link are countinuosly k. It may be a good idea to take a decision once and for all about whether we accept these kinds of links or not. In particular, if we decide they are not needed, they all should go, as one link encourages new ones. I know there are a number of people having this article in their watchlist, and I would like their opinions. - Liberatore(T) 12:31, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: I added the demonym "Cretan" to the infobox, but it was reverted because demonym "isn't a field." Yet it's a field in other infoboxes. Why not here? I know the term "Cretan" appears elsewhere in the article, but I'm trained to check the infobox for demonyms whenever I wonder, "What are people from that place called?" 68.165.76.80 (talk) 00:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We are Kritikoi, I suppose we are Cretans in your language, but you obviously find the word silly. It's really not something related too much to actual Cretans since it's not our language. --Apotetios (talk) 13:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cretan demonym 

message: This article is in desperate need of cleansing of its highly nationalistic tone.  The arguments about Turk vs Muslim vs Ottoman is repulsive.  As far as names, go check Istanbul article, it deals with it nicely.  In fact, there is a whole article just about that. What did Ottomans do and build for all those centuries there?  No mention.  What about the other groups, Jews for example.  Their fate desreves a mention I think.--Murat (talk) 00:36, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What region, city, or town doesn't have, or hasn't ever had ethnic minorities?  The question is, have these minorities been significant enough in the region's history to be mentioned in the article?  The Jewish communities of Ioannina and Thessaloniki are well-documented in those cities' respective Wikipedia articles.  They were never a major community in Crete.  As for the article's treatment of Muslims and Turks, I don't see what's "repulsive" about it, at least not at the time of writing this (2012).  What exactly do you find repulsive?  And what "Ottoman contributions" are being neglected?  Just having been ruled by the Ottoman Empire, doesn't necessarily mean that Crete ever had a significant Turkish population or that it was significantly influenced by the Ottomans.  If you disagree, then tell us right here, what specific passages are wrong in the article?  What should be added?  Can you provide sources?  It would be nice if you could contribute, if you actually had something to contribute or even had a suggestion, rather than order others to do the research and look for some sort of "suppressed Ottoman influence" that may not exist (aside from a couple mosques left behind).  If you're so sure of it, then contribute, instead of giving orders. Skyduster (talk) 07:23, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ottoman Heritage 

message: We had a recent discussion for adding genetic findings in articles about small regions at Talk:Epirus (region). The article should not be an index of specialized topics about Crete. I really can't see how a reader searching for this article would expect to see or would be interested in this section (or even be able to understand it for that matter). For anyone interested in genetics we have Genetic history of Europe, and we could even have a Genetics of Greece or Greeks or Genetics of the Mediterranean if we had enough material. Crete is not specifically notable from this scientific research as far as i know. I'm repeating what i've said in my edit summaries, since genetics is not an established topic in this kind of articles, inside wikipedia or in other encyclopedias, the question should not be what we can find on genetics about Crete (using genetic research sources) but if some genetic results about Crete are being noted in sources of a more general interest. Say for intance we have the topic "Cancer research", Crete has a renowed med school which does research on cancer, we can find specialized sources proving that but neither the local university nor Crete are known for the cancer research that is conducted there, that would be a job for, say, a newspaper article, an encyclopedia or a publication not focused on cancer to show. Knowing very little about genetics, i'm not even getting into the issue of a possible POV fork here. --Δρακόλακκος (talk) 08:56, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean Talk:Epirus (region) - I had to look at your contributions to find this. With the development of genetics I'm sure we will see more information in articles about areas such as Crete (which as an island I'm not sure is quite the same as a small region), but I take what Future Perfect said seriously. I don't think that 'other articles don't have this' is a good reason (it's like 'othercrapexists'). However, and I just found this after I wrote the last sentence, we have another problem. How can we ignore it in this article when it is a major part of Archaeogenetics of the Near East? We need somehow to link the two articles together - I don't see how we can avoid a mention of genetics in this article. Dougweller (talk) 11:12, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but the article you found doesn't make any difference to me, just the same formalistic wording mixed with some archaeological theories, searching for some clues in genetics, in lack of another direction to look for. "Not being established" was more of an easy way to show that its relevance is debatable in general, if it was common practice then i suppose i'd have to accept that some of my concerns were already addressed, but i understand why it could seem like an WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS argument. To my undestanding the problem is that genetic research on population origins cannot be usually expressed in a sequence of definite interpretations that the average reader could understand, if you have no idea about the process and the theoretical preassumptions you can't evaluate the results, at least not in a useful manner. I mean realy, what can a reader with no background knowledge make out of the current paragraph ? A loose connection with the lands across the sea in every direction ? I can't say i find it interesting but i might be wrong about the number of people that do. If this kind of research is getting into mainstream that much we should be able to find something about Crete in a non-specialist source, which would also help pull out a more accessible wording and/or theme. I've taken a look at Talk:Archaeogenetics of the Near East and understood that Crete is mostly mentioned to address the question of the Philistines' origins, it's not obvious to me why that fact, which led to so much material being added there. should bare any weight in this article. To be honest i don't want to spend much time debating this, if you think that enough people would benefit reading it then lets keep it. I can't help you with adding further material unless we find a source i can fully understand. --Δρακόλακκος (talk) 22:47, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

text: I must apologise as for some reason I seem to have been reading Phoenicians for Philistines, probably because I had already found this  BBC story linking Phoenicians to Crete. I am not at all convinced at the moment that that the paragraph about Philistines in the section in the Archaeogenetics origins isn't OR. I'll check it again and probably delete it, as the article is, after all, about genetics. I appreciate very much your discussion here, as at first I wasn't sure if this was just another one of those pov edits I frequently find concerning nationalities. I'm happy with whatever you do about this right now. Dougweller (talk) 07:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've deleted that entire section - you may disagree, but I didn't think Crete was 'Near East'. Dougweller (talk) 07:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population Genetics 

message: This was not only written in the first person, which we deprecate, and was unverifiable as there were no page numbers, it was purely promotional. It is from , " a non-profit organization founded by the four Prefectures of Crete to rescue, promote and disseminate the model of the Cretan diet and the certification of catering offering Cretan cuisine". I'm dubious about the parent article Cretan diet. It also breaks the licence of the web page from which it was copied. Even if that were fixed, it's inappropriate. Dougweller (talk) 20:42, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you thing that an AfD might be in order? Constantine   ✍  07:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, go for it and see what happens. It's pretty bad. I suspect a sock puppet here also. Dougweller (talk) 09:51, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm, perhaps reducing it to a stub with the main features of the diet, without any of the promotional commentary on the benefits, would be better. I'll go ahead and give it a try... Constantine   ✍  12:11, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, I'll keep it on my watch list. Dougweller (talk) 12:28, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cretan diet]] 

message: I've removed the image of Nicholas Kalliakis.  Though this person may be notable enough to have an entry in Wikipedia, surely he is not notable enough to justify more than a brief mention on page for Crete -- especially since though he was born there he spent most of his life elsewhere.  Images take up a lot of screen real estate, and should only be included when there is clear justification for them.  Strawberryjampot (talk) 02:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nicholas Kalliakis 

message: I've replaced the image of Komos beach with one of the Lassithi Plateau.  Sure, the beach image was a nice photo, but it seemed to me it could be anywhere in Greece.  The Lassithi Plateau image seems much more characteristically Cretan. Also, the Lassithi image corresponds to the mention of Lassithi in the adjoining text, and it is more appropriate than a beach to the Geography section.  Strawberryjampot (talk) 02:22, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image:  Lassithi Plateau 

message: I've deleted one of the antique map images -- there's nothing wrong with having an antique Cretan map image on the page, but I don't think we need two of them -- and substituted an image of the famous Snake Goddess.  Some might argue this image would be more appropriate in an article on ancient religion, but surely this image is the most famous single image associated with Crete in the general public worldwide consciousness, so it seems to me we can't not have it on the Crete page.  Also, it fits in with the mention of Minoan Crete in the adjoining text.  Strawberryjampot (talk) 02:37, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snake Goddess image 

message: Böri (talk) 10:44, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mention of Dorian Crete! 

message: = Arabic name of Crete Böri (talk) 11:11, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ikrîtış 

message: Out of curiosity by what definition are we using "civilization" and "Europe" in the lead.  I raise this question because we see extensive agriculture and community (civilization) in say Ireland long before 2700 bc and the use of metal during the same Bronze Age as we are giving to Crete.  Pudge MclameO (talk) 01:36, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition 

message: This section has either been vandalised or half edited or badly translated.  Someone who knows the subject should look at it please. kritikos99 (talk) 15:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on "Cretan State" needs a rewrite, IMHO 

message: I made a comparison to other Wiki pages related to regions of Greece. In each of them, I can see a respective flag in the blue box on the right side of the tube. Unfortunately, in Crete's page, there is none. Please, add! Thank you for reading. :-)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.25.38.151 (talk) 13:44, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  A flag is missed 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: here. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Diannaa (talk) 22:45, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: It is claimed that the first human settlement is from 130,000 years ago but the sources cited claim human or possibly prehuman/hominids. 94.65.149.245 (talk) 05:33, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Were Neanderthal remains ever found in Crete?  I've never heard they were, but, that means nothing. 130,000 years ago Cro-Magnon (modern) man had emerged, and dominated with the exception of the Neanderthals, who died out no later than 30,000 years ago.  So it is almost certain that the first Cretan settlers were modern humans. 104.169.22.74 (talk) 02:05, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  History, prehistoric 

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thread_title:  External links modified I 

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thread_title:  External links modified II 

message: It seems to be that everything after "...earliest recorded civilization in Europe" doesn't belong in the introduction. Perhaps the information "There are many villages up in the mountains of Crete, one of which is a beautiful little village called Pinochiano, otherwise known as Lasithi Plateau" could be moved to another section, such as tourism? Or perhaps it could be reworded to something like "Crete is notable as a tourist destination because of its mountain villages, including the Lasithi plateau"?
19:45, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should introductory section contain random digression about villages, including "a beautiful little village called Pinochiano"? 

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thread_title:  External links modified III 

message: Could the History section be moved to the beginning of the article? For the sake of consistency. As far as I can tell, this is the preferred format (see: Sardinia, Cyprus).--Adûnâi (talk) 14:34, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move the History section to the beginning of the article 

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thread_title:  External links modified IV 

message: I read the article, I made some changes to the text. Then I made a major effort trying to improve the layout by reorganizing, shuffling, resizing and removing images. I also noticed a few issues that I list below.
1. "Crete is mountainous, and its character is defined by a high mountain range crossing from west to east, formed by three different groups of mountains."
The list that follows has 5 instead of 3 groups of mountains which is inconsistent.
2. What the heck is "Human geography"? I changed it to "Geography" which makes more sense and sounds better. There is nothing human about geography.
3. The Diktaean Cave is not the only birthplace of Zeus. Crete has at least another place in the west of the island called Idaean Cave on Mount Ida (I visited both and I like Greek mythology so I'm not making it up).
4. The image [] is not truly at the Heraklion Archeological Museum. I have been on site and it looks quite different. Also, it should be labeled "Bull-leaping" and not just "Minoan fresco".
5. The article talks about Giacomo Foscarini and Marco Foscarini. Was there a connection between the two?
6. "on the eve of the Greek War of Independence, as much as 45% of the population of the island may have been Muslim."
What´s the year? Most readers certainly do not know. It should be added.
7. "Tahmiscizade Mehmed Macid: Memorialst".
What the heck does "Memorialst" mean? Explain.
8. "*Likewise, as stated above, Mustafa Naili Pasha was Albanian/Egyptian."
This note is unrelated, unnecessary and useless. It should be removed.
ICE77 (talk) 06:24, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corrections, questions and comments 

message: I took the liberty of doing a re-write and adding references, hope no one minds.Mickmct (talk) 08:16, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cretan State

message: For all of you who argue about various names of Crete, go to the book of William Martin Leake (1814) Researches in Greece page 64-65 where William Martin Leake apologise for english speaking people, for calling Crete anything else than Crete, as he personally observed in the early 19th century, the people of Crete only refered to the islan with its anciant name, Κρήτη, therafore all other names mentioned in this article will be removed.W5ry3 (talk) 21:36, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Various names of Crete

message: Based on the latest edit, I wanted to check on what the sources were for Crete's land area. I narrowed my search parameters to Greek government sources, but I ended up with conflicting information. 
My first result was the Enterprise Greek brochure attempting to attract investment on Crete, which states 8335 square kilometers. This is one off from the originally stated land area in the article of 8336 square kilometers. A second source from Greece's GeoData website, lists 8312.9 square kilometers (the file is in Greek). The Greek wiki article has a different value of 8303 kilometers squared in the infobox and 8336 in the article text. 
I would like to use the 8312.9 value from the GeoData set since it comes from the Greek (Hellenic Statistical Authority), but since this change looks like it might have to apply to numerous foreign language wikis I want to be sure. Inomyabcs (talk) 21:17, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have the answer, but editors need to bear in mind that the Crete region is not identical to the island itself.  As the article says, there are "a number of islands and islets that surround it", such as Gavdos and Spinalonga - which are within the region and which clearly influence the measurement of the area.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:48, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crete's Land Area