Talk:Pelé/Archive - Statistics

message: It´s funny how Wikipedia is one of the few places where Pelé's goal scoring is less than 1000. It´s obviously original research. You had commited the gravest sin in wikipedia: you made a research, took what you think was right and wrote it down on wikipedia. You could have done it on your blog or homepage, but not here. The correct way to introduce the truth you unveilled was to have a section on the "goal-scoring controversy". The goal-score on the info-box should reflect the well accepted score of over 1000 goals. Event if it´s not truth or if it´s simply a score counted loosely it´s the most accepted one. I will call the attention of a few administrators. Regards Loudenvier 12:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: * Rivelino.calltech.edu also states this: But mentioning some numbers is inevitable. How do you classify an athlete that is 11 times top goal scorer of the São Paulo Championship, 8 of these being consecutive seasons? A "golden boot" winner is extatic to hit the 500-goal mark - Pelé hit it when he was just 22.. So this is controversial stuff, how come a research made by wikipedia editors (which shouldn´t be making research in the first place) is the final answer to this? Loudenvier 12:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: * Official sources states that Pelé scored over 1000 goals, including FIFA. It's enough reason to revert the current edits. Loudenvier 12:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are playing with word. FIFA sais he scored more than 1000. We are trying to give a number on official goals, is that so bad? Mariano(t/c) 15:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: * No original research:  Articles may not contain any previously unpublished arguments, concepts, data, ideas, statements, or theories. Moreover, articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published arguments, concepts, data, ideas, or statements that serves to advance a position.  Loudenvier 13:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: Why is it "clearly" (again, a somewhat dogmatic term) POV? Word by word: "it is often quoted". Seems fine, Pele's 1000+ goalscoring record is often quoted. "Somewhat misleadingly": it is "somewhat misleading" because, under the norm in which people read encyclopedia articles, they expect that 1000 goals refers to 1000 goals in games of a certain calibre. It is not "misleading", as Pele did indeed score 1000+ goals, which is why I haven't said that - I qualified it with the word "somewhat". This introduces a sufficient degree of caution into the statement.
This supposedly POV statement does not in my opinion "enforce" any point of view. As I have argued, it allows for some doubt by the introduction of the qualifying term "somewhat". Surely stating that "Pele scored 1280 goals in his career" enforces a POV, the POV being that goals he scored in certain matches should be counted. They should certainly be mentioned in the article, which is why I included the total in the introduction.
When you refer to the fact that FIFA, Santos and "almost all specialized press" peddle, you are again returning to your dogmatic position. I have covered this above, but I would like to repeat that it is in the interests of FIFA and Santos to say that Pele scored over 1000 goals, as it makes him out to be some sort of God, which he wasn't. He was only an incredibly gifted footballer who was perhaps the greatest player who has ever lived.
I'm not going to revert any of your edits; I'll leave it a couple of days and see what comes up. I look forward to your response. Jim (Talk) 14:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Response