Talk:Lithuanian Chess Championship

message: Using the  chessdb software with the downloadable database (all free), it is possible to find more results (using the tournament finder). The same goes for the other national championships. Up until now, I only included the names if  I found also another reference for it. My question: 
* Is this ok to include those without any other reference? PGN databases can be very unreliable.  
* And how would you reference it? Here as an example, the crosstable for the 1995 edition
 LTU-ch
 Vilnius, 1995
 Average Rating: 2272
                              Rtng    Age Nat    Score       1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    Perf Chg
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1: Zapolskis, Antanas       2360  im 33 LTU   7.0 /  9   31b= 26w+ 28b= 19w+  8b+  3w+  5w+  2b- 14w+   2527 +18
  2: Piesina, Gintautas       2400  im 43 LTU   6.5 /  9    9w+  6b+  7w+  3w= 27b+  5b- 14w+  1w+  4b-   2514 +13
  3: Sulskis, Sarunas         2470  gm 23 LTU   6.5 /  9   36w+ 30b+ 12w+  2b=  5w=  1b- 15w+  7b+  6w=   2512  +5
  4: Kaunas, Kestutis         2415  im 53 LTU   6.5 /  9   10w- 34b+  8w- 39b+ 36w+ 26b+ 23w= 13b+  2w+   2404  -2
  5: Ruzele, Darius           2500  gm 27 LTU   6.0 /  9   19b+ 27w= 16b+ 20w+  3b=  2w+  1b-  6b=  8w=   2457  -5
  6: Sakalauskas, Vaidas      2320  im 24 LTU   6.0 /  9   38b+  2w- 25b+ 16w+ 15w+ 13b=  7b=  5w=  3b=   2465 +16
  7: Bilinskas, Raimundas     2245     34 LTU   6.0 /  9   40b+ 14w+  2b- 11w= 28b+ 22b+  6w=  3w- 17b+   2422 +20
  8: Slapikas, Vytautas       2275  im 22 LTU   6.0 /  9   37b= 44w+  4b+ 27w=  1w- 12b+ 13w= 15b+  5b=   2500 +22
  9: Skrebnevskis, Romanas    2160     20 LTU   6.0 /  9    2b- 29w+ 17b= 32b+ 22w- 28w= 31b+ 16w+ 18b+   2365 +22
 10: Mikenas, Alius           2200     40 LTU   5.5 /  9    4b+ 16w- 14b= 17w+ 11b- 18w- 37b+ 27w+ 22b+   2359 +18
 11: Linauskas, Dainius       2320     32 LTU   5.5 /  9   35w+ 13b= 15w=  7b= 10w+ 14w- 18b- 36b+ 21w+   2334  +2
 12: Dambrauskas, Virginijus  2340  im 33 LTU   5.5 /  9   45b+ 17w+  3b- 22w= 26b-  8w- 41b+ 29w+ 23b+   2273  -7
 13: Butnorius, Algimantas    2440  im 49 LTU   5.0 /  9   22b+ 11w= 18b= 28w= 20b+  6w=  8b=  4w- 19b=   2333 -14
 14: Lapienis, Donatas        2345  fm 59 LTU   5.0 /  9   39w+  7b- 10w= 36b+ 24w+ 11b+  2b- 18w=  1b-   2310  -5
 15: Grabliauskas, Virginijus 2410  im    LTU   5.0 /  9   26b= 31w+ 11b= 18w+  6b- 27w+  3b-  8w- 29b+   2283 -14
 16: Slekys, Emilis           2340     44 LTU   5.0 /  9   41w+ 10b+  5w-  6b- 30w= 19b+ 32w=  9b- 28w+   2299  -5
 17: Rocius, Marijonas        2275     32 LTU   5.0 /  9   21w+ 12b-  9w= 10b- 42w= 35b+ 20w+ 32b+  7w-   2232  -4
 18: Zukauskas, Kestutis      2290        LTU   5.0 /  9   43w= 42b+ 13w= 15b- 19w= 10b+ 11w+ 14b=  9w-   2302  +1
 19: Novikov, Vitalij         2245        LTU   5.0 /  9    5w- 35b+ 43w+  1b- 18b= 16w- 38b+ 25b+ 13w=   2222  -2
 20: Survila, Rimvydas        2255     40 LTU   5.0 /  9   33w+ 23b= 24w+  5b- 13w- 30b= 17b- 40w+ 32w+   2326  +8
 21: Lasinskas, Povilas       2175     25 LTU   5.0 /  9   17b- 22w- 46b+ 29w- 34b+ 42b+ 30w+ 26w+ 11b-   2188  +1
 22: Kryzius, Kestutis        2225     16 LTU   4.5 /  9   13w- 21b+ 30w+ 12b=  9b+  7w- 26w= 23b= 10w-   2263  +5
 23: Macionis, Andrius        2330     19 LTU   4.5 /  9   46b+ 20w= 27b- 26w- 29b+ 31w+  4b= 22w= 12w-   2159 -17
 24: Rumiancev, Boris         2285  fm 59 LTU   4.5 /  9   44b= 37w+ 20b- 31w+ 14b- 25w= 29b- 35w= 26b+   2217  -4
 25: Varnas, Vygantas                  25 LTU   4.0 /  8   32w= 43b=  6w- .... 39w+ 24b= 28b= 19w- 36w+   2239
 26: Sarakauskas, Gediminas   2160  im 18 LTU   4.0 /  9   15w=  1b- 33w+ 23b+ 12w+  4w- 22b= 21b- 24w-   2262 +13
 27: Pavlovicius, Vladimir    2325        LTU   4.0 /  9   34w+  5b= 23w+  8b=  2w- 15b- 36w= 10b- 33w=   2231 -10
 28: Martinkus, Rolandas      2265        LTU   4.0 /  9   42w= 32b+  1w= 13b=  7w-  9b= 25w= 30b= 16b-   2252  -1
 29: Grigoriev, A                               4.0 /  9   30w-  9b- 34w+ 21b+ 23w- 33b+ 24w+ 12b- 15w-   2191
 30: Labuckas, Aidas          2320  im 27 LTU   4.0 /  9   29b+  3w- 22b- 37w+ 16b= 20w= 21b- 28w= 35b=   2095 -18
 31: Samulevicius, Tomas      2110     15 LTU   4.0 /  9    1w= 15b- 42w+ 24b- 43w+ 23b-  9w- 37w= 40b+   1943  -7
 32: Slivinskas, Mindaugas    2255        LTU   4.0 /  9   25b= 28w- 44b+  9w- 37b+ 38w+ 16b= 17w- 20b-   2048 -16
 33: Zebelys, Rimantas        2205     42 LTU   4.0 /  9   20b- 45w+ 26b- 40w- 44b+ 29w- 34b+ 38w= 27b=   2119  -6
 34: Godlauskas, Kazys                 17 LTU   4.0 /  9   27b-  4w- 29b- 46w+ 21w- 39b+ 33w- 45b+ 41w+   2136
 35: Grigutavicius, Dainius            13 LTU   3.5 /  8   11b- 19w- 45b+ .... 40b= 17w- 42w+ 24b= 30w=   2125
 36: Gedgaudas, Raimundas     2225        LTU   3.5 /  9    3b- 46w+ 38b+ 14w-  4b- 40w+ 27b= 11w- 25b-   2145  -5
 37: Smirnovas, Jevgenijus             56 LTU   3.5 /  9    8w= 24b- 41w+ 30b- 32w- 45b+ 10w- 31b= 38w=   2109
 38: Jocys, Dalius            2155     35 LTU   3.5 /  9    6w- 39b+ 36w- 43b= 41w+ 32b- 19w- 33b= 37b=   2094  -6
 39: Kondroska, Vaidotas      2080        LTU   3.5 /  9   14b- 38w- 40b+  4w- 25b- 34w- 46w+ 41b= 45w+   2055  -2
 40: Zeromskis, Egidijus                        3.0 /  9    7w- 41b= 39w- 33b+ 35w= 36b- 43w+ 20b- 31w-   1936
 41: Sulskis, Giedrius        2045     19 LTU   3.0 /  9   16b- 40w= 37b- 44w+ 38b- 43b+ 12w- 39w= 34b-   1906  -5
 42: Surplys, Giedrius                 15 LTU   3.0 /  9   28b= 18w- 31b- 45w+ 17b= 21w- 35b- 44w- 46b+   2070
 43: Kincinas, Rolandas                   LTU   3.0 /  9   18b= 25w= 19b- 38w= 31b- 41w- 40b- 46w+ 44b=   1929
 44: Klimkevicius Laizanas, A                   3.0 /  9   24w=  8b- 32w- 41b- 33w- 46b+ 45w- 42b+ 43w=   1786
 45: Skarulskis, Robertas     2060     16 LTU   2.0 /  9   12w- 33b- 35w- 42b- 46b+ 37w- 44b+ 34w- 39b-   1209  -9
 46: Chmielevskis, R                            0.0 /  9   23w- 36b- 21w- 34b- 45w- 44w- 39b- 43b- 42w-   1175
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 206 games: +76 =54 -76
Voorlandt 20:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It might violate Wikipedia:Reliable sources, and maybe, to some extent, even Wikipedia:No original research. However, if enough precautions are taken, it might be a good idea to apply Wikipedia:Ignore all rules... The citation might be something like "Extracted from database 'Link to download'. More reliable source is needed.". If it is added for every single instance, maybe it would be OK. If (when) a bettes source is found, it would be replaced. Finally, you might wish to ask if someone in the relevant Wikiprojects has a better source. --Martynas Patasius 18:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure.  I think Shane accumulated a lot of his games scores from Crowther's TWIC, so at least some of the data can be reliable.  I think we can use chessdb as a reference, as databases can be OK as references.  The problem as you note is that I think chessdb synthesizes crosstables from its game scores, and it's hard to know if this is entirely reliable.  Also, we have trouble if there were tie breaks involved.  In favor of chessdb is that it is free and so it's available for inspection by anyone, so errors can be found and corrected.  Maybe you should ask for opinion at WT:CHESS, since (sometimes) there are more people participating there than on an article's talk page.  The great work you and Mibelz are doing on the national chess championships makes me want to see if we can work on :Category:Chess competitions to fill it out with some of the missing important tournaments.  Quale 02:31, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks a lot for your input. After having used it more often, I think that crosstables from pgn collections are too unreliable to use. There was another tournament from a national ch where there was a clear winner according to the crosstable. But online I could find several sources saying that somebody else won (according to the crosstable nr 2). I went over the games of the alleged winner and found that one game had a 1-0, where it should clearly have been a 0-1 (a mate in two). 1-0 or 0-1 they are so easily mixed up. Misinformation can hurt much more than no information, and I think wikipedia should play a responsible role (especially since we can expect people copying these tables). That said, tournament crosstables are very useful to find possible tournament winners, and to work from there (ie in my case google). Voorlandt 10:10, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tournament info

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Lithuanian Chess Championship. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927194448/http://www1.omnitel.net/margiris/istorija/istor_ch.html to http://www1.omnitel.net/margiris/istorija/istor_ch.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927194448/http://www1.omnitel.net/margiris/istorija/istor_ch.html to http://www1.omnitel.net/margiris/istorija/istor_ch.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:37, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Lithuanian Chess Championship. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070924190107/http://www.straipsniai.lt/sachmatai/puslapis/8959 to http://www.straipsniai.lt/sachmatai/puslapis/8959
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:56, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified