Talk:Minnesota/Archive 6

message: There is a conflict between the introduction and the FA summary in the last sentence of the first introductory paragraph, and the FA summary is inaccurate.
In the third week of November, during the FA push, the sentence read:
:Its image as a primarily white, Scandinavian, and Lutheran state still has some truth, but it is changing, with substantial influxes of African, Asian, and Hispanic immigrants joining the descendants of European immigrants and Native American descendants of the original inhabitants.
On November 28 that sentence was changed  to start as follows:
:While the state's residents have been primarily white, Northern European, and Lutheran, . . . 
Note the (unintended) change in meaning.  The sentence formerly addressed the image of Minnesotans (familiar to Minnesota residents and to anyone who listens to Garrison Keillor); it was changed to a factual statement that the state primarily consisted of Nordic Lutherans.
That made the sentence incorrect, as Lutherans are not a majority, nor even a plurality any more.  Recently the sentence was changed to start:
:While the state's residents have been primarily white and Northern European, . . . 
The FA summary however has the incorrect language, which was in the article in December:
: While the state's residents have been primarily white, Northern European, and Lutheran, . . . 
Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/requests#Minnesota  
Either the sentence in the article should be reverted to the version in place before 28 November (which I prefer), and the FA summary should be changed to conform to either that version or the current version of the intro.  As I believe I wrote the original version I’ll stay out of the decision. It's not a major point but should be corrected.  Kablammo 03:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflict between intro and FA summary 

message: How is it that, in 3 well-developed introductory paragraphs, wherein a great many assertions regarding the awesomeness of MN are proffered, there isn't even a single solitary reference provided?  Tomertalk 00:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As you may know, there has been a long-running discussion on the necessity of references in the introduction, with some adhering to the position that the intro or "lede" should contain references, and others stating they are not needed if the intro is a fair summary of an adequately-referenced main body.  It should be clear what side of that debate the contributors to this article take. And if you care to read a truly effusive article on the "awesomeness of MN", you can go to the archives of Time Magazine.  Regards, Kablammo 01:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Heh 1973. Tomer, have any resources saying otherwise? I am always open to NPOV. -Ravedave 02:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Devil's advocate says, "Oh, I dunno, this comes to mind..." :-D  Tomertalk 06:00, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW, when Norman Rockwell was painting N. Mpls, I think he missed the Minnesota Mile... :-p  Tomertalk 06:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Wow.  A google search indicates that the PDR MN has successfully purged all references to the sex slave industry in N. Mpls!  Congrats! :-D  Tomertalk 06:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Man the St. Croix bridges!  There may be a cheesehead on the loose.  Kablammo 15:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Batten down the hatches, I'm comin' to getcha! [ya sure, you betcha] Tomertalk 16:16, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA-related inquiry 

message: Raul654 has said that this article will be featured on May 11th, so lets try and make it FA+ by then as well as getting all the surrounding articles up to shape. -Ravedave 02:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We should refresh the citations and check them for consistent format prior to then.  Kablammo 14:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Have at it! I am trying to do another copy edit pass, while checking each and every wikilink. -Ravedave 00:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured on may 11th 

message: TODO:  -Ravedave 05:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By recent indices the state is 32nd  in overall crime rate, 35th in violent crime, and 38th in murder rate , but has the second-lowest incarceration rate , and no death penalty.  Now, to find a place for these data without making the article even larger . . . Kablammo 11:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I created a crime section back in the day, but I couldn't find any good overall stats except for the whole 'murderapolis' thing so I axed it, heres the diff showing the old section . Also has no refs... -Ravedave 04:10, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crime 

message: Does anyone know why the MN template doesn't look right here today?  It looks OK elsewhere e.g. Bloomington, Minnesota.--Appraiser 14:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Hello. A day or two ago User:Zyxw changed some templates including Template:US_state_navigation_box, I would guess because some cities and states who have a lot of templates in the footer had a cacophony(sp?) of wide and narrow, collapsed and not. In the presence of two or more collapsible tables (in Minnesota there are two, in Bloomington one) the 'state' parameter collapses the box. Do you like it collapsed or open? -Susanlesch 15:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Oh.  I didn't realize that it was collapsed.  It's fine.--Appraiser 18:48, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Template

message: The median income measurement for Minnesota residents is listed as $55,914 (5th) in the intro, but $52,024 (11th) in the Economy section.  Dunno which one is right.  --Marumari 16:33, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting.  Both the statistic in the infobox and the text in Economy are supported by the sources cited (and it is unlikely that the slight difference in years for those data would have that great an effect).  I'll let whoever contributed these parts sort this out, or make it consistent.  Nice catch.  Kablammo 16:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The 2005 (survey) median household income data and the 2005 census bureau per capita income data both rank Minnesota 11th.  Perhaps we could switch the measure to per capita, which may be a better measure of the state's economy.  Kablammo 23:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflict in Median Income 

message: In the article it's stated that the dew point is between 6 and 70 degrees.  However it doesn't say what that is.  Here is where I'm confused...   The reference states:  "Dew point temperatures in most areas range from a high of 70° F in July to a low of 6 in January."  I actually think that the reference provided is incorrect, and here's why.
By definition, a dew point can never be higher than the actual air temperature.  That means when it gets to -60 in Tower, the Dew Point must also be -60 or lower.  Even when it's -20 in the Twin Cities, the Dew point must also be -20 or lower.  So that definition throws out the possibility of the 6 to 70 dewpoints being extremes, and IMO proves the "generally ranges" statement provided by the ref incorrect.  That must mean that the 6 to 70 is an average dew point of some kind.  I would buy that 6 degrees is an average dew point in the winter, however, this is no way that the average dew point is 70 anywhere in Minnesota during the summer.  I found this graph that shows the record aveage high summer Dew Point in the Twin Cities is less than 64 degrees F.  , and the average dew point in the Twin Cities during the summer is only 58.  If there is a statement that makes the 70 degree dew point correct, I'd have to think it refers to a town in southern Minnesota over a short period of time, and it would be very close to a record.
So what I think needs to happen is:  
a) The Dew Point statement should be clarified to explain what the values mean
b) It should be changed, with better, more clarifying refs
c) It should just be removed all together.
However in order to clarify what it means it may end up taking more space than is needed for this article.
Thoughts?  Gopher backer 21:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *I think dew point is most meaningful on warm summer days.  My inclination is to use  and just say, "the average early evening summertime dew point in the Twin Cities is 58o"  No need to explain it - just WL to dew point --Appraiser 22:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Excellent idea, done. Gopher backer 01:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concern about the Dew Point 

message: I stumbled on the Minnesota Portal last night and realized at least the selected biographies section had not been updated since it was created in December.  So I added a fresh bio for Hubert Humphrey and created a suggestion page to update this monthly hopefully, and also an archive page to list all bios that have been featured.  I copied this procedure from the Music Portal but if you think the suggestion process is too clunky or cumbersome, please feel free to change it.  Also, feel free to suggest a new biography to be featured next month....and I will do my best to help keep it up to date. :)  Cricket02 16:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Portal:Minnesota]] - Suggest a biography

message: I am just a bystander here, but I am disappointed that Wikipedia won't stop unregistered users from changing FA articles that are aiming towards a deadline. What is the problem here? A vandal struck by section today, requiring reversion of each. An unecessary nuisance, IMO. Student7 02:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is helpful to compare a recent version with a stable version from before a spate of vandalism.  Oftentimes intermediate vandalism is overlooked because an editor or a bot only reverts the most recent instance, without correcting previous instances in the string.  Example:.  I have reverted this back to two days ago, but in the process lost a recent edit on the pronunciation.  As I am not sure what the consensus is on this fine point I will let those who have an interest in it restore their edits or discuss it further; my purpose in the reversion was only to restore wholesale deletions overlooked in the recent flurry of edits.  Kablammo 13:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: I have been in the process of recording this article for the |Spoken wiki project. However with recent comments with racial overtones over my pronunciation of the word Minnesota I'd like to gauge the Minnesota editors' thoughts or opinions that the moment I post a spoken version of this article it will not be mercilessly ripped apart for being too Chinky sounding when in reality I have grown up all my life in Minnesota. Davumaya 20:19, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article recording