Talk:Hungarian Revolution of 1848

message: This article could use another image. Here's one I would add, but I don't really know what it is. Can anyone help? - TheMightyQuill 02:13, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: I reverted the deletion of the intro paragraph and unreferenced tag because even though there are no references yet (anywhere in the article) the intro itself is a summary of the article whereas the main body requires references.  (there is nothing controversial or POV in the intro).  The tag is not inapropriate but the intro should remain. István 20:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, I didn't mean to delete the lead. Sancho McCann 20:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: unreferenced tag

message: I've noticed some other editors preferring to place that tag at the bottom of the page too. My reason for liking it at the top is that it doubles as both a request for references and sort of a caution to certain readers who might make the connection between an unreferenced article and an inaccurate article. However, this article just seems to be lacking references, not inaccurate, so the placement at the bottom is fine with me. Sancho McCann 01:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I really think it looks nicer there. Your concern is totally valid though. The whole History of Hungary series is poorly referenced, if at all. The main article has only 5 footnotes! - TheMightyQuill 02:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Placement of un-reffed tag 

message: Minor, but... first, why plural revolutions, and second, to standartize it with others, why not Hungarian revolution of 1848?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  05:08, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - no reason not to leave the Template title alone (since it does deal with many concurrent revolutions) and change the titles to each article to singular (unless it indeed deals with more than one revolution, e.g. "Habsburg") - it's at least a more correct, less ambiguous presentation. István 19:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: When the so-called Hungarian Revolution started, the lands of the Krown of Saint Stephen had a multiethnic population of Romanians, Serbs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Germans, Jews and Hungarians. The Hungarian - speaking population (including the Jewish, German, Serbian townspeople) was merely 29% and the Hungarian ethnic group was abb 25% of the total population. 
The aim of the rebelious group under the dictatorial command of Lajos Kossuth was to impose an APARTHEID STYLE society all over the St. Stephen Lands (the actual Hungarian Republic, Slovakia, parts of Romania, Ukraine, Austria, Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia).Only the Hungarian ethnic group would enjoy full freedon and full citizens rights. 
According to the rebels "Revolutionary Programme", accession to the status of full citizens would imply the rejection of the national identities of the native peoples (75% of the population in 1848) and inclusion into the "Hungarian Nation".
Therefore, it is excessive to call the 1848-1849 uprisings of Hungary a "Revolution". It was in fact a sort of military attempt to replace the Austrian imperial administration by an Hungarian ethnocratic system by force and extensive massacres among the native peoples during the period 1848-1849. 
Of course, the success chances of this kind of ethnocratic attempts are meagre or short-lasting. It's usefull to see the situation of South Africa, where the white minority (20% of the population in 1945 and 9% of the population in 2005) hardly mantained the Apartheid Regime, against the world-wide condemnations.
The so-called "hungarian revolution" was very far from European democratic way of thinking an is an example of anti-democratic movement, but successfully sold to the outside world as a "very democratic attempt". Maybe that style of twisting the events was the main success for the Hungarian Ethnocratic Oligarchy during the years after 1849. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.196.150.157 (talk) 08:34, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, no....the original motivation for the revolution independence (of some sort or another) from the Habsburg Empire! The Habsburgs had been taking much more control over Hungary than they were supposed to, not to mention enforcing a backward feudalist system that kept the country (except for the mostly Austrian nobility) impoverished and uneducated. The leaders of the revolution, Kossuth Lajos and Petőfi Sándor, were certainly nationalists but they were also progressive liberals and reformers, steeped in the ideals of the Enlightenment (you know, liberté, egalité, fraternité and all that). Misjudgements by Kossuth, agitation by outside powers and clever Machiavellian meddling by the Habsburgs all conspired to bring the ethnic element into what was originally a purely political, idealistic and liberal revolution firmly in keeping with the spirit of 1848. To call this revolution an "ethnocratic war" and say that its true goal was establishment of "apartheid" is simply ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but there's no other word for it. K. Lásztocska 00:57, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Petofi was a poet, not a criminal. And y'know, I've heard some not-so-nice things about Avram Iancu, so let's not pretend this is a black-and-white issue. Among other things, Kossuth emancipated the peasants, ended the nobility's immunity from taxation, emancipated the Jews, put an end to feudalism, and did his best to modernize the economy (although it could be argued that Szechenyi was more effective at that). Again, you have not convinced me, and as for your cheap shot about statues of "war criminals" in a member state of the European Union...sir, I like Romania and the Romanians so I'd prefer not to fight, but be advised that I could come up with a VERY large catalog of, shall we say, unfortunate things that happened and still happen in Romania, now a member state of the EU. Nobody's country is as pure as fresh snow, not mine, not yours. K. Lásztocska 13:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I could come up with a VERY large catalog of, shall we say, unfortunate things that happened and still happen in Romania - bring it on! Biruitorul 17:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't really want me to do that, do you? I knew we'd end up like this. K. Lásztocska 15:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid I'm not aware of the "unfortunate" things you're referring to, so if you'd kindly name a couple, that would be nice. Biruitorul 01:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Forget it. I'm just a Hungarian, so anything I say would be wrong anyway. I've heard some stuff about Hungarians getting beat up in the streets for speaking Hungarian, the occasional blatant Hungarian-baiting provocations by a prominent political figure, marginalization of the Székely and their desire for autonomy...but of course I must just be mistaken, nothing like that could ever happen in perfect golden Romania, the pinnacle of civilization! K. Lásztocska 01:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For the record, I've heard about Romanians being beat up in the Székely land, and of them leading rather marginalized lives there; Funar is no longer in office; the Hungarian political party has been in government for most of the post-Revolutionary period; and the Romanian Constitution defines Romania as a "unitary and indivisible" state, so the issue of autonomy is moot. So I think Romania has a pretty good record here. On the other hand, could the IP editor(s) please type in lowercase letters and tone down the rhetoric? It's silly, for instance, to speak of "racism" in this context. Biruitorul 07:55, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. Glad to hear I was misinformed, and things aren't as bad as I feared. :) Sorry for my instability yesterday--sleepless editing, like you said...K. Lásztocska 15:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I am not even going to bother with a political response to that. You just accused me of being anti-democratic, racist, and ethnocentric, not to mention "shameful by all standards of human behavior" because I'm "defending an ethnocratic gang." Regarding my comments about Avram Iancu, I appear to have mixed him up with someone else and I apologize for that. In light of that, I would now like an apology for your description of Sándor Petőfi, one of my favorite poets and one of my country's most beloved historical figures, as an "extremist" and a "ethnocentric racist." K. Lásztocska 15:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uummmm, I am neither hungarian nor even european, but reading petofi makes it clear that he was an extremist and racist... I know he is celebrated in hungary, but this does not change his (literally) extreme nationalist views on hungrian greatness.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.254.148.123 (talk) 11:55, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

text: Three words: Unio Trium Nationum. Biruitorul 17:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: sorry I don't understand, what is your point? K. Lásztocska 23:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I don't know, just trying to be witty. But persecution and de-nationalization of Romanians in Transylvania did continue until 1918 - is there any reason to believe the 1848 revolutionaries had different intentions? Biruitorul 02:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said, the original intent of the revolutionaries was political, not ethnic. The ethnic element made its unpleasant appearance well after the revolution began, and crimes were committed on all sides btw. Not everything in Hungarian history has a sinister ethnic-cleansing/apartheid motive, get that into your head. K. Lásztocska 02:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, that came out way grumpier than I intended. No offense meant. K. Lásztocska 03:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text:  "Not everything in Hungarian history has a sinister ethnic-cleansing/apartheid motive". What a priceless quote. I guess the minorities in that "great" hungarian kingdom have other views on this, something that it seems the hungarians are keen to forget... or never to learn? Ethnic oppression is so lovely to reminisce about, especially when you were the ones holding the power. It seems that many europeans have highly selective memories...  80.254.148.123 (talk) 12:05, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

text: I will decide what I do or don't get into my head, thank you very much, but for the record, I never claimed that "everything in Hungarian history has a sinister ethnic-cleansing/apartheid motive". However, given the previous, inauspicious 850-year record of Magyar-Romanian relations, "trust but verify" appears to have been a proper attitude for Romanians to take at the revolution's outset, followed in relatively short order by "don't trust - leave Hungary as fast as you can!" Biruitorul 03:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Inauspicious history indeed. I assume it's all my country's fault, as usual? You want me to apologize for that terrible day when Árpád led his band of pagan savages into the heart of Christian Europe and ruined everything for good? K. Lásztocska 03:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No and no. I didn't lay blame on either side; I merely stated an opinion. Biruitorul 04:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I do not see any contradiction here. Leaders of the revolution wanted to establish a liberal nation state. The project was supposed to be "liberal" as this word was understood in 1848, not in 2007. And nation-state building included ethnic cleansing at that time. I do not think it is fruitful to apply present-day normative standards to any historical event. It is much better just to describe facts and explain causes and consequences, without pushing any moral judgments. Tankred 03:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tankred, I generally agree, but I think "ethnic cleansing" is FAR too strong a term to use. Ethnic cleansing is what happened at Srebrenica and Auschwitz. Ethnic cleansing means annihilation and genocide. Kossuth and his comrades did not want to exterminate anyone. K. Lásztocska 03:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right, I agree that a more accurate description would be forced assimilation. By the way, ethnic cleansing does not need to involve mass killing. Unfortunately, journalists use the terms ethnic cleansing and genocide as interchangeable. Tankred 04:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, even if the original definition of ethnic cleansing didn't involve mass killing, it sure does now, post-Srebrenica and all. So the term has de facto come to mean "genocide" (don't know if that's the journalists' fault or what...) and we should be veeeeery careful in using terms like that--you and I have both seen what happens around here when someone uses a controversial or inflammatory description about anything in Central Europe! :) By the way, I'd like to publicly apologize here for my grumpy and trollish snide remarks to Biru in the above paragraph--there's no excuse for that sort of childish and asinine sniping, and it won't happen again. K. Lásztocska 05:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I too am sorry for any untoward aggressiveness. Biruitorul 05:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Please do not transpose the political status we have now, with the status there was in 1848. First: it was a fight for independence, this is better statement than "revolution". Second, it was not an ethocratic war as you write, as the ethnicity was mixed, even the army was mixed! Moreover, in very short and in general, the society at that time was "nobles" and "not nobles", and yes, the Romanians and other ethnicity were non-nobles, but hey, can you please check what was the situation in USA, England or France ? The difference between the French/English revolution and this revolution is that the Hungarian revolution raised the "non-nobles" to the noble level, meaning all people under the Doctrine of the Holy Crown had the noble status. The French revolution abolished the nobility creating "citizenship". Moreover, the Kingdom was retained, without the king, Kossuth being the governor. Before you call these people "gang" you should check wat they have been writing, doing and then you can judge them. I recommend not to read from the brainwasher Romanian schoolbooks, but from original sources. Then you can come and troll around. Hétszűnyű Kapanyányi Monyók (talk) 18:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not Revolution, but Ethnocratic War 

message: In July 1849, the Hungarian Revolutionary Parliament proclaimed and enacted the first laws on ethnic and minority rights in the world. (The next such laws were in Switzerland.) But these were overturned after the Russian and Austrian armies crushed the Hungarian Revolution. When Hungary made a compromise with the dynasty in 1867 one of the first acts of the restored Parliament was to pass a Law on Nationalities (Act Number XLIV of 1868). 
Again, ethnic minority rights didn't exist in other countries of the pre ww1 Europe, France Britain Italy and German legal systems didn't know the term of ethnic and minority rights before ww1. France was a multinational country sin similar degree as Hungary. (Only 50% of the French population spoke French as first/mother tongue in 1870 !!!) Minority newpapers theatres and schools were banned in France. The official language was French in offices, only foreign citizens had right to use translators. Great Britain was a multinational "united" kingdom with unquetionalbe English cultural and linguistic hegemony (Irish Scottish question). (only English schools theatres newspapers were tolerated in the British Isles), Russia was also multiethnic The russian hegemony was unquestionalble.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.46.188.166 (talk) 11:10, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compare the minority rights in Kingdom of Hungary with other European powers 

message: If we were to move this article, what would you name it? 
* Revolution of 1848 in Hungary
* Hungarian Revolution of 1848 (parallel to Hungarian Revolution of 1956)
* Hungarian Revolution and (Civil?) War of 1848
* Or would you move it at all?
Any other ideas? - TheMightyQuill 07:47, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard "Hungarian War for Independence", but I'm not sure how standard that is. K. Lásztocska 00:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move? 

message: Looking over the long list of others, similarly named "Revolutions of 1848 in XX" one may easily advocate changing to "XX-ish Revolution of 1848"  with one notable exception: France.  It doesn't seem right to use the title "French Revolution of 1848"; since "French Revolution" is already so iconic and much more significant.  One could simply make an exception for France (certainly without breaking precedent) allowing a redirect to stand as a special case, but does anyone else have a solution to propose? István 20:08, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I think the French Revolution of 1848 is quite appropriate. French wikipedia has fr:Révolution française for the iconic revolution and fr:Révolution française de 1848 for the one we're discussing. I'm no expert on revolutions of 1848, but from what's available on wikipedia, it's the other article titles prove more difficult. In the Hapsburg Empire, there were at least two revolts (modern Hungary and Austria). In the italian and german states, there seem to have been a number of distinct revolts, with the latter leading into 1849. Still, German wikipedia does list it as de:Deutsche Revolution 1848/49 so maybe German Revolution of 1848/49 would be okay? Maybe we should ask some German historians... - TheMightyQuill 19:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with TMQ, "French Revolution of 1848" seems fine to me (I see your point, though.) K. Lásztocska 20:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: And the others?

message: The Hungarian cockade (kokárda) puts the red on the outside, gathering up the green on the inside. The picture seems to be of an Italian cockade. 72.81.57.8 (talk) 20:32, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cockade picture is incorrect 

message: Hungary had autonomy before the revoultion, and the demands (the twelve points) were about a democratical goverment, not autonomy, which already existed. Otherwise, Kossuth became governer in 1849. Toroko (talk) 12:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Demands

message: Hungary wasn't in war with Croats, but with troops from Croatia.
Because of circumstances, Croats from southern Hungary stood by Hungary. Because of that, later in Kingdom of Yugoslavia acts of those Croats were viewed as treason and those Croats as traitors, because they were not on the same side as Serbs (and Croats).
Simply told, Croats from southern Hungary were too close to huge Hungarian troops to take side against them, and too far away from friendly controlled territory, like Serbs from southern Hungary had. Croatian troops were engaged westwards. 
Choice was: either with numerous Hungarians against less numerous Serbs, or siding with less numerous Serbs (that had some dissatisfaction against Croats) against much stronger Hungarians. Kamarad Walter (talk) 23:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I copied the infobox from hu wiki word by word. In fact there were Croats, Slovaks, Serbs etc. on Kossuth side as well, but as far as I know they weren´t organized in some kind of independent units (as Jelačić soldiers were) but rather as part of Hungarian revolutionary army. In cases like this it is hard to decide who was on which side but since Croats on Hungary side didn´t have independent units with Croatian commanders we can´t include them into the infobox in my opinion. It´s like including Hungary on the Austrian side because there were Hungarians fighting against the revolution. --EllsworthSK (talk) 23:53, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually your argument falls apart right there as Hungarian royalists and Habsburg supporters did fight on the side of the Habsburg King. Revolutions tend to have this setup, the King and his supporters, and everyone else who opposes the King, regardless of anything else. Hobartimus (talk) 08:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah and there were also Soviet soldiers fighting on side of Nazi Germany during operation Barbadossa. The question - so what? Bytheway: what is the reason of removing the infobox? I found it quite informative (it´s in Magyar, Czech, Dannish and Russian wiki as well). If it is flag of Slovakia - it is flag of Slovak National Council established in 1848 in Vienna which was in charge of Slovaks fighting in revolution against the Kossuth army. Serbian flag is flag of Serbian Vojvodina, Romanian flag was also the correct one and Croatian was copied from commons where authour states that it is flag of Triune Kingdom of Dalmatia, Croatia and Slavonia from 1848. If it was only about un/sourcing of casulties than there was nothing more easier than copied the name of the books from hu wiki instead of deletion. So? --EllsworthSK (talk) 23:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction 

message: There is too less content in 1848–1849 massacres in Transylvania, there is no need to create a separate article for a content that could be included in other already existing ones (Iaaasi (talk) 14:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: The article claims "After securing all of Transylvania, Bem moved his 30,000–40,000-man Hungarian army against Austrian forces in the northern Banat capturing the city of Temesvár (now Timişoara, Romania)". Although Engels is mentioned as a source for this, it never happened. While the city was under siege from hungarian revolutionary forces, the imperial garrison held the city until it was successfully relieved by Haynau, after he won the battle of Temesvar against Bem, just as the linked article states.
Dead-cat (talk) 08:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Temesvar

message: What is with all the loaded politicking? First of all politics is not a straight line as most in the US think, second it is almost impossible to map 1848 political spectrum to today's; so why the need to use these slanted high-inference language?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.121.242 (talk) 15:14, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Liberal, Right-winger 

message: Why do you thing that monatary and fiscal status is "out of context" ?Litricsor (talk) 12:23, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the section is called "Status of Kingdom of Hungary before the revolution", and your text includes phrases like "After the revolution of 1848-1849" 86.127.24.105 (talk) 12:38, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Status of Kingdom of Hungary: Monetary and fiscal status

message: In this article the Russian forces entering Hungary are dismissed as less of ten thousand people, easily won by the patriots. In the article "Revolutions of 1848" it is said that Russian soldiers were over than 300.000. The difference is big and unavoidable. I think Russians were at least 190.000 and, mainly, were determining in crushing the Hungarian troops, since Austrian army was engaged against other uprisings.  Lele giannoni (talk) 12:38, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of Russian Troops

message: Some of the article looks to be copied from scanned documents, given odd typographic errors such as "Paris reached Pressburg 1 (March i)" and "I3" instead of "13" for a date. The language of those same paragraphs also reads less like neutral journalism. Sorry to come and nitpick, instead of just rewriting the content, but I thought it would be worth calling out in case someone is inspired to look for plagiarism. Owlmonkey (talk) 17:26, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scanned section? 

message: a.  "Article X of 1790".  What treaty or other instrument is being referenced?
b.  What is a "Hungarian Diet"?  Presumably, not the latest fad in weight loss.  Should this link to another page describing what it is?  (Later note: a link appears later in the paragraph to the Diet of Hungary.)
c.  What is a "rescript"? Ditto link to another page.
d.  A word of explanation of "the common monarch" would be welcome since this paragraph makes it clear at the start that Hungary was a separate monarchy.  Common and separate mean different, nearly opposite, things.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.45.182.9 (talk) 21:58, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed some contradictory remarks that are not entirely supported by the underlying source. Laszlo clearly states that in 1804, Hungary became formally part of the Austrian Empire, albeit with almost the same rights as it had before. See the articles on Ausgleich and Austrian Empire. I've included the quote from the source. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 14:52, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Status of Kingdom of Hungary before the revolution 

message: I mean this: 
 the forces of reactionary absolutism were everywhere supreme. But beneath the surface a strong popular current was beginning to run in a contrary direction. Hungarian society, not unaffected by western Liberalism, but without any direct help from abroad, was preparing for the future emancipation. Writers, savants, poets, artists, noble and plebeian, layman and cleric, without any previous concert, or obvious connection... 
I am slapping "personal essay" tag on it. Zezen (talk) 23:24, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: it's not bombastic, it is reasonably accurate and not very controversial. --that's just an old-fashioned style used by scholars in 1910 and popular historians more recently. The text is word for word from the Encyclopedia Britannica of 1902-- a great many of the historical articles in Wikipedia in fact were directly copied from that encyclopedia. Somehow the tagline indicating the source got dropped. Rjensen (talk) 23:44, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It's straight out of major encyclopedia--one Wiki copied for tens of thousands of articles. The style sound elegant and objective to me. -- is there an error?  The author is James Wycliffe Headlam-Morley, a well-known scholar. He wrote numerous articles that were copied into Wikipedia, see [for EB text] on "Hungary" which matches the quote in question here. Rjensen (talk) 01:39, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

text: Precisely. It reads like something from a Hungarian nationalist opera. 144.138.60.195 (talk) 12:02, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Bombastic POV style

message: Substituted at 18:29, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: "It's an old tradition (although nowadays not held by everyone) that Hungarians do not clink beer glasses or beer bottles. This is due to the legend that Austrians celebrated the execution of the 13 Hungarian Martyrs in 1849 by clinking their beer glasses, so Hungarians vowed not to clink with beer for 150 years." https://www.gapyear.com/countries/hungary/local-customs Marcin862 (talk) 16:12, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  13 Martyrs 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: A sentence from the section "American Civil War" appears incomplete a fragment with the problem is included below.  Likely intent was "of this comparatively small number [ there were 999? ] who rose to the rank of", with 999 clearly needing to be set to an accuratish number.
"... testimony to the military qualities of the Magyar people that of this comparatively small number who rose to the rank of Major-General, while five became Brigadier-Generals, fifteen Colonels, two Lieutenant-Colonels, ..." Ronaldws r+d (talk) 14:03, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomplete sentence section American Civil War 

message: The claim is controversial, and the source is the Hungarian Conservative, a political website. https://web.archive.org/web/20230730110111/https://www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/culture_society/hungary_europe_liberal_conservative_foreign_policy_reform_era/. I suggest removing the claim till we can find a source that does not violate NPOV. LotusEating (talk) 06:20, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnote 9 and claim 

message: Some time has passed since I suggested good faith edits and the page remains in a poor state. If there is no way to get nationalists to agree to substantive changes in line with contemporary scholarship, can we at least remove the political language? (e.g. "reactionary" Slovak forces)? LotusEating (talk) 05:08, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You want to remove political language from an article about a political revolution? Be more specific. Remsense诉 05:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits and discussion