Talk:Battle of Gaza (2007)

message: This article should be renamed Palestinian Civil War. [unknown anon editor]
:Disagree; this event was a coup d 'etat in the Gaza strip. Oldest such source I'm aware of is UK govt denouces coup d 'etat on Forbes, and has since been followed by numerious other countries denoucing it as a coup. Jon 13:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe name should change to "Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip" or something like that. Current name is ambiguous and probably won't be search able. Amoruso 17:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please rename 

message: Why is the page title "Battle for Gaza (2007)" and not "Battle of Gaza (2007)"? "Battle for Gaza (2007)" is a one-sided page title with Hamas' point of view. It certainly is not from the Palestinian Authority's point of view. "Battle of Gaza (2007)" is a more neutral title and will also be similar to many of the countless other battles which are named similarly. Also, how can a page move by Batmanand be marked as a minor edit? --121.6.67.214 17:18, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so too.  Not going to move it (waiting for more input), but I think that's a better title for the article. -- False Prophet 20:50, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should be Battle of Gaza. As it is most NPOV. Berlin in 1945 was also taken and still it's name on wiki is Battle of Berlin. As for Hamas coup d'etat it's not sourced fairly and it is currently only a Fatah accusation. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's not only Fatah calling it a coup d'etat. UK might have been the first country to call it that (re: article title on Forbes Friday) but several other countries are now. To be fair Hamas is calling the subequent Fatah action in the West Bank as a coup d'etat as well. Jon 13:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO if Hamas took both Gaza and the WB in a couple of days that would be a coup. A coup is when the whole government is seized, and Gaza is only a geographical part. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:20, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's indeed the major difference between this and the normal coup's. In most cases either the coup attempt totally succeeds throughout the country (recent example: Fiji 2006), or else totally fails (recent example Venezula 2002), or (rarely) degenerates into a civil war. Here we seem to have a case in which the coup was totally successful in Gaza, while at the same time totally failed in the West Bank. Jon 20:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, in my book if the elected majority party of the legislature forms a new government excluding the minority party sudenly it would be just as much a coup as if a minority party formed a new government excluding the majority party. I believe "counter coup" would be the approative terminology for the subseqent Fatah actions in the West Bank. Jon 21:42, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page title 

message: Background section seems rather too short. Shouldn't it begin with the skirmishes and repeated cease-fires, ceasefire collapses, etc, in May? 70.55.90.138 04:06, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Background 

message: Debka  is (IMHO) not a WP:RS source. Zeq 14:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They can sometimes be unreliable, yes, however they have an uncanny ability to scoop others on things like this. I have a quote from a spokesman of the Popular Resistance Committees to Aaron Klein, who on the basis of his Wikipedia biography I hold reliable.topynate 15:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Debka as source 

message: Why has the older discussion to this page been blanked?  Is there something in the older comments that is being suppressed? Valtam 03:39, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind - I guess this page is different than the Hamas - Fatah civil war page. Valtam 03:41, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  
Where is the archive of older edits to the discussion page?
 

message: I suggest to rename the section "Human rights violations" to "military crimes" as keeping human rights is too hard to expect during the war and what actually counts is better described as military crimes (POW killings, civil priperty seizure etc).--Dojarca 09:31, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No way! these must be portrayed as what they are "Human rights violations" and "War crimes" these terms get used all the time about US and British forces they apply when Hamas toss people off 15 story buildings. Hypnosadist 09:36, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I suggest to rename the section 

message: This section reads like anti Hamas propoganda. It is about christians in Gaza. But christains are an insignificant minority of the Gaza population. The section begins 
Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, but it only becomes apparent later in the paragraph that this is a quote from an "Islamist militant leader". The section goes on to quote "Sheik Abu Saqer, leader of Jihadia Salafiya", but who exactly is Jihadia Salafiya, what is their influence, and what if any is their relationship with the Hamas. 
The section is more a less a cut and paste job from an article by Aaron Klein in Jerusalem.
The section lacks any quotes from Hamas members, and says nothing about the position secular muslims. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 23:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "But christains are an insignificant minority of the Gaza population" says it all really. (Hypnosadist) 10:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain what you mean by "says it all". Christains are 0.7% of the population of Gaza. Are they being persuted by the Hamas? It would not suprise me. But I have seen no evidence of it so far. What I do no is that secular moslems, especially women have been attacked by the Hamas in the past (before their takeover of the strip). But there is nothing about this in the article. Furthermore this section says nothing about Hamas, but about an obscure group called Jihadia Salafiya. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 11:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Re-added line from the source that ties Hamas into this. As for secular moslems, please add any info you have on their problems under Hamas rule as that would be part of the religious consequences of this event. (Hypnosadist) 11:47, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please be so kind as to adress the comments I made above, the question of undue wight being given to Christains, and the the use of a quote from Jihadia Salafiya in an sectin on the Hamas victory. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 11:53, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious consequences 

message: I added the part about CIA intelligence docs a few days ago. I used Debka as a source, but it was pointed out to me that it is unreliable. However, the other source I found, WorldNetDaily, is a subject of some controversy here, and if you visit Talk:Aaron_Klein you'll find he likes to edit his own article a lot. As Abu Ali pointed out above, a lot of this article now contains claims sourced solely from Aaron Klein, who, reliable as he may be, is talking to people that are completely unknown on the net other than through him. Do we keep these claims and quotes, or not? topynate 14:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:V states that we need multiple reliable sources for anything  here. So find the sources and nything which is not supported by multiple reliable sources should be deleted.  There is plenty of material around on Hamas' harrasment of secular Gazans in the past. But what I have seen since their victory in Gaza seems to suggest they intend to soft peddle on Islamic law for now in order to try to consolidate their control of the strip. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 20:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aaron Klein and WorldNetDaily 

message: I question if this is a reliable source for any factual claims. A more respected and less politically-extreme newspaper would be a far better choice for referencing. Tim Vickers 22:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WorldNetDaily]]

message: Reuters now calls this event as a civil war. See:   "They have been searching for Fatah men," said the official, Ibrahim Abu An-Naja, alleging Hamas has been carrying out nightly raids on homes since defeating Fatah forces in the territory in a brief civil war last month. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Civil War 

message: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1192380636961  Zeq 07:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source about amnesty  

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Palestinian prisoners.jpg

message: This really should not be called the "Battle of Gaza, but the Battle for Gaza.  question:  Isn't a battle generally only a part of a larger war?  Is Hamas at war with Fatah? If so, would this Battle for Gaza be part of an ongoing larger Hamas-Fatah war?  Was it a one-battle war? Stellarkid (talk) 04:36, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name issue again 

message: "Hamas took control" sounds like rotation agreement, while in fact it was millitary Coup d'état. Netanel h (talk) 09:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Not exactly. nableezy - 13:16, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not? please explain your opnion. Netanel h (talk) 19:08, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Hamas took control or comitted [[Coup d'état]]?

message: The section title and first paragraph seem to be an original research based on the leaked paper titled "Palestinian Vision for Resolving the Current PA Crisis". 
Which ignore what stated in the document that this is plan to "re-establish and reinvigorate our partnership with the international community on the basis of international law and legitimacy". In case no agreement between the factions is reached, since it the current harmful situation cannot go on indefinitely. 
Why we need additional WP:RS sources to weed out the bias.--PLNR (talk) 19:56, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: The Abbas/Fatah plan to replace the government

message: Someone worked hard to emphasis the British, US, Israeli, arab state involvement in favor of Fatah, in any way possible, but reading some of the linked articles, it seems that quotes were selectively picked from sources, on one hand using comments concerning USA on the other hand ignoring comments concerning Iran helping arm and fund Hamas political and military activities.--PLNR (talk) 20:09, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Iranian involvement?

message: In the preceding period, the US and Israel apparently strengthened Fatah's military power to topple Hamas.  Kirtimaansyal (talk) 16:46, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please give reference to this statement or else remove it 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: The number of casulaties is wrong according to wafa a pna affiliated news agency 416 people of them fighters in the Palestinian National Security Forces and Civilianshttp://info.wafa.ps/ar_page.aspx?id=9198  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Mohmad (talk • contribs) 14:58, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of casulaties 

message: Opening sentence of first paragraph, delete added word "the": "The Battle of Gaza, also referred to as Hamas' takeover of Gaza, was a military conflict between Fatah and Hamas, that took place in the Gaza Strip between (delete)the(delete) June 10 and 15, 2007." Durdyfiv1 (talk) 02:41, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: WikiMacaroonsCinnamon? 07:54, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 August 2020 

message: Why isn't there a "strength" part between the "Units involved" and "Casualties and losses" in the infobox? Aminabzz (talk) 16:21, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strength 

message: Minor typo: "the "unfair is written, one of the quotation marks should be removed Domotorp (talk) 08:58, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: In the original BBC article, the words "unfair conditions" are in double quotes. To avoid confusion with the enclosing quotation marks, I put the two words in single quotes instead. Liu1126 (talk) 12:10, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 November 2023