Talk:Hebrides

message: The Hebrides sections are weak on the physical geography and the agricultural methods of the region. I will think about what to do about it and encourage others to do also. MartinY 17:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Geography and Agriculture

message: I have created a Template:Infobox Scottish island for use with Scottish islands which is based on the existing Template:Infobox Scotland place but which contains parameters which may be more useful for smaller islands which don't have their own police force or Lord Lieutenant. Comments are welcome on the associated talk page. 
I have created it as a template for all Scottish islands and used an image of a longboat next to the Saltire to emphasise the difference with the Scotland place Template. The said image is called Image:McdonaldBoat.jpg. Before ancient foes of Clan Donald complain, I am assured by User:Calgacus that the proper name for this image is a 'Lymphad' and that its was actually purloined from the Russian wikipedia. He also points out that the same image appears for example at the bottom of Image:Norse-Gael_Warrior.PNG and the Sinclair Orkney arms   which suggests to me that the lymphad may be appropriate for all our isles whether they have a primarily Celtic or primarily Norse history. This note has been copied in various places including Talk:Orkney Talk:Shetland Talk:Hebrides Talk:Islands of the Clyde etc. 
An example of the template may be found at:Flannan Isles
There is space for references. Groupings and population information are available at List of islands of Scotland the latter being based on the 2001 census. Area measurements for the 162 islands of 100 acres or more in size are available in Haswell-Smith, Hamish. (2004) The Scottish Islands. Edinburgh. Canongate. I'd be happy to pass the relevant numbers on if needed, although I doubt I am going to get around to listing all 162. There is more on this subject at Template talk:Infobox Scottish island. Ben MacDui (Talk) 10:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if I'm likely to get round to listing all 162 either, but it would be very interesting to see the list. Warofdreams talk 01:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Island Template 

message: Isn't a historical title of Scottish kings "King of Scotland and The Western Isles", denoting that a) they were considered a separate legal entity from the mainland, and b) they came under Scottish soveriegnity at some period? I'm uncertain, however, if the title is legit or a romantic contrivance. LessHeard vanU 12:17, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a few notes about the confusion and its origins. Ben MacDui 19:41, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western Isles 

message: How is this supposed to be pronounced? Zigzig20s 18:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It should maybe best be written with IPA in consideration, like some of the more major Wikipedia articles. Nagelfar (talk) 09:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation? 

message: Hebrides: "The Hebrides were settled during the Mesolithic era around 6500 BC, after the climatic conditions improved enough to sustain human settlement."
History of the Outer Hebrides: "The Hebrides were settled early on in the settlement of the British Isles, perhaps as early as the Mesolithic era, around 8500-8250 BC, after the climatic conditions improved enough to sustain human settlement."
Inner Hebrides: "The Hebrides were settled early on in the settlement of the British Isles, perhaps as early as the Mesolithic era, around 8500-8250 BC, after the climatic conditions improved enough to sustain human settlement."
Something went wrong here. I guess the date '8500-8250' originally wasn't 'BC' but 'before now' and the authors forgot to subtract '2000' to get '6500-6250' which would match to the date in the Hebrides-article. I consider 6500 BC more likely, compared with the articles about Orkney and Shetland. And I would prefer if it is written '6500 - 6250' with spaces between the words. Truchses (talk) 19:32, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The earliest Mesolithic site in the Hebrides is on Rùm and dated to 7700-7500.  An Corran on Skye was discovered before this site and is dated to 8,500 years ago so your analysis may well be correct. There is some indirect evidence of older human activity than Rum from South Uist, but all of them should probably say "from the 8th millennium BC" or something along those lines. Ben MacDui 09:20, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  ? 6500 BC / 8500-8250 BC 

message: "General view of the Hebrides"...?  No it isn't - it's a view (with added plane wing) of part of one of the islands - maybe Lewis, or Uist, I don't know.  Can someone with local knowledge clarify this please?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:47, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly North Uist - very hard to tell unless you happen to know the exact area very well. I suppose it is a "typical view" or similar, but feel free to replace it so far as I'm concerned. Ben MacDui 18:10, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately I've hardly been to the Hebrides - if it is to be replaced, it would be done better by someone who knows the area, maybe with an image from Geograph.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. The article needs a complete revamp - ideally in summary style based on the Inner Hebrides and [[Outer Hebrides}] articles. The former is done, the latter will be on the conveyor belt sometime soon. Ben MacDui 08:20, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo caption 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150510140758/http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/census/censushm/occpapers/occasional-paper-10.html to http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/census/censushm/occpapers/occasional-paper-10.html
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thread_title:  External links modified I 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Hebrides. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150510140758/http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/census/censushm/occpapers/occasional-paper-10.html to http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/census/censushm/occpapers/occasional-paper-10.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100122045621/http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk:80/oswebsite/getamap/ to http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/
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thread_title:  External links modified II 

message: In common usage, people who are not from the islands, even if they are British and especially if they are not Gaelic-speaking, are considered "foreign" and called "white settlers" in English or "Gall" (non-Gael) in Gaelic. See  here. I could cite more examples if you'd like. Alázhlis (talk) 09:53, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: There is only one relevant use of the word "foreign" in that source, on page 36, dating from 1910.  That is hardly sufficient to claim it as "common usage".   Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:05, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The book is titled "white settlers." It is hardly WP:Original Research to suggest that this means "foreign." You are correct that it is unnecessary in context, but the term was not misapplied. However, I don't wish to get into an unproductive discussion, so I'll leave it at that. Alázhlis (talk) 10:23, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

text: I know that in Wikipedia terms the mere fact that I am from the Isle of Lewis in the Hebrides does not make me a reliable source, but in my experience 'foreign' was never a word used to describe all non-Hebrideans, and 'white settlers' was a term used only when one wished to be insulting or dismissive. Iaineditor (talk) 16:15, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

text: For interest, perhaps the most common term used to describe people from away who had come to live on the island would have been 'incomers' ('from away', of course, is another). 'White settlers' was used, never positively or neutrally (unless humorously), to describe a particular kind of incomer. (Others may have different experiences and memories. None of this is authoritatively encyclopedic, but it may be of interest nonetheless! :-) ) Iaineditor (talk) 17:28, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks so much for your insight. I have indeed seen "incomers" more often and it seems like a more neutral descriptor. Alázhlis (talk) 17:58, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Foreign" as concerns the Hebrides 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130909233045/http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/Misc/Etymology.html to http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/Misc/Etymology.html
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thread_title:  External links modified III 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140530191658/http://donniemunro.co.uk/bio.htm to http://www.donniemunro.co.uk/bio.htm
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130603050143/http://www.kilda.org.uk/frame2.htm to http://www.kilda.org.uk/frame2.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150114203456/http://www.isle-of-south-uist.co.uk/attractions-south-uist.htm to http://www.isle-of-south-uist.co.uk/attractions-south-uist.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified VI 

message: Hi User:CelticBrian, I reverted one of your edits for 1) opinion-based statement that Gaelic culture only survives in the Hebrides, 2) implication that Gaelic music is now limited to the Hebrides (much of the recordings, even by Hebridean-based artists, are made in Glasgow or Inverness, and an increasing number of artists such as Rachel Walker have no connection to the Gàidhealtachd at all). Catrìona (talk) 19:19, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think he clearly means the predominant culture/identity, which was/is apt (but even the Highlands are not particularly Gaelic now). I mean they make all kinds of music in Glasgow and Inverness, country western culture is not prevalent there.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.216.40 (talk) 01:45, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It's abundantly clear you didn't even read the text that was reverted. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:17, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reversion of edit by [[User:CelticBrian]] 

message: I question the following: "The British government's strategy was to estrange the clan chiefs from their kinsmen and turn their descendants into English-speaking landlords whose main concern was the revenues their estates brought rather than the welfare of those who lived on them." (refers to post-Culloden activity). Both the cited reference (Hunter) and other historians make clear that a sequence of monarchs and governments had sought to impose control on Hebridean clan chiefs. Picking out the single instance of post-Culloden repression is misleading in its brevity. Without mention of other factors that created "landlordism" among clan chiefs, this single sentence should not appear in the article. As an alternative to deletion, the article could mention the Statutes of Iona (which were specifically targeted at Hebridean chiefs), which, among other things, compelled eldest sons of more affluent families to be educated in English-speaking schools. The rising need for cash among clan chiefs was also derived from the obligation to attend the Privy Council in Edinburgh, and large financial sureties required for the good behaviour of their clansmen. (This whole picture then moves into the problem of chronic debts and the resultant largescale clearout of hereditary landowners.)
The mention of the clearances has no reference to the potato famine. This is a particular problem as Hunter is used extensively as a reference, yet he is the historian who has oversimplified his understanding of the famine (as he acknowledges in the preface to the second edition of The Making of the Crofting Community). The famine was, for many, the proximate cause of emigration. At a minimum, it would be better to use more than one source and include a link to the Highland potato famine. It would be entirely wrong for a reader of this article to go away with the impression that the sole reason for clearances in the Hebrides was the introduction of sheep.
Achieving the above improvements without creating too much additional text will be a challenge.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 10:26, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Landlordism/potato famine 

message: Why are some of the island names italicized in the tables? There doesn’t appear to be any explanation. 99.73.35.160 (talk) 18:48, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is clear that someone has decided to italicise island names which are in Gaelic. This is, I think, quite acceptable where the island name has no genuine English langauge equivalent. However, it has not been done consistently. 'Danna' for instance is also the English language name. I will tidy this up. It would probably mean only using italics where the article name has a diacritic not used in English (although there is likley a common English language spelling without the accent). Ben MacDui 16:04, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Done - the article titles are not consistent, which means thare are some judgement calls involved. Ben MacDui 16:16, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italics in tables of island names