Talk:Tumult of Thorn (Toruń)

message: Are there any sources for the current title of the article? I haven't found any publications referring to the incident as the "Toruń Blood tribunal". I do not have the book personally, but Davies refers to the city as "Thorn" in God's Playground. Also, the capitalization should be made consistent (with the current phrasing, either Toruń Blood Tribunal or Toruń blood tribunal). Olessi 19:17, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article pretty much repeats what's already in Torun article. I haven't spot anything new. I think either this should be removed, or Torun article should be shortened. Szopen 07:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

text: User:Piotrus moved  the article without any reason other than "please discuss it at talk first". Discussing at this talk page here is exactly what PP did not. -- Matthead discuß!     O       16:40, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You moved it first  which is nothing bad in the start of the article, then Olessi reworded it  which is not controversial. Then you came with name change  which definitely is controversial. All next moves are just restorations of original state before your undiscussed move. Let's rather discuss the better name than fighting each other in endless edit war. ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 13:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Title

message: Tumult is an english word, and the events are described as such.--Molobo 09:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because your suggested phrasing has not been used in English,, and when "tumult" has been used, it is in the phrasing "Tumult of Thorn". Olessi 15:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One link does not signify the ideal title, especially when Thorn has been used more frequently. Olessi 15:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You claimed the title doesn't exist. When I learned mathematics one was not a zero, and besides it was just beginning of my search. Are you still denying that the phrase exists in English language ? --Molobo 16:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides "more frequently" doesn't mean correctly. Toruń was in Poland then, so let's call the city by it's contemporary name. "Frequency" of use of the other name comes from the Cold War period tendency to avoid Polish names when referring to western and northern Polish territories. Modern books and web pages still use pre 1989 sources, therefore the "frequency". We should follow the pioneers of the correct way of naming, not blindly go with ignorant majority. We're writing an encyclopedia here, people! Space Cadet 16:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Articles in the English WP about historical events should be titled according to how they are most commonly referred to in the English language, regardless of how the places involved may happen to be referred to in the present day.  The historical terminology may be a translation of the phrase "Torun tumult" in Polish, but it is not in English. Olessi 00:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why not Tumult of Torun ? 

message: Really, putting a comment on Poles by Voltaire is not neutral, at least without context. He desired to murder for Catherine, and called for extermination of Polish people.
--Molobo 20:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously you think that Poles "neglect the fine arts and lock up women". Well, I don't. Sciurinæ 20:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither do I but Voltaire did. His statements must be put in context of his desire to murder for Catherine in order to serve her and calls to exterminate opponents of Russia--Molobo 20:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voltaire 

message: *What is the connection between the Blood Tribunal and the witch hunt article? If you mean religious persecutions say it. 
BTW the article says:"Britain - There continued to be occasional prosecutions under the Witchcraft Act in the 19th and 20th century". 
Xx236 14:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Witch hunt? 

message: Many protestant sources marginalize the riots (See the article:The Blood Tribunal of Toruń  refers to the execution). Xx236 15:06, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Polish history books, the events are rarely mentioned, or marginalized 

message: - As a descendant of Jacob Heinrich Zernecke I know for sure he did not convert to cathlicism. After being free he left Thorn and went to Danzig and he has written about the time in prison. It is true that a Jesuit priest promised his life would be saved if he would convert, but he refused and thought he would be beheaded like the others. I know the Zernecke family paid an amount of money to set him free and maybe this helped. King August gave him grace and it is said that he regretted to have signed the death penalties (he had been protestant before becoming king of Poland) but I don't know this for sure. In fact one of the others converted and was spared, but it was not Zernecke. 
(this was removed- posting it here)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.133.77.60 (talk) 18:53, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Descendant of Zernecke - Update 

message: The quoted source was written in 1979, Poland has changed since that time. Please remeber that Germans exterminated Polish historians, later started the war against the SU, lost it and caused Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe, during which academic research was controlled by the Communists.Xx236 (talk) 12:43, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Polish history books, the event rarely finds mention 

message: During ages Germans and Russians created the image of dirty and primitive Poles. Since that time Germans and Soviets murdered tens of millions, destroied tens of thousands of churches. But Poles are still the bad guys, and Western writers finnaced by Russian and Prussian rulers are authorities since Voltaire to Aragon.
I doubt that any US editor quotes here  19th century stories about primitive Black slaves, but protestant opinions about Poles are more important than historical context of religious persecutions in Europe of that time. Xx236 (talk) 12:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protestant and Prussian  bias 

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thread_title:  External links modified