Talk:Louis de Broglie

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
As discussed below, Louis de Broglie is the name he is known by in English (as is given in Wikipedia:Naming conventions). I added the move tag accordingly. Benplowman 20:25, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article has been renamed  as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 06:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: If Louis de Broglie was a French duke, then it follows that his title wouldn't be the seventh (7th) duc de Broglie, but Louis, le septième (7ième) duc de Broglie. Does anyone think the same, or should the seventh (7th) be left there for English people? (this is, after all, English Wikipedia).--Clickheretologin 13:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On the point raised here (although I support the change above), no. We are written in English, for English speakers. Including septième as well as seventh is redundant for readers who know French, and almost pointless for those who don't.  Going to :fr:Louis de Broglie suggests that the French don't use it either; and if they did, it would be there. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Neither.  Since this guy is known for actually doing something, not just for holding a title, Wikipedia:Naming conventions says that the article should be the name by which he is best known in English:  Louis de Broglie, or possibly Louis Victor de Broglie or Louis-Victor de Broglie.  One or another of those spellings, of course, is used in the vast majority of the articles linking here, and I'd bet that almost all of them linking to the current article name were changed from something else at some time after this article was created.  All the duke stuff, in both English and French, can appear in the intro, but it doesn't belong in the article name.  Gene Nygaard 17:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Duke

message: This article is poorly written. A complete rewrite may be necassary.Woldo 00:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up 

message: "His doctoral thesis is said to be three pages long"
These things are usually public, so this should be easy to check. Either "said to be" must go, or the entire sentence. Shinobu 13:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard that claim made on the web, but it seems to be nothing but an urban legend. The published version of de Broglie's thesis, "Recherches sur la théorie des quanta" is 111 pages long.  -- Tim314 14:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three pages 

message: I've heard his name pronounced a thousand different ways (de BROGlee, de BROGHlee de BROlee, de BROY)... any Francophones out there want to clarify this for the rest of us? --24.147.86.187 15:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is in fact no "el" sound () in the pronunciation of this name. --Iceager (talk) 12:57, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

text: Ok, I added  to the article and listed it first, but I've kept the previous pronunciation of  as an alternative. Even though I haven't found any sources for the latter, I don't doubt that it is what lots of French speakers actually use. Perhaps someone can find an outside source and add it to the article. --Iceager (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I was most definitely taught by another family of (ci-devant) Normandy aristocracy that the name is correctly pronounced . That's also the only pronunciation given in the French WP. Awien (talk) 15:08, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: This article was automatically  assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 07:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: I have looked at many of his pictures over the course of his life, and he looks biracial or part black. He features, and his hair texture brought me to question his racial make up.  His hair is afro in texture.  That is not at all typical of anyone that does not have African ancestry.  Also he never married. It was commonplace for black people in his day, passing for white for success in their careers, not to marry, because what the child may look like when it is born.
Can anyone provide a picture of his mother and father? Or any evidence that he may be black?  76.118.226.39 (talk) 23:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is complete nonsense as nobody cares whether he was or not. However, since he was a member of the French aristocracy as a Count, it is highly unlikely. --Bduke (talk) 11:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why unlikely? The current ruler of Monaco, Prince Albert, has a "black" son (although illegitimately). 86.169.77.110 (talk) 00:11, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

text: In my estimation it's amply evident, Bduke, that at least one person does care (or did care circa 2007). I also don't personally care; but I'm not inclined to tell other folks not to believe what they see. The OP said that de Broglie appears to have negroid features. Do you mean to insinuate that de Broglie doesn't appear that way to the OP? Why is it nonsense to suggest such a thing? I personally don't think it's impossible. I also don't think his status as a noble peer makes it obviously unlikely. In fact I have no way of computing the likelihood that any one member of the Nobility may or may not have genes mixed with the Peasantry. I bet that you don't, either.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.223.130.32 (talk) 23:43, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Here we discuss the article, not the subject—see wp:talk page guidelines. - DVdm (talk) 17:13, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

text: Quite possibly. Another famous Frenchman, Alexandre Dumas had "black" blood. De Broglie's features could also be Jewish. Who knows? 86.169.77.110 (talk) 00:08, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was de Broglie Black? 

message: If nobody objects during the next several days, I plan to add the following to the article.
"De Broglie's argument began with the supposition that 'the basic idea of quantum theory is the impossibility of considering an isolated fragment of energy without assigning a certain frequency to it.'  The particles of radiation -- and of matter as well --  had a level of existence that was fundamentally a 'periodic process.' "p. 277, Cropper, William H. Great Physicists: The Life and Times of Leading Physicists from Galileo to Hawking. Oxford, U.K.: Oxford University Press, 2001,  Here is the footnote in case you can't read it back there.  p. 277, Cropper, William H. Great Physicists: The Life and Times of Leading Physicists from Galileo to Hawking. Oxford, U.K.: Oxford University Press, 2001.
Thanks for your attention. Earththings (talk) 19:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal for adding detail about his theory to the article

message: The paragraph below makes a number of dubious claims, only some of which can be blamed on a poor translation from the French. Someone else clean it up or I will give it a try. Problems include but are not limited to:
1.  Atomism has not been "ruined" by matter-waves; Wikipedia's article on 'Atoms' and on 'Atomism' indicates no such ruination.
2.  The author is making unsubstantiated assertions when he argues that "a pure mathematical entity" gives matter merely an "appearance of wave behavior." This is hardly a settled scientific fact.
3.  Changes in de Broglie's viewpoint are not accurately described.
4.  The following statement is misleading at best: "The de Broglie-Bohm theory is today the only interpretation giving real status to matter-waves...." Objective collapse interpretations, including that of Penrose, give a real status to the wave function and such an entity can certainly be termed a "matter wave" in the sense that Bohm and de Broglie used it.
-------------From the current article:
"From a philosophical viewpoint, this theory of matter-waves has contributed greatly to the ruin of the atomism of the past. Originally, de Broglie thought that real wave (i.e., having a direct physical interpretation) was associated with particles. In fact, the wave aspect of matter was formalized by a wavefunction defined by the Schrödinger equation, which is a pure mathematical entity having a probabilistic interpretation, without the support of real physical elements. This wavefunction gives an appearance of wave behavior to matter, without making real physical waves appear. However, until the end of his life de Broglie returned to a direct and real physical interpretation of matter-waves, following the work of David Bohm. The de Broglie-Bohm theory is today the only interpretation giving real status to matter-waves and representing the predictions of quantum theory. But, since it has some problems and doesn't go further in its predictions than the Copenhagen interpretation, it is little recognized by the scientific community."
Chrisman62 (talk) 21:12, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad paragraph... 

message: How did he die?  And where?
65.185.171.242 (talk) 21:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Old age? 86.169.77.110 (talk) 00:14, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  de Broglie's Death 

message: "The fundamental idea of [my 1924 thesis] was the following: The fact that, following Einstein's introduction of photons in light waves, one knew that light contains particles which are concentrations of energy incorporated into the wave, suggests that all particles, like the electron, must be transported by a wave into which it is incorporated... My essential idea was to extend to all particles the coexistence of waves and particles discovered by Einstein in 1905 in the case of light and photons." "With every particle of matter with mass m and velocity v a real wave must be 'associated'", related to the momentum by the equation:
:\lambda = \frac{h}{p} = \frac {h}{{m}{v}} \sqrt{1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2}}
where \lambda is the wavelength, h is the  Planck constant, p is the momentum, m is the rest mass, v is the velocity and c is the speed of light in a vacuum."
This theory set the basis of wave mechanics. It was supported by Einstein, confirmed by the electron diffraction experiments of Davisson and Germer, and generalized by the work of Schrödinger.
However, this generalization was statistical and was not approved of by de Broglie, who said "that the particle must be the seat of an internal periodic movement and that it must move in a wave in order to remain in phase with it was ignored by the actual physicists [who are] wrong to consider a wave propagation without localization of the particle, which was quite contrary to my original ideas."
From a philosophical viewpoint, this theory of matter-waves has contributed greatly to the ruin of the atomism of the past. Originally, de Broglie thought that real wave (i.e., having a direct physical interpretation) was associated with particles. In fact, the wave aspect of matter was formalized by a wavefunction defined by the Schrödinger equation, which is a pure mathematical entity having a probabilistic interpretation, without the support of real physical elements. This wavefunction gives an appearance of wave behavior to matter, without making real physical waves appear. However, until the end of his life de Broglie returned to a direct and real physical interpretation of matter-waves, following the work of David Bohm. The de Broglie–Bohm theory is today the only interpretation giving real status to matter-waves and representing the predictions of quantum theory.
==== de Broglie believed that his theory was distinct from Bohm's pilot wave theory ====
==== de Broglie's wave mechanics description of wave-particle duality ====
==== de Broglie's wave mechanics explanation for the behaviors in a double slit experiment ====
John Bell describes what occurs in a double slit experiment according to de Broglie's wave mechanics as a 'particle' and 'wave' where the particle passes through just one of the two holes and the waves propagating through both. In a book by J.S. Redinha the particle is described as a 'singularity' which passes through one slit or the other, and the "pilot wave" through both slits.
In de Broglie wave mechanics the particle travels a well defined path which takes it through one slit. The associated wave in the hidden medium passes through both. As the wave exits the slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single slit the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference. This is the wave guiding the particle. Strongly detecting the particle exiting a single slit destroys the cohesion between the particle and its associated wave and the particle continues on the trajectory it was traveling.
==== Walking droplets ====
Yves Couder and co-workers recently discovered a macroscopic pilot wave system in the form of walking droplets. This system exhibits behaviour of a pilot wave, heretofore considered to be reserved to microscopic phenomena.Y. Couder, A. Boudaoud, S. Protière, Julien Moukhtar, E. Fort: Walking droplets: a form of wave-particle duality at macroscopic level? , , (PDF)
MIT researchers expand the range of quantum behaviors that can be replicated in fluidic systems, offering a new perspective on wave-particle duality. This physical picture is remakably similar to an early model of quantum dynamics proposed by Louis de Broglie..."
==== References ====
Lack of conversation does not mean consensus is in your favor, especially when you have done next to nothing to address my or DVdm's concerns. I'm tired of sounding like a broken record, so "see above". --FyzixFighter (talk) 02:19, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Note - the repeated addition of the above content resulted in a 1 month block for user Mpc755. Content collapsed. - DVdm (talk) 14:48, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matter and wave–particle duality 

message: Lack of conversation does not mean consensus is in your favor, especially when you have done next to nothing to address my or DVdm's concerns. I'm tired of sounding like a broken record, so "see above". --FyzixFighter (talk) 02:19, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Note - the repeated addition of the above content resulted in a 1 month block for user Mpc755. Content collapsed. - DVdm (talk) 14:48, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: The pronunciation file won't play on any of the several media players I've tried it on.
How about replacing it with a more universal standard format file, like .WAV or .MP3?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It's pretty standard here—see article Ogg, and check the sound clips in article Frank Zappa . When downloaded as a local file, it plays with VLC media player, foobar2000 and BS.player Free. It directly plays in my browser version of Firefox. - DVdm (talk) 19:30, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely with the IP editor. Can't play OGG, can't be bothered to pursue enabling it. It got chosen back at the dawn of time, fine. Now it's long past time to replace it with something more accessible. Awien (talk) 17:31, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: WTF is "ogg"?

message: I removed claims of his atheism, as the supporting links did not show atheism specifically. One states he had "ceased the religious practices of his youth." This doesn't necessarily mean he was an atheist. The other source is from a "list of the nonreligous, the agnostics, and the atheists," which doesn't add specificity and is probably based on the former anecdote.
In terms of evidence for non-atheism, he came from a family who gave the Church many ecclesiastics; his funeral was held at the Church of Saint-Pierre-de-Neuilly; the book Les Professeurs de la faculté des sciences de Paris, 1901-1939 states he was Catholic: https://www.persee.fr/doc/inrp_0298-5632_1989_ant_25_1_8664; and his brother, Maurice, was a member of L’Union Catholique des Scientifiques Français.Akasseb (talk) 23:26, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Supposed Atheism 

message: Two parts of two pages discuss de Broglie's most famous and impactful contribution: Matter waves and their wavelength.
1) Here on the page devoted to his life, we have "Matter and wave–particle duality". This section is at least a printed page in length and yet it starts by pointing to a subsection of Matter Wave. IMO this section contains unreferenced material of philosophical character, not suited to de Broglie's history nor physics.
2) On Matter Wave we have a long section on history focused on de Broglie and his impact. 
We need Matter Wave to expand to include many new results in contemporary physics and to include historical material for Matter waves as a subject rather than de Broglie alone. 
My proposal it a new page  "De Broglie hypothesis" combining the content for the two sources above. In those two places shorter sections would lead readers to the more in depth content. This new page would be focused on the most famous work of de Broglie and it's impact.
Johnjbarton (talk) 00:32, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matter and wave–particle duality vs Matter wave page. 

message: The Louis de Broglie page was move to a page "Louis de Broglie, 7th Duke of Broglie" without discussion. 
The 7th dukeness of Louis de Broglie is a small footnote on this Nobel prize winner's legacy and does not belong in the title of his Bio.
This very topic was previously discussed Talk:Louis_de_Broglie#Requested_move.
I reverted the move. Johnjbarton (talk) 14:53, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverted move