Template talk:Ethnic and social groups of the Punjab/Archive 1

message: This template should not be blanked! and delete tag attached to it without a discussion on why it should be deleted --Street Scholar 17:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  User [[User:Street Scholar|Street Scholar]] 

message: Hi - I agree with Rajatghai that this tag should not be used, owing to the controversial and unreliable nature of information. Satbir Singh should provide some reliable sources in order to prove that a consensus of scholars believe these tribes are Kshatriya. Quite frankly, I don't think any tag should be used at all for any of these tribes and castes - it is simply sufficient to describe them and "castes and tribes," and just name the respective groups without further categorization. This will help reduce the length, confusion to the reader and other users and controversial tags. This Fire Burns Always  05:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Calling someones valid point "uncivil" is  personal attack.user:Rama's Arrow is just trying to twist the matter.Can he specify-- Do you know where Vyasadeva's original work is, what it reads like? Is an English translation necessarily inferior to a Hindi/Sanskrit version?.I don't think he has any point to make.Holy---+---Warrior 07:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Ancient Kshatriya tribes" 

message: ===Mr Ghai is in his true Kshatriya form===
Whoa!Whoa!Whoa! Till now I was holding myself from making any personal remarks. But this gem above has really awakened the Kshatriya in me. 
THE BIG CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG. I had long suspected this but now, the above humongous comment has proved it to be true.
So, the whole plan was to highlight the great Kamboj Kshatriya warriors of old. I should have read this subtle intent long ago when I first came across articles of the "Original Researcher" (gee! Irfan Habib, Romila Thapar, Ramachandra Guha, P N Oak, Khushwant Singh, Kartar Duggal  and other Indian historians of all hues whther right, left or centre, now have company in the form of a brand new mambar in their midst), the "great Kamboj warrior", Satbir Singh. Saka Nanakana, Baba Amar Singh Nibber, Bhai Mahi Singh Sunam etc. etc. had a most obvious thread linking them all: Kamboj.
I should have also understood when I saw the "original research" of "another great Kamboj warrior", Mr. Size Cavalry no 1: Kamboj, Kamboja, Kambojas, Kamboh and Kamboj.
Well, if This Fire Burns Always  is  my "Understudy", then these two "researcher"-warriors must be visiting fellows at some Ivy League University.
But, if that is the case, the point that befuddles me is why do they talk in the boorish tones 
of hutzels? Are they studying in Manhattan or Mandi Gobindgarh? Frankly, I have no idea.
Perhaps that is why, This Fire Burns Always  avoided replying any further to their "war-cries".
Well, fellows, I won't repeat my "Ramayana or Mahabharata" again on the bone of contention. Another "Understudy" of mine has advised me on the matter ("reliable source" available here User talk:Rajat Ghai) and I have reached the following decision:
I do not want other people to suffer at the hands of two rustic yokels who want to indulge in caste-wars, for my sake. My "understudy", ImpuMozhi had advised me long ago about the dangers of participating in matters pertaining to caste. I was a cad since I did not listen to him then. Now, two hoodlums have proved him right.
As an afterthought, I am extremely ashamed of myself that I have to belch out so much bile in this post, that I have to stoop to the level of a hooligan. I would have never done this had it not been for the above post.
I hereby request the administrators to DELETE this template. I have learnt my lesson. I do not want to waste my manhours, my energy and my money on trying to convince a pair of nincompoops about the importance of neutrality. I have many other useful pursuits on this portal as well as in my personal life.
Ah yes! the two "gentlemen" whom I have abused so much in this post are most welcome to vandalise my user page. And after you have had your fill, I hope to Heaven that never
may our paths cross again. "Thank you" (my last courtesy). Rajat Ghai 07:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  LET IT INDEED BE THE END 

message: Whoa!Whoa!Whoa! Till now I was holding myself from making any personal remarks. But this gem above has really awakened the Kshatriya in me. 
THE BIG CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG. I had long suspected this but now, the above humongous comment has proved it to be true.
So, the whole plan was to highlight the great Kamboj Kshatriya warriors of old. I should have read this subtle intent long ago when I first came across articles of the "Original Researcher" (gee! Irfan Habib, Romila Thapar, Ramachandra Guha, P N Oak, Khushwant Singh, Kartar Duggal  and other Indian historians of all hues whther right, left or centre, now have company in the form of a brand new mambar in their midst), the "great Kamboj warrior", Satbir Singh. Saka Nanakana, Baba Amar Singh Nibber, Bhai Mahi Singh Sunam etc. etc. had a most obvious thread linking them all: Kamboj.
I should have also understood when I saw the "original research" of "another great Kamboj warrior", Mr. Size Cavalry no 1: Kamboj, Kamboja, Kambojas, Kamboh and Kamboj.
Well, if This Fire Burns Always  is  my "Understudy", then these two "researcher"-warriors must be visiting fellows at some Ivy League University.
But, if that is the case, the point that befuddles me is why do they talk in the boorish tones 
of hutzels? Are they studying in Manhattan or Mandi Gobindgarh? Frankly, I have no idea.
Perhaps that is why, This Fire Burns Always  avoided replying any further to their "war-cries".
Well, fellows, I won't repeat my "Ramayana or Mahabharata" again on the bone of contention. Another "Understudy" of mine has advised me on the matter ("reliable source" available here User talk:Rajat Ghai) and I have reached the following decision:
I do not want other people to suffer at the hands of two rustic yokels who want to indulge in caste-wars, for my sake. My "understudy", ImpuMozhi had advised me long ago about the dangers of participating in matters pertaining to caste. I was a cad since I did not listen to him then. Now, two hoodlums have proved him right.
As an afterthought, I am extremely ashamed of myself that I have to belch out so much bile in this post, that I have to stoop to the level of a hooligan. I would have never done this had it not been for the above post.
I hereby request the administrators to DELETE this template. I have learnt my lesson. I do not want to waste my manhours, my energy and my money on trying to convince a pair of nincompoops about the importance of neutrality. I have many other useful pursuits on this portal as well as in my personal life.
Ah yes! the two "gentlemen" whom I have abused so much in this post are most welcome to vandalise my user page. And after you have had your fill, I hope to Heaven that never
may our paths cross again. "Thank you" (my last courtesy). Rajat Ghai 07:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mr Ghai is in his true Kshatriya form

message: Well. So, Mr. one-eyed-Jack (SS - pun intended) is not the nitwit that he seems at first glance. Perhaps that is why he did not show everybody the version prior to the one that he is tom-toming as "evidence" about my "faulty scholarship". It was User:Vikramsingh who first changed the category to CRAFTSMEN. I had earlier named it as "Indo-Scythian groups". Vikramsingh was of the view that it was a very speculative term and hence changed it to Craftsmen. Poor chap! he did not know that kamboj "tribals" still exist and two of them were marauding this site and noticed the tag and sounded the shofar.
Also, everybody can have a look at the history page of the template. After, SS and SC (pun unintended) created the great "Surviving Ancient Kshatriya Tribes family", the only groups left in it were Tarkhans, Lohars and Ramgarhias. SS's allegation is that I don't know the derogatory nature of the term "Craftsmen". Well, I do. Because in subsequent versions, I changed it to "Tarkhans and Related Groups." However, in the interluding period, nobody from any of these groups acted as "Vandalists" (that is how SS pronounces the term. The extinct Vandals of Europe must be turning in their unknown graves throughout the continent).
As for his poodle, horse-breeder (oops! Cavalry as per historical facts) who calls me a mental case, well I surely do not expect a common heathen to know the subtleties of the human brain, neuro-science, psychiatry or human psychology (Even I don't. but I surely wan't to, so that I may learn what exactly is wrong with me.
Yes, I said that Kam bhoj and Co. are historical Kshatriya tribes as Calvary (Lord! I am so sorry again. I took the name of a holy site here. May He forgive me as well these who do not know what they are doing), Cavalry said. But I also argued that many other groups claim that status as well. I have repeated this time and again. But here it is once more. If K & Co. must be put in that category, then it would be better to make a nice little cat. by the name of "Kshatriya groups" and represent everybody. After all, we are a democracy right?
About Cal's "evidence" that I am a mental case because I called him and SS as "hoodlums", "hoologans" and "gentlemen" in the same breath, well what can I say. Nag, this not the Gole Bug or Da Vinci that you have to take so much time to unravel it. Perhaps, SS can help you in understanding what I really meant since he's a JG Graduate and a serious researcher.
Another thing. I would really like to make a referral to the SGPC, about SS and have him declared as a tankhaiyya, since he has violated such a cardinal rule of the Panth - non - belief in  the Caste System. But then, anybody who is in the know, has full knowledge about "this historical fact" - that most Sikhs continue to believe in caste. SS and SC' espousal of the "great Kamboj tribe" has shattered the great myth that they do not. Perhaps, SS and SC should visit the talk page of Hinduism and the Sikh Panth and know about how two of their co-religionists are disputing "this historical fact." Proves one thing very clearly, which has been said time and again by "Scholars" (no reference to SS and SC here): Even religion has not been able to break the stranglehold of caste on South Asian society.
And lastly, my vocabulary and my scholarship! Well, I am happy that all this has at least caused SS (Would not say this about SC) to at least pick up a dictionary and leaf through it for- well perhaps the very first time. Natives, do not teach me the Sahib's tongue. I will learn it on my own. To me, Angreji is as dear as the other three Jabaans that I speak - my Maa Boli (Punjabi), Hindi and Urdu. And yes, I surely do not need certificates from anybody about whether I am a "Scholar" or not. Hell! I have never made any claims about "Original Research" (Do not return this argument back to me like the nakalchi baandars that you are.
All the best in your career as "Original Researchers."
Have a nice day (Hah! Aethe main vi SS di thodi ji Rees kad rahe haan).
The mental case - 203.187.198.110 19:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  THESE EXTINCT SPECIES 

message: Yes, I have also carefully gone through series of posts of Rajat Ghai 07:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  DELETEIf someone creates caste and tribes of Punjab and stamps it everywhere,I am afraid what will happen if every state create such templates and stamps on every page,I think there will be more than 10 templates on every caste page,ATLEAST.plz discourage this practice.Holy---+----Warrior 11:25, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with satbir,Others have no point to make or perhaps no knowledge of their subject as is reflected from their comments.There is a lobby in wikipedia who have been accustomed to hijack pages bullying others by simple majority,I think they have caught the wrong person here who were expecting a free ride.I myself have faced many such trials in the past.I wonder why this "Ghai" guy who differed with me on many ocassions never showed his true face.I always tried to know the true face of anonymous vandals on the pages he is describing.Holy---+---Warrior 07:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

text:  Everybody knows who the real Vandal is. And everybody also knows who is well-known for ruining pages related to caste-groups just because they have some personal grudges, biases and prejudices. I never argued with you earlier because I myself never wanted to get into the hassles of caste. I know you are a true "warrior" who has taken it upon himself to take-on "upper-caste villains" like me. But, in this case you are completely wrong. Because you haven't really understood what the whole bickering is about. Trust me, I am not the "Tilak Taraazu aur Talwaar" monster of old. In fact, here I am arguing just for the sake of neutrality. I have only made the simple point that each group should be referred to by their names than by their (assumed or real) Varna status since it is a highly contentious issue. I gave your example because I saw you disputing the status of the castes that I have referred to. So have many others. But anyways, I really do not expect people like you, the two others, Sanjayji, Rajeshji et al. to understand all this. About your saying that I want to hijack the page, well: Ulta Chor Kotwal ko Daante. 
Is your interference here by anycase because of my mentioning yours and Sanjayji's name in the various posts I sent to editors and administrators?
And yes, i have at least the courage to write down my family name (Since you have put it in quotes). People like you (as I have seen from the talk pages) do not even want to reveal that. 
203.187.198.110 20:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanx for admitting you are the vandal(I can read between the lines) on these pages,but whatever I have done,I never do in hiding as you often do.You surely have communicated with me,in the same manner as you are doing now (every sentence bears your very signature) both on wiki and off-wiki.Because you don't have courage to sign your post,or show your true face you are hiding behind a proxy,which you often do.If you are following me for a long time you should have known my family name--I need not shout it-we are known for being unique.Holy---+---Warrior 08:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A Pitiable or Mental Case?????

message: To Shreshth91($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|) ,
I, Rajatjghai, hereby solemnly affirm that I will not engage in another revert war with Satbir Singh or any other editor for that matter until all matters of dispute pertaining to this page are discussed and a common consensus is reached. I also affirm not to violate the "three-revert rule" again. Sincerely. Rajatjghai 06:13, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not going to block. Further damage has been prevented due to protection. Both users seem to have gotten carried away that's all, and true, this is too humourous for punishment.Blnguyen | rant-line 07:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Declaration 

message: Thanks for inviting me here, but I really have no knowledge of these religious or tribal affairs of India. I'm just patrolling some of them for personal attacks as it seems as though some areas are unmoderated...hopefully once there is proper dialog, something fruitful will eventuate. Thanks, Blnguyen | rant-line 07:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment 

message: I don't know if I can possibly contribute much to the discussion but I believe that the template should NOT be deleted.
Unitedroad 08:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: I'm typical Indian Voter

message: There has been heavy IP vandalism again, so I have semi-protected the page.  I'm not doing full-protection because there has been some major user contributors to the template, and I would not want to prevent them from editing the page. However, if you are an IP and you would like to edit the page, either post here, or contact me on my user talk page, and I will place the material in the template (if approved) accordingly. Thanks. Nishkid64 13:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-Protected 

message: Will the administrator please also include Ghakhars in the list .  Gakhars Hindus Sikhs  are found among both Khatri and Rajput Punjabis. As a matter of fact this is also the case with several other Punjabi Castes such as Sayals for example. Contemporary Sayal families from Jallandhar are Khatris .Intothefire 03:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ghakhars

message: ````In jatt article there is no information about Basra jatts.Which is a very important cast of jatts.Kindly include information and description about basra jatts```` —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.128.27.224 (talk) 13:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition required in jatt article