Talk:Dreamcast

message: Just wanted to say that, if anyone ever plans on taking this thing to FAC, there's a big job ahead of them. Back in 2014, I scanned around 200 pages of Dreamcast magazine coverage for Red Phoenix, and it's all still available here. Most of it has not been cited in the article, and I don't think any Dreamcast FA could be considered comprehensive without a careful trawling of this material. Even if most of it is redundant (a distinct possibility), it still has to be double-checked before FAC, in case there are holes in the present article. Plus, I see a lot of weak sources in the article currently (GameSpot and IGN coverage from the 90s, for example) that could be replaced by stronger magazine citations. There's a disproportionate number of online sources in general, given the era in which the Dreamcast was released. All of this is fine for a GA, but, for the future, I wanted to let people know (since Red Phoenix has retired) that this scan cache exists. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:11, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I respectfully disagree about the scope of the undertaking. Dreamcast had a very thorough GA review that lasted a couple of months, during which time it was improved considerably—from looking like this to looking much closer to the current version. In that time, the number of sources in the article more than doubled. Red Phoenix's contributions steadily declined in the middle of the review, leaving Indrian and I to finish up, and before the article was promoted I made a point of checking every single one of your scans. I recall very little that wasn't redundant, although I was quick to add what new material I could, such as this great anecdote from EGM November 1998. It's possible RP and I missed something, but I doubt we missed very much. I am unaware that easily-checked online sources are less reliable than print sources, but I would also point out that I added quite a few Game Informers from the period.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 22:13, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If the scanned stuff has been explored, then that changes things. (I'm not sure that RP read most of it himself, so you're likely the only one who's gone through it all.) However, no matter how easy they are to check, GameSpot and IGN weren't very strong sources in the 90s. I've seen that fact sink FACs in the past, actually. And an over-reliance on Internet sources for a subject that was largely pre-Internet can be a problem. Something to keep in mind, at the very least. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:33, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing comment 

message: Total Sales is suspect. All references to 10.6 million sold should be changed to 9.13 million sold
The multiple references to 10.6 million console sales are unsubstantiated and are not sourced from a verifiable resource. Actual verifiable resources from Sega shows that only 9.13 million units were produced and shipped.
in their 2001 Anual Report it's stated "for respective totals of 8.20 million units" with the remaining 930,000 units accounted for in their Revision later that year "with domestic sales of 130,000 units and U.S. sales of 530,000 units for the first half.- Consequently, at the end of the half, Dreamcast inventories totaled 40,000 units domestically and 230,000 units for the United States, and we anticipate being able to sell all remaining units by the holiday season as initially planned." Jcgarmatz (talk) 01:52, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2015 

message: 58.70.199.213 (talk) 09:59, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The current source, http://web.archive.org/web/20080905175406/http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/111822/the-10-worst-selling-consoles-of-all-time/ - is considered a reliable source per WP:VG/S, and is widely correlated by other sources. Sergecross73 msg me 11:08, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2015 

message: However, if the editors are refusing to check actual facts what is the point of Wikipedia?
How isa  blog an accurate source over the manufacturer as a source? Seems both childish and pathetic. 
Add to the fact we have it clearly stated on the Japanese Wiki the Japanese company made 9.13 million units this whole 10.6 million figure is now nothing more that a bad joke. 
The editors are abusing power here instead of looking at facts.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.70.199.213 (talk) 11:55, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: As I noted in your second section below, none of the edit warring IPs were changing the article to 9.13 million or quoting a source. The reverts were for disruptive edits changing to an unsourced 6.4 million, many of the edits resulting in citation/template errors. -- ferret (talk) 14:17, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  I know this is not a forum  

message: Hi guys. Sorry to post here, as it's a little off-topic, but no one has responded to my post on the Shenmue talk page. I've been doing a lot of work on the various Shenmue articles, but try as I might I can't find a reliable source anywhere stating the Japanese and European release dates for Shenmue 1. Does anyone know where I could find these? Popcornduff (talk) 04:48, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Shenmue release date?

message: https://www.segasammy.co.jp/japanese/ir/library/pdf/printing_archive/2001/sega/sega_annual_tuuki_2001.pdf
Here is the link to the official sales report form SEGA 2001, can someone correct the sales in the article?.
: It's been discussed extensively above, you may want to read through that first... Sergecross73 msg me 19:04, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: TL;DR? 9.13 million is Sega's official number. 8.2 million is from an earlier financial report covering the time period through March 31, 2001. Sega still had a fairly significant (relative to the total number of units manufactured) amount of unsold Dreamcast inventory that was subsequently cleared out at heavily discounted prices (although, apparently not as much unsold inventory as was widely believed by journalists at the time).TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 19:08, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  According to Sega Financial reports, Dreamcast sold 8.20 Million, not 10.6 or 9.13. 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Dreamcast. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add  after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There are active homebrew communities even today, and they are continuing to write software for the console.  Some people feel as though the console never died.  Would it be appropriate to add this to the article? Ryanalexmartin (talk) 00:41, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not without coverage in reliable sources. -- ferret (talk) 01:41, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homebrewing community for the Dreamcast (KallistiOS) 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Why is there no mention of the 3 different colours used for the logo on different regions machines?Aluminium Colours (talk) 23:09, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not necessarily against it, but it is rather unimportant. It's the same exact logo with a few color variations. Sergecross73 msg me 23:47, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe not important. But the fact that it has 3 different colours and the article doesn't even mention it. Someone curious would probably come to this article to find out why, only to find nothing.Aluminium Colours (talk) 10:18, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think people generally go to Google for minor trivial whims like that, not sift through massive encyclopedia articles for a sentence or two on it. Sergecross73 msg me 19:49, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think mentioning that Sega changed the logo color from orange to blue for marketing reasons in the west is probably notable, though? Popcornduff (talk) 09:56, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to add a sentence on it, sure. It doesn't strike me as that important, but it's not wrong. So as long as we're not proposing a "Marketing controversy" subsection with a whole paragraph about it, I'm fine with it. (I'm not suggesting you'd do that...but I've seen others do it. Sergecross73 msg me 12:48, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logo variations 

message: Sega worked with Microsoft (Xbox) to create the Dreamcast. - TB57
:I'm pretty sure the degree to which that is true, is already mentioned in the article. Sergecross73 msg me 00:27, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Helping 

message: The below little article in Next Generation seems to only have info that's already well-sourced in the WP article, but I'm not well-versed in Dreamcast history, so I'm a bit worried I may have overlooked something. If anyone wants to give it a look...--Martin IIIa (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 

message: @Sergecross73
ok, but the legacy of Dreamcast is special, communities mention is relevant.
and what you mean with "Major regions only"? Australia is not a "major region", Russian Federation is much bigger and has one of the biggest video gaming markets in the world which is fast growing. sometimes it seems like Wikipedia is stucked in the past. but ok your choice. i believe this choice is not right --85.212.86.28 (talk) 03:57, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: When it comes to "major regions", what Sergecross73 is referring to is what has been covered in rigor in reliable sources.  Reliable sources usually don't cover Russia as a region.  They do usually talk about Japan, North America, and either Europe or the entirety of PAL territories.  Australia is more relatively frequent as well.  This has to do with making sure we give due weight and not just list a bunch of statistics; that's not what Wikipedia is.  Usually numbers for other regions are only mentioned when that region has a special reason to be and is covered with rigor in reliable sources, such as how Brazil is covered in Master System because the console has survived so long there and has significant coverage.  Hope that helps!  Red Phoenix talk 11:31, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this is correct. The guidelines say to generally just use a few major regions in release. It’s a matter of bloat too - without any limit, every passerby adds another country on and before you know it, there’s a laundry list of 30 countries on there, all documenting the trivial variants of coming out on a different day of the week or whatever. And unless major third party websites (Gamespot, IGN, Eurogamer, etc) write about these fansites/fanbases/communities/etc, they fall outside the scope of what Wikipedia covers. Sergecross73 msg me 15:05, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  @Sergecross73 

message: I appreciate the edits made by , but I'm afraid I have to revert such edits in good faith. Reasons are as follows:
* The lead section contains information that is not included elsewhere in the article. Any new information should be placed in the article's body under appropriate sections instead.
* Some sources that back such information may not be reliable (i.e. content from self-published sources or websites with user-generated content).
If you feel that the information should be included in the article, please feel free to discuss. Thanks! – Hounder4 10:41, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Hounders removal. Wikipedia needs to be written by what reliable sources say, and these additions were either unsourced or were added using unreliable sources. And you’re straight up not going to find the sourcing to call the Mega Drive Mini Segas “return to the console market”. That’s simply not how the industry has described it. Anyways, until you understand how to identify usable sources, I recommend seeing WP:VG/S for lists of sources generally deemed usable. Sergecross73 msg me 13:47, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: I wanted to get your attention because of my past history with this article - reviews for it and Sega Saturn were not my finest hours as an editor, but I digress.  I've been thinking long and hard about this, and with as well-written and well-referenced as this article is, plus six years of new sources that are bound to have been written (we just passed 20 years since the launch in 2019), I'd love to try and take this up to FA status.  If it weren't for the fact that I'm really getting to this too late, I'd say March 2021 would have been a good time to get it on the main page for 20 years since its cancellation and the death of Sega as a hardware maker.  But, I don't know even if I had all the time in the world that I could get it through FAC by then.  Regardless, at least with an FA star, at the right time it could be the featured article of the day when it's appropriate.
The reason I'm pinging both of you is this: as much as I did do a lot to this article, I know most of the prose and referencing now is not my work; it's yours.  WP:OWN aside, I don't want to step on anyone's toes if I start messing with things or decide to work on this further without consulting with those really behind this article first.  It's also an FAC requirement, though I don't want to send it to FAC as-is. I guess I'd like to know two things:
1. Is everyone okay if I start working on this again and take it to FAC when it's ready?  It may be a few months; I'm starting a new job this week.
2. Does anyone want to collaborate?  I'm all for it, but I will understand if I'm going it alone.
You guys did a really great job with this article, much better than I was capable of in 2014.  I'd love to see it stand among Wikipedia's best.  Red Phoenix talk 21:29, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: As usual, I'd be happy to do copyediting sweeps if others do the research. I'm too lazy for the research. Popcornfud (talk) 21:36, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm always happy to answer any questions about text that I contributed, but beyond that I have nothing particularly new to say about this topic. I wish you (and the article) the best.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 00:56, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, guys, I appreciate the encouragement to proceed.  Right now I'm still forming a plan on where it needs work, and it may take a while before I have it ready for a FAC.  Hopefully this'll add well to the Sega console FA's when all is said and done.  Red Phoenix talk 01:47, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  For that little bronze star... 

message: According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NV1 and other sources around the web nvidia also worked with sega on providing the gpu for the dreamcast. maybe this should be incorporated into this article?
Here's an archived article on the NV2 and Sega involvement.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060919170554/https://firingsquad.com/features/nv2/default.asp
  Djmips (talk) 20:46, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nvidia involvement? 

message: The article uses a logo sourced from a dead link to a Fandom logo wiki. The color also differs distinctly from the one on the Sega website. First and foremost, the current logo should have a better source to prevent citogenesis. 
In fact, Wikipedia has three versions of the SEGA logo uploaded: . These all appear to be reproductions of the logo from the Dreamcast boot screen, and while there is evidence for the PAL blue logo, neither the red or light orange seem to be accurate. It looks like the logo should be a reddish orange color, as appears on the Sega website linked above and the boot screen of the console. Unless a primary source for these red and light orange logos can be found, I am concerned that citogenesis has already taken place as these seem to be the commonly used Dreamcast logos online. DMonitor (talk) 06:11, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed that a better source for the image should be used, at the very minimum.  On the color differences, perhaps images in old gaming magazines can help us out here? Red Phoenix talk 13:58, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

text: This is probably worth pinging @Evan-Amos about, as I know he's said that capturing some colors on consoles has been difficult at times. He's photographed this stuff, so while that may not work for us sourcing wise, can perhaps give us a first hand opinion on what we should be looking for. -- ferret (talk) 14:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy of Dreamcast Logo?