Talk:Etiquette in Europe

message: Check the article for vandalism 91.153.228.113 (talk) 22:14, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Unter the heading Multiculturalism, I found the following sentence; 
"...to badger a Hindu to accept food that violates her dietary laws is a faux pas that would offend many Europeans (and educated people elsewhere) regardless of their own denominational backgrounds.
Does this imply that Europeans are the standard by which all "educated" people elsewhere are measured? This statement smacks of ethnocentrism. I suggest it should be revised.
On a side note, my experience as an African in Europe are to the contrary. I often get "badgered", more so than I would elsewhere. While I accept this, and view it more as natural interest or curiosity, it can lead to some tense moments, particularly when dealing with some people.
::It's a rather poorly written subsection in general, I think. Why is the Hindu in the example female? Is it just to prove that the writer is not a sexist? I think so.
::It is misleading, at best, since it implies that badgering a male Hindu to eat beef is in some way acceptable, at least according to these (slightly spurious) laws of etiquette.Malcolm Starkey 22:39, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is important but two-sided for Europeans to insist foriegn born people who wish to become citizens of their countries to be integrated, assimilated and to abide by their sociocultural rules, then again the hosts do not want to offend, hurt feelings and deprive the newcomers of their cultural or religious rights. Also the risk of scapegoating immigrants for social, political and economic problems is not totally forbidden, since there are far-right wing political groups known to gain power and seats by inflaming such feelings by accusatory nativist rhetoric. But any newcomer who immigrates to another nation (this is also true in the USA) to follow the country's rules, even though in Islam and Eastern cultures, and third world countries' sociocultural rules are gender-stratified, and there, women are often placed in secondary ranks or roles in their families and communities. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 22:48, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multiculturalism 

message: I believe somebody should correct the Scandinavian chapter for the simple reason that Finland is included in it. I am not an expert, so I will let somebody else doing it.
Turkuamk 18:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes indeed, this section should be titled The Nordic countries; nonetheless this section is the appropriate one for Finland because for the most part the Finnish etiquette (and culture) is the same as the Swedish one. The T-V distinction is observed slightly more often in Finland than in Sweden but other than that I can't recall any major differences (other than the majority language of course) between the two countries. I was born to Finnish immigrants in Sweden and moved to Finland when I was 10, so I should know. --jibun≈παντα ρει≈ (keskustele!) 01:55, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Alright, here's my version of the section which prefers the phrase Nordic countries instead of Scandinavia when possible. You can see the changes here. If no-one opposes, I'm going to deploy the changes into the article. Improvements solicited. --jibun≈παντα ρει≈ (keskustele!) 03:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scandinavia 

message: For foreigners it is not understandable, but in Italy the stereotype of a Sardinian is a shepherd, ignorant, talking in a very bad Italian. For its history (look at the articles), language and traditions were downplayed, or prohibited. The long-lasting isolation was a factor to these stereotypes, and played a makor role in our language, which began to be contaminated by Italian just in the late 60s. 
We might take a joke on our shepherd heritage laughing, but it may put you in a very bad position. As for our language, it is a language, not a dialect, and we are very proud of it, so again jokes may be accepted, may be not. - signed by anon IP
: Sardinians and Corsicans (they dealt with the same social stigma by the continental French) alike don't like ethnic jokes, slurs and stereotypes that depict their own people as inferior, backwards or stupid. This is also illegal in many European countries to publically ignite racial or ethnic discourse over the air waves, or in a public setting. To make fun of Sardinian, Corsican or southern Italian peoples (esp. Sicilians are mafia, violent or half-African, all popularly muttered in the north) is the same level of offensiveness like one to make comments and racial insults towards African-Americans, Jewish people or the Romanies (i.e Gypsies) which will land you in legalities. +71.102.11.193 (talk) 22:40, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sardinia 

message: I deleted that little warning to Americans about the faux pas of bring up American Foreign Policy.It has no place here.
At least I THINK I deleted it.Still new here.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Callisto1 (talk • contribs) 09:42, 25 May 2007
:An IP address has deleted the section several times today without leaving an explanation in the edit summary, so the deletion ends up being reverted as vandalism. You should make sure to leave an edit summary when you make any edit, but especially for deletions of material.—Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 10:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I got it :D Ryratt  —Preceding comment was added at 15:53, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Americans need to be polite and respectful to the traditions of European countries' decisions in political, religious, moral or cultural, and historical mechinations. The US has been a friend and foe, and arrogant or ignorant about the countries' feelings about such issues they learn to live with. In France, don't bring up both American, French or any countries' politics and cultural differences. The French tend to be more secular, socialistic and homogeneous (or desire to preserve tradition), and have suffered more under the Nazi occupation, post-colonial shock and the immigrants from former French colonies they have, and finally, the French Revolution shouldn't be really discussed except they will remind an American they shared the same woes in the 18th century under an abusive oppressive king like us. Also the older generations who lived in the two world wars are very thankful for the US army liberated the country, but divided over the US' installment of Charles De Gaulle into presidency and many French came to think Communism isn't immoral or sinister. The French are sensitive towards race or ethnicity, due to the country's integration dogma of anyone born on French soil is a Frenchmen, no matter what race, color, language, religion and neighboring nationality the person is...and they disliked the US' history of race relations towards African-Americans and Native Americans, even compare it rightfully to anti-Semitism and xenophobia the French admit they long struggled with. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 22:35, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  American Section 

message: These articles should be expanded into separate articles. There is one for the Dutch already, so why not have one for the United Kingdom, Germany, and France as well? It would be interesting to learn more about their unique customs.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Klichka (talk • contribs) 19:36, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion 

message: While in Croatia, you can not hold up the thumb, index, and middle finger to indicate the number 3. It's deeply upsetting. Apparently it goes back to the Balkan war. 
Serbs, who are generally Orthodox Christians, wave their hand in this gesture during various religious ceremonies to signal a cross, much in the same way Catholics signal a cross. 
The three fingers was displayed by Serbs during the Balkan war to symbolise victory. After the war, it was used to antagonise Croatian's, particularly during sporting events.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.222.6.200 (talk) 23:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is unfortunate for Serbs, Croats and former Yugoslavs to share a common ethnic origin, linguistics and region they long lived in close to each other, except they are two peoples and cultures which have clashed often violently in their history. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 22:50, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Croatia: the three fingers. 

message: To Irish people, you are only Irish if you grew-up or were born in Ireland
This sounds a bit strange and rather subjective. It would mean that James Connolly, Erskine Hamilton Childers, Robert Erskine Childers and loads more would not be allowed to call themselves Irish? LOL, talk about POV. Hereitisthen (talk) 20:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's just from wannabe Irish or "Plastic Paddy"s abused the "right-of-return" custom of the Irish diaspora when they travelled in or moved into Ireland to reconnect with their ethnic Irish roots. I'm unsure about the Irish law on accepting overseas Irish into the Irish society, like for anyone born to Irish-born parents in another country (esp. that's the case in the US or the UK like Northern Ireland or England) should be considered Irish to some extent. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 22:30, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ireland

message: I verified a part about tipping in Spain and found it was noted incorrectly in the article. It said that tipping was common in Spain, and it is not. I referenced a source that I feel is reliable. Having traveled to Spain, I know that the material is correct. Ccid122907 (talk) 03:16, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: One important rule of etiquette is the Spanish do not like to admit they have Arab or Moorish ancestors, even there is a small amount of truth in the historic pretext of the Islamic period of much of the Iberian peninsula from 711 AD to about 1500 when the expulsion of the last Muslims from Spain occurred in Granada would stir emotional feelings in Morocco & North Africa. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 23:57, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spain

message: In Serbia, leaving a glass full when one is done drinking is a traditional way to invite wealth and prosperity into a home.
Can somebody attest to this actually being true for where they live? I grew up in Vojvodina and if I learned one thing about leaving anything in your glass when you're done drinking it's that it invites bad luck for your host - quite the opposite of what is stated here.
--87.116.138.177 (talk) 23:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Serbia

message: the fact that public masturbation is a breech of etiquette is non-encyclopedic This was reverted by User:Boston. What do you think, is it? The function of etiquette is precisely to control "primitive behavior". These things are, surprisingly, not obvious. When comparing to ancient Rome, there has been a change of perceptions with respect to public sex and nudity. There is a history to this and it has to be covered somewhere. --Vuo (talk) 23:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What is that to-and-fro editing? I put back the section on exposure, since it seems useful. The half-sentence about masturbation really doesn't seem encyclopaedic in this context, because it doesn't actually provide useful information to the reader. If you want to talk about the history of etiquette, please make a section for it and use it as an example. I also put the fact tag... Averell (talk) 18:23, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obviousness? 

message: I've reverted the revert of User:Colonel Warden to the Jan, 1st version. While restoring the intro was fine (and I kept that part), it also restored a few things that were justly deleted. Those things were empty sections and trivia that was sourced from a 1912 book. These things are neither relevant to this article, nor are they even part of contemporary etiquette. Averell (talk) 17:26, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverted restore 

message: People seem to use a lot of sources from the beginning of the 20th century, and even earlier. I don't know why, but while they're good to explain the history of etiquette, they shouldn't be used for statements about contemporary etiquette. Etiquette isn't a static thing, and many customs from earlier times seem strange today. Averell (talk) 18:12, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But new laws, customs and etiquette develops in the 20th and 21st century. For example, is the 1923 Turkish law that made it a crime to insult "Turkishness" like to bring up the Armenian massacres by Ottoman Turkish troops during WWI is a strong taboo and the Turkish government officially denies or has a different version of the historical events that taken place. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 00:24, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical sources 

message: wearing white running shoes as an adult as your regular shoes is also considered inappropriate in europe, unless you are either a child or a rapper. Markthemac (talk) 01:14, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  wearing white running shoes 

message: Minor or major faux-pas when one is in the dinner table in France is hands under the table (to place them on your lap), to switch the fork to your left hand (the continental style to handle tableware), and note french fried potatoes are eaten with tiny forks (this is seriously done) and refreshments are drunk from the glass only (important is to finish the entire alcoholic liquor drink, not waste abit to the drain). American tourists have admittedly failed to observe those customs in France, but the French may have to be tolerant of mistakes by foreigners or travellers, but the French insist on "out of towners" to follow the tip "When in Rome..." instead of "except Americans".  + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 22:27, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  French table manners 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Etiquette in Europe. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070527233457/http://www.dhl-usa.com:80/usgov/isr/culture/1,2122,,00.html to http://www.dhl-usa.com/usgov/isr/culture/1,2122,,00.html
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 11:18, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm a 40 year old American and about 96% of this (made up percentage) is obvious to me, even stateside.  The article should probably be expanded, or just folded into something else about etiquette?  just a thought.
Mercster (talk) 11:35, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seems fairly obvious stuff...