Talk:Catherine Ashton

message: I think the German article has been deleted...? doktorb wordsdeeds 19:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  .de wikilink 

message: "Ashton studied a broad degree in economics... graduating with a BSc in sociology in 1977".  What on earth does this mean?  A degree in sociology is a degree in sociology, a degree in economics is a degree in economics..... Nandt1 (talk) 12:27, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Education requires clarification

message: Nothing is said in this article about her experience before being appointed to the Lords. – Kaihsu (talk) 11:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: She needed to belong to the same party as the PM, but also/maybe be disliked by him. Have it done before the Tories even get it, the fact that they have a favourite enemy. In she goes to the House of Lords, and none of us are any the wiser. Most importantly the Tories. In she goes to the EU, and only the Tories are even more clueless.(83.108.30.141 (talk) 20:53, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

text: The text is in desperate need of revision, as she most certainly did not found the Windsor Fellowship. That creation of Prince Phillip's was in existence long before she graduated: Prince Charles undertook a personalised advanced introduction to the whole of what makes Britain in the eight months between Graduation in June 1970 and joining the Royal Navy in March 1971, arranged through that body. My father, Phillip's frontline contact with the Mechanical Engineering profession, had him under his wing visiting factories and heaven only knows what for a fortnight. As I see there is no meme for it, I should also warn you that there is another Windsor Fellowship of St George: Prince Phillip's was entirely unofficial, and was designed to allow the Queen to be able to access every part of her Monarchy without having to pass it through the stultifying hand of the Palace Staff, to check for herself the actions of her Ministers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.205.238.195 (talk) 21:28, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Experience before appointment to the Lords? 

message: This sentance:
It is a prominent aspect of Cathy Ashton's political career that she has been appointed to several senior ministerial appointments in the UK and EU governments, without ever actually being elected to to any public office.   
is original research (specifically synthesis); the source does not reach the conclusion that she has been appointed without ever being elected. it should be removed. ninety:one 20:35, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nonsense. It's a fact.
I disagree.  It is a fact, and I have tried to give references to support it (as you previously asked for).  Daniel Hannan's cited article states "she was appointed to the House of Lords without ever having faced the voters", and the cited biography at dca.gov.uk confirms this, if only by omission.  Admittedly, Hannan's article is only a blog, but he is an MEP writing in his professional capacity, so this should count as a reliable source.  This is the same article that criticises Ashton's lack of trade experience, and I meant it to serve the purpose of supporting both points at once, but subsequent edits to the text have detached it from the "unelected" point.
I do agree that there is room for debate about how "significant" her unelected status is; so we could perhaps compromise with wording such as:
"During Cathy Ashton's political career she has been appointed to several senior ministerial appointments in the UK and EU governments, without ever actually being elected to to any public office."
79.79.71.5 (talk) 10:52, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

text: You are missing the point. Most members of the House of Lords are not ministers. Many have been elected to office in the past. This woman has had an entirely non-democratic career, no electorate has ever been given the chance to reject her, and now she is supposedly the second most important person in a wannabe superstate which claims to be a democracy! Luwilt (talk) 01:32, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hysterical nonsense.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.97.111 (talk) 19:20, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

text: This is a "when did you stop beating your wife"-style red herring. None of the Commissioners are directly elected: this is by policy of the member states, which don't want to see the Commission getting ideas above its stationthat it is a secretariat writ large.  The Commissions democratic mandate comes from the fact that its members are nominated by their respective national governments: the President of the Commission and the High Representative are subject to further democratic control in that they are chosen by the elected heads of government (in France, of state).  UKIP are trying to make a big song and dance about this but would be the first to the barricades if there were any suggestion of an elected European Executive. [As an aside, many if not most of the cabinet of the President of the USA have never faced the ballot box. Nobody questions their legitimacy]. --Red King (talk) 23:15, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unelected status 

message: According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union#Languages, "Besides the 23 official languages, there are about 150 regional and minority languages, spoken by up to 50 million people." How many of these does the Foreign Minister master?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.214.17.105 (talk) 08:40, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Languages 

message: She must be drunk herself by now. Could anyone put some reasoning in here? After all, this is an encyclopediahaha. Linkfix democraty needed. -DePiep (talk) 03:06, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[LoL]]: Linkfix to [[democraty]] needed by now 

message: Whatever your view about the article title, please discuss it here rather than engage in a disruptive page-move war.  I have listed this article at WP:RFPP, requesting move-protection, until this is sorted out.  --RFBailey (talk) 07:12, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Stop the back-and-forth moves

message: Please add the following: 76.192.40.247 (talk) 03:59, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links request 

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests March 2012 
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thread_title: File:Ashton2.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: In your article on her you quote her speech regarding Gaza and Toulouse in March 2012, and the criticism she attracted. However, much of the criticism was based on an inaccurate report of her speech. She specifically included in her speech reference to Sderot (an Israeli town that suffered a rocket attack); this important balancing item was wrongly omitted from the initial report - and, indeed, in your own quotation (though it is included in the test of her speech in your reference no. 39).
Subsequently, articles in both the Israeli and UK press made clear that the "row" over her speech had been stirred up by people relying on the original misquotation. At the very least, your article should reflect this point: as it stands it presents a biased and - in its distorted quotation - inaccurate account of what happened. My wife was NOT presenting a moral equivalence between Gaza and Toulouse (as her detractors tried to claim, and which you report) but drawing attention to the way children in all parts of the world could be innocent victims of violence (which perspective you do not report).
Could you kindly put this right?
Thank you
Peter Kellner
Peter Kellner (talk) 11:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have updated the paragraph to include the subsequent EU transcript amendment.Best Wishes Ankh.Morpork 12:22, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've set this to 'unanswered', as I think more tweaking can be done to be the paragraph to make it neutral. The Cavalry (Message me) 11:44, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've set it back to answered. If the requester wants more change, he can reopen it. Others are free to make changes without using the edit request template. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 14:56, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not really acceptable on a BLP. We have to ensure that these things are right all the time, not simply "wait until they complain again". I've fixed it myself. The Cavalry (Message me) 15:34, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

text: No weight should be given. The reference to him being her husband should be removed. 78.149.214.161 (talk) 13:22, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 15 April 2012 

message: I added the warning that "this article lends undue weight to certain ideas, incidents, controversies or matters" because the article overwhelmingly focuses on criticism of her tenure as High Representative. Furthermore, the responses to criticisms of her appointment are from her "friends," implying a lack of neutrality. In order to be neutral/balanced, the article should include equal information regarding her accomplishments (not just a list of her duties) and the criticism section should have more neutral responses. I don't have enough knowledge on the subject to make these changes- could someone else do that?
Nadhika99 (talk) 15:13, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The answer to that, Nadhika99, is to search out some Reliable Sources and to make the changes yourself. You can't expect other people to jump at your suggestion. Deleting your tag from the article. GeorgeLouis (talk) 07:26, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added to references to the Interveiew with Ashton in today's Observer. There is more there that could be added to this article for balance. Vernon White . . . Talk  20:12, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Just for the record, when an article suffers as egregiously from Undue Weight as this one has -- at least until recently -- done, it strikes me as somewhat questionable just to delete the tag and tell the complainant to fix it himself or herself (particularly when they have been candid enough to register a lack of knowledge in the relevant field).  If "you cannot expect other people to jump at your suggestion", why do we have the Undue Weight tag at all? Nandt1 (talk) 02:24, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undue weight warning 

message: I'm surprised that there is little mention of Ashton's role in this historical series of talks , and no mention of the big breakthrough that has recently happened. Here's an example of a news report emphasizing her key role in making the breakthrough happen : . I would add details myself but unfortunately this page is locked to editing by unregistered users. Hopefully such additions would help address this article's balance/undue weight problems further (see above) too 76.217.24.133 (talk) 04:12, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added a paragraph drawing on the Financial Times article about CA's role in the negotiations.  Nandt1 (talk) 22:18, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs coverage of Ashton's key role in Iran talks breakthrough

message: I've made a factual correction to this entry's coverage of the controversy over Ashton's speech referring to the attack on Jewish children in Toulouse.  The text used to state that Ashton was criticized by "several newspapers".  But after following the footnotes, it was clear that the FT was not itself editorializing against Ashton, but merely reporting the criticism coming from Israeli politicians.  In the case of the Jerusalem Post, I followed the link provided and found a reference to Ashton only in the headline (quoted selectively in the Wikipedia footnote, by the way) -- there was no mention of Ashton in the main body of the article.  I have therefore corrected the entry to clarify that the criticism referred to came from the politicians rather than the press.  Nandt1 (talk) 13:14, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Correcting account of Toulouse incident

message: Until just now, this article carried a report that a French journalist had criticized Ashton for (allegedly) being unable to speak any foreign languages.  I have now cut this reference because the claim is itself directly contradicted by the account in The Guardian on Ashton's appointment (cited in the main text):
When her name emerged on Thursday night, the Élysée Palace telephoned senior European commission officials to check that she speaks "the language of Molière".  A positive response was sent back to Paris, allowing her to clear the final hurdle. Nandt1 (talk) 15:07, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Another misleading critique?

message: One of the more graphic and personal of the attacks on Ashton's appointment inserted by previous editors comes from one Rod Liddle, currently with The Spectator magazine. An earlier editor had added that Liddle was previously with the BBC, perhaps (?) with a view to enhancing Liddle's standing.  The problem with the BBC reference is that Liddle was in fact required to resign from the Corporation.  I thought of qualifying the BBC reference by pointing this out, but it comes across as if I am trying make an ad hominem attack.  I therefore thought that, on balance, it is better just to drop the BBC reference -- we do not after all normally feel obliged to identify journalists by their previous affiliations.
Incidentally, anyone who is unaware of how problematic a "witness for the prosecution" Mr. Liddle is with regards to any woman in public life might wish to consult his biography elsewhere on this encyclopedia. I am not easily shocked, but the less one says about Mr. Liddle's history, the kinder one is to him. Nandt1 (talk) 10:47, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There does seem to have been a herd mentality when she was appointed which the page refelcted from people who had not thought through what actual qualities she might be able to bring to the job. Of course as the first person to hold the post we don't have any comparisons but overall she has been successful and won over some of her critics. I am thinking of putting this in from Peter Oborne where he says 'Well, let’s admit we were all completely wrong. It is now obvious that Catherine Ashton has been a success. In her unobtrusive but determined way, she can boast real achievement. Last year a peace deal was struck between Serbia and Kosovo. Nobody had thought it possible. It was a massive step towards healing ancient hatreds and building economic prosperity. It was brokered by Baroness Ashton."
So +1 to Nandt1's suggestion. YellowFratello (talk) 21:21, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That quotation is a revealing one that I had not seen. Nandt1 (talk) 23:20, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid I liked it so much I stole it from you and put it into the article.  But the credit is all yours! Nandt1 (talk) 13:43, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Trying to avoid appearance of ad hominem attack on Rod Liddle

message: The discussion here of the questions raised about CND and whether it did or did not receive Soviet funding (particularly during CA's tenure) had been edited at some stage to highlight the statement that CA's office "refused to discuss CND's funding in detail".  Camouflaged by that stage was the fact (discussed in earlier versions of the article) that Ashton had herself in fact been questioned on these matters by MEPs.  I've dug back into the archives with a view to recapturing what  she (and her spokesman) actually said at the time, which sounds reasonably categorical.  I am no expert on CND, and I fear that this may be one of those subjects -- as with the JFK assassination -- that one can never quite put to bed, because as soon as you deal with one version of the story, another one pops up.   I imagine someone could write an entire article on the larger CND-Moscow story.  My own feeling is that this is not the place. Just how much discussion of this aspect here is "enough" is, however, obviously an issue that reasonable people could potentially disagree about..... Nandt1 (talk) 04:18, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: CND finances

message: On Ashton's bias against Israel.  It should be mentioned that her husband has business interests with Israel's enemies. http://www.rightsmonitoring.org/israel-here-is-the-reason-for-the-anti-israeli-line-of-catherine-ashton-this-is-a-conflict-of-interests/74.104.159.130 (talk) 13:55, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The source cited looks as if it could be rather biased. This accusation has not been made on her husband's WP page, where it may be more effectively challenged or verified. Vernon White . . . Talk  23:45, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm.  That would be Ashton's "alleged" bias against Israel, I think.  I for one don't see it in the record so far produced. Nandt1 (talk) 17:47, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Conflict of Interest 

message: it ought to be noted that Ashton is head of the European Union Military Staff 69.171.101.3 (talk) 01:09, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sam Sailor Sing 08:33, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sam Sailor Sing 08:35, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:   Not done: If you wish to request that a page is unprotected please apply at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection - Arjayay (talk) 08:37, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Head of European Union Military Staff

message: It has become clear recently that, as a subset of its propaganda activities over Ukraine, the Kremlin has decided to launch a campaign, using assets including but not limited to Pravda and the RT broadcasting system, to blacken the name of Catherine Ashton, who has been one of the leading European voices speaking up for the former opposition forces in Kiev.
I have no way of knowing the relationship -- if any -- of contributor Sceptic1954 to the Kremlin.  Nor that of IP 69 60 247 253, brand new on WP, which echoes Skeptic's every comment in a manner that looks suspiciously like sock puppetry (and yes, I did already know the IP located to Canada -- so what?).  From initially focusing on retailing Kremlin charges -- some keenly contested -- in the Ukraine section and the lede, these two have suddenly gone wild with ripping this article more generally to pieces under the pretext of neutrality issues.
Rather than just reverting, I would like at this stage to request a review of the recent editing of this article, which strikes this user as abusive and inspired (at least) by a coordinated state-driven propaganda campaign, aimed inter alia at the subject of this article. Nandt1 (talk) 13:43, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the previous phrasing of the lede had survived for some time without anyone else finding it POV.  One option would be to just restore it as it was -- maybe after I removed the mention of effectiveness and replaced it by a reference to "work" and without any material on Ukraine.  Alternatively, I had edited the addition on Ukraine to try to make it NPOV.  I could myself live with either of these alternatives.... Nandt1 (talk) 16:37, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I'm not the only one. And of course there are now people coming to the article because of her involvement in the Ukraine who may cast a more critical eye on things.  For the record, just so you've a better idea where I'm coming from, I think she may have been brilliant as a mediator in Kossovo and Iran, but the very qualities which made her a good mediator were disadvantages in Ukraine where she effectively was on one side in a conflict.  So that's a personal position which may be behind my selection of 'facts'.  I don't want to give Ukraine undue weight but I think you can argue that through her actions she has helped to bring about the current crisis.  Sceptic1954 (talk) 16:48, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: We are, of course, all entitled to our own point of view. The more practical issue is whether we can, in spite of our differences, agree on language for the lede. I have put two options on the table...... Nandt1 (talk) 17:11, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: As a matter of editing etiquette, could I please encourage you to add substantive new comments sequentially.  I now see that you have been inserting substantial additions into the middle of your own earlier comments on this page.  This, of course, makes it difficult for later readers to follow the discussion as it actually unfolded and know what each editor was responding to. Nandt1 (talk) 17:22, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought I merely corrected an error.  Must be addled. Sorry.  I just looked at the wiki entry for David Cameron.  There's nothing in the lead beyond his accession to office. However the Barack Obama lead has a lot more.  Sceptic1954 (talk) 17:29, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

text: FYI, the most recent entries in the discussion on this article involving Sceptic1954 and me are located at the end of the section on Balance immediately above this present section. Nandt1 (talk) 22:14, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Reporting Abusive Editing Here

message: The Polish Foreign Minister's wife maintains that the eavesdropping occurred while both parties were on land lines.telegraph.co.uk: "Russia’s information warriors are on the march – we must respond" (Applebaum) 7 Mar 2014
Thanks for your help. 69.60.247.253 (talk) 12:49, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  add details on conversation with Paet 

message: I wonder how many of the edits come from IP addresses located in Brussels and Strasbourg? Maybe this page should be locked.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.254.158.84 (talk) 10:34, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias 

message: Would be good to know when Yanukovych resigned as president, as stated in an article about madam Ashton? We all know that Yanukovich should run from Ukraine to save his family and himself from armed insurgents, but I never heard or read about his resignition.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doubt it now (talk • contribs) 22:47, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is about one phrase 

message: As I offered to do a little earlier (see above),  I have now deleted a couple of paragraphs of laudatory material from the Assessments section in the interests of  balance.  I would like to suggest that we now revisit the neutrality tag on this section.  If anyone believes this tag still needs to be retained, let's see some discussion of specific proposals -- otherwise, I think it can go.  Nandt1 (talk) 15:45, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: In an exchange at his/her User Talk page, user Sceptic1954, who originally placed this tag, agreed to its removal.  With his/her authorization, I will now take care of this. Nandt1 (talk) 10:37, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Reopening issue of Neutrality Tag for Assessments section

message: "Following the resignation of President Yanukovitch.." - this wording grossly contradicts the facts and makes the article biased, unobjective and not truthful. The passage should be replaced with:  "Following the ouster of President Yanukovitch..  93.154.228.2 (talk) 13:43, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. —  (t • e • c) 16:41, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2014 

message: Before the section "==Titles and styles==" there's a "" which should be changed to . 195.75.72.179 (talk) 12:00, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  edit request 

message: Just had a look at this page in view of the Iran negotiations finally (?) concluding and I think the end is not really balanced. It comes across as over negative and would like to add this from Adam Boulton who wrote this in the Sunday Times a year ago, when discussing who Britain’s new commissioner would be…
As the European Union’s high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, Catherine Ashton still bestrides the international stage four years after Gordon Brown, the man who gave her the job, was expelled from the corridors of power. She was a surprise nominee to everyone including herself, and few would have expected then that her successor as Britain’s commissioner would struggle to match Baroness Ashton in calibre and clout.
Full reference:  http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/columns/adamboulton/article1433571.ece
YellowFratello (talk) 12:09, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balancing the end of the article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:04, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hi, I think the article needs some mention of her work in relation to Libya. Firestar47 (talk) 20:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Libya?