Talk:Market–Frankford Line

message: Hey everybody, I was a passenger in the front car of the El that was struck by a jumper from the platform yesterday.  I'm looking for any information regarding the jumper (amazingly, he survived the impact, crashing through the front door, but I don't know if he lived much longer afterwards) and the conductor.  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  --Christopher Schwartz, Philadelphia City Paper 139.84.48.249 16:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attempted suicide 6/8/2006 

message: Group: I have noticed there are duplicates and inconsistencies of the listings of the SEPTA MFL stations.  For example, see 5th_Street_%28MFL_station%29 and also 5th_Street_%28SEPTA_station%29.  There are a number of other such examples.  What is the consensus on how these should be depicted?  Then there needs to be some wholesale consoldation and perhaps disambig pages. Professor water 11:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: How Should Stations Be Designated?

message: I would like to see some discussion of the equipment used on the line, like types of subway cars, being a third rail paddle system, the token entry/exit system and how interchanges function at Broad Street and between the trolley lines.  Also, I don't know if this is in the scope of this article or some other article, but the underground pathway system between 11th and 15th street (especially around city hall) is rather intracate, though at present a lot of it has been abandoned.  I've always wanted to know what the original intent and map of that area looked like.  I always assumed it was part of the old interchanges w/ the Broad Street subway.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by DLPanther (talk • contribs) 21:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A "third rail paddle" is called a contact shoe Peter Horn User talk 01:51, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Equipment Details 

message: Some anonymous user keeps posting the idea that Erie–Torresdale (SEPTA station) was a Star Wars Space Base Station beginning in the late-1970's, and posting an e-mail address for those who want more info. I'm pretty sure Wikipedia's not a place to post e-mail addresses, phone numbers and the like, but perhaps somebody would care to tell me what this sort of thing is all about. Maybe then, they'll stop messing up the article on that station. ----DanTD (talk) 22:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Star Wars @ Erie–Torresdale Station? 

message: A recent newspaper article says that there is spalling from the concrete used in the Frankford Avenue elevated line, as a result of improper design. This should be covered in detail. --DThomsen8 (talk) 18:40, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Hiroe (talk) 15:35, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frankford Avenue elevated problems 

message: ...because the Frankford El goes straight to Frankford.    Somebody...name that tune!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.67.104.4 (talk) 21:00, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, clearly you're referring to "Beat-Up Guitar" from The Hooters album Zig Zag.  Hiroe (talk) 22:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  You can't get to heaven on the Frankford El 

message: I'm confused; According to this article, the extension to 2nd Street and the Ferry line was built in 1908 as an elevated line, but when was this section driven underground? ----DanTD (talk) 15:59, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for noting this, and I've gone ahead and clarified the original construction details in the history section. I may add some further refs to this later; but I cannot currently find my copy of The Road To Upper Darby. Hiroe (talk) 16:53, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extension to 2nd Street question 

message: The article notes that the MFL was built entirely with private money, no taxes involved. But it fails to name the company or the personalities involved. Was it controversial at the time? Why did they choose broad gauge? Why does this gauge differ from everything else in the area?
 — Solo Owl (talk) 17:54, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Be it noted that the SEPTA Subway–Surface Trolley Lines use the same oddball track gauge. Peter Horn User talk 00:49, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

text: It was PTC that built the subway. This is covered in detail in The Road To Upper Darby. Still need to find it to answer some of the questions about the "why" of the gauge. Hiroe (talk) 03:07, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Who created the Market-Frankford Line?

message: This article's lead defines the Market-Frankford line as "a rapid transit line in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States". I changed that to "a rapid transit line in Philadelphia". Another editor reverted that change, noting (quite reasonably) in the edit summary that "people outside the US may not know where Philly is"
Clearly, editors have different preferences for how to refer to a city. But this turns out not to be a mere matter of taste. Wikipedia has a relevant policy, WP:naming conventions (geographic names). That page begins, "This page describes conventions for determining the titles of Wikipedia articles on places and for the use of place names in Wikipedia articles."
It's a long read, but the part that's relevant here is this: when naming a U.S. city, Wikipedia's policy is to follow the AP Stylebook. For most U.S. cities the AP (and, therefore Wikipedia) uses names of the form "<city>, <state>" (for example, "Intercourse, Pennsylvania"). But for a list of about thirty large U.S. cities with distinctive names, including Philadelphia, the AP style (and, therefore, Wikipedia's) is to use the city name alone. So it isn't "New York City, New York". It's "New York City". 
If this policy works for the print articles of the AP, it works even better for Wikipedia, because a reader who doesn't know what "Philadelphia" is can use the link. In either case, a user who does know is spared the excess verbiage. (And somebody who wants to read about the Market-Frankford line is more likely than the typical reader to know already what Philadelphia is.)
This is really all about hypertext. A node in a hypertext document needs to contain only the information that's directly relevant to its subject. It doesn't have to duplicate information stored elsewhere. That's why the term "rapid transit" is used but not defined in this same sentence; further information is linked if needed.
Fellow Wikipedians, what do you think? TypoBoy (talk) 20:45, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I see now. Removing "Philadelphia" is reasonable in this context, if the article on Philadelphia is linked. Epic Genius (talk) 14:10, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referring to Philadelphia in the lead 

message: "Following the opening of the Delaware River Bridge in 1926, traffic on the Ferries line declined sharply.[12] Beginning on January 24, 1937, operations were changed to use the Ferry Line only during the day and not at all on Sundays and holidays, though Sunday and holiday service was temporarily resumed during the summers of 1937 and 1938.[12] On May 7, 1939 the line to the ferries was closed temporarily,[12][13] although PRT was forced to return service in 1943.[12] Service was finally ended permanently in 1953, and the structure was demolished.[12][14] The old interlocking tower and stub remains of the junction with the Ferry Line survived until the realignment into the median of I-95 in 1977."
Several issues here.
I've never seen a reference which confirms "Ferries Line" - but this might well have been a nickname used by passengers. Records I've seen refer to the "Delaware Avenue Spur" (post-1922).
I rode the Frankford El many, many times during the early 70s - and saw no trace of the "old interlocking tower and stub remains of the junction." I knew about the Delaware Avenue spur back then, but saw not a trace of it. 
The above two are rather trivial - but the following is not. PRT - which by then was PTC - did not reopen the old El. The replacement service was by shuttle bus. Cox makes this clear ... or at least I thought he did.
So, how about:
Following the opening of the Delaware River Bridge in 1926, traffic on the Ferries line declined sharply.[12] ["as is" to here, then continuing:] Evening, Sunday and holiday service was discontinued on January 24, 1937. Sunday and holiday service was restored from May 30 to September 13, and again from July 3 to September 12, 1938. The last day of service was May 7, 1939 [Source, page 2]. Thereafter, the line was closed and dismantled. A replacement bus service was started in 1943 to serve wartime traffic, and continued in operation until 1953.
Source: W.F. Weigand. PTC Routing Changes Volume Two. c1960.
Upper Darby Dave.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.115.62.67 (talk) 17:26, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delaware Avenue Elevated not restored after 1939 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Market–Frankford Line. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081009001245/http://www.septa.org/inside/reports/Phila_0606.pdf to http://www.septa.org/inside/reports/Phila_0606.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120419142338/http://www.rtands.com/newsflash/fta-divides-112-million-among-46-green-transit-projects-4749.html to http://www.rtands.com/newsflash/fta-divides-112-million-among-46-green-transit-projects-4749.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Market–Frankford Line. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070105143617/http://septa.org/inside/reports/ASP2007.pdf to http://www.septa.org/inside/reports/ASP2007.pdf
*Added  tag to http://www.trainstation.com/mfse1.shtml?mgiToken=LDR55X999D3
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Fellow Wikipedians,
I have removed the false claim in this article's lead sentence that the MFL is also known as the Blue Line.  As indicated in , the "color nomenclature" is not used by Philadelphians.  If someone can find a source indicating that it is commonly used by out-of-towners, feel free to add it back in.  128.135.98.116 (talk) 00:09, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reverted this.  There are plenty of reputable websites that state "Blue Line".  A simple search (Google or Bing) using "Blue Line Philadelphia" shows plenty of them, including the PATCO website:,  &  Morphenniel (talk) 11:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Late to this party: I have added an official SEPTA reference to "Blue Line" to the article. 128.91.40.229 (talk) 15:49, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed "Blue Line" 

message: I've added the construction cost ("road and equipment") stated in the "Report on behalf of the City of Philadelphia on the valuation of the property of the Philadelphia Rapid Transit Co."
Upper Darby Dave  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.104.70.150 (talk) 19:05, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added construction cost of original line 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Blue Line (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 5#Blue Line (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  TartarTorte 23:53, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Blue Line (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line)" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Blue Line (Philadelphia Market–Frankford Line) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 5#Blue Line (Philadelphia Market–Frankford Line) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  TartarTorte 23:53, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Blue Line (Philadelphia Market–Frankford Line)" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Blue Line (Market–Frankford Line) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 5#Blue Line (Market–Frankford Line) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  TartarTorte 23:53, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Blue Line (Market–Frankford Line)" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]