Talk:J. C. Watts

message: n-[1]
It is unclear if his official name is Julius Caesar or simply J. C. Many sourcessource 1source 2source 3 use "Julius Caesar" but others suggest it is simply a nickname handed down from his fatherMJS source.
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:–CWenger (^ • @) 22:58, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: To be safe from misinforming, I think it should be done the other way around, at least with J. C. we have a name he always uses, so "J. C. Watts, Jr." should be given a note that some sources use "Julius Caesar" but others suggest this is a mere nickname. Hekerui (talk) 08:25, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I was proposing the other way since we have several sources that say "Julius Caesar" (including this one that I just found; if you can't access it says "He was born with the name Julius Caesar Watts...") and only one that hints it is a nickname. –CWenger (^ • @) 15:48, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The author wrote Julius Caesar to use a figure of speech, verifiability not truth does not extend to such things, no? Can we expect this was throroughly investigated by the author of a college football encyclopedia when the sources much closer to Watts talk about this as a made-up name? We should go with the name on the front of his book and in the author section of his autobio and mention the possible name of Julius Caesar in the note - this uncertainty is precisely why we want the note in the first place, no? Regards Hekerui (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, I don't put a lot of stock in the college football encyclopedia, which is why I'm not suggesting it is definitive even though it clearly says it was his birth name. But neither do I put a lot of stock in the MJS piece, which was basically just a book review, and even then, the only hint that the author didn't think "Julius Caesar" was his real name was the use of the term "moniker". Since so many sources say "Julius Caesar" it makes sense to use that but note the exception rather than vice versa. –CWenger (^ • @) 15:06, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

text: The only reason we have to doubt that his full name includes "Julius Caesar" is a vague use of the term "moniker" in a single Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel article written by somebody who simply read Watts' book and didn't appear to interview anybody for his story. We are balancing that against major sources like his autobiography, his Congressional biography, the Oklahoma Historical Society, and Black Americans in Congress, just to name a few. Verifiability, not truth says we report what reliable sources say and if we happen to be wrong people at least know where we got the inaccurate information. I think the note explaining the potential confusion about his birth name is more than sufficient. –CWenger (^ • @) 16:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: J.C. is much more easily verifiable, it's on the cover of his autobiography, while Julius Caesar is in a story in it that leaves lots of questions. Putting the Julius Caesar in the lead is creating confusion, not dispelling it. Your characterization of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, which states that his initials have no meaning as not trustworthy is based on your interpretation, not something verifiable, is that not so? Hekerui (talk) 16:53, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Common names are always more verifiable than birth names—that doesn't mean we don't put them in articles. We have a note that explains the potential confusion so I don't see what the problem is. Also, can you point to the line in the MJS article that says his initials have no meaning? It very clearly says "For the future congressman's father..." (my emphasis added). –CWenger (^ • @) 17:04, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Previously you were fine with using both names, we just quibbled about the order. Have you had a change of heart? –CWenger (^ • @) 17:08, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I supported mentioning the uncertainty in the note, but I very much dislike potentially misinforming the readers by using this supposed full name for all the reasons mentioned on this talk page. At this point, I'd love to contact that man to put this to rest. J.C. and Julius Caesar. What's wrong with John? Hekerui (talk) 17:34, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, I would love to know the truth. If you are right I owe you a drink. –CWenger (^ • @) 17:56, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Reply in a new section because of the note formatting

message: * Rand Paul Has J.C. Watts in His Corner--5.170.238.184 (talk) 18:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Endorsment of Rand Paul? 

message: I verified in Watts' autobiography that his father's given name was J.C. not Julius Caesar. However, I see sources suggesting that somewhere down the line, his dad changed his name formally to "Julius Caesar". Examples:
*Oklahoma death record - Julius C. Watts - this is his father, based on this Oklahoman article the day after.
*The Oklahoma Historical Society Encyclopedia entry on J.C. Jr. that names his father "Julius C. Watts, Sr."
*And this official U.S. House Archives bio that calls his father "Julius Caesar (Buddy) Watts". 
Furthermore, several articles about his son Trey Watts, who's now in the NFL, report his full name as "Julius Caesar Watts III". Like The Oklahoman in 2013 and Charleston (WV) Gazette in 2011. Arbor to SJ (talk) 04:14, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  I think his father changed his name. 

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