Talk:Carnatic music/Archive 1

message: --Siva 15:54, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: changed to Carnatic -- Paddu 09:21, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

text: "Carnatic" is as correct as "Crishna" for "Krishna" and "Cawnpore" for "Kanpur".MarcAurel 03:23, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Karnatak vs Carnatic 

message: Hi, Thanks for ur comments. I'm unable to view the devanagari encoding and thought that they were junk characters and deleted them. I'm using firefox(0.8)/mozilla(1.7b) as the browser. I have selected the encoding as Hindi(Devanagari) but still the characters show up jumbled. Can you pls let me know how to view them?
Thanks
:You don't need to select any encoding, but you need to have you got Devanagari fonts installed? What's your OS? -- Arvindn 05:37, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Devanagari 

message: "Carnatic music uses the carnatic scale, which from the starting note is half step, one-and-a-half steps, half step, whole step, half step, one-and-a-half steps, half step. As you may notice, this is symmetrical, and the sargam letters (in Tamil at least) used to refer to the notes (sa ri ga ma pa tha ni sa) reflect that symmetry - ri & ni look similar, ga & tha look similar, and ma and pa look similar."
there is no such thing as 'the carnatic scale' defined this way. this is merely one of many scales that are used. Iitmsriram 15:35, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scale 

message: Are the nagaswaram and tavil purely historical in relation to Carnatic music? That is to say, they are not used in classical concerts today, and their use in weddings and religious functions is vestigial. -- Solipsist 11:36, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  History/Instruments 

message: I made a significant contribution to the Concerts and Content. As I write other pages related to Carnatic music I see a need to link to concerts and contents. Do you guys think it makes sense to move these out to a separate article? HairyPotter 05:38, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure—are there articles specifically about concerts in other styles of music?--Siva 21:16, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really, but there is Music Season for now that wants to explain 'what goes on' during a Carnatic Music Concert. HairyPotter 02:18, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: Do we really need it? Also, I think "Music Season" is far too general a name for that article. At the very least it should be "Music season (Indian music)" or "Music season (Carnatic music)."--Siva 23:37, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Concerts and Content

message: My Dears,
:I want to know which ragam was to playback in a wedding VIDEO CD.
:And tell me the title of the album IN CD.
:And tell me where i will get.
:Please contact me to msfelix@rediffmail.com or msfelix@hotmail.com.
:Awaiting for the mail.
:Do this favour for me.
::Thanks from Felix.S.Stephenson
:I'm sorry, but it doesn't serve the purpose of an encyclopedia to tell you which ragam was played on a CD. Besides, we don't know which CD you're referring to.--Siva 20:32, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Favour for me. 

message: What's with the Telugu transliterations in this article? To be fair, shouldn't there also be Tamil, Kannada and Malayalam transliterations of all the terms?--Siva 14:33, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Telugu transliterations 

message: Pardon my ignorance, but how famous is Palghat Srirama Bhagavathar ? His page looks more like a family history than about his accomplishments. Tintin 09:15, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say the article is worth deleting. Like you said, it looks more like a family history than an encyclopaedic article. It's not very well-written either; not only does it have a lot of unexplained jargon ("gurukulavasam", "rasika"), it is also packed with clichés ("breathed his last") and perhaps even a few grammatical flaws. Also note the broken links at the top of the page, neither of which would actually be the title of any article in Wikipedia. However, if the creator of the article is willing to speak out in favour of the greatness of Palghat Srirama Bhagavathar (perhaps providing us with a few links to sites containing slightly more authoritative information), the deletion of the article would probably merit reconsideration.--Siva 13:47, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

text: *Thank you. Should it be moved to Palghat Rama Bhavathar ( etc) ? That seems to be the name by which he was known. It needs a cleanup - a lot of the family details can be removed - but I don't have the guts to rewrite an article on Carnatic music :-) Tintin 14:57, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Palghat Srirama Bhagavathar

message: The article Surajananda has been submitted for AfD voting. If he is someone important, please vote and/or try to improve the article. thanks, Tintin 18:29, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles for Deletion 

message: Can editors here please give their opinions at Talk:Carnatic flute, regarding the proposed page move?  Because there are several main vernacular languages used in South India (Tamil, Telegu, Kannada, and Malayalam), it's probably not a good idea to have the article title under one of those four names; also, I don't know if it's a great idea to have it listed with the English word "flute."  Thus, I am proposing to move Carnatic flute to "Venu," one of the Sanskrit names for the instrument, and the Indian name by which the Carnatic bamboo flute is best known in English-speaking countries.  Thanks!  Badagnani 07:54, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of Carnatic flute 

message: The latest reverts by this user requires some close attention. I don't believe the previous edits warrented such sweeping deletes, although this action is nothing new. Bharatveer as you have deleted the so-called 'Tamil POV' would you mind spending a bit of time editing this article to add some citation information? - Parthi 05:38, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bharatveer, when are you going to stop this driveby reverts and namecalling and for once make some useful contribution to WP? BTW it is my business to question any blanket reverts. I make useful contributions - Parthi 08:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And when did The Hindu become an acceptable source for you (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ramayana#User:Bharatveer.27s_edit_wars). I thought you considered it a marxist journal?? - Parthi 08:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Parthy, terms like "useful" are all very relative. I quoted "the hindu" as i thought it would be acceptable to you .So dont try to digress from the topic.This article is about carnatic music, let the discussion be about it then. Bharatveer 08:44, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sticking to the topic, I had a look at the two refs you provided. The first one is the Carnatica.net mentioning that Purandaradasa is the Sangeetha pitamaha. There is no other reference in the site. Who named his such? Carnatical.net? The the article should say. Purandaradasa is called the Sangeetha Pitamaha by Carnatic.net. I also read through the Hindu article. I couldn't find any information refering to the cited statement "The roots of Carnatic music was sown during the Vijayanagar Empire by the Kannada Haridasa movement of Vyasaraja, Purandaradasa, Kanakadasa and others." in the article. Can you be a bit more specific in your citation? - Parthi 08:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

text:  The references are good .(atleast as good as the references you cited in the ramayana article). Dont expect me to point out each information for you . From the ref ; "The southern music system was for the first time called ``Karnataka Sangeetham in the 13th Century when Vijayanagar was founded"  . IS That specific enough??Bharatveer 09:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the article says Purandaradasa lived during Vijayanagar period. There is no dispute there. My question was about the statement The roots of Carnatic music was sown (sic)... etc. Where in the article does it state that Purandaradasa invented carnatic music? BTW one cannot sow roots. The article does not even mention Vyasaraja and Kanakadasa. How can you provide this reference source to support the statement? - Parthi 09:23, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The references are good and it will stay. There is no point in confusing the issue altogether.What do u mean by purandaradasa inventing carnatic music? Bharatveer 09:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the article will be copyedited. Watch this space. - Parthi 09:49, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

text: You can certainly copyedit , but it should not be vandalism like what you are trying to do here.Bharatveer 11:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you tell me how my edits are vandalism? - Parthi 11:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And can you also explain why we need to have Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam and Devanagri scripts in this article but not Tamil? - Parthi 11:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

text:  Who is stopping you from including tamil script here? You can surely include tamil script too .Bharatveer 11:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I can quote not one but thousands of songs from each of india's languages.Similarly I find almost all languages of the world as sweet and rythmic as Tamil. Your reaction is nothing but some sort of emotional outburst.Your edits were also reverted for the same reason.Bharatveer 13:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since Bharatveer true to form has reverted the History section to his POV, I have included the weasle tag to highlight that this section is highly pov and some users are unwilling to accept a more rounded history for Carnatic music. - Parthi 05:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The latest reversals by [[User:Bharatveer]] 

message: I am going to raise the behaviour of User:Bharatveer for arbitration with the admins. This has gone beyond reasonable conduct. - Parthi 08:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Bhartveer has reverted (not edited) this article once , twice , thrice , four times , five times , six time , seven times  in the past 24 hours. He/she hasn't even seem to attempt seeing a different position in latest reverts. Some action needs to be taken quite urgently on this user.- Parthi 08:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arbitration request regarding unreasonable behaviour by [[User:Bharatveer]] 

message: :Hold on—the above conflict could be cleared up if relatively unbiased answers are given to the following questions:
#What is the relationship between Tamil music and Carnatic music? Are they one and the same, or do they form distinct traditions that both emerged from a common ancestor?
#What exactly were the contributions of the Tamil trinity to Carnatic music?
#Is there any evidence that these contributions had an influence on later Carnatic musicians such as T, MD and SS, or is it possible that people outside of Tamil Nadu came up with the same things  independently?
#Is there any evidence that Tyagaraja et al. were influenced by the musical tradition of Tamil Nadu? If so, then why did they not compose any songs in Tamil?
#Why is it that the Tamil trinity is not very well known?
I have no bias one way or the other; these questions are asked with an open mind. --Siva 17:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A possible resolution 

message: In accordance with what was agreed above, I've removed the vernacular scripts from everywhere except the article title itself, and the svara table.  As suggested by User:Bharatveer, I've also arranged the five scripts in order of their name in the Latin alphabet, moving Malayalam up two places.  While doing this, I noticed that technical terms in this article are sometimes written in their Tamil form (with a trailing '-m', e.g. 'swaram, 'ragam'), sometimes in their Kannada form (with a trailing '-e', e.g. 'prarthane', 'keerthane') and sometimes in their Sanskrit form.  It seems most sensible to me to standardise on using the Sanskrit form for all names (thus, 'svara', 'raga', 'prarthana', 'kirtana', etc.) -- Arvind 20:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Forms of technical terms 

message: I have cleaned up the article with a number of Manual of style changes and did some minor copyedits. This article still needs a deep copyedit for language and summary style. Some of the sections have been written in a style not suitable for an encyclopedia. As I am not an expert with the technicalities of Carnatic music, I will now let people who know the stuff to carry on. - Parthi 06:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: கருநாடக இசை is the correct name; that's what the Tamil article is called. --Siva 02:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately the tranliteration in the Tamil article is not entirely accurate. The most common usage is கர்நாடக இசை. - Parthi 04:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Siva is right. The correct written form is கருநாடக இசை, though it is written as கர்நாடக இசை or  கர்நாடக சங்கீதம் in spoken style. Tamil words don't have the form கர்நாxxx etc. Words which have such forms as கர்xxx etc. are either corrupted forms (of கருxxx) or loan words. Here கரு stands for central, essenatial, traditional core. --Aadal 14:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely.  If you look at the Madras Tamil Lexicon, you'll see that they list both forms under கர்நாடகம் and கருநாடகம்), but say that கர்நாடகம் is derived from கருநாடகம்.  The relevant pages are 363 and 374, in case the direct links don't work. -- Arvind 23:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tamil name 

message: I had reverted to Venu62's version. These repeated vandalisms clearly show the anti-tamil bias of some users.--Aadal 19:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: I wonder whether someone can show evidences that Vyasatirtha and Kanakadasa composed Carnatic Kritis and whether their Kritis were popular or prevalent with singers. I do know that Kanakadasa was a revered saint and Vyasatirtha was a Sanskrit scholar, but my questions are about Carnatic Kriti.  Were their compositions Kritis? I've not read in any of the books that they were Carnatic Kriti composers. On the other hand Annamacharya's Kirtanas, though discovered late, had Pallavi, Anupallavi, Charanam parts. Taallapaakkam (1400-1500) composers were among the first to have Kirtanas with the three parts (P,A,C).--Aadal 13:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder why there is no response to these questions. Are the statements made in the article correct?--Aadal 03:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Evidence for Vyasatirtha and Kanakadasa's Carnatic Kritis?

message: First: The "History" section asserts that Purandaradasa mentions in one of his compositions that he wrote 475,000 songs. It would be nice to have a reference for this (at least the name of that composition), as it could be seen by some as hyperbole.
Second: Why was the  tag removed from the sentence about Carnatic music being one of the "oldest and richest" musical traditions? Richness of a musical tradition is subjective, and any statement concerning this is best left out of this article. And it needs to be justified (perhaps with a relevant reference) that Carnatic music is indeed one of the oldest musical traditions. If you count Samaveda as part of Carnatic music, then sure, it's probably the oldest surviving one. But if you say that Carnatic music began with Purandaradasa, then it's hardly any older that European classical music. --Siva 00:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not true that Carnatic music started with Sri Purandaradasa or Tallapaakkam Sri Annamacharya. Carnatic music is the current name for the traditional south indian classical music- and it is and had been evolving, like any living music. The concept of raga, systematic generation of scales for ragas (a scale is not a raga), systematic tala (rythm), long and continuous traditions over 2500 years with tens  (or hundreds) of thousands of songs of rich philosophical content are quite unique. You're perfectly right that if we count only from 1500s, then perhaps it is not much older than western classical music. In any case, when the statement is one of the oldest and richest, I think the statement is quite valid.--Aadal 19:05, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fact-checking 

message: Sorry, another thing: we need fuller bibliographic information for "Theory of Music" by Vidushi Vasanthamadhavi, as well as the Tamil poem cited. (A translation of the latter would be nice, too.) --Siva 00:13, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have inserted a citation for the number of Purandara Dasa's compositions. I have removed the mention of his song in which he claims so. I have no proof. If some one wishes to cite it we can reinsert this sentence. I have also removed the sentence in the lead para about Carnatic music being one of the oldest traditions. If someone wishes to cite it we can unhide this sentence. - Parthi 01:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: Is it OK to add an external link to www.rasikas.org/intro.php which is a website containing forum discussions on carnatic music, to wikipedia pages directly related to carnatic music?
The website contains non-forum content also (as in http://rasikas.org/chembai).
Wikipedia external links policy specifies that forums are generally not to be linked to since they are presumed to contain non-verified or non-original content.
But I feel a mere "art form" such as Carnatic Music can only evoke opinions, and not hard facts such as papers on sciences. Such opinions (at least on this forum) usually come from connoisseurs and contain valuable factual information, notwithstanding that they expressed in a forum.
More, I feel wikipedia's ultimate intent is to guide its users to find relevant content-rich pages that may be of interest to them. This aim is satisfied by the website in question.
So I feel this case is a good exception to the general rule that forums or websites containing forums are not fit generally for external linking in wikipedia.
Please give your opinions.--Kris 09:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding an external link to a website containing a discussion forum 

message: The user Aadal has called me (and probably User:Sarvagna) as vandals (name-calling) at []. On 14th October, he/she twice reverted the article and both times called me "vandal".
I pointed it out to him/her at User_talk:Aadal#Calling_names, and he/she denied outright that he/she called me a vandal. After I again indicated the article history page, also citing Wikipedia:Vandalism, he/she was forced to acknowledge that he/she called me a vandal. But he/she still refused to accept that calling me a vandal was name calling, and further added that he/she was right in calling me a vandal. When Wikipedia:Vandalism#What_vandalism_is_not clearly points out that edits pursuant to NPOV disputes are not to be considered vandalism, User:Aadal persists in his/her offense without offering any apology. This is like adding salt to wounds and has caused much personal offense. I want Aadal to apologise here for his/her offensive conduct and personal attacks.--Kris 04:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Aadal wasn't half offensive as you were when you called me a liar. Don't keep harping on some imagined offense and write some useful articles in WP. - Parthi talk/contribs 05:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  But you did lie when you said a consensus has been reached on the issue. Calling someone a vandal when its not Vandalism is name-calling, nothing more. And when I User_talk:Aadal#Calling_names pointed it out to him/her, she has accepted that she called me a vandal, its not an imagined offense.--Kris 05:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  User Aadal's unreasonable and offensive behavior 

message: Substituted at 20:17, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment