Talk:Trillium cernuum

message: There are multiple issues regarding the photos on this page. Comments welcome.
===Unconfirmed species===
I can not confirm the identity of the plants in the above photo. AFAICT, there are no pigments in the reproductive organs, which leads me to believe this might be T. flexipes, not T. cernuum. Tom Scavo (talk) 16:40, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This is definitely T. cernuum - I can see the gray-lavender pigmentation in the anthers, which are the correct length relative to both the filament and the ovary. T. flexipes would have much longer anthers without gray-lavender coloring.Doppelbrau (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks  I think you're right. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

text: I agree. Besides the location problem, this specimen differs from T. cernuum in coloration, stamen morphology, and petal carriage. Buncombe County is in the hotbed for complex hybrids in this group of species, which can mix-and-match characteristics of several species. This one is probably misidentified by the contributor, . Doppelbrau (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is not misidentified.  It was a specimen at the Asheville Botanical Gardens and was identified by signage at the location and confirmed by the resident gardener. ++Arx Fortis (talk) 21:26, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks  that is helpful. Despite what the signage and the gardener claim, I agree with , this is not T. cernuum. Even if it were, we would not want to include it here since it gives the impression that T. cernuum is native to North Carolina, which is not true. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Removed. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:48, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

text: Seems reasonable to remove it from the page, then. Doppelbrau (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay, I'll do that. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Replaced with photo of budding plant. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:48, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

text: I agree, but also, wouldn't this be the case for nearly any photo of the fruit of either of these species? Doppelbrau (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, not quite. The fruit of T. cernuum starts out the same color as the ovary, that is, white or white with a pink blush. By August it will have ripened to a dark red. Does it make sense to include photos of both unripe and ripe fruit? Tom Scavo (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I can't be sure but I think this is a photo of T. erectum, so I replaced this with a photo of a fruiting plant more likely to be T. cernuum. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:48, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo gallery

message: I can not confirm the identity of the plants in the above photo. AFAICT, there are no pigments in the reproductive organs, which leads me to believe this might be T. flexipes, not T. cernuum. Tom Scavo (talk) 16:40, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This is definitely T. cernuum - I can see the gray-lavender pigmentation in the anthers, which are the correct length relative to both the filament and the ovary. T. flexipes would have much longer anthers without gray-lavender coloring.Doppelbrau (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks  I think you're right. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Unconfirmed species

message: The location of this specimen is given as Buncombe County, NC but this is out of range for T. cernuum, whose range extends as far south as northern VA. Tom Scavo (talk) 16:40, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Besides the location problem, this specimen differs from T. cernuum in coloration, stamen morphology, and petal carriage. Buncombe County is in the hotbed for complex hybrids in this group of species, which can mix-and-match characteristics of several species. This one is probably misidentified by the contributor, . Doppelbrau (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is not misidentified.  It was a specimen at the Asheville Botanical Gardens and was identified by signage at the location and confirmed by the resident gardener. ++Arx Fortis (talk) 21:26, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks  that is helpful. Despite what the signage and the gardener claim, I agree with , this is not T. cernuum. Even if it were, we would not want to include it here since it gives the impression that T. cernuum is native to North Carolina, which is not true. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Removed. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:48, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Specimen out of range

message: This is one of three photos of a single plant, all on the same page. This particular photo is nearly indistinguishable from the photo in the top righthand corner of the page. Tom Scavo (talk) 16:40, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems reasonable to remove it from the page, then. Doppelbrau (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay, I'll do that. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Replaced with photo of budding plant. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:48, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Redundant photo

message: This fruit could easily be that of T. erectum. Without more information, it's hard to tell. Tom Scavo (talk) 16:40, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but also, wouldn't this be the case for nearly any photo of the fruit of either of these species? Doppelbrau (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, not quite. The fruit of T. cernuum starts out the same color as the ovary, that is, white or white with a pink blush. By August it will have ripened to a dark red. Does it make sense to include photos of both unripe and ripe fruit? Tom Scavo (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I can't be sure but I think this is a photo of T. erectum, so I replaced this with a photo of a fruiting plant more likely to be T. cernuum. Tom Scavo (talk) 18:48, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Ambiguous species

message: I should probably work on this page some.  But I thought I'd start by mentioning that at the moment, I'm the top observer of this flower on inaturalist.  And I expect I will keep that up.  https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=any&subview=table&taxon_id=169984&view=observers
Before May 2020 there were 3 observations in New Hampshire.  I've done 80.  The second highest in the world has done 54.  
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/proud-of-my-nodding-trillium-observations/12598
So maybe I can provide some photos, and maybe some more info on seasonal changes or something.  —Darxus (talk) 00:29, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm the top observer of this flower on inaturalist