Talk:Robert Moses

message: An article today, 3/29/16, in the WAshington Post talked about his influence in Baltimore.  A quick google search verifies that he did have some effect but this is not mentioned in this article.  somebody should write it up.Conscientia (talk) 16:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  He also had an influence in Baltimore

message: Gore Vidal wrote a long expose of Robert Moses, who enriched himself to the tune of millions by committing fraud on an unprecedented scale, unprecedented even for NYC.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.127.51 (talk) 05:55, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The fact that he was one of the most corrupt people of all time isn't even mentioned??? 

message: "Los Angeles is considered the "freeway city", but the New York Metro Area (New York + Northeastern New Jersey) actually has more miles of highway."
Is there a source for this? How is this computed? What's definied as the metro areas? Of course the NYC area has more miles than LA proper, which is what a strict reading would say. I've commented out this line. --SPUI (talk) 13:23, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It came from The Power Broker.  I won't be able to remember the pg, but I'm sure Caro gave that statistic.Dinopup 18:58, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed it did come from "The Power Broker": page 940 of my edition, in the chapter "Point of No Return." Here's the quote: "In 1964, when Robert Moses completed his major highway building, there were completed or well under way in the New York metropolitan region 899 miles of such highways -- 627 built by him .... No other metropolitan region in America possessed 700 miles of such highways. No other metropolitan region possessed 600 miles -- or 500. Even Los Angeles ... possessed in 1964 only 459 miles of such highways." I checked the end notes, and although they are extensive, I can find no source for Caro's numbers.02:58, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: These figures have changed somewhat in the forty years since Caro published his biography.  The Los Angeles metropolitan area has sprawled out into the surrounding counties, stimulating the building of many new freeways, roads, and even some toll-ways.
--I think Caro was emphasizing this in order to bring home a point. In reality, absolute numbers mean very little. What would be relevent is showing highway miles per capita, which I'm sure LA would beat out NY on in a heartbeat. Also, I don't see why NJ should be included when talking about Moses' influence, since he had nothing to do with any of those. --Jleon 22:56, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Actually, he had plenty to do with those highways in NJ -- at least according to Caro. I replaced the relevant sentence with an ellipses in my quote above, and now I've returned the book to the library. However, if I remember correctly, Caro wrote that the Port Authority of NJ and Robert Moses made a deal whereby Authority money would go to Moses' highway and bridge projects in NY and NJ. The Authority was afraid that the NJ state legislature was going to force it to use its sizable savings to improve the railroads and public transit, but the Authority knew it would make more money from toll-paying bridges and highways. However, it lacked the vision and expertise to build those bridges and highways, so it had Moses do it for them.--Adamzs 01:48, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

text: This discussion is old - but Moses had a hand in designing the route for the Palisades Interstate Parkway, which passes through New Jersey (but was designed to bring New Yorkers to the Palisades Interstate Park). As far as I know, that is the only highway Moses was involved in building in New Jersey. Darkcore 20:21, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Miles of freeway?

message: The first paragraph of this article definitely needs to be NPOV'd, big time.  While I personally am not a fan of displacing neighborhoods for freeways or excessive "auto-oriented" urban development, the article's introduction is no more than an opinionated criticism with a birthdate.  Somebody please change this!
:Feel free.  It's hard to say that his "mistakes" is NPOV, any more than his alleged "adoration" on Long Island is, but it's hard not to see some of his freeway projects as a mistake.  What the article needs to say is that some of his projects are now considered to have been mistakes by many informed observers and then sources for this cited, and also to source just who his Long Island "adorers" are.  If you can do this, you should.  Rlquall 04:46, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have re-worked the opening paragraph.  While it is not perfect, I think it neutralizes the paragraph enough to remove the NPOV template from the article.  Anyone that wants to clean it up more, feel free.  K1vsr 21:12, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nice job K1vsr with the opening paragraph. It is quite neutral now. The next paragraph needs significant work. In particular: "Never elected to public office ... without having to answer to the general public or to elected officials ...  responsible for 90% of the state's debt" I feel like it would be better to describe what he actually did first and then get into the controversial details. Also, the current debt of the state shouldn't be in his introduction paragraph! I think whoever started this section hit the nail on the head with his criticism. Lets fix this! (note I have added the POV tag to the article) Lansey (talk) 16:33, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: One of the most significant facts about Moses was that he was not a politician. Our experience today is of years of public meetings, debate, and repeated plebiscites before every major infrastructure project. Not to mention environmental impact statements and endless rounds of lawsuits. That one man, unelected, could build so much, with other people's money, with so little standing in his way is what makes him unique, and utterly unfamiliar to the modern citizen. New York state's debt structure is equally unique, and is as much a legacy of Moses as the infrastructure he built, and will probably outlast most of the physical structures. By all means, rephrase it to be as neutral as you can, but the facts themselves deserve mention in the lead. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: It is simiply a  matter of Wikistyle to eliminate redirects in blue links whenever possible.  It is not a matter of endorsing the Dodgers' move to LA or not!
Rlquall 00:23, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect 

message: The following comment was originally posted alone at the top of this page, I have moved it here. -Lanoitarus (talk) .:. 08:09, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: JP Morgan

message: I see any effort to compare Moses's efforts favorably with current developnent disasters (i.e. Ground Zero and the Big Dig) is deemed "NPOV". Is wikipedia a digital Pravda? I'm sure if we just wanted to reprint Caro's book we could simply ask for copyright permission, why engage in indepednent thought or reasoning —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.9.141.171 (talk • contribs) .
:Wikipedia is not a place to add your own opinions (see WP:OR), if You find such comparisons from newspapers etc. then You are welcome to add them (linking to the source). Thanks, feydey 19:37, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where the heck did you get the idea that Wikipedia is a place for indepedent thought or reasoning, or for propagation of "common knowledge"?  Please consult Wikipedia policy and conform your edits to that. -- 71.102.194.130 08:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: The opening of the article says that Moses was responsible for the UN being built in NY rather than DC. Could we get a citation or some more details?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.172.169.21 (talk • contribs) .
--Robert Caro mentions it in the Powerbroker. p.771-5. Moses didn't get it built but he had a huge influence in coordinating resources to get it done. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.106.111.182 (talk • contribs).
--I added a citation needed tag for the above mentioned assertion (now in paragraph 3).  The Caro citation listed above isn't enough, because it doesn't specify what Moses's role was vs. William Zeckendorf and John_D._Rockefeller,_Jr..  It's a complicated question, but I think we should try to get it right.Fixifex (talk) 17:27, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  UN? 

message: [...] leaving densely populated Long Island landlocked may not have been an optimal policy decision [...]
There must be a better word as Long Island is the opposite of landlocked.
Lent 04:39, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about isolated? Thesilence 20:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long Island "landlocked" 

message: Three major exhibits in 2007 helped rehabilitate his image among intellectuals, as they realized the magnitude of his achievements.
These exhibits haven't even opened yet, how have they already rehabilitated his image?
Pdxstreetcar 03:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: we are telling users what the New York Times reported.  The decision of curators and experts at three major museums in NYC, bolstered by interviews, is the "rehabilitation," not how many people eventually look at the exhibits. Rjensen 11:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are we jumping the gun here? 

message: I notice a change from saying the Navy vetoed the bridge, to the War Department (Army).  So, which one had the say so, at that time?  Today it would be the Army.
Jim.henderson 23:32, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  So, the correction is correct, since legally speaking it was indeed an Army job to protect the Navy from undue development endangering navigation.  My guess is, this has been the law for at least the entire 20th century, though of course one could expect interdeparmental cooperation in an interservice matter.  And, in this case, the power was abused for a political purpose.  Or, from a conservative point of view, the military establishment was wisely used to block excessive civic progress.  Whatever spin is preferred.  Jim.henderson 04:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Battle of Brooklyn Battery Bridge

message: It might seem like a nit, but I would argue that this current phrase doesn't go far enough:
"the decline of public transport through disinvestment and neglect."  Moses didn't just neglect public transit, he was actively hostile towards it (e.g. he called for low overpasses on the parkways to make sure no one tried running busses on them later). -- Doom 05:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Where was this?  I've heard it said of Jones Beach, but when I bicycle to that park I have to dodge buses.  See the article Jones Beach.  Was it some other parkway?  Jim.henderson 07:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

text: The claim that this is "a basic part of the theory" is ad hoc and POV.  And no one has said Moses was a bad administrator -- that's quite a strawman.  The argument -- based on evidence -- is that Moses' policies were deliberate and effective means of blocking access to the poor. -- 71.102.194.130 08:41, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

text: And yet lines like the IND Fulton Street Line and IND Queens Boulevard Line were still extended, and the IND Rockaway Line took over the burned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch. He never blocked any of those. The Chrystie Street Connection was built with no interference from Moses. Also, he advocated that the portion of the Rockaway Beach Branch north of Ozone Park should be converted into a subway line. Doesn't sound like he was as hell-bent on working against mass transit to me. Just in favor of drivers. ---------User:DanTD (talk)  05:01, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  nelected public transit or hostile towards it? 

message: There are evidently a number of different editions of Robert Caro's biography Powerbroker, with differing page numbers.  The NYT 1981 Moses obituary gives it as 1246 pages.  The current Amazon editions list the hardcover at 1336 pages and the paperback at 1344 pages.  So for accuracy, comments on page number should list which edition is being used. --Blainster 17:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The page number inconsistency is problematic, because it is completely inadequate to reference a claim by saying that it appears somewhere in the more than 1000 pages of Caro's massive biography. Page numbers, or chapter and section numbers, or some other scheme are needed to allow references to be verified. How is this situation handled in similar cases, where there are multiple editions of a reference work? Reify-tech (talk) 14:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Page references

message: "He claimed that he could keep African Americans from using pools in white neighborhoods by making the water too cold"
Is this a paraphrase?  The term "African Americans" would seem to apply to an era after Moses was active in this field.  Is there a more direct quote?  Jim.henderson 01:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone familiar with the English language knows that "he claimed that", and no quote marks, indicates a paraphrase. -- 71.102.194.130 08:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cold water

message: Currently, the article states, “He grew up in the Dwight Street area of New Haven.” However, I have a source (a Newsday article) that says this: “Moses grew up in New York City, where the family lived on East 46th Street, just off Fifth Avenue” source I’m going to replace the Dwight Street thing with this, because at least this statement is sourced. —BrOnXbOmBr21 10:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, they are both true.  The Moses family moved to 83 Dwight Street in New Haven in 1886, Robert was born in 1888, and lived there until 1897, when Bella moved the family from Connecticut to their place on East 46th Street.  So since he spent the first 9 years of his life in New Haven, it's safe to say he grew up there as much as he grew up in NYC.  This is in Caro's book, so I'll be sure to source it as well as leave your Newsday reference.  CraigyMack 04:22, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where'd Moses grow up? 

message: I enjoyed this article.  UnclePaco 04:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and an interesting article too! Good writing!  Better hope Wiki doesn't find it, they think that means: "unencyclopedic," — it's supposed to be dry & dusty. I particularly enjoyed the values which put, "greatest proportion of public benefit corporations," up front.  <BR>  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:E454:D78D:E92F:E1E6 (talk) 22:56, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting Fellow 

message: The article, referencing Robert Caro, claims that “low overpasses on parkways were made purposely too low for buses to clear . . . to prevent the poor and racial minorities (largely dependent on public transit) from accessing the beach, while providing easy car access for wealthier white groups” as if this were fact. Actually, while Moses’ racial views might remain controversial, this allegation, which originates (chiefly) with Langdon Winners whom Robert Caro cites in his book, has been thoroughly debunked by Bernward Joerges in his essay Do Politics Have Artefacts? (1999). On page 8, for instance, he writes that “at the time of the parkway building (beginning 1924), Long Island was already considerably well developed in terms of transport. The Manhattan-Long Island railway operated since 1877, and a rather dense system of ordinary roads was in place, parallel and across the parkways. The Long Island Expressway, a true Autobahn intended to relieve traffic congestion on the Island, was built by Moses alongside the Parkways.” Hence, as a segregational measure, those bridges would be utterly ineffectual. Joerges goes on to give multiple reasons for those bridge’s nature, referring, for example, to engineers who explain “that commercial traffic was excluded from the parkways anyway; and that the generally good transport situation on Long Island forbade the very considerable cost of raising the bridges. In other words, Caro and Winner don’t know what they are talking about.” —Telofy (talk) 15:16, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That whole section (#Legacy and lasting impact) reads like an essay (using rhetorical questions and basically advancing the editor's opinion) so I stuck . As you are familiar with the subject, please try to clean it up. Adding this counter-argument is important to the article's neutral point of view, as it currently blatantly pushes Winner's thesis for a large part of that section. -M.Nelson (talk) 17:13, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. I cleaned it up as well as I could and fixed a few typographic issues. If you think it’s still essay-like, please put that template back up. —Telofy (talk) 18:44, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Having read the Joerges article, I feel that "throughly refuted" is much too strong. Changing it to "disputed" will do trick, and will let readers decide for themselves whether his argument is convincing.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.215.101.254 (talk) 20:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doubtful allegations of racism in regard to Long Island bridges 

message: I read about three screens and I still don't understand what was this man's job. It seems he wasn't mayor, nor governor. Whatever he was, it should be explained in the first paragraph of the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.41.197.108 (talk) 20:41, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a paragraph to the lead which explains what he actually did -- which was to create and run public authorities. But the question "Who was this guy and how did he hold so much power?" is the central conundrum of Moses and the very thing that made him remarkable. The precise answer to the question is complicated and subject to some dispute--Dbratland (talk) 22:29, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I still don't see what was his job. "Mastermind" works for somebody who did his work by occupying a series of positions. E.g., Einstein was a patent examiner; later he became a student, a lecturer, a professor and so on. And even for Einstein, you could still say, in one phrase, "he was a physicist". Maybe you know Moses well, but I (and many others) don't and don't want to know more than needed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.41.197.108 (talk) 19:34, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you insist you have to be given a simple phrase that tells us what his "job" was, you're  missing the point. Moses was part of a generation of leaders who wielded enormous power through unconventional and (allegedly) illegal or corrupt means. He often issued marching orders to politicians who technically were above him the the job hierarchy, yet how had to obey because of Moses's informal network of favors, patronage, threats and blackmail. It's complicated.One key is to follow the link to "Public authority" aka Public-benefit corporation and to New York state public-benefit corporations. They are strange, quasi-governmental entities that are a part of everyday life in New York yet alien to many outside that state. He started with the Triborough Bridge Authority over which he held "tight control". On paper his job title was merely Chairman of the Board of that Authority, but in fact he was much more.<P>If Wikipedia tried to dumb all that complexity down into a simple "job title", it would mislead the reader. It's like saying electric current works just like water flowing through a pipe: sure, it's simple and easy to say, but actually it's false. If the reader of this article is left scratching their head at the mystery of what Moses did, that's good, because that means they are starting to get it. Moses was something of a mystery, and experts disagree about him. As Albert Einstein said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." --Dbratland (talk) 21:08, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article needs a simple phrase that tells us what his job was, in the introduction.  (And yes, electric current does behave just like water flowing through a pipe.  The equations are interchangeable.)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.64.200 (talk) 14:02, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess you didn't read all the way down to Limits of the analogy. If you've got a source that states what his job was, cite it. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 14:56, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

text: I believe the appropriate term would be "infrastructure czar" Noamthinks (talk) 03:08, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: I don't get it

message: Below sections contained or consisted of unsourced material that had been tagged long-term. Please feel free to reincorporate this material into the article with proper referencing. Doniago (talk) 13:10, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced Material 

message: I reverted this edit from the lead because it violates WP:PEACOCK. Praising Moses for his ingenuity, creating "infrastructure quickly and efficiently" and "streamlining" the public comment process is a violation of WP:NPOV. Having no public comment whatsoever is not "streamlining", it is "bypassing" and so the word bypassing is kept. Removing the facts that he was unelected, and that NY has a disproportionate number of public benefit corporations is misleading as well. It's important to state the fact that what Moses did was unusual by the standards of how other US states functioned. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:07, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The first paragraph looks OK right now.  I would use the next two paragraphs of the lede to describe his career in neutral terms, and perhaps begin the fourth, "Although never elected to public office, Moses had a profound influence .."  Something like that.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:48, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverted peacockery from lead. 

message: This article constitutes not much else perfidious advertisement for the works of Robert Moses. Criticism is a mere afterthought in this article. He wrecked the lives of 100.000s, a mayor won an election with a campaign promising to put a halt to Moses. Many think, it was Moses' work that helped essentially eroding NYC's tax base so that it ended up nigh bankrupt. These are just a few thoughts on the issue. The usual set of ill willed WP gangsters - not much else they are - seem to be happy to tossing themselves off to the detriment of well researched content. I am just revolted. 121.216.197.134 (talk) 16:47, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perfidious Advertisement 

message: This Statement:
::His building of expressways hindered the proposed New York City Subway expansion in the 1930s, because the parkways and expressways that were built served, at least to some extent, the purpose of the planned subway lines.
Should be cited to a responsible source or be removed. Caro and other primary-source researchers (to my knowledge) never asserted anything like this.
Assuming the statement means that subway money was limited because of Moses was spending it all (the usual claim), that is a tenuous argument.
In the late 20s / early 1930s Moses was commissioner of the Long Island State Park Commissionhttp://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/393591/Robert-Moses and spent much of his time building Jones Beach and the South State Parkway -- this was never in competition with the subway system
And while by 1931 Moses was building the Triboro Bridge (that did compete with subways), the Triboro was funded by federal new deal moneyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triborough_Bridge and loans. Roughly m of the approximately  million spent on the bridge was federal (Caro, The Power Broker, pg 387). This Federal money would not be available for the then private IRT or BRT until 1936.http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/History_of_the_Independent_Subway
If the statement means that people were uninterested in building subways because roads were already built -- that statement certainly needs support because every subway system on earth was built because surface land was already covered with roads!
There is some evidence that the proliferation of roads may have led to a reduction in fare-revenues, which could be claimed led to losses, which could be claimed led to less construction. But this evidence is from earlier in the century (circa 1915, when cars first become widely available). And the assertion that the drop in fare-revenue led to less subway construction is a big jump that should be cited.
24.90.73.152 (talk) 21:57, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree with this anonymous IP. There were in fact other subway lines built during his time in power between the 1930s and 1960s, in spite of the claims made by Robert Caro. The Culver Ramp wasn't the only one. Just look at the time lines for many of the others. ---------User:DanTD (talk)  04:39, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moses and Subways 

message: The following was in its own section in the main article. I've never really seen anything like it in other articles, so I'm moving it here for discussion on what to do.
;Sources
* "Moses is racist because of his designs where the highway passed through Harlem."
* "That Moses was highhanded, racist and contemptuous of the poor draws no argument even from the most ardent revisionists. But his grand vision and iron will, they say, seeded New York with highways, parks, swimming pools and cultural halls, from the Belt Parkway to Lincoln Center, and thus allowed the modern city to flower."
Comments? LHMask me a question 06:15, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strangely formatted "Sources" section 

message: Is there really no way we can expand the article between the section of Caro's biography and his death? Does no one have any more details of those seven years? That's quite a few years unaccounted for... Nogoodnms (talk) 21:14, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post Power-Broker Information... 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the fourth episode of Amazon's 'Marvelous Mrs Maisel' Midge speaks at a protest for a road Robert Moses wants to build across a park.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:281:C501:3BC9:F1E0:80F0:DE2A:7891 (talk) 18:59, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That was the Lower Manhattan Expressway, which would've not only linked Interstate 78 to some of it's auxiliary routes, but connected to the Bushwick and Nassau Expressways. Actually this aspect of the series was the one thing that turned me off to it. -------User:DanTD (talk)  04:50, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

text: You'd need an independent source that's discussed it, per WP:IPCV. DonIago (talk) 14:25, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pop culture  

message: I'm considering working on this page to re-organize the information in a helpful manner and expand on Moses' impact on communities of color. People have mentioned his neglect and hostility towards public transit. Moses generally furthered white interests and had a lasting impact on the built environment of NYC which should be acknowledged here. Check out my user page for more info and sources I'd use, and comment on my talk page if you have any questions/comments. Emilyp99 (talk) 23:00, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible revisions 

message: In the "Early life and rise to power" section, the statement is made that "Moses was a great political talent who demonstrated great skill when constructing his roads, bridges, playgrounds, parks, and housing projects." It has a reference, but that reference is an essay titled, "The Myth of the Master Builder: "Robert Moses, New York, and the Dynamics of Metropolitan Development Since World War II" I don't have full access to it, but it seems that the central tenant of that essay is the blurb I say says that his legacy as a master builder is "revisionist" and that "magnify [his] influence". 
45.49.174.133 (talk) 21:57, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opinion offered unsupported by reference 

message: There is no mention of Moses' "slum clearance" or Title I program in this article. In my opinion Moses' his displacement of well over 200,000 New Yorkers should be in the opening paragraph. Personally, I see many similarities to the Trail of Tears, but for lower income New Yorkers. This program, and the destruction of lives at Moses' discretion is the main focus of the third volume of The Power Broker.
Here's a good summary of the Title I program and Moses' involvement with it
http://www.tenant.net/Community/history/hist04c.html  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.167.59.8 (talk) 16:37, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is an important omission and should indeed be addressed. I'm going to look into this. Not sure if anyone is still super active on this page... Cleopatran Apocalypse (talk) 12:44, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title I, aka "slum clearance" 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Robert Moses's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "NYSP_attendance":
From Heckscher State Park: 
From Robert Moses State Park – Thousand Islands: 
From Robert Moses State Park: 
From Cold Spring Harbor State Park: 
From Jones Beach State Park: 
From Belmont Lake State Park: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 18:07, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Robert Moses]]