Talk:Display motion blur

message: I've stepped up to the plate to reword/rewrite portions of the article.  I have worked in the home theater industry for multiple manufacturers  and over time, I have been researching many excellent references that also relate to this topic .  There was a lot of Europe-specific terminology ("100Hz") so I've genericized it somewhat. I removed weasel words, phrases, and controversial statements and instead linked to references. I've rearranged paragraphs (moved the second/third paragraphs to the "Causes" section), and renamed to generic titles ("100Hz" renamed to "Motion Interpolation"), and added some additional, new references, removed many dead links with replacements found, slimmed down the motion interpolation section (because there's already a separate article; extra material can be added there instead).   I think most will agree that most of my changes are beneficial.  If I made errors, please feel free to point them out specifically, line item by item.  Let's be cautious to proceed in order to make sure not to "throw the baby out with the bath water" in a manner of speaking -- some references can be further improved, pointing out any potential weasel words/phrases, etc.  This isn't all perfect, but a big improvement.  Mdrejhon (talk) 21:16, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrites by Mark Rejhon

message: ===Wrong article title? [fixed]===
I can't help noticing that of the six factors itemized in the opening of this article, only one really has much of a connection to HDTV.  LCDs, 3:2 pulldown, telecine lag, and intentional CGI motion blur all predate HDTV.Algr (talk) 07:41, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Moved to "Display motion blur" because that has more google search results (if you use a quoted search with the quotation marks, "display motion blur" versus "hdtv blur").  I kept a redirect HDTV blur, LCD blur, and LCD motion blur, which all now redirect to this article.  I added a sentence saying that the introduction of digital technologies (e.g. compression artifact blur), and panel technologies (e.g. LCD), created additional motion blur during the modern HDTV era. Mdrejhon (talk) 21:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Fixed.  I've added citations to an additional paper.  Excellent reference is page 3 of  which explains eye(fovea)-tracking based motion blur on sample and hold technologies. In addition, I already noticed one of the other references already explains this too. So two references, now it appears to be covered.  That said, let's remain all professional (all sides please) Mdrejhon (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Strengthened even further. There's now at least four academic citations that explains eye-tracking based motion blur (retinal blurring), and how it's a completely separate motion blurring factor than LCD pixel response speed.  Having worked in the home theater industry before, I also personally agree with the academic assessments, including some informal tests I've done personally. Mdrejhon (talk) 17:28, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Fixed Items

message: I can't help noticing that of the six factors itemized in the opening of this article, only one really has much of a connection to HDTV.  LCDs, 3:2 pulldown, telecine lag, and intentional CGI motion blur all predate HDTV.Algr (talk) 07:41, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Moved to "Display motion blur" because that has more google search results (if you use a quoted search with the quotation marks, "display motion blur" versus "hdtv blur").  I kept a redirect HDTV blur, LCD blur, and LCD motion blur, which all now redirect to this article.  I added a sentence saying that the introduction of digital technologies (e.g. compression artifact blur), and panel technologies (e.g. LCD), created additional motion blur during the modern HDTV era. Mdrejhon (talk) 21:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong article title? [fixed]

message: It's not effects that cause retinal blurring.  It is "sample and hold display technology" that causes retinal blurring.
Leaving sample and hold, and changing the frequency of updating to double, halves the effect of retinal blurring due to eye tracking moving objects.  It's just that simple.  Again, prove to me that you understand retinal blurring, and we can move on.  You said poynton doesn't make claims about a linear relationship between hold time and amount of retinal blurring due to eye tracking, but he explains it very clearly.  And in fact, leaving sample and hold and doubling framerate halves retinal blurring.
Since you're the logic nazi, let's assume that I am wrong, and I will demonstrate it's absurd.
Retinal blurring is the result of the pixels being on while your eye sweeps past an image.
If there isn't a linear relationship between the hold time period and the amount of retinal blur, then the relationship would be nonlinear.  So what nonlinear relationship would it be?  Of course it's absurd to believe that the reduction in retinal blur would be non-linear to the hold time, therefore it is proven.
Is that enough of a proof for you?  I suspect the problem is that you simply don't understand retinal blurring or you simply refuse to believe it exists somehow.  It's a very subtle effect and something that very few people understand.  But that doesn't negate it's existence or comprehension of it's existence by people who understand it.  Ahigh 03:45, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.  I've added citations to an additional paper.  Excellent reference is page 3 of  which explains eye(fovea)-tracking based motion blur on sample and hold technologies. In addition, I already noticed one of the other references already explains this too. So two references, now it appears to be covered.  That said, let's remain all professional (all sides please) Mdrejhon (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Strengthened even further. There's now at least four academic citations that explains eye-tracking based motion blur (retinal blurring), and how it's a completely separate motion blurring factor than LCD pixel response speed.  Having worked in the home theater industry before, I also personally agree with the academic assessments, including some informal tests I've done personally. Mdrejhon (talk) 17:28, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: retinal blurring [fixed]

message: I was wondering if there was a source that mentioned why 120 Hz technology added to lag. I assume it's simply because it has to process an extra frame, every frame. It doesn't just duplicate the original frame? So a 120 Hz TV would actually be a bad idea when attempting to eliminate lag? A lot of clueless sales people would try to say the opposite. One looking for a TV for video games should stay away from 120 Hz TVs? There is an extraordinary amount of confusion about this, and Wikipedia could clear things up.--SkiDragon 05:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Having worked in the home theater industry, motion interpolation definitely adds to lag, but I agree a citation to papers needs to be added by someone. Mdrejhon (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  120 Hz adds to lag? 

message: LG has a number of displays that refresh at a rate of 600Hz. 600 is divided by 24, 25, 30, 50, 60, just about any fps. Now I'm not familiar with the technicalities so I'm expecting someone to read this and find it interesting enough to update the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laserscout (talk • contribs) 00:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree that some info should be included.  However, google "plasma temporal dithering" which complicates this topic somewhat.  We need some good citations, somebody (or myself) will need to hunt this down.  The 600Hz subfield (and 720Hz) rate of plasma actually does multiple refreshes of the same plasma image per refresh.  In many cases, there's no motion-interpolated information, so it's just simple repeated refreshes of temporally-dithered versions of the same frame.  However, many plasmas do add some black period between the temporally-dithered subfields, to improve motion much better than LCD does.  The actual subfield refresh is not necessarily 1/600sec at 600 times per second, and not based on 600 distinct images per second, so the motion is not as smooth as a theoretical "600Hz motion interpolation".  It can be a surge of multiple temporally-dithered refreshes, followed by a black period.  If the uninterrupted black period (period without pixel pulses) is only 50% of a refresh, it'll be similiar to an LCD with a strobed backlight that's dark 50% of the time.  Temporal dithering is simply well-calculated pixel pulses (also the source of "noise" in plasmas, especially in dark colors on cheaper plasmas).  There's discussion in Internet forums (AVSFORUM, etc) but forum threads aren't appropriate to be linked from Wikipedia, as far as I know.   I'll try to find some real citations in regards to plasma subfield rate in relationship to motion blur.  Good google search include "temporal dithering", which is what plasmas do, and temporal dithering doesn't necessarily enhance motion at all, unless the temporal dithering pattern is intentionally  adjusted to also do this (e.g. motion interpolation, or black frames) Mdrejhon (talk) 22:14, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  plasma 600Hz subfield rate 

message: ===50Hz===
Are the problems greater or lesser at 50Hz? (well, obviously there isn't the 3:2 pulldown problem - but what about the other factors?) zoney  ♣ talk 15:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd deem this 50Hz discussion unrelated to the article.  It is, however, a combined motion interpolation benefit/flicker reduction benefit if you're using a flickery display technology (e.g. CRT) -- when doing 50Hz->100Hz motion interpolation on a CRT, as an example.  (Or LCD with a strobed backlight) Mdrejhon (talk) 00:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Viewing angles is also a disadvantage of some LCD's.  Some are better than others, some are worse than others.  From my understanding, some laser based displays could have better viewing angles than others, so I suggest this is an external, separate factor unrelated to display motion blur, but I'm still interested in seeing this information update a different (appropriate) Wikipedia article which could be wiki'd to, from this article. There must already be a Wikipedia article about viewing angles of various technolgoies. Mdrejhon (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

text: My view, is this is simply an interpretation of "as stable as CRT" which is potentially confusing -- BENQ really meant "LCD with stable and clear motion similiar to a CRT", then BENQ is more accurate, especially if BENQ is using very short strobes for their backlight.  Some links to academic papers about strobed/scanning backlights can be found at , and some of these references show that shorter strobes leads to less motion blur, and this is also taken advantage of the very newest "960" displays (e.g. Samsung Clear Motion 960, EliteLcdHDTV.com, etc).   Alas, the statements is subject to potential misinterpretation.  I've edited the article to focus references more directly on the academic papers instead. Mdrejhon (talk) 22:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

text: I'd love an LCD TV (but NOT a computer monitor) that flashed each image for a small fraction of the frame duration. This is what a CRT effectively does, and it results in much less motion blur when the viewer's eyes are following a moving object. This is especially noticeable on video games that run at 60Hz. Since this trades off reduced motion blur for increased eyestrain, it's not suitable for computer displays; for that, current LCDs are superior to CRTs. 66.90.216.158 (talk) 00:06, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments Beyond Scope Of Article

message: Are the problems greater or lesser at 50Hz? (well, obviously there isn't the 3:2 pulldown problem - but what about the other factors?) zoney  ♣ talk 15:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd deem this 50Hz discussion unrelated to the article.  It is, however, a combined motion interpolation benefit/flicker reduction benefit if you're using a flickery display technology (e.g. CRT) -- when doing 50Hz->100Hz motion interpolation on a CRT, as an example.  (Or LCD with a strobed backlight) Mdrejhon (talk) 00:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: 50Hz

message: After seeing the LaserVue set, I was disappointed by the extreme loss of viewing angles.  I have not yet evaluated the set for motion sharpness, but my personal interest in the set went way down after seeing one first-hand. Ahigh
:Viewing angles is also a disadvantage of some LCD's.  Some are better than others, some are worse than others.  From my understanding, some laser based displays could have better viewing angles than others, so I suggest this is an external, separate factor unrelated to display motion blur, but I'm still interested in seeing this information update a different (appropriate) Wikipedia article which could be wiki'd to, from this article. There must already be a Wikipedia article about viewing angles of various technolgoies. Mdrejhon (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs updating since introduction of LaserVue 

message: Making an LCD flicker on purpose = "as stable as a CRT"? Well, that's probably true from a purely objective perspective, but it's a very weaselly way of saying they've made it LESS stable than it already was. I moved from CRT to LCD as soon as I could afford it, thanks to the much greater image stability and reduction of flicker. A slight, probably psychosomatic or biologically-derived bit of blurring is far preferable to the eyestrain and headaches a constant scanning strobe produces.
Save us from insane marketing gibberish, someone... 193.63.174.10 (talk) 10:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: My view, is this is simply an interpretation of "as stable as CRT" which is potentially confusing -- BENQ really meant "LCD with stable and clear motion similiar to a CRT", then BENQ is more accurate, especially if BENQ is using very short strobes for their backlight.  Some links to academic papers about strobed/scanning backlights can be found at , and some of these references show that shorter strobes leads to less motion blur, and this is also taken advantage of the very newest "960" displays (e.g. Samsung Clear Motion 960, EliteLcdHDTV.com, etc).   Alas, the statements is subject to potential misinterpretation.  I've edited the article to focus references more directly on the academic papers instead. Mdrejhon (talk) 22:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

text: I'd love an LCD TV (but NOT a computer monitor) that flashed each image for a small fraction of the frame duration. This is what a CRT effectively does, and it results in much less motion blur when the viewer's eyes are following a moving object. This is especially noticeable on video games that run at 60Hz. Since this trades off reduced motion blur for increased eyestrain, it's not suitable for computer displays; for that, current LCDs are superior to CRTs. 66.90.216.158 (talk) 00:06, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  what the heck is BenQ on about? 

message: Why does the article include causes that are not causes of motion blur, or are not caused by characteristics of the display?
Regarding "Resolution resampling", the article even says "not a motion blur", so what is it doing in an article about motion blur?
Regarding "Lower camera shutter speeds", the article says that the blur is created during the filming process, not by the display.
And are deinterlacing and compression artefacts unique to flat panel displays, as the article seems to suggest, since the introduction specifically refers to those kinds of displays only?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.150.29.106 (talk) 14:57, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of causes is misleading 

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