Talk:Sonic X-treme

message: I've noticed that the edit of this page (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sonic_X-treme&oldid=1044036565) appears to have changed the Director of the game to a keyboard mash of some kind ("HTRHYTYRY"). This should probably be changed.
--Tomrow (talk) 07:55, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It was changed already twice, and next time you see vandalism, just "undo" or "rollback" it on the spot. This is a project everybody can correct. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:55, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism? 

message: I've learned that the new Sonic the Hedgehog Encyclo-speed-ia reveals that some of Sonic X-treme sprites ended up being repurposed for 1996's smash hit Sonic Schoolhouse. I don't have the encyclopedia to verify it, but it should definitely be added to the article once we have the page number and passage. JOEBRO64 04:10, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I never saw this until now. That's wild, I'd never heard of this before. I hope someone gets a hold of it someday, as that sounds pretty interesting. Sergecross73 msg me 16:42, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  New info 

message: Recently, Naka said he was unaware of X-treme development and denied being a factor in its cancellation. I'm not sure how to incorporate this in the article (it's a strange development and contradicts what Senn has claimed) but I think it might be worth mentioning. (It doesn't appear to have been picked up by outside sources, but directly citing Naka's Twitter should be acceptable per WP:TWITTER.) JOEBRO64 18:16, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't touch it tbh - the statements aren't really strong or revealing enough and citing Twitter is always a bit flimsy, even for official accounts etc. If a RS covers it then I think it'd be OK to throw in. Popcornfud (talk) 21:23, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I'm leaning towards this too. Naka kinda feels like he's in disgruntled, "I'm going to say whatever I want" phase after his troubles with Square and Sega. I think there's also a bit a of a disparity considering the time that passed and who was involved too. Let's say some young teen meets Taylor Swift. That teen may remember every second of that 5 minute exchange for the rest of their life. Meanwhile, ask T Swift about that exchange 20 years later, and her response may very well be "I don't remember that at all" because they were just one in a million of those sorts of exchanges. A bit extreme of an example, but it still applies - I'd trust the words of these minor devs about Naka back in the day more than a thoughtless tweet Naka makes decades later. Sergecross73 msg me 23:33, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean I clearly said might, not that it should; I mainly just posted it here for the record. JOEBRO64 09:44, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't mean to suggest it was a bad call on your part. It was a reasonable proposal, and I find it interesting that he said that. I thought about maybe trying to wedge it in there somewhere. But unless he keeps bringing the point up, I just do t know if we should try to rewrite the narrative here to a casual tweet he probably made without much thought. Sergecross73 msg me 12:47, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I’m honestly of the opinion that because so much of this story is told anecdotally through Wallis and Senn, and a bit through Naka, that what we really have is a story told by unreliable narrators. As such, we have to treat it accordingly.  How is Naka “unaware” of X-treme’s development when in another anecdote he recalls being relieved that it was cancelled?  Red Phoenix talk 17:38, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I find it hard to believe that, after the completion of Sonic and Knuckles in 1994, he remained a Sega employee who had no idea what the company was doing with the franchise a mere year later. I think we're either taking him too literally or it's a translation/language barrier issue. He may have just meant more of a "I wasn't developing that game so I don't know what was going on with it" type sentiment. Sergecross73 msg me 18:05, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I maybe could believe Naka not knowing about X-treme in particular if he'd only seen the development when it was on the 32X; given that he was working on Nights at the time, I think it's somewhat possible he wasn't aware the project made it to the Saturn (and feeling relief that it was canceled doesn't necessarily mean he knew about it when it was in development) and the story about him denying the use of the Nights engine is far more mundane than Senn relates. But who knows; as Red said, basically everyone here is an unreliable narrator. It's important to remember that people often remember things differently. It's not uncommon for developers to have wildly conflicting stories about the development of their games, a crystal clear example being the Michael Jackson Sonic 3 conundrum. JOEBRO64 20:22, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to add on, since I’m under the impression that Joebro is very familiar with Senn’s account and I’m very familiar with that of Wallis, that Wallis said the exact same thing about Naka threatening to quit Sega if the Nights engine was used.  This could have simply been a narrative being pushed at STI for all we know, but both of the main sources on the game’s development do agree on this. Red Phoenix talk< Red Phoenix talk 00:23, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I found an interview with Senn where he says "" (Emphasis mine.) So it sounds he doesn't really know if the story is true and it thus originates with Wallis. RSs haven't picked up on Naka's denial (yet) so I think the best course of action would be to explicitly attribute the anecdote to Wallis, since it's in dispute. JOEBRO64 10:46, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

text: Just chiming in to note that while Naka definitely has his own credibility problems (and many people who have worked with him have described him as personally abrasive), the 2011 "relief" quote does not on its face contradict anything in Naka's 2022 tweets: "With regards to X-Treme, I'm not really sure on the exact details of why it was cut short, but from looking at how it was going, it wasn't looking very good from my perspective. So I felt relief when I heard it was cancelled." [emphasis added].TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 07:07, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Yuji Naka tidbit 

message: The storyline described here is incorrect, the actual story was that Robotnik rebuilt the Death Egg to be larger than Sonic’s planet and it’s size threatened to destroy it and Sonic had to stop him before the world collapses. Could you change that part please. Sammyboy08 (talk) 15:20, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: All content on Wikipedia needs a source, and this is a Featured Article - the highest quality rating an article can have. You need to be more careful with your additions. Your wording is rambling and you link to articles that dont make sense. But step one is definitely finding a reliable source that verifies this. Sergecross73 msg me 15:40, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The thing is with X-treme is that it seemingly never had a set plot; I know that when Yasuhara was brought in at the last minute to help out, he planned to do away with the Boobowski storyline and introduced one that more explicitly tied the game to the Genesis ones. The thing is, the Boobowski storyline was the one that Sega was promoting by the time the game was canceled and thus is the one reflected in reliable sources, so I think it should stay. I know there were quite a few story drafts (one based on SatAM, Yasuhara's draft, and a few others I don't remember off the top of my head) but RS coverage of X-treme development is unfortunately limited in certain areas (such as the story and Yasuhara's involvement). JOEBRO64 20:30, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and assumed this was the case with the level of work and research that's already been done on this game. I'm open to being proven wrong, but it's got to be a reliable source, not something from the fansites or a Twitter user or anything iffy like that. Sergecross73 msg me 20:39, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Actual storyline