Talk:Deus Ex (video game)/Archive 5

message: This section can probably be condensed into #Themes, but it needs to be linted for "fans noticed that X is similar to Y!" stuff. For example, Ambrosia could be a reference to something else that is referencing the drink of the gods, or it could just be a name that sounds nice.
Right now, it's just a list of things fans think might be intentional parallels (much like the rest of the sections tagged ), instead of things that reliable sources have described as parallels. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've temporarily restored the section, only to preserve the verifiable information so that it can be moved into the article as prose, if possible.  We're not on a deadline here; if the article looks iffy for a while as information is reorganized and merged, so be it.  I'd rather have a complete and informative article 6 months from now than a properly formatted, yet terse and topical article next week. -- Y|yukichigai 18:23, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I figured it'd be a useful as part of a rewrite, so that's why I tagged it as OR and moved it somewhere relevant. I'm not sure who removed it. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 10:18, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literary and popular culture references 

message: This article is going to need some work before it reaches GA. 
* The plot section is the major issue at hand. The plot (Story) heading should contain three subections: Setting, Characters, and Story (or Plot). The most well-sourced "real world parallels" can go into the setting section (only a few though, no five paragraph disertations; any really detailed concepts can go into respective areas of the merged lists), with perhaps a sentence introducing them in the lead section of the article. 
* Let's remove the huge list of pop culture references trivia. If that information can be cited, provide an external link; otherwise, it's OR or trivial. Likewise, remove the trivia section.
* Gameplay should be one section as of now.
* Awards list needs to be integrated into the reception and criticism section (not all of them, just the key ones that relate to sites you are selecting to cite criticism from. The rest need to be axed.). Speaking of the reception and criticism section, after integrating the awards, it's a good idea to add some perspectives.
* Many cases of biased writing ("due to its popularity" and "intriguing story" are classic examples).
* Academic writing as opposed to succinct writing in areas ("a variety of different ways", "various concepts", stuff like that).
From personal experience, Final Fantasy VIII or Final Fantasy X-2 are probably the best models to follow. References are fine for GA-level, except for those OR issues discussed. — Deckiller 02:42, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Though some of your smaller suggestions are obviously correct (regarding bias, academic writing, etc.), again I must ask, given your ignorance of the subject, why you consider yourself qualified to be given such broad suggestions on other key issues, such as gameplay. It is not very wise to infer based on your experience with other games what is best for this particular article. -- Grandpafootsoldier 03:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, all my comments were organizational based; in other words, suggestions that have nothing to do with the actual content of the article. I stand by my suggestions. — Deckiller 03:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but organization often has a lot to do with how the content is best presented. Actually my main beef was in regard to your claim that "Gameplay should be one section as of now", which I don't really think is the best suggestion, as the gameplay in Deus Ex is quite complicated and warrants extra explanation. -- Grandpafootsoldier 03:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why I used the term 'as of now'. Once the information is expanded, then you should determine if suborganization is needed. — Deckiller 03:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

text: In looking at the character information from the series, it might be possible to combine the characters section with either the setting or plot sections (depending on how you word the information or how you think it best fits in). Or, you can keep a seperate characters section, describing the main protagonists and antagonists of your story. I see a lot of instances of "setting and characters, plot" in lieu of "setting, characters, plot". However, this is only really done when little information available on how the characters were developed (designer interviews, etc). If you can find such information, you should be able to shape a character section with ease. — Deckiller 03:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really think it is necessary to try to combine all character related pages with the plot section at this point. The main priority is to try to bring the main page up to a higher standard and I don't really think adding a "characters" section is necessary to that end. Overall, I am more inclined to think your second suggestion is the best, however. If you would like to see the basic kind of organization I was going for for this game, check out the Half-Life 2 page. -- Grandpafootsoldier 03:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Half-Life 2 has a ton of unnecessary, crufty subarticles that we just don't need here. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, what I meant by a characters section was a section providing an overview of the main protagonists/antagonists, and some information on how the characters were created (the same info should be used in the setting). A list of characters in a seperate subarticle seems fine to me in this case. — Deckiller 03:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't talking about its peripheral articles AMIB, I was referring to the main HL2 article. Anyway I have already heard your position, so there was no need to repeat it yet again. You just always have to get the last word in don't you? - Grandpafootsoldier 03:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Issues

message: I took a screenshot of the first-person view of Deus Ex:
:image:DeusEx 2006-10-03 18-31-45-56.gif
Should we use it for the article? ThunderPower 22:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deus Ex first-person view screenshot 

message: It might be worth double-checking the info on the missing World Trade Centre towers.  I distinctly recall playing this game in early 2001 and the towers were visible on the skyline.  After the events of September 11 a patch was released which fixed a number of annoying bugs and also removed the towers from the skyline.  Of course, I don't have an original copy to double-check that myself and just me saying "hey, I remember X" is probably not authoritive enough for an encyclopedia.  --BenM 11:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The version I have, the Game of The Year edition, doesn't have the towers, and it is dated June 2001.--Drat (Talk) 11:48, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, my version doesn't have them as well.--ZFGokuSSJ1 12:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I still have the original one as well, will check later, but AFAIR no towers were there. And GOTY also came out before Sep.2001. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 15:35, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I got a copy of Deus Ex bundled with a Soundblaster about 4 months after the game's release.  The Twin Towers are not visible in that version, un-patched and patched. -- Y|yukichigai 18:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I recall that in an interview, one of the Deus Ex developers commented that the twin towers were left out of the skybox texture because of memory limitations in the Unreal engine. The in-game rationale is that they were destroyed in a terrorist attack before the events of the game. Spooky, since the game was released before 9/11 Qifan 19:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing WTC towers 

message: I've put in the early leg-work on this section, providing at least a starting point for what I hope is a larger, more complete comparison and contrast. I'm searching for sourced statements, hopefully from the developers as they explain why they included cuch and such element while leaving others out. This is by no means a complete start, but it's a big leap from where things were when I started on the page. Consequentially 02:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: -Looks good! -ZFGokuSSJ1 02:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FPS/RPG conventions 

message: Can anyone find that 1up interview? I've searched the site, and tried using parts of the quote in Google search, and the quote has only turned up on Wikipedia and its mirrors. As the quote is still not sourced after several months, I'm removing it.--Drat (Talk) 08:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warren Spector's quote about the name 

message: I think it would be rather odd to end the article with the soundtrack section... Should we add a 'Post-release life' section (or something similar)? -ZFGokuSSJ1 02:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, a "See also" section might be preferable is this case. -- Grandpafootsoldier 03:40, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For more information on this, please view WP:LAYOUT, WP:BETTER and WP:STYLE. These pages provide detail information on this. --Siva1979Talk to me 19:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ending the article