Talk:Quivira

message: I have an old spanish map showing Quivira as being near to either Utah Lake or the Great Salt Lake in Utah. Also some reference in a book called "The Kingdom of New Spain" by Pedro Alonso O'Crouley from 1774. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dswkamp (talk • contribs) 23 July 2006.
Coronado's surname is Vázquez, not "Vásquez". As his article displays, in fact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_V%C3%A1zquez_de_Coronado). "Vásquez" is an incorrect spelling originated in a South-American overcorrection of the z pronunciation of the letter s common in Southern Spain. --217.127.191.232 (talk) 07:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quivira in Utah 

message: Upon further research, I can't find any reliable source stating that the names "Cibola" or "Quivira" were ever recorded before 1539, contrary to what this article had until now.  The mythical Seven Cities of Gold should be a separate topic, since the only name I can find applied to them before that is Antilia.  In 1539, the Spanish started looking for the rumored "seven cities of gold" called Cibola, but when they found te Zuni country, which all the sources agree was actually called "Cibola", they were not of gold, but adobe pueblos.  While among the pueblos, Coronado first heard of Quivira from an Indian called "The Turk", who lied and said there was a lot of gold there, but on going there, he found none. There is enough material on all three subjects to make 3 articles, and no good reason to lump them all together. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 22:40, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There's been no response to my proposal to split the article, so I am going to be making some changes very soon.  There are 3 topics here:
* 1) The Seven Cities of Gold, a European legend dating to the Middle Ages
* 2) Cibola, a toponym first recorded in 1539, of Native American origin
* 3) Quivira, a toponym first recorded in 1540, of Native American origin
Cibola and Quivira were not exactly considered two of the Seven cities. "Cibola" in itself was rumored to be composed of the seven cities of gold, and when the Spaniards got there they indeed found it included seven settlements (Zuni), but not of gold.  Then Coronado heard from "the Turk" that there was plenty of gold in Quivira, but when he finally got there, could not find the gold.  
The European legend is really the same as that of Antilia, so that part of this article should be merged there, with due mention and link from the other articles emerging from this split.  Cibola is really the same as Zuni-Cibola Complex, so that part of this article should be merged there.  That only leaves the parts about Quivira, so the remnant of this article should be returned to simply Quivira.  So in clearing up this confusion, there will not be any actual new articles created; I will simply be splitting some parts off to Antilia and Zuni-Cibola Complex, then renaming the remnant as Quivira. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 12:57, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Just noting due to your renaming that Cibola is currently a disambiguation page which may need amending; and noting also that Cibola, period, is not necessarily the same thing as the Zuni-Cibola Complex, i.e. the legendary place is not proven to be the Zuni-Cibola Complex so may need a still-separate article.Skookum1 (talk) 14:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you ever read the primary sources of Coronado's expedition?  The idea that there was ever any other legendary Cibola besides the Zuni-Cibola complex seems to be a later popular misconception. It's quite clear that Coronado indeed reached the place called "Cibola" within a year of the name first being heard by them, and disproved the legendary gold, so there was no more "legend" after that, until popular fiction writers resurrected the name much later. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 14:59, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propose to split article into 3 

message: Ther's another explanation for the controversial reference to 1150. In c.1150 the Northern African geographer al-Idrisi in a book for the Franco-Norman king Roger II of Sicily reported that 8 Andalusian Muslim sailors or adventurers from Lisbon reached a "stinky sea" (the Sargasso Sea?) in the North Atlantic Ocean. See the article Guanches for further reference, to be precise the paragraph by the title of "Before the Spanish Conquest". The Portuguese (with English support) had taken Muslim Lisbon in 1147.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 (talk) 11:06, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Muhammad al-Idrisi]] 

message: See Romance (genre).According to the Spaniard writers Fernando Martínez Laínez and Carlos Canales Torres (book 'Banderas lejanas', Edaf, 2009, page 60), the legend of the 7 bishops making away from the Muslim conquest of Visigoth Hispania appears for the first time in 'Amadis of Gaula', a chivalry romance from the 14th century - and highly popular- and printed in 1508. 'Banderas lejanas' is a book on the Spaniard explorers and military in the current USA from the 1500s to the 1820s.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 (talk) 11:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chivalric Romance: [[Amadis de Gaula]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In William K. Hartmann's historic novel Cities of Gold, he identifies Quivira as the name of the buffalo in one of the Pueblo languages? I think this was from Fray Marcos de Niza's correspondence with the Viceroy, though it's not like a novel is indexed. But Hartmann's definitely read all the historic literature, including some pretty obscure stuff. For instance, he has harsh words for Carl O. Sauer on the subject of Fray Marcos's veracity re what Estevanico called "Quivira," which turned out to be one of the historic pueblos of modern Zuni. Anyway, I'll look into this a bit, and if I find a verifiable cite, I'll add it. --Pete Tillman (talk) 22:53, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the name of Quivira?