Talk:Iakovos Nafpliotis

message: The article that appears on "analogion.com" is the one originally written by the author of this article, Georgios K. MICHALAKIS (otherwise known as "GKM") —Preceding unsigned comment added by G michalakis (talk • contribs) 
:Unfortunately, there are two issues with that:
:1. We have no way of verifying that you are indeed the original author. While I believe you, that's not sufficient in case Wikipedia was to be sued for copyright violations. 
:2. Even if you are the original author, it is not clear you are the copyright holder. The copyright statement for the site says "(c) analogion.com, 2005-2008" and the names associated with the site are not yours. In many cases, work for hire become the copyright of the one paying, not the one writing. While I'm inclined to believe the site is just not diligent in presenting the proper copyright status, we have to go by what it says.
:A claim that it's been released on a Wikipedia talk page is not sufficient as there is no way to ensure that the person making the claim is an authorized agent of the copyright holder. It is unfortunate, but too many people are willing to lie and so we have to be more restrictive than that.
:In order for permission to be given, the original website needs to be modified to say released under the GFDL or specific permission to that affect needs to be sent to "permissions-en AT wikimedia DOT org" from an address that is identifiable as being authorized to provide such permission. 
:Instead of deleting it, I have marked it as a  which gives you a week to formalize the release.
:If you have any questions, please let me know. -- JLaTondre 15:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Based upon links provided to me on my talk page, I'm satisfied that User:G michalakis is the original author of the materials and still holds the copyright. As such, I'm removing the copyvio tag & restoring the content. -- JLaTondre 01:21, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Copy and Paste

message: I recommend to refer to some notes taken by Angelos Boudouris, translated into English by Dimitri Koubaroulis:
http://analogion.com/BoudourisMemoirs.html
He describes the conflict between Georgios Biolakis and Iakovos Nafpliotis as a rivalry between the school of Galata around Georgios Raidestinos II and the Old Patriarchal School of Iakovos' teacher Nikolaos Stoyianovitz, who already opposed to Georgios, because he sang according the Galatan school. I think that there is no need in an encyclopaedic article to identify stronger with the Patriarchal school of Iakovos Nafpliotis than even his student Angelos Boudouris who has at least described some unpleasant scenes between Nikolaos and Georgios. 
I prefer to mention no longer the Karas issue, I mean as a kind of criticism against this article, as it has sufficiently improved here. After the issue had been already discussed 4 years ago, Iakovos' opinion is quoted now according to the memory of Boudouris and the author added the interesting detail, that his students replaced Simon Karas and continued to document Iakovos' patriarchal style. I personally think that there are a lot of more interesting details in Boudouris book, which are worth to be mentioned here (quoted or summarized). You have the Greek original and you can even quote in both languages. Platonykiss (talk) 21:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing neutral point of view concerning the conflict between the Old Patriarchal and the Galatan School 

message: :Dear Mr Michalakis
:Just allow me to answer some of your questions which you asked me on your talk page, so that we do not talk without any exchange.
GKM: WHERE? Along with Nileas Kamarados? and what does Iakovos have to do with Kiltzanides or "exoteric" music? 
:Nothing at all! I just wondered about Iakovos' own attitude, because Angelos Boudouris wrote that Iakovos regarded a composition like Bereketis' Koinonikon oktaechon as not suitable for a liturgical performance (today most of the singers do, simply because of its length). I asked myself, why are there no recordings at all of Iakovos Nafpliotis' interpretations of Bereketis, while there are plenty of Konstantinos Pringos' interpretations. Pringos even composed liturgical compositions in the makamlar, long before Stanitsas and other protopsaltes of his generation did.
:Panagiotes Kiltzanides was closer to the Galata School and his theory which integrated the makamlar within the Oktoechos system, while Konstantinos the Protopsaltis simply supported Kiltzanides' edition of a kâr as a kind of exercise which memorized the seyirler of the different makamlar. The effect of this book and of the medium "modern psaltic notation" was, that plenty of psaltes started to think that they can learn now the makamlar. This would be a perfect example of this type of singers which you like to call "musicologists". Among dervishes, and there are as well Greek dervishes in Istanbul, this approach is certainly not acceptable. Nevertheless, the medium notation somehow promotes this kind of chauvinism. So maybe Kiltzanides' book fits better for certain articles about singers of the School of Galata than to the one about Iakovos Nafpliotis or about other singers of the Old Patriarchal School.
:I will try to follow your request for an article about Gregorios the Protopsaltes. It is indeed a gap here which is very urgent and important to be filled. Platonykiss (talk) 15:56, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kiltzanides' Method of Exoteric Music and the School of Galata 

message: GKM: παραλλαγή ("solfeggio") has NOTHING to do with the Papadic Octoechos.
According to the New Method you are right. According to the psaltic art you are wrong. I agree that an own article would be useful, but the current article solfeggio has certainly nothing to do with the Orthodox practice of parallage in any period, unless you insert a section about Chrysanthos, because this article is not just about the method taught at the Conservatoire de Paris (for the Guidonian solfeggio used in Western plainchant, please consult the article Guidonian hand). Right now I can offer you this link which treats the transition according to Chrysanthos. Platonykiss (talk) 20:08, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parallage 

message: You suggested two links for modern neume notation. The whole topic is still missing. According to my experience I recommend to write an own entry, despite that there is already an entry Neume, which is so far focussed on Latin square notation. But it would become too long, if you introduced there into Ekphonetic notation, Kontakarion, Theta, Chartres, Coislin, Old Armenian, Middle Byzantine, Kryuki, and Neobyzantine Notation (inlcuding all alternative neumes like the system of Lesbos), but different concepts as well as they had been developed recently. One separated article which treats all this different forms together (except ekphonetic), would be at least a start. Platonykiss (talk) 21:57, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article [[Byzantine Notation]] 

message: Just to get this article ready. I think a lot of traditional singers, not only musicologists, would subscribe this point view. There are plenty of publications, you might quote here.
As promised I leave it to you, but please allow me two suggestions: A. Lingas (1999) or the proceedings "Tradition and Innovation in Late- and Postbyzantine Liturgical Chant II" (see Alexandru, Troelsgård 2013), you can copy and paste the cite tags from my articles "Hagiopolitan" and "Papadic Octoechos" (please open the section "studies" by a click on "edit source" and you will find them).
If these authors are too academic for you, also Pelopides' publication of Chrysanthos' "Theoretikon mega" might do the job. Some reasonable links for "parallage," since you speak about the Chrysanthine practice (a bibliographical reference would do as well), and we can finally remove all these tags which still mark this article as incomplete. Platonykiss (talk) 14:29, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarify tag concerning changes in Orthodox chant traditions 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)