Talk:Thiamine

message: Can someone please clear up 
"
Well-known syndromes caused by lack of thiamine due to malnutrition or a diet high in thiaminase-rich foods include Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome and beriberi, diseases also common in chronic abusers of alcohol.
"
I don't understand these two sentences.   Does it mean that the diseases occur in Thiaminase deficient diets *AND* in chronic abusers of alcohol, or *JUST LIKE, AS IN* ... 
bah!
It might be clearer if you recall that compounds ending in "ase" are enzymes which lyse or divide the compound listed before it. Think about penicillin and penicillinase (an enzyme made by bacteria) which prevents the PCN from working. If the diet has a lot of -ase it will break down the compound ( here thiamine) causing deficiency. Alcoholics are generally malnourished because they would rather drink than eat well.Hope this helps.
Hoot 21:02, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Diseases

message: Someone should add to the article that 'aneurin' is another name for thiamine. 193.77.101.102 17:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synonym for thiamine 

message: This page says that TPP is a coenzyme, but I've read that it is in fact a cofactor of pyruvate dehydrogenase, and a coenzyme of transketolase. I'm confused. Anyone have any ideas?
In both cases, the term "coenzyme" seems the most appropiate.
:You are right. It is a prosthetic group. --kupirijo (talk) 00:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coenzyme or cofactor? 

message: I don't feel qualified to try to incorporate this, but here's an article describing research which found that diabetics tend to be significantly thiamine deficient, which may in fact cause many of the serious symptoms of diabetes.
The article also says that transketolase may not be a good diagnostic tool, but I could be misreading that.
Blurble 14:48, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diabetes and Thiamine testing 

message: I hope someone more wiki-skilled than I will incorporate things drawn from....
http://nobelprize.org/educational_games/medicine/vitamin_b1/eijkman.html
.. and similar into this page about thiamine.
I understand from a BBC TV program that Carol Vordeman's great-grandfather Vorderman (I think the absent/ extra "r" are correct) was chief medical officer for the whole "Dutch East Indies" (today's Indonesia)... and noticed the link between beriberi and white (polished) vs brown rice.... a difference that was especially important to prisoners, who ate white rice... and died... in their millions...
Supposedly the current head of the Eijkman institute... named for the man who got the Nobel prize for "discovering" B1 has said that Vorderman should have shared that prize.
Tkbwik 20:50, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of vitamins.... 

message: I would say that if this particular section becomes too long, then one could make a new article, but the suggested name seems a bit too long.  It might make sense to eventually make an article with a name something like "Genetic diseases of thyamin metabolism," but right now there doesn't seem to be enough material for that.  Someone else would just come along and want to merge it back into this article.
WriterHound (talk) 14:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New article request (genetic diseases section of article)

message: There's only a sentence in the lede that says it's "essential for neural function and carbohydrate metabolism", which is pretty vague.
This page, I believe, provides the primary information needed, and I will try to incorporate some of the information into the article if no one else gets there before I had the time to do so.Keith Galveston (talk) 09:07, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mentioning of "function" of thiamine? 

message: I welcome discussion/improvements to the material I added.  Is it OK to use Google Scholar as a general reference to support overview statements instead of attempting to select specific references that appeal to my POV?shbrown (talk) 14:32, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent Edits

message: Thiamine is listed in this page as having a chemical formula of C12-H17-N4-O-S, which gives a molecular weight of 265.31.  This is the thiamine cation however.  "Thiamine" is listed in both the Merck Index as well as the United States National Library of Medicine has having a molecular formula of C12-H17-N4-O-S.Cl, which includes the chloride anion ()  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anemone13 (talk • contribs) 19:39, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thiamine Chemical Formula 

message: Thiamine Mononitrate is the form of thiamine I see listed in supplement ingredients, how come it only gets a passing mention in the article? What other bio-active forms are there?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.191.224.10 (talk) 21:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The mononitrate part of the molecule is for stability when thiamine is added to food or an ingredient in a supplement. It separates during digestion and is not part of what is absorbed as thiamine. For some vitamins and essential minerals there are heated debates as to whether the accessory part of the compound aids or hinders absorption, but I do not believe that applies to thiamine. David notMD (talk) 01:07, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thiamine Mononitrate 

message: It might make sense to calculate an exact mass for biomolecules using the lightest and most common of the nuclides to do it. This would then be the most common peak in mass spectrometry. It is a nine significant digit number since we know the atomic weights of the various nuclides to that accuracy. However, real samples will have a mean molecular weight accurate to less than 6 sig digit certainty, due to natural variations in C-12/C-13 ratios and so forth, depending on the source of the molecule (this is how testosterne doping is detected in sports, for example). If we put "exact masses" in these articles to 9 digits, we should make it clear how they are calculated by assuming the most common nuclides for each atomic species. That isn't a given-- for assuming most common nuclide isn't part of the definition of "exact mass" for molecules (for example, a molecule of thiamine which appened to contain an atom of C-13 would have quite a different exact mass than the one you see here). So there needs to be a footnote and caveat, to the effect that this is the assumption made for these figures for any molecule, and particularly biomolecules. SBHarris 16:38, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exact mass? 

message: Can we get a picture of it on here? Warpzero 05:36, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, we should have one. It's an uninteresting-looking white powder, but we have plenty of photos of white powders in chem articles. SBHarris 01:07, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need a photo of the stuff 

message: I always thought that thiamine as a cofactor for G6PD was an essential part of understanding the necessity of replacing thiamine with dextrose infusion in alcoholics.  This seemed to be common knowledge in the 20th century.  What happened? doctorwolfie (talk) 12:50, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whatever happened to G6P Dehydrogenase 

message: I've removed this sentence since thiamine does not participate directly in these syntheses. The thiamine derivative TPP is used as a cofactor in the citric acid cycle and acetyl CoA production to produce acetyl-CoA and alpha-ketoglutarate(which can be converted to glutamate). Acetyl-CoA is used in the synthesis of acetylcholine, and glutamate is a precursor to GABA, so decrease of thiamine does lead to decrease in these neurotransmitters... But it also leads to a decrease in the synthesis of a whole lot of things due to the fact that acetyl-CoA production and the citric acid cycle are so central to metabolism in general.TypingAway (talk) 03:08, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Thiamine is used in the biosynthesis of the [[neurotransmitter]]s [[acetylcholine]] and [[gamma-aminobutyric acid]] (GABA)" 

message: I am creating the same format for DRIs for all B vitamins. That is a U.S.- based system that identifies Estimated Average Requirements (EARs), Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs), Adequate Intakes (AIs) if there is not enough information to establish EARs and RDAs, and Tolerable Upper Intake Levels (ULs). Another major regulatory agency that has established ULs is the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA). ULs for both are provided, as they often differ. If there is a UL (for some vitamins none has been determined) then rationale is covered in a Toxicity section. In addition to DRIs, the U.S. also established Daily Value, using it on food and dietary supplement labels as %DV, last revised in May 2016. What I have written can be improved. It lacks EFSA or other major country RDAs. It lacks an estimate of what percentages of people are deficient - although that is often covered in a separate section on deficiency and consequences of deficiency. I am creating this Subject in all of the Talk pages of the vitamin entries I have edited. Comments and improvements are welcome.
David notMD (talk) 14:15, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Food and supplement labeling for Daily Values will confusing for several years. The entire Facts panel was revised May 2016, but companies have until July 28, 2018 to be compliance with the change (small companies, a year longer). This means that products will be for sale with old or new %DV determinations.David notMD (talk) 17:25, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Changed section title to Dietary recommendations because Dietary Reference Intakes is used only in U.S. and Canada; added European information, with citations. David notMD (talk) 12:56, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dietary Reference Intakes 

message: In looking at the leads for all of the vitamins, most have no mention of cost. Would these articles be better if none mentioned cost? Or if all used the same source? Vitamin C states 3-7 cents per 100 mg tablet, referenced to: International Drug Price Indicator Guide. Management Sciences for Health, Arlington, VA. 2016. Folate and Vitamin B1 cite the same source, but the hyperlinks do not work. Vitamins B1 and B2 reference a text without a hyperlink [Hamilton, Richart (2015). Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia 2015 Deluxe Lab-Coat Edition. Jones & Bartlett Learning. p. 230. ISBN 9781284057560.] which appears to apply to hospital prescription pricing, as the costs are far higher than vitamin supplement pricing. My preference is for no mention of cost. David notMD (talk) 10:44, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: How much medications cost, especially those on the WHO List of Essential Medicines is important with respect to global health. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:14, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The WHO List has only nine nutrients, and no cost per dose information. The vitamin C article is the only one with a functioning link to a cost. Link is http://mshpriceguide.org/en/single-drug-information/?DMFId=830&searchYear=2015. Changing the 830 to 821 gets working link to vitamin B1, to 827 gets B6. This MSH Price Guide does not have much more in the way of cost per day. Again, given paucity of on line information, my opinion is to still list nothing for any nutrient. More to the point, providing a hospital pharmacy charge for a nutrient has no relevance for a person who is looking at the article and wondering how much the nutrient would cost at a retail pharmacy. David notMD (talk) 12:58, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: All the pricing information is well referenced. As medicines vary in price by more than a 100 million times yes the rough price of medicines is useful. Is the med around one USD, 10 USD, 100 USD, 10,000 USD etc? Also we are not just writing for potential patients by also hospital admin and health systems. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:38, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, but am not going to change any of the vitamin articles. David notMD (talk) 10:50, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: We had a big discussion at WT:MED about this a year or two ago. IMO price is an important dimension of a medication. The price of hepatitis C meds for example are notable. This often determines whether or not a medication can be found in a country and whether or not a person is able to get the treatment in question. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:29, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why have pricing information? 

message: Why is this not a good enough source? "American Society of Health-System Pharmacists" Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:09, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Better source?

message: This ref was added http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/guide_food_fortification_micronutrients.pdf
The document is more than 300 pages. Which page supports the text in question?
"Refined grains lose much of their thiamine and in many countries cereals and flours are enriched with thiamine."
Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 10:12, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Done --Iztwoz (talk) 10:49, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Page number

message: Elaborate upon the importance of thiamine in pregnancy and explain why pregnant/lactating women have higher DRIs. 
Discuss the consequence(s) of thiamine deficiency in pregnant women, newborns, lactating women, and breastfeeding infants.
Mlomanto (talk) 21:31, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foundations 2 2019, Group 5a goals 

message: 1. Do the group’s edits substantially improve the article as described in the
Wikipedia peer review “Guiding framework”?
The article mainly expands upon thiamine as prenatal nutrition, specifically the reason for increased intake in pregnant and nursing women. The lead section appears easy to understand and the structure is somewhat clear as it touches upon pregnant women, pregnant women with a comorbid condition, and finally lactating women. The rest of the edits appear to be contributing, though minor (e.g. definitions, function clarifications, some side effects). 
The articles cited are from reliable sources, most are accessible, but some requires to be purchased for the full version (such as #19 and #36) 
2. Has the group achieved its overall goals for improvement?
The group has elaborated on why pregnant and lactating women have higher DRIs including common doses of thiamine in prenatal vitamins. However, the consequences of thiamine deficiencies in the demographics listed in the goals were not clarified.
The group added a new subheading under “Medical Uses” titled “Prenatal supplementation,” which elaborates on the importance of thiamine supplementation in pregnancy. Under this subheading, the group used freely accessible publications that support their statements regarding the importance of thiamine in these populations and consequences of thiamine deficiency in infants. More information could be added on the effects of thiamine deficiency in pregnant/lactating women.
3. Are the points included verifiable with cited secondary sources that are freely
available? If not, specify...
The sources used by the group are mostly secondary literature that are freely accessible to the public and are supportive of their statements. Vicknguy (talk) 16:30, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foundations 2 2019, Group 5c Peer Review of Group 5b 

message: FDA(?) acronyms AI and UL are used without explanation. Average intake and Upper limit?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.254.154.105 (talk) 12:18, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  FDA terms AI and UL? 

message: Benfotiamine and sulbutiamine as nutraceutical thiamine prodrugs may warrant mention in supplementation/uses. Deferring to other editors. SloppyTots (talk) 23:17, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Benfotiamine and Sulbutiamine exist as articles, as does Fursultiamine. All are synthetic derivatives of thiamine, with claims for superior bioavailability. Approved as drug or dietary supplement in some countries. Clinical trial evidence appears to be thin. David notMD (talk) 10:06, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  prodrugs 

message: Thiamine, as it exists on 31 January 2022, has a high content match with https://med.libretexts.org/LibreTexts/American_River_College/General_Nutrition_Textbook_(not_Plant-Based)-_reference_for_NUTRI_303_(Hagenburger)/7%3A_Vitamins/7.3%3A_Water_Soluble_Vitamins/Vitamin_B1. Thus, registering as a copyright violation. Medicine LibreTexts appears to be a site that copies Wikipedia articles. At its article: "Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Last updated Aug 14, 2020", it does not acknowledge being copied from Wikipedia. David notMD (talk) 15:26, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright violation? 

message: Beginning review for GA nomination. Starting with reviewing all refs that are available online. Sections will be retitled and ordered to align with other vitamin articles that are GA. David notMD (talk) 09:45, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Nominated on 16 July 2022. Intention is to do some more work prior to review. David notMD (talk) 15:42, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA nomination 

message: Another way to look at this question is asking what is the preferred spelling in science journal articles. A quickie look at articles listed at the National Library of Medicine search site PubMed showed a preference for thiamine. Unfortunately, trying to search on the two spellings yielded 19,066 articles for both, meaning that PubMed sees both as one search term. David notMD (talk) 14:23, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thiamin versus Thiamine, revisited