Talk:Eintracht Frankfurt (women)

message: The whole section is very tendentious. For example to describe Potsdam as socialist and Frankfurt as capitalist. While there might indeed be indicators for that this statement is strongly PoV. Even if such a view is held by many it should be stated as such ("Potsdam is often seen as being in socialist tradtition while Frankfurt...) and evidence must definitely be given. Anyway the section is important as Frankfurt vs. Potsdam is definitely the biggest rivalry in German women's football, but the section should be more balanced anyway. OdinFK (talk) 19:11, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  PoV issue in the Potsdam rivalry section 

message: Eintracht women should be in another article. This merge should be undone in my eyes. -Koppapa (talk) 05:09, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you lay out your rationale in a bit more detail? All sources indicate that 1. FFC Frankfurt will become the first-team of Eintracht's women's football department and, crucially, with Eintracht taking over FFC's existing license in Frauen-Bundesliga and 2. Frauen-Bundesliga. The current Eintracht women's team will become Eintracht III. Are you proposing that, after 1 July 2020, we should have two separate pages that are both named Eintracht women? Seany91 (talk) 11:06, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

text: Key here is that all sources indicate this is a merger, which means that FFC continues as Eintracht women. If there are sources indicating otherwise, e.g., this post-merger Eintracht women will not inherit FFC's records, then starting a new, separate Eintracht women page might make sense. Seany91 (talk) 11:12, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it's a merger into Eintracht. The FFC effectifely defunct then (see here). Anything from 1 July happens under the Eintracht Banner, so a new article under Eintracht Frankfurt (women) makes sense. That article then also should mention the previous Eintracht women's team from 2004 to 2020 (as a section). That's my view. -Koppapa (talk) 16:31, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Merger does not mean former team is defunct; it means a continuation of the former team under a different name (see license discussion above). The situation you describe is easily achieved by moving the current FFC page to Eintracht women on 1 July, with as you said a section on previous Eintracht women teams (and which is already done). Seany91 (talk) 19:04, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: A move seems wrong to me. But time will tell. -Koppapa (talk) 05:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

text: I've laid out my rationale pretty clearly above, and relevant histories (including that of the previous Eintracht women's football department) were already included as prose in the reserves section of this article. So discuss away, but TBF few other editors have been actively contributing to making a case for a viable separate article and since the move was reverted a bunch of links and redirects are now a total mess. So hopefully this gets fixed soon. Seany91 (talk) 06:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Further evidence from the DFB clearly implies that the existing club licenses will continue. FFC Frankfurt becomes the new Eintracht women and continues competing with its existing license. The old Eintracht women becomes Eintracht III and continues competing with its existing license. Seany91 (talk) 12:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but that isn't then point. x and y is the women's team of Eintracht. Not z and --- . Something like "From 1999 to 2020, the club was known as 1. FFC Frankfurt." are just wrong. Eintracht was always Eintracht since 2004. Saying Eintracht was founded in 1973 is also wrong, they were created in 2004. We write articles about clubs, not about license owners.
                                Eintracht 2004-
                                xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
                                                    |   Frankfurt 2020-
 SG Praunheim, -1998                                |
....................---------------------------------
                    FFC Frankfurt, 1999-2020
Praunheim to FFC: FFC was a new club. FFC took same license (mid season even).
FFC to Eintracht: Eintracht had a women's team. Eintracht took same licence. 
I mean, if the head looked something like
Eintracht Frankfurt is a German women's association football club based in Frankfurt. Its women's seaction was founded in 2004 and played in the regional levels of German football until 2020. In 2020 the FFC Frankfurt was merged into Eintracht Frankfurt, Eintracht overtook the Bundesliga licence of the FFC and all their women's teams. Since then its first team plays in the German top flight, Frauen-Bundesliga.
Under the FFC Frankfurt banner the club had won seven German women's football championships, a record nine Frauen DFB-Pokals, and four UEFA Women's Champions League titles (trailing only Lyon). Eintracht play at the Stadion am Brentanobad''
i guess, they can live in the same article. What do you think of that? Still think it would be cleaner to have the FFC timeline end at 2020 and have two articles. -Koppapa (talk) 16:30, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

text: TBH, feel free to do what you want. There are already two articles anyway since the revert, so in the interest of clarity this should be addressed ASAP so that there aren't all sorts of weird redirects. Maybe I'm more used to the American context where relocations and license takeovers of sports teams are more common and there are clear precedence of article conventions on Wiki. I still disagree with your rationale here but I'm not gonna dig in my heels. Seany91 (talk) 18:49, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

text: I suppose one thing that would answer our discussion is whether Eintracht will inherit FFC Frankfurt's records and trophies. If they do, then I think it's clearly one single page (and based on Frauen-Bundesliga page it appears that FFC Frankfurt did inherit Praunheim's records). If not, then you're right. But unless Eintracht says something about it I suppose we might never know. Seany91 (talk) 18:53, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

text: I practiced WP:FIXIT but got reverted; it's been ~three months and clearly the discussion is going nowhere. Is either of you planning to do anything about this topic any time soon? As I already said above, no problem here with discussions (of course) but those who objected to others' edits should also be prepared to fix and improve articles after that. Seany91 (talk) 12:28, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, well, after seeing how the media has talked about the club now, I'd say a merger would be fine. Probably easiest is to delete Eintracht Frankfurt (women) now and then move this article to there. -Koppapa (talk) 15:39, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:   So, as the original objector, are you actually going to put what you said here into action, or are we still just talking about it? Especially since what you proposed now was what I did (and what you objected to) three months ago. Seany91 (talk) 20:49, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved. -06:52, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  FFC is done after this season 

message: Since the article move got reverted, the previous merger was also undone which created a mess of redirects. So now I'm putting up tags for this to be discussed together with the page move. As I discussed above, this merge was already done once before and before a page move. The history of the previous Eintracht women's department has already been included in the reserves section of this article. What I did (which got reverted) and what I still advocate for is to merge the content of the existing Eintracht women page to this current page, and then move this page to Eintracht women. Seany91 (talk) 06:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I practiced WP:FIXIT but got reverted; it's been ~three months and clearly the discussion is going nowhere. Is either of you planning to do anything about this topic any time soon? As I already said above, no problem here with discussions (of course) but those who objected to others' edits should also be prepared to fix and improve articles after that. Seany91 (talk) 12:28, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, well, after seeing how the media has talked about the club now, I'd say a merger would be fine. Probably easiest is to delete Eintracht Frankfurt (women) now and then move this article to there. -Koppapa (talk) 15:39, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:   So, as the original objector, are you actually going to put what you said here into action, or are we still just talking about it? Especially since what you proposed now was what I did (and what you objected to) three months ago. Seany91 (talk) 20:49, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved. -06:52, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger discussion