Talk:Anti-Italianism

message: Is this link really appropriate?  --NEMT 21:14, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: La Cosa Nostra

message: I disagree with the POV and content of this article in principle. Nonetheless, it exists so I think there should be some degree of fact. I've never been to Australia but I understand that originally 'wog' was a derogatory term for Italians and Greeks. With the increase of immigrants from the middle-east since the 1980s, this term came to be applied to them as well. From what I gather, the riots at Cronulla were not aimed at Italians but represented the growing xenophobia towards Muslims. I modified the article to soften the inclusion of Italians, but perhaps it should be removed completely. Mariokempes 22:57, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I could not find any support for this statement. Removed. Mariokempes 16:54, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, I live in Australia and am of Italian descent. The term wog first was used against Greeks and Italians but now anyone from a number of different Southern European countries get the name. Cronulla was against Lebanese after attacks against whites were reported; some say the attacks were actually done by Turkish gang members rather then Lebanese but white Aussies just assumed it was the Lebanese. At the riot both Arabs and any other darker skinned people were targeted. Alexbonaro 04:46, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  2005 Cronulla riots (Australia) 

message: I've tagged this for clean up due to:
* The presence of uncited direct quotations
* A heavy reliance on weasel words throughout
* Possible original research
* The rather unconvincing assertion that calling a politician "fascist" is an incident of anti-Italianism (consider: Fascist (epithet))
--88.149.173.98 16:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flagged for clean up 

message: * U.S.-centrism:  I'm assuming that the focus on the US (aside from two brief paragraphs) is reflective of systematic bias rather than reality.
* Stereotypes of Italians and Italian Americans: This section probably needs completely rewritten or removed, as it relies largely on weasel words and unverified (and unverifiable) statements.
* Violence Against Italians
** Find citations for the following:
*** "the second most likely group to be lynched"
*** "the lynching of eleven Italians in the city of New Orleans"
*** ""were nearly deafening"" (Apparently a quote from somewhere)
*** "one newspaper reported..." (direct quote needs cited)
*** S&V were executed partially "due to their Italian ancestry"
*** S&V were convicted "despite the lack of evidence"
** Weasel words:
*** "most historians agree" that S&Z's trial was unfair; How many are most?  Who says this, when do they say it, and where do they say it?
* Italian American internment during World War II
** "One official stated..." (indirect quote needs cited)
** "Bill Clinton made a public declaration" (would benefit from citation)
* Anti-Italianism in politics
** Weasel words:
*** "It was argued..."
*** "was seen by some of his supporters"
*** "Opponents of Alito's nomination countered..."
*** "which some interpreted as an ethnic slur"
*** "which was also interpreted by some as a derogatory"
--Ringtail Jack 14:17, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues that still need addressed (May 2007): 

message: The article had been edited to state that "President Bill Clinton once referred to Governor of New York Mario Cuomo as a "Mafioso".  This is incorrect on several levels. First, he was not president at the time of the comment. Second, Clinton himself never used the word. In response to a comment by Gennifer Flowers that "I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have some Mafioso major connections," then-Governor Clinton said, "Well, he acts like one." Here is one of many sources quoting the exchange: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE3D71438F933A05752C0A964958260  I think the exchange still has a place in the article, but it should be done to correctly reflect Clinton's comment.--Ana Nim (talk) 13:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Clinton and the "Mafioso" comment"

message: It should probably be noted that the 1921 (and, later, 1924--See Emergency Quota Act and Johnson-Reed Act) quota regarding the number of Italian immigrants allowed into the US applied not only to Italians, but to all immigrants from the Eastern Hemisphere.  This quota was put in place largely as a result of post-WWI US isolationism-- as well as anti-Chinese sentiment (and, later, anti-Japanese sentiment) following the downturn of the 1848-49 Gold Rush in California--in fact, the 1924 Act specifically barred all Asians from entering the country.  How the article reads now implies that the quota was specifically targeted at Italian immigrants, a grossly misleading insinuation.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.252.53 (talk) 15:39, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct, the immigration act was a result of increased nativist sentiment among White American, esp. that of "WASPs" against foreign born persons entering to live or work in the USA. Also during the 1920's and 30's was a spike rise and fall trend of Mexicans and Puerto Ricans, two other nationalities who are "Latino" began to be treated alot worse than older established or "lighter skinned" European immigrants (white ethnics) to indicate the complete acceptance of them such as Italians. During the gold rush, there were Chilean and Peruvian miners in the Californian coasts and sierras that encountered mob violence and expulsion from neighborhoods, in part of anti-Mexican and xenophobic feel among white Anglo Americans there. + 71.102.12.55 (talk) 10:03, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Quota

message: Guinea (ethnic slur) redirects here, but there's no mention of that in this article, other than a pointless link to that redirect. It looks like that this has been the subject of an incomplete transwiki to Wiktionary here. We need to resolve this, not least so as I can figure out who's who in The Departed. -- 87.112.6.240 (talk) 23:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Guinea (ethnic slur)

message: There was wide spread Anti Italianism at the end of WW2 with regards to the slavs when they invaded and occupied Istria and then Trieste for a month. During this time many Italians were murdered and thrown into Foibes (caves), this was known as the Foibe Massacres. Also during this time 300,000 Italians were forced to flee their homes due to Yugoslav persecution.
Rodolfo Graziani (talk) 17:31, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti Italianism in Yugoslavia 

message: This article is a joke and REALLY needs to be deleted. Amongst its many faults, as it asks us to take note of alleged widespread bigotry against Italians, it shamelessly slanders the Irish and Germans as bigots! This is nothing but an expression of Italian-American bigoted stereotypes about others. This article is clearly the work of ignorant, bigoted, cafones; the article suggests some over priveleged, under witted Italian-Amerian kids have had their minds destroyed by 'whiteness studies' propoganda. LOL. Or Cry out loud, I'm not sure which is more appropriate.
The country is named for an Italian, for crisakes. Stop your whiny bitching. I thought Italians were supposed to be tough guys? You P.C. identity politics victim mongers make me ashamed to be  of Italian descent.
P.S.: The article actually refers to “U.S. Americans” at one point.
SIGH! :(
Modnartag (talk) 02:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The social status of Italians in American society is generally positive and not to sound like CNN's Rick Sanchez commenting on "Jews had it better than blacks or Latinos in the USA", there is less avert prejudice or discrimination against Italians in this country, but I don't deny it does occur on occassion. You could refer them as a model minority in the same fashion given to Asian-Americans, esp. Indians and the Japanese, two other ethnic groups experienced a harsher type of racism based on skin color and racial appearance in American history. + 71.102.12.55 (talk) 09:59, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hmmm... 'anti-Italianism' bad, 'anti-Irishism' and 'anti-Germanism'  good? 

message: Would there be a page somewhere to examine the allegations of racism in Italy in recent times ? There have been major riots against Romanian minorities. Some have also reported historical or current discriminations against Blacks, Jews, Arabs and others. ADM (talk) 08:17, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant to respond that I created such an article and placed it in "see also."--T. Anthony (talk) 18:36, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Racism in Italy

message: I have always noticed that Americans use to portrait Italians, Greeks and Iberians as dark or olive skinned. That's not true. Only very few Italians from certain territories in southern Italy have LIGHT dark skin, because they probably have arabian people among their ancestors (because of the islamic invasion of southern Italy between 827 and 1091). I am Italian and surely my skin is white. I ask to remove every reference in the article about Italians being dark skinned, because this is a racist statement that dates back to the beginning of XX century, when it was introduced by anglo-americans in order to justify racism against the italian immigrates coming to the U.s.a.
Speaking of racism in Italy: i don't know what they say to you about my country, but in Italy there have never been "riots" against strangers, but only pacific demonstrations of protest against them (I'm not going to explain the reasons behind these protests, as it would be too long). However this article is about racism against italians not about italian racism, which is dealed about in other articles. It's sad thinking someone aim to include in this page news about italian racism: it seems to me a way to justify racism against Italians ("we are racist against italians, but they are racist so they deserve it!"). Very sad.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.36.133.11 (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There are lighter-skinned Italians in the North. Some paintings from Renaissance Florence show light-skinned red-heads and I don't think these were all fantasy images. However I believe Italian immigration to the US tended to be more from the Southern half of Italy. Argentina, as I recall, received more Northern Italians in per-capita terms.--T. Anthony (talk) 09:44, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

text: This map is not true. The guy who made it confused the Vikings with the Normans from Normandy. The yellow colour refers to the Normans in the south of Italy and in Sicily, but they were only a few hundreds. Further genetic researchs show clearly that the populations of southern Italy and Sicily are not related to the population of Normandy (and further of the Northern part of France).Nortmannus (talk) 21:55, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Italians are not dark skinned

message: Curtis Sliwa, on his nationally syndicated radio show stated that Italians don't need an Italian American museum, because it will be run by the Mafia. He also stated that he could swing a cat in there and every fifth person he hit would be mafia. Moreover, he claimed that 'museum contributions' will be made because mafia enforcers will request it once you walk in. Again, this story is a matter of fact, not fiction. Moreover, the sources are highly reliable and the information provided here is neutral. Along with the story of Sliwa's comments is Sliwa's letter of apology, where he stated that he did not intend for his comments to be an attack on the Italian community.
: What if he made the same idiotic style of commentary about the Holocaust memorial Museum and the National Civil Rights Museum? Silwa would been sued, fired or even charged with group libel against Jews, African-Americans and other groups fought for civil rights or were victims of the Nazi genocide. It is convenient or "less controversial" to make a comment degrading Italian-Americans for Silwa to jack up the radio show's ratings. It is no longer "taboo" to pick on Italians for having an ethnic heritage, compared to attacking people of color and other religions, but the results are the same and Silwa has offended Italians for being "different". + 71.102.12.55 (talk) 09:55, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Curtis Sliwa's Comments

message: The largest Italian American organizations have come out stating that MTV's use (the network itself used the term) of the term Guido to describe a group of Italian American cast members was derogatory, offensive and a mass propagation of an ethnic slur against Italians. There is little to no evidence that the term Guido has been 'adapted' to be an acceptable way to refer to an Italian. The word's historic use is that of hatred, and continues to be. The use of this term in MTV's promos which were scripted with voice-over work (not the use of the word by cast) is the exact definition of anti-Italian. All quotes and statements have reliable, trustworthy sources and should not be removed. The statements are neutral and reported as facts, not opinions. If Rev. Wright's 'Garlic Noses' comment is to remain in the article (as it very well should), MTV referring to Italian Americans by an ethnically derisive term should remain in place as well. 
If the validity of the sources is to be judged- there is a link to the letter the NIAF mailed directly to Viacom (MTV's parent company) denouncing the use of the term Guido to describe the cast. Moreover, there are Fox News and CNN reports on the statements made by the Italian American group UNICO on the subject of the Jersey Shore. If someone is to remove this information, which again has been presented in a neutral, bare-facts manner, they are the ones injecting their opinion into the structure and substance of this article. We cannot treat the MTV controversy as just a blip on the radar. It is not a personal story about how someone called one individual a guido-it is major, national, headline news. - signed by anon IP
: The liberal media claims they are fighting racism and group stereotypes of all kinds, including that of Italians. You could have mentioned in the 1970's there was some protests about the Godfather movie trilogy depicted Italians were highly involved in organized crime. But the movie was primarily received warmly in the Italian community, since the movie was directed by Francis Ford Coppola of Italian descent and based on the novel by Italian-American writer Mario Puzo. But ironically, Marlon Brando was not Italian, except the film's Don Corleone character has a human not caricatural feature of a person from an Italian culture. The movie displays with accuracy no exaggerations and some of the characters spoke Italian or Sicilian dialogue with subtitles in the film. The major difference is that you won't find seriously offensive material about Italian people whether are American or from Italy, on The Godfather movie trilogy, while Jersey Shore is completely an act on what's depicted a "reality show" though not intented to be offensive portrayals of Italians, Jews, people from New Jersey or New York. + 71.102.12.55 (talk) 09:53, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Jersey Shore Controversy

message: I am removing the NPOV alert placed by an anonymous contributor on June 24, 2011.  Given that this anonymous contributor has not made clear what the basis is for raising this alert, and since I do not share this opinion, I am removing it.  If the anonymous contributor, or anyone else, wishes to reinstate the NPOV alert, I believe they should make known their concern so that the article can be modified to reflect their concerns.
Philantonia  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Philantonia (talk • contribs) 17:26, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: POV Alert

message: I have removed the citation flag alerts which have been there since April 2010, and Aug 2010. Neither of these alerts were ever justified, or have been previously questioned.  Given the very substantial modifications that have taken place since the time of the alerts, I thing they may no longer be applicable.  I think the fair and constructive approach is to identify specific areas where further citations are needed, and insert a "reference needed" alert.
Philantonia (talk) 17:13, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation Flag Removal

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thread_title: File:Speak American WWII.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: The section entitled "Italian-American Stereotyping" contains quite a few questionable allegations of 'anti-Italianism'. I removed the following because it is by no means clear that it is an example of "Italian-American Stereotyping":
* A campaign ad against former Illinois treasurer Alexi Giannoulias, a Greek American, uses unflattering stereotypes of Italian-Americans and concludes that  “Tony Soprano would be proud of Alexi Giannoulias”.http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2010/02/05/gop-ad-uses-italian-american-stereotypes-against-greek-american-candidate/
It is not uncommon for politicians to invoke hyperbolic rhetoric in campaign ads (e.g. Romney is a murderer). Tony Soprano is an iconic American character; a politician assailing the character of his opponent by suggesting a fictional gangster would like him is hardly an obvious case of Italian-American stereotyping. The candidate in question isn't even an Italian-American (even if he was it would still be quite a strained accusation). Is any reference to The Sopranos inherently 'anti-Italian'? Frankly, I find the whole notion that mafia movies or references to them are inherently 'anti-Italian' unconvincing. 
The 'article' fails to recognize that Italian mafia movies have replaced "the western" as the staple of American outlaw cinema; references to it are inevitable. It also fails to recognize that, however distasteful it may be, Americans tend to look upon the Italian mob in general and certainly the fictional mob portrayed in many movies and in The Sopranos as chic, sexy, and 'cool'. Many Italian-Americans and non-Italian-Americans alike will falsely boast of being 'connected' or knowing someone who is to impress people. Sure, when it comes to noteworthy Italians, one would prefer that people thought Galileo was cooler than the fictional Tony Soprano but that just isn't the case.
Also, I left the Curtis Sliwa allegation, but added the critical piece of information that Sliwa is himsef Italian-American and proudly so, as anyone who has ever heard his broadcasts can testify. Frankly, the suggestion that a proud Italian-American is anti-Italian is somewhat absurd. In fact, I think the whole article is somewhat absurd. It comes across more as special pleading to consider Italian-Americans an oppressed group akin to blacks and Latinos than a dispassionate encyclopedia article. It seems more political than encyclopedic; the article has an agenda, which is Italian-American identity politics. 
I also find the suggestion that a broadcaster opining that Andrew Cuomo's presidential prospects might be hurt by his ethnicity is 'anti-Italian' or 'stereotyping' to be both dubious and ironic in the context of an article which seeks to portray the Italian-American community as a despised minority. Cognitive dissonance? That said, I don't think the broadcaster's statement makes much sense in a country that elected a black president (a black can get elected president but an Italian couldn't?), has had a Native-American vice president (Charles Curtis), had a Jewish running mate on a ticket that won the popular vote in 2000 (Gore-Lieberman) and (until recently) an Italian-American speaker of the house. Nevertheless, the broadcaster's statement seems sympathetic towards Italian-Americans, not antagonistic.
I want to nominate the article for deletion because I don't think it's encyclopedic. Even the term "anti-Italianism" itself is contrived and rather obviously and awkwardly inspired by the word "antisemitism". I've searched extensively for instances of this word both online and off and have found it only in the rhetoric of political Italian-American activist organisations and cranky identity politics academics from ethnocentric 'ethnic studies' programs. It is not a term that anyone outside the tiny realm of Italian-American identity politics activists and academics would be familiar with. Not the sort of thing that should appear in an encyclopedic article. If other American white ethnic groups were to follow this model Wikipedia would be littered with articles entitled "Anti-Irishism" and "Anti-Germanism" and "Anti-Polishism" in short order.
Italians have been discriminated against as have many other groups, but they don't have the same history of persistent widespread oppression that groups such as Blacks, Jews, and Native-Americans have experienced. It seems a topic worthy of perhaps a subsection of an article on discrimination in general rather than a dedicated article. The only reason I haven't formally nominated the article for deletion is (1) Frankly, I don't know how [Wikipedia has all sorts of great easily accessible info on just about everything EXCEPT how to do things like this, ironically] and (2) I think it should be discussed first; maybe a compromise can be arrived at. At present, this seems more like original research and activism than an encyclopedic article. CannotFindAName (talk) 16:32, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious Allegations of 'Anti-Italianism' 

message: The article says that the idea that the Italian soldiers didn't do too good of a job was inaccurate but the infobox in the Operation Compass article would say very much otherwise. 86.45.32.90 (talk) 19:07, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Poor Soldiering Stereotype

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thread_title: Move discussion in progress

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I added a reference to the claim that thousands of Italian men between ages 17 and 60 were arrested after a speech by Winston Churchill. However, the reference was found through a quick Google search that appeared to be the only source of this information. If possible, can anyone else find another source of this information? Thanks. SirkablaamTalk 11:03, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-Italianism in the United Kingdom 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: So in the article I see references to italophobia in America, Britain and France but why is there no mention of Australia? Anti Italian sentiment was high in Australia for much of the 20th century. 108.208.70.47 (talk) 16:23, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti Italianism in Australia