Talk:Bagel

message: is assumed in article, no source. --142.163.194.153 (talk) 21:27, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  superiority of New York bagel? 

message: A new article out in Serious Eats which delves into the history of the bagel with legitimately cited academic sources clarifies much of the "ambiguous history" of the bagel referred to in the introduction to this page. I suggest we incorporate this information into the introduction about the origins, because they are not ambiguous as claimed here and can be traced back to the 13th century, earlier than the 17 century currently mentioned.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Figsandpecans (talk • contribs) 14:21, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Firstly, the website "Serious Eats" is not a reliable source, it is a blog/commentary which also contains some typos. However, the books it cites are quite interesting. However, none of these sources state that the kaak is a precursor to the modern bagel. The claim is made by the author of the web article who coined eg. wheat flour in Poland which is native to the Mediterranean and the Levant. It is highly trivial and all bread is somehow related. Any mentioning of this should be included in the body of the article and not in the lead (introductory) section. Oliszydlowski (talk) 14:39, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

text: It doesn't really matter if the blog cites reliable sources if those cited sources don't make the same claims. - MrOllie (talk) 14:56, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

text: The author of the article is Reem Kassis, who might be considered a reliable source regardless of where her work is published. I'd support a brief mention in the history section. gobonobo + c 20:04, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved the content to the history section and rephrased it to "Recent study showed that the bagel could be related to the Arabic ka'ak which possibly made its way to Poland and other parts of Europe through the Mediterranean". Is that good? Oliszydlowski (talk) 02:28, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of Bagel 

message: I've re-applied the edits I made to fix referencing errors in this article.  was added to the article without a reference of that name previously being defined. That causes the article to render with a visible error message, in addition to material not being actually referenced. I changed some curly quotes to straight quotes, per MOS:CONFORM. And I converted a raw reference URL to use  so the reference has more, clear information about the 
referenced material. These changes have nothing to do with the ongoing origin discussions. They don't need any discussion, since they implement wikipedia's recommended practices and style.
Maybe there are some issues with the content, but my edit isn't changing the editorial content -- just formatting and referencing inprovments. Are there WP:OWN problems here? -- Mikeblas (talk) 20:47, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixing referencing problems and copyediting 

message: Is there really a likelihood someone would be confused when they got here because they were looking for Beagle? I assume someone thought beigel was a possible misspelling for beagle, but this just doesn't seem like a good enough reason for a hatnote, especially when there's already a hatnote there.  —valereee (talk) 16:52, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beagle? 

message: I'm inclined to propose Asiago bagel be merged into this. The Asiago bagel article seems to have too much going on to agree with 's PROD tag, but also not sure it justifies an independent article. I almost want to say this should be both the subject of a merge and a split -- looking at Bagel, there seems to be clear room for a Types of bagels-type page that doesn't appear to exist, and this would do better as an entry on it than an independent article. (Also paging  as creator of the article that would be merged here.) Vaticidalprophet (talk) 14:40, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: The section on "non-traditional" bagels includes "sourdough" as an example. This is misleading since the characteristics of a traditional bagel are that it contains yeasted wheat. Yeast can be commercial yeast or the natural yeasts found by fermenting a levain - which is the definition of sourdough.
Since bagels originated from a time before commercial yeast was available, sourdough is most definitely a traditional ingredient in any bread product. LeicesterChris (talk) 17:40, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-traditional bagels 

message: I placed this here for two reasons.
1) it is established that the Bagel comes from non-jewish, polish sources in the reference material used to cite the claim that the bagel originated among Ashkenazi Jews.
2) It has been argued here before that the bagel did not originate with Jews and that discussion was shut down by another user in a way that may constitute a violation of Wikipedia's rule against [Warring]. 
I know there is a commonly held folk belief that Ashkenazi Jews invented bagels because it is a large aspect of their culinary tradition, but even within the material referenced on this own page, that has been disproven here. Additionally, I am Jewish so I don't have any motive for this other than the absolute truth. Cakiva (talk) 01:25, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Can we have some sources please? Current claims are based off references which are placed in the article (see in-line citations and footnotes). Merangs (talk) 19:42, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious Jewish origin 

message: I read 5 to 10 Wikipedia articles a day, about pretty much anything, including articles about food, and I’ve never ever seen so many references to brand names and store names than in this bagel article.
I mean I guess that’s ok by the standards if the information is backed up by sources, but I wonder if this is a common thing in food articles to talk about specific restaurants or brands and give statistics about their sales
Just curious to see if it’s just me who finds that weird 104.200.83.221 (talk) 20:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to remove any excessive brand references. A few many be necessary to provide cultural context or factual support.  Gdcwd5 (talk) 19:06, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brands and store, restaurant chains name... is it normal? 

message: It says "Type: Bread"
...really though? 199.94.67.37 (talk) 17:10, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it bread, though? 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Bejgle and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at  until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Hey man im josh (talk) 14:34, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Bejgle" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Bajgiel and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at  until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Hey man im josh (talk) 14:35, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Bajgiel" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Bajgle and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at  until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Hey man im josh (talk) 14:35, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Bajgle" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: What is your problem? Why do you insist on unsourced statements? Bageleditor (talk) 01:04, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead section summarizes the rest of the article. Citations for the statements you are concerned about can be found further down. MrOllie (talk) 01:06, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

text: You asked for a source, even though sources in the lead section are optional. Then you deleted a statement as 'unsourced' anyway. What is really going on here? Do you doubt that Bagels are associated with the Jews? MrOllie (talk) 02:45, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem 

message: I have never seen that spelling being consumed by anyone in my entire life, and the source for it being an official spelling is a source that streams from a dictionary (AKA, not an objective source). Is there any instance of this spelling being dropped outside of the dictionary, like in an article or a study? Do-Droppy (talk) 12:29, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Common in some English communities. See https://www.timeout.com/london/restaurants/brick-lane-beigel-bake for example. 82.42.26.106 (talk) 21:30, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Beigel" as an alternative spelling