Talk:Petr Čech

message: 2020 should not be included in the infobox as he is not listed anywhere as a full-time first squad member (premierleague.com, chelseafc.com, uefa.com, soccerbase.com etc.). Emergency spot as a non-contract player is NOT a professional career, and he didnt "came out of retirement", this is what people came up with when he was included on the list, he doesnt even have a squad number assigned. That extra spot for one non-contract player was created only because of covid, and I think that the only way he can actually play is if all other professional keepers that are registered (Mendy, Kepa, Caballero, Ziger) would get covid and wont be able to play. Even if Lampard would want to play him this week he wont be able to if the other 4 keepers are tested negative, I think this is the rule for those emergency registrations but cannot find a source right now. His full-time job is techical/performance advisor, as listed at official website, and not a full-time player, so no inclusion in infobox. On that list, you can see that there are literally 60 academy scholars listed for Chelsea, they can techically play in the PL but that doesnt mean they are full-time squad members now. Snowflake91 (talk) 12:15, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with this. I'm glad that he posted it before me as i could not have done it with such precision. Unreasonable commotion has accommodated this page ever since the news came up. It should just be noted inside the post-retirement section and excluded from infobox. Also, do you have any vision on how can we make talk page discussions more responsive? The inactivity at article talk pages is making consensus a scarce resource these days. Pesticide1110 Lets wrestle! 03:41, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Among the other 4 sources already provided above, there are also Soccerway, worldfootball, national-football-teams, transfermartk etc. which also doesnt include him as a Chelsea senior player, and no transfers after 2019 are recorded in "Transfers & Loans" section on Soccerway or Worldfootball, so there are literally ZERO reasons to inlcude "Chelsea 2020–" in infobox as this would be WP:OR and against all sources. And even if he was apparently registered for the 2020-21 premierleague he is not really, as only the other four keepers are listed as Chelsea players on premierleague.com...even Abramovich can be registered as a COVID emergency non-contract player if they want to, and that doesnt mean that he is part of the squad now, neither that he will play. Snowflake91 (talk) 13:39, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

text: how is it original research? chelsea literally said he;s in their squad.Muur (talk) 22:49, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: They literally didnt include him in the first team squad on the website, and he was in 25-man matchday squad exactly 0 times during 2020-21. Snowflake91 (talk) 23:06, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: in that case, phil jones isnt a man united player. also you have 18 day match squads, not 25.  you saying this other stuff is original research.Muur (talk) 23:29, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

text: Jones is listed at PL squad and United website, but where is Cech? He is NOWHERE listed as a squad member, because he is not contracted as a player, he is a techical analyser and we wont include infobox "career" just because they included him as an emergency non-contracted backup. And by the way, even if you would include it, in which year would his "spell" end? 2020? 2021? Or maybe never, because there wont be an info like "Cech is no longer goalkeeper at Chelsea", because he never was in the first place, so would you have "Chelsea 2020–present" for 10 years then? Snowflake91 (talk) 09:23, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: for only the 20-21 season obviously, unless they register him for this season too. chelsea included him, meaning he was registered. should be all thats needed really. a quick google and apparently newcastle didnt register Christian Atsu for their 25 man squad for the 20/21 season. do we not count him for the 20-21 season as a result? and have him as a free agent in 2020 instead of 2021?Muur (talk) 09:17, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Atsu was included at their official website, Cech never was, so he was never an active first-team squad member, so no inclusion in infobox. Being registered as an EMERGENCY player doesnt mean anything, this was a one-off expection made by the FA due to Covid, and this emergency player doesnt even need to have a full-time contract, they could literally register anyone that is employed at the club. Snowflake91 (talk) 09:30, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

text: According to the FA handbook of 2019-20 (Google cache result of theFA.com pdf file) players can have one of several statuses - Contract Player; Non-Contract; Work Experience; Scholar; Short Term Loan; Long Term Loan; Youth Loan. Any of the others would be recorded in a Wikipedia infobox, so why shouldn't a non-contract player? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 19:11, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Because Chelsea never announced him as a signing, never included him in the squad list on the official website, and was also not included on the Premier League official website as Chelsea player (Karlo Žiger was listed as the fourth-choice goalkeeper for 2020-21), just because he was registered as a temporary emergency backup non-contracted player due to covid protocols it doesnt mean he is a senior squad member, his official job at the club since 2019 is techical advisor and all profiles are having him as "retired" since May 2019. And we dont list every single player with the contract in the infobox - for example, half of those players are actually members of the reserve squad, playing for Chelsea U23 in Premier League 2, and we dont list reserve appearances and careers in infoboxes, Cech actually played one game for the reserves, so he was with this squad if anything, and this is not worth including in infobox since he was never with the first team squad in any of the 60 matches that Chelsea played in 2020-21. Snowflake91 (talk) 20:01, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Was Cech registered as a non-contract player for the 2020–21 season with Chelsea? Yes. Every player *does* have the club in their senior career information in the infobox, i.e. whoever "Teddy Sharman-Lowe" is clearly has Chelsea in his senior career infobox, despite never making any kind of appearance for the first-team, and I'm pretty sure he isn't included in any of those lists you mentioned at the top of this talk-page section (Premier League, Chelsea website). See also, former Chelsea academy player Jimmy Smith who has returned to the club as a youth coach and occasional U23 player. See also, Paul McShane at Manchester United who has the exact same role. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 10:16, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Irrelevant to his professional career, he officially retired in May 2019 and thats it, he never "came out of retirement". And Template:Infobox football biography clearly says that for "club" parameter we incude only the clubs that the player was contracted to, which Cech was not. There are also sources like this, which confirms that he is retired since 2019. That brief emergency registration is irrelevant, Premier League granted one emergency non-contract spot only because of Covid and it could have been cancelled as early as one week after he was registered, we don't know as there are no info about this so we cannot include "Chelsea 2020–present" in infobox. And Paul McShane should clearly be deleted from infobox, he signed specifically for the under23s and not the senior team, again we dont include u23s in the infobox. Even thought they are under the same organization, the U23s and women's teams are actually different legal entities and are registered separately, so he never signed for Manchester United but for the Manchester United U23s. Snowflake91 (talk) 11:08, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's irrelevant to his professional career that he was named in Chelsea's 25 man squad and could have made an appearance? That NYT article does say he retired in 2019, but it also says he was "dragged back to a life he thought he had left behind" and "we were short a goalkeeper, so the solution was either I stepped in, or a goalkeeping coach did. I was fit, so I said OK". You say the registration "could have been cancelled as early as one week"... but it wasn't? And is still irrelevant as he could have played for the first team in that mythical week. We do know he was registered for Chelsea's team for last season and the 25 man squad isn't randomly changed on the 1st day of 2021. He was registered to play for the club last season, so if he had played you're saying it wouldn't have been included in the infobox? "Legal entities" are completely irrelevant when it's blatantly the same club, and under 23 squad players can play for the first team (and I hate to break it to you, I'm pretty sure Paul McShane can't play for the Manchester United women's team). It wasn't a symbolic role, he was registered as a player last season. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 14:01, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Here is the list of all 56 players that were registered and could have played for Chelsea in 2020-21 Premier League campaign, and Cech is not listed even though there are SIX goalkeepers on that list. Covid non-contract spot is NOT a regular registration, we dont even know how that worked, just by saying in that interview that they could have register a goalkeeping coach (45 years old) tells everything, apparently they had to register someone out of the staff members and they chose Cech for obvious reasons, but that doesnt mean he is a professional full squad member now. Snowflake91 (talk) 16:11, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Imagine thinking Willian, who was sold in August, was named in Chelsea's 25 man squad, announced in October. Imagine thinking the same about Tiémoué Bakayoko, Pedro, Michy Batshuayi, Marco van Ginkel, Mario Pašalić, Lewis Baker, Ross Barkley, Davide Zappacosta, Victor Moses, all of whom left before the season started and were definitely not registered with Chelsea when the season started, and therefore were not named in Chelsea's 25 man Premier League squad as Petr Cech demonstrably was. And we do in fact know how it worked, as there are examples in the past of players signing non-contract terms with a club and it being a part of their professional career i.e. Ipswich signing Alan Lee, Barnet signing Matthew Briggs, Brentford signing Emmanuel Ledesma, Wycombe signing Ben Frempah, Crawley signing Mark Wright. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 13:17, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this thread requires some more football experts who would act as an intermediary. Both the parties have presented strong arguments till now (Kesha having the upper-hand, in my opinion, by a fine margin). Although i, from a general perspective, lean towards Snowflake's resolution, but i barely know anything about association football.  fixed a messed-up football article really well the other day so perhaps he can help. Pesticide1110 Lets wrestle! 02:48, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox career 

message: I would lean against calling him a professional ice hockey player as he is only on loan in the professional league. But would welcome any input. Apparently, his parent club is semi-professional but don't know if that warrents being called a professional player. Mn1548 (talk) 16:36, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Professional Ice Hockey Player