Talk:Turntablism

message: Turntablism is currently used on Wikipedia to describe techniques such as scratching, which was developed by Grand Wizard Theodore in the early eighties, long before DJ Babu supposedly coined a term for what this article describes as scratching. Hyacinth 03:52, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Turntablism"

message: I think this is a bit too narrow. 
OK, the following is discussed under "history". Nevertheless turntablism is not just Hip Hop.
Turntablism can be found well outside Hip Hop. I think of Christian Marclay, Philip Jeck and Otomo Yoshihide (among others) who have used the turntable in their own rights.
I'm also missing links to Pierre Schaeffer and John Cage. They did turntable works long befor Hip Hop.  Stefan Beck (www.scratchbeck.net)
Also as mentioned towards the end of the article there has been a bit of a split with turntablism and hip hop. It is used less and less in actual hip hop and also more and more in rock. It started as a sup group of hip hop but it has become a simple mastery of an instrument. You wouldn't say guitar is a sub genre of rock, it's just an instrument that can, and often is, used in that type of music.Pwright329
~Again, very good point Pwright. Turntablism came before hip-hop as is dicussed on the main page. Hip-hop turntablism is different.  I don't know if i agree about turntablism being used less in hip-hop and more in rock. Turntablism is more rare in rock. Turntablists almost always use hip-hop beats. Rap, hip-hop, trip-hop, acid jazz, dub, breaks, instrumentals. These all have the core of a hip-hop/rap beat. If you watch DJ competitions these days it's almost all hip-hop music. There was a lot of dance in the past, but that was when it was just beat mixing. Since scratching, and juggling, it's been dominently rap/hip-hop. You said "You wouldn't say guitar is a sub genre of rock"  A Genre is the type of music. The guitar is an instrument that is used to create different types of music. The turntable can be used as an instrument the same as a guitar. Some will argue this, but the turntable has been an established instrument for a long time. I learned to play the trumpet much easier that I learned to beat juggle. So I would go as far as to say that not only can the turntable be an instrument, the skill set required is more advanced then other classic instruments.  Turntablism is a sub-element of hip-hop. Hip-hop is often referred to as a genre of music, but it's actually a culture containing 4 elements: Rapping/MC'ing, hip-hop style dancing/breaking, Grafitti, and DJ'ing. DJ'ing can then be broken down into elements: Mixing, Scratching and beat juggling, collectively known as Turntablism. Turntablism is also considered a genre/type of music by some. This music is hip-hop based containing mixing, scratching and juggling. If you are talking about Turntablism as a genre/type of music, then yes, it's a sub genre of hip-hop. But turntablism is an art form that technically could use any genre/type of music. Calling turntablism a type of music is like calling hip-hop a type of music.  Hip-hop is the culture, the genre/type of music is "Rap". Turntablism is an Art, the genre/type of music usually rap, but can be anything.  --DJBryson 18:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turntablism is a subgenre of hip hop? 

message: How do people feel about the change made here?  It's a big change. -- BillWeiss | Talk 02:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Large edit 

message: I just made a big edit to this section.  What I did:
* Removed names of DJs (etc) that weren't wikilinked.
* Removed names of DJs (etc) which didn't have wiki pages.  This and the above item were done to remove less notable names.
* Minor rewording.
My reasoning is, this isn't a list of new school turntablists.  It should just be representative of the group that are influenced by the old-school.
Thoughts? -- BillWeiss | Talk 18:27, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New School section 

message: User:VT ConQuest is adding quite a bit of material about "Visual Turntablism" and their own work (diff shows the changes over more than 50 edits).  As well, this is the only thing that this user has done on WP (Special:Contributions/VT_ConQuest).  What do people think?  I'm tempted to call the whole thing vandalism (given the huge changes with a seemingly self-serving purpose), but I'm not sure. -- BillWeiss | Talk 15:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "VT" content 

message: The article is very thurough but it isn't written in an encyclopedic manner:
"Alongside the evolution of scratching, which deserves an article in itself"
I think the language in the article should be revised.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Redslap (talk • contribs) 14:39, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language in the article 

message: I've just removed this from the "Turntablist (DJ/Turntablist): Second evolution of the artist" section.  No one will be happy with any subset of DJs we can have there, so we can just leave it at "New DJs, turntablists and crews".  Thoughts?
-- BillWeiss | Talk 18:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Partial list of "new-school DJs" 

message: It says this in the summary's first paragraph at the end.  Seems like vandalism, but I'm not knowledgeable enough about this subject to know.
75.73.244.170 23:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turntablism is the brother of canabilism. 

message: I'm 99% sure that I invented scratching in a similar manner.  So this article needs to be revised to show that Grand Wizard Yuriy was the first person to ever move a record under a stylus faster than the intended speed (in either direction) causing the sound we now associate with "scratching."  I did it in 1957, before stereophonic records.  I'll leave it to you to fix the error (obviously I'll provide the citation).
24.45.3.186 (talk) 09:09, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd love to see that reference. Can you post it here? -- BillWeiss | Talk 16:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Interesting.  Is there any chance you have that around and a scanner?  I would love to see the article.  Once I've seen it I would be happy to help you revise the article. -- BillWeiss | Talk 20:29, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually this was done long before, in the 1920s by Dada artists. csloat (talk) 19:36, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  scratching 

message: Jeebus, guys. I have to change the section names as unencyclopedic, sorry. Also the VT stuff must be severely cut due to concerns about undue weight. And the thing in the lead about this being a new form in 94 (rather than a new word) which the article contradicts. 86.44.6.14 (talk) 09:32, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: new section names, editing VT info

message: I'm sort of shocked that any discussion of turntablism can go on without a mention of DJ Krush, who was certainly there early before the term was used to describe solo hip hop DJs.
198.146.95.35 (talk) 20:07, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: DJ Krush

message: That's a sad mixer for any DJ but a turntablist.  I would suggest Rane TTM56 but for overall agreement I think a Vestax PMC05 or PMC07 would be a better selection as an example. from SqrachMasda  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.28.209 (talk) 01:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Blaxthos just changed it to a picture of a full DVS system with CDJs and computers ... this is a step in the right direction, but this article is about turntablism, not about DVS or CDJ styles (although the latter have been incorporated into turntablist repertoires).  My other problem with the photo is the product placement - it's almost an ad for Torq DVS software.  I'd much prefer to see a photo of actual turntables here -- the type that spin vinyl, the original tool of turntablists.  I'll look for a better photo when I can but if someone else beats me to it please do!  Thanks csloat (talk) 19:33, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: that mixer?!

message: Let me comment that it is well to take this subject seriously because the use of the turntable in this way is everywhere.  However, anyone who thinks that the turntable is a musical instrument instead of a sound effect maker has a defect in their appreciation of music.  I have not checked to see if there are similar articles on washboardism, spoonism, kneeslappism, bucketism, or as one might add to the list from Willis Alan Ramsey's first album, wallsandfloorsism..... I merely say that a link to "Sound Effect" is justified and necessary. 67.9.148.203 (talk) 17:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  I added a link to the wikipedia article "Sound Effect" 

message: Beat mixing and beat juggling were both extremely common during the disco era -- for me, one of the most interesting aspects of the disco "scene."  Based on the content of the article to date, that makes disco the first genre in which turntablism was used as a performing art, which surely merits mention.  Perhaps someone with some knowledge of the subject could add a little information about that? --Tedd (talk) 16:00, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disco? 

message: This article has a good base of information that is related to the subject of Turntablism, however, is lacking much needed citation. I noticed that there are appropriate links of people or terms that are already in existence in Wikipedia, which is a good start, but additional information requires citation. For example: 
*When discussing Kool Herc's break-beat djing, your information is something which I've come across before in a book called Can't Stop Won't Stop by Jeff Chang on page 112. That book would be a valid source to cite the information you are relaying in the Hip-Hop section of the article.
Also, I noticed that there are further readings listed at the bottom of the page. Did you get some of your information from those readings? If so, cite them!
On the topic of citations, the first one that is listed is not accessible anymore and a there aren't enough credible book/established publication/established organization-type that are being used. Just generally, all information needs to be cited with credible sources in order for this article to be a well-supported one!
My last note is on bias. In order to keep this article like an encyclopedia article, bias needs to be eliminated. One example of this in the article is: 
*The type of DJ that specializes in mixing is well respected for his own set of unique skills, but playlist mixing is still DJing in the traditional sense.
That statement is an opinion and also, what do you mean by the traditional sense in regards to DJing?
</br>
--Tyeargin92 (talk) 23:06, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opinion and Citations 

message: I'm not sure this quote is necessary in this article. It is awkwardly placed and the content doesn't really add to the quality of the article either. Would it be ok if I removed it?
John Oswald described the art: "A phonograph in the hands of a 'hiphop/scratch' artist who plays a record like an electronic washboard with a phonographic needle as a plectrum, produces sounds which are unique and not reproduced—the record player becomes a musical instrument."[2]
Leonai J (talk) 16:51, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove quote? 

message: This section is almost entirely about the alienation of women in DJing and does not highlight any of the achievements or influences women have had in turntablism and in hip-hop DJing culture. We should work on fixing this, a good place to start would be by noting and giving credit to specific female DJs in the industry.  Leonai J (talk) 17:04, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Women and Turntablism 

message: This paragraph clearly expresses an opinion. I am not sure whether to edit it to remove the bias or to remove the paragraph entirely because it seems out of place and incoherent where it currently exists. Any thoughts?
"On stage the DJ would provide the music for the MCs to rhyme to, scratching records during the performance and showcasing his skills alongside the verbal skills of the MC. The most well known example of this 'equation' of MCs and DJ is probably Run-D.M.C. who were composed of two MCs and one DJ. The DJ, Jam Master Jay, was an integral part of the group since his turntablism was critical to Run DMC's productions and performances."
Leonai J (talk) 17:16, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hip hop bias 

message: This article was tagged in December 2008 as needing more inline citations. That is over 8 years ago. Are more citations needed now?--Dthomsen8 (talk) 23:50, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  More references added since December 2008? 

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thread_title:  External links modified