Talk:Kinder Scout

message: Can anyone provide a source for this translation of Kinder Scout as meaning Water over the edge in Norse? I couldnt find this in a breif search of online Norse dictionaries. Also  iI found this quote from 
: "This obscure hill-name appears to be of pre-English origin, but the material is not adequatefor any certain etymology. It is the name of the highest hill in the Peak District."
K.Cameron, "The Place-Names of Derbyshire", 1959, p115 quoted in  
Billlion 17:34, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I orginally put that it, I rembered reading it in a OS guide-book. I found this on't'web: . Grinner 14:21, Jan 4, 2005 (UTC)
The etymology of "Kinder Scout" was discussed in 1880! (p71 in Manchester notes and queries. Ed. by J.H. Nodal. Vol.1-8 published by Manchester city news, 1880).  One proposal therein suggested Kinder might be related to Kintire or Kintyre (from the gaelic caenn=head/point and tir=country/territory). Scout is more difficult.. maybe from the anglo-Saxon sceotan=shoot (just on example from the same source) as in "skeet" (clay pigeon shooting) which would be related to the waterfall (shooting over not shooting flying discs!).  I like the idea (yes, OR!!) of Kintire's Cut (etymology of cut is straightforward meaning sliced or carved with a knife)or Kinder Scut?? (just as "a napron" became "an apron"). Viewed from the right direction Kinder Scout looks like a high piece of land that has a deep flesh wound!Softwarestorage (talk) 21:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Hmm. Exactly when was Gaelic supposed to have been spoken in Derbyshire...? Paul S (talk) 00:56, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose "celtic" might be a better term than "gaelic".  Celtic was spoken all over England, and the Anglo-Saxons simply took over or misunderstood some of the placenames.  Hence, for instance, the large numbers of rivers Avon, Avon simply meaning River in celtic.--Martin Wyatt (talk) 14:13, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, no, because this "Kintyre" derivation specifically requires a Gaelic Q-Celtic word like the Irish ceann and not like the Brythonic P-Celtic penn. Paul S (talk) 23:35, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Dubious, pre-modern scholarship. There don't seem to be any other scout placenames in England and OE sceot wouldn't give modern English scout. Paul S (talk) 01:27, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Two and a quarter years on I've come across Scout Scar and guess what? - it has those horizontal bands of rock. Richerman   (talk) 22:06, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Water over the edge?

message: The principal effects of the Kinder Trespass well pre-date Right to Roam, surely - The fact that a large area of the 'Dark Peak' was declared (many years ago) as 'Open Country' was the main effect. The CRoW bill was more a consequence of continuing access problems in upland areas like the Arans etc...
Linuxlad 20:28, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I see what you're saying, but I think it is fair to regard the "right to roam" enshrined in the CRoW act as the culmination of the campaign that began with the Kinder trespass.Grinner 09:48, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)
What it needs is a sentence _before_ the CRoW reference, to the earlier land designated 'open country' in the High Peak (many years pre-CRoW,and indeed dating from the Park's inception IIRC). (now done)
see also
http://www.peakdistrict.org/crow/map.htm
for the land so designated before and after 9/04
This issue came up over the Dartmoor article where the guy there claimed that that was the first English National Park to have 'open access' land, when it clearly wasn't. Linuxlad 14:33, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Access Land

message: I have a book here called The King's England. Written in 1937, it was intended to be a multi-part "Domesday book", and covers most villages in the UK. I have the Derbyshire book. Under the entry for Hayfield, it says something a little strange: "... Kinderscount, the great tableland wild and savage in rock and ravine.... culminating in the height of Kinder Low, where unknown men are sleeping in a mound 2088 feet above the sea."
I'm not sure if this is just flowery language, or whether he's saying there's a burial site there. What do you think? 86.135.161.239 (talk) 18:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently there is a barrow up there: http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=12172 --VinceBowdren (talk) 22:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See also http://www.magic.gov.uk/rsm/23271.pdf Dave.Dunford (talk) 08:42, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kinder Low - burial site?  

message: It is fine to have a link to the Hayfield website, but saying that it is the largest village that is a gateway to Kinder Scout is just advertising.  The other village that is a "gateway to Kinder Scout" is Edale, which is probably better known as one end of the Pennine Way.
--MWLittleGuy (talk) 18:21, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: Does anyone know whether there is a line of sight from Kinder Scout to see the Great Orme on a very clear day? DFH (talk) 16:02, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This computer-generated panorama suggests that you can see nearby Bleaklow from the Great Orme (between 080° and 090°), so it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that the Great Orme can be seen from Kinder (though the Kinder panorama at http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/panoramas/ENG/KINDERSCOUT.GIF doesn't mention it explicitly, and the hills around Prestatyn may be in the way). Dave.Dunford (talk) 14:01, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Closer examination of http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/panoramas/WAL/GREAT%20ORME.gif appears to show some high ground south of Bleaklow, which must surely be the Kinder plateau (although it's not labelled as such), and the hills above Prestatyn are further to the southeast, so it seems plausible that the reverse view is possible. Whether you'd be able to pick out the Great Orme at a distance of more than 80 miles in practice is another matter. I've confidently identified Snowdon (over 90 miles away) from the Peak District, but Snowdon is rather more prominent than the Great Orme! Dave.Dunford (talk) 14:09, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Line of sight to the Great Orme? 

message: I propose that Mermaid's Pool (Peak District) be merged into Kinder Scout. The former was originally created as a joke, and although it's improved since, I doubt it will ever grow much beyond its current stubby incarnation. I suggest incorporating its information into the section "Mermaid legend" (which should perhaps be retitled "Mermaid's Pool"). Dave.Dunford (talk) 22:27, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: That said, there's quite a lot of information (albeit acknowledged folklore) at http://mondrem.net/myths/Mermaids_Pool.html. Dave.Dunford (talk) 22:33, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have a strong view on this, but I think I'd be inclined to leave it separate at least for the time being, for 2 reasons: first, the Mermaid's Pool article gets a reasonable volume of reader traffic (averaging about 30 per day over the last 3 months), and second because the Kinder Scout article is actually rather short itself, so significant expansion of the Mermaid's Pool section within it might make the article a bit unbalanced, with lots about the folklore attached to just one small pool, but nothing (as yet) about management or ecology, for example, which are surely more important. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:40, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair points. Likewise, I don't feel strongly, but the notability of the Mermaid's Pool article has been questioned so I thought I'd see what opinion was here. Happy to let sleeping dogs lie. Dave.Dunford (talk) 18:03, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Following the merging of Jacob's Ladder, Derbyshire into this article, should we reconsider the above? Dave.Dunford (talk) 14:53, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal