Talk:Te Pāti Māori

message: Copied from my talk page: The Maori Party (is) definitely (a) fascist organisation, as....one of the leaders of the so-called Maori Party, Tariana Turia was directly involved in leading illegal occupations of both private property & public parks (most notably, Moutoa Gardens in Wanganui back in 1995). Tariana Turia is hated by a lot of people. There are some people in Wanganui who want her to be put to death for treason, which the illegal occupation of Moutoa Gardens was. That is why (this) organisation must be listed as (a) fascist organisation. - (Aidan Work 03:40, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Template whose 1st addition incited by a sockpuppeting trollery removed. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 10:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

text: "Worldwide" ? Isn't this party only in NZ? 68.39.174.238 (talk) 10:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Facist? Definitely not. Racist? Now there's another question. Just consider the recent profanity laden outburst by one of their MP's against Whites. Alternatively just consider their aims. Race based ownership, mandating cultural indoctrination ... Yes okay minor slant with that last bit. You get the idea though.203.25.1.208 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 23:48, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Fascist?

message: I for one consider the Maori Party to be racist. Consider some of the comments by their MP's... race based ownership of land, important land at that. How about someone mention that for the prior 3 elections, Maori Party has always sided with the majority. Just another way to hold onto power. I won't create it, since I am biased of course, but someone with a NPOV could do a write up? Cheers 119.224.9.55 (talk) 23:45, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Most articles do not have criticism sections, and there are differing views amongst Wikipedians on whether such sections are desirable. See WP:CRIS. The articles New Zealand Labour Party, New Zealand National Party, ACT New Zealand and Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand do not have criticism sections.-gadfium 01:59, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is there not a criticism section? 

message: Does the Maori Party have contact with other indigenous political parties and social movements in the Pacific Basin, North America and elsewhere? If so, this would be a valuable addition to this entry. Perhaps there should also be a Wikipedia category to this effect.
Calibanu (talk) 03:50, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Other indigenous political movements?

message: Apart from being a racial discrimination if "Maoris" (all?) retire at 60, and the rest of New Zealanders retire years later, it is ridiculous because both leaders of the Maori Party are over 60 years old.--83.53.166.189 (talk) 02:32, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You confuse "retire" with "receive superannuation"? Paople can retire at 30 if they like, but nobody qualifies for super until they are 65 years old. Neither Maori, Pakeha nor Clan Uncle Tom Cobleigh. Moriori (talk) 02:57, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: RETIREMENT AGE AT 60?

message: “Socialism of the 21st Century” has been a political ideology and movement within the context of Latin America. I see this listed under the Maori Party’s ideology in the infobox. I clicked on history and this seems to be a recent addition by an unknown person. Could some one elaborate as to why this may be added to the party’s description? Does the party have any connection to Latin American Bolivarians? I'm not aware that they do. Perhaps this label isn't precise for the Maori Party. 71.89.74.239 (talk) 03:08, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed it and other recent changes to ideology as unsourced.-gadfium 20:49, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Socialism of the 21st Century

message: The article does not state that this is a right wing party despite the party going into coalition with a centre-right party and having many Right wing views?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.48.17.17 (talk) 01:00, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's more complicated than that. The party doesn't comfortably fit in the left/right wing spectrum because its ideology is for indigenous rights. What might be useful is to find some authoritative sources saying that the party is left or right wing, and we could add their opinions to the article.-gadfium 03:58, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Political Position

message: Substituted at 00:44, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure)  Bada Kaji (talk • श्रीमान् गम्भीर) 10:50, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Māori Party →  – I've noticed most news articles about the party these days refer to the party as Te Pāti Māori. It also refers to itself as Te Pāti Māori (see its website). YttriumShrew (talk) 22:13, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

text: Oppose Most news articles still call it "Māori Party", more so than "Te Pāti Māori".  Nixinova   T   C   04:07, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 22 September 2021 

message: Isn't the "Te" in Te Reo Māori a "the" by itself? So in, "Officially restore the Te Reo Māori names for all towns, cities and place names," under Renaming New Zealand Campaign, isn't the "the" before "te" obsolete? I may be wrong, or perhaps there's a particular Wikipedia practice I'm unaware of when it comes to non-English? CallidSea (talk) 01:52, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Kia ora. I’ve fixed it. Schwede66 08:21, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Double grammatical article 

message: Since when is a thesis paper by a student a reliable source for a citation? The party is clearly focused on Māori rights. I don't object to talking about a possible liberal stance in the "principles and policy" section if it is correctly cited using a reliable and independent source that complies with WP:SYNTH but to describe the party as a liberal party in a general overview sense in the lead definitely seems like overkill for this party. Helper201 (talk) 14:39, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: , when you reject theses outright one gets the impression that you’ve never read WP:SOURCETYPES. The discussion there about theses is much more nuanced. For example, for a master thesis, it would make a big difference who supervised the work. An expert in their field? That would lend a lot of credibility to it. This is a general reply; I have not checked who was involved in this particular case. Schwede66 17:33, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't find out who supervised the work. The only name I can see mentioned is Butler, Jesse Waiariki Temanava, who doesn't seem to have any Wikipedia page and I can find nothing related to their credibility. The source is also about "liberal culturalism", so it’s debatable whether this extends to justifying the claim that the party holds a liberal political ideology as a whole in so far as complying with WP:SYNTH. Would that mean its "social liberal", just simply "liberal", "economic liberal", "classical liberal" etc? The source is also from 2007, so we could really do with something much more up-to-date than a 15-year-old source. Helper201 (talk) 16:36, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liberalism 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved. Both "Māori Party" and "Te Pāti Māori" have been demonstrated to be common enough that we can't just say one is the definitive common name or not. 
Additionally, New Zealand English is distinguished from other English dialects through its common acceptance of Māori vocabulary; in effect, though the words may be Māori in origin, they are still used in English speech. Compare with Uluru in Australia; in English speech, the use of its Pitjantjatjara name is greater than the use of its English name.
At the end of the day, this purely comes down to a headcount, which is in favour of moving. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 23:36, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Māori Party →  – Name the party refers to itself as, including in English. News media, including those which are traditionally more conservative and less likely to use Māori, are also more frequently using Te Pāti Māori than "the Māori Party" when compared to when the previous move was proposed. Turnagra (talk) 21:47, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

text: With specific regard to BilledMammal's concerns over search results, they're about the same when I did a lookup, so—reiterating—I think it's reasonable to change the name given it's more prominently used in mainstream news, overall search results are about the same and it calls itself Te Pāti Māori. Carolina2k22 • (talk) • (edits) 05:50, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The difference here is that "Te Pāti Māori" is the name that this party now uses in all English language media - for example, its own web site: .  With one exception, the countries that you list above do not have English as a major language, and so their political parties will likely use different names or spellings internally than we do in the English Wikipedia.  The exception is India, which has English as a major language.  In your list of the national political parties in India, each of them has an English-language web site that uses the same name that's used in the English Wikipedia.  So, if anything, your examples actually lend weight to the Support case. PatricKiwi (talk) 21:40, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The Maori party do not use te pati Maori on their official website universally. For example, in their policy sections. They clearlty alternate between the two, as does news media. We also need to consider WP:CRITERIA, including the title is one that readers are likely to look or search for, which will almost certainly be "the Maori party". --Spekkios (talk) 21:57, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 3 December 2022 

message: Given the recent edit warring around how exactly to word the lede, I've reverted it to how it appeared prior to the first change and wanted to open this to get a discussion going and hopefully a consensus. Through the last couple days, there have been several different ledes, including:
* Te Pāti Māori, also known as the Māori Party, is a...
* Te Pāti Māori () is a ...
* Te Pāti Māori, also known in English as the Māori Party, is a...
Personally, my concern with the latter two are that they imply that Te Pāti Māori isn't used in English, which is contrary to what the above move request and recent sources demonstrate. I'm open to what people think the best approach is, but I think it's far better to have that conversation here rather than through an unconstructive edit war. 
Pinging editors who have been involved: @Rreagan007 @5.81.63.77 @Vif12vf @LilianaUwU. Turnagra (talk) 23:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I'll go with Option 1, as it doesn't imply that the Māori name isn't used in English. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 23:03, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

text: Option 1 is best for the reason given by Turnagra. Schwede66 23:19, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Option 1 and 2 would be the most common solutions, based on what is done elsewhere. Option 3 seems a bit awkward in my opinion. Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 02:39, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede phrasing