Talk:History of Somalia (1991–2006)

message: As of October 2014, this article seriously gives undue weight to "positive" aspects.  According to the head of a Libertarian think tank, the situation has improves, because according to a set of criteria designed by a Libertarian think tank and their assessment of it, Somalia now scores higher than before.  The article goes on to discuss those in detail.  As discussed earlier on the talk page, the article talks by comparison very little about all the problems Somalia is facing.  The fact that a very large part of Somalis still live abroad, that most of the country is unsafe, and that, at the latest measurement, it had the 4th lowest HDI in the world, are not or not much discussed.  This article needs serious improvement and is certainly not a "Good article". --Gerrit CUTEDH 18:51, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a few factual errors above. First, the fact that a country has a large diaspora is not necessarily an indication of its well-being. There are, for example, many more Lebanese in Brazil than in Lebanon itself. Somalia's diaspora is nowhere near as large; neither proportionately nor in absolute terms. Second, the Islamist insurgency was going on in the southern part of the country; the north, then as now, was largely peaceful (the insurgency is btw almost over after the launch in August of Operation Indian Ocean). Third, the social indicators during the period are indeed mentioned on the page. However, the Human Development Index isn't because Somalia was at the time not ranked. Fourth, this page was on the period when there was no permanent central government. However, there indeed were interim government strutures in the country starting in 2000; namely, the Transitional National Government (2000-2004) and the Transitional Federal Government (2004-2012). Lastly, this page was promoted to good article status, so clearly it does have many merits. Middayexpress (talk) 19:14, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: When 7-8% of the entire population are officially classed as refugees, a diaspora is very good indication of its well-being. And, as you correctly point out, interim government structures and a functioning government and judiciary in semi-autonomous Somaliland existed, and yet the article places undue weight on commentary suggesting Somalia represented well-functioning anarchy. I'm unable to fathom how the article was ever classed as a "good article"; even if your viewpoint is quite close to those anarcho-capitalists whose analysis dominates it's still inappropriately structured, uneven, and badly-written, but it has changed significantly since that promotion, so I think it's reasonable to ask for it to be reassessedDtellett (talk) 15:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason why this page focuses on statelessness is because it used to be called Anarchy in Somalia. This was the period in southern Somalia immediately before the advent of the Islamist insurgency. At any rate, refugee status is transient (not permanent) and voluntary (not involuntary); it disappears the minute a claimant receives his or her legal papers. I also didn't mention Somaliland, nor was that northwestern region of Somalia the only part of the country that was not affected by the southern insurgency during the period at hand. The northeastern Puntland region largely wasn't either. Together, that was indeed the majority of the country. Middayexpress (talk) 19:34, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  October 2014, article still gives undue weight to "positive" aspects 

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thread_title:  Anarchist Somalia listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]