Talk:Orange Revolution/Archive 1

message: The Orange Revolution had happened before Slobodan Milosevic - it was a movement called the Orange Alternative in Poland, during the Solidarity uprising (early 1980-'s). The main idea was to avoid communist repression and censors, by doing alternative, sometimes surrealistic protests which did not directly attacked the Power, but everybody knows, that it was a way to make fun and humiliate the regime. 
Witold
Time to put an orange on the Seder plate, perhaps? Rickyrab 01:10, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Orange Alternative in Poland

message: How do you make a page for deletion? this "revoulition" is nothing more then Ukraine's fighting back against authortarians, while noble, its not something that deserves an encylopedia reference Pellaken 13:55, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Some might argue that an event occupying the attention of a country of 50 million for weeks, which has seen rallies of hundreds of thousands, and influencing its democratic future, is even more significant than the Prince Edward Island Draft Beer Party.  But if you think you can get more support for deleting this than the fifty or more Wikipedians who have contributed to this article, you can learn about the procedure at Wikipedia:Deletion policy.  Good luck. —Michael Z.
Should the "current event" tag be removed? It's doubtful that new stuff will be coming in rapidly about this. Mntlchaos 08:20, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestiong to delete article+"current" tag

message: Could Irpen or whoever claims the "alarm" please provide a reference here. I watched very closely the event of the Orange Revolution and don't recall a single polical figure in the Orange movement, who expressed any kind of alarm, except for the alarm of Yushchenko doing too little to remove Kuchma. Please post a reference. Thanks--Andrew Alexander 07:34, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Political figures on Yushchenko's side obviously didn't say anything even if they would silently disaprove it. If you have read the press coverage, you would have seen a moderate amount of unease about this even among the liberal observers. You can also go check the forum archives and since you are an expert in the forum usage, I don't need to point you to specific sites. --Irpen 07:37, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Were the "observers" anonimous? It was "supporters" you are talking about in the article. Which supporters? Can I hear at least one name?--Andrew Alexander 09:29, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Alarmed" by the Presidential Oath

message: I added an underground server info to the article. Please correct/expand. Also, I added a "fraud" section heading that preceeds the "protests" section and added more Wikilinks. I think the article may be made a Featured Article Candidate within a reasonable effort. Since this is one of the few UA-related topics that may generate interest, making it a Featured would finally bring the wider WP attention to Ukraine. While the History of Kiev is also reasonably detailed, it need much work and the reality is that the world would be more interested to read about the O.R. than about Kiev.  
Are we ready yet for peer review? I hope this article won't be butchered though for POV reasons. Please avoid inflamatory rhetoric in reponse. --Irpen 03:45, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: underground server and [[WP:FAC]]

message: Is that true that "Ukrainians living in Russia were also transported home in order to vote." ?
Would they not be allowed to vote if they stayed abroad (i.e. in Russia) ? --Lysy (talk) 21:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This was a subject of another controversy. The government that backed Yanukovych wanted to set up voting places all over Russia where, with the lack of monitors, they could provide any number of pro-Yanukovych votes. The opposition managed to stall the effort using the pressure and, if I remember correctly, physical blocking the Rada and Electoral Commission (headed by pro-Yanukovych Kivalov) from  implement the change in the law before the consitutional deadline. When the government finally passed their wanted changes (past the deadline) the Supreme Court invalidated them for the very reason that they were passed past the deadline. So, Ukrainians in Russia could only vote in Ukrainian consulates, the same way as Ukrainians in any other country. --Irpen 21:21, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, that's pretty normal that people abroad vote at consulates. But why would they need to be "transported home in order to vote" ? --Lysy (talk) 21:26, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Russian involvement

message: This the name that polititians started to give to these revolutions. No mention in this article.--tequendamia 13:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banana revolution? 

message: The official count differed markedly from the exit poll results that gave Yushchenko up to an 11% lead, while official results gave the election win to Yanukovych by 3%. While Yanukovych supporters have claimed that Yushchenko's connections to the Ukrainian media explain this disparity, the Yushchenko team publicized evidence of many incidents of electoral fraud in favor of the government-backed Yanukovych, witnessed by many local and foreign observers.
Hasn't any one been smart enough to figure out that these exit polls were distorted by the partisan western imperialist institutes that operated them? Those that operated the exit polls were subversive outlets including the CIA's Freedom House.
Freedom House and the Democratic party's NDI helped fund and organise the "largest civil regional election monitoring effort" in Ukraine, involving more than 1,000 trained observers. They also organised exit polls. On Sunday night those polls gave Mr Yushchenko an 11-point lead and set the agenda for much of what has followed. 
The exit polls are seen as critical because they seize the initiative in the propaganda battle with the regime, invariably appearing first, receiving wide media coverage and putting the onus on the authorities to respond. 
Perhaps more to the point, Tatiana Silina of Zerkalo Nerdeli has reported in substantive detail on the various exit poll methods employed. She writes:
"In fact, there were at least three exit polls. The “National Exit Poll” had been prepared for about twelve months and covered widely enough. The NEP project, initiated and authored by the Democratic Initiatives foundation, was financially supported by eight foreign embassies and four international funds.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ukraine/story/0,15569,1360236,00.html
Other exit polls showed a more realistic picture:
Exit polls conducted through face-to-face interviews showed incumbent Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich garnering 42.67 percent, and opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko winning 38.28 percent, whereas anonymous polls (respondents fill out forms anonymously) showed contrary results, namely Yushchenko receiving 44.4 percent and Yanukovich getting 38 percent. 
The polls were conducted at 8 p.m. Moscow time, one hour prior to the closing of polling stations. Some 50,000 respondents took part in the polls."''
http://www.russiajournal.com/news/cnews-article.shtml?nd=46162
:Jacob Peters, please sign in, how many times I was asking you to do so. Now, instead of citing out of context pieces from the Zerkalo Nedeli, care to read the whole article, whose full English version is available online. --Irpen 06:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your entry shows you know quite little of Ukrainian politics. By the parliamentary election, the "Orange vote" was split between three parties and they combined actually widen the "orange" lead over the total of the "blue" vote collected by the PR+Communists. Second point is that the revote of the compromised runoff (won by Yuschenko with an 8% margin) was ran under the intence scrutiny, both international and from within Ukraine. Not a single observer from the PR party was excluded from the a single voting station both during the vote and during the post-vote counting. Next, the machinations with the illegal parallel server were obvious as well. The votes simply did not add up. Next, in certain  regions 30% or so voted by an absentee ballot, an easy way of the vote fraud. There are countless more examples which you won't here because you seem to have come to the article with the political agenda. However, your cherry-picked quotes are from an article in indeed highly respected Ukrainian newspaper. I simply suggested you to read all of it. --Irpen 07:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Absurd Propaganda