Talk:Derren Brown/Archive 1

message: Was Derren born "Darren"?
No, Derren was christened Derren. His full name is Derren Victor Brown.
So why was his stage name originally Darren as the article suggests? Magic Pickle 17:09, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's Derren's real name ? 

message: Minister Melvyn Nurse pointed a blank loaded gun on his temple while demonstrating to youth that "guns kill people." The shot shattered his skull.
TV-Actor Jon-Erik Hexum died similarly. 
Brandon Lee was killed by a prop bullet stuck in the barrel. 
Talamus 09:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blanks do can kill 

message: I wonder if it would be worth mentioning how the suggesting of chamber one was (apparently) done. The following is from a Google cache of someones usenet post, but it corresponds with my memory and I think it's accurate:
: If it fucks up it's not your fault.
: Right?
: Pick up the gun.
: Take the gun under the table.
: Can you see the numbers?
: Ok. Move it around a bit.
: Familiarise yourself with the numbers.
: Make sure you can see them clearly.
: I want you to choose one of these numbers.
: You keep that number to yourself and have a look at them now and choose one now.
: It doesn't matter which one it is you can change your mind as many times as you like.
: Would you make that decision for me and you settle on a number.
: Are you thinking of one now?  Yeah.
Evercat 23:45, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing as the bullet, live or otherwise, was in chamber one tends to tie in with the use of the word 'one' a number of times in Brown's instructions, and he had chosen a guy who was nervous and probably more susceptible to such an auto-suggestion. --TonyW 16:04, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)
I don't think Wikipedia is the place to include speculation as to how a magician's tricks are done. It's very easy to convince yourself that an apparent method is the 'only' way it could be done. Conan Doyle insisted the 'only' way Houdini could escape from handcuffs was to dematerialise his hands. The point of a good trick is that you can't work out how it's done. Wikipedia should contain confirmed facts, and not even reasoned arguments, let alone speculation. For what it's worth, I'm a friend of Derren, he asked me for advice when planning 'Russian Roulette' and no one has come close to the method in this discussion. More than that I'm not willing to say. --Scaramouche 14:02, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The end point is entertainment by awe. That has been achieved immensly by Derren in this show. With much anticipation and applause..:) -Procrastinating@talk2me 21:16, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

text: OK so the end result is entertainment - fine. But surely then Derren has no unique selling point. Any performer can hire an actor and pretend to play Russian Roulette with them. Therefore why are we watching Derren - because we believe there is the possibility he is really playing Russian Roulette. If it is a hoax, and there was no danger, there is no point in watching Derren. When you see a magician you wonder how the trick is performed but you know it is a trick. With Derren he seems to imply his performances are more 'real' than magic - but he's basically dressing up unskilful hoaxes. Which is less than 'magic'! Why only Simon Singh has bothered to publicly point this out is beyond me. Magic Pickle 17:19, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian roulette 

message: I've removed the following paragraphs:
:Whilst Brown is certainly the most successful 'psychological magician' by the yardstick of media exposure and television appearances, he is by no means a pioneer leave alone an originator in this field. American psychologist turned entertainer 'Marc Salem' has appeared on both sides of the Atlantic, in the theatre as well as on television, with his project 'Mind Games', receiving a critical acclaim which if anything exceeds that accorded Brown. Moreover British-Dutch magician 'David Berglas' was a household name in the 1960s and early 1970s with his intense, interactive television shows which drew heavily on his training as a psychotherapist at London's renown Tavistock Institute. The cult British-based performance artist / conceptual artist aladin likewise has formal training as a psychotherapist which he used to devastating effect in confounding the queues and VIP Room guests at nightclub The Ministry of Sound in the early 1990s with feats of apparent mind-reading.
:But Brown's astute use of the machinery of PR to cast him in the mould of a superstar have not unnaturally made it diffucult to see him objectively in the history of 'psychological entertainment'. None of this can detract from his current status as an exceptional magician however.
This may well be a good addition (if reworded to remove some POV) but I don't think that it's particularly appropriate here.  violet/riga (t) 17:26, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other 'Mind' magicians 

message: "Derren Brown asked a leading figure at a psychic training school to go into another room and draw a number of simple pictures on any topic they wished."
so. how many people were involded?
:There was just one person. I've modified the article to say 's/he' instead of 'they' to reflect this. If anyone knows the gender of the person drawing the pictures (I'm not sure), then by all means change the word to show the person's gender. -UK-Logician-2006 22:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: She - fixed.  violet/riga (t) 22:31, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarifications 

message: I'm suprised there is no mention of his exhibition of playing 9 chess games at once against some very good international players.
For the record, he finished with 5/9 points (winning overall), but if there is no article I won't say how it was "done".
Paddyohale 02:18, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chess Exhibition 

message: Surely this article needs an image of Derren Brown himself? It should not be that hard to find a fair use image. --Seth Turner 16:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: there has been a great full image of him that was removed ,I can't see the reason for it ,can you help ,or ask an admin to reopen the erased history logs ? --Procrastinating@talk2me 20:01, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The image was removed because the uploader failed to provide source information. When uploading images it is important to accurately provide their source and tag them correctly. The JPS 20:10, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, fair use doesnt require attribution (see Common misunderstandings), though it's generally a good idea to give it if you know the source. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 23:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That link you provide seems to suggest that just because a source is provided doesn't mean it is fair use, not that fair use doesn't need a source. The JPS 23:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: A few people at my work think he's really sexy....
I just wondered if this was a common view among the ladies of wikipedia (and any guys of course!!)
Wikipedia is not a forum. Minglex 17:17, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is he attractive? 

message: Hello, I've noticed throughout a lot of his shows that he has an exceptional memory and his patience for memorising and learning things are outstanding. In particular, his use of memory in his gambling days (such as memorising cards). Also, did anyone see the show where he explained how he uses an imaginary mansion in his mind to remember things, and he has a card room with 52 individual objects that he puts a note on when they come up in a game of cards? Another show which excercised his memory skills was when he memorised the OS map of London.
Is it worth creating a section about his memory skills? Gregh 16:23, 8 May 2006 (GMT)
Yes Minglex 20:35, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: if You mean his fucking amazing memory skills..than YES. :) --Procrastinating@talk2me 17:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A section about his memory skills 

message: Hey again. I saw his live show in 2005 and I thought it was excellent. I noticed that the section of the article regarding his show is very vague. Should it be expanded on with a detailed (or even vague) list of what he does/has done in his shows? Or at least a more extensive description of his tour. If my memory was sharp enough, I would write about the things he did during the show but the only thing I seem to remember is how awesome it was. What do people think? Gregh 16:26, 8 May 2006 (GMT)
::great. do it man. be bold.--Procrastinating@talk2me 18:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: During the stage show DB specifically asks that its contents is not discussed in public forums. However, when the show's run has finished and his management have confirmed that the show will not be repeated, I think it would be a great inclusion here. RichardShakeshaft 08:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  For those who have seen his live show 

message: "Some observers have commented, however, that most of Brown's act consists of standard magic tricks and that little psychology or suggestion is actually used."
Who is "some observers"? A person and their freiends? I'm going to comment that Brown's acts are done by God itself. I'm an "observer". Does that mean that the statement "Some observers have commented, however, that Brown's acts are done by God itself" should be in the article as well?
*The scholar Simon Singh has stated this. Happy now? Magic Pickle 17:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weasel Words 

message: "It should be noted, however, that no actors or stooges are used in filming"
Anyone have a citation for this? Do we know this to be true, or only that he claims it? The procedure described in the article for picking subjects for his live show sounds random, if it's being described accurately, but that says nothing about his TV shows. Axlrosen 22:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No plants/stooges 

message: Removed the following - there are no references and it all seems a bit suspect to me, can anyone reference this, or is it (as I suspect) a lot of nonsense:
In the near future, TV viewers should be able to see Derren in the West Wycombe Caves (once home of the notorious Hellfire Club) hosting another spectacular. At the moment the production is being held back by several elements. Several considered dangerous elements in fact such as Radium and Uranium. The production team are seeking permission to use these elements, and if this goes ahead will only use these materials under government supervision. Programme details are obviously under wraps, but the working title is "Schrödinger's Cats".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.207.208.88 (talk) 14:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future productions? 

message: Am i just imagining it, or do the trick/treat cards spell trick/treat depending on which way up theyre held? It looks to me like if held one way then it reads trick, but if turned 180 degrees it displays treat. Also the camera doesnt show the backs of the cards when the 'victim' chooses, just after when Derren turns the card.... Ian42 19:58, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trick or Treat 

message: Mandeep Sehmi?  Please cite. 86.17.247.135 01:33, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: I think it should be added that Derren completely disagrees that NLP has any use at all, in fact he states in his latest book that he thinks the claims made for its uses are complete lies and that its a con. What does anyone else think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daveegan06 (talk • contribs) 10:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NLP 

message: Heading: Something Wicked This Way Comes, link to 4oD / http://library.digiguide.com/lib/episode/570354 . As far as I can tell it's a (non-free) programme guide, not a download link, so I reworded it, but who are they and although the site looks nice is it a good wiki link? I mean I just now snagged this show off usenet, but I'm sure I can't tell you about that. Hakluyt bean 22:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Download" link 

message: I proposed this merger. The ToT article is not very detailed and the content on Derren Brown is easily more informative. I think Trick or Treat (TV series) should just be redirected to this page. Thoughts? Coolmark18 07:03, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm against it, myself. The ToT article is horrible, of course, but it's a different topic, and it is - I think - deserving of an entry of its own. The fact that it's so crappy right now means it should be fixed/expanded/rewritten, not merged. -- Schneelocke 09:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  All Derren Brown's programmes are based on this page. It isn't really on a differnt topic because it is a Derren Brown programme and there is little difference between this and other programmes. Coolmark18 10:01, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then all the other ones deserve to be split off into their own articles as well. :) -- Schneelocke 13:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think if their had been enough content for seperate articles, it would have been spilt off already. Coolmark18 13:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Looking at the separate article we are losing nothing with the merge. However, no-one should be dissuaded from creating a proper article about the series: perhaps develop it in user space first? The JPStalk to me 18:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I've split the articles again as the section about it in Derren Brown was becoming quite large and more about the programme than his biography. The Trick or Treat (TV series) article discussed above was much smaller than the one now. The JPStalk to me 00:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging [[Trick or Treat (TV series)]] into [[Derren Brown]] 

message: ::@TheJPS, Are you sure the Wigmore Hall thing was a Treat? Getting an accomplished pianist to forget the fact before a concert was more a Trick I would say. Certainly the Trick or Treat-ness of the stunt was never revealed to the audience, as far as I am aware. Ralphbk 09:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it was articulated as a treat towards the end of the show when he was explaining that she would remember the excitement of that performance. The wording was something along the lines of "...and that is your treat." The JPStalk to me 09:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. On reviewing I see the actual card choice was shown - from DB's POV - at the end of the show. Ralphbk 14:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For a moment, though, when she fluffed the notes at the beginning of the performance, I thought that it was going to be a very cruel trick. (I thought he'd given her false confidence so she'd be booed off.) The JPStalk to me 14:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trick or Treat? 

message: In his shows Derren Brown also claims to possess skills like a photographic memory or being able to keep track of a four-deck blackjack game. Does anyone have any information about that? Are this tricks to? Maybe staged for tv? As he says there are people who can realy do that (autism is named here) - shouldn't it go into the article if he really can do such things?
--jonas, 6 May 2007
:Card counting is a skill to be sure (although simply counting 10s is fairly trivial and enough to give you a slight edge and you don't need to be Rain Man to do it) but to magicians of the calibre of Derren Brown it's as mundane as the skill of riding a bicycle. Remember, Derren Brown started, and still has a wide repetoire, for close up card magic; and given that the show on which he did so well at Blackjack was at a "Casino Night" event and not at a real casino, there's always the chance that he was being a bit slippery and actually doing some card manipulation. Jooler 09:00, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I for one very much doubt that Derren Brown counted four decks of cards the way he said he did. That wouldn't be in easy in any sense of the word. I think he just used a hi-low count, or actually manipulated the cards (most likely, as he started out with close-up card magic). I am also sceptical of the photographic memory. I think it's just a clever way to present a book test (which is the cups and balls of mentalism). So, no, I don't think he can acctually do any of that stuff. PutBoy 11:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other skills (photographic memory...) 

message: Hey, does anyone know the name of the song that is playing at the start of the bit where Derren reads the minds of 3 pretty girls at a club? It's right after the bit where he walked in the dark through the maze, around minute 31:15 of the DVD. It goes something like "doo da doo..... girl" "doo da doo... girl (higher pitch)
Cheers
:This page is for discussing the article. Wikipedia is not a forum. AndrewJDTALK -- 11:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A helpful response might have been to point he questioner at WP:Reference Desk rather than berating someone for being curious. Jooler 20:40, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looking for the name of a song used in Inside Your Mind 

message: It seems awfully peculiar that in the US Version of the show, which is supposed to take place in, I believe, Manhattan, almost all of the people that he works with appear to be British... Hmmm... No actors huh?SyBerWoLff 02:46, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The US version was advertised, if I recall correctly, as a mixture of new and old content (mostly from Trick of the Mind, which takes place mainly in Great Britain). While I haven't seen the American version, the old content is probably where you're seeing the British participants. Jhskulk 12:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  US Version 

message: How likely does it seem that the Bucha effect could have been used in the Waking Dead like I hinted in my edit?
Heck, I'll quote his blog post, just in case:
 August 7, 2007
 Bucha effect goes overground
 Filed under: Announce — Mickster @ 6:45 am
 Well, it was only a matter of time.
 http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=3450394&page=1
 The ‘psychophysical effects’ referred to in this article are related to those which I’ve been exploring for a number of years in my artworks.
 These devices have been on the backburner for years (see this wikipedia article for starters), and are already rumoured to be used in riot control.
 Looking forward to a brighter future.
 Comments are closed.
--Lakefall 15:15, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The [[Bucha effect]] and the Waking Dead 

message: I removed 27 February as his date of birth, as I could not find any reference for that date. If anyone can find a reliable source (and not just a Wikipedia mirror) please add it. Thanks. Majorly (talk) 16:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind, found one on his official site bio. Majorly (talk) 17:26, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Whoa, take a chill pill! Please assume good faith especially as Majorly not only admitted to the mistake, but also fixed it. --h2g2bob (talk) 22:30, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of birth 

message: This article was unprotected, on request, but it is clear that disputes are about to begin once more, following the readdition of the problematic content. I have reprotected this page, with no set expiry time. -- Anonymous DissidentTalk 04:00, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was no readdition of problematic content. Ilkali 04:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I went to the talk page wondering what the dispute was about - maybe the seances, maybe the Russian roulette, and found that it's a candidate for WP:LAME with only one warrior. Secretlondon 21:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but it is still a dispute, so do you agree that protection is still the best course of action? -- Anonymous DissidentTalk 22:27, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless the edit warrior stops readding it, I don't know what to suggest. Majorly (talk) 22:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since only one user is causing problems here, shouldn't we be looking at using Template:User_article_ban? - Ralphbk 09:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ralphbk, I couldn't agree with you more. That should have been done months ago before the article had to be locked down repeatedly. I don't think that some of the original visiting admins realized that it was just one person causing the problem. Since there is now a long list of people voting for the same edit on the talk page and still only one opposed, it is a lot more obvious to even causal editors what happened, and hopefully this problem can be quickly resolved by using your suggestion if it crops up again.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.82.9.60 (talk) 19:08, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reprotection 

message: The statement: "In apparent contradiction to his claim that no system existed, Derren correctly selected the winning horse in the last race, meaning Khadishia kept her stake and received winnings totalling £13,000."... suggests that there was a random element to the ending.  Given the system that he was teaching, it seems pretty clear that the producers placed a £4,000 bet on all five horses and counted on Derren Brown's slight-of-hand to make sure that when it came time to show the ticket, it would be the winner.
I think the comment should be deleted.  Peace.  Kidigus (talk) 22:36, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I have edited to reflect this, but I didn't refer to any of the various possible methods by which he could have achieved the effect - it would be speculation on my part. TrulyBlue (talk) 10:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. That would make sense - however - no reference, no edit on the page. Of course, there will probably not be a reference, I would hope the producers aren't that stupid. Also, I'll rewatch it, but he seemed geniunly worried during the race. This actually makes no sense, unless he could fake that. I'll also check to see if there's a chance that he did swap the ticket. However, I suspect editing will make that improbable  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragon909 (talk • contribs) 14:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no real reference for any of The System's section since it's not described in any secondary sources - even the Telegraph reference is a preview that fails to reveal the basic workings of the show.  My edit made reference to the ticket apparently changing, it's now been edited to say "Brown had correctly selected the winning horse", which is too strong a claim, IMO.  I saw the show only once, and can't remember whether Khadishia checked the ticket before the race, or whether it was shown to camera.  In any case, I'm sure that the time between the end of the race and "looking again" at the ticket would be enough to make a substitution.  However, one can't rule out  the use of suggestion, disappearing ink, telekinesis (OK, maybe that) or some other trick, so references to him having predicted the outcome are not justified. TrulyBlue (talk) 12:55, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Technically, the reference for the section is the programme itself, in which Brown does explain "the basic workings of the show"! However, I agree it is very difficult to talk of the ending with absolute neutrality. Nevertheless, I wonder if some "speculation" about Khadishia's win is justified? I mean: in the first half of the programme, Brown appears to predict winning horses; then he reveals that his "system" relies (in its operation) on betting on every horse in every race; then we understand (in Khadishia's psychology) that it is a belief system. Now, Brown reveals how he seemed to select winners; consequently, is it really speculation to refer to the same "system" when he manages produces a winner once more? If this is a step too far, then we're in the tricky position where we must accept the show's final twist is a insoluble mystery, rather than a soluble puzzle. Frustrating! 82.33.200.97 (talk) 18:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the current edit is spot on.  Nice and neutral.  Peace.  Kidigus (talk) 21:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The System 

message: At the moment, as a result of a half-hearted edit by an IP poster the article uses a mixture of British and International spelling (e.g. skeptic, practicing for U.S.; colour, programme for the U.K.) with a few straightforward errors ("conjuror") thrown in. This is deprecated in WP:ENGVAR and I propose to revert, once again, to the original state of the article, before the drive-by edits, with UK spelling throughout. This note is to solicit any other view before I do so, and to head off any further unexplained reverts. --Old Moonraker (talk) 09:07, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed by User:Katharineamy. Thanks. --Old Moonraker (talk) 10:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Presumably Old Moonraker just made a blunder there.  It is, of course, American spelling versus what may be called standard, international, Commonwealth, English or (erroneously, I'd say) British spelling.  If you see any more of it, just correct it.  — Chameleon 14:05, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling mistakes 

message: Why is it a big deal that he was a homosexual or not and not a big deal the he has a weird shaped head? My point is Wikipedia is making this article look more like a gossip article than an authentic article.
--O0oSorousho0O (talk) 16:56, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh SHUT UP! This "who cares if he's gay?" deal pisses me off to no end! It IS a big deal! Most people DO care and ARE very curious if someone is gay, ESPECIALLY if it's a celebrity! Stop already with this hypocrite sanctimonious "who cares if he's gay!" --KpoT (talk) 05:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal life 

message: Someone has edited the page posting an explanation of the "buttons in a dish" trick that Derren Brown performs. However there is no attempt at citation and it seems as though it is speculation and not known fact about the methods and innerworkings of the trick in question. I think it should be deleted or someone should add a footnote to identify where the information came from especially since Derren Brown has performed similar effects in his TV Series in which the method described would not work at all.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.64.214 (talk) 10:42, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buttons in a dish