Talk:Migrant deaths along the Mexico–United States border

message: This article regularly cites clearly biased sources as fact, and it strongly implies that any killing of immigrants along the border by US Agents are unjustified. This article either needs to be completely cleaned up or deleted entirely as I'm not sure what the value of it is in its current state.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:A405:7600:A419:C283:87FB:75C5 (talk) 17:06, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Please suggest additions which will make it, in your opinion, more balanced. Please also highlight areas of the article which imply killings of immigrants along the border are unjustified as I do not see this. For now I will remove the notice on neutrality unless better substantiation can be given for its addition. --Waddie96 (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I updated the article's body text to be more balanced. --Waddie96 (talk) 19:26, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality problems 

message: I am going to flag the section Vigilante killings as POV. Much of the material is taken from the leftist UK newspaper The Independent, whose correspondent, writing from Mexico City produces strongly POV "news reports" that trumpet some unlikely events. Direct quotes:
* ...the shootings of migrants by vigilante "posses" - believed to include members of the Ku Klux Klan - in the Wild West country along its border...
* Some ranchers have declared publicly that they are "hunting" the Mexicans "for sport".
* Irate local ranchers, led by the Barnett Boys of Sierra Vista, insist on searching suspicious vans and pickups on the public highway, despite having no authority to do so.
* Overzealous gringos with itchy trigger fingers are a new hazard in the sagebrush.
* Flyers circulating in Cochise County, blatantly advertise for tourists to join in the hunt.
* ...where vigilante "justice" claims more lives each week.
This is yellow journalism written for the self-satisfaction of the sneering anti-American left in the UK and has little connection to reality.
If there is no better sourcing for this section, I will delete it altogether in a few months.
Kevinp2 20:40, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have updated the section and deleted the POV tag accordingly.Terjen 08:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Much better, thanks! Kevinp2 17:55, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag Vigilante killings as POV 

message: Awful, paranoid, leftist drivel that presents maybe one or two facts.
Tars the ranchers of Arizona while giving no impression of the assault under which people all along the border are being subjected to.
POV. Should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.19.59.105 (talk • contribs) 13:27, 18 November 2005
:So why not add something on the conflict with ranchers to balance it? --BrownHairedGirl 12:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article doesn't deserve to be on Wikipedia 

message: This section is terrible. It obviously insinuates that the killings along the border are committed by Americans. If there are any killings being committed by Americans, some evidence and documentation should be provided. Hell, nothing here is documented. The only killings I can find evidence for are all on the Mexican side of the border, and are undoubtedly committed by Mexican criminal interests.
I should point out this article doesn't even mention the American citizens whose deaths were [b]caused[/b] by illegal immigrants and smugglers along the border. I can't find the news articles, a few Americans were killed in collisions such as discribed |here and |here. I believe that would be a valid inclusion, but may require this article change it's name to "Deaths along the U.S.-Mexican Border."
I'll also take issue with the snide Minuteman jab at the end, labelling some farmers as self-proclaimed vigilantes. There are many groups along the border that patrol and are armed, however they have never committed any violence, and their weaponry is to protect them from drug smugglers, coyotes, and the |Mexican Military. If there is any evidence to the contrary, provide it, or else this whole section should be rewritten or deleted.
Could you please include some statistics on how
much people were killed by the "Minutemen"?
It was a very good article.
Thanks for defending Mexico.
Congratulations!!!
Viva Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one has been killed by the Minutemen. Thanks for protecting America. USA 1!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.47.125.243 (talk) 20:48, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent Killings 

message: This article is biased, manipulative and completely useless as an encyclopedia article. Its creators obviously wrote as a primitive political statement. Based on facts or not, you can't write an objective article with such agenda. It doesn't deserve a second chance. Unworthy.
:So then why don't you sign your comments and recommend the article for deletion? --MPD01605 03:35, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Before people get up in arms, deleting stuff, shouting POV, or "leftist dribble", this is a very USEFUL article, and factually correct. It has no 'agenda' (other than to inform one of what is verifiable) and unless you can prove otherwise, it needs to stay. Dark jedi requiem 16:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This article should be deleted, really

message: I wikified a lot, removed irrelevent things (examples: farmers told not to shot immigrants (as farmers were never said to have shot immigrants) and a massacre that happened 150 years ago in utah that bares no relation to the mexico/american border deaths.) I also added references.Dark jedi requiem 18:48, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article cleanup 

message: After I cleaned up the article, is there anything that seems slanted, biased or anyway unobjective? If not, I see no reason for the clean up and pov signs to remain. Dark jedi requiem 00:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Clean up and neutrality''' 

message: Does any one have a more recent number for the total death for 2007? Rdrgz25 (talk) 04:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent numbers 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Support. Seems logical.  ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:54, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: :Any additional comments:
: The 2006 Government Accounting Office report on Border-Crossing Deaths uses the term migrant more than 100 times, as in migrant border-crossing deaths, migrants attempt to cross the border, and number of migrants attempting to cross the border. Terjen (talk) 11:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: No matter your favorite alternative name, do we have consensus that it would be an improvement to move Immigrant deaths along the U.S.-Mexico border → Migrant deaths along the United States–Mexico border? As most of our cited sources refer to migrants rather than immigrants, it will allow us to keep the content rather than have it purged. Terjen (talk) 00:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not Migrant deaths along the Mexico - United States border> More NPOV as the migrants are crossing from Mexico to the US. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's focus on whether the specific proposal is an improvement, and consider other alternatives afterwards. Terjen (talk) 00:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am quite happy with Migrants rather than immigrants and indeed support that, but I would rather just see the name changed once. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:26, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

text: That change, which alphabetizes the two countries, has been proposed before and I think it's overdue. Since it's a minor change I don't think it requires discussion and could be made anytime.  ·:· Will Beback ·:· 17:33, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I would support either version, with a preference for the alphebetized version. I agree that the switch to the alphebetized version could be done either now or at a later time, since it is unlikely to be controversial.--Ramsey2006 (talk) 17:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Done.  ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:38, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Consensus about moving

message: :Why not Migrant deaths along the Mexico - United States border> More NPOV as the migrants are crossing from Mexico to the US. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's focus on whether the specific proposal is an improvement, and consider other alternatives afterwards. Terjen (talk) 00:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am quite happy with Migrants rather than immigrants and indeed support that, but I would rather just see the name changed once. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:26, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That change, which alphabetizes the two countries, has been proposed before and I think it's overdue. Since it's a minor change I don't think it requires discussion and could be made anytime.  ·:· Will Beback ·:· 17:33, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I would support either version, with a preference for the alphebetized version. I agree that the switch to the alphebetized version could be done either now or at a later time, since it is unlikely to be controversial.--Ramsey2006 (talk) 17:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Done.  ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:38, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: I propose that the article be moved to "Illegal migrant deaths along the Mexico - United States border" in order to be more specific in regards to the legal status of such people.
If there is no response(s) by 20 April, I will proceed.Zukabovich (talk) 06:09, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: My objection would be grammatical, I think something like "Deaths of illegal immigrants along the Mexico - United States border" would sound better. - Schrandit (talk) 13:43, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Has the proponent reviewd the discussion above? The article was specifically moved from "immigrant" because most sources refer to the people as "migrants". The same goes for "illegal" - we should go with what most of the sources use.   Will Beback  talk   18:34, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's pretty much implied that those who died are ILLEGAL migrants. Legal migrants don't cross borders illegally when they already have the proper documentation. I like Schrandit's proposal if it's more appropriate. Zukabovich (talk) 19:16, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Lot's of things in this world are implied. But we should stick with what's explicit. See WP:V.   Will Beback  talk   19:24, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that we should stick to what's explicit and one thing that's explicit is that these are deaths along the border. We don't know if they are migrants, immigrants, drug runners or something else.
This article should be re titled "Deaths along the Mexican - United States border" so as to make clear that it includes more than just migrants. -69.143.48.114 (talk) 00:59, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with the sentiment of the anon IP ending in .114. Some deaths here appear to be neither migrants nor immigrants, as no intent to relocate or cross the border is ever stated.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 17:59, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal

message: I propose that this article be merged into the article Mexico–United States barrier. A full 3 paragraphs of the "Mexico–United States barrier" article discusses migrant deaths, and includes information not found in this article. Thanks, Richard Apple (talk) 22:19, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal 

message: The second sentence of the article reads:
:"The number of deaths has steadily increased since the mid-1990s with exposure (including heat stroke, dehydration, and hyperthermia) being the leading cause."
This is very impressive, until you view the cited source, see that it covers only the years 1985-1998, and you realize that this statistic is 15 years out-of-date. Certainly, there must be some contemporary statistic, real or imagined, that is more up-to-date than this one! Plazak (talk) 02:57, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Laughably out-of-date lead paragraph 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The section on hypothermia is very short and lacks specifics.  It also does not give indication of the  deaths of people in trucks or other vehicles, such as in the recent deaths of over fifty! people in a refrigerator truck with non-working refrigeration (https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/29/us/san-antonio-migrant-truck-deaths/index.html).  How-ever, many of these kinds of deaths take place (or are reported from) locations a distance from the border (in the recent case, it was some  150 north of it).   So maybe a separate article, linked to from this one, is needed. Kdammers (talk) 18:14, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  hypothermia &/or suffocation 

message: — Assignment last updated by Kdavis25 (talk) 22:50, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: LIBR 1 Working with Sources

message: — Assignment last updated by Katherine.Holt (talk) 15:04, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Adding Immigrants Quantitative Sources for Latino Immigration History