Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision

message: In example - I've noticed that with Spain and Norway announcing Benidorm Fest and Melodi Grand Prix, instead of interpreting it as the country will participate in the upcoming edition, we just write it down into the other countries column.
In my opinion, if a brodcaster announces an national selection will be held, and that - that national selection historically always has been used to find the representative of Eurovision, we can consider it a confirmation that the country will participate. I understand that with i.e. Sanremo, the history isn't that it's always used to find the eurovision participant, so an announcement of Sanremo 2025 wouldn't mean Italy will certainly compete in Eurovision 2025. But when songwriting camps for Melodi Grand Prix 2025 is announced, and we have written on it's page that "It determines the country's representative for the Eurovision Song Contest, and has been staged almost every year since 1960.", the announcement of Melodi Grand Prix 2025 means Norway's participation at Eurovision 2025 is assured. Thomediter (talk) 11:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: If the source does not state that it is considered a confirmation, then it should not be included, but they should be mentioned below the participation table, as those song contests and Eurovision have a close connection. The examples you stated would constitute original research — IмSтevan talk 11:31, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: 2024 United States presidential election - look at this - here we also include something 99% certain, but not 100%. If an event specifically made for selecting the Eurovision participant is announced, it definitely means that the country will take part in the contest. Thomediter (talk) 11:34, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: There is extensive coverage that the election will happen, nothing in there is original research — IмSтevan talk 00:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eurovision 2025 - When a country announces an event that historically has been used to specifically to choose its  representative for Eurovision, it's a safe bet that they're going to be there. 

message: So, following the show (sf1), what do we think? I still believe that automatic qualifiers should be slotted into the tables for semi-finals — IмSтevan talk 13:10, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, they should be included. Ktkvtsh (talk) 17:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  AQs in semis 

message: A few minutes ago, it was announced that the Netherlands was disqualified from the final. While it did compete in the semi-finals, it was disqualified from the final. How should this be represented on the map of countries, whether in red like the NQ countries, or a different colour, as it did qualify? Xeroctic (talk) 10:26, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I say purple color because it's not used any longer for non-selected countries. As a country qualified for the final (blue) and doesn't participate in it (red) at the same time. 𝐒𝐦𝐭𝐡𝐧𝐠𝐧𝐰 💬 10:45, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Purple blends in too well with the rest. Green would be an option, as that is the color of semi-finalists — IмSтevan talk 11:08, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Green is to positive for a disqualification. That would just be misleading. Tvx1 11:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah green is too positive, maybe a darker-grey/black or dark orange? -- AxG / ✉  12:55, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe light blue like the relegated countries in older contests? Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 04:24, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Netherlands 2024 disqualification 

message: Should the Netherlands be included in individual countries' jury rankings? You can clearly see where the Netherlands would've been in each country's jury and individual jurors' rankings based off simply which numbers are missing — IмSтevan talk 11:03, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jury results 

message: An editor has requested that :Nemo (rapper) be moved to :Nemo (singer), which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You  are invited to participate in the move discussion. GnocchiFan (talk) 20:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: The "Location" section of the contest articles is usually formatted somewhat awkwardly on desktop, with the text sandwiched between the infobox, the image of the host venue, and the location map. The "Bidding phase" subsection also has to awkwardly incorporate a table and another map, sometimes around the infobox. You can see the issue in the 2024, 2023, and 2022 articles. 
Is there any way we can move things around to improve the layout? Some suggestions to start with:
* Move the venue image elsewhere, possibly to "Production"
* Removing the cities which expressed interest but did not bid from the bidding table.
* Remove the bidding table entirely, since it's mostly a repetition of the prose.
* Inserting the wikitext (I forget what it is) which forces a break between the end of the infobox and the start of the first section. This would create a significant amount of white space.
* Reducing the length of the infobox. Probably not possible?
* Putting the map and images in gallery format at the bottom of the section, if possible.
A.D.Hope (talk) 15:18, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Location" sections 

message: Hi everyone.
I don't know if it has already been raised, but I want to reconsider the use of images not related to the event to which an article refers (ESC, national final, etc.) in this project. I am referring to the use of images of people, or buildings, not taken at the event to which the article refers. I don't know what value the photo of the façade of the venue adds to the article if it's not dressed up for that specific event, or the photo of a singer or presenter if it is not from its participation in the event. I know that it is fancy to have images in the articles, and that for old events is difficult to find photos of them, but instead of adding photos from another time, I think it is better not to have them, even more so if they are interfering with the tables and the infobox and breaking the format of the article in some cases. What do you think? Ferclopedio (talk) 11:40, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. It's always better to have pictures from that specific time, but if none are available, then another picture should be used — IмSтevan talk 12:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

text: I disagree. While it's ideal to have pictures from the specific event, using related images when none are available can still add value to the article. Ktkvtsh (talk) 16:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

text: I concur with ImStevan and Ktkvtsh on this. I believe that as a project we are very cognisant of what images are included on the articles, at least I know I am. Are there any examples where you believe the addition of images detracts from the article that you would like to share? If there's something that you think is in contravention of MOS:IMAGES then I think that is worthy of discussion, but I definitely do not support a blanket ban on . If we were to take your suggestion and apply it as a rule consistently then there would be a lot of articles which we would never be able to add images for because of copyright law, and the lack of suitable free imagery which has been made available on Commons. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 19:52, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: There are already many contest articles that do not have any image. And also many who have photos of their own edition. The use of photos out of time is not everywhere, but there are some contests that have them. There are cases that those images have a good size for the place where they are located, don't interfere with any table, and have sense to be there, like , I'm fine with that. But there are cases like , , , , , , , , and  that have vertical photos of a big size, not from that edition, that interfere with a table (or making it narrower -what expand it vertically- or leaving a big white space before the table in some screen sizes), and that makes me wonder why that exact photo is there. Also  with photos of good size and of the event that interfere with the table and  with a vertical photo of other event too big for the section. Cases like those are the ones that raised that question in me and that's why I asked here about that. Ferclopedio (talk) 23:08, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes of course not every article requires an image, but I think for Eurovision, where there are a lot of people involved, images are a very useful tool that adds value to these articles, and I believe that for the vast majority of our articles MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE is being maintained. Being illustrated by relevant media where possible is also one of the Good article criteria. For the vast majority of instances which you listed, and granted a lot of them are articles which I improved to GA status, what images have been placed where has been given some thought, e.g. a notable past participant, a former winner returning etc. It's not just random images being added to articles because we can, there is thought being put behind it. Additionally, as you can see at WP:WHITE, sometimes white space is unavoidable anyway, depending on your browser, font size, screen size etc. We have a lot of tables within these articles, and particularly the Participants table is near the top of each article, so even the placement of tables in relation to the infobox is going to create white space. Sure sizing of the images could potentially be looked at again, but I think for the majority of cases the sizing of each image is also generally ok. It's not been something that's come up in my past GA review for example. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of images