Talk:GoGo Sentai Boukenger

message: Just for the record, and to prevent another mistake. BoukenRed's first name is Satoru. Akashi is his family name. Check the opening credits if you don't agree. In Japanese, the family name goes first (in this case, Akashi Satoru, Inou Masumi, etc.). A possibility is that the one who changed it thought Akashi was Red's first name since some characters call him so, but they are calling him by his family name, like workmates. Chairoguma 16:07, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Satoru 

message: Shouldn't the names of the mecha be changed to more car sounding names since the show inolves cars like the anniversary shows do?  It seems to make more sense to call Dai Bouken, "Great Adventure", like a vehicle.  While I'm at it, the GouGou Vehicles should be called Roaring Machines or something...
Am I wrong?  Does the Toei promotional materials state these names in romaji? (Jaybob1222 21:00, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently in the movie, there is a GouGou Tank and GouGou Fighter, acording to thai-toku.com.Nauto 17:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's a link: GouGouTank & GouGou Fighter from the movie, maybe(?).Nauto 16:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

text: New update on Thai-Toku as well, they shown a "BoukenGold" for the first time and it's own robo.Nauto 17:54, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: BoukenGold may not be a Boukenger. It may be a member of the Ashu. Look below. Ryulong 20:11, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see....thanks for clearing it up, the site that I went to is in a different launguage except the word BoukenGold, but after reading that, it make more sense. I'll just wait and see what will happen next. Thanks Nauto 20:21, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the Mecha 

message: I was wondering - shouldn't the English translation be Rumbling Squadron Adventure Ranger? Other previous shows have been translated in this manner (see Bakuryuu Sentai Abaranger for example). The Bougenger in the Japanese title is a compound word made up of bōken (adventure [冒険]) and ranger (レンジャー). The article states that "The primary theme of the series is treasure hunting and adventures" but fails to mention the allusion contained in the title.
--Fusebokme 04:55, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Adventure Ranger is an incorrect translation, The Japanese and English are two intertwined to translate. The same goes with Abaranger--that name should _not_ be translated (also, "outburst" is the absolute last word I'd translate "abareru" as--I think the term "Outburst Ranger" came from an HK or something--I've seen it used by a few people who insist on writing everything in English, but no one who knows any Japanese actually uses it). jgp 12:51, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it is a pun on "bouken" and "ranger", so that can be mentioned at least, but "Adventure Ranger" is a very literal and mostly incorrect "translation", largely because puns can't be translated as such.--Sean Black 20:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would translate "boukenger" as "advengers."  Change it if you want, it's obviously a pun on adventure, avenger, and ranger. ha ha! (Jaybob1222 16:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I would say "Advenger" because it is the english equilvalent of the "word," "Boukenger," because both words are puns.  When hearing the world "Advenger," it sounds kind of like one is hearing both "Adventure," and "Avenger," vaguely sounding like ranger.  BTW I deleted that "bull fucking shit" thing cause it is more immature than this thing I'm rambling aboot.Jaybob1222 13:05, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  English translation 

message: While it seems to be universal consensus about being GouGou, the computer screens in the show always display the word as "GoGo", as in the GoGo Vehicles. I want to know, which official site or something demonstrated the "GouGou" romanization? Cute Dirty Evil Pushie 21:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, I'm not exactly sure. I know that TV-Nihon's fansubs spell it "GoGo", but everything else indicates that that isn't correct. () I can't, however, find anything from Toei or TV-Asahi that spells the name in English (which makes sense, really). If anyone can, I'd be grateful.--Sean Black 22:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Contributing from Japan (I'm sorry for poor English). Certainly, although the character of the title is "GouGou (轟轟)", it is used as the meaning of "go" in the series. For example, when boukengers fight their enemies, Akashi often says "Go! Go!". In short, "轟轟" is a phonetic equivalent. I consider that it is better to unify with the notation of "GoGo".--220.111.94.79 16:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much for sharing your expertise! I suppose this article should be moved, then? And incidentally, your English is just fine. :-) --Sean Black 00:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is true, but I've always treated the "Gougou" part as a pun, much like Kyuukyuu Sentai Go Go Five. Kyuukyuu, while written with the kanji for "rescue", is also a pun on 99, as "kyuu" with a different kanji means 9 and the series aired in 1999 (of course, "kyuukyuu", even with different kanji, could never be "ninety-nine"--even using numerical kanji, it would be "nine nine"). Even with that pun, it's never written as "99 Sentai Go Go Five" (and that's not even mentioning the "Go Go Five" -> 555 pun, which is treated the same way). I think Boukenger should be given the same treatment. Mentioning that it's a pun is fine, but I don't think that's how the series name should be written. jgp 01:24, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, if you decide not to change the article's title to "GoGo Sentai Boukenger", would you consider changing the capitalisation back to "Gougou Sentai Boukenger"? According to at least one dictionary, "gougou" is a discrete word. Just because it's formed from two identical kanji doesn't mean that it should be written as if it were two words. jgp 01:24, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems reasonable to me.--Sean Black 00:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, WP:MOS-JA would call for the title to be Gōgō Sentai Boukenger, as Hepburn romanization calls for the use of macrons. A similar change was done to Mahou Sentai Magiranger to Mahō Sentai Majirenjā (which I managed to get them to change to Mahō Sentai Magiranger because it is called Magiranger in Japan). I would assume that Gougou would be Gōgō, and not Gogo. Ryulong 01:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

text: "Abarenzya" is a screw up in transliteration. It should be "Abarenjā" or "Abaranger". Ryulong 20:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It's because of the ジ, which is "zhi," but sounds like "ji," not to be confused with ヂ, "ji"...Jaybob1222 13:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GoGo or GouGou? 

message: At a recent edit by an anonymous user, he/she mentioned a BoukenGold and it being a female Boukenger. While I highly doubt that BoukenGold will be a girl, there does seem to be evidence for a BoukenGold's existence, as stated at a Japan Hero post by dukemon22 that goes as follows: 
:"Arbalest Class Battleship DX DaiSentaiRelease in October, 12,800 yenStrongest Battleship robo that BoukenGold and the 6 Boukenger pilot. It transforms from an aircraft carrier, GouGouFortress, into the standing, DaiSentai. GouGouTrailer, GouGouFire, GouGouAider, and GouGouPolice can be stored in it in trailer mode. Trailer and Fire are situated side by side, and the Police and Aider are placed on the side of fire. It is able to connect with each of the GouGou Gattai Series(optional). When DaiBouken, SirenBuilder and the other machines of the GouGou Gattai Series combine with DaiSentai at once, they achieve "Perfet Formation". The design is a bit like the battleship from Macross. The arms end at missle pods, in the make of a battleship. The jet adheres to the back of the hull, and the other 4 machines attach to the sides. PerfectDaiBouken has DaiBouken in the center of DaiSentai, with the bridge as the helmet. The Jet mounts on the back. The arms are all 4 extra machines combined. Shovel with Crane, Drill With Mixer. SirenBuilder's part in it is unsure, but he's there.Notes:Awsome rumor, if it's true. Arbalest is apparently a reference to something, possibly another toku-battleship. If anyone can confirm that, it'd be cool. PerfectDaiBouken sounds massive, and yet, definately plausible, much in the make of KingPyramida. More info as it becomes available. Also BoukenGold sounds mysterious, and I'm wondering who it could be."
Apparently at the Japan Hero forums, BoukenGold is also thought to be a rumor, and it may be a power up for BoukenRed (as seen by a grainy little picture depicting BoukenRed holding a gold sword, and a gold-armored Boukenger-like warrior to his right (could be like the Demon Hunter from GoGo-V or another Battlizer adaptation like with Magiranger vs Dekaranger). Regardless, I think that additions that speculate that BoukenGold will exist and be a female should be treated as non-notable speculation. Ryulong 08:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See also .--SB | T 09:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I knew it wasn't BoukenGold or female. Thank you SB. Ryulong 09:22, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, not yet, at least. Ryulong 09:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  BoukenGold? 

message: Do we know for sure that her real name is Yuria? That could have easily been something made up by Nendogami/Dark Shadow to further manipulate her. Perhaps it should be best to leave that bit of information out? --VerusMaya II 23:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Natsuki's real name? 

message: What is it, exactly? What kind of vehicle is it based on?  It's not really a plane, a helicopter, or even a gyrocopter. Ryūlóng 20:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's not exactly helping...  Is it the only GoGo Vehicle that is not based off of a real vehicle? Ryūlóng 21:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hang on, I just found something on CollectionDX: "Gougou Gyro is a very simple design that incorporates a small excavation vehicle known as the Met Lander, which can operate independently, and has two small rocket engines to land it and two tractor treads to propel it along the ground."
Again, I'm not sure what the Met Lander is, but that's all I could really find. Sincerely, Thrashmeister {U|T|C} 23:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, the Met Lander design is just for the, for lack of a better word, helmet of DaiBouken. Still not sure about the main design. Sincerely, Thrashmeister {U|T|C} 23:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GoGo Gyro 

message: According to a friends at TOEI Company and a producer of the series, what happens to the rangers is supposedly already in the opening credits.
*Please sign your comments. Also, this comment makes no real sense, and seems more along the lines of a "My boyfriends cousins brothers roommates maid knows someone who cleans the house gutters of someone who may or may not work for Toei says this is true!" situation. Nezu Chiza 08:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  According to friends/toei associate 

message: In regards to a previous edit, I do want to mention that Sentai DOES tend to have vehicles such as motorcycles, jeeps, police cars, and the like for the heroes to use as transportation as opposed to zord travel only.  I clearly recall the first 10 or so seasons doing that, as well as recent ones like Deka and Magi.  However, I'm fairly certain Boukenger isn't the first sentai to not have them. Arrow 22:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transportation 

message: I'm wondering... would Tokusou Sentai Dekaranger count under the following: 
"This is the first Sentai series since Chikyuu Sentai Fiveman and arguably Kyouryuu Sentai ZyuRanger where the team was assembled and had their equipment and costumes prior to the start of the first episode."
Ban wasn't in the main team yet at the beginning of the first episode, but he still had all his equipment and whatnot... so did the rest of the team. Thrashmeister {U|T|C} 03:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Make a mention of it, and then say why it doesn't exactly count. Ryūlóng 03:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dekaranger 

message: How many episodes will there be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.127.236.199 (talk • contribs) 
:I think 51 was mentioned at some point. Ryūlóng 20:48, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Total episodes 

message: I was browsing TV Asahi's site for Boukenger last night, and I came upon this news page. It has two DVDs listed there, and they have the title of the series romanicized to be "GoGo Sentai Boukenger". Should we perhaps move this article there, or stick with this form of romanicization? Ryūlóng 21:50, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But they are using "GoGo" on their products in Japan. While I do realize that those kana read "gougou," shouldn't the way that the official websites translate it use be used on WP ("Souta" is also spelled as "Sota" on the site, but the DVD case said "GoGo Sentai Boukenger" on it)? Ryūlóng 23:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, the title will just be bereft of u's or ō's. The text will still use something along the lines of . Ryūlóng 23:20, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. Filadelfo 23:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if it was understood that I am suggesting that we move this article (and other articles that use the series title in the name, like the Precious list) to GoGo Sentai Boukenger. Ryūlóng 23:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, right. Sorry. I think that as long as that is the only discrepancy of the romanization, there would be no problem, and unifiying the english page name with the "official" romanization would be more practical. Filadelfo 23:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

text: And to compare, the Magi DVDs use "Mahou Sentai". Ryūlóng 00:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: See? that's what I was talking about. They are definitely mixing up the pun with the romanization.Filadelfo 18:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes--it's clearly a pun on both ごうごう and the English "Go Go", and cross-language puns are a pain in the arse to romanise (Kakuranger, Abaranger, and yes, Boukenger all make me cringe when I think of how to translate them). Also, remember that 轟轟/ごうごう is a real Japanese word that appears in a dictionary (on a semi-related note, I find interesting that "Daibouken" appears in the dictionary as a single unit). jgp TC 19:45, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well "Abare" doesn't have its dictionary definition. It's supposed to stand for "Attack Bandit Resistance" which is what the suits are called for some reason. But TV Asahi is clearly using a pun for Boukenger's romanicized title. Ryūlóng (竜龍) 20:33, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: "Abare" as written like that doesn't appear in the dictionary because the word's primary form is a verb: "abareru" (暴れる), which means "to rage or rampage", they cut it so to form a portmenteau with the common letter "re". So I think they tried (very unsuccessfuly, in my opinion) to adequate the name of the suits to the name of the team. In addition every chapter had the word "abare". Filadelfo 16:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible romanicized title? 

message: Isn't there anyone who has seen the movie and can add info of it? Filadelfo 23:59, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The movie got released? Ryūlóng 00:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: If so, put in whatever information you can provide. Us regular editors can wikify it and whatnot. Ryūlóng 00:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Movie Info!

message: Boukenger villian countdown is based on the number of people in the clans. Gajya has 5 people 
The Jaryuu have 4 Ninja Clan has 3Ashus have 2 hmm maybe 1 left?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.185.125.101 (talk) 
:Wikipedia:No original research—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Villian Countdown 

message: Kazuyoshi Sakai aka Gao Black is appearing in the second Boukenger movie, Boukenger versus Super Sentai and also according to his page he will be appearing in episode 40 as well, December 3rd/10—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.185.125.101 (talk) 
:Your sources.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 05:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: None of those are reputable sources.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:04, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: What little information about Gekiranger comes from the article on the Japanese Wikipedia. I am unsure as to where that information comes from, as it was created by an anonymous user.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Not very well.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't get that from that entry. I see that GaoBlack will black will be appearing (as that's the actor with Yasuka), but I don't see AbaRed, Emiri, or Mai there, either.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 21:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It doesn't say Abared will be there, nor does it name any specific characters for the VS, just that one character that was part of the Abaranger cast will be in the team up, but that's not really that specific. And I'm pretty sure he'll be appearing as a new character and not GaoBlack. Yaguruma 22:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It says he'll be GaoBlack at some point, and I mentioned that under the vs heading.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: In episode 40? I know he'll be GaoBlack in the team up, but I don't see anything about him being GaoBlack in 40. Yaguruma 22:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't say he'd be GaoBlack in Task 40. I put it in the article to say he'll be GaoBlack in the vs.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GAOBLACK and Episode 40 

message: ....there will be a total of 40 Sentai Movies. But beginning with Gogo 5 there's two movies each. Boukenger and the versus movie and vs. Magi there will be 38 movies. Gekiranger will be movies 39 (the feature movie) and 40 (the verus movie). 70.185.125.101 22:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So?—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  With Juuken Sentai Gekiranger.... 

message: It's GOUGOU SENTAI BOUKENGER.
:Read down further. TOEI DVD cases use "GoGo Sentai Boukenger". This article was moved based on that evidence.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 03:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But is that written in kanji/kana or roman letters?—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, this is how TV-Nihon has chosen to romanicize it.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, regardless, there was discussion and we've decided to rename the article. The longer o issue is still dealt with using . Both 轟轟 and ゴーゴー are interpretted as "GoGo" for both their meanings of "Rumbling" and katakana for "Go! Go!" Now, please cease your changes to the article, replacing "GoGo" with "GouGou" or "Gou Gou".—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 05:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes you are changing it. And we discussed below at #Possible romanicized title? where it was essentially decided that we go with what the DVD boxes say. VerusMaya I believe contributed, as did Filadeflo, and I attempted to get GreenNinja to discuss, but he disappeared from the wiki at that time.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 07:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: That is your IP editting the page. And if you look at these images, you will see what I am talking about: Volume 1, Volume 2, Volume 3—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 08:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, and I'm fairly sure that these are the same DVDs that can be seen in the episodes whenever they hock them to children.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 08:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New GouGou/GoGo discussion 

message: While long and detailed, this article is mostly fluff, in list form. Where's the main section? Where are the prose paragraphs? LordAmeth 00:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of that is spread among several other pages, such as Search Guard Successor Foundation, Negative Syndicate, Precious (Boukenger), and 30 Sentai Encyclopedia. This article got too long and was split into those four.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 01:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment

message: Is this the first episode of 2007?199.80.117.24 16:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but that's not that improtant.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 23:27, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode 44 

message: I just noticed that several descriptions in the Precious page are more a summary of what happened with them in the particular episode than actual descriptions. The ones I've done are taken directly from the TV-Asahi site of boukenger. Is there any problem if I modify the rest? I ask because is certainly a huge modification to the page. Filadelfo 01:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Be bold :)—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a little problem, Fractyl thinks that a lot of the information I removed from the precious section was supposed to stay there, much of that information are the episode summaries I talked about so my question is: Exactly what kind of information should the Precious page have? Filadelfo 07:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The page should contain information on the Precious.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 07:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

text: If necessary, create a page for synopses of the episodes.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 07:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: List of GoGo SEntai Boukenger episodes, similar to how List of Kamen Rider Kabuto episodes is setup, will solve the problem. Short Synopsis, Long Synopsis, whatever it takes. There's nothing wrong with having a bit of story information in the page either, so take out what you have to, but keep relevant story information. Floria L 19:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Understood. Filadelfo 19:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Precious Descriptions

message: Some people have been putting in about the 5 red senshi that show up in Boukenger VS Super Sentai. It's true that Gao Red, Hurricane Red, Aba Red, Deka Red, and Magi Red do show up in the movie. After they show up, they use their power to upgrade DaiVoyager and make Burning Legend DaiVoyager.
AkaRed and past Red Senshi
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/410/akaredandredsenshiru8.png
X1Mask 18:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but we don't know if it's something like in Gao vs SS where all of a sudden everyone shows up, or if it's AkaRed's doings.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 18:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Where is there text to support either claim? I remember a scan, but I can't read it.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 18:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Here be scans, actually 1 and 2—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 18:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, those scanns are at thai-toku, so look around there >_>—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 19:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, I know that. I just know where they are uploaded now.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 02:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Someone on RB uploaded Boukenger vs. Super Sentai earlier this week, someone who watched it said that Aka Red has the ability to transform into past red rangers, though, that's 2nd hand gossip =P Myzou 11:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Finished watching it, in the movie, akared appeared to help eiji find the other warriors like mentioned. He also fought along side them, he transforms into Magired and GaoRed, but during his role call, he transforms into the 5 mentioned, but only for about a second for each. He also powers up the zords (not sure what they're called in sentai, even after Abaranger, Magiranger, and Boukenger O.O;;, with the power of fire with the help of BoukenSilver and the past rangers. Myzou 09:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Boukenger Vs Super Sentai (Red Senshi)

message: How many shows will this have?74.195.3.199 17:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's either 48 or 49. We know that a week after what could be the 49th episode is the premiere of Gekiranger.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 20:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode Count 

message: I was just wondering. Is it a good idea of mentioning that many of the episodes of this show are available on youtube or is would cause a lot of comotion? Nathen —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.161.210.108 (talk) 01:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Online broadcasts are not official. And we cannot link to Youtube.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 01:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

text: It's not really important. A lot of stuff can be found on YouTube, and Boukenger is just one of them.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 05:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Not for copyrighted television episodes, as stated at WP:EL—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:05, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  online brodcast programing 

message: It says the "original footage can be seen in France as Bioman 4." Does Bioman 4 even exist as a show?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crboyer (talk • contribs) 01:45, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bioman 4