Talk:Mangal Pandey

message: I removed the categorization "People of Kolkata" from Mangal Pandey, as there is no information supporting him to be either born or living in Kolkata, or being a Bengali.  re-inserted the category with the following comment: Ragib, please read the details thoroughly. Mangal Pandey started his act of insurrection at Barrackpore, near what is considered as part of Greater Calcutta. Also there he was hanged.. 
I'm just curious how this is justified ... the narrative as I can see on the article states Barrackpore is "near" Kolkata. After your comment, I did a little research on the location, and from this map, I can see it is contained in the North 24 Pargana district. I don't see it anywhere close to Kolkata city. What exactly is "Greater calcutta"? Anyway, I think the categorization of "People of Kolkata" is mistaken, because you can't consider people from any city tens or hundreds of miles away from Kolkata, in a separate district, to be part of "People of  Kolkata" city. Too much categorization is wrong, and mistaken categorization is even worse. So, LordGulliver, I'd like to hear your arguments in detail about inserting people from other districts into this category. Thanks. --Ragib 22:35, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mangal Pandey in Cat: People of Kolkata? 

message: Is it more correct to say "English East India Company" or "British East India Company"?  This article is using both terms interchangably, is that correct? - Eric 12:51, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  English East India Company 

message: The picture is not tagged. --Dangerous-Boy 06:23, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Image:Mangal pandey.jpg]] 

message: I just noticed that Jacobw removed the sentence "In fact it was this stubborn attitude on the side of the British administrators which worsened the matter, as the later incidences proved." from Mangal Pandey premuably considering it an unsubstantiated POV of a probably biased Indian. I would however contend that it is not a personal POV but just a logical and objective analysis. We can be reasonably sure that the Sepoy Mutiny would not have broken out, at least not to the extent it did, had the British administrators not remained adamant on the use of the greased cartirdges. That the criticism is not personally motivated can be seen from the fact that it is rather Malleson, a contemporary British military officer, who analyses the causes of the rebellion in this manner, see e.g. (Malleson 2005, p. 31): "How the Adjutant-General managed to mislead the Government, and how the Government permitted themselves to be misled on this occasion, seems extraordinary." In fact, Malleson, who published his book "The Indian Mutiny of 1857" in year 1890 and edited before that 6 volumes on the Mutiny narrates many incidences of stubbornness displayed by some British officers and how it contributed to the disaffection that was displayed by the public in general and sepoys in particular later during the Mutiny. I hope people would refrain from directly deleting portions that they consider "biased". Please post them on this discussion page first so as the writer and/or other editors can express their opinion. Thank you. 
PS: If no serious objections are raised, I would like to roll-back this deletion. --Raj 14:54, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unwarranted deletions without consultations 

message: Hi, Raj--
I think you've misunderstood the motivation behind my deletion. This is my fault for not discussing the deletion here first. Usually, I don't think it's necessary to discuss changes on the discussion page, since Wikipedia users who disagree with the changes can just change things back. However, given that I was making a change to a page about a national hero of a country other than my own, I should have realized that any changes would be sensitive matters. My apologies.
In any case, my concern isn't so much that it is an unsubstantiated opinion; it's that it is an opinion of any kind. Saying that somebody made a decision is a historical fact, and is therefore appropriate for Wikipedia. Saying that they are "stubborn" is an opinion. It happens to be an opinion I agree with! But opinions don't belong in Wikipedia, whether or not I agree with them.
Similarly, speculating about what might have happened if the A-G had acted differently doesn't really belong in Wikipedia. Articles should be about what did happen, not about what might have happened.
Of course, given the nature of Wikipedia, if you disagree with me, there's nothing stopping you from changing the article back. However, I'd encourage you to think about ways of including the information in a way that sticks to the facts. For example,  I would have no objection to something like, "In such-and-such a book, such-and-such an author cited this decision as an example of the A-Gs stubbornness, and speculated that, had the British indeed switched to ghee at this point, the conflict would have ended immediately."  In that case, you would not be stating an opinion; you would be stating the fact that a contemporary observer had advanced that opinion. 
Does that distinction make sense? It might sound like I'm splitting hairs, but I do think it's an important distinction.
Best,
Jacobw 16:05, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Jacobw, Thanks for the quick response and sorry if I created an impression of being offended. I do appreciate your point and will re-formulate the sentence in a more narrative way. I am somewhat new at Wikipedia and feel one should first discuss such issues. But may be you have a point - one should take it sportively and make changes and rechanges in a bit lighter vein. ;-) Thanks once more. --Raj 16:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  My pleasure. Thanks for an interesting discussion, and I look forward to seeing your revision. Best, Jacobw 16:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Unwarranted deletions without consultations 

message: The article seems to contradict itself - it says that the cartridges were greased with cow/pig, but then also states that the fat used was mutton (sheep).
Also, is it definitively known what, in reality, the grease was made of? 
On a more general level, the article seems to be drifting from NPOV - as an example, it seems to feel the need to offer a rebuttal to any evidence that Mangal might not quite have been the hero we want him to be.
Wouldn't it be better to list the pros and cons and let the reader decide on balance? Also, the attribution of names of the rebellion (mutiny to the brits, war of ind. to india) is somewhat oversimplified and basically inaccurate Tomandlu 16:26, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cartridges 

message: [[Mangal Pandey Was a Bhumihar
 Brahmin]] family of nagwa village of Ballia. His gotra was savarna.
Savarni was their gotra. Savarna is a distorted pronounciation of savarni. Mainely savarni gotra found in bhumihar brahmin also known as babhan Libertyofms (talk) 05:32, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mangal Pandey caste 

message: I wanted to find out how mangal pandey performed against other noteworthy desi/indian movies.  While it is stated that Mangal Pandey-The Rising did poorly in box office, the film actually did very well in oversees and did well in India.  This fact can be found on a website that has overall stats on all desi/indian movies.  For further citations and references go to www.boxofficeindia.com where you can see adjusted and unadjusted (in terms of inflation) top box office desi/indian movies.
66.182.249.211 03:54, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Facts about Mangal Pandey box office performance 

message: go to rottentomatoes.com, rating a hit with 88% approval by new york times, variety, etc
65.69.188.137 18:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  mangal pandey strong hit via critics 

message: Mangal was born i 1827 (In the infobox), and how come he joined the army in 1849 at the age of 18 ?? Bipinkdas (talk) 16:33, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Edited Bipinkdas (talk) 16:40, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Age Contradiction

message: The M.L.Ahuja source only says "Some people say that Mangal was born in a Bhumihar Brahmin family…" and that's not good enough for a Wikipedia citation, so I have removed the statement that he was. If anyone has access to the Rupa & Co book and can find a better statement in there, please can you let us know what it says and we can update the article if necessary. Neatsfoot (talk) 12:09, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If it is in the source it may be included, not as an absolute but to mention that it is a possibility to be accepted by some, and the source would support this.- McMatter (talk)/(contrib) 19:35, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's so weakly sourced as to rely on a "Some people say that..." claim, I really don't see that it's worth mentioning at all (especially as anything caste-related can be very divisive), but if someone wants to add words that do not go above what the source says, I won't object. Neatsfoot (talk) 09:35, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

text: Stop demanding and start reading from the top of this section. We have enough problems with Bhumihar caste warriors/glorifiers at other articles without stirring it up here also. Just because :Bhumihar has been placed on 500/30 restrictions does not mean people should export the disruption elsewhere. - Sitush (talk) 20:11, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Respected sir, there is a statute of him in balia depicting him as bhumihar brahmin.  Government installed that statute. GRAI777 (talk) 19:29, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bhumihar Brahmin 

message: He was born in Bhumihaar Family. Anubhav9415 (talk) 10:26, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see the section immediately above this one. - Sitush (talk) 10:33, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2017 

message: "Pandey recovered and was brought to trial less than a week later. When asked whether he had been under the influence of any substances, he stated steadfastly that he had mutinied on his own accord and that no other person had played any part in encouraging him."
Several lines later:
"At his court-martial, he stated that he had been taking bhang and opium, and was not conscious of his actions on 29 March."
I wasn't there, so I will refrain from expressing an opinion. But the above statements clearly do not match.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.56.93.230 (talk) 11:53, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistency in trial report 

message: He can't have been an Indian citizen, the nation did not exist, and it's hard to see how he was a "citizen" of a company, might be best to leave it out.Slatersteven (talk) 12:59, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Citizen ship

message: Mangal Pandey was born in Nagwa, a village of upper Ballia district, Ceded and Conquered Provinces (now in Uttar Pradesh), to a Hindu Bhumihar 
Brahmin family.
Mangal Pandey had joined the Bengal Army in 1849. In March 1857, he was a private soldier (sepoy) in the 5th Company of the 34th Bengal Native Infantry.
:Sources (please read wp:or and wp:rs?Slatersteven (talk) 10:45, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:32, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2021 

message: he belongs from bhumihar Brahmins family Slatersteven (talk) 10:44, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sources (please read wp:or and wp:rs)?Slatersteven (talk) 10:45, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  caste of Mangal Pandey 

message: 2409:4063:6C97:575:D6CB:D6AC:818B:F38B (talk) 12:18, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:23, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2021 

message: Mangal Pandey's caste as being Bhumihar is not supported by any of the sources referred in the article. Primary research is not acceptable on Wikipedia, therefore primary sources are to referred to in the secondary sources published elsewhere. 
As to his age and place of birth, source for Britannica article entry on date and place of birth is not known; Amaresh Misra in Mangal Pandey: the true story of an Indian revolutionary on pages 15-16 and 23 mention the place and date (similar as Britannica entry, however the date is rough estimation since the said document has Hindi/Hindu calendar date), citing a document whose only proof is that he has seen it with his eyes as it is kept by people claiming to be of his clan, without providing any photographic proof of the document; Rudrangshu Mukherjee in Mangal Pandey: brave martyr or accidental hero, provides a transcript of the court martial trial of Mangal Pandey as appendix wherein the age of Pandey and the duration of his service on the day his execution was ordered is given as a court record (date of birth being 26 years 2 months and 9 days ago, while joining of service being 7 years 2 months and 9 days on 6/7 April 1857, this 28/29 Jan 1831, and 28/29 Jan 1850), which is much more reliable. The news reports talk about the primary sources available with Ballia village people proving place and date of birth of Pandey, yet no public record of those sources are available or have been referred to in reliable secondary sources. Thus, the article edit should only be made after reliable sources are made available. Seomelono (talk) 22:57, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caste and Age 

message: Mangal Pandey should be in the rebellion but he was in the east indian company.. That shows that he don't love its country 2409:4062:2D92:A503:89D3:A906:31C7:13D5 (talk) 02:12, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mangal Pandey in 34th regiment in BRI of East Indian company why? 

message: Story of Mangal Pandey in revolt of 1857 61.3.233.239 (talk) 13:55, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: What are you referring to? Slatersteven (talk) 13:57, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Social 

message: I want to add some more details about how Shaikh paltu captured Mangal Pandey and about how the British confiscated him 116.206.202.188 (talk) 10:47, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Such as? Slatersteven (talk) 11:42, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:55, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

text: Source? Slatersteven (talk) 13:03, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 6 March 2023 

message: he is a best person in the world 45.117.64.223 (talk) 06:47, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  mangal panday  

message: Story of Mangal Pandey in revolt of 1857 61.3.233.239 (talk) 13:55, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you want us to do? Slatersteven (talk) 12:48, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  social  

message: 103.252.27.41 (talk) 14:32, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: We have discussed this many times, we need a reliable source to make this claim. Slatersteven (talk) 14:35, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2023