Talk:International reactions to the assassination of Benazir Bhutto

message: There is no "international reactions to the JFK assasination" article, neither one concerning the assasination of Gandhi. Yet, here we do have one about "Princess Bhutto". The amount of honors accorded a woman who got kicked out of office twice on verified corruption charges is more than sickening.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.61.54.93 (talk) 11:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably because there was no Internet when Kennedy and Gandhi died, meaning sources were much less available. WWGB (talk) 11:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

text: It's not Wikipedia's job to selectively include subjects based on how they fare/fared in current/past political climates -- rather, we include whatever is notable and verifiable, which Bhutto, her assassination, and the international response thereto all clearly are.  Wikipedia's not a place for the pushing of political opinions, such as the naked bias displayed here.  Also, Princess?  There's a new one... Ashdog137 (talk) 08:13, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think he was alluding to Princess Diana. WWGB (talk) 08:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia or wiki-index?

message: Here is a problem, do the House Speaker and the Senste majority leader, who do represent the United States legislative branch or go into the non-governmental part. This is a problem when many running for the President are currently in the U.S. Senate. Richardkselby (talk) 03:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Per the way we've done the statements from other countries, leaders of legislative bodies have been cited in the country's section -- even minority/opposition leaders have been cited thusly (see France, for example), although a quote from the UK Leader of the Opposition was pruned before this page was forked and should probably be found and restored. Ashdog137 (talk) 03:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Now, how bout Patrick Leahy , who is Chm. of the Senate Judiciare Committee, or Senators Obama or Clinton who are running for president? Richardkselby (talk) 03:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be curious to see what consensus would be for that -- my gut response is that they're not notable enough for inclusion in this instance.  My feeling is that the appropriate parties to include would be heads of state (Presidents/Kings), foreign ministers, heads of government (prime ministers), and top legislative leaders (Speakers/Majority Leaders and Leaders of the Opposition/Minority Leaders) -- thus, committee chairmen, individual Senators/Congressmen/MPs, candidates for election, etc. wouldn't be sufficiently ranking to express their nation's position.  Of course, that's just my thought -- other thoughts? Ashdog137 (talk) 03:31, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Political Statements

message: Many U.S. Presidential candidated offered their opinions on the matter, should they be included?
Richardkselby (talk) 22:01, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this, though I think it would necessitate a separate section -- plus, if we're going to include candidates' statements, we should probably also restore statements from non-governmental sources as well (such as, for example, the U.K. Leader of the Opposition's statement). Ashdog137 (talk) 22:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't be opposed to that. Richardkselby (talk) 00:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree to the above as well. (Hypnosadist) 00:45, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Anyone can think of a catchy name for it?Richardkselby (talk) 00:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

text: We may want to limit this only to heads of state and heads of organizations. Kingturtle (talk) 04:48, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That kind of inclusion not only would inflate this article, but could receive a lot of criticism for being POV biased towards the US.  There certainly is a place for it, but I would suggest that it should be in the candidates individual pages/presidential race pages.  Joshdboz (talk) 12:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Presidential Candiaates

message: Someone needs to copy over the links from the other page. I'm not sure how to do it. S♦s♦e♦b♦a♦l♦l♦o♦s (Merry Christmas!) 22:02, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  :) Ashdog137 (talk) 22:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.S♦s♦e♦b♦a♦l♦l♦o♦s (Merry Christmas!) 22:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Didn't see any problems on a quick look-through -- could you be more specific on where the problems appeared to be? Ashdog137 (talk) 17:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  It looks fine now, maybe it was a temporal problem with the browser. --Tone 14:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Linkage errors

message: I think it's important to add that Bush claimed that he would bring bin Laden to justice but months later he was stating that catching bin Laden isn't a priority.  This would allow a reader to realize that Bush has a tendency to change his mind quickly in matters of security.Reinoe (talk) 22:39, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't really see how that's relevant to the international reaction to Bhutto's assassination. Ashdog137 (talk) 22:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

text: That seems more like a POV statement against Bush, without much relation to the article at hand. S♦s♦e♦b♦a♦l♦l♦o♦s (Merry Christmas!) 00:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Just a POV anti-bush cheapshot with no relation to the assassination. (Hypnosadist) 00:47, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bush' Comments 

message: I added the Dutch reaction but it doesn't appear in the article :S Baldrick90 (talk) 00:06, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's there Baldrick, might be server lag... Edit Centric (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed it -- the section wasn't appearing because the ref tag in the line before it wasn't properly closed. Ashdog137 (talk) 00:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah good. Thank you. Must have overseen it. Baldrick90 (talk) 00:12, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One problem with the source citation though, it's in DUTCH! (English Wikipedia source citations should link to English text.)Edit Centric (talk) 00:14, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Also, is "is a huge blow for the restoration of democracy in Pakistan" a direct quote? If so, we'll want to enclose it in quotation marks. Edit Centric (talk) 00:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Um... If it's in Dutch then how can an English statement be a direct quote? Nil Einne (talk) 12:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The official statement, in English, is here. Bart van der Pligt (talk) 06:37, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Netherlands reaction 

message: Is this template really appropriate, since this page really should only have one article linking to it (the main article on Bhutto's assassination -- which it does)? Ashdog137 (talk) 00:48, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, and I removed it. This story is FAR from over, and the article will most likely either get merged with the assassination article, or have more articles linked to it. This is not only a politics subject, but also an assassination topic as well. Currently, I'm working on the section in Assassination that addresses this...done. Edit Centric (talk) 01:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphan template 

message: are there any nations of importance to the War on Terror or the United Nations that haven't publicly reacted yet? Kingturtle (talk) 05:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I don't know about that, but we haven't heard from Yemen, Venezuela, Panama (or most other Central American states yet!), North Korea, Vietnam, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, Colombia, Bolivia, Cuba, Portugal, Syria, Iraq, Jordan (surprising!), Egypt, the list is there... Edit Centric (talk) 07:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there's ones that haven't responded or ones that no one has added yet? Nil Einne (talk) 12:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it worth listing states that have remained silent? If Syria and Egypt are silent, isn't that noteworthy?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingturtle (talk • contribs) 13:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How could we definitely know that a nation had deliberately remained silent? Perhaps the media chose not to report it, or it is not accessible via the Internet. WWGB (talk) 13:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Go to said nation's official head of state website and see if there is a statement. That would be one way. Kingturtle (talk) 13:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Um except that not every country necessarily puts every single one of their statements on their websites (have you even seen some of the 'crap' that is the official website of some countries?). Clearly this prposal is not acceptable. Your best bet would be to try and contact the embassy and see if you can get their official statement. Be aware that unless you represent a major media organisation you may not have much success. Even then it may take several weeks. Also there are 193 countries and I counted about 80-90 in this article (forgot the exact number and I only did it once) so good luck with your contacting 100 or so embassies. Of course, even once you have done this, none of this can be included in the article since it is original research. The only way we can comment on people remaining silent is if other reliable sources specifically comment on this. Saying other people remained silent because we are unable to find their statement is by definition OR. But if you work for a major media organisation (which as I stated is the only way you're really likely to have any hope of getting a response from everyone) you may have a fair chance of getting your research published anyway. Nil Einne (talk) 09:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  are there... 

message: Do we really need this? Cant this just be summarized by world condemns assasination? This seems hardly useful, unless there are exceptions where any specific country congratulates the attackers, then yes, that would need mentioning, but otherwise 50 countries basically saying the same thing seems like a monumental waste of time, and Im sorry for being a dick about this, since it seems a lot of effort has gone to it.
My opinion is to just remove the whole thing, merge it with the assasination artile, summarize it to a sentence or two about how the world views it, and be done with it. Four years from now, no one will think, "I wonder what Netherlands thought about the attacks, *checks*, oh, they condemned it, but I wonder what SOUTH KOREA thought..*checks*...same, but wait, what about Saudi Arabia! *checks*" 213.42.2.24 (talk) 08:15, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed on all counts.  What a wholly useless page.  And the arguments below about whether or not some organization is an NGO or not, just in terms of criteria for inclusion on this page, are comical.  202.172.106.195 (talk) 05:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: At first I thought this article was of no use. But I now see why this article is of use. How many assassinations receive official statements from 80+ nations? Your not going to find that size a reaction of the assassination of Thiyagarajah Maheswaran. Why? Because the Benazir Bhutto as real significance to international politics. Therefore, it is of use to see the size of the International reaction to the assassination of Benazir Bhutto. Kingturtle (talk) 13:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Useless Page 

message: I moved this from International reaction to the Benazir Bhutto assassination to maintain consistency with the other article. ~EnviroboyTalkContribs - 08:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved 

message: Is the Holy See a NGO? The quote is even explicitly referred to Tarcisio Bertone, which is correctly addressed as Secretary of State. No NGO has a Secretary of State. IMVHO it should be listed under Europe, just like any other state. What do you think? Snowolf How can I help? 10:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is already a Vatican City response under Europe. Looks like double dipping to me. WWGB (talk) 10:50, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oooops. Question: How is Vatican City different from Holy See in this context? Snowolf How can I help? 10:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Vatican City is an actual sovereign nation whereas the Holy See is the religious organization that happens to govern it. However, I'm not sure if there should really be a difference in this case, considering everyone from the Vatican would be speaking for the church. Joshdboz (talk) 12:02, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, I just came here to talk about this. The Evil Spartan (talk) 16:18, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The quote was just stripped out of the existing Vatican City entry and given double-billing; I'm moving it back, for the reasons mentioned here -- that's why it was listed there to begin with. Ashdog137 (talk) 21:10, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Cardinal Secretary of State article states that this individual "presides over the Vatican Secretariat of State"; that article, in turn, describes the Secretariat as "perform[ing] all the political and diplomatic functions of Vatican City and the Holy See".  As such, I edited the Vatican section to refer to the individual by title only, since a post-titular "of the Holy See" incorrectly limits the scope of the position which clearly encompasses both duties to the Vatican City and to the Holy See. Ashdog137 (talk) 08:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Holy See 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Amnesty International.svg

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified