Talk:Guzheng

message: Please see: Wikipedia:External_links and Wikipedia:Spam
for wikipedia policy on External links.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links
1.3 What should not be linked to:
1.3.3. Links that are added to promote a site, by the site operator or its affiliates. See External link spamming. 
1.3.4. Sites that primarily exist to sell products or services. 
LDHan 14:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: An anonymous user has added the following (hopefully somebody can decide if it is worth including in the article, and fix it if so):
The many ways are playing the guzheng are...
Gou Tuo Mou Tuo: The first 4 fingers of the right hand are used to pluck the strings.
Da Cuo, Xiaocuo: Da Cuo is the pluck 2 similar strings of different octaves with your thumb and middle finger, Xiaocuo is to use your 2nd finger and thumb, this is more commonly used when you want to pluck string from the same octave.
Pi: Pi stands for to cut, with your thumb, you make an outward movement with your thumb.
Tuo: When you Tuo, you use either your thumb or 2nd finger to glide over a few strings simultaneously.
Gua, Huazhi, Luanzhi: These 3 words are classified under glissandos which is used to represent wind,waterfalls or such.
Yao Zhi: When you yaozhi, your 2nd finger and thumb interlock together to form an "ok" sign and you lift your pinky over the string's side and shake your finger to repeat the note over and over again.
Sao Yao: Same as yaozhi, just that you omit the pinky part and shake normally.
*I think it will do well if it was formatted into a table form, with Chinese. So far, it is rather messy. --Charlie Huang【正矗昊】 17:48, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fingering/Technique/Method of play

message: Is there a good reason why the 2 pictures were removed? LDHan 01:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reverted the edits and removal of pictures made by user:203.218.217.54 LDHan 10:25, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was me who removed the advertising from the pictures. I have just put one the pictures back in the article, don't know how long it'll stay there though... LDHan 15:50, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, I'm going to try removing the masterxu.com link again and see what happens... --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 20:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of pictures and edits by user:203.218.217.54 00:34, 6 February 2006

message: If anyone knows anything about notable Guzheng players, please add to the list, ideally with some information about each player. LDHan 20:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Guzheng players

message: Regarding the recent edits of the "Master Xu" guzheng company link, are the guzhengs advertised as being made by Master Xu actually made by him or not?  The letter written by Xu states that they are not made by him or his sons.  Badagnani 07:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The most recent edit (early today) made by the anon from Hong Kong alludes to a condition of slavery that the Dunhuang company is purported to keep Master Xu under.  Might this imply that, if indeed he is afraid of repercussions from the company with which he's formally associated, he has written the letters stating that he has no relationship with the "Master Xu" guzheng company, whereas he is actually making guzhengs "under the table" and does not want them to find out?  Just want to explore all the possibilities, as in Rashomon, the story isn't always cut and dried.  Badagnani 19:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I think all this speculation can be avoided simlpy by sticking to wiki policies and remove all commercial links from the article. The problem is the anon Hong Kong  user(s) and the Hong Kong  group of companies and websites keeps on spamming/advertising/vandalising time and time again. LDHan 20:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's one solution, but many of the websites that are both commercial and informational have really good information about the instrument (especially the performer pages).  Badagnani 20:38, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: These commercial websites may have some information, but the "information" is biased and very POV, as they exist to sell products and services. After all this spamming/advertising/vandalising can you really trust what they say? The article should have facts, it's not a place for busineses to advertise or to push their side of whatever dispute that might be going on. So my solution is: no commercial links what so ever. LDHan 14:55, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, I think the fact that wiki doesn't have advertising is very important, let's keep it that way! LDHan 17:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The performer websites are good, though, as they give information about guzheng players (even if the performers are "selling" themselves and/or their CDs there).  Badagnani 18:52, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Master Xu 

message: I've created a set of user templates for guzheng players for them to use on their userpages, here: :Category:Wikipedian guzheng players. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 19:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: User templates for guzheng players

message: OK, why was Wang Fei removed without good explanation? She is a known guzheng player. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 17:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wang Fei

message: There still seems to be spam and inappropriate edits to this article. Someone needs to commit themselves to completely reworking the article like I did to the guqin one. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 01:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Review

message: Were guzheng always made from Firmiana platanifolia wood, or was Paulownia (Paulownia tomentosa) once used, as it still is in the koto or gayageum? Badagnani (talk) 20:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should be paulownia.  "Wu tong" or "tong" covers quite a few species.  I've asked the question to quite a few makers in both China and Taiwan, and they all told me "pao tong" paulownia is the specific wood used for making guzheng.  The term "wu tong" definitely caused confusion.  It's also written in many Chinese literature.  Base on my research, it's very hard to grow Firmiana simplex in the north.  This tree likes warm temperature.  On the other hand, paulownia grows in the north.  These two trees look alike, and most people can't distinguish without certain knowledge.  Many literature says "wu tong" with purple flowers definitely refers to paulownia.  Firmiana simplex has white/yellow flowers.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yukinachang (talk • contribs) 05:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wood 

message: To add:
===轉調箏===
Add 轉調箏 (as seen at YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%E8%BD%89%E8%AA%BF%E7%AE%8F&search_type= )
===蝴蝶筝===
Add 蝴蝶筝 (as seen at http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/5282881-1239512600.html ). Badagnani (talk) 21:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New instruments 

message: Add 蝴蝶筝 (as seen at http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/5282881-1239512600.html ). Badagnani (talk) 21:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 蝴蝶筝

message: I was hoping someone working on this article might be able to help sort things out at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Guzheng_01.jpg. I'm not at all expert on East Asian instruments, I just happen to have taken the photo in question (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Guzheng_01.jpg). It is perfectly possible that the store that had the instrument had mislabeled it: they are mainly an accordion store. Quite possibly I have, following them, titled the photo incorrectly, and described the instrument inaccurately. (Cross posted to Talk:Music of China.)- Jmabel | Talk 05:33, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The lack of a tapering body and lack of elaborate Vietnamese-style mother-of-pearl inlay, as well as the Chinese-style red tassels, show this to be a typical pre-1950s zheng (also called guzheng, meaning "ancient zheng"). "Cheng" is an older romanization that may still be used by some Taiwanese musicians.  1000+ years ago guzhengs had 12 or 13 silk strings, as the standard, traditional Korean gagyageum and Japanese koto have, respectively, then by the early 20th century 16-string steel-string guzhengs became standard, by the mid-20th century 18-string steel-string guzhengs also became available, and soon after the 21-string guzheng with nylon-flatwound steel strings became standard. In Taiwan as well as elsewhere the 16- and 18-string models are still produced and used, by beginners as well as some professionals. The Vietnamese dan tranh is quite similar but if you do a Google search you'll see that there are some stylistic indicators typical of the Vietnamese instrument that the one you have photographed doesn't seem to have. Badagnani (talk) 06:59, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

text: See an image of a typical Vietnamese dan tranh here. Note that the tuning pegs aren't in horizontal rows, as they are in your guzheng photo. Badagnani (talk) 07:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Please let me know if you have any other Asian music images that need identification. Badagnani (talk) 07:07, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  An image here may not be a guzheng 

message: Wikipedia:External links says "Wikipedia's purpose is not to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic".  So, what is so special about each of the links that have been included?  
The worst examples are:
*Wang Changyuan plays Zhan Taifeng (战台风) - A clip from the Chinese film Bai Hua Zheng Yan (百花争艳) (1976) - This appears to be an unauthorized clip uploaded to YouTube of a part of a commercial movie.  A blatant violation of copyright.
*Video of Jiang Xiao-Qing with Ryuichi Sakamoto - Nothing even loads when you go to this.
But, even the links that are valid, seem excessive.  We're opening the door to self-promotion.  For instance, Video clips on Guzheng.hk site superficially is about the "guzheng", but is really a promotional vehicle for a specific artist, which it says "is a premier guzheng artist from northeast China,".  It also sells merchandise, so we're giving a commercial web site free advertising.  Whenever you have a large number of links, and don't impose high standards, it's very easy for people to slip in promotional links.  --Rob (talk) 04:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Having an article about a musical instrument that isn't very well known internationally, in contrast to the piano, guitar, or violin, without excellent video examples, does a disservice to our users, who must be foremost in our minds with every edit we make. I certainly don't wish an "excessive" number of external links. Badagnani (talk) 16:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the list is excessive. I suggest simply applying WP:EL to the list.  I see no rationale for exceptions. --Ronz (talk) 19:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: (ec)None of these links meet WP:EL and they should all be removed. I removed them awhile ago per WP:EL and I now see that I was reverted without explanation by Badagnani. Any information that is in them that can actually help the article should be written into the article and be cited in the References section. Links about subjects only tangentially related to the Guzheng aren't appropriate per WP:ELNO #13. Forum links don't meet WP:ELNO #10. Links should include information that is directly about the topic of this article while being unable to be hosted on Wikipedia, such as copywrited information or lists of statistics. I'm not against appropriate external links, but we shouldnt have inappropriate links just for the sake of having them. ThemFromSpace 19:13, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone ahead and removed them then. --Ronz (talk) 20:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  excessive links 

message: Surely, Lou Harrison was American, not Russian. Norvo (talk) 01:47, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lou Harrison 

message: The notes are called "Sol" and "Si", no So and Ti.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.92.16.238 (talk) 17:42, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the Notes 

message: This section reads like a brochure. How is this "information" relevant? Where is the evidence?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.189.210.228 (talk) 19:58, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "A Gentle Way to Fight Stress" 

message: I'm surprised to see that there isn't any reference to the film Red Cliff, in which these instruments are quite prominent, in this article. Maybe one could be added to the Popular Culture section? R. A. Simmons Talk  03:58, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're referring to scenes like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3SIC6RGKBk those are guqin, not guzheng. Cool scene, but a different instrument. JoBaWik (talk) 20:14, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Cliff 

message: The current article confuses right and left hand playing styles and has stylistic information in the technique section. I will fix those.
Also, I'll remove the link ("MusicDish*China Sounds Pod2 - Opening The Year Of The Tiger". Mi2N Music Industry News Network. Retrieved 28 February 2016.) as it puts the citation in the middle of the article and links directly to a product. JoBaWik (talk) 16:51, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Organization, Right-left hand confusion 

message: Through compiling references to bolster this article I've been impressed by the breadth of documented information available. /Guzheng needs far more than a few tweaks, it is severely lacking. I am working on a new version in my sandbox. But, the history of this instrument and the many aspects that tie into it are immense. What are others' thoughts on redoing this article as well as creating a second "History of" article to keep /Guzheng focused on the instrument/object?JoBaWik (talk) 17:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to Rewrite this article and Create Second "History of" Article 

message: Can we change the current main image? The Chinafest Düsseldorf one? It's blurry and you can barely see the instrument. How about something clearer like? Tooironic (talk) 16:49, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  request to change main image 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
* 
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:52, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion 

message: Since when is Zhejiang province in northern China? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 17:25, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Zhejiang

message: An editor is removing the reference to 2500+ years of history in what I believe is a misreading of the source. I'm unsure if it is polite to tag an editor so I won't just in case, but let me put more information here in case other editors wish to weigh in.
First, my mistake: The citation has a typo in the author's name. It should be Lawergren; the citation had "Lawergen". It was a typo. The author exists; is credited on the first page of the chapter, is Professor Emeritus at Hunter College, and has this source as a publication on his publication page: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/physics/faculty/lawergren/publications
Second: The editor stated in edit notes that the cited paragraph did not back up the statement that there are 2500 years of history. This is incorrect. The paragraph reads: "Texts claim that the zheng was invented during the Qin dynasty (221-206 B.c.). But the excavated prototypes come from sites in south- east China dating from the fifth century B.C. in the ancient territory of Yue." Going off the archaeological record, 500BC + 2000+ years of CE = 2500+ years of history. If the archaeological record was ignored, and only texts were used, that would put the history of the instrument at ~2200 years of history. The sentence of the wikipedia article used the 2500 years backed up by the archaeological record in this source.
Third, the use of "pages=152" in the citation. That is the total number of pages in the work. If that is not what the "pages" field is for then let's certainly omit it.
I will leave this here for now; it would be great for another editor to check if this is accurate, and if yes, return the corrected citation and information to the article, and/or comment here. JoBaWik (talk) 05:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: 2500+ years of History

message: I've just lightly copy-edited parts of both this article and guqin.  I couldn't help noticing that the Table of Contents for the Guqin article is both comprehensive and well arranged, covering most aspects of general interest in a fairly logical order.  For reference, that ToC presently reads as below:
Contents
:1 History
::1.1 Guqin literature
:2 Schools, societies and players
::2.1 Historical schools
::2.2 Guqin societies
::2.3 Players
:::2.3.1 Historical
:::2.3.2 Contemporary
:3 Performance
::3.1 Playing technique
::3.2 Tablature and notation
::3.3 Repertoire
:::3.3.1 Transcription
:::3.3.2 Rhythm in qin music
:4 Organology
::4.1 Construction
::4.2 Strings
:5 Tuning
:6 Playing context
::6.1 Ritual use of the qin
::6.2 Qin aesthetics
:7 In popular culture
:8 Electric guqin
:9 Related instruments
:10 Media
:11 See also
:12 Footnotes
:13 References
:14 External links
The present article already has several similar sections and headings.  But clearly lacking are discussions of notation, rhythm, construction, and media.  And there may be something useful to say about the aesthetics of guzheng performance.   Perhaps we could keep the ToC above in mind as a useful skeleton — with the obvious changes — when expanding and improving the current article.  yoyo (talk) 14:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions for improving and expanding this article 

message: — Assignment last updated by YangyangF (talk) 04:31, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - FA22 - Sect 200 - Thu