Category talk:American Jews

message: Is there a separate category for religious jews versus ethinic jews? - Tεxτurε 21:33, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to recommend that if we do not have such a category, that we do create one.  Whether someone practices Judaism and whether they are descended from ethnic jews seem to be two different things (which often, but not always go hand in hand).  Having one Category doesn't distinguish the different sense in which John Kerry (who has Jewish ancestry but considers himself Catholic) and Madonna (entertainer) (who was born into a Catholic family, but who now is embracing Kabbalah) are each associated with the Jewish heritage. Johntex\talk 21:50, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

text: It sounds like a risky venture. How are we to know to what extent a dead celebrity (or even a living one) is religious? A lot of people don't like talking about their religious beliefs. --Angr/ 10:31, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree re: risky venture -- it doesn't seem like a good idea.  The religious/ethnic distinction is not indigenous to Judaism, and for many Jews it's hard to split these things out.  Of the examples given, John Kerry does not consider himself an ethnic Jew, either and, as for Madonna, she certainly does not practice any religion that could be construed as Jewish.  So this does not seem useful. --AnotherBDA 07:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I don't think so, for two reasons.  One is that American Jews are overwhelmingly Ashkenazi, so it wouldn't solve the problem.  The other is that it's hard to know who is Ashkenazi and who Sephardi in many cases -- many have a parent of each, due in part to the first reason -- so it wouldn't be overly practical, either.  I concur that some subcategorization would be useful, but this probably isn't it.  Maybe by profession (ie why they're famous) -- Jewish American entertainers, Jewish American scientists, etc.?  Does a categorization scheme like that already exist that would lend itself easily? --AnotherBDA 07:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

text: To me this category is a big problem. To list someone as a 'jew' in their biography conveys that they are connected if not to religion then at least to a certain community, which in many of these cases is not true. Therefore (as listed below) it does violate the WP:BLP in that "-Category names do not carry disclaimers or modifiers, so the case for the category must be made clear in the article text. The article must state the facts that result in the use of the category tag and these facts must be sourced". To me the test case would seem to be an non-jew whose family were converted (non-ethic) jews (who although hard to find, I suppose would be entirely possible). Perhaps the best categories to split would be "Self identified Jews in America" (or just 'american jews'), and "Americans of Jewish ancestry" ('ancestry' not 'ethnicity' - where many of the people on this page would have to be transfered). Any thoughts??? --Miscreant 00:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: separate category for religious jews versus ethinic jews?

message: It would be a gross injustice to ignore the hundreds of thousands of Jews in the United States who originate from decidedly un-European places like Syria (mostly in Brooklyn and Deal, New Jersey), Iran (mostly in Los Angeles and Great Neck, New York), and many other Sephardi Jews, Yemenite Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Bukharan Jews, who came directly to the USA or via Israel (it's estimated that since the founding of the sate in 1948 close to one million Israelis have moved to the USA and at least half have been Sephardim) and via other countries, who have made the USA their home. So tread with caution.
IZAK 12:40, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Jews from Syria, Iran, Bukhara, etc, and many Israelis are not from Europe

message: This category is both a parent and a child of :Category:Jewish American history.  It shouldn't be both.  It seems to me that "Jewish Americans" are part of "Jewish American history", so my thinking is that this should be the child, and "Jewish American history" should be the parent.  Comments? -- MisterHand 21:09, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur.  Tomertalk 21:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So do I --Vizcarra 21:22, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Circular hierarchy

message: Although many people who convert to Judaism adopt the title as a "Jew" this is actually incorrect, there is in fact only a few true "Jews" (by race) left. Jew meaning being from the house of Judah and being included in the blessings from the covenant(the chosen people). Yes, people can convert to a religion and i am not saying they cannot do this, but what i am saying is you cannot convert into a race. Most of the "Jews" that believe themselves to be Jews are not even from the house of Judah, they are merely Khazars that converted to Judaism in mass proportions around the 8th century (read The Thirteenth Tribel, by Aurthur Koestler). This converting to Judaism is in fact irony in itself considering true Jews are not supposed to marry outside of the Covenant such as Ham son of Noah did (which is how we still have the African race today, Ham took an African wife and then was cast out by his father soon after the floods ended). Marrying inside of the Covenant was thought to keep the Jewish "Race" pure and unaltered because they were the "chosen race". Which now they allow conversion and everything is still great right? Wrong, the Jews (being the Khazar origin jews) which are now in control over Israel (which by religion is their holy land so i give them that) will not let the newly converted East African Jews, or Jews that have married outside of the covenant citizenship in the country. Which basically by doing this makes them look like they too are part of the "pure" race, which isn't true at all. Which i find quite ridiculous considering all black people have blood ties to the house of Judah through Ham. Which would make that holy land more theirs than the "so-called" Jews. My email is kar98masta@yahoo.com if you would like to speak to me about anything i have posted here, i have been studying the Jewish "race" origins for a while and have read a number of books if you have any questions just let me know.
:Aw, not the Khazar thing again ! Can somebody reply to this, I'm feeling frustrated already Mrbluesky 11:23, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jewish and Judaism...are they the same?

message: In January, an anonymous user added a description to this category limiting it to Americans of Jewish ethnicity/descent.  Upon reading this talk page, I see that this change was done without consensus.  Upon examining the other Jewish-American categories (singers, musicians, and actors), I see that no such limitation exists.  Since it makes little sense to have a person such as Sammy Davis Jr. listed as a Jewish-American Actor and yet have him not qualify as a Jewish-American, I've deleted this stricture from this category.  This keeps it uniform with the other Jewish-American categories.  If editors build a consensus to re-add this restriction, then please consider updating the other Jewish-American categories as well.  I'm only partial to consistent quality.  Rklawton 04:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Every category should have a criteria for inclusion. I added back the earlier criteria, and amended it to include religious belief. If that is not the correct criteria then let's fix it. -Will Beback 20:30, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethnic v. Religious Jews

message: Ideally, this category should only consist of subcategories, with no articles directly listed.  You can help by placing articles into one or more subcategories and changing them so they do not point directly to this category.  If necessary, additional (occupational) sub-cats can/should be added. Thanks Hmains 17:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: subcategories

message: Please see European American article there is not reference about the State of Israel being part of European American. I understand they many descents are from Europe but then it would a different category. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alfiboy (talk • alfiboy 19:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Europe American

message: The category scope is described as "Americans of Jewish heritage, or adherents of Judaism."  This seems to exclude atheists born to Jewish parents.  Is that intended?  If so, please clarify the scope further on the category page.  For an example, I'm wondering if Richard Stallman should be removed from this category.  He's a stanch atheist and religion or religious ceremonies do not seem to have played a role in his childhood, but his mother is Jewish, so Stallman is "ethnically jewish" (if that term exists) but is in no way under the umbrella of the jewish religion.  So is he in or out?  Can someone please clarify the scope of this category?  Thanks.  Gronky 00:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it seems clear enough to me. All notable "Americans of Jewish heritage" are to be included, and U.S. atheists with Jewish parents are "Americans of Jewish heritage", therefore they belong to the category. Mrbluesky 02:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That depends on the defintion of "heritage", and the only defition on dict.org seems to define heritage in terms of possessions inherited, but if you mean for the definition to include atheists born to jews, I'll clarify that on the category page. Gronky 02:39, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the point is though, that by looking at the tag 'American Jew', readers looking at the page don't know if a person is Jewish ethnically, or religiously, or both. Perhaps we should be clearer and separate them? Or create a more convincing category name? Miscreant 05:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The traditional definition of "Jew" simply meant a member of the Jewish people (practice or non-practice of Judaism didn't have much to do with it - "Judaism" is simply a set of rules for the Jewish people; you could compare it to how an American citizen who breaks or does not follow American law is still an American). Being a Jew traditionally would be someone who was either born to a Jewish mother or had a conversion to Judaism. Since so few of the people in this category are converts, it's really pointless to make a distiction (and converts are supposed to be considered just as Jewish as those who are born Jewish). All Hallow's Wraith 05:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Are atheists included?

message: : I see by your posts that you all have a lack of knowledge about the Jewish people. Who said that everyone, who is not Ashkenazic, is Sepharadic? I'm reminding you that the definition of a Sepharadic Jew is a Jew of Spanish/Portugese Origins, and it can be traced easily by three ways. A person's surname (Espinoza and other Sepharadic Jewish surnames), If the family are Ladino-Speaking Jews or not, and the country which the family came from (most of the Sepharadic Jews have lived in the Balkan since they were expelled: Turkey, Bulgaria and Romania, although they spread all over Europe (Russia, The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Czech Republic, Yugoslavia)). The other jews are called Mizrakhi Jews. Roseman10 12:44, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sepharadic and Non-Sepharadic Jews

message: Can we please get all the subcats on the first page? This bug in the wiki software gives the illusion that the subcats end in "J." No good!  Badagnani 20:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Subcats need to all be on first page

message: Is there a category for or list of Americans Jews who emigrated to Israel?  Seems oddly lacking on Wikipedia.  There's an article Americo-Liberian and category Americo-Liberian people, but I can't seem to find anything comparable. -Acjelen 22:22, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds like an interesting category. You should create it. All Hallow's Wraith 03:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: American-Israelis?

message: I would like to see a category Jewish Actors.  We have Artists and Photographers and Writers, why not Actors?
There are quite a few!
I don't know who could set that up, but (s)he would do us all a service!
Websun, 
Canada  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Websun (talk • contribs) 15:23, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Category to be added?

message: I just checked the first ten names listed in this category, and 6 out of the 10 articles do not have any reference in the article that says the subject is Jewish at this time.  Please remember, just because someone has a Jewish-sounding last name, that doesn't mean that they are ethnically or religiously Jewish.  Categories unsupported by a reliable source should not be added to articles per. WP:CAT (and WP:BLP in the case of living persons.)  I fixed those first six articles (Benjamin Aaron, Richard Aaron, Elie Abel, Aaron Abeyta, Abraham Abraham, and Dan Abrams), but if that sample is any indication, then over half of the people listed in this category probably need to be removed.  Please remember, categories are just as affected by Wikipedia's verifiability guidelines as anything else.  Also, if you have some spare time to check some random articles in this category, please do so.  Thank you. -- HiEv 06:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This problem and the comments by User:Notmyrealname in #Need for caution above need to be acted on.  The nonsense currently on the category page needs to be replaced with a clear statement of the limitations that should exist on the use of these categorizations.  Gene Nygaard (talk) 04:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reminder: Category use must be supported by references

message: I've noticed that the number of names in this category continues fluctuates (often losing names instead of gaining them), as it seems that some people like to remove :Category:American Jews from the articles of people who are both Americans and Jews, so this is simply to state for the record: this category, as of today, currently contains 3,037 total names, not including the people contained within all of the subcategories. --Wassermann (talk) 09:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Category count

message: Today I just learned there are 195 American Jews. Does that seem encyclopedic to anyone? Pawsplay (talk) 04:24, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: This category defies logic

message: Why is Paula Froelich alphabetized under "P" instead of "F"? Casey (talk) 05:29, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Alphabetizing

message: This is silly.  Why shouldn't this be at "American Jews"?--Louiedog (talk) 02:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: See recent discussion about this here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Note for the record. Following a full CFD discussion here, the name of this category reverted to "American Jews" from "American Jewish people". Davshul (talk) 10:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: and WHY did we move this from American Jews?

message: Seeing as Jews are defined (both by themselves and by others) as a nation with origins in the Middle East, they should be placed in the Middle Eastern American category along with other Semitic groups. Please discuss.Evildoer187 (talk) 15:54, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. There was a parallel discussion about this in Category talk:American people of Jewish descent#Americans of Southwest Asian Descent where the consensus resolved that they are Middle Eastern and Southwest Asian. Musashiaharon (talk) 21:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Middle Eastern American 

message: I am having a hard time differentiating these two categories. Could somebody shed some light on this please?
--The Streif (talk) 08:58, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:American Jews]] vs [[:Category:American people of Jewish descent]]