Talk:Angel (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

message: This is very short for such a complex and important character to two shows. I'll try to pad this out, but can't guarantee (and it's past my bedtime tonight) — OwenBlacker 23:54, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, I know - I didn't have time to write more than a stub when I came across the fact that the article here (now at Angelus (vampire), with some changes), was essentially an article on Angelus that had been moved to this page, and didn't talk about the main stuff about Angel at all.  So I basically moved that back over to Angelus, and started a stub here.  But you should definitely expand it if you get the chance.  I may try to, as well, although I don't normally write wikipedia articles on Buffy-related topics. john k 05:10, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Those complaints about brevity are from the page's inception over three years ago, and the article had been expanded significantly since then. --Nalvage 09:49, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brevity 

message: Whoever wrote the article seems to have never heard of the paragraph.
I changed the sentence which originally said, "Due to the gypsy curse, sex also poses a risk to Angel, since the "moment of perfect happiness" nearly always occurs for him as a result of orgasm."
This is false, it was made quite clear in Angel (the show) that Angel can have sex without losing his soul, it was only making love that brought him perfect happiness.  --Xyzzyplugh 14:41, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure about the difference between having sex and making love, but I think perfect happiness is the condition for Angel losing his soul. One may then infer that while having sex with anyone but Buffy, Angel is still unhappy on some level. She is his one true love, though they probably won't end up together. Xiner 04:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Because he wasn't perfectly happy. As we saw when they awakened Angelus in season four, there's a lot more to it than just sex these days. He had to reconcile with Connor and Wesley, defeat the bad guy, and then have his moment with Cordelia, or at least, think all of that happened, before he could lose his soul. Kusonaga 07:51, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sex, love and everything 

message: The line at the end of the article "Since the television series ended, we've learned more about the fate of Angel and his comrades. We now know that Angel, Spike and Gunn survived the fight." i assume refers to comic books or something, but are these considered canon? I still think the tv series should be considered relatively open ended and maybe this line should be removed or rewritten?
::Nah, it's non-canon. It was left for us to wonder how it ended. Joss Whedon said "Angel lost an arm, Spike got Shanshu and Gunn died" or something along those words in a magazine article but it was considered him joking around since he also mentioned that Xander lost another eye and he wasn't even in the show. The only way that can be canon is if Whedon himself confirms it. I say remove it. --DBGFrost 14:47, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Queen of the Slayers isn't canon.--The Scourge 06:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ending 

message: I was a bit upset to see that my rewrite of the Powers and Abilities section has been almost entirely removed...but it happens, I guess.
Petrus4 02:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to see a new page on Whedon vampires so that the same material on their features need not be repeated on every character page (Angel, Spike, Harmony, Drusilla ...)  —Tamfang 06:29, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please.  I would love that.  :)  -  Che Nuevara:  Join the Revolution 12:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay, I've done it: Vampire (Buffy).  As I'm a novice, feel free to rename it and add whatever scaffolding is customary.  —Tamfang 20:50, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Powers and Abilities 

message: If Penn "satisfies his bloodlust by becoming a serial killer", how does that make him different from any other vampire?  —Tamfang 06:29, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Vampire's bloodlust only comes when they're hungry. It can be satisfying to them, or just another meal. Penn kills his victims first, then enjoys their blood after their dead. At least that's what I think. --DBGFrost 23:54, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Penn 

message: :Angel also possesses a “psychic connection” to vampires he has sired, causing him to experience their activities as dreams, though this ability isn't as developed contexually.
What is the source for this?  As far as it's depicted in Season 2 of Buffy, this does not occur with Drusilla, and it certainly does not occur with Lawson. -  Che Nuevara:  Join the Revolution 18:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Psychic link 

message: Should this be called "Angel (Buffyverse)" now that other pages are going that road? The character started out in Buffy so I think that's inclusive enough a name. Comments? Xiner 04:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, the history will soon be shifted to by an admin, the Buffyverse page is establishing that 'Buffyverse' encompasses the whole fictional universe, plus its easier if all the characters are named in same way -- Paxomen 15:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: The history has now been shifted/moved/merged. --PeruvianLlama(spit) 23:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Buffyverse gets about 300,000 Google hits whereas Jossverse gets only 70,000.  The use of Buffyverse on these pages is also boosted by the fact that it's been used in the title of a published book, and that we have examples of Joss himself using it in interviews. --Nalvage 14:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaming this page 

message: Which one of these names belong to the group of Angelus/Darla/Spike/Drusilla? I've read and heard so many different things. One of which is the title 'Scourge of Europe' solely belongs to Angelus and the other is the group was called the 'Fanged Four'. Can anyone clear this up? --DBGFrost 10:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Scourge of Europe or the Fanged Four? 

message: I've removed Spike from the list of Angel's romantic interests, unless anyone can cite a canon source for retaining him.
:How about the Angel episode "Power Play" where Spike CLEARLY states that he has never been initmate with Angel "expect for that one time". That's canon. Not to mention the interviews with Joss Whedon and the discussions with him on Whedonesque (google it) confirming at least a one night stand between the two. It's canon.
::While that quote can be interpreted in a fannish sense to indicate that they had a "one night stand," it most certainly does not "confirm" anything of the sort.  As I understand it, the quote merely said that "that one time" he and Angel were close.  There is no specific indication that they were romantically or sexually involved, it might have been merely an emotional connection of some sort. john k 06:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Rebecca Lowell and Angel were never romantically or sexually involved, there was only tension and an implied mutual attraction. She's included. For me, Spike/Angel count and should be included, just like Willow's long-time crush on Giles revealed in one episode and her crush on Dracula should be included.  06:41, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spike as romantic Interest?  Pish-tosh 

message: I was just wondering if Joss Whedon has ever given Liam a last name... Does anybody here know anything about it?(Darth Angelus Potter 19:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last Name? 

message: This is a template?  That's absurd.  We should either remove the claim, if it can't be sourced, or if it can be sourced to novels, or something, we should source it to whatever "non-canon" source it can be traced to. john k 17:08, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buffy canon 

message: Figured I should notify a few of the more well known articles of my nomination:
I think this would better most of the articles within the catagory. CaveatLectorTalk 21:24, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catagory for deletion 

message: I thought that, before he headed to LA he became suicidal, that is he went out one morning before dawn and stood on a cliff, or something, waiting for the sun to come up, and then it started snowing! Thus he believed he was destined not just to die, but to serve a purpose, can anyone comment on this? Or provide a quote/Source? Help plz 21:34, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Season 3 episode "Amends". This might have been the work of the 'the Powers That Be'. However I suspect it was the work of the Power that Was, Jasmine and her followers who fiddled with fate to allow her birth. The snowfall has been discussed at TPTB talk page. --Paxomen 00:47, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snowing 

message: I think Angel is left-handed. I never paid attention to the hand he would write or draw with, but I noticed when he held up the drawing of Cordi in 'Inside Out' the spiral binding was on the right side of the paper, where it would usually be if drawn by a lefty (because otherwise the metal is annoying under the left hand).
Can anyone with the DVDs verify or deny this with other evidence? If he is left-handed, it might be mentioned in the article as this would be a detail deliberately put in, possibly to play on deliberate associations to older ideas about left-handedness (sinister, evil hand, etc).
If possible it should also be figured out whether Angelus is the same handedness as Angel.67.169.63.116 21:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently, he's right-handed. I noticed whilst watching Judgment.--The Scourge 11:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left-Handedness 

message: Uhm, why was the image changed, exactly? I think the photo is a better picture, but that may just be me. Kusonaga 18:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So I guess nobody can explain? Kusonaga 08:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Am I the only person who thinks the main image of Angel should have portray the character when he looked, well, attractive? Angel/Angelus of Season 2 was the *definitive* "Demon with the face of an Angel" - long before Boreanaz, well, got fat. (128.243.220.21 21:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  ^ I'm referring to Season 2 of Buffy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.243.220.42 (talk) 21:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The previous image used had no source and no details on fair use. It would've been deleted sooner or later. On a lesser note, I highly doubt Wikipedia looks to put images of characters solely for "attractive" purposes. This is an article, not a celebrity magazine.--The Scourge 20:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main image 

message: Should there be some spoiler tags in the text? It seems like a lot of information pertinent to the series' plotline is revealed. 69.64.229.52 06:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler tags? 

message: "(Episode 4.07 "Apocalypse, Nowish" Note: Since the above was said by the entity that would become known as Jasmine while posing as Cordelia, this specific example of Angel being just a different aspect of Angelus comes from a questionable source to say the least.)"
Someone missed the point. Angel clearly *accepts* Cordelia/Jasmine's assessment, and uses the personal pronoun. Why can't people just accept that half way through Season 4, the writers threw continuity to **** and made Angel and Angelus two seperate consciousnesses when they *never* had been previously. A soul is a conscience, that's all - the rest is Watcher propaganda. The demon that inhabits the corpse is mindless, not sentient. It's the human's conciousness that remains and is swayed by the demonic urges. You think Giles would have been so pissed off at Angel for killing Jenny and torturing him if he wasn't actually responsible? You think Angel would quest so hard for 'redemption' if he didn't commit the crimes himself? Season 4 was a pile of tosh, and they realised their mistake and switched back for Season 5. Angelus is simply Angel without the constraints of humanity to hold back his demonic urges. (128.243.220.42 21:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Animals can kill, you know. No-one is denying that Angel has a demon inside him - the point of contention is whether or not the demon is sentient and 'The Dark Age' proves nothing, I'm afraid. What about all the episodes in which Angel refers to Angelus as "I", eh? What about the fact that the very reason Angelus hates Buffy is because "She made *me* feel like a human being", eh? Even if you want to think that they are totally separate people inhabiting the same body, you have to accept that AtS S4 was the first time in which we had Angel talking about the things Angelus did in the third person (and vice versa).  In most cases, and it is certainly true that episodes conflict with one another from time to time, we are given the impression that Angel is "Angelus with a conscience and the full memory of his crimes" -- not a separate person entirely. I mean, even in Angel Season 4, when Cordelia confronts Angelus she says "We're putting your soul back", not "we're putting Angel back inside you". Angel and Angelus are distinct personalities, certainly, but they belong to the same man. (Notice how 'Angel' exists inside the mindwalk of Angelus and Faith even *before* the soul is released, too). Are people so quick to think that Unsoulled and Soulled Spike are compeltely different people? Nope. So why here? Angel and Angelus are the same mind.(84.71.253.63 (talk) 23:03, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is a link worth checking out if you're interested in the Personal Identity questions surrounding Angel/Angelus: http://www.atpobtvs.com/philos2.html#pia (84.71.253.63 (talk) 00:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Angel vs Angelus

message: :Angel definitely did survive in the continuity according to the IDW comics The Curse and Old Friends. In these publications, Angel, as well as Spike, Illyria and Gunn all survived the final battle, the four leaving L.A. after the confrontation, although they return when duplicates of their deceased members start walking around.
The Curse and Old Friends aren't even part of the canon universe so I'm removing it, unless anyone objects and has confirmation.--The Scourge 06:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's gone.--The Scourge 09:44, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canon issue 

message: I was just wondering if we should change the info in the info box, and some of the other paragraphs on what Angel is from vampire to human. in issue 3 in the CANONICAL Season 6: After the Fall comic book. Angel states in his thought's that he his human, and no longer vampire. I was wondering if we should change the info, saying he's human now. =Smartjoe299  —Preceding comment was added at 23:13, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For almost all of the character's notable history on television and to the public, he is a vampire. That he is a human is simply a recent change.~ZytheTalk to me! 14:21, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but it's a recent change that renders the present-tense vampire references untrue.  Maybe someday Angel will get vamped again; until that happens, this article is dated and inaccurate.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Candall (talk • contribs) 14:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps it would be best to list both in the infobox - as is done for Jack O'Neill's military rank, which changes twice.  --Philosopher Let us reason together. 16:58, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: One would assume that being a vampire already denotes that he was at least once human, and he cannot be both human and vampire at the same time. The point should also not change with every new storyline that emerges. His vampire status is what is essential to understanding the character (which is what WP:WAF talks about for infobox information), not his current human status. His human status is something to talk about in the body of the article, because it's a current plot point, not something that identifies who the character is to the average reader.   BIGNOLE   (Contact me) 17:07, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Angel: Human or Vampire

message: Angel is born in Ireland, and in flashbacks his Irish accent is extremely strong. 
His accent is not extremely strong, it's extremely crap! I admire the effort Boreanaz made, but he really doesn't like an Irish person, not even one from the 18th century. Can't we just leave the part about his acccent out? Allthecoolnamesweretaken (talk) 15:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No. If the article mentions Angel's previous accent from his Irish ancestry, then it's part of the character history. Removing it because you deemed it shabby is a matter of personal opinion.--The Scourge (talk) 15:34, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's just the thing - in some flashbacks, his accent is indeed pronounced, like the Buffy Episode "Amends" or Angel Season 5 episode, "The Girl In Question".  However, in some other flashbacks, he just uses his American accent, which is tad bit confusing.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.66.204.187 (talk) 19:50, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish accent 

message: Just a quick question.  Due to the events of 'After the Fall", shouldn't the beginning of this article state that he was a vampire?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.112.215.165 (talk) 05:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was a vampire??? 

message: Listen up. There is a very insistent anon/group of anons who insist that Angel appeared in episodes of Buffy which he did not. I am tired of changing it. The following episodes are the main issue ones, which I can guarantee, without a doubt, that Angel did NOT appear in and David Boreanaz was NOT credited in:
*"The Pack" and "Nightmares"
*"Flooded" or anywhere in season six for that matter
*"Lies My Parents Told Me"
I invite you to confirm this by watching the episodes and checking the IMDB profiles. As I have every episode both on DVD and in my computer, I am 100% sure of these facts. I have left comments in the code concerning this, but the anons just delete them and add back the appearances. Would anyone who knows that I am right please confirm so that they might get the message. Thank you. kingdom2 (talk) 22:14, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's correct per my knowledge. Jclemens (talk) 23:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Angel also did not appear in Spike: After the Fall #1 or 4. Just in case someone plans to revert them. kingdom2 (talk) 23:24, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episodes in which Angel did not appear 

message: Seriously? That doesn't really sound like a fitting phrase to describe Angel transforming into his Vampire state. Especially for an encyclopedia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.202.97.110 (talk) 13:10, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Vamps out" 

message: The 'After The Fall' section needs to be deleted and rewritten by someone who has read all the issues. It's hopeless as of right now. I'd do it, but I'm only half way through, so there is no point. Lots42 (talk) 00:08, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole article violates WP:IN-U and needs to be rewritten from scratch.  I have a new out-of-universe Appearances section sitting in my sandbox... it's not finished but I'll move it over early if you want.    Paul  730 00:17, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  It still needs episode citations, and could probably use a copy edit, but it's better than that sprawling biography and all that original research.    Paul  730 00:27, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  After The Fall 

message: Since the identity of Twilight and Angel is so crucial to the comic book, I think it merits mention in the lead.  Important facts about a character should appear in the lead.  --TS 19:37, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be only be crucial information to Wikipedia's focus if Season Eight was a newspaper and Angel and "Twilight" were both real world figures. As it stands, it's a plot point in a particular spin-off that means nothing to someone who comes to Wikipedia and looks to the lead for clear, self-explanatory and general summary.~ZytheTalk to me! 19:48, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good point.  The distinction between internal importance and external importance is key. --TS 20:04, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Twilight

message: Angel and Twilight are essentially the same character. Neither his human persona, Liam, nor the soulless vampire, Angelus, warrant their own article, so why should Twilight?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Allycat (talk • contribs) 22:08, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a placeholder. THe real-world information on the leak should be at the Brad Meltzer arc / Season Eight articles and the characterisation stuff should go under the Literature section for the time being. However, it is fine to let this article sit for a little while as the dust settles a bit.~ZytheTalk to me! 00:17, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no question that Twilight should be merged here. It's not even a different personality, just an alias Angel uses (like he used to use "Brian Jensen" in the early seasons)76.123.241.114 (talk) 19:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: I know this is a minor thing, but I'd really like to have Liam's date of birth and date of death on the page. In season 1 episode 15 of Angel, "The Prodigal," we get to see Liam's tombstone. It had the dates "1727-1753" on it. I can't seem to be able to make the edit myself, though. And I'm pretty new at editting Wikipedia. If someone else could include it in the page though, that'd be great. Thanks.
SakuraFanelia (talk) 09:06, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liam's birth and death 

message: Someone please review the section "Appearance". It's not academic, and looks like it was written by a fanfic author.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.112.108 (talk) 17:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appearance? 

message: What a mess. Usually a title like Foo (TV series) refers to an episode of that series. But sometimes an episode has the same name as a character, so the episode here is Angel (Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode). That's fine, as far as it goes: in the spirit of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, readers are more likely searching for the character than the specific episode. But in this case, Angel is probably better known as an Angel character than a Buffy one. Since there was no episode of Angel called "Angel," we could thus safely title this article Angel (Angel), but this fairly ridiculous. Angel (Angel character) is also awkward, and essentially over-precise disambiguation compared to Angel (Angel). A move to Angel (Buffyverse) seems like a decent solution, though no other title uses the (Buffyverse) disambiguator (it appears to have once been standard, c. 2006). And if we did that, would we continue to redirect Angel (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) there as primary topic? I think we should, but if we're going to do that, why move at all? --BDD (talk) 19:01, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problematic name 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Okay in season two when Buffy kills Angel so the world does not get sucked into hell, is not what happens.  She ran a sword through a vampires chest, he did not turn to dust.  She sent a live vampire with a soul to hell to be tortured. Buffy never killed her boyfriend she sacrificed him gave him up.   Okay that's been bugging me for sometime had to say it. Eric Bayne 96 (talk) 06:49, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: , I'm not fully sure what you are stating or what this has to do with the article. See WP:Not a forum. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 14:53, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buffy killing Angel