Talk:Viticulture

message: I hate the way that people can just delete what you worked so hard on and they dont even put a comment in the discussion. My external links are now gone, and I am sad. :(
--Msfwebdude 19:30, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Have no fear, Msfwebdude, nothing is ever lost in the Wikipedia (trust me, I have tried :) Your links are back, through the magic of the "history" tab at the top of each article. Thank you for your contributions. Wnissen 15:05, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion header

message: What a great subject. I think it needs fleshing out a little though. Varieties of grapes and types of viticulture may be a good way to go. Also I heard that there are various practices. For example the French are not allowed to irrigate grapes whereas the Australians do, and this makes a difference in production. But I'd need to get some more info on that though. Harristweed 04:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestions and structure

message: ===Support===
There's been some discussion over on Talk:Winemaking about merging in Field blend there.  The result was support from FlagSteward, AgneCheese/Wine, ---The Bethling(Talk) and mikaultalk for a merger to Viticulture instead. FlagSteward 22:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "The viticulture article is basically about farming.  But field blends are about the make up and balance of the wine. As the articles sit now, field blends fits more into winmakign than into viticulture. "
To which I would say that most field blends are accidents of history - there were a lot in Europe before phylloxera, but when replanting they realised that they got a lot more control over winemaking by picking and vinifying different varieties at different times, and then blending the wine.  I understand something similar happened in California.  So it's very much a vine growing thing and not a winemaking thing, just like the decision of when to harvest, the training system used, amount of irrigation etc are vine growing decisions that affect the final "make up and balance of the wine".
FlagSteward 22:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: In Sauternes, it was actually a long standing tradition to intermix Semillion and Sauvignon blanc vines in the field that they have only recently gone away from. In places like Chile with Carmenere and Merlot, some winemakers have consciously made the decision to leave their vineyards intermixed because prefer the field blended wine to have each separated. AgneCheese/Wine 19:43, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Field blend]] merger

message: There's been some discussion over on Talk:Winemaking about merging in Field blend there.  The result was support from FlagSteward, AgneCheese/Wine, ---The Bethling(Talk) and mikaultalk for a merger to Viticulture instead. FlagSteward 22:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: Siobhan Hansa opposed a merge with Viticulture :
:"The viticulture article is basically about farming.  But field blends are about the make up and balance of the wine. As the articles sit now, field blends fits more into winmakign than into viticulture. "
To which I would say that most field blends are accidents of history - there were a lot in Europe before phylloxera, but when replanting they realised that they got a lot more control over winemaking by picking and vinifying different varieties at different times, and then blending the wine.  I understand something similar happened in California.  So it's very much a vine growing thing and not a winemaking thing, just like the decision of when to harvest, the training system used, amount of irrigation etc are vine growing decisions that affect the final "make up and balance of the wine".
FlagSteward 22:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose

message: I can see both points of view here! On the one hand, it could be considered as part of the winemaking process in that the different varieties are chosen and planted previously and are then harvested/processed/fermented to make a field blend wine, as opposed to harvesting/processing/fermenting separate varieties and then blending in the winery. The blending is done previously and is permanent and inflexible. On the other hand, it could also be considered as part of viticulture in that it's inherently agricultural. 
I think the main question here is: "Is (or was) field blending an active viticultural decision taken by winegrowers?" or was it just an accident of history, as FlagSteward says above.
*If it was an accident of history, then no real viticulture decisions were taken, and so it shouldn't form part of the Viticulture article. (Neither should it form part of the Winemaking article in this case.) It could form part of an article on Mediaeval Vineyards or such, for example.
*If mixed varietal vineyards were planted on purpose, then it was a winemaking decision, and so 'Field blend' should go into the winemaking article.
(I confess that I'd never heard of 'field blend' before reading the article. so I would tend to think that such vineyards were accidents of history and not planted on purpose. I've never heard of or seen a modern mixed variety vineyard.)
--BodegasAmbite 11:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In Sauternes, it was actually a long standing tradition to intermix Semillion and Sauvignon blanc vines in the field that they have only recently gone away from. In places like Chile with Carmenere and Merlot, some winemakers have consciously made the decision to leave their vineyards intermixed because prefer the field blended wine to have each separated. AgneCheese/Wine 19:43, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dilemma

message: Some content in the Green Harvest is from merged content form the stub Green Harvest. Some content in the Field blend section is from merged content from the stub Gemischter Satz. AgneCheese/Wine 05:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Attribution note

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thread_title: [[WP:FOOD|WikiProject Food and drink]] Tagging

message: In the second paragraph this article discusses the native territory of Vitis Vinifera. Why? Wikipedia policies and guidelines emphasize the need for a world view, not a European view. Vitis Vinifera is just one of many cultivated spieces of grapes. In North America we cultivate Vitis Labrusca, Vitis Aestivalis, and others for multiple uses. 
Further, all English dictionaries define Viticulture as the science, cultivation and study of grape growing. Viticulture and wine making are two entirely different things. This article should not be limited to Vitis Vinifera, and it shouldn't go into field blends or green harvests. 
Anyone care to disagree?
gregmg
*Well as an American, I don't think this article is unfairly Euro-centric but I would agree that it is "wine-centric". I would whole heartedly support the addition of material on viticulture of table grapes and other non-Vinifera grapes. However, I wouldn't want to see the winemaking aspect removed. Items like field blends and green harvest were actually merged into this article (rather haphazardly, I admit) because the content doesn't really merit their own articles apart from the context of Viticulture. I don't think subtraction is the way to go here. I would suggest working to improve this article with the content that is missing and then evaluating it from there. If the article becomes too largely and unwieldy then we may need to split out the winemaking related content into a new Viticulture (wine) article. But until this article is built up, I don't see the prudence in grabbing the pruning shears right now. AgneCheese/Wine 07:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, not quite. In fact my Viticulture text book actually has more details about field blends, pruning and green harvest than any of my enology text books. I would also disagree with the redirect since the science of winemaking is different than the actual act of winemaking. Its kinda like Metallurgy versus Metalworking. While our Enology article certainly needs vast improvement, it is too important of a topic in its own right. AgneCheese/Wine 00:00, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Viticulture vs. Enology 

message: I'm moving this here because it simply doesn't belong in the article in its current form. There is some nuggets of useful information and, provided the source can be verified, some parts should be rewritten for inclusion in a non-essay, NPOV fashion. AgneCheese/Wine 04:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Essay

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  Forming Grapes