Talk:Alan IV, Duke of Brittany

message: What an absurd biography !!! I would be quite curious to know your sources...
1) A Norman invasion of Brittany in 1086 ? William was busy in England in 1085 and 1086 waiting for a possible invasion by Cnut of Denmark, during which time he ordered the famous Domesday book enquiry. The next year, he was fighting in France and died there. Alan was not in a difficult position within his duchy, quite on the contrary. He gained victory over his last opponents in that year.
2) William gave his daughter to Alan as to seal an alliance and ensure the safety of his Western border while he was busy against other foes (Maine 1083, Cnut 1085-1086, King of France 1087).
3) The reason behind the death of Constance is not known. The rest is pure romance.
4) Alan played the key role in Henry I's victory at Tinchebray in 1106, showing his desire to maintain good relations with at least the most promising (or least threatening) of his Norman neighbours. Of course, he chose the wrong one for his dynasty's sake...
5) He was a strong headed warrior who vigorously established his rule by way of arms right from his accession, quite unlike his meek father Hoel. He remained respected until his abdication in 1112. He retired due to his poor health and lived on in a monastery until 1115.
6) In Breton, "Fergant" is a superlative of "brave", akin to Scottish "Fergus".
  :  A man named 'Alan of Brittany' is one of the largest landowners listed in Domesday Book, based on a survey carried out in 1086.  I took this to be the same person, and I was trying to find out more about him.  He is said to have been the leader of the substantial Breton contingent at the Battle of Hastings, which would explain the large grants of land in England to him.  But I don't see any of that here.  Is he a different Alan?2A00:23C5:6492:8D01:972:3C04:F662:E9A6 (talk) 14:48, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: To answer my own question, the 'Alan of Brittany' listed in Domesday Book is indeed a different Alan.  The DB Alan is said to have been a member of a junior branch of the ducal family, the Counts of Ponthievre. 2A00:23C5:6492:8D01:D4CB:B2D7:F6B5:61B1 (talk) 10:09, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Having noticed frequent use of puns by medieval people, especially Bretons, I wonder: is "Fergant" a pun on the French and Gallo phrase "Fer-gant", meaning "Iron-glove"?  (Gallo is the second language of Brittany, which in this period was also the shared language of the Armorican states of north-west France: Normandy, Maine, Anjou, Touraine and Blois.) Zoetropo (talk) 09:23, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Is Alan IV's epithet a pun?

message: What was the Church's immediate reaction to the proposed marriage of Alan IV with Constance of Normandy?  As I understand it, they were well inside the proscribed degree of consanguinity, namely that marriages were normally prohibited within seven generations of descent: Alan's mother, Duchess Hawise of Brittany, was a double-second cousin of Constance's father King William I of England.  Although the Church had no formula for the "doubling" of ancestry, the fact remains that they had common ancestors only  in Duke Richard I of Normandy, his wife Gunnora, Duke Conan I of Brittany and his wife Ermengarde of Anjou (born 965), only four generations earlier.  William and his wife Matilda faced clerical opposition to their marriage due, to the best of my reckoning, to their common descent from Rollo and his wife Poppa of Bayeux, no less than six generations back.  Given his Angevin line of descent, this concern also applies to Alan IV's second marriage to Ermengarde of Anjou (born 1068), does it not? Zoetropo (talk) 09:23, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Consangunity between Alan IV and Constance of Normandy