Talk:Guantanamo Bay detention camp suicide attempts

message: As I expected, this issue has had a lot of work done. However it has not been linked to from the main page, even though I recommended that yesterday Nil Einne 13:06, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm please to see that it finally appears in the main page. Despite the fact it was obvious from the start that this would receive (and as has happened even during the World Cup) widespread international sustained attention and widespread international sustained media coverage and widespread sustained work on wikipedia, there was a refusal to feature it. This is even though the French Open victors was featured immedietly despite the fact they received far less attention, media coverage and work and similarly the Antikythera clock thing which I haven't even heard of outside of wikipedia was also featured... Nil Einne 14:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Well done 

message: Which is why I removed :Category:Guantanamo Bay detainees and :Category:Extrajudicial prisoners of the United States, which are for biographical articles.--Pharos 04:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think these two categories do need to be linked to this artical as this is an artical about the things in the category. This artical is about "Guantanamo Bay detainees" and "Extrajudicial prisoners of the United States" and categories are there to link together information.Hypnosadist 11:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article not about individual prisoners 

message: At the base of this article it mentions that a hunger strike commenced in the prison in August 2006 (which is clearly impossible.). I would correct this myself but I don't know the details.
--Raphael 07:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hunger Strike dates 

message: In this Wikipedia article, Cully Stimson is quoted as saying:
"It is unclear why the American authorities are continuing to pretend that all three men were "violent terrorists", since at least one of them had been determined not to pose any threat at all and was in fact due to be released, though the Americans had not bothered to tell him this."
This appears nowhere in the cited artile.  Also, there is some obvious bias in this comment, through the use of words like "pretend" and the fact that the line appears to have been written by someone who is not American (through the  use of the words "though the Americans...").  Comments like this SHOULD NOT appear in Wikipedia, as it is full of bias and speculation.  The issue that the men may have been falsely detained is indeed relevant, but do not present it as fact in an encyclopedia context.
The worse part is that it is appended to the quote of the assistant to the Secretary of Defense.  That's a HUGE mistake as it looks like this comment is coming from the government (unless one happens to notice it's written in 3rd person).
I will correct this while trying to respect the intent of the message.
--SirLamer 15:30, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While it's clear that addition was a POV comment by someone and rather badly inserted and you did the right thing in removing it, it seems rather unlikely anyone that read what was written could have thought it came from the assistant. Clearly he would not have said they were violent terrorists and then say it's unclear why Americans pretend they've violent terrorists. For that matter, the quotes had already ended. Unsourced POV? Yes. Poorly done? Yes. Likely to be attributed to Cully to anyone reading the article? No. Nil Einne 15:46, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  On quotation errors 

message: or let's make an article on wikipedia on everyday news...you can't have it both ways.  -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.80.113.51 (talk • contribs)  17:56, 2006 June 14
:in fact let's do away with the whole Current_events section, who needs to know any of that stuff ;-) --duncan 06:39, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ARTICLE SHOULD BE DELETED 

message: Doesn't the word "attempt" carry connotations of an intent that failed? Since three detainees actually committed suicide, shouldn't the title be changed? 惑乱 分からん 15:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could just be 'Guantanamo suicides', except it also covers suicide attempts.  How about 'Guantanamo suicides and parasuicides', bit wordy though.--duncan 16:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I vote for 'Guantanamo suicides' with a section about the failed attemps and suicidewatch systems at gitmo to stop successful attempts (this makes parasuicides' a more POV claim in my opinion).Hypnosadist 11:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Guantanamo suicides and attempts"? 惑乱 分からん 12:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I like your suggestion, Hypnosadist (although I don't get how parasuicide = POV?) --duncan 06:41, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just going to suggest that but you beat me too it :-P As for parasuicides, maybe it's not POV but it should be avoided IMHO because it's not commonly used and will just cause confusion Nil Einne 16:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

text: When I started this article I picked Guantanamo suicide attempts over Guantanamo suicides for several reasons:
#We know that there have been many more suicide attempts than those acknowledged by the DoD.  The press reports all agree that the DoD acknowledges 41 attempts.  But differing accounts say that 23, 25, 29 detainees made those attempts.  The DoD also told Joshua Colangelo-Bryan that his client Juma Al Dossary made 13 suicide attempts.  One of Mishal Awad Sayaf Alhabri's suicide attempts left him with sufficient brain damage that his Administrative Review Board hearing says he will have to be kept in a care facility for the rest of his life.  Although he can respond to simple commands.  But, he continued to engage in "self-injurious behavior" -- ie, further suicide attempts.  So, the arithmetic doesn't add up.
#These three men are described as the first deaths at Guantanamo.  I am extremely skeptical.  Sami Al Laithi had a guard jump on him and break his spine.  The IRF routinely beats detainees so seriously they are left in comas, or catatonic.  One beating was enough to leave Sean Baker with enough brain damage that he will be left with seizures for the rest of his life.  Colangelo-Bryan said his client Al Dossary was moved to a cell-block where there was no one he could talk to, because all the other detainees there had been driven barking mad, and could merely scream incoherently at the top of their lungs, 24x7.  There is more public scrutiny on the camp now.  They couldn't get away with hushing up deaths now, while maybe they could have earlier.  --  Geo Swan 18:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

text: What do you think of the above suggestion? Nil Einne 16:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attempts? 

message: I agree, the article title should be renamed or a seperate article should be created for the three suicides that haven taken place. It is misleading to label "attempts" when they have succeeded. - Sohailstyle 16:36, June 15, 2006 (UTC)
RE: First??  How do we know?? "The June 10 2006 suicides were the first inmate deaths at the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp."
I agree.  These were the first PUBLICIZED deaths.  We really can't speak to what actually happened.  If we find out infomration later about previous deaths, then the article fails.  I think it should be documented that these are not the first deaths, but the first deaths that were publicized.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.24.58 (talk) 04:26, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Re:Attempts?

message: This article is about suicides and suicide attempts in Gitmo but it says Isa Khan was released and is considering suicide. I think that should be removed because he isn't in Gitmo and didn't attempt a suicide.
M&M  —Preceding unsigned comment added by M&MSketchup (talk • contribs) 22:39, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isa Khan 

message: The statement 
The government’s investigation is slipshod, and its conclusion leaves the most important questions about this tragedy unanswered.
is hopefully a quote.  I formatted it as a block quote but I couldn't find it in the article referenced below the quite.  If this isn't a quote it feels like a violation of WP:NOR and/or WP:NPOV. It should either be rewritten to do more clearly reference the article that it came from, or removed.
To be more on point, the entire section should be eliminated under its separate sub-heading, and the link placed with the article in its proper place.  It takes another bite at the apple, it does not flow with the subject.--Yachtsman1 (talk) 04:56, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The statement is a direct quote from this press release.  Geo Swan (talk) 06:52, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote or NPOV? 

message: Okay, you've been Bold in adding the category "Criminals who attempted suicide", I Reverted, and now we can Discuss (per WP:BRD).
I assert that the detainees (as several administrations have been so meticulous to call them) at Guantanamo Bay are not criminals, having not been convicted of any offense under a criminal code, that the legal basis for detaining them is entirely under the laws of war (allegedly).  "Prisoners who attempted suicide" would (I think) be acceptable, but "criminals" assumes some kind of offense or even guilt that has not been judged, or even charged. - J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 22:09, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Crimminals"? 

message: Changed the header for this section, as "counter-reaction" is POV. Secondly, an anonymous source, even if later identified by the press, cannot be counted in the "Government response". Therefore, I deleted the material based on an anonymous doctor's comments. Only the named Admiral Harris can be considered a "Government response" to assertions by others that the detainees committed suicide because of despair/depression. Following is what was deleted. If it is to be used, it has to be characterized in a different way. Better would be to summarize it. It is now more than 6 years past the events.Parkwells (talk) 17:45, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Government response (rather than Government counter-reaction

message: Given there is an article on Accusations of homicide at Guantanamo, it appears there is too much content here about questions/comments on the government's explanations. The lengthy account of Denbeaux's 2009 report, Death at Camp Delta, appears to belong there. Also, the last paragraph in that section does not relate to responses to Denbeaux's report, but to the January 2010 article in Harper's by Scott Horton, so it is inappropriate in this section and I will delete it.Parkwells (talk) 17:45, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Overlap

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