Talk:United Nations list of non-self-governing territories

message: I think the article may lack neutrality. The section “criticism” is too long, almost longer than the rest of the article itlself. It also looks like the editors are trying to defend the disputed territories status quo. I believe in the good faith of the editors, but we can’t ignore this is the English Wikipedia, and most of the territories or dependencies referred on this article are British. Gonzaloges (talk) 03:32, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: ====Preliminary notes====
WCM does not find Ngrams to be persuasive evidence. Although I disagree with him on that point, as a gesture of good faith, I have analyzed the sources he himself provided, which he believes to support his position that NSGT ought to be capitalized. WCM provided two sources: 1 and 2. 
I have listed page numbers for every use of NSGT within these sources below, indicating for each which book it came from, 1 or 2; whether or not it is capitalized, divided into three categories: uses that occur in a heading or publication title, and are therefore headline style capitalized; uses that occur within excerpts from United Nations documents, and are capitalized for that reason; and uses that occur within running text.
A couple of notes useful for reading the list: first, I've indicated locations in an x:y format, where x is the book number and y is the page number within the book. Second, where there are multiple instances of NSGT that are treated the same on a single page, I have listed them only a single time. Where NSGT is used differently, I added the same page number to multiple lists (see, e.g., 1:20 below, where NSGT was used lowercase in running text three times and capitalized within a heading twice). 
====Analysis====
*Running text uses: all of these are lowercase
**1:9: lowercase
**1:11: lowercase
**1:13: lowercase
**1:16: lowercase
**1:18: lowercase. 
**1:19: lowercase
**1:20: lowercase
**1:21: lowercase
**1:22: lowercase
**1:23: lowercase
**1:36: lowercase
**1:37: lowercase
**1:39: lowercase
**1:42: lowercase
**1:43: lowercase
**2:45: lowercase
**2:64: lowercase
**2:126: lowercase
**2:235: lowercase
**2:236, note 34: lowercase
*Heading uses: Headings and publication titles in the books WCM linked to are consistently headline-style capitalized (or, in the case of chapter names in the header, all caps). Because headline-style capitalization capitalizes words even if they are common nouns, capitalized uses of NSGT that occur within headlines should not factor into the CAPS analysis. Unless otherwise noted, each of the below uses of NSGT occurs within a heading.
**1:iii: capitalized
**1:iv: capitalized
**1:v: capitalized
**1:1: capitalized
**1:2: capitalized
**1:4: capitalized
**1:6: capitalized
**1:8: capitalized
**1:10: capitalized
**1:11: capitalized, publication title, "Declaration Regarding Non-Self-Governing Territories"
**1:12: capitalized
**1:13: capitalized, heading and publication title, "Declaration Regarding Non-Self-Governing Territories"
**1:14: capitalized
**1:16: capitalized
**1:18: capitalized
**1:20: capitalized
**1:22: capitalized
**1:23: capitalized
**1:24: capitalized
**1:26: capitalized
**1:28: capitalized
**1:30: capitalized
**1:32: capitalized
**1:34: capitalized
**1:36: capitalized
**1:37: capitalized, heading and organization name, "Division of Information from NSGT"
**1:38: capitalized
**1:40: capitalized
**1:41: capitalized, publication title, "Resolution on Regional Conferences of Representatives of Non-Self-Governing Territories"
**1:42: capitalized
**1:43: capitalized
**1:44: capitalized
**1:45: capitalized, publication titles, "Text of Debates on Trusteeship Agreements and Non-Self-Governing Territories" and "Proposed International Labour Obligations in Respect of Non-Self-Governing Territories"
**1:46: capitalized, publication title, "Trusteeship and Non-Self-Governing Territories in the Charter of the United Nations"
**1:60: capitalized, heading/publication title in excerpt
**1:105: capitalized, heading/publication title in excerpt
**2:109: capitalized, publication title, "Chapters of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories"
*Excerpts: uses within excerpts or quotations from UN documents and other primary sources are generally, though not universally, capitalized. However, because CAPS refers only to , UN sources do not factor into the CAPS analysis at all. 
**1:43: lowercase, excerpt from agreement between UN General Assembly and the Food and Agriculture Organization
**1:60: lowercase in body text of excerpt from "Resolution on Non-Self-Governing Peoples Adopted by the General Assembly, February 9, 1946"
**1:72: lowercase, excerpt from "President Truman's Message to Second Session of West Indian Conference, St. Thomas, Virgin Islands of the United States, February 21, 1946"
**1:73: lowercase, same as previous
**1:104: capitalized, excerpt from "Resolution on the Transmission of Information Under Article 73(e) of the Charter
**1:106: capitalized, excerpt from above
**2:111: capitalized, quotation from Article 1 of the "UN Covenants on Civil and Political Rights, and Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights"
**2:284: capitalized, excerpt from UN General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV)
**2:286: capitalized, excerpt from UN General Assembly Resolution 1541
**2:288: capitalized, excerpt from UN General Assembly Resolution 1541
====Conclusion====
As the lists above show, every instance of NSGT that occurs within the running text of these two books is lowercase. NSGT is capitalized only when it occurs in a headline, publication title, or name of an organization, or within an excerpt from a UN or other primary source document. Because UN documents are not material to a CAPS analysis, the plain import of the evidence WCM has provided is that independent reliable sources tend to lowercase NSGT. Wallnot (talk) 20:10, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you please cite a page number, as your link does not lead to a specific page? I'm honestly not sure which example you're referring to, as I reviewed all uses very carefully. Wallnot (talk) 12:52, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Analysis of individual sources provided by WCM

message: As the lists above show, every instance of NSGT that occurs within the running text of these two books is lowercase. NSGT is capitalized only when it occurs in a headline, publication title, or name of an organization, or within an excerpt from a UN or other primary source document. Because UN documents are not material to a CAPS analysis, the plain import of the evidence WCM has provided is that independent reliable sources tend to lowercase NSGT. Wallnot (talk) 20:10, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Conclusion

message: See , which is a chapter on the UN charter but does not "quote" the UN Charter.   Please stop badgering me and just allow people to make their own minds up by the arguments presented. WCMemail 06:53, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you please cite a page number, as your link does not lead to a specific page? I'm honestly not sure which example you're referring to, as I reviewed all uses very carefully. Wallnot (talk) 12:52, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  I don't think so  

message: Hello people from wikipedia, so I was reading the article and I noticed that it seems to completely ignore the 1958 French constitutional referendum. I understand it is not mentioned in the "Former entries" tables because that's not when they were delisted (except for Guinea obviously), but I believe that it could be mentioned as an example of a referendum in the criticism/referendums part and in the "Current entries" table under "Referendum(s)".
Also to make it clear, the 1958 French constitutional referendum was essentially two referendums into one, where european France + French Algeria voted on whether they should adopt a new constitution while each colonies voted on whether or not they should become independant(with french polynesia and new caledonia having voted to remain). Hellovikipediapeople (talk) 20:38, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, we would want a source specifically linking that referendum to this list to discuss it here, for example if it has been cited in debates over French Polynesia or New Caledonia. CMD (talk) 01:55, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  1958 French constitutional referendum 

message: Obviously this isn't a list that we can change, but I'm curious as to why French Polynesia and New Caledonia are included, yet the four other French Overseas Collectivities are not?
XA1dUXvugi (talk) XA1dUXvugi (talk) 22:42, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Both were initially removed from the list along with other French overseas territories in 1947, after the establishment of the French Fourth Republic and France having considered these territories integrated and thus no longer colonies. Both were re-added to the list by the UN at later points, due to cooperation between local separatist parties and Pacific states. CMD (talk) 00:40, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  French Overseas Collectivites