Talk:People of Assam

message: Would it be appropriate for me to add the map from Assam here? It's probable that a lot of readers would benefit from visual information on the region's location. I'll do so in the next several days if there are no objections. Adlerschloß 22:08, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I support the idea of putting the map of Assam.
Deepraj 13:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

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thread_title: File:Assamgirl.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: I propose that the page Assamese people be merged into People of Assam. Both the articles are discussing same topic. Marlisco (talk) 04:46, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the merge tag, it was disputed and no further discussion in two years. Fences&Windows 10:30, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: Well, the intent of both of the articles need to be first understood! 
Assamese people is an article that speaks about people from Assam region - Brahmaputra Valley, whose primary language is Asamiya or Assamese and thereby, the lineage is determined by the spoken first language Asamiya. It includes Assamese Brahmins (Indo-Aryan group), Ahoms (Indo-Mongoloid group), Kalitas, Assamese Sikhs, Assamese Muslims and all other groups whose first language is Assamese that in turn associate them with the culture, tradition and history of Assam. These groups may be migrant from different regions in the ancient period however, all of them had imbibed this language and commonly associate with it without any ambiguity. e.g., Assamese Sikhs don't even know a word of Punjabi as the common language they associate is Assamese and follow the Assamese code of conduct regarding food, social discipline and dress. But they are aware of their Sikh identity and do wear the five Ks.http://www.sikhnet.com/news/assamese-sikhs-search-roots-reach-amritsar In fact the Sikh community went in search of their history to Punjab however, their lineage is more embedded with Brahmaputra Valley as for the language - Assamese. The same analogy also applies to Brahmins, Muslims and others who speak Assamese.
People of Assam is a categorization within which 'Assamese people' (Assamese language speakers of Brahmaputra valley) constitutes a part. 'People of Assam' is an aggregate of Assamese people along with people from other regions of mainland Assam hills and plains - Barak Valley and Hill Districts who may strikingly differ both ethnically and linguistically. e.g., Bodo tribe speaks Bodo within the autonomous district of Bodoland, Mising, Motok, Sutiya have their own dialect variants and traditionally don't identify themselves as Assamese, as they don't contribute to the language family of Asamiya  nor they may follow Assamese code of conduct regarding food, social discipline and dress. In Barak Valley, the primary language is Sylheti in spite of it being in Assam where the first official language is Assamese in most of the regions. 
Thereby, 'People of Assam' is anyone belonging to the state of Assam that constitutes the Brahmaputra and Barak River Valleys, and the Hills; and the article cites anyone irrespective of the language family as a representative of that region.
There's no categorization under Wikipedia category as Asamiya or Assamese people unlike Tamilians or Punjabis with the justification that unlike other regions of India, Assam owing to its mixed demographics everyone is not Assamese and tribes and sub-tribes along with a few other communities identify themselves as separate and non-assamese as they may not align with the traditions and culture of Brahmaputra Valley, in general. Though that categorization existed, it was deleted with that reasoning! 
So, as an approach; either a categorization be created like 'Bengali people', 'Gujrati people' and then remove the 'People of Assam' article or else retain both the articles as it is now. You cannot mix everything up! No categorization and also merging articles - both cannot be done! Undo one of these to do the other. 
For Assamese people a Wikipedia categorization in the same name makes sense because of the groups who associate with the language family - Assamese and are a part of common Assamese code of conduct regarding food, social discipline and dress of Brahmaputra Valley. It is unfair not have a category for them and have that for every other community in India. 
Please think!  It's easy to put a proposal however, sometimes make an effort to understand the crux of it. I recommend to create a Category as Assamese people and not to merge these articles!
--Rex86 (talk) 23:01, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the merge tag, it was disputed and no further discussion in two years. Fences&Windows 10:30, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: The HbE frequency tables are not relevant in the article, since the frequencies are determined by other factors (rainfall etc.) and interaction with other alleles.  I am parking the tables here for a discussion, if needed.  Here is an example of how HbE could increase in a population from less than 10% to more than 40% in about 50 years. "An increase in HbE among the Totos of Assam-West Bengal (from 0.099 in 1962 to 0.438 in 2013) with the high incidence of consanguineous marriages may also support the present conjecture." (p256)  
HbE frequency distribution of Mongoloid origin communities of Assam
S.No	Population
from Assam	N(Sample size)	HbE 
Frequency	Source
1   	Ahom           	125           	0.304	Balgir 1995
2   	Boro           	131           	0.549	Das et al. 1980
3   	Chutia         	62            	0.3  	Deka et al. 1980
4   	Garo           	135           	0.5  	Das et al. 1980
5   	Karbi          	110           	0.227	Deka et al. 1988
6   	Koch Rajbongshi	164           	0.35 	History of Assam by Edward Albert Gait 1906
Das & Deka 1980
7   	Mishing        	318           	0.403	Sharma and Mahanta 2009
8   	Sonowal        	106           	0.396	Deka et al. 1988
9   	Tiwa           	27            	0.315	Balgir 1995
HbE frequency distribution of Arya-Dravidian origin communities of Assam
S.No	Population
from Assam	N(Sample size)	HbE 
Frequency	Source
1   	Assamese Brahmins	98            	0.051	Deka 1988
2   	Assamese Muslims 	155           	0.158	Ahmed Das 1994
3   	Assamese Sikhs   	107           	0.209	Sharma Mahanta 2013
4   	Kaibarta         	101           	0.133	Deka et al. 1988
5   	Kalita           	104           	0.115	Deka 1988
6   	Sut              	22            	0.023	Balgir 1995
Chaipau (talk) 11:33, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the article. The O2a1‐M95 is already mentioned, and you can check presence of this haplogroup in others.  HbE is just not the right measure here.  Look at the example of the Totos. Chaipau (talk) 08:40, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read up WP:IINFO. Chaipau (talk) 09:01, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

text: Even if HbE is of AA origin the frequencies do not indicate how much of AA is present in a given population.  The example of the Totos is an indicator.  The AA portion of their population could not have increased from less than 10% to more than 40% in 50 years.  If we are to then look for the presence of AA then nearly all populations have shown HbE, including Brahmins and Sikhs of Assam.  So your claim, that the presence of HbE is a "detector" (your coinage, not found in the article) gene, is not just WP:OR, it is also wrong.  Moreover, many linguists and authors have said the Boro-Garo languages have spread due to language shifts, not population replacement. People_of_Assam#cite_note-32. So your claim is also wrong on this count.  Chaipau (talk) 12:45, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  HbE frequencies 

message: https://www.academia.edu/38616517/A_Genomic_study_on_Austro_Asiatic_and_Tibeto_Burman_Speakers_in_Northeast_India_pointing_towards_late_Neolithic_to_Bronze_Age_dispersals_from_South_East_Asia, Though it's independent research, it's useful to understand the past. Logical Man 2000 (talk) 15:13, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Independent research

message: 1. Upper bound for all other groups and lower bound for Tibeto-Burman group isn't neutral point of view. 
2. Assam belongs to Tibeto-Burman zone. Assam is directly connected to Himalayan range. Tibeto-Burman don't have to migrate anywhere. They are already in own land. 2409:4065:D8E:665F:540F:2AF:684E:4F1D (talk) 06:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe this is WP:BE.  I have proactively struck this through. They edited the page  and then reverted the edit . Chaipau (talk) 10:11, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey complain box. Resolve these issues otherwise you'll be blocked. 2409:4065:D83:29BB:D997:D4C:B9A0:9A85 (talk) 12:09, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

text:  That's surely a self-made unsourced diagram. I reverted it because i wanted to discuss about it. 2409:4065:D83:29BB:D997:D4C:B9A0:9A85 (talk) 12:14, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: AFAICS, the diagram is simply a visualization of the prose, which has loads of sources. On the other hand, what are the sources for this statement: ? –Austronesier (talk) 12:59, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

text: For every dot in the diagram there is a source in the text. What are the sources for this statement: ? –Austronesier (talk) 14:55, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  This isn't a diagram of Neutral Point Of View.  Seriously, Now you need source for discussion also. 2409:4065:E93:4B7B:F944:D4C4:A4FB:74E5 (talk) 15:15, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't waste our time. It's all in the article, e.g. the Tibeto-Burman date is based on DeLancey 2012. And so on. BUT: what are the sources for this statement: ? None, right? –Austronesier (talk) 15:20, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

text: Bhaskarvarman also claimed to have descended from Narakasura, a mythical character, some 3000 years before him.  Chaipau (talk) 15:38, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

text: Point 1 is already answered, point 2 is moot, because earlier you said: , and all of a sudden you produce another unsourced and contradictive claim for TB having migrated from outside of Assam at 3k-2k BCE. –Austronesier (talk) 15:40, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

text: I don't think we need to engage in a discussion here with these blocked editors.  Neither are these WP:CIVIL, but they are definitely WP:BE.  I have gotten over my WP:AGF fixation; engaging with them are not at all productive; I have very serious doubts about their . Chaipau (talk) 16:29, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for reminding me this time :) If things get bad in the main page, then PP will be the most handy solution. –Austronesier (talk) 16:35, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

text: Definitely, long unproductive discussions are not useful for anyone. Any claim supported by atleast two modern reliable sources can be included in mainspace. If it has been contradicted by other sources, should be attributed. Older sources and isolated sources can also used through attribution on the ground of author having own wikipedia page.भास्कर् Bhagawati संवाद 19:30, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  FWIW, sources can only be included if they are reliable sources per WP:RS. And no, older sources do not simply become reliable . A detailed WP page is dedicated to Athanasius Kircher, and yet his Oedipus Aegyptiacus is not a reliable source for a proper understanding of Egyptian hieroglyphs. Older sources are reliable if their content is critically reviewed and corroborated by modern scholarly peer-review sources. –Austronesier (talk) 18:26, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

text: I think the above justifies admin action. Austronesier, what is your advice? Richard Keatinge (talk) 12:05, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  these WP:CIVIL and WP:PA issues in the Talk space, though against WP policies, I am ignoring for now. I think with a little push we could get the article ready for an RfC(?) to get the cleanup tag removed.  Chaipau (talk) 13:04, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the cleanup tag. I hope this helps. Richard Keatinge (talk) 18:07, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  indeed it does.  Thanks!  Chaipau (talk) 18:46, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

text: To see  edit warrings between Bhaskar Bhagwati and Chaipau , Just check edit revisions in Varman dynasty. They are most rival editors to push POV in kamarupa kingdom. 2402:3A80:DD2:B5FC:92A4:A278:A484:C34F (talk) 08:54, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

text: That diagram give speculated upper bound for others but lower bound for TBs.  Editor should give speculated upper bound for TBs. I consider that diagram as biased and against TBs of Assam. 2402:3A80:DD2:B5FC:92A4:A278:A484:C34F (talk) 09:01, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If you really care about reliability then remove all the doubtful references from Assamese pages. In fact, Books published under government of Assam are also biased. To know more about biased scholarship in Assam , read Searching for Historiography of Kamarupa by Jae-Eun-Shin. 2402:3A80:DD2:B5FC:92A4:A278:A484:C34F (talk) 09:09, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Migration timeline 

message: The ew IP is most likely a sock of User:Sairg. –Austronesier (talk) 15:48, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  Pinging .  Chaipau (talk) 15:51, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. Shifting IPv6, not worth tracking down or blocking. I semi-protected for two months this time. -- MelanieN (talk) 16:15, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , we might could block this and this. It's not just our disruptor on those ranges, but a few spot checks I did showed nothing but poorly-written and unreferened throwaway edits. Conversely, we can semi-protect the talk page--but what I'd like to see also is a re-assessment of article quality (last done 8 years ago) and a good scrubbing (I just made some copy edits to the lead), because the better an article is the more easily I can justify semi-protecting a talk page. I'm interested in your and other editors' thoughts. Drmies (talk) 20:56, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:   I welcome a call to scrub and polish.  I have been working on the content and welcome all help in improving this article.  Thanks! Chaipau (talk) 02:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

text: Interesting you should suggest that, Drmies. I recently sent an email to a checkuser friend, wondering about rangeblocks, but they haven't gotten back to me yet. I communicated by email because I know you all can't publicly link IPs with user names. I'll send you the same email. We have recently had five IPv5s and one regular IP here that all seem to be singing out of the same choir book. I agree the article is far from high quality, and the same is true of several related articles, but I don't know enough about the subject to contribute constructively. -- MelanieN (talk) 21:34, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

text: Oh, well, never mind - I see you took care of it already. Thanks. -- MelanieN (talk) 21:40, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: MelanieN, not all the Wikipedia emails make it through my university's filter. I've only blocked one IP, the most recent one, basically for dickishness, but I have not placed the rangeblocks. I am perfectly happy being guided by whoever your CU friend is. BTW I have not run CU, but I can have a look at the SPI, if there is one. Drmies (talk) 00:04, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

text: There is so much on these ranges, I don't know what to look for and I don't see anything obvious. I need some backup here--maybe from , , , , , , --all of them have run CU on these ranges... Maybe we should just block half the subcontinent. Drmies (talk) 00:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The SPI is here: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sairg/Archive. The most recent named sock was Logical Man 2000, in May 2020. Since then they seem to have decided to use IPs. By my count five IPv6s and one regular IP. They all have identical geolocation; the regular IP lists a different provider. Should I list them? -- MelanieN (talk) 00:14, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

text: If someone on Jio is being disruptive, you might consider page protection over blocks.  Customers on Jio often bounce around on very wide IP ranges, like a /36 or a /32.  I don't think I'm familiar with that SPI case, though. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:47, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the thoughts, NinjaRobotPirate. But that doesn't seem to be the issue. Geolocation shows the IPv6s as using Reliance and the regular IP as using Bharti Airtel.  -- MelanieN (talk) 03:11, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Reply from the person I emailed: "Range is too active for a range block. Protection is likely your best option." -- MelanieN (talk) 03:47, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd rather not state things in black and white here per BEANS, but whoever you emailed is definitely right even in a categorical sense for this specific disruption. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 04:15, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sock edits 

message: #) Since the article concerns migration of various people into the present day Assam at different times, shouldn't we be including the Tea-Tribes from Chhotanagpur, Khasis, Biharis, Bengalis, Nepalis, Marwaris, etc into the infobox parameter Related ethnic groups? Barring which seems discriminatory especially since the article is about people living in presnt day Assam.
#) The use of the parameter, or rather the Infobox itself (Infobox ethnic group) doesn't seem right either, since we are not talking about a specific ethnic group here, but settlers in a state. All we have right now is a hodgepodge of castes, tribes, communities. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:54, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The infobox is too bloated.  It has no meaning and we should just remove the list from there.  Chaipau (talk) 11:15, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would agree to that. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:07, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the article is not about an ethnic group, we should use certain infobox parameters only with care or not at all. One of them is "related ethnic groups" (I don't like this parameter anyway for various reasons). I agree to remove it from the infobox. –Austronesier (talk) 20:03, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:   Chaipau (talk) 23:33, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Related ethnic groups' parameter in the Infobox

message: Taher, Guha and others of the 20th century shouldn't be used for the population history of the neolithic period. Their claims are based on guesswork or incorrect understanding of the past. Northeast heritage (talk) 02:04, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see any benefit from weeding out authors you don't like.  We will follow the regular RS rules. In most cases, what they have said have been borne out in recent works. Chaipau (talk) 02:24, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Historical linguistic, Genetic data and correct Archaeological dating weren't available to them. In fact, Current version of the population history in Northeast India is based on simplistic phylogenetic data. So, Hazarika made an effort to write population history of NE. Northeast heritage (talk) 03:14, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement

message: As assam is multiethnic state comprising of diverse indigenous culture and languages which were born and developed in the place that spread to entire northeast region post division of northeast era into different states, the priority of languages in the languages box should be given to the indigenous languages rather than languages which came later or not originating from assam or 
northeastern india.জয় আই অসম Metei91 (talk) 16:16, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Placement of ethnic tribes in languages of assam