Talk:Sousveillance

message: One thing I'm sure, is that sousveillance is not mainstream French. It must be some kind of word that some political/philosophical group is trying to push, using Wikipedia as a propaganda tool. David.Monniaux 16:26, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Propaganda

message: to me an act of propaganda is merely a voice of advocacy. the truth is that to communicate, one needs to participate in a media enviroment littered with the remnants of prior advertising. With this, memory has become the subconscious battleground of personhood. (Ok, this is sounding flowery, but it is the way I think and unfortunate to the reader, overinfluenced by that nutty writter named tolstoy). With the introduction of surveillence cameras, the inherent need to watch and control is becoming pervasive and ubiquitous. Storage in digital data will necesitate improved odds on data searching, with the tendency to use all anthropometric data towards commerce. Such trends have to reconsile man's need for order outside the eternal trend towards conflict. How order is achieved is the searching to verify the prior social contracts. That which is natural needs to be described: to have systems overlooking our daily activities is becoming part of an external memory. we are a barcoded constallation of events and actions, monitored and counted by machine. How we function inside the mechanizations of our new recorded parralled selves is the language of this overheated and evaporating social contract. the higher order evolution of ethical conduct, which is formed in adolescence and contributes to the natural stimulation of the pre frontal and frontal cortex of the brain, is being replaced by these mechnizations, and as we become subject to a secure and reasoned surveillence for our own protection, we stop stimulating our frontal cortex and fundamentally change how we function neurologically. so by not countersurveillencing, and maintaining freedom of thought by control of our sensory input, we erode ethically and give up precious responsibity towards a dependent and hopeless acceptence of a digital fate that takes out the moral perogative of being. As Piaget demonstrated the crucial steps of achieving neurologic steps towards an reasoned adulthood, so now steve mann is documenting for future generations how one is to maintain ones architecture of one, that is separate, and can form independent judgements and insights, outside the surveillenced world. when we stop singing together, laughing together, experiencing family and friendship, a loniness exit from frontal lobe functioning is replaced with the eyecandy of the tv trance of surveillence. Societies that are like the extended family, or the small village are natural to being human, and as the class of 1786 at the ecole polytechnique would agree, it is with natural man that we should form future bodies of free persons. not the anonymous of city ants in a hill, but the natural flesh and soul of persons embodied in protective humanistic intelligence empowing devices. Sousavaillence is not self promotion, it is a treatise of human freedom that confronts Humanity's recurrent nightmare of escape from freedom. It is easy to realize Steve Mann's  mathematical invention of the comparametric equations, which is also an invention that describes how cameras work: but how humans percieve in an increasingly surveillenced world is more difficult to describe touching upon social sciences, developmental psychology, neurology, economics, political science, and philosophy. The basis of Sousavaillence has been greatly influenced by Paul Virilio and Sartre: but more importantly, the life long cyborglog is the key to empiric data defining many phenomena described by Foucault. The use of the cyborglog has medical uses: in our research with the elderly, we are developing a system to document activity of daily living in the setting of neurodegenerative illness. All stages of life and state of brain function at each stage needs to be anticipated to complete a life long cyborglog. user:cyborgopoulos...aka stef pantagis 11:40, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Advocacy

message: "Audio sousveillance is allowed in most states, and by Federal law, but audio surveillance is illegal in most states."
Is there any way this sentence, and others scattered throughout the article, might be sort of internationalized in order to adopt a more neutral perspective? Wally 23:56, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Legality

message: I fail to see why this article is flags with a NPOV warning.  Given the rapid changes in video camera technology and public surveillance, the term "sousveillance" certainly seems like a useful distinction.
If the problem is that this term has not entered the mainstream lexicon then edit the article to say so. Funkyj 20:29, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality in Question?

message: I think this article needs heavy, heavy cleanup. (Embarassingly, I added a vote to "keep" earlier, before realizing that the vote was over above, now reverted.) The article is too biased and really needs help.
71.110.157.153 05:51, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: My 2cents too

message: This article seems to vacillate randomly between "inverse surveillance" and "sousveillance" very confusingly. *Are* they the same thing? If so, then just put one in brackets at the start, then use the other one consistently. If not, then make the distinctions clearer. Stevage 12:16, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pick a term and stick with it

message: Clinical sousveillance content has been forked from clinical surveillance and is up for deletion (WP: PROD) under WP:NOR (were WP:FRINGE an actual policy this would be the reason).  If you have anything to say about this, please say it there by June 1. Editing help with the clinical surveillance article is also welcome.  Museumfreak 05:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clinical Sousveillance

message: Interesting that previous commentators keep denouncing an "American" POV, when Steve Mann is a Canadian teaching/researching at the University of Toronto, a Canadian university. Bellagio99 03:54, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Canadian ≠ American

message: I've added some sentences to the article making this point. Bellagio99 03:54, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Camera phone or videocam + YouTube/Flicker = Sousveillance

message: As a random person who stumbled across this page I've done what I can to tidy it, but there are some glaring faults which I don't dare fix myself.
"Even today's personal sousveillance technologies like camera phones and weblogs tend to build a sense of community"
:What's this a contrast with? The future's personal sousveillance technologies?
"Classy's Kitchen"
:Who is Classy? What is his/her kitchen? This appears to be missing a cross-reference.
"Beyond the political or breaching of hierarchical structure explored in academia, the more rapidly emerging discourse on sousveillance within industry is "personal sousveillance", namely the recording of an activity by a participant in the activity. In this sense, the Rodney King video was captured serendipitously by a citizen participating in a civil society. There was no political motive (i.e. the officers who were beating King were not targeted), and the material was captured more serendipitously."
:This is within a section entitled "Personal sousveillance" which has already given a different definition. What's going on here? "In this sense" - in what sense? Is "civil society" an "activity"? The straightforward reading of this is that the Rodney King video was captured by someone participating in the beating: i.e. King or one of the policemen. "More serendipitously" than what? And is it necessary to use "serendipitously" twice in two consecutive sentences? I would redact but the only obvious redaction which leaves something that makes sense is to delete the entire paragraph.
"As the technologies get smaller and easier to use, the capture, recording, and playback of everyday life gets that much easier. For example..."
:The stuff which follows is, as written, more obviously an example of people not liking being recorded than of recording becoming easier.
"The "Sensecam" works this way, as does Gordon Bell's project at Microsoft"
:What is this "Sensecam"? Who is Gordon Bell?
"Microsoft is also exploring cyborglogs"
:"Also" in addition to whom? There is no obvious anaphor, because two paragraphs have passed since the mention of "cyborglogging", but if you ignore those paragraphs then the most obvious anaphor is Gordon Bell's project at Microsoft.
"to subvert the Panoptic gaze"
:Undefined proper noun. At least, I presume from the capitalisation that it's a proper noun.
"Sousveillance activism as a form of inverse surveillance"
:Does any of the contents of this section actually correspond to the section's title? I certainly can't find an answer in it to the implicit question "Is sousveillance activism a form of inverse surveillance?" It seems to be an assortment of examples of unspecified sousveillance, inverse surveillance and inadequately referenced summary of related but tangential academic work.
"However, this designated day focuses only on hierarchical sousveillance, whereas there are a number of groups around the world working on combining the two forms of sousveillance."
:What are these "two forms"? Up to this point at least four subsets of sousveillance have been discussed, but there's been no suggestion that any group of them form a complete classification.
"There is a certain irony in the blind exploring the all seeing eye of the Panopticon."
:Another undefined proper noun. It's also referred to non-existent anaphor, because all we've been told is that these blind poets are "making a cyborglog". In what sense is that "exploring the all seeing eye"?
"the Panoptic God"
:By now the end of this article is starting to look rather NPOV, as though written by someone trying to create acceptance of their neologisms.
Judging by the history most of this page is the work of two authors, so I hope you can take these comments on board as feedback from someone with an external perspective who can't read between the lines as you can. 81.39.195.238 (talk) 00:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Necessary improvements

message: Surely inverse surveillance should redirect to Surveillance#Countersurveillance,_inverse_surveillance,_sousveillance and not to here? Sousveillance, as noted in the article's paragraph six, is a type of inverse surveillance, and it not inverse surveillance itself (think as if tiger redirected to bengal tiger). Anyone mind if I change the current target away from this article? Sousveillance is linked in the main Surveillance article anyway. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU! 15:58, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Inverse redirect

message: The section "Personal sousveillance" feel very POV to me, to the point of Advocacy.  The second paragraph in particular reads like a direct quote.  Who is the "we" be referred to?  And while "we" are at it, it looks to me like the person that wrote that section was trying to quote a scholarly, or semi-scholarly article.  Cite Please?  Overall, look like someone trying to inflate the importance of their own observations of life.  I'm not saying it isn't notable, but it is not detached enough.
--Wolfram.Tungsten (talk) 23:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: It seems like there should be something in here about police and judges using wiretap laws to charge people who make video of them performing their public duties. It's becoming more common to hear in the news, does that make it notable? --W0lfie (talk) 16:52, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiretap laws

message: I just ran across another article documenting the usual response to sousveillance.  It would be good to collect some of these and start a paragraph about it. Wnt (talk) 01:37, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Go 4 it. You're a veteran, so you know the usual cautions about notaiblity, reliable sources, NPOV, etc. Bellagio99 (talk) 03:11, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The usual response

message: Ian Tomlinson - non-participant passing through a protest stand-off - who died following a violent intervention by a specialist police officer. Criminal case against the officer concluded 'not guilty of manslaughter' a few days ago, on grounds of his intentions. Future civil action is likely.
Motorist fined over filmed cyclist abuse
Van driver throws juice bottle at cyclist for “not paying road tax”
Not sure how to wedge these in ... are they sufficiently notable ? Last is just a blog, but "driver was cautioned for assault and charged with driving without due consideration: he received five points on his licence and had to pay a fine" so it should be a matter of public record somewhere.
--195.137.93.171 (talk) 08:58, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable cases in UK ?

message: Boodlepounce has boldly removed this section.  There are no citations and the common theme appears to Boodlepounce to be privacy or lack thereof rather than sousveillance.  In particular, Boodlepounce has read 1984 and We and does not remember anything remotely resembling sousveillance in them.  Boodlepounce points out that without a reliable source stating that sousveillance is a theme in these works, any such list must inevitably constitute /wp;/or\original research by way of synthesis.  Boodlepounce (talk) 12:06, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: In literature

message: I've removed a picture of questionable relevance and low quality being used to illustrate the article. As there are already high-quality photographs in the article, having a poorly drawn sketch seems unnecessary.  Per WP:BURDEN, anyone who wishes to see the picture in the article should establish consensus to do so.  --Jayron32 18:12, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Any image that uses cyan peculiar blue, such as the current child's drawering, employs more than adequate relevance. -Dirtclustit (talk) 09:20, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Relevance of picture

message: The current picture, located at :File:SurSousveillanceStephanieMannAge6.jpg, is of low quality and of little actual value in adding meaning to the article; especially as there are already in existence, and being used, photographs that capture the same concept.  Requesting outside comment from anyone who has never edited this article before regarding the suitability of the picture for the article.  Please comment to remove or keep the if the picture.  Thank you. --Jayron32 23:40, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've embedded the picture at the beginning of this discussion.  I agree with the earlier observation that the burden is on the proponents of this - unusual - picture to establish reasons to include it.  I would also add that any time a picture that has to be explained with two or three sentences and several references, the picture fails in its essential mission to clarify a point.  I'm removing it again until some measure of agreement is achieve here.  Perhaps - as Anna suggests above, a suitable replacement.  JohnInDC (talk) 19:30, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: No one who didn't stumble on Wikipedia's article or link thereto knows what "sousveillance" means, and I had never heard of it before. Wikipedia is known to have a weakness of this editorializing of particular language. The problem isn't that the word does not make sense. The word is fine, but it's a construction that isn't a part of any language.
Therefore, alternatives like the mentioned "inverted surveillance" or somesuch language should be used, while the article itself can introduce how, IF IT IS RELEVANT AND IMPORTANT, these individuals are using this term of "sousveillance," which, I'm sorry to say, sounds confusingly similar to the actual term surveillance.
Otherwise, you're just cloaking this article behind a made up word no one knows to type, in this pointless Wikipedia sponsored effort to reform language.76.105.131.18 (talk) 04:41, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lingual cart before horse 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I think today's sousveillance is improved by the rise in video and streaming platforms like Youtube, Periscope or Twitch. However, the perfect scenario would be to have perfectly neutral platforms with adapted algorithms and no censorships, and this is not the case. For Youtube for example, we know that censorship can be quite random, and who knows if Google have interest not to suggest videos that could be harmful to the government or any existing autority ?
Plus, on a more general scale, sousveillance implies filming our everyday life, and if this data is gathered by internet giants, this could be ultimately be profitable to them, and to governments they treat wwith, insofar it helps them predict and adapt to human behavior.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by HenriLE PAGE TPT (talk • contribs) 19:01, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sousveillance's dependency on video platforms, and why it can be dangerous 

message: This is a terrible article. It suggests the existence of some phenomenon that is not surveillance or is opposed to surveillance. An furthermore it suggests that this phenomenon is a dog whistle in a political sense. In other words, it is a demand to see surveillance in strictly moral terms, it is the "surveillance is evil" of Wikipedia pages. The suggestion is that surveillance is so evil that a new word must be created to show everyone how evil surveillance is. We are supposed to think that sousveillance does not have the moral baggage of surveillance. So this article is pure propaganda. The word "power" appears in the article.
This is more junk that escaped from an art school. It is more of the rhetoric of Call It Sleep https://archive.org/details/call_it_sleep_situ. It is a rhetorical exercise. This is not a subject for a Wikipedia article. Give these art students an inch and they'll take a mile.
I demand this article be deleted immediately. It is filth.
50.202.216.18 (talk) 15:59, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is a horrible article and should be deleted promptly