Talk:Derry GAA

message: The Derry GAA board have never stated that they are responsible for Gaelic Games in County Londonderry but in a county called Derry.  While the two areas are identical from a realistic point of view, the are only defacto responsible for GAA in County Londonderry.  ManfromDelmonte (talk) 23:37, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Except the county called Derry doesn't exist and has never existed. The standing convention is that the county is named Londonderry on wikipedia, and the city Derry, despite that city namebeing of dubious correctness. --Blowdart | talk 23:39, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not question that assumption.  I'm questioning the fact that the Derry GAA board have never stated that they are responsible for GAA in County Londonderry.  However, they are responsible for the GAA in the area which County Londonderry comprimises which leads to a de facto responsibility in this county.  ManfromDelmonte (talk) 23:42, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah I see. I'd wager they say they are responsible for GAA in County Derry, so it's a pedantic but correct claim *grin* --Blowdart | talk 23:44, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly.  You can't say an organisation is responsible for something which they claim they are not.  However, you can say they hold de facto responsibility for GAA in County Londonderry.  Might aswell get this as technically correct as possible as it seems to raise a hell of a lot of discussion. ManfromDelmonte (talk) 23:46, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Are we really going to stoop to this level?  Talking around what Derry GAA does or does not do in County Londonderry?  It should stay the way it was, this is nonsenseical.Traditional unionist (talk) 00:44, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It was nonsensical the way it was.  Derry GAA has never professed as being the body responsible for GAA in County Londonderry.  However, they claim they are responsible for GAA in an area which is exactly the same territory as County Londonderry.  Hence, Derry GAA is the de facto responsible body for GAA in that county.  ManfromDelmonte (talk) 18:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, Derry GAA covers County Londonderry.  There, I just said in five words what you took fifty, nearly enough.  Why use 50 words when 5 will do?Traditional unionist (talk) 16:00, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Because what you have said is technically wrong. ManfromDelmonte (talk) 16:34, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nonsense.  Derry GAA administer GAA in County Londonderry.  What they call County Londonderry is neither here nor there, to say that they administer GAA in County Londonderry is technically, actually and reasonably, entirely correct.Traditional unionist (talk) 17:07, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not true.  While they administer GAA in an area which is the same as County Londonderry, you can't say that they do as they quite clearly claim that they don't.  Plenty of former communist countries had a declared head of state, whereas the Chairman of their communists party was the de facto leader of the country.  According to the Derry GAA website, Derry GAA is "The official site of GAA in County Derry".  You can't therefore say they are responsible for GAA in County Londonderry as they don't accept responsibility for it. ManfromDelmonte (talk) 17:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless and until they declare the boundaries of Co Derry to be different to Co Londonderry, yes you can.  The current working is needlessly confusing to a casual reader, and needless is the only word for you.  You are being needlessly, and in my view wrongly, pedanticTraditional unionist (talk) 18:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The area administered by the Derry County Board is not technically the exact same as the county itself. Due to clubs being mainly based on a parish basis, and some parishes crossing county borders, there are some rare cases of (very small) areas of one county being part of another for GAA purposes. Not sure how that helps the debate though.Derry Boi (talk) 19:08, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well from the sounds of it it is so small it makes no difference, and it is probably replicated 32 times, not taking account of Co Dublin not existing anymore and Tipparary being two counties nowadays.Traditional unionist (talk) 19:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Defacto Londonderry

message: Tell that ben hes a knob and some one change it back to county derry, the gaa is a symbol of nationalisim and represent the nationalist community of co.derry. No term in the gaa refers to excat giographical locations so they can say who they want  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.58.65 (talk) 17:31, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Somebody

message: References to County Londonderry, which has not existed as an administrative division since 1973, are not essential in this article since the area administered by Derry GAA is actually the GAA county, which has only ever been called Derry. Londonderry is not a GAA term and if it is mentioned at all here, it should only be to note that the GAA county and the former administrative county are coterminous. Brocach (talk) 21:05, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The text you added seems unnecessary as that is already explained in the previous sentence that the Derry GAA is the county board. The beginning of the next sentence then just sort of repeats or re-enforces the same idea of the Derry county board. And County Londonderry still exists. It may not be an administrative division any longer, but none of the other counties are either so why should this be singled out? The county still exists as a geographic area and is referenced by postal authorities, government etc. Canterbury Tail talk 22:30, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there have been no objections or other comments I've gone back to the previous status quo for the reasons detailed above. Canterbury Tail talk 11:57, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

text: Anything before I set if back to what was the long term stable version as there are no references or discussion of the items forthcoming? This should be discussed instead of reverted to a version that makes unsupported claims. What other counties does it cover if it doesn't quite cover the same as the county but the surrounding GAA county teams apparently do cover the area of their counties. Not quite sure what other space this one can possibly cover. Canterbury Tail talk 01:36, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Again - the GAA county of Derry is not the same as the "official" county of Londonderry. As is explained in the GAA county article, a GAA county (not just Derry) sometimes reaches across (actual or former) administrative boundaries to take in clubs from neighbouring counties; for example, where a hurling club wouldn't have enough competition in its 'home' county, or where a GAA club, usually parish-based, has exclave territory. When a club from Donegal, Tyrone or Antrim plays in competitions run by the Derry County Board - as has happened - that comes under the jurisdiction of the GAA county of Derry, but the club has never had anything to do with County Londonderry as an official construct. This happens in many, perhaps most, GAA counties, but what makes this one a different case is that, in nearly all other (mainland) cases, the name of the GAA county is identical with that of the (actual or former) administrative division. But there are other exceptions, e.g. the 3x Dublin admin counties all fall within the GAA county of Dublin. There is not and never has been a County Londonderry GAA or a Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown GAA, and I venture to forecast that there never will be. The current text is perfectly adequate. Brocach (talk) 16:40, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

text: But while you're here, CT, as someone interested in the GAA maybe you could improve the article by updating the substantive content about sports? Brocach (talk) 16:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe you could do the same and stop pushing your own political pov on the matter. Your change was reverted about 3 times with you ignoring the fact you should of abided by WP:BRD and reinstating what you believe the article should contain despite the fact it is clearly politically motivated. Where were your proposals for all the other county GAA articles? Where are your references for what is tantamount to personal research in the over-loaded and needless change you forced through without consent. I've reverted it due to this failure of yours. Mabuska (talk) 10:45, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It is regrettable that you should claim to know, and then accuse me of pushing, my "political pov". I am trying to make articles relating to Derry GAA clubs, competitions and structures more accurate for encyclopaedic purposes by referring to the GAA county of Derry rather than the former administrative unit of County Londonderry, which no longer exists in any legal sense, and which never in any case had any connection with the GAA. Brocach (talk) 00:05, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Just to point out - you spent more time populating redundant categories of your own creation when they already fall under :Category:Derry GAA yet ignore making real proper improvements to this article and related ones. I.e. the sub-section I raised below. Mabuska (talk) 23:46, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I support asking for a reference. I've had a look at most, but not all, of the Derry GAA clubs and they all reside physically within County Londonderry. Which are the clubs that it covers that aren't in the county? Canterbury Tail talk 00:45, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that there is any. As far as I see there is nothing that differentiates the GAA county of Derry from County Londonderry other than name. At best what Brocach should work for is a suitable compromise based on actual fact for example we could state instead: " It is responsible for Gaelic games in County Londonderry, which is known as Derry in the GAA". Mabuska (talk) 13:53, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Such a description and clarification is definitely appropriate for the Derry GAA article, but not for the individual club articles that should state where they are (County Londonderry) and that they're part of the Derry GAA (not discuss the naming of the county etc. Canterbury Tail talk 15:16, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. My suggestion was only meant for the lede of this article. Mabuska (talk) 21:54, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: GAA county

message: I have to say that this article is a mess in regards to how it lists things - nowhere is there a coherent manual of style in regards to them. It also teeters on being an example page for list and table styles. Mabuska (talk) 10:50, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Manual of style for lists and tables

message: There is a discussion going on here about naming conventions for GAA articles and categories. It includes a proposal to treat Derry differently from all other GAA counties. Brocach (talk) 13:22, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion elsewhere affecting Derry GAA

message: According to user:Brocach. Please provide sources for the claim that the Derry GAA refers to County Londonderry as Derry. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:05, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Whichever way, it is still in County Londonderry and still in Northern Ireland. I see no issues with mentioning that the Derry GAA calls it County Derry, but you'd need a stronger reference than an address. You'll need some kind of a statement that they call it County Derry, and not that the web admin has put it on the contact us page. We all know that they do refer to it as County Derry, but like all items on Wikipedia if challenged it needs to be backed up with references. Canterbury Tail talk 21:15, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: To be honest , this is  a case of prove the sky isn't blue. Prove they don't call it Derry .  and  Gnevin (talk) 10:02, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I was thinking about it after I wrote it and thought, no that's just me being silly. So ignore the above. Canterbury Tail talk 12:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought the way I put it last year was good enough. Mabuska (talk) 18:37, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Derry GAA says that County Londonderry is Derry

message: I don't have the book but it appears your fudging the reference to avoid saying Londonderry.  Derry was a hotbed of early hurling activity, with the city's St Patrick's club winning the Ulster Senior Hurling Championship in 1902-03; county teams mainly drawn from the city won the 1906 championship by a walkover, and the contested 1909 final. However, soon after Gaelic football become the dominant sort and hurling activity declined (especially in the city) Why say especially in the city sure we are about the city aren't we?  Drawn mainly from the city ? . If you must dance this dance can I suggest  The county was a hotbed ....Gnevin (talk) 16:49, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have the book in front of me, and as per my edit the reference is quite specifically to the city; to St Patrick's, a city club, and then to a Derry team drawn wholly or mainly from the city. Brocach (talk) 16:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Grand so. I've tweaked it a bit to be clearer Gnevin (talk) 16:59, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought it was clear enough, and have made it more so by restoring reference to the particular decline of hurling in Derry city. You seem to suspect my motives here and are changing material on which it seems you don't have any sources at all, never mind better sources than the Corry book. Brocach (talk) 17:11, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Fudging

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