Talk:Paul Thompson (ice hockey, born 1965)

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. Might be a good time to make a RfC of sorts, I can relist it again but RM only has its people. (non-admin closure) QEDK (後 🌸 桜) 15:37, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Paul Thompson (ice hockey coach) →  – See the article's discussion. AaronWikia (talk) 23:10, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  My point was that "Paul Thompson (ice hockey coach)" could easily refer to both, making it too ambiguous to be an article title. "Paul Thompson (ice hockey, born 1906)" and "Paul Thompson (ice hockey, born 1968)" should be the article titles. Joeykai (talk) 21:31, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand your point, however I don't think it will improve anything. This disambiguation by birthdate is now moot based on the information discovered below, see next section. I recommend leaving the article at Paul Thompson (ice hockey coach), or if the community determines to rename it, then Paul Thompson (British ice hockey coach) would certainly be not ambiguous. Flibirigit (talk) 00:44, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: A hatnote pointing to the 1906 Thompson could help avoid any possible confusion. Station1 (talk) 04:09, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

text: *Actually that would be contrary to the naming conventions guideline for ice hockey players which indicates to use date not nationality. -DJSasso (talk) 13:43, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
===Extended discussion===
*I notice that , ,  all prefer birthdate, but none have commented in the section below where the birthdate is ambiguous. Based on the ambiguous birthdate, what do you propose? Flibirigit (talk) 15:18, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

text: *Of the sources listed below I would only trust eliteprospects and hockeydb. The others appear to be fan sites. I believe the two people listed below are two different people. However, I think some of the coaching stats appear to be on the wrong Paul. 1965 appears to be the correct date for this Paul.  -DJSasso (talk) 16:01, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

text: **Since the official site of the Coventry Blaze can hardly be called a "fan site" I don't think the information there should be so easily dismissed. And the IIHF believed him to be born in 1968 as well. I do  believe eliteprospects likely has it correct, but since there is plausible doubt it would be rational to disambiguate by position wouldn't it? 18abruce (talk) 15:39, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *Worldcat.org lists the author of the book Benched: Blazing a Trail Through British Ice Hockey as having been born in 1968: see here. Dekimasuよ! 00:58, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *Didn't notice one was the official team site. Must have been thrown off since it was a wayback link. As mentioned above coach doesn't work because they were both coaches, its one of the reason we don't disambiguate by position in hockey, because often at some point in their lives they are also coaches or played another position for a short while. -DJSasso (talk) 15:31, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm still suggesting Paul Thompson (British ice hockey coach). What are you proposing besides birthdate, since that is ambiguous?  I'm open to other ideas. Flibirigit (talk) 17:23, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I still think birthdate is the way to go. Redirects such as the name you suggest can point to it. Either will show up in the search box so it won't be an issue. There have been enough places suggesting 1968 is correct that I am comfortable that that is the date. -DJSasso (talk) 18:24, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Earlier, you said that you "trust eliteprospects and hockeydb" which say 1965. Personally, I think it's probably 1965, since those sources are more recent, whereas sources that say 1968 are older sites. Having said that, there is still reasonable doubt about his age, and it would be best to find a unique solution other than birthdate for this subject. Flibirigit (talk) 18:35, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: We could also try e-mailing Mr. Thompson directly, and see if he responds with a date :-) Flibirigit (talk) 18:55, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no reason you couldn't do that. -DJSasso (talk) 18:03, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

text: Yes, and then after that people provided more sources to which I am sufficiently convinced. -DJSasso (talk) 18:02, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

text: I'm fine with leaving the birthdate out of the article, and status quo for the time being. Flibirigit (talk) 18:42, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 4 March 2018 

message: *I notice that , ,  all prefer birthdate, but none have commented in the section below where the birthdate is ambiguous. Based on the ambiguous birthdate, what do you propose? Flibirigit (talk) 15:18, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *Of the sources listed below I would only trust eliteprospects and hockeydb. The others appear to be fan sites. I believe the two people listed below are two different people. However, I think some of the coaching stats appear to be on the wrong Paul. 1965 appears to be the correct date for this Paul.  -DJSasso (talk) 16:01, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

text: **Since the official site of the Coventry Blaze can hardly be called a "fan site" I don't think the information there should be so easily dismissed. And the IIHF believed him to be born in 1968 as well. I do  believe eliteprospects likely has it correct, but since there is plausible doubt it would be rational to disambiguate by position wouldn't it? 18abruce (talk) 15:39, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *Worldcat.org lists the author of the book Benched: Blazing a Trail Through British Ice Hockey as having been born in 1968: see here. Dekimasuよ! 00:58, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *Didn't notice one was the official team site. Must have been thrown off since it was a wayback link. As mentioned above coach doesn't work because they were both coaches, its one of the reason we don't disambiguate by position in hockey, because often at some point in their lives they are also coaches or played another position for a short while. -DJSasso (talk) 15:31, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm still suggesting Paul Thompson (British ice hockey coach). What are you proposing besides birthdate, since that is ambiguous?  I'm open to other ideas. Flibirigit (talk) 17:23, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I still think birthdate is the way to go. Redirects such as the name you suggest can point to it. Either will show up in the search box so it won't be an issue. There have been enough places suggesting 1968 is correct that I am comfortable that that is the date. -DJSasso (talk) 18:24, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Earlier, you said that you "trust eliteprospects and hockeydb" which say 1965. Personally, I think it's probably 1965, since those sources are more recent, whereas sources that say 1968 are older sites. Having said that, there is still reasonable doubt about his age, and it would be best to find a unique solution other than birthdate for this subject. Flibirigit (talk) 18:35, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: We could also try e-mailing Mr. Thompson directly, and see if he responds with a date :-) Flibirigit (talk) 18:55, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no reason you couldn't do that. -DJSasso (talk) 18:03, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

text: Yes, and then after that people provided more sources to which I am sufficiently convinced. -DJSasso (talk) 18:02, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

text: I'm fine with leaving the birthdate out of the article, and status quo for the time being. Flibirigit (talk) 18:42, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Extended discussion

message: *Since the extended discussion above ended, the article has been updated with several reliable sources which confirm Thompson's birth as 5 April 1965 in Singapore. I have moved the article to Paul Thompson (ice hockey, born 1965), based on what appears to be the consensus in the previous discussion. Flibirigit (talk) 19:57, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Follow up

message: pointed out that sources at Eliteprospects and Hockeydb list Thompson's birth year as 1965. However, he also discovered that this here lists 1968. I have also discovered that this source also indicates a 1968 birth year. To further confuse you, two of the sources list Singapore as a birthplace, one lists Solihull, England, and the fourth has no birthplace. Cheers! Flibirigit (talk) 00:44, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like the 1965 Thompson and the 1968 Thompson are two different people. Station1 (talk) 04:17, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That's right. The 1968 Thompson was deleted by a PROD as failing WP:GNG and WP:NHOCKEY. I also find it peculiar how the incomplete coaching stats have moved from the 1965 person to the 1968 person. It wasn't like that earlier today. Flibirigit (talk) 04:30, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That is true, very strange. The IHDB 1968 appears to have a different birthplace than the guy with the nearly identical stats at eliteprospects as well.18abruce (talk) 04:40, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe some Wikipedians from England will be able access other resources, or even the book Thompson cowrote.Flibirigit (talk) 05:11, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

text: Elite prospects has two players as well 1968. I think what happened is the coaching stats from the 1965 player accidentally got moved to the 1968 player. The guy at hockeydb is usually quick to fix once pointed out. -DJSasso (talk) 16:05, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

text: Just noticed that the IIHF here (and previous tournaments as well) lists him as being born in 1968.18abruce (talk) 15:49, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Birthdate and birthplace