Talk:Prince Henrik of Denmark

message: The article (as well as Henrik's official biography at kongehuset.dk) claims that Henrik speaks fluent "Chinese". Though Chinese has a unified written language, its various spoken forms/variants/dialects/sublanguages are said to mutually incomprehensible. Does it makes sense to say that somebody speaks Chinese in general, then? –Henning Makholm 04:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly not. I presume it is Mandarin Chinese. --Thathánka Íyotake (talk) 01:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fluent Chinese 

message: Is he still "Count de Laborde de Monpezat" too? Demophon (talk) 14:31, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I cannot see any reason for him to lose any French titles upon gaining Danish ones. Of course, this is assuming that he was Count de Laborde de Monpezat to begin with (see footnote 1). -- Jao (talk) 15:46, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ghehe, you are right, I didn't see the footnote ;-) By-the-way, his children did get the Danish noble title "Count of Monpezat", as I can see on their Wikipedia websites. Is the title also given to Prince Henrik? I can not read Danish. Demophon (talk) 15:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are more up to date than me, I had no idea about the "Count of Monpezat" thing. According to the press release (which was released today) this new title is bestowed upon Frederik and Joachim and their spouses and descendants, in the common Danish variants (greve for male descendants, grevinde for their spouses, and komtesse for female descendants). Henrik's titles are not changed by this. -- Jao (talk) 16:07, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps this is a sign of a to-be-reigning House of Monpezat rather than a sham House of Glücksburg after Margrethe II. Charles 16:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Henrik's French titles are 'personal titles', I assume (since France, is a Republic). GoodDay (talk) 22:04, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

text: The name of the house can't be changed every time there happens to be a queen rather than a king. I find the male-line "Count of Monpezat" nonsense amusing because if Christian has an eldest daughter she'll be queen and her descendants won't be counts of Monpezat. Henrik's self-centeredness can be washed out of the Danish royal family that easily.67.100.203.179 (talk) 17:52, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The reigning house of Denmark is the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.  The House of Laborde de Monpezat does not exist in Denmark. The Princes, their wives and their children have recently been given the Danish additional titles of Count/Countess of Montpezat in honour of Prince Henrik, but the name of the reigning House is not affected.In an era of gender equality it is normal that the House name should not change. The Royal web-site makes the position clear: http://kongehuset.dk/publish.php?dogtag=k_dk_familien Harlay (talk) 19:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That may be how you translate the Danish version of the website, but the English version says nothing about the future name of the dynasty beyond Queen Margrethe II: all it does is confirm that the present Royal Family "descends" from the House of Glucksborg (just as the House of Glucksborg "descends" from the House of Oldenburg). Following Margrethe II a new situation occurrs: the male-line of Oldenburg will no longer reign in Denmark. Nothing has been stated officially about the name of the dynasty that will accede when Margrethe ceases to reign. The fact that she is considered a "Glucksborg" is simply traditional: in Europe, an heiress to a throne has always been considered to reign as a member of her father's dynasty. But when her child or descendant succeeds to the throne, sometimes the dynasty becomes known by the father's surname (e.g. Vasa {Poland}), Bourbon (Navarre), Tudor, Stuart, Hanover and Saxe-Coburg {Britain}, Bourbon {Spain}); sometimes the dynasty keeps the name of the maternal line (Romanov (Russia), Nassau (Netherlands), Grimaldi (Monaco); sometimes a combination is used (Habsburg-Lorraine (Austria); Austria-Este (Modena). Until an official declaration is issued, we don't know to what dynasty Denmark's next monarch will belong. Horledi (talk) 18:35, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Count de Laborde de Monpezat

message: it may be useful to indicate in this article that the Laborde family has never belonged to French nobility under any governements, and, as such, cannot claim any title from this country (with no offense to the Danish royal family) : Henri's father was no count, neither was the Prince Consort before his marriage. if such title exists today, it is a Danish one as it was conferred by the Queen to both of her sons. CMP  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.168.9.147 (talk) 12:04, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you read the Count controversy section? -- Jao (talk) 13:20, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: ok so maybe the title should not be mentionned before his father's name, as well as in the "titles" section of Prince Henrik ? I understand that he used to be known under the count title for a while (1934-1967) but that's no justification of his rights. French translation of this article has the same problem.  CMP  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.168.9.147 (talk) 13:16, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Validity of the "Count de Laborde de Monpezat" title

message: Why is the source for the Vatican's agreement to his conversion marked as dubious?  It looks OK to me.  Nutiketaiel (talk) 17:34, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The claim that Vatican agreed to his conversion was marked as dubious by another user. I inserted the source and I too can't understand how Vatican allowed someone to cease practicing Roman Catholicism? Surtsicna (talk) 20:19, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I find it odd as well, but stranger things have happened, and we have a suitable source for it now.  Shouldn't the dubious tag be removed?  Nutiketaiel (talk) 16:43, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If you think that it should be removed, go ahead. If I remove it, one could say that I did it because I inserted the source :) Surtsicna (talk) 17:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed it.  The source you added seems to be perfectly adequate.  Nutiketaiel (talk) 17:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. First, Wikipedia's Verifiability rule requires "exceptional" not merely "adequate" substantiation for in-credible or virtually unprecedented assertions: the Pope's consent that a Roman Catholic should abandon his faith in order to take up another is an extraordinary -- perhaps (except under duress) altogether unheard of -- event (whereas marriages between Catholics and non-Catholic royalty have been well-documented, and in none has permission ever been granted to the Catholic to abandon the faith -- indeed, in some cases (Princess Anne of Bourbon-Parma, Princess Giovanna of Savoy) the Pope refused permission for any of the future children to be raised as non-Catholic -- including the heir to Orthodox thrones -- let alone conversion to Orthodoxy of the already-Catholic fiancée. Multiple reliable sources would be needed to justify inclusion of this claim, especially in a WP:BLP article. Secondly, the source does not say that the Pope approved Henri's conversion to Protestantism, rather it says that the Vatican "gave its consent for him to settle his personal religious situation". That could mean no more than that he managed to obtain a letter from a Vatican prelate recognising that, as a free citizen of a European nation, he had the right to take up membership in any church of his choice. The wording is insufficient to justify an allegation of Catholic authorization for his conversion from Catholicism. Therefore, I am restoring the dubious tag. Horledi (talk) 16:35, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah.  Well, that seems reasonable.  OK then.  Nutiketaiel (talk) 19:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

text: I removed the tag since the specific statement present in the article (as of today) does not appear in doubt. What the pope, the Vatican or the catholic church think of it all is perhaps more dubious but the text does not mention it one way or the other. GL (talk) 10:19, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: I am not sure how having an ancestry chart will help readers understand that the Prince's family was not titled. Mere names would not do it, because anyone can, at any time, add the word "Count" to their names or remove it. Besides, the text of the article refers to his father as count. The chart, therefore, doesn't help solve the case. There must be more efficient ways to prove that his family wasn't noble - such as a simple sentence with a reference. The chart is utterly useless, as nobody would be interested in the name of his maternal grandfather's paternal grandmother. Wikipedia is not a directory of genealogical entries. Surtsicna (talk) 23:24, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't agree. While it's true that anyone can vandalize anything in Wikipedia, the chart correctly shows that Henrik's ancestors aren't identified as counts, and it's up to Wikipedians to keep it accurate -- I'll help. No one's arguing that the family tree proves the Labordes were untitled, merely that it helps illustrate that fact. Precisely because other aspects of the article remain ambiguous (since Henrik used the title of comte with his name prior to marriage, Wiki rules don't permit us to retroactively deprive him of it merely because we now know the usage was both legally & socially unjustified), it's important to keep in information which adds context. Since the article acknowledges that the family nearly became noble, and that they repeatedly changed their surname to appear noble, I consider that the family tree helps illustrate that those efforts weren't altogether effective (of course, they were effective with respect to the Danish court since, as the article notes, Margrethe's cousin lost his succession rights for marrying a commoner after Margrethe married comte Henrik. All the more reason for this encyclopedia to shine light on the truth). As for excess genealogy, there's an argument that any at all is too much, so it's a judgment call. Some will, I think, be interested in seeing a few generations of the paternity of future King Frederik X, although that's not the primary reason for inclusion. FactStraight (talk) 01:41, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancestry 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This needs to be rectified, possibly on the basis of the many obits published today.--Ipigott (talk) 09:52, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: One obituary is in the New York Times dated 14 February. EdJohnston (talk) 16:15, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Lack of in-line citations

message: The navigational box at the end of the article with the headline Danish royalty shows vacant for Henrik's succeeding consort. Correct me if I am mistaken, but there is nothing vacant about the succession, or is this a matter of WP:CRYSTALBALL? At the moment, there is no successor, as in none, and perhaps some day there will be a successor, in case Denmark is not turned into a republic, the crown prince does not abdicate or other unforeseen events take place. Any comments? Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 00:31, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: "Vacant" does not mean that there will not be a successor. It means that the position is without an incumbent. Surtsicna (talk) 09:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, yes, that is what the word vacant means. What I am trying to say is, that the position does not exist, so it can't be vacant. The navigational box tries to describe a situation that has not materialised in real life. If it is possible to verify that there will be a successor, then of course the position is vacant (as in "we are waiting for the successor, which we know will come"), but royal successors are not elected or hired, so we can't know for sure what the future brings. Any inputs? Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 11:29, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Margrethe II has an heir apparent, Frederik. He has a wife, Mary. Mary is the likely successor. Surtsicna (talk) 11:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, if likely works, then fine with me. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 11:37, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

text: It could say None. There's no 100% certainty, that Henrik will be followed by his daughter-in-law as Danish consort. GoodDay (talk) 00:18, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no 100% certainty that humans will exist in 2019. Surtsicna (talk) 07:39, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You are not wrong, but your answer does not refute the argument given. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 10:17, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no argument there. The succession box does not say that Henrik will be followed by Mary. It simply says that the position is now vacant. The position still exists, as the monarchy has not been abolished, but it is vacant. What are we even arguing here? (And for what it's worth, Mary's title basically means she is meant to fill that position one day.) Surtsicna (talk) 11:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The position only exists when there is someone to occupy it. Some events has to occure before the person likely to occupy the position is going to occupy it. It is not possible, according to Wikipedia standards, to verify that there will be a person to actually occupy the position. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 14:10, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

text: Danish royalty ranks above the law. They can pretty much do what they want, but have to behave and keep on terms with the Danish people to avoid being abolished. It's a walk on the edge of a knife so to speak. There are fractions within the Danish parliament that wants to abolish the monarchy, but the royal family has been very popular for quite some time now. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 14:03, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The Danish royalty are not above the law. Denmark's is a constitutional monarchy. GoodDay (talk) 14:57, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The Danish Constitution, Chapter III, §13: "Kongen er ansvarsfri; hans person er fredhellig" - "The King is without liability; his person is sacrosanct". (fredhellig). It means the Danish king/queen (and their blood) can't be taken to court, hence the Danish king/queen is above the law. Danish constitutional monarchy means the king/queen does not have any political power. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 15:30, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds like the usual sovereign immunity given to heads of state. It doesn't mean his entire family can run around lawless. Celia Homeford (talk) 15:47, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: They can within the Kingdom of Denmark. Sovereign immunity is international law and given to heads of state when abroad. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 15:57, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Found an article on this: What if (Crown Prince) Frederik committed murder? (in Danish) (Google Translate). The king/queen judges and punishes the royal family for anything that otherwise could have ended up in court. Until now it has not been necessary. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 16:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

text: By that logic, we should not have the consort succession boxes at all. Surtsicna (talk) 11:29, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is that? None is an option according to the template syntax. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 14:03, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

text: Where do you get the idea that the succession box only makes sense when there are actual positions, as you define them? I have yet to find Wikipedia policies on this. Perhaps you can show me where to look? Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 11:54, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

text: Why does your post say 15:11, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, that is because I typed it in according to local time. There might be a template somewhere to fix a missing signature, but I have no clue where to look. You may fix it if you know how to. Cheers, Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 15:04, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Succeeding consort 

message: Prince Consort in Denmark is a title given by the monarch to the spouse. Margrethe II of Denmark and Henrik were married 1967, Henrik was awarded the title Prince Consort () in 2005, a title Henrik did not use. The title was changed in 2016 to Prince. I am trying to find some reliable sources on this. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 13:05, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: In this article (first video) Henrik explains (in English) his frustrations concerning the missing "position" of a Prince Consort (or a King Consort as he calls it). Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 13:23, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: As I understood it, Henrik wanted the title King-consort & sulked when he didn't get it. GoodDay (talk) 15:00, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. I stroke through my initial text, since the video is from 2016, hence after he renounced the Prince Consort title. Henrik was increasingly frustrated about his title since 2002, when the Crown Prince was stand-in (in lack of a better word) for the queen when see was ill. It was then he began openly commenting on the unequality of his position and demanded a corresponding title. He was then awarded Prince Consort in 2005, which did not catch his fancy, and he never used the title. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 15:12, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prince Consort 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure)  ❯❯❯ Raydann(Talk) 14:16, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 24 January 2023 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved to Prince Henrik of Denmark. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks 19:16, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Henrik, Prince Consort of Denmark →  – Per WP:COMMONNAME, a successful requested move (RM) on Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, WP:CONSORTS, previous move discussions for Henri(k)’s article, and WP:CONSISTENT, I request that the article title for the late husband of Denmark’s beloved Queen Margrethe II be changed. (Coincidentally, Margrethe II is Albert’s great-great granddaughter!) A detailed explanation follows.
1. WP:COMMONNAME - When comparing Google search results, “Henri de Laborde de Monpezat” appears to be the most popular way to refer to the individual in question:
*1: “Henri de Laborde de Monpezat” yields approximately 24,000 hits,
*2: “Henrik Prince Consort of Denmark” yields approximately 13,700 hits (i.e. 43 percent fewer than “Henri de Laborde de Monpezat”), and
*3: “Henrik, Prince Consort of Denmark” yields approximately 13,600 hits (i.e. 43 percent fewer than “Henri de Laborde de Monpezat”)
Additionally, when using Google Ngram to gauge popularity of terms pre-2020, it should be noted that while “Henri de Laborde de Monpezat” does generate some results, there are no results whatsoever to be found for “Henrik Prince Consort of Denmark”, even disregarding case sensitivity.
2. Page move for Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha - I will concede that “Henrik Prince Consort” better aligns with WP:CONCISE and is a more popular term according to Google search results, as approximately 28,000 hits are yielded. However, this alternative title simultaneously fails WP:PRECISION. Namely, who was Henri(k) a prince consort to? Also, where was Henri(k) a prince consort of?
More pertinently to this bullet point, the cited RM illustrates that the Wikipedia community is willing to reject the format (name), Prince Consort for an article title if sufficient evidence is shown that an alternative title is more commonly used. And the accepted new title for Albert was in the spirit of...
3. WP:CONSORTS - When it comes to deceased spouses of monarchs, Wikipedia articles tend to follow this naming guidance from WP:NCROY: . In Henri(k)’s case, he was a member of the House of (Laborde de) Monpezat, a French noble family, by birth. Consequently, Henri de Laborde de Monpezat (de instead of of is used because the French preposition is almost always utilized to describe Henri(k)’s birth name) is more consistent with the general naming guidance for a person like him. And finally,...
4. Previous move discussions for Henri(k)’s article and WP:CONSISTENT - On not one, but two occasions, unsuccessful attempts for this article title be renamed to a variant of Prince Henrik of Denmark happened. In both discussions, commenters noted that because one of Henri(k) and Margrethe’s grandsons was known as Prince Henrik of Denmark for most of his life, this proposed alternative was an insufficient disambiguator for the consort (and a failure to adhere to WP:PRECISION).
Furthermore, while a title like Prince Henrik of Denmark may seem superficially consistent with other English Wikipedia article titles, this is actually not the case. This becomes even more apparent when analyzing the titles of three male consorts in modern European history:
*Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (consort of Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom, as already alluded to)
*Prince Bernhard of Lippe-Biesterfeld (consort of Juliana of the Netherlands)
*Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma (consort of Charlotte, Grand Duchess of Luxembourg)
In all three cases, while the structure Prince (name) of (house) is present, all three of these men were princes by birth (albeit not of the realm their spouses reigned over). In contrast, not only was Henri(k) not Danish by birth, but he is not even a prince by blood. By moving this article to Prince Henrik of Denmark, readers, especially those who seek consistency, may consequently be misled into believing that Margrethe II’s husband was a royal for his entire life, which is not what Wikipedia should be striving to do in general.
Therefore, a move to Henri de Laborde de Monpezat should swiftly occur in the coming days. However, as always, the consensus that emerges from such a discussion will eventually win. Hurricane Andrew (444) 18:43, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

text: Strong Support per nom, the policies cited by nom and my comments in the last RM. I strongly prefer the proposed title. The proposed title is more common as demonstrated by the nominator (yes, put together the two results inlcuding "Prince Consort" are more common than his birth name, but there's almost certainly overlap between the two"). Even if the article is not moved to the proposed title, it should almost certainly be moved to Prince Henrik of Denmark, as that was his title for far longer than "Prince Consort". The arguments for his birth name are far stronger than those for the latter, and as nom pointed out "Prince Henrik of Denmark" could be construed to imply he was a Danish prince from birth. Of course that title was rejected in January (in an RM I proposed, for full disclosure) estar8806 (talk) ★ 20:26, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

text: Oppose - in the english language, he's best known as Henrik. GoodDay (talk) 22:34, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

text: Comment NCROY lists him as an example for keeping the current name. Sometimes a person may remain best known by the title they held as consort, as in Henrik, Prince Consort of Denmark. I'd also like to note that unlike the three male consorts you listed as examples, Henrik wasn't born into royalty so he's more comparable to Prince Claus of the Netherlands rather than Prince Bernhard. Enough time has passed since his death for a common name to form but I'd like @Surtsicna input on this one. Also, I can't help but notice that male consorts usually keep the prestigious princely prefix in the titles while it's left out for women.  Killuminator (talk) 23:16, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That explicit mention was only established after the move of Albert, Prince Consort (see this ). estar8806 (talk) ★ 22:46, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 26 August 2023