Talk:Princess Mononoke/Archive 1

message: Maybe an awards section here?
: I took care of that. Federico Pistono 10:25, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awards 

message: An Anon added to the article that Miramax hired translators for the subtitles on the DVD. This doesn't hold up, as the UK DVD at least clearly just has subtitles based on the English re-dub and not independently translated, and all I've heard indicates that the Region 1 DVD is the same. elvenscout742 01:32, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent comments wa... 

message: :"...others criticized the dub for most of its casting choices, ..., claiming that they from the experience."
There's a verb missing from this sentence. Detracted? Distracted?
—wwoods 20:04, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dub criticism 

message: Right now, as of this moment, I am watching Princess Mononoke on Toonami, shown with a TV-14V rating.  I believe this is one of the first of its programming shown on Toonami with a rating higher than TV-Y7... actually, Naruto was the first with TV-PG. --Geopgeop 06:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Was it aired unedited? That's surprising! --echelon talk 02:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It was for a special month long event that they had. Every Saturday night for one month, Toonami would show one of four Miyazaki movies. The other movies were Spirited Away, Castle in the Sky, and Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. -- PinkDeoxys 16:36, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was indeed unedited, because Miyazaki will not allow his films to be presented edited. Cybertooth85 07:48, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toonami 

message: When was it ever said that Eboshi used to be a prostitute? Finite 15:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eboshi...a prostitute? 

message: I think not! While she calls Ashitaka her brother, this is merely honorific. She may in fact be in love with Ashitaka.   (see footnote 3) --echelon talk 23:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kaya is Ashitaka's Sister? 

message: I saw the evidence that according to this week's TV book, Turner Classic Movies is re-airing the English version of Princess Mononoke at 2 a.m. on May 13th. It's two hours after May 12th. Claire Danes is the English voice of San. 68.73.1.149 21:16, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has already aired on television several times, one more showing is not that notable. Finite 21:56, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  English version on Turner Classic Movies at 2 a.m. on May 13th 

message: Added in that San tries to set Yakul free, but he refused to go, and then condensed the portion regarding Shishigami. 159.37.7.254 18:50, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  In the Forest 

message: I'm removing the line from San's description that says her parents had "no possible means of escape". This isn't verified either way in the film - Moro only says that they threw the baby in her path. The line is arbitrary. BethEnd 15:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  minor edit 

message: I have heard that "Mononoke" and "Nausicaa" are in the same - or very similar - universes, but in different time periods.  I haven't ever found anything to back this up, and I suspect it may be caused by misunderstanding the "13 years since Nausicaa" statement that appears in the Japanese trailer for Mononoke..  Anyone know any different?
Johnmc 05:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably just a misunderstanding. "Mononoke" is generally thought to be the spirtual succesor to "Nausicaa" with certain parallels of plot, character and theme. There is no sign of them existing in the same universe however. Finite 14:54, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Same universe as "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind"? 

message: It's NOT Mononoke-Hime (モノノケ 姫), it's Purinsessu Mononoke (プリセス モノノケ). The reason is, most stories, cartoons, comics, and computer and video games in Japan, from now on have Japanese words that are almost similar to English words as you translate them. --PJ Pete
:In the movie it appears as もののけ姫. Kokoro9 15:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: From the looks of things, プリンセス・モノノケ and もののけ姫 are equally acceptable, but as Kokoro9 says, もののけ姫 appears in the movie. --Curtmack 20:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with Kokoro9. The alt-angle storyboards on the DVD show もののけ姫 on the first splash; plus it's on the official website, ghibli.jp. --h2g2bob (talk) 00:49, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese title 

message: The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
*Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
*See if possible if there is a free use image that can go on the top right corner of this article.[?]
*Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called ==The Biography==, it should be changed to ==Biography==.[?]
*Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.[?]
*Generally, trivia sections are looked down upon; please either remove the trivia section or incorporate any important facts into the rest of the article.[?]
*Please reorder/rename the last few sections to follow guidelines at Wikipedia:Guide to layout.[?]
*Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.[?]
*There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
**is considered
**might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[?] 
*Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: armor (A) (British: armour), neighbor (A) (British: neighbour), defence (B) (American: defense), realize (A) (British: realise), criticize (A) (British: criticise), any more (B) (American: anymore).
*Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
**Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant -  “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
**Avoid misplaced formality: “in order to/for” (-> to/for), “thereupon”, “notwithstanding”, etc.
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Malkinann 02:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Automated Peer Review 

message: I've made a number of edits recently. As it adds up to quite a bit, I'll list it here:
* Started "Production" section for how they made it, etc.
* Made images default size (so it just takes it from the user preferences)
* Merged "Differences between the English and Japanese versions" and "English translations" into "Translations", as they cover essentially the same stuff. (mainly just re-ordering)
* Reduced trivia as much as possible. The other 2 points still need to be worked into the article somehow. Created "References in popular culture" to fob most of that into.
* Split CD track listing into 2 columns
Comments welcome. --h2g2bob (talk) 00:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One final thought - this really needs a "critical reception" section" to collect all the reviews, and the peer review is right, the lead does need to be re-written. --h2g2bob (talk) 01:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits 

message: I've also suggested the CD is split. There should eb enough to say that it can have its own article, though the music is a key part of the film so I'm not really sure what to do. --h2g2bob (talk) 00:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split CD 

message: :Image:Cover mononoke-1-.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 21:16, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done--Svetovid 10:51, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Cover mononoke-1-.gif 

message: :Image:Princesssan.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:38, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done--Svetovid 10:51, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Princesssan.JPG 

message: I disagree that this entry is too long. In fact, I say that it's one of the most comprehensive, readable and delightfully opinionated Wikipedia articles I've read. Articles should be written from the point of view of the genuises who created them, and this Wikipedia entry clearly celebrates the author/artist/creator/director's timeless vision. 
Having recently seen the DVD with both subtitles and with the english voice-overs, I can't help but feel that this Wikipedia entry has the "look and feel" of something written, or translated, by it's creator, or someone who knows him very well. 
I would encourage wanna-be editors on this entry to at least see the movie first before you start adding your criticism of the writing of this Wikipedia entry. This meaty, re-telling of the tale is not only short and sweet but also concise and compelling. The character descriptions are robust, without giving away the "secrets" of this must-see, compelling film. 
A section needs to be added about the English voice-overs that were done for the American release. This information can be found on the companion DVD that came with the film I rented here in Taiwan. 
These are my humble suggestions for the improvement of this article. 
Torch Pratt  --Torchpratt 10:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too long? 

message: In the article is currenlty says - "In the subtitled edition, Shishigami is referred to as the "Deer God", rather than the "Forest Spirit" in the English dub. " I just watched it with the subtitles on it said forest spirit numerous times it didn't say Deer god? Is this only the subtitles on while watching it in Japanese. I was watching English with english subtitles on. --Fujita 18:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deer god Vs Forest Spirit Dub 

message: Throughout the film, I noticed there was a significant amount of sexism when and after Ashitaka arrives at Tataraba (feminism, in this case). Is it a joke? A running gag, perhaps? Or was it included to make a point? Is there any source which looks at this particular part of the story? Or...dialogue, I suppose, since it's not particularly involved in the plot. Octane [improve me]  04.10.07 1003 (UTC)
:I believe that it was intended to make a point. Japan was (and still is) a very male dominated society. Having a settlement not only headed by a woman (Lady Eboshi) but also effectively run by women (the dialogue when Ashitaka shows up with the rescued men is a good example), highlights this. In addition, the women are doing hard physical labour (running those blast furnaces 24 hours a day must be hard work) only emphasises this.
:Ashitaka is a prince so theoretically he should be part of the patriarchal dominance, but under the command "See with eyes unclouded", he doesn't pass judgement on the town automatically. He does see fault with what the town is doing to the forest, but that's incidental to how the town is run. Oni no Akuma (talk) 10:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My response to this is that Hayao Miyazaki generally has a very feminist agenda. Most of the protagonists in his movies are strong girls. And according to Susan Napier's article, with this film he seeks to subvert or augment his audience's ideas of what a jidaigeki should be. Although the notion that a medieval Japanese community could have been run by a women is "clearly fictional," he includes this aspect in the film to "subvert the conventional notion of the traditional female role" and to "problematize facile stereotyping of technology, armaments, and industrialized culture as evil"... and to make the movie more interesting. It's a pretty good article if you're interested; it's in the article under "Further reading." Brutannica (talk) 21:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's the point of all the sexism? 

message: I just fixed a small problem I found with the article, the fact that the description under the picture of Ashitaka firing an arrow with the "demon-worms" on his arm was slightly too long and ran over. I would appreciate attention being given to this small detail, because while it hardly changed the content, the small overrun from the sentence cause part of a word to be made into a new line, and since that section has very little text, the picture was longer than the paragraph it was next to. This cause the section right below it, Setting, to have a misplaced title, since the paragraph under Setting wasn't inhibited by that picture, but the title was moved towards the right-hand side of the screen at least a few centimeters if not a few inches. All I'm asking is that the caption remain small, fitting into the number of lines it takes up now, or a few more lines be added to the Production paragraph to allow the Setting section's title not to be skewed again. This makes the article cleaner and easier to read, I believe. Anyways, thanks Ziggaway (talk) 22:59, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Production Picture comment 

message: The translation section appears to be one-sided, to me.  The dub versus sub only mentions a few changes that were done to explain cultural differences, however there are also several changes made for the dub that change the meaning of scenes.  Shouldn't this also be mentioned? 
Also, the article really needs some over all clean up to bring it inline with the film MOS.  The reaction section changed to be a real prose section, not just a table with some review ratings from several anime sites. MPAA ratings and the like have no place in the article at all, per the Film MOS, and many sections need citations or references fixed. Thoughts?  I'm willing to start the effort, if others agree its needed. AnmaFinotera (talk) 22:46, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will volunteer. I'll start working on it sometime this week. Brutannica (talk) 21:33, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translations and Clean Up 

message: Ashita means tomorrow and ka is a spoken question mark.  So, I think that the meaning of Ashitaka's name should be listed as Tomorrow?.  I realize that this could be a problem, seeing as it could be qualified as original research, and it kinda is.  But it would be helpful if someone could give me some imput.  Thanks.  70.177.115.38 (talk) 02:59, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Its original research and unnecessary to add unless verifiable sources refer to it as having some special meaning to the series. AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:10, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

text: It also depends on the kanji used. Ashita (tomorrow) is 明日 while Ashitaka's name is written: アシタカ from his more formal name Ashitakahiko, where Ashi is Leg, Taka is High  and Hiko is a word used for men's name in ancient Japan. Oni no Akuma (talk) 13:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Well it doesn't even matter, since names aren't translated. Moocows rule 21:57, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of Ashitaka's Name 

message: should we add that Kiba a chareter from Naruto has
similar facial markings as San?
24.205.242.48 (talk) 00:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No. AnmaFinotera (talk) 01:16, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Why? It's not pertinent to either article. --Farix (Talk) 01:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

text: No. Not only may it be trivia, but it may be original research. This information has no bearing on any important aspects of this article. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 02:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This has little relevance to the movie but why does it say "To Exist" "生きろ" (Ikiro) on the movie poster? Does anyone know? Does it have anything to do with the human-nature interactions within the movie? Just wondering... Moocowsrule (talk) 22:51, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nevermind, I saw the tagline part. Moocowsrule (talk) 22:57, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  should we add this to trivia 

message: >the land becomes green again and Ashitaka's curse is finally lifted.
There green or either Ashitaka's curse are not perfectly cured ,and that is an important concept of this movie.But I know the meaning had little changed in English vergion,and I dont have seen English vergion.
So please someone correct it.Volclex (talk) 15:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually the land does become entirely green again. It's unclear if Ashitaka's curse is cured or not, but it certainly has faded. I personally believe it is cured, and what we see is just a scar, but it's ambiguous (in Japanese as well as English). Brutannica (talk) 01:14, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I just finished watching the movie again, and I was wondering if anyone considered the Forest Spirit to be dead?  It seems to have healed everything (Ashitaka's condition is ambiguous to me), but it 'exploded' on top of Irontown before healing everything. Facebookery (talk) 04:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is starting to look forum-like talk, so let's keep it short. I think by saying the Forest Spirit can't die, they mean a «spirit» cannot die. But his body, his corporal being, exploded and vanished since sun has risen. Forest Spirit should have taken back his day-form, but I guess he got his head back too late, when sun was alredy there.
64.228.76.240 (talk) 10:47, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot 

message: Is this the longest animated feature? If so, it should be noted. Alone Coder (talk) 17:49, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A Tree of Palme seems to be a bit longer - 136 min. Alone Coder (talk) 18:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Longest animated feature 

message: There is a live performance of Mononoke Hime on stage at Yakushima. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 01:54, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yakushima 

message: "Whether she herself was a prostitute or if she got married to a Japanese pirate." is a fragment. I don't know which way would be best to fix it; adding it to the sentence before it or after it? Either way, it might cause a run-on. Please fix what I cannot. 69.29.99.14 (talk) 02:53, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This isn't the only example, like in the Jigo part: In the end it turns out that this character had all of those qualities and then some. ??? ... there are other lines that should be checked by a native speaker who is familiar with the material. -- 134.102.101.64 (talk) 19:34, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eboshi 

message: In Vietnam the film was translated in to "The Revenging Princess". Some Vietnamese people suggest that "mononoke" means "revenge" in this situation. What do you think ? 137.132.3.6 (talk) 18:36, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A  is a Japanese ghost. It doesn't means "Revenging" or "revenge", but it means "vengeful ghost" or "vengeful spirit". moocowsruletalk to moo 01:54, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: But that would be incorrect, as Princess Mononoke's name is written in hiragana (like this: ) and is the name of a person, not the name of a thing. moocowsruletalk to moo 01:56, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mononoke 

message: its been my plan to do some major work on this article for a while. So I shall make a to-do list of what needs to be done and get to work in the following few days. Any help would be appreciated. 
*Find more references to fix citation problems
*Trim down plot and character info
*Expand and refine setting ,production and reception section
:*need to find some resources about production and setting
*get rid of bullets points listing awards (either tabulate or make into paragraph)
If anyone else has suggestion please add them. Hopefully we can turn this into a good article. 
Ziphon (ALLears) 11:30, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revamp 

message: As an editor has requested I explain the tags left on the article here, here you go:
* It needs additional references or sources for verification. Tagged since June 2009.
* It may contain original research or unverifiable claims. Tagged since June 2009.
** There are quite a few unreferenced statements and non-reliable references being used to try to support claims. The "Release" section makes several claims of cause-effect, with its only source being a fansite - classic OR.
* It is in a list format that may be better presented using prose. Tagged since June 2009.
** Removed as it inadequately addressees the awards list, which is long enough to need to be done in an awards table format rather than a list like that.
* Its tone or style may not be appropriate for Wikipedia. Tagged since June 2009.
** The article is not written in the formal tone preferred for Wikipedia articles, with several instances of exaggeration and weaseling wording throughout.
* It may require general cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Tagged since June 2009.
** The article is badly structured and should be cleaned up to better follow WP:MOSFILMS and WP:MOS-AM as well as the general WP:MOS. The sections need some rearranging, the awards list needs reformatting, though better than before the plot is still too long, the article is not properly italicizing journal and media work titles, and the soundtrack section lacks a lead out to its parent article. 
The article also shows a heavy American bias and is overly American-centric, which likely explains the in-article tag in the "Translations" section. This is particularly notable in the Reception section which is purely American focused. I hope this helps explain the tags adequately. If there are further questions, ask. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Clean up Tags 

message: On the picture of movie title next to the girl with blood on her mouth theres some sort of wolf with japanese kana 生きろ which is senkiro.This makes no sense to me in japanese.i just thought this called be added somewhere as maybe trivia in this article.Ive never seen this movie so it could be obvisous.--Chaos2501 (talk) 23:17, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is trivia and not particularly relevant. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 23:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  picture 

message: The subsection "Translations" mentions that "there are no terms for words like Shishigami in English". It would be great if somebody could elaborate on that word a bit. I failed to find any information about "Shishigami", that is not related either to Mononoke or to "Bang Shishigami", another anime character.
134.155.176.21 (talk) 01:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translations 

message: I just watched a recording from free-TV and the movie did not get anywhere close to the 134 minutes stated in the factsheet. Including the credits it was around 131 min but still had some one-spot commercial breaks (maybe 2-3 min total). Are there different versions? 139.18.183.181 (talk) 22:23, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: See here. 134 min according to IMDb AgadaUrbanit (talk) 22:28, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

text: It's probably because the TV version was edited for time/content. The DVD itself lists the runtime as 134 minutes, so that's the figure we go with. —Farix (t | c) 23:48, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Running time 

message: original is shishigami N88282 (talk) 19:29, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Forest Spirit is not kirin. 

message: A cultural meaning of Japan is disturbed. 220.104.48.146 (talk) 09:09, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stupid localization. boar-demon(祟り神) and forest spirit(シシ神) is [[kami]]. 

message: In the plot section, we have the Japanese voice actor's name beside each character. However, as this is the English Wikipedia, wouldn't it be more appropriate to have the English dub actors listed? I understand that the Japanese version is the 'original and authentic', and I know that some of the more committed fans prefer the Japanese dub, but still, I'm thinking in terms of the wider audience here. I would expect that more people are familiar with Gillian Anderson and Claire Danes than... those other folks. Vranak (talk) 13:43, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Went ahead with the changes. Vranak (talk) 13:53, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Having the Japanese voice-actors listed in the plot section 

message: I am going to work extensively on the production section. The soundtrack section can be merged with the section, and can be also expanded upon as well with the history and studies regarding the film's motifs (i.e. the environmental themes and motifs). For example, the documentary for Princess Mononoke can be used as a source. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:47, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest avoiding the quotes and copy edit it.Lucia Black (talk) 19:48, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That will also work. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Currently the cast section is pretty bare; I suggest moving the content discussing the characters in the production section be located to the individual character entries in the cast section, and then that section will be fleshed out with sourced background information on the casting. The production section can then exclusively deal with the development and realization of the project. I also recommend creating an inspirations section where the John Ford influences can be expanded upon (here is one I did at another article. That way the production section can just cover the filmmaking process. Betty Logan (talk) 20:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Production

message: For the lead section, I think we should simply summarize the article as a whole per WP:LEAD. Per WP:MOSFILM#Lead, we should first begin this section with the year, nationality, genre and director. Then, we should mention the starring roles (in this case, voice actors) and the premise. The next couple of paragraphs should include the development information and history of the English localization. Then, we should mention the release dates, the reception of the film and awards they have made. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:17, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Leave plot section, it's good now. But in preambule as I told on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film, we don't need plural repetition of cast. We need there "chief" voice stars (like voices of Ahitaka and San, if you will be adding it, but I still think that it's unnecessary by common sence). Awards too, too many of them, only if pick out the most significant and important. Production section... authoritative sources are necessarily if will write motifs like environmental and so on. "Anon with IP" 12:57, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I am fine with mentioning the main voice cast members in the lead section. The infobox is another way to summarize the information and will tend to overlap with the details in the lead section. With film as a visual medium, the front-end (starring actors, live or voice) is consistently mentioned. The back-end (crew members) depends on the film; the director is pretty much always mentioned, but a person like the cinematographer may only be mentioned if the article discusses substantial contributions. Erik (talk | contribs) 14:33, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

text: The lead should basically be a concise version of the article. At the moment it doesn't say anything about the production, release or reception. The main voice actors should be included, but I would suggest leaving out the dubbing actors. Betty Logan (talk) 20:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: All of the dead citations have been replaced, but all of the references should be archived so we don't lose anymore. For example, WebCite is a good tool for this. Just follow the instructions, it easy and takes only minutes. Then add the archived url and the archive date to the citation with the parameters |archiveurl= and |archivedate=. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 11:44, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations

message: This section is essentially a list so far and has absolutely no sources. I am thinking we should convert it to prose format or table format and cite the available sources. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:46, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a table format would be best. It would be hard to read all these items in prose. I like the way List of highest-grossing films uses a "Ref" column in the first table. Perhaps we can trim the list of awards to the ones that have been reported by secondary sources? That way, we can attach some importance to them. There may be some minor awards that only had a press release and shouldn't qualify for listing. Erik (talk | contribs) 20:54, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, a table format should work best as well and I also find that too difficult to read all of the items as prose or lists as well. I agree that we should trim the list of awards to the ones reported by secondary sources. Some minor awards that only have a press release should not be qualified for the listing. For a good example of how tables are used, please see Thor (film)#Accolades. :-) Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The Thor approach looks like a good way to me. In respect of which awards to include, I think it's best to limit awards to national/international awards, and any any awards covered by independent seocndary sources. That way these regional critics awards and magazine promotional cruft is left out. Betty Logan (talk) 20:59, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. We should just limit awards to national/international awards and any awards covered by independent secondary sources and we should also avoid the regional critical awards and magazine promotional cruft. I am working on this matter in my sandbox and will implement it a little later, as this may take a couple of days. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Awards

message: I am actually quite surprised that this does not have a themes section. We should use the references Erik gave me in his email. For reference on how themes for films are used in Featured Articles, a very good example can be found on Star Trek: First Contact#Themes and Conan the Barbarian (1982 film)#Themes. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:21, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Themes

message: The reception section is in a pretty bad state in its current form. I suggest that we should reformat it to include box office and critical reception. While I am in the process of writing up my part of the reception in the sandbox, I am going to use reviews from the LA Times, Boston Globe, The New York Times, the San Francisco Chronicle and so forth. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:32, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the reception section needs to be completely overhauled. The section doesn't really say what critics like or disliked about the film, and the focus seems to be on the dubbing, which is largely incidental to the quality of the film. Betty Logan (talk) 21:12, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. Working on it in my sandbox and will implement parts of it as I go. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:37, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there any references that have a meta-analysis of what critics thought? For example, a book did this for the first sentence at Panic Room#Critical reception. Erik (talk | contribs) 12:06, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Reception

message: The release section needs a complete overhaul. It does not have release dates and this section is completely unsourced, apart with the localization section which has at least two sources. We also need to include premiere dates for the English releases and we can merge part of the localization section in with the reception section as well as the production section. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:16, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Release

message: As per Erik's email:
CLARKE, James: Feature: Ecology and Animation: Animation Gone Wild: Bambi vs Princess Mononoke
Imagine (1748-1244) v.31 , May 2010, p.36-39, English, illus
Examines the links between Hayao Miyazaki's Princess Mononoke (1997) and Disney's Bambi (1942).
JOLIN, Dan: Back story: Miyazaki on Miyazaki
Empire n.243 , August 2009, p.114-123, English, illus
Profile an interview with Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki about his long career, with discussion about the themes and production of many of his films.
OSMOND, Andrew: The top 10: Cartoon songs
Empire n.239 , May 2009, p.152-153, English, illus
Briefly lists and critiques the ten best songs from cartoon and animated features.
BIGELOW, Susan J.: Technologies of perception: Miyazaki in theory and practice
Animation (1746-8477) v.4 n.1 , March 2009, p.[55]-75, English
Article discussing the work of Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki and its philosophy, with particular reference to Shinto religious imagery.
KIM, Eunjung & JARMAN, Michelle: Modernity's Rescue Mission: Postcolonial Transactions of...
Canadian Journal of Film Studies (0847-5911) v.17 n.1 , April 2008, p.52-68, English, illus
'...Disability and Sexuality'. Part of a whole issue on film and disability, this article examines national identity and disability in PRINCESS MONONOKE and The GOOD WOMAN OF BANGKOK.
GOULDING, Jay: Crossroads of Experience:Miyazaki Hayao's Global/Local Nexus
Asian Cinema (1059-440X) v.17 n.2 , October 2006, p.114-123, English
Looking particularly at two of Miyazaki Hayao's films MONON- OKE HIME (Princess Monoke) and SEN TO CHIHIRO NO KAMIKAKUSHI (Spirited Away) as responses to cultural globalisation -i.e. Japanese culture responding to American and Asian influenc
LEYLAND, Matthew: Princess Mononoke
Sight and Sound (0037-4806) v.16 n.6 , June 2006, p.90-91, English
SCHILLING, Mark: The modest monster
Screen International (0307-4617) n.1490 , 25 February 2005, p.16, English, illus
Profile of Studio Ghibli from its scrappy upstart to its landmark creations by Hayao Miyazaki: SPIRITED AWAY, HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE and PRINCESS MONONOKE.
WHITE, Dave: PRINCESS MONONOKE: SYMPHONIC SUITE
StarBurst (0955-114X) n.277 , September 2001, p.73, English, illus
C.K.: Princess Mononoke
Premiere (0894-9263) v.14 n.2 , October 2000, p.90, English, illus
HARRISON, Genevieve: Mononoke hokey cokey
Empire n.134 , August 2000, p.20, English, illus
On why Buena Vista has failed to release Hayao Miyazaki's MONONOKE HIME in the UK. Includes reference to other animation films by Hayao Miyazaki which have never been released in the UK.
PEDROLETTI, Brice: L'animation d'auteur veut s'imposer au pays de Pikachu
Le Film Francais (0397-8702) n.2382 , 09 June 2000, p.15-17, French, illus
Focus on Japanese animation and its success internationally. Looks in particular at the POKEMON films, with an interview with Masakazu Kubo their executive producer; and at DIGIMON and PRINCESS MONONOKE.
JONES, Alan: Reviews: movies
StarBurst (0955-114X) n.260 , April 2000, p.93, English, illus
GÉNIN, Bernard: Princess Mononoke
Télérama n.2609 , 12 January 2000, p.30, French, illus
O'NEILL, Eithne: Princesse Mononoke; Mon voisin Totoro: Hauts faits et pasto.
Positif (0048-4911) n.467 , January 2000, p.32-33, French, illus
DELORME, Gérard: PRINCESSE MONONOKÉ
Premiere (0399-3698) n.275 , January 2000, p.61-62, French, illus
Review of MONONOKE HIME and interview with Hayao Miyazaki.
[J.B.]: Score of scores 1999: the animaniacs
Film Score Monthly v.4 n.10 , December 1999, p.44, English
Soundtrack review.
HAZELTON, John: Animated English accent
Screen International (0307-4617) n.1234 , 12 November 1999, p.8, English, illus
On Miramax Films marketing an English dubbed version of PRINCESS MONONOKE to a broader audience than the usual animation fans.
BURR, Ty: Quick takes
Entertainment Weekly (1049-0434) n.511 , November 1999, p.50, English, illus
FILM REVIEWS
Variety (0042-2738) , November 1999, p.88, English, illus
Review of release of English dubbed version
KHOURY, George: An interview with Neil Gaiman
Creative Screenwriting (1084-8665) v.6 n.6 , November 1999, p.63-65, English, illus
An interview with Neil Gaiman who discusses the process of writing the English screenplay for the Japanese animation PRINCESS MONONOKE.
WILNER, Norman: Cinema Scope review
Cinema Scope (1488-7002) n.1 , September 1999, p.96, English
Reviews of films shown in 1999 Toronto International Film Festival.
VITARIS, Paula: Princess Mononoke
Cinefantastique (0145-6032) v.31 n.4 , April 1999, p.7, English, illus
Neil Gaiman talks about writing the English language dialogue for the English version of PRINCESS MONONOKE
LURIO, Eric: Toon reviews
Animato (1042-539X) n.40 , April 1999, p.113, English, illus
DOYLE, Wyatt: Disney Turning Japanese
Asian Cult Cinema n.21 , December 1998, p.25-28, English, illus
On the success of MONONOKE HIME (Princess Mononoke)in Japan. Disney immediately scooped up the rights for the film out- side of Japan. Japanese animation continues to be successful both at home and internationally.
SCHILLING, Mark; BROWN, Colin: Marketing News: Royal Ascent
Screen International (0307-4617) n.1146 , 20 February 1998, p.18, English, illus
on the marketing of the film in the US
KLADY, Leonard
Variety (0042-2738) , 02 February 1998, p.28, English, illus
SCHILLING, Mark: Reviews
Screen International (0307-4617) n.1117 , 18 July 1997, p.16, English
SCHILLING, Mark: Marketing Focus: By royal appointment
Screen International (0307-4617) n.1117 , 18 July 1997, p.11, English, illus
on the marketing of Studio Ghibli in Japan
FITZPATRICK, Michael: Front desk clips: manga mouse!
Empire n.96 , June 1997, p.30, English, illus
Disney will be distributing Hayo Miyazaka's latest movie, The PRINCESS MONONOKE.
These will help the article immensely. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:36, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources to use 

message: In the next couple of days or weeks at least, I am going to be in the process of writing up a complete redraft of the entire article using the suggestions provided above, along with the sources Erik provided for me in my email and also other sources that I will find (such as books about Miyazaki himself and the production). This result will be an article that conform to the policies and guidelines of this project. I will also implement the redraft when I finish it and then have it peer reviewed. The ultimate goal after this is to possibly get it into a GA or an FA and have it featured on the main page as a TFA on July 12, 2017, the film's 20th anniversary. And let us not forget User:AnmaFinotera, one of the top contributors of the article who, sadly, is in permanent retirement. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:25, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  2012 redraft 

message: Please see WT:FILM#Edit war on Princess Mononoke for discussion on the plot summary. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:44, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot length discussion 

message: This section doesn't make sense. 
First it says:
"In July 2000, Buena Vista Home Entertainment announced plans to release the film on VHS and DVD in North America on August 29.",
then:
"The DVD release of Princess Mononoke was delayed as a result.",
and finally:
"Buena Vista Home Entertainment released the DVD on July 2000 with bonus extras added"
How could it be announced in July 2000 to be released in August of 2000, get delayed, and then get released in July of 2000? 205.143.205.150 (talk) 22:10, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Home Media 

message: I got the following references from the article history so they can be checked for potential use in the article.
* 
* 
 I hope you were being careful and not merely lucky (WP:CITEVAR). – Allen4names (contributions) 19:36, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: *Sorry I forgot to take the sources here, I would love to see them go back in here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 20:03, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  References that need to be checked 

message: Princess Mononoke is the only Miramax film that Disney has retained the rights to.  Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 04:04, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivial information?

message: Am I missing something here? Surely anything that is a source for something in the article should be a reference? "Sources" section just seems to be a random "suggested reading" list with no indication which parts of the article, if any,  relate to which source. 210.246.46.244 (talk) 10:29, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there any point to the "sources" section? 

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