Talk:Minister-president

message: in interpreting we have these discussions all the time, and as for the interpreters "minister-president" seems inadequate, i have to agree on that. As mentioned below, appropriate translations are "state premier" or "premier", a "prime minister" is the head of a federal government, e.g. Tony Blair, and therefore should not be used to describe the head of a state government. I cannot imagine a native speaker outside of Germany would understand the term "minister-president". One has to be careful with using plausible translations like "governor" in a US-context, even though it probably describes best what is meant, but i guess a governor has slightly different functions than a state premier in Germany and thus could add to the confusion. Imagine Henry Kissinger at a meeting asking: "Since when do they have governors??" 
"The Hessian Minister-President" sounds like if a German native had translated it into English using the Langenscheidt.
Why aren't they called Prime Ministers? I haven't read the term Minister-president anywhere outside Wikipedia in an English language text.
:to answer your question, actually they are sometimes, which just adds to the confusion. The homepage of the government of Brandenburg clearly states the Ministerpräsident as "Prime Minister of Brandenburg", whereas Bavaria uses "Minister-President". I will try to find out the correct usage..
ps: I have just received an email from the Hessian State Chancellery. I will quote: "Nach nochmalieger Nachfrage in der Abteilung Protokoll in der Hessischen Staatskanzlei wurde mir mitgeteilt, dass die offizielle englische Bezeichnung für Hessischer Ministerpräsident wie folgt lautet: "The Hessian Minister-President"." So I hope this clears some confusion. Gryffindor 21:02, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Older

message: Shouldn't the plural be "Minister-Presidents", because of the hyphen? EVen if it doesn't, it sounds better and makes more sense than, "Ministers-President"...
-Alex 12.220.157.93 03:37, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plural 

message: It should be noted, though, that the tilte of "Minister-President" is neither uniquely German nor confined to heads of government of sub-national entities: The Netherlands also have an "Minister-President", and the German terms has its origin in a time where Germany consited of several independent states.
– Mind that each of the four constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands have a Minister President, though, indeed it does seem that in the Native English such persons are usually called Prime MinstersThW5 (talk) 05:17, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minister-President of the Netherlands 

message: A discussion and vote on the topic is going on right now. Kingjeff (talk) 03:34, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minister-President in Germany discussion and vote 

message: Is he special? does he have a different title? 95.208.187.120 (talk) 17:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Why does wiki call all german Ministerpräsidenet minister-president exept the Lower Saxon one ? (who is calld prime minister on wiki) 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Much of the section on Germany appears to be unsourced original research of an evaluative nature. 
This includes the comparisons between German ministers-president and
* the governor of a U.S. State 
* the premier of an Australian state 
* the premier of a Canadian province 
* the constitutional order of South Africa. 
* the Chancellor of Germany 
* the President of Germany.
I would suggest all the unsourced stuff be removed. 
--Boson (talk) 13:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: This article is more about the term "minister president" than the concept of head of government of a federated state (e.g. Germany) or the different concept of head of government of a sovereign state (e.g. Netherlands) . 
The section with a list of German state heads of government makes it rather top-heavy and unfocused.
I would suggest splitting off the list of the heads of German states (together with some explanation) into a separate article – something like the article List of current United States governors. 
Detailled discussion of the differences between the different German states could also be moved there, preferably without the unsourced original research. 
--Boson (talk) 13:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea! If nobody disagrees over the next days/weeks, I could start with the article. The discussion of the differences has to be sourced by the state constitutions, which I wanted to do anyway, but this will take a bit of time, as these are sixteen different documents. Alektor89 (talk) 09:18, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I had the same thought when I first read this article.  Have fun! Pelirojopajaro (talk) 09:26, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok, I started to work on the article in my sandbox. If that's convenient, I will implement the revised article, when finished,...but this will take some time, I guess, complicated business ... Alektor89 (talk) 12:56, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

text:  Thanks! Of course, any discussion of differences based on the constitutions would have to be careful to avoid synthesis. --Boson (talk) 13:43, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I think the best way will be, to be strictly descriptive. I have studied the constitutions over the last days and have made the following table, which shows the most important differences between the 16 state constitutions with regard to the Ministers President or their equivalent in Berlin/Bremen/Hamburg. The table should be part of a section "Constitutional roles and powers". Each state has a source-link to a digital copy of the respective state constitution in their current forms.
State                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         	Title                            	election threshold                                                                                                                                   	recall procedure                                                                                                                                           	position in cabinet  	power to shape the cabinet                                                                                                                     	right to grant pardon	minimum age  	other provisions
Baden-Württemberghttps://www.lpb-bw.de/bwverf/Landesverfassung-BW.pdf                                                                                                                                                                         	Minister President               	majority of members                                                                                                                                  	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	cabinet appointments subject to parliamentary approval, the state parliament may recall individual cabinet ministers with a two-thirds majority	yes                  	35           	
Free State of Bavariahttps://www.uni-augsburg.de/einrichtungen/gleichstellungsbeauftragte/downloads/bayerische_verfassung.pdf                                                                                                                 	Minister President               	simple majority                                                                                                                                      	none, has to resign, if a cooperation with the state parliament is not possible anymore                                                                    	guideline competence 	cabinet appointments subject to parliamentary approval                                                                                         	yes                  	40           	
Berlinhttp://www.datenschutz.fu-berlin.de/dahlem/ressourcen/datenschutz-fordert/rechtliche-datenschutzforderungen/verfassung-berlin.pdf                                                                                                       	Governing Mayor                  	simple majority                                                                                                                                      	vote of no confidence, but if the state parliament does not elect a new Governing Mayor within 21 days, the former officeholder is reinvested automatically	guideline competence 	full                                                                                                                                           	no (whole cabinet)   	18 (de facto)	
Brandenburghttps://bravors.brandenburg.de/de/gesetze-212792                                                                                                                                                                                   	Minister President               	majority of members (first and second ballot), plurality (third ballot)                                                                              	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	full                                                                                                                                           	yes                  	18 (de facto)	
Free Hanseatic City of Bremenhttps://www.bremische-buergerschaft.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Informationsmaterial/LandesverfassungBremen_2016_web.pdf                                                                                            	President of the Senate and Mayor	simple majority                                                                                                                                      	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	ceremonial precedence	none, all cabinet members are elected and may be recalled by the state parliament                                                              	no (whole cabinet)   	18           	may not be a member of the state parliament
Free Hanseatic City of Hamburghttp://www.landesrecht-hamburg.de/jportal/portal/page/bshaprod.psml?showdoccase=1&st=lr&doc.id=jlr-VerfHArahmen&doc.part=X&doc.origin=bs                                                                        	First Mayor                      	majority of members                                                                                                                                  	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	cabinet appointments subject to parliamentary approval                                                                                         	no (whole cabinet)   	18           	may not be a member of the state parliament
Hessehttp://starweb.hessen.de/cache/hessen/landtag/enquetekommissionverfassung/Hessische%20Verfassung.pdf                                                                                                                                     	Minister President               	majority of members                                                                                                                                  	vote of no confidence                                                                                                                                      	guideline competence 	dismissal of a cabinet minister is subject to parliamentary approval                                                                           	yes                  	18 (de facto)	members of noble houses, which have reigned in Germany before 1918, are ineligible for office
Lower Saxonyhttp://www.nds-voris.de/jportal/portal/t/13kl/page/bsvorisprod.psml/action/portlets.jw.MainAction?p1=10&eventSubmit_doNavigate=searchInSubtreeTOC&showdoccase=1&doc.hl=0&doc.id=jlr-VerfNDpArt29&doc.part=S&toc.poskey=#focuspoint	Minister President               	majority of members or plurality, if the state parliament does not elect a Minister President in 21 days and does not dissolve itself thereupon      	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	cabinet appointments subject to parliamentary approval                                                                                         	yes                  	18 (de facto)	
Mecklenburg-Vorpommernhttps://www.landtag-mv.de/fileadmin/media/Dokumente/Druckerzeugnisse/LT_Verfassung_01-2012.pdf                                                                                                                          	Minister President               	majority of members or plurality, if the state parliament does not elect a Minister President in 28 days and does not dissolve itself thereupon      	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	full                                                                                                                                           	yes                  	18 (de facto)	
North Rhine-Westphaliahttps://www.krefeld.de/C1257478002CCFBA/html/48CCFE93623BD475C12574F10052F97F/$File/Verfassung_fuer_das_Land_NRW.pdf?OpenElement                                                                                        	Minister President               	majority of members (first ballot), simple majority (second and third ballot), runoff (fourth ballot)                                                	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	full                                                                                                                                           	yes                  	18           	has to be a member of the state parliament
Rhineland-Palatinatehttps://www.rlp.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Landesverfassung.pdf                                                                                                                                                             	Minister President               	majority of members                                                                                                                                  	vote of no confidence                                                                                                                                      	guideline competence 	full                                                                                                                                           	yes                  	18 (de facto)	
Saarlandhttps://www.landtag-saar.de/Dokumente/Gesetze/Verfassung%20des%20Saarlandes.pdf                                                                                                                                                       	Minister President               	majority of members                                                                                                                                  	vote of no confidence                                                                                                                                      	guideline competence 	cabinet appointments and dismissals subject to parliamentary approval                                                                          	no (whole cabinet)   	18 (de facto)	
Free State of Saxonyhttps://www.revosax.sachsen.de/vorschrift/3975-Verfassung                                                                                                                                                                 	Minister President               	majority of members (first ballot), simple majority (following ballots)                                                                              	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	full                                                                                                                                           	yes                  	18 (de facto 	
Saxony-Anhalthttp://www.landesrecht.sachsen-anhalt.de/jportal/?quelle=jlink&query=Verf+ST&psml=bssahprod.psml&max=true&aiz=true                                                                                                               	Minister President               	majority of members or simple majority, if the state parliament does not elect a Minister President in 14 days and does not dissolve itself thereupon	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	full                                                                                                                                           	yes                  	18 (de facto)	
Schleswig-Holsteinhttp://www.gesetze-rechtsprechung.sh.juris.de/jportal/?quelle=jlink&query=Verf+SH&psml=bsshoprod.psml&max=true&aiz=true                                                                                                     	Minister President               	majority of members (first and second ballot), pluralitiy (third ballot)                                                                             	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	full                                                                                                                                           	yes                  	18 (de facto)	
Free State of Thuringiahttp://www.landtag.thueringen.de/landtag/gremien-und-rechtsgrundlagen/rechtsgrundlagen/landesverfassung/                                                                                                               	Minister President               	majority of members (first and second ballot), pluralitiy (third ballot)                                                                             	constructive vote of no confidence                                                                                                                         	guideline competence 	full                                                                                                                                           	yes                  	18 (de facto)	
Alektor89 (talk) 23:27, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Split proposed