Talk:L4 microkernel family

message: Just added preliminaries about this announcement, which may turn out to be very significant if it increases the usage, as I expect it to. I have not managed to get the link to the 2-clause BSD license quite right, and haven't time (or maybe patience!) to fix it, so I would be most grateful if someone else would tidy it up, and of course feel free to add to what I have briefly written, or even start a new section. Tiger99 (talk) 10:24, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Open Source 

message: Just started doing some major modifications in order to improve the article.  I've massaged most of the the text quite a bit, added a lot of text, and also split things into clearly defined sections.  There are a number of other changes that would serve this article good:
* A section (after the background section) describing the concepts behind L4. Thread and IPC, and address spaces and mapping.
* A separate section related to performance.
* A section on the use of L4 in industry (and research).
* Perhaps a more coherent description of the various kernel implementations and APIs would be good.  This might just cause even more confusion, though.  I don't know.
Still, I believe this is a step in the right direction.  --- eSk 18:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major overhaul 

message: In the first paragrpah you write "Since then" but I don't see any mention of a date (or even just a year) anywere in the page.
When was its development's beginning?
Thanks. Penedo 07:37, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  When was its development's beginning? 

message: You state that the linux kernel is 33 million lines big.
According to the data in
http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/linux-kernel-cost.html
it's more around 4,287,449.
This is the reported count on 2.6, presumebly the current
kernel as of October 2004 (i.e. 2.6.8.1-2.6.9, according
to http://edge-op.org/files/kernel-timeline)
I assume you are talking about the kernel alone, as this
is the subject of this article and you reffer specifically
to the kernel.  If you were reffering
to the entire distirubtion, then the same paper at the
first link quotes 17 million lines for the entire RH 6.2
distribution (circa 2000). Maybe later versions indeed
reach the 33 million figure since the linux desktop has
balooned since 2000, but this shouldn't be the number used
when reffering to the kernel alone, IMHO.
Thanks for writing such an interesting entry.
Penedo 08:10, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that dwheeler's study counted SLOC rather than lines-in-a-file like the cat|wc -l solution does. Of course, microkernel proponents will use the latter rather than the former because, hell, it looks better if you count all the comments as evidence of overbearing complexity too! 62.236.124.118 16:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong number of lines in the linux kernel 

message: I am not an expert in Fiasco but I've been looking at it for a case study. The article says that Fiasco is fully preemptible and that it does not use preemption points. I guess this was true in the original implementation by Michael Hohmuth (see Pragmatic nonblocking synchronization for real-time systems), however, after many changes made to the IPC subsystem by René Reusner (see Implementierung eines Echtzeit-IPC-Pfades mit Unterbre-chungspunkten für L4/Fiasco), Fiasco now has explicit preemption points.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamalet (talk • contribs) 15:35, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiasco and preemption points 

message: The intro says:
well known in the computer industry for their excellent performance and small footprint.
I think this is not NPOV the way it's written. Please link to a reference with performance and footprint comparisons, rephrase, move the text down to the main article or remove it. If it stays this way for a long time, it's better to insert a POV check notice in the article. --Hdante 23:34, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you like, check the god damn See Also links? Because it is pretty fucking obvious once you read some of that stuff. --Kintaro 17:41, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "See also" is not the same thing as "References".  If you need one of the documents in that section (presumably the one that is now called "External links") to support a point made in the article, it should be moved to the "References" section at the very least.  Probably also given a footnote from the sentence in question.  I haven't read the references or the external links so don't know if this is still necessary. JulesH 09:03, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV intro 

message: According to HURD: "In 2006, Marcus Brinkmann and associates have met with Jonathan Shapiro (one of the primary achitects of the Coyotos Operating System) to aid in and discuss the use of the Coyotos kernel for GNU/Hurd as there is no focus on L4 anymore." 84.48.58.93 11:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Word is that the L4 Hurd has been stopped for a while, and that there is a desire to see a fully native L4 OS implementation.--John Bessa (talk) 19:41, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  HURD 

message: Does this mean Monolithic kernel? The word isn't defined or linked, can someone who knows do this please. Gene Thomas 05:00, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Monokernal? 

message: Do we have performance stats for more recent hardware than a 486?  Performance of IPC calls that need to cross address spaces depend greatly on size of TLB, memory architecture, etc. and may be substantially different in different processor designs.  Also comparisons to both (a) IPC calls on a monolithic kernel (e.g. Linux) and (b) system calls on a monolithic kernel (as IPC is used to replace syscalls on a microkernel) would be helpful. JulesH 08:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Performance? 

message: L4.sec isn't mentioned in this article at all. L4.sec is a new movement towards adding security to L4 (for various reasons), started as a response to growing security concerns and movements in the capability-based direction (which L4 is not). If anyone gets the time, please include a new (properly cited) section on this. --24.98.124.237 12:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  L4.sec 

message: According to http://lists.okl4.org/pipermail/developer/2007-October/000370.html , 1.5.2 and later are licensed under something like the Sleepycat License, which is not a BSD license.  I'm not bold enough to stick this in the text without reading the actual license. Yuubi 17:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  OKL4 licensing change 

message: link called seL4 points to L4.verified, not to seL4 subpage of the same page, which also exists. Is this a mistake or is it intentional, since, as I gather L4.verified is a project to verify properties of the seL4 microkernel? I redirected the link since I found this confusing, but not sure if I did the right thing--78.0.209.237 (talk) 18:30, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well spotted. Looks to me like you fixed it exactly right: L4.verified is a related but separate NICTA project. Thanks, CWC 12:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  seL4 or L4.verified 

message: Since this section represents the on-going manifestation of L4, then this material should be expanded further, or given its own page.  If you think about it, much of the other material is historical making it less relevant in terms of interest to, well, Userland.
I am undertaking an understanding of the userland interface, L4Re.  The architecture is available here on the OS.INF site maintained by the group at TU Dresden through doxygen.  I would personally like to implement it on a standard PC, and document my learning as a how-to on sister-site Wikiversity.  I can add the standard information here as I develop the how-to information there.  I want to create entry points for middle and high school students who, from frustration, spend their time playing video games because they cannot work with OSs, which is many of them. 
I would make sense if someone interested in the hypervisor implementations could parallel my Userland documentation to balance the writing.  I am brilliant at finding and understanding supporting material, but I am not strong at citing in the WP standard format, and need help there.--John Bessa (talk) 19:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a link to the Genode site. Isidore (talk) 06:48, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current research and development 

message: L3 microkernel is a hopeless non-notable unreferenced stub with a homepage at L4, it should be integrated here or deleted. –Be..anyone (talk) 10:31, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Didn't even know that page existed! I agree, there's no point for a separate page. It's technically incorrect too. Although the paragraph in this page isn't exactly correct either. There's a lot of confusion arising from the fact that Liedtke in his '93 SOSP paper was still talking about L3 when if fact he was describing an interim version that was very close to what finally became L4. L3 (despite Jochen using the term at the time) wasn't a microkernel in the sense he defined it in '95 (minimality), which is what's now the accepted definition. heiser (talk) 10:53, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  L3 microkernel 

message: The partial sentence "based on the L4 version used in NICTA's Darbat project" in the commercial section is not supported by a cite as far as I can see. Can anyone verify that this is the case? The cite before this part of the sentence does not mention Darbat or Nicta. As there are other commercially available L4 variants and Apple could well have written their own from scratch it is not obvious that this should be based on Darbat. The change was introduced here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=L4_microkernel_family&diff=646002545&oldid=645254093 presumably by the mastermind behind seL4 (Gernot Heiser) and is very close to advertisement ... (93.218.160.230 (talk) 08:00, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It's factual and provides useful information, calling it advertisement is a bit far fetched. However, I don't have a reference (other than personal knowledge of the situation, plus the fact that the Darbat project was done by a student who is now an Apple employee). Feel free to delete if you think purity is more important than useful information. heiser (talk) 11:41, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is A7 L4 based on Darbat? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: approve the L4 article has almost as much on L3 as this one. Peter Flass (talk) 00:20, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: was this question supposed to be on the L3 page? heiser (talk) 01:17, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

text: probably, I didn't suggest the merge. Peter Flass (talk) 08:59, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I support merging L3 microkernel into this article. CWC 19:51, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

text: I had suggested it in the first place, so support heiser (talk) 22:54, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  proposed merge 

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thread_title:  External links modified