Talk:Sonnō jōi

message: Changed the See Also reference to Clavell's Gai-Jin rather than Shogun. Shogun is set in the 17th century, beginning of the Edo Era, predating sonno-joi. Gai-Jin is set at the end of the Edo Era, mid-19th century, when the Sonno-joi movement was pivotal in overthrowing the bakufu. I really enjoy Clavell's work, except for his benighted changing of Tokugawa to Torunaga for reasons I cannot begin to fathom. I mean, Ieyasu is not going to sue!
TimBovee 18:09, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Change

message: As above... the oh-so-sweeping edits of the content save the lead sentence in the context of the version.
* Additions
#sometimes translated as Revere the Emperor, Expel the Barbarians,"Revere the Emperor" is more literally translated as "Revere the King" from the characters of the Chinese expression. (See: )
# During the Warring States period of China, Chancellor Guan Zhong of Qi initiated a policy known as Zunwang Rangyi (尊王攘夷; lit. "Revere the King, Expel the Barbarians"), in reference to the Zhou kings. 
# Adopting and adhering to it, Duke Huan of Qi assembled the Chinese feudal lords to strike down the threat of barbarians from China. 
# Confucius himself praised Guan Zhong for the preservation of Chinese civilization by noting the example that they didn't have disheveled hair or wore clothing that folded to the left, a reference to the customs of barbaric peoples. 
# Through the Analects of Confucius, the Chinese expression came to be transmitted to Japan as sonnō jōi.
*Removed
# The slogan sonnō jōi ( or  in Kanji) has its origins in China with Duke Huan of Qi, the ruler of the state of Qi in the Spring and Autumn Period.Gongyang Zhuan, 4th year of Duke Xi Foreign invasions, especially by the Quanrong, had by then destroyed the centralised power of the Zhou Dynasty court, rendering the Zhou kings nominal rulers while its vassals became independent states. Under Duke Huan, Qi had grown to preeminence among the states, and the slogan was used to give legitimacy to Qi's position as the hegemon among the states; instead of usurping the legitimate authority of the Zhou kings to command its vassals, Qi claimed that it was using its dominant position to defend and support the existing order.
# In Japan, the origin of the philosophy can be traced to works by 17th century Confucian scholars Yamazaki Ansai and Yamaga Sokō, who wrote on the sanctity of the Japanese Imperial house and its superiority to the ruling houses of other nations. These ideas were expanded by Kokugaku scholar Motoori Norinaga, and seen in Takenouchi Shikibu's theory of absolute loyalty to the Emperor (尊皇論 sonnōron), that implied that less loyalty should be given to the ruling Tokugawa Shogunate.
# Mito domain scholar Aizawa Seishisai introduced term sonnō jōi into modern Japanese in his work Shinron in 1825, where sonnō was regarded as the reverence expressed by the Tokugawa bakufu to the emperor and jōi was the proscription of Christianity.
# But this turned out to be the zenith of the sonnō jōi movement, since the Western powers responded by demanding heavy reparations and then bombarding the Satsuma capital of Kagoshima when these were not forthcoming. While this incident showed that Japan was no match for Western military powers, it also served to further weaken the shogunate, permitting the rebel provinces to ally and overthrow it in the Meiji Restoration.
# The slogan itself was never actually government or even rebel policy; for all its rhetoric, Satsuma in particular had close ties with the West, purchasing guns, artillery, ships and other technology.
# After the symbolic restoration of the Meiji Emperor, the sonnō jōi slogan was replaced with fukoku kyōhei (富国強兵), or "rich country, strong military" (enrich the nation, strengthen the armies), the rallying call of the Meiji Era and the seed of its actions during World War II.
*Ref
*Note
Added cited info, removed unverifiable info. Note that ref 5 is a primary source that has been replaced with secondary source ref 2 & 3, while its info is paraphrased accordingly.
--Cold Season (talk) 19:55, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Per the above, this article has been moved back to Sonnō jōi; please see to the appropriate revision of the lede. Cheers! bd2412 T 17:26, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Bit by bit

message: I'm confused about the current Etymology section that says Zunwang rangyi comes from the Warring States Period. When was this 尊王攘夷 phrase coined? Both the Dai Kan-Wa Jiten (no. 7445) and Hanyu Da Cidian (vol. 2, p. 1281) cite Pi Xirui 皮锡瑞's (1907) Jingxue lishi 經學歷史 as the earliest usage. Keahapana (talk) 00:00, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Folksy etymology