Talk:Bruce Fein

message: With 175,000 Google hits, I am somewhat astonished to find that an article on Mr Fein does not already exist. --IslandGyrl 20:57, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Google hits 

message: The following paragraph in the Bruce Fein article seem to violate Wikipedia guidelines:
I smiled with amusement when I read Bruce Fein’s article that appeared on June 8th on TamilNet. Just in case you don’t know who he is, he’s the media mercenary from Washington D.C., a former US Deputy Attorney General, who is paid an alleged $100,000 per month to campaign for an independent Tamil State in Sri Lanka. His retainer fees come from “Tamils for Justice,” which I and many others believe is a transparent front organization funded by LTTE. Mr. Fein, of course, says that it’s not, but it would be interesting to investigate where the money comes from that supports TFJ – as well as Mr. Fein’s website organization dedicated to the same cause called the “Bruce Fein Project.” The latter is a clever name, don’t you think? Sounds like something for science class or a 70’s rock band. What these two organizations promote, however, is far from benign. They plot and promote separation, death, and the destruction of a sovereign nation – yours!
First, there are usages of pronoun "I" and a usage of "you".  According to the Wikipedia: Manual of Style, first and second-person pronouns are not to be used unless quoting text (and a few other exceptions).
Second, the statement found in the third sentence which is ...which I and many others believe is a transparent front organization funded by LTTE.
seem to constitute weasel wording and original research.
Third, the overall tone of this paragraph is not encyclopedic, based partially on the possible violations of guidelines mentioned above, as well as irrellevent information (comparing the "Bruce Fein Project" to 70's rock bands), a rhetorical question by the author, and a lack of citation (for example the amount he is paid).  Also, in the final sentence, the author is not clear about which "sovereign nation" is being referred to.  This paragraph seems more like a blog entry or a forum entry and belongs at most on the Talk page (where it may be debated) than on the main article.
I will leave the editing of this paragraph to an experienced Wikipedia contributer (I'm still new and don't want to cause trouble).
At best, this paragraph is simply a mistake.  At worst, this paragraph is an act of vandalism.
--Zombiedroid (talk) 23:55, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad edit (see 1st paragraph) 

message: * http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch?query=Bruce+Fein&n=20&prev=0&frow=10&page=2
* http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/05/politics/05gonzales.html?scp=1&sq=Bruce%20Fein&st=cse
* http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904EFDB1230F93BA1575AC0A9639C8B63&scp=3&sq=Bruce%20Fein&st=cse
* http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE5D91338F933A25755C0A961948260
* http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE6DF1030F93BA15751C0A96E948260&scp=12&sq=Bruce%20Fein&st=cse
* http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DC143CF930A25753C1A964958260&sec=&spon=&&scp=15&sq=Bruce%20Fein&st=cse
* http://thelichfieldgroup.com/principals/ (bio)
* http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Bruce%20Fein&page=1
Avruch  T   19:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source options 

message: === Tamil tiger allegations ===
The recent edit war about the insertion of http://www.defence.lk/new.asp?fname=20080605_12 is being discussed at WT:SLR. — Sebastian 02:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole thing is a minor part of his career, and it seems to be a magnet for controversy and edit warring. The agita is not worth including this relatively new and minor detail in what is intended to be a biography. Avruch  T   18:42, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that it has become a magnet. I understand that your removal is an act of desperation, but it's not the only way to solve it, and I don't think it's the best way. I think, if a fact garners attention, it is usually better to cover it. A better solution is to stick with tried and proven policies. First and foremost, we need to stay on WP:TOPIC. I think that the section headline "Genocide of Tamil ethnic group in Sri Lanka" invited additions of off-topic text, which has to be removed. I would like us to agree on a better headline, especially since the connection of that headline with Mr Fein is not immediately apparent from looking at the TOC. — Sebastian 20:18, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

text:  We also need a reliable source for the statement "has been hired" - or we need to qualify it, as described at WP:SLR#QS. — Sebastian 20:31, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't garner attention because its of wide interest; it is a magnet for disruptive editing because it relates to a conflict with passionate people on both sides who wage a war of perception across the Internet. I'd like to see a cogent rationale for its inclusion, before we get too far into trying to find some consensus on what it should say. Keep in mind, too, that any talkpage consensus will be largely ignored by single purpose editors engaged in the revert war. Avruch  T   21:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Your point about the cogent rationale is fair enough; I won't argue against that. The problem with ignoring consensus is a different question: The single purpose editors who add the TfJ information don't find this page by random search and then edit it; they come here because they have heard about Mr Fein's connection with TfJ somewhere else and want to add what they feel is relevant information. Removing the information altogether will not prevent these editors from readding it; it thus will not solve the conflict. — Sebastian 22:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, you're right that removing the information won't completely solve the problem. On the other hand, I think a consensus on keeping the subject out of the article until it becomes more notable to Fein's life will be easier to maintain than a textual consensus on how the coverage will read. Avruch  T   22:16, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coverage of Tamils for Justice 

message: The recent edit war about the insertion of http://www.defence.lk/new.asp?fname=20080605_12 is being discussed at WT:SLR. — Sebastian 02:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tamil tiger allegations 

message: the section on tamils for justice is quite long. Fein has done other things in his life than this, and the article should reflect that. Either the other sections should be expanded, or this section should be shortened. Jasy jatere (talk) 22:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole thing is a minor part of his career, and it seems to be a magnet for controversy and edit warring. The agita is not worth including this relatively new and minor detail in what is intended to be a biography. Avruch  T   18:42, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that it has become a magnet. I understand that your removal is an act of desperation, but it's not the only way to solve it, and I don't think it's the best way. I think, if a fact garners attention, it is usually better to cover it. A better solution is to stick with tried and proven policies. First and foremost, we need to stay on WP:TOPIC. I think that the section headline "Genocide of Tamil ethnic group in Sri Lanka" invited additions of off-topic text, which has to be removed. I would like us to agree on a better headline, especially since the connection of that headline with Mr Fein is not immediately apparent from looking at the TOC. — Sebastian 20:18, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

text:  We also need a reliable source for the statement "has been hired" - or we need to qualify it, as described at WP:SLR#QS. — Sebastian 20:31, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't garner attention because its of wide interest; it is a magnet for disruptive editing because it relates to a conflict with passionate people on both sides who wage a war of perception across the Internet. I'd like to see a cogent rationale for its inclusion, before we get too far into trying to find some consensus on what it should say. Keep in mind, too, that any talkpage consensus will be largely ignored by single purpose editors engaged in the revert war. Avruch  T   21:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Your point about the cogent rationale is fair enough; I won't argue against that. The problem with ignoring consensus is a different question: The single purpose editors who add the TfJ information don't find this page by random search and then edit it; they come here because they have heard about Mr Fein's connection with TfJ somewhere else and want to add what they feel is relevant information. Removing the information altogether will not prevent these editors from readding it; it thus will not solve the conflict. — Sebastian 22:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, you're right that removing the information won't completely solve the problem. On the other hand, I think a consensus on keeping the subject out of the article until it becomes more notable to Fein's life will be easier to maintain than a textual consensus on how the coverage will read. Avruch  T   22:16, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section is too long 

message: To prevent further edit fights, I recommend placing the article or just that paragraph under the Sri Lanka Dispute Resolution Agreement - see discussion at WT:SLR#Bruce Fein. — Sebastian 20:18, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Placing article or section under Sri Lanka Dispute Resolution Agreement? 

message: I don't think the article in which Fein discussed the Armenian congressional resolution really qualifies him as an "Armenian genocide denier." He simply said that evidence points to Armenia also committing massacres (of the Turks) at that time as well, Turks also being massacred during World War II, and numbers of Armenians killed being inflated over time (he thinks the original quoted number of 500,000 is more likely than over a million). Seems to me he was just putting things in perspective and wondering why the alleged atrocities against the Turks weren't similarly acknowledged by Congress, not saying that the Armenian genocide didn't happen at all. I could be wrong, which is why I left a note on the talk page. I don't think that people should be included in such categories unless it's absolutely clear that they believe that way.--Gloriamarie (talk) 20:36, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not really the truth. There are more than enough Ottoman or non-Ottoman reports of Armenian massacres. Some reports go as high as 180 Muslim deaths in just a single month. And, the number of claimed deaths go from 300 thousand to as high as 2.4 million claimed by Armenians themselves. The official stance of Turkish government is roughly 600 thousand. What Bruce Fein argues that what happened does not fall in the definition of genocide but a product of famine, ethnic clashes and war time conditions. So he rejects the allegations of a genocide. TheDarkLordSeth (talk) 06:17, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Armenian genocide

message: An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:34, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Bruce Fein. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090306051051/http://thelichfieldgroup.com:80/principals/ to http://thelichfieldgroup.com/principals/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 04:28, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Bruce Fein. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add  after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121104021307/http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904EFDB1230F93BA1575AC0A9639C8B63&scp=3&sq=Bruce%20Fein&st=cse to http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904EFDB1230F93BA1575AC0A9639C8B63&scp=3&sq=Bruce%20Fein&st=cse
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 00:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Bruce Fein. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://archive.is/20121203200945/http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2007/06/29/another-doj-departure.aspx to http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2007/06/29/another-doj-departure.aspx
*Added  tag to http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/294832-1%2C
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080829050805/http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/Fein080725.pdf to http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/Fein080725.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:35, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified