Talk:Bride burning

message: There are many stereotypes being perpetuated in this article - while the issue of bride burning is more or less unique to India, it is not as if it happens all the time there. Statistically speaking, it doesn't happen any more often than a mother murders her children in the United States.  I am adding a comment regarding the reaction of the average Indian citizen to this practice in order to counteract what this article suggested. This is not a neutral article. 09 May 05 67.101.113.10
I agree. It is domestic violence and murder and is unrelated to Hinduism, except that it is usually triggered by dowry demands. Burning as a tool for violence and murder is unique to India, Pakistan and Bangladesh among Hindus, Muslims, and Christians probably because it is the easiest way of killing and hardest to prove seeing that it could be disguised as a kitchen accident. It is also the most common means of suicide among women in the Indian subcontinent.
Bride burning is a recent phenomenon (the past century or the past few decades) also and should be related more to the rise of western style consumerism than any religion. Also, this is in the category of 'Culture of India'. Will remove that.
The original content of this article was lifted from an article in CNN. It is not surprising though, seeing that western media has been consistently insensitive to/uncomprehending of the culture of India and Hinduism.
Stats - In 2000, 1,247 women were killed by an intimate partner in the US. Estimates range from 960,000 incidents of violence against a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend per year to three million women who are physically abused by their husband or boyfriend per year in the US.2 
US has little more than a quarter of the population of India, where police receive 2,500 reports of bride burning every year. 
Will rewrite article. --Pranathi 15:11, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how the link at the bottom is relevant. The article makes no claims about the relative violence level between India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and America. Kjkolb 11:54, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
Rewritten to remove all the copyvio content, most of which was lifted from an old CNN article. I've also tried to remove any judgements related to hinduism or its practice as a religion or belief. It would be nice if we could get some additional factual and statistical information on the subject. The references I was able to find are mostly news articles that cite widely varying "facts", and often come across as overly harsh or judgemental towards the underlying culture. Darcrist 04:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hindu Attitudes?

message: This is almost too bizarre. The_Irrelevant_One 18:53, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is a sad state of affairs that this tragedy did, and still does go on.  etc. etc. etc.1812ahill (talk) 23:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: What the Hell is This

message: National Crime Bureau has not published any data mentioning the exact number of Bride Burning in India. So far as 7026 deaths classified as "reported" dowry deaths by National Crime Bureau, a large number of them are suicides. How? Because, According to another source in National Crime Bureau, the number of suicides by Indian women are about 43000 every year compared to 65000 by men. The number of murders of Indian women per year are 7952 compared to 27467 murders of men in year 2005. So, the overall fatalities of women by suicide and murder are 43,000 and 7952 respectively (with a ratio of about 8:1). When we apply the same ratio to "reported" (not convicted) dowry deaths of 7026, then about 6300 of them should be suicides and about 800 have to be murders. So, the maximum possible figure for Bride Burning (if any) in India is 800 deaths per year as Bride Buring is a kind of murder. How?? It is claimed in the beginning of the article that the husband or his relatives douse the woman with Kerosene and set her on fire. As murder can happen by various other means like murder by stabbing, hitting with objects or poisoning, it is highly unlikely that the actual bride burnings in India are even 100 as "Bride Burning" as defined in the beginning of article is too difficult for anyone to implement. When a person is set on fire in a small house, there is every possibility that the material and furniture in the house catches fire leading to a dangerous situation for even the murderers, as a person set on fire is inherently unstable rushing all around till death.Newageindian 11:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Statistics

message: It is a important to note that the wikipedia article Dowry death gets redirected to Bride burning. Bride burning (if any) are a subset of the category of murders called Dowry deaths. So, someone has to create dowry death article and she should merge Bride burning to it.Newageindian 11:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirection from Dowry_death article

message: I have lived in India for 30 years. I have been to and stayed at about 35 odd places spread across 15 odd(out of 29)states of India. I(or more than 1000 people I have known thoroughly over 30 years) am yet to see a case of bride burning. On the contrary I see some feminists on net talking about it with much more frequency than perhaps these incidences actually occur spread over 1.1 billion of Indian population. Another practice of "Sati" has reported mere single digit cases( I think 5 to be precise) in last 20 years in India. In light of this, would it be relevant to have a topic devoted to this scarce phenomenon of "bride burning" which has a potential to mislead any reader about the actual state of affairs in modern India.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hparmar (talk • contribs).
No, I saw horrible cases in Bangladesh, first hand. My mother has pictures. More importantly it was something people tried to hide and no one talked about. There is no such thing as modern India. They still operate on a caste system.
And CLEARLY this ritual is reflected in the laws, and well documented by noted periodicals (TIME MAGAZINE)!67.169.101.187 20:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Is "bride burning" a Hoax

message: I will remove the redirection from Dowry death article in 2 days time and write dowry death article in detail. Please let me know your views about this.Newageindian 15:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Independent Dowry death article

message: The paragraph added by 80.192.138.251 in this diff is another POv piece and has been deleted.--Cailil 18:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another POV statement 

message: i totally object to referring to Save Family Foundation`s claims on the number of dowry deaths and/or bride burning. their claims are unsubstantiated and at best rash estimation. if they have arrived at the number by a research or through authorities, which i doubt,why there no citation for that?
also, there has to be a mention of how hinduism treats its women, about the way women are told to be inferior, treatment of widows and women who don`t have sons or are childless. female baby killing, selective abortion, deep seated discrimination against women in family and also how the corrupt tradition of dowry affects women`s self-esteem. all these factors contribute to bride burning and have to be addressed.
Ghimirebhumika 20:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  objection on referring the Save Family Foundation`s claims 

message: I'm not able to find a reference for Time magazine saying: "dowry deaths in India increased from around 400 a year in the early 1980s to around 5,800 a year by the middle of the 1990s"
I was able to source this: "as many as 25,000 brides are brutally killed each year because of disputes over dowries" to Time Magazine, Feb 27th 2001 in 'Indian Society Needs To Change' by Maseeh Rahman .  I've changed the section to reflect what I can source.  If anybody can source the previous statement please re-add it.--Cailil  talk 21:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made a number of changes here.  All but one piece is now sourced.  Every link I found violating WP:EL was removed.  Everything violating WP:NPOV and WP:NOR was removed.  Everything I could source was sourced.  I've removed the POV and UNVERIFIED tags.  I'm going to send this page for peer review as soon as I can.  If anyone wants to add to this article please only use reliable sources and verified information.--Cailil  talk 13:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually Newageindian you are misrepresenting WP:NPOV.  In this case I'm not sure whether that interview should have been given the prominence that it had (being in the lead paragraph) but it should probably be in the article somewhere - Time magazine is highly notable.  NPOV states that all significant published points of view should be included in articles - not that sources should be neutral.  The media bias you assert is your opinion unless there are third party, reliable, non-trivial sources that state the Time article was biased.  Even then it may still be notable enough for inclusion somewhere since it was published by Time.  If you have a further query bring it to WP:RS/N--Cailil  talk 00:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: After a lot of digging I finally found the first reference, saying "dowry deaths in India increased from around 400 a year in the early 1980s to around 5,800 a year by the middle of the 1990s."  I've re-added this piece as it contextualizes the CNN report--Cailil  talk 16:51, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time Magazine reference 

message: Bride burning is a subset of dowry deaths. Dowry deaths can happen due to suicides (by hanging, by fire etc) or murders(poisoning, stabbing, hitting etc). This article is extremely confusing and is still in disputed state, when we equates with dowry deaths with bride burning. Someone had redirected Dowry death article to Bride burning adding to all confusion.
I removed the redirection of Dowry death article to [Bride burning]] and created an independent article on Dowry death. Please contribute to that article. We can keep the Bride burning article as it is. Newageindian 12:37, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is definitely a subset of the dowry death article since there is no other reason for bride burning except dowry. In essence both these articles need to be a single section of the article on Dowry-Andy anno (talk) 06:28, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Independent Article on Dowry Death

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 17:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: The intro of this article spends a lot of time saying what bride burning is not, but not what it actually is?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.153.190 (talk) 13:05, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is bride burning, and why is it done? 

message: As a part of my Poverty, Justice and Human Capabilities minor at Rice University, I'm required to find and edit a page that concerns class discussion material, which, as you can probably assume, often centers around human rights issues in underdeveloped countries. For this assignment, I chose bride burning, a topic that is both grotesque and fascinating and especially deserves more worldwide attention. 
In order to combat such the global ignorance surrounding this topic (as many of you commenting are aware, considering your ongoing conversation), I chose this topic so that even one person can read, learn and attempt to eradicate bride burning all over the world. Unfortunately, currently the article is extremely limited, with only an introduction and one section on bride burning in South Asia and a subsection on India and Pakistan each. There is no history section (which should describe what exactly is bride burning and why it came to be prevalent in modern society), no mention of it existing in other parts of the world and no discussion on what is being done to combat the practice. Each of these sections are necessary to understand the full gravity of what bride burning does to women, their families and the cultures of affected nations. Over the course of the semester, I will take advantage of the many resources available on this tabooed subject in order to expand and ultimately reform readers' thoughts on bride burning.
There are many concerns already addressed and possibly resolved on this talk page, but for those that have not been fully discussed or edited within the page (for example: is the definition of what bride burning actually is adequately communicated?), I plan on including them in my revision. However, most of talk has been extremely passionately, thus resulting in almost immediate revision and expansion. I would be happy to work with more of you on the subject, especially in receiving advice or criticism, as I work on the article. One of my main concerns is remaining neutral on this type of subject, so I'd love help with that, as well as many source recommendations as I can get.
Thank you in advance for helping and being patient with me as I go through the dramatic revision of this article. 
Ellyhutch (talk) 00:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Editing the bride burning article for a school assignment

message: Gendercide may be a useful term, the targeting of one sex but not the other, killing men and boys instead of women and girls, or wives and brides, female infanticide, etc.
however, to act as if it were a form of genocide is absurd, including, labeling it as form of extermination, as does Mary Anne Warren.  genocide is the deliberate extermination of a entire group of people or the deliberate attempt to do so.
killing brides and wives in the attempt to get more money from the families and murdering babies just because they are girl are terrible thing, of course.  but they are not parts of an attempt to exterminate women.
and using the word "exterminate" as a synonym for kill or murder is a travesty.
76.19.63.222 (talk) 20:15, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gendercide vs. genocide