Talk:Voseo

message: This needs more research, but it should be noted that among the distinctions between countries, some countries use both.  My understanding is that in some parts of the Spanish-speaking world, vos is condescending rather than familiar, whereas in other countries this is obviously not the case.
In Costa Rica vos is moslty used and tu is usualy regarded as being "imported". Kinds that watch a lot of Discovery Kids (like mine) use tu, at least for now. In Guatemala and El Salvador you might find a little more of tu and a little less of vos. --65.182.16.84 23:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Differences among countries

message: European Portuguese "você" and Spanish "usted" are not semantically equivalent. The deferential form of 2nd person address, both in Brazil and in Portugal, is actually "o senhor/a senhora"
rather than "você". "Você" is normally used in Portugal to address someone who is socially equal, but whom you don't know very well. Unlike Spanish "usted", I believe "você" would not be used for example to address the president of the Portuguese republic or any other public authority. Besides, I think the comparison with Brazilian Portuguese is inadequate in the sense that, unlike  "vos" in Spanish, "você" is a standard Portuguese pronoun which simply happens to have acquired a different semantic value in Brazil replacing informal "tu" (see the T-V distinction article for further information on Portuguese and Brazilian usage). 161.24.19.82 17:00, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In Argentina vos is a standard pronoun, and since 2001 Real Academia Española uses the Argentinian conjugations in its web page. See for example the conjugation of mover. HaŋaRoa (talk) 20:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Você (Portuguese) vs Usted (Spanish)

message: There are no sources on this page to support entries. Elhombre72 10:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are now. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 11:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, now you need ones that weren't written by English-Only speakers.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.210.97.28 (talk) 03:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Of course something this racist had to be written by a Costa Rican. I'd like to remind you that Costa Rica also lacks these so-called opportunities and education the rest of us in Central America do, Costa Rica isn't any better than the rest of the region. These edits were made by me, an educated Honduran who knows the difference between tú and tu. By the way, it's perception from someone than actual facts, maybe you shouldn't be making edits in an English Wikipedia article if you can't speak English properly. I'll be adding back my edits and I'll link a proper source this time. You should've also checked my talk tab in this page before making such a racist assumption. I can also provide more picture proof of voseo usage throughout Honduras if it's necessary. Pbshepherd (talk) 23:55, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: No Sources

message: In the current movie El Laberinto del Fauno, set in Spain in 1944, a faun addresses someone with various laudatory titles (alteza and whatnot) and with the pronoun vos. Is this a throwback to the medieval use of vos as a formal pronoun? If so, is that common in fairy tales in Spain? Maybe that should be mentioned in the article.
—RuakhTALK 06:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  El Laberinto del Fauno 

message: I removed certain references to the use of "tu" in Central America. "Vos" and "tu" are both informal and none is more formal or less formal than the other, or used when talking to kids or the like. Nowdays some kids (like my own!) talk of "tu" because that's what they get form Discovery Kids in spanish here in Costa Rica. Some people speak of "tu" when talking with foreigners (Colombians, Mexicans, people form the US that learned spanish with "tu", etc.). I would only use "tu" to address people whose native language is not spanish and that get confused: otherwise I just can´t do it (I'm too much of a vos guy and I guess when we were kids we didn´t like people that talked of "tu" too much, specialy costarricans that lived in México or Spain and came speaking "mexican" or "castilian"  and not "costarrican") I usualy talk to my little girl of "vos" and she responds with "tu", "tu que quierés papito" (what do you want dady) I also worked a lot with people from the rest of Central America and I´ve been plenty of times to Guatemala and El Salvador. There´s also a lot of nicaraguans here in Costa Rica. I guess people get confused when we play around with "tu" and "vos".cgl--65.182.16.84 23:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: esto es sólo para usted, señor "User:65.182.16.84|65.182.16.84]] 23:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Don't confuse formal/informal with respect/familiarity (sometime called T-V distinction). Formal/informal contrasts the use in print or in a speech with a normal casual spoken form. Respect/familiarity contrasts the use with older people or strangers with the use with family and friends. Vos and tú are both familiar. In Argentina vos is both formal and informal and in Chile it's only informal. The Chilean formal and familiar form would be tú. HaŋaRoa (talk) 20:40, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed "tu" less formal than "vos" mistake 

message: :Image:Fsln02logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Fsln02logo.jpg

message: Mexico is one country where vos straight up does not exist.  I have travelled all over the country and have never once heard it.  It supposedly exists in Chiapas but everyone I have ever met in Chiapas uses tu.  Can anyone actually come up with documented proof of people using vos in Chiapas?  If not Mexico should be recolored red on the map.
:Mexico should be recolored, vos is certainly used in Chiapas, maybe it's more common near the frontier with Guatemala (Comitán, etc), check out this video made in Chiapas (mind the extensive use of profanity...) "La puteada chiapaneca"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.203.69.129 (talk) 06:16, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: I have NEVER heard vos used in Chiapas

message: Peru* 
Cuba* 
* The use of vos is disappearing, in Cuba it is heard in some region in the east, in Peru, some elderly people still use vos, but it has gotten out of use among the younger population.
''
In Peru, some elderly people....???
In all my experience living 25 years in Peru I have never seen this. It actually is the contrary. SOME, (very few) young people who want to imitate argentinians football players or so use the word "vos" but it is frowned upon by elderly people. The use is not common though and it is seen with scorn by the majority.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.160.8.67 (talk) 00:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this really true??

message: There are only three Spanish speaking countries where there is no voseo, and Spain is one of them.  would be much more appropriate.
200.111.44.186 (talk) 18:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. The template was reinserted on November 2009 . I removed it again today. HaŋaRoa (talk) 20:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Then let me add the aforementioned template --Fandelasketchup (talk) 21:04, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  I removed the <nowiki>{{WikiProject Spain}}</nowiki> template 

message: This source gives the following classification:
# Places in which voseo is more common than tuteo:  Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Chiapas, part of Tabasco.
# Places in which tuteo and voseo compete: Chile, parts of Bolivia, Ecuador, the far north and extreme south of Peru, parts of Venezuela and Colombia, and the interior of eastern Cuba.
# Places in which only tuteo is present: part of Bolivia, most of Peru, parts of Colombia and Venezuela, most of Mexico, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, and most of Cuba.
Currently, the geographical information in the article is not well sourced. Perhaps someone can amend it to reflect what is given in this source. 128.32.238.145 (talk) 08:34, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion of a source for countries in which voseo is used 

message: On the color map, Chile is marked as a country where "vos" is "predominant." But, at least in my experience, this is not the case, and "tu" is much more common there.  I recently spent about a month and a half traveling through Chile, and the only time I heard anything related to "vos" used was as an implied pronoun in "como estai?"  Other than that, "tu" seemed to be the exclusive form.  I spoke with several Chileans about this, and they all told me that "vos" is not commonly used there, much less the "predominant" form.  A couple of them told me that two or three generations ago it was used a lot more, but now only rarely.  So I think the article and map should be changed. It seems that now-a-days in Chile "tu" is much more common that "vos."  And "vos" is more a vestigial form now, used in phrases like "como estai?" 190.42.68.173 (talk) 17:15, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the article mentions that in Chile, the use of pronominal "vos" (pronounced as /voh/) is quite restricted, but that the use of verbal voseo is actually quite widepread in the spoken language. Marxolang (talk) 13:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Just because you haven't heard it, doesn't mean that others don't use it. Chile has a population of over 16 million. Also note that the use of the pronoun "vos" in Chile is much more related to social stratifications than to regionalisms. Some educated circles may avoid the pronominal use altogether, although the verbal voseo is still quite common in the spoken language. Oh, and next time please use a signature. ;-) saludos Marxolang (talk) 07:18, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chile 

message: The last item in the Rio de la Plata column is "No te preocupés," with an accent mark on the last "e."  But for consistency with the generalization stated in the text (as well as Academia website), it shouldn't have the accent right?  ("No te preocupes.")
:It's corrected now. Thanks! ;-) Marxolang (talk) 07:20, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typo in the subjunctive table? 

message: I'm not sure this article got it exactly right. Though it's important to emphasize that "vos" has variations across Latin American countries, from what I understand, the correct usage of "vos" is with the "eis" endings--comisteis, dormisteis, hablasteis. In fact, I believe the variations have their origin in this use. It may be worth considering another source, particularly this noteworthy one: http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=vos . 
I also take issue with the statement that Guatemala is a place where the predominant use is not "vos." I think this is incorrect, from experience. Men, for instance, never refer to one another in "tu," since it's a sign of snobbery and being gay (no joke), even at work or professional places. That said, "usted" is widely in use as well.
Please take this with a grain of salt, but it's worth mentioning.
:-)
70.72.44.213 (talk) 22:01, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: -)
70.72.45.98 (talk) 23:56, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vos 

message: I've been reverting House1090 edits because the sources in the article (specially from Pan-Hispanic Dictionary of Doubts) states that it coexists with tuteo (in a three-tiered system: usted, tú, vos), unlike Nicaragua and Costa Rica where tuteo doesn´t exist in spoken language, but in written. Even the sources that House1090 has put in the article, also states that too.
*First source:
*Second source:
This source is a study about Honduran and Salvadorian people in Western U.S. from first to third generations, but it also states that tuteo occurs (in a lesser way, but it occurs) in the spoken Spanish language of the Salvadorian people studied.
*Third source:
* :"El español que se habla en El Salvador y su importancia para la dialectología hispanoamericana" really?,
I doubt that El Salvador is a place to use as a reference of the castillian language!, and please, here is a talk place, not to dump, copy-paste bunch of articles-text...
**Royal Spanish Academy : Pan-Hispanic Dictionary of Doubts
 ★ Nacho ★   (Contact me) ★  02:56, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: See my Talk page for reply, might just place it here. House1090 (talk) 03:05, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Voseo'' in El Salvador 

message: Hello, I'm new here, I think this information can be useful
The English form of the pronoun "vos" would be the "you" now used throughout the English-speaking domain, as opposed to the archaic "thou" now extinct, that would be equivalent to the word "tú"
I think it is important information to add to this article
See: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
English language & usage
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/9780/did-english-ever-have-a-formal-version-of-you
--Wikifernand (talk) 02:38, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "tú/vos" as the english "thou/you" 

message: I removed the entirety of a comment because it was written by someone who very clearly does not know the Spanish language. It was a completely clueless opinion by someone ignorant and was published (with a vulgar profanity printed in capital, to boot) just because anyone can write anything on Wikipedia. 
In short: the commentator wrote that a perfectly correct conjugation of the verb To Be, in the imperative, was wrong and suggested some atrocious non existent alternatives that no Spanish speaker would ever accept as possible.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.18.11.181 (talk) 03:33, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: I removed an entire section or content item in this talk section

message: Should we discuss the absence of a separate voseo form for the possessive pronoun (e.g., Pedí aquí tu fría on the billboard)? Peter Chastain [¡hablá!] 17:39, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand what exactly is to be discussed. --Jotamar (talk) 00:07, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: As someone who was new to voseo but aware of its historical roots in the second person plural, I would have expected grammatical "agreement" to dictate a possessive pronoun based on vos-, and was surprised that this does not exist. Perhaps you are right—in the interest of keeping it simple, maybe there is nothing to discuss. On the other hand, the historical reasons for that might be interesting. Peter Chastain [¡hablá!] 20:04, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: As a Sociolinguistics buff, I find it obvious that modern voseo arose from a koiné dialect that included both "Tú" dialects and "Vos" dialects. However I don't remember any specific research about the point. --Jotamar (talk) 22:10, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possessive pronoun ''tu'' 

message: Hi  in the section Countries where voseo occurs in some areas you added "and historically as an official language" for the Philippines. Firstly, voseo is not a language, much less an official language; then you added two sources, none of which mentions voseo (or tuteo, for that matter) at all. Yes, they are samples of work in which the phenomenon occurs, but that is not how sources are used. Could you please explain? , perhaps you might want to weigh in? Rui Gabriel Correia (talk) 11:14, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with voseo other than very occasionally hearing it. — kwami (talk) 00:31, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I should've been more precise in that section by referring back to the Spanish language instead of leaving it up to the reader's assumptions. My intention was solely to correct the previous and also unsourced claim that tuteo had been dominant in the Philippines between 1821 and 1946, and substantiating the correction with the only sources currently at my disposal. That being said, seeing that I had used these sources incorrectly, and how the previous claim similarly couldn't be backed up, it might then be better to remove all non-literary mentions of the Philippines in the article until such sources supporting either claim are available. What do you both think? --Pare Mo (talk) 02:05, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Pare Mo. So, to recap, sources in which a writer uses this or that form are used for research by linguits and related scholars to arrive at theories, conclusions, etc about languages. We then can add those works by scholars as sources to substantiate statements in articles in the Wikipedia. The whole article needs to be cleaned up and written in a manner that reflects that it is about linguistics. Rui Gabriel Correia (talk) 04:12, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mention of ''voseo'' in sources added 

message: I'm a Honduran born and raised in Honduras, born in San Pedro Sula and lived most of my life in Tegucigalpa. I can assure everyone here that there's no such thing as a 3-tier system here, tú is virtually never used in everyday life here. Not only that, but the source used to say tuteo is used in Honduras is biased. The study referenced was made with Hondurans living in the United States, and the study itself states that the Hondurans interviewed admitted to only using tuteo so they wouldn't stand out to their Mexican peers in their communities over there. I can provide screenshots of advertisements and real life pictures of billboards using voseo in Honduras, but I'd like to see this error fixed and the biased resource taken off. We only use voseo and usted in Honduras.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2803:4600:1113:1BE:14DF:D2E7:B916:6882 (talk) 01:55, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right, the source itself confirms it, I've deleted the paragraph. It's a pity though that the source is no longer present in the page. --Jotamar (talk) 10:14, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I made a wikipedia account now! I'll add a paragraph explaining how voseo actually works in Honduras, and hopefully someone can help me edit the map shown in the page since voseo is predominant in Honduras, and also add a picture I took at a mall here. I'd add it myself but this is my first time editing a Wikipedia article and I wouldn't want to mess up the formatting by accident. The picture was taken at City Mall, in Tegucigalpa, Honduras. Pbshepherd (talk)
  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pbshepherd (talk • contribs) 16:17, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voseo usage in Honduras