Talk:Cyrus Griffin

message: Some people consider the Presidents of the Congress to be the predecessors of the Presidents of the United States under the present Constitution.  Therefore a link should be noted... -- EmperorBMA / ブリイアン 04:22, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: But they're wrong. They're distracted by the "bright shiny object" and can't see that there's no continuity of position, because they are fascinated by the superficial resemblance of name. There should be no link that implies succession of a relatively unimportant legislative position by an important executive position. - Nunh-huh 04:25, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagreee, since the power of the Congress was transmuted into the current constitution as it is today by that very same assembly. -- EmperorBMA / ブリイアン 04:26, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Then that's a point of view (a wrong one, but a point of view). Put it in the article if you must, but don't force that point of view onto us by putting it in a succession box. - Nunh-huh 04:28, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: Sorry, but NH is correct.  The connection would be more likely to be from President in Congress Assembled to Speaker of the House.  RickK | Talk 04:27, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Very well, nevertheless the link showing the transition should be mentioned since the positions cover a similar title and some historians prefer to consider the Articles of Confederation's presidents the true first 10 presidents. -- EmperorBMA / ブリイアン 04:30, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Similar title, completely different responsibilities. What "historians" would they be? - Nunh-huh 04:31, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite a few actually complain that history books don't recognize that the first 10 Congress Presidents were leaders of the United States at one point. -- EmperorBMA / ブリイアン 04:32, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Name them in the article and attribute that viewpoint to them then, don't oversimplify by sticking it in a box. It would be truer to say Cyrus Griffin was succeeded in his powers by Frederick Augustus Conrad Muhlenberg, 1st Speaker of the House and John Langdon, first president pro tempore of the Senate than it is to say he was succeeded by George Washington. - Nunh-huh 04:36, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: Very well remove then, I just thought it would be useful to show the transition...  -- EmperorBMA / ブリイアン 04:38, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be if there WERE a transition. We really shouldn't mislead people into thinking George Washington succeeded Cyrus Griffin: I think the current box isn't anything anyone would disagree with. - Nunh-huh 04:42, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I just want to make sure we cover all the possible angles for this information...  I have undone my change at George Washington as well. -- EmperorBMA / ブリイアン 04:44, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: It is specious to label Cyrus Griffin as a President of the Continental Congress.  Although you have changed my edits of Cyrus Griffin  back to a Continental Congress President, perhaps you can leave this post on the talk page to help your readers discern which listing - President of the Continental Congress or President of the United States in Congress Assembled is correct.  A brief case that the Continental Congress expired with the ratification of the Articles of Confederation and the offices had significant differences is as follows: 
Although the Articles of Confederation was passed by the U.S. Continental Congress on November 15th, 1777, this Constitution of 1777 required the unanimous  ratification by all the 13 states.   Maryland was the last state to adopt the Articles of Confederation, completing its ratification on February 2, 1781. On February 22, 1781, it was unanimously resolved by Congress that:
The delegates of Maryland having taken their seats in Congress with powers to sign the Articles of Confederation: "Ordered, That Thursday next [March 1, 1781] be assigned for compleating the Confederation; and that a committee of three be appointed, to consider and report a mode for announcing the same to the public: the members, [Mr. George] Walton, Mr. [James] Madison, Mr. [John] Mathews."
The March 1st, 1781, enacted Constitution of 1777 provided for a unicameral governing body called the United States in Congress Assembled (USCA) to govern the United States of America.  The USCA was charged " .. to appoint one of their members to preside, provided that no person be allowed to serve in the office of president more than one year in any term of three years." 
On March 2nd, 1781, the Delegates, who were duly elected after each State had ratified the Articles of Confederation, convened in Philadelphia as the United States in Congress Assembled with Samuel Huntington presiding as the first USCA President.  Additionally, George Washington continued to serve as General and Commander-in-Chief of the United States Continental Army. 
The Constitution of 1777 Presidency, although similar to its predecessor, was a different and weaker office then that of the U.S. Continental Congress Presidency.
For instance, the Continental Congress Presidents, who served from September 5, 1774 to February 28, 1781, presided over a government that could enact legislation binding all 13 States with only a seven state quorum as opposed to the nine state minimum required by the Constitution of 1777. Additionally, Continental Congress Presidents, who decided what legislation came before Congress, often found themselves as the sole vote for their state,  giving them a 1/7th to 1/13th vote over crucial legislation, appointments, judicial decisions, and even military orders enacted during the Revolutionary War.  After March 1, 1781, the Constitution of 1777 mandated that two or more delegates must be present from each state for that delegation to be marked present and be eligible to vote in the new USCA government.   Therefore, on March 2nd, 1781, the first act of the USCA was to disqualify both New Hampshire and Rhode Island from voting in the new assembly because they each had only one delegate present.
On May 4, 1781, to further weaken presidential powers, Congress passed the "Rules for conducting business in the United States in Congress assembled." that stripped the President of his power to control the congressional agenda which, was a tactic that the presiding officers (especially Henry Laurens) had expertly wielded as Continental Congress Presidents. These new USCA rules even went so far as to eliminate the President's prerogative to continue the debate, before a second to the motion was brought to the floor.
"Rule 10. When a motion is made and seconded it shall be repeated by the President or If he or any other member desire being in writing it shall be delivered to the President in writing and read aloud at the table before it, shall be debated."
There are numerous other examples on the differences between the two offices that range from the USCA's Committee of the States experiment to govern the USA by a "Board of Directors" without the USCA President at its head to John Hanson's success in championing the congressional resolution that moved the bulk of his presidential correspondence duties to USCA Secretary Charles Thomson. Moreover, USCA Foreign Secretaries Robert R. Livingston and John Jay took over most of the U.S. Presidential duties of entertaining foreign diplomats and dignitaries under the Articles of Confederation government.
Cyrus Griffin  served as the President of the United States in Congress Assembled and not as President of the Continental Congress.  To view the primary sources supporting this fact go to http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-c_Pu5PAiP_g/UOX0C4AiqhI/AAAAAAAADe0/tvVawnkqk5M/s1600/AA+AC.jpg and for documents signed by Cyrus Griffin  as President of the United States in Congress Assembled please go here -- www.cyrusgriffin.com --Stas.klos (talk) 14:58, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  President of the United States in Congress Assembled 

message: Did George Washington himself consider Cyrus Griffin as technically the first U.S. President? I ask because the History Channel's America: Fact or Fiction? said so. --173.51.221.24 (talk) 19:47, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Alas, beyond the title of the channel, there's not much history there, and you're probably better off ignoring them, unless you're particularly interested in "Bible Secrets", Cajun Pawn Stars, and "Swamp Beasts" unknown  to actual science. - Nunh-huh 04:32, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: First "''true''" president of the united states?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Although there are more than three dozen entries for people with the Griffin surname, including his brother Samuel, there is no entry for Cyrus Griffin, only a mention of a Griffin whose first name is illegible.Jweaver28 (talk) 18:27, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  missing in 1787 Virginia tax census