Talk:Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)

message: The Free Church of Scotland endured a major division in 1900 and and a minor division in 2000.
In fact, the proportion of ministers adhering to the minority was much GREATER in 2000 than in 1900.
: Fair point.
:: Perhaps the word "major" is at fault here.  The impact of the division of 1900 was major and the impact of the division of 2000 was minor.  Or is it too early to tell? -- 41.177.9.118 (talk) 12:42, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the "Disputed" tag because this phrase no longer occurs in the article. -- leuce (talk) 13:30, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed Statistics 1

message: They are less than 20% of the ministerial strength of the pre-2000 Free Church of Scotland...
This is out of accordance with the figures in the Yearbook of the Free Church of Scotland and the Yearbook of the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing),  both of which list the ministers of each denomination for independent verification.  They show the minority to be OVER 20% of the pre-2000 Free Church of Scotland.
: The objection is meaningless, and fails to compare like with like.
:: The objection does compare like with like. The books may be directly compared.
::: And here is an example of what I talk about below please sign-in and sign your contribs with four "~" signs. I had to read the above several times to work itg out. Wilmot1
:::: And don't forget to indent replies :-) -- 41.177.9.118 (talk) 12:50, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Reply indented and repeated -- comparison of the yearbooks of the respective bodies immediately post-2000 allows like for like statistics to be compared.Appin~enwiki (talk) 11:03, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed Statistics 2

message: It professes to continue the work of the Free Church of Scotland (post 1900), which claims to continue the work of the Free Church of Scotland (1843-1900).
This is not accurate: the post-1900 Free Church does not claim to "continue the work of" the 1843-1900 body. It claims to be the same as the earlier body, with no distinction between the two. This was upheld by the Scottish courts, and Wikipedia uses the term "Free Church of Scotland" to link to the post-1900 page in the ReligionScotland template. In fact, there isn't another group to dispute the title of "Free Church of Scotland"... the other group merged with the United Presbyterian Church of Scotland and now calls itself the United Free Church of Scotland. Per this stuff, I've removed the reference to the pre-1900 group, and linked "Free Church of Scotland" directly to the post-1900 page. -- MrNerdHair (talk) 15:03, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Header references to pre-1900 Free Church 

message: The quotation from Johnston Mackay to the effect that 'An organisation called the Free Church Defence Association believed that "it was wrong not to put Professor Macleod on trial in the General Assembly and that the majority has therefore departed from the principle that allegations of misconduct must be investigated not by a Committee of the General Assembly but by the whole General Assembly."' is a correct quotation which is wrong in fact.  That is ascribing to the Free Church Defence Association a view which it did not hold. The view of the Free Church Defence Association was that it was right that the appropriate Committee should investigate, but that only a court of the Church, as distinct from a Committee of the Church, could reach a judicial finding on a judicial matter. See When Justice Failed in Church and State.  The FCDA view is baased on the Form of Process  which dates from 1707 and has governed the handling of allegations and court cases in the Church of Scotland and its descendants since then.  Johnston Mackay's statement therefore misrepresents the Free Church Defence Association argument and ascribes to them a view which would be directly opposed to the Form of Process. Appin~enwiki (talk) 10:57, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, though can you give the page number and indicate the passage in "When Justice Failed in Church and State", as noted in my edit summary reverting your changes. If this does support what you are saying, by all means add the material but either remove the Mackay quote if it is entirely contradicted or at the very least don't alter it or reference your material with Mackay's. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:59, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no desire to denigrate Johnston Mackay or remove his quote as A reference.  However he is simply not totally correct.  There is more than one reference in "When Justice Failed" but the most succinct is that in Endnote 2 to Chapter 1 which reads "2 The Training of the Ministry Committee (TOM) is an Assembly Committee which, inter alia, has responsibility for determining whether complaints of heresy or immorality against a Professor should be processed through the Church courts." Page 20 of the online edition http://www.freechurchcontinuing.org/images/books/pdf/when-justice-failed.pdfAppin~enwiki (talk) 16:40, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, if Mackay has made an error best to replace it with a citation which has matters explained correctly. Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:06, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Johnston Mackay quote

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified