Talk:Caning of Michael Fay

message: Huge amounts of bias. i replaced all reference to the 'yew regime' with the phrase 'Singapore Government', and removed the word dictator.
:article vandalized again with the usual 'yew regime' phrases showing up, reverted to prior version before the vandalism. --R4ge 18:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This section was a speculative tangent. --Twinxor 21:58, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:POV|POV]]

message: I just wanted to add here that sometime in the late 1980s/early 1990s Fay lived with his father (?) in Naperville, Illinois. I so happen to have his freshman yearbook photograph - in the same book as my own! --JohnDBuell 01:19, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Other places of residence

message: The section "Aftermath" quotes: The Michael Fay incident was followed by another incident where a Filipino maid named Flor Contemplacion was convicted of the murder of her employer's son and another maid and subsequently executed. The case sparked outrage in the Philippines and highlighted the plight of Filipinos working in Singapore. Other than being in Singapore, how is this 'aftermath' of this incident? --Achromatic 23:37, 26 Jan 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed and removed. --Vsion 23:47, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Aftermath

message: I don't remember anyone calling for an attack on the Singapore embassy.  Even if one nutjobs talk radio guy did say such a thing, that hardly makes it "the American media."  This needs to get cited, or removed. 65.171.232.28 14:13, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed that sentence; the rest of the section seems to be valid, but I added a "unreferenced" tag. --Vsion 15:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  American media calls for attacks on embassy 

message: Unfortunately I am in a medium sized city in Taiwan, but if anyone is still a university student with access to a large university library, could that person search for the references that I listed and fill in the source needed footnotes?  I would have done it if I were living in Berkeley. Allentchang 13:42, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References and cited sources

message: Why on earth is there a link to Van Tuong Nguyen on this page? Van Nguyen shares no similarities with Michael Fay, other than the fact that they were both arrested in Singapore. I would remove the link, but I'd rather bring up the issue here first to see what others' opinions are.
Nguyen was arrested and executed for drug smuggling, as opposed to Fay, who was arrested and caned for vandalism. Unless we're going to provide a link to every foreigner who has been caned/executed in Singapore, the Van Nguyen link doesn't belong. 61.68.35.146 04:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: just remove it. Uucp 14:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Van Nguyen]] link? 

message: If it helps Michael Fay lived on the 21st floor of Regency Park Condo on nathan road, and led police there following his arrest (in which 25 police officers arrived at the Singapore American School). police found road signs and a taxi "not for hire" sign in his bedroom. My source is a book called “Singapore – The State and the culture of excess” by Souchou Yao. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.186.9.1 (talk) 10:01, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Address 

message: This does not sound like an encyclopedic entry, specifically the part where it says, "The paper printed this information. How can they not be facts if the newspaper printed it? It's the official paper of the government." Or something to that effect.
I believe a lot of this article should be re-edited, if not just chalked up and rewritten entirely. Is there anyone with a definite wealth of information on this topic?  --lepetiterobot 13:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: there is a POV-y editor who seems to want to use the page to argue that Fay was the victim of a massive Singaporean conspiracy, or something. I have reverted the edits, again. Uucp 14:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Could it have been anything other than a massive conspiracy?  An agreement among hundreds if not thousands to torture him, to disregard the virtual certainty of innocence, that he was brutally coerced into confessing, that he was tortured as punishment for a crime like spraypainting?  (See my entry under "coerced".)--Johnm307 (talk) 15:43, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you being satirical? -- Alarics (talk) 20:42, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, just being literal.Johnm307 (talk) 12:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV and tone 

message: Part of the article says "Under what some might regard as the misapplication of the 1966 Singapore Vandalism Act, which was originally passed to curb the spread of communist graffiti in Singapore and which specifically covered vandalism of government buildings,".
Is that not a form of weasel wording?  Quite aside from that, the article on the Act (follow the link on this article), while referring to public buildings goes onto say "Furthermore, any damages to private property are illegal under the Act without the written consent of the owner or occupier."  Obviously, different authors have written the two parts I have quoted, but I still wonder whether this article requires reconsideration.Informed Owl (talk) 16:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Weasel word]]s?

message: This person is really notable due to canning incident in Singapore happened in 1993-94. This was the worst ever happened in Singapore history. ApprenticeFan talk contribs 02:48, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: He was practically asking for it! {Chris Henniker (talk) 03:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Practically asking for it?  They knew that he was partially reponsible for a huge vandalism spree.  He could have gotten a much longer sentence in New York City.  I'm mostly surprised that Bill Clinton got involved.  So he got whacked with a stick, on the buttocks, and got a few months in jail.    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:DA8:D800:107:8CC:1BCC:A648:9716 (talk) 08:27, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that this talk page, like all WP article talk pages, is meant for discussing how the article might be improved, not for exchanging editors' personal opinions about the case. -- Alarics (talk) 10:35, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable enough 

message: "The Singaporean government pointed out that Singaporeans who break the law faced the same punishments as Fay, and suggested that the United States should pay more attention to its domestic problems, such as American law and order, rather than telling other countries what to do.[citation needed]" --- this line seems to have been put in by an editor at some point to make a WP:POINT and express some political view about the US. Unless it gets a citation, with them actually saying it, I'm removing it. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 13:23, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Text reworked for greater precision, and citations duly added. -- Alarics (talk) 16:09, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Odd uncited line 

message: The third paragraph in this section seems to be out of date. There's a caning video on (I think) Live Leak which clearly shows how much damage is done from a small number of strokes. Indeed the first is arguably the most significant. So the suggestion that the low number of strokes inflicted would have allowed for the guy to sit etc., is dubious at best. I suspect the real reason not much damage was done was that they went very easy on him for political reasons.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.49.59.19 (talk) 22:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aftermath 

message: I propose that this article be moved to "The whipping of Michael P. Fay" the individual has no standalone notability. 117.195.83.65 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 15:08, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. There is no need for any such change. He is notable by virtue of the immense barrage of press publicity the case engendered. -- Alarics (talk) 15:48, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is the canning that is notable, not the individual. 117.220.250.87 (talk) 07:56, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

text: As admitted by Alarics, the case is notable, not Fay. 117.220.250.87 (talk) 07:59, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the distinction you are making is a meaningful one in this context. Anyway it is not the punishment itself that was notable but the fuss made of it, i.e. the whole case and all the diplomatic and media ructions that surrounded it. Fay was obviouisly the pivotal figure  and his is the name by which the case became known. The article title should stay as it is. -- Alarics (talk) 08:10, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

text: What one achieves is a correctly titled article, no more and no less. Redirects are not an issue. Fiddle Faddle 11:35, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, how about "The caning of Michael P. Fay"? Timtrentl? 117.195.85.255 (talk) 15:33, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  As someone who was actually paying attention to the case back then, it was not only the caning that was notable, but also the various factors before and after that. There was also the debate whether vandalism and theft of public property warranted punishment, the clash of culture values (where such acts might not have been so heavily punished if he was caught back home). In some way we could compare this to Edward Snowden, who is similarly notable for only one infamous act, yet the notability is greater for the various debates his actions brought to the table, hence that article carries his name by itself least it be split into different topics. Zhanzhao (talk) 04:06, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move 

message: I propose this article be moved to "The caning of Michael P. Fay" 59.94.210.197 (talk) 02:17, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: New proposal

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The links are all fringe websites that don't seem to like global connectivity, racial diversity, or any outcome that isn't an all out race war.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/2603:6010:f00:3c:75c9:5aef:88c:b704 (talk) 02:04, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all clear what you are talking about. Please explain. -- Alarics (talk) 17:03, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Response: Public Reaction, 2nd paragraph