Talk:Defender (association football)

message: All the minor positions could be merged into the four main positions. Goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders and strikers. Ideally, all four should merge back into Football (soccer) positions as the articles are not detailed enough to warrant a split. --Dodo bird 20:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the four major positions (goalkeeper, defender, midfield, striker) should be kept, but sub-positions (such as wingback, fullback, sweeper, etc) should be merged into defenders. GillsMan 10:54, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you do merge the pages, remember that the same terms "wingback" "fullback" and "halfback" are positions in American football and rugby too.  It would be nice to keep the description general enough so that people can see the conection between the sports.  If you merge the pages make sure people who travel here from rugby or american football pages don't get confused.  --Alpharigel 00:17, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My intention is to merge the section on association football(not the full article) and add a disambiguity link at the top of the page(e.g. For the fullback position in association football, see Defender(football)) Another alternative would be to summarise the position in a sentence and add a "main article: Defender(football)" to direct users here.--Dodo bird 06:07, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. I did the merge for wingbacks, and fullbacks. And cut and paste some info from the Football (soccer) positions too. This article is still less detailed than Football (soccer) positions. --Dodo bird 15:49, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggested merge

message: "Antonio Cabrini and Paolo Maldini are considered the greatest full-backs in the history of Italian football."
That seems a little POV to me - especially considering I would opt for Giacinto Facchetti over Paolo Maldini any day. Nicander 07:56, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. It now reads: "Franz Beckenbauer, Elías Figueroa, Franco Baresi, Frank Rijkaard, are some of the best ever sweepers in football history. Paolo Montero, Marco Materazzi, Rafael Márquez and Rio Ferdinand would probably serve as the best modern-day examples". I would suggest it be changed to "Franz Beckenbauer, Elías Figueroa, Franco Baresi and Frank Rijkaard are regarded by many to be some of the best sweepers in football history". The last part isn't really relevant. Any oppositions to the idea? Mageslayer99 18:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: Please stop removing players who are listed as been the best in their positions and replacing them with your own favourite players.
82.42.115.204 removed Walter Samuel and Rio Ferdinand, and put Jamie Carragher in their place. Rio Ferdinand has been named in the FIFPro World XI (2005), the PFA Team of the Year XI (2007), is first-choice centre-back for England, and has twice as many international appearances as Carragher. Carragher is third-choice centre-back for England and hasn't won any individual awards, nor is he talked of as being better than Ferdinand except by Liverpool fans.
If you want to remove a player, then justify the removal. Personally, I think there are better examples than Walter Samuel and Carlos Puyol. Can anybody come up with a reasonable list of better players? I'd put Jaap Stam into the list. Kronix1986 03:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Diego Lugano is a good example of a centre-back. He should be in this article. Samuel is good but Diego makes for a better centre-back.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rokkafellah (talk • contribs) 03:15, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Best players" does not equal "my favourite players" 

message: To avoid what the last section claims, references to players should be used carefully. Articles in this encyclopedia need to have encyclopedic content: a neutral point of view and historical references only. It is understandable that fans want to use their favorite player as an example when explaining a role in the field, but as there are so many different tastes and opinions, the article will be edited forever, with no clear content. 
Also, references to modern teams are no good example for the purpose of the article. Things change very fast in football, and this would led to a continuous edition of the article. And just as a comment, the last version of this article was heavily biased to AC Milan.Grajales 17:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References to players should be used carefully

message: If details for each position are going ot be given (centerback, sweeper, etc.), we ought to do a better job... how is Rio considered a sweeper?  He is a centerback, period.  I'll remove him from the list of current sweepers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miles Blues (talk • contribs) 19:16, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please stop re-adding lists of the "best" players in each position, which end up actually being lists of your favourite players. For the sake of NPOV and NOR, there should be no such lists in this article. --Aqwis (talk – contributions) 16:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Player examples for each position 

message: Aren't the defenders on the sides normally known as side back? Not fullbacks? We say someone players right back, or someone plays left back! So shouldn't we refer to the position as side back?
Also I couldn't find anything mentioning an overlapping run? Should we had something about that?
Also why do we have separate pages for positions but a page with all of them in it?
Simba1409 (talk) 21:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no such position as side-back. You make a good case for there being one, but there isn't.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.68.35.2 (talk) 12:51, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fullback 

message: *Strong oppose Defender should be a disambiguation page, how could anyone interpret the soccer term as primary? 70.24.244.198 (talk) 03:22, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: It's a mistake to pronounce a sweeper as (libero). A libero is the free position in a 4 back defense; the sweeper is always placed behind a 3-back defense= italian Catenaccio. Franz Beckenbauer is a libero, Terry Butcher is a sweeper.Ramloser 15:49, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: A Sweeper is placed behind the centre-backs, with limited defending role, while a Libero is a defender with a free-role.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.70.42 (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually equating the libero role with the sweeper position is correct, as libero (meaning "free" in Italian) is the Italian term which was used to describe a sweeper in the catenaccio system, and there is no other term for the role in Italian, as it was meant to denote that it was a role occuped by a player acting as a free defender, who was not assigned a player to man–mark, and who would often sweep up play by playing behind the back–line. Players like Beckenbauer, Scirea, and Baresi revolutionised the role as man–marking became obsolete and it evolved to be a more creative and offensive minded position, with the modern libero advancing into midfield to carry the ball out or start attacking plays from the back with their passing, in addition to still holding defensive duties. This is explained in the paragraph. Best, Messirulez (talk) 14:12, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: A libero is a defender with free role. A sweeper is a defender with no free role. 188.113.95.213 (talk) 20:32, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  a sweeper is not a libero 

message: --178.235.183.165 (talk) 13:53, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aren't wing backs rather midfielders, not defenders ??? 

message: There are no sources outside Wiki using the term "Fundell-libero". I guess some Fundell just played a joke - this edit was anonymous and somehow everyone missed it.
See: (cur | prev) 10:44, 13 November 2012‎ 138.38.10.144 (talk)‎ . . (15,779 bytes) (+419)‎ . . (undo)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.123.241.176 (talk)  
:I agree; and there's nothing in the citations about sweepers becoming the most advanced forward, so it's original research or lacking citations if nothing else. I'll take it out. Meesher (talk) 14:51, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Fundell-Libero" does not exist 

message: The article is confusing when it discusses centre-halfs/halves.  I was hoping to get some definition from the article, because I am confused, too, but I didn't. 67.170.238.175 (talk) 05:19, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Centre Back 

message: What about the advanced center-back?  An advanced center-back (let's call it ACB in this talk page for short) is a CB who goes past his back line for various reasons.  Teams like Real Madrid and Barcelona have used such a CB/defensive midfielder hybrid in such formations as the 3-1-4-2.  Here's an article about it:.  Maybe we should create a fifth section, along with FB, CB, SW, and WB, for the ACB.  What do you think?Thunder4231Rush (talk) 04:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advanced center-back 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I propose that Sweeper (association football) be merged with Defender (association football).
There is already a good description of Sweeper in the Defender article and it appears to be accepted that is a position under the umbrella term of Defender, so there is no need for a separate article when all other specific positions are now just sections within the DF / MF / FW articles. Crowsus (talk) 04:58, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The sweeper position doesn't require a separate article. It should be merged with defender. TomSac (talk) 12:07, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: Commonly used the terminology of "half-back" or "sweeper".  It was a key support position and responsibilities include:  
*On offense, keep the ball on the offensive should it come out of offensive area, provide corner, free kicks and throw-ins, it was usually an unguarded position... 
*On defense, it would assist the defensive line in clearing the ball from the defensive area.
In either case, it was a free roaming position, required great stamina and aggressiveness, and is one of the most regarded and taxing positions. There can be multiple half backs too, in the case of 4-2-3, but most cases it is 4-1-4. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.61.146.126 (talk) 17:17, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Or Half Back 

message: This article consistently uses world-renowned players as examples of each position (such as John Terry or Philipp Lahm), I think it is inconsistent to illustrate the wing-back position with the obscure Australian international Caitlin Foord; moreover, the female version of the game is extremely far from being on par with the male one, which means it is unlikely that people will recognise the female players (therefore the example loses its illustrative force).
I suggest illustrating the wing-back position with a well-known international such as Maicon (Brazil), Cafú (Brazil), Javier Zanetti (Argentina), Dani Alves (Brazil), or Ashley Young (England). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chesterton fence (talk • contribs) 14:28, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't remove this image; the gender gap and the lack of female footballers on certain pages is an issue which has already been brought up by certain users, and which we have been trying to address. Thanks. Messirulez (talk) 14:02, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The player that illustrates the Wing-back position is inadequate. 

message: Please stop removing the sourced information and images of female footballers; there are reliable sources, the photo includes a player who plays in this respective position, and if anything we need more female representation in association football pages on Wikipedia. Thank you.
Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 02:36, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Female Representation on Wikipedia Association Football Pages 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:09, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: There are too many. Both for the average reader to read comfortably and for me to fix. Three should be enough for anyone. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:33, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation overkill alert