Talk:Hohokam

message: Please, not to draw too fine a point, yet the Montezuma Castle National Monument was a site associated with the Sinagua tradition and not the Hohokam Culture. I have a number of pictures from the 1965 Snaketown excavation, which are public domain, that can be used if you want? However, I'm restricted from editing the title section and replacing the Montezuma Castle National Monument pic with any of the Snaketown pictures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CmacQ (talk • contribs) 03:44, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Title

message: The actual characteristics of the archaeological sequence need to be filled-in.  I could go back to textbooks and on-line research, but that takes a while.  I just wanted an overview that was actually informative and interesting.
As for expanded text in the sequence, categories including pottery, housing, as well as canal progress should be added.  --Abqwildcat 20:50, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Sequence

message: SORRY but could some one edit refferences they were mentioned in Ishmael as the people the iriquois called "the ones who dissapeard"
"The Hohokam may be the ancestors of the modern Pima and Tohono O'odham peoples in Southern Arizona, and local oral tradition maintains the link, though it cannot yet be proven archaeologically."
I've included the original text here for the purposes of discussion.  I removed the bolded (by me) word "yet" from the article.  I think its inclusion was the result of an editorial bias, and is unacceptably POV in a Wikipedia article.  If there's evidence for or against the link, I think that's far more important than just simply saying "yet" as though it's just a matter of time.  It may never be proven, or alternatively the link may be incorrectly proven false or positive.  Anyone have any evidence one way or another?  Language branch, pottery styles, even genetics?  I'd be genuinely very interested in expanding this aspect of the article.
From previous edits on this article, I understand that the ancestry link is particularly a heated subject among some members of the Pima and O'odham peoples.  I mean no disrespect in asking these questions, and would value some information on the oral tradition that is the source of this link.  We're not here to prove one thing one way or another, just to put information together in an organized way.
--ABQCat 20:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hohokam ancestry 

message: While this article is quite detailed, it has no in-line references but one. Numerous works are cited at the end of the article, but it remains unclear which part of the text is taken from which source, or if some of the text constitutes original research. The article would be much better, in my view, if authors consistently used in-line citations.--Mschiffler (talk) 20:20, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of in-line references 

message: I added a paragraph (cite 2x), but the rest of the article smells like copy/paste. ~Eric F:74.60.29.141 (talk) 07:31, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy/paste? 

message: The Hohokam inhabited the Tucson Basin from about 300 to 1400 A.D. These people lived successfully in the desert, even without the technology of today's society. Using only the natural materials from their immediate surroundings, the Hohokam were able to meet all of their survival needs. 
For shelter, they built "pit houses" by digging a pit one to two feet deep and as big around as the builder wanted with most ten to twelve feet across. Although digging was difficult in the hard caliche soil of the Tucson Basin, the Hohokam used various tools including rocks, sticks, and clay scoops. 
Poles from the trunks of cottonwood, mesquite, or willow were set in the ground around the edges of the pit with a few in the middle. Beams were placed across the major supports of the roof and covered with Saguaro ribs and ocotillo ribs. These served as the frame for the house. Brush from creosote bushes was piled up around the posts and over the top. When finished, the pit house was about four feet above ground. To complete the construction process, the brush was plastered over with mud and dirt. The interior floor was covered with mud plaster, and a fire hearth was dug into the floor just inside the door. This design allowed the house to stay relatively cool in the summer and warm in the winter. 
Agriculture
Agriculture played a major role in Hohokam life. They grew crops of corn, beans, and squash along the Santa Cruz and Rillito Rivers taking advantage of the rich soils occurring there. Small irrigation canals were built to channel the river water to their crops. These canals were dug by hand and could have been 10 feet deep and 30 feet wide. The amount of work it would have taken to keep these waterways clear of sediment, brush and debris must have been overwhelming. On the bajada they used check dams to retain water from rain runoff. The dams were constructed in an area where the water would run down a slope of ground to be caught by the dam and then used to irrigate the crops. Many of these dams are still visible in the vicinity of the Sabino Canyon Visitor Center. 
The Hohokam also used the desert to its full potential by gathering available foods that grew wild around them. When the fruit of the prickly pear and saguaro were ripe, the women would set out to their temporary camps close to the fruit. Because saguaro's reach up to 50 feet in height, the Hohokam would use a long cross-shaped picking stick made from the ribs of dead saguaro to pluck the ripe fruit from the cactus. The fruit would usually split when it hit the ground, revealing its scarlet pulp mixed with black seeds. If the fruit didn't split, the pickers would use the stem as a knife to cut around the fruit and split it open. The fruit was boiled down into a cherry red juice used for syrup. The cooked pulp was made into jam and some was dried on racks to make a concoction similar to fruit leather. The black seeds were dried and then made into cakes. 
Another important food source for the Hohokam were the beans of the mesquite tree. Mesquite beans were collected and ground with a stone mortar and pestle called a metate. The mesquite flour was used for broths, breads, and stews. 
However, the Hohokam were not completely dependent on crops or gathering -- they also hunted. Hunting allowed the Hohokam to supplement their diet with rabbit, deer, and sometimes bighorn sheep, antelope, rodents and birds. 
Daily Life
Cooking and daily chores were done for the most part outside of the house in a ramada. They also used the ramada as a communal gathering place and slept under it in warmer weather. When the weather was colder, the people would sleep on woven mats inside their houses. They also hung their baskets and lightweight supplies from the walls of their houses. 
When their work was finished they had time for other activities, especially games and art. They expressed themselves by making clay pots, baskets and jewelry. Shells, nose plugs, and stone beads were some of the jewelry worn by the Hohokam. 
Shells, which were probably traded with the Indians of Mexico, were fashioned into necklaces, bracelets, and rings. They etched the shells with fermented saguaro juice which acted like an acid on the parts of the shell that had not been coated with wax or pitch. 
Great craftspeople, the Hohokam featured frogs, birds, snakes and human forms in their carvings. They could carve cups and trays out of solid rock. The finished products were traded with other Indian tribes or kept for personal use. 
End of a Culture
The Hohokam prospered in the Tucson Basin until approximately 1350 AD when they began to decline. Among the speculations for this decline, the most common explanations include famine, climate change, warfare, or disease.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.233.245.97 (talk) 02:32, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hohokam life 

message: Maybe there should be some mention of a sort of connection with Mesoamerican types of cultures? http://www.academia.edu/1424385/Pueblo_Religion_and_the_Mesoamerican_Connection Word dewd544 (talk) 04:25, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hohokam origins and cultural ties with Mesoamerica 

message: The photograph of the pot with legs and blue and red paint is not Hohokam. It should be removed. Arizona State Museum can provide an image of a Hohokam pot. 128.196.192.70 (talk) 22:46, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pottery is not Hohokam 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: User:Epictrex, drop your WP:EDITWAR across multiple articles, learn the rules and put them to use. Provide a cite for that change and all of the other contested changes you have been making across multiple articles. WP:CITE and WP:VERIFY are two of the most important policies here, and you ignore them routinely. You have yet to use a cite ONE time, even though how to do so has been explained to you in excruciatingly minute detail, User talk:Epictrex#WP:CITE, in a way I have never had to explain to an editor in my 13 years here. Heiro 21:12, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That's your answer to an editor asking you to source your edits? A fucking emoji? This isn't social media. Heiro 21:24, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

text: What you believe doesn't matter here one jot. Policy here is WP:CITE, WP:VERIFY and WP:RS. I've been editing about indigenous civilizations here for 13 years, I'm the one who cited much of the work on the Mississippian culture, including that they should be described as a "civilization" (see Talk:Mississippian culture#Culture or Civilization). So you can leave whatever you think about my motives aside, and leave the aspersions aside as well. You will cite additions and changes, especially if contested. If you can't handle that, or aren't mature enough to follow along with the policies that everyone else who edits here has to abide by, then this may  not be the place for you. Heiro 22:15, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

text: The point Heiro is making is that nobody's opinion matters, but the phrasing used in reliable sources does, and the reason you should believe him is not because he said it, but because you can check the same sources yourself and see the predominant terminology they use.  To my limited knowledge, he's correct that the Hohokam are usually referred to as a culture.  SnowFire (talk) 22:51, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Heiro 22:52, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

text: I just spent the last 15 minutes gathering diffs, edit warring warning links, and filling out a 3RR report. But you have now reverted, so the point is moot. You finally used a citation, albeit on another article. Good. I wont file it at the 3RR board this time. But the above, and the edit warring today on multiple articles, that has to stop. The making of random small uncited and incorrect or incorrectly understood material edits is almost as bad as outright vandalism. They aren't malicious, but they are hard to spot and even harder to deal with when someone goes to multiple articles randomly changing things or editing based on "I do t think I need to cite a source explaining" things. The next time I have to go through the trouble of hunting down diffs to file a report over your edits, it will be filed. Heiro 22:52, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culture vs Civilization