Talk:Indo people

message: Great article. Agree with an earlier comment by someone here stating its quality is superior to the Dutch language one (where editors cant seem to differentiate between Indo (mixed blood) and Totok (full blooded) 'Indische Nederlanders'). An overall trend not uncommon as english wiki environment boasts the highest quality contributions in the whole wide wikiworld.
Anyway I cant be bothered with working on the Dutch one (even though its my native language) and would love to make my contributions here. The current article already gives a brilliant overview, so I would like to deepen some of this articles 'chapters'. Today I have linked in a 'main' article to the 'pre-colonial' sub chapter, so we can go into more depth there.
Hoping for some native portuguese speakers to translate and contribute some portuguese info and data.
KARL RAN (talk) 18:35, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Deepening 2010

message: Due to the many valuable 2007 contributions made by our fellow wikipedians on several of the Indo communities around the world (merci!), I restructured the article to clearly differentiate between the historical and contemporary additions. btw. The only major Indo community still missing is the one in australia (&new zealand). Regards JG It's just HIS story... (talk) 21:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Restructuring_2008

message: There are two 'other meanings at the top of the page - I think that deserves a disambig SatuSuro 09:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disambig

message: Firstly excellent article contribution by responsible editor. It is overall well referenced and should perhaps even move away from its stub status. (Not sure yet how thats done though in Wikipedia.) To my knowledge and information I can confirm most everything covered. However believe Ive read that that are actually 6 distinctive waves identified w/rgds to the Indo Diaspora. Will try to look that up and present to editor in chief ; ) if still active in Wikipedia. Kind regards,
JOHN NATHANN 18:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some Indos have migrated to South America, primarily in the then-Dutch colony of Suriname in the 1950's, and invitations from the governments of Argentina, Brazil and Chile for about a thousand Indos resettle in communities with similar economies and climates to their former homes in Indonesia. The Indo Dutch came to South Africa and briefly a few hundred in the former Portuguese colonies of Angola and Mozambique. Indo Dutch in Africa or South America continually moved onto the Netherlands or the USA in the 1970s and '80s, but the chapter of Indo migration was that cold war allies with governments not in favor of Communism (esp. true in South Africa and Argentina). It was when Indonesians fled political and economic disorder when there was Communist party influence from independence 1949 to 1966 when Suharto began his 30-year rule as dictator of a right-wing military regime) should not be forgotten. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 05:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Diaspora

message: Hi, just dropped in from another wiki world. Wanted to let the editors of this article know they did a very nice job. This article is even better then the Dutch language one. Keep it up guys. Marcel 194.151.13.225 19:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: english vs dutch wiki

message: Originally, most VOC employees came to the Indies without wives. The same went for the many Dutch and German soldiers who served in the Netherland East Indies Army. Family names include: Du Perron, Fransz, van Haastert, de Grave, Knuppel, Varkevisser, Moll, La Fontaine, Berk, de Groot, Vogelsang, Hanson, Davies, Middleton, de Vries, Cohen-Stuart,etc 
Including some family names to illustrate the fact that all Indo-European families in its first definition have European last names is fine. Should not try to make it a complete list that is impossible and unnecessary. Think there are too many names. The long list of famous Dutch Indos already supports that. Also the comment on the East Indies Army does not belong there. But in the next section: The KNIL is part of that. Final comment: Also believe the categories arent giving this book its cover. Etnic group in Indonesia? But only historically then, nothing about Indos in contemporary Indonesia?? If they have disappeared then why not Etn. group in Holland or America...? Sorry if I sound bitchy... I actually think this article is both comprehensive and clear in its high level overview of a long history. Warm rgds, Ms.Finesse 02:11, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: too many family names

message: This article is A class except maybe for the missing Indos in Indonesia section. Good job everybody and good luck with it. Pat —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.201.18.68 (talk) 20:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A CLASS!

message: Just checked and Indos in the Netherlands are officially registered by the Dutch CBS as citizens of foreign descent (Dutch: Allochtonen) when at least one parent is born outside the Netherlands. Interestingly enough their Eurasian status puts them in the Western category of foreign citizens. Krgds, JOHN NATHANN 18:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Registration of Indos in the Netherlands.

message: The article was renamed 'Indo people' to conform to a (sort of) standard ('XXX people' for ethnic groups, 'XXX language' for languages).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jorge Stolfi (talk • contribs) 12:50, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renamed 'Indo people' 

message: I have removed the folllowing statement Even in East Timor the mestizos [sic] play leading political roles (both elected presidents are mestizo). East Timor was not part of the Dutch East Indies, and of the country's two presidents, only José Ramos Horta is mestiço, Xanana Gusmão is not (although his first wife was.) Quiensabe 19:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  East Timor 

message: Just noticed deletion of the 'Lists of Indos' page, that was linked to this article. (?)
Well what can I say? Overzealous admins run a rampage again... The Wikipedia Achilles heal revealed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.94.191.131 (talk) 22:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  List deletion 

message: The image :Image:Barryprima.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Barryprima.png

message: See this edit. Badagnani (talk) 21:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No discussion required concerning removal of potential WP:BLP violations, with no sources whatsoever to back up that he himself is an "Indo person." Bulldog 22:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undiscussed removal of [[Eddie Van Halen]] 

message: very comprehensive article. thank you to all contributors. regards, ray  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.70.98.245 (talk) 06:26, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: compliments

message: I realize that many people may disagree with me on this point, but I find the statement that "they find it hard to recognise their own cultural features" problematic. This makes the false assumption that blood and culture are identical or that one follows automatically from the other. If they don't recognize these cultural features as their own, then I would argue that by definition it's not their culture. It may be their parents' or grandparents' culture, but that really isn't the same thing. Cultural identity is fluid, especially across generations, and I see no reason to insist that Indo people or any other minority must stick to a static and stereotypical idea of "their own" culture. If they speak Dutch, live Dutch and feel Dutch, then their culture is Dutch.
Maitreya (talk) 16:13, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it does say "some find it hard" - but I take your point. But the article is a bit of mess - it takes a whole lot of opinionated academic articles and strings them all together as fact, giving us numerous dubious statements such as the one you point out. The whole thing needs a big cleanup with heavy but reasoned use of the delete and backspace keys. --Merbabu (talk) 21:48, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Annoyed by Cultural Straitjacket 

message: w/rgds to the numbers the oficial CBS numbers are quite good to count indos. they are as accurate as possible and actually (by definition) exclude the expatriate totok indies dutchmen. the adjusted (higher) numbers by nidi made in 2001 include south moluccans and totoks as well as imigrated indos. this recalc (also based on cbs data, btw) was made for financial compensation purposes due to the decennia long neglect of the dutch government w/rgd to their dutch indies population. Jhn Lng  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.132.224.81 (talk) 09:26, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: numbers

message: Not sure if the latest invasive additions by newbee editor are all improvements to the article. Are there senior editors monitoring this article? Gr., Eddie C.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.96.199.57 (talk) 07:09, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agree with Eddie C. I'll tackle the the disregard of the WP:NOR rule, as it seems the most erroneous issue at hand. Quick check shows all so called references make no notice of any relation to Indos at all. KARL RAN (talk) 22:36, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  NEW EDITS 2012 

message: Citations for the population figures in the info box should be provided, either in the info box or in the text (preferred). If they are in the text, then it is OK to leave them without in the info box (or the lead for that matter). Otherwise, the info can be removed at any time. In the meantime, the citation request tags should remain in the info box. thanks --Merbabu (talk) 22:49, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: General comment

message: Should the term ethnic group be used in the article?
If it is to be used in the article, then there has to be citations that demonstrate that it is recognised as an ethnicity or ethnic group.
Searching "Indo people", "Dutch East Indies" and ethnic, or just "Indo people" and ethnic in Google Scholar produces few results, none of which recognise it as an ethnicity or ethnic group.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22indo+people%22+%22dutch+east+indies%22+ethnic&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5 Kwauf (talk) 08:45, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like you might have found your answer. :-)   --Merbabu (talk) 23:01, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnic group classification 

message: * Vote against merging. Not necessary and counterproductive. The article Indo people covers a group of people, while the other article covers a specific historical period in their history. So while the group article covers all historical time periods on a high level, the other article covers an exact time period in more depth. Cheers, Barry  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.169.251.130 (talk) 15:10, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Merger 

message: i don't recognize a SINGLE one of the people given as "examples" - are they supposed to be famous?
maybe in holland, but for the rest of us, how about someone a little more prominent, like Kristen Kreuk or the Van Halen brothers?  209.172.25.66 (talk) 03:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Celebs 

message: * I've never been convinced that the article should be called "Indo (people)". This is an Indonesian term, and its usage is to my understanding as slang. Perhaps it is also a Dutch term, but either way, it is not English, and en wikipedia should be based on English terminology. The article should refer to them as Indonesian-Eurasians (and after the first sentence, just Eurasians) or something using mixed. I get that "Indo" is more convenient, but it still doesn't get around the fact that it's usage is not English, but Indonesian (and Dutch?).  
* The lead is limited to the definition to Dutch points of view. The Indonesian term "info" applies to anyone mixed Indonesian-"bule" person. The article does mention those of Indonesian-Australian/US/UK/etc mixed parentage - which are probably being born in greater numbers now than Dutch. The lead should be modified to cater for this broader scope. --Merbabu (talk) 21:24, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Some comments...

message: This sentence:
:Most are Dutch citizens and have great variety of combinations of diverse European and Asian ancestries.Indische Genealogische VerenigingThomas Janoski, The Ironies of Citizenship: Naturalization and Integration in Industrialized Countries. Cambridge University Press, 2010. 
- - - - - -
...makes claims that would be pretty fundamental to this article - i.e., most "indos" are Dutch citizens. Yet I can't find that claim in any of the 1/2 dozen references provided. Can somebody assist? It would be better to have a single clear reference than having the article swamped with numerous references in the apparent attempt to make something look legitimate. --Merbabu (talk) 00:02, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Mostly Dutch Citizens..."?? - followed by a swamp of citations 

message: Wow, this used to be the best article on the subject matter. Sorry to see its turned to real sh*te. I guess the originators moved on... and lack of ownership by active editors results in the deletion of all sorts of solid info and the addition of rubbish... Suggest this article to be officially downgraded. Pity... Good thing the Indonesian language copy holds up...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.85.228.254 (talk) 00:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Downgrade 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: 'Indo' was a slur in the Dutch East Indies and the term Indo-European might be more appropriate to use as the header of this article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.214.160.134 (talk) 19:04, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indo as a slur 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This is in fact confusing the topic, as is is not at all what is meant here. The prefix 'Indo' may be derived from the word 'Indus', but the article's topic 'Indo people' is very much focused on the Eurasian people of mixed Indonesian and European heritage. Not Indian - European. etc. Please revert. Regards, Danny  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.107.84.45 (talk) 15:56, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  DISAGREE: Edits to broaden the definition made by brouwers 

message: Hi. I recently opened wikipedia & opened this page. When I found someone tried to do vandalism Ppi4566 (talk) 12:18, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Hi there. I find the sentence "Most upper and middle class Indo's seem to have integrated into Christian Indo-Chinese subcultures" (the forth paragraph from the bottom of the article) quite interesting, but I think it needs to be verified. I put the  for the mean time to attract attention to it. Thanks, Naval Scene (talk) 14:41, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I find the claim to be quite significant (if correct), but without source quite untenable. I have removed it with some other unsourced text. –Austronesier (talk) 17:29, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  thank you. Rgds, Naval Scene (talk) 03:16, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Integration to Indo-Chinese subcultures? 

message: The article states that 2nd Gen Immigrants had a 80% rate of marriage to Native Dutch. though since the actual numbers of Eurasians is only listed as "estimates", we have no real source on numbers, though the general trend would have been high. Since the Dutch Census doesn't count race, it could be anywhere from 100k to the articles claim of 1-3 million.
Scholarship weeps at such inaccuracies due to Government censorship.
While the older generations were strongly pressured to assimilate into the White Dutch population: eg,  no "White", no "non-White", only "Dutch" ; the recent EU (and American) "trend" is towards massive (the California legislature is suggesting $5 million US per person!) economic rewards/reparations towards "Visible Minorities", so People of Mixed-Race Ancestry have increasing reason to identify as such (ESPECIALLY if they don't look visibly diverse). And since there is a government necessity to find out how much funding will have to be distributed, there will be pressure to finally publish the Non-White numbers, which when compared to the total Census figures, will give White numbers.
Perhaps by 2030?
The current Dutch Monarch has apologized to the people of the former colonies & iirc, reparations have openly started flowing to these nations, while hundreds of thousands of refugees from these former colonies (& even nations NOT colonized by the Dutch!) enter Holland Each year, there is the making of a Demographic/Economic Catastrophe. Reparations for 5 million people? Ten million? One million Euros per person?2603:7080:CB3F:5032:8954:43A9:1656:D57E (talk) 23:32, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intermarriage Numbers & Modern Reparations Policies. 

message: , since you restored the population estimates that I'd replaced, could you help me understand where in the sources they're supported? The LA Times source states that 100,000 Indo people live in LA, not in the whole US. Can you help me understand if the other figures you restored are supported by the sources cited? Cordless Larry (talk) 13:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there's been no response here, I'm going to revert this restoration. Cordless Larry (talk) 06:48, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, sources and references are provided, especially since  1.5 million plus is provided by NIOD's source. Jeremy Kusumatmadja (talk) 09:34, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how your sources support the figure, . They seem to be suggesting that there are approximately 1.7 million Indonesians in the Netherlands, not 1.7 million Indo people. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:40, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population estimates