Talk:Hindi cinema/Archive 3

message: I am not clear on this, but I think there used to be signing a contract by an artist with a studio. This would bind the artist to perform only for that studio for the period of the contract. The studios would roll out films. The studios are later on converted into shopping mall, as the real estate prices went up and cost of film production did not give good returns. Someone who is closed to this history can tell better. Shoppers Stop in Andheri was connected to either studio or a cinema house. Also the word talkies = talking movies need presentation in history of bollywood. Then there are immitation of Bollywood in the form of Tamil's Tollywood, Kerala's Kollywood, Lahore's Lollywood. Npindia 17:56, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Studios in History 

message: Add # + your signature for what you consider the best choice, and your second choice.
*Devanagari
#--D-Boy 07:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dunno, but I agree that the proper script would be useful for names in Tamil. I'm not that knowledgeable about Indian languages -- do Telegu, Malayalam, and other South Indian languages use the Tamil script? The Devanagari? Anyhow, same thing for those. Script as used in the region in which the film is made. Zora 21:56, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  No Tamil, Telugu, and Malayalam are all different scripts - though Tamil and Malayalam are similar to each other as are Telugu and Kannada. Just to preëmpt anything, yes there are special Devanāgarī characters to write தமிழ் (thamizh, Tamil), but this is actually probably more of a political problem than the other considering the resistance to Hindī in Tamil Nadu by some. Besides, nobody writes Tamil in Devanāgarī. The special characters are for writing loan words from Dravidian langs.  Khirad 07:59, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like seeing urdu on bengali actors.  The script should be based on the background they are from.--D-Boy 15:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that doesn't make any sense. Actors in Bolloywood films come from all over India and sometimes outside. By such standard Aishwarya Rai's name could only appear in Tulu script. Dieresis 11:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: And it should!--D-Boy 21:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poll 

message: This is confusing, because while I'd like to see Bollywood actors' names in D/U, I think for Tamil Actors, only T or D/T is ok. How do I express that in the poll above? --Ragib 18:59, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Dunno, but I agree that the proper script would be useful for names in Tamil. I'm not that knowledgeable about Indian languages -- do Telegu, Malayalam, and other South Indian languages use the Tamil script? The Devanagari? Anyhow, same thing for those. Script as used in the region in which the film is made. Zora 21:56, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  No Tamil, Telugu, and Malayalam are all different scripts - though Tamil and Malayalam are similar to each other as are Telugu and Kannada. Just to preëmpt anything, yes there are special Devanāgarī characters to write தமிழ் (thamizh, Tamil), but this is actually probably more of a political problem than the other considering the resistance to Hindī in Tamil Nadu by some. Besides, nobody writes Tamil in Devanāgarī. The special characters are for writing loan words from Dravidian langs.  Khirad 07:59, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like seeing urdu on bengali actors.  The script should be based on the background they are from.--D-Boy 15:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that doesn't make any sense. Actors in Bolloywood films come from all over India and sometimes outside. By such standard Aishwarya Rai's name could only appear in Tulu script. Dieresis 11:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: And it should!--D-Boy 21:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: A new editor recently changed the poster at the top of the article. We used to have Deewar, which seemed to be OK with everyone -- that's a classic Amitabh film. Wingzero replaced this with a poster for Dhoom, which I didn't like at all. It could be any Hollywood biker movie, if you just go by the picture. I replaced that with Devdas. 
We could go round on this for ages. Would it be OK to just say, well, leave the poster up for a few days and then change to another? That way everyone would get a chance to put up his/her favorite poster. I'd change back to the Dhoom poster if I thought it was going to be just temporary. 
If we're going to have just one poster up there, then perhaps there should be some community discussion about which one to use. We only have a few thousand choices <g>. Zora 22:35, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Movie poster 

message: The Spicevienna linkspammer (yes, back again!) also made an edit, stating that Bollywood made films in Marathi and Gujarati. I recall hearing that there were a few such films made, but I've certainly never seen them discussed on any Bollywood websites, or heard of any specific movies. Until this can be sorted out, I removed the edit. I'm thinking that if there are any such films, they would be classed under regional cinema rather than Bollywood. Opinions? Zora 08:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gujarati and Marathi films 

message: I know that alot of Bollywood films, especially today, are released exclusively with titles written in Roman characters, but many films show the name of the film in Devanagri script as well as the Urdu title and if anyone has any information on these, I feel they should be included in the individual films' pages just as the Chinese title is given in the articles on Chinese movies.
Zephyrprince 02:46, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That seemed to be the consensus among the editors here and people have been adding Devanagari titles to movies (or Arabic/Urdu script, if they can do that). If you know Hindi and Devanagari, feel free to start adding the titles. Zora 05:39, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I have no knowledge in the area and had actually tried a couple of times to look up Davanagri titles on here and couldnt find them and that's what sparked the comment but Im glad it's already being handled.  Everyone is so on top of things! Zephyrprince 17:27, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hindi Titles 

message: H2D2, please stop spamming the page. Wikipedia is not a link promotion tool. You are continuously promoting a website which has dubious merit; Wikipedia is not a tool for web site promotion. If you want to promote the site, blogs are a better way. I don't mind a valid paragraph on the plagiarism discussion, but we don't need to promote a site for that. Thanks. --Ragib 00:05, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: H2d2, unless you can provide a valid reason as to why your promotion of a dubious site is so important, I'd remove the promotional text you keep inserting here. Please come to the talk page to present your views, rather than spamming the article again and again. Thanks. --Ragib 02:27, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: H2d2, you are still spamming the article. Let me get my point straight, I have no problem having a paragraph on plagiarism. But the paragraph you are inserting again and again is simply a website promotion. The site has dubious merit, as pointed to by others. Also it is not a universally accepted site like imdb. All you are doing here is promoting the site, and wikipedia is not a tool for such promotional activities. I'm asking you again and again, give some compelling reason why your site is so important to be mentioned in detail here. Thanks. --Ragib 13:38, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  bollycat spamming 

message: I just noticed that sometime during all the recent reversion and vandalism, someone removed all information re Bollywood as making movies in Hindi! I know that this is a politically difficult topic, but it really must be addressed in the article. I have tried to restore what I remember of the text we originally had, a year or so ago. Zora 03:18, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone removed all mention of Hindi! 

message: I believe that Harprit is the editor who also uses anon IPs to attack the Urdu and Hindi articles, and has now expanded into the Bollywood article. He believes -- against the consensus of all linguists -- that Urdu and Hindi are two separate languages that just happen to have absorbed some vocabulary from each other. In other words, the Partition didn't just happen in 1947, it has always been there. (We have always been at war with Oceania.) I hope that all the other Bollywood editors will help do whatever reverting is necessary to keep the article scientifically valid. Zora 03:39, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Under Harprit attack 

message: Anon, you keep inserting that material re Bappi Lahiri. It's just too detailed for an overview article. Could you please make sure that it's covered in a Bappi Lahiri article? Then we can link to that from the plagiarism section. We could add other links if you know of other individuals who've been involved in actual plagiarism lawsuits. 
Other editors, if there IS anyone else here, I would appreciate some help. Harprit is vandalizing my userpage, threatening me, and making a point of reverting all my edits. Zora 02:59, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Zeno although I don't really wish to just revert at this time.  Harprit, stop vandalizing her userpage or you won't even be able to argue your point becuase you'll be banned. gren グレン 08:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harprit's revert war, anon re Bappi Lahiri 

message: Yikes.  Clicking on History of Indian cinema takes one straight to the Bollywood page.  While clicking on History of cinema in India takes one to the general Cinema of India page.  This semantic split is weird enough in itself, but that there's little actual history at the latter page makes it even more perverse.
It seems to me that these two phrasings ought to redirect to the same place, and if that place should be a subsection of anything, it should be at the general "Cinema of India" page.  A general history of Indian film should not be tacked on way down towards the end of a Bollywood article.  I'm sure I don't need to tell most people here that "Bollywood" and "Indian Cinema" are not synonymous - heck, Bollywood and Indian commercial cinema aren't even synonymous, as the separate articles on Kollywood, Tollywood, etc., make clear.
That aside, the history section looks like a pretty good start to my non-expert eyes, although it would be great to see it expanded considerably by knowledgable folks.  All the more reason it should be in a more prominent and logical place.
Michael Wells 19:07, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with everything you say. I've been meaning to work on a general history of Indian cinema article for ages, and just haven't gotten a round tuit. If you want to excise the subsection and make it the start of the new article, and point both Bollywood and Cinema of India at it, please do! At least it would be a start. Thanks for the cogent criticism. Zora 22:57, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is Indian film history a subsection of this article? 

message: Hello all - was fussing around Sania Mirza's page and it struck me that there should be a category or page for south asian entertainers and celebrities. I've just been laboriously uploading a section on Nandita Das as well - hope people from here will bring their tools along to the latter site. But back to my poser - fame is glueing together a number of notable and otherwise non-notable names; this seems to be a global phenomenon. But fame in south asia is its own paradigm if you catch my drift. Worthy of a section? We  could then have a global list of entertainers. I think I well repair back here after some sleep! Autumnleaf 23:49, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that it's in line with other Wikipedia examples to have an article for List of notable South Asians. However, this article would be hard to manage. See the talk section for List of Muslims for an example. Historical and contemporary figures should be separated, and people slotted into reasonable categories. I'd be worried that the contemporary section would turn into a catalogue of "sensations du jour" and require constant updating. Frankly, if I want to know who's HOT as a South Asian, I just go to the blog Sepia Mutiny, one of my faves. Zora 02:39, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  entertainers and celebrities? 

message: Harprit's edits are overwhelmingly blind reverts, as in this article. He refuses to engage in any discussion in the articles, to justify his versions, or even to make corrections when someone points out spelling errors. In some cases this has gone on for a month or more. I've told him that I will restore any reverts he makes unless he joins in a discussion to justify them and to work toward consensus. He doesn't engage in any specifically blockable behavior on a chronic basis, unless perhaps he is trolling. (It's hard for me to tell if he's sincere, a troll, or engaged in revenge reversion.) However, if the editing community as a whole finds him a nuissance, he can be blocked by concensus. I know at least one editor out there would like this, but I'm more interested in what the rest of you think. kwami 08:23, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert block? 

message: Perhaps Gurubrahma didnt see the changes in toto:
I have generally abridged several sections to make the diction and paraphrasing shorter and standardized.
There are references to Pakistanis being 'more' involved in plagiarizing - REMOVED
Please use the words plagiarizing and bootleg instead of pirated/piracy - the usage is colloquial.
Roshan (Rakesh and Rajesh Roshan's father needs mention). Dont know who Suzanne Khan's father is??!! Please enlighten.
Pizzadeliveryboy 19:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have seen the changes in toto; that is why, the edit summary reads "revert - he removed some POV and added some POV." While you have made several changes, the net effect, imo, was that some POV was removed, some was added and the quality of writing came down, strictly again, imo. Bootleg and smuggle are more colloquial than piracy. Bootleg is used more for liquor, narcotics etc. While the dvds are smuggled into Pakistan, the fact remains that they are also pirated versions. The difference is this: DVDs are smuggled into Pakistan because it is (or was) illegal to get movies through imports. However, most of the DVDs available in Pakistan are also pirated, that is, not released by the copyright holders for DVDs. On balance, piracy is more serious from Bollywood's point of view as it affects their revenues. If legit DVDs were to be smuggled into Pakistan, it wouldn't be piracy but still smuggling - yet, it would no longer be a problem of Bollywood but Pakistan's law and order problem. In your paraphrasing, some of the contextual meaning has been greatly lost. Some POV also entered, probably inadvertently, when you call the India TV show "popular" - The TRP ratings of the show and the channel are not much to write home about, the previous categorization of tabloid show seems a better description. Some grammar mistakes have also jumped in, such as, plagiarized Pakistani industry - it should be plagiarized from. A minor matter, but strictly speaking, it should be "plagiarised" as we are supposed to use British English on this article. Roshan senior did not launch his sons, just as Harivanshrai Bachchan did not launch Amitabh or Sekhar did not launch A. R. Rahman. I felt the stress was on people who made it more on their own steam rather than their parents'. Suzanne Khan is the wife of Hrithik Roshan and the daughter of Sanjay Khan of "The Sword of Tipu Sultan." On a topic like Bollywood which sees constant churn like it does, it becomes very difficult to maintain the integrity when several edits are made within a few minutes. The situation becomes complicated especially in situations like these, where all the edits are well-meaning, but some improving the quality and some reducing the same. I would like to hear from the other regular editors of this article as well about what they think about the issue. --Gurubrahma 20:04, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Pizza, I too would like to see a slowdown. While some of your edits have been helpful, others have been ungrammatical. It is very hard to wade through a number of small changes, accepting some, reverting others. It amounts to having to rewrite the article. I had to rewrite the plagiarism section, which I thought had been mangled, and I haven't dealt with the rest of the article. I usually don't mind rewrites when they improve the quality of the article, but in this case the effect is very mixed. Please give us time to vet your changes. Zora 08:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pizzadeliveryboy's edits and Gurubrahma's reversion 

message: Should it be "plagiarizing the Pakistani movie industry" or "plagiarizing from the Pakistani movie industry"??? Please comment and/or change as is acceptable after verifying the grammar. I have seen both instances elsewhere, but my gut feeling is that Wren and Martin would spin in their graves if they saw the second version!!!
Plagiarize is a transitive verb, in most cases. Which means that it needs a Direct Object to complete context, something that is an answer to a question ending in "what/for what", or "whom/for whom". So when I say,
"Many people have plagiarized what"?, the answer is "(the) Pakistani Industry" and not "from (the) Pakistani industry"
That my friend is British English!!!
Pizzadeliveryboy 00:04, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  grammar - resolved issue 

message: Now that I know Suzanne Khan's pedigree (see here), I was wondering if she has any films in her name??? Do we keep her, or jump directly to the Khan side of the Roshan-Khan clan??? Any thoughts....
Pizzadeliveryboy 14:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suzanne Khan 

message: OK I must admit - using popular in Bollywood#Sex_scandals was a mild POV, just like tabloid was in the previous version.
I dont think the India's Most Wanted is a tabloid (A newspaper of small format giving the news in condensed form, usually with illustrated, often sensational material.). May be they create a lot of noise, and the antecedents of the original producer are suspect, but lets give the guy some credit - he is just trying to get the bad guys in jail.....
Pizzadeliveryboy 14:42, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not having actually SEEN the physical form of the paper involved, I'll bow to your experience here. Zora 18:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  popular 

message: I think that the part of Cast and Crew dealing with the clannish tendencies in Bollywood needs to be moved to a section under Controversies with a sub-heading Nepotism
What say you all????
Pizzadeliveryboy 14:45, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, at least you're asking us now. Is nepotism a subject of controversy? Not for most Indians, I think. It seems to me that it's taken for granted that ANY business will likely be a family business and provide jobs for the family and friends of the family. Zora 18:08, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  nepotism 

message: The heading Controversies is the main heading, with AoP and SS as sub-headings. Hence Controversies needs to be in big bold, and AoP and SS needs to be in a lighter font
Pizzadeliveryboy 14:49, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  heading order 

message: First rule of writing an encyclopediac article: Do not level accusations, even implied. Never mind if Bollywood plagiarizes, copies or even trashes other people's work. But Wikipedia has no business passing judgement - specifically, by omitting the word 'alleged' you are jumping into the bandwagon, so to speak and leveling an accusation, albeit implicitly, which is not what an encyclopedia is all about. So if there is a scent of wrong doing in the actions of the subject about whom the article is being written, you ALWAYS use the word 'alleged' - its common sense, polite and saves you from something called 'libel' - ever heard of that word??
IMW was also a program on TV - not just a paper. Never mind their antecedents or intentions - we need to atleast stick to a minimal decorum of not 'judging' someone - atleast the word 'popular' sheds some positive light - but the word 'tabloid' borders on crassness.
I may agree with you on cable TV, but mentioning the dynamics of the transformation of Indian audience needs some credit - just mentioning the changing tastes of Indian audience is incomplete.
"and far away Hollywood and....." - what are you? writing a high school essay??
As far as my english goes, I will reserve opinion.
Pizzadeliveryboy 21:33, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My responses to some of the points raised by PDB can be found on [] message I posted on his talkpage. I am not posting it here because of the length and because it covers other aspects that may not fully be relevant on this talkpage. --Gurubrahma 14:18, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Zora!!! 

message: We went through an extended tussle over Bollycat and finally got it removed. It sees plagiarism in EVERYTHING, like a John Bircher seeing Commies under the bed. It is inaccurate. We had complaints about the link from several readers. Please don't add it again. Zora 05:50, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bollycat 

message: I don't want to start an edit war, so its better to discuss it here before making changes in the main page. Someone (anonymous IP) has been adding a link titled http://www.eduwiser.com in the external links section. The link in concern is of a forum that hardly has any articles in it with most topics having zero posts. It is a perfect example of a link spam so I deleted it. But it was recreated. I have deleted that again. Please reach a consensus if an edit war is to be averted. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 05:17, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No consensus is needed. That's linkspam, revert on sight. We're all behind you 100%. Go to the WikiProject page (see the logo on the top) to call for help if the linkspam gets to you. Unfortunately, it's a never-ending task, as is simple vandalism. Zora 06:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war on link spam 

message: I know that some people think Bollywood movies are camp (see this website,  Planet Bollybob ). The author is a Canadian transvestite, whom I know slightly from the time he posted to rec.arts.movies.local.indian on Usenet. He's funny but ... he's not the whole story. Some of us started out making fun of Bollywood and ended up loving it. So I removed the sentence re camp. However, there may be another way to add the info (and the website?). Comments? Discussion? Zora 23:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bollywood movies camp? 

message: I don't think the Deewar Dialogue has a place in this article. It just doesn't represent anything to the general reader. Firstly, I don't believe an example is necessary, as the article stresses continually of how Hindi films are melodramatic etc.
Also, I'm not sure whether anyone will agree with me, but I believe the dialogue has absolutely no effect in English. The 'I have mom' bit doesn't help the idea of melodrama, to anyone that hasn't watched the movie, I doubt it will make sense or help the explanation of Bollywood dialogues. In any case, the way it's written (with the <short pause>) just makes me laugh. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 08:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to delete it, that's fine with me. We had several editors who just LOVED that scene and fussed over it endlessly. Delete it and see what happens. It may come back. Zora 07:48, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deewar Dialogue 

message: I've had this article on my watchlist for a while but haven't seen any genuine progress being made into it. Nor any ongoing organized effort or place to see what the article now needs. Perhaps I just missed it. Anyway the point is that an article with as much potential as this should be reaching for nothing less than Featured Article promotion and if it does not match the criteria at the moment we should be working to get it to reach the criteria. So could someone just list what the article needs to become a featured article and then work can begin. If it needs a lot of work I may nominate it as Indian Collaboration of the Week. Thanks. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 06:08, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been the editor doing the most work on this article, and I'm just exhausted and over-extended right now. If someone else could read Tejaswini Ganti's book, Bollywood, and bring some of his? her? insights into the article, that would be great. The book has some great discussions of the Bollywood creative process that would really enhance the article. So would the material on locations of film studios. More work on the history of Bollywood in particular would help. Rise and fall of studios, directors, etc. Zora 10:28, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where to for this article 

message: Anon, it's not a good idea to go around changing US to UK spelling, and vice-versa. Both spellings are OK, and we haven't standardized. Basically, we usually leave things as the original author wrote them. Otherwise it leads to edit wars between US and UK editors. 
Also, I reverted your edits in the Hollywood-Bollywood sentence. I felt that you had just made the sentence more stilted and harder to read. Now this is a matter of taste. We try to sound encyclopedic but not academic here, and it's a hard balance to attain. Still, I don't think the previous version was bad, just not as ornate as you prefer. 
If you want to dispute this, do. Perhaps we can bat different versions of the sentence back and forth until we get one that we both like. Zora 12:13, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: India related articles tend to be written in UK English and I think it should be kept that way.  --Blacksun 14:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anon's edits 

message: It appears that totting up genealogical and marriage connections between Bollywood stars is everyone's favorite sport, as the list was getting way way long. So I split it off into its own article, List of Bollywood film clans. 
Now that it's by itself, I think it could use some work. Perhaps sorting it out into three, two and one generation clans? Perhaps discussing marriage links between the clans? Zora 05:24, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split off list of film clans 

message: "Foreigners interested in sampling Indian cinema may wish to consult this List of popular Bollywood films."  umm ya I dont think this type of a sentence belongs in an encyclopedia, especially the word foreigners.  In fact, this entire section needs to go.  It should be a see also link, thats about it.  --Blacksun 14:22, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, sounds to much like you're advertising Bollywood films for foreigners as well. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 23:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, OK. All I can see is that I've directed a fair number of clueless foreigners here and I was a clueless foreigner myself, once. I would have appreciated this article, and the list. Zora 01:14, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: List of popular movies

message: http://www.akhilesh.in/life/india/bollywoodinspirations.php
I had actually first added the text myself by direct editing. Thanks to Zora for pointing that it should be discussed first over here. I do not want to do any link spamming. Please once take a look at the article and the list and if found suitable please add the link.
Toakhilesh 08:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The site is very limited, has ads, and contains only one person's opinions. I do not think that it is helpful. Zora 08:56, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion for including an article/list of alleged plagiarization

message: The history is useful, but it needn't be the first thing a reader sees. I moved it down in the article. 
I changed terrorism to armed conflict and terrorism. Atributing the problems to terrorism, thus removing the tactics of the Indian army from the table, is biased. "Armed conflict" suggests that there are two sides involved and doesn't judge between them. 
Anon, the sentence that you keep inserting in the plagiarism section is not needed. That is information found elsewhere in the article. Zora 19:44, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: I'd added some links previously to a couple of different organizations offering Bollywood style dance classes. It wasn't for commercial purposes, but rather to illustrate the point that Bollywood films and the trademark songs & dances are becoming very much a part of mainstream pop culture outside of South Asia.
a simple web search will turn over so many different options for fans who seek to learn the style of Bollywood dancing, or who are just enthusiastic about the song and dance sequences. I felt it was a great addition to the wiki, elaborating that Bollywood is no longer an underground or cult phenomena in the west, but is trending into a large wave, both in music and movies, and western pop culture. For example, the upcoming launch of the broadway show "Bombay Dreams" on tour in the US...
There are some wonderful resources available, and these sites don't just stop at dance classes, they are full of lots of information about the genre and style:
Bollywood West
Bollywood Axion
Mango Dance
India Community Center
London Dance
Diva Dance
Dhoonya Dance
Blue 13 Dance co.
Wikipedia being a resource, I feel it would be remiss not to help direct readers and researchers to further exploration of the topic. Thanks~ Wikipedia would be reduced to another portal full of clutter --Johnhardcastle 10:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-Commercial links 

message: How common is the use of "Bollywood" to refer to Hindi cinema in serious Indian texts? --A Sunshade Lust 20:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bollywood? 

message: I looked at the Bollywood entry and just HAD to edit. Someone had inserted a personal essay about Bollywood values. It had no references, just assertions. Had to go. Someone had again inserted some commercial sites as "news." Someone who adores Sholay added several references to it in the body of the article, which I pruned. This article is about all Bollywood films, not Sholay :) Zora 04:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zora sticks her toe in the water 

message: People have been changing the list of regional film industries back and forth ... sometimes Tollywood is taken to refer to Telugu cinema and sometimes to Bengali (from Tollygunge, I believe). I've seen the term used both ways, by Indians, and the double meaning is extremely confusing. Best just to remove Tollywood from the list and leave the discussion in the Tollywood article (where it is mentioned). 
An anonIP readded the commercial "news" links. Hmmmph. I read Rediff myself, but I've carefully avoided giving it a link in the article. Zora 00:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ah, I see 

message: User:Nirojansakthivel has been constantly moving the page to Hindi films. The article is about the Bollywood industry not Hindi films. So if we mean Bollywood then that covers finance, marketing, films, awards etc. By saying films people might assume the article is just about Hindi films. Pa7 23:43, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving of page 

message: Bharatveer, all I need to do is pull down a few DVDS from the shelf. My one mythological (Jai Santoshi Maa) lacks Urdu titles. A couple of films I sampled (Shri 420, Rangeela) are all in Roman lettering. The other seven I checked are mainly in English, but also have the main title of the film in Devanagari and Urdu scripts. They range from 1959 (Kagaaz Ke Phool) to 1990 (Agneepath). 
Don't you watch Bollywood movies? Don't you listen to the song lyrics, with their Arabo-Persian loan words? If you don't, what are you doing editing the article? Zora 08:03, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoa! Watch the titles roll of ANY film in the seventies... the titles appear in English, and then in Arabic and Hindi in tandem... Check the poster of Sholay, for a popular example! Don't you think we take the 'references' factor too far? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Example (talk • contribs) 15:36, 28 September, 2006 (UTC).
Yup! That was me!!! Sorry :) Anagha 10:26, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Pls see Wikipedia:Reliable sources& Wikipedia:No original research.
Posters do not make reliable sources; pls cite any source that claim Bollywood movies are made in Hindustani language.Preferably  the Certificate given by the Censor board of India clearly gives the name of the language in which film is made. I would request you to cite any of such certificates here.--Regards-Bharatveer 04:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References? 

message: Congrats to all those who worked on the lead - extremely well-written. - Cribananda 07:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Praise is a nice change from the usual. I'm speaking not just for myself, but for ALL the editors who have contributed. Zora 07:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excellent lead 

message: Apparently when the spammers arrive, they remove existing links and add theirs. When the spam is removed, there is nothing. I went back a few months, found the non-commercial links that had been there for a long time, and restored them. Gosh all fishhooks I'm tired of this fight. 
This time I put "non-commercial" after the links, which may give the spammers a bit of a clue. Perhaps we also need one of those warnings at the top which only show up when you start editing. Zora 03:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links