Talk:Seleucid Empire

message: This section seems highly racist to me. It falsely equates Judea as an equivalent power to Parthia, which is far from the truth. Judea did not exist and had not existed since about 470BC. Jews DID live in the region and had only protectorate status and provincial designation (not an ethnic indicator) from Rome. There is NO history from the ancient world which equates the region of Judea with Jews at this time. This was a Hellenic Kingdom as was Ptolemaic Egypt, and there fore mentioning such ethnocentric (and highly political)"ideas" like "aggressive Hellenization" indicates that this was not a Hellenized area. To remove the racism from the article it should indicate that Judea was populated by a majority of non-Jews. The territory was Hellenic, then Latin.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.104.113.31 (talk) 00:56, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Parthia and Judea

message: I'm curious about whether this name is attributed to the empire by historians in the aftermath, or by the subjects in the vast territory and during the timespan of the empire. What was the selfdesigned names used by the people, the aristocracy and the proletarii, those in Jerusalem or Persepolis? --Xact (talk) 17:07, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a name that was coined by  historians. The Kingdom itself was named after the founder, Seleucus I, and was generally called either Seleukeia or Seleukis. Lt.Specht (talk) 00:41, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Arche Seleukeia?

message: Alot of this information seems exagerated.   Hopefully a wikihistorian can do something about it.  I still dont know much about the seleucid empire, though I do know 100,000 men and 9,000 war elephants is completly absurd.  What moron would send all those men to india for a mere trade alliance instead of conquering something closer to him, or perhaps retaking the other greek provinces nearby(Maybe egypt to gain more mediterainian control?).
:Wildly exagerated figures are pretty much par for the course for this period when proper bookeeping didn't exist.Dejvid 19:59, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Army Sizes

message: This article is awful...I shall overhaul at some point. john k 14:34, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks so much for the note!  I was going to use it for a presentation.... Ah the dangers of wiki.  The lesbian 21:47, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gah 

message: Does any know the composition of Seleucid armies. Would they be composed like the Macedonian armies of Alexander or would they be closer to the Persian armies, or a combination of the best of both. Jak1985 13:29, 26 August 2005
I think they had a phalanx, like Alexander's armies.  I know they had elephants, as well.  Probably something of a combination of the Persian and Macedonian style armies - Macedonian style infantry, and Persian style cavalry.  But I'm not sure. john k 22:09, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seleucid Armies 

message: This article, despite being lengthy and informative, contains no references at all, save for one web link.  I'm putting the  template at the top of the page to reflect this worrying state of affairs. siafu 23:35, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: This article is currently using a mix of BC and BCE, so we need to pick one over the other. siafu 12:35, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree on the History of Greater Iran series they use BCE and in other historical articles from about this era do to. Dougmuffins 22:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Era names

message: Palestina versus Israel is a delicate and long debate present in many articles. A user changed the current word "Palestina" into "Judah", explaining that at the time of Seleucid dinasty the deleted name didn't exist yet. But he/she is wrong.
First of all Palestina is the actual name of the region where present day Israel and Palestine Authority are based, while Judah it's not the name of that place. That's why I corrected the change. Also, that's not an anachronism neither. The word comes from the latin version of Philistine, (or שְׁתִּים, in hebrew), a people how inhabited the region long before jews arrive.
:No, I'm not wrong at all.  ALmost everything you said above is wrong and POV.  The Philistines were there before the Jews?  Where is your source?  The place is controlled by Israel today, but the name in Seleucid times was Judah or Coele-Syria. FACT. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 15:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The source is the Old Testament (written by the jews). The place is off course controled by Isreal state, but the region's name doesn't change because of that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.226.217.121 (talk) 15:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be wrong.  This was the region's name from AD 135 to 1948.   The Romans picked this name out of hatred for the Jews in AD 135.  Before that it had other names. There is no logical reason to go with the later Roman name, it is anachronostic and obsolete and POV as a term to describe this region. There was an entity called Philistia, but it was nowhere near the size of the other entities and besides it is not the same as the Latin name Palestine. There is absolutely no reason to use that POV name when the name at the time, Judah or Coele-Syria would be more accurate. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 15:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Chronicles of the Bible Lands: A history of the Holy Lands. John Rogerson, 2003. ISBN 1-904594--05-0 pg36 ; "Betwen 200 and 198BC Judah was wrestled from Egypt by the Greek rulers of Syria, the Seleucids" Though my preference would be for either what the conquering empire called the region , or what the conquered people called themselves at that time. Shown with references. SmithBlue 05:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be Coele-Syria and Judah. Definitely NOT the Neo-Latin contemptuous term Palaestina which was designed solely to excise the name of 'Judah' from the history books, and it appears that very same spirit is once again raising its ugly head in the world... ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 14:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am looking forward to the references. SmithBlue 14:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Judah was a name for the southern portion of modern Israel and at the time the northern part plus Lebanon and such was called Syria or Israel. Dougmuffins 22:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I say Judaea.  Why?  That's what Tacitus says.  In fact, he also says a Seleucid was king of Syria when Titus burnt the temple.  So this article is kind of wrong...66.24.111.208 00:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palestina instead of Judah 

message: Apart dispute, the current article features two times the same infobox. Bye. --Attilios 23:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know right. It's driving me crazy. Does anyone know anyone to get this problem fixed while others are still arguing.Dougmuffins 22:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Double infobox

message: The disputed sentence stated: “...the Empire comprised central Anatolia, Syria, Palestina, Mesopotamia, Persia, Turkmenistan, Pamir and the Indus valley.” as of 14:22, 29 January 2007. Then, an user called Codex Sinaiticus, judged the word “Palestina” undesirable. So he changed it into “Judah”, once, and, using a pop-up program, he did it twice, again and again until I asked a fully protection for the article. Well I’ll avoid to questioning about this user personal past behaviour in wikipedia edits, as well as whether he is totally impartial on this matter or not; me personnally I’m not jewish, and I’m not muslim neither.
So, let’s focus on the topic. The word that has to be retained (“Palestine” or “Judah”) is supposed to reflect the name of the region comprised between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea (I hope those names will be accepted by everybody). It’s absolutely irrilevant wich names were given to that region by the differents politicals entities that occupied it. Image if China would change the name of Tibet.
Well, it happens that the english name is Palestine. The word has its roots in the latin Palaestinae, who came from the hebrew Plishtim (שְׁתִּים). What is more, it have been the name since several millennia, long before the word Judea was coined. The firt written evidence of that was written sometime between the 11th and the 7th century BCE, and treaths about events roughly situated between the 23rd and 15th century BCE. It is, try to guess, the Bible. Written by Jews, in hebrew. In the Genesis book, the word “Philistins” is mentionned eight times before the first time the word “Juda” is. Still, “Juda” is just the name of a person, who will, based on the Bible story, found thereafter an offspring, while “Philistins” is since the second time coupled with “land of”: for instance, a land, a region. For exemple: “Abraham resided in the land of the Philistines for many years.”, Genesis 21, 34. So, the Romans didn’t invented anything, and Herodot wasn’t the first to mention the name neither.
Thereafter, many many others occupied Palestine. Notably, the jews did. And they created the kingdom of  Isreal and Judea, who later split in two indipendent states. But still, those names were kingdoms’ names, they didn’t have vocation to designate the region, and if they had, it’s not really important because they didn’t follow the Philistins presence, but just went with.
Jews were not the only ones to occupy Palestine. The region was later conquered by Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantins, Arabs, etc, etc... None of them tried to change the name of Palestine once acquired, perhaps because they had their native region far away, thus they weren’t interested on assimilate the region or change its appelation. Even the crusades used unchanged names of local cities to call their kingdoms.
So, based on the jewish sources, the land between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea was called “land of Philistins” since before Abraham time, thus prior to the 23rd - 15th century BCE, while, upon the same sources, the names Judea and Israel were superimposed to Palestine since the 13th BCE ‘til, and then there are other multiple sources to inform us, the 2nd century CE, and then again since the 19th CE ‘til the present day. Archeological evidence confirm the Philistins, and thus their name, were present in Palestine before jews tribes arrive.
Ok, that’s for the past, but what about today? Even if the disputed article concerns an ancient age, it’s important to know the present day name. It’s not unusual to read the Aztecs settled Mesoamerica, even if the word America was coined in the 16th century CE, or that dynosaurs inhabited Australia, even if Australia is a recent name and the retroactive appellation given to that land mass at dynosaurs’ times is Pangea. It’s not an anachronism, it’s just a way to define the limits of a place. Well, perhaps also because of the Romans’ decision in 135 CE (after all, they had a discrete influence in the Western civilization), the totality of the world retained the name Palestine. Anyway it is the name given in english language to the region today occupied by the Isreal state, and that since long before zionism arrised.
Of course here follows a list of scholar’s quotes who credit all that. Here is what says one of the biggest works about the Seleucid Empire: “301 BCE (summer): Seleucus and Lyisinadrus defeat Antigonus at Ipsus. Ptolomy I of Egypt seized Phoenicias and Palestine.” from The Cambridge history of Iran, page 19, volume 3 The Seleucid, Ponthian and Sasanian periods, , , , chapter written by E. Bicherman, emeritus professor of ancient history, Columbia University, New York. Of course Palestine is used all along the book, and Judea is never mentionnned. But let’s read another source: “From IX to I century five big political entities were created including Mesopotamia and the West of the Middle East (western Syria, Phoenice and Palestine): the Neo-assyrian Empire, Neo-babylonian, Achamenid Persian, Hellenistic and Seleucid, the Arsacid Parthian.” from Mesopotamia at Ist millennium BC, page 5, volume I, , section written by Francis Joanès, emeritus professor of ancient history, Paris VIII University, Paris. Also here, like elsewhere, Palestine is the only name used in the whole work.
Ok, these are exemples of what the world thinks, but what about Jews? What they think Palestine’s name is? Well, actually is not really important, but it can be helpful for avoid any doubt. So here is a text from and israeli author: “In the area dealing with geography, Le Strange and the collection of sources in his “Palestine under the Muslims” are considerably helpful, as are Avi Yonah’s work on the geographycal history of Palestine, Dussaud on the topography of Syria, and the encyclopaedic enterprise of Z. Vilny (Ariel).” from A history of Palestine, page XV, , written by Moshe Gil, professor of jewish history, Tel Aviv University, Tel Aviv. This quote is very interesting, not just for the nationality of its writer, but also because it states both in the book’s title and in its text the choice for the word Palestina, because in the choiced sentence it is used as sole definition the name Palestine even if it was suitable for style elegance avoid to repeat the same word shortly after in the same sentence, and because it credits an another israeli scholar. And what did Avi Yonah write? “Jerusalem: Old city in Palestine, first settled in the early 3rd millennium BC, and first mentioned in contemporary documents in the middle of the 2nd millennium.” from Illustrated encyclopaedia of the classic world, page 254, , written by Michael Avi Yonah, professor of classical archeology and history of art at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem.
So. Of all dozens books I consulted, we can note that all the historians from all around the world, included jewish ones, used as sole name for the mentioned region the word “Palestine”, the majority of isrealians authors used as sole name “Palestine”, and a minority of isrealians authors used both “Palestine” and “Judea” as synonymes. Thus I think there shall no be any doubt about Palestine’s appellation.
Maybe I wrong, but I have little hope this list of proofs will convice Codex Sinaiticus. I feel like he made his choice long ago, before even his birth, so I don’t think logic or evidences can have any weight to his eyes. Instead, what can be done, is to develop a discussion, and contact the administrator resposible for the page’s protection, User:Steel359, once a consensus has been reached. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.226.217.121 (talk) 18:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are arguing that the name of the region was was "Philistin" even before the Hebrews got there.  However, the pre-Hebrew name that is corroborated by archaeological evidence, Biblical records, and records of all neighbouring peoples is "Canaan".  Although the Bible mentions Philistines already in the country in Abraham's day, Scholarly consensus actually contradicts this and says that the Philistines were latecomers who got there well after the Hebrews.  But even if they were there in Abraham's day, "Philistia" never applied to anywhere outside of their coastal settlements near Gaza.  While some Greeks knew the term, it did not become official until 130 AD.  The reason is because they could not stand the name Judah and they were attempting to do a large-scale damnatio memoriae on the name Judah so it would not appear anywhere.  We don't have to follow this Roman damnatio memoriae today; the country was officially called Judea and Coelo-Syria in Seleucid times, so Palestine is both an anachronism and a pov term when used in the sense of a damnatio memoriae. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 18:33, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Palestine is a misnomer from 135AD that became accepted even up until the 1940s. This may have been said before, but the Philistines lived mainly in a narrow coastal strip. They were genetically distinct from modern day Palestinians, having come from Crete or Greece. So as well as a misnomer, it will make some readers assume that today's "Palestinians" have a historical claim to the land of Israel. So call it Judah, or Israel if you want to go further north. rossnixon 01:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We could just cut out Syria and Palestina/Judah/Israel and call it the Levant instead; this would be accurate and avoid the whole issue. siafu 01:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok the hyperlink "judah" sends me to a page that does not represent the area that you guys are talking about. Stop being so goddamn uptight, just call that region whatever the seleucids called it.  
-15 feb 2007. non-member.
Seeing as the principals of the debate are no longer discussing anything, consensus is not likely to be reached.  However, this page needs to be unprotected so that we don't simply violate the fundamental principles of wikipedia. siafu 16:18, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reasons of protection 

message: The map on here isn't very helpful considering it's not in English.
The map on this page is actually a map of the Achaemenid empire, which is what the key refers to when you zoom in. Although it looks about the same, can one that is actually the right empire be found?Ciriii (talk) 01:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: map

message: Draganparis, Zakronian - please resolve this issue rather than putting the word "Macedonian" in and out repeatedly. It may help to remember that this is an encyclopedia, not a vehicle for expressing national preferences.
:What national views ? What's this addition supposed to serve there ? To me it's inaccurate, and whatever we agree "Macedonian" should denote at that period, it's redundant in any sense. And i'm supposed to talk about it with an obsessed person who calls me and other editors vandals ? I read the discussions above and couldn't pick out any argument, do me the honor and point me to one. --Zakronian (talk) 15:47, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry. It is hard to run an encyclopedia on democratic principles ignoring the power of argument. In addition, the absence of the academic arbitration is the cause of this endless dispute. But this is how Wikipedia is organized. I wrote long texts at other places about this, and received little understanding in return. Probably because the amateur scientists or as I call them "Googwik Scientists" (people who get their "scientific" knowledge mainly through Google and Wikipedia) are in majority. I would declare as a qualifying criterion for the people who want to change these pages to have read all 5 existing tertiary sources about Alexander III. Unfortunately this will certainly not receive much support. For Zakronian: the term "vandalism" is valid Wikipedia term, nothing personal.Draganparis (talk) 17:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Spare me the rants. There are three terms to account for: "Alexander's generals", "Alexander's successors" and "Macedonian generals", the last also (if not mostly) used to refer to the inner circle of Macedonian-by-origin figures, obviously the one to avoid in view of possible disputes. Your synthesis serves no purpose there other than to push a view that already failed to establish consensus, pretty limited use to even think of backing it that way. Had enough of pseudoexperts like you.--Zakronian (talk) 19:02, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Obvious militant nationalistic approach with insulting tendencies. I know that the problem is hard and that political bias combined with ignorance is quite “redoutable” opponent. The editor may want to resolve the dispute, or let the politically organised group subsist amid history pages on Wikipedia. For some time…Draganparis (talk) 10:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Zakronian removed my comments form his “talk” and my comment just above, from this “discussion” and is trying to hide the history of the discussion?! I have to warn Zakronian that removing the other people’s comment that he/she does not like does not remove them completely and they stay in “history”. Let alone that this is illegal and presents an immoral act and breach of the rules of Wikipedia and may lead to permanent expulsion from the site. Please don’t do it again.Draganparis (talk) 15:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Zakronian removes other people comments from Wikipedia. This is illegal. Zakronian must be prevented to edit Wikipedia pages. HELP VANDALISMDraganparis (talk) 08:54, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war 

message: Britannica, Seleucid kingdom, 2008, O.Ed.
The Seleucid kingdom was a major centre of Hellenistic culture, which maintained the preeminence of Greek customs and manners over the indigenous cultures of the Middle East. A Greek-speaking Macedonian aristocratic class dominated the Seleucid state throughout its history, although this dominance was most strongly felt in the urban areas. Resistance to Greek cultural hegemony peaked during the reign of Antiochus IV (175–163),
--Xenovatis (talk) 10:05, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. Thanks.Draganparis (talk) 08:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Britannica 

message: I would hate to revive an old and inflamed debate, but I actually think that the introduction is somewhat imprecise.
The Seleucid Empire /sə'lusɪd/ (312 - 63 BC) was a Hellenistic empire, i.e. a successor state of Alexander the Great's empire.
Hellenistic states are not equivalent with the successor states of Alexander's Empire. (Or Diadoch state, after the Diadochs, who were Alexander's generals.) 
And in this specific case, there is good reason to promote that these Diadoch states were Macedonian states, as opposed to Greek. The Ptolemies, Antigonids and Seleucids were all Macedonian on the male side - which was what mainly counted then and still does for whatever royalty remains in the world today - until the very end (except for the children of Cleopatra VII, whose fathers were Roman generals). All the Diadochs except Eumenes of Cardia were Macedonians. There were other Hellenistic states, such as the Pergamene or Bactrian, whose kings were possibly of ethnic Greek origin. Non-Greek but Hellenised states like Bithynia and Cappadocia are also frequently referred to as Hellenistic, and even the early Parthians and Hasmoneans were partly Hellenistic kings (for one reference see Aspects of Hellenistic Kingship (Studies in Hellenistic Civilization VII), Aarhus University Press, 1996, which contains essays on Parthian, Bithynian and Hasmonean kings). 
Pyrrhus of Epirus - who was Alexander's second cousin once removed - was apparently a Hellenistic king, especially as he was briefly king of Macedonia as well. While Epirus was without Alexander's empire, it was held by a related dynasty and hellenised in the same manner as 
Classical authors such as Justin often refer to the Seleucids as Macedonians (cf Epitome, 41.4), even when setting them against such apparently Hellenistic entities as the Graeco-Bactrian kingdom.
For once, I think it would be misleading not to add that the Seleucid Empire was a Macedonian Hellenistic Empire, especially as the successors states were extremely centered around their dynasties. This has absolutely nothing to do with the unsubstantiated claims that ancient Macedonians are related to their modern namesakes. Sponsianus (talk) 00:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your support. Although I think that your argumentation is wrong, your conclusion is right. A dynasty does not determine the nature of an empire. In the ancient times and even in our modern times the dynasties are very often not of the same ethnic origin as the inhabitants of the states, but the states may be still strongly nationalistic. This in spite of the fact that the sovereign does NOT belong to the nation. British empire had (and the Great Britain still has) a German dynasty. Whether Macedonian Argeides were of Greek origin is disputed, but the Macedonian state was very nationalistic “Macedonian kingdom”. Indeed the empires are made up of various peoples but their state organisation, particularly political, military and financial structures were in the hands of the empire building people and in the time of the Ancient Macedonian these were almost exclusively the Macedonians. So, the empire of Alexander III and Diadochi was a “Macedonian Empire” par excellence. Therefore it will be correct to continue to call them “Macedonian” and avoid “Hellenistic” which implies cultural and not political organisation. Culturally the Rome was a “Hellenistic empire” also – which would be of course absurd to say. The Third Reich tried to mix cultural and political values with the intention not only to unify “Germanic race” but to impose a domination of the Germanic people over all other who belonged to “Germanic race”. Similar tendencies could be seen in introducing “Hellenism” or “Hellenistic” there where the correct term would be “Macedonian”.Draganparis (talk) 09:57, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is strange that expression "Macedonian" seams to be replaced by the expression "Greek" at many places. Is this here the case also? Both "Greek" and "Hellenism" are of modern date. With Alexander the Great and later (to the Roman occupation) the entire modern Greece land was Macedonian empire, not Greece! The territory of modern Greece was separated at least into Hellas (south), Tesali, Epirus and some other regions irrelevant here (see "Byzantine themas")and - Macedonia and Thrace (in the north). This was a great empire, too great to be removed from history so easily. Can somebody, some historian of profession verify this? Discussion of the article shows that some "vandalism" has taken place and the discussion deteriorated considerably to kind of offensive intimidation. Could some administrator intervene from time to time help avoid impolite interventions. Wikipedia must remain a reliable and decent source of evidence. Herodotus1A (talk) 20:07, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted to the version that I introduced, the previous version being confusing (reference to the Persian Empire) and inexact, in particular because of not mentioning Macedonian Empire and political connotations that it obviously had. The changes are based on the extended discussion already present and abundant literature, for example Edson C. Imperium Macedonicum: The Seleucide Empire and the literary evidence, Classical Philology LIII: 153-170, July 1958, or Billows, A. R. Kings and Colonists, Aspects of Macedonian Imperialism, EJ Brill, 1995; Billows, A. R. Antigonos the One-Eyed and the creation of the Hellenictic state, University of California Press, 1990.; Ashley, JR: The Macedonian Empire: The Era of Warfare Under Philip II and Alexander theGreat 359-.323 B.C. Mcfarland & Co Inc, New edition (April 2004); John D. Grainger, JD, Alexander the Great Failure: The Collapse of the Macedonian Empire, Hambledon Continuum, 2009; Arthur Mapletoft Curteis, MA: Rise of the Macedonian Empire, Cambridge Scholars Publishing, 2009. Please do not undo this scholarly correction.Simple100 (talk) 21:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Finaly somebody resonable. Thanks.Draganparis (talk) 12:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Hellenistic, Macedonian or Diadoch?

message: Section 2 seems to duplicate the content in section 4. I haven't tracked   down how this arose in the history of the article, but it needs to be fixed.    DGG ( talk ) 00:43, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: duplication

message: The fact that the Seleucid king Antiochus XII Dionysus was killed by the Nabateans in 87 BC, the death of his army by starvation and the establishment of Nabatean rule over Damascus before Armenians, seems to be ignored in the article? Makeandtoss (talk) 23:31, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Nabateans

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article caption says "greatest extent prior to the Seleucid–Mauryan war", whereas the file description itself says 281 BCE. The map is sourced, but it seems to include the territory that Seleucus I had ceded to Chandragupta Maurya before 301 BCE, in addition to the territory in Anatolia which (according to the body of this page) he gained between 301 and 281 BCE. Therefore, I think the caption may need a re-write. -Avantiputra7 (talk) 04:52, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map caption 

message: This seems worth mentioning:
:"In the chaos that followed the death of Alexander the Great in Babylon in 323 BCE, all this changed. One of Alexander’s Macedonian generals, who would go on to win an enormous kingdom stretching from Bulgaria to Afghanistan, introduced a new system for reckoning the passage of time. It is known, after him, as the Seleucid Era. This was the world’s first continuous and irreversible tally of counted years. It is the unheralded ancestor of every subsequent era system, including the Christian Anno Domini system, our own Common Era, the Jewish Era of Creation, the Islamic Hijrah, the French Revolutionary Era, and so on."
From: https://aeon.co/essays/when-time-became-regular-and-universal-it-changed-history  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.21.112.227 (talk) 12:29, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Selucid Era

message: Thank you to User:Cattette for the introduction of a new, better map . But why does the map have to be so pale? It is almost difficult to read... Shouldn't the colors be boosted or contrast increased for better readability? What do other contributors think? पाटलिपुत्र Pat  (talk) 15:30, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the colors look good and make the map visually pleasing, but it still seems a bit unclear. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:50, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: User:पाटलिपुत्र, User:HistoryofIran I think they look fine, but I won't be unreasonable. I made the Seleucid color a few shades more saturated. Cattette (talk) 17:43, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

text: I think the proposed maps looks better, but I personally don't see any issues with the Achaemenid Empire map, perhaps another version of the map might change my mind? --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:28, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

text: I dunno if it's just me. But before I click on the Achaemenid map, it looks kinda.. burnt for a lack of better word. But when I click on it so it zooms it looks much better. Up to you if you wanna add it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:53, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, good point, I hadn't seen that (it's less exagerated than some of the map on Internet...). Mauryan territory probably should not go much beyond Kandahar (Alexandria Arachosia), which is considered as Maurya territory essentially because of Ashoka's Kandahar Bilingual Rock Inscription. We'll have to wait for the mapmaker for modifications: pinging  पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 19:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The inaccuracy derives from the map :File:Hellenistic world and Maurya Empire 281 BCE.png, which in turn, it says, is based on this map Joppen's map for high school children in British India, 1907.  I have Joppen lying somewhere here.  I'll add its details soon. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:12, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean.. if someone could convert the image to a nice svg, I could easily make any changes needed for the map. I believe there is some sort of board in Commons that can do that? --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:42, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Pale new map

message: I would like to thank again User:Cattette for the quality of his new maps (example above)! Still, after so many months, I keep being surprised by how pale and faint they look like, which, beyond being simply an aesthetic issue, also makes them quite difficult to read and comprehend. Isn't this "paleness" way beyond anything that is usually accepted in map-making? Is it the result of different computer settings, or a personal design choice? For comparison, I am attaching an alternative proposal, the same creation with boosted contrast and lower brightness, which, to me at least, would seem like a more normal, and much more readable, rendering (some other maps by Cattette like this one or this one also seem to be much more vivid). What do other contributors think? पाटलिपुत्र Pat  (talk) 19:44, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the proposed maps looks better, but I personally don't see any issues with the Achaemenid Empire map, perhaps another version of the map might change my mind? --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:28, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

text: I dunno if it's just me. But before I click on the Achaemenid map, it looks kinda.. burnt for a lack of better word. But when I click on it so it zooms it looks much better. Up to you if you wanna add it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:53, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, good point, I hadn't seen that (it's less exagerated than some of the map on Internet...). Mauryan territory probably should not go much beyond Kandahar (Alexandria Arachosia), which is considered as Maurya territory essentially because of Ashoka's Kandahar Bilingual Rock Inscription. We'll have to wait for the mapmaker for modifications: pinging  पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 19:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The inaccuracy derives from the map :File:Hellenistic world and Maurya Empire 281 BCE.png, which in turn, it says, is based on this map Joppen's map for high school children in British India, 1907.  I have Joppen lying somewhere here.  I'll add its details soon. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:12, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean.. if someone could convert the image to a nice svg, I could easily make any changes needed for the map. I believe there is some sort of board in Commons that can do that? --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:42, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: These maps are still so pale...

message: Cited twice but with no further information: anyone got any idea what it might be? This paper has the right author and date, but the wrong page numbers and, as far as I can see, subject matter. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 10:40, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chaniotis 2006? 

message: I fixed the preceded country link to the macedonia empire page. Unfriendly770 (talk) 16:29, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  I fixed content