Talk:Operation Toucan (KGB)

message: Operation Toucan is a Canadian mission in East Timor.  The only reference to a KGB plot by this name on google seems to be a Frontpage magazine article from January that is copied practically verbatim here.  So there are copyright violation issues as well as notability issues.  I also think it's all a bit strange; no doubt Pinochet's notorious human rights record had a lot more to do with the movement against him than this KGB plot.  Finally, the comparison to Cuba seems completely unnecessary here and was only introduced to reflect a particular political bias.  69.234.178.114 00:03, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The FPM article is based off the source given on the page, Andrew. Any similarities are purely coincidental. The article does not state that the anti Pinochet movement was a KGB creation, just that the KGB was organizing significant elements within it and producing forged documents to link DINA's activities to the CIA. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 01:20, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know I will be accused of "stalking" for noticing this page, but my regard for truth makes it impossible to say nothing, and it outweighs my fear of TDC's personal attacks.  First, the anon is correct about the Canadian mission.  Most google hits point there, and all lexis/nexis hits point there rather than the alleged KGB plot.  This page should be renamed "Operation TOUCAN (alleged KGB plot)" and "Operation TOUCAN" should point to the Canadian mission as per wikipedia policy.  Second, it is clear that TDC is not telling the truth about "any similarities" being "purely coincidental"; this sentence is copied verbatim from the Frontpage review.  It's not a big deal, but of course it is bad form to "coincidentally" copy sentences word for word from articles you don't cite (were this a student paper, I'd include a stern warning about plagiarism in my comments).  Third, the article incorrectly characterizes the operation as "so successful" -- according to every review I've looked at of Mitrokhin's book, the Soviet operations in Latin America were dismal failures, and the KGB employees who carried them out are described as "laughably incompetent."  It is fine to include information that the book claims that there were only such-and-such as many NYT articles on the topic, but it is incorrect to directly attribute that to the operation the way the Frontpage magazine article implies (and, of course, the NYT stuff comes directly out of the frontpage article).  It's hardly a measure of "success" of the operation.  Finally, the article (and the one on Mitrokhin, which I will check soon) should have some indication that his work is not "gospel" (to quote TDC); while noticed a bit in the media, historians have raised serious questions about his claims, which are mostly unverifiable.  According to the American Historical Review, "Mitrokhin was a self-described loner with increasingly anti-Soviet views . . . Maybe such a potentially dubious type (in KGB terms) really was able freely to transcribe thousands of documents, smuggle them out of KGB premises, hide them under his bed, transfer them to his country house, bury them in milk cans, make multiple visits to British embassies abroad, escape to Britain, and then return to Russia, and carry the voluminous work to the west, all without detection by the KGB . . . It may all be true. But how do we know?"  Now, that said, I have not read that book, and Chile is not my expertise, so I don't expect to become a very active editor on this page, but it is now on my watchlist and I plan to press for the above relatively minor changes.--csloat 19:12, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operation Toucan is a Canadian mission in East Timor. 

message: Relevant information belongs in that article. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 02:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so, not if the precedent version of the article claims that the CIA had nothing to do in Operation Condor, which was the point of "Operation Toucan", wasn't it? Tazmaniacs 04:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article makes not determination whether the CIA was or was not invloved in CONDOR, only that this particular KGB operation was using forged documents to link the two. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 18:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not contest that, but the article should clearly states that the CIA was indeed involved, because articles are supposed to be independent & not stating that is not straightforward. Tazmaniacs 10:27, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why, when the article is not about the CIA? Torturous Devastating Cudgel 15:10, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article is not about Condor

message: I removed this unsourced sentence:
:In 1976, at the start of TOUCAN, The New York Times published 66 articles on Chile's human rights record and four on Cambodia's Khmer Rouge and only 3 such articles on the human rights situation in Cuba. 
Moscowdreams (talk) 13:03, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: removed sentence

message: This article don't have a riables sources, the operation toucan could be a literature fabrication. The most riable source is the 
"The Mitrokhin Archive II: The KGB in the World" https://books.google.cl/books?id=AQ9uAAAAQBAJ&pg=PR88&dq=Operation+Toucan&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjpn5Gh4o_sAhXcCrkGHVXRCy4Q6AEwAXoECAYQAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
 But still be a commentary and notes of a UK agent. Not for entire wikipedia article.--Fitmoos (talk) 02:16, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  sources 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:25, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion