Talk:Public switched telephone network

message: Moved POTS to a separate page because the services are provided at the end of the network.
POTS, or  Plain Old Telephone Service, describes the services available on analog telephones. This is a subset of what is available on ISDN and mobile telephones.
post Procsperco (talk) 14:52, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  POTS 

message: Shouldn't public switched telephone network be capitalized in the article? 144.118.58.229 06:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See the 'Article titles' section of Manual of Style for details. 'Bauani' • Talk2me 11:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Public Switched Telephone Network, like "Internet", is a proper noun referring specifically to a certain, albeit large, switched telephone network -- which is to say, one that is *not* AUTOVON/DSN, etc, etc.  It should, in fact, carry upstyle capitalization for that reason.--Baylink (talk) 22:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I more or less agree, but you're going to have trouble trying to convince others of that opinion though for example the majority of edu and ac.uk sites seem to capitalise. See for example Internet_capitalization_conventions for how the telephone network is used to support lowercase usage of "Internet": ...some things that are unique yet distributed, such as "the power grid", "the telephone network", and even "the sky", are not considered proper nouns, and are thus not capitalized. On the other hand, the article's name is more of a proper noun than "the telephone network" due to the nearly official name "public switched telephone network", which is however still only a descriptive name i.e. common noun as long as there's no main office or any kind of central organisation. In fact, "the Internet" is (or was) probably only capitalised to differentiate it from (generic) internets i.e. internetworks. And there are no other public switched telephone networks that are generic. --Espoo (talk) 17:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  RE: Capitalization Question 

message: What if there's another "World War" or military conflict among more than one countries; how will that affect the International Gateways?
Will it have some significant effect on our Internet?
88.105.55.192 13:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wartime Situations/World War 

message: This entire section of the article is not written in a particularly encyclopedic tone. Lordhatrus (talk) 14:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  In several places the direct or implied assertions presuppose a causality that lacks verifiable source citations, or appears to lack neutrality in that it is written as a narrative rather than a purely descriptive account.  I added a  template to the section.  Unfortunately, I lack the verifiable sources necessary to clean up the section.  Perhaps the template can cue someone else can help further. — Dgtsyb (talk) 17:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  French Telephone Switch Hierarchy 

message: OK - I've bitten the bullet and re-organised the material.  The article was dominated by a description of the hierachies which swamped the other material.  I've now put that in another article called PSTN network topology.  It still needs boiling down over there but at least it makes sense in its own page.
I believe now we've got a cleaner base to build out more details of the PSTN, perhaps to include things like interconnect, different carrier/operator types, relationship to the internet, standards used in its construction, political and social issues pertaining to the PSTN etc. ChrisUK (talk) 17:04, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bitten the bullet 

message: The audio codec used on the north american PSTN is ulaw or G.711u not linear PCM.  66.114.93.6 (talk) 12:17, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed that. Although the definition in Pulse code modulation doesn't appear to leave much room for it, G.711 is a type of or variation of PCM. --Kvng (talk) 13:48, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: G.711 is a companding codec.  On the PSTN, sample resolution is initially (or is sampled at) 12 or 13 bits linear PCM, then companded to fit into 8 bits.  It can be thought of a mild form of lossless compression.  Once the audio is companded, it is now non-linear PCM.  (Hence the variation)  I guess whenever someone writes of thinks of PCM, it implies the more popular linear PCM, like that of a CD.   For better clarity, I like to use/see the inclusion of "non linear PCM", companding, etc. or remove the word PCM altogether.  66.114.93.6 (talk) 16:00, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That's definitely a legitimate and modern way to look at it. The original implementations of these systems used an analog compressor and a linear 8-bit converter or a non-linear 8-bit converter. In this context, perhaps you'll appreciate that such an implementation looks less like a separate encoding process and more like an alternate (non-linear) PCM system. --Kvng (talk) 20:52, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Think of it this way.  In a line card, there is a DAC.  The target is 8 bits, but liniear PCM has too much quantization noise so they compand it.  DACs can't sample non-linearly, so the DAC is a 12 bit sampler.  Then software then compands the adudio to fit into 8 bits.  That's how G.711 works.  Now say if you're on VoIP and using compressed codec like G.729.  It's a compression of the raw 12 bit PCM stream of the DAC, not re-compressing of the G.711 as most tend to think.  66.114.93.6 (talk) 21:38, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I appreciate that's how it works today. But in the early days of digital audio, there was no such thing as a 12-bit ADC - this was a means of getting the most possible out of the 8-bit ADCs. ---Kvng (talk) 01:26, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm with Kvng -- we both agree with 66.114.93.6 that *today* it's hard to find a non-linear DAC, so most systems use a 12 bit DAC, or better, that produces linear pulse-code modulation, then that data is companded to 8 bits. However, as described in the μ-law algorithm and analog-to-digital converter#Response type, in the early days people sampled 8 bit data directly with a non-linear 8-bit DAC (perhaps built out of an analog compandor feeding a linear 8-bit DAC). I agree that today "PCM" alone almost always means linear pulse-code modulation. I hope the "nonlinear PCM" phrasing "8-bit resolution using a special type of nonlinear pulse code modulation known as G.711" makes everyone happy. --DavidCary (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good with me. --Kvng (talk) 15:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article states 8 bit PCM is used. 

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Jafeluv (talk) 10:43, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
I changed caps in the lead to match caps in the title. ~KvnG 23:34, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: Routing in the PSTN doesn't contain enough information to warrant having its own page, but it's definitely important enough to warrant merging back into Public switched telephone network as a new section. Nathan2055talk - contribs 00:17, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Routing in the PSTN is 8,355 bytes and Public switched telephone network is 11,055 bytes. The proposal paints a different picture. ~Kvng (talk) 19:21, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Support merge per nom, given that the sum of the page lengths (without even accounting for the readable prose correction, and 11k+8k = approx 20k) is much less than 40k, so length alone does not justify division. Klbrain (talk) 12:15, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

text: I'm concerned about a potential WP:UNDUE issue here since Routing in the PSTN and Public switched telephone network have similar sizes. I'm not concerned enough to weigh in with an objection but concerned enough that I'd like to hear how this could be addressed before weighing in with support. ~Kvng (talk) 13:16, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I've deleted the contested section (apart from one referenced section) which now means that Routing in the PSTN is of a more digestible size and should fit neatly into Public switched telephone network, as a separate section above the Technology section (I suggest). Klbrain (talk) 14:47, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  given that you've reversed the deletion (for reasons I understand), I wonder if you could comment here on the merge. Also, isn't it better to just delete that section and link to routing where such general background is better developed (rather than maintain/improve a poor duplicate)? Klbrain (talk) 13:51, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted to the 10th August version; I maintain support for the merge. Klbrain (talk) 13:56, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of [[Routing in the PSTN]] into [[Public switched telephone network]] 

message: Should the opening sentence remove "circuit-switched" and instead simply say "... world's switched telephone networks..." to more accurately reflect the current and future state of the PSTN?
"The public switched telephone network (PSTN) is the aggregate of the world's switched telephone networks that are operated by national, regional, or local telephony operators, providing infrastructure and services for public telecommunication."
If not, then the following sentence should be modified to provide the name of whatever the global telephone network is now called since many operators would no longer be a part of the PSTN since they are moving from circuit-switched to packet-switched telephony in both their core network and access lines:
"Originally a network of fixed-line analog telephone systems, the PSTN is now almost entirely digital in its core network and includes mobile[1] and other networks, as well as fixed telephones.[1]"
Isthismiclive (talk) 07:17, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The manner to resolve this is not by more opinion but by providing reliable references that explain the state of the matter and contemporary understanding. The existing article is certainly already weak in such sources, and a more authoritative foundation is desirable. Kbrose (talk) 16:19, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the PSTN really just limited to the circuit-switched telephony operators? 

message: Many countries are currently in the process of winding-down/retiring their analogue last mile PSTN/POTS services, including New Zealand, UK, Iceland, Belgium and more. They are replaced by VoIP services. 
Maybe there is a case to open a section on this page or even a new page for the 'Retirement of PSTN by country', similar to 'Digital television transition' Drumstick21 (talk) 18:24, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Use your research and writing skills. Retirement of POTS is certainly an aspect of the modern PSTN, really the last remaining segment of the old PSTN. Long-haul routes have long been VoIP-provisioned or have used other fiber-based technologies. kbrose (talk) 18:33, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I've started an article at United Kingdom PSTN switch-off. Are any other countries doing/have done similar things? — The Anome (talk) 15:35, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retirement of PSTN/POTS 

message: Speaking of the global PSTN, I'd be fascinated to know how VoIP-based telcos interconnect with other countries which still have circuit-switched telecoms systems -- if there are any, that is; are international circuit-switched trunks still a thing, or is international interconnection all VoIP now? 
I'm thinking of places like Bhutan, Chad, etc, which are generally late on the uptake of new technologies. Do they have large-scale VoIP gateways for this? Would it be, for example, cheaper for a UK telco to haul VoIP traffic to a nearny international PoP and present it to the local telco via a VoIP gateway there? Or do they do TDM-over-IP to these locations and have a UK-based VoIP gateway, and just a couple of routers and plug-in 1U Ethernet IP-to-TDM boxes at the far end? — The Anome (talk) 15:34, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  International PSTN interconnect: how? 

message: The article uses the phrase "almost entirely digital in its core network". Is anyone aware of any copper long-distance trunks still existing, anywhere in the world, even in countries such as Somalia? Forget technology transition; copper thieves will have done the job by now, and it's an absolute no-brainer to put cheap and worthless-if-stolen fibre in its place, even if it's just something like an E1. 2A00:23C8:72A8:E001:DF46:CAB9:102C:4B0 (talk) 15:46, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "almost entirely digital in its core network"