Talk:List of Germans

message: This part of the list is of very poor quality. At the moment it is a random collection of names (pop and rock groups, singers, conductors, instrumentalists), some famous, some not known at all. Is Christian Wunderlich (actor and singer) so important that he should feature in  the "top 100" of German musicians? What about Fritz Wunderlich instead? Suggestions:
* divide list into sections: pop and rock groups, singers, conductors, instrumentalists
* only list names of international importance
* only list names if there is an articel in Wikipedia
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.188.232.97 (talk • contribs) 
:I agree, there are names on the list that are at most a temporary local phenomenon with no national or international influence at all and it smells a bit like the put themselves on the list (an apparently popular form of vandalism/spam). Most germans probably don't know most of them for more than a lack of general knowledge.80.171.18.19 (talk) 14:47, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: List of Musicians and Singers needs revision

message: I think List of Germans should be moved to List of famaous German. We don´t have to list anybody and if I take a look at the portugese, german and italian wikipedia article name we should really rename it. --ckorff 12:03, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not necessarily, take a look at List of Swedes or List of Austrians - these are good models for a list of ... .Themanwithoutapast 20:47, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: So can random people in Germany add their name to the list? billybobfred 03:43, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Moving the List of Germans to List of famous Germans?

message: Could we change "Sportspersons" to "Athletes"? -- Zoe
:I prefer "sportsperson" (even though it is a bit ugly) because "athlete" has a specific use (and even in a more general sense, it suggests something which requires strength, speed or stamina, ie not golf...:) --Camembert
::Not in my idiolect.  Sportsperson isn't even a real word!  -- Zoe
:::To me, at least, "athlete" implies... well, athletics. Running, jumping, all that. But "sportsperson" implies... well, a person who does any sport! "Athlete" doesn't cover footballers or rugby players or whatever. Sven945 09:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Changing "Sportspersons" to "Athletes"?

message: it seems pointless to list Hitler as a war criminal. Are we then going to list all the nazi leaders as war criminals? where will it end? the man was a dictator-that sums it up pretty clear
Unfortunately, whilst I'm sure many would like to do this, assuming "dictator" implies "war criminal" is considered biased (even though this may often be the case), so the two must, in the encylopaedic spirit, be considered mutually exclusive.  Equally, we can't assume that everyone knows who Hitler was. 209.93.147.141 (talk) 17:20, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Listing Hitler as war criminal pointless?

message: I very much doubt whether Anne Frank is a famous german. In the Netherlands we see her as a dutch jewish person, but I am not aware of her formal nationality. 
:Well, her family was from Germany, where she was born. They moved to Holland when Anne was very young. Ethnically, she was German. --Gabbe 15:41 Dec 30, 2002 (UTC)
::ethnically?? The Frank family fled from Germany due to discrimination.
ethnically?? I would just write that she´s born here so listing her would be okay. --ckorff 12:03, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Why should accurate information be removed?  Wouldn't it make more sense to add more non-Nazis and non-royalty, than to take out correct information? john 08:59, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: We're not here to advertise Germany, we're here to describe it. That's what Wikipedia is for. billybobfred 03:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Since Wikipedia concerns freedom of information, anyone who has any chance of being considered German should be listed here.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.93.147.141 (talk) 17:23, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Anne Frank

message: It seems there are some issues about who qualifies as German. It seems clear that the article is about people of German nationality (as opposed to people of German language or people who lived in Germany); maybe we should explicitly say so. 
Three sample cases that might cause confusion:
* Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart -- should clearly be in the list. Unlike often assumed, he was not Austrian. Even if he had been, Austria still belonged to Germany at the time of his life.
* Franz Schubert -- similar issue; he was Austrian, and Austria was a part of Germany when he was born, although not when he died.
* Immanuel Kant -- generally regarded as German (he lived in a city where German was spoken and wrote in German), but actually the area where he lived did not belong to the Holy Roman Empire and he never even set foot into Germany. His nationality was Prussian; while Prussia later became a part of Germany, it was not during Kant's time.
I would propose: Let's be clear that we are talking about legal nationality. For people born between the 16th century and 1806: they are German if they have the nationality of a state of the Holy Roman Empire. For people born in 1871 and later: they are German if they have the nationality of the German Empire or the Federal Republic of Germany or the German Democratic Republic.  
Problematic cases:
* People who lived in the Holy Roman Empire before it became to be considered "German" (around the 16th century). We probably should distinguish between German, Italian, Bohemian, and other parts of the HRE and include only the German part.
* People who lived 1806-1871, when no "Germany" existed. Two possibilities: a) consider citizens of those countries that later joined the German Empire as "German"; b) consider citizens of territories that were members of the German Confederation as German. Austria would be the most important difference.
--Chl 18:56, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition of German

message: Definition of German is much more difficult then you think. You forgot the the most terrible example: Hitler. The Austrians try to make him a German, but he was born in Austria, and he was grown up there to. Thats reason why i deleted him from your list. I think its not in the intrest of wikipedia to ignore this truth, even when its popular. Sorry for my poor english, but I'm (take a guess...) German.
:Certainly, the crucial question is how to define Austrians and Germans. Nevertheless, in my opinion Hitler was both, Austrian and German. He was Austrian because, as you rightly pointed out, he was born and raised in Austria. He was German, because he got the German citizenship and was chancellor of Germany. This resembles in some way to Arnold Schwarzenegger who can be regarded as an American and as Austrian as well, since he was born and raised in Austria, but at the same time is an naturalized US-citizen and the governor of California. Nobody would erase Arnold Schwarzenegger from the list of famous US-Americans. Therefore I included Adolf Hitler in the article. Gugganij 22:51, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The case of Adolf Hitler

message: please add to the list
* Hugo von Trimberg
* Süßkind von Trimberg
* Michael Spindler
* Max Wien
: --Sheynhertzגעשׁ״ך 16:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  In the List? 

message: Adolf Hitler was NOT German, I repeat, was not. He was born near Linz, Austria (Osterreich), and last time I checked, that was a separate nation in 1889, and remains to this day. He just considered himself German. Hitler should be removed from that list. Эрон Кинней 22:14, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: He was naturalized and later became chancellor of Germany. Quite strong evidence, isn't it?. Gugganij 00:12, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really. His blood was Austrian, and naturalizing him as a citizen can't change it. Эйрон Кинни (t) 11:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So what you're saying is that it's the purity of the blood that counts?  How ironic... --Corinthian 17:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  For sure that counts in this article! This article is about ETHNIC Germans.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.94.186.41 (talk) 20:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitler was not German 

message: I don't believe its fair to list men like Erwin Rommel under the Nazi headline.  Was he a famous person in Germany during Hitler's reign? Yes.  Was he a Nazi? No, and he gave his life proving that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.82.28.90 (talk • contribs)  
:I also don't think Rommel was a Nazi, but he didn't die to prove that. After the attempted coup on July 20th the Nazis asked him to either commit suicide or watch his family be killed. He chose his family and killed himself.--134.130.4.46 14:25, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion of non-Nazi's in the Nazi list 

message: The list of Poles contains "Mikolaj Kopernik" (since January 2003, shortly after that list was created), and many others like "Jan Heweliusz". As long as these claims are made, Nikolaus Kopernikus, Johannes Hevelius etc. deserve to be mentioned on the List of Germans, too. -- Matthead discuß!     O       19:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would seem fair to list disputed people like Copernicus in both lists, yes. john k 20:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to see modern sources that clearly state he was German.  That would justify including him on this list. Balcer 20:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The List_of_Polish_people#Astronomy continues to include these two German-speaking astronomers. They need to be re-added here, after having been removed by Polish edit-warriors in 2007. -- Matthead  Discuß   15:36, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copernicus & Hevelius 

message: 1. Gebhard Leberecht von Blücher (1742-1819). 
2. Helmuth von Moltke (the Elder), 1800-91. 
Norvo (talk) 17:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Essential Additions to the Military List 

message: Mozart is Austrian! Nobody in their right mind follows the silly historically based logic given for including him on this list. Salzburg was an independent country ruled by an archbishop at that time now it is a province in Austria. Austria claims Salzburg as Austrian history just like Bavaria is German history... Austria claims him and should. Germany today does not and should not. Nobody claims that all Austrians are really German or still German? Silly. I mean by that logic all Austrians born at the time when the nation was part of the German Bund are German. Austrian nationality is based on political history. They may be ethnic Germans but they have a different political and cultural history than Germany. Are the USA and Canada the same? no either.
Can you tell me when Salzburg was part of the modern German Reich?
This is wrong. Not real history.
This site is looking awful silly if Mozart on this list. Sounds and smacks of nasty pan-German or neo-nazism too me.
nonsense. total nonsense.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.82.3.26 (talk) 03:15, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mozart is Austrian 

message: German inventions, from the thermometer, to telephone (yes), to car, to the first rocket in space, to the mp3, have no doubt impacted humanity significantly.  There should be a separate section, and not just have some of them lumped in with "others". Lars2701 (talk) 16:09, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In some fashion, I agree, there should be a heading ... whether it is scientists, inventors, or something other.--Epeefleche (talk) 20:39, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  There should be a section of German Inventors 

message: Some of the comments above are intensely legalistic and, to cap it all, apply the wrong laws or inappropriate laws. Since the first half of the C19, the key decider of a person's legal nationality in many German states, including Prussia and Bavaria, has been the father's nationality, if known, otherwise the mother's. Rigidly applying the American criterion of place of birth produces anomalies and absurdities.
Using the criterion of 'born or not born in the Holy Roman Empire' produces absurdities galore:  for example, Mozart was born within the HRE and so was Jan Hus but they are generally regarded as Austrian and Czech respectively ... At this rate poor Kant is going get classed as a Russian philosopher! Attention needs to be paid to whether or not Germans generally regard the individuals concerned as German. Anthing else will produce nonsense. Norvo (talk) 17:30, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inappropriate Defintions of German 

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