Talk:Rodina (political party)

message: Would this mix of nationalism and socialism be considered a Nazi party?
-G
The Russian word Rodina is a generic word for Motherland, without any other additional meaning. Just like any other word it can be used in a political speech, but there is nothing special about it. The article is wrong to imply otherwise. The It lies in stark contrast to "Fatherland" which is used by Russia now is flat wrong. There is no contrast. Both words are in use. --Gene s 16:05, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I will rename the article now. Alsh 07:48, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Note that the old discussion is copied from Talk:Motherland (Russia). Alsh 08:56, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments 

message: I think it requires complete obliviousness of politics to keep adding the label ″far-right″ to the infobox of a party that is according to a reliable source ″coalition of 30 nationalist and left-wing″ groups. It's pure nonsense. --Phil070707 (talk) 18:15, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Source is in the article. And the above account is quacking like a sock puppet of Lokalkosmopolit/AdvicePolack/Patriot Donbassa.Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:20, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop it with the "you're a sock puppet" game. I am not and this has no relevance here. As I've said the lead in your version reads idiotic. Rodina or Motherland-National Patriotic Union (Rodina - Narodno-Patrioticheskiy Soyuz, Партия "РОДИНА") is a far-right political party in Russia. It was a coalition of 30 nationalist and left-wing[3] groups. This is pure nonsense. Note that two sources have been presented that classify Rodina as "left-wing".  Phil070707 (talk) 18:28, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edit history says otherwise. And this is Russia so actually being both "left wing" and "right wing" is entirely possible. See National Bolshevism, see Alexander Dugin etc. But you're already familiar with this issue and with those articles.Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:43, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I offered as a reasonable compromise to leave just ″nationalist″ in the lede. It's you who keeps preventing finding any decent/stable version. ONLY ″Far-right″ in the infobox would be outright wrong, and additionally, you don't have decent sources for that (one article where Rodina is mentioned once passing-by is not sufficient). In contrast to the sources I've been referring to which are good specialist sources. The fact that you didn't react to constructive proposals like that just underscores that you are not here to improve the article but to have your "revenge". Phil070707 (talk) 18:53, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the article, it is definitely worth reading. You may have noticed that I left the political position empty in my edits. I didn't add left-wing to this place. I don't think the party has changed its direction as drastically as to justify re-classification as "far-right" in the infobox (there are no serious sources for the claim yet, too). I think it's the main text that should reflect more controversial aspects of political parties.Phil070707 (talk) 20:01, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  A left-wing party that is ''far-right''? 

message: There is a disagreement over sources:
#Timothy Snyder, "Fascism, Russia, and Ukraine," The New York Review of Books (20 March 2014). Retrieved 19.12.2014.
#
#
An editor objected to Source 1 being used for the party's position, saying in his/her edit-summary that it is an opinion piece.  However the sources (2 and 3) that he/she put in its place are opinion pieces.
There does not seem to be any evidence that Source 1 is an opinion piece.
On the other hand, Source 2 has a URL that clearly marks it as an opinion piece, and Source 3 is from RT, a source only reliable as statements of the Russian Government opinion.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:04, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Most of the text for this article came from a cut-and-paste move from :Motherland (Russia)  in December 2005, and apparently at that date, people did not worry too much about citations.  (see Motherland (Russia): Revision history and Revision as of 08:36, 29 December 2005.
The version copied into this article in 29 December 2005 started:
:Rodina or Motherland-National Patriotic Union (Rodina - Narodno-Patriotičeskij Sojuz, Партия "РОДИНА") is one of the four parties that control seats in the Russian legislature.  It is a coalition of 30 nationalist and left-wing groups that was established by Dmitry Rogozin, Sergey Glazyev, Sergey Baburin and others in August of 2003, the party's ideology combines nationalist and socialist ideas.
The 27 August 2016 version starts:
:Rodina or Motherland-National Patriotic Union (Rodina - Narodno-Patrioticheskiy Soyuz, Партия "РОДИНА") is a political party in Russia. It was a coalition of 30 nationalist and far-right groups that was established by Dmitry Rogozin, Sergey Glazyev, Sergey Baburin, Viktor Gerashchenko, Georgy Shpak, Valentin Varennikov and others in August 2003.
An IP editor on 28 August 2016 proposed changing the start to:
:Rodina or Motherland-National Patriotic Union (Rodina - Narodno-Patrioticheskiy Soyuz, Партия "РОДИНА") is a political party in Russia. It was a coalition of 30 nationalist and left-wing groups[5] that was established by Dmitry Rogozin, Sergey Glazyev, Sergey Baburin, Viktor Gerashchenko, Georgy Shpak, Valentin Varennikov and others in August 2003.
Source [5] is: Rodina, A Returning Force for Russian Nationalism, by Caroline Barrow,  Jordan Bryant, Molly Godwin-Jones, Garrison Golubock, and Josh Wilson, School of Russian and Asian Studies, 13 August 2013, which says:
:Rodina first began as an electoral bloc called "The People's Patriotic Union of Rodina," uniting about 30 groups for participation in the 2003 Duma elections. Rodina's name is often translated from the Russian as "Motherland," however, in reference to the party, the Russian term, which has specific patriotic overtones, is generally kept.  Many of Russia's smaller nationalist and left-wing (mostly socialist) parties and politicians participated in the bloc. These included The Russian Party of Regions, The Congress of Russian Communities (led by Dmitry Rogozin), The People's Will Party (led by Sergei Baburin), For a Dignified Life (led by Sergei Glazev), and the United Socialist Party of Russia.  Running on a platform that emphasized patriotism, nationalism, and a greater role for the government in the economy and particularly in the natural resources sector, the Rodina bloc took 9% of the vote in 2003. Based on this success, it was decided to merge the bloc into a single political party called the "All-Russian Political Party of Rodina."
The 27 August version cites an article by Timothy Snyder, "Fascism, Russia, and Ukraine," The New York Review of Books (20 March 2014).  This says the following about Rodina:
:The point man for Eurasian and Ukrainian policy in the Kremlin is Sergei Glazyev, an economist who like Dugin tends to combine radical nationalism with nostalgia for Bolshevism. He was a member of the Communist Party and a Communist deputy in the Russian parliament before cofounding a far-right party called Rodina, or Motherland. In 2005 some of its deputies signed a petition to the Russian prosecutor general asking that all Jewish organizations be banned from Russia.
:Later that year Motherland was banned from taking part in further elections after complaints that its advertisements incited racial hatred. The most notorious showed dark-skinned people eating watermelon and throwing the rinds to the ground, then called for Russians to clean up their cities. Glazyev’s book Genocide: Russia and the New World Order claims that the sinister forces of the “new world order” conspired against Russia in the 1990s to bring about economic policies that amounted to “genocide.” This book was published in English by Lyndon LaRouche’s magazine Executive Intelligence Review with a preface by LaRouche. Today Executive Intelligence Review echoes Kremlin propaganda, spreading the word in English that Ukrainian protesters have carried out a Nazi coup and started a civil war.
The socialists and communists should found a so-called "far-right" political party is not particularly surprising.  It was the same with their counter-parts in Italy and Germany in the 1920s.-- Toddy1 (talk) 10:16, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Founding 

message: IP editor  71.187.192.7 cited the following source for Rodina being a left-wing non-fascist party:  «История образования избирательного блока „Родина“»  This is a page from a website that has an English language version: Party Number Four, Rodina: Whence and Why?, Panorama Centre, Moscow, 2006.  I suspect that it is more useful to cite the English language version.  
The document does not really support the IP editor's claim that Rodina was a left-wing block from 2002-2006.  It supports the claim that the block was originally left wing, and changed during 2003.  This was partly due to "Dmitri Rogozin, who gradually turned the bloc from a leftist to a national-patriotic one", partly to "the presence of Sergei Baburin, who at the last moment [early autumn 2003] entered the bloc with his not-at-all-left-wing People’s Will party", and partly due to Rogozin's ally Andrei Saveliev. It says that by February 2006, other Russian political parties described Rodina as fascist.-- Toddy1 (talk) 19:58, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source cited by IP editor  71.187.192.7 

message: I see with your latest revision those guys are clearly not dark-skinned despite the source claiming they are. I apologize. However, Wikipedia still doesn't have a source saying that Rodina was banned, only investigated--so, without pinging you using a reversion, I implemented that relatively small change. Is that okay with you, or do you have a source to claim it was banned? Nuke (talk) 19:20, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I am OK with it saying "investigated".-- Toddy1 (talk) 19:26, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

text: But, there is a cited source that states: "Later that year Motherland was banned from taking part in further elections after complaints that its advertisements incited racial hatred."  It is the first of the sources cited. I do not know whether the claim that Rodina was banned is any more accurate than the claim that the men eating watermelons had dark skins. -- Toddy1 (talk) 19:29, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

text: I have now added a reliable Russian language source that confirms what Snyder says about it being banned from various elections after the well-known advertisement.  I this this justifies restoring the word "banned".-- Toddy1 (talk) 02:21, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banned vs investigated 

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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion