Talk:Raku (programming language)

message: Hi. I maintain Perl 6 and Parrot links. Is it usefull for exernal links?  --mj41 21:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not, but if you get that added to dmoz, then adding a link to dmoz here would be acceptable. Please see WP:NOT for further information. -Harmil 13:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perl 6 links 

message: I just noticed the good article initiative.  The article doesn't make clear the original scope of dissatisfaction with Perl 5 that justified, what, a seven-years-and-counting revision cycle.  Nor is it clear reading the synopsis of language changes which of these changes were considered vital to the goals of the project, nor which of these changes most impacted the length of the project.  Did the original warts run so deep it has taken seven years to remove them?  The one point where that struck me as having potentially consumed a large quantity of intellectual work was the further generalization of regular expressions to regexes.  Surely it wouldn't have taken seven years to accomplish sigil invariance.  Perhaps the closures were also difficult, or just the interaction of so many changes.  Nor does the article address the issue about why all these ambitious changes have been pursued ensemble, without a formal halfway-there release, which many projects of this scope would attempt to achieve.  I'm just saying that the nature of the ambition behind the project doesn't come across in a way you can take home after reading it.  It's a bit like explaining in an article about the space program that the life support and navigation systems, etc. were all challenging to achieve, without making it clear how much that was complicated by the payload restriction dictated by the Saturn V launch vehicle.  In other respects, I felt this article reads quite well.  MaxEnt 03:02, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Try Constraints and Software Development ( chromatic, oreillynet.com blog, 16.8.2007) and others from Perl 6 and Parrot links. --mj41 20:56, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal comments 

message: Someone tagged the sentence "Perl 6 has been under development for over seven years, prompting some commentators to suggest that Perl 6 may be vaporware" with  despite the fact that googling [perl-6 vaporware] reveals thousands of hits on all sorts of different online venues. Obviously a lot of people do consider Perl 6 vaporware. But how does one turn that into a citation by Wikipedia? Is there even any need to provide citation for things that can be verified by anyone with half their wits in 5 seconds? —Aristotle (talk) 06:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's vaporware.
68.183.43.200 (talk) 22:46, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

text: That search contains references to Wikipedia and all its mirrors. A search that excludes Wikipedia and its mirrors results in only 51 hits, not thousands. Also, please don't toss around phrases like "can be verified by anyone with half their wits", especially given that your analysis hasn't been sufficiently rigorous. Mindmatrix 16:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interestingly, conducting the same search a few moments later yields 1230 hits (many duplicates of only a few articles, or links to those articles). My point is still valid though - most searches should be conducted to exclude Wikipedia to find relevant external resources. Mindmatrix 16:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Conceded, but still, that’s merely an exact search for the keywords “Perl 6” and “vaporware”. It does not include the many other ways to express the exact same sentiment without using that word. F.ex., one of Guido’s maxims for the Python3000 effort was “Not Perl 6”, by which he meant “keep a tight grip on scope to avoid an explosion in time-till-completion.” That’s just one example of the ways in which people say “it’s taking forever and might never even finish”, AKA vaporware. Chromatic alone has probably written some two dozen substantial rants about people griping that Perl 6 isn’t done yet. There is no doubt that this sentiment is widely shared, even if it’s not something for which you can point to one easy single citation. If anyone has suggestions about how to deal with that  sensibly (which might mean simply deleting it), I’m all ears. —Aristotle (talk) 21:15, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Probably the best way would be pick two or three representative citations and use those. —Cryptic 21:31, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The vaporware meme doesn't have much to contribute.  The same was once said of Mozilla and PostgreSQL.  Many people in this profession hate slow cooking.  Not every crock pot becomes a crock.  There's certainly an important niche to fill by projects that deliver on a known schedule.  That said, why do we need to give voice to monocrop enthusiasts here?  TMTOWTDI also applies to development models.  Eventually I figured out that there were many consultants out there plying their Perl 5 expertise who started to feel the heat from consultants on rocket ships Ruby/Python.  These people would have preferred more short term effort on Perl 5.  But Perl 5 suffered from first mover syndrome.  This was both an asset and a liability.  I guess the decision was made that the asset of early mover experience had more to offer pursued as an aggressive rewrite.  The real question here is not to take a straw poll of the disgruntled, but to ask whether there's a place in the fast moving IT world for substantive, non-incremental contributions.  Good luck citing that up front with better than fluff speculation. That story might yet be written, depending on how Perl 6 turns out.  (The nay-sayers can wait for the outcome along with the rest of us.)  The negative side was "it will take too long" and the positive side was "it will be worth the wait".  Until the dust settles you can only tell one side of the story.  I'm sure there are some people out there who don't believe that any software that takes more than five years to complete is worth having.  In the energy business, there has been plenty written about self-obsolescent of excessively long procurement cycles.  I'd be the first person to read a substantive paper on the event horizon of language design.  Languages designed too quickly, I've seen a few.  — MaxEnt 18:40, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Let me add another short remark: the sociology of software engineering interests me as much as any topic on earth, but eventually I figured out that the mandate of Wikipedia is not to dabble in interesting things.  If we're not writing about the good stuff (for comprehensible reasons), it grieves me to see it schnuck in on straw polls.  — MaxEnt 19:01, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Considered vaporware" citation 

message: It seems unfair to the merged Py3k article that this article is allowed to be seperate from the main Perl article. I do not know the guidelines, but this discrepancy became apparent to me as the casual reader. Sorry, should I raise old issues here. 
--129.241.135.159 (talk) 15:24, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Python 3k is a cleanup revision similar to say Perl 5.5 -> 5.8 in its scope (at most) while Perl 6 is an entirely different language from Perl 5, it's not appropriate to merge the articles. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 23:51, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

text: One article is unfair to another? What a stupid fanboy notion. -- 98.108.223.60 (talk) 20:01, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Py3k 

message: The image :Image:Programming-republic-of-perl.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Programming-republic-of-perl.png

message: ``Roles in Perl 6 take on the function of interfaces in Java, mixins in Ruby, and traits[18] in the Smalltalk variant Squeak.''
Just put it back in both articles (ruby and this). ktnxbye!
:Why - that statement is not supported by a citation (one is provided for the influence from Traits, but none for Ruby mixins (or Java interfaces). Without a proper citation, this portion of the text will be removed too. (By the way, because two things are comparable does not imply that one influenced the development of the other. It is clear from Apocalypse 12 by Larry Wall that Traits was the influence for Roles.) Mindmatrix 14:43, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I doubt it can be very controversial that roles «take on the function of» mixins – though if it is, I'm reasonably sure a reference can be found for it :) – but to call roles an example of Ruby «influence» on Perl 6, is taking it way too far, for the reasons you give.  As for other Ruby influences, Perl is not terribly worried about where it fits on the Rubyometer.  Ruby will need to worry about where it fits on the Perlometer.  But perhaps Wikipedia also needs to worry? :) — the Sidhekin (talk) 16:14, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  As a Rubyist it seems a bit controversial to me, as this looks like a multiple inheritance scheme, whereas Ruby mixins are dynamic and not declared with the class. Perl doesn't have to "care" about some uncited "Rubyometer," nor does Ruby have to care about a "Perlometer." Is this more like a Ruby mixin, or the general case of multiple inheritance? It is more like the general case, and Perl can go ahead and care so little about the "Rubyometer" as to not have Ruby referenced here. If you really want to talk about Ruby here, talk about how it is different than Ruby mixins, don't do original research claiming they are related. The are both ways of dealing with interfaces, and both allow duck typing, but most languages have these concepts. 24.22.50.193 (talk) 17:20, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ruby influence 

message: A major idea in Perl 6 is the significance of whitespace.  This really should be covered here.  I don't have time to write a fresh section right now, so I'll note it here.  Długosz (talk) 23:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whitespace 

message: A secondary requirement for a correct implementation of quicksort is O(lg(N)) worst case stack usage, which is normally accomplished by recursion into the shorter sub-list and iterating on the longer sublist.  If the Perl 6 language has magic short-side tail recursion, that should be mentioned; if not, we're doing pedagogical damage once again.  That's certainly not what Perl ever stood for.  — MaxEnt 18:08, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quicksort pedagogy 

message: A modification comment stands that «can not -> cannot (they don't mean the same thing)».
So the question is what is the eventual difference between «cannot» and «can not». From my understanding those are two different spellings of the same English verb in its negative form.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.75.160.141 (talk) 20:32, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  can not -> cannot (they don't mean the same thing) 

message: Of course, MIT Curl has both abstract classes and multiple inheritance with many example of mixins/traits in the class hierarchy.  Indeed these are fundamental is to classes used by Curl web and GUI programmers.
see Curl (programming language)
G. Robert Shiplett 00:18, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roles are like Traits or mixins, not Java interfaces  

message: Missing notes about Full grapheme based Unicode support, including Annex #29, meaning almost unparalleled excellent Unicode support. - e.g. Unicode, Perl 6, and You, This week: Unicode normalization, many RTs, This week: the big NFG switch on, and many fixes, ... --mj41 (talk) 10:06, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unicode support 

message: "First appeared	25 December 2015; 4 years ago"
This is disingenuous at best, actively misleading and distasteful at worst. Sure the language rename is a thing, but that's no reason to wipe away on Wikipedia all the work that happened for the previous fifteen years! This is especially problematic as all Perl 6 named articles now redirect here. I was using Rakudo in 2010, so this is completely bogus. Just the WP article history demonstrates the lie... who edited this and why was it allowed to remain? -- MattOates (Ulti) 07:31, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If anyone thinks its fine, the info boxes on programming langs are routinely used programatically to build timelines of language invention. -- MattOates (Ulti) 07:35, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  First appeared 

message: Various important keywords, such as 'role' and 'class', are important to Raku and should be distinguished in the text. This is not done consistently. I would edit the page for consistency, but would prefer to know first whether other editors have a preference. (I am just starting to contribute to Wikipedia, so I'm making mistakes) RichardHainsworth (talk) 10:04, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consistent reference to Role/Class etc.  

message: What does the first line of the below even mean?!?  It looks like Color is being either redefined (a la "x = x + 1", but of types), or is being defined recursively, a la the Curiously-recurring template pattern.  Either way, I think the snippet on the non-Talk page should be clarified.
subset Color of Any where Color | CMYK_Color;
sub get_tint(Color $color, Num $opacity) {
    ...
}
:: I have changed the example so as to remove the compilation error. Please take a look. It would also be nice to reference a source for this behavior, but I am not aware of any besides the official docs. — Rightfold (talk) 13:25, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification request 

message: As far as I can see, the article does nowhere explain the meaning of the name "Raku". I don't know Japanese, but according to Jonathan Worthington "Raku" means “comfort” or “ease” in Japanese:
Perhaps this could be added to the article? – Tea2min (talk) 08:27, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I now see that there's some more info on the names "Rakudo" and "Raku" at Rakudo#Name. – Tea2min (talk) 08:32, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does "Raku" mean? 

message: I corrected quicksort example. It had  not conserved size of the collection. Multiple same values (2,3,3,3,5,6)had been   reduced to (2,3,5,6)
I replaced "before" and "after" by "=<". (only in either one grep statement) .. I think this is  at the cost of type universtality
Is  there in perl something like before-or-equal ?? 193.179.3.153 (talk) 21:32, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  correction of quicksort example