Talk:Indonesia/Archive 2

message: Hi, I see no mention of the people of Indonesia speaking Arabic.  Since most Muslims do speak Arabic, and Indonesia has hundreds of millions of Muslims, this strikes me as noteworthy.  ...but I'm no Indonesia expert.  Can someone else add this to the article or correct me? Thanks. Gronky 17:22, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, first of all, the Arabic that is spoken/recited in the Quran and the living everyday Arabic are quite different - if I recall correctly, my Palestinian friend said the difference is between the English of King James and modern American English. Indonesian Muslims may overwhelmingly know the former, but not the latter. I am sure there are Indonesians who speak modern Arabic (due to the fact that so many end up doing migrant work in richer Arab states, such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, etc.), but not to the point where it becomes their first language when they come back to Indonesia. --Daniel 18:12, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to read between the lines a bit for the answer to my question, but you seem to concur that the ability to speak or read Arabic (in any of it's forms) is not widespread in Indonesia.  I'll add this information to the article (and I'll try to also mention your information about some Indonesians learning Arabic for, or due to, working in richer arab states).  I'll wait a little while before adding this, just in case someone else wants to clarify or add anything (or in case someone with more Indonesia knowledge wants to add this themself). Gronky 20:00, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Many Indonesian Muslims did take Qur'an reading lessons (called "Pengajian" in Indonesian) when they are younger, but I don't know the percentage, and to what level of proficiency.  However, I can confirm that very few Indonesians speak Arabic, Quran-ic or modern.  Many Arabic expressions have found its way into spoken Indonesian, and everybody knows what "Assala mualaikum" and "Insya Allah" mean.  But this is neither sufficient or indicative to saying that most people can hold a conversation in Arabic.  So I would estimate that at best, some Indonesians can *read* the Quran realiably.  Unfortunately I cannot give any reasonable estimate of the percentages.  Indeed, this is an important fact that is often overlooked.  I guess one can compare this to the proficiency of old Latin in Europe in the old days.  Sure, the priests and ruling and intellectual elites have some command of it, and it is considered to be "good education", but most people have little to no command of latin, despite perhaps having been forced to learn it as a child ;-).  Perhaps if somebody can provide actual numbers this should be mentioned in Islam in Indonesia.  Disclaimer:  I grew up in Indonesia, but I am not Muslim and I have not lived there for a long, long time, hence the above is at best my personal, and perhaps slightly biased, estimate.  Julius.kusuma 21:17, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

text: "Most Muslims speak Arabic" only in the Middle East, which is a long way from Indonesia.  Just as Hebrew and Greek - original Christian Biblical languages - aren't spoken by the vast majority of Christians, it shouldn't be surprising that many, many Muslims, especially Muslims who aren't Arabs, don't speak Arabic. It's a fair suggestion, but I don't think it's noteworthy that Arabic is not much spoken in Indonesia. CDC (talk) 20:50, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Most Indonesian Muslim are taught to read Qur'an, so IMHO most of them could only read arabic script(as I am).Aditthegrat 09:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Depend on how you define arabic speaking. Although most of us (Indonesian) cannot speak arabic, our language, Bahasa Indonesia was developed from Melayu or Malay and the latter was heavily influenced by Arabic. Hence, we can understand some arabic words although we cannot understand the sentence. Kunderemp 03:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  can someone confirm/add that arabic is not spoken? 

message: Is there a source for the population figure? Singkong2005 03:25, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The source is from this article in Wikipedia, according to July 2005 estimate figure by CIA World Factbook. *drew 04:21, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Agreed. But lot of Indonesian have at least three children. It still common in nowadays. The population in East Timor was very small compare to Indonesia. The Dec2004 Tsunami, althought it have great effect to Aceh, the population number affected by the Tsunami was very small compare to Indonesia. And most of the population was in Java Island. Kunderemp 03:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source for population figure? 

message: Can anyone provide authoritative information on Indonesian civilian losses in WW2 1941-45?--Berndd11222 23:37, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Indonesia was not part of war of WW2. It was an invasion by Japan and the Dutch surrendered fastly. There were civillian loses from Indonesian, but it wasn't WW2. Instead, it was forced labour (Romusha) such as what happened in Gua Jepang, West Sumatra. There were sparse war in Japanese Era but they're not part of WW2. Instead, they were war against Japanese to freed Indonesian (and no relation with Dutch or any European war). Even if that what you think, we didn't have a good record of population at the time, unlike Europe. Kunderemp 03:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indonesian Losses in WW2 

message: Why is Corby not mentioned anywhere in this article?  Highly POV to omit her reference.
: Who is Corby?  Julius.kusuma 13:46, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Given the flaws in our own judicial and legal systems, and our own appalling human rights record, I think it inappropriate for Australians to be pontificating on the legal systems of our neighbours. Despite appearances, Indonesia has made tremendous progress recently, something the Australian media have omitted (POV anyone?)
Corby would be as relevant on this page as illegal/detained Indonesian fishermen would be on the Australian page. I'm sure there is a wikipage for 'our Schapelle' already.Theinnerexits 10:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corby 

message: "in July 1942, Sukarno arrived in Jakarta. Sukarno and his colleagues collaborated with the Japanese occupiers. In 1945, with the war drawing to a close, Sukarno was made aware of an opportunity to declare independence. In response to lobbying, Japan agreed to allow Sukarno to establish a committee to plan for independence. Sukarno and Mohammad Hatta declared independence on 17 August."
These sentences is misleading. People will think, the Japan gave freedom to Indonesia, which they didn't. That was the Allies thinking which made Hatta and Sjahrir wrote Maklumat no. X to formed political parties to prove Indonesia was not formed by Japan, instead it declared by itself and ready to proceed as democratic country.
It was correct, Japan allow Sukarno, Hatta, and friends (Indonesia was not belong to Sukarno only!!!) to establish a committee to plan for Indonesia Independence. However, some of Indonesian felt discomfort and urged Sukarno to renamed the commitee (from BPUPKI to PPKI). And when Japan lose the war, they didn't immediately free Indonesia. Instead, they were waiting for the coming of Allies (British, Dutch) to give Indonesia back to Netherland. Sjahrir and the youngster (remember Rengasdengklok kidnapping?) forced Sukarno and Hatta declared the Independence immediately which eventually happened in August 17. Kunderemp 04:05, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have changed them to "However, Sukarno and Mohammad Hatta declared independence unilaterally on 17 August soon after Japanese lose the war." Kunderemp 04:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indonesia Freedom was not a gift from Japan 

message: Most of western encyclopedia currently regard that Indonesia has 2 special territories and 1 special capital region. What abot Papua? In fact, Papua is formally just called province, but it has special status than other provinces. So I change the sentence into: 
Currently, Indonesia has 33 provinces (of those, 3 are have special status and 1 special capital region).
BTW, Aceh hasn't been called daerah istimewa anymore. wic2020talk  06:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Provinces of Indonesia 

message: This is an English-language article, thus the official language of Indonesia should be referred to by its English name, ie "Indonesian".  I have removed the references to "Bahasa Indonesia" being the national language (although i have noted in the article that this is indeed the language's name in Indonesian).  THe Engish-language wikipedia articles on Germany does not refer to the national language as "Deutsch" rather it uses he English, "German". Same goes for articles on France, Denmark, Spain, etc.  (the word "bahasa" actually means language - add the Indonesian name of a country/region after it and you have that language's name.  Ie, Bahasa Jerman is German, Bahasa Inggris is English, Bahasa Indonesia is Indonesian, Bahasa Bali is Balinese, Bahasa Jepang is Japanese, and so on)  --Merbabu 08:48, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Indonesian" not "Bahasa Indonesia" 

message: "Democracy was restored following the revolution of 1998."
Is "restored" the most accurate word to use? Was there any free nationwide election in Indonesia prior to 1998? If not, would "restored" still be the standard term?
Michael 06:40, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so. There were free nationwide elections in Indonesia prior to 1998. We were free to choose which party we like (unless you're Government official) however there were only three party was allowed to be in election. After 1998, every party can join election. (note, in 1955, we also have free nationwide election).Kunderemp 02:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Restoration" of Democracy

message: Not on Indonesia but related, History of Southeast Asia is currently a nominee for Wikipedia:Article Improvement Drive. Please support the nominee by voting for it! __earth (Talk) 03:13, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia:Article Improvement Drive 

message: Does anyone else find the uses of the word "nation" at times repetitive in the following paragraph: "Indonesia, officially the Republic of Indonesia (Indonesian: Republik Indonesia), is a nation of islands consisting of more than 18,000 islands located in the South East Asian Archipelago. It is the world's largest archipelagic nation. It is bordered by the nations of Papua New Guinea, East Timor, Singapore, Australia and Malaysia. Indonesia (from Greek: indus = India nesos = islands) is home to more than 200 million people, and thus is the most populous Muslim-majority nation in the world and the fourth most populous overall." The word nation is used in four consecutive sentences. Also, the "a nation of islands consisting of more than 18,000 islands" part doesn't really roll off of the tounge well, in particular. I suppose it is written that way because of the wikilink to the "Island nation" article, but it should probably be changed to simply "a nation of islands." Anyone agree? Blinutne 15:05, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening paragraph 

message: While Indonesia has a lot of events in the last decade, Should the latest info of the country only talking around 2004 tsunami (17 years ago) event, or should it be renewed? NouVa (talk) 20:18, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC on contemporary events addition on Post-World War II section 

message: * Per above, events should be considered and added based on their due weight within WP:Summary style. CMD (talk) 01:39, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  WP:NOTABLE (and the subsection WP:SIGCOV) have nothing to do with a question like this. To quote, notability "is a test used by editors to decide whether a given topic warrants its own article" and "notability guidelines do not apply to contents of articles". You are looking for WP:DUE. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 08:46, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Can we do something like this (as in Spain)?
: Official language: Indonesian
I have added the info about the new regulation in Yogya in the main text anayway, inclusion in the infobox is optional considering due weight (nothing should be only in the infobox). IMO, it is sufficiently significant for inclusion there, but only in a note, since it only affects 1.4% of the population and 0.2% of the Indonesian territory. Thoughts? –Austronesier (talk) 06:24, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree sufficient for the short amount of text it takes in the article body. For the infobox, I'd actually propose removing the unspecific 700 languages mention (these are not really "Regional languages"), and add Javanese (and others if applicable) there instead, as Philippines does. This would balance it not being an official language of Indonesia, but still show it being an official language within Indonesia. CMD (talk) 08:00, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The template doc has: . "Associated" applies to virtually all bahasa daerah, and many of them have local recognition of some kind. Maybe we can add a customized "Regional official languages" field? I am not aware whether any other province has gone as far as the DIY in the explicit designation of the regional language as resmi. –Austronesier (talk) 08:57, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Depends what you consider "region" to mean I suppose, in my mind it implies a reasonably large area. For criteria for a field, I don't think we'd need to go as far as Yogyakarta went, other forms of local recognition could work. CMD (talk) 09:34, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Javanese in the infobox 

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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion 

message: Robertparkciler (talk) 05:45, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2021 

message: At the end of the first paragraph of the page, this quote is stated, “ Java, the world's most populous island, is home over half of the country's population.”  Instead of “home over half, it should be “home TO over half.”  The to must be added, it’s a clear grammatical error. ZMest54 (talk) 02:16, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, CMD (talk) 02:28, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2021 

message: I'd appreciate it if you state your reasons of your reverts of my multiple edits recently. Those edits clearly have summaries in them, and I cited some WP policies too, which you reverted all of it without any summary or reason at all. Please discuss here. Thank you. AdaCiccone (talk) 03:26, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay sorry, I meant to revert some things but your edits got caught. You can proceed to save your edits. Rantemario (talk) 02:21, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Alright cool. Thanks for clarifying. AdaCiccone (talk) 13:27, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: Please Kreolisasi (talk) 01:33, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. CMD (talk) 02:04, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2021 

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message: I think that the period of the Old Order, the New Order, and the Reformation should be added so that readers can understand how Indonesia's post-independence period was like other countries, not just independence and recognition. Baqotun0023 (talk) 01:55, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This is already included in the later history subsection and in the Government and Politics section. CMD (talk) 01:55, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added the history of the old order, new order, and reform 

message: A lot of pictures in this article reflect the Indonesia of years ago. I think we should renew/replace some photo's to give this article a more fresh wind of what the state of Indonesia is now. For example, the picture of the Bandung Institute of Technology is old and I think photo's from may 1998 in the subject of human rights should be replaced with a more recent issue. SwoerMell (talk) 18:07, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Read this, and knock yourself sideways --Merbabu (talk) 01:36, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renew photo's 

message: Add “Bali” to the list of islands among Java and Sulawesi listed in the first paragraph of the article, due to its highly relevant popularity as a well-established international tourist destination and cultural center. There is also a common misconception that Bali is an independent nation in it’s own right, and this edit would help to correct that. 71.232.40.255 (talk) 18:58, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: The largest islands are listed, Bali doesn't come close.
 CMD (talk) 20:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2022 

message: Given that there has been the usual surge in users trying to update content, I would like to bring up a Reuters report which states quite categorically that the capital is still Jakarta. I quote: "but no timeframe has yet been set for finalization of the project, and Jakarta will remain the capital until a presidential decree is issued to formalize the change.
If anyone can provide relevant sources that states the capital has actually shifted, please do list them. As far as I can tell, the bill has only approved the relocation of the capital, but not its actual move, yet. Seloloving (talk) 05:44, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  New capital 

message: change religiion census to the newest 2022 Ministry of Religious Affairs official census data from 2018 data (3 year late) https://data.kemenag.go.id/statistik/agama/umat/agama Jauzaidan (talk) 00:38, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Adding answered=yes to template to await requester input. casualdejekyll 13:48, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 February 2022 

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message: The following coordinate fixes are needed for
—114.5.223.237 (talk) 04:52, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You haven't said what you think is wrong with the coordinates in the article, and they appear to be correct. If you still think that there is an error, you'll need to supply a clear explanation of what it is. Deor (talk) 14:17, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coordinate error 

message: Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion	
wrong wording for religious demographics	
Added the history of the old order, new order, and reform 78.138.31.216 (talk) 07:06, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion	 wrong wording for religious demographics	 Added the history of the old order, new order, and reform 

message: Indonesia's GDP(PPP) 2022 estimate should be US$3,995 billion instead of US$3,995 trillion.
Indonesia's GDP(nominal) 2022 estimate should be US$1,289 billion instead of US$1,289 trillion 113.255.106.145 (talk) 02:04, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Changed commas to periods. Juxlos (talk) 04:38, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2022 

message: Hi can i please edit wiki 
Thanks
Anonamiss 139.130.234.194 (talk) 06:23, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Cannolis (talk) 07:30, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2022 

message: In the ETHYMOLOGY section, second sentence: "The name dates BACK to the 19th century..." ApprentiDiderot (talk) 04:19, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: thought it was a typo for a second until after I did it, but "...dates to..." is still correct grammar so this is probably just a stylistic choice from what I've read 💜  melecie  talk - 08:45, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2022 

message: Please change
to
 Everywiki (talk) 01:01, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. - FlightTime (open channel) 01:02, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 22 September 2022 

message: I feel the history section is long overdue for a revamp. It should be divided into pre-historic, early civilization, formation of large empires(not a good title but most closely means majaphait era), Islamic era, colonial era, modern era. there simply is not enough information on the page as well  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josepherino (talk • contribs) 00:47, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: For all of the information you mention, see History of Indonesia and further subpages. There are no such information on the main article because WP:LENGTH needs to be taken into account. AdaCiccone (talk) 05:25, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  revisions of article 

message: Indonesian groups decry ‘destruction of democracy’ as new criminal code curbs sex, free speech - South China Morning Post
Noticed a lot of articles reporting on the banning of extramarital sex, but not the provisions about making it illegal to criticize the Indonesian government. XTheBedrockX (talk) 09:38, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  This looks really worrisome… 

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message: Indonesia 1945 is Sumatra,  Java and Madura. acknowledged by Netherlands until today. And we never changed. ignore another island. Refers to australia; new Caledonia,  Fiji,  Kiribati, vanuatu. Patrick Chaptlin (talk) 17:30, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  area 

message: Indonesia will move the capital city to Nusantara in 2024, but why remove the city even though there is an official article that definitely says the capital city is moving like (here) and (here) Whatsup236 (talk) 15:02, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Until the capital moves, it remains at Jakarta. CMD (talk) 15:19, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Nusantara city is removed 

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message: They added national emblem in place of coat of arms text below the logo so recently.2404:8000:1027:85F6:C86F:F845:A935:F8EE (talk) 18:55, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbol name change 

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message: Change "a Island country" in the first sentence to "an island country." KnittingRhys (talk) 18:18, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Tollens (talk) 18:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2023 

message: This has been officially recognized by the NL government and needs to be reflected in the Wiki page.
https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/06/nl-recognises-august-1945-as-indonesian-independence-date/
https://nltimes.nl/2023/06/15/dutch-pm-angers-maluku-people-acknowledging-1945-indonesia-independence-date -Fixy (talk) 10:30, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: While it's true that Dutch Prime Minister did says  in parliamentary debate. His spokeperson also stated . Furthermore in was mentioned in the source that . So, basically nothing really changes and no need to change the article. Ckfasdf (talk) 14:01, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

text: If we really need to change, then I suggest to replace parameter established_event2 = Recognition  to established_event2 = Transfer of Sovereignty, since transfer of sovereignty is an event in the past and independent to recognition of Indonesia Independece by Nehterlands. Ckfasdf (talk) 02:05, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect most people read "Recognition" as an event, rather than reading it as the continuous present perfect meaning that seems to be implied in this discussion. CMD (talk) 02:09, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Netherlands has recognized Indonesia's independence to be 17 August 1945 

message: In 17 August 2024, Indonesia has moved to Nusantara. And then why if i adding this this city instead it was returned even though referring to here that Indonesia had officially transferred The city on its Independence Day. So isn't it already De Jure if Nusantara is a candidate for the capital city? Whatsup236 (talk) 11:33, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not 2024 yet. CMD (talk) 12:08, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

text: Until the actual move has been completed and done, which is still a year from now, Indonesia's capital city remains in Jakarta. AdaCiccone (talk) 03:48, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't the legal basis fixed, right, if 2024 has moved officially? and source here Whatsup236 (talk) 11:00, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Article 39 on that document reads as follows: "The position, function and role of the State Capital will remain in the Special Capital Region of Jakarta Province until the date the transfer of the National Capital City from the Special Capital Region Province of Jakarta to the Capital City of the Archipelago is determined by a Presidential Decree." AdaCiccone (talk) 14:43, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition of new Capital City  

message: Like, the Majapahit Empire, Islamization of the archipelago and the time when Indonesia became a federal country Touch some grass (talk) 07:06, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: We have a dedicated article, History of Indonesia, linked from this page which touches upon those topics. CMD (talk) 07:35, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why not adding more history of Indonesia 

message: Indonesia has Independent at August 17, 1945, which independent from Japanese occupation of the Dutch East Indies. 
So whay not also adding that despite Japan colonized Indonesia? 2001:448A:2094:4331:B00D:FEDE:1CFB:683F (talk) 02:27, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: they did, "The Japanese invasion and occupation during World War II ended Dutch rule and encouraged the independence movement. Two days after the surrender of Japan in August 1945, Sukarno and Mohammad Hatta issued the Proclamation of Indonesian Independence.", this text or something similar has probably been here before your statement. 110.138.80.99 (talk) 15:05, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why not adding independent from Japan