Talk:Antisemitism/Archive 9

message: I suggest we rename Alleged modern manifestations of anti-Semitism into Modern anti-Semitism. Alternative: rename most of WP articles to start with word "alleged". Except Harry Potter, of course. --Humus sapiens|Talk 01:58, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. --Humus sapiens|Talk 01:21, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Alleged

message: Moved this to talk: See also: List of anti-Semites. Since AS-ism is not a formal club, the list will be highly controversial. I don't think it belongs to a serious encyclopedia and deserves a VfD. --Humus sapiens|Talk 18:06, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: List of antisemites

message: "Denying the right of Mancunians for a state is indicative of considering Mancunians inferior."
"Denying the right of Gypsies for a state is indicative of considering Gypsies inferior."
"Denying the right of Welshmen for a state is indicative of considering Welshmen inferior."
"Denying the right of Frisians for a state is indicative of considering Frisians inferior."
"Denying the right of Basques for a state is indicative of considering Basques inferior."
Hmmm... doesn't work for me no matter what ethnicity you substitute. - Mustafaa 07:16, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. In other places you argue that all Palestinians ever wanted is their own state (that would make 23 for Arabs). Not anymore? ←Humus sapiens←Talk 08:35, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nope.  All I want for the Palestinians is their own land back.  The state is a second-best solution, although sadly they will probably be forced to settle for it. - Mustafaa 19:29, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  All I want for Sudeten Germans is their own land back. All I want for Jewish refugees from Arab countries is their own land back. All I want for American Indians is their own land back. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 18:06, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sounds great, in all three cases.  Or would you rather endorse the theft? - Mustafaa 19:31, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  No I won't. To make this discussion relevant to the subject of the article, may I suggest you work on those before advocating etnic cleansing of the Land of Israel from Jews. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 19:37, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  The ethnic cleansing in Palestine is about 80% complete - and it wasn't an ethnic cleansing of Jews... - Mustafaa 20:22, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I see, then you have a good reason to edit this article. You also forgot the wells poisoning and using DU bullets. Last time I checked, Arabs in Israel prosper and enjoy all freedoms of democracy, unlike Jews in Muslim countries (about a million in 1948, almost non-existent today). Blaming those mean Jews for Arab rejection of every one of numerous partition plans, or for winning existential wars waged against Israel or for not absorbing hostile population is misleading. Curiously, at the same time Jews are being accused in having victimhood mentality, or being overly sensitive. This is my last msg in this thread. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 21:30, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ah, I see - so those irrational Palestinians are to blame for not being allowed to return to Israel because, for some unfathomable reason, they were hostile to the movement that had exiled them and stolen their land!  Nice one. - Mustafaa 01:16, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue is far more complex, Mustafaa.  Just who "exiled" the Palestinians, and whether or not it was "their" land or "stolen" are hotly debated, and central to the issue.  As for the question of "return", the vast majority of the Palestinians still live in "Palestine", and the vast majority who wish to "return" to the State of Israel have never lived there.  As I said, the issue is far more complex than the shouted slogans would have one believe. Not that the debate is overwhelmingly relevant to an article on anti-Semitism, except perhaps as a putative cause for it.Jayjg 18:30, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: "Denying the right of Jews for a state is indicative of considering Jews inferior."

message: A number of political and social leaders in the European Union have become concerned with the new wave of anti-Semitism that is sweeping over Europe. As such, a report on this phenomenon was written at the Center for Research on Anti-Semitism, at the Technische Universität Berlin, Germany. This report was written on behalf of the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC.) The February 2003 version of this report is available online
*European Union Report on resurgence in anti-Semitism
A number of researchers on anti-Semitism have written book-length treatments about this subject, including The New Anti-Semitism: The Current Crisis and What We Must Do About It, Phyllis Chesler (Jossey-Bass, 2003); The Return of Anti-Semitism by Gabriel Schoenfeld, Encounter Books, 2003; and Never Again? The Threat of the New Anti-Semitism]] by Abraham Foxman, HarperSanFrancisco, 2003.
United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan stated on June 21, 2004, that "It is hard to believe that 60 years after the tragedy of the Holocaust, anti-Semitism is once again rearing its head. But it is clear that we are witnessing an alarming resurgence of these phenomena in new forms and manifestations. This time the world must not, cannot, be silent." Anan then asked U.N. member states to adopt a resolution to fight anti-Semitism, and stated that the UN's Commission on Human Rights must study and expose anti-Semitism in the same way that it fights bias against Muslims. Anan stated "Are not Jews entitled to the same degree of concern and protection?"
Tikkun magazine ran a series of article on the resurgence of anti-Semitism across the world.
* The New Anti-Semitism, by Miriam Greenspan. Tikkun Magazine 
The Anti-Defamation League stated that: "The events of September 11, the American campaign against terrorism and the Palestinian intifada against Israel have created a dangerous atmosphere in the Middle East and Europe, one that 'gives anti-Semitism and hate and incitement a strength and power of seduction that it has never before had in history.'"
*The New Anti-Semitism in Europe and The Middle East: Threat is "Potent and Very Real" ADL Leader Says in Major Address
:Calling anything that doesn't suit your POV censorship is a tired old canard. For anyone who is interested, please look at the edits made and the context for these changes, instead of listening to these hysterical yarns - I don't enjoy wasting my time on defending myself against outright lies, but this is for the benefit of observers. 1) The report was not removed, but balanced by reports which are contrary or provide balance to the article - there is, after all, no statistical data in the report, and the only statistical study made contradicts its conclusions - I suppose that makes the study "anti-Semitic" in RK's view; 2) the books RK mentions are all polemical, not factual, and I changed the passage to read that both those kinds of books and works opposing their views were frequently published. The titles removed are not "sources" because they are not factual works, just rants - look up the titles in a bookstore or on Amazon. 3) I removed the Annan statement because it is not based on any actual data - Annan and other politicians mention a new issue everyday, and one can't take them at their word because there is usually a motivation for such speeches, such as calming or escalating conflict for political ends; besides, there are already several quotes which say exactly the same thing, so why do we need more than one example of the same view? 3) When RK said he was reverting my article yesterday, I thought he simply replaced it with the old one, so I replaced it with mine again; I did not check to see whether he added new links, and deleting those was a mistake - he is welcome to have them on the page, and they are now. -- Simonides 22:04, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources cesnored by Simonides