Talk:Hans Langsdorff

message: I am not sure whether I should put it in the article, but in "La vraie vie d'Eva Peron" by Silvain Reiner (a documentry biography) I found the note about the La Plata battle and Hans Langsdorff. The author states that the suicide of Captain Langsdoff was faked. The only witnesses of putting Langsdorff's body into coffin were asailor from Admiral Graf Spee - Fisher and German attache. There was no doctor to confirm the death. In 1941 the coffin was transported to Germany and put in Gorlow (East Prussia), but when at the and of the war a group of allies' officers went there (they wanted to honour him, because he was respected by the enemies) it turned out that the coffin was empty.
It is also said that Juan Peron had captain Langsdorff his guest in Calle Posadas.
The book is not fiction, although everything looks much like conspiracy theory. Juan Peron might have invented the story or might have been misled by a fraud. On the other hand if Langsdorff wanted to commit suicide - he could have commited it immediately, not waiting two days. 
Maybe other users can comment on it. 
I also remember a film (British production on the Battle at the Rio de la Plata). The film was fiction, based on a true story. It said nothing about the suicide (real or faked). Maybe someone is able to say more about the film (it must be older than 1981, because that was the date I saw it on TV). Jasra 20:50, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The film is The Battle of the River Plate (film), which I have just watched, it ends shortly after the scuttling, with no mention of what happens to Langsdorf afterwards. DuncanHill 18:52, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think that any photos of his dead body were taken but it was widely reported at the time that he had committed suicide wrapped in the battle ensign from the Graf Spee. It was the old German Navy flag, not the Nazi flag. See main article. He waited a few days before committing suicide because he wanted to see all his men to safety first -- SteveCrook 14:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Did Langsdorff commit suicide?

message: Is Langsdorff correctly categorised under "Category:Nazis who committed suicide"? Is there any evidence he was a Nazi party member? 
As I recall, there is much circumstantial evidence that he was not a Nazi (by conviction, at any rate). For example, his omission to give the Nazi salute at the funeral of his men - see http://www.maritimequest.com/daily_event_archive/2005/dec/17_admiral_graf_spee.htm
And also the fact that he committed suicide in the presence of the "kaiserlichen Reichskriegsflagge" (Imperial German flag, without the swastika).
Shouldn't he be removed from the "Category:Nazis who committed suicide" category? Todowd 19:01, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Nazi" who committed suicide?

message: There's a sub-section headed "Death or Suicide". Is there any doubt that it was suicide? If there is then it should be mentioned. If there isn't then the heading should be changed -- SteveCrook 14:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Death or Suicide

message: The thing I missed the most in this article is the picture of Hans Langsdorff saluting at the funeral of his shipmates who had died at the battle of the river plate. Very telling is that everyone uses the 'Nazi salute', even the priests, except for Langsdorff who uses the 'normal' military salute. Another indicator that he wasn't a die-hard Nazi. As mentioned in the 'nazi who committed suicide piece' above. Sorry to have mentioned it again
212.136.56.20 11:01, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture of Langsdorff saluting

message: Article text says 
This shell destroyed steam boilers needed to operate the ship’s fuel cleaning system
[Battle of River Plate] article repeats this, adding that this went un-revealed for 60 years
40 years ago, the standard version of why the Graf Spee was scuttled was that a lucky hit by a British shell had destroyed the Graf Spee's desalination equipment, leaving it with only ready stocks of drinking water, so that any further ocean-going was out of the question.  
The fresh revelation looks much like the accepted wisdom of 40 years ago but with the nature of the lucky hit changed. Looking around at other websites, there seems general agreement that the desalination plant and kitchens were wrecked; relatively few mention oil-purification. I would have thought loss of desalination was the real show-stopper. Any thoughts? Rjccumbria (talk) 18:05, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: What did the 'lucky hit' destroy ?

message: I have amended slightly the 2nd para of this section. In the original draft it reads as though it was Germany which gave Langsdorff the various options as to what action he could take upon sailing out of Montevideo. In actual fact, Germany only told him that the ship was not to fall into enemy hands. The actual options were entirely Langsdorff's own considerations.
207.47.210.54 (talk) 03:16, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Battle of the River Plate section -- amendment

message: Please add the following uploaded by National Geographic, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1BU_GyiDNw
:(btw, it contains considerable relevant info not in this article) ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 21:37, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: As other editor(s) remarked, a coincidental event is trivia and should not be included in the biography. It is an editorial type remark, I do not see RS for it, and WP seeks to provide a general summary of life events, not an extensive retelling. Omit this material and leave present version as is.  – S. Rich (talk) 02:27, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit observing coincidental events

message: The disagreements over the circumstances of Kapitän Langsdorff's death, in particular the date on which it occurred and the flag involved, are refected by inconsistencies among three relevant Wikipedia articles. 
In this article Langsdorff died on 20 December 1939. The "Suicide" section's third paragraph description of how he ". . . lay on Admiral Graf Spee's battle ensign and shot himself," presumably refers to the then-current Reichskriegsflagge. However, the source material cited does not provide a date and states only "[A]fter leading the crew into safe internment, Langsdorff shot himmself." Also, is the citation given for this material complete? Thomas Adam is the editor of the entire three volume work but the author of the entry "Admiral Graf Spee" is Holger M. Meding. 
According to Battle of the River Plate, ". . . Captain Langsdorff committed suicide by gunshot on 19 December," but this statement, as well as the entire section of the article in which it appears, "Trap of Montevideo," already needs additional citations for verification. 
German cruiser Admiral Graf Spee, is much better documented and considered Good. The fourth paragraph of section "Scuttling" begins "[O]n 20 December, in his room in a Buenos Aires hotel, Langsdorff shot himself, dressed in full dress uniform and lying on the ship's battle ensign," presumably, again, the Reichskriegsflagge. The source cited, Bidlingmaier, appears both credible and interesting but also out of print. Also, the phraseology might be improved slightly; perhaps "while dressed .. . ."?
My primary interest is vexillological. Like others here, I too have read that Langsdorff's body was found with some version of the 1871-1918 Kaiserliche Kriegsflagge. I first learned this when I was quite young from a YA-type history of World War II that described his wrapping himself in an old Imperial German ensign, "an insult to Hitler," before shooting himself. It made a strong impression but the story appears to have been forgotten. I have not found any reliable accounts. Many recent articles, e.g., those regarding the 2004 salvage efforts, mention Kapitän Langsdorff only in passing and flags not at all. A BBC article even locates his suicide in a "Buenos Aires naval camp".
I would like to consult Bidlingmaier's book, which some online vendors carry as used but websites offering electronic versions set off my security applications and the nearest public copy I can find is over 500 miles away. I have been unable to research this incident well enough and I should be grateful for any suggestions or links to more reliable versions of the story.
Vex Delay (talk) 20:36, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: When, and with which ensign?

message: No, per MOS:MILTERMS ("John Smith was a brigadier general."); no, per MOS:JOBTITLES; no, per oxforddictionaries.com, which shows "captain" to be a common noun. Wikipedia generally capitalizes proper names and the first word of a sentence, and nothing else. The rank "Kapitän zur See" is capitalized because it is German, and all nouns are capitalized in the German language. The word "captain" is capitalized when it is treated as part of a person's name ("pistol used by Captain Hans Langsdorff"), but not otherwise. Chris the speller yack 20:14, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing how rarely some people get around to editing Wikipedia, I will make the corrections myself. Chris the speller yack 22:24, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: But Hans Langsdorff was German -- SteveCrook (talk) 12:04, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  No, ranks are not capitalised 

message: Is Langsdorff's 1939 death in dispute? Does anyone really think that he is still alive in 2018, aged 124?
Assuming not... why is this article badged as a biography of a living person?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.19.154.18 (talk) 08:32, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone applied the wrong tag a week or so ago. Corrected now.  Thanks for letting us know. --David Biddulph (talk) 08:45, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biography of living person?!? 

message: The family section of this article uses intentionally-misleading information to imply that Hans Langsdorff was an "Ardent Nazi" when nearly all historical sources agree that he was not.  
One such section can be found in the "Family" section. The article cited claims that Langsdorff stated the Fuhrer was a "prophet" and conveniently omits the original author's next two sentences which make it clear the Langsdorff was clearly NOT an ardent Nazi. Quote: "All Langsdorff's actions as captain of the Graf Spee show that he was a decent, honourable and compassionate man. He was almost certainly not a member of the Nazi Party but, nevertheless, it is very unlikely that a loyal officer of the Kriegsmarine... would run down his head of state ... to a foreigner and, in particular, a citizen of a state with which his country was at war."
Bad enough that the editor of this page omitted that portion, but then this same editor also claims in the "career" section that there is "ample evidence" that he was, in fact, an ardent supporter of Hitler despite utilizing a source that demonstrably argues AGAINST that being the case.  This is simple cherry-picking - and not proper research methodology.
I have also been made aware that the same person who edited these sections then cited them in the Town of Ajax (Langsdorff Drive) debate held on November 16th, making the cherry-picking of the source material even more offensive as it was for political gain.
There is not ample evidence that Langsdorff was an "ardent supporter" of Hitler. In fact, all available evidence points to the contrary.
Sadly when I attempted to correct this sections and remove the politically-charged misinformation, the change was quickly reverted back to the version which contradicts itself.
I cite the following sources:
"[Langsdorff] was almost certainly not a member of Nazi Party..." - from the editor's own source.  Miller, D. (2013). Command Decisions: Langsdorff And The Battle Of The River Plate. Barnsley, South Yorkshire, England: Pen & Sword Maritime.
""It's a shame," an Israeli specialist in Nazi affairs said. "Langsdorff and most of his crew were military men but not Nazis." - New York Times, 1970. https://www.nytimes.com/1970/02/10/archives/legend-of-the-graf-spee-serves-as-a-focus-for-rightist-activity-in.html
Otrex (talk) 10:53, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family and Claims of being an "Ardent Nazi"