Talk:Small Worlds (Torchwood)

message: * Jack said something about something being "part Mara" - or at least that's what I heard. Was that a fleating Kinda/Snakedance reference?
I don't think so I think it is more a reference to Mara (folklore) the origin of the word nightmare as Jack stated himself CartmanUK26 12:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking that the above article I think you're right CartmanUK26. However I wouldn't be surprised if the Doctor Who Mara was based on the Scandinavian Mara too. --GracieLizzie 12:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well,  "Kinda/Snakedance" writer Christopher Bailey was a Buddhist, quite eager to see his faith onscreen in some way.  Thus, the DW Mara actually came more from the Buddhist Mara—a, for lack of a better word, demon who tested Gotama on the road to Buddhahood by getting into his head at a moment of great weakness.  In some East Asian languages, mara means temptation, and has nothing whatever to do with nightmares.  Really, the DW Mara has little in common with the Scandinavian Mara, on which this Torchwood episode is clearly based.    I think this article should have a section discussing all this Mara business, because it's noteworthy that a) the reference comes from other established folklore and b) it's not the DW Mara, which some readers might believe, due to Torchwood's association with Doctor Who.  CzechOut 19:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Article changed to include this information.CzechOut 20:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: While I agree that the reference is most probably to Mara (folklore) rather than Mara (Doctor Who), I don't think that we should state it quite so definitively.  It's possible that PJ Hammond may have been making a connection between the Scandinavian Mara and the Doctor Who Mara (which was, as CzechOut says, mainly based on the Buddhist Mara (demon)).  It's worth remembering that the Mara in Kinda came to Tegan via a dream.  I'm concerned that unless we have a quote from Hammond or one of the Torchwood producers saying that the line was not a reference to Doctor Who, it's original research to claim baldly that it "is not a reference to the chief antagonist of "Snakedance" and "Kinda"".  I think I'll try to soften the language slightly — if there is a source that I'm not aware of, revert away. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded. It's certainly not . . . folklorically precise to draw a connection between the Mara from Kinda and the Mara that Jack mentions, but that doesn't mean Hammond wasn't doing so. Dreams and inhumanness and, most importantly, an especially timeless and perennially forgotten evil—plus the fact that Kinda was an especially memorable bit of 80s Doctor Who, particularly likely to be name-checked. Sux to have vague language in the article, but I can't think of an alternative either. Iralith 16:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mara

message: I'll admit I became fond of her so I'm biased, but as she is only as notable as say... Carys or Bernie... I am not going to add her to he minor characters list. But I was wondering should I make a redirect? Also if so should it redirect here or to Jack Harkness where I've written about her and as we had with Rhys redirecting to Gwen Cooper before we made the minor characters article? --GracieLizzie 00:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think there's any reason to make a redirect, is it likely anyone will search for her? I didn't even know her last name until I read it! But if you were to make a redirect, it should probably point towards the episode. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 00:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Emotional tug for Jack I suppose. But we should really avoid chatting here (yes I know I flouted that a bit on the serial talk page, but I was vexed). --GracieLizzie 11:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Estelle 

message: Perhaps we can avoid trivia in this article? there's only one piece at present.. (WP:AVTRIV) Matthew Fenton (talk • contribs) 08:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia 

message: Should it be Fairy or Faerie? The Torchwood website is rather inconsistant, using Fairy, Fairie and Faerie interchangably. Fairy is the most common, but Faerie tends to be considered most correct, especially for Celtic areas (such as Wales). Laïka 12:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that the beings are fairies (singular "fairy"), while their realm is Faerie or Faërie.  —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The ae spelling is used in Estelle's references to them - like how wiccans spell magic "magick". The normal way of spelling it is, is "fairy" still.~ZytheTalk to me! 14:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling 

message: Is the director one of Pat's many relatives? PMA 19:51, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope.  I can't remember exactly where I read it (probably Doctor Who Magazine), but Alice is no relation to Pat. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, in DWM Davies said he asked her and she said no. Angmering 10:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Troughton? 

message: she was in The Idiot's Lantern too
PMA 09:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously another example of fairy time-travelling. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 13:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lara Phillipart 

message: Well here are the two bullies as suggested:
PMA 20:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, but this one is right out - two girls in a gale doesn't really illustrate much about the episode. At least the Cottingley fairies one had the advantage of relating to the plot. Does anyone have any other suggestions? What about a longer shot of the fairies, or when Estelle is photographing them in the woods? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 06:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was GraceLizzy's idea about the bullies - i'm leaning towards a shot of fairy-Jasmine from the end PMA 06:33, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. That might be giving away the final twist too early. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 06:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it was one of my lesser suggestions, and I also I sort of meant looking down on them from a more distant postion and seeing all the school yard. Khaos' suggestion of a longer shot of the fairies is good one. Maybe them in the trees, or the beginning of their attack on the party, where they jump over/through the fence, just before they kill Roy? --GracieLizzie 13:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The new one is blurry and still doesn't really focus in on the central plot element, i.e. the fairies. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 09:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The "fairy POV" is blurry for whatever reason in the episode and GraceLiz said the new shot is what she meant - "I also I sort of meant looking down on them [the bullies] from a more distant postion and seeing all the school yard". PMA 09:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, she also said it was one of the lesser suggestions. That being said, any comments about the two other alternatives I put up? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 16:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  alternate photo 

message: Was it Simple Gifts or Lord of the Dance (hymn) that was playing during the school attack?  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music 

message: Can anybody confirm whether the similarities in plot with episodes of S&S were intentional homages or coincidences? Branfish 12:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Sapphire & Steel'' References

message: I don't think Lynn and Roy were married, because during the party one of the neighbors asks him, "so when are you going to name the day, Roy?" and Roy responds, "never, can't afford to keep her." I've changed the article accordingly. Also, I'm concerned that "backyard barbecue party" may be an Americanism, but it was the best way I could think of to describe it. Please change it if you know a more appropriate term. Ariadne55 (talk) 15:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lynn & Roy, and the party