Talk:Automotive industry in China

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message: The article has a list of the number of cars of each brand sold in 2018, based on one source.
The numbers published by another source are entirely different.
e.g. Volkswagen AG defended its title as the best-selling carmaker in China  
The German automotive group, together with its two Chinese joint ventures, sold 4.18 million vehicles in the Chinese mainland and Hong Kong in 2017, reflecting 5.1 percent growth year-on-year.
Of them, 3.18 million were Volkswagen-branded; Audi deliveries totaled 597,900, maintaining its lead in Chinese premium market; Skoda sold 32,500 cars, and Porsche delivered 71,500 cars, 
General Motors Co, which ranked No 2 in China sales last year, was another carmaker that delivered more than 4 million cars in the world's largest market. Sales of its Cadillac, Buick and Baojun cars combined totaled 4.04 million cars, making China GM's largest retail market for the sixth consecutive year.
I don't know which source is more accurate but perhaps a regular editor on this article should take a look at http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201801/17/WS5a5f3d27a310e4ebf433e5c1.html Peter K Burian (talk) 14:47, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most popular brands??? 

message: I worked on this article for a couple of days and have done all I can. I could use some help in fixing the numerous new citations, and adding Wiki Links as necessary.
This is such an important topic these days, with all the news articles about Tariffs by the USA and China. Those have a huge effect; I did not get into much of that since it's too early to know what the long-term effect will be on the automotive sector. Sales have dropped a lot so far in 2018 in China, but that may just be a short-term blip. And Wikipedia is not a newspaper. Still, I am sure that many people are reading this wiki page.
    China auto sales post biggest drop in 7 years as growth engine stalls .. (Reuters) - China’s car sales fell the most in nearly seven years in September, stoking concerns the world’s biggest auto market could contract for the first time in decades this year amid cooling economic growth and a biting trade war. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-autos-sales/china-auto-sales-post-biggest-drop-in-7-years-as-growth-engine-stalls-idUSKCN1MM0KV
Also, I just returned from a tour of China and am more aware of the automotive situation there, than ever before. That motivated me to get this article updated.
Granted, there are sections I have not touched, because I just don't have any more time to spend on this article. Still the most significant sections are up-to-date. Peter K Burian (talk) 23:21, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major update to this article has been completed 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion 

message: This section has grown unwieldy. It should really be a summary of the issue, not an exhaustive list of every claim. 
Suggest that if necessary, this section be split out into its own page. Otherwise, it should be simplified. — No coffee, please. (talk) 05:02, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Exhaustive' Copying Claims Controversies 

message: , care to start a discussion here? Article discussion and building WP:CONSENSUS are a fundamental part of Wikipedia and you don't seem to want to talk on your own talk page. - Amigao (talk) 05:05, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I already made my point again and again. The accusations or controversy about intellectual property theft should go to specific manufacturers, not the Chinese auto industry as a whole. Not all Chinese manufacturers are involved in such disputes, and this should not be attributed to the Chinese auto industry as a whole. This is biased and lacks fairness. Infinty 0 (talk) 05:11, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources are about the industry as a whole. We follow what WP:RSes state here. - Amigao (talk) 05:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The citation for the whole industry is about technology transfer, not IP theft Infinty 0 (talk) 05:27, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Re-worded accordingly. Forced technology transfer and IP theft are distinct and should be treated in separate sub-headings. - Amigao (talk) 05:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Let's please stick to WP:GREL and academic WP:BESTSOURCES for this issue given its apparent contentious nature. - Amigao (talk) 16:07, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice you have made the "Allegations of forced technology transfer" as a separate section, are you implying that the development of China's automobile industry during this period is all due to so-called forced technology transfer? Or the importance and scale of it can be on par with the other section like "Entering the WTO" or "Rapid growth" or "Intensified competition"?  Infinty 0 (talk) 16:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually best as a sub-sub-header since said allegations substantially took place following the PRC's WTO membership. - Amigao (talk) 16:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The visual difference of sub-header and sub-sub-header is barely noticeable, plus it is isolated and has no parallel content. It should be integrated with the previous part. Infinty 0 (talk) 16:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: As an FYI, the WP:WSJ remains a WP:GREL source. Discussion about the quality of the source should be directed to WP:RSN. - Amigao (talk) 14:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't doubt the reliability of the Wall Street Journal, what are you referring to? Infinty 0 (talk) 14:51, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Hence, no reason to remove it. - Amigao (talk) 15:01, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: If the citation is behind a paywall, it will not be accessed and verified by most reader.  It will significantly affect the fairness principle Infinty 0 (talk) 15:22, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you cite an actual WP:POLICY for that? It is not part of WP:RS. In any case, the article is still accessible via archive. - Amigao (talk) 15:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I've noticed you have made "Criticism of technology transfer policies" a very large portion in the "Growth and expansion (2000 to 2020)" part, much larger than other sections. Can you explain your intention? Are you implying that the Chinese automobile industry has benefited greatly from this so-called unfair forced technology transfer? By describing this content at such length, are you implying that China's joint venture policy does not comply with WTO norms?  Or do you have some other citation to prove this? Infinty 0 (talk) 16:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: We follow what the WP:RSes state here. That's core policy. Also, the article is still unbalanced but it is becoming more balanced than it was. - Amigao (talk) 16:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

text: I would also recommend checking out WP:WIKIVOICE, another core policy. - Amigao (talk) 17:01, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding your edit "Criticism grew following the government's eleventh five-year plan, which adopted a more focused approach to technology transfer in advanced technology" Can you point out where can I find relevant descriptions of technology transfer in China's automotive industry? and where can we conclude that technology transfer has increased attention after the five-year plan?  Infinty 0 (talk) 17:20, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Also worth checking out WP:LIBRARY for access to excellent content. - Amigao (talk) 17:20, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: what's wrong with Motley Fool as per Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources ? Infinty 0 (talk) 01:33, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Prior discussion of the Motley Fool on WP:RSN found its reliability to be questionable. There are far better sources out there we can use. - Amigao (talk) 01:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: then you just remove all my edit without adding better sources？ Do you think this action is actually constructive? Infinty 0 (talk) 01:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're quoting a living person (see: WP:BLPQUOTE), you have to have a WP:RS for it. Otherwise, it cannot be there. However, for stats, I typically will drop a "citations needed" in-line tag to offer up an opportunity to find a better source. - Amigao (talk) 02:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

text: If you're going to quote living persons, please do so accurately and always with WP:INTEXT attribution. - Amigao (talk) 04:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Engagement 

message: There was a lot of content that's been deleted. These information should be retained and they are very helpful for people who are not familiar with auto industry of China. I sincerely hope everyone to maintain a friendly atmosphere and make more contributions to editing the article. Wikipedia is a collaborative platform, and we should all strive to make it a valuable resource for everyone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 43.153.25.155 (talk • contribs) 
:Removing content that shouldn't have been here in the first place is 'contributive', and keeping out unencyclopedic lists is one of the ways that Wikipedia is maintained as a 'valuable resource for everyone'. - MrOllie (talk) 15:56, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't you if you have noticed other car industry article, there are lot of lists like this. e.g. "Automotive industry", "Automotive industry in the United States","Automotive industry in India","Automotive industry in Japan","Automotive industry in Malaysia"etc. These kind of lists are pretty common. 43.153.25.155 (talk) 16:29, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Any content, tables of stats or otherwise, has been backed up by WP:RS and not contain WP:OR or be WP:SYNTH. - Amigao (talk) 18:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: We agree contents should be backed up reference, but these information are mere overview of Chinese auto industry and introduction to separate articles which is well supported by the references within them. Delete all of them is not positive contribution to this article. If it needs reference then all the editors should work together to add on it. 43.153.25.155 (talk) 00:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit warring in an attempt to force the inclusion of content that does not meet Wikipedia's policy requirements (which have already been linked for you) is not a positive contribution. MrOllie (talk) 00:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Call for contributive and friendly editing