Talk:Ignition system

message: The current article only really talks about piston engines, but internal combustion engines as a group include rocket and jet engines. I'm thinking the article should be enlarged a bit to cover these too. The article already mentions aircraft engines a bit. Comments?WolfKeeper 23:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article scope?

message: This type of arrangement was quickly superseded by spark ignition, attributed to Karl Benz, a system which is generally used to this day, albeit with sparks generated by more advanced circuitry.
The above seems in conflict with the invention by Charles Kettering. The mechanical-breaker and coil ignition system is known to me as "the Kettering" rather than "the Benz" system. Can anyone settle this issue by providing dates? 84.210.139.189 20:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who invented spark ignition? 

message: Looking at an engineering book from 1935, I found this odd passage:
:"Chemical ignition hy injecting an active liquid capable of ignition on contact with one of the fuel components into the chamber, is doubtlessly the most convenient method of non-recurrent and recurrent ignition. Such liquids ere known (e.g,  the solution of phosphorus in carbon dlsulfide) and they have been recommended  many times for internal-combustion  engines."
Any idea what he is talking about? DonPMitchell (talk) 08:57, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chemical Ignition 

message: Anyone have any knowledge or information on the Leburg electronic ignition system? There was a little section in the article that was removed by a unregistered user mentioning it was an advertisement(On May 3, 2009). 
The section removed
More recently a retrofit Leburg electronic ignition system was made available for VW aero engines. This system does away with the distributor and other mechanical parts entirely. The variable ignition timing is based on the instantaneous RPM, which is measured with an electronic sensor.
The Leburg Electronic Ignition System is suitable for most aircraft engines to provide improved and consistent dual ignition to replace magnetos. For details see www.leburg.com ( Sept 17th 2009 )Henry Mickleburgh (talk) 16:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leburg electronic ignition system 

message: I found an Ignition system diagram on the Wikimedi Commons in French and arranged for it to translated to English.
::*http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Car_ignition_system.svg
:: deleted (moved to new section: Ballast resistor not shown in diagrams.Dcebr (talk) 03:28, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you 129.215.149.98 and PiRK
I will be integrating this graphic into the article soon, if no one beats me to it!--220.101.28.25 (talk) 15:27, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circuit Diagram Available 

message: We had an edit conflict there! (I think I nodded off over my keyboard, local time is very late!)
I have gone back to the 'original' diagram but full size because:
:* It fits the text better, which still needs re-writing
::*The text here is specifically about the mechanically ('points') switched system
:* I had it translated specifically to use here
:* It (or a version of it) may fit better under 'Electronic Ignition' --220.101.28.25 (talk) 20:27, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circuit Diagram 'Revert' 

message: In case it's needed again, may put this back in.
* Switch should probaly link to contact breaker/ points not switch
* Thyristor seems to be for an 'analog' electronic ignition system? 
:* Hall effect or optical 'points'??
* Needs a 'legend' of what component labels mean ie. Lp = Coil Primary Winding
--220.101.28.25 (talk) 21:16, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Code' for thyristor switched ignition 

message: Ford is developing a system that uses LASERS in place of spark plugs to ignite the fuel. 
I know Wiki is not a cystallball, but this is apparently a serious proposal. Researching reliable source/s required.
Refer to http://greenprophet.com/2009/07/14/10523/fords-laser-spark-plugs/ URL from Spark plug article
NB Spark plug article is longer than Ignition System article!
--220.101.28.25 (talk) 23:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future Developments/ Developing Technologies 

message: For an ignition coil, one end of windings of both the primary and secondary are connected together. That's a quote from the Modern Ignition Systems section.  I'm not seeing the connection point.  I think this is shakey.  Is there a clearer way to describe this?Longinus876 (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand your point. They're connected. They're connected at the same point as the contacts and condenser. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Connected? 

message: As i read the articles "ingnition system" and "ignition coil" in the german and english Wikipedia, i noticed that most of the circuit diagrams (of classical ignition) do not match the "real thing". In fact I think only the one about "wasted spark" ist correct.
(1) The classic ingnition coil has only three connectors (numbered "15" - 12 V switched by car key from battery/generator, "1" via contact breaker to ground and finally "4" high voltage via spark plug to ground). And that implies that there ist no connection to GND, when the contact breaker is open. Therfore the only closed loop for the ingnition current (the current which "feeds the spark") is through the battery (its internal impedance is very small). Unfortunately no circuit diagram shows that. This circumstance is important, because alternators (the rectifier in it) will be destroyed by the high voltage which drives this (quite small) current of the spark, when the battery is disconnected in case the motor is running.
(2) Most of the classical ignition systems have two resistors of some importance: One with several kOhm in the high voltage loop, integrated either in the cable or in the sparkplug. This resistor has to effects: it makes the duration of the spark a little bit longer (but the spark a little "weaker") and it reduces interferences of the ignition system with radio frequencies. The other (second) resistor in series with the primary coil of the ignition coil, usually between +12 V an pin 15 of the coil (it has only about 0,5 to 1 Ohm). This resistor reduces the current when the ignition is on and the breaker is eventually closed (motor isn't runnig) and it improves the engine start, because the resistor is bypassed (by the starter switch) when the starter is operating and the voltage of the system drops due to high start current.
I did some rework of one of the diagrams which looks like that:
http://www.brix.de/elektrik/_images/Batterie-Spulenzuendung_Schaltplan.jpg
Stefan Brix, sx@brix.de (sorry, currently no user-account in the english Wikipedia ...)
--77.187.23.139 (talk) 11:29, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circuit Diagrams: Reality Check 

message: There are good diagrams here, yet unfortunately I didn't see a ballast resistor in any of them.  The electronic ignition schematic (with electronics symbols) can probably omit one because there is a timing capacitor to control the maximum dwell time to limit the current through the coil.Dcebr (talk) 03:23, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ballast resistor not shown in diagrams 

message: whoever is deleting "purpose" (as if that isn't pertinent) and editing main article.  the purpose is not to be so generalistic as to say nothing, where the same number of words describes exactly.  your welcome.
please watch youtube about adjusting points before flatulating about diagrams
someone is promoting the idea a condenser is a capacitor - it IS NOT (the name differs for a reason).
someone is flooding the article with lengthy descriptions that are really just trivia of part cost / efficiency related.  AND are also incorrect and not revealing of electron direction and force anyway.
while the Kettering or other historical references are interesting.  listing every every CONTRIVED electronic circuit that does the job:
needs to be a different topic - one for the auto hobby channel
and already one can see diagrams on google for particular cars - there is no need to list what each current car manufacturer is doing currently.  just reference it or even show a few diag out of (chilton's)
my tone here is someone is deleting ANY addition without considering purpose or any rules of articles, simply to command the topic: while accusing me of being non-encyclopedic and even IP attacking me
this deletion harassment and IP attacks by "admins" or other deranged users needs to stop or be by reader vote - be done with psychopathic admins
72.219.202.186 (talk) 15:21, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The problems are first, your writing is nearly incoherent. Basic English language writing ability is required to make significant edits. Others could copyedit for you to fix the problem, but your writing is so bad that nobody actually knows what you're trying to say. The essay Wikipedia:Competence is required explains this further.<P>Second, you are adding your own opinions and observations without clearly citing verifiable sources. This violates the Wikipedia policy no original research.<P>It is rude to call your contributions "crap", and Wikipedia doesn't allow attacking other editors. But honestly, if you can't be more clear and can't name sources coherently, then you're not helping the article. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:13, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: hello ?

message: This article is wrong.    The early engines had no spark plugs.   The points were mounted inside the cylinder and a single coil was used as a inductor to generate the high voltage.   This was the system used by the Wight brothers on their first aircraft.    I have seen a replica  of that  engine at Oshkosh.   Please get it right.     
see;
http://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/wright-brothers/online/fly/1903/engine.cfm
Arydberg (talk) 18:49, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you think that one engine, relatively late (1903), built unusually lightweight for aircraft use, has such relevance as redefining the invention for other and earlier engines?  Lenoir was forty years before this, Benz' first car twenty years earlier. Both had a spark plug. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:31, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

text: I think the editor was probably trying to say simplest of current systems, not obsolete ones, but they weren't very clear about that. Hot tube is even more primitive than wipe, but they're kind of a different category. Can you fix it, if you've got the sources handy on this subject? --Dennis Bratland (talk) 19:27, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: here are two additions I suggest.    The entire article needs to flow much better starting with primitive spark systems leading to CD systems and transistorized  systems.    
HOW A SPARK IS PRODUCED BY A BATTERY
In a battery operation ignition system the coil is a high voltage transformer.  As such it has 2 coils wound around a iron core.  A primary winding with a low number of turns of heavy wire and a secondary which is a high number of turns of very fine wire.    One end of each coil is connected to ground.    
The second end of the secondary coil is connected to the spark plug.    The second end of the primary coil goes to  one of the points.    The other point is connected  to the battery.    Before the plug is to fire the points are closed and a current builds up in the primary coil.    This causes a magnet field to build up.    At the moment the plug is to fire the points are separated.    This causes the magnetic field to collapse and this collapse causes a high voltage in the secondary.   It is this voltage that causes the spark.  A capacitor is connected across the points to extend their life.     This type of ignition was in use for many years.   
HOW A SPARK IS PRODUCED IN A MAGNETO
A magneto engine also has a spark coil as above with two windings on a iron core  and a set of points.   In this example the coil is assumed to be stationary and the magnet is assumed to be moving but the reverse is also possible.  One point is grounded and thus connected to one end of the primary winding.   The other point is connected to the free end of the primary winding.      Before the spark is needed the points close then the magnet rotates by the iron core of the spark coil building up a current in the primary winding.   This current is accompanied by a magnetic field.    When the spark is to occur the points are opened and  the magnetic field collapses which produces a high voltage spark.         
As for sources they are  a bad word to me I was banned from a wikipedia topic for suggesting sources.Arydberg (talk) 13:41, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

text: Note that HT systems (with a two winding transformer) were a later development from LT systems, which had a single inductor or magneto winding. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  first spark ignition engines 

message: It has been proposed to merge Ignition switch into this article (Ignition system).
*Oppose. Ignition system deals with igniting the fuel-air mixture in the cylinder. The ignition switch (aka starter switch) has other duties such as powering all electrical accessories and temporarily engaging the solenoid/starter. Glrx (talk) 19:52, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: This article needs a lot of work. I started fixing some stuff in one section, but then realized the material was incorrectly covered in the previous section. The Model T magneto is an alternator in today's terminology. The Model T didn't need to use rectifiers to make DC (which could recharge a storage battery) because the voltage peaks were synchronized for powering the induction coils. Glrx (talk) 18:33, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Model T