Talk:Anti-Polish sentiment/Archive 2

message: It is indeed a good principle that a new word should not be invented when an old one will do.  But what alternatives are there to "anti-Polonism" or "Polonophobia"?  And why should Poles be left out of a parade that already includes "Anglophobia," "Anglophilia," "Francophobia," "Francophilia," "Germanophobia," "Germanophilia," "Russophobia," "Russophilia," "Sinophobia," "Sinophilia," etc.?  And if there can be an "anti-Semitism" (actually a misnomer:  Arabs are Semites too!), then why not an "anti-Polonism"?  Why should Poles be more modest--or less demanding of their legitimate martyrological rights?  Ultimately the answer is not to ban words, but to work diligently so that in the future none of these words will any longer be necessary.  Logologist 06:52, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: PLEASE KEEP THE DISCUSSION ON PUBLIC TALK PAGES IN ENGLISH. I seem to lean more towards Emax POV here, but I do agree that this article would benefit from a clear sectioning into:
* Anti-Polonism pre 1918: things like germanization, russification, Polish foreign relations (impact of Dymitriads on Polish-Russian attitude, etc.)
* AP 1919-1939: Polish-Ukrainian War, Treaty of Riga and P-Ukrainian relations, first part of the Western Betrayal, P-Lithuanian conflict over Wilno, P-Czech conflict over Silesia, Nazi propaganda against Slavs
* IIWW: Nazi and Soviet attrocities, begining of Western Allies denial,
* AP after IIWW - attitude towards Polish emmigrants to US and Western Europe, merging of Anti-Semitism and Nazis with Poland image, current 'Polish concentration camps' phrase, etc. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 13:20, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Neologisms

message: I recommend an online 1996 article, "Promoting Goodwill between Jewish and Polish People:  the Obstacle of the Kielce Pogrom of July 4, 1946," by the respected Polish-American scholar Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski, author of the book, Jews in Poland:  the Rise of Jews as a Nation from Congressus Judaicus in Poland to the Knesset in Israel.  The whole article is worth reading.  A very germane remark is that:
"On the flip side of the coin bearing the image of anti-Semitism is the image of anti-Polonism.  The coin of anti-Semitism cannot be melted down and destroyed without also melting down and destroying anti-Polonism."
Pogonowski observes that tendentious "students of the Holocaust [have] certainly [been taught] how anti-Semitism produced six million Jewish deaths in the Holocaust [but] apparently they [have] not also learn[ed] how anti-Polonism produced three million Polish gentile deaths during the occupation--the Polish aspect of the Holocaust."
Few things could better illustrate than this article the intimate and insidious connection between hostile propaganda and outright genocide--whether these be directed against Jews, Poles, Armenians, Gypsies, American Indians or any other people.  (And yet it is only one chosen people that is deemed worthy of its own exclusive Holocaust Museum.)  Logologist 08:42, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A Polish-American view of the question

message: The problem with this article is its concentration on enumeration of wrongdoings. While there should be place for it I think that the reader should be also informed about reasons behind it. Of course we know of Mein Kampf that coined Lebensraum term but are there any signifaicant theories how it sprung into Hitler's mind? OK, Drang nach Osten, germanization, Bismarck's derision... but why? Similarly, I have not been able to find a consistent explanation of Polish jokes besides hints that it was a recent minority related tensions and after peak in 70s it nearly faded now. Is it if we have open laughter at You forgot Poland? 
IIRC, Davies mentioned something about European peoples, that it is common to look down on eastern neighbours. Perhaps it could be a lead to broader issues. Forseti 13:13, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. This definetly needs to be adressed. We need why? alongside what? and who?. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 13:31, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Reasons

message: The changes made to lines 4 and 43 on February 23, 2005, are evidently malicious:  in line 4, not only deleting an idea but completely reversing the meaning of the sentence; and in line 43, deleting information on a phenomenon admittedly from three decades ago, but certainly a "more recent" one than the prewar and wartime ones described earlier — and an important and pernicious historic episode.  I suggest these (vandalistic?) changes be reversed.  Logologist 04:19, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evidently malicious changes 

message: I think the section on French politics in 21st century does not really belong here. French politicians are worldwide known for following one faux pas with another, but this can hardly be considered antipolonism IHMO. It's rather the way that the French see politics in general. Any thoughts ? --Lysy (talk) 22:11, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's kind of like when Chirac recently said English food is terrible, almost as bad as Finnish.  Was that anti-Anglism? Anti-Finnism? To be a proper addition to the article, the information needs to have been brought by a reputable source as an example of anti-Polonism.  Unfortunately, the authors of this article keep bringing things they think are anti-Polonism, without any citations indicating they actually are anti-Polonism.  That, of course, is original research. Jayjg (talk) 22:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My thoughts, exactly. In fact I find this para rather pathetic and would prefer not to see it there. But I'd wait a bit for a possible defence here. (not that I admire Chirac) --Lysy (talk) 22:56, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antipolonisms in France in 21st century ?