Talk:Rain (entertainer)

message: I added a npov warning on the main page.
:Thats been removed.Kairos 01:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality Despute 

message: People have cleaned this up, which is surprising, but appreciated.  However, two things.  First, as his stage name is Rain, and as he is popularly known by that term, he should be referenced as "Rain" in the article.  Right now, he's mentioned by his full name in the article.  Second, that news section either has to be integrated or deleted, cuz it's just too large and trivial at this point.  I'll start the naming... SKS2K6 19:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heya, I went through the other day and re-organised the page, deleted some useless stuff, and added in references.  I think there should be a better way to organise the different spellings of his name, though.  Oncamera 03:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: I could swear he had one when I first saw this page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metatron's Cube  (talk • contribs) 20:56, March 11, 2007 (UTC)
:It was deleted because it either wasn't a free image or it didn't have a source/image tag included.  So that's why it's gone. If someone could find a free image of him, then they should upload it.  oncamera(t) 09:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Where'd his picture go?

message: Lots of Lots of Lots of vandalisms related to Korean articles. Hey, it's not our fault that people died in Virginia Tech... If the gunman waited just a few months more, he would have gotten the American citizenship. Why is it Korea's fault? I don't even understand it. That gunman came to America when he was eight years old. Obviously, he does not necessarily have the same mind as most Koreans. (no offense to any race, the earth is one). Polleo 23:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My name rhymes with Pollio for a good reason (I don't have it though). Polleo 23:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalisms. 

message: Although I do agree that the vote is slanted, and I do feel that Rain's fanbase just voted for him repeatedly until he got first, I feel that such a statement should not be included in this Wikipedia article.  First, there is no proof.  The only link is for the blog comments, which are simply comments, not facts.  Second, this is non-neutral.  Since there is no proof, it is merely one's opinion.  The fact that Rain got first and was not included in the article is factual.  The "fact" that the vote was slanted is actually not fact.  This is why I keep removing the statement from the article.  Plus, there are so many comments on that page that it takes forever to look at them, and it's basically equivalent to linking to a forum, which Wikipedia does not really allow.  SKS2K6 01:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Time Magazine votes

message: Can anyone help with citing the page? Needs lots of references, but most are either in Korean or Chinese, and they're all in gossip news. Are these citations allowed? And the picture, too. Please update picture..maybe one of his world tour concerts or when he's wearing a suit.
SHUT UP! IM BORED ALREADY!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.63.229.66 (talk) 18:39, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations

message: Is there any particular reason Time named him one of the most influential people?  It's not really made clear in the article, and the only real place it's mentioned is at the top in that little paragraph.  I'm not saying he has no reason to be given such a title, but the article doesn't really show how he is "influential" other than having a whole crapload of musical hits and whatnot.  69.124.142.33 02:11, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influential People 

message: I'm pretty sure he was not born in Seoul. I think Seosan, Choongnam is correct. However, like this mess of an article, I can't provide a sitation. Did he try to write this article himself?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krazykimchi (talk • contribs) 03:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth Place 

message: So why's this guy so influential? Is it ballot stuffing, or is some foreign pop-star really more influential then everyone else in the world?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2k6168 (talk • contribs) 03:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In short, the Korean Wave includes several artists who are considered leaders of the movement. Rain is considered one of them because of his goal in becoming world-renown. The ballot box stuffing isn't the reason for his notability. I don't think he's as popular in the west as for example Hiromi Go back in the 1970s or Seiko Matsuda during the 1980s. But the fans are ten-times worse than Apple fanboys; it is probably linked to the country being the top or 2nd from the top of Internet-savvy people in this world. These fans make Barack Obama's fan look like tourist agents for Antarctica. South Korean artists are IMHO the most motivated group of people you will ever see on planet Earth. Where people like Rain get this motivation - I'd sure like to know. People in other Asian countries aren't as animate about the world recognizing them as the Koreans. Groink (talk) 03:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

text: It's both, really. My theory is that the influence, so to speak, is a direct product of ballot stuffing. Rain has a fairly large fanbase to begin with among Koreans, other Asians and what have you. When they heard that Time Magazine was holding an online poll, Rain fans just rushed to the site and stuffed the ballots. Since pretty much every American and his/her mom has heard of Time Magazine, it caught the attention of Stephen Colbert & co., who blew up the whole thing into unimaginable proportions. Once his name got circulated, it reached the ears of movie producers, and whoever else decides to hire Rain for something. Again, this isn't a hard, factual thing, but merely my theory based on what went on. Pandacomics (talk) 04:07, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Let's be honest here. It is radical fanatics like talk who can write a 300-page dissertation on "Why I love Rain," but never answer the issue directly. One of my professors used to call this B.O.S., or "bunch of sh*t," where someone would write pages of material without actually understanding the question. Re-read several times what Isilvalie wrote above. In short, it sounds cold. What it sounds like to the rest of us outsiders is someone who's trying to BUY (yes, BUY) his way into people loving him. The anonymous poster earlier mentioned Bono and John Lennon. I'll even throw in the names of Michael Jackson, Bob Geldof, and Elton John. These are people who spent DECADES supporting various causes. Isivalie's explanation looks like an Ivy League political science student who's trying to fill out a resume, hoping that people will love him later on when he need to "cash in" on the love. Well, he may have captured Isivalie's heart, but let's understand something here... Like religion, the Koreans are trying to SELL their people, and make them out to be equals with people who REALLY earned the status of being IMPORTANT in this world. Most of us can see through all of this. Rain introduced himself to the world in 2002. In seven years, do you expect the world to allow Rain to stand on the same stage as Bob Dylan, Muhammad Ali, and Jim Henson? Rain must earn his way into this same group of people - not just because of the things he's done over seven years. He must spend DECADES of hard work in his causes before anyone will accept him as important. As of right now, the only thing us outsiders see of him is not him - but his radical fanbase. I don't think Isilvalie will ever grasp the logic behind what I've just said here. Groink (talk) 06:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Importance 

message: I have a lot to learn about editing here so plan to spend quite a bit of time in the style guides and sandbox first, but I want to reorganize the information on this page (the info jumps back and forth in chronological order in a confusing way), update old info (a few obsolete things and new info that pertains to topics already here), also there is a new album release scheduled for next month plus a number of performances, negotiations for a new Korean drama which may or may not come to fruition, a possible change in the Ninja Assassin release date - just things to track and add as soon as they can be confirmed by official announcements. I may get permission from Jtune to post some pictures that can be used for informational but non-commercial purposes.  Since I see the requirement that "You irrevocably agree to release your contributions under the terms of the GFDL*" I don't know if use of these images is permitted here (whether the images can have a more restrictive license than the text of the article). From what I read it seems as though one can choose from a menu of licenses and attach a particular one to a posted image but advice from someone who is a more experienced editor would be appreciated. I will discuss any major changes here before making them to the article in order to give anyone who has an interest in this article a chance to weigh in first. Thanks for all the previous work that has been done here.  Isilvalie (talk) 06:21, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganization 

message: The Seoul Times of this week-end has an article entitled "U.S. Court Orders S. Korean Pop Star to Pay $8 Million" about his canceled Hawaii concert.  I don't know if it's note-worthy enough to put into the article. Kdammers (talk) 01:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: For the legal section, yeah, definitely. As long as you have a link to the original and all. Pandacomics (talk) 01:52, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suit 

message: Why was this article moved to "Bi Rain" without any discussion? Disambiguous name spaces is NOT a problem on Wikipedia. The person going through the move requests should know better. What you just did is name the article "Rain Rain", since "bi" in Korean means "rain". Please move the article back to its previous name space. Groink (talk) 06:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You may want to look at Rain (entertainer) beside "Also known as: Bi Rain" EunSoo (talk) 07:19, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dude, it was YOU who changed it to "Bi Rain". Re-check your edits at this link. Groink (talk) 07:40, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

text: I noticed it my bad. I won't be afraid to point out my mistakes. Biane! I just checked in his forums it's Bi Rain, mostly Rain Bi though. So it is either or. I out in a request for it to be Rain (Bi), so that his stage name comes first. EunSoo (talk) 07:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who the heck is Bi Rain? 

message: I changed the Headers of the article (again) to match how they are done on better written and comparable articles such as Michael Jackson.  If there are disagreements with my edits, please discuss them here instead of reverting to the poorly organized headers.  For instance, it's in bad taste to name his Career section as "Biography" as the entire article is already a biography.  Thanks, oncamera(t) 00:09, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Comparable to other articles? There was nothing wrong with them before. The newer titles are short, and to the point, compared to the old titles. 200.63.165.19 (talk) 00:19, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

text: You also changed more than just headers Oncamera and removed alot of information. I opposed your edit so shouldn't you discuss it before adding in your version.200.63.165.19 (talk) 00:29, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't remove any information.  The stuff about the 2010 drama in Korea was moved to the 2010 section.  And I just put paragraph breaks into the header.  You didn't give a valid reason for reverting besides an opinion, so don't start a pointless edit war when the Header change I implemented improves the article.  It's easier for readers to find info about different years in Rain's career to use years in the titles.  Did you even look at the comparable article?  oncamera(t) 00:51, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not starting an edit war you are because you keep reverting when the original edit was before yours. The headers are simple and to the point as I have stated. Your headers are full of dates that are already in the paragraph. You have also removed a bunch of information from the introduction section of the page See Here. 200.63.165.19 (talk) 01:10, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ugh, you're not even getting it: the information was moved down into the body of the article because it's not important to have a sentence for a drama that hasn't even aired in the header.  So, since you're having so much fun reverting my improvements to the article, I don't need to waste my time here.  Good luck finding sources for the Awards section; are you handy with Korean news sites?  Cheers, oncamera(t) 01:17, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: So because I question your headers you are going to leave me to do the searching by myself. That's cruel. 200.63.165.19 (talk) 01:22, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright enough! Per Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, it was right for Oncamera to BE BOLD, and I applaud Oncamera for being bold and not discussing the change of headers on the talk page. Also, per BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, 200.63.165.19 has the right to revert your edit, but Oncamera you should not re-revert as it completely invalidates the purpose of being so bold — to start discussion. So, enough edit warring. Discuss the changes. Taric25 (talk) 01:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What's there really to discuss?  With the messy headers the way they are, this article will never get out of a C-class rating.  I tried to help, but if I have to explain the obvious with paragraphs of discussion, then it's meaningless to "help".  oncamera(t) 01:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oncamera, let’s focus on the article, not other editors. I’d also like to know the status of our sources for the awards. I’ve taken some of your comments below. 02:13, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

text: I've written articles up to GA-class, and I understand what the basics should be before going into a peer review, so by simply comparing this article to B or GA class articles the differences in the basic organizational structure will be clear.  So, it's best to do what one can to prepare a decent article before the PR per Wikipedia:Good article criteria.  oncamera(t) 02:25, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your answer, Oncamera. 200.63.165.19, do you have any objections at this point to moving toward the new headers so that we can get out of C-class? Taric25 (talk) 05:21, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headers 

message: Give examples of sources, articles or policy/guidelines that support the change. Taric25 (talk) 01:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've written articles up to GA-class, and I understand what the basics should be before going into a peer review, so by simply comparing this article to B or GA class articles the differences in the basic organizational structure will be clear.  So, it's best to do what one can to prepare a decent article before the PR per Wikipedia:Good article criteria.  oncamera(t) 02:25, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your answer, Oncamera. 200.63.165.19, do you have any objections at this point to moving toward the new headers so that we can get out of C-class? Taric25 (talk) 05:21, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reasons to support new headers 

message: Give examples of sources, articles or policy/guidelines that oppose the change. Taric25 (talk) 01:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reasons to oppose new headers 

message: Alright, guys what's the status on us getting sources for his awards? Does anyone read Korean, because Google Translate is pretty fuzzy for articles from Korea Times. Taric25 (talk) 01:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh I am in the process of searching. 200.63.165.19 (talk) 02:11, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much. Taric25 (talk) 02:15, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Status on obtaining sources for awards 

message: Is there any information on his religion? The only things I found were profiles that had a conspicuously blank spot next to religion and one website that said something along the lines of him being very dedicated to his mom, although I don’t see how being dedicated to your mom is religious, but everyone has their own beliefs. Taric25 (talk) 05:40, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: Can someone please find an exact date for when that "press conference" was held. Having the section simply state "today" is misleading. --75.3.94.253 (talk) 07:42, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Army Enlistment 

message: Not quite sure how the Korean for rain was removed from info-box and lead, but needs to be in both. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:23, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: (Korean 비 IPA ['piː])

message: I went ahead and deleted the sentence reading "He became a baptized Catholic in 2014" since it seems irrelevant to the rest of the section. If anyone disagrees, or can find a way to make it relevant, feel free to add it back in. Sydkei (talk) 17:15, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the info back in. Religion is a basic feature of virtually any celebrity's "Personal Life" section on Wikipedia. Lol natemup (talk) 15:24, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change to "Personal life"  

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Not moved   (t · c) buidhe 16:37, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Rain (entertainer) →  – given that no one says "the entertainer Rain" or "Rain the entertainer" and that his acting career seems to have now receded and new album coming out, can we just call him "Korean singer Rain" as sources do? In ictu oculi (talk) 14:45, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 22 February 2021 

message: Given these guidelines and the status of the RfC, I'm inclined to conclude that there was consensus option 3, meaning that the use of the term entertainer should be restricted to cases where a subject's notability across different areas of entertainment is roughly the same on the basis that many entertainers are known for a specific entertainment domain. That said, I don't think those cases are terribly obvious, and ought to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis through discussion. This consensus also has the consequence of affecting articles described in option 5, meaning that such articles probably should dabbed as something other than (entertainer). I, JethroBT drop me a line 02:37, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  As per above "use of the term entertainer should be restricted to cases where a subject's notability across different areas of entertainment is roughly the same on the basis that many entertainers are known for a specific entertainment domain." which means Rain (singer) In ictu oculi (talk) 17:11, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on the above move discussion, I don't see how it could be closed any other way. Even guidelines sometimes have exceptions, or alternately some editors may believe that Rain has been significant in multiple areas of entertainment. (t · c) buidhe 17:20, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Or they are editors that support (entertainer) as a dab. But anyway, I'm confused as to why you marked it non-admin closure but have Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to make difficult blocks on page? In ictu oculi (talk) 17:35, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

text: I would support simply stopping using "entertainer" as a disambiguation term completely. --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:22, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: RFC close 2013