Talk:Agartha

message: On 31 Mar 2005, this article was nominated for deletion.  The result was keep.  See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Agartha for a record of the discussion. —Korath (Talk) 05:35, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)
I started to copyedit this, but it needs major help from an expert in the field I think. Kevin 10:51, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vfd

message: Rama, India - beneath this surface city is a long lost subterranean city, it is said, also named Rama
There is no city in India by the name Rama. 
Agartha is  two cities. Agartha Alpha and Beta. Both located under the Gobi Desert in Mongolia. There are no entrances to Agartha from anywhere else on the planet but from the Gobi Desert itself. This post needs to be seriously edited. Some seriously shoddy material posted on Agartha here.
:Every site with google states that Rame is located "near Jaipur". However, I have not been able to find any ancient city or ruins called by that name. 
:There is however another Rama. In Banaras city (also known as Kashi), there is an entire twenty square kilometre area called Ramnagar: the city of Rama
:Patrick1982 10:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shoddy research on a very interesting subject. The topic needs to be updated. 

message: #Citing sources for all claims, and reordering their presentation in more appropriate fashion.
#Improving article grammar and flow.
#Contrasting the opposing claims and implications of the Agartha story to those of the current scientific paradigm.
--Chr.K. 16:48, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I propose moving (or copying) the "Cultural references" section to a disambiguation page, and adding a "For other uses..." link to it at the top of this article. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 05:16, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvements required

message: There's only a paragraph on it in the intro saying it's "not supported by modern science" and the rest of the article treats it like a legitimate theory. There needs to be more on opinions against this. — Pious7 21:41, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article in its current form can best be described as attempting to be pseudoscientific.  It needs a SERIOUS rewrite to re-frame the information as mythology.  I would do it, but I don't know anything about this subject except what I've read here (obviously I didn't gain anything particularly useful from crackpot hollow earth theories).  ThatDeadDude (talk) 16:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not NPOV 

message: I guess I was hoping for too much in coming to this article trying to rfind real documentation about this placename/myth, not a statement-as-facts recitation of modern-era popular hack mythology; and like other New Age-rewritten mythology the original content is pushed aside in favour of pomo fashions and von Daniken/Hancock like gee-whizism.  Iguazu Falls?  Gimme a break.  The Agartha I've heard about was not part of a Burroughsian "hollow earth" theory but was a hidden/underground city in Central Asia, in the Kunlens or Altai, and not generally confused/equated with Shambhala although similar in concept; Agartha is older "in the tradition" than Buddhism and Shambhala is explicity Buddhist.  I think the refs I know of were in Lewis Spence's Encyclopedia of the Occult or another older work, the Pellucidarian take is entirely "internet age" in origin, or in popularity anyway.  Where in Spence I'm not sure; I do remember he talks about Kaf, which is hidden undeer the Great Caucusus (the rim of mountains around the edge of the world, in a mehtaphysical/mtholological sense, including the earthly Caucusus and the Bactrian/Afghan/Hindu Kush ranges]].  Anyway just voicing disppointment that the myth is not more encylopedically accounted here, and instead as so often elsewhere on the net/in wiki, apocryphal speculations are quoted as if documentary fact.  Skookum1 (talk) 14:46, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New Age-y garble vs traditional myth

message: Underground cities or caves are fictions. What is the reality is astral travelling. A Shaman use any drugs for a trance situation and believe in this situation that he has travelled into an underground realm.   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism#Spirits
(...)
In the Peruvian Amazon Basin and north coastal regions of the country, the healer shamans are known as curanderos. In addition to Peruvian shaman’s (curanderos) use of rattles, and their ritualized ingestion of mescaline-bearing San Pedro cactuses (Trichocereus pachanoi) for the divinization and diagnosis of sorcery, north-coastal shamans are famous throughout the region for their intricately complex and symbolically dense healing altars called mesas (tables).
(...)
The yaskomo of the Waiwai is believed to be able to perform a soul flight. The soul flight can serve several functions:
*healing 
*flying to the sky to consult cosmological beings (the moon or the brother of the moon) to get *a name for a new-born baby 
*flying to the cave of peccaries' mountains to ask the father of peccaries for abundance of game 
*flying deep down in a river, to achieve the help of other beings.
Thus, a yaskomo is believed to be able to reach sky, earth, water, in short, every element.
(...)
--81.215.231.76 (talk) 17:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Flying to the cave - a soul flight

message: A search for agartha simply directs to the miles davis album, with no link to a disambiguation or a link to the theory for which the album was named.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cooldice23 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  re: Disambiguation page 

message: most of these legends, myths, stories, and psuedoscientific gurgles are completely unrelated.  the article about all of them should be called "acient subterranean cities" and not "agarttha."  for instance, if, as the article clearly implies, all of these legends describe the same city, then why is it simultaneously under a city in india, and under the gobi desert, and at the earth's core?  while it is true that it is "directly under" all of these places if it is in the core, that makes discussion of what surface feature of the earth it is under moot.  my point is that the things being used to connect these ideas are not connections at all, and that these various facets of ancient mythology should have separate and distinct (and sourced) articles.  maybe i'm asking too much of new-age bullshit, but whoever wants this to be in this encyclopedia should make it at least seem encyclopedic. - nzbensen  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.154.166.164 (talk) 06:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  many different articles 

message: Huh?  Given that the north pole is just a coordinate on a mass of ice floating on water, how could it has an entrance of an underground anything?  Or do you need to take a towel in a plastic bag if you get in that way?  :-)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.241.80 (talk) 12:17, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  North Pole? 

message: Examining this website it appears to be unclear as to any affiliations or official recognition, I have found none so far. The website is registered in an anonymous manner (no named individual on the registration database) though with a UK phone number and an anonymous PO box in Austria. It may be an elaborate con for people to pay for the "correspondence course". There is no mention of this site in LexisNexis in any published newspaper or magazine and no mention in the Google News archive. Consequently this cannot be considered in any way a reliable source and should not be used to substantiate statements in the article.—Ash (talk) 08:35, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using iamuniversity.org as a source 

message: I'm stubbing this down to only properly referenced statements.  Feel free to restore information with proper citations. Simonm223 (talk) 20:46, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stubbing 

message: After completing that I find what is left still depends on three websites which do not provide a WP:RS basis for notability of the myth.  PRODding. Simonm223 (talk) 21:05, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Added a couple of published sources including the piece in The Observer by Umberto Eco which directly refers to Agartha. I shall remove the PROD on this basis. I have also removed links that fail WP:RS including a link to a forum.—Ash (talk) 13:02, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good job Ash.  Thanks for the help. Simonm223 (talk) 13:59, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  PRODding 

message: when Christianity lives up to the commandments which were once drafted by Moses and Jesus," meaning "When the Anarchy which exists in our world is replaced by the Synarchy."
I'm not sure where this meaning comes from, but the greatest commandments by Moses and Jesus are personal commandments for how to live, rather than national or group commandments.
Moses: 
*Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
*Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
*Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
*And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
*Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
*Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
*Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
*But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
*For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
*Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
*Thou shalt not kill.
*Thou shalt not commit adultery.
*Thou shalt not steal.
*Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
*Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.
Jesus:
*A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
*"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
*All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
Therefore, I would say that he rather means once Christianity lives up to these standards mentioned above, as nowhere does the Bible say that Christians are to setup Christ's kingdom on earth. Christ himself will do that. We are to bring his kingdom to men's hearts, so to speak. Aliens to our own country, we become citizens of another, whose laws, customs, and precepts we follow. A kingdom which, as Napoleon said, is ruled by love, not force. Some countries say you cannot have dual citizenship with this kingdom, others do not mind. But when the time comes to choose, we cannot deny Christ. Arlen22 (talk) 23:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I propose the wording "...meaning when Christianity lives the commands of Christ..." Arlen22 (talk) 23:51, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section problem on quote about Christianity 

message: Arnt they ment to be there in the orig version?--HalloHelloHalloHello (talk) 11:29, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nazis and Dinosaurs? 

message: WP:PROFRINGE edits—I started a WP:FTN topic about those. tgeorgescu (talk)  11:15, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fringe 

message: Agartha's been referenced a few times in other media. Should we reference this in the article somewhere?--Hawkatana (talk) 11:20, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No reason why we can have something like a cultural influence section. Slatersteven (talk) 11:26, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

text: I think we should. Certainly, I would think that a non-trivial amount of people who know of it nowadays learned of it through things like Fire Emblem: The Three Houses. George Mucus (talk) 13:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in popular culture? 

message: There are tons of things to say about Agarthi.
First of all, the work of Rene Guenon.
I am disgusted to see how wikipedia is becoming a pure censorship of anything that goes beyond scientific cult of new millennium and political propaganda.
That's wicked.
Very wicked.
You are just deleting history. Same as nazism. 37.161.25.52 (talk) 16:23, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I am going to be super nice, and tell you to read wp:fringe wp:rs and wp:npa. If you want to be taken seriously here make substantive points and not wp:soapbox like comments. Slatersteven (talk) 16:28, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are you crazy? 

message: I would be bold and change the first sentence to: 
The legend of Agartha remained mostly obscure in Europe until 1910, when Gérard Encausse edited and re-published a detailed 1886 account by the nineteenth-century French occultist Alexandre Saint-Yves d'Alveydre (1842–1909), Mission de l'Inde en Europe.
Which I think is much better, but I'd probably screw up the references... 2A02:A210:A1C0:E280:34A7:8962:9E0A:200E (talk) 14:49, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: agartha is it real 110.54.160.212 (talk) 14:34, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: RS generally say no, and we reflect that. Slatersteven (talk) 14:35, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  agartha is it real