Category talk:Crusades

message: Seems like there ought to be a "Crusaders" subcategory that can also be a subcat of :Category:People too. Stan 05:25, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Who would go in it? People who actually went on crusade, surely, but what about some of the others, who just lived in the Kingdom of Jerusalem? Adam Bishop 03:44, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You could - the Muslims still call them that. :-) Perhaps "people of the Frankish East"? Stan 05:57, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe "people of the Crusades" or "people involved in the Crusades" or just simply "Crusade people"? Adam Bishop 08:10, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Analogy with subcats of :Category:People associated with wars suggests "Crusades people", but there were some lengthy periods of relative peace in there. That's why I thought of "Frankish East" - another term I see we use is "Crusader state", suggesting "people of the Crusader states" or "Crusader states people". Stan 14:58, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What about Muslim people categorized under Crusades? "Crusader allies and enemies," like the similar category for the Romans? Adam Bishop 19:27, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The "allies and enemies" category always seemed a little confused to me, because it includes both individuals and groups of people. Seems like the Muslims should generally have their own nationality cats. The "Crusades" category is still fine as an auxiliary for people who have other "home" or "is-a" categories, for instance Saladin should probably be in a :Category:Ayyubids. It occurs that my original comment about "Crusader" is confused, because "crusader" is more like a so-called "business card" category, like explorer or dentist; a French crusader is still French. But someone born in a Crusader state can't really be called "French" or any other European nationality, so they have to be a distinct subcategory of people, while "Crusaders" and "Crusade enemies" can be added to any nationality of person who participated. Stan 07:17, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Wow, pretty spiffy. Saying "Crusade people (Franks)" seems more flavorful, but probably less accurate. Some articles will be hard to subcategorize, just leave them at the top. (After all, if it's not obvious to you, it won't be obvious to anybody else as to which subcategory to look in.) Not clear that we have enough material for subcats for each crusade - I tend to favor larger categories and not so many cats on each article, but others avidly create 1-article "categories". As for Crusader state people subcats, I wouldn't create one unless I had at least ten non-rulers to seed it with, readers will have no trouble finding a "princes of Antioch" subcat listed under the more generic "Crusade people (Christians)" cat. No Jews involved with the Crusades at all? Stan 17:58, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! I'd prefer just to stick everything into one "Crusades" category, but I guess the idea is to break them up. There's not many Jews involved...Soloman bar Samson, Eliezer ben Nathan, and perhaps Benjamin of Tudela come to mind, but no one else that we have articles for, anyway. Adam Bishop 05:08, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree that the Crusader state subcats should probably be limited. We already have a category for Dukes of Athens, and adding one for Princes of Achaea, Latin Emperors, and maybe Dukes of the Archipelago would make sense. (Barons of Baccari should also get dropped, they're post-Crusade.) It would be kinda neat to make the distinction between Crusaders from overseas and "native" Crusaders, but it wasn't always a clear one, and the only terms I can remember are insulting, anyway ("Poitevins" and "Poulains"). Peter I and II of Cyprus should also go in (articles recently created). Hodierna seems to have spent most of her career in Tripoli, so filing her under "County of Tripoli" (if we create that category) seems reasonable. (We could create separate categories for regents of the various states, but they might be kinda small.) Subcategorizing by crusade is OK, I suppose, but there'll be people who fit into multiple crusades (St. Louis), and probably some denizens of Outremer who are just generic Crusaders. Choess 06:40, 2005 Jun 24 (UTC)
*I'm going to start moving the articles into the suggested categories. Once we have the basic categorization done, we can hammer out the details. --Hemlock Martinis 05:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)