Talk:Operation Nickel Grass

message: Another Air Force decision was vindicated by Nickel Grass however; the C-5 Galaxy purchase. Since their introduction in 1970, the C-5 had been plagued by problems, not least of which was the deadly crash of a C-5 during Operation Babylift in which half the 300 onboard died. The Air Force claimed to have rectified the problems, but the C-5 was still viewed by the press and public as a monstrously expensive failure. During Nickel Grass, C-5s carried 48% of the total cargo in only 145 of the 567 total missions.
This has some chronological problems.
I really don't know anythign about th C-5 galaxy or its problems but the operation babylift hapened two years after operation nickel grass so it doesn;t flow very well that Operation Nickel Grass built up support for the C-5 Galaxy aircraft when the diaster didn't happen until two years after the act that built up its reputation.
:Bah! That's my fault. None of the references I used specifically cited Operation Babylift, I just identified that from my memory as one of the significant failures of the C-5. I'll fix the article up. -Lommer | talk 22:18, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chronological problems with Operation Babylift Reference 

message: I say there are, plus the style shows it was written AGF back when WP regs weren't so strict. Yes at some level it needs to be grandfathered in, but that is NO JUSTIFICATION for labelling it as open to challenge and subject to deletion. Maybe those who want to "cut it back" should spend their time finding the ONE OR TWO more cites that it perhaps needs, and less time trying to work with the admins to "make sure the tag sticks" 72.0.180.2 (talk) 02:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: adequate number of refs?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I miss the role of the Netherlands, which was also under full embargo, as were more countries:
The initial nations targeted were Canada, Japan, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom and the United States with the embargo also later extended to Portugal, Rhodesia and South Africa. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis
Could/should be reflected in 2nd paragraph: 'to use oil as a "weapon" and declared a complete oil embargo on the United States, and restrictions on other countries. '
Imo also to be included:
" In 1973, during the Yom Kippur War, the Netherlands was one of only two European countries (the other being Portugal) that allowed American aircraft ferrying military equipment to Israel as part of Operation Nickel Grass to use its airbases. The Netherlands also supplied Israel with military equipment during the war, primarily engines, spare parts, and shells for its British-built Centurion tanks after the British government had imposed an arms embargo on Israel and thus cut off Israel's original source for this material, but also parts and munitions for light AMX tanks, artillery ammunition, and aircraft bombs.[4] "
from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Netherlands_relations
to be found after note 3 and up to note 5  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C00:181D:A600:9984:E832:C043:FBEF (talk) 14:07, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  role of the Netherlands 

message: Case in point...
In the section titled 'Operation', an editor used a source that appeared to him or her that the United States delivered 100 F-4E Phantoms to the Israeli Air Force as part of Operation Nickel Grass. The sentence as seen in this current version (as of February 28, 2020) of the article reads:
'...consequently, at least 100 F-4 Phantom II fighters were sent to Israel under Nickel Grass, coming from the 4th Tactical Fighter Wing, the 33d Tactical Fighter Wing and the 57th Fighter Weapons Wing...' 
If the editor who put this information in the article had read the source correctly, he or she would have realised that the number of Phantoms mentioned in the source is the TOTAL AMOUNT of F-4E Phantoms in the Israeli Air Force inventory, and NOT the total amount delivered to the Israelis as part of Operation Nickel Grass. As per the source:
'...we have received new supplies, mainly in Phantoms, for which we are grateful. Our problem is crews. There are 69-70 crews left, who can use 80-100 Phantoms...'
Note the source provided by the editor did not say 80-100 Phantoms were delivered to the Israeli Air Force, rather that there were 80-100 Phantoms that were available to the Israeli Air Force. There are a multitude of sources that state the total number of F-4Es delivered during the operation was 34 aircraft. And since the same source says that 32 F-4Es were lost prior to the delivery, well, you can do the math on how many F-4Es Israel at the start of the war, as well as how many they actually had after getting the extra aircraft delivered. MainBattery (talk) 11:20, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editors mis-reading source material, then writing it up as fact. 

message: In the introduction, it reads "(MAC)shipped 22,325". There is a space missing. --Jadephx (talk) 13:31, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor typographic error 

message: No mention is made to the delivery of critical ECM ( electronic counter measures) to the IAF that countered the effectiveness of Arab SAMs.
Most of the " black boxes" were taken from our line fighters for use to the IAF resulting in fewer losses from SAMs. 2600:100E:B13B:EB0E:0:56:F968:8501 (talk) 06:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  ECM deliveries 

message: "George Brown, Chairman of the American Joint Chiefs of Staff, resigned after criticizing the resupply effort. According to Time magazine, Brown's criticisms included the opinion that the airlift was driven in part by Jews controlling the American banking system."
George Brown in fact served as CJCS till 1978, resigning due to cancer. 
The Time magazine source is from 1974 and never stated that he resigned. The Asia Times article seems inaccessible so I cannot check what it said. Either case, the link to his 1978 resignation is unsubstantiated, and if so, the effect of his opinion (in comparison to the opinion of dozens of other officials involved, or academic opinions) also falls below the WP:NOTABLE mark. So, I recommend removal. Ceconhistorian (talk) 16:31, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resignation of George Brown in 1974? 

message: In this article, George Brown is said to have resigned in protest of operation nickel glass. Yet according to the Wikipedia article on Brown, he only became chairman in 1974, after the conclusion of the war. So this article contains a falsehood. I can’t correct it; I hope someone will. 99.189.66.86 (talk) 19:12, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  George Brown 

message: The article says "the tankers were ferrying factory-fresh Douglas A-4 Skyhawk and F-4 Phantom II aircraft flying non-stop from the factory in St. Louis, Missouri to Ben Gurion Airport." The meaning is unclear; does it mean that A-4 were ferried, and F-4 were flown directly to Ben Gurion Airport, or something else? None of the cites sources say that F-4 were flown directly to Israel. On the contrary, one source says F-4Es were ferried to Israel, and another says that A-4 were flown directly to Israel. If there is any source that says F-4 were also flown directly to Israel, it should be added, otherwise the sentence should be rewritten according to sources mentioned here. Happyseeu (talk) 21:25, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  F-4 Phantom II aircraft flying non-stop to Ben Gurion Airport? 

message: Change suggestion: Add the map of the transportation route between blocked airspaces of Western Europe and North Africa in paragraph "Operation":
 Christianh (talk) 12:11, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: the map doesn't appear to be sourced. M.Bitton (talk) 00:51, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me!  00:42, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 October 2023 

message: * :
* General George Brown did not resign and served the next President, Jimmy Carter. The cited source does not state that Gen Brown resigned. In response to his remark (per the linked cited source), Senator William Proxmire of Wisconsin called for Brown's resignation. :
* :
SagAstar5424 (talk) 16:18, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: * Pppery * it has begun... 22:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected edit request [factual error in text]