Talk:Che Guevara/Archive 7

message: I have just noticed that a short time ago a wikipedian entered a comment re CG's last words in an incorrect location here on the Talk page, so I am creating this as a new topic and will transfer his comment into it.
Polaris999 05:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your version sounds highly credible to me but please provide a source that meets Wikipedia standards as explained in WP:V and then make the change accompanied by the required source note and citation in the "References" section.  Perhaps you did not notice that the version included here has a source note showing that it is from the book by Jon Lee Anderson (page 739, if you wish to verify it). -- Polaris999 07:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I suspect that the exact words may never be known, though all transcriptions seem to include something to the effect of "you are about to kill a man." But it isn't like there was a tape recorder running or a number of impartial witnesses. If there are significant citable variations, we should probably mention them in a footnote. - Jmabel | Talk 18:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, Jmabel.  I have been at work researching this. There is a significant preponderance of evidence in favor of the "Serénese y apunte bien! Usted va a matar un hombre!" version.  I want to check a few more sources, but if these concur I think that we can make the change. Also, it does appear that, upon realizing that he was about to be executed, Guevara had struggled to his feet with the comment, "I want to be standing for this."  Those, however, were not exactly his last words. -- Polaris999 04:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For felix's quote to be accurate "dejeme ponerme de pie!" Would translate to "Let me get to my feet." Throw 08:07, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Che Guevara's Last Words 

message: At 17:27, 9 July 2006, User:Sniggity  inserted the following two sentences into the "Capture and Execution" sub-section:
::According to a program on the  The History Channel, Félix Rodríguez briefly spoke with Che on the evening prior to his execution and informed Che that he was to be executed. After being told, there are reports from Rodriguez and a guard that Che turned white as a ghost and could barely speak a word.
There are some problems with this text. First, it is not properly referenced as per the WP:CITE criteria. When adding information to this featured article, please provide a source that meets Wikipedia standards as established in WP:V and then create:
:::* (1) the required source note, and
:::* (2) the corresponding citation in the "References" section.
Second, one point all sources seem to be in agreement about concerning Guevara's final hours is the fact that Félix Rodríguez arrived in La Higuera aboard a helicopter with Colonel Zenteno early on the morning of 09 October. There is no record of his having been in La Higuera and spoken with Guevara the evening before  (see, for example, Taibo, Paco Ignacio II. Ernesto Guevara, también conocido como el Che, page 701). Guevara was executed at approximately 1:10 pm on 09 October, so he was not alive the evening of 09 October to be speaking with anyone. Therefore, in order for the sentence you have inserted to be correct (assuming that you heard it clearly) either Rodríguez has changed his story after all these years, or the History Channel misrepresented what he said.  It is important to document which case applies if this sentence is going to be added to the article.  Thank you -- Polaris999 22:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final Hours 

message: I'm coming at this from the persective of someone who knows little about the subject, I was reading to learn and noticed a few things. In the "Guatemala" section, a woman "Hilda Gadea" is introduced as Che's main political contact. The next reference is to Che selling her jewelry, it isn't until later in the "Cuba" section that they are noted as being in a relationship. The sentence directly after the jewelry selling is "Then, on May 15, 1954, a shipment of high-quality Skoda infantry and light artillery weapons sent from Communist Czechoslovakia for the Arbenz Government arrived in Puerto Barrios aboard the Swedish ship Alfhem.", but there is no clear reference as to why this is particulary important to the article, and the paragraph goes on talking about tonnage of this shipment and Che going to get a new Visa. I can kind of connect the dots, but it seems to me a bit confusing the way it is written.--Trees4est 02:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the "Guatemala" section needs cleanup.  The editor who "created" it doesn't seem to be active on this article any more, so I guess that someone else needs to undertake the task.  Volunteers? -- Polaris999 23:02, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Polaris, do I take it from that remark that you are not volunteering? On the whole, I've been impressed with your consistently knowledgable and even-handed treatment of this controversial figure. - Jmabel | Talk 00:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Jmabel, thank you very much for your words of encouragement, but I was thinking it would be good if someone else were to "take a turn". Among other things, I find it confusing that (as you remark below in the topic "Size again") many readers/editors have been complaining that the article is too long, but then when someone more than doubles the length of the lead section by merely repeating information that is already included elsewhere in the article, neither these people, nor anyone else, seems to object.  I do not know how to interpret this seeming contradiction and until (unless) I understand it, I do not think that I will be doing much work on this article. -- Polaris999 05:52, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have undertaken a major re-write of the Guatemala section in an attempt to address the issues mentioned above but did not want to use the actual Che Guevara article as my "scratchpad".  I therefore created a sandbox for this purpose at Talk:Che_Guevara/Sandbox/Guatemala#Work_in_progress. I would appreciate feedback as to whether my draft should replace the existing section, or whether it should be further improved (and how), and/or other suggestions.  Thank you -- Polaris999 21:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As twenty-four hours have passed without any comments concerning the re-write, I have moved it into the main article so editors can modify it there if they wish, or revert it if they think the previous version was better. -- Polaris999 21:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some general problems?