Talk:Postal counties of the United Kingdom/Archive 1

message: For an example of current Royal Mail usage of the county boundaries, take a look at this list, released through BBC News, of disrupted areas in the last postal strike. 
I've undone the mass deletion because the new text was very POV. Whilst the current Royal Mail policy may be in place, it has not filtered through in many areas - many organisations and individuals still include the county line as a matter of course. A lot of online sites will not process an order without an entry in the county box (which can lead to the notion of "London, London"!). And the policy changeover was only 8 years ago (and even then not very well flagged) - many people still instinctively use the county on their postal address as the county they live in, regardless of what set of administrative boundaries are used this week. Timrollpickering 14:56, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: There's nothing wrong with instinctively using the county on their postal address, in fact so long as it's the right one it helps to re-inforce the fact that traditional counties still exist. What I object to is getting things through the mail, or using online address validators that have old administrative areas on them (that only existed for 22 years) instead of my traditional county. In this regard, it's no longer the Royal Mail's fault (although they created this mess in the first place) - it's the resellers of PAF data that re-include the nonsensical postal counties in their products. We should be lobbying them! Owain 15:25, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: BBC News item

message: Thanks to Mrsteviec for the recent improvements.
One section that's still not quite right is the Popular Usage section.  I remember an official Post Office leaflet from 1974ish that said that postal counties were not needed for places like Hereford and Reading.  I'd like to have the complete list and could probably reconstruct the post towns as counties part but not the large towns part.
I have been looking on the PO Museum and Archive site for the leaflet but the nearest I can find is Post Office Postal Services information sheets relating to effects of the Local Government Act 1974 on postal addressing.  If that link doesn't work, search this page for Finding No = POST 17/273.
I'm in Northern Ireland so it's not too handy to pop into the Archive in London to see if the sheets or something like the leaflet I remember are available.  The record for the sheets does say "AccessStatus Not Yet Opened" so they might not be available anyway.  There is an e-mail address on the site for enquires if anyone is interested enough to follow this up.  --Cavrdg 21:41, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Many thanks. I've changed the wording to reflect that the direction came from Royal Mail rather than users. It would be great to include a full list of these places. MRSC 07:06, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent Changes & PO Archive

message: I've moved this from the page as some are very dubious e.g. City of Edinburgh - that was post town that did not require a postal county - not a postal county itself. Will try and get a verified list. MRSC 10:20, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That list is obviously bogus - it is the list of Lieutenancy areas from the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973, not a list of postal counties. In any case the Act didn't come into force until 1975 anyway! Owain 09:31, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Scotland

message: Isn't the "coverage notes" column a bit redundant? As has previously been explained postal counties could cross adjacent administrative counties, so for example all postal counties could have a "Covered part of..." <insert adjacent administrative county here>. Owain (talk) 13:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New tables

message: So, it turns out that the Salford and Sale post towns are enclaves within the Manchester post town.  Was the postal county for Sale 'Cheshire', then, making it an enclave of Cheshire postal county in Lancashire postal county?  If so that is probably weird enough to worth noting (as would be other enclaves, if we found them : I suppose the detached part of Middlesex also).  
(Apart from this I wonder if there are other examples of post towns being enclaves of other post towns - even when differing counties aren't involved.  Bootle might possibly be one, although it faces the coast).  Morwen - Talk 17:34, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Erith post town covers DA8 and DA18 with Belvedere (DA17) completely separating the two. The two Bootle geographic districts (L20 and L30) share a common boundary (L69 and L70 non-geographic are shared with Liverpool post town). MRSC 18:51, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

text: It appears that the Stansted, Essex (CM24) post town was entirely surrounded by the Bishop's Stortford, Herts. post town (CM22 and CM23), which gave the Essex postal county an exclave in Hertfordshire. I'm intrigued to know if there are many more... MRSC • Talk 08:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe you sussed this out already, but i don't believe Sale was an enclave: looking in a postcode atlas the southern boundary of M33 (Sale)adjoins WA14 and WA15 which are Altrincham.Lozleader 09:04, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fragments and detached parts

message: This is partly explained by Corby, M., The postal business, 1969-79, (1979). The planned modernisation was still not in place by 1976 and the Post Office had been in financial chaos from the 1960s due to a 11% increase in delivery points (addresses) but a comparable drop in post volume. So it became more expensive to deliver less business. The boundary changes of 1965/1974/1975 would all have caught the Post Office at a bad time, either in financial chaos or while still trying to get to grips with modernisation. MRSC 11:09, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Postal counties mess

message: Shall we undisambiguate and move this to postal county?  are there any other types of postal counties?  Morwen - Talk 08:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. I doubt it. MRSC 09:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Move

message: Does the PAF really contain "West Berkshire" in the administrative county field? (I ask because the non-metropolitan county of Berkshire exists). Morwen - Talk 22:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Assuming  is using alias data (which I think is likely as it is using the same field names as the Royal Mail PAF/Alias file documentation), then yes. It seems likely the 'traditional' and 'administrative' data was only added in 2000 (at least that is implied in the documentation). Remembering this is purely for the purposes of eliminating postally-not-required details added by users, the Royal Mail is probably adopting its own definition of 'administrative county' to catch anything else a user might add. Berkshire would already be held in the 'traditional' and 'former postal' field. MRSC • Talk 23:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Administrative county

message: It appears this situation is/was not unique to the UK. According to the article Kentucky Bend, this area of Kentucky has a postal address of Tiptonville, Tennessee. MRSC • Talk 16:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Postal 'states'

message: I have discovered the mechanics of the creation of the new former postal county of Rutland from part of Leicestershire in January 2008.  This will be achieved by the following:
Post town               	District	Sectors      	Postal county
OAKHAM (all)            	LE15    	All (6-9)    	Rutland
MARKET HARBOROUGH (part)	LE16    	Part (8 only)	Rutland
LE16 Sector 8 crosses the Leicestershire/Rutland/Northamptonshire boundary, so this will create some new anomalies:
Locality  	Geographic county	Post town        	Postal county
Caldecott 	Rutland          	MARKET HARBOROUGH	Rutland
Bringhurst	Leicestershire   	MARKET HARBOROUGH	Rutland
Braybrooke	Northamptonshire 	MARKET HARBOROUGH	Rutland
* MARKET HARBOROUGH will become the only UK post town split between two former postal counties
*LE16 will become the only UK postcode district split between two former postal counties
* Rutland localities in PE9 (Belmesthorpe, Essendine) are not mentioned so I assume remain part of the Lincolnshire postal county. 
LE15 possibly extends into neighbouring counties but all addresses in that area would be "OAKHAM, Rutland", which is pretty much what would be expected in the existing arrangement. MRSC • Talk 13:37, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This will not be the only postcode district split between postal counties. It appears Royal Mail made a similar concession for IP21 4 and IP21 5 which are both split ("shared sectors") between DISS, Norfolk and EYE, Suffolk. It looks like their policy is really "we won't consider changes, unless you complain loudly enough". MRSC • Talk 11:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes for Rutland

message: Might be worth organising the various campaigns into a section. 
*Ilford - Essex > London 
*West Heath - London > Kent 
*Seaton Delaval Tyne and Wear > Northumberland 
*Avon > Somerset / Gloucestershire 
As Royal Mail let one through, they may have to reconsider others. MRSC • Talk 13:56, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Other campaigns