Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Archive-Mar2007

message: List of Division I schools that have never sponsored football has been listed for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Division I schools that have never sponsored football. --MECU≈talk 17:07, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And why would this list be noteable?  It used to be known as Division I-AAA. -- KelleyCook 15:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a discussion for the AFD page. There is no need to comment here as well. --MECU≈talk 15:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  AFD of List of Division I schools that have never sponsored football 

message: *Another AFD is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/HornFans.  This one is about a fan site for Texas sports teams (primarily football, as you might imagine). Johntex\talk 05:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Wikipedia College Football project needs a policy about Fanboy sites 

message: One of the slightly annoying problems with team year pages is that some of them don't exist.  So when we make a schedule section for the 2006 Virginia Tech Hokies football team and the Hokies play Duke, Duke doesn't have an article right now.  But at some point in the future they might.  A similar problem might occur if we want to refer to the Southern Methodist Mustangs football program.  Right now, there is neither an article about their football team nor even about their athletics department.  So I would have to link to the school and at some point when one of the articles gets written, we have to go through the annoying process of fixing the link.
Well, I've created a new template that will solve this issue: .
If I want to link to the SMU football team, I would use this line:

The resulting link would be: 
The same would work for team year pages.  The 2007 Florida State Seminoles football team page doesn't exist yet, but it will at some point:


This would give us:  (2007) or  (2006).
So anywhere that we have a table of opponents, we can use this template and it will always generate a blue link and will always have the best available link available. Any thoughts? --BigDT 06:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's one other thing that I thought of that we could do with this.  We could make a  that would accept "2006", "Florida State Seminoles", and "Florida State University".  It would then go through the same logic of which link to show, but it would give us the added flexibility of in the future changing our display to something like this - Virginia Tech (team, school).  (I'm not saying we would - I'm just throwing that out there as a potential reason for making your code generic.) --BigDT 15:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Awesome. I tried to create something like this months ago but failed. I think it's important to note that we should only use this when trying to link to a season page, or football page when we know it doesn't exist. There's no sense in replacing all the current links with this. It's also important to trying and incorporate all the possible links you can (without overlinking!) to help build the web of WP. So, if you're linking to the 2007 page, and you know it exists, then don't use this. --MECU≈talk 15:14, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I went on and put together .  Check it out.  I think this one will work even better. --BigDT 19:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linking to team pages that might not exist 

message: :I've made all the changes to the coach templates. I've also standardized where the title links to, as there were many variations. They all now link to the "<school> <nickname> football" page, whether it exists or not. As such, it's time to go through all the templates and add DEFAULTSORT to the pages (it's now even in the handy edit box for ease!). You can then remove the coach categories that are included by the template, which are only the ones the person was a head coach for. If any other coach categories exist for his assistant coaching positions, you need to leave those. But sure to make a comment in the edit summary that you are removing these categories because they are now included by template, so hopefully you won't get accused of vandalism. Also, you could help out and verify if the article is a stub and if it has the project banner on the talk page. If you don't feel comfortable rating the article, that's fine, but putting at least  on the talk page will be a great help! So pick your favorite schools and run through them! I appreciate the help. (I've already done Wyoming BTW). 
:Also, we should try and get the NFL and MLB projects to use our navbox so it matches a little better with the surrounding ones and they can have the VDE capability too. And if the capability ever arrives of colorizing the hide/show, we can add all them instantly with one change. --MECU≈talk 21:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes made to coaches template

message: :Lastly, I came across :Category:LSU assistant football coaches. Do we really need a category for assistants off :Category:LSU Tigers football coaches? I think it's an okay idea. If folks agree, then while we're going through all the pages for the above reasons, we could convert any remaining football categories to the assistant varieties. Any thoughts? --MECU≈talk 21:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I really don't think an assistant coach category is necessary. I'd even go so far as recommending that for WP:CFD. Too much overcategorization.↔NMajdan•talk 21:09, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Preface:  I didn't create the category.  When I saw this category I really liked it because it gave us the ability to differentiate assistant coaches from head coaches.  For example, one time a long time ago I clicked on the :Category:LSU Tigers football coaches link and saw that it had Mack Brown in it.  Now, I knew Mack Brown was never the head coach of LSU, but even though I'm a super-huge LSU fan, I never knew he was an assistant coach at LSU prior to that day.  At first I thought it was a mistake, but then I read Mack Brown's article and saw it mention his time at LSU.  The assistant coach category helps clear up that confusion.  The assistant coach category is nicely populated with coaches that are now or have been head coaches at other schools, or are expected to get head coaching jobs in the future (Bo Pelini and Jimbo Fisher). I think it would be great for other schools to have the same thing.  For example, I'm sure major programs like Nebraska, Oklahoma, Florida, etc. have had some assistant coaches go on to do some great things.  And as much as I know about college football, I still learn new stuff all the time.  And Wikipedia allows that because of categories like this one in question.  I vote to keep the category and to create similar categories for schools that have enough coaching stars to justify it. Seancp 22:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Assistant coaches category?

message: In an effort to assist the Biography WikiProject, I've been trying to add our biography articles to the Sports and Games task force. To me, it makes perfect sense to try to get our articles exposed to as many groups as possible. So, if you come across a talk page of a biographical article in our project, please add it the Biography WikiProject. If the article is not apart of the Biography WP at all, add  and if it already has the WPBiography banner, just add |sports-work-group=yes to it. Thanks for the help!↔NMajdan•talk 14:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll chip in later tonight. Thanks for letting us know of the need! — PSUMark2006 talk | contribs 18:30, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assist [[WPP:BIO]] 

message: *"Post-season" vs "After the season": I Think that the "Post-season" section could better be renamed to something like "After the season".  A conversation on this point has started on an article talk page.  Please come by and participate. Thanks! Johntex\talk 15:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Yearly page formats

message: Please take a look at the LSU Tigers football page and look at the sections titled "Rankings" & "Results vs. AP Top 10 Opponents".  I think that information is great information but I don't think it belongs in the LSU Tigers football article.  I don't want to get rid of it, though, so I'm thinking of creating a new article and I need help naming it.  The best I could come up with was LSU Tigers football statistics but that's not really accurate because this info isn't statistics.  What would be a good article title for information of this variety?  I don't think it should be too narrow, like LSU Tigers football rankings or LSU Tigers football results versus AP top 10 opponents because that limits it too much.  I'd like a title that is welcoming of the typical information you'd find in the school's football media guide.  You know....all those tidbits of information that are great but really don't fit into specific category.  So, anyone have any suggestions?  Thanks for your help! Seancp 21:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: LSU Tigers football history?  It could include poll history among other things in that article as well, and it wouldn't be too narrow. VegaDark 21:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That almost sounds to overly broad to me. If I stumbled upon that article, I would expect to see an actual history of LSU Tigers football, not just random statistics. You want your article title to sum up exactly what is in the article so if that is all the article will ever contain, then a limiting title may be necessary. Now, if you plan on writing a history of the football program at LSU, then that title would be ok.↔NMajdan•talk 21:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that is almost too discriminate, with a positive bias for the team's history (in other words, it's not NPOV IMHO). I'll venture a guess that the record is fairly good? Anyways, anything short of Colorado Buffaloes football year-by-year results (or broken down further, like, "Colorado Buffaloes football results since 2000") would be too arbitrary a cutoff point. The only way I can see to make it balanced is to include all ranked opponents, not just top 10. Be sure to include a tid-bit about this in the main LSU football article and use Template:main to link to this one so you can claim it's more of a sub-page than a separate article. --MECU≈talk 22:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, I actually went and looked at it and don't think it's POV pushing, but in general, that article needs way more citations: there are 2 for the whole article. Especially the section on "Prominent players": Who says? There are players listed there that aren't listed as being an All-American ever, so it doesn't make sense to me. If you can show to me another media guide that presents the same information, I'd clearly say it's welcome. I don't think the current top-10 section is that long, but I could see it getting very long. Perhaps that information could just go on the LSU Tigers under Nick Saban types? The rankings info could as well. Also, you are overlinking items. You don't need to link every instance a coach's name appears or every single-year date. See Wikipedia:Only make links that are relevant to the context. Once per section is acceptable. You can look at the top-ten results section after I cleaned up this aspect of it for an example. Also, sorry for claiming you were POV pushing. --MECU≈talk 14:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Help Name a new page

message: I nominated Knute Rockne, one of the top college football articles for Wikipedia Article Improvement Drive. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 01:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Knute Rockne]] on [[WP:AID]] 

message: I'd like some feedback on this template system I put together before I move it to Template space. Also, if you have a better name for it I'd appreciate that as well. See User:Mecu/AmFootballScoreSummaryStart. I also think it could be jazzed up a little, color-wise if someone has any ideas. Feel free to edit it in the current location too. --MECU≈talk 14:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've "published" to template space for use. Template:AmFootballScoreSummaryStart. Does anyone think this would be good or bad to use in the season articles under the weekly summaries? Or should it only be used in articles wholly about a game, such as a bowl game? --MECU≈talk 15:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My initial thinking is that if there was a way to have a parameter to auto-collapse the summary (like ), it would be a useful addition to the game summaries on season articles. — PSUMark2006 talk | contribs 17:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. The forced-width 70% I don't like, so if someone encounters a problem with this, I can quickly add a field to allow controlling the width. --MECU≈talk 12:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Very cool! — PSUMark2006 talk | contribs 14:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feedback requested on scoring summary templates 

message: I just created the 2007 College Football Hall of Fame ballot article. There are actually articles for most of the men on the ballot, but there are still quite a few red links. If they're good enough to be on the CFB HOF ballot, they should probably have an article about them. Of course, if you have ideas for the list as well, please feel free to edit. I'm thinking this is more of a list, so I'd like to push this to a featured list, once the selections are announced in May. --MECU≈talk 15:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, looks great. I'm working on de-red linking Clendon Thomas. Its his last chance to get inducted.↔NMajdan•talk 16:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

text: De-red linking is so tedious, you know? I've been working on List of Georgia Institute of Technology alumni#American football, and let me tell you, it isn't fun. Perhaps I'll kill two birds with one stone and do the one guy that's on both lists next. That article looks great, by the way. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 16:23, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  2007 College Football Hall of Fame ballot 

message: There are a couple templates I worked on a few weeks ago that I'd like to get this project's opinion on. One was requested by the College basketball WikiProject. It was to create a basketball equivalent to . Instead of creating a near duplicate of this template, I was able to modify it to handle both sports. You can view it at User:Nmajdan/Test. I have had one complaint that combining these two was not a good idea. I wanted to get other opinions before I moved my version to template-space and renamed the template. Since it would now handle football and basketball, the name would have to change (but the current name would still redirect to the new name so nothing would break).
Another new template was created that looked identical to  so I suggested that it may be possible to combine these templates into one. This template can be viewed at User:Nmajdan/Template1. Right now, it combines the general athletic infobox, a wrestling team infobox, and a basketball team infobox. It was well received by one editor but, again, I wanted to get a wider opinion before proceeding.
Any advice would be appreciated.↔NMajdan•talk 14:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know I'm impressed. Then again, I'm the one that requested in the first place, so of course I'm happy :) —Disavian (talk/contribs) 16:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

text: There's no reason why these essentially redundant templates shouldn't be consolidated. Infobox standardization is always a good thing in my book. Great work as usual. — PSUMark2006 talk | contribs 17:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's exactly my thoughts.  If we can get one infobox customizable enough to do exactly what individual templates would do, except standardizes everything, that is a big improvement.  Could be expanded for baseball and other sports as well. VegaDark 20:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need opinion on a couple templates 

message: There was a discussion here about the Yearly History Template. One of the suggestions which was carried out was to remove the three seperate columns for the Bowls (Bowl Name, Bowl Outcome, Bowl Opponent) that had existed in the old Coaching History Template.
I had been unaware that the Coaching History Template had been deprecated, and so I had added it to a number of pages (Bear Bryant, Steve Spurrier, etc...), I had also included all of the extra Bowl information.
So, my question is - is anyone opposed if those columns get added back (as optional) to the Yearly History Template? I'm planning on transitioning some of these coaches pages to use the new template, and I'd like to see that information stay there. Obviously, I spent a bit of time tracking down all this info for six or seven different coaches throughout their careers at different schools, so partly I'd just like my work to stay around :-P But on a more impartial note, given that Bowls are the postseason for college football, I do think that listing the opponent adds something to the tables beyond simply taking up extra space. Compare  with . I like being able to see at a glance that Pete Carroll has beaten Michigan twice in the Rose Bowl, as opposed to just seeing that he's 2-1 in three Rose Bowl appearances.
Thoughts? Cogswobble 17:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding more Bowl Information to Yearly History Template