Talk:Ojibwe dialects

message: 1. I've added a section "Classification" to provide background as well as a list of dialects, with justification coming from contemprorary research in Valentine 1994. I've included references for all of this material. Hint hint.
2. I've added a section "Status of Potawatomi" to give context on the Ojibwe-Potawatomi relationship. In particular it makes clear that while assuming that Ojibwe-Potawatomi is a genetic subgroup, in fact no one has done the homework on detailing this.
3. I've added a  tag - the lack of sourcing on virtually all the Ojibwe pages is truly amazing.
Thanks. John. Jomeara421 (talk) 02:16, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  New material on this page 

message: 1. There is no justification for having a section on Michif in this article. The Michif language (much of which was written by Rich Rhodes, who has provided much of linguistic description of Michif) makes it clear that Michif has some words borrowed from Ojibwe, but that's all.
2. The article on Bungee language makes it clear that Bungee is a variety of English with borrowing from a variety of sources, one of which is Ojibwe.
So while these two might merit a passing mention in a paragraph about borrowing, the way they are presented in the article is not accurate, and they should be removed.
Thanks. John.  Jomeara421 (talk) 02:24, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michif and Bungee in this article 

message: Rational for English Spelling “Ojibwe” in title.
As part of the project proposed in "Merger Project" on the Talk:Ojibwa language page I have renamed this page, using the spelling "Ojibwe". Here is the rationale for this spelling:
This is now the most commonly used English spelling in academics works by scholars of Ojibwe: John Nichols (multiple publications), John Nichols and Earl Nyholm, J. Randolph Valentine (multiple publications). It is also the spelling that most closely reflects the pronunciation of the word in the language itself. It is also widely used in other contemporary linguistically oriented publications, for multiple dialects.
*Ningewance, Patricia. 1993.  Survival Ojibwe.  Winnipeg: Mazinaate Press. 
*Sugarhead, Cecilia. 1996. ᓂᓄᑕᐣ / Ninoontaan / I can hear it: Ojibwe stories from Lansdowne House written by Cecilia Sugarhead. Edited, translated and with a glossary by John O’Meara. Winnipeg: Algonquian and Iroquoian Linguistics.
*Vollom, Judith L. 1994. Ojibwemowin. Series 1.  Second Edition. Ramsey, Minnesota: Ojibwe Language Publishing.
As well, this is already used for the titles of articles such as Ojibwe grammar, Ojibwe writing systems, and Ojibwe phonology.
John Jomeara421 (talk) 18:52, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rationale for name change 

message: I am proposing to reorganize this article so that it reflects the most current analysis of the relationships between the Ojibwe dialects, i.e. the analysis in Valentine 1994 (in the References section for the article). So doing will improve the article and make it more useful for readers not familiar with Ojibwe. The overall structure will be maintained, i.e. a summary for each dialect, linked to a main article on that dialect. Development of the main articles for each dialect is another project.
I am proposing to:
# Remove the section on "Trade Language" - the content has been rewritten and enhanced in Ojibwe language and duplication is not needed;
# Remove the section on "Anishinaabe pidgin and mixed languages" - the content has been rewritten and enhanced in Ojibwe language, and duplication is not needed;
# Remove the section on "Neshnabémwen" (Potawatomi), which is not a dialect of Ojibwe. There is a separate article on Potawatomi language, and the relationship between Ojibwe and Potawatomi is discussed in Ojibwe language;
#Reorganize the section on Ojibwe dialects to reflect the analysis in Valentine 1994, and include information supported with citations;
#Use names for dialects that are consistent with Valentine and other analyses (Rhodes and Todd, and Ethnologue). This article somewhat confusingly uses names in Ojibwe itself, but misses the point that the indigenous terms don't necessarily match up with dialects, so e.g. "Nishnaabemwin" actually is used for two separate dialects, Ottawa and Eastern Ojibwe. As a result many of the subgroupings given are inaccurate and don't correspond to analyses supported in the published literature.
I will leave the "Language code correspondence table", although the source given as "Linguasphere" appears to be no longer available, and "Freelang" does not link to a discussion of dialects.
Thanks. John. Jomeara421 (talk) 01:28, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: *I would add that this project entails recognizing dialects that are proposed in Valentine 1994 that are not listed in Ethnologue. Jomeara421 (talk) 02:28, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal for reorganizing article 

message: As it stands the article claims that non-contiguous dialects at the margins -- Odawa, Algonquin, and Severn are not very mutually intelligible. Has this been systematically studied? I have seen Severn and Algonquin speakers engage in conversation without difficulty and without prior exposure to each others' dialects (specifically Big Trout Lake and Rapid Lake). On more than one occasion, with different people.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crussell221 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intelligibility  

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thread_title:  External links modified