Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 11

message: Massive archival done by me - page can be found here :-) --HappyCamper 21:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archiving 

message: After working on archiving the reference desks since the end of June, I have now decided to take a break. If anyone wants to take over the transcluding and archiving, then you are welcome to do so. Otherwise I suggest that you may wish to go and recruit a bot. Good luck. :) Road Wizard 20:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your work was really appreciated. Wikipedians, we really need a better solution than manual transclusions...who wants to code a bot? --HappyCamper 02:19, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taking a break 

message: Im surprised that the discussion beteween my self AAAADDDDDAAAAAMM and others was deleted from the page rather than being moved here (which is where I should, of course, have put it in the first place) Now there is no record of what transpired and its as if nothing ever happened (except for my unwarrated loss of 3 days and my extreme disappointment with these proceeddings by certain ADMIN(S) ).
I know its easier to delete things that are unpleasant rather than try to deal with them. But isnt that what the Ministry of Truth did in Orwells 1984? Is WP turning into 1984?
Could I ask User:Anchoress (whom I now realise is an ADMIN -- didnt then) to magic it back and put it here please (at least in the first instance). Destruction of information is not healthy-- however easy and convenient it is to do.
--Light current 18:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As was suggested by Anchoress, you can move those comments back to your user space if you want. Having read the discussion that was removed,  I can see no value for the reference desks in restoring it here. Road Wizard 18:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Its a standard practice to remove personal attacks on sight here at wikipedia. If you don't like it, don't make personal attacks. Also, from WP:CIVIL - a suggestion to stop incvility: "Remove offensive comments on talk pages (since they remain in the page history, anyone can find them again or refer to them later on)"  That was done and is endorsed by policy. pschemp | talk 19:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My god, I missed all of this. I'm sorry if I offended you, I thought I was just giving a friendly heads up. Aaadddaaammm 08:14, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

text: To everyone, FWIW I am not an Admin and I really have no idea why Light current thinks I am. A) I thought I was doing Light current a favour by warning him that his remarks were getting out of hand, and B) I thought I was doing everybody a favour by removing comments that were at best irrelevant and at worst hurtful and inflammatory, both to protect the privacy of those involved and to minimise damage (in part, let it be known, to protect Light current from embarrassment since at the time s/he was blocked and therefore unable to remove his/her own rash words). To tell the truth I'm really hurt by Light current's attitude to this; I would never, ever purposely do something on this board or anywhere to thwart process, to hurt or embarrass someone, or to throw my weight around. I respectfully ask Light current to re-consider his/her judgement of why these things happened, and FWIW I am washing my hands of this user, s/he can romp around Wikipedia unhindered by any further cautionary remarks or damage mitigation by me. Anchoress 08:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted discussion 

message: In the latest archive of this talk page, it appears that the conversation about creating an archiving bot has been lost.  Yesterday, I spent a fair amount of time adding dates, transcluding older posts and archiving things, but a bot is clearly needed to perform this task on a daily basis now that Crypticbot is obselete.  Has any progress been made on this front?  Should we post a request at Wikipedia:Bot requests?
As far as I can tell, the bot must be able to complete the following tasks for each of the six reference desks on a daily basis at approximately 00:00  UTC:
#Start the new date at the bottom of each page
#Archive oldest date
#Transclude questions and answers that are more than 24 hours old (include )
#Add the newly transcluded page to the reference desk archives
Additionally, at the start of each month, the bot would need to create a new monthly reference desk archive page with .
Detailed Example of Bot's Function:
At 00:00 UTC on August 16, 2006, for the Miscellaneous reference desk the bot would:
*Append = August 16 = to the bottom of Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous
*Remove = August 9 = and  from the top of Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous
*Copy all text between = August 14 = and = August 15 = from Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous to Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/2006 August 14
*Prepend that text with the following code and create the new page Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/2006 August 14



*Replace all text between  = August 14 = and = August 15 = on Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous with  and save the page
*Append = August 14 = and Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/2006 August 14 followed by a numbered list of all questions asked to the end of Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/August 2006 and save the page.  For August 14, this would look like:
= August 14 =
Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/2006 August 14
#A type of chair 
#Male Orgasm 
#World Trade Center Movie 
#edits 
#Maps from Nationalatlas.gov 
#Clitoral Hood Piercing 
#Guitar 
#Alexander Graham Bell 
#Cruise control on the 1998 ford windstar 
#Gangster Chronicles TV Series 
#Physics of a bullet 
#T.E.A.M. 
#Who would be richest? 
#My surname is Bencko. 
#Top Hats 
#pounds to dollars 
#The New York Pass
-- C. S. Joiner (talk) 21:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you have summed up most of it. However, if the bot programming can handle it, adding  to transcluded and monthly archive pages would be useful. Road Wizard 21:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  It was included in bullet point #4 in the detailed example, but not in the numbered list.  I've now added it to the numbered description as well and I'll post to Wikipedia:Bot requests -- C. S. Joiner (talk) 22:44, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I really need to get some sleep. My eyes just skipped right over that first box of code. o_O Road Wizard 23:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Reference Desk Bot? 

message: Did you forget about Rodney Perry, Sr., ex-pro football player for the LA Rams, and other teams?  His son, Rod Jr. also is a winner!  Rodney was born in Fresno, and was one of the first famous people from Fresno, CA.  As well as Earl Meyers, Jr., Baratone, 3 time Carnigie Hall performer.  Then you have Patsy Perry, Vocalist in Fresno, CA.  Even though she was not born in Fresno, she has given much of her time & talent to the community.
There are so many other folks that have helped Fresno!
:You'd probably have better luck posting this to Talk:Fresno, California. Alternatively, you could be bold and post this info on the Fresno page yourself! Isopropyl 23:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rodney Perry, Sr. and Rodney Perry, Jr. 

message: Help! I wanted to add some info on the bell question. There was an edit conflict and I messed everything up! Now all the text since Aug 19th is gone. I can't revert from this computer/firefox because it wont give me the full text in the edit box.
Please help out, someone! I wont have a chance to revert this until 4h from now. Thanks in advance. ---Sluzzelin 17:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. ---Sluzzelin 20:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accidentally deleted everything since Aug 19th or so! Can't revert. 

message: Ok guys, I decided I would put the headers up when it hits 24:00 UTC. Who is doing the archiving nowaydays if anybody? We need to get a bot to do it. — [Mac Davis] (talk)
*Nobody is, the last archive was on August 13th--71.247.243.173 19:41, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *OK, I've just removed the transcluded pages for August 14-18.  Can somebody else please take on archiving the days after that ? StuRat 11:00, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Archiving is the easy part, all you're doing is moving the transclusions, making the transclusion in the first place, now that, should probably be done by bot--71.247.243.173 13:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Especially considering all this that has to be done just to generate a header:

Seems like a bot would be better suited for repetitive, tedious, template subst'ing--71.247.243.173 14:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

text: *Ok, other issues, the header for August 21st was never added in the first place, so I'm skipping from the 20st to the 22nd--71.247.243.173 16:27, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Perfect, we also lost the 23rd--71.247.243.173 16:34, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

text: *Done Now who is going to do the other 5 desks?--71.247.243.173 17:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

text: *Of course, it didn't occur to me that the same template is also used for the monthly archives, so these changes may not stay--71.247.243.173 18:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Failing that, there's --71.247.243.173 18:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *And  for the old version--71.247.243.173 18:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archiving the desk

message: <noinclude>

</noinclude>
*date1: the date of the previous page (e.g. July 21 or June)
*date2: the date of the next page (e.g. July 23 or August)
*type: the name of the reference desk being archived (e.g. Science, Language, Computing, etc.)
*It's been reduced to only 3 variables--71.247.243.173 17:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Of course, it didn't occur to me that the same template is also used for the monthly archives, so these changes may not stay--71.247.243.173 18:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Failing that, there's --71.247.243.173 18:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *And  for the old version--71.247.243.173 18:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New template usage

message: Even after splitting, the RD pages are toooo long to download. Is there a way to see only one day and not all all seven days? Thank you. CG 08:17, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Now I've also done the Humanities‎ desk--71.247.243.173 12:48, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *And one usernameblock later, I've also done the CS desk--Vector71.247.243.173 14:01, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *And now Mathematics, that's 4 down, 2 to go, then the transclusions will be all up to date--VectorPotential71.247.243.173 14:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *oK, only 1 left, then someone really needs to start archiving old questions--VectorPotential71.247.243.173 14:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RD is tooo long 

message: Ok, so now that all of the desks are properly transcluded, someone really should start archiving the older questions, starting with the 19th. That someone isn't me, btw, since I just racked up about 300 edits over the course of 2 days catching up the transclusions--VectorPotential71.247.243.173 15:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Just a point, but who ever archived the questions from the 19th to the 23rd, didn't actually add them to the archive, they just removed them, which is deleting, not archiving--71.247.243.173 14:39, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I'm in the process of correcting the error now--71.247.243.173 14:51, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *and I'm done--71.247.243.173 20:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archiving 

message: Added the header, again.. someone else reeeeally needs to learn the entire process, otherwise this whole thing falls apart when I stop doing it--71.247.243.173 00:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did it before the bot, I'll start again.  --hydnjo talk 23:29, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK Ill help if you need it!--Light current 23:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  August 31 

message: Could we change the header to include a request for feedback from the original questioners? We answer many questions, but rarely hear anything back. We therefore dont know if were being helpful or not. Just a suggestion.--Light current 03:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean Check back for updates. A complete answer to your question may be developed over a period of up to seven days. To help yourself find this page again, make a bookmark (in some common browsers you can press Ctrl+D or ⌘+D to do so), or add this page to your watchlist if you have an account. ? I don't think we should ask people to give feedback, it already says that a thankyou would be nice.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  09:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feedback from questioners 

message: Yeah OK I notice youve been complaining about the lack of help here. But Im new-- I dont know how to do anythin yet! Whats involved?--Light current 22:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *If you really want to do something, how about adding date headers? We lost almost 5 days last week becuase people stopped adding the current date. Just make sure that at the end of every day, either you, or someone else, creates a currentdate header. For instance = August 31 =, and make sure it's after the last post of the previous day--71.247.243.173 22:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

text: *If you want to do more, the best way to learn is to study the archives, mostly the ones from the last 2 months--71.247.243.173 23:29, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Careful Lc, the pages are time-stamped UTC while Page history is your local time. Also, be sure to date header with the first question on the new date. I'll start doing it too. A few people looking in should help.  --hydnjo talk 23:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Worst case scenario it's off by an hour or so, compared to last week, that's nothing, we were missing several days in a row, and it took almost 2 days to sort out the date headers. If they're only off by an hour, we can always move them foward a post or two, not the end of the world--71.247.243.173 00:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RD Help 

message: I saw a question posted to the miscellaneous reference desk today that seemed intentionally inflammatory, a poorly-disguised troll attempting only to elicit responses. I went looking for reference desk policy regarding trolling, but I couldn't find a source.  Do we have a trolling policy for the reference desk? If not, where is the appropriate place to add one? dpotter 15:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I don't think there is an 'official' trolling policy on the RD - and I don't think there needs to be one, either. Best defence against trolls: don't feed 'em. Or if you're feeling vindictive, ridicule them. Although the first is better. (I've also heard of some editors deleting blatantly pointless and inflammatory questions - also an option, but one to be used with great caution, IMO). — QuantumEleven 16:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trolling policy in refdesk? 

message: ?? The one about ankle weights. I can't even find it in the edit history. Anchoress 19:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What happened to the 'dense material' thread? It's totally gone, and it was only a day or two old. 

message: *Even newer usage:
<noinclude></noinclude>
With the date used, being the date of the archive, the template does the math--VectorPotential71.247.243.173 02:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:Reference desk navigation]] 

message: #--Light current 14:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding Date Headers

message: #I did these for the rest of September.  On the plus side, my edit count is now over 10 thousand: (Here's my edit count.)  Do I get a cake ? StuRat 12:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding Template:Reference desk navigation<sup>lite</sup> to New Daily Archive pages

message: #
#
#
#
*There is also the matter of creating monthly archives, but that won't come up again until October, and since Template:Reference desk navigation no longer works for that, you'll have to use User:71-247-243-173/RDmonthly--VectorPotential71.247.243.173 12:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I'm not going to have internet access for several days, and can't guarantee that I'll have any after that, someone really needs to at least try to take over the transclusions/archives, because either way, I won't be here to do it--VectorPotential71.247.243.173 11:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Creating Monthly Archive Headers

message: Is there some sort of procedure to follow when you suspect that someone is using the reference desk not for homework, or trolling, or as a soapbox, but rather as some sort of sociology experiment?--VectorPotentialRD NEEDS A BOT (-: 21:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its difficult to detect this abuse. All we can do is answer questions as if theyd been asked in good faith>--Light current 22:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Any way, what sort of experiments do you think we are being subjected to?--Light current 22:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I believe VectorPotential is doing research to see how we'll respond to the prospect that we're being researched, but without providing any details to the form of the research.  Gosh, I'm already feeling all paranoid.  Oop.  Over it.  -- Fuzzyeric 05:02, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sociology experiment?

message: Could we possibly get a link (at the top) to the bottom of every page? That would be simple right?  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  11:03, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Won't the "End" key on your keyboard (right above the up arrow) do that already ? StuRat 11:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh wow, goodie! Stop hax0ring my computer to make it do amazing things like that, you're freaking me out!  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  13:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL. BTW, I've also hacked the "Home" key to go to the top of the page. :-) StuRat 13:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And I have made the space bar function just like Page Down.  Oh, and backspace is like clicking the Back button/arrow.  Anything else you need while Stu and I are in here?  --LarryMac 12:53, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Link to bottom