Talk:Leo the Lion (MGM)/Archive 1

message: By the way, did u know that when they used the modern MGM logo in 1957, they used the roar from the MGM logo from 1956?  Somehow, MGM recorded the lion roar from 1956 and used it on the new lion until 1982 when it used the original lion roar.  Also on the logo of "MGM Means Great Movies" for MGM Home Entertainment, there was another lion soundbite.  I guess that the modern lion's name is actually Leo.
*The fifth lion's name is actually Leo.  King Shadeed 15:33, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1957 MGM Lion 

message: I never knew that the 3-strip Technicolor lion Tanner was introduced in 1938! The first film to feature Tanner in the MGM ident was the musical Sweethearts. Gabrielkat 07:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  3-strip Technicolor lion 

message: Actually, they used the real lion roar for the modern MGM ident (with the fifth lion, the current one). In 1982, a new lion track was recorded; in my opinion, the original was better than the current "growl", it does not really sound like a lion at all.
RE: the MGM captures; I added them, and have yet to come across the shortlived fourth lion ident from 1957. I live in Britain, and so far, no films with this lion have been shown on the UK version of TCM. You can find the MGM/UA Entertainment Co. on any MGM film produced between 1982-1987, mainly James Bond films; I have a capture, but it is from a different website. I'll try to get permission to add it in the article. And the current lion - perhaps e-mailing MGM or Warner (who hold the pre-1986 MGM library via Turner) to ask what the name is will help, though I doubt anyone who works there today will know about a lion introduced on a logo over 40 years ago! LBM 17:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leo the Lion 

message: King Shadeed - do you mean that after Tanner, there were two different lions before the current one? I thought it was Tanner > the snarling lion > the current one we have today. Do you know if the "shortlived" lions are on the opening MGM ident for the film Julie (1956)? LBM 18:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MGM Roar - two lions? 

message: I've just added a reproduction of the first 1953 CinemaScope MGM ident featuring Tanner (in his last appearance). This will remain until I, or anyone else, can add a capture from a CinemaScope MGM film. Tell me what you think of it, please! LBM 20:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MGM Cinemascope ident 

message: According to some internet documents, Leo the Lion was supposed to be filmed standing regel, silent, and pround. On the day of the shooting, which was taking place in a warehouse down the street, a bank was being robbed by two immigrants. Their plan was to rob the bank and head for a usually empty warehouse down the street to change clothes and hide the money. Unfortunately, they ran in just when the MGM film crew were filming. Only Leo the Lion recognized the presence of the men, who were standing behind and slightly to the left of the film crew. He roared at them, then leaped off the pedestal he was on, mauling one of the terrified robbers. It was his way of protecting the film crew and trainer he had grown attached to from this unknown threat. It took the mauled man three days to die from his wounds. His partner, horrified and believing his friend was dead, ran back out the door into the street and was hit by a police car speeding on its way to the bank they had just robbed. He died instantly. Leo's roar was used instead of his silent pose only after the film crew, who believed the lion had saved them from the two desperate criminals, convinced the owner of MGM studios. The story about the lion's roar being based on the fight song of a university was fabricated to avoid scandal for the young film studio. This is how I heard it.
I've heard this too. Is it true?
72.226.87.148 03:37, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legend of Leo the Lion 

message: Do you mean the first lion, Slats, the second (Jackie) or third (Tanner)? I'm not entirely sure about that story, and I don't think it should go in the main article as it seems to be rumour. I have seen quite a long version of Jackie roaring, and I'm quite sure it's not him you're talking about (he growls once, then roars, before growling again and looks to the right of the screen; he then stops and stares back at the camera). Please provide links to where you found this information, please -- LBM 23:43, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably an urban legend. See this link. tregoweth 23:46, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Legend of Leo the Lion 

message: Thanks - over this month, I'll have the chance to view and record MGM films from 1956-57, so hopefully will be able to get some captures of the shortlived lions for the page. LBM 15:49, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: MGM Lion 

message: Hi there, I've added a screenshot of the MGM logo from Meet Me in Las Vegas, 1956. However, it is not a different lion in the loop, it is still Tanner. It seems that Tanner was kept through till 1957, when the "lion who snarled" made an entrance, so I'll change the information in the article accordingly. - LBM 19:23, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MGM 1956 CinemaScope screenshot 

message: Hi there, I've added a screenshot of the fourth lion (at last), and the logo makes interesting viewing when watching the actual version. The logo is taken from the start of The Opposite Sex (1956). Also added is the green MGM logo from North by Northwest. - LBM 19:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MGM 1957 fourth lion 

message: LBM, YOU DID IT DAWG!  That's the one I was talking about!  Now, we have to figure out what that lion's name is.  King Shadeed 18:11, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fourth MGM Lion 

message: Thanks! I have read that one lion, either the fourth lion or the current one, is called Jackie II. Maybe this one is? Perhaps we'll never find out.. The logo with the fourth lion looks very odd compared to Tanner, as when watching it, it looks slightly unnerved or scared of the movie cameras, judging by its expression!
How about trying to e-mail the studio for the names of the fourth and fifth lions? But on the other hand, they may not have any records for this anymore. Turner, maybe, or did he only get the library? LBM 22:18, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: LBM, it's great that you finally uploaded a picture of the 1956-1957 MGM lion, but we still need a picture of the 1924-1928 lion, Slats. One notable appearance of this lion was in the original 1925 version of Ben-Hur. Gabrielkat 22:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi there, it's going to be pretty difficult as the movies shown on the UK version of TCM rarely feature 1920s movies. They show them pretty sparsely; the only MGM ones they show are from about 1934 onwards. However, I'll try to see what I can do. - LBM 14:15, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And what I mean by my previous comment is that it's on the four-disc collector's edition DVD of Ben-Hur, which contains both
the 1959 and 1925 versions. The 1925 version is on disc three. Try to get a picture of Slats from that DVD. Gabrielkat 01:16, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's going to be difficult obtaining the DVD, but I'll try to do it. LBM 03:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did you obtain the four-disc DVD of Ben-Hur yet? If so, then upload a picture of Slats from that DVD!  Gabrielkat 19:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MGM 1957 lion 

message: I wonder what was the last movie that had the MGM logo in black & white before they started using them in color for good.  King Shadeed 17:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the last was indeed 1957's Jailhouse Rock, though it was used again in Columbia Pictures Annie (1982) - for some reason, Columbia did not use Jackie in the clip for Camille (a 1936 MGM film), but the B/W version used on Jailhouse Rock. LBM 22:03, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nooo!  I mean with the 1957 logo.  King Shadeed 14:38, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's what I mean too! The B/W 1957 logo was last used on Jailhouse Rock, and again in Annie - what I meant was, that the original clip of Camille had Jackie on. But for some reason, they put the B/W version of the current logo (1957) onto it. LBM 19:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  B+W MGM logo 

message: :Posted on User talk:LBM in reply to removal of cleanup tag. Posted here at request of LBM.
----
I added the cleanup tag because the article seems to be poorly ordered- there was information in the introduction that belongs further down. For example:
: "Tanner was the third MGM lion, used on all Technicolor films and MGM cartoons. This was the second longest serving lion, having being used for 18 years."
:* Surely "this" should be "he" or "Tanner"?
:* "Having being?"
The article is also not NPOV in places: MGM is described as "legendary", which, although perhaps true, clearly does not belong in an encyclopedic article.
A little further down:
: "Outside the Culver Hotel in Culver City, California (where the original MGM studios were located), a "comical" statue of Leo the Lion is placed."
:*Needs little explanation, generally doesn't read well.
The image captions could do with naming rather than numbering the lions, and I think the images need a little moving around: with them all down the right-hand column, there's an odd white space at the bottom at 1024x678, and I'd imagine an even bigger gap at 800x600.
It would have been sporting of you to leave the tag until discussing why it was placed, but that's no big deal: you're obviously a large contributor to the article, so I can see why you'd be upset about me adding the tag, but it does need cleanup, and Wikipedia is a community project. I'm willing to help clean it up, as it already has a very good basis for a fantastic article.
Hope this helps to explain the tag, which I feel should be re-added until all/most of these points are cleaned up.
EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 14:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup tag 

message: :Posted on User talk:EvocativeIntrigue regarding cleanup tag. Posted here.
----
Hello there, I started the article, which is probably why I seemed kind of rude. I will attempt to cleanup (and I hope that others will help) and once again, I apologize for removing the tag.
- LBM (talk) 15:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: More of this conversation is available here.
----
Looks like a good start- the pictures look much better in the newer positions! I'll try and join you later in editing. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 16:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Thank you for your replies, feel free to edit whenever you want. - LBM (talk) 23:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RE: Leo the Lion 

message: Ars gratia artis means "art for the sake of art" (that's the modern English equivalent, anyway)- should this be mentioned in the article? EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 13:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding the motto: some mention of Ars Gratia Artis is probably warranted. Maybe it should be mentioned in the opening lines? I'll add it there, but of course tell me if it needs moving.
- LBM (talk) 15:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, since 1924, so that is just around 82 years of MGM history we have here. LBM 22:16, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motto 

message: Okay, someone needs to pull a screenshot of Slats the Lion, as his image is desperately missing from the article. I don't care how you get it, so long as it's authenticated and accurate. We need it NOW! ROAR! Growl...ROAR!
* Yeah, we need an image of Slats really badly, from the four-disc collector's edition DVD of Ben-Hur, which contains both the 1959 (discs one and two) and 1925 (disc three) versions! Gabrielkat 20:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slats the Lion 

message: A screenshot of Slats was uploaded by Pawlis onto Imageshack, which he tried to show here. I hope he doesn't mind, but I've uploaded it in the main article so you can all see it. He really doesn't look much different than Jackie, his successor. I've also put the images in their original places; the gallery didn't really work - if you have any problems with it, I will revert it back. -- LBM 21:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slats 

message: Jackie II???  Where did that name come from and who found out the name?  King Shadeed 1:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: An anonymous member added the name, though I seem to agree with it, as there are many websites that state there was an MGM lion named Jackie II. However, I don't know whether to delete it for the time being. LBM 16:46, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jackie II? 

message: Since we have Tanner on the 1953 logo, we need an image of Jackie on the 1953 logo.  King Shadeed 11:41, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1953 Logo 

message: MGM animation returned in 1960 with new shorts by Gene Deitch from 1960-1962.  Jones took over in 1963.  King Shadeed 00:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but the Gene Deitch shorts contained the logo featuring the lion of the time (the one in use today, the fifth lion). In 1963, Jones opted to use Tanner rather than the current lion, hence why it is noteworthy for the article. LBM 22:26, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tom & Jerry shorts 

message: I remember reading an article from some Columbia University alumni publication that claimed that the university had some ties to the early movie studios. One of the claims was that the MGM lion was a reference to the Columbia mascot. Anybody else run across this? Dyl 15:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Columbia University tie-in? 

message: Excuse me, but shouldn't the MGM logo have the byline "A Division of Columbia TriStar Pictures, A Sony Pictures Entertainment Company" instead of the MGM website? And should the company's name be replaced by "MGM/UA Entertainment Co." when MGM and UA merge again? —Preceding unsigned comment added by  84.69.157.28 (talk • contribs) 
:I presume that you have been adding various bits of incorrect information to the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer article. There is absolutely no evidence that MGM and United Artists will merge. Why are you still under the impression that MGM/UA stills exists? --LBM | TALK TO ME 21:53, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: MGM should only have the byline "a SONY PICTURES ENTERTAINMENT company".  United Artists and Motion Picture Corporation of America as well.  And no, the name MGM/UA Entertainment Co. will not come back.  In 1992, United Artists became a subsidiary of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Inc. when MGM/UA Communications Co. reverted back to MGM.  In 1997, United Artists was referred to as "An MGM Company".  King Shadeed 13:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't forget: MGM already dropped SPE as TV and domestic home entertainment distributor. MGM already re-launched its TV unit and began distrubuting movies on DVD though the News Corporation-owned 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment. Of course Sony will continue to distribute MGM pictures domestically, until MGM decides to distribute those films domestically, while 20th continues to distribute those films globally. By the way, I don't think there's a byline for SPE at all. Sony will also continue to co-own 20% of MGM. Don-Don 20:09, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We been knew that!  But, what we're saying is, for MGM's future to use the SPE byline when things get back to normal for SPE and MGM.  MGM to use the SPE byline for MGM Pictures and MGM Television and also SPE to regain full access of the whole entire MGM film library, including those by Turner!  See what I'm saying?  King Shadeed 17:48, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait a sec... if Turner Entertainment had not gained ownership to the MGM film library pre-1986, do you think that SPE would have produced the luxury DVD sets and releases that Warner Home Video have done? I certainly don't think so! --LBM | TALK TO ME 21:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

text: If this keeps up, Sony and SPE won't have any ownership of any MGM properties, including the television library!  SPE better do something!  I really counted for Sony Corp. and SPE to really own the whole entire company and library of MGM, not letting other companies to own this or that!  King Shadeed 17:04, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leo the Sony Lion 

message: I remember watching Ghost Files of YuYu Hakusho years ago on Cartoon Network, I can't remember that monster's name, but it said KOENMA on the bottom of the MGM-like logo after Koenma was acting like the Torch Lady from Columbia Pictures.  Anyone familiar with this?  King Shadeed 15:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another MGM Spoof 

message: Austin's scary logo machine (talk) has uploaded a screen capture of the cartoon version of Jackie.
Austin's logo club 15:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like that one!  When I first saw him on TCM, Jackie doesn't look mean!  King Shadeed 14:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MGM ''Captain and The Kids'' lion 

message: Did Jackie die? To be replaced with Tanner in 1938?  Austin's scary logo club 08:50, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Who knows? Tanner was introduced for Technicolor films, but Jackie remained for black and white films. --LBM | TALK TO ME 09:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean Tanner or Jackie?  Austin's scary logo club 14:04, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Read my response properly - Jackie was not replaced, he remained for all black and white films until 1957. --LBM | TALK TO ME 13:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Death of ''Jackie'' 

message: We need the clean version of Jackie (cartoon version) and the colorized version of Jackie in the MGM logo.  Austin's logo club! 17:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Cartoon and Colorized Versions of ''Jackie'' 

message: The article is all over the place when you put any of the logos on the left side. I think it should be all on the right, or maybe even just take the pictures and link it to a gallery. CanbekEsen 21:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture Alignment

message: The article seems to be slightly confused on the number of lions used (in terms of animals and/or logos).
The first lion is slats, this seems clear. Then for 2 strip technicolour variations "two different lions" were used. Right after this piece there is the quote "Jackie was the second lion". So were the two 2-colour lions different animals - or 2 versions of slats/jakie or some combination of the two. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Superfine (talk • contribs) .
:*I'll try to correct it. --LBM | TALK TO ME 13:12, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Done. --LBM | TALK TO ME 00:28, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lion order 

message: If the 1939 Technicolor film "Gone with the Wind" had an MGM logo before the Selznick International Pictures logo, which lion would be used in said logo? Gabrielkat 14:23, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I presume Tanner; he was introduced the previous year. --LBM | TALK TO ME 00:28, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I've had a look at "Gone with the Wind" and it doesn't use the lion logo - instead it just has the words Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and the other studio name etc. --Superfine 14:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A question... 

message: The 2-trip colour second lion in the article isn't from Dancing Lady - Its from Roast Beef and Movies.
Dancing Lady uses Jakie as its a black and white film - you'll see the screenshot from Dancing Lady on my previous post.
Roast Beef and Movies is a short 2-strip colour film that was probably shown in the cinemas before the main feature. The Clark Gable Signature Collection contains a selection of shorts, cartoons and documentaries that would have been shown in the same year as the films (in the case of the documentaries they revolve round a similar subject). Roast Beef and Movies doesn't have any real connection with Dancing Lady other than being a special feature on the DVD as far as I can tell. --Superfine 10:54, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoops... it has been changed. --LBM | TALK TO ME 19:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  2 strip technicolor lion 

message: Hey guys,
Being somewhat of an expert on logos, I can tell you that I, for one, have only seen Slats, the first lion of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, on only one movie: He Who Gets Slapped, the first Metro-Goldwyn/MGM film. 
Jackie, however, appeared on many many more pre-1928 films than just those three. I've seen Jackie on The Unknown (1925) and The Unholy Three (1925) (both films starring Lon Chaney). I am pretty sure it also appeared on King Vidor's film The Big Parade (1925) as well.
If anybody can name any other pre-1928 Jackie sightings, that'd be great. --TServo2049 16:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slats, Jackie, and the silent era. 

message: Hello,
As a logo expert of sorts, I can say that Tanner, the 3-strip Technicolor MGM lion, debuted not in 1938, but 1934. He appeared on the MGM color short subject "Star Night at the Cocoanut Grove," in which he roared not twice, but FOUR TIMES. I have this on tape, but not with me; rest assured, it's real, I'm not lying.--TServo2049 16:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Article has been amended. --LBM | TALK TO ME 23:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tanner debuted in 1934. 

message: Hey, Mac.
Did you think that the first 2-strip Technicolor lion is from "Happy Harmonies"
and the second 2-strip Technicolor lion is from "Roast Beef & Movies" ?
WELL, YOU'RE WRONG! It was the SAME lion, you fool!!!
And if you don't believe me, check this out between 3:17 and 3:27 in this video from [ YouTube]--Alexelliottwelch 17:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Article has been amended. --LBM | TALK TO ME 23:08, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it the same lion as before? 

message: In this Youtube Video of a trailer for a Marx Brothers movie (dated around the 30's, I think), this lion looks different. He definetly doesn't look like Jackie, and though he has similar markings to Tanner he looks smaller, and sounds very different. Doesn't look at all like the 2-strip lion, either.
Perhaps this is a lion that was only used for trailers, or for a very short time? Or maybe it's lost footage of Tanner's "four times" roar an above poster mentioned? I'm thinking its different, older footage of a young Tanner (or a relative of his) because the markings are very similar. 
Clarification would be great if anyone recognizes this Leo.  It goes by very fast, so here is a picture link for closer study: 
[]
Inkedwell 20:20, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it may indeed be Tanner, but as you can see the ears of the lion jut out more than Tanner. It could be footage of Slats (the first MGM lion, in use from 1924 to around 1928). Perhaps it is a "lost lion"; if someone could try to help by finding out if it was actually used on an MGM film? --LBM | TALK TO ME 23:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  (roughly) 1935 MGM Trailer Lion? Or perhaps lost footage of Tanner? 

message: Can anyone get the logo of Metro-Goldwyn Pictures?  King Shadeed 16:34, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metro-Goldwyn logo 

message: According to several internet sources, the Happy Harmonies\Roast Beef and Movie's MGM Lion name is Coffee. I'm not sure if this is true, but if it is, it should be put into the article.
69.121.51.103 03:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Roast Beef and Movies" Lion's name Coffee?