Talk:Hōkūleʻa

message: Kama Hele is very very important and interesting about Hokule'a. Hokule'a had been towed from Okinawa to Muroto(Kochi prefecture) by Kama Hele. Moreover, Nainoa stressed about the importance of escorting the  boat  everywhere, everytime(And he speaks fromlong experience). He said again and again that without Kama Hele, Hokule'a can't go anywhere. You can read about how he and PVS thinks about importance of an escort boat at Ben Finney's "Sailing in the wake of Ancestors" (University of Hawaii Press). Don't you know that Kama Hele had designed only for Hokule'a by Alex Jakubenko? Alex is the captain of Ishka, the escort boat of Hokule'a for 1980 Tahiti voyage (see Will Kyselka's "An Ocean in Mind",University of Hawaii Press ). Alex felt it's very important to take a modern escort boat along with Hokule'a.  Japanese people also felt that Kama Hele is the integral part of the canoe and volunteered to sail it back to Hawai'i in July-August 2007. Anyway, you should  talk with Nainoa and ask him "Is Kama Hele important or interesting in Polynesian Voyaging and Hokule'a?". I can imagine that he replies immediately that "Yes! Kama Hele is very important for Hokule'a". --Uniontour (talk) 16:16, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Adding references. Stuart Holmes Coleman "Eddie Would Go: The Story of Eddie Aikau, Hawaiian Hero "(Bess Press, 2002), Ben Finney et al "Voyage of rediscovery"(University of California Press, 1994). Have you read them? If you read them, You can understand why escoat boat is very important for Hokule'a. --Uniontour (talk) 16:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kama Hele

message: In reading through the WikiProject Hawaii - Manual of Style, I noticed User:Agent_X's post (Titled: LSQUO, ‘, works better than , ʻ ).  In that post, he demonstrates italicized variations of this diacritic, but I was unable to link to it, so, to recap, the two symbols can be rendered using:
*   
::(New editors - the expression here has been bookended with opening (  ) and closing (  ) "nowiki" tags for demonstration, so content inside the braces does not get wiki-rendered; instead the keystrokes needed to duplicate it are shown - click "edit this page" to see for yourself)
:which wiki-renders as inside these parentheses: (  ).
or
* lsquo
::(implied leading " & " and trailing " ; " are not shown here; when these characters bookend that expression),
:this displays as inside the following parentheses: ( ‘ )   (Looks like a speck of dust).
In this Hokulea article, I applied User:Agent_X's thesis.  In italicized type (as for boats' names), I used:
:*" lsquo " ( ‘ ) in place of "  " (  ),
::as in Hokule‘a compared to Hokulea, (macrons over "o" and "u" not shown to emphasize the okina diacritic mark)
but for text not italicized, I used the contrary:
:*"  " or (  ), in place of " lsquo " or ( ‘ ),
::as in: Hokulea, compared to Hokule‘a,
I posted this to explain what appears to be inconsistent use of one or the other in this article.  Maybe this is too much trouble?  I imagine that if someone finds this inconsistency intolerable, he (or she) will change it.
Aloha.  Newportm (talk) 08:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  <nowiki>{{okina}}</nowiki> versus lsquo in this Hokule{{okina}}a article 

message: This note was posted on my talk page:
I have removed t[w]o red links from the see also section. Per WP:SEEALSO, re[d] links should not be included in the see also section, only blue links should be included. For details, see WP:SEEALSO. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 03:44, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red links in "See Also" section 

message: Good article checklist. Viriditas (talk) 00:39, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been otherwise occupied but found some time to share on this.  On my Sandbox page, I have reshaped the lead and have moved dimensional detail down into the construction and purpose section.  Steps in the right direction? Newportm (talk) 02:46, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes.  And I just noticed that the images section can be eliminated by merging all of them into the body of the article. I'm categorizing the images at Commons right now. Viriditas (talk) 14:27, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA checklist 

message: Do we really need a Wiktionary link to "voyage"?  I would rather see it inline. Viriditas (talk) 14:16, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea.  It doesn't need the break-out box link.  I looked up how to make the Wiktionary definition of "voyage" an inline link, since the Wikipedia "voyage" dab page didn't define the term.  I haven't been able to spend that much time on this article lately.  However, while a couple of editors have made good faith edits changing crew list names, references were not supplied, so I have made a couple reversions with edit summaries to explain the reason for the reversions. Newportm (talk) 05:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we need to start working on rewriting the lead per your comments on your talk page.  It would be a good idea to add the planned three-year circumnavigation to the end of the lead as well. Viriditas (talk) 08:20, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiktionary 

message: Article has been tagged for cleanup.  I would be happy to help, but I don't want to step on Newportm's toes, so I'm open to discussion. Viriditas (talk) 06:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Viriditas, your graciousness and diplomacy are exemplary.  I have seen your fine ideas for this article and I support your vision for it; please do not feel as though you will be stepping on my toes--or keyboard!  I made some efforts on revamping this, still in my Sandbox, which you are welcome to if you wish.  The copy that is in the November Project Hawaii newsletter is also excellent.  I have simply not had time to carry this to the next level, but I am game to help you however I can.  Aloha nui loa.  Newportm (talk) 00:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: An IP editor who claims to have sailed on Hokule'a made a recent edit (diff) to crew list section of USA leg.  Since the editor included what appears to be that editor's email address in the edit summary, I assume good faith.  I have written that person to advice of confict of interest and verifiability issues.  I asked the editor to follow up with a printed citation for the edit since I can't find the info on the web.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 18:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  IP editor 

message: This article is currently quite long, over 100KB. WP:Article size advises that it be split into smaller articles, to make it easier to read and edit. Are there any possible sub-articles that could be spun out of this one per WP:Summary style? List of Hokulea voyages, perhaps? Robofish (talk) 22:37, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article size 

message: I propose we revisit this. After all, the Māori articles have all been using the tohutō = macron = kahakō for years now without any problem. Kahuroa (talk) 19:07, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that we could put the Okina template into the title. By the way the Special Characters drop-box in the editing window has a diacritic ‘ (under symbols). It looks like this: Hawai‘i, Hawai‘i. It's there as part of the Wikimedia interface I guess there would be no compatibility issues - Māori doesn't use the okina in the standard dialect so I am not an expert on this though. As I said, the New Zealand Wikiproject uses the macron all over the place, and in article titles too. It's not an issue at all for us - no one ever complains they can't see them AFAIK.  Kahuroa (talk) 21:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: One thing keeps bothering me - why does this article use the kahakō (Hōkūle`a) when the photograph of the canoe itself (:File:Hokulea02.jpg) has it spelt Hokule`a? Kahuroa (talk) 22:30, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Okay. This is a good-faith question. What is our source for inserting them then? At the moment it seems to be pronunciation advice by Finney Kahuroa (talk) 01:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Sure, but my question is not about how the constituent words of the canoe's name are pronounced or written in the dictionary, but about the name of the canoe itself. If it's registered, how was it spelt?  Kahuroa (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: See this.  The vessel is named after the star Arcturus, per the article.  Known as the "Star of Gladness" because it helped navigators find Hawaii.  –Newportm (talk • contribs) 18:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think you understand what I am asking. Again, you are pointing me to a dictionary entry - I am not doubting that the word in the Hawaiian language has long vowels that are marked with the kahakō. But I would have thought that it is not the place of Wikipedia to use a dictionary to work out what diacritics should go into names. What Wikipedia should use is the spelling used  when the canoe was registered, surely, or perhaps the spelling the owners of the vessel use in citable sources Kahuroa (talk) 21:05, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Finney, the Hawaiian dictionary, this professionally typeset publication, even the Polynesian Voyaging Society archives (on occasion) go to the trouble to use the full diacritics with kohakō and okina.  But most of the documentation is from typewriter days.  Today there are people in college who have never seen a typewriter except perhaps in a movie.  The user was limited to the characters on the typewriter, which generally did not have had the diacritics.  So they winged it.  Even in early typewritten documents from Kamehameha Schools, you see the apostrophe used in place of the okina when they spell the word Hawai'i.  Only Finney went to the trouble to manually insert diacritics onto some of his typewritten documents.  The PVS archives are a fascinating resource for anyone who wants to dig in.  This cavalier attitude about diacritics appears true for newspapers too in the days before their art was 100% digitally produced.  Many early news stories used an apostrophe in place of the okina in reports about Hōkūle‘a or Hawaii.  That doesn't make them correct.  Surely we can acknowledge that there should be an okina in the name Hawai‘iloa but her USCG document shows it as HAWAI'I LOA (with apostrophe).  They typically use all caps for boat names...block letters were (maybe still are technically) required on the vessel itself by USCG regs so they're as legible as possible.  Furthermore, Dr. Finney is eminently citable.  He was a founder of the PVS, it was partly his vision to build the boat, he's published numerous books, scholar and professor, and he went to the trouble to manually insert diacritcs into typwritten documents.  He cared enough to take the time.  The problem on Wikipedia is browser limitations (the okina looks messed up even if the kohakō does not), so we use the hat note. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 23:23, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I would be happy to test this out on multiple browsers and platforms and leave a note on the Hawaii project talk page when I'm done.  Give me a few days. Viriditas (talk) 23:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: @Newportm - thanks, that's more what I was asking. I speak Māori by the way, which also uses the macrons - it's very close to Hawaiian, quite often you just change a few of the consonants and hey presto, instant Hawaiian. And the macrons tend to happen in the same places as the kahakō. So I am aware of the issues regarding the diacritics, pretty much the same happens here in New Zealand. @Viriditas, that would be great. Kahuroa (talk) 00:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I refer to the wrong document above.  The USCG Hawai‘iloa document that I linked to above (that is the ship's official government registration) uses an apostrophe where the okina belongs, which we see all the time.  It was her FCC registration for her ship's radio that used no diacritics whatsover.  I can imagine someone sitting at a computer with a black monitor and green characters typing the data in for the license muttering to self, why did they put an apostrophe in the name, that must be a typo.  Names don't have apostrophes in the middle.  I'll fix it.  There are varying levels of consciousness about Hawaiian language and it's safe to assume that some people don't understand lack of diacritics can change the meaning of a word. –Newportm (talk • contribs) 03:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Time to revisit using kahakō in title??

message: Perhaps that a link can be included to Bonno Louis' catamaran, another replica of a traditional polynesian catamaran (allot smaller though). It was mentioned in "Lost Continent of the Pacific" (NGC docu)
91.182.148.62 (talk) 06:52, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Bonno Louis' catamaran

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: I was in Hawaii during the first sailing attempt and the second “successful” attempt. Reality has morphed into romance. The first attempt was poorly times and the ocean double hull sailing canoe floundered between Oahu and Maui. All trained marine safety officials tell people to stay with the boat if it is still floating. That is not what happened. Unfortunately a well known surfer believed he could paddle against the strong ocean currents and find land and then alert people of the urgent need for rescue. The other reality vs romance is the first time the double hull sailing canoe successfully made the journey, the crew mutinied. Upon arrival the captain (chief navigator?) said this was the worst crew he ever sailed with. Reality is so much harder to embrace than romance. 2601:582:8500:1060:0:0:0:B9DC (talk) 14:54, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your perspective, but we cannot add it to the article unless you provide verification from a reliable source. Peaceray (talk) 15:13, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reality vs Romance