Talk:Maasai people

message: "A Y chromosome study by Wood et al. (2005) tested various Sub-Saharan populations, including 26 Maasai males from Kenya, for paternal lineages. The authors observed haplogroup E1b1b in 50% of the studied Maasai,[27] which is indicative of substantial gene flow from more northerly Cushitic males, who possess the haplogroup at high frequencies.[28] The second most frequent paternal lineage among the Maasai was Haplogroup A3b2, which is commonly found in Nilotic populations, such as the Alur;[27][29] it was observed in 27% of Maasai males. The third most frequently observed paternal DNA marker in the Maasai was haplogroup E-V38 (E-P1), which is very common in the Sub-Saharan region; it was found in 12% of the Maasai samples. Haplogroup B-M60 was also observed in 8% of the studied Maasai,[27] which is also found in 30% (16/53) of Southern Sudanese Nilotes.[29]". So there is mention of haplogroups: E1b1b, A3b2, E-V38/E-P1, B-M60. So is this E-V38/E-P1 the same as E1b1a? It isn't clear from the text at all. 83.84.100.133 (talk) 23:12, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Mixing Nomiclatures

message: These statements appear in the "Culture" section in the order shown here:
"The Maasai people stood against slavery and lived alongside most wild animals with an aversion to eating game and birds. Maasai land now has East Africa's finest game areas. Maasai society never condoned traffic of human beings, and outsiders looking for people to enslave avoided the Maasai.[21]"
"Though the Maasai people stood against slavery and the traffic of humans beings, they were able to conquer such large areas of land by displacing the people who had previously lived in the area. And those who were looking for people to enslave avoided the Maasai because the Maasai weren't too friendly."
It seems to me that the the first is a little bit too utopian, while the second one is a slightly snarky response to the first. Consider merging or re-phrasing the whole thing.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.165.24 (talk) 12:24, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Point, Counterpoint?

message: I removed the following:
Contrary to popular belief, the language is Maasai and the people are Maa, not the other way round.
I'm not sure what is meant by this, but the people are certainly referred to as "Maasai".  — Matt 17:43, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Maa vs Maasai

message: The following paragraph was appended to the bottom of the article. I've pulled it out because it seems inherently confused and therefore can only cause confusion in the article.
:According to Fr. Frans Mol, author "Maasai: Language & Culture Dictionary (Diocese of Meru, Kolbe Press Kenya) the spelling for the Maa (The language of the Maasai) word for warrior in the singular would be "ol - murrani" and in the plural would be "il - murran". The "ol" and "il" are Maa prefixes corresponding to the articles "a" or " the". Moron seems to be a phonetic spelling of the plural, and an unfortunate one. The common spelling is "moran" as it appears in writing in Kenya. Mol admits in his preface that the spelling of the language has not been officially determined.
I don't have the time to check this statements, but 'Maasai/Masai' is the most common term anyway. — mark ✎ 18:42, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it's pretty confusing. I think it was discussing the Maasai term for "warrior" (moran(i)) rather than a term for the Maasai themselves, but regardless, I don't really think the problems of transliteration for a single Maasai word is of sufficient importance to earn a paragraph in the article.  — Matt Crypto 20:00, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. — mark ✎ 20:15, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Pulled out pending verification

message: I was oce told that Ngai was the only Maasai god but have been unable to verify the statement. 207.99.90.253 15:32, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This essay agrees with what you were told: "To the Maasai there is only one God (Ngai)."  — Matt Crypto 15:35, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ngai

message: A Maasai flag might look more like the logo here that the current FOTW pic. -- Himasaram 22:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed Maasai Flag until proper citation of its source is offered. Shadychiri (talk) 20:31, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Maasai flag

message: thumb|200px|Maasai Farmers
# They are traditionally pastoralists, but I visited Maasai farmers just last month. The current Tanzanian Prime Minister is a Maasi. But I'm sure that he isn't a pastoralist either.
# Female Circumcision is illegal in both Kenya and Tanzania. It may still be practiced in isolated traditionalist groups, but mostly has been abandoned by the Maasai.
# The Maasai are integrated into the larger economy. They sell livestock for cash to buy foodstuffs and cloth. You'll see them walking to town or riding bicycles.
# They are of normal height and of slight build.
# Bantu is a tribal language group, not a racial group. The Maasai are not Bantu. Their history and origins are obscure.
--DJay 15:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm largely ignorant about the above, but this article currently has very few references. If you can correct the article citing reliable sources, that would be ideal. One thought is that we should distinguish between traditional Maasai culture, and the lives of a typical modern Maasai.  — Matt Crypto 16:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

text: A google search for "oporor maasai" yields very few hits. Oporor is not listed in the darkwing.uoregon.edu Maa dictionary. If oporor is "the core value of their culture", it appears to be a very well kept secret. Steve Pastor 16:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Maasai are a bit more complicated than this article leads you to believe.

message: Aren't the Maasai warriors famous for their extraordinary jumping dance ceremonies?  — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.62.212.69 (talk) 11:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What about the jumping dance?

message: Recently, a paragraph on 'the commercial aspect' was added:
:Unlike many other tribes, the Maasai are very warm and welcoming to travellers and visitors. For a fee of approximately $15 per person, you will get a guided tour of the Boma, which will nearly always be given by the camp leader. The camp leader will almost certainly speak very good English. There will be traditional dancing to start with, and after the tour of the buildings and school etc, you will be invited to buy some of the products they make themselves, including bracelets, jewellery, shields, clubs, pendants etc.
:If you do purchase, you must bargain; it is expected and would be met with surprise if you offer the asking price. A good rule of thumb when bargaining, not necessarily with Maasai but with anyone in the country is to offer half of what they are asking, and work towards a happy medium. Again you must not feel bad about bargaining; it is simply part of their culture, and most importantly, they expect you to bargain, and adjust their prices accordingly, so that there is a margin that can be haggled away.
This is more in place at WikiTravel. And the 'unlike many other tribes' is quite a platitude. — mark ✎ 12:02, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recently added content

message: the infobox says their religion is "Christianity", but the text states "The laibon or spiritual leader acts as the liason between the Maasai and their one god, "Enkai" ". Additionally the page Masai mythology is written in the present tense, suggesting the native religion is still practiced. So are the Maasai still Pagan/Animist, or are they Christian? Maybe a mixture? --Krsont 14:15, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: after some digging in the history, I've discovered it originally read "Animist", then "Monotheist", then was changed to "Christianity". Presumably whoever changed it to "Monotheist" wanted to make clear that the Maasai worship a one God rather than the polytheism that is implied by "animist", and then another editor mistakenly thought this referred to Christianity. I'm going to change it to "monotheist animist" as this seems to be the most correct. --Krsont 14:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't presume--the Masai have converted to Christianity in communities, not as individuals. One of the leading experts on the Masai was Father Vincent Donovan (see Christianity Rediscovered) who is the 1970s and 1980s converted many whole communities based on Masai culture and values, not on remaking them in a western image or "Western church." They also weren't animists--God to them was distant, remote, and not a part of this earth, but a sky dweller who looked with favor only on the Masai--enabling them to keep their culture.--131.238.92.62 11:46, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: religion?

message: As best as I can determine, boma is a swahili word meaning variously: stable (for cattle), fort, fortress, mound, pile of earth, pile of stones, government administrative office, castle,  framework (of a house)
[] Much of what is covered in this section is covered under the culture section. I have edited appropriately. Steve Pastor 21:36, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is definitively nonsese to call Maasai houses "boma". This is tourist Swahili, maybe from colonial British Swahili usage. Maasai have their own language. Boma in Swahili is a fortified place, can be used for a cattle fencing (to protect against theft and lions, hyenas at night), and has been used for administrative buildings because in the early times of conquest colonial staff built themselves fortified buildings.  Kipala (talk) 21:22, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Boma

message: What's this tidbit about the Maasai being descended from Roman soldiers? That sounds like complete garbage.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.136.64 (talk) 22:58, August 24, 2007 (UTC) 
::I agree.Shadychiri (talk) 20:32, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Romans? 

message: I am tagging Maasai with a proposal to Mergefrom Maasai Music and Culture because:
* it partly duplicates the sections Culture, Body modification and Clothing
* it contains more information on the various tribes
* it contains section Music that is mising from this Maasai article
Maasai Music and Culture was written by just one editor and has an empty talk page and so moving the content in accordance with the GFDL should be straightforward. However, while it has sources and external links, none of the sentences are referenced and this needs to be done during any merge.
Responses? -Wikianon 14:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like a fair amount of work would be required. It seems well written, but some material is bascially the same as in Maasai, and, as you point out, there are no internal references. I've seen a list of regional groups, but haven't found it again. The list in Culture may be correct, but there is no ref. So, merge, but give the referenced material in Maasai preference, I'd say. If you are up to it, I'd say go ahead. Hope you don't mind someone looking over your shoulder. Steve Pastor 22:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The Zulu article looks like a good model to follow. Steve Pastor (talk) 23:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I have now moved all text that hasn't been properly referenced from the Culture article, along with external links and sources. I will be nominating the culture article for deletion. Steve Pastor (talk) 19:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: See this site for further justification of the undo of recent edit. I would put it int the article itself, but it seems like a Maasai site should be a good enough reference as it is. This one is from an Kiswahili lexicon site.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve Pastor (talk • contribs) 15:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: unga wa manhindi

message: There was no stated reason for this edit, and it wasn't mine, but I agree with it and would have done it eventually. This is based on several things that Wikipedia is not: a blog, a news site, etc etc. Events, people, etc, most also be "notable". Steve Pastor 18:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: regarding The Maasai in Ruvu, Tanzania undo

message: The language spoken by the Turkana is "Turkana." It is similar to the Maasai language and is considered to be Nilotic in origin (from the Nile region). http://www.ejoka.com/culture
The language of the Turkana, an Eastern Nilotic language - Wikipedia
Turkana language     From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Turkana 
Language family: Nilo-Saharan - Eastern Sudanic -   Eastern Nilotic -   Lotuxo-Teso - Teso-Turkana -      Turkana -       Turkana 
It is one of the Eastern Nilotic languages, and is closely related to Karamojong, Jie and Teso of Uganda, to Toposa spoken in the extreme southeast of Sudan, and to Nyangatom in the Sudan/Ethiopia Omo valley borderland; these languages together form the cluster of Teso-Turkana languages. 
Language: Turkana (Nilo-Saharan, Eastern Sudanic, Nilotic, Eastern, Teso-Turkana). Similar to Karamajong and Teso. Related to Toposa. 
See Figure 2 and discussion at this url.
There is nothing in the Kalenjin article to indicate that Maa is most closely related to Kalenjin.
For all of the above reasons, I am deleting this phrase.Steve Pastor 19:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: lingustically most related to

message: Since very few of use speak or read Finnish, how is that supposed to work? Steve Pastor (talk) 21:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Finnish?

message: :This is begin copied here so it won't be lost. I will be nominating the other article for deletion.
The Maasai diet comprises primarily of meat and milk, however it is forbidden to mix the two. The Maasai create a drink made from milk and blood which is created by puncturing the loose flesh on the cow's neck with an arrow. The wound is closed after the correct amount of blood is obtained. This monthly operation does not have hazardous effects on the cow. A variety of corn, sorghum, and other grains are also incorporated into the Maasai lifestyle. The Maasai will not eat wild animals because it is seen as barbaric, and they also choose not to farm.
:red is a special color to them because the tribe traditionally created the color for their shields by mixing the clay with the red sap of the solanum campylae fruit or cattle blood. 
The men color their hair red with clay and red ochre which is a pigment found in natural form in volcanic regions.
Morani. They are not allowed to travel or eat alone in hope to teach them to work as a group. These warriors are recognized by their painted faces as well as their headdresses which are made out of feathers and wood. In order to increase their braveness the warriors drink a special narcotic made from the bark of the thorny olkiloriti tree. Within the Morani are two groups, seniors and juniors. Junior warriors are called Ilkiliyani. They are recognized by the handles on their wooden handled spears and by their short hair. Their hair is short because warriors will have their heads ceremoniously shaved following the circumcision ceremony into manhood. Following the ceremony the warriors let their hair grow long. Many hours are spent by warriors braiding each others’ hair. The long hair style is designated only for warriors in the tribe. Senior warriors are called Ilingeetiani. They are recognized by their ebony handled spears and long braided hair.Warriors that spear a lion early in their training are the most respected. They then wear the lion’s mane as a head piece in some ceremonies to exhibit their bravery.
:Everyone involved has a part that has allowance for ornamentation. Members of the group may raise the pitch of their voices based on the height of the jump. 
Young men cover their bodies in ocher to enhance their appearance. Also warriors spend ample time completing ornate hairstyles. Young men can also be seen scaring their bodies with heated spears in order to show bravery. Beadwork is often important in Maasai body ornamentation. Complex bead patterns cover discs that hang around their necks. The patterns may be used to determine an age set or hierarchy in the tribe. Typically woman and young girls partake in the beadwork.
:External links 
1. BlueGecko.org 
2. Laleyio.com  
3. Art and Life in Africa Online 
:Sources
1.  Craats, Rennay, Maasai.  New York: Weigl Publishers, 2005.
2.  Diary of a Maasai Village.  Director, Melissa Llewelyn-Davies; series producers, Chris Curling, Melissa Llewelyn-Davies.  Videocassette. British Broadcasting Company, 1984.
3.  Finke, Jens.  Maasai – Music and Dance.  Tradition Music and Cultures of Kenya, 2003. BlueGecko.org. 23 Jan 2007 
4.  Galaty, John.  Being "Maasai"; Being "People-of-Cattle": Ethnic Shifters in East Africa.  American Ethnologist.  Feb 1982:  pp 1-20.  23 abstract and page 1 only, January 2007
5.  Groom, Debra.  Maasai Make Tully School Aid Effort Come Alive; Kenyans Highlight Their Culture and Problems Their Community Face.  The Post Standard.  Nov 2, 2006: Pg. 13.  23 January 2007
6.  Hodgson, Dorothy.  Once Intrepid Warriors: Gender, Ethnicity, and the Cultural Politics of Maasai development.  Bloomington:  Indiana University Press, 2001.
7.  Johnson, Hans.  Culture. Copyright 2004. Laleylio.com. 23 January 2007 
8.  “Maasai Informantion.”  Art and Life in Africa Online.  November 3, 1998.  March 27, 2007 
9.  Spencer, Paul.  The Maasai of Matapato: a study of rituals of rebellion.  Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1988. 
Steve Pastor (talk) 19:34, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kraal, krall, does not appear to be a Maa word. It shows up repeatedly in the definitions of other words in the animal husbandry section at this Maa dictionary site  Steve Pastor (talk) 19:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Material from [[Maasai Music and Culture]] not yet in this one, sort of

message: I have checked the Maasai music and culture article for information that could be merged into Maasai or put here. 
See this revision in case anyone wants to merge more text to the main article as I am too lazy to do it all now. I have just changed it to a redirect to Maasai's culture section.
Most of it was already in the main article in one form or another, except for the following:
* dwellings called krall - but sources define it as the inner enclosure for the livestock
This is incorrect/correct. See refs in article. But still no direct mention of krall as being for livstock currently in article. Steve Pastor (talk) 22:08, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kraal, krall, does not appear to be a Maa word. It shows up repeatedly in the definitions of other words in the animal husbandry section at this Maa dictionary site  Steve Pastor (talk) 19:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  to be merged when sources found? 

message: Young men cover their bodies in ocher to enhance their appearance. Also warriors spend ample time completing ornate hairstyles. Young men can also be seen scaring their bodies with heated spears in order to show bravery. Beadwork is often important in Maasai body ornamentation. Complex bead patterns cover discs that hang around their necks. The patterns may be used to determine an age set or hierarchy in the tribe. Typically woman and young girls partake in the beadwork.
*Most of this is similar to what I saw in "Maasai", which is now back in the library and a very popular book, I might add. I think the basic concepts can be merged into current article without further references. See for instance photo of ruffs/collars. Steve Pastor (talk) 22:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Body art section 

message: This paragraph is found in the music and dance section and seems quite out of place:
"A high infant mortality rate among the Maasai has led to babies not truly being recognized until they reach an age of 3 moons.[33] The end of life is virtually without ceremony, and the dead are left out for scavengers. [34] Burial has been reserved for great chiefs, since it is believed to be harmful to the soil.[35]"
Maybe it's a leftover from when this was a Music and Culture section? Should this be moved to the Social Organization or the Culture section?
Rsdoss (talk) 04:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burial rites in music and dance section 

message: The first paragraph of the Social organization section speaks of "Morons."  That seems like either a very unfortunate typo or a prank, but before I change the second o to a, I'd like to double-check. Troiscoins (talk) 03:47, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing this out. I'd label it "undetected vandalism". Don't know if we get more than average rate, but it can be difficult to keep up. One tactic is to check previous versions of the article. Course, I've worked on this one a lot, and trust my own work. Thanks again.Steve Pastor (talk) 15:11, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typo? 

message: Please ad interwiki link to Turkish: 
[[</u>tr:Masailer]] (drag an drop)
or
:tr:Masailer (source text)
Thanks
91.86.251.174 (talk) 04:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: interwiki

message: The final line in the Music and Dance section appears to be nothing more than an advertisement:
Contemporary Hip Hop musicians X Plastaz from northern Tanzania are incorporating traditional Maasai rhythms, beats and chants into their music.
The X Plasatz article is cited for not being neutral, and this comment may be an extension of that problem. It appears to add nothing to the "Maasai" article and is simply confusing at best. ETomeny (talk) 16:21, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music and Dance (Advertisement) 

message: I believe "uoali" in the diet section should be spelt "ugali"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liam walls (talk • contribs) 06:40, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps. Im' pretty sure I've been down this road before, and I'm trying to pin this down. Meanwhile, the text in the article can be be found here.  Steve Pastor (talk) 17:08, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Am considering adding (aka ugali? sic), but, without something to definitively link the two words, I'm reluctant to do that. Steve Pastor (talk) 17:40, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Uoali vs Ugali

message: There are only about 2000 lions left in Kenya and at the rate the Maasai warriors kill them, the lions in Kenya will be gone within two years.
Replacing 'warriors' with 'hunters'. Maasai are not professional 'warriors', nor are they at war with any other people. Those Maasai finding and killing lions, are hunters. Centrepull (talk) 06:20, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: i watched the source for the "two years" info, it relates that the Maasai/lion animosity is mostly due to recent drought-related scarcity.  I don't believe the maasai regularly kill lions at this rate, but the entry seems to suggest that.  thoughts? Theinterior (talk) 05:30, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warriors? Please! 

message: Surely there should be a section in the main article entitled "Maasai Religion" (as there is on many of the pages devoted to other ethnic groups)? There is a great need here for much more factual information (eg what proportion practice Christianity and of what kinds? What proportion are Muslims and of what kinds?). There are also glaring omissions (eg the Loonkidongi, 'Nenaunir). Who says that because Enkai (a sky god/creator) is the chief god, the Maasai are therefore "monotheist" (what about Olapa, 'Nenaunir and Neiterkob in that case?) The Lesser Merlin (talk) 12:47, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have good sources for such information, and are willing to do the work (including making the citations), I'd say go ahead and put it in the article. As the amount of material devoted to the subject grows, it will justify it being in a section. Sound like a plan? Steve Pastor (talk) 16:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

text: I only wish I could - willing to do the work. There are plenty of mentions elsewhere of the Loonkidongi, 'Nenaunir, Olapa, and Neiterkob - but I am too much of a generalist to have good sources or to recognise one when I see it! The Lesser Merlin (talk) 10:15, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Religion (part2)

message: I was intrigued to read about this theory on page 98 of Charles Miller's book 'the Lunatic Express'.  Quote: "Even today a small but respectable body of opinion holds that the Masai are directly descended from Mark Anthony's lost legion, citing not only physical similarities but Masai battle formations and the striking resemblence of the spears and simis to the weapons of centurions."  
Does anyone else have further data on this theory?  All that detailed stuff about chromosones is a little baffling to the average reader - could it be an answer to this theory? Thanks  ixo (talk) 15:31, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be curious to know what "battle formations" the Maasai might be famous for using? Kortoso (talk) 18:17, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mark Anthony's Lost Legion 

message: One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: . Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Moonriddengirl (talk) 21:28, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: "Many Nilo-Saharan-speaking populations in East Africa, such as the Maasai, show multiple cluster assignments from the Nilo-Saharan (red) and Cushitic (dark purple) AACs..."
: These colors ("red", "dark purple") are apparently in reference to a graphic that we don't have access to directly. I suggest that this be elided. Kortoso (talk) 17:17, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autosomal DNA 

message: For editors interested, there's an RfC currently being held: Should sections on genetics be removed from pages on ethnic groups?. As this will almost certainly result in the removal of the "genetics" section from this article, I'd encourage any contributors to voice their opinions there. --Katangais (talk) 20:04, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genetics for ethnic groups RfC 

message: Is it noteworthy that they provided several cows to the US in solidarity for the loss of life in the 9/11 attacks? I know it's been some time and I don't know the general regard for Snopes as a WP source, but it's probably one of the top reasons Americans would know about them.
140.186.128.45 (talk) 18:06, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  9/11 Solidarity 

message: This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Sennecaster  (What now?) 23:11, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: this link is a reverse copy of wikipedia, as almost all of it were written pre-2011 and the website doesn't go back farther on archives. I think the close paraphrasing tag is unnecessary. Sennecaster  (What now?) 23:26, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible copyright problem 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:53, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: , I reverted your addition of a 2020 health study as undue, and I think we should also remove the 1972 study which I had previously removed until we can come up with more balanced text summarizing the studies. These studies are inconsistent with other findings: "In spite of a high fat, high cholesterol diet, the Maasai have low rates of diseases typically associated with such diets. They tend to have low blood pressure, their overall cholesterol levels are low, they have low incidences of cholesterol gallstones, as well as low rates of coronary artery diseases such as atherosclerosis." Kolya Butternut (talk) 02:03, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now deleted all health related sections. The Weston Price claims are historically relevant because Weston Price had a huge influence. However, his health claims and conjectures are not compliant with WP:MEDRS so they have to be put into context. That's why I added the two studies on arteriosclerosis and CVD health. The article on Wired is just one guy pushing his gene theory, that may or may not be right. I'd rather prefer a text book. CarlFromVienna (talk) 07:01, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

text: I've since discovered, the Nestel quote comes from this peer-reviewed article: "Food and Nutrition Policy". It's from 1986, not 1989. The Suttie source cited above is from a non-peer reviewed newsletter put out by the Tropical Agriculture Association, in the December 2001 issue, accessible on that webpage (it's a pdf). I cannot tell if it's peer-reviewed, but that it had incorrect info for the Nestel citation does not reflect too highly on it. I'd say, anything written about diet would benefit from the Nestel piece, but not the Suttie one. --Pinchme123 (talk) 08:53, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diet and health studies 

message: I figure this will be easier to discuss under a separate heading. We can edit the above text as needed, then discuss here.
This whole section is a mess. The first paragraph of this has a single source, which says none of what the paragraph reports. Dr. Price isn't mentioned at all, the reported diets of pastoralist peoples, Maasai included, doesn't at all reflect this list. The citation points to a quote from Nestel (1989). Here's that Nestel quote:
The article itself, even beyond this quote, is likely a good source for a discussion of Maasai diet (at least, during the 1980s). But it's a vestige from when that Nestel quote was included here nearly in its entirety, and wasn't meant as a paragraph-wide source. None of the material from Dr. Price has a citation; in fact, it was dropped in without one in 2012 [diff]. 
Not to mention, none of the material under discussion here should fall under a sub-heading "Diet", in my opinion.
Under a proper "Health" section, what material would remain after removing unsourced assertions by Dr. Price seems too narrow to be anything more than additional supporting statements about Maasai health, generally. I suggest we delete most of this and set what's properly sourced remaining aside for the time being. If someone wants to tackle a general "Health" section.
-- Pinchme123 (talk) 08:05, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've since discovered, the Nestel quote comes from this peer-reviewed article: "Food and Nutrition Policy". It's from 1986, not 1989. The Suttie source cited above is from a non-peer reviewed newsletter put out by the Tropical Agriculture Association, in the December 2001 issue, accessible on that webpage (it's a pdf). I cannot tell if it's peer-reviewed, but that it had incorrect info for the Nestel citation does not reflect too highly on it. I'd say, anything written about diet would benefit from the Nestel piece, but not the Suttie one. --Pinchme123 (talk) 08:53, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion of health section text 

message: It seems there's a bit of confusion about which version of English should be used in this article. It's about a people living in eastern Africa, spread over two former British colonies which are both a part of the Commonwealth of Nations: Kenya and Tanzania. Seems like pretty clear-cut reasoning for this article to use Commonwealth English, per MOS:TIES. , you first cited WP:ERA for justification to revert someone trying to standardize Commonwealth English in the article, which is unrelated. Now, you've reverted me by pointing to WP:ENGVAR. Engvar has two sections relevant here: first in Strong national ties to a topic:  And: . Second, in Retaining existing variety, there is a clear example of the limited exception to retaining: . 
This article is about a people indigenous to two countries which are a part of the Commonwealth of Nations and are both former British colonies. It already contains both Commonwealth and American English terms. Some examples: "metres," "colour," "privatisation," and "centre" of the former; and "color," "organization," and "symbolize" of the latter (leaving aside the other term changed and reverted). There is no established spelling, but even if there were, MOS:TIES is a strong reason for this article to be written with Commonwealth English.
I am going to be bold and adjust the few cases of American English I recognize, but would appreciate help in identifying any others and shifting them to Commonwealth English.
--Pinchme123 (talk) 02:54, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:ERA was a brain freeze on my part, I meant ENGVAR. Your argument is convincing, so please change all the spelling accordingly, not just the couple of words that the IP editor I reverted changed (which left the article with inconsistent spelling). ~Anachronist (talk) 03:01, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've already changed the words I immediately recognized. I personally grew up with American English though, so I'm not the best for spotting American English. If others notice any American English terms remaining in the article, please do change them. --Pinchme123 (talk) 03:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commonwealth English 

message: The term , for 'settlement or compound, often temporary, established by a family or clan, or as an encampment of young warriors', never appears in this article once.  That seems like an obvious omission.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  11:55, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Manyatta'' 

message: I've developed a section over at Tartan#Maasai shúkà. I think the majority of it should be merged into Maasai people#Clothing, and a shorter summary left behind at the tartan article. However, between the two sections there is arguably enough already for a stub article at Shúkà (which I'm presently redirecting to the tartan section because it provides more information).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  12:17, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Shúkà''