Talk:National Socialism (disambiguation)/archive1

message: We are having an ongoing dispute of National Socialism and its disambiguation page.  You take out much material from the disambig page and say it doesn't belong.  Yet I have found a page that shows otherwise.  Am I being unfairly treated?  Is there one rule for me and another for somebody else.  I would like for you to look at Holocaust (disambiguation) and notice that this doesn't follow your rules.   WHEELER 15:51, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Ongoing Dispute

message: Does anyone have any information on whether Nazism is a type of socialism? Who says it was, and who says it wasn't? What reasons has either side in this dispute given?
All I know is that Hitler denounced Marxism. Does this mean he can't be a socialist? If a Christian denounces Soviet-style Communism, which is totalitarian, has a command economy and suppresses freedom of religion) does this automatically mean that this Christian is against Christian communism or against all forms of Socialism?
Apart form its name, National Socialism is connected with Socialism because of its  program which has many socialist traits. See also Nazi policy Gleichschaltung. There were previous discussions about this subject, maybe you will find them helpful: 
As for Marxism, Marxism-Leninism was official ideology of Soviet Union which, by some authors, had many similarities with Nazi Germany. So many socialist point out that Hitler denounced Marxism.  -- Vision Thing -- 07:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Best book about this is The Road to Serfdom. It convincingly demonstrates the socialist roots of Nazism. Besides, I must strongly disagree that National socialism is restricted to the Nazi experience. The Quebec sovereignty movement is oftenly considered to be national socialist, without being close to nazism. --Childhood's End 16:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Socialism and National Socialism

message: There is no need for any description of Nazism longer than one sentence, because National Socialism leads to Nazism, so anybody that comes to this page obviously isn't interested in that topic, or already knows enough about it. -- Vision Thing -- 14:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point - I never thought about it that way. I agree with your most recent version. There is one other issue, however: The assertion about Trotsky's use of the term "national socialism" seems rather dubious, and all the other instances of "national socialism" listed on this page are cases of self-description. I think it is a bad idea to list cases of "national socialism" used as an epithet (especially unsourced ones at that). -- Nikodemos 09:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found this Trotsky's work , in which he uses "national socialism" to describe Stalin's theory of socialism in one country as national socialism. Btw, this use it is also listed at German Wikipedia . Do you know anything about Honecker's national socialism? -- Vision Thing -- 20:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I still have misgivings about listing epithets on this page, simply because it might spiral out of control (I'm sure the number of political leaders that have been called "national socialists" by their opponents is somewhere in the thousands). But now that we have a source, I agree to keep Trotsky's use of the term here. However, I reserve the right to remove it if this page turns into a long list of people and ideas that have been called "national socialist" by someone somewhere. Self-description is a much better way to go about it. -- Nikodemos 01:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nazism

message: We need to have a discussion about the continuous redirect of National Socialism and National socialism to Nazism instead of National Socialism (disambiguation); and the continuous insertion of claims concerning the term and its use, especially in the lead, but also elsewhere. This discussion is best held at Nazism so we can all, literally, be on the same page.  Thanks. --Cberlet 14:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: National Socialism

message: Vison_Thing. Your edits here seem to be imposing your own narrow POV on what should be a page that directs readers to various uses of the term "national socialism," rather than the specific use you favor.  After your repeaed edits against consensus (which is well-established), why should I not report your reverts as vandalism or edit warring?--Cberlet (talk) 22:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are free to take any action you want. However, can you explain what makes current version POV in relation to this version established by you in November 2007? -- Vision  Thing -- 15:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a red herring. Sometimes new ideas lead to new edits. Sometimes compromises are temporary based on changing consensus.--Cberlet (talk) 18:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So now we have temporary compromises and changing consensus. And all that without any new discussions. Interesting. :) But even if we leave that aside, in your edit summaries and here you are accusing me of violating WP:NPOV. How am I and how were you violating NPOV here? -- Vision  Thing -- 19:24, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please refer to the various discussion page votes you lost, page discussions where a majority of editors disagreed with you, and the mediation. Thanks.--Cberlet (talk) 19:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like nothing has changed, you continue to accuse me for breaking Wikipedia policies every chance you get and when I ask for evidence you provide no clear answer. -- Vision  Thing -- 16:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV?

message: “This was a tabulation of two votes on this topic:”
“poll on the Nazism page where I thought this issue was settled, but apparently the struggle is not over.  Please consider voting in the new poll, or adding a comment at: Talk:Nazism#Survey:_redirecting_National_Socialism. Also consider notifying other editors with an interest in this matter. I am doing the best I can, but need assistance. Thanks.”
The editor compiled this list:
(talk) Second Poll - Oppose both
158.223.71.65 First Poll - oppose
205.157.110.11 First Poll - oppose
Billy Ego First Poll - support
Billy Ego Second Poll - Support > Nazism
Cberlet First Poll - oppose
Cberlet Second Poll - Support > DAB
Chris First Poll - oppose
Chris Second Poll - Support > DAB
Dahn First Poll - oppose
Dahn Second Poll - Support > DAB
DickClarkMises Second Poll - Oppose both
DNewhall First Poll - oppose
DpotopFirst Poll - support
FCYTravis First Poll - oppose
Gene Nygaard First Poll - oppose
Gene Nygaard Second Poll - Support > DAB
User:HIZKIAH First Poll - oppose
Intangible2.0 First Poll - support
Intangible2.0 Second Poll - Oppose both
Jmabel First Poll - oppose
JoeCarson First Poll - support
JoeCarson Second Poll - Support > DAB
user:lygophile Second Poll - Support > Nazism
MarkThomas Second Poll - Support > DAB
Mitsos Second Poll - Oppose both
User:Nichalp First Poll - oppose
Nikodemos First Poll - oppose
Norvo First Poll - oppose
Petri Krohn First Poll - oppose
Psychonaut First Poll - oppose
rewinn First Poll - oppose
rewinn First Poll - support
rewinn Second Poll - Support > DAB
Slrubenstein First Poll - oppose
User:SwitChar First Poll - oppose
User:SwitChar Second Poll - Support > DAB
Tazmaniacs First Poll - oppose
Tazmaniacs Second Poll - Support > DAB
Trovatore Second Poll - Oppose both
Trovatore Second Poll - Support > Nazism
-- Vision Thing -- First Poll - support
WGee First Poll - oppose
User:Wirbelwind First Poll - oppose
User:Zleitzen First Poll - oppose
I hope this answers your question, Vision_Thing. --Cberlet (talk) 13:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Another editor who tried to build consensus

message: Bold text
I'm logged in for the very first time, so i will keep it simple and short.
What i personally think is the real meaning of national socialism is the education, no political ideology, of social awareness. Think about a country or republic which was educated on the awareness of their country and things happened around them. People who are educated to stand up and stand out for what is right and face terrors without fears. People who are willing to protect the soil that nurture them instead of casting a shadow over it. This is the real national socialism.
Frankchongszehong (talk) 12:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Real National Socialism