Talk:Qere and Ketiv

message: Per the comment above, I am merging the two to a single article, Qere and Ketiv.  It makes much more sense to take them together comprehensively on the one page.  I'll use a move, so the new article will retain the history of this page.  The individual words (and their variant spellings) will forward to there, as redirects. 
IMO the spelling "Ketiv" is to be preferred.  It's the spelling used by Encyclopedia Judaica, and by Kelley et al in The Masorah of Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia.  The three are all about even in a google fight: "qere ketiv -wikipedia" gets 1380,  "qere kethib -wikipedia" 1220,  "qere ketib -wikipedia" 1690.  -- Jheald 19:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merging

message: We now have two paragraphs on Q're perpetuum right before the article section on Q're perpetuum... AnonMoos (talk) 10:28, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: result of merger

message: Can someone please explain this? Ty. --Adamgold33 (talk) 23:26, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what you mean -- that phrase doesn't occur in the article.  Some think that the Tiberian Masoretes (not necessarily other Masoretes) were actually Karaites (not "Rabbanites"), but that has had no real relevance to textual interpretation, as far as I'm aware... AnonMoos (talk) 14:26, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Difference between Masoretic tradition and Jewish tradition? 

message: I restored some material that was deleted along with a brief description of the meaning of Elokim. Regarding the meaning, I wouldn't say that it is "contested" or unknown. In Jewish traditional literature, especially in Kabbalah, all the meanings are unified quite nicely:
* G-d
* judges
* angels
* other gods
* G-d as He expresses Himself through nature
* G-d as master over nature
* the all-powerful G-d
* G-d acting with the attribute of strict justice
* G-d acting in a concealed fashion
This is done by associating Elokim with the attribute of Gevurah, or power and constriction (in contrast, the Tetragrammaton itself is the attribute of unlimited kindness and revelation): 
* Kabbalah links the name Elokim to nature, and shows that the gematria of Elokim equals that of nature, hatevah. Hence, Elokim is a name related to how G-d acts through and controls nature. 
* As nature is finite and G-d is infinite, there must first be a concealment of G-d's light, lest nature be obliterated. Since this is a concealment of an infinite Luminary, the power to hold back the light must be great. Hence, the concealment is only possible because G-d is the all-powerful G-d, possessing powers of both infinitude and finitude.
* Since justice and logic must follow constrained rules which limit G-d's Infinite light, they are also indicated by Elokim. In addition, there is a Talmudic statement that a judge ruling justly by G-d's Torah becomes a partner in Creation, which occurred through the name Elokim (Genesis 1). 
* Similarly, when G-d dispatches emissaries (angels), this is a level of concealment and constriction of His light. (Although despite this concealment, G-d's presence is still overwhelming enough that the angel may "forget" his own existence and thus speak in first person, as if he were G-d Himself; as in when Abraham was commanded not to kill Isaac.)
* "Other gods" according to Maimonides, Hilchot Avoda Zarah, originated in the worship of G-d's emissaries, the forces of nature. These angels are again constricted expressions of G-d's light.
However, lacking a list of exact sources, I have refrained from restoring my explanation that Elokim refers to G-d as an all-powerful G-d for now, leaving only the citation from the Kestenbaum Tikkun and that Elokim is another Divine name. (In fact, if written in ink or engraved, halachah forbids erasing it, it being one of the seven sheimos she'eino nimchakim). And, a lengthy explanation is beyond the scope of this article's proper. I would like to edit the Elokim article, but that appears to be a difficult project for which I may not have time for a while. Musashiaharon (talk) 10:42, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elokim 

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thread_title:  External links modified