Talk:Istrian scale

message: It is a 6-tone scale; hexatonal scale.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.17.8 (talk) 17:37, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is now changed to reflect that. 204.29.160.172 (talk) 23:35, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Six

message: Problem: I'm here looking for an "Istrian scale" (this article's name?). This is an article about EVERYTHING BUT. After reading the article, this professional musician is unclear how to form an Istrian scale. 
Critique_#A: All Musical Terms (eg. mode, scale) require clear definitions. 
Western musicians define scales 
FIRST by formula type (eg: 
[|Major], [|Minor], [|Octotonic], 
[|Slendro ] . . . 
etc). Then we note the tuning /pitch-center (eg: A,Bb,C#,; 440Hz; angklung, etc). 
MODES otoh, are aspects of scales. Modes are applications of scales, often associated with particular musical works. In an encyclopedia discussion of scales, modality is beter represented after the scale is clearly defined. 
And in western Musicology, a scale is a regular succession of notes in ascending / descending order based on a fixed formula. The Istrian formula is missing'  these articles even show confusion among Contributors: 
Within the article and this Talk page, I read two competing formulas: 'heptatonic' versus 'hexatonal'... So WHO is counting? It appears we lack consensus; and this is good. All Contributors are encouraged; a community needs its Collectors. And societies need critical Editors. 
Critique_#B: Tonality 
The article is inconsistent re: tonality. Western musicians can represent tonality verbally, explicitly by describing the formula (eg. Major, Minor, Istrian) and then by naming the discrete frequency (A440, slendro, etc) the formula is in - not on. OTOH, on describes mode selection. 
Example: Terry Riley's most famous work, a universe of notes and modes around a central C-pitch (or vibration)  is ' ON YouTube' and " IN C". 
The article's first example of the "Istrian scale" is presented on staves; and is clearly labeled with the [undefined & unlinked] term "[heptatonic]" 
and 'on C'- a modal term. So does the example show a Croat mode, passing through C? Or a scale, "in C"? Or is it both? Neither? The article's words say one thing.
The recording suggests something else. 
Only when we define tonality, can we face other musical facts: 
In 'Bartok'-style modern usage, accidentals (sharps,# /flats,b /neutrals) vary within staves and bar lines. Sorry but its true. So to optimize clarity, ' take advantage of key signatures.  
And for simplicity's sake, Readers prefer simple musical examples to be written "in_C"; or "in C-Major key signature". Basic musical formulas can and should be presented using ONE pitch-center- IN C. 
Gb in C is nice, but varies from Example_#1. Such transpositions belong in another article, or should only be invoked after any possible modalities are clear.
A 2nd musical example is presented here, labeled "Sopilas" [undefined, unlinked term]. What does "Sopilas" have to do with Istrian? Is it Greek? Latin? A girl's name? We don't know... but... 
Critique_#C - Tuning: 
The writer says the scale is "non-Equal-Tempered" yet declines to define the temper or the pitch-center. Meanwhile the Example_#1 recording uses... a Piano! 
Pianos are the very devil of equal-temper instruments. Correct pitches may be shared using any musical sound- a cello, violin, guitars, electronics. So is this a natural-pitched, Pythagorean electronic piano? Or the standard equal-tempered tuning?? TELL US. More than anything, TUNING matters...
 
But then, why is the "Sopilas" example even here? What unique element does Example_Sopilas represent of the Istrian scale? Is it the same scale transposed, a  leftover transposition from an orphaned contribution? Unknown. It deserves DEFINITION, Clarification ... or removal   
Critique_#D - Stave Systems love Key_Signatures: 
The first example conflicts with the modern 'Bartok-style' standard of accidentals usage where accidentals do not apply throughout the bar. 
Example_1 assumes an older tradition, where accidentals do apply throughout the bar; ie., The KEY remains. And the recording suggests the key is Gb, with the Tonic -- ie., the tonality -- in C. 
MUSIC SHOWS THAT MOST CLEARLY with key-signatures. 
Example_1 should be IN Gb Major, ON C. Now we can say this like musicians, in one breath:
 "Example_1 uses a key-signature of Gb, on the pitch-center C". 
This one phrase alone could clarify this entire article. But in doing so it may mis-represent Istrian scale as a western mode. Further clarification may be needed at this point.
Know this: *Editors edit*. I'd like to fix the writing here myself.. but as a non-Croat, I do not hear or see what our Contributors intend . . . 'Hilarleo Hey,L.E.O. 00:39, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Major clarity issues