Talk:French phonology

message: In section 2.6 (Length), there is a table. I struggled on line 3 of this table however, as the line reads, "faites ... faire ... fait" - but says that the vowel in each is the same phoneme. I was very confused as I read this as, "(you (plural)) do... to do... done (past participle)" in which case, the vowel for "fait" would not be the same as that of faites and faire. However, the article actually meant, "(you) do... to do... fact" Since "fact" and "done" are homographs in French but not homophones, and the line in question gives some conjugations of "faire" it seems misleading to then use a completely unrelated word where there is a homograph which would follow the pattern. So, what may be done to remedy this? I can't think of an example to replace it with, as I'm not all too sure about IPA jargon and definitions. Thanks EcheveriaJ (talk) 23:04, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I may have misunderstood your question: but although I am not a native French speaker, *all* the examples in the last column (not only fait) have the shortest value: those in the first two columns are medium and long. As you say, Fait can mean n. 'fact' or v. 'done', but are (I believe) definitely pronounced exactly the same. There are no homophones in this list at all. The last column has the shortest length: eg the phrase je l'ai fait repeats the same sound, which is similar to eg Italian Auto da fé. This is different again (I suspect) from fée (fairy), more like rêve. As the IPA shows, the same written letters ai, ɛ, all have different pronunciations in French. A relatively nasal Scottish accent might tend to mask all these differences. Compare Glesga "Och, hen" (more like 'hên'), and posh English "the hen laid an egg." Copy and paste the IPA from the table (without square brackets) into IPA reader and select a French speaker, eg Mathieu or Celine [French]. Looking at the table, the line sotte, mort, — has no open syllable equivalent, but In Les Quatre Cent Coups in answer to the exasperated teacher's question, Doinel says "Elle et morte." which is definitely shorter than the other two. MinorProphet (talk) 23:03, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  - Yes, I didn't quite understand that the length of the sound shortened across the row. I was just going off of the IPA vowel chart where I thought /fɛ/ sounded little like "fait" which I would pronounce as, /fe̞/. Don't really know why I thought the noun and verb have different pronunciations: I've never thought that before so it might just be the tiredness finally caught up with me - I think I was thinking about, "en fait, il ..." where I would indeed pronounce "fait" not as /fe̞/ but as /fɛt/ and I think I then just extrapolated this idea. Don't know. Thanks for the clarification. Concerning my accent, every Scot I've ever met (who has had the audacity to say) says that I sound English and many have asked where I actually come from . Then in England I'm told I sound  so very Scottish. My accent is more like Edwin Morgan than it is Kevin Bridges! My ear probably does fail to distinguish between some of these sounds though. Les Quatre Cent Coups is a film I've yet to watch, a friend has told me its not as good as Pierrot Le Fou (a film I'm indiffirent too). Thank you for your help again, it's always appreciated. I often surf the ref boards too EcheveriaJ (talk) 16:51, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homographs that are not homophones causing confusion 

message: Is the sound /œ̃/ disappearing in France? Please give me some source. 2405:9800:BA20:5F75:EDD0:3899:182E:DE22 (talk) 08:41, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: See the "Nasal vowels" section. Nardog (talk) 09:09, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  French un /ɛ̃/ vs /œ̃/ 

message: People don't you think that the french close vowels sound more like consonants for many speakers? 193.92.245.74 (talk) 22:49, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  French i u and ou 

message: In the consonants section, the old examples are all just the consonant followed by the vowel . I think we should have some new examples. 2601:C6:D281:6710:E1E8:5E9D:FA34:663E (talk) 22:15, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The new examples are here. Go to the main page about this topic for more information. 2601:C6:D281:6710:9851:F0C2:7121:8B14 (talk) 20:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

text: Minimal pairs illustrate contrasts. And [ʁ̥] is not a phoneme. Nardog (talk) 04:11, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples