Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/CarInsurance.com

message: 208.30.173.194 04:53, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For notability we look for significant mention from multiple, independent reliable sources. At the moment the article has only one independent source, it's a local paper and the mention of carinsurance.com in the article is not significant.  Rather than pointing to google searches (which are not appropriate for the article and are not considered appropriate evidence of notability) please provide actual links or citations that show the notability of the company.  I have looked through several pages of Google and a couple of other search engines and have been unable to find anything.  A. B. was also unable to find anything.  You seem to be saying above that there are links within the results that show notability. Could you point us directly to the individual links that you believe do this? Thanks -- Siobhan Hansa 13:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Notability

message: As I look further to see how the user A. B. masked the truth. He stated that 208.30.173.194 was registered to LR3. I know that this isn't possible. 
He used an old address to try to mask truth in his links. I guess this editorial investigation comes from users that lie.
We don't lie. This is our mission statement:
Our primary mission is to actively manage our clients and to continually enhance our company's value as a long-term Managing General Agency. We believe that the thoughtful, deliberate and prudent management of every policy, both in financial terms and in terms of maintaining the quality of customer service and dedication allows us to prosper.
We pursue this mission through our basic business: as large scale, comprehensive insurance underwriters and agent services which are committed to the highest standards of quality. We employ the most talented, motivated people available, and encourage them to apply their full potential in the pursuit of excellence. 
We insist that our business goals serve both our agents and customers. We seek to enhance the long-term equity values of all relationships.
In all these things, we are determined to conduct our affairs honestly, fairly, forthrightly and ethically.
He says. "This IP address traces back to "mail.carinsurance.com". Unfortunately, he links to old domains:208-30-173-192 --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.30.173.194 (talk • contribs) 00:18, 23 January 2007  (UTC)
:Your attack on A. B. is unfounded.  As A. B. notes below WhoIs for 208.30.173.194 shows registration to LR3 and reverse DNS for 208.30.173.194 shows mail.carinsurance.com.  Your time would be better spent actually trying to improve this article rather than falsely attacking the veracity of a diligent, well respected editor.  -- Siobhan Hansa 11:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unfortunate Editor Masking

message: My responses to 208.30.173.194
*It is sad when "editors" subvert the truth to make a point, which is inconsistent with their goals.
::*I don't know what to say here, it certainly wasn't my intent to subvert the truth and I don't see how I did.
*"As a person with intimate knowledge about the items revealed (with inaccurate parenthesis) in this article, I would like to shed some truth."
::*See Wikipedia's Conflict of Interest Guideline
::*As noted below, the IP address 208.30.173.194 is associated with carinsurance.com
*It is interesting that when you scan the first 100 as the editor states instead of starting with 500 as the editor did above http://www.google.com/search?q=CarInsurance.com/&start=500, then you find the notability that the editor masked: Multiple Notable Hits
::*My original post as written (with additional formatting):
::**"Google search produced 528 unique hits, however none of the first 100 I skimmed seemed to meet the requirements for a reliable source."
::***Click the first Google link above and you'll get the first 100 hits. The second link leads to hits 501 through 528. 
::**I still don't see any hits in the first 100 results that meet the requirements of Wikipedia's Reliable Sources Guideline
*"As all would agree, no newspaper (especially the biased Orlando Sentinel) should be used to prove notability. The public should prove notability, not a paid news service."
**Maybe, maybe not -- it's certainly not how we do things at Wikipedia. Please refer to the links I provided earlier above. I'll repeat them here again for convenience:
***Wikipedia's Notability Guideline for Companies
***Wikipedia's Notability Guideline for Web Sites
***Wikipedia's Verifiability Policy
***Wikipedia's Reliable Sources Guideline
**As for the reliability of the Orlando Sentinel, see:
***2000 Pulitzer Prize
***1993 Pulitzer Prize
***1988 Pulitzer Prize
**A search of the Orlando Business Journal for Carinsurance.com also turns up nothing
*"As I look further to see how the user A. B. masked the truth. He stated that 208.30.173.194 was registered to LR3. I know that this isn't possible. He used an old address to try to mask truth in his links. I guess this editorial investigation comes from users that lie."
**Whois results from clicking the link at the bottom of User talk:208.30.173.194:
***"Sprint SPRINTLINK-BLKS (NET-208-0-0-0-1) 208.0.0.0 - 208.35.255.255"
***"LR3 Enterprises FON-349167148882986 (NET-208-30-173-192-1)208.30.173.192 - 208.30.173.223"
**Traceroute results from clicking the link at the bottom of User talk:208.30.173.194:
***The final hop says: "[Reached Destination]mail.carinsurance.com."
*"He says. "This IP address traces back to "mail.carinsurance.com". Unfortunately, he links to old domains:208-30-173-192"
**See whois and traceroute links cited earlier in this section. 
--A. B. (talk) 01:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Respond to allegations of misconduct 

message: Given the gravity of 208.30.173.194's accusations regarding my behavior as an editor:
*"...subvert the truth"
*"...user A. B. masked the truth"
*"...I guess this editorial investigation comes from users that lie."
*"...I will now submit this editor for removal because of the lack of editorial discretion."
... I have requested an outside opinion at WikiProject Spam. --A. B. (talk) 04:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I left left this user 208.30.173.194 a warning about inflamatory language and civility. I think you are 100% correct in the line you are pursuing. --BozMo talk 11:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The IP's accusations are unfounded, unacceptable and reflect more poorly on him/her than on you A. B.  I think your approach has been exactly what was called for and you should keep it up.  -- Siobhan Hansa 12:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outside opinions sought 

message: :: --A. B., I apologize for the inflamatory language. You have justified your interpretation of your research and we will respect the Wiki editor's opinion in this matter. 208.30.173.194 13:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apology to A.B. 

message: Note that there has also been inappropriate commercial linking from other Wikipedia articles to the carinsurance.com web site from these accounts in the past:
*208.30.173.194 (talk • contribs • links • &site=en.wikipedia.org count • [/wiki/Special:Log?user= actions] • [/wiki/Special:Log/?page=User: logs] || WHOIS • RDNS • traceroute • RBLs • tor • search) 
**see above quotes -- traceroutes to mail.carinsurance.com
*71.96.182.227 (talk • contribs • links • &site=en.wikipedia.org count • [/wiki/Special:Log?user= actions] • [/wiki/Special:Log/?page=User: logs] || WHOIS • RDNS • traceroute • RBLs • tor • search) 
**blocked twice
*24.119.101.26 (talk • contribs • links • &site=en.wikipedia.org count • [/wiki/Special:Log?user= actions] • [/wiki/Special:Log/?page=User: logs] || WHOIS • RDNS • traceroute • RBLs • tor • search)
**Note: this may be a Joe job
*Arun Venkatesan (talk • contribs • links • &site=en.wikipedia.org count • [/wiki/Special:Log?user= actions] • [/wiki/Special:Log/?page=User: logs] •  status)
**Article's creator (twice)
*Ronaugu (talk • contribs • links • site=en.wikipedia.org count • [/wiki/Special:Log?user= actions] • [/wiki/Special:Log/?page=User: logs] •  status)
--A. B. (talk) 07:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: Recently User:A. B. asked for advice at the above project page. My comment was as follows:
:Your addition of the  banner to CarInsurance.com seems eminently justified! And I still don't see any reliable sources (WP:RS) in the article. You laid out your research on the Talk page, and User_talk:208.30.173.194 criticized your work without appearing to have any documented facts to support his position. My guess is that an AfD proposal, should you think it appropriate, would meet with some sympathy... EdJohnston 13:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment posted at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam]]