Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs/Archive 1

message: We are a new project, and need some help. If you would like you could be a volenteer and help us out!
*I love animals - have 3 great dogs. Will be happy to help as time permits. DrL 04:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New! 

message: Laika is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality.  Sandy 16:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Laika]] 

message: Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory.  This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you.  B2T2 23:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project directory 

message: Added assessment page, and will start assessments presently. I do have one question, though. Would the members of this project have any objections to having the project expand its scope a little to include all the Canines? The wolves and other members of the canine family are sometimes important to dog people too (I know one dog which is allegedly half-wolf) and doing so would ensure that those articles are actively being watched by a project, which right now is not true. Anyway, I'll start tagging the dog articles today, and we should have some idea what we've got already within the next day or so. Badbilltucker 17:02, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assessment 

message: Hi guys, looks like you are doing some great work, but Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dog_breeds already exists with a slightly different name. - Trysha (talk) 20:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * Ah - So what is the protocol for handling/merging/whatever this? Keesiewonder 15:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duplicate Project 

message: I think something we could do that might help us improve the quality of a number of articles would be to choose a set number of articles which we consider to be of top-importance which all the members could work on. In effect, we would be indicating that these articles are de facto collaborations until such time as they are brought up to what we consider to be a sufficient standard. Once that happens, we could choose the next group of articles to concentrate on. So far, I have only marked as top-importance those on the Wikipedia CD selection, but know that there are others. I wonder what the rest of you would think of this idea, and which articles you think should be included. Given the current size of this project, I think 25 articles for the first phase of improvement would probably be enough. But, given the huge number of articles that do exist and could exist on wikipedia about dogs, I think we can reasonably say that we could have 25 articles of top importance. I welcome any and all responses. Badbilltucker 22:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top importance articles 

message: Mixed-breed dog is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality.  Sandy (Talk) 23:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Mixed-breed dog]] 

message: As it stands, there is no project which covers the Canidae family beyond dogs per se. Would the members of this project be interested in expanding the scope of the project a little to cover the wolves, foxes, and other canines?  I'm thinking that the repeated talk of crossbreeding dogs and wolves makes it reasonable that at least wolves, which are not in the scope of any other projects other than :Wikipedia:WikiProject Mammals and :Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life, both very broad projects, could legitimately be included in the scope of this project. I would welcome any and all responses. Badbilltucker 16:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible expansion of project 

message: There is currently a barnstar proposal at :Wikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals/New Proposals#Wildlife Barnstar for a barnstar which would be available for use for this project. Please feel free to visit the page and make any comments you see fit. Badbilltucker 15:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wildlife Barnstar 

message: I have placed Tamaskan Dog on AfD as I believe it to be a hoax, or extremely non-notable breed. Any comments would be most welcome.--Nydas 10:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tamaskan Dog AfD 

message: Please beware edits by 85.92.183.119. It appears to me that they are working through the alphabet adding an entry to every dog breed page under External Links to www.thedogscene.co.uk. Personally, I do not find this necessary or useful and have reverted their change on the Keeshond page. Keesiewonder 14:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spam? 

message: I recently created the Dog Show Superintendents Association article, and am looking for some help editing it. If you can contribute in any way whatsoever, please feel free.
Also, if you feel that the article I made should not be included in Wikipedia, please feel free to propose it for deletion. I will not object if you do, unless substantial edits have taken place. Thank you! :3 Pumeleon 23:49, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article of interest to your project. 

message: Hi,
Out of curiosity I visited the German dog page de:Haushund and it struck me how good it is. Among other things it has charts of the dog's teeth (which would be a nice addition to dog anatomy) and a chart of how dog and human vision differs.
There is also an excellent anatomical chart of the dog with the names of the different parts (in German of course), which I think is an essential thing that should be in the English dog article for sure - I would surely expect to find something like this in a paper encyclopaedia.
I would like to help with taking some of this and incorporating into the English articles, possibly over the Christmas season when I had some time, but I just wanted to mention it to inspire others who might want to look at it, and who are perhaps better at German than me ;)
TH 17:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We would be more than happy to welcome any additions you might be able to give to the article. We would only ask that you try to find some sourcing for the additions, as wikipedia policy is such that articles in foreign language wikipedias are not considered reliable sources. I know a little German (forgot most of it) and might be able to help a little. You might also want to notify the active Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds of this page in the German wikipedia. They may also have people who would be willing and/or able to assist you in this matter. Thanks again. Badbilltucker 18:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  German Wikipedia dog article 

message: There is now a proposed project at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Veterinary Medicine to deal with matters of veterinary medicine, a subject which currently has disproportionately low content in wikipedia. Any wikipedia editors who have an interest in working on content related to the subject are encouraged to indicate as much there. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Veterinary medicine project 

message: I have some suspicions about this 'rare' breed of dog; I suspect it might be another Tamaskan. It's not recognised by any major kennel club, and the external links don't fill me with confidence. There are some grand claims here, but a severe lack of sources. There are 10,000+ google hits, but most of these refer to 'Alopekis Street' - a search for Alopekis + Dog gets considerably fewer hits, and none of them seem convincing. There are no Alopekis clubs or societies. Any thoughts?--Nydas(Talk) 09:45, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I'll think about it and look around. We have the Molosser article and the Molossers category. I mention this because I'm surprised someone hasn't linked the Alopekis up with this category ... which includes several rare or "rare" breeds. Also, essentialy the same site is used on many, many of these articles, albeit pointing to the one breed mentioned in the article.Keesiewonder 12:05, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *One thing in particular is the assertation that it was once considered to be the same breed as the Meliteo Kinidio. Since it's not recognised by any kennel club, who decided this was no longer the case?--Nydas(Talk) 13:18, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I've put the article up deletion. Any opinions would be most welcome. --Nydas(Talk) 12:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Alopekis]] Dog 

message: Can somebody supply a list of dog related stubs that I could work on?  Culverin?  Talk  01:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *How about this: :Category:Stub-Class_Dogs_articles and/or :Category:Dog_stubs. Keesiewonder 11:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks mate.  Culverin?  Talk  02:13, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Work 

message: I think we need to delete German Wire-haired Pointer since we have the superior German Wirehaired Pointer. Ok? Shall I nominate it for an AfD? Keesiewonder 17:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually don't think we would have to. Just add the  tag to the top of the page. We really only nominate for AfD if we think that there'll be a disagreement, and I doubt if there will be one in this case. The only thing to make sure of is that all the links to the page to be deleted get changed to the one we're keeping. Badbilltucker 18:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[German Wire-haired Pointer]] is an extra ... 

message: Could someone 
:1) take a look at this oldish discussion: Talk:Akita_Inu#Renaming_akita_articles
:2) this Akita
:3) and this Japanese Akita Inu
:4) and then suggest, given The Kennel Club has two breed standards (at least with different pictures), what, if anything we should do to clean things up?
Keesiewonder 23:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The most horrible answer is also probably the best one: trying to completely differentiate the two breeds on the article pages and elsewhere. However, as this really falls more under the direct scope of Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds, there is the extremely polite and basically generally evasive option of informing them of the current situation, and, given their significantly greater expertise in the field of dog breeds, to let them try to figure out something to do with it. Personally, callous, thoughless, unfeeling cad that I am, I favor the second option, with this project only stepping in if they either do nothing or try to throw it back in our metaphorical laps. :) Badbilltucker 21:31, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

text: It's my impression that the dog breeds project members  have mostly filtered away to other lives, myself included. I drop by only occasionally. If y'all are interested in dog breed articles as well as in general articles about dogs, I suggest focusing on breeds (that would be all articles with dogbreed infoboxes and related pages, such as list of dog breeds) over there and everything else here. IMHO that would be most useful. But just a heads up that we never did resolve the Akita thing.   Elf | Talk 03:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Akita zanyness 

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention.  Badbilltucker 17:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards 

message: Hey. I'm not a member of this WikiProject  or an expert on dogs, so I thought that you folks might know a bit more about what I'm going to ask. I do some recent changes patrolling, and just now I noticed this new article: Bulldogges. Following the links from this article as well as it's creator's contrib list, I also found these suspect articles:
*Bulldogge
*British Bulldogge
*British Bulldogge Kennel Club
The creator has also made significant edits to both Old English Bulldog and Olde English Bulldogge to insert links to some of these articles. A quick Google search of "british bulldogge kennel club" gets zero Google hits, and "british bulldogge" gets 140 hits, with nothing from reliable sources to confirm that such a breed exists. I'm thinking that a good amount of the information in these articles are hoaxes, but I want to double check with some folks who know about dogs better than I do to tell me if this is nonsense, or if this information is factual. NeoChaosX  (talk, walk) 05:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *NeoChaosX, I've tried asking the same thing myself on this page, and not gotten very far. Maybe you and I should work on this together. I have had considerable frustration trying to sort out all the various bulldog breeds on Wikipedia coupled with one of the main contributor's to the article having a tendency to argue with and disagree with anything I say. If I ask a question, rather than provide the information, he tells me to go to the library and read the book he says he has in his hands. Etc. Interesting how when I ask for page number citations, he doesn't provide them either, at least not in the articles I'm asking about. Please leave me a note here or on my talk page if you'd like to try to work through the bulldog articles together along side their proponents. Keesiewonder talk 10:28, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulldogges? 

message: I just posted the following in the AfD for the Wilkinson Bulldog. I would really appreciate feeling like I am part of a project here, and not just some doggie person. There are accusations and generalizations that are being spread left and right ... Please take a look. (Just realized it appears I didn't sign this originally ... sorry ... Keesiewonder 09:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Might be nice to help out a fellow member, here. Please. 

message: The article on the American Rare Breed Association is currently being considered for deletion. If you would care to comment on this proposal, please go to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Rare Breed Association. Thank you. Badbilltucker 22:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[American Rare Breed Association]] up for deletion 

message: As proposed on the talk page... I moved Docking (animals) to Docking (dog). Docking of dogs is a lot more controvertial than docking of sheep (and mildly more controversial than docking pigs....) - so this article was masking a fairly undisputed agricultural practice.
There was no dissenting opinion on the talk page. So please - no biting me (even if I'm not a newbie any more!)
I won't be changing any links - if your breed may be effected there is still a link from Docking (animals) to Docking (dog), at the top of the article. 
Could somebody interested contribute to the very minor summart section, Docking (animals)#Dogs?
ps. I'm mentioning it here as a courtesy.Garrie 04:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Docking (animals)]] -> [[Docking (dog)]] 

message: I am thinking of listing the above article as an AFD. 
* The primary proponent of the article refuses to implement changes suggested on the talk page, using materials s/he allegedly has. Please read the talk page from here down.
* The article is a confusing mess, mentioning several variations of bulldog with very similar names. I've tried to get clarification from the proponents of the bulldog articles to no avail. What, clearly, is the distinction among Old English Bulldog, the Olde English Bulldogge, and the English Bulldog?
::*For a list of (just some of?) the bulldog articles on WP, please see my talk page: Various Bulldogs on WP.  
* If the Old English Bulldog is important and extinct, why do we link to a site by a/the breeder to information primarily about the Olde English Bulldogge - i.e. there's no link even from this breeder about the Old English Bulldog. 
*I see some things that would be easy to very clean up, but, clearly, the proponent does not care about his/her "own" article enough to do this. Another user has placed tags on the article indicating that it is disputed, too short and unreferenced. The proponent just removes the tags, does not change the article and argues with anyone who suggests a change. Olde English Bulldogge also has unaddressed tags on it and recently survived an AFD. 
::*I would like to see a journal article about bulldogs as one of the references, rather than several books all from the same publisher.
::*I would like to see in text citations with page numbers for the facts within the article that deserve citing. Readers should not have to go and get the references in order to make sense of the WP article ... and if they do choose to get the references, it is customary to provide citations with page numbers to substantiate one's writing.
*I am not convinced that the various web sites (clubs plus a breeder) and books (mostly from one publisher) really are enough to substantiate notability for this topic.
Thoughts about whether the Old English Bulldog should go up for AFD?
Keesiewonder talk 01:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know you well enough to know that you, who have been working specifically on bulldogs, wouldn't even propose this if you had any substantive evidence to indicate it notable. I personally would have no objections, if you think it's the best way to go. However, if you do think that there is any good reason to keep the article, and just keep a certain editor from doing any more editing to it, I believe that that could be done as well. I have seen it done on other pages. Personally, you are much better informed on these issues than I am, and I would not oppose its deletion if you thought it the best way to proceed. Badbilltucker 02:17, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Old English Bulldog]] - should it be an AFD?