Talk:Vulcan (Star Trek)

message: Much of the article seems to imply that Vulcans are real and that Planet Vulcan really exist.  Despite the die hard fans out there who may believe this, it takes away from the informative nature of the page because it is based on a false assumption.  Such a format is quite appropriate on Memory Alpha because the entire premise is that it is the archive of the Federation on the planet Memory Alpha.  But to suggest that a Wikipedia page follow the same format is ridiculous.  This should be edited.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.181.252 (talk) 22:04, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. The article should open with the development of Vulcans as fictional beings and trace the evolution through the production of Star Trek, beginning with Spock's first appearance in "The Cage", followed by the original series, and then subsequent motion pictures and other series. Word can be changed to delineate the real from the fictional. Morganfitzp (talk) 05:31, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Format 

message: Two years ago this article survived AfD, but mostly on the recommendation that it be expanded. It hasn't been, because there's nothing else to say on the subject.
Article content relates purely to Trek, and is only linked from two real pages (this one and Vulcan starships). It's a simple split. Chris Cunningham 11:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done --ShakataGaNai 21:46, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from [[T'plana-hath]] 

message: There should be some section that emphasizes the technological level of the Vulcans at near the beginning of the Federation. Even one-hundred years after first contact, the Vulcans still seemed to be vastly superior to humans. Is/was there any source that indicated maybe when the Vulcans started sharing technology with humans? Or maybe when Humans and Vulcans became equals technologically? Obviously, by the time of the original Star Trek series, the Federation was still relatively young, but all of it founding members were equals technologically. I think some elaboration on these points would add significantly to the article, but I lack any of the required knowledge to create a proper section. Rajrajmarley 21:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Technology level 

message: I've been an avid Star Trek fan for going on six years now and this is the first time I've heard it mentioned that Spock's Favorite drink was carrot juice.
I would be willing to accept this as canon as I've yet to see 'every' TOS episode.(That really stinks by the way) But the sentence that immediately follows it is this:
"Leading scientists say that there is a 18% chance that Spock was gay."
Though I personally would love for this to be true, I don't think it is... Can anyone give cite/credit to this statement, or offer proof that this is true?
If you can I will be eternally grateful, and so will the thousands of slash fans. And If not could you please fix it or I'll fix it if it's not true because I nearly had an aneurism of happiness for the 2.3 seconds I thought it was true.
Thank you.
--Herbsandlemons 12:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's obviously vandalism. Chris Cunningham 14:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  What do you mean vandalism? Like someone edited the page just to be mean and/or mess with the fans?--Herbsandlemons 14:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes. Sadly all-too-common on Wikipedia. Chris Cunningham 15:13, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not quite sure what you mean by "I propose a standard for this system". If you mean a standard for the Star Trek universe, that's determined by the writers and owners of the Star Trek franchise. If you mean a standard for Wikipedia, we don't create standards for character names; we use character names in the work itself (i.e., Star Trek) or any reliably sourced interpretation of character names based on the creators of Star Trek. We can't simply impose our own interpretation on to others' creative works. If you meant your comments just as a discussion of your ideas about Star Trek names, such forum or blog-like comments are not appropriate for an article talk page. You might wish to express your ideas at the reference desk. Cresix (talk) 18:45, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vulcans (Star Trek) 

message: I do not mean to mock Spock, but I think we should replace the image with a pure Vulcan. I know that his characteristics are representitive of the vulcan race, but he's half human. Maybe Tuvok would be better.
Supernerd 10 12:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that is right. He is the most famous vulcan of any sort- anyone could recognize him. It is really racial discrimination to say that he is not vulcan enough just because he is only half vulcan. I have replaced the image and caption with Spock. --K1000 01:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps it's still worth a quick mention. The caption could state just that. Something like "Although technically half-vulcan and half-human, Spock (shown here demonstrating the Vulcan salute) was the first introduction to the Vulcan species in the Star Trek series." Also (possibly as a compromise of sorts) some of the other sections, maybe under Culture, should include images of other Vulcan characters, if even just to show that they appear to be from multiple ethnicities, or to show the variety of clothing they have worn.  Ninjasaves (talk) 04:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spock 

message: "Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry said in a 1968 interview that the idea behind pon farr was inspired by African rhinoceros' alleged mating practices, wherein a female of the species dies once every five years after mating with the entire male herd population." 
What? They die every five years? Someone please confirm or delete this!
Cratylus3 03:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the intended meaning is that a female rhino will, once every 5 years, mate with every male in the herd, then die from the strain. Try as I might, I can't find a word on the fact or fiction of this in the wild or of the story about Roddenberry. True or not, however, it should be cited, even if it (the actual biology or the story about Roddenberry) is a rumor. Otherwise, it needs to be cleaned up.  Ninjasaves (talk) 04:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Roddenberry explained this at one of the August Parties as his having pulled a gag on the interviewer. Since he *said* it, leave it in, but add notation of the gag status.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.90.148.162 (talk) 00:10, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rhinoceros 

message: The article claims that the Vulcan High Command was dissolved following the discovery of the Kir'Shara by Jonathan Archer. However, I don't think the High Command as an institution ceased to exist as there are canonical references thereto in other Trek series that take place in the future (23rd century). Maybe, it was just V'Las' High Command that was disbanded,  not the High Command per se. 161.24.19.82 11:47, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dissolution of the High Command ?

message: We must remove all Return to Tomorrow references placing Sargon’s people as settlers of Vulcan.  The Chase reveals this planet’s true biological origins.  (154.5.194.215 01:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Origins

message: Surak was the founder of the modern philosphy but not the world, so why is he listed as their founder?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.212.175 (talk) 02:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. It makes no sense. There were, of course, Vulcans before Surak; he merely founded the philosophy which was later embraced by almost all Vulcans. I'm removing it from the article. Aridd (talk) 11:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surak as Founder? 

message: I have noticed that it does not show the actual Vulcan salute, it shows the inspiration for it but does not show the salute. Here is a good picture to look at for an idea of how the Vulcan salute should look:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1328/556301623_0ff0c25c4f_m.jpg  —Preceding unsigned comment added by RBugz (talk • contribs) 00:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, even the image used in this article that is purported to be the "inspiration" is also not correct. The blessing gesture used in Judaism looks exactly as Spock uses it in Star Trek, except with two hands when blessing a crowd. Not sure why that image has survived in this article for so long considering how incorrect it is (except maybe due to Nerdfighter fanboys who seem to be confused about the Vulcan salute and their 'hand/gang sign'). — al-Shimoni (talk) 01:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vulcan Salute 

message: There is currently a line that reads "Vulcans are vegetarians, though they are known to consume seafood and were omnivores in ages past." I know about the previous omnivorous diet, but where in any canon does a vulcan eat fish? By definition (look at the appropriate wikipedia page for example), vegetarians do not eat fish (the "pesca-vegetarian" is not a form of vegetarian, it translates to "I would be a vegetarian, except I'm not because I eat fish"). So: do vulcans eat fish? I'm guessing the answer is "no" (at least for most ENT and onward vulcans), but if the answer is "yes," how do we best deal with the inaccurate use of the word "vegetarian" in cannon? Msheskin (talk) 08:55, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I recall, we're never shown Vulcans eating seafood. Contrariwise, it is repeatedly stated that Vulcans are vegetarians. The fact that animals from the planet Vulcan may be eaten by other species does not make Vulcans non-vegetarian. Aridd (talk) 11:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vulcan Diet 

message: According to Enterprise episodes "The Forge" and "Awakening", the group who called themselves "those who march under the Raptors Wing" rejected Surak ideals and launched a nuclear war of which Surak himself became a victim. It dose not take too  much imagination to figure out "those who march under the Raptors Wing" went on to become the Romulans so I have slightly rewritten the history section that deals with Surak and the Romaulans, before it said that the Romulans never rejected logic and may have had Suraks blessing, which was not the case. Starzaz (talk) 02:58, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surak and the Romulans 

message: Both of these articles appear to have very limited notabilty, and would be safer here, and also would strengthen this article in a summarize form. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:04, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I just discovered the Vulcan IDIC article, and I strongly agree that it should be merged into this one. It seems to me to have little notability even within Star Trek itself, let alone in the real world - and as such, if left unmerged, risks deletion under the fiction guidelines sooner or later. Merging into this article would be the better solution. Terraxos (talk) 00:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge in Vulcan customs articles

message: What does "meld" mean? Might it actually be "melt"? After all, it is some kind of fusion when going together with someone else's thoughts.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.141.200.110 (talk) 23:34, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I second the correctness of 'meld'.Eleven even (talk) 17:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I third the correctness of 'meld'.  Xyzzy529 (talk) 20:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Now I come fourth on that. Ha! There is in fact a whole documentary titled Mind Meld on Star Trek by Peter Jaysen. Aditya(talk • contribs) 14:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  mind meld 

message: It is very short, and would make this article more comprehensive and eliminate a stubby article that will probably stay that way. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:13, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, merge it in. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 03:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge in Vulcan High command

message: I propose merging in the planet Vulcan article, as per other Star Trek articles. It doesn't really say much of note, here it can be guaranteed to be safe from deletion and add to the main article on Vulcans. Alastairward (talk) 15:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: *
Absolutely fantastic and in-depth beginners' guide on Vulcans: one could rewrite, trim and source the whole article just based on this! Alientraveller (talk) 18:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I totally agree! - Arcayne (cast a spell) 20:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation for use 

message: Someone has marked "due to Vulcans' copper-based blood." as [citation needed]
Is this really relevant to a fictional race? Unless someone objects I will remove the tag
Mtpaley (talk) 22:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Pretty odd. I think it was actually mentioned in at least one ep of TOS. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 03:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

text: I know this thread is getting sort of old, but a couple of comments in case someone cares. McCoy clearly referred to Spock as "green-blooded" in at least one episode, and Spock bleeds green in at least one episode. I don't know that the color needs a source, but the "copper based" might. I have no doubt that copper-based is correct, but I don't have a source. Cresix (talk) 01:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

text: Could this be used as a citation: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vulcan#Physiology  It looks like there are several references to actual episodes and other information available. --Xyzzy529 (talk) 19:53, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  copper-based blood 

message: no where in here is the life span of the vulcan. --196.207.35.246 (talk) 10:32, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Life span

message: We are getting a lot of uncited - or poorly-cited - info being added to the article. We are getting definitions as to how long Vulcans live, the definitions/translations from the fictional language Vulcan. While we teeter dangerously close to in-universe writing, I am going to have to insist that we include only those bits of information that can be cited to secondary sources. This means we do not cite previous episodes for our intuitive/interpretive leaps. There have literally been hundreds of books published about every aspect of Star Trek. Surely someone can take a moment and do some research, find a solid-enough citation for use. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 15:17, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding uncited info 

message: The article needs to explain why in the new JJ Abrams film, Romulans are just as strong as the Vulcans, when, traditionally in the Star Trek cannon, unless I haven't been paying attention or just plain dumb, far as I know, the Romulans, physical strength wise, were only on the same level as humans.  Then all of a sudden in the Abrams film, a Romulan picks up Kirk by the neck as if though he were a little kid.  Please expand the article to cover that major hole, or someone please answer the question.
67.148.120.100 (talk) 11:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: (this "issue" addressed at Talk:Romulan#Needs_Expansion.2C_something_not_clear; no need for duplicate dialogue here). --EEMIV (talk) 10:32, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need explanation 

message: How come there's no mention of stoicism (the philosophy)?  JAF1970 (talk) 19:45, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What does it have to do with this article? Alastairward (talk) 20:56, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Stoicism

message: The first papagraph states that a Vulcans and or half a vulcan feature as main charaters in 3 out of 6 Star Trek series. Spock features in TOS and TAS, Tuvok in Voyager and T'pol in Enterprise. So the intro should say Vulcans feature in 4 out of 6 series. Or 3 out of 5 seires since TOS and TAS have all the same charaters.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.219.70.243 (talk) 16:52, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right. I changed the article to say that. --Kobraton (talk) 15:20, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main charaters 

message: The article states that in The City on the Edge of Forever Kirk points out to Edith that Vulcan is circling the left star in Orion's belt. I have watched this episode and checked a transcript of the episode (section noted here) from http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/28.htm.
EDITH: Why does Spock call you Captain? Were you in the war together? KIRK: We served together. EDITH: And you don't want to talk about it? Why? Did you do something wrong? Are you afraid of something? Whatever it is, let me help. KIRK: Let me help. A hundred years or so from now, I believe, a famous novelist will write a classic using that theme. He'll recommend those three words even over I love you. EDITH: Centuries from now? Who is he? Where does he come? Where will he come from? KIRK: Silly question. Want to hear a silly answer? EDITH: Yes. KIRK: A planet circling that far left star in Orion's belt. See?
I have never read anywhere that the poet Kirk is speaking of is from Vulcan, as the section of the transcript demonstrates. I vote for deletion of that portion of the article as being unsubstantial.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Historyeducator (talk • contribs) 10:16, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homeworld 

message: Looking at Vulcan ethics isn't original research, but rather something clearly mentioned and noted on multiple occasions in the various Star Trek series. Vidur10 (talk) 07:49, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethics 

message: Vidur10, the text you keep restoring (the paragraph that starts "In the Star Trek universe, Vulcans are often seen to follow a utilitarian attitude to morality...") is a textbook example of original research. Please read or re-read WP:NOR. If Star Trek episodes actually compared Vulcan ethics to utilitarianism, it would be quite appropriate to note that; however, to my knowledge, they do no such thing. The comparison to utilitarianism is simply something a Wikipedia editor invented, and needs to be kept out of the article. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 07:56, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Wrong. Your comment is either an attempt to justify original research, which is strictly ruled out by WP:NOR, or else simply reflects a confused and incorrect understanding of the policy, which you seriously need to take a more careful look at. Whether Vulcan ethics is "obviously" utilitarianism to you does not make a difference; it is still original research if there is no reliable source characterizing it in those terms. It appears that you do not have any serious case for restoring that material. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 08:15, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

text: I disagree. By definition, the term "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is utilitarian. Nevertheless, like their martial arts which has similar human counterparts, we can state that their ethical system is most similar to the human ethical system of utilitarianism. Their ethical system can be described as satisfying the preferences of the greatest number of people, even if it means that the needs of a smaller number of people are sacrificed. Then, we can evidence this with the sources I've already presented, as well as other material from the series which I will add. Vidur10 (talk) 08:27, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You just don't get it. It simply doesn't matter what you happen to think is or is not by definition utilitarian. By describing Vulcan ethics as utilitarian without a reliable source, you are engaging in original research. You have no justification for doing that under WP:NOR. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 08:32, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  There isn't a direct quote from Star Trek explicitly stating that it is utilitarian, but plenty of moral philosophy books and indeed even a Supreme Court stated that the Vulcan axiom is utilitarian. Nevertheless, I've already outlined, above, an alternative course of action which will put your worries to rest. Vidur10 (talk) 08:38, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  The bottom line is that you need to provide a reliable source directly stating that Vulcan ethics is a form of utilitarianism (TV episodes that do not mention utilitarianism don't count). If you cannot provide a suitable reliable source, the material will simply have to be removed. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 08:40, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vulcan ethics 

message: I have not been involved in editing this page, as I know very little about Vulcans and Startrek.  However, I wanted to point out that the photo of a "vulcan salute" at the bottom of the article is not correct.  Please look at the images in a Google.com search for vulcan salute to see Spock (Leanord Nimoy) doing it correctly.  I suggest that an active editor here replace the photo with something more appropriate.  Personally, I really like the photos of spock doing it.  It is exactly like the Jewish priestly blessing which is stilled employed today by rabbis, by parents blessing their children, etc.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Howardlhoffman (talk • contribs) 19:23, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vulcan Salute 

message: ...and resolve the half decade of this morass of editor original research (or plagiarism or fabrication). This article, in this blog-state since at least 2012, should be culled to just its sourced material. It is an insult to the notion that this site is an encyclopedia. If we want a fan wiki, we would go to one. 67.184.62.39 (talk) 14:36, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  STOP ADDING WP:OR TO ARTICLE 

message: Is Vulcan a polysynthetic language? Is there any die-hard Star Trek and linguistics fans who can assert me on this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ganeshdevisettin (talk • contribs) 14:30, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say no. Mark Okrand created the Klingon language and decided to go all-out and write an entire book, and it is clearly plysynthetic. He never did that with Vulcan, so it is hard to say since we don't have a book on the language. We only see Vulcan translated a few times, most notably in the first few feature films, and the word-count spoken tends to match the word-count in the captioned translation. For example, when Saavik says to Spock upon meeting Kirk in ST:II (and I'm using phoenetics here) "eesh veeni...comi" translated to "He's so...human". If you listen to the scene, Spock's reply is equally 1:1 spoken word vs translation. StarHOG (Talk) 15:56, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language