Talk:Romano Prodi/Archive 1

message: This needs to be discussed in more detail - why, how, result (i.e. how was D'Alema chosen?)
I do not think it is correct to discuss D'Alema on the Prodi page. Technically speaking Prodi's fall was caused by the PCI (partito communisti Italiani) led by Fausto Bertinotti who failed to support Prodi in a confidence vote in parliment. It would be misrepresentative  however to potray the PCI as the single cause. Prodi's "Fall" started with a fall in popularity of the coalition. Prodi entered office on the eve of the introduction of the Euro. At the time he was elected it was expected that Italy would be left out of the Euro due to not meeting the economic requirements. Prodi went straight in Austere budgets that allowed Italy to enter the Euro, but which lost him a lot of popularity. By foccusing on economic issues Prodi was percieved, or potrayed, as not being left enougth and became a scapegoat (maybe justified, this is POV) for the coalitions loss of popularity. Having said that there was reluctance to "sack" him but the coalition jumped at the opportunity of making Prodi Italy's candidate for Europe. Prodi was an ideal candidate and it appeared to be a good all round solution. 
His government could count only on a tiny majority, and "extreme left" parties such as the PRC were necessary for its continuation. Also, the largest party of that government was the Partito Democratico della Sinistra (Leftist Democrats' Party), the "new incarnation" of the former Communist Party.
In spite of this, Prodi had never been a truly leftist man: his affiliation had been with the now dissolved Christian Democratic party, and after its fall he never founded a large alternative party or became strongly affiliated with one. Because of that, he was a bit of an "outsider". His supporters saw him as the "wise old man" that was most suited for pulling together an extremely diverse coalition of parties, but the top brass of the PDS (Massimo d'Alema above all) viewed him as an obstacle for the long-awaited rise to power of the "true left", that had to remain in the opposition since 1948 (Once, Christian Democrat prime minister Moro tried to strike a deal with the Communist Party, but was killed before he could realize it). Thus, support for Prodi was withdrawn and a new government with higher PDS influence formed. This proved to be a largely misbegotten decision, however, as that executive didn't last long and suffered a huge defeat in the following elections against Silvio Berlusconi --81.208.36.87 13:51, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prodi's fall in 1998 

message: What's the buzz about Prodi being a Bilderberger, do you have evidences for that or is just YACT (yet another conspiracy theory) ???
* He seemed to have at least participated on a meeting in the 1980s, when he was just a professor at the University of Bologna:  (it's written in Italian). --Angelo 17:06, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just cospiration theory ??? 

message: Can someone clarify his party affiliation? It's not mentioned in the article and I don't know enough about Italian politics to fix it ... --Cam 16:53, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Party affiliation

message: Ditto. He is not Prime Minister yet.
Kingsbury 18:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Couldn't his party still fire him before a new government is formed? I think we should observe the forms here; a legislature was elected, not Prodi personally (except in his own constituency, of course). And there's this thing about WP not being a crystal ball. --Trovatore 02:41, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prime Minister???? 

message: The text claims Prodi was a "visiting professor ... at Stanford Research Institute". SRI International does not have "visiting professors"; it does no teaching. Could someone please clarify what was Prodi's association with SRI and when?  If it was after 1970 then we should call it "SRI International" rather than "Stanford Research Institute". --Trovatore 17:43, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've fixed this by making it vaguer and thus less likely to be wrong, but it would be nice if someone had more information. this link says it was in 1968, so I've made the link to Stanford Research Institute (which of course is a redir to SRI International). --Trovatore 18:13, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: SRI

message: Sorry for my bad english. In the article is written:
In April 2006, a British MEP for London, Gerard Batten (UKIP), cited allegations by a London constituent and former FSB agent, Lieutenant-Colonel Alexander Litvinenko, that Prodi had been the KGB's "man in Italy", demanding an inquiry into the allegations. Batten told the European Parliament that Litvinenko had been told by FSB deputy chief, General Anatole Trofimov, that "Romano Prodi is our man (in Italy)". According to Brussels-based newspaper the EU Reporter on 3 April 2006, "another high-level source, a former KGB operative in London, has confirmed the story". Among Litvinenko's most serious claims is that Prodi assisted in the protection of KGB operatives allegedly involved in the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II in 1981.
If I write that Prodi was driving the UFO that crashed in 1947 in New Mexico, and that was him who shot JFK, and that this information was given to me by the brother of the cousin of a former CIA agent is considered NPOV? :) 
The Prodi-KGB connection was an invention of the Italian right-wing party, release in every electoral campaign in the last 6 years by the Berlusconi's newspaper (Il Giornale, Il Foglio, ecc.. in the past they use also some fake proof) and repeated by other european media ad ally of the italian right party. The "Mitrokin commission", that must investigate Kgb activities in Italy, who chairman is Paolo Guzzanti (senator of the Berlusconi's Go Italy party and journalist of Berlusconi's newspaper Il Giornale), didn't found any real proofs involving Prodi (or other left party leader) with the KGB, but using some quibble (the right-party member didn't go to the final meeting, so the meeting is continuos postponed) they delay the final report so they can use the Prodi-Kgb connection also in this election.
:Gerard Batten, is not a member of the italian right-wing party, nor Lieutenant-Colonel Alexander Litvinenko, General Anatole Trofimov and the EU Reporter. Instead, for example, the story about that seance, during wich the name "Gradoli" came out (Gradoli was the street where Aldo Moro was inprisoned) smells of KGB one mile away. Raffaele.castagno 15:16, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  in the story of Gradoli is also involved Mario Baldassarri http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Baldassarri_%28politico%29 that is a very important member of the right party Alleanza Nazionale and a vice-minister of Berlusconi gov... maybe was him the KGB... here his audition http://www.parlamento.it/bicam/terror/stenografici/steno35.htm
Well, folks, all that stuff is definitely nonsense, as it was not proved by the parliamentary commission created for the issue (the "Mitrokhin commission"). There are plenty of books and articles dismantling and even criticizing all that, but as I can see somebody still tries to claim that bunch of falsehoods as "somewhat encyclopedical". The groundless theories and theorems about people of any kind ain't no notability, isn't it?!? Thanks, hoping of course to have that paragraph removed ASAP. --Angelo 00:33, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia is not a blog. Please calm down, the electoral campaign is over. Okay? --Angelo 15:04, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Sincerely, it doesn't seem to have had relevant space in the media, as the news was published specifically by "Il Giornale", right-wing newspaper owned by Berlusconi's brother, Paolo. I don't think it should be part of the article, since it's not correct to defame anyone in an encyclopedia using unproven, worthless allegations. This is an encyclopedia, maybe we lost the focus point: there's no mention of the IRI and the Minister of Industry times, and Prodi's period as head European commission hasn't been deepened at all. Let's include the documented facts rather than point out on claims, falsehoods and rubbish (it's a general point of view of mine, of course, to be considered valid for every articles, regardless the political side). Thanks. --Angelo 18:40, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And did other newspapers not even report that Il Giornale was reporting this? I'm not so sure you can ignore a major paper just because it leans a little right of center (taking your word for that as I haven't really read Il Giornale—from time to time I read Corriere Canadese which is an offshoot of La Repubblica; I'd rather read Corriere della Sera but it's too expensive here). If it was an issue a significant fraction of the public knew about and thought about, then I'd say it deserves some sort of mention. --Trovatore 01:31, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a look at the Google News results  if you want one more confirmation: it's all "Il Giornale" and "La Padania" (official newspaper of the Lega Nord party). --Angelo 09:56, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Respected by you, of course. Respected in italy, yes. Respected in Europe? Only becaus it has many readers. Best journal in Italy? There's no such. If you are italian, you must read "Libero" and "Il Corriere della Sera" and many others, and keep in mind who's the owner: the owners of "Libero" are close allies of Berlusconi, while the owners of "Il corriere della sera" are left-aligned. However, having read most of the Berlusconi's electoral declarations and booklets and noticed how many hidden lies are there, nowdays I trust that "Il corriere della sera" more. Ok, let's not start this discussion all over again. --DavidAlexandrov 21:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Corriere della Sera is historically centrist, it has often suggested to vote for the Christian Democracy, and a single endorsement doesn't make it leftist. There are so many leftwing newspapers here in Italy, but the Corriere is not amongst them. Anyway, Libero and Il Giornale aren't that respected even here in Italy. The two main newspapers are Corriere della Sera and La Repubblica. --Angelo 22:18, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  KGB? 

message: Both sides need to grow up and find a compromise. The argument that the allegations aren't notable because they were pushed mainly by Il Giornale can't be taken seriously; Il Giornale is a newspaper of wide circulation (you can find it in convenience stores right on my street, here in Toronto) that reports real news (so don't bother pointing out that a lot of people read Weekly World News as well). You can't say the topic doesn't deserve mention just because you don't like a paper's politics.
On the other hand, clearly the allegations have not been taken as credible by any wide section of the populace, and there doesn't appear to be much (or any) hard evidence. That needs to be mentioned as well, and the section needs to be kept short, to avoid reporting on it out of proportion to its importance.
Finally, those who want to contribute on this issue, LOG IN already. Contributing as an IP is OK for casual changes, but when you're involved in a controversy, people really ought to know how to get in touch with you. --Trovatore 20:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Please stop revert warring on KGB allegations

message: Because of the intolerable behavior by IP addresses on this article, I have requested semi-protection at the Administrators' Noticeboard. --Trovatore 22:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: semi-protection requested

message: Please work out your differences here instead of edit warring. · Katefan0 (scribble)/poll 20:11, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: Isn't this his nickname? If so, should probably be mentioned...Stevage 15:33, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. --Angelo 15:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Goodie - I just wasn't sure. Stevage 13:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Il Professore 

message: Who is the one who wrote .. that Prodi is a "Mortadella" ?
Is Wikipedia policy to include insults and derogatory nick-names 
in the articles ? I am more and more disillusioned with Wikipedia.
:Wikipedia can include derogatory nicknames if they are well-known.  It is made clear in the sentence that it's an insulting nickname.  According to the BBC Profile, he's only called that because he's from Bologna, not because he resembles a mortadella in any way. ... discospinster talk 14:14, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  INSULTING  

message: I’ve requested expansion of this section because it is currently a tiny stub, fleshed out with a couple of things that happened in the EU during his period of office. —Ian Spackman 15:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like I didn’t save my change, which also involved a modification to the section title. I’ll do it now. —Ian Spackman 11:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  President of the European Commission (1999–2004) 

message: “ Later, other Italian members of the European Commission claimed that Prodi had invented this story to conceal the real source of the tip, which they believed to have originated in the Italian extraparliamentary left.”
I think we have a muddle or two here. The Guardian articled referenced doesn’t seem to reference a specific claim that the tip originated in the Italian extraparliamentary left. (Notwithstanding that it would, on the face of, it seem to be a plausible claim to make.) More precisely it doesn’t mention “members of the European Commission” as a source: rather Italian senator Paolo Guzzanti, who seems to have been a member of an Italian parliamentary commission investigating the issue in 1999. —Ian Spackman 12:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The séance 

message: Everyone,
please refrain from changing text or the infobox in advance of the official facts. We went through this back in April/May when Berlusconi's government fell. The practice, which I assume is being followed this time, is that the prime minister remains in office (even if in a caretaker capacity) until a new one takes office. --Trovatore 20:44, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the case when a change of Government is the result of an election (ala the US Presidential System) before the new Government takes power. Prodi's resignation has been accepted by the President, in this case not due to an election, and therefore the position is now vaccant, presuming the resignation is with immediate effect, which is usually the case. This means that one or both of the Deputy Prime Ministers will assume office in a temporary capacity within the next few days. Until this point, the post is vaccant (for example the way the Presidency was vaccant in between the resignation of Nixon and the appointment of Ford.). 81.77.61.102 21:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're wrong. Prodi has caretaker capacities (ordinaria amministrazione, as we call it in Italy) till a new government is appointed. Anyway, this doesn't care because President Napolitano has yet to accept Prodi's resignations (he still didn't, and he won't take a decision before having made official talks with the political forces) --Angelo 21:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Getting ahead of the facts

message: :In spite of the fear of many senators (including Franca Rame, wife of Nobel Prize winner Dario Fo)
I removed the mention of Franca Rame because I feel it, especially the bit about her being the wife of a Nobel Prize winner is irrelevant/unnecessary. It seems to me that it doesn't really add anything. If the nobel prize has been for peace, perhaps but it's for literature (I'm not trying to demean literature but in this context, it's irrelevant. If it has been a vote on something related to literature then it would obviously be different) Nil Einne 12:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevance - nobel prize 

message: Am I the only one who feels the article doesn't adequetly explain or direct the reader to an appropriate article to understand what the vote was about? There is some mention about Lebanon and Afghanistan and about how it's difficult to achieve a consensus but it's not clear to me what the vote was about. Was there a specific statement? Was it just a vote on whether they approve the current foreign policy? What? Nil Einne 12:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Much more about Afghanistan than Lebanon, and some references about the doubling of Caserma Ederle in Vicenza. Actually, the Senate voted in order to either approve or reject D'Alema's speech (, in Italian) on government foreign policy, and rejected it. This CBC News article explains it in a fairly comprehensive but synthetical way . --Angelo 15:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that. I think the article may be good enough now. Since they were voting on the speech, it's difficult to summarise what they were voting on but the article is clear enough now that they were voting on the speech which is probably good enough (in the past it just said something like they were voting on his foreign policy) Nil Einne 15:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign policy 

message: The article is inaccurate about the resignation, because it was never accepted, and the government is still in charge. The cabinet that will seek a new confidence vote next week, will be the same, and not a new one. --Twilight 13:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is inaccurate because the resignation has been accepted, and the confidence vote will be for another government, led by Prodi again.--Uyet Ustranimii 23:27, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're absolutely wrong. The confidence vote is for the cabinet currently in charge, not for another one. ,  are good sources in English. If you understand Italian, you can find here what President Napolitano exactly announced . --Angelo 23:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resignation 

message: There's currently a disturbance at the current Canadian prime minister's article, Stephen Harper, regarding the inclusion of the head of state in the article's infobox, and, following that, on all previous Canadian prime ministers' articles; currently the Canadian series is the only one, as far as I can tell, where the relevant head of state is not listed in the infobox.
As this article, and all those for previous Italian prime ministers, list the head of state in the infobox, I'm wondering how the decision to do so was reached, and if this practice should or should not be the same for all PMs' articles. It seems odd to me that one series of PM articles would be different to all the rest.
Opinions are welcome; needed actually. The discussion is taking place at Talk:Stephen Harper#Infobox -- include GG and monarch?. --G2bambino 15:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Being an Italian who lived in Canada, I know both system, and I believe Canada's political system cannot be compared with Italy's, at least about this point. Canada's official head of state is the Queen of England (which is not Canadian), who is represented by a Governor General (usually not a political figure), who is not elected but formally appointed by the Queen under suggestion by the PM. The President of the Italian Republic (non-partisan but very political office, usually filled by a politician - former politician) has a little more powers than a Canadian GG, is elected by the Parliament and is fully recognized by Italians as head of state and top representative of the country. --Angelo 16:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Head of state in infobox 

message: Substituted at 15:42, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment