Talk:Alejo Carpentier

message: Hey group!
Definitely going to have to get back into the swing of Wikipedia again! I checked out the selection of books in Koerner's library and Alejo Carpentier actually has about TWO SHELVES of books(!!); either by him or about him. I'll start this bibliography off with three that I picked up today and we can all add to it as we go. Advice if you haven't done a Wikipedia project like this: Always keep a record of EVERYTHING you come across in a book (ie: page numbers, sources, correct quotes, etc...) It's a waste of your time to have to go back and find a book for one quote on one page that you think may have been used out of context, etc... Also, if you use an indirect source, you may want to consider finding the primary source (online or in the library). Always easier when you know exactly what the original author was talking about. --Katie322 (talk) 04:36, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: Hey group! It might take me a while to get into the Wikipedia swing of things considering I've never done this, but in the time being here are some articles I found that may be of some use to us.
1) Rae, Caroline. "In Havana and Paris The Musical Activities of Alejo Carpentier" pp. 373-395 Volume 89, Number 3, 2008 Music and Letters .
2) Cohen, Deborah N., "Retracing The Lost Steps The Cuban Revolution, the Cold War, and Publishing Alejo Carpentier in the United States". pp. 81-108 Volume 3, Number 1, Spring 2003 CR: The New Centennial Review.
3) Kaup, Monika. "Becoming-Baroque Folding European Forms into the New World Baroque with Alejo Carpentier". pp. 107-149 Volume 5, Number 2, Fall 2005 CR: The New Centennial Review.
4) Rodriguez, EJ. "Alejo Carpentier's search for Amerindian and African origins". RLC-REVUE DE LITTERATURE COMPAREE 76 (2): 167-177 APR-JUN 2002.
5) Stimson, Frederick. "Alejo Carpentier, Cuban Novelist". Books Abroad, Vol. 33, No. 2 pp. 149-150.
6) Henighan, Stephan. "Two Paths to the Boom: Carpentier, Asturias, and the Performative Split". The Modern Language Review, Vol. 94, No. 4 pp. 1009-1024.
7) Timossi, J. "The marvellous royal man - Alejo Carpentier". CUADERNOS HISPANOAMERICANOS (649-50): 21-27 JUL-AUG 2004.
8) Kefala, Eleni. " The Dialectics of Heresy and Authority in Borges and Carpentier". pp. 342-349 Volume 122, Number 2, March 2007 (Hispanic Issue) MLN.
9) Firmat, GP. "Ese idioma: Alejo Carpentier's tongue-ties". SYMPOSIUM-A QUARTERLY JOURNAL IN MODERN LITERATURES 61 (3): 183-197 FAL 2007.
(this one seems to have some interesting facts about Carpentier's birth language which may help clear up a few issues brought up in discussion surrounding where Carpentier was born. exciting stuff!)
And then some books:
I know this first book is on the wiki bibliography already, but it seems that if it's given a careful read we could get a lot of information out of it.
1) Shaw, Donald. Alejo Carpentier. Boston : Twayne Publishers, c1985.
2) Rodríguez, Alexis Márquez. Nuevas Lecturas de Alejo Carpentier. Caracas : Fondo Editorial de la Facultad de Humanidades y Educación, Universidad Central de Venezuela, 2004.
3) Navarro, Gabriel. Música y escritura en Alejo Carpentier. Alicante : Universidad de Alicante, 1999.
4) Selma, José. El 'Ultimo' Carpentier. Las Palmas : EXCMA. Mancomunidad de Cabildos, Plan Cultural, 1978.
He seemed to write a lot on music, something the article doesn't go into detail with. We may want to look into that. --Josiemitchell (talk) 07:37, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliografía 

message: Libros:
Blanco, Luis. Alejo Carpentier : tientos y differencias, 1970
Gómez Mayo, Edmundo. Construcción y lenguaje en Alejo Carpentier
Gonzalez, Eduardo . "Alejo Carpentier: El Tiempo Del Hombre". Caracas: Monte Avila Editores, 1978(talk) 06:02, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliografía: para el 20 de enero 

message: Hey group!
Here are some article ideas that we can think about while reading through our sources:
-Add a music section (credit goes to Josie for this one!)
-Sections on magical realism and baroque style after the themes section?
-A section on Carpentier's connections to/thoughts about Haiti and Cuba (or other geographic regions)?
-Style of writing (we could look at a few select works and break them down)
-More quotes (?)
-Alphabetize the 'Further Reading' section
Feel free to add more ideas to this list. Also, if you have added something/completed something from the list, you're welcome to add a green 'done' checkmark by typing the word 'done' between double sets of curly brackets:  That way the rest of the group will know what has been crossed off the list.
--Katie322 (talk) 03:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Ideas 

message: I think this article is already very close to GA standard.
For a long time it was believed that he was born in Havana This is very vague. Who believed? His mother? His sister? His friends? The literary scholars? All the people in Iceland? All humans? In what time period did they believe this? Until the day after he died? Until 10 years after he died?
the poor of the island What island? I guess Cuba. But this is not explicit.
surrealists seems to be an important phenomenon. What is it? Can we get a wiki-link? (I tried surrealism after looking up Desnos.
Link to the Communist Party journal ?
In 1966, he settled in Paris The last mentioned man is Márquez. he is supposed to refer to Carpentier?
His remains were returned to Cuba Does returned imply some kind of origination? The article says he was born in Lausanne.
I think two sentences, with a reference for each, is too much about the Baroque in an article about Carpentier. I copied the second one to the article about the Baroque.
I don't think Europe is an identity; European?
How is stuff divided between style and themes? The baroque inspiration is mentioned in both.
--Ettrig (talk) 07:14, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Carpentier's dual identity in both Europe and Latin America I interpreted this as saying that he had both European and Lating American identities. When rereading I think it is just obscure. It says he had two identities in Europe and America. It does not say what the identities are, nor how the identities relate to the continents. --Ettrig (talk) 05:15, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Some comments

message: First of all, I would like to congratulate you all on the wonderful work that you have put into the article. The page certainly looks much better now than it did in December. So great work on that. But still, there are, as with any article, a number of things that could be improved. And of course, if you are missing any information at all that you are aware of, you should add it to the article. I cannot claim to be an expert of Alejo Carpentier – my only real experience with magic realism comes from reading the works of Gabriel García Márquez and Rudolfo Ananya – so I will be unaware if any information is missing.
;Lead  (though add more/edit if you have the time)
The main issue with the lead is that it needs to be expanded. A good lead section should summarize the entire article in two to four paragraphs, depending on the length of the article. For this article, I recommend summarizing it in three paragraphs of length approximately that of this section. They could include one paragraph on his life, one on the themes in his works (including a mention of a couple of the most famous ones), and another on the styles of his works.
;Life
Make sure that every piece of information is cited properly. That is a critical matter for GAN
Also, I have a number of other comments:
*Could you explain why he did not complete his architecture degree?
*What degree did he actually complete?
*What newspapers did he work for?
*Did contemporary critics also think Ecué-Yamba-O was superficial?
*Robert Desnos was a "poet journalist"? I don't believe I have ever heard that phrase before.
*I would think that a number of Carpentier's works are available in translation. I don't know if it is worth singling out La música en Cuba.
*Is From 1945 to 1959 he lived in Venezuela, which is the obvious inspiration for the unnamed South American country in which much of The Lost Steps takes place your own original research? Or does a source say that? Also, could you remove "obvious"? If it is true, it is true.
;Themes
Remember the importance of citations, especially for the 'Lo real maravilloso' paragraph. That is the only real flaw I can find with the section. If you can expand any of this, that would be well appreciated.
;Famous Works
Is Kingdom of the World Carpentier's only work that is major enough to merit a subjection? Also, do any of those books have a Wikipedia article?
;Style
The Baroque section is a bit large. Perhaps it could be split into multiple paragraphs?  Also, again, could any of this be expanded?
;Quotes
These should probably moved over to q:Alejo Carpentier (which should probably be created if it hasn't been already)
;References
*This ref is broken.
*Format this ref using .
*Could you add ISBNs for as many of the references as possible? 
I checked the UBC library search and an ISBN database but couldn't find more than are already there. Is there a better place to be looking? Katie322 (talk) 06:12, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments from [[User:NuclearWarfare|NuclearWarfare]] 

message: That was some really helpful advice we just got. Neat!
I think the best way to go about improving the article based off of what NuclearWarfare has suggested is to work in his comments as they apply to your own section of the article and as for things that were not assigned to each person (aka no one was assigned the lead nor quotes) we should decide who will oversee those.
Lead
I think NuclearWarfare has a really good point about the lead. That shit needs to be really strong! I'd be willing to edit it, but I think because it's a summary of everyone's sections, we all should keep an eye on it and add what we find important.
 
Famous Works
How do we feel about having a blurb on El Reino de este Mundo? It does have its own wiki page. I know Musica en Cuba does not, so I went ahead and added that blurb. It's a tad long, so I may cut it down still. Thoughts?
Quotes
And if someone wants to jump in on organizing quotes? How do people feel about including direct quotes from Carpentier, or do those belong on his wikiquote page? 
Further Reading
Maybe someone wouldn't mind organizing the further reading section? Alphabetize it?  I don't know, that may be overkill.
References
It seems like we have loads of Navarro and Wakefield, we should probably get some other stuff in there. For you guys that are doing "Life" sections, are there other books/authors that we can reference? The more references, the more legit our article!--Josiemitchell (talk) 16:32, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hey Group Group! 

message: The photo is flagged as incorrectly licensed. --Ettrig (talk) 04:39, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo

message: O Hi there Group!, 
How is everyone? I know I'm kinda procrastinating my final paper right now. But yea, Jezhotwells had some really good feedback on our article. Besides the issue with the photo, we mainly just need some tighter editing. I looked into the Copy Editing Guild and there's a backlog of about 8,000 articles. So it might be out of the question to ask someone to look at it within our time frame. If we have the time we might want to go through ourselves and clean some phrases, grammar, etc. Jezhotwells had some specific writing stuff he commented on, so look at that I suppose. 
As for the photo I know Katie has been looking into that. Maybe we just need to find another separate photo and write up our own rationale? Then we can have the text box below giving the photo's place and date like what Jezhotwells was describing. That might be easier than tracking down the uploader of the current image and all that. Thoughts?
Keep up the good fight!--Josiemitchell (talk) 21:37, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I will take a look at the photos tonight or tomorrow and will see if I can fix that problem for you.  If I have time I'll also do a copyedit. Mike Christie (talk) 21:48, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I know that I want a 'Mike Christie' shirt, haha!  Thank-you so much for your copy-edit and overall help!  We will be double-timing this effort as a group!  Also, thanks to Josie for putting the call out for a copy-editor!  Alright guys, let's do this shiznat! :) Katie322 (talk) 06:34, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second wind 

message: I've modified the image (see :File:Alejo Carpentier.jpg) to give a more specific fair use rationale.  I'm not an image expert, but I think this will be good enough for GA as the subject is no longer alive. Mike Christie (talk) 00:34, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for editing this, Mike Christie!  We, as well, are not image experts by any means, but to me the rationale makes sense: no free-use images could be found AND the subject is dead soo.....self-explanatory in my eyes!  We'll see if it pulls through!  Thank-you! Katie322 (talk) 06:37, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for the image 

message: I'll add notes here as I copyedit.  Not all of these are going to be necessary for GA; these are just points that occur to me as I go through.
* Early life section
** The date of birth wasn't included; I've added it but it needs a citation.  The names of his parents were given but not cited; I've moved things around so it looks as if they're named in Belnap/Wakefield, but I don't know if that's the case.  Could you make sure the given citation does cover those facts, or add a new citation?
**:This is now cited. Mike Christie (talk) 21:36, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The two ideas are related, but there is a fine line which seperates the 'marvellous' that Carpentier incorporates into his writing versus the 'magic' that Márquez adds to his (basically the improbable vs. the impossible, to put it in very simplified terms).  I agree that the first link shouldn't be there as it is confusing and so I removed it.Katie322 (talk) 18:51, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I traded what was there for your suggestion, word for word.  I hope that's okay.  It made more sense. Let me know if there's issues there with using your exact suggested sentence.Katie322 (talk) 18:51, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that's fine, but it's still not cited. Mike Christie (talk) 01:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyediting notes 

message: Almost everything I commented on is fixed, with one exception: the sentences "Carpentier's own compositions made him an important part of the contemporary Cuban musical landscape, but he also studied the origins and political nuances of Cuban music. His devotion to the adaptations of European artistic styles into Latin American music styles can also be seen in his admiration for Afro-Cuban musical themes." are still uncited. 
This looks much better now.  Good luck with the GA review. Mike Christie (talk) 01:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  One last point 

message: A suggestion on how to cite the major works: if you have a reference that lists the major works, I'd suggest adding a single footnote to the lead sentence of that section -- the one that says "Carpentier's major works include:".  That would avoid adding a ref to every line in the list. Mike Christie (talk) 11:07, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major works citation 

message: Since Carpentier had a French father but grew up in Cuba, his last name has two possible pronunciations (French and Spanish)--it would be great if someone would clarify in the lede which pronunciation is preferred. Thanks. Aristophanes68 (talk) 18:30, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation needed 

message: Robert Desnos may have been working as a journalist when he helped Carpentier to escape, but he is remembered more as a poet, political activist and member of the Surrealists. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 00:17, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robert Desnos  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: So...a bit strange that no mention is made, anywhere, of Carpentier's lifelong (false) claims of being Cuban-born (rather, we get "he strongly identified as Cuban throughout his life" lol)...nor do we hear anything whatsoever of the controversies surrounding everything from his arguable cultural appropriations, to his support of the Castro regime. The article seems entirely sanitized of anything but an official, approved narrative.
The introductory section, for instance, makes all sorts of statements--many explicitly subjective (ok, let's be honest: fawning), in non-encyclopaedic style--without a single citation or footnote.
Just wondering if anyone's paying attention. ;-) 
Withnail68 (talk) 03:22, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  So few footnotes, so much hagiography