Talk:Jack-o'-lantern

message: According to dictionary.com, the correct spelling of this carved pumpkin is "jack-o'-lantern", not "jack o'lantern" or "Jack O'Lantern" or any such. - Brian Kendig 20:07, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: This may, indeed, be true according to dictionary.com but it is my understanding that Jack O'Lantern was, for some unknown reason, removed from heaven and sent into darkness with only a gord or a pumpkin with a lump of coal.  You can assume that he must have carved it to release the light from the burning coal. Curt Sigdestad — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.133.184.218 (talk) 21:56, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The dictionaries may use "jack-o'-lantern," but that is the most ridiculous of all the spellings (apostrophe hyphen? wtf?) and I had never seen it until I came to the article here.  I think any of the other variations is better: jack-o-lantern,  jack'o'lantern, or Jack O'Lantern.Thoralor (talk) 06:13, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling

message: There is no evidence that jack-o'-lanterns were used in Halloween festivities in Ireland or Britain before the 20th century. Many histories of Halloween make the claim that they were, but none offers any pre-20th century documentation. See the quotation from David J. Skal in the article. — Walloon 04:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that is what I was writing, and you deleted me.  The vegetable part seems to be an American innovation. But the story of Jack is firmly set in old Irish folklore and probably not connected with Halloween. Let's face the fact, that before electricity and before batteries, flaming lanterns were in very common usage, for how else would folk walk around on a moonless night! My reading on the subject is that Halloween wan not celebrated in Britain and that it connects with the Roman Catholic feast day of all souls and therefore celebrated in Ireland.  It is also connected with the Irish festival of Samhain, which is the first day of winter on the old Irish calender. It never went Australia or New Zealand, which all but proves that it was not celebrated in Britain at all.  Though it is beginning to catch on there due to the dominance of American culture. MelForbes 11:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Has any historian offered a pre-20th century source documenting that "In ancient Ireland lighted lanterns were a feature of the Halloween festival"? (And what's with your rewriting the words in the direct quotations I used?) — Walloon 14:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Halloween comes from the ancient celebration of Samhain, which was the first day of Winter in Ireland.  I have read some books on the subject but unfortunately they are back in the library right now. See here origins of Halloween complete wit bibliography. MelForbes 23:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I looked at it. The author's only mention of jack-o'-lanterns is, "The folks who were abroad in the night imitating the fairies would sometimes carry turnips carved to represent faces. This is the origin of our modern Jack-o-lantern." But like so many other authors, she offers no footnote source for that claim. As I said, documentation of such claims is wanting. — Walloon 18:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Just to repeat, regarding an addition made today to the article (and removed): there is no known pre-20th century documentation of carved vegetable lanterns being associated with Halloween in Britain or Ireland. See the article itself for more information. — Walloon 16:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I have now found pre-20th century documentation of the practice of carving lanterns to scare people in Britain. The reference is made by Jabez Allies in a book published in 1840. But there is no mention of Halloween and the lantern is not called a 'Jack-O-Lantern', this innovation (of combining vegetable carvting, the Jack-O-Lantern nomeclature & Halloween night) appears to have originated in the U.S. Huxley10 (talk) 09:32, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Ancient tradition?

message: Films about Jack O'Lanterns, etc? Just a thought..
--Elín 00:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps a link to the upcoming film "Trick R Treat"? I see there's an entry on it.  Jack O'Lanterns figure heavily in the plot.  — 76.80.112.235 00:39, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Jack O' My Lantern" is 1880 short story by Joel Chandler Harris told in pseudo black dialect in Uncle Rhemus series.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.115.28 (talk) 18:42, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you mean Uncle Remus and "Jacky-My-Lantern". The "jacky-my-lantern" in that story refers to a will-o'-the-wisp type phenomenon near a swamp, and not to a carved vegetable lantern. — Walloon 00:03, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As a (proud) American, I find it scandalous that no one has mentioned Ichabod Crain out of Washington Irving's Knickerbocker Tales', "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow".  Probably the best Hallowe'en story out there after 150 years or more of trying.  Definitely a cultural-historical landmark for this article.Daniel Sparkman (talk) 19:52, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural References? 

message: Has anyone documented a shift in Jack-O-Lanterns from evil, mischievous grins to jolly smily faces?  I mean how scary is stuff like this: ?  Is this what Halloween was 50 years ago? -Rolypolyman 23:56, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. As seen in this museum gallery of Halloween cards from the early 20th century, both types of jack-o'-lanterns have been popular. — Walloon 01:05, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Great reference.  Thanks! -Rolypolyman 15:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultural shifts

message: The section on how to carve a jack-o'-lantern has been removed under the WIkipedia rule: Wikipedia is not a manual:
:While Wikipedia has descriptions of people, places, and things, Wikipedia articles should not include instructions, advice (legal, medical, or otherwise) or suggestions, or contain "how-to"s. This includes tutorials, walk-throughs, instruction manuals, game guides, and recipes.
— Walloon 12:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: How-to instructions on carving

message: I don't have enough to include this in the article, but in elementary school a teacher taught us that the popularity in North America of the Jack-O-Lantern is related to warding off indian attcaks on settlers smallholdings.
Maybe someone has more/enough on this to include it?
In many areas in North America, late October brought with it a period of warmer weather, used by indian tribes as a last chance to atack settlers before winter set in and travel became more difficult.  It is from this that, in North America, this period of warmer weather is called "indian summer".
Seeing lit Jack-o-lanterns in cabin windows, and having no idea what they were, the indians are supposed to have assumed that they were evil spirits and moved on.  Noticing that houses with Jack-o-lanterns avoided attack other settlers, even those with no cultural traditions associated with this time of year, started carving jack-o-lanterns and placing them in their windows.
While this is a plausible explanation or its popularity in North America, it does not, of course, explain the origin of the Jack-o-lantern.
I have no evidence to support this, but just thinking things through logically, in the Northern hemisphere October tend to be a very dark month.  Nights are getting longer, it is a rainy (cloudy) month and there is no snow on the ground to reflect what little available light there is.  
A light left in the window of a cabin could well have been important to help one find his way home to his cabin.
If, as the article suggests, pumpkins and other vegetables had earlier been used as homemade lanterns, it is logical that imigrant settlers might have continued to make these.  As the need for these would have coincided with the various traditional celebrations of the season, it makes some sense that they might have been incorpurated into he traditions of these celebrations.
212.93.97.131 07:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine. Just find some primary documentation to support this theory you heard from your elementary school teacher. — Walloon 07:38, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah more made up nonsense!   I rest my case. jcleary (talk) 12:59, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Jack-O-Lantern and Indian Summer 

message: Anyone interested in exploring the idea of a Wikiproject for Halloween kindly contact me on my talk page.  Thank you.--otherlleft (talk) 21:03, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject Halloween 

message: The folklore section is an unsourced narrative.  Is it better to remove or dig up some sources?--otherlleft (talk) 03:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Folklore 

message: Pumpkin Carving redirects to Jack-o'-lantern, but shouldn't it be the other way round seeing as it's refered to Pumpkin Carving all over the world, and jack-o-lantern in just North America?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Samuelhale (talk • contribs) 16:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirect

message: Somebody's being such a wit by changing 'pumpkin' to 'watermelon' and adding references to cheesecake.  A mod might wish to keep a closer eye on this page until the season is over.
Corgi (talk) 17:37, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor vandalism 

message: In the first paragraph, we are told that the term jack o'lantern is not common outside North America. This is nonsense. I live in the United Kingdom, where the term has been in common parlance for as long as I can remember. Can some please remove this daft statement as soon as possible? Many thanks, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:01, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Can some one please remove misleading statement in first paragraph?

message: Can we have another review of the Origin section of this page? The sole justification for the inclusion of the claim that Jack O'Lantern carving originated in Ireland is Ronald Hutton's work which does not refer to any contemporary primary source documentation. Hutton himself is unsure of the claim. Huxley10 (talk) 13:44, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems dubious considering pumpkins are native to North America, not Europe. But then so are potatoes. - Bri.public (talk) 18:11, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It went into detail on that actually. The Irish were making Jack O'Lanterns using turnips and other vegetables long before it became a tradition elsewhere [ie- Halloween], the tradition came with them to the New World and they began to use pumpkins instead since they are larger. The Jack O'Lanterns were never exclusive to pumpkins, turnips were the first to be used for it. 2600:1700:1EC1:30C0:A4B9:3115:859E:E1FF (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:37, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: The start of this article says that a jack o'lantern is a curved pumpkin or turnip. Would it not make more sense to say that a jack o'lantern is most commonly a pumpkin, but maybe made from other members of the squash family, such as turnip or butternut squash? Vorbee (talk) 14:53, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree with this! I think it could help the article out tremendously! Sansontm (talk) 16:08, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Turnips, pumpkins and squashes

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the first sentence of this article we read "A jack o'lantern (or jack o'lantern)". Since the words in brackets are the same as the words out of brackets, is it really necessary to have the brackets?Vorbee (talk) 08:03, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Jack o'lantern

message: On the BBC Radio 4 programme "The Kitchen Cabinet", it was said that jack o'lantern originally meant a man with a lantern and a "jack" simply meant a man. This was on the edition of the programme broadcast on 26 October 2019. If any one knows some reliable sources about how the jack o'lantern got its name, this would make an interesting addition to the article. Vorbee (talk) 09:45, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: How did it get its name?

message: I removed the lines about the Maori because it had nothing to do with this article. Thank you. 216.158.244.199 (talk) 16:40, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Maori carving gourds in the 1300s doesn't contribute to an understanding of this topic even if it is a really cool fact 

message: While trivia sections are often frivolous, various news sources report about parodies, notably the "Trumpkins".  Commons even has an appropriately licensed picture available.  —PaleoNeonate – 07:01, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular culture, trivia or parody