Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers/Archive 10

message: this first comment is in response to the last comment of the above, superordinate section
:::::: They are lost in various edit histories, but they were for numbers of the values we are discussing here and the justifying comments were very simply along the lines of see Manual of Style (dates and numbers) or according to..., etc. I think may be represented by numerals could be ambiguous because it does not specify that they may be spelled out. Also, it would allow, for instance, 43649 to be spelled out, which is something that would not really be appropriate. Also, should not five hundred be spelled out? So, how about
* In ordinary prose, whole numbers from zero through ten, and any such whole numbers followed by hundred, thousand, hundred thousand, and million<STRIKE>, and so on</STRIKE> should be spelled out. Whole numbers from zero through one hundred, and any such whole numbers followed by hundred, thousand, etc. may be spelled out or represented by numerals. Other numbers should be represented by numerals, except where they appear as the first word in a sentence, in which case they must be written out in full.
* Numerals should be used where appropriate in dates, times of day, currency, or technical prose, especially in tables or other areas where space is confined.
? - Centrx 17:35, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I could agree to most of this. I'm not sure about "whole numbers followed by hundred, thousand, hundred thousand, million, and so on should be spelled out." Why? I don't see that "ten million" is any better than 10,000,000 and in fact, given the differences between commonwealth and US meanings of million and billion it would be better to use numerals. older ≠ wiser 22:54, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is the written word, not a mathematical text, not a confined space. I don't see why one should be spelled out but not one hundred. As for US vs. Commonwealth, yes I do think it might be appropriate for numbers greater than billion (million is common between the two). Although, as the OED states, billion in the US sense is increasingly common in Britain. - Centrx 23:36, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, no, million is still a source of confusion. As for space, so what. What about consistency. Why make exceptions for some numbers simply because they have zeroes. That makes no sense to me. older ≠ wiser 00:02, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Simply, there is no confusion in the English language with million. Whereas the OED lists two unique definitions for billion, the US and British variety each, it does no such thing for million. Million as 1,000,000 has been the definition since the fourteenth century through today and the standard for British writers. Whereas billion is 1,000,000,000 in the US and 1,000,000,000,000 in Britain, what is million in Britian[sic] if not 1,000,000 and what is 1,000,000 if not a million? A British milliard is 1,000,000,000 like the U.S. billion, but the OED states that this term has largely been superseded by billion and nevertheless it is no confusion of million. As I write these long numbers I now see more the propriety of spelling out large numbers. As for the reason to have a different rule for "some numbers" with "zeroes", the exception is rather that non-round numbers are not spelled out and the others are standardly spelled out. The reason for this is that it is unwieldy to spell out four million twenty thousand two hundred and fifty-five whereas spelling out round numbers that can be expressed concisely, as four million is sensible. Note also that it is especially important to spell out approximate numbers. Rather than referring to the geology of 1,000,000 years ago, the reference should be to one million years ago (things like 1.53 million can also be used) whereas if the number would be indicated in numerals by this rule, it would be a relatively specific number. - Centrx 18:17, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, you are correct about million. I was misremembering the discussion about the milliard. However, I still would not want an absolute rule about this. I quite agree with you that it is better to spell out the term when dealing with approximations. However, if the what is meant is exactly 100, 1,000 or 1,000,000 then I see no advantage to requiring that the number be spelled out. older ≠ wiser 00:34, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion following consensus of the above