Talk:Jansenism

message: http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/jansenis.htm
http://frenchminds.healthekids.net/course.phtml?course_id=628
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0858980.html
:I'm adding some see also kind of links to Dale Van Kley's bio page.  This prominent historian is one of THE scholars of Jansenism and has written prolifically on the subject.  His works are cited by just about any book I've ever read on the topic, and I've read more on it than I'd like to admit! :) --164.107.92.120 21:59, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: "An opponent of the Jesuits, Jansen proposed a return to the principles laid down in the work of St. Augustine of Hippo." 
Would someone please expand this sentence to show exactly what in Augustine's ethos links his writings/thought/ethos to Jansenism - it doesn't necessarily follow and it would make the leap of thought clearer to others.
Thanks,
Iamlondon 14:56, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the briefest of theological rationales just now. The.helping.people.tick 15:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Expansion

message: I removed  from the article.  The top google results for frenchminds are all WP or mirrors, so this site has probably gone to the great server in the sky. Silverfish70 13:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: Unlike Calvinism, however, Jansenism lacked a doctrine of assurance, making salvation unknowable even to the "saved."  I am under the impression that lack of assurance is a current criticism of Calvinism.  In the eyes of Calvinism (says this criticism), people can have a religious experience and even call upon the name of Jesus for salvation, but if they end up apostate by the time of their death, they were never "really" saved, God never actually gave grace to them.  In that context, the predestination of the saved and the predestination of the unsaved is unknown by the individual involved.  Does anyone know more about this theological controversy? --BlueNight 06:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It does not. The main difference between Jansenism and main Catholic thought is its belief of predestination. Otherwise, the debate focused on "efficacious grace" vs "sufficient grace": in agreement with Augustinism, Jansenius insisted that God did not bestow to all men his grace, and that only an "efficacious grace" could save man. On the other hand, Jesuits, following Luis Molina and Molinism, claimed that a "sufficient grace" was bestowed to all men, and that, by itself, it could save man. The latter insists on human's free will while the former insists on the necessity of grace: the heresy, on one side or the other, would be to annihilate the opposing pole. This tension is already to be found in St. Augustine, who claimed that if an "efficacious grace" was necessary, it did not cancel man's free will. Note that particularly radical forms of Jesuitism were also considered heretical (equivalence between natural and Christian virtues or justification of lies by Thomas Sanchez under the pretext of "direction of intention", etc.) Spirals31 (talk) 17:37, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contrast to Calvinism 

message: This article does not appear to explain why this sect was condemned as a heresy - which aspects of its doctrine contradicted Catholic orthodoxy. Chubbles 01:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ditto the above comment.  The article could use a clear statement of what the Catholic propositions were which were denied by Jansenism and what the propositions of Jansenism were which were denied by the Catholic Church. patsw 23:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Added, per above. patsw 02:41, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Definitely serious. Sun-King maybe, but human being still, and his personal penitentiary, François Annat, was a Jesuit. Of course, there were other reasons, not least the political importance of the Society of Jesus, in Rome, in Europe, and in the whole world. Spirals31 (talk) 17:07, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OED defines "penitentiary" as "office in papal court deciding questions of penitence" Is this what is meant? Would "confessor" or "spiritual director" be more appropriate in the context? Xxanthippe (talk) 09:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Spiritual director & confessor is what I had in mind. Spirals31 (talk) 12:30, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Heresy

message: There is a colloquial use of the term Jansenism which designates clerics or laypeople that have a particularly rigorist understanding of Catholicism in terms of morality, and especially in terms of sexual morality. The original Jansenists were considered to be very puritanical, and so any subsequent theological movement that was suspected of puritanism inherited the derogatory nickname of Jansenism because of its perceived prudishness. ADM (talk) 06:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Jansenism and sex

message: I've heard claims that the Catholic Church in Ireland was "soaked in Jansenism" until a few decades ago. Does this refer only to the meaning "prudish" given in the comment above, or was there any actual influence of Jansenism on Irish Catholicism? -- 77.7.145.220 (talk) 01:53, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In a similar vein I've read that the Catholic church in the U.S. (which is supposedly dominated by the descendants of Irish immigrants) is also "Jansenist" and that in part that explains the stereotype (in America) of Catholics as (sexually) repressed and guilt-ridden. The explanation I recall is that clergy training for the Irish took place mainly in Holland and France (where Jansenism was widespread or at least a force), as the British suppressed Catholicism in Ireland itself and these two countries were the closest to Ireland by boat (and were politically anti-British so welcoming to people from Ireland). Having said that I remember reading a quote in one of the Hungarian-American historian John Lukas's books where he refers to this theory as "bunk" (or something similar). :-)
146.95.98.226 (talk) 23:05, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Ireland? 

message: An image used in this article, File:Blaise Pascal.PNG, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests July 2011 
;What should I do?
	A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 10:22, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:Blaise Pascal.PNG Nominated for Deletion

message: The introductory paragraph reads:
"The papal bull Cum occasione, issued by Pope Innocent X in 1653, condemned five cardinal doctrines of Jansenism as heresy . . . " Emphasis mine. 
However, under papal condemnation we read: "However, on August 1, 1641, the Holy Office issued a decree condemning Augustinus and forbidding its reading. In 1643, Pope Urban VIII followed up with a papal bull entitled Cum occasione, which condemned Augustinus on the grounds that . . . "
Is this an error? Are there really two documents entitled Cum occasione issued 10 years apart, condmening the same error?
All evidence that I have supports the Innocent X in 1653 document. This is the only citation of a document by Urban in 1643 by this title, that I have been able to find. But the fact that the article is so specific makes me wonder whether I've missed something. 
Wmdiem (talk) 21:33, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cum occasione detials 

message: The term jansenist only appears once in the text (this translation):
That paragraph certainly does not mean:
My interpretation of the manifesto text is that
*a  was not the result
*Catholic Church in Quebec was not jansenist
—BoBoMisiu (talk) 21:57, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: By who? What course? What university? 76.65.220.79 (talk) 19:15, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Refus