Talk:Ganja, Azerbaijan

message: We should have a section speaking about the killings of Armenians during the Nargono-Karabakh war causing the depletion of the Armenian population which was at least 15% of the population and used to be be 44% around the turn of the 20th century.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.165.152 (talk) 22:22, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Kirovabad (Ganja) Pogrom of Armenians

message: Ganje was a city in the persian empire until its capture by the russians in the 19th century. For Azeri etnicity, please refer to the appropriate article. It is important to note that the present state of azerbaijan is a very new phenomenon and no such state has ever existed before 20th century.
: Please get your facts straight. Ganja wasn't a part of the Persian Empire until its "capture by the Russians". Immediately before the war between Russia and Iran for the division of Azerbaijan and the Caucasus, Ganja was the capital of an independent Ganja Khanate, which was a feudal Azerbaijani state. The first paragraph is very misleading, because it tells about supposed Persian origins of the city (without any reliable proof) even before stating the fact that it is a city in Azerbaijan. Moreover, it is your personal opinion about a "new phenomenon" - the fact is that the Republic of Azerbaijan exists and that Ganja is its part and that Ganja is a very important city for Azerbaijani in terms of the Azeri culture and statehood.   
Please, note that Ganja is a historical Azerbaijani city. Its inhabitants all the time have been Azerbaijanis or Albanians, ancestors of Azerbaijanis. Please, don't try to credit Ganja to persians. I have no relations to persiona. Azerbaijanis and persians are different civilizations, different cultures, different ethnicities, different language and etc. No common feature other than being neighbors. --68.49.90.60 18:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 68, your edits have consistently shown a point of view. Without having reliable sources to back up your claims, such assertions cannot be made in an encyclopedic fashion. --Kuzaar-T-C- 13:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (One more note)- note that the current fashion in which it is on the page is appropriate, being that it only claims to be a city in Azerbaijan, which is factually true. --Kuzaar-T-C- 13:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: City in Azerbaijan

message: Ganja appears closer to the Persian spelling and Ganca seems to be closer to the Azeri spelling.  The United Nations Group of Expects on Geographical Names issued a working paper (WP 82) in 2000 entitled Classification of the Populated Localities On 1/600,000 Scale Map of the Azerbaijan Republic but they acknowledged that the conversion of the Azeri from cyrillic to roman had not been fully accomodated.  The UN report still used Ganja.  Fallingrain.com uses Ganca. signed: Bejnar 05:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Azeri spelling is indeed Ganca, but based on the research I did for the subdivisions article, if I recall correctly the official romanization is "Ganja". See . --Golbez 07:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  When I was in Ganja for a few weeks 3 years ago, it seemed that the Azeris spelled it "Gəncə" in Azeri, but "Ganja" in English.  So I would say this is at the right place.  --jacobolus (t) 21:11, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ganja or Ganca

message: I added some things back that were referenced,  Artaxiad 03:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What you added doesn't make sense. If "it was an urban center of the province of Utik of the Kingdom of Greater Armenia until the kingdom's breakup in 387 A.D." how can you claim that it was founded by Armenians in 5th century A.D., when it was first mentioned? Parishan 04:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, hopefully we'll get this fixed, thanks. Artaxiad 00:36, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Info 

message: Yes, Ganja can have more than one meaning, but its also the name of this city, so please dont vandalize the article again anon. Azerbaijani 13:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea, dont vandalize the article again anon.Azerbaijani 15:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good luck, the potheads are always gonna vandalize this article. There is only one way you can stop the vandalism, rename the article to Gandzak :) VartanM 17:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Better yet, ask the admins to place this article on permanent semi-protection. Grandmaster 06:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: I think the Persian translation is there because Ganja in the first place is a Persian name. I reinserted it.Hajji Piruz 16:30, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Persian name

message: I added the Historic Armenian community section back. I take full responsibility for the text as if I wrote it myself. There really  is no good reason to exclude this information from this article.  --VartanM 01:16, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is the section a problem?Hajji Piruz 03:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was removed because it was added by a suspected sockpuppet of Robert599. I re-added and take full responsibility for it. --VartanM 03:44, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This edit is made by the banned user, and the rules require undoing all edits of banned users. Plus, this edit is factually inaccurate anyway. I explained above that Kalankatuatsi actually says that the city was founded by Arabs, unlike what the sock claims. This edit was reverted by the Wikipedia admin as well, so please stop restoring it. Grandmaster 09:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Grandmaster is there anything else you dispute besides the founding of the city? VartanM 15:29, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Armenian Community

message: uber Engrish on that one... It made me laugh. But I'm high. So yeah.
Anyway, somebody might want to clean that up...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.175.226.27 (talk) 18:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  language section 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Oppose as above, there is no proof of primary usage being Ganja the city. Current situation (Or possibly even with disambig page moved onto Ganja) is best. Narson (talk) 17:28, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: :I removed Historic Armenian community section from the article as it was absolutely irrelevant. Wikipedia articles on the world's other cities do not contain specific sections on historic communities of any ethnic background and there is no reason not to follow this established practice in the article about Ganja. If necessary, you can indicate that Armenians lived in Ganja during different periods of its history along with dominant Persian- and Turkish-speaking population in the History section. Also, feel free to list some prominent Armenians who were born in Ganja under the Famous People section. There is absolutely no need to overload this article with some unnecessary information about the works and achievements of the historic figures listed by VartanM as that information can be accessed in separate articles dedicated to those people. --Noeros (talk) 01:02, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Anticipating the counter arguments from the opponents of my edit, I would like to state that it is not about the sources used to support the Historic Armenian community section. I do not question the sources this time. My point is to keep the article aligned with other articles dedicated to the world's cities. I repeat, none of those articles have sections on HISTORIC communities of any ethnicity. Why deviate from the established practice? With all the respect, I still would like to know what makes the historic Armenian community of Ganja better than the historic Azerbaijani community of Yerevan that at some point constituted 49% of the city's population (compared to 48% Armenians) (see Yerevan article with supporting sources)? The established practice is that the ethnic groups that have lived in a given city at a given period of the city's history are discussed in the History section (e.g. Azerbaijanis in the Yerevan article), modern populations - in the Demography section, and prominent citizens - in the Famous People section. History and Famous People sections are already present in this article. And there is absolutely no need to overwhelm the Ganja article with irrelevant sections that do not follow the standards of similar articles. Noeros (talk) 06:02, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a strawman argument. If there is a newly formed local government, split the article. Ottre 06:30, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Noeros, how nice of you to anticipate your "opponents" reaction to your borderline vandalism. Can you tell us what prompted you to inaugurate your first article edit on Wikipedia in such a manner? Grandmaster, the Armenian community has existed in Ganja since the city was founded. No other community can trace their roots in this city that far back. If you can tell us of such a historic community that existed in Yerevan for over a millenia and has produced so many prominent people, than please go ahead.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 15:30, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Citation needed for "since the city was founded". And isn't 1000 years not enough to deserve a section in the article about Yerevan? Grandmaster (talk) 15:36, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure. I'll even add that the founder of the Hethumid dynasty of Cilicia was a lord from Ganzdzak. As for Yerevan, come on. You think you can trace Azeris beyond the 18th century? At most, a very very long stretch, you could have compared Azeris in Yerevan to Armenians in Baku.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 15:42, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Ottre, could you please explain what do you mean by "newly formed local government"? Noeros (talk) 07:35, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not if you insist that Azeri history can be compared to Hayastan. Ottre 07:57, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

text: That's right , but as I get , the two big cities of Baki and Ganja are considered tobe only cities without any suburb :that means the villages just outside the city are considered tobe in a different districts.That's a new classification and in historical view , the villages around the  city were considered as parts of it's body : that makes the problem . If the new classification considers the historical place with a new name , then which place is the real region ? As it was mentioned in the text , the historical place of the Ganja were changing in time and as an example , in one time , it was considered to be 8 km to the southwest of the old one, that by today's division is a part of other district.Summary : Ganja province which was a historical entity and now there is no such province, have to discussed in this article or in other articles? --Alborz Fallah (talk) 19:42, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ganja province (or officially Elisabethpol Governorate) was a huge region, covering half of Azerbaijan. We cannot include everyone who was born there in the article about the city of Ganja. See the relevant article for the Elisabethpol Governorate, you can add any info relevant to it there. Yephrem was born in a village near Shamkir, that's not Ganja, and not even the city of Shamkir. Grandmaster (talk) 10:19, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Barsum village in Shamkir... Overall , I think you are right . I think the usage of "Ganja province" in Iranica, misguided me.Thank you .--Alborz Fallah (talk) 15:43, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, that the village in question. My pleasure to be of help. Grandmaster (talk) 07:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historic Armenian community 

message: I readded Persian name based on the fact that the Russian name is there.  Plus this is an Encyclopedia and if a name has Persian root, then it should be mentioned regardless of the political status of its terrtiory as the primary goal is to have an Encyclopedia.  The Persian name is significant for many Caucasian toponyms as many ancient texts have used it.  It is at least as significant as the Russian script.  The Persian name of Ganja is attested at least from 1000 years ago(for example Qatran Tabrizi mentions Ganja) and many other texts mention it.  It was there also before and was removed.  Note this is not related to Babak/GM's edit about Azeri script.  On the particular Azeri script to use, I am not going to get involved.  But articles with regards to Iranian Azerbaijan should use Perso-Arabic script as the Azeri language of Iran has its own ISO code.  Those with the republic of Azerbaijan can use whatever script they wish. Sometimes we even have the Azerbaijani-Turkish name in articles in an era when the language did not exist and I was asked to remove it in a particular article and I said the issue is no big deal (for example during the era of 12th century A.D. there was no latin script and Azerbaijani Turkish had not formed yet as a distinct Oghuz-based language).  I think in general since there is no wiki-guidelines (as far as I know), with regards to names,  any name that has a certain or probable Persian etymology, or has been used frequently in the 1000+ years of classical "modern Persian" literature is valid for the intro. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 06:40, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure why brandmeister removed the Persian name but kept the Russian.  What is the policy behind this?  Note the Persian name was removed from the article, it was there before: .  So I do not see any discussion removing it and I am correcting vandalism.  This is an Encyclopedia and if a name has Persian etymology or has been extensively used in Persian literature and has Persian roots, then it is valid to insert its pronounciation in Perso-Arabic script.  Having the Persian is much more valid than the Russian and we can't have a double standard and the issue has nothing to do with the dispute on Azeri alphabet which I am not involved in for articles related to the country of Azerbaijan.  Please use the talkpage and show relavent policy why the Persian name was deleted and Russian kept for this article.  Any name that has Persian etymology is valid for the intro.  Thanks.  --Nepaheshgar (talk) 23:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to note, that the official language in Azerbaijan is Azeri, so the Persian name should go in the section above. As of wiki-guideline for foreign names, see Wikipedia:Lead#Separate section usage: if there are more than two alternative names, these names can be moved to and explained in a "Names" or "Etymology" section; it is recommended that this be done if there are at least three alternate names, or there is something notable about the names themselves. I appreciate your counter-vandalism intentions, but please be familiar with WP:VANDALISM first. brandспойт 07:04, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What you stated does not really apply since it is not an alternative name.  Note the policy you cited states: "If there are more than two alternative names..".  This is not an alternative name, so the rest of it does not apply.  Both names are Ganja (I am not sharp on Cyrilic but I think even the Russian also states Ganja).  If the Persian name was XYZ then yes, the policy you cited applies.  But in reality the Persian name is the origin of the name, which was borrowed into Russian/Azerbaijani-Turkic and etc.  Rather if you look in the section above what you have cited: "Relevant foreign language names, such as in an article on a person who does not herself write her name in English, are encouraged.".  As far as I know Wikipedia is not country-based and official language is not the only basis to include foreign name.  Of course unless there is a Wikipedia guideline that says only official languages only, but this I have not found.  Official languages in my opinon have relavance (although no where it is cited in wiki-guidelines as far as I know) and that is why it is included.  But by no means is the official language the only basis for relavance.  It is fine to have the official name of course, but that does not exclude other languages as long as relavance is established.  Of course relavance can be opioniated.  Some may cite 100 years of history, others might cite a former population or etc.  In this case, if Russian is relavent, then Persian is 10x more relavant.  But that is not the reason for the relavance only.  For example Ganja has been there more than 1000+ years, much earlier than even the spread of Azerbaijani-Turkish in the area or even any modern national boundaries.  Of course the Azerbaijani-Turkish is relavent. For example take Nezami Ganjavi (we know such a language was not yet developed at the time of Nezami as mentioned by Gumilev..), but I think it is relavent there because modern Azerbaijanis associate with him.  So one can use different criterions to establish relavancy and it is best not to cause conflicts over this.  Of course some articles like Manneans, there is no reason.  Anyhow, for Ganja, I have already established the relavance of Persian from both etymological and historical point of view.  The etymology and historicity of the name establishes a relavance in Persian which is sufficent to establish relavance.  So I think etymology is a good basis for relavance and the other of course is 1000+ years of historical usage.  The word گنجه (written in Persian) has more historicity than the combined history of the Russian and Azerbaijani-Turkish names for it.  But the Russian/Azerbaijani-Turkish versions are of course respected and relavant.  So is the Persian.  So by the fact that the etymology of the word is Persian and has been used in Persian texts written by authors born in this area (some even before its linguistic Turkfication), it is relavent.   --Nepaheshgar (talk) 07:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Persian name

message: Please explain how it is relevant here. It never was official name of the city, and is Persian too. There's another Ganzak in Iran. What's the point in spelling the Persian name in Armenian? --Grandmaster 05:43, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I know the Iranian users repeated the same mistake above but it is incorrect to say that the etymology is Persian , it's Iranic. The root word for treasure is common among most Iranian languages and has been part of the Armenian vocabulary for at least two millenia if not more.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 18:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Encyclopaedia Iranica which is a very good information source can help here , and as you know , professor Mary Boyce is an undisputed scholar in Iranian studies. She says : GANZAK(Ganja, Gk. Gazaca, Lat. Gaza, Ganzaga, Ar. Janza, Jaznaq), a town of Achaemenid foundation in Azerbaijan. The name means “treasury” and is a Median form (against Pers. gazn-), adopted in Persian administrative useAnyway she also mentions the Latin and Armenian word in the article , but I think Grandmaster is over all more correct , because in comparison to same articles , multiple names in Armenian , Azeri , Persian and Latin can't be mentioned in every article about the geographical places of the whole region .--Alborz Fallah (talk) 19:31, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Baa Salaam!  That is true about Professor. Mary Boyce, as she is undisputed.  But she is describing Ganzak in Western Azerbaijan province of Iran during Achaemenid times which survived for a long time, but it is gone toda.  The city Ganja situated in republic of Azerbaijan has a late Sassanid foundation.  By that time the Middle Persian word would be Ganjak and then modern Persian گنجه/Ganja  which was borrowed into Azeri-Turkic.  That is the actual word Ganja is Persian, but itself could go back to Middle Persian (when probably the city was built) and then Old Persian and then Median and then probably proto-Iranian or who knows.  That is like the word Bagh which was a loanword into Azeri-Turkic and then became an Azeri-Turkic word.  So the actual word Ganja might have deeper roots than the foundation of the city itself, but by the time of its foundation it was Middle Persian: Ganjak/Ganzak and Modern Persian Ganja.  But when the city was established (that is the Ganja in the republic of Azerbaijan) is according to Bosworth during the late Sassanid/early Islamic era.  On including multiple names (Armenian, Russia and etc.) that was simply a suggestion, but I am not going to go beyond since the issue has some political tone to it.  --Nepaheshgar (talk) 19:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

text: Salam ! the actual place of Ganzak is not known , maybe Laylan , maybe Atoorgashnasp(Takab) and maybe both of them in different time . But anyway , she give us valuable information about the word itself and similar names in different places like Afghanistan , Azerbaijan and northern Aras regions may be because of functional usage of that word . I mean the treasury of the provinces maybe called by that name . --Alborz Fallah (talk) 19:56, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

text: Gandzak is Persian, and not Armenian. Ganja was not populated by Armenians at any point in history, Armenians always were a minority there. At the time of foundation of the city (9th century A.D.) Utik was a region within Caucasian Albania, and the city was founded by Arabs, even though there could have been an earlier Persian settlement at this location. So the Armenian name is not relevant from any point of view. Plus, the Armenian users persistently remove Azerbaijani names from the articles about cities in Armenia, such as here:  If we include Armenian name here just because there was a large Armenian community in the city, then by the same token Azerbaijani names are appropriate for most cities in Armenia. It works both ways, not one. Grandmaster 04:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that Basargechar is there, so there should be Գանձակ here. I see no reasons why Basargechar should not be on vardenis' page. Now, this is nonsense: "Ganja was not populated by Armenians at any point in history, Armenians always were a minority there." Ganja was populated by Armenians at any point in history, and there is no evidence that they have always been a minority. Greiwood (talk) 17:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ganja never had an Armenian majority, it has never been a part of an Armenian state, and the name of Gandzak (which is also of Persian origin, and not Armenian) has never been official. So it is irrelevant here. The city was founded by Arabs, possibly in place of a Persian settlement in Caucasian Albania. Since then it always had Muslim majority. By the same token the Azeri name is appropriate in the article about Yerevan, as Azerbaijanis were the majority of population there before the Russian revolution. Grandmaster 05:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armenian name 

message: It would be great if you add a section about the notable figures of this city. I just can't do it myself because I don't know any people from ganja except for nezami.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hazratemahmood (talk • contribs) 18:57, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable figures 

message: I checked out the sources of the demograhic and its not even correct. The first, second, third, fourth source is about Elisavetpol governorate and not just Ganja city. The Elisavetpol governorate included many other cities as it covered a large region. The only real source thats about the city of Ganja is in the year 1939, 1959 and 1999. The source for 1988/1989 doesnt even exist. So really the table can only show the numbers from 1939, 1959 and 1999. Neftchi (talk) 09:29, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: So you mean that 1886, 1892, 1897 and 1926 figures don't show the data for the city of Elizavetopol/Ganja??? And also, can you read Russian??? --Yerevanci (talk) 17:36, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnic groups in Ganja  

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thread_title: File:Nizami Ganjavi Monument.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: I remove the name of Ganja in Persian from preamble. The Persian is not official in Ganja. There are no any Persians in this city. If the name of the city derived from Persian we can use it in appropriate section "Origin of the name", but not in preamble. Please don't start edit war and don't return it to preamble without consensus (see WP:CONSENSUS). --Interfase (talk) 17:14, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: They are native to the city, even more than the modern Turcophone identity it has. Or was Nizami Ganjavi just a traveller that hopped by? - LouisAragon (talk) 01:47, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persian name in preamble 

message: So, has the city over a million population or just 300K? The intro tells the "over a million", the Demographics sections, however - "over 300,000".46.241.150.235 (talk) 00:28, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is this the second or third largest city in Azerbaijan? The data seems at odds with what is claimed here. Uhooep (talk) 23:12, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Second or third largest city?

message: Is it 2nd largest, like the lead says, or 3rd, like it says in demographics?
Troll Control (talk) 09:53, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: (late reply) , I believe it's 3rd large as per the 2020 statistics, Ganja has a population of 335,600 while Sumgait has a population of 345,300. Though in most places, including official Azerbaijani documents, Ganja is written as the second-largest city, so I'm somewhat confused here. — CuriousGolden  (T·C)  05:48, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  2nd or 3rd largest? 

message: The list of prominent people us divided into 2 separate part of ethically Azeri and Armenian famous persons, this list should be somehow merged and improved and also provided with citations. Kevo327 (talk) 13:24, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prominent people 

message: Demographics reflected on the this article is based on information from low quality web site created on free hosting:  "Кировабадский горсовет (1979 г.)". Ethno-Caucasus (in Russian). Archived from the original on 9 June 2012. At first look you think that archived from original means that from original legitimate information, but actually it just archived copy of this free hosting web page. Information provided on this page are conclusions of the author of this web page. This conclusions are not checked and verified by anyone. Therefore all information which refers to http://www.ethno-kavkaz.narod.ru/ shall be removed from article, until validity of information will be proved.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.20.248.246 (talk) 16:19, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics 

message: Hello there. Can you tell me why there is an Armenian name in this article? Armenians have never been majority there and it's not a common name. If so, there should be an Azerbaijani name in the Yerevan article. VivaEspana11 (talk page)  19:17, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armenian name 

message: I made this talk page section for you out of sheer WP:GF. Please discuss your concerns over here with  and  in relation to the lede. I.e. why, or why not, should the Armenian/Persian names be added to the lede? - LouisAragon (talk) 00:42, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: ZaniGiovanni wasn't involved in this particular dispute as far as I can see, but I noticed you two have had similar disagreements at related AA2 articles. Reaching a consensus here might cool the atmosphere. @Mfikriansori, as you haven't made that many edits on Wikipedia yet, please remember; edit warring is never an option, especially within contentious topic areas such as WP:AA2. I will voice my own opinion on this one later. Thanks, - LouisAragon (talk) 00:42, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: LouisAragon I don't have an opinion yet regarding this, but I'd say most of the recent edits by this user aren't constructive and very often are just POV or subtle POV push. They remove / change the Armenian (and official at the time) names like here which adds 0 value to the article and isn't the official city name of that time period. Similarly, only in the opposite direction, they add Khankendi next to common and modern name Stepanakert ,  or completely change it, both instances isn't even the main city's article, Stepanakert (which already covers everything). Unconstructive and disruptive edits in random AA articles, especially without any consensus, is definitely not the way to go Mfikriansori. They're still edit-warring over their own vague additions , , completely disregarding consensus and onus, even after advice and warnings in their talk page. I don't see how this stubbornness coupled with POV pokes, and disregard for core wiki policies is going to help the already contentious AA area. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 01:38, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: LouisAragon Wikipedia as a free encyclopedia means people can edit it freely, of course if their edit was not about to vandal the article as well has backed up by reliable source. Okay, I have heard enough of so-called CONSENSUS, eventhough I don't yet learn about the scheme. But, I am curious why Ganja article, a city in Azerbaijan must contained all names from Persian, Armenian, and even Russian in the lede/introduction paragraph. One of the reason given to me is because Persian and Armenian were historically present there and had huge population. Meanwhile Russian, their also had their historic presence there. However, why don't we do the same with Yerevan article? Which according to some sources like , , , , or , other than Armenian, Tatar or Turkic people and Persian also had an essential presence there? Thank you. I just don't want Wikipedia to look as hypocrite, where this scheme is applied to "these articles", but can't be applied to "those articles". Should I begin to add Turkic, Persian, and Russian ones to the lede of Yerevan artikel, now? Mfikriansori (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Look, this is WP:AA2 territory. Its covered by discetionary sanctions, which means its super contentious. You started editing this topic area in early 2022, which is pretty recent, and have been making many overly WP:BOLD edits. Reverting,-- tag-bombing. You name it. In fact, since you have started editing AA2, as far as I can see, you haven't made more than 1 or 2 content-related edits within this topic area. When I speak about content-related edits I'm referring to: 1) expanding/improving per Wikipedia's guidelines 2) adding sources, etc. Making too many bold edits within such topic area's isn't advised, especially when you're a new editor. It looks super disruptive, even if the editor's intentions are not necessarily disruptive in nature. I highly advise you to just create talk page sections next time before initiating and/or continuing edit wars (as you did here). You're also free to create a RfC if you want. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:13, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Now regarding this particular article. I don't think the Armenian and Persian transliterations should be included in the lede. They should be mentioned in the body of the article. The Yerevan analogy you bring up is flawed however; Yerevan has had an Armenian majority for most of its history, and it is the capital of Armenia. Unlike Yerevan, Ganja is a regional city, and it didn't have a Turkic and/or Azerbaijani majority for a long period of time during its history. I'm not even going in detail about its massive cultural and historic importance to Armenians and Iranians to the point that it is simply incomparable to that of the Turkic-speakers in Yerevan. For instance, one of the greatest Persian poets in history, Nizami Ganjavi, was from Ganja. He authored some of the greatest works in Persian literature. I don't think anything close to such significance can be said about Yerevan in relation to historic Turkic speakers (or Russians for that matter). - LouisAragon (talk) 23:13, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Honestly Armenian, Persian, or even Georgian name in the lede for any article is not a problem for me, as long as it has some degree of importance or significance. What I found problematic is in disguised of consensus, which some of them I found none when looked for in the talk page, my edit which only about adding other name to various article regarding Armenia is under attack and labelled highly disruptive. It is something that I can't swallow, because why we let Armenian name in so many articles of its neighboring countries, including this Ganja city, Lake Urmia, Nemrut Volcano, etc. Then deliberately prevent the same when I do vice versa? Can't we reach another consensus, like if Armenian name can be there in the lede, other names should have a chance too to be put in article like Lake Sevan, Hadrut, etc.
Last from me, eventhough maybe (as I don't study the presence of Turkic people in historic Yerevan deeply) not as significant as you said LouisAragon, they once formed the majority. Not only for one or two decades, but maybe a century. Even there was time when Armenian church was hard to find, many mosques commissioned by Erivan/Irevan Khanate (which labelled as Iranian/Persian), a Turkic khanate ruled over piece of South Caucasus. There were also other Turkic khanate, like in Karabakh or Ganja. It is easy to deny Azerbaijani connection to many place in Armenia because before 1936 they weren't refer as such, but Tatar, Caucasian Tatar, or simply Turk. So, Turkic people in Yerevan even when you said was not that important and their significance is lower than Persian/Russian/Armenian historical presence in Ganja, still they are important for the city's history itself. It was not until the first decades of 20th CE when Armenian formed majority again in Yerevan.
But clearly, I get it from what you said. Yerevan is the capital of Armennia and it will be shameful for nation as old and civilized like Armenia to have even slightest mentioned of Azerbaijani (in form of their version of article's name), which is younger than cocacola. But, it is fine for Ganja, because it is not Baku and only a regional city. So, the conclusion is, I will add Azerbaijani name to the lede of regional city, both in Karabakh and Armenia, which had a significant presence of Azerbaijani (then known as Tatar, Caucasian Tatar, or Turkey). It is justified by looking at Armenian name present in the lede of Lake Urmia. Thank you. I hope you understand that English is not my first language and I also want to contribute to the English Wikipedia. Mfikriansori (talk) 17:15, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

text: So... the Azeri transliteration should be added to Yerevan because it was apparently populated by Turks for a decade, a city which has existed since at least 200 BC..? Also, you can't just make your own conclusions. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:01, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, why not? We have Armenian name for Lake Urmia, eventhough Armenian presence now is little to minimum, and all they have is history. It is apparently make Azerbaijani seems doesn't have history at all. You also can't make your own. Mfikriansori (talk) 18:11, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but you're gonna have a very hard time convincing others with that logic. Not sure how I made any conclusion, I literally just asked you a question. Kindly read WP:CONSENSUS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:14, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names in the lede