Talk:Transphobia/Archive 1

message: I thsould really be said that both "Transphobia" and "homophobia" have appalling etymology, on a par with the infamous "television" ("a bastard word", my linguistics teacher used to say: it's half Greek, half Latin). From its roots, "homophobia" should mean "fear of what is the same"... -- Tarquin 02:49, 3 August 2002
::There's no such thing as "appalling etymology". homo- from homosexual, -phobia meaning fear. trans- from transgendered, -phobia meaning fear. That's not appalling. - montréalais 09:03, 13 August 2002
:::Quite so, but for someone knowledgeable in linguistics something combining Latin and Greek would likely be an Abomination. --Kizor 06:56, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Both "Transphobia" and "homophobia" have appalling etymology 

message: I would like to point out that placing "transphobia" as a sub-category of homophobia is incorrect and inappropriate. Many are not homophobic and yet are transphobic. Transgenderism is not synonymous with homosexuality and it is inappropriate to equate the two through this subtle form of intolerance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.57.55 (talk • contribs) 03:21, 6 April 2006
:Depends on how you look at it - many people regard trans being something like an extreme form of homosexuality; and while this view is definitely not compatible with the current scientific view, it exists. Seen this way, the categorisation would seem correct. On the other hand, both can exist perfectly independantly, including (few) LGB people, who fight homophobia with a vengance, but are quite transphobic themselfes. Which is why the current categorisation of both in Discrimination does make more sense. -- AlexR 04:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I've said above, what matters is the distinction drawn in the minds of the phobics, rather than any distinction drawn by defenders of the transgendered.  All phobias and forms of intolerance are social and psychological problems, and any discussion of them has to take the fundamental irrationality of the human mind into account.  It is a mistake to imagine that human fears and hatreds can be categorized without understanding them first.  -Kasreyn 02:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nonsense. Many people exhibiting transphobic behaviour are themselves homosexual, and exhibit no 'other' forms of homophobia. The MWMF is a perfect example, as is the occasional harrassment of residents of 'Camp Trans' nearby. Besides, fear and violent hatred of the different have semi-rational roots. That these are loathsome is beside the point, and not NPOV. 213.86.59.92 17:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

text:  Surely the distinction in terms of Wikipedia is in commonly accepted usage. Most organisations, including LGBT organisations, would not say discrimination against transfolk is homophobic. Legislation and workplace guidance, at least in the UK, is entirely different in both cases. They are not identical. Finally, the distinction should not be left up to 'the minds of the phobics', else we would end up with articles on paedophillia written by paedophiles.213.86.59.92 17:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you might find this indecorous, but who else would understand pedophilia well enough to write about it?  Why insist that articles on unpleasant subjects only be written by people who have never done anything unpleasant?  As long as he used proper sourcing, was respectful to other editors, and wrote in an encyclopedic style, I'd see nothing wrong with Charles Manson contributing to Wikipedia.  -Kasreyn 20:21, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sub-Cat of Homophobia

message: First, from gender identity:
"In sociology, gender identity describes the gender with which a person identifies (i.e, whether one perceives oneself to be a man, a woman, or describes oneself in some less conventional way),"
"One such case is that of David Reimer, reported in As Nature Made Him by John Colapinto. It details the persistence of a male gender identity and the stubborn adherence to a male gender role of a person whose penis had been totally destroyed shortly after birth as the result of a botched circumcision, and who had subsequently been surgically reassigned by constructing female genitalia. So the term "gender identity" is broader than the sex of the individual as determined by examination of the external genitalia."
The fact someone has a male gender identity does not mean that he's living as a man. For a lot of reasons, por example, social pressure, he could be living as a woman (probably because he was assigned as a woman; because of his genitals, etc.). So we can't say people change gender identity or (better than this) we can't say every trans person change their gender identity. People change their gender role (or gender expression) because of (a lot of times) a inner gender identity! (by some point of view)
Changing gender identity?? It sound bizarre!
From transexuality 
Psychological techniques that attempt to alter gender identity to one considered appropriate for the person's assigned sex have been shown to be ineffective, as stated above. Therefore, it is generally accepted that the only effective course of treatment for transsexual people is sex reassignment therapy.
Hugs, Alinefr 05:00, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you please synthesize that?  As in, I see your sources, but what point precisely are you trying to make?  I still wonder whether your grasp on the terminology is accurate.  Sex is the physical genitalia of the body, which can be changed by surgery or injury.  Gender identity is a state of being; if you believe in a soul then it's part of that, otherwise it's a complex result of brain processes.  To the best of my knowledge gender identity may take its cues from society and/or the existing genitalia, but isn't ruled by those factors.  A person with male sex may express female gender identity, even while still occupying a male body.  Is this what you find bizarre?  Kasreyn 08:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A person with male sex may have a female gender identity, even while still living as a man. Alinefr 10:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is precisely my point.  I suppose a male-sexed female-gendered person can live "as" male, ie. remain in the closet so to speak, but outward behavior isn't a real indicator of what a person really is.  So, what is bizarre?  I'm still confused.  Kasreyn 22:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender identity x gender expression 

message: Note that each of the following, from official offices of the UK, make a distinct differentiation between homophobia and transphobia...
* http://www.communitiesscotland.gov.uk/stellent/groups/public/documents/webpages/cs_009128.pdf
* http://www.leics.police.uk/files/library/documents/hate_crime.pdf
* http://www.bristol-city.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/download/asset/?asset_id=10996056
* http://www.barking-dagenham.gov.uk/6-living/equality/pdf/breaking-silence-report2003.pdf
* http://www.dca.gov.uk/constitution/transsex/wgtrans.pdf
There are undoubtedly many many more links from UK government websites that cite "transphobia" and some even describe what it is.
I only wish I had more time to further cite the article! Crimsone 01:20, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources which do/may confirm the legitimacy and existence of "transphobia"