Talk:César Franck

message: While it is true that Franck's cyclical method influenced later composers, it seems flatly untrue that Berlioz or Saint-Saens were beneficiaries of this influence.  Berlioz died in 1869, well before any of Franck's major works were even written or published.  Saint-Saens outlived Franck by several decades, but reportedly loathed Franck's style.  If anyone can back up tis assertion otherwise, I'll renstert the sentence. Brennan Milligan 22:45, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Influenced Berlioz and Saint-Saens?

message: TBHecht, I think the paragraph "The Man" doens't say enough to be considered as an apart paragraph.  I even doubt the text; the text is basically concerning his influence (cyclic form); therefore, I think this sentence could be added to "Influence". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Friendly (talk • contribs) 17:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  the man 

message: It looks like the citations are missing. At the moment, the notable recordings aren't referenced, but it looks like they are. Can anyone fix this? ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 01:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: His decision to give up a career as a virtuoso led to strained relations with his father during this time.v.  
I may be hilariously unaware of something, but I'm sincerely ignorant of what "v" is as a reference.
Richard David Ramsey 22:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing notes 

message: Please do not remove this on the grounds of WP:EL. This page has information about and music by Franck. As WP:EL says, the officially sanctioned online site of a rock band has a direct and symmetric relationship to that rock band, and thus should be linked from the rock band's Wikipedia article. My Franck page fits this as closely as any deceased composer's page would. His music is all out of copyright, he has no official record label. Therefore, this is a page which should be linked to. --Vox Humana 8' 22:12, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It also says to avoid "social networking sites" (such as Myspace). It ALSO says to avoid "Links to blogs and personal webpages, except those written by a recognized authority." -- are you a recognized athority? ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 22:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe not recognised, but I do know a lot about Franck. My mother is a professional organist and I have known the music of César Franck since birth.--Vox Humana 8' 12:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your MySpace page on Cesar Franck is interesting and witty, but regrettably it definitely can't be linked to a Wikipedia article, as it violates WP:EL on several grounds: (1) social networking (MySpace); (2) blog; (3) a link to your own website; (4) COPYVIO (the recorded music), etc. I've deleted it accordingly. JGHowes talk -  12:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not social networking - as it's a music page, it's music promotion. Also, the copyright on Franck's music expired in 1965, so the Copyvio claim is without foundation. It's not a blog, either. The 'blog' function is used solely to educate its readership about the music. The own website thing hardly applies, either - I merely run the page. It is in effect Franck's website. I get no glorification from that page.--Vox Humana 8' 12:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Can we put the link here in the talk page? There are several wikipedia policies which maybe well meaning but dogmatic adherence to them is only an irritation for those who want to use the wikipedia as a source of information.  The links are extremely useful for those who want to know more, even if those more pedantic ideology bound wikipedians disaprove. --Godfinger 00:35, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: The MySpace page link 

message: This line appears in this article twice, and is quoted only once. I suspect that if it is quoted in the other instance it would sound even more odd. Maybe one of them should be removed. I don't know, it just sounds awkward. 128.194.39.250 (talk) 20:48, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  ...a man of utmost humility, simplicity, reverence and industry 

message: It's misleading to say he was born in a country that didn't exist at the time. Peter jackson (talk) 10:56, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Belgium? 

message: I've provided two of three missing citations; in the case of the second (covering 1848-1858) I've supplied some additional details that came to light while I was checking sources.  I'm uncertain as to what the remaining query should cover, since there are both some factual statements in this paragraph thus tagged and what amounts to an opinion as to the quality of the "Grande Piece Symphonique".  The facts should be easily verifiable, and with some very minor editing should be easily citable.  I have no quarrel with the opinion as such - although critcs seem to vary: see Vallas vs. Davies - but it probably should come from An Authority of some sort.  The source citation for the Concise Grove should also probably be cleaned up by, among other things, citing the writer of the article on Franck rather than the general editor of the work, as well as making sure that the title is correct.  I think it may be the Norton/Grove Concise Encyclopedia of Music, with other minor adjustments.  Originalylem (talk) 23:00, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed and References 

message: For this article, it would probably be more correct to first refer to this church by its original name and status as a parish church (1856), which it was during Franck's lifetime.  As with the reference to Liège as part of the Netherlands at the time of Franck's birth but becoming part of Belgium when that kingdom was formed in 1830, a parenthetical or other phrase would help place the church in its current status as a minor basilica (1896), which title is often used today.  The parish itself uses both "Paroisse Sainte Clotilde" and "Basilique Sainte Clotilde" .  I leave it to the stylemasters to weigh in on how they'd like to refer to a French church in an article written in English; but unless someone objects violently, I will eventually revert the reference in the Biography paragraph 3 to its original denotation as a parish church, which is how Franck would have known it.  The real point, of course, is the organ.  Originalylem (talk) 18:23, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Sainte Clotilde

message: I'm surprised this article makes no mention of César's brother, Joseph Franck (31 October 1825, Liège - 20 November 1891, Issy-les-Moulineaux) who was also a composer and pianist.4meter4 (talk) 10:40, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the chief question would be "notability" as the Wiki community defines and practices it.  If J. Franck merits an article - even a short one - of his own, then he certainly should be cross-referenced to his elder brother and vice-versa.  I'm not sure how well Joseph is known outside (or even within) France.  One test might be whether Joseph is covered in, for example, any edition of Grove's Dictionary of Music, or the Oxford Companion to Music, particularly the more recent editions.  If he's in one or more of those or similar publications, Joseph probably ought to be featured in Wikipedia, and the cross-references would follow.  It's worth checking out.  Originalylem (talk) 13:28, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't necessarily saying an article should be created on J. Franck; just that a brief mention in César's biography would be a good idea. It's of biographical interest to César and therefore worth noting here, regaurdless of Joseph's notability on his own.4meter4 (talk) 13:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joseph Franck  

message: It certainly was awkward of C. Franck to have the parents he did and be born where he was, compounded by the subsequent history of that birthplace; but I can't help thinking that the quadruple nationality added to the article's first sentence is not helpful or accurate in any categorizing of Franck or his music.  I know of no (reputable) source which would not characterize Franck's music as part of French culture, and (to the extent of my review of secondary and not primary sources) Franck never identified himself with any country other than France.  Possibly the easiest solution which still fits the facts would be to drop the usual nationality adjectives here and to rewrite the sentence to specify his composition of French music.  The specifics of his birthplace and ancestry can then be left to the biographical section.  Comments?  Originalylem (talk) 02:29, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds like a good idea to me. The current text is a mess. Graham87 02:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dutch? Belgian? French? German? 

message: I've been looking everywhere for them, 
1. FWV 35 Fantaisie La(=A) Majeur
2. FWV 36 Cantabile Si(=B) Majeur
3. FWV 37 Pièce Héroïque si(=b) mineur
Does anyone know them (there are just 3) or where to find them, preferably a list of ALL of his opus numbers.  All I have is the FWV catalog, which is OK, but I want the original opus numbers of Franck himself, not a modern cataloger.  Thanks.
Russ D.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.115.51 (talk) 13:01, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you tried this webpage: ? It can be found by following the first External Link listed at: [*  Catalogue des oeuvres at List of compositions by César Franck. Although no Opus number is given for those two, alas. There are quite a lot without any, in fact. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:47, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  3 Pieces of 1878 Franck Opus numbers? 

message: The standard for composers with Wikipedia seems to be to state their nationality in the first sentence. For example, "Beethoven was a German composer" and "Brahms was a German composer and pianist". 
I think we should adopt this standard. For ideas, the French article states "Franck was a teacher, organist and composer of Belgian origin, naturalized French in 1870" (i.e. professeur, organiste et compositeur d'origine belge, naturalisé français en 1870).
The German article states "Franck was a French composer and organist of German-Belgian background/ancestry" (i.e. war ein französischer Komponist und Organist deutsch-belgischer Abstammung).
How about "Franck was a Belgian-born composer and organist of French citizenship"? Something like this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.88.82.18 (talk) 02:47, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: For one thing, he wasn't "Belgian-born" because when he was born there was no such thing as Belgium. —  Cliftonian (talk)  07:59, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revise Nationality discussion 

message: For reasons I have forgotten (I'm not a huge fan of Franck), I have made a sortable table at User:MinorProphet/César Franck - List of works which combines the contents of 
* List of compositions by César Franck by genre
* List of compositions by César Franck by opus number
which clarifies the FWV and Opus numbering, and (I hope) fills out the gaps/errors in both lists. The table need a few finishing touches, eg italics for titles, etc.
Although I feel that text lists are visually infinitely more pleasing than a table, they make it very difficult to compare composition/publication dates and so on, especially in cases like Franck's works. I am proposing a merge of both pages into List of compositions by César Franck (currently a disambig), to replace both the current pages. I have posted this message on both the respective talk pages, and also here. It might be best to reply on my own talk page, to keep the discussion in one place. >MinorProphet (talk) 13:02, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: MinorProphet (talk) 07:03, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, as stated above, I wasn't a huge fan of←the Muscles from Brussels er, shurely you mean Eddie Merkx, or was that Hergé, hmm, that's enough famous Belgians→our César. But just the other day I heard Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne, and for a man born in a fairly flat part of Northern Europe, it's not too bad. My rendering of the title is Heard on the mountainside, and for my money it knocks Liszt into a cocked hat. MinorProphet (talk) 07:07, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: ... er... are you side-referencing operettist Hervé? ... Schissel | Sound the Note! 03:34, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal for lists of works 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: (Edit: whoopsie, I forgot I didn't change it here, I changed the dates at the Hulda (opera) page itself. My mistake.) - Eric S. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schissel (talk • contribs) 03:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hulda dates 

message: Hello—
[This revert] by  is puzzling me; part of  its summary above all "rv, not needed, too old, unclear sourcing format". I understand the sourcing format was not good. OK, fair enough, sorry, but it could have been amended. But: not needed/ too old? This cannot be serious. Not needed? Too old? Too OLD? We should be overjoyed to have a contemporary testimony  (Vincent d'Indy's) about Franck's hands, somebody who actually saw them, and to have the document fully quoted available, saying that: "Comme Weber, Franck avait les mains fort grandes, il lui arrive, en conséquence, fréquemment d’écrire des accords qui exigent un extrême écartement du pouce au cinquième doigt ; certains passages, en raison de ces écarts, sont donc assez difficiles à noter sur deux portées,"  It is in French, true, but can be translated. As for the second part of the revert, I am less puzzled. I understand it is important to know if  in Smith's book, it is the musical intervals
or the number of keys that is mentioned, but as it amounts to just the same, I had erased the template asking for this to be checked. A note (mentioning either) or a parenthesis would seem better than a template asking for clarification, I thought, and still do think so. I leave this comment here for other contributors with more interest in old things to judge what is best. --U.A.— 22:43, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Firstly, maybe it's just because I use a screen reader, but I couldn't figure out what book you were actually using from the link and the sourcing information you gave. Secondly, as a tertiary source, Wikipedia generally prefers reliable secondary sources as opposed to contemporary  accounts. Putting extra references in sentences with no further context is a form of refboombing, though this example is much milder than those given in the linked essay. D'Indy's biography of Franck seems to be used quite often in the article in an English translation ... that translation should be used for any further citations to the work, though I don't think d'Indy's quote about Franck's large hands is compelling enough to use here in full. Having said all that, I've added a link to the French Wikisource version of the book in the references section. Graham87 03:41, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for your reply. d'Indy book is indeed quoted in its English translation in the page but I don't have it and cannot quote it fully. The issue was apparently to resolve the problem raised by the "refneed" template with a full quote but if all users think it is better the way it is, fine. I still think that a fully quoted contemporary account of this kind of physical fact has a strong weight and, less importantly, that, as for whether C. Franck's hand span was expressed either in number of keys or as a musical interval in Smith's book, it is not a real issue; but again, thank you for your time. Yours, --U.A.— 10:07, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hands 

message: Grove here gives "Franck, César(-Auguste-Jean-Guillaume-Hubert)", i.e. all hyphenated? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:59, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name syntax 

message: — Assignment last updated by Jmares3218 (talk) 03:41, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: 19th Century Concert Life