Talk:Gautama Buddha in Hinduism

message: I don't know what this means:  While taking Buddhism & giving Buddhism to Lakhs of people (this is just one example).  It would be very helpful to English readers who are coming here to learn about Buddhism, or at least to this one, if someone who is very knowledgable in Buddhism and the original languages and in English could edit the text. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 20:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. It seems to be implying that a layman (Ambedkar) gave the precepts and refuges, which would not make sense. I will have to check this out. Mitsube (talk) 04:19, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact he did break from tradition and do that himself. Mitsube (talk) 05:41, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  grammar and syntax of text 

message: This section contains certain event/facts which were published in December 1999 issue of the Vipashyana Patrikā.  Removing the content without talking about it, will not solve the issue. ...........Ranjithsutari (talk) 11:14, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Here this article is not to prove or disprove the theory of re-incarnation of Vishnu as Gautama the Buddha. As it is stated in some hindu text it will not prove that Buddha is an incarnation of Vishnu which is a bias itself. Dr.B.R.Ambedkar along with millions of people in one voice vowed that this theory is sheer madness and false propaganda. Now this is an incident which has happened in presence of a million people, whatever has happened this is a fact not bias. Here If I say that this fact is a good/bad then it is WP:POV. If 'misbelief' is like shouting then suggest any other word. The sources are fair and reliable. Now the question of significance of S. N. Goenka and his views can be learned from his works, but  this communiqué is to considered because it is made at the Maha Bodhi Society....................Ranjithsutari (talk) 21:57, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Buddha is an incarnation of Vishnu" is Hindu belief, B.R.Ambedkar's statement is his belief, none is a misbelief. Ambedkar's views are noteworthy as he was de-facto leader of the Neo-Buddhists of India but the reference is an wikipedia article, which is unreliable. Ambedkar does not explicitly say that Buddha is an incarnation of Vishnu, what is written in the article is WP:original research. Goenka's statement on Vipassana would be an authority, but on Buddhism at large, his authority is questionable. He making a statement at some Buddhist society does not make it the official stand of the Society at large. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  05:43, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an official statement(communiqué) released jointly by Goenka, Shankaracharya and Jayendra Saraswathi at Maha Bodhi Society, now questioning their authority is nothing but the problem of bias, Here we may not be concerned about the authority and consensus on the communiqué, finding absolute consensus on this communiqué is nothing but the problem of bias. Maha Bodhi Society is an international organisation, and its achievements/works are universally accepted by Buddhists. I appreciate your partial agreement of B.R.Ambedkars' view. If Misbelief is not a correct word please suggest another word.............  Ranjithsutari (talk) 18:09, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's as notable as some other statements in the article, I think. Who are the Hindu figures we are talking about? I think it hinges on that. Mitsube (talk) 05:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  (edit conflict) I agree that B.R.Ambedkar's view is notable, but whatever is written using the unreliable sources is original research. Find a reference that explicitly says that Ambedkar did not believe that Buddha was not an avatar. The statement "Now Buddhists, Atheists and many other people don't believe that Buddha was incarnation of Vishnu" is original research too and needs a reference. The source given for Goenka's statement is his own newsletter (non-neutral) and promotes his views and does not officially reflect the views of the Maha Bodhi Society. The site or a publication of the Maha Bodhi Society is a better source to assert their views. The Society can be considered an authority, but Goenka is a Vipassana guru, not a Buddhist leader/authority, who represents the Buddhist views. If there is consensus that the views are notable, then please revert. The new title for MISBELIEF suggested by me is "Buddhist views"--Redtigerxyz  Talk  05:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems reliable: . Did you really doubt that Ambedkar rejected the belief that the Buddha was an avatar of Vishnu? Mitsube (talk) 05:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually I didn't doubt it, but reference used was a wiki article (not RS). I am adding this source to the article, though I still can't understand why a non-religious leader's (Goenka's) views should be represented notable? However, the same view if asserted by the Society is notable. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  05:35, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that Goenka's view isn't that important here, as a Buddhist of course he doesn't believe the Buddha was an avatar of Vishnu. But if there are some prominent Hindus saying that that is more interesting. The sourcing should be better, I agree. Mitsube (talk) 05:38, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not every Buddhist's view reflects the view of all Buddhists. He is the Dalai Lama or leader of a prominent Buddhist organization. It should be noted that Goenka's Vippasana organization does not directly associate with/propagate any religion including Buddhism. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  05:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

text: This section has been renamed "Opinions and reactions" because "Buddhist reactions" was apparently not NPOV? "Opinions and reactions" is vague because it could refer to the rest of the article as well. So what should it be called, and what is its function in the article? Shreevatsa (talk) 16:42, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to continue this discussion as a sub-section, because this section was name as "MISBELIEF" earlier. Then after as the section name is loud and POV some editors have objected for including in this article, after discussions at last the section is renamed as "Buddhist views". Now I have changed this section to "Opinions and reactions" because it also include the views/opinions of non-Buddhists and reactions of millions of people along with Babasheb Ambedkar.--Ranjithsutari (talk) 18:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, I'm asking what the section has to do with "Gautama Buddha in Hinduism". I guess the second part does, if we can show these views are important, but the first one seems to be about the converse, something like "Hindu gods in Buddhism". It is relevant to the rest of the article only if it is somehow related to "Gautama Buddha in Hinduism" — the only relation I can imagine is that it's a Buddhist reaction to "Gautama Buddha in Hinduism". Calling it "opinions and reactions" is too vague; the title could describe the rest of the article as well. Shreevatsa (talk) 19:13, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This talk will be confusing if we do not include the previous discussion. The importance and notability of this section is already answered in above discussions. According to me This articles' title(Gautama Buddha in Hinduism) itself is Vague, Gautama Buddha existed 2500 years ago, where as word "Hinduism" is just 200 years old. One has to ask himself How Gautama Buddha  is related to Hinduism?.--Ranjithsutari (talk) 08:57, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  MISBELIEF 

message: Recall that the article is on Gautama Buddha in Hinduism — Hindu views on the Buddha. Now obviously Buddhists, as they do not believe in Vishnu, do not believe that Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu; this goes without saying. So what exactly is the point of the section? I believe it is to illustrate Buddhist reactions to Hindu views on the Buddha. (So I renamed it Buddhist reactions.) Still, the "joint communiqué" doesn't seem to fit in the section, unless Goenka is notable as a Buddhist leader/scholar, or the location where the announcement was made gives it sufficient prominence. Is either of this true? In any case, do we need such a detailed statement? Shreevatsa (talk) 05:41, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This section has been renamed "Opinions and reactions" because "Buddhist reactions" was apparently not NPOV? "Opinions and reactions" is vague because it could refer to the rest of the article as well. So what should it be called, and what is its function in the article? Shreevatsa (talk) 16:42, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to continue this discussion as a sub-section, because this section was name as "MISBELIEF" earlier. Then after as the section name is loud and POV some editors have objected for including in this article, after discussions at last the section is renamed as "Buddhist views". Now I have changed this section to "Opinions and reactions" because it also include the views/opinions of non-Buddhists and reactions of millions of people along with Babasheb Ambedkar.--Ranjithsutari (talk) 18:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, I'm asking what the section has to do with "Gautama Buddha in Hinduism". I guess the second part does, if we can show these views are important, but the first one seems to be about the converse, something like "Hindu gods in Buddhism". It is relevant to the rest of the article only if it is somehow related to "Gautama Buddha in Hinduism" — the only relation I can imagine is that it's a Buddhist reaction to "Gautama Buddha in Hinduism". Calling it "opinions and reactions" is too vague; the title could describe the rest of the article as well. Shreevatsa (talk) 19:13, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This talk will be confusing if we do not include the previous discussion. The importance and notability of this section is already answered in above discussions. According to me This articles' title(Gautama Buddha in Hinduism) itself is Vague, Gautama Buddha existed 2500 years ago, where as word "Hinduism" is just 200 years old. One has to ask himself How Gautama Buddha  is related to Hinduism?.--Ranjithsutari (talk) 08:57, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Buddhist views''

message: The Buddha claims to be, among other Indian deities, Vishnu in the Lankavatara Sutra, Chapter 3, section LXXVI: "The Tathagata variously designated". http://lirs.ru/do/lanka_eng/lanka-nondiacritical.htm 
64.90.143.2 (talk) 17:25, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That's interesting. (I took the liberty of formatting the quote and adding emphasis.) I'm not sure whether it's worth adding into the article (and where), though: Vishnu is just one name among many here, but it does seem notable.... Shreevatsa (talk) 02:19, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

text: For information about the Buddha's teaching, it is best to refer to the oldest records rather than later ones. The Buddha recounted his numerous past lives in details in the Jatakas. The Buddha was born in all sorts of planes before he became a Buddha ( refer to Buddhist Cosmology(Theraveda) for a detailed list of the 31 planes of existence). After Awakening, there is no identification with any incarnation as the permanent self. All these identities from past lives are impermanent and considered not-self after awakening. Vishnu was a deva in one of the  planes was present while he was alive. About his past lives Buddha mentioned in the Itivuttaka edition of the Khuddaka Nikaya that:
[blockquote]
Whenever the eon contracted I reached the "Plane of Streaming Radiance", and when he eon expanded I arose in an empty divine mansion. And there I was Brahma, the great Brahma, the unvanquished victor, the all-seeing, the all-powerful. Thirty-six times I was Sakka, ruler of the devas. And many hundreds of times I was a wheel-turning monarch, righteous, a king of righteousness, conqueror of the four regions of the earth, maintaining stability in the land, in possession of the seven treasures.
[/blockquote]
Note: there are many brahmas in the brahma plane of existence according to the Buddha. His visits to these planes and conversations with various brahmas were recorded in the Pali Canon. --Simpliciti (talk) 10:48, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  required citation: Lankavatara Sutra 

message: Is there any indication of how many Hindus believe in the Buddha, be it as an incarnation of Vishnu or in some other sense?24.189.108.166 (talk) 17:17, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Percent? 

message: Regarding this addition and its subsequent removal: the main problem is not the status of accessofinsight, but the fact that this addition is a comment, c.q. WP:OR. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:36, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: More specifically, primary sources are not WP:RS for assertions like this as they require interpretation, and we rely on quoting and summarising what scholars say about those sources. Ogress smash! 07:43, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avatar of Vishnu & accesstoinsight 

message: Removed section:
Gautam was the son of King suddhodana and he was born in NepalGautama Buddha but the avatar Buddha is the son of Ajana. He was born in kikata (present Bihar). 
Gautam Buddha and the God Buddha are two different persons according to bhagwatam.Hindi Article: Bhagwan Buddha ka janma isthala kikata Desh main, Nepal nahi By Aacharya Siyarama Dasa Naiyayik
Tatah kalau sampravritte sammohaya suradwisham।
Buddho namnajanasutah keekateshu bhavishyati।। (Bhagwatam 1|3|24)
Buddhavataramah। ajanasya susah। kikateshu madhye gaya pradeshe।।
(by the famous commentator Shridhara)
~AbHi, Problems with the section:
* While several references in the article clearly state that the Buddha of Hinduism is the same individual as the founder of Buddhism, removing references to Gautama Buddha is WP:POV pushing of a WP:FRINGE. 
* The reference is not a WP:RS. Please provide scholarly references that they prove that this theory is notable FRINGE. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  16:21, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deference Between avatar Buddha and Gautamsection 

message: This article is completely wrong. Gautama Buddha and Adi Buddha are two different persons. Gautama Buddha is the founder of Buddhism. Adi Buddha was the incarnation of Vishnu he did not create a separate religion like Gautama Buddha. Lord Adi Buddha, believed to be incarnation of Vishnu, appeared in the province of Gaya (Bihar) as the son of Anjana, while Gautama Buddha (originally Siddhartha) was son of King Shuddhodhana and Queen Mahamaya. In that time, they belongled to Shakya Kula, and Gautam Gotra. The traditional Vedic system was present viz, Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaisya and Shudra in those times but it was not called as Hinduism yet. So Siddhartha was Kshatriya, born in Shakya Kula in the present Nepal.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slgprakash (talk • contribs) 14:51, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gautama Buddha is not an incarnation of Vishnu 

message: Bhagavata Purana (1.3.24) states that Vishnu will be incarnated as Buddha on the onset of Kali Yuga in the Kikata region: "Then after full advent of the Kali Age, (He) will be born with Buddha as His name, and as a son of Ajana in the Kīkaṭa country."
Buddha avatar is said to take birth as a son of Ajana or Ajina or Jina (frequently misspelt as Añjana or Añjanā) among the Kikatas (in the province of Gaya), while Gautama Buddha was born to Śuddhodana of the Sakya clan from Kapilvastu. Hence, many believe that the two Buddhas were different individuals.
Francis Buchanan-Hamilton, in his account of the survey of Gaya in 1811-1812, mentions the four Buddhas of the present, viz. Kakusandha, Koṇāgamana, Kasyapa, and Gautama, being referred to as Mahamuni, Chandamuni, Sakyamuni, and Gautamamuni, respectively. Buchanan mentions that some consider Mahamuni to be the real founder of Buddhism, and believe that the Mahabodhi Temple was originally dedicated to Mahamuni (or Mahabuddha). He also notes that the Rajput pujaris at the temple worshipped Mahamuni as an incarnation of Vishnu.
Jagadguru Shankaracharya Sri Jayendra Saraswati of Kanchi Kamakoti Peeth and Swami Shri Nischalanada Saraswati, the Shankaracharya of Govardhan Peeth have stated that they do not consider Gautama Buddha to be an avatar of Vishnu.
Among the adherents of the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada regarded Gautama Buddha as an avatar of Krishna and so do most of his followers at ISKCON. Other gurus of the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition such as Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha and Srila Narayana Gosvami (a.k.a. Srila Gurudeva) did not consider Gautama Buddha to be an avatar of Krishna/Vishnu, but believed another Buddha ("Sugata Buddha" or "Bhagavata Buddha") to be the avatar.
;References
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Yuyutsu Ho (talk • contribs) 8 june 2021 (UTC)
:Why don't you just try to find some decent academic sources? here's also a source, thouygh unfortunately not exactly WP:RS; but it is in support of your point of view. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:04, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I just don't understand why I need an "academic source" to mention something that is present in official websites of the people concerned. Yuyutsu Ho (talk) 13:12, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:RS and WP:SYNTHESIS. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:10, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text proposal III 

message: Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty (1988), The Origins of Evil in Hindu Mythology, pp. 198 ff, contains usefull info. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:22, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty, ''The Origins of Evil in Hindu Mythology''