Talk:Butterfly (Mariah Carey album)

message: it is 15million http://www.undercover.com.au/News-Story.aspx?id=4687 this reference assures it but someone keeps on deleting it  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.206.65.107 (talk) 22:02, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree completly. The article on Undercover.com.au is adding to every album few millions and there is absolutely no other source to prove these high numbers. Butterfly didn't even sell 12 millions, but I'm leaving this number and its source  till I find a better one with more realistic number. Max24 (talk) 11:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: worldwide sales

message: Anon editors were changing the worldwide sales figure without citing a source, so I removed it. Please cite reliable sources for information like this. Extraordinary Machine 17:27, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worldwide sales 

message: :Image:Butterfly-austriacdalbumbookletfront.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 07:34, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Butterfly-austriacdalbumbookletfront.jpg

message: Only mariah was credited with writing butterfly, it's in the offical booklet.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.230.62 (talk) 13:13, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You are......Wait for it.....almost there....totally.....WRONG!!! They wrote it together buddy. Now run along and stop being disruptive!--CallMeNathan  • Talk2Me  13:17, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  There are no co-writers! 

message: Just a few queries so far:
*The background section does not say when Carey began work on the album, which may be a nice starting point.
*How reliable is the story of the argument between Walter Afanasieff and Carey (it originally said "reportedly")? I've altered it, but if the source is not reliable, it may be better left out.
*As the change of direction was obviously a big thing, is it worth commenting on the direction of her previous albums? (This seems a reasonable and independent summary) --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:18, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy-edit 

message: *"The album received generally positive reviews from music critics, who praised Carey's musical transformation and direction." Ref is given to allmusic but this does not entirely support the sentence as written: it just seems to be a one off review and so really the sentence should simply say that Stephen Thomas Erlewine said this, rather than critics in general. Altered this to fit, and also cut down on the over use of quotes in this section; kept content but paraphrased much more of it.--Sarastro1 (talk) 22:06, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Critical reception:

message: *The information about what platinum/gold/etc means (in terms of shipments) interupt the flow of this section and may be better removed altogether or into a note. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:29, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Chart performance:

message: *I'm slightly worried by the refs in this section. Several of them do not support what is written and need checking. As such, I have not copyedited this section until this has been looked at. If I have missed something on the linked page which gives the information (it has been known!) it needs clarifying in the ref.
*What are "airplay-only singles": Seems fairly straightforward, but a brief explanation would be good, for example why were some released in this format?
*And reiterate what I said about platinum, etc, from previous section. I'm inclined to put it in a note so that the information is there but does not distract from the article.
*""Honey" was well-received, with critics complimenting its catchy sound and clever fusion of pop and R&B sounds." This is not supported by the ref to allmusic.
*""Butterfly" served as the album's second single, but it was released as an "airplay-only" single due to Carey's conflict with Sony." Nor is this supported by the ref.
*"Though not being released commercially by her label, "Butterfly" reached number seven on the Hot 100 Airplay, as well as the top-twenty in New Zealand." Needs a ref.
*""Breakdown" was the third single released from the album. The song received a limited release throughout certain countries, such as the United States, where it peaked at number four on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs." This does not appear to be supported by the ref.
*"While not one of Carey's best-known hits, "Breakdown" remains one her most praised songs, receiving acclaim for assisting Carey's transition into the R&B market." Not supported by the ref.
*Some of the detail and analysis from the Slant review may be beneficial to add to the other parts of the article such as composition or review. --Sarastro1 (talk) 13:34, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Singles:

message: *Date for Saturday Night Live?
*"alongside "Honey"": I read this to mean she sang both songs at both appearances. Please correct if I'm wrong. 
*"and prior to that, she had already successfully toured through Europe and Asia with the Daydream World Tour" Not sure that I see the connection between this and her initial unwillingness to tour, as the reason already given was the mixed reception to her last tour. I've removed it for now, but if there is another reason for this sentence, please put it back.
*"many fans asked Carey to tour": Can we be more specific? Who asked her? How did they ask her? For example, did lots of fans write letters? --Sarastro1 (talk) 13:56, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Promotion

message: *Are we refering to the single Butterfly or the album in this section? --Sarastro1 (talk) 14:19, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Awards

message: *Hip-hop and R&B linked here, which is too late. I've unlinked them but they need linking in their first mention after the lead. --Sarastro1 (talk) 14:19, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Reaction to Honey and Music videos

message: *I think some parts of this article are a little too pro-Carey. I've taken out some of these parts, but it may be worth looking closely at the two main print sources. Are they a little too favourable towards her? If so, it doesn't mean they can't be used but they may need tempering with some other sources, particularly ones which are a little more critical or independent. --Sarastro1 (talk) 14:21, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: General

message: This album was obviously commercially successful, along with its two chart-topping singles. However, it represented a great drop from the 20+ million selling Daydream album. This album barely sold/shipped 10+ million globally.
I think the success section is written beautifully and the chart info is very concise, but there surely should be some sources commenting on the beginning of a downward trend in Mariah's career compared to her early-mid-90's heyday. This drop in album sales in the latter half of the 90s was also accompanied by a drastic drop of support by mainstream radio (reflected by her singles staying at #1 less, fueled by sales instead of radio). The wiki articles about her singles used to talk about this issue but it has since been less covered/removed.
Do you think this issue is worth talking about or not? I mean this album was by no means a disappointment, it did like over 11-12 million, but I still think it would make the article reflect a more accurate picture of the commercial transition that MC was going through.
--Blamestars (talk) 04:25, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commercial Success 

message: Both of these lines appear in the lead section (albeit in different paragraphs):
Butterfly garnered generally positive reviews from contemporary music critics, 
and
Butterfly was acclaimed by critics
The first line indicates a more tepid response than the latter, and while these do not constitute a particularly egregious contradiction, they nonetheless do not appear to reflect the same reality. 50.193.171.69 (talk) 01:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead contradicts self? 

message: The article says that she began recording Butterfly in 1997, but in a Rosie O'Donnell episode, dated 21 November 1996 she says she had already begun recording (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tEQAfrLk-w @ 6:21) . She also says that she's preparing for her first upcoming World Tour, which is strange since at that point she just completed the Daydream Tour. Wonder why she doesn't consider that a World Tour... Anyway, according to that interview, she started recording in 1996. Anyone know a source which points to her starting the album in January of 1997?
Wizlardo (talk) 13:02, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mariah started recording Butterfly in 1996? 

message: The cover art File:Mcbutterfly.jpg used in the infobox for the album's article is, very incorrect because this is the cover art that was used on a 2005 reissue for a Australian CD, seen here at Discogs and you can also compare it to a original Australian 1997 pressing right here. Amazon seems to be also using the reissue cover art, but if you click the Audio CD Option, it will show the standard/original cover art as it was first seen (and marketed, and pressed) in 1997. 
The original cover art is the AMERICAN 1997 original release seen here,here,and here I do not see any other American 1997 pressing that uses the artwork in the infobox other than the American Represses. 
This situation is also similar to Madonna's studio album Bedtime Stories (1994) and Madame X (2019) and Lil' Kim's The Naked Truth (2005) where the submitter(s) would change or alter the cover art in the infoxbox, just because they saw the cover art on digital or streaming services. These problems have since been resolved.
If there are no objections or no update regarding this inquiry in the next four days, I will insist on submitting the correct artwork myself. 
the other ryan  (talk) 04:07, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please, do it! I'd prefer the other cover, it's better to my taste (this one), but change it for the right one that you posted above.--88marcus (talk) 04:48, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's the fourth day, preparing. the other ryan  (talk) 15:51, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. --the other ryan  (talk) 19:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The cover art is incorrect, it is actually a reissued cover art.