Talk:Religion and abortion

message: Could someone please archive this page, and close the sections now known to be authorered by a disruptive sockpuppet? Thanks to everyone with a level head, and especially our third opinion, Binksternet.--Tznkai (talk) 15:07, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Cheers! Binksternet (talk) 15:45, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  suggestion 

message: I took out a reference to Bowen, 2003 under the Muslim section. I don't know what book this is! It's not listed anywhere else in the article. I used instead a reference to Brockopp, google books URL and ISBN. Binksternet (talk) 14:42, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bowen reference, 2003 

message: I took out Canonlawyer79's drastic change of the Other Christian section, where he or she inserted a long list of Bible passages to illustrate that the Bible, indeed, included information about abortion. I hold that Bible passages which don't mention abortion and don't have anything about when the fetus is considered a human life, aren't worthy to be used as references here. Too much is open to interpretation; too much a matter of faith. I reverted mostly to the version prior, but with some copyediting. Binksternet (talk) 04:24, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that linking directly to Bible passages is improper and that the interpretation of such passages might vary considerably between Christian sects.  However, it might be worth noting that some Christians understand the Bible as speaking against abortion.  Some also see Exodus 21:22-25 as potentially allowing abortion.  This reference outlines the scriptural case against abortion and contains many of the Bible passages that were referenced previously by Canonlawyer79.  Does anyone think it would be worth including a statement like "some Christians interpret the Bible to prohibit abortion."? Twinkie eater91 (talk) 13:23, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That is absolutely valid. If a sect believes a passage says something related to abortion, using a published version of their statement is perfectly fine. The only thing I didn't like was having the Bible passages having no instance of the concept 'abortion' hang out there uninterpreted. Binksternet (talk) 15:42, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bible passages used as reference 

message: The article says that the Catholic Church accepts indirect abortion, i.e. in order to save the life of the mother during an ectopic pregnancy. While this is technically accurate, the article should perhaps note that several Catholic leaders have criticized the abusive use of indirect abortion for cases that may not actually be letal to the mother. Church leaders have also denounced the confusion between indirect abortion and therapeutic abortion, since they do not accept the notion that abortions can be therapeutic. See the article indirect abortion for more details. ADM (talk) 22:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Indirect abortion

message: The Catholic Church doesn't morally accept any abortion for any reason even if the life of the mother is "saved".
Read this:
From: 
Fundamental Dignity at Every Stage of Life: An Argument Against Abortion Rights Featuring the Rev. J. Daniel Mindling
Featuring:
The Rev. J. Daniel Mindling, Professor of Moral Theology, Mount St. Mary's Seminary 
To explore the case against abortion rights, the Pew Forum turns to the Rev. J. Daniel Mindling, a professor of moral philosophy and academic dean at Mount St. Mary's Seminary in Emmetsburg, Md. In addition to his academic duties, Mindling serves as a consultant to the Secretariat for Pro-Life Activities at the U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops.
Interviewer:
David Masci, Senior Research Fellow, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
Let me shift gears on you and ask: Is there ever a case in which terminating a pregnancy is justified? If a woman is going to die without an abortion, is there a valid reason to perform the procedure?
St. Paul is pretty clear: we shouldn't do evil that good would come of it. The dignity of the unborn child is not lost because the mother's life is at risk. The dignity of the unborn child isn't lost because the mother would prefer not to have this child. The dignity of the unborn child isn't something that the mother bestows on the child and that the mother is free to take away at will.
But if a mother dies because she hasn't received an abortion, her fetus may die as well. So some would argue that it would be better to abort the fetus and save the mother's life as opposed to losing both of them.
Let's use the word "murder" just because of its shock value. This person is going to die unless we murder this other person? Would it be okay, then, to murder? Would it be okay for me to murder to save one life or two lives or three? How many lives would it take before it would be okay for me to murder? I think we are not free to change the moral quality of the act and say, "Well, I guess it's not murder then because something good may come of it." Murder is always wrong. --Rcatholic (talk) 22:53, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Rcatholic.  This is exactly what the present version of the article says.  To quote the article "The Roman Catholic Church believes that life begins at conception and, as such, opposes abortion under all circumstances."  However, it think is important that information about the Principle of Double Effect be included in the article, so that people unfamiliar with the subject understand it.  I don't think the Catholic Church's position on abortion could be more clearly and concisely put than it is now. -Twinkie eater91 (talk) 23:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If your going to talk about "double-effect," you also need to mention that abortion is considered an intrinsic evil. In other words, according to the CC, direct abortion is ALWAYS morally wrong--regardless of intention. Also, isn't it kind of stupid to say that the CC "believes that life begins at conception" since it is a scientific fact that life begins at conception? Better to say, "human life" begins at conception, but even this is misleading. If a an organism has human DNA, what else can it be but a human life? What really needs to be stated is that the CC believes that human personhood begins at conception. LCP (talk) 15:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Your terminology hits the point on the head, LCP, but most people (strangely) do not use it when discussing this matter. Most pro-choicers I've spoken with will openly deny that life begins at conception, even if what they REALLY MEAN is to deny that personhood begins at conception. -BaronGrackle (talk) 16:15, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I just took out the third paragraph in the Catholic section as its detail was more appropriate to the article Christianity and abortion. I also removed mention of the 5th commandment (the one against murder) because the catechism reference doesn't directly connect the commandment with abortion. Having the two concepts brought together here was in violation of WP:SYNTH. The source says abortion is a grave offense and morally evil; those words are retained in the section here. The third paragraph made the Catholic section too large, especially in light of having a link to the main article. Similarly-sized sections for Hinduism and Islam are the way they are because there is no link to a main article. Binksternet (talk) 17:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good edits for the most part. Two things. First, I'm not so sure inclusion of the 5th commandment is WP:SYNTH since the section of the Catechism that contains abortion begins with the 5th commandment, implying that everything in that section pertains to the 5th commandment. Second, I think some mention of Catholic Social teaching (the third paragraph deleted) needs to be included since it is unique and an integral part of Catholic Teaching on abortion. Other religions say make statements about the morality of abortion; as far as I know, only Catholicism states directly that the state has a positive role in protecting the unborn. I wouldn't object to a shorter version. Thoughts?LCP (talk) 21:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I see the 5th commandment section. The whole page is about the 5th.... Regarding the the church's position on the state, perhaps a single sentence can be introduced to the first paragraph stating the uniqueness of their stance. Binksternet (talk) 14:42, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catholicism and abortion 

message: This book has one sentence that is not sourced and is not explained, that claims most religions are against abortion.  If we are going to make that claim, we need a much better source.--IronAngelAlice (talk) 23:04, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "Human sex and sexuality" book 

message: If you have time, please take a look at this discussion regarding the debate on the talk page for Wikiproject Abortion. - Schrandit (talk) 18:48, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not me. I came here answering a request for a Wikipedia:Third opinion, not because the issue of abortion is high on my list of interests. My only connection to the abortion pages on WP is this one with its 3O request and any page in which Susan B. Anthony is wrongly portrayed as holding an abortion-related opinion that could be carried forward with full relevance and applied to the modern world, e.g. Feminists For Life. I don't need to add the abortion wikiproject's pages to my already-too-busy editing schedule. I think that the word "mother" reflects pro-lifer bias and carries emotion-laden propaganda baggage only if it is allowed by other people to be taken away from them and so recast in nuance. I would rather see all sides of the issue continue to use the word in its historically sloppy and imprecise manner. This way, it has many meanings and implications, including that of a female who begets a child (Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, 1979). Binksternet (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for sharing your view.  While I can't compel you to join us on the project page, it really is the place to go if you want your voice to be heard. CarolineWH (talk) 23:56, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Mother v. Pregnant Woman, the saga continues

message: Hindus hold varying stances on abortion. Some Hindu theologians believe personhood begins at 3 months and develops through to 5 months of gestation, possibly implying permitting abortion up to the third month and considering any abortion past the third month to be destruction of the soul's current incarnate body. Other Hindus have suggested that abortion, especially the abortion pill, is a major step towards women's empowerment. Hindus generally tend to support abortion in cases where the mother's life is at risk or when the fetus has a severe developmental abnormality. Hindu scholars and women's rights advocates have supported bans on Sex-selective Abortions. Some Hindus have argued that contraception such as emergency contraceptives are a major step towards women's empowerment and the prevention of abortions.
Individual Hindus hold varying stances on abortion; however, according to the BBC, traditional Hindu texts and teachings condemn elective abortions. Hindus generally tend to support abortion in cases where the mother's life is at risk or when the fetus has a severe developmental abnormality. Hindu scholars and women's rights advocates have supported bans on Sex-selective Abortions. A minority of Hindu theologians believe personhood begins at 3 months and therefore considering any abortion past the third month to be destruction of the soul's current incarnate body. Some Hindus have argued that contraception such as emergency contraceptives are a major step towards women's empowerment and the prevention of abortions.
;Refs
*http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/texts/texts.shtml
*http://www.eubios.info/EJ144/ej144j.htm
*Chapter 1: Dilemmas of Life and Death: Hindu Ethics in a North American Context | Date: 1995 | Author: Crawford, S. Cromwell
*http://www.thehindu.com/2009/07/30/stories/2009073060530400.htm
*http://www.thehindu.com/2009/04/01/stories/2009040150350300.htm
*http://www.hinduonnet.com/2003/03/09/stories/2003030907001000.htm
====Comments on Hindu section==== 
*Aside from the grammar and format problems in both versions, the entry from IronAngelAlice has to its advantage the revelation of the abortion pill, though it founders on repetition of empowerment. Both versions have some theologians saying personhood begins at three months, but what about those who believe differently? In contrast to 'some' theologians, the remainder would be the majority. Binksternet (talk) 00:10, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Hinduism

message: *Aside from the grammar and format problems in both versions, the entry from IronAngelAlice has to its advantage the revelation of the abortion pill, though it founders on repetition of empowerment. Both versions have some theologians saying personhood begins at three months, but what about those who believe differently? In contrast to 'some' theologians, the remainder would be the majority. Binksternet (talk) 00:10, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments on Hindu section

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Religion and abortion. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120218195040/http://faculty.cua.edu/Pennington/Law111/CatholicHistory.htm to http://faculty.cua.edu/Pennington/Law111/CatholicHistory.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110903232336/http://www.catholic.com/library/Abortion.asp to http://www.catholic.com/library/Abortion.asp
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:50, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: — Assignment last updated by Lunarmoon13 (talk) 19:22, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Honors World Religions