Talk:Excitotoxicity

message: This page appears to be part of a network of pages being edited to promote positions held in homeopathic and alternative medicine and contrary to the current scientific consensus. Specifically, it attempts to imply MSG is a toxic substance through pointed discussion of glutamate. These edits are possibly being made to push the views of Dr. Russell Blaylock specifically, however it may just be because these positions are quite prevalent in alternative medicine circles. This includes the pages on 2009 flu pandemic vaccine, Water_fluoridation_controversy, Dental amalgam controversy, and Aspartame.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.206.70.55 (talk • contribs) 1 January 2016 (UTC)
:No, excitotoxicity is a very real disorder and there exists a scientific consensus within the field of neuroscience as to it’s existence; it is a common form of neurotoxicity. Just because some homeopaths and alt. Med. practitioners pseudoscientifically claim their patients are suffering excitotoxicity because of X is in their body or missing from their body does not change this. As an example: Alt med people often misdiagnose people with candidiasis with bogus tests, but this does not mean there is no such thing as the medical condition called thrush caused by a Candida infection.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 01:20, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Concern

message: I don't know very much about this subject, so I apologize for any inaccuracies. I removed statements about the toxicity of MSG which lack mainstream scientific support, and which are adequately covered in that article.
Molybdenumblue 14:12, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: MSG

message: I removed the material related to the possible role of some food additives as neurotoxins. First, because it was copied directly from an article in a copyrighted journal. Second, because this wikipedia article is about the specific neurobiological process of excitotoxicity, not about neurotoxins (not all the toxins mentioned in the journal article are believed to work via excitotoxicity). If the editor wishes to expand on this material I would suggest starting a new article on that topic. Nrets 15:29, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Made more NPOV since there is a disagreement in the scientific community. One reference that discussed bioequivalence did have a study of people ingesting aspartame and showed a large aspartate spike. One reference showed only a small rise in aspartate. Balanced statement about Blood Brain Barrier (BBB) with statement about parts of brain unprotected by BBB -- an issue raised in scientific journal articles. Included reference to Science journal article on split opinion of neuroscientists on this issue. Twoggle (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Food Additives 

message: I know the Aspartic Acid in aspartame is an excitotoxin.  Shouldn't there be some sort of list of known excitotoxins on this page? Or is that on a different page? jess523s 00:43, 1 January 2006 (PST)
:Maybe a cursory list would be appropriate, but the focus of the article should be on the process of excitotoxicity. In my opinion, for a comprehensive list of excitotoxins (and mechanisms of action) might be better suited for a separate article. Nrets 18:22, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (18 years later) Yes, there should be some sort of list of known excitotoxins on this page. 76.190.213.189 (talk) 19:07, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of excitotoxins 

message: I would find it helpful if someone familiar with the field could identify current controversies surrounding excitotoxicity (e.g., is the cause of Delayed Calcium Deregulation still controversial, or has that been figured out?).  Can anyone list some of these controversies?  Or help me figure out where I can find out?  Thanks much, delldot | talk 21:19, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversies?

message: Should the source specificity controversy be addressed?  It was sparked by papers in the early 90's by Tymianski et al. that showed that calcium influx through NMDARs, not calcium load itself, was what was harmful to the cell.  Since then molecules linking nmdars to mediators of excitotoxicity such as nNOS have been found.  I think it's interesting because it conflicts with the traditionally widely held belief that calcium load alone is what's harmful to the cell.  But is this too obscure?  Thanks, delldot | talk 20:00, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Source specificity

message: I've just finished a large edit, converting refs to the current <ref> style, mostly. I hope this is ok with everyone. I don't expect anyone will have any problems with it, but if you do, let me know.  delldot | talk 06:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Major edit

message: I'm a little concerned about the food aditive section.  I think that this is a fairly marginal view. I don't believe that it is commonly accepted that excitotoxicity is involved in autism, though I admit I don't know.  All of the stuff I find sketchy is from this one guy, Blaylock and his website DORway.com. 
The argument that food additives such as MSG and aspartame are dangerous seems based around the idea that they can raise your blood plasma level of those amino acids in this article. But as I understand it, amino acids don't usually cross the blood brain barrier, so this doesn't produce a neurotoxic threat.  These amino acids already exist in the bloodstream in much higher concentrations than the brain could handle; thus when the BBB is breached, e.g. in head trauma, this has been thought to be a possible contributing factor to the glutamate rise found in that condition.  So anyway, I feel like this info might be misleading.  I'd like to add content to the article about how amino acids don't cross the bbb and how increased blood plasma level of these amino acids is not necessarily harmful. I have some sources (e.g. Tsuchioka T, Fujiwara T, and Sunagawa M. Effects of glutamic acid and taurine on total parenteral nutrition. Journal of Pediatric Surgery. 2006 Sep;41(9):1566-1572.  . Retrieved on January 31, 2007) and will find others.  I just wanted to put a note here so I could work with the other folks who maybe originally put this info in or have the opposite POV.  I'm going to go ahead and add the info in when I have it all, but if there's any problem we can discuss it here. I'd also like to discuss removing the :category:food safety, since I think it's at best tangentially related, and it's controversial (since you can't qualify something's membership in a category the way you can in a list, it has to be obvious and noncontroversial).  Let me know if you want to discuss this further.  Thanks, delldot | talk 17:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The belief that excitotoxins can't cross the blood-brain barrier is the official position by the "scientific establishment" and the government regulatory agencies that have declared aspartame and msg safe. However, there are quite a lot of studies that are hard to explain without assuming BBB-leaks. Look at the references I mentioned in the section below for a more nuanced view. MaxPont 08:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: "Soy proteins are also increasingly suspected of being excitotoxins as more evidence makes clearer their effect on the body's hormones. This has been studied with rats. Soy lecithin is likely the worst of all the soy proteins."
First of all, I can find no reliable sources to back the claim that soy is excitotoxic, although Dr. Russell Blaylock seems to be leading the specious crusade against hydrolyzed soy protein isolate without letting that pesky fact get in his way! It's possible he mentions some sources to back his claims in his reports...but these extremist, self-published documents are only available to paying subscribers. Second, not even Dr. Blaylock claims that soy excitotoxicity would be related to hormonal alterations. Finally, soy lecithin is not a protein at all, but rather a collection of lipids, some of which actually exhibit neuroprotective effects (see Aabdallah DM, Eid NI. "Possible neuroprotective effects of lecithin and alpha-tocopherol alone or in combination against ischemia/reperfusion insult in rat brain."  J Biochem Mol Toxicol. 2004;18(5):273-8. ). I would be very interested to see any good evidence supporting the original claims, so by all means, let me know if some exists. St3vo (talk) 20:35, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Food additives

message: From Science Daily "Scientists Solve Structure of NMDA Receptor Unit That Could Be Drug Target for Neurological Diseases"    MaxPont (talk) 15:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Finding that could be integrated in the article

message: From the history, I note that this section has been controversial. And for good reason. The references are old, primary (or news), and represent, with few exceptions, the view of a single researcher whose methods and views have been challenged by others. The sentence about division amongst neuroscientists is particularly interesting, since the news article cited describes a meeting of a "Social Issues Committee"...excellent evidence that this issue is less about medicine than social concerns. I'm removing the section as a bit too fringe for this article. Should others deem a brief statement necessary, it will require support from sources acceptable for medical claims, i.e. reviews in reliable journals. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 21:35, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Food additives 

message: The link with spreading depression, a chain reaction in the brain of potassium and glutamate release, is missing in the article. So is the role of extracellular potassium. I'll try and include it once I have the time.
2001:610:1908:C000:2C12:4A95:1844:BA52 (talk) 08:49, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link with spreading depression 

message: Header sez it all.
 
I arrive here in the course of researching a commercial supplement promotor named  Dr. Blaylock.  Excitotoxins make up a large part of his promotions.
 
Most, but emphatically not all, of what the guy teaches is true -- but you don't need to pay for it: just read the Internet carefully.
 
Some of what he says is dangerous: he confuses the dangerous metals lead and mercury with all chemicals of which they may be a part.  What he says about flu vaccines is incorrect and dangerous to the public.  I believe that it is only possible for a dishonest person to say the things that his spokesman says in promoting his for-pay supplement promotion pamphlet, portentously titled "The Blaylock Report."
 
There is no doubt that at a sufficiently high dose everything, including water, is poisonous or otherwise harmful.  What his spokesman says about aspertame(tm.) is unproven, if not aggressively dishonest and the result of hysterical promotion by ignorant cults.
 
 
DavidLJ (talk) 08:00, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Normal Variation Is Not a Medical Problem. 

message: hello, this article is possibly based on this paper (Shaikh
S, Dubey R, Joshi YM and Kadam VJ: Excitotoxicity and Cell Damage - A Review. In: Int J Pharm Sci Res 2013; 4(6); 2062-2066. ) or written by the same authors, cheers, --Ghilt (talk) 07:58, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very close to a certain paper 

message: The first sentence of this article states 'In excitotoxicity, nerve cells suffer damage or death when the levels of otherwise necessary and safe neurotransmitters such as glutamate, α-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid (AMPA), or N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) become pathologically high resulting in excessive stimulation of receptors'...this reads as though AMPA and NMDA are 'necessary and safe neurotransmitters'. The mentioning of AMPA and NMDA should either be removed, or the sentence re-phrased.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdx92129 (talk • contribs) 15:00, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  AMPA and NMDA are not endogenous neurotransmitters 

message: In an effort to make this article more properly encyclopedic, shouldn't it mention food additives (notably monosodium glutamate), if only briefly? The current version of this article doesn't mention either in the text of the article. That does a disservice to our readers and undermines our claim to treat subjects in an encyclopedic manner. 76.190.213.189 (talk) 19:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Food additives / monosodium glutamate