Talk:Microsoft XNA/Archive 1

message: This article reads like a marketing brochure, as though all statements on what XNA is or does were copied directly from Microsoft's promotional materials. I don't see how there can be any degree of neutrality this way.
Can't games targetting the XNA framework be developed in any .NET language? Jmacdonagh 18:14, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, XNA can be used iwth any .NET language, but it requires a bit of hacking, as the installer package integrates into C# Express. It has already been used with Chrome, F#, and Visual Basic.
The article needs an expansion, not just a copy edit. I wish I had enough knowledge to do it myself!!! --Soumyasch 10:18, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Trying to edit. --Soumyasch 10:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Please review. --Soumyasch 13:54, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misc 

message: Some users, I presume in an attempt to protect Microsoft or their own personal interest, continue to remove any criticism of the XNA framework.  They are making it worse for Microsoft and for themselves.  Now I have posted reviews in Amazon.com and reviews will follow.  Microsoft's license agreements clearly states that you cannot distributed networked applications or XBox applications, pretty much the only profitable segments in the videogame industry today. Future attempts to hide this heinous licensing agreement will be met with a formal dispute and vandalism reports. here are the licensing agreements:
Your statement about Xbox or networked applications being the only profitable releases is quite biased and absolutely wrong. I suggest you do some research  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.101.220.223 (talk) 05:35, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Software License Terms and Distribution Restrictions Must Be '''Transparent'''

message: The criticism section cites nothing and uses weasel words. Once one corrects for these things, there is really nothing of merit left to it. XNA is a system in production, to complain about XNA is to complain about a construction crew not having put walls on the house yet. Give it some freaking time.
Although already adopted by a large number of developers worldwide, XNA has not become widely used for its main purpose ; it was supposed to make game programming simpler.
It has made game programming simpler. Additionally, this statement is a non sequitur, as it does not elaborate on "XNA's main purpose" or how XNA has failed to acheived it. Perhaps if we had a citation, we would know what the original author intended by this sentence. As it stands, the first portion of the sentence (adoption) is unverifiable, and the second and third portions are vacuously empty. Deleting.
However, because it lacks features such as Skeletal animation, code which would seem complicated for a beginner is still required to get things moving.
No mention is made of the possible reason for this exlcusion, i.e., the early production status of XNA. If developers express a desire to have a skeletal animation system in XNA, then it's pretty likely Microsoft will include it. This sentence needs to be changed to indicate that lack of features are simply a function of lack of maturity, not some greater flaw in XNA's design itself.
  Another problem with XNA is that some people say it takes too much control away from the developer, which is why many large game developers choose to directly access the DirectX APIs through a language such as C++.
Weasel words (some people say...), and probably untrue. Established developers use C++ because of A) a mature toolchain for work in C++, B) mature assets, including 3D engines that are coded in C++, C) proliferation of C++ knowledge amongst game developlers in general, and D) fear, uncertainty, and doubt of new, untested technologies. Ten years ago, game developers railed against switching to C++ from C, ten years before that they railed against C in favor of to-the-metal assembly coding. There is no loss of control, it is a trading of control from that of the hardware to that of the expression of the game.
Given the cost savings one can have through the rapid application development principles brought to game development by XNA, if more developers had confidence in .NET and C#, XNA would see higher adaption. It's not because of a "lack of control." Control has no meaning, it's bottom dollar profit, and getting games done on time and under-budget increases profits.
Finally, if one were to develop a game in C++/DX that did everything a .NET/XNA game did under-the-hood, they would have similar runtime profiles. C++ is not magically several orders faster than JIT compiled .NET code. Equivalent operations take equivalent processing time, no matter in what language the program was originally written. The problem comes from a misinterpretation of what constitutes an equivalent operation. Garbage Collection and Managed Types are features, features that sometimes get hacked into systems when attempting to compensate for their lack of inclusion in C++. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone that can code a more performant implementation of GC than what is in .NET.capnmidnight 21:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism Section very POV 

message: XNA Game Studio Express is the IDE for homebrew developers that will be available free of charge during the 2006 Christmas period
This has nothing to do with the linked article: 
Nothing is said about a release date in the cited press release (though I believe this information to be accurate).
Timbatron 04:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect citation 

message: On a technical note, the lack of 3d sound support in XNA v1.0 and the uselessness of "XACT" make the whole thing a joke. Once you get past the hype (like this article) and try to use this XNA for a real game you start to see what a hack job it is. 60.241.89.195 10:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 3D sound will be added in the April 2007 release.
XACT (the audio tool for use in the development of Xbox 360 games) works just fine.  Although it requires a small amount of rethinking for seasoned developers, it creates a good way of managing audio within a game.  I have used XNA for a while now and it works very well for my purposes.  XACT, while required for the Xbox 360 and Zune platforms, is not a requirement.  Any other .NET supporting framework may be used in an XNA game for the Windows platform.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.243.109 (talk) 05:29, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No 3D Sound 

message: I removed the  tag from this article, which was placed by User:204.50.199.4 without comment on 2/12.  Looking at the number of different contributors to this article and the content, I do not believe this reads like an advertisement (though it may need cleanup).  If you disagree, please comment here before reverting my edit.  --J Morgan(talk) 14:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps the article is not quite an advert, but...it does pretty much exclusively cite Microsoft sources, and some of the language appears to be copied from advertisements. I'm referring specifically to the second sentence of the article, 'XNA does this by freeing game designers from writing "repetitive boilerplate code,"', citing a Microsoft press release. While not exactly advertising, things like these, in my mind, draw the article's neutrality into question. It's rather one-sided, to be frank - it would be good to have a larger variety of sources. I'm not entirely certain how to achieve neutrality, though - with as controversial a company as Microsoft, there will be an abundance of trolling and very little information paydirt. 84.131.135.250 19:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advert 

message: Is there any hint that this sort of thing is being worked on for the .NET Mobile Profile?   Mathiastck 05:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I came here expecting to learn something about how XNA is suppposed to have something to do with Windows Phone 7 Series development (and Zune?), but I am still left in the dark.  Jason404 (talk) 03:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mobile 

message: Despite what the XNA FAQ says, it is very possible to build an XNA game using languages other than C#, and IDEs other than Visual Studio, to make XNA games. I'm currently working on a game in the Boo language, and using SharpDevelop. It has taken a bit of work but it absolutely will build and run. I suspect any .NET based language and any IDE or compiler will work.
:I agree the sentance under XNA Framework that says "Currently, games that run on the framework must be written in C# using the XNA Game Studio Express IDE." should probably be removed. It's certainly not true (as you say) and it's not really implied by the linked FAQ, either. The FAQ mentions C# with regards to the framework, and Game Studio Express is built around C# but there's nothing there that says you need to use Game Studio Express to write games against the framework. If no one has objections, I'll update the text to reflect this. DeanHarding 05:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Technically, as long as the libraries are available for linking, any .NET compliant compiler and IDE will work by C# and Game Studio is the only officially supported way. --soum talk 07:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But where does it say C# + Game Studio are the only offically supported way? Of course they encourage you to use them, but the citation after that sentence certainly doesn't imply that C# + Game Studio is the only supported to write games. Besides, the way that sentence is worded, it says that C# + Game Studio are the only way, not the only supported way. I'm going to rewrite the sentence a little but I think I'll need some actual citation that says C# + Game Studio is the only officially supported way to write games using XNA. DeanHarding 23:25, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  C# and Visual Studio only? Not so much 

message: XNA is also used for much of the software written for Microsofts new Surface computer coming out soon  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.124.36.198 (talk) 02:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Microsoft Surface Computer 

message: Should there be a mention of the fact that XNA's EULA says that unless you pay a licensing fee, Microsoft owns anything you create with XNA and you have to distribute the source with the game? This is not me having a moan, I don't think that Microsoft are being that unreasonable - it costs money for any company to buy dev tools for a console. I just think this fact should be in the article somewhere. I'm not sure whether or not this is the same as the Creator's Club mentioned, which doesn't say anything about distribution of source. 123.243.99.2 07:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should this article mention??? 

message: :Image:Xnalogo.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 08:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Xnalogo.PNG

message: The article needs to be updated now. --soum talk 06:47, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  XNA GS 3.0 and XNA Live Community Games 

message: As per the list of WPF apps, would it be possible to have a sample list of released games that use this toolkit? Naelphin (talk) 13:29, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of released games using this toolkit 

message: "...for rapid development of specific genres of games, such as platform, real-time strategy, and first-person shooters."
In the XNA content catalog I see an RPG, a 2D multiplayer space shooter, a tunnel shooter, a racing game and a puzzle game. No real-time strategy, platform or first-person shooters whatsoever. And that blows. I've been looking for good platform game boilerplate. --Kawachan (talk) 18:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Starter kits 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "xnafaq" :
** Microsoft XNA Frequently Asked Questions
** Microsoft XNA Frequently Asked Questions
DumZiBoT (talk) 09:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: It seems that XNA is using the GNU method of naming.
* GNU = GNU's Not Unix
* XNA = XNA's Not Acronymed
Does anyone notice these similarities?
: Bwoah, they do it all the time -- EINE Is Not Emacs, ZWEI Was Eine Initially, PHP Hypertext Preprocessor... it's just that until now, "they" did not include Microsoft. Guess they just wanted to "be like the cool kids". --Kawachan (talk) 13:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They are called recursive acronyms.  TWAIN- "Technology Without An Interesting Name", is another good one (although not recursive). Jason404 (talk) 03:37, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  XNA With GNU?! 

message: I think it is desirable to list all the games made using this computer language.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.37.243 (talk) 00:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of games 

message: Wasn't the real acronym - a recursive acronym: XNA's not acronym?
Or did they change it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.127.204.98 (talk) 15:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: XNA’s Not Acronymed. Says so right there. --Kawachan (talk) 13:09, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  XNA acronym 

message: I know that the Express version is free, but what about 3.0? Could someone add in the price for the other versions? 65.2.40.49 (talk) 16:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There all free. --72.39.60.67 (talk) 12:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prices 

message: As of September 2009, this paragraph is the most clueless, random thing I have read on Wikipedia. It doesn't say what is the Content Pipeline. No, it's not a set of tools. I suggest someone knowing what he's writing about redo that whole section, which is by far the worst of this article. Meanwhile I'm removing the section as what it says is, for anyone one knowing the XNA framework and what is the content pipeline, utter randomness. Here's a copy of what is was: 
"XNA Framework Content Pipeline
The XNA Framework Content Pipeline is a set of tools that allows Visual Studio and XNA Studio "as the key design point around organizing and consuming 3D content". [6][13] This means that XNA Game Studio can still be used to develop commercial games and other programs for the Windows platform, although Microsoft's networking support code for Xbox/Windows Live cannot be used. Self-developed network code can still be used inside your XNA project.
Games created using XNA Game studio may now be distributed via Xbox Live Community Games. The software may also be used to create commercial games which target Windows."
While reading this, if you didn't laugh out loud, I suspect you don't know more about the Content Pipeline more than the original author of this section. I give the benefice of the doubt and will guess that it was written at a time where Microsoft marketing department itself wasn't even sure what was the Content Pipeline. --WhereIsMarty (talk) 19:02, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  XNA Framework Content Pipeline 

message: Doesn't this hint at WINE actually being an emulator?--129.13.72.197 (talk) 21:56, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No; recursive acronyms have always been a running joke in the programming community (eg, LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder, PHP: Hypertext Processor, etc) 121.223.243.95 (talk) 15:20, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  XNA's Not Acronymed - WINE Is Not An Emulator 

message: wikipedia hasn't caught up with new marketplace and developer site for XNA games (xbox+windows mobile) at MSDN?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.103.21.158 (talk) 23:24, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It just came out so it's currently in progress. Washington Irving Esquire (talk) 23:55, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Windows mobile and new site instead of creators.xna.org 

message: XNA = Xbox Networking Access  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.99.64.251 (talk) 01:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  XNA Means....