Talk:Princess Caroline of Monaco

message: I think, in case of the dinasty, Brunswick-Lüneburg is correct. Google hits: "Brunswick-Lunenburg": 290 (including many "... Brunswick, Lunenburg, ...") // "Brunswick-Lüneburg": 796
It depends if you want it in English, in German, or in a bastard mix of both. Apparently at Wikipedia we're going with the bastard version. -- Someone else 23:01, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: dynasty

message: As Heiress Apparent of Monaco, which she now is, does the Princess of Hanover automatically take the style of Hereditary Princess of Monaco as well as become Marquise des Baux?
:It's hard to find out at the moment. The official Monaco website http://www.monaco.gouv.mc/ is currently nearly nonfunctional (slow) for obvious reasons. -- Curps 10:25, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Research as to previous holders of the Hereditary Prince/Princess title of Monaco indicates that the titular distinction is automatic though it appears to have eventual documentation passed to make it official. Would it be prudent to put "de facto" before the Hereditary Princess designation until we know if the distinction is "de jure"? Mowens35 21:24, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heiress Apparent 

message: If Wiki's entry on Apparent versus Presumptive is correct, the Princess of Hanover is Heiress Apparent, not Presumptive, to the throne of Monaco. Her brother, Albert II, could certainly father an heir to the throne if he had the inclination.
:Are you sure?  I believe it's the opposite: an heir presumptive can be replaced by the birth of a new heir, an heir apparent cannot be displaced by any birth. -- Curps 11:28, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If her brother dies without issue she doesn't decome heiress apparent, she becomes Soveriegn.  Andrea would become heir apparent. (Alphaboi867 16:58, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heiress Apparent/Presumptive 

message: How can this be? The living have no heirs.
The second official definition of "heir" is "A person who succeeds or is in line to succeed to a hereditary rank, title, or office." Note that bit "is in line to succeed" ... Mowens35 15:49, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "distant heir to the British throne"?=

message: How can she have a different "official name" elsewhere? In fact, her official name is "Caroline Prinzessin von Hannover" which translates from German as "Caroline, Princess of Hanover".
I agree that her name should be as she herself uses it, officially and under most circumstances. I think when utilizing titles, whether active or defunct, Wiki contributors should rely on standard publications re nobiliary enrollment, such as Burke's Peerage, Debrett's, and the Almanach de Gotha. Though many titles in the Almanach, for instance, are defunct and no longer legally recognized by various countries of origin, the titles are commonly used and often the only ones by which the titleholders are known. If we go the opposite direction, ie restricting ourselves only to active and legally recognized titles, then we will be forced to refer to entry subjects such as Caroline of Hanover as Caroline Wettin or Mrs Ernst August Wettin, which would serve no one seeking information about her/them any good. Mowens35 13:30, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Buhuu. Hanovers have nothing to do with surname Wettin. They are Welf. 62.78.106.50 23:28, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Officially elsewhere"

message: not strictly true. Her ancestor Louise Hippolyte reigned briefly in 1731
thanks for pointing this out; I have made the change in the text. Mowens35 13:25, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  First reigning Princess of Monaco ? 

message: This is outdated information.  Albert has publicly admitted to fathering two children out of wedlock - a daughter in California and a son in Africa - both of whom receive child support payments from him but neither of whom is eligible to ascend the Monegasque throne.
:refer to the claims of Californian woman Tamara Rotolo that her daughter Jazmine Grace born 1992 was fathered by Albert - a claim not denied by him but he has consistently refused to take a paternity test.
:Indeed....and bear in mind the fact that Rainier's mother was denied by the Grimaldi's as beings Louis' daughter until they had a successions crisis and recognised her in 1919
:Regardless of this fact he has already aknowledged the fact that he fathered an illigitimate child, however in order to ascend to the throne you must be a legitimate heir. And not only does he not refuse to take a paternaty suit, Jazmin's mother took the case to court and the court said there were not grounds to make him to take the test. Suggesting at the fact that Jazmin's mother is full of crap and Albert is not the father. (Mac Domhnaill 01:54, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "no known children" ? 

message: By what title is Chantal Hoculi, first wife of Ernt August of Hanover now known ? - Chantal, Princess of Hanover ?
She can accurately be referred to as either, though she is typically and usually known as Princess Chantal of Hanover. As a divorced wife, she would be referred to, strictly correctly, as HRH Chantal, Princess of Hanover. This is the form a divorcée usually takes, ie Diana, Princess of Wales. Mowens35 20:29, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have made the change, to avoid the implication, and will check with the Embassy of Monaco as well as the editors of the Almanach de Gotha to ascertain the correct style. My gut says she is, FORMALLY, "Her Royal and Serene Highness, The Princess of Hanover, Hereditary Princess of Monaco," but I will make sure of the correct terminology. Mowens35 22:20, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please quit changing the introductory sentence of the article. Her official name and titular styling, according to the Government of Monaco, is HRH The Princess of Hanover. This is also what she herself prefers, as it is correct re etiquette, et cetera. Mowens35 10:11, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: The German titles of the Princess's husband still exist. The Weimar constitution did not abolish the titles but it did abolish the privileges associated with them and it decreed that said titles would henceforth be a part of the family names of the involved. Nobility in Germany is now strictly a private matter to those it concerns. Many of them stay diplomatically recognised by other powers (like Monaco). Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:40, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Titles & Styles 

message: I wish people would stop referring to the Grimaldis as "Royal" - they are not. With the exception of Princesse Caroline, HRH by marriage, the are a princely house whose members bear the style "Serene Highness".
Offical correspondence always refers to them  as Famille Princier - not Famille Royale.
::Point taken, though I wish you would sign your postings with four tildes so we know who you are. It also would be best to post your comment on a page that actually refers to the Monaco princely family as royal; I just read the entry over three times and the word royal is not used even once. At least not to describe the Grimaldis. Mowens35 22:03, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that means YOU think they are not royal but THEY think they are 194.183.196.141 08:09, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that's what you say; and I think nobility would quite much agree except for exchange of one word. The word we look for is souvereign, or even more precise, "souverein or standesherrlich". And all would agree that it matters really much whether you are from a souvereign house or not, compared to (that's of course only a comparison and is not meant to interfere with human equality and the like) whether you are royalty; royalty however, i. e. the precise term of royalty, is something they are not. And in style and the like, some formal preference is given to royals even as opposed to souvereigns. We may wonder why the Grand Duke of Luxemburg prides himself in being a Royal (Dutch) Highness rather than a Grandducal Highness*, the then-Duke of Saxe Coburg and Gotha a Royal (British) Highness (until stripped of the title) rather than a Highness of his own governed duchy, or even the Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein a Royal (Bavarian) Highness rather than a Serene (Liechtensteinian) Highness even though the Wittelsbachs don't rule in Bavaria but the Liechtensteins do rule in Liechtenstein; but they apparently do. * It may be objected that the title for a Grand Duke is "Royal Highness"; true, but the very reason for adopting the name of King which they didn't have was that a lot of Grand Dukes had these family connections.--91.34.226.198 (talk) 11:16, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Royal 

message: "(Caroline Louise Marguerite Wettin, formerly Grimaldi)"
AFAIK her official name is "Caroline Prinzessin von Hannover" (in English "Caroline Princess of Hanover"). The Hanover family does not use the Wettin name, it is only dynastical but has no official status in Germany as surname.
:Could it be possible that the busybody Mowens is blocked from making any edits to this page?  It seems that the texts that person concocts, are totally untruthful, for example the inventon of name Wettin for that family... 62.78.120.212 23:46, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wettin 

message: The article says: She was educated at the Sciences Po in Paris, and Princeton University in the USA.
Her official bio on the Monaco site says nothing about Princeton. She was educated at the Sorbonne in Paris, earning a diploma in Philosophy and minors in Psychology and Biology.
:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was no consensus. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 18:06, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Education

message: *Support Various aspects of the name for Caroline's article have been much-discussed above, but the bottom line is that this move is called for under WP Naming Conventions. Lethiere 23:31, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I SUPPORT this move because:
# She is best-known as "Princess Caroline of Monaco" (and second-best as "Caroline, Princess of Monaco", but that form should probably be reserved for living consorts of princes who have actually reigned). Re-naming the article accordingly would bring it into compliance with the most applicable WP naming convention.
# WP titles of other living married females of reigning families vary erratically, but moving this article would increase consistency by bringing it into conformity with the styles for Princess Benedikte of Denmark, Princess Nora of Liechtenstein, Princess Margriet of the Netherlands, Princess Astrid of Norway, Infanta Elena of Spain and, importantly, with Princess Thyra of Denmark, ancestress of Caroline's husband.
# No overwhelming reason has been given for why this world-famous heiress presumptive to one of Europe's ten remaining monarchies should be known by the courtesy title of a pretender to the crown of a country that has not existed for 130 years (and lest it be argued that "mere fame" should be irrelevant, remember that's how most people get into encyclopedias -- royalty glide in on ancestral fame). This is not to invalidate her claim (by tradition) to the Hanoverian title or to its historical importance: that should be mentioned early on in the article text. Lethiere 23:31, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Caroline's official title in Monaco, where all her legal/courtesy titles and styles are based, is HRH The Princess of Hanover, simply put. The examples with Elena, Astrid, etc are mostly of women who married commoners or very obscure nobles. Charles 03:16, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  How is it relevant to WP Naming Conventions whether or not a princess's husband is also a "commoner" or "very obscure noble"? Ernst August V, Prince of Hanover, except insofar as he is known as the consort of Princess Caroline of Monaco, is an "obscure" pretender. Certainly he is less famous in his own right than Iñaki Urdangarin, Spain's best known handball player and a three-time Olympic Games competitor, yet the WP page of his wife is listed at Infanta Cristina of Spain. WP Naming Convention does not use the official titles given in monarchies to members of their dynasties, but uses the title best known in English, except in cases where some other naming principle has been agreed upon (such as "Firstname" of "Realm" for monarchs). Therefore, on what basis do you contend that Caroline's style should be an exception to the application of the WP Naming Convention which places the pages of Princess Benedikte of Denmark, Princess Nora of Liechtenstein, Princess Margriet of the Netherlands, Princess Astrid of Norway and Infanta Elena of Spain under their maiden titles rather than under the names or titles of their husbands? I have asked this question before -- about how "the Princess of Hanover" complies with WP Naming Convention -- and I would really appreciate a direct answer this time. Please. Lethiere 07:17, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Evidence speaks for itself. The Princess Grace Foundation page at the portal for the Princely House, UNESCO entry on The Princess of Hanover. Plus the official site refers to la Princesse de Hanovre. Charles 14:31, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: The current policy is as per this MoS reference:
:If the topic itself concerns a specific country, editors may choose to use the date format used in that country. This is useful even if the dates are linked, because new users and users without a Wikipedia account do not have any date preferences set, and so they see whatever format was typed. For topics concerning the UK, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, most member states of the Commonwealth of Nations, and most international organizations such as the United Nations, the formatting is usually 17 February 1958 (no comma and no "th"). In the United States and Canada, it is February 17, 1958. Elsewhere, either format is acceptable. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English for more guidance.
Perhaps Nunh-huh is referring to this section on disputes over styles:
:In June 2005, the Arbitration Committee ruled that, when either of two styles is acceptable, it is inappropriate for a Wikipedia editor to change from one style to another unless there is some substantial reason for the change. For example, with respect to British spelling as opposed to American spelling, it would only be acceptable to change from American spelling to British spelling if the article concerned a British topic. Revert warring over optional styles is unacceptable; if the article uses colour rather than color, it would be wrong to switch simply to change styles, although editors should ensure that articles are internally consistent. If in doubt, defer to the style used by the first major contributor. See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jguk
The substantial reason for the change in date formats in this article is that Monaco uses the "littleendian" international date format of Day Month Year. In addition, the date formats were inconsistent and I rationalised them, as per my edit summary. --Jumbo 00:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for thoroughly explaining this. Charles 01:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using International dates 

message: When/if Caroline becomes Princess of Monaco, after she dies, will her son Andrea, when/if he succeeds as Prince of Monaco, use HRH or HSH? Morhange 16:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is unknown. She will be HRH and there really is no reason for her not to use it. Charles 17:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding HRH 

message: Is she not technically Princess Ernst August  as she was not(and could not have been) born a princess of "Hanover " ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.45.251 (talk • contribs) 
:As the wife of the Head of the House of Hanover who is styled the Prince of Hanover, Caroline is the Princess of Hanover. Charles 19:54, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, she is styled SAR la Princesse de Hanovre. Charles 20:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Caroline is an HRH through her marriage to Ernst-August. Her sons are not and will therefore use (if their mother get the throne) HSH. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:53, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

text: I didn't say they had styles or titles. They haven't. But I'm pretty sure that they will get them once their mother becomes a reigning Princess. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 21:46, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Also she is not styled Princess Ernst-August. The style Princess (husbands given name) is a British custom that does not necessarily apply to her. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 21:53, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style 

message: Recent copyedits have improved the grammar and flow of the article but, in a few cases, somewhat diminished accuracy. I'm making minimal edits to restore accuracy as follows:
# re-insert "valid" in "However, this is no longer an option owing to the constitutional changes of 2002." Caroline's grandmother, Charlotte, was not validly adopted because the 1918 law authorizing her natural father, Louis II, Prince of Monaco, to do so required that he have attained the age of 50, which he had not, in fact, done when the adoption took place in 1919. This has been ignored for 3 generations, but it is not impossible that a legal or political challenge could be raised by descendants of the 2 Monegasque princesses displaced by Charlotte's "adoption", inasmuch as they had protested against being excluded at the time. The article should take note of the difference between de facto and de jure official actions when they have legal or political implications.
# re-insert "a successor" in "Albert's lack of legitimate children prompted Prince Rainier to change the constitution so as to ensure the places of Caroline and her descendants in the line of succession." Monaco's constitution didn't need to be changed to allow Caroline to succeed Albert (in case he died without dynastic descendants), but to allow anyone to succeed Albert on the throne. Monaco's 1918 treaty with France stipulated that, in the event of vacancy of the throne, Monaco would become a protectorate of France, losing its independence. The fact that Caroline benefits from the change in law is secondary.
# re-insert "dynastic" in "So long as Prince Albert remains without legitimate issue, Princess Caroline remains first in line to succeed him on the throne." It was and is perfectly possible for Albert to have legal, legitimate descendants who, upon his death or abdication, would have no right of succession to the throne: 1. Any children he adopts, and their descendants 2. Any descendant of a legitimate child of Albert's who is born of a marriage that lacked the reigning Prince's prior consent. Thus, such descendants would be non-dynastic, whereas only dynastic descendants may inherit the throne. Lethiere 06:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Technical corrections

message: If Caroline becomes Princess of Monaco, would her children receive the Grimaldi surname and the style/title HSH Princess X of Monaco?  For example would Andrea become HSH Prince Andrea Casiraghi Grimaldi of Monaco, of course he, as eldest son, would also be The Hereditary Prince of Monaco and Marquis of Baux. Prsgoddess187 22:22, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caroline's Children 

message: As Hereditary Princess of Monaco, is Caroline also titled (even if not styled) as marquise des Baux? I am under the impression that this title belongs to the heir, but am unsure if it extends to heirs presumptive. Charles 05:29, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marquise des Baux 

message: Nobility was abolished in Germany in 1919. Hannover is not a Kingdom. You cannot be Princess of Hannover in the real life. In the world of Disney you can be Princess, yes, but not in Germany because is a republic and the monarchie and nobility was abolished in 1919. --Hinzel 04:49, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: She's still a princess regardless of whether she's in the world of Disney or not, since she's also a Princess of Monaco... 70.29.213.241 (talk) 11:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Hinzel, why don't you tell that to the Prince of Monaco, who doesn't mind when his sister and brother-in-law are introduced as TRH The Prince and Princess of Hanover? In other words, as long as official publications refer to her as Princess of Hanover, everything else is irrelevant. Besides, the title of Prince of Hanover doesn't have anything to do with the city called Hanover, just like the title of Duke of Norfolk has nothing to do with Norfolk. It's just the title she uses and the title European courts use to refer to her. Surthttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Caroline,_Princess_of_Hanover&action=edit§ion=29sicna (talk) 18:01, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's very well German custom to call him RH and Duke. And it is not law not to do so, as we live in a free country and can very well call our Dukes Duke and Princes Prince. The German law rules out the way their name is recorded by the registry office. Ask Mr. McAllister (who is a German, to avoid the confusion) whether he a) has heard of the practice of calling the Prince of Hanover Prince of Hanover, b) has any objections to it on grounds of the national interest of Lower Saxony. - Dear @Surtsicna: Well here comes the problem: The Prince of Hanover is supposed to have to do with Hanover. The Duke of Norfolk may not, and I've read Mr. G. K. Chesterton heavily mocking the practice; not that I would; but at least the major titles of German major nobility are supposed to say something about what the title-holders are about. As does "Duke of Cornwall".--91.34.226.198 (talk) 20:21, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  In 1919 Germany abolished the privileges of nobility (an thereby the nobility itself as a class) but not their titles. They were to become part of the surname. Nobility in Germany is a complete private matter not mentioned in the present constitution. The provisions of 1919 however are still valid.Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:58, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Hannover is not a kingdom

message: Last phrase of the article: "Historically, styles associated with kingdoms, such as Ernst August's, have been deemed of higher rank and status than those associated with principalities."   
Stupid question: How can a kingdom that has been inexistent for almost a century have "higher rank and status" than an existent and very real principality?    I know that nobility titles are legal in Germany, but there is no actual kingdom in Germany.   Those German "nobility" titles are actually only some of "courtesy" while those in Monaco are very real (at least, real in Monaco). Fredyrod (talk) 20:40, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a matter of widely accepted tradition. All monarchies continue to recognize some form of titles and styles borne by royalty of abolished monarchies. All of them continue to treat those who held monarchical rank at the time of deposition as if they still held that rank -- although with precedence following still reigning royalty. Thus, Caroline could use, and the rulers of Monaco could recognize her use, of styles appertaining to her princely rank, i.e. "Princess of Monaco" and Serene Highness. But instead the Monegasque court refers to her by the feminine version of her husband's title of pretence, "the Princess of Hanover", and the associated, higher style of Royal Highness. By contrast, Denmark recognizes and uses the title of the husband, Richard, Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg, of the reigning Queen's sister, Princess Benedikte of Denmark, because as the daughter of a king, her rank and style (Royal Highness) is higher than his (Serene Highness). Benedikte's younger sister, married to the former sovereign of Greece, is still accorded the title of "Queen" and style of Majesty, although her husband is now referred to at the Copenhagen (and other royal courts) as "King Constantine II" instead of as "The King of the Hellenes", which was his title when he still sat on the throne. The tradition of continuing to accord deposed royalty the same titles and rank as when they reigned is a very ancient tradition that goes back at least to the Crusades, when many Christians returned to Europe from the Near East having lost the kingdoms and principalities they had established there by conquest. That tradition was preserved and recorded in the pages of the Diplomats' Bible, the Almanach de Gotha when Napoleon deposed many old dynasties and erected his own in their place. Since the Almanach ceased publication in 1944, the tradition has been maintained by Europe's dynastic courts. FactStraight (talk) 06:28, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: German nobility title has "higher rank and status"?

message: If she divorces Ernst as speculated, will she lose the HRH title and will she still be known as princess of hanover?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.222.184 (talk) 13:16, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes if she divorce. --Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 22:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: 2nd Divorce?

message: As she is HRH by marrige and HSH by birth, isn't she styled "Her Royal and Serene Highness" rather than "Her Royal Highness"?--Scn82 (talk) 11:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: no one? --Scn82 (talk) 21:48, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, Royal Highness always outranks Serene Highness and therefore it is the only one used. Surtsicna (talk) 07:33, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Style and Title

message: Anyone know exactly what the grounds for annulment of her first marriage were?  And why they didn't occur to anyone before the event? Paul Magnussen (talk) 00:27, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Grounds for annulment?

message: For anyone who is interested, her estranged husband is NOT *the* heir male of George III of the United Kingdom; only of George III of Hanover, who happened to be the same person.
One of the reasons the British monarchy continued to survive when almost every other monarch was swept from the face of Europe in the early to mid-20th century, is that it has always been a purely statutory institution.  British constitutional law, like English and Scottish constitutional law before it, has never agnatic succession rules.
Scotland, however, historically recognised matrilineal succession.  Prior to the Stewart/Stuart succession, the monarch was always male but his eligiblity for the throne was determined by his mother's royal position, not by his paternal connexions.  Thus, a king was succeeded first by his brothers (the other sons of his mother, as ranking princess royal), then his nephews (his sisters sons), then his cousins (his mother's sisters grandsons), then finally by his own sons or grandsons - assuming he married the princess royal who was in the right position in the ranking for that to happen.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.62.103 (talk) 05:26, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: (re-factoring this section to appear in proper chronological order) "heir male of George III" is not synonymous with "heir of George III": Elizabeth II is the rightful heir of George III in the succession to the British throne. "Heir male" is a genealogical term which specifically means "senior male by masculine primogeniture in the legitimate descent of George III". That's who Caroline's current husband is. FactStraight (talk) 09:30, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Estranged Husband

message: in pretenses from 1999 to now wouldn't she have been Know in pretenses as the Queen Of Hannover Because she marry her husband who is in pretenses King of Hannover?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by KingOscarXIX (talk • contribs) 16:54, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: No, because the in pretense Duke of Brunswick and Luneburg ~(which her husband is also) is in pretense bound to his grandfathers recognition of Prussian sovereignty over Hanover, hence the grandfather stopping being in pretense King of Hanover. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:30, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Queen of Hannover 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Because there are none, merely a pretender and she isn’t (even if she is a backer), but her husband. 
* It is impossible to be a prince without a state (a government /parliament) that acknowledge the title, there isen't here
* Caroline is mainly not know as the wife of a pretender? 
That her husband is a pretender could be noted, but is not the front topic. She can't be named/titled "Princess of Hanover"/"the pretender" in the article, because it is not an official status of Germany and a thing Wikipedia should deal with that way. The article should be rewritten, it is not correct.
And his relatives renounced the title becoming dukes of Duchy of Brunswick, and denounced by the British royal family by the WWI. She is Caroline  Welf and could possibly be Princess of Monaco if Albert II, Prince of Monaco recognize her as such. 
I made a longer point of this topic at the talk of Otto Habsburg, that should be acknowledged by Wikipedia as a German CDU politician, not as a pretender, read it. 
This is a politically too sensitive topic to be ignored. Wikipedia should not take political stands in favor of any, just be an observer. 
Wikipedia needs a much stronger policy here!
--Zzalpha (talk) 15:43, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: She is not "Caroline Welf". She does not call herself that and nobody in the world calls her that. She self-identifies as Princess of Hanover; the Government of Monaco calls her Princess of Hanover and Royal Highness (an appellation she derives solely from her marriage to Ernst August); and she is widely known in reliable sources as Princess of Hanover. I will agree that this is a "politically too sensitive topic" when the Federal Government of Germany issues a letter of protest to the Government of Monaco regarding Caroline's usage of the title. Until then, let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. Germany obviously does not care. Surtsicna (talk) 17:03, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caroline, can't possibly be a Princess of Hanover 

message: "Caroline was romantically linked to many famous men, including Mark Shand, the younger brother of Camilla, Queen Consort of the United Kingdom; Guillermo Vilas; Sebastian Taylor, who had previously dated Princess Elizabeth of Yugoslavia; Jonathan Guinness, the son of Jonathan Guinness, 3rd Baron Moyne"
That part is wrong and the link is talking about Caroline Kennedy, JFK's daughter not Princess Caroline. It should be deleted. Unfriendnow (talk) 20:53, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal and media life is wrong