Talk:Mitsuo Fuchida

message: The reasons I placed caveats around Fuchida's statement that he attended the surrender ceremony on board U.S.S. Missouri are detailed below.  Frankly, this is such a whopper I can't understand why someone else hasn't trashed it years ago. Please go here:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/japansur/js-8.htm
The photos of the ceremony make two things abundantly clear:
1) This was a standing-room only party, and all the guests were either American crewman of the Missouri (on the turrets and in the superstructure), or else very important representatives from the Allied nations (on the quarterdeck). I see *no* Japanese uniforms in *any* of those photos--just white American sailor suits and guys wearing *our* officers' hats. All the spots in the rafters are taken by American sailors.
2) Pretty clearly, the *only* Japanese "invited" to this party were the eleven individuals who were required to be there. And from the faces of the Japanese delegation, they all look like they've just eaten toads. Ask yourself the following questions: why would a mid-level staff officer like Fuchida be present at these ceremonies, in *any* capacity whatsoever?  Why?  Why him, when the IJN has literally hundreds of Japanese *admirals* to choose from instead? And from the American perspective, why would Admiral Halsey (whose flagship this is) have even the *slightest* interest in giving up precious deck real-estate for some no-name guy like Fuchida? It doesn't make any sense. It simply doesn't pass the sniff test.
This is further supported by the description of the ceremony, which was (not surprisingly) very well documented. The Japanese party came on board for half an hour. There is no mention whatsoever of any group of supernumerary Japanese who were allowed to come aboard beforehand and were then escorted onto the ship's superstructure to witness the show. If there were, don't you think they would have been photographed as well? The ship was absolutely crawling with photographers--Fuchida couldn't have helped being photographed if he were there. No, it's quite clear that the Japanese came on as a single group, and from a single ship. They did their thing, and then were immediately escorted off the ship. Fuchida was never there. It's complete nonsense.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jparshall (talk • contribs) 22:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See entry at end of "Disputed" section. Parshall is mistaken in many ways and did very poor research to reach his conclusions. Someone fact-checked his "whopper speech" and showed it to be highly unprofessional and simply wrong http://heynotsofast.wordpress.com/. As far as the event being "very well documented," Parshall is quite wrong on this as well. See the article. This is simply an error on Parshall's part. All said, no need to restore the entry as it wasn't a huge event in Fuchida's life.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theleopard (talk • contribs) 13:53, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added a link in the wordpress site to the Naval War College Review article.TMartinBennett (talk) 20:45, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

text: What a rotten jab at Parshall. His research is that of a historian, a reliable source per Wikipedia. Parshall describes his research at the article, "Reflecting on Fuchida, or a 'Tale of Three Whoppers'", published in the Naval War College Review. Find me someone who cuts Parshall down in an equally respected publication and you'll have a point. Without backing from a reliable source, your assertions are useless for improving the article. Binksternet (talk) 17:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I submitted my full article to the Naval War College Review who submitted it to several "highly credentialed experts" and approved it for publication with minor edits. You can read it here: Parshall's "Whoppers" Examined. There no doubt that Fuchida was, in fact, very much present on the USS Missouri that day, but it isn't neccessary to include it in this brief overview article. Hopefully this further research will bring light to the subject.TMartinBennett (talk) 20:45, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I was quite correct in supposing that Mr. Bennett's publication in the NWCR would be a springboard for more attempts to expurgate the record on Fuchida's misstatements here on Wikipedia.  My formal reply to his NWCR article will be published in the next issue.  In the meantime, I have published another set of Fuchida misstatements on my web site, here: "Another Trip to the Drive-Thru: Three More Wartime Whoppers Courtesy of Mitsuo Fuchida.  They come complete with annotated Japanese primary sources.Jparshall (talk) 15:46, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

text: Among other things, the issue of who would be allowed from the Japanese side to attend the surrender was discussed in "Requirements of the Supreme Commander presented to the Japanese Representatives at Manila, P.I. dated 19 August 45." The Japanese were permitted to bring a total of eleven personnel (the two signers from the Foreign Ministry and the IGHQ and three each from the Foreign Ministry, the Army, and the Navy). The names of the eleven are well known. There were no others. We have thousands of still and motion picture images taken by Army Signal Corps photographers, Navy photographers, and civilian correspondents. These images document every phase of the movements of the Japanese representatives from their boarding the USS Landsdowne at Yokohama to their arrival at the USS Missouri. We have the oral history statements of such individuals as Admiral Stuart Murray, who at the time was the captain of the Missouri and who was responsible for coordinating many aspects of the ceremony. We have the deck log of the USS Landsdowne. Nowhere in any of this is there any mention or image of Fuchida. I would be very interested in seeing what proof there might be that he was present at the surrender.
Oldbubblehead (talk) 00:39, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Signing of the [[Japanese Instrument of Surrender]] 

message: Hello wikipedians,
I read in a day-by-day Advent pamphlet today that at the end of the war, Fuchida realized he was the last surviving officer of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Are there any other sources that corroborate this? It would be worth including in the article, if it were true. GrimmC (talk) 17:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We need to clarify the statement.  Does it mean, "last surviving officer who participated in the attack", ie, "who flew in the attack", or "last surviving officer who participated in any aspect of the attack, including planning"?  Genda did not fly on the mission.  Best regardsTheBaron0530 (talk) 16:44, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last surviving officer of Pearl Harbor 

message: This page has been protected but note this protection is not an endorsement of the current version. Please discuss any changes on this page; you may use the :Template:editprotected template to ask an administrator to make an edit if it is supported by consensus. You may also request that this page be unprotected once consensus has been reached. MilborneOne (talk) 20:48, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page protected 

message: As written the article states, "Fuchida remained over the target in order to assess damage and to observe the second wave attack. He returned to his carrier after the second wave successfully completed its mission. With great pride, he announced that the U.S. battleship fleet had been destroyed; USS Arizona, Oklahoma, West Virginia, California and Nevada were sunk." This is incorrect. Fuchida initially reported two battleships sunk and four battleships with severe damage. Nagumo's preliminary action report by radio estimated four battleships sunk, two battleships with heavy damage, and two battleships with small damage. The Pearl Harbor battle damage assessment which Fuchida presented to the Emperor was as follows (battleships only): Minor damage: Pennsylvania; Moderate damage: Nevada, California; Serious damage: Arizona, Maryland; Sunk: Oklahoma, West Virginia, Tennessee. (source: Prange, Dillon and Goldstein as reported in Zimm).
Oldbubblehead (talk) 07:52, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battle Damage Assessment 

message: Should we say T. Martin Bennett is a writer? He is not known for his writing. Should we say he's a screenwriter? Such a calling is relevant to this biography but difficult attach to Bennett unless he has already seen some success as a screenwriter. Should we call him an entrepreneur or successful small businessman? That would be a summary of the sort of prior career Bennett had as described in December 2008 Stars & Stripes. Thoughts? Binksternet (talk) 22:04, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: We should insert the information most relevant to his relationship to this topic.  If we're going to include his information (I was approached by Bennett and I need to review the data before I offer any opinion on the content, assuming I offer any opinion at all), my personal suggestion would be something along the lines of "T. Martin Bennett, whose research on Fuchida lead to a screenplay on Fuchida's life, wrote a rebuttal published in Naval War College Review criticising Parshall's research and conclusions; believing them to be based on conjecture and speculation."  People with better knowledge of the claim can word it more appropriately, but to try and say he's "not known for his writing" reads more as an attempt to diminish a voice that is considered important enough to be published in a journal, intentionally or not. Thargor Orlando (talk) 00:03, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's the current wording: "Writer T. Martin Bennett rebutted Parshall's arguments in two articles in the Naval War College Review. He believes Parshall has no case for any of his charges." Thargor's suggested wording is pretty good, here is a tweeked version:  "T. Martin Bennett, whose research on Fuchida led to a screenplay on Fuchida's life, wrote a rebuttal published in Naval War College Review criticising Parshall's research and conclusions, which he believes to be based on conjecture and speculation." -- Diannaa (talk) 01:12, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good start. However, is "based on conjecture and speculation" an accurate assesment of Bennett's rebuttal? I think the less run-on sentence "Writer T. Martin Bennett, whose research on Fuchida led to a screenplay on Fuchida's life, wrote a rebuttal published in Naval War College Review criticising Parshall's research and conclusions." would serve as well or better in either event. Tricericon (talk) 16:15, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: My assumption, in putting it in there, was that it was an accurate assessment based on previous edits and discussion.  Simply saying the research was criticized doesn't really give much relevant information, as all research is criticized by someone. Thargor Orlando (talk) 16:21, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Tricericon, the Bennett research has not yet led to a published book or screenplay. We should not credit Bennett with having published something he is still working on. Binksternet (talk) 17:10, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bennett's profession 

message: My recent copy edits were made with the intention of improving the flow of the writing. If any of them resulted in a change in meaning, then the originals can simply be copied and pasted back in with no damage done. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 05:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Copy edits

message: The link in #22 is dead, but the Daily Mail has a good photo of Fuchida's map:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2541293/Chilling-diagram-damage-Pearl-Harbor-drawn-Lieutenant-Commander-led-mission-sells-427-000-auction.html as well as other good pix, so a worthy reference to replace #22. Plus, the map was big:  "The map is incredibly accurate in terms of the positions of the 60 ships and Lt Cmdr Fushida was about 80 per cent correct in his results... He gave the document, that measures 2ft 7in by 23ins, to the historian Gordon Prange when he was interviewed by him in 1947."
I came to wikipedia after seeing a photograph captioned "the first plane drops the first bomb on pearl harbor" attributed to Fuchida:  http://www.usncva.org/clog/pearlharbor-pix.html (linked to from paragraph four photo credit in article here: http://www.usncva.org/clog/pearl1.shtml)
That photo coincidentally makes a circle back to the similar Pearl Harbor photograph included at bottom of the Daily Mail article, both apparently taken very close together.
Interesting to compare, best wishes to all.  Hope this is useful to an editor.
108.193.227.112 (talk) 20:47, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fuchida's map and Fuchida Pearl Harbor photograph 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: Where is Mitsuo Fuchida's Burial?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akhtar Hussain Samoo (talk • contribs) 10:15, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mitsuo Fuchida's Burial