Talk:Constantin Carathéodory

message: The existence of the Einstein-Carathéodory correspondence seems to be established.  I'd like to see more evidence that Aviram's apparent claim that Carathéodory deserves some credit for special relativity made "headlines worldwide" (I certainly never saw any of those headlines) and I'd like to know more about this Aviram.  Who is he, what is his training  background?  Do any reputable historians of science give serious credence to the suggestion that Carathéodory deserves some credit for special relativity?  Until such time as someone can supply reliable sources, I propose we tone down the claims in the article. ---CH 21:57, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutralization needed?

message: I put the following images archives on display, with translations where applicable,  for the convenience of any interested parties
===www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk===
2 Large portraits, 1 double large Greek stamp
*Sources info: None available on site
*Copyrights info: 
=== www.karatheodori.gr ===
#Portraits from various periods and other photos (20 in total)
#Family portraits and photos (22 in total)
#4 signed portraits dedicated to Caratheodory Greek general Plastiras, Archbishop Chrysostomos of Smyrna, Albert Einstein and  Hilbert!
#Places of interest Important places in the life of Caratheodory (19 total)]
#Misc. photos 3 personal hand-writtings, 1 bust, 1 Greek stamp (5 total)
#Photos from the International Congress "Constantin Caratheodory", Sept. 1-4, 2000 Vissa, Orestiada, Greece. Organisers and speakers from the congress including his daughter Despoina Caratheodory
#19th Hellenic Mathematical Education Symposium Hellenic Mathematical Society, 8-9-10 Nov. 2003, Komotini, Greece. Various images including his daughter Despoina Caratheodory (6 total)
#Honorary function in memory of C. Caratheodory orginised by the educational institution 'Linardatos-Auguleas Present Mrs. Despina Caratheodory-Rodopoulos.
#Construction of C.Caratheodory's statue Speech of (now former) Komitini's Mayor Mr. Vavatsiclis, Komotini, Greece (7 total)
*Sources info: None availabe on site, 
*Copyrights info: None available on site,
*Contact info: Authors, committee and members of the Greek Union of Friends of C. Caratheodory,               Development and maintenance of website.
I hope someone will find these interesting No31328 23:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Online photographic archives 

message: #Portraits from various periods and other photos (20 in total)
#Family portraits and photos (22 in total)
#4 signed portraits dedicated to Caratheodory Greek general Plastiras, Archbishop Chrysostomos of Smyrna, Albert Einstein and  Hilbert!
#Places of interest Important places in the life of Caratheodory (19 total)]
#Misc. photos 3 personal hand-writtings, 1 bust, 1 Greek stamp (5 total)
#Photos from the International Congress "Constantin Caratheodory", Sept. 1-4, 2000 Vissa, Orestiada, Greece. Organisers and speakers from the congress including his daughter Despoina Caratheodory
#19th Hellenic Mathematical Education Symposium Hellenic Mathematical Society, 8-9-10 Nov. 2003, Komotini, Greece. Various images including his daughter Despoina Caratheodory (6 total)
#Honorary function in memory of C. Caratheodory orginised by the educational institution 'Linardatos-Auguleas Present Mrs. Despina Caratheodory-Rodopoulos.
#Construction of C.Caratheodory's statue Speech of (now former) Komitini's Mayor Mr. Vavatsiclis, Komotini, Greece (7 total)
*Sources info: None availabe on site, 
*Copyrights info: None available on site,
*Contact info: Authors, committee and members of the Greek Union of Friends of C. Caratheodory,               Development and maintenance of website.
I hope someone will find these interesting No31328 23:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  www.karatheodori.gr 

message: In my opinion, this article should be rated of Minor importance, as Constantin Carathéodory's discoveries, while significant, weren't groundbreaking. 
Rather than be a reflection of the significance of his work, interest in Carathéodory stems from a combination of 
1) his cosmopolitan background and interests, which, even for a european academic, were unusual in his time
2) the value of his textbooks, which were clearly written and took an unconventional approach 
3) his reputation as a "renaissance man", unusually well educated in philosophy, history, etc.
4) his inititiatives in establishing educational institutions.
 
The tone of the article is one of uncritical admiration and, in fact, I think, this is one of the few times where I have felt that appropriate in an encyclopedia article
--Philopedia 16:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are probably not a mathematician otherwise you would know that Carathéodory's name crops up in really basic maths. His extension theorem for measure theory is fundamental for example. Every undergraduate should have met it. Also the existence theorem for ordinary differential equations is basic JFB80 (talk) 19:49, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Importance rating recommendation / general comments 

message: How do you pronounce his last name?
As it is written but the stress is on the final vowel.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by JFB80 (talk • contribs) 14:32, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is a recording of someone pronouncing the name: http://www.forvo.com/word/carath%C3%A9odory/ —TedPavlic (talk/contrib/@) 20:22, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am from Germany, i can assert that the recording gives the usual german pronounciation. But in contrast to the recording, i know a German professor who knows Greek, he stresses the final vowel, as it is said in the first answer here (by JFB80, from 19 September 2010) --Himbeerbläuling (talk) 18:35, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 09:46, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: I believe the list of books should be moved under Published Works, near the end of the article. Any objections? Sv1xv (talk) 09:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books, Published works 

message: Museum is operational, see http://www.karatheodori.gr/index.php?op=news&lop=viewNew&nid=20 (greek)
update needed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soathana (talk • contribs) 14:52, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Update needed

message: A reliable source is needed for the claim that Carathéodory's axiomatization of thermodynamics was acclaimed by Planck. There is not mention of it in Planck's 1922 seventh edition treatise.Chjoaygame (talk) 02:38, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know exactly where Planck said that, but there's a secondary source here (clearly predating wikipedia). Someone not using his real name (talk) 03:01, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

text: The sequencing in that source suggests it may have been in Planck's speech at the Prussian Academy of Sciences, with the occasion of Carathéodory's visit in 1919. Someone not using his real name (talk) 03:07, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

text: On the other hand, the paper Constantin Carathéodory and the axiomatic thermodynamics by Lionello Pogliani and Mario N. Berberan-Santos says something rather contrary: "The axiomatic treatment of Carathéodory started rather noiseless and it was only in 1921 that M. Born wrote three important articles [2–4] about Carathéodory’s axiomatic treatment. After that, the axiomatic thermodynamics caught the attention of well-known physicists of those times, and particularly of A. Landé (1888–1975) [5], M. Planck (1858–1947) [6], S. Chandrasekhar (1910–1995) [7], and W. Pauli (1900–1958) [8], among others, who recognized, and in one case even sharply criticized Carathéodory’s work. [...] If M. Born was the first renowned scientist, soon after first world war, who with a series of three studies [2–4] centered the attention on the new method, then M. Planck in 1926 [6] was the first sharp criticizer of the new method. He, in fact, concluded that the Thomson–Clausius treatment was far more reliable. Max Planck’s preferences were due to the fact that Thomson’s definition was much nearer to experimental evidence, i.e., to natural processes, which at the very end are the only ground on which all natural laws are erected. It is interesting to read his own words on the argument, “hat wohl noch niemand jemals Versuch angestellt in der Absicht, alle Nachbarzustände irgendeines bestimmten Zustandes auf adiabatischen Wege zu erreichen, . . . , das Prinzip gibt aber kein Merkmal an, durch welches die erreichbaren Nachbarzustände von den unerrreichbaren Nachbarzustände zu unterscheiden sind” (nobody has up to now ever tried to reach, through adiabatic steps only, every neighborhood of any equilibrium state and to check if they are inaccessible, . . . , this axiom gives us no hint which would allow us to differentiate between the inaccessible from the accessible states). Planck himself tried to put forward a treatment between Thomson–Clausius’ and Carathéodory’s approaches. His treatment was also based on the properties of Pfaffians." Anyway, that article is quite interesting, as it goes beyond most textbooks on the debates. (I've only quoted small portion here.) Someone not using his real name (talk) 03:16, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  reliable source needed for claim that his thermodynamics was acclaimed by Planck 

message: The usual biographies do not record that Einstein was a student of Carathéodory. The edit would need a reliable source if it were to stand.Chjoaygame (talk) 03:11, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: He could not have been because when Carathéodory started his academic career in 1908, Einstein had already completed the special theory of relativity. Their first known contact was in 1916.JFB80 (talk) 16:43, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It is popularly believed (especially in Greece) that Einstein once said of Carathéodory, "he was my teacher". The source is given as an interview in 1954 with further details unclear. It is possible that Einstein could have said this because Carathéodory's 1924 paper on Special Relativity showed how Einstein's axioms could be simplified. JFB80 (talk) 21:29, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  edit that Einstein was student 

message: Carathéodory himself invariably used the form Καραθεοδωρή corresponding to the Latinized version. Καραθεοδωρής is more formal and also occurs but rarely e.g. for the museum devoted to his work. Some of his ancestors also used this form. There is an extensive discussion about the correct spelling in the talk section of the Greek version of Wikipedia. The final contributor there appears to have given the correct explanation of the usual spelling that it uses of the genitive case of his family name which states his origin and who was his father (who also used the same spelling). The feminine form is also genitive.JFB80 (talk) 18:48, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Καραθεοδωρή or Καραθεοδωρής ? 

message: Substituted at 12:12, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Mathematics Genealogy  about Carathéodory says, Hermann Boerner was not a doctoral student of Carathéodory. His advisor was Leon Lichtenstein. The Genealogy names a student of Carathéodory's who is not named here in wikipedia: Demetrios Kappos. His student Athanassios G. Kartsatos is a professor at University of South Florida, and Kappos' student's student (via Souzana Papadopoulou, professor at University of Crete) Apostolos A. Giannopoulos (professor in Crete and Athens) was doctoral advisor of Grigoris Paouris, who now is Texas A&M professor. The question is: Who is right, the English wikipedia or the Mathematics Genealogy Project? --Himbeerbläuling (talk) 19:02, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: As a rule, here on Wikipedia, we only list people who have a page. Nerd271 (talk) 19:05, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doctoral students: mathematics genealogy 

message: “Constantin began his formal schooling at a private school in Vanderstock in 1881.”
What could that mean ? I cannot find a street or school with the name Vanderstock in today’s Brussels, or in the Internet. Riyadi (talk) 21:30, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandenstock