Talk:Postcyberpunk

message: Is the 'Cryptonomicon' really a post-cyberpunk novel or even strictly speaking science fiction? It resembles more of techno-thriller, with alternative history elements, if anything. --Axon
:I would say it is, going by the definition in the article. The book centres on the positive role played by technology in winning WW2, rather than focussing on its alienating potential. The characters are generally stable and well integrated in society, nothing like (for example) the aptly named 'Case' in Neuromancer. And there is a lot of technical material, which you don't really get with writers like Gibson. 
: It's not really Science fiction, agreed, but that is also true of much cyberpunk. Speculative fiction would be a more appropriate term all round. --R Lowry
::What about the definition of postcyberpunk (shouldn't there be a hyphen in that title?) as 'realistic near-futures rather than space opera-style deep futures'? By your looser definition lots of things are post-cyberpunk fiction, including many modern techno-thrillers! And I would disagree with your assertion: most cyberpunk is largely what we would regard to be science fiction with a few minority texts in the fringes. --Axon
::I have to agree with Axon here, I don't see anything at all about Cryptonomicon that qualifies it as "postcyberpunk", other than that it is, literally, written after the cyberpunk genre achieved it's apex of popularity. It's a thriller, it's not set in the future, but rather the present day, and largely concerned with a fictional(? I forget)historical mystery. Labelling it as "postcyberpunk" simply because it's written by Neal Stephenson (as appears to be the case) seems extremely silly to me, and I'm minded to edit it out of the list. --Eurhetemec
::Agree strongly.  Nothing in here at all that could be considered near-future.  It's all in the present or past.  Plus, despite the technology aspect, there's nothing science-fiction about the book.  The most advanced concept in the book is digital money, which is not a science fiction concept but something that has been around for years.  Yes, it's clearly an example of hacker-culture, and there's no dystopic vision, but without any science fiction elements at all I agree with Axon & Eurhetemec, and have taken it out of the article.  Fairsing 17:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The more I think about postcyberpunk, the more it comes across as a transitional thought.  When the pioneer cyberpunk writers of the 80s got sick of the concept, there was a change in writing style as new writers came into the mix.  But this is only a minor rationale for the change.  The real change was our experience with the internet. Writers in the 90s incorporated the idea of a networked universe.  As a side-thought, a networked universe implies a working society.  This is perhaps why Person gravitated towards the "betterment of society" message.  But as I state below, this doesn't hold water either in analyzing what came previously to 1993 or what came afterwards.  The big problem is the "post" notion implies "came after," yet clearly the themes of the stories that come after 1993 do not line up to Person's definition of post-cyberpunk.  At best the term is now a recognition that cyberpunk as a genre expanded past its earlier boundaries.  Everything else just doesn't fit when we get past the few examples that Person lists, and the totality of the genre is taken in account.--Sfam 01:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sui genre 

message: I have a slight problem with this page: it smells somewhat a little of genre creation by Lawrence Person. He seems to have created the term singlehandedly copy-and-pasting his manifesto into cyberpunk and science fiction newsgroup postings. Rather disturbingly, 90% of posts on a search for postcyberpunk in google groups are either posted by Person himself, or are part of threads where he has posted.
I think the problem is that the article describes postcyberpunk superceding cyberpunk as fact, despite the fact that the term was only devised a few years ago and it is a little too early to start deciding what is and isn't a valid and successful sci-fi litirary movement. I think the NPOV would be improved by toning down the "cyberpunk is dead, long-live cyberpunk". --Axon 12:54, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The more I think about postcyberpunk, the more it comes across as a transitional thought.  When the pioneer cyberpunk writers of the 80s got sick of the concept, there was a change in writing style as new writers came into the mix.  But this is only a minor rationale for the change.  The real change was our experience with the internet. Writers in the 90s incorporated the idea of a networked universe.  As a side-thought, a networked universe implies a working society.  This is perhaps why Person gravitated towards the "betterment of society" message.  But as I state below, this doesn't hold water either in analyzing what came previously to 1993 or what came afterwards.  The big problem is the "post" notion implies "came after," yet clearly the themes of the stories that come after 1993 do not line up to Person's definition of post-cyberpunk.  At best the term is now a recognition that cyberpunk as a genre expanded past its earlier boundaries.  Everything else just doesn't fit when we get past the few examples that Person lists, and the totality of the genre is taken in account.--Sfam 01:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Postcyberpunk as a done-deal 

message: Why is this novel mentioned here? There is very little mention of futuristic technology (only breifly mentioned in one sentence about a weapon that is only used once), and it does not fit the article description of postcyberpunk at all. -- LGagnon 18:59, July 30, 2005 (UTC)
:Well, it does involve a totally Corp world, which is very Cyberpunk.193.243.227.1 (talk) 15:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That in itself is not enough to make it cyberpunk or postcyberpunk. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 16:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Jennifer Government

message: where exactly does the difference lie? --MilkMiruku 14:51, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
:Postcyberpunk exists in a Dystopia while cyberprep does not.... I think-- Ruhtra
::No, I think postcyberpunk strives for realism while cyberprep is more utopian. Loremaster 21:10, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The definition given in the article seems to fit handily, to me.  Postcyberpunk would be the integration of future tech into a setting of a normal, functioning society, while cyberprep (future tech in an idealized society) could actually fit into a postcyberpunk setting, as could the original cyberpunk definition.  They could both exist as facets of a postcyberpunk world, but by definition postcyberpunk defines a world where people are, for the most part, the same as we are now with only the addition of futuristic technologies.  The Shadowrun game and series of novels would be a good example of the definition, as it has in the last 15 years (or so) created a fully realized world where high technology is a way of life.  There are "cyberpreps" and "cyberpunks", but they both live in the postcyberpunk world.  I tend to view the terms as I do their non-cyber equivalents.  Preps tend to live in a more idealized setting, while punks live in the grunge of the world (I'm defining them *very* loosely, so please forgive me).  The same could go for them when you add "cyber" to them. --DestradoZero 14:00, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Postcyberpunk]] vs. [[Cyberprep]] 

message: Would the television show by Matt Groening, "Futurama" be considered post cyberpunk? idbjoshm 27 January 2008  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.86.231.85 (talk) 06:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Other examples of Post Cyberpunk

message: I've cut these links as they would only seem relevant for defining postcyberpunk if they were referenced in the text, see WP:EL: -- Ashley VH (talk) 16:43, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links weakly related 

message: Google shows "43,000 for Postcyberpunk OR post-cyberpunk". The widespread use of the term in the real world would indicate the need to keep a separate article.
:Asspunk needs a seperate page
:That doesn't prove anything. We need non-trivial coverage by multiple third party sources. Plus you need to learn to use google better - it doesn't understand hyphens, hence it finds 78,000 pages with "Ass-punk"Yobmod (talk) 10:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seems the term is used a lot in the real world 

message: I think it is now a stretch to say that Stephenson is known 'primarily' for his work in postcyberpunk. Only Diamond Age and Snow Crash are, without dispute, in that genre. Stephenson has now published the Baroque Cycle and Anathem. Leoniceno (talk) 06:01, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro paragraph