Talk:Aerith Gainsborough/Name debate archive

message: I am happy to see that a consensus has been reached on moving the page to Gainsborough; I have never ever seen reference to "Gainsbourg" before this, and it just screams typo to me. I apologize that I did start to move things before looking at the talk page here, but at least since the move was going to be made, I haven't done anything that needs to be reverted. Sorry to go off unilaterally like that. LordAmeth 02:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is all well and good, and I don't think we had any real argument against changing it to "Gainsborough" (and, indeed, it could probably have been done much earlier). But there is more than enough of a debate on the surname that it would be entirely inappropriate to "force a finalization" without a vote. – Seancdaug 04:29, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I was only intending to be "pushy" about the last name, not the first.  Honestly, I could care less whether the first name used is "Aeris" or "Aerith" because I've seen both used, apparently based solely on personal exposure and preference.  My only argument in favor of "Aeris" is that it is all that Square has "officially" put out for this character in the game of origination.  Waiting to see what FF7:AC says the name should be is probably a very good idea.  If I continue, I will begin talking in circles, so I shall leave my end of it there.  Until specified otherwise, I simply vote for "Aeris" and shall fade back to silence for now.  Daivox 06:56, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Ok, sorry to repeat myself, but I'm answering this wherever it shows up on the discussion... Aeris is not a Japanese transliteration of Earth. That book, though it may have been "official" was wrong. Aeris is an actual word, a latin word. Aerith is not. Earth doesn't become earisu, it becomes Aasu. If it were an alternate katakana rendering of the word as someone said, it would not be eaRIsu at all, but earusu. Ri always indicates the sounds "Ree" or "Lee" never just "r." And if her name were a result of a transliteration of Earth, then Earth would be her proper name, not Aerith. WhateverTS 16:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

text:  and the naming by the official guide wasn't about the spelling of the word, but just an assumption as to the origin which would be believeable if it weren't for the fact Aeris (much like cloud or strife or sephiroth) is a real word that existed before Final Fantasy 7... WhateverTS 16:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming...

message: In reference to the mention that the name Aerith "could also be based off of the Hebrew name Erith, which means "flower"": I would like to point out that there is no 'th' sound in Hebrew. I offer this not as part of the naming debate, simply as a curiosity; a point of interest, if you will. LordAmeth 02:36, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Out of interest.. how would you say Erith in Hebrew then? — CuaHL 05:10, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know much about Hebrew vocabulary, so I had to go look it up. According to Wiktionary and a couple of other online dictionaries, the Hebrew word for 'flower' is perakh. So, whatever word Erith is supposed to refer to, my guess is that it's either Eris or Erit, depending on what letter it ends with. (I've asked some friends, waiting to hear an answer. I'll post here when I learn more.) LordAmeth 11:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

text: For all those interested, I have heard back from my friends in Judaic Studies. There is a flower called asphodel which, in modern Hebrew transliteration would be spelled "irit". In older forms of pronunciation, it is quite conceivable that this word would be pronounced "erith," much as many synagogues use "Beth" for "Bet" or "Beit". Erith/irit is spelled ayin-yod-resh-yod-tav. LordAmeth 15:34, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

text:  You're absolutely right; the letter tav can have a 't' sound, or an 's' sound. But in normal Hebrew pronunciation, it never has a 'th' sound. Only in more colloquial speech, particularly in Yiddish, does it have that sound. LordAmeth 00:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If this is the case, however, 1. Her name should be Erith, not Aerith. 2. If we follow traditional hebrew pronunciation, Sephiroth would also be an erroneous pronunciation, except it is an accepted spelling among many english speaking Kabbalists. I still say it came from the Latin word Aeris. The "Earth" explanation was entirely rediculous, in my opinion.WhateverTS 00:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Incidentally....

message: In the credits for Advent Children, her name is listed as Aerith Gainsborough, there for this is the current, and official cannon word on all Japanese localizations. This means that the big event will be this November when the North American release comes out - however, as a prior prediction (and based on the way the credits are organized) - if the is not an English dub then we can be sure that the credits will not be changed and Aerith Gainsborough will stay the same, otherwise it is up in the air as to if it will be changed or not. - Darkstar949 13:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Advent Children Usage

message: In the original American PSX release of FF7, her name was Aeris Gainsborough. Whomever has a scan of the original American instruction manual can upload that as a source if need be. (I, unfortunately, have lost mine.) While the article may have originally been called "Aerith Gainsbourg", at NO POINT IN HISTORY was the character in question ever called that. (Except for possibly in fan translations, but those have little, if any, authority.) Unless someone has a good reason otherwise, I'm removing the phrase "originally Aerith Gainsbourg." Viltris 06:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem with it being removed from the page -- and in all honesty, its presence never sat well with me to begin with due to there not being a source for it -- but I must protest having the article read as "formerly 'Aeris Gainsborough.'" It was not originaly "Aeris Gainsborough." This game is from Japan, not the United States. The "original" American manual does not have the original spelling. Japan -- and Aerith's creators -- have always used "Aerith" as the official romanization of her name, and that's also the romanization now used in official materials in the United States. Thus, it should read as "also known as 'Aeris Gainsborough'" instead. I'm going to fix this. Ryu Kaze 17:46, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Show me the evidence that "Japan -- and Aerith's creators -- have always used "Aerith" as the official romanization of her name". All I have ever seen are fan translations. Viltris 08:44, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Gainsbourg"

message: "While her name was translated in the US version of Final Fantasy VII as "Aeris", her name was officially changed to "Aerith" after her cameo in Kingdom Hearts"
If there is to be any implication of Square-Enix officially changing her name to Aerith, I believe it should have a citation for proof, otherwise not mentioned at all.
I'm not taking a stand on the Aeris/Aerith issue, merely pointing this out, because if it's to be used as the basis for arguing any point, it can't be mere speculation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.183.52.75 (talk • contribs) .
Well, judging from IMDB info, that's how the name appears in Advent Children, I think it's so far safe to say it's true. And assuming KH used Aerith consistently, then that's even better bet. And I'm sure as heck hoping they stick to one version anyway =) --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 19:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IMDB also said Eminem was going to star in the movie. Don't trust them too much. =) What does the official movie website say? I can't see text due to some weirdness with Flash player... =/ --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 10:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: People actually in attendance at the screening of the English version of Advent Children in Hollywood last week reported that her name was still "Aerith" in the credits. IMDB is full of crap. Ryu Kaze 13:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "officially" changed to Aerith?

message: Isn't it odd that the opening of this page states "it is Wikipolicy to use the official name" when, actually, it isn't? Wikipolicy is to use the most common name. Thus, this article should actually have been called 'Aeris Gainsborough' all along, simply because this is the most commonly known name. The truth can, of course, be explained in the article. (Note: I'm not arguing which form is right, simply which Wikipolicy states should be used). --86.144.234.245 21:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Something strange about the name

message: "Aerith," the actual official romanization of the name, would rarely occur in the romaji system due to the lack of a "th" sound in Japanese, though "th" is a valid, if not somewhant antiquated rendering of "su" (ス).
I've never heard of this, and quite frankly, I doubt that it's true. The Hepbrun system, which is the first "modern" one, has always had it as "su", and the Japanese developed (Nihon-shiki, Kunrei-shiki) systemss certainly wouldn't have it. 
Was the polite copula was romanised as "deth" in the past? Hou about "suteki", was it "thteki"? I doubt it. The only way I can think of it being true is from very early romanisation based on Portugese (first to come to Japan and so on), what with "s" being pronounced as "th" in some words, and these wouldn't have been "standard" by any means. Any explanation? --88.105.241.73 01:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm... I guess the statement is a little confusing, if you don't already know what it's talking about. "ス" is never romanized as "th", but the "th" in loanwords (and names) is generally written using "サ","シ","ス","セ", or "ソ" in katakana. For example, "Thank you" is written "サンキュー" in katakana. Also, the Japanese pronounce the word like they write it, because it's as close as they can typically get to the original pronunciation of the loanword. So, to keep going with my example, they would pronounce "Thank you" as "Sankyuu". They don't have a "th" sound, so it's hard for them to pronounce. Therefore, they replace it with the closest sound that they can pronounce, which, in this case, is "ス". I guess the biggest confusing factor here is calling "Aerith" a romanization, which it isn't. It's her original name, and "エアリス" is the Japanese transcription of "Aerith". Hmm... Now that I've thought this out, that weird-sounding sentence seems more than out of place -- It's misleading and confusing, if not flat-out wrong. -- Rablari Dash 02:30, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding "th" statement

message: Not meaning to spark up more controversy, but has anybody checked the official square-enix page to see the spellings of "AeriS" whatever her name may be? Here is a quote from before "it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name" - if her 'official' name was Aerith, would Square/Enix not rectify this website: http://na.square-enix.com/games/ff7/aeris-char.html ?? Seriously people, this is the software company's website.  Why would they not change it to Aerith if that were the correct name? Dashboardy 22:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They're pretty much only using it in COMPILATION of FINAL FANTASY VII stuff (i.e. "Aerith" in Kingdom Hearts).  Seeing as the newer installments of the compilation almost never actually mention Aerith's name, I guess it's not too necessary to retcon and "Aeris" is already so well-established over here… (and you know that site's all the way back from FFVII's NA release? Square Enix hasn't updated any of there old pages…at all.)—ウルタプ 03:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have never played the other games - so you are saying she is called Aerith in KH, and other FF7 extensions, and only referred to as "Aeris" in FF7 itself? Why then is the intro "is a female protagonist of the role playing game Final Fantasy VII"? The intro makes it seem as though Aeris' character's main role is in FF7, and not KH or other games... this would strike me as reason for either changing the intro, or using Aeris rather than Aerith.  Also someone gave 'proof' that her name was Aerith by showing an advert/poster of her name spelt Aerith. I fail to see how this is adequate in choosing a name, seeing as how for every "aerith" advert there is also an "aeris" advert (as well as on the official website) Regardless of whether they have updated it or not, the spelling on the software company's website is "Aeris". However, if in the majority of other games she is referred to as "aerith" I will concede as long as the introduction is necessarily changed. Dashboardy 04:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe we should just make a note somewhere on the page about her name being different in certain installments? It doesn't seem like that big a deal to me--it's obviously Aerith because Aerith has now been used twice or three times as many as Aeris, and more recently. Aeris is relevant to FFVII the game. Anything else is Aerith, or at least from what I've seen. Make a note of it, and leave it 'Aerith' or 'Aeris' in the respective places. At least that's my opinion. (KyrieSanctus 06:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Official Square-enix page

message: I know that the accepted official name of the character as a whole is "Aerith", but when using quotes taken from a specific version of the game (in this case, presumably the North American PC version), shouldn't we use the default names given in said version? (T.J. Fuller, Jr. 12:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. (KyrieSanctus 06:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree. Pomte 21:24, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree. Dashboardy 14:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree.—ウルタプ 00:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Quotes from ''Final Fantasy VII'' (NA Version)

message: "People are aware in FFVII English localisations Aerith's name is Aeris but it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name, and Aeris was merely the official English name."
I'm wondering why the following articles don't follow the mentioned policy: 
*Balrog (Street Fighter)
*M. Bison
*Vega (Street Fighter)
Could it be due to the Naming conventions?
Just a thought. Unregistered (76.21.27.63) (talk) 14:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That doesn't clear things up as much as you think. Aerith is the official spelling for new works. This may include the general 'ff7 universe' that they've been extending. However, within the context of the original FF7, 'Aeris' is the one and only official english spelling for the name. Bladestorm 13:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really. The one and only official name is now Aerith. Yes, the original game itself still says, and will always say (since you can't go into the discs and edit it), Aeris, but that doesn't mean it's correct. Nique talk 18:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Show me where in Advent Children is the name "Aerith" mentioned, and I doubt Kingdom Hearts is considered canon. I also don't think that using an unreleased/untranslated game as a source counts as proof of "Aerith" being the original name. Unregistered (76.21.27.63) (talk) 09:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, if you got your hands on the English boxed set, the script included lists Aerith, not Aeris. The name may not be mentioned in the movie specifically, but it was changed. Anyone else with the boxed set can confirm this, as well. Also, Kingdom Hearts may not be canon to the storyline, but the names are. All recent media released have listed Aerith, not Aeris, which means that Aerith is now her official name. Nique talk 14:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Additionally, the English voice actor and the credits (both English and Japanese) for Advent Children say "Aerith." The article should clearly remain at Aerith Gainsborough. 15:28, 20 March 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.209.131.242 (talk) 20:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: The Japanese pronunciation (if you'd take a look at the Romanji spelling at the front of the article) is roughly "Ay-ah-ree-suu", but said quickly enough and with variant emphasis to sound roughly like the character's most official spelling.  Note that many Final Fantasy names are not Japanese in origin, but must have a Japanese (usually katakana) version to allow for non-English-speaking Japanese to say it.  To clear up the "Leon" accusation, Jiminy writes in-game that his true name is Squall (how he learned that, I do not know), and that "Leon" is only a placeholder name until he can restore the Radiant Garden.  However, that note about using the official name bothers me in that Final Fantasy characters, namely from the SNES era, are given their Japanese last names with their North American (and other such places) first names.  IIRC, no officially licensed material gives last names for non-Japanese releases, so the characters ought to have their Japanese names (many of which are as or more Western than their Western counterparts) for clarity.  T.J. Fuller, Jr. 18:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name confusion

message: I recently made an edit changing most Aeris' to Aerith that was reverted.  I understand that there is an argument over whether Aerith or Aeris should be used as the correct name, but I feel that, in the way that the introduction is worded and the article itself is titled, Aerith is the most common spelling used, however, throughout the article, the spelling goes back and forth.  I feel like, whichever form is chosen, there should be consistency throughout the article, except when explaining and quoting from translations using either specific name.  It's just that, if the article is called Aerith, but she is talked about in some sections exclusively as Aeris, I feel like that could be improved.  Closetoeuphoria 02:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is definitely consistent currently. There is a character named Aeris in Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy Tactics, and the same character is named Aerith in other materials and games. The article is in line with this fact and clearly states it in its Development section. Kariteh 09:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Aerith/Aeris inconsistency

message: This article needs to be redirected/renamed to "Aeris Gainsborough" ASAP.  Under the wiki guidelines we must use the English translation name, Aeris, first and mention that she's named Aerith in the Japanese. Parjay ► Talk  19:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are many who agree with you, myself included, but it is a pointless, and failing battle. No matter how many times the article is changed to Aeris it is constantly reverted to Aerith. Fans of the original game are being forced to accept the new continuity. Adzma 14:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, Wiki guidelines say Aerith is correct. In case you haven't been paying attention, that is her official name as of the first Kingdom Hearts, and not to mention was how it was romanized before there ever was an FFVII in English. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 11:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Incorrect, under the guidlines we have to use Aeris.  Under the guidelines we need to use the most widespread recognisable name, and FF7 with "Aeris" sold millions, and has been out for ten years. Parjay ► Talk  14:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Didn't realize the two comments here were almost a month old...but anyway (and this is just rehashing everything said a million times, so what's one more?), how do you know it's the most recognizable name? The KH series, in fact, has sold more than FFVII + FFT, and when you add Advent Children, the number is even higher. As has been said many times, the knowledge of the biggest fans do not in fact reflect the knowledge of the masses in these things. Remember, we're NOT talking about FFVII alone here, but the character as a whole. Plus, I would say, considering it's been this way for at least two years on WP, the consensus pretty much leans toward Aerith. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 14:38, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Under the guidelines, it's not.  Aeris has been named the longest in America, we have to use that.  Maybe in ten years we can switch it to Aerith. Parjay ► Talk  14:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, WP:NCON states the "most common use of a name takes precedence", not the name with the longest use. With numerous new titles from Square Enix using "Aerith" and other websites, like IMDB, ANN, and some fansites, using it as well, it appears that "Aerith" has become more widespread. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:23, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's my point though, Aeris has been the most common, its been around the longest, for ten years.  You'll be hard pressed to find that "Aerith" is more common due to the longevity. Parjay ► Talk  16:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand that Aeris has been used longer and that it was the most common name. But that does not make it the current most commonly used name. Especially since more official titles have been released that use Aerith. It has been in official use for five years; Kingdom Hearts has been out in the US since 9/2002. That and a number of third party websites have begun to use it as well. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Still, that doesn't make it the most un-common name, either.  Well I'll look into the numbers and see what can be made from it; which is the most common, we shall see. Parjay ► Talk  16:52, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

text: (un-indent) I'd like to point out that it isn't just the de facto common name. It's not like the official name of "Aerith" counts for jack squat. Axem Titanium 00:59, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirect