Talk:Eliza Haywood

message: I took out the Pope connection in the photo caption, but left the discussion of Haywood's feature in The Dunciad intact in the Critical Reception section. Though her Dunciad connection exists, I feel that it should not be the first bit of information someone recieves of her. The note from Geogre below "the question is how readers of the encyclopedia will hear the name and seek the account" is interesting. My first encounter of Haywood was not in The Dunciad; she is now considered to be a significant figure of the 18th century for reasons beyond Pope (see article). I wonder about the premise of writing an encyclopedia article based on where we think someone heard her name and do not think that should be the basis of what is said in the article. --Susiebowers 01:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Although Pope’s printed denunciation of Haywood is significant in terms of defining the contemporary literary and social climate, it seems to detract from Haywood's career and person that the entire article is headlined by an image with the inscription, “…the same time that Alexander Pope was describing her as…” which presents Haywood as secondary in her own Wikipedia entry. She is defined at the outset by her relationship to a male literary figure. Should she not be defined by her own literary merits first, I wonder? (Susie) Susiebowers
: That's a valid point, but the question is how readers of the encyclopedia will hear the name and seek the account.  If we think that she's more famous as a dunce than a novelist, which was my view as a Popian, then we go that way.  If we think that she's more known and studied now as a novelist (and it's certainly arguable), then probably not.  However, for anyone who has been reading about her in Dunciad, the portrait is important because of Pope's "cow like udders and ox-like eyes" physical insult (one of the very few physical insults he uses; it makes me think that there is an undiscovered anecdote where Haywood made fun of Pope's size, as he so very rarely talks about how people look).  Also, the caption sets the stage straight off:  This is a person who is not like Pope's image of her.  I.e. you can read it as a challenge to any preconception coming from Pope.  Geogre 01:53, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I'm here, the category I created of "literary dunce" was non-judgmental.  There is an entire coterie there, and I think a person (and say this on the category page) has to be actually kind of good to fall into the category.  The really lightweight and vaccuous dunces don't rate a mention in Pope and Swift and Dryden.  What I wanted was a category that caught everyone who was characterized as a dunce by any of the satirists of the 18th century, irrespective of Pope but primarily among the Scriblerians.  I had just gotten all of the ones from Dunciad in, and I'm going to sooner or later start going back through Swift.  Most of Dryden's figures (Absalom and Achitophel) have articles already.  Geogre 01:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I can see how it is a significant point to notice that Pope insulted her physique- a very uncommon thing for him to do given that he was conscious of his own physical body and did not want to draw attention to it. Perhaps, then, that point could be mentioned very briefly here in the article: Haywood was uncommonly highlighted physically and sexually (“cow-like udders”) by Pope. Her “dunce-ness” comes from her body whereas most male writers were “dunced” for being dull or something else relating to intellect. --Susiebowers 13:14, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Literary Dunce?

message: It's the only article I've encountered on Wiki today that redirects this article to a site called Meevio (spelling may not be accurate). My virus protection is up to date as are my hosts file. Why is this happening and how can it be fixed?
98.225.90.57 (talk) 18:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article taken over by spam redirect 

message: I've made a few small edits to this page. Firstly, I put a question mark next to her birth year (it is not certain exactly when she was born). I also noticed that someone suggested that critics agree she was likely born in Shropshire. From what I have read (admittedly, not so much), critics are not so certain of her birthplace either (in fact, Blouch considers the Shropshire theory a "long-shot possibility" (538)). Thus, I simply added "or London" so that readers will understand that there is still some debate. I have also thrown in some citations, and I ask others to do the same. In general, the article's citations are weak and the article oftentimes suggests Original Research and a lack of Neutral POV. There are also numerous weasel words, some of which I have marked. JSRudolph talk 19:18, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Few Edits -- more needed 

message: I added the title page from her work, Fanomina, which is significant since she is a literary figure. Dlaitinen (talk) 19:32, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added title page of ''Fantomina'' 

message: I added an image of the title page from her work, The Adventures of Eovaai, which is one of her works that was both important and popular. The image was added to the "Fiction" section. LesBrooks (talk) 01:17, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added title page of ''The Adventures of Eovaai'' 

message: I added an image  of the Haymarket Theatre as to show where Haywood spent a large portion of her acting career. The image was added to the "Acting and Drama" section. LesBrooks (talk) 14:46, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added image of the Haymarket Theatre 

message: I moved the "Acting and Drama" section under the biography section of the article because Haywood was an actress before she published literary works. This was done to keep chronological order. I also added in a note about what play she appeared in at the Smock Alley Theatre, as this was important because this was when and where she began her acting career.LesBrooks (talk) 14:47, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved and Added to "Acting and Drama" Section 

message: I added an extensive list of Haywood's works, including lists of her published collections, individual works published before 1850, and the works published by Haywood. This list is significant because it allows readers to see an extensive list of her works. LesBrooks (talk) 09:20, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added List of Haywood's Works 

message: I added an image of the title page from her work, Love in Excess, which is Haywood's first published novel (marking its significance). The image was added to the "Fiction" section. LesBrooks (talk) 09:20, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added image of the title page of ''Love in Excess'' 

message: I added an image of the title page of The Secret History of the Present Intrigues of the Court of Caramania. The image was added to the "Political Writings" section. LesBrooks (talk) 09:22, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added image of title page of ''The Secret History of the Present Intrigues of the Court of Caramania''  

message: I added an image of the title page of Memoirs of an Unfortunate Young Nobleman. The image was added to the "Political Writings" section. LesBrooks (talk) 09:25, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added image of title page of ''Memoirs of an Unfortunate Young Nobleman'' 

message: I added an image of St. Margaret's Church because it is where Haywood was buried in an unmarked grave. The image was added to the "Biography" section. LesBrooks (talk) 11:20, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added image of St. Margaret's Church 

message: I have added some biographical information about Haywood's speculated origins, marriage, and literary career. I have also reordered this section so that it moves chronologically. LesBrooks (talk) 11:20, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to Biography Section 

message: Since the publication of K. King's Political Biography and numerous other critical works on Haywood, the article needs to reflect a more up-to-date reception that emphasizes the multiple genres she wrote in and her professional success.  With regard to the mention in Pope's work, it is a minor element in her overall career, and if it is important to literary history it might be replaced on Pope's page, since it has more to do with him and his writing than her. LLRungegordon (talk) 14:03, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical Reception and Pope write- up needs updating 

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thread_title:  External links modified