Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/July 2006

message: Hey there!  I am pretty new to wikipedia, but I have been having a good time putting some articles together.  I would appreciate if anyone would take a look at my most recent one, and give me some feedback.
Sorry if this isn't the right place to make this request!
Here it is:
yotsuya kaidan
Thanks!
MightyAtom 04:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to LordAmeth for his help!  
MightyAtom 03:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Take a look? 

message: Here are the current candidates:
Does anyone else have any candidates? I think leaving this open until Friday, June 9, 2006 would allow anyone interested to propose candidates. Please keep in mind that the candidates must be free. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:41, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As the voting's way overdue, I propose that we start the voting process. Of course, if anybody else has any suggestions, please feel free to add the image and a separate heading below. I suggest we leave this vote up for about 10 days, or when consensus is reached. Cheers, Tangotango 17:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like 10 days isn't going to cut it. Only three people have "voted" so far. Everyone, please cast your support under whichever section below. We need to get this decided.  ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please come offer your opinion if you haven't already. There are quite a few members of this project, and we need more input than just five individuals. Thanks for your time! (^_^) ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks for finally putting an end to this poll :) - Tangotango 18:50, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WP:J Barnstar discussion

message: *Support - MightyAtom 12:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barn tomoe 

message: *Support - Tangotango 17:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barn sensu (raster or vector version) 

message: *Support - Neier 11:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barn sensu (red hinomaru version) 

message: Hello all. Today I began creating a "kuge" category, surprised that no one had previously. I quickly came across :Category:Japanese nobility. Is this category sufficient to toss in all the officials, bureaucrats, and ministers, or should we create a separate category for "Classical (Nara and Heian periods) Japanese bureaucrats and court officials?" And if we do create that category, what do we call it? Thanks for your input. LordAmeth 12:36, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe something like :Category:Aristocracy in Japan? What do other countries use? ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 22:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there already is a "Japanese nobility" category, so I'm not sure "Aristocracy in Japan" would be any kind of improvement. I was really thinking of something that would separate out those nobles who held positions in government or at court during particular periods in history. LordAmeth 04:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe you could separate them according to highest rank and historical period, aggregating both to avoid having a huge number of categories. A category for those whose highest rank was 1-2-3, another for 4-5-6, another for low-ranking people. Cross-categorize by time period, with a classical category ending in 1191, a medieval category for Kamakura-Muromachi, and a Tokugawa category. (Categorize by year of death, I'd say.) So a category like Category:High-ranking nobility of classical Japan would contain the Michinagas, and Category:Middle-ranking nobility of Edo-period Japan would contain Kira Kozuke etc. This scheme would require nine categories: a modest number. Add a category for Kazoku to bring it up to 10. Does that sound workable? Fg2 04:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there enough articles on all of these minor nobles to sufficiently populate the categories? ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:31, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not, so create categories as needed, I'd say. It's good to have a framework that's expandable. The minor guys outnumbered the big guns by a large margin, but the important ones get articles before the others, so I'd guess that the high-ranking nobility categories would get created and populated first. Fg2 06:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to go ahead and create categories for "Kuge of Classical Japan", "Kuge of Feudal Japan" and "Kazoku." That should pretty much cover the issues I was having. At some later point, I suppose, if these categories get too full, we can always shift to another structure. LordAmeth 12:24, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heian-era court officials, bureaucrats 

message: I am trying to establish a "Far East task force," or, if there is enough support, a "Japanese military history task force" sub-section of the Military history WikiProject. If you're already working on military history articles, then all you need to do is offer your support and add your name to a list of task force members. You're already doing the task force's work; we don't ask much more than that. The link to my task force proposal is here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Far_East_Task_Force_Proposal. Thank you. LordAmeth 15:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Military History task force 

message: A number of us are talking about capitalization of Japanese song, band, and album titles on the WikiProject Songs page. Please come and register an opinion. Thanks!--Mike Selinker 14:52, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese music capitalization discussion 

message: Would anyone happen to know places to look for critical reviews of Japanese television programs? Google.co.jp isn't turning up anything useful, but I probably don't know the right terms to use. Any help would be appreciated!--Monocrat 17:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I fear that the great majority of Japanese television programs don't merit critical reviews, though some do have a sort of sociopathological fascination. Every Sunday, the Japan Times has a column titled "Media Mix" in which one Philip Brasor writes about TV. Try googling for those search terms. -- Hoary 10:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The great majority of all television programs, regardless of origin, don't merit critical reviews, though they still exist. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:02, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Television criticism in Japan 

message: The article Tokio has been promoted to featured status. Fg2 03:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Tokio" becomes a featured article in Spanish 

message: This article has been listed as A class, it failed GA for having significant pieces of information ommitted from the article. The article in the lead says the following ethnic break down of the comfort women is were 40 % Japanese, 20 % Koreans, 10 % Chinese, with others making up the remaining 30 %(uncited), yet the article only covers the events surrounding Korean women, that leaves 80% of the article still to be completed. The article is currently has on going edit wars over the information and its presentation. To be A class the article needs to be  . At the stage where it could at least be considered for featured article status it needs also to Provides a well-written, reasonably clear and complete description of the topic This article doesnt meet this criteria and I suggest that it be re-assessed. Gnangarra 09:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been fixed. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Comfort women]] A-class? 

message: After reviewing the Tokyo article for Version 0.5, and reading of the immense size and importance of the Tokyo economy, I was very surprised to see that there is no article called Economy of Tokyo.  Many cities with sizeable economies have articles of this sort, such as Economy of Vancouver or Economy of New York City.  Would this be a useful article to have for Tokyo as well, or is it inappropriate?  Thanks, Walkerma 04:55, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: An article on the economy of Tokyo seems worthwhile. Before embarking on the project, though, it would be worthwhile deciding on the geographic boundaries of the subject. If you look at Talk:Tokyo, you'll find spirited discussion on the topic of just what Tokyo is. An article could cover the 23 special wards (which up to 1943 were together incorporated as the city of Tokyo), or Tokyo-to (the larger geographic unit, related to the city as British Columbia is to Vancouver or as the State of New York is to the City), or the Greater Tokyo area. The decision can guide editors as they search for and sort out information. Fg2 07:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For an article about the economy, only the Greater Tokyo Area seems a useful target, because you can't really separate the economies of Tokyo and its surrounding prefectures. --Mkill 17:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

text: It does seem worthwhile, but I would it be possible to update broader economic/sociological articles, such as Labor market of Japan, Women in Japan, and Japanese work environment. Some aspects of these are pretty old.--Monocrat 18:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economy of Tokyo article needed? 

message: I've just encountered this gem at Tsu, Mie: "Tsu" is believed by many to be the shortest-pronounceable city name in the world, having more or less the sound of the letter "z" (as opposed to the name of the letter) in English. Aside from the way in which this raises the possibility of city names that cheat because they're not pronouncable (let's imagine one named, say, /qp/ in IPA), this suggests a certain misapperception of the pronunciation of Japanese. Maybe the misapperception is mine. -- Hoary 08:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the second half of that as it's incorrect. Does anyone know if there's a list of "short city names" or something like it which could be used to verify the remaining statement? ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:28, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't know of such a list. You might check "What links here" from Tsu. The statement was rather odd, wasn't it. Fg2 07:11, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now rewritten as: As a monomoraic, coda-less monosyllable, "Tsu" is an unusually short city name. (I wonder if some town somewhere has a monomoraic, coda-less, onset-less monosyllabic name.) -- Hoary 16:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tsu 

message: Could a Japanese speaker please take a look at Dattebayo, we keep having anime fanboys who only know of it from Naruto coming in and saying that it means "Believe it".  In addition, the article needs some cleanup and expansion anyway.  --Cyde↔Weys 13:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think "Believe it" is a particularly good or particularly bad translation.  tebayo appears to be a fairly idiosyncratic (read: Naruto-specific) version of the standard teba ... the "yo" makes it a little more emphatic, but I'm not sure I agree with the statement about it making the "speaker sound rough and brusque, and tougher than they really are", certainly not with respect to the standard teba.  Nor would I agree that it has no "semantic meaning" (isn't this phrase a bit redundant anyway?); it certainly has meaning ... one that, unfortunately, is probably lost in translation despite a translator's best efforts (like dialect, these types of idiosyncratic/non-standard usages keep translators up late at night, tearing their hair out).  Either way, this article should be a speedy merge with a Naruto-themed article. CES 13:54, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is at heart a dictionary definition. Wikipedia routinely transfers dictionary definitions to Wiktionary. Fg2 23:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dattebayo 

message: Could someone have a look at Kume Keiichiro and Kume Kunitake. They are father and son but share the same birth and death dates. Thx MeltBanana 17:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Two confused people

message: If anyone has the time, I put together two new articles for WikiProject Japan
Thanks!
*Botan Doro 
*Bancho Sarayashiki
MightyAtom 13:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like them. Good job! (^_^) ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Two new articles

message: So, how about this:
:For words ending in 絵 (e), place a hyphen directly before the "e" in the romanized word (e.g., yamato-e, ukiyo-e). Do not use a hyphen for words ending with 画 (ga) (e.g., manga, bunjinga). Do not use a hyphen for words beginning with 絵 or 画 (e.g. emaki rather than "e-maki").
Is that simple enough? Any ideas for wording changes? ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 22:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me. Thanks for organizing it into a proper policy for us to agree to (or to oppose). LordAmeth 01:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree Fg2 01:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal based on above discussion

message: In a separate discussion, someone brought up the point that while our train station articles usually link to the city or town that they are located in, the reverse is not usually true.  There are some exceptions: Chuo-ku, Osaka and Izumi-ku, Sendai have their stations listed; but, most cities and towns do not.
Even if adding a list of stations will significantly increase the size of some articles on the smaller towns around the country, I think that it is a good idea to add them, and it is a good idea to come up with some sort of standard way to do it.  In various articles, I have seen sections titled Transport , or Transportation, or Train stations.  We should pick one (or a different one) and go with it.
What do others think? Neier 14:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, this is a practice that is pretty much standard in the Japanese Wikipedia (airports, trains, long-distance buses, highways, boats, etc. are included under the Transportation (交通) section).  For smaller and medium sized cities, both the train lines and the stations are listed, for large cities like Tokyo with a massive amount of stations, the train lines and just the main stations are listed.  For a country like Japan, whose rail network is like its veins and arteries, I think this would be valuable information to include. CES 15:47, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I too agree that transportation is valuable information for an article on a place. A point to address is which article should have the details. Neier mentioned a couple of wards, and the special wards have similar lists. For the biggies like Osaka, the wards seem to be a good place to put the transportation section; the article on the city can have a summary with highways and railroad lines and the most important interchanges and stations, and the airports. For less populous places, the municipality seems appropriate. Not sure whether we need to make a rule or guideline for this, but mentioning it in an internal comment (e.g. "This article on the city lists only the most important stations; if you want to add more information, please consider placing it in the article on the ward instead of the article on the city") might help keep things under control. Likewise, if a place has a separate article, "Transportation in XXX" (as Japan does) we can use the main template to refer to it as we do to History of Japan (from Japan) etc. And add an internal comment to keep the transportation section from getting too far out of line with the rest of the article. As usual, we can feel free to add a balanced look at the big picture. Fg2 10:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: That's a good suggestion.  Do you think they should be listed in track order, or in alphabetic order, though?  Listing them in a line like that enables us to convey that extra bit of info (adjacency), which can't be easily done in the vertical format, but we may need to be careful, since the hyphens imply that the stations are next to each other (which is usually the case.  There are always exceptions, as neither district boundaries nor train lines are particularly straight).  It looks like the Japanese side dealt with this by using a comma in those situations (:ja:栗原市#交通), and they chose to go in track order, and not by aiueo order.  Neier 23:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think listing them in track order is best. Perhaps we should even put a note to that effect at the beginning fo the section: The stations are listed in track order, from the beginning to the end of the line., or something like that. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:42, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transport in cities/towns 

message: * JR East 
**Ōu Main Line: Innai Station - Yokobori Station - Mitsuseki Station - Kami-Yuzawa Station - Yuzawa Station - Shimo-Yuzawa Station
CES 14:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good suggestion.  Do you think they should be listed in track order, or in alphabetic order, though?  Listing them in a line like that enables us to convey that extra bit of info (adjacency), which can't be easily done in the vertical format, but we may need to be careful, since the hyphens imply that the stations are next to each other (which is usually the case.  There are always exceptions, as neither district boundaries nor train lines are particularly straight).  It looks like the Japanese side dealt with this by using a comma in those situations (:ja:栗原市#交通), and they chose to go in track order, and not by aiueo order.  Neier 23:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think listing them in track order is best. Perhaps we should even put a note to that effect at the beginning fo the section: The stations are listed in track order, from the beginning to the end of the line., or something like that. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:42, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Train stations ordering

message: How does one go about getting their articles assessed?  I see the grading scale, but I don't really know how to submit them, or who does the assessing.
Thanks!
MightyAtom 10:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Some WikiProjects have an area on the front page where you can post your requests for assessment. This one apparently doesn't. It should be fine to simply place your request here, and I'm sure someone (possibly myself) will get around to it pretty quickly. LordAmeth 17:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, if you mark it on the talk page with  or , it will get automatically added to the list of unassessed articles, and will be eventually assessed. Ther are quite a few articles unassessed (and many more that aren't even marked as part of the project yet), so it will take a little bit of time to assess them. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article assessment?

message: Greetings all. I have finally been successful (along with the much appreciated aid of Nobunaga24 and Kirill Lokshin) in getting a Japanese military history task force created over at WikiProject Military history. Please take a look and join up if you're interested; or simply take a look. どうもありがとうございます。 LordAmeth 17:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese military history task force

message: Pascal.Tesson left a request on my talk page for help with determining the notability of certain Japanese hotels listed at List of famous hotels, as the list is about to be deleted.  Many hotels on the list have links that he's tried to create, but since he can't read Japanese, it is probably limited to whichever hotels have English web sites.  There may be others which are notable (I think New Otani in Tokyo probably would make the cut), so he has asked for help in seeing if they are worthy of an article or not, before the list goes away.  I am unfamiliar with anything outside of Tōhoku or Tokyo, so if you have any insight to the other areas, please let him know; or, be WP:BOLD and make the articles.  I plan on surfing the Japanese side to see what is there, but there may be a better set of criteria.  Neier 22:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've archived the Japanese section here so we'll have it to work with after the article gets deleted. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I thank everyone in advance for their help. You might also want to look at the stubs I've created yesterday for Hoshi Ryokan, Hotel New Grand, Sapporo Grand Hotel, Nikko Kanaya Hotel. The information I put there is pretty minimal as I know I only have access to info in english (or french). I think that about a dozen other Japanese hotels should satisfy the WP:HOTELS proposed guideline. Pascal.Tesson 23:44, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just created a stub for New Otani.  I didn't know whether to call it Hotel New Otani or The New Otani, so it's New Otani.--Endroit 00:08, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I updated Nihonjoe's page above with links to the Japanese articles (where they exist) for hotels on the original list, which don't already have articles here. Neier 00:40, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hotels 

message: Hi, I don't speak Japanese, so I have no idea if the edits from IP 220.254.0.14 are good or not. Some of the edits are obvious vandalism, while others are not and others are changes to Japanese words. I would strongly appreciate if someone who had a command of the language would a) drop a note to the IP b) look through some of the non-reverted edits and see if they make any sense. Thanks. JoshuaZ 18:21, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  User editing in Japanese 

message: The WikiProject Japan Barnsensu Award can be awarded to those who have made outstanding additions and/or improvements to Japan-related related articles. To award it, please the following on the editor's talk page, replacing "Type your message here." with your message:  ~~~~
This will produce the following:
···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:48, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, recipients of this award will be listed on the Barnsensu recipients page, for anyone who is curious about who has received the award. (^_^)  ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Barnsensu

message: I just wanted to let everyone know that I just finished all the articles that were in both :Category:Japan stubs and :Category:Unassessed Japan-related articles after making sure they were indeed stubs so although I'm sure it'll be good to go over again in the future it doesn't immediately have to be redone. Thygard - Talk - Contribs - Email ---- 07:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stub class 

message: I'm currently working on a script intended to create short articles on political parties on a variety of wikipedias simultaneously. However, in order for the technique to work I need help with translations to various languages. If you know any of the languages listed at User:Soman/Lang-Help , then please help by filling in the blanks. For example I need help with Japanese. Thanks, --Soman 12:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with translations 

message: While I am probably not going to be attending Wikimania this year, I do live and work in Boston, and so I am wondering if anyone from the project would be interested in meeting up for dinner or the like this coming weekend. Sorry if this isn't quite appropriate for this talk page here. LordAmeth 01:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiMania 

message: There is a straw poll on the proposed wording, for Sea of Japan's "Naming" section.  Poll ends Aug. 14, 2006, or one week from last vote if that comes sooner.  See Talk:Sea of Japan#New proposal, new vote.--Endroit 21:01, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poll at [[Talk:Sea of Japan#New proposal, new vote]]