Talk:2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings

message: Can someone find some more sources and info please/ Thanks--B.L.A.Z.E (talk) 12:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More sources, please

message: If these are related (and it is hard to believe they are not, 70 miles apart on the same day, coincidences rarely happen), I would propose the merger of Arvada missionary shooting and New Life Church shooting into a comprehensive article. Chris (talk) 04:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe so as well. I personally dont see a connection as of yet (they were around the same area, but nothing is really conclusive as to relations), but it is very possible. IronCrow (talk) 05:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: It is clearly the same shooter now. They should be merged, and the title should be changed accordingly. 146.203.126.65 (talk) 21:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Also per this Reuters source, the police do have reason to think there is a connection, but can't release the reasons why at this time. 70.105.52.165 (talk) 14:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: There's no rush, but given the move to delete this article, it would be better to have a larger better article if there is a connection, it would make the article more bulletproof. Chris (talk) 20:26, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Welp, it seems there is indeed a connection but being pretty new I would rather let someone else start the merging process. Post Article covering the event Hawk-McKain (talk) 22:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Police are now saying that the shootings were related, and both were committed by a man who "Hated Christians". We should merge the two articles into one. Ghostmonkey57 (talk) 22:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: It is now clear that the two shootings were committed by the same person.  However, I suggest waiting another 24 hours or so to perform a merge so that there is enough information to work with. Kevinp2 (talk) 00:24, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Support. I think it is now known by the police that the two events are related. – Agendum (talk) 09:01, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Support Merge.  This is clearly one shooting/crime spree.  Fortunately it ended before more were killed due to the armed civilian with the firearm.  N2e (talk) 04:53, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Merge.  The cops were already at Murray's house investigating the first incident before the second one occurred. How about Arvada missionary and New Life Church shootings. Yaf (talk) 21:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with merging the articles. This was actually one event, perpetrated by the same individual. Ghostmonkey57 (talk) 22:54, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I created these two articles, and because the two shootings seemed to be committed by the same gunman, should be merged.--B.L.A.Z.E (talk) 23:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's with Americans' inability to use vowel syntax correctly? "An" precedes a word beginning with a vowel, not "a". 87.102.21.160 (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 02:35, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

text: But "A" is a vowel... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Vowel_letters Anyways, I think it was merged early, yet, since Wikipedia goes by consensus... Anyways, they are related according to police now... Regardless, the article still needs work. IronCrow (talk) 05:57, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: merge

message: It's been clearly established from numerous Mainstream Sources and Law Enforcement Officials that Murray had a vendetta against Christians, and against Y-WAM in particular. He didn't just have a "run in" with Y-WAM he was expelled from the program 3 years ago and had been sending hate mail to them. No attempts to white wash the article should be tolerated. Murray clearly had a vendetta that he was trying to solve with violence. Ghostmonkey57 (talk) 23:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for the mixup, I hadn't read your edit very carefully and for some reason thought it said something else when I reverted... I agree that your source is much more informative atm. 70.105.52.165 (talk) 23:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No problem. I wasn't aiming this portion at you, but rather at CNN. CNN's coverage isn't nearly as detailed as the coverage from the Rocky Mountain News. I get the impression that CNN is whitewashing a bit. Ghostmonkey57 (talk) 23:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: CNN "RUN IN" COMMENT

message: I find it highly unlikely that this person had an automatic (that is, fully automatic) or machine pistol.  I suggest that the word automatic, under Weapon, be changed to autoloading or semi-automatic, or dropped completely, OR replaced with a specific make and model of handgun when that information is available.  Automatic is technically correct, but is not conventionally used to describe autoloading pistols as it carries more of a connotation associated with machine guns.
I also heard the host on CNN continually refer to the Colorado Springs shooter as wearing an "automatic assault rifle", which is also suspect and underscores the same concerns for accuracy.  The wiki article for that attack simply says "rifle", as that is all that can reasonably be assumed at this point.74.7.55.66 (talk) 15:26, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The weapon in question that CNN was referring to was an AK-47, which was one of the shooter's firearms.  I have not seen reliable information as to the exact make and as to whether it was semi- or fully-automatic, but it certainly qualifies as an "assault rifle" whether you like the term or not, Kalashnikovs are the representative of that class. NTK (talk) 05:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Unfortunately, in her book, God, the Gunman & Me (), Jeanne Assam perpetuates typical distortions by claiming that the shooter used a "high-powered rifle"--something an AK-47 most definitely is not. --71.203.125.108 (talk) 17:06, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Automatic" handgun 

message: If we're going to call this a "hate crime", we need sources to substantiate that officials have likewise called the shootings as such.  Otherwise, the term "hate crime" implies a particular POV in opposition not only to the shootings themselves, but to those who have complaints (whether legitimate or not, doesn't matter) against the affected churches, denominations, or other religious organizations. -- JeffBillman (talk) 17:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference for the statement in question is broken. I've replaced it with a different url to what I am pretty sure is the very same Associated Press article. That reference uses the phrase "hate mail" but not the phrase "hate crime" and does not speculate about the motive. We should stick to what the source says, so I am not only removing the phrase "hate crime" but removing any speculation as to the motive. In the absence of a reliable source, speculating about the motive would be WP:Original research. Sbowers3 (talk) 17:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hate crime 

message: This article may tend toward a POV; to wit, one that sees this tragic event as symptomatic of a larger persecution against American Christians.  Thus, I'm including the POV-check template at the top of this article.  Let's try to get this article to a more neutral point of view.  Thank you. -- JeffBillman (talk) 21:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV check 

message: While I do not have the source on hand at the moment, there was a newspaper article I read which contacted the "volunteer security guard" and he asserted that he was nothing more than a citizen with a concealed carry permit.  The paper went on to describe the inaccuracy and bias of media reports on any event which might put gun ownership in a positive light.  Has anyone here heard anything else about this which would corroborate it?  I can't find the site for the damn paper.  Ours18 (talk) 07:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I had thought that the article said that but now I'll have to go back and reread it. My recollection is that the "security guard" was a woman, not a man, and that she was a parishioner who after hearing or reading some other news (a shooting elsewhere?) had volunteered to stay through both services instead of the one that she usually attended. And yes, she was an ordinary citizen with concealed carry; her occupation was not security guard. I had thought that most of the article's references presented this information. Sbowers3 (talk) 11:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  That "volunteer security guard" 

message: *  |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/5wnYexdmM |archivedate=2011-02-26
* |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/5wnZItBKt |archivedate=2011-02-26
Church denies the allegations. / edg ☺ ☭ 01:28, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Same-said guard allegedly ostracized for subsequently coming out as gay

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CHURCH_SHOOTINGS?SITE=TXBEA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-12-09-23-11-41
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-26 02:42:29, 404 Not Found
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-27 15:00:39, 404 Not Found
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-06-15 12:00:22, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 12:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.570news.com/news/international/article.jsp?content=w1210102A
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-26 02:42:43, 404 Not Found
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-27 15:00:40, 404 Not Found
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-06-15 12:00:33, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 12:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/ap_on_re_us/church_shootings
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-26 02:42:43, 404 Not Found
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-27 15:00:43, 404 Not Found
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-06-15 12:00:44, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 12:01, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 3 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5japE3NYsSAjhnemSFfykd2W3JawwD8TG6K4O0
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-26 02:42:42, 410 Gone
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-27 15:00:42, 410 Gone
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-06-15 12:00:53, 410 Gone
--JeffGBot (talk) 12:01, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 4 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.365gay.com/Newscon07/12/121307killer.htm
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-26 02:42:43, 404 Not Found
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-05-27 15:00:41, 404 Not Found
** In 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings on 2011-06-15 12:01:06, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 12:01, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 5 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified