Talk:John Kerry/Archive 4

message: Someone has inserted a paragraph toward the end of the entry on the subject of Terrorism that doesn't seem to have any context to it. I'm not opposed to the item being there as long as it's true, but at the moment it doesn't seem to tie in with anything else in the article. Any idea on how this shoudl be handled? Damion
That paragraph was obviously partisan and is about as important to Kerry as it would be to include a paragraph "Bush and trouble with names" stating that George W. Bush once called the Spanish Prime Minister Aznar "Anzar". Get-back-world-respect 00:32, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, such a variety of persons make that mistake (Anzar or Aznar) that even I would forgive Shrubya that one. Or maybe that's your point.142.177.169.255
Have you looked up how many of your google results reported about Bush's error? By the way, did you know Bush also is said to have asked Fernando Cardoso, president of Brazil, the country with the biggest population of blacks outside Africa, "You have blacks, too?" Get-back-world-respect 23:40, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: Not blaming you personally on this one, GBWR, but you might be glad you didn't put that in the Bush article. Snopes calls this "undetermined" (as to validity) but the text of their article makes makes it seem extremely unlikely, unless, of course, you are predisposed to believe it.
I would not add something like this to the Bush article because I think that man has comitted such serious crimes that wasting space on his ignorance of blacks in Brazil would shed too much of a positive light on him. I know that many Americans do not want to believe it, but the only counter argument I have heard is that the quote was only reported from one source. A friend of Cardoso. But I ask you, do you think Cardoso would confirm it officially in order to enrage America? Do you think any government would confirm that yes, "Our president is an idiot"? Get-back-world-respect 13:36, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: Is it really necessary to clutter Talk:John Kerry with "Bush is stupid" discussion? --24.0.226.177 09:28, 2 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting that this section of the discussion that had started about an attempt to smuggle propaganda into the article has three unsigned parts. Since my argumentation was tried to be refuted by partisans twice I replied, but I agree that the discussion went off-topic. Get-back-world-respect 21:32, 2 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Terrorism

message: He "decided" to replace Tsongas? Come on, we can do better than that. Some mention of the democratic process would be in order, like:
*campaign for the senate seat
*date of victory
*date he took office.
Or was he simply appointed by the governor, after Paul Tsongas died? --Uncle Ed 19:26, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Senate Career

message: I've just made some edits I'd like to explain. I removed the "conspiratorial" sounding phrases "it is a little know [sic] fact that" and "a so-called 'injury' ". Hibbard's claims have been published and discussed in the mainstream press, and Kerry did, in fact, receive an injury.
Secondly, I've removed the sentence
"Whether Kerry did this in order to cheat on his military record, or simply because he was young and ignorant of the guidelines for genuinely earning a Purple Heart award, remains unclear."
because I believe it presents a false choice by assuming Hibbard's claims are true to begin with. Besides, the Purple Heart article states,
"The Purple Heart is awarded... to any member of an Armed Force who, while serving with the United States Armed Services after April 5, 1917, has been wounded or killed... [in] any action against an enemy of the United States..."
It seems to me that Kerry's injury satisfies that criterion.
Finally, I've added two points about Hibbard from (the Pensacola NewsJournal article): (1) that he gave Kerry a positive performance evaluation back at the time and (2) that he's a member of a larger group of veterans critical of Kerry's record during and after the war. - 216.61.33.185 21:33, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hibbard's Criticism 

message: I am against including portraits of other people in an article about a person. If he is so important he should get his own article. Get-back-world-respect 23:11, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't bother me, but at the same time it is not essential to the article either. So no arguments from me if you want to remove it. Bkonrad | Talk 23:54, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pershing photo 

message: I do not like the splitting of "family background" in the beginning and then "family" in the ending part. That should be together at the top. Get-back-world-respect 23:30, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Family twice?

message: This page is at 161K. I'm going to archive some of the older discussions. Please don't be alarmed. I plan to include pointers to some of the more contentious discussions, so that (hopefully) we don't have to rehash things if they come up again. older ≠ wiser 15:34, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not think it would be wise to put an active discussion into an archive. Newer users might get puzzled. But moving the family disussion is ok with me, except for the "twice" issue, which still has not been dealt with. Get-back-world-respect 20:23, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archiving 

message: I don't think it's wise to hide grandfather's suicide like Get-Back-World-Respect proposes, as possibly Kerry's sometime depression could be genetic and inherited. That is not a NPOV criticism of Kerry's character, simply an observation (scary, a little bit) of his erratic behavior. Might he one day pull troops out of Iraq like the Spanish, in 3 days? Might he join a war, then oppose it? Might he marry, divorce, annul, and marry again? Might he have his finger on the button when N. Korea's dictator goes crazy himself? Kerry can't be blamed for his inherited personality, but can voters be blamed for selecting someone a little warmer, rooted in friends and family, and faith? Regs, Anon1453.
:If the suicide were further back in Kerry's family history, I might omit it (even though it is at least as relevant as a lot of the more distant family past posted, such as a prominent Rabbi 400 years ago). Moreover, even if there is no genetic disposition issue, knowledge of the suicide of a close relative can be a significant influence in anyone's life, as is any other dramatic life event, such as Bush's loss of a young sister to Leukemia or Al Gore's son almost losing his life in a pedestrian accident, an event which Gore found life-transforming. Cecropia 16:11, 1 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Your argumentation just shows what an evil agenda you have. Yes, because his grandfather committed suicide he will blow the world up. Just as because George H. W. Bush already failed in Iraq and let Hussein murder the Shiites who had previously been encouraged to mutinize now George W. Bush had to fail as well, leaving Afghanistan in anarchy, Iraq close to a civil war and Guantanamo full of people caged in like animals without any rights. It is all genetic... No wonder you did not dare to write that nonsense after logging in. Get-back-world-respect 16:17, 1 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Grandfather's suicide and Kerry's depression

message: In my opinion, Senator Kerry has no link with the small town of Saint Brieuc, but with the very small "Saint Briac", a part of the seaside resort of Dinard. Dinard was founded 150 yrs ago and widely appreciated by english wealthy subjects. Dinard Golf course, one of the oldest in France, is at Saint Briac. The Romanov family (of the former Tsars of Russia) also owns an estate there. In fact, being related to Saint Briac is in some way more cosmopolitan/english than french !!! But of course when Dinard was founded, every member of the high society, in Russia, England and maybe Boston was supposed to learn french.
P.H. B. (Rennes - France)
:Yes, you are probably correct. Thanks for the information. The Saint Brieuc and Brice Lalonde references were mostly added by an anon whose contributions typically have many errors, in fact and POV bias, as well as grammar and spelling. older≠wiser 23:07, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saint Brieuc 

message: I have made dozens of edits over the past few days. If you have questions about any of them, I am happy to defend them. Kingturtle 04:09, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  my edits 

message: This is a semantic point. Kerry's profession is politician; his current job is United States Senator. See same at George W. Bush. It's like the issue of a doctor; Dr. Jones' job may be Head of Pediatrics at City Hospital, but his profession is still physician.
: He was a lawyer. Politician is not a profession since one can only be politician as long as one is elected into a certain position. What interests people is what the person would be if he did not dedicate himself to politics. Get-back-world-respect 18:48, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Was a lawyer.  How much time has he been a senator, or running for office?  His profession is politician.  He happens to have recognized legal skills, but is he handling cases?  Lawyer, in this case, is like a NASCAR mechanic saying he's a certified auto mechanic -- it's a skill but repairing ordinary cars is not the job. ...mental image of legal clients meeting in White House while preparing for court... (SEWilco 08:05, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: For sure he does not practice it any longer. However, it is his learned profession. Everyone knows he is a politician and it is already mentioned that he is senator up to now. What people want to know if this category exists for politicians is what they would do if they were not into politics. Get-back-world-respect 10:56, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at the other Presidents.  Jimmy Carter: peanut farmer, US Naval Officer.  OK.  Bill Clinton: politician, lawyer.  Use that for Kerry.  I think we can agree that Clinton doesn't seem to be using his law degree professionally, and in that respect sets a precedent for a similar entry for Kerry. SEWilco 09:03, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: How about: "Self Employed, Type of Business: Writer".  October 16 1970, Annual Qualifications Questionnaire, Inactive Duty Reserve Officer http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jkerry/qlfyquest.pdf SEWilco 17:00, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kerry's profession 

message: The marriage bit says, next to his first wife, divorced. Technically, his first marraige was annulled, not divorced. Is it that way just because someone didn't know the details, or by conscious choice? -- Jake 18:14, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It says divorced because they were divorced (25 July 1988). The marriage was annulled, apparently in 1997 after the divorce (that's the way it happens most of the time: in fact some tribunals will not hear a case for annullment until after the divorce) but also after his second marriage (1995). That last part is a bit unusual, as the annullment is usually obtained prior to a second wedding. - Nunh-huh 22:15, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Divorced"