Talk:Beer/Archive 2

message: I think this section can safely be removed entirely, since it appears to be equivalent with its master article, Beer style. Does anyone oppose the removal of this section, leaving a BRIEF description and a link to Beer style?Shaggorama 11:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Varieties of beer 

message: What about the consumption of beer making one obese? Is this true, or a fairy tale? Maybe someone should write a small paragraph about it. --Michiel Sikma 23:49, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See the article on beer belly, though it appears to be disputed. I agree that more should be written on this important topic. Nikola 07:21, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fat 

message: Where is the taste? I am surprised to note that in the whole beer project there isn't a single mention of the art of beer tasting, or any guide on how to taste beer, leave alone how to organise a beer tasting. I am not refering to an experts guide but information that anyone can use.
I feel that information on how to taste beer is worth its very own wiki document. I am passionate about this topic as I am associated with a site that focuses on it, namely http://www.tastebeer.com.au. Example articles: How to taste beer and Discover the truth about beer taste.
I am not asking to use tastebeer.com.au as a reference but I feel that a beer tasting document (or at least a section) should exist that provides visitors with information about beer tasting. I am looking for your input - I've never started a wiki document myself but if there're no takers on this subject I'll shall give it a try myself.
Wyxel 07:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wyxel, the best way to go about getting other people interested is to start working on the article yourself. It may seem like it's not the "ideal" route, but that generally is the most likely way of getting your desired article moving or attracting other contributors to it. As they say around here, Be bold. BTW, it's an interesting idea, and I'd be interested in seeing where you head with such an article. --Daniel11 07:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Daniel that a page on beer tasting would be interesting. It would link with Rating beer and with the BJCP. SilkTork 23:19, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to taste beer 

message: This list is serves little purpose - the top link Beer and nationality goes to a similar list. If people wanted to gain specific details on beer within a country they could follow that link. And at least 12 of the countries listed are blind links. I suggest this section is cut. SilkTork 23:30, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beer around the world 

message: The article is getting much too long and there are way too many sections. I have moved the history section to a separate article. A short text should be entered here (under History) and 2 pictures have been removed that could be put back. Piet 15:37, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: I've moved Rating Beer to this page. There are still too many sections. Piet 15:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rate beer - too many sections 

message: I have requested a peer review - see top. Piet 13:20, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer review 

message: Forgive me if I missed it, but does this article discuss alcohol content anywhere.  I've heard that 18% is the highest that can be achieved without distillation.  Any thoughts?--Hraefen 05:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alcohol content

message: As well as any alcoholic drink for that matter?
(--snip diatribe about family breakups, drunk driving accidents, et al.--)
Besides, when more and more better things to do get invented (i.e. Holodecks and especially Syntheholic beverages), why should we still need actual beer and beveragic alcohol? --Shultz III 02:48, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What would it take for the World to run out of beer? 

message: Could we shorten the intro and move some of the information provided there into the rest of the article so that beer better conforms to FA status? Leppy 17:52, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just thinking the exact same thing. --Daniel11 18:27, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro/FA cleanup 

message: What's up with the introduction? It seems all wrong to me... 65.101.172.161 22:01, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems to have been vandalised;  I've restored it again to an older copy. dewet|✉ 22:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

message: Might I suggest that Hogarth's eigtheenth-century engraving Beer Lane  should be included in the article if someone can show that it fits the copyright requirements etc. I think it is a very iconic image and one which immediately came to mind. Furthermore there is the precedent of the article on Gin which makes use of Hogarth's Gin Alley. SCRA5071 12:53, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you mean Beer Street. We've already got the image, so go ahead and include it. --FOo 20:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hogarth's Beer Lane 

message: someone has seen themselves important enough to remove this section.  presumably they do not have a disease that one in a hundred of us have which means we cannot drink beer that is not gluten free.  Thanks for that.  How socially isolating do you think it is to be unable to eat out, unable to go on holiday, unable to go for a beer.  Shall we just crawl into a hole and die?  Or would you like to replace an important part of the article you have removed?
:The above comment was left by User:Wikwobble. The removed section is a copy of a slightly earlier version of this article: Gluten free beer. In addition to that section I also removed links to Wikwobble's website - a link to which can be found on the Gluten free beer article. The Gluten free beer article is an assett to the site and people with an interest in the subject are requested to assist in its development. SilkTork 18:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uhh...isn't the "technical" definition of beer a fermented beverage made from grain? The Rheinheitsgebot says it has to be barley, but that's only one definition. Beer can be made wheat and rye too, you know. Some notes about gluten and beer seem appropriate to me, especially as gluten free beer is becoming more prevalent. —Wrathchild (talk) 13:44, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: gluten free beer

message: Dear all, I have today done a little bit of reorganising.  I just felt that the article, while full of good information, was a bit of a hotch-potch.  Looking at my edits, I'm still not happy but not sure where to go.  Can other wikipedians help with the Styles of Beer section, and also with how to further tidy up the rest of the article. Cheers Duncshine 16:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reorganisation was very good. A certain shape has now appeared, and the article is taking form. There's still plenty of work to be done, but at least at this point it's becoming clear what sections we need in the article, and what material needs to be included, and which belongs elsewhere. We may even be ready to create a To Do list! SilkTork 19:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganising 

message: This page said that beer bellies are considered to be due to over eating rather than the consumption of beer.  It was my understanding that most scientists beleive Beer Bellies are due to alcohol's action in cellular metabolism.  I understood that it inhibited the immediate use of fats in metabolism, and caused them to be stored instead.  I also understood that heavy drinking of any alcoholic beverage on a regular basis could cause a beer belly.  Please correct me if i am wrong.
:AFAIK, you're not wrong.  Beer is straight sugar and carbs.  Do the math. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.236.216.252 (talk • contribs) 
::Perhaps you should check your sources, ingredients before brewing are primarily sugar - which is converted into alcohol and CO2.  I don't know the nutritional ramifications of this, but your comment is unjustified.  Sugar is a carbohydrate by nature so saying that beer is "straight sugar and carbs" is redundant.  Just my 2cents.  Celardore 21:18, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beer Belly 

message: There is a section on gluten free beer, above.  Perhaps the last editor did not read it?  Please do so now.  If you cannot rationalise the edits (ie, answer the three points above), why should I not reverse them?  Before I do, you now have the opportunity to deal with the issues.  Why for example, would you want one beer review site but not another?  What makes one valid and one invalid?  Are you connected in any way with one of them?  Do you lack perspective?  You will note that my above comments accompanied my additions to the page.  It seems only polite to include comments here when you brush them aside.  Or is that only me?  User:wikwobble
Right, lets take this one step at a time.  Please respond to this attempt to communicate.  I shall insert the link to glutenfreebeerfestival.com as a special interest site.  It keeps getting deleted.  It IS a special interest for beer, is it not?  If not, it does review beers, so it can go in "beer review sites", can't it?  Before you delete it, please consider which place it should go - one or the other, eh?  Or give me some rationale for leaving the other links in?   User:wikwobble
:The current beer review sites listed are large, well established sites which have a wide variety of beers, including gluten free beers. They are notable sites, that is they are referenced by the world's media. They have significant web traffic as detailed by Alexa.com. There are many, many other beer review sites which we do not include as Wiki is not a web directory. There is a link to the special interest glutenfreebeerfestival.com website on the gluten free beer article. That is the appropriate place for it. Someone reading the general beer article would be looking for general beer links. Someone reading the gluten free beer article would be looking for a gluten free beer link. Gluten free beer is an important subject, and the article is developing very well. But it is not enough a part of the general beer scene to have a link on this page. We have to have limits as to what links are allowed on this page otherwise we would be overrun. The most appropriate place for the weblink is on the gluten free beer article - and a link is already there. SilkTork 13:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: recent edits

message: Can someone who knows what this is trying to say please clear it up?
As almost any substance containing carbohydrates, namely sugar or starch, it can naturally undergo fermentation, it is likely that beer-like beverages were independently invented among various cultures throughout the world.
Kisch 02:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone added an "it" which threw the sentence. I've removed it. SilkTork 13:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: garbled sentence

message: The Clany Brothers did a song called Beer, Beer, Beer and it claims that a guy named Charlie Marx invented beer.  Of course, this is not true but I want to know more about this Charlie Marx guy.
:Please see Charlie Mopps. Another version of the lyrics is at  —Wrathchild (talk) 19:40, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Charlie Marx is no doubt a nick name for Karl Marx, the guy who thought up communism. "Charles" in English is a cognate of "Karl" in German.  It's a political joke, or something like a joke. philosofool 15:09, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charlie Marx 

message: Please see Beer bread. This article is currently in need of more internal links. What are your thoughts for adding this into the main entry in an appropriate section?--Saintlink 23:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beer Bread? 

message: A discussion document has been opened up. Wikipedia:WikiProject Beer/Notability Criteria. Please put in your views either on the main page or on the attached talk page. If we want to list every brewery on the planet then I feel we should get some valid criteria behind us. SilkTork 16:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability criteria discusion document 

message: Shouldn't "skunked" beer be in the article?  Here's a good reference: "Chemists Determine Cause of "Skunky" Beer," Scientific American, 22 October 2001:
:These days, beer is the beverage of choice at chemist Malcolm Forbes’s laboratory meetings at the University of North Carolina. That’s because their latest project aims to determine why beer exposed to light tastes bad. The results of their research, an explanation for this so-called light-struck flavor, will appear in the November 5th issue of Chemistry—A European Journal.
:The phenomenon of beer turning skunky after exposure to light has been reported in the literature for more than 100 years, Forbes notes, but only now have scientists pinpointed the underlying mechanism. Using a type of spectroscopy that exploits electron spin, the researchers compiled a computer simulation of the reaction by which light-sensitive molecules in hops degrade into unpleasant-smelling products. The mechanism is intriguing, Forbes says, because one part of the molecule absorbs light energy that then migrates through the molecule and causes a free radical to form at a different location. "The final product of the reaction turns out to be what we call 'skunky thiol,' an analogue of a compound found in skunk glands that produces a very bad taste and smell," Forbes says. The flavor threshold of the thiol is so low, the authors write, that concentrations of a few parts-per-trillion can make beer unpalatable.
:Breweries typically avoid the degradation of their product by packaging it in brown or green bottles to protect it from light. "Understanding mechanisms behind changes in beer tastes is important because the world beer industry is hoping to save money by storing, shipping and selling beer in less-expensive clear glass," Forbes explains. Currently beer manufacturers that package their product in clear bottles can use modified hops that produce different free radicals and result in less of the foul chemicals. But one company minimizes the impact of the skunky thiols through more ingenious means. "Corona is marketed extremely cleverly," Forbes says of that beer, which uses regular hops but has been sold in clear bottles all along. The company suggests that drinkers add a slice of lime to enhance the taste of the beer, not to mention its odor.
So maybe someone should add this.  --SafeLibraries 02:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Skunked Beer 

message: I've put the GA & FA type tags into a folder reached at the top of the talk page. However, I'm not sure if this is correct procedure. Some of the links didn't work, so I had to manually insert the old content. I'm wondering if I've done the right thing. SilkTork 18:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tags 

message: The opening paragraph is a bit of a mess.  It should be a brief intro to what beer is, not a discussion of whether or not American IPA and English IPA should be considered different styles.  That kind of thing can be included in a section on beer styles later in the article.  It's got no place in the intro. Murphykieran 20:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening paragraphs... 

message: Wouldn't wine pwn beer by a few thousand years? The ancient romans  and Egyptians   drinked wine. I think that should be changed, and added to the wine article. dposse 20:48, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, i guess it's already there. I'll just removed the "popular" and reword it. dposse 20:57, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "the world's oldest and most popular" 

message: This section seems a bit heavy. How about replacing some of it with a link to the Open Directory Project category? (Specifically, )
—Wrathchild (talk) 13:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is still bloated. One of the rules of thumb that WP:EL uses is that if you have so many links you need to categorize them, you have too many links. —Wrathchild (talk) 16:13, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: I have removed the patent nonsense "While some drinkers in Britain may prefer their ale to be served in pewter tankards..."
We live in the 21st century. Even if you brought your own pewter tankard, the pub would refuse to pour beer into it for fear of prosecution under health and safety legislation (pewter is an alloy of lead and tin, both highly toxic metals).
Who makes up these ridiculous claims?
:I agree its a daft statement that needed removing. But actually, the chain of Davy's Wine Bars in London all serve real ale (rebadged Courage Directors, I believe) from pewter tankards. --SandyDancer 18:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pewter tankards 

message: An anonymous editor added the following text in a new section. Please add whatever should be kept to the appropriate section under "serving". — goethean ॐ 19:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cask- and bottle-conditoned beers are unfiltered and unpasteurised, and the beer contuinues to mature after it leaves the brewery. This provides a much more varied taste, even from barrel to barrel and bottle to bottle. However, the lack of standardisation, shorter shelf life, and the extra care required by the cellarperson was a key factor in the drive by big breweries to look for a cheaper option - the "keg" beers sterilised in the brewery and artificially-livened by extra carbon dioxide and chilling.  Led by such organisations as the UK's Campaign for Real Ale, many consumers reacted to the change, and caused a revival in "live" beer production, particularly by smaller breweries. In the US and UK it is now not difficult to find cask-conditioned or bottle-conditoned beers, and in France, Belgium and Holland, there was perhaps never any danger of losing them.  In the US, ther term "cask" beer is used - but it is the conditioning not the container that determines the quality of the beer; for instance, in the UK, keg beers and cask-conditioned beers will arrive at the pub in identical aluminium kegs.
This information is already on the main Cask Ale page - though without the mistakes. A cask is not identical to a keg. SilkTork 21:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: new text

message: While the Sumerians have 6000 year old evidence of beer brewing I've read that evidence for wine brewing was found at the neolithic Woodhenge site in England. Probably the productin of mead predates all agriculture whether of grain nor grapes.Trilobitealive 02:52, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what i said. See my comments on Talk:Beer#.22the_world.27s_oldest_and_most_popular.22. I still doubt that beer is either the "oldest" or "most popular". dposse 16:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: world's oldest?

message: I would like to edit the section on strength to read as follows.  Please offer suggestions and objections here. (This is a pretty significant overhaul of the strength section, so I don't want to do it without running it by people first.) I would also like to change the section title to "Alcoholic Strength", since "strength" is a bit coloquial.  Other title suggestions are welcome.
:The content of alcohol in beer is less than that of wine or distilled spirits.  Beer ranges from less than 3% alcohol by volume (ABV) to over 12% ABV.  Particular styles of beer have a range of alcoholic strength that is common for them; pale lagers that most consumers are familiar with fall in the range of 4-6%.  Some exceptional beers have reached over 20% ABV, however, this is not typical of any style of beer.  
:The alcohol in beer comes from the fermentation of sugars that are produced during mashing.  The quantity of sugar in the wort and the variety of yeast used to ferment the wort determine the amount of alcohol in the final beer. Most of the sugar is derived from the process of mashing, however, sugar is sometimes added directly to the wort. Other ingredients in beer have no effect on the quantity of alcohol in the beer.
I like this better than the previous section because it focuses on general facts rather than minutia that look like a Guiness Book of Records entry. Also, it reads like a section rather than a list a fact about ABV.
philosofool 04:36, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggested Revision of the "Strength" Section

message: This article pays far too little attention the economics of beer.  What are market shares like for different beers?  How much of the world's beer is craft beer, how much not?  What are the economics facts of beer like in the Europe and in the U.S.? Do Belgians drink more "belgian beer" or Stella?    This article is mostly very good on the subject of beer, but it is clearly written by enthusiasts who are more interested in good beer than beer.72.211.157.32 23:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wholly Inadequate Discussion of Economics

message: The article is in British English. For consistency the whole article should be in British English. The guideline is here: . Mistakes will happen. However, corrections back into British English should not be reverted. SilkTork 18:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Variety of English 

message: I think the 1st two images, Dutch_beers.jpg  & Cask_Ales.jpg are not of higher quality as an article of this nature should contain.  
1) Images only shows Dutch beers, it should be collection of world's beers, at least beers from a variety of major/traditional beer producing regions.  2) the background is not that atheistically pleasing.  3) Is not set in a table or in a bar.  
The second images, just seems to be happy snap of one the authors who happens to be drinking beer.  Sure the author might have done good work in contributing towards the article, but that pic should not be in there.  
The pic should be replaced w/ pic of beer (glass & bottle etc) or show people drinking beer at a pub/bar (not the bar's basement) etc.
--202.161.22.188 12:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images