Talk:Oregon State Capitol

message: $12.5 million for the entire project: "A Capitol "Wings" project, completed in 1977, at a cost of $12.5 million, added further space for legislative offices, hearing rooms, support services, a first floor galleria, and underground parking." (from the leg website) Katr67 18:34, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wings (not the band)

message: *Miller Consulting Engineers did the earthquake repair--site has image of scaffolding inside rotunda while murals were removed (!) and replaced. Either use as ref and/or get permission to use image? Katr67 22:40, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement notes and refs

message: Our planet's Moon is a proper noun--what is the reason for making it lowercase? Katr67 21:19, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The MOS says that "Sun, earth, and moon are proper nouns in an astronomical context, but not elsewhere." It could be argued that this is an astronomical context. I have reverted to Moon. Finetooth 16:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sometimes it's simpler to check a word's usage in context. In the Moon article, it says "Unlike the moons of other planets, the moon of the Earth has no proper English name other than "the Moon" (capitalized)." Note moon is lower case in the generic usage. Katr67 17:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Moon

message: Architectural styles are also capitalized. Katr67 23:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't found a style guide that agrees with you on this. The MOS doesn't seem to say one way or the other. However, the MOS lists several external style guides that might be consulted. I've checked two of them, The Chicago Manual of Style and the Guardian on-line guide at . The Chicago Manual says that names of cultural movements are usually lower-cased and gives "baroque," "cubism," "op art," and "theater of the absurd," among others, as examples. The Guardian says, "lc: art deco, art nouveau, cubism, dadaism, expressionism, gothic, impressionism, pop art, surrealism etc but Bauhaus, Modern (in the sense of Modern British, to distinguish it from "modern art"), pre-Raphaelite, Romantic (to differentiate between a romantic painting and a Romantic painting)." The two manuals don't agree about everything, by the way. Chicago says "Gothic," but the Guardian says "gothic." (Such is life.) Still, they do seem to agree about art deco. Finetooth 17:16, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When I edit Wikipedia, I don't worry about outside style guides so much unless I can't find the answer here. Again, it's easier to go direct--within Wikipedia, Art Deco and other styles are capitalized. If those article titles need to be changed, again, that needs to be taken up with the editors of those articles. In any case, I  (and I believe the GA/FA standards) dislike redirects and the link should be piped if you insist on having it lowercase. BTW, I'm not trying to belittle your contributions--you're obviously a pro and you've done a great job cleaning up and tightening the syntax of this article (I tend to have more of a live and let live policy about that), but it seems to me you need to bend a little and make sure your edits are following in-house style (which, in the nature of the wiki, are sometimes a little nebulous), especially when it comes to wikilinks, which are one of the most important parts of Wikipedia. Katr67 17:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the redirect tip and the syntax compliment. It's true that I have not thought about redirects until this very moment, though I have used pipes without realizing they were redirects. I need to read about redirects to see what's going on with them and how they might affect Wikipedia style. Can you aim me in the direction of a document that clearly explains the redirects? Meanwhile, I'll change Art Deco back to caps. I have two other things to bring up; one is small, and the other is slightly bigger. The names "Justus F. Krumbein and Gilbert" appear in the "Second capitol" section and look suspicious to me, but I don't have the source material to check. Is Gilbert missing his last name, perhaps? The slightly bigger concern is that the references that are web citations don't include the author (if known), the publisher (if known), or the access date. Wouldn't it be useful to include these details? Finetooth 19:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Me again, four hours later. I get it. I really didn't know what you meant by a problem with redirects, but now I see how it works. As you said, a pipe can solve the problem. Unwanted redirects are visible on the preview. I had not noticed that before, and no one else had mentioned these redirects to me. I went back to the list of flora and found one remaining unwanted redirect, for blue spruce, and fixed it with a Blue Spruce to blue spruce pipe. I'll have to go back to some other pages I've worked on to see if I've left any more of these redirects lying around. Thank you, Katr67, for bringing this to my attention. Finetooth 03:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for all your hard work and for taking the trouble to understand what I was on about regarding the redirs. You'll have to ask Aboutmovies about "Justus F. Krumbein and Gilbert"; that's from his research (it might be right by 1893 standards though). And yeah, some of the refs are still a little sloppy, but I expect many of the web sources don't have authors. I'll see about checking them and adding dates and publishers. Katr67 18:26, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see my input was needed. The architect I believe is missing the first name, but none was given. If I recall, the firm was Krumbein & Gilbert and I found the first name for Justus elsewhere. As to the refs, it looks like that is in progress. Aboutmovies 03:05, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Art Deco]]

message: This is a very thorough piece of work which meets the GA criteria.  Well done! Johnfos 09:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article looks good, but one minor issue is that several of the inline citations contain only a URL link, and not full citation info (author, title, publication, date of publication, date URL was retrieved, etc). It is preferable that full citation information be included, so that if the link becomes a 404 not found, it is not rendered useless. Dr. Cash 01:59, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, we're working on it. Thanks for taking a look. Do you see any glaring FA obstacles, if you feel like giving an off-the-cuff impression? Katr67 02:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article

message: I can't stay away even with a self-reinforcing wikibreak. So I see an instance of "capitol" was changed to "Capitol" but I believe a previous copyedit made all stand-alone references to capitol lowercase. Although I normally despise the use of capitalization to show Great Metaphorical Significance, I think it might be OK in this instance? (Only when referring specifically to the current capitol). I won't flip out (see above) if we go with lowercase, but I will if it's not consistent. Thoughts? Katr67 20:39, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A new round of copyediting quibbles

message: Per my comments in May when the gallery was removed before, I prefer no photo gallery. I just don't think they look good. Aboutmovies 22:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: AM, sorry -- I didn't recall that there was previously a gallery, sorry to take the article backward. I'll rearrange the photos. My main interest was getting a couple more photos on the page -- it seemed mildly sparse, and the photos of the legislative chambers seem significant. Any problem with finding a home for them, in a non-gallery layout? -Pete 23:32, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes and no. One or two of those are I'm sure copyvio. The ones from the Oregon Blue Book I doubt were relaseable by an editor, mainly the Senate Chamber pic. And a copyvio picture like that is quick fail at GA, and probably at FA too. Were there any others you wanted to work in? Aboutmovies 23:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Side note, the only "major" work I think left is to standardize the refs, at least I can see since the copy editor review. Aboutmovies 00:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

text: *Gallery now deleted as most file names have changed with move to commons, see  instead. Aboutmovies (talk) 19:53, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  The copyvio point is a good one, I hadn't noticed that. Your pics are good, it would be nice someday to get photos with crisper edges so the many names are easier to read, and the image is clearer -- but that will have to wait I suppose! Some of the others above could be included, but I don't think any of them are needed. Thanks for replacing the BB images. Good work. -Pete 01:19, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture gallery

message: Is the Gilbert part of "Justus F. Krumbein and Gilbert, architects," OK, or is Gilbert missing something? Finetooth 01:02, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gilbert

message: User:Wikilost recently added the following text to the article, which AboutMovies and I reverted:
I see a couple different problems with this text. First, if any of it is to be included, the bare facts must be cited: in other words, a reliable source stating that the seal is on the floor, or perhaps a photo of the floor of the capitol. Second, the interpretation looks to me like original research; it's interesting, but not worthy of an encyclopedia article. Maybe if there's a scholarly article making that claim, it might be worth noting that the interpretation has been made; but it can't be presented as fact or speculation. -Pete (talk) 00:26, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've also reverted it. I think it qualifies as  at the least. There is no "need" to cite a source stating that the seal is on the floor as this is not contentious, per WP:CITE and WP:V ("Material challenged or likely to be challenged, and all quotations, must be attributed to a reliable, published source." - This statement is a simple matter of fact, a common practice, and easy for anyone to verify personally; why would it be reasonably challenged?). The interpretation absolutely needs to be cited, though. That's the issue with this edit. VigilancePrime (talk) 00:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, on second thought you're right. Not so essential to cite the uncontroversial fact. -Pete (talk) 00:58, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Intriguing. Thanks for pointing that out! -Pete (talk) 09:09, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, this article is not the place for this "trivia/info" anyway, it would belong on the Seal of Oregon article if it were true/backed up by RS. Aboutmovies (talk) 23:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm a resident of Oregon and had the privilege of taking the tour at the capitol a few years back while serving as a page.  The tour guide pointed out the eagle and noted that it's head was turned towards the arrows because it supposedly was created during World War II. The creator must have been under the impression that the "urban legend" noted above was actually true and the tour guide also expressed his belief that tradition of turning the eagle's head is a real one.  That being said, I support the earlier revisers on this section and agree that the oddity is not worth mentioning. Zephyr12 (talk) 00:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Intriguinger and intriguinger. Thanks Zephyr! -Pete (talk) 00:42, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I worked at the capitol and had a friend involved with the page program and he gave me the impression some of the tour guides, uh, embellished things a bit. :) Katr67 (talk) 05:55, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: State seal on floor

message: We need some sort of diagram or map showing where everything is located.Bobbyb30q (talk) 01:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Diagram/Map

message: The article states that Oregon's is the only Art Deco capitol.  ("It is the only Art Deco style state capitol.")
However, the article for the Louisiana State Capitol cites it as an Art Deco building (in the side bar table to the right of the article with fast facts of the LA building, the architectural style is given as Art Deco).
Sorry, I don't know how to properly post this, but just wanted to bring it to someone's attention.
:Perfect place to post, just don't forget to sign with ~~~~. Looks like you're right, though there is a cited source in the article saying Oregon's is the only one. AM? Got cite? Do the editors at the Oregonian need to be beaten again? Katr67 (talk) 06:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Odd the source does say its the only one, but Louisiana State Capitol says it is Art Deco, as does the North Dakota State Capitol, plus a picture of the Nebraska State Capitol is on the Art Deco page (its article says moderne). So I'm not sure how to word it at this point. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: By my original research, I'd say LA is Art Deco and ND and NE are moderne, but obviously it's a fine line. The LA capitol, at least the main entrance part, is eerily similar to Oregon's. I was thinking we could rewrite it to say "one of two (3, 4)", but we'll need a source. I bet there are more than a few The Big Exhaustive Picture Book of All 50 State Capitols (written by an actual architect) we could take a look at... Perhaps the "only" bit should be commented out for now. Katr67 (talk) 15:52, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is getting sureal. I'm searching for a strong source, and people do think NE is art deco, in fact an article in the Lincoln paper says the architect Bertram Goodhue helped the transition to Art Deco, with a source of Wikipedia! Lots of mentions of NE and ND as art deco. I could not find anything with a set number, but this thesis at UoO might. Plus the guy also helped write a book on UoO's architecture so he may have a better understanding of architecture. Aboutmovies (talk) 20:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

text: * I propose to remove - Art Deco - entirely and replace the term with - Modernistic style of PWA Moderne   
Please provide input.   - PS : The application is, in all reality what this article dreams to be and I feel more of the article needs written from and expanded by its information as further discussion. Darryl.P.Pike (talk) 18:07, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Art Deco?

message: Where exactly did the second capitol sit, the one that burned in the 1930s? Was it the same place, facing north, as the current building? --98.232.182.66 (talk) 00:27, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Second capitol's footprint?

message: Might have some info to mine. Aboutmovies (talk) 10:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Source on 2nd

message: * http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/09/oregon_state_capitol_75th_birt.html
* http://photos.oregonlive.com/photo-essay/2013/09/history_of_the_oregon_state_ca.html
--Another Believer (Talk) 15:06, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: From the Centennial History of Oregon:
Would be great to fix 'er up and incorporate it. -Pete (talk) 01:08, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for not forsaking us Oregonians, Pete! I'm no good at the fixeruppering, who is our resident photoshopper these days? I'm too tired to check but are all those buildings mentioned in the article? I know the Holman Building is. And, for updating purposes, I've heard rumors about everyone having to move out again for a seismic retrofit... Valfontis (talk) 03:23, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:   How could I forsake Oregon when the news is so juicy? I jest..but it's probably too soon, too soon. Anyway, here is a better version of that image (now on Commons). It could be split up into separate images if desired...and see here for info on which is which. No, I haven't yet matched them to the article...it could be there is useful info in the neighboring text, too. I'll be back if nobody gets to this first... -Pete (talk) 07:19, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Found a useful image 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Oregon State Capitol. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071121015117/http://www.leg.state.or.us/html_tour/tour_text.htm to http://www.leg.state.or.us/html_tour/tour_text.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071028070139/http://www.leg.state.or.us/capinfo/foundation/walkoftheflags_dedication.htm to http://www.leg.state.or.us/capinfo/foundation/walkoftheflags_dedication.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070820215837/http://www.leg.state.or.us/restoration/ to http://www.leg.state.or.us/restoration/
*Added  tag to http://www.ovma.us/Veterans%20Memorials.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090727004026/http://www.grandronde.org/news/Content.aspx?id=6962 to http://www.grandronde.org/news/Content.aspx?id=6962
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:22, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Oregon State Capitol. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928044013/http://gesswhoto.com/statehouse.html to http://gesswhoto.com/statehouse.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: I see a rotunda. Where's the dome? Where's the hemi-sphere? Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:42, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Removing the dome category. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:02, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dome? What dome? 

message: Why is this not included?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nearman#2020_Oregon_Capitol_riot 38.73.253.217 (talk) 04:29, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, thank you for the note. You're welcome to add something yourself. I'll do a quick addition, it'll take a little effort to do something more nuanced. Please feel free to edit what I add. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 20:56, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. 38.73.253.217 (talk) 17:32, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Riot? 

message: I've noticed that not all of the sources cited fully support the content they are backing, which is especially concerning as this is listed as a featured article.
*  - not in cited source
*  - not in cited source
*  close paraphrasing issues when compared to the source 
*  - source does not associate a 1853 date with this park
I'm concerned that based on these issues from a small sample, that source-text integrity lapses like this are more widespread in the article. I also wonder if some of the text needs checked for currency; for instance, the article implies the Waite Fountain is the original one from 1907-ish; but it appears to have been replaced by a structure of different design. Listing at WP:FARGIVEN; a featured article review is likely necessary unless the sources can be checked and fixed/replaced. Hog Farm  Talk 02:46, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source-text integrity concerns