Talk:Dresden/Archive 1

message: 25.000 dead people were found and burried. It is nearly absolutely sure that in fact it were many more, for example many burnt. The total nummber is estimated most often to be sommething around 35.000, other serious sources say 125.000 or even more, neonazi propaganda says 300.000-450.000 refering to the American Red Cross 1945. During the last weeks of the war the administration spoke about only 16.000.
The truth is that everything between 25.000-140.000 can be true and official statistics after the 1950s used all numbers between 25.000-160.000, in both parts of Germany. I as Dresden maniac and citizen guess something around 45.000, but it is very hard to estimate and 140.000 sounds reasonable if you imagine all those comepletey destroyed living quarters with 6 floors in each big building. On the other hand many people survided even out of completely destroyed houses. The city was populated with 570.000 out of former 630.000 citizens and the same number of refugees from the east front.
Somebody changed a picture description to: 75% of the -center- was destroyed, this is wrong because the center was destroyed complety. The city is rather big in area, much bigger than usually a city with that amount of population. So the damage was rather different in each quarter, but 79% of all flats, not necesarrily houses, had "some" damage (total and meaningless counted together). There were 222.000 flats in total. 75.000 of them totally destroyed, 11.000 strongly hit, 7.000 hit, 81.000 slightly damaged. The innercity in those times were closer built than today. The villa districts suffered much less destruction than other quarters. 
The militaric facilities in the north of the city were not hit, but they had not much meaning in the last weeks of the war anyway. Most material was on the east front, the city was not meaningful defended against air strikes and it also was not a militarically important center. It is not sure that the optical industry was used for militaric weapons, this is only pure guessing.
Please don´t get me wrong. I don´t want blame anybody for anything, I like the US and Britain, just help to stick to the facts. Some recent changes went out of control. NetguruDD 07:00, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Netguru, I changed "total and meaningless" to "total, meaningless" in the article picture caption, but I'm not sure what you meant by "meaningless", now I read your comment here. Do you mean "total and slight" damage? Meaningless means "sinnlos". Oh, and what are "marshalling yards" in German? Saintswithin 12:49, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers regarding dead people and destroyed houses, flats. 

message: This evening, the FIDE declared that Dresden will hold the "Olympic Games" of Chess in 2008. The "Olympic Games" in chess could not been established as part of the Olympic Summer games despite the FIDE tried so. Already 2004 the European women´s championship took place in Dresden. I don´t know if the first thing is worth to be published here on the Dresden wikipedia site. I only saw that CNN was reporting rather much about the European ladies´ championship. NetguruDD 18:01, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  News 

message: This caption needs serious rewording:
:79% of all flats suffered total, particularly those in bigger inner-city buildings, or negligible destruction; the center became a sea of ruins.
:fixed: hopefully I have understood the meaning...?  Saintswithin 19:24, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor Caption 

message: Does anyone have any good photos of Dresden taken during the day? These are all night-time ones! Saintswithin 19:24, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Photos

message: Substituted at 14:42, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: You all could see stupid nationalistic games of drunk pole Hello-but here. The same he and few his friends (an "administrator" Piotrus, Witkacy, Balcer and Lysy) do on Lithuanian articles.
We Lithuanians fully support our German friends. We have to stop drunk polish rampage together. Best wishes from Vilnius, Lithuania. 85.206.194.242 (Zivinbudas)  07:05, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polish stupidity 

message: I'm going to reword "Others see it as a military necessary action taken to support the Red Army." to "necessary military" but if the intent was "militarily necessary" please correct as you see fit.--Bruce Couper 18:28, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  World War II 

message: I don't get the reason why the Sorbian name for Dresden is there in the first line. It would only be understandable if there was a German version for the name that was different from the English one.
Jlpspinto 21:15, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The original name of the city was taken from oldsorbian and formed into Old High German as "Dresdene". The English Name of the city is the same as the german one. I improved the etymology at that place. Geo-Loge 16:49, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

text: And if we speak about further etymology of Dresden's name, it is cognate to Old Prussian trezde , Latvian strazds, strazde, Slavic drozd 'throstle, starling, blackbird'. So the first name of city most possibly was *Trazde or *Trezde. cf. Latvian district name Strazde. Roberts7 13:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sorbian? 

message: Today (October 10), 2000 demonstrators shouted angrily "Murder, murder!" at Putin when he arrived in Dresden:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,441835,00.html
Some were holding a sign: "Murder, you are no longer welcome." Millions of Germans are outraged because of the murder of this brave woman. - Free Europe.
:Sad to see Germanys education and media backsliding.
-G  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 21:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Putin welcomed as the murder of Politkovskaya in Dresden

message: "Both newspapers were established in the former East Germany. While the Sächsische Zeitung with a circulation of up to 500,000 examples was a medium of the Socialist Party, the Dresdner Neuste Nachrichten were published by the right and liberal parties. The contents of both newspaper were controlled by the censorship." 
:The DNN was around in the early 1900s, I know, then closed down (I don't know when it was founded or when it closed down). (See  It re-started in the early 1990s (1993?). The SZ first came out in 1946 and is still printed today. The above info makes it sound as if it was only a Socialist newspaper and no longer exists. Perhaps someone could do some research here and write the section again. Saint|swithin 08:48, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Die „Dresdner Neueste Nachrichten“ datieren zurück bis 1893, als eine Zeitung mit diesem Namen in Dresden gegründet wurde (sie wurde 1943 von den Nazis verboten). Sie wurde 1991 wieder ins Leben gerufen als eine Fusion von drei Zeitungen, eine von ihnen war „Die Union“, die Zeitung der Christlich-Demokratischen Unionspartei zu Zeiten der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik (1949-1989). Heute ist die DNN eine der zwei Tageszeitungen in Dresden. Die Auflage beträgt etwa 34.000 Exemplare (Angaben von 2004); die meisten Leser und Leserinnen leben in Dresden und Umgebung. Eine Besonderheit der DNN ist eine wöchentliche Sonderseite für kirchliche und religiöse Themen."  Saint|swithin 08:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Dresdner Neuste Nachrichten were created by a fusion of a couple of newspapers in 1990. Geo-Loge 12:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was called the DNN before that, though, in 1893; see above article and this photo of the front cover in 1941. I've added some more - see this article from the DNN on its 110-year anniversary; hope I've not mangled the facts! Saint|swithin 16:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: DNN

message: The article is now 46 KB long including all template and image commands. I don't think that there is any reserve now. The article has been shortened extremely in the last month. Please note: It is not acceptable that important information are missing or not reachable (like there were main chapters dumped, which should make a main article reachable, in some article to fulfill the size goal!). Therefore I think, that the a lenght of less than 40 KB is unrealistic without of quality loss. Geo-Loge 12:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article size

message: As of , the article during my review, I failed this article for Good Article status. Per WP:WIAGA,
# The article is undercited. There are a lot of unsourced sections.
# There is a  template since 1 December 2006.
# Too many unnecessary external links, per WP:EL.
# Too many images; they are cluttering the article. Some images do not relate with the current paragraph and its captions are not well informative. I didn't look all of those images, but found :Image:Dresd 4.jpg has no fair use rationale and :Image:Dresdenschool.jpg has an obsolete license tag.
When all of those issues are resolved, this article can be renominated back. As always, if you feel disagree with my reviews, you may ask for re-reviews. — Indon (reply) — 15:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed GA 

message: Please introduce the Infobox German Location. It provides a coherent look among German cities. Lear 21 23:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:Infobox German Location]] 

message: Should the Saxon triangle really be mentioned in  the intro? The Saxon triangle is an advertising concept with a practical relevance of little to none whatsoever. As someone living in Dresden I can assure you that no one here cares about being part of the Saxon triangle (after all, almost all of Saxony plus parts of the neignbouring states belong to it). Malc82 03:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saxon triangle 

message: The article states "The United Nations cultural organization UNESCO declared the Dresden Elbe Valley to be a World Heritage Site in 2004. After being placed on the list of endangered World Heritage Sites in 2006, the city is most likely going to lose the title in July 2007 due to the construction of the Waldschlößchenbrücke. UNESCO stated in 2006 that the bridge will destroy the cultural landscape. The city council's legal moves to prevent the bridge being built failed."
Did it lose it's status UNESCO? Kingjeff 19:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The bridge

message: Please do not build up annother detailed depiction of the firebombings. There is Bombing of Dresden in World War II and there are some undetailed phrases in the article. The article was reduced to it's about 50kb lenght.
And please do not add contributions such as "UNPROVEN AND APOLOGIST STATEMENT:
"The usefulness of targeting the Alberstadt was limited by attacks on the railway network in the last month of the war." "
The text was: "It was not directly attacked in the bombings of Dresden but its usefulness was limited by attacks on the railway network in the last month of the war." Please start reading and please start reading this if there is unclarity! Discussions and POV spam in articles gets my goat. Geo-Loge (talk) 23:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Military history 

message: I’m a geographer from Dresden, so I am aware of the term’s origin. The fact however remains that the vast majority of inhabitants of the Saxon triangle have never even heard the term and it is not commonly used to describe any of the locations that are part of it, so it definitely doesn’t belong in the introduction. It’s rightful place would be in an article about Raumordnung (regional planning) in Saxony. Malc82 (talk) 23:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Saxon triangle

message: To avoid disaccord about definition. The Saxon Triangle is a "large population center consisting of a large metropolis and its adjacent zone of influence, or of more than one closely adjoining neighboring central cities and their zone of influence". The three cores of the triangle have intersected areas of influence and intersected commuter belts although they are not neighbored. However an "thight-knit (sub)urban area" is not a metropolitan area; it's part of it beeing the thight belt arround the metropolis rather. A metropolitan area includes a peripheral zone.
The coherency of the region is not due to Halle having a strong influence on the eastern most parts but due to an intersection of peripheral zones (towns as there are Riesa, Altenburg and Freiberg) that are influenced by more than one metropolis. And at last: Influences between the three cores and  combined functionallity. Geo-Loge (talk) 17:44, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Term of [[metropolitan area]] 

message: This article cannot deserve any B-class rate as the history chapter is really made by feet, looking like a medium-school assignement; whatever the judgement, it's anyway too short considered the importance of the entry. --Attilios (talk) 22:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: History section to be remade or soundly expanded

message: I deleted the section about the Allied bombing of Dresden in WW2. It was politically charged and uses sources that are not unbiased. It was typical anti-American propaganda which is basically what all of wiki has become. Sad... 
I'm sure someone will put it back up, but I'll delete it again..and again... and again... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Debbiedowner (talk • contribs) 
:Debbie, that's a good way to get blocked. I would suggest that you find a way to rephrase the section to remove the bias you see, rather than just blanking the whole section.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Your plan sounds like you feel you "own" the article. We edit by consensus, consistent with use of reliable sources, verifiability, neutral point of view and other policies and guidelines you can read about from the links in the welcome message on your user talk page. Do not remove large sections of text when there is no consensus here to do so. Please sign your posts, and always use explanatory edit summaries when deleting text from an article. Edison (talk) 19:56, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted Dresden bombing section 

message: *I was working on the napalm article and I came across an article I used for referencing that has some info that might be good for this page:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/napalm.htm
:Allied bombers dropped an estimated 3.4 kilotons of incendiaries on the German city of Dresden.
The British employed 1477.7 tons of high explosive bombs and 1181.6 tons of incendiary bombs --
 all aimed against the Dresden city area. Military records indicate that about half of the bombs that 
rained on Dresden were napalm bombs. The exact number of casualties from the Dresden bombings can never be 
firmly established. Most of the latest German post-war estimates are that about 25,000 persons were killed and about 
30,000 were wounded, virtually all of these being casualties from the RAF incendiary attack of 13/14 February 1945.
bwmcmaste (talk) 07:22, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dresden Bombing

message: Articles on other German cities contain information for the "history" of the city for th period 1933-45.  This is conspicuously absent at this time for Dresden, but the period is mentioned in the article on the bombing of Dresden.
We have this one sentence:
Dresden was a centre of European modern art until 1933.
The article seems to suggest that the waar wrrived in Dresden from the air in the early winter of 1945, whch is not the case. The article's omission of 1933-39 is not excusable. Other articles of cities attracting tourists have also had this flaw in the past.
This is a remarkable contrast to the article in our sister site, de.wikipedia.org.  Out article has the term Nazi occur in history AFTER 1945.  Here is the German text from today's de.wikipedia.org/wiki/dresden which mentions the Jewsof the city, the book-burnings and more.
"Zeit des Nationalsozialismus 
Die etwa 5000 jüdischen Dresdner, die noch 1933 Gemeindemitglieder waren, wurden vertrieben oder später in Konzentrationslager deportiert. Der Antisemitismus in Dresden ist vor allem durch die Tagebücher Victor Klemperers („Ich will Zeugnis ablegen bis zum letzten“) dokumentiert. Nach dem Zweiten Weltkrieg lebten nur noch 41 Juden in der Stadt.
Bei den Bücherverbrennungen am 10. Mai 1933 sollte unter anderem das Werk des Dresdners Erich Kästner „symbolisch für immer ausgetilgt werden“. Das vor allem expressionistische Kulturleben Dresdens aus dem ersten Viertel des 20. Jahrhunderts endete 1933. Die Werke von Ernst Ludwig Kirchner, Max Pechstein, Karl Schmidt-Rottluff oder Otto Dix dieser Zeit waren Teil der Ausstellung „Entartete Kunst“. 56 Werke der Galerie Neue Meister wurden beschlagnahmt. Dagegen erlebte die Staatsoper, geprägt von Werken von Richard Strauss, keine wesentliche Zäsur.
Zwischen 1939 und 1945 wurden auch KZ-Häftlinge, vor allem aus den Lagern in Auschwitz und Flossenbürg, in der Stadt in KZ-Außenlagern interniert.[10] Mehrere Hundert Frauen mussten Zwangsarbeit in der Rüstungsindustrie bei den Firmen Zeiss Ikon AG (im Goehle-Werk und in Dresden-Reick), und in der Universelle Maschinenfabrik leisten. Die noch erhaltenen Privatbanken im jüdischen Familienbesitz wurden unter Zwang der Dresdner Bank angeschlossen.
Dresden war seit Jahrhunderten ein militärisches Zentrum und diente bis 1945 zur Aufstellung militärischer Großverbände. Die Albertstadt nördlich des Stadtzentrums war als autarke Militärstadt angelegt und wurde in der Zeit des Nationalsozialismus weiter ausgebaut."
A Google translation of that German wikipedia article quote follows:
"The Nazi period about 5,000 Jewish Dresdner, which in 1933 were community members have been expelled or deported to concentration camps later. Anti-Semitism in Dresden is mainly through the diaries of Victor Klemperer ('I will bear witness to the last ") documents. After the Second World War, only 41 Jews lived in the city.
In the book burning on 10 May 1933 "should be blotted out forever symbolically" including the work of Erich Kaestner Dresdners. The mainly expressionist culture of life in Dresden in the first quarter of the 20th Century ended 1933rd The works by Ernst Ludwig Kirchner, Max Pechstein, Karl Schmidt-Rottluff and Otto Dix that time were part of the exhibition "Degenerate Art". 56 Works of the Galerie Neue Meister were confiscated. On the other hand experienced the Staatsoper, dominated by works by Richard Strauss, no significant turning point.
Between 1939 and 1945 were also concentration camp prisoners, mainly from the camps at Auschwitz and prisoners from the city to concentration camps interned. [10] Several hundred women had to do forced labor in the armaments industry in the company Zeiss Ikon AG (Goehle-work and contribute in Dresden-Reick), and in the Universal machine Factory. The surviving private banks in the Jewish family have been connected under compulsion of the Dresdner Bank.
Dresden was a military center for centuries and was used until 1945 to set up large military formations. The Albert City north of the center was created as an autonomous military town and was built in the era of National Socialism"
G. Robert Shiplett — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grshiplett  (talk • contribs)  — Preceding undated comment added 20:31, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time period vanished: 1933-1945 

message: The Dresden Elbe Valley was an internationally recognised site of cultural significance by the UNESCO World Heritage Committee for five years. After being placed on the list of endangered World Heritage Sites in 2006, the city had its status as world heritage site formally removed in June 2009, for the wilful breach of the UNESCO World Heritage Convention, due to the construction of a highway bridge across the valley within 2 km of the historic centre. It thereby became the first location ever in Europe to lose this status, and the second ever in the world.[24]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.186.240.201 (talk) 19:13, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Info below is mentioned twice in row. Accidental duplication? 

message: this page has a big problem with  lack of sources. I am witnessing a continuous stream of editors adding unsourced material . Its probably how it arrived at sections and sections without source.--Wuerzele (talk) 02:21, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  addition of unsourced material