Talk:Saint George

message: Edward Gibbon was of the opinion that the original man on whom the legend was based was not quite so holy. He states, quite confidently, that during the Arian controversy, when the Arians had the upper hand in the battle to define the doctrine of the church, Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, was sticking to his anti-arian guns and making waves. He was thrown out by the powers that be and replaced by the Arian George of Cappadocia who Gibbon portrays as a money-grabbing, power hungry thug. Although he was unpopular with everyone it was the pagan residents of the city who rose up against him when they were encouraged by hearing that they had a pagan emperor in Julian the Apostate (as he is now known). Being killed by pagans meant that he was a martyr and his behaviour while alive was forgotten.
All of this may of course be rubbish - Gibbon may be a great and influential historian but his word is not gospel truth. So does anyone know if this version has any sources to back it up or was it nonsense which has been debunked over the last two centuries. --Spondoolicks 21:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was surprised by the fact that Gibbon's account isn't mentioned at all.  I thought he based his account on that by Ammianus? Jimg (talk) 20:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I really think that Gibbon's account should be sumarized and included.  Whether or not there are questions surrounding his conclusions, he is/was a highly influential historian and his account has been widely read.  I am tempted to add a short section. Jimg (talk) 13:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please add such a section. I came to this page looking for information on Gibbon's account, and I suspect others will come too. If it's a settled question, it'd be good to refute Gibbon's libel. If it's still contended, it's all the more pertinent to an article on St. George. Amulekii (talk) 00:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Arian Bishop of Alexandria?

message: St. George is also honored in the Muslim world under the name Al-Khidr.
:On the topic of Muslim-related content, the article includes this: "One Muslim legend recounts that George lived among a group of Muslims who had been in direct contact with the last disciples of Jesus." This sounds odd. If what is meant is the original, first disciples of Jesus, they would have been over 600 years old by the time Muhammad was born.  Can anyone clarify what the author meant here? Greenbough (talk) 01:51, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It most likely means that the disciples took lots of vitamins and got to live very very long... kidding. Just looks incorrect, so I flagged it and will delete later unless someone clarifies it. History2007 (talk) 01:58, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  In the Muslim world 

message: Please could "superdude99" explain why my contribution regarding Ken Livingstone's refusal to allow a St. George's celebration in London has been deleted twice. This has been widely reported in the British press (both The Times and The Telegraph have given details) and I have written to the Mayor himself about it, not that he ever bothered to reply. It seems to me to be both a relevant and accurate addition.
Mr Ken Livingstone, is a member of si-pac a communist secret society,one of this societies aims is to undermine the Christian and Muslem faiths by any means possible, He (Ken) hates muslims and St George is highly venerated in Palistine and amoungst the Coptic peoples of Eygpt. He would no doubt rather flay himself than see the people he dispises so much enjop their patron Saints day.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.3.64 (talk) 17:50, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  St George as England's Patron Saint 

message: I have the gravest doubt regarding the text here: "On June 2 1893, Pope Leo XIII demoted St George as Patron Saint for the English, relegating him to the secondary rank of 'national protector' and replaced him with St Peter as the Patron Saint of England. The change was solemnly announced by Cardinal Herbert Vaughan in the Brompton Oratory. This papal pronouncement served to exclude the Catholic Church in England from a day which is part of English tradition". I can't find any external verification for it. JohnHarris 10:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  St George as England's 'national protector' 

message: I am deleting a sample image on this page. It is a sample image and unneeded.--Matt D 00:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sample Image

message: An anon changed the link in the info box from Palestine to Israel. I have decided to revert back since at the time this person existed, this area was called "Palaestina". — TheKMantalk 01:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Palestine (region)|Palestine]]/[[Israel]] 

message: He was named Athanasius (Αθανάσιος ο Μάγος) and he wasn't exactly a priest. One can check the synaxari or The Passion of St. George from patron saints index: St George. talk to +MATIA 09:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  anonymous pagan priest 

message: Wasn't there also another George who was matryed trying to aid Paul's escape from Damascus? I'm pretty sure that there were other St. George's in antiquity, as well as others more recent than the current one. If there are, I'll be happy to make a dismabiguation. Let me know on my talk page...--V. Joe 07:51, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Other Saint Georges?

message: The introduction looked very small in comparison to most other articles, so I added a bit.
I've also added a line that says "The flag of Saint George is now probably most visible when flown by supporters of England sporting teams." but I'm fairly sure that will be controversial. Maybe it shouldn't be there, but I think it's true. Kayman1uk 09:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beefed up the intro 

message: "A comic book, Aliens vs. Predator Annual #1, retold the story with the "dragon" of the legend revealed to be a Yautja, or Predator."
I've removed this as it's really nothing to do with the saint. I'll be kind and move it to the article George and the Dragon. Kayman1uk 09:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comic Book Reference

message: Well, I'm going to continue summarising edits here even if no-one else wants to any more. Given that George seems to have an astonishingly wide range of patronage, it's worth drawing attention to that diverse group in the intro.
For what it's worth, I think the recent edits have dramatically improved the page, particularly the side-bar. Kayman1uk 11:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of the discussion page

message: Given that there is a main page dedicated to George and the Dragon, the amount of space dedicated to analysis of the story/myth/allegory here seemed excessive. I've thinned out that section considerably.
I accept that a significant amount of effort was put into this section by several people, and I would encourage them to merge their work into the relevant page, rather than lose it.
The approach I took to eliminating sentences was essentially (and completely subjectively) to keep what I thought were the most common/accessible references e.g. I kept Greek myths over Germanic and Indian ones, simply because the Greek ones tend to have filtered through into the English language a bit more. Let's discuss. Kayman1uk 12:31, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: removing the Germanic and Vedic myths kinda misses the point; they showed that the dragon slaying myth is a pan-Indo-European tradition. The best way to illustrate that is to give examples from all branches of the family. --Krsont 12:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a fair point but I think including further examples just expands the analysis of the myth on a page that should be about George. I'll have a go at incorporating your "pan-Indo-European" tradition comment, mention Germanic and Vedic myths (without being specific) and remove one of the greek ones to prevent the section growing again. Hope that sounds reasonable. Kayman1uk 15:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  George and the Dragon 

message: As many countries and cities have George as patron saint, I deleted the three that were mentioned in the lead, for NPOV. --Matthead 21:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The guy is fresh from the block for revert warring and again at it. Seems like we have a new Molobo here. --Ghirla -трёп- 09:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ghirla surrenders. Ad hominem attack does not replace arguments. --Matthead 11:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Countries and cities 

message: The only ref that contained the name STIHDJIA for the dragon that I could find that was not just a copy of this article on another site was 
:"A Stone Carving Set Into A Wall Depicting Saint George Slaying The Dragon UK"
http://www.alamy.com/stock_photography/1/1/Adrian+Sherratt/AP1WH9.html
It was part of a list unattached to prose, likely put there to attact search-engines. I don't think this qualifies as confirmation. I'm skeptical on the name with this lack of refs. I'll keep looking.
:--Wowaconia 17:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  STIHDJIA? 

message: This article has it backwards, so I am modifying it.
:No, he was born in Lydda, lived in cappadocia and died in nicomedia. Modifying it.189.24.29.180 (talk) 17:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's incorrect. The various hagiographic sources place the birthplace of George at Cappadocia, and his martyrdom and burial at Lydda (with the exception of Eusebius which places with the martyrdom at Nicomedia, without explicitly naming George). I suppose you have better sources than the exant hagiographic material. JD  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.76.96.150 (talk) 17:54, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  St. George was born in Cappadocia and died in Lydda 

message: Our parenting website has two articles on St George that I'd like to place links to from this page.
One has facts about St George and his origins http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/fea/fea140_stgeorge.asp
The other page features traditional English recipes families could cook to celebrate St George's Day
http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/fea/fea109_stgeorgesday.asp
I think both are relevant and useful, but wanted to put the links up for discussion before I added them.  Rkeditor 08:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Link Suggestion 

message: I have deleted the unsourced, unwikified personal essay that was anonymously entered. Much of it is already in the article, and the potted hisory notes are irrelevant to George and treated in their own Wikipedia articles. Please look at the [deleted text here] and see whether there is anything that can be given a source and added back to the article. --Wetman 18:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Personal essay

message: I'm not sure that St George is the patron saint of Canada; I thought that he was some French dude, but I may be wrong. Any ideas? Poojean 16:16, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I never heard about that. According to the Canadian Encyclopedia, Jean de Brébeuf is the patron saint of Canada. However, he's probably celebrated only among catholics.--N Jordan (talk) 17:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canada 

message: In the Serbian Orthodox Church St. George is a Patron Saint of many families and has many churches and monastaries named after him.
Serbia should be mentioned in this article.
24.150.77.3 18:08, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As far I know, St. George is not a Patron saint of Serbia. Could you please provide some references? --N Jordan (talk) 17:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serbia 

message: Whoever started the FAC process, did not carry it through. It is not listed at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 12:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: FAC

message: This article hasn't received a GA review yet. Should do this before FA. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 12:43, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article Nominee

message: There aren't enough sources. Alientraveller 14:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA fail

message: San Giorgio (St.George) is also the patron saint of the italian city of Ferrara, where the former 10th century cathedral and the splendid new 12th century basilique cathedral were built and named after Him.
*Ferrara Cathedral
*:it:Basilica di San Giorgio fuori le mura
--MosMaiorum 02:50, 17 October 2007
*Then add it to the article. --evrik (talk) 14:28, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patron Saint of Ferrara, Italy 

message: Whose idea was it to add Deptford to the list of countries (or at least historically autonomous regions) of whom G is patron saint? 82.40.237.89 (talk) 16:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deptford?? 

message: :Image:SVH06 2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 07:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:SVH06 2.jpg

message: How can jews consider that Elijah is buried there if Elijah is said to have been taken away to heaven in a chariot?
since when did religion have to make sense?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.30.174 (talk) 04:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Shrine

message: Some sources put his birth place as Coventry (mostly English ballads), however others put it as Cappadocia (notably, The Golden Legend), where his father came from.  
I've edited to include the ambiguity over his birthplace, as there is probably at least as much weight toward it being Cappadocia than Coventry, and the Golden Legend is quite a notable version of the St George legend.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.30.174 (talk) 05:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth place 

message: This article lacks sources for the information provided. Diocletian is mentioned as the factor behind Georges death, which is unproven. There are no hard facts as to when George lived, and where he was born, or even what his actual name was. This article should be labled as such. Nathraq (talk) 16:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extremely Off Base Article 

message: This title has been returned to Saint George, as the title that the normally well-prepared Wikipedia reader will search. The attempted title "George of Lydda" knowingly inserts a spurious air of historicity, to give this legendary archetype an underserved aura of historical reality. --Wetman (talk) 19:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "George of Lydda" 

message: I don't know how reliable this is, but in Scanderbeg: From Ottoman Captive to Albanian Hero, it sates: "Scanderbeg himself vouchsafed a vision that had come to him: St. George, the Christian warrior and the patron saint of Albania, had personally presented him with a flaming sword to destroy the enemies of true religion." This was probably taken from Marin Barleti, an Albanian clergyman who wrote a biography about Scanderbeg. --Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 19:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albania? 

message: If George made it into his "late 20s" before his promotion and the events of 302 AD, how could he be born any later than 276? The date of death seems so certain, how could 285 be remotely plausible as a birth-year? 63.88.67.230 (talk) 01:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Age

message: All sections of this article are coming to be supported by citations, with the exception of the "biography", which is replete with details, even dates, to give it verisimilitude. This is not the miracle-filled account from Legenda Aurea. Where is it from? I have not peppered the text with demands for facts and citations, as I find that behavior distasteful. But anyone who can support any "historical" detail with a citation would improve this ambitious but weak section. --Wetman (talk) 05:13, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that section needs help. And I need a little time to research it and get references. There are plenty of items published, so it will be a question of getting the most "established" sources together as references, and perhaps rework some of the text. I will try that in a few days. History2007 (talk) 11:17, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

text: PS: I added a few preliminary references today, but need to add more in the next few days and rework some of the text. History2007 (talk) 12:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "biography" 

message: I added a few refs, but elsewhere this article has many statements and assertions, and many church names that are not verifiable. Unless there are good suggestions otherwise, I will clean up a few of the "I guess it might be true" unsupported items in a day or two. Cheers History2007 (talk)
:I waited and there was no objection. So I will wait a little more, then remove the totally unreferenced items from this article. I am actually amazed how much unreferenced material there is here. It seems that if someone typed "Beethoven used to have a picture of Saint George on his wall whenever he composed" with no reference, there would have been no objection to it being in the article. Obviously that cannot continue. So, having said that, I will clean up the unsourced material later today. Cheers History2007 (talk) 12:28, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: :Regarding historicity, please read this book first:
::* Christopher Walter, 2003, The Warrior Saints in Byzantine Art and Tradition Ashgate Publishing, 
:then discuss the issues thereafter. It has a good discussion and is referenced in the article. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 10:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Reading/refs

message: The Saint's name is Greek. It is Georgios and not 'George'. No remark is made on this.
The name of the Saint's father is Greek and he was a Greek serving Roman army, not a
Roman. His name was Gerontios and not 'Geronizio'. No Remark is made on this.
The name of the Saint's mother is Greek: Polychronia. So we have three individuals
all with Greek names. What a coincidence but no worth commenting according to the
authors of this article. His mother was from Palaestine (another Greek name)-
not Palestine. The Palaestinians are originaly from Crete in Greece. In many modern historical articles (including wikipedia articles) the historical person's biography
has no reference to his ethnic origin. They avoid it. Especially if it's Greek. Even if his name is Greek and his parents' name's are Greek then they will avoid it even more. You really have to dig in such articles to see what is the ethnic origin of those persons. And even then you dont find it because it isn't there. I guess it is more important to mention the ethic background of someone that met Saint George rather
than mention the ethnic background of the Saint himself. But what are they going to say? That the patron Saint of all those countries is Greek? Noway. They're going to be
unclear by saying: "a roman soldier according to tradition" (but not mentioning his Greek origin), "mother from Palestine" (rather than a Palestinian or a Greek woman with a Greek name from the area of Palestine in which the Greek colonies (and not English or Bulgarian) were multiple. On top of that do not mention Greek Orthodox tradition or Greece in the list of countries. And there you have it. Instead they mention Bulgaria. The Bulgarians were made Christians by the Byzantine Greeks. And then they mention India and Brazil! Next thing they're going to mention China as the fellow commentator said before me. Or as the other fellow asked above about his origins but noone answered to him.Kassos (talk) 22:15, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, do you have good references that say he was Greek? If so, please list them below. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 22:38, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of these points are now included in the article; I would also support Georgios being included at the start of the lead, after his English name; regardless of historicity, this was almost certainly considered to be his original name. --xensyriaT 00:52, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek Name and Greek Origin 

message: Although Genoa's flag is St. George's Cross, its patron Saint is St. John the Baptist. I know it's weird but consider also that Genoa's Cathedral is dedicated to St. Lawrence and the Virgin Mary was adopted as Queen in the Middle Ages. 92.60.35.2 (talk) 09:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  St. George as Patron Saint 

message: *
*Saint George: Devotions, traditions and prayers, where it is cited to Bibliotheca Hagiographica Graeca 271, 272.
-More provided on request.
This really is an unprecedented level of harassment directed at contributors trying to improve the quality of an embarassingly deficient article, I must say...!  Let's try hard to envision what a "good article" would look like.  Would a complete, high class article not, sooner or later, have to include all the relevant info from all the relevant sources - such as what most of them call his parents names?   Do we have to fight tooth-and-nail to avoid resembling anything like what all the real-world sources out there have on this subject? What a joke ROFLOL  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.105.41.97 (talk) 21:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I added that reference. All you needed was one ref. It was less effort than the debates. Now, please provide refs for Anastasius and Theobaste so they can remain in the article, else they have to go. History2007 (talk) 21:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources for Latin forms of "Geronzio" and "Policronia", St. George's parents 

message: An IP removed the term Palestine, saying that it is obsolete. I personally have no political views on Isreal vs Palestine but that deletion is clearly a POV political statement. I did a web search and Jimmy Carter wrote a book with Palestine in the title about year ago. So it is not obsolete. History2007 (talk) 17:07, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: IP change to geographical location

message: As is the section on patronage is dominating the article now and MOST of the entries are reference free. And many of the entries are churches that need to go to the Church page. I suggest moving it to a new page called Patronages of Saint George, for this article is about the saint, not geography. Unless there are good reasons not to, I will do that later. History2007 (talk) 10:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see any need for the split. There is a lot of it, but it is all at the bottom where it belongs. Given his legendary character, the remarkably widespread veneration of St George is the most notable thing about him. The mere churches, especially the Lebanese ones, should be removed - most are no doubt already on the list at St George's Church, though some are important historic buildings, others not.  Otherwise it is not worth damaging the article just to make it GA-worthy, if that is the plan.  Johnbod (talk) 11:30, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: My plan was not making it GA-worthy, for I don't pay attention to ratings. I was just tired of looking at my watch list at all those churches getting added with no references. And the article does seem long. But your point about patronage being a key issue is valid. So do you have a better solution? As is, it is just so much patronage, many not noteworthy. Maybe needs a trim. History2007 (talk) 11:55, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well churches can be removed to the dedicated article without compunction, unless really important - is there a sentence/note directing people there? - that might restrain new additions here. Otherwise its just one of those articles which attracts additions, whilst dozens of figures of equal status hardly get touched. An occasional visit to prune & tidy is how I handle these - I did a couple of sections here. The infobox patronage is certainly way too long - most could go in "other" in the text.  I suppose a patronage article is a possibility - do we have any others? Johnbod (talk) 13:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Ok, but I'd leave it a few days, in case others want to comment. Johnbod (talk) 14:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine. I need a few days to think about how to do it anyway. If you have suggestions as to what patronages to keep or move, please provide them. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 14:28, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there are no more comments, I will start doing that little by little. The article, image placement etc. all look unkempt as well, and could do with some spring cleaning. I will try that as well. Cheers. History2007 (talk) 00:03, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Patronage

message: The British Eddas written by L.A Waddell convincingly argues that St George is none other than King Arthur and Thor and Indara of the Indo-Aryans. Ar-thur is synonymous with Herr-Thor. In-Dara synonymous with K(in)g Dar..ie lord Thor ie Ar-thor. Goer or Geir is the name of his hammer which he always carried(mace, or spear) an epithet of Thor of ancient times used everywhere from German folk lore to the Hittites and Sumerians. Gar is Proto Indo-european for mace/weapon. The Eddas appears to be the best surviving story of George/Thor, it is uncorrupted as happened to the Greek/Latin/Hindu/Egyptian versions of George/Thor. In essence George/Thor was an indo-european coloniser of Asian Minor he fought and defeated the Chaldean's ,led by queen Frigge/El who was head of the Serpent cult. When he slew her with his mace(Goer) the myth of George slaying the reptilian dragon was born. Bas Reliefs and ancient seals abound in Asia Minor containing pictures of George/Thor slaying Snakes/Dragons/crocodiles. George carried a red cross in his one hand, the symbol of his Sun religion. The Sun Cross predates christianity by thousands of years. It is unfortunately the cross and George's latter depiction on a horse with a lance which has confused historians into thinking he is recently post christian which he most certainly is not and is probably the first recorded figure in human history, hence his fame in vastly differing places. Christian missionaries in the 1st millenium are well documented as destroying all "pagan" references to George (books and stone carvings). Fortunately there are some that have survived and his story can be rebuilt. The Phoenician version of George dating to around 800BC has him on a horse with a Lance and his cross. Even this version is 2000 years after his existance around 3300BC. Its believe to have been brought to Britain by the Phoenicians which is why we have that version of him.--92.4.47.139 (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry the Laurence Waddell view is not mainstream in any scholarly accounts and was never even intended as such. History2007 (talk) 16:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Saint George and the Dragon is the place, if any, for this. Johnbod (talk) 18:03, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: St George = Arthur = Indara 

message: Many people may not know what 'Patronages of Saint George' means, and therefore it'd be nice if somebody went and gave the readers a brief definition next to the phrase. makeswell (talk) 03:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  request for clarification of 'Patronages of Saint George' 

message: I was wondering whether a picture of Pistrucci's St. George and the Dragon design should be included in some section. Especially seeing as it has been on the British coins since c.1816 [albeit now only on non-circulating issues].
It is also probably the most widely recognised picture of St. George for the British population. (esp. for the middle-aged generations due to the festival of britain crown in 1951).
I feel coin designs are relevant. Many nations depict their core/historical values on coins. any thoughts?? Wuku (talk) 12:58, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, what do you know, it is already there in a gallery, along with other coins. Good suggestion. History2007 (talk) 15:14, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pistrucci's design 

message: Since the definition of 'pagan' is:
"a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions."
To use it to denote the roman belief system of the time is quite inappropriate and confusing I would say.
When for instance it says: "every Christian soldier in the army should be arrested and every other soldier should offer a sacrifice to the Pagan gods" it leaves me in confusion what is meant with 'pagan gods'.
(and don't understand why the word pagan is capitalized either, but that's another matter).
And the various other times the word 'pagan' is used it also is unclear as to the exact information that is meant to be relayed.
Wwhat (talk) 18:18, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, on the capitalization - I changed that and added a link. Now a reader who clicks on a pagan will get a definition: "blanket term, typically used to refer to polytheistic religious traditions." That is a pretty clear definition, except polytheistic perhaps, but that is an issue for the other page- I will check that, but I am not sure how to do any better, given that in most scholarly literature the Romans of the time are called pagans any way. But I changed the link to Hellenistic religion anyway to be super clear. History2007 (talk) 20:52, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Easy enough, we will say Roman gods and link to H Civil. History2007 (talk) 13:13, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the word 'pagan' 

message: The article should mention the Sao George cult in Brasil - and his identification with the Yoruba Orisha ¨Ogun¨ see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orisha> and <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogoun> and I quote from the second article ¨ He [Ogun/Ogoun] is also prominently represented as Saint George in the syncretic traditions of contemporary Brazil.¨ At least a mention of the brasilian manifestation with a link is merrited.
(Billallenallen (talk) 03:27, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Brasil

message: Section 'Life of Saint George' includes text:
'A rather intriguing, alternative take on his early life is that he was born and raised in the "inner city living" metropolis of Newton O'er the Heath, more commonly known by the locals as, Newton Heath. Although this can neither be confirmed, nor denied, it is widely accepted he is in fact of "Newie" decent.'
My guess is that this is rubbish and should be removed.
HLCMad (talk) 13:36, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome to Wikipedia. That is why I think we need Wikipedia:Pending_changes/Request_for_Comment_2012 to have pending changes. I will delete this item anyway. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 13:52, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Newton

message: The article currently reads 
"The grateful citizens abandon their ancestral paganism and convert to Christianity." 
while the 'Saint George and the Dragon' article reads 
"The princess and Saint George led the dragon back to the city of Silene, where it terrified the people at its approach. But Saint George called out to them, saying that if they consented to become Christians and be baptised, he would slay the dragon before them.".
I think "The citizens were forced to convert to Christianity."  would be more accurate. Qube0 (talk) 12:31, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the adjective "grateful" from the text. From reading the original source text, neither point of view is presented clearly, it is not said that force was used and it was not explicitly said that they were grateful. However, the actions of the people after that point seem to indicate sincerity and gratefulness, but especially since it is a primary source, we are not permitted to draw conclusions like that, it is considered original research. So I have left the wording neutral. Elizium23 (talk) 12:41, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. History2007 (talk) 13:11, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Grateful citizens?

message: I can't find any evidence (on-line) to support the statement that St. George is the patron saint of Tamworth. There is a big St. George festival in Tamworth, Staffordshire, but all the references I can find to that say that the celebration is in honor of George being the patron of England. If someone has a better reference than I could find, that would be great. If it's not Tamworth, Staffordshire, I'd like to know which Tamworth (disambiguation) he is the patron of. Thank you. SchreiberBike (talk) 04:43, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If there's no evidence to support St. George as the patron of Tamworth, I'll remove Tamworth from the article. Thank you. SchreiberBike (talk) 21:37, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Minor issue, just do it. History2007 (talk) 02:07, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Deleted. SchreiberBike (talk) 02:26, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patron Saint of Tamworth 

message: I read from a travel guide (not the most reliable source!) that Saint George is no longer an official saint, because he really never existed. I googled a lot, but did not find anything concrete to prove or disprove this. 193.166.223.5 (talk) 09:24, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Until the Holy Office says he is not travel guides do not matter. He is still on the saints calendar. As a side note, dropping him as a saint will be very expensive for the Vatican, with all the festival changes, etc. that will cut into donations. So do not bet on it. History2007 (talk) 12:46, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: He has been demoted a lot in recent decades, as the article sort of covers. I think at one point they tried to drop him altogether but had to backtrack after protests. I'm not sure the article is fully up to date on this. Johnbod (talk) 13:43, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I am glad you are watching the page John. So I will unwatch it now, leave it in your hands - you know more about it anyway. Cheers. History2007 (talk) 13:48, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  No longer a saint in the Catholic Church? 

message: Could "George" (Georgios) have been derived from the character in Persius story: terrible (gorgos)
Gorgon Medusa? 15 September 2013  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.129.2 (talk) 21:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This discussion is perhaps more suitable for Talk:George (given name) but reliable secondary sources would be required for inclusion in the article. Elizium23 (talk) 21:37, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: George (Georgios) from gorgos Gorgon?

message: It was common for the Romans to allow pagans to continue worshiping their own deities. This would explain the widespread appearance of St. George as a patron saint and makes more sense than the story of an historical soldier.  I have added a paragraph to the section about St.George and the dragon:    There is some evidence linking the legend back to very old Egyptian and Phoenician sources in a late antique statue of Horus fighting a "dragon". This ties the legendary George and to some extent, the historical George, to various ancient sources using mythological and linguistic arguments. In Egyptian mythology, the god Setekh murdered his brother Osiris. Horus, the son of Osiris, avenged his father's death by killing Setekh. This iconography of the horseman with spear overcoming evil was widespread throughout the Christian period.[33]   (talk) 18:25, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Your source is discussed here. A better source would be  Dougweller (talk) 13:26, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Almost certainly more significant is Imperial imagery such as the Barberini ivory, or Perseus and Andromeda - all discussed at length here.  Don't get too excited by the possibility of religious continuity - there is actually a long gap between anybody being very interested in Horus & the emergence of the George images.  Many such parallels are much more about visual continuity, and sometimes the actual re-purposing of pagan images, where Christians can sometimes be caught in the act, as in the case of the statue at Caesarea Philippi that you can read about here, and various engraved gems later treated as images of Christian figures.  The para should be adjusted considerably, but then so should much of the article, the lead for a start. Johnbod (talk) 02:36, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Horus as precursor to St. George 

message: The "In Islamic Cultures" section ends with the rather strange statement "He is said to have killed a dragon near the sea in Beirut and at the beginning of the 20th century". I think someone aught to explain how exactly Saint George managed to travel almost two thousand years into the future. Seriously, though, someone should either correct that date or remove/fix that sentence (as it kind of comes out of nowhere and doesn't make sense). Pro-Apocalyptic (talk)
:You didn't quote the entire sentence. Your fragment ends with a comma. It reads "He is said to have killed a dragon near the sea in Beirut and at the beginning of the 20th century, Muslim women used to visit his shrine in the area to pray for him.". Inserting another comma after "Beirut" should suffice. Elizium23 (talk) 23:14, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "In Islamic cultures" Slayed a dragon at the beginning of the 20th century? 

message: Added on Dec. 13, 2016, the text from the beginning of this subsection through "and perished immediately" is not appropriate in its present form for Wikipedia. It contains only a single footnote, and portions of it are directly copied from that source. It does not read like encyclopedic text, but rather as a passage from a scriptural or heroic source. It should be deleted, and then possibly some judiciously selected information from the source might be added back in encyclopedic form to the Muslim section. DonFB (talk) 21:18, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jirjīs section 

message: Saint George is, according to a programme broadcast on Radio Four today (Living with the Gods presented by Neil MacGregor the patron saint of Ethiopia, so this could be mentioned in his list of patronages. Vorbee (talk) 19:55, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Patron Saint of Ethiopia

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070429070715/http://www.stgeorgesholiday.com/st_george.asp to http://www.stgeorgesholiday.com/st_george.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060218063758/http://archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.tcl?site_id=5549 to http://archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.tcl?site_id=5549
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060313162521/http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/dragons/6.html to http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/dragons/6.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050610083809/http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/dragons/38.html to http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/dragons/38.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050526223744/http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/dragons/ to http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/dragons/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080316102135/http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/golden184.htm to http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/golden184.htm
*Added  tag to http://www.digitas.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/wiki/ken/SaintGeorge
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141203064602/http://blog.catholicfaithstore.com/blog/2013/04/25/the-feast-of-st-george/ to http://blog.catholicfaithstore.com/blog/2013/04/25/the-feast-of-st-george
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Please change this:
George is venerated by Jews, Christians and Muslims because of his composite personality combining several Biblical, Quranic and other ancient mythical heroes. 
The whole section is inaccurate - This is an article about St George and not Elijah the prophet. He does not have a composite personality for most Christians and Muslims and in particular George is not venerated by Jews at allViddy300 (talk) 06:25, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Diff of change. OhKayeSierra (talk) 06:36, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2018 

message: Please change: 
William Dalrymple, reviewing the literature in 1999, tells us that [[J. E. 
Hanauer]] in his 1907 book Folklore of the Holy Land: Muslim, Christian and Jewish "mentioned a shrine in the village of Beit Jala, beside Bethlehem, which at the time was frequented by Christians who regarded it as the birthplace of St. George and by Jews who regarded it as the burial place of the Prophet Elias. 
William Dalrymple, reviewing the literature in 1999, tells us that J. E. Hanauer in his 1907 book Folklore of the Holy Land: Muslim, Christian and Jewish mentioned a shrine in the village of Beit Jala, beside Bethlehem, which at the time was frequented by Christians who regarded it as the birthplace of St. George and by some Jews who regarded it as the burial place of the Prophet Elijah. 
Comments
(a) the prophet's name is 'Elijah'
(b) it is not a direct quote
(c) I have checked the reference and it has nothing to do with St George. It is correct that there is a shrine that some treated at that time as the birth of the prophet Elijah - though it had no official status in any religion so it is misleading to say 'Jews regarded it' (some Jews perhaps).
The whole section on St George and Elijah needs to be edited down to a note that at some times St George was treated as connected with Elijah, rather than including all this material about Elijah as though it obviously applies to St George. Viddy300 (talk) 06:28, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Diff of change OhKayeSierra (talk) 06:39, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2018 

message: As it happens, George and Mithras, divinity of the Moon and for the Romans is associated with Sol Invictus divinity of the Sun and the invincible sun of the truth of reality and justice and the birth of Jesus and George the Christ and the reincarnation of Saint Nicholas in Santa Claus and Nicola and the bad spirit the soul of the devil demon of children's gifts incarnations George there are sources of St. George who created Christianity there are sources on the internet of all kinds. -- Uhioj (talk) 23:40, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saint George and Mithraism 

message: I've removed  from the article text, since it's disputed and in conflict with sourced content at the Saint George's Day article.  I don't have immediate access to the sources used in that article, but if somebody who does could check and rework this fragment as appropriate that would be appreciated.  Thanks, Wham2001 (talk) 06:24, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saint George's day in England 

message: The opening section of the article contains not a single citation and is quite unclear in which claims it makes are historically verifiable, and which are part of unsupported legends. This badly needs a fix.
:See WP:LEAD - it is fairly clear that nothing of the early history is "historically verifiable", which doesn't exactly mean it is all a legend. Johnbod (talk) 01:40, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the OP.  These claims need citations or should be removed. (It is not clear why Johnbod mentions WP:LEAD - what does Johnbod want the OP to see there?) In general, I don't think the lead is the appropriate place to discuss an article subject's parents anyway: this does not seem like lead material.  Doctormatt (talk) 01:49, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That it is perfectly normal not to have citations in the lead (of course). Reporting tradition is inevitable in this area, and the article is clear that is what they are. Johnbod (talk) 01:53, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is normal to not have citations in the lead as long as the information is cited in the body of the article.  The parents' names (and other information) are not mentioned again in the article, and are therefore completely uncited.  Reporting tradition is fine, but it still needs to be cited: who says this is the tradition? This information needs citations.  Doctormatt (talk) 02:02, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  No sources in the introduction 

message: Information about Saint George 142.116.55.83 (talk) 21:45, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: What is the source for St George being the patron saint of Ukraine, as stated in the article? The best I could find was this page from the website of Ukrainian Greek Catholic church that described him as the patron of Western Ukraine:
 
Borisblue2 (talk) 14:19, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Is St George the patron saint of Ukraine?

message: Can someboy add `Alevism` to the Venerated part of the infobox. Hidirellez is the day of George and Eliah. 46.196.85.168 (talk) 19:20, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition  

message: At the Orthodox Wiki the article on George is entitled "George the Trophy-bearer", though this is not explained in the text, and is absent from the Greek version of the page.  I've been able to find no explanation of this anywhere, in fact.  I assume that in Greek it would be «Γεώργιος ο Τροπαιούχος».  In a poem by Ελλη Παιονίδου (Elli Paionidou), she refers to «Αϊ Γιώργη τον Μαντατοφόρο» (St George the Messenger), but again I can find no explanation of this (it might be significant that the newsletters of various churches dedicated to George are called "Messenger").
Does anyone have any information on this?  Should any or all of it be mentioned in the article here? Bibliosporias (talk) 14:35, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Epithets 

message: I can find a source for the claim that Dacian killed Saint George, but only as a primary source, from a translation of the text itself. Does anyone have a good secondary source that they can find? Tooncool64 (talk) 01:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean Decius and his Decian persecution (250)? Because "Dacian" otherwise refers to the Dacians, an ethnic group. Dimadick (talk) 09:56, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm referring to Dacian (prefect) Tooncool64 (talk) 18:48, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Golden Legend, Saint George and Dacian 

message: Saint_George#Veneration_in_the_Levant says:
:William Dalrymple, who reviewed the literature in 1999, tells us that J. E. Hanauer in his 1907 book Folklore of the Holy Land: Muslim, Christian and Jewish "mentioned a shrine in the village of Beit Jala, beside Bethlehem, which at the time was frequented by Christians who regarded it as the birthplace of George and some Jews who regarded it as the burial place of the Prophet Elias. According to Hanauer, in his day the monastery was "a sort of madhouse. Deranged persons of all the three faiths are taken thither and chained in the court of the chapel, where they are kept for forty days on bread and water, the Eastern Orthodox priest at the head of the establishment now and then reading the Gospel over them, or administering a whipping as the case demands." In the 1920s, according to Tawfiq Canaan's Mohammedan Saints and Sanctuaries in Palestine, nothing seemed to have changed, and all three communities were still visiting the shrine and praying together."
:Dalrymple himself visited the place in 1995. "I asked around in the Christian Quarter in Jerusalem, and discovered that the place was very much alive. With all the greatest shrines in the Christian world to choose from, it seemed that when the local Arab Christians had a problem – an illness, or something more complicated – they preferred to seek the intercession of George in his grubby little shrine at Beit Jala rather than praying at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem or the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem." He asked the priest at the shrine "Do you get many Muslims coming here?" The priest replied, "We get hundreds! Almost as many as the Christian pilgrims. Often, when I come in here, I find Muslims all over the floor, in the aisles, up and down."
Beit Jala mentions a church of Saint Nicholas but nothing about George. 
Could it be that Hanauer and Darlymple mean St. George's Monastery, Al-Khader in Al-Khader which is near Beit Jala?
-- Error (talk) 11:25, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  The interfaith shrine 

message: The last paragraph of St. George and the dragon includes "The name Ascalon was used by Winston Churchill for his personal aircraft ... according to records at Bletchley Park.". Until November 2019 there doesn't appear to have been a supporting citation of BP. The citation added by https://winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour/finest-hour-148/getting-there-churchills-wartime-journeys/   doesn't mention Bletchley Park. Searching Ascalon and LV633 (mentioned by the IWMhttps://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205127156 and various other webpages in addition to Avro York#VIP service) at BP's archiveshttps://bletchleypark.org.uk/our-story/new-to-the-archives/ for doesn't lead to the plane being mentioned. Should the BP mention be kept? Mcljlm (talk) 14:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bletchley Park: Ascalon, Churchill' s personal aircraft: