Talk:Keynes family

message: *The article needs better sourcing for both the family tree and history sections.  Does anyone have suggestions where that might be found.  Eluchil404 14:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: You are disputing that the surname variants are valid. I have researched the "de Keynes" family for more than a year and can trace its roots back to "William de Cahaignes" c1035, sometimes referred to as "Cheney" or "Caineto" with descendents often referred to as Chesney,Caineto or similar. I have also researched the Dakin/Dickin/Deakin/Dicken(s) and most, if not all, descend from their ancestors in Ashbourne or Chelmorton, Derbyshire or Norfolk beforehand. 
In genealogy, there is often a lot of conjecture but I have found connections linking my beliefs through many associated families which have remained connected through the generations. There have certainly been numerous changes in surname from the recent Dakin/Dickin/Dickens to the much older change from "de cahaignes" to "de keynes" and "Cheney"/"Chesney" and other varients.
There may well be individuals with names that are the same as, but not necessarily descended from, the original ancestor.
My source for many of the variants is "History & gazetteer of Derbyshire" (1833) which I have images of but is not in my opinion suitable for inclusion as a "picture" (image) in wikipedia. I would welcome a suggestion on how I might present this as some evidence for quite a few of the name variants.ken 19:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Keynes family

message: I am puzzled by the suggestion that there are no surname derivatives if this indeed the intended placement of this tag! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kdakin (talk • contribs) 19:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Surname derivatives

message: Your source is unfortunately a typical example of very bad C19th genealogy and I regret that for this purpose it is without value. If you look at some authoritative modern sources on surnames - Reaney's "English Surnames" is excellent, meticulously referenced and easy to obtain - you will discover that of the names you claim as being related to Keynes, the only ones that actually are, are the spelling variants of Keynes itelf. All the rest have entirely different origins - which are fully documented and evidenced in Reaney. I am therefore removing them, and must ask you not to replace them UNLESS and UNTIL you can find some references of an equivalent standard on the basis of which to disagree with one of the principal authorities on English surnames.HeartofaDog 14:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Without reading the book you mentioned, it is not possible for me to be sure, but are you also saying that the other derivatives (such as Cockayne) cannot have come from the original "Cahaignes" family or just the (later) (de) Keynes?
ken 16:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Based on Reaney (the one you want is "Dictionary of English Surnames"), I am saying that the names Cockayne (etc) and Cheyney (Chesney, etc)) have nothing to do at any stage either with Keynes etc or with each other. I don't doubt, given the similarities, that there are instances of apparent overlap, but those are almost certain to be clerical or transcription error. I hesitate to get involved at all with Deakin / Dickens / Dawkins etc because there are lots of different origins for these names, which given the nature of surnames, sometimes flow into one another as well. But, to put it politely, I am extremely sceptical about the equation "de Keynes" = "Dakin" and similar. IF you can evidence it from reputable sources (by which I mean "of academic standard", like the Keats-Rohan work you cite: a huge number of bad books have been written about this sort of thing) then well done, but you WILL need to back it up (also remembering yet again No original research, because prima facie it's very implausible. HeartofaDog 18:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed content

message: Since the current list of Keynes's is now just current family members already in the family tree I suggest axing it as redundant.  Dates could be added to the tree if people want, but the information on individual achievements belongs in the seperate articles, IMO.  Eluchil404 15:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Already on :Keynes (disambiguation) anyway. HeartofaDog 15:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Keynes's