Talk:Palantír

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Palantir. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 October 21#Palantir until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  — Rhododendrites talk \\ 15:02, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Palantir" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Why do we care what Paul Kocher, Joseph Pearce, Tom Shippey or anyone else thinks about this?  Speculation by anyone not named J.R.R. Tolkien shouldn't be part of this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.23.235.4 (talk) 17:41, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ironic use of 'speculation' when that's what the palantir supports. To answer the question, these are major Tolkien scholars, the most reliable secondary sources. Without them, the topic would not be seen to be notable, i.e. they are essential for the article. Tolkien is the primary source, meaning that he can be used for facts but does not establish notability. Chiswick Chap (talk) 05:59, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  remove speculation 

message: The opening paragraph claims that the palantíri could be used to see "whether past or future." But I'm not able to find any source for that. Could anyone confirm if this actually come from Tolkien, please? Thanks! RR (talk) 05:52, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Silmarillion says only that "those who looked therein might perceive in them things far off, whether in place or in time." ("Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age"). This is ambiguous about whether the future might be included. Unfinished Tales says "scenes or figures in distant places, or in the past." ("The Palantíri") which seems to exclude the future. This differs from the Mirror of Galadriel where it is explicitly stated that future things may be glimpsed, though they may not come to be. Perhaps there was a confusion between the two. I'll edit the text now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:43, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "whether past or future" is still there in the opening paragraph. Should I fix it by myself, or can someone more expert of the topic fix it? Meridiana solare (talk) 22:21, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 02:54, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can a palantír show the future? 

message: A palantír (/pæˈlænˌtɪər/; in-universe pl. palantíri) is one of several indestructible crystal balls from J. R. R. Tolkien's epic-fantasy novel The Lord of the Rings.
By the time of The Lord of the Rings at the end of the Third Age, a few palantíri remained in existence.
I thought the first quote says they're "indestructible". LOL  Cloudswrest (talk) 16:26, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  One word: "lost". A stone could be buried in a catastrophe or lost at sea. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:28, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

text: Interesting to know, by the way, that it has a standard English pronunciation. —Tamfang (talk) 05:53, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indestructible??

message: I see I meant filicide, though I did not notice that it was a Shippley list, as opposed to a general one, so I can't quibble on the first two bones of contention, but it does matter, as the result of the deception would have rid Gondor of Faramir as well, ending the line of the Stewards in Gondor.Halbared (talk) 19:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Maybe so, and you're forgiven for not noticing the attribution, but we editors obviously can't construct an argument ourselves for such a table. If I come across a source that goes over this ground (presumably it'd be someone bravely picking an academic bone with Tom Shippey...) then I'll consider adding to the table. There is an argument against doing even that, which is that the table expresses exactly one scholarly opinion. Tables that just organize data can reasonably assemble materials, but in the case of a logical argument, any construction is dangerous. Safer would be an annotation ("Note 3: Scholar X adds that ...[23]"), perhaps. My tuppence 'orth. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:09, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Filicide

message: Has anyone (other than me) suggested that Tolkien might have been inspired by H. G. Wells's 1897 short story "The Crystal Egg"? Narky Blert (talk) 19:51, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:34, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: The Crystal Egg