Talk:Larry Davis (born 1966)

message: The article gives this case entirely from the point of view of the prosecution: police came to arrest Larry Davis on murder charges and a shootout began. The defense contention, that Larry Davis acted in self defense when corrupt police came to assassinate him, is only mentioned but given no weight at all. This is inappropriate because the jury agreed with the defense view, not the prosecution's, in the first 3 of Larry Davis' 4 trials. Most importantly, Larry Davis was ACQUITTED of charges of attempted murder of the police in the raid.
I tried to correct where I could, but the entire article is based only on articles from the NY Times, so I'd have to use a credit card to check the sources (most of those articles are only available to registered users, and you must give credit card info to register)! 
Zahzuhzaz (talk) 13:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at previous versions (back in October it looked far more balanced). And I would be careful about a "both sides" presentation. If he robbed and killed the drug dealers on behalf of the cops, with a weapon they provided, neither side's story would have been close to the truth. Jd2718 (talk) 13:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree that the article gives the case entirely from the view of the prosecution.  I used the NY Times coverage to build out the article as the only reliable and complete source available.  The Times has always been very balanced where crimes and criminal trials are concerned, and I bent over backwards to be the same.  The Times archives from 1987 to the present are now free as far as I understand, try it, but either way I think editors have an obligation to read the material cited by reliable sources before altering what the  sources say.  --CliffC (talk) 16:35, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The article...

message: Starting with his birthdate to his conversion to Islam to where he is now, this is a biography of someone with one major event in his life. It would have been better had you proposed the move and waited for some discussion. Can you move it back? Jd2718 (talk) 13:48, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A good point of comparison would be Kitty Genovese. Jd2718 (talk) 14:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That was helpful, thank you. Jd2718 (talk) 16:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move back to [[Larry Davis]] 

message: The Background section provides the prosecution's account of the background to the shooting (which two juries rejected), but not the defense's account (which the jury accepted). Zahzuhzaz (talk) 17:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "Background" section POV tag

message: In the sentence 
:"Larry Davis (born May 28, 1966), who changed his name to Adam Abdul-Hakeem in 1989, shot six New York City police officers on November 19, 1986 when they raided his sister's Bronx, New York apartment, allegedly to arrest him on charges of murdering five drug dealers." 
the word "allegedly" as currently positioned is incorrect because it is undisputed that the police were there to arrest him.  I suggest that the phrase "for allegedly murdering" has similar meaning to "on charges of murdering" and uses "allegedly", so would you consent to a change to 
:"Larry Davis (born May 28, 1966), who changed his name to Adam Abdul-Hakeem in 1989, shot six New York City police officers on November 19, 1986 when they raided his sister's Bronx, New York apartment, to arrest him for allegedly murdering five drug dealers." 
? --CliffC (talk) 02:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That is correct.  I support the new wording. --Knulclunk (talk) 02:22, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the word "allegedly" from the lead. The officers were there to arrest him on murder charges, correct? If there are sources to the contraire, lets present them. Thanks, --70.109.223.188 (talk) 14:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "allegedly" in first sentence 

message: Originally posted there some time ago, reposted today.  I think it's chilling.  Don't ask me to interpret any of it, I'm a civilian.  --CliffC (talk) 03:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copied from a police newsgroup  

message: I'm not sure what the evidence for the claim that "it is undisputed that the police were there to arrest him" made by an editor above is. In fact a jury believed that the police had come to murder him, and acquitted Davis on the grounds that he acted in self defense:The defense apparently won its case because it had convinced the jurors that the raid was staged to mask an attempt to assassinate Mr. Davis for his knowledge of police drug corruption and that he "quite properly" fired in self-defense.NYT 11-21-88
The lead should at a minimum reflect that there are conflicting claims (Davis was also acquitted of the murders the police claimed to have been there to arrest him for. 
It has also has reported that police claim to have been at the apartment to "question" Davis, not arrest him:Last November, at least 30 police officers surrounded a building in the South Bronx where, they say, they hoped to question a man about the murders, two weeks earlier, of four reputed drug dealers in an apartment. NYTime October 12, 1987Officers had gone to the Bronx building to question Davis in connection with the slayings. The Associated Press, December 8, 1986, "Reports: Davis Gun Linked to Murders, Cop Shooting"
The Nov. 19, 1986 shoot-out, in which six police officers were wounded but Davis escaped unharmed from a Bronx apartment, set off the manhunt. Police said they had gone to the apartment to question Davis about the deaths of the alleged drug dealers. assoc Press, March 4, 1988, "Jury Acquits Davis In Shootings Of Four Suspected Drug Dealers"
Police acknowldge they were there to question, not arrest:A lawyer for Mr. Davis, William M. Kunstler, said in an interview last Thursday and has maintained in court, that what the police have called an attempt to question Mr. Davis at his sister's apartment was in fact a raid meant to kill him in order to suppress his client's knowledge of police involvement in drug sales in the Bronx.
Mr. Kunstler said, and the police have acknowledged, that although Mr. Gray provided a positive identification of Mr. Davis within hours of the incident at Jerome Avenue, his client was not named a suspect in any crime, and no warrant for his arrest was issued until after the Nov. 19 shootout at his sister's apartment.
On Friday, officials from the Bronx District Attorney's office and the Police Department deflected questions about why no warrant had been issued for Mr. Davis's arrest after the Jerome Avenue incident. Each agency referred questions to the other.
A senior police official, who asked not to be identified, said no charges were immediately brought against Mr. Davis because "once you move to introduce an accusatory instrument you lose the benefit of being able to talk to that person." The official said Mr. Kunstler, in drawing attention to these questions, was "really trying to create confusion in the case" and said prosecutors must "stick to the simple issues of guilt or innocence on the individual charges" against Mr. Davis. NYTimes, October 18, 1987
Ultimately, a jury did not believe the police had gone there to arrest Davis. Why would Wikipedia give the police version, when that version ios dispouted at best, and likely false, based on trial outcomes? Boodlesthecat (talk) 18:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for providing more material about this case. I have tried to copy edit for NPOV. --72.209.11.186 (talk) 22:29, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Definitely not "undisputed" that police were there to arrest Davis in shootout

message: 5th citation is invalid. Link is to a non functioning website.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.105.223 (talk) 21:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been replaced, thanks.  --CliffC (talk) 22:57, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Broken citation

message: Per the main article, he was murdered on Feb 20, 2008, by "another inmate, Luis Rosado, 42." That would have given Mr. Rosado a birthdate in 1966.
First, there doesn't seem to be any update more recent than his grand jury indictment back in July, 2008. More interestingly the NYS inmate locator web site doesn't show any Luis Rosado born in 1966. 
	ROSADO, LUIS 	MALE 	06/12/1981 	
	ROSADO, LUIS 	MALE 	02/02/1939 
	ROSADO, LUIS 	MALE 	06/24/1986 
	ROSADO, LUIS 	MALE 	12/15/1946 
Anyone know better? Thanks
wiki-ny-2007 (talk) 05:47, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Google News finds this from February 2009: Prisoner from Bronx guilty of killing another inmate.  It doesn't say where Rosado was headed next, though.  It's amusing that some sources still call him Davis's "assassin", as though it took some mysterious police faction 21 years of plotting to get to him.  Best, CliffC (talk) 18:52, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Status of his alleged assassin? 

message: Can someone tell me how this guy is notable?  I dont know how to nominate an article for deletion, can someone do that?Racingstripes (talk) 04:37, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Assuming you are not trolling, the best way to find out why Davis is notable is to find out for yourself by reading the article and its sources.  You would also have to figure out how to propose the article for deletion on your own, since most people here don't have time to waste.  --CliffC (talk) 16:38, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable

message: The Huffington Post mocks Wikipedia for having an article on himBamler2 (talk) 21:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? Not that it matters, but why do you think the simple statement "He even has a Wikipedia page" mocks Wikipedia? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/len-levitt/christopher-dorner-copkil_b_2661925.html --CliffC (talk) 01:17, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Huffington Post

message: This section could use some expanding.  "Davis released the two visitors and sent the hostage's husband out to pick up food,"  What visitors?  What hostage?  That information isn't anywhere in the article. 68.156.95.34 (talk) 09:09, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Search and capture" 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:21, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion