Talk:Anti-French sentiment in the United States/Archive 3

message: Apparently some feel that certain sorts of documentation is too insulting to be encyclopedic, perhaps even violating the "no personal attacks" policy. If this is so I'll need at least a dozen articles removed in their entirety ;) What it comes down to, IMO, is Factual accuracy and NPOV. Some (prob. most or all) people are insulted by the truth, a fact I know quite well. The reason I love encyclopedias is that they are (supposedly ;) impartial places where I can look up the wacky stuff near and dear to my heart which would elsewhere be censored as too insulting/disturbing/offensive. If we begin censoring useful, factual, NPOV material from the wiki, I think we'll need to substantially alter the project goals as well, and might well wander into the realm of Newspeak. Just a thought. Sam [Spade] 20:33, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: To explain what I think Sam means: documentating that a person or a group make "personal attack", even copying the attack themselves, is by no means an endorsement of them. It's just factual information. It's like when we say that Khomeiny called the US the "Great Satan". David.Monniaux 20:38, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. And I am offended by the personal attack of someone calling the USA a "great satan", being american. But its encyclopedic, and should be here. What if someone wants to know why some americans (or english speakers generally) dislike the french? I have heard ALOT of anti-french jokes BTW, and heard them more often, not less, over-seas. In fact the only time I saw a real act of descrimination was against 2 frenchmen, not in the US but in Amsterdam. Anyways, this is nothing so very new, there are several articles w similar listings. Sam [Spade] 21:25, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Encyclopedic 

message: I removed the following text from the article--
"The U.S. media's encouragement of Francophobia rings a bell for those who have watched Michael Moore's film Canadian Bacon – in which anti-Canadian feelings in the US are deliberately stirred up by television sequences."
I felt that it endorsed the POV that U.S. media encourage Francophobia, not to mention endorsing the POV of Candian Bacon that the U.S. is irrationally xenophobic. Meelar 20:47, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I probably shouldn't have put it in - sorry. It just came to me when I was reading that section and recollecting watching FOX News last year (what a scary station). Zoney 22:01, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: If it helps, I agree with you on that one ;) Meelar 01:48, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Canadian Bacon

message: Complete (and neutral I hope) French translation finished and saved: fr:ressentiment anti-français aux États-Unis. with some editors note. Marc Mongenet 21:48, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I translated it into English using  and I found you to have done a very good job. The only problems are I saw were ones with the English article, that the fact of American anti-French attitudes being largely a carry-over from British historical anti-French attitudes, as well as those from English speakers generally is not addressed (it should be the focus really). I have never seen any French person treated rudely or given poor service in the USA (we almost never see French people where I live in any case) but when I was overseas I heard anti-French jokes or conversations far more often than in the US, and even saw two Frenchmen given poor service by the Dutch shopkeeper, and jokes made of them in their presence (in English, and largely insulting their poor English skills). This is personal research, and has no place in the article of course, but I know that anti-French sentiment is neither something unique to Americans, nor has its origins here. The start of the problem is the title, which should be a redirect to "francophobia" or "anti-French", a larger article of which this would be a section of. Sam [Spade] 22:26, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The english article is (for me) not very clear with the French toast-German toast affair. It says that only the hot dog invention was successful But it also says that French toast replaced German toast. So, if it wasn't successful, what it a French toast toast (or what was it at that time)?Marc Mongenet 00:01, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: This business with the names of food is foolishness, you correctly summed it up with "gammineries". I never saw anyone selling or asking for "freedom fries", but rather it was done in Washington where food is served to politicians. It was an exciting fact for the media, but little substance. What the war has done is enlarge and enbolden previous francophobia, rather than creating many new opinions. The foolishness w the "chips of liberty" and "toast of freedom" should not be overemphasized ;) Sam [Spade] 00:15, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, it's «gamineries», not «gammineries». My dictionnary wasn't providing a good definition for "gimmickry", so I summed it the best I could. But I still have a problem. What is a "German toast"? Marc Mongenet 00:27, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It is almost always French toast, and it is bread dipped in egg, and fried. Here are some recipes . Sam [Spade] 00:41, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

text: Wouldn't an American francophobia section in a francophobia article take a disproportionate amount of place? Not because american are more francophobe, but because they seem to have more gripes. I am not sure the POV of americans, described in this article, can/should be mixed with the POV of Dutchmen, Italians, Swiss... I feel it's already big, interesting and complicated enough, with only the americans POV on France. Marc Mongenet 00:01, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree mainly, but then we ignore these other important aspects (unfriendly opinions of Dutchmen, Italians, Swiss, etc...) as well as the historical British roots of American (and other english-speaking) francophobia. Sam [Spade] 00:06, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Is american francophobia specific enough to warrant a specific article (like Anti-Semitism)? Maybe the fact that an article was spontaneously created speaks for itself? Or maybe not. Marc Mongenet 00:20, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: French translation