Talk:Royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom for use in Scotland

message: Someone that knows something about heraldry needs to write an opening section to this article that explains what the difference between these two versions are, and what each are used for.  The current opening "Since the uniting of the crowns of England and Scotland..." is quite abrupt.   --JW1805 22:33, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: If there's no objection, I'll be moving this page to "Royal Coat of Arms for Scotland" in line with my recent edits. Doops |  talk 08:09, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: page move

message: I'm wondering about the statement in the article: 
:The Act of Union 1707 guaranteed the rights of Scotland to have their own version of the British coat of arms.  
The text  of the act (Article 24) has: 
:...that a Seal in Scotland after the Union be alwayes kept and made use of in all things relating to private Rights or Grants, which have usually passed the Great Seal of Scotland, and which only concern Offices, Grants, Commissions, and private Rights within the Kingdom...And that the Privy Seal, Signet, Casset, Signet of the Justiciary Court, Quarter Seal, and Seals of Courts now used in Scotland be Continued, but that the said Seals be altered and adapted to the state of the Union as Her Majesty shall think fit.
Is a Seal the same thing as a coat of arms?  Also, the text says that a Scottish seal will exist, but doesn't technically say that it must be different from the UK seal.  Her Majesty could have thought fit to "alter and adapt" the Scottish seal so that it was identical to the UK one.  Is it necessary to clarify this in the article, or is that just nitpicking? --JW1805 17:45, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In response to your second question -- true, the act doesn't say the Scottish version has to be different; but neither does the article. :) The article claims that two versions are mandated, as indeed they are. As for your first question -- well, a seal could have a coat of arms on it-- but according to the Great Seal of Scotland article, it doesn't. Huh. Disappointing. So maybe we have to cut that sentence? Doops |  talk 02:59, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: Something needs to be done to trim down the various articles that contain so much duplicated information.  We now have:
*Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom
*Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom for use in Scotland
*Royal Standard of Scotland
*Royal Coat of Arms of Scotland
I'm not saying they shouldn't be separate articles, but there has to be a better way to present this information to avoid the current situation where they all contain the same images and/or the same sections (like the "Law" section).--JW1805 22:19, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion 

message: The Scots beast has "tufts of hair and a lion-tail" and split hooves of a goat, not smooth horse hooves. This goat-lion corresponds with Chimera goat-lion, sister of Keltos ("the Celt"). She was daughter of Echidna Kelto viper-dragon , daughter of Brettanos of Gaul.
- Diodorus 5.24.: J.Fontenrose "Python" U.Cal. Cam. 1959.p.98.  Chimera battled Greeks in Lydia and Lycia in Homer's day and became Mount Olympias volcano in Asia Minor.  Kelto claimed that Chimera was equal to Athena war-goddess, and Zeus flung Kelto into Mount Etna for her impudence.
It seems Zeus was mistook...
Philostorgius writes: I checked the Fontenrose reference, but he does not mention the Chimera on page 98. The only mention of Chimera in the whole book is on page i, in a quotation from Milton's Paradise Lost. Fontenrose does refer to “Chimaira” several times, as the daughter of Echidna, daughter of Keto. Diodorus nowhere in Bk. 5 refers to any of these characters.
It is not feasible to associate Chimera with Unicorn: both have elements of goat and lion, but in different places:  "Chimaera who breathed raging fire, [320] a creature fearful, great, swift footed and strong, who had three heads, one of a grim-eyed lion, another of a goat, and another of a snake, a fierce dragon; in her forepart she was a lion; in her hinderpart, a dragon; and in her middle, a goat, breathing forth a fearful blast of blazing fire." < The Homeric Hymns and Homerica with an English Translation by Hugh G. Evelyn-White.[Hesiod's] Theogony. Cambridge, MA.,Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1914. 319> The standard descriptions of Unicorn vary over the centuries, but in late medieval Scotland, he had only one head, of a horse, and a lion's tail. Whatever Unicorn's body parts were, his unique feature is his single horn, which distinguishes him completely from Chimera.Philostorgius (talk) 10:48, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  origin of supporter beast 

message: I've moved this article to Royal Coat of Arms in Scotland, as the old title was confusing. Astrotrain 22:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, let me get this straight: you think that moving the article about the UK arms to "Royal Coat of Arms in Scotland" (sic) is going to reduce confusion with the separate article about the Scottish arms: Royal Coat of Arms of Scotland. (If the casual reader cannot spot the difference then I am not surprised: compare in with of). --Mais oui! 01:38, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Ta. --Mais oui! 14:53, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talk page move 

message: That would seem to be questionable as regards to a) being better, and b) being discussed on this page.  In particular, please clarify these assertions that the arms are "separate" (and at least spell that correctly next time you revert).  All conventional heraldic wisdom seems to be that:  these are the arms of the United Kingdom;  and they appear differently in Scotland, and in England (and elsewhere), these being different heraldic jurisdictions, rather than there being any suggestion that they are in any sense different arms of different "things".  Alai 17:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "restore better version per talk"