Talk:High school subcultures

message: Is it just me or is that horribly PoV? Preppies are described as "esteemed through the display of fine clothing and expensive tastes in cars and the like. Preppies are despised by none. Overall the best group to be in, though by definition, not everybody can be a preppy." Is it just me or does this -blam- really sound condesending? I personally loath preppies as much as the jocks, because they're just as arrogant...just like the writer of this particular section. The other cliques mentioned in that section aren't exactly neutral, either..
* there...changed
** neutrality is overrated anyway Chris 04:02, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cliques Section WTF

message: As has been noted above, this article does not cite any actual sociology or psychology studies on this topic, so it is essentially original research. And I'm pretty sure there have been plenty of sociology or psychology studies on this topic. The "Examples" section in particular is of great concern to me, and additionally there is an overwhelming U.S. bias throughout the entire article.
I am also not sure if this article is allocated appropriately, as there are other articles floating around like Clique, List of subcultures, etc. where this information may better belong.—jiy (talk) 20:58, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is unencyclopedic in its present state 

message: This is how high school was when I went there in the late 70's, and early 80's.  My nieces and nephews tell me their stories, and nothing has changed.  This is just how it is.  It may not be fit for an encyclopedia, but it's just the cold hard truth.
1982 Chicago
PS  If you want to make some changes, please don't delete anything you disagree with.  Just put your comments in, and leave the others be.
OK, I guess you are going to rip out the subcultures, and put them somewhere else.  That's for the good of Wikipedia.  I am going to leave you with a quote from Madeline Albright about women.  "Those who believe that women would do a better job running the world clearly forgot how it was in high school."
:Sure this is the truth, if you consider corny comedy movies an encyclopedic reference. This article is a joke, and this isnt how it is in my school, not even close.--The Corsair 03:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is cruely the truth 

message: Please provide reliable sources for information here, specifically for each and every term included.  I plan on doing a large scale "pruning", along the lines of what I already did for Secondary education in the United States.  If somebody indicates that they are actively researching this, and wishes more time, please indicate here, so I'll back off, and give you a fair opportunity.  For now, I can tolerate some of the less harmful stereotypes (e.g. the ones not involving ethnic/religious attacks), but ultimately everythning needs verification (not just that somebody used the word, but that it's widely used, and has the meaning we say it does).  --Rob 22:09, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * Why don't you help source the material? -- JJay 02:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * First, I'll say you did a great job with sourcing (again), and have avoided a need of mass removal.  I do go to great lengths to source material that is signficant, relevant, likely true, and likely to have relialbe sources.  I don't think stereotyping fits this criteria.  So, my sourcing attentions are directed elsewhere.  Also, I don't cleanup/improve as many education related articles as I used to, as I've grown a little frustrated at article creators who don't make any effort in their creations, and I'm less inclined to improve things after them.  I've made more effot lately to try and get the editors who add info to actually add their sources, as generally they aught to know.  --Rob 05:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

text: * Ok, that's cool. I need more time to source all the terms, probably a week or so. But they are very widely used and if I can't verify through a good source I'll remove them myself. It would be nice if people added references when adding material to an article, but one of the issues here is that we already have individual articles on most of the terms. That sort of gives them de facto verifiability. -- JJay 05:48, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unverifiable information will be removed 

message: Links with Scene (youth), particularly Youth culture - should this be merged with Youth culture? -- Paul foord 09:54, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Current placement of the list is poor (with too much bolding) - it would be better placed at the end of the article or given the length of the list a separate list created. The format and placement of the list unbaslances the article. The article should probably go merge into Youth culture, another relatively poorly written article. It is in fact a subset of that. -- Paul foord 23:27, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Edited to address some of above, note some of the articles that this should refer to need some work. -- Paul foord 04:42, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Your edits seem good to me. However, I don't think the merge idea is appropriate at this time as many of the terms are very specific to the school environment and can not translate to youth culture.  I also need to finish sourcing the article before any change can be contemplated. -- JJay 09:36, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links with Scene (youth) and Youth culture 

message: Could you please explain why you removed the terms from this article without discussion. Particularly given that I am working on providing references for the article. -- JJay 22:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Current placement of the list is poor (with too much bolding) - it would be better placed at the end of the article or given the length of the list a separate list created. The format and placement of the list unbaslances the article. The article should probably go merge into Youth culture, another relatively poorly written article. It is in fact a subset of that. -- Paul foord 23:27, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Edited to address some of above, note some of the articles that this should refer to need some work. -- Paul foord 04:42, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Your edits seem good to me. However, I don't think the merge idea is appropriate at this time as many of the terms are very specific to the school environment and can not translate to youth culture.  I also need to finish sourcing the article before any change can be contemplated. -- JJay 09:36, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Separate list

message: I'm moving this to talk page as I don't think ethnic groupings qualify as a national or international subculture. -- JJay 04:30, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethnicities

message: I don't see enough wrong with the article for it to need a cleanup request at the top. There are seem small typo and grammar type errors, but what? --  Mac Davis] ☢ ญƛ. 07:57, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unverifiable information, highly stereotypical.
"track jacket jews" is pretty funny.  does this have any possibility of a citation anywhere? Like even urban dictionary?
--67.161.93.159 08:14, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup request

message: Whoever wrote this article has been watching Mean Girls too many times. This isn't even close to NPOV. This needs to be cleaned up, fast.
A lot of adults in the theater were laughing, but my nieces didn't think it was funny.  It was like a documentary to them.
:Send them to a new school, then. Alot of places arent like this. This article is something from a satire movie or videogame. (The nerd pic is from the Sims, isnt it...) Oh, and please sign your comments..--The Corsair 03:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mean Girls 

message: This article only talks about "high school" subcultures. What about middle school and college? This whole idea of having jocks, nerds, preps, and punks eating at different lunch tables starts in middle or late elementary school. Some of these cliques can be found in college, too. I made a new article called "Adolescent stereotypes." It is the same text as this article, edited to contain references to middle and junior high school. Labeling and joining cliques is not strictly limited to high school.
: Sorry but high school is the most important and that is the focus of this article. You should never redirect a page like this without discussion. Youth culture may be what you are looking for. Also please sign your posts. -- JJay 02:31, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirected 

message: Much as I agree the article is a total mess, if it were only tidied up and the rubbish was taken out it would be great. Consequently I have done some work on the first few sections - the change is a little dramatic if you compare it but it is required if it is to get cleaned up. --BenyG 23:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * You may have taken out too much. It seems a little spare now and some of those details may have been important. Keep working on it though. -- JJay 01:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't give up on it

message: I am a high school student and find that this compilation is accurate in most cases, despite the fact that many of these subcultures are absent from my high school (which has an enrollment of around 250).  But now to the point:  what about the devoutly religious students?  I know that they are a group here in Arkansas, but is it the same way other places?  Should they be included on the list?  Thudgens 04:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious 

message: This article is actually somewhat useful, as most of the stereotypes described here DO exist in some capacity, particularly in the US and UK.  However, maybe that should be added to the title of the article, so that this is clearer.
Also, it needs cleanup, and there are too many broad generalizations that should be addressed... for instance, saying that most female athletes have older brothers, which may be entirely untrue and was only true in the author's own experience.  Fisheromen 03:04, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Has got to be one of the funniest and uncyclopedic things I've read in wikipedia, it presents these groups in the eyes of a teenager, however that's not to say this article is incorrect, in fact most, if not all, of this article is fact. Lordofchaosiori 23:27, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, stereotypes contain a great deal of stupidity. And, please, sign your comments, even if you want to be anonymous, someone could find out who wrote whatever it is you say with the history.. --The Corsair 03:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're an asshole -- how's that for a stereotype. Sheesh. -- Chris 19:15, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This article...

message: in my high school the drug dealers sold drugs to all the other groups.  therefore overlapping.  
seriously tho the labels and groups section seems far too tedious and long to me.  if a source can be found that would lump these all into a reasonable number of categories, and then listed under the categories, i think it would help this article in its presentation.Lenn0r 00:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: another overlap group

message: this destroys any credibility this wiki even attempts to establish. I can't believe it wasn't quick-deleted when it was first made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.115.40.127 (talk • contribs) 
The original list of subcultures was much better, but this is NOT the place for such detail.  These stereotypes do exist, but a general view of them would be much better than what has been, and is currently present.  Stating that there are problems because of the cliques is essential, but the way it is now is laughable.
This is the worst article on wikipedia.  Its tone makes it seem that a person is a 'nerd', or a 'dork', or a jock.  These are labels and with everything, there are degrees.  The 'overlap' is ridiculous also.  Any person who does not know the truth about American (all this article talks about) high schools would be seriously misled by the article.  It should be deleted.  64.149.153.125 00:41, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  worst article on wikipedia 

message: This would make a good article for Uncyclopedia, considering 80% of their articles are crap! 205.188.116.6 07:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncyclopedia... 

message: This article shows why my generation is DOOMED!!! 205.188.116.6 22:51, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doomed 

message: Delete this putrid pile of bullcrap. Seriously, this has no  relevance. I stumbled upon this piece of crap after searching for something else. This is beyond retarded. This sounds like the sort of drivvle some  frustrated, mentally retarded 14 year old would create. It reeks of idiocy. DELETE THIS PILE OF CRAP!
: Emotional much? -- Chris 19:15, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is beyond gay. 

message: This article only identifies white-majority subcultures, totally excluding other races. Basically, only white groups are ever mentioned.
Ok. 1. If you know some stereotypes from other races, feel free to add them. That's what Wiki's all about.
2. Try not to cuss. You have no idea how many kids run around Wikipedia everyday. Dion 07:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is so racist 

message: Having lived in several countries, and being involved in education for many years, I can sum up this article as it stands to being a list of the larger cliques in white middle class American High Schools.  It is also divisive and discriminatory, and fails to be NPOV.  Johnpf 04:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary of problems 

message: It had too many pastel boxes (for verifibility, POV, etc), so it's been shrunk into a list. Will (Glaciers melting in the dead of night) 12:21, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed descriptions of each clique 

message: Why is "greasers" in the list? And who replaced Hip Hop with "Gang members"? being a gang member is not a high school subculture, since real "gangster" kids would be in juvenile. It's not fitting for this article, therefore it should be replaced back with whatever term that preceded it. 
Edit: To the guy above my comment, we didn't forget about gang members, a person implied something similar before and I replaced it with something more appropriate. There's a BIG difference between a real gang member and a poser who only imitates what a stereotypical thug would dress and act like. Don't encourage them by calling them gangsters.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bélancourt (talk • contribs) 17:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is ignorant 

message: It might be better if this article were retitled "high school subculture in the USA". You cannot have an article with global coverage called "high school subculture" as such terminology is not used globally. From my UK viewpoint "highschool subculture" is a term which relates exclusively to the USA (and possibly Canada). In the UK our senior schools are generally known as secondary schools but we would never talk about "secondary school subculture" or even "school subculture", though we would use the terms "youth culture" and "youth subculture", both of which are already the subject of Wikipedia articles. We would however never use the term "highschool subculture" to talk about the subculture in UK secondary schools. In any case many of the terms used in this article (or at least the ones I know about in the UK, such as chav, Goth, emo, etc) are not confined to school pupils. Many of them leave school at 16 but they still belong to the same subcultures after they've left school. Alternatively perhaps this article should be abandoned altogether and the relevant sections should be included in the youth culture and youth subculture articles. You could instead just have a simple listing of articles under the heading "High school subculture in the USA". Dahliarose 10:29, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Globalisation 

message: This article made me laugh. Whoever changed it really has no clue about the sub-cultures in school. For example, the definition for alternative kids, truly belongs in the definition of indie kids. Not to mention that this is a very biased article. I believe the article name should be changed to High-school stereotypes/cliques, some, like nerd, are stereotypes, whereas indie or others may be true cliques. Interpolarity 23:55, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name Change? 

message: This makes me laugh... 
Actually....not just laugh...
It makes me crack up... 
Its funny how all the cliques are described....
Also..How they named ALL these was funny... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by *Kiki*Krazy* (talk • contribs) 00:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  funny... 

message: This article has been redirected to Youth subculture because it duplicated much of the content in that article (and also duplicated content in List of youth subcultures. Another reason is that the High school subcultures article was poorly-written, mostly unencyclopedic and United States-centric. If you feel that there is some content worth saving, please add it to the appropriate section in the Youth subculture article. Spylab 00:00, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The consensus was to merge content. I see little to no content overlap here, so a redirection is effectively a WP:deletion by redirection. There was no consensus to do that. Wbm1058 (talk) 19:16, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have again redirected this unencyclopedic article to youth subculture because it duplicated much of the content in that article (and also duplicated content in List of youth subcultures. Other reasons are that the High school subcultures article was poorly written, US-centric and full of unreferenced opinions (other than parts of the list that unnecessarily duplicated List of youth subcultures). If you feel that there is some referenced and relevant content worth saving, please add it to the appropriate section in the youth subculture article or to list of subcultures.Spylab (talk) 04:11, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Reason for redirect to Youth subculture