Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life/Archive 7

message: I have Google News email each day with a digest containing all news stories about whales. Today it informed of a discovery of a new (extinct) species - Eobalaenoptera harrisoni - I will add a spot of information about this work at the appropriate place. However I am a little unsure about where that place is - there is a genus Balaenoptera and families Neobalaenidae and Balaenopteridae (the latter contains Balaenoptera genus). Can anyone tell me what the prefix eo- means in this context? Is it possible for me to say where this animal, which died out millions of year ago, fits into the modern taxonomy. (At minimum it was a baleen whale, but that only takes us down to suborder level). Pcb21| Pete 22:10, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Took me a bit of Googling to get the right combo:  Good answer at The Student Nurse Forum: eo- is 'dawn, early (eobacterium)'. - UtherSRG 22:18, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: A follow up: Eos is the Titan Goddess of dawn in Greek mythology. When in doubt, ask the Greeks or Romans. *grins* - UtherSRG 02:20, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: All animals, no matter when they died out fit into the "modern" taxonomy.--Oldak Quill 08:34, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I am able to more clear now, armed with Uther's helpful responses. Should I treat Eobaleaenoptera as the same genus as Balaenoptera (with eo merely meaning old or extinct) as the popular press appears to do "The whale is like today's Blue Whale". Or is it more strict - different word, different genus. Thanks. Pcb21| Pete 09:54, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: New word, new genus. I'd place it close to Balaenoptera for now with a note that it was recently discovered and named (as I'm sure you would do anyway) so that its placement can be considered in flux. - UtherSRG 11:11, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: It may only be placeable to the suborder. If it has been extinct for a long time, the modern families may only have evolved their separation subsequent to its extinction. If so, then it would normally be ascribed to a fossil family within the suborder. Presumably the fossil family, if applicable, hasn't been named yet? - MPF 17:51, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. - UtherSRG 18:01, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: Quite possible. It died out 14 million years ago (cetaceans are about 50 million years old). Unfortunately I can't be sure because there are only press release sources (see e.g. http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-va--newwhale0614jun14,0,1047694.story?coll=dp-headlines-virginia) - the science is in latest issue of the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, to which I do not have access. Pcb21| Pete 20:36, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Check your other cetacean info... they may say when the various speciations happened, which would give you a possible placement for the newbie. - UtherSRG 20:41, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, I have a book that might well help. Secondly I just re-checked - I do have access to that journal but that issue is not online yet - not surprising given the press release has just gone out... should be available in a week or so. Pcb21| Pete 20:45, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Fruits of labour now available at Eobalaenoptera harrisoni. Pcb21| Pete 09:54, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: What does eo- mean?

message: This seems to contravene several principles of ToL articles 
*it is alaphabetical, not taxonomic
*listing is a mixture of Maori and English, this is English wikipedia, so listing should give English name with Maori alternative (or without -see history of list of Korean birds)
*many links are incorrect
Any views - I'm reluctant to run amok on this page myself since I don't know the region. jimfbleak 17:54, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I realised that just after I pressed "Save page". For "Uther", read "Jim". Tannin
* Takapu (Gannet) Sula serrator - I'll go back to this and fix
* Taranui (Caspian Tern) - I've fixed this
* Tarapiroe (Black-fronted Tern)
Richard's Pipit although linked correctly, is not shown by the name by which it is known everywhere except presumably NZ. I'm not going to make a big thing of this, it's not even my hemisphere, but I thought I should flag it up. I did think of replacing it with the ITIS listing, but the editing is too difficult for a European. Jim
OK Jim. I started sorting the list. I've left it in worse state than it was when I started, but I think I've made enough of a start that if we chip away at it, we can finish the job before too long. BTW, in working on it, I started to see more examles of the things that you were taking about above. I fixed a few of them, lots more to go. Cheers, Tannin 11:02, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

text: Hi Tannin - looking at this makes me wonder, is your photo at Richard's Pipit (Anthus richardi, recently split from A. novaeseelandiae) this, or an Australasian Pipit (A. novaeseelandiae sensu stricto)? - MPF 16:51, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

text: Damn it, MPF, I was flat out deciding it was a pipit, never mind the finer points. :) Those brownish grassland birds - there are about half a dozen of them - are hard! It would be A. novaeseelandiae, no doubt, as it was taken ony a few miles from Ballarat. Until now, I wasn't aware there was a difference. My field guides say "Australian(Richard's) Pipit" and I never thought to wonder why. Tannin 07:56, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Tannin - thanks; I fear it may not be quite so simple, as although A. richardi breeds in Asia, it winters in Australia. So if your pic was taken between October-March, the possibility of A. richardi remains. Could you check HANZAB please, to see if richardi gets as far south as Ballarat? - if yes, we'll have to get someone familiar with both species to identify it on plumage :-) I had a go myself comparing it with pics on the net, and couldn't decide . . . - MPF 13:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[List of New Zealand birds]]

message: I just picked up a copy of "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" by Bruce Bagemihl (ISBN 1-86197-182-6). It's totally fascinating! I plan to add tidbits from it to the various articles we already have. There are some significant sections on primates (hence my particular interest) but also on other mammals (including cetaceans, Pete) and tons of info on birds. - UtherSRG 02:21, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: That does sound very interesting. Dolphins have been recorded with all sorts of "human" behaviour... sex for fun, murder, gay behaviour. Looking forward to your additions. Pcb21| Pete 09:07, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll probably start reading this book today. The first half is less interesting from the Wikipedia standpoint, but I want to see where he's coming from. The second half is organized by species, documenting which behaviors are typically seen, etc. It'll probably take me most ofthe week to get through the first half. I've scanned through the species pages and they are fascinating... he's got one bit for river dolphins, describing how they perform penile-blowhole intercourse. - UtherSRG 14:11, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Animal homosexuality, intersexuality, and transexuality

message: I just read that the taxonomist reference is enclosed in brackets in case the group was later renamed or changed its parenthood, it is written without in case the taxonomist who first described it already "placed it correctly". As it was an astronomy magazine (sic!) I'd like to find confirmation on this, and of course the question arises whether we already follow this standard or should follow it. I saw taxoboxes with and without brackets already, but never noticed a system behind it. andy 11:47, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taxonomist reference - brackets or not 

message: There are two pages Pinophyta (scientific name) and Conifer (vernacular name) covering the same taxon. I'd like to combine them; my preference is to make Conifer a redirect to Pinophyta, but would not object to the reverse if that is preferred by a majority of others. Anyone any thoughts? - MPF 09:32, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Redirect Conifer to Pinophyta, but make 'Conifers' the title of the taxobox JoJan 12:39, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: Woot! Looks like the right thing to me! - UtherSRG 13:20, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, will wait a bit longer in case anyone else has views. Jo, agreed on the title (it is already!). PS - anyone know what's happened to wiki? . . why has it reverted to the old style (search box top right, not left, etc)? - MPF 18:18, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: Short answer: I don't know. The chart at Pinophyta indicates that it is a subgroup of Cycadophyta. My garden book says Cycas revoluta "is a primitive, cone-bearing plant related to conifers." It's apparently a bit mixed up on what "cone-bearing" means. Mackerm 18:36, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: BTW, are all the taxo-boxes going to have to be adjusted so that Cycadophyta is inserted above Pinophyta? Mackerm 19:59, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You are misreading the chart. It says that Cycadophyta broke off the "main path" first, then Ginkgophyta. All three are equal in taxonomic rank as Divisions.  - UtherSRG 20:14, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Mackerm - Uther's right, it doesn't, it shows that Pinophyta and Cycadophyta share a common ancestor (together with Ginkgophyta as well). Although cycads have cones or cone-like seed-bearing structures, they are not considered conifers within normal english usage of that term - MPF 20:16, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I agree with everybody else that the article should be on the Pinophyta page. Mackerm 20:42, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Pinophyta, Conifer