Talk:Erik Satie/Archive 1

message: Substituted at 14:45, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: In my early days here at wikipedia I did dreadfully overlink. The Satie article still needs some cleanup in that sense. I'll do whenever I've got some time, but anyone wanting to help: don't withold yourselves. --Francis Schonken 14:25, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Overlinking

message: Some months ago I received a nice letter from Ornella Volta of the "Archives Erik Satie" in Paris, giving some side-remarks for improvement on the Erik Satie article (which I had sent her as a printed document on 15/08/2004 - Ornella Volta has no regular access to internet, so that was the easiest way to proceed).
Anyway, the suggested improvements will be introduced shortly in the article (I did postpone this too long). Does anyone care to read my exchange of letters and faxes with Ornella Volta? I could publicise copies of (part of) them, though note that most of the conversation is in French.
--Francis Schonken 14:25, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Archives Erik Satie feedback

message: I'm about to remove the "homosexuality" reference from the opening paragraph of the Erik Satie article: it seems neither belonging to the most "important" nor to the most "interesting" things that can be said about Satie:
* If it were all that important his contemporaries would at least have managed to preserve an unambiguous trace of that alleged homosexuality for posterity;
* I don't see how this could belong to the top most intresting things that could be said about Satie, if there seems to be so little influence of Satie's alleged homosexuality in his music (see: gymnopédie).
I'd like to make a comparison here: Virginia Woolf was also described as "asexual", e.g. by herself in her diaries, by her niece Angelica Garnett, etc... Nonetheless I've always defended Wikipedia articles should be clear about Woolf's lesbianism, simply because it is relevant for her books (e.g. Orlando's main theme could be mistaken as transsexuality otherwise); also it is clear from historical data that Virginia and Vita made an "elopement" trip to France, very similar, be it less intensive, to Vita's adventures with Violet Trefusis in that same country.
Compared to that Satie's presumed homosexuality brings no relevance to an audition of the gymnopédies. I think it's good to have a "Satie's sexuality" section in the "idee reçus" section (questions about that topic appear to be popping up more than often!), and to have some description of how Satie probably understood the term gymnopédie when he firt used it, in the gymnopédie article. I suppose I'd think that the most balanced solution.
--Francis Schonken 10:23, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Step 3

message: I also recall hearing on a local radio station that in addition to sheet music, umbrellas, etc. they found three pianos with their legs sawed off and stacked on top of eachother as well as a hammock instead of a bed. can anybody coroborate?
24.34.179.111 01:17, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose this is fantasy. Afaik there was 1 piano (upright), covered in dust. And a bed. But descriptions vary. --Francis Schonken 07:00, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Contents of Apartment after Death

message: I've never bothered to edit a Wikipedia article before, but I thought I'd point out another example of a Satie piece that has been played by a modern musician.  On Plaid's "Rest Proof Clockwork", track 8 ("Tearisci") uses a section of one of the three Danse de Travers pieces.  You can listen to it yourself here  (don't worry, no copyright is broken by this link).  I don't know if this is something that necessarily needs to be added to the article, but it's an interesting piece of trivia that might be added both here and in the article on the album itself.  I figured I'd leave any actual Wiki editing to more experienced users.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.24.168 (talk) 09:16, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Example of a Modern Rendition of a Satie Composition 

message: It's only a minor discrepancy, but French names in particular can be kind of hard to figure out. I'm as cultured as the next common slob but I don't know quite how to pronounce this one. Should there be some kind of phonetic description included somewhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.122.32 (talk • contribs) 
It surprises me that no one mentions the Elvis Costello sample of Gnossiennes Lent in his song 'When I was cruel no 2'  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.46.50 (talk) 14:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phonetics of 'Satie' 

message: * "Le Bâtard de Tristan, an anti-Wagnerian opera he probably never composed"...
* "Geneviève de Brabant (Satie), a short comic opera on a serious theme"...
* There are other limited contributions to opera productions not even spelled out in the Satie article (e.g. the Gounod production at Monte Carlo)
From Wikipedia:Categorization of people#General considerations: ...try to limit the number of categories to what is most essential about this person, something in the vein of: "give me 4 or 5 words that best characterize this person." - IMHO opera composer is not among those most essential characteristics of Satie. --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:39, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *The opera has been recorded and is occasionally performed still. From my perspective that makes the work significant enough to warrant an opera composer cat. FYI the Satie opera should really be unlinked because there isn't an article on it yet. The article is on the Offenbach operetta.Nrswanson (talk) 05:58, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

text: *Opera composer is not a central characteristic of Satie, so, per the categorisation of people guideline, no categorisation in this sense warranted. I've got a recording of Satie's Geneviève, and have attended a life performance of it... as a puppet play (note that the question whether it is really an opera is matter of debate, although I suppose Volta's arguments for the opera stance are convincing - but afaik never performed as an opera in an opera house). Satie's score of Geneviève (I have a copy) is only piano + voices, and almost nothing is known about it apart from that score that went lost during Satie's lifetime, and the libretto by Contamine that was rediscovered still more than half a century after the music was discovered after Satie's death. All very interesting, but opera composer is not a main characteristic of Satie. --Francis Schonken (talk) 06:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Satie as opera composer 

message: There's nothing about Satie's death or his later years in life... the article just goes off track into a rambling litany of his later works. -Rolypolyman (talk) 17:05, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death 

message: I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles.  This article is clearly B-class; it is factually rich and interesting.  However, the last half of the article is poorly organized, and (as the tag indicates) it should include inline citations for at least the more exotic things.  (I view this primarily as an anti-vandalism defense -- how is a random vandal patroller to know which facts are reliably sourced and which aren't?)  My full review is on the comments page; questions and comm
ents should be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 02:10, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Composer project review

message: I personally feel that a lot of Satie's Wiki page needs to be rewritten. It is overly long, and generally ineffective. I give you this atrocious run-on sentence from the "Riding the Waves" section, first paragraph, second sentence:
"First, there was, starting in 1912, the success of his new "miniature", humorous piano pieces; he was to write and publish many of these over the next few years (most of them premiered by the pianist Ricardo Viñes): the Véritables préludes flasques (pour un chien) ("Genuine Flaccid Preludes (for a dog)"), the Vieux sequins et vieilles cuirasses ("Old Sequins and Old Breastplates"), the Embryons desséchés ("Desiccated Embryos"), the Descriptions automatiques, and the Sonatine bureaucratique (a Muzio Clementi spoof), etc., all date from this period."
There's four commas within the first 13 or 14 words, leading to a semicolon, which gives way to a colon, which results in yet more commas and half a dozen parenthesis and quotation marks. Sentences and paragraphs like this need to be compacted for easier digestion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.175.243.159 (talk) 04:45, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why there are [edit] links everywhere! Go for it. Nobody here but us bears volunteers. -- Quiddity (talk) 18:11, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Certain users have been very effective in reverting any modifications made to this article, valuing their own contributions, style and voice more than the work of others, but maybe now it's a quieter moment to do some cleanup. BTW, I have no idea what "things started to move very quickly for Satie" means. That he had hallucinations? (Joke.) I'll remove the worst of it.--Wormsie (talk) 14:11, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Ineffectiveness and Sloppy Grammar