Talk:Kiko, Crown Princess of Japan

message: for simplicity's sake, I suggest this be moved under Kiko, Princess Akishino.
Akishino is a title, her husband is Fumihito Saito, Prince Akishino; parallel to that of Charles, Prince of Wales 217.140.193.123 21:31, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rename

message: The article currently claims that the subject was born in both 1966 and 1981.  Also, the dates given for various parts of her education do not make any sense.  Hopefully someone with knowledge of the subject will correct these inconsistencies. --Dglynch 23:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date inconsistency 

message: How about someone gets a new picture? The current one is, in my opinion, a bit poor. SIGURD42 18:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Picture 

message: What are the reactions in Japan to the princess' pregnancy ? I guess that must be a huge surprise ?208.46.78.226 17:17, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yukarin, thanks for editing, but this page is not for writing your opinion on Japanese imperial system. --222.158.236.49 07:21, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pregnancy

message: I hadn't realised Princess Kiko was the wife of Margaret Thatcher. That's quite an interesting piece of info right there.
:D
::I think something needs to be done about the abundance of vandalism on this page. It's starting to get ridiculous. Morhange 22:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Margaret Thatcher 

message: I've corrected the ambiguous wording, the one where the clause 'the second son of the Emperor Akihito' is enclosed in commas, as it could be seen to refer to either the Prince or the Princess. While I realise that a more careful look at the text makes it obvious that the Princess cannot be the second son of the Emperor Akihito, I think that such wording has two grammatically permissible meanings, even if one is contextually nonsensical, and may confuse readers at first glance. 218.186.9.1 05:12, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ambiguity

message: The article appears to have dozens of "This Article Documents and Current Event" headers.  I can't find out how to remove them.  Someone who knows what they are doing should do so.  --Corinthian 13:15, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dozens of Headers - Format Error

message: It wasn't exactly 41 years, now was it? Shouldn't it be changed to 41 years and XX months? -24.92.41.95 22:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Exactly 41 years?

message: "(in Japan only the wife of an Emperor is called an Empress)" from Chrysanthemum Throne article. If the law is changed will the new female monarchs be called Emperor or Empress? --Gbleem 03:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In English "Empress" obviously, however in Japanese it will remain "tenno" which applies for ruling males and females equally. "Empress-consort" in Japanese has various other names, such as "kogo", "chugu", etc. Gryffindor 11:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Empress or emperor? 

message: This is my first Wiki comment so I'm not sure if I'll have the coding correct. I've long followed the princess' life and an important part of her story -- a large part, in fact -- has been overlooked here. This article reads as if it was issued by the Imperial House. There were numerous reports of her unhappiness, which developed into serious depression, caused by the stresses of palace life. Bureaucrats there, as well as the entire country, put such pressure on her to become pregnant that she became a virtual recluse. The article as written sounds like it was posted by the Imperial House. No mention of her difficulties. Here is a link to just one story, there has been reams of copy written about this: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/05/20/MNGTF6OMJF1.DTL&type=printable -- drusefton  —Preceding undated comment added 14:19, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This refers to a newspaper story about Princess Masako, who is the wife of Crown Prince Naruhito. --Tenmei (talk) 00:48, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Difficulties in palace life

message: An uploaded image of Princess Akishino signing at a Deaf event was improperly uploaded from the Imperial Household Agency website..   A careful examination of the fair use rationale revealed critical flaws which could not be resolved.  A summary is archived below.  
A review of this failed template may help mitigate similar problems in the future. 
:;Non-free use rationale
:*Article           = Japanese Sign Language
:*Description       = Kiko, Princess Akishino gives a speech in Japanese sign language (JSL) at the 22nd Sign Language Speech Contest for High School Students -- August 28, 2005.
:*Source            =  http://www.kunaicho.go.jp/e-about/activity/activity03.html  and 
::::   http://www.kunaicho.go.jp/activity/activity/03/activity03-ph.html 
::* Attribution: Asahi Shimbun; please note  Japanese Imperial Household Agency, Notice on Copyright
:*Portion           = The entire photograph is used to convey the impression intended by the Imperial Household Agency (Kunaicho) and to avoid tarnishing or misrepresenting the intended image.
:*Low resolution    = The digitized image of the original photograph is a size and resolution sufficient to maintain the quality intended by Kunaicho without being unnecessarily high resolution.
:*Purpose           = The significance of the image is to help the reader (a) to identify the use of JSL by a member of the Japanese Imperial family, (b) to show the use of JSL in the context of actual communication, (c) to assure the readers that they have reached the right article containing critical commentary about JSL, and (d) to illustrate the subject of JSL in a way that words alone could not convey.
:*Replaceability    = Because it is a Kunaicho photograph, there is almost certainly no free equivalent. Any substitute that is not a derivative work would fail to convey the impression intended by Kunaicho, would tarnish or misrepresent Princess Akishino's image, or would fail its purpose of identification or commentary.
:*Other information = This image comes from the Imperial Household web page which gives it a unique historical imprimatur.This image is a faithful digitisation of a unique event in which Princess Akishino participated; and in this context, she signed a message to the deaf Japanese in her audience in 2005.  The image of the Princess at a Deaf event plus the image of her gestures and hand signing plus her facial expression plus the plain black dress she chose to wear so that her signs could be seen by her audience are the subject of commentary rather than the event it depicts (which is the original market role).
::* Note:  Japanese Imperial Household Agency, Notice on Copyright
The discussion thread about deleting this file is archived at  Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2010 December 4#File:Princess Akishino JSL.jpgThe image was removed from the article about Japanese Sign Language (JSL).If another image of the Princess using JSL is uploaded, it would enhance the quality of the article about JSL. In addition, it would be good addition to this article about the princess. --Tenmei (talk) 00:48, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Image from Imperial Household Agency website 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Prince Akishino which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 18:15, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304201322/https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2008/11/10/pdfs/A44705-44705.pdf to https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2008/11/10/pdfs/A44705-44705.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150518100710/http://www.peruthisweek.com/news-prince-akishino-and-princess-kiko-of-japan-visit-peru-102095 to http://www.peruthisweek.com/news-prince-akishino-and-princess-kiko-of-japan-visit-peru-102095
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Fumihito, Prince Akishino which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 00:00, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: Hi, is it possible to rename the page to Kiko, Crown Princess of Japan since she is officially titled that right now and the Crown Princess part should be 
first now in the page before the Princess Akishino (ex: Crown Princess Akishino on the Imperial Family website, so should be Kiko, Crown Princess of Japan, Princess Akishino) now 
at this point since the ceremony? She is also called Crown Princess Kiko as well in news reports, just as she was when Princess Akishino. I also vote for same 
request on Fumihito's page as well. Mirrorthesoul (talk) 19:10, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Please follow the process at Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting multiple page moves. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:55, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

text: I'd support such page moves for she & her husband. GoodDay (talk) 22:01, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request Move 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: MOVED (non-admin closure)  Spekkios (talk) 20:47, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: *I think it should be consistent with his wife’s article (and the articles on other male relatives who have not been become emperor, including Masahito, Prince Hitachi, Takahito, Prince Mikasa, etc. all of which follow the pattern [Name], [Title].) Keivan.fTalk 03:08, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

text: That would be WP:OTHERSTUFF though (this is not a deletion discussion but you get my point). Each article needs to be evaluated based on its own specific situation. In the case of Naruhito, he was never granted a specific princely title to start a new branch of the imperial family. His title as a young member of the imperial family was Prince Hiro (just as his brother Fumihito's was Prince Aya). He was named crown prince on 23 February 1991, and was simply known as 皇太子殿下 (HIH The Crown Prince) afterwards (source: 1). On the website of the Imperial Household Agency they were also simply referred to as Their Imperial Highnesses the Crown Prince and Crown Princess. That is in contrast to his brother and sister-in-law who are referred to as Their Imperial Highnesses Crown Prince and Crown Princess 'Akishino'. Keivan.fTalk 01:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sad to see, that there's a chance both articles will be moved to 'odd' names. GoodDay (talk) 03:28, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean it's not that odd, it's just their official title. It's certainly not my preferred format, but we just have to stick with what the official source says IMO. Keivan.fTalk 20:52, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

text: They're the crown prince of Japan and crown princess of Japan. It's too bad, that fact isn't going to be reflected in their bio article titles. Well, that's the annoying side of Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 23:57, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  On a slightly related note, why are emperors Akihito and Naruhito titled only by their personal names? It's contrary to pretty much every other standard for their relatives since princes, princesses and empresses have the title in the article name. It's true for both dead and living persons. Even when you Google the names of these living emperors, every media source will use the proper etiquette. Wikipedia is like some bizarre exception. I see no justifiable reason for this odd practice that is used only here. Inserting one word into the title should be relatively uncontroversial. Queen Victoria's page is titled Queen Victoria rather than simply Victoria. I suggest we visit this question too. Same for Hirohito, who is apparently the first in this deviation in names.  --Killuminator (talk) 02:30, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:   Well, I guess it’s because they’re monarchs and we tend to avoid prefixes such as king/queen or emperor/empress in these cases (examples include Elizabeth II, Napoleon, etc.). I guess Naruhito and Akihito’s pages are fine at this point. They can be moved to their posthumous titles once they have passed. Hirohito’s, however, is an exceptional case. It should have been moved to Emperor Shōwa to match the articles on deceased emperors, but some people argue that Hirohito is the common name in English and it should not be moved to another title. If you wish to change that page’s name, I’m afraid you have to start a new RM. Keivan.fTalk 12:57, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 10 November 2021 

message: May I point out, that before Naruhito succeeded to the imperial throne. He & his wife's bio article titles were Naruhito, Crown Prince of Japan & Masako, Crown Princess of Japan. Best we keep with that precedent, using "...Crown Prince of Japan" & "...Crown Princess of Japan". GoodDay (talk) 01:06, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be WP:OTHERSTUFF though (this is not a deletion discussion but you get my point). Each article needs to be evaluated based on its own specific situation. In the case of Naruhito, he was never granted a specific princely title to start a new branch of the imperial family. His title as a young member of the imperial family was Prince Hiro (just as his brother Fumihito's was Prince Aya). He was named crown prince on 23 February 1991, and was simply known as 皇太子殿下 (HIH The Crown Prince) afterwards (source: 1). On the website of the Imperial Household Agency they were also simply referred to as Their Imperial Highnesses the Crown Prince and Crown Princess. That is in contrast to his brother and sister-in-law who are referred to as Their Imperial Highnesses Crown Prince and Crown Princess 'Akishino'. Keivan.fTalk 01:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sad to see, that there's a chance both articles will be moved to 'odd' names. GoodDay (talk) 03:28, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean it's not that odd, it's just their official title. It's certainly not my preferred format, but we just have to stick with what the official source says IMO. Keivan.fTalk 20:52, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

text: They're the crown prince of Japan and crown princess of Japan. It's too bad, that fact isn't going to be reflected in their bio article titles. Well, that's the annoying side of Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 23:57, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  On a slightly related note, why are emperors Akihito and Naruhito titled only by their personal names? It's contrary to pretty much every other standard for their relatives since princes, princesses and empresses have the title in the article name. It's true for both dead and living persons. Even when you Google the names of these living emperors, every media source will use the proper etiquette. Wikipedia is like some bizarre exception. I see no justifiable reason for this odd practice that is used only here. Inserting one word into the title should be relatively uncontroversial. Queen Victoria's page is titled Queen Victoria rather than simply Victoria. I suggest we visit this question too. Same for Hirohito, who is apparently the first in this deviation in names.  --Killuminator (talk) 02:30, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:   Well, I guess it’s because they’re monarchs and we tend to avoid prefixes such as king/queen or emperor/empress in these cases (examples include Elizabeth II, Napoleon, etc.). I guess Naruhito and Akihito’s pages are fine at this point. They can be moved to their posthumous titles once they have passed. Hirohito’s, however, is an exceptional case. It should have been moved to Emperor Shōwa to match the articles on deceased emperors, but some people argue that Hirohito is the common name in English and it should not be moved to another title. If you wish to change that page’s name, I’m afraid you have to start a new RM. Keivan.fTalk 12:57, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: An infobox image should fully show the subject's face. In other words it has to be up front. This image that you are forcefully trying to insert into the lede is of no encyclopedic value. We don't use side profiles as infobox images unless there is no other suitable photo available; which is not the case for Kiko. Keivan.fTalk 00:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: the concern for me was that you were seemingly unaware that was kiko. I put it in until another mor recent photo then one from 2016 is found. Camillz (talk) 04:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fully aware it's Kiko. It still does not show her face clearly. Recentism is not a factor when putting up an infobox image. The subject's face has to be shown clearly; and she has not changed much since 2016 anyway. Keivan.fTalk 05:19, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Her face is clearly to be seen though, also sorry for the confusion with the whole you didn't know, it's just you stated whilst editing twice "absolutely ridiculous that it's not her face" or something similar Camillz (talk) 05:51, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Camillz No worries. Yes, her face can be seen, but from the side! An infobox image should show the subject 'facing the camera'. There are multiple examples that you can refer to, including Naruhito, Joe Biden, Charles III, Queen Camilla, etc. Seeing one side of her face does not make her recognizable to a clueless reader unfamiliar with the subject. Keivan.fTalk 05:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, If another more recent image (from the front) with copyright that allows me to, I'll upload it and add it here. Until then I suppose I'll just leave it here. Camillz (talk) 05:58, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course; a suitable recent image that shows her face completely, is of high quality, and has no copyright issues can always be used. I'm sure no one would oppose it. Keivan.fTalk 06:00, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it's been done before I'd assume, thanks for your time Camillz (talk) 06:02, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox image