Talk:MP4 file format

message: According to Open file format, "the specification of an open format may require a fee to access". Some recent edits to the infobox have stated that MP4 and ISO base media file format (ISOBMFF) are not open (the same as a trade secret), referencing GitHub issues about ISOBMFF, which are not as reliable as the Library of Congress sources that state that both MP4 and ISOBMFF are open formats. The justification in those GitHub issues was that, because the standard is not accessible without a fee, it should therefore be considered not open, which is incorrect. Although MP4 and ISOBMFF are open, they are not free as they require paying licensing fees. This is also listed in their infoboxes. Fernando Trebien (talk) 14:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: you're not editing in good faith. you've reverted several times without gaining consensus. also, you seem to be conflating the point of "is the format open" versus "is this link appropriate". tackle the issues separately. Svnpenn (talk) 01:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The link to the current version of the standard has been added as requested. The link to ISO/IEC 14496-14:2003, which is the first edition of version 2, was already in the text, it only required browsing the ISO website through the Life cycle section, or using a web search engine to look for the latest iteration in , ISO/IEC 14496-14:2020. --Fernando Trebien (talk) 03:57, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

text: As the reference supports the information about the status, it is clear that the two cannot be treated separately, otherwise the text would become incoherent. The important point, however, is that the format is open and that the Library of Congress was and still is a much more reliable reference than some discussions on GitHub. Your reverts reintroduced an error and two less reliable references. A direct link to the standard is a welcome addition, but was not necessary to correct the previous information. --Fernando Trebien (talk) 04:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:MP4_file_format#MP4_and_ISOBMFF_are_not_open_formats --Svnpenn (talk) 19:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

text: IME open in this context just means equitable and reasonable access. There may be a not-for-profit charge for the technical documents and there may even be a license fee for intellectual property associated with the standard. Licensing must be reasonable and non-discriminatory (RAND). ~Kvng (talk) 15:38, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Some (though not here in Wikipedia) have raised the question of whether the  required for MP4 is reasonable. For medium or large organizations, it is insignificant. For an individual, it might be unreasonable, depending on their country, so it is a barrier to entry for some. The ANSI Webstore describes ISO as a nonprofit organization, but I haven't found any other sources corroborating that and ISO themselves don't use that word. I'm inclined to think they technically are even if they don't say it explicitly, as I didn't find any sources saying the contrary. --Fernando Trebien (talk) 16:40, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  MP4 and ISOBMFF are open formats, even if an access fee is required 

message: Hello, I'm responding to a request for more information at WP:3O. At a glance, I see contested sources that are links to Github. Github is not a good source per WP:USERGENERATED. The source at  appears to clearly indicate the format is open; is there any reason to doubt the veracity of that source?
Aside from the content question: accusations of bad faith do no help build consensus and have no place in article talk space. VQuakr (talk) 17:34, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  3O 

message: Should the infobox indicate that MP4 is an open format, that it is not an open format, or say nothing about it?
Related RfCs:
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Fernando Trebien (talk) 22:14, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: should indicate that MP4 is NOT an open format, or simply dont have the "open format" key included in the box. I have received private communication today from Library of Congress confirming their position that MP4 is NOT an open format. I am happy to publish that communication here or verify however needs to be done.  Svnpenn (talk) 00:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Svnpenn The unpublished opinion of the Library of Congress is irrelevant. We need published answers in reliable sources. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 03:00, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: are you saying the Library of Congress is not a reliable source? Svnpenn (talk) 03:04, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Svnpenn If it isn't published...it isn't a source. Get them to publish something. Or find something published. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 03:21, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC on whether MP4 is an open format