Talk:Computer science/Archive 5

message: I have opened a mediation case. If anyone else is interested in voicing their opinion, I invite them to clear the air. -- Evanx 07:08, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mediation case 

message: OK, we have two compromise sentences so far; let's not let them proliferate so as to be able to keep track.
One that I have suggested is:
:Computer science is the study of computation and, under more liberal definitions, computer systems as well.
One that Allan and Bmills have proposed collaboratively is:
:Computer science is the study of the properties and implementation of computation.
Let's pause here for a moment. Since the original conflict arose against Dz, Dz it would be helpful to hear from you if you could accept either of these two sentences. Similarly, I'd like to hear from the other three parties: R.Koot/Ruud, Evanx and powo. Please, let us know briefly if either of these two sentences is OK; if not, can you propose a minimal modification of one or the other that you would be happy with? Sdedeo (tips) 18:48, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Computer science is the study of information and computation, and their implementation and applications.' I'd like to include information and keep it keywordish. —Ruud 18:51, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Works for me. --Allan McInnes 18:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

text: "Computer science is the study of the implementation of computation and phenomena related to computers." Dzonatas 18:49, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Computer science is the study of computation, as well as its implementations and applications.
"implementations and applications" seems to me to be the phenomena that Dz wants to talk about. Meanwhile, I've cut the word "information" -- I don't know what the "implementation and applications" of information is, and as others have remarked (I think it was Bmills?), "information" can be a bit too broad: CS is about how information is organized and manipulated (a subset of "computation".)
Let go another round: Dz, Ruud, Allan, Bmills, please let me know if you can live with this version. If not, please provide a minimal modification of it that would satisfy you. Sdedeo (tips) 19:28, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

text: *Support - I'm fine with that phrasing. It's a good compromise. --Allan McInnes 19:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

text: *Not yet - I stand by my point that information should be included. In most non-english languages computer science is called informat- or data-. Information is an integral part of computer science, wheter we are talking about database, information theory, data structures or Kolmogorov complexity. I see the problem with the sentency not being entierly correct, but but solution should be a rephrasing, not removing one of the critical keywords. —Ruud 19:43, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair point. I still support the phrasing, but would be happy to include something on information too. --Allan McInnes 21:57, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Computer science is the study of computation and information processing, as well as its implementations and applications.
Again, let me know if you can support, and if not, how you would minimally modify. My inclusion of "information" is suboptimal, so suggestions that avoid inadvertantly including, e.g., library science, would be welcome.
Sdedeo (tips) 19:53, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am sorry, I have been busy and did not expect the cabal to act so fast. I appreciate the prompt response. I have taken time to read this and it appears that both information and computation are essential to the definition. If so, the most concise is the present variation. The earlier ones which seek to be a compromise, is a mouthful in itself. -- Evanx 20:10, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Support.  Some of the other proposals are starting to sound like exam answers instead of encyclopedic article openers.  --Piet Delport 20:26, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: medcabal 2

message: Dear all -- there was a long and extended debate on the exact nature of the sentence beginning the article. I was brought in as part of medcabal; see: . After a lot of work by everyone, we have arrived at a consensus solution (we took a brief poll and there were no objections, though there were definitely a few "weak supports"); the consensus is:
:Computer science is the study of the theoretical foundations of information and computation and their implementation and application in computer systems.
The long discussion which produced this consensus is here. There is a lot of material there, and a good amount of interesting discussion; please consider reading it when updating discussions within the article about definitional issues. Sometimes archiving talk pages can be controversial; I don't mean to be "sneaky" -- I'm just trying to clear up the talk page so that it can be used for other discussions.
Let me add a few brief thoughts of my own:
# There is no singular definition of computer science. There are many competing, sometimes contradictory definitions. I am happy to see that not only is there extensive and sourced discussion of this elsewhere in the article, but there is a whole separate article discussing these issues in greater detail. All of the people involved in the dispute have a great deal to contribute to improving these things, and I hope they will continue to do so.
# Because of these things, please try not to place too much importance on this single sentence. This sentence doesn't mean that other definitions cannot be discussed elsewhere. Really this definition is only an "initial guide" to a reader coming in.
# There is definitely a certain amount of frustration going around, but we did manage to work together and resolve the dispute. It is not a perfect resolution (not everyone, indeed no-one but me, is saying that it's a super solution.) But surprisingly, we do I believe have something that will "stick" for the parties involved. On the internet, that is rare.
Thank you all very much for bearing with me, even when I've been a bit pushy myself.
Sdedeo (tips) 05:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition resolution