Talk:Road train

message: I found this article to be very interesting. I don't believe we have road trains in America, at least not as long as in Australia. Being a contributor to Wikipedia, it never occurred to me that I might actually learn something by reading these articles. I'm glad I found this one. Too bad we lost the railroads in the U.S. - Fernkes 00:17, Oct 12, 2003 (UTC)
Now now, this is a tad too pessimistic, the railways are fighting back and the roadrailers are an important aspect of that fight. --Peter Horn 02:39, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: earlier comments

message: The following phrase is a "dog's breakfast":
"A road train consists of a relatively conventional truck chassis, cab, and tractor," I'm breaking my head as to how best to clarify this one. --Peter Horn 02:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about: "A road train consists of a relatively conventional prime mover pulling two or more semi-trailer units connected with dollys." --Scott Davis Talk 05:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not just Tractor Unit pulling two or more semi-trailers? I mean if it were ME id just say truck and leave it at that, but, "prime mover", seriously? Also even though i am not from Australia the trucks are anything but conventional in nearly every form of the word.CaptianNemo (talk) 04:08, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarification needed

message: There is a broken link in the world's longest section. --5telios 13:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Broken link

message: Having only seen 2, and rarely 3 trailer trains in the US, I'm curious what is the typical size of a road train in rural Australia?  The world records are neat trivia but obviously those are not representative of real-world use. —Dgies 22:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A-double (two full-length trailers) are allowed south of Port Augusta, all the way to Port Adelaide with the right permits. North of Port Augusta they use A-triples (three full-length trailers). In the Northern Territory, the fuel tankers are often 4 trailers (like the BP one in the picture) - two B-doubles joined by an A-dolly - a total of 17 axles (1 steer- 2 drive - 3 on first trailer - 3 on second trailer - 2 on dolly - 3 on third trailer - 3 on fourth trailer). I'm not sure if livestock are ever moved on 4 trailers. I think I've seen 4 or 5-trailer pictures from remote north Western Australia hauling minerals where a railway was uneconomic (not sure if these were on public roads). Where should that information fit in the article? --Scott Davis Talk 12:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I had a closer look at the picture - it's an A-double followed by a B-double, 19 axles: 1 steer- 2 drive - 3 on first trailer - 2 on dolly - 3 on second trailer - 2 on dolly - 3 on third trailer - 3 on fourth trailer). It might even have tri-axle dollies, the angle makes it too hard to tell. I live in South Australia, which doesn't permit tri-axle dollies or more than three trailers. Rules and maps for SA can be found at  and  (links from) . --Scott Davis Talk 14:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Typical Length in Australia?

message: Do the Australians actually consider a tractor pulling doubles a "road train"? It seems to me that I've only heard the term used for the combinations with three or more trailers. Also, I used to drive trucks and I never heard the term "road train" used in the U.S. except when talking about Australian road trains. Rsduhamel 07:29, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as signage on the trucks, "Road Train" must appear if there's a dolly involved. B-Doubles/Triples must have "Long Vehicle" instead. Single trailers have none. Common practice is to remove just half the sign when running single or no trailers, so we see a number of trucks that are labelled "Long" or "Train" getting around towns. Supertin (talk) 08:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many trailers 

message: Darwin, NT, is the only capital city in the world that will allow triples and quads to within 1km of the CBD.
What is a CBD? (Link or spelling-out of abbrev/acro please) 85.227.226.168 07:07, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  CBD? 

message: Please rearrange so that the current world record is on top, and previous ones relegated to less prominent positions (or indeed removed altogether) 85.227.226.168 07:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  World's longest road trains 

message: The opening paragraph is inacurate:
A road train does not exist. Trains travel on rails, these big trucks travel on the road. trucking concept used in remote areas of Australia, the United States, and Western Canada to move bulky loads efficiently. The term "road train" is most often used in Australia. In the U.S. and Canada the terms "triples", "Turnpike doubles" and "Rocky Mountain doubles" are commonly used for longer combination vehicles (LCVs).[1]
1. Road trains do exist. This article is about them.
2. A train is a "a line or procession of persons, vehicles, animals, etc., traveling together" or "something that is drawn along; a trailing part." - Dictionary.com "Train"
3. The author of this statement is refering to railway trains which travel on rails. A road train (which by the definition of train is a legitimate term) is a series of trailers drawn by a single prime-mover.
4. The third sentence is not even complete.
This paragraph should read something like this:
A road train is a trucking method used in remote areas of Australia, the United States, and Western Canada to move bulky loads efficiently. Road trains are made up of a series of trailers drawn by a single prime mover. The term "road train" is most often used in Australia. In the U.S. and Canada the terms "triples", "Turnpike doubles" and "Rocky Mountain doubles" are commonly used for longer combination vehicles (LCVs).[1]
:What you propose is the previous wording before a recent editor changed it. I agree that the change is not helpful and have reverted it. Euryalus 04:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening paragraph is inacurate! 

message: Being a driver of one of these vehicles, I've added a bit about their use in this country.
I've changed one bit of the original article. LCVs are NOT used on the winter roads. The NWT permit restricts their operation to routes from the border with Alberta to the town of Hay River, and destinations on Old Airport Road in Yellowknife. Legal length B-trains (25 metres) are the longest vehicles used on the winter roads.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dionysus ab (talk • contribs) 03:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm confused by that section of the article myself. B doubles (or Super B's as they seem to be called up there) are allowed on the winter roads, right? Because the article currently effectively says they aren't. The TV series says otherwise (even if the animators repeatedly incorrectly showed a B double having a dolly).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Supertin (talk • contribs) 08:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  LCVs in western Canada 

message: Can anyone decipher this? I would correct it if I knew how, but the phrases seem contradictory: "Road train overview. Letters do not reflect the here mentioned types, although B is a B-double. True road trains are not represented in this diagram."Hyperizer (talk) 23:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Caption 

message: I wonder if such a vehicle might be feasible or doable. The idea I have would be to reserve or build highway lanes (or make a wide highway lane) and run trains on highways rather than rails, thus avoiding Amtrak's freight railroad problem (responsible for many Amtrak delays). This could require entirely new rolling stock and some sophisticated turning tech, but I think it's technologically possible. I dunno about feasibility or political possibility, though.  —  Rickyrab | Talk 18:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Those trains would consist of buses, except that they would be specialized so they could couple with one another and form through passageways, like on a passenger railroad. The trains could potentially break up and assemble near the highway exits, and disassembled "trains" would, in the form of buses, run routes through urban and suburban areas. One drawback of this approach is that width of the vehicles would be limited (buses are narrower than trains are), as they would need to be in order to fit in the streets. This might, among other things, make road-train food service a pain in the neck. However, wider cars might be used along the highways for such service, and be decoupled at the end of highway runs. Ditto with sleepers (but passengers would be able to transfer by moving through the train. Wheelchair passengers would have to disembark and re-embark, though.)  —  Rickyrab | Talk 18:21, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh yeah, and turns might be a bit slow. RoadRailer maybe?  —  Rickyrab | Talk 18:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "even huge bus bodies pulled by tractor trailers used to haul oil field workers in the Middle East."? Like these?  Trekphiler (talk) 02:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Long-distance passenger land trains

message: The article says, "total permissible length is 38 metres" & "one semi-trailer up to 53 feet long and two shorter "pup" trailers up to 32 feet long...the longest combinations allowed in Canada on public highways." So which is it?  Trekphiler (talk) 02:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Talking out of both sides of the cab?

message: The company that I work for is permitted for queen city triples and are allowed longer then 38 meters for all combinations.  It all depends on what the specific company is permitted.  I have been trying to find more info about different companies permits that I can use to accurately edit the page however all I can get my hands on is our own permit.  Also the you cannot always use the maximum legnth trailers as the total legnth will be over the maximum,  I will clean up the Canadian section as soon as I can get a Full copy of the regulations.  Will note sources too. Dargaard (talk) 21:30, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 38 meters is not entirely acurate

message: This article says:
:Two-trailer road trains, or "doubles" are allowed in rural areas of all Australian states, except in two capital cities - Adelaide in South Australia, and Perth in Western Australia.
Now I've been to both Adelaide and Perth, and I don't think anybody would describe either as rural. So on a literal reading, the whole clause from 'except' onwards is redundant. On the other hand, the sentence could be read as clarifying that Adelaide and Perth are the only non-rural places in Australia, and hence the only place doubles are not allowed. But clearly that is absurd, as nobody in their right minds would describe Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane as rural. I've never seen road trains in any of those places either, although I may just not have noticed. A third possibility may be that the author was trying to say that road trains are banned in all cities except Adelaide and Perth, where they are allowed. Common sense says this may be the most reasonable reading, but it is a long way from what the actual words say. Clearly this sentence needs reworking; does anybody know for sure where doubles are allowed / not allowed?. 
In the meantime I've amended the sentence to the more vanilla:
:Two-trailer road trains, or "doubles" are allowed in most parts of Australia, with the exception of some urban areas.
which I think covers all the above possibilities, without commiting to any one. -- Chris j wood (talk) 10:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Explanation required

message: B-Triples do operate in Victoria—between the Ford factories in Geelong and the Melbourne suburb of Campbellfield.58.96.96.162 (talk) 12:11, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  B-Triples do operate in Victoria 

message: Is there an article for the new technology that allows uncoupled cars to act as a road train through wireless control from the lead car?  People are calling this "road train" as well. Gigs (talk) 16:25, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: See Platoon (automobile). I've added a hatnote. MickMacNee (talk) 20:58, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! Gigs (talk) 21:07, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article for new "autonomous road train"? 

message: (17:43, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early History 

message: I've lived in Oregon. I've seen double 120 foot trailers with each hauling a single pipe even longer than the trailers themselves. The front trailer pipe extending over the cab and in front of the truck a considerable distance. The rear trailer pipe extending over the front pipe and considerable distance behind the second trailer and low to the ground. They are only escorted by pilot cars and crews at freeway, highway, and interstate junctions but not on those roads themselves. The crews arrive at the intersections independent of the trucks and direct traffic moments before the trucks arrive (as the trucks must cross into oncoming traffic and even leave the pavement to make wide turns). After, the crews pack up and leave, they do not escort the trucks. This is a fairly common occurrence at the I-5 and Highway 99 intersection.
Also I've seen unescorted 4 and 5 short trailer trains on several occasions as well. Very uncommon and often somewhat nerve racking as the 4th and 5th trails tend to whip around a bit, often making full use for their lane from line to line. Triple trailers (which might also be seen whipping) with two or three identical trucks in a convoy are the norm. I've not seen triples, quadruples, or quintuples anywhere but on interstates and parked in directly accessible truck-stops. I've always assumed that loads is separated and hauled 'the last mile' as singles or doubles from the truck-stops, but I don't know really.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.65.206 (talk) 03:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oregon 

message: I live here in Austraila and as far as i know a " B-Double" is just that two bogies, most drivers have a licence to drive them they are common as all *&^%. A Road train is at least Three trailers or more. I have seen up to Six in the top end of Australia and when you see one coming you get off the road....  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.149.118.115 (talk) 10:09, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Road Train??? 

message: Great work, everyone who's worked on this article. 67.139.100.98 (talk) 05:55, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Well done 

message: The article says Queen city triples are the longest combination allowed on North American highways. It also states the combination consists of a semi-trailer (16.2 meters) and two pup trailers (9.8 meters). 16.2 + 2 * 9.8 == 35.8 meters. But a few paragraphs above it says Turnpike doubles may be up to 38 meters. Perhaps the Queen city triples may be longer because there's the length of the truck to be added as well, or at least one of the statements about Queen city triples or Turnpike doubles is wrong. It either needs a fix, or a clarification. 5.57.21.129 (talk) 13:38, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Queen city triples 

message: "Double bottom: unit consisting of tractor, semi-trailer and full trailer (one with both front and rear axles). 
Down in the corner: "creeper" gear. 
Drag down: shift down to lower ..."
From Motor Truck News, in 1940.
a cite showing multiple combinations, and how to figure out, state by state, whether they are legal on-road....from 1947. Anmccaff (talk) 17:48, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Double bottoms were in use long before this 

message: I culled quite a bit of unsourced material; some challenged, some not needing challenge. There's still a ton left that's unsourced, but that's my contribution for today. This article is way too full of claims and statements without any means of verifying them directly within the article. Sourcing is fundamental to wikipedia; without it, we might as well just make things up with our imagination. Anastrophe (talk) 05:30, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed substantial unsourced material 

message: As Anastrophe said, "This article is way too full of claims and statements without any means of verifying them directly within the article. Sourcing is fundamental to Wikipedia; without it, we might as well just make things up with our imagination."
Despite the warning tags on this article and its history of unsourced material, "Anonymous" has added unsourced information about road trains in Finland. There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding among some contributors that Wikipedia, or at least this article, is a fanzine. There are many articles explaining what Wikipedia is about and what measures should be taken to ensure it stays that way. Reversion is one of them -- but I would be much happier if Anonymous  could provide a verifiable source and so add to knowledge of this subject. DAHall (talk) 23:23, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverted addition of unsourced material

message: The B-train article appears to overlap with the B-double section of this article. In Australia, a B-double is a long vehicle, but shorter than a road train. The B-train article has a picture of an Australian B-double on it, which nobody has objected to, so they must be the same thing. That article extends into longer combinations which are already covered here. --Scott Davis Talk 03:18, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: An alternative could be to split out the B-double section of this article to merge with B-train, and leave this to be only about road trains, but I don't know if that is an international distinction beyond Aus and NZ. The title of [B-train]] rather than B-double (currently a redirect) suggests that they are seen as a short form of road train rather than a long form of semi-trailer in some countries. Perhaps we should merge both B-train and Long combination vehicle to Road train, then review all the relevant heavy road transport vehicle articles (semi-trailer and semi-trailer truck are currently different articles too) and work out how many there should be, and what the name and scope of each one is. --Scott Davis Talk 10:09, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

text: I understood the term "long combination vehicle", but it's not common language here (it might be in formal regulations). In Australia, certain combinations must have "ROAD TRAIN" signs front and rear, and other combinations must have "LONG VEHICLE" on the rear only. I have not noticed which signs are on B-triples. Road trains seem to correspond to the US Turnpike double or bigger - Prime mover, semi-trailer, dolly, semi-trailer, and could have more dollies and trailers, or have some B-double combinations included. Essentially, a B-double has a fifth wheel on the back of the first trailer as well as on the prime mover (and a B-triple has two "middle trailers"). A road train has at least one dolly (so at least three articulation points). Dollies usually have two axles, but sometimes three. Semitrailers (we would rarely say "semi-trailer truck") are allowed almost anywhere. B-doubles have been around for over 20 years, and are allowed on most main transport routes. Road trains had been permitted only in the remote outback but are gradually being permitted on more highways closer to larger population areas, mostly with incremental road upgrades at pinch points. Regulation is state-based (but I believe nationally coordinated). Vehicle lengths are regulated up to 23m and 26m B-doubles, 35m B-triples, and 32, 36.5 and 53.5m road trains. I think every state has a similar system for Restricted Access Vehicles. --Scott Davis Talk 08:10, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge proposal (B-train)