Talk:Destiny

message: Fate is distinct from destiny, and fate should not redirect to destiny. Fate can be a function of determinism and mathematical probability distributions. Destiny can be a function of free will and mathematical probability distributions. Anyone with me here ? 69.253.243.188 (talk) 03:40, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  fate and destiny 

message: I removed this from the "Fate vs Destiny" section - it lacks references, is almost impenetrable, looks suspiciously like OR, and in any case is in the wrong place. If you can find sources and a better place for it, feel free to re-insert.
"Fate can involve things which are bound within and subject to larger networks.  A set of mathematical functions arranged in a grid and interacting in defined ways is Fatelike.  Likewise the individual statues in a larger work of counterpoint art are aesthetically Fated within the work.  In each case Fate is external to every individual component, but integral to the network.  Every component acts as Fate for every other component.  The entire world can be seen as existing within such a network, a kind of mythical spiderweb controlled by unseen forces."
81.107.39.2 (talk) 20:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Fatelike' maths/art  

message: Should destiny and fate be more clearly defined, as either split into two separate articles or have the differences stated out in a subheading?
: Yes. I have seen little agreement though on which of each should be defined in what manner. I can't do it myself since it is too close to my OR.  Would you volunteer to do so? Zeusnoos 00:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Difference between fate and destiny

message: :the article Spiritual science exists, so obviously the consensus is that at least it's worthy of an article.  However, I have a couple things to bring up about the use of that website as a reference.  Since 'spiritually evolved persons' (according to that website) are also called 'saints' I would have to class at least their version of spiritual science as a belief system or religion rather than a 'science' per se.  Also their  methodology page, here, clearly makes a distinction between what they term 'modern science' and 'spiritual science': Modern science, again from their website, uses the Scientific method  which they loosely describe on the page, and Spiritual science according to the page uses 'spiritually evolved persons' (saints) asking questions.  In their words the entire process, which I am contrasting with Scientific method is that: 
::1)a "spiritually evolved person asks a question" and 
::2)"definitive and absolute answers are perceived immediately"
:so the site itself contrasts (their version of) Spiritual science with Modern science.  It's clearly a belief system, on a par with religious belief systems.  I think that if we include information from that website, it has to be clear that this is a belief and not science, and that in the case of using numerical percentages of what portion of human lives are "ruled by destiny" it would be have to be emphasized that this data essentially came from the equivalent of prayer or direct revelation. I'm not about beating folks up for their beliefs on either side of any issue, but we have to recognise the distinction between belief and data.  It might be just as useful to use the quote "when you believe in things you don't understand... it's superstition."
:Clearly the concept of destiny is very closely tied to belief.  I don't think an expression of what people believe it out of place in this article, but we should definitely not state those beliefs as facts.  A clear distinction needs to be made between "X is a fact" and "X is a belief held by Y" in all articles.  Regardless that the belief in destiny is a belief we can still strive for factuality in an article on destiny. User:Pedant 21:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: both a defense of belief and a defense of factuality

message: "A sense of destiny in its oldest human sense is still detectable in the soldier's fatalistic image of the "bullet that has your name on it" or the moment when your number "comes up." "
This seems absurd to me.  Destiny as a concept surely is older than the concept of bullets and lotteries.  In fact I would quibble with any assertion of "the oldest" sense of destiny.  I'd think it would be far preferable to have a quote from an ancient poet referring to destiny or fate, rather than an unsupportable assertion as above.  Comments? User:Pedant 20:46, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: More clearly expressed as now emended above?--Wetman 01:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh yeah that's a great edit!  Good work there, it keeps the sense of the original and removes the anachronism, brilliant refactor job , I wholeheartedly support that change User:Pedant 21:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oldest sense of Destiny... bullet?? 

message: Wessam Reda 02:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Philosophy

message: The article currently says, "Destiny is summed up by three words...Sandy and Tony." What??
It doesn't any more, I took it out, it was a vandalism.
what if everything we did was controled and predetermined by a force greater than ourselves? what if every random thing we said, every item we choose to fix and eat, everything had already been picked? how would that idea, widespread, chang reality? please answer.
it is irrelevant how it affects reality, since reality is ever changing. So really, it wont matter because it is one grain in a desert of change.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.171.66 (talk) 23:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sandy and who??

message: I removed the points in the lead section about a change in the meaning of "destiny" due to Heidegger's and Nietzsche's philosophies. The lead section is not the place to discuss such debated views; Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Jaspers, Sartre et al can be discussed in a sub-section if someone is willing to write one. If a distinction between fate and destiny needs to be made in the lead section, it should be done by assessing the matter in general (and with sufficient citations) - not by uncritically stating disputed views related to a somewhat marginal academic discourse.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.221.53.44 (talk) 21:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heidegger/Nietzsche 

message: Hinduism has very well worked out concept of destiny in fate with karma. I have noticed various citations from different cultures and it may make sense to add one view putting light on that aspect also. See Karma in Hinduism.Atmapuri (talk) 17:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nothing about Hinduism? 

message: Destiny may be a form of time. The more time passing the greater chances of ones destiny being fulfilled.(DeatedDestinyTuMorn,Oct6th2009 21stCent.by Dr. Edson Andre' Johnson D.D.ULC>)Edsonbrasil (talk) 18:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can destiny be a form of time? 

message: The paragraph which mentions the American concept of Manifest Destiny does not convey the philosophy of that ideology correctly at all. Manifest Destiny refers to the geographic western expansion of the United States westward across North America. The USA was destined to assimilate all the land between its colonial origins on the east coast and the Pacific Ocean.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.48.136.25 (talk) 23:27, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Manifest Destiny]] 

message: Why does "Fate (game)" redirect to this page?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.209.128.163 (talk) 11:53, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fate (game) 

message: "In a recent acredited research project conducted at University of California, fate was determined to be largely hokum, and believers of it are possed by the devil."
Hopefully there are no objections to this line being removed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crsini (talk • contribs) 20:21, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "believers of it are possed by the devil." 

message: This article needs to make reference to how Lincoln was commonly referred to as 'Father Abraham' in a comparison to the Biblical Abraham. The famous 1862 Stephen Foster song We Are Coming, Father Abra'am is the BIGGEST example of this. Lincoln used his connection to "Father Abraham" when he famously began his Gettysburg Address with "4 score and 7 years ago, our fathers...". This was a quote from Genesis 16:16 of the King James Bible, "Abram was 4 score and 6 years old when Hagar the slave woman bore his son Ishmael" (paraphrased). The fact that Lincoln was the 16th president at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. appears to be a proof of destiny. - Benjamin Franklin 75.74.157.29 (talk) 16:05, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Nonsense.108.24.200.163 (talk) 14:03, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Father Abraham' Lincoln and "4 score and 7 years ago, our fathers..." proves destiny 

message: I started this new section, but at present it's mostly a list of quotations. 
Calling a man-made event a 'political earthquake' or similar inanimate metaphor  implies that the  circumstances are beyond human control, and therefore no one can be held responsible. But that's a cop-out.
  There may be research in  this area worth bringing in to this section. Any ideas?  Crawiki (talk) 18:43, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Destiny in politics  

message: From the Babylonian creation epic Enuma Elish, toward the end of the first of six tablets:
"Let your commands prevail over all the Anunnaki [that is, those who gave to mankind their destinies]. She gave him the Tablet of Destinies... (Saying) 'Your order may not be changed; let the utterance of your mouth be firm.'" from the full text in the Ancient History Encylcopedia. Many similar references in Tablet 2, which ends: "Lord of the gods, Destiny of the great gods... proclaim for me an exalted destiny... And let me, with my utterance, decree destinies instead of you.  Whatever I instigate must not be changed, nor may my command be nullified or altered." I'm the one who added the Babylonian bullet, so I don't want my own hands too much on this point in the article. Might someone else add this Enuma Elish reference? Bob Enyart, Denver KGOV radio host  (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion section: Add reference to Babylon's Enuma Elish