Talk:Spanish language/Archive 1

message: Hello everyone. I'm pretty new to Wikipedia so I apologize for my ignorance in advance. I was looking around at language pages here and I found the one for Finnish language that redirects users to a separate Finnish grammar page that gives great detail about all the different grammatical forms and uses. It seems that much information is lacking on the grammar section of this page, and I was wondering if it would be worth creating a Spanish grammar page and moving the grammar section here to that page, allowing it to become a more complete discussion of Spanish grammar. I'd be happy to contribute to such a page, but I don't want to make such a large change as a new user without asking people's opinions, so let me know what you think. -- Jrdioko 02:07, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)
: I definitely encourage you to create a Spanish grammar page. There are grammar articles for so many languages . One for Spanish would be good.--Jondel 00:30, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would enjoying creating/contributing to such a page in the future, but I've just started college and have been pretty busy. If you or someone else wants to start working on a basic version, though, that would be great.   – Jrdioko (Talk) 05:15, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It is already existingGrammar of the Spanish language.  Solo falta nuevo informacion. Keep up the college work! --Jondel 02:15, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Separate Grammar Page

message: Any problem if I remove Basque - one of the oldest languages in the world -? Saying that Basque is old implies that today's and BC Basque are the same language, which is like saying that Spanish is Latin.
It's all in the interpretation, but comparing the "age" of Basque with that of English or Spanish is different.
-- Error 02:00, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're right, but it was meant to emphasize that Basque is not Spanish, which seems to be the belief of some people, as strange as it may seem.
--Marco Neves 23:10, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: one of the oldest languages in the world

message: Possibly this has already occurred and nobody has time, or possibly the people who wrote it know their stuff so well they don't see the need for it, but: I would love to be able to listen to little recordings demonstrating the various pronunciation concepts discussed in this article. I find it all very interesting (well done!) but, not speaking Spanish and not having any education in languages in general, I find it difficult to follow without hearing exactly what is being talked about. Rkundalini 15:36, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sound bites 

message: I fear there are too many uneducated people contributing to this article.  The way the language is described is not exactly methodical.  I've just had to remove a comment that vosotros coming from vos + otros is a folk etymology.  It is obviously not! — Chameleon 08:07, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oh dear 

message: Necesito la ayuda de algunos latinoamericanos.  ¿Soléis decir «castellano» o «español»?  Id a poner el nombre de vuestro país en la lista que está en Names given to the Spanish language. — Chameleon
:Bien, ya aporté. --Fibonacci 17:45, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with article 

message: Someone seems to be adding misspellings to the article.
Please note that it is castellano and Castilian, and not castellaño and Castillian.  Thank you.   — Chameleon My page/My talk 22:04, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misspellings 

message: An adjective describing a person or thing always comes after the noun in Spanish, not before the noun as in English.
Adjectives generally come after the noun, but not always. There are cases in which the same sentence means different things if you place the adjective before or after the noun. For example, "ese gran hombre" (that great man) and "ese hombre grande" (that big man), or "es un amigo viejo" (he's a friend who is very old) and "es un viejo amigo" (he's an old friend).
In poetry it's not uncommon to place adjectives before nouns (verdes praderas, negras tormentas...) , although it's true that it isn't common in Spanish. Sabbut 21:28, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Adjectives

message: Okay.  I read here that "traditionally rr was considered a separate letter.".  Is there any evidence for this?  The RAE's comprehensive work on Spanish orthography doesn't mention it as anything other than a digraph.  I haven't seen any Spanish-language work that sorts rr as a letter.   (I have seen, and in fact own, an American English textbook for high-school level Spanish which considers rr a letter, and even sorts it as one between r and s, but I don't know how much of that is practice taken from Spanish or pedagogical simplification of the one-phoneme—one-letter rule often taught.)  —Muke Tever 13:33, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: They are separate letters in that their names are che and elle rather than ce hache and ele ele.  Chameleon 00:29, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: You can check www.rae.es about 'rr', searching for "Abecedario" in the 'doubts dictionary' (currently not online due to maintenance). They specifically say: "En consecuencia, las palabras que comienzan por estas dos letras, o que las contienen, pasan a alfabetizarse en los lugares que les corresponden dentro de la c y dentro de la l, respectivamente. Esta reforma afecta únicamente al proceso de ordenación alfabética de las palabras, no a la composición del abecedario, del que los dígrafos ch y ll siguen formando parte." This means that they are now sorted inside the groups of 'c' and 'l' but they are still full letters for any other purpose. Then, for 'rr' they say in the next paragraph: "[...] el sonido que representa el dígrafo rr es el mismo que el representado por la r en posición inicial de palabra o precedida de las consonantes n, l o s. Este solapamiento explica que, a diferencia de la ch y la ll, la rr no se haya considerado NUNCA una de las letras del alfabeto". This in turn means more or less that 'rr' sounds like 'r' at the beginning of the word or right after 'n', 'l' or 's', so this is the reason that this was NEVER considered a letter on its own. 146.103.254.11 20:53, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: Maybe someone should update the article about this, as it is wrong. I don't do myself because I don't know if I should. 146.103.254.11 20:54, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  digraphs as letters 

message: To User:Pablo.cl
Hi, do you know of very many countries outside Spain where castellano is the term used by speakers of the language?  I think the previous wording in Spanish language was not only more accurate, but also better grammar.  I was waiting to fix Names_given_to_the_Spanish_language until I had better sources.  If you do then that is fine, but let me know on the Spanish language talk page. Thanks - Taxman 14:36, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)
Hi Taxman. I agree with Names_given_to_the_Spanish_language#Countries_or_regions_where_castellano_.28.27Castilian.27.29_is_generally_preferred. That's my source. As for the grammar, English is my second language, and I think that contents is more important than grammar. The latter can be fixed by native speakers. Pablo.cl 15:39, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Countries that say castellano 

message: Does anyone know of any word list of the 100 (200, 500, 10000 or whatever) most used spanish words? Im looking for this for a project at wikibooks, and couldnt find anything on google. Just hoping someone here might know where to find one. The bellman 23:06, 2004 Nov 29 (UTC)
::I can create one for you easily enough.  I have three corpora (corpuses) you can choose:
::* Mexican casual speech, about 300,000 words obtained from fotolog.net.
::* Chilean casual speech, a little under 300,000 words obtained from fotolog.net.
::* More formal Mexican writing, obtained from La Jornada.  This one is based on research from three years ago, though, so I'll have to dig up the CD-ROM with this data.
::I can also create a synthetic corpora which is derived from words used in casual speech by both Mexicans and Chileans. Samboy 23:33, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish word list 

message: I was about to add Languages of Argentina as category and realized that if every country added it in here, the list of categories would be endless. Leaving it this way is unfair to the countries not listed. Any objections to remove such categories? --SpiceMan 22:19, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Languages of...

message: During the Reconquista, this northern dialect was carried south, and indeed is still a minority language in northern Morocco.
This is misleading.
Spanish in Northern Morocco comes from the establishment in Ceuta and Melilla and the 20th century conquest of Rif.
There was immigration of Spanish-speaking Moriscoes, but I guess they lost full use of the language after some generations.
So I guess that the Spanish-speaking minority was not caused by Reconquista.
--Error 23:56, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Northern Morocco