Talk:Xeni Jardin/Archive 1

message: This page is now unprotected. For the record, I won't allow users to ignore concensus. I added this page onto my watchlist and I will make sure concensus is respected. Send me a message if you have any problems. :-) --Lord Deskana Dark Lord of the Sith 07:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just want to note my complete disagreement with the "consensus" and with the process used to determine it. Lost Goblin 16:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Respect for consensus 

message: I think the new version of article on Xeni Jardin shows us everything that is wrong with Wikipedia. Whilst it may have been constructed using consensus, it is laughable. It is harder to read than the previous version, has massive spelling and grammar errors and can't even list the events in chronological order.
In other words, it's a total joke. Congratulations to everyone involved. I will now be going through to at least try and make the article readable--Gerardm 23:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article has just had extra information added. Some of it has typos and is misordered. It needs sorting and cleaning, and some of it condensing. You are welcome to do that if you wish, but I suggest you be more careful with your choice of words... bearing in mind the recent fuss. - Motor (talk) 23:21, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with Gerardm and I hope more people speaks up against this supposed "consensus". --Lost Goblin 21:30, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The new and improved article 

message: I've tried to collect together and condense some of the material (without using headings) in order to cure the "listy" problem of the article. I dropped the Ceiling Out and Grand Theft Auto spots for the time being. Note: I added the line "provoked a response from a small but vocal group". I think it's a fair description. None of the contentious items have been changed. - Motor (talk) 08:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In view of recent comments, I have added a "Life and work" heading as a neutral means of tidying the article, which I feel is compatible with the spirit of the consensus. If any of the consensusees (undoubtedly not a proper word) disagrees, feel free to revert.Tyrenius 14:41, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up 

message: This is a summary of the final points of a consensus reached over disputes about the article content.
1) Get rid of the headings. The article is short and doesn't need them. It gives too much weight to the material under "criticism".
2) Omit the "temple of me" blog which has already been removed by an admin, and will not be supported by wider consensus in BLP. Omit all such blogs for the same reason and deal with the issue in Boing Boing.
3) Omit interpretation, "Jardin and her work have not been without criticism. Her perceived self-promotion, her writing style and her choice of subject matter have been cited by her critics." Again, deal with this in Boing Boing. Stick to facts in this biographical article.
4) Delete footnote which has a link to xenisucks, but retain footnote, which mentions XeniSucks. It is actually a link to the Boing Boing site and an article by Jordan herself all about XeniSucks; in this article, she has placed a hyperlink to XeniSucks. 
5) Keep GreaseMonkey. If it is not placed below a "Criticism" title, it does not come across as particularly critical, just factual. 
6) Until the article deals more fully with her life, say three or four times as much material, no more critical comments should be added. Editors who feel there should be more on criticism, should add to the main content of the article first.
The final position was that xenisucks would be mentioned, with the text as in the protected article, but there would not be a direct link in the article to xenisucks.
This was signed by the following editors:
*Jokestress 07:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This page is now unprotected. For the record, I won't allow users to ignore concensus. I added this page onto my watchlist and I will make sure concensus is respected. Send me a message if you have any problems. :-) --Lord Deskana Dark Lord of the Sith 07:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CONSENSUS SUMMARY 

message: I'm neutral on Xeni Jardin, but putting an accent over the o is incorrect in Spanish, and detracts from this article. If this word exists it is xeniflores. Putting the accent over the o may look exotic in a Mötley Crüe sort of way, but it shows ignorance of the Spanish language. I note that when Xeni herself comments (in the archived discussion) she doesn't use an accent.
Another problem with this article is the claim, in footnote 3, that "Xeniflóres in Guatemalan means 'protector of flowers'." First off, there is no such language as "Guatemalan". Guatemala is a country. People there speak either Spanish, or one of numerous indigenous languages. If the word xeniflores exists at all, it is a combination of a word from some indigenous language (xeni does not exist in Spanish) and the spanish word "flor".
--Pelkabo 20:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The ó is from the TravelTrust citation. LA Times didn't use it, though, and I made your change regarding Guatemalan. Jokestress 20:46, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xeniflóres 

message: The article currently states that her work at Boing Boing is controversial, but does not state why.  Why don't people like her? Is it her politics, her personality, what? Kat, Queen of Typos 12:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: heh. In the history of the article it was in there, but editors wanted to remove the "criticism" section so now it's mentioned with no reference beyond the xenisucks.com, which by some crazy reasoning can be typed but not linked. 71.57.123.117 06:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The reason there's no "criticism" section is that certain Wikipedia members enjoy free speech as long as it's speech they already agree with. For example the "Criticism" section of the "George W. Bush" entry contains numerous "weasel words" that have yet to be addressed by the Wikipedia community. I'm sure someday the integrity-driven users who policed this page will get to it. I suppose that entry is less important that this one - that of a minor internet celebrity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.93.99.97 (talk) 00:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please study WP:BLP for more understanding regarding negative comments about living people. You are as welcome as any other editor to address the "weasel words" you mention. Tyrenius 03:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why don't people like her? 

message: I am responding to a request for a third opinion.  
In brief: FCYTravis is correct.  — Athaenara  ✉  10:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Travis's interpretation is correct (came from the the BLPN). Lawrence § t/e 05:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Third opinion

message: I still don't understand why her original name, the one given at birth, is still unknown.  Is there no one from her home town or grade school who knows what she called herself before acquiring the "Xeniflores" in Guatemala?  I mean, how can we know Stalin's full birth name, and not Xeni's? --Petzl (talk) 14:37, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia requires a reliable source for such information. A grade school classmate or resident of a home town is not a reliable source. Jokestress (talk) 15:18, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

text: We are a different entity entirely than journalists. News does not 'break' at Wikipedia, especially when it comes to articles about living persons. A reliable source could be any notable, reliable say-so as to her first name.Yeago (talk) 22:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Her real first name 

message: How hard is it to actually pin down her age? Why are we just accepting random math instead of facts? If she's 37 (shaving off at least a decade, are we?) then I'm made of chocolatey nougat.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.108.123 (talk) 00:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age 

message: Cary Grant was born "Archibald Leach."
Prince was born "Prince Rogers Nelson."
Lady Gaga was born "Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta."
I found this out on Wikipedia.
Xeni Jardin was not born "Xeniflorès Jardin."
How is it that Wikipedia cannot inform us what her birth name is?--Petzl (talk) 10:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If you would bother to read one of the references in the article (currently ref. #4) you will see the quote, "Xeni Jardin, pronounced SHEH-nee zhar-DAN, isn't her given name. Jardin doesn't reveal that, she says, because she wants to avoid dangerous people from her past." That should explain why Wikipedia has not sent out a private investigator to dig up her real name, thank you. --Skol fir (talk) 16:40, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I might add that she herself has weighed in on the issue here, at Talk:Xeni_Jardin/Archive_0, and insists that her current legal name is "Xeni Jardin." She also denies any other names that have been floating out there in cyberspace. Really, who cares what her birth name was? If she does not want to reveal it herself, maybe we should just respect her wishes. This is a BLP, after all, where privacy must be protected. --Skol fir (talk) 17:32, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I repeat, for a BLP, "If she does not want to reveal it herself, maybe we should just respect her wishes." Did you not read her own contribution to the discussion at her Talk Page? Her rights trump yours in this case. --Skol fir (talk) 16:19, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Got it.  We do have to record her assumed name, and the various, eccentric pronunciations and contractions of her assumed name, but we (or perhaps just myself, you seemed very specific), are forbidden from the Tree of Knowledge of her actual birth name.--Petzl (talk) 01:51, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

text: The most likely set of events is she has some entirely uninteresting given name like "Susan Smith Hamm" and she feels embarrassed by it. Generally, people do not have an reasonable expectation of privacy regarding their birth name, birth place or other general biographical details. Frankly, I don't feel her wishes on the matter are of import. When you live a public life, academics have a responsibility to capture you as you are, not as you wish to be seen.67.0.213.91 (talk) 10:34, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This isn't exactly a case for Sherlock Holmes, just somebody who lives near a library with the Richmond Times-Dispatch on microfilm. Pop in the August 1980 reel, look for the obit of Glenn B. Hamm, and examine the list of survivors. You'll be able to improve the Glenn B. Hamm article with additional sourcing and have the satisfying solution to a very minor mystery. - Dravecky (talk) 06:53, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  How is it 5 years and still no consensus on her real name? 

message: Almost all of the citations are from Jardin's work. That's okay if they are citing her opinions, but many of them are citing in regard to fact. Generally, there is a conflict of interest when someone describes themselves. Works of autobiography can give insight into someone's attitudes, but they are generally less factual than scholarly works of biography by independent academics.
A lot of this article seems like self-promotion. I am neutral on the issue of xenisucks.com; I'm not aware of enough independent citations to demonstrate the scope of this controversy.
If there are no citations from independent sources, then the content must be trimmed. I can say that I erected the Eiffel Tower and cite my blog post: I erected the Eiffel Tower. It doesn't mean its true, though.
This article needs major work.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.0.213.91 (talk) 10:26, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Cory Doctorow, Xeni Jardin, Alice Taylor --Guy Macon (talk) 07:19, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schorlarly Article or Resume? 

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