Talk:Hutsuls

message: I recently cleaned up the text, and added but one Ukrainian link. If you read the edit yourselves, my goal was to strip away two things: bad grammar, and following Gebeleizis's comments, removing any bias. Many unnecessary references to Romania have been reinserted and strictly informative Ukrainian link was removed. I would like to revert these recent edits, but would prefer to talk them over before that.--tufkaa 18:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent edits

message: Greier: Removal of info is vandalism.  You have a pattern of removing references to Ukrainians with respect to Hutsuls, never mind that 99% of them (there are about 7 Hutsul villages in Romania) speak the Ukrainian/Rusyn language, etc.  The items you remove are the ones linking Hutsuls to other western Ukrainians in terms of folk culture (see the section above please) and the fact that Hutsuls have been a major source of inspiration to Ukrainian writers, playing a role comparable in western Ukrainian literature comparable to that of cowboys for Americans or cossacks for the rest of Ukraine.  I can only explain your actions by some sort of Romananian nationalist POV...Faustian 16:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greir's Changes 

message: Who the  told you that? I am a Hutsul ethnic and I can tell you, Mr., that in Romania, only in Suceava county, there are more than 25 Hutsul villages, plus about 10 Galician villages. Plus, in Maramures County, official, there are more than 40 000 Ukrainians (this meaning Hutsuls, Rusyns, Galicians...). Hutsuls ain't Romanian but ain't Ukrainian either. Hutsuls, Lemks, Boiks, Horals and Rusyns are part of the same people - the Carpathian one. So don't defend so much the newly invented Ukraine or Romania.
According to the Encyclopedia of Ukraine (put together at the University of Toronto) there are eight Hutsul settlements in Romania .  While your claims based on personal experience are interesting, with all due respect I do not think that they trump data from legitimate academic sources.  In addition to considering Hutsuls a distince nation, you seem to give the same designation to Galicians as well.  I also have personal experiences with Hutsuls - all of whom are Ukrainian nationalists, proud of their local traditions, dialect, etc.  And most Polish Horals are patriotic Poles. Faustian 16:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is where Wiki policy comes into place. It is nice that you personally attest to a poarticular number of villages or towens or people but it needs to be backed up somewhere in a printed source. Otherwise it is deemed unacceptable information for a Wiki article. All you need to do is place a link to any site or puboication that states this. Otherwise it is own research and is discounted. Bandurist 19:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What?! 7 villages?! 

message: Academics make mistakes (sometimes more often than we'd like). I am from the hutsul region of Bucovina, lived there most of my life and this is the list of villages where we have a significant segment of hutsul population (And which used to be almost exclusively hutsul before World War Two): Izvoarele Sucevei, Moldova-Suliţa, Benia, Breaza de Sus, Breaza, Măgura, Lupcina, Cosilava, Brodina, Brodina de Sus, Sodău, Zalomestra, Cunurschi, Dotulsca, Argel, Rosca, Damacusa, Ciumârna, Iedu, Cârlibaba, Moldoviţa, Vatra Moldoviţei, Ulma, Nisipitu, Paltin. Count them please, as they are many more than 7. I can count TWENTY FIVE. And I didn't even put on this list the villages from Maramures. I certainly know much better than those "academics" (and I'll soon get my PhD in phyics too at a US university) about what is happening in my home area. Also, as an academic paper, check this address which supports my view: http://www.afebalk.org/rencontres2002/textes/F.Beaumont.pdf (it's a PDF file in French). You can count all these 25 villages in the "Hutsul Country" (Pays HuTsule). And on this address: http://www.eliznik.org.uk/RomaniaHistory/minority-hutsul.htm you can count TWENTY EIGHT hutsul setlements in Romania. So, I think we should correct the mistake about the "eight hutsul setlements". Gebeleizis 18:46, 3rd of August 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the interesting information, but clam down please, no need to get so emotional about things.  I was wrong when I stated "about seven villages" in the discussion, above, when indeed my source claimed eight settlements, not villages (a settlement may consist of a few nearby villages).  The substance of what I said - that the overwhelming majority of Hutsuls live in Ukraine, not Romania, was correct. 
Your ideas about a seperate Hutsul nationality are interesting but contradict my own experiences with numerous Hutsuls and with several facts (for example, Hutsul-lands were a stronghold for the Ukrainian Insurgent Army which like all successful guerrilla movements relied on local support for survival; on the last census only about 10,000 people claimed Rusyn nationality).  Is your national orientation common among Hutsuls in Bukovyna or is it a more personal belief?  Is it shared among your people in Ivano-Frankivsk?  Incidentally, this blog describes a scene from a Hutzul wedding .  Respectfully Faustian 19:25, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Romania: 25 to 28 hutsul villages in Bucovina and some more in Maramures (check the links in the text please) 

message: My recent edit was based on a reliable source. This was the decission of local legislature of Rakhiv district, the region were the most of the population are Hutzuls.  This decission is in agreement with the census results: absolute majoritity of the eastern slavs living in the district declared their Ukrainian identity. 
If you have conflicting information, please cite reliable sources confirming it.--AndriyK 16:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent revert by user [[User:Rusyn]] 

message: I am Moravian, well versed in history, and I have never heard of this king. The spelling in any case is not Moravian, it would be Hecyl, if he existed. Please document your claim. V.B.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.119.60.101 (talk) 18:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It occurred to me later that what is meant here is Moravian Serbia, perhaps. I will correct the text, until an expert on Serbian kings comes along. V.B. 21:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  One more time: there was no Moravian king or duke Hetsyl or Hetsyla. Maybe there was one in Serbian Moravia, but the reference cited does not document anything. In fact, it sounds downright dubious about it. Why would a Serbian duke have anything with the Hutsuls anyway? V.B. (talk) 05:37, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moravian king Hetsyl? 

message: Is this group related at all to the Utsul? Badagnani (talk) 19:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt it, unless you're trying to connect the Utsul of southwest China with the Hutsuls of western Ukraine 5,000 miles to the west. Can you find any perceived Mongolian origin of the Utsul or Hutsul? The Hutsuls must be of Hungarian or Central Asian (Turkish) origins, since the two regions are close to both Hungary and mainland China. The Dzungar region of Xinjiang, China is the hypothetical point of origin for the Huns (known as Hsien-ko), Magyars in the 6th century AD and Mongols being closely related to Siberian tribes such as the Manchu whom taken over the Chinese Empire by the 12th century AD. Hutsuls may hold a link to the Hunnic tribes in eastern Europe in the 4th to 7th centuries AD, although it was only the Magyars whom permanently settled the Danube-Pannonian plains by the 8th to 9th centuries, before the Hutsuls had taken hold: the Hutsuls have a more ethnological Slavic than Magyar background, and they don't resemble anything near the Utsul of southern China. + 71.102.7.77 (talk) 08:41, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Utsul]] 

message: I have heard the term "hutsul" used as a generic insult in a context that would refer to uncouth, lazy-brained, ignorant peasants. Any precedent of this used more generically? it was a surprise to notice in the article the possible etymology as "robbers", maybe that had something to do with it? YamaPlos talk 19:03, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hutsul as an insult 

message: "According to Ukrainian sources, Hutsuls identify themselves as a part of Ukrainian ethnos, having at the same time their local identity as a sub-ethnos.[4] However, many Rusyns disagree." "However, many Rusyns disagree." Source? I myself am descendant of Hutsuls and they identified as Ukrainians. Now will Rusyns tell Hutsuls how to identify? Come on...186.18.229.205 (talk) 21:45, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Hutsuls, Ukrainians

message: Re: . Ok. Is there any reason these sources are being removed? Are they unreliable? What's up? Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:39, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  removal of sources 

message: It seems like there is a lot of political activism (rather than factual research) that has gone into this Wikipedia article.  Most Hutsuls consider themselves to be Ukrainians.    75.76.61.77 (talk) 12:25, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Activism 

message: I am a “hutsul” and speak romanian. The etymologic meaning in romanian language is not thief, as you said, but the same as the slavic meaning. The only conection between “hoțul” and “huțul” are that they are similar in form. If you’re interested in the subject or want to confirm for yourself what I said, I suggest, reading P.H. Stahl or Paul Petrescu on the matter.
Refering to : “There are different versions for the origins of the name Hutsul. An explanation is that it comes from the Romanian word for "outlaw" (cf. Rom. hoţ - "thief", hoţul - "the thief").”  — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArtPlease (talk • contribs) 07:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymologhy 

message: These edits are both POV and involve bad grammar. The sources given may not represent the general view. Volunteer Marek  22:30, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent edits 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Dear IP,
please stop content removal without consensus. Thank You!(KIENGIR (talk) 17:07, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  IP edits 

message: The issue is fairly simple:
* The citations do not actually back what is written, in fact some of the citations say the opposite (hence the intro statement changed on the 13th August 2018 is actually not verifiable and thus breaks Wikipedia's policy of verifiability)
* The un-referenced change made on the 13th August 2018 was not done with consensus e.g. "Wikipedia's verifiability policy requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations, anywhere in article space."
* Alot of people clearly disagree with the change made on the 13th August 2018
Since 2018 a niche of editors on this page have made a concerted effort to remove any mention of Ukraine or Hutsuls connection to them, this is unnecessary, this page should be a reflection of fact
The edit made on the 17th January, with more references than the 13th August version, that actually back what I have edited is the best way forward, the 17th January version acknowledges the fact that a minority of Hutsuls prefer the archaic 'Rusyn' whilst the majority and the official position OF THE WORLD HUTSUL CONGRESS GROUP is that they are part of a Ukrainian ethnicity.
This really should not be too much of a problem, considering the 13th August version was done with zero approval and there have been numerous attempts to undo it.
This page clearly does not appease both sides of the pendulum and I think it should please both.Dr Lintz Dobay (talk) 07:23, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  New edit or Reversion to Pre 13th August 2018 Idea

message: For the majority of them, the linked articles make no reference to their Hutsul ethnicity. So far it's just a long list of hearsay and "citation needed" cases. This also goes counter to Wiki policy regarding pinning an ethnicity on people, especially when still alive. I'm happy to believe they're all Hutsuls, but a claim by some editor is not yet proof. One is even explicitely identified as Lemko - is that synonymous to Hutsul?! Arminden (talk) 15:12, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Notable people": any proof they are Hutsuls?