Talk:Port Jervis, New York

message: I placed a book source on the article Port Jervis, New York, but I don't know if I did it properly or not. I did this: Port Jervis, Osterberg and Krakowiak, 2006. Port Jervis is the title of the book, Osterberg and Krakowiak are the authors, and 2006 is the copyright/publishing date.  NHRHS2010  talk  18:26, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Book source 

message: I came over here from WP:BLPN, where a user had posted information about a dispute on this article. I have reviewed the disputed text and checked the sources and think that the information complies with applicable standards such as WP:RS and WP:WEIGHT, is encyclopedic and (even if unpleasant) forms a significant part of the history of the town. I am posting this here in the hope of getting a dialog started, in place of the mutually assured deletion and reversion taking place now. I will wait a day or so and if no-one objects, will restore the deleted material. Jonathanwallace (talk) 23:14, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: He also cited another NYTImes article reporting a cross-burning in 1923 and stating there was still a KKK presence. And in the first Times article, a group of white men hanging a black man in the public square is a lynching, I don't think there is any room for doubt there. Jonathanwallace (talk) 00:36, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text re 1890's killing 

message: considering the fact that the events being discussed took place between 89 and 119 years ago and have not reflected the societal attitudes of the city for many many decades, i stongly urge the use of the historical society's language.   using the nytimes headline as a valid source is irresponsible as the content and context of the article is not easily available to the general public.  the historical society is well respected as the 'go to' source of historical information in the area.  24.164.172.76 (talk) 12:52, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: =

message: Respectfully, please consider the previous remarks as to why the NYTs articles are valid by Wikipedia criteria (including accessibility) and more accurately reflect the tone and nature of the events being described and the time during which they occur.   The MVHS article is lengthy, generic, and essentially obscures the events being documented.    It is my view that the originally cited references associated with the content statements are far superior, more specific and more appropriate overall than the alternate proposed by user 24.   The proposed alternate source can now be accessed via the external link to the historical society that I included last night.96.238.203.201 (talk) 14:04, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: =

message: I think some good progress has been made trying to resolve the differences here. The NY Times sources are about as reliable as Wikipedia sources get, see WP:RS (which also allows for pay sources and offline sources). I like the idea however of a more extensive reference to the Minisink page and suggest User 96 draft something and post it here on the Talk page for our review and discussion. Thanks, Jonathanwallace (talk) 14:34, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Summing Up

message: Thank you User Jonathanwallace for helping to facilitate what appears to be shaping up as a fair resolution that addresses the concerns posed by both myself and User 24 and may help to enhance the article overall.     I appreciate the opportunity to write a short, narrative text addendum to provide context, balance and the previously identified link to the Minisink Valley Historical Society article proposed by User 24.  While that task should not take me very long to complete, at the moment I am a bit pressed for time and kindly ask to be allowed 24-36 hours to provide draft material to this forum.   I suspect that I should be able to accomplish this in short order but, if acceptable, would appreciate having a bit of leeway as requested.  96.238.203.201 (talk) 02:33, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: =

message: Here is a draft of the proposed entry that is the subject of these discussions.   The only alteration made to the original content is a spelling change from "Klu" to "Ku."  I remain hopefully that we are nearing a win-win all the way around solution and am grateful for the education.   Thank you.
<<<>>>
One of the most shameful events in the history of Port Jervis was the widely witnessed and well-documented 1892 lynching of an African-American man by the name of Robert Lewis, whose murder was in the end dismissed by an Orange County grand jury for a lack of evidence. A strong Ku Klux Klan presence remained in Port Jervis until at least the mid-1920s.
For the sake of balance and context it must be noted that while historically important, as with other communities, these events represented rare and sensational extremes of human behavior that were not necessarily a part of  general day-to-day life in Port Jervis during the Gilded Age, that period in United States history when those events took place.
96.238.203.201 (talk) 05:44, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we basically have consensus. I will post a hybrid version of the two suggestions for comment later today. Jonathanwallace (talk) 13:45, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

text: Works for me.  I would recommend the use of "Ku" rather than "Klu" as that is the preferred spelling used by wikipedia.  96.238.203.201 (talk) 14:06, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

text: I am not sure there is a strictly observed standard, but I think it is the better practice to include the headlines, so please feel free to add them. Jonathanwallace (talk) 14:14, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: =

message: How about:
 On June 2, 1892,  Robert Lewis, an African American,  was lynched on East Main Street in front of the Baptist Church  in retaliation for a rape he may not have committed. The incident captured national interest and a special jury was convened, which declined to charge anyone for the crime.   
 
In the mid 1920's The Klu Klux Klan had a following in the area and crosses were burned at the top of Point Peter, the mountain top that overlooks Port Jervis. Regularly scheduled parades of Klan members were also conducted.
Let me know--  Jonathanwallace (talk) 13:26, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: My suggestion

message: Users 96 and 24, I have made a version of the edit we agreed on. It consists of two additions to the history section, one referring to the lynching and one to the KKK. Both are cited to New York Times articles. I mention only the matters I could reliably source to the articles, so dropped the reference to the Baptist church and to the victim's possible innocence, as the news coverage at the time clearly states he was believed by everyone including the police to have participated in an assault. The sources, rather than saying the grand jury declined indictments, report that nine people were indicted and arrested, though I didn't see any follow up article reporting on whether anyone was convicted of the lynching. 
AS far as the Klan is concerned, I mention the crossburning but not the parades as I couldn't find a source for this. 
I hope this is satisfactory to everyone, and welcome further discussion if there are proposed edits to my additions.  I've enjoyed working with you to reach consensus on this issue. Jonathanwallace (talk) 13:20, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure there is a strictly observed standard, but I think it is the better practice to include the headlines, so please feel free to add them. Jonathanwallace (talk) 14:14, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit 

message: Greetings,
The external link to pj.pride.com appears to be inconsistent with Wikipedia guidelines for such urls.
The inconsistencies would seem to include at least the following examples shown in the Wikipedia:External links policy section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:EL
 
  Links normally to be avoided
* Links mainly intended to promote a website
* Links to blogs, personal web pages and most fansites, except those written by a recognized authority.
   Advertising and conflicts of interest
* "...in line with Wikipedia policies, you should avoid linking to a site that you own, maintain, or represent—even if WP guidelines seem to imply that it may otherwise be linked."
Respectfully, I have again removed the external link in question and trust that the guidelines cited above are helpful. 96.238.203.201 (talk) 20:58, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiki external links policy 

message: I just removed this material:
According to local lore, Point Peter/ Elks Brox Memorial Park was the inspiration for Washington Irving's "Rip Van Winkle".
R. Winkle tale specifically mentions "the lordly Hudson." Is"local lore" in Port Jervis based in illiteracy? Irving would enjoy!
Badiacrushed (talk) 12:56, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Rip Van Winkle

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:06, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion