Talk:Erich Schumann

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 09:49, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: I am adding a  template to the article because the sentence "his role in the project was obfuscated after the war by German physics community apologia" in the lead, and similar statements in the body of the article, particularly in the "Post World War II" section, are clearly presenting an opinion rather than presenting facts in a neutral manner. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:28, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I may not be able to comment due to my personal standards as a 3O Wikipedian (linked in the disclaimer section, above), but before we get that far I'm not quite sure what you're proposing. I've created aworkpage (click here)as a subpage of my user page with the full existing text of the article (except for categories). Would you just go ahead and make the proposed change there so that we can see exactly what you want to do? Leave a note here so folks will know that it has been done. I'll leave it up for a few days after you've done that. Regards, TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 17:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Let's see if the other editor weighs in. — TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 19:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not believe that the revised article still has undue weight problems as you have proposed to revise it. I'd suggest that you go ahead and make the change in the article itself. I'm going to take down the workspace page. — TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 13:37, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:NPOV]] issues 

message: The sentence “His role in the project was obfuscated after the war by German physics community apologia.” is an accurate statement concerning Erich Schumann and it reflects the published findings of historians, such as Mark Walker and Klaus Hentschel. The well-documented section “Post World War II” lays out some specifics.
The myth of the German atomic bomb was a highly visible part of postwar apologia. The apologia was that a small group of Nazis had taken control, but they had been removed. Note that the real leaders of the German nuclear energy project, Abraham Esau, Erich Schumann, and Kurt Diebner, were ostracized after the war. Hence the German scientific community denied its past and purged itself of the Nazi elements, thus making way for their acceptance back into the international scientific community. Mark Walker, in his book “German National Socialism and the Quest for Nuclear Power 1939 – 1949” [pp. 231-232], said: “The role of Heisenberg as spokesman for the German nuclear power project was important for the apologia as well, for his erroneous claim, that he had been in control of nuclear power research, was accepted uncritically by friends and critics alike. In part, this acceptance is to be attributed to the perception of science by scientists and laymen as reducible to the work of a few ‘great’ scientists. Control is the key aspect of the apologia, for only if Heisenberg and his colleagues had been in command of their research, could their claim, that they had steered it deliberately away from nuclear weapons and towards ‘peaceful nuclear energy,’ appear believable.” 
I firmly believe the material in the works of the historians Walker and Hentschel, as cited in the Wikipedia article on Erich Schumann, warrant removal of the NPOV tag.Bfiene (talk) 14:59, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Support for Removal of NPOV

message: I appreciate the role of Phil Bridger and TransporterMan in this issue. From their suggestions, I propose replacing the text in questions as noted herein.
For the sentence in the introduction, I propose: His role in the project was obfuscated after the war by the German physics community’s defense of its conduct during the war.
For the Post World War II section I propose the following (in Ref  #17, in the Wikipedia article, the parenthetical text on the Goudsmit/Heisenberg controversy will be elimianted):
In the German scientific community’s defense of its conduct during the war, the military’s Schumann and Diebner led aspects of the Uranverein were minimized, ridiculed, and ascribed to Nichtskönner (incompetent scientists) and leadership that owed its positions to politics. Additionally, the Heisenberg component of the project was made to appear as the leading and dominant element of the project. The motivations of the German scientists were to distance themselves from the military aspects of the Uranverein and, in the denazification environment, also distance themselves from those who had visible positions under National Socialism. Regarding Schumann’s scientific abilities, they are, however, attested to by the fact that members of his Habilitation committee for experimental and theoretical physics at the University of Berlin included the eminent scientists Max von Laue, Walther Nernst, and Max Planck, and the Habilitation was well before Hitler came to power.
After the war, Schumann wrote a book to get out his view of the German nuclear energy project, but publication was blocked by the British occupation authorities. Telling of some of the story from this perspective would have to wait until his right-hand man in the HWA, Kurt Diebner, published his book in 1957.
Again from 1951, Schumann was director of the Helmholtz Institute of Sound Psychology and Medical Acoustics in Berlin. He died in Homberg-Hülsa.
I look forward to commentary by Phil Bridger, TransporterMan, or anyone else, and a resolution to this issue. Let me know. Thanks. Bfiene (talk) 16:54, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I may not be able to comment due to my personal standards as a 3O Wikipedian (linked in the disclaimer section, above), but before we get that far I'm not quite sure what you're proposing. I've created aworkpage (click here)as a subpage of my user page with the full existing text of the article (except for categories). Would you just go ahead and make the proposed change there so that we can see exactly what you want to do? Leave a note here so folks will know that it has been done. I'll leave it up for a few days after you've done that. Regards, TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 17:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested Replacement Text for NPOV Issue 

message: I have posted the changes to the workspace page created by TransporterMan. Bfiene (talk) 19:11, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's see if the other editor weighs in. — TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 19:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not believe that the revised article still has undue weight problems as you have proposed to revise it. I'd suggest that you go ahead and make the change in the article itself. I'm going to take down the workspace page. — TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 13:37, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes Posted to the Workspace Page