Talk:Count Ferdinand Ernst Gabriel von Waldstein

message: ===Introduction===
I believe that the statement that Waldstein held the rank of lieutenant-general in the British Army needs not only a citation but a very solid one.
There is much on the web about Waldstein's military activity, crediting him with ranks up to field marshal, but most appears to be the "Chinese whispers" sort of reports with which the web (and many scholarly books) are beset. I can find no persuasive evidence that Waldstein served in any military capacity above that of lieutenant-colonel or colonel, that he served for any substantial period, or that he ever served as an officer in the British Army, permanent or temporary.
Here's what I have so far.
It would appear that Waldstein raised a unit of about 1,200 men in Waldeck, Germany, in 1795, took them to England in 1796, and that 800 were sent to the West Indies in 1797, where they were reduced by fever to 500 men.  (It is not clear whether the 1,200 target was ever raised.)  This is consistent with Wallace's statement that Walstein's [sic] Foreign Light Infantry were drafted into Fourth Battalion of the 60th Foot at Martinique on 30 December 1797.  (The King's German Legion had not yet been formed).
The conjecture that Waldstein was not, up to this point, serving in the British Army is supported by (a) the fact that his unit was a German unit at the service of the British crown ; (b) his remaining men were "drafted" into a British Army regiment (although that might have meant "transferred"). Incidentally, the principality of Waldeck was noted for hiring out small military units to the service of other countries.
At this point, Waldstein seems to drop from military sight altogether.  He does not appear to have gone into the 60th with his men.  I tried to find him.
===Scope of Search===
I searched computer-interpreted images of text in (a) The London Gazette, the official publication of promotions and reductions of British officers, (b) British newspapers from 1795 to 1810 in British Library collections that are available in two different but overlapping collections, and (c) Google search (which includes Google Books).
I looked for both "Waldstein" and "Walfstein", to allow for contemporary typeface, which was moving from "f" to "s" for the letter "s" around this time.  I also looked for "Walstein" and "Walftein".
I also searched visually the photocopies of annual Army Lists for 1796, 1797, 1800 and 1806.
Most searches were limited to 1795-1808 or 1795-1810, but the Google searches were unbounded.
===References to "Waldstein" -- Waldstein's Regiment===
There are several mentions of Waldstein's regiment in British newspapers up to their departure for the West Indies.  The first is in 1796, when (presumably on their way to England) they were disarmed and escorted out of Hanover, on the order of their prospective employer, for attempting to cross Hanover in violation of its neutrality.  Their arrival at Portsmouth en route for the Isle of Wight was reported, as was their helping to put  out a fire in a bakery on the island.
The London Gazette for January 1798, and the army lists, show junior officers from "Waldstein's" (Regiment) being commissioned into the British Army, in the 60th Foot, at the ranks they held in the German regiment, but Waldstein himself does not appear.  The search was computer search of text images, so some omissions are likely.
Nor does Waldstein appear in press reports until a report in the Hampshire Telegraph of the court martial in 1803 of Henrik Johan Schmitt, former adjutant in Waldstein's Light Infantry, who was now (it's a long story) a pay serjeant in the Royal Marines.
As reported in the Hampshire Telegraph, Schmitt said: "In Pyrmont I became acquainted with Col. Waldstein, who made me Adjutant of a German regiment, which he raised for the service of England."  Later, he said that the funds entrusted to him (as a pay sergeant) had been stolen, he thought in a pub, and, afraid to report the loss, "I therefore departed for London, to seek my patron, Col. Waldstein, who stood indebted to me upwards of 60l. upon a recruiting account.  But [Waldstein] had departed for Cuxhaven [in Germany] nearly a week before."
This supports the supposition that Waldstein had a short military career as colonel (or lieutenant-colonel -- holders of both ranks are addressed as "Colonel") in a small (battalion-size) German regiment of his own raising, and is consistent with the premise that, when his unit was drafted out from under him (having not yet been in action, incidentally) he forsook his military aspirations and returned to civilian life. 
===References to "Waldstein" -- British official documents===
Waldstein does not appear in any issue of the London Gazette betweem 1795 and 1810.  The search was computer search of text images, so some omissions are likely.
Waldstein does not appear in any of the Army Lists for 1797, 1798, 1800 or 1806.  This search was visual, in the index, the lists of all field and general officers, and the regimental lists of the 60th Foot.
===References to "Waldstein" -- Other===
The achievements of senior officer earning higher promotion might be expected to appear in the press.
Only two mentions of Waldstein himself, other than the one at Schmitt's trial, showed in the press searches.  Both were articles that briefly described creditable performances by "Count Waldstein" in amateur dramatics in Twickenham (before invited audiences).
===References to "Walstein" (omitting the "d")===
I have found only one reference to a military Walstein, and it was not Count Ferdinand.
The Oxford Journal gives an obviously fictitious anecdote "from a French Paper" about a General Walstein, but the general in question turns out to be Albrect von Wallenstein, whose name was often rendered as Walstein in 18th- and 19th-century texts.  The essence of the anecdote is very similar to an anecdote much re-printed in Britain and America in which Wallenstein (Walstein) threatens to hang his page, but does not, while its context (the corn field) may have been inspired by the strict policy of Gustavus Adolphus against misuse of the civilian population by his troops.  The relevant paragraph in Harte's account includes an allusion to "Walstein", who, from the historical context (and from many other mentions in the book), is unmistakably Wallenstein.
===Inconsistency of modern sources===
An original statement that Waldstein was a lieutenant-general in the British army has been widely copied.  (I do not know its origin.)  It has also been varied, quite implausibly.
The Waldstein web site says that he was a colonel-general in the British army.  No such rank has ever existed in the British army, nor did it exist at that time in any of the German armies (it first appeared in the Prussian army some time later).
Grove, usually among the most reliable of all sources, says that he served in the British army as a field marshal from 1795 to 1807.  Well, leaving aside the fact that he was Colonel of a German regiment in 1795, not a British one, the notion that he became a British field marshal is fantastic.  In 1806, there were three field marshals in the British army: two of the king's sons (Frederick, a soldier of great distinction, and Edward, Queen Victoria's father), and Marquess Townsend.  The future Duke of Wellington would not reach that rank for a few years yet.  The notion that a minor Bohemian nobleman of little military experience and improvident character would achieve it upon his arrival on these shores must surely be dismissed (apart from his absence from official records).
So, we have three versions of his rank that contradict contemporary evidence (and that contradict reasonable probability, given what we know about Waldstein).  Two of the three are clearly wrong, even though one of these is from a very reputable source.  Is there reason to suppose the third to be correct?
===Legal Impediments===
I found the following after I had written all the stuff above (which should be re-written in the light of it, but that would be too much effort).
Inexperience:
:Ferdinand could not have entered the British Army at the rank he held in his own unit, because he did not have sufficient military experience.  The reasons are explained by the Secretary at War, Lord Palmerston, in a reply to a parliamentary motion in 1812:
::Temporary rank [...] was conferred on those who raised men, or performed other service, for the purpose of obtaining high commissions, without proceeding by the previous steps of promotion, and were precluded from precedence and command, except in the particular corps in which the rank was obtained.
:If that was the case for our own regimental colonels (who did not usually command even their  own regiments in the field if they were in that category), exceptions would hardly be made for foreigners.  Waldstein's regiment was disbanded; if he had wanted to continue, he would have had to join the British army as a junior officer, which would not have been an attractive prospect.
Restrictions on Aliens:
:Prior to the creation of the King's German Legion in 1803,The King's German Legion began as The King's German Regiment when Napoleon occupied Hanover and Hanoverian units escaped to Britain (the British king was also Elector of Hanover).  It grew to be a legion of great size during the course of the Napoleonic wars. a number of German units, including Waldstein's, were drafted into the British army in the rapidly-expanding 60th Regiment.  The Acts of Parliament that authorised the expansions (reprinted in Wallace) allowed foreigners to be commissioned but prohibited their rising above the rank of lieutenant-colonel.  Waldstein could not have been made a general even if he had been a military genius.Baron Francis de Rottenburg, who joined the 60th about that time, was promoted and knighted, but after he was fully naturalised.  Rottenburg was a distinguished soldier, and his naturalisation papers were signed by the Commander-in-Chief of the Army, His Royal Highness Field Marshall Prince Frederick, Duke of York and Albany.  Count Ferdie was not in that league.  Also, the various Acts of Parliament confined aliens' commissions to specified overseas territories and units, although that was later either relaxed, or quietly ignored by the War Office.
:It is clear from the Parliamentary debate on 10 March 1812 that some relaxation of the relevant laws followed the formation of the German Legion, and that in the years following, the War Office increasingly pushed or overstepped the new boundaries.  They would not have attempted to do so in the years before (or soon after) 1803, nor would they have got away with it (quite apart from the fact that in Ferdie's case, they had no reason to wish to).
===Conclusion===
On the evidence,
* Waldstein does not appear to have had any military experience of consequence (the by now mainly honorific title of Kompur in the ancient Teutonic Order hardly qualifies);
* for about two and a half years, he was colonel or lieutenant-colonel of a German regiment that he raised for hire to the UK as a contribution to the war against Bonaparte;
* Around the turn of 1797/1798, the British army drafted his troops and offered commissions to many or most of his officers up to the rank of captain;
* Waldstein appears to have walked away (he was probably not given a choice -- the British army will have had little use for him);
* he is not to be found in either of the main sources of information about the careers of British army officers (the London Gazette and the Army List);
* after his regiment was discontinued he is found variously in Germany and Twickenham;
* no mention of any military achievement has emerged;
* under British army procedure, his route to colonelcy precluded him from promotion, and from being let loose as a colonel outside the regiment of his own raising -- even had he been a British subject;
* at the time his regiment was disbanded, and for some time years after, aliens were barred by statute from holding a British rank above lieutenant-colonel or command in a home unit.
In short, it would appear that his connection with the British army was a couple of years as dilittanti colonel of a German regiment that he had raised himself for hire to UK service.  He does not appear to have served in the British army at all, at any rank; the law did not allow him to be a British general, and there is no reason to imagine that any other country would wish to make him one.
===Notes===
===References===
Wyresider (talk) 15:41, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Waldstein -- Fact or Urban Myth? 

message: Wyresider (talk) 15:41, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: There are quite a lot, so they are summarised here instead of in the "edit summary box" (which refers to here).
Changes
Further to the post about W not being a lt.-gen,
* Statement that he was a British lt.-gen. replaced by colonel of his own regiment;
* Statement that he left the British Army in 1807 deleted;
* Links to British Generals and Napoleonic Commanders deleted.
Other changes to content:
* Deleted "Evidence suggests that he was sometimes with his regiment ..."; there was no indication of what evidence, and his being with his regiment can be assumed unless there is reason to suppose otherwise;
* Minor typos (eg "[it] remain famous" to "remains").
Logistic changes:
* Renamed "Notes" to "References", not because I was pedantically following Wiki guidelines but simply because I needed "Notes" for footnotes;
* Merged "References" and "Sources" because the functionality of the split form wasn't actually being used (except for Suchet, where it was misused by cross-duplication and the link was broken anyway) and the split form was getting too unwieldy to edit.
Additions
* A bit more about his Regiment, leading to his (presumed) return to civilian life;
* Mentioned that he wasn't in London full-time;
* Mentioned his am-dram activity in London;
* Under "Patron", added about LvB ghost-writing W's Ritterballet.
Matters Remaining
* The Suchet reference link is broken -- it goes to a page about diets and recipes.  Can anybody fix it?
* A lot of the old text needs citation.  A citation was given for Ferdie being the dedicatee of the Waldstein sonata, which few would question, but many obscure but (in the scope of the article) important facts about his life and activity are stated without justification.  For example, the bit about the "Mergentheim regiment" ... The only occurrences of this phrase that Google found were copies of the text of this article and literal translations of the same (not counting the sequence "(Wo?) „Mergentheim“. (Regiment?) „Regiment 122“." in a transcription of an interview in 1900 in a 1903 German psychiatric journal).  Can the original author help?
* Is it worth mentioning that the day Ferdinand died in poverty he learned that he had inherited the wealth of a brother who died two days before?  (I can't remember where I read that.)
* I've removed the links to lists of British generals, etc, but I'll give discussion of this edit a chance to blow up and settle down before removing his nibs from the linked-to pages.
Remarks
* I may have gone a bit overboard on references, but there is so much fog and misinformation surrounding Count Ferdinand that I thought it best to err on the side of too many rather than too few (see under "Matters Remaining" above).
* Beware of red herrings and disguises when researching Waldstein -- inheritance of the rank of Graf was not limited by primogeniture, so there were an awful lot of Counts Waldstein, including Ferdinand's brothers and Lord knows how many distant cousins.  During the Napoleonic wars, at least four Counts Waldstein (quite likely more) were officers in the Austrian army (I assume Ferdinand's soldier brother Franz was one, and three others appear in various sources).  Two Counts Waldstein reached the rank of Generalmajor (which was then only brigade rank rather than divisional rank in German usage).  "Waldstein" was frequently mis-spelled as "Walstein" in the press and even in more formal texts.  And of course, "General Wal(d)stein" in old books usually refers to Waldstein a.k.a. Wallenstein, the 17C generalissimo.
Wyresider (talk) 19:53, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wyresider's Edits 8/08/17 

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