Talk:Valerie Amos, Baroness Amos

message: It's a school which is PART of a university (appx. equivalent to a college of the university). Thus, she has never 'led a university'. That would have required her to be vice-chancellor of London University (for example).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.97.118.231 (talk) 15:48, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: SOAS is not a 'university'

message: This needs to be merged with Baroness Amos, which came first but has the wrong title (oops, my fault). I think the opening para is better in the other (but I would say that, as I wrote it). --rbrwr
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Does this not violate Crown Copyright - http://www.privy-council.org.uk/output/Page7.asp. -- Emsworth 02:30, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)
:Tim Starling considered it "similar but sufficiently different to press release" on 7 June 2003; I accepted this without checking. It is clearly very similar. A version started by me, which is shorter and more thoroughly rewritten (though still based on the same source) can be found in the history of Baroness Amos. --rbrwrˆ
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Why the hell does this article go chronologically backwards? Someone wikify it. (I'd reorder it right now but I don't have the time.) --84.68.200.235 23:27, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The article does not say why she was made a life peer.  If anyone knows, please add it to the article.
PainMan 22:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why was she created a life peer? 

message: In the section mentioning Baroness Amos being the first deputy head girl at her school, why is this followed in brackets with "(Head Girl - Lesley Hodgkiss)"?  Pardon my ignorance, but is Lesley Hodgkiss famous in her own right?  She has no Wikipedia page.  I think this mention of Lesley Hodgkiss should be removed - it looks like the sort of thing only Lesley Hodgkiss herself would have inserted...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.210.172.98 (talk) 17:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Head Girl Lesley Hodgkiss 

message: Why is it mentioned that she never married nor had any kids? Is it necessary for a woman to marry and have kids so much so, that not doing so merits a special mention? I don't think so. I think Wikipedia needs to report what the person was doing, not what the person wasn't doing. It's totally middle-ages to comment about women not marrying or having kids Noomch (talk) 04:19, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be mentioned in a man's article too. Most of our articles on celebrities of both genders mention whether or not they're married and have any children. It's just part of the general information about a person that belongs in any complete biography. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:40, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Private Life 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The lead section says that: "in September 2015 Amos was appointed Director of SOAS, University of London, becoming the first black woman to lead a university in the United Kingdom." What about the Baroness Benjamin who has been Chancellor of the University of Exeter since 2006? Does she not count?--The Traditionalist (talk) 07:21, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: No it doesn't. The position of Chancellor in universities in the United Kingdom, is titular or a title of honour, carrying with it few responsibilities which are almost purely ceremonial, chancellors are not involved in the day-to-day running of the institution. Think of a university chancellor as being the ‘honorary president’ of a society, nominally important but in practice they hold no responsibility. In most universities it is the holder of the post of 'vice chancellor' who is the actual head of the university, however as SOAS is part of the University of London the title of Director is used instead. Directorships/vice chancellorships are full-time jobs who are actually in charge of running their institutions, that is they are a title of authority,. While I'm sure Baroness Benjamin is involved in many important and worthy activities she definitely has never led a university. Ebonelm (talk) 13:03, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Greetings. Thank you for your swift answer! I did not know that it was so easily clarifiable, still I was almost certain that that was the case. However, in countries with ceremonial heads of state, say, Israel, the verb "to lead" might be used... I suppose that it would not be utterly inappropriate to say that Zalman Shazar led Israel during the Six-Day War. Thus, as the verb is -admittedly, arbitrarily- usable, even for ceremonial positions, there could be a side-note referring to Lady Benjamin. It looks as if she has been overlooked...--The Traditionalist (talk) 16:46, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  First black woman 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This entry is clearly a propaganda piece which fails to mention that since her appointment to SOAS she has: 
- Overseen the beginning of an enormous new round of course cuts objected to by almost all the staff and students in the school.
- Physically intervened to break picket lines. 
- Unfairly suspended a worker just for being a union organizer. 
- Agreed to a new outsourcing contract for cleaners opposed by staff and students which stripped further rights from the lowest paid workers in the university.
- Promoted a number of BAME scholarships which outright exclude applications from white students.
- Rejected the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA)'s definition of antisemitism.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrEarlGray (talk • contribs) 15:18, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where's the criticism? 

message: I have replaced the following text "Baroness Amos was made International Development Secretary after the incumbent, Clare Short, resigned from the post in the run-up to the US and UK 2003 invasion of Iraq. Although she ostensibly worked in development, she toured African countries that held rotating membership of the Security Council, encouraging them to support the attack." The first part of this is wrong, despite saying she would resign and being expected to do so if the UK entered the War with Iraq, Short in fact stayed on until after the invasion, finally resigning in May 2003 over the UN draft resolution on the reconstruction of Iraq. I have amended the text to reflect this with sources (it is also clear from the date that Baroness Amos was not Secretary of State prior to the UK involvement in Iraq). The second part of the text is uncited and to me comes across as point of view. Moreover it cannot be fully accurate as, as I have noted. Baroness Amos was not the International Development Secretary at this time. She was however a Minister at the Foreign Office as well as speaking on International Development in the Lords (as it did not have a fulltime minister in the Lords at this point), so there might be some confusion because of this. So if she was at this time lobbying for support of the UK's position, it did not necessarily conflict with her ministerial responsibilities as implied. However in any case we need a source to support the claim that she was encouraging support for the forthcoming Iraq War. Dunarc (talk) 19:46, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing incorrect and questionable text 

message: @Peter Ormond The media coverage of Amos' appointment to the Order of the Garter is extensive as listing Amos as the first black member:   . Do you have any sources to validate the opposing claim? This seems like a key aspect of the appointment that we're missing with the way currently constructed within the article. Best, Darren-M talk 12:08, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: There are hundreds of sources saying that Emperor Selassie was given the Garter in 1954. So in Baroness Amos's article one can use the phrases "the first black woman", "the first British black member", or "the first non-supernumerary black member".  Peter Ormond 💬 13:11, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Peter Ormond I don't think it's in dispute that Selassie was appointed as a Stranger Knight, yet clearly the sources linked above are not considering that individual to have been a member - hence the reporting of her as the first black person. I think your suggested turns of phrase add complexity and qualification that isn't needed - albeit, would be good to get more views? Darren-M talk 17:28, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand how a Stranger Knight of the Garter, can't be the Order's member? All Knights and Ladies appointed till today, 1016 of them, including supernumerary ones, have all been members of the Order. Are you saying that a Stranger Knight, is not necessarily a member of the Order? How is this possible?   Peter Ormond 💬 19:12, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Peter Ormond The sources are unanimous in making that distinction, as far as I can see? Darren-M talk 23:56, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: All supernumerary Knights and Ladies are members of the Order. They are just "extra" members. The Independent source  says "According to the Palace she [Baroness Amos] will now be the first black person appointed Lady Companion of the Order". Can't we just go with that?  Peter Ormond 💬 14:37, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  First black Garter member 

message: Graham Usher (bishop) recently Tweeted a photograph of St George's Chapel.[]
Behind the banner of Sir Thomas Dunne is one I have not seen before. I presume this belongs to Lady Amos. It is obviously per saltire Gules and Or but I don't recognise the symbol on it. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Garter banner