Talk:St Albans/Archive 1

message: I like this setup now. 
I have removed the Abbey from the list of the notable buildings because the cathedral entry explains the cathedral was previously the abbey. Are they really two separate entities that a visitor could see as two spearate buildings? 194.117.133.118 14:08 Dec 27, 2002 (UTC)
Technically, it's a cathedral, but locals still refer to it as the Abbey RatherConfused 15:50, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup.  Actually the Cathedral and Abbey Church of St Alban.  Not sure how many other churches there are which are simlarly designated, actually - it may be unique. - Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C]  16:02, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Shouldn't the Abbey be mentioned in the lede? It's really the reason for the existence of the town and mainly what tourists come to see. Alansplodge (talk) 12:20, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Abbey

message: City & District of St Albans                         	City & District of St Albans
Geography                                            	Geography
Status:                                              	District
Region:                                              	East of England
Admin. County:                                       	Hertfordshire
Area:- Total                                         	Ranked 205nd161.8 km²
Admin. HQ:                                           	St Albans
ONS code:                                            	26UG
Demographics                                         	Demographics
Population:- Total (2002 est.)- Density              	Ranked 139th128,889767 / km²
Ethnicity:                                           	93.1% White1.3 Bangladeshi (largest minority)
Politics                                             	Politics
St Albans District Councilhttp://www.stalbans.gov.uk/	St Albans District Councilhttp://www.stalbans.gov.uk/
Leadership:                                          	Leader & Cabinet
Executive:                                           	No overall control
MP:                                                  	Kerry Pollard(St Albans)Peter Lilley (Harpenden)
Anone think this would be useful? It's adapted from one on the Stevenage page. That one also has a map, but I don't really do graphics, so if anone else wants to....Icundell 11:17, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good post it  Lumos3 22:16, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: And had I actually followed a link I would have found it already exisitns on the City and District of St Albans page. Oh well, at least it prompted be to review the structure of the page.Icundell 17:30, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  stats table 

message: Honestly,shouldn't this article be at Saint Albans rather than any abbreviated version?
As I understand it,the omission of the dot after abbreviations is something that has arisen in the late 20th century in Britain,while the dropping of apostrophes from names that are considered possessives is a conceit of the US Board of Geographic Names (I would fire them all and replace them with opponents of this policy if I ever became President of the United States!) that may or may not have similarly-minded counterparts in Britain.But regardless,if the word "Saint" is part of the place's official name the alphabetization and article placement should not be under "St" but under "Sa".--Louis E./le@put.com/ 12.144.5.2 01:07, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: In every common use, everywhere, the simple 'St' form is predominant. It is what is used on all official documentation, maps and road signs. Modern usage drops the redundant full stop.  The possesive apostrophe has not been used in the name of the city since at least 1897, when the Ordnance Survey produced some rather wonderful 1:2500 scale maps, repros of which I have open in front of me.  Nobody, looking for St Albans, would search for Saint Albans or Saint Alban's and redundant periods are just a pain. I can't speak for other places. That's their business. Read back and you will note that this discussion has kinda been had, including a cite to Fowler's. If you don't know what Fowler's is, you shouldn't be posting this kind of query Icundell 01:36, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: Just to add to the well-made point above, locals (of which I used to be one) refer to the place when spoken as "SntAlbans" (ie almost as one word) and all maps, gazeteers, etc. will use "St Albans". You might just as well change all references to the US Capital City to "Washington Distict of Columbia" rather than "Washington DC"; we need to reflect actual usage rather than perceived historical correctness (imho, ymmv, etc). --VampWillow 16:06, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well,I continue to disagree (to me a full stop is an indispensable identification of an abbreviation as such).One ordinarily sees Washington,D.C. and not Washington,DC in my experience.And people say "Dee Cee",pronouncing the abbreviation,while nobody says "St" with an S and T sound (only) when they refer to Saint Alban's.In any event a reference work should correct common usage,not submit to it.--Louis E./le@put.com/ 12.144.5.2 17:26, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: A book one looks to to find things out ought to know better than one does oneself...not simply reflect popular misconception.I note that Whitaker's Almanack only removed the vital periods from abbreviations much later than you're trying to imply,and I think this a change for the worse,even if Fowler didn't.You can rest assured that if I ever write a dictionary,it will be carefully prescriptive rather than descriptive;the more information-based a society becomes the greater the stake in ending changes in usage in order to keep the repository of recorded knowledge intelligible to future generations.--Louis E./le@put.com/ 12.144.5.2 22:19, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: I've heard of Fowler (and Murray,and Onions,and Burchfield...) but am unafraid to question their preferences.--Louis E./le@put.com/ 12.144.5.2 05:27, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Abbreviation Appropriate??

message: Please don't removed AL3 and AL4 as postcodes. AL3 (which I added in March) covers the New Greens and Batchwood area, AL4, as another person notes, covers Marshalswick. Icundell 15:42, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Postcode 

message: I moved this out:
"==Atmosphere==
Herfordshire is unfairly often labelelled as a somewhat bland and uninteresting county. St Albans is certainly the jewel in the County crown in this case. It has an extensive and dynamic nightlife including a good deal of public houses and restaurants crowded into a relatively confined area. Anyone wishing to walk around the main town centre and surrounding streets will be rewarded with many interesting archeological treats such as the Roman Verulamium and historic treasures such as St Albans Cathederal. St Albans also has an unfair distribution of 'wonkey' streets and half timbered buildings which date back to the 16th century.
"
since I cant see what it adds that isn't alreadyt in the article and also it is not exactly encyclopeadic. Comments? Icundell 11:11, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atmosphere 

message: I've removed this from the article becuase it woefully unbalances it. May I suggest that it is more appropriate for an articel on the cricket club itself?
"The cricket club in St Albans, has a long history. The club has been one of the premier clubs in the Hertfordshire league for many years and has regularly challenged for league honours. The earliest recorded match involving St Albans we have found dates back to 1805 when a combined Rickmansworth and Uxbridge took on St Albans in two day game in Cassiobury Park. The combined team were victors by an innings and 20 runs, despite St Albans fielding Frederick Beauclerk and Silver Billy Beldham. The following year a return match was played at Lords with almost the same sides competing again, however this time St Albans emerged victorious by 21 runs. 
By the 1820s St Albans was considered the strongest club in the county, on the 30, 31 August 1828 St Albans challeneged challenged the rest of Hertfordshire to a match at St Albans, justifying odds of 5 to 4 on them by winning by 4 wickets. At this time the shoe-maker brothers G. and J. Taylor were both fine batsmen, and J. Lacey an excellent bowler. Also playing at this time were Lord Grimston and Hon E.H. Grimston who batted at 8 and 9. A return match was played a fortnight later at Ware Park, which was won by the county by a similar margin. On 19 August 1830, the Mercury proclaimed St Albans as the Champiions of the county, provoking the Welwyn Club's Secretary to issue a challenge to "play St Albans or any other club again and again". Welwyn had beaten St Albans once by 5 wickets and lost the return only by 2 runs, and were understandably unhappy about the Mercury's claim. St Albans brothers J. And G. Taylor responded to the Welwyn challenge by going to Welwyn, where they found the Welwyn club declined to play either at No Man's Land or at the St Albans (which according to the rules of cricketing the challenging parties were required to do). The brothers wrote to the Mercury expressing Welwyn's failure to play, and further stating : " We also beg to state we have no objection to play any two brothers for 5 or 10 pounds a side. We should prefer the two Otways. Our money is ready at the Bell Inn, St Albans." There was no record of any games having resulted from this letter. 
The next few years saw a period of inactivity for the St Albans club. The Mercury was quick to point out " The town club, which but a season past, was so far famed as champion of the county, seems to be buried in oblivion, we know not whether from a lack of its patrons or a want of a proper unanimity between its players. While a few games were played over the next few years against Hatfield, and Redbourn, it was not unitl the late 1850s that the club regained its former reputation. In 1865 the club moved next to Christchurch on Verulam Road, where Worley Road now stands. At the same time the club introduced an unpopular rule "No person living in St Albans who is not a member of the Club will be admitted to the ground". This unorthodox method of increasing membership, was forced to be quickly withdrawn after it had the reverse effect. Needless to say, it is rather different, and everyone is welcome to come and watch the team play at Clarence Park. The present St Albans club dates from 1898, the Clarence cricket club renamed itself to St Albans Town CC, and began to hire the Clarence Park ground that we use today for their home matches. 
The clubs most successful season of recent times was 1994. In this year the 1XI won the league, as did the 2XI, with the 3XI came close with 3rd place. We also won the Furnell Trophy, now known as the Becker cup. For many years the club has been used as the counties home ground and the excellent facilities, and setting at Clarence park reflect this. Many cricketing greats have played at the Clarence park ground including Ian Botham. From 1989-1992 Shane Thompson played for the club before gaining a regular place in the New Zealand test side. Today's cricket is doubtless very different to that played at the beginning of the twentieth century, but I am sure it was every bit as competitive back then. 
Taken in part from "Cricket in Hertfordshire" by R.G.Simons (president H.C.C.C) Thanks also to Jim Hind, Former Chairman St Albans Cricket Club."
Icundell 13:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from article - too long (cricket) 

message: Can you change the MP details from Kerry Pollard (Labour) to Ann Main (Conservative)? However she may not last much longer as she has been caught fiddling her expenses  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.129.242 (talk) 22:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  MPdetails 

message: This claim is dubious - at 20 miles from London it would make a good overnight stop if you were walking, but by horse it would have been the first horse-change and meal stop.
Unless someone complains and comes with a reference, I will change this suitably. Pemboid (talk) 07:28, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overnight coaching stop 

message: Is there any good reason why the topmost image in this article is the Ziggurat rather than some more established icon of the city, such as the Cathedral, the Clock Tower, or the Abbey Gatehouse? AlexTiefling (talk) 11:28, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ziggurat?