Talk:Joe E. Ross

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thread_title: File:JER.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: Okay, I took a look at the WFMU article and I have some mixed feelings and questions. 
*Reliability for small matters of fact Generally, I think WFMU could be used as a source for certain matters of fact (record release dates, some tour info, etc.) and I could see it being fine as a general source for some transcriptions for interviews there is some other way to verify. If they can't be verified it gets a bit more borderline for me.
*Reliability for interpretation and opinion This seems much less reliable to me, overall. Any article that contains a sentence like  should be considered with additional skepticism. A look at the WFMU sources also include blogs we wouldn't consider on their own merits. 
Our version of Imogene Coca's opinion is that she , but the original text (from an interview not controlled by the author) is much milder and vague about the actual words were said, let alone whether she specifically hated working with him,  I think a "changing of the subject" has been jazzed up as evidence of an opinion not stated. Since she was actually in the middle of declining to talk about him, there's no context about why she would think he was "awful" or how strongly she meant it. Without reference, it could be because he didn't answer her phone calls the previous week or something that had nothing to do with their working life together. My point is that it's dangerous to stray too far into speculation in the interest of having a more interesting story, which I believe the WMFU article does at times.Finally there's a BLP and Due Weight issue with the "Wives" quote. The due weight is that a bunch of women are being called "hookers" solely from a single quote, from a single colleague, who seems more vague about it all in the WMFU article then how we've included it. The BLP issue is that the eight (or eleven according to the WMFU article, so who knows) women that are being called "hookers" should be presumed to be alive if we haven't heard otherwise, including but not limited to his last wife, Arlene. __ E L A Q U E A T E 20:41, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll add that I'm not against negative material being added, but we should take extra care that we're not relying on the over-interpretation of primary sources in their most negative or entertaining light. __ E L A Q U E A T E 21:01, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent points on BLP possibly still applying to his widow/ex-wives. I disagree about your take on Coco, but I'll go with what you recommend. I've rewritten the section slightly to add in a larger perspective without referencing any of the specifics which might cause BLP issues. I think the section is now NPOV and gives enough personal info to suit me. Thoughts?--SouthernNights (talk) 00:11, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  It looks good. The WMFU article seems to be be supported by primary source interviews (mostly done by the author for the other website he's associated with) and the book .  A lot of these quotes are retired burlesque comedians telling anecdotes about each other which our source doesn't even completely believe. The direct quotes from interviews probably shouldn't be used to generalize, or phrased in a way that we think the speaker must have been telling the truth. I did have a thought that it breaks credulity that any human being who had more than half a dozen wives would confirm to anybody that every single one of them, first to last, was an ex-prostitute. It seems more possible that it would be secretly half-true than that someone would tell anyone about it, unless they happened to also be some sort of comedian. Anyway, WFMU can be used to reliably (mostly) relate what people said, but I'd call it shaky the truth of what they said. It would be good to get a look at the Syracuse University book to compare what was sober boring fact and what was friendly elaboration about a notorious entertainment figure. And, if you take a look at the first four minutes of this, you'll be treated to an early television appearance of a type of Wikipedia editor I'm sure you have encountered. __ E L A Q U E A T E 00:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL at the video.--SouthernNights (talk) 00:58, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your excellent input here, .— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 01:02, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

text: You are both very kind but do not thank me prematurely. I have some hard things to say about this multiple wives business that was re-inserted. The WMFU article cites this interview to back up their claim about "number of wives, all hookers". Please look at the part of the interview where that comes up. Nesteroff introduces the numbers in the question and it's nested right there with the funny anecdote Nesterhoff says is almost certainly a falsehood: 
We can't put jokey speculation in as a sourced biographical claim. I was taking WMFU and the author as a reliable source in the sense that if they say somebody said something in an interview with them then it is probably true that they said the words. Looking at the transcripts puts that into doubt. Even with that WMFU is making no claim that the people interviewed are relating verifiable fact. We shouldn't make that jump either. Right now we have exactly one person, a burlesque comedian, as our only source of information about a possible(?) eight or more wives, having met and known exactly one. The single comedian is not a reliable source for this claim to be presented as a known quantity in Wikipedia's voice. It would be a great story if it were true but we have no confirmation that it wasn't a simple exaggeration, or a joke made in the interview. More than eight wives is an extraordinary claim, and it requires a better source than I see here. The worst part is that the quote in the article is so significantly different from what was said on the transcript. __ E L A Q U E A T E 05:17, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Joefromrandb made a good change to the article on the married issue and it seems to resolve this issue. I'm also good with the current version if everyone else is.--SouthernNights (talk) 12:44, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, the wording is better. I was worried that we were straying into Yogi Berra territory, where someone becomes so notorious for exaggerated incidents that it's easier to believe other exaggerations. But it looks good now, thank you. __ E L A Q U E A T E 12:55, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: WFMU as a source, specifically.

message: This "He was stricken while performing in the clubhouse of his apartment building in" is lifted straight from the obit it's sourced to.  I can't figure out how to rephrase the sentences to avoid this since the obit is so short. The information is relevant since he was working when he died.  Thoughts?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:40, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phrase lifted straight from obit 

message: " Jay Leno writes on delivered the eulogy." Makes no sense to me.76.31.182.125 (talk) 14:54, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone translate this phrase from the obit section, please? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Can someone provide information or a link that might explain what is meant by - the Schuster circuit out of Chicago - ?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MisterHOP (talk • contribs) 05:29, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Career