Talk:Shamanistic remnants in Hungarian folklore

message: Can someone add to this article information about the dual-soul concept as embodied by the Hungarian words lélek and iz?  Előre köszönöm! --Stacey Doljack Borsody 23:01, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the info.  I was wondering what the modern usage of these terms for soul are since they still appear in the language while Hungarians converted to Christianity about a 1000 years ago and would have adopted a different belief system regarding the soul.  The sources I have only talk about the existence of the words, not their usage.  I'll try to add some more info to this new section later (specifically the cognates in other Uralic languages with the word iz and the meaning of shadow soul).  I actually don't know all that much about Tuvan concepts on the soul because most of my study has focused on their language and throatsinging.  Hoppal wrote a book with Kenin Lopsang Mongush, a Tuvan scholar and shaman, that I am thinking about picking up...  I wish more of Hoppal and Dioszegi's works were in English :)  --Stacey Doljack Borsody 16:44, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks, Physis.  Found Folk Beliefs and Shamanistic Traditions in Siberia plus these titles at Stanford library...
 ISBN:  9630580853
 ISBN: 	9789630580854
 Title: Rediscovery of shamanic heritage / edited by Mihály Hoppál and Gábor Kósa.
 Imprint: Budapest : Akadémiai Kiadó, c2003.
 Physical Description: 	x, 360 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
 Series: (Bibliotheca shamanistica, ISSN:1218-988X ; v. 11)
 Note: 	"This volume is based on a conference that took place at Hungarian Culture Foundation,
 Budapest in April 2000"--P. [4] of cover.
 ISBN:  9630574489
 ISBN: 	9789630574488
 Author: Diószegi, Vilmos.
 Title: Shamanism : selected writings of Vilmos Diószegi / edited by Mihály Hoppál.
 Imprint: Budapest : Akadémiai Kiadó, 1998.
--Stacey Doljack Borsody 17:38, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dual-soul 

message: Dear Stacey Doljack Borsody,
Thank You for the bibliography. I hope I shall able to read them. In genarally, while reading, I am more and more despaired about my ignorance. (Six year ago,  I did not even notice that.)
You mentioned Your studies throatsinging. I read the corresponding article, and its linked articles. They mentioned many other cultures (Sami, Inuit) and functions (shamanistic practices). I tried to summarize the sporadic topics in a single, new article: Imitation of natural sounds in various cultures. I hope it has not become annoying, I suppose You know much more about this topic.
Best wishes,
Physis 23:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shamanism, throatsinging, other related topics in musics of various cultures 

message: I illustrate with the following image that merging into Hungarian mythology can raise linking problems. If the new merging proposal was raised because of the lengthy, essay-like title of the article, then I propose Shamanism among Hungarians as new title. It corresponds well with Hoppál's article "Sámánság a nyenyecek között" (= Shamanhood among the Nenets),Hoppál 2006 and also with existing Wikipedia article Shamanism among Eskimo peoples. "Hungarian shamanism" would be an even shorter title, but I am not sure that shamanistic beliefs and practices were so homogenious to justify speaking about "the" Hungarian shamanism. Instead, I suppose rather that there were rather diverse beliefs and practices.
Physis 12:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaming instead of merging 

message: Maybe Shamanhood among Hungarians would be an even better title. It occures also in the scientific literature, even in titles  (two book titles: Shamanhood and Shamanhood, Symbolism, and Epic, both by Juha Pentikäinen), and even in a conference name (Shamanhood: The Endangered Language of Ritual), out of three reasons:
;Historical
:Term “shamanhood” corresponds better with the terms for shamanism in the old (early XXth century) sources: Russian “шаманство”, German “Schamanentum”.Hoppál 2005: 15
;Diversity
:the above term, both in the old sources and in the revitalized usafe, stresses more the diversity of the local variants.
;Otherness
:Both Hoppál and Juha Pentikäinen stresses that shamanism is not a religion in the modern sense.  For example because it is linked closer to everyday life, etc.  Hoppál uses the same term sometimes also for the Hungarian variants.Hoppál 1998
A summary article about the term can be read in .
Physis 13:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shamanhood