Talk:Palestinians/Archive 4

message: "The Palestinian population is largely Sunni Muslim, with Christian, Druze, Jewish, and Samaritan minorities."  Who comprises the Jewish minority of the Palestinian population? Jayjg (talk) 06:39, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Palestinian#Religions: "there are also about 300 Samaritans and a few thousand Jews from the Neturei Karta group who consider themselves Palestinian." - Mustafaa 22:59, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  For which see their site: "We seek to live in the land of Palestine as anti Zionist Jews. To reside as loyal and peaceful Palestinian citizens..." - Mustafaa 23:04, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

text: I see, that is their goal?  And yet they are currently not living there, nor do they call themselves Palestinians, nor are they Palestinian citizens. Jayjg (talk) 03:17, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that statement refers to the original term "Palestinian" which encompassed anybody living on the land. Also, a top official of Neturei Karta, Rabbi Moshe Hirsch, was "Minister for Jewish Affairs" in the first PA government in 1996. If we want to get into specifics, we have at least one couple who are close friends of my family where the husband is Palestinian and the wife is Jewish, born abroad and now "naturalized" inasmuch as that makes sense in a non-sovereign country. Both have Palestinian IDs and are residents. And I know of a few other similar cases as well. So both historically and currently, to claim that there are no Palestinians who are Jewish is untrue. Ramallite (talk) 04:20, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

text: The original statements was a theoretical political position, not an actual reflection of reality.  And regarding the tiny number of Jews who have Palestinian IDs, I suspect that there are probably several Buddhists who are Palestinians as well; should they be mentioned?  The "Jewish minority", such as they are, are an insignificant number, and they are only listed here for political purposes. Jayjg (talk) 04:43, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem here is that the meaning of the term "Palestinian" has changed over the years. I have read books from the 1940s that speak of Palestinians taking it for granted that the term refers to Jews living in the Yishuv. I would propose that we can have a subcategory under :Category:Palestinian people called :Category:Palestinian Jews or something along those lines. I am trying to figure out the political implications of such a categorization - on the one hand, it makes the point that there are lots of Jews native to the area prior to the establishment of Israel; on the other, it is consistent with the PLO charter that the Palestinian nationality has nothing to do with language (though it is supposed to be part of the pan-Arabic nation). --Leifern 22:11, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

text: It does? What exactly is that history?  An Israeli member of Neturei Karta acting as a propaganda-tool/"Minister of Jewish Affairs"?  Please specify what you mean. Jayjg (talk) 05:09, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Neta Golan, a thirty-year-old Israeli peace activist and Buddhist, lives with her Palestinian husband in Ramallah See: http://www.ralphmag.org/BK/neta-golan.html --PinchasC 05:10, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

text: Living in Palestine? Possibly. Depends on what you define as Palestine.  They live in Israel.  1949 Armistice Lines Israel.  I still haven't noticed them calling themselves "Palestinian".  Have you? Jayjg (talk) 05:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree with Mustafaa, if the inclusion is controversial it should just be put lower down and its controvertiality noted.Heraclius 17:10, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

text: It might be relevant to put a description of them in the Religions section, provided it actually dealt in a factual way with their only theoretical/purely political existence. Jayjg (talk) 18:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  A brief description is already there (have you read this article yet?), and a minister in the PNA is rather more than a "theoretical" entity. - Mustafaa 18:52, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

text: I see the description.  "Minister of Photo Opportunities" is a real entity, but only in the realm of political theatre. Jayjg (talk) 19:32, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish minorities? 

message: Sources for Zuhayr Muhsin (used to be Zuhair Mohsen) which are probably too specialised to attach to the article:
* http://www.al-bab.com/arab/countries/palestine/biogCM.htm  (Syria's appointee to PLO-EC)
* Anders Strindberg, The Damascus-Based Alliance of Palestinian Forces: A Primer, Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. 29, No. 3. (Spring, 2000), pp. 60-76. (Sa'iqa fully funded by Syria)
While I'm typing, I'll dispose of another common quote that does not belong in the article.  Ahmed Shukairy, who would later become the first leader of the PLO, told the UN Security Council in 1956 that "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria".  The reason that this was not a Palestinian expression of pan-Syrianism is that Shukairy at the time was the Syrian representative on the UNSC (Official Records, 724th Meeting, page 10).  He had to present the Syrian position regardless of his own opinions.  His statement was supposed to counter the Israeli claim to sovereignty over the DMZ between Israel and Syria.
--Zero 13:40, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: I don't know why my changes were removed. they all fixed contradictions in the article itself.  Not all Palestinians come from "Palestine".  many come from other places, like Syria and Lebanon, and if youre going to claim that Neturei kara are palestinians, then you can't claim they came from "Palestine". The article also says that whether Arab Israelis are Palestinian or not is debated, then in the next sentence says that theyre palestinian.  that's a contradiction. next you claim that a unique accent is a feature of Palestinians, then say only rural palestinians have it. that's another contradiction. so I fixed it to say that rural palestinians have it. next you claim "many" Palestinans thought Palestine was their country, but the whole paragraph above says mostly the opposite, and you provide no proof it was many. John McW 00:18, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  My changes