Talk:Juozas Lukša

message: Is this the same guy from Lietukis Garage pogrom in 1941? I suspect the article is not quite honest as it skips the awful murders made by Luksa on the innocent people in summer 1941. That fact should be presented in this article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.205.14.3 (talk) 12:43, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled 

message: :http://defendinghistory.com/tag/juozas-luksa  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xx234 (talk • contribs) 12:06, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critics 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Yet again some vandals pushing "alleged" facts about Juozas Lukša. I suggest to discuss all "alleged" facts here. -- Ke an (talk) 12:21, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:   Please make difference between "discussion", "alleged" and facts.
* 1. https://www.jta.org/2020/06/29/global/in-lithuania-lawmakers-want-to-dedicate-2021-to-honoring-alleged-perpetrator-of-a-holocaust-pogrom The source clearly claims "alleged" and doesn't present the facts. 
* 2. "The Truth and Nothing But the Truth: Jewish Resistance in Lithuania"
"discusses". I can discuss that Adolf H. still lives in Argentina and making vine in the same manner. Will it be sufficient for Wikipedia?
Can you quote the book?
* 3. Dovid Katz is an extremely unreliable author. He is well known for distributing lies and phantasies almost about every historical fact in Lithuania.
Maybe he hates everything related to Lithuania, but that doesn't make him a source of eternal truth. Can you read his text and find some proofs on participation of Juozas Lukša in Kaunas' pogrom? There are only speculations about the same - "maybe", "that if", "alleged".
* 4. These "allegations" usually are being based on one photo in the Lietūkis garage: http://www.xxiamzius.lt/archyvas/xxiamzius/20021206/nuotrau/mums_02.jpg
This blonde man claimed by KGB, Russian propaganda and some Jewish organisations as Juozas Lukša. Not sure why.
Because there is no even little similarity and Juozas Lukšas wasn't blonde.
Even more so - the biography of Juozas Lukša is very well researched and is known that during the days of Lietūkis pogrom he wasn't in Kaunas even. 
https://kauno.diena.lt/naujienos/lietuva/salies-pulsas/siaubo-pasaka-apie-lietuviu-partizana-502823
https://m.diena.lt/naujienos/lietuva/salies-pulsas/partizanu-vadas-tebemurkdomas-smeizte-959555
--Ke an (talk) 16:09, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:   Would you consider some conspiracy theories a "controversy"? Regarding the "controversy" - as I mentioned earlier it is based on Melamed's belief that it is Juozas Lukša in the photo. No reliable sources confirmed it. Even face analysis experts. Lithuanian historian Arvydas Anušauskas made a thorough research of Lietūkis events and proved that Juozas Lukša participation in them physically was not possible.
"After Juozas Lukša was release from the Soviet jail he headed home" - the source in Lithuanian, but Google translation would do some reasonable job.
https://m.diena.lt/naujienos/lietuva/salies-pulsas/siaubo-pasaka-apie-lietuviu-partizana-zydu-zudika-450704 
As regarding Dovid Katz, I do not believe in appeal to authority. Do you see arguments and facts in his text on Juozas Lukša? I see only speculations based on speculations.
--Ke an (talk) 17:21, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

text:   I agree.  I am perplexed as to what should be my next step. The apparent 'guardian' of the article Ke_An takes the position that any reference to the role of Juozas Luksa is a lie and conspiracy by malevolent secret forces, and has accused me of being such.  VarlamTikhonovich (talk) 12:44, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

text:    As another example of a document that I believe merits a reference:  http://www.davidpublisher.com/Public/uploads/Contribute/57970fdb9ffef.pdf  
Journal of US-China Public Administration; March 2016, Vol. 13, No. 3, 203-220 "The Tragedy of Holocaust and Possibilities for Reconciliation in the Society of Lithuania" Robertas Pukenis Vytautas Magnus University, Kaunas, Lithuania;doi: 10.17265/1548-6591/2016.03.008
that references on page 211 the fact that the Israeli government has documents that reference Juozas Luksa as being involved in the Holocaust, while the Lithuanian government denies such involvement.
The topic of any ethnic Lithuanian anti-Soviet partisans (especially prominent partisan leaders such as Luksa) also being involved in pro-Nazi activities during World War II is very political in Lithuania, with Lithuanians nationalists strenuously denying any such pro-Nazi involvement. 
As a sign that there is indeed a controversy, the Ambassador of Lithuania Lina Antanaviciene  to Israel wrote a letter in the last few days to the Israeli press defending Juozas Luksa.
See: https://www.haaretz.com/1.5173211  
VarlamTikhonovich (talk) 14:18, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

text:    Thank you.
I propose to put the following text in:
Controversy exists regarding the role of Juozas Lukša during the Nazi occupation of Lithuania.
Some sources state that he was involved in Holocaust atrocities against Jews, such as this account.
“In his lecture, ilya Ehrenburg spoke of Nazism, of its cruel role in the Second World War, and called on all present to assist the Red Army to defeat Hitler.
He asked that questions should be as short as possible. One young student asked for an explanation of the difference between the Stalinist and Hitlerite occupation of Lithuania.  At this moment Jonas Barshketis recognized this student.  He had seen him in the Lietukis garage on June 25, 1941, where he had participated in the kilings of Jews, having been freed a mere two days prior to this from the Yellow Prison” as an LAF activist. Jonas told this to the Russian officer from SMERSH whom he knew. Later it transpired that this was Juozas Luksha, now well known in Lithuania as a ‘’freedom fighter.’’ The Truth and Nothing But the Truth: Jewish Resistance in Lithuania. Aleks Faitelson. Gefen Publishing House Ltd, 2006 p.33-34
A similar account is provided:
“The decisive moment of the “show” approached. All the victims had to take off their shows and were led barefooted to a light-haired, blue-eyed man standing nearby (Juozas Lukas).  He held a big iron crow-bar in his hands. One by one, the victins had to approach the man who, smiling brought his iron bar down on the victim’s head who fell bleeding”
“After the massacre, the young man put aside the crow-bar, took up an accordeon, stood on the bodies of the murdered people, and from his vantage point on a pile of corpses began to play the Lithuanian national anthem joined by the cheerful crowd.  Lithuania: Crime and Punishment, Joseph Melamed, ed. Tel Aviv January 1999
However, other sources within Lithuania strongly dispute all such assertions, as has the Lithuanian government.
---
VarlamTikhonovich (talk) 17:14, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Alleged" facts bout Juozas Lukša 

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