Talk:The Amazing Race/Archive 2

message: I've created an Amazing Race userbox, so that users can place it on their userpage.  Enjoy! --Madchester 23:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome! Thanks Madchester! mouselmm 17:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Amazing Race userbox

message: ::I reverted your edit removing all of the fansites.  One fansite is ok to have (see the guidelines at WP:EL).  Also, see the archived talk page about why some of the fansites are relevant. PS2pcGAMER (talk) 12:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could someone resize the pics to 200px, the pics are big and some pics are also unnecessary it just make the article very long and could someone delete those official websites of the past seasons and just put CBS.com/Amazing_Race--Hotwiki 13:04, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Do discussion 

message: Here's how I feel about the screenshots we currently have.
*Kris/Jon ("Teams" section) - Good image; shows a typical dating-couple team, who are also fan favorites.  I say we keep it.
*Colin/Christie ("Money") - Another good image; shows the typical scene of teams departing.  However, it doesn't really focus on money; it looks more like they're reading the clue.  I say keep for now, but perhaps try to get one more appropriate for the section (such as a team begging for money; and the money should be plainly visible in the picture).
*Gary/Dave ("Fast Forward") - Not really necessary; just shows the run-of-the-mill scene of teams reading a clue.  The only thing special about it is that it shows the color-coded caption for the Fast Forward directions.  I'd say either get a screenshot showing the captions for all the other clues (Yellow for Detour, Red for Roadblock, Blue for Route Info), or don't include this one at all.  Since the former would lead to too many images, I'd go with the latter and Delete it.
*Phil ("Pit Stops") - A good shot of him; since he's the main man, I'd say this one is necessary.  Keep.
*Teams in Sweden ("Rules") - Not a very good image; when I see it, I notice the red dot rather than the teams.  Also; it doesn't really pertain directly to the rules of the race, so I say Delete.
*Teri/Ian ("Penalties") - Not really pertinent to the section, since it doesn't involve a penalty, credit, or even a replacement vehicle.  Since less is more when it comes to images, I say Delete.
*Teams on Camel Carts ("Trivia") - Not a very good image; looks more like a pile of junk than a "camel cart".  Also, it doesn't really pertain to the section.  Delete.
*Jonathan/Victoria ("Criticisms") - A good image that brings out Jonathan's overbearing nature.  Since this is mentioned in the section, I say Keep.
*Paolo Family ("Criticisms") - Not really pertinent to the section; just because it's from Season 8 doesn't mean it's about the criticisms of season 8.  Since I said keep for the other image in this section, I say Delete for this one.
Also, I tested what the pics would look like at 200px, and they looked okay.  If it would help cut down the article size, I say we do it.  What do you think? --CrazyLegsKC 05:55, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally don't have a problem with any of your suggestions. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 06:41, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't mind cutting down on the photos, but it'd be best if we have some variety across all the seasons. I can get images of teams at  a Detour, Roadblock, Yield, etc. and upload those shots, and remove the less important ones in the trivia sections. --Madchester 15:36, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Screenshots 

message: Just a thought, I know it's not a priority right now, but has there ever been a consideration for a whole trivia page like the Survivor Trivia? - HansTAR 02:39, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just thinking of doing that, actually.  It would be a great place to put all the little bits of info that seem interesting, but are to miniscule to include in the main article.  I say we go for it. --CrazyLegsKC 09:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, like the "indiscriminate information" that's been "disappearing" from all the pages lol -- HansTAR 01:28, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay then, I'll start it here: The Amazing Race trivia --CrazyLegsKC 01:50, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where can we link to the trivia page? In the "Seasons" box? Or perhaps in the Trivia section say "for more trivia, see..." --HansTAR 00:07, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also noticed that the page hasn't been wiki-linked yet!  Kinda defeats its purpose, non?  HansTAR is on the right track with where the link should be... --Madchester 00:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi all.  I overheard your conversation and linked to your triva page (as a subscript just below the 'Trivia' heading).  This is the same formatting they used on the Survivor page.  Monkeyman 01:27, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia 

message: I removed the gallery from the article:
[gallery removed]
feel free to reinsert the images in the main body of the article if they compliment the text on the side. However, there is a hidden ceiling on the number of screenshots that we can claim under fairuse. Its fine if they are used for critical commentary (i.e. in the main body in such a way as they add to the text) but I think that a gallery is pushing it. Plus, galleries are coming under fire all over wikipedia. savidan(talk) (e@) 21:38, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Per Wikipedia:Fair use criteria, fair use images are not allowed on talk pages. As such, I removed the gallery and have deleted the images as they have been unused in any article for more than 7 days. howcheng  {chat} 22:18, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gallery 

message: Aren't there also cases where apparent violations of the rules have been 'corrected' without resorting to penalties? For example, Lake and Michelle (TAR9) called ahead for tickets, which violated the rules. While they were, in fact, forced to cancel the reservation, they were not given an additional penalty on check-in. I'm not sure if this is standard for TAR, or a one-time event. Stismail 17:24, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would think that, as they self-corrected the error and gained no advantage (in fact, they had to take a later flight because the pulled over to use the phone), no other penalty would be levied. As for other examples, there's nothing I can recall... Radagast 01:44, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there is Tara/Wil and Blake/Paige of TAR2, who correctly re-performed a Roadblock after performing the entire task incorrectly.  Had they not corrected it, they probably would have received a penalty.  Also, Chip/Kim of TAR5 took a taxi partway to the airport when they were instructed to drive themselves; when they realized their mistake, they told their driver to take them back, and then drove themselves the entire way.  --CrazyLegsKC 02:47, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question for Penalties section here 

message: The count listed here is 106. Is that counting 2-hour episodes as two separate episodes?  TV.com lists the episode from March 21, 2006 as the 100th episode.  This means then that the episode count on the season pages are wrong, too. --Ryvius 00:42, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode Count 

message: First, Uchenna and Joyce also survived 2 non-elims, so there's been a precedent.
Also, this is not the first time that racers had a supposed geographical advantage.  It seems like a POV comment for suggesting that the Hippies had an unfair "home court advantage", when past teams never truly capitalized in similar situations.
* Season 1, Guidos had lived in Paris for a year (or so); they actually lost a lot of ground by being lazy on that leg.  Frank and Margarita lived in NYC, and tried to use that to their advantage on the final leg by suggesting a short cut, but it actually costed them time to the finish line.
* Season 2, Tara and Will made regular business trips to Bangkok, Thailand but they never placed first in the Thailand legs.  The finale took place in their hometown of SF, but they still lost in a foot race.
* Season 5, both Colin and Christie and Brandon and Nicole were based in Texas; both teams lost to Californians Chip and Kim during the finale in Dallas.
*Season 6, Lena and Kristy were eliminated in Sweden; they had lived in the country for several years and have Scadivanian roots.
Basiucally, there hasn't been a strong causal relationship between geographical familiarity and success on the Race.
Likewise, no one was complaining when Spanish-speaking teams were casted and were able to speak with locals in South America.  Or how Jon had an "unfair advantage" in the water polo Detour in Season 6, b/c he was a college water polo player. --Madchester 06:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said.  In fact, when Tyler first mentioned during the final episode that he had spent time in Japan, I leaned over to my wife and said "Oh, well, the hippies just lost the race." --Dmleach 20:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Critcisms: BJ and Tyler's supposed favoritism

message: I think we need to be adding a list of references across all of the Race pages. --Madchester 20:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: I decided to be bold and remove the following two images from the article:
 
I had a few reasons for doing this.
* As I mentioned in the "Screenshots" section above a few months ago, they aren't very good images, IMO.  The first just looks like a blob of blue and white with a spot of red--and the red dot is what catches the eye when it's looked at, not the teams (which is what's really important).  The second just looks like a pile of junk, not "teams competing on camel carts."
* They didn't really relate to or contribute to the sections where they were placed.  How does a picture of teams playing shuffleboard at an ice hotel related to the race's "comprehensive set of rules"?  How does a picture of Meredith on a camel cart relate to trivia about the race?
* The sections (and article) look perfectly fine without them, and less is more when it comes to images.
I also moved the pic of Teri/Ian up to the top of the "penalties" section.  I think it looks better that way now that I removed the image in the above section.  What do you think of these changes?
:Seems good TeckWizTalkContribsGuestbook 13:09, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine.  If the images don't pertain to the section anymore, than feel free to remove them. --Madchester 00:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I originally uploaded that photo cuz the Race rarely features FFs anymore.  So I thought that a pictoral explaination would be useful.  Not a big deal if it is removed. --Madchester 19:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two images removed 

message: Also, for similar reasons, the show makes the point of not actually showing the crews to the point where crewmen have occasionally been digitally removed from the picture in post-production.
The cited source for this trivia is a blog-ish post that says "I have to agree with the Eagle-Eyed Forum Poster". This person doesn't appear to have any better source than their own guessing. In addition, the next sentance says "Having said that, I'm now sure it's probably not true." This doesn't sound like an apt source. I'm not saying the trivia is false, but I think it should be listed as  until a more official source with actual knowledge of the show's production. TheHYPO 00:59, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia source? 

message: I'm suggesting creating a WikiProject for The Amazing Race. If you agree with me, go to Wikipedia:WikiProject/List of proposed projects#WikiProject The Amazing Race TeckWiz is 12 yrs oldTalkContribs# of Edits 19:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject The Amazing Race 

message: I say we add this article.  It's entertaining and it ties in very well to season 10. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thedrobber (talk • contribs) 
The Amazing Race: It Pays to be a Jerk: http://www.buddytv.com/articles/the_amazing_race/the_amazing_race_it_pays_to_be.aspx
:Consider putting this on the TAR 10 page TeckWiz is 12 yrs oldTalkContribs# of Edits 00:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article on Amazing Race 10 

message: I assume that each team has a cameraperson with them?  That means that they actually have to have three tickets on each flight?  User:Zoe|(talk) 22:36, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Plane tickets

message: Full disclosure: I work for TVGuide.com.
However, I think Wikipedia's users would benefit from TVGuide.com's information on The Amazing Race. 
The link is:
http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?tvobjectid=282859 
Thanks for your consideration.
Telefan 20:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TVGuide.com's Amazing Race link on the External Links Container 

message: The page mentions no smoking on the race. Is there any reasoning given for this rule other than the fact that it would probably be bad for teams themselves to have to stop for cigs, or spend money on them or whatnot? Would it violate the rules against showing cigarettes on TV or something? TheHYPO 08:02, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably just because it's a family show, and to keep as family-friendly as possible the network doesn't want to portray smoking during the show. --Maelwys 15:27, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ian mentioned in a post-race interview about that rule.  He was ragging about how he was unable to smoke for an entire month or so.  It may have been his Early Show appearance.  Some digging should confirm it. --Madchester 17:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Smoking? 

message: What season did this happen in? I cant remember and i want to put it on the bungee jumping page. Post here or on mi talk.  → p00rleno (lvl 77) ←ROCKSCRS<Font Color= "light blue"> 8:42 am et 15 nov 2006  </Font>
* Off the top of my head: Season 2 (a Detour task, teams did a co-jump in New Zealand, I think), Season 3 (A detour task in Switzerland), Season 4 (A Roadblock in Austria?), Season 8 (FF in Pamana) and Season 9 (a Roadblock in Greece)Masem 14:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bungee Jumping challenge 

message: Should information from TAR Asia be added to this page even though there is already a main page for Asia? 64.192.44.138 03:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Except for a sentence or two about it and a link to it (which is in the template at the bottom) there shouldn't really be Asia suff on the page. You said it yourself, it already has its own page. editor review me!-TeckWizTalkContribs# of Edits 12:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding TAR Asia Info. 

message: Looking at the remaining parts in the Trivia section, and knowing what's on the rest of the page, I wonder if a Production section is something to add.  This would include the notes about AV crews, editing, etc., elements of the TV show that aren't specific to the Race itself but how the Race gets to viewers eventually.  (There's more that I know I can put in than what's listed in the trivia sections).   With that, and removing some of the extraneous facts from the trivia, that would completely remove the Trivia section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Masem (talk • contribs) 19:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Following up, I've put up what I think can go in here.  I know that most of the details can be found through various forum posts that come from past racers and a few spotted production notes, but before going through the work of finding all that, I want to see how this section is received --Masem 19:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it.  Good job! :) --CrazyLegsKC 10:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Production" section? 

message: left|Route markers in the Vietnam leg of Season 3 were solid yellow.
I removed the "Vietnam route marker" image (shown above) because: 1) it's not that hard to imagine a "solid yellow" flag, so there's no real need to illustrate it, and 2) since it was used only briefly in one season.
I also moved the flag images to the right instead of the left; I think they look better there.  However, I can't get them all onto one line, which is the way I think they should be - stacked vertically, they encroach onto the next section, which they shouldn't do.  Can anyone fix it so that the images are arranged horizontally? --CrazyLegsKC 08:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Hope it's OK. Tinlinkin 09:03, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is OK.  Thanks! :) --CrazyLegsKC 10:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Route marker images 

message: If TAR contestants are required to take trains, why aren't all train stations allowed to be presented? Airports are shown, yet contestants are usually not forced to go to a certain airport in a city (although there is usually only one international airport for each city). The destination airport is not a route marker, either (unless I'm reading the definition of route marker wrong). Since some train stations have their own articles, and contestants must take trains that stop at certain stations, I feel train stations should be included if airports are. Tinlinkin 08:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Train stations 

message: The article states that taking another team's car incurs a penalty (at least it did in s.6). Dustin and Kandice switched cars  -- after damaging theirs in an at-fault accident -- in s.10 and didn't incur a penalty. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ (AMA) 00:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that it didn't count there, because if I remember correctly they switched cars between legs (so technically nobody had any claim to any particular cars). If they'd swapped in the middle of a leg (for example, at a detour) then they'd get the penalty. --Maelwys 00:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taking another team's car 

message: according to nielsen  top 20 ratings amazing race 10 have been in number 14 and had 12.74 million  audiences reference http://www.sfgate.com/tvradio/nielsens/  - (anon post)
* That's just for the week of the finale.  We won't know it's overall placement or numbers until May 07. --Masem 16:15, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ratings of ar10

message: Could it be time to start trimming the fat off of the criticisms section? --HansTAR
: I think that if it was agreed, to simply have a short list with one sentence at most about the critiques of the race.  But I also wonder if it's not a bad idea to consider moving the race mechanics (which includes the details on the race, rules, and production) to a separate page (that part takes up nearly 1/3rd of the page) replacing it with a very short blurb about route markers and tasks, and so forth. --Masem 16:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with trimming.  I'd also suggest combining the different points into paragraph form, since there are enough relevant details now. --Madchester 23:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I've cut things down to the key elements (combining where appropriate, and trying to keep relevant references).  I don't think making this list into paragraph form would work as well.  Also note that since it's much smaller, it fits nicely into the section immediately preceding it (on public reception).--Masem 18:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trimming the Criticisms

message: Now that we've trimmed the Criticisms section, I think the Penalties section deserves the same treatment.  I think the section is way too long, probably because of all the specific instances given of the particular penalties.  I say we either eliminate the examples completely, or convert them into footnotes.  What do you think?  --CrazyLegsKC 07:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Made a stab at reducing that, cutting out all but a few examples and removing some of the minor technicalities.  --Masem 01:50, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Penalties section