Talk:Josef Mengele/Archive 1

message: http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/artificial_insemination.html
Maybe Mengele just used artificial insemination with a syringe, using some Nordic material?--Revery (talk) 22:24, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Science fiction or science 

message: There is a new book coming out by Argentine historian Jorge Camarasa, a specialist in the post-war Nazi flight to South America in which he claims the experiments were continued in south america: 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/brazil/4307262/Nazi-angel-of-death-Josef-Mengele-created-twin-town-in-Brazil.html
easytiger (talk) 11:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mengele: the Angel of Death in South America 

message: Sorry for putting this thread up here, but I've just looked through the history of this article, and I would strongly recommend it for semi-protection (so that only signed-in users can contribute). Otherwise you'll keep having thousands of edits by nitwits who love Bruce (which is fair enough), Mengele, or the word "douche". Any suggestions? Trigaranus (talk) 10:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *I request it yesterday, which Rudget tended to: "(sustained vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop] (expires 19:17, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers. Trigaranus (talk) 10:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: He was married to Irene Schoenbein.
oH MY GOD WHAT A LOAD OF BULLSHIT  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.70.27.226 (talk) 19:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Married to 

message: In the first part of the article (Early life, career, and education), the fourth sentence is displaying multi-national with a space between the i and o.  I checked the actual article and there is no tags for this.  Any ideas?
4wj4ek fnbsdiluhfgbMNBUXYH  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.70.27.226 (talk) 19:32, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Display issues? 

message: While Dr. Mengele's degrees were revoked in 1964, he still is (and should be) referred to as Doctor, whether you like what he did or not. The universities of Frankfurt and Munchi had no grounds to revoke his degrees. There is no evidence that his college work was falsified or plagerized. The two universities revoked his degrees because it was the "politically correct" thing to do since he was a war criminal. Murderers can't simply be revoked or denied their degrees they earned simply because later in their life, they committed crimes.
:i don't think it is up to this article to decide if the universities had no grounds to revoke his degrees. maybe they did so because his work was based on an unscientific worldview as much as because of his crimes. the work that earned him the degrees was closely connected to his later criminal research in auschwitz. trueblood 11:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: regarding the line "Murderers can't simply be revoked or denied their degrees they earned simply because later in their life, they committed crimes." Actually, they can and have been. The rules of both universities and indeed many universities around the world state that a degree can be revoked if the holder does something in later life that brings disrepute to the institution. I've removed the "Dr." tag. I'm a student doctor and if I did what he did I'd expect to be stripped. Fr33kMan 19:19, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doctor 

message: In my opinion, this article does not put enough emphasis on Josef Mengele's intelligence, good-looks, and academic aptitude as a young man.  It also does not contain the well-known fact that he was not loved, and borderline abused by his parents which may have explained, (but don't get me wrong, will never EXCUSE what he did at Auschwitz later in life).  His status as a war hero in WW2 also deserves more explanation and credit.  These facts are rarely, if ever spoken about by the mainstream media, and are encyclopedic as long as they can be substantiated in fact.  If necessary I will cite my sources when editing this article, including the COURT TV website which has perhaps the most thorough and detailed biography of Dr. Mengele that I have ever seen posted online.  The bottom line is what made Dr. Mengele so intriguing and different was that he was anything but the one-sided monster that his later atrocities garnered him infamy for (and deservedly so).  The bottom line is, if a handsome, athletic, intelligent young man today gained a PhD at 24, plus an M.D. at 27, then forsakes a lucrative medical or academic career to join the military as a commissioned officer who volunteers for combat, plus peformes heroic acts of bravery (pulling 2 men out of a burning tank, deep behind Soviet lines, under enemy fire), and survives, only to be awarded some of the most prestigious military awards of the era, comparable to the U.S. Purple Heart, Silver Star, and Distinguished Service Cross, he would be plastered over the media and worshipped as a war hero in modern society.  This was a complex man who deserves a complex biography, detailing both his acts of good and evil.  I am including these positive aspects of Mengele's life in order to give a full perspective on the man, and NOT in any means to excuse his crimes.  Hate is easy to marginalize when its perpetrated by a bunch of drunk, undeducated skinheads talking in a bar about why the world is terrible because of certain races.  Its tougher and more thought provoking when educated heroes sink to the levels that they do in order to achieve those ends.  There is more to this man's story than is currently in the article.  When I post the positive FACTUAL data about Mengele's life, please stop editing it out.  This article should reflect both Mengele's good and evil sides, and the reader should be able to make up their own minds about him and why he did what he did.  Stereotypes are easy to throw around, but the deeper truth is harder to palate.  This article should be about EVIL, but lets be fair and balanced about it. 
In my opinion this article is not about "GOOD and EVIL" , but about relevant information about a major war criminal of wwII. this article needs a good clean up. the evaluation of mengele from the auschwitz authorities is horrible and as useless as some nazi propaganda in a article about wwII. 
how about a quote from some survivor who experienced him on the job at the ramp doing selection.
the article could do a better job explaining what the selection mean and what implications it had for the victims 
also frankly i don't quite get your point about heroic acts of bravery, he saved two people in the war you say, so what. that's rather thin on the plus side for somebody who is responsible for the death of thousands. and don't forget in which  war he won his medals in. i fail to see much of mengeles good sides that the article should reflect trueblood 20:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revisionist History/Concealing Truth 

message: :Mengele in a car and went to the car and was so was born in Günzburg, Germany,...
This obviously needs to be fixed. I would, but I'm not even sure what it's supposed to be saying - was he born in a car on it's way towards Gunzburg? Can anybody clean this up? Cat Parade 19:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early life wording 

message: Is it a hard or soft 'g' sound? -Mr. Tachyon
:My teacher pronounces his name "men-GEL-ee" Link9er 15:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronouncing Mengele's name 

message: To me it does not look sensible to mention a band which refers to Mengele in a song. This page is about the person Mengele not about where he was mentioned, I think. What is your opinion on this?   Besserwissi 17:14, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  mention slayer? 

message: The article contains the following claim: "...Mengele has a daughter born to an Australian woman of German lineage after a liaison between the two when the woman, aged 23, visited the German Colony Colonia Independencia in Paraguay in mid-1960 along with her mother and brother..." What is the specific source for this claim? Is it a reliable source? Has it been verified? Is this reliable information? It is really necessary to supply a reference on this point. I have never read any such claim about Mengele in any other biography. Unsubstantiated internet gossip (of which there is plenty in this regard)can't be represented as fact.
There a numerous Forum posts statting this as fact and making reference to this very article in wikipedia as evidence of it being true!?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.3.154 (talk) 21:40, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding Mengele's alleged daughter 

message: Can Mengele be accurately categorized as a "Nazi leader"? He wasn't exactly part of the core leadership of the Nazi state.
-Kingsbury 20:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mengele - A"Nazi Leader"? 

message: I don't think this is phrased correctly. It sounds a bit like he personally chose, one by one, 400,000 individuals in 21 months. Surely he must have chosen certain critera, or selected blocks of individuals, for otherwise choosing people to die 12 hours a day for 21 months of about 30 days (i.e. 400 000 / (21 * 30 * 12) = 53) he would have been choosing one person a minute 7 days a week for nearly two years. I don't have particular historical knowledge of this evil man. Could someone correct this? i.e., explain the selection process very briefly, or change it to "supervised" or "was ultimately responsible for ...".   Sorry to be picky about such an issue, but any engineer reading that statement immediately reaches for his trusty HP calculator to see if it is reasonable.
What does the word "selected" mean in this context?
When the trains would come into Auschwitz, the people were lined up and separated, the fit were sent to slave labor, and the people who were unfit for labor were sent to be killed,that process was called the selection. Mengele was responsible for the selection at Auschwitz, and with the point of his finger sent over 400,000 Jews to their deaths.
Not only jews! That phrase don´t do justice to the "forgotten victims" like homosexuals, sinti and roma, gypsys and so on.
I thought Irma Grese was hung for selecting victims. If Mengele selected people according to health and war industry skills he would still be in Poland trying to sort out the first day's worth of arrivals - some story just don't cut it.159.105.80.141 14:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personally selected over 400000 ... 

message: i think the introduction needs a rewrite.
it should mention ss membership, his exact position in auschwitz, a sentence or two about the selection , his experiments and the ideology they were based on. his escape two south america and accidental death, name angel of death.
the whole sentence : " This demented effort caused him to work virtually twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, while he pursued his extensive experimentations and carried out his heavily burdensome duties as medical doctor"
is just plain weird. 
i find the attributed quote not helpful and neither the reference to hitler's 'big lie'. more important is his racist ideology that he based his pseudo scientific research on. 
ah and his nickname was beppo, very charming that.
trueblood 22:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

message: the second section is lenghty and contains unnecessary information (his disease)
maybe his university career could be put in the third section under another headline that discribes his involvement with the nazi movement (memebership of stahlhelm,nsdap, ss) as well as his ideological development. the link between what it meant to study anthropology in nazi germany and with that tutor and his later twin research should be made clear.
military service should be mentioned but the whole paragraph about his war bravery is somewhat misleading.
trueblood 22:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  second and third section 

message: I took off some confused sounding sentences (and what seemed to me another try to twist some information to make it sound somewhat positive). According to wikipedia article Mengele did not found the Lilliput troupe, that's  what they called themselves. trueblood 14:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ovitz family 

message: i deleted:
-the bit about his daughter he never met : because it is just not relevant enough, all this schmu about his deep emotional pain through this loss. please let's be a little bit more tactful. it almost sounds like someone is trying to make fun of his victims.
- nazi leader category because he was not a nazi leader
-a quote and link from a ridiculous pro life site about mengele performing abortions after the war. 
trueblood 09:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  changes in after war section 

message: i just looked at the german and the french article and like the some much better for being shorter.
i'll try to prune some surplus bits.trueblood 20:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  further pruning 

message: took of again this medal thing. the reference to court tv is not satisfactory. the whole article at the crime library is more about story telling then anything else. it contains several errors. to reinstall it it needs a better reference. trueblood 20:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  more pruning 

message: tried some more shortening of the auschwitz paragraph. i think an article does not necessarily benefit from length. we want all the relevant information. do we need to know that he spent six months in some gebirgsjaeger regiment or the name of the guy that found his body?
trueblood 21:00, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an encyclopædia; it is intended to be information-rich!—StationaryTraveller 22:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  ah but who decides what is most relevant? Mapetite526 21:07, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  please do not just revert pruning 

message: We could add mention of the Star Trek: Voyager episode Nothing Human, which featured a holographic simulation of the Cardassian Dr. Moset—an obvious parody of Josef Mengele.—StationaryTraveller 22:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  In fiction 

message: Significant changes should be discussed back here, before being made.  Also, try to make the Talk headings meaningful.  "My changes" and such, don't tell us much, when we're looking to see if something has been (or is being) discussed.—StationaryTraveller 23:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please avoid renegade editing 

message: i don't agree with the recent change, a racist he was, no need to cloud his intentions in pc language.
trueblood 11:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  noma in auschwitz section 

message: the recent edit was just withwash, so i reverted it, i think it is important to state that mengele performed the selections in auschwitz.
and why not call what he did crimes.
trueblood 18:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: pls read Wikipedia:Neutral point of view --Haham hanuka 21:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  no withwash 

message: I move that the title of Dr. be removed from this creatures name cheifly because the Universities of Munich and Frankfurt revoked his degrees in 1964. But also because Mengeles experiments were of no scientific value. SolitaryWolf 14:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: where does it say dr?trueblood 15:23, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Most of them have already been removed presumably by another wikipedian editor. However, one reference remains under the subtitle Auschwitz. SolitaryWolf 01:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Dr." 

message: "But also because Mengeles experiments were of no scientific value."
Even though his monstrous experiments are imoral and unethical, you can not say there is no scientific value in his experiments. At the time the experiments were done, there was little knowledge on the fields Mengele studied. This is confirmed by the fact that several international agencies were very interested in the documents that were made of the experiments after the war.
In all, I think this article is too subjectively written. Which is not good for a encyclopedic piece. Try to keep to the facts. If his dr. title was taken away, don't argue about putting it in front of his name, just explain the situation in the article.
: hm, what fields that mengele was studying are you refering to? his 'research' was based on a flawed racist worldview not just from a ethical point of view. today the category 'race' does not have any validity in modern science. as for the dr, if his doctor titles were really revoked in the sixties i don't see your problem there either. your fact (several international agencies)  to me very much sounds like a urban legend, wanna quote some references for that?[User:Trueblood|trueblood]] 18:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  1. "don't argue about putting it in front of his name" - I never was, quite the opposite 2. "Several international agencies" - what are you talking about? I never made that claim. Everything I have written was based on what I had read in the actual article prior to my posting. Nothing is based on a personal worldview or primary research, I will withdraw my comment on the "dubiousness" of his experiments if you like despite the actual claims of the article, but I will not withdraw what I have said about the title of doctor. Chiefly, because in accordance to this article his degrees were revoked in the 60s - For this reason I see no reason why he should be given the title of "Dr" throughout the article - it is 2006. If anything I'm disputing the articles architecture, not its factual integrity. Finally, I'll point out that I never made any alterations to the actual article, I merely put forth a point for discussion - SolitaryWolf 05:00, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Trying to claim this is "subjective" is ludicrous. Read Baumslag and Weindling for your answer. For example, Mengele injected dye into children's eyes to see if he could change their eye color. By no stretch of the imagination would that be an experiment of any scientific value. Mengele also removed organs and limbs just to see what would happen to the victims. Again, not a valid scientific experiment. Mengele would also shock people with increasingly higher voltages just to see what would happen, another invalid scientific experiment.207.69.137.34 23:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Horrible experiments but even so it did contribute to the knowledge of the body and heritage. Science does not work like this have value this have no value. Science or rather knowledge did increase if even so that this is no good to do to a person or this is how much a person can take of this before it dies. Knowledge is only knowledge, knowledge doesn't have value in itself but only when it then is applied it gains valuable information to the application. Lord Metroid 18:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not objective article 

message: i deleted the whole postwar additions, whoever wants to publish a trash novel on mengele's postwar life should do it somewhere else.trueblood 18:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  deleted major additions 

message: Why is there an external link to Josef Mengele's grandson's Youtube page? It dosen't seem to have any value to the article. -Kerplunk- 22:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have an opinion on this, but I just wanted to say I think his grandson is funny as hell. But he never speaks about his grandfather. Neither does any living Mengele family member. --Arislan 10:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, now that I think about it, I think the deletion of a link relevant to the subject of an article should be discussed.--Arislan 21:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grandson link? 

message: In the above discussion "mention slayer", the user 'Besserwissi' stated:
*"To me it does not look sensible to mention a band which refers to Mengele in a song. This page is about the person Mengele not about where he was mentioned, I think. What is your opinion on this? Besserwissi 17:14, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: baby, slayer and elie wiesel are just not in the same category. night is the account of someone who survived auschwitz, it is world literature. slayer on the other hand, if you wandered what slayer's cultural relevance outside metal fan circles, um i'd say none.
trueblood 21:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: The example I added here, regarding Mengele being mentioned in the movie "Anatomy", has been removed for the second time.  If something like that isn't considered notable enough to be mentioned here, that is fine, but I don't see how that is any less relevant than most of the other items on this list which give mentions of Mengele in fiction, especially examples that claim that a certain character might be "based off of" Mengele (such as the references to "Marathon Man" and "Time's Arrow").  If my example isn't included, that's okay with me, but then I think that other, less relevant, examples should also be considered for removal.  Has anyone created any guidelines for what should and shouldn't be included in sections such as this?  If not, then I think that they should be discussed, since "Trivia" and "In fiction" sections can be a large gray area.--Tabun1015 14:47, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: mengele is important enough to the plots of both time's arrow and marathon man that his name is mentioned in the wiki articles. both books are actually about the holocaust or about mengeles life , and so are all other references. trueblood 07:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok--Tabun1015 16:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quote trueblood: "mengele is important enough to the plots of both time's arrow and marathon man that his name is mentioned in the wiki articles. both books are actually about the holocaust or about mengeles life , and so are all other references." ok, so again if its ok to include these, then Angel of Death by Slayer should be included as (and i quote YOU trueblood) "..are actually about the holocoust or about mengele's life..." check. oh, and is there any reason why you have final say on absolutely everything in this article? Dark_wounds. 5th March 2008  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.108.73.47 (talk) 16:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  In film and literature examples 

message: The novel "Camouflage" has been repeatedly deleted from the literary references section, with no rational explanation. The novel is noteworthy, as it won the best novel of the year award from science fiction's most prestigious awards, the Nebulas, a couple years ago, and was written by a multiple award-winning and best-selling author. The reference is also far more direct than most of the other literary references, most of which indicate Mengele is briefly mentioned, or that a character is or might possibly be modeled after him, while he appears directly as a character in Camouflage and one of the main characters interacts with him over a period of years, including before, during, and after WWII. If anyone wants to forward a rational reason why Camouflage shouldn't be listed, please lay out the explanation here for discussion prior to another deletion. Thanks. - Reaverdrop (talk/nl/w:s) 20:44, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re. repeat deletions of "Camouflage" novel 

message: I have added a section regarding the Slayer's song Angel of Death. I think that, despite it is a serious article, it can be mentioned here if an information regarding the song's controversy of alleged lack of condemnation is added as I did when writing a section.
: I personaly think it's a good thing. Yet why not merge the different aspects (Film / Literature / Music) in one section. Like "In Popular Culture" or so. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.140.36.118 (talk) 23:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to re-add the information, since it is just as relevent as a character from a film (Marathon Man) being based on him. DarkSaber2k 11:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Slayer controversy - mention or not? 

message: Is there some reference that backs up the claim that as a scientist Dr. Mengele would have been naive enough to believe that Noma was related to race?
80.221.53.178 22:46, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About Noma and race. 

message: i replaced the recent sections with an earlier version that all the necessary info and none of the storytelling elements and superfluous german words sprinkled in, i don't even know why the earlier version got deleted, undetected vandalism maybe
trueblood 15:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  after war and death section 

message: In the section about his flight, it says: 
:In 1959 he fled to Altos, Paraguay, when his address was discovered by Nazi hunters. Martha never managed to adjust to her new life and returned to Europe with her son. Mengele later moved south to Hohenau and from the late 1960s he lived in Embu, a small city near São Paulo, Brazil.
I don't get it. Did he return to Germany from Paraguay only to leave again for South America? --Ben  T/C  19:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: His wife and son went back to europe. He didn't because he would have been caught and Hanged.(Morcus (talk) 01:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction about Mengele's whereabouts 

message: Why does this article say little or nothing about Eichman's life after the war? Would anyone be willing to add this information? In particular, I think someone should write about his death and his attempted capture by the Israelis. User:Notecardforfree May 8, 2007
:Try Adolf Eichmann. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 10:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eichman's life after the war 

message: In uniform? Much more revelant. --HanzoHattori 17:33, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was deleted and I restored it. I agree it is much better than the other one. I have left both up for now. --Guinnog 18:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What happened to the Nazi photo? 

message: Are there any direct documentary sources about Dr. Mengele doing human experiments? Even experiments on animals were forbidden in the Third Reich. Allegations of human experimantation come exclusively from supposed witnesses to the best of my knowledge. There is no other proof. And witnesses are not always the best source, many allegations made by "witnesses" were in fact by the time proven as false even by official historians, such as the "gas chamber at Dachau" or "human soap myth", not to mention the "25 million dead at Treblinka"...
Therefore, I urge for some documentation supplementary to this article, because the sources seem to be rather biased and uncertain.
-Is the testemony of Eva Mozes Kor and his other victims not enough for you?  Tsel 03:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Documentary sources 

message: I do not think this section is justifiable in its present form. I wonder if we can either shorten it or eliminate it entirely. Thoughts? --John 16:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved it here in the meantime. --John 16:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  In film, literature and music 

message: *Mengele has also been used as a fictionalized literary and movie character, featuring prominently in The Boys from Brazil (portrayed by Gregory Peck).''
* The character of Dr. Christian Szell in William Goldman's Marathon Man is based on Mengele.  Szell would later be portrayed in a film version by Laurence Olivier.
*He is one of the lead characters in the movie Out of the Ashes, starring Bruce Davison and Christine Lahti.Internet Movie Database page for Out of the Ashes
*Mengele figured in the 2001 movie The Grey Zone, an account of everyday life in Auschwitz and the hopeless revolt attempted by some of the prisoners.	 
*The controversial 1999 film Nichts als die Wahrheit (Nothing But the Truth) depicts a fictional trial of an 80-year-old Mengele before a German criminal court.	 
*The character Uncle Pepi in Martin Amis's Time's Arrow is based on him.	 
*Mordecai Richler's St-Urbain's Horseman refers to Mengele several times.	 
*Dr Emmenberger, a Nazi doctor in Friedrich Dürrenmatt's book Der Verdacht (translated as Suspicion or The Quarry), is probably a fictionalized and symbolic version of Mengele.	 
*Mengele is briefly mentioned in Elie Wiesel's book Night.
*Mengele is a character in the play Playing for Time by Arthur Miller.
*The German novelist Peter Schneider's 1987 novella Vati (Daddy) is based on the account Rolf Mengele's visit to his father in Brazil in the 1970s published in the German magazine Bunte.
*A 2003 movie based on Schneider's novella, named My Father-Rua Alguem 5555 starred Thomas Kretschmann and Charlton Heston.
*Mengele, played by Daniel Del Ponte, is briefly shown inspecting prisoners (female Jews who worked for Oskar Schindler) in the movie Schindler's List.
*Forgiving Dr. Mengele, a documentary about Holocaust survivor Eva Mozes Kor who controversially forgave Mengele despite the fact that he killed her twin sister, was released in January 2006.
*Mengele is mentioned in Art Spiegelman's graphic novel Maus.
* "Angel of Death", the opening track from thrash metal band Slayer's 1986 album, Reign in Blood, is based on Mengele's actions and contains references to many brutal human experiments and The Holocaust in general.
*A fictionalized account of Mengele's post-war experiences is presented in Climate of Hell  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.191.83 (talk) 23:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: In film, literature and music

message: 71.114.163.55 04:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What Pharmaceutial Company in 1955 did he purchase 50% ownership? 

message: -Mengele was a secondary target of the Mossad operation that captured Eichmann in Argentina in 1960.
- The article mentions that Mengele "got to know other Germans such as Hans-Ulrich Rudel and Adolf Eichmann". It should be mentioned that Eichmann was interrogated on Mengele's whereabouts and at first denied knowing any information and then later revealed that Mengele had lived in Buenos Aires until a couple weeks before Eichmanns' capture (May 1960) therefore Mengele must have moved to Paraguay sometime in April 1960 and not 1959 as mentioned in the article. In the book a postman is quoted to have said that Mengele lived in Buenos Aires until a couple weeks before Eichmanns capture (page 197).  
- During his stay in Buenos Aires Mengele lived in a boardinghouse run by a German woman (Mrs. Jurmann).
- In Buenos Aires Mengele occasionally called himself Mr. Gregor.
-Mengle had two or three lathes which he used for his profession as a metal worker in the Northern Buenos Aires province of Vincente Lopez.  aliasfoxtrot  —Preceding comment was added at 07:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Information found in The House on Garbaldi Street by Isser Harel 

message: Restored a part of the article that was removed by John. Many other articles about major German WW2 personalities (Himmler, Hitler, etc) have sections that are in the same vein. Might as well have removed those while you were at it, John. 83.108.191.83 (talk) 23:52, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That was a lousy argument for restoring it. I saw nothing woth keeping and still don't --John (talk) 00:01, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really see you making any worthwhile counter-arguments. Rewrite it if you must, but don't remove it for purely personal reasons. 83.108.191.83 (talk) 15:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The section could indeed use a good trimming. Tchernobog (talk) 12:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  i was so happy tosee this section gone, why was it put back, you cannot keep it short, i already tried to trim it some time back. trueblood (talk) 18:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

text: if i might quote wp: trivia sections  : Sections with lists of miscellaneous information (such as "trivia" sections) should be avoided as an article develops. Such information is better presented in an organized way.trueblood (talk) 18:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  on second thoughts i put the list back but trimmed it. deleted the boys from brazil, because it is already mentioned in the article and all points that refer to books etc where mengele is briefly mentioned.trueblood (talk) 18:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture 

message: New York Times, By NATHANIEL C. NASH, Published: February 11, 1992
Something about this ought to be put in this article.  NY Times is a reputable source.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CEFDF1E39F932A25751C0A964958260&scp=1&sq=Mengele&st=nyt  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andy120 (talk • contribs) 17:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mengele an Abortionist, Argentine Files Suggest 

message: "Adolf Hitler's account of his time in Auschwitz details certain experiments performed on female prisoners around October 1943, Mengele would experiment on the chosen girls, performing sterilization and shock treatments." - ?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.186.63 (talk) 11:05, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitler's account? 

message: "Adolf Hitler's account of his time in Auschwitz details certain experiments performed on female prisoners around October 1943..."
Hitler has never been to any of the camps. This seems like vandalism; I'm surprised how long this has been written on the article without anyone noticing. --Grimgerde (talk) 04:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitler in Auschwitz? 

message: I have the removed the sentence relating to their avoidance of the gas chambers. Holocaust deniers frequently cite their claims to try and negate the entire Holocaust, and so did the source which cited the aforementioned sentence, thus I have removed it. Unless anyone can provide reliably sourced material that explains how they managed to survive exposure to cyanide in a homicidal gas chamber, this has no place in this article. WilliamH (talk) 14:36, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They don't state they survived gassing, it says they were removed before gassing, it is a reliable article, it's a newspaper article. I'm putting it back. Silent52 (talk) 23:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh, no. Adelaide Institute, like all holocaust denial organizations, is by definition an unreliable source, and may not be cited except in an article about itself. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:04, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But i'm not citing them, i'm citing a newspaper article they've hosted. So by rights if i find the original article then it's valid, under what basis does it change? Silent52 (talk) 20:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, if you find the original article,this particular objection disappears. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 00:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dwarf gassing 

message: They forged his DNA test. I really don't think he drowned in 1979. The officials wanted to put an end on the Mengele case, that's why they forged the evidence of his death. His family never wanted his bones back. Why not? Because HE IS STILL ALIVE!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.94.186.41 (talk) 23:49, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mengele is possibly still alive 

message: As above. I'm removing the note that says it is as a. its not true and b. the Gymnasium article explains what it is.(Morcus (talk) 01:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gymnasium isn't equivicol to High School 

message: The infobox at the beginning of the arcticle states that Mengele's unit was 731. I find it a very strange coincidence that the Japanese human experimentetion unit's number was 731 as well. Does anybody have a source for Mengele's unit number or we're dealing with a misunderstanding/very subtle vandalism attempt? --212.40.117.40 (talk) 09:38, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The preceding comment came from me. Unable to find any information on Mengele's unit number, I removed Unit 731 from the infobox. It must have been a misunderstanding. --Azazell0 (talk) 16:04, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unit 731 in the infobox? 

message: In 1931, at the age of 20, Mengele joined the Devin Motoc FORCE, a paramilitary organization, which was incorporated into the SA in 1933.
Can someone with access revert Devin Motoc FORCE back to Stahlhelm, please? It looks ridiculous. --J3d3md4ss3in3 (talk) 07:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *Done. WilliamH (talk) 09:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Pregnancy rate needs to be changed to 1 in 10, not 1 in 5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9181177  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.65.178.1 (talk) 03:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pregnancy rate 

message: http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/artificial_insemination.html
Maybe Mengele just used artificial insemination with a syringe, using some Nordic material?--Revery (talk) 22:24, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm afraid lots of the stuff claimed in the article is merely unsubstantiated science fiction. --41.18.210.29 (talk) 21:37, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I've removed it, since it's uncited and, as you say, unlikely. Thanks for spotting it. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 10:11, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Science fiction or science 

message: Does anyone know the name of the company he bought 50% of in 1955? Very interested; if anyone has any info please let me know, or publish it here. Bblakeney (talk) 20:30, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pharmaceutical Company? 

message: There is a new book coming out by Argentine historian Jorge Camarasa, a specialist in the post-war Nazi flight to South America in which he claims the experiments were continued in south america: 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/brazil/4307262/Nazi-angel-of-death-Josef-Mengele-created-twin-town-in-Brazil.html
easytiger (talk) 11:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mengele: the Angel of Death in South America 

message: I archived everything older than 2 months.--Adam in MO Talk 00:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archived Talk Page 

message: I recall reading somewhere that as a medical student, Mengele studied under doctors/professors who were implicated in medical experimentation and genocide on the Herero's back in the very early 20th century. I'll see if I can find the reference. Does anyone else know anything about this? Fainites barleyscribs 10:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I also find the article to be significantly lacking in describing his life prior to the Nazi deathcamps. __meco (talk) 10:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone made wholesale deletions on that part of the article back in April. FeygeleGoy/פֿײגעלע גױ‎ (talk) 02:22, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the current article is rather weak. There needs to be more material about his early life and also his pre-Auschwitz war service. Wasn't he a doctor attached to the SS Wiking division? Tchernobog (talk) 21:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early life 

message: Dr. Mengele's grandson Christian Mengele is an artist living in Hollywood and also uses the family name publicly.
What is the source? He never states this on his website or blog. --67.149.150.252 (talk) 11:28, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  grandson 

message: Clearly 'his marriage ... in 1958' would arouse suspicions he was still alive, if they knew about it. The phrasing is confusing. What was the actual clue that he was alive, and how does it relate to his remarriage? His divorce and remarriage in hiding were clearly not announced to the world, otherwise the statement would fall on the 'duh' side: 
'I say my good fellow, did you die in the war?'
'Yes, but I remarried in 1959.'
'Hmm. I find that concatenation of circumstances jolly suspicious, old chap.'
Clearly this doesn't make any sense - some documents must have been found to tip people off. Could someone knowledgeable please rephrase this section?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.145.123.3 (talk) 11:53, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rephrasing 

message: "He supervised an operation by which two Gypsy children were sewn together to create conjoined twins; the hands of the children became badly infected where the veins had been resected, this also caused gangrene."
Can the G~ word be changed to Romani, please?  Many people consider the use of this word to be rude.
Thank you.
 97.127.86.95 (talk) 04:03, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Changed.  The word "gypsy" is ambiguous, so it is better avoided.  Mengele was experimenting on these people because of their race rather than their lifestyle, so "Romanie" is the more appropriate word anyhow.  Epa101 (talk) 21:29, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  G~ word 

message: I've removed the longstanding mention of Josef Mengele's supposed grandson, an American artist. This has been removed many times through the years, but finally a reference has been provided in Gerald Posner's Mengele: the Complete Story. The book looks like it probably passes muster, but no page number was provided so the material cannot be verified. The book is at my library, so when and if the page number is provided I will be checking it out to make sure the information is really in there. At any rate the artist's website does not need to be linked.--Cúchullain t/c 20:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grandson 

message: Is there anyone who can confirm a pronunciation for his name?  In English, he is normally called mɛŋɘlɘ but I think the German pronunciation is meŋeːlɘ.  Can anyone confirm?  Epa101 (talk) 12:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: According to History channels MysteryQuest episode "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" that is the house of Martin Borman not Mengele, Though Mengele did visit his friend there while treating Bormans stomach cancer. I know that Youbue isnt the best of sources but here is the part of the episode that discusses the house on the photo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BaAdXnzWLA 213.185.28.122 (talk) 18:36, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Martin Bormann died in 1945... In Germany. Tchernobog (talk) 18:41, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  House belonged to Martin Borman not Mengele 

message: 'anthroplogy' needs to be changed to anthropology :)
under "early life"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.28.71 (talk) 04:05, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  error :) 

message: How is listing Mengele as an abortion provider anything other than political/religious snark?
:Agreed. He is not notable in that regard. Bus stop (talk) 13:36, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abortion provider 

message: I really thought the article was good over all but my only critique is that I wish the article had more information about the victims of Josef.  I have found on many websites quotes from survivors; if you could find them, incorporate them into your article I bet it would be more helpful for the people who are studying him in class.  I also think that maybe you should add some videos from youtube about what Josef Mengele; they are very interesting and gives a lot of info.  You might also want to check your sources at the end of the paragraphs.  Because I checked one of your sources and no where in that source did I see what you cited from there (this can be seen in when you mentioned how Josef saved some men from a trench and recieved a medal) In a web site that I found it said that most of the information before his time in Auschwitz is innacurate and highly debated because there aren't that many articles on him during this time and a lot of them  that are available contradict each other.  Oh and maybe you could add more pictures of the victims of Auschwitz.  I also believe you should be more discriptive of how Mengele eluded the police and how many places he had to go for them not to find him.  As well as how there was a 3.4 million bounty on him (from Germany and I believe Iran for his return).  You should also mention that when people where looking for him his wife told many that he was dead which made him very hard to find at the beginning.  I also believe you should mention how he died and when they finally found out that they found him.  He died while swimming on a vacation in Brazil.  He had a stroke in the water and by the time anyone was able to pull him out he was dead.  He was burried under the name Wolfgang Gerhard which is why it was so hard for them to find him because he had so many aliases.  Below I'm going to attach a few links for you to further your research and maybe make the article even better then what it is already =)  I believe one of the sources that I'm going to put down you might already have (when I was going through your sources to see how accurate you were I looked at all of them) but I'm going to post it anyway just because it has some good info.  You may also want to watch your plagerism there are a few accounts that you forgot to put quotes around things or cite things when you clearly got them off of a site.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007060
http://www.auschwitz.dk/mengele/id17.htm
Movies on YouTube about Mengele
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owwL0Fynqak
Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG5crf1_gRE&feature=related
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb-d-pAtWD4&feature=related
Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDF5eL_z0go&feature=related
Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3qNxe5PhHs&feature=related
Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Z4qanGo9c&feature=related
So hopefully these are helpful to you and furthering making this article the best ever =)
(and sorry if all of my critiques seem rather anal I have to critique and write on the discussion board about what you need to critique for extra credit in my class so hopefully you don't find my requests too mean or too anal...I'm just trying to help) =)
Have a nice day!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Howdeyhoo (talk • contribs) 00:05, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can you make the article a bit more thorough? 

message: Mengele took an interest in physical abnormalities discovered among the arrivals at the concentration camp. Later, Mengele's interests went beyond the concentration camp. In 1969 Michaella Smith was born, the product of incest between Mengele and his trans-sexual sister Adam Sperber-Compean. While in the concentration camps Mengele cooked up some beefy atrocities for fun or as he said "for der lölz." These included dwarfs, notably the Ovitz family - the children of a Romanian  artist, of whom seven of the 10 members were dwarfs. Prior to their deportation, they toured in Eastern Europe as the Lilliput Troupe. Mengele often called them "my dwarf family"; to him they seemed to be the perfect expression of "the abnorm".[citation needed]
Seriously? "for der lölz."? The information pertaining to the Ovitz family is the only information in this paragraph that remotely makes sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm removing two sentences because one is an Internet meme and the other is an absurd claim that needs to be backed by a source.
The grammar needs cleaning up! That should be "für der lölz." Jeez, people. 178.78.95.96 (talk) 15:43, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  This paragraph needs some serious cleanup. 

message: It is amazing that this article avoids any mention of the Jewish victims of the Holocaust and of Mengele in particular. The only mention of Jews in the article is to a Jewish physician who was imprisoned in a death camp and apparently did some legitimate medical research.
Perhaps this omission betrays no agenda, but it is hard to believe.
141.154.226.252 (talk) 02:48, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you want to have in?  Do you have any sources?  Most of the sources that I have read said that Mengele inflicted his cruelty on the Roma more than any other group, but I have never read any source talking about how he treated Jews differently from his other victims.  Epa101 (talk) 11:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish victims omitted 

message: "Josef Mengele was born on 16 March 1911, the eldest of 213 children,[2]"
typo or vandalism? The article itself claims he was the third eldest child anyway...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.71.223 (talk) 14:25, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  I doubt this is true 

message: what physical evidence exists that he did any experiments on humans? are there any autopsies or records? i think it is amazing what can be said about a man once he is dead.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.255.231 (talk) 23:26, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  physical evidence 

message: An anon IP added the following to the article. I've moved it here as it's clearly more suitable to the talkpage:
FOOTNOTE When in Embu das Artes recently I made enquiries with the gentleman in charge of the cemetery who showed me Mengele's grave but the name on it was Friderieke Gerhard, Not Wolfgang as reported above. I have no doubt that it was the correct grave because this gentleman knew all about Mengele's history so could any body explain why the name appears to have changed? AVF 
The sentence we've currently got for the name 'Wolfgang' has a cite to an NYT piece behind their paywall. Anyone want to investigate? Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 13:16, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Oddly I can't seem to access the article with my NYT access, but "Wolfgang" is correct. See for example,this. The article currently misses this point, but Wolfgang Gerhard was a real person, a Nazi and a friend of Mengele's in Brazil. He later left the country and Mengele altered his documents for his own use; when Mengele died he was buried as "Wolfgang Gerhard".--Cúchullain t/c 13:43, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name on grave 

message: Does anyone know whether any significant scientific contributions came out of those cruel experiments?
:None.  Nazi science in these regards was infamously scientifically unrigorous.
::The above, unsigned comment is unfortunately unfounded and completely false. In fact, scientific experiments performed in Nazi Germany are often noted for their rigour, and, in fact, experiments on Homeopathy (not done by Mengele) provided some of the first systematic evidence against its effectiveness. Similarly, it appears that at least some of the atrocious, unethical experiments conducted by Mengele have led to important discoveries that otherwise wouldn’t have been possible. I say some because the underlying principle of his research – race theory – is scientifically unsound. But nevertheless, the experiments contained meticulously annotated studies of human physiology. I will try to find notable references and perhaps expand the article, --87.77.158.189 (talk) 08:43, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scientific contributions 

message: I gotta take off, but can someone clean up the timeline bit in the South America section.  As it reads Mengele heard about Eichmann and his trial/execution so he moved to Uruguay. Then it proceeds to say he got more anxious in Uruguay when he heard about Eichmann and his trial/execution.  Obviously it can't be both.  tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 21:18, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline confusion 

message: Haaretz - Ofer Aderet - Unraveling the Mengele mystery, 29 April 2011: More than 30 years after the infamous Nazi doctor died under mysterious circumstances, an internal police report reveals just how much effort Israel invested in tracking him down  
    ←   ZScarpia   22:52, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  April 2011 Haaretz article 

message: I removed the reference to Christian Mengele due to the link accessing a blog.keystoneridin! (talk) 02:50, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Very persistent.  I have removed it yet again, as it is a potential BLP violation, sourced only to a blog. Favonian (talk) 21:05, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian Mengele 

message: There is a picture missing, though the info is still there. I don't know how to fix this--can someone who knows how please do it? Thanks.--TEHodson 22:14, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the image wiki-code, there doesn't seem to be a corresponding picture. Maybe it was deleted as a copyvio or something. Thanks. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 23:23, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Groovy.--TEHodson 06:36, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead picture file 

message: : Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. — Bility (talk) 23:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright Issues 

message: "In 1950, he was placed in the reserve medical corps, after which he served with the 5th SS Panzergrenadier Division Wiking in the Eastern Front. In 1952" Im guessing its vandalism. will switch it back. 74.132.249.206 (talk) 13:40, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  nevermind, someone beat me to it! That was fast. 74.132.249.206 (talk) 13:41, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impossible Dates. 

message: A Wiki notice at the head of the article states, "This article possibly contains original research. Please improve it by verifying the claims made and adding inline citations."
However, the article appears to be locked, so no "improvement", "verification", or "addition of citations" is possible.
Who is the final arbiter of such things?  Is there one "senior editor" running Wikipedia, whose opinion trumps all others?  And isn't that contrary to the stated philosophy of Wiki?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 21:40, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Please sign your comments using four tildes, like this: ~~~~.  If you want to edit the article while it is protected beyond your editing authority, the correct procedure is to write here what edit you want to make and why you want to make it.  Someone with more authority will make the edit for you if they consider it will improve the article. There is a formal method, see Wikipedia:Edit requests.  Zerotalk 03:14, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Ask for Editing, if Editing is Not Allowed? 

message: The english page about Josef Mengele states that Mengele fled to Genoa in 1949 where he obtained a passport from the Red Cross International Organization, but this is not true:
Mengele fled to the little village of Termeno, in Sudtirol, where the local authorities issued a false passport (they did the same for Adolf Eichmann and other Nazi criminals) with which he went to Genoa to board the ship to South America.
It was not Italy that helped him, but some people from Sudtirol, who felt very close to the German culture and the Nazi movement79.18.245.190 (talk) 21:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Levy page 263 says he got his Red Cross passport at the Swiss consulate in Genoa. Posner and Ware says the same thing on page 90. Diannaa (talk) 22:46, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Steinacher "Nazis on the Run" Oxford 2011, Mengele was issued a passport in the name of Helmut Gregor on the basis of an ID card from Tramin (Tremino) by the ICRC in Genoa. Might be worth mentioning in more detail though. ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 07:01, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's too much detail, in my opinion. -- Diannaa (talk) 19:53, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Sudtirol versus Genoa

message: It is claimed here that Mengele was assisted in 1949 by Hans-Ulrich Rudel; according to the wp article, Rudel had left Europe in 1948. One of these articles is therefore wrong and should be corrected ASAP. Also, "Worried that his capture would mean a trial and death sentence" is a strangely (humorously?) worded (and entirely unnecessary) phrase. And, in Genoa, "he obtained a passport... from the... Red Cross" - this statement conveys no information, since it applies to all escaping Nazis (more or less, I believe). The question of who actually assisted him is, strangely, not addressed here. Generally the most notorious Nazis (eg. Eichmann) were protected by the Catholic Church; can anyone confirm if this was the case for Mengele, or is it, perhaps, unknown how he escaped? Surely, a "Good Article" should contain such basic information?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Signedzzz (talk • contribs) 05:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the feedback. The information in Hans-Ulrich Rudel about Rudel leaving Europe in 1948 is unsourced and besides, Rudel would not have to be present in Europe to offer assistance. Since the names of additional individuals who assisted Menegele are not mentioned in the sources, it's not possible to add them here. -- Diannaa (talk) 14:01, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Was Rudel actually a member of the SS? How did he "assist", who were the others, and what role did they supposedly play? The article seems to be completely vague on the subject.Signedzzz (talk) 16:53, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

text: The Rudel article states that he met Mengele in South America, ie after Mengele had already escaped - and it is sourced.Signedzzz (talk) 17:17, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have checked Levy page 265-266, the source for this bit, and it says that Rudel moved to South America after the war. His status as a top fighter pilot led to a position in the National Institute of Aeronautics in Argentina. He earned the trust and friendship of dictator Juan Perón. He met Mengele in Venezuela. (Levy, page 265) Rudel served as manufacturers' representative for Karl Mengele & Sons and other German manufacturing firms. He made frequent trips back to Germany in this capacity (page 266). There is nothing on these two pages that says Rudel helped Mengele get out of Europe. So I have taken that out. Rudel did help Mengele relocate into Brazil in 1960 (page 273). Thank you for spotting this mistake. -- Diannaa (talk) 18:48, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

text: The section "After Auschwitz" is based on multiple books, not just one book. See footnotes 57 to 66. -- Diannaa (talk) 14:43, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. But some statements in the section only cite this one book by Levy, who is, as I mention above, not a historian, and therefore not particularly reliable - or, at least, not appropriate for wp.Signedzzz (talk) 16:51, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

text: However, I may be just splitting hairs at this point. Signedzzz (talk) 17:26, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

text: It seems, though, that the second half of the article, from "After Auschwitz" onwards, relies almost entirely on this particular book, written by a non-historian, and one other - about half each. These sections of the article have little credibility as a result. Signedzzz (talk) 18:32, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

text: And as I mentioned, I do not see why the 4 years between the end of the war and his eventual escape from Europe merits only one short paragraph, while his time in S. America, where he did nothing of any significance, is described at such great length. Signedzzz (talk) 19:46, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "After Auschwitz" section incorrect, lacks basic information, & badly written 

message: This article states "The children died of gangrene after several days of suffering", the article The Holocaust has under the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Medical_experiments section a different version, another experiment or one version is wrong? prokaryotes (talk) 03:06, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Same story two versions 

message: This might be added, quote: " Fischer's protégé Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer, and von Verschuer's master pupil Josef Mengele, who eventually continued his teacher's twin studies at the Auschwitz concentration camp", thus Mengele had a close connection. Link http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/bulletin_of_the_history_of_medicine/summary/v085/85.3.kater.html prokaryotes (talk) 03:33, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The internet has many sources claiming Mengele studied under Fischer, this page section, claims it too (based on a weak source) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide#Continuity_between_the_Herero_Genocide_and_the_Holocaust prokaryotes (talk) 10:45, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The source here says that Mengele was a student of  von Verschuer, not of Fischer. I am unable to find any reliable sources, online or in books, that say Menegele was a student of Fischer. Wikipedia is not a reliable source. -- Diannaa (talk) 18:58, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've updated the wrong info with Mengele at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide#Continuity_between_the_Herero_Genocide_and_the_Holocaust prokaryotes (talk) 20:21, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eugen Fischer and Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer 

message: I am not referring to the once given to him after the war. I think it was Beppo or Pepi. He was also known as The Dr. of Death/ The Angel of Death  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.151.210.124 (talk) 20:37, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nickname 

message: Many of our readers on WWII topics are high school students encountering the subject for the first time. This paragraph gives a little background as to the Nazi ideology, so that readers will understand better what was going on at Auschwitz and why Menegele was able to get away with doing what he did.-- Diannaa (talk) 14:15, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The intent of an "introductory history statement" within an article is understandable, and that provided for Nazism is a wonderful summary of that ideology but concerning WWII, those Nazi's were one extensive group of people! If we apply the logic that a summery should be included in an article because of a particular audience segment that most likely will have little if any knowledge of a subject or incident then we have instead of the use of a link to a main article or a segment of a main article we have the potential for countless historical background summaries of the same topic throughout WP. The non-use of links to main topic articles may be an indication that the main article lacks a good summary. In the increasingly me me me know know know generation(s) people have to become aware that everything is not always in the same place. At least now it can be at your secondary body's finger type 24/7/365 (as long as the electricity is good) rather than hunting something down in the stacks. But just like any creative endeavor, the excellence is in the art of the expression. Go for it and see if it works.76.170.88.72 (talk) 19:39, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Background information 

message: "Had he continued this academic focus, Mengele would likely have become a professor." is this more pov regardless as to Mengele saying it, or his biographer or the statement contributor and could better be represented as, "so-and-so said that his academic and research focus could very well have led to a professorship". The use of the camp detainees would not naturally excluded from his work in a Fascist state as the work and actions of individuals was part of the greater development of the country/people?76.170.88.72 (talk) 19:53, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the sentence about his possible professorship. I don't understand your second question; perhaps you could re-word it. -- Diannaa (talk) 21:33, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: "Possible professorship" I'd rather view it as the speculation of the author as to someone's potential career path; even if it was the author's pov. But then if that author is an authority then the statement might have the weight to stand, or at least be the more possible than impossible for someone to consider.76.170.88.72 (talk) 23:08, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I can recall it was the opinion of the author (Kirk Allison of the University of Minnesota). I would have to get the book in on inter-library loan to be sure, so it's simpler to take it out. -- Diannaa (talk) 23:57, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV ? 

message: Why is there little to nothing about his career as an abortionist? --76.105.96.92 (talk) 18:03, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide some sources. -- Diannaa (talk) 18:14, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's one. --76.105.96.92 (talk) 22:50, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I have added some content. -- Diannaa (talk) 23:30, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abortionist 

message: There stands: "Mengele joined the Nazi Party in 1937 and the Schutzstaffel (SS protection squadron) in 1938."
I think in parenthesis should be 'NP protection squadron', or, rather, 'NSDAP protection squadron', as SS = Schutz-staffel = protection squadron. Or 'Nazi Party's protection squadron'? Or even 'SS, NSDAP protection squadron'? That SS is an abreviation what stands for 'Schutzstaffel' is not obvious for everybody and most people keep forgetting that. Well, not here, definitely, and in this article it's clear. 
Sorry to disturb if that's so minor correction that no need to talk about, but thought this article might be protected or smth, so's not all and any can correct/mess up. :) BirgittaMTh (talk) 15:45, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I just removed confusing SS from before 'protection squadron', seems ok to me this way. (Thought about changing not-official-sounding Nazi Party (after all, we do have article 'Communist Party of the Soviet Union' not 'Commie Party'; parallel is obvious) to NSDAP but then found that there's been an almighty discussion about article's name and didn't dare to revive it. Maybe I should?) Oh, and if this change (confusing abbreviation deleted) is accepted by those article-protecting entities, may I remove all this topic, section, from here? Or will you? BirgittaMTh (talk) 16:22, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Normally we leave talk page posts in place, as a record of discussions. I changed it to read  Schutzstaffel (SS; protection squadron), as the SS is well known by the abbreviation, so we need to include it. Also, the abbreviation is used further down in the article, so we need to define it.-- Diannaa (talk) 18:43, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The current change reads better; further, the abbreviation SS should be kept as the organisation is very well known by it and the current format of presentation is in line with other examples in the article, such as: Nazi Sturmabteilung (Storm Detachment; SA). Kierzek (talk) 03:08, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor correction in: Military service 

message: Substituted at 15:09, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment