Talk:1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash

message: JMK is to be congratulated for the stirling work done on this article.Phase4 20:13, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Stirling work

message: This article is in serious need of a cleanup as it is laced with original research and uncited information. Socrates2008 (Talk) 04:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Major cleanup required

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:NkomatiAccord.jpg

message: Some references supplied, more to be done. JMK (talk) 01:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work! Socrates2008 (Talk) 14:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for keeping me on the straight track Socrates, with well-placed tags. JMK (talk) 08:45, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: I've assessed this article as C-Class. If attention is paid to sorting out the missing references, this can easily become B-Class, and maybe even progress further. Ron2K (talk) 06:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject South Africa assessment

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.ecr.co.za/content/view/3557/81/
** In 1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash on 2011-05-25 05:18:07, 404 Not Found
** In 1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash on 2011-06-07 12:14:43, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 12:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://70.84.171.10/~etools/newsbrief/1996/news1018
** In 1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash on 2011-05-25 05:18:16, Socket Error: 'A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond'
** In 1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash on 2011-06-07 12:15:33, Socket Error: 'A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond'
--JeffGBot (talk) 12:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=79767,1,22
** In 1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash on 2011-05-25 05:18:16, Long Chain of Redirects:  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  -> 
** In 1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash on 2011-06-07 12:15:46, Long Chain of Redirects:  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  -> 
--JeffGBot (talk) 12:16, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 3 

message: As I mentioned before I think its not great that only source provided for this section, http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/2006/10/26/B1/19/polpik.html is just a URL (essentially an anonymous attribution). Contained in it are the personal comments of Pik Botha concerning the crash and continuing controversy, I would assume they appeared somewhere (newspaper Op-Ed or something similar?) but I have not been able to find a different version yet. I do believe they are true, and quite fascinating: here is the Google Translate version in case you don't read Afrikaans. But when using primary sources (which ARE appropriate in many instances) they need to be always presented as (ex.):
According to Pik Botha the black boxes were not handed to the Soviets because "there was suspicion they would be tampered with"
Botha stated that he informed Mozambican representatives to accompany he to the crash site
The whole section is just Pik Botha's version of events, so reliable secondary sources would be far preferred for content here.
Not that the source provided, misgivings of reliablity aside, isn't useful, its pure gold really. But we should use it specifically to show his recollections, not factual information. LoveUxoxo (talk) 03:58, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Investigations - South African response: use of primary source 

message: I don't see what currently is there that should be kept. It's actually more refuting the Mozambican submission than stating it clearly and fairly. Replace with the following. Err, the placeholder text is filled in easily, a trained monkey should be able to do that from the source material. Sourcing isn't an issue - it's not like I make this stuff up; I read the source material, sleep on it, and when I wake up under my pillow there is a note with 5 paragraphs of prose written on it. (talk) 07:36, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Independent Mozambican investigation" section 

message: Technically, its not the "Margo Commission" but the "Report of the Board of Inquiry into the accident to Tupolev 134A-3 aircraft C9-CAA on 19th October 1986". Using "Margo Commission" wouldn't be so bad if that wasn't the exact same term used in this article, creating confusion. LoveUxoxo (talk) 06:28, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Margo Commission" 

message: the current 1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash is complete retardese. The redundant "Tupolev" in there is bad enough, but more importantly the aircraft model involved in the crash isn't notable. The death of the 1st President of Mozambique, widely viewed to have been an assassination, and still having incredibly strong emotional resonance 25 years later is. 1986 Mozambican presidential plane crash, 1986 Samora Machel plane crash, some variation etc. all function better as an article title per WP:TITLE. LoveUxoxo (talk) 06:37, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article title 

message: I'm going through the refs reformatting them into "Notes" and "References" allowing us to cite multiple different sections of a source without clutter. Mostly this is working fine.
* The http://www.dispatch.co.za/2003/01/13/southafrica/EMACHEL.HTM link isn't working and it think(?) the Dispatch website doesn't allow Wayback Machine bots to crawl and archive, so I can't find another version, so for now I dropped it. Same with http://www.dispatch.co.za/1999/05/17/southafrica/pik.htm ...will keep looking, or at some point hopefully Dispatch fixes it and they can be accessed again
* The Zambeze article was never accessible online, here is a supposed translation of the original (from http://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39549&start=20) So if the information contained inside is worth including in the article (the basic facts are already covered by the Ericka Gibson Beeld story on 26 November 2008) I think a bit of research would need to be done (who translated it?) before including. 
* http://www.security.co.za/fullStory.asp?NewsId=10392 has a version of The Citizen article by Paul Kirk. But again, I can't find any better archiving (yet) of the original story, who's URL now doesn't work: http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=79767,1,22 I've removed it for now, can always be added back in if necessary.
I've found the web versions of the Beeld articles on their website and updated the links accordingly, except for the van Rensburg article from 1993: http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/1993/09/7/8/3.html 
OK, I think I finally understand what the website these articles are on is, "Media 24 Archive". "Media24 operates and maintains the Media24 Archive consisting of a web enabled database of articles from the following sources..." http://152.111.1.88/Media24_Archive_Web_Site_Terms_and_Conditions.htm Awesome, sounds like a legit archive of news stories. I saw a wall of Afrikaans text and a non-descriptive URL and assumed the worst. I changed all the references to link direct to the sources, which I think is good. I'll add archive links as backups in those cases, which is better LoveUxoxo (talk) 02:40, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

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*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.polity.org.za/polity/govdocs/commissions/1998/trc/2chap6a.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nber.org/~bolken/leaders.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111001024821/http://www.africanstudies.uct.ac.za/postamble/vol2-2/assassination.pdf to http://www.africanstudies.uct.ac.za/postamble/vol2-2/assassination.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.justice.gov.za/trc/media/1998/9806/s980616c.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://70.84.171.10/~etools/newsbrief/1996/news1018
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/2003/01/13/2/2.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/2006/10/21/B1/17/amachel.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/2006/10/26/B1/19/polpik.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/2008/11/28/B1/18/tegdias.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.southafrica.info/about/history/machel-monument.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Replaced archive link http://www.webcitation.org/66oXCZZ11?url=http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/accidents%20%26%20incid/reports/OldReports/C9-CAA.pdf with https://web.archive.org/web/20110929030634/http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/accidents%20%26%20incid/reports/OldReports/C9-CAA.pdf on http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/accidents%20%26%20incid/reports/OldReports/C9-CAA.pdf
*Replaced archive link http://www.webcitation.org/66oXCZZ11?url=http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/accidents%20%26%20incid/reports/OldReports/C9-CAA.pdf with https://web.archive.org/web/20110929030634/http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/accidents%20%26%20incid/reports/OldReports/C9-CAA.pdf on http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/accidents%20%26%20incid/reports/OldReports/C9-CAA.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.polity.org.za/polity/govdocs/commissions/1998/trc/2chap6a.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/003355305774268165
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.justice.gov.za/trc/media/1998/9806/s980616c.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=4857
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.beeld.com/In-Diepte/Nuus/Die-mites-oor-Machel-20100617
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.beeld.com/In-Diepte/Nuus/Die-mites-oor-Machel-20100617
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.beeld.com/In-Diepte/Nuus/Machel-omstredenheid-20100617
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.sardc.net/Editorial/sadctoday/view.asp?pubno=v9n4&vol=474
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/how-we-assassinated-a-president-1.419392
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.beeld.com/Wereld/Nuus/Machel-ramp-Vlieeniers-glo-gemuilband-20100617
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.southafrica.info/about/history/samora-machel-25.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 4 external links on 1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/5iRpLb2Ia?url=http://www.polity.org.za/polity/govdocs/commissions/1998/trc/2chap6a.htm to http://www.polity.org.za/polity/govdocs/commissions/1998/trc/2chap6a.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110722023349/http://www.rnf.is/media/eydublod/Annex_13.pdf to http://www.rnf.is/media/eydublod/Annex_13.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111006163629/http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/1993/09/7/8/3.html to http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/1993/09/7/8/3.html
*Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/5iXTgw3IW?url=http://www.sardc.net/Editorial/sadctoday/view.asp?pubno=v9n4&vol=474 to http://www.sardc.net/Editorial/sadctoday/view.asp?pubno=v9n4&vol=474
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)