Talk:Lake Chaubunagungamaug

message: I have moved the below discussions from Talk:Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg. I don't see much point having the separate talk page after the merger
===Linguistics===
Perhaps this should be moved to the Nipmuck language wikipedia.  I see no evidence that this name has been accepted by the Bureau of Geographical Names at the USGS.  It appears to have been developed for publicity purposes, and it is difficult too take it seriously. Eclecticology 20:20 Dec 17, 2002 (UTC)
:I recommend we leave it: it isn't our job to judge whether the folks of Webster are entitled to use the Indian name. If the Indian name is itself some sort of hoax, that would be very well worth adding. And if there is some sort of question about the "official name" of the lake, that can be added to the article as well--but I don't know what rules are standard among geographers for judging the legitimacy of a place name. --Len
May I recommend moving it to a hyphenated title, just so as not to screw the formatting, as has been done for Llanfair PG?
How do you get "Englishmen" from "Chargogg", or is it vice versa? -phma
:Best authority I can find indicates that the word means "knifemen", which was either a designation of Englishmen generally or else a reference to the mill built near the Manchaug village by Samuel Slater. This could stand more confirmation, and I'm not certain why the etymology is considered so debatable since there are surviving Nipmucks in the area. Based on this information, I would conjecture that the most literal translation of "chargogg-agogg-manchaug-agogg" would be "knife-men-manchaug-men", meaning "Englishmen living near the Manchaugs". --Len
::Note that this literal translation is purely conjectural, even if I'm pretty pleased with it. Partial support for the theory that "agogg" denotes men is the origin of the name of the Manchaug tribe: it was "Monuhchogok", where the "ogok" can be conjectured to also mean "people" (on the fairly slender basis that many tribal nations named themselves "humans" and named everyone else by some sort of pejorative). I'm very interested for more detailed information on the etymology here. --Len.
::If it helps any, Nipmuc is a dialect of Algonquin which is extremely close to Massachusett. So anyone with knowledge of any Algonquin language, be it Naragansett, Ottawa, Abenaki, or any of a few dozen others, can probably comment intelligently on this point. --Len.
:::In the present absence of Algonquins on this discussion page, the long name of the lake reminded me immediately of the Welsh commercially extended name for Llanfair Pwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales, United Kingdom. Such is not the case for its original North-American Indian name. Might the '(Char)goggagogg' and 'gagogg' in the prefix be compared with (one of the variant spellings of) 'gogogoch' - in other words, where there Welsh jokers amongst the immigrants? Or was the longer version first recorded after the Welsh suffix had become world-famous? SomeHuman 02:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussions from [[Talk:Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg]] 

message: Perhaps this should be moved to the Nipmuck language wikipedia.  I see no evidence that this name has been accepted by the Bureau of Geographical Names at the USGS.  It appears to have been developed for publicity purposes, and it is difficult too take it seriously. Eclecticology 20:20 Dec 17, 2002 (UTC)
:I recommend we leave it: it isn't our job to judge whether the folks of Webster are entitled to use the Indian name. If the Indian name is itself some sort of hoax, that would be very well worth adding. And if there is some sort of question about the "official name" of the lake, that can be added to the article as well--but I don't know what rules are standard among geographers for judging the legitimacy of a place name. --Len
May I recommend moving it to a hyphenated title, just so as not to screw the formatting, as has been done for Llanfair PG?
How do you get "Englishmen" from "Chargogg", or is it vice versa? -phma
:Best authority I can find indicates that the word means "knifemen", which was either a designation of Englishmen generally or else a reference to the mill built near the Manchaug village by Samuel Slater. This could stand more confirmation, and I'm not certain why the etymology is considered so debatable since there are surviving Nipmucks in the area. Based on this information, I would conjecture that the most literal translation of "chargogg-agogg-manchaug-agogg" would be "knife-men-manchaug-men", meaning "Englishmen living near the Manchaugs". --Len
::Note that this literal translation is purely conjectural, even if I'm pretty pleased with it. Partial support for the theory that "agogg" denotes men is the origin of the name of the Manchaug tribe: it was "Monuhchogok", where the "ogok" can be conjectured to also mean "people" (on the fairly slender basis that many tribal nations named themselves "humans" and named everyone else by some sort of pejorative). I'm very interested for more detailed information on the etymology here. --Len.
::If it helps any, Nipmuc is a dialect of Algonquin which is extremely close to Massachusett. So anyone with knowledge of any Algonquin language, be it Naragansett, Ottawa, Abenaki, or any of a few dozen others, can probably comment intelligently on this point. --Len.
:::In the present absence of Algonquins on this discussion page, the long name of the lake reminded me immediately of the Welsh commercially extended name for Llanfair Pwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales, United Kingdom. Such is not the case for its original North-American Indian name. Might the '(Char)goggagogg' and 'gagogg' in the prefix be compared with (one of the variant spellings of) 'gogogoch' - in other words, where there Welsh jokers amongst the immigrants? Or was the longer version first recorded after the Welsh suffix had become world-famous? SomeHuman 02:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Linguistics

message: Recently, User:Sertraline changed the text that said that Route 16 terminated at 395 near the lake.  Why was this changed?  It sure looks like it terminates there on a map, is there any evidence disputing that? —Cleared as filed. 12:29, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Route 16 not ending at 395? 

message: I'm simply making an observation, here. How is it that the long version of the name is spelled differently in many places, including on official signage around the lake, yet is a spelling word in the local elementary schools?
*Exactly.  I removed this statement.  I suspect it is the shorter version of the name that kids may have been tested on. House of Scandal 01:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disputed spelling yet...? 

message: This article isn't silly or spurious.  Even if this super-long version of the name may be attributed to a newspaper article 80 years ago, its a well-developed meme and is often discussed and mentioned in print.  Regarding the proposed merger, I am slightly against it as one article is about the lake and one is about its wierd name.  If they are merged, I guess having a section on "The lake" and "The name" wouldn't be so bad.  House of Scandal 01:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separate 

message: End of the moved discussions. Nil Einne (talk) 09:49, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  End of moved discussions 

message: The pronunciation seems unusually mangled. The pronouncer didn't even try.70.92.74.148 19:33, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Audio Pronunciation 

message: Dirk is awesome
Correct me if this isn't your experience, but ... I've only heard Webster natives refer to this lake in two ways: as "Webster Lake" or as "Lake Chargoggaggog..." (the 45/49-letter version). "Lake Chaubunagungamaug," the title of this article, I've only seen on maps, presumably to save space. None of the signs by the side of the lake carry this name, nor does it appear on locally sold souvenirs or in the local media. "Lake Webster" I've never heard of in any place. So of four names given in the article, in their order of appearance, I've found the first two to be rare, if existant at all, and the last two -- the "alternate name," "Lake Chargogg ...," and "Webster Lake" -- to be the most common. Also, the lake is most famous for its name; and it's the 49-letter version, not the abbreviated "Lake Chaubunagungamaug," that gets the attention. Should this article be renamed? Wiki Wistah 07:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Alternate' Name? -- Rename? 

message: "Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg, the extra-long version of the name, is the longest place name in the United States and 6th longest in the world. Its 15 uses of 'g' are the most instances of any letter in a word. The name also contains more 10 instances of the letter 'a', more than any other word in the English language."
I only count 9 occurances of the letter "a".  Is the count wrong, or is the spelling? 159.53.46.141 15:14, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Actually, the source that cites ten uses of the letter "A" is an even longer version of this name, 49 letters long (not counting "Lake").  It is Chargoggagoggmanchauggauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg (extra letters in bold).  See this link via the wayback machine.  This version also has 17 G's, not 15.  I'll add a mention to the article, though I don't know its authenticity/the commonness of its use.  Baileypalblue (talk) 18:28, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Letter Count Error

message: Merge after DYK.Bakaman 22:15, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, a merge seems appropriate. Circeus 22:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Merge with what? How can a merge to nowhere be appropriate? Kghusker 15:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge Proposal

message: Larbot - run by User:Lar -  t/c 14:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article was selected for [[WP:DYK|DYK]]! 

message: The Quabbin Reservoir is both freshwater and larger than Lake Webster.  This claim should be qualified that it's the largest natural body of freshwater in the Commonwealth.  
GeeJimmy 14:41, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "largest body of freshwater"

message: On the DYK! I learned much. I thought it was a spoof or a hoax until I read it. I really like the poem. Congrats again to everyone who worked on it, NinaEliza 15:31, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Congratulations

message: Can someone please add a .wav or .ogg of the correct, full pronunciation of the name of the lake?
:And/or IPA? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:47, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Request

message: I failed this article on its Good article nomination for the following reasons:
* It fails requirement 1(a) the prose is comprehensible, the grammar is correct, and the structure is clear at first reading.
:There are three separate mentions in three separate places that the natives of Webster prefer the long name, which seems awfully redundant. The entire section about the lake's name could benefit from some subheadings, or at least some grouping of related ideas.
* It fails requirement 1(c) [the article] generally complies with the Wikipedia Manual of style
:The MOS states: "Check links after they are wikified to make sure they direct to the correct concept; many dictionary words lead to disambiguation pages and not to complete articles on a concept." This article links to boundary, editor, and skating – all disambiguation pages.
* It fails requirement 2(c) sources should be selected in accordance with the guidelines for reliable sources;
:The section on Reliable Sources states: "A self-published source is a published source that has not been subject to any form of independent fact-checking, or where no one stands between the writer and the act of publication. It includes personal websites and books published by vanity presses. Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources." Source #1 is a personal page hosted at AOL.
* It fails requirement 6 [the article] contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
:This article contains no images, and would benefit from at least a picture of the lake and a map showing its location. Since "official signs near the lake" are mentioned, a picture of one or two of those might be helpful in illustrating the related point.
I did find this an interesting article, but it needs some work to meet GA standards. Acdixon 16:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA nom

message: Should there be a mention of it being referenced in the Gilmore Girls episode "Welcome to the Doll House" (6x06)? --WTRiker (talk) 19:04, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture 

message: Link to farsi (فارسی) page is invalid. I don't know how to remove it, someone please do that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.183.244.165 (talk) 09:07, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fixed. In the future, you can edit yourself if you'd like, click on edit this page, scroll to the bottom, delete the offending link, and click save page.  - Epson291 (talk) 17:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  invalid link in "Languages" part 

message: In the "Name" section, a paragraph reads: "In the 1950s, a plan to set the official name of the water to Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg rather than the longer version inspired a poem of doggerel verse" which then mentions that the name must have 15 g's and no fewer.  "Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg" is the longer version, with 15 g's. It appears that the plan was to shorten the name to something else. This should be corrected. ccdesan (talk) 14:07, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Two years on this hasn't been corrected. Koro Neil (talk) 02:19, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear Reference 

message: lake carlyarwaa  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.194.27.98 (talk) 23:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  lake carlyarwaa 

message: I am a Webster lake resident.  Please change the heading name to the correct spelling "Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChocoRiver (talk • contribs) 22:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please change heading 

message: I just did a quick copyedit of this page, but it still needs work. I put all the stuff about the name into the "Name" section and tried to reduce some of the redundancy and improve the flow and wording (but it still jumps around from this to that). The main thing I wanted to mention here is that I took out one of the references used and some text sourced to it. The link is  , an old (now web archived) page titled "A Collection of Word Oddities and Trivia, Page 10". It is one of a bunch of pages on "word oddities and trivia". These pages are fun and I've enjoyed them for years, but they are not a reliable source, especially for the kind of claims they were backing up in this article, specifically: 
Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg, the full-length version of the name, is the longest place name in the United States and 6th longest in the world. An even longer, 49-letter version of the name, "Chargoggagoggmanchauggauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg" has been cited (extra letters in bold). Its 17 uses of "g" are the most instances of any letter in a word. The name also contains 10 instances of the letter "a" (not including the "a" in "lake"), more than any word in the English language.
The claims about being one of the longest place names in the US and world might be possible to reference with the GNIS page, , which says that the "long form name" is the fifth longest word in the world and the longest lake name anywhere, but note it says this claim comes from the Guiness Book of Records according to "The Boston Globe, 1992". While the USGS GNIS database is usually a reliable source, in this specific case I don't think it is. 
Finally, note that one of the main references used,  (Fabrication leaves us gasping - Old twist to name of lake comes to light), is a dead link. Maybe someone can find a replacement? It would be nice if this page was better--the lake is famous for its name (the page gets hundreds of hits a day), but this page is more confusing than helpful about it. Pfly (talk) 18:17, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Wayback machine from 2006: http://web.archive.org/web/20060508005049/http://www.websterlakeassociation.com/GeneralInterest/Fabricationleavesusgasping.htm Snezzy (talk) 11:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Haha – have you read the blog entry the photo comes from? The sign is misspelt, and that's actually pretty much obvious. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 22:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some comments on sources etc 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hi everyone,
it would be great if somebody could upload a record of the name of the lake (long and short version). It's hart to imagine how this word is actually pronounced. Have a nice day, -- T.seppelt (talk) 15:10, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Why isn't the article named "Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg"? Theobegley2013 (talk) 13:18, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  name change