Talk:Wulf Zendik

message: I'll see what i can do to come up with the needed citation. appreciate the help... peacock language and ad terms, yeah I see that ... I got this from the Zendik site - I'll see what I can do to get sources for things I can, etc... please bear with me...
Jyre 00:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  definitely need some citations - how to get them?

message: I started tagging statements that need adequate sources, but I don't have all day.  I'm also deleting NPOV statements like, "They predicted greatness for this strange child."  You need to cite a statement like that in a quote.  And please don't invent one or cite it from yourself. - Rashaun 15:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: things that need citations

message: Over the next week or so i'll work on the links, and the layout, and put up a picture. This page is intended to provide specific biographical information about Wulf Zendik which is not appropriate for the Zendik Farm article page. This will be a work in progress for a few days. I appreciate any suggestions on how to make this an excellent wiki article. Jyre 23:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  entry by Jyre

message: Wulf's family gave me permission to post this biographical information.)
Jyre 04:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The (family of) the subject of an article is not a reliable source for a biographical article. I'm going to trim out the worst of the bias and unsourced material from this article. Wikipedia is not a forum for hagiography and in particular we insist on proper sourcing of all information. Gwernol 12:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  not sure if this is where to cite the source for this bio article...  

message: This was one of the worst articles I've read on Wikipedia. This is an encyclopedia, not a place for the glorification of an individual. It breached virtually every rule and standard that we have for content. I have removed the unsourced material, original research and [{WP:POV|biased language]]. There is almost no reliably sourced information about Zendik: all we really know is he wrote one novel and founded a commune. That's what the article now says. I urge all editors of this article to exercise extreme caution when expanding this article to make sure all information is properly sourced. The Zendik Farm organization itself cannot be considered a reliable source for these purposes. Gwernol 12:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great work. - Rashaun 22:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reduced to a stub 

message: I originally found them (members of the community) in Boston pushing their products on the street.  In looking further for information about "Zendik Farm" I found reference not only to Boulevard, California (Watchman Fellowship Cult Catalog 1993), but to North Carolina Batzloff, Brandon "Finding the Line Between Collective Community and Collective Insanity", and West Virginia (their mailing address on their web site).  Do they have multiple sites, or have they moved around?  --Bejnar (talk) 19:19, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What I know is that in the late 80's and early 90's the commune was located in CA, and it is indeed now located in WV. Not sure about the NC. But it is a single community, not multiples. Sly Soprano (talk) 20:53, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I lived on their farm after they were forced out of Boulevard, CA. What a dump they left behind. Kidshare (talk) 23:59, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Location Zendik Farm

message: This debate took place 3 years ago. Please do not add Zendik's ideas like "creavolution",ect., unless you can provide reliable sources. They will just be quickly removed.Mk5384 (talk) 06:12, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, please do not add unsourced information to this article.Mk5384 (talk) 07:36, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beating a dead horse 

message: This group sells their merch. around DC. Mr. Zendik, who I met a few times in the 1980s, was certainly a character. I have attempted to add even-handed, factual info here; however, the over-the-top, unsubstantiated achievements listed in the early versions of this article sound much more like the person I met than our sober, Wikipedia style. I hope we are striking a proper balance at this point in providing some basic reference info for the public. Trilliumz (talk) 02:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Attempted to update this article

message: There are only two online sources from "former members" of the Zendik group. One is an online forum and the other is a personal blog. Can online forums or personal blogs EVER be reliable and wiki-credible sources?
Also the word "cult" is inherently negative and biased, though I know some have used that word about the Zendik group. There is no defining difference between a "cult" and a "modern religion" or "philosophically defined commune/community" except for POV.
Not interested in opening old battles, I remember this site a few years ago.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.82.212.222 (talk) 20:39, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are personal blogs or online forums acceptable sources? 

message: "The Zendik group has been characterized as a cult by its detractors, including several former members of the community who report various mistreatments.[6]" need to be deleted due to the issues raised in the section above. The word "cult" is inherently negative and POV, and the source used is a personal blog from a "former member." I will wait for more feedback before deleting the sentence though.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.198.135.2 (talk) 20:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need to be deleted. Inherently biased POV wording and unreliable source. 

message: I stayed at Zendik Farm in the Southern California desert for a month or so in 1989. It definitely met the definition of a cult. Even more glaringly obvious than the authoritarian aspects of sexual control of the members was the blatant child abuse of very young children and toddlers. I realize this is an encyclopedia article and everything in it needs to be sourced, but I'm disappointed that this observation of child abuse has not made it into in this article. More generally, I'm disappointed this article paints such a positive picture of Wulf Zendik, since Zendik Farm was such a negative, miserable place, with authoritarian leader Arol Wulf perpetrating pain and alienation from the top down. [Wulf Zendik himself was not present during my stay.] Fp cassini (talk) 14:10, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  a cult more notable for child abuse than for sexual mind games