Talk:Maria von Trapp

message: What sort of music did they perform? There isn't a single word about it in the whole article. One only learns that they were singing.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.80.32.72 (talk) 12:55, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Music

message: Didn't Maria get accused of being abusive or something in recent TV interviews with her stepkids?
:They said she had a fierce and sudden temper, though it would blow over quickly.  Sean Lotz  talk  00:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In her last book, "Maria," published in 1972, she mentioned her fierce and sudden temper, saying the storm would blow over quickly.  For her, anyway.  Her husband and the rest of family had to walk around on eggshells, wondering when the storm would start again.Alexander Springstea (talk) 00:11, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Supposedly, one of the requirements of Wikipedia is that all articles must strive for verifiable accuracy.  In its present form, this article fails that test miserably.  The article states that Maria's daughter, Rosmarie, was born in 1929, but cites a source (i.e. Maria's sworn declaration of intention) which states that Rosmarie was born in 1928.  I add a tag pointing out the inconsistency and suggest that the article needs cite-checking.  Within a few minutes, the "smack bot" comes along and reverts my edit.  No attempt is made, however, to explain why the article should continue making statements that are not supported by cited sources.
The problem, of course, is that if Rosmarie was born in 1928, Maria was seven months pregnant at the time of her marriage.  That may be unpleasant, disconcerting, or even disillusioning to some, but facts are facts, and there is no reason to ignore Maria's sworn statements on the subject.  In both the Declaration of Intention and the Petition for Naturalization, Maria states that she was married on November 26, 1927, and that Rosmarie was born in February, 1928.
174.22.236.38 (talk) 05:05, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Violates One of the Pillars of Wikipedia

message: From reading Maria von Trapp's autobiographies, I know that missionary work was an extremely important part of her life. It's curious that no mention of her missionary work appears in this article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.140.109 (talk) 00:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Missionary work

message: The first wife of Georg von Trapp was Frances Whitehead, granddaughter of Robert Whitehead.  She met him when launching a submarine for the Austrian navy, he was the captain.  Her grandfather was an engineer from Bolton in Lancashire and worked on various naval projects inclduing developing the self-powered torpedo.  --jmb 22:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agree. Quis separabit? 20:14, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Mother

message: The word "baronet" is almost certainly used incorrectly on the page; it's more likely to be a case of so-called "untitled nobility". AnonMoos 00:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Baronet"

message: —72.81.84.211 (talk) 12:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Himmler Headquarters?  Ridiculous! 

message: There is a reference to the fate of the von Trapp's former home in "The Trapp Family Singers" by Maria Augusta Trapp, published by Geoffrey Bles, 1953. On p. 284 she writes:
"After Armistice day when the boys [Maria's sons] were still in Europe, they had gone for a short visit to Salzburg and found that our old home there had been confiscated by Heinrich Himmler; that it had been made his headquarters for the last period of that cruel war; that the chapel had been turned into a beer parlour; and what had been Father Wasner's room had become Hitler's quarters when he came there."
This is either true, or someone is lying - the boys, those who gave them this information, or Maria herself. On the same page, she goes on to write:
"When it [the house] was given back to us after the war, we prayed that we might be able to sell it. Our prayer was answered. the house was sold to a religious order in America which wanted to establish a seminary in Europe. The place is now called Saint Joseph's Seminary." 
Whatever the truth of this, the article certainly needs more work.
--Aspiro (talk) 07:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Himmler HQ not so ridiculous? 

message: In December, 2007, I wrote to a Vienna tourist information organization, asking for information about the "State Teachers College for Progressive Education."  I received the following answer:
"we thank you for your email and your interest in Vienna.We asked at several institutions like the "Wiener Stadtschulrat" and the "Dachverband für Selbstbestimmtes Lernen" but none could tell us anything about such a school. Probably this college has or had a german name. But a 'State Teachers College for Progressive Education' is not known in Vienna.We are sorry not beeing of assistance to you in that case.With best regards,
So it looks like no one in Vienna has heard of the institution.  Also, when I run a search for "State Teachers College for Progressive Education" on Yahoo!, I receive only 46 hits, and ALL of them mention Maria von Trapp.  Was Maria the only person who ever attended it?
Maria, in her 1972 book, "Maria," claims that the State Teachers College for Progressive Education was internationally known, and that students from Columbia University would come to observe its methods.  Did it just disappear?  Or is it a figment of Maria's imagination?  Her books are riddled with contradictions, and her statements contradict historical documents.  Perhaps this is just another part of it.
John Paul Parks (talk) 01:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: State Teachers College for Progressive Education

message: The article needs to be put in chronological order. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 10:39, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: The article for her husband states that his title was Ritter. If correct, this does NOT make her a baroness. http://www.wiki-en.genealogy.net/German_Nobility states: "In Bavaria and especially Austria, the hereditary title of Ritter (Knight) was given to families, but they were still considered part of the untitled nobility. Much the same applies to the title of Edler, which is mainly northern and central German. While the wife and daughters of an Edler were titled Edle, the wife of a Ritter was called a Frau (in this sense Lady) and not Ritterin." So I've removed the baroness from her name, even though she was often called that in the English language press. However, it would seem to be a typical bit of German titles creep. Engleham (talk) 17:06, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You are arguing truth vs verifiability. I haven't seen any sources beyond what I have added that use Baron and Baroness including Encyclopedia Britannica, the anti Baron crowd is using original research, and haven't provided any reliable sources. Even if the titles are incorrect by Austrian nobility standards, that is what there were known as. We have Colonel Sanders in the US, and honorific title. Was he a military Colonel, no ... was he entitled to be called Colonel Sanders, yes, by the media and by the governor who proclaimed him one. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 22:41, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maria's title 

message: Maria was never entitled to call herself "von Trapp". Georg's title was abolished in 1919 (Austrian nobility), and his name became Georg Trapp. It was actually illegal for him to call himself "von Trapp". Hence, the name of the group "The Trapp Family Singers". So the question of what Maria's title should be is moot, because her husband had no title at all when she knew him. She was entitled to call herself "Frau Korvettenkapitän Maria Trapp", since one could use military ranks. (Aside: Google the Austrian obsession with titles: My wife would be "Frau Magister Doctor Major-Arzt".) On moving to the US, where "von", if present, is just a meaningless part of a last name and immigrants often change their names, the family awarded itself the "von" which Georg had possessed earlier. 184.155.4.146 (talk) 13:24, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Maria's Title -- No Title at all

message: On the one hand, we've got an unofficial document and (apparently) the family website with a conflict of interest (preserving Maria's reputation). On the other hand, we've got the work of a scholar and an official government document. I'm calling shenanigans on this one. The reliable sources point to a 1928 birth, and that's what we should list. Rklawton (talk) 23:41, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The documents referenced above appears to read slightly different.
*9/27/39 "List or Manifest of Alien"... 1929
*10/7/39 "Records of Aliens Held for Special Inquiry"  1929
*1/21/44 "United States Declaration of Intention"... 1928
That's one private document 1929, one official document 1929, one official document 1928.
--CSvBibra (talk) 00:41, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

text: It's logical that the "Aliens held..." document takes its information from the ship's manifest as the two events were related and in sequence. The "Declaration" document was taken under oath and is more detailed. Specifically, the immigration documents don't actually list a birth date but rather only Rosemarie's age whereas the sworn document contains birth dates. Ideally we just find and use her original birth certificate. Rklawton (talk) 01:19, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

text: Can you post/link a copy? Rklawton (talk) 21:13, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, she could, if she hadn't been blocked indef for block evasion 3 years ago... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:53, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a shame because looking at their user contributions it seems like AndreaMimi is a history student/graduate that lives in Salzburger and likely has actually seen the birth certificate and could provide a copy. I left a message on their talk page in case they're interested in getting unblocked. Year Zero is a concept (talk) 02:29, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Rosmarie's birth date 

message: I contacted the civil registry office in Salzburg:
Stadt: Salzburg Magistrat, Einwohner - und Standesamt
Mirabellplatz 4
Postfach 83
5024 Salzburg
inquiring about the procedure for obtaining a birth record for a person born in or near Salzburg in 1928 or 1929.
I was advised that the registry office’s records only go back to 1939.  For records prior to that time, they suggested that I contact the Archdiocese of Salzburg.
This is consistent with other information I know about Austria (e.g. prior to 1939, there was no civil marriage in the country, everything was handled by the church).
So, AndreaMimi, what sort of “birth certificate” did you see?  If any contemporaneous record is available for Rosmarie, it would be a baptismal certificate.  Show us what you saw.
John Paul Parks (talk) 14:11, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Civil Registry in Salzburg

message: "The family also made an appearance on an Elvis Presley Christmas record"
Which one?? This article is just dreadful.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.195.135 (talk) 00:12, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elvis Christmas Record? 

message: I am mighty confused as to why Trapp Family Singers redirects to here and does not have its own article.  The individual von Trapp children all have their own pages, much of which is the same general family history, as do Maria's books, the Trapp family charitable organization, the Trapp resort, and the Trapp grandchildren's singing group.  What gives?
72.231.10.237 (talk) 02:59, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Now done (sort of), only 7 years later... see Trapp Family - presently just a stub, but it can grow from there. Regards - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 08:57, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trapp Family Singers article? 

message: Rosmary was 11 in 1940, so she was born in 1929. 
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89MT-P39V?i=6&wc=QZX5-XSG%3A790227701%2C791830401%2C803766101%2C953811901%3Fcc%3D2000219&cc=2000219
"In the end, Rosmarie suffered much more than her naughty sister, having a "nervous breakdown" shortly after her father died in 1947. Rosmarie was eighteen, and overwhelmed with anxiety."
http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.co.at/2013/12/the-real-maria-von-trapp.html
http://flavorwire.com/428078/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-sound-of-music-and-the-real-life-maria-von-trapp/view-all/
--89.144.198.62 (talk) 21:06, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: New source

message: Previously the registry wouldn't show 1928 or 1929 (only earlier) but now it does clearly show February 8, 1929.  http://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/salzburg/salzburg-aigen/TFB10/?pg=315 --CSvBibra (talk) 21:48, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that it is an index, not the registration of a birth. It appears to show that a birth was registered in 1929 without giving a date of birth. -RAN (talk) 02:07, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be an index but it does state a date of February 8, 1929 (8.II 1929)--CSvBibra (talk) 19:27, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The date may be the date of baptism, not the date of birth.Hansel von Schnitzel (talk) 05:01, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: That seems to settle it - 1929

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is no evidence in the Bonn Bundesarchiv that the von Trapp house was requisitioned for Himmler or that he even visited it. His family had a small estate in Bavaria, not far to the north. Moreover, the von Trapp house was most definitely not some final HQ or redoubt towards the end of the war. Himmler, upon leaving Berlin in April 1945, headed for Hohenlychen. Not Austria which the Allies were over-running. Also, Georg von Trapp was not called up to the Kriegsmarine at the age of almost 60. It is a bizarre story. It seems more probable that the family were in financial difficulties and decided good money could be made singing in the USA. The rest is a fairy story. 86.184.37.43 (talk) 15:15, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: And then, after the war, deciding to piggyback the plight of those who suffered actual persecution, when they did not.Hansel von Schnitzel (talk) 05:04, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Evidences

message: Maria can be seen briefly in 'The Sound of Music' as an extra, walking under a church in the city centre. I think this is a curiosity, worth including somewhere. Valetude (talk) 11:35, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Her appearance in the film 

message: Should there be a note about her being called a baroness? From the article on her husband, Georg von Trapp, there is a note that he was never actually a baron, so Maria should not be a baroness. Natg 19 (talk) 17:07, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, I totally agree. Even if some notable papers call her a Baroness, she can not have been a baroness, if only for the simple reason that Austria abolished nobility in 1919. Ziko (talk) 13:35, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baroness? 

message: When I put in information on my recent book "Notes on the Trapp Family in Austria - From Maria's grandparents to summer 1939" (Norderstedt: BoD, 2023) on this discussion page in May 2023, it was immediately removed. Now I see that someone has added quite a lot of (mostly correct) information on Maria's birth and her paternal family in the text, referenced to church registers. (Isn't that WP:OR?) However, all these sources have been introduced and analyzed in my book last year, and I have good reason to believe that they were lifted from it. Yet my book is not mentioned.
Frederick S. Litten 2003:EC:9725:6043:4528:560E:3FF0:7A1D (talk) 12:48, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maria's early life