Talk:Cattle mutilation

message: * Added new section on horse ripping (30th August 2006)
* Added new subsection differentiating between cattle mutilations and horse ripping (30th August 2006)
* Re-worked the section on common critisms of the natural causes principle for cattle mutillations in order to give it more weight (30th August 2006)
* Added small passage on muti killings under the heading of human mutilations (31st August 2006)
* split deviants and cult activity into two seperate sections and expended both (31st August 2006)
* Removed the 10,000 (1990s?) mutilations figure from a paranormal website and replaced it with an perfectblue 08:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Work Done

message: Suggestion: Because of personal experience, I take offense to the repeated use of the word "allegedly" in this article.
While there is no doubt the mutilations occurred, it is only the origin of mutilation that is or should be called into
question; ie allegedly the gov't or allegedly flying saucers etc.  I swear that I personally tended an animal in fine 
health one day in the summer of '77 and was awoken that night by the dog's barking, went outside and saw a helicopter lift off from
the immediately vicinty of where the animal victim was later discovered, went outside, everything seemed calm, whatever had happened,
had already happened, returned to bed and hustled out to the pasture at the first light of dawn. I saw sled tracks on the creek bank and
blow space where the helicopter had obviously landed. I saw a scorched/burnt pattern down the bank in the flat area (that I have seen
since on the back bottom circle of the airplane that the rocket carried to the space station) which at the time I could not identify.
A pig, specifically, a 5-6 yr old sow lay in the center of her solitiary pen so deeply imbedded in the ground that much of the animal
was unidentifiable and had obviously been dropped from a great height. I don't know who was responsible. I don't know why it was done. I only
know that it DID happen. So I don't care for the word "allegedly" in terms of whether these mutilations occurred or not.
They did occur. I know they did. In our case, the sheriff and vet came out. They told me mine was just one of several similar mutilations
taking place in northern Colorado. I later learned it was taking place all over the western United States. Today I ask myself what significant
changes occurred in livestock since the 70s? Several answers, I'm sure, but I can think of only one major thing.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.126.185 (talk) 19:15, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Work to be Done

message: Go to Wikipedia:Paranormal Watchers for more information. Martial Law 00:56, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Invite

message: I have replaced the cult section on the live site with the version that has been in development in the sandbox since Sunday the 10th of September.
Users were earlier made aware of the existance of this draft  in order to miaintain the community spirit of Wikipedia, but no coments, critisisms or requests for change were made. From this it can be presumed that the draft was satisfactory so it has been posted.
perfectblue 13:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cults 

message: As per my earlier comments, unilateral action to delete significantly sized sections of the page should be avoided and changes of magnitude should be discussed first.
If large sections are removed, users should take care to edit the remaining sections so that they make sence without the missing sections. This includes the deletion of superflious headings, and the alteration of passages that reference deleted sections.
perfectblue 13:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unilateral action 

message: What would constitute an exceptable way to say:-
"This is what people believe about X, but it may be based on myth and perception rather than fact"
Without prejudicing or pre judging what it is that the people believe?
perfectblue 10:24, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Word Usage

message: Is the following link considered usable under WP:V and WP:RS for small unimportant items (quotes etc)?
http://www.skepticfiles.org/ufo1/leardanw.htm
perfectblue 12:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say no. Itsmejudith 14:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usable 

message: Please please please please please, if you're making significant changes to the article, or if you're making changes to more than one section, make them all at once in one edit. Use an external text editor if you like -- something like NotePad or RoughDraft (which is what I use) is ideal for this use. The history page for this article is just frightening with so many consecutive edits; there's no reason for a single user to have consecutive edits in an article that multiple people are working on. Thanks. - Che Nuevara 15:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  good editing practices 

message: I'd like to knock the POV thing on the head soon so that the tag at the top of the page can be downgraded. I've already changed the history section to use less direct langauge and removed most of the text about Larson as requested. If anybody else has any POV issues, could they please raise them here so that we can progress this page up a knotch.
In the interest of expediance, it would be helpful if people could individually identify offending  sentences or paragraph rather than than just issuing a generic "Section X is POV", as that isn't particularly helpful.
perfectblue 07:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: With this edit you removed a bunch of citations with a edit summery that had nothing to do with explaining the removal.  Can you please explain why you thought it would be good to remove citations? ---J.S (t|c) 19:35, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Overuse. The citation was not required for each individual paragraph. Once was enough.
perfectblue 07:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perfect blue 

message: I added two edits to the section on an ET/HIV connection to cattle mutilation.  First, I can find no evidence that Philip S Duke is a USC trained pathologist other than the author's personal assertions.  Secondly, Mr. Duke's claim that cattle are being used as HIV incubators flys against accepted medical practice.  (Something his "USC Pathology" training should have detected.)  I have cited an article from the American Society of Microbiology as reference.
Djma12 20:54, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking that was odd... especially since cows aren't our closest cousins in the animal kingdom. ---J.S (t|c) 18:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

text: This just popped on tv, if it helps anyone. --InShaneee 16:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I edited the last paragraph of "Specimen gathering for disease research" to make it more in line with current knowledge, as seen in the links added to the text.  Deep Atlantic Blue (talk) 21:00, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  UFO Connection 

message: This group is cited for several claims. However, I've never heard of them before; they don't sound like a reliable source. Moreover, the link to their webpage doesn't work. So, are they a reliable source? If so, why? And why doesn't their site work? Titanium Dragon 08:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They are not a reliable source, I'll remove them. Jefffire 14:19, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oregon UFO Watch 

message: Experiments have also been conducted to compare the different reactions of surgically cut hide/flesh and predated hide/flesh to natural exposure.[13] They demonstrated pronounced differences between surgical cut and non surgical cuts over time. This article does not address tearing due to bloating.
This paragraph is a mess and needs to be fixed. Is it saying this article (as in, this Wikipedia article) is not adressing this? If not, why not? It is what actually causes it, and RS's now generally concur on this - natural decomposition. If its referring to the related article, then it just needs to be excised. Titanium Dragon 09:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This article does not address tearing due to bloating

message: I've removed the section about the first modern mutilation. Seeing as it was sourced entirely from "UFO’s? Yes! Where the Condon Committee Went Wrong" (I'm sure we can agree that's not a reliable source), it cannot be regarded as factually sound. Jefffire 14:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed section 

message: Why is it that people using weapons cannot be stated ? See the Kelly-Hopkinsville UFO Incident as a example of people shooting at aliens. Also in several incidents of this nature, the farmers, ranchers will arm themselves to shoot at aliens, "black helicopters", and at any ass who calls them a liar. 65.163.113.170 (talk) 23:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: One rancher I'm aware of said that he lost 6 head of pregnant cattle and that he will shoot any ass who says he is lying. 65.163.113.170 (talk) 23:31, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have citations for weapon use? The rancher in question is probably deluded though. Jefffire (talk) 08:38, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it sounds reasonable, and you might even be able to find reliable sources for it- but what does it add to the reader's understanding of the cattle mutilation phenomenon to learn that victims of it will respond to skepticism with homicidal hostility? Even if true, I don't see what it adds to the article. -Toptomcat (talk) 20:07, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: WEAPONS USE

message: UFO Files' counter-alien UFO explanation episode interviewed a farmer who discovered the source of the mutilations that drove his ranch bankrupt. He would find freshly cattle that had had their eyes, utters, reproductive organs, tung, and lips removed. He had the cattle moved to an area where he could monitor their decomposition. He found that bones of the animals were broken, meaning they where dropped from some distance. He monitored the skies and found the a pair of twin lights, which he video taped. The lights always signified a mutilation. When the lights where close enough he heard a loud noise described as pulsing humming and whirling sound. The lights began to come every night. The rancher decided to bring his cattle in close to ranch house on a particularly dark and windy night. The lights came in close to the ranch house. When a large gust of wind came, 'The lights' activated the rest of the lights on its hull. It was a very large black helicopter. The twin lights where from the cockpit of the helicopter. A mounted flood light revealed a man tying up a cow with steal cables mounted to the helicopter. The Rancher fired a shot in the air and copter released all but one of the cables, which the man clambered into the copter with. The helicopter flew away into the night and never returned. The Rancher found that the cables had claps at both ends, one to mount to copter the other more claw like end was attached to the cow.--GMWhilhuffTarkin (talk) 22:57, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Case with confirmed source

message: It would be very interesting to know what kind of drugs were used -T.R. 87.59.76.100 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 18:19, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  What kind of anticoagulants? 

message: In my opinion, the spelling mistakes on simple words such as "exibit" and "aereal" (both of which I corrected) implies that this was definitely not a well-written or possibly well-cited article. Also, there is a lot of awkward wording. Not only the awkward wording, but the redundancy shown unnecessarily elongates the article. This should be marked for slight clean-up. 
Jaundiced Zippo (talk) 20:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misc. 

message: The article seems to be a poor representation of the phenomena.  For one, the article is too broad in scope, where the phenomena of Cattle Mutilations is far narrower in boundaries than the article implies.
I also object to the use of the words Cryptids and Cults for being a possible explanation.  In researching the phenomena there has never been any substantial theory of an unknown animal responsible for the mutilations.  Intead, this belief is rather a confusion between reports of Chupacabras and Cattle Mutilations on behalf of the author.  With regards to the use of Cults, I object because it seems to be a watered-down version of a well substantiated theory behind Cattle Mutilations, mainly that of the Satanists Hypothesis.  The key here is that Cults is too broad a term. The accusations were specific to Satanism.
Finally, let's not forget that Cattle Mutilations is primarily a phenomena of the United States. There may be animal mutilations in other other countries, but unless such falls under the same moduc operandi as Cattle Mutilations, they should not be included, hence the Horse Ripper should be removed fron the article. BoyintheMachine (talk) 15:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is completely justifiable to split the article into conventional and unconventional explanations.  Conventional being explanations that are known to have occurred before and unconventional explanations being ones that are not based on evidence but simply state its a mystery and therefore must be ufos or black helicopters from the government.  There is no reason to currently think that these are in any way valid explanations because they rely on an imaginative person who cites a lack of evidence as proof of his/her hypothesis.  Which should then be rigorously tested to see if it could be a theory or not.  Of course its not tested and laymen use buzz words like mysterious to confuse less educated readers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:B:A3C0:7:CCAC:60E1:1431:DA6D (talk) 02:10, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requesting Article Be Scrapped And New One Written 

message: Someone, apparently years ago, put a merge tag on this article to merge it with the Horse-ripping article.  I don't think these phenomena are anything like the same thing, based on the articles.  The consensus in the talk pages looks like it was not to merge, but the last discussion of merging I see on this talk page is from 2006.  The merge tag was removed from the horse article in 2008, according to that article's talk page.  Since there doesn't seem to be any recent discussion on this and it seems to me that the consensus was not to merge, I am going to be bold and remove the tag.  If someone disagrees, they can put it back and this will be a place where more discussion can be had.  Rifter0x0000 (talk) 01:39, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Tag with Horse Ripping 

message: Why is there no mention on this page of Linda Moulton Howe's documentary on this subject, 'A Strange Harvest'?
87.194.22.23 (talk) 22:26, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mention of documentary film 

message: Just a detail: Why is the expression "anal coring" used in the introduction to this article? There is no entry for "anal coring" in Wikipedia, and if you google it, the only pages that turn up are references to the cattle mutilation discussion. On the other hand, you can google "surgical coring" and find plenty of medical references and even descriptions of the apparatus used.
My point is, first, that the expression "anal coring" is not self-explanatory and may not even be a term that is used medically, and should for that reason be avoided in this text. Even "surgical coring" is perhaps too technical a term. If it is used, perhaps an article on "surgical coring" should be made in Wikipedia.
Secondly, most sources on the net that mention "anal coring" that I have been able to find are verbatim quotes from this Wikipedia article, and most of those that are not verbating quotes seem to refer to the article indirectly. As in the article, no explanation (or at least no scientific explanation) of the term is offered in these sources. Thus, the Wikipedia article is probably the source of a rather substantial body of unclear / unexplained information spread all over the net. This does not seem to me to be a desirable situation.
Filursiax (talk) 10:51, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anal coring 

message: I have looked at several of the sources referenced in this article and a few of them don't exist.  Several more are about UFO's and do not mention any connection to cattle mutilations but deal specifically whether UFO's could be alien spacecraft or not.  Furthermore discrediting is that the authors who do not disclose what makes them 'experts' are actually qualified in the fields of psychology and sociology which are the poorest examples of accepted science there is.  Many people consider a lot of what they do pseudoscience for several reasons I don't want to get into but I don't see how these can be used as sources for cattle mutilations.  It just doesn't make any sense except whoever wrote a lot of this article had no real evidence for what they believe but don't want to put it out there that they just believe these things because they want it to be true so will use any means necessary, including deception, to convince people that there beliefs are true.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:B:A3C0:7:293A:2CD9:9471:59E7 (talk) 01:38, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources used 

message: We must observe some kind of consistency when editing, else it becomes a cacophony.  In this article under history:
# "Charles Fort collected many accounts of cattle mutilations that occurred in England in the late 19th and early 20th centuries."
# "Reports of mutilated cattle first surfaced in the United States in the early 1960s" 
# "The first allegedly strange death of livestock comes from near Alamosa, Colorado, in 1967."
OK, maybe it means to say, "The first reports in the United States of mutilated cattle surfaced in the early 1960s."  Then it does not conflict with #1.  But it still conflicts with #3.Slade Farney (talk) 00:43, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictory statements juxtaposed 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The first two examples are about horses. May I suggest that they be deleted? Pete unseth (talk) 15:09, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: What's wrong with horses? --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:49, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much emphasis on horses 

message: I don't follow this section.  It seems like some (intervening) information is missing or was deleted?
=== The "Snippy" horse mutilation ===
Animal mutilation was relatively unknown until 1967, when the Pueblo Chieftain published a story about a horse called "Snippy"  that was mysteriously killed and mutilated in Alamosa, Colorado. 
On September 9, 1967, Agnes King and her son Harry reportedly found the dead body of their three-year-old horse. The horse's head and neck had been skinned and defleshed, and the body displayed cuts that, to King, looked very precise. No blood was at the scene, according to Harry, and a strong medicinal odor was in the air.   
The story was republished by the wider press and distributed nationwide; this case was the first to feature speculation that extraterrestrial beings and unidentified flying objects were associated with mutilation.  A subsequent investigation by Wadsworth Ayer for the Condon Committee concluded that "There was no evidence to support the assertion that the horse's death was associated in any way to abnormal causes".
When the Lewises phoned Alamosa County Sheriff Ben Phillips, he told them that the death was probably due to "a lightning strike" and never bothered to visit the site. Early press coverage of the case misnamed Lady as Snippy. Snippy was Lady's sire and belonged to Nellie's husband, Berle Lewis. Later press coverage mentions that the horse had been shot "in the rump". However, two students from Alamosa State College confessed to sneaking out into the pasture and shooting the horse several weeks after the case was publicized.
:: In the RED section ... Who are the Lewises?  They have not been previously mentioned.   Who is Nellie and her husband, Berle Lewis?  They have not been previously mentioned.
Thanks.    32.209.55.38 (talk) 02:37, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  I don't follow this section. 

message: Animal mutilation was relatively unknown until 1967, when the Pueblo Chieftain published a story about a horse called "Snippy"  that was mysteriously killed and mutilated in Alamosa, Colorado. 
On September 9, 1967, Agnes King and her son Harry reportedly found the dead body of their three-year-old horse. The horse's head and neck had been skinned and defleshed, and the body displayed cuts that, to King, looked very precise. No blood was at the scene, according to Harry, and a strong medicinal odor was in the air.   
The story was republished by the wider press and distributed nationwide; this case was the first to feature speculation that extraterrestrial beings and unidentified flying objects were associated with mutilation.  A subsequent investigation by Wadsworth Ayer for the Condon Committee concluded that "There was no evidence to support the assertion that the horse's death was associated in any way to abnormal causes".
When the Lewises phoned Alamosa County Sheriff Ben Phillips, he told them that the death was probably due to "a lightning strike" and never bothered to visit the site. Early press coverage of the case misnamed Lady as Snippy. Snippy was Lady's sire and belonged to Nellie's husband, Berle Lewis. Later press coverage mentions that the horse had been shot "in the rump". However, two students from Alamosa State College confessed to sneaking out into the pasture and shooting the horse several weeks after the case was publicized.
:: In the RED section ... Who are the Lewises?  They have not been previously mentioned.   Who is Nellie and her husband, Berle Lewis?  They have not been previously mentioned.
Thanks.    32.209.55.38 (talk) 02:37, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Snippy" horse mutilation 

message: This article contains the phrase "high strange" again and again as if that's a phrase that's both apparent, or real in any way. It's a pseudoscience word and should be removed or properly contextualized with quotes. 97.101.53.250 (talk) 16:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: purged the term from the article. Feoffer (talk) 02:26, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  High strange 

message: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqWFaRJ_Ts0&t=70s Foerdi (talk) 06:31, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a reliable source. --Hob Gadling (talk) 06:44, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Linda Moulton Howe|LMH]] comments on the recent and old cattle mutilations 

message: Biochemist Colm Kelleher,[47] who has investigated several purported mutilations first-hand... 
The link on this person's name goes to a bank.
::No objection so I removed the link while keeping cite [47]. 57.135.233.22 (talk) 10:21, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colm Kelleher 

message: The article states: "Chlorpromazine (Thorazine), was used to tranquilize" Chlorpromazine is not typically used as a sedative, it is a typical antipsychotic. Veterinarians use it as an antiemetic. Dimadick (talk) 11:02, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I clipped the news article in question, so readers can directly verify that Valdez did claim it was used to tranquilize the animals.   I'm just getting my bearings on this whole topic, but it looks like Chlorpromazine (Thorazine) has in fact been used to tranquilize wild game. Feoffer (talk) 02:11, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chlorpromazine 

message: * "The mutilation killings began back in 1970 in Lyon County"  cited in O'Brien to The [Brainard Daily Dispatch, Brainard, MI,12-27-74] but not in source unless I'm missing it
* Newsweek Mauraders story?  when  
Feoffer (talk) 08:54, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Finding sources