Talk:Catholic Church in Ireland

message: I've removed the template "20th century persecutions of the Catholic Church" as it doesn't mntion any Irish Catholic persecutees.86.42.206.248 (talk) 12:31, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of template

message: "Alongside the church itself, many Irish folk traditions persisted for centuries as a part of the church's culture. Holy relics are thought to possess curative or magical powers, colourful "patterns" (processions) in honour of local saints persisted into the 1800s, and in 1985 thousands gathered to pray during the Moving statues phenomenon. Mariolatry is a central element, focused on the shrine at Knock, where the Virgin Mary appeared in 1879. Recent feasts and cults such as the Immaculate Conception of Mary (1854) and the Sacred Heart of Jesus (1856), and the concepts of martyrology are still important elements. Respect for mortification of the flesh has led on to the veneration of Matt Talbot and Padre Pio, and claims of miracles are investigated."
Any suggestions / additions? Many cultural elements are associated with the church that non-Irish people would not know about.86.42.218.67 (talk) 13:41, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's important to have such a section for sociologists and non-Christian readers of wikipedia. It is just about a big enough subject for its own article some day.Red Hurley (talk) 11:18, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Popular traditions section

message: I consider that User:Krzyzowiec is a bit POV himself, looking at his own page. Maybe best to stick to Polish wikipedia and all its "left-liberal" admins. Who would like me to haul in the numerous Irish refs from the sex abuse article?Red Hurley (talk) 12:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: POV sections Oct 2008

message: I've edited the opening paragraph of this article (mostly because grammatically it had problems), but I'm not even comfortable that it is as it should be. The CIA factbook offered as a source says 87.4% for the Republic and doesn't say anything about 'infant baptism,' so I don't know if that's not actually the source that's meant or if the # is simply wrong. I can't find the source for the NI percentage, so I wonder if it is correct or specifically tied to the claim of 'infant baptism.' I also removed the total island population from the sentence because the percentages were for the individual jurisdictions, rendering the island pop. unhelpful. Nuclare (talk) 04:21, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Infant baptism" is common in Christian churches. It means that people are affiliated with a church without having a choice in the matter, and by the time they are old enough to decide the good / bad points of their religion they usually remain with it, and in turn pass it on to their children. This has an effect on subsequent numbers in all churches. As for percentages today here or there, I can't say.Red Hurley (talk) 11:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening Paragraph

message: OK, I've brought back a lot of the history section that I deleted last night but after some significant further editing to trim it down.  It's still too long but the problem isn't so much extraneous detail any more as it is the problem of separating the history of the Roman Catholic church in Ireland from the history of Roman Catholics in Ireland.  Much of the history section deals with political, economic and military history which belongs in History of Ireland instead of in this article or in History of Roman Catholicism in Ireland.  The problem, of course, is that the church has been involved in many of the interactions between Catholic Ireland and Protestant England.  I have cut out as much as I could in the first pass but more trimming is necessary. --Richard (talk) 16:53, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm editing it down a lot more. So the Vikings arrived? They arrived all over Europe and what religion was where was irrelevant as far as they were concerned. When I learnt history in national School the vikings were the very worst thing but now we know that they started towns and improved trade links and were at peace most of the time. Churches were raided by the Vikings, the Church wrote the history books anti-the Vikings, unsurprisingly. The 1913 encyclopedia is rubbish, mostly, but interesting to see what rubbish was around when. This is a world encyclopedia so we Irish have to adopt a wide angle lens on our own history - we are famous for being too insular.Red Hurley (talk) 22:12, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Any disagreeing will see that there were no links (or mentions) of/to: Regnans in Excelsis]], The Graces(Ireland), the Test Act, the Declaration of Breda, a link to JKL and so on. Roman Catholicism as a separate Irish cultural element really started in the 1530s but before 1570 or 1603 other outcomes might have arisen. The more of politics that is/are included, the less on religion. Lord "Gormanstone"? - I don't think so. "Loss of majority in parliament in 1613" - not in the Lords until 1650; loss etc. in the Commons most of the time was the reality, not "parliament". It would have had a C- mark from any inter cert examiner. Shocking, isn't it, that a 1913 book could be wrong. Can we keep this page to Ireland post-1922?Red Hurley (talk) 22:29, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: I have removed 99% of the history section for being overly long and imperfectly encyclopedic.Red Hurley (talk) 20:51, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit Dec 2009

message: I dispute the neutrality of this article. It does not discuss the reduction of Catholicism in Ireland. See example sources below
* 
* 
* 
--Senra (talk) 18:51, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If you hav' reliable sources (which you do) then be bold and put it in yourself. ~Asarlaí 19:12, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: Hi, I'm curious as to what happened to land confiscated by the Anglican Church during the Reformation after disestablishment or after independence. Did the Roman Catholic Church get any buildings or land back? Did they purchase it from the Church of Ireland? It seems the cathedrals in Dublin are shared,  is that common? So curious! Arthurian Legend (talk) 16:44, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Bless your innocence. No Arthur - what you have you hold. The cathedrals in Dublin city remain in the hands of the CoI. The RC church has only a pro-cathedral. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:51, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

text: I think it's naive and wrong to say that the Anglicans confiscated anything in the 1530s. The head of the church had changed at the top, and the church stayed the same, but with new dogma. The monasteries were confiscated and sold, but they were technically separate from the diocesan church. Church historians are able to differentiate diocesan from monastic.78.16.2.110 (talk) 12:50, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: For Catholics, the "head of the church ... at the top" never changed; the Pope remained the Pope. For those who broke with the head, there was a change. As these people also had the might of the State at their disposal, that meant that they were able to appropriate for their own use those assets that were previously held by those bishops that chose to remain in communion with the Pope. So there were parallel successions in most dioceses, but only one side had the services of the State's armed forces - those who adhered to the State established church. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:11, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Churches and church land after disestablishment or independence? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Catholic Church in Ireland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090507191833/http://www.catholicbishops.ie/archdioceses-and-dioceses/view-list to http://www.catholicbishops.ie/archdioceses-and-dioceses/view-list
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:57, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The source referenced  (Brady, p193) does not support the statement in the section 'Counter-Reformation and suppression' - 'all but two of the bishops of the Church in Ireland followed the decision (to break away from the Papacy)' - it states the opposite. Clivemacd (talk) 12:42, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you provide a more extensive quotation please? I don't have the source to hand. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:54, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  From p193 of Brady - 'The claims to the Irish succession, which the present Roman Catholic Episcopate possesses, require a brief notice. At the accession of Elizabeth, the Marian bishops were, beyond dispute, the true bishops of the Church in Ireland, which was then thoroughly Roman Catholic in its clergy and people. Of the twenty-six bishops alive in 1558, twenty-five were natives of Ireland, and continued Roman Catholics.' Clivemacd (talk) 13:17, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. My understanding is that the native bishops were "encouraged" to not attend parliament when the vote was going through. Hence 100% compliance (of the couple that turned up and were amenable to the Crown's position). Any other sources confirm this? Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:38, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been unable to find a better source. For now I've added a 'not in citation given' tag to the article with a link to this discussion Clivemacd (talk) 17:10, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Added better citation.Clivemacd (talk) 19:40, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allegiance of Bishops in 1558 

message: There is currently an RfC at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Catholic Church)#RfC: should this page be made a naming convention that may be of interest. Chicbyaccident (talk) 09:59, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catholic Church naming conventions RfC 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Catholic Church in Ireland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110122140242/http://www.earlychristianireland.org/index.html to http://www.earlychristianireland.org/index.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:48, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: There should be a qualification in the naming to include the phrase ‘Roman Catholic’. The Roman Catholic Church is only one of several groups that formally claim to be the Catholic Church (universal Church founded by Jesus) in Ireland- another being the Church of Ireland. This is neutral language, accepted by the Roman Catholic Church as a self-descriptor in several ecumenical contexts (Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission). The only people who would disagree are those making a polemical truth claim (‘we are *the* Catholic Church, and you are not’) or Irish people unfamiliar with the term. LODU70 (talk) 18:21, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for bringing this up.  The topic has been discussed at global and other levels in the encyclopedia many times. The Catholic Church (comprising the Latin Rite Church and 23 Eastern Rite Churches, all in communion with the Pope in Rome) is commonly known as such, albeit also as the RCC.  The many other churches which describe themselves as "catholic" (small "c") are mostly not so named - the Church of Ireland, for example, is just the "Church of Ireland", not the "Catholic Church of Ireland" (there are notable exceptions among the old churches, of course).  See Talk:Catholic Church and the many past debates in the archives of that and other relevant articles. SeoR (talk) 21:02, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I feel the “small ‘c’” vs “Big ‘C’” distinction is a bit contrived. The Church of Ireland claims to be an unqualified part of the Catholic Church; possessing the fullness of the Catholic faith. A corollary of that is that it’s The Catholic Church in Ireland also. If Wikipedia just consists of common parlance, it’s subjecting truth claims and language to a democratic vote that Roman Catholics will always win by dint of numbers. LODU70 (talk) 22:31, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: The Founder heading should be amended or removed to show the RCC only claims continuity with Patrick’s Church. The RCC is a discontinuous institution in Ireland, whose Irish line is dubious. This is in parallel to the Church of Ireland page, for the sake of a uniform editorial policy. LODU70 (talk) 10:43, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for bringing that up here also - but I suggest that this is taken as notice of the debate on the Talk:Church of Ireland page, and a single outcome devised for all relevant articles.  For myself, I do not see the logic for the claim that the line of the (Roman) Catholic Church is discontinuous - it seems to me that it proceeds in a clear line from St Patrick to the present, with the vast majority of faithful and clergy, and a significant majority of higher clerics also, adhering throughout the period when the established churches were formed.  But I'd love to see more (informed) opinions in the mix.  And, sorry, to save time and repetition, account must be taken of the prior debates over related matters, such as referred to in the previous section. SeoR (talk) 17:29, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Founder