Talk:Les Demoiselles d'Avignon

message: Can someone give a translation of the title? I can guess, but then, I don't know French. Identity0 09:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it just means "the women of Avignon" --Astrokey44 09:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  La Demoiselle is an unmarried woman, so yes at that time it usually meant young woman as older women would be married. The Avignon mentioned in the title doesn't refer to the town in France but rather to a street in Barcelona (the city where Picasso lived for a while), on which a large brothel was situated.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.61.18.11 (talk) 11:32, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Title?

message: :Image:Chicks-from-avignon.jpg needs re-tagging, but it's still available should anyone wants to use it.  It has cuter filename, and shows a different (better, IMHO) color contrast than :Image:Les Demoiselles d'Avignon.jpg. -- PFHLai 00:57, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  an alternate image 

message: ..suggesting the work as a meditation on the danger of sex, the, to a phrase of Rosalind Krauss's invention, "trauma of the gaze", and the threat of violence inherent in the scene and sexual relations at large.
I would correct it, but I'm not even sure what the transition is supposed to be. 130.18.55.228 21:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  nonsense text 

message: In  it is claimed that Les Demoiselles d'Avignon was in part a reaction to Henri Matisse's Le Bonheur de Vivre and The Blue Nude. This claim comes from Matisse's biographer, but I'm not sure whether mainstream art historians would agree. AxelBoldt 22:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In his 1992 essay Reflections on Matisse Hilton Kramer makes the case persuasively. - Modernist 14:44, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I'll add it. AxelBoldt 03:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reaction to Matisse? 

message: We probably should add a Description section; which will be interesting...and eventually a Legacy section..Modernist (talk) 23:19, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Tied up, Modernist, I want to write these sections up together, but I need time! Ceoil (talk) 00:02, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The background section needs a succinct summary of where Picasso's style had got to when he began work on DdA. Johnbod (talk) 18:44, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea Johnbod I like the idea of a succinct style section..I think there also might be a section on Gauguin and primitivism in background too. I suspect that Picasso through Vollard  knew a great deal about Gauguin's work..I still want to finish stuff about Cubism and Cezanne...Modernist (talk) 19:00, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Sections

message: Good to see Oviri...things begin to take shape..Modernist (talk) 22:18, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Aye aye, Capt'n. Ceoil (talk) 22:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Oviri

message: I linked this to Iberian Pre-Romanesque art and architecture, but upon consideration its not the same thing at all. In fact, we really don't have an article that deals with those reliefs. After looking at :es:Arte en España (so much more comprehensive than our Spanish art!) I see that the Spanish wikipedia has several specialized articles like: :es:Escultura ibérica and :es:Arte ibérico I might try my hand at translating one or both of those, if I have the time... Lithoderm 17:24, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again, good find. I agree those are weak links...Modernist (talk) 17:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: ...and Iberian sculpture is up... Lithoderm 03:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Nice job...Modernist (talk) 03:53, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Iberian Pre-Roman Sculpture

message: A section on the studies and the preparation, changes and creation of Demoiselles is needed. At first Picasso had included a couple of male visitors to the brothel in his studies, and then they were removed; he made multiple studies using Fernande and other women as models. The squatting woman as Fernande; the face changes; the focus on sex and a brothel. Wm Rubin talks about fear of syphillis and gonorhhea as a motivating factor...Modernist (talk) 11:28, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 700 Studies

message: This photo of Five Suicide Girls looks like a piece of shit, at least in the reproduction, what is this nonsense doing here?--Radh (talk) 19:01, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, removed. Ceoil (talk) 19:08, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spam? 

message: * Moved by Coldcreation from User talk:Coldcreation. This is where the discussion belongs. Ceoil (talk) 19:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  One more point: These were not racist implications, if anything, they were racial implications. Coldcreation (talk) 20:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racist Implications 

message: If you are reading this, I guess you are interested in improving this article. I reviewed it for GA status and found that it would easily have passed with a little attention from a willing editor. If that's now you, I'd encourage you to read the GA2 comments and see if you can resolve them – it shouldn't be difficult. The article ought then to pass GA without difficulty; if I'm still around, feel free to ping me. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:52, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  To an editor a thousand years hence 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: At 06:45, 10 December 2016‎, user:MikeTwigs added the Feminist interpretation section to this article, beginning with speculation from an "anonymous source" suggesting that "in 1907 Picasso had contracted VD and painted the Demoiselles to vent his rage against women". The rest of the text is based on more speculation of sexism and other unsubstantiated claims. The text is now removed. In my edit summary I wrote: Belongs in a separate article about feminism. Upon further reflection, this would be a disservice to readers interested in learning about Picasso's life and work. Note, the current Interpretation section deals with the topic (see Leo Steinberg) satisfactorily. Coldcreation (talk) 08:01, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feminist interpretation 

message: Suzanne Blier, in the introduction to Picasso's Demoiselles, the Untold Origins of a Modern Masterpiece, writes: "Most scholars today see Pablo Picasso's iconic painting Les Demoiselles d'Avignon' as a work about five prostitutes …. While it is important not to limit the work to  a simple brothel scene, … what I am arguing here is for a richer, broader way to look at this canvas (not only about sex acts) that is not a simple displacement of one meaning (or reading) for a different one." Later she writes that the painting's first title (Mon Bordel) may have been a play on words ("bordel" having a second meaning, "mess"): "The early title Mon Bordel emphasizes the 'mess' or 'complex situation' that Picasso was grappling with, as much as, if not more than, a traditional bordello." (p. 23) So the traditional reading is not rejected even as a broader interpretation is proposed. I think "portrays five nude female prostitutes" is fine; "has been said to portray five nude female prostitutes" suggests that this is not the consensus interpretation. Ewulp (talk) 11:49, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see nothing wrong with "portrays five nude female prostitutes". This is the consensus of multiple RS. To change it because of one recent author's opinion is WP:UNDUE. --John B123 (talk) 18:34, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

text: *In my opinion "portrays five nude female prostitutes", is correct and remains correct...Modernist (talk) 02:32, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: After all, in addition to the street in Barcelona after which the painting was named being known for it's brothels, Picasso himself referred to Les Demoiselles (in 1916) as his Brothel painting, calling it Le Bordel d'Avignon (and Le Bordel Philosophique). Coldcreation (talk) 07:50, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

text: You are mistaken. Bordel in French has several meanings, one which is a brothel. See the French Wikipedia redirect for example, and sources within: Un lupanar, maison close, ou bordel, est un établissement offrant le service de prostituées. See too fr.wiktionary Bordel: (Populaire) (Sexualité) Établissement où se pratique la prostitution. Coldcreation (talk) 17:47, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

text: You might also want to take a look at this source: Anne Baldassari (directrice du musée national Picasso, Paris), Demoiselles d'Avignon, Pablo Picasso, Recueil des Commémorations nationales 2007, France Archives, Portail National des Archives: André Salmon, qui en 1912 en avait mentionné pour la première fois l'existence sous l'appellation Le Bordel philosophique, donna à la toile ce nom de Demoiselles d'Avignon sous lequel elle est passée à l'histoire bien que Picasso ne l'ait jamais fait sien, rappelant que son nom d’origine était plus explicitement Le Bordel d'Avignon et se référait, par jeu, à la Carrer d'Avinyo, rue du vieux Barcelone où, dans sa jeunesse, il achetait ses couleurs.Coldcreation (talk) 18:00, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edit in lead