Talk:Cross of Saint Peter

message: I'd like to discuss a possible angle for the satanic connection of St Peter's cross. In the 16th/17th centuries there was a wave of protestantism across Europe. I can only really account from an angle of British history, but in Britain Roman Catholicism was outlawed.
Roman Catholicism was effectively pushed underground. Wealthy families built secret chapels in roof spaces or cellars (See the article on priest holes[]). These Roman Catholics who continued to practise would have had to have deceived others outside of their community, and they would have developed secret ways to recognise each other. Also they're bible and rites were in a language that could not be understood by the layman.
So we have:-
People who worship underground.
They meet in secret.
They use instruments of worship on an alter.
They hide the truth through deception of who they are and what they worship.
And the symbol of the accredited first pope (St Peter) is an inverted cross.
Looks to me like satanism and the inverted cross rose as an imprinted image through the propaganda of the protestant revolution.
Satan is already familiar to the people as an image of evil & the deceiver of man, and the inverted cross was familiar as a symbol of the Church of Rome. Blending these images together would have definitley produced the desired effect
This of course is merely conjecture on my part, but I leave these comments with part of a quote from John Adams made about the American revolution on the 13th of February 1818 []. 
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments of their duties and obligations
To me this speaks of why propaganda exists.
Stuzilla 23:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh, maybe. But the usage as a "symbol of Satanism" has caused much laughters and fun in my church. I think maybe this loony interpretation is some analogue to the idea of reciting Our Father backwards, which according to folklore should have an inverse magical effect. Except that Our Father is not a magic formula... ;-) It's a prayer! ... said: Rursus (bork²) 20:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think there should be a re-direct to this page for "Satanic Cross" because St. Peter holds no particular religious position in the Bible compared to Jesus, therefore the St. Peter's Cross can't be seen as any particular symbol for Christianity. 2nd, to hold people upside-down constitutes torture as a matter of fact, but I need reference for this (or else WP:Source ?)! Just this. Bye! 37.200.45.168 (talk) 10:48, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: 37.200.45.168 -- In traditional Christianity there are many many symbols of many many saints, and St. Peter is actually one of the most prominent among them (as one of the 12 apostles, and founder of the church in Rome).  See Saint symbolism or Italian Wikipedia article :it:Armoriale dei santi for probably more info than you want to know... AnonMoos (talk) 12:55, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Well, that or it's simply the fact that it's the most prominent universal Christian symbol, only inverted. Robrecht 18:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Satanic

message: The article was renamed to Petrine Cross because that is how the Vatican translates the name. This needs to be discussed. The rules about article names are it uses the name most commonly known in English. "Cross of St. Peter" or "Peter Cross" is how it is most commonly known. I understand the Vatican holds some authority for some people but the cross is not owned by the Vatican it is a cultural icon for Catholics and non-Catholics alike. We need to stick to the rules of Wikipedia. -- Stbalbach 20:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If consensus cannot be reached, Jimbo holds the ultimate sway here. ... said: Rursus (bork²) 20:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Cross of St. Peter or Petrine cross is the traditional name in traditional Christian symbolism.  The anti-Christian meaning is historically more recent. AnonMoos (talk) 23:10, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Article name

message: Any chance the depiction of this Catholic symbol as being Satanic could be connected to the Reformist view that the Pope was anti-Christ? Through the reformation and beyond many Catholic symbols became linked to Satanism for this purpose. For one example the bent Crucifix the Pope carries atop his Crozier has become tied to Satanism. -- 20:47, 18 September 2009‎ 86.41.153.203
===2014===
What is the origin of the bent cross? 174.4.162.2 (talk) 17:24, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what "bent" would mean in this context.  Certainly the basic Cross of St. Peter is not bent... AnonMoos (talk) 02:39, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Pope as anti-Christ

message: What is the origin of the bent cross? 174.4.162.2 (talk) 17:24, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what "bent" would mean in this context.  Certainly the basic Cross of St. Peter is not bent... AnonMoos (talk) 02:39, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: 2014

message: I'm Catholic and I remember seeing a symbol resembling an inverted Latin cross, but with a thin, curved line that starts at the bottom and kinda wraps itself slightly around the cross (kinda similar to the Methodist symbol). I've seen it a few times, and I don't know if it has to do with the popularity of the Cross of St. Peter as a Satanist symbol, which would lead to this modified version I'm talking about.--70.171.26.127 (talk) 17:55, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modified Petrine Cross? 

message: In the section Satanic and anti-Christian imagery there's the following parenthetical sentence:
(Interestingly, Jesus referred to Peter as a "Satan",  when he said to him "Get behind me, Satan!", in Mark 8:33; see also vade retro satana).
I assume this is an attempt to imply that Jesus/The Bible says that Peter was Satan, and therefore the inverted cross as a satanic symbol did not originate simply by inverting the most recognized Christian symbol.  Would I be right to think both parts of that would need a citation?  74.76.167.243 (talk) 21:44, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have an answer to your question, but it does bolster the theory presented (earlier on this Talk page) about Protestantism vs Catholic church. Not that I think the theory needs to be mentioned (or is necessarily correct), but the Peter - "get thee behind me Satan" connection should at least be mentioned.Jimhoward72 (talk) 19:34, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parenthetical observation 

message: Looking at the references cited in the article, I found that they are all links to websites that are more or less championing the "Catholicism is Satanism" viewpoint, and none of them are religious commentaries or definitions released by the Catholic Church (or any non-dissenting Christian religion) itself. That's not to say that the Catholic-supporting facts in the article are untrue, but for people who wish to know more about the Petrine Cross, shouldn't the references section lead to informative websites and not to hateful, misinforming ones?
I understand that it is legitimate to reference a website that expresses the controversy on a subject, but the sources used should be reliably informative and objective, e.g., a well-written news article, in contrast to the currently used sources. -- 00:30, 27 July 2011 LhikJovan
:The external links are more respectable, I guess... AnonMoos (talk) 08:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Issues with the References Section

message: Probably less artistically famous, but maybe clearer... AnonMoos (talk) 17:17, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Another depiction of the crucifixion of St. Peter

message: I had no idea that this was true. I didn't know that St. Peter was crucified upside down. Thanks Wikipedia.!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scottyhicks93 (talk • contribs) 01:26, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  WOW 

message: Reference two should not be credited. It is not a real citation for St. Peters cross being used by anti religious groups. The citation leads to a book that simply states that "[it is] a symbol of both the devil; used in Satanism." That information is inaccurate. First of all, Satanism and Devil worship are not the same. Second of all, No evidence is provided within the book for this claim. EG the citation itself needs a citation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.9.111.142 (talk) 20:33, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  References list for anti Christianity 

message: http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/synexarion/maurice.html
"In the middle ages Saint Maurice was the patron saint of several of the roman dynasties of Europe, and later on of the Holy Roman emperors. In 926, Henry I (919-936 AD), even ceded the present Swiss Canton (province) of Aargua in return of the lance of the saints. Some emperors were also anointed before the Altar of saint Maurice in saint Peter's Cathedral in Rome. The sword of Saint Maurice, was last used in the coronation of the Austrian Emperor Charles as King of Hungary in 1916"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.160.33 (talk) 19:38, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What does this have to do with the symbol? AnonMoos (talk) 02:39, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The known Saint Peter/Saint Maurice links... 

message: Has cross of St. Peter never been used to kill anybody else than St. Peter?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.196.163 (talk) 16:10, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the Crucifixion article, yes. AnonMoos (talk) 05:15, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical usage 

message: ††you put a up side down cross crucifix on your head to signify evil....near by....az you are the deer near the water drink in....††
a reflection iz up side down....
thus this waz iz never explained az you say....
that up side down iz evil....
more like....
what....that up side down crucifix...."evil"
misread....
evil iz another sentence....
not a jail sentence....
justin christ opher smith  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:A000:8BC7:9300:B815:972D:3DDE:BD28 (talk) 00:22, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: French Occultist Éliphas Lévi pretty much invented the "tradition" that an "upside down" pentagram is evil; maybe the recent interpretation of Peter's Cross as evil was influenced by this... AnonMoos (talk) 13:53, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  why up side down to be evil....explained 

message: There is e.g. the upside down pentagram (U+26E7), but not the Cross of saint peter as a Unicode symbol?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobias_Claren (talk • contribs) 
: U+2E38 is an inverted dagger that can be indistinguishable depending on font but they don't have a proper cross of St Peter. Ian.thomson (talk) 06:46, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is no Unicode symbol? 

message: I've been trying to find out how far back the inverted cross for Peter can be found, with no luck yet.  If anyone has a source for first use and how common that use was, it should be added here. Dismalscholar (talk) 09:57, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The tradition that St. Peter was crucified upside-down comes from quite early Christian texts (see Acts of Peter etc), though not included in the Bible.  The inverted cross symbol would follow naturally from this, though I don't know the date. AnonMoos (talk) 12:07, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Right but if you are claiming it is used as a visual symbol you need visual proof. It may 'follow naturally'...but not everyone buys that frankly. A single image of any pope or the catholic church in general using this image would really help your case... Pushingrocks (talk) 15:05, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of St. Peter's Cross 

message: The article should either be split or name changed to "inverted cross" because the use of the cross by satanists has nothing to do with the Petrine cross. They are the same symbol but mean completely different things. Symbols aren't universally defined; just because it's first use was Petrine cross doesn't mean the later iterations are the same thing. 2603:6010:11F0:3C0:D80E:D3BA:EFAE:8CD1 (talk) 16:20, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It was used as the Cross of St. Peter for many centuries, while the anti-Christian meaning developed in the late 19th century at the earliest.  That gives it a certain priority. AnonMoos (talk) 22:00, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Petrine is not the same as Satanic inverted cross 

message: Perhaps the occult section should be expanded to include superstition and the Protestant history behind the symbol. The emergence of the inverted cross in popular media during the 20th century did not emerge from itself. 2603:6010:11F0:3C0:D80E:D3BA:EFAE:8CD1 (talk) 16:23, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protestantism and superstition