Talk:Caucasian Albanians

message: I propose this article be merged with Caucasian Albania, firstly because Caucasian Albanians were only referred to as Arranis by Persians. Also there is a section in the article Caucasian Albania article that is about the people Caucasian Albania#Ancient population of Caucasian Albania Londium 04:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only by Persians, but by all middle eastern scholars. Arrani is the proper that even Western scholars use, such as Swietochowski. This is about the people, not Caucasus Albania.Hajji Piruz 16:51, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well why dont you add any information to the section about the people of Caucasian Albania instead of creating a new article? Londium 17:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not have its own article? This article should be expanded. This is Wikipedia, its got millions of articles.Hajji Piruz 00:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Swietochowski uses Arrani and he clearly says that the Turkic speakers of the Caucasus were refferred to as Shirvanis and Arranis. Its not OR at all, not to mention that the inhabitants were referred to as Arranis by Arab and Persian scholars...Hajji Piruz 17:53, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  OR. Arranis of Arabic sources were Caucasian Albanians, who spoke a non-Turkic language. Arranis/Shirvanis/Nakhichevanis etc were Azerbaijani (Turkic) people. While Albanians were ancestors of modern Azerbaijanis, they are not the same people. So this article is an original research. If this article is about Albanians, it should be moved to the appropriate title, if it is about Azerbaijani people inhabiting the region of Arran, this should be clarified as well. Grandmaster 04:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text:  Also, where does Swietochowski say that the term Arrani was used in 20th and 21st centuries? Citation, please. Grandmaster 04:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: For all the built-in pitfalls in Russian administrative reforms, it was also apparent that these reforms had enhanced the internal consolidation of Azerbaijan in at least two important respects: the dismantling of the khanates weakened deeply rooted local particularisms, and the formation of the two gubermias of Eastern Transcaucasia resulted in a territorial block that the "Shirvanis" or "Arranis" would regard as the core of their homeland. Even the term Azerbaijan, although seldom used for the territory north of Araxes, began to appear in the works of European scholars or journalists. Administrative integration was in turn reinforced by economic and social changes that came, albeit at a slower pace, in the wake of the conquest.
Now, how in the world does this lead you to conclude that "However, the term Arrani is still used in a historical sense and has also occasionally been used in the 20th and 21st century to refer to the Turkic speakers of the Republic of Azerbaijan."?  Parishan 06:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree that WP:NOR should be observed. The text quoted above does not support the conclusions made by Hajji Piruz. So please make no personal interpretations. And I actually say that Arranians/Albanians were not the same people as modern-day Azeris. Linking the two under the same term is OR. And 20th and 21st century were not mentioned anywhere in the text. Grandmaster 08:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Where as my claims are sourced, you have provided nothing to support your argument. Azerbaijani is simply a name, thats it, its a name that was used to replace the term Arrani, the people are the same. Your claims are OR, please provide sources for your claim that Arranis are not the same people (how can they not be the same people?).Hajji Piruz 14:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Read the article about Caucasian Albania. All sources are there. Arranians were Caucasian Albanians. Grandmaster 05:42, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge