Talk:Anaerobic respiration

message: The equations for anaerobic respiration using lactic acid fermentation are always given as
C6H12O6 --> 2 C3H6O3
and this lactic acid production causes acidosis (resulting in muscle fatigue)
but it is actually
C6H12O6 --> 2 CH3CH3COO- + 2H+
CH3CH3COO- is always produced in salt form and the net H+ production is due to a greater rate of ATP hydrolysis than can be matched by oxidative phosphorylation, meaning that acidosis is not caused by "lactic acid" fermentation. On the contrary, lactate acts in one of the membrane exchange systems for cell proton buffering -- sarcolemmal transport of protons out of the cytosol through lactate/H+ symporters.
The reference I found is http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/reprint/287/3/R502.pdf. It seems to me that the current textbooks have maintained the possible misconception of acidosis due to lactic acid as well. Can an expert clarify this? I just found the perhaps more accurate account given in the article on lactic acid
Lim Wei Quan 10:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yes but in plants the product of anaerobic respiration is alcohol 41.115.30.163 (talk) 17:18, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: "Lactic acid" fermentation

message: Why is this page being vandalised on a regular basis? JFW | T@lk 22:26, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: There is no O2 within the action of the Krebs' Cycle, but only takes place under aerobic conditions.
How is this?
:It's because the Krebs' cycle will not advance without NAD+. JFW | T@lk 09:12, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't it say that, even if only briefly.  See Anaerobic_respiration#Fermentation_in_other_organisms David D. (Talk) 13:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No O2 in Krebs' 

message: What on earth does this mean:
"The end product of fermentation in C. perfringens is a gas which causes the condition of gas. When the Oxygen levels are low, it takes turn to give out a β helix."
:I deleted these two sentences since C. perfringens carries out fermentation, not anaerobic respiration.  NighthawkJ 17:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomprehensible 

message: The disclosable metabolic map insert at the bottom has a legend that says the pathways are clickable, but they are *not*.  How to correct this?  Does anyone know? Rudd-O 01:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclickable metabolic map 

message: Respiration (be it aerobic or anaerobic) is fundamentally different from fermentation and I join whoever is disputing the factual accuracy of this article as the article is at the very least ambiguous about clearly differentiating between the two. I can provide further details and references at a leter time, but I just wanted to put this out there now try to warn readers from assuming that all the information presented is true and reliable. I also fully oppose any suggestions to merge this topic with fermentation.
DocMelvis (talk) 06:50, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Respiration is  NOT the same as Fermentation 

message: The article is factually inaccurate and fundamentally misunderstands respiration. For the most part it describes fermentation, which is very different from respiration. Respiration is the transfer of electrons (typically from NADH) to an electron-receptor while at the same time creating a proton-gradient across a membrane. The proton-motive force of this gradient can then be used to drive ATP synthesis for example via FoF1 ATPase.
So a) this article should definitely not be merged with respiration and b) needs to be changed. The factual correct part starts after Anaerobic respiration in prokaryotes. I'll change it, if I have the time... For now I just changed the reason of the dispute so that readers are alerted.
--Salzbrot (talk) 21:10, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I rewrote the lead and removed the sections describing fermentation.  Clearly, the remaining sections should be expanded.  I am also finding the same factual inaccuracies described in related wikipedia articles such as Cellular respiration, which I'll try to correct.   NighthawkJ (talk) 00:55, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed the template. Tim Vickers (talk) 17:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Anaerobic respiration IS NOT fermentation. Check any Biochemistry or Microbiology textbook (e. Stryer's or Lehninger's Biochemitry or Brock's Biology of the Microorganisms, IIRC) It is also not true that respiration always forms a transmembrane electrochemical gradient. In fermentation, NAD+ is regenerated by electron-transfer form NADH to an electron acceptor produced in the same metabolic pathway, whereas in respiration, the electron acceptor is a chemical speicies that comes from outside the metabolism that yielded the NADH.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.32.141 (talk) 10:50, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  I second DocMelvis: Respiration is  NOT the same as Fermentation 

message: Could an expert please resolve the following contradiction: This article states that:
"Anaerobic respiration should therefore not be confused with fermentation, as in ethanol fermentation and lactic acid fermentation."
The Wikipedia article on lactic acid fermentation states that:
 "It [lactic acid fermentation] is the anaerobic form of respiration that occurs in some bacteria..."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.173.41.79 (talk) 17:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual inconsistency 

message: Although it is well-written, I removed the section of  lactate in humans as it has nothing to do with anaerobic respiration. This content could be added to fermentation instead. Rainbowwrasse (talk) 15:50, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lactic acid fermentation 

message: Hello, I understand that by your definitions  fermentation is not considered a form of anaerobic respiration because the oxidizing species is regenerated and "not supplied externally". However, I do not agree that this is the accepted convention, on the contrary I think that most biologists will not distinguish between the two in such a way, if at all. Furthermore, the article does not address this convention well.  I do not understand how a cell can "generate" an oxidizing agent without reducing something else with a higher reduction potential, meaning that at some point an external oxidizing agent must be supplied to maintain the system (this is basic redox chemistry). In fermentation, pyruvate serves as the final electron acceptor (from NADH), producing lactic acid, ethanol, etc. so glucose (supplied externally of course) is technically the source of the oxidizing agent.  I think that to say they differ in that anaerobic respiration acts just like aerobic respiration utilizing an electron transport chain situated across a membrane to transport electrons to a final species other than oxygen would be much more correct. I think that including the section differentiating aerobic respiration from fermentation should be removed, because like I said, they differ in convention more-so than in mechanism and this is not addressed. I think people looking for a straightforward article for a simple topic will find themselves confused or turning to other sources, particularly because most students are introduced to anaerobic respiration via the topics of glycolysis and fermentation. 
UPDATE: I edited the fermentation section to address these issues
PedroLZamora (talk) 01:30, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Fermentation (in the biochemical rather than in the industrial sense) is by definition not a form of anaerobic respiration, and this is the accepted convention among biologists. However you are correct in saying that the definition is independent of whether or not the oxidizing species is generated by the organism or not (cf. fumarate respiration), but rather by the use of an electron transport chain and a the generation of a trans-membrane gradient. This is stated right at the start of the article. I think your changes clarify this difference very well, but only illustrate the defining difference, not other general differences. The point of the section is to compare the two in general, not to simply give a definition. In your example of glucose fermentation there is no 'external' oxidant as glucose ultimately provides both the oxidant and the reductant. Electrons stripped from glyceraldehyde 3 phosphate are later dumped back onto pyruvate. The electrons are shuffled around a bit, but stay within the system unless they can be dumped somewhere else. The need to dispose of surplus electrons to regenerate NAD(P) is a pretty major requirement and a difference to respiration, where the point is not so much the regeneration of electron acceptors, but rather the generation of eg. a proton motive force. If people find themselves confused by the complexity of a topic they were hoping would be simpler then this is unfortunate, but does not warrant an over-simplification to the point where fermentation and anaerobic respiration are conflated. If most students are introduced to anaerobic respiration via fermentation, and see them as equivalent, then they are simply not being informed very well, and such erroneous assumptions should be corrected in the article, rather than be reinforced. Rainbowwrasse (talk) 00:55, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions concerning fermentation 

message: What about anoxic respiration? That is, respiration with electron acceptors that have bound oxygen like nitrate and sulfate which this wiki refer to but would not be classified as anaerobic under current definitions.
As of now the term "anoxic respiration" does not return any results.
The "Anoxic waters" wiki refers to respiration of nitrate and sulfate as well. I believe the misuse of the term anaerobic in situations that are actually anoxic is one that is troubling a lot of people. It would be nice to get this cleared up.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.216.17.99 (talk) 04:56, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anoxic Respiration? 

message: I agree that my sense is that in the literature, anaerobic respiration is used to refer to pathways that use an external electron acceptor other than oxygen (and an ETC, etc. as with aerobic respiration). This is distinct from fermentation.
However, there are two problems I see:
1) the term anaerobic respiration is used to refer to fermentation on numerous websites;
2) the article is short on sources (with only two plus one unnumbered), two of which are quite old. 
I think this article needs to address (specifically refer to) the confusion over this term,  and not just define the two pathways as if that is the obvious and common usage. I also think the article needs more sources. I do not think we can allow such a definitive statement about the definition of terms that are used variously without some solid sources. Does anyone have any?Michaplot (talk) 19:48, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Substituted at 07:40, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I have attempted to improve this article, removing overly technical jargon and updating links to other Wikipedia pages on microorganisms and processes that depend on anaerobic respiration.  Hopefully the distinction between anaerobic respiration and fermentation is now clear, even to a non-expert, although a person with very little biology background may still not grasp the concept with more general background on respiration and ATP.   The discussion of the proton motive force may still be too technical and could be edited further. S L Seston (talk) 16:09, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  2016 Rewrite 

message: Respiration 2C0F:FE38:2326:1604:1:0:1E35:CB15 (talk) 12:12, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biology