Talk:Hell/Archive 1

message: On a calculator, you can type a number in it and turn it upside down. If you type 0.7734, you will get good manners, "hELLO". However, you will get bad manners if you drop off the 0. Interestingly, the words are not at all realted.
Italic textImportant note: If you don't think this message is appropriate for this editing talk, please move it to whatever talk you think is a better place to put it.
:Maybe someone ought to write an article on words you can make on a calculator.--RLent 22:50, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The words "hELLO" and "hELL" 

message: Is there a list somewhere on Wikipedia of works (books/songs/etc) set in hell? →Raul654 07:10, Mar 17, 2004 (UTC)
*Probably not. Such a list would almost certainly include Shaw's Don Juan in Hell, and none of the pages that link to that (as-yet-unwritten) article are lists. -- Nunh-huh 07:13, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of works set in hell 

message: I propose Afterlife to be the organizational hub of the group of articles dealing with a life beyond this world.  The other contenders for a hub article would be underworld and eschatology, but I don't think either of those terms works as well as Afterlife.  Any other thougths about improving the organization of the otherworld articles? Tom (hawstom) 14:37, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organizing Afterlife Articles 

message: weren't some versions or areas of hell frozen instead of hot?  dante's inferno, i think. - Omegatron 19:37, Aug 23, 2004 (UTC)
I believe the entire 9th (lowest, deepest, reserved for traitors) circle of Hell is frozen in Inferno.  At least there is definitely the frozen lake of the river cocytus.  --Chinasaur 22:22, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hellas means "the land of the Hellenes", the people we English speakers call the Greeks.  Hellen (note the double letters) is the mythological ancestor of the Hellenes. Too Old 21:53, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  cold hell 

message: Hell as a concept might have come from the Greco-Roman occupation of Judea-Israel. The Greeks and thenm the Romans forced their beliefs on the Hebrews and desicrated the Hebrew places of worhip. The Assyrians and Babylonians allowed them to practice their own ways while even in captivity. And as par for the historical ourse they were later absorbed by the larger and more powerfull culture. I think that Hellas, the Greek word for themselves, was used to scare little children in the same ways that the bogeyman is used today. The Hebrews as a zenophobic people would have resisted the introduction of foreign, to them, beliefs. Especially any that coutravened any of their existing beliefs. This is my theory and I'm sticking with it.--Tomtom 15:57, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hellas means "the land of the Hellenes", the people we English speakers call the Greeks.  Hellen (note the double letters) is the mythological ancestor of the Hellenes. Too Old 21:53, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Hell/Hellas - Judeo-Christian Mythology 

message: Are manga really that relevent to a look at the actual mythological beliefs in hell? I'm under the impression that manga are fairly recent...
<BR><BR>
:They are if you're putting them in the Hell in entertainment category... Ø 20:43, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manga? 

message: The word mythological can seem to qualify both place and state. This is contradicted by the other statements which follow where a clear distinction is made. I separated the two. Walter Ching 14:08, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separation in the first definition 

message: this was commented on the page rather than here in the discussion, so i've moved it.
<I>comment</I> <BR>
<I>What Western scholars "think" is not Buddhism. Anybody could have their own opinions, but that doesn't matter to what is said in Buddhism. The modern Buddhists may have their own version of Buddhism and that has nothing to do with the  genuine one. The opinions of of so called "Modern Buddhist" should be published under a new Heading (Modern Buddhism, Millenium Bhuddism, Buddhism XP or whatever the version they prefer). Leave "Buddhism" out of the crap.
</I>
Jasonisme 17:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment on buddhism 

message: I've always found this information to be the best cited, the most clear, and the most concise.
"An English translation of the Hebrew word Shoel, hell signifies an abode of departed spirits and corresponds to the Greek Hades. In common speech it generally denotes the place of torment for the wicked, although it has been often held, both in the Jewish and the Christian churches, that Hades (meaning broadly the place of all departed spirits) consists of two parts, paradise and Gehenna, one the abode of the righteous and the other of the disobedient. “Gehenna,” or “Gehenna of fire,” is the Greek equivalent of the “valley of Hinnom,” a deep glen of Jerusalem where the idolatrous Jews offered their children to Moloch (2 Chr. 28: 3; 2 Chr. 33: 6; Jer. 7: 31; Jer. 19: 2-6). It was afterwards used as a place for burning the refuse of the city (2 Kgs. 23: 10), and in that way became symbolical of the place of torment (Matt. 5: 22, 29-30; Matt. 10: 28; Matt. 18: 9; Matt. 23: 15, 33; Mark 9: 43, 45, 47; Luke 12: 5; James 3: 6). Expressions about “hell-fire” are probably due to the impression produced on men’s minds by the sight of this ceaseless burning, and are figurative of the torment of those who willfully disobey God." --MCP 08:09, 27 September 2007 (CST)
: This is my first discussion comment, so please tell me if I happen to be doing this wrong.
: MCP, This description is not of the origins of the word "Hell."  Perhaps this describes the origin of the concept, but the word itself is indeed derived from the Germanic abode of the dead.  Thus the page ought to remain as it is.  It is also important to note that while "Gehenna" does describe a place of punishment for the wicked, "Hades" and "Sheol" merely refer to a "land of the dead", so to speak.  In modern translations of Biblical texts, these words are usually translated as something along the lines of "grave". --That Knave (talk) 02:28, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Explicit and Briefer Description of Origin of the Actual Word "Hell" 

message: It says the Book of Jude describes it as a fiery place.
''
Is this a typo for book of John?  I can't be 100% certain so I will ask here and have more knowledgeable people confirm.   Piepants 16:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Book of Jude ? 

message: Am I the only one who has a serious problem with the Jehovah's Witnesses sub-section of this article? It looks an awful lot like propaganda to me.
:I agree the Jehovah's Witnesses section is written less neutrally than the other religions listed. Of course it's harder to be neutral about the people banging on your door. Art LaPella 16:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll do an overwrite and pull back on the advocacy. For example, the article used to describe the state of the dead, and now it describes the state of the dead as understood by advocates of soul sleep. Jonathan Tweet 16:39, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jehovah's Witnesses section 

message: I can't find the Bible reference for this statement: "The Bible describes the devil as the most beautiful angel (in his early days)." I'm not trying to debate how true the Bible is - but if the Bible doesn't say that, then the sentence is objectively false and I should remove it. Maybe the intended reference is Isaiah 14:12. But one of several reasons that doesn't work is that if you read Lucifer, equating him with the devil should be treated as a Point Of View at best. Does anyone else know what Bible reference says that? Art LaPella 17:37, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
:216.253.176.210 has deleted the sentence. Art LaPella 13:22, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
::That belief is because many consider Ezekiel 28:12 as referring to Lucifer. 84.48.121.173 22:11, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it is Ezekiel 28:17 cross reference that to Isaiah 14:12 which shows the Devil been "cut down to the earth". You can also cross reference that with  Revelation 12:9 All of God creatures were created perfect and beautiful, sin make a creature ugly. November 8 2005
I also noticed a reference to the Bible under "General history and description."  The author stated in paragraph three "According to the Book of Revelation, after the Day of the Lord soul and body will be united again, and so those who were condemned to Hell will remain there physically, tormented by eternal fire that will never consume them nor be extinguished."  This is a very specific statment.  Could you please cite chapter and verse to defend this specific interpretation.  If not please remove this statment of doctrinal opinion from the artical.  I came to this artical and wiki to find well cited research on the subject of hell, not someones opion wihout citation.  66.143.35.148 02:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I didn't write that sentence, but if nobody else comments I would delete some but not all of it. Revelation says souls will come back to life, and that people will come back to life, but I couldn't find it specifically saying souls and bodies will unite. As for eternal fire (), if I wanted to make a case for torment I would avoid mentioning the second death () and instead emphasize the eternal torment of the devil, beast and false prophet in the same fire () and all who bear the mark of the beast (). Art LaPella 05:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Especially since death and even Hades/Hell itself is thrown into the lake of fire... --Oscillate 14:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bible reference 

message: Western Christian beliefs do not normally include the idea of Satan administering torment in hell.  Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Reformed, Evangelical etc  concur with the teaching that Satan and his legions will be tormented in hell.
:That's strange indeed, as The Bible never mentions Satan as being in Hell. 84.48.121.173 22:11, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western Christian beliefs 

message: Did ML ever translate the Bible into English? The article gives that impression, although I would assume it's not the case. Can someone clarify? - Nat Krause 12:31, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, he translated it into German only. I am adding some clarifying words to the article. Art LaPella 19:15, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Martin Luther translation 

message: Someone just took out a major chunk of the article, a section or two at a time, without explanation. Did it go somewhere else or is it just gone? Art LaPella 00:25, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Checking contributions of 68.160.158.188, he also removed sections of two other articles. I am treating this as vandal and reverting changes. 206.226.218.6 seems to be another vandal, adding word poop in several articles. -- Lerdsuwa 12:20, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where did half the article go? 

message: That would be an important argument against materialism if it were true. Is there a source for this paragraph? Art LaPella 22:29, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Level 54 of Hell 

message: The original Gei Ben-Hinnom was a site for the worship of Molech.  I put in
originally used as a location in which human sacrifices were offered to an idol called "Molech" (or Moloch).
2 Kings 23.10 (on King Josiah's reform):
And he defiled the Tophet, which is in the valley of Ben-hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire lmlk.
Jeremiah 32.35:
And they built the high places of the Ba‘al, which are in the valley of Ben-hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire lmlk; which I did not command them, nor did it come into my mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Sabba Hillel 01:08, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The original Gei Ben-Hinnom 

message: Even when invisible, why did an admin still have to revert it? It was INVISIBLE, I tell you. --Shultz III 20:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Invisible or not, it's not encyclopedic because it is based on a belief system, not verifiable fact. By this I do not mean that these people did not verifiably commit acts that would land them in Hell assuming that Hell exists. The issue is whether or not Hell actually exists. That is disputed and is not empirically verifiable either way, so a list of people who are "now in Hell" isn't encyclopedic. That, at least, would be my reasoning were I the one to revert it. Making the list invisible does not make it unworthy of being reverted if the material does not belong in a Wikipedia article. (I'm confused as to why you would add something to an article that someone reading that article wouldn't be able to see, anyway.) Hbackman 05:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Acutally you wouldn't know even if Hell does exist. Some person might claim one on that list is bad enough to go to Hell, someone else might think they weren't. Only they themselves, and God, would know :) 74.38.35.171 05:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Are you God?  I must have missed that ceremony. Danny Lilithborne 03:38, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nah, but I hope to be an arch-angel that works closely with him when I get up there. Anyway Danny (and others), do you know of any notable people that hasn't crossed my mind yet (in this context) that very likely went to Hell? There's plenty more to add to that list. --Shultz III 04:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But again, why is this list worth keeping/being added to on Wikipedia? Hbackman 04:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, after learning more in the days since, I guess even invisible entries doesn't keep admins from being compelled to revert it. Maybe I could transfer it onto a user subpage of mine. --Shultz III 04:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be an appropriate/acceptable way to handle this. :) Hbackman 04:18, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Shultz I think it's a good idea to move this list onto your user page. On an article's talk page such as this one, It's best to stick to the topic of improving the article. Rhobite 05:00, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok guys, it's been done. Now how do I arrange the list into columns? A single-column list might lengthen a page considerably. Also, feel free to add any deceased notables that have very likely gone to hell, that haven't been added already. Thanks. --Shultz III 09:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to reply on your talk page. Hbackman 21:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "List of Notable People now in Hell", continued 

message: It is an important concept which varies greatly among different cultures. A better idea is to give a brief account on what hell is and to write articles for different hells. --wshun 06:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have been happy to see that in Pagan, Wiccan, all those new religions do not believe in Hell as it is believed in Christinaity, I'm gonna add a section for it and write what I know about it. As I am French and usually go on FR.wiki, I just not gonna come back to look. I entrust those who reads this to help me (as I will do very little)... FenixEden 14:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merci Fenix, mais vous ne avez donné pas de la référence.  Avez vous références?  Lostcaesar 16:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  too Christianity-centered 

message: Gehennom redirects to this page, but this word is not used anywhere in the text.  I assume this is an alternative word for Hell, but who is it used by?  Is it a specific version of hell, or a generic term?  Please can someone knowledgable on these matters add the relevant info.  Thanks --HappyDog 19:12, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just found Gehenna, and changed the redirect to point there instead. --HappyDog 17:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gehennom 

message: Should I add http://www.av1611.org/hell.html to the external links? Or is all the evidence on it nonsense? 0L1 15:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not nonsense.  But it is a sermon, and not a 'reliable source', so I don't think it meets the external link policy. My guess is that if you add it, it will probably be deleted. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 17:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

text: BTW the story is told more clearly at Hell in Christian beliefs so the link doesn't add anything.  --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 17:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A link 

message: Perhaps "Locations in Hell" Should be added into this article.
For example, The Lake of Fire, The city of Pandæmonium(Pandemonium),ect... Anker99 07:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Or more precisely, "Related locations". "In Hell" is debatable - . Art LaPella 15:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Locations in Hell. 

message: I don't beleive in hell. But I go through hell, down here on the lust of earth below.
*If Hell were fair, that'd kind of defeat the point, wouldn't it? Danny Lilithborne 21:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hell isn't fair 

message: I've noticed a lot vandalism on this page lately. Personally I think the page should be semi-protected, especially considering its nature. akuyumeTC 03:30, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection? 

message: There is alot of popular culture, i think we should trim this down abit, but this is only a suggestion, put here first for discussion and to check on certain parts you want to keep Drew1369 17:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. This is way too long. I think hell may be to universal a topic for us to hope to list every notable cultural reference to it. Maybe stick to things, like Hieronymus Bosch's paintings, which have been influential in shaping cultural perceptions of Hell? —Electrolite 04:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok... I'll take a look at it alittle more indepth when I have more freetime available unless anyone else is up to the task... I'll post everything I remove under this topic for additional review Drew1369 18:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hell in entertainment and other popular culture 

message: This article seems to miss out on some key concepts. 
*The Ancient Egyptians and the afterlife
*Odysseus in myth and legend (I recall he visits hell to talk to his father)
*Orthodox Christianity as opposed to Western Christianity (differing concepts of hell)
Hell as a concept seems to have been around for thousands of years yet this article seems to avoid any reference to the development of it as a concept as it is mutated through time. 
Much of the article is also rather vague. Terms like "most Christians" and "most religions" are terrible term to use. It is unverifyable and vague. There needs to be much more specificity in this article.
And 5 references! I will be tagging this later for citations. Candy 09:31, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too Anglocentric 

message: The place where Mienghs moved in 2005 escaped in 2006 only to return later that same year   
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.128.204.45 (talk) 02:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  HELL 

message: I find it under Mpumalanga, South Africa ?????    
   
Where does it belong?!Fconaway 07:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page has moved??? 

message: hell is not a kingdom for the devil but a prison he is tring to escape    
ferthemore allot of people seem to confuse demons and devils   
   
demons - do not follow the devil they are like security gards and were placed there by god, volentaraly because they personal heven is to torture the decedent souls of the universe.   
   
devils - work for the devil and are tortured themselfes    
    
i myself am a scaler on the subjuct and have been studing it my hole life. i am more than willing to answer any quetins on it including physics of it and other such items.   
(alacar)   
 
p.s. sorry about my spelling i am dislecsic.   
(alacar)
:What you say is possible but is quite out of the subject. You should try to put it into other demonology pages. FenixEden 14:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  not a kingdom 

message: In the first paragraph of the article it says that Lucifer and Satan are sometimes "mistakenly" tied together. This is the opinion of one person and should not be a part of the article. It is unfair that the person who wrote this does not respect the belief of others. Where is his/her proof that tying Lucifer and Satan togehter is a "mistake?"
Smartieby 03:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lucifer/Satan 

message: I'm a big Star Trek fan, of Klingons in particular, but it seems rather silly to have their Underworld mentioned in the "Part of a series on Hell / Underworld' sidebar. While the reality of any Hell is debateable, we do know for sure that Gre'thor is fictional. I suggest it be removed. Otherwise, there are surely no meaningful restrictions on what other clearly fictional afterlifes could be put in there. The Halls of Mandos perhaps, or South Park's version with Saddam as Satan's lover...
:I went ahead and removed it from the sidebar and added it to the list of popular culture hells. Keep cool. :-)  Steve Dufour 16:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gre'thor 

message: According to WP:LEAD, the lead section should summarize the topic. I cut this material from the lead because it's too Christian-focused. This article is about hell (or various hells), not about any one take on hell.
According to many religions, the afterlife accords evildoers to suffer eternally. In some monotheistic doctrines, Hell is often populated by demons who torment the damned. The fallen angel Lucifer in Christian cultures, (sometimes identified as the same individual as Satan) is portrayed in popular culture as the ruler of Hell. Christian theologians portray Hell as the final resting place for the Devil and the fallen angels (demons), prepared as their punishment by God. Hell is also defined as complete and final separation of God's love and mercy from sinners who have rejected his moral standards of goodness and have chosen to live a rebellious life of sin. Purgatory, as believed by Catholicism, is a place of penance for the sinner who has ultimately achieved salvation but has not paid penance for the sins committed in life. Hell on the contrary is commonly believed to be for eternity with no chance of redemption or salvation for those who suffer there. Some branches of the Christian faith teach it is a domain of boundless dimension, scope, and torment. Many monotheistic religions regard Hell as the absolute ultimate worst-case-scenario, per se. For some Gnostics, including the Cathars, hell was none other than this present life on earth. Furthermore, hell is sometimes thought by others to be a permanent state of unconsciousness for all eternity, i.e. permanent death. All ideas of Hell as a physical place existing in some kind of realm are regarded as antiquated myths by most modern scholars. Every account of Hell is usually interpreted as a purely symbolic way of describing states of mind causing pain and suffering, and the actions which supposedly result in one's soul being sent to Hell (i.e. the so called "sins") are precisely those actions that in everyday life cause those states of mind.
In polytheistic religions, the politics of Hell can be as complicated as human politics. Many Hellenistic Neopagans believe in Tartarus, which may also be considered a version of Hell.
Maybe some of this material belongs elsewhere, such as Hell in Christian beliefs. Jonathan Tweet 14:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  lead section 

message: Isnt hell just made up as a way to keep religion valid? Like, you better believe in Jesus or your going to hell.You know, the whole original sin bit and all those other silly bits found in religion.
The apostle Paul received a revelation about the wrath of God and who it is directed at. People ought to check for themselves before jumping to conclusions that he was condemning people with visible sexual problems. Here is a video I watched that may change the way that thousands of people view this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDHNJlXsjsk  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.15.137.143 (talk) 05:38, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fear mongering 

message: Why does Norse Mythology make reference to the Kabbalah and Gehenna? Jewish mysticism has nothing to do with Norse theology.
Everything comes from Egypt man, and egypt comes from shamans... lol Just think about it...
I wonder what kind of hell did the Egyptians thought existed? FenixEden 15:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norse Section on Hell 

message: Nice section. This section applies only to Christian Hell, not to the concept of a hell in general. It should be trimmed way back and subsumed under the "Christianity" section. And we should be sure that all this information is at Hell in Christian beliefs. Jonathan Tweet 02:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  words translated as hell 

message: The featured Image:Hortus Deliciarum - Hell.jpg at the article cannot be edited. I' d like to add it as the Category:Hell but is is not possible. Any solution? -- pvasiliadis  07:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with a featured image 

message: I removed the word "almost" from the phrase "almost similar." What makes something "almost" similar?
I also reworded the paragraph to add the reference to Dante. As it stood, the paragraph suggested that Hell in Christianity is ruled by the Devil. That's Dante's hell.--Hrankowski 06:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islamic view of Hell 

message: Somebody earlier had this sentence: 
"Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Reformed, Evangelical etc concur with the teaching that Satan and his legions will be tormented in hell."
Is there a citation for that?  I've been a Methodist for 52 years and not once I have heard "Satan and his legions" discussed in any Methodist sermon, book, or liturgy. My impression is that Methodists don't believe in demons -- but I don't have a citation for that, either.  Can't wikipedia provide more detail?
24.30.124.40 04:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  want citation 

message: Hahahaha, so true  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.183.101.25 (talk) 07:57, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Los Angeles 

message: As this page is about hell, I think it should cover things like various definitions. No_Exit, anyone? "l'enfer, c'est les autres"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.60.203.74 (talk) 21:38, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of Hell 

message: We should have a list of what gets you into Hell. Or who is in Hell? Ex: Bankers, models, and beautiful girls, etc etc.--Margrave1206 (talk) 00:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can show with reliable sources what gets someone into hell, or is in hell, then we can discuss these lists, but until then they don't belong.  Jons63 (talk) 00:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Try "skeptics" - ALL SKEPTICS! - Since The Bible, Re.:Book of Revelations say that all unbelievers will end up in The Lake of Fire. 65.173.104.52 (talk) 23:45, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is in Hell? 

message: Is there any citation for the hell money thing in the chinese section?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cockon (talk • contribs) 15:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hell money? 

message: Hell is started with an upper case H, but heaven a lower case H. Why? I'd just use the lower case unless the context dictates otherwise (mostly in quotes). Both spellings are used, but dictionaries agree with lower case (because both are possible) and it's generally wise to just use normal casing unless otherwise necessary. Who is like God? (talk) 16:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what do you mean. Both hell and heaven are lowercase in their respective articles. Admiral Norton (talk) 16:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Heaven is consistently being spelled heaven, but Hell is being used a lot for hell, such as in: Some other traditions, however, portray Hell as cold and gloomy. Who is like God? (talk) 23:25, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casing 

message: Part of the problem of even discussing the Christian concept of hell, is that there are many different Hebrew and Greek words that are used for it in the bible. I have recently published a book entitled, "Out of the Dust: Understanding Heaven, Hell, and the Resurrection of the Dead", that presents a definitive study of biblical hell. It examines all of the different Greek and Hebrew words that are used for it in the bible (Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, etc), along with the context of those words, and their relationships with eachother, in a concise and non-denominational approach. http://www.cupofwrath.com/OD1-hell.htm 76.119.240.83 (talk) 05:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion for helpful external link concerning the subject of hell 

message: It is definetly time to semi-protect this page. Too many anonymous users have been vandalising this article. Jock Boy 00:54, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protect 

message: Yes it is a city in michigan Hell was first settled in 1838 by George Reeves and his family. George had a wife and 7 daughters – no reason to call it Hell yet… George built a mill and a general store on the banks of a river that is now known as Hell Creek... 
The mill would grind the local farmers grain into flour; George also ran a whiskey still, so a lot of times the first 7-10 bushels of grain became moonshine.
In turn, horses would come home without riders, wagons without drivers….someone would say to the wife, where is your husband?
She’d shrug her shoulders, throw up her arms and exclaim, Ahh, he’s gone to Hell!”
In 1841 when the State of Michigan came by, and asked George what he wanted to name his town, he replied, “Call it Hell for all I care, everyone else does.” So the official date of becoming Hell was October 13, 1841... He probably wasn't a whole lot bigger than most men of his time and place, in height or in girth, rolling into the third decade of the nineteenth century in Sullivan County New York. George Reeves, if not imposing, was certainly a man who required a bit more elbow room than most. Maybe his expectations from life, and from himself, were just a little larger than those of the folks who surrounded him. For even then, in the mid-1830s, he found the insistent swell of population to be an infringement of what he felt to be his sanctuary from civilization, there in the Catskill Mountains. So, after convincing his brothers James and John that the territory of Michigan might offer them some adventure and an opportunity to stake a claim in a land that had just been newly wrestled from the control of the Potawatomi, they gathered a few belongings and were swept into the tide of migration that followed the Erie Canal west in 1837. 
At that time, Professor William Kirkland, formerly of Utica, New York, had just completed the platting of the Village of Pinckney, near the chain of lakes formed by the Huron River. Glaciers had sliced through this places eons ago, digging valleys and bunching up hills, giving the country a quirky and eccentric shape. Crisp rivers flowed thhrough the low places, and the tops of the hills were lush in pine, oak, maple, poplar, and sassafras. Finding the area to his liking, George Reeves partnered with a man named Minot, and opened a store in one of the buildings owned by Kirkland. There he stayed for the next four years. 
In 1841, opportunity knocked on the Reeves door as he bought the interest of two men, Solomon and Bignall, in the large sawmill they operated a few miles to the west of Pinckney at what is now Hell Creek. Adding to the value of the small empire was the acquisition of one thousand acres of adjacent land, on which he built a flour mill to grind the wheat from his farm and from the other farmers of the county. The mill was powered by a dam, which Reeves had erected on the creek. An early entrepreneur, he also opened a general store to serve the growing community. Near the store were seven homes, occupied by folks who were in the employ of Reeves, and a district school that had a capacity of seventy students. 
The yield from this rich river-fed soil was high, and the Reeves mill was soon producing over one hundred barrels of flour a day ... more than enough to create increasing prosperity for the local residents. Reeves, who had had a small whiskey still hidden on his property, decided to build a distillery next to the mill, thereby solving the problem of surplus wheat, and also slaking the thirsts of the local farmers, who bought Reeves' whiskey in abundance. The life of a pioneer was not an easy one, and the whiskey was a welcome addition at barn raisings, harvests, and other social gatherings. 
It became a tradition to bring the first bushel of wheat threshed in any given year to the distillery to be converted into whiskey. And convert Reeves did. By this time Reeves had built a tavern in the town, and so had a convenient outlet for his liquor. He employed two teams of sales and delivery men, who traveled extensively in the early 1860s selling and delivering whiskey in barrel lots to roadhouses, stores, and anyone else who had acquired a taste for the local product. 
After the Civil War, the government raised the tax on whiskey ... raised it so high that Reeves could no longer distill and sell it at a profit. But he was never one to stand on formalities, nor to deny the public what he must have felt was their inalienable right to imbibe their drink of choice. The distillery continued to turn out the amber liquid, and sold it locally for as little as ten cents a gallon. Reeves expanded his role as a mover and shaker in the community, building a ballroom above the tavern and a sulky racetrack around the millpond. Things must have been festive, to say the least, when the whiskey flowed, the horses ran, the people danced, and the lush green trees of southern Livingston County swayed in the warm summer breezes. 
The federal government increased its reach in the post-war years, extending even to out-of-the-way locales such as this. Tax collectors traveled throughout the new state, and when local folks learned that collectors were heading toward Hell, messengers were dispatched immediately to warn of their approach. The townspeople of Hell knew what to do: the whiskey was poured into sixty-three gallon hogshead barrels, hauled to the pond, and sunk to the bottom, with long ropes attached. The ends of the ropes were left on the bottom of the pond, hidden several feet deep where the feds were sure not to snoop. 
You can picture George Reeves, arms folded across his chest as he received the revenuers, perhaps explaining that yes, he had once produced whiskey in the distillery, but no, he didn't any longer, due to the new taxes which were squeezing the lifeblood out of the American citizen. Local folks probably shared an exasperating silence with the feds when asked about whiskey production. Finally, the agents would realize that they weren't about to collect any funds from this little burg, and would make their departure, stealthily tracked by silent citizens until the agents were far enough away that Reeves and the townsfolk were convinced they were again in the clear. Swimmers would then retrieve the ropes, everyone would grab a bit of line and pull like, well, like hell, and once again the little town would be at peace. 
But even a scene as idyllic as this must eventually come to an end. Perhaps the local taste for whiskey ran out as the years went by; perhaps temperance found its way into the community; perhaps the exertion of pulling two-hundred-pound barrels of whiskey from the bottom of the lake ceased to be offset by the pleasure of their contents' consumption. Whatever the reason, the Reeves distillery closed its doors, and shortly thereafter the flour mill burned down. Somehow, the twinkle-in-the-eye spirit of this little town grew a little fogged. Likely it was partly due to the advancing age of the town's most industrious citizen, who succumbed to the wear and tear of the nineteenth-century life in 1877 and passed on to whatever spirit world was ready to receive him. 
Reeves' wife and seven daughters lived there for many years after his death, and the town remained a small but viable community of farmers and tradespeople. It wasn't until 1924 that the descendants of George Reeves sold the thousand-acre farm to a group of investors from Detroit. The big-city folk rasied the level of the dam to form a lake where the millpond had been, and named it Hi-Land Lake. The area slowly became a summer resort destination, with soft shady beaches around the lake and plentiful bluegill in the water. 
In the decades that followed, not much changed in the town of Hell. The stock market crashed, and Hell survived. Henry Ford scouted the location as one that would serve in his plan for a number of water-driven small manufacturing plants, but the plan collapsed under administrative weight before it could come to fruition. The Second World War was fought and won, paid with the lives and valor of many young men from Livingston County. Hell remained essentially unscathed by time. The Korean conflict began and ended, and the war in Viet Nam took its toll on the community as it had on every community in the nation. Hell survived. The turmoil of the '70s, the selfish me-decade of the '80s, the technology-rich '90s ... all have flowed through Hell Creek and have left little trace of their passing. 
Tucked away as it is amidst the hills, creeks, and rivers, Hell maintains a strange combination of notoriety and attraction. People come to visit, to see Hell, to say they've been to Hell and back, and to laugh as the irony of the phrase rings into the air. People from everywhere, all manner of people, travel the scenic roads into Hell, to marvel at the beauty of the land, to hike the trails, to swim and fish the waters, to open up the throttle just a little on the curves and to smile. It's the kind of smile George Reeves might have smiled, standing on the porch of the tavern, arms folded across his chest, as the horses tore around the pond, the people danced and laughed, his daughters grew beautiful, and the righteous homemade whiskey flowed, bringing a blush to the cheeks and a feeling that here, in Hell, life was just about as good as a man could expect life to be. 
There are a couple of different theories about how this little place came to own such a notorious name. The truth is, there was probably no one standing around taking notes during the early part of the 1830s; they were more likely busy getting the crops out of the fields, the animals out of the garden, and the dinner on the table. So you're invited to read both theories and choose one that suits you best. 
Anyway, Theory One goes like this: A pair of German travelers slid out of a curtained stagecoach one sunny summer afternoon, and one said to the other, "So schoene hell." 'Hell,' in the German language, means bright and beautiful. Those who overheard the visitors' comments had a bit of a laugh and shared the story with the other locals. 
Sometime later, George Reeves, who, more than anyone else, was responsible for the origin of Hell, was asked just what he thought the town should be named. George reportedly replied, "I don't care, you can name it Hell if you want to." As the story goes, the name stuck and stuck fast. After some attempts to soften the effect of the name by suggesting they change it to Reevesville or Reeve's Mills, he gave up on the whole thing and simply lived with it. 
Theory Two. The area in which Hell exists is pretty low and swampy. And because it was a part of the Dexter Trail, which traced along the higher ground between Lansing and Dexter, Michigan, a formerly busy farm market and early railhead, traveling through the Hell area would have been wetter, darker, more convoluted, and certainly denser with mosquitoes than other legs of the journey. Further, river traders of old would have had to portage between the Huron and the Grand River systems somewhere around the present location of Hell. You can picture them pulling their canoes, heavy with provisions and beaver pelts, through the underbrush, muttering and swatting bugs as they fought to get to the banks of the next river. 
Maybe we're lucky it's called Hell and not something worse; the river traders likely had more colorful words to say about that part of their trip. Feel free to select whichever theory brings you comfort or intellectual satisfaction. And if the impulse strikes, you're entirely welcome to make up a better explanation and send it to us. History is re-written every day, and there's no reason we should leave that sort of thing to the academics, politicians, and media mucketymucks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.204.14.7 (talk) 18:02, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Hell Real? 

message: We have a dispute about the ordering of the religions presented here.  This was alphabetic.  Another editor favours a classification scheme which seems to be of his devising.  I oppose this on the following grounds:
* alphabetical order is the most convenient for locating a particular religion in the long list we have here.
* the classification scheme is open to dispute and this is a distraction from the main purpose of the article.  If we going to classify anything here, it should be the types of hell envisaged by these various religions - hot, cold, transient or whatever.  We must, however, continue to avoid original research.
Colonel Warden (talk) 14:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The list is not that long. The change that was made, to a thematic list, subdivides the total list, and introduces a system of division that is rational, not random (which is the net effect of using an alphabetical list. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 14:17, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order of religions 

message: I have some information for the page, but I don't have citation for it, which is a problem.
"Infernus
The Latin word infernus means "being underneath" and is often translated as "Hell"."
Infernus is always in the plural, meaning its nominative plural would be "inferi". The belief that there were many chambers in Hell was why they made it plural.--Harmlessgoat22 (talk) 19:49, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latin names for Hell - Need Citation 

message: I'm just wondering, and I'm still unsure of whether Hell has been described in any way or not. I'm not religious, and I am personally against religion, but is there any description of Hell in the Bible? I'm just curious.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unknown One (talk • contribs) 14:53, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there any definition on Hell in the Bible? 

message: Like if you're from China you're called Chinese.
Can someone add hells equivalent? 
Through my meager research the best name would be “Pandemonian” but I’m no expert, can someone more qualified add it to the wiki? (sorry if this has been answered somewhere) 71.40.28.18 (talk) 16:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name for citizen of hell? 

message: Are Hell  different underworld?--Lê (talk) 13:18, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Underworld]] 

message: > It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife.  
"It" depends on what the meaning of "it" is.  
If you are referring to "it" in II Peter 2:4, then no, there is no mention of people going to Hell for eternity in that *one verse.*  However, it's definitely implied in the context of II Peter 2.  Then again, to say, "It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife" would be grossly taking this verse way out of context.  
Research requires reading things in context.
If you are referring to "it" as meaning the New Testament, you are utterly incorrect, as there are many, many verses that mention people going to Hell for eternity, in the New Testament, just as there are many in the Old Testament.
In the New Testament, just read II Peter 2, Luke 16:19-31, the Book of Jude, or Revelation 20:11-15 or 21, just to name a very few.  Hell also appears in Matthew, Mark, and Acts.  There are over 160 references to Hell/Gehenna/Abaddon/Lake of Fire/etc. in the New Testament.
It is significant that Jesus spoke of Hell more than any other topic (about 70 times by Jesus, alone)!  
Then in the Old Testament, there's Numbers 16; Deuteronomy 32; Job 14, 17, and 26; numerous Psalms and Proverbs; Song of Solomon 8; numerous chapters in Isaiah and Ezekiel; Amos 9; Jonah 2; and Habakkuk 2.  Those are just the chapters that have the word "Hell" in them (or "Pit" in the context of "Hell.")  
Those OT references are not including references to the "Grave," some of which are referring to "Hell," in context.
Yes, it is true that many claim to be "Christian" or "Jewish" but do not believe in their own Scriptures.  That should be cited.  That in no way implies, however, that the Scriptures are silent about people spending eternity in Hell.  They, in fact, say the exact opposite!
It is obvious that the author(s) of this article strongly did not believe in the topic they wrote about.  Fine.  At least allow both sides of the story (allowing more contributors, for example) and by the way, ACCURATELY REPORT ABOUT HELL IN AN ARTICLE ENTITLED:  "Hell!"  
This "article" has absolutely no journalistic credibility but is more of an editorial on the subject.  Therefore, I cry, "Slant," "Bias," "Unverifiable," "Questionable Sources," and "This article's factual accuracy is disputed."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cgijm (talk • contribs) 22:20, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on Hell:Christianity not Balanced nor Based on Scripture 

message: The Comment:
("Annihilationism") is the belief that the soul is immortal but can be completely destroyed in Hell. This view is held by sects such as Jehovah's Witnesses.
Although Jehovah's Witnesses believe in complete annihilation/destruction (and not eternal suffering), they do not believe that an immortal soul exist at all. To them the soul (or self, or creature, or life as a person) ceases to exist at death.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_07.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20070715/article_01.htm
Jermaine100 (talk) 16:48, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Annihilationism 

message: I tried to make a new subtopic on the article page that listed and wikilinked notable people now in Hell, because based on what they did, and who they didn't accept as their own Personal Savior, how could they have POSSIBLY gone to Heaven??? I knew someone was going to revert it, so I made an INVISIBLE addition. Here's what it looked like without the vanishing tag. ( ) (to a certain extent; some of the people weren't in the original list).
How about a list of people who should be in hell?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sean7phil (talk • contribs) 
:Ha, no. That wouldn't just violate the NPOV policy regarding interpretation of one religion, but it would violate our NPOV policy regarding the promotion of a religious view as correct. There's no way such a list would be encyclopedic, by any stretch of our policies. Peter Deer (talk) 20:37, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no reliable source for a list of who's where (if anywhere) after they're gone. God does not have a website. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:17, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "List of Notable People now in Hell" 

message: This is not true. Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe or teach about immortality.  The Bible does not teach such a belief.  Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 teaches that the dead are not conscious of anything.  God's word does not teach immortality and neither do any Jehovah's Witness.  I would suggest the editor/writer of this article conduct further research before listing an item as fact, when it is not.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.82.243.73 (talk) 05:58, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Done  /MWOAP|Notify Me\ 00:06, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT believe or teach Annihilationism 

message: I found this quotation from Karen Armstrong's 'Through The Narrow Gate' to be an interesting description of "hell".
"Theologians tell us that Hell is not the popular vision of a pit filled with fire.  It is far more terrible than that.  It is the endurance of oneself forever and ever with no alleviation at all.  It is logical.  You've chosen yourself instead of God, so God gives you yourself.  But this time without anything or anyone to distract you.  Just you on your own."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.181.74 (talk) 02:16, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Modern Theological Interpretations of Hell" 

message: The link at the bottom of the article to the "The Jehovah's Witnesses perspective" is wrong bad.  The link should point to: http://www.watchtower.org/e/20020715/article_01.htm
24.22.158.226 (talk) 04:32, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Favonian (talk) 09:00, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 24.22.158.226, 11 June 2010 

message: FTA: "African hells include Haida Mythology's “Hetgwauge”"
The Haida are a Native American tribe, please fix this!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wmdkitty (talk • contribs) 00:15, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Haida are NOT African 

message: In the Hell#Taoism section it says in Ancient Taoism there was no concept of an immaterial soul and no concept of hell but this is not cited and I can't help but doubt it especially as on the Soul#Taoism page it mentions Taoism having ten souls. Does anyone know more about this? 88.107.44.13 (talk) 15:50, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncited content 

message: Bahá'í Faith is not an Abrahamic Religion Abrahamic Religions . It is moved to the Eastern Religions section for this purpose. Mdchaara (talk) 10:05, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Not true, it is Abrahamic with tons of refs in that page.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 11:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baha'i Faith 

message: "According to the Qur'an and Hadith, all those who have received and rejected Islamic teachings will go to Hell.[citation needed]"
The above statement in the article is disputed.  There is no clear statement in the Quran on in hadith confirming it.  The following verses from Quran can be used as an evindence to counter he satament:
"Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, [] whoever believes in Allâh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve ." Quran 2:62 
"Those who believe (in the Qur'an) those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures) and the Sabians and the Christians― any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness―on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." Quran 5:69 
So holistic statement of "All who rejects Islam will go to hell" is not totally correct and should be removed from the article.
-Binary Descartes
Binary.descartes (talk) 17:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Done AJCham 02:16, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Binary.descartes, 26 July 2010