Talk:École Polytechnique massacre/Archive 4

message: to the editors who worked so hard on this article to turn it into a Featured Article! — scribblingwoman 15:48, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Scribblingwoman, for this and for your comments on the FAC 18:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Congratulations 

message: Since Marc Lépine is a good article, and this is a featured article, is there a chance they can be combined to be listed at Wikipedia:Featured topics? The only stepping stone I could see is having to raise National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women to a recognized status as well. --Wafulz 02:39, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never heard of featured topics so thank you. There are still things that I would like to add to the Marc Lepine article, and I won't have time any time soon for much work on the National Day of Rememberance anytime soon, but I would certainly be willing to help out. All of which is to say, sounds like a good idea, but perhaps a longer term project.--Slp1 14:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I definitely see it as a viable long-term project, so no pressure in that aspect (I've got some articles that I'm currently hacking away at). Just thought it'd be a good idea to bring it up. --Wafulz 15:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: For the record, there is a minimum of 3 articles for FTC. I'd love to see it myself, though. Circeus 01:53, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured topic? 

message: While I think that the latest info box was actually a new "civilian attack" one that was better in some ways than previous "terrorist" versions (ie no "motive" etc), I still feel that they do not really add anything useful to the article and in fact seem to detract, visually for instance. I therefore support bobanny's revert to the non-info box version. --Slp1 14:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: I thought I should check through some of the links to make sure they are work still, and of course they all don't.  The Jan Wong article and Keith Leslie "Ontario blasts Ottawa on gun registry"  which now take you to a "you need to pay" screen, though for the Wong article  you can get the full article for free by searching Google and/or pasting  directly into the toolbar.  Sneaky, eh? Does anybody have any solution or suggestions for this?--Slp1 13:16, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: G&M is evil. I've tried using a cached version of one of their articles once, and the "u gotta pay" page still came up. I think it has to do with their haughty view of their rag; the more inaccessible it is, the more they can charge adverstisers to target their "exclusive," well-healed audience. It is still legal to use print-only sources though; online access is nice if possible, but at least the little snippet they give confirms the article exists and wasn't just made up. bobanny 18:28, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okydoky. And after (semi) listening to Cross-Country Checkup on health care, I am very much enjoying the thought of the readers of a "haughty" G&M being well-healed! --Slp1 03:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Links

message: The article name is "École Polytechnique massacre", but then the first sentence has "École Polytechnique Massacre". Which should it be? (I don't really care myself - I'm just pointing this out because the inconsistency grates on me.)--86.149.54.190 03:37, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconsistent capitalisation of "massacre"

message: I was in the Ecole Polytechnique building once in 1990. It was an exceptionally difficult building in which to find my way around. It had several wings. There were places where I could not find my way from one wing to another without going to another floor. There were many stairwells, but some doors to some floors were locked. The article says that police were slow to enter the building and isolate the shooter, but responded more quickly in a similar incident years later at Dawson College. Maybe someone more familiar with the buildings can comment, but I would expect that if police had to find a shooter in a building, the Ecole Polytechnique building would be about the worst building I've ever been in to do that in. I suppose it must be easier to find the big lecture halls than it was to find the office I was looking for.
:I think the issue was that police protocol saw the first responders on the scene secure the perimeter and wait outside for back-up, giving Lepine time to carry out his rampage. bobanny 17:11, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I went there too, and I agree that it is a rabbit warren.  But Bobanny is correct that this wasn't an issue for the police since they didn't enter the building till he was dead.  You can read all the details of the timings of all of this in the coroner's report.Slp1 17:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

text: *I couldn't disagree with you more that easier access to firearms is implied or covered by Article 3 of the UDHR. And in fact the exact opposite could also be easily argued. However, I fear we are sliding off topic. --Slp1 02:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *NRen: This discussion belongs somewhere else- it's off topic.-Wafulz 02:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  (comment on delete/not delete of the last three comments) I agree, as noted above, that this is off-topic, but I don't agree that it is off-topic enough to warrant its deletion from the talkpage per se. I have restored it (though I had meant to do so with an accurate edit summary, sorry! Slp1 03:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You beat me to the punch (again!) Slp1. I just wanted to point out that a comment was off-topic, but the discussion, as a whole, was moving it back on track. The spirit of the talk page policy discourages removing others' comments without a really good reason, and we've been accused of so much here already, I'd hate to give someone a legit reason for claiming they're being censored. bobanny 03:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Complicated layout of building 

message: Should a further remark be mentioned about how another incident of anti-feminism has possibly surfaced in Canada with the B.C. pig farm? Canking 16:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm gonna guess that you're talking about BC Missing Women Investigation and Robert Pickton. We would need some sort of documentation that there is a concrete connection between Lépine's actions and those of Pickton.-Wafulz 17:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's quite a reach, and I doubt there's a usable source to mention it in the article. Robert Pickton wasn't trying to make a political point. The only connection I've seen is when the monument to the women killed at École Polytechnique went up in the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver (pictured in the article). Local activists pointed out the contrast between how these murdered middle-class white women were being commemorated, while the dozens of missing (murdered) prostitutes, many of them native, in the same neigbourhood were ignored by police and city hall until mounting public pressure forced the investigation to become a priority. bobanny 17:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think any specific connection can be made at present, (particularly on motivations, anti-feminist or otherwise) since the trial is in progress and people are innocent until proved guilty.  Bobanny's observation is interesting but is probably more suitable for BC Missing Women Investigation page, if a reliable source could be found. --Slp1 17:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Anti-Feminism 

message: I have seen an improvement in the article.
In a neutrual objective realtity, we see Marc as a victim of his actions as well, there were 29 people shot that day.
--Caesar J. B. Squitti  :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 19:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It makes no sense whatsoever to say that he shot "twenty-nine people...before killing himself" because that brings the total up to 30, which is an untruth. bobanny 19:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality of the incident 

message: Well, it was an exciting ride.  It looks like I managed to miss the most exciting moments, but the whole experience has made me truly appreciate anew the community nature of this whole project: the eyes and the typing fingers of so many, (some of whom knew the article and many who didn't) who did so many positive things in the last few days:  improving the article, watching and removing the less-improving edits, reacting on the talkpage, and even protecting it when it seemed needed. Exciting as it has been, it will be nice to sink into blissful obscurity as far as the vandalism is concerned!
But I do have a question. Does anybody understand the user's preference for thumbnail override edit? I find the article visually much less pleasing since that was done. --Slp1 23:34, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I've never come across that before and had to look into it. It's because users can change a setting in their preferences, up there in the top right, to determine how big they want images to display on their screen. Specifying the size of the image doesn't allow them to do that. It's not a hard and fast rule though, and if an image displays better at a certain size, go ahead and change it (there's not much difference on my screen). And congrats again on this article's success, Slp1, and for being such a stabilizing force throughout the whole, sometimes aggravating, process. bobanny 23:56, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aftermath of the main page roller coaster 

message: Promoting hatred in the name of promoting non hatred, this incident will be a classic example of flawed anti-male logic, the validates Lepine's complaint; tragic as it all is.
The polarization of the issues, (original research) was identified in 1987, with such other half-truth models as 'stop violence against women' that totally ignores men and children.
I suggest that a critical assessment of the incident, and the aftermath be further developed in the criticisms of the 'radical feminists' handling of this incident.
How can you logically aruge that 'women' in general were more victimized than the father, the brother, the boyfriend of these innocent victims ?
--Caesar J. B. Squitti  :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 20:35, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We have already discussed this with you and why it is inappropriate to give undue weight to what is effectively a fringe theory (not to mention original research). If you want to discuss this somewhere, there are plenty of chat rooms and online forums that would accept your input- this is not the venue.-Wafulz 13:32, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Caesar, the article already sources that quote.  What exactly are you asking for?  When you say things like "it is critical to understand this", it sounds like you're trying to initiate a discussion about the event and its aftermath, rather than discussing the article, which is the purpose of this talk page.  If you're saying that the article should give more weight to the position held by Rackoff and other anti-feminists, then the burden of finding sources is on you to find sources indicating that this interpretation of the event is more widespread than the article would indicate.  However, your view that calls to stop violence against women are "half-truths" is original research, and has no place on Wikipedia.  Sorry. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 16:25, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Monument to half-truths and false logic. 

message: Judy Small has a song, "Montreal, December '89" lyrics at http://www.mysongbook.de/msb/songs/m/montreal.html, discussing the social issues involved in this incident. -gamerSRC (71.193.189.238 (talk) 20:42, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition to Last Paragraph