Talk:Polish–Soviet War/Archive 1

message: Following our success in preparing the Warsaw Uprising series, I thought it might be nice to upgrade this article to featured article standard. We're not in a hurry since the best anniversary would be August 15 (Battle of Warsaw), but a step-by-step improvement would be nice. As the first step I decided to prepare a list of battles of the War of 1920 that should be described. Feal free to add some battles I forgot to mention. The bolded battles are a must, all the rest deserve mention IMHO, but were not as crucial. Halibutt 18:08, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)
# Target Vistula Soviet offensive (Jan.-Feb. 1919)
# Battle of Bereza Kartuska (February 9, 1919 - the first battle of the conflict
# Operation Wilno - Polish offensive towards Wilno (April)
# Operation Minsk - Polish offensive towards Minsk (July-August)
# Battle of Daugavpils - joint Polish-Latvian operation (January 3, 1920)
# Kiev Offensive - I have a decent book at home, could prepare the article myself
# Battle of the Berezina (May-June)
# Battle of Warsaw (1920) - almost done (August 15)
# Battle of Raszyn, Battle of Nasielsk, Battle of Radzymin
# Battle of Zadwórze - "Polish Termophylae" (August 17)
# Battle of the Niemen River - not even started, I have a decent monography at home so I could prepare the article (September 26-28)
# Battle of Zboiska
# Battle of Minsk (October 18)
# Battle of Lwów (1920)
: No objection here, but didn't we agree to work on Polish September Campaign first? Personally I find both very interesting and relatively unknown to the mass public. I did a major update of this article recently, but don't have any more materials ready. Of course I will try to help when I find some new tidbit of info. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:38, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, some battles still need expantion, but the main article I think is good enough to be FAC now. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:22, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured-class article 

message: Two problems here: 
*Lithuania, Ukraine and Belarus being "historically polish" is a claim of of dubious merit.
**It's not making that claim. The sentence refers to the territory within Poland established by the Peace of Riga. 172 08:19, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: who hoped to incorporate those areas into Bolshevik Russia 
later in the text. Noting was to be "incorporated". Mikkalai 16:28, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ''avoided ceding historically Polish territory back to the Russians''

message: I never heard of this term. I don't see it in English usage. Therefore the article must be renamed, kind of Polish-Soviet coflicts of 1818-1919. By the way, how it will be in Russian or Polish (I mean, real usage, not translation)? 
On the other hand, I know about Operation Vistula (операция "Висла", акция "Висла"), which was deportation of Ukrainians from  Poland in 1947. What was its Polish name? Mikkalai
:In Polish the operation is called "Operacja Cel:Wisła", and as such it is mentioned in the Polish translation of White Eagle, Red Star by Norman Davies. Halibutt 11:44, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
: See Talk:Target Vistula for more on this. Operation...wasn't it 'Operacja Cel:Wisła'? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:51, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nope, I was wrong. I am pretty sure it was called in Poland 'Akcja Wisła'. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:56, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, you are wrong. And wrong again. Action Wistula is something totally different, see Talk:Target Vistula. Mikkalai 20:19, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  All right, then I am eagerly awaiting the relevant missing articles to fill the gaps in my knowledge :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:55, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Target Vistula]] 

message: # --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:47, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 172 version opponents post here

message: I suggest we all try to work out a compromise here: User:172/Polish-Soviet War. Please state your reasons for any major changes in the comments section below, all changes without reasons will be reverted as vandalism. Hopefully in a day or two all will be agreed and we can unprotect the article and add the new, better lead. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:02, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead sandbox 

message: I got my hands on Britannica 2001 DVD. I found two articles that seem quite relevant to our discussion: 'From the Treaty of Versailles to the Treaty of Riga' and Polish-Russo War (if you want them, @ me and I'll @ them to u). I'll post several quotes relevant to our discussion:
* Britannica 'lead': military conflict between Soviet Russia and Poland, which sought to seize Ukraine. It resulted in the establishment of the Russo-Polish border that existed until 1939 and An armed struggle between the Bolsheviks and Poland resulted from Russian attempts to carry the revolution westward and from Pilsudski's federalist policy.  Thank you, Britannica. Apparently they agree with me that Soviets desire to go west and spread revolution is a valid reason for the war and deserves mention in the lead. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 00:17, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Britannica