Talk:Aimone di Savoia Aosta (born 1967)

message: Howcome no Russian page? СЛУЖБА (talk) 22:42, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interwikis 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: My understanding of our Manual of Style means that titles are not supposed to be part of the article's title. Thus, the move. I have started a discussion thread on this topic at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography#Walled garden of "royalty". --Orange Mike | Talk 18:09, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yes, I moved this article 

message: WP:NCNT states "For claimants to titles which have been suppressed, follow the general article titling policy." Per the general article titling policy (WP:COMMONNAME): "use commonly recognizable names". Aimone di Savoia Aosta is the common name in Italian-language sources, as can be seen by searches in any search engine and by the list of references on the article itself. Aimone di Savoia Aosta is also the commonest name in English-language reliable sources, e.g.:
*"The pole position driver should then remain in front of the backdrop to receive the Pirelli Pole Position Award from Aimone di Savoia Aosta"
*"Aimone di Savoia Aosta presented his Credentials to President Vladimir Putin as the Order of Malta’s Representative to the Russian Federation."
*"Aimone di Savoia-Aosta, the Order Ambassador to Russia, said during his meeting with the Federation Council Committee on Foreign Affairs head Konstantin Kosachev."
*"'Totally illegitimate,' said Prince Aimone di Savoia Aosta, a cousin and rival claimant, who works as an executive for the Pirelli tire company in Moscow."
*"Aimone Di Savoia Aosta"
Aimone di Savoia Aosta also has the advantage of avoiding parenthetical disambiguation, which also meets the general article titling criteria of naturalness and conciseness.The second most-common name in English-language reliable sources is Aimone of Savoy-Aosta: e.g. , which would therefore be my second choice of target. DrKay (talk) 14:15, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Given the usage, Aimone di Savoia-Aosta appears to be the most sensible choice. Surtsicna (talk) 15:04, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

text: The only question I have is whether the English variant could be a better choice. MOS:USEENGLISH does suggest using the least surprising option (to a natural English reader) if the usage is divided. From the sampling above, does seem to be somewhat divided. Any other English sources that are not in the above? RandomCanadian (talk / contribs)  14:46, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

text: Give it time, Prince Aimone, Duke of Aosta will be become his common-name/title. GoodDay (talk) 16:46, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's not how Wikipedia works. See WP:CRYSTAL. The only thing that we should be concerned about here is how reliable sources describe this person, in the present. Now how some editors think this person will be described in the undetermined future. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs)  16:48, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Over the coming months, an increasing number of reliable sources for Prince Aimone, Duke of Aosta, will appear. GoodDay (talk) 16:51, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That's still your WP:CRYSTAL prediction. Unless and, more importantly, until, such sources appear, your prediction is irrelevant. If would be of far greater help, for everybody, if you could instead work towards finding sources about this person and see how they describe him. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs)  16:54, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Just pointing out there's no hurry. GoodDay (talk) 16:59, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

text: No, the English variant would be excessively translating his last name. We typically only translate 'di' or 'von' or 'van' etc if they're part of a title. 'di Savoia-Aosta' would simply be his surname, no further translation would necessary. Piratesswoop (talk) 19:03, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

text: FWIW, he's not a royal. Italy hasn't had any royals since June 1946. GoodDay (talk) 18:10, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why I said the title's question is getting a bit too prescriptive here. Dozens and dozens of members of former royal etc. families are commonly referred to with their titles. Donatus, Landgrave of Hesse, for example. I can't understand why we must not adopt this common habit for the current Duke of Aosta too. Pinedjem (talk) 20:10, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

text: Maybe legally in the eyes of the Italian Republic he is not a royal but conventional wisdom over hundreds of years and real world examples would say otherwise, eg Swedish princes could only marry royals and keep their titles and place in the line of succession, the current king of Swedens mother was legally not any different to his father’s brothers wife’s, the king’s father kept his title, the brothers lost theirs. - dwc lr (talk) 07:03, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is the common name? 

message: :Prince Aimone, Duke of Apulia → . This appears to be his name, though I note that our Italian colleagues have the page at a hyphenated title, Aimone di Savoia-Aosta (1967) (disambiguation is needed there because their page on the other Aimone di Savoia Aosta, who actually was a duke, is also at this name). This Aimone neither is nor ever was either a prince or a duke, as he was born about 21 years after those titles were abolished. Per our policy, ""; the proposed page title also satisfies other other basic policy requirements such as precision and conciseness. As mentioned above, our guidance on naming of articles on claimants to titles of nobility that no longer exist is "". Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:59, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: , , would you care to present your policy-based arguments for your opposition to this proposal? Thank you, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:10, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have made my positions known in the above (now-closed) thread.  I position has not changed.  I know this discussion isn't technically a vote, but  will be abstaining.  I'll accept either Aimone di Savoia-Aosta or Prince Aimone, Duke of Aosta (born 1967).  But I personally prefer the latter.  On a personal note, I don't recognise the illegitimate Italian Republic, so in my mind Aimone is is the rightful King of Italy.  But my personal opinions are not relevant to this discussion.  There appears to be plenty of evidence to justify the use of Aimone di Savoia-Aosta, even if I find the use of a commoner name as insulting.  For better or worse (probably worse), this is the family that made Italy a unified nation.  CSBurksesq (talk) 01:07, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternative move target 

message: Amazing, the resistance to having the Aosta dukedom put in this bios' article title. His father also held the title after Italy became a republic, yet no opposition on his article title. GoodDay (talk) 04:03, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Aimone I of Italy and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 22#Aimone I of Italy until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  DrKay (talk) 07:52, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Aimone I of Italy" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Move to alternative title as suggested, Aimone di Savoia Aosta (born 1967).  User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 20:36, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Prince Aimone, Duke of Aosta (born 1967) →  – WP:NATURAL disambiguation. See similar discussions at Talk:Prince Amedeo, Duke of Aosta (1943–2021)#Requested move 10 September 2023 and Talk:Prince Emanuele Filiberto, Duke of Aosta (1869–1931)#Requested move 10 September 2023. estar8806 (talk) ★ 13:19, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

text: Comment - I support alternative proposal by DrKay and Keivan.f for "Aimone di Savoia Aosta". I would argue that adding the year as the disambiguator is unnecessary as the the other Duke of Aosta by the same name is regarded as the primary topic at Prince Aimone, Duke of Aosta.  I would argue that the older duke is rarely referred to as "Aimone di Savoia Aosta", and a WP:HATNOTE could be added to both articles to avoid confusion. estar8806 (talk) ★ 20:17, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

text: Support the suggestion of , Aimone di Savoia Aosta – its WP:PRECISE, WP:CONCISE and – who knows? – might even bear some similarity to his real name. We can't invoke WP:COMMONNAME to support a title with disambiguation, as disambiguation is a Wikipedia thing, and is not in common use elsewhere. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:06, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: , only now do I realise that you are the originator of this move request. Does the support you've expressed for "Aimone di Savoia Aosta" mean that you no longer support your original proposal, ? If so, would you kindly make that clear here? – that might help the discussion to reach a (long overdue) conclusion. Thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:37, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I support both. I think that "Almond di Savoia Aosta" is probably more preferable as demonstrated by DrKay. Though, I don't think the birth year is a necessary disambiguator in that case (as argued in my comment above). estar8806 (talk) ★ 17:27, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 10 September 2023 

message: Here Talk:Emanuele Filiberto of Savoy, Prince of Venice#His heir a topic was raised that Aimone doesn't have any heirs according to the law of the kingdom. --95.24.65.57 (talk) 20:29, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  His heirs