Talk:Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

message: "This book contains only the second instance of narrative not delivered through Harry's point of view - the first chapter, in which the murder of Frank Bryce by Voldemort is described." 
This is excerpted from the first paragraph in the "Points of Interest" section.
My question is: isn't it somewhat counter-intuitive to include this information, seeing as how the would-be point-of-interest is that this book contains one of the rare instances in which the story proceeds outside of Harry's point-of-view of things, despite the fact the same paragraph later goes on to assert that this scene/instance DOES occur - to some extent, at least - within Harry's POV? Also the fact that the paragraph two instances of "narrative not delivered through Harry's point of view," with the actual instance in question of Frank Bryce's murder not being one of them (instead, citing Mr. Dursley's wizard encounter in the first book and the somewhat omniscient third-person perspective of Spinner's End in the sixth book)?
:No, I think that it is fine.  In that chapter itself the story is told from the perspective of Frank Bryce, and we only find out later that Harry has seen what we have, I think that it is fine.  Oh and some people even argue that this could be the third, because in the first book it is from Ron and Hermione's persective during the quidditch match where Harry is getting bewitched off his broom; but whatever. -Mbatman 72 16:41, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct, in PS, in the quidditch match, the point of view is from Ron and Hermione, so it's the third time. --WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 19:29, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Point of view

message: I have always thought an overriding theme of the book was the indifference of race to the innocent, and the overriding concern of race to the guilty.  Harry's love interest is Cho Chang, a girl of asian decent, and his date is Patil, a girl of middle eastern or Indian descent.  Hermonine dates a Bulgarian native.  Draco Malfoy only goes with another pure-blood member of his house.  Voldemort's death eaters are also all white, pure-blood (or pretenders to such). 
The theme is further explored via the minor characters.  Neville Longbottom dates Ginny Weasly, but he wanted a date, and Ginny wanted to go to the dance.  One of the Weasley twins asks Angelina, a black girl, to the dance, and she accepts.  Neither considers it a big deal.  Even Ron had a huge crush of Fleur, and even asked her to the Yule Ball.  It didn't matter that she was 3 years older than him, a foreign girl, and, they barely spoke the same language.  Jclinard 08:43, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but race, in the concrete, does not play an important role in Harry Potter.  Blood purity becomes a metaphor for race.  While it is important that characters did or did not care about the blood purity of their dates, the actual races of their dates is relatively unimportant.  However, one theme of Goblet of Fire is nationalism, so it is siginificant when characters from different schools ask each other out.12.17.189.77 19:00, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: Though Lee Jordan is, I think, somewhere described as black in the books (he certainly is black in the movies), I fail to remember where precisely we have it that Angelina is black. The name "Angelina Johnson", in any case, is not suggesting a non-British origin. Ron had, as you say, a crush, and noone ever really thought about a racial difference between the English and the French anyway. And, in-universe speaking, Lucius Malfoy himself would not have had the slightest problem with fraternising with pure-blood wizards of non-white descent, provided they are pure-blood; they are as little "racist" in the literal sense as they are male-chauvinist (for proof that they aren't, see the character of Bellatrix Lestrange). Just that the blood-status thing is an obvious analogy to racism doesn't make the books describe them as race-racist also. (And of course, Harry's real love interest is Ginny Weasley - and yes, that is also somewhat present in book 4.)--2001:A61:208C:C001:898D:E337:B7CB:7423 (talk) 11:52, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: (Note to the Note: Angelina Johnson is described as black in Order of the Phoenix. Escaped me upon reading. The same: --84.154.25.224 (talk) 16:20, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Themes 

message: Wouldn't it be appropriate to delete the French edition cover here and put it on the French Wikipedia equivalent of this page?  (I'm saying this on all of the Harry Potter book discussion pages). -Phi*n!x 01:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Harry Potter#Foreign language cover images. Brian Jason Drake 06:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: Someone recently added text about the Death Eaters rampage at the World Cup. It described Harry as being knocked out and Barty Crouch, Jr. conjuring the Death Mark. However, it did not happen this way in the book. Harry was always conscious, and he, Ron, and Hermione were not separated--they hid in the woods. Also, it was actually Winky who conjured the Death Mark, using Harry's stolen wand. I changed the wording to reflect this. My understanding is that the Wikipedia articles should only reflect events as they occured in the books and not the movies. PNW Raven 20:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  At The World Cup 

message: Problem: Information in this section appears to be difficult to comprehend by individuals who aren't knowledgable about the series. Much of the information supplied in this section could be more comprehendable with direct quotations from the novel.
I've worked on cleaning up the grammar, someone else take it from here.
-Litanss 11:41, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Points of interest: Cleanup Request 

message: The polt outline quite literally says that harry had his Voldemort dream during the time he spent at the Weasly's. That happened in the movie. In the book, which this aritcle is about, Harry had his dream at the Dursley's. He then thought through all of his corrospondents, eg. Weasley's, Dumbledore. and then chose to send a letter to Sirius. I'm not experienced enough to change the article, so could someone change it please? Akid 03:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've had a go at editing the first two sections of the detailed plot outline.  Does everyone agree that the "plot overview" needs to be considerably shortened to give a much briefer overview? If so, I'll have a bash at editing that more ruthlessly...  --Dave. 12:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not agree at all.  As current, the Goblet of fire plot section is shorter than any other book, which includes the first three books, which are much shorter than this one.  I think that the plot needs to be expanded a bit to get more detail in. Especially with the whole Barty Crouch backround, it just says that they find that it is Barty Crouch Jr., but does not go on to explain why this is significant. -Mbatman 72 17:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot Coverage 

message: Wasn't the original title supposed to be "Harry Potter and the Doomsday Tournament" not "Doomspell?"
Also, if anyone has any posters with the original title it would be cool to see them in the article.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.64.76.107 (talk) 17:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That was what Rowling was thinking when she finished the book. but she had not published it as she was thinking of a title. The title you mention is just one of the titles she considered. But this is not official so there won't be any posters with that title.
Robin 16:53, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Working Title... 

message: This section has been added to Chinese Dragon:
:In the Harry Potter series, Chinese dragons are one of the few races of dragons, and are called "Chinese Fireballs". According Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Chinese Fireballs can breathe fire, and according to their name, they must be the only dragons to breathe fireballs, and the other races breathe big dusts of fire.
Not having read Goblet of Fire, I would like an expert to assess whether the claims here - in particular, 
* that these are Chinese dragons, not "Western dragons" that live in China; 
* and secondly, that they are the only types that breathe fireballs; 
* and thirdly, what on earth is a "dust of fire"?
Thanks in advance. --Sumple (Talk) 23:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Query from [[Chinese dragon]] 

message: According to one of the secrets (plant in the ? room) pettigrew was when JK planed goblet of fire DADA teacher and taking the poly juice potion instead of barty crouch JR. where do I put this? Djf2014 14:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have proof, or a citation of it?-Mbatman 72 16:50, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've seen that somewhere, I think is in her web page.WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 18:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DADA 

message: The chapter "The Riddle House" was the third time that JK Rowling has gone outside Harry's POV, if you count the sequence in PS's "Quidditch" when Harry is getting bucked off his broom. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.50.236.154 (talk) 15:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Points of interest correction 

message: Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals at the end of the book? Zain Ebrahim 12:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: JKR's reasoning is here. Daggoth S 12:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's no longer present, but I think I remember something of its content: that he still needed time to work it over, and so on. This is - yes, I'm going to say it - not very convincing, so I'm offering the two alternative options that 1.: he did see them, but for understandable psychological reasons fails to, really, notice (and the author hence does not write down his noticing them), and 2. (yes I'm going to offer that) an authorial mistake.--2001:A61:208C:C001:898D:E337:B7CB:7423 (talk) 11:57, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thestrals? 

message: An IP added this to the article: "Someone's going to have to edit this correctly because I don't know what part of 1994 you are referring to, but he could have gotten a Japanese Playstation for christmas since it came out December 3, 1994."
I have taken it out because even though it is potentially correct, I believe the possibility of a Japanese console existing in a PAL territory in this instance is exceedingly remote. (That, and it's not noted anywhere that Dudley can speak Japanese. Maybe we'll find out about that in DH?) Daggoth | Talk 14:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that the dates attributed to the HP books are based on the "DeathDay" party in Chamber of Secrets.  The timeline on the CoS DVD was apparently approved by JKR but there is a lack of consistency throughout the series regarding dates/numbers etc, and the only SPECIFIC reference to a year is that of the Death Day party.  We certainly can't say that GoF took place in 1998, since that specfically contradicts CoS. --Dave. 10:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am referencing the timeline given in The Deathly Hallows, in which it states that Harry was born in 1980 and his parents were murdered in 1981. This is the timeline Rowling has more recently approved and therefore the most up-to-date reference. Oh, and it was December 4, 1994, not December 3, 1994. --Sam. 9:13, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  PlayStation / 1994 ref 

message: That isn't the only problem with this being in 1994.  The book specifically says that October 30th was a Friday, whereas in 1994 it was a Sunday.  I think that 1998 is a more likely year for this book, but until we know the year for sure it shouldn't be in the article.  Since we know that it cannot be 1994, I'm taking out that reference.  --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 04:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that the dates attributed to the HP books are based on the "DeathDay" party in Chamber of Secrets.  The timeline on the CoS DVD was apparently approved by JKR but there is a lack of consistency throughout the series regarding dates/numbers etc, and the only SPECIFIC reference to a year is that of the Death Day party.  We certainly can't say that GoF took place in 1998, since that specfically contradicts CoS. --Dave. 10:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am referencing the timeline given in The Deathly Hallows, in which it states that Harry was born in 1980 and his parents were murdered in 1981. This is the timeline Rowling has more recently approved and therefore the most up-to-date reference. Oh, and it was December 4, 1994, not December 3, 1994. --Sam. 9:13, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Another date ref

message: When Harry and Voldemort's wands joined, the "ghost" of Cedric re-appeared, but wasn't he in fact killed by Pettigrew? Demonofthefall 13:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Kill the spare..." Yes, he was. But isn't that what the article says? Gscshoyru 13:09, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I was just seeking clarification on this particular part of the book, because I think that this should go into "Points of Interest". Unless Voldemort took Pettigrew's wand (from my memory he had his own wand in his robes), then Cedric shouldn't have appeared from Voldemort's wand. Demonofthefall 13:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh... um... maybe. Yeah... plot hole? I'm currently re-reading book 4 (preparing for the release of 7...) so I'll see when I get there. Gscshoyru 13:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe Pettigrew was using Voldemort's wand. Smokizzy (talk) 14:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Or.. As I understand, the souls that appeared, including his parents, we not there because they were killed by the wands. It was because those people loved him, and the love protected Harry. ĞavinŤing 14:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Um... no. The effect was Priori Incantum, or something like that, and did the previous effects of the wands in reverse order. Gscshoyru 14:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, Pettigrew uses Voldemort's wand to kill him, but it is seen by Harry as Voldemort's fault for the murder.   Speaking of plot holes, it says his eyes were shut tight as Diggory got killed, so why can he see thestrals and all?-Mbatman 72 00:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hmm... I seem to remember as Voldemort put on his robes, "He drew a wand from one of the pockets" (or something along those lines)... so did Pettigrew use this wand then put it back in the pockets? That seems a bit out of place to me. Demonofthefall 10:47, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it was Voldemort's wand. See here --Glimmer721 talk 01:17, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cedric Diggory killed by who? 

message: Somebody removed the following:
: Dumbledore swiftly and urgently revives the Order of the Phoenix (organisation).
This is one of those funny things, really.  We know, "in universe", that Dumbledore does in fact do this, because that's the primary subject of the next novel, which has been filmed and is now common knowledge.
On the other hand it probably doesn't bear any significance to this novel.
Nevertheless I've reverted this removal because I think that it could conceivably be useful to the discussion of the Harry Potter novels, as a cycle.  I don't see any harm in having that here, as long as we add something like "but this is not revealed until the opening chapters of the next book in the series...".
Other comments welcome. --Tony Sidaway 01:59, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well having it in is probably a small "spoiler", because before book5 came out, no one knew what it was. But I dont really see any real problem with having it there, I mean if you've dodged the spoilers for this long... Don't know how you could've. And it binds the books together, so keep it imo. Chandlertalk 02:06, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Order of the Phoenix

message: As we all know, Goblet of Fire was the first of the "jumbo" sized Potter novels, after the more modest trilogy that opened the series. On several occasions in the articles on those books, it is mentioned how Rowling was required to cut digressions, etc. Now we have Goblet of Fire, and its successors, each of which are almost James Clavell in length. What changed? I think a section should be added on how Rowling was able to upsize her books. Was there controversy over this? Did she have to fight her publisher? Was Goblet of Fire considered a gamble? After all, at the time this book was published, the general consensus was that the youth of the time didn't have the attention span for such a long book, and one of the biggest praises for GoF and Rowling is that she was getting kids reading books of substantial length and complexity (not implying the first 3 books weren't just as complex, but they were shorter by nearly half than GoF and the later books). Anyone want to tackle this? I'm fairly new into the HP fandom, so I don't have enough resources or knowledge to compose such a discussion myself. 23skidoo (talk) 16:52, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was 13 when GOF came out, so I might not remember correctly (I also wasn't a fan when it came out), but I don't recall hearing anything about the length. There probably was, I just don't recall any. Anakinjmt (talk) 18:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Length issues

message: An editor changed realise to realize. I checked the Oxford Dictionary at http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/orexxalize?view=uk and found that realize is indeed the preferred spelling. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 07:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While the Oxford Dictionary prefers -ize endings, it is not the definitive authority. The British government, the BBC, and most of the British population prefer -ise.  Given that, as I understand it, the wikipedia policy is to use British spellings for articles on British cultural topics, I think 'realise' would be the preferable spelling in this article. 91.109.185.42 (talk) 22:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Realize . . . realise 

message: Is there a particular justification for putting the Hugo award in the first paragraph? It isn't a well-know award (particularly not in the UK, where the Worldcon thing doesn't exist). At the very least, the paragraph should explain what this award is. Perhaps it could be moved to a new 'Reception' section? Marthiemoo (talk) 13:54, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'm guessing it was put there because no other Harry Potter book won the award. A reception section would be nice, though. Airplaneman talk 00:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In the UK, "the Worldcon thing doesn't exist"? The people who attended the 1957 Worldcon in London, or the 1965 Worldcon in London, or the 1979 Worldcon in Brighton, or the 1987 Worldcon in Brighton, or the 1995 Worldcon in Glasgow, or the 2005 Worldcon in Glasgow, or the 2014 Worldcon in London would be very surprised to hear that. PatConolly (talk) 22:39, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed - 15th World Science Fiction Convention. JezGrove (talk) 22:47, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hugo award 

message: We mention the subplot of Rita Skeeter, but what about the Ludo Bagman/Fred and George subplot? --Glimmer721 (talk) 01:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  They mention it because this subplot is referenced in the next book.the Ludo Bagman was just a small detail but the Skeeter plot reveals how Rita managed to get such insider information when she was banned from the grounds. In HP5 she is affected by unemployment (because Hermione threatens to reveal that she is a unregistered animagus)  and thus we don't see any articles written by her in that book.This is the only reason she conducts an interview with Harry for free.
Robin 16:43, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Ludo Bagman

message: This whole section reeks of original research.  Is it really necessary?
Ccrashh (talk) 16:43, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so...the article also needs critial reception; I'm planning on working on these later, it's just some reviews are hard to find. I'd say the section can go. Glimmer721 talk 00:44, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreshadowing section 

message: the plot summary for this book is too long. I fell that an encyclopedia may contain a small section telling what happens in the book but in this particular article we are almost rewriting the whole book. I think that the summary must be shortened and be to the point rather than explaining what happens every single day in the book.
Robin 13:40, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it does need considerable trimming. Glimmer721 talk 17:45, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot summary 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The information panel states "Publication date	8 July 2000 (UK) 25 May 2001 (US)". However the article contradicts this, stating "Goblet of Fire was the first book in the Harry Potter series to be released in the United States on the same date as the United Kingdom, on 8 July 2000". Which is correct?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:D519:2A00:6852:885A:5149:A18A (talk) 11:09, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  US publication date