Wikipedia talk:Scientific peer review/Archive 1

message: I just wanted to express my support for this proposal, which I think is needed.  All too often new proposals are met with a deluge of criticism from a handful of people, and I wanted to first get in my thanks and support for a great idea!  I wish I could offer to help, but my commitments to things like WP:Chem and WP:1.0 already take up a lot of my time.  Good luck! Walkerma 05:36, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the end of the month is too long. The project will lose momentum and people will drop out. How about 2 weeks? --Oldak Quill 07:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do not think that momentum will be lost. This idea is so important that I think we need time for momentum to gather. I am more convinced of this now than I was when I did the edit because I looked at the history and saw that you were the only person who has written this proposal. I was assuming there was a group of you. We need to build that group. I have asked the WP:Chem folks on their talk page and have already got one comment. Also you are trying to attract academics to this idea and they often want to mull over an idea for a while before committing themselves. --Bduke 07:16, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, perhaps you are right. We could stage a sort of PR campaign in the buildup before the 1 April. Get people talking about the factual validity of Wikipedia, our need for verification mechanisms, etc. Logically this longer nomination period will result in more nominees and wider voting by the Wikipedia population. --Oldak Quill 07:25, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If we get this off the ground with lots of support and good PR, work on this project will be much easier. So, going a bit slower might benefit in the long run. Awolf002 13:22, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I also think it's better to take more time to build up the support. I know there are more than a handfull of scientists on WP that would be interested in this project. Karol 15:05, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see some good arguments in both of those replies. How about three weeks?--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 15:15, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me. Awolf002 16:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Three weeks is essentially what I changed it to - i.e. to 31 March. --Bduke 21:23, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great idea! 

message: The project page states: Preferably, the board will cover a number of scientific disciplines such that any scientific article will get an appropriately in-depth grilling. I wonder about the final range of disciplines to be included in "science" here. Are we talking only about natural science (physics, chemistry, biology, etc.), or social sciences (psychology, sociology, etc.) also? What about mathematics or computer science, are they also to be treated by this SPR? The question of scope must come up sooner or later, and could be answered in practice. It would be nice, however, if the board we're supposed to nominate and vote on reflected the range of fields to be covered, which requires we know aforehand the target fields.Karol 15:32, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I had assumed that this would entail areas fitting under the 'Science and Mathematics' umbrella. Similar to the portal structure we have. Would that make sense? Awolf002 17:17, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't say I had the social sciences in mind. The academics of the natural and social sciences differ greatly.--Oldak Quill 17:32, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In principle I agree, but I think we should raise the issue. Karol 17:41, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, let's get scope sorted out sooner rather than later. Obviously, all the major fields (physics, biology, astronomy, etc.) are in. Also, everything that is not recognized widely by the scientific community is out. That line, however, can get blurred. That said, the social sciences are indeed sciences, they just work differently. Furthermore, while a panel trained in the "hard" sciences may be able to rate broad articles such as psychology, they would not fare well rating some obscure, rare disorder. This project is still young, and we could make some major changes that would not be available options later on. What about two tranches (a word I borrowed from ArbCom): those for the natural sciences and those for the social ones. But, to use the KISS principle, we could just srap the tranche idea and have a diverse board that covers all of the sciences. We'd encourage those who know less about a topic to say so in their evaluation.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 18:29, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The main problem being that everyone so far involved in the creation of this project and its discussion have been from the natural sciences. I don't know how social science peer review works and I don't think a single board with 12 people could cover both sufficiently. I say we cover the natural and let the social sciences create a board (or seperate boards) as they determine. --Oldak Quill 08:50, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The board of 12 is big if you get Leonardo Davinci, Beniamin Franklin and Albert Einstein, but if you get a average phd student you have to have at least two from each branche of science to get a balanced few on a topic. And if social sciences is also covered the 12 will be more likely to be 12x12. I will not qualify for the 12 as a chemist but for a larger group I will try to get on board of the project.--Stone 12:37, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but we're going to have specialists. See #Multiple boards.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 12:40, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  With respect to psychology, I think many disciplines can probably be comfortably encompassed. For example, cognition, sensation & perception and the like should be fairly stable, and verifiable on facts. Even social psychology should be broadly fine. However, clinical psychology/psychiatry may pose greater problems (autism, adhd anyone?), along with some parts of clinical medicine. Some topics in evolutionary psychology may also pose problems. --Limegreen 08:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Target fields 

message: I don't quite understand the purpose of setting up a board when the objectives are not quite so clear...would it not be better to establish a community of reviewers first, and then from there develop a board to coordinate this review process? Right now, the board positions seem to be more symbolic than functional - but I'd be willing to lend my support to the project as right now on Wikipedia, we have no "formal" means of peer review like this. It might be worthwhile to give it a try, or at least so that we know what sorts of issues might be raised and such. --HappyCamper 15:55, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Peer review currently employs a community of reviewers. The point of a board is to give the process some sort of framework. They have particular goals to achieve while the article is in their hands. The board members are more likely to review articles than they would if they weren't bound to the project. They also have a rôle of seeking out expert reviewers who will give the article a factual grilling. --Oldak Quill 17:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Board 

message: is it worth starting a separate sign-up list for people who would be willing to be asked to contribute reviews as non-board members? would a list of user names and areas of expertise be sufficient/helpful? --Rikurzhen 20:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is sensible, but I think that reviewers should, like Board members, give us some details that justify their claim to expertise, such as area of Ph D, experience, etc. --Bduke 21:17, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought the idea was to have the non-board member reviews be like regular peer review.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 21:49, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is perhaps one idea, but another was to have truly expert reviewers who perhaps were too busy to be on the Board, or perhaps in future people who use it as stepping stone to serving on the Board. Nothing stops anyone commenting, but I think the Board will have to ask another expert to review an article if the members of the Board themselves do not have that particular expertise. --Bduke 22:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This idea is good. What is the exact job of the board members in difference to the reviewers? A good list of reviewers with a history in science and a good history in the wikipedia to chose will be good. The board members should have no rights above the other reviewers during SPR. The beginning and the end can be done by board members. The other users should be invited to do also reviewing.--Stone 22:28, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I had an idea about having the board and then a large pool of specialists, sorted into their speciality, that can be called upon when they are need. See #Multiple boards. Nobody really responded to that idea, and the topic died down—the last comment (currently) is mine. I think that that would be a great way of getting the general public, qualified scientists, and specialists in the topic to look at the articles.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 22:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: AFAIK, the job of the review board is to administer the review process and dedicate enough time to write a review themselves or seek help to make sure reviews get done, or as Stone put it: The beginning and the end can be done by board members. However, the question remains, what is the best way to solicit informed reviews? --Rikurzhen 23:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we either get a pool of experts put together now or make one as we go along, article-to-article (we keep the experts for that topic listed after they do an article, building a pool as we go along). We can't ask 12 people to know every topic in detail—that's the whole point of specialists, after all.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 01:25, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Panel of reviewers 

message: The question whether this proposal for scientific peer review would ever be used where there is a massive dispute needs to be raised now. I suspect that in future there will be requests for exactly that to happen. Of course massive dissagreement and massive revert wars do not occur very often with scientific articles, but they can. One good case is Depleted uranium and some related articles. This looks as if it is (or perhaps was - I'm not sure) a complete mess. User:Physchim62, who is an academic chemist, a WP Administrator and a possible member of the Board, has been trying to mediate this situation. I dropped in once and fled. The point is that the dispute was about detailed scientific claims, that looked nonsense, but were strongly referenced. It needed someone with real expertise in Uranium chemistry to sort it out. Even though I am a chemist, I do not have that expertise. Would this peer review process get involved in something like this, or would it run a mile? --Bduke 22:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: DU is currently subject to arbcomm. global warming is another (better?) example of a (settled) major dispute. I would have said that SPR should only be done on fairly stable articles. William M. Connolley 22:20, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but it will be mighty tempting for someone to add the tags and throw it in our direction. We need to be clear what we would do now, not then. --Bduke 22:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone should put that in, about the articles being stable. As for the uranium, I presented an idea to have specialists lok at the articles but never got a big response—see #Multiple boards.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 22:34, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added it. Do we need to also mention it further down in the "how to nominate an article" part? --Bduke 01:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That wouldn't be a bad idea.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 01:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll try to do it. --Bduke 02:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the role of peer review should even attempt to untangle these sorts of articles. The statements made by the review board would only throw more fire into the dispute. If anything, we can say, we offer peer review services if requested by arbcomm. Even in this situation, I would advocate that peer review not get involved - there is no reason why peer review needs to be entangled in controversy and offer an opinion - it should be completely neutral, and it should not take a stance on anything, other than the quality and factuality of references and ideas being presented. --HappyCamper 12:52, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Peer review with highly disputed articles

message: In order to try to move things along, do we have consensus on? :-
# There will be a Board, appointed as explained on the main page, but leaving the size of the Board to be determined closer to the time for voting.
# There will be a panel of Reviewers that consists of the Board and others, with expertise and experience similar to that of Board members, approved by the Board from time to time, such as when there is nobody qualified to review an article.
# That those who nominate for Board membership, but are not successfull, be the first extra Reviewers to be considered by the new Board.
# That people who wish to be a Reviewer but not a member of the Board, be asked to add their details as if they were nominating for the Board, but to finish the nomination with "(For Reviewer only, not Board membership)". Note we have already had one person, who would make an excellent reviewer, say he has no time to be on the Board. These people are to be considered by the new Board similar to the unsuccessfull candidates under (3) above.
If there is consensus, we can implement (4) and then move to seek consensus on the size of the Board. Note that (3) and (4) may produce no extra reviewers if the number of nominations equals the size of the Board, or unsuccessfull candidates do not meet the criteria of expertise and experience, and if nobody nominates to be a reviewer only. This does not matter as the Baord can seek out extra reviewers as required. I think this process is both pragmatic and flexible. --Bduke 02:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me. linas 04:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds realy good for me!--Stone 07:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this sounds like a good start. Would there be any point in creating a charter to define the roles of the board members and reviewers - change subject to a particular concensus? Such a set of rules may help arbitrate possible disputes that arise out of fuzzy interpretation. --Oldak Quill 09:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Bduke, This sounds reasonable. Karol 11:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No charter at the moment I think :-) There is enough enthusiasm for this project right now, with enough people thinking on the same wavelength, that I think we do not need a chater - yet. I like number 4, Bduke. Since this project is sort of small at the moment, why don't we have a board of precisely 2 Wikipedians to start off with? This would ensure that the collaboration between the board members is quite tight knit. We need to have this started off on the right foot so that we know how to build from it afterwards. Having more than 2 board members would complicate things I think. Reviewers, I think we can have as many as we like - probably classified into subject area and expertise. I'm feel a bit cautious about this project, but I think it's worthwhile to try and get it set up well. --HappyCamper 12:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The only thing I would like to add is that the Reviewers be grouped by area of expertise so we can get specialists quickly. Also, we should send a notice out to ALL of the science-oriented WikiProjects to tell them to send their best to apply for positions on the Board and team of Reviewers. I have a draft typed up already; I can take ccare of this later today.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 21:34, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Board and Reviewers

message: I wonder if there is a WikiProject where we can find experts in the humanities and arts? There does not seem to be too many of them active here at the moment. Any ideas? --HappyCamper 12:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you suggesting that we expand to review articles in the Arts and Humanities? I do not think so. We do need to decide the scope. Some people have said "Natural Science" only. Others have thought of "Social Science". Does "Natural Science" include "Medicine"? It does under "Natural Science Wikipedia Projects". Does it include "Mathematics"? The list of "Natural Science Wikipedia Projects" does not. We should be clear about this long before nominations close for the Board so it is fully representative of the disciplines we are covering. Remember that we do not have to cover everything. If this project works, others will copy us. My 2c worth is that we should cover Biology, Chemistry, Geology and Physics only, but each in a broad sense. --Bduke 22:16, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I forgot momentarily that this was the scientific peer review. One concern I have had perpetually while contributing to Wikipedia is that experts in the arts and humanities have been relatively slow to embrace this project - but you are right, let's stick to the science related articles first, hopefully demonstrate that this is viable, and then expand subject areas if necessary. --HappyCamper 04:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broad based representation 

message: If he has experience in writting articles in the wikipedia he can get on the board. The phd always looks nice but nothing more. For me reputation comes from the work not from the title. King, emperor, professor are no more than job names like janitor. I learned this lesson in the university where people insisting on the title are mostly not worth the title. --Stone 13:28, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Stone for your words of support.  However, Mr. Connolley just proved my point....  to a capital "J" for Joke.  Good luck.  Concentric Fusie 13:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Concentric Fusie

message: Building consensus is slow. It is now clear that we do not have consensus about the nature of the Board. In the section #Board and Reviewers above, there appears to be a developing consensus, but my point (2) clearly makes the point that the Board members are reviewers and are selected on the basis of expertise and experience in the same way as extra reviewers are selected. The recent discussion in #Verifying credentials at the top of the page, however, argues that criteria for being on the Board is all about writing good WP articles and that reviewers are a separate group with expertise and experience. We need to resolve this. Please add you views below.
My own view is that it will be good in future if reviewers, after gaining some experience in this project, move up to be on the Board. I also think that the Board is pretty well bound to have people who recognise what it takes to have a good article and that review from non-expert people (note that open review from anyone is of course allowed - this is Wikipedia) will also concentrate on that point. For example I have not developed an article to featured article level yet but I know what it is needed and recognise a good article. In the end the purpose of this project is to make sure the science is right. --Bduke 20:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Power. Use the Force, Luke. What Power do you seek? -Splashtalk 00:21, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nature of the Board

message: I am worried about the medical articles.  While the climate articles and various other pure science articles should be good and if corrupted reduce our chnaces of longterm survival, if the entryist clique of alt.med and anti-vaccination editors damage articles abotu real medicine they may cause a much more direct adverse outcome to someone who depends on them.  I'm not likely to nominate myself, I am short of time and am more of a dilletante than an academic, but this is a problem that I think we solved in http://ganfyd.org with our licencing and edit access controls.  I don';t think those are approproate for WP though, different problems, different solutions.  THis is clearly a good project though.  Midgley 01:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For this purpose we have a Wikipedia:Medical disclaimer. At any rate I think the Darwin awards should be extended to people who trust the internet for information on medicine. JFW | T@lk 02:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good idea.  Physician? 

message: Dear contributors
I'm pleased to see that this procedure is going ahead. Congratulations to those who've contructed it.
I've edited the project page and made one substantive change: the addition of 'normally' at the end of the statement on 'Tenure'. Here, I thought you might wish to leave room for negotiation in exceptional circumstances.
I thought the text was a little hard in a few places—I softened 'grilling' and added 'please' in one place. Tony 14:32, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The edits you did seem fine to me. I have just done the "it's" etc. However, I think 'appropriately' should stay. Some will require less 'in-depth' than others. --Bduke 01:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So better to remove both 'appropriately' and 'in-depth'—these epithets beg questions, and it's fine without, don't you think? Tony 06:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  my edits 

message: Hi.  I’ve been watching the developments on this page with interest and have a couple of comments.  First, while on the subject of the name of the project (brought up by HappyCamper, above) I would like to point out that what is apparently being proposed is not a peer review at all, but a review by a person who is distinctly not equivalent to most editors.  In professional science, the “peer” who reviews a manuscript submitted to a journal is ostensibly on equal footing in terms of training, expertise, and sometimes career to the author of the manuscript (i.e. the work of a U-Pb radiogenic isotope geochronologist at a university is reviewed by another U-Pb radiogenic isotope geochronologist at another university).  It appears, to me at least, that what is being proposed here is not a peer review (this system is already in place as a fundamental tenet of the Wikipedia, as anyone can contribute to it) but rather the opposite, where certain persons opinions are given more weight by virtue of either a storied edit history or real-world professional qualifications.    These people are singled out because they are not the peers of the average editor, but because they have a specialized knowledge (of either technical issues or how to write a good science article).  Although strictly speaking this is a niggling issue of nomenclature (and as scientists I know we all hate that) but it seems to be obscuring the fact that the end result of this project is to have either edits or suggestions for edits that are given more weight than other edits or suggestions for edits by virtue of the fact that they came from the SPR board.
My opinion is that having more weight to a set of edits based on the fact that they came from an "approved" person (whether it be from this board or a reviewer approved by this board) is a flawed idea.  Why?  Because edits should be able to stand on their own two feet.  If a fact is wrong or a concept presented in a misleading manner in an article, I can show that it is wrong through literature references or by a logical argument.  I do not need to appeal to "it’s wrong because I say so, or because the SPR board says I am an authority".  Although I am relatively new here, my approach to editing has been in the former manner.  I do not have the skill at article writing that some/most of you all do (or the time!), but I can pick out incorrect or misleading sections of articles in my discipline (igneous/isotope geochemistry) and do my best to correct them or indicate how they should be corrected.  It has been pointed out that this project may provide a focal mechanism for others with my particular editorial bent, and although this is a laudable goal I find it hard to believe that there are so few technically minded wikipedians actively separating the wheat from the chaff (and this still suffers from the fact that reviews would be given undue weight, as pointed out above).  It has also been suggested that this may help settle some problems with "highly disputed articles", however most of us probably know so-called experts in our respective fields who (while equally proficient in their discipline) have violently differing opinions.
I find it hard to believe that a project of this size and structure is required to simply "point" technical people towards articles with bad science in them.  If someone sees an article in need of a review, simply seek out someone that seems to know what they are talking about…there is no need to appeal to a formally defined board.  If I saw a problem with an article on the geology of Australia, for example, I have a couple of people in mind that I would refer it to.  Thanks, Rickert 17:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You hit the nail on the head. Although I beleive that many of the others here will agree with you. linas 17:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree. There are two differences between this and regular PR: scientific articles and educated reviewers.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 21:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

text: If you have medics and engineers on the team, where is the problem? Why would anyone want people not in those fields to go work in them? But why say that you don't want people in those fields, even if they are willing to help? Are you after Pure Science with a Committee to run it? You're in the wrong place. -Splashtalk 22:09, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We do not have medics and engineers nominating, because we have not made an effort to get them to look here. This was started as Science Peer Review. I am not trying to exclude them because I want to stick to pure science. I want to stick to what we can manage. A small Board that included medics and engineers would be unrepresentative of too many other areas. A large Board would not work well. If Science Peer Review works then maybe others will start Medical Peer Review, Engineering Peer Review and so on. Let us not try to do too much or we will fail. --Bduke 22:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Engineering is a product of the stregnth of materials and the laws of physics. Medicine is no less scientific than bio as a whole (maybe not 100% predictable but still valid). Psychology (for instance), is where I draw the line.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 22:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why? What does it matter if you can find experts to review psychology articles? The only reason there would be a problem with board having an engineer, a medic or a pscyhologist on it, making it unrepresentative of an undefined something is if there is a board at all. This having not been usefully motivated, other than "oh but we should", I don't think the Board has a either a viable or a defined role. There is not one good reason why it can't simply a collection of all willing volunteers who will jointly review and invite reviews. Even if you make this Board, because bureaucracy is always fun for those creating it, it will have no power. It's not even clear to me why a Board was ever proposed. -Splashtalk 23:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about changing from board to cabal — personally I don't see a problem with a board, or a committee or a project or a noticeboard or council or whatever, so long as it gets the job done — and that job is basically getting people who know what they're talking about and are interested to check over the content of articles.  - FrancisTyers 00:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, whatever, the original motivation for establishing the board, it was a useful tool for making everyone say "hello", and maybe we should leave it at that. However, I do think that the advocacy idea has merit. In reponse to FrancisTyers (forgive my not following proper indenting here), I don't think changing the exact word used makes any difference, but my voice is not native (does that sound more or less awkward than a more complex construction? ;) ). - Samsara (talk • contribs) 01:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think changing the exact word used makes any difference &mdash' Precisely my point :)) - FrancisTyers 01:20, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments on the project so far

message: Responding to the comments immediately above: The big problem with Wikipedia:Peer review, in WP, as it currently stands, it completely fails to recruit anyone who is actually knowledgeable in the topic that is being reviewed.  The same criticism applies to the Wikipedia:Good articles process: one could submit, and have accepted, as a "good article", any utter hogwash, as long as it was well written, pleasent to read, and illustrated with pretty pictures. By contrast, "academic peer review" should be a mechanism whereby actual "domain experts" are recruited to do the reviewing. The job of the board members would be to find, qualify and recruit such domain experts.  If the board knew how to function in this way, we could peer-review articles in history, geography, law, and pokemon. The reason we're all talking about "scientific peer review" is, in fact, because the current Wikipedia:Peer review process is fundamentally broken. linas 16:54, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So how about we call this thing here "peer review outreach" or "peer review advocacy"? - Samsara (talk • contribs) 17:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mmhhh... If this helps the effort, why not. But I never thought of the "board" as a group with "power" (see earlier discussion) but as a group with "duties". I like "advocacy" in that context. The members should actively recruit and help people to perform "scientific peer review" on articles, where such a request is made. In this way they serve WP as a whole. Whether the created reviews find acceptance will solely depend on their quality and that's also the way this effort will gain credibility with all Wikipedians. Awolf002 18:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The practical purpose of WP:PR is to act as a gateway to WP:FAC, preventing hopeless nominations, bruised egos and wasted time. It does that job pretty well, usually. It openly confesses to not being peer review in the traditional sense, so it's not entirely fair to declare it broken because it fails to do something it doesn't intend to do. -Splashtalk 18:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. It's not that it doesn't work, it was never designed to work by your standards.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 21:30, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The problem with regular peer review...is that it's broken

message: I've seen some nominations that look like jokes. People with no userpage at all (sorry, see that red link biases me against the person), people with a handful of edits, people who I could review better than (let's just say I hope to help work out the logistics of this project more than help review stuff). Should we have something like, 500+ edits or some other way of weeding out those who are obviously unqualified, or just let them lose the election? Also, let's take people's egos into account. I don't want to hurt the feelings of anyone (except vandals) when not necessary. On the other hand, the articles come first.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 21:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The first "redlink" nominee has a mass of edits. I do not know why his User page is not there. He has a talk page. The latest "redlink" nominee has 7 edits, 3 of which were doing this nomination, and seems to have joined recently. His 1st edit is 10 days ago. His idea that a student nomination is a good idea might have merit. Earlier this year I attended a workshop that was concerned with review of laboratory experiments. They were subjected to actual test in the laboratory and detailed discussion. The attendees were 50% academics, who had submitted the experiments (they spent one day demonstrating their experiment and two days reviewing), and 50% students. The student input was great. Maybe they would have something to contribute. (Side comment to chemists - see, I have been in a laboratory with more than coffee in it!). --Bduke 22:12, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd sooner vote for the first "redlinker", but JarahE is also fairly new: see this. Only 91 edits, but 80 are to the article namespace (when I wrote this). He looks promising, but I wouldn't want him on board quite yet. Most, if not all, of the "bluelinkers" look good, though.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 22:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

text: If there's no Board, there will be no joke nominations. -Splashtalk 23:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: About the self-nominee who doesn't even have a user page--- I had the same reaction.  Actually, I'd like to see a board composed of nonanonymous registered users who have a strong publication record in mainstream science.  But that's probably too much to ask, I wouldn't really want to exclude members who have strong records but prefer to do their WP edits behind a pseudonym to avoid awkward questions about how they choose to spend their free time from their academic colleagues (or to avoid being pestered by cranks); given my sad experience as a non-anon I'd even have to recommend against anyone identifying themselves by name (too late!, in my own case, obviously), although I hope anonymous registrants do not use socks. ---CH 04:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Chris, You chose immortality. Those of us with non-literal account names reserved the right to renounce it. I personally respect your choice for yourself. --Ancheta Wis 17:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Walkerma, I have observed that the finest scientists are gentle (unless roused). My observations are based on conversations with Feynman and Francis Crick. (So why did Feynman work on the Bomb? That was due to the press of history.) --Ancheta Wis 18:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restrictions on who can nominate themselves or the Board?