Talk:Georg Forster

message: I took this from the Thomas/Berghof edition of A voyage round the world. Although I fully trust these authors: can somebody check the quote in Enzensberger's book? My university library doesn't have it. Kusma (討論) 22:43, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enzensberger quote for date of birth 

message: The following red links should be turned blue:
*John Francis Rigaud, should be easy to write a stub using information e.g. at National Maritime Museum page
*Mokry Dwór from :pl:Mokry Dwór (województwo pomorskie); is that a part of Pruszcz Gdański? Kusma (討論) 21:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Another article to add and to link to from this one here might be :de:Georg-Forster-Station. Kusma (討論) 19:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

text: And :de:Freiheitsbaum. Kusma (討論) 20:23, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Arbre de la liberté currently redirects to Liberty pole, perhaps the article about the French concept could be expanded and stand on its own. Kusma (討論) 09:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red links in the article 

message: This diff spans more than 350 edits: mostly noise, unfortunately. Kusma (討論) 06:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main page result 

message: Is he should be on "Biology, medicine and psychology" isn't it better to put him on "History", or something like that? 85.250.205.175 18:38, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Featured content

message: Check section: A founder of modern travel literature
Last sentence there seems like mistake or joke... "He also wrote a novel on his aventures in outer space. He orbitted earth for a then record of four days in his little cart-sized spaceship."
I'm new to commenting/editing on Wikipedia, so I hope this was the right way and right place to do so.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.11.85.219 (talk) 00:25, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for pointing out the vandalism, I have reverted it. Next time, you may want to just edit the article yourself :) Be bold! —Кузьма討論 07:38, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Check/delete mistake in article section 

message: I've come across several references to this Forster in English-language literature referring to him as George Forster (i.e. using the English spelling George rather than the German spelling of Georg). I found the following reference that may explain this: First Taxonomic Assessment of George Forster's Botanical Artwork at Gotha (Thuringia, Germany), Dan H. Nicolson, Taxon Vol. 47, No. 3 (Aug., 1998), pp. 581-592). That source (from 1998) quotes another source (Hoare) from 1976, who said: "Johann Reinhold [...] chose the English form George for his eldest son". Nicolson also says earlier on that introductory page: "The son was named for a Yorkshire royalist ancestor, George Forster, who was dispossessed by the Cromwellian forces and fled to Prussia around 1642 [...]. Throughout his life J. G. A. Forster was known in the family as George, the form appearing in the parish records...". Also mentioned is the fact that Johann Forster 'resented' any attempt at the umlaut being added to the 'o' in his his surname. So what I'm wondering is what this 'George' vs 'Georg' business means for this article? At a minimum, I think something on this needs adding to the article. Does the title and name used in the article need changing as well, or not? What do the published biographies have to say about this matter? Carcharoth (talk) 00:50, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I can recall, Saine's biography (the main English source used for the article) does not mention this, and uses Georg throughout. I own Harpprecht's and Enzensberger's books (in German) and will check whether they say anything about it. Many modern English-language sources seem to use the German spelling, though, so I never saw much point in starting a naming debate. —Kusma (t·c) 06:24, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there are several issues. (1) Which name he and his family used; (2) Which name he was published under where anything more than just initials and surname was used; (3) Which name is used by secondary sources, presuming that they are aware of this issue and not just adopting one form or another for no reason and presuming that it is an issue of German or English spelling, rather than one of German or English naming. I think something about this does need to be added to the article (and also on whether he and his father were fluent in English) and possibly a naming discussion is needed, though I will hold off on that until things are clearer. The existence of George Forster (traveller), who will also appear in searches, doesn't help of course. What do you think could be usefully added to the article? Carcharoth (talk) 13:08, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Georg or George? 

message: Listing here some sources and the name used. Lots more can be added.
====George====
*Pitt Rivers Museum
*Natural History Museum
*A Voyage Round The World
====Georg====
*Australian Dictionary of Biography
*Oxford Dictionary of National Biography
*Georg Forster (1972, Thomas P. Saine)
====Discussion====
The Australian Dictionary of Biography gives Johann George Adam Forster under 'Alternative Names', while the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography state that "He was invariably referred to in contemporary English sources as George Forster, a style which has occasionally led to his being confused with the contemporary traveller–writer of the same name, an East India Company servant." The front cover of the 2000 reprint of 'A Voyage Round The World' gives 'George' on the front cover, but it seems many libraries use Georg as the bibliographic name. There is more at the bottom of this page (from an edited reprint of the father's book 'Observations made during a voyage round the world'): "Properly Johann George Adam Forster. His work in German generally appeared under the name Georg Forster, and this is how he has been referred to by German and most other scholars. He was christened George, but this is less important than the fact that he was speaking and writing almost exclusively in English in the period relevant here, and this makes it seems more appropriate..." Unfortunately the preview ends there, but the gist of the argument is apparent. As he was fluent in both German and English, and published in both languages under both names, it would seem appropriate for the English-language Wikipedia article to be at 'George' and to refer to him as 'George' and for the German-language Wikipedia article to be at 'Georg' and refer to him as 'Georg' (except, obviously, when reporting titles and names used elsewhere such as in books and so on), or would that not work? Carcharoth (talk) 14:15, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Name used in sources

message: The Australian Dictionary of Biography gives Johann George Adam Forster under 'Alternative Names', while the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography state that "He was invariably referred to in contemporary English sources as George Forster, a style which has occasionally led to his being confused with the contemporary traveller–writer of the same name, an East India Company servant." The front cover of the 2000 reprint of 'A Voyage Round The World' gives 'George' on the front cover, but it seems many libraries use Georg as the bibliographic name. There is more at the bottom of this page (from an edited reprint of the father's book 'Observations made during a voyage round the world'): "Properly Johann George Adam Forster. His work in German generally appeared under the name Georg Forster, and this is how he has been referred to by German and most other scholars. He was christened George, but this is less important than the fact that he was speaking and writing almost exclusively in English in the period relevant here, and this makes it seems more appropriate..." Unfortunately the preview ends there, but the gist of the argument is apparent. As he was fluent in both German and English, and published in both languages under both names, it would seem appropriate for the English-language Wikipedia article to be at 'George' and to refer to him as 'George' and for the German-language Wikipedia article to be at 'Georg' and refer to him as 'Georg' (except, obviously, when reporting titles and names used elsewhere such as in books and so on), or would that not work? Carcharoth (talk) 14:15, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: There is a collection of Forster drawings at the Natural History Museum in London, UK. At the moment, the main article mentions ethnographical collection in Gottingen (the Cook-Forster-Sammlung or Cook-Forster Collection), and the collection at the Pitt Rivers Museum in Oxford, but some of the other collections are only mentioned in the external links. The collection at the UK Natural History Museum is indirectly mentioned in the external links as Drawing of a Chinstrap Penguin, but I'm wondering if the material further down that page should be incorporated somewhere in the article? The most obvious bit is: "By the end of Cook's second voyage, George Forster had completed 271 zoological paintings, and 420 botanical paintings." But there is other information from that page that could be added as well (such as the current location of these drawings and early biographical information such as "In 1770, father and son moved to London"). As this is a featured article, I'm posting a note here first before making any changes or additions. Carcharoth (talk) 22:56, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Forster drawings 

message: The Kirghiz steppe lies in Central Asia, far away from the lower Volga (a strange error already found in the German Wikipedia). Now replaced by "the Kalmyk steppe", with cross ref to today's Kalmykia, which lies a bit to the south - but in the 18th century the Kalmyk horde still roamed quite close to Saratov guberniya, as can be seen on old maps (for instance, on http://wolgadeutsche.net/history4.htm (in Russian)). Actually, the reference to the steppe here seems superfluous - surely the two Forsters spent their time in the Volga river settlements rather than in the steppe to the East.
83.76.130.1 (talk) 14:23, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kirghiz steppe ?? 

message: This Featured article, promoted in 2006, has not been maintained to FA standards, and has a good deal of uncited text as well as MOS issues.  Is anyone able to tune it up to avoid a Featured article review?  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:27, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAR needed 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Perhaps we should collect some views on reliability and scope of the sources used? I'll make a start with some comments.
*Uhlig 2004: excellent biography in German, aware of Forster's work and reception in several languages. 
*Saine 1972: biography in English, mostly concentrating on his life in Germany (only eight pages cover the time until 1778) and his interaction with revolutionaries and Enlightenment scholars. Ignored or ridiculed by a lot of later scholarship
*Hoare 1976: definitive biography of JR Forster in English, with lots of content about Georg
*Thomas & Berghof 2000: in the edition of Voyage, there is a biography that reads a bit like a tertiary source. Perhaps better for reception than for biographical work
*Kahn 1968: in the edition of Voyage, there is a lot of material about writing and reception of the book
*Aulie: Some very accessible and scholarly written chapters in English, in the context of the Voyage. (book) (about the Forsters). Looks great to me, but doesn't pass the "high quality WP:RS" test by lacking a highly reputable publisher. 
Will collect/comment more as I look through books/articles. (Trying to get high quality, easily accessible, and English-language references for everything; sometimes can't do all at once). —Kusma (talk) 14:31, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Some old versions of the article used to say that the Tischbein (main) image could have been by Anton Graff. Maybe people were confusing it with this picture? The von Greyerz family involved here are most likely the descendants of Georg Forster's second daughter, Clara/Claire, who married . —Kusma (talk) 20:41, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Or not:  archive of Bertschinger, Los Gatos 1988, possibly not RS, but cited in the edition of Therese Huber's letters (vol. 5). —Kusma (talk) 22:44, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anton Graff