Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology/Archive 2007

message: Just a heads up that the article on John Brooke-Little is going to be featured on the main page tomorrow. We should keep a close eye on it to make sure that it is not vandalised or otherwise messed with. --Eva bd 22:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[John Brooke-Little]]

message: Hello, I am just curious why the articles about coat of arms don't have an infobox while articles about flags do? It would be nice if there was an infobox on every CoA related article.--Crzycheetah 20:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What are you expecting in the info box that's not in the article or o be taken from the article if it already exists?Alci12 12:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The name at the top, of course, then image, date adopted, design (can include what animal is used if any or what colors are used), the text (the one that Coats of arms of Europe has for some coats of arms), and finally the holder (again, the one that Coats of arms of Europe has).--Crzycheetah 18:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  For a ood number of articles in this area that is basically the article content in whole. So we would simply get left with an infobox and little article text. Alci12 15:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

text: The infobox for flag articles was started by me, since I am pretty much seeing some of the majory Wiki's using infoboxes on flag articles (mostly from es.wikipedia). Plus, I have seen some of my fellow admins tag articles for having a lack of an infobox. I have no problems if an infobox exists for the arms. I would not mind trying it out, if it doesn't work, then oh well. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 01:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that an infobox makes articles look professional, whatever that means. Any article without an infobox is a stub for me.--Crzycheetah 02:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, lets get started. I like the suggestions put up by you, since that is pretty much putting the arms in brief. Though some elements that you ask you, such as holder of the arms, will be hard to find out. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 03:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is there no infobox for CoA's? 

message: There's currently a dispute at Flag of Poland about whether or not the color shown on the image is white. The current image takes the "official white" and converts it to RGB, which shows up as grey. I don't think that some of the people understand that the color on a computer image cannot always be taken directly from the ink specifications, as they are completely different methods of displaying colors. --Ibagli (Talk) 22:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The debate was settled at the Wikimedia Commons, I would suggest of taking the dispute there. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag of Poland color dispute

message: Flag of South Africa has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.
sJeffpw 22:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag of South Africa

message: Canadian Heraldic Authority has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.
SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Canadian Heraldic Authority

message: Just a warning for those that may not know that our Flag of Lithuania is being featured on the main page today. It would be good to watch out for vandals today.--Eva bd 01:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag of Lithuania

message: George IV's article is currently subject to Featured article review and a request has been made to provide a citation for: George IV of the United Kingdom#Arms. Can anyone here help out by adding a single reference? Thanks. DrKiernan 11:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. I've added the two relevant London Gazette entries. I hope I've cited the Gazette correctly; if not, feel free to correct it. talkGiler S 12:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arms of George IV of the United Kingdom 

message: Please see Talk:Northern Ireland regarding the use of the Flag of Northern Ireland in the infobox. The question is whether the Ulster Banner should be used, the Union Flag, or no flags at all. Astrotrain 11:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Northern Ireland

message: Just a notice that I have managed to download from Gallica and upload to Commons the map of Angelino Dulcert, which is very interesting as a source of some of the oldest flag drawings. The oldest drawing of a flag of Serbia could be found on the map (which I added to the article), and there are other interesting flags - for example what is that thing on the flag of Poland? I can't find anything about it articles on flag or coat of arms of Poland. Nikola 06:35, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dulcert's map 

message: I've recently expanded the article Flag of Portugal and put it for peer review. If you would like to address comments and suggestions, please follow the link on the title. Thanks! Parutakupiu talk || contribs 19:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Peer review/Flag of Portugal/archive1]] 

message: This questions is at least moderately related to heraldry in its broadest sense, so I thought I'd post it here. As members of this project are possibly aware, the family of Orders of St John is confusing. There is a good deal of chaos in their organization on Wikipedia. I thought I'd bring a proposal here (originally proposed by User:Boven who now seems to be inactive). I'd like to see the articles written and organized thusly:
*Knights Hospitaller(covering the general broad history of the order from its beginnings in the Holy Land to present)
*Alliance of Orders of St John(a description of the structure and purpose of this group)
:*Order of Malta(the catholic order with extended history from the beginnings to present)
:The Four Main Protestant Orders
:*Balley Brandenburg ("Johanniterorden")(Germany)
:*Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem(England)
:*Johanniterorden I Sverige(Sweden)
:*Johanniter Orde in Nederland(Netherlands)
:The Four non-German Commanderies of the Bailiwick of Brandenburg
:*Swiss Commandery of the Order of St John(Switzerland)
:*French Commandery of the Order of St John(France)
:*Hungarian Commandery of the Order of St John(Hungary)
:*Finnish Commandery of the Order of St John(Finland)
I think that an organization this way would be helpful. We could also add a category such as Category:St John Orders or something like that to group them all together, as well as a possible template showing their relationships. What say ya'll?--Eva bd 19:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bringing order to Orders

message: Hi, 
I was hoping someone could look over the discription of a regimental guidon I just added to an article HERE, and revise it as needed.
Thanks! Mike McGregor (Can) 15:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone double-check a discription of a Guidon for me? 

message: Hi there. A comment has just been placed here with regard to the accuracy of the colors currently used on :Image:Flag of Quebec.svg, as the flag is currently on the Main Page, and a discussion to the same effect has been going on  for a while, with little contribution. I would appreciate it if any members of this project more knowledgeable on the matter could weigh in. Thanks in advance, Fvasconcellos 22:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to Dr pda for feedback. A new version with corrected colors is now available at :Image:Drapeau du Québec.svg. Fvasconcellos 00:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put the corrected colours on the main page. Lexicon (talk) 00:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Fvasconcellos 01:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, now I don't know if it's right.  Check out this.  There's also this, which seems to have all specifications aside from colour. Lexicon (talk) 01:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hrm, the eps file here does seem to have a lighter blue when you open it. Lexicon (talk) 01:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. I honestly don't know what to make of that. Fvasconcellos 02:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have recorrected the colours to exactly match those of the EPS file from the government of Quebec.  I think that would have to be totally correct.  Lexicon (talk) 02:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Ah, I probably hadn't corrected the Wikipedia version yet (I corrected the Commons before remembering that it was uploaded to Wikipedia for protection sake). Try now. Lexicon (talk) 02:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That looks about right now (I downloaded and checked on Inkscape, now there's a difference) Phew. Fvasconcellos 02:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag of Quebec 

message: Hi, I just translated Flag of Cantabria from the Spanish wikipedia, as Cantabria is the current Spanish Translation of the week. Maybe you should give it a look, see if you can improve it, or maybe standardize it with other flag articles.
Cheers. --Wafry 13:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag of Cantabria 

message: Hello, this coat of arms is currently up for featured picture status and we would like to get some expert input on the accuracy of the design. This is not a solicitation to vote in either way in the discussion, although editors are always at liberty to offer their opinions on the artistic merit of the picture as well. Thanks, trialsanderrors 03:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bumping this down because the nomination is currently suspended for lack of expert input. Please have a look at it. Thanks ! trialsanderrors 05:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments requested re [[Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Emblem of the Papacy|WP:FPC/Emblem of the Papacy]]

message: I recently completed an expansion of Coat of arms of Spain, which might need an assessment rating. Thanks. --Maurice27 19:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reassessed it and added a few comments. Welcome to WP:HV. Valentinian T / C 20:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the comments Valentinian. I will make the changes ASAP. --Maurice27 08:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Coat of arms of Spain

message: I recently completed an expansion of Flag of Spain, which might need an assessment rating. Thanks. --Maurice27 08:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag of Spain

message: Could someone with specialist knowledge of heraldry check the new article Coat of arms of Amsterdam on the correct use of heraldic terms? – Ilse@ 01:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coat of arms of Amsterdam 

message: I recently completed an expansion of Spanish heraldry, which might need an assessment rating. Thanks. --Maurice27 17:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish heraldry 

message: I'm leaving this note on the heraldry portal board, hoping some of you folks with good sense and good taste will see to it that the totally inappropriate sexual content in the Saltire article is removed to its own article.  This is just plain goofy; there is no connection between the heraldic saltire and the BDSM usage except the shape.  One is a heraldic symbol, the other is a sexual instrument, and they don't belong in the same article.
If I knew how to remove the material and create a disambiguation page, I would, but that's beyond my wikicapicity.  I see from the Saltire history page that someone else has already tried to do what I've suggested but gotten repeatedly reverted.
Please, guys:  I'm not against anyone's having BDSM sex if they want to, but this is utterly ridiculous.  Let's wise up here and make separate articles so readers find what they expect and need, either way. Textorus 22:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Saltire]] and BDSM Sex 

message: Given :Image:Flag of Preussen 1701-1918.jpg is used quite extensively around Wikipedia, shouldn't a SVG or at least a PNG version be made available? Centy 19:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be a PNG, at least. However, both images never identified the original source of the image. However, I think Mr. Olle allowed his work to be on Wikipedia. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed he did - see this declaration on the German Wikipedia - 52 Pickup 19:33, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, I will be AFK for some time, so yall can make a PNG image and attach the terms he stated onto the image. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag of Prussia 

message: Please, help with this question. A.Z. 20:03, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference desk question about flag protocol 

message: Discussion about the format and content of this page has implications for flag lists on Wikipedia in general, which may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. --ScottMainwaring 14:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag list policy debate at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gallery of city flags]] 

message: Does this project have a naming convention or conventions for articles within its scope? I recently reviewed an article Munich Coat of Arms that I believe would be more appropriately named "Coat of arms of Munich".  I work primarily with plant related articles and we have decided for the sake of consistency that all articles have scientific, rather than common names, for example. If there is no standard, perhaps you should consider creating one. If there is, please move the article accordingly. Thanks very much! (P.S. I don't think I had the slightest clue about heraldry before I started using Wikipedia. Keep it up!) Djlayton4 | talk  |  contribs 14:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preference in Naming Convention? 

message: Hi there. I just saw the Flag of Portugal article was today's featured article; congratulations! I was a little confused by the use of symbols in the article, which doesn't explain what the symbols mean. Eventually I found their meanings at flag terminology. It might be a good idea to have some standard link or template to explain to non-experts where to find this information. Just a suggestion. Cmprince 03:15, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've recently reworked the  template so the information about that symbol appears if you place your pointer over it. Other wikis supplement this with a small link next to every image that points to their flag terminology article (e.g. see :nl:Vlag van Polen) - I did include this feature but it is currently disabled. - 52 Pickup 13:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vexillological symbols in articles 

message: Is there any preferred style for the leaders of flag articles? Looking at just the featured articles, we have:
*The national flag of country
*The flag of country
*The current national flag of country
*The National Flag of country
*The National flag of country
(All the country names have been replaced with "country", and, in the last one, "regional" has been replaced with "national" so that all the methods are compared fairly.)
There are also some non-featured ones with national flag of country. Shouldn't there be a consistent style here? My preference would be for flag of country or national flag of country. --Islomaniac 973 18:05, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no preferred style that I personally go with (unless there is a style I keep on using by accident). But, it would at least good to bold "flag of country" and link the name of the country. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:57, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The manual of style says not to have links in the bolded title. JPD (talk) 09:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's good to get the country in as early as possible. Perhaps "the flag of country is the national flag of country ...", although that is overly wordy. --Islomaniac 973 22:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sound a bit redundant IMHO. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:04, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I would recommend "The national flag of country", or, if the WP:MOS is to be rigidly adhered to (I don't think it has to be — it's a guideline, not a policy), "The national flag of country".  But only for countries which don't distinguish between civil, state, war versions of their national flag.  For countries that do make such distinctions, shouldn't these be mentioned up front?  E.g., for Flag of Japan, I think lead sentence should start "The civil and state flag and ensign of Japan...".  The current phrasing found there is misleading, as it suggests Japan has only one national flag; actually, it has three:  the aforementioned civil/state flag/ensign; a war flag; and a naval ensign.  All represent Japan, each in its appropriate context. "National flag" is an ambiguous term (see the discussion at :Template talk:Infobox National flag), and I think readers would be well-served by some clarity in the introductions to these articles. --ScottMainwaring 05:00, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the MOS recommends both that the title be bolded in the first sentence, and that it shouldn't include links. It is only a guideline, but I think it is a good guideline that should be followed unless it is too unwieldy. As for the issue of usage, yes it should be made clear in the intro, but not necessarily in the very first sentence/clause. The exact wording will very much depend on the particular case - several countries that do have more than one national flag in the broader sense do actually have one version named by law as "the national flag". JPD (talk) 09:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leading paragraph of articles 

message: Hi flag lovers. ive noticed there is no article on, or any images of, the flag of Balochistan/flag of the Balochi people. It is a very large, not insignificant region, so needs some mention of its flag. They certainly have one, as a google image search will show. Now i know i could do it myself, but im unsure of the copyright status of the online images, and i wouldnt like to create anything that is against your standard procedure, and well im tired and not sure if i can be bothered. Here is a link to the Flags of the World entry on it for starters Willy turner 00:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can make the flag image with no problems, since I don't think there is a copyright issue with them. As for an article, sure, you can make it. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:14, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag of Balochistan

message: Have we a category for armigers? A colleague of mine who has a Wikipedia article was recently granted arms. -- Evertype·✆ 17:54, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We now have a Category:Armigers. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Armigers The way I would propose to use this is to add it to articles which show the arms or specify the blazon. -- Evertype·✆ 10:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid this category was short-lived. I found out today it was deleted on 21 May. The discussion is at . I have to say, this is irritating because populating the category took rather a lot of time, and despite the dismissive tone of the discussion, it was not unverifiable. I only added people to the category whose arms were actually shown on their page. I didn't know that the category was up for deletion, and the nominator did not, for instance, contact me as the category's creator. So my question to memebers of this WikiProject is: Should there be a Category for Armigers? -- Evertype·✆ 18:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You could ask that the deletion ber overturned at Deletion Review, the above suggests a possible case. DES (talk) 22:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armigers 

message: I have a question about the correct use of the FIAV vexillological symbols for flag use. If a flag is used as an ensign only on inland waterways, then what symbol should I use? Does inland navigation qualify as "land use" or "sea use"? Thanks — Kpalion(talk) 11:12, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inland ensign? 

message: Is it intended that this article show sovereign-state state flags or sovereign-state civil flags: until that is decided, it cannot be said to be accurate.  I am aware that in the case of Ecuador the two are not the same: I suspect that those with greater interest than I in matters vexillilogical will be able to cite others.  Kevin McE 22:18, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article [[Gallery of sovereign-state flags]] 

message: We got authorization from NAVA to use the meeting flags, past and present, on Wikipedia. You can use the license at :Image:Flag of NAVA.svg on the images. It would be best to take the images from NAVA's website. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NAVA meeting flags 

message: Hi all,
I recently created a start/stub article about the Flag of Valencia, using as sources and references the SEV (Spanish Vexillological Society) website, pictures and some decrees from the Valencian Community. Another user has engaged in an edit and revert war about the proportions of the flag. His sources and explanations seem to me unencyclopedic and with a complete lack of knowledge in vexillological matters and terminology.
For this reason I'm asking for willing members of this wikiproject to take a look at the stub Flag of Valencia, its sources, and to the arguments expressed by both of us in the talk-page Talk:Flag of Valencia in order to have some second opinions from proved connoisseur in vexillological matters. Thanks. --Maurice27 12:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My hunch would be to stick to the relevant law. FOTW describes the proportions as unspecified but that 2:3 would be the intention of the relevant law. I don't speak any Romance languages, so I'll stick to FOTW. If (as it appears) 1:2 is a more traditional form in common use, my personal take would be to write something along the lines of "2:3 (law of 19xx), 1:2 (traditional, also commonly used)" in the infobox and add a footnote something like this: "Law no. XYZ issued by XYZ of 19xx specifies the proportions as ... . Proportions of 1:2 have been used since ... and remain in common usage." Just my 2 cents, but it all depends on the exact wording of the relevant law. Valentinian T / C 12:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Valencian flag dispute

message: If anybody has knowledge about the specifics of the coat of arms of the Holy See, please help getting the details right on this image replacement request on WP:GL. In particular, it seems like we need to know if the cord should be tied around the keys or not. As far as I can tell, the blazon does not state this, and some of the images shown on FOTW seem to suggest otherwise, in particular the image of the arms a province near Avignon. Any help would be great. Valentinian T / C 19:16, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Vatacan shows two different images (one of them from FOTW and the flag from a FOTW member). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Both of those have the keys backwards don't they (EG. That's the Vatican CoA and not the HS's)? 68.39.174.238 21:07, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the same page I cited, it is the arms for both the HS and the Vatican. I noticed the Pope's arms have the keys crossed. I am also confused. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:11, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coat of arms of the Holy See (positioning of the cord?) 

message: Flag of the Republic of China has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag of the Republic of China FAR

message: Folks, will someone please weigh in at Talk:Coats of arms of Asia, and also help improve the article? How do you folks deal with image deletionists? Chris 14:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I side with Durin here; on a sidebar note, most of the images of these arms will be deleted from the Commons. The reason is that the source of the images, Vector Images.com, is no longer considered free enough to use on the Commons. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: image deletionists

message: I created a Commons gallery for maritime flags at commons:Maritime flags. I should be an improvement of the current one at gallery of maritime flags: first, it contains more vexillogical symbols. Second, I have split off the section for Flags with nautical designs to its own gallery at commons:Flags with nautical designs, which IMHO makes more sense. Please check for accuracy! --Himasaram 09:31, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maritime flags gallery 

message: Flag of Hong Kong has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:05, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag of Hong Kong FAR 

message: Hey all! I just re-created this article adding some new sources. It was AfD-ed a couple months ago because people said it was not notable. If you have any other information to add, please do. Also, if you want to check out their Dragonlore journal, you can on their website. Thanks.--Eva bd 21:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[College of Dracology]]

message: I'm just leaving a note here in case anyone was interested in helping improve our coverage of a small heraldic battle being played out in North Hertfordshire. Two corporate bodies are arguing over who has the right to the coat of arms granted to a now-defunct local government authority. I partially reverted content added by an anon which came down heavily on one side, and left a note at Talk:Letchworth#The_coat_of_arms explaining why I had done so. If I have made any mistakes about my understanding of the laws of heraldry here, I'd appreciate someone adding some clarification. Marnanel 23:01, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arms of Letchworth UDC, Letchworth Town Council, Letchworth GC Corporation, Letchworth Heritage Foundation, Old Uncle Tom Cobbley and all 

message: I'd like the opinion of the project on the correct name for this article. It was "European flag" and has been changed to "Flag of Europe" as that is the formation of other pages. However that position isn't exactly official. I'd like to see a change to Flag of the European Union, as that is the org. most associated with it. However it was created and still used by the Council of Europe and seen as a flag for Europe as a whole. I'd be interested to hear your opinions as you deal with flags the most, of course. If you have thoughts on this, please post them here. Thanks. - J Logan t: 16:49, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Flag of Europe]] 

message: The writer, who is quite good with flags, momentarily thought that the Vanuatu flag was the South African flag.  See below, they have similarities.
 - Vanuatu
 - South Africa
Conferences or sports events sometimes display the wrong flag, or play wrong national anthem, confusing say Austria with Australia. 
This could be basis for new article?
Recent story. Some fishing poachers from Vietnam hoped to disquise themselves by displaying Malaysia flag.  Unfortunately they displayed it upside down and were easily noticed. (or visa versa). Fishy Story
 - Malaysia - do not have upside down flag icon.
 - Indonesia
 - Indonesia upside down (.pl)
=== Name for article on flag mixups ===
Suggestions needed:  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tabletop (talk • contribs). 
* List of flag misinterpretations
* Misflaggings ( akin to misspellings )
* both List of flag misinterpretations & Misflaggings with redirections.
Tabletop 11:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Such a page has already been created:  Gallery of confusable flags, part of the Gallery of flags by design.  Not that it couldn't be improved, perhaps by a discussion of incidents of actual flag confusion such as you've mentioned.  As it stands, it lists all sorts of potential flag confusions, though where to draw the line and say "those two couldn't be confused!" is a difficult judgment. --ScottMainwaring 17:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar flags and how to prevent mixups 

message: Suggestions needed:  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tabletop (talk • contribs). 
* List of flag misinterpretations
* Misflaggings ( akin to misspellings )
* both List of flag misinterpretations & Misflaggings with redirections.
Tabletop 11:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Such a page has already been created:  Gallery of confusable flags, part of the Gallery of flags by design.  Not that it couldn't be improved, perhaps by a discussion of incidents of actual flag confusion such as you've mentioned.  As it stands, it lists all sorts of potential flag confusions, though where to draw the line and say "those two couldn't be confused!" is a difficult judgment. --ScottMainwaring 17:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name for article on flag mixups 

message: Does one
* first post a request to join in the talk page?
* post a sample contribution on the talk page as initiation?
* just add one's hame anywhere on the list of members on the project page?
* just add one's name to the bottom of the list of members?
* just add one's name in alphabetical order on the list of members?
Just asking!    Tabletop 13:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You just add your name to the list of members, and that's it. I think the table used to be in alphabetical order, but it seems like it needs a little house cleaning at the moment. And welcome to WP:HV. Valentinian T / C 15:28, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Becoming a member of this Wikiproject? 

message: I just nominated a flag at Featured picture candidates .Bewareofdog 01:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured picture candidates 

message: Hi there, hopefully I've chosen a good place to bring this up... I was looking at the Coat of arms of Fiji article the other day, where it described two warriors and an outrigger canoe as "all proper". After furrowing my brow in a vain attempt to understand the situation, I tried looking around Wikipedia to figure out what "proper" meant in this context. I only managed to find a very brief mention of "proper", in passing, in the heraldry article. Judging by this site (where I finally got my question answered), "proper" is an important enough term to merit an article (or at least its own section in another article, with Proper (heraldry) being a redirect to it). I was about to create a stub for Proper (Heraldry), but wasn't quite Bold enough, so I decided to put it before a crowd who's in a better position to decide than I am. Cheers! --Fried Gold 17:47, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is already a section about "proper" on the article for Tincture (heraldry). --EncycloPetey 18:09, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I added a link to that section from the proper disambiguation page. --Fried Gold 21:33, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested new article: [[Proper (heraldry)]] 

message: Could someone with a knowledge of terminology pse look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauffen.  A description of the coat of arms of the town has been translated from the German.  The translated description is correct in lay terms but, in order for the entry to be assessed to a Class B, the description needs to be redrafted.  Assistance would be greatly appreciated.Mikeo1938 08:00, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lauffen am Neckar 

message: Hello there,
A straw poll has opened at this section of the United Kingdom talk page regarding the use of the Ulster Banner for that article's circumstances only. To capture a representative result as possible, you are invited to pass your opinion there. If joining the poll, please keep a cool head, and remain civil. Hope to see you there, Jza84 22:55, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ulster Banner]] straw poll 

message: The title of that article should be changed. There is no evidence that any or all of the flags listed therein were inspired by the Turkish flag ! The fact that they also bear the star and crescent symbol, or variations thereof, does not signify by itself an "inspiration". The star and crescent is a universal symbol of the islamic faith, and not exclusively of a Turkic identity or the Turkish republic. No modern flag which bears, for example, the symbol of the cross can claim to be the "inspiration" for Western flags. (To drive this point home, it would be evidently arbitrary to ascribe any notion of "inspiration from the Turkish flag" to the creators of the  flag of the republic of Terengganu or the state of South Carolina.) I move to change the title to something more accurate such as Flags similar to the flag of Turkey, as is, for example, the eponymous chapter in the entry Flags of the United States. (Tellingly, there is no claim in the relevant Wiki entry that every flag with stars and/or stripes on it has been inspired by the U.S. flag! They are all simply similar -- with a few, strictly documented exceptions.)  The Gnome 12:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "National flags inspired by the flag of Turkey" 

message: I need help trying to find a reference for coats of arms of states of the Holy Roman Empire for the article Armorial of the Holy Roman Empire.  So far, I've found an old book of princes' coats of arms, but it doesn't help me much.  It has nice pictures, but it doesn't say what states are represented by which set of arms.  What I would like is something that lists the arms of the states themselves.  -- I. Pankonin (t/c) 05:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference needed 

message: See Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Gallery_of_flags_with_crosses.  Members of this project with opinions one way or the other on what kind of flag articles are to be allowed on Wikipedia may have an interest in this debate. --ScottMainwaring 22:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are flag lists in "gallery" format "encyclopedic"? 

message: The article Heraldry of Berne discusses the city's coat of arms. It also mentions the flag of Berne which, like all Swiss flags, is just the CoA presented as a square. Therefore, I believe this page should be renamed to Coat of arms of Berne, just like all other such articles. Unfortunately, there is a redirect in place preventing me from making the move. Could an admin please look into this? Thanks. - 52 Pickup (talk) 09:10, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move request 

message: * The design with the puzzle piece and flag is good. Are we tied to the gold-red-gold color scheme? Gimmetrow 01:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not tied to it, but if we want a flag with a single color, yellow is about the only one that doesn't represent something that we don't want to represent.  -- I. Pankonin (t/c) 02:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbitrary section break

message: I have expanded Heraldic standard, which focused predominantly on Scottish practice. Now I wonder if the various types of flags should be moved to a new survey article Heraldic flag with links to a separate detailed article on Heraldic standard?  I am happy to do the work, but I don't want to make that move without consulting others, since I am new to this project.
We also need to add continental practice.
- PKM 22:17, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: User:I. Pankonin had made the move; I will cleanup per comments at Talk:Heraldic flag. - PKM 03:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Heraldic flags

message: Not exactly heraldry and vexillology, but I suspect that someone from this project could do a better job than I of identifying some of the elements in the terracotta of Seattle's former Crystal Pool. See :Commons:Category:Crystal Pool (Seattle). No need to get back to me, just edit the descriptions accordingly on Commons. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:11, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like torches to me. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some identifications requested 

message: Someone has been replacing the flag of the Austrian Empire, and so far no sources supporting these changes has been presented by the editor. There has also been a large number of edits to articles on battles where the flagicon template in the infobox has been substituted with a direct link to the new image like in Battle of Paris (1814). If the changes are indeed correct, wouldn't it be better to implement this with an appropriate Country data template and retain flagicon over the direct link? Is there someone that can look in to the edits? -- Domino theory (talk) 17:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An imperial or royal banner of arms is not the same thing as a national flag and should not be labeled as such. As for flag icons, I'm generally not in favor of them, but I would particularly advise not to use any banners or standrads as flag icons for periods before the adoption of a national flag. — Kpalion(talk) 18:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This someone was right to replace the flag, because this was not the flag of the Austrian empire. Until 1806, an Austrian emperor did not exist. There only was the emperor of the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation". In the last centuries of it's existence, usually, the emperor was the head of the house of Habsburg, the rulers of Austria. When the empire ceased to exist, the former emperor now called himself emperor of Austria. This empire had a new flag, while the old coat of arms/flag since 1813 was used by the German confederation, where Austria was a member too. The Austrian state flag looked like the banner without the border. The national Flag was this . Therefore the new flag could be better, but the original flag was wrong.--Thw1309 (talk) 12:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag of the Austrian Empire 

message: Hello, friends. I came across the article cabossed today via the wonders of the Random Article button, and it occurs to me that it sounds a lot like kibosh, as in "to put the kibosh on someone/something". And, it has a fairly similar meaning, that is, to cut off the head of a creature. Coincidence? Etymological relations? Guesses? Thoughts? Domo. Cheers. LordAmeth (talk) 12:08, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cabossed = Kibosh? 

message: There are a couple of articles about Australian schools which refer to a device the school uses as a crest. (In Mentone Girls' Grammar School it looks like a shield, in Meriden School like a roundel.)
:Image:Mentone Girls Grammar crest col large.gif :Image:MeridenCrest.gif
Since neither of these is a crest, I modified them to "arms" and "logo" respectively. Another editor reverted the change on the grounds that the schools in question refer to their symbols as "crests".
I think that in this case "crest" is a term of art and therefore we should use less precise terms for things which aren't crests. What do you people think? Marnanel (talk) 18:22, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably it would be best to explain to the reader that although technically a coat of arms or a logo, the symbol is officially referred to by the school as a "crest". — Kpalion(talk) 19:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The second image is a new logo, but thinking copyright wise, do we have a good source for the designer of the first insignia and the heraldic artist? Valentinian T / C 13:02, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Crest" used as a term of art 

message: Many of the proposals of the project's coat of arms show a three dimensional shield. Don't misunderstand me. As you can see here, I like to do them too, so I don't have a problem, but "official" German heraldry does not allow three dimensional painting or light reflexes on the shield itself. I would like to know: Are such things allowed in other national rules of heraldry?--Thw1309 (talk) 12:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that in English heraldry, at least, charges are meant to be shown three dimensionally. If they are added to the shield, then they should be shown with shadows and what-not. Line divisions are not shown in relief.--Eva bd 14:58, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  third dimension 

message: I think we should change the scope statement on the page to include flag and COA images on any article.  There are a lot of articles in :Category:Heraldry and vexillology articles needing images that haven't been tagged with the WPHV template, because there are a lot of other talk page templates with "coatneed" and "flagneeded" parameters that put articles in that category.  -- I. Pankonin (t/c) 08:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a good idea for project members to help with needed images, but I don't see that tagging any article that contains a coat of arms or flag image with the template would help anyone. JPD (talk) 11:22, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That wasn't what I wanted to suggest.  All I'm suggesting is changing the text in the "scope" section at the top of Wikipedia:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology to include all flag and COA images, regardless of whether or not they're in a heraldry or vexillology article.  I'm not suggesting tagging anything more than we already do, and I don't think that it will create more work for us either.  Many of the posts on this page are about images, not articles.  -- I. Pankonin (t/c) 06:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, we need to update the category anyways, since I have seen articles in there that now have images. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope 

message: I have created an attribution template  which reads:
Also, we don't seem to have an article on Charles Boutell. - PKM (talk) 18:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Would it be appropriate to put a link to the book on Project Gutenberg?  -- I. Pankonin (t/c) 23:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can do that! - PKM (talk) 18:00, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fox-Davies died in 1928 and Boutell died in 1877, so the book must also be PD in both Britain and all countries operating with the 70 years p.m.a. rule. I couldn't find any actual information about the illustrator, R.B. Utting, but he is mentioned in connection with an edition from 1867, so it seems fair to assume that he too, died before 1937. Valentinian T / C 23:09, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Boutell template

message: For the last few months I've been working on Flag of Germany. In July it looked like this and now 
it looks like this. In working on this article, I've drawn on a number of articles that can now possibly be merged into this one (see various mergefrom requests now in the article) plus a number of articles from the German wiki, and a few other sources, while at the same time trying to provide as many supporting references as possible. I am very interested in getting this article up to GA (or even FA?) standard so I would appreciate it if people could proofread it and/or expand/clarify any points that may need attention. After working on this for the last few months, I'd really really need some fresh eyes on this article. Thanks - 52 Pickup (talk) 21:01, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag of Germany - help needed