Talk:Camille Paglia

message: Well, for a start she is recognised as being a feminist! An activist user FreeKnowledgeCreator has been working hard to ensure she is not presented as such and reverted my incliusion of this label without offering any proof that she is not one. Could I ask all users who are interesting in this page keep an eye on this user, who is using blocking etc to shut down edits that do not conform to a particular view of Paglia. This kind of trolling behaviour goes directly against the spirit of Wikipedia - and that of simply truth. Wikipedia should not be a avenue for radical gender activists to rewrite the facts.Mangonorth (talk) 23:06, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: In the Washington Examiner interview I used as a ref, Paglia says "Although I describe myself as transgender (I was donning flamboyant male costumes from early childhood on), I am highly skeptical about the current transgender wave." Google Paglia transgender and you will find multiple other reliable sources including the Atlantic and Wall Street Journal that also say Paglia is transgender. Paglia can both criticize trans comments and be trans; that is how Paglia describes herself. Wikipedia is based off reliable sources and they also note Paglia as trans. Also please don't make assumptions about other editors politics and in general assume good faith, see WP:NPA. Rab V (talk) 17:53, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: She identifies clearly as transgender, reliable sources mention she identifies as transgender, and that's all the article says. Wikipedia works off reliable sources and since they note she identifies as transgender its not up to us to decide about whether or not she can be transgender and also a gay woman. Rab V (talk) 23:06, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Who is Camille Pagiia?

message: Ms. Paglia has identified herself as transgender. See the CBC News interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69rgLvitaYM
In the video, at 9:12, she quite clearly states that she "considers herself transgender" and that she has "never identified at all with being a woman." 
Pretty important revelation. Should this be added to the article?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.55.129.125 (talk) 03:57, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Her comments regarding transgenderism in this article  might be illuminating to this issue. Activist (talk) 07:52, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: She also explicitly says "I identify as transgender" in her interview with Jordan Peterson. (Apparently youtube.com is a blacklisted site for whatever dumb reason (it's been a while since I contributed to WP, so this was pretty shocking to me...) but you can find it on YouTube. The title is "Modern Times: Camille Paglia & Jordan B Peterson" published on a channel named "Jordan B Peterson") at 35:33 in the video. —Memotype::T 23:11, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

text: I am removing this for reasons of WP:BLP. Common sense should apply here. Paglia is a provocative person who has said a lot of things about herself and others, some of which no doubt are not meant to be taken literally. I suspect her comments about being transgender are an example of this. It is not clear that she means it in a literal sense and she may not understand the term in the same way that other people would. If you insist on including this in the article at all, then you should include it in the form of a direct quotation from her, to be completely sure that you are avoiding any misrepresentation. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 22:36, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The section merely repeats that she herself has claimed to be transgender and does, in fact, cite specific quotes. I see no reason this should be left out of the article since it's something she has claimed multiple times and over a significant time span. It's clearly not just something she just whimsically went off about as some kind of joke or parody. I'm restoring the sections as I don't see how WP:BLP in any way invalidates this section. (Edit: If you want to add sources that have criticized her for saying this, that would be nice as well) —Memotype::T 13:48, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

text: Thanks, Memotype. I agree, I don't see what BLP has to do with this. I'm also not sure what evidence beyond what has already been provided would be sufficient to convince FreeKnowledgeCreator. cagliost (talk) 14:53, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

text: Agreed, Cagliost. Paglia's own statements will do. The issue some may have with Paglia's claims go to the heart of a contradiction in the Trans movement agenda: if we completely divorce gender from biology - anyone can identify as transgender. And that can be dangerous if these self-identifying people dissent accepted trans dogma. According to the 'new rules' of gender, Paglia does not need to be actually physiologically intersex to make claims to being transgender, for it's all a "social construct". As to whether she is 'genuinely trans' will ruffle feathers, but she is free to make her claim. It is possible that people who disagree with her opinions will only pleased when she stops talking. Mangonorth (talk) 05:28, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

text: No. She thinks transgenderism is destroying the US, and frequently cites Rome, etc as an example of gender dysphoria as a sign of a collapsing society. She is trolling people to make a point of how ridiculous science becomes when you elevate soft science above hard science. 2600:6C5E:6600:903:DC2B:DC3F:7F90:83A8 (talk) 18:16, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transgender 

message: The paragraph (in the Education section) about Paglia and Susan Sontag's speech at Bennington seems much too long. It occurred on one day, forty five years ago. Why is it even in the article at all?Browntable (talk) 15:48, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The article asserts that she was born in 1947. This statement seems to be too short. Her birth occurred on one day, seventy-one years ago. Why is it even in the article at all?173.61.223.45 (talk) 17:33, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Susan Sontag 

message: Let's start looking. Will add whenever find:
* unorthodox, libertarian feminist 
* Paglia, for instance, has been called 'post-feminist' for openly criticizing aspects of second-wave femininism, yet never claimed to be post-feminist and rejects claims she is 'antifeminist,' arguing instead that she is 'a feminist who  wants to radically reform current feminism' (Paglia 1992a, 56).
* "Camille Paglia has been called the "anti-feminist feminist" for decades but she's not one to back down." Modern feminism needs to 'stop blaming men,' says Camille Paglia Axylus.arisbe (talk) 00:56, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no reason for the lead to state that Paglia has been described as an "anti-feminist feminist". Your edit was inappropriate in terms of WP:NPOV and WP:LEAD. Like any number of public figures, Paglia gets described as many things. It is utterly unreasonable to simply pick one of them (because you like it, perhaps) and slap it in the lead. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 01:40, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

text: * Knock knock. I know what WP:LEAD and WP:NPOV and other policies and guidelines and essays say. Been here a while. Off and on, ten years. And if sources say she's a(n) [anti-feminist, new, power, libertarian] feminist, then that's what Wikipedia says. You seem to be in the difficult position of arguing with WP:RS. Oh, and I didn't "just pick one and slap it in the lead". I am researching the option of including that and/or several others.  Axylus.arisbe (talk) 03:08, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If you know what they say then you should have known better than to make such a foolish edit. It makes no sense to say "if sources say she's a(n) [anti-feminist, new, power, libertarian] feminist, then that's what Wikipedia says". The sources contradict each other and are of varying degrees of reliability and quality, so of course we don't and can't repeat all their views as fact. We mention their opinions about such issues when they are of sufficient relevance to be mentioned at all and we present them as opinion. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 05:22, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: "Sources contradict each other and are of varying quality..." That's exactly why I didn't revert you, and exactly why I am looking into this question. Let you know when I'm done. BTW, the question of whether or not she identifies as a feminist, and of what type, and who agrees or disagrees, is obviously of huge importance to this article. And BTW #2, my edits aren't "foolish". I may be wrong sometimes, but I ain't dumb. Cheers. Axylus.arisbe (talk) 05:33, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edit was this. It was an obvious violation of MOS:LEAD. The lead summarizes the most important points of the article. The material you added there clearly is not one of the most important points of the article. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 05:36, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:   "anti-feminist feminist" and/or "dissident feminist" or similar 

message: How many copies has she actually sold? I can't find it anywhere on the internet, came here to wikipedia expecting to see it and can't find it here either. I'm especially interested in Sexual Personae - how does it stack up in terms of popular intellectualism? CoronaryKea (talk) 10:54, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many copies has Paglia actually sold? 

message: They have these newfangled things called Google and Google scholar. You can find 'self-described libertarian feminist" ,  and many other similar turns of phrase. She described herself thus in Free Women, Free Men, according to this new thing called Google Books. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 21:56, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: After watching her interviews with Jordan Peterson & with the Reason-described Lou Reed of Reason, libertarian feminist, or capitalist feminist, or even conservative feminist, wouldn't seem out of place.   Katherine Maher might prefer equity feminist.  There is a posted recording of her Seattle Public Library lecture titled "Camille Paglia Equity Feminism" (here). She even fluently cited one of pataphyicist Baudrillard's titillating titles ("Forget Foucault") en passant. ^^ Thanks, Harambe!  ♦   SashiRolls  t ·   c 17:03, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Libertarian feminist 

message: Should the petition to have P removed from the faculty at UArts be mentioned?  https://www.thecollegefix.com/students-demand-controversial-prof-be-replaced-by-queer-person-of-color/  5.34.87.153 (talk) 03:59, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we're not permitted  to call her feminist in this article. Since suppression of facts seems to be the order of the day... ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 05:11, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding the feminist definition, I have reverted a couple of attempts to define Paglia as feminist within the lead section, but only because they were unsourced or improperly sourced - I'm not aware of the definition being disallowed. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:21, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

text: I once posted a thread on this talkpage listing a handful of sources (above, username axylus.arisbe). And if I posted it on the article, you can bet I sourced it well. Arguments that she is not a feminist are all No true Scotsman. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 07:55, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead is rather short and I think it would be helpful to expand it generally, including mention of Paglia's feminism, and her relationship to other strands within it. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:17, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: . I'll start a timer to see how long it takes before you are reverted. Cheers. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 09:40, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Student petition 

message: She has admitted to sleeping with men and in her interview with Bill Mahers she stated she was Bisexual Nlivataye (talk) 19:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bisexual 

message: Since the cancellation attempt, she has really disappeared. Almost nothing from her recently can be found online, nothing on YouTube. What's going on with her?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.252.4.21 (talk) 14:08, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is Camille Paglia?