Talk:Protest Warrior/Archive 12

message: I am going to move this mediation onto its case page because it is clear that I am not going to get anywhere here. I'd appreciate it if all parties answered the question templates that I have left for them here. Thank you. —Xyrael / 10:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mediation 

message: I added the Crawford incident back in, with  CBS sourcing. Did that 'operation' have one of those trademark clever and patriotic-sounding PW names? If so, I can't seem to find it! Will one of you guys ask Kfir? He doesn't reply to my queries for info, nor requests to show up here and affirm that he's still actively involved with PW!
Thanks!
NBGPWS 06:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added the 'crawford incident' back in 

message: I added this link. Good article from 'The American Reporter' Seems to be available through Google Cache only.
*Always There: The Voice of a Gold Star Mother 
NBGPWS 01:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added new external link 

message: From the article:
The group maintains a website as an organizing and information hub. It also acts as a source for the many slogans and signs presented by Protest Warriors at protests, <B>as well as offering various tutorials on sign creation.</B>
Could one of you PW's provide the links to the  'various tutorials on sign creation' ? I couln't find 'em.
Thanks
NBGPWS 22:47, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why certainly.  --Neverborn 23:52, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why, thank you Neverborn! Where on the site is the link to that PDF? I still couldn't find it! Much obliged, NB ! NBGPWS 00:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a link accessible after you log into the site at . --Neverborn 04:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahhhh - that's why I couldn't find it. So you have to join PW 'headquarters' and be approved for membership to access that link, unless you know the URL? That link isn't even viewable to the general public from the public PW site? If that's the case, I'm not sure it should be mentioned without that important caveat. I'd like Vpoko to weigh in on that. Furthermore, 'various tutorials' leads one to believe that there are several tutorials. There's only one? There were 'various' (several) tutorials at one time, and now they're all gone but one? Please explain. Thanks NBGPWS 05:48, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have a severe case of apathy about this article, I'm moving on. Vpoko 16:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Your apathy is understandable. Thanks for the help and counsel that you did provide. NBGPWS 18:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Sign Creation Tutorials' 

message: Good addition, Neverborn - but  you're conflating two events into one. 
:*On September 24, 2005, Protest Warrior, along with other organizations supporting the Iraq war such as Move America Forward and RightMarch, counterprotested against a national protest coordinated by International ANSWER, United for Peace and Justice, and Cindy Sheehan. Protest Warrior's crowd drew about 400 people, including members of the armed forces as well as "Gold Star" families of military members who died in Iraq. Organizers of the counterprotest had hoped for far larger attendance numbering into the thousands.   
The first two links document the MAF/RM/PW protests on Saturday Sept 24 (crowd 100-200), the third link Free Republic's protest on Sunday - the one which drew approx 400. This one: "We are preparing for as many as 20,000 people, just to be on the safe side," said Kristinn Taylor, a leader of FreeRepublic.com, one of the sponsors." It's also improper to call it 'Protest Warrior's Crowd' when PW was only one of three orgs sponsoring the demonstration. Also, did PW secure a permit, or were you protesting on the permit of MAF or RM? Will you post a new corrected version for discussion here, or would you like me to?  NBGPWS 18:13, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: PW was a part of all the events - from FR's support at the Hospital Friday, to the protests Saturday, to the rally Sunday. It was "Support Our Troops and Their Mission Weekend." The permit along the protest march route was secured by PW, and the permit for Sunday was Free Republic, I believe. I'll edit some more later, but it's time to eat Subway now. --Neverborn 18:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That may be the case, but the third link - for FR's rally on Sunday - doesn't even mention Protest Warrior at ALL, so I am mystified as to why you would include it, and even more mystified as to why you would use the crowd estimate of 400 to describe the PW protest - that number being taken from the article which  didn't mention PW. Enjoy your lunch. By the way... Quizno's kicks Subway's butt! NBGPWS 19:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it shouldn't be called "Protest Warrior's" crowd based on the cited source but rather a notable event in which protest warriors participated.  However, in that light, both the the third link and the 400 count reference make perfect sense. Lawyer2b 22:07, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I disagree.  The MSN link describes the event the protest warriors particpated in regardless of whether it specifically mentions them by name.  The link supports the description that the event drew 400 people and is appropriate for inclusion. Lawyer2b 22:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  So far, you have no verifiable, reliable,  third-party source stating that PW"s were at the FR event on Sunday. Even if you had photos and accounts on a blog or PW itself, of PW's being there, you couldn't assert that unless an acceptable third-party source said that they were present. NBGPWS 23:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm confused.  Assuming we're talking about the "past operation" that is mentioned to have occurred on September 24, 2005, I don't believe the sources cited identify it as being a one-organization (Free Republic or Protest Warrior) event.  I disagree again when you say that there is "no verifiable, reliable,  third-party source stating that PW"s were" at the event on Sunday.  This Washington Post article (cited in the wikipedia article) states "members of such organizations as Move America Forward and RightMarch.com and Protest Warrior" were there. User:NBGPWS, are we talking about the same event? Lawyer2b 23:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Unfortunately, your numbers don't match the ones in the article because the citations' numbers change if any are added or deleted to the entire thing.  Could you post the actual links to the sources instead of just their numbers?  That would make it much easier for me to see what you are talking about.  Thanks.  :-) Lawyer2b 00:03, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: After checking the sources in the article, I think I see the problem.  I wasn't aware that there were two different counterprotesting events.  One apparently took place on Saturday, September 24, 2005 and the second took place the next day, Sunday, September 25, 2005.  User:NBGPWS is correct that, at present, there is no reliable source cited that Protest Warriors took part in the Sunday event, only the Saturday one. Lawyer2b 00:10, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes sir - that  is exactly right. Sort of. The 2nd event on Sunday was a FR sponsored pro war rally, so if PW's were there - they were there in support of FR and the war, not in their typical role of counterprotesting. NBGPWS 00:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Changed last line to 'also demonstrated in support of the war and troops'. Better, huh? NBGPWS 08:36, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good to me.  If someone finds an RS regarding the next day demonstration we can just add that back in.  :-) Lawyer2b 12:46, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sept 24 Counterprotests 

message: ::I think it's time we archived this section, which has become quite lengthy. Ruthfulbarbarity 19:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive