Talk:Michael Cherney

message: * Wikileaks - US diplomatic cable 05SOFIA1207 from Sofia: James W. Pardew, Ambassador to the United States in Bulgaria at the time, mentions Mr. Cherney in a cable| Bulgarian Organized Crime C-CN5-00054Wikileaks created 7 July 2005, released 7 December 2010 briefing the department of Homeland Security on organized crime in Bulgaria.
* Wikileaks - US diplomatic cable 09MADRID869 from Madrid: "15. (C) Madrid in recent months also has sought the arrest of Michael Cherney, a Russian-born, Israeli citizen for whom Spain’s National Court has issued an international arrest warrant that accuses him of money laundering and illicit association in connection with Op Avispa. Cherney (aka Mikhail Chernoy) reportedly owns several companies in Spain that the Avispa defendants used to help launder money. Center-right El Mundo on July 6, 2009 published a highly detailed account of the GOS’s fruitless efforts to have British authorities arrest Cherney during a visit to London in late May. Post’s LEGAT Section confirms the basis of the article. CHACON" --spitzl (talk) 02:10, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  list of additional sources 

message: ===NPOV/ Removal of negative references===
Any negative (and well-sourced) remarks are being constantly removed from the page by various users. Not really in line with wikipedia ethics.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by D066c4 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "academic working in the field of Russian Organised Crime" - Please show us any factual evidence of Michael Cherney being involved in organized crime. Anyone can file false police charges. Has any court convicted Cherney of "organized crime" offenses? From my research, not one court has ever found Cherney guilty of any crime. Mhltv 18:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I think this issue has been resolved by now.--spitzl (talk) 06:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

text: I am adding a warning to that effect on the article page. This is one of several issues with this article. It should be much better than it is. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 04:43, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PR complaints 

message: Any negative (and well-sourced) remarks are being constantly removed from the page by various users. Not really in line with wikipedia ethics.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by D066c4 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "academic working in the field of Russian Organised Crime" - Please show us any factual evidence of Michael Cherney being involved in organized crime. Anyone can file false police charges. Has any court convicted Cherney of "organized crime" offenses? From my research, not one court has ever found Cherney guilty of any crime. Mhltv 18:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I think this issue has been resolved by now.--spitzl (talk) 06:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: '''NPOV/ Removal of negative references'''

message: the aluminium market in russia was the most violent branche in russias economy in the nineties. the article only says that "people were envious" and so on. but that's pretty much oversimplificating things and it hurts during reading.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.192.118.121 (talk) 21:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  the article has the style of an authorized biography 

message: the nature of this article is such that every substantial assertion must be individually sourced, instead of relying on the general articles listed at the bottom. Otherwise the appropriate course of action is to stubbify the article, or those parts of it which cannot be sourced. The reader should not have to search for the information in the general references. DGG 03:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am adding a warning to that effect on the article page. This is one of several issues with this article. It should be much better than it is. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 04:43, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: BLP

message: I removed the linkless tag as several pages link here, I did a bunch of wiki links in the text, set up a reference section, and built the first reference tag using the format   I am not an expert in the field so just got started formating stuff. I am not watching this page I just stumbled across it. Edit away and have a good day.  Jeepday 00:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: clean up

message: I reverted two edits by Moscowrussia. The first was a straight copy from the source, which is an impermissble copyright violation. The second was a report on a conversation in Israel. Putting aside that the addition was poorly worded, there was nothing to make the conversation notable to warrant inclusion. I reverted the first and the second edits. Moscowrussia reverted my first reversion (labeling it "vandalism" - I left a warning on his Talk page about the use of the word "vandalism"). I have restored the article to before both edits. Not sure how long that will stick.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Moscowrussia re-added the material and I have reverted it again, for somewhat different reasons. One assertion was sourced to Izrus, a Russian-language web site which has been criticized in the Israeli press for being an "attack" site controlled by Avigdor Lieberman. The other assertion was from PR Newswire, a press release site. Neither of these would seem to be a reliable source for tendentious assertions about living peolle. I will be posting something on the reliable source noticeboard in a few minutes to get a second opinion and more eyes on this.Jonathanwallace (talk) 13:56, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: PRNewswire is a reliable source which is used by thousands of news media on a daily basis since 1954. Please note PRNewswire Wiki article. Izrus is a news site based in Israel which has been granted credentials by the Israel Government Press Office. That these two sources and content to Michael Cherney's article were deleted constitutes vandalism. I have posted on the reliable source noticeboardseeking objective assistance. moscowrussia  —Preceding undated comment added 16:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I answered you on the WP:RSN noticeboard--lets take it there for now so as not to duplicate effort. Government credentialling by the way dsoes not guarantee reliability--there are organizations whioh have White House press credentials not considered relaible here.Jonathanwallace (talk) 17:08, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: User:Moscowrussia, a single purpose account whose only interest at Wikipedia is this article and the Oleg Deripaska article, has returned from a block and then a long period of inactivity to edit the article. What he's doing is removing negative information from the article that is properly sourced and inserting unsourced information. I have reverted him and warned him on his Talk page, but, other than posting a warning on my Talk page, he continues to insist on his edits. This is a contentious article that has previously been locked for edit-warring over content. So, what I intend to do is to revert one more time, refer him to here, post another warning on Moscowrussia's Talk page and take this issue to WP:BLPN.
The negative information he is removing has to do with information about Cherney's business holdings in Bulgaria and Bulgaria's expulsion of Cherney from their country. The material is sourced to the NYT. The unsourced information Moscowrussia is adding has to do with Cherney's brother Lev and Deripaska. For all I know, it may be accurate, but Moscowrussia has provided no inline cites for it.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  In the interests of avoiding libel, please allow the reporting of the Jerusalem Post and avoid an edit war. We are quoting the Jerusaelm Post, not Cherney. I will do my best to find a link which directly goes to the Swiss Court decision. I agree that this would constitute a stronger asset. Moscowrussia (talk) 17:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid I had to revert you edit. It was not the Jerusalem Post that made that statement but Cherney's spokesperson. The later is not a reliable source. Of course it would be ok though to include the original Swiss Court decision.--spitzl (talk) 18:17, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on what I stated earlier, I agree with your reversion. However, a cite to the Swiss decision would be impermissible per WP:BLPPRIMARY.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:59, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent changes to article 

message: After about a week of leaving the article alone, Moscowrussia is again making problematic changes to the article. He wants to add three things. The first is the following: (sourced to ()
This Post does NOT support this material. The Post is reporting ONLY on what Cherney said, not what actually happened.
The other two things are suits Cherney has filed, one in 2006, and one in 2008, both in part directed against Oleg Deripaska. First, these are both just suits with no adjudication. Second, they are outdated because they rely on reports from years ago with no indication on what has happened since. Third, the two suits are mixed up in the two references with different information appearing in each, and the material in our article isn't supported clearly by the two sources. Particularly, the paragraph about the February 2008 suit in Tel Aviv isn't supported at all. Only the last sentence of that paragraph is related to the source. The whole thing is a BLP mess.
I'm going to revert, and Moscow is going to have to come here to justify the changes to the article.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:16, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  In the interests of avoiding libel, please allow the reporting of the Jerusalem Post and avoid an edit war. We are quoting the Jerusaelm Post, not Cherney. I will do my best to find a link which directly goes to the Swiss Court decision. I agree that this would constitute a stronger asset. Moscowrussia (talk) 17:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid I had to revert you edit. It was not the Jerusalem Post that made that statement but Cherney's spokesperson. The later is not a reliable source. Of course it would be ok though to include the original Swiss Court decision.--spitzl (talk) 18:17, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on what I stated earlier, I agree with your reversion. However, a cite to the Swiss decision would be impermissible per WP:BLPPRIMARY.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:59, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: More problems

message: ===Yaakov Weinroth===
 In December 2009 an indictment was issued by prosecutors in Tel Aviv against Yehoshua Vita, a former senior Tax Authority official, and Yaakov Weinroth, Cherney’s attorney.Indictments Filed Against Senior Attorney, Tax Official - Israel National News, 31 December, 2009Top lawyer charged with accepting bribe, money laundering - Jerusalem Post, 31 December, 2009	 
 According to the indictment, Weinroth made a number of payments to Vita, and in exchange Vita provided favours for Weinroth’s clients, including Cherney and Arkady Gaydamak. Vita was charged with accepting bribes from Weinroth, who in turn was charged with money laundering and making illegal payments to Vita. During a hearing at the Tel Aviv District Court in January 2010, it was alleged that Vita allowed tax breaks on $2 billion for Cherney and $1 billion for Arkady Gaydamak.Yaakov Weinroth, Ex-top tax official deny graft charges - Haaretz, 22 January, 2010''
IMHO the chapter is noteworthy and should be re-included in the article under a different heading. Any other opinions on that? --spitzl (talk) 01:26, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rescuing a chapter dealing with Cherney's attorney 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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