Talk:Grozny

message: How could this guy have been killed in 2000, when he was killed in 2006? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamil_Basayev
No mention Ramzan Kadyrov, or his father ... both significant players in both wars. This article is like fast food.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.228.231.108 (talk) 00:07, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Inaccurate

message: This article is pathetic, for a city probably more ruined than Baghdad. Nomination after seeing a program on BBC last night about it all. I know some of the details on Chechen war etc. are in other articles, but the city (if what remains can be called such) deserves a decent article. Zoney 14:52, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree Zoney and I've just made a mental note to try and expand this some time, although I suspect I'll run into a dearth of information on the place. From pictures I have seen of Grozny it does look like it's been completely laid waste over the years. — Trilobite (Talk) 00:18, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: First of all this article is fair and is balanced, I personally took part in liberating Grozny in 2000 and pieces or not there was a city to liberate. Also most of the population between 1990 and 2000 fled, particulary the indegious Russian minority so fact is thousands or not, most of the buildings were empty when we entered it in spring 2000.--Kuban Cossack 15:53, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Dear Mr anonymous, if the Russian government allocated billions of dollars for Grozny's reconstruction after 1994-1996 (personally I doubt it could have been anywhere near that figure) then it consisted indeed of drunks and imbeciles, because it was the separatist government of Maskhadov and Basaev who pocketed Russian and Saudi money (and yes, they also gave a lot between 1996 and 1999) and did not use it to reconstruct Grozny but to strengthen and export the Islamist revolution. You got the date wrong. (Pan Gerwazy)--pgp 15:29, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Complaint

message: : the city was named after Ivan IV of Russia "The Terrible"
A dubious claim; removed until confirmation. Originally it was a fort, and the name "Grozny", which also means "threatening". was pretty natural. mikka (t) 17:36, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Bullshit confirmed; article updated. mikka (t) 17:52, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Name origin

message: I have added to the article about the history of Russian minority in the city. I would like anyone to tell me, if they know anything about the massacre that took place in 1944, just before the Chechens were deported. Kuban kazak 12:29, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Russian (Terek Cossack) issue

message: Some new photographs of Grozny can be found at mosnews (). Maybye some could be used in this article. --Hardscarf 18:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo's of 2006 

message: Obviously copyrighted and shown only as example. If you want, I can also show you elderly/abandoned Russians leaving the ruined city - on foot, and only with a handful of baggage (in 1995, yes).  --HanzoHattori 08:32, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but that does not show anything, first there is no source and nothing to confirm that it is Gorzny or anyplace else, please provide CREDIBLE and ADEQUEATE SOURCES. --Kuban Cossack  10:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't find the source like that, on demand. These bodies belonged mostly to the abandoned and alienated Russians, because Chechens were either able to shelter at their families in a villages, or had friends and families to properly take care of the bodies in the case of death (and the funerals were taking place even under the bombardment). When the Chechens take care of their bodies they shroud them and store in mosques, and they have to bury them fast according to the religion. Btw, many bodies of a Russians soldiers themselves were without any funeral for years (unidentified ones). The Russians did the similiar thing to the 1995 dumps in 2000 too, for the civilians and combatant Chechens, when they were still giving away enemy bodies without ransom in at least some instances (since 2002 it's the official policy of an unmarked graves). These varied really, from uncovered trenches (including bound-together by wire), to on-ground displays, to only heads sticking off from a temporary grave site. Anyway, the Russian survivors and their "means of transport" (with the landmarks, so you won't say it's not Grozny and not 1995, which was really silly/highly unproper btw):    --HanzoHattori 13:00, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Read what is WP:NOR - NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH. Thus that little tale hold little value, and actually for someone to have fought in the second Chechen war and participated in the seige of Grozny looks rather BSish. --Kuban Cossack  11:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1995 body dumps 

message: Is it important "the Russians slowly entered the empty city", but not explaining  about PAP-1 is not? Covert air operations were conducted since August 1994 (for example, helicopters attacked Grozny airfields on Sep 29 - first official attacks started only on Nov. 29); 4 helicopters and 1 Su-25 were shot down in November. What else? --HanzoHattori 15:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: References! Second why did you remove about the Russian flag, why did you insert unrefrenced tombstone claims but removed the massacre bit, let's go through points together and NOT edit anything except "fact" templates. Removing information is just as bad as adding unrefrenced sources. However, in WP:FAITH I urge you to discuss all of the points, for instance feel free to add things about Railway communications and other points which are not going to be disputed one way or another. --Kuban Cossack  18:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's it? Are you kidding me? Everyone in Chechnya knows and tells visitors about the uprooted tombstones, it's a major source of national trauma.     etc etc. In 1992 symbolically some were made into the deportation memorial, and it's till there, only damaged by war.  They also dynamited many ancient towers in the mountains, and they burned the books.  Ever heard of cultural genocide? The destruction of the past is done to eradicate the memory of those who occupied the land before, much like the revision of history in Orwell's 1984. In Chechnya, the Soviets bulldozed graveyards and used gravestones to pave roads.  "Referenced" now? Russia's UN office, maybe?  --HanzoHattori 21:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hey, so, what's your problem? 

message: Under the "Sports" section, there is no mention of the sport being referenced.  This should be an easy item to fix.24.253.253.251 (talk) 12:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sports Question 

message: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6414603.stm
I remember Kadyrov saying it will be the biggest in Europe. Is it? --HanzoHattori 15:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know? Here is the site about it... http://www.mechet-grozny.com/ and a good LJ that I found via google . --Kuban Cossack 16:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "huge new mosque" 

message: Kuban, remember our old discussion about the large numbers of dead civilians just packed en masse into dug-up holes? Here is a video (a heaps of bodies, dumped into these pits like a rubbish). "Enjoy." --HanzoHattori 22:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, can we stop being personal? By the way, if the buildings are still visible from the air, I suspect that they were not destroyed by bombardments from the air. So, they were destroyed in urban guerilla fighting - and both sides should be blamed for that. It is like the Paris Commune: depending on whether you choose the side of the Communards or the counter insurgence force, you can blame bloody Thiers or bloody commies/anarchists/French nationalists for the destruction of the Paris centre (and the fact that you now have these splendidly wide streets there, of course). HanzoHattori, your refinery is a particularly silly example - why rebuild a refinery when a) if reconstructed it would be a splendid terrorist target anyway b) there is precious little oil to refine in Chechnya, particularly since Azerbaidzhan now exports her oil to Georgia. --Pan Gerwazy 10:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personal - KC can't stop talking about how he was (supposedly, it's Internet) "liberating". Now we only need someone to say he's a former Chechen fighter ("terrorist") who was "liberating" too, but from the Russians, and they two would do the Chechen War on the Internet. First of all, KC should SHUT UP about his alleged biography and personal views, because it just shows he's not at all NPOV (bonus point for being sincere, though). Rafinery - see the rafineries in Iraq, how "silly" was to NOT make them all blackened ruins during the invasion, just to stay there until the Second Coming most probably? How the heck this suddenly became a target even, as it was in the whole of the first war? Really, see Grozny through the Google Maps - by "wiped out by still visible" I meant "erased ground-up, but the fundaments still visible" not the "buildings still visible", and the iconic Minutka Square didn't change much since Feb. 2000 (a sea of ruins, now mostly dynamited rubble where the destroyed blocks were). Are you always blaming aggressors and defenders for the destruction inflicted? You say Paris - why not an example of Sarajevo, or Warsaw in 1939? (much less destruction in both cases, btw - I guess it's comparable to Breslau, except much of destruction there was actually did by the Germans even before the Soviets came, and the defenders there WERE to blame as they razed or even leveled whole city streets and districts as they prepared) --HanzoHattori 17:51, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The ruins: if there is one iconic image of Grozny which is present in everybody's mind it is all those buildings where the only thing undamaged is the roof and practically all the walls are missing. Oh, and I know a Belgian army officer who served as a peace keeper in Yugoslavia (Vukovar) and whose comments on one of these notorious photographs was: "that is not bombing from the air, that is the result of ethnic cleansing" (=defending an area in such a way that every living quarter occupied by the wrong ethnic group gets reduced to rubble). The refinery: of course, it was a legal target as soon as Chechen forces crossed into Dagestan. There was a short period before the Russian army entered Chechnya, when the Russian air force bombed strategic targets in Chechnya, in order to get its government to rein in Basayev. Of course, sharia law having been introduced in Chechnya/Ichkeria, it did not work, and one may call Putin a hypocrite for following this approach, knowing it would not work, but he was on legal ground as secure as the Israeli government bombing Palestine terrorist hideouts outside Palestine. And as for the Americans not bombing Iraqi refineries, I fail to see what else that proves than that Alan Greenspan was right. And as for the personal attacks, two wrongs do not make a right; as I said "can WE stop being personal?" --Pan Gerwazy 08:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually the roof is quite easy to cave in (and the floors) - surely didn't you mean the other way around, only walls standing? Also without walls there would be no roof too. Sharia does not destroy cities (at least unless it's the Mogadishu courts militia, but even their conqest was nothing in comparison with the Ethiopian firepower unleashed later on the insurgent districts). Israeli airstrikes are very, very precise - targeting militia or security, not civilian instalations, and specific vehicles. If Russia hit Basayev's UAZ with a drone-launched missile or whatever, I wouldn't complain. Instead, they hit his Grozny base... along with the adjoining WHOLE marketplace crowded with civilians (even from outside Chechnya) with several ballistic missiles (cluster munitions). Not an isolated incident but the strategy. If the Chechens blew up a marketplace in Moscow to kill few soldiers who were there too, this would be "terrorism", right? --HanzoHattori 14:14, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I give up on the apartments, because you seem not to want to understand me. As for sharia(h), i want to make it clear that I meant (what I expected you to know!) that Basayev and his associates after Shariah introduction claimed that there was no president Maskhadov anymore, because an islamic country does not have "lay" (=non-religious) leaders, so basically there was nothing Maskhadov (who was meant to be pressurized by the bombings) could do against Basayev invading Dagestan. Not that Maskhadov had done much against kidnappings, enslavements and simple racketeering before.--Pan Gerwazy 14:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

text: How kind of you Hanzo - a personal response to me. Which has nothing to do with the article, just an attempt to let of steam? For the record google maps are, as often the case, rarely updated with the exception of capitals. Some are up to five years old. Five years, given the scale at which the construction works are taking place is a very long time. It takes less than a month to turn a dirt track into a nice boulevard and given that all residents of Grozny want their city to look clean and beautiful again, it is hardly surprising this will not happen (or shall I say has not yet happened). There you go april 2007. The only thing that will slow this process is that the population of Grozny is still half of its 1989 level, thanks to the fact that the whole Russian majority was expelled during the "freedom-loving" regimes of the "holy" Dudaev and Makhadov.  As for myself - Motorized Infantry in a joint Cossack volunteer regiment. I can go into details but is it really necessary? --Kuban Cossack 11:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  to KC (re: 1995 mass graves and the "new Grozny") 

message: This page is in serious need of an update. Groznys' reconstruction has progressed considerably in recent years, so it is only fair to update the status of the city as of 2009. I suggest that these changes occur ASAP for the sake of this articles' credence.Meteorico (talk) 02:03, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Today Section

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thread_title: File:Grozny-city center.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title: File:Grozny1..png Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title: File:Panorama grozny.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Yes, before the war. The sentence reads like suggesting that in 1994 there were as much, but that's not very likely, indeed. The 1989 census gave a result of some 399.000 people in Grozny city, of whom 52,9 % were russian. 5 years before the war there might be 200,000 Russians in Grozny ... But in second half or last third of 1994 ? --129.187.244.28 (talk) 10:20, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claim: 4 out of 5, or nearly 200,000 Russians in Chechnya lived ''before'' the war in Grozny 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Grozny's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "2021Census":
From Moscow: 
From Yakutsk: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 15:31, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Grozny]] 

message: Dmitry Buterin, a Grozny native who made notable contributions to the digital world is worthy to be included among the list of notable people from Grozny!  This is bes 2603:8000:2300:7B59:EC75:3A8D:1554:8E48 (talk) 15:42, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grozny Notable People