Talk:Gabrielle (Xena: Warrior Princess)

message: Unless there any other major characters named Gabrielle in TV, the Xena character should have the title. --DrBat 21:53, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gabrielle (TV)/(Xena) 

message: The existing article describes her story as depicted in the show. But this is only one part of what the article could cover. Anyone else, please add to or modify this list -
* Intro - describing her role in the story as a whole, eg. as Xena's guiding light in her quest for redemption; and as part of her own desire to escape small-village life and explore the world.
* Issues, eg.
** Of growing up / the loss of innocence (epitomised by the Dahok sacrifice, and later using sharp weapons).
** Her inner conflict of goodness vs friendship and her quest to 'find her way' (eg. brought to a head during the Indian arc and The Ides Of March).
** The pairing of an innocent girl with a cynical warrior.
** Her belief in the essential goodness of every person.
An overview of 'the story' (incl. both Xena & Gabrielle) could be included in Xena: Warrior Princess. For details, readers can be referred to external sites.
Bardsandwarriors 10:13, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gabrielle's role and issues 

message: When was it revealed that Gabrielle had been saved by Ares after falling into Dahak's pit? --DrBat 01:19, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ares and Gabrielle 

message: Shouldn't there be a mention of how Gabrielle became an Amazon princess and queen?  I didn't see the episodes where that happened, but later in the series it is referred to.  She does play a big role with the Amazons, doesn't she?  Could someone jot down a few lines about it please? :-)
:Yes, there should be. StargateX1 21:51, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gabrielle as royal Amazon 

message: I did an edit of the "Been There, Done That" link under the costume section because I clicked on it expecting to find a summary of this funny episode, and instead it lead me to a Dr. Dre CD apparently of the same title. LOL. It now distinguishes itself as a "Xena" ep. I also re-did most of the other episode entry links for this reason, but it's late and I'm very tired so I know I didn't get them all. "Xena"'s Virgil now has his own blank page. Perhaps someday we'll actually write these up...
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by Wild Mountain Thyme 06:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixing episode links 

message: lila is gabrielle's sister mlila is a runaway slave the latter is linked to in the xenaverse links at all pages. I donot know how to fix that. 62.234.246.144 (talk) 10:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixing links to lila mlila 

message: :The true Greek translation of "Gabrielle" would be Γαβριήλα, (Gavrila), but this is not used.
Actually a nice Greek translation would be "Γαβριέλλα", which is indeed used, even though it is not very common. Atlantia (talk) 17:28, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: Since people keep going back and forth on this topic, I felt that I should bring it up on the talk page. Note: This same section is also at Talk:Xena.
As I stated to User:RafikiSykes, there should be care not to place characters in the bisexual category unless, as the category says, they are explicitly defined as bisexual. Just because a character has been with both men and women romantically/sexually, it doesn't necessarily mean that character is bisexual. Sure, many are sure that Xena is lesbian or bisexual, and Lucy Lawless (Xena's portrayer) believes that Xena is bisexual and was romantic/sexual with Gabrielle, but neither the show nor the creators identified them as bisexual, not clearly anyway; the creators decided to leave their relationship ambiguous as to whether it's romantic/sexual or not. Despite that, these two are LGBT-identified characters. Many fans see them as lesbian or bisexual. They are additionally gay icons, meaning that they are embraced by many within lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities. That's why Xena and Gabrielle belong in the LGBT category, in my opinion.  They already have the LGBT tag on their talk pages for these reasons; they are within the scope of the Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies. Placing them in the LGBT category is also a compromise for those wanting to place them in the bisexual category. 107.20.16.111 (talk) 19:46, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There are no xenaverse canon sources or reliable sources showing this character identifies as lgbt. Whilst wider discussion and speculation in the article can be included the character categories are based on the canon material/reliable sources. Lgbt studies means of interest to lgbt studies not that character is lgbt.RafikiSykes (talk) 20:05, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There are reliable sources showing that many in the LGBT community and outside of it identify Xena and Gabrielle as lesbian or bisexual. What you say about the LGBT tag is exactly what I'm trying to say about the LGBT category. It doesn't have to mean that the character identifies as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. Further, no character or real-life person identifies their sexual orientation to be LGBT. They identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (transgender not even being a sexual orientation), or by some other term, which is why you have the vast majority of LGBT characters being placed in a specific sexual orientation category. Not the LGBT category. When they do not personally identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, or even by terms like pansexual or homoflexible, but are shown or implied to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, they can be added to the LGBT category. That category is used for characters whose sexual orientations are ambiguous and for characters who are cited as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender by reliable sources while they or the show's creators have never identified them as such. The category is simply about characters who are identified as LGBT by reliable sources. It says "A category of fictional LGBT-identified characters appearing in films, television shows, books, comic books, and video games." That's Xena and Gabrielle. 23.20.59.196 (talk) 15:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Oh come off of it. Anyone with common sense can that you are RafikiSykes. An IP didn't just show up out of nowhere to revert me on both articles and comment on both talk pages. Stop trying to WP:Game the system, and start a WP:RfC about this already like any respectable editor. I've made my points, and you using my points about why these characters shouldn't be placed in the lesbian or bisexual categories to support your belief about why they shouldn't be placed in the LGBT category just shows that you didn't comprehend anything I stated about why they do fit in the LGBT category. 109.204.9.25 (talk) 21:32, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Fictional bisexuals]]  or [[:Category:Fictional LGBT characters]]? 

message: This is not a difficult concept. The character never identified as LGBT. I love a good femslash as much as the next guy but the masturbatory fantasies of segments of the fanbase don't change reality. Stop adding false information to the article because no matter how hard you wish Xena and Gabrielle had gotten it on on-camera, they didn't. Jerry Pepsi (talk) 15:12, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a wealth of material in reliable sources discussing the plausibility of the interpretation of the show in which Gabrielle and Xena's relationship is romantic and/or sexual, that is, that the two characters can be interpreted as LGBT. Some of this material is referenced in the article (although, like the article generally, this could probably be expanded). Are you denying that these sources exist? Or are you suggesting that they are somehow irrelevant? The latter seems to me to be clearly in contradiction to policy, namely WP:PRIMARY. An interpretation discussed in secondary sources is more important than what we as editors think is or isn't present in the work itself. VoluntarySlave (talk) 15:33, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

text: There is no "reality" to the issue, only portrayal and interpretation, both of which are deliberately ambiguous in this case. Rather than trying to make definitive statements about things that don't exist, it is more constructive to look at the function the category serves. Would someone looking for LGBT fictional characters be interested in this article? Possibly not as it stands, but if it had a referenced section similar to the "Lesbian subtext and debates" section of the Xena article, then the category would definitely be appropriate.--Trystan (talk) 02:22, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

text: * Did Gabrielle fuck a chick? Did Gabrielle express an interest in the fiction in fucking a chick? No? SHE ISN'T A LESBIAN. Categorizing based on lies is wrong. But as time has proven over and over again, as long as at least two people prefer the lie to the truth, it stays on Wikipedia. Jerry Pepsi (talk) 13:08, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It's crude to suggest that the character can't be seen as lesbian because she isn't shown actually engaging in sexual activity with another woman. There is sufficient lesbian innuendo in the show, as described in the article, for it to be reasonable to add the category (I'm not going to start adding the category myself, however, as I simply don't care that much). FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 20:02, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

text: It's true that onscreen there was no explicit portrayal of a lesbian relationship between Gabrielle and Xena, but there were overtones. And if there's going to be an honest description of the character, this should be explained in the article. The creators of Xena: Warrior Princess were producing a series in an era when a non-hetero relationship between two women was rarely straightforward. Renee O’Connor said in 2016: "We were very aware that there was only so much we could do, because it was a show on network television....", and Rob Tapert said: "The studio was so concerned that it would be perceived as a lesbian show that they would not allow us to have Xena and Gabrielle in the same frame of the opening titles."  –  Xena: Warrior Princess: Why Xena and Gabrielle never got together, Entertainment Weekly, May 6, 2016. As AfterEllen pointed out: "The writers, producers and actors began intentionally introducing sexual innuendo and dialog that lesbian audiences could read as desire between women, while the rest of the show’s viewing public wouldn’t necessarily notice a thing...." –   Xena and Gabrielle: Lesbian Icons, AfterEllen, August 13, 2003. However, there was going to be a reboot of the series and Xena.2 was not going to shy away from the lesbian approach:  "The revival, which was set to bring back co-creators Rob Tapert and Sam Raimi, was going to focus more on the lesbian relationship between the Amazonian goddess and Gabrielle...."  –   The Lesbian Reboot of Xena: Warrior Princess Just Got Cancelled, Out, August 22, 2017. It's unfortunate that the Gabrielle and Xena characters were trapped in the constraints of their television times, but we didn't see onscreen what is relatively easier to portray today, and as such the description of Gabrielle's character can't include a sexual preference conclusion and shouldn't have LGBT categories (unless a category is created for implied LGBT characters in television). It's also unfortunate that contempt laced with homophobia always finds a path to Wikipedia. Pyxis Solitary 15:22, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said back in 2014, it isn't unreasonable to add a lesbian-identifying category to the article, and I also said back in 2014, I really don't care that much. The case for adding the category would be strengthened if there were more cited material in the article about how the character has been interpreted or perceived as lesbian. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 00:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

text: Pyxis Solitary, thanks for commenting. Because the creators intentionally introduced lesbian subtext, and Xena and Gabrielle are widely considered LGBT characters, I agree with VoluntarySlave, Trystan and FreeKnowledgeCreator about it making sense to have Xena and Gabrielle in the LGBT category. Since neither characters have been identified as specifically lesbian or bisexual, though, and they did have heterosexual experiences on the show (more so Xena), I wouldn't place them in the lesbian or bisexual categories. They are lesbian icons, but that doesn't equate to their sexuality being lesbian, especially in the strict sense of "no sexual attraction to men." Their sexuality was ambiguous, and we do include such characters in the LGBT category (when sources note that they are perceived as being, or possibly being, gay, lesbian, or bisexual). I do find "new editor" CallyMc (who also recently removed Xena from the LGBT category) suspicious. Only two editors have cared so much to remove Xena and Gabrielle from the LGBT category, and that was RafikiSykes and Jerry Pepsi; both were indefinitely blocked as socks. And just like with those two socks, it doesn't matter to CallyMc if the fictional characters have content in their articles noting that the characters are perceived as gay or lesbian, or are seen as LGBT representation. Otherwise, CallyMc would not have removed Xena from the category. We can also see that he removed Jadzia Dax from the LGBT category, but maybe that's because she's also in :Category:Fictional androgynes and :Category:Fictional bisexual females. He also removed Zoe Carpenter from the LGBT category, but maybe that's because she's already in the Fictional bisexual females category. Anyway, :Category:Fictional LGBT characters in television, which has only existed since 2015 (and was created by an account that hasn't edited since 2015), currently states, "This category is for Fictional characters in live-action television explicitly identified as gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual, transexual, transgender, queer, androgynous, intersex or an otherwise third gender." Xena and Gabrielle are explicitly identified as LGBT by reliable sources. So that should be enough to put them in the LGBT category, but perhaps this type of thing needs broad discussion or an RfC to keep this debate from happening. Speaking of broadness, that category description is too broad. Someone being androgynous does not necessarily make them LGBT, and the asexual and intersex inclusions can be debated as well. The LGBT article notes that the intersex inclusion is subject to dispute. And asexuals, just like intersex people, can be heterosexual (well, "heteroromantic" for asexuals). In my opinion, those three aspects should be removed from the category. We already have :Category:Fictional asexuals anyway. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:10, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Interpretations and perceptions can take on whole lives of their own though. Even Kirk and Spock and the Winchester brothers have been perceived as couples. Whist I think it is worth noting that in reception or impact portions of articles I don't think it is accurate or fair to categorize them or treat them the same as characters fully and openly shown as such in their originating media. CallyMc (talk) 10:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: CallyMc, this is not solely about interpretations and perceptions. The creators are clear that they intentionally added dialogue/subtext to get across the idea that Xena and Gabrielle are lovers. In fact, that dialogue/subtext became so obvious and heavy that even heterosexual people could no longer deny it existed. Some can view it as the show just jesting, but it's there. Xena and Gabrielle are also considered LGBT characters by many reliable sources. This is not the same as girls or women (and some men) shipping the Winchester brothers (Wincest) or many shipping Kara Danvers/Supergirl and Lena Luthor (Supercorp), although reliable sources, like this 2017 Digital Spy source, cover both of those couples too. So, yes, it's valid to put Xena and Gabrielle in the LGBT category. The article can be clear that they were never confirmed as lesbian or bisexual on the show. So far, you are making the same argument as RafikiSykes and Jerry Pepsi, and I see that there is now a sock investigation on you per my having contacted SuperMarioMan about the matter. I will weigh in on that investigation now. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:36, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The character is not LGBT. 

message: If no reliable sources have pointed this out,I can't see how this character can meet GNG, as we would not have enough reliable secondary sources to discuss the topic in an encyclopedic manner. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:41, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Has anyone pointed out the anachronism of the character having a Hebrew name? 

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