Talk:Malcolm Young

message: I've semi-protected this for a short period because after the initial reports, there is no more information available and virtually all of the IP edits at this point are either vandalism or meddling with the templates/markup and introducing errors. If any admins driving by think this is a bad idea, feel free to unprotect without consulting with me. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 13:46, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected 

message: I added that Young's death came less than a month of that of his older brother George, which was reverted as "trivia". I think that the brother's death is worth mentioning. The likely impact on the family of two brothers dying from ill health within a month is blue-sky obvious. The stress of the death of a brother can also reasonably be inferred as a possible contributing factor to the timing of Young's own death. bd2412 T 16:16, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless you have secondary sources discussing the connection and its significance, this amounts to WP:OR. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 16:41, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Reliable sources have at least mentioned the proximity of the deaths - for example, The Independent, stating in its kicker, "Legendary guitarist died just weeks after his older brother, Easybeats guitarist and AC/DC producer George Young"; The Guardian, "Last month their elder brother George, who was guitarist in the Easybeats and AC/DC’s longtime co-producer, died aged 70"; NBC News, "George Young, another brother to Malcolm and Angus, died on Oct. 23 at age 70"; The Telegraph, "Older brother George Young, the Easybeats guitarist and AC/DC's longtime producer, also died just a few weeks ago, in October, at the age of 70"; and Blabbermouth.net, "Malcolm's death comes just weeks after his brother George". bd2412 T 16:58, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  In that case I don't think it's trivia to mention the proximity of the deaths. I must stress that any analysis or discussion of the significance of the proximity needs sources, though. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 17:03, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The proximity to someone's death to someone else is trivia for an Encyclopedia.  - FlightTime (open channel) 17:10, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  That is your opinion, and one which may not be the one that consensus forms around in this case. bd2412 T 17:34, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that is my opinion. Are you saying "opinions" have no place in "consensus" ? Then please point to the guideline/policy that states this is not trivia.  - FlightTime (open channel) 17:37, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  WP:RS. As requested, I have provided reliable sources that describe this exact proximity. Beyond that, this is no less "trivial" than the fact that Young preferred heavy gauge Gibson nickel guitar strings, or that his place in the band was taken by his nephew Stevie. With every edit that we make, we should consider the reader, and what might by useful to them. To a reader, the proximity of the death of the two brothers might provide a useful sense of context - the cited sources clearly think so. It's not as though we are trying to add that Young died on the same day as Naim Süleymanoğlu, which is a trivial coincidence. bd2412 T 17:49, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm fine with noting the proximity since several sources have deemed it worthy of mention. I was just saying what we don't want to do is start implying that George's death accelerated Malcolm's decline, because that's not corroborated. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 18:38, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I checked with my wife, and she said that anyone reading the article would want to know that (she compared it to the proximity of the deaths of Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher, which is mentioned in both articles). So that's three people in favor of including this information. bd2412 T 18:46, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's just silly, but by all means, if your wife has confirmed then it must be true.  - FlightTime (open channel) 18:55, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  However you choose to read it, the consensus now appears to favor including the information. I would respectfully request that you restore it, possibly referenced to one or more of the sources that I have provided. bd2412 T 18:57, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

text: Done, with, I think, appropriately neutral wording. Cheers! bd2412 T 19:24, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

text: The mention of the wife was a bit silly and unneeded here. We're having a discussing among editors. I am OK with something like "Young died on 18 November 2017 at the age of 64, a month after his brother George". I'll follow whatever consensus develops. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 22:56, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thewolfchild, please assume good faith. My wife is not an editor, but she is a Wikipedia reader, the typical person who look things up in the encyclopedia. Those are the people for whom we are writing an encyclopedia, not for each other. She also does have some understanding of how Wikipedia works, having been married to me for all of the thirteen+ years that I have been editing. She has been to Wikimania with me twice, which is a lot of commitment for someone who doesn't edit. I asked her opinion, she provided it (with a perspective I had not thought of), and I conveyed it here. bd2412 T 13:55, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  - this isn't about "good faith" or bad faith or even disbelieving you. I actually do believe you have a wife that supports your position here. What this is about, however, is the absurdity of trying to insert such support by way of proxy into this discussion to have it form part of any consensus. (that, and preaching about "who we write for"). If your wife wants to have a say in article content, then tell her to sign up for an account. Like you said, it's been over 13 years already... - theWOLFchild 15:34, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that "tell her to sign up for an account" misses exactly the point that I am making here. We are not creating an encyclopedia for people who have an account. We are creating one for everyone who might be interested in the topics that we cover. People might be just as interested to know that Malcolm Young died just a few weeks after his brother a they are to know that Debbie Reynolds died shortly after Carrie Fisher. This doesn't imply that Malcolm Young committed suicide any more than the death of Debbie Reynolds implies that. The question is, would this be useful information to provide to the reader? In this case, aside from my wife thinking so, we can find an answer to that in numerous highly credible reliable sources choosing to present exactly that information. bd2412 T 17:07, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it is you  that appears to have missed my point. Completely. There was no need for a lengthy rebuttal where you restate all your arguments about Carrie Fisher and her mom, etc., etc., or to go on and on again about "why we are here". Simply put, if you don't contribute here, then your opinion will not have any part in the formation of any consensus. Surely you understand this? So, bringing up your wife's opinion was, as the other editor above stated, "silly", as it serves no purpose. At least, not as far as consensus is concerned. That was my point. - theWOLFchild 19:37, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proximity of Young's death to that of his older brother George. 

message: Change "6 January 1953" to "6 January, 1953" and "18 November 2017" to "18 November, 2017" 2A00:23C5:CF01:501:F8D8:B102:E6A:9B97 (talk) 17:55, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The dates now are properly formatted. - FlightTime (open channel) 18:13, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2017 

message: Could you put in the main bit that he is a part of the Young musical family? I know it's all stated in the article, but thought it would be great in the summary part at the top. He had two brothers involved in music. Alexander in 'Grapefruit' and George in 'The Easybeats' and obviously, Angus, and all are very notable.PeterMan844 (talk) 01:46, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Header

message: The Musical career section is now filled with content that is the history of AC/DC and belongs in that article. This section should be content that's specific to Malcolm. Pinging  since you added a lot. If you copied this content from another Wikipedia article, attribution must also be provided otherwise it's a copyvio. Thoughts? --Spike Wilbury (talk) 15:08, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the AC/DC section is bloated and off-topic. It should be reduced to relevant content that reflects MY's role in forming the band and his own significant contributions thereafter. Band achievements do not belong here. The whole section needs a haircut. WWGB (talk) 23:04, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I removed most of the AC/DC history material, and it's back to needing expansion. We should be looking at recent sources for text specific to Malcolm's history with the band. The section in George Harrison about his involvement with The Beatles is probably a good example. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 12:42, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bio content 

message: I removed a large section of commented out material here  in case anyone wants to try and save it. It had been commented out more than 6 months ago (not sure exactly when) after most of it was tagged as needing sourcing in 2013. Meters (talk) 17:32, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  equipment