Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league/Archive 3

message: Is anybody going to State of Origin II? SpecialWindler talk 12:18, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because if anyone could get a photo of Karmichael Hunt, it would be much appreciated. QUEENSLANDER SpecialWindler 06:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  state of orgin 

message: I created the following image for state of origin, it based on 
SpecialWindler 07:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: I got a bot to change all  to 
So I have put the first template up for deletion. As it is no longer required.
This will add about 400+ unassessed articles to our project, so please help with the backlog.
SpecialWindler 21:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I have a new bot adding  to all articles drawing down from the :Category:Rugby league SpecialWindlerTALK 03:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to User:Betacommand for doing this. SpecialWindlerTALK 03:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I've been going through updating some pages this afternoon but I notice the code to display player=current/former or needs-infobox=yes/no no longer displays in the template. I tried c&ping the template over the bot template but that didn't help. See Talk:Tim Sheens or Talk:Ben Reynolds for examples. If this information is no longer necessary, no probs. Florrie 06:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The codes player, coach, club no longer exist because they arn't needed. The needs-infobox however still exists. SpecialWindler  talk 11:18, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers for the response. Florrie 10:56, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template 

message: I have nominated Karmichael Hunt for Featured article status.
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Karmichael Hunt
SpecialWindler  talk 08:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good luck Joel. I've done a little copy editing. Tremendous effort in the detail of your citations.-Sticks66 11:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Featured Article

message: AS some people know, if they read rugby league news around the net, like I do. Theres a guy name Cyril Connell, and I was going to write an article on him. because the following source:  enough information on him to start an article.
I typed in "Cyril Connell" in the search to check if there was an article, and there was. So I was about to proceed creating "Cyril Connell (rugby league)", when the article on Cyril Connell was already about Rugby league, but this was on a completely different person who died 30 odd years ago.
Does anyone have a suggestion on naming conventions for this case, both should go under Cyril Connell (rugby league). SpecialWindler  talk 04:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Most simply the older could be Cyril John Connell & the younger also identified by his middle name. But if they were related you'd go Senior and Junior as we've done for the Eric Grothes. I note that CJC had two sons. Interestingly both Cyrils were academics and obviously both Queenslanders. They would have known each other since they were both on the 1956-57 Kangaroo Tour the younger as a player who was the 2nd highest tour pt scorer, while CJC was the team's tour manager. In terms of precedents we are using somewhat meaningful differentiators in the (bracket part) of the name - see the 3 Dave Browns Dave Brown (rugby league footballer Easts), Dave Brown (rugby league footballer Easts Manly) & Dave Brown (1900s athlete). Although for the two Peter Gallaghers the bracket descriptor doesn't adequately differentiate with one as Peter Gallagher (rugby league player) and the other Peter Gallagher (rugby league footballer). My vote would be to use middle names. Just like in real life ! - Sticks66 05:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

text: That's a good point and I will have to look under the disambiguation section on the Wikipedia MOS. There is a similar case with two Dave Browns who played rugby league. Problem is, they both played for Eastern Suburbs too at one stage (in fact, 3 Dave Browns have played for the team). I doubt this is the correct thing to do but the author named the article something like Dave Brown (rugby league footballer Easts) and Dave Brown (rugby league footballer Easts Manly). At this stage I don't think it's a big deal - just make the article under any name because it can be easily moved once we find the answer. mdmanser 05:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit: You beat me to it! The middle name convention sounds like the perfect solution. mdmanser 05:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But does the younger have a veriable middle name?, and I won't put the fact they may be father and son until, it is found to be true. While it sound's likely it may be factually incorrect. SpecialWindler  talk 05:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cyril Connell 

message: Just a thought, to help improve our wikiProject, could we make a Barnstar for our WikiProject.
::For anyone who dosen't know what a Barnstar is check out WP:BARNSTAR
For other wikiProjects have stars etc. (check out Wikipedia:WikiProject awards)
I was thinking, due to me just giving Florrie one out, that a Barnstar would be good.
If we were to have one, what pic on the star could we use.
SpecialWindler  talk 11:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a tough one. I think we should model is around the Football one - just a plain star with a rugby league football on top. I don't think I can help making it though - I can't seem to get the transparency on it. mdmanser 15:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will make it, but I was umming and arring about the football, because it may be confused with union or AFL. But I would also like to know whether it is a good idea. SpecialWindler  talk 20:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barnstars 

message: Over the past weeks, I have been trying things to better organise this WikiProject. Mainly to gain more interest in the WikiProject. By doing some things, I have created backlog, which needs addressing. By getting bots to do stuff, there are now categories that are backlogged and need addressing??? Here are some.
*:Category:Unassessed rugby league articles
**Backlog Status: About 1000 articles
**Assess all Rugby league articles.
*:Category:Unknown-importance rugby league articles
**Backlog Status: About 1700+ articles
**Assess the importance of all rugby league articles.
*:Category:Automatically assessed Rugby league articles
**Backlog Status: About 1179 articles
**To check if they are actually stubs, and remove the auto=yes parameter.
*:Category:Rugby league articles needing infoboxes
**Backlog Status: Over 800 articles
**All articles within that category are rugby league player biographies which don't have the template 
**The bot made a few errors, so there may be some with that template already.
**Remove the autotemplate=yes and needs-infobox=yes if a template is present.
SpecialWindler  talk 11:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And I was feeling daunted by the idea of having written 13 Grand Final reports in the season articles with 87 yet to go. I'm not quite sure what you're saying needs be done on these. Does each of these 800 or 1,179 or 1,700 articles need to be individually dealt with (eg add and complete a player infobox to each and every one) ? -Sticks66 13:38, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm happy to pitch in when I can. Florrie 15:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortenely (replying to Sticks66) yes. SpecialWindler  talk 21:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Backlog 

message: Over the course of time, these backlogs will decrease. But I propose, every now and then a drive, to push to get rid of the backlog. Example over a month, to get rid of all A-L of the Need infobox one... Any opinions
SpecialWindler  talk 11:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And I was feeling daunted by the idea of having written 13 Grand Final reports in the season articles with 87 yet to go. I'm not quite sure what you're saying needs be done on these. Does each of these 800 or 1,179 or 1,700 articles need to be individually dealt with (eg add and complete a player infobox to each and every one) ? -Sticks66 13:38, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm happy to pitch in when I can. Florrie 15:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortenely (replying to Sticks66) yes. SpecialWindler  talk 21:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Management

message: I have given on this page Bot Requests, a task to add the category :Category:Queensland Rugby League State of Origin players to every page that is linked on this page Queensland Maroons Players (redirect). The bot person (User:S) has asked me if there is there any major issue with this request. Please reply, even just to say yep or whatever. SpecialWindler  talk 21:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot request 

message: We have a big backlog for the needs-infobox=yes parameter for all Rugby league biographies. We have quite a few rugby league biographies templates
*
**No articles use this, but still exists
*
**About 100 articles, still use this template
*
**No articles use this, but still exists
*
**One article still uses this template
The only one that should exist is
*
If you decide to help, don't forget to remove the needs-infobox=yes from the WP:RLtemplate on the talk page. SpecialWindler  talk 12:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Template to Template

message: Based on this template from rugby union , I have added  the following parameters to our template. None of them are mandetory. 
*Occupation  
*School  attended  
*University  
*Spouse  
*Children  
*Notable relatives  
*Official site  
SpecialWindler  talk 09:01, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:Infobox_rugby_league_biography]] 

message: In attempt for people to use this template, I have shown below, what you can enter into the template to recieve a certain colour box. The Result column is what will happen if you type in the Keyword column in the the template like this . You can also make it various sizes 
SpecialWindler  talk 03:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{template|leagueicon}} 

message: I don't know if this is where I should go to ask, but can someone PLEASE help expand this article? It should have some history about Rugby League in Victoria. It has been played there longer than a lot of the other states.
:Who said this, an anonymus user or someone who forgot to log in. Please sign your comments SpecialWindler  talk 06:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Victorian Rugby League]] 

message: I've noticed that some editors have listed "club numbers" for NRL players.  Should NRL players have a "club number" listed?  In European Super League, the players are assigned a number by the club that they wear all year no matter what position they play, but NRL players may wear a different number every week if they change position on the field.  I am in favor of the club number system, but I don't think that we should create the false impression that it is used in NRL.  What do you reckon?
Rugbyhelp 16:41, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Where a player such as Brett Hodgson is always at fullback (well, when fit) I don't see a problem with his number being listed in the info-box but for the likes of a Daniel Fitzhenry who may change position week-to-week, no, I leave that part off the info-box. Would you rather leave it off the info-box altogether for Australian players or just use it judiciously? Florrie 17:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Club Numbers 

message: :Image:Washington DC colours.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 14:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Washington DC colours.png 

message: It been a bit boring in the old Peer review section, so if anyone wants help improving an article, how to do it is on the peer review page. SpecialWindler  talk 10:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer review 

message: As you people know, our State of Origin articles are below par, other than the main one. Just check out New South Wales state rugby league team to know how bad the standards are. I propose a task force, for editors to join, as part of this WikiProject (like WikiProject Biography which has task forces. I will only start it if I have decent numbers who would join it and actively participate for at least the first month, then it can just die down etc.
===Support===
#SpecialWindler  talk 07:53, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll eventually get behind this proposal but not for a month or even longer. I have a focus on copy content for the Season Articles and once I start getting into the pre-1950s ones the research they require will slow me right down. But you're right, I'am ashamed of the Blues article compared to the  article you bloody Queenslanders have done  -Sticks66 15:22, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  State of Origin 

message: #SpecialWindler  talk 07:53, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: *I don't mind doing/writting the syntax on the template, and getting a bot to tag all the articles under the State of Origin task force banner. SpecialWindler  talk 10:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll eventually get behind this proposal but not for a month or even longer. I have a focus on copy content for the Season Articles and once I start getting into the pre-1950s ones the research they require will slow me right down. But you're right, I'am ashamed of the Blues article compared to the  article you bloody Queenslanders have done  -Sticks66 15:22, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Thanks to sources provided by SpecialWindler I've got the names of the team lineups and have begun match reports for the Grand Final sections of 1940s NSWRL season articles. In fact the 1940,41,42 and 49 GF sections are now done. But d'oh, I've got nowhere to put them. Can anyone help by creating some season articles for 1940 to 1949 ? -Sticks66 11:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just leave them on your Work Space pages, they be created soon, I don't have the time to do it me personally. SpecialWindler  talk 06:31, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll get around to doing it sooner of later for you. I'm in a bit of a Wikipedia editing slump at the moment but you can be assured I'll be back on track pretty soon. mdmanser 07:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1940s Season Articles 

message: Hi I've noticed that a lot of players have their profiles with the imperial weights and measurements first. As a metirc country the metric system should be first and the imperial system in brackets. I've started re-editing them. Anyone want to help me? 60.230.78.50 07:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just make sure you follow the MOS - Australian/NZ player currently playing in England, imperial first; playing in Australia/NZ/France, metric first. Florrie 11:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metric system first 

message: I've noticed some people are putting up weekly run on sides eg Melbourne Storm, St George Illawarra Dragons. I do not believe this is encyclopaedic as per WP:NOT#DIR when the info can easily be obtained off www.nrl.com and not considered standard for league articles as per Featured Article Sydney Roosters which is the highest standard article. Michellecrisp 06:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: doesn't appear to happen in the Australian Football League team articles I've seen. current 2007 squad is fine but not weekly team in my opinion which could be found at www.afl.com.au for AFL or www.nrl.com for league, or say www.nhl.com for ice hockey. calling it "possible" team or "team may change at any time" also to me indicates it's too uncertain for encyclopaedic content.  Michellecrisp 06:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I agree that they should be removed. You've said it all. mdmanser 07:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Create 2007 page for Manly. Alexsanderson83 07:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Create 2007 pages, stop reverting edits. Be pro-active in the drive to create 2007 articles Michellecrisp Alexsanderson83 07:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do not think putting on weekly run on sides is encyclopaedic. past results are fine because it's encyclopaedic. Michellecrisp 07:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree completely. The content is unencyclopedic. In addition to WP:NOT#DIR, Wikipedia is also not a crystal ball for like you said, the "possible" line-ups. GizzaDiscuss © 07:52, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally agree that there's no place for a 'possible' side in a WP team page. Club sites etc can be referenced for such information. If we are voting, I vote remove. Florrie 08:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Get them out, Get them out. SpecialWindler  talk 09:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The discussion has been here for less than 24 hours and, as much as I agree with removal, to be fair, it should remain open a little longer. Plus, I only found the discussion by accident from a comment on Joel's page (I think) and I have since placed a comment on the actual WP:RL project page to direct discussion here. Florrie 11:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry I didn't mean to close the discussion. Will keep it open for 7 days till majority vote or consensus is reached. Michellecrisp 11:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Further reasons for non inclusion: WP:NOT#NEWS. Wikipedia properly considers the long-term historical notability of persons and events...The fact that someone or something has been in the news for a brief period of time does not automatically justify an encyclopedia article. Weekly run on side is not a long term historical notable event (unlike say a State of Origin match) and it only appears in the news for the few days up to the leadup in the match. And as someone has said WP:NOT#CRYSTAL by pre-empting the named official line up. Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation. All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable Michellecrisp 12:28, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm closing this discussion, there is a clear majority for not including weekly run on sides on main club pages. Michellecrisp 12:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Putting up weekly run on sides on team articles 

message: I have noticed that you are removing material, but have not indicated your willingness to create 2007 season pages. I would see this as a happy mid-way point. I would be happy to assist you in your drive Londo06 07:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't mind 2007 season pages being created but I am opposed to weekly "possible" run on sides appearing on Wikipedia. there has been no discussion from Alexanderson or you why it should be included. I have given several reasons why it should not appear. Michellecrisp 07:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: It helps to illustrate the form which the team plays, who plays, in what positions, which jersey they wear, helps to quickly illustrate a teams line up, shows players nationalities, shows whether a player is being tried in a different role, shows the teams colours, shows injury lists. It helps flesh out the basic NRL club pages on wikipedia on players such as at Manly. I agree that they belong on 2007 season pages, but they must be created first. Londo06 07:54, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Again, some of this can be in "current squad" sections (which should be included). The issue is do people want to see a "possible run on side" which is likely to change every week and is not even certain till kick off. Michellecrisp 07:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would say it is relevant, and it would fit into 2007 season pages. It is something that it is something that enhances the articles, and within the 2007 season page it would have context. Londo06 08:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  These "Run on Sides" have now been created on all super leage and national league team articles. I have tried removing the one on Celtic Crusaders, only to have it replaced. I have now created a 2007 page where this team line up is placed, however I don't see this page lasting very long as it does not contain any encyclopedic information. The issue of these run on sides appears a controversial one. It seems that fans of the clubs want them to appear, but by its very nature Wikipedia is NOT the place for such information. EVERYTHING must be verifiable, and as these run on teams amount to little more than speculation, and provide no real content to an article, I do not see the point in them. Nouse4aname 08:05, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[User:Michellecrisp|Michellecrisp]]

message: I am, and have been for quite a while, of the opinion that club colours should only stay on season summary pages. Too often I'm seeing them being moved around on the main National Rugby League page as well as representative and club pages themselves. Initially they were created to get some graphics back into pages once logos were removed because of their fair use status but now they're out of control. What are everyones thoughts on this proposal to remove them from all non-season summary pages? Just leave a Support or Oppose vote below. Cheers all, mdmanser 07:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Club Colours 

message: It should probably be on this page, but there is currently discussion on the practice of placing "possible" run-on sides on club pages here, if anyone wants a say. Florrie 11:40, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league/Discussions forums/Putting up weekly run on sides on team articles|Run-on sides discussion]] 

message: When I go to games, I try to get photos of all the players I can. All the ones I took, I release to the public domain as soon as i put them on. So if anyonw else would like to use the ones I put on, I say be my guest. Sliat 1981 23:11, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Player photos 

message: Well it took just over 346 days to complete since the New South Wales Rugby Football League season 1908 was page to the time the final outstanding New South Wales Rugby Football League season 1949 was created and finished to current standards. Thank you very much to everybody who either created, modified or worked on each of the 101 pages (including Super League). It was one mammoth effort and one that each member of this project can think proudly of. Hopefully now that this entire database has been established it can open the way up for further Wikipedians to start adding information to them easily. This is the just the start of big things to come from this project - the NRL clubs project has come along somewhat with 4 of the 16 clubs achieving Good Article status or higher, and a couple more coming up through the ranks very quickly. Cheers everyone, and hope you are all well. mdmanser 07:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NSWRL/ARL/NRL Season Pages Finished 

message: Might be worthwhile to send out invites to those who are doing editing for Rugby League articles who are not registered Editors. I couldnt find any template available for invites to use for the WikiProject Rugby league Project to send out, but maybe there is one but i havent seen it. 87.112.86.72 has been doing work on adding Bradford Bulls Super League templates, so could be helpful as a Project member. Boylo 01:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its not good to ask unregistered users to join something, because the IP adress could be used by multiple people. I use  to invite people here. SpecialWindler  talk 06:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject Rugby league Invite Template 

message: If you check out this page Luke Bailey (rugby league), it seems a stub. I was looking around and found at User:Tiburon/Sandbox/Luke Bailey, was a almost complete article on (B-Class) Bailey. It only has information on New South Wales career.
Now, Tiburon (who was a former member of this project) hasn't edited Wikipedia for 3 months. It would be a waste to leave the information there. But it wouldn't be right to take information from someone else. Any thoughts? SpecialWindler  talk 11:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, that would be a waste of research. Why not post a message on his/her talk page, asking if the article can be placed on the Luke Bailey page. At least you will be seen to have asked and you never know, it may prompt a reply! Other than that, search on sandbox policy or a question on the WP:Help desk to see if there is a precedent? Florrie 04:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest both leaving a message on his talk page as well as sending an email to him. It is the least we could do. If there is no reply within a week then it would be fair enough to upload the information on the actual article. mdmanser 05:13, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no e-mail address for him/her, not from their user page at least. Florrie 05:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I took action because Tiburon hasn't contributed or replied. The Luke Bailey page is now like his sandbox. SpecialWindler  talk 03:07, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good! Florrie 03:32, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

text:  Welldone, would've been a tragedy to not use it. I'll see if I can write a SoO section. -Sticks66 13:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Luke Bailey (rugby league)]]