Talk:Hebrew calendar

message: Anyone is welcome to insert the information into the article, I just couldn't figure out how to do it best. Turkey uses the same calendar used in the Western world and the names of the months in Turkish (English in paranthesis) are -starting with the first month in the Hebrew calendar: Nisan (April), Mayıs (May), Haziran (June), Temmuz (July), Ağustos (August), Eylül (September), Ekim (October), Kasım (November), Aralık (December), Ocak (January), Şubat (February), Mart (March). Best. --Stultiwikiatext me 12:10, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: So 4 months, February, April, July and September are like the Hebrew names Shvat, Nisan, Tammuz and Elul. Debresser (talk) 20:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similarity to Turkish names of months (and perhaps Arabic). 

message: "At higher latitudes in summer, when the sun does not sink below the horizon, a day is counted from midday to midday, and in the winter, when the sun does not rise above the horizon, from midnight to midnight."
Is that correct?  Shouldn't it be the other way around?  That is, when the sun is up all day, shouldn't the new day start when its at its *lowest* point, i.e., "midnight", and likewise when it's below the horizon all day, at midday?  Like, the day before that prolonged daylight would begin at sunset, when the sun briefly drops below the horizon.  Noon would only be 12 hours later than that, so if you're defining the day as midday to midday, then you'd have a 12-hour day when it switches from sunset to midday reckoning, whereas 24 hours after that last sunset would be the sun at its lowest point, just skimming the horizon XinaNicole (talk) 17:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It contradicts the last sentence of Jewish law in the polar regions.  I suggest it be removed from this article altogether. McKay (talk) 00:43, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. AJD (talk) 04:04, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

text:  So do I. This seems counterintuitive. Debresser (talk) 16:46, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The South Pole has to be considered, as well.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.53.130 (talk) 07:33, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  High latitudes 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Using the Pessah formula by Gauß and Eastern formula by Lichtenberg i constructed this formula to get the day of 1 Tischri. X is the number of the hebrewan year:
A = (12X + 5) MOD 19
R = (X + 3) MOD 4
P = 20707440 + 765433A + 123120R - 1565X
Q = P DIV 492480
V = P MOD 492480
W = (Q + 3X + 5R + 6) MOD 7
K = (X + 39) DIV 100
S = (3K + 1) DIV 4 - 30
Y = 0
W:
0 ?(A>11 & V>442110) -> Y=1
1 ?(A>6 & V>311675) -> Y=2
2 Y=1
4 Y=1
6 Y=1<br
M = Q + S + Y - 31
M. Sep / (M - 30). Oct
(W + Y) MOD 7 Weekday [0=Mo]
(X - 3761) Jahr gregorian.
--87.144.190.66 (talk) 02:12, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the contribution. Hebrew calendar is built into the MediaWiki software platform, so we don't need to go to this trouble. But this might be useful to some users who wish to code their own work. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:16, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem - i forgot to translate one word, because i have postet it on german wiki first - "Jahr" -> "year". Maybe you can find a nice place for it; here on the talk page it will be lost some day...  --93.220.232.186 (talk) 00:37, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Calculating the day of 1 Tischri in Gregorian calendar 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Samaritans operate a similar version of the calendar, but out of sync with the mainstream Rabbinic Jewish Calendar.   For example they celebrate Pesach on "Nissan 15-22" like Jews, but in practice this works out to be a few weeks later or earlier.  I think this should be added to the Other Practices section.62.190.148.115 (talk) 14:59, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair point. Give us a few days on this. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:00, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's six months you've been given.  Any progress? 81.154.25.196 (talk) 22:42, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Feel free to add it. Debresser (talk) 16:28, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please include sources. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:43, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: See https://www.israelite-samaritans.com/religion/calendar/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.52.216.96 (talk) 10:26, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  See . StevenJ81 (talk) 22:46, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samaritan Version of Calendar? 

message: It would be useful to add a discussion of how the year is written. See http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/Hebrew_numerals 
Otherwise it is somewhat obscure why 5777 is written תשע״ז. 
Thank you very much for your consideration
Michaelaoash (talk) 07:24, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Also a good point. Will also try to get to this during this week. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:04, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Was already there, but I provided examples. See Hebrew calendar#writing. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:45, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writing the year with alphabetical numbers omitting the thousands. 

message: Could you please update this page a bit in the Months section of the Components section of this article by saying "In leap years (Such as 5779)". Please. 2602:304:5D47:EC19:4D84:3C29:4961:DBB4 (talk) 19:42, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: But it seems to be very difficult for you not to have all dates in all of these articles updated to future years. 5774 was a perfectly appropriate example. Don't worry about these things so much. StevenJ81 (talk) 04:04, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 March 2018 

message: The Hebrew calendar month counting is not as simple and straight forward as the month table suggests as each month has two numbers associated with it. 
While the number column on the page is accurate for the Hebrew sacred calendar (best to my knowledge), it does not contain the numbers for the Hebrew civil Calendar. 
I have looked at 3 websites to verify my information and not a single one, including one that is maintained by a Jewish practitioner, has the both month numbers. 
I have copy and pasted below the table that you do have on the page and have added a second number column and titled the number columns in respect to their civil or sacred standing. 
This information should be verified with a Rabbi to ensure that I do not have the Civil and Sacred column titles reversed. Sometimes I get things wrong even when I double triple and quadruple check them. 
I really hate when that happens!
Civil	Sacred	                         	
No.  		No.  	Hebrew months            	Length
7    	1     	Nisan                    	30
8    	2     	Iyar                     	29
9    	3     	Sivan                    	30
10   	4     	Tammuz                   	29
11   	5     	Av                       	30
12   	6     	Elul                     	29
1    	7     	Tishrei                  	30
2    	8     	Marcheshvan (or Cheshvan)	29/30
3    	9     	Kislev                   	30/29
4    	10    	Tevet                    	29
5    	11    	Shevat                   	30
6    	12    	Adar                     	29
Due to the lack of complete and verifiable information on the internet,  people are confused on just how the Hebrew/Jewish calendar actually works. I don't think having both sets of numbers will make it less confusing, but it will ensure that they have the complete information regarding the calendar and the way that the months are numbered for whatever research they may be conducting.
Thanks for making the update!
Source:
Bottom of Page 850 of the 
Holy Bible
Authorized King James Version
PTL Partner Edition
Thomas Nelson Publishers Copyright 1975 page 850 69.218.72.2 (talk) 03:44, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You should add Adar II. Debresser (talk) 16:22, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:   Adar II is covered right below that table (and in several other places), so I left it alone for now. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:08, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2018 

message: Roman calendar used AUC ab urbe condita before Jesus Christ and BC/AD Anno Domini. Hebrew calendar (HC). 73.85.207.74 (talk) 21:44, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: No. I don't think we should do that.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:401:C400:357:E1B7:8159:8851:AE75 (talk) 21:45, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

text: Why not? HC is the obvious abbreviation for Hebrew Calendar and it's being used on many Internet sites (google that). I have yet to find it in a book. 73.85.202.253 (talk) 13:30, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  It may be obvious, but I never saw it before, and I would like to see it used in some serious publications, not the Internet, before we start using it on Wikipedia. Debresser (talk) 22:03, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hebrew Calendar abbreviated as HC 

message: I think this article is very informative and helpful to people who are trying to learn more about the Hebrew Calendar. I will add a subsection called Observance in Auschwitz under the Modern calendar section. I found an interesting article called Tracking Jewish Time in Auschwitz, which appeared in a peer-reviewed journal and is written by Alan Rosen, who has a Ph.D. in literature and religion from Boston University. I will add information about the dangers of having a calendar while in Auschwitz and the importance of women making the only known surviving calendars. If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chloe24681234 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: , you might want to take a look at  where there are many more instances of this for many places in Europe, not just Auschwitz. I think you can use this to expand the section quite a bit. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:49, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: My thinking now is that with your link and my link above, the information is enough for a standalone article, Hebrew Calendar and the Holocaust, or something along that line. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:52, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would prefer that, even if only to avoid WP:UNDUE claims in this article. Debresser (talk) 15:31, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage in Auschwitz 

message: In the section Implications for Jewish Ritual, don't forget to add AM 5776, the 19th year of the cycle, and Gregorian year 2016 CE. Please. 2601:401:C400:357:985:79B4:8920:1D07 (talk) 23:59, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:55, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I know that in 5776(2016), which was the 19th year of the cycle, Passover was late by a month.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:401:C400:357:985:79B4:8920:1D07 (talk) 02:51, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2018 

message: This short section is problematic to say the least and it makes no mention of the debate around the opinion that is expressed well by Rachel Elior that a solar calendar of 364 days was used up to the Seleucid period when it was replaced by a Greek lunar calendar on the orders of Antiochus IV. The biblical evidence is more in congruence with a solar calendar starting in the Spring with what later came to be known as Nissan.
Alan3278 (talk) 21:35, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The Bible isn't reliable history, see WP:RSPSCRIPTURE. Tgeorgescu (talk) 03:48, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basic chronology in the Biblical period 

message: The plural of יאָרצײַט is יאָרצײַטן‎, so the transcription should be changed to yahrzeitn (to remain close to the Yiddish form) or maybe yahrzeiten (which is closer to the modern German plural). --84.167.153.120 (talk) 12:20, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: And what is it now? I don't see this word in the article. Debresser (talk) 21:42, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I wrote it in Yiddish but it is written in Latin script in the article as Yahrzeits, which is a non-Yiddish plural. --84.167.153.120 (talk) 14:27, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Found it, thanks. Don't know what to say. On the one hand, the Yiddish plural is as you say with an "n", but in America many would use the "s"  like in English. As far as I am concerned it is not a big deal, and either way works for me. Debresser (talk) 22:25, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your reply. I think it is not worth editing the article just for this one word but it would be nice if someone did this alongside some other edit (like fixing the other points I mentioned below), therefore not creating one more unnecessary article version because of one word. --84.167.153.120 (talk) 12:44, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The plural of the Yiddish word יאָרצײַט is יאָרצײַטן‎, but the plural of the English word yahrzeit is yahrzeits. The article contains the English word, not the Yiddish word. AJD (talk) 15:20, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yahrzeit 

message: There is no reason not to name the scholar whose position this article informs us about. The reference is an article by Solomon Gandz, so I assume (being to read nothing more than a preview page) it is him and not someone quoted in his article. As the article is protected, I cannot change this myself. --84.167.153.120 (talk) 12:44, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  ″One scholar″ 

message: In the wake of a edit war between two users over calendar drift calculations, I went and checked the calculations on both pages. I've confirmed the assertions using exact calculations:
* The average Hebrew year length is 235/19 * (29 + 13753/25920) = 35975351/98496 = 365.24682220597794 days (rounded).
* The average Gregorian year length is 365 + 97/400 = 365.2425 days.
* Thus, the difference between Hebrew and Gregorian is ~0.004322206 days, or 1 day in ~231.363 years. (Exact value according to Wolfram Alpha is 10643/2462400 days.)
* Similarly, taking a tropical year length of 365.2422 days gives the difference as ~0.004622 days, or 1 day in ~216.3 years (using 365.24219 gives ~215.9 years).
I'm not sure what the claim about "Hebrew Calendar Science and Myths" being an index page is about, but it's straightforward to find the claims in "The Accuracy of the Hebrew Calendar" and "The Relative Rate of the Hebrew Calendar" if you scroll down. Arcorann (talk) 11:55, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Calendar drift calculations 

message: I'm sure that this
:Molad Nisan 5779 = 01:25 \tfrac{17}{18} Friday, 5 April 2019
makes sense to some readers but for the rest of us, would someone please explain the meaning of \tfrac{17}{18}? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:16, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps I can help. According to Hebrew_calendar#Day_and_hours, the Jewish minute is divided not into 60 seconds, but into 18 parts (in Hebrew "helek", plural "halakim"). Debresser (talk) 20:21, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. My first assumption was "fractions of a minute" but I decided that would be too far-fetched!  --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:21, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Curious fractions need explanatory note 

message: The Julian and Gregorian calendars are part of the category Calendars. Why isn't this calendar part of the category Calendars?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.132.240 (talk) 04:44, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I took a look. You are wrong; neither Julian calendar nor Gregorian calendar are a part of :Category:Calendars. Instead, both articles (as well as this one) have their own, self-titled categories. SkyWarrior 04:49, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories 

message: When did the last 19 year cycle begin in the Hebrew calendar? 90.241.152.219 (talk) 12:17, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This year is 5782. Dividing by 19 gives us 304. 304 * 19 = 5776. Which also means that this is the 6th year of the 305th cycle. Debresser (talk) 21:27, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  19 year cycles 

message: I have always had trouble with the statement that four month are named in the Bible (Aviv, Ziv, Ethanim and Bul). My problem with that statement is that the words "Aviv" and "Ethanim" are preceded in those verses by the definite article (he hayedia), indicating that those are adjectives, not nouns like names of months should be. Debresser (talk) 18:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Month names in the bible 

message: Could someone with edit access please add the shwa to תִּשׁרִי Tishri in the table under History. --188.28.96.91 (talk) 12:16, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Ar2332 (talk) 07:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  shwa in Tishri 

message: Please change "mounted up" to "amounted", as the current wording isn't normal English. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 06:41, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Handmeanotherbagofthemchips (talk) 13:28, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2022 

message: "Calculation of the Samaritan calendar has historically been a secret reserved to the priestly family alone, and it is based upon the conjunction of the sun and the moon."
Sources: #1 Crown, Alan. "The Samaritans". Page 700. 1989. #2 Mills, John. "Three Months Residence at Nablus, and an Account of the Modern Samaritans". Page 240. 1864. SaturnsThorn (talk) 16:51, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Under the Samaritan Calendar heading, it says that the Samaritan calendar is based upon "observations of the new crescent moon". This is not correct. The Samaritan method is based upon the "conjunction of the moon and sun". This is the day before the sliver of the crescent moon. The first day of the Samaritan month is when the moon is completely dark and invisible from our point of view. My sources are Sylvia Powells's article in Alan Crown's book, "The Samaritans" and John Mills's book "Three Months Residence at Nablus".  SaturnsThorn (talk) 04:10, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  It would be better if you could draft the sentence you propose should replace the existing one. One of us will append the citations. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:12, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 22 September 2023 

message: After your latest edit, the article reads:  That still doesn't make sense. Should it read 
Would that help? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 00:32, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The sentence is actually: "Each calendar year begins with Rosh Hashanah, so adjusting the length of the year is equivalent to moving the date of the next Rosh Hashanah.", which makes perfect sense. Don't see reason to change this. Debresser (talk) 00:53, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: But the date of Rosh Hashanah is always 1 Tishrei, by definition. So no matter how long the preceding year is, the date of the next Rosh Hashanah will not be moved: it will still be 1 Tishrei. So no, it doesn't make perfect sense. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:50, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  That is clear enough from the present text, IMHO. Let's ask  for his opinion. Debresser (talk) 19:19, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to me that we could avoid the confusion about the word "date" by saying  Nevertheless I don't think this section has yet reached peak clarity, so I may want to change the sentence more dramatically later. Ar2332 (talk) 10:30, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe moving the day is the key item? Because, as I have already explained, it doesn't (and can't) mean moving the date. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I does mean moving the date, just according to the Gregorian calendar, and that is clear enough form the context, IMHO. Debresser (talk) 02:32, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is more or less what I wrote at the beginning. In an article about the Hebrew calendar, the meaning the word "date" (given without qualification) defaults to the Hebrew date (e.g. 1 Tishrei). Accordingly, I have revised the text to read  My original "Each Hebrew calendar year begins ..." was a redundant qualification given the article topic, so I am happy to drop that aspect. I hope we can agree that this is a reasonable compromise. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:13, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sure. Debresser (talk) 15:51, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rosh Hashanah postponement rules 

message: I am considering deleting the following paragragh:
:There is no clock in the Jewish scheme, so that the local civil clock is used. Although the civil clock, including the one in use in Israel, incorporates local adoptions of various conventions such as time zones, standard times and daylight saving, these have no place in the Jewish scheme. The civil clock is used only as a reference point—in expressions such as: "Shabbat starts at ...". The steady progression of sunset around the world and seasonal changes results in gradual civil time changes from one day to the next based on observable astronomical phenomena (the sunset) and not on man-made laws and conventions.
As I see it, it says basically nothing of substance that's non-obvious. It's also very likely wrong, in that the molad/chalakim system is effectively a clock, and shaot zemaniot were apparently used as a crude clock in ancient times. Does anyone disagree and see a reason to keep the paragraph or part of it? Ar2332 (talk) 10:38, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed deletion

message: RAmerica011 (talk) 07:35, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 07:44, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2023 

message: Is anyone going to fix the error with the forth day in the weeks section of the article. 78.147.168.178 (talk) 06:05, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: In the English equivalent of, Yom Revil, the fourth day should be, sunset on Tuesday to sunset on Wednesday 78.147.168.178 (talk) 06:12, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

text: —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 22:56, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 11 February 2024 

message: I see that the Four Gates section once again claims that the "four gates" refer to the four different categories of years: this year a leap followed by two regular years, a regular year followed by a leap year followed by a regular year, etc. That is, the vertical columns in the chart. There is even at least one reference that would seem to support that.  
Nevertheless, this is a mistake. The "four" in Four Gates refers to the four different possible days for Rosh Hashanah. We know this because the concept of ד' שערים, Four Gates, originates in the writings of the Gaonim, and that is how they referred to them.  
For several examples, see Sacha Stern's book *The Jewish Calendar Controversy*. See Aharon ben Meir's first letter, and especially p. 159 where he quotes the Sefer Hamoadim, "the traditions of the 1st Gate are 491, 408, and 204; the traditions of the 2nd Gate are 695 and 204; the traditions of the 3rd Gate are six hours and 204; and the traditions of the 4th Gate are 491, 204 and 589..." Those correspond on the chart to the chalakim numbers for Shabbos, Thursday, Tuesday, and Monday.  
I've removed a couple of words in the document that make that mistake, and a comment on one of references which is "Original Research" and mistaken too. MikeR613 (talk) 19:08, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Four gates 

message: The passover date is on the 14th day at even (sunset) not the 15 day as stated herein. The 14th starts at sunset, Saying the passover is on the 14th day at even just means it starts right at the beginning of the day, not the end of the day which would be going int thew 15th.
Lev 23:5
In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. 2607:FEA8:4D41:8800:E8D4:8159:8BAB:6208 (talk) 21:51, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 22:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2024