Talk:Ocarina

message: I originally wrote, "The instrumental break in the The Troggs's 1966 hit song "Wild Thing" contains an aggressive ocarina solo..."; Sonjaa deleted "aggressive". I don't think the deletion is merited; "aggressive" is not a purely subjective evaluation. "Wild Thing" is a primitivistic, proto-Punk song, and the ocarina break is played in that spirit. There might be a better adjective ("emphatic"? "rowdy"?), but please let's do better than a bare bland reference. --David Sewell 02:02, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[The Troggs]] - [[Wild Thing (song)|Wild Thing]]

message: The sweet potato is only one variety of ocarina, made popular by legend of zelda: ocarina of time. It is not synonmous with ocarinas in general.
:The word ocarina was coined, in 19th Century Italy, to refer to what today are called sweet potato ocarinas.  The sweet potato was not originally popularized by Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, though said video game certainly led to a revival of popularity in some quarters.  But you are right that it ought to be noted that the term sweet potato is more specific than ocarina, in modern usage, as ocarina is widely used to refer to any vessel flute with a whistle mouthpiece. Aaron Walden 
:Could it be possible to add a more or less comprehensive list of different types of ocarinas (perhaps with photos of each)? Ocarinas certainly come in many shapes and sizes and base notes and ranges. For example the ocarinas at http://www.hindocarina.com/ are rather different from "standard" ones. Also this link shows a quite comprehensive list of different types of ocarina by the amount of holes: http://www.stlocarina.com/ocarina-by-type.html
Here is a better list:
*Transverse Ocarinas (also known as Sweet Potato, Classical, or Zelda) these are the "Modern" day ocarinas. The name derives from the finger system where the ocarina is held like a Transverse flute. The real name for this is a Transverse ocarina, but many people call it a "Sweet Potato" because it's body, naturally looks like a Sweet Potato
*Inline Ocarinas are ocarinas are similar to a recorder. This type of ocarina is shaped more like a rectangle then a transverse ocarina. The fingering system looks similar to the recorder as well. The major difference bettwen the recorders fingering system is that the ocarina has 2 different rows of holes, instead of one big row. I am actually going to add a picture of an inline to the gallery, to show the difference.
*Pendant Ocarinas (Also known as Necklace ocarinas) are very common ocarinas. It has a circular shape and a whistle mouthpiece. Most Pendants are for beginers, rather then advanced players. Although there are more advanced pendant's the most common pendant ocarinas have only 4 holes and are actually harder to play, due to having a combination finger system instead of a logical system (going up all the holes in order) 
*Peruvian Ocarinas (Also known as Painting Ocarinas) are not technically a classification. They are only classified because of how the Peruvian Ocarinas are unique. Peruivan Ocarinas are made out of cheap clay, and have paintings on it. Another thing is that these ocarinas also have 8 holes (6/2 system) usually with all the holes the same size (Typically making the ocarina flat)
*Double/Triple Ocarinas (Also known as Chambered Ocarina) a Double or a Triple ocarina is made with two to three different chambers. This allows the player to play monophonic pieces, or polyphonic. Usually Ocarinists only blow into one chamber, but to make an extra sound, blow into both chambers at the same time. These ocarinas also have more holes (naturally) Usually around 16 to 24 holes. 
I'll add a more detailed list into this article later on. Maybe tomorrow? Gliabrant 22:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sweet potato 

message: I clarified a statement, but want others to check it please! It says that one style of Ocarina is called the Sweet Potato. I looked through my materials and ocarina music and I see "sweet potato ocarina", which is what I changed it too. Otherwise some less-intelligent browser may think the term "sweet potato" means an instrument exclusively... or maybe I don't have enough faith in humanity?
Liastnir 05:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sweet potato 

message: Fans of video games tend to be devout to their supporting games, and not seeing their favorite game with ocarina appearance on the list makes them add it. The list has grown to a significant size -- too much for an ocarina article, I believe. I know that the list is never meant to be comprehensive, but I don't think that would convince the users who add the games. An incomplete list makes users want to add more to it, but since we can't let the list to grow forever, I am proposing to delete the list completely before the growing list gets out of hand; with the exception of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time which has the instrument in its title and might be notable. But even so, we don't have to mention all of its roles. I think just "various magical tasks" would be fine. --朝彦 (Asahiko) 01:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree completely. I have removed all fancruft from the article per wikipedia policy on cruft. Ck lostsword|queta!|Suggestions? 22:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appeance in video games 

message: This article references "older boys". Older relative to what?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.175.230 (talk) 00:39, 10 December 2006
Ah, the curse of absolute relativity and bad vocabulary!  "Older boy" is common English (US & UK both) parlance for a teenager.  It doesn't require comparison.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.10.107.12 (talk) 03:05, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Older boys" 

message: I worked on cleaning up and therefore re-organizing the article this evening.  I removed some redundancies and re-categorized some things.  Please look it over and carefully consider my changes.  I think it looks a little better now.  Thanks! -RobbyPrather (talk) 08:59, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As part of my clean-up effort, I have moved the references to the Wikipedia:Footnotes format (places the references at the end of the document, with links to said refs throughout the text). Details are at that link. -RobbyPrather (talk) 09:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Removed without any objections Barkeep 20:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about the trivia sections? I'd say we only keep those items where the ocarina plays a central and exceptional part. I can understand why you'd want to have Ocarina of Time in there; on the other hand listing every song played on an ocarina seems odd. Do we have articles containing all songs played on the violin? I hope not. Anyway, with "central" I mean it should not be some reference on the side, but if it's e.g. a movie, it should be central to the plot. With "exceptional" I mean that it should be exceptional within the field that the ocarina features in such a central (as defined before) role, so music won't do, since the ocarina is a musical instrument and therefore songs played on the ocarina are to be expected. But a book would qualify. I hope I'm making sense. Shinobu 21:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning Up and Re-organizing 

message: Was it an ocarina being played in Pokemon 2000?Joeldipops 11:50, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in Media 

message: the tone is dependent on the ratio of the total surface area of opened holes to the total cubic volume
That is to say: f ~ A / V (?)
Does anyone know what the constant of proportionality is? If the formula I guessed is correct, it must be dimensionless m/s, and probably depends on the medium, which would normally be air. Considering the unit I guess the speed of sound in that medium will factor in. Shinobu 21:43, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exact formula? 

message: This article needs more information on the various fingerings (John Taylor, modern Japanese, ...) and the mathematics behind them. Shinobu 00:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know all of the ocarina fingerings I'll add them all in the article. Gliabrant 22:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fingerings? 

message: Could someone add some information about nose-bending? I would, only I have no idea how it works, but its certainly effective and gives my ocarina a greater range. Francis Davey (talk) 17:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nose bending 

message: I've removed the detail of the range of the Ocarina in the Zelda game, as it is unsourced, and has to be untrue.  It stated that the ocarina ranged from B to F, but this cannot be the case, as the notes corresponding to UpC and A on the controller are an octave apart, and the player can extend this to one semitone more on either side with the analog stick, for a total of 15 semitones.  Further, the game itself, which plays extended versions of the songs, sometimes plays outside the player's range, up to six semitones above the player for Zelda's Lullaby, for a total of 21 semitones.  Some extra ones are added on the bottom for the Nocturne of Shadow, but not so many as to push the ocarina's rage up to three-and-a-half octaves.  In any case, the range doesn't fit for B to F, though I have no source which says what it actually is.  Reveilled (talk) 18:03, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Ocarina of Time 

message: I removed recent history, as it really only has three things in it. One is a reference to 1900, if you can consider 108 years ago "recent" history. The other one was an entry with a bunch of 'citation needed" tags on it, so removed that. That left pretty much zelda which would just be misplaced. That brings me to the other edit; I removed the "see also" in ocarina of time, as this is a music article on an instrument and to lead to an article on a video game is ridiculous. I do not think the fact that most people relate ocarina's to ONE video game as a reason to infringe on actual content on the ocarina; its selective and unencyclopedic. Articles are meant to cover their subject and to inform people content on that subject, not reinforce people's only knowledge on that subject through an unrelated subject.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.76.60.163 (talk) 20:04, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed recent history 

message: None of the following links seem to fit into our external link guidelines I have moved them here for discussion to see if WP:CONSENSUS provides otherwise for any of the links. -- The Red Pen of Doom 21:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  external links 

message: *The link to the Ocarina Room seems to satisfy the question "Is the site content proper in the context of the article (useful, tasteful, informative, factual, etc.)," and the "Links normally to be avoided" criteria. Barkeep Chat | $ 14:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: discussion

message: Ocarina born in Italy when Donati invented it, around the 19th century. Before that, the Ocarina didn't exist. We cannot write bullshits such as: "Both the Mayans and Aztecs had produced versions of the ocarina, but it was the Aztecs who brought the song and dance that accompanied the ocarina to Europe. The ocarina went on to become popular in European communities as a toy instrument.". 
That is disinformation. In addition, I let you know that in the Mediterranean lands similar instruments and toys existed ever since the VII millenniums BCE, and the same Sardinians, Egyptians, Etruscans, Greeks and Romans had flutes of different size, shape and material (terracotta, bone, ivory, wood, reed etc.) such as fistulas and so on. But they were not versions of the Ocarina. As I wrote, the Ocarina was invented by Donati. 
--Karanko 02:53, 7 Jan 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't call the information about the Mayans and Aztecs "bullshit" or "disinformation" since it is cited from a reliable source per WP:V. If you would like to further dispute this claim, either here in the talk page or in the article, or if you would like to add further information please do so while providing proper citations. Barkeep Chat | $ 14:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

text: It is unfortunate that Karanko has expressed himself in such aggressive terms, because doing so tends to antagonise others, and discourage them from considering any merit there may be in what he says. However, it does seem to me that it is questionable how far the word "ocarina" applies to similar instruments before Donati. It seems to me that the word is normally used only for the modern instrument, and while it is reasonable for the article to mention earlier similar instruments, the wording should perhaps be altered to indicate this. JamesBWatson (talk) 23:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it a page about the Ocarina? Or about other instruments? 

message: (See also the discussion above) The claim was made until my recent edit that the Ocarina is 15000 years old. The citation to back up this claim that the Ocarina is 12000 years old, so I corrected the article to that effect. That particular citation isn't very good though - it's very short and doesn't back up *its* sources. There are several other references, with rather divergent claims. Some of these are by people who sell the instruments. Given that this is a relatively unknown musical instrument, I can see there being some motivation to exaggerate claims of antiquity. Any academic paper we can refer to? I do propose severely toning down the claims of antiquity until more solid sources can be found. Martijn Faassen (talk) 18:43, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antiquity of the Ocarina 

message: Merely creating a place for discussion. The proposal was made by Caerwine in July 2008 (dif & dif). - Ev (talk) 21:17, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I can find no evidence that the spelling has significant use in English. We do not mention every foreign word for the topic of every article, and I see no reason to make an exception in this case. The idea of mentioning as  a type has more merit, but I can see nothing particularly distinctive about the Ukrainian ocarina. It is "made of clay with seven or eight and sometimes ten finger-holes", which is well within the range of ocarinas made elsewhere. In fact, there is nothing at all in the article about it to suggest that it is a distinct type at all. JamesBWatson (talk) 11:04, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I can gather, there is an argument that the word "ocarina" only dates to C19th Italy, and so should not be applied to earlier instruments such as those of Ukraine.  However it seems that the word "ocarina" is now used as a generic term for all such instruments, and in writing an encyclopedia we should reflect current usage.  If there were to be a separate article on the Ukrainian instrument it should probably be at "zozulka" rather than "okaryna", but I would think it more appropriate for these terms just to redirect to the current article as they are not widely used in English.  I note that the Ukrainian Wikipedia has separate articles for Окарина ("okarina") and Зозулка ("zozulka") but neither is more than a stub.  The Polish Wikipedia is the only place I can find the spelling "okaryna" — the article refers to "zozulka" in the "see also" section but this is a red link.  --Deskford (talk) 11:48, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge discussion: [[Okaryna]] into [[Ocarina]]

message: While the article is very informative and goes into the history and design of the ocarina, I can't help but think that it needs a reference to Legend of Zelda. In popular culture, the ocarina is known little, if at all, outside of the fact that Link plays it. There seems to be some sort of collaboration amongst editors to keep any reference to the Ocarina of Time off this page. Obviously, there is at least some justification behind not further reinforcing a pop-culture stereotype about an instrument.
I must reccomend however, that a mention be given to the video game popularizing the instrument. It is common for ocarina manufacturers to produce replicas of the ocarina of time. The game also contributes to a lack of knowledge as to ocarina designs other than the sweet potato.
If you feel that such a mention affects the integrity of the article, feel free to include a sourced remark resenting the undue weight the video games carries when discussing an ocarina.
Also, please do not remove sourced content without first challenging it; I may be wrong, however when reading over the talk page it appears that sourced content has been introduced and arbitrarily removed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.66.191.116 (talk) 20:04, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legend of Zelda 

message: Can someone include this in the article, or at least include it in the article on the Xun? Ailes Grises (talk) 22:40, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation of Xun

message: This article refers to the ocarina as an instrument only. It is neither introduced, nor discussed as a toy. Why then is it in the toy project? Tjohnso (talk) 01:44, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It does make the referenced statement "the ocarina went on to become popular in European communities as a toy instrument." BarkeepChat 05:07, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There are toy versions of almost all instruments. That does not make the instrument a toy in general. It would be like putting a stethoscope in the toy project because there are toy versions... not to mention swords, cars, etc. Tjohnso (talk) 17:22, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but toy stethoscopes, swords, and cars are nothing like the real thing. A toy ocarina is just like a "real" one, except it's made from cheaper materials. Eman235/talk 19:35, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears  added the project template and may be able to shed some light on the rationale. BarkeepChat 17:46, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the article refers to its history as a toy instrument, and the article is included in  and , I included it in . I don't claim to know anything more about the subject matter, but that was almost 4 years ago, and no one has questioned it until now. Fortdj33 (talk) 01:04, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Rational For Project Classification

message: What does this have to do with sweet potatoes?
--180.72.31.204 (talk) 10:28, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: For once, the infobox actually has some useful information in it. The term "sweet potato" is identified there as an "alternative name" for the instrument. Perhaps this fact should be stated somewhere in the article itself?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 15:35, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Ocarina#Types explains that "sweet potato" is used to refer to transverse ocarinas like the one in the infobox, as opposed to pendant ocarinas or end-blown ones. I see no evidence that they are ever just referred to as "sweet potatoes", though. Eman235/talk 17:58, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Umm...? 

message: The listed pronunciation is wrong.  Every primary source I've checked (e.g. dictionary.com) indicates ocarina is pronounced with a short O sound.  I corrected this a while back, but it's been reverted back to the incorrect long O pronunciation.  http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ocarina?s=t https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ocarina 12.37.58.186 (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for bringing this here for discussion. I've seen this being switched back and forth between the two pronunciations several times recently. Better that we discuss it here and try to reach some kind of consensus rather than perpetual edit-warring. I agree with you (and the dictionaries you cite) in that I would pronounce it with the short O sound, but maybe some speakers in some variants of English pronounce it with the long O? If that is the case, we should probably indicate that it can be pronounced either way, but we would really need a source to back up the alternative pronunciation. If no such source can be found, I would support just giving the short O pronunciation. --Deskford (talk) 22:00, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I didn't add anything about how it may or may not have contributed to its popularity, but I did add a piece in the "Cultural References" section about how it featured prominently in the game Ocarina of Time and linked that to the respective wiki page.
ShakurasEnder (talk) 17:55, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ... yeah I did the same. Saw that it wasn't in cultural references, wrote a few sentences. Hopefully keeping it short, contained in that section, and with citations for the range/popularity claims will help it stick this time. 2406:E000:6F81:7E01:29CB:47D2:9035:5F08 (talk) 12:15, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural Reference 

message: I'm the owner of pureocarinas.com, just to note that I've shortened most of the URL's on the website. They should 301 redirect to the same page. Also, I am the author of Serious Ocarina Player and my name is given incorrectly as 'Richard Hickman', I'm Robert Hickman.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:3884:4601:6581:D463:1C14:9BEA (talk) 01:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed the error. RoostTC(please ping me when replying) 01:56, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: URL changes

message: While there are plenty of illustrations of the instrument, there are none of anyone playing them to show how they work. 
--Zeamays (talk) 18:01, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Lack of relevant illustration of their usage