Talk:Jon Driver

message: It is proposed as consensus that the Jon Driver article be restored to the  by Von Restorff which contains as text
Driver was born in Halifax, England on 4 July 1962.[1] He was brought up in Hull. Driver had a wife and two sons.[2]
Driver died on 28 November 2011 after apparently jumping from the Hornsey Lane Bridge in North London.[1][3]. It is further proposed that if this information is not restored at this time that a specific date in the future be set when this information be added to the article, not exceeding one year after death.Naraht (talk) 11:28, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: @Naraht: Why do you think you should focus your attention on this page? You are needed elsewhere. I can handle this, but I do not understand very complicated mathematical articles. We have hundreds (or thousands) of articles that need to be looked at by someone who understand complicated mathematical formulas. Von Restorff (talk) 13:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: My guess is that you've looked back at my contributions to find that I've done a few articles on Mathematics. You'll find more such as   in regard to WP:Censor. I would submit that the entire concept of WP:Persondata indicates that location of death is important. I am also working on improving the article in other ways. And it has been more than 48 hours since your indication that you wanted the mention of suicide removed for 48 hours. Should it be brought back now or once the article has sat in the current situation for 48 hours? How can one person control what is on an article without compromising the founding pillars? I am *trying* to seek consensus in a formal manner.Naraht (talk) 15:01, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Your guess is wrong, the third userbox on your userpage says: "This user is an advanced mathematician". To be honest, what you are trying to do is not the same as what you are doing. Did you read WP:Persondata? You must have missed "Be specific, but not to the point of listing a street address. Usual formats are City/Village, State/Province, Country; or City/Village, country; or State/Province, Country; etc." because you want to include the name of the bridge. Von Restorff (talk) 15:04, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

text: Jimbo, the Times of London, the respectable source, mentions the manner of death at the bottom of the article. Naraht (talk) 16:02, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite; there is no more reliable newspaper in the UK than The Times and that states, in bold, that Driver's death was suicide. If mentioning this is so hurtful why does the family blog, here, link to the Times report? I would add a couple of other points; though we have assumed good faith about the identity of the user; are we sure about this? Certainly the passage above causes me to have doubts. Secondly, are we now going to remove encyclopaedic material from other pages at the request of connected people? Finally, the 'This is London' website is written by the same jounalists as write the Daily Mail. The mode of death should go back, at least using the same words as 'The Times' used. TerriersFan (talk) 16:31, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no objection has been raised after over four days, I have added the cause of death as reported by The Times. TerriersFan (talk) 22:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Against consensus. Bad move. Von Restorff (talk) 00:10, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I made a proposal to put Drivers suicide in the article, in a way as Jimbo says "the way the best sources have handled the question" - no objection, except from you, has been made. TerriersFan (talk) 00:29, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Where? And where is the consensus? If you would've had consensus for the changes you made it would've been easy to answer these two simple questions. Von Restorff (talk) 00:36, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Specific Consensus

message: Only one editor appears to feel we should not report what the best available source - The Times - has reported, so I have restored TerriersFan's suggested edit. Exok (talk) 19:51, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Exok. Include details on death.Naraht (talk) 13:11, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

text: The cause of death should be included. Von Restorff has just removed it again. TerriersFan (talk) 15:39, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have just added this wholly reliable source from The Daily Telegraph which states "Jon Driver suffered fatal injuries after jumping from Hornsey Lane Bridge, Archway, north London." TerriersFan (talk) 13:20, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to try to get a new consensus (consensus can change), but please respect the BRD process. Thanks in advance, Von Restorff (talk) 19:44, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Von Restorff, please follow your own advice above. You do not have a single supporter of your position. TerriersFan (talk) 18:05, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You must be aware of the fact you do not have consensus for your addition to this article. You made a bold move, I reverted, and we discussed the change here on this talkpage. The result of the discussion is that there is no consensus for your addition. Stop editwarring and drop your stick. You tried to ignore the consensus before (22:34, 17 January). I notice you still have not answered the questions I asked on 00:36, 18 January. Von Restorff (talk) 18:44, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

text: LOL. I like the essay WP:COMPETENCE. Please recount, you obviously made a mistake. You forgot to count those who disagree with you. I notice you still have not answered the questions I asked on 00:36, 18 January. Von Restorff (talk) 04:18, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

text: LOL. Funny how you exclude all the editors who gave their opinion more than 2 weeks ago and disagree with you. Do you honestly think you can simply decide that opinions given more than 14 days ago are worthless? Among those who gave their opinion more than 2 weeks ago and disagree with you is the founder of this encyclopaedia; does his opinion not count because you say so? Von Restorff (talk) 04:14, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I stopped finding this funny when you started deleting mentions valid mentions of 3RR from your talk page. "Previous Consensus" is not a valid reason for ignoring 3RR and Jimbo would be the first to indicate that his opinion means no more than any other single Wikipedia user.Naraht (talk) 11:08, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I stopped finding this funny after reading the article about karma. Jimbo is a single Wikipedia user AFAIK but please correct me if I am wrong. Ignoring 3RR wouldn't be necessary if you would both be willing to use the talkpage before reverting and willing to drop your sticks. Von Restorff (talk) 13:25, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

text: The 'consensus' that you are fond of mentioning existed only in your own mind; at best there was previously a divided opinion. Jimbo's comment was based on a misunderstanding as has been pointed out. He said (with the full quote above so it can be read in context) "We have 2 perfectly respectable sources, one local publication, and one tabloid with a sensationalist headline. The respectable sources are: The Times of London, which does not mention manner of death at all; .... But what I see here suggests to me that there is no reason to deviate from the way the best sources have handled the question". In fact 'The Times' did mention that it was suicide and 'The Daily Telegraph', which I have now added has likewise. In other words, the two best news sources both mention the manner of death. TerriersFan (talk) 13:04, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

text: If you read the full quote it is clear he is against including the information that you want to include. I notice you still have not answered the questions I asked on 00:36, 18 January. Von Restorff (talk) 13:25, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: New discusssion

message: I moved the BNA obituary reference to the Career and Honors section. I think it belongs in those two locations (and handles a citation needed). While it of course includes Date of Death, I think the Daily Mail and Times are better references at that location in the article. I don't believe this move of reference alters the larger question above in any way however.Naraht (talk) 19:39, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This is an improvement. Von Restorff (talk) 04:32, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  British Neuroscience Association Obituary. 

message: Should the text ", FMedSci, FBA" in the beginning of the article directly behind his name be bold? Do we just bold the name of the person or the titles too? Von Restorff (talk) 05:25, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bold text 

message: We are using the Hull Daily Mail reference for the sentence: "He was survived by his wife and two sons".
Unfortunatly that source does not mention the fact his children are both male. It does say the childrens names are Neil and Shoni. I think that in my part of the world it is not unreasonable to assume that being named Neil is an indication that you are probably a male, but Shoni is a name that is probably more commonly used for females (e.g. Shoni Schimmel) but it has been used for males as well and the name itself is not enough to determine the sex of the person.
I believe this reference doesn't belong in the place it is in now, if you can find a place where it will be more useful feel free to reinclude it. We do not need to use this source, we already have the Times reference that says: "He is survived by his wife and two sons". Nota bene: the Hull Daily Mail says: "The exact cause of his death in (sic) unclear". Von Restorff (talk) 05:51, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Children 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Jon Driver. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120904140556/http://www.icn.ucl.ac.uk/attention/cvs/jdrivercv.pdf to http://www.icn.ucl.ac.uk/attention/cvs/jdrivercv.pdf
*Added archive https://archive.is/20121224055206/http://www.bna.org.uk/news/view.php?permalink=4WD5XG8W26 to http://www.bna.org.uk/news/view.php?permalink=4WD5XG8W26
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:32, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified