Talk:The Grand Old Duke of York

message: Taken from my own knowledge, but dates and battle scenes pinpointed by The Oxford Companion to British History (Ed by John Cannon, 2002)
Simon
Wakefield suggests that the rhythm refers to a much older battle in 1460 at Wakefield, where Richard, Duke of York (father of Edward IV of England was defeated. Anyone know which is right? Timrollpickering 00:34, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: An anon has added that Richard, Duke of York is the same Richard of York as in the rainbow mnemonic, ROYGBIV ("Richard of York gave battle in vain").  I must admit that I had thought that ROYGIV referred to Richard III, but I can see that the other Richard of York is also a possibility.  Can anyone help sort this out?  -- ALoan (Talk) 15:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

message: Can't claim a source, however we've learned this to be the second verse of the song:
He marched them to the left.
He marched them to the right.
And then he marched them upside down,
Oh what a funny sight!
theeverlastingblogspot.com adds from her childhood 
The Grand Old Duke of York
Then had five hundred men
He marched them in and out of the woods
And he marched them in again
And some turned to the left
And some turned to the right
And some marched all about the woods
'Till day turned into night
The Grand Old Duke of York
His men were half asleep
He marched them through a river but
The river was too deep
And some of them did sink
And some of them did swim
And some did soundly shake his hand
And bid farewell to him
The Grand Old Duke of York
Had only twenty men
Fifteen marching through a farm
Were chased off by a hen
And two were lost in a barn
And two were lost in a sty
And the only soldier that was left
Ran off and waved good-bye!
The Grand Old Duke of York
He found himself alone
He sat right down on top of a drum
And there did weep and moan
And first he shed his sword
And then he shed his gun
And then he wished that all his travels
Never had begun
The Grand Old Duke of York
He heard a bugle sound
As he buckled on his sword and gun
His heart began to pound
He saw them in rows of five
He saw them in rows of ten
And they all lined up in front of him
'Till he had ten thousand men----  — Preceding unsigned comment added by EmeraldQueen001 (talk • contribs) 01:26, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional lyrics 

message: Until recently, this article said "It is sung to the tune of "A-Hunting We Will Go". Somebody removed this about 6 months ago. Because AHWWG has no Wikipedia article, this can be a challenge. Any discussion?? Georgia guy 20:14, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference should not have been removed merely because of the lack of a corresponding WP article. That's what red links are for: when the corresponding article does someday emerge, this one will automatically link to it. I think the useful reference should be restored, and encourage you to do so. --StanZegel   (talk) 13:55, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "A Hunting We Will Go" now redirects to this page - it is linked from other articles, such as "The Farmer in the Dell". There is essentially no information about "A Hunting We Will Go" here, or on any other page I can find. Definitely a hole which needs to be filled. 68.236.190.79 (talk) 00:03, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tune of TGODOY and AHWWG 

message: I learned a third verse, which was always sung.
Oh, a hunting we will go
A hunting we will go
We’ll catch a fox, and put him in a box
And then we’ll let him go.
Some research to substantiate this could improve the article. I wonder if it is linked to the association of this rhyme with AHWWG?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:E287:1901:E91F:FE4:6812:F0DD (talk) 09:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Extra verse

message: Removed this:
"HG - i believe it is about Richard III. He was the last King from the family of York, and usurped the throne in 1483. In the battle of Bosworth in 1485, in which he was killed by the army of Henry Tudor, he began as what many consider the stronger of the two, and took with him ten thousand men. He began the battle at the top of the hill and fought downwards ("he marched them up to the top of the hill and he marched them down again..."). Despite his larger army and advance, he lost."
Editor might well be right, but an encyclopaedia entry doesn't start with "I believe".  - Shrivenzale 19:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal Opinion 

message: Expect this to get reverted again as WP:MOSMUSIC calls for song titles to be in quotes, not "inverted commas" (around here we call this mark an apostrophe). --Gadget850 (talk) 00:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes 

message: "James II ... marched his troops to Salisbury Plain ..." No hills on Salisbury plain - please expand upon this tenious theory to maintain crdulity. Leegee23 (talk) 19:26, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: I am surprised that there is no mention of the most common reason for the attribution to the Napoleonic era Duke.  This has been taught to my knowledge in the British Army since my grandfather's day and was certainly taught to me.  The song was a sarcastic response of his fellow officers who objected to the fact that he was a keen professional and insisted that they forego their social lives to take part in manoeuvres, which they thought pointless.  He is widely regarded as the originator of formation (rather than individual and unit) training in the British Army. DickyP (talk) 13:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It is in the article. The big picture of his statue is a clue.--SabreBD (talk) 14:01, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

text: I didn't say there wasn't an attribution - what I pointed out the absence of the 'real' reason for the attribution to him: his significant place in the history of military training as a discipline. DickyP (talk) 15:13, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Then why not get a reliable source and put it in?--SabreBD (talk) 16:11, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  British army traditions are, as often as not, rarely dependable sources of attribution, and this would seem to be no exception. Frederick, Duke of York, did promote standardisation of drill procedures to allow the efficient movement of troops in large formations, but it was Major General David Dundas, the officer that devised the system,  who, known as "Old Pivot,' became the butt of some officers' humour. Whether or not it is deemed likely that Army officers  would sit down to pen satirical rhymes, it is clear from the multiple lyrics and no clear date of origin that,as with all nursery rhymes, a single historical point of origin can never be determined.
JF42 (talk) 13:32, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Most Common Attribution 

message: I have received a story that the song was sung by frustrated Continental soldiers in response to the drilling occuring after Washington engaged Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben. Anyone else? 2605:A601:46D:B01:CABC:C8FF:FEA5:82F4 (talk) 02:17, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  American Revolutionary protest song 

message: In my experience, it has often been sung with the action of the singers reversed in alternate renditions, or in renditions chosen at random (or by an undisclosed pattern) and announced by the Leader.  Or reversed for half of the participants, or with either the Leader or the others moving the wrong way.  In any case, the chaos is thereby increased.  94.30.84.71 (talk) 21:13, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Actions 

message: Oh, the grand old Duke of York
He "had" ten thousand men; (teasing or mocking that he'd performed sexual acts with many males)
He marched them up to the top of the hill, (to have sexual relations)
And he marched them down again. (after the act)
When they were up, they were up, (when on the hill, they were erect)
And when they were down, they were down, (and when they came down, they weren't)
And when they were only halfway up, 
They were neither up nor down. (on the ascent, they were semi-erect, in anticipation.) --Dr zoidberg590 (talk) 00:09, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  This could have had a Double Meaning 

message: Following the Settlement of the Virginia Giuffre v. Prince Andrew case a satyrical version was developed.
Oh the Grand old Duke of York,
He had 12 million quid.
He gave it to someone he never met,
For something he never did.https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-andrew-ridiculed-aides-nursery-26281298
The edit above has been moved here pending discussion. There is no agreement on the reliability of the source cited and the article only says that the parody is "alleged" and "claimed". WP guidelines require a corroborative trustworthy source in such cases. It is questionable, anyway, whether topical items such as what is alleged are encyclopedically noteworthy in themselves; it will depend on whether the item remains so after the immediate occasion. As a precedent, items concerning former president Trump that were only briefly topical have routinely been deleted on WP and were so even during his term. Sweetpool50 (talk) 14:07, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. In fact, Daily Mirror is a tabloid, and tabloids are generally unreliable. Not to mention that the whole thing was rather trivial. Keivan.fTalk 15:12, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

text: I also agree. This is a minor jingle that somebody has made up that will be forgotten almost immediately. Wikipedia isn't the place for that type of transitory stuff. MichaelMaggs (talk) 16:17, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

text: It seems that the parody has now made it to the commercial sector as reported by Clashmusic.com. I've tagged the item as spam for the moment since the source and its commercial wording seems suspect. The IP editor responsible states that he "honestly" can't see a problem with it. Are there any more comments, , , ...others? Sweetpool50 (talk) 22:42, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think right now it is totally out of place. The article must discuss the actual rhyme first, and then references in the popular culture should appear at the very end. Keivan.fTalk 22:51, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture