Talk:Rugby union/Archive 1

message: Anyone agree with me that that's Jonny Wilkinson getting tackled in the picture at the top? Should the caption be changed? -Zsig
: Oh, my aching sides...
: actually, thinking about it, that one is quite funny.  Hig Hertenfleurst 20:18, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There were two other references to association football in this article a single change to soccer was inconsistent, however, after making the edit and then reflecting on it, I was going to change it back from simply football to 'association football', but I'm having trouble with my monitor at the moment, whereby it cuts out when it overheats, and it did so at that moment. So I'll make the change now. Also this article needs a rewrite from the top because the first paragraph is completely wrong, association football didn't exist in Webb-Ellis's time, and it is now generally accepted that the story is a complete myth anyway see William Webb-Ellis. With my monitor trouble I'm not currently making major edits to articles. Mintguy (T) 16:34, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Would any American write George bush?
Then why has this ludicrous naming concept been applied so that Rugby Union became categorised as Rugby union?  Same thing.  Rugby Union is the NAME of the sport and both words start with a capital letter.  --Jack 21:28, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rugby Union is a NAME 

message: : Rls 17:25, 2005 Mar 15 (UTC) I think the diagran serves as a useful overview to player positions in Rugby Union which is pretty integral to the sport and should not be relegated to the secondary article.
Because a rugby team is divided into two halves (forwards and backs), and therefore is dissimilar to many more traditional sports positions, there should be a diagram to explain this. Also, a diagram would help a reader unfamiliar with the game to understand the way the "don't pass forward" rule works. Misterpurple 19:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Include a player positions diagram in this article

message: :--Etimbo | Talk 11:59, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Do not include a player positions diagram in this article

message: Obviously Rugby union is far too big a topic to fit onto one page if you want to do anything more than simply scratch the surface.  I feel we need to break down the topic into several sub-articles and keep the main page short, infomative and objective with links off to the relevent sub-articles which go into more detail.  
Ideas for sub-articles:
RulesLaws (official ones)
Team positions and responsibilities
Info about tournaments, leagues etc.
Glossary (technical) scrum, ruck, maul, mark, lineout etc.
Glossary (tactical/player slang) up & under, hangtime, dump tackle, zig-zag etc.
History of the game
Rugby Sevens
Please do not make wholesale changes to articles like this without discussing it first. There may need to be changes made to the structure but you should not delete other people's work like this without a discussion. Also can you sign your posts in the discussion section using four '~' symbols.GordyB 10:11, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organisation for the Rugby Union section of Wiki 

message: I hope Gilbert made a decent donation to wikipedia in return for the prominent advertising of their product at top left of article. Nurg 12:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If there used to be a picture of a rugby ball, it might be a good idea to reinstate it for those who don't know what a 'prolate spheroid' looks like. Me, for example.Harry R 14:02, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Product "placement"

message: An article on this chap is now in VfD, anyone care too look and input on discussion, please see Wikipedia:Pages for deletion/Morgan Turinui. Alf 12:46, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Morgan Turinui]]

message: I've put this up for deletion. There have only been a couple of votes so far from non-regular contributors. Please vote.GordyB 11:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Anglo-Welsh Cup]]

message: Came across this today. I'm only the third member. Regular contributors might want to think about signing up.GordyB 17:23, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are now 13 members and the project is coming along nicely. Still room for more particpants.GordyB 15:37, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union]]

message: I had a skim through this and other articles when I wanted to wikilink the word "citing" in an article. I can't find anything on Wikipedia about this, nor much about refereeing. I have just glossed the term in the article for now ("ie, reported following a game for events during it"), but if there is something I can link to, so much the better.  Anyone happen to know? (Btw, if the rugby union portal is a better place to ask, just let me know, and I'll go there instead.) --Telsa ((t)(c)) 17:10, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Citing

message: I think the history of Rugby should be moved up in this article (and probably shortened a bit). I also think that the introduction should be more general (ie without references to forward passing etc). I'm just going to make a few changes - I'm not generally involved in this article, so I'm mentioning it here so that, if you disagree, we can discuss it. Cheers. Cormaggio @ 16:04, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: It probably the benchmark sports article on wiki!--HamedogTalk|@ 05:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great edits Hamedog, you made a huge improvement. I also shuffled some things around to try and replicate the look of the Cricket article. By the way, I removed two images, the field (reading disclaimers on official RU sites, its probably not the best idea to use their images) and the ball (claimed as Copyright but free to use, but I dont think it was an appropriate tag). But yeah, great contributions! Forever young 09:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Base article on [[cricket]] 

message: I thought that the backs were called "the girls".... Cheers!--Scaife (Talk)  Don't forget Hanlon's Razor 03:53, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: There has to be a better 'intro' photo than the one on there now with the scrum-half dive pass.  It does not capture the extent of the sport at all really.  If I've never heard of the game of rugby in any way, and someone gave me this picture and told me that 'this is rugby', I wouldn't hardly have any idea what it's about at all.  The composition of the photo, the spectator legs and the crowd control rope that bisects the entire picture, is rediculous.  Essentially two players pictured?  Why?  Just not a lot of thought put into that one.  The burnt grass and Will Carling and his wife on the picnic blanket?  Simply rediculous.
Some of the images people are putting in are very questionable. We also do not need to flood the article with images either. You cannot just upload any image and say it is 'promotional material' or 'public domain'.
I also removed the scrum and line-out images as they can be displayed in their respective main-articles.
Also, the RWC Cup image may also be questionable in terms of fair-use.
Cvene64Forever Young 04:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah good. Thats a really good image as well. Cvene64 10:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I put the Maul one back in, but can you provide the details on the image page of its location/licensing. Its a fantastic image, and contributes to the article a lot, it just needed the info on the image page. And what about the international photo, how/where is that promotional? Cheers.Cvene64 08:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: My response to the FAC nomination included some questions that came to me as I read the article. I've reproduced my comments below:
Object. Remember that a lot of people who use the English-language Wikipedia are Americans who most likely have never seen a rugby match. Try to put yourself in their shoes, turning on the international-sports channel and seeing a bunch of people seemingly running into each other aimlessly. Here are some specific things you should take note of:
* You should include something about strategy in the article. If you get 5 points for a try and only 3 for a penalty or drop goal, why do teams ever kick penalty or drop goals? And why do they kick the ball out of bounds so much?
* Is the 22-meter drop-out a drop kick? And who kicks the 22-meter drop out: the team that grounded the ball in the in-goal area or the team that kicked it there?
* You say the opposition cannot touch the ball in a ruck, but it appears the team can heel the ball. Do you mean they can't touch it with their hands?
* "Referees generally call scrums for knock-ons, where a player drops the ball forwards, a forward pass, or for other accidental infringements" -- does that mean that a knock-on is "when the player drops the ball forwards," or are those two different offenses? If the latter is the case, what's a knock-on?
* Shouldn't the "sin bin" be mentioned?
* You need to define what a scrum is, even though there is an article that gives more info on it.
* Do rugby teams have set plays in which they plan who's going to pass the ball to whom and where, like in American football, or is it all spontaneous?
** Good question. The answer is "Yes, sometimes".  There's more spontaeity than the NFL, because there are fewer stoppages from which to reset, but the #9 and #10 will often call a set move for their backs. Of course, while decoy runners are allowed, there's no legal blocking, so the number of possible permutations is cut down, and a set move will be limited to saying which player will try and break the defence, and what line he'll be running at the time (or, perhaps, to let the runners know there's going to be a kick to chase). Line-outs will also pre-planned moves as to who's going to move where, and where the ball is going to.
***Thanks. I think there ought to be a strategy section to explain things like this. When I've seen rugby on TV, it always looks like there must be some arrangement beforehand as to who's going to go where, because it often appears as if ball-carriers toss the ball without looking to see if someone is there. -- Mwalcoff 23:37, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My comments on [[WP:FAC]] 

message: I had to remove the images with the 2.0 CC license, recently found out Wikipedia do not accept them anymore. Cvene64 10:17, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of images

message: The times digital archive is available to the general public for the month of April. This allows wikipedia editors and researchers to source some fantastic information on the history of our topics. I have already found various articles of historical significance for rugby league and rugby union, but I suspect there are many more to be found.
I've found articles relating to:
* The professionalism circular of the RU
* Reports on the Resolutions of the RU pertaining to professionalism
* The Banning of huddersfield clubs
* The introduction/modification of rules to both RU and RL
* Many Many Many Results (although I did not keep these, they are not my interest)
* Reports of Rugby league in South Africa
* A single report on the Rugby league in Italy
And much much more.
===What you must do===
# Go HERE.
# Click on the Thomson Gale Power Search
# Click on the "Times Digital Archive" Link under "Aditional Databases"
POds 05:09, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Times Digital Archive

message: # Go HERE.
# Click on the Thomson Gale Power Search
# Click on the "Times Digital Archive" Link under "Aditional Databases"
POds 05:09, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What you must do

message: In The rugby union nations section, it says what the different teams are nicknamed. I disagree; the teams, or at least mny of them, are named whatever name is relevant. eg, The Australian Rugby Team are called the wallabies, not nicknamed. √αʑʑρεɾ 03:01, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if you look on the front of match programmes it says "Wales v. Australia", not "Dragons v. Wallabies".  They're official nicknames, but they are nicknames... GWO
This needs to be sorted one way or another. Jazzper is right - some of these are names more than nicknames. The All Blacks, Springboks and Wallabies, for example, are brand names, while I've never heard anyone refer to the Welsh national team as the Dragons [or to the Japanese as the Cherry Blossoms etc]. The WRU presumably agreed with me when they named one of their regional teams the Dragons. I'll wait for others' input - if nobody objects, 'the Dragons' is getting binned.
Hippo43 17:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

text: For a little while at least, Wales had "Dragons" emblazoned on one of their variant kits. An attempt was definitely made to get the brand to stick, but it never did, and was soon abandoned. -- GWO
I've moved this here - 
Hippo43 17:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The rugby union nations

message: In the opening paragraphs it talks about Rugby being the National sport in particular countries and a popular sport in other countries. Im not sure but wouldn't it be fair to say South Africa should be listed under countries where it is a national sport. I know South Africa is very good at many sports but it is a huge game and I am just not sure what would be ahead of it as the most popular sport.--Lummie 03:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the debate on that a national sport is is fundamental to this whole topic. It's a meaningless term for me, so how can people be getting so heated over something they can't even define? Is or isn't what? Some people like rugby, some people don't. Some governments support rugby more than other sports. Try defining 'national sport' before going any further. Greenman 10:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  National sport and South Africa 

message: I am referring to this passage:
:Note: in rugby union, unlike association football, the lines bordering the field of play are not completely regarded as out of play. For example, a player standing on but not over the touch line is regarded to be "in touch". Similarly the try line (and the goalposts) are considered part of the in-goal area, so a player may score a try by grounding the ball on the try line (or against the base of one of the posts).
In association football, the lines are part of the field, so the penalty area includes its delimiting lines, and so on.--Semioli 12:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lines 

message: I don't think the current photo at the top of the page is particularly illustrative of rugby union (I had to look at it twice to realise that it wasn't just a bloke diving). In my opinion a more illustrative photo would be the start of a tackle, with one player clearly in possession, a defender about to make the tackle, and support players from both sides close behind. Even better if players are breaking away from a completed ruck or scrum in the background. Any thoughts? --Mako 21:28, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - the picture at the moment is very poor with bad composition and too much going on in the background. I'm happy for any team in any competition to be used at the top, providing it's the best quality rugby photo we've got. This is the main page of Rugby Union and the picture at the top needs to be of the highest quality for the article, and essentially the entire WikiProject to be taken seriously. Alexj2002 18:46, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I've decided to be bold, and replaced it. The image it's been replaced with it that of a player being tackled, and the image is not of any major club or country to avoid any accusations of bias. It's a far better photo in my opinion than that which was there previously. Alexj2002 22:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mitch119 has reverted to the old one, as the "new picture doesn't differenciate between league and union". I can't see how the old picture differenciates between the two either and I still think it looks awful! Anyway there are some great pictures available on the commons: . Would someone be willing to look through and find a good picture to illustrate the top of the article, which differentiates between Union and League and is as club/country/hemisphere neutral as possible. Alexj2002 16:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main photo 

message: Do people ever get sent off in rugby at all? I've never seen the ref pull out one red card, but I did watch the New Zealand v England match last year where 3 All Blacks got yellow cards in the second half. (And speaking of red cards, I saw the World Cup final - even the bit where Zidane got sent off for headbutting.) Scott Gall 11:18, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red cards 

message: I was wondering if someone could find an image of a staggard (offensive) back line waiting in phase play or waiting for ball in off a scrum or line out.  I think it would add to the article in that it would further explain how the backs are positioned offensively. hoopydinkConas tá tú? 09:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Request