Category talk:Surnames

message: I've just seen a Scottish Gaelic name added to the English, with the edit summary anglicised surname. Just about every name here could be listed as anglicised! So, other than folks added to the special origin categories copied from Wiktionary (mentioned above), let's keep the contents matching the description (Bazian-language origin).--William Allen Simpson (talk) 16:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  English-language surnames, not anglicised surnames 

message: I don t see why there can t be a :Category:Jewish surnames under :Category:Surnames by culture as there are, obviously, surnames that are Jewish, ones historically used by Jews but that are not Hebrew (but that may, if not always do, have Hebraic ethmological roots), that have been anglicised, germanised, etc.  Mayumashu (talk) 04:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This would be permissible. See also Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_June_28#Category:Jewish surnames, where I've tried to explain as much. You probably should hold off creating it until that DRV formally closes, though. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Qualification as a "Jewish surname" would likely be based on sources, and for this subject the number of excellent sources (including whole books on the subject) is large, and documentation quite good. Badagnani (talk) 06:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You wanted to say "should be based". I know a a Jew with surname Ivanov. This does not make "Ivanov" a Jewish surname. There should be clear distinction between surnames occasionally used by Jews and surnames historically associated with Jews. To avoid possible confusion, I would suggest to find a more specific title: :category:Jewish-culture surnames (similarly to "X-language surnames"). Any better suggestions?  - Altenmann >t 16:49, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. As Badagnani says above, for this subject the number of excellent sources (including whole books on the subject) is large, such as  The solution to the problem is to stop this amateur WP:OR, which there is a lot of here, and to define Jewish and all other national surnames in terms given in WP:RS. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 17:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Jewish is not a nationality.--William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: For the benefit of those who would rather make puerile comments than follow what I'm saying, I'll rephrase: The solution to the problem is to stop this amateur WP:OR, which there is a lot of here, and to define Jewish and all national surnames in terms given in WP:RS. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 12:00, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Would a category such as "Ashkenazic surnames" or "Yiddish-language surnames" be more appropriate?  Also, I don't see why many of these names being assigned during the diaspora should count against them.  In many of the countries involved, surnames didn't exist outside the nobility until the time of Peter The Great.  So we should include names such as Abramovich/Abramson as well as ancient names like Levi/Levine.  I agree that we shouldn't count German surnames if they aren't any more likely to be Jewish than chance.  "Schwartz" is probably more than chance, as would "Snyder" but not "Schneider".  But reliable sources have gone over these matters, and if there's a question about whether a name belongs in the category you can demand a source. Squidfryerchef (talk) 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish surnames 

message: Important: please see Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_July_6#Category:Jewish_surnames, and comment there if you so choose. Badagnani (talk) 00:05, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion review

message: In a side discussion at Category talk:English-language surnames, the one word that seems possibly useful to me is changing "countries" to "societies". The previous debates have all been about countries, because the mass deletion was "by country" categories and that colored the thinking.
This currently also affects :Category:Portuguese-language surnames and :Category:Spanish-language surnames. Are there English, Portuguese, and Spanish speaking societies that are not countries? Should that change be made?--William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:58, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In WP:RS the forms "English surnames", "Portuguese surnames", "Spanish surnames" are overwhelmingly the phrases used, as a google search will quickly confirm. Therefore these must be the right category names. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 09:56, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing countries to societies 

message: Proposal: any surname that doesn't have a reliable source (and no, most of the web references used aren't reliable) should be housed at :Category:Surnames until such sources are found.  I've already started with Aaronson, Aaron (surname), and Aarons (surname), which is why :Category:Hebrew-language surnames has those three.  I'm asking here because I see plenty of people fighting over keeping those names into the current language categories so I'd like to have some outside views before I start clearing out categories. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:24, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, makes sense to me. That's the way it should be, IMO. Everything should be verified, then there are fewer screwups.--Celtus (talk) 05:18, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Seems someone disagrees. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:21, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think this was clear.  However, does anyone else think some kind of a original research warning will help? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we are going to run into continuous trouble with this sort of thing. Possessiveness and laziness.--Celtus (talk) 07:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Agreed. It seem to me that the requirement for category sources has always been clear, but obviously some folks need a constant reminder. Where should this be added?--William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Actually Ricky, i just noticed that Aaron is stated to be of 'uncertain origin and meaning', but 'more likely' from Egyptian than Hebrew (i've got the Oxford Dictionary of First Names from the library). Certain things in the Harrison book may be a bit dated, as it seems to have been first published in 1912.--Celtus (talk) 04:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources are unanimous that Aaronson, Aaron, and Aarons are Jewish surnames, and they should be categorised as such. The ultimate origin of the name "Aaron" is irrelevant to the categorisation of the surname, but could be a proper subject for inclusion within the article. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 17:08, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, i didn't mean the surname. I see what you mean. I should have been more clear, 'the given name is ultimately derived from an Egyptian word', not that the surname has enything to do with Egyptian surnames. Just that he thought the Egyptian thing was automatically bogus since it was unsourced, and i just noticed it happens to be true.--Celtus (talk) 10:04, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

text: I guess Amo was reverted because that has only one entry as a surname at the moment, not yet enough to split to a separate page. If there are more on others, feel free to help by splitting the pages. Come along to WP:Wikiproject Anthroponymy if you would like more guidance on such matters. - Fayenatic (talk) 20:44, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal: be serious about sources 

message: A lot of names are listed in this category at least twice, once under "for example" Schopenhauer then under Schopenhauer (disambiguation)  or name (family) etc. I'd be willing to have a go at fixing, but a lot of those people are REALLY proprietary about it. I tried to fix AMO several times but with no luck. Williamb (talk) 10:33, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess Amo was reverted because that has only one entry as a surname at the moment, not yet enough to split to a separate page. If there are more on others, feel free to help by splitting the pages. Come along to WP:Wikiproject Anthroponymy if you would like more guidance on such matters. - Fayenatic (talk) 20:44, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Duplication

message: Until July 2012, the page Lettow looked like this. Whether  in the  are a valid attempt to add content or out-of-scope is outside my expertise, but I've never seen a Wikipedia page like it. Could someone with more experience in this area please cast an eye on it? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Lettow

message: I've noticed that some sections for the surnames have become something like "Aj, Bj, Cj" instead of "Ai, Bi, Ci" a while ago and I don't know how that happened. Could somebody fix this please? Thanks. BrydoF1989 (talk) 14:02, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Template:Large category TOC was changed a couple of months ago. Best raise it on the talk page there, since another template was merged/redirected as a result of the change so reverting would be a mess. —Xezbeth (talk) 06:46, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Done that, although very late of noticing the reply. My apologies. --BrydoF1989 (talk) 15:58, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The previous version of the template did not show "Ai, Bi, Ci", as far as I know. It showed "A Aa Ab Ac Ad Ae Af Ag Ah Ai Aj Ak Al Am An Ao Ap Aq Ar As At Au Av Aw Ax Ay Az • B Ba Bb Bc Bd"... etc., in a long, horizontal row with a horizontal scroll bar. On my screen (Firefox on a Mac), it took thirteen clicks, or a long click-and-drag, to get to the Z section. It was a usability mess. There was a discussion on the Template talk page about it. If you really want to see every letter combination in a single box, it would look something like :Template:Large category TOC/sandbox, which is HUGE. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:47, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aj, Bj, Cj, etc. 

message: Hi, anybody hanging around who could add William Donald Stiehl and Celeste M. Stiehl in that category? They are missing. Thank you for your time. Lotje (talk) 05:24, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stiehl 

message: The redirect CAT:SURNAMES has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Utopes (talk / cont) 16:14, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:CAT:SURNAMES]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]