Talk:Tiananmen

message: The characters 天安门 do literally mean 'heaven', 'peace', 'gate', so the customary English translation "Gate of Heavenly Peace" is straightforward, and not "poetic" at all.  Previously the page said that the name literally meant "The Gate Ensuring The Imperial Status Quo".  That's just not true, though charitably, perhaps someone isn't understanding what "literally" means.  Perhaps the "status quo" translation is a correct interpretation in the Chinese cultural context, especially if "heaven" is equated with the emperor; but I can't find an on-line source which gives this explanation of the name, and I think departing from what other references say should require some sourcing.   Zompist 02:59, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation of name 

message: The article lacks even a single word about the 1989 protests; they're what ~99% of people coming to this article are looking for.
I added a direct link.  To conform with the NPOV, I used both the anti-government and pro-government label; the dichotomy between them speaks loud enough.
: made an npov edit. and a person looking for a protest should be going to Tiananmen Square, if anything. --Sumple (Talk) 23:53, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: this post is so laughable that I am responding to it. to conform with non-ignorance, don't bring this topic up when anyone referring to any protest in the vicinity says square, not just Tiananmen. --- 华钢琴49 (TALK) 02:56, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It needs a direct link. Tienanmen massacre is exactly what I was looking for. 102.83.60.195 (talk) 12:42, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe try spelling Tiananmen right first? just a suggestion.... Huaxiazidi (talk) 15:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protests 

message: The correct spelling in Hanyu Pinyin is Tian'anmen, to ensure correct separation of the (otherwise ambiguous) characters. So Tiananmen should redirect to Tian'anmen and not the other way around.Wsbhopkin 15:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is it Tian'anmen? There is no ambiguity, since "Tia" is not a valid syllable in Mandarin. The only possible syllabic separation is Tian-an-men (Tia-nan-men being invalid), so the division mark is superfluous. --Sumple (Talk) 07:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But that is not apparently how apostrophes work in hanyu pinyin. Although the rationale for the use of the apostrophe is to dispel ambiguities in the separation of syllables, the rules are designed to make its application straightforward. According to this site the rule simply says that syllables beginning with a vowel take an apostrophe when joined to a previous syllable. This makes the rule very simple and (at the cost of apparently superfluous uses, like this one) effectively prevents ambiguities. So, bǎo'ān (保安) or piān'ài (偏愛) appear with an apostrophe in Chinese dictionaries, even though, just as in Tian'anmen, no ambiguity can happen. Similarly, it is incorrect to use apostrophes in names like Hunan, Henan, Jinan and so on. Only if the last syllable was "an" would the apostrophe be used. I think the problem with current Wikipedia usage is that the clumsy rules mentioned in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese) are based on the guidelines of the US Library of Congress, which are not very clear (our naming convention even encourages users to do Google searches to figure out whether an apostrophe is required!). As for the rule I cited from the pinyin.info website, it seems to come from the book Chinese Romanization. Pronunciation and Orthography (汉语拼音和正词法), by Yin Binyong and Mary Felley, and published by Sinolingua (Beijing) in 1990. That seems to be a much more authoritative source than a US institution. This is something I mentioned (under my old user name) nearly one year ago on the talk page of the naming conventions guidelines, but nobody paid much attention, so in the end I didn't change it. But I still think it would be good to change the apostrophes section of the naming conventions, and to move all the "Tiananmen (...)" pages to "Tian'anmen (...)". Gelo 16:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The first thing I noticed on this page is the spelling. After all, Tia-nan-men is readable, thus should not be correct. More information is on the pinyin page, which indicates the current spelling is incorrect. Also notice, I typed in "Tian'anmen" and wikipedia automatically redirected me to the "Tiananmen" pages. Since "Tian'anmen" is the correct spelling, the order should be reversed. And wow, that's a long time since this topic is last mentioned. Kniito 07:23, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's true, but "Tiananmen" is almost invariably used in English sources, so Wikipedia:Common names kicks in. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pinyin 

message: Interestingly, the proclamation of the People's Republic of China on Tiananmen after the civil war can be taken symbolically as the Chinese Communist Party "receiving the mandate from heaven, and stabilizing the dynasty (Chinese society)." (受命于天，安邦治國)--141.213.196.222 07:36, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds a bit speculative and I will remove this from the article unless there are any good reasons to keep it.--Niohe 15:40, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbolism 

message: I hardly understand ancient Chinese (gu wen), but I have a feeling that 受命于天，安邦治國 can be better translated than "receiving the mandate from heaven, and stabilizing the dynasty." In particular, I think the second part actually means "pacify borders and govern country". Can someone more knowledgeable give their opinion? Xiner 16:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I somehow fail to see what changing the translation would add to the article. You should be careful not to mix up the modern meanings of there characters with how they were used during the Qing dynasty. For instance, the terms bang and guo can both refer to "country" and "dynasty".--Niohe 00:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation, Act II 

message: The following recently added content is a direct translation of this article, already quoted as a reference and summarised in the History section. 
I have moved it from the article on the grounds that it is too long, not in summary article, and as a direct and full translation of the source material could be copyvio, or if not, belongs in Wikisources. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:42, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reconstruction 

message: The reconstructed gatehouse was design to with stand 9.0 magnitude earthquake and a total of 216 establishments and enterprises worked on the project.  At its peak, over 2,700 worked on the project, which was finally completed on March 7, 1970, 112 days after the work begun on December 15, 1969.
Mr. Yao Laiquan (姚来泉) kept a Reconstruction Memorabilia at his home until this day: a framed gilding instructions written by Mao Zedong: Design carefully, work carefully, during the construction process, there must be many errors, failure, make correction at all times.
End moved content --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Memorabilia

message: I wanted to justify the edit I made to the translation of the right placard from "Long Live the Unity of the World's Peoples" to "Long Live the Proletarian Revolution" which has since been reverted.
The phrase [世界人民大团结] is a direct translation of the final sentence of Marx's Communist Manifesto, which in the original German reads, "Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!" , literally in English, "Proletarians of all countries, unite yourselves!"  This direct translation of Marx's text into Chinese from the German makes irrelevant both the English translation "Workers of the world, unite!" and the use of the term [劳动人民] to signify "worker."
Since the subject of the cry "Long Live" in English is always a noun, and not a phrase, it seems obvious to me that a placard effectively reading "long live 'Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!'" would be best translated "Long Live the Proletarian Revolution."
In accordance with the reasoning given above I have restored my translation.  I would advise that any who would wish to contest my stance on this point first attempt to familiarize themselves with Marx and the Communist Manifesto in Chinese translation, free texts of which are generally unavailable on the Internet due to DDoS attacks sponsored by the government of the People's Republic of China on sites that attempt to host such texts.
Kalirren (talk) 22:42, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: if you know any Chinese, you would know that the 'direct translation' is not accurate. the English words that appear in the placard, in order: "world people great unity". nothing about proletariat (无产阶级 / 無產階級)... besides, isn't the unity of all humans a key tenet of Marxism/Communism?  ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 03:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

text: well, the chinese doesn't say "proletariat" therefore dont add it to the translation.世界人民大团结 - where do you see the word proletariat anywhere? Translate it to what it actually says would be better than translating it to what you think it should say. I will translate each word to show you: 世界(world)人民(People)大(big/great)团结(Unity) beats me where you find the proletariat in the word. How do you know that the placard is quoting the manifesto? Huaxiazidi (talk) 15:39, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation of Right Placard 

message: "Northern Section of Tiananmen Square". Who said that? Chang'an Avenue interrupts the two! ---何献龙4993 (talk) 22:06, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening Sentence 

message: It should be made clear that the lions are effigies, not real.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 12:41, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: how (and why)would you think that there would be REAL lions guarding the gates. I think most readers viewing the article would have common sense to tell. Huaxiazidi (talk) 15:40, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: lions

message: When you open the wechat mini program you have to book seven days in advance,not one. And most tickets are gone within an hour. It might be one day in advance in quitter seasons, but this is definitely mis-leading, maybe change it to: "it is not possible to buy tickets on the day or on-site. Tickets must be booked online through the Weixin (Wechat) Mini Program several days in advance" Huaxiazidi (talk) 15:47, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buying tickets the day before