Talk:Macedonia (terminology)/Archive 1

message: A suggestion for naming. Linked name = name of the Wikipedia article, followed by names in relevant official languages sorted in alphabetical order. Its a start, argue below. - FrancisTyers 00:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. But only relevant languages? We must find a way to sneak in the UN and the other int'l organizations...  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 16:05, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't worry, the whole fYrOm thing or whatever will be covered, just not in the introduction, in the politics section.  It will be explained exactly in what circumstances the term is used and what it refers to. Above I was talking about the names of the rivers, towns, etc. - FrancisTyers 16:12, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your question has a simple answer: We use all local self-identified official names.  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 16:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But is the Latin alphabet biased in favour of the Greeks? - FrancisTyers 16:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ΔΕΝ ΞΕΡΩ ΕΣΥ ΤΙ ΛΕΣ; (=I don't know, what do you think?) :-) NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 19:37, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Names

message: The immediate problem that springs up is one of reliable sources for the maps. Feel free to add to the sources below... - FrancisTyers 02:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: How much space should the naming dispute take up? I mean, its imperative that we provide either both sides or none, but it seems like this is just going to be a carbon copy of the section in the Foreign relations article. My initial suggestion is that we just have what the term is, why (pointing to the naming dispute) and the countries / organisations that use it. We can have a separate section of the article for "Related terminology" where we include "Republic of Skopje", "Skopia", "Skopjan", "Slavomacedonian" etc. - FrancisTyers 19:00, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is Skopjan? All possible words you could find in Greece are Σκόπια (Skopia - the country), Σκοπιαν-ός (Skopian, a person), Σκοπιανικ-ός (Skopianic, the adjective), Σκοπιανικά (Skopianika, the language), Σκοπιανιστί (Skopianisti, a different name for the language). What is all this "Skopjeans" and othr creative innovations? Telex 19:05, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW good thing you remembered to mention the dialect; that dialect is important to the etymology of the name Florina. Telex 19:07, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Re: "Skopjan", seems I spelt it wrong. I am of course referring to "Skopian", I note some of your countrymen have done the same.  - FrancisTyers 19:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How come you didn't use your familiar portmanteau Skopyawn instead? NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 20:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha :)) - FrancisTyers 20:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming dispute

message: I posted the text from the Greek Foreign Ministry site as is (and linked some words for clarif). I am not sure if it should all go there, but I wouldn't want to be the one who shortens it. Please see it and comment.  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 19:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnote 3 

message: ...so I renamed it to Greek terminology. I added the meaning of each word, wikified. Discuss.  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 19:59, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I made a few changes - hope you don't mind. Telex 20:03, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I prefer it this way, so that each country's pov is isolated. Ofcourse we can have Macedonian Slav terminology and even Bulagarian terminology if necessary. NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 20:19, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is "Grkomani" (what Macedonian Slavs call Slavophone Greeks in addition to traitors) legitimate terminology? Telex 20:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's illegitimate enough to be legitimate for wikipedia.  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 20:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Bulgarians use it as well, see :bg:Гъркомани. They spell it differently though, Garkomani, and is used in the same context (it was used a lot during the Greek Struggle for Macedonia, when the Slavophone Greeks sided with the Greeks and not the Bulgarians). Telex 20:31, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: See the explanation in the edit summary. Telex 21:16, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are no results for "Slavobulgar", you'll have to make "Bulgaroskopian" you new favorite - it's used by the ultra-nationalist magazine Ελληνικές Γραμμές .  I haven't found anyone use the term "Slavobulgar" (it may be made up). I daren't think what they call Greeks over there. Telex 21:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Looks like quality sites you visit. Having a good time? FunkyFly 21:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno, on a superficial level its pretty funny, I mean, presenting the accusation in capital letters makes it even more so... often it makes me laugh out loud, but then I realise that yes, actually some people do think this. That can make me pretty dispondant. - FrancisTyers 21:53, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: BTW FF, you should try reading this. It's from the online magazine of the ultra-nationalist political party of the Bulgarian minority in Greece and is about how and why the Macedonians became Macedonians. It's in Greek, so you'll have to run it through babelfish, but it does make a good read. Telex 21:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Does it involve Titozilla? I sure hope so! - FrancisTyers 21:53, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Awww no mention, but it does have Steadfast historical elements ! :)) - FrancisTyers 21:56, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd vote for them, except they're also anti-Greek, look at their main page ;-) Telex 21:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha,ha! this site is sooooo funny! i recommend it for anyone who would like to lol by reading a fictional version of history:). especially this part  which says that Alexander the Great was defeated by the tribes of Asia Minor... --Hectorian 22:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Looks like I won't be won over by the watertight argumentation and skilled rhetoric tonight... The GeoCities web site you were trying to view has temporarily exceeded its data transfer limit. Please try again later. :( - FrancisTyers 22:17, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I did not know such things exist, maybe because I rarely google in greek. Lots of maps, text and stuff, looks very familiar somehow, yet different. FunkyFly 22:19, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the best one so far, where they discuss the Laz and Kurdish origin of the Pontian Greeks, who unjustifiably claim to be Greeks. Telex 22:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Ethnic stereotypes can definitely be very powerful and appealing, especially when they are grossly exagerated. FunkyFly 22:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, here's a historical maps page. Telex 22:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: It says data transfer limit exceeded. Check your linkage. FunkyFly 22:33, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The site seems to have gone off now - they say "try again later". Telex 22:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (3 edit conflicts later) Gee! I thought Greeks were African blacks! I guess we are Laz Afro-Kurds after all... (and to think that these theories aim to undervalue Greeks, ie African blacks, Kurds etc are considered lesser people by the theorists...)  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 22:42, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Haahaaaah. Just look at the names of those researchers, claiming that greeks (as opposed to the entire human race) have sub-saharan genes. My God, the things that get published... FunkyFly 02:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I just understood now. In their official site, they are complaining about the Greek government bringing "Georgian" refugees to settle in "Aegean Macedonia" to disrupt the ethnic composition and make the Bulgarian (the Macedonians allege it was Macedonian) majority a minority. I just realised they meant the Pontians - see this series, where they discuss the ethnic Caucasian/Georgian origins of the Pontians. This propaganda is ridiculous. Telex 22:48, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW the historical maps are working now. Telex 22:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: This one is also good, they discuss how the Greek "secret police" infiltrated the Rainbow party and made some worrying discoveries about their United Macedonia ambitions. These conspiracy theories are getting better and better ;-) Telex 22:53, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha ha! It's amazing! I was wondering if we could create Anti-Greek nationalistic propaganda and include all those links and maps and theories... NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 23:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about Unified Macedonia or United Macedonia? Or the blindingly obvious Anti-Hellenic discrimination :) - FrancisTyers 23:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: All three, and then we merge ande redirect (if Wikipedia:Article size allows us to)! This is getting more and more interesting. I am really curious if there are as many Greek falsifications of history etc on-line... NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 23:16, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See anti-Hellenism. Telex 23:17, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: However, the degree to which actual anti-Hellenism exists is disputed. When compared with apparently similar phenomena (like Anti-Semitism), anti-Hellenism seems to be, at least in its contemporary form, more of a deliberate misperception or a sort of conspiracy theory than an actual hate movement.
Comments?  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 23:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: HAHA Priceless! "While such stances ostensibly include the desire to rid Greece and Cyprus of Greeks, they apparently do not call for a worldwide "Greek Holocaust"." — that kind of writing makes Wikipedia great :)) A far superior article to such others as Anti-Romanian discrimination, Serbophobia. - FrancisTyers 23:46, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it doesn't have to be a worldwide holocaust, so it wouldn't be important if it was a Balkanic holocaust or a Macedonian holocaust instead... NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 14:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Regarding Greek falsifications... There was something I heard about the alphabet, about it not being based on phonecian or something. I'm sure there are more, its like a hobby for you guys. - FrancisTyers 23:48, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok guys, check this, apparently it demolishes crushingly and definitely the false theory that Greeks took the alphabet from the Phoenicians. More on this story later... - FrancisTyers 23:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha ha! I really don't care, but please answer if you know so that I am not misinformed: Is it a fact that Phoenicians didn't have vowels? Also, pitty if they had such a great tool for so long and did so little with it! (Like owning a Ferrari and observing speed limits in Greece...)  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 14:19, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hah, I think they definately had vowels, there are no languages without them. From the article it seems to suggest that their writing system did not include vowels though, It is difficult to evaluate sound-changes in Phoenician dialects over time because writers continued to use archaic "book-spellings" that did not mark vowels in any way. - FrancisTyers 15:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text: M' g'ss 's th' d'dn't. It ws a pioneering thought for the time. Can you check it? Do we have a reliable source? Come on! You're the one taking linguistics classes! (oh, and... languages existed even before writing at all)... NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 15:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been speculated that "language" as a human faculty is around 200,000 years old. PS. I think you're missing a word or at the least a consonant... o___O - FrancisTyers 15:21, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah but is it accurate to say: "Greeks invented the symbolising the vowels and incorporated those symbols to the Phoenician consonants to create the first alphabet"? Or would it be a Greek POV push by an illiterate map-maker who strives to find positive things for what he considers his ancestors, but may as well be a Fallmerayed bastard?  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 15:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: HAHA! I just looked up Mr. Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer, funny chap. See the Greek alphabet page, I'm not sure if the Greeks invented symbolising vowels. To be honest all this "first to invent" stuff is kind of silly. Like who invented the television or jet engine, or steam locomotive, does it really matter? Seems the people who celebrate the "glorious past" probably feel they would be better off there... rule britannia etc. - FrancisTyers 15:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Did anybody see my sandals? I have to go to the Ecclesia, at the Pnyx! (is it true that Greeks invented the TV, the jet and the locomotive?)...  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 17:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard it so reported... along with vaccination, the power loom and the typewriter. - FrancisTyers 17:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Frappé — the one Modern Greek invention I think we all benefit from :)) - FrancisTyers 17:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other terminology was Greek only 

message: If you'll humour me, I'd like to keep any links out for the moment. 
* 
*  
* 
- FrancisTyers 20:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I "humoured" you 3 sections above.  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 20:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't know, I removed them because I don't think we need to source anything quite yet. Lets just go on what we know for now, keeps the references clean. - FrancisTyers 16:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Links

message: I took the liberty of looking up "Macedonian" (I couldn't find "Macedonia") on the Oxford English Dictionary, quotations follow:
Regarding a group of people:
*1. a. A member of an ancient people inhabiting the kingdom of Macedonia (see MACEDON n.). Now historical.
*b. An inhabitant of the region of Macedonia. In later use: a person from any of the geographical entities called Macedonia, esp. the administration general of Macedonia in modern Greece or the (FY) Republic of Macedonia (...). Also with preceding adjective specifying ethnic origin or country of residence.
*c. A member of a people of Macedonia distinguished by their Slavonic language and culture. Also: a person identified with this ethnic group, whether or not a native or inhabitant of Macedonia.
Regarding a language:
*2. a. The South Slavonic language of the Slav Macedonians, closely related to Bulgarian and written in the Cyrillic alphabet. Also in Macedonian-speaking adj.
*b. The language of ancient Macedonia, recorded in fragmentary remains, and usually regarded as a variety of Greek. Now historical.
- FrancisTyers 11:54, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uncertain - I know that it is relevant to the etymology of the word Florina. Telex 17:16, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aha, found a reliable source by Peter Trudgill (your professor, Francis :p). Dialectology. Specific characteristics for northern Greece include loss of unstressed /i/ and /u/, and /i/ becoming /u/ before a labial consonant. Of course there are just general - the Greek phrase "δικός μου" is pronounced "θκόζιμ" in Macedonia and "θκόσιμ" in Thessaly. Telex 17:26, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: You do realise that Macedonian is not just Greek dialects, but Albanian, Bulgarian and even Romanian (and probably even Turkish). There are Tosk Albanian speakers in Greek and Albanian Macedonia and Gheg speakers in R. Macedonia. Aromanian (also called Macedo-Romanian) is a form of Romanian (Vlach) spoken in Macedonia, but also in Thesaly and Epirus. There are also numerous Bulgarian dialects spoken by the Bulgarians in Macedonia and these are almost identical to Macedonian Slavic. Telex 17:33, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I think that Aromanian (Macedo-Romanian) should be mentioned in addition to Greek Macedonian, Macedonian Slavic and Ancient Macedonian in the linguistics section. If we find sources saying that there are "Macedonian" (we need the word Macedonian, not Torlakian or Tosk) dialects of Albanian and Bulgarian, we should speedily add those as well. Telex 19:15, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: This is a terminology article, so we are compiling a list of all languages and dialects which can be referred to as "Macedonian". In such an ethnically diverse region, there are many. The fact that the term "Macedonian" is controversial is already mentioned. Telex 19:27, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, that dialect of Spanish is called Ladino. If it were called Macedonian, then we could mention it. What exactly are you proposing, what would you do? Telex 19:33, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: well i had misunderstood the criteria for entrance in the article.a) i agree with you about aromanian, as long as it is also called macedo-romanian it should enter the article. b) u are right, theres no reason to put ladino in the article
--Greece666 19:53, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Macedonian in English usage

message: avg made a new contribution to the article "It [ancient macedonian kingdom] was located in what today is Greek Macedonia."--Greece666 19:56, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this is roughly (but not completely) true up to the 4th century BC. An exception is Pelagonia. --Aldux 20:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, i ve also heart that some minor changes took place during the 4th cent. BC (LOL). well, i think the expression has to be qualified, because as you said it is not a completely accurate statement.--Greece666 20:17, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, how about saying "roughly coinciding with present-day Greek Macedonia"? Telex 20:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: this is what is written in the macedon article: "Prior to the 4th century BC, the kingdom covered a region approximately corresponding to the province of Macedonia of modern Greece"--Greece666 20:26, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think I added a novelty. The only thing a user has to do is click on the Ancient Macedon link and look at the map. I'm not sure that the area of the Macedonian Empire at Alexander's times qualifies as Macedonia. --   Avg    20:48, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: ok Greece666, tell us, what is your POV about the area that ancient Macedonia(Macedon) covered? did it stretched northern of Skopje? archaeological findings and ancient historians' works clearly show that it was made up by the area of Greek Macedonia. roughly or not, that's the truth. word-games are amusing, but i do not think they have anything to add in this discussion. --Hectorian 01:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: hectorian: if by word-games you mean the ability to be precise, word-games are part of writing,  if on the other hand, you mean that the change that avg did is unimportant, i simply disagree."did it stretched northern of Skopje?" i never said that do not invent things up pls. " it was made up by the area of Greek Macedonia." to give but one example, during the second macedonian war (200-196 BC) Philip V controlled parts of Illyria. Is Illyria part of the greek province of Macedonia?--Greece666 02:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: after the 2003 Iraq War, the United states controlled parts of Iraq. Is Iraq part of the USA?. pls... --Hectorian 02:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Of course not, but the Americans occupied did not conquer Iraq. I agree that the example i gave above might not be the best one, however the substance of my argument remains the same, borders change (especially in ancient times, when they were particularly unstable and especially concerning macedonia, which was a state with a very long history). --Greece666 02:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Borders in ancient and medieval times was not what it is today-noone can say the accurate area by sq.km of an ancient or medieval kingdom. thus, when people refer to an ancient state's area, they talk about the places where archaeology has brought to light findings and to where ancient historians say that this state streched to. when people talk about ancient Athens or Sparta, refer to the respective kingdoms'(in the case of Athens later a democracy) 'original' area, and not to the cities and islands and provinces they had conquered/occupied/set under their econimical dominance/etc. the same goes for ancient Macedonia. --Hectorian 03:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: good remark- thats precisely the problem: the borders of macedon changed many times throughout history so you cannot talk about macedon in general without stating the time period you refer to. there is not one "macedon"but many, in the same way that there is not, say, one "russia" but many- it all depends on the time period.--Greece666 02:13, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, how about the extent of Macedon prior to its collapse/defeat? - FrancisTyers 02:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: so, in its first stage, the ancient Macedonian Kingdom of the Argeadae, was established in what is today western and central-western Greek Macedonia(the place where Vergina is located). for centuries, during the classical period and until the reign of Phillip and Alexander, it covered exclusively the area of the Greek Macedonia (with the addition of Pelagonia, as Aldux correctly said). now, if some people tend to see the areas conquered by Alexander the Great and his succesors, as parts of Macedonia, it is like saying that there was not one England, but many (including India), or not one France, but many (including Moscow!). make a choice... --Hectorian 02:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: i think you misunderstood what i said. Avg wrote about the "macedonian kingdom". the kingdom's borders did change with time. the geographical region is another story. To give one example : geographical spain is one thing, the borders of the state of spain is another. these two do not necessarily coincide- to continue my example, spanish kings considered the indigenous population of South America as "their subjects". by that they did not mean that south america is part of Spain (geographical region), but of the kingdom of Spain.  the issue here is not whether ancient macedonia was greek or not. the issue is if what avg wrote is a correct description of the reality of the kingdom of macedon. --Greece666 02:56, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What Avg wrote is ok. i will give another example: the Queen of England is also Queen of Austalia and Canada (among others...), but these countries are not 'England'. the ancient Macedonians occupied/conquered/etc many lands, but the macedonian kingdom was made up by modern day Greek Macedonia: all its rulers were coming from that part, the capital was in that part, the people speaking the dominant language were coming from that part, archaeology and ancient and modern historians support my claim... i cannot see why u insist that this addition should not had been made by Avg... --Hectorian 03:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At least in my opinion, your example on englang is invalid. you do not understand the distinction between England/United Kingdom/British Empire.You have the same misconception about the difference between macedonia (geographic region)/kingdom of macedon.--Greece666 04:06, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  change in the article 

message: Or something... I can't speak Latin for shit, but what I can do is create maps. Check out the map of the Macedonia province of the Roman Empire. I created it from , which seems to be non-partisan. As always, suggestions, comments, improvements all welcome. - FrancisTyers 11:50, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Non-partisan? This is a serious Roman POV push on the issue! :-)  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 15:06, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL! :)) - FrancisTyers 15:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ave Imperia Romana

message: Just a small note on the map of Ancient Macedonia; I don't think we should add the Chalcidic peninsula, as it wasn't controlled by Macedon before Philip II, but by free Greek city-states, united in the Chalcidic League.--Aldux 22:25, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aldux is right. this is history, thus Chalcidic peninsula should be excluded from the map. i do not know how to do it, so pls someone else may correct it. --Hectorian 01:09, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The French article provides some nice maps of the pre-Philippic era . Miskin 01:42, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I can do whatever you want with the maps, just decide what it is that you want me to do, so that I don't work in vain.  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 17:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Macedon

message: i think the World Bank uses macedonia--Greece666 13:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah! Sure! Check it by yourself... Ooops! What is this? FYR of Macedonia, oh sorry for spoiling the fun...  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 16:14, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The organization is the CEI. See . I didn't tell it immediately because I just wanted to see if anyone reacted to me making an unsourced statement ;-)--Aldux 17:13, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  International organisations 

message: I've cut the "FYROM" bit down somewhat to prevent unnecessary duplication. It is covered in full detail on the naming dispute page. This has the added benefit of not screwing up the politics box. - FrancisTyers 16:56, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem now. You could put it back, only the duplication thing would still stand. :-)  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 17:22, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: In politics

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 8 external links on Macedonia (terminology). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://archive.is/20050117041112/http://cfi.hit.bg/bulgarian/b_5_3.htm to http://cfi.hit.bg/bulgarian/b_5_3.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071029080659/http://linguistlist.org/forms/langs/get-familyid.cfm?CFTREEITEMKEY=IELBA to http://linguistlist.org/forms/langs/get-familyid.cfm?CFTREEITEMKEY=IELBA
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110606091027/http://www.osce.org/item/58530 to http://www.osce.org/item/58530
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111002044531/http://www.skai.gr/master_story.php?id=74004 to http://www.skai.gr/master_story.php?id=74004
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060921145406/http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/pdf/macedonians_old.pdf to http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/pdf/macedonians_old.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071109180430/http://www.a1.com.mk/vesti/default.asp?VestID=10713 to http://www.a1.com.mk/vesti/default.asp?VestID=10713
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071109180257/http://www.a1.com.mk/vesti/default.asp?VestID=22918 to http://www.a1.com.mk/vesti/default.asp?VestID=22918
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080416194855/http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/free-speech-macedonia-forum/805-fyromians-faq-version-1-0-igor-malinovski.html to http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/free-speech-macedonia-forum/805-fyromians-faq-version-1-0-igor-malinovski.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:28, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Macedonia (terminology). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060708044400/http://www2.mfa.gr/www.mfa.gr/en-US/Policy/Geographic+Regions/South-Eastern+Europe/Balkans/Bilateral+Relations/FYROM/FYROM+-+THE+NAME+ISSUE.htm to http://www2.mfa.gr/www.mfa.gr/en-US/Policy/Geographic+Regions/South-Eastern+Europe/Balkans/Bilateral+Relations/FYROM/FYROM+-+THE+NAME+ISSUE.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:52, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Macedonia (terminology). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110710203717/http://www.tribune.eu.com/articles/1344.html to http://www.tribune.eu.com/articles/1344.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:08, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified