Talk:Douglas Wilson (theologian)

message: I put the NPOV tag on and added three links from the SPLC. There is considerably more controversy considering Mr. Wilson's doctrines and teaching than this article would lead one to believe. While I don't think the current article is particularly biased, it does lack a basic discussion of the aspects of Wilson's thought and work that seems vital to note. Dieziege 18:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: NPOV is not the right tag. Request for expansion would be better, IMHO, and I've adjusted it as such. --Flex 01:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be helpful to know what the other controversies are so that information could be included.  Would it be possible to list them? Chart123 17:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Another is the "Federal Vision" controversy, which is related to the New Perspective on Paul, but from the links, it sounds like Dieziege has in mind Wilson's unorthodox views on American slavery and some abuse apparently perpetrated by two students who were part of the college and seminary Wilson helped start. Unlike the Federal Vision stuff, I don't consider the others a major focus of Wilson's attention or thought, and they really seem incidental to what this article should be about. (That's not to say they shouldn't be mentioned, but rather, they shouldn't be given the same amount of space as the other points and controversies.) --Flex 12:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But what more is there to add about either the Federal Vision controversy or the slavery controversy?  And the link to the sex abuse scandal is sufficient.  I see the "expand" tag is back up -- but unless there's more to add, I see nothing to expand.  Whoever has put up the tag should do the expanding. Chart123 14:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Honestly, I think most of these concerns may be a bit too parochial for inclusion in the Wikipedia. (Again, that's not to say that they don't deserve a mention or a link at all, just that they are of lesser importance in terms of discussing who Wilson is, what he is about, etc.) What do others think? --Flex 19:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Flex.  The particular controveries seem like mini issues -- no need for an expansion tag. Chart123 20:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I think the slavery controversy is adequately and neutrally covered. (Well, except perhaps for the sentence: "However, Wilson has ties to the League of the South through Steve Wilkins, a group that has been linked to Neo-confederate thought." That seems like guilt by association.) Do you disagree? I expanded the rest of the article to mention some of Wilson's other contributions so that controversy doesn't seem like all he is known for. (In fact, he probably wouldn't be known in most of those controversies at all if he hadn't been well known for classical Christian education, family roles, etc. first.) I also removed some of the external links in accord with WP:EL. --Flex 01:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I deleted that objectionable sentence but put the reference to the League of the South elsewhere. It seems more neutral to me that way. --Flex 13:57, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

text: That's fine by me, but I would note that I was basically quoting the cited HHN article, which is not at all favorable to Wilson or his case. --Flex (talk|contribs) 21:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for expansion

message: I revised these edits by User:Psstile because I didn't think they were inline with WP:BLP, WP:NPOV, or WP:EL. For instance, "Nevertheless, Wilson clearly attributes racism proper to the Lord Jesus Christ, in his book A Serrated Edge (pp. 43, 44)." is obviously a controversial statement, possibly in violation of WP:BLP, which requires immediate deletion rather than the usual seeking of greater clarity first. Greater clarity should be given here, e.g. an extended quotation from those pages that demonstrates unambiguously that the deleted sentence is accurate, and the sentence can be re-added more appropriately if it is proved to be accurate.
*I checked the source for the book, it is taken out of context.  What is being said is that Jesus used characters in his parables that would have gone against the norm of the time.  For examples, the Samaritans were looked down upon a lot, and they were though to be morally deformed.  So by having a good Samaritan in His stories, he is getting his readers attention.  Page 44 clearly says Jesus was using racist comment to get the Jews to re-evaluate their take on none Jewish people.  Who ever wrote the comment did not bother to read carefully.  (71.221.189.99 03:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent NPOV edits

message: I've never done a bibliography before, so I don't know if I've done this one correctly. Should I include publication dates and publishers? Would it be appropriate to link to book excerpts when available? I looked for guidelines on bibliographies, but I couldn't find anything that clarified. Kyriosity 18:48, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes and yes. Compare the bibliography at James B. Jordan, for instance. Unless a comprehensive book list is relatively small, however, I prefer to see a list of the most important books (as judged by some reliable source, some objective metric like sales figures, or perhaps a faculty bio or something along those lines), so that the most important works get their due and so the article doesn't get too listy (cf. WP:LAUNDRY). --Flex (talk|contribs) 14:09, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bibliography questions

message: === "On Women" ===
This section includes a paraphrase to the effect that Wilson believes the punishment for rape should be a payment to the woman's father and marrying the victim.  However, the only source for this remarkable statement is a single article which provides no further context.  The paraphrase reads a lot like Deuteronomy 22:28-29--a Bible passage with disputed interpretations ("rape" in this context could actually mean consensual premarital sex).  Anyway, without further context or a direct quote, I think this paraphrase violates the policy for biographies of living persons.  Eseymour 18:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:BLP|Biographies of living persons]] Issues 

message: This section includes a paraphrase to the effect that Wilson believes the punishment for rape should be a payment to the woman's father and marrying the victim.  However, the only source for this remarkable statement is a single article which provides no further context.  The paraphrase reads a lot like Deuteronomy 22:28-29--a Bible passage with disputed interpretations ("rape" in this context could actually mean consensual premarital sex).  Anyway, without further context or a direct quote, I think this paraphrase violates the policy for biographies of living persons.  Eseymour 18:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "On Women" 

message: I undid several of Maiios's edits for NPOV, lack of references, and failure to meet WP:BLP. The article by Mark Potok is contentious, and as it is unreferenced and unsubstantiated it therefore does not meet the standards of excellence for reliability. Plenty of Wilson's own words are available on the Web...look at the primary sources rather than quoting hearsay. While a section under "Writings" called "On race" or "On race and slavery" would be appropriate (though not as the first subheading, as it's hardly a major theme of Wilson's bibliography), "On racism" is inflammatory. The added sections "On women" and "On homosexuality" were also inflammatory and poorly sourced. I would encourage Maiios, or anyone contributing edits on controversial aspects of this article, to read the discussion section before making extensive edits to make sure yours are in keeping with the consensus that has already been reached. Thanks! Kyriosity 02:00, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Several edits 

message: "He said that cursing one's parents is 'deserving of punishment by death.' 'Parental failure is not a defense.' And Christian parents, by the way, 'need not be afraid to lay it on' when spanking, he says. Indeed, 'godly discipline' would include spanking 2-year-old children for whining."
This seemed to violate the biographies of living persons standards, for it had very little context to be neutral in POV and unverifiable. 112ahern 22:05, 02 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Spanking, etc." 

message: This article was automatically  assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:20, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: Please remember that sources must meet the biographical information of living persons standards. They must also provide substantive information about the subject, and therefore it is inappropriate to just put an identical list of links on half a dozen related articles. Please be sure to read the discussion pages of articles before making controversial edits, as a balanced consensus may already have been discussed and reached. Thanks! Kyriosity 10:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:39, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC 

message: I originally had all this material in the body of the article, along with some material by his former professor at the University of Idaho. But, I agree with another editor that it probably gives criticism undue weight. However I think something should be included about the criticism Wilson has received by African American Christian leaders (of the same theology as he). As it is now, there is no such reporting, making it appear as if there is no controversy caused by his "paleo-confederate" views.
entry:
The book was criticized by several African-American Christian leaders.For example, Anthony Bradley, professor of theology at the King's College, http://bradley.chattablogs.com/archives/2012/07/jared-wilson-pa.html [UPDATED]Jared Wilson, Paleo-Confederate (Doug) Wilson, and 1 Cor 3 Reformed Tribalism: Part 1]", The Institute, and Bryan Loritts, Pastor of Fellowship Memphis, in "The Other", Bryan Crawford Lorits Blog. Thabiti Anyabwile, pastor of First Baptist Church of Grand Cayman and a columnist for the Gospel Coalition, began a series of articles in response to Wilson's book with, "I think [Bradley and Loritts] are both correct to drop the heaviest hammer on such foolishness."Thabiti Anyabwile, "Why Respond Publicly to Douglas Wilson’s “Black and Tan”?", The Gospel Coalition  Yeoberry (talk) 21:28, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: These are blogs, and are unsuitable for inclusion on a BLP. Please read WP:BLPSPS and stop adding this material to the article. StAnselm (talk) 21:56, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, you're right, then, about the blogs by Bradley and Loritts but the articles by Anyabwile appear in the Gospel Coalition web-site which I believe would fall under this category (from WP:BLPSPS): "Some news organizations host online columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control."Yeoberry (talk) 22:14, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Umm, you realise, don't you, that Douglas Wilson is also a blogger at TGC? See here. It seems to be more of a "group blog" under the terms of WP:BLPSPS. The Gospel Coalition is not a "news organization". StAnselm (talk) 00:22, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

text: Perhaps you're right but the Gospel Coalition is a prominent web-site, with blog columnist selected by them. This is not a self-published blog but akin to a columnist in a newspaper.Yeoberry (talk) 00:56, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism by African-American Christian Leaders

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Douglas Wilson (theologian). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100405184027/http://accsedu.org:80/History.ihtml?id=36665 to http://www.accsedu.org/History.ihtml?id=36665
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:59, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Douglas Wilson (theologian). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070928024937/http://www.christkirk.com/Literature/ReformedIsNotEnough.pdf to http://www.christkirk.com/Literature/ReformedIsNotEnough.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 04:54, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I restored the list of books authored by Wilson. It had previously been edited out and I'm sure it was in good faith.  But the reason for the edit seems to be notability.  If the reasoning is WP:GNG, note that this applies to the article as a whole, not the content within it (see WP:NOTEWORTHY).  Similarly, notability for books (WP:NBOOK) would be a notability test for articles on the books themselves - not for inclusion as part of an author's body of work in a BLP. It is common practice to include an author's list of work in a WP article about them, and there is no good reason to exclude this list from the article.  Also, there were a couple of cn tags added for things like   This is a bluesky statement that is self evident based on his body of work (from WP:BLUESKY: ).  Both of the cn tags were of a similar nature that is obvious from the author's bibliography.  There is no need to cite it. ButlerBlog (talk) 03:47, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restored published work