Talk:Empúries

message: I always thought that the Greek founders spoke the Greek language but here I learn that they spoke Catalan (so the name of the ruins has to be Empuries, not Emporion) and therefore the article is on the scope of the Project Catalan-speaking countries. Everyday something new to learn! --95.117.236.27 (talk) 17:54, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language of the founders 

message: Are we talking about Ampurias?  I think the title of this article should reflect the name by which this town has been commonly known outside Spain for centuries, not its Catalan name, which none except Catalonian separatists will know.
Djwilms (talk) 03:52, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ampurias 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've noted a bit of back and forth in the edit history concerning the usage of the names Empúries or Ampurias.  I gather the former is the Catalan usage (hence used on all local maps, tour guide books, google maps) while the latter is the Spanish usage (apparently used in most of Spain and on Spanish maps; I have no reference for this word).   This situation, and the comments above, have to do with the present political challenges, say, facing the Catalan region.   I don't know how to resolve the issue - (I am in Girona at present where all references/citations use Empúries) - but I do know this article is not to be the forum to battle out the Catalan separatism issue.  Personally, I think the Catalan version ought to be used in this English language wikipedia - mostly because, most commonly, English language readers will come to this site as an aid to tourism; and touring Catalonia will mean using Empúries.  I also note that this name is closer to the original Greek root.  People have noted that Catalonia is still part of Spain, but this, to me, is not a rationale for using the Spanish name - this is the English language wikipedia; English trumps both Catalan and Spanish law here!  I do find the use of Ampurias in the article on Empúries to be jarring, potentially confusing.  Bdushaw (talk) 14:35, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I propose renaming the article Emporion, explicitly noting both Spanish and Catalan versions of the name in the lede, then using the name Emporion in the article.   Any thoughts? Bdushaw (talk) 14:48, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Ancient cities are not consistently named in wikipedia, but typically get their ancient names, not what moderns call them in any language. For ex, it's Herculaneum, not Ercolano. - Eponymous-Archon (talk) 16:53, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

text: I'm with Bdushaw on this. My views have changed over time, but Empúries is what English speakers/readers will mostly see and is what appears in English language guide books. Michelin, for example, uses Archaeological site of Empúries (and, interestingly, in French Site archéologique d'Empúries]. Other uses of Empúries are Tripadvisor, The Smithsonian ("Explore the Ancient Ruins of Empúries"), Spanish tourist authority ("From Greece to Rome: the ruins of Empúries, on the Costa Brava"), Lonley Planet ("Empúries"), UNESCO (Greek "Archaeological ensemble in Empúries, l'Escala, Girona"), Fodor's Barcelona (), The Rough Guide to Costa Brava (p 255) and The Daily Telegraph ("Empúries – Catalonia’s answer to Pompeii"). Emeraude (talk) 08:36, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thinking about the issue further, it seems to me there is a general problem regarding Catalan/Spanish usage.  What should be a general policy for such articles as L'Escala (Catalan)/La Escala (Spanish)?  Should all such articles be converted over to Spanish?  (thus sowing confusion far and wide...)  There does not seem to be an alternative, broadly, to adopting the local usage for this English language encyclopedia.  As noted just above, English media use the local words.  One editor noted above that "Ampurias" has been used for centuries - I am not so sure that is true; it certainly seems no longer true.  The issue may be mixed in with the policy by the Franco regime to suppress the Catalan language (noting that some of the citations using Ampurias date to 1955, the height of the Franco era).  In short, the issue may well be tricky and delicate, but, on the whole, there seems to be no good alternative to adopting the local usage.  Bdushaw (talk) 20:16, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments on the name of the article and usage