Talk:The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess/Archive 4

message: I bought the strategy guide with the game specifically to assist in re-writing this article now that the game has been released. If anyone would like to guide me to an area where the guide may be a useful source of information, I will be happy to relay it with a full citation. It is the official Nintendo Power guide. Mellesime 05:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently, Wikipedia is not a place for video game guides . Sorry. --Zooba 21:58, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a look at the project's guidelines - the best place for such content would be one of the gaming-specific wikis mentioned there. --Oscarthecat 22:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

text: On the other hand, while gameplay information and tips don't belong here, the guide probably can serve as a useful way to cite story elements and other things that might seem suspect otherwise. --Herald Alberich 23:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For example, I've been busting my butt trying to update Enemies in The Legend of Zelda series. I've added TP appearences for enemies whose names I know (Stalfos, Darknut, etc), but that still leaves a lot of new enemies, like the fish things in the Goron Mines or the mini bosses of most dungeons, to name a few. What's most important is the addition of their names; if you don't know what else to write/not to write, I can add the rest. SixteenBitJorge 03:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strategy Guide Information 

message: TSA is cited a couple times in this article. Given the recent flak he's been under concerning his credibility, wouldn't it be best to find an alternate source? Surely some of those statements have been made by more reliable people? -- Mellesime 05:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What the heck are you talking about?  First, the two citations with my name are for SCANS of MAGAZINES, not even my own words...so how the heck is that questionable?  Second, you mean flak as in people on GameFAQs yelling at me saying I lied about solving the bugs?  I debnunked one, and am uploading another video to debunk the other, showing everyone I wasn't lying and that people need to get off my back.  The other issue is me getting TP early, and it was a random GameFAQ's member trolling.  I have several sources who verified I had TP early, not to mention I had videos posted of it BEFORE the release...along with the ending...so...not sure if you're a GameFAQ's member or Land of the Legend member...or just a hater...but back off.  Thanks. --TSA 01:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Hearsay is a poor form of evidence.--TSA 21:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Hersay is one of the most powerful tools when it comes to credibility. However, I was wrong for bringing this up. I apologize and hope you can find it in your heart to forgive my error. -- Mellesime 08:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I still believe hearsay is nothing more than gossip, I do accept your apology and sorry for jumping on you. --TSA 03:35, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TSA? 

message: Now that we've decided for their inclusion, I believe a major clean-up is needed. First off, surely some of the information here needs to be summarized, as the main article is the characters page? Also, would some information on the dungeons (looks etc.) be worthy here (the game guide may be particularly useful)? Just my two cents. --Zooba 18:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you want from the guide? I'm sure strategy is unnecessary, but I can certainly edit in some aesthetic aspects of dungeons and bosses, as well as locations within Twilight Princess's Hyrule. -- Mellesime 08:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aesthetic aspects please... --Zooba 19:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosses Clean-Up 

message: I have attempted many times to do the Bridge glitch, and I can't do it. Can anyone here get themselves the have bridge glitch? I can't seem to do it intentionally. Can anyone confirm it's a real glitch? Some are claiming the YouTube video was a hoax. Are there any other sources for it? I can't repeat it. Bradibus 23:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Glitches usually are not important enough to warrant mentioning in an encyclopedia article.  I've occasionally experienced the type of glitch where your character falls "through" the terrain and either (1) dies, or (2) causes the game to freeze, but rare phenomena are of extermely specialist interest and not notable in general.  So unless you think this merits some mention in the article, someone might mistake this discussion as pertaining to the game more than the article. --Stratadrake 23:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't. I should have made my point more clear: There was a section in the article talking about the game's glitches, this one included. However, this one happens to not be reproducible. Either way, the glitches section was removed, so I suppose there's no problem. Bradibus 01:28, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Unless a glitch is totally unavoidable, I don't see any reason it should be mentioned. I have not been able to reproduce any of the glitches that are circling around YouTube. Not to say they're fake, but I believe they are, at the very most, the kind of freak things that happen in games all the time. -- Mellesime 08:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I can't contribute anything of relevance to this discussion short of the knowledge that the bridge glitch is real, at least for the Game Cube version.  It doesn't impede gameplay, and only takes a minute or two of patience to sit through.  It's hardly worth worrying about, definitely not worth including in the main article, and simply comparable to half of Link's body disappearing into the corner of a wall that hadn't been rendered properly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.100.170.216 (talk) 16:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bridge Glitch not verifiable 

message: Doesn't he kind of remind you of Darth vador with his cape and name and glowing sword and tallness?
:1. sign your comments. 2. use a spellcheck. 3. a lot of guys have a cape, are a Dark Lord, have a glowing sword, & are tall. it's cliche. 4. how is this relevant? FyreNWater 01:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dark lord Ganandorf 

message: I split the Bosses from the Dungeons/Settings, because there doesn't seem to be enough information to share between this article and the Characters... page. Also, I thought it would be worthwhile detailing the separate dungeons/settings of the game, similar to the page of settings in Ocarina of Time. --Zooba 13:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting Bosses and Dungeons/Settings 

message: Whoever keeps putting swear words in the article and putting them in under the bosses, please stop. If you really want to do crap like this, go to a chat room. This is an ENCYCLOPEDIA, not a place for people to put crap up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.43.120 (talk • contribs).
:Unfortunately, such users don't read the talk pages, as they're only here to vandalize. Luckily, users and bots are keeping an eye on that to revert vandalism as soon as possible. If it gets really bad, the page can be blocked for non-registered users, but luckily that is not needed yet.
:Thanks for your concern though.
:Happy editting JackSparrow Ninja 06:27, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Crap 

message: I noticed that in the picture that depicts Link in this article displays him holding The Master Sword in his, left hand, but in Twilight Princess, unlike the rest of the games in the series, Link is right-handed.  I think that this picture should be replaced with a more accurate one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darthmgh (talk • contribs) 00:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read past discussions on Link's handedness (is that even a word?). In the GameCube version, Link is left handed while in the Wii version, he is right handed (or vice-versa. I'm not quite sure). There really is no "accurate" photo when it comes to which ever hand Link uses. // Sasuke-kun27 00:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's correct (and the term is "laterality").  In fact, the GCN and Wii versions are mirror opposites of each other (or so I've heard).  Although that seems to make official guidebooks a problem.—ウルタプ 01:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, Never mind then; I only have the Wii version (which is awesome).  And yes, handedness is a word, as well as is laterality, though laterality does not exclusively refer to handedness. Darthmgh 16:24, 5 December 2006 (MST)
Ok guys, here it is, on the Wii, link is righthanded for control purposes, and on gamecube Link is Left handed, as usual. If you ask me, he should have stayed left handed on Wii as well.  
  (User:Keirotuo)
Nintendo said that they switched hands (by mirroring the entire game) so that when you shook your Wii-mote, with your RIGHT HAND, Link wouldn't swing with his left.  In the Game Cube version, Link remains left-handed.  Note, as well, than while Link is right-handed, the entire layout of the world and dungeons are exactly mirrored, so Lake Hylia in the west of Hyrule Field is on the East, instead.  To help seperate the two versions, there are two different versions of the guide, as well.  Kuro Yoake 02:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, it would be prooty cool. But it would essentially be bundling two versions of a large and detailed game in one disk, wouldn't that tax the Wii too much?--The4sword 22:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Right-Handed Link 

message: The Primas Guide is now in stores. If anyone has it, could you please check for a bestiary? If it has one, it would be great if you could update the enemies article, as well as add miniboss names into the dungeon section. -- Mellesime 04:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Japanese Twilight Princess site has some of the bestiary up now, albeit it is the "translated" names of the Japanese enemies - some are the same in the North American vesion, some aren't.  For example Twilit Igniter Fyrus is simply Magdoflamoth in the Japanese version.--TSA 22:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primas Guide 

message: * When using the <ref> tag, you do not have to give it a name unless you cite the source more than once.
* When using the cite web template, the date is wikilinked automatically.
I have gone through and cleaned up all the current references on this page. That said, thanks for writing this article! ---Remember the dot 01:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tips 

message: Three questions. First, isn't there a little too much speculation concerning Renado being a Shiekah and Telma being a Gerudo? Second, I can't remember -- did the Oocca create the Hylians, or are they the ancestors of Hylians? Third -- is the link between the City in the Sky and the Palace of the Winds in Minish Cap worth exploring? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mellesime (talk • contribs) 22:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no specific documentation in-game I've seen to support these claims in whole.  Renado does appear to have the demeanor of a Sheikah, but he does not seem to really divulge enough to reveal if this is so.  Telma acts very much like Nabooru from Ocarina of Time, and her skin tone really makes her out to be more in line with a Gerudo.  However, again, no concrete evidence.  The Oocca speculation is from a quote from Shad - he says there was a race closer to the gods that made the Hylians.  However, there is no in-game evidence the Oocca are these beings.  I can see where the connection is drawn from - Palace of the Winds is in the sky, so is the City in the Sky.  However, the Wind Tribe and Oocca look nothing alike.  --TSA 01:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it good to note that the "Sheikah" as a whole race have traits which they share between them. First and foremost, red eyes. Renado doesn't have red eyes, and nothing within the game ever hinted at him being a Sheikah, however only that he is a Shaman. And the whole Telma bit is pretty much nonsense as well. Nothing within the game hints at her being a Gerudo, and just because her skin is "dark" doesn't mean she's part of a race which almost wholly died out. Renado has dark skin, just like Telma. Is he Guredo then? I mean, just judge "skin tone" by the way Ganondorf looks in Twilight Princess. He is much 'greener' in appearance than 'dark'. Also, what if anything about Telma resembles Nabooru? She is OBVIOUSLY Hylian (look at the ears) and she is a chubby woman, a trait which no Gerudo has. If they're going to have misinformation on a Wiki article, at least leave it open to edit so it doesn't have to stay misinformation (or rather, someones stupid theories which probably stem from never playing the game.) (Stikku 15:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, then, did the "race closer to the Gods" CREATE the Hylians, or are they simply ancestors? As for the Wind Tribe looking different from the Oocca... I can accept that, BUT, if the Oocca AREN'T the "race closer to the Gods," the Wind Tribe could be. On top of that, the Minish Cap place in the timeline is unclear, and there is some evidence that points to it being earlier than Ocarina (I can't remember if Shigeru's statement about Ocarina being first came before or after Minish's release). I don't know, I just thought it was an idea worth exploring. -- Mellesime 02:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fairly certain that the Minish Cap comes first in the Zelda timeline.  I'm not sure if it was Nintendo's site, another game site, or the [Minish Cap] page that I saw it first, but I've definitely read it before.  In any event, it would make sense if the Wind Tribe created the Hylians, given their roll in MC. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dracokanji (talk • contribs) 14:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now, hold on. It is extravagantly unlikely that the Four Swords timeline is even part of the Zelda canon, let alone before OOT. It's just a multiplayer feature because people wanted a multiplayer Zelda. TMC was just a prequel to FS and FSA. For example, TMC claims that the Minish gave the Hylians the "Golden Power" (and the Picori Sword). In truth, the Triforce was put in the Sacred Realm by the Godesses when they left Hyrule. Not only that, but there are no references to a hero before the Hero of Time in any of the games. In addition, FSA has a Dark World, but it deos not transform him into a beast or something as the Dark World does. Furthermore, the Dark Word was not created until the Hero of Time inadvertently gave Ganondorf access to the previously sealed-off Sacred Realm, (where he then twisted it into the Dark World of ALTTP) thus FSA Link(s) could not get into any sort of Dark World; that would be too major an anachronism to slip past the programmers. Plus, there are no references in any other Zelda games to TMC, FS, or FSA. In conclusion: No, The Minish Cap was not first. (Please forgive me for sounding authoritive, I hope it didn't irritate you.)--The4sword 23:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: With all due respect, by saying "it is extravagantly unlikely that the Four Swords timeline is even part of the Zelda canon..." you are basically denying the existance of these three games. I suppose what you say may be valid, and I agree that MC did not come first, but the FS Trilogy DOES fit in with the timeline (though the location is debatable). HeroOfVirtue 23:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

text: According to this video, Shad says there is a legend of a race closer to the gods than the Hylians who could have created the Hylians, not the gods. --TSA 08:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Places & Races 

message: There seemed to be no problem with NPoV, and there was no discussion about NPoV on the talk page, but it does seem to need to be cleaned up. Removed NPoV and replaced with Cleanup. --Pichu0102 16:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Prior to Link first entering the Forest Temple, a number of monkeys have been captured and imprisoned by the malevolent forces currently residing within the temple. It is up to Link to purge the temple of this unwanted presence, and he can only do so via the help of the detained monkeys and by utilizing the magical Gale Boomerang."
that is undoubtedly POV. I dunno which tag to use though. let's just clean it up! Scepia 01:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: That example is not POV in the sense of presenting biased information, but more of presenting a biased (in this case, promotional) tone of voice.   at most.  --Stratadrake 02:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How is it promotional? -- Mellesime 13:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPoV tag replaced with Cleanup tag 

message: There's a couple of parts of the article where it says 'citation needed', but I think it's common knowledge.  Such as the Arbiter's Grounds statement that it's similar to the fashion of the Forest Temple in OoT since you need to defeat four poes to return the light to the torches.  Should I remove the 'citation needed' sign?
Unluckylink13 21:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do. I for one can attest to it being accurate. --Guess Who 23:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I didn't realize the similarity was just about Poes ;) the other citations need to stay though - they are unverified. "In the past, the Temple was known as The Water Temple". no way you know that. they are, for all intents and purposes, seperate. you can't say "In the past, the Arbiter's Grounds was known as the Spirit Temple". Scepia 01:18, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Did somebody re-add that? Because I took it out like a week ago. -- Mellesime 13:39, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: This strikes me as odd:
At the Nintendo E3 2006 Press Conference, President of Nintendo of America Reggie Fils-Aime described Twilight Princess as “...by far the best Zelda game we’ve ever made.”[8]
First, I feel that such a statement doesn't belong in the opening paragraph. It is not general information. Second, I think it is not very neutral to put it into the article. The statement was made by the President of Nintendo of America, so you can safely assume she is not but a little biased. --Soetermans 21:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you for it being in the opening paragraph, but I believe we should keep it in the article, since it's a notable quote by Fils-Aime, since he's NOA's president.    Unluckylink13 21:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps that would fit very nicely under the "Development" section of the article, then.  --Stratadrake 21:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. I put into the development section, as suggested by Stratadrake. --Soetermans 12:29, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weasel words in opening paragraph 

message: I don't know who wrote that or how they came up with it, but it is highly unlikely and chronologically impossible for the Twili to be the descendants of the Gerudo, I think whoever wrote that either has a considerable lack of experience with the Zelda universe or read into things too much. Twilight Princess is set less than a century after Ocarina of Time, so there is no way that an ancient race like the Twili could have descended from the Gerudo, who albeit not on screen, should still exist. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.119.64.233 (talk) 08:36, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not write it, however, Midna near the end in the Palace of Twilight reminds Zant how their original "king" of their tribe lost sight by being blinded by power and greed.  Piecing together what was said earlier about Ganondorf and his followers trying to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm, it is very plausible, though not explicitly stated, the Gerudo became the Twili.  I've seen nothing to rule it out. --TSA 19:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Nice and all, but it's speculation and/or original research, and aside from removing any such material from the article, this has no other relevance to the article.  If you really want to debate Zelda chronology, take it to a Zelda discussion forum.  --Stratadrake 00:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Eh, chill out dude.  The statement should be removed (I agree with that) until it is a fact, at which time it has significant relavence.  Until then, i tis original research or speculation.  --TSA 02:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Guess I'm just a little twitchy about what can be considered on-topic for the article and how.  --Stratadrake 02:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Twili did not descend from the Gerudo... 

message: I heard a rumor on one site that if you get the sinking lure the frog lure and the hylian loach there is some kind of alternate ending where the world is flooded.  I have no idea what soever if this is true or not and was wondering if anyone could clear it up.  Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cantfindaname (talk • contribs) 03:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Having completed the game last night after obtaining both lures and catching the Loach, I can honestly say that the rumor you heard was false. --HeroicJay 20:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate Ending? 

message: Seriously, we got some vandals messing with the reviews. (I'm assuming jealous fanboys). Anyway, we got some people who are changing perfect scores, like 10/10s or 5/5s and changing them to 6.5s, or even, dare I say, 2.5s. By the way, I've been fighting this vandal for at least 15 min. now, so now I tam taking a break from the long fight to ask for some assistance, PLEASE LOCK THIS PAGE, or keep add a BOT or something! 71.117.209.109 22:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Temp block now on the article. --Oscarthecat 22:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ****LOCK THIS ARTICLE NOW!**** 

message: Now that this game has gotten 9, that's right, NINE perfect scores, how about we try to push this article to FA? Seriously, Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time is almost written out like a novel, with well placed screen shots, etc. It's almost sad to watch this amazing game, a game that has won numerous awards and have gotten phenomenally good reviews. (again, 9 perfect scores) I HIGHLY suggest that we fix up this article. What do *YOU* say? 71.117.209.109 23:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fix up first, FAC proposal later. --Stratadrake 23:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reckon it'll get rejected anyway regardless of suitability because it's still changing so often and won't meet the criteria because of that. BigHairRef | Talk 22:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: After we get the page cleaned up enough for Wikipedia standards and maybe find a way of keeping the article stable (i.e., ending the edit wars and getting rid of speculation) we can worry about something like that.  Til then, it's an OK article, but not really amazing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dracokanji (talk • contribs) 14:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A good idea, my unsigned user, but you have to remember that this game has not been out for very long, compared to OoT.  Give it some time, and help the veteran editors, and we'll get it there eventually. Kuro Yoake 03:13, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Now that this game has gotten 9, that's right, NINE perfect scores, how about we... 

message: there's some problems with screenshots. the first half of the article has no images except for the boxart. the second half has 2 things:
*bad screenshots (a scan of a months-old magazine and a screenshot of a pre-release version with a magic bar in it)
*artwork (Skulltula, Goron, Link)
if anyone could get us some nice quality screenshots, that would be great. a screen of Zant would be awesome, he is the Twilight King after all. Midna and Wolf Link are hardly to be seen - look at Image:Linkandmida.jpg Scepia 02:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  screenshots 

message: I made a new article, Places in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, to house all the info about places in the game. On this main game page, hopefully we can narrow down the info on the dungeons, and add more about other places like Lake Hylia. The new places page needs a lot of addition though. Scepia 03:09, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Places in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 

message: I just tried it myself. If you try to save while getting the cannon, then quit, and come back, you'll be stuck in the room which the cannon is in. This should be put in the article. 12.207.127.76 07:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is in the article, though factual or not, I don't think we really need glitches at all. I'm not going to argue, though, this is a fairly big one. --Herald Alberich 08:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CONFIRMED REPORTS OF GAME ENDING BUG 

message: Do we really need to see every single website 's opinion on Twilight Princess? To me, it just crowds the article and makes things look bad. I think one of the best ideas is to cut out everything but the review compliation sites, because readers can easily find specific sites from there. E946 12:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: we need major sites though, like IGN and GameSpot. however, sources like NintendoWorldReport, Hyper, UGO, and AllMusicGuide, which I've never heard of, need to go. Scepia 19:00, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

text: NintendoWorldReport is a major website (formely known a Planet GameCube) and is the largest Nintendo dedicated website. UGO is also a prtty big website. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't make them not importent. I haven't heard of most current rappers, but that doesn't make them less notable. TJ Spyke 22:50, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: your POV is just as POV as my POV. I heard of Planet GameCube, but never was it worthy of a place in the reviews section for a game. IGN, GameSpot, EGM, Nintendo Power, etc. are all in there. we simply can't have every review. if you feel it's necessary, create Reviews for The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Scepia 01:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Planet Gamecube and its successor sites are pretty much worthless review sources.  I had actually never heard about NintendoWorldReport until you brought up that it used to be Planet Gamecube. Outside of the Nintendo fanboy community, it has zero relevance or influence, certainly nothing compared to the scale of Famitsu, EGM or Edge magazine, and not even competing with the IGN or Gamespots of this world.  This isn't Metacritic, we don't just list every review no matter what. If you need any more evidence of why PGC should be ignored, try reading their Mario Tennis: Power Tour review. - hahnchen 06:06, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can find reviews from sites like IGN and GameSpot that suck (and from magazines like Game Informer with their PM2 review), does that mean they should re removed? NWR is a major Nintendo website (the biggest), and since this is a major Nintendo game, it should be included. TJ Spyke 06:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (I'll repeat what I said on your talk page)I would like to point out that IGN and GameSpot must have 10 times the readership, at the least, of Nintendo World Report. just because it's the biggest Nintendo-only site means nohting. if I have the biggest pink bottle-cap collecting site, does that mean anything special? no. Scepia 06:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

text: You're right in that you can find reviews that suck from any publication.  games TM gave Boiling Point: Road to Hell a 9/10, Dave Halverson from play magazine (US) gives pretty much every single platform game a 10 (he later downgraded his 9.5 score for the latest Sonic game citing that he was told the load times were going to be fixed for release, rather than admitting he's hopelessly biased towards platformers and useless as a reviewer),  Gamespot rated Halo 2 higher than Half-Life 2 due to their lack of editorial control.  Each one of those reviews are wrong, but every game released gets a crapload of reviews, and we don't have a crapload of space in the reviews box.  So put in the big names such as EGM and Famitsu, and let the Metacritics cover the others. - hahnchen 19:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Yeah, you're an assclown.  Get over it.  There's a school of thought that claims the holocaust never happened, heck, there's a conference in Iran now if you're interested.  That's their opinion, and they're wrong.  Which incidentally, is my opinion.  You still fail to get this don't you?  This probably wasn't even your point, you're just annoyed that I don't jizz over Halo in my sleep. - hahnchen 17:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please lay off the personal attacks and comparing a disagrement over review scores to holocaust denial is a really bad comparsion that should never be made. --67.68.155.121 03:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Naturally, I wouldn't have picked such a strong example had you not reacted as you did to the perfectly valid point I made over consistency in review scores. All publications fuck up from time to time, simple as that.  We should just list the influential and big names in. - hahnchen 17:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I was. I was disagreeing with thew analysis you made and found it to be too strong. I am sorry for any confusion I caused and would have stated that I was a different person if I thought that there would have been confusion on the matter. I also would have resonded eariler but my IP range was autoblocked. --67.68.155.143 18:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, the box is just generally too long. I think pre-release awards (which aren't too important anyway) should be mentioned in the text of the Development section, E3 best of show awards aren't that relevant to the final reception of the game. This game is bound to pick up more awards after its release. - hahnchen 06:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review box 

message: Is there any information, perhaps something that can be put in, that states when Twilight Princess was first announced for development? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WarriorofZarona (talk • contribs) 01:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: E3 2004 is when it was first announced. TJ Spyke 01:36, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: is it possible that the development was announced earlier? for example, we know The Legend of Zelda (Wii) is under development, but have no info. Scepia 01:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a few months earlier it had been confirmed that "The Wind Waker 2" would be released for GameCube. E3 was when the current look was confirmed (and had Miyamoto wielding a replica Master Sword and shield. TJ Spyke 01:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TP announcement? 

message: Can anybody verify whether the cannon room/save glitch occurs in the GC version as well? - Cyrus XIII 10:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah, if anyone with the GCN version could copy their save file and try it out, they won't lose their game. I would think it applies for the GCN too, considering Nintendo has yet to acknowledge it and the GCN version was made a while ago at least. Scepia 22:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cannon room glitch in both versions? 

message: Look this game has been awarded 9 or 10 PERFECT reviews from notable and referenceable reviwers. Now I look back on all the reviews this game has been getting. And some elitist bastard got rid of at least 1/2 of them just because he wanted to keep what he saw fit. Well I have news for y'all, once I get back from work today it WILL be changed to it's 1st state, is that understood? Dragong4 17:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not though is it?  We all know this.  You know this.  See the conversation above over why some of the links were removed.  I didn't remove any myself.  But there are hundreds of reviews for this game across many languages, take a look at some of our Featured Articles such as Halo: Combat Evolved and The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, we don't just list every single review.  All I did personally, was move the Metacritic and Gamerankings sites to the top of the list, where users can goto for that kind of thing. - hahnchen 18:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If I had my way, all but the gamerakings and metacritic scores would be gone, because they contain links to the other other reviews  we're mentioning. Seeing a million 10/10 and 5/5 scores isn't going to add anything to what is already said in the 'reception' section. All it does is clutter the article. E946 18:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can understand where you're coming from 946, but I think its useful to have a snapshot of what the big publications are saying about the game, I'm quite happy with the section as it is.  I'd probably take out something like Gamespy and put an Edge review in, but at least we've got rid of the Nintendo fansites et al. - hahnchen 20:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

text: be civil. if you're gonna call me those names, take it to the talk page at least. I removed the non-notable reviews. I left the notable reviews from notable sites like IGN and GameSpot. if you feel a certain source is notable enough to be included, please mention it. Scepia 06:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you really, really feel that this game's quality is misrepresented, adding information to the 'reception' section would tell the reader a lot more about the game's quality than would just throwing more reviews at them. Just remember to cite sources, keep it professional, and keep an encyclopedic(sp?) tone. E946 08:51, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uh wow WTF happened here? Somebody is out to cut and run on the Zelda reviews 

message: There were a few things I was considering to remove all the clutter in this article. Feel free to reply to each individual point instead of replying at the end. E946 19:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I cut down on that section - I think at least some of the items should be mentioned here, but a new page would be agreeable. Scepia 05:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Kuro Yoake 03:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going through the weapons and items section right now, and am shortening it, by removing specific information regarding certain items, rather than mentions.  Most of the information listed in the article currently can be found in Weapons and items from The Legend of Zelda series. Kuro Yoake 11:45, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

text: see comment on number 3. Scepia 05:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I chopped down a lot of unnecessary information, so this part of the article is much shorter. E946 08:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I think I've moved it well, but now the gameplay section is lacking and the development section too long. :P Scepia 05:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved a lot of information that talked about the Wii version's gameplay to gameplay where it belongs, so they're balanced out again. E946 08:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  General cleanup 

message: "Golden bugs roam around Hyrule. Catching these bugs and giving them to a girl will give wallet upgrades."
The "girl"'s name is Princess Agitha, and she doesn't give only wallet upgrades - for every single bug she gives you 50 Rupees, and if you manage to get a pair, she'll give you 100 Rupees for the second partner.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.133.182 (talk • contribs) 
:Apparently you haven't played the game then. Both of the wallet ugrades in the game are from giving here bugs. You get the first upgrade from giving her 1 bug (she also gives you 200 rupees for the first one), and you get the second upgrade from giving her all 24. TJ Spyke 22:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: stop the personal attacks TJ, and read what the user said. they said wallet upgrades aren't the only think Agitha gives, and money is also given. that is true, and should be reflected on the page. Scepia 08:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That wasn't a personal attack (and I don't know how you can interpet it that way), and I apoligize to them for misreading what they said. TJ Spyke 08:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem about the misunderstanding, and I didn't consider it an attack. I still haven't finished the game (I'm European, it came later), but I've been collecting the bugs, although I still lack eight. But thanks for the info, and you should also add what I said, that for a single bug you gain 50 Rupees, and once you get a pair you gain 100 Rupees. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.196.5.120 (talk) 00:03, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "bug girl" is Princess Agitha 

message: I decided to make the lists of races and places simply a bulleted list instead of a bunch of subsections because they unnecessarily clutter the TOC, and both lists are short enough that any reader could find the race they were looking for without having to scroll much. There are simply no advantages to having a subsection for each. E946 05:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Races/places: List vs. subsections 

message: In the same vein as the Characters section, I don't think information on the places should be on the main page, as there's simply too much. --Zooba 13:19, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: don't you think major places/characters should receive a line of two? sure, we could write a 30-page essay on each of them, but we should still mention them so people can get an idea of what's in the game. Scepia 20:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If so, then we should do the same with the characters etc. Personally, I would simply describe the six provinces and their geographical relation to each other, but nothing other than that. --Zooba 23:13, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting information on Places in the main article 

message: Er, aren't they called the Twii? 88.110.167.60 16:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to clarify, I've played the whole game through and I'm sure they were called the Twii - if anyone can point me to a location in the game where it can be proved otherwise (somewhere I can get to in a completed save file) then I'm good. :) 88.110.167.60 16:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Completed save file?  Not likely.  They're mostly mentioned in cutscenes.  I'll do some looking around sources, and see what I can't find, but I'm sure they were called the Twili.  (Makes sense, doesn't it?  They live in the Twilight Realm, so they're called the Twili?) Kuro Yoake 18:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm certain that they're the Twili. --Guess Who 19:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just checked some of the videos TSA put on Google Video - Twili.  Easy to misread, though.
another reason it's twili, it's like the plural of twilight :D Pikasneez27 03:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twili? 

message: Personally, I don't think it is. It's nothing special, so thus not worth mentioning. --Zooba 15:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No need for that section at all. -- ReyBrujo 20:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because of the "lack of need" for that section, I removed it.  Makes me feel good to know I'm an "established user" to help out this protected article.  Kuro Yoake 20:49, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess for now it doesn't need to be in, that might change if sites like IGN or magazines like EGM point it out. BTW, "established user" just means your account is at least 3 days old. I'm glad you feel good though and encourage you to continue editing. TJ Spyke 22:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

text: We are not an instruction manual, and you are giving steps to reproduce/prevent that from happening. We can mention there is a glitch, we can mention it renders a save file useless, but nothing more. We don't have to say how to make it happen, or how to prevent it. That is not in the scope of Wikipedia. Also, you can't use YouTube videos as reference. Find reliable references, not fan videos.  -- ReyBrujo 16:15, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mentioning it but not going into detail defeats the purpose of mentioning it in the first place. E946 17:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That information can go at StrategyWiki, but we are not an indiscriminate collection of information. HOWTO's, instruction manuals, advices, recipes and similar are not acceptable content for the encyclopedia. -- ReyBrujo 18:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: why did you remove the section? it will be easy enough to clean that section up. what lack of references do you speak of? you can clearly see from the YouTube video what the glitch is like. Scepia 21:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sources: In general, sources of dubious reliability are sources with a poor reputation for fact-checking or with no fact-checking facilities or editorial oversight. YouTube can't be used as reference because they have no fact-checking. It is no different from opening a GeoCities page and add the description of the glitch there. You can add the section back, but find an article at GameSpot, GameSpy, Gamasutra, IGN or similar, not a forum post or a YouTube or Google video to back the claim up. -- ReyBrujo 21:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm sure there are plenty of websites, Joystiq and the like, that point it out. and this is not some glitch where you have to hack your game. we don't need references for the content of the glitch, because it's outright in the game. you or I could go and do the glitch, quite easily. Scepia 21:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (edit conflict) No, we don't need a reference for the content of the glitch. We need a reference that states this is a serious glitch. -- ReyBrujo 21:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

text: We're not trying to create an "indicriminate collection of howto's and instruction manuals". The instant we document and describe every single one that occurs, i'll agree with you, but until then, I believe that a single section isn't out of the question. Besides, you have bigger fish to fry. If you're worried about game guide stuff on this article, then tackle the weapons and items section for us before going after a game breaking glitch. E946 05:52, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Giving information about how to trigger or resolve the glitch is unnecessary. We don't give instructions, we don't tell them what to do or what not to do. As for the items section, yes, it borders game info, thus I have added a  tag there. -- ReyBrujo 06:32, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I think there should be a section, because save glitches are quite common in the wii version, and it would be a useful addition, that is if someone on here can verify it. NightLord 01:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since when does two occurrences (one of which isn't confirmed) turn into "quite common"? E946 10:02, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to add that Ocarina of Time has dozens, if not hundreds, of glitches; yet there is no glitches section. True, there is a "Leftovers" section, but there is--The4sword 01:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

text: The glitch in question is so obviously 'severe' that it shouldn't even be a point of discussion, frankly.  It only happens in one very specific room at one very specific point, between Dungeons 6 and 7, out of a total of 8.  If triggered, it causes it to be Impossible to Advance any further in the game.  There is no fix or workaround other than not triggering it.  A plot critical NPC simply despawns from the gameworld entirely, and you cannot advance to the 7th dungeon without talking to him once more.  Anyone that triggers this bug has to start the game completely over, unless they have another save file.  The combination of completely preventing further advancement combined with being completely unrecoverable is fairly unusual.  Even so, it definitely doesn't deserve its own section.  But considering the extraordinary severity it probably does need a mention.  And frankly, calling a mention of it a 'how-to' or 'game guide' is dubious at *best*.  It's a warning, plain and simple.  And frankly... it seems to me some people around here are getting so stodgy, pompous, and inflexible that wikipedia is starting to lose the very humanity and openness that made it so popular in the first place.  Fact is, a mention in this article could help hundreds, or even thousands of people to avoid having to spend 30 or 40 hours, at least, to redo the entire first part of the game again because they saved at the one point in the game that breaks the entire thing.  -Graptor 66.42.135.93 18:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the Glitch section really necessary? 

message: Well, I'm hesitant to do so, but I think that section could be removed entirely.  Most of the information provided can be found in the Weapons and items from The Legend of Zelda series article, and provides specific information not supposed to be entered in THIS article.  Of course, instead of removing the entire article, we could provide a list of items and weapons, and just refer them to the aforementioned article.  Which would be best?  If I can get some clearance, I'll gladly remove it, but I don't want to be the one to remove such a huge section without some prior approval.  Kuro Yoake 11:52, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO, a list of indiscriminate information is no better than what we have now (I'm also pretty sure that Wikipedia is not a list of indiscriminate information). Perhaps simply list what items are in the game, but also detail new items and how older items have been changed (?) --Zooba 15:10, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lists are frowned upon. You need to use prose. So, you can write a paragraph stating some (not all!) of the items that are available, comparing them with previous versions if necessary, but we don't need a list of items at all. -- ReyBrujo 20:41, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All right, then which weapons/items do we believe should take precedence in this section?  If you can provide me with what you think is best, I can write up some good prose for it. Kuro Yoake 07:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: These are just my opinion, but I think that the bow & arrow and Clawshot should be mentioned for sake of being point-and-click items in the Wii version, as well as the differences between their older version (i.e. Clawshot doesn't release from a grapple point automatically, not to mention Double Clawshots), and as for the new items, the Spinner is probably worth mentioning for its ability to traverse on rails.  --Stratadrake 08:26, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Item Section 

message: Personally, I think the GameCube version should take precedence over the Wii one. Even though the Wii version came out first and is the more popular of the two, the game was primarily designed for the GameubeJonny2x4 16:02, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See the #directions section previously.  --Stratadrake 16:08, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

text: What I took from it was that 99% of the attention, especailly from Nintendo, is being directed at the Wii version. If the developers themselves are giving more attention to the Wii version then I think we should too. E946 19:56, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I myself would lean towards the Wii, having played both versions of the game, why not just make a compromise?  It won't be as easy with the information, but just list the Wii directions, and in parentheses, put the opposite to match up with the GameCube.  For instance:  "Lake Hylia is east of Hyrule Castle (west in the GC version)..."Kuro Yoake 20:24, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This same method has to be applied to Places in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess as well.  And any related pages.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 08:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GameCube version should take precedence? 

message: Are we sure that at the end of the game that Link is shown reiding towards Ordon Village? I'm pretty sure the direction he is shown as riding is as actually away from the village towards Hyrule field. BigHairRef | Talk 19:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  End movie (Spoilers) 

message: Do all the enemies have official names? If so, we should start updating the enemies section, or the LoZ series enemies page. Specifically, what are the names of the giant shadow insect, the mini and large spiders, the shadow mini-boss in the desert temple, the skeletal ice warriors, and the various enemies of the Twilight Realm? 24.118.151.169 23:29, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: These are probably in strategy guides. I haven't edited the page much because I haven't finished the game and I don't want to read ahead (and ruin the story for me). TJ Spyke 23:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't even fought the shadow mini-boss, but I DO know that the small and large spiders are Skulltulas, much like the older ones in OoT.  They have a skull pattern on their abdomen, and the larger ones are armored.  Kuro Yoake 00:46, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enemies 

message: I went through the entire thing and combined a number of sentences to make it flow a bit better.  I went into a bit more detail in some parts, as well, and helped the descriptions actually feel interesting.  Also, I removed the "Requires cleaning" tag for that section.  Comments?  Kuro Yoake 19:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major Enemies Section overhaul. 

message: Anyone think so? They kinda look alike, except the howling stones have a hole in the middle.--Yellow Stripe 18:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Howling Stones" = Gossip Stones from OoT? 

message: On the site, I saw it receiving Best Gamecube Game of 2006 and Best Wii Game of 2006. David Fei 18:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to add them if that's true. TJ Spyke 21:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

text: It's true.   --67.71.79.225 07:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aren't there awards for this game from IGN? 

message: Hi, I think that the "Twilight Princess is the first game in The Legend of Zelda series to be rated T by the ESRB, for animated blood and fantasy violence." is out of place with the introduction and I think it would be better off under trivia.--ChibiMrBubbles 22:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That sentence not only conveys the rating of the game, but also the "connection" it has to other games, so to speak. And articles should not have trivia sections generally, so no reason to add one. Scepia 01:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move the noteable T rating fact to trivia? 

message: Director Aonuma reported saying that he wanted to give TP's world a manga inspired look. I'm looking for the Nintendo Power issue that mentioned that, so far I have IGN's article:
Eiji Aonuma wanted Link to sport a manga-inspired look, partly because the Link shown in the Space World 2000 looked like a lifeless puppet. Link and other characters still look more realistic, especially considering the visual style employed in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, only with slightly exaggerated facial features. It's an interesting blend of realism and fantasy. 
The wikipedia article makes no mention of the artistic style Aonuma and perhaps we can include it?--ChibiMrBubbles 22:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manga inspired graphics 

message: Okay. When the sages seal Ganondorf away, they attempt to execute him, fail, and seal him away with the mirror of twilight. Now, in Ocarina, they seal him away when Link and Zelda are present, without a mirror and certainly not with an execution. My question is: Is this the same sealing from OOT anyway? Is it from a different Zelda? If so, which one? (Perhaps the next Wii Zelda?)--The4sword 03:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It makes it really interesting, something referenced in a 3D game could have happened in a 2D game. In a way, Link was the executioner for Ganon OoT. Link tried to kill Ganon in OoT, the sages tried in TP. Sealed to Sacred Realm in OoT, and Twilight Realm in TP. Nothing is even remotely confirmed though. I think a lot of things were just shown to make sense as part of the given game. Probably, the execution will never happen in a Zelda game again. Scepia 05:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An interesting topic, but you have to remember that the Sages who sealed him the first time looked much different.  It's my speculation that with time, their bodies withered and they became THESE sages.  Remember, also, in TWW, it talks about a time when a hero was needed, but never came.  This could be after Ganondorf somehow escaped the Sacred Realm.  From there, it would be up to the sages to try and execute Ganondorf, and fail, seeing as how that sword was nothing like the blade of evil's bane.  They would then resort to sealing him away in the Twilight Realm.  Simply my speculation, but it would make sense to me.  Kuro YoakeSpeak to me!! 05:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's impossible. If this was after the time when the hero never came, surely Hyrule would be flooded? --Guess Who 08:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also probably true.  Again, I'm just speculating.  This Ganondorf looks older, even in the Execution scene, than Ganondorf did when he was first sealed, so we'll just have to see how he got out, eh? Kuro YoakeSpeak to me!! 13:54, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Or maybe there's going to be another game that takes place between TP and WW that explains everything in TP's backstory. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shinin (talk • contribs) 18:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ganon seal 

message: Now that the majority of the article has been mostly sorted vis-a-vis stability and actual content rather than speculation, what would anyone think about nominating it for GA status? Personally I'd support it but what does anyone else think? BigHairRef | Talk 21:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would first consider seeing if there is consensus to remove the cleanup tag. I don't think a nomination would go well if that was there and also is there was disagreement about whether more substantial cleanup was needed I see little to no chance of success for obvious reasons. --70.48.111.125 23:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Not yet, certainly not yet. For example, in the characters and enemies section, all there is is "Main article: Characters in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess". There needs to be content there, not just a link to another article. This article isn't stable enough, maybe in a few months, but it needs a lot of work IMO. Scepia 00:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Has anyone got anything else to say on this because we're appearing to stagnate a bit in anyting other than minor changes in the article and it's posisble this is because most of the major issues with the article have been sorted in some way. If not can we have any more comment because parts of this article definitely show (IMHO) GA standard with only small bits that need editing. But if someone else can see major problems it'll be for the good of the whole article that someone points them out.BigHairRef | Talk 13:19, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Nomination 

message: I shortened the release date info in the intro a lot. I also added a few sentences of non-spoiler plot. Release dates don't matter much, and they can be found in the infobox. Plot is very important, and I encourage people to improve it! Scepia 07:12, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  intro clean up 

message: Should there be speculation about who belongs to what race? That seems like original research to me. I am specifially referring to the Kakariko shaman and Ashei being "assumed" as Sheikah. TJ Spyke 05:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just Say No to speculation and original research.  --Stratadrake 08:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Race speculation 

message: This game has no magic system. Not even a Magic Meter.
Hasn't that, not happened since the first Zelda?! (Omitting handheld games?)
I wonder if that's worth mentioning... Phred Levi 22:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Magic 

message: There is a citation needed for "The goddesses created the Mirror of Twilight, a device to banish beings into the Twilight Realm (though it can also be used to enter the realm normally)." Is the citation needed for them creating the mirror or entering the realm normally. Because if it's entering the realm normally then it should be changed to "The goddesses created the Mirror of Twilight, a device used as a link between the Twilight Realm and Hyrule" because the only reason sages are able to use it to banish people is because those banished don't have the powers to come back through the mirror. 
Deflagro 01:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not Particularly useful, but it seemed to me while playing that the Mirror opens a two-way portal.  If you were banishing someone, all you'd have to do is shove them in and then shut the door behind them.  There's no way to open it on the Twilight side, so they end up stuck.  That would imply that the mirror wasn't really intended to be used that way, though...  -Graptor 66.42.135.93 19:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: At GameFAQs. The Captain Returns 13:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Those are fan polls though, so I don't think they mean much. TJ Spyke 23:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: GameFAQs is constantly noted in the Top Rated Videogames articles. The Captain Returns 23:29, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That wouldn't make any difference, it's still just a fan poll (one which is very easy to cheat in). TJ Spyke 23:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: TJ, unless you have a reliable source for your doubt and concern it seems like it is at least worth a mentioning in the article's section on reception/awards. Konman72 21:19, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you want proven? That it's just a fan poll (go to the site and see how you, a fan, can vote) or that it's easy to cheat (go to the site, vote once logged in, once without -and if you want more, use a dns tool to spoof your ip)? JackSparrow Ninja 22:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TP won Game of the Year 2006 for Wii, Gamecube, and Overall 

message: Why is a citation necessary? It's well-established in the series the the Hyrule Royal Family and all the Links are Hylian, and Shad mentions the Hylians in Telma's Bar when discussing the Oocca. --Guess Who 23:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because Link is also called Human (I think) in TP. TJ Spyke 23:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think that was a mistake or just not clear. None of the characters are human. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 04:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Jusging by the way which humans are distiguished in TWW's manual as having normal ears, I think it's be safe to assume at an absolute minimum Ilia is a human.BigHairRef | Talk 09:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

text: None of the Ordon villagers (Link excluded) have pointed ears, making them human. Link, however, has the Hylian pointed ears. --Guess Who 01:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just replayed the beginning of the game, that goat rancher guy (I don't feel like checking his name) calls Link a human being. Maybe Hylians are like a subspecies of humans. TJ Spyke 00:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Any time Hylians are mentioned as a group, they called the "Hylian race." It's my understanding that Hylians are a race of humanity, just as Caucasians or Africans are races here. Non-Hylians like the Ordonians are probably just called "humans" for lack of a more specific term. --Herald Alberich 03:50, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hylians - "Citation Needed" 

message: SUBJECT say says it all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.90.114.197 (talk) 02:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  okay so why the hell did we get rid of the 1UP review? I mean seriously it got a 10/10, extremely notable, i'm putting it back in.