Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 31

message: The merger discussion is still happening but I don't know if it's going anywhere. It's pretty much about individual notability vs. redundancy and separation of info. I'd love if some fresh voices could chime in. ~ JohnnyMrNinja 08:36, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pokemon merger, still 

message: So the current status quo is no flags and three letter country text.
I think we should keep battering away at this issue and get it nailed down. I'll try and run with some of the ideas above and make infoboxes of them using real-life examples (from simple to horrendous) to try and find the best all-round solution.  - X201 08:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, not just country text but country or region text, and not necessarily three letters (could be two). Kariteh 08:34, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Or full names. :) I agree that we should keep going with this until we get something sorted. Miremare 17:08, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Re-cap

message: As a project, we keep running into issues with lists of things, and whether they are notable, encyclopaedic and necessary. I have been thinking of writing a difficult guideline with all kinds of inclusion tests involving reliable sources and difficult policies. However, given the scope of our project, it might actually be easier to name the most frequent examples. It would make AFD a lot easier, and would divert a lot of energy towards actual article writing. A draft is in User:Krator/Sandbox2, transcluded below. User:Krator (t c) 18:57, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A guideline on lists, perhaps? 

message: I believe that this template has grown overly large (being substantially longer than some of the articles it's on) and would suggest that it be split into two or three smaller templates. For instance, the "franchises" part could be a separate Template:Sega franchises. >Radiant< 11:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Suggestion: make all subdivisions hide/showable, as the templates at the bottom of Germany are. User:Krator (t c) 14:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template_talk:Sega]] 

message: I noticed that the page for Castles 2 says it's a Windows (and others) game and the requirements says Windows 95 for PC.   This isn't true; the game was a DOS game, released in 1992 (which is correct on the page for MacOS, but for PC it says 1995) thus wouldn't require Windows 95.   In fact, it doesn't run under Windows 95 very well; you'd have to reboot into DOS mode to make it run correctly.
I suggest we fix it.  (I'd have done it, but this Project Video Games thing made it look like I shouldn't do so.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbreaker (talk • contribs) 
:If your statement is true, then be bold and change it. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 00:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Castles II: Siege and Conquest]] - Not a Windows Game 

message: :Category:Animal video games: is this needed? It's a bit broad to me. You could classify Sonic (among many others) as animal video games. I'm thinking of sending it to CFD, as a clear case of overcategorization, and it's too broad. What does everyone else think? RobJ1981 04:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: CFD. User:Krator (t c) 07:41, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

text: AKA the Zoo Tycoon and Wildlife Park category. CFD - X201 07:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

text: CFD; far too broad, even humans are technically animals. Haipa Doragon (talk) 16:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just put it in CFD, if anyone wants to comment. RobJ1981 00:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Category question

message: Heya.  I'm not sure how things work around here, but I thought that this page might fall under the umbrella of your project, since Nintendo is featured prominently in the film.  Just bringing it to your attention.  --UsaSatsui 20:25, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible page to your WikiProject

message: Anyone want to help kick the tires around for :Template:VG Requirements, a template to help with personal computer-based system requirements.  I currently only have it set to handle one platform type in the box, as making the other versions is just a matter of copy, paste, and replace, but I want to make sure the way the table looks and works for just one platform is going to meet everyone's goals.   (Document is on the page as well as an example). --Masem 23:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Template:VG Requirements]] 

message: An anonymous editor has been adding links to http://www.atarimania.com/ to large numbers of game articles without any particular reasoning and without any real attempt to understand WP:EL as far as I can see from the discussion on my page. Any views on whether these links should be kept or removed? Cheers --Pak21 11:22, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Remove. User:Krator (t c) 11:31, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd still add  or  even if it is an anon, so administrators know what they're dealing with if there's a problem in the future, and also so that the editor realizes A)it's SPAM, and B)we've noticed. I'd do it myself, but you haven't named the IP, which is quite tactful of you.~ JohnnyMrNinja 14:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really tactful, but more due to the fact that it's a whole bunch of IP addresses in 217.83.0.0/16 (see my contributions around 11:50 GMT on 4 September). The editor is certainly aware I think it's spam. --Pak21 14:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

text: You haven't got any indication that the ROM images on the games pages are there with the copyright owners approval - World of Spectrum (your example) actively searches for copyright holders to get their approval (or not) and publishes their communications with the copyright holders on their site. I can find no such respect of copyright on your page which means that the WP:EL restrictions on linking statement "Sites that violate the copyrights of others" applies. - X201 15:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atari Mania links 

message: I have been working on improving the List of PlayStation 2 games, which is in pretty poor condition, but when I looked in WP:STYLE I couldn't find any guidance on alphabetical listings.  Should spaces be ignored in this list, or should they come before any letter?  Here's an example of what is confusing me: should Starsky & Hutch come before Star Wars or after? New User 02:21, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Star Wars would go first - I don't know about a guideline, but that's how things are usually done. Dihydrogen Monoxide 02:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen it done both ways- just pick which one you like best and be consistent. --PresN 06:26, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alphabetical Order 

message: As I looked at the article (for the first time in a month or so): I noticed there was some edit warring going on. In late July it was made into a disambig page: then from that point on, it was changed numerous times. The talk page has little activity (no comments since late July), so obviously the editors that were fighting just gave up. In my view: the disambig was just fine, as the game doesn't feature many new things. In my opinion: other collection games should be setup the same way, as there isn't much to say about them besides the usual "This game has these previous games on it" along with a list of them, and brief descriptions that are elsewhere. What does everyone else think? RobJ1981 08:41, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it can't be redirected anywhere that makes sense, it should have its own article. I don't quite understand what makes a disambig better than a full article. --Mika1h 08:59, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps some sort of reception section could be added at least. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 11:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the point of a small article that duplicates content from 2 articles already? It's not a full article, it's a small article that isn't useful. If the games in the compilation were changed a lot: I could understand a normal article. But in this case: there is very little new content. Here is a link to the disambig version: . RobJ1981 01:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer the article as it is. Obviously, it doesn't need to explain the gameplay of the two games, but there are little details that are quite informative. In short, I don't see the problem with leaving it as a "fat disambig" as it is.--SeizureDog 06:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Tetris & Dr. Mario]] issues again

message: The parts tagged "in-universe", specifically the "Fictional universe" section. A IP has added these tags so I am not quite sure if "F-Zero machines" actually need much work. FMF 18:18, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyeditor needed for [[F-Zero (series)|F-Zero]] 

message: Kingdom Hearts (series) has just passed its FA nomination successfully. Mana (series) seems to be on its way to success too, although one objection remains: the article needs copyediting. It would be a shame if its FA nomination fails only because of this, so please consider helping. I copyedited it a bit, but English isn't even my first language and I spent a lot of time on the article since its early days as a stub-class, so it would be great if a pair of "fresh eyes" could look at it. Kariteh 17:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mana series FAC 

message: It needs a bit of work. The plot should be condensed and cleaned. Also, what should be done about the development section? The making of a game is important, but I personally don't think it should be that big. The game is popular and a big Nintendo title: but that doesn't justify huge sections that could be condensed. Anyone willing to help? RobJ1981 05:09, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can help improve the plot once I'm done with the game, but I don't think the development section is bad, it's actually a good length (particularly once you cut down the plot) for a modern game.  --Masem 05:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I just tackled it (I'm a 91% in game, I'm not worried about spoilers *grin*), and got that down to 4 paragraphs for the plot.  Probably could be trimmed a tad it more. --Masem 05:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Is the Voice cast section really necessary? Ashnard Talk Contribs 06:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Super Mario 64 (former FA) included it, so I included it on Super Princess Peach (former GA on my own accord both for nom/delisting).  I guess it could be removed.  At the very least delete the voice actors without context – that is, the ones that don't list who they voiced. hbdragon88 20:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The question to ask is, is the voice work or voice cast notable outside of the game? (this applies to all examples above).  It would be one thing if a significant celebrity was voicing a character, but if it's the usual no-namers or regular players, it can probably be dropped. --Masem 20:09, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that. By the way, does anybody else feel that the gameplay section is rather... inadequate? I've mentioned on the talk page about the lack of any mention of scanning. Ashnard Talk Contribs 18:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would normally group all the common features of a series into the series page (this being Metroid (series) in this case) and then  to that, such that the gameplay summarizes the existing and briefly discusses the new features. But remember, just like plot, the gameplay should be limited to notable features that make sense to a non-gamer that will likely never ever play the game.  Yes, scanning is important, it should be noted, but I think the size of the gameplay section is actually a tad long? maybe... --Masem 18:31, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Metroid Prime 3: Corruption]] article in need of work

message: Are there official guidelines regarding the use of this template? In particular, I would like to know how character quotes should be formatted (Character: text). Apparently, a lot of articles put the character name in bold then the text in regular font (Character: text); however, this directly clashes with the Wikipedia guidelines WP:MOSBOLD. Since MOSBOLD is a guideline rather than a policy, I suppose we could continue using bold font in VG articles if this usage were one of our guidelines, but I've seen it written nowhere in the project's manual of style pages. Thoughts? I'm asking this because of Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mana (series) by the way. Kariteh 09:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No comment? I'm sure I'll upset many people if I start removing these bold font from all the quotes used in video game articles, so please say something. Kariteh 21:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I dislike the bold face used for the character names when citing something said by a specific character. This is bad per WP:MOSBOLD, so a change would definitely have my support. User:Krator (t c) 00:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Halo: Combat Evolved, Halo 2, Final Fantasy VII, VIII IX and X, Metal Gear Solid... most use bold text because otherwise the transcripts are incredibly hard to read for quotes. Incidentally, basically no one uses the quote= paremeter of , because it places it last in the citation, which is extremely unhelpful. David Fuchs (talk) 00:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest changing the placement of the quote, then. Maybe replace the bold face with underlining? User:Krator (t c) 00:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Underlining is forbidden in the same guideline because "it may be confused with links on a web page." Kariteh 09:41, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the best thing to do here is to forget it. As it's a guideline, and in the interests of clarity, I think it's safe to ignore. After all, it's in the references section anyhow, so it's out of the way. David Fuchs (talk) 18:39, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|Cite video game}} 

message: I'm getting a weird problem on the Sega Mega Drive and the Sega Mega-CD articles. The images of the consoles are not displaying, all other articles that use tamplate VG system are OK except for the two Sega articles, if I drop the image size by a couple of px the images reappear. Might be some problem with images that are coming over from Wikimedia but could some one have a quick look to see if they have the same problem, thanks. - X201 22:26, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The images are not appearing for me either.  In fact, I have seen similar instances on other wikipedia articles over the past couple days (can't remember any particular article though). New User 22:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, no images. I saw the same thing with some other images yesterday, but those seem to have righted themselves now, so it's obviously nothing to worry about. Miremare 22:49, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I purged it and it restored the image but it only lasted for a couple of hours and then went again. - X201 21:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Weird (disappearing) image size problem

message: Nights: Journey of Dreams was recently moved to NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams despite a clear consenus on the first game's talkpage not to use the spelling NiGHTS and noting even remotly close to a consensus to change the second games talk page. I am not regestered so I can't move it. I am asking help to move the page due to there being no consensus to move it and the fact that the current name is a clear violation of the mostm. --69.156.205.15 03:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put up a request to move the pages back to their original pages over at Wikipedia:Requested moves. NeoChaosX  (talk, walk) 07:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And further, left a warning over at the mover's talk page to discuss moveso n the talk page before doing them first. NeoChaosX  (talk, walk) 07:46, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with a name change 

message: Given that Lemmings (video game) is high on inclusion for the CVG project, I've been trying to tidy it up so that I can GA/FA it.  Thankfully, Mike Dailly has a couple of first-hand accounts of development and some reception, but I'm lacking more on its reception itself which I think is needed before taking it to a GA.   The magazine archive page unfortunately lacks issues around the timeframe I need, so I'm trying to find present articles that cite Lemmings as being a critical game ("top 100 games") or how it has influenced other games, but my google-fu is not working well.  If you have a good lead on any such articles, please feel free to add it or point me to it them.  Any other general help on the page is appreciated as well. --Masem 16:12, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember reading a big feature on it in Official Nintendo Magazine; quite a lot of its legacy was mentioned there. I'm not sure how things work with magazines, but I'm pretty sure that I have that issue with me. Ashnard Talk Contribs 17:37, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: The first game was featured in Edge's recent Top 100 list. I'll check to see if there's a quotation from there that might be useful. --Nick RTalk 03:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anyone with historical help for [[Lemmings (video game)|Lemmings]]? 

message: Does this need to exist? It seems a bit broad to me. Do other similar categories exist? RobJ1981 23:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing else like it for video games in the sub-cats list. Charlie. Foxtrot. Delta it. - X201 23:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And seeing as Hong Kong had been handed back to China by it's release, they've made the unforgivable mistake of missing out Deus Ex. - X201 23:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And Perfect Dark Zero. No wait, that's not unforgivable at all... Miremare 23:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, it's in CFD now. RobJ1981 06:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:Games featuring China]]

message: id software recently renamed their engines with the id tech (x) names in their official site. The engine names were updated in some articles in the wikipedia too. But some editors objected to the renaming of the engines in articles for games released before the renaming:
:"The "id Tech (x)" engines should be referred to by their original names (and not the revisionist "id Tech" names) for historical purposes and for currently-released games (e.g., id Tech 3 --> Quake III Arena engine, id Tech 4 --> Doom 3 engine). However, for Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, "id Tech 4" can be used. Thoughts? Duo02  *dilly-dally shilly-shally** 04:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with Argento3. There is no policy or guideline that says that "official" names are prefered to other names. The naming conventions simply say to use the most common name in the English-speaking world. That's also why the article for the game The Legend of Sword and Fairy 3 is named that instead of the official but seldom-used-in-English title Xianjian Qixia Zhuan San. Kariteh 12:17, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

text: First impression would be to stay with the existing names but they're common, but then, reading through WP:NAME and WP:NCON, it seems to me that there's a better matching of game/engine if you call them by id tech; that is, the existance of Quake II and id Tech 2 is easier to tell its a difference between game and engine and thus less of a naming conflict than Quake II and Quake II engine (the latter sounds less like a separate product that a specific subcomponent of QII).  And check that there are redirects from the old engine names to the new ones, otherwise you'll likely break a good number of infoboxes that use the onld names. --Masem 12:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Just because id want to go retrospectively changing things about certainly doesn't mean we should toe the line. When you're talking about something from a historical perspective (which we are with Quake) you use the name that was used at the time. Just as if we were talking about the Czech Republic prior to 1993 we would refer to it as Czechoslovakia. The current name has no bearing on historical usage and vice versa. Still, I don't see any problem with using something like "Quake engine/Id Tech" to make it clear they're the same thing - also, explain about these changes on the engine's page. Miremare 14:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you should go with id tech, and always link to the engine's page. On the engine page, make sure to explain which game it was used in originally, and also to say what it was called previously. (ie, The id tech 2 engine is the engine used in Quake 2. It was previously called the Q2 engine until [DATE].) Ong elvin 04:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. There is no basis to use id tech names. The guidelines clearly states to use the most common names, and there is no obvious reason to bypass this guideline. The old names are the most commonly used names. Kariteh 12:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  id tech (x) names or old names? 

message: At Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources, there is a proposed guideline on sources in articles in the scope of WP:VG. Your edits and comments are appreciated. User:Krator (t c) 15:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Discuss major issues at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources. Axem Titanium 16:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed Sources Guideline

message: An interesting dilemma here...I tried to remove some of the blue links, and the edit was blocked by the mediawiki spam filter.  Anyone else get this? Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O) 01:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, it had a blacklisted url in there. Must have become blacklisted after it was added to the page. Miremare 02:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Requests]] 

message: I'm trying to move Pokémon Diamond and Pearl (video games) back to Pokémon Diamond and Pearl, per the mover allowing anyone to move it back if they object. I chose to [try to] move it back, as the one most well-known usage of the phrase is the video game. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, now done. --Oscarthecat 06:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could an administrator fix up something? 

message: Could a good coupl' chaps look atGolden Sun? I nom'd it for FAC a while back, but have only gotten comments from three people. David Fuchs (talk) 23:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Supported, but with some suggestions for improvement. Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O) 11:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avast! [[WP:FAC]] nom on [[Golden Sun]] 

message: I can't find the actual wikiproject page, if there even is one, so:
I'm cleaning up the viruses page, since it was a badly organized mish-mash of confusing and contradicting info, but the problem is that, well, I've never actually played the games. The most I've done is seen a flash movie about Code Veronica, and seen the scene with the first zombie in the original Resident Evil while at a friend's house. I would extremely appreciate some help from someone who knows the series, as while I'm sure I've done some good in cleaning up the article, I'm also certain that the chronology I've written isn't correct.
Thank you for your time, and any help you can give me.KrytenKoro 04:21, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I could also use help with sourcing, seeing as I have nearly no ability to provide them.KrytenKoro 04:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This sounds like cruft to me...--SeizureDog 04:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems like a bit of cruft to me as well. Game plot shouldn't be into this much detail on Wikipedia. I think an AFD and transwiki is needed. I would bet there is a Resident Evil wiki, but I don't have the link. Here is the article (if people want to take a look): Fictional Viruses in the Resident Evil Series. RobJ1981 04:19, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is the link to Resident Evil Wikia:  --Mika1h 22:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resident Evil viruses 

message: There's a mini edit war going that has been going on this article - perhaps a deletion or merger is in order? - Jtalledo
:Not again? - X201 17:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the same edits are happening - someone reverts and then proceeds to vandalize some of the articles I've created. I'm sick and tired of dealing with this and I wouldn't mind if the article was deleted outright. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Rival Turf]] 

message: Can someone help me keep on eye on this? A user keeps re-adding the cars list, which is listcruft. I've explained to him: the general consensus is to not list them, but he refuses to listen. RobJ1981 18:56, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like a protection would be justified. --MrStalker talk 17:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Gran Turismo 5 Prologue]]

message: We should start a task force on the simulation company Maxis. It will include SimCity, The Sims, Spore and other games, biographies, and companies.
Support as nominator — JuWiki (Talk <> Resources) 23:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Maxis task force

message: I came across this today, and I was wondering if anyone could help with it?  I don't know the series very well. It certainly needs a better formatting. My choice would be: sort it by game. Perhaps a table could be used as well. RobJ1981 08:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly needs a better name in any case. --SeizureDog 08:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[List of Megami Tensei Monsters, Bosses, and Creatures]]

message: I would like to argue that the passive nature of Quarter Horse, even in the realm of limited decision laser games, precludes it from being described as the first video laser game.  Therefore, it should not be compared with Astron Belt or Dragon's Lair and usurp those games as being the first developed and commercially released laser games, respectively.  The Astron Belt article should be edited to reflect that, I think.  Also, if the existence of Quarter Horse is the reason that Dragon's Lair is first described on Wikipedia as "one" of the first video laser disc games, instead of the first commercially released video laser disc game, then the Dragon's Lair article should be edited to reflect a drop in Quarter Horse's claim to that title as well.  With Quarter Horse, you merely place bets, and have no influence in the outcome of the races.  It's really more a betting laser game, than an arcade video game and the even minimal player interactivity that that label implies.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.234.11 (talk) 19:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:OR and WP:RS, in case you didn't know. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 19:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Astron Belt and Quarter Horse 

message: Having written the original WOG article wich got deleted by voting, I have to ask is there any point writing it again? Arsestar 14:28, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the article was written twice by (I presume) two different people under two different article titles (Heroes of Might and Magic 3½: In the Wake of Gods) and I'm fairly certain you're the first to notice. Nifboy 21:57, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heroes 3: WOG 

message: An editor by the name of MagicalHopStep has been undoing my additions to the article, Wild Arms 5 with little or no justification, even when I asked for a discussion of the matter. (see the article's talk page.) What steps should be taken now? -Wilfredo Martinez 04:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Guys, glad you're both keen to expand and improve the article.  But if there's some disagreement over particular points, please just resolve the issue by citing sources, WP:CITE.  No point trying to create an edit war, wikipedia's got enough of them already. --Oscarthecat 14:52, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I looked at WP:NOVSTY and could not find the number 500 anywhere. Where is that statement coming from? Anomie 17:37, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

text: The chances are that his edits were perfectly legitimate. What was removed probably had to go. He probably should have left a note on the talk page, but contact to find the exact reasons for the edits. Ashnard Talk Contribs 18:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I already did all that.  He deleted ALL of the character profiles, the trivia section, and just about the entire article.  People have been working on all of that stuff for months, and he deleted it all without even bothering to try and discuss it first.  He is trying to claim that video game articles should not have that stuff. but I've seen plenty, and I know that's not the case.  It's information.  And Wiki is an encyclopedia of information, isn't it?  Please, someone step in and stop him.  I don't want to get in trouble, but if his edits are left unreverted, it's going to become harder and harder to get back all the information that he's taken.MagicalHopStep 18:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All of TTN's edits were valid, especially the one's that removed superfluous character information. The article in it's original form is full of cruft and it would have been removed by any one of the regulars on this project. It was just a case  of who got to it first. TTN could have explained his/her edits better but apart from that I can't see anything wrong and the article is certainly nearer to the projects ideal for an article after TTN's edits. It can be traumatic having stuff removed from an article that you care about but if you'd come here before TTN's edits and asked for someone to check the article over you'd have been told by the others to remove the same stuff. - X201 18:37, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, but that's completely bogus.  I'm one of the editors of that article, and it was mostly my stuff that got deleted.  I've seen lots of articles just like that.  It's organized, it's informative, and it's how people prefer it.  If he has a problem, he owes it to us who worked on it to discuss it first, instead of just dismissing all our hard work like nothing.24.3.186.152 18:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've really got to agree.  I mean, character profiles are hardly "superfluous.  Nearly all media articles contain them-some even have whole pages dedicated to their characters.  It's necessary information.MagicalHopStep 18:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If the characters are notable enough to have an article, then feel free to create a List of Wild Arms 5 characters in order to incorporate them. As for the rest of the stuff, it should be removed. Trivia should be incorporated into the article (WP:TRIVIA), and the rest of the removed information is extraneous game guide details that should be condensed into a gameplay section. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 19:06, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

text: He is trying to claim that video game articles should not have that stuff. but I've seen plenty -- for the record, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 19:09, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Final Fantasy VII is a featured article, compare it's characters section to the one in Wild Arms 5. The Final Fantasy one is all written in text, it has just enough detail to explain the character with out stepping into geekdom and it even has twenty references in the character section alone. - X201 19:24, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not really seeing your point. The two are not comparable.  Also, myself and the others against the deletions attempted to make a compromise by letting them remove a majority of the sections, but leaving the character and plot sections, but they were unwilling.MagicalHopStep 19:27, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "The two are not comparable." That's the point I'm making. One of the articles obeys the requirements that are needed for a properly written article, the other does not.  - X201 21:41, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically, if you're going to compare Wild Arms 5 to another game article, compare it with an article that is actually considered to be well written - i.e. an FA or GA rated article. --Scottie_theNerd 05:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did.  Which bit of "Final Fantasy VII is a featured article, compare it's characters section to the one in Wild Arms 5" wasn't clear? - X201 08:06, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Asking for advice re: edit war

message: I'm in a bit of a dispute with someone over a controversy section, and would like a second (and third/fourth/fifth/etc.) opinion on the matter. See, one user wants this section there and cites forum posters as his source, while I say that random forum posters are not reliable, and you cannot cite a forum. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, link? Or go to WP:3O. User:Krator (t c) 23:16, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Project Exile (game) - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Yep, the list is like a blurb from the game box or an ad - these things should be written about properly rather than listed. And nuke the "controversy" section as completely non-notable - if these accusations had been made in the press or by a reliable website then it would be worth including, but a forum? Pft. Miremare 00:09, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that I want to avoid getting into an edit war, and the other user does not want to back down. A discussion is occurring right now at the user's talk page -  - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The controversy section is pointless forum mudslinging.  Anyone who actually cares about tarnishing this publisher-less game, or "protecting" square, are idiots.  The game is pretty non-notable and could do with AFD.  This looks like homebrew rubbish. - hahnchen 00:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While the creator is seeking a publisher, it really isn't notable until it comes out yet, so I wouldn't oppose an AfD. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Nominated for deletion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Project Exile (game)‎. hbdragon88 00:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project Exile