Talk:Raymond Burr

message: Hedda Hopper was actor William Hopper's (Paul Drake in the "Perry Mason" series) mother. She was a well known tabloid columnist who was sometimes considered malicious or cruel in who or what she wrote about and/or exposed. She was also known to sometimes adorn flamboyant hats. (ViceFan (talk) 07:46, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Hedda Hopper

message: Christian Nyby was mentioned in this article as attending a memorial service for Raymond Burr on 10/1/1993.  According to other sources, including Wikipedia, Nyby died on 9/17/1993, two weeks prior to the Burr Memorial Service in Pasadena.  Unless he was represented in absentia, I doubt he was present :)
24.99.137.135 00:27, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Christian Nyby

message: It appears that much of Burr's war record was fabricated, especially the part about him being injured in Okinawa.  I will review this and make the appropriate changes shortly.THD3 (talk) 23:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I watched a program on the Biography Channel. They covered this controversy, and claimed that the US Navy appear to have no record of his service and wounding as claimed.85.158.137.195 (talk) 08:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Not so resolved.  Hiding in Plain Sight makes a strong case that his entire Navy record, including the injury, was fabricated.  The National Personnel Records Center has no record of a Raymond Burr serving in any branch of the U.S. military during this period, which is quite odd given that he supposedly was discharged as a lieutenant commander.  I've rewritten the text in the article in order to to convey the doubts about this.  Wasted Time R (talk) 11:09, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: War record

message: Below my statement here is a lot of conjecture and rumors concerning this aspect. But, I have to ask...is this question really that important or that big of a deal? Raymond Burr denied being homosexual during his life, and kept his personal life private. There are tons of rumors of him being gay, but they are just that...RUMORS! Maybe he was homosexual...or maybe he just never wanted marriage or to have a relationship with a woman and/or women--and instead put his full attention to his work. There is some possible evidence that Burr had a gay relationship with a man named Robert Benevides...there is also some possible evidence that he had an affair with actress Natalie Wood, at one point. Burr was also married to at least one woman (if not 2) for a few years, before divorce. Most likely he was probably bi-sexual...but we could go on and on with rumor and innuendos forever. I hate and have no use for rumors and innuendos...they end up "dirtying" the waters in any situation. 
The fact remains that Raymond Burr is no longer living and can no longer state or prove one way or the other. Since he denied being gay during life and kept his life off the screen private...perhaps we all should continue to honor that and let it all "be". At this point does it really matter? This is my opinion, but I think most can agree that Burr was an amazing actor and could captivate you with whatever role he was playing. He also was a great humanitarian and lover of people and children. Many friends and co-workers have stated that he was one of the nicest actors ever. In 1966, when "Perry Mason" went off the air, Raymond Burr was not only the highest paid actor on TV, he was considered one of the nicest and most popular too. I think we should focus on these aspects of Burr's life and stop all the tabloid/smear/rumor type "garbage" about what his supposed sexual orientation and/or private life was like. Despite what is said below here, I don't think we can ever "resolve" this question--and don't really need to. (ViceFan (talk) 09:00, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In 1950's Hollywood, homosexuality was very much frowned upon.  Claiming to be a widower would be a relatively harmless way of asserting heterosexuality, while not having to carry on a pretense of dating, etc.  It is generally acknowledged that he was gay, and it is highly unlikely that everyone who knew him (including his good friend and co-star, Barbara Hale) would lie about him after his death.  Raider Duck 06:46, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I remember seeing an episode of Biography, a TV program produced by the A&E Network in the US, that treated his homosexuality as a fact.  That seems to indicate that it's fairly well-accepted as factual. Accounting4Taste 00:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is the kind of discussion which I find without interest. What counts, it is what this man did, his private life looked at only him. Those which are baited on this question cannot recognize what is important. Gloubik 21:30, 11 October 2007
Much of the article is poorly written, like a press release: I have tried to clean up the English. Rothorpe 23:29, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

text:  Natalie Wood had told a friend that her relationship with Burr had become physical. Finstad's bio of Natalie Wood states this with references.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.95.147.164 (talk) 06:59, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Burr's homosexuality has been well documented in numerous sources.  His former partner, Robert Benevides, to whom Burr left his entire estate, has also spoken of their relationship.  Just because the subject makes you uncomfortable, Lestrade, doesn't justify removing it from the article.  Wikipedia's guidelines regarding sourcing and verifiability are quite clear on this. THD3 (talk) 23:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Robert Benevides, Burr's longtime partner recently was interviewed and explained, in part, that most of Burr's relatives have died off so he's no longer worried about offending them.  Also, for those who would suggest that this issue has no, or little bearing on Burr's life or work I respcetfully suggest you are quite mistaken. We may never know the true impact of keeping ones sexuality or other personal information private but Benevides does state he is writing his own book and that Burr with a publicist had invented past wives and a dead son to gain sympathy and enshrine his leading man status in Hollywood. An article about the book, not Benevides' but the one out now, is Burr, in the closet during TV career, comes to life in new book. Banjeboi 04:41, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Really gay? 

message: After reading this bio, I began trying to edit it into standard English.  When I got to the part about Raymond's mother moving to California, I didn't have a clue what the author meant, so I Googled Raymond Burr and came up with many conflicting versions of his life.  In one, his mother was a single parent the first 10 years of his life; in one Burr began his acting career in Canada in live theater; another mentions 3 marriages and a son that died of leukemia.  I suspect that Mr. Burr invented and re-invented his early life and that this brief bio does it little justice.Ibstubro 20:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All that one finds on Internet is not the truth, it is only the reflection of what believes or thinks somebody. It is necessary to take some and leave some... Gloubik 21:35, 11 October 2007
The comment about William Hopper needs to be revised.  William Hopper was gay, despite two marriages, and this was an open secret in Hollywood. Far from hiding his homosexuality from the cast of Perry Mason, they went to great lengths to protect him.  See "Hiding in Plain Sight" and recent books about Hedda Hopper.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.81.15.122 (talk) 03:22, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomprehensible 

message: after rummaging through the history on this article, i discovered why and how it's gotten so way outta whack and screwed up. on 24 January 2007,  began posting tons of crap, and it's been down-hill ever since. it's my suggestion that we go back, re-boot from that date and try to clean it all up. most, if not all was added without attribution and it is almost completely unintelligible anyway.  who's with me? --emerson7 | Talk 02:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it.  I can't see how it could ever have been good enough for a "Class B" rating from any rater, but stepping back to January will definitely improve it, even though "MISTER Bonobo" is only the most obvious bogus item in that version.  Jim.henderson 10:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A bleeding mess is what this is! 

message: Should mention.  --Daniel C. Boyer 23:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Honorary Doctorate

message: :Image:Raymondburrfl.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Raymondburrfl.jpg

message: If anyone wants to do the heavy lifting of checking copyrights and deciding relevance, here's a pic of his grave.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rcousine (talk • contribs) 20:41, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gravesite photo 

message: At one place the article mentions that Burr died of liver cancer...and at another places it says that he died of kidney cancer. Now, which one of this malign diseases caused his death - unless it was both? --83.250.72.173 (talk) 19:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: His cancer initially touched the colon then was propagated to the kidney. User:Gloubik 16:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cause of Death 

message: Wasn't that Raymond Burr as the bad guy in Rear Window?  I should think that was a major film role and completely out of character.  He was the sort that was the good guy, but was convincing and meancing as the killer Jimmy Stewart was peeping at.  Given the success of that film, his role should be mentioned.  Pamtrek (talk) 01:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Filmology 

message: There is a mistake on the bottom of the page in the external link to the TCM movie database, it took me to Tom Canning instead of Raymond Burr.Franklin Delano Roosevelt (talk) 19:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistake on the bottom section of the page 

message: This article needs to be updated to show that Burr was gay. Numerous articles
appeared today are saying so. See ABC News:  http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=4930725&page=1  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.22.207 (talk) 15:48, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: News articles appearing today say Burr was gay

message: This entry on Raymond Burr's personal life presents "facts" that are all sourced to either heresay or one book, the controversial and unauthorized "biography" called Hiding in Plain Sight.  This book was written well after Burr's death when he can neither confirm nor deny it's accuracy.  This articles' lack of evidence could constitute slander in our legal system.  The editor, Benjiboi, on this discussion page, states matter of factly that Burr "was gay."  This is not a statement that this editor can make unless he has personal knowledge of such, which he most certainly would not have.  Another commenter states that the alleged gay partner of Burr's is writing a book to confirm all this.  Well if that is so then any citing of such must wait until the book is published, if indeed it ever is.
This substitution of editor opinion and sensationalism in place of of professionalism and basic journalistic fact finding are one of Wiki's biggest downfalls.  Wiki will never rise above shady periodical status until facts are treated as facts and opinions as opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.37.67.180 (talk) (contribs)06:25, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The section on Burr's sexuality meets Wikipedia guidelines for verifiability.THD3 (talk) 11:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gay? very poorly sourced 

message: Did he gain US citizenship? Qzm (talk) 00:10, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Raymond Burr a newsreader?  Are you sure you're not thinking of Lorne Greene, who started his career with CBC Radio in his native Ottawa and was national news anchor during World War II.
2601:645:C300:3950:DD17:3F49:C1B4:100D (talk) 04:58, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citizenship 

message: I reworked the personal life section.  I took out a paragraph that read: 
Burr's biographer, Ona L. Hill, wrote that “no one by the name of "Annette Sutherland Burr" was listed as a passenger on the plane”. In fact, only one of Burr's wives, Isabella Ward, can actually be documented. They were married in 1947 and divorced in 1952; reports of the marriage having been annulled are untrue. The other "wives" appear to have never existed (Sutherland was said to be a British actress, yet British Actors' Equity Association has no record of anyone by that name). The same goes for Burr's "son", who is said to have died from an incurable disease sometime in the 1950s. There is no record anywhere of his birth, existence or death.
I was not sure if all the details here were attributed to Hill.  I felt that the whole thing needed to be cited (and I put the "citation needed" tag on those details).  It sounded like a non-neutral rant to me.  I replaced it with a more neutral paragraph that explained the same content.
As I re-wrote the section I took into consideration statements that had been made on this page concerning his sexuality.  It seems to me that, at least to some degree, there is a bit of controversy as to whether or not he was gay.  For that reason, I tried to balance what had been known about him prior to his death with what was claimed about him after his death. The way it reads now it does not say he was either heterosexual or homosexual.  The message actually is that Burr was either a heterosexual man who some people now claim was homosexual or he was a homosexual man who hid that fact from the public during his life time. The reader can decide, because, after all he really took the truth to the grave and either point of view can be sourced by secondary sources.  I hope to continue working on this article and some day have it listed as a "Good Article". Take Care--Ishtar456 (talk) 00:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Did this "Scottish actress Annette Sunderland" exist at all, or was she completely made up? And what of the other alleged wife, Laura Andrina Morgan, the mother of Burr's apparently fictitious son Michael? The article doesn't make it clear. Muzilon (talk) 06:20, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean Sutherland? It seems pretty clear to me, from reading this, that they were all fictitious. I don't have access to the sourcing and I'm not sure the point can be made clearer without branching into OR. Coretheapple (talk) 20:48, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh, yeah, Sutherland. Actually the NY Times obit says the phantom son, Michael, was Annette Sutherland's child, not Laura Morgan's. It can't be easy keeping a bogus family tree straight. I'm currently working on the Wiki article for John Dall, another gay Hollywood actor. He too told journalists that he was divorced, but there seem to be no traces of his alleged ex-wife so far. Muzilon (talk) 21:35, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal life overhaul 

message: I removed this quote because it had no citation. If someone can give it a citation then please return it.
"When I was talking to Dennis Hopper about that," Wood biographer Suzanne Finstad says, "he was saying, I just can't wrap my mind around that one. But you know, I saw them together. They were definitely a couple. Who knows what was going on there?".
Take Care,--Ishtar456 (talk) 00:49, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  source this quote 

message: ...or can it be cited?
the lack of continuity, the lack of Burr and his chemistry with Hale, and the lack of long term familiarity with the new characters saw sharp declines in the ratings until the entire series was concluded.)
--Ishtar456 (talk) 01:04, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that's WP:POV and would definitely require a supporting reference. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:53, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this original research... 

message: *"Try to live your life the way you wish other people would live theirs."
*"Perry Mason is a marvelous show because it has so much to do with peoples' lives and television.  People were buying television sets when Perry Mason first went on, and it all goes back to that nostalgia."
*"I'm a fine guy to be an actor. Can't stand to have my picture taken."
*"I'm too busy to sleep. Actually, my stand-in, Lee Miller, does my sleeping for me."
*On reprising his role as Perry Mason in 1985: "When I sat down at the defense table again, it was as if 25 years had been taken off my life. I don't think there's anything wrong with returning to a character. I played Macbeth when I was 19, and I would do it again. But of course, I wouldn't do it exactly the same way. Similarly, I hope there's been a progression in the way I play Perry Mason."
*On being typecast as Perry Mason: "I find myself resorting to tricks and devices. I do things for the sake of the series that I never before would have done as an actor."
*On people with special needs: "You can imagine what happens with people who are really handicapped and really crippled, that they have to spend hours in wheelchairs. The only time I had any back trouble in my life was from the time I had to spend in a chair. Yet, I was grateful for the opportunity."
*On his brief romance with Natalie Wood: "I was very attracted to her. I think she was to me."
</blockquote>
--Ishtar456 (talk) 23:23, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Raymond Burr quotes

message: As you can tell, I am removing anything that I can not find a citation for and placing it here for discussion.  When I get done adding citations I'm going to nominate this article for GA status.  So if there is anything here that you have contributed that you want kept in the article then please added a citation and put the information back in the article. 
In reprising the role of Ironside, Burr was forced to dye his hair red and change his beard in order not to look too much like Perry Mason.
--Ishtar456 (talk) 00:58, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a source for this? 

message: I really, really tried to find the source of this info.  If you know it, please add it:
In late 1992, Burr was found to have cancer in his left kidney, but he refused to undergo surgery as this would have interfered with the shooting schedule of his final two television movies.
 --Ishtar456 (talk) 13:50, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please provide source for this 

message: Practically the whole thing was at one time a "cut and paste" from a blog http://www.digitaldeliftp.com/DigitalDeliToo/dd2jb-Pat-Novak-for-Hire.htmllog. I might just give up!--Ishtar456 (talk) 14:30, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  You know what is wrong with this article? 

message: Excellent work on this. However, you;ll need to add a full filmography using a proper table. If it is too big for the article then you can create a Raymond Burr filmography. See Clint Eastwood filmography for example.  Dr. Blofeld      White cat  12:59, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: augh, I hate making tables, but thanks for the tip.--Ishtar456 (talk) 19:51, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article

message: Hi, I recently added a section to the filmography for the Perry Mason movies. I was afraid to list them all en masse, as that section is officially a 'Selected' filmography, so I think it may be fine as it is, though perhaps some term tweaking of my additions would be appropriate. Any ideas? kiranerys(u,c) 22:14, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perry Mason television movies (1985-1993) 

message: Maybe I'm misremembering, but I seem to recall a newspaper story from my teenage years (mid-60s) where Burr's lack of and wife and kids was attributed to losing them in a house fire.  I swallowed that hook, line and sinker; just as most Australians believed that Merle Oberon was one of us, because we were told so and had no reason to disbelieve the fantasy.  But I see no reference to any supposed house fire in Burr's article or online.  Who am I confusing him with?  --  Jack of Oz [your turn] 22:29, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Lost wife and kids in a house fire?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Burr was born in Canada but this article is in the WP category "Male Actors From San Francisco". He may have died in the San Francisco Bay area, but he wasn't technically "from" there, was he? Muzilon (talk) 21:58, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category - Male actors from San Francisco?? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I am replacing a description of his voice in the "Physical Characteristics" section, which was removed.  An actor's vocal quality is one of his most important physical characteristics!  HandsomeMrToad (talk) 05:01, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  An actor's voice is an important physical characteristic 

message: The note in Physical Characteristics "A character in a 1989 short story refers to Burr as "grossly overweight" in Ironside." is spurious and was removed. The point about Mason's weight was already established The short story and author, Cheroff, while published, are not of any literary or pop cultural prominence, and its inclusion is more body-shaming than an informative editorial contribution. User:TheLoneContributer (talk) 013:03, 03 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spurious Note in physical characteristic 

message: The text goes on and on about his sexuality in several different places. Should be consolidated to 2-3 short sentences in one place, not three. His gayness,  though I'm sure sensationally fascinating to some, is not a main feature of his life story. The way the article reads now, we might was well have this way up top in the lead: 
Raymond Burr was a famous closeted gay actor who never came out but we knew, oh yes, we knew, born ... etc. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:04, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree wholeheartedly with this removal and lament its reinstatement. The IP nailed it and the reinstater failed it. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 09:54, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Way too gay?

message: In this section, it's saying that he refused to go on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. While that may be something he said, he did in fact go on the show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us-udbc0RSQ 2600:1700:BC01:9B0:544F:E012:2320:EFE4 (talk) 20:58, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Physical Characteristics