Talk:Knights Templar/Archive 1

message: Why is this here?  I've never heard it suggested specifically that this was the meaning of the kiss on the base of the spine.  Certainly everyone from Philip the Fair on claimed it was evidence of homosexuality, but not that it was specifically a sexual rather than symbolic practice.  I'm removing the link, as I think it's misleading, but if anyone has anything to say about the link, I'd be grateful for the explanation.
Zabieru 03:44, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Link to analingus

message: I moved this link from the article as it seems unconnected to what the article is about. Angela
*Grand Encampment of Knights Templar of the United States of America (the modern Templar organization, which may or may not have a connection with the original order)
:I have protected the page, please try to use this talkpage to sort things out. A revert war helps no-one. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogostick 02:21, Nov 16, 2003 (UTC)
The Grand Encampment is somewhat of a sticky subject; not only are they named for the early Knights Templar organization, but I believe it has been posited that they actually descend from that organization.  Nevertheless, I think the modern organization is notable enough that it rates its own article on the 'pedia separate from this one.  Even if this is decided against, and the modern organization's information is incorporated into this article, I think we should wait with this link until that happens, because as of yet the link would be the only mention of the modern organization in the whole article, adding confusion. - Hephaestos 02:52, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved

message: I corrected some of the information regarding Masonic ties to the Knights Templar.  The section referenced below was totally rewritten to be more expansive:
----
Some Freemasons believe they were descended from Templars who fled to Scotland and that the group really did have heretical beliefs. There is a Masonic Knights Templar organization which in America and other countries is part of the York Rite. In most jurisdictions it is open only to those who profess a belief in the Christian religion. It is unknown whether or not it has historical connections with the original Knights Templar.
----
I essentially rewrote the section to put the full influence of the Tempars in Masonry into context and correct some statements that were a bit off (claims of descendency).
I also added a new section regarding DeMolay and the reference to the Templars in the novel, The Da Vinci Code.
Wgfinley 02:02, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern Orders & Claims of Descent Section 

message: I'm a wikipedia contributor in the italian language ad I want to suggest you that both in italian and french there is a list a page devoted to list the places where Templars had one of their monastry or church:it:Sedi templari and fr:Liste des commanderies de Templiers.  It would be interesting to have something similar for english speaking lands.--82.51.164.166 18:12, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion for a new page

message: Why isn't William de Beaujeu cited as Guillaume de Beaujeu? If one first is to translate names into more English-sounding, why not translate Jacques de Molay into Jack of Molay?
:I don't know if there is rule about this but, as far as I know, some of these historical characters are better known in the English world by their French names. Loremaster 16:24, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Then why is Guillaume cited as William? The person who made the list of Templar Grand Masters should keep to the French (or original, as some of the Masters were not French) version of the names, not putting in English versions where he or she seems it fitting.cun 21:23, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The list should consist of the real names of the grand masters rather than their translations. Can you work on this? Loremaster 23:41, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I have tried as best as I could. cun 08:43, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Names

message: (beginning of paragraph) While the only requirement to join Scottish Rite is to be a Mason in good standing, DeMolay does require its members to profess a belief in a 'Supreme Being' as a part of its ritual.  There are DeMolays from a wide variety of both monotheistic and polytheistic faiths.
Another branch of Masonry however, York Rite, does require its members to be of Christian faith.  Among the three branches of the York Rite is  The Commandery of Knights Templar.  (rest of paragraph)
: These aren't quite correct.  Masons in Blue Lodge must profess a belief in a Supreme Being, and since all members of York Rite and Scottish Rite (plus others) must be Master Masons this becomes a de facto requirement.  Only the Knights Templar (Commandry) level of the York Rite requires members to be Christian, the other York Rite bodies (Chapter and Council/Cryptic) don't.
: Rewrote it to be:
DeMolay, like the regular Masonic (or Blue) Lodge, requires its members to profess a belief in a Supreme Being.  Very broad interpretations of Supreme Being are common allowing DeMolays and Masons to come from a wide variety of both monotheistic and polytheistic faiths.  Most appendant bodies of Freemasonry such as the Scottish Rite, the York Rite (including Chapter and Cryptic or Council), and the Shriners require membership in a Blue Lodge, so de facto they require such a belief in a Supreme Being.
The Commandery of Knights Templar is the third major branch of the York Rite and open only to Christians. (rest of paragraph)
: But I'm not sure how relevant the various Masonic organizations' requirements about religous beliefs are to an article on the Knights Templar.  Wouldn't this be a good candidate for moving to the pages for the appropriate organizations instead? Scott 13:30, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Masonic Belief Requirements (are they relevant?) 

message: It is said that an "Order of Sion" was found at the same time with
Knights Templars in Holy Land.
Is it true ?
User:Siyac 11:17, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No...but we do have an article about that, Priory of Sion. Adam Bishop 15:34, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Yes. From PRIORY OF SION: THE FACTS, THE THEORIES, THE MYSTERY at http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/poseur3.html: there was indeed an Order of Sion based on Mt. Sion, and according to a papal bull of the 12th century, it had monasteries and abbeys elsewhere in Palestine (in particular, Mount Carmel), in southern Italy (Calabria), and in France. There is little in the official histories linking Godfroi to this order, but he is said to have founded the Order of the Holy Sepulchre, whose relationships to these other orders (the Temple and Sion) are unclear. And the official histories do not indicate any overlap between these monks and the soldier-monks of the Knights Templar. The Order seems to have occupied its "mother" abbey, Notre Dame de Sion/St. Mary of Mt. Zion, built on the foundations of the original apostolic Cenacle or Coelaneum, up until around 1291 or so, when like many Crusader holdings, it was overwhelmed by the Moslem onslaught. It actually was in the hands of the Franciscans for several more centuries, until it finally was lost to Christian ownership and was converted to a mosque. Loremaster 17:05, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hmmmmm......that's pretty POV.  I would be inclined to side with Adam Bishop in that the NPOV view under Priory of Sion is much more historically verifiable and much more reliable.DonaNobisPacem 07:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  A question 

message: deleted text 
Capitolo Otto is among the secret societies that traces a link to the Knights Templar. The society, which recruits from the Yale University campus (among other recruiting mediums), puts an emphasis on internationalism and the merger of East and West, giving central importance to the cipher 1071. Highly secretive, the order has links to European secret societies.
This points to a deleted page, it seems to be a hoax.  Paul, in Saudi 04:22, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Capitolo Otto