Talk:Prince William, Duke of Cumberland

message: Fort William is not named after Cumberland but William of Orange.
I am familiar with the expression 'Butcher Cumberland' but have never come across 'The Butcher of Cumberland.'
Rcpaterson 00:54, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The fort itself was named after William of Orange, and the settlement growing around it was named Maryburgh after his wife.  As the settlement grew, it was renamed Fort William, after the butcher.  "The Butcher of Cumberland" is how I, since childhood, have always known the butcher, having grown up in Lochaber. Lianachan (talk) 11:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've heard "the Butcher of Culloden", which makes more obvious sense. —Tamfang (talk) 04:54, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fort William and Butcher Cumberland 

message: I've put a contradict banner on this page.  Did Cumberland live at Cumberland Lodge, or did he live in London?
Cumberland Lodge is not in London, but in Windsor Great Park, which isn't far from the western edge of current London, but well out of it in the 18th century.
--Publunch 22:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where did this guy live? 

message: I removed the remark that the Jacobites intended to fight a guerilla war after the battle at Culloden because there is no reference for it. In "The '45: Bonnie Prince Charlie and the Untold Story of the Jacobite Rising" by Christopher Duffy 
the author explicitly stated that Prince Charles had no interest in fighting a guerilla war. Scafloc (talk) 13:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Guerilla war

message: The article in general, and the "Butcher" section in particular, are curiously devoid of any mention of the attrocities carried out by this man in the Scottish Highlands - the source, in fact, of this nickname.  That doesn't seem very balanced or fair.  Would anybody care to put a bit of Highland perspective into it?  It's currently all English and lowland Scots.... Lianachan (talk) 21:06, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh. I came here because of the quotation I added here. I figure the language about his Highland activities is taken from the 1911 EB, with only minor modifications. -- llywrch (talk) 06:39, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added the origin of the nickname.  The fact that the Butcher is one of the most hated figures in all of Highland history is surely worth mentioning on the page.  It's cerainly mentioned everywhere else you read about him.Lianachan (talk) 09:44, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Everywhere else, except in serious academic works of the sought that Wikipedia aims & ought to reflect.  'Attrocities' is highly POV & should be avoided.  Even the website linked to doesn't specify that 'Butcher' was the highlanders' nickname for His Royal Highness - Walpole's letters, which are in the public domain & online, make it clear that the taunt was first made at a London dinner party.80.229.9.98 (talk) 01:42, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please provide sources for this statement, please, anonymous editor. While wars in prior centuries often included non-combatants as targets for destruction -- many of whom not only were indifferent towards either side --  savaging them was never considered as a good thing. Either before -- or after -- Lianchan's edit there has been no details of what Cumberland did to the Highlanders; someone not as informed about Scots history as I would be unable to tell whether he killed & burned his way across Scotland, or simply was a social buffoon & jerk much like a recent US president. The EB1911 text is nothing but whitewash here. -- llywrch (talk) 05:33, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

text: I assume you didn't spot sentence For his activities at Culloden and afterwards, Prince William Augustus came to be known in the Highlands as "Butcher Cumberland" then.  I am only aware of one "serious academic work" whch refutes what the Butcher did in the Highlands, an extremely biased book by Jonathan Oates which nobody I know takes seriously.  Before I made that change to the page, there was absolutely no indication whatsoever that the Butcher was even mildly disliked in the Highlands. Only the worst kind of idiot, or pro-Butcher apologist, could claim that was fair or balanced. Lianachan (talk) 10:06, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Lianchan, I removed the second link to that paragraph; it was to a mirror of this Wikipedia article. (It was an older draft of this page, which is probably why you didn't realize this.) Still, this conflict could be resolved with a little research & providing actual examples of the atrocities. If atrocities can be documented, then the reason why he was later called "Butcher Cumberland" is apparent & NPOV. -- llywrch (talk) 16:36, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There are several potential references.  I fully expect all mention of his actions to be removed from the article anyway.  But, for the record, two examples are The Butcher: The Duke of Cumberland and the Suppression of the Forty-Five by W.A. Speck, Caernarfon, 1995; and Last of the Free: A Millennial History of the Highlands & Islands of Scotland by J. Hunter, Mainstream Publishing, 1999. Lianachan (talk) 17:09, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Fair dos. Lack of citations apart I'm quite happy with that. Ben MacDui 19:02, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Butcher Cumberland 

message: Why oh why has this article changed from William Augustus, Duke of Cumberland (correct) to Prince William, Duke of Cumberland (incorrect)? Can someone sort it out please?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.219.16 (talk) 18:55, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Name change

message: In the section War of the Austrian Succession, there was the claim:
:In December 1742, he became a Major-General, and, the following year, he first saw active service in Persia.
So far as I can determine, Britain had no interests in Persia until c. 1801 (see, e.g., Treaty of Gulistan, Gore Ouseley) and the first British operations there were in 1856. There might have been some minor adventures there earlier, but it seems unlikely the prince would have been involved in anything like that. Further, other sources suggest that Prince William actually first saw military service in Germany.
Upon investigating the history of the article, it turned out that this change was made more than 4 years ago, in July 2006! The change was made by an anonymous account (82.47.49.3) who made 3 edits to this article, and no others. The other two edits were:
* https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Prince_William,_Duke_of_Cumberland&diff=61860622&oldid=61860460
* https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Prince_William,_Duke_of_Cumberland&diff=61860460&oldid=61860212
both of which are very obvious vandalism. It seems pretty clear that the Persia change was also vandalism, but rather more subtle.
It seems a little disappointing, for the integrity of Wikipedia, that we can spend 4 years arguing over the prince's reputation in Scotland, and let something like this slip. -- 202.63.39.58 (talk) 10:37, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persia, for heaven's sake !!! 

message: Cumberland sauce is also named after him. It was invented in Hanover, Germany.Korhomme (talk) 06:03, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article only had 3 lines about the post-Culloden atrocities carried out by Cumberland and his men. Given that this was where he got his nickname, a few more details should surely be included. I'm not talking about on the battlefield, where killing defeated rebels was standard practice in Europe at the time, but the Highland 'pacification' that came after and was not standard practice. Most important I think, are some numbers - how many people were killed, and how many were arrested or displaced. Are we talking a few thousand, a few tens of thousand, or what? LastDodo (talk) 13:06, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post Culloden Atrocities - more details needed 

message: "immensely popular throughout parts of Britain"
I couldn't work out to which of the various discussions of Cumberland's reputation post-Culloden I might attach this comment. A small point but this statement from the introductory paragraph is surely contradictory. I would suggest Cumberland could be popular either  throughout Britain or in parts of Britain (however thoroughly), but not both. I suspect the latter. I recommend excising 'throughout' as misleading.
JF42 (talk) 06:00, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oxymoron