Talk:List of Murder, She Wrote episodes

message: All of the episodes of this series fail the notability guidelines for television episodes. The way for these articles to be improved is through the inclusion of real-world information from reliable sources to assert notability. That is unlikely to happen, and these only have certain bad aspects (though all may not apply) like containing overly long or one sentence plot summaries, trivia, and quotes. Per that, they need to be a small part of this list. 
If there are no objections, these will be redirected soon. Otherwise, discussion will take place here. Please remember that this is not a vote. If you like the information, that's fine and dandy, but your opinion doesn't really count towards anything. The only opinions that do count are ones that that lean towards the inclusion of real world information. TTN 00:20, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the individual episode pages should be merged into the list by having very brief summaries of each episode. But, I think the pages for the pilot episode and the TV movies should be kept. Dell9300 22:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Episode notability

message: I am opening moderated discussion at the dispute resolution noticeboard.  Please direct your comments to DRN for the time being.  Robert McClenon (talk) 03:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Due to the lack of discussion at the dispute resolution noticeboard, I will be closing the discussion there.  Instead, the question of whether to identify the murderer in the summary list for each episode of this show, a Request for Comments will be posted.  Robert McClenon (talk) 00:18, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Moderated Discussion

message: .... Following is the entire RfC discussion.Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:51, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: * I'm going to ping  since they have previously contributed on this topic. Of course, new opinions from editors are welcome. Z1720 (talk) 21:48, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hey, I got your ping. I don't really favor making any drastic changes. If @User:Z1720's suggestions are taken up won't they require a lot of rewriting (as the episodes as the list currently contain only the barest plot info)? Quis separabit? 11:55, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi Quis separabit, I think there is always room to improve an article. My suggestion would mean we take out the bolded "Murderer" line in each episode and incorporate that information in the last sentence of the episode synopsis. It will take some work but not necessarily change a lot in each synopsis. Z1720 (talk) 01:56, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  @User:Z1720: "I think there is always room to improve an article" -- certainly so. But are you going to be doing the rewriting to ensure consistency? Quis separabit? 15:39, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  If there is consensus on a solution on this talk page, I am more than happy to do the rewriting. Z1720 (talk) 16:30, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

text: * Hi Crazyseiko. Wikipedia is not finished and this article is on its way to improving. I think there is a commitment from some editors, including yourself, to improve the article and I'm excited to see that enthusiasm. I think it's important that all users assume good faith when discussing the page and avoid statements like that users don't care. I do agree with you that we need to get references for this page. Do you know where we could find these references? What else should we focus our attention on? Z1720 (talk) 01:45, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: * Its nice to see other people finally noticing the lack of references for this page. Ref,   The only places I know of that could have references for Episode titles and plot would be the following: 
* http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086765/episodes
* http://epguides.com/MurderSheWrote/
* http://www.angelalansbury.net/msw/epguide.html
* http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mhbk/episodes/guide
None of these have who the "Murderer" is.--Crazyseiko (talk) 08:24, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  This diff shows how difficult a rewrite will be; some stuff will not make sense; @Arderich is trying his best but what he means to say is  impossible to discern without having more info. Quis separabit? 16:54, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm getting pretty fed up with the can't do anything attitude, when it comes to this page. This reason for not making changes its hitting rock bottom. Its not brain surgery, and its not that hard to explain the basic outline of a plot.... If that is the case the most of the plot information should just be taken out!  --Crazyseiko (talk) 18:21, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  While the editing process might be difficult, and might take a long time, I am willing to go through the whole thing myself and fix it up. As Wikipedia is not finished please do not expect one edit to fix all the problems in the article. Also, please do not expect that the "fixed" version be complete in a short time because there are also real life obligations that will delay the process for all editors. Editors should join in adding sources, copyediting or fixing another episode synopsis in the approved template. I will soon post a new comment with the suggested template for the changes. See my comment below. Z1720 (talk) 21:05, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would happily help out and fix up this page, including adding in more refs etc but we need to get the foundation sorted before you add in more bricks. ( this also included the fact if the page has revised format for details, there no point adding stuff in which may get taken back out.)  Over the past six years I'll never seen one edit solve all the problems for one page, but I do believe if we pull up our socks and stop chasing our tails, we will sort out this page before we reach August ;) .  --Crazyseiko (talk) 21:28, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

text:  I suggest you/we start making changes to this page. Its very clear most people either don't care or can't come up with any reasonable rebuttal to you good suggestion or my points about the issues on the page which your good idea will reslove. --Crazyseiko (talk) 16:57, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi everyone, I am going on vacation in a couple of days, but when I return next week I will begin the split option. If you disagree with this decision, please comment below and we can discuss this. Z1720 (talk) 00:44, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC:  Should each episode identify the murderer? 

message: *YES: There are no spoilers on Wikipedia. Summaries of plays, dramas,  films, etc., all indicate how the story/stories ends/end. Are they all going to be rewritten? Murder She Wrote ended its run more than two decades ago, and this is not breaking news. Quis separabit? 01:36, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: *Comment I agree that the murderer should be included in the synopsis because WP:Spoiler says, "It is not acceptable to delete information from an article because you think it spoils the plot." However, I disagree that after each episode synopsis there is a bolded "Murderer" section. I could not find similar featured lists, but Law & Order: Criminal Intent (season 1) is a WP:GOODARTICLE that features a crime and a suspect. I suggest that the List of Murder, She Wrote page be formatted similarly to the L&O:CI list, where the murderer is revealed in the last sentence of the synopsis without any bolded text (and the synopsis includes how the audience discovered who the murderer is.) Z1720 (talk) 03:24, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: * I'm going to ping  since they have previously contributed on this topic. Of course, new opinions from editors are welcome. Z1720 (talk) 21:48, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hey, I got your ping. I don't really favor making any drastic changes. If @User:Z1720's suggestions are taken up won't they require a lot of rewriting (as the episodes as the list currently contain only the barest plot info)? Quis separabit? 11:55, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi Quis separabit, I think there is always room to improve an article. My suggestion would mean we take out the bolded "Murderer" line in each episode and incorporate that information in the last sentence of the episode synopsis. It will take some work but not necessarily change a lot in each synopsis. Z1720 (talk) 01:56, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  @User:Z1720: "I think there is always room to improve an article" -- certainly so. But are you going to be doing the rewriting to ensure consistency? Quis separabit? 15:39, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  If there is consensus on a solution on this talk page, I am more than happy to do the rewriting. Z1720 (talk) 16:30, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

text: * Hi Crazyseiko. Wikipedia is not finished and this article is on its way to improving. I think there is a commitment from some editors, including yourself, to improve the article and I'm excited to see that enthusiasm. I think it's important that all users assume good faith when discussing the page and avoid statements like that users don't care. I do agree with you that we need to get references for this page. Do you know where we could find these references? What else should we focus our attention on? Z1720 (talk) 01:45, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: * Its nice to see other people finally noticing the lack of references for this page. Ref,   The only places I know of that could have references for Episode titles and plot would be the following: 
* http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086765/episodes
* http://epguides.com/MurderSheWrote/
* http://www.angelalansbury.net/msw/epguide.html
* http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mhbk/episodes/guide
None of these have who the "Murderer" is.--Crazyseiko (talk) 08:24, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  This diff shows how difficult a rewrite will be; some stuff will not make sense; @Arderich is trying his best but what he means to say is  impossible to discern without having more info. Quis separabit? 16:54, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm getting pretty fed up with the can't do anything attitude, when it comes to this page. This reason for not making changes its hitting rock bottom. Its not brain surgery, and its not that hard to explain the basic outline of a plot.... If that is the case the most of the plot information should just be taken out!  --Crazyseiko (talk) 18:21, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  While the editing process might be difficult, and might take a long time, I am willing to go through the whole thing myself and fix it up. As Wikipedia is not finished please do not expect one edit to fix all the problems in the article. Also, please do not expect that the "fixed" version be complete in a short time because there are also real life obligations that will delay the process for all editors. Editors should join in adding sources, copyediting or fixing another episode synopsis in the approved template. I will soon post a new comment with the suggested template for the changes. See my comment below. Z1720 (talk) 21:05, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would happily help out and fix up this page, including adding in more refs etc but we need to get the foundation sorted before you add in more bricks. ( this also included the fact if the page has revised format for details, there no point adding stuff in which may get taken back out.)  Over the past six years I'll never seen one edit solve all the problems for one page, but I do believe if we pull up our socks and stop chasing our tails, we will sort out this page before we reach August ;) .  --Crazyseiko (talk) 21:28, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

text:  I suggest you/we start making changes to this page. Its very clear most people either don't care or can't come up with any reasonable rebuttal to you good suggestion or my points about the issues on the page which your good idea will reslove. --Crazyseiko (talk) 16:57, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi everyone, I am going on vacation in a couple of days, but when I return next week I will begin the split option. If you disagree with this decision, please comment below and we can discuss this. Z1720 (talk) 00:44, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Threaded Discussion

message: As said, the there are some outstanding issues which need to be resloved, which I hope will also sort out the left of refs and also how its formatted. --Crazyseiko (talk) 23:27, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is a complete joke, nothing has been sorted out with this. Page format is a disgrace, and needs changing, yet nothing has? WHY not? --Crazyseiko (talk) 15:55, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to resolve the issues from the RFC?  

message: Prior content in this  duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://web.archive.org/web/20060618063223/http://www.epguides.com/MurderSheWrote/season1.shtml (archived 18 June 2006). Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:23, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://web.archive.org/web/20120208114603/http://www.imdb.com:80/title/tt0653526, https://web.archive.org/web/20151105154852/http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087757/ and the like. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:54, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I am curious as to what you are referring the copyright too? Because of the disruption I can't see what has been copyvio. I had a look and I don't see anything that's been copied directly from IDMB. Govvy (talk) 22:08, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  The episode summaries were copied from Imdb. That is a copyvio....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:24, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't see copyvio what so ever for season one when I looked. I think this is blown out of proportion. Govvy (talk) 12:11, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: , your ping didn't work because you didn't sign in the same edit. If you look at the links in my initial post in this section you will see archived versions of two IMDb pages that were copied verbatim into our page. You can't see them in the article history because they have been hidden. I also found other copyvio from similar IMDb pages, as did . There's no doubt about this, and no exaggeration – our copyright rules are a WP:Policy with legal considerations, and we need to make sure we stick to them. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:45, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I know all about copyright, I just disagree with your conclusion, I found this article helpful before you destroyed it all, now it's just ruined. Govvy (talk) 18:25, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: Change title of episode 2-10 from "Sticks & Stones" to "Sticks and Stones".
The title is shown on-screen with the word "and" rather than an ampersand.  Title appears 1:43 into the episode (as viewed on the Universal Studios Home Entertainment DVD). 2601:45:400:3652:882B:8DC9:56E6:59B5 (talk) 01:51, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Done ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 02:46, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2020 

message: Change episode 4-14 title from "Curse of the Daanau" to "Curse of the Daanav".  
The last letter is a "v" as in Victor, not a "u" as in Uniform.  Title is displayed on-screen at 1:22 in (as viewed on the Universal DVD).  Comparing the "v" in "Daanav" to the "u" in "Curse" confirms they are different characters.  The pronunciation of the word by the actors also confirms the last letter is a "v". 2601:45:400:3652:9D52:564C:DFA6:53BC (talk) 15:14, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Done PlanetJuice (talk • contribs) 22:48, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2020 (2)