Talk:Maria Clementina Sobieska

message: Re: the spelling. Google disagrees with you. No hits for "Maria Klementina Sobieski" but some for "Maria Clementina Sobieski". Evercat 17:40 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
When I was in my Jacobite phase some 20 years ago, most of the references to her that I remember reading used the spelling "Clementina Sobieska". ("Maria" sometimes, but not always, preceded the name "Clementina".) The feminine form of a Polish surname in English-language references is also used for Maria Klementyna Sobieska's contemporary, Maria Leszczynska. (Sorry, Polish characters don't appear on my computer.)  — Diamantina 03:56, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I think it quite wrong to say that Maria suffered from anorexia.  I dare say some of the symptoms of this condition have existed through time, but as a clinical definition it belongs to the modern age.
Rcpaterson 00:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maria's anorexia? 

message: Here, Maria Klementyna is said to have died on January 18, whereas the Jakub Ludwik Sobieski article says she died on January 24. Which one should it be? Anders Fröjmark 14:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the proposal was move to Clementina Sobieski. This one was a bit difficult to close. However, I have to discount Molobo's oppose for not giving a reason. This was compounded because there was even less consensus on whether to preface the name "Maria" or not (so this may be something to reconsider in the future). However, the use of English usage over Polish was more clear (and supported by the MoS).-Andrew c [talk] 16:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of death 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
* Support as nominator. Noel S McFerran 02:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This lady is not obscure at all; there are three books written about her in English.  She was the wife of the Jacobite claimant to the English throne and was regarded as Queen of Great Britain even by the pope. Noel S McFerran 13:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

text: *Comment Why? I find Noel's reasoning to be sound, after all, I imagine he knows quite a bit about this topic. Charles 17:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I personally usually refer to this lady as "Maria Clementina" (but then I also think that she was Queen of Great Britain).  But I distinguish between my personal preference and what can be established from the scholarly publication record. "Clementina" beats "Maria Clementina" by 401 to 284 (or if we include the Sobieska hits by 626 to 390).  That is not an overwhelming majority, and perhaps a case could be made that "Maria Clementina" is "more correct"; I hesitate to do this since claiming to be "more correct" is a terribly slippiery slope which allows anyone to be his own pope. Having said all that, I would have no objection to "Maria Clementina Sobieski". Noel S McFerran 01:34, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

text: *Comment How so? What is wrong with the proposed title? Charles 22:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Polish British is on my watchlist. Today, I learned that Saint Margaret of Scotland has been added to the list of "British Poles". That's news to me. Which led to the question of Bonnie Prince Charlie being on that list too, which led me here to this talk page. Here on English Wikipedia, Maria Clementina Sobieski, is called a Polish noblewoman. Even though her father was half Polish and half French, her mother, German on both sides. So how does that make her a Polish noblewoman? But following this thread further on Polish Wikipedia we are told there that she was born in Macerata, Italy. On English Wikipedia we are told she was born in Poland. Somebody's got to know where she was born. All the other Wikipedia language encyclopedia articles seem to be following suit with Ohlau, today Poland (since 1945), but not Poland in 1701. Btw, Polish WP gives her date of birth as July 17, 1701. English WP, July 18, 1702. But what's a day or a year anyway? It's only an encyclopedia. Could all the other articles be using Ohlau because they are simply  copying off of the English article? Hope not. So then here's the conundrum. Is Maria Klementyna Sobieska aka Clementina Sobieski a Polish noblewoman? Was she born in Poland or Italy, or neither? Was she born in 1701 or 1702? On July 17th or July 18th? Are we putting together a factual and objective encyclopedia? Does it matter? Dr. Dan (talk) 03:38, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: She was a Polish noblewoman if she belonged to the Polish nobility, just like Arthur Wellesley is a Spanish and Dutch nobleman even though he is neither Spanish nor Dutch (but British, of course). I can't say anything about the dates. Surtsicna (talk) 20:22, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for responding. My main concern is not a desire to disconnect her from her connections to Poland. It's to eliminate undue weight to the claim. Her connection to other nobility is not mentioned. This issue concerning the dates does have some importance, but the issue of her place of birth is glaring by comparison. If she was some medieval figure obscured by mythology or lack of information, I'd understand the conundrum, but she isn't and the article needs greater accuracy. Dr. Dan (talk) 18:08, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Having had a quick glance at the results of Google Book Search, I've found another option: 17 July 1702. It's none of the dates you've mentioned but the source is 150 years old. What would be the most reliable source? Surtsicna (talk) 18:15, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure if that work is the best option, ..."Thus, on a cold and dark night, which, if it served to secure her safe retreat, was rendered sufficiently miserable by a violent storm of snow and hail, the young and delicate Princess resigned herself into the hands of strangers"...  Both that and "Innspruck" (sic) would certainly get a request for citation on Wikipedia. But it's pleasant reading. This place of birth issue really does bug me though. Dr. Dan (talk) 18:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Conundrum

message: I have added three citatations under "Marriage". I have also removed the "This article does not cite any sources" template, but am not sure if it was appropriate to do this. One of the citations was to a Wordpress page, which I know can be a problem; another was to an audio recording of a lecture. Also, although my citations covered most of the relevant section, they did not include the middle paragraph. For these reasons, I would be grateful if a someone - more experienced in these matters than I am - would review these edits. Thanks in advance. -- Mike Marchmont (talk) 12:47, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Marriage