Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Archive 12

message: I have created SVG versions of the full and short Esperanza logos.  Hopefully they should be as close as possible to their png counterparts. Just thought I'd mention it here, since I know a lot of people include these images in their userpages and such.  Also, I'm unable to swap out the Esperanza-short image on this talk page, because the page is so large (ready for archiving?) and my internet connection has been behaving rather terribly. ~ Booya Bazooka 01:29, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Changed. And great work! Thank you! Misza13 T C 18:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logo conversion to SVG 

message: Just a heads-up, but new user  (aka , aka ) seems to have some sort of problem with Esperanza, judging by this edit. I'm guessing it's a bobbled attempt at a WP:POINT violation, but maybe there's something else going on. --Calton | Talk 04:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Judging by that edit, he is against Esperanza - • The Giant Puffin • 07:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't be that quick to judge. You might try asking him why he put the page up for deletion to see if you can figure out why. He might be confused. He might be upset and acting irrationally. Or he might be "against Esperanza", whatever that means. I think the Esperanza thing to do would be to figure out what the deal is before assuming an "us-vs-him" mentality. - Che Nuevara: Join the Revolution 21:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  does seem to have a problem, he seems to have a conflict with a certain admin . Apparently, he has been accused of sockpuppeting, vandalism, personal attacks and has allegated rouge admin abuse against JzG. Check out his talk page. --Terrancommander 16:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All I'm saying is it might make sense to ask him what he thinks is going on, instead of trying to figure it out going by his edits. - Che Nuevara: Join the Revolution 16:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  has given an answer to that edit on his talk page. --Terrancommander 17:41, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New user with issues?

message: I know everyone else is probably going to think "How the heck does Primate" not know this, but I've been on a very long wikibreak. Would anyone mind telling me what happened to Esperanza and why the charter doesn't match the time line?
Thanks in advance
Primate#101 03:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What exactly are you referring to? I'd be glad to explain things to you, as would others, but your question is a bit vague to me, sorry. Kind regards, --JoanneB 16:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Esperanza--What happened?? 

message: As much as I love to spam talk pages (see my contributions back on May 23/24), I decided to post here rather than sending messages to those who voted for me, for primarily this reason: I know that both those who voted for me and those who didn't were trying to make Esperanza a better place through their votes, and I deeply respect that. For those who voted for me, I thank you, and I hope that I will live up to your expectations. For those who did not, I hope that you will still be happy with my actions. For those who ran or worked on the election staff, I thank you for your dedication to the organization. And finally, for those who abstained from voting for various reasons, including the idea that Esperanza should be run by consensus (another idea I deeply respect), I hope that the new leadership structure will prove to be helpful and effective. Like everyone else, I hope that Esperanza will be refocused with this new structure, and I am very humbled that the community has chosen me to be a part of the leadership. Kind regards to all, EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 19:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Grats :) --Terrancommander 17:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Election thanks

message: :Note: this was originally supposed to be a response to the above thread, but it got too long, so I put it under another subheader. Apologies for the long post
Personally, I think if someone is put off by our rhetoric as being too vague or wishy-washy, the best way to learn what Esperanza is is by looking at our programs. Obviously we hope this list will continue to grow as people come up with more great ideas, but the current programs are a good subset of what we're trying to accomplish here.
*Our Stress Alerts page identifies Wikipedians with various kinds of stress, and encourages our members to help those people, lend them a supportive hand or an open ear, and make them feel appreciated within the project and the community.
*The Esperanza Calendar does a similar task, helping Wikipedians celebrate important dates with one another and feel recognized/supported/appreciated.
*The Barnstar Brigade takes this concept to the next level. People involved in this actively keep an eye out for editors who deserve recognition for their hard work in making this a better encyclopedia. As I've said before, editors who are praised for their hard work are more likely to stay with the project and do more good work in the future (see positive reinforcement).
*The Esperanzan Drive, which strives to take different articles to Featured Article status, hasn't quite taken off yet, but it's a great idea, and will hopefully get more use in the future. Obviously there are a lot of Wikiprojects devoted to improving subsets of articles, and the difference here is that Esperanzan's generally know each other so well that they would likely collaborate well on specific article and make that the best it can be.
*Trading Spaces has moved to a new location, but that program helps users feel good about their userspace, and also keeps people who like to do webpage design a little less bored.
*Admin coaching helps Wikipedians become better editors. It answers questions for them, increases their policy knowledge, and helps some users who really don't know where to start as far as becoming an admin goes. We are helping the encyclopedia by helping to make the next generation of admins more knowledgable and more aware of how important the community is to building the encyclopedia.
*The User Page Award can help boost a Wikipedian's mood by recognizing the impressive layout of their userpage. Some may argue that this isn't helping the encyclopedia, and is more of a webpage design competition. However, I feel that this helps the encyclopedia in (at least) two ways: 1) It keeps the editor happier, which always helps editors become more productive, and 2) these are generally the people who help most of the rest of us design our userpages, so we can spend less time on that, and more time on building the encyclopedia.
*Finally, the Coffee Lounge is a place where we can all go to relax when we're stressed and talk about things other than Wikipedia. Sure there are other places IRL where we can go to do that, but most of us have a lot of good friends on the wiki, and it's always good to have pleasant conversations with those we know. 
So, now that you've read through that long list (it's great that we have so many programs!), I hope you can see what we're trying to accomplish. We're trying to improve the encyclopedia's community, because that in turn decreases stress, increases positive reinforcemt, tends to keep editors happy, productive, and on the project, and provides people a place to go when they need someone to talk to or need to get away from it all for a while. I have no doubt that we make the community a better place to be, and in doing-so help make the encyclopedia better. EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 22:11, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like this; it's very smart. Good thinking and good point, EWS! - Che Nuevara: Join the Revolution 22:32, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bravo!  What really matters is what we do, which, as can be seen, is truly fantastic. -- Natalya 00:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I've always wanted to award you a barnstar for recognizing SO many unrecognized users, Blnguyen.  If you've given them barnstar, there's nothing wrong with telling them exactly what you just told us - that all of their articles are so great, and that they deserve many, many barnstars!  They will probably appreciate it even more than a barnstar.  -- Natalya 02:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: When all else fails, define us by our programs

message: Greetings my friends, Natalya here.  I'm honored to announce that I've been chosen as the new Administrator General of Esperanza!  Over email, the council (Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, Freakofnurture, Titoxd and myself) discussed and chose the Admin General.  I'm really, really excited to be here in this capacity.  As I'm sure all of you know, I love Esperanza, and can't wait to help us continue and improve as the friendly community that we are.  Though it will take myself and the new members of the council a bit of time to ease into our new roles, we will soon begin addressing recent issues.  First looks to be the Esperanza-wide decision on the naming of the council/assembly.  And as discussion continues on how Esperanza is percieved, we will facilitate how that should progress.
Esperanza has had it's share of problems recently, but we've come a very long way from there.  From the thoughtful and respectful discussions and decisions that have occured, I'm confident that we will continue to improve.  
Remember that Esperanza is yours, and that you make it the awesome place that it is.  The council and the Admin General are simply here to help things run smoothly.  If there's ever anything on your mind, please drop by and let me know, I'll always be glad to listen.  -- Natalya 01:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A hello from your new Admin General 

message: There's yet more talk at WP:SIG regarding internal linking.  I'd encourage anyone interested to join in the discussion, as input is somewhat narrow at this point. - brenneman {L}  01:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internal links in sigs again 

message: Some of you may have noticed that I havent been here for a couple of weeks. I really need to change my ISP... - • The Giant Puffin • 08:29, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome back! :) —Celestianpower háblame 22:12, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  What happened? o.0 --Terrancommander 12:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lets just say Tiscali dont have a good customer service department... - • The Giant Puffin • 13:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My absebce 

message: I signed up last night and I wanted to introduce myself a bit. Some of you know me already, most of you probably don't. Anyway, I've been hearing about this group for a while, so I thought I'd finally join. I personally think that keeping a good sense of community is just as vital as the encyclopedia itself, and I'm glad there is an organization that tries to promote a sense of community here on wikipedia. I hope to be active in trying to promote such a community, and I look forward to meeting some new people here. My talk page is always open (I really like getting new messages, so if you ever need to talk, feel free). Bye for now!--The Ungovernable Force 18:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome! You may be interested in getting involved with some of our programs; or, if you think of another program that we should start up, feel free to suggest it at our proposals section. We look forward to having you in Esperanza! EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 19:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are way too many people with green signatures. I thought green would make my comments easier to find, but not anymore ;). NoSeptember 22:17, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking of having it red and black, but it seemed too harsh of a color. Maybe I'll try it here though, so tell me what you think.--The Ungovernable Force 01:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Use whatever colors you like, most do some experimenting until they find what they like. You could pick something unusual from list of colors. NoSeptember 04:44, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It's lovely to have you here!  EWS23 has already given many good ideas, and feel free to involve yourself in discussions here and elsewhere in Esperanza. -- Natalya 22:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen you around before Ungovernable Force, and it's great to have you here!! I hope you ike it, and that we'll all see a lot more of you. Thε Halo Θ 00:12, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bonjour! Why not have a green? Its cool (and environmentally-friendly!) :D --Terrancommander 13:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just wanted to say "hi"! 

message: Anyone for archiving the discussions? They're getting a bit the lengthy. --Terrancommander 13:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've archived a bit over half of the discussions, but I've left everything from the Assembly/Council discussion onwards, since we will soon be bringing that back up, and it's useful to have the previous discussions still here.  -- Natalya 17:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archiving 

message: Hi all,
I have just spent an hour or more leaving a combination of support, encouragement and correction for a young Singaporean Wikipedian who is considering leaving Wikipedia (User:Hildanknight).  This Wikipedian is listed on the Stress Alerts page but I find that page rather sterile and I'm not convinced that it actually generates much support for the Wikipedians listed there.
Please consider visiting Hildanknight's Talk Page and leaving him/her a note of encouragement.  
I think the various issues listed there have pretty much been addressed as best as they can be.  What I think is needed now is some notes of appreciation and encouragement that communicate the belief that this editor is already a valued contributor and can develop to be a great contributor.
This is, after all, what Esperanza is all about, isn't it?
--Richard 18:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedian in need of support 

message: There has been a lot over the past couple of weeks that I want to say about Esperanza, so rather than do it in drips and drabs, I'm going to post it here, all together. 
Firstly, I love Esperanza, from the bottom of my heart. I think it's the greatest thing that could happen to Wikipedia, and I am in complete accord with all of our principals. However, as I have said, I am tired of having to stand up for these beliefs, to constantly explain to people outside of Esperanza why we do what we do. Maybe we have lost sight of our core ideas in all this restructuring of the project, and maybe that has lead to confusion for other users, but I don't think so. We are viewed as a strange clique, a 'cool kids gang' (as many before me have said), and this worries me. Sort out this image problem, help people to understand that we are a group who are dedicated to strengthening the community through support and kindness, and then maybe we can help more people. On the question of whether or not Esperanza should become involved in cases of harassment, and personal attacks, well, I think I've made it quite clear that I am against this. Not only is this not what Esperanza is designed to deal with, I think it actually goes against some of our principals (the no judgement part especially). I do think it is a good idea, one that can be put into practice elsewhere and really do well. I just think that Esperanza's not the place for it. If it turns out that I am wrong, and this is the path that Esperanza wants to take, I will be fine with that. We are a community based on the decisions of the majority, but I will not follow suit. I will still be telling people that I am here if they need to talk, that I care, and that I hope that they are OK.
As far as our image goes, I think that, yes, it might need a face life, but basically, we all know what we are. 
Esperanza is an ideal. An ideal of support, an ideal of unity, an ideal of kindness. We are a symbol, a zenith of hope, which cannot die, nor can the users who are part of it. Our beliefs, unconquerable, our visions, incorruptible, our inner, undying desire to help this community, unquenchable. We are defined by our actions and our beliefs, and when you look into the core of Esperanza, you will find a unwavering devotion to Wikipedia and all of its editors. This is who we are.
Thε Halo Θ 02:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Very well said. Applauds -- Banes 16:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What we are, and what we do. 

message: But it's so much fun! -- Dyslexic agnostic 14:44, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I HOPE you get that I am being sarcastic, before I am banned again for no reason... -- Dyslexic agnostic 14:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just why do these people like to take their personal quarrels here? --Terrancommander 14:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No it looks very much like yet another instance of sig confusion, getting the wrong link. Or so it would seem. -- Banes 16:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Smartness, he took his own personal argument with an Esperanzian here and archived the ongoing discussion on his talk page. Similar style to Advocron. Why blow things big and get us all involved? --Terrancommander 04:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  T-Man editing 

message: User:71.84.2.85 changed "like" to "as" on WP:ESPERANZA.  To which I say, "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should".
--Richard 04:37, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "like" vs. "as" 

message: My last post was genuinely intended to be my last, but I seem to have caused such a ruckus (this seems to happen rather easily at Esperanza: I saw in the archives that the founder and first AG left in despair, but perhaps people get over-emotional around here) that I thought that I'd better come back and clarify one or two things.
*"Recruit my own private wiki-militia for pushing my own POV". I hope no one does feel this at all. Mr Blynguyen and I have never corresponded, either on Wikipedia or on e-mail or on IRC. I am not associated with him in any way; we are merely agreeing on a situation about which we feel similarly. If I have to say this again, I will; I am not attacking Esperanza. Nor is he.
*I'll clarify what I meant about that barnstar. I say that Esperanza should take a more proactive role in the community (using its considerable clout); combat personal attacks, take on the abusive trolls, and perhaps intervene in the more ludicrous kinds of POV disputes. Mr Blynguyen agrees. The Halo disagrees. The Halo is awarded a barnstar as a "Defender of Esperanza" (EsperanzaDef). Both the timing and the wording are unfortunate, as it makes it appear that it is perceived that Mr Blynguyen and I are attacking Esperanza. I am sorry if this contributed to his decision to leave.
*"The one and only Cliff " left a slightly odd message on Natalya's talk page. I'm not sure that I understood it fully, but I think that they may be questions that I am perhaps better placed to reply to than she is (with all due respect). If you want to have a chat, then leave me a message.
*Finally, I wish to apologise for the collateral damage and distress that I seem to have caused. However, I still feel that all my comments have been proportionate, and have had a slightly irrational response. Maybe I am too used to the operatic side of WP, where disputes are frequent but always assume a mild tone, are emotionally cool and good faith is always assumed. I have no doubts about the validity of my comments above: I think that Esperanza will only utilise its full potential when it becomes more active. However, strictly speaking it's not my business, but when I saw that several users who I'd worked with had either left or come close to leaving I felt that there should be more proactive support and protection for them, and that Esperanza might be a good organisation to take up this mantle. Once again, I apologise for the damage done, but as regards my original comments I remain unrepentant. Best, Moreschi 12:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know I said I wouldn't come here again for a while, but seeing as we're making ourselves clear, I thought I'd make it clear that I had nothing against the idea per se, just where it would be put into practice. The reason Esperanza doesn't get involved in those sorts of arguements is to keep ourselves nutural, so we can help everyone without being seen or tought to have taken sides. It can be difficult to try and help a user if Esperanza has had a major arguement with them in the past. I hope that clears up my stance, and that there are no hard feelings. Thε Halo Θ 12:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oh, darn. 

message: I have returned after about 4 months from leaving Wikipedia. So I would like to say this: I am glad Esperanza has become a much larger group since I left, and I am glad we have a new leadership. I simply will put it: I am back. No need to reply. WikieZach| talk 21:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh and wanted to say it (my break) was because of my work at CNN, and I am so happy that I got promoted to an International Correspondent. I am set to travel to Haifa tomorrow. WikieZach| talk 21:34, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool! Where is that?  Be sure to spread the wiki-love! Highway Return to Oz... 21:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Haifa? Haifa is in Lebanon, north of Israel. A possible ground invasion will occur and I need to be there for my new job. WikieZach| talk 21:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yikes! Be careful out there. Cowman109Talk 22:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome back, congratulations, good luck, and be safe! - CheNuevara 22:08, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They really need wiki-love. And be safe! Highway Return to Oz... 22:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks. WikieZach| talk 22:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Take care of yourself :) Thε Halo Θ 11:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Even though you said no need to reply, we can't help but not!  Great to see you back, and stay safe! -- Natalya 04:38, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hi...again! 

message: A new(ish) user has just approached me for help, and I remember seeing a link for Admin coaching/tutoring somewhere around here- can anybody point me in the right direction please?
I'll probably have forgotten about it tomorrow, so a reminder'd be nice too!
Thanks,
EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME | IMPROVEME 15:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:ESP/AC. Enjoy, Highway Return to Oz... 15:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Admin tutoring link 

message: Hello, I seem to remember that at one time there was a program where people could redesign other people's user pages, and I believe it was within Esperanza. I can't find the page anywhere. If someone knows where to find this, or better yet, if someone were willing to redo my user page, I would be most grateful. As you can see, I have no experience with web page design. Thanks!--Tachikoma 21:09, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, it used to be an Esperanza program, but it is now run my a different WikiProject. See Wikipedia:WikiProject User Page Help/Trading Spaces for more info. —Mets501 (talk) 21:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the pointer.--Tachikoma 21:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  user page redesign program?