Talk:Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit

message: moved from article, not by me:  Johnbod 22:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled 

message: I was glancing at this profile to read the first line of the profile on April 14, 2010 at 3:06PM. I was suprised..
It read:
"The seven giftslayed to my daughter who was trying to complete a conformation test using the wonderful wikipedia network. BTW-Thanks.
Looking at 1 Cor 1-14 in verses 8-10 we see that there are actually 9 gifts listed, The word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healings, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits;  diverse kinds of tongues;  interpretation of speeches. Then in verse 31 Paul encourages us to be zealous for or to covet the best gifts. Continuing on to verses 11-14 if we leave off tongues and the interpretation of speeches we have an incomplete body. We must covet or be zealous of all the gifts, the best ones would be the ones needed at the required time.
I'm not sure why the above graf even needs to be considered part of the discussion on the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit; the writer simply has confused the gifts of the Holy Spirit with the charismata. Shaun G 12:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language? 

message: User 70.230.240.66 recently changed some of the more traditional names of these gifts to conform to more modern equivalents ("Counsel" to "Right Judgement" and "Fear of the Lord" to "Wonder and Awe").  In sources like the Catholic Encyclopedia, the more traditional names are used, but I seem to recall that the more modern names are now being used in Confirmation classes, which I think might give weight to them being the "primary" names, with their traditional equivalents listed afterwards in an "also called" or "also known as" parenthetical.
However, this presents problems.  For example, the name "Fear of the Lord" is, I think, more widely recognized than "Wonder and Awe," so it seems like it makes sense to prefer the traditional term for it to the modern term (especially because "Fear of the Lord" has its own Wikipedia entry, while "Wonder and awe" does not).
:Whilst wonder and awe of God is a good thing, it is not the same as Fear of the Lord, and whilst it may be a gift of the spirit, it is one of the seven which Thomas Aquinas identifies as aids to the practice of virtue, which these seven are. 
:Luke 12:5 "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."
:Oliver Low (talk) 03:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd query these are more modern, except in the sense that the C17th is more modern than the Middle Ages.  I suspect this is a Catholic/Anglican division.  The article says it deals with the Catholic & Anglican traditions (there is a more Pentecostal version somewhere).  If there are two well-established sets of names in English, I think both should be given.  Counsel & Fear of the Lord still seem to be the Catholic favourites.  The very poor comments afterwards ("God goggles" indeed!) should be removed, and if necessary expanded on below, in an encyclopedic manner.   Johnbod 15:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming conventions for the seven gifts? 

message: I have updated the names of the seven gifts to correspond to the names listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and I have used St. Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica to define the gifts.
I think these are probably as authoritative as sources can get for this topic, outside of the Bible.  Thus, I respectfully ask that if anyone decides to change the names or definitions of these gifts, that they justify their changes using sources that are at least as authoritative.  In other words, don't just change "Fear of the Lord" to something other than "Fear of the Lord" because you think it happens to sound better.
That said, I think the definitions could still use some polishing.  But I would recommend that if you are going to try to improve the definitions, you rely on authoritative sources such as Aquinas -- don't just say that "Wisdom" is like "God goggles." Jawns317 17:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've revised the definitions of each gift to conform to Aquinas' definitions.  I encourage other users to refine these definitions and make them easier to understand -- but please keep them in conformance with Aquinas's definitions, or use another authoritative source.  Don't just try to define the gifts yourself.  That's not authoritative. Jawns317  —Preceding comment was added at 12:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Authoritative sources for names/definitions of gifts 

message: I'm only counting six, how do you get seven?
1.Chochmah (wisdom)
2.Binah (understanding)
3.Atzah (counsel)
4.Gevurah (might)
5.Daat (knowledge)
6.Yiras Hashem (fear of the LORD)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.170.70.61 (talk) 10:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Which altogether is not that much of a problem if we believe what we do, that the Inspirer of the Bible may at least sometimes in some places, in a possibly even nonmiraculous way, have the prophets and Bible authors uttered words the full meaning of which they themselves did not know. Thus even in a (seemingly at least) less spiritual matter, Moses or whoever else was the writer of Genesis may have been quite surprised himself that light preceded the sun, and later theologists helped themselves by saying light denoted the Angels or Grace or something alike, and only due to modern physics, we know it is true even in the literal sense (which does not say that what the theologists say was not true too). --84.154.74.108 (talk) 11:54, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Btw, the concept of Piety was not so much stressed as you think asby simitude and extension, possibly also mean to worship God which he prefers to call Religion. He takes piety, agreeing with all ancient sources, as fulfilling duties to the parents, and patriotism. If you are interested in the interpretation he gives why piety is in the catalogue of the Gifts: it somewhat replaces justice, a cardinal virtue, in this list, as piety is also a virtue annexed to justice, and can be taken as including Religion as the first of these virtues annexed to justice; and in the catalogue is not justice, whereby a man acts from his own rectitude (more fitting for the definition of a virtue), but piety whereby a man acts from reverence towards another (more fitting for the definition of a Gift) and not religion but piety since the thing that makes it a gift as opposed to something "only" virtuous is to worship God as a father. --84.154.99.24 (talk) 16:40, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isaiah 11:2-3 

message: Doesn't the Holy Spirit also have an equivalent role to that of the Offices of Christ. It sems that some also believe Him to be Priest, Prophet and King. ADM (talk) 22:50, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Offices of Christ

message: For the record, the first edit (ok, non-vandal edit) to have a UK/US English difference is here in March 2007, using "judgement", which is certainly UK English. So we go back to that per WP:ENGVAR. Johnbod (talk) 02:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  ENGVAR 

message: One of the many past contributors for this article (and, seemingly, one of the conscientious editors who is willing to act as a caretaker for many articles) is User:Johnbod, whom I have accidentally offended by attempting to return this article to a state which would be at least somewhat consistent with the original content of this entry, including the style format 
which was adopted by this article's original writers.
Less than one out of 10 British citizens (now, there's a safe statement – by this point in history, the real statistic is probably that less than one in 20 or 25 British citizens is an active member of any of the 21 or 22 rites which make up the Catholic Church) is even a baptized and registered member of the Catholic Church, but, at the same time, well over one in every five Americans is a registered Roman Catholic (to say nothing of those Americans who are members of the other rites within the Church as an entirety). The point is that one of Wikipedia's editorial style guidelines is that the variety of English which is used in an article should be decided, at least in part, by which English-speaking nationality has the strongest demographic or cultural ties to the subject matter of that encyclopedia entry.
If anyone who reads this talk page thinks logically, it will not be hard to visualize the pattern of questions which would inevitably come next: (1) What about the 45% of Canadians who are Catholic? (There are only about 30 million Canadians, so we are only talking about approximately 13 million Canadian RCs), (2) What about Australian Catholics? (Out of 20 million Australians, only about 5 million of them are Catholic – we can add them to the other 5 million Catholics who are British), (3) What about Lutherans?, (4) What about Anglicans?, etc., etc., etc.
Add up the 65 million registered American Roman Catholics (again, ignoring the 20 or 21 other rites of the Catholic Church) with the 8 million American Lutherans and the additional 2 million Americans who self-identify as Episcopalian or Anglican, and the arrival at the conclusion that all, or nearly all, of the Lutherans, Anglicans, and Catholics who are citizens of all of the other major English-speaking nations are outnumbered by the (approximately ) 75 million American Lutherans, Episcopalians, and Catholics by a factor of 2 to 1 is inescapable.
This article entry was started in April of 2005. Throughout 2005, 2006, and 2007, nearly all of the editors who helped with this entry were American, not any other nationality, and it is clear from actually reading those earlier versions of this article that most editors were writing from a Roman Catholic, American perspective. The fact that the attempt is being made at this late date to introduce Britishisms into an article that has been written in American English violates more Manual of Style guidelines than I can keep track of.
I will have more to address here later – those who would like to find out more should check the history page of this article and follow the appropriate links.    198.252.12.202 Talk 03:58, Friday April 10, 2009 (UTC)
:Any attempt to claim that this article, on a universal aspect of Catholicism, has "strong national ties" to the US, is a complete and gross misleading of WP:ENGVAR.  As to "Throughout 2005, 2006, and 2007, nearly all of the editors who helped with this entry were American", how can you possibly know? In fact the article had only about 5 significant enduring editors in this period, and no particular style or national "perspective" is evident at the start - it would be absolutely inappropriate for the article to have "a Roman Catholic, American perspective" anyway. The first distinctive style elements were introduuced in March 2007 (not by me) and were British, & were there until this anon ISP tried to remove them yesterday.  According to the policy, that should remain the style. Johnbod (talk) 14:06, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: British English-vs-American English ''again'': consistency within articles is mandatory

message: Unless somebody can find a source for the sentences regarding the oars and sails being the virtues and gifts the HS, I think it should be removed.  Also, the sentence is simply confusing structurally.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.5.114.142 (talk) 02:38, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oars on a Boat 

message: The bible says there are nine not seven. Hamburgerhound (talk) 20:50, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read the article. What you are talking about are the spiritual gifts. Ltwin (talk) 00:29, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nine Spiritual gifts not 7. 

message: My girfriend was asking me about the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit instead of looking it up herself, and was a bit miffed when all I found on Wiki was Roman Catholic material, insisting that the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit are Protestant as well.  It strikes me that there is something wrong with an outline that goes:
:2 In Christianity
::2.1 Roman Catholicism
:::2.1.1 The Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit
::2.2 Aquinas
::2.3 Augustine
:3 See Also
It should be:
:2 In Christianity
::2.1 Roman Catholicism
:::2.1.1 The Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit
:::2.1.2 Aquinas
:::2.1.3 Augustine
::2.2 Something about Christianity other than Roman Catholicism
:3 See Also
Or, if Roman Catholicism really is all we got:
:2 In Roman Catholicism
::2.1 The Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit
::2.2 Aquinas
::2.3 Augustine
:3 See Also
Pciszek (talk) 20:43, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Material for denominations other than Roman Catholicism? 

message: Replace it with Piety, as it should be. The Holy Spirit is Lord. Jesus is Lord. :-) 208.104.68.14 (talk) 21:20, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please fix the vandalism in the lead!