Talk:Carol Lambrino

message: Despite his father's marriage being morganatic in Roumania, would it still be legal, for example, when it comes to the succession to the British throne? Obviously, it's no big deal, but if so, shouldn't his descendants be included in the British line of succession too? Morhange 17:59, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Line of Succession to the British Throne

message: Since the court verdict hasn't been appealed (to date), shouldn't thise article be called Carol Hohenzollerin? GoodDay 23:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hohenzollerin 

message: Carol Lambrino's surname was not "of Romania" in English for the same reason we don't have "Vincent of Gogh", "Charles of Gaulle", "Robert of Niro" or "Claus of Bülow". Carol wasn't "of" anything. The fact that he was given the surname "al României" on his birth certificate means just that. It is a surname. The argument it should be translated on the same basis that "von Hohenzollern" becomes "of Hohenzollern" for the Romanian royals is ridiculous. The Romanian royals belong to the House of Hohenzollern and are princes and princesses of Hohenzollern. Lil' Mouse, please stop your campaign of POV-pushing original research. Charles 14:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See my answers here and here. Lil' mouse 2 (talk) 08:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

text: That says NOTHING of a surname "of Romania". Charles 15:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What are they trying to say then? “But it was too late. A year later, Zizi gave birth to Paul's father - who should be called Carol Mircea Grigore Hohenzollern of Romania, according to the "little court" here.” - dwc lr (talk) 15:55, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They are trying to say that he should have been born a prince. But even then I question the name format they use (the Romanian royals used a form of "of Hohenzollern"). Hohenzollern isn't a middle name, it indicates some sort of surname and "of Romania" is indicative of a territorial designation. The newspaper doesn't support "of Romania" as a surname and it also shouldn't be quoted as to what form of "Hohenzollern" "should" have been used, just that it might have existed in one form or another (von Hohenzollern, Hohenzollern, de Hohenzollern, we cannot determine from this source). It's like calling a Prussian Prince "Hohenzollern of Prussia", it's not a construction which was used, it's an inventive method of making a grand show. After all, royalty is grand and if it were not for the fact that Carol was a king's son, this wouldn't be in the paper, so I imagine an American newspaper, no matter how esteemed, is going to play it up. My favourite test to see if newspapers "get it" with royalty is the "Princess Diana" test. Charles 16:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They talking about the man’s name and they translate his surname to “of Romania” per the court ruling. - dwc lr (talk) 16:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It does nothing of the sort. The name "Hohenzollern of Romania" did not appear in any court ruling. This article precedes the time when Carol was given the surname "al României" on his amended birth certificate. They are talking what they think "should" have happened, not what did happen and not what is fact. Further comment is at AN/I. Charles 16:41, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

text: The article should be moved to Carol Hohenzollerin. GoodDay (talk) 19:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The discussion is about content, not about the article title. Carol is known mostly as Carol Lambrino as far as it has been shown.  Charles 19:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes and it’s been shown English sources use “of Romania” when mentioning his surname. - dwc lr (talk) 20:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Save it for elsewhere, you speak nothing as to the verifiability and context of your sources. Charles 20:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Could we sacrafice some of those names, so the opening paragraph won't be so difficult to read? It's rather bloated people. GoodDay (talk) 20:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They appear elsewhere in other articles and that is the issue (the fact that they appear anywhere in the article and what should they say). I am perfectly fine with the lead of this article saying Carol Lambrino, styled/self-styled as HRH Prince Carol of Romania with the other names elsewhere mentioned as Carol Lambrino, Carol Hohenzollern and Carol al României. That is what we are trying to determine. Charles 20:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He is mentioned in English sources with the surname Lambrino, Hohenzollern and of Romania it has been determined. If it hasn’t please provide some sources. - dwc lr (talk) 20:31, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, one source calls him Prince Carol and is a literal sloppy translation and the other uses "Hohenzollern of Romania", not "of Romania" and it also predates the birth certificate and speaks of "should haves" not of facts, something you have not addressed at all. Charles 20:36, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Carol's birth certificate gives a dash for his father's surname. Carol didn't inherit a house name, since he was not given the title of prince. The Romanian government can't give out titles or house names, so it gave him a surname. Also, the convention for not translating surnames exists for all of the example surnames not translated. Note also all of the people who are "of Savoy" with the surname "di Savoia". The Romanian courts did not combine any surnames. The birth certificate does not say "Hohenzollern al României". The Washington Times does not provide a surname. At all. You are hanging on by your fingernails here and you are wrong and none of your "sources" support you. Charles 20:45, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my last reply here on this matter. This issue covers content in multiple articles and is being centralized at WT:ROYALTY. Fair warning, if you want me to see it to prove me wrong, post it there. Charles 20:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are simply wrong. Washington Times provides a combined surname "Hohenzollern of Romania." Their article header says combined dispatches. The former surname is valid in EU countries, the latter in Romania. Unless you can reference your POV's, all of your unreferenced edits on this matter will be reverted per WP:V policies. Lil' mouse 2 (talk) 20:59, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See the replies here. Lil' mouse 2 (talk) 09:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Agreed with the first half of your statement: his surname is "Hohenzollern" without "of"/"von" in the EU countries less Romania. In Romania, however, it is "al Romaniei" ("of Romania"), per his birth certificate and English language sources. In neither situation Carol's surname is a title, as the courts, especially the Republican ones (e.g. French, Portuguese, Romanian), cannot bestow or decide upon aristocratic titles. Lil' mouse 2 (talk) 18:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

text: No, it is not resolved. I am waiting for more uninvolved and unbiased opinions. Charles 20:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surname 

message: What is being done to resolve the issue when can the template be removed. - dwc lr (talk) 22:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: WT:ROYALTY. Charles 22:48, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV template 

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