Talk:Least I Could Do

message: I wanted to point out something in the summary. During the part where Rayne has the Keira Knightley thing he claims that he's never led a girl on, yet in some of the earlier strips he's actually told girls that he's loved them. It was more of a casual "love you too" type thing, like someone would say in return to someone else (rather than an actual confession of love), but that would still be considered leading someone on by most standards of society. It's one of the earlier black & white ones (before Cyndi Wang I believe). I'll try & locate the exact one & post it. It's a small thing, but it's still an inconsistency in the storyline. I know, I'm too much of a geek. The sad thing is I'm not even really that big of a fan & I'm pointing this out. Tokyogirl79 (talk) 10:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The entry on Rayne is bloated again and must be trimmed down. I am trimming the section way down, removing duplicate information and plot bloat and will likely institute the same management over other characters in the near future.   BodhisattvaspathTalkContribs   21:52, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rayne

message: I don't really mind, but this article focuses far to much on the plot and details about the characters.  If any hardcore wiki people ever stumble onto this page you'll be hard pressed to defend against their arguments for cutting a good half of this stuff out. DevinOfGreatness (talk) 01:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Too Much Plot

message: Now that BFE handles stuff for more than one webcomic (also does the CAD-Premium animations, etc), do you think we should break it out into its own page?  Discuss. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:66.32.118.156 (talk • contribs) 15:23, 2005 July.
:I actually came to this page to see if there was a discussion on it, Since Blind Ferret Entertainment now handles Ctrl Alt Del, Player Verses Player and Least I Could Do and after bagging PVP will probably expand to include some more of the top webcomics they should have their own article even if for now it is just a brief description and a list of the properties they handle. --Seth Turner 12:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Blind Ferret Entertainment is currently handling projects for Least I Could Do, Looking for Group, Ctrl+Alt+Del & PvP, including web broadcast episodes and is currently attempting to produce the Least I Could Do webcomic as a cartoon series with Teletoon.   BodhisattvaspathTalkContribs   06:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

text: So is there anyone who disagrees that BFE should have their own page?  Everything written so far seems to support it.IMHO (talk) 19:26, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Blind Ferret Entertainment

message: I can't find my WikiLogin details, call me lazy. Surely the LFG Comic should be linked at the bottom of the article, along with the other links? 84.12.23.104 11:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking For Group is not a spin-off from Least I Could Do. It is a separate project created by Sohmer and deSouza. There is some erroneous information in the sub-article as well, such as the reference to Cale'Anon being a "Blood Elf". That is not referenced anywhere in Looking For Group, nor do I recall either Sohmer or deSouza mentioning it on their forum. Bodhisattvaspath 05:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: LFG comic

message: Why does Bra Man redirect here? --Eahiv 02:54, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bra man

message: Hey guys, the period is your friend. In normal writing there's usually no need for more than four or five commas in a single sentence.  Poor writing cheapens the quality of the article, and I'm sure we all want the LICD article to appear to non-strip-readers in the best possible light. Osurak 23:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Run on sentences

message: In the character section, I don't think it is necessary to get into each and every recent storyline since the skydiving arc. IMO this should be removed or placed into a separate section. Thoughts? Specifically I'm talking about the Rayne entry, which is about five times longer than any of the others. Osurak 23:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is very true. I've started cleaning up the entries, starting with the supporting cast. I'll be significantly shortening the entries over the new few weeks. Let leave this wiki page as an information page, not a novel version of the comic, ok people? Arcidius 06:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

text: That Rayne entry is getting long again, with the addition of more and more recent storyline arcs.  Contributors are also failing to correct for time-indicative information, such as "recent" and "recently".  If there's going to be a "history of Rayne", it should either have its own section, or be a different page entirely (preferably the latter). Bodhisattvaspath 16:02, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The numerous mentions of Seline are particularly getting excessive.  Especially since some of them were updated once and never again.  As for the above suggestion, I would support alternatively suggestion creation of a separate "storyline" section, and a large reduction in the character description of Rayne and other characters.  The storylines could be detailed outside of the descriptions of the characters. JeffHCross (talk) 05:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Storylines

message: ;http://www.leasticoulddo.com/index2.php?date=20030718
:Friday 18 July 2003 - Trevor Adams
;http://web.archive.org/web/20030727074317/http://leasticoulddo.com/
:;Saturday 19 July 2003
::Trevor had to unexpectedly leave town tonight, and was unable to complete Saturday's strip. In which case, no new strip today. Trev will be back on Sunday, so we won't miss more than one.
:;Monday 21 July 2003
::It appears that this weekend is the time for news.
::Due to personal issues and family obligations, Trevor will no longer draw for Least I Could Do. I wish him all the best in his future endeavours.
::What does this mean for us?
::Well, it means that I'm now on the hunt for a new artist to replace Trevor, and there will be no updates for a couple of days while I search.
:;Tuesday 22 July 2003
::We get by... with a little help from our friends.
::If all of you could find a friend & partner such as Lar, you'd be the better off for it. Believe you me.
::Rather than leaves you folks without any LICD goodness for a few days, Lar has pitched in and drew a couple of the scripts I planned on putting out this week.
;http://www.leasticoulddo.com/index2.php?date=20030722
:Tuesday 22 July 2003 - Lar deSouza
;;Thursday 24 July 2003
::We've found our new artist for LICD. Beginning this Monday (July 28th), we are back to a 6 strip/week schedule. For all intents and purposes, consider is LICD version 2.0.
;http://www.leasticoulddo.com/index2.php?date=20030728
:Monday 28 July 2003 - Chad WM. Porter
----
;http://www.leasticoulddo.com/index2.php?date=20050813
:13 Aug 2005 - Chad WM. Porter
;http://web.archive.org/web/20050816111318/http://www.leasticoulddo.com/
;;15 Aug 2005
::3 years ago, I started a strip called Least I Could Do with a guy around my age, named Markus. Markus and I put about 4 strips together before realizing it just wasn’t going to work. The source material was shite, and what I had in mind wasn’t meshing with his style.
::The project was shelved for a few months while I worked on scripts, and generally getting my ass together. I decided I would hire an artist this time, and I was lucky enough to find Trevor Adams. Trevor and I brought LICD to the web for 8 months, and it was a wonderful learning experience for the both of us.
::Eventually though, real world called Trevor, and he was forced to leave the strip in favor of one of those fancy 9-5 jobs. I was disappointed, because I felt we were just on the cusp of things, but the circumstances dictated his actions, and I can’t fault him for that.
::Once Trevor left, I offered the strip to my collaborator and best friend Lar deSouza, who was forced to pass it up due to similar issues as Trevor. Always being ‘the man’, Lar used his contacts and introduced me to one Chad WM. Porter.
::For the past 2 years, I have had the pleasure and the honor to work with Chad to create around 630 strips. We have put together a strip, and a community to go with it, that I never thought possible. With Chad’s style mixed with my warped sense of humor, I really felt as if we created something unique on the internet.
::...
::For the last 6 months, Chad has been struggling with his duties here with LICD. Aside to the strip, Chad works 10 hours a day during the week. Adding about 4 hours a day to do the strip, does not leave room for much else.
::...
::He’s not only my partner in crime here, but he’s one of my closest friends’ on the planet.
::...
::With our artist leaving, I had 2 choices in front of me. The first, was to quit LICD and move to another project. But, as I’ve said earlier, the only time I will ever stop writing this strip is when they nail my coffin shut, so my only real option was to find another artist.
::My first choice, always my first choice in everything, was to approach Lar. While he did shoot my ass down a few years ago, I was ecstatic when he accepted the position and agreed to become my partner.
::...
::Thus begins LICD v3.0. Big things are coming.
::Stick around.
;http://www.leasticoulddo.com/index2.php?date=20050815
:15 Aug 2005 - Lar deSouza
I thought the above might be an interesting historical reference. I'll dump it here, it may contain useful information for the article. Shinobu 06:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Ccawards.jpg

message: This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject.  If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class.  The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject.  Comics-awb (talk) 16:57, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

message: Okay, firstly is this needed? People make up words all the time that have not caught on, and the only two from this section that are in wide circulation are "vagoo" and "mango [manga]," neither of which are popular due to him. Which brings me to the second point:
"Vagoo," whether or not he made this word up himself, the meme came from a Fate/Stay Night doujin where the mangaka had blanked out parts of the word vagina with circles (a typical Japanese form of censoring words in manga). The scanlators left the circles in (because, heck, it's a hentai doujin - with all that sex going on, if the author censored something it must be for a reason). There is no link back to Sohmer coining this term and at best it's synchronicity, in which case the most popular form of it came from that Hmanga, so that gets the credit for it.
And "mango" for manga? That's been the name of 4chan's /a/ board since April Fool's Day of last year, so considering his comic with it was dated the 13th of May the same year, and that it's highly unlikely he and moot are in cahoots, he didn't coin this, either. Fair play to the other words, I guess, but he didn't 'invent' the two commonly encountered ones. Tesseraction (talk) 20:36, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd also question "FUQ". I've seen other instances of both "Frequently Unasked Questions" and "FUQ" long before it's apparent invention in LICD. Do a Google Groups search.205.211.54.10 (talk) 22:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

text: I'd highly suggest just cutting the whole section. None of the terms are used outside of the comic, and most of them aren't that frequent within it. AzureShadow (talk) 21:27, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

text: As shown in the conversation above, vagoo was not coined by LICD. Tokyogirl79 (talk) 11:31, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The Neologisms Section

message: LICD does not update on Saturdays, nor does it's Sunday update count as such because it's just the Monday update done early. I changed the overview to reflect this fact, but if someone could change the side-panel thing (I don't know how) to reflect that the webcomic updates Monday-Friday, I'd appreciate it. Kazhawrylak (talk) 20:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update schedule changes/misinformation 

message: The rationale behind Sohmer's Kickstarter project has been the cause of an edit war that led to some blocks, with a comment that the subject has already been discussed. If there's been any such discussion, I have no idea where it took place -- it certainly wasn't in this talkpage. I've unblocked one of the IP editors, specifically so that he can post his comments on this talkpage. If he misbehaves, I will re-block him myself.  DS (talk) 01:38, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources you provide are not reliable and not verifiable. Please read and understand the following.
*WP:V states that
#any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable published source using an inline citation.. The proposed material has been challenged. Is it attributed to a reliable source?Elizium23 (talk) 21:08, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: According to my discussion with Dragonfly6-7, it is completely reliable and verifiable. Both the article posted by Sohmer (more on why I call it an article and not a forum post below) and the Kickstarter project are not in question as to their existence or what they say.76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sohmer's postings are not a pure forum post as such. If you look at the structure of the website, all "posts" of this nature start out as news posts on the Least I Could Do main webpage, with a discussion link and automatic crosspost to the Least I Could Do forums. If I were to pull up an Archive.org snapshot of the website from a particular day, I would find the top few of these available on the main page not as "forum posts" but as news posts.76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Irrelevant, see next.76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: The question is, Did Sohmer make these public statements? Obviously he did, as per confirmation of the "first party" sources, which are self-evidently about Sohmer.76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: As no lawsuit has been filed, this is not surprising. The topic has been covered in major "media" which concern the topic, mostly newsposts/blogposts by other webcomic artists.76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: If it is notable enough to cover LICD and the status of an animation spinoff, then it is notable enough and important enough to accurately represent the text of the Kickstarter page. Your edit fails to do so and thus fails NPOV.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.236.91 (talk • contribs) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: We are, again not verifying the veracity of the claims Sohmer has made' because that would violate NPOV. We are verifying whether or not Sohmer has made the claims. You are attempting to argue the prior point, which is completely irrelevant.76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Where in any manner are you finding reason to contest the fact that Sohmer has made these claims?76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: I submit that you, by leaving out half of the information (fully half the content of the Kickstarter page), are engaging in "original analysis" which misrepresents the source in question.76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: No, you have not shown that at all. You have not even come close to showing that the source is unreliable for purposes of showing that Sohmer himself has made the claims.
*WP:NOT states:
#Wikipedia is not a soapbox, a battleground, or a vehicle for propaganda, advertising and showcasing. This applies to articles, categories, templates, talk page discussions, and user pages. Therefore, content hosted in Wikipedia is not for: ... Scandal mongering, something "heard through the grapevine" or gossip. Articles and content about living people are required to meet an especially high standard, as they may otherwise be libellous or infringe the subjects' right to privacy. Articles should not be written purely to attack the reputation of another person.Elizium23 (talk) 21:08, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Where is the article being written to "attack the reputation of another person"? The edit I offered points out that Sohmer's stated reason for creating the Kickstarter page is his belief that his intellectual property is infringed by a Teletoon project. The point of verifiability is whether Sohmer has made these statements: it is entirely possible and indeed desirable under NPOV that wikipedia report accurately on the source (e.g.: Sohmer made the following accusations stated as his reason for creating the kickstarter project) while remaining neutral as to whether the accusations are true or not.76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: I am sorry but you are simply, clearly incorrect.76.31.236.91 (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: So we phrase it more carefully -- how about, for instance, not mentioning the name of the animation company in question? This seems to be an instance where automated edit summaries have led to more harm than good; I'm not someone who self-identifies as an LICD fan, but under the circumstances, it strikes me as disingenuous to not mention the subject at all. DS (talk) 12:12, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

text: I am clearly incorrect? Good to know! What exactly about my meticulous quoting of policy relevant to the proposed sources is incorrect? Enlighten me. Anyway, the fact of the allegations are what cannot be included in the article. We can't say "There are allegations but we can't tell you who they are about. Follow the link to find out, wink wink, nudge nudge." Also, a blog reporting on a forum post is certainly not a reliable secondary source. Blogs have no editorial oversight. Elizium23 (talk) 17:03, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have previously replied inline with each sectional point that you cut and pasted from your boilerplate form response. If you are too lazy to bother to read my responses, that I cannot help, so I redirect you to them now. Please respond to them, rather than simply scrolling to the bottom and ignoring the bulk of the conversation. Thank you. 76.31.236.91 (talk) 19:49, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: So now I see this. The simple fact of the matter is that the sources provided are Sohmer's own, and considered a self-published source. The instances when Wikipedia can use self-published sources as reliable are small. Self-published or questionable sources are only reliable for claims about themselves, not about other people. This is abundantly clear in the section WP:SELFPUB. Sohmer's forums, or anything that is published by himself and not a third party, as well as blogs with no editorial oversight reporting on his own forums (questionable sources) cannot be used to verify claims against someone else. Elizium23 (talk) 20:40, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Again you are missing the point. We are not "verifying claims against someone else." We are verifying whether or not Sohmer has made the public statement of his claims. We can certainly, without malice and without NPOV and without deliberately misrepresenting a source report the fact of his making said claims while remaining neutral on whether his claims are correct as a matter of fact/law or not. What part of this is so hard for you to grasp? Sohmer's website, Sohmer's forums (on which he is the admin), and Sohmer's created Kickstarter project page all qualify as sources to verify what Sohmer has publicly stated. Basics of journalism 101: "Republicans are a bunch of retards" is non-neutral opinion, "Democrat X said 'Republicans are a bunch of retards', Republican X countered with 'statement y'" is NPOV journalism. 76.31.236.91 (talk) 20:48, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:RS is clear: Questionable sources are generally unsuitable for citing contentious claims about third parties, which includes claims against institutions, persons living or dead, as well as more ill-defined entities. The proper uses of a questionable source are very limited. Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, especially in articles about themselves, without the requirement that they be published experts in the field You cannot include the claim itself on Wikipedia without a reliable third-party source to back it up. You cannot couch the claim in conditional language - see WP:WEASEL for why we don't do this. The claim itself, against a third party, is at issue here, not the verifiability of the veracity of the claim. This is not "information about Ryan Sohmer" this is information about a third party. Elizium23 (talk) 20:59, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, where does "Claims about what people say, think, feel, or believe, and what has been shown, demonstrated, or proved should be clearly attributed[5]" fail to be clearly attributed that Ryan Sohmer has made these accusations. This is again not a claim that the accusations are true, merely proof that this person has made this public statement. Thus it is MERELY INFORMATION ABOUT RYAN SOHMER. 76.31.236.91 (talk) 22:25, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kickstarter? 

message: I just made a post on my talkpage. Please read it before continuing with the dispute regarding Sohmer and the Kickstarter page; thank you. DS (talk) 14:01, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Well, how about that. 

message: Once an argument gets to the meta stage, it is very, very difficult to ever resolve constructively.
A meta argument is an argument about the tactics being used in the argument. As such, it very quickly becomes stupid and pointless.
I would like to ask that meta disputes be put on hold for now. Last time the issue of the source's reliability was being discussed (on the talk page for The Dating Guy), the dispute was abruptly halted when the page got deleted (after an AfD). So there was no real resolution, which has led to more messes.
I suggest "As a result of further disputes with Teletoon, Sohmer initiated a Kickstarter project to etc etc [ref kickstarter page, ref Sohmer's admin post on Sohmer's official forum]". Does anyone object to that wording? And if so, why? DS (talk) 18:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Since I weighed in above, I might as well continue:  I don't think mentioning any dispute is appropriate if there isn't a third-party source for it.  Saying "Somner is pursuing independent funding to begin production..." is neutral. The Examiner avoided mentioning any dispute, using Sohmer's words "opted out."     Toddst1 (talk) 00:18, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Try paying closer attention: the Examiner article pre-dates the show "The Dating Guy", as well as Sohmer's stated timetable of being made aware of its existence and the circumstances of its similarity to (what he considers the uncredited/unpaid use of) the IP he had already developed. Saying the Examiner "avoided" mentioning it is an unfair or inaccurate characterization. 76.31.236.91 (talk) 02:28, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meta-arguments 

message: The last sentence of Least_I_Could_Do#Animated_series includes the statement "production work on the pilot has commenced" which is not supported in the source. This source says that scripts are being written which is very different from the production stage.  I tagged it as  a few days ago. I'm now going to remove the statement.   Toddst1 (talk) 00:29, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not do that. Either change it to "scriptwriting" with your source, or else consider that "production" means very different things when considering an independent, animated work and that you are applying an incorrectly chosen standard. 76.31.236.91 (talk) 02:23, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Production 

message: Okay, the anon editor has been making two additions to the article. First, there's a statement about 'the Dating Guy', phrased in an unacceptably hostile fashion. Second, there's a mention of news regarding the LICD program's production schedule. 
I don't think you would have faced restrictions on your editing if you hadn't repeatedly made those hostile statements about TDG. Those other people who have this article on your watchlists, can I have confirmation ? DS (talk) 17:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The editor is likely another sock of Fahey and clearly the same user as  and  Toddst1 (talk) 18:39, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anon edits 

message: I noticed someone called this spam, it's not spam as the series premieres next month. Sohmer also confirmed on the comments for the blog that rights to Consequence Free from Great Big Sea have been confirmed for the series here: http://www.leasticoulddo.com/presented-without-comment/#comment-844320209  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.234.1 (talk) 19:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cast work and videos 

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thread_title:  External links modified