Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics/Phonetics/Archive 1

message: Wouldn't it be great if each article had its IPA phonetics code, as in Stockholm? Stern 17:33, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: They do now.  I mean, each phoneme article now has its corresponding IPA number in it. Denelson83 04:29, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: IPA phonetics codes

message: A while ago I made a bunch of diagrams for the various places of articulation on :ar: (eg bilabial).  I was thinking these might be useful to add, but I'm not necessarily sure of their accuracy; what do you think? - Mustafaa 20:21, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The red and black make him a little scary! I think it would be good to use them. When you called them diagrammes I was expecting a line drawing. I suggest you add them (via commons): they are accurate enough for me. --Gareth Hughes 23:14, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Diagrams?

message: Last night I converted 49 articles to use Template:Infobox IPA. Unfortunately, there are another 45 that can't be converted to the template as it currently stands.  The problem?  The Infobox IPA template can only accept a single number, the UNICODE code point for a single character, and these remaining 45 pages all require a composite character for their IPA.
The only solution I could come up with would be to pass the template the full HTML for both the IPA and the HTML entity, rather than letting the template convert a naked code point into both.
Any thoughts? IceKarmaॐ 19:03, 2005 Apr 27 (UTC)
:I made a new template Template:Infobox IPA base that allows full separate specification of the unicode and the entity, and remade Infobox IPA so that it just calls that template with the appropriate parameters. IPA characters that require multiple Unicode code points can call the base template directly. Nohat 19:47, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with Infobox IPA template 

message: At Template talk:IPA#Links, we are discussing possible changes to the Template:IPA (this is the template used to mark the use of the IPA, e.g.  which produces ). Please join there. J. 'mach' wust • tskʃpræːx 09:58, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Discuss Template:IPA

message: The article on vowels needs work as per a nomination to remove from from FA-status. Any help is appreciated.
Peter Isotalo 22:33, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help improve [[vowel]] 

message: At Talk:Nucular, I've exposed a possible phonotactical motivation for the emergence of the word nucular. Now before I write it in the article, I'd like the opinion of an English language linguist, since I'm not entirely sure whether the exposed idea is acceptable. So could anybody have a look at it? -- j. 'mach' wust ˈtʰɔ̝ːk͡x 14:44, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Phonotactics of "nucular" — opinions?

message: The articles on individual sounds, both vowels and consonants, would look a lot better if we could agree on a unified layout. Proper leads are definetly needed, for example. Right now it's too much about just articulation and the physical properties of the sound, but few good summaries of how common it is in the world's languages, what sounds it tends to be contrasted with and all that. The "In English"-sections aren't what I'd call ideal either. Prevelance in English should be focused on, but not if the sound really doesn't exist.
I don't feel we need an actual template page for this, but please give some feedback on stucture and layout right here.
Peter Isotalo 08:13, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  I think that, for one, we could give the consonants a single occurs in  section (like in the vowel pages) rather than an in english section and an in other languages section (or a section for each language).  I'll start changing them myself if nobody disagrees.  Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 00:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standardizing 

message: I have a draft up on User:Cassowary/Uralic phonetic alphabet about the Uralic phonetic alphabet, to replace Uralic Phonetic Alphabet and Finno-Ugric transcription. I don’t know much about it though, and would appreciate any help. If you can, please dive in. —Felix the Cassowary () 11:14, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I've got fairly good Unicode coverage, but I find there are a lot of UPA characters that do not display properly for me. If you can find a selection of fonts that generally do provide good coverage of UPA characters you might want to create something like template:IPA which incorporates them, and post a message saying which fonts (as long as they are free to download) are needed to view the alphabet. The article looks good otherwise. Gareth Hughes 11:33, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm currently using User:Cassowary/UPA as a template, which is based on template:IPA, but (a) strips it down to Code 2000 which is the only Unicode font I know of that has these characters and (b) puts it into italics. It also uses the class UPA for personal customisations. —Felix the Cassowary () 11:53, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

text: "Schnalzlaute" means clicks and "mouilliert" means "softened" (as in "palatalized"). Things would be easier to read if you didn't put the symbols in italics. --Angr/ 12:34, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Usually abbreviated "bzw.", it's short for beziehungsweise. "X bzw. Y" can be translated "X and Y, respectively" or "X or Y, as the case may be" or "X and/or Y", depending on context. Bad translators often translate it "X resp. Y", mistakenly thinking that "respectively" can be used as a conjunction in English and can be abbreviated "resp.". --Angr/ 14:04, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. Interestingly, I saw that bad translation (X resp. Y) just today... Suspected it was foreign language interference, had no idea what the source was :) —Felix the Cassowary () 15:34, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: UPA draft

message: Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles on phonetics? To my non-expert eye Swedish phonology looks like a possible A-class article, what do you think?  Are there featured articles in this area?. Please post your suggestions and comments here. Cheers, Walkerma 05:02, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project 

message: I'm not terribly happy about how the phoneme tables are handled in sopme main language articles, particularly Russian language#Consonants. There's a tendency to be super accurate in defining the exact realization of individual phonemes. I think diacritics should be dispensed with completely in the  tables unless they represent distinguishing features within the specific language. Keeping the diacritics in the tables can be a problem because of systems not capable of reading the characters and, more importantly, because it's a potential breeding ground for in-fighting over which dialects should or should not be represented among the phonemes. Since phonemes are abstract and generalized concepts anyway, I think the finer points of phonetic gestures should be made in prose and in the sepearate phonologies, not in the main tables.
Peter Isotalo 14:09, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Complicated phoneme tables 

message: A user at Bulgarian language is refusing to recognize vowel charts and analyses taken from the IPA handbook as valid. Some outside views and comments would be nice.
Peter Isotalo 17:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgarian conflict 

message: I have nominated Linguolabial trill for deletion. Please participate in the discussion. Angr (talk • contribs) 06:13, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AFD 

message: question for my phonetics people: if "*Lisp" is spoken "Star-Lisp", is it pronounced as such? I'm sure it doesn't matter terribly, but my mind gets stuck on such things. see talk:connection Machine#pronouncing * "star". I was also thinking of asking at talk:pronunciation. kzz* 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  hi y'all 

message: There are now several places on wikipedia which claim that Icelandic ð does not correspond to  but rather a voiced alveolar non-sibilant fricative (and correspondingly for þ). See  and . I am a bit sceptical about this and would appreciate if there was a source provided. Unfortunately, User:Kwamikagami who added this is away so I am asking here. Thanks for any help. Stefán Ingi 19:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for the lack of refs. This was a while ago, and I'm out of the country, but I believe the source was Ladefoged's Sounds of the World's Languages. kwami 17:13, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for replying, I realise that you are away, in the end I found the first reference for this, see Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#Icelandic þ and ð (repost with more info). Now the question is whether it is necessary to use the subscripts  and  in IPA transcriptions of Icelandic words on Wikipedia or whether simple  and  can be considered close enough. Stefán Ingi 17:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say simple  and  are enough in broad transcription, and even in narrow transcription unless the precise articulation of the sounds is the topic under discussion. User:Angr 17:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Icelandic þ and ð