Talk:10,000 Days (Tool album)

message: Hi, guys! has the genre been discussed? maybe it ain't much to discuss, but maybe 'art rock' would appropriate alongside the obligatory progressive metal? the whole 10,000 days epic, the lipan conjuring and lost keys interludes, intention and right in two are particularly artsy, what say you?Revan ltrl (talk) 20:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Genre

message: Some additions to the article have been regarding the backmasking of "Listen to your father, stay in school," etc. in "Intension." I've listened to the song backwards, and it's absolutely there -- it's not one of those suspicious backmaskings that obviously were not intentional, like Satanic messages in Beatles songs. However, I'm hesitant to allow its mention in the article, because it seems like it's verging on Original Research. I was hoping some other people could chime in so that we have a consensus about what to do with it when anons add it in. Kane5187 17:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Until you find a reliable source, it can't go in. But I'm gonna go try it now. Foolish Child 17:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be awkward to cite, for sure, but it is definitely there. This isn't the random ramblings of the (usually idiotic) Tool fanbase. King Bee 06:12, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah it's there.  It's just whispered, and it's nothing interpretive.  You can absolutely make it out.  When you reverse the song, it begins at around 5:50 and ends at around 6:20 (so 0:41 from the normal song to about 1:11). --Silvaran 01:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Not sure if I was specific enough; I'll get the exact wording later (Kudos to Kane5187 for noticing this in the first place).  I notice in the article it reads, "listen to your mother," but I'm not sure if it says mother or father.  Will post results later. --Silvaran 03:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I listened to it again, in reverse, and clarified the writeup in the article; hope everybody's happy :).  If we need citations, I've no idea what to do.  I can't find a reference on Google and I don't have the webspace to host the kind of evidence such a citation might need, so let's rely on readers to find the evidence themselves :). --Silvaran 03:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone removed it, I added it again.  It is now so widely recognized that it is all over Google when searching for the lyrics for "Intension".--Moeburn 14:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Is a Youtube video a reliable enough source? Link :p--SeanQuixote | talk | my contribs 17:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Backmasking in "Intension"

message: Anyone else have any theories about who (if any one person) "The Pot" is about? The more I listen to it, the more I think it's directed towards Rush Limbaugh over his Oxycotin scandal. ("Who are you to wave your fatty fingers at me? You must have been out your mind"). So far I haven't found any corroborating theories on this, but even the idea that it could be directed towards Limbaugh brings a smile to my face. Anyone have any other theories on this? - Y2mckay 22:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Generic, not about anyone in particular. Orichalcon 08:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Methinks it concerns the Cheyenne chief Black Kettle, especially since Lipan Conjuring comes right after it. --King Bee 19:44, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I heard a few people say it actually was Rush Limbaugh. As the rumor goes he said "They must have been high" in regards to A Perfect Circle recording the album Emotive. Rush being the pill popper we all love, makes the comment rather hipocritcal if he actually said it. Be a nice note to add if someone could find a proper citation for it. Hobomaloney
Personally, I just think the song is about hypocricy. It's been claimed many times and apparently by Maynard James Keenan himself. Who who's the hypocrite? Hm... YesMapRadio
From what I know the song is speaking to the injustice of the Kangaroo Courts for marijuana trials that were unfair and speedy.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.238.189 (talk) 20:01, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Theories About "The Pot"

message: Does anyone else think that there's far too many professional reviews on this page. Is it really neccessary to have more there than just the usual reviews (Rolling Stone, AMG, etc.).  I get the impression also that some of them aren't really professional. hellboy 01:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Professional Reviews

message: I was at the toolband site and on the left arm like thing by the tv I found a hidden link talking about filming the Rosetta Stoned video outside area 51, If anyone can confirm this, i cant figure how to get back.Gothmog1114 21:48, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The August Newsletter is all about the filming of the Rosetta Stoned stuff in Area 51.  Perhaps you went there by mistake. hellboy 23:58, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Music Video

message: two pieces of foolishness have no place in the wiki.
"Another fan noted that jambi is also Finnish for iamb, a metrical foot where an unstressed syllable is followed by a stressed one, and that iambic meter is used in the lyrics of the song."
that is idiotic, and highly characteristic of tool fans. BLAIR's response in the newsletter clearly RIDICULES the idea that the finnish connection was intentional. in English there are two simple foot schemes (among others): IAMBIC and TROCHAIC. there are millions of poems and lyrics that use an iambic form. it's probably the most common foot scheme in English.
the morse code connection is even more idiotic. music uses rhythms. morse code is an alphabetic code using short and long blips. if you wanted to you could find all kinds of ridiculous "write-outs" by taking a morse code pattern from the rhythmics of any song ever recorded. you have to stop and ask yourself whether the phrase "3, 2, 1" could have any possible meaning whatsoever. the answer of course is no.
it's laughable that people find the need to reduce everything tool does to some pointless, incoherent, ridiculous puzzle or cipher. is the music somehow not good enough in its own right? you could find the exact same useless "messages" and connections IN ANY SONG EVER performed, if you're intent on finding one. yes there's probably a such thing in the world as a meaningful coincidence, or a productive coincidence, but the encoded message nonsense is garbage. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.119.132.160 (talk • contribs).
: Calm down a bit, and slow down on the name-calling; we can handle stuff like adults here. No need to be so hostile for something that (while annoying) is generally not worth arguing about.
: I agree, however. I do find speculation and useless overanalyzing like that to be out of place especially on Wikipedia (save it for the fansites), but also rather dumb. The 'iambic meter' bit being the finest example yet. 99.173.63.38 (talk) 14:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: foolishness

message: I'm really tired of coming here and see that someone has edited the 10,000 Days page to say that Jambi uses iambic meter.  It does not.  If you, for whatever reason, think that it does, then please provide examples from the lyrics where iambic meter is used. If you can't, then do not alter the article to say that it does. Mrmcpheezy 19:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Likewise, if you are going to call someone ignorant, you need to site examples or sources. In other words, no matter how sick and tired you are of others' edits, you don't have the right to vandalise. J-Dog 04:40, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't them saying that a song uses iambic meter when it does not count as an example of their ignorance?  I sure think so. Mrmcpheezy 18:17, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That may be, but surely it would be better to simply remove the false information, than to insert insults? If we all added insults every time something was wrong on Wikipedia, it would be unsuable. Oli Filth 21:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with Mrmcpheezy, the song clearly does not use iambic meter, at least I couldn't find any of this meter in Maynard's singing. --Dexter_prog (talk • contribs • &site=en.wikipedia.org count) @ 18:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jambi does not use iambic meter.

message: So, I had to add a original reasearch tag to the article, because I'm sick of Tool fans adding all of these claims about the backmasking, the wine, or anything else of that nature. We need to cite our sources here. So, I suggest we start finding sources, or start deleting things. Thanks. –King Bee (τ • γ) 17:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked, and this one really is there. Reverse the track (using Audacity or somesuch), and then jump to about 5:51 (in reversed time, so around 1:30 in forward time).  Google returns loads of results ; we just need to find a good reference. Oli Filth 00:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, for things like this, what counts as a good reference?  It's not like someone's going to write a peer-reviewed paper on the matter, and it's not going to go in the Encyclopedia Britannica.  I'm sure the band themselves will have nothing to say about it either.  Oli Filth 00:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm aware that the Intension business is true (I tried it myself as well). However, Wikipedia isn't concerned with facts, it's concerned with what is verifiable information from a reliable source. I would suppose that a reputable tool fan page (like this one) would probably suffice for a source on such information. Over at the Nine Inch Nails page, we use this fan news site as a reliable source like crazy. –King Bee (τ • γ) 04:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:OR]] 

message: Nothing in this article about what or where that sample of dialogue in "Lost Keys" comes from? DJRaveN4x 11:25, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you sure it is a sample and nothing recorded by the band for the album? Because Rosetta Stoned is, like, the patient answering to the doctor in Lost Keys.Revan ltrl 19:18, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If that be the case, shouldn't it be noted at least who the voices belong to? I'm pretty sure it's from House (TV series) because the doctor sounds an awful lot like Chase...DJRaveN4x 03:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to http://www.butcherband.com/butcher/bio.php (the website of Butcher, a band Blair keeps posting about), Camella Grace (Adam Jones' wife) is the voice of the nurse. I've added it to the main page but I'm not sure how to add references yet - if somebody else can do that I'd greatly appreciate it. Nith Sahor 20:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sample in "Lost Keys" 

message: The article said that Ray Zone was credited for the 3D modeling found in the album art.  This is not true.  The computer-generated 3D modeling was created by (and credited to) Bayard Baudoin and Meats Meier.  Ray Zone converted this CGI (as well as the photographs) to stereographic images viewable through the lenses provided.  He did not model any of the 3D figures.  I removed this statement from the article.  Unless you can prove otherwise, please refrain from undoing this change, Oli Filth. 67.70.97.31 18:12, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, on a second look, the CD credits are ambiguous, as no-one is credited for "3D modelling".  Oli Filth 18:27, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  3D Modeling 

message: It says that the video has not been released. I have seen the video, I know it HAS been released. someone needs to fix that.
:No, it hasn't. The only videos currently available are imitators made by fans. Also, sign your comments. DJRaveN4x 18:40, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was released a while ago. -- ...RuineЯ|Chat...  01:51, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vicarious Video 

message: Where does Adam Jones use a sitar? Seems like a load of nonsense to me...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.242.88 (talk) 16:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sitar? 

message: The whole section needs to be outright removed, it's in clear violation of everything wikipedia stands for (See: Being an encyclpedia, not songmeanings.com or a fansite).
Song interperation is out of place in an encyclopedia. You'll see nearly no other wikipedia album articles littered with this much speculative and plainly useless interperation. On the songs page is more acceptable. NOT on the albums page.
I understand a lot of you are Tool fans (as am I), and believe that it's valid under your belief that Tool songs are more open to interperation than say, the Jonas Brothers; but that is irrelevant, this whole section is still out of place in an otherwise decent album article.
So in closing, please move it to either the songs page (if it doesn't have one, tough luck) or delete it entirely, it's out of place with nearly all other album articles on wikipedia. 75.149.203.217 (talk) 18:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Expanding on this for a moment, as to not come around as overly hostile, the 'interperations' for Lipan Conjuring and Jambi seem relevant, as they link to other relevant articles on Wikipedia. However, other such those for Intension, Lost Keys, and Wings for Marie need to either be removed or drastically shortened. I guess my real concern isn't so much the section itself but its insane length as compared to the rest of the article. Remember that these articles are meant to be easily accessed by the average person and not just fans of the band, and as such all of this minorly-speculative information is overwhelming in scope when compared to the sections that need expanding (see: nearly everything else in the article), so it should either be deleted, moved, or at the very least drastically shortened to an acceptable level. 75.149.203.217 (talk) 19:07, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Agree leave this kind of stuff for fansites and notable song pages. hellboy (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Petitioning for Removal of 'Track Interpretations' Section 

message: Was "Viginti Tres" made by Lustmord? It is pretty similar to his album releases and the sound effects he did for the "Vicarious" music video. --Wiz-Pro3 (talk) 13:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never seen anything to suggest that it is....hellboy (talk) 04:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Viginti Tres" track - a Lustmord composition? 

message: This is said in in the 'Track Interpretations' section:
Contact with alien entities as well as an inability to understand the experience is common with heavy DMT usage.
It is formulated as stating common knowledge, which it is not. There is also no problem in understanding a DMT experience,
and if there is, it has nothing to do with DMT usage at all. If this sort of information is to be presented in this
manner (conveying general knowledge instead of sticking to telling the storyline) it ought to be done somewhere else
by someone who has experience in these matters.
So, because it is not in the song, but an opinion, wrong, not factual, I opt to remove that line.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.251.69.245 (talk) 04:30, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong opinion on DMT 

message: This video contains Maynard with his opinion on internet downloading/leaks, dont know if a youtube video can be a source though. I also believe it is the only source on this matter...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idPPnWRgTiU  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.103.14 (talk) 22:03, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internet Leak 

message: I recall hearing when the album came out that it was titled such because the date was 10,000 days before the Mayan calendar said the world was going to end. Anybody have a source on this? DanielDPeterson (talk) 23:57, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: A little research proves that it's only about 2,500 days between May 2nd, 2006 and December 21st, 2012. Scratch that. DanielDPeterson (talk) 23:59, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: 10,000 Days does not refer to Saturn. It's the approximate time Maynard's mother, Judith Marie, lived while paralyzed before she died. It's even noted in the lyrics to the song 10,000 Days. If Maynard mentioned Saturn, it was likely another time that he and/or the band tried to obfuscate their intent as they have done with nearly every release. Darclyte777 (talk) 12:15, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title Meaning 

message: Hi.  I created a "Trivia" section to mention the synchronised songs, however the only proof I have is from a blogspot page about Tool.  Anybody able to find a more reliable source about it?
Here is the "Trivia" section recreated in case the wikibot blocks the URL from changing the page again (it said something about how the URL wasn't appropriate for Wikipedia, which makes sense, because its from a blog.  However, I feel like this should be mentioned on the page and that's currently the only source I have for it)
===Trivia===
It has been revealed that when playing some of the songs together, you can create hidden songs from the album.  Currently, the known mix is of "Viginti Tres," "Wings for Marie (Part 1)," and "10,000 Days (Wings Part 2)."  This is achieved by using a sound editor, placing "10,000 Days" in its own track, and then placing "Viginti Tres" and "Wings or Marie (Part 1)" in a second track, with "Wings" directly following "Viginti."  This puzzle-like combination of songs is similar to the picture of the members of the band, which has been hinted at being able to be put together as a sort of a puzzle.  Fans have noted similarities among other songs that may suggest more of these musical puzzles to be solved, perhaps aimed at creating a larger final result. (Source: http://tool.wordpress.com/2006/06/20/tool-post-to-go-here/).
:The source used is just a random blog, and not a reliable source, and should not be used. I highly doubt you'll find a reliable source that does support this, it just seems like original research of some fan who's really grasping for things that may not really be there... Sergecross73 msg me  16:00, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Synchronised Songs Continued:

message: It has been revealed that when playing some of the songs together, you can create hidden songs from the album.  Currently, the known mix is of "Viginti Tres," "Wings for Marie (Part 1)," and "10,000 Days (Wings Part 2)."  This is achieved by using a sound editor, placing "10,000 Days" in its own track, and then placing "Viginti Tres" and "Wings or Marie (Part 1)" in a second track, with "Wings" directly following "Viginti."  This puzzle-like combination of songs is similar to the picture of the members of the band, which has been hinted at being able to be put together as a sort of a puzzle.  Fans have noted similarities among other songs that may suggest more of these musical puzzles to be solved, perhaps aimed at creating a larger final result. (Source: http://tool.wordpress.com/2006/06/20/tool-post-to-go-here/).
:The source used is just a random blog, and not a reliable source, and should not be used. I highly doubt you'll find a reliable source that does support this, it just seems like original research of some fan who's really grasping for things that may not really be there... Sergecross73 msg me  16:00, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: I think that this should be called a "Layered Song" as Synchronisation refers to time, whereas the tempo is not consistent in the layered song.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Psypherium (talk • contribs) 03:46, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Synchronised"?

message: It is actually there. I guess if enough Tool fanboys grasp at straws, one of them will eventually find something legitimate. Find cites before you put it in though. 143.92.1.33 (talk) 03:56, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surprisingly 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/50albums/page/8
** In 10,000 Days on 2011-05-23 01:55:15, 404 Not Found
** In 10,000 Days on 2011-05-31 20:57:57, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 20:58, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.hitlisterne.dk/2006/lister.asp?w=19&y=2006&list=a40#
** In 10,000 Days on 2011-05-23 01:55:17, 404 Not Found
** In 10,000 Days on 2011-05-31 20:58:08, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 20:58, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.yle.fi/lista/listat/albumit.php
** In 10,000 Days on 2011-05-23 01:55:20, 404 Not Found
** In 10,000 Days on 2011-05-31 20:58:25, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 20:58, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 3 

message: Two Hearted River uploaded a new version of the album cover image displaying the 3D glasses insert over the cover. I wasn't so sure of this done as the accessory isn't apart of the album's artwork as suggested by Template:Infobox album#Cover, but he argued with it after I reverted it and reverted it back to his revision so I wanted to ask here. What does anyone else suggest what should be done here? • GunMetal Angel 17:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've got an idea. How about the album cover with no glasses be shown in the main image area of the infobox; the image with glasses can then be placed elsewhere on the page, maybe like in an "alternative cover" area, possibly in the infobox. How does that sound? Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 09:01, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that could be good, in fact the section that mentions the accessory could have the image placed there in regards to illustrating what it looks like on the album. I certainly believe the image with the glasses on it does not belong in the infobox, however. Mainly because well, it's not the album's artwork. It's just a flap that folds over the top of it all. It's an accessory. • GunMetal Angel 09:16, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

text: I'll restate my argument here from GunMetal Angel's talk page: I would argue the version I uploaded more accurately shows the cover artwork for the album. The 3D glasses flap is not an accessory, it is built into and integral to the package: that the lenses align with the eyes indicates this was not an afterthought. Also, that the flap is on the outside when you buy the album (and is designed to fit best that way) demonstrates that this is how Tool intended the cover to be displayed. They could have easily modified the flap to be on the inside if their intent was to display the cover as you would show it. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 10:47, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Having looked at the uploaded images I totally miss one thing: Where are the uploaded images originating from ? What is the source for the uploaded images, especially the current version with the glasses on top? There is no possibility to review it and support the argument. Looking at the referenced reviews I think the original image should be the one in the infobox. In addition I recommend to update the image page with the source of whatever image is finally agreed upon to be shown. Cdl obelix (talk) 18:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The source for the image with glasses is a scan of the actual album package. Here's a video that shows the packaging. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 18:41, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Obviously there are album releases with and without glasses. So I find the idea of showning both of them a good idea. Cdl obelix (talk) 07:30, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I'm almost certain there are no physical releases without glasses...at least not in the CD format. Do you (or anybody else) have one? Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 12:10, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking for myself, I own a copy of this album; it does have those glasses. I personally have not seen an album without the glasses, and I have no proof that such copies exist, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. If they do exist, which I honestly doubt, then how many of them exist compared to the ones with glasses? Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 07:21, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

text: You're right in trying to steer back the conversation to the original topic. I will admit to losing sight of the original topic a little bit when posting that. Anyways, as I said earlier, I would support the bare cover in the infobox, while the cover with glasses be put elsewhere in the article. But if that isn't what ends up happening, I can respect that. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 08:35, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it's relevant because the cover is supposed to come from the most commonly available version at the time of its release. I'm saying the other image does not accurately reproduce any version of the album. Yes, we can't prove other versions don't exist, but let's see an actual copy before considering anything other than the version we know. Now, back to GMA: This image is treated the same, as the shrinkwrap for this album has a "Tool – 10,000 Days" sticker that's not incorporated into the image I uploaded. I don't understand how you can conclude, without original research, that one must open a flap before the cover is revealed. Why do you call that the cover and not, say, the front of the booklet inside? Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 12:36, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New version cover upload 

message: a few songs still have that early 90s tool feel.
also it says somewhere that danny considers tool an alternative band.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.220.148 (talk) 11:56, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  alternative metal? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: * https://www.revolvermag.com/music/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-tools-10000-days Sergecross73 msg me 16:47, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retrospective source