Talk:Malév Flight 240

message: What are Israel's comments on this? A2Kafir 16:09, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heading 

message: I would clean this article up (add an infobox, etc.), but there are no sources so cleaning up an unsourced article is putting the cart before the horse. Anynobody 08:12, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Crashed my arse, it was either bombed or shot down, there is no amibguity to that, however there is ambiiguity as to whether it was an Israeli act, which it probably was.86.138.254.99 (talk) 18:53, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We need sources to say stuff like that in the article.  (And Israel gets blamed for everything, so I get suspicious of those claims.) A2Kafir (talk) 23:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The british RAF long-range radar at Cyprus saw an F-4 Phantom jet shoot down Malév 240. Only the zionists had the Phantom in the region at that time. Weirdly most of the people killed aboard the Tu-154 were scandinavian business travelers, because Malév was the last airline to still run to Beirut at the time. The jews also shot down a large czech Il-62 quad-jet airliner around that time. 91.83.15.117 (talk) 20:14, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: 91.83: There is no government called "the Jews" - You can say Israel shot down X (if you have reliable sources that say so) - But "the Jews" did not shoot down anything because there is no such government. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:43, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Crashed?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Attempting to share material here on talkpage, to be tabled:
of the passengers,
*Diplomats: UN Observer force, Captain Heeiki Paavola;
Posted to Jordan from Katajanokka, Mauri Krohn
*Angolan National
*Dutch National
*Hungarian National, en route to Baghdad trade fair, working for company called Irodageptechnika V, married with two kids, name:  Glausius Gabor
*French Nationals, four French Sisters in service with Holy Family convent of Beirut, names: Adeline Soucan; Gabriele Giustiniani; Jean Andre Hitier; Marcelien Delaverne
*UK Nationals, Judith Lehmann (relative of Ruth Maidani);
*New Zealand National, Ruth Maidani;
*Saudi Arabia Nationals
*Egyptian Nationals
of the crewmembers, 4 women, 6 men (names available from hirTV or other Hungarian media).
the above was reported on hirTV television broadcast.
On Saturday the 20th of December, 2008, Dutch television broadcaster Nova carried their piece, with some excerpts from the Nemzeti Kulturalis Alaprogram film.
Cyprus-based signals intelligence anonymized sources of Her Britannic Majesty`s RAF, identifier 90280 or RAF Troodos, detected the aircrafts involved in the incident, confirming it had been shot down by two direct hits of heat-seeking missiles from a two-mile intercept range, impacting the tail of the aircraft(as broadcasted on Dutch television in December 2008).
A Statement or declaration attributed to former RAF Navigator Tom Morcross of his participation in the RAF unit dispatched to the scene of the wreckage states that the wreckage was widely dispersed over a wide area due to "explosion".
This assessment has been confirmed by the former Foreign Minister of Finland, Erkki Tuomioja.
:Firstly, thank you for discussing rather than constantly attempting to insert the information.  Now to the crux of the matter - where is your source, or better still where are your multiple sources to confirm all of this?  It's not enough to say "This assessment has been confirmed by the former Foreign Minister of Finland, Erkki Tuomioja" but where did he say this, and to who did he say this?  we need multiple reliable sources to corroborate what you are saying.  Your embedded video is not really a good enough source in that it is non-english and so cannot be verified.  I know that may sound a little unfair to the non-english speaking world, but sources need to be verifiable and this one currently cannot.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 17:45, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the problem is we dont have any "good-quality info" as we are waiting for some reliable sources that we can read for ourselves. Particularly peculiar comments so far, trying to imagine what the Foreign Minister of Finland is doing working with the Royal Air Force and other things that you have said dont add up or contradict themselves or are unlikely. So fairly simple we need reliable independent sources before anything can be added and only if it is neutral and not undue weight. MilborneOne (talk) 19:49, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Also as a comment to the IP - seeing as you're the editor wanting to make and keep the additions the onus is on you - not anybody else - to find sources that satisfy WP:RELIABLE.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 20:25, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  fatalities/survivor list and non-English sources 

message: Are there any Hungarian sources showing Gabor was related to Gábor K killed in a Siemens electric centrifugal propeller electric aeroplane on the 31st of May 2018? Certainly of note if available.126.161.148.209 (talk) 00:15, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: We dont normally list the names of victims unless otherwise noteworthy (that is they have or likely to have a wikipedia article) so it would not be relevant to this article. 15:39, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Having relatives in different accidents is not noteworthy and as far as I can see American Airlines Flight 1 only lists victims with an article. Nobody censors anything but what we do is make sure anything is reliably sourced and has due weight to be included. If you want to add something and it has been challenged then just bring it to this talk page so it can be discussed. But certainly if the Gabors are related it is not noteworthy to this accident as Gabor wouldnt get a mention. MilborneOne (talk) 12:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

text: I have now idea what you are talking about or who Gabor is, but if he is noteworthy enough for a stand-alone article then he can get a mention. MilborneOne (talk) 12:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victim named as Gabor 

message: It is highly suspicious that there is no accountability for this incident despite an Ambassador and a Foreign Minister having been interviewed for television. Additionally, a response team was sent out by the Royal Air Force. It is not so much about blame as it is about transparency and accountability, and the omission of material despite its availability, whether the shooters or their informers (or both) had been entrapped or not does not detract from the facts. It was downed by explosion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.148.209 (talk) 17:57, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you a reliable source for all these alternate theories ? (missile, bomb or something else) An official statement from an Ambassador or a Foreign Minister avaialble. Its unlikely that the Royal Air Force would have said anything in public but do you have a British government press release or similar ? MilborneOne (talk) 17:24, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Crashed ?

message: *short piece on the shootdown of Malev 240 =not verifiable (not enough info such as: author, publisher, date, how can be accessed)
Surely there are more, including MTV Hirado archives, Magyar radio archives, etc, etc. 126.161.177.230 (talk) 17:52, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I tagged your sources from the point of view of verifiability, focusing in the first step only on the possibility of identifying and checking the sources (in cursive). I think only two of them can be used. The next step would be to check their reliability.  WikiHannibal (talk) 20:45, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I was asked to check some info on my talk page. Here's the results: the two Finns on the flight were Veli Heikki Juhani Paavola and Otto Mauri Krohn. Paavola was a UN observer in Golan. Krohn was an engineer working for ILO in Amman. The source is  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Finnusertop (talk • contribs) 13:52, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Omroep NTR

message: I dont see any talk page consensus to add this conspiracy stuff and it addition has been challenged by a number of users. Please note that this article may be protected from editing if further non-consensual changes are made, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 14:58, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Disruptive Editing