Talk:Horse/Archive 3

message: This article truly does need more verifiability.  We need citations.  Please try to add a few as you can.  Follow wikipedia guidelines, I urge everyone to use the   cited material  and   tags so that there is a complete list of footnotes created at the bottom.
Please don't just add good books about horses at the end, add source material we are actually using in the article...some of the books listed are in fact sources, let's use the    tag as needed to insert them into footnotes wherever they are used. Thanks! Montanabw 19:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation

message: I took a picture of a horse with a covered face, see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mammals#Image_of_a_horse_with_covered_face. -- PER9000 16:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a FLY MASK.  I have no clue why they have it on in the winter when there aren't any flies, but that's what it is.  Maybe it is there for some other purpose, but it's actually made of a see-through mesh -- the horse, as you can see from its forward-pricked ears, is obviously looking at something.
Here is an example from a catalogue:  http://www.horse-tack-and-equestrian-clothing.com/fly-masks-fringes-masta-fly-mask-prod1688.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Montanabw (talk • contribs) 19:19, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  See Fly mask. /Per —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.15.169.146 (talk) 12:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with classifying and adding an image 

message: does it cost for one?74.195.9.240 02:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you know where to look, you can actually have a healthy and sociable (but untrained) horse for nothing or close to nothing. Where I am in Virginia there is a farm where the owner is not surprised to wake up and find a new horse in the pasture, because people don't realize how expensive they are to maintain. She then does her best to adopt them out. horsedreamer 19:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How much? 

message: Horses can only sleep lie down for about 2 hours
Forgive me for knowing virtually nothing about horses, but I tried to find my own information on how horses sleep before looking at Wiki (the horror), and I found some stuff on a 'stay apparatus,' but also some things that said that horses don't always sleep standing up. Since I am 95% ignorant on this, it'd be great to see something added about how horses sleep. 71.49.115.125 02:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By popular demand, a section on horses' sleep patterns has been added to the Behavior section of this article. Montanabw 15:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sleeping 

message: Reply to removed comment: please see gymkhana for information on games.Montanabw 14:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  more games 

message: I was checking facts for a science fiction story I'm writing for my Chinese language class (heroine gets out of a tough spot by jumping her horse over a perimeter wall), and found on-line videos of the highest jump ever achieved, 8' 4" (official record 8' 2" because that was the height at the center of the jump).  It's a really amazing video, and also an example of the dangers horses are subjected to in competitions. 
Humans have jumped almost that high in Olympic competitions, but they don't risk breaking their legs or their spine when they jump because they land in soft foam rubber. They jump higher than they did in years past because they don't have to jump so as to protect themselves on landing. Bones in the legs of the jumping horse (Husao) in the video appear to be curved due to the impact of landing. Fortunately they were not bent to the snapping point.  
On another note, entirely hearsay and personal research but interesting, I was talking to a lady who owns an Arabian stallion and she says that if she is in the pasture with the horse and a stranger enters the area her horse will interpose itself between her and the "predator." I've heard of dogs being trained to protect owners, but this is the first time I've heard of a horse doing this kind of thing. 
My Arabian mare, on the other hand, once ran to me for protection when the neighbor's horses got loose and came on our property. That was when I had just purchased her and she was really upset about leaving her home herd for the first time in her life, so I thought that was a pretty remarkable indication that she was bonding with me a little.P0M 03:37, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have jumped 5 foot before. (Anon.)
Eight foot jumps will be pretty rare; seven foot Puissance jumps are not super uncommon,though.  Six feet fences usually discourage the average horse.  I suspect it has a lot to do with innate hierarchical  horse behavior -- based on the horse's perceived position in the herd.  I have seen some geldings act protectively, standing between a weaker horse and a stronger one that is being a bully.  Horses will identify with non-equines as members of their "herd," including humans--you must have been viewed as the dominant herd member.  OTOH, one of my mares chases cats and dogs out of the pasture, for what that's worth.  Montanabw 13:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jumping and defense training 

message: Take a look at:
   P0M 20:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There already is an article evolution of the horse and also horse teeth.Montanabw 23:15, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How about added or making a new article 

message: I found this website, where you can do two different color of horses and learn what their foal will look like! 
(Example: Buckskin (color) sire + Black (horse) dam= Buckskin, Bay (horse), Smoky Black, Black, Palomino, or Chestnut (coat) foal) Brown is not counted as a color, sadly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.16.151.77 (talk) 22:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Equine coat color genetics and Equine coat color.  Brown is genetically indistinguishable (at present) from Bay.  There is some allele that acts on the Agouti gene to darken the coat, but they haven't found it yet. Some people call a Liver Chestnut "Brown" too, but technically a "Brown" horse is a dark bay.  Some people call them "Black Bays" (which is silly, but I guess it sells horses) Montanabw 23:18, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Color Calculator for Horses

message: Is this article ready to become a FAC. I'd say it is. Buc 09:25, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAC? 

message: I have quick-failed this article according to the GA criteria. The main reason for failing the article is for the same reason as Montanabw listed above, lack of inline citations. Entire sections are lacking citations, which needs to be improved on before nominating again. The lead also should better summarize the various sections in the article. The article looks stable, has plenty of images, and covers the broad requirement. Once you have added the inline citations to any statement that a reader may question about its verifiability, then consider renominating again once you look over the criteria again. If you believe that this article is in error, see Wikipedia:Good article review. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page. --Nehrams2020 17:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hate to say it, but I agree.  It is going to be tough to add citations to existing text, it is much easier to add them as you go, but anyone with suitable books with general information can start plugging them in. Montanabw 22:03, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA failed

message: According to Pony Club standards and some showing standards the cut off for a pony is 14.2hh and a horse is 15 hh and above. There is no record of what a horse/pony standing at 14.3 is.
::Your information is incorrect, wherever it comes from.  "Pony" Clubs also allow horses to compete. 14.2 is the classic cutoff, always has been. USEF quite clear on that.  15h is not and never has been a horse/pony cutoff, at least not in the USA or, to the best of my knowledge, the UK.  Also, many horse breeds have individuals under 14.2 who are still classified as horses.  The cutoff for the Western division of the USEF is 14.1. Montanabw 21:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ironically, about the opposite build from a cob an Arabian, which fits "cob" sized tack in the USA.  By the way, there is an article called Cob (horse).  Montanabw(talk) 20:59, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  horse and pony cut offs 

message: I believe there is a mistake in the article.  The horses' birthday in the southern hemisphere is August 1 (not July 1)
:That's also what I had thought. Comparing Google searches for horses birthday July and horses birthday August reveals convincing evidence to support this. I'll update the article. slieschke 06:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age of horses 

message: I believe it is highly offensive to write that Romania is a poor country. This is a fact which has been said on TV in Western World countries for decades, but Romania has improved its economy since then. Besides, not everything said on TV is valid, authentic information. I think a little more research should be done before making such affirmations. The European Union did not consider Romania poor when Romania was accepted as part of the European Union at the beginning of 2007.
::So remove the adjective.  It is still poorer than, say, England, and the only point here is that horses are still used there for real work.Montanabw(talk) 19:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article IS semi-protected for people without a login name. (The page gets a lot of vandalism)  If you think a change is in order, just pop your suggestion here and one of us can put it in for you (if we think it is a good one.) Montanabw(talk) 18:33, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Romania

message: I added a small section, completely sourced, about the undeniable fact of the (in my opinion, weirdness) of some people.  However I think it should be included into the article.  An admin brought up a good point, that it might be a bit much...what do you guys think? Donny417 20:15, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you can already guess my opinion, it's not exactly germaine to the horse article, but certainly fits in the zoophilia or whatever fancy name bestiality has on wikipedia. Generally most humans don't look to horses as the ideal animal for bestiality. In 30 some years with horses, I can't think of any mention of horses as a sexual object for people other than the old chestnut about Catherine the Great. I don't believe it belongs here. Ealdgyth | Talk 20:23, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've found sources that state horses have been used by thousands of people since the age of antiquity.  Why would your "opinion" out weigh all these sources? Donny417 20:26, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not just my opinion, but the opinion of the folks who write the Dog article, the Cow article, the Cat article, the Sheep article, the Goat article and I'm sure other domesticated species. I just checked the animals I could think of off the top of my head that people make jokes about having sex with. If those articles don't see the need to cover human-animal relations in the main article, I can hardly see why the horse article is needing it. It's not a significant factor in horse human relations, honestly. And we're not trying to censor the story, it has it's own article, and I'm not trying to get rid of the zoophilia or whatever article, although I personally find bestiality to be animal abuse. But Wikipedia isn't censored, so I don't censor it. Ealdgyth | Talk 20:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

text: You will not be surprised that I agree with Ealdgyth and Martin on this. Zoophilia has its own article.  It covers the topic thoroughly.  What we are describing are human behavioral quirks and your sources all address human decisions and not any propensity of the animals involved.  Montanabw(talk) 21:07, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: added sexual fulfillment

message: I tossed the merge tag on respiratory system of the horse for two compelling reasons:  First off, this main Horse article is already very, very long.  Second, the horse anatomy article was broken out from this one per wiki guidelines quite some time back.  Third, the respiratory system article (and circulatory system, and skeletal system and muscular system AND equine vision) was broken out from the horse anatomy article because it also was also getting very long.  In short, wiki guidelines suggest that complex articles do better when relevant sections are broken out into new articles.  The last thing the Horse article needs is stuff merged back into it!  That said, I did add more wikilinks and see also headings to help people find these articles more easily and did a little bit of rearranging of some sections so that they were more logically placed instead of being a mishmash. Montanabw(talk) 16:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No merger 

message: In the Odd-toed ungulates article it states that there are 9 species in the Equidae family whereas in the Horse article it states that there are ten. I'm not sure which is correct, otherwise I would have amended it myself.
Joey 23:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You know, I don't have much  background in taxonomy, that is a very good question and it would be good to have both articles contain the correct information.  I suggest matching horse to equidae, and anyone who disagrees can fix both articles with a source.  Go ahead and make the fix if you'd like. Montanabw(talk) 03:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many in horse genus? 

message: This is one of several articles that has a WikiProject Tree of Life banner in addition to the WikiProject Mammals banner.  Is this really necessary?--Doug.(talk • contribs) 04:30, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure what to think on that one, maybe ask the tree of life crowd.  If mammals is a subsection of tree of life, then I'd agree.  If it's a different deal, them maybe restore it.  Beats me, these projects seem to just sort of hang out there wich much discussion and little actual article improvement, IMHO.  (Says the very cynical "leader" of WikiProject Horse training). Montanabw(talk) 18:22, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tree of Life is sort of a "super project", they have the basic templates for taxoboxes and have developed colors for the different Kindoms and Phyla, etc., among other things.  My understanding is that most of the editing is done by the sub projects which go down, down, down through several layers just to get to Mammals, Birds, etc.  I was bold and removed it.  Overtagging is a problem though, you don't want to scroll down just to get to the TOC.  If someone thinks it needs to be here, they can put it back, though I think a duplicative tag like that would deserve discussion.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 03:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do we really need Tree of Life's banner? 

message: In some cultures the eating of horses is introduced as a delicasy, but in the United States it is illegal to eat horse in 7 states. These include Alabama, California, Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Oklahoma, South Carolina.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbmoore (talk • contribs) 16:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The ancient Celts did not eat horse meat, horses were sacred to them. http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodireland.html -  Culnacréann 00:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can this conversation just move to the horsemeat article?  Montanabw(talk) 17:06, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cutural Differences 

message: There is now a proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Horses for a project which would deal with all articles related to horses. It would however primarily limit itself to those articles which are not currently within the scope of any other active project. Anyone who might be interested in seeing such a project become a reality should indicate their interest there. Thank you. John Carter 20:55, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone else created Wikipedia:WikiProject Equine and did quite a bit of work on it.  I've joined it, trying to improve it but I haven't worked on Category creation much, give it a look-see and see what can be done to improve it. Montanabw(talk) 08:01, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed general "Horse" WikiProject