Talk:Basic fighter maneuvers

message: ...also known as boom and zoom, or zoom and boom. The article needs to discuss this tactic, wherein the fighter trades altitude for speed to attack a lower-altitude enemy, and immediately after contact climbs once again to regain altitude. Make one pass, do as much damage as possible, and get away. Repeat as necessary. Binksternet (talk) 00:46, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely. I'm still working on expanding this article, and my time is very limited, but any help is appreciated. I'll go through my sources as soon as I can. So far I've been working on the basics. Many maneuvers are used more in training than in combat, but there are many useful maneuvers still not listed her and a dive attack followed by a zoom climb is definitely one. Others include spiral dives, sandwich turns, wingovers, etc ... Zaereth (talk) 02:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added this info. Since positioning is improtant for setting up such an attack, I've expanded, and corrected that section as well. I've also expanded the Immelmann and split-s sections, since this is the type of attack which those are used to set up. I'll try to get a few more maneuvers listed, and maybe a section on out-of-plane maneuvers before I'll consider myself finished here. Hope that helped. Zaereth (talk) 21:08, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dive and zoom 

message: As titled (153.219.41.227 (talk) 14:30, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The combat spread begins as a formation, but is quite a bit more dynamic than that during an engagement. It provides the basic building block for loose-deuce maneuvering or finger-four maneuvers, and is typically the first maneuver taught to pilots. Zaereth (talk) 21:00, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combat Spread is a formation, not a maneuver.  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In both types of flow, the closest possible merge is desirable to keep the enemy at an angular disadvantage.
They can't both be minimizing the same shared parameter, each to their own separate advantage. — MaxEnt 14:52, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi MaxEnt. Not sure exactly what you're saying. That's found in the source. If I'm flying straight at you, and you try and go wide so you can get around me, you've lost the angular advantage and given it to me. If, however, we both head straight for each other, we're both in a neutral position with neither having the advantage (both at a disadvantage). The closer we merge, the less chance that you will be able to turn at the last second and put a shot into my side. More importantly, if we merge wide, during one-circle flow our fighter's minimum turn-radius won't count for much (the wider your merge; the more the advantage goes to the plane on the outside of the turn), while in two-circle flow, the craft's maximum turn-rate won't be of much help either (upon completing your turn, we'll still be too wide and will both have to straighten out to compensate). The idea is to start out with both flight paths as closely in sync as possible. Zaereth (talk) 17:08, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symmetry violation 

message: The text being added to this article has for the most part been incorrect. There is no need to remove any sourced info, epecially if the source is the US Naval Air Training Command, which by all accounts are experts in this field. "Energy package" is a common term used in this field. It's jargon which is why it's explained to the readers, but it's a term they will encounter when reading the sources and should be explained here.
  https://web.archive.org/web/20140318134651/http://navyflightmanuals.tpub.com/P-821/P-8210201.htm
I'll quote the text, in case it's too hard to click the link, "Total Energy (TE) is the combination of the aircraft's Potential Energy (PE)(function of aircraft altitude) and Kinetic Energy (KE)(function of airspeed). TE will be referred to as your "energy package" and will vary according to your situation.... The aircrew that best manages its energy package often gains the tactical advantage. Although determining the total energy advantage for a tactical scenario is difficult because of possible speed differences between aircraft, total energy remains a vital factor for determining relative advantage. As you gain experience in BFM, you will soon learn to judge the energy package of your adversary."
This info is well cited and there for anyone to see. So is the info on the Lufbery. It's right there in the source, and is one of the first things they teach you in flight school. The Lufbery Circle is not a basic fighter maneuver, but rather belongs in the ACM article. It's basically corralling the wagons and hoping the enemy will leave before you run out of fuel. Zaereth (talk) 23:55, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Specific energy and Lufbery