Talk:Valentina Lisitsa

message: The modern day  Saint Hildegard Von Bingen.
What... you're implying that she's talentless, fakes her videos and has gathered a following of teen-boppers who have an IQ of 10 or lower???
How about you give her a proper title for goodness sake, instead of slapping 'Biebers' name into this article. She is a world-class pianist with power and drive unlike many other pianists on YouTube, and he's a pathetic troll who fools gullible teenagers into thinking that he is the epitome of the music industry, when all he does is lip-synch. 
She deserves more class than this for goodness sake. That makes me sick.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.161.68.96 (talk) 14:00, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  the 'Justin Bieber of classical music'??? 

message: Reason for not having a date of birth? Lack of sources? Shady sources?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lightpuma (talk • contribs) 09:26, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of Birth? 

message: I am creating this section as a placeholder for discussion of how to reference the topic in this article. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia Talk pages are for discussion of the article, not for the airing of views on the controversy itself. Let's all try to reach a consensus instead of reverting each other's edits.MisterCSharp (talk) 14:57, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem was (I hope my last edits ended it) that a few user did strayed away from sources and added their own interpretations of her tweets and what the tweets were suposed trying to do. Classic wp:or; wp:or always best avoided of course. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:52, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe the page should be protected from editing by unregistered and new users.MisterCSharp (talk) 11:25, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but when I tried to do that (on an other wikipedia-page) some time ago I was informed the problem had to become really big before they could do that.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

text: I would say not... since this source has no "reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" (see wp:SOURCES). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tweaked the section a bit, although I've no doubt it will be changed by the pianist's defenders. From what I've seen, there is no evidence VL's remarks were anti-Semitic, she was accusing the Ukrainian government of that. But her use of Holocaust imagery could lead people who look a pictures and don't read context to believe otherwise.MisterCSharp (talk) 11:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

text: *Reverted . Here is the problem. I can see the sources (,), but they do not really support the claims and the tone. Something can be added, but only if neutrally written and compliant with WP:BLP. My very best wishes (talk) 21:38, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I can see it , however Wikipedia is not EuromaidanPress, but encyclopedia. Please pay attention how the story has been described in sources other than EuromaidanPress (three links above, such as this). This is the way a professional journalist describes the story. It can be described here this way, as opposed to propaganda. My very best wishes (talk) 04:14, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Toronto/Tweet Controversy

message: "as well as RACIST, ANTI-SEMITIC  remarks"
That's just disingenuous anti-Russian propaganda speaking. What did she say racist or antisemtic?
Like most Russians, Valentina is anti-fascist. Which cannot be said for most Ukrianians, who are not so secret nazi sympathizers.
See http://i.imgur.com/IOHtafB.jpg --74.57.167.219 (talk) 15:23, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You have already been informed not to use Wikipedia talkpages for wp:soapboxing but for discussing improvements to articles only. So stop doing this, and get better informed about what you write about... by start reading this BBC article. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:28, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Off-topic chat

message: Re . If the issue is that the separatists are described as "pro-Russian separatists" then let's not pretend that this about the source, as pretty much that's how all reliable sources refer to them. So how about not making irrelevant excuses for removing relevant text? Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:23, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  pro-Russian separatists  

message: Hello friends. After reading the article and comments, I'm afraid it's hard for me not to conclude that this article is rather biased against Ms. Lisitsa. For one thing, all of the second- and third-party comments cited in the article are from sources critical of Ms. Lisitsa. A few moments search on the Internet, however, shows that she also has a number of reasonable defenders as well:
http://swedhr.org/we-defend-valentina-lisitsas-freedom-of-speech-on-ukraines-hr-violations/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalmusic/11535562/Censoring-Valentina-Lisitsa-shames-the-Toronto-Symphony-Orchestra.html
http://professorsblogg.com/2015/11/02/facts-and-libel-in-the-international-campaign-vs-valentina-lisitsa-analysis/
etc. etc.
Further, while it is true that her alleged Tweets and the like were vulgar, it is also easy to find similar comments made by the other side, meaning the Ukrainian nationalists. Yet only the controversy over Ms. Lisitsa's comments is mentioned. Moreover, I agree that this comments page is to be used for discussion of the article and not for promotion of one side of the controversy. However, we must also remember that Ms. Lisitsa's comments and those of her detractors have been made in the context not only of the Toronto cancellation but the larger issue of a highly charged war in which people have been killed. Tempers are hot on both sides of this larger issue, and this is the background which authors of this article should keep in mind in deciding what content to include and what content to omit. I suggest that, in its present form, this article is highly biased against Ms. Lisitsa.  Gunnermanz (talk) 14:27, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all.  The article is focused, NPOV, completely unbiased. 98.67.0.138 (talk) 11:48, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Suspicion of Bias

message: Recently, she gave a concert in Crimea. I think this is relevant for the article, given the political situation. Chaptagai (talk) 14:55, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concert on the Crimea peninsula 

message: Caption: Valentina Lisitsa beside a piano
Really? Thanks for telling me! I thought that might be an espresso maker.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:643:8104:730:517C:B2FC:F287:EE03 (talk) 03:23, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia photo 

message: This is a blunder!  Needs to be a section on reviews of her work. Some of it has been praised, some of it seen as too brutal/hard for the music.  A balanced look should be included. 50.111.19.2 (talk) 06:30, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a great idea. Let's do it. We normally use titles like "Reception" or "Assessment" for that type of material. Do you have any references? Burrobert (talk) 07:29, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  missing Critical Reception 

message: A user recently changed Valentina Lisitsa's birthdate from 11 December to 25 March without a source for the change. I haven't reverted the change because I can't access the source for the original date. Also, looking through Lisitsa's social media postings, she has clearly stated that 11 December is not her birthdate. Any thoughts on a way forward? Burrobert (talk) 07:49, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthdate 

message: After attacking the Ukrainian president/supporting the recent invasion with some pretty disturbing posts.  If she's started a new one, I can't find it?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.36.47 (talk) 11:12, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Lisitsa has previously supported Russia's position on Ukraine and criticised Western interference within Ukraine. It would not therefore be surprising if she commented on the current situation. The twitter account that is displayed at the bottom of her wiki bio is still open but her posts cannot be viewed. She has not listed a twitter account on her home page. She has however provided her Facebook, VK and Instagram accounts. There was no comment about the political situation in her VK or Facebook accounts. She has not posted to her VK account since 2018 but did post on Facebook on 12 February 2022. I have not seen anything in the media. Burrobert (talk) 15:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: deleted her Twitter acct

message: Editors may be aware that an issue arose in 2015 with regards to Lisitsa's criticism of the Ukraine government and support for pro-Russia separatists in eastern Ukraine. The issue was covered in numerous media outlets and resulted in the cancellation of her concerts in Toronto that year. We have included quite a lot of criticism of her in the article but readers may be confused about what it all means since we hardly mention her views. Ideally, we should expand the politics section to tell readers what she has said. However, despite her strong views about Ukraine, she is best known for her amazing musical talent and it would be a shame to detract from that by overemphasising the politics. Does anyone have views on this? Regarding some recent to-ing and fro-ing in the lead, does anyone have an opinion on whether the view of The Ukrainian Weekly merits a mention in the lead? Burrobert (talk) 17:04, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: She is best known for her hate speech and for the twitter controversy that ended her North American career. She is not a particularly well known or notable musician, despite her big Youtube following. This is not a fan site. The Toronto Globe and other RS report that it was Ukrainian public outcry that led to her being marginalized. Please read the sources. SPECIFICO talk 17:42, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have sources that say the Twitter controversy ended her North American career, they will be quite helpful to the article. Your personal opinion that it did so is not helpful especially since sources like  only mention the TSO cancellation and specifically note other Canadian appearances went ahead as planned. (It does mention that the executive directory of Toronto’s Royal Conservatory of Music probably wouldn't book her today, but this is after she went on to play there after the controversy.) Nil Einne (talk) 08:03, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  I believe Nil Einne is correct in saying that Valentina has played in Toronto since 2015. I have not made a thorough search but this source says she played at the The Royal Conservatory of Music's Koerner Hall in April 2016 and, possibly pointedly, played an all-Russian programme. Burrobert (talk) 10:37, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

text: As follow-up to the BLPN discussion, I've reduced the amount of detail that were cited to WP:RSOPINION that was added after the discussion despite my previous WP:UNDUE concern. Morbidthoughts (talk) 06:09, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lisitsa's politics 

message: The subject is too difficult for me. She allegedly praized shooting down MH17.https://nltimes.nl/2015/08/28/klm-bans-pianist-allegedly-praised-shooting-mh17 Still the KLM banned her recordings. Xx236 (talk) 08:31, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The article does not say she praised the shooting down of MH17. It does say that someone else said she said it. A bit convoluted. Note that "the complaint comes from an action group that opposes the pianist". It seems to be related to her support,which we already mention, for separatists in eastern Ukraine, which has obviously upset some people. We already mention that she believes the Ukraine government has Nazi characteristics. We would need to be careful about how we include any of this in the article but could say that in 2015 KLM removed her music from its playlists after receiving a complaint from an action group that opposes Valentina. Is it noteworthy? Burrobert (talk) 08:51, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not know, but this may help https://euromaidanpress.com/2015/08/30/klm-cancels-lisitsa-my-story-of-fighting-hate-and-war-promotion/ Xx236 (talk) 09:07, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Alexander Zakharchenko was a DPR leader, not involved directly in MH17 shooting down.Xx236 (talk) 09:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is from the person mentioned in the earlier article who made the complaint to KLM. She does clarify that Valentina did not celebrated the downing of MH17. It is an interesting opinion piece but not useful by itself. Burrobert (talk) 09:50, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[MH17]] 

message: See this article about the incident with Young.. Do we have useful content there? SPECIFICO talk 21:46, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:NYPOST. Is there more reliable coverage of this incident? Morbidthoughts (talk) 22:44, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure. Young was rather an erratic figure in his own right. SPECIFICO talk 23:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Bell Young controversy