Talk:MOCHIP

message: MOCHIP was re-edited so as to not violate copyright.  I hope this satisfies.  It is not advertising, just defining something that has become a massive part of out state since the abductions earlier this year...I'm sure you remember seeing it in the news.
:The text is still lifted nearly verbatim from the source so it has been deleted again.  Beyond that, you need to provide some sort of evidence that this is a notable program; multiple non-trivial news coverage in publications that would be considered a reliable source would help.--Isotope23 13:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

message: Here are but 3 of very many MOCHIP media examples to prove this is extremely program does exist.  I certainly hope this allows me to publish this definition once and for all to those who look it up.
MOCHIP media 1
MOCHIP media 2
MOCHIP media 3
MOCHIP Home Page
Let me know if this is not sufficientJokerst44 14:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this probably could serve as the start for an article about the CHIP program in general, but leaving it focused on just one state is too narrow, in my opinion.  Additionally, and I may be wrong on this, but I think the CHIP program started in Massachusetts.  I'd suggest turning this article into "CHIP-Child Identification Program" and discussing (with cites) the history of its rise, and where it has spread.  Some data regarding number of families served, any cases where CHIP kits have been used in missing child cases, and successes of the same.--Vidkun 01:42, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: One source on PART of Massachusetts's conbtribution (the toothprints) http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKX/is_2_72/ai_99988045 --Vidkun 01:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MOCHIP media examples 

message: You should not change this to a CHIP only article. The CHIP programs are NOT related. They are similar in vision and goal, but they operate differently and independently. Meshing them together would be a disservice and dis-information. This article is about MOCHIP and independent program operating under the supervision of the Missouri Masonic Childrens Foundation.  Jokerst44 02:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course they operate independently, considering all the GL's are independe4nt.  But a state level one like this is then not notable enough for an entire article, which was why I suggested an article about the concept of the CHIP program, and then history blurbs and information about each state's version.  I'm of the opinion that that would be a better encyclopedic article, but obviously you disagree.  Whatever.--Vidkun 09:47, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm challenging this statement: The CHIP programs are NOT related.  Let's see:  Masonic Organization conducts a childhood identification program that includes photographs, interviews, fingerprints and dental prints, to be used by families in case there is ever a missing child issue.  It's done by MANY US GL's, the fact that they don't all use the exact same way of getting the informations/items is incidental.  Hwo can you say they aren't related?--Vidkun 14:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You say that MANY US GL's do this??  How many is "many"??  I can tell you it is only done in 6 states at this time.  NO, they are not related.  They use similar principles and visions, but related, no.  Related would assume they have some accountability to each other, as if under an umbrella, and they do not.  Each GL operates their ID program under different standards and guidlines, this is NOT incidental...it is indeed a fundamental difference.  Just because McDonalds and Burger King both sell burgers, and are considered "fast food", does not mean the companies are related, thus different names.  Just like each state has different name for its version of Child ID.  As a side note, Illinois is actually maintaining all of the information they collect.  Missouri and most other states purge all information after each event..not an incidental difference.  For some reason you don't like what I'm saying.  But in all seriousness, call up the GL of a state that has a Child ID program and ask them if their program is related to any other state.  They will claim complete autonomy and most likely go on to explain why theirs is the "best".  This is not the same as an appendant body in Freemasonry.  I personally wish each state did answer to a higher authority, it would lend credibility and each state would operate the same.  I think enough has been said about this. Jokerst44 15:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For some reason you don't like what I'm saying. No, you seem to be insisting on reading personal offense into my suggesting that a larger umbrella article would be better.  Organizations and activities don't need accountability to each other to be related.  You sure are getting heated about "your" article.--Vidkun 15:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Am I getting "heated"?  I guess that depends on how you define it.  But I see people get "heated" on here for many things.  If heated means responding to your comments, then indeed I am getting "heated" and what would you expect?  But if "heated" is a derogatory remark directed at me, I suggest you stop.   Jokerst44 15:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, heated is not a derogatory remark.  It's my opinion that you are taking personal offense at my criticism of the article.  I'm trying to make a better encyclopedia, and one way of doing that is suggesting that small groups/organizations (such as state wide ones) would be better served by an umbrella article descrbing the concept of the program, where it started, and what the evolution was, with seperate state by state subsections.  I realize you went into an awful lot of work on this article, and I'm sorry if my comments hurt you, but they shouldn't:  they are directed at the content of the article, not you.--Vidkun 15:39, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I would like to see this "National Directors" name my friend.  I promise you there is no National Director for this specific ID program.  It is hard for my GL to be wrong when I know how it operates intimately.  Yes I am aware and involved in state and regional(within Missouri) hierarchy, but not national.  Please show me the name of this National Director, and I will start answering to him because thus far I have not been.  MOCHIP operates on a State directed level only.  It is hard for our GL to be "wrong", when they started it in this state.   Again, do your best to find me the name of the "National Director" that the MOCHIP program is accountable to.  Jokerst44 16:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here you go - http://www.ctchip.org/links.php MASONIC CHIP Support Committee: In February 2004 the Conference of Grand Masters of Masons in North America, formally recognized the need to support a methodical generation of identifying items for parents to keep on hand as a safeguard, and then in the event of a missing child, turned over to law enforcement agencies as an aid in recovery and identification. By a vote of 54 out of 58 Grand Masters present, a standing committee was formed known as the MASONIC CHIP SUPPORT COMMITTEE (MCSC). http://www.masonichip.org/ Masonic Child Identification Support Committee of the Conference of Grand Masters of Masons in North America.  30 seconds on google found that.  Oh, look, your OWN program links to it:  http://www.mochip.org/links.php --Vidkun 16:41, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad Idea 

message: How about we have a little respect for each other and drop this infighting.  I know how our program operates because I work it daily to prepare for weekend events.  If someone wants to debate it, fine, just please make sure the facts are interpreted accurately.  I don't have time to keep up this debate.  And if Fraternal regards are due...peace.  May the GAOTU guide us in our endeavors.  Jokerst44 17:20, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finished 

message: More local news articles:
*"Identification program provides parents with piece of mind"
*"MOCHIP program aids in tracking lost children"
*"Kids and their parents check out MoCHIPS Saturday"
*"Freemasons offer free child identification kit"
*"Families participate in free child-identification program"
*"Program helps ID Missouri youth"
*"MO CHIP Events Saturday Help Parents"
*"Parents get child ID kits at Cape movie theater"
--A. B. (talk) 03:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some references 

message: Per AFD, this should be merged with MasoniCHIP. Luigi30 (Taλk) 17:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: AFD over