Talk:Montenegro/Archive 1

message: I doubt Germany and the EU formally allow Montenegro to use Euro as an official curency
:*currency: euro - even though Montenegro is not part of the Eurozone, it uses the euro after Germany and the EU allowed it to use the German mark years ago. Now, since the German mark was superceded by the euro, the euro is the official currency of Montenegro.
::They'd have to formally allow Montenegro use the Euro.  Since Montenegro is buying the banknotes from Germany; if Germany didn't want to sell them they wouldn't. Ironcorona 02:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How do they buy their banknotes and coins from Germany?  Anyone could buy euros from any commercial bank or exchange office in Sweden (and I guess also in Germany), although it might take some extra time if you want to buy a very large amount of money.  Do they have some kind of agreement with the German central bank? (Stefan2 05:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously, anyone can USE the Euro, the Swiss Franc, or the US Dollar, and many countries do so de facto if not de jure.  Some go so far as to declare one of these their official currency.  What they can't (without really asking for trouble) do without the EU's permission, is print/coin Euros. The Monster 00:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: euro

message: I know Serbia and Montenegro is currenct SCG...but is there an existing or planned code for Montenegro? Would it be CGR..? Or is this just idle speculation? doktorb | words 17:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally idle speculation at this point, but I have to confess to doing some checking on my own.  To the best of my knowledge, nothing has been set or reserved. There are a fair number of available three-letter options that compress either Montenegro or Crna Gora.  Two-letter options (for things like a ccTLD) are where there are real problems.  "ME" is the only combination of "M" with a letter from "ontenegro" that is available, while there are no available combinations of "C" and something from "rna Gora". The Tom 19:09, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  IOC / UN Code 

message: There is a vote on Wikipedia to see whether Wikipedians believe Montenegro should be independent or not. The vote can be accessed at Wikipedian Vote for Montenegrin Independence.
:Wikipedia is not a polling organization.  This is inappropriate. --Macrakis 15:35, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedian Vote for Montenegrin Independence 

message: Hello!  Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring – and with the hope of resolving this issue –  you might be interested in a poll currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article.  Please weigh in! Bitola | talk | 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Talk:Republic of Macedonia#POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article|POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article]] 

message: No argumet!!! please dont inteprete the documents 
Sombody have putit this Kosovo place in Serbia stub or category or template here with out argumet. We dont have a argumet that Kosovo is part of S/M. We have tha Constitution of this countrie but we have the rez. 1244 wich is more importen for the Wikipedia and is saying that Kosovo it is a part of Yougoslavia and is prototoriat of UN. Till we dont have a clearly argument from UN, aricel about Kosovo must be out of this stub or category or template. Pleas dont make the discution with intepretation or the Law wich are not accordin to 1244. Everybodoy can do that but that is nothing for Wikipedia.--Hipi Zhdripi 06:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No argumet 

message: How would you pronounce it in English? Crena Gora?
Petrovic-Njegos 13:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ['tsr.na 'go.ra], more or less. The "cr" part is its own syllable. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 20:40, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crna Gora 

message: POV-pushing and predicting is not to be conducted on wikipedia. --HolyRomanEmperor 12:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hmm... 

message: Politics and Culture. Politics of Montenegro and Culture of Montenegro. Skinnyweed 15:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This article does not look like a complete article for an independent country right now. (Economy is also missing.) And same goes for the Serbia article. -- ran (talk) 07:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed new sections 

message: The latest update is that the Independence movement won 55.5 % of the electorate. According to Koha Ditore (Daily Times), the 55% threshold was passed by only 2000 votes, which also was the number of Albanians that came from all over the US to vote for the Independence. I think this fact is significant and should be noted.Ferick 15:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Albanian Contribution

message: I have a small question: Which script (aplhabet) is used in Monte Negro? I have visited internet pages of the Pobjeda (or Победа?) news [www.pobjeda.cg.yu] and those are written in Latin but titeled in Cyrilic. There is also picture of printed version and it is in Cyrilic. I'm little puzzled. Probably very easy question for some Montenegrin. Thx
Đonny 22:18, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While we're awaiting an authoritative answer, it's worth noting that the website of the Government of Montenegro seems to be exclusively in Latin script (whereas that of the Government of Serbia is available in both scripts but defaults to Cyrillic.) Vilĉjo 23:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd rather go with the latin script for the Montenegrin language, because cyrillic is kind of confusing. Duke Nicholas 02:25, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have a look at this, it's the actual ПОБЈЕДА title-page, in Cyrillic. What the hell is going on? Which alphabet do they use? +Hexagon1 (talk)   10:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

text: *To add to that, it might look strange, however,if you know both scripts, just like about everyone in Montenegro, you don't really pay much attention if the scripts are mixed. That is why noone noticed, or cared, that internet version of Pobjeda (not Pobeda as you quoted) is written in latin script with the letterhead in Cyrillic. I even possess an old birth certificate, where the form itself is in latin and the data typed in with Cyrillic letters. Most Montenegrins like me feel richer for knowing and using both scripts, and see nothing wrong in that. Momisan 22:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Montenegrian script? 

message: why is this still mentioned? it should be changed by now:
Montenegro [ˈmɔntɛˌnɛːgrɔ] (Montenegrin: Crna Gora) is a republic in the Balkans, currently one of the two constituent states of the state union of Serbia and Montenegro.
--Makedonia 22:28, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's there because it's true. Montenegro is not yet independent.  Don't worry.  We'll know when it is.The Tom 22:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now it's independant.Cameron Nedland 17:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  why? 

message: Do the links to tourism guides contribute towards a goal of writing an encyclopedia? Andjam 13:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dunno; personally I find them useful, but it may contradict with the policy. What's the practice on other articles? (Malta, Cyprus etc.) Duja 14:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tourism external links 

message: SLOBODA ...
This is what we wanted.... Our own counrty . Montenegro has its own history away from Serbia and the rest of the former Yugoslavia. Montenegrins were the first Slavs to reach the Adriatic in the 6th Century and the Croats and Serbs followed much later in the 7th Century. We have every right to have our own new counrty. We have been there a long time. 
In time we will be ok alone...it will take time.
RE Boka people..this is open to debate..are they Serb?? are they Croat???...that was ancient history...today Boka is Montenegrin and so are the people...Please don't devide our people with ancient origins. If you look back enough we all came from Africa or Adama and Eve right... We don't need Serb or Croat Pov here thanks..
Evergreen Montenegro1 05:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait a minute. Who says I'm Albanian? I am partially Albanian, only a little part (like 5%!!!). But I am mostly Montenegrin (About 95%!!!) Look, I mostly write about Montenegro. Look at the articles I've created. Also, Montenegrins don't have to be Eastern Orthodox to be ethnically Montenegrin. I am ethnically Montenegrin but I am not of Eastern Orthodoxy.   Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 19:17, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: CrnaGora, are you going to set up a Montenegrin language version of Wikipedia? - Phil 22:31, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Trying to, but so many Serbs are opposing it. You can see it on meta:Requests for new languages.   Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 23:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Or rather not enough people are supporting it :-) Only 9 at the moment. - Phil 23:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually 11 if you count the votes.   Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 23:39, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes you are correct I was only looking at the headers. My mistake. - Phil 00:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  SLOW BODA  

message: Montenegrin parliament today at 20.00 proclaimed Indipendent state of Montenegro - it is official! I hope that now people won't revert page to earlier "Serbia and Montenegro" version, because it cannot anymore be justified by reason "idnependence not declared" and "results of referendum not official".
Possible reason by nostalgic people might be "not internationally recgognized", but that fact does not put Montenegro back to Serbia and Montenegro. No more excuses... Nije bitno... 19:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the wording of the first paragraph. I changed "republic in the Balkans" to "country in the Balkans" this is the usual wording in almost all European country articles. And it helps to prevent confusion about Montenegro being an independent country now and its former status a republic in Yugoslavia / Serbia-Montenegro.
--84.153.55.216 19:17, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Officially independent

message: Now that the Montenegrin parliament has officially proclaimed the independence of Montenegro, may other countries already start recognizing it? I suggest the creation of an article containing a list of countries as they recognize Montenegro. I've seen that before for other newborn countries.
Sure.
See here for the first mention in the article of Montenegro being internationally recognized.  I've been browsing the State Department website to see when the U.S. will recognize CG, but I can't find anything. -Fsotrain09 19:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recognition of Independence 

message: it's no newer than Serbia.
:Serbia is a successor state, which can tie its international legal personality back to the initial Yugoslav breakup or thereabouts The Tom 04:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Serbia may be a successor state, after all it where the Capital was. But it is still new nonetheless.--Greasysteve13 09:41, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not recognized as such by the UN or the US. The Secretary of Funk 06:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, it is. Serbia is the legal successor of the FRY, so it dates back to the breakup of the SFRY. —Nightstallion (?) 20:06, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The BBC says Serbia will declair it's independence next week http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5043462.stm. I'm assuming that means Serbia and Montenegro officially still exist even though Montenegro is gone kind of like the USSR existed officially for a while even though all the republics had declaired indepedence. So I withdrawl my complaint, Montenegro is the newest country but soon Serbia will be. Does anyone know that that's wrong? As to Serbia being the successor of Serbia and Montenegro, first of all, as I just said, Serbia and Montenegro might still exist, and even if it doesn't, has there even been time to offically designate it as the successor? Has the UN said anything? The US and UN didn't recognize the FRY as the successor to the SFRY. The Secretary of Funk 08:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: sighs No, simply *no*. Serbia and Montenegro is the legal successor to the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, as it was just a name-change, and in the constitution of SiM, Serbia is *officially* the legal successor to SiM and inherits the membership in all international organisations, all treaties, and so on. So *yes*, Montenegro *is* the newest country in the world, and will remain so until Kosovo becomes independent. SiM does not exist any longer, it's just a matter of Serbia recognising that officially. —Nightstallion (?) 09:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I accept your point about succession, I didn't know it was in the constitution. Serbia should be recognized as the world's newest country though. They just declaired independence, why did that word even come up if it was just "recognizing that officially"? It was both. There's a discussion in the talk section of Serbia, I'm sure you've already read, it was pointed out that even though Russia is the successor of the USSR it is not said that the Russian Federation was founded in 1917. Also, the president of Serbia and Montenegro didn't resign until Sunday, the day after independence. Montenergo is sighs *not* the world's newest country. The Secretary of Funk 01:10, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They didn't declare independence. They accepted the dissolution of SiM. I don't know what news reports you've been reading. —Nightstallion (?) 13:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well for one thing it says they declared independence on the front page of wikipedia! Look at the BBC article I already linked, it says independence too. Just about every other ariticle as well. Now you're just denying reality. The Secretary of Funk 21:32, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I know international law. This is not independence, this is just a namechange from "Serbia and Montenegro" to "Serbia", period. —Nightstallion (?) 05:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Well most of the people here disagree with you. References to Serbia declaring independence are all over the place and no one has been trying to remove them. It must be hard being the only person who knows international law. You should work for the BBC, you could straighten those people out. The Secretary of Funk 09:32, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  World's newest country? 

message: This is the "First" time i heard that Bosnia is claiming Boka region in Montenegro.
Good luck hahhaa Bosnia can claim Boka like a Bosnian can claim inventing Pizza.
No chance. 1,0000000 to 1 chance.
Boka region was once part of Croatia and had a big Croat population prior to 1910. Today things have changed and Croats are long gone and in came the Serbs....and lest we forget Montenegrings have always been there.
So I can't see Bosnia claiming Boka in anyway.
Unless maybe they are saying Bosnian Croats.....well thats another long debate....
Evergreen Montenegro1 06:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosanska Boka ????

message: CrnaGora im not talking about "ethnic" Montenegrins...but im talking abpout real Montenegrins before 1918....in the time of King Nikola and Petar Petrovic Njegos 1 & 2. That are real Montenegrins that brought my beautiful land like we know it now.
You say you're just 5% Albanian. Succes but it's not possible to be just only 5% Albanian. 
Or one of both of your parents are albanian. You can only be or 100% albanian (living in Montenegro) or 75% or 50% or 25% but not 5%.
That your most articles goes about Montenegro that doesn't mather. I can write a lot of propaganda about albania in the wikipedia about albania but that don't make me albanian.
Im sorry to say but for most Montenegrin people you be still and for always an siptar.
: Inaccurate, ill-mannered and offensive. Montenegrins do not use a Serbian derogatory term 'siptar' for Albanians. They use the term 'Malisor' - meaning a highlander. Montenegrins and Malisors have very similar customs and ethics and by and large respect each other enormously, as equals. This coming from a true-blue Montenegrin. --user 11 August 2006.
Even another subject:
When Montenegro (21 may 2006) became indenpendance there where siptars (they say they're Montenegrin) celebrating Montenegrins independance with albanian flags!!!??? Sorry but what the f**k does albanians and theyre flags have with Montenegrin victory?! Celebrating is good with only Montenegrin flags but not with siptar and albanian flags. Thats not acceptable.....you can see it like claming Plav and Ulcinj. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.126.152.198 (talk • contribs) 19:36, 6 June 2006
:That is not on the topic, Wikipedia is not a free exchange of ideas. Any further off-topic subjects will be DELETED. Wikipedia is not a medium for unregulated free-speech, it has never been and never claimed to have been. Also I must ask for all contributions to this page to be in English from now on. Visit here to contribute in Serbian. Thank you. +Hexagon1 (t) 10:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Reading your post, I don't see anything that could be taken as constructive critique of the article, just irrelevant personal attacks. This is a Wiki, if you don't like something, change it. If the change is according to the rules, and if it is of superior quality then the previous text, we'll keep it. And sign your posts using four tildes '~~~~'. Like this: +Hexagon1 (t) 11:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh for crying out loud... I give up. +Hexagon1 (t) 11:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Subject

message: I added a link to the article concerning the foreign relations of Montenegro, where I just included a table listing the countries that have granted recognition to Montenegro. So far only Iceland has. As the recognitions increase, please help me keeping the table up-to-date.
:So far, 2 more countries and counting have recognized Montenegro as a Soverign and Independent Country. Also, the foreign relations page should be updated because it doesn't include all the info that should be in there. Milo 08:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Within a few weeks there will be dozens of countries on this list.  The big table doesn't belong here - we should keep it down to mentions of recognition by, say, Iceland (as the first), European Union, other ex-Yugoslav countries, United States, Russian Federation and the United Nations.  Morwen - Talk 16:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Foreign Relations of Montenegro]] 

message: I just think that naming a state "looser" is POV except when describing for instance a sporting event. Shouldn't it be changed? 'Course I'm new to Wiki so I might be comletely wrong :) TheLigerGirl 00:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So "looser" ->> "loser"? More sense in the latter. And yes, LigerGirl, calling a state a loser would be POV. -Fsotrain09 00:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The looser state" 

message: We list these as separate ethnic groups.  What's the difference between them? john k 14:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably the same as between Montenegrin Serbs and Montenegrin Montenegrins :-). Duja 15:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  A Slavic Muslim is a much broader term, however, it should relate to someone's religion, not ethnicity. Slavic Muslims in Bosnia and the border area between Serbia and Montenegro feel that their culture is so distinctive from their Christian neighbours that they wanted to identify themselves in ethnic terms as Bosniaks. There are other Slavic Muslims that do not have this need and they tend to identify themselves according to the country they are from, the example being muslims living in the southern part of Montenegro. They largely declare themselves as Montenegrins of muslim faith. -- user 11 August 2006
I don't think there is much difference except that Bosniaks originate from Sandžak, while Slavic Muslims originate from Slavic coutnrues, hence the name "Slavic Muslims", but most Bosniaks are technically Slavic Muslims if you think about it. Milo 08:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosniak/"Slavic Muslim" 

message: Not to be pedantic, but wouldn't the first country to recognize Montenegro's independence actually have been Serbia?  --Jfruh (talk) 22:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. Because of the simple fact that Serbia didn't recognise independent Montenegro (yet). Serbia recognised the results of referendum, but that doesn't mean Serbia recognised independence of Montenegro... --Dijxtra 10:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  There, only now Serbia has recognised Montenegro . --Dijxtra 18:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "first to recognize" 

message: Why is there still a Serbia And Montenegor team?
If they won,who would get credit?
Dudtz 6/12/06 6:52 PM EST
:Because the process of qualifying for the World Cup lasts years, and Serbia and Montenegro had already qualified, it was decided to compete as a single team for the tournament.  It's not unlike the way that the former USSR competed as a group "Unified Team" in the 1992 Olympics, only a few months after it broke up. 
:If they win, both countries share the credit, I guess.  I believe that there is actually only one Montenengran on the team -- which makes sense, as Montenegro had only about 10 percent of the population of the old union of the two. --Jfruh (talk) 00:32, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  World Cup 

message: From the article: "The European Union and the United States recognised Montenegro on June 12, as have various member states of the EU and other European countries."
If the EU as a whole recognized Montenegro, is it necessary (legally) for every EU member state to recognize it independently of the EU recognition? ☆ CieloEstrellado 23:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup.  Basically, the 25 foreign ministers said "we'll all recognize it, here's a joint statement" but legally the EU doesn't have its own state-to-state foreign policy capabilities.  Thus far, about a third of those ministers have gone home, done the needed paperwork, and fired off the diplomatic notes.  All 25 should be in by the end of the week, I imagine, but it hasn't happened yet. The Tom 00:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let me add a "yet" to "doesn't have its own state-to-state foreign policy capabilities".  —Nightstallion (?) 06:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: International recognition

message: Is this edit accurate? --Telex 13:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is. --Dijxtra 14:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serb recognition 

message: Anybody have a source for that? The Tom 22:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  382 phone code 

message: While I realise that the euro is Montenegro's de facto currency, is it also their currency de jure. That is to say: (I know the EU doesn't have an agreement with them) are there laws within Montenegro which name the euro as legal tender (people and businesses are obliged to accept it as means of payment) - Рэдхот 16:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the article implies that the adoption of the currency is in any way unofficial, merely that the Montenegro isn't officially part of the Eurozone...its central bank does not play any role in the ECB, for instance. The Tom 16:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  From the article Economy of Montenegro, which according to several editors needs a good deal of work: "adoption of the euro as Montenegro's legal tender" followed the creation of Serbia and Montenegro as a loose union in 2003. -Fsotrain09 19:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok thanks. I didn't know that article existed yet. The last time I checked (which wasn't too long ago) it didn't exist. - Рэдхот 19:31, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Currency 

message: "Montenegro was recognised as an independent nation by Serbia on June 15"
This sentence mentioned in the first paragraph is ridiculous. Many countries recognised Montenegro as independent, not only Serbia, so why only Serbia is mentioned here? Is that sentence another example of accusing Serbia for territorial expansionism? Why Serbia would not recognise independence of Montenegro? Serbia and Montenegro were two members of the state union and Montenegro had right to become independent and Serbia did not had intentions to deny that right. So, why somebody think that it was important to mention here that Montenegro was recognised as an independent nation by Serbia? I do not think that Serbia would do anything else in this case, and the sentence imply that it would. Thus, I will remove this ridiculous sentence. PANONIAN (talk) 14:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: First paragraph

message: The current elections for the Montenegrin government are actually the second semester of the Montenegrin referendum. Why is there nothing in the article? Appearently, the Democratic Party of Socialists of Montenegro-Social Democratic Party of Montenegro won 41 mandate in the Republican Assembly; while the Serbian Paper got 12, the Coalition Serbian People's Party of Montenegro-People's Party of Montenegro-[{Democratic Serbian Party of Montenegro]] and the Movemend for Changes each got 11. The Liberal Party of Montengero and the Bosniak Party of Montenegro each got 2, while 1 got the 4 political Albanian factions. --HolyRomanEmperor 15:22, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elections? 

message: I have found a number of maps that do not show the Serbian-Montenegrin border:   
And also some maps at . (Stefan2 13:20, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maps 

message: This talk page is waaaay too big. Zazaban 18:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Somebody archive.