Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musical Theatre/talkarchive7-06-07

message: This is a notification that :Category:Operas by Kurt Weill is being considered for renaming to :Musical dramas by Kurt Weill at here. Please weigh in if you would like. -- Cielomobile talk / contribs 08:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The result of the discussion was NOT to rename.  -- Ssilvers 03:26, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  CfR: Operas by Kurt Weill to Musical dramas by Kurt Weill 

message: I noticed that "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" has a tag for this project. I am a little confused now. Are we adding Film Musicals to this project or is that a mistake? "The Rocky Horror Show" is a theatrical musical and would be a part but does not have a tag. Help me out here is this a correct use of the project tag? --Amadscientist 03:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right.  The project tag should be on the stage show's talk page.  It is optional on the musical film's talk page.  I never bother to add the tag to film articles, since the film project is a much more active project (300 active editors, I hear) and is more likely to do substantial work to the film articles, including musical films.  We currently only have a handful of active editors, and so we are doing what we can at present.  Indeed, it only makes a lot of sense to add tags to articles that we intend to work on.  So, if you're editing a musicals article, please do add the musicals project tag.  Best regards, -- Ssilvers 03:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proper use of the Project tag on Film Musicals 

message: As per Wikipedia procedure for dispute resolution I am asking any and all members of this project to add input on a dispute over deletion of Taglines for this film, which was added to the National Film Registry in 2005. The original tagline "A Different Set of Jaws" is also listed as one of the most memorable taglines in history along with others. I also have at least one other reference source, an article on "The Rocky Horror Picture Show as Cultural Performance" with mention on the cultural impact of the tagline "Don't Dream It, Be It." Input is needed to resolve a current "Edit War" where an Editor keeps deleting without adding a better reason than he "Does not believe they are notable" with no further reference to back up the assertion. Thank you. --Amadscientist 09:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute Resolution Procedure REQUEST FOR COMMENT for article "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" 

message: The article structure page hasn't been updated since May 26, 2007. I would wager that this has been long enough to say that it's working pretty well. I say let's all take one last look at it to see if there's anything missing and then, by vote below, let's determine if we can remove the not the final article structure notice. Obviously, this does not mean that we would never revise it again, but if it's doing pretty well, no need to call it unfinished anymore.
====The Vote====
*omtay38 Remove notice
*MusicMaker Keep notice Remove notice 
*Dafyd Remove Notice
*Amadscientist Remove Notice
*Ssilvers - Remove Notice
The result of this vote was to remove the notice. --omtay38 00:31, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the easiest and most logical response to that would be that the synopsis should be just long enough to mention all of the pertinent musical numbers and major characters without going into too much detail.  That might sound glib, but I think it's ridiculous to hold us down to a word count on something that can vary greatly from instance to instance.  Like I said at the other talk page, including lists just rehashes information that should logically be elsewhere.  —  MusicMaker 07:25, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  
Take a look at the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Musical Theatre/Article Structure|Article Structure]]
 IT'S DONE! 

message: *omtay38 Remove notice
*MusicMaker Keep notice Remove notice 
*Dafyd Remove Notice
*Amadscientist Remove Notice
*Ssilvers - Remove Notice
The result of this vote was to remove the notice. --omtay38 00:31, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Vote

message: *I know I haven't been active for awhile, and, really, I only intend on remaining partially active, but I do have an issue to raise regarding the structure and will do so on its talk page.  —  MusicMaker 22:08, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the easiest and most logical response to that would be that the synopsis should be just long enough to mention all of the pertinent musical numbers and major characters without going into too much detail.  That might sound glib, but I think it's ridiculous to hold us down to a word count on something that can vary greatly from instance to instance.  Like I said at the other talk page, including lists just rehashes information that should logically be elsewhere.  —  MusicMaker 07:25, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: A while back a series of guidelines were proposed for this infobox. Please take a look at the guidelines on this page to see if you have anything to add or any comments to make. Cheers. --omtay38 21:41, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ohh, and if you change anything, be sure to keep it within the  tags, not like I did. Yah... :-D. --omtay38 23:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears that someone has revised Template:Infobox Musical and has been adding it to pages (The Phantom of the Opera (1986 musical), A Chorus Line, etc,), regardless of the warning on the page.  It should probably be nominated for deletion, but I'm not sure how you do that for a template.  I'll look into it later.  —  MusicMaker 07:28, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

text: If no one objects, I think we can consider this template finalized.  (Especially since I nominated the others for deletion, I think we should get the warning template off the page....)  —  MusicMaker 01:30, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Take a look at [[Template:Infobox Musical 2]] 

message: All the templates tagged as part of this project are there. I know it's very busy and complex, but at least it's a start. --omtay38 22:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Take a look at the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Musical Theatre/Templates|template]] page.

message: Use it if you want, it's there for all
It looks like:
To use it paste:

Wherever you keep your userboxes.  Cheers! --omtay38 18:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice!  I've put it up on my userpage.  Thanks!  -- Ssilvers 19:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Take a look at the pretty userbox 

message: Both  and  have been nominated for deletion.  You can weigh in with your vote at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 June 17  —  MusicMaker 23:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old templates nominated for deletion 

message: In going through the infoboxes (and I remember this from last year), I've noticed a strange array of musicals based on anime (like Air Gear (musical)).  These are stage productions with roles played by actors, but most of the productions are (as one might expect) in Japan and in Japanese.  The articles are written from the perspective of how they fit in with the overall anime, and most of them have very little musical theatre-type information, like composer or lyricist or any member of the creative team.  I don't even know how one might find information on these productions (in English), and I'm wondering what we should do with them.  Should we consider them part of the canon of traditional musical theatre and get the articles to the standard upon which we've just decided, or should we leave them to the anime people to deal with?  My own opinion is that I don't really want to deal with them, and we should leave them to the anime crowd.  Thoughts?  —  MusicMaker 06:13, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We are frequently accused of being U.S.-centric (or US/UK-centric).  So, it is good whenever we can list musicals from other countries.  I think we should add to these articles what we can, and then trust that, at some point, people with more access to info will add to the articles.  Better info may appear in English at any time - new information comes up on Google every day.  I don't think they're a high priority to worry too much about.  The most notable ones will get more attention naturally.  I would put a note on their talk pages saying basically that "in order to do an infobox, we need the following info, can anyone supply it?"  Best regards, -- Ssilvers 13:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm all about avoiding systemic bias, but I feel that these things are more a creation of the particular anime franchise -- just a way for them to make more money -- than anything truly about musical theatre.  —  MusicMaker 18:29, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Heh, I was thinking that when I wrote that....  At least Disney uses well-known "composers"; I have the feeling that these things are like someone pushed the "Create Musical" button on their computer.  (I wish I had one of those....)  —  MusicMaker 20:53, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anime stage musicals 

message: I tried to make sense of the rock opera article, but it's a mess, and the editor there resisted any changes, so I dropped the issue.  That editor had split the rock musical article from the rock opera article, so Broadwaygal and I worked on improving the rock musical article and the list of rock musicals.  Would people please take a look and add information to the list of rock musicals and also see if you can improve the rock musical article?  Does anyone have the stomach to try to work on the rock opera article, knowing that you will run into resistance?  If so, I would support an effort to improve it, but I think the rock musical article is more important.  -- Ssilvers 18:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember being over there sometime last year and, truly, it's insanity.  The things that people think should be considered a rock opera are OUTLANDISH!  I don't know if I have the constitution for it right now, but at some point I'll get over there and have your back.  —  MusicMaker 20:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rock Musicals/Rock Operas

message: The AfD for Oedipus for Kids can be found here.  Feel free to weigh in.  —  MusicMaker 08:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of a couple of articles 

message: EVERY song for EVERY Sherman brothers' musical has a page.  The guy working on them is the same guy from A Christmas Held Captive, an AfD from last summer (himself a descendant of the Sherman brothers' [I think]).  They all fail notability, and, if someone can get to them before me, great.  If not, I'll get to them eventually.  —  MusicMaker 18:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More (eventual) Afds 

message: I don't know if everyone's watching that page, but I proposed some guidelines for article assessment on that talk page.  —  MusicMaker 20:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal 

message: Would anybody be interested in having a WikiProject Musical Theatre peer review?  I've noticed that several projects incorporate them.  Basically, if a certain member would nominate an article (s)he had been working on to be reviewed by fellow members of the project, most likely before sending it off for Good Article nomination.  Reviews would be (in theory) more comprehensive than basic Article Assessment, since it is more looking at the "nitty-gritty" of articles that have been intensely worked upon already.
If anyone else would like to have a project peer review for exclusively musical theatre articles, I'll gladly create the page, but I also definitely understand that the project has a lot on its hands right now and maybe this should come later?  — warpedmirror (talk) 21:11, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a bad idea at all.  We can certainly start the page now, but I'd say it might be awhile before we actually use it.  —  MusicMaker 21:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Eh, that's true, too....  —  MusicMaker 21:39, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alrighty, we'll just put it on hold for now.  When the day comes when the musical theatre articles are all potential FA's, I'll set one up. ;) — warpedmirror (talk) 22:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer review 

message: I just wanted to leave a note here for anyone involved in switching infoboxes to make sure that we keep them uniform and standardized.  Make sure you read all of the directions on , and there is a good example, there.  (Which, oddly, is not on the article it represents....)  —  MusicMaker 21:39, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Or there was....  What happened to the How to Succeed...' infobox?  —  MusicMaker 21:40, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: There it is.  (I used that image as a placeholder; can't use nonfree over here....) —  MusicMaker 21:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Also, keep your eyes peeled for possible Afd's.  If, in your switching, you come across an article that fails notability (you'll know it when you see it...), either list them for afd yourself and note it here or, if you're unfamiliar with the process, note it here and someone will take care of it for you.  —  MusicMaker 23:03, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infoboxes 

message: Heyo all. Just leavin a quick note that i'm in the process of updating  so things might be gettin funky for a bit. Feel free to look (you can see how it displays at my sandbox. But please don't touch any copy of the notice anywhere. I have little (if any) coding experience so if I hit an edit conflict with you, I won't know what to do :-D. It's gonna be really cool when it's done, which should be very soon. Cheers! --omtay38 21:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome.  You're an HTML wiz.  I think this will greatly facilitate assessment.  -- Ssilvers 22:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed! Looks great! — warpedmirror (talk) 22:20, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks so much, now i gotta figure out how to incorporate it into the article assessment page. BTW, take a look at :Category:WikiProject banners and tell me if there's anything else you think would be useful that you see in other banners (reference to the banner in question would assist greatly too!) I gotta go eat dinner now, but I'll be back to finish up in an hour or two. --omtay38 22:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems many projects also assess an article's priority along with its quality, using the following scale.  Should we follow suit? — warpedmirror (talk) 22:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed, re: priority.  —  MusicMaker 22:49, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updated Talk Page Notice 

message: The Return of The Glass Slipper and The return of the glass slipper were both empty save for an infobox stating a "2007 School Play".  They've been AfD'd together here.  —  MusicMaker 00:14, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't bother; they'll probably be speedilied....  —  MusicMaker 00:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another AfD 

message: Somebody suggested a Collaboration of the month page a while back and, since I was on a coding spree, I made one also.
It's at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Musical_Theatre/COTM
Take a look, it's really self explanatory and, I think, will be a lot of fun.
Happy Editing --omtay38 04:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nicely done.  —  MusicMaker 05:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collaboration of the month 

message: I've started a list in my userspace of the articles that, once I have collected them all, I'm probably going to nominate for deletion (I haven't made up my mind about all of them.  And, honestly, I'm not particularly a deletionist, but some of them are ridiculous.).  Feel free to add as you see fit, but please don't remove any -- if there are any objections, they can certainly be raised during the AfD.  Once they have been nominated, rather than taking up all of that room here, I'll change that page to be a compendium of the links to the debates, and will let everyone know.  —  MusicMaker 05:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More AfDs 

message: Added a sidebar to the main page!
If you wanna keep it handy somwhere on your userpage or something, just add  to wherever you want it.
All suggestions are welcome :-D
Cheers!
--omtay38 01:08, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks great, omtay! — warpedmirror (talk) 18:38, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More cool [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Musical Theatre|stuff]] 

message: The Article Assessment page has been massively revamped and reworked to fit with the new template and ranking system. Check it out, have a look, and then help out clearing the backlog of Unassessed Musical Theatre articles. I think this'll work out pretty well!
Happy Editing
--omtay38 06:42, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Musical Theatre/Article Assessment|Article Assessment]] 

message: I've gotten through the initial list that I had posted and you can get to the AfDs for all of them here.  I've added a couple more to my list and will probably nominate them after I get some sleep.
I know that some editors have raised some issues with some of the ones selected for deletion.  Really, in nominating all of these articles, what I'm trying to do is get some idea of what the WP community at large will consider notable for musicals, and what it will not.  There are no guidelines at WP:NOTE, WP:MUSIC or anywhere else that really address the issue (there are a couple guidelines for songs, but not entire musicals).  As such, if there are concerns, please weigh in at the AfDs.  —  MusicMaker 08:49, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  AfDs 

message: I did some prettifying as a diversion on the main page.  If anyone's display is way out of wack (or in wack... depends on how you define wack...) lmk.  And, of course, if anyone thinks it's horrible, lmk.  I removed the section on templates; as we have a subpage for it, I didn't think it was necessary.  —  MusicMaker 04:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: very pretty :D.  --omtay38 05:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Nice.  Check the first box on the right, though.  The words wrap too soon and don't go all the way across.  Also, how about a shading color in the title box at the top.  Something that complements the other light blue and purple colors, like... periwinkle.  LOL!  Also, I made a few copy edits.  Please check the yellow To do box.  I updated the project tag template there.  Did I do it right? -- Ssilvers 05:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Check to see if the sidebar is working a little better; I did a little tinkering.  The words were occluding the shortcut box -- I think that's what you were talking about.  If there are still major problems, lmk.  (You did it right in the To-do, btw....)  —  MusicMaker 06:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: RE:color.  Gimme a couple minutes to find some complementary colors.  —  MusicMaker 06:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we're officially pretty.  —  MusicMaker 07:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: My original thought in having the two was that one was for tasks that need to be done (orphaning templates, adding infoboxes, and the like) where the other was for over-reaching things to be done (mainly ways to improve articles).  It doesn't seem to have stayed that way, and, yeah, it seems repetitive (and redundant). —  MusicMaker 21:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm using Firefox, too, and it's working fine.  May be your zoom setting?  Lemme play around and see if I can figure some stuff out.... I really don't know what I'm doing; I'll be the first to admit.  —  MusicMaker 21:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: When I zoom in, it'll do that.  Is "WikiProject Musical Theatre" in the first box on one line or two?  —  MusicMaker 21:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's on one line.  Meh...I'm clueless, but how exactly would I adjust my zoom setting? — warpedmirror (talk) 02:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm....  I dunno.  I have a nifty little slide bar on my keyboard that does it for me....  But I think Cntl++ or Cntl+- might do it....   Cnt+0 should make it "normal".  If that doesn't fix it, um....  —  MusicMaker 20:34, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh...well, it worked...but the project sidebar only lines up with the title box thing when it is zoomed out so far that the left Wikipedia sidebar is almost nonexistent.  But don't mess with it just for the sake of me...it seems to be working for everyone else! — warpedmirror (talk) 21:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if it does it for you, it might do it for other people.  Unfortunately, I just don't know enough about HTML and WikiMarkup to really understand why that might be happening....  —  MusicMaker 22:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main Page prettifying