Talk:Welsh Highland Railway

message: I have added what I have called the brand name (I don't think this is a very good name for it, but cannot think of a better one), as the direct translation is not the one that will be used.  Rheilffordd Eryri will be used, which is Snowdon Railway (I believe, but I don't know Welsh), so I felt it important to include this.  If you can think of a better way to include it, I'd be grateful.--John 08:01, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm got into a muddle trying to work it out too.  Anyway, "Rheillffordd" = railway, and in Welsh the order of words is basically backwards to that in English.  "Eyri" actually means Snowdonia, not Snowdon, e.g. "Awdurdod Parc Cenedlaethol Eyri" is Snowdonia National Park (compare "Awdurdod Parc Cenedlaethol Arfordir Penfro" Pembrokeshire Coast National Park).  Note the Snowdon Mountain Railway is "Rheilffordd yr Wyddfa" which does mean "Snowdon Railway" (no mountain). Dunc|☺ 12:06, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Welsh Translation

message: In order to avoid conflict of description, the 1998 agreement (q.v.), between the two separate organisations working together in the restoration of the WHR, determined that where it became neccessary (during the reconstruction era) to diferentiate between the two halves of the endevour, the 'northern end' would be called WHR (Caernarfon) and the 'southern end' WHR (Porthmadog).  I hope we can agree to follow the same convention.  Whilst outside the said agreement, I hope we will also agree that Porthmadog railway station is not the southern terminus of WHR (Porthmadog).  NoelWalley 16:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concerning Stations 

message: These could do with rearanging into a more logical order, fitting in with the route of the railway, ie Norh to South
--82.68.6.202 23:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where are they not listed in this order? They are in that order in the article, unless I've missed something. There are quite a few articles, so I probably haven't spotted the place you mean. Thanks, Gwernol 00:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the query is refering to Welsh_Highland_Railway#Stations. Traeth Mawr is not listed, and when them stations from WHR(P) and WHR(C) are combined they do not following in order. == Stewart 00:32, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stations 

message: Okay - had discussions offlist and come up with the following as a disclaimer.  Am placing here for comment first - and inviting contribs to amend within it , rather than comment on end.  Suggestion position in text  2.21 and prior to the current contents of 2.2 Controversy and Complication
Over the period since the railway effectively closed on 31 May 1937, there have been a number of groups that have had an interest, of some form, in the revitalisation of the WHR.
 
From the FR itself, the WHR reciever, through to Official Recievers, scrap merchants, budding entrepraneurs (?), Sustrans Bike paths, government in the many forms and political persuasions of the past 70 years including local, regional and national varieties.  All have had something to do with the railway and its return,  Add changes in policy over the period, and .......... you get my meaning.
 
Then we come to the "enthusiast groups", a loose term used here to describe the different bands of people, who cumulatively have brought the railway to its current position, that of shortly,(three years time), running trains its extended length  
 
A definitive list of the group names involved can be found on the official Rebuilding site here:-   http://whr.bangor.ac.uk/whichwhr.htm
 
A brief description of the parts these bands played are dealt with in the next section.
 
Suffice to say for the casual reader, a full, objective, history cannot be written yet, and will remain unwritten until at least, the council records are released.
 
Keith 15:50, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disclaimer 

message: I have created a route map for the restored Welsh Highland Railway using the Route diagram template. I've not included any road or river crossings as I think these would make it too complicated and it doesn't have the crossing of the Cambrian Line as there isn't a symbol for that. I've used the Metro/Light Rail Symbols for the Cambrian Line as that made things easier.
--Zabdiel 12:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work. Not sure what to do about the old stations and branches that connected to the route that are not being opened. --Stewart 20:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I though it best to leave them off as it would probably make the map confusing.  Could have a separate map showing the old route.  There's a jpg map in the article which covers the old stations - but not the old branch lines. Zabdiel 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry Zabdiel, didnt know you had done this, when I started mine - which is part of more for FR, and expanded detail as well.  Used the Metro/Light Rail Symbols for the line, and normal red for Cambrian (Sorry) --Keith]] 08:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I have now converted the route map to a template. --Stewart (talk) 19:33, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

text: There is already a RDT for this railway at . Has this been noticed? WT79 (speak to me | editing patterns | what I been doing) 09:36, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Route Map 

message: I've removed this from the main article as a number of the station names do not match the names given in the history on the WHR(P) webpage.   It's also missing the branch to Bryngwyn & Moel Tryfan Zabdiel (talk) 16:27, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Map of original WHR

message: The article is getting rather large - would it be better to split off and create a couple of additional articles?
One called:
*Rebuilding the Welsh Highland Railway  or
*Restoration of the Welsh Highland Railway
Containing most of the details from the following sections:
 3 Restoration
  3.1 Welsh Highland Railway Limited
  3.2 Controversy and Complication
  3.3 Obstruction and Objections
  3.4 Two Welsh Highland Railways
 4 Rebuilding the WHR (Caernarfon)
  4.1 Phase 1: Caernarfon to Dinas
  4.2 Phase 2: Dinas to Waunfawr
  4.3 Phase 3: Waunfawr to Rhyd Ddu
 5 The future
  5.1 WHR (Porthmadog)
  5.2 WHR (Caernarfon) - Phase 4: Rhyd Ddu to Porthmadog
And one called:
Welsh Highland Railway rolling stock
-- Zabdiel 2 July 2007
:The restoration section has been moved to Welsh Highland Railway Restoration by Pencefn.  I've proposed on that article's talk page that more info is merged in. Zabdiel 15:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split? 

message: Re some usage of FF instead of F.  It started by the link to the Ffestiniog Railways HG Wiki (!!!) - it hasnt got one.  The Festiniog Railway is the name of the company, and has been for 175 years.
There has been occasional usage of FF over that period, but the bulk of material and legal documentation has had a single F. (Try searching the HMSO site for single and double F versions!)
The use of the double FF, as a marketing ploy only started in the last 25 or so years, so any refs before then to FF are incorrect.
The FRS magazine did not change from single to double until issue 145, Summer 1994. Keith 22:42, 16:36, 24 October 2007.  
       My personal opinion, as a reader of the magazine of the FR association, is that modern-day references should be Ff, and older references as F. 31.54.205.221 (talk) 16:22, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Festiniog v Ffestiniog 

message: I've started a discussion on the  talk page about the Preceding station and Following station templates.  How should they look for stations which are no longer open?  Probably best to respond on the Tryfan Junction page  - though if people feel it'd be better to have the discussion here then feel free Zabdiel (talk) 10:20, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've found a guide for what they are supposed to be used for on the UK Railways WikiProject.  "Historical Rail" is for historical services over tracks still in use (e.g. Betws Garmon) and "Disused Rail" for stations on disused lines (e.g. Rhostryfan).  Stations such as Waunfawr will need a "Heritage Rail" section for the preserved line where it is between Plas-y-Nant and Dinas and a "Historical Rail" for the original WHR where it was between Tryfan Junction & Betws Garmon. Zabdiel (talk) 14:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is getting wiki-pedantic, but you are right. And therefore the box on Tryfan Junction page would be i) Dinas<-Historical->Waunfawr and ii) jumnction<-disused->Rhostryfan for the Bryngwyn branch  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manstaruk (talk • contribs) 18:05, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: wiki-pedantic is a good word :) - I think a bit of padanticness is needed in encyclopaedias. I've done a few of the stations but there's still some which need changing.  I've also not done anything with changing colours of the routes - they're all black at the moment.  Zabdiel (talk) 10:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preceding/Following stations 

message: Here's some links I've found which provide references or more info for this page and other WHR pages:
*Engineering the Welsh Highland Railway re-build
*The Welsh Highland Railway (Transfer) Light Railway Order 1995
*BBC Wales article about Volunteering on the Welsh Highland Railway (Porthmadog)
*Daily Post: Welsh Highland Railway revival is on track
*Match Funding – Welsh Highland Railway - The Deputy First Minister for Wales has agreed to the provision of £637,574 of match funding for this project 
*All aboard the Welsh Highland Railway
*Google Book Search for Welsh Highland Railway
I don't have time to include them at the moment but if someone else has time that'd be great Zabdiel (talk) 11:43, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I think the stations section would be better if it were re-written into a description of the route in a similar style to the Route section of the Talyllyn article.  I've started but only got as far as Waunfawr.  It probably needs some work to make it read better. Zabdiel (talk) 11:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Had a think, and a look at the Talyllyn_Railway, and come to conclusion that as this line is three times the length, it isnt worth doing it.  It would also duplicate the information that "should" be on the individual pages of each station.  Admnittedly there are disused branches that will not be covered, but doing what you envisage purely for these may be a good idea. --Keith 09:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Route 

message: Some information has been put in, that has been interpreted from incorrect information.  Some of this has now been been corrected.
:This was left by manstaruk on my talkpage .........(edited)Trident13 (talk) 21:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Information Validity 

message: This was very common centuries ago. My own name for example was spelled thus in the distant past.  Rich Ffarmbrough, 14:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ff

message: The opening sentence states that the "The Welsh Highland Railway (WHR) (Welsh: Rheilffordd Eryri / Rheilffordd Ucheldir Cymru) is a narrow gauge railway in Wales" ....
The third paragraph also states "The restored line is known as both Rheilffordd Ucheldir Cymru AND Rheilffordd Eryri in Welsh."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the name "Rheilffordd Ucheldir Cymru" used by the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway (as it says on that site, by the picture), not by this one?    Hogyn Lleol (talk) 16:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the railway 

message: Does the operations section really need the expansion tag, it seems fairly detailed? Dje84 (talk) 22:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operations section - expansion? 

message: I've started a discussion about whether the name for the above page needs to change here. I thought I would put a note here as this is the main page about the WHR. Dje84 (talk) 18:08, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of welsh highland railway (Caernarfon) rolling stock 

message: ::"The origins of the WHRL restoration efforts, tentatively began in 1961 when disagreements within the volunteers of the Festiniog RailwayVerbal recollections and e-group correspondence  and a group like minded railway enthusiasts, joined to form The Welsh Highland Railway Society."
user:Manstaruk recently edited the article with the following information. I've deleted his reference and tagged it as I believe it refers to a primary source on an e-group. I have left messages on his talk page informing him of this and asking for a reliable citation Dje84 (talk) 08:42, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Early FR Co / WHRL Dispute Origins Sourcing

message: The following para was removed - resaons below
It is fair to say that the relationship between the WHRL and FR has been less then perfect over the years. In part this comes from the way the FR handled the take over of the WHR fueling already existing resentment against the FR in the then '64 Company, but the way both entities are organised also plays an important role. The FR, as a commercial enterprise with a matching top-down organisation, has to safeguard its interests, whereas the WHRL is a democratic heritage organisation, with a structure to support this. One of the highlights in this relationship is the aformentioned 1998 Agreement, the latest low was the Spring 2010 WHRL Operations proposal, rejected by the FR on its merits, not its origins as has been suggested by individual WHRL supporters. In early summer 2010 the WHRL held its Annual General Meeting (AGM) where members elected a new Board. It is hoped this will bring a normalisation of relations with the FR, to the benefit of visitors to North Wales in general and the narrow gauge railways in particular.
For one, The "Spring 2010 WHRL Operations proposal" never existed!  Proposal were made and rejected in 2008.
Placing this whole para, as it stands wouldn't be in the best interests of anyone, especially in the post AGM period.   Whilst some of the facts are not questioned, a less controversial rewrite would be more acceptable --Keith 14:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of inaccurate paragraph 

message: The famous H. F. Stephens managed the WHR for all or part of the period from c1923 until its closure.  Surely this classic British eccentric must receive a mention somewhere in this article, which is cross-referred from the article H. F. Stephens.  Is anyone able to do this?  If not, let me know, as I have at least one book devoted to the Colonel which should provide some short but accurate data. Flying Stag (talk) 22:05, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colonel Stephens 

message: There has been discussion in several articles about the significance of differences between nominal gauges of 597, 600 and 610 millimeters.  It appears this project may be one of the few contemporary instances where equipment from each of these gauges is being operated.  Can someone associated with present maintenance operations provide maximum and minimum wheel gauge and rail gauge criteria now in use on this project?Thewellman (talk) 17:50, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gauge 

message: Substituted at 10:22, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I have noticed that on the main map of the route, the labels on the Cambrian Line saying "to Aberystwyth" and "to Pwllheli" are the wrong way around. Furthermore though, the line doesn't even go the Aberystwyth; it goes to Dovey Junction and then Shrewsbury. Nathan A RF (talk) 16:20, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong map label 

message: "The origins of the WHRL restoration efforts, tentatively began in 1961 when disagreements within the volunteers of the Festiniog Railway[10] and a group of like-minded railway enthusiasts, joined to form The Welsh Highland Railway Society." 
I'm not able to parse this. How can a disagreement join to form something?
I'm guessing that this might be rewritten as:
"The origins of the WHRL restoration efforts tentatively began in 1961 after disagreements within the volunteers of the Festiniog Railway[10]. Those volunteers who left the original group and a group of like-minded railway enthusiasts joined to form The Welsh Highland Railway Society." 
But I have no idea whether that would be in agreement with the facts, so am posting here instead.
Thisisnotatest (talk) 02:59, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unable to parse this sentence