Talk:Explosively formed penetrator

message: Is this a correct use of the term, and if so should it be used in the first sentence of the definition?Smile4Chomsky (talk) 12:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Petard?

message: "Because they use explosives to form a solid copper penetrator instead of using an explosive blast or metal fragments, these charges are extremely dangerous, even to the new generation of MREs (which are made to withstand an anti-tank mine), and many tanks.[9]" MRE's stand for Meals Ready to Eat and the link directs as such, what does that have anything to do with armor or EFP's?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.48.72.35 (talk) 17:52, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: MRE's?

message: I find that the graf about MEFP, SEFP, etc adds a great deal of jargon, much redundant information, quite a lot of unnecessary technical detail, and very little relative value for the non-obsessed reader; anybody agrees/disagrees?--Victor falk 23:46, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno, I think its alright... Tmaull 03:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: It is allright, after thinking. But something bothers me about the structure of the article, I think the "difference from shape charge" should be rearangered, maybe divided into several sections or subsections. Or maybe both current sections into practical (use in weapon systems & ied's, technical details) and theoretical sections. What do people think?--Victor falk 21:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Revision as of 22 june 2007

message: "An explosively formed penetrator (EFP), self forging warhead or self forging fragment is a special type of shaped charge that is designed to penetrate effectively at long range."
I find it questionable to describe EFPs as a "special type of shaped charge".
Early in the article it states, "A conventional shaped charge has a generally conical metal liner that projects.... An EFP, on the other hand, has a liner in the shape of a shallow dish."
The purpose of the metal liner inside the conical cavity of the shaped charge is to add greater mass to the "jet" enabling greater penetration.  It should be noted that these liners are far thinner than the disk found on EFP/SFF's.
The article later states, "The charges are generally cylindrical, fabricated from commonly available water or oil pipe with the forward end closed by a concave copper or steel disk (liner) to create a shaped charge."
This does absolutely nothing to create a shaped charge.  The key thing is consistency in the metal of the disk, consistency in the placement and composition of the explosive charge and that the explosive charge is center primed.  Read some of the patents that are published about EFPs.
When we were shown how to make expedient/improvised explosive devices while I was on active duty in the early 90's we were shown how to make something called a platter charge.
Go to  and search down toward the bottom for 
"Figure 13-16. Platter charge"
"PLATTER CHARGE
The platter charge (Figure 13-16) consists of a suitable container that is filled with uniformly packed explosive and placed behind a platter. The platter is metal (preferably round, but square is satisfactory) and weighs 1 to 3 kilograms..."''
In a nutshell the term "shaped charge" should primarily apply to devices where the actualy "shape" of the explosives is the primary determinant in the devise's effects.
The platter charge should be called just that a platter charge - unless there is a more specific and descriptive name.  The projectile that results from its detonation should be called the Explosively Formed Penetrator or Self Forging Fragment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.226.49.191 (talk) 11:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  EFP's as a special type of shaped charge? 

message: Should the current claimed connection between Iran and EFPs in Iraq be discussed?  The talking heads claiming a link to Iran cite that Iran is especially adapt at making EFPs.  They don't give real citations though.  I wouldn't consider anything that Michael Gordon (or the current administration) says to be of a high enough quality to be on wikipedia either.
:It doesn't seem right to go into political matters in the body of this technical article. On reflection, do you not agree? John Wheater 07:45, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree wholly with John Weather, political controversies do not belong in a technical article, especially when they are more than two thirds of the article and furthermore degenerate into an edit war.  Victor falk 07:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Iran Connection

message: I found one sentence in the article a little bit missleading. Quote:
"It can easily punch through the protection of light- to medium-armoured vehicles, to deliver a wide spray of fragments of liner material and vehicle armour backspall into the vehicle's interior, injuring its crew and damaging other systems."
Now in my opinion it should be clarified, that these weapons are dangerous for heavy armoured vehicles and even main battle tanks like the Challenger 2 (the tanks deployed in Iraq carry additional armour and weight about 70 tons, claims the source). The Guardian reported an attack on a Challenger 2 with an EFP, resulting in a heavily wounded driver.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2064110,00.html
This article states some details on the vector of attack:
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/robert_fox/2007/04/king_or_country.html
Quote: "The charge was aimed through the front of a main track, a vulnerable point in any such vehicle and under the driver's compartment at the front of the tank - which should have some of the best protection by armoured plating."
It's also claimed that several Abrams tanks have been destroyed in central iraq, but I'm not shure about these information. Maybe someone could look into it.
Mobility killed, yes. Catastrophically killed, no. Mostly what RPGs and the like did was just put blackened gouges in the armor.--LWF 12:52, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: SADARM and other weapons were designed to kill tanks (heavy armour) with EFP. Maybe they don't work?--MajorHazard 17:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aerial anti-tank EFPs attack from above, where the armour is only light or medium... --Victor falk 19:34, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is precisely crux of needed clarification. MBT is of class "heavy armour", but EFP can defeat from top or side or rear (some EFP fired from ground) or bottom (EFP in mines). Exact statement is that EFP *weapons* (diameter ~150mm) can perforate all armoured vehicles except thickest front armour of MBT. Some *IED* EFP are bigger (London Times shows 250mm diameter!!), perhaps can even penetrate very thick armour of tank. What happens after EFP perforate to inside vehicle depends on what it hits, maybe catastrophe (hit explosive, kill all crew) or not. Mention of RPG here is not relevant, don't have EFP.--MajorHazard 07:48, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're right. I have removed "light and medium". --Victor falk 07:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  I found this interetsting factoid..:
Weapons will also be tailored to the particular operation. If a directional explosive is needed,the terrorist could make use of available military models of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines. Conversely, the terrorist may determine that a mine would be detected by the target'ssecurity force en route to the attack, and he therefore needs to build or obtain an alternative device. To illustrate, even counting the warheads of anti-ship cruise missiles, there was not a readily available weapon for the attack on the USS Cole. No one manufactures a half-ton C-4 platter charge configured to fit in a small boat, but that was exactly what the terrorist's plan required. Therefore it was exactly what the terrorist group built. Additionally, Operation Iraqi Freedom has demonstrated the terrorists' ability to construct a variety of IEDs that are effective, yet are easily emplaced and difficult to detect by military forces. source: (pdf): http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/army/guidterr/app_c.pdf --Victor falk 22:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maybe some clarification necessary 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:ExFiPro-balanced.jpg

message: After going off and reading the linked disambiguation article on standoff, I have not the slightest clue what this is supposed to mean in this article. How far away, exactly is "stand off" distance? 1 meter? 10 meters? Is it the distance you can run before whatever detonates? DMahalko (talk) 02:46, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  need in-article explanation for standoff distance 

message: The article says explosively formed penetrators were formed in WWII yet the citation does not go to a specific article, there is no further information and I have never seen any source saying that EFPs were used in WWII. Clarification needed. Kbog (talk) 03:46, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Invented in WWII? 

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thread_title:  Malware Link Removal 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080325074243/http://www.military.com:80/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_EFP,,00.html to http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_EFP,,00.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The example given from The Terminal List is excessively descriptive of the plot of the show. Anyone coming to this Wikipedia article for encyclopedic information on EFPs may be unintentionally exposed to plot details that do not substantially increase understanding about EFPs.
Simply stating that an EFP was an important plot element of The Terminal List might be appropriate for this article, but not the extra details about how and why it was used. 47.6.83.115 (talk) 20:06, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed per WP:MILPOP:  BilCat (talk) 23:10, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modify or Remove "In Popular Media" section?