Talk:Jetsunma Ahkon Lhamo

message: I moved the new recognitions material to the recognitions section to be relevant.  Also added in a few new sections headers to help the readers.  Best, if the intro should follow these guidelines. WP:MOSBIO 
Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 05:07, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recognitions 

message: for inclusion. Zulu Papa 5 * (talk) 13:50, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Eh. I'd rather not include it. It's depressing, for one. Also, it's a current event and we don't how important it's going to be to the article. It might be important. Might turn out to be a passing blip. In the meantime I don't want to elevate some crackpot. Longchenpa (talk) 06:29, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  It will take some other published sources to make it wiki significant and relevant.  Zulu Papa 5 * (talk) 01:30, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  CNN, Forbes, Ars Technica. It definitely passes the notability test and should therefore be included. - Hux (talk) 07:05, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I looked at including it, but the case itself is The United States of America vs. William L. Cassidy. What it impacts is the cyberstalking law. The cyberstalking article definitely should be updated with this new decision. Longchenpa (talk) 15:08, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New source 

message: As I mentioned above, we should include the empowerments and teachings she's received. It's traditional, and other than the Rinchen Terzod, we haven't covered it. I have a preliminary list (above), though it's missing what she received in India in 1987 & 1996, and everything from '97-09. Not sure if it needs a new section or if we can include the info in some of the other sections. Longchenpa (talk) 06:36, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Where are these published? Zulu Papa 5 * (talk) 01:31, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Buddha From Brooklyn, as well as other sources. Longchenpa (talk) 15:31, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add empowerments and teachings she's received 

message: I removed the recent string of edits which have disrupted the article with WP:BLP issues.  There may be new sources to add controversial material, however they must be from reliable secondary sources and presented in a neutral tone to meet Wikipedia standards for inclusion. Zulu Papa 5 * (talk) 20:50, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Apparently people need to be educated about appropriate sources. In a particularly circular example (which proves the point) one of the references used was an archived version of this Wiki article. Longchenpa (talk) 18:27, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

text: The WP:BLP issues have been hashed out thoroughly. People don't understand that Wikipedia isn't the place for personal opinions. Longchenpa (talk) 08:06, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent BLP issues 

message: Apprecaite the contribution however, secondary sources may be required for this  to maintain WP:BLP and remain in the article.  Zulu Papa 5 * (talk) 01:14, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Secondary Sources in BLP 

message: Hey,
I would just like to ask the mods to please make a search for "Catharine Burroughs" to link directly to her page. I couldn't remember this woman's real name or dharma name, just "Catharine Burroughs," and it took me like 10 minutes to find her page. (And yes, I know that this page is the first thing that pops up when you search using that name...)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.212.212.83 (talk) 03:40, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. It's a thought. But I'm not sure what that would require. The times I've seen it have been when two pages were combined into one. Longchenpa (talk) 05:25, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate name 

message: The kapala image has been removed somehow. Looking for a new copy of it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.141.74.63 (talk) 22:29, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kapala image 

message: It seems that most of the information about Steven Seagal should be deleted from here, or moved to the Steven Seagal article, if it isn't already there; most of it isn't relevant to this particular biography. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks. AD64 (talk) 23:33, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Discussion of celebrities is definitely off-topic. I've removed it. Longchenpa (talk) 03:33, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for taking care of this, Longchenpa. Do you think that one line about Steven Seagal being the only other recognized tulku is relevant to the article? Appreciate your support. Best, AD64 (talk) 03:43, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Another thought, do we have sources that confirm that Ahkon Lhamo and Steven Seagal are the only other recognized western tulkus? I think there could be others. Thus, deleting all of the material may be the best call after all. Best, AD64 (talk) 17:13, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There are numerous other recognized western tulkus, five mentioned in the film Tulku alone. Longchenpa (talk) 09:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Steven Seagal material

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified one external link on Jetsunma Ahkon Lhamo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081120123452/http://www.sacredesignpdx.com/rinpoche_bio.htm to http://www.sacredesignpdx.com/rinpoche_bio.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've removed the section on the prison program as it was sourced only to tara dot org (the subject's own site). The link provided leads to a dead page, and a search for "prison program" results in only one page that is of no help.  petrarchan47คุก 19:33, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed - Prison program

message: The subject was referred to throughout the article as "Jetsunma." Jetsun or Jetsunma is a Tibetan title meaning "venerable" or "reverend." We don't refer to subject's by their title, only by their name. I've substituted Ahkon Lhamo throughout. Skyerise (talk) 18:26, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I noticed the change this morning. I've no objection, I think it's better for NPOV. I made a point of doing the same for the Khenchen Konchog Gyaltsen article. Longchenpa (talk) 17:14, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jetsumma 

message: Have done a complete rewrite of the article, revising hyperbolic language. Longchenpa (talk) 22:45, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-write 

message: Please see this version of the article to get an idea of the thorough POV scrubbing that has taken place over the years. Readers are getting a promotional article rather than an encyclopedic one. petrarchan47คุก 15:37, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This article will perpetually have POV issues, in large part because no one without a POV has any interest in it. An awful lot of what has been hacked out of it over time, however, needed to be, due to WP:BLP and libel concerns. We must take due care when addressing controversies and accusations. But even something as seemingly simple as whether to use Zeoli or Akhon Lhamo is going to see-saw back and forth forever as editors with different ideas of what constitutes "neutral" apply their particular points of view. —KGF0 ( T | C ) 22:35, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

text: Actually, what's happened is that we had a chopped up mess that was the result of an edit war, that was replaced with a promotional version, that is slowly being edited for a neutral tone and updated with more recent articles. The Buddha From Brooklyn came out in 1999 which was more than 20 years ago. Zeoli is in her 70's now. Longchenpa (talk) 02:54, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV help needed 

message: This is a biography of a living person. Longchenpa (talk) 02:55, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing Characterization section 

message: Some of what's in this article should be on the Kunzang Palyul Choling page (such as fundraisers -- they are for the temple, not her). Others should be re-written to indicate her personal involvement. Longchenpa (talk) 19:17, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Started the re-writes. Longchenpa (talk) 19:43, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving Kunzang Palyul Choling-specific information 

message: Having never heard of this person I came here to find out why people are angry at her. Not a line. Talk page shows evidence of repeated scrubbing. Look brothers and sisters, I understand that rants and innuendo have no place here, but where there is significant controversy, that's both notable and necessary to the facts. In this case, controversy is such that readers like me are finding out about this public figure through that alone. In such cases, most of our articles include a line in the contents called "Controversies" or "Controversy over X". Those links may lead to just one or two sentences, but they cover our encyclopedic duty.
This article needs such a section stat. Anything less casts doubt on the objectivity and reliability of our service. Laodah 23:16, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No, thanks, that's troll bait. We tried such a section in 2008 and ended up in an edit war with both students and detractors. I doubt the Wiki mods want to referee another one. Longchenpa (talk) 20:38, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

text: I agree and added a section that discusses the controversies with citations to respected newspapers and magazines like LA Times, Tricycle and so on. This way, there is at least some information about this controversial teacher here.Javier F.V. 16:49, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Incomplete

message: I'm rewriting the charitable works section to focus on her actions. There is going to be overlap, however, because of the "follow the leader" effect typical of Buddhist temples: she adopts abandoned dogs, asks the temple to follow suit, then a dog rescue is founded, etc. Kind of impossible to separate it completely and still have an accurate article. Longchenpa (talk) 23:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overlap between Kunzang Palyul Choling and this page 

message: Deleted a section that was wildly biased -- recall this is a biography of a living person. We are not going through another edit war, dragging in three Wiki moderators. We went through that in 2008. Longchenpa (talk) 13:16, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The references you removed are WP:RS, and a 2008 edit war is not sufficient justification for removing them. If you object to specific wording, please discuss the issues you have here. If there is a dispute about how these references should be included that can't be resolved here, a request for comment could be filed to get input from other editors.Dialectric (talk) 15:56, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: They are book reviews and not reliable sources. And we're not going back to the edit war, forget it. Longchenpa (talk) 02:28, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted wildly biased section 

message: At long last, we no longer have discrete sections, but rather a narrative flow using articles about her life that pick up from The Buddha From Brooklyn (published 23 years ago) through news reports in the present. Thank you for your patience. Longchenpa (talk) 06:16, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The promised rewrite is complete 

message: Agree with the change. The citation must be leftover from other material removed from the article. Longchenpa (talk) 19:45, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Steven Seagal cite