Talk:Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall/Archive 1

message: What is the purpose of the parks and ponds? Are they just decorative? Are they meaningful?
Someone put Chinese after the name of the hall, but my wife says the final character means "Picture" not "Hall" -- We don't know how to fix this. :(
PhiloVivero 23:05, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Their website has more info, as does this page. I would add more info if I had the time, but it's bedtime...so please go ahead. --Jiang 10:49, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Purpose of the Hall

message: 綠委：中正紀念堂更名 不須修法, China Times link is dead, can someone post the correct link ? This goes to a search page. Wenzi 02:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: link fix

message: Just in: it is now officially called the "國立台灣民主紀念館" - can someone confirm its official English name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.118.177.150 (talk • contribs) 
:Here's another source: --Jerrypp772000 22:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uhh, where's the source to support your statement? There are two sources that say the name has been officially changed.--Jerrypp772000 20:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup, it has been officially changed. Moving the article. John Smith's 23:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Done. The article now needs a tidy-up to reflect the name change. I've done a little bit, but if someone could help it would be appreciated. For example, I wasn't quite sure how to re-word the intro. John Smith's 23:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, I know that the memorial hall no longer exhibits the belongings and information of CKS, but I don't know much about it.--Jerrypp772000 23:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name Change Official

message: "The ponds are filled with the colourful goldfish that are also found in many sacred places and temples throughout Taiwan."
Are they koi or goldfish? And in any case, wouldn't they be found in ponds throughout China or even East Asia? --211.30.235.104
:Yeah, I read the Chinese version, and it says 錦鯉, so they're koi.--Jerry 19:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goldfish 

message: I think the situation can be summarised as follows:
* The Executive has set up a "National Taiwan Democracy Memorial Hall"
* However, the "National Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall" still exists as the law is still on the books.
* Until this discrepancy is resolved, different branches of the government and different levels of government will be using different names.
* Locals in Taipei are using different names depending on their political or other views. --129.78.64.105 05:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV description of the situation... 

message: Source:
Residents spit at the new sign. 
http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=453663&lang=eng_news&cate_img=83.jpg&cate_rss=news_Politics_TAIWAN
Also a man even took off his clothes in front of the main gate of CKSMH in an effort to show that he has balls and that Chen Shui-bian has no balls and that Chen is a girl.
:It only mentioned "a veteran", who does not represent "many local residents" that you added before. Moreover, your second instance after the article link is not mentioned in the article, and will need to be cited separately for that. Vic226說 07:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: said signs were voluntarily removed on May 25 and is reported on the front page of today's China Post. However, I can't locate the same article online.--Jiang 07:23, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Source it. Just because you claimed that there are a lot of people who did the same does not make it true. Your claims cannot attribute solely to your own statement/personal experience. Vic226說 01:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

text: You all need to calm down. Tingming, if many people did spit on it, it should be reported in the press. Perhaps you can find another article that says that. --Sumple (Talk) 07:30, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Residents spit on new "Taiwan Democracy Hall" sign 

message: Hi y'all...I would like to propose a change to the intro paragraph as it seems that we have several groups of editors who would like to push their POVs on each others. I have two proposals:
1. The National Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall (Traditional Chinese: 國立中正紀念堂) is a national memorial dedicated to the late President Chiang Kai-shek. It is located in Taipei City on the island of Taiwan, off the coast of Mainland China. On May 19, 2007, President Chen Shui-bian announced the renaming of the landmark to National Taiwan Democracy Memorial Hall (Traditional Chinese: 國立台灣民主紀念館). The controversy surrounding the legality of this move means that, in the near future, both designations are likely to be used. The structure, one of the city's defining landmarks, shares the grounds of the Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Park with the National Concert Hall and National Theater.
2. The National Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall (Traditional Chinese: 國立中正紀念堂) is a national memorial dedicated to the late President of the Republic of China, Chiang Kai-shek, which is located in Taipei. On May 19, 2007, President Chen Shui-bian announced the renaming of the landmark to National Taiwan Democracy Memorial Hall (Traditional Chinese: 國立台灣民主紀念館). The controversy surrounding the legality of this move means that, in the near future, both designations are likely to be used. The structure, one of the city's defining landmarks, shares the grounds of the Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Park with the National Concert Hall and National Theater.
The first one adds in the geographical location/description. And both remove Taiwan and Republic of China from the paragraph. Why would someone want to do this? I would, because I'm sick and tired of editors trying to push their POVs. By removing both Taiwan and Republic of China, we can avoid an editing war. On the one hand when you have just Taiwan, you'll get some people who see this as movement to say that Taiwan is independent from China or Taiwan is the name of the State and not ROC. On the other hand, when you have just Republic of China, you'll have those people who see this as a method to push a pan-Blue POV. And then when you have "Taipei City, Taiwan, Republic of China", that is a false statement as Taipei City is a "special municipality" under ROC law and is not part of "Taiwan Province". So...I like to hear you thoughts on this and to reach a consensus to end a possible editing war. Nat Tang  talk to me! | Check on my contributions!|Email Me! 03:34, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  
Removing [[Taiwan]] and [[Republic of China]] from intro paragraph.
 

message: Wiki told me this discussion existed. I looked for it elsewhere, though, and didn't see it. Maybe this is the place to post this.
I recommend combining the articles National Theater (Taiwan) and National Concert Hall (Taiwan) into one article titled National Theater and National Concert Hall (Taiwan). The article about the arts venues would remain separate from the article Chiang Kai-Shek Memorial Hall.
Terms that would forward readers to the article:
*NTCH
*NCH
*National Cultural Center
*National Cultural Center (Taiwan)
*National Taiwan Cultural Center
*National Experimental Theater (Taiwan)
*National Recital Hall (Taiwan)
*National Chiang Kai-shek Cultural Center R.O.C.
*National Chiang Kai-shek Cultural Center
*Chiang Kai-shek Cultural Center
*CKS Cultural Center
* Variant spellings using -re endings (theatre, centre).
* Variant spellings using the word culture instead of cultural.
Combining the two makes research easier because it follows the practice of the Cultural Center administration itself. The same body handles events at both buildings. The buildings share the same publications and web site. They were planned, built, and opened together. It works like the Kennedy Center in Washington DC, really: you have a theater and a concert hall and a recital hall grouped together at a locale, but all of it is the Kennedy Center. Under the circumstances it's a bit awkward to maintain two different articles because there just happen to be two buildings. You'll end up duplicating information.
Titling the article by reference to the two structures also follows the practice of the Cultural Center, which uses NTCH (National Theater and Concert Hall) as its acronym. It distinguishes the names of the buildings at the outset of the shared article. It helps introduce the acronym NTCH and helps readers recognize and remember it in conducting their own further research.
I have written an article for the purpose. Right now it exists in mirrored form under the two headings we have. I prefer to merge the two articles as I have suggested.
I would appreciate some editorial help with my citation format in HTML. My main source was the official NTCH web site. Information about the twentieth anniversary season, Classic 20, came from a Taipei Times article. Links to both are shown in the section headed "References/Links".
It has been suggested that the article for both these structures also be merged with the article for the monument to Chiang Kai-shek. This is not a good idea. The buildings exist for very different functions and are administered differently. Readers seeking information about the one want very different information, usually, than readers seeking information about the other. Trying to merge all this serves neither well. It makes an already long article longer and harder to navigate. Keeping the arts venues distinct, with a link between the two, suffices.
Keep in mind that a great deal more material exists to be provided for the National Theater and Concert Hall beyond what I've supplied. It would be a matter of legitimate encyclopedic interest, for example, to provide a list of NTCH artistic directors, to offer a historical chronology, to mention highlight performances, and to list noteworthy premiers of new plays and compositions. All of this information is out there for Wiki contributors to find and share with us. They need that room.
Alton 09:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combining articles: National Theater and National Concert Hall 

message: :As these events occurred a contrasting approach, within the ranks of the KMT, absorbed the attention of Taiwan's public. Chiang Kai-shek's great-grandson Demos Chiang (蔣友柏) told a popular magazine that the Chiang family had indeed brought suffering to many people. He said the KMT served its own interests best by admitting as much, apologizing for its role, and moving on to create its new identity as one party among many in a democratic system.[http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2007/05/29/2003362956
Have removed the above paragraph from article. Two problems: 1. that it "absorbed the attentino of Taiwan's public" is not apparent from the source cited; 2. I tried to edit it so that it is relevant to this article, but couldn't. The story seems to be about this guy's attitude to Chiang Kai-shek or family or administration, and not about the memorial itself or the legality of the renaming. Not sure it is relevant to this article. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we really need to change the "post latest news" with something more to the point. should start removing stuff and rewording as the political issue clears and the future of the site more certain.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akinkhoo (talk • contribs) 15:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New addition moved from article: 

message: I have tagged part of the last paragraph as dubious. Under the ROC Constitution, only the Legislative Yuan has the power to pass legislation. The executive arm can only pass delegated legislation authorised by authorising legislation passed by the Legislative Yuan. Unless this is some peculiar meaning of "bill" that I am not aware of, the Cultural Heritage Council is not competent to pass a "bill", that competency being solely in the domain of the legislature. I have a feeling there has been a mistranslation. Does anyone have a report on the same news item from a more reliable source? The Taipei Times article, for example, does not mention a "bill". I think it would be better described as a "regulation" or "designation" or even "inscription". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it's more of a "motion" or "resolution", especially when it comes from a non-legislative council or committee. nat.utoronto 21:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: The Democracy Hall will be having new exhibitions after the opening of the hall. Here's a news article on it. .--Jerrch 17:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exhibition