Talk:Manti (food)

message: I've never seen this "bibliography section" type of a sourcing anywhere else. It sounds like the english essays with pharaphrasing we did in the university. Can someone with a good command on how sourcing works can fix that section? I'll do it if nobody else does but I guess first I'll have to learn how to.Ombudsee 08:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone go over the sources please? 

message: Should we split the article into two as Mantı and Mantu? As far as I see Mantı (Anatolian version, namely Turkish and Armenian versions) are quite different from Mantu (the central asian versions by the Kazakh, Uzbek and the Afghan) in terms of sizes, serving, style of serving, and style of cooking (I mean look at the pictures) We can link the articles to each other and mention about the etimology and the similarities but imho it's absurd to put all of them together in the same article just because their name sound similar. Regards, Kerem Özcan (talk) 01:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Frankly, it seems to me that the Afghan mantu has more in common with the Turkish mantı - I mean they both use yoghurt, garlic and mint - than with the Kazakh or Uzbek mänti, which are comparatively bland. It's true that Turkish mantı are small, whereas the Kazakh or Uzbek mänti are large. However, the Armenian dumpling seems closer to the Kazakh/Uzbek variety than to the Turkish based solely on the size from the picture. And I can't tell from the article, what size the Afghan mantu is supposed to be. So, I think it's difficult to draw a clear line separating these dishes and we shouldn't rush into it. Selerian (talk) 17:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

text: The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the proposal was move. PeterSymonds (talk) 12:41, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting the article? 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Support per WP:ENGLISH. I believe most English sources will call them "manti" rather than "mantı". -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I have added the paragraph to the Afghan section as the regions in which mantu are consumed in Pakistan are on the Afghan border and this dish has been made popular due to close cultural links with the Badakhshan province of Northern Afghanistan. Please do not delete it again. If you wish to seperate it from the Afghanistan section, then create a new Pakistan section. [Unsigned comment by anon User:119.152.246.129 12:23 25 September 2008. Info added by --Zlerman (talk) 13:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pakistani Mantus

message: I tagged the article as unbalanced and as having disputed factual accuracy due to the following statements:
*"In Afghan cuisine, the mantu are filled with a ground lamb or beef mixture, steamed and then topped with yogurt, dried mint power and olive oil, garlic, lemon juice, and coriander." ← Overly broad, unqualified, unverifiable statements, it's implausible that no other meat is ever used for the filling, or that the topping always uses the exact same six ingredients.
*"Adding fat to meat Manti is essential, as fat makes it extra juicy and delicious." ← Pure POV. If that's the mainstream view, it should be stated as such.
*"Because the dish is so fatty, Manti is always accompanied by hot tea and it is strongly advisable not to consume any cold or chilled beverages immediately after consumption of Manti" ← Implausibly broad, unverifiable statement.
-- Gordon Ecker (talk) 22:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Balance and factual accuracy

message: Does anyone know if the name of the dish originated with Chinese "mantou" (Korean mandu)? Thanks! --152.3.130.195 (talk) 12:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin of name

message: I think the history section is in need of modification. Manti of the former Ottoman Empire is of Armenian style manti because it is distinct from the Central Asian manti of today. I wish this would have a separate category otherwise everything in the dumpling category can be described as manti including ravioli, baozi, jiaozi, wonton, mandu (Korean), khinkali, etc. What Central Asians eat as manti today is vastly different than what Armenians eat, because Armenian manti is small whereas Cenral Asian manti is apparently larger and eaten differently. Turkish manti is also small, taking after Armenian manti. In the book Armenian Food: Fact, Fiction & Folklore the authors explain that Manti is indeed of Asian origin but it was not brought by migrating Turkic tribes, but rather during the alliance of the Mongols and Armenians in the middle ages through their friendly interaction. Consequently the Armenians developed their own style of manti-making where it was later adopted by the Ottoman Turks. The mongol-Armenian alliance was some 200 years before the Ottoman period. Note that the Armenian-Mongol Alliance was with (western) Cilician Armenia, whereas the Armenians in Eastern Armenia have another style of manti called khinkali which was also brought by the Mongols by way of Georgia. In the article on Mandu, apparently in Korea mandu = manti was also brought by the Mongols further reinforcing these facts. Thus the fact remains that Armenian style manti (which is also part of Turkish cuisine but not Turkish-Azerbaijani) is distict from the manti of Central Asia - the idea may have come from there by Mongolia to Clician Armenia, but the two foods are not the same, and I would like to hear opinions on how to address this issue.Thinkfood (talk) 18:24, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armenian Cuisine II 

message: Is there any difference between Manti and Nikuman besides meat of different livestock used. If they are similar link should be added to both articles.
From the description of Nikuman and my own experience with Manti they look pretty much the same thing to me. SydykovAybek (talk) 09:32, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nikuman 

message: In Bosnian cuisine, the name manti IS known and used as well. See here, for instance: http://www.bosanskikuhar.ba/tag/klepe/ -andy 2.242.207.241 (talk) 12:24, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosnia: Klepe seems not necessarily the same thing as Manti... 

message: There is a reason I removed the source sras as unreliable. There is no such word as "mantau" in Uyghur. Go try looking it up, you will find no other source spelling it that way. Ask User:Rjanag what it is called in Uyghur.Rajmaan (talk) 17:21, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose they just misspelled mantou, when they wrote mantau. May be, they translated this text from Russian into English and didn't check the English spelling. Apart from this minor issue, I think they don't make any controversial statements. It is now mainly used as a reference for the fact that manti are also widely known in Russia (apart from pelmeni and varenyky). --Off-shell (talk) 21:38, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: That is also a problem because it isn't mantou in Uyghur either. Mantou is only used in Mandarin Chinese, where it is used to refer to steamed bread. It says it refers to "bread prepared in steam.", yet the Uyghur dish appears to be a meat filled dumpling with mutton and pumpkin. There is something seriously mixed up in that source.Rajmaan (talk) 23:26, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Looks like it is called manta in Uyghur (, , 3). --Off-shell (talk) 07:40, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The first source says manta is a loanword from Mandarin.Rajmaan (talk) 22:47, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, manta is cognate with mantou, and a common opinion is that mantou is the original word. However, an uncertainty remains due to the originally different Chinese spellings of mantou, as pointed in Davidson's Oxford Companion to Food. So the word may be borrowed from Mandarin, but the current recipe seems to be different from mantou (and also from the original mantou which was like baozi). Or is there an evidence that the recipe itself was also taken by Uyghurs from Chinese? --Off-shell (talk) 23:21, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: SRAS didn't cite where it got its information from about where manti originated. We need to use a secondary source which shows where it cited its primary source from (such as a recipe dating back to Medieval times). Otherwise the source is useless. Medieval Uyghurs were Buddhists, see Kingdom of Qocho. Their dietary habits were different from Muslims.Rajmaan (talk) 01:02, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not reliable source 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Manti (food). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Replaced archive link http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pQnvpWvjVeMJ:www.fuchsiadunlop.com/dumpling-heaven-in-adelaide/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us with https://web.archive.org/web/20160531003745/http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/dumpling-heaven-in-adelaide/ on http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/dumpling-heaven-in-adelaide/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:33, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The lede photo should be clearly a picture of manti - you can't tell what they are from just a few dumplings in a steamer. They could be pork buns or anything else. The excuse that I am trying to push some bias for "Turkish manti" is incredible, since the first image I put up was of Armenian manti and that was reverted too to push the lede photo. The reversions are also damaging to the formatting - I spaced the photos out correctly so the page looks much better then the version that is being reverted to. Seraphim System (talk) 05:21, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede photo 

message: Please, split Anatolian Turkish manti with Central Asian manti. Because Turkish manti are like Russian pelmeni or Uzbek chuchvara which are boiled in water to be cooked. Unlike Central Asian manti, which requires a multi-layer steam pot to prepare the food. It will be wise decision to put, Uzbek chuchvara, Russian pelmeni and Turkish manti into one category. Because they are exactly the same food, that's boiled and shaped to similar small forms.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.14.54.2 (talk) 01:51, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Pelmeni and chuchvara are certainly much different than the mantı I'm used to around here. Let's not jump into conclusions and lump different cuisines/cultures together, eh? --Foora (talk) 17:10, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Central Asian Manti is different 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Manti (food). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090217033337/http://economy.hankooki.com/lpage/hotissue/200901/e2009012110150797010.htm to http://economy.hankooki.com/lpage/hotissue/200901/e2009012110150797010.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:11, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: " While the Chinese word mantou has been suggested as the origin for the word manti, different Chinese characters have been used to address same food in the past which indicates the Chinese attempted to adapt a foreign word to their writing system.[2] "
The source cited is The Oxford Companion to Food (3rd ed.) by Davidson. The source states, "There's no solid evidence that the Chinese word has foreign origins" in one section, and "Mantou is the Chinese reflex of a word known all over Asia... It is almost certainly Turkic." The former suggests an origin within China, the latter among Turkic peoples. Perhaps the phrase can better reflect the ambiguity of origin, rather than taking a single approach aligned with the latter POV. Without further research and sourcing, we just won't know one way or the other.
The former is not well elaborated given the constraints of Google Books' previews. I'll do a simple exercise in reason. Having different names to refer to the same object through time is not a necessary or sufficient condition for that object to be foreign. For a country that is large, old, and linguistically diverse, one would not be surprised to find many cases of different words used to describe everyday objects either concurrently or through time. On the flip-side, obsolete words may be linguistic supporting evidence of a loaned object if they are backed up by other historicity, or by archaeology. I'm not aware of such corroborating evidence, but again, I cannot fully read the source because of a paywall.
Consider changing the sentence to (for example):
" Chinese mantou may be either the origin or a borrowing of the food known as Central Asian manti. [2]"
This way the sentence presents itself as crisp and concise - and eliminates the single-sided POV.
Facial (talk) 12:11, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caveat on Interpreting Source with Suggestion