Talk:Primary Chronicle

message: This article doesn't clearly explain in what language or languages the Primary Chronicle is written. Does anyone have a reliable source for this information? Moxfyre (ǝɹʎℲxoɯ | contrib) 01:27, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  What language? 

message: Why is Radziwiłł Chronicle not mentioned among the manuscripts? Isn't it as important as the Laurentian and Hypatian codex? --Off-shell (talk) 10:12, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radziwiłł Chronicle 

message: I found this page due to a comment filed at ANI . What I'm somewhat to confused to is: why is the article titled "Russian Primary Chronicle", if the lead, and much of the body, refers to it as the "Tale of Bygone Years"? Captain Eek Edits Ho Cap'n! 05:00, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: “in Scandinavia itself, there were no sagas of Viking triumphs and wars in Russia to match those recounting the conquest of Iceland and the British Isle’s”. Should be 'isles' but can't check source perhaps it is like that in the source? Ubilaz (talk) 07:48, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sic? 

message: Ostrowski 2018 wrote (p. 44-45) about the differences between the PVL chronology and the PVL narrative for what they say about events in the 9th and early 10th century:  I'll try to put them in a table here to visualise what he is saying. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:55, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  PVL chronology ''versus'' PVL narrative 

message: What do we think should be in the Primary Chronicle#Contents section? Right now, subsection 1 "Stories" is a bulletlist with a random sampling of stories contained in the PVL, followed by Opening date error, followed by subsection 3 "Major events", another bulletlist of random sampling of stories contained in the PVL, but now with dates added. Both the first and third subsections have many unsourced bulletpoints (part of which I myself am responsible for).
But what do we really think this section should contain? Should subsection 1 have a thematic focus, and subsection 3 a chronological focus, or somesuch (that seems to have been the original intention)? Or should it be a summary of the structure of the PVL, a bit like Kievan Chronicle#Structure? If so, we need some authoritative scholar to subdivide it for us, lest we stoop into WP:OR territory.
* Cross & SW 1930/1953 never divided the PVL into chapters (it's just "Laurentian Text" + Appendix I & II). 
* Hans Thuis (2015) does have a chapterisation (divided by reigning periods of princes of Kiev, just like Lisa Lynn Heinrich did for Kievan Chronicle#Structure), but only from the killing of Boris in 1015 onwards; the intro and narrative from 852 to 1015 is not partitioned into chapters. Thuis' table of contents is as follows:
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* I myself have been trying to give a bit of structure to Textual variants in the Primary Chronicle by grouping subsections by stories that we've got stand-alone articles (or subsections) for. I find that very convenient for navigation, as unlike with the Bible, the page and line subdivision of the PVL is not used outside of professional scholarly circles, and easily checkable and navigable. I'm using 3 or 4 sources at a time to find and connect all these data, to make it easier for myself, other editors and last but not least our readers to understand which part of the PVL they are actually reading. But as a Wikipedian, I'm not an authoritative scholar who can divide the PVL in, say, 15 chapters as Lisa did in 1977 with the Kievan Chronicle. Be that as it may, the following connections to existing articles may be made so far (numbers indicate page and line):
* 0 Introduction ("the tales of the bygone years...")
* 1–6 Generations of Noah: mixture of recyclings of the Bible, Hippolytus of Rome, George Hamartolos, John Malalas and other sources. An ethnogenesis of the Slavs on the river Danube, allegedly descending from Noah's son Japheth, mixed up with Central/Southeastern/Eastern European late antique and early medieval legends and Christian hagiography.
** 4.12 Swedes, Urmane, Rus', Agnjane, Galichane, 4.13 Volokhove, 5.22 Nortsi who are Slovenes.
** 5.23–25, 6.6–8 Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin § Second phase (900–902)
* 7.1–21 Route from the Varangians to the Greeks#History
* 7.21–9.4 Journey of Andrew the Apostle along the Dnieper from Korsun via the future site of Kyiv towards the future site of Veliky Novgorod. Christianization of Kievan Rus'#Apostolic legends.
* 9.5–10.30 Kyi, Shchek and Khoryv#Text of the Primary Chronicle 
** 9.5–21 The legendary founding of Kyiv
** 9.26–10.30 The acts of Kyi, and the death of the four siblings.
* 10:31–16:20 Polyane-centric history and ethnography (12 Dulebes#History)
* 16.21–17.3 Apparent denial of the concept of a Kyi dynasty, as the four siblings deaths are immediately followed by periods of Derevlian, other, and Khazar domination.
* 17.4–24 Prediction of Khazar downfall.
* 17.25–29 Primary Chronicle § Opening date error. Starting year 852: biblical and Byzantine chronology & Kievan regnal list starting from Oleg the Wise.
* 19.4–20:19 Calling of the Varangians#Texts
* 23 Askold and Dir#Primary Chronicle and Novgorod First Chronicle
* 25.10–21 Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin § Second phase (900–902)
* 29–32 Rusʹ–Byzantine Treaty (907)
* 32–37 Rusʹ–Byzantine Treaty (911)#Linguistics
* 46–53 Rusʹ–Byzantine Treaty (945)
* 55–61 Olga's revenge on the Derevlians. Olga of Kiev § Drevlian Uprising.
* 65.19–67.20 Siege of Kiev (968)
* 75–76 Rogneda of Polotsk#Texts
* 79 Slavic paganism#Slavic sources
* 82–83 Theodore the Varangian and his son John#Text in the Primary Chronicle
* 84–121 Conversion of Volodimer#According to the Primary Chronicle
* 132–134 Killing of Boris and aftermath. See Boris and Gleb.
* 135–141 Killing of Gleb and aftermath. See Boris and Gleb.
* 142–144 Feud of the Volodimerovichi. Bolesław I's intervention in the Kievan succession crisis
* 147–149 Battle of Listven
* 167–173 Kiev uprising of 1068
* 215.27–218.5 Eulogy of Vsevolod Yaroslavich I of Kiev. Accession of Vladimir II Monomakh.
* 218.6–226.3 Cuman (Polovtsi) invasion of Rus' (1093).
* 226.3–255 Chernigov war of succession (1093–1097).
* 256–257.13 Council of Liubech.
* 257.13–263.17 The blinding of Vasilko Rostislavich.
* 263.17–273.19 Internecine war in Rus' 1097–1100, Council of Uvetichi.
Thoughts? NLeeuw (talk) 21:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Contents" section