Talk:Pork barrel

message: Isn't this just a jargon-file style dictionary entry? --Robert Merkel 00:20 Jan 6, 2003 (UTC)
:Err, no? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew Woodcraft (talk • contribs) 00:22, 6 January 2003
:This is only one example of Pork barrel, this is not a definition.  If we're going to include this article, we need a more extensive article.  -- Zoe 01:50, 6 January 2003
::Are you volunteering? ;)2toise 13:47, 16 Oct 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Inclusion in Wikipedia

message: I learned in a social problems class that pork barrel means to try to pass a bill that is so stuffed with laws that a politician wouldn't see the extra laws. I'm not sure how to explain it really. Is this true? Jaberwocky6669 | ☎Holla! 01:52, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition

message: === alternate origin? ===
I heard that the term came from slave masters giving their slaves barrels of pork and taking pleasure in seeing them fight for it. I guess the analogy would be politicians fighting for money? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.143.43.84 (talk • contribs) , 17:05, 9 November 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I very slightly copy-edited the quote based on the text from the Online OED. Just wanted to let you know that I was actually basing that on the text and not just copy-editing for the sake of copy-editing.  —HorsePunchKid→龜 06:52, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin

message: I heard that the term came from slave masters giving their slaves barrels of pork and taking pleasure in seeing them fight for it. I guess the analogy would be politicians fighting for money? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.143.43.84 (talk • contribs) , 17:05, 9 November 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  alternate origin? 

message: Removed this phrase: The term was first used in print by E.K. Hale for his story called "Pork Barrel", published in 1865 by Frank Leslie's Illustrated Newspaper. It is derived from the practice of slaveowners giving barrels of salted pork to slaves and watching the "feeding frenzy" the slaves subsequently engaged in.  as someone has written being unable to find references for this (the  website referenced is a web journalist.) The OED says 1909, in the Westminster Gazette, for first use. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 05:27, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I very slightly copy-edited the quote based on the text from the Online OED. Just wanted to let you know that I was actually basing that on the text and not just copy-editing for the sake of copy-editing.  —HorsePunchKid→龜 06:52, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal

message: (moved all discussion of origin under this top level heading)
There is no discussion of the origin of the term in the article now. Can we add something? Is the slave owner origin the correct and only origin of the term? Suspect it goes back further... Donama (talk) 23:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin required

message: === United States focus ===
This article addresses the United States exclusively. I changed the lead to "used to describe United States government spending", someone please correct me if it's not accurate. 119 13:10, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Patronage is jobs for important though perhaps unqualified people, while the pork barrel is money from the center applied to matters of local interest.  US President James Garfield, for example, died for patronage, not pork.  Jim.henderson 16:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I removed the tag, because while there is a reference to the term having spread to other countries, nonetheless the article does indicate that the term originated in American use and that's what it should primarily be about. I disagree with it being combined with patronage as there is plenty to differentiate it, and the term is so widely used. I might recommend moving this article to "Pork barrel politics" however as that's the more common useage. 23skidoo 11:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've re-added the tag, because the main body is US-focused and "other countries than the United States" is equally US-focussed, also what's in that section is vague and not "fleshed out".  This is a very common term in Canadian politics and I believe also in the UK and Oz....and there's a clear distinction between pork barrel (in Canada, also just called "pork" or "the trough") and patronage; patronage is the appointment of political apparatchiks to plush positions, including our appointed Senate. Pork barrel is when a government member (of parliament/the legislature) - typically a cabinet member - directs public spending to their own riding (electoral district).  It's so insitutionalized in CAnada it's come to be expected, and is in fact why people often vote for their member, because of promises made to get this or that funding; really that funding is often directed at campaign backers, typically companies or companies owned by individual backers; IMO members are really just bagmen. Patronage on the other hand is more like nepotism and often indistinguishable.  Too many articles on Wikipedia are written as if US usage was the central definition/story, and that's just not right: "pork barrel in countries outside the United STates" or whatever that section title is underlines that bias, rather than removes it; the globalize template should stand until this is rectified.Skookum1 (talk) 01:01, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  World view 

message: This article addresses the United States exclusively. I changed the lead to "used to describe United States government spending", someone please correct me if it's not accurate. 119 13:10, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  United States focus 

message: I added a  citation. My concerns/suggestsion:
* Use of the term in other societies - This section is titled and written as though Wikipedia is written for Americans. Granted this term originated in the U.S. and still primarily refers to American politics but this section still should not be written this way.
* Is it perhaps correct to merge this with the patronage article? It is not clear that pork barrel and patronage really refer to different things. The implication seems to be that pork barrel refers to special interest spending in the U.S. whereas patronage refers to such spending outside the U.S. I'm not sure that is a sufficient distinction to justify two articles (and tends to give the U.S. a "special" standing which does not seem appropriate).
--Mcorazao 16:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Patronage is jobs for important though perhaps unqualified people, while the pork barrel is money from the center applied to matters of local interest.  US President James Garfield, for example, died for patronage, not pork.  Jim.henderson 16:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I removed the tag, because while there is a reference to the term having spread to other countries, nonetheless the article does indicate that the term originated in American use and that's what it should primarily be about. I disagree with it being combined with patronage as there is plenty to differentiate it, and the term is so widely used. I might recommend moving this article to "Pork barrel politics" however as that's the more common useage. 23skidoo 11:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've re-added the tag, because the main body is US-focused and "other countries than the United States" is equally US-focussed, also what's in that section is vague and not "fleshed out".  This is a very common term in Canadian politics and I believe also in the UK and Oz....and there's a clear distinction between pork barrel (in Canada, also just called "pork" or "the trough") and patronage; patronage is the appointment of political apparatchiks to plush positions, including our appointed Senate. Pork barrel is when a government member (of parliament/the legislature) - typically a cabinet member - directs public spending to their own riding (electoral district).  It's so insitutionalized in CAnada it's come to be expected, and is in fact why people often vote for their member, because of promises made to get this or that funding; really that funding is often directed at campaign backers, typically companies or companies owned by individual backers; IMO members are really just bagmen. Patronage on the other hand is more like nepotism and often indistinguishable.  Too many articles on Wikipedia are written as if US usage was the central definition/story, and that's just not right: "pork barrel in countries outside the United STates" or whatever that section title is underlines that bias, rather than removes it; the globalize template should stand until this is rectified.Skookum1 (talk) 01:01, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Globalize

message: Why is this considered a bad thing? What kind of person in his right mind, other than a communist, would give everything equally to everyone, instead of favoring those he feels are the best and/or would make the best use of it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.63.142 (talk) 19:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Negativity 

message: All the examples given here are negative ones. Are there really no examples that may have been consider pork barrel spending at a time and fulfills all the definitions of significant pork barrel spending but which is now widely consider to have been a very good thing? Nil Einne (talk) 07:06, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Examples

message: Is this really necessary?
I would've thought that to anyone with even half a brain that was obvious. There's no beef barrel article about barrels containing beef, and all this does is detract from the political meaning of the phrase. --Elfbadger (talk) 19:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barrel which pork is kept in 

message: The article was tagged in August 2007 for POV, need of an expert on the subject, cleanup and refimprove.  No comments were made on this talk page by the tagger.  I suggest that in the case of references specific cites should be sought given that there are 6 references provided.  I see no need for an expert, can't imagine where such an expert might come from.  Without comments I don't understand what the POV issues are or what cleanup is required.  Accordingly I am removing the tag pending clarification.--Matilda talk 23:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagging 

message: I am considering removing the part in the article referencing the price per square mile of the Big Dig, as it is partly false and not in the source.  The Big Dig did more than just put part of Route 93 underground, it also extended the mass pike to logan airport (underwater) and also had route 93 and route 1 run concurrently across the charles river as opposed to splitting them apart earlier.  This is a perfect example of pork barrel spending and earmarks, just the information given there (including the costs) does not include everything that was done.
:There is no supporting evidence in the article as to why the Big Dig is pork. The definition refers to government appropriation of funds to benefit a specific population (and typically refers to legislative attempts to do so and does not include monies spent as part of executive branch spending programs). There is no reference to either public money being spent, federal money being spent (one could argue that it benefits Massachusetts generally and thus any state money would not be pork) or that it was specifically legislatively appropriated. These could in fact be the case, but a public works project that was merely expensive and got more expensive does not pork make. I'll remove later if no one objects.--Conor Kenny (talk) 21:33, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Big Dig Citation 

message: Are earmarks and pork barrel politics cyclical in any way, or at least in a way that would justify a hatnote from Pork cycle? --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 04:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cyclical 

message: Last night on the Solar News Channel (Philippines) there was a story on pork barrel and this page was shown during some b-roll.  Congratulations editors.  Keep up the good work. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 03:57, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Our work shown on national television.  Keep it up. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello Waldosearchparty, 
I like how you summarized the section you edited on the Philippines and provided citations. The summary is concise and easy to read. The addition of the Hawaiian senator is interesting to add but it might also be good to provide a definition of earmarks or exactly how they differ from pork barrel politics. Where you add the information seems a little like a disconnect within that paragraph but if you tie it into to the next it might sound better. Cartersapphire (talk) 22:30, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hawaii & Philippines Edits 

message: I really like the Pork Barrel section in the Philippines but I worry it might be disproportionate to the other sections.  Maybe porkbarrel politics in Philippines might be better served as a separate page entirely or in the Philippines politics page.  I think that section is good save for a few source questions.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Waldosearchparty (talk • contribs) 23:14, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philippine Section 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It sounds like a statement from a crude "native" character on a sixties television show. Was it Google translated from Russian? Awhit003 (talk) 01:59, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The sentence: "Pork barrel originally came from storing meat." has issues.