Talk:Automotive battery

message: Could any of your battery-geniuses maybe do a little dusting of the deep cycle battery -article? I'm really just starting to learn about energy-storage like this, and felt I should flag some folks over to beef up another energy-article. Koyae (talk) 15:13, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: little dusting of the [[deep cycle battery]]

message: The  "Charging" section mentions "gassing"-- I think this term should be defined in context or linked to an explanation. I assume it refers to the production of hydrogen gas discussed under the "exploding batteries" section, but I am not 100% sure.
Dr. Queso, too lazy to log in.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.120.110.132 (talk) 19:48, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: "Charging" section mentions "gassing"

message: Some cars (I believe Porsche sells one) use Li Ion or some other form of battery because of the weight of the batteries. Other non lead acid batteries should be mentioned as cars will use alternatives more as the prices come down. It can save gas and take off a few pounds (which super cars love doing). Also mention automotive batteries used as a way to move the vehicle such as an EV or hybrid like the Prius. 209.173.186.216 (talk) 19:27, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article should mention non Lead Acid batteries 

message: Hi all,
A little explanation about what happened here. I worked on the article trying to fix the English, etc... but a few hours later, User:DV8 2XL reverted my edits. I disagreed with his/her accession and saw on the talk page that there was a flag of vandalism by User:Tisquantum, and so I requested help and a second opinion from what I thought was an admin.
Well, it looks like the one I thought was an admin (User:Tisquantum) may be a vandal, and the one I thought was a vandal (User:DV8 2XL) was an honest user. 
I apologize for my mistake. I still think the revert by User:DV8 2XL lowered the quality of the article, but I now believe they were made in good faith. I reverted everything that happened; but I still plan to work again on fixing this article :)
Tony Bruguier 03:37, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm the one that should apologize Tony, I made the revert in haste without looking closely, I hope we can work together to get this article in shape. I am responsible for the "terms used for automobile battery power ratings" section as an anon (from work) so I do have some stake the the page. Again sorry I reverted back to your last version ( with a few small changes)--DV8 2XL 09:35, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reversion history 

message: Can someone tell me the typical metal content of a lead acid car battery?
* Lead. --173.69.135.105 (talk) 00:59, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Alternator?85.158.139.100 (talk) 13:54, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typical metal content 

message: Can anyone add information about the environmental impacts of car batteries? I often wonder whether people who are buying hybrid vehicles are doing more damage due to the batteries which are required. informedbanker 16:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Environmental impacts of car batteries 

message: I have added a section on the problem of exploding batteries to address the issues already raised. I am a consulting forensic engineer, and dealt with a recent problem where a mechanic lost an eye through lifting an old battery from a car. I am posting the section because it is an unusual hazard that users should know about so as to prevent possible future problems. Peterlewis 16:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Exploding Batteries: revisited

message: I am suggesting/requesting a small amount of information on proper battery disposal be added where appropriate.Quickmythril (talk) 04:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added my 2¢ on this topic. "Core" fee at auto parts store, etc.— ¾-10 00:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Gee, my "core fee" on a new battery was $12, and I had to pay it despite not turning in an old battery.  So now I have to keep a receipt for 10 years and MAYBE avoid paying another disposal fee?--173.69.135.105 (talk) 23:58, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Recyclable

message: Hi, is the myth true that a car battery can discharging when placed directly on the ground?
Regards Chad  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.211.180.36 (talk) 09:31, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  No it's not. 98.194.39.86 (talk) 12:10, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  myth of car battery discharging when placed on ground 

message: Hello,
Does anyone know is http://www.epyon.nl/ there any differences with Nanosafe, Epyon Nano, A124 batteries?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.28.144.2 (talk) 10:15, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am wondering also about this Firefly composite battery technology-> Is is better than Nanosafe and all the rest litium batteries??http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=204&Itemid=89  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.140.250.192 (talk) 14:58, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Suggest take that topic to some other forum.  Not applicable to Automotive battery, or specific brands unless there is a clear technological variation.--173.69.135.105 (talk) 00:03, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Epyon nano batteries? 

message: I am wondering where did all the new battery tech info go from the article??? Some one has deleted all Lithium car battery //other futuristic data.
If I am correct this article should be in general about all car batteries, not only about Lead Acid batteries??
Now there is 2 similar articles about Lead Acid batteries: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery
* there are three classes of Lead-acid battery (gel, AGM-sealed, and Flooded).   Cars generally use the last two types.    Car in general refers to lead-acid - over 99% of cars on the road use this technology.  Alternative batteries deserve separate articles until such time as they become mainstream.--173.69.135.105 (talk) 00:06, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible censoring / Sabotage of article? 

message: Are the different sizes?
* Absolutely.  Motorcycles use much smaller batteries than cars, for example. Trucks with larger engines need more starting power than smaller cars. --173.69.135.105 (talk) 01:08, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  They use the cheapest battery that they can get away with.  Whatever provides the cranking amps and a minimum number of estimated cycles.  98.194.39.86 (talk) 12:12, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Car Battery Sizes? 

message: In the "Changing a battery" section, it's mentioned that some older cars had a positive ground and that it caused corrosion problems. A positive ground is counter-intuitive, so there must have been a reason for doing it in the first place. My memory is hazy, but about 50 years ago I think I read somewhere that the positive ground reduced spark plug electrode erosion. Can anyone expand on this?
--66.81.159.65 (talk) 21:01, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Positive ground 

message: Why?
Car battery is the _widely_ accepted term.
As a somewhat poor - but indicative point - compare the google hits - 90000 vs 1.6 million.
Starter battery is also an incorrect term.
The battery is used for far more - in a modern car - than simply starting.
It's used for running assorted electrics when the engine is not running, and also performs a role in regulation of the vehicles main bus voltage.
Was there a discussion anywhere prior to this move?
--Speedevil (talk) 18:15, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. An arbitrary choice, but fairly easily fixed. --Wtshymanski (talk) 03:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Rename

message: Weight ranges of common automotive battery types may be helpful.  Are they extremely heavy, light as a feather?  One might infer from "lead" that they are heavy, but for completeness I suggest information on weight may be provided.  Perhaps, even weight to power ratios and how they compare to other energy sources may be valuable as well.
:It's an ill-defined question. Which is heavier, a kilogram of bricks or a ton of feathers? According to the Interstate batteries Web site, a replacement battery for my car (two door, 6 cylinder) would weigh 44 lbs. A motorcycle or garden tractor battery would be less, (Kawasaki motor cycle 6 Volt is 1.94 lbs.)  and something in an earthmover or highway tractor would be quite a bit more (Caterpillar D9N 99.2 lbs). We could make the incredibly fatuous observation that big batteries are heavier than little batteries, but such generalizations are useless to the reader. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:54, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Weight

message: Under the Freshness section, a "top-up" charge of up to 15.1V is recommended for new (12v) batteries prior to installation. Gassing voltage is 14.4 V elsewhere in the article.  Excessive overcharging is dangerous (read "exploding batteries").   I removed material from this section until safety is verified.--96.244.247.130 (talk) 22:54, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Freshness 

message: Batteries run out every few years.  To prevent this the industry needs to build a battery with multiple chambers which run out of sulfur in each chamber.  When one chamber runs out of sulfur it moves to the next.  I think a electrolysis version of electromagnetism can devert the liquid slowly and effectively.  Say if you have a 4 chamber 12 volt.  The 12 volt chamber would divert the liquid after the sulfur runs out in one chamber to the next via cylinder holes lodge in the chamber.  The more the battery is used, the higher the holes get.  Therefore the battery lasts much longer.  This quadruples the lifespan of your standard 3 year 12 volt ac battery.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asfd777 (talk • contribs) 15:00, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battery correct capacity 

message: my charger has less AMP then my battery is that ok.  mine is at 550 only 400 and 750 were available.  Also my battery keeps discharging and I don't drive much like 1 fill up a monthMrp8196 (talk) 18:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You'd have better luck asking at the Reference Desk or possible calling into Car Talk. Recall that the battery charger can run for a long time to restore energy to the battery, but the battery's ampere rating is a measure of how much current can be drawn for a short time to crank an engine. There are many devices in car that draw current even when the car is stopped, so you'd need to talk to someone familiar with your make and model to suggest what is discharging it; even a small bulb in the glove box can run down the battery after a few days, or the standby load from all the electronic devices (alarm system, etc.) --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:46, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  charger 

message: :"All voltages are at 20 °C, and must be adjusted -0.022V/°C for temperature changes (negative temperature coefficient - lower voltage at higher temperature)."
This sentence is unclear. There are two voltages, the actual battery voltage, and the voltage in the table.
As temperature drops, the open-circuit output voltage of an actual battery drops; so battery voltage has positive temp coefficient.
To allow for low temps, you can either add a bit on to the measured voltage, or subtract a bit from the values in the table. This needs to be stated explicitly. I also find it a bit weird to talk about a bit of tabulated data having a -ve temperature coefficient or a voltage.
Also, I have seen wildly variable values for the actual temperature coefficent. I think some of this is caused by people getting muddled between °C and °F, but sometimes it varies by an order of magnitude. It probably depends on chemistry a bit. Could a reference be provided?
JBel (talk) 23:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That was very confusing. I attempted to resolve this with a table (referenced). The open circuit voltage temperature coefficient value that was in the article (0.022 V/°C) was invalid. The open-circuit voltage cannot be adjusted with a simple temperature coefficient because it is non-linear (coefficient varies with temperature).Chris goulet (talk) 04:58, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Terminal voltage

message: I've suggested a merge because the discussion (or dissenting discussion that represents the current article) indicates that this article is essentially only talking about that specific automotive battery (i.e. Lead-acid battery). There is a lot of unnecessarily repeated information, so it would be better to only have one of these pages, with the other redirecting. In the spirit of wikipedia, any automotive battery article should probably have a link or disambiguation page that directs people to the other batteries that are used in automotives, regardless of their rarity of use. gringer (talk) 12:33, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[Lead-acid battery]] 

message: Except that this is the "automotive battery" article, and most "automotive batteries" are charged twice a day, and, as claimed lower down, it only ever drops to that value after it has been left uncharged for a day, so you wouldn't expect a fully charged automotive battery to actually be at 12.6, unless there was something wrong. Perhaps use a range in the header? "12.6 - 13.8V at full charge"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.147.84.38 (talk) 23:53, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Official e.m.f. of a standing lead acid cell is 2.1 volts.  That makes a 6 cell battery 12.6 volts. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 11:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  A citation would be good - it should also give the official temperature at which this is rated. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:40, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You could try this one.  The discharge curves clearly show a little over 2.1 volts max. per cell.  The document doesn't specify the temperature, but it is usual to specify battery characteristics at 25°C (77°F) - don't ask me why.  Open circuit voltage rises as temperature falls, but the internal resistance of each cell also rises with falling temperature, so the overall effect is a drop in capacity.  The voltage temp coefficient of −0.0235 V/°C means that it will be even closer to 2.1 volts per cell at 20°C (68°F).  31.48.73.38 (talk) 18:00, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: See discussion about the temperature coefficient at the #Terminal_voltage section on this talk page. Chris goulet (talk) 05:15, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Added: "Each cell provides 2.1 volts for a total of 12.6 volts at full charge." with reference. --Cornellier (talk) 17:22, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Batteries frequently charge to over 13 volts DC.  Just put a meter on the battery while it's running, and then when the engine is off.  The charging system will be over 13 volts (usually) when the engine is running. I typically see batteries with 13.2 volts on them when parked after running a while.  This is normal.  12 volts is a rounded number.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.39.86 (talk) 12:17, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  12.6 volts at full charge. 

message: The article implies that the following are standards for battery specifications: Hot cranking amperes (HCA), Reserve capacity minutes (RCM), and Battery Council International group size. All of this needs references. None of these is defined at the BCI site. It appears HCA in particular is more of a marketing term than a testable specification.  --Cornellier (talk) 16:27, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the article doesn't really say these are "standards". I think we should leave the information in even if they are not official standards of some institute. Eric Kvaalen (talk) 16:06, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Specifications 

message: I don't agree that Peukert's law is not applicable. It has been used for decades for lead-acid batteries because it works (so long as the rate of discharge is not too low). The Peukert's law article does say (as you point out), "A 2006 critical study concluded that Peukert's equation could not be used to predict the state of charge of a battery accurately unless it is discharged at a constant current and constant temperature". That's true, but that's what the law is meant to predict! After that the paragraph goes on talking about lithium batteries. It may be that it doesn't work well for lithium batteries, but that's not our subject. Eric Kvaalen (talk) 16:06, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason for removing it is that it is tangential to the subject at best. Relevant to the lead-acid battery yes, but this article is about the SLI battery, which is defined by its function, not its chemical makeup. --Cornellier (talk) 11:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Peukert's law

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: *((cite web|last1=Darden|first1=Bill|title=CAR AND DEEP CYCLE BATTERY FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS 2015|url= jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq4.htm|website=batteryfaq.org|accessdate=6 February 2015))-71.174.185.30 (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I deleted the copy-paste from the source, http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq4.htm. See WP:COPYVIO. Also, while this information is nice, it's apparently just some guy's personal website, and not a reliable source.  --Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:48, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  lead acid battery voltage vs temperature 

message: I added section titles for the well-written text on how a battery and alternator work in modern cars. That removed that text from the lead. This article has History, Environmental impact and more, that ought to be highlighted in the lead. I am using my phone right now, which limits me in making a try at a better lead section. This article is really clear for a technical topic. —Prairieplant (talk) 18:20, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead needs more topics 

message: I put a section title on most of the old lead. This article covers more topics, History and Environmental impact, that ought to be mentioned in new paragraphs for the lead. I like how this article is easy to read while covering a technical topic.  —Prairieplant (talk) 18:27, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead section needs enhancing 

message: Another wikipedia article which is mediocre to poor. The typical automotive battery is described elsewhere. Why elsewhere? That makes no sense for something that nearly every internal combustion engine uses. Worse, the fact that for nearly all lead-acid batteries, the acid is concentrated enough to pose a hazard not only to health but to safety. Exposure to it can damage skin, and worse for other tissues. Not to mention the fact that lead is a toxic heavy metal which has the potential for severe environmental damage as well as a hazard to health. Finally, electric cars use batteries (or fuel cells) with various cell reactions, there isn't just one, and this part of the industry is changing rapidly. I doubt if "automotive battery" deserves a separate article - mostly because there is a big difference between internal combustion engines using a bit of battery power but powered with gasoline (or diesel or gas) and electric cars which are powered by electricity stored in batteries.174.130.70.61 (talk) 08:21, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: What action do you propose be taken to address your complaints? --Cornellier (talk) 10:35, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another one 

message: Hello,
Just pointing out that reference no 1 leads to some useless youtube video.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.79.168.202 (talk) 16:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Useless Reference point 1