Talk:Passacaglia

message: Sorry, I didn't intend to make the list of 20th century examples so long, but one example after another popped into my head and it got out of hand…  My intention was to show that the passacaglia didn't die with Brahms' 4th!  I'm too close to it now and can't see how to proceed; please feel free to prune.  I feel strongly that we should not have a see also List of passacaglias. 
I think the Webern, Shostakovich, Britten, and Lutoslawski give the finest and most encyclopedic examples mentioned. Rather than a list, perhaps it would be better to have a paragraph outlining these composers' use of the form? --RobertG ♬ talk 15:57, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Listcruft? 

message: I believe the La Follia theme might have been used in the soundtrack for Kubrick's Barry Lyndon.  Edit: On second thought, maybe not.  -- Pangloss
:If I remember rightly, the theme in the film is an arrangement of a movement from one of Handel's keyboard suites, which itself closely resembles La Folia. Whether either of them are passacaglias, I can't remember. --Camembert
::This may well be the case, but the soundtrack to Barry Lyndon also obsessively uses Vivaldi's Trio-Sonata in D minor, op. 1, no. 12 (RV 63, Fanna XIII:28) on the Folia ground bass.--Jerome Kohl
::: The Handel piece in BLyndon is not a Follia or P., but a Sarabande with 2 variations.Galassi 19:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barry Lyndon 

message: I have noticed over the past couple of days two attempts by anonymous editors to capitalize the German form of the term "passacaglia". These have been reverted by other editors, presumably because no explanation was given for the change. I have now once again capitalized the German word, with the explanation that, like all German nouns, Passacaglia must be capitalized. However, what those other editors did not seem to notice is that the word had a typo in it: the 'g' was omitted. Apart from capitalization, the German term (which can easily be checked on the parallel German Wikipedia article) is identical with the Italian form, which is also adopted into English.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that. It's hard to know anyone's motivations without an edit summary, especially when it doesn't seem helpful, and goes against standard convention. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 18:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're very welcome. However, as I'm sure you are aware, "standard conventions" vary from language to language, so that, when a foreign language is specifically referenced, the conventions of that language (rather than English conventions) must apply.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  German 

message: The finale of Brahms' 4th Symphony is not a passacaglia, but a chaconne. Its bass is not repeated, just the harmonic "chassis". There is a note on this affirmation (n. 9), but this own note has no extern citation. I'll remove it (it's also incoherent, becaus in Chaconne article it cites this movement). --Leonardo T. Oliveira (talk) 21:39, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but it seems to be a debate that'll never end (much like passacaglia vs chaconne itself). ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 23:07, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If you read the present article, you will find that by Brahms's time the chaconne and passacaglia were thoroughly confused, and the notion of distinguishing them by bass-line vs harmonic ostinato is only one amongst several mutually contradictory proposed solutions, made by certain theorists of the early 20th century, and largely discarded by 1950 or so. It is indeed a moot point.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 03:55, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brahms' 4th Symphony? 

message: In response to User:Hyacinth's request, I have added an image of a page from Bernardo Storace's Selva di varie compositione. Was this the right idea, or was a photograph of a performance of a passacaglia desired? In any case, there was already a manuscript page from Bach further down the page, but it looks odd to have an illustration there and not at the head.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Hyacinth, I see you have expanded the image request. Since both the Storace and Bach examples are in triple time and exhibit very plain bass ostinatos, am I to assume that neither example satisfies your criteria of legibility? They seem quite legible to me, but opinions may vary.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 02:54, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If someone said my handwriting was illegible I wouldn't tell them that indeed it was, I would surely agree and probably do it over again. Though one can't assume absolutely what is legible or illegible to another person, I feel free to assume that you are already familiar with both pieces before you saw the images in this article. Hyacinth (talk) 08:59, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, no, as a matter of fact, I had never seen the Storace before (the Bach of course I know well). It is true, however, that I have been accustomed to reading music in 16th, 17th, and 18th-century prints for many years now, as well as in manuscript (the Bach example is a quite elegant fair copy, and not difficult to read at all, especially if you are familiar with his handwriting). When you are accustomed to the particularities of a notational or engraving style, it can make a huge difference in what you regard as "legible". Most beginning students of German, for example, initially find Fraktur completely illegible, but with experience comes clarity. If you think a modern typeset example would be preferable, it would not be difficult to transcribe the first few bars of the Storace C minor example. Perhaps it would be instructive to have both the original and a transcription for comparison?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 15:46, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Photograph

message: I am surprised that the article accepts this modern term without comment.  In 17c. sources the Italian term is usually plural, passacagli or passacaglio in the singular.  The Spanish is pasacalles.  Where does the word Passacaglia come from?  I expect the term originated with ill-informed Germans, yet even for famous German works by Buxtehude and J.S. Bach, the sources read passacaglio as in the illustration of the Bach score! I don't recommend renaming the article, since the modern term is better known, but I would like to know when composers began using this term.  I should also like to see more on the connection with the Spanish guitar, and the Alfabeto sources.Finn Froding (talk) 15:50, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wikirules mandate sticking to the most common usage in ENGLISH.--Galassi (talk) 16:04, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Passacaglia?