Talk:Palestinian return to Israel

message: Infiltration is a POV word. It implies a devious intent. Why then don't Israelis refer to Illegal Jewish migration to Palestine in the mid-forties as 'Jewish Infiltration'. The casting of Palestinians as "devious" is inconsistent with NPOV.
-Sv
Hey, Sv! While I agree with your sentiment that infiltration is a loaded term, I do not like immigration either. An immigrant is usually someone who comes from one country and resettles in another country. In the case of the Palestinians, this is not the case. They were from the country, either fled or were expelled from it, and tried to return or at least to rescue abandoned property there. Furthermore, they were still living in what to them was the same country, albeit in a different region and under a different occupying power. Finally, in practically all instances they did not settle in their old homes--rather they remained refugees. In brief, I agree that infiltration is not the right word, but I don't think immigration is. Danny 01:48 Jan 27, 2003 (UTC)
Man, if I had a suggestion, I woulda put it in. ;-) It is a tough call. In general, it should be part of the larger Palestinian-Israeli complex of articles, so (and I will regret this as soon as I click Save) how about something like "Palestinian relations with Israel in the 1950s" or "Palestinian refugees' attempts to return home in the 1950s". Danny 01:59 Jan 27, 2003 (UTC)
LOL, I uberunderstand. Lets leave it as is, then. The "infiltration" article will be a redirect to here, and this page will be pruned for POV, keeping infiltration as a "common" reference. - later it can be mapped to the main article. You know that reminds me - of whats missing here, are maps- that show a schematic of related articles, in a relative heirarchy, it would be burly sofware if someone wrote it to fit the wiki. Be well. --Stevert
I dont know which term is correct because I'm not good enough at English. But Avi Shlaim himself uses the word "infiltration" to describe the "intrusions" Palestinians made in the 1950's. --BL
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This page is about immigration and is a redirect from infiltration.  There was significant amount of infiltration for various illegal purposes: theft of farm animals, theft of crops, murder and terrorism.  Should we expand this article to include both or remove the redirect has note these other activities there.  Please note this is per Benny Morris Israel's Border Wars 1949-1956.  Thanks to Zero0000 for directing me to this book.  OneVoice 12:46, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I moved to have this article undeleted b/c despite some of the problems raised, it is unique in covering two things: migration of Palestinians back to Israel and particularly the forms that took 1948-1956. I would propose that we extend it to include all Palestinian migration inwards to Green Line-demarcated Israel (1948-67 boundaries, but covering the period since 1948). New sections would cover Israeli immigration law, refer to the right of return, etc. The primary reason I restored it however is that Palestinian infiltration now redirects to Palestinian political violence, while the overwhelming majority of Palestinian border crossers were either peacefully returning to their homes or engaged in apolitical activities. They should be covered here..--Carwil 15:28, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is this article focused solely on "infiltrations"? I hadn't seen it until today and have been developing an article on Palestinian fedayeen, where much of this material may be useful actually. However, I agree with Carwil that the issue of migration should not be coupled with infiltration to the exclusion of real issues surrounding migration as cogently outlined by him above. Tiamut 02:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there any objections to moving the material related to infiltrations and fedayeen to the article Palestinian fedayeen? Tiamut 02:56, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restoring & Reorienting 

message: Having only 2 sources, one of whom is Benny Morris (a zionist historian) is insufficient. The article is written childishly and in a slipshod, unacademic manner. 
137.205.222.238 (talk) 12:55, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Calling Benny Moris "a zionist historian" is almost cynical. Morris is better described as "anti-zionist". It makes little difference unless someone is thinking along the line of "if even the zionists admit so and so it must be correct". Bbeehvh 10:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
::This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
::#There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
::#It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
::#In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:51, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing POV tag with no active discussion per [[Template:POV]] 

message: The jewish settlements started from a scratch so i dont think it's true. the new immigrants lived in tents untill houses were built. for a comic informative source look at "Salah Shabati"
--Dor25 (talk) 18:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you are misreading it, as it is ambiguous.  Some of the houses were destroyed, and some were occupied by Jewish immigrants. These things are true.  It isn't intending to say that the immigrants did the destroying. Zerotalk 23:17, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  The return of Palestinian refugees to take up permanent residence in their homes, or alternatively, if their homes had been destroyed or occupied by Jewish immigrants 

message: Adding tag to the ridiculous lead that presents Palestinians as aliens. The words "refugees" "returning" "home" are completely missing (except for the obligatory title of the article in bold). No context for how the refugees came about to be refugees. Al-Andalusi (talk) 16:54, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What's POV here is the article title - which seems hasn't been discussed on the talk page. Note that the present article doesn't only address alleged refugees but also migrant workers and marriage leading family reunification (not all of whom are refugees) in post 1967. A more neutral POV and factually accurate title, is Palestinian migration to Israel, which would cover both illegal infiltration by aliens as well as Palestinian aliens migrating to work or obtaining Israeli status via  family reunification.Icewhiz (talk) 16:59, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What is lacking from the lead is a description that there was a systematic policy that was planned and implemented to prevent the return of expelled Palestinian refugees. It seems to me that this article was initially centered on this topic, but over the years it has been purposefully diluted and polluted with propaganda about Israel's generosity to let those workers in. I suspect that this worker crap is WP:SYNTH in an article about refugees. Al-Andalusi (talk) 17:40, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV lead 

message: See discussion at Talk:Palestinian Fedayeen insurgency. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:51, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion re overlapping topics 

message: The statement "Between 30,000 and 90,000 Palestinian refugees returned to Israel as a result. Meron Benivasti states that the fact that the infiltrators were for the most part former inhabitants of the land returning for personal, economic and sentimental reasons was suppressed in Israel as it was feared that this may lead to an understanding of their motives and to the justification of their actions.[7]" is false. The source says that there were some 30k Jewish squatters and 30k INTERNALLY displaced people that were resettled. Some of the latter MAY have been returnees.
Mcdruid (talk) 08:11, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is the messy history of this article. Those numbers were in the article for some time before someone attached the Benvenisti source to them. I'm pretty sure they actually come from Benny Morris. Zerotalk 10:41, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

text: Yes, that's it. I'll change the source. Zerotalk 06:55, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The statement is still wrong according to the source cited. Mcdruid (talk) 21:36, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misinformation about returnees in 1948 to 1952 

message: The statement: "From 1993 to 2003, between 100,000 and 140,000 Palestinians from West Bank and Gaza became legal residents and have settled in Israel. After 2003, the process was halted as a result of the Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law." is accurate according to the source, but the same page on that same website shows that there were only a maximum of 19,000 family reunifications approved between 1993 and 2000 (despite the claim, family reunification requests were frozen in 2000):2k in each year 1993-1997, and 3k from 1998 to 2000. I don't know what you do when a source contradicts itself. Mcdruid (talk) 21:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  1993 to 2003 Family reunification