Talk:Cultural depictions of salamanders

message: I finally just took out the part about people confusing dragons and salamanders. I tried to clean it up conceptually to defend it, but issue was taken with the lack of source (even if it's pretty obvious). The key problem is that dragons were not commonly associated with fire until comparatively recent times, but I don't really have time to search through stacks of dragon books and find some author who happens to explicitly write about this obvious idea, that two lizard-like things associated with fire are occasionally confused and co-influential. If anyone wants to look, feel free to put it back in.Tarchon 21:38, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Salamanders and Dragons 

message: It seems disingenuous to include this illustration and then explain at length that it most likely doesn't depict a salamander. It was carried over from the ==Mythology== section of the original Salamander article. If it isn't actually a salamander why include it? If it is kept, then it's probably best to move it (and the discussion) further down the article, rather than include it in the opening paragraph. Just a thought. --Ant 00:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I'm not really sure what to do with it. The problem is that Hall says it's a salamander and it is is an extremely significant work (as far as the occult goes). I think that illustration is a lot of the reason people look at salamanders discussed in the occult and think "oh, that's clearly got nothing to do with a real salamander." Thanks to its being posted on wikimedia and in these wikipedia articles, it's also now very common on the internet, so I think it's especially important for us to make up for the mistake of earlier contributors by pointing out that the attribution is utterly wrong. This kind of erroneous information involving images is extremely viral nowadays. Tarchon 01:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Woodcut from Hall 

message: :Image:Arms-dudley-mbc.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Arms-dudley-mbc.jpg

message: This article was created by User:Tarchon  under Salamander (legendary creature), then moved (without any discussions) by User:Srnec to Salamanders in folklore and legend and finally by User:Bloodofox to Salamanders in folklore. Following the (still ongoing) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Legendary salamander in popular culture, I've renamed it to Cultural depictions of salamanders to broaden the scope (that was unnecessarily narrowed following the moves). Ping AfD participants who commented on the move (for which I believe there is a consensus for): User:Flatscan, User:Daranios, User:Zxcvbnm. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:44, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It depends on whether there are any pertinent cultural depictions of the salamander that aren't legendary. Otherwise it should be returned to its original name at Salamander (legendary creature) for consistency with the other articles in :Category:Medieval European legendary creatures.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I may have moved it without an explicit discussion, but the discussion between  and  (who spun it off from salamander, not Tarchon) under "Untitled" is about the underlying issue with the old title. I would strongly oppose a return to "Salamander (legendary creature)". Srnec (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

text: On the other hand, this fits with Cultural depictions of turtles or Cultural depictions of ravens. Although I am not 100% sure the "Cultural depictions of Foo" should remain, for consistency sake, isn't this all "Foo in popular culture"? Although since stuff like folklore are part of cultural depictions but not of popculture, it may be that the other articles need changing. Ugh, this may warrant a proper RfC at one day in the future. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:12, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer Salamander (legendary creature), sharing 's rationale. I know of one cultural depiction of the real animal-salamander: Lurchi. This article is about the creature of legend and folklore, which is mostly distinct from the real-world one. So I don't see why the less straight-forward cultural depictions of... should be preferable. It's arguably not only ...in popular culture, as it has an old tradition and was at some point believed in. There might be a more fitting descriptor than "legendary creature" to distinguish it from the real animal, but I can't think of one. Daranios (talk) 11:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I am fine with the proposed title (no objections to moving bac to the original title). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:26, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I am strongly opposed to a return to the original title. See the section above, #Untitled. Distinguishing it from the real animal is precisely what we must not do. If we applied this logic to every fanciful depiction of a real animal in a bestiary, we'd end up with all sorts of silliness. Srnec (talk) 23:21, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name