Talk:Anna Politkovskaya

message: * Of course, it's quite reliably sourced. That's what matters. NE Ent 20:39, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This is actually a good point. The fact was so notable and so widely published, that the denial was issued by Putin himself. On 10 October 2006, 2,000 demonstrators called Putin a "murderer" during his visit to Dresden, Germany. Putin replied: "This journalist was indeed a sharp critic of the present Russian authorities...but the degree of her influence over political life in Russia was extremely insignificant. She was well-known in journalistic circles, among human rights activists, in the West. I repeat, her influence over political life in Russian was minimal.Chechnya: Politkovskaya Mourned As 'Last Hope' 11 October 2006 And in my opinion murdering such a person certainly does much greater damage from the authorities' point of view, authorities that she strongly criticized, than her publications ever did.". My very best wishes (talk) 22:20, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: However, including a denial would beg the question, "What are they denying," which would inevitably lead to the assertion that the Russian government was involved... so maybe it's not such a good idea after all. GABHello! 23:13, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This is basically a fact/claim that has been published everywhere and everyone knows, or at least everyone familiar with the subject. "Hiding" that is stupid and goes against WP:NPOV. Something that everyone knows is not going to ruin anyone's reputation any more than it has been already ruined. My very best wishes (talk) 23:59, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

text: An important and nearly undisputable fact about this is that people who hired the killers were never brought to justice . Hence a number of experts (I mostly mean the books) conducted their own analysis of the case. Some quotations above are not speculations or conspiracy theories, but conclusions by experts; more about this can be found in quoted sources. Most experts agree about the involvement of the "Chechen leadership" (meaning Kadyrov) and Russian state security services (FSB) in organizing the assassination - based on people who have been arrested or convicted and other details of the criminal case. However, I think this is not really the question under discussion/voting here. Some of the most recent publications noticed 15 similar features/facts between her case and the recent murder of Nemtsov  (unfortunately, this is a Russian language source).My very best wishes (talk) 15:45, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: *Per my extensive arguments above, what is reliably sourced is the existence or rumors, conjecture, speculation, and conspiracy theorizing.  There is no dispute about that, or about the date of the murder being Putin's birthday.  What is missing, and what is required by BLP policy, is verifiable evidence in reliable sources of any actual real-world connection between the events.  Without such evidence, the implication that Putin is in some way involved, either personally or via the murder being a "gift" to him from the murderers, is a gross BLP violation and should not be in the article.In any event, an article talk page discussion may reach a local consensus concerning this issue, but it cannot override BLP policy, so the proper place for this discussion is not here, but at the BLPN thread I started here. BMK (talk) 20:56, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Off topic discussion  NE Ent 13:14, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Simply mentioning this fact does not mean that the murder was done on behest of Mr. Putin. In fact, Mr. Putin openly suggested himself (quotation above) that it was done by his enemies to discredit him. His statement was simply an additional indication of notability of this fact, discussed by nearly all sources. Hence this is not a BLP violation and required to be included per WP:NPOV. Yes, a number of RS (books that were also quoted above) claim explicitly that it was done by someone on his behalf. If that should be included is a different question. My very best wishes (talk) 17:05, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

text: We are NOT putting into the article that "the murder was done on behest of Mr. Putin" - that's a ridiculous framing of the issue (in fact most sources don't even speculate about that - the ignorance of this comment strongly suggests you haven't bothered looking at the sources provided!). Please stop trying to construct strawmen arguments. We are putting in info about the data on which the murder happened, which is mentioned in almost every source on the subject. Hence, according to WP:BLP, this is NOT a BLP violation as it is extensively sourced to reliable (including scholarly and academic) sources. Please read WP:BLP again. Volunteer Marek  01:20, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose

message: Please see this. BMK (talk) 05:15, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is well written and sourced.   I also note some very thorough and capable editors are involved already. This sounds like it needs dispute resolution services not BLP services. 97.126.235.119 (talk) 03:46, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Already enacted; see the RfC (which is a WP:DR process) above. Softlavender (talk) 06:31, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:RFC a RFC can be ended if it is moved to another dispute resolution forum. BLPN would seem o be another dispute resolution forum.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 06:00, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:RFC a RFC is held on the talk page of the affected article;  this Rfc is clearly linked from BLPN so it has equivalent visibility here. Placing the discussion here ensures that whatever the final consensus is, it will be clearly available in the archives in case the question comes up again in the future. NE Ent 13:18, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry it wasn't readily clear that this RFC was opened as an action of said BLPN.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 00:37, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, this RfC was an instance of WP:FORUMSHOPPING after one editor didn't get the outcome they wanted at WP:BLPN. Really, the discussion at WP:BLPN should've settled the issue. Volunteer Marek  20:46, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  BLPN 

message: Some of the discussion/opinions about this article may be altered/affected by the fact that there is a separate article on  Assassination of Anna Politkovskaya. Some of the new visitors to this article may be unaware of that. -- Softlavender (talk) 06:00, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The above claim is inaccurate.  In fact my edit states "That day is also the birthday of Russian president Vladimir Putin[1][2]" so it is viciously wrong to say I "removed all mention of Putin's birthday from that article".  I would appreciate a redaction  of that claim about me. Collect (talk) 16:40, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. It was BMK's two edits that removed all mention of Putin's birthday from the article. Redacted accordingly. Softlavender (talk) 16:46, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Note: There's an existing article on [[Assassination of Anna Politkovskaya]] 

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