Talk:Aluminium–air battery

message: I changed this because it was both a dogs breakfast and actually wrong. There are many references that calculate the theoretical energy density as between 6k or 8k W-h/kg (not that it really matters) so the efficiency calculation is wrong. More importantly, any efficiency calculation is misleading since it doesn't include the cost of extracting the metal from the ore in the first place (a rather important issue for primary batteries, ie when the battery is not rechargeable). Also the Zinc-air and Al-air cells are now more compatible in Wikipedia.JG17 (talk) 11:03, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Energy density

message: I removed the following: "This paints a positive outlook for the engineering potential, although the affordability remains questionable: the energy generated by combustion of  of gasoline is about  from batteries. When considering the relative energy-to-mechanical conversion efficiencies of gasoline engines versus electric motors, 1 liter of gasoline is equivalent to  of electricity
. The implication is that Al/air batteries have a break-even cost versus gasoline of around US$$ 11 for ."
I removed the above because this flawed and incomplete calculation seems to be based on an earlier incorrect alteration of the Knickle abstract of "30$/kW" to "30$/kWh". While the abstract may be wrong, $30/kWh is surely wrong too so please delete that part of the abstract if you wish and do a proper calculation for comparison. I have also reverted the Abstract 'correction' as it is just plain wrong to change a quote from a published paper without even telling us why; either here or in the article itself. In general please write something here explaining your changes and nobody will then be further confused. Only I seem to bother doing this!!JG17 (talk) 08:49, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Commercialization

message: In wikipedia's article "energy density" is information that aluminum burned on air is able to produce more than 83 MJ per litre
and 31 MJ per kilogram.But in article "aluminum battery" 
is confirmation
that aluminum gives just 16 MJ per kilo.What is correct?
What is difference in energy output between aluminum burned on air and
aluminum "burned" in battery?If battery could produce less energy than when it's burned what is problem there?Are batteries are so non-efficient?If aluminum realy could provide 83 MJ per littre it looks REALY attractive as energy source.Gasoline has just 34 MJ per littre.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.202.246.231 (talk) 18:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Aluminum burned on air vs. battery?

message: "Aluminium is one of the most plentiful materials on earth with a low cost and has the highest electrical charge storage per unit weight except for alkali metals. It has already proved itself to be a viable material in battery application: The Zaromb cell produced in 1960 stored 15 times the energy of a comparable lead acid battery and achieved 500 Wh/Kg with a plate density current of 1A/sq.cm. Salomon Zaromb working for US Philco Company and in this concept for an aluminium air cell, the anode was aluminium partnered with potassium hydroxide with air as the cathode. The main drawback was corrosion in the off condition which resulted in the production of jelly of aluminium hydroxide and the evolution of hydrogen gas. To overcome this problem Philco added inhibitors to avoid the corrosion and had a space below the cell for the aluminium hydroxide to collect. The battery had replaceable aluminium electrode plates.
"Another more recent attempt was made in 1985 by DESPIC using saline electrolyte. Additions of small quantities of tin, titanium, iridium or gallium move the corrosion potential in the negative direction. DESPIC built this cell with wedge shaped anodes which permitted mechanical recharging using sea water as electrolyte in some cases. The battery was commercially developed by ALUPOWER.
"Other attempts have involved aluminium chloride (Chloroaluminate) which is molten salt at room temperature with chlorine held in a graphite electrode. This attempt in 1988 by Gifford and Palmison gives limited capacity due to high ohmic resistance of the graphite.
"Equally significant is work by Gileardi and his team who have succeeded in depositing aluminium from organic solvents though the mechanisms of the reactions are not well understood at this time.
"Between 1990 and 1995 Eltech Research (Fairport Habour, Ohio, U.S.A.) built a mechanically recharge Aluminium battery for the PNGV program. It had 280 cells and stored 190 kWh with a peak power of 55 kW and weighed 195 kg. This battery used a pumped electrolyte system with a separate filter/precipitator to remove the Aluminium Hydroxide jelly.
"Since then, even higher ratings have been achieved but only in primary batteries i.e. where [only] a single use is applicable. Examples of this are emergency stand-by power or torpedoes. The reason for this is that there has been no way up to overcome the problem of aluminium hydroxide 'sludge' building up during the generation of electro- chemical energy. This has meant either disposal of the battery, or complete rebuilding and replenishing the active materials with no possibility of recharging the battery. The Partanen technology has overcome this barrier which means that the energy potential of an aluminium based battery can be utilised to a degree never before attainable and, radically can be recharged to over 3000 cycles.
"In all attempts to benefit the energy of aluminium is that no one has succeeded in solving the recharging except mechanically (by replacing the aluminium plate with a new one). As the right solution was not found the results were such drawbacks as aluminium hydroxide jelly, too big current resistance, corrosion problems etc.
"Europositron's Aluminum technology
"Partanen Europositron technology overcomes the existing difficulty and electropositive metal ions are reduced to metal through analytic and catalytic reactions in normal temperature and with a calculated electrical current. The flow resistance of the solution and the required excess voltage are taken into account.
"The creation of aluminium hydroxide is eliminated and recharging for large number of cycles is possible. The technology applies to all existing methods of battery production including spiral wound sandwich examples. Another advantage of the Partanen Technology is that there is no 'memory' effect as is found with many existing versions of today's batteries."
-- http://www.europositron.com/en/background.html
LossIsNotMore 20:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source sources 

message: Landry, Stuart (June 28, 2002) "Getting smaller and smaller (Letters)" Science 296(5577):2336.  Full text: 
ROBERT F. SERVICE'S ARTICLE ON PROGRESS in developing miniature fuel cells for powering small electronic devices ("Shrinking fuel cells promise power in your pocket," News Focus, 17 May, p. 1222) is interesting and encouraging from the point of view of alternate energy strategies, but I wonder if the technology described is not already obsolete. Workable miniature fuel cells are coming on the market (1). The definition of a "fuel cell" should include not only cells using hydrogen and methanol, but also metal air cells. These are often called batteries, but they are not merely electricity-storing devices. Aluminum is especially interesting because the oxidation of aluminum produces enormous amounts of energy. To extract this energy in the usable form of electricity, aluminum is oxidized in an alkaline environment to aluminum hydroxide (2). Some of the more difficult problems of miniaturizing this technology have now been overcome (3). The Trimol Group is bringing out a unit 60 mm by 35 mm by 8 mm in size, which can power a wireless telephone for 25 hours of continuous talk (1). However depressing that prospect may be for the parents of teenagers, the problem of miniaturization of fuel cells has been solved.
STUART LANDRY
Department of Biology, Department of Biology, State
University of New York, Binghamton, NY
13902-6000, USA E-mail: slandry@binghamton.edu
References and Notes
(1.) See http://www.trimolgroup.com/product_cellphone.htm
(2.) See http://www.aluminum-power.com/technology.htm 
*WayBack to 2002
**is this now http://www.eontechgroup.com/ ?
**this seems to imply they did not have rechargable cells as of 2001
(3.) See http://fuelcellmagazine.com/articles/april01-2.htm 
*I can not get this to work with the wayback machine.    LossIsNotMore 05:59, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Science'' letter 

message: This looked promising:
Cheng, Y.L., Z. Zhang, F.H. Cao, J.F. Li, J.Q. Zhang, J.M. Wang, and C.N. Cao (2004) "Cheng, YL ; Zhang, Z ; Cao, FH ; Li, JF ; Zhang, JQ ; Wang, JM ; Cao, CN" Corrosion Science 46(7):1649-1667.  Abstract: "The corrosion of aluminum alloy 2024-T3 (AA2024-T3) under thin electrolyte layers was studied in 3.0 wt% sodium chloride solutions by cathodic polarization and electrochemical impedance spectroscopy (EIS) method. The cathodic polarization measurements show that, when the electrolyte layer is thicker than 200 mu m, the oxygen reduction current is close to that of the bulk solution. But in the range of 200-100 mu m, the oxygen reduction current is inversely proportional to the layer thickness, which shows that the oxygen diffusion through the electrolyte layer is the rate-determining step for the oxygen reduction process. In the range of 100 mu m to about 58 mu m, the oxygen reduction current is slightly decreased probably due to the formation of aluminum hydroxide or the change of the diffusion pattern from 2-dimensional diffusion to one-dimensional diffusion. The further decrease in electrolyte layer thickness increase the oxygen reduction current to some extent again, because the diffusion of oxygen plays more important role in thin electrolyte layers. The EIS measurements show that the corrosion is controlled by the cathodic oxygen reduction at the initial stage, showing the largest corrosion rate at the electrolyte layer thickness of 105 mu m. But at the later stage of corrosion, the anodic process begin to affect the corrosion rates and the corrosion rates show a maximum at 170 mu m, which may be the thickness where the corrosion changes from cathodic control to anodic control. The corrosion rate under the very thin electrolyte layer (62 mu m in this study) is even smaller than that in bulk solution, this is due to that the anodic process is strongly inhibited." (22 refs.; 7 cites.)  Email: eaglezzy at zjuem dot zju dot edu dot cn.
However, when I looked at its citators, none of them had "batter" in their descriptors, and one said this: "... corrosion protection is formation of hydroxide deposits ..." which actually seems to be the problem, not the solution.  
However, this little excursion with the S.C.I. makes me think that Rainer Partanen is indeed on the right track. LossIsNotMore 04:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  2004 article already cited 7 times 

message: Can anyone read Islandic? LossIsNotMore 05:36, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ÁLMÁLMUR ORKUNNAR 

message: From sci.chem.electrochem.battery. 171.66.111.31 21:44, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More bad news 

message: Patent Number(s): FI9900563-ATitle: Method and its use in electro-chemical reactorInventor Name(s): PARTANEN R YPatent Assignee(s): PARTANEN R Y (PART-Individual)Derwent Primary Accession No.: 2000--681437Derwent Class Code(s): X16 (Electrochemical Storage)Derwent Manual Code(s): X16-A; X16-B01IPC: H01M-000/00Patent Details: 
Patent Number
Publ. Date
Main IPC
Week
Page Count
Language
FI9900563-A 
16 Sep 2000
H01M-000/00 
200067 
 
 
Application Details and Date: 
FI9900563-A 
FI000563 
15 Mar 1999
Priority Application Information and Date: 
FI000563 
15 Mar 1999 
Record 2 of 2Patent Number(s): FI9900562-ATitle: Method and its use as electro-chemical reactorInventor Name(s): PARTANEN R YPatent Assignee(s): PARTANEN R Y (PART-Individual)Derwent Primary Accession No.: 2000--681436Derwent Class Code(s): X16 (Electrochemical Storage)Derwent Manual Code(s): X16-A; X16-B01IPC: H01M-000/00Patent Details: 
Patent Number
Publ. Date
Main IPC
Week
Page Count
Language
FI9900562-A 
16 Sep 2000
H01M-000/00 
200067 
 
 
Application Details and Date: 
FI9900562-A 
FI000562 
15 Mar 1999
Priority Application Information and Date: 
FI000562 
15 Mar 1999 
171.66.111.31 22:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Finnish Patents 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Aluminium–air battery. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090328123400/http://www.ectechnic.co.uk:80/ALUMAIR.HTML to http://www.ectechnic.co.uk/ALUMAIR.HTML
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130619060658/http://driving-dutchman.com:80/long-distance-ev-travel-arrives-%E2%80%93-600-km-on-one-battery-charge to http://driving-dutchman.com/long-distance-ev-travel-arrives-%E2%80%93-600-km-on-one-battery-charge/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 16:41, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Aluminium–air battery. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070103162222/http://www.ectechnic.co.uk:80/ALUMAIR.HTML to http://www.ectechnic.co.uk/ALUMAIR.HTML
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article is only to use this battery as a range extender for cars. Just right now are only 3 methods know for summer/winter balancing:
Power to H2 -> huge under Earth storage -> CCPP power plants or fuel cells
Power to methane -> huge under Earth storage -> CCPP power plants
Power to methanol -> huge tanks -> CCPP power plants
The surplus electricity from the summer comes at all 3 only with about 30% efficiency to the winter.
Now what could be the efficiency and cost of big aluminium air batteries recycled in summer and discharged in winter?
Filled with electrolyte just when needed, discharged with the ideal speed for best efficiency.
Pege.founder (talk) 13:43, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possibility for summer/winter balancing 

message: I note last post!, so if you are an aluminum expert- ¡Please HELP!  I am trying to prepare an article based on the REVEAL model of a large tank of aluminium pellets for Seasonal thermal energy storage) combined with cogeneration and district heating  I ask you please to come and play in my sandbox = edit, mess it about  and comment on its talk page – thanks and salutations Timpo (talk) 09:19, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help me REVEAL... 

message: The article states that Aluminium–air batteries are primary batteries. I am not an expert in the field but there are several examples of secondary aluminium air batteries. E.g. 
I am therefore proposing to the edit the article, quoting this and other sources. Does anyone have an opinion on this?
Lkingscott (talk) 14:18, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Rechargeable Aluminium–air batteries