Talk:History of Moroccan Jews

message: I am changing "Jewesses" to "Jewish women" and "Jewesses were outraged" to "Jewish women were raped." (I think that's what "Jewesses were outraged" means).75.84.97.215 02:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Why has the category, Jews of West Africa, deleted?
Is not Morocco part of West Africa?
This seems cut and dry NPOV.
Dogru144 18:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion of factual material / geographic location of Morocco

message: Last edits by 84.109.96.88 look a bit POV and w/o any source. The use of the term heroic is certainly a POV one. The other thing is that the additions lack any reference or sources like "the adopted arab son who btrayed her..." I'll fix that and wait for any sources to revert it back as per 84.109.96.88 edits -- Svest 21:17, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There seems to be confusion on how she died. This page  (google translation ) in French says she was decapitated. This page  in Spanish says she died next to a well. This article  says she committed suicide by throwing herself into a well. The jewish encyclopedia says she fell near a well  indicating she was murdered quite possibly by decapitation. Arniep 22:37, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is what I meant Arniep. As long as there are many versions, than we should include them all (with sources) and not base only on one version. If you see, the whole article is a mirror of the Jewish Encyclopedia on the topic. Many things should be reviewed in the article. Hope I had time for that. Cheers -- Svest 19:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Berber jewess

message: Has anyone information, why the jewish population between 1948 and today has shrunk to less than 0,5% what it was beforehand? (a little over a thousand jews remain in Marroko in 2023)
That is a very steep decline and the people who moved out of Marroka a very likely still alive, so I hope for some of them having said something about this or can write something about this here?
I find this a relevant topic, since some pro Israel commentators have brought up the steep decline of the jewish population in muslim/arab countries in the last 70+ years, but I wasn't able to find out, why that minority vanished in those countries.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:16B8:D65:B600:945B:4D0F:B621:BE99 (talk) 14:49, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  help needed 

message: I think there should be some refernce material to the Jewish peoples during Moorish rule. It seems a bit unrealistic that the Jewish people were treated severely. Espicially when there is historic evidence showing the opposite. I think there should e additional evidence showing the positive as well as the negative.--Gnosis 02:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jews & Moors

message: Please forgive my ignorance if that is the source of my confusion, but it seems to me that  many of the citations given in this article are not complete, let alone verifiable.  For example, consider citation number 4:
Marcus Fischer, l.c. pp. 32 et seq. 
What, exactly, is l.c.?  Again, it's been a while since I've had to include a formal citation, but it seems to me that this example (and many if not most others in this artical) lacks critical information to qualify as verifiable. Unsigned comment by  User:67.155.210.46
:The article needs a major rewrite. It was a 100% copy and paste of this article in the Jewish encyclopedia. It is somehow 90% now!
:Good question. I think of 2 things. It may mean Library of Congress or something related to Library of Congress Classification. According to Jean Gray Hargrove LC Classification was originally designed to sort books at the Library of Congress and developed specifically with reference to the published literature in each subject area in that collection. Today it is used widely to organize collections in American academic and research libraries. I also think of "letter cover"!!! Cheers -- Szvest 20:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "l.c." is short for "loc. cit." or "loco citato".  It means "the same passage as the previous citation".  (Compare "op. cit.", meaning "the same book as the previous citation".) It has nothing to do with "Library of Congress". --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 09:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Sir Myles! I thought "idem/ibidem/id." was used for that purpose instead. -- Szvest 14:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citiation problems? 

message: Hello,
I have read claims that in Morocco, antisemitic riots in the late fourties and fifties targeted mainly Sephardim, while the overall attitude towards Mizrahim remained comparatively relaxed. Is that a hoax or is there any serious reality behind this story? (I would be thankful about a mail, as I don't regularly check my wikipedia account). Thank you.Jakob Stevo 03:23, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sephardim and Mizrahim 

message: Maybe a reference should be made to Haketiya. This Spanish-based dialect was spoken in Tangiers and Tetouan. Not to be confused with Ladino, another Spanish-based dialect, but spoken by Jews living in Turkey, Bulgaria and Greece. Judeo-Spanish is a term that encompasses both dialects, but they're actually quite different, although almost wholly intercomprehensible with each other and, to a somewhat lesser degree (but not much lesser) with Standard Spanish. --Abenyosef 21:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language spoken 

message: What were they named again? I don't know if it's mentioned in the article. I can't believe I forgot the name and I was living next to one. Jews here were ran out from Chefchaouen. It's late so I don't have no one to ask -.- Sabertooth 03:06, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish neighborhoods 

message: Do we need this list of surnames on this article? It seems off-topic, and there is already a link to the list of Jews from Morocco. nadav 12:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Moroccan Jewish names 

message: I am interested in this - if you take religious superstitions out of the picture, then is in't it true that moroccan jews are essentially ARABS - their genetics, their dna is arabian, no? they are closer to arabs than to the european jews. and on the subject of european jews - what is the genetic makeup of say russian jews? if you forget about the religious crap - what are the genetics?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.57.254.102 (talk) 23:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genetics 

message: You can see my rationale and comment at Talk:Moroccan Jewry#Merger proposal.    I'll be bold and do the merging myself if there are no objections in the next few days.  NickDupree (talk) 06:52, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: The book talked about here might be useful for this article. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 14:21, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  New book 

message: User:Tashfine writes:
:The article heavily relies on The Jewish Encyclopedia.com: The Unedited Full Text. Many claims regarding issues and past events such as the presence of "tribes" warring with and against Idriss I are not supported by archaeological finds or solid facts but are rather relying on unique, incomplete and unreliable sources (e.g. Marcus Fisher, Ibn Verga).
:In addition, unscientific expressions such as "a supposedly", "Later traditions attribute", "in one of the many versions of the narrative", " so and so is said to..." as well as many other similar expressions fill the text. The use of the passive voice and a poor writing style confuses the reader and the novice who is not acquainted with the History of Morocco, Spain and Portugal. Another problem with the article is that it makes unfounded assumptions in many places. For instance, the fact that there are current Moroccan Muslim names of Jewish Origins does not mean necessarily that those people were forced to convert.
:On another level, we are startled when we read the numbers of the Jews who were 'killed' by the Almowahads or died under the Merinids and the Saadites. After all, if we believe those numbers, the question that'll haunt us is: If we consider that Jews immigrated to many countries before the Spanish Expulsion and after it, what was the ratio of the Muslims to Jews in Morocco, Spain (Al Andalus) and Portugal then?
:It should be noted that the Muslims in Spain (Al Andalus) suffered under the Spanish Saint Inquisition the same ill-treatment, massacres and planned, systematic but gradual conversion as the Jews, a fact that the author (s) omit(s) to mention. The Muslims, like the Jews, suffered from a series of policies aimed at erasing their trace, obscuring their contribution and heritage in Spain, and forcing them to convert and loose their identity.
:The author(s) also label(s) Moulay Ismail, of the Alaouite Dynasty, as the ‘Cruelest of the Tyrants’ and accuse him of afflicting the Jews with heavy taxes and trying to convert them. However, we learn from the same author(s) that it is under this same ‘tyrant’ that Joseph the Toledani, a Jew, is appointed close Counselor and Minister, and the synagogues were build. The author(s) also report(s) that Moulay Ismail appointed the Jews as tax collectors and served as an arbiter between their top leaders, Maimaran, 'Chief Ruler of the Moroccan Jewish Community', and Moses ibn 'A??ar, 'Moorish Plenipotentiary' vis-à-vis Britain. Strange ways of a ‘tyrant’, isn’t it?
:It should be noted that most-if not all- historians agree that The Golden Jewish Age coincides with the Muslim rule of Spain, a big part of which was actually under Al Morabiteen (Almoravids) and (Al Mowahideen) Almowahads.
:Overall the article, like its Wikipedia French twin, lacks academic rigor and falls short of been convincing. We invite the serious reader to be alert to its many unfounded assumptions and to put the events that surrounded the Jewish immigration to Morocco, after the Spanish Expulsion of both Muslims and Jews in its historical context and to scrutinize the references and the writings in this period, bearing in mind the historical tensions between the West and the Islamic world during the times of the Reconquista, the Crusades and the colonial period.
Tom Harrison Talk 18:51, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism, moved from article 

message: The way things are phrases and the language used in this article are really biased. It doesn't read like an encyclopedic article at all. 70.187.179.139 (talk) 20:18, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias Language 

message: Please see discussion at Talk:Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries#Overlap_with_.22History_of_the_Jews_in....22_articles. Oncenawhile (talk) 10:08, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overlap with Jewish exodus article 

message: I have an issue with "When the Jews began to disperse throughout the Roman empire after the dissolution of the Jewish state in 70 CE ..." The Jews did not begin to disperse in 70 CE. There was a huge Jewish diaspora existing in Hellenic times, two centuries before the Great Revolt (First Jewish–Roman War)of 70 CE - see http://classes.maxwell.syr.edu/his301-001/jeishh_diaspora_in_greece.htm. If no rebuttal is forthcoming, I will clarify the text. Erictheenquirer (talk) 11:20, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Then why not say just "when the Jews of Judaea began to disperse". I.e. there were already plenty of diaspora Jews; after 70 CE a lot of those still in Judaea dispersed as well. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 16:55, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Under the Romans 

message: , so there's a few issues with the edit you reverted. The first is that independent of any accuracy concerns, the information is out of order: we have long and detailed sections about first the Almoravids and then the Almohads in the following subsections, we don't need an additional paragraph about them prior to those sections, and we shouldn't be discussing the Almohads prior to the Almoravids. The second issue is that this content isn't supported by sources: the Jewish virtual library citation backing up the claim that Jews were deported to Algeria says nothing about Algeria or deportation. The next paragraph describes the Almoravids and Almohads as "fanatic Muslim sects", a description which could apply to the Almohads, but not to the Almoravids––in fact, this claim is directly contradicted by content in this article, in the Almoravid section. The cited source for the at-issue content once again does not back the claims made. 
Finally, I have concerns about accuracy elsewhere in the article: the sections on the early sultans of the Alaouite dynasty appear to directly contradict this source. According to the current revision of this article , but according to JVL, . The claims in this article for that section are backed by 18th century (offline) French sources, whose actual text I have no way to access, and whose reliability I would doubt regardless. signed, Rosguill talk 17:08, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: His edit re-adding the content and saying it is "supported by sources" is either a missstatement or a flat out lie, as the JVL source mentions nothing to support the addition. , I'm reverting back to your reversion. - R9tgokunks ⭕ 23:53, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy dispute 

message: In 1033, several thousand jews were massacred in the city of Fez when the town was conquered by a Berber tribe. How can such an omission happen in such an article? Lack of historical knowledge? Or was this omitted on purpose?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1206:456F:E3A0:59AE:A959:B068:7778 (talk) 07:56, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have sources to support this claim, please add it to the article. Also, please remember to assume good faith on the part of your fellow editors. I note that the article does mention other massacres in Fez, so it seems particularly unlikely that it was intentionally omitted. signed, Rosguill talk 08:02, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I found a source that mentions it and will add it now. signed, Rosguill talk 08:05, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unbelievable: No mention is made of the Fez Massacre of Jews in 1033 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 05:10, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: The article says “and unlike the Muslim population French remains the main (and, in many cases, the exclusive) language of members of the Jewish community there.”
I grew up in Morocco in the 50’s and 60’s  my mother was a Jewish Moroccan from a well known family in Casablanca  my experience is that they, as well as most Jewish Moroccans I came in contact with (of her generation ) spoke mostly in Arabic, followed by spanish and french. 2603:8001:9A00:F078:818D:E24:684D:37DD (talk) 04:48, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discrepancy