Talk:Whiskey and Coke

message: Many other cocktails have their own pages.  I felt that it would be unfair if the Jack and Coke, a favorite of mine, was left to collect dust as a cursory reference in another article, so I spruced it up a bit, added some detail about advertising, a reference to the actual Jack Daniel's and cola product, and the IBA-style listing on the right (understanding, of course, that this beverage is not and official IBA beverage).  I'm taking out the "stub" tag, but I will leave the "orphan" tag until a few more places link here. Lioux 05:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Existence of this article

message: I also switched "Jack and coke" to "Jack and Coke" with a redirect at the old location to the new one.  This is to reflect the fact that "Coke" is short for "Coca-Cola", a proper noun, and thus IMO should be capitalized as well. Lioux 05:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name change

message: Is Jack and Coke considered a cocktail now? Do we have a source for that? Kendall-K1 (talk) 01:23, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course it's a cocktail. Just look up the definition of the word "cocktail". What's the problem? —BarrelProof (talk) 16:53, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cocktail? 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Moved to Whiskey and Coke. There is a consensus to move from Jack and Coke, with the conversation gravitating to move to Whiskey and Coke as it being a more general term. (closed by non-admin page mover)  – robertsky (talk) 06:24, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Jack and Coke →  – "Jack" is just one brand that can be used in this common U.S. southern drink. Other brands are often used as well, such as Jim Beam or Evan Williams, and  already redirects here. There isn't really a sufficient amount of distinct subject matter to support two separate articles about a cocktail in which the only difference is the brand of whiskey, so using the more general one seems more appropriate. When the title of this article was discussed three years ago, we may have gotten hung up on whether "Coke" should be changed to "cola" or not. In the southern U.S., "Coke" is frequently used to refer to any cola. Considering the effect of the combination of ingredients, it doesn't really make a big difference which brand of either ingredient is used. While the term "Coke" is often used generically, the term "Jack" is not. "Jack" only refers to the Jack Daniel's brand. Most bourbon drinkers would give you a very confused (and possibly insulted) reaction if you referred to their bourbon as "Jack". Per previously-cited Ngram evidence, "Bourbon and Coke" is a term that has been more historically dominant than "Jack and Coke" and remains in frequent use. Although Jack and Coke is currently popular, this is partly a scope question. As I mentioned,  redirects here, so the scope should include both topics, but the title doesn't currently fit the scope. Although the Jack Daniel's brand is not marketed as "bourbon", it fulfills the definition of what bourbon is (and is required to, under terms of the North American Free Trade Agreement and the laws governing production of Tennessee whiskey). See also Rum and Coke. Please also see the previous RM discussion commentary. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:32, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

text: You cut off your ngram graph too soon. "Bourbon and cola" overtook "Jack and Coke" in 2013 and now predominates by a wide margin. GA-RT-22 (talk) 18:44, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That's interesting. Here is a link with the more recent date range. It seems kind of funny that the period of around 1998–2008 looks so different in those two charts. It seems to be a side effect of the smoothing factor. Here is a link to the older time span with a smoothing factor of 1, which looks very different from the result with a smoothing factor of 6. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:49, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that graph is much help, because you've downcased both "Jack" and "Coke" and done a case-sensitive search. Hardly anyone spells "Jack" lower case, because it's a brand name. Try this:  GA-RT-22 (talk) 20:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, yes, case-sensitivity makes a big difference. Sorry about that. Here it is including more recent years (smoothing factor 1). Jack looks more popular, but this RM is about scope, since "Jack" is not a generic term and thus implies an unnecessary scope limitation. As previously remarked, the current situation is like having an article about all electric cars that's named "Tesla", an article about all fruit that's named "Apple", or an article about all cyclones that's named "Hurricane". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:52, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

text: I went back and forth and landed at whisky to match the parent article. However, doing another ngram, it seems Whiskey and Coke is more common than Whisky and Coke, so with the "e" would probably be better.--Cerebral726 (talk) 19:21, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, since it's predominantly an American cocktail, I think it should probably use the typical American spelling of "whiskey" if we do that. My understanding is that people would usually use some kind of bourbon, so I'm rather hesitant about the "whisk(e)y" idea. But hypothetically, this cocktail could be made with Early Times, for example, which is not bourbon. Early Times and Coke would probably taste about the same or better than Kentucky Gentleman and Coke, and Kentucky Gentleman is (blended) bourbon. Using "whiskey" instead of "bourbon" in the title could also help finesse the usual dispute over whether Jack Daniel's should be called bourbon or not. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:26, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

text:  I guess  works for me. I think I was the reluctant one on that. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:45, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 30 August 2022