Talk:Harry Kirkpatrick

message: What purpose does this list add to this article, out of the entire list only one has a article on them, the rest is meaningless, I propose to remove this list.--Padraig 12:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Give me a week to expand, then comeback. (James Brown at least is notable) Aatomic1 12:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Simple question, how many were arrested based on Kirkpatrick's evidencs? --Domer48 15:03, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally do not have the references to answer that question. Aatomic1 15:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Convicted

message: Henry 'Harry' Kirkpatrick (born c1958) is a former Irish National Liberation Army man turned supergrass. He had fallen out with the INLA following then Chief of Staff Dominic McGlinchey's decision to execute Kirkpatrick's lifelong friend Gerard 'Sparky' Barkley.
In February 1983 Kirkpatrick was arrested on multiple charges including the murder of two policemen, two UDR soldiers and Hugh McGinn, a Catholic member of the Territorial Army.[1]
This implies that he turned informer because of the killing of Barkley, but he was killed on the 23rd October 1983 after Kirkpatrick had turned informer, and The Guardian later reported Barkley was suspected of tipping off the police to the whereabouts of Kirkpatricks relatives that had been kidnapped, and that was a factor in his killing.--Padraig 16:30, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead paragraph was not my work; I have added what you have said to the aricle on the basis that you have the references. Aatomic1 19:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

text: You might want to rephrase the heading title to "The entire article". Aatomic1, if you're going to work on INLA articles then a copy of Deadly Divisions () is pretty much essential. Firstly - page 316. On 3 June 1983 Kirkpatrick pleaded guilty to 197 offences including five murders. He was sentenced to five life sentences without any recommendation, plus concurrent sentences on the lesser offences. The judge specifically said that a life sentence must mean imprisonment for life, unless the Secretary of State recommended an earlier release. Next - page 322. The trial ended on 18 December 1985, and 25 out of the 27 accused were found guilty. One Night In Hackney303 17:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 25 is also the number according to CAIN. Given that named people are currently being said to have been convicted of criminal offences when they weren't, I am removing the list per WP:BLP. One Night In Hackney303 18:37, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The named persons were all convicted (and a references exiist to this fact) the convictions were subsequently quashed; furthermore several of the removed names are dead. Aatomic1 18:43, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have provided two references that only twenty five people were convicted. That the convictions were quashed is not relevant, you are still naming them as being convicted of terrorist crime when they weren't. One Night In Hackney303 18:45, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Twenty-five people were sentenced for paramilitary related offences according to CAIN. My reference is to the total convicted (ie Dermot Drain got 10 Years for armed robbery). You will note that I have not stated they were convicted for terrorist crime - that is your interpretation Aatomic1 19:25, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The first source specifically refers to 27 accused, and 25 found guilty. If your list is correct why is Malachy McAllister not on it? Which reference are you claiming sources the list anyway? One Night In Hackney303 19:30, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also depending on the circumstances armed robbery is a terrorist offence in Northern Ireland, see here. One Night In Hackney303 19:38, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

text: The list you added wasn't referenced, and I asked above for the source and you have failed to disclose what it is. I refuse to indulge you by engaging in speculation. One Night In Hackney303 20:14, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, didn't pick up on that. My source is ref>INLA terrorists given life sentences after supergrass trial; The Times; 19 Dec 1985; pg2 col A /ref> Aatomic1 20:19, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Information meets WP:V and re WP:BLP it is
* Neutral point of view (NPOV)
* Verifiability
* No original research
I too want to reach consensus about what to included. How about the following edit? Aatomic1 20:47, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

text: It doesn't meet BLP. Other reliable sources dispute the number of convictions, so the full list can't go in. Also note that removal of BLP material doesn't count towards any 3RR limitation, but adding it does. One Night In Hackney303 20:54, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do not see the BLP issues that would protect you from 3RR Aatomic1 21:07, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see a problem listing people who later had their convictions quashed, therefore making them innocent of any offence charged.--Padraig 21:12, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem emphasing their innocence Aatomic1 21:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Have a look here. The fact they were convicted then won on appeal is significant. If those individuals are notable (ie, have articles) then they should be mentioned, otherwise not. One Night In Hackney303 21:13, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Lead

message: I was asked to arbitrate in this dispute, which I won't do, because I am not a arbitrator.
It may be unfair to characterise this dispute as an edit war, but two editors have now performed three reversions on this article, and it has the potential to become one, and I hope that restraint can be exercised.  Since there are BLP concerns, I won't count removals of contentious material as a WP:3RR issue (BLP is an exception to the 3RR) ... but repeatedly adding such contentious material has no exemption from 3RR.
Editors should discuss the issue, and if unable to reach agreement should use one of the paths set out Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:25, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war