Talk:Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche

message: While I personally do not doubt that His Eminence's death was indeed miraculous and that he was a highly realized being, such hagiographical usage is, I feel, not in line with a biographical encyclopedia article and I have therefore removed it. Zero sharp 20:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Miraculous" Death

message: Which date should we use as death date? I suppose the one which was entered into the public records? But which date is that? __meco 22:56, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem setting date of death 

message: Made links. Please see WP:REDLINK. Please make stubs for any red-linked article that you can. Thanks. -- Writtenonsand 23:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Made links. Please see [[WP:REDLINK]]. 

message: I question whether the level of detail in this article is necessary / appropriate for Wikipedia. -- Writtenonsand 00:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too detailed? 

message: "He was known and respected in the West for his teachings, and also for his melodic chanting voice, his artistry as a sculptor and painter, his limitless compassion, and his sense of humor. He was the source of treasured Nyingma lineage transmissions for the thousands of people whom he taught in North and South America, Asia, Australia, and Europe."
I think this is a bit much. All teachers in a lineage are important for transmissions. Any believer believes that their lineage's transmissions are treasured. Respected by whom? Limitless compassion is a Buddhist virtue but it doesn't feel objective. Would people have really referred to his painting if he hadn't been a Tulku? Secretlondon (talk) 23:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: agreed. I mean no disrespect at all to H.E. or his disciples, but this is not in line with the encyclopedia. To that end, I've added the 'peacock' template to indicate that this article needs the hagiographical tone turned down a bit. Thanks! Zero sharp (talk) 23:14, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

text: from my (admittedly limited) understanding, HE Chagdud Tulku is certainly notable (whether or not this is attested by the references I'm _not_ saying, this is  just my sense) as a fairly recent Nyingma master who had a lot of activity, translations, teachings, etc.  That said, yes, we certainly do need some outside, verifiable sources.  Zero sharp (talk) 00:03, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is stuff we need to find out. "Chagdud Gonpa centers practice Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism, primarily in the Nyingmapa tradition of Guru Padmasambhava." from here. I know basically nothing about Nyingma - maybe he is higher profile as he's worked mainly in the US? Secretlondon (talk) 00:08, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Chagdud Tulku was an extremely high profile Tulku in the West. Also, the criticism that Padma Publishing is an "arm" of Chagdud Gonpa Foundation is misplaced. Nearly all the publishers in the field were started by one school or foundation or other. For example, Tharpa Publishing was started by Kelsang Gyatso and publishes all the New Kadampa Tradition books. There are other examples. The point being that this is a reputable publisher publishing professional quality books: these aren't stapled pamphlets. When an organization is as large and as notable as Chagdud Tulku's that they have their own professional publishing company, they aren't going to submit books to other publishers. So there won't be any other in-depth sources, only mentions in more general books. This is not a valid argument that the sources aren't reliable. GlassFET 16:55, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that perspective, GlassFET Zero sharp (talk) 19:52, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think we'd take Tharpa Publishing as a reliable source on the NKT either. "Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.". This has no third party sources. Secretlondon (talk) 00:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flowery language

message: PRESS RELEASE TO THE BRAZILIAN MEDIA
THE DEATH OF HIS EMINENCE CHAGDUD TULKU RINPOCHE
 
NOVEMBER 23, 2002
 
The son of His Eminence Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche, the recently deceased
Tibetan Buddhist lama who established many meditation centers in Brazil, has
arrived from California to lead traditional Tibetan ceremonies for his
father. Jigme Tromge Rinpoche, 38, is the head of a Buddhist center in
Sebastopol, California.
 
Chagdud Rinpoche passed away following a heart failure in the early morning
hours of Sunday, November 17th, in the bedroom of his apartment at Khadro
Ling, his main center in Brazil. He is survived by his son, his wife,
Chagdud Khadro, 55, his daughter, Dawa Tromge, 32, and a half-sister,
Trinley Wangmo, who lives in Eastern Tibet.
 
Jigme Rinpoche will carry out these ceremonies in Brazil with the assistance
of several other Tibetan lamas, two of whom*Lama Chodrak Gyatso and Lama
Sonam Tsering* who have traveled to Brazil from the United States.
Ceremonies are also underway in the United States, Tibet, Nepal, India,
Switzerland, and France in the monasteries and Buddhist centers that were
under Chagdud Rinpoche's direction or associated with his tradition. His
tradition is the Nyingmapa, or "Old Translation School" of Tibetan Vajrayana
Buddhism.
 
In regard to the death of his father and the ceremonies that will be
performed, Jigme Rinpoche made the following statement:
 
 "My father had a serious heart condition for a long time. In recent years he
 has been under the care of an excellent cardiologist in São Paulo. However,
 in recent months he had foresight that he had entered the end-of-life
 transition. He cancelled a trip to the United States and instead entered a
 strict retreat at Khadro Ling. He insisted on scheduling a teaching event on
 transferring the consciousness at the moment of death, and those were the
 teachings he was giving until 9 pm on the night before his passing away.
 
 On Saturday afternoon, November 16th, I received a telephone call in
 California and was told that Rinpoche said, "I'm going to go." For a moment
 I was shocked and took the message to mean that he meant the journey of
 death. However, the caller interpreted Rinpoche's words to mean that he
 would go see his cardiologist. I relaxed a bit, but actually he did go on
 Sunday morning at about 4:15 am, when his heart failed.
 
 After his last breath, my father remained in a state of meditation for
 almost six full days that prevented the usual deterioration of his body. The
 ability to remain in a state of meditation after the breath stops is
 well-known among great Tibetan masters, but circumstances have rarely
 allowed it to occur in the West. Chagdud Rinpoche remained sitting in a
 natural, lifelike meditation posture, with little visible change of color or
 expression. During that time, no one touched his body.
 
 Until the sixth day, Friday, November 22rd, Rinpoche showed no physical
 signs that his meditation had ended. In the interim we were in constant
 consultation with a lawyer and other officials about local customs and
 regulations. Friday midday, his meditation ended and his mind separated from
 his body. Within hours, his appearance changed. He took on the signs typical
 of those occurring within the first 24 hours of death.
 
 Officials from the sanitation department inspected the body and a
 professional funeral service transported it to where it will be embalmed. As
 soon as arrangements are completed, it will be flown to Nepal, where Chagdud
 Rinpoche has a center, and very extensive ceremonies will be performed by
 many high lamas. These will continue for the seven weeks after Rinpoche's
 passing away, until January 5, 2003. At a later time, more ceremonies,
 attended by people from all over the world, will be performed and Rinpoche
 will be cremated. The laws of Nepal allow this postponement of cremation.
 
 All Tibetan ceremonies have the same central purpose, which is to purify the
 faults and obscurations that cover our mind's natural purity, and to
 generate the merit that enhances the peace and well-being of all living
 beings. Death ceremonies, in particular, powerfully reflect this intention.
 For many people, the turbulence of the moment of death may cause them to
 forget their spiritual refuge, whether it is Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, or
 any of the other spiritual traditions. For this reason their friends and
 family seek the guidance of lamas, priests, and ministers who are trained in
 the prayers and meditation that will support the deceased person in their
 transition. Likewise, in most traditions we offer lights, whether they are
 butterlamps or candles, which are symbolic of illumination overcoming
 darkness. We also make offerings in the name of the deceased. In Tibet,
 offerings would be given to monasteries. In the West, offerings are donated
 to charitable projects.
 
The death ceremonies done for a spiritual master like my father are similar
in purpose, but they are also different in that they are not performed for
his specific benefit. His Eminence Chagdud Rinpoche is capable of completely
directing his own mind through the transition of death and his vast merit is
reflected by all he has been able to accomplish. This is especially apparent
in Brazil, where he has built the first Tibetan temple in South America,
with beautiful artwork and implements of traditional designs. Even the
shrineroom's huge drum, made in Brazil, is exactly what we would expect to
see in Tibet.
Rinpoche has also left a legacy of well-trained students. He ordained three
Brazilians as lamas, in recognition of their capability to teach and guide
students. His chant master, a 17-year-old Brazilian, has a remarkable voice
and has the sound and stamina of a Tibetan chant master. Rinpoche also
trained his students in art and ritual. And, most of all, he established
many Brazilians on the spiritual path. The inner peace and meditative
insight that they find in their own lives increase the well-being of their
families, friends, and acquaintances. The ultimate intention of our
spiritual practice is to benefit all beings, close and distant, friend and
enemy, without any distinction.
 
So, when we perform ceremonies for Rinpoche, we invoke his blessing and the
blessings of all the wisdom beings in all realms of existence for the
continuance of Rinpoche's accomplishments in this life. We pray that his
blessing and our prayers will link together so that our own spiritual
aspirations will be fulfilled.
 
Rinpoche's passing away was a very rare and precious demonstration of superb
meditation. The state he achieved after his last breath is the kind of
spiritual event that is the source of legends in Tibet. It is wonderful that
it could occur here, in Brazil. Rinpoche chose to come to this country
because he saw great spiritual potential in many Brazilians. I think his
manner of dying was his very last spiritual teaching to the students and
friends he found here.
 
The generosity of the Brazilian people has been obvious not only in the
offerings toward butterlamps and ceremonies, but in the consideration shown
to us by the officials working with us. We are extremely grateful for the
religious tolerance in Brazil. As his son and his devoted student, I hope
that a great multiplicity of blessings arise in this country, and I am
committed to continuing his work here."
Well ,am finally getting around to posting this.; as to determining his death time, the Tibetan community would probably see it as that Friday, Nov. 22nd, 2002, when as Tulku Jigme notes: " Within hours, his appearance changed. He took on the signs typical  of those occurring within the first 24 hours of death."
I think this can be handled in a way in which Wikipedia doesn't necessarily endorse a belief/system, but merely reports that this is the way many Tibetan Lamas pass away.
Chokyi Lodro comes to mind as an example.  Jlpinkme Jlpinkme (talk) 02:13, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Austerlitz -- 88.72.30.4 (talk) 07:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazilian Press Release at the time of his death

message: As we know Padmasambhava has often been depicted with two of his consorts , Yeshe Tsogyal and Mandarava, at his sides, one to the right and the other to the left. Who knows the iconographic meaning ot the respective side? The wikisite Mandarava says: "When depicted with Padmasambhava, Mandarava is iconographically represented to his left." Then Yeshe Tsogyal who usually is depicted with somewhat brownish skincolor most probably must be sitting to his right.
Is this a topic here, too?
:Austerlitz -- 88.75.73.202 (talk) 10:11, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wifes and Consorts 

message: Is there a recognised reincarnation of the Chagdud lineage ? Nil Einne (talk) 07:06, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Skyerise (talk) 22:52, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reincarnation 

message: The article mentions him having a wife at the end, but doesn't say anything about him getting remarried.Sylvain1972 (talk) 22:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Wife?

message: Yeshe Tsogyal and Mandarava for example,
Jealousy among the Sangha Quoting Jeremy Hayward from his book on Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche Warrior-King of Shambhala: Remembering Chögyam Trungpa
Is there any information?
:-- 88.75.195.226 (talk) 14:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Skincolor

message: I have added :Category:Chinese people as the parent category for those born within the borders of China.  This is hardly ideal, given the controversy over China's occupation of Tibet.  However, the information in the article and external links is extremely vague about birthplace, and it is impossible to narrow this down to a specific administrative region (Kham is part of four different administrative regions).  If anyone can move this article to a lower-level geographic category, please do so.  Skinsmoke (talk) 10:43, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories 

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thread_title:  External links modified