Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Archive 2

message: Will somebody please clean-up the Dick the Bruiser article, It actually hurt my eyes trying to read it. But seriously, I'm really busy so if someone else could do it, that would be great. — Moe ε 19:28, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I edited it somewhat but I don't know enough about him to delete lines and add anything. I added his championships and a profile and categorized him too. It is still kinda hard on the eyes though due to the actual article about him. I did remove the first sentence and replace it. It is a little better. -- phatcat68 20:33, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dick the Bruiser 

message: I must say, Scott Hall is one of the most well known wrestling personalities from the last 15 years, and this article doesn't do any justice. It has too many headings, gives very little info, and really needs a clean up. If you have nothing to do, I would work on this. Mcfly85 03:58, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I had nothing better to do, so I cleaned it up a little, looks a little better. — Moe ε 16:45, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

text: It is much better, I think there still should be some more details added to the career section, IMO. Mcfly85 03:15, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scott Hall 

message: Seems like I've had this conversation before. This time it's a little different though. Seems on WWE.com they have put the profile for Hulk Hogan on there. I added Hogan to the roster list only because of that, I dont know if he signed a contract though. Although I speculate that WWE will take it off after SummerSlam. I still wouldn't trust Dave Meltzer if my life depended on it. I don't think he has strong enough inside information as others might think he does. Despit this, I added his name, then we will see after SummerSlam if he will stay on the main roster or the "sporadic" list.
This also brings up the question of should, Austin, The Rock and Mick Foley be added back to our roster too?
PS. Will someone for gosh sakes archive this page already!! — Moe ε 01:43, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hulk Hogan? 

message: I'm a little concerned with wrestler bios that contain these sections. Aren't a wrestler's best matches mainly a matter of opinion? For instance, while the section in this area for Triple H makes the disclaimer "generally regarded as," I know for a fact that Triple H's HIAC match with Shawn Michaels (included on the list) is far from considered one of his best matches by a lot of people, or even his best Hell In A Cell, of which he has fought many. The general accusation against the Michaels HIAC is that the pacing is extremely slow, and by the time that HIAC rolled around, they had already fought each-other about a hundred times already--making it less than one of his "best" or "most memorable" matches.
As far as I can see, there are no set qualifications for a match to appear on the list. It seems completely arbitrary, determined only by the writer. For that matter, unless I'm again mistaken, there are no set guidelines as to how many matches should be included on this list for each wrestler. One might as well be writing an opinion column, rather than a piece of factual information. --Pathogen 15:25, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: They are based on opinion yes, but most of those matches are considered by the WWE (as heard on RAW and other programmings) as one of the greatest matches. The example with the HIAC match is good. Most people actually think that was one of Triple H's and Shawn Michaels's best matches to date.  I think it should just be left alone for now. — Moe ε 23:41, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The WWE thinks every match is great. You don't hear JR yell "My god, what a shit match." My point is that there is no real objectivity here at all. It may be one of his best matches with Shawn Michaels, but that doesn't make it one of his best matches ever. What exactly qualifies as "most people?" --Pathogen 02:28, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Most people is refering to the people who attended the match, and people who watched the match on pay-per-view. Anyways, I think they should be taken off, but I ain't going to be the one that checks every pro wrestlers bio and removing them. That would probably take a while to remove. We should put this task under the To Do list at the top of the page. I hardly think the "memorable matches" sections should be in Wikipedia, they are not at all factual information. Bottomline, they should be removed. — Moe ε 02:44, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree. This is yet another example of listomania. Any matches that matter belong in the career section; there's no need to list them separately.  — Gwalla | Talk 03:04, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Most Memorable Matches" 

message: I know, I know, good luck getting a pro wrestling-related article to become a featured article.  But I just read through the Stone Cold Steve Austin article and I think it's one of the finest pro wrestling articles we've got.  Anyone think we should nominate it?  ekedolphin 03:37, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
:I think getting one of these articles into the "Featured Article" level is a worthy cause. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Chris Benoit, or Hulk Hogan all seem like perfect candidates to me. I performed some recent touch-ups on the Austin article, which in my opinion still may have a few too many run-on sentences. The main thing that seems to be getting in the way of a featured article nomination is that the grammar really isn't up to snuff in a lot of cases; people need to know how to construct a sentence so that it reads well. Most of my work here in the wrestling project has been grammar-related (which in my opinion is just as important as the details of the article), and there seems to be an abundance of it left to do.
::I am going to do a little work on Chris Benoit now, as the underdog is always in need of some love. . . --Pathogen 17:49, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article candidate? 

message: I created a new sub-category under the category of Professional wrestlers called the Deceased professional wrestlers. I found, hopefully, all the deceased wrestlers and put them under that sub-category to thin the big list out a little. It currently has 104 wrestlers, so that should help. PS: Also, I spotted still a bunch of wrestlers that could be put under sub-categories like American professional wrestlers. — Moe ε 04:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deceased professional wrestlers 

message: I just saw a website that said there is a wrestler named Big Guido contracted to WWE. Who I thought Big Guido was , Val Puccio, is in fact wrong. There are 2 wrestlers that go by Big Guido, the other is Michael Fury. Michael Fury is actually the one who is contracted to WWE, not Val Puccio. Sorry for the mix-up. — Moe ε 17:15, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Big Guido 

message: This user has put about 40-55 new pro-wrestling related images on Wikipedia that I belive are in copyright violation according to Wikipedia standards. Am I right about his images? If so, will you all help by putting his images under Images for deletion for me, there is a lot of them. — Moe ε
:i think if we can get him to correctly cite the image sources and and put correct tags on them maybe we can save a couple of images but you are right some do need deleating and the edits where he replaces good pictures with fuzzy ones is just silly... also if someone does talk to him can we get him not to just replace images but move the older image somewhere down the article. Paulley 08:47, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:Cno Evil]] (As well as other Users who post copyvio images)

message: This page is a pretty clear cut case of pure fiction. Please vote to delete this as soon as possible. McPhail 15:03, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: i have placed a "Articles to delete" section in the To Do list if anymore of these fake articles come up please add them there so we can go through and delete them... also add pointless non needed articles like Moppy --- Paulley 13:58, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Carly McCall]] 

message: I've just started an article on authority figures along with a short list of recent authority figure in WWE and TNA (mostly cut and paste). I don't really have much knowledge on authority figures of other promotions (e.g. WCW commissioners) along with the origins of the position and I was wondering if someone could help me by covering that area for me? -- Oakster 20:09, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure if we need this article. I don't even think I've ever heard the term used in a professional wrestling sense either. --Jtalledo (talk) 03:22, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The article should be a redirect page for search results such as WWF Commissioner and so forth. I added the "Presidents" of the WWF, but the WCW authority figures would take considerable research, given how often it changed in 1999-2000. Off the top of my head, there was Eric Bischoff, then Ric Flair and Roddy Piper, then Lance Storm, Mike Sanders and The Cat all had turns at some point. Dusty Rhodes too, I think. McPhail 17:35, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case, it sounds like a good idea. We can wikilink it from some articles like WWE RAW as well. --Jtalledo (talk) 18:08, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Authority figures 

message: Has anyone noticed the recent rise in vandalism on professional wrestling pages lately? --- Paulley 21:14, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it looks like bunch internet buddies decided to do this. It seems to be over for the most part now. --Jtalledo (talk) 21:42, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:   vandalism 

message: I've noticed that with a lot of these biographies on wrestlers, they're either too darn short (which makes you wonder if the article should be included in Wikipedia) or too darn long. The Chris Jericho article is an example of this. The biographies shouldn't be a week-by-week breakdown of what happens to a wrestler. Heck, the authorized wrestler biographies aren't like that. For some of the wrestlers with a deeper life history, there should be a lot more on the wrestler's upbringing and the career section ought to summarize the wrestler's career - outlining major accomplishments chronologically like any other biography here. Some of the more minor feuds can be mentioned, but the focus should definitely be on monumental matches and major title wins. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We really need to crack down on this.  At one point, there was a paragraph in the Rey Mysterio article that basically said "On the such and such edition of Smackdown, Eddie Guerrero cut a promo on Mysterio." Can you think of anyone who is looking for that information?  I don't know what the  rationale is in including something like that.  Not even articles on fictional characters from TV shows list their involvement on every single episode.  --Darren Jowalsen 02:25, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I agree, i have been dealing with the same problem on Batista's article, trying my best to cut down the week by week content... if something important happens in their career i would keep it (i.e new gimmick, new feud, title oppertunities and the such) but some things that are added are just not needed. ----Paulley 11:47, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pro wrestler bios 

message: Is a former participants section really necessary? --Jtalledo (talk) 23:11, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, whatever. It's no big deal. Thanks for the reply. --Jtalledo (talk) 03:32, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Former participants 

message: I just saw under the World Wrestling Entertainment roster under See Also a new article called Previous World Wrestling Federation roster. Should we keep it? — Moe ε 03:15, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  WWF Roster 

message: User:DarknessProductionsInc has moved Andrew Martin to Andrew Test Martin as Martin has legally changed his name to Andrew Test Martin (or so he says).... But even if he has changed his name it would be considered a middle name and wouldnt be used under the article title... i tried to put it back the way it was but it has not worked. --- Paulley 11:30, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunatly, i seem to be unable to rvt the moves to these two name spaces i managed to roll back one move (from Andrew Test Martin to Andrew "Test" Martin) but i cant get it back to Andrew Martin... does anyone have any suggestions before i have to resort to "Cut and Paste" ---- Paulley 16:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You should probably request a move. Cutting and pasting is frowned upon because it eliminates the edit history of the article. McPhail 17:33, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Dont worry, i had already done that.... i just got annoyed that it wouldnt let me move it back... anyway one of the admins have sorted it now --- Paulley 12:43, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Andrew Test Martin 

message: I went ahead and merged the Previous World Wrestling Entertainment roster and Previous World Wrestling Federation roster's together onto WWE's previous roster. Under the first section there may be double names. (ex. Mideon and Phinies Godwinn were a double name since they were both played by Dennis Knight.) Can someone check to see if any I missed any double names? — Moe ε 00:03, 25 September 2005 (UTC
:Can we just make these alphabetized lists with an alphabetic TOC instead? At least it will be split between pages this way. --Jtalledo (talk) 04:05, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am currently dividing it up into what years they were released, would that make it any better? — Moe ε 05:01, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged lists 

message: Hello, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper.  We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems.  Can you recommend any suitable articles?  I have already identified Stone Cold Steve Austin, Chris Benoit and Hulk Hogan, and perhaps Jesse Ventura.  What do you think? Please post all your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Walkerma 22:02, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd have to say World Wrestling Entertainment, World Championship Wrestling, and National Wrestling Alliance would be my picks (perhaps with some editing).  --HBK 22:24, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would also have to possibly nominate the Shawn Michaels, Triple H (Paul Levesque) and the Undertaker (Mark Calaway) articles. — Moe ε 23:33, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard that articles should have good lead sections because the consensus was that the lead should be what the paper version of the article is for Wikipedia 1.0. So we'd have to find some articles with leads that can stand alone in terms of describing their subject matter. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:24, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I don't think any of the professional wrestling articles are anywhere near that level of quality. Even the best articles have considerable structural problems and frequently blur fact and fiction. McPhail 15:43, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I just took a look at the criteria and I don't know of any professional wrestling articles that qualify as A or B-class. The ones mentioned do have some organization and factual issues, could use reputable citations (preferably print sources) and have some other issues as well. The Jesse Ventura one is the most promising one, but could use a citation for some of the content. --Jtalledo (talk) 19:42, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project 

message: This isnt anything special but i'd just thought i would metion that wikipedia wrestling articles are being used as references by some top websites (IGN wrestler bio and ASK PW second Q down)... i know thats what they are there for but it's just nice to see it in action --- Paulley 19:29, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  nothing really 

message: User:PWI500 has created multiple articles containing nothing other than a template. Suggestions? McPhail 23:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I know, he's trying to fill in every red link in the World Tag-Team Champions template. Personally I don't agree with having articles with just the template on it's own but whether somebody should write up some details on the wrestlers or just delete the articles is up to you. --Oakster 07:18, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Make sure the articles have been stubbed and have a category and then place them on the articles to recreate... then hopefully one of us will go on to make an article out of them --- Paulley 11:08, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[User:PWI500]]

message: Please can you guys check out Talk:World Wide Wrestling Alliance and the history of the article. Anon User:24.104.5.25 keeps removing the information placed on the article and replacing it with a heavly POV article stating that 3WA are thefts of the REAL WWWA... i have asked him to create a new article about the his promotion or add the information in a section on the article but he has not listened... any ideas --- Paulley 14:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In the same vein a user known as Susqwrestling has created an article Susquehanna Wrestling Organization... the writing of the article is very reminisant to the anon user and is a link from the anon's only non WWWA edit.. Even the two website from both the links shows a resembelance, are the users the same person???, do they/he/she work on indy promtions' websites???, or are/is they/he/she just a vandal??? i will let you decide --- Paulley 15:01, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly. This Susquehanna promotion is in Central Pennsylvania and an Reverse DNS Lookup] of 24.104.5.25 reveals that it originates from York, Pennsylvania, which is also in Central Pennsylvania. I'm not sure this Susquehanna thing should have its own article. --Jtalledo (talk) 15:30, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[World Wide Wrestling Alliance]] 

message: Okay. I haven't liked the Champion boxes - they are clunky and get really big. But :Template:WorldTagTeamChampions is just too darn huge. If someone wants to look at a champion lineage, they can look on the page of that championship. Could someone delete all the duplicate entries in the existing ones and maybe delete the WorldTagTeamChampions one as well? --Jtalledo (talk) 15:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Template:WorldTagTeamChampions is tagged for deletion - vote for or against it at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:WorldTagTeamChampions --Jtalledo (talk) 17:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Champion boxes 

message: Chaosfeary moved The Rock (entertainer) to Dwayne Johnson. Anybody else think that isn't such a great move? He's still credited as "The Rock" in his latest movies, including Doom. --Jtalledo (talk) 19:59, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would just put it back to The Rock (entertainer), simply because of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common_names) --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 20:41, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

text: *Put it back The Rock (entertainer), that's how he's billed in movies and reports say that WWE does not soley own the name anymore.--Darren Jowalsen 22:05, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved it back to The Rock (entertainer). --Jtalledo (talk) 22:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Rock moved to Dwayne Johnson 

message: Do we really need to List of WWE Women's Championship reigns by length, it seems a little trivial. There's already List of WWE Women's Champions and just a quick mention about the longest reigns in the right articles like WWE Women's Championship should suffice. --Jtalledo (talk)
::There's one for all of the current WWE belts. The most neccessary set of articles to be quite honest but I don't mind them being here. --Oakster 18:20, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The articles are a nice idea but require daily maintenance, which means that we are reliant on the creators to continue updating the articles regularly. 88.104.30.160 21:45, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's part of what I don't like about them. This data is probably available elsewhere on the web, in which case we could link to that. Otherwise, you can calculate the number of days yourself or using a simple tool that's probably available on various websites. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:12, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of WWE Women's Championship reigns by length]] 

message: There has been a massive number of times the WWE roster page has been vandalized and shifted everyday. I think something has to be done about that. Also I added a couple a new categories on the page. One is the juniors section. I thought it might need it. Also, I retitled Non-Wrestlers and Managers to Managers and Part-time wrestlers. How many people are just non-wrestlers? I think the category renaming was nessecary. Also, I took Stone Cold Steve Austin and Mick Foley and put them under those categories. I saw on the internet that Stone Cold's and Foley's contract was only for a max. number of 2 matches a year. The vandalism is probabaly worrying me the most right now though. — Moe ε 00:05, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call on the section renaming; I don't think vandalism is that big a problem, but I'll revert it if there's anything erroneous added. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:42, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  WWE Roster 

message: Recently there has been much spoiling due to the fact that Total Nonstop Action Wrestling tapes its Impact! shows in advance. I was thinking it would be great if MediaWiki (the wiki program wikipedia runs on) would allow you to add messages to pages that people are about to edit. For example, adding a template to the bottom of a page would display a message above the edit box when you open it for editing, similar to the "You're editing an out of date page!" message you see now when you're editing a version of a page that isn't the latest one.
For the pro wrestling pages I was thinking we could really use a "No spoiling, please only include events that have aired already on tv."
I was thinking about submitting a feature request to MediaWiki, and am now asking your opinions. Would this be useful and worth the effort, do you think?
↪Lakes 10:14, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Kitch recently made a template called Template:Kayfabe which he's used for recent TNA shows. I suppose we can slightly edit this or create ones based on this to use on belts, pay-per-view sections, etc. for now. The only downfall is that we can't use them for the actual wrestlers themselves as that would be indicating that there is a spoiler as such. As for the MediaWiki suggestion, I can see quite a lot of advantages over it and not just from professional wrestling articles. I personally would give MediaWiki the feature suggestion.--Oakster 14:04, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The HTML comments should suffice. We could make them more obtrusive, so we force them to read it before actually editing the list. The alternative would be to use a template, making it harder for new users to edit. We could put the notice before the calling of the template as well in the source of the template. That seems like overkill though. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:05, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiling and how to counter it 

message: This does not pertain to the discussion above. On the Current World Wrestling Entertainment roster I put a spoiler message above the Inactive List section because it could possibly spoil the debut of a wrestler or reasoning behind a wrestlers absense. I dont known if I worded it correctly though. — Moe ε 23:38, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler 

message: I noticed in a conversation I had with 69.119.152.127 that we were discussing an issue about Jim Ross and Stone Cold. He responded but under the name PWI500. PWI500 wrote on my talk page, not 5 minutes after I was talking to 69.119.152.127, about Stone Cold/JR. I'm no genius but it seems they are the same person. Isn't there some rule against this. 69.119.152.127 is a vandal and gets blocked then he creates an account as PWI500? — Moe ε 18:22, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  PWI500 and 69.119.152.127 

message: I have no idea where to put this under in the To-Do list, so I'm going to post it here instead. I've just listed some of TNA's categories that are named "Total Nonstop Action" instead of "Total Nonstop Action Wrestling" for renaming. You can check out the nomination here. --Oakster 23:10, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaming TNA categories 

message: There's some argument over whether wrestlers, specifically Kurt Angle should have El Gran Luchadore listed under their in-ring names. I don't believe they should - the names part of the infobox should be relegated to nicknames they actually used regularly. People looking at it might think they actually competed regularly under the name, which in Kurt Angle's case is particularly inaccurate since he's competed under his name for the vast majority of his career. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:15, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a question of nicknames, it's a question of a character depicted by multiple wrestlers. El Gran Luchadore was depicted by three wrestlers, Paul London, Shannon Moore and Kurt Angle, all of whom have the name included in their respective pwstatboxes. This is the same procedure that has been used for all the articles in Category:Professional wrestling gimmicks thus far. McPhail 18:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how the procedure relates to that category, but it doesn't seem appropriate to include the nickname in any of their stat boxes, since it's not a major part of their wrestling career at all, unlike their height, weight and other facts. --Jtalledo (talk) 21:21, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[El Gran Luchadore]] 

message: I was just going over some edits when I saw this rather large template. I know many of you have already noticed it. I tried to shorten it by deleting the team names. Example: LOD, Right To Censor, The Godwinns. I think PWI500 has gone a little far with his edits. Also, PWI500 has been creating articles that need some attention they are:
*Ken Stasiowski
*Kenny Stasiowski
*Dwayne Bruce
*Manabu Nakanishi
*Rey Mendoza Jr.
*Thomas Mendoza
*Rafael Garcia
*Juan Banos, Jr.
First off Ken Stasiowski and Kenny Stasiowski need to be merged together. I think all of these articles are stubbed but need to be wiki-fied. — Moe ε 00:14, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The template was put up on Templates for deletion a while ago. The consensus was to delete - I recently took out references to it on all the professional wrestler and tag team articles it was used on. --Jtalledo (talk) 00:20, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Argh. That's a bunch of new wrestler articles that might not be notable. --Jtalledo (talk) 00:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  WorldTagTeamChampions Template