Talk:Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō

message: We do not need a large word for word account from Sokka Gakkai. This is a encyclopedia and it does not need it nor the mulitple references to the organization. Nor does Soka Gakkai own the Daimoku. Thank You
Bsjapan (talk) 02:35, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Sokka Gakkai

message: I am in doubt about the final external link in the list, especially its statements about psychology. No doubt some pyschology experts are taking this line, but the statement seems like an overgeneralization. What do others think?
:I agree completely. It looks like rubbish to me. Probably an advertisement. - Nat Krause 08:38, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The questions is: Where to delete from? Does the reference to the flick have any relevance to people seriously looking for info on the subject? My instinct would be to zap the whole para, but I don't want to be accused of doing anything gratuitously. The final link looks like an ad to me too&mdashor at least an invite to try somebody's mantra out. Jim_Lockhart 08:54, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole paragraph looks weird to me. I think it should all be removed. In fact, I will remove it myself. - Nat Krause 09:16, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: In light of the addition made by User:Enumclaw, I decided to try to sort this article out a bit more. I have removed the following portions:
::Renge is the lotus flower; because the lotus blooms and seeds at the same time, the idea is that it represents the law of cause and effect,...
I've incorporated this explanation elsewhere, in the general explanation of what renge means, because the interpretation is not exclusive to Soka Gakkai (or even Nichiren Shoshu).
::Thus while adherants are literally chanting their devotion/adoration to the Lotus Sutra, in another mindset they are chanting to remind themselves that what they believe is the law of cause and effect, i.e. karma, that Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren taught.
This is a tough call because it. The "chanting their devotion [to] the Lotus Sutra" part is pretty much universal, though some schools might object to the "adoration" part. The part reading "in another mindset they are chanting to remind themselves that what they believe" is most likely exclusive to Soka Gakkai, since traditionalists would object to this interpretation on the grounds that they are not trying to "remind" themselves of anything, but rather invoke the power of Nam(u) Myoho Renge Kyo to lead them to enlightenment. In any case, I feel that interpretations exclusive to any given school should be explained in detail in the article on that school, with only passing reference in articles intended to be more general. I'd also like to note that an external link at the bottom of the page already points to an explanation of the phrase from Soka Gakkai's viewpoint.
Thoughts? Jim_Lockhart 08:30, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never heard that; someone familiar with Tendai practices will have to clarify. Nichiren himself said that Tendai and Dengyo, at least, knew of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo but never "revealed" it because the "time wasn't ripe" (as he put it--this has to do with the concept in the Lotus schools of time periods following Sakyamuni's passing), and the most widely spread notion is that Nichiren first propounded the phrase. HTH, Jim_Lockhart 7 July 2005 11:37 (UTC)
Nichiren said in one of His Gosho that Tiantai personally chanted the daimoku, but Tiantai never revealed it to others. Nichiren revealed it as the practice for Mappo, as it was His role as Bodhisattva Superior Practices. [If we assume Nichiren was Bodhisattva Jogyo]. Steve (talk) 17:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit of 6 June 2004 

message: The current text seems to claim that only Nichiren schools practice the Daimoku.  I would assume Tendai/Tiantai to have that practice as well.  Didn't Nichiren himself learn it there? Luis Dantas
:I've never heard that; someone familiar with Tendai practices will have to clarify. Nichiren himself said that Tendai and Dengyo, at least, knew of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo but never "revealed" it because the "time wasn't ripe" (as he put it--this has to do with the concept in the Lotus schools of time periods following Sakyamuni's passing), and the most widely spread notion is that Nichiren first propounded the phrase. HTH, Jim_Lockhart 7 July 2005 11:37 (UTC)
Nichiren said in one of His Gosho that Tiantai personally chanted the daimoku, but Tiantai never revealed it to others. Nichiren revealed it as the practice for Mappo, as it was His role as Bodhisattva Superior Practices. [If we assume Nichiren was Bodhisattva Jogyo]. Steve (talk) 17:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Tendai/Tiantai

message: The article stated that nam myoho renge kyo is translated as "Devotion to the Mystic Law of cause and effect that exists throughout all the sounds and vibrations of the universe", but this really overstates and confuses the matter. Although one can't realistically expect always to find a word-for-word translation, this version is more of an exegesis than a translation. There's nothing wrong with this, but it shouldn't be presented simply as "the translation" of these words. A more literal translation should be given although, of course, it's also useful to retain this longer interpretive translation that can unpack some of the meaning in the more literal version. 
To this end, I thought of giving "Hail to Dharma the Lotus Sutra" as the literal translation, and like this version as it comes close to a word-for-word rendering. . The namu part, derived from Sanskrit namas works really more like an honorific than a noun. I'd thought of "hail", "greetings", "blessed" or "dear" but didn't want to stray to far from the exegetical translation. I'd appreciate responses from others on what we could use here that would be more accurate than "devotion". 
The problem here with "Dharma" is that although relatively widely known in English, it is likely to be more confusing than clarifying. Other possible choices here would be "religion", "regulation", or "law"; keeping "mystic law" seemed reasonable. The addition of "of cause and effect" while not precisely false certainly does much more than simply translate the phrase. 
The exegetical translation was least satisfactory, as a literal translation, for the renge kyo part.  Here it explained rather than translated. The phrase "that exists throughout all the sounds and vibrations of the universe", while not especially unclear on its own terms, really adds a great deal rather than simply trying to turn the words into English. It seems better to be direct and succinct. I'd wanted to give Lotus Sutra but the problems with using "sutra" are similar to those with "dharma": both are loandwords in English that won't be clear to many readers not already familiar with Buddhism or Hinduism. "Lotus Scripture" makes it clear that there is a reference to a religious book with the name of "Lotus". Interlingua 13:31, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Translations: literal and exegetical

message: This article reads as if somebody dropped in references to some Nichren organization called SGI. I don't know much about Nichiren but I would suspect that SGI is not the only Organization that carries on this Buddhist tradition. If so, what are these references doing in this article and why are they not even explained. I know too little about this topic to be comfortable with editing the article but it feels to me as if it would be better to drop these references and the link to www.sgi.org (which is not even formatted properly) at the end of the article. It feels like somebody with little wikipedia experience wanted to just drop the name of their organization without caring about topical relevance or the ability of readers to even understand these references.
91.37.151.220 (talk) 06:58, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertisement for www.sgi.org? 

message: I removed a first person account that wasn't written in an encyclopedic style.  It should probably be rewritten if it's to go back in, but I don't think it really added to the article much.
Airosche (talk) 02:24, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed first person account 

message: This needs to show both pronunciations because not all schools of Nichiren Buddhism say Namu, which is mainly just used by Nichiren Shu, whereas Nichiren Shoshu and SGI use Nam, and it this needs to reflect this. And it isn't a polite form "O-daimoku" it's a distinct difference between the different schools, Nichiren Shu say O-daimoku, whereas Nichiren Shoshu and SGI use Daimoku. Also 経 is the modern Japanese and is more common, but in all liturgy the chinese 經 is used instead, on the Gohonzon also the older Chinese 經 is used, and so for all intents and purposes it should be 經. Mollari08 (talk) 16:36, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening paragraph and explanations 

message: This article is based on SGI propaganda pamphlets, with many language mistakes and misinterpretations (eg. "o" in invocation o-daimoku is a honorific prefix, as used with many words in Japanese) broadly present in "American-Japanese". I would suggest using serious Japanese dictionaries and handbooks. --Seibun (talk) 12:30, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistakes & Misinterpretations 

message: I propose to merge the article with an article named Nam(u) Myoho Renge Kyo
Redirect Daimoku, Odaimoku, Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and Namu Myoho Renke Kyo to the above mentioned title. Benefit: End to endless debates.--Catflap08 (talk) 16:57, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger 

message: This section is in a mess at this point--Catflap08 (talk) 20:09, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Keeping WP:PROMOTION in mind it is best to keep the article clear from one-sided promotion of certain schools. The category and wiki link to Nichiren Buddhism already do exist. --Catflap08 (talk) 10:28, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: For that other articles on all major Nichiren Schools exist already. Thats extaly why the article is the way it is - there is room for interpretation within the schools respective articles.--Catflap08 (talk) 16:17, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If your point of view is such, you may add to this article some main features of support the mantra for each school and make links to existing articles, where supporting described more fully, as done for Nipponzan-Myōhōji. --93.76.30.90 (talk) 20:50, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

text: Stop to change my edits to the talk page. The article is about the subject NOT about a Buddhist school. --Catflap08 (talk) 17:45, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Subject of the article has generated by one Buddhist, but different Buddhist schools are not equally supported it. The article will not be complete, if not describe how each school support the subject. Also must be described relations to the mantra outside Buddhism. In this regard, is mentioned the name of Mahatma Gandhi. --93.76.29.1 (talk) 18:28, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe some section could be made for sectarian interpretations. The citation given previously, though, seems very excessive. An article for a subject like this should clearly separate between scholarly and historical views, and sectarian religious viewpoints. It can include both, though, as long as the material is properly qualified and put in context. Tengu800 04:44, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: All removed materials were directly related to the subject of the article and have been added without breaking the rules. Such removal is violation of the rule WP:NOTCENSORED: articles may include images, text or links, which some people may find objectionable, when these materials are relevant to the content. The only user desirous with edit war stubbornness the deleting  was satisfied by removing restored valuable verifiable materials, which made ​​another one who contrary to common sense violated main principle WP by restriction of freedom of edits in article. --93.76.30.90 (talk) 13:47, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

text:  93.76.30.90, this article was protected by an administrator because of disruption by IP editors. You may ask for peer editing help at the Teahouse. You can get advice from an independent, experienced editor there, if you believe the WP:NOTCENSORED policy was violated.  JimRenge (talk) 14:27, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  What the disruption by IP editors means? --93.76.27.240 (talk) 05:15, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wikipedias openness sometimes attracts people who seek to exploit the site as a platform for pushing a single point of view, for promotion or giving undue weight to a minority.  JimRenge (talk) 09:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Don't write nonsense. Just prove that unfounded restriction of editing freedom the article Nam(u) Myōhō Renge Kyō  isn't administrative tyranny. --93.76.27.231 (talk) 14:46, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  The one who writes nonsense here is you. Editing in Wikipedia follows some rules and guidelines.--Catflap08 (talk) 20:40, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  WP:NPA: Comment on content, not on the contributor --93.76.27.231 (talk) 09:18, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  So? This was a comment on the content contributed. --Catflap08 (talk) 17:46, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  WP:AVOIDYOU --93.76.28.143 (talk) 10:43, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

text: m:Wiki is not paper: Although Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it is not bound by the same constraints as a paper encyclopedia or even most online encyclopedias. The length, depth, and breadth of articles in Wikipedia is virtually infinite. As Wikipedia grows, so will computing power, storage capacity, and bandwidth. While there is a practical limit to all these at any given time, Wikipedia is not likely ever to outgrow them. --93.76.30.90 (talk) 15:13, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

text: WP:NOTCENSORED: articles may include images, text or links, which some people may find objectionable, when these materials are relevant to the content. --93.76.27.240 (talk) 08:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits march 30th 2014 

message: Why are the recent additions to this article not considered to be constructive in an encyclopedia?
* addition of a picture: File:2003-12-22 Terasava & Kaufmann.jpg This picture shows Terasawa-Sensei, leader of the Ukranian section of Nipponzan Myohoji together with Frank Kaufmann, representing the Unification Church. This picture adds no valuable info about the topic. It might have been added to introduce the reader to the most venerable reverend Terasawa-Sensei and may be useful in the corresponding lemma. It appears to be promotion in the context of this article.
:: Write Namu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo on the membrane of prayer drum and chant Namu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo with its punches is a unique practice of the Buddhism branch through which the value of Namu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo became close to Mahatma Gandhi, for example . Picture of the prayer drum in hands not part with it monk peacemaker, who known around the world, is essential for the encyclopedic article on the mandala, which a significant and not necessarily Buddhist part of humanity, supporting Namu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo, chant exactly as advises Nipponzan Myohoji. It's absurdly to name advertising a mention this well-known and verifiable fact in the article on Namu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo. --93.76.29.55 (talk) 18:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you don't read the explanation under the video, read here that in one point of Earth the celebration of 750 anniversary of Namu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo has gathered many people of different faiths including atheists. This fact is fixed on the video from which you not willing to extract understanding that Namu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo is known and is valuable not only for just a few individual branches of one Buddhism direction. --93.76.27.240 (talk) 04:15, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  You have removed in vain the picture of Namu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo stone Such stones are exist and meet not only in Japan but also in Britain, India, and even in Ukraine. The reader has a right to know how they may look and you can't take away from him that right. --93.76.30.157 (talk) 15:48, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

text: * How this and previous point is associated with advertising Nipponzan Myohoji? --93.76.30.157 (talk) 15:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

text: * This picture is very useful. Gohonzon calligraphy is presented on the explanatory picture by printed characters, which are described in the article text. For a reader is more comfortable to compare the printed symbols in article text and on explanatory picture for easier recognizing them in calligraphy. Please, restore explanatory picture in article. --93.76.30.90 (talk) 12:16, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The Chinese characters are already present in the main body of the text. This article is about Nam(u) Myoho Renge Kyo, there exists already a separate article about the gohonzon where a more detailed explanation (in English) might be fitting. JimRenge (talk) 13:19, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Is written much on gohonzon. The reader of this article should quickly be sure that Nam(u) Myoho Renge Kyo is really written in its center. --93.76.30.90 (talk) 14:00, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

text: @ the IP-user(s) normally one answers to someone’s post directly underneath the end of the thread - not in the middle of someone else’s post. Might be a good idea to have a wee wander and look at other talk pages. Alternatively you can quote the post one wishes to reply to. --Catflap08 (talk) 18:00, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: You should not wage edit war for the sake of removing relevant, valuable and verifiable information in Namu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo article. Then we would not have abnormal discussions. --93.76.27.240 (talk) 04:44, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

text: WP:NOTCENSORED: articles may include images, text or links, which some people may find objectionable, when these materials are relevant to the content. --93.76.27.240 (talk) 08:41, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertisement for Nipponzan Myohoji 

message: To whom it might concern in all those anonymous IP-edits. This mantra is practised  by more schools than articles on which even exist within Wikipedia. What is so difficult into accepting that? Links exist within this article to all major schools of Nichiren Buddhism which in turn leads to all lemmas of major schools of thought that are represented within Wikipedia. In the respective  article one can can ponder on to one's hearts content what NMRK is all about. It just seems to me, being a private opinion, that those who are adherents of organisations that claim to be peace loving, walks and UN engagement whatsoever, seem to be the most fierce to proclaim superiority. This again being a private opinion, Nichiren Buddhist seem to be that last to bring about a (relgious) peace . You guys are not even able to bring about some peace amongst yourselves so how dare you being of any use to human kind?  Being an editor on the subject here for quite a while this is private opinion. So go on bash your heads in. --Catflap08 (talk) 19:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bash your heads 

message: Due to issues concerning WP:NOTADVERTISING, WP:NOTSOAPBOX, WP:LINKFARM. WP:UNDUE, WP:NPOV I asked yet again for a page protection.--Catflap08 (talk) 18:21, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page Protection II 

message: In the article is a picture of the Gohonzon. For some Nichiren sects the is not of great significance, but I know for sure that for members of Nichiren Soshu and millions of Soka Gakkai members worldwide making a picture of this object of devotion (and as such publishing one) is profoundly offensive to human nature.
I don't have the time to check Wikipedia's policy's about this now, but I strongly urge to consider removing and destroying this picture. --FaZ72 (talk) 09:57, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been discussed numerous times across numerous articles. Here is one example. Helpsome (talk) 12:37, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gohonzon piture 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: This article has been posted for the Wikipedia On This Day feature for April 28, 2018 as occurring on April 28, 1253. Where in this article does it say the month of "April"? Other than specifying "lunar month" - which could be any month in the year - I have only found reference to the day of a "lunar month" without an indication as to which month that might have been in the old Japanese calendar... Stevenmitchell (talk) 19:46, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia's On This Day, April 28th, 2018 - Where in the article is this date reference?

message: Can you include a recording of the recitation of the mantra?
Thanks.
--Error (talk) 00:48, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Audio requested