Talk:Skver (Hasidic dynasty)

message: The following section is taken out of the article and placed here for further clarification. IZAK 11:44, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "The Skverer sect is uniqe in its strong stress on keeping all of their traditions with no modification. This philosophy was started by the previous Rebbe who is the founder of the current Skverer movement. Although every Hasidic sect has its own unique customs, none come close to Skver both in the quantity of unique customs and in the degree of seriousness about them. As a result, hundreds of old jewish traditions and customs, some even ancient, are found today only in Skver. A few examples are: the chusen muhl (a dance by the bride and groom the night prior to the wedding of any mamber of Rabbi's family) and it is said that it's a very holy time, placing a baby in a drawer (placed on stand to make it look like a crib of course) the first month after birth and the renunciation of the Breslov sect and thier books."
Izak, What don't you understand?Ortho 16:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason for this custom (which is only practiced in Skver) is because until thirty days a baby is not considered to be certain to survive (chezkas kiyum) according to halachah.  this is the reason a pidyon haben is made after thirty daysItzik18 21:53, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I put Steven Hill into the article. I think that a better place for "famous people who've visited Skver" would be in the article on "New Square, New York". Lipa Schmeltzer wears different costumes all the time. -- -- --  02:46, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Update: Steven Hill was removed from the article on 20 August 2015 by , claiming that "he's not Hasidic". -- -- -- 03:59, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: He's an Orthodox Jew and this is in plenty of sources. Look at Steven Hill's own biography - the very same source used to claim he is a "staunch Skver Hasid" in this article says in his own article that he was inspired by the Skver rebbe to be more observant.  Jews who study or admire aspects of Hasidim are not necessarily Hasids nor would they consider themselves such. Per BLP guidelines, specific religious beliefs should not be stated unless it is reported in reliable sources that someone either practices a religion or view himself/herself as being of this religion. —МандичкаYO 😜 05:36, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Odd customs

message: Ortho: When obvious facts are stated, known to many people to be true, and which can be easily verified, then there is no need to get pedantic and cite sources (although it's advisable to have some if called upon). This is what is said on Wikipedia:Citing sources:
#When you add content: "If you add any information to an article, particularly if it's contentious or likely to be challenged, you should supply a source." 
#When there is a factual dispute then: "Disputed edits can be removed immediately, removed and placed on the talk page for discussion, or where the edit is harmless but you dispute it and feel a citation is appropriate, you can place  after the relevant passage." 
#When there is no factual dispute: "Think ahead: Try to imagine whether people might doubt what you wrote or need more information. Supporting what is written in Wikipedia by referring to a clear and reliable source will add stability to your contribution." 
So obviously we must all use our common sense. The truth of the facts in the "history" and "lineage" sections  does not need extra citation. Most of the "philosophy and lifetsyle" is also pretty straightforward. BUT, if for so-called "Customs and traditions" you are going to mention weirdo things like putting babies in drawers and brides and grooms dancing with each other the night before they get married or that Breslov books are "burned on sight", which all sounds very bizzare and outside of the normal of Hasidic life, it's best to come up with some reliable source to note why such facts are notable and deserve to be in this, or any, encyclopedia. IZAK 03:49, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I put Steven Hill into the article. I think that a better place for "famous people who've visited Skver" would be in the article on "New Square, New York". Lipa Schmeltzer wears different costumes all the time. -- -- --  02:46, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Update: Steven Hill was removed from the article on 20 August 2015 by , claiming that "he's not Hasidic". -- -- -- 03:59, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: He's an Orthodox Jew and this is in plenty of sources. Look at Steven Hill's own biography - the very same source used to claim he is a "staunch Skver Hasid" in this article says in his own article that he was inspired by the Skver rebbe to be more observant.  Jews who study or admire aspects of Hasidim are not necessarily Hasids nor would they consider themselves such. Per BLP guidelines, specific religious beliefs should not be stated unless it is reported in reliable sources that someone either practices a religion or view himself/herself as being of this religion. —МандичкаYO 😜 05:36, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Stating the obvious vs. recounting the weird

message: I think that Skwer Boro Park should be an Article for itself and just to have a link from the Skver article.
Skwer (Skver) Boro Park
Chusid
::I'm not sure that it merits its own article - none of the other groups that have different branches have different articles - see Klausenberg, Viznitz, Spinka, Nadvorna, Karlin, etc. etc.  However, I have brought your change into the uniform style, even though I disagree.  I think it should be discussed here and not simply done - does anyone have two cents to put in?Itzik18 21:22, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What if we did that for every Spinka, Nadvorna, and Biala einikel?  it would be out of control Itzik18 21:17, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But all of those you have mentioned share one article on Wikipedia.  I agree that they are separate groups completlely, however all of those groups share one article that mentions both within the one article.  Look at all of the other articles in the "Hasidic dynasty" category.  Why is Skver the only one to have separate articles, while those major chassidusn that you have mentioned share.  The reason that the others share is to be fair to those like Spinka and Nadvorna, because there would be no end.  Thus, here on Wikipedia, all of the information is presented of course, however they can share one article with separate major headings.  A psharah would be to give Skver a category, just like Satmar, Bobov, Belz, and Ger have presently, and put the two articles in the one category.  Better yet, make the category Chernobyl, and put all of the Chernobyl dynasties in the category, with all of the Chernobyl dynasties in the category.  The same can be done with other dynasties when separate articles are written about various branches.  Itzik18 02:54, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:   Related dynasty 

message: This article seems to be susceptible to meandering edits incorporating content not entirely in place. I did the initial elaboration on the bare-bones frame put up along with the other chasidic dynasties, so I tried now to tighten up some of the info and keep the content strictly topical. I think an encyclopedia's primary purpose is to be informative, rather than entertaining, so I've removed some of the info that seems to meander a bit. I don't think this page should serve as a place for all Skvere mayselech.
Reb Hershele was a minor figure in the annals of Skver. He was never considered the father of the sect. If we are to go farther than Reb Itzik'l, we'd move up the chernobyl lineage rather than the line to the Baal shem tov.
I've sought to tighten up the background info on Reb Itzikl's appointment. It's a Hasidic legend that doesn't work as a focal story. 
The whole paragraph on Reb Itzik'l having an open heart for every Jew, and how he traveled widely, and how his fame spread, etc., seems a bit rhetorical, and can probably be said equally of almost every known Rebbe. I've therefore removed it.
I don't know that Skvere Chasidim were masters of Maharal although it is said that Reb Itzik'l was.
I think it's generally agreed that Wikipedia articles should include only verifiable or commonly acknowledged info, stated in an objective manner. The general hyperbole common to a chasidish newspaper, like such-and-such Rebbe's very inspiring visit for shabbos, or how greatly moved the masses were by the speeches of such and such Rebbe, and the like, should probably be kept to a minimum. Comments about a certain Rebbe's love for Jews, or his great tzidkus, etc. is generally not of an objective, verifiable nature--although actions and verifiable events certainly are. See Wikipedia:verifiability,Wikipedia:NPOV.
There's also an important determination that needs to be discussed (which applies equally to all the other articles about hasidic dynasties). Is this an article about Skver as a community, their lifestyle and philosophy, and the major events that shaped them, or is this an article about the dynasty, i.e. the Rebbes and their lineage, with their personal bios and life stories? I believe it's the former, with only minor focus on the latter. And I therefore propose that the Title be changed to Skverer Hasidim (or Chasidim).
--Kotzker 00:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about an article with a name like Skver (Hasidic sect)? -- -- --  04:12, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

text: P.S. Other options would include: Skver (Hasidic group), Skver (Hasidic movement), or Skver Hasidism. -- -- --  21:29, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Discussion 

message: As a continuation of the above discussion about customs, I propose we add a new section called Unique Customs that would outline respectfully and informatively the various customs with which Skver is known. It would be nice if reasons could be given for these customs as well.
Some that come to mind are:
* Reciting the full Hallel with its benediction during baking matzos on Erev Pesach. (With legend of Eliyahu Hanavi.)
* Reciting the entire Psalms Shabbos morning before Shachris (also part of Eliyahu Hanavi legend).
* Placing a newborn in a makshift crib such as a large drawer. (Part of a general practice refraining from using permanenet objects for the first 30 days, such as a crib, stroller, or even store-purchased clothes--the baby is often wrapped in a Komono.)
* Giving a male child his first haircut at the age of two (as opposed to the more widespread custom at age three; the cited source is Rashi on Vayigomel Hayeled, who says that yitzchok turned two then and Avraham invited dignitaries to celebrate; still needs a more contemporary source, or at least within the rabbinic tradition).
Attire:
* Boots for married men on Shabbos and holidays. (Part of the general Hasidic custom to avoid full-length pants as too Westernized. There's a story here involving the previous Rebbe's older brother, Reb Itzik'l Keshenever, whose mother-in-law wouldn't allow him to wear the traditional knee length socks, since her husband, from the Chernobyl-Loev lineage, didn't wear them. The Rebbe, R' Yakov Yosef, in deference to his older brother and mentor, compromised by wearing boots.)
* Real burial shrouds instead of a kittel for Yom Kippur and Pesach seder. 
Liturgy and Prayer:
* Including the word keitz in the kaddish. A practice with sources in medieval times. (Mentioned in Avudraham.)
Then there are customs unique to the Rebbe's family:
* Choson muhel. The bride and groom dance together on the night before the wedding. (A rite once fiarly widespread in Jewish communities in Eastern Europe until banned in Hungary by the Yismach Moshe for fears of leading to debauchery. Speculation: might have been due to concerns that the kallah would be ritually impure, and once married, her husband can no longer have physical contact until the Mikve.)
If anyone has anything to add it would be very much appreciated. Once this is fleshed out a bit I'll add it to the main article.
--Kotzker 22:22, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unique Customs 

message: Can someone please fix the family tree? Rabbi Yechiel Michl Twersky of Skwer-Boro Park is the son of Rabbi Dovid Twersky of Skwer-Boro Park, son of Rabbi Yitzchak Twersky of Skwer-Boro Park. -- -- --  03:27, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: by User:Redaktor. Thanks. -- -- -- 20:39, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family tree 

message: These comments here about a certain sentence, are in reference to the latest version of this article "as of" when these comments were written. In case things have changed by the time you read this, that was the [first] (and, at the time, the only) "19 March 2018" version of the article. 
There is (in that version of the article) a sentence, (in the paragraph just above the section called "Family tree") that says:Later, when his uncle the Grand Rabbi Yakov Yosef Twersky of Skver came to America, he arranged all the paperwork and visas for the entire family for them to enter the US while he got him a house and a shul in Borough Park before moving to wb where later he moved to New Square. 
I have some questions (maybe "related"). 
# Should perhaps the last 6 (or 7?) words of that, be a separate sentence? (or if not, then perhaps the word "where" could be changed to "whereas" or "although", to serve as a conjunction?) The word "where" sounds like it is referring to the time (the day, or the year) when something happened. To me, at least, it does not seem clear. 
# Should perhaps the phrase "moving to wb" be changed? Maybe it's just me, but I "for one" do not know what the word "wb" means, there. If it stands for something, then maybe it should be spelled out. Another idea: If there are some changes ... e.g., to change the last 6 (or 7) words of the sentence, to be a separate sentence, OR to be joined by a different conjunction somehow, then ... maybe the word "wb" could ALSO be removed (or clarified) at the same time. Please forgive my ignorance if "wb" is something that [almost] everyone except for me, already understands. 
Any suggestions? or other advice? --Mike Schwartz (talk) 20:48, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: . Thanks for voicing your concerns. I hope it's clear now. -- -- -- 22:34, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor clarification: What does "wb" mean? ("before moving to wb")  

message: I am surprised that some dates are given only anno mundi. It makes the article less useful than it could be.--2607:FEA8:D5DF:F3D9:C87:9B39:6009:E606 (talk) 02:23, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to add secular/Christian years. -- -- -- 07:52, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  dates 

message: There are no Shtetls in the US.  Shtetls are small towns created by pressive dictatorships where there was Jewsih government that represented the government and that was coercive.    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.84.1.3 (talk) 09:57, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: reads like a PR pamphlet - bulding a shtetl?? 

message: The redirect Skver (Hasidic dynasty has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Utopes (talk / cont) 01:24, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Skver (Hasidic dynasty]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]