Talk:List of culinary herbs and spices

message: Please be aware, that this is not merely a list of herbs and spices, but of CULINARY herbs and spices. [ i.e. "safe to eat" ] I noticed, that  Mandrake was listed. Perhaps, somewhere, it is indeed used in food, but by and large, this is considered a highly toxic plant and not for normal consumption.
I have removed the Mandrake listing and tagged the article, requesting the assistance of an expert; Hopefully to give a good once-over on the listings.
Administrators may wish to be on guard for people potentially trying to add poisonous plants to these and other similar listings. A disclaimer in the introduction and/or at potentially lethal plants may be needed as well. 71.126.10.33 (talk) 19:14, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Caution

message: I think it would be helpful to define what the differences are, if any, between "herbs" and "spices", and indicate in the list which is which. - 152.76.0.130 02:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like that would turn this page into two very long lists. If separate lists are needed (why?), each should probably have its own page. Alternately, turn this list into a giant wikitable that could be sorted by name or type (herb/spice)? CaliJim (talk) 22:45, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Delineate herbs and spices

message: Attention spice/herb lovers, I have created a template for all herb/spice pages here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Herbs and Spices.  Please contribute if you are interested.  The first stage is to brainstorm the content and headings of each article etc...  Then the next step will be create a template using a known spice, like cloves, or cumin on a subpage.  Then eventually convert all the pages to the new template format.  Could take a few years.  But eventually wikipedia.org might be the ultimate source for reliable information about spices and herbs.  dave 21:51, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Template

message: It seems to me that this is really two articles and should be split into a "List of culinary herbs" and a "List of medicinal plants".  There would be some overlap, but the current limits of the list are too nebulous in my opinion.  Comments?  WormRunner 06:50, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely. I'm creating List of Herbs And Their Purported Uses. Family Guy Guy 17:45, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Split

message: I don't think herbs and spices go well together theres so many spices that isn't herbs. and so many herbs that are used medicinally. Better to have three lists with links between "List of herbs", "List of spices" and "List of medicinal herbs". And maybe also a "List of culinary herbs" Spices is such a broad field with both non herb spices and a lot of different mixtures that the list will become unorganized with the herb list there also. Also most of the food herbs can be used medicinally even if they arn't always so "strong".
As I and my wife grow and sell herb plants I will probably contribute a lot to the herb list over time. I just found out about the wikipedia so I haven't had time to do mush yet. I did add some info to the lemon grass and mint.
Sbyholm 13:30, Jan 22, 2004 (UTC)
I agree wholeheartedly.  The word 'herb' in it's broad sense is too inclusive to be addressed in this list, and should be addressed in the 'Herb' entry.  When building this list, we must concern ourselves with narrow enough definitions to make the list functionable and useful.  This is really a list of three types of items.  1) Medicinal herbs, as a topic entirely other than 2) Culinary Herbs and 3) Culinary Spices.  The difference between spices and herbs is not an arbitrary one.  Herbs, culinarily speaking, are the leaves of plants, and can be used fresh (though they are often dried).  Spices are the twigs, stems, fruit of plants, and are ALWAYS used dried.  This is an important distinction both culinarily and botanically.
It is clear that this list should be divided into appropriate thirds, though they should link to each other as reference points.  This list needs to be consistent with the entries made for both herbs and spices.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.48.60.156 (talk) 18:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Medicinal use

message: I was browsing the new List of herbs and spices and though: why can't the list of spices be on the [spice] page and the list of herbs on the [herb] page, it would make the structure more logical i think. Comments?? Sbyholm 13:46, Jan 22, 2004 (UTC)
:I agree with your idea.  But my idea was to have herbs and spices on the same page.  For example, cinnamon, basil, pepper, oregano are all very similar, they are all used to flavour food dishes...it seems like they should be listed together somewhere?  How about no separate herb and spice page, but one page about spices AND herbs, and we can put the list there?  Herb and spice could redirect there.  I think this makes sense for now, since both articles are small.  If they get big, they could be split off later.  Any other ideas?  dave 17:37, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that "herbs and spices" naturally belong together.  The division is unnatural and largely a result of historical trading patterns.  However, also I think that while there is a great deal of overlap, a medicinal plant list is better kept separate from the culinary plant list.  WormRunner 17:55, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Split 2

message: Some comments:
* Salt is not a spice, no more so than sugar.  Salt is salt and really cannot be further categorized in a culinary sense.
* Bay leaves are an herb, not a spice.
* I would consider Rocket a salad green, not an herb.
* Vanilla is a flavoring, not a spice, IMO; it is usually used as an extract, and with the intent of imparting a dominant flavor rather than a supportive one, making it similar to lemon rind, orange extract, almonds, coconut.
Thought I'd point these out here.  I'll change the article in a few days if no one objects. UninvitedCompany 16:39, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree about vanilla. If vanilla should go, so should cinnamon. Also, it is not generally used as an extract. You scrape the marrow out of the pod. - Burschik
Hmm, I hadn't noticed the comment by Uninvited Company until now.  I disagree about all of these except Rocket, which could be excluded, though it wouldn't have to be.  Just because bay leaf is a leaf, does not make it an herb.  It's part of a tree and is generally considered a spice.  Vanilla is just as much a spice as cinnamon, and for that matter lemon rind qualifies in my opinion.  WormRunner | Talk 16:27, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: Well, the definition of herb offered by Wikipedia seems to be "the green, leafy part of the plant", which would make bay leaves a herb and not a spice. Maybe we need a good definition of terms first. - Burschik
I agree.  Salt and sugar do not belong at all.  Bay leaves are indeed an herb (leaf) as opposed to a spice (stems, twigs, fruit).  Rocket is a green, as per the wiki-definition of herb being a plant used for flavoring rather than substance.  However, vanilla is indeed a spice, being the dried fruit of a plant.  Just because it is sometimes used as a 'flavoring' does not change what it indeed is in itself.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.48.60.156 (talk) 18:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Some comments

message: I have changed this page to List of culinary herbs and spices. As it stood it didn't make sense. Herbs are a type of plant, so the list could have included medicinal herbs, or herbs that aren't used for anything. If there is a list that includes all herbs, it should not contain spices, as spices are purely culinary.JohnnyMrNinja 17:13, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of culinary herbs and spices 

message: In the header it says that curry powder does not count as a culinary herb or spice, since it is a mixture.  Down in the list "Herbs de Provence", which is a mixture, is listed.  Not wikipedia clued enough to know what to do about that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.138.32.130 (talk) 22:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, 'Herbes de Provence' should have its own wiki-entry, but it does not belong on this list, as per the defining rules of the list, ie curry powder.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.48.60.156 (talk) 18:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Herbs de Provence? 

message: Is there an agreed-upon spelling for this region of China that can be applied to the name of the spice?  --CorbettGM (talk) 17:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the two redundant listings and kept the one in proper alphabetic position.  I kept the spelling 'Sichuan' because that appears to be the Wikipedia preferred spelling for the name of the province in question.  Not gonna touch the whole Sichuan-Szechwan-Szechuan debate over there.  --CorbettGM (talk) 15:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sichuan (Szechuan?) pepper listed three times 

message: Why is banana included here? If we're including any plant that is used to add colour or flavouring, surely tomato, lemon, and many other plants not normally regarded as herbs could also be used here? I would propose to delete banana. --rossb (talk) 08:52, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. It's gone. « D. Trebbien (talk) 02:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banana? 

message: I've noticed certain seasonings have been listed under non-English names when there is an English name for the seasoning - ex. Javitri (mace). This seems to me to be inappropriate on this page and should be removed, in my opinion.
On the other hand, there are herbs and spices that have no name in English, but are used in English-speaking countries when we cook various cuisines. In these cases, is there an established standard? Do we use the most common foreign name or do we list by botanical name? For example, there is both Culantro (Eryngium foetidum) under "C" and (Eryngium foetidum) Culantro under "E". -- Ellenois (talk) 05:00, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Listings Under Foreign/Botanical Names 

message: Someone recently added Onion Powder and Twin leaf Onion to the list. I have deleted them. Onions, garlic, and other members of the Allium family do add flavor, but i think they do not belong in a list of herbs and spices, since they are primarily vegetables and often used as such in cooking. Any other opinion?
Ellenois (talk) 00:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't be in favor of excluding all members of the allium family from the list.  The culinary uses of chives (Allium schoenoprasum) and jimbu (Allium hypsistum) certainly seem to qualify those species as herbs.  Chukhung (talk) 01:11, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Onions, Garlic, and other Allia 

message: OK, i've got another question: should items such as: Indian Bay-leaf, Malabathrum, Tejpat (Cinnamomum tamala, C. tejpata); Indonesian Bay-Leaf, Daun salam (Eugenia polyantha, Syzygium polyanthum); and Indonesian Cinnamon (Cinnamomum burmannii, Cassia vera) continue to be listed under the rubric "I"? Or should they be listed as
Bay-leaf, Indian
Bay-leaf, Indonesian
and
Cinnamon, Indonesian
??
Ellenois (talk) 00:16, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Alphabetic order

message: There are 25 species of mint, many used in food, some only in herb teas, some grown only as ornamental plants. Peppermint and spearmint, the two most common, are already listed. Someone has added apple mint. This opens the door to add all 25, which seems unnecessary to me. Anyone else think differently? Ellenois (talk) 18:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mint Species 

message: There appears to be an entry under C for 'Colored People' which links to the article referencing people of African-American or similarly grouped heritages.  This seems completely wrong and I assume someone's added it for 'fun'.  I don't edit Wikipedia, so while I recommend it get removed/corrected, I don't feel I have the right to do it myself.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.177.234 (talk) 16:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, yes that is vandalism: I have reverted it and warned the user.  Please see further message on your talk page.  Richard New Forest (talk) 16:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very incorrect entry - 'Colored People'? 

message: I just wanted to let you all know that paprika is not an herb. It is a powder made by grinding peppers, and a pepper is clearly a vegetable, not an herb. Using the umbrella term "herbs and spices" is kind of stupid as some spices don't come from an herb (like paprika) and many herbs are not spices. It's as though one considered that herbs and spices are pretty much the same thing, but that would be insulting to many cooks from many countries.
I have to agree with comments above that spices and herbs should definitely not be combined in the same list. It is just plain confusing. To be clear, spices are substances of plant origin that are added to food to flavor it, while herbs are actual plants used as is, not dried and not as an extract. For example, dried flaked parsley leaves are a spice while fresh parsley is an herb. Cilantro is an herb and definitely not a spice, while its seed, coriander, is definitely a spice.
But paprika definitely isn't an herb.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.59.42.162 (talk) 19:03, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paprika is not an herb 

message: I've been reading over several years worth of discussion regarding which plants in this list do and don't constitute herbs or spices and whether or not the list should be split in two for the purposes for clarification.
My overriding conclusion from all that I've read is that there is a great deal of confusion as to the definitions of the terms 'herb' and 'spice' adopted for the purposes of this article. I suggest that these definitions be clarified in discussion here before being stated far more clearly at the top of the list page to minimise confusion for both readers and editors.
To that end, here are the definitions currently in use on the respective 'herb' and 'spice' Wikipedia pages:
Herb:
:"...any plants "with leaves, seeds, or flowers used for flavoring, food, medicine, or perfume" or parts of "such a plant as used in cooking"."
Spice:
:"...a dried seed, fruit, root, bark, or vegetative substance used in nutritionally insignificant quantities as a food additive for flavor, color, or as a preservative that kills harmful bacteria or prevents their growth.[citation needed] It may be used to flavour a dish or to hide other flavours.[1] In the kitchen, spices are distinguished from herbs, which are leafy, green plant parts used for flavoring or as garnish."
It is clear to me that these definitions already overlap significantly so that splitting the pages would be impossible unless further clarification were provided. My personal opinion is that the two terms are inherently inseparable in this context and that they should not be split. 
Furthermore, if these definitions are to be accepted in their broadest sense, I believe that many of the substances which have already been flagged up and/or removed by editors should actually be returned to the list. I speak as someone with a background in horticulture & ethnobotany with a focus on traditional herbal medicine systems, but much less so in cuisine. I'm very curious to hear the opinions of others.   - Bittercress (talk) 18:30, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definitions of 'Herb' & 'Spice' 

message: I noticed an oddity under this letter: "Cilantro#Leaves..."
I am not sure what purpose is intended by the '#', but it seems to have had the effect of deleting the word 'leaves' in the finished article. Is it an error perhaps? Dawright12 (talk) 08:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Using "Cilantro#Leaves|Cilantro" links directly to the section "leaves" in the cilantro article, while showing only the word "cilantro" in the article. It was presumably done to differentiate between the leaves and the seeds (see "coriander seed" a bit further down). - Takeaway (talk) 12:14, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: C

message: For the Vietnamese herb referred to as cudweed, should the species be corrected to Pseudognaphalium affine? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 10:49, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Cudweed]]