Talk:Somerset/Archive 1

message: Isn't Somerset named after the town of Somerton just like Dorset is named after Dorchester? This article says it's named after the 'summer people'.
:Presumably the town and the county are both named after the summer people.  The "set" in Dorset (and probably Somerset) is "saete", meaning the dwellers of.  Joe D (t) 13:50, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of the name of Somerset 

message: I am from Somerset and have never heard anyone pronounce it Zummerzet. I would be happy to remove this and replace it with a better phonetic attempt to describe how the local dialect handles the pronounciation.
Is this okay? Lee, Somerset, UK.
I am also from Somerset and back-up this comment, Zummerzet is a stereotypical pronunciation, and is not that accurate. 
Lemmy Kilmister 11:34, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Zummerzet?

message: Whoever nominated this seems to have forgotten to put the GA nom template here ... I just rectified that.
Anyway, I have also put the nomination on hold for the usual week pending a couple of issues that could be taken care of in, perhaps, an afternoon.
*Consistent use of the same system of measure. This is one of my biggest bugbears. I cannot stress enough how ridiculous it looks to be jumping back and forth between metric and English units like an episode of the original Star Trek.The geology section is a horrible offender in this regard. First, "198 km² of the central and western Mendip Hills was designated an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty in 1972." Okay, it may be a British article but we've decided to use metric. Fine. But then, a sentence later, the Somerset Levels "stretch ... up to 20 miles inland ... only a few feet above sea level." So we're not using metric, then. Finally, the highest point in Somerset is "Dunkery Beacon on Exmoor, with an altitude of 519 metres (1704 feet)". Looks like we're using both ... as we should have all along.
*That section also ends with "Over 100 sites within Somerset have been designated as Sites of Special Scientific Interest which can be browsed on this list." The last clause needs to go as it's self-referential (cf. that page "To ease reusability, never allow the text of an article to assume that the reader is viewing it at Wikipedia, and try to avoid even assuming that the reader is viewing the article at a website.")
*"The first known use of the name Somersæte was in 845 after the region fell to the Saxons". In a section rife with footnoted sources, this is curiously uncited. I would think something this important should be.
*I would suggest a gallery section for the images along the side of Settlements.
That's all. See what you can do. Daniel Case 03:34, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been a week since I put this article on hold and none of the above changes have been made. Thus it fails. When they are made, feel free to renominate. Daniel Case 20:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA nom

message: This is probably a more general issue than just Somerset, but can't there at least be a rough sketching-in of Wales and Scotland (at partial opacity)?  It looks really weird as it is. Adam Cuerden talk 14:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: I have just made a proposal for a WikiProject at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals.  Derek Andrews 11:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This has now been created at Wikipedia:WikiProject Somerset please join and help to improve the quality of wikipedia articles relating to Somerset.— Rod talk 08:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Somerset

message: The map of this has a few problems IMO:
*The background isn't transparent
*It looks like it has been resized smaller from a larger image, and as a result, the outline looks a bit messy
I have two proposals, a modified version of the existing one, and a new one.
Any other suggestions/comments would be appreciated, I don't want to change it without checking for opinions. Lethe 21:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I prefer the modified version of the existing one - simply because it indicates (through the different colour) that these districts being unitary authorities are different from the others. If the fill colour could be used on the new one tan I would probably opt for that.— Rod talk 20:57, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Districts 

message: I am not happy with the latest addition to the Etymology section, re: prehistory, last paragraph. Although it is referenced, this appears to be pure speculation and the reference is written by an astronomer, not an etymologist.  My vote is for deletion. --Derek Andrews 15:21, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: I've opted to do the GA review of this article, because I think it's an important UK article, as I'm certain you do as well.
I've only had a quick look at it so far, and I'll post my detailed comments later.
One thing I want to say straight away though is that the lists in the Settlements and communications and the Places of interest sections would be enough on their own to persuade me to fail this nomination. I would strongly encourage the editors to convert those sections to prose, by picking out a few notable examples and linking to the full list. --Malleus Fatuarum 04:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Response Thank you for the helpful comments - we have addressed many of them as shown above. The bit about the origin of the name is complex - a couple of the local history books I've checked say "unclear", "difficult to be certain" etc & blame the lack of detail on the "dark ages". In relation to the other unaddressed comment about "attractions", I think this is illustrating the importance of tourism & therefore does fit in Economy and Industry.  I would welcome any further improvements or comments.— Rod talk 17:10, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Is it possible also that the "motto" at the top right hand corner (infobox) could be moved to alongside the council coat of arms? The rationale being that the motto pertains, in the most strictest sense, to the county council, rather than the division of land. -- Jza84 · (talk) 10:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've left a message asking about the placement of the motto & metric v imperial units on Template talk:Infobox England county as I can't work out how to change these.— Rod talk 10:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks Malleus Fatuarum for your advice, support and contributions to date. In resolving the problems that you have highlighted above, we are tending to look at it critically in the manner that we presume you are using. Doing that, tends to highlight missing information, poor grammar and unasked questions; which we are addressing. I agreed that this could make your review harder; however I would like to think that (almost) everything added is correctly referenced. I have a 15,000 word dissertation to produce, proof read and have bound before Christmas, so I will not adding to the article. Pyrotec 19:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We all have our crosses to bear. I've got a course to write and deliver before Xmas, plus one paper. So let's not make life more difficult for each other, eh? Freeze the article so that it can be properly reviewed. --Malleus Fatuarum 19:40, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

text: A god explanation & perhaps could be reworded to say that - I just removed the "quote" marks.— Rod talk 22:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: M5 & A303 was added to Human occupation section as a logical progression, i.e. canal, railways, motorways. Now reworked.Pyrotec 21:04, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I've reworked Avimo, but we probably need a reference or two to satisfy GA. Could someone find a Western Daily Press or other media sources?Pyrotec 21:49, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've searched for any news reports re Avimo & can't find any - if we can't verify/source this can we just remove that sentance?— Rod talk 22:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, thats because it is under Thales Optics, in 2006, -  & . I've just got use to using the old name.Pyrotec 22:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Re worked Norton Radstock by reversing the order. I believe the Stoke on Trent is a City of six towns, we have a conurbation of two - let's tell people.Pyrotec 22:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Here's a BBC reference for the Far East . Thanks for all your editing. Must go back to my cross now only another 13,000 words to go.Pyrotec 22:47, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: The tables of economic data were added to lots of articles by an economist (I presume) & I've not tried to work out what it mean before. The office of national statistics says "Data for the years 2005 and 2006 are being published as experimental statistics. Earlier estimates of current price GVA data are estimated by balancing Input Output supply use tables, drawing on survey data from ONS's Annual business Inquiry (ABI). The current price estimates for 2005 and 2006, which are based on short-term indicators, are less firm. Revisions to the early estimates of GVA over recent years indicate that the approach is not ideal. ONS is currently reviewing and improving the methods used to produce these estimates, and while this programme is continuing Blue Book table 2.3 has been withdrawn and current price estimates are published on the experimental area of the National Statistics website instead." on  but I'm really none the wiser. I was hoping to get this to GA today as it's my 3rd wikibirthday (yep I made my first edit on 29th Oct 2004) but I don't think I can get my head any further around stats & economics tonight so I will look at it again another day. Thanks for all your help so far.— Rod talk 23:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not a sticking point for me. Overall the article looks great now I think, and it's a credit to all of the editors who have put so much effort into it. I'm more than happy to list it as a GA now. Happy wikipedia birthday. :) --Malleus Fatuarum 23:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - if it had been a problem I was going to suggest the OECD definitions document word doc as light reading. But I'd like to thank you (again) for all your help and support in getting this to GA & making it a much better article.— Rod talk 23:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA on hold 

message: There's an awful lot of good work been done on this article in the last couple of days, well done to all the editors. In view of that I thought it would be helpful for me to go through the article again and to summarise what work I think remains to be done:
*From the Human occupation section: "The caves of the Mendip Hills ...contain ... sites such as the caves of Cheddar Gorge".
*"The first known use of the name Somersæte was in 845 after the region fell to the Saxons." This seems like it ought to be in the Toponymy section, not the Human occupation section.
*"Wellington gave its name to the first Duke of Wellington ...". Wouldn't it be more correct to say that the Duke took his name from Wellington?
*"The Somerset coalfield was an important industry in north Somerset ..". The coalfield isn't an industry, it's mining that's the industry.
*"... the Somerset Coal Canal was built from 1800 onwards". That's a bit vague. Is it still being built today?
*""... part of which was later converted into a railway". Railway track I suppose that means?
*"However, farming continued to flourish, with the Bath and West of England Society for the Encouragement of Agriculture, Arts, Manufactures and Commerce being founded in 1777 to improve methods. John Billingsley conducted a survey of the county's agriculture in 1795 but found that methods could still be improved." Are those two ideas meant to be linked in any way? Does the fact that Billingsley found that there was room for improvement have anything to to with the establishment of the Bath and West of England Society for instance?
*"76 square miles (197 km²) of the central and western Mendip Hills was designated an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty". Sentences ought not to start with numbers. Should either be rewritten to avoid it, or start off "Seventy-six ...".
*"The main coastal towns of today are ..." Seems a bit awkward. What were they yesterday? What will they be tomorrow?
*"Street developed a centre for the production of woollen slippers ...". Should that say "Street developed as a centre ..."?
*"Development amongst the milk based industries ..". Using the word "amogst" implies that there was some kind of collaboration between these milk-based industries. is that what's meant?
*"The town of Glastonbury is famous for its mythical associations, and open-air rock festival (actually in Pilton), while the Cheddar Gorge is famous for caves open to visitors". I'm never happy about claims to be "famous", seems to be verging on POV.
*"It has now been confirmed that the government has rejected the proposals for unitary authorities in Somerset, and that the present two-tier arrangements of Somerset County Council and the district councils will remain." When was that confirmed? Would be nice to have a reference for that as well.
*I notice that there's a discrepancy between the infobox's presentation of metric/imperial and the article's presentation of  imperial/metric. If that's down to a "feature" of the infobox being used, then I'll just to live with that.
*There's still the issue that was brought up at the last GA review to be addressed. I quote from what said before: "To ease reusability, never allow the text of an article to assume that the reader is viewing it at Wikipedia, and try to avoid even assuming that the reader is viewing the article at a website". So a statement like this needs to be corrected: "Below are the average maximum and minimum temperatures ..." How do you know where the table is? I'd suggest folding that sentence up into the table header, so as not to make any assumption about how the reader is viewing the article.
And that's probably about it. The article has improved in leaps and bounds over the last few days, and just needs that final polish before it's listed as a GA I think.
--Malleus Fatuarum 19:17, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it possible also that the "motto" at the top right hand corner (infobox) could be moved to alongside the council coat of arms? The rationale being that the motto pertains, in the most strictest sense, to the county council, rather than the division of land. -- Jza84 · (talk) 10:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've left a message asking about the placement of the motto & metric v imperial units on Template talk:Infobox England county as I can't work out how to change these.— Rod talk 10:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Summary

message: This is fast becoming a really good article, but the addition of so much new material is making this review more demanding than normal. One of the criteria for a GA pass is that the article is stable. So may I suggest that until the review is complete no further new material is added, unless it specifically addresses an issue raised in the review? My fear is that otherwise we'll keep going around in circles; I've already got another list of things that I think need to be addressed before I can list this article as a GA.
I suggest that you let me know when you think that you've got a stable version of this article, and we'll go from there. --Malleus Fatuarum 13:57, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Malleus Fatuarum for your advice, support and contributions to date. In resolving the problems that you have highlighted above, we are tending to look at it critically in the manner that we presume you are using. Doing that, tends to highlight missing information, poor grammar and unasked questions; which we are addressing. I agreed that this could make your review harder; however I would like to think that (almost) everything added is correctly referenced. I have a 15,000 word dissertation to produce, proof read and have bound before Christmas, so I will not adding to the article. Pyrotec 19:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We all have our crosses to bear. I've got a course to write and deliver before Xmas, plus one paper. So let's not make life more difficult for each other, eh? Freeze the article so that it can be properly reviewed. --Malleus Fatuarum 19:40, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Update 2

message: Hopefully these are the last issues that need to be addressed before this article can be listed as a GA:
*The last sentence in the Settlements and communications section just seems to have been plopped on the end a propos of nothing that went before. "Norton Radstock is a conurbation made up from Midsomer Norton and Radstock." Yes, but so what?
*"The Somerset LEA also provides a number of special schools such as Farleigh College, to cater for children aged between two and nineteen ..." Is nineteen correct?
*I've tried to copyedit the last paragraph of the Human occupation section, but I had to admit defeat, as I don't entirely understand what it's trying to say, particularly about the A303. "Somerset is crossed north-south by the M5 Motorway, used by holiday traffic travelling through the county to and from Devon and Cornwall. The M4 Motorway runs east-west, beyond the northern limits of the county, and to the west by the A303 road."
*"They consist of marine clay "levels" along the coast, and the inland (often peat based) "moors". Why are both "levels" and "moors" in quotes? Seems to imply that they're not real levels and moors.  It signifies that the inland areas, moors are (still) generally below sea level. The levels were also below sea level, but they are now above, or just above sea level. They have been raised by the deposition of clays over the centuries by a combination of natural processes and the action of man reclaiming them. See, for example, Rippon (1997). Pyrotec 22:07, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A god explanation & perhaps could be reworded to say that - I just removed the "quote" marks.— Rod talk 22:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: M5 & A303 was added to Human occupation section as a logical progression, i.e. canal, railways, motorways. Now reworked.Pyrotec 21:04, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I've reworked Avimo, but we probably need a reference or two to satisfy GA. Could someone find a Western Daily Press or other media sources?Pyrotec 21:49, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've searched for any news reports re Avimo & can't find any - if we can't verify/source this can we just remove that sentance?— Rod talk 22:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, thats because it is under Thales Optics, in 2006, -  & . I've just got use to using the old name.Pyrotec 22:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Re worked Norton Radstock by reversing the order. I believe the Stoke on Trent is a City of six towns, we have a conurbation of two - let's tell people.Pyrotec 22:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Here's a BBC reference for the Far East . Thanks for all your editing. Must go back to my cross now only another 13,000 words to go.Pyrotec 22:47, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: The tables of economic data were added to lots of articles by an economist (I presume) & I've not tried to work out what it mean before. The office of national statistics says "Data for the years 2005 and 2006 are being published as experimental statistics. Earlier estimates of current price GVA data are estimated by balancing Input Output supply use tables, drawing on survey data from ONS's Annual business Inquiry (ABI). The current price estimates for 2005 and 2006, which are based on short-term indicators, are less firm. Revisions to the early estimates of GVA over recent years indicate that the approach is not ideal. ONS is currently reviewing and improving the methods used to produce these estimates, and while this programme is continuing Blue Book table 2.3 has been withdrawn and current price estimates are published on the experimental area of the National Statistics website instead." on  but I'm really none the wiser. I was hoping to get this to GA today as it's my 3rd wikibirthday (yep I made my first edit on 29th Oct 2004) but I don't think I can get my head any further around stats & economics tonight so I will look at it again another day. Thanks for all your help so far.— Rod talk 23:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not a sticking point for me. Overall the article looks great now I think, and it's a credit to all of the editors who have put so much effort into it. I'm more than happy to list it as a GA now. Happy wikipedia birthday. :) --Malleus Fatuarum 23:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - if it had been a problem I was going to suggest the OECD definitions document word doc as light reading. But I'd like to thank you (again) for all your help and support in getting this to GA & making it a much better article.— Rod talk 23:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final update before GA

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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