Talk:Tim Flannery

message: The word "provocative" has been applied in the opening paragraph describing the subject and reverted. I do not think that the word as it is ordinarily used applies to the subject. Anyone else have a view? Albatross2147 08:25, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I for one don't like it.  That reference does not read with an encyclopaedic tone.  Another word in there that could equally and possibly better describe him as is "renowned".  "Provocative" for me (especially in an opening sentence) is too much of a peacock term.  Its interesting that you edited out the previous descriptor "well-known" with an edit summary of "NPOV"  before replacing it with Provocative. —Moondyne 04:18, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

text: It's not only inappropriate for a lead sentence, but whether it is referenced or not makes no difference – it is a subjective term, and cannot be stated as fact. We can, however, say "X describes Flannery as provocative" if such a statement is suitably sourced and relevant.--cj | talk 20:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Provocative

message: I've rewritten the article pretty much from scratch. One point I've made that lacks a source is that "His advocacy on two issues in particular, population levels and carbon emissions, culminated in being named Australian of the Year at a time when the environment had reached the forefront of public debate in Australia." I think it's relevant that given the high profile of climate change etc right now it is a special honour for one environmentalist to be chosen - is this valid contextual information or original research? Joestella 17:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the rewrite. However I do think the excerpt from The Australian editorial is unecessary. If you can find some well sourced criticism from other scientists, politicians, etc., then that's fine. But editorials are a form of opinionated comment (who wrote it, do they have any particular expertise, does it actually matter?), and its importance or relevance is debatable. Recurring dreams 21:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I missed this comment of yours - and I disagree. The major newspapers offer a non-partisan overview of issues that crosses the sort of boundaries that would stop a scientist from rendering comment. Flannery's status as a scientist is covered in the article, but readers need to get a sense of his activist work as well. Joestella 15:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I disagree that major newspapers offer a non-partisan point of view on issues. As you have noted many times on pages on newspapers, they campaign strongly on particular issues. Indeed most newspaper editorials offer strong ideological comments, even going as far as approving particular political parties. And I don't see what the editorial comment offers that isn't already covered? There is plenty in the article about his activism, to which the editorial doesn't add anything. If you want to add more, find particular instances, eg conferences, interviews, events, etc. involving his activism. Recurring dreams 15:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't believe newspaper editorials offer a "social overview." Their opinion is simply their own, not society's. "The characterisation of Flannery as extreme is I think fair." Well you see it is a characterisation, and the relevance or expertise of a newspaper's opinion on this issue is debatable. As you say the ultimate conclusion is not the issue: one could simply find several other editorials extolling the subjects' virtues, and it would be justifiable to put them alongside this extract. The point is, the practice of quoting from anonymous editorials on a number of issues detracts from the encyclopediac nature of these articles. Recurring dreams 02:13, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite 

message: "His controversial views on population control and shutting down the coal industry are frequently cited in the media."
If anyone can find me a few recent media pieces about population control and comments from Flannery, then this statement is justified. I don't seem to be able to find many? Recurring dreams 21:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Poor wording on my part perhaps. What I'm trying to get across is that when people think Tim Flannery, they think about those views more than say, his work on Melanesian tree kangaroos. That said, the coal stuff was all over the media in January-February of this year. Joestella 05:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm happy to keep the coal industry part (he is indeed often cited), but maybe get rid of the population control. I really don't see that it was much of an issue in the media besides maybe ~10 yrs ago. Recurring dreams 06:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frequently cited? 

message: Can anyone provide additional context for this concept? It is not clear in the article why Flannery is proposing this. Euryalus 22:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's about sea-level rises. Does it matter? Joestella 05:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Having read the section from The Weathermakers, I have added a sentence clarifying the Geothermia concept. It is related to energy sources at the proposed location, which Flannery suggests would allow such a settlement to be energy self-sufficient and also support a rail and electricity grid to enable connections to major ports and coastal cities. Euryalus 04:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geothermia 

message: Tim Flannery wrote about the tipping point (2015), turning point, deadline. Why don't we an article about it? This is another article: Tipping point. --Tamás Kádár 01:13, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Tipping point]] 

message: Is the Bibliography section in this article a list of books that Flannery is involved with, or a list of sources used for this article.
If the former it should be considered for removal, as wikipedia is not indiscriminate nor promotional information.
If the latter it should definitely be cleaned up and possibly integrated with footnotes into a more easily tracked references/footnotes section.--ZayZayEM (talk) 03:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: These two are missing: "In the 1990s, Flannery published The Mammals Of New Guinea (Cornell Press)<insert space>and Prehistoric Mammals Of Australia and New<insert space>(Johns Hopkins Press), the most comprehensive reference works on the subjects."
I don't have an account so I can't edit.
:Thanks for pointing this out. I've fixed the spacing as suggested. I'd also poit out that anyone can edit - you don'tneed an account, just go to the page you want to make a change to , click on "Edit this page" at the top, and jump right in. There's more detail if you want it at Wikipedia:How to edit a page.
:Feel free to fix spelling or punctuation wherever you find it but just remember any new facts will need a source for it. And welcome to Wikipedia!  Euryalus (talk) 22:56, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing punctuation in paragraph 6 

message: "However, it is considered a rash claim considering such mega-fauna were adapted to previous climate cycles..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by  121.215.158.53 (talk • contribs)  3:08, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV/Weasel words 

message: I removed the following section from the article on multiple grounds as explained bellow, primarily as it does not follow Wikipedia's first fundamental principle.
==Criticisms==
===Position on nuclear power in Australia===
In 2006, Flannery said:
:  Over the next two decades, Australians could use nuclear power to replace all our coal-fired power plants. We would then have a power infrastructure like that of France, and in doing so we would have done something great for the world, for whatever risks go with a domestic nuclear power industry are local, while greenhouse gas pollution is global in its impact.http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/lets-talk-about-nuclear-power-emandem-other-energy-sources/2006/05/29/1148754933159.html
In 2010, Flannery denied ever supporting nuclear power in Australia.http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/flannery_vs_bolt_transcript/
===Conflicts of interests===
Flannery is an investor in geothermal technology.  Flannery's company, Geodynamics, received a $90 million grant from the Australian Government;http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20091106/pdf/31lwzd2gybd42k.pdf the same government to which Flannery is an advisor on climate change.
The issues are:
* Position on nuclear power in Australia: The claim is made, by presenting an excerpt from an article, that there would be an inconsistency in Flannery's advocacy regarding nuclear power. Flannery's response regarding the overall meaning of the article is interpreted as a denial. However, Flannery's position on nuclear power is not presented at all. This section is misleading and non-neutral.
* "Flannery's company, Geodynamics" is simply nonsense, and another element of non-neutrality. He is not among the top 20 shareholders  which means his holdings must be below 0.25% of the company - that barely makes the company "his". 
*"Conflicts of interests" - Unclear reason for using plural. No evidence of him having an advisory role to the federal government is presented. Conflict of interest is inferred however Flannery disclosed his shareholding in Geodynamics at least as long ago as 2006 .
* The whole section is based on a blog by an author on record for "abusing science" .
Given his notability in advocacy for action on climate change, his position on nuclear power, geothermal power and other forms of energy (coal, wind, etc.) are relevant, however these need to be presented from a neutral point of view, in an encyclopedic manner and properly sourced. --Elekhh (talk) 00:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-neutral POV, innacurate and misleading content

message: I've removed A homepage address of this publication is available at http://www.abc.net.au/science/future/, which provides more information, as well as critical analysis from Flannery’s peers on this work. since it really doesn't fit or belong in a BIO, it would on a personal website but just not here. The article should be about facts, not what a web page elsewhere has, reason why we have an "External link" section. Bidgee (talk) 12:45, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentence removed 

message: Tim's outrageous claims should not have been deleted from the page. It is not "talk" or "gossip" but is very relevant given his role.
His claimed that Perth would be the world's first metropolitan ghost town by 2008 and that Brisbane, Sydney and Adelaide would all be out of water by 2008 should all be mentioned because HE IS the Climate Commissioner! Such wild claims (which have been.....obviously untrue)by the Head of 'Climate Science' are extremely relevant. []
He also claims the oceans will rise by some ridiculous amount which is completley incongruous with the IPCC estimates of 2-3cm.
He also claimed there'd be no arctic ice by 2013. []
He also believes in something (fringe dweller) called Gaia - shouldn't this be mentioned as most pages on people will tell you what "faith" they belong to.[]
All of this is the Climate Commissioner's opinion on Climate; it is VERIFIABLE and REAL. If you don't want to include it because it embarrasses him, you're then being political and not proper.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.130.37.18 (talk) 05:16, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outrageous Claims (Corkers) 

message: In 2006 I added Tim Flannery's middle name to this page and it was deleted by an editor the same day yet 6 years later I noticed his middle name has been added by someone else and has been kept on the page. How times have changed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mirrabooka (talk • contribs) 12:30, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Middle Name 

message: He currently holds the important position of Chair in Environmental Sustainability. I think this should be mentioned.
http://www.science.mq.edu.au/news_and_events/news/new_panasonic_chair_in_environmental_sustainability  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.117.60 (talk) 12:01, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chair in Environmental Sustainability 

message: *Can Our Species Escape Destruction? October 13, 2011 by John Terborgh in The New York Review of Books
99.181.134.12 (talk) 03:32, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Why add the non-notable review?  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 05:53, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  add notable review 

message: Where does the backing for the statement "The Commission is an independent body which does not comment on government policy." come from?
I question its validity, for example during public forums the commissioners have commented on policy impacts. 
Follow this link below for an example:
http://climatecommission.gov.au/questions/would-a-carbon-tax-mean-a-net-loss-of-jobs-for-business-or-send-businesses-overseas/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.117.60 (talk) 08:31, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Climate commission does comment on policy 

message: A lot of critism made by some others like Bowman or Wroe about Flannery iper-simplicistic idea about the Australia destruction and extinction made by ancient austrlian. Why this is not more evident here? I don't have anything vs Flannery but some of his conclusions are hotly debated and not surely proof. Just as example, for Bowman the fire farming actually SAVED the forests despite the climate went more and more arid. See the special Future Eaters (TV program, the texts are on internet and linked even in the article).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.11.0.22 (talk) 21:49, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: what about the Flannery 'Eaters'?

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 11 external links on Tim Flannery. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130712122647/http://web.science.mq.edu.au/for/business_and_community/panasonic-chair/ to http://web.science.mq.edu.au/for/business_and_community/panasonic-chair/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120627122339/http://www.latrobe.edu.au/alumni/profiles/full-profile?mode=results&queries_given-name_query=Tim&queries_family-name_query=Flannery to http://www.latrobe.edu.au/alumni/profiles/full-profile?mode=results&queries_given-name_query=Tim&queries_family-name_query=Flannery
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2006/s1844398.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.sciencearchive.org.au/nova/newscientist/105ns_001.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080306054308/http://news.smh.com.au/flannerys-views-on-whales-curious/20071231-1jmg.html to http://news.smh.com.au/flannerys-views-on-whales-curious/20071231-1jmg.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071231211609/http://www.livenews.com.au/articles/2007/12/31/Australian_of_the_year_reveals_his_support_for_whaling to http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2007/12/31/Australian_of_the_year_reveals_his_support_for_whaling
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090808104958/http://www.soldiersofpeacemovie.com/about/the-cast/18/tim-flannery/ to http://www.soldiersofpeacemovie.com/about/the-cast/18/tim-flannery/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120410045740/http://www.climatecommission.gov.au/ to http://www.climatecommission.gov.au/
*Added  tag to http://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/opinions-2008/opinion-jul3108.html
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071113202430/http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07%2F10%2F25%2F1454240 to http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07%2F10%2F25%2F1454240
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090815185342/http://worldfuturecouncil.org/tim_flannery.html to http://www.worldfuturecouncil.org/tim_flannery.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:38, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. ISBNs and other persistent identifiers, where available, are commented out, but still available for reference. This is a work in progress; feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 (talk) 03:23, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: I have added several citations. The source I found for the number of papers published only verified 100 papers, and ongoing involvement with publishing and media. Therefore I left the marker on the statement: " He has contributed to over 143 scientific papers.[citation needed] ". Perhaps 143 is too specific a number, especially for an active academic who could still publish articles?   
Creativearts2019 20:32, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I would add the 100 ref, and also leave in the 143 citation needed too.  Aoziwe (talk) 22:25, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

text: You could include material from the above two references in a section such as "Presentation by media" but you would have to be very careful to remain strictly factual as per the exact content in sources, eg, not even a hint of WP:OR, and remain WP:NPOV.  You would also need to pay attention to WP:DUEWEIGHT and be minimal, otherwise you would be likely to run foul of BLP. Aoziwe (talk) 22:25, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations and verifying specifics 

message: Andrew Bolt from the Herald Sun wrote an article in 2011, It pays to check out Tim Flannery's predictions about climate change. The article provides discredits claims Flannery made regarding capital cities will be without drinking water in a few years.  Secondly, the detailed failure of Flannery recommending and influencing the Rudd Government to award $90 million dollars to Geodynamics in the Cooper Basin. Flannery has for years been a Geodynamics shareholder, a vested interest he sometimes declares. The technology Flannery said was "relatively straighforward" wasn't. One of Geodynamics' five wells at Innamincka collapsed in an explosion that damaged two others. All had to be plugged with cement. The project was hit by the kind of floods Flannery didn't predict in a warming world. The technological and financing difficulties mean there is no certainty now that a commercial-scale plant will ever get built, let alone prove viable, so it's no surprise the company's share price has almost halved in four months.   
The ABC reported in August 2016, Geothermal power project closes in SA as technology deemed not financially viable. 
This section has a lot of problems. Many of the articles contained could eventually be integrated in a productive way, but right now there are glaring NPOV problems, as well as structural issues with how these sections are presented. Jlevi (talk) 02:13, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Geodynamics Project