Talk:All Lights Fucked on the Hairy Amp Drooling

message: Is there any proof that this actually exists?  As beloved as Godspeed is (and considering how obsessive some of their fans can be), if there was a copy of this, it most likely would've been ripped and be circulating the internet.  Or is it already?  I suspect that it's some sort of band in-joke, but as it's listed as an official release by several authorities, there has to be a copy out there somewhere.  Chris Berry 04:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there is proof that this recording exists. See the Wayback Machine's results. However, I doubt any physical proof will ever be found. angular (discuss·contribs) 03:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Their non-traditional record company could be lying. 24.91.16.229 06:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There would be a master somewhere - no record company would just sit on an album they know people would buy.  The tape doesn't exist, and neither do any of the songs. --NEMT 16:47, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: NEMT - This doesn't necessarily follow - If the band, specifically Efrim, doesn't want it released, I could believe that Constellation would respect that. La Monte Young has famously refused to release Theatre of Eternal Music recordings for nigh on 40 years! Of course, the theory that it's a joke is believable too.
.... Efrim never said he doesn't want it released. He said he doesn't care enough to go out of his way to release it. He even said he's looked on the internet to see if someone's posted it because it would be interesting. 68.84.235.198 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 02:07, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Verification? 

message: not suitable for wikipedia obviously, but CST have confirmed by emails posted on afterthepostrock.com that they have a copy of the cassette and that nobody's allowed to hear it. Obviously they could be lieing but they have made claims this specific.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.222.214.63 (talk) 14:33, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  email 

message: How the hell do you know its post-rock if you've never heard it.apparantly the genre of the album was more like funk jazz,and that they hadn't experimented with post rock yet.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nirvanarox55 (talk • contribs) 19:51, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I can only assume it's because GSYBE is dominantly post-rock so it's a safe assumption that this would be as well? TheLongingSH (talk) 01:31, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: this article says it is not post-rock http://thefourohfive.com/news/article/interview-efrim-menuck-of-a-silver-mt-zion 220.20.201.191 (talk) 13:31, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre 

message: There's some drama going on right now surrounding a tape that surfaced on reddit. Side A was ripped before the person with the tape backed out and deleted his post. That's the cause of the recent vandalism.
It might be noteworthy to post that a physical copy is known to exist out side of constellation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.151.167 (talk) 21:22, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  An IP user has taken issue with my inclusion of the (possible) hoax surfacing of this tape on reddit and removed my edit without discussion. I've reverted this and would like to raise the issue here. See my above comment - and might I add it's absurd to suggest that because I'd like to include this incident in the article that I am the perpetrator of the supposed hoax. 
Roomsmoody1924 (talk) 01:48, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recently surfaced. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This page for some time had a supposed track list for this phenomenon, which I removed. I wanted to start a thread for discussion with the person who's been re-posting that list. As I noted in the edit summary, we need something third-party to substantiate the tracklist per WP:V. A (virtually unreadable) single, primary source isn't sufficient to demonstrate that this is a genuine release; we have no documentation of the contents of this release from a reliable third-party source and no ability to compare it to the (alleged) original release itself. If it were an ordinary published work, like most bands' releases, none of this would be necessary, but this is a special case and requires reliable, exceptional sourcing. Chubbles (talk) 20:08, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alleged tracklist 

message: Information about the recent potential leak on 4chan's /mu/ board is trying to be deleted on the grounds of being irrelevant. Most of this article is about the tape's obscurity and people's interest in finding it. This is the first potential leak in almost a decade so yes it's absolutely relevant, even if it turns out (probably) fake like the Reddit debacle. If you want to ignore this development then might as well delete the paragraph about the Reddit hoax too, or just nuke the whole article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:710F:6C00:B00C:F068:12AC:6D03 (talk) 00:02, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Since reliable media (Exclaim!) is covering it, it may be added, but only insofar as the statements are supported by the reliable media. Speculations will be removed. Chubbles (talk) 00:45, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  4chan leak 

message: A member of the group, its label, and several reliable sources have acknowledged its release. 66.30.12.132 (talk) 19:08, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: If reliable sources have then just provide a citation, and make the change. AquitaneHungerForce (talk) 19:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

text: I agree but unfortunately, some editors here have a very biased opinion and made baseless claims in the past. For instance, one editor stated the following to justify page deletion ("the "album" appears to have been a rumor invented or encouraged by the band for the sake of having an air of mystique"), which is pure non-sense. That said, I do not think that the recent leak of the tape on some obscure forum is a particularly good reason to change anything to this page. There are hundreds of thousands of old records and tapes for which there is no trace of digital files on the internet. Hence the presence of a digital version does not seem particularly relevant. 82.10.25.108 (talk) 19:39, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Reliable sources have reported on an alleged leak. We don't have a reliable source reporting any empirical confirmation. When and if that happens, I'm happy to see the wording of the page change. Chubbles (talk) 04:23, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Sigh, I'm not referring to the leak. I'm suggesting the first sentence change from "is claimed to be the earliest release" to "is the earliest release". 66.30.12.132 (talk) 11:55, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Reliable sources have reported on the alleged leak of a possibly extant album. We don't have a reliable source reporting any empirical confirmation that the audio released is, in fact, the possibly extant album. Sorry for being insufficiently clear. Chubbles (talk) 12:41, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: And to also try to be perfectly clear, I'm not referring to *any* subsequently released audio; I'm referring only to the existence of the original 1994 cassette this article describes, noted in/by The Wire (1998), Constellation (2000), Efrim Menuck (2000 & 2010), The Rough Guide to Rock (2003), and The Encyclopedia of Popular Music (2011), all of which state or treat the album as fact. 66.30.12.132 (talk) 13:34, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: And all of the third-party sources did so in absence of any actual audio (Constellation's own website and statements from Menuck are primary). Kind of remarkable lapse in journalistic integrity, actually, though an understandable one. However, it's noteworthy that the reporting on the most recent event is extraordinarily careful not to make definitive statements that this is the "missing album". Chubbles (talk) 14:52, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:PRIMARY: "A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. For example, an article about a musician may cite discographies and track listings published by the record label..." 66.30.12.132 (talk) 15:09, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: An excellent guideline, that I explicitly supported, for the 99.99999% of cases where the existence of the published record is not in doubt. This is the edge case. Chubbles (talk) 16:56, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  As I said earlier, I do not understand why this would be more in doubt than thousands of records and tapes for which almost no trace can be found on the internet. Think for example of professional libraries for films and TV, which are officially released in extremely limited editions. While people are unreasonably intense about this particular tape, I really do not understand the doubt. 82.10.25.108 (talk) 21:01, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Those limited-edition releases don't have articles; most of them aren't mentioned on any Wikipedia page at all. If they were, and no audio could be confirmed by any third-party source, the same level of circumspection should apply. Chubbles (talk) 12:22, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

text:  Since at least a couple editors don't share your doubt and we're at an impasse, an RfC (below) may be a way forward. 66.30.12.132 (talk) 18:27, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to remove "claimed to be" from lede 

message: A brief discussion arose today at the List of 2022 albums talk page about whether the original 1994 release should be considered "official" or not, given its limited scope and the apparent attempts to bury the album's existence prior to the recent leak/new release. A number of sources (e.g. The Line of Best Fit, Exclaim!, and Pitchfork) are calling this new release "official" which prompted me to add the album to the 2022 list, but the concern is that the original release should perhaps take precedent in this case, meaning the album gets listed in 1994 instead. Before making any edits in this regard, I'd like to see a consensus around this question: Do we consider the original 1994 release to be "official" despite the aforementioned factors, or do we follow the sources claiming the 2022 release is "official" and leave it as is? QuietHere (talk) 21:11, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Official release" 

message: I added a hidden note to the genre section which was rolled back so I'd like to provide an explanation here as to why the hidden text is valuable and meets guidelines.  The text is:
: 
I added this following the third time I removed various unsourced genres from the article. , , , .  Genres were removed in accordance with WP:UNSOURCED (see also WP:GWAR).
I think this falls completely in line with the recommended usage of WP:HIDDEN, specifically:
: Reminding others of Wikipedia policies where they have been frequently broken. For example, in many articles, hidden text is necessary to remind editors not to add inappropriate links. On the page Help:Getting started, hidden text is used to let others know not to write their first article on that page.
And with regards to being peremptive, the bullet point reads:
: Telling others not to perform certain edits to a page, unless there is an existing guideline or policy against that edit. 
There is a guideline here: WP:OR.  The description does not preclude additions of genres, only those without sourcing.
AquitaneHungerForce (talk) 21:28, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Essentially the same notice appears in the default version of Template:Infobox_album, as well as two others. I think the fact that those have been there forever and nobody's said anything about it is evidence enough that these notices are okay. The whole point of WP:HIDDEN text is to leave notes and reminders for editors, and that's what is being accomplished in this case. QuietHere (talk) 22:45, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The main issue is with the hectoring tone. As the guideline notes, it should be worded in a way that doesn't make it sound like a decree from on high. Chubbles (talk) 13:35, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  The tone is exactly the same as the one in the template which reads .  If you have an issue with it I suggest you take it up there rather than here. AquitaneHungerForce (talk) 18:53, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Chubbles (talk) 23:06, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre and hidden note