Talk:List of Source mods/Archive 2

message: I flagged this article for improper tone because it flagrantly abuses the use of the second person voice.  It's really just not appropriate in an encyclopedia article to see sentences like: "... gives the HL2 single player campaign harder challenges, 4 gamemodes to test your skills with, a wide array of weapons, and 5 different player classes to best suit your gaming style." (emphasis mine)   --Cyde Weys votetalk 00:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I fully agree with what you're saying. I'm gonna go through right now to make it more encyclopaedic, make NPOV, etc...--Katana314 13:44, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flagged for improper tone 

message: POV dispute by A Clown in the Dark: "on several mods this reads like an ad"
Would removing the ModDB awards/rankings help to resolve this? --Pizzahut2 12:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think they're complaining about the ModDB awards, I think they're complaining about how some of the write-ups for the mods is not neutral.  Many of the entries are being written by the mod maintainers, after all, and may contain such content as, "This is going to have all new totally innovative features."  ModDB awards are actually NPOV ... it's not the Wikipedia editors deciding which mods are good and which aren't, it's an outside, verifiable, citable source.  --Cyde Weys 12:42, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: It looks like more and more people are putting up their mods here, and most sound very un-Wikipedia, and more like adverts. Someone change? Oh, and Jurassic Rage moved to UT2004 because the team had problems with SDK. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.166.11 (talk) 02:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turning into an advert page? 

message: In the AfD it was suggested to have only notable mods in the list.
I've put a note into the article to address this:
Notable mods are either "blue linked" (have their own article without getting it deleted in an AfD discussion) or can provide a proof of notability (awards, winning a competition/contest like the Independent Games Festival and/or making an appearance in Mod DB's "Mod Of The Year" feature).
--Pizzahut2 13:47, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability 

message: It isn't like a half-finished book, it's more like a game in development. The velociraptor 13:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For reference, here is the last revision which includes the unreleased mods. --Pizzahut2 19:48, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add the mod-in-progresses back. 

message: This might be good to know when editing the article: Wikipedia:List guideline#Purpose of lists --Pizzahut2 19:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Purpose of lists 

message: From the (closed) AfD discussion: "Also, to the idea that a non-released mod is, by definition, non-notable, ah...hogwash. I'd to like to hear the argument that the Black Mesa mod is non-notable; that project has Valve's direct blessing, for one thing."
Generally I tend to agree that unreleased mods are non-notable, on Wikipedia at least.Black Mesa is an exception, perhaps it should be added to the list. --Pizzahut2 22:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreleased mods 

message: The Black Mesa section is incorrect.  They were not "disappointed" with VALVe's Half Life: Source, because they understood that HL:S was just to show how easy it would be to port a game over.  And why are they considered "blessed"?  Who considers them blessed?  That is poor phrasing.
This section needs a lot of work.  Besides which, if I am not mistaken, wasn't the Unreleased Mods section removed as a whole?  As a matter of fact, I'm removing Black Mesa.  If anyone disagrees, feel free to replace it.  -El Carnemago
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.242.17.74 (talk • contribs) 00:21, 26 December 2006  (UTC)
The consensus was that notable unreleased mods would be included, and that Black Mesa was notable. FYI, the term "blessed" in this context is colloquial English useage; it means that an entity (in this case Valve software) has explicitly approved of something (in this case, Black Mesa). Please undo your edit, thanks.
Gooshy 00:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Mesa Section 

message: http://www.pvkii.com/
I don't know if this mod is very notable so I'm going to ask if it's OK to put this mod in the article since the beta has been released. Unicyclopedia 01:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pirates, Vikings, and Knights II 

message: I added this mod to the list today (1/9/06). the mod has had several releases, and is on version 1.7
http://www.hl2ctf.com
Polygon 00:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Half Life 2: Capture The Flag 

message: I remember when this list was MUCH longer. Why were the mods removed? (They were not in development, there were completed, non-beta versions released.)--Katana314 23:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Many mods removed? 

message: Here's which Half-Life mods got into Mod DB's MOTY 2006:
=== Mod of the Year 2006 ===
==== Honorable Mentions ====
Mods which came close to victory.
* Garry's Mod
* Natural Selection (HL1)
* Dystopia
==== Winners ====
* 5th Place. MINERVA
* 4th Place. Hidden: Source
* 3rd Place. GoldenEye: Source
=== Most Anticipated Mods of 2006 ===
==== Honorable Mentions ====
* Perfect Dark: Source
==== Winners ====
* 4th Place. Insurgency
* 1st Place. Black Mesa
=== Top Mods by Genre ===
* Action. SourceForts
* Adventure. Afraid of Monsters (HL1) [deleted], Honorable Mention: Iris
* Puzzle. BlockStorm, Honorable Mention: Hypercube: Source
* Multi-Genre. Empires [deleted], Honorable Mention: Iron Grip: The Oppression
* Sports. International Online Soccer (HL1) [deleted]
--Pizzahut2 09:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MOTY 2006 

message: * Action. SourceForts
* Adventure. Afraid of Monsters (HL1) [deleted], Honorable Mention: Iris
* Puzzle. BlockStorm, Honorable Mention: Hypercube: Source
* Multi-Genre. Empires [deleted], Honorable Mention: Iron Grip: The Oppression
* Sports. International Online Soccer (HL1) [deleted]
--Pizzahut2 09:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top Mods by Genre 

message: I'm not a mapper / modder, but it seems the VERC website has been replaced with the VDC.
So I'd suggest replacing the VERC link at the bottom with a link to the VERC Network Forums:
http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?b=390
--Pizzahut2 23:16, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  VERC website 

message: When creating an article about a mod, you cannot directly copy and paste the description from another website (not even from the official mod website), unless the text on the website is under a license compatible to the one Wikipedia uses (GFDL). There are two options:
* Write your own text.
* The copyright owner explicitly grants usage under the GFDL.
--Pizzahut2 14:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A word on copyrights 

message: I just gave this article a thorough cleaning up in the multiplayer section.  I cited every statement of an award, as well as finding others.  Perhaps this should be a requirement of notability since several of these mods don't have any award that I could dig up. // 3R1C 02:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serious Overhaul 

message: At Talk:List of Half-Life mods#Wikipedia is not a directory the suggestion was made to remove the mods which don't have their own Wikipedia article. I'm thinking the same can be applied to the Half-Life 2 mod list. --Pizzahut2 23:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up 

message: Black Mesa is multiplayer co-op as well; that's what most of the fuss is over... BlueRaja 04:48, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Mesa 

message: Who are you to decide which mods are notable and which are not? PS. Not going to learn the wikipedia syntax just to point out an obvious flaw in the system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.210.153 (talk • contribs) 17:07, 12 June 2007
: The current idea is that you can add any mod, but it must have an article. If someone thinks the mod isn't notable, he or she can not just delete the mod at will, but has to follow Wikipedia guidelines. E.g. placing a tag for speedy deletion with a reason to be reviewed by an admin. Or with a proposed deletion, which anyone can contest, both of which must have valid reasons. Or by adding an AfD discussion. --Pizzahut2 18:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flaw in the system 

message: There's a good number of multiplayer mods, enough to put them into categories. I was thinking along the lines of gameplay types: co-op, CTF, (T)DM, objective(s), other. Or by scenario: sci-fi, war, HL2 themed, zombie, other. Just an idea. :) --Pizzahut2 16:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorising multiplayer mods 

message: While the VDC does have a GFDL compatible license, a lot of mod articles over there are a direct copy&paste from the official website. So often VDC articles cannot be used at Wikipedia (because of copyright/licensing). --Pizzahut2 20:42, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mod articles at the VDC 

message: I'm thinking that having a link to 2005 or to Mod DB in every award is a bit overkill. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Wikilinks. I can hardly see a relevance when linking to a year or day. So my suggestion would be link to relevant articles (e.g. Mod DB) sparingly, and I'm not sure if it makes sense to link to dates at all (within the scope of this article). --Pizzahut2 13:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiki links 

message: I for one have used this page in it's previous form many times- I think I speak for many people when I say it was informative and offered all that was neccessary to make a judgement to know what you want to know more about, and it included links to mods.
--89.243.96.212 10:13, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not a directory. We should only be listing notable mods here. This is normally asserted by coverage from multiple reliable sources. Marasmusine 10:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is this being changed? 

message: I'm thinking this is a fairly notable mod.
Google hits:
*CS-Nation - insurgency mod
*IGN - Insurgency Mod Hands-On (preview)
*pariahs-guild.com - Reviews-Insurgency
*Planet Half-Life - Insurgency 2.0
*SteamFriends - Insurgency Review and Interview
*TechTornado - Insurgency (blog)
*TheMotherBrain - Insurgency Review (blog)
--Pizzahut2 (talk) 12:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The coverage looks good. Marasmusine (talk) 13:15, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Insurgency 

message: I noticed there was is a request for a wiki article on Empires mod. What's to keep it from being deleted again this time? It's been afd'ed before and subsequently removed in the drive to remove all mods in  Nov '06. I'm not going to put any effort for the fun of it being deleted by non-notability you know. --L3TUC3 02:05, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Do: Empires

message: Hey, you guys forgot the only fighting mod for Half Life 2, One Must Fall: Destiny.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.177.210.27 (talk) 23:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is just a selection of mods, not a complete list. Mods in here should be notable (in the context of Wikipedia, see WP:N). --Pizzahut2 (talk) 00:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

text: No, it wouldn't. The mod requires substantial coverage from (preferably multiple) independent, reliable sources. Alternatively some kind of award from a notable source. Marasmusine (talk) 09:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fighting Mod For HL2

message: There are quite a few references that are links to external scans of magazine pages. Whilst the images are useful for gathering information for material and citations, they shouldn't be used as the citations themselves. They should be changed to :Template:Cite journal, with the links to the scanned images moved to this talk page. Same goes for the individual mod articles too, if they have been used there. Marasmusine (talk) 09:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: One of the game's increasingly popular multiplayer mods, Counter-Strike: Source has not been included. Is there a reason for this? 202.89.172.211 01:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Strictly speaking, CS:S isn't a (Half-Life 2) mod. It's a separate game which just happens to use the same engine as Half-Life 2, the Source engine. --Pizzahut2 21:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  And mods are separate games that use the same engine as Half-Life 2, I don't understand what you mean.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.37.49.8 (talk) 18:48, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Use our Wp:Verifiability policy. If multiple reliable sources call it a Mod, then we do too. If they don't, we don't. Marasmusine (talk) 22:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

text: The difference between a game and a mod is that a game is standalone - it will work without the need of another game or mod. A mod is a modification of an existing game - it will not work without this game. With Valve's Source SDK Base things are a bit different, Source mods need this instead of a game. --Pizzahut2 (talk) 19:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add "Counter-Strike: Source" to the list? 

message: I've started an article about Flipside, feel free to add! --Pizzahut2 (talk) 10:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flipside 

message: * There must be some basic level of assurance that this mod is not vaporware.  A general guideline is if the mod does not have a website yet or a downloadable playable version, it does not belong in this list.
* Each mod should be listed only once.  If it has both singleplayer and multiplayer components, list it only in one category, but be sure to remark on all of its play modes.
* Mods should be inserted into lists in alphabetical order.
* Do not create wikilinks (i.e. UltraCoolMod) for a mod unless it actually has a Wikipedia article.  "Red" (missing) wikilinks will be removed.
* Follow the general formatting and style of the other mods in the list when adding a mod.
* Use formal language.  Do not use the second person voice (i.e. "you" or "your").  Use proper spelling, punctuation, capitalization, etc.  Remember, this is an encyclopedia, not a chatroom.
* Write everything in a neutral point of view.  This is not the place to editorialize on a mod, i.e. "This is uber" or "This mod sucks".
These guidelines have originally been written by Cyde.  --Pizzahut2 10:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, if you can show where these mods have received substantial coverage from reliable, independent sources then I'd be happy to make a stub article for them and add them to the list. Marasmusine (talk) 08:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guidelines for adding mods to the article 

message: Before putting this away as advertising, self-promotion, crystal ball (unreleased), not notable etc etc (please read WP:NOT), let's see if there is something to let this stay:
* A wiki article, most of it a straight copy&paste from the website - for Wikipedia this would either have to be rewritten, or put the website (the text at least) under the GFDL.
* Some third party recognition, afaik blogs and fan sites do not count though.
**http://cloverfield.wikia.com/index.php?title=Grayshot&direction=prev&oldid=5090#Press
**http://www.grayshotgame.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=62
It's not possible to include every mod there is, that's why this is a selected list.
So what is used for the selection? If a mod manages to have an article on Wikipedia, this usually means that it's notable enough. It's prefered to have an article anyway, like the list of webcomics does have articles also. In addition to the article, references (to "reliable sources") are mandatory, otherwise the whole list might not have a place on Wikipedia. (See discussion at Talk:List of Half-Life mods#To-do: references.) This is because unlike aforementioned list of webcomics, the list of HL2 mods does include short descriptions. A plain list apparently can stay, so having references is not always mandatory on Wikipedia. --Pizzahut2 (talk) 20:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Grayshot game that mysteriously comes back to the article repeatedly 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "2006mods2" :
** 
** 
DumZiBoT (talk) 12:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: For reference, the link to the name change. --Pizzahut2 (talk) 17:39, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  HL2 vs. Source engine mod 

message: The redlink was a bit of an eyesore, so I have made a stub article for this mod. Interested parties may wish to expand, as the references provided may or may not be enough to assert notability. Thanks, Marasmusine (talk) 10:11, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Perfect Dark: Source]]

message: I propose that Operation Black Mesa be redirected to List of Source engine mods as a plausible search term for the list. I have proposed a similar merger to Black Mesa (video game), but the rough consensus indicated that the location of the redirect was not feasible (see Talk:Black Mesa (video game)#Merge/redirect proposal). Please discuss below and indicate whether you want to merge, redirect, or oppose any merge or redirect. MuZemike 22:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is still awaiting any kind of independent reference. At the moment I would actually support an AfD instead. I can support a redirect if a third-party reference is provided that can satisfy verifiability policy. If somehow a whole bunch of sources turn up to satisfy notability, then leave it here. Marasmusine (talk) 23:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge/redirect proposal 

message: The information there is either common knowledge among the community (so its not written in any one place) most of the other information was re-worded directly from the website. If you've got a problem with the sources; for whatever reason you could possibly have, take the couple minutes to actually look into what you are removing, maybe you can do some good by touching up references or citations if they are needed. Does a phrase like "sometimes water can be cold" need a source, too? Please use your discretion and common sense when deleting information. In the mean time, I'll try to add as many references as possible.. 24.108.96.66 (talk) 03:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resistance and Liberation: sources 

message: How about upcoming mods "They Hunger: Lost Souls", and "Science and Industry 2". And also, "Natural Selection 2", but it hasn't not been defined yet.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tucalipe (talk • contribs) 20:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Upcoming" and "notable" are usually mutually exclusive. Have either had any media coverage? Marasmusine 07:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Mods 

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I have just added archive links to  on List of Source engine mods. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 11 external links on List of Source mods. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Most of these games aren't mods, but just games developed with Source. Very few of the articles site sources supporting the claim that they're mods. Some cite sources explicitly claiming the opposite.
In its current state, I recommend deletion of the article. Misinformation is worse than no information.
72.193.105.70 (talk) 00:04, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most of these aren't mods and should be removed 

message: I was trying to add portal 2 speedrun mod into the list, but both times my edit was rejected, because there were no third-party references. There are only three places with info about this mod:
* The official website: https://krzyhau.github.io/Portal2SpeedrunMod/
* The github page: https://github.com/Krzyhau/Portal2SpeedrunMod
* The speedrun leaderboard: https://www.speedrun.com/p2sm
So what kind of refrences should I add?
AlphaMrWave (talk) 13:22, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  What kind of third-part references are requred?