Talk:Samael

message: The footnote or "source" for the statement in the article Lede, which is a bare link to the EarlyChristianWritings.com page on Ascension of Isaiah, does not support the statement that is made about Samael at all.  In the Ascension of Isaiah, Samael is an evil demon, associated with Beliar and the powers of the firmament.  He does not reside in the fifth heaven.  This is a big mistake and drastically reduces the value of this Wikipedia article. I don't have time to edit this page at this time, but I ask that someone else please make the necessary changes.  Matthew Baldwin (talk) 16:37, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samael "in the fifth heaven" footnote inaccurate 

message: Has Samael ever been mentioned in any translation/version of the Christian Bible?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.181.168.245 (talk) 09:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samael in the Christian Bible 

message: Removed from the article as unverifiable (spectacularly fails the Google test — one hit for "sammael ansi artist", which no longer exists):
:Sammael is the handle of an ANSI artist who was active in the scene from 1994 to 1999.  He was a member of many high profile groups including Samsara, FiRE, CiA, Rile, and Anemia.
Uncle G 16:39, 2005 Jan 7 (UTC)
Many if not most ANSI artists are impossible to google as the web wasn't what it is today when the ANSI scene was alive.  This link this linkshows much of his work:
Samael has veered very very very far from what would usually be labeled black metal. Progressive metal is a more accepted label, although the music is naturally unclassifiable.
:In any case, an artist with the same name would have his own page(which would be called "Samael(ARtist)" or "Samael(singer)" etc...), at most he'd have link to that page here.
Samael doesn't owe Evil 'nobody or nothin'. 'Not the Truth, nor any Mercy.' Meaner and badder, and by far, more strong-Willed, than Lucifer. More than the Devil, himself. The benchmark of Jews.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.103.165.133 (talk) 07:59, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  ANSI ARtist confusion. 

message: I edited out some of the parts concerning Lucifer and a explanation of why Lucifer is not Samael, although informative, it seemed to be written in a way that a great deal about Lucifer and not Samael, who this article is about, so I cut some of it.Xuchilbara 00:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well in the TV show Lucifer, they mention that his given name from God was Sameal, and he hates that name… I know it's a tv show but they are very spot on with biblical references about everything and everyone else so I find it hard to believe they'd have that wrong 2600:1700:83B1:1E70:3D1C:98E2:81BE:EE0C (talk) 16:14, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lucifer and Satan 

message: "Samael in Kabbalah is the Qliphoth corresponding to the sephirah Hod. It means "the poison of God", the liar and the jugglers, and the demons associated with it are described as dull-yellow, demon-headed dog-like monsters.[citation needed]
The Qliphoth is the unbalanced aspect of a particular sephirah. Hod is the sephirah concerned with rationalisation, intellectualism and the occult, that gives form to ideas, as opposed to Netzach, that is raw energy, the ability of passion to transcend form. Hod must be balanced with Qliphoth to prevent dullness that follows from complete rationalization of the world, such as that of the sceptic who believes he knows everything and dismisses many potentially joyous experiences out of hand. For this reason, Hod becomes Samael, the Liar, the Juggler, who through clever words and rationalisations denies the existence of anything higher or greater.[citations needed]"
I've been told that Samael is actually attributed to the sephira, Geburah. According to Gustav Davidson in "A Dictionary of Angels" on page 255. "In Waite, The Holy Kabbalah, p.255, Samael is characterized as the "severity of God" and is listed as 5th of the archangles of the world of Briah. Here he corresponds to the sefira Geburah." Samael and is also attributed to Mars, Geburah's planet. EGGO 05:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Samael does preside over Gevurah or Din as Archangel, and is attributed to Mars in this guise.  Since the Prince of the Left-Hand Emanation had an ominous and dangerous aspect, however, the name was often written differently as Camael of Kamael or Khamael. Note that the Hebrew letter Kaph resembles a Samekh that has not been closed at the right. Whether this is a deliberate avoidance of writing the title in full or merely the result of bad transcription, I do not know. That said, yes, the cohorts of the Kelippot answering to the eighth emanation, Hod, are ascribed as "Samael" as well, though I suspect this was a matter of Mathers or Kircher or whoever either getting muddled or glossing over the true attribution as a blind.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.213.144.148 (talk) 02:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Samael in other traditions

message: I decided to make a entire talk tribute page to the weird Silent Hill fan based speculations regarding Samael that seem to just eternally keep popping up here. If anybody wants to contest that on why its being removed and how factually inaccurate or accurate some of info, please do tell. 
"
* Samael is the Demon God Ruler of Silent Hill In the First and Third Silent Hill Video Games For The Playstation 1 and Playstation 2. The Cult Group known as The Order worships him and they summoned him to the town. Samael Is Defeated by Harry Mason (the main character of the first Silent Hill) in the Good and Good+ ending of the Game.He Returns in the Third Game, Silent Hill 3 but is Defeated again for a final time by Harry Mason's Daughter Heather Morris (Cheryl Mason). Samael is still recovering in Silent Hill 2, and Is therefore not shown. He No longer is in power over the Demonic town when Silent Hill 4 Takes Place."
This was taken out because: 
*1. Samael is never mentioned in Silent Hill series, he's only mentioned in 1 through the "Mark of Samael". The games and extra works do not state Samael's overall importance and the fact remains that he is only mentioned in Sh1 and does not appear anywhere else, not even in other documents. 
*2. See above document from the game of Silent Hill 3, in which God was not given demon names except by opposers. Furthermore the God of the Order is a female Solar deity, not male as Samael is, obviously. And the SH creators stated that the supposed "Mark of Samael" has little or no profound signafigance and falls under the catagory of word play by Dahlia. Any Silent Hill fan would know that its hard to trust everything Dahlia says as she is a known manipulater through words and attempts to decieve Harry multiple times.
*3 The God Harry defeats in one is based of the image of God that Dahlia had, or more accurately the image of Baphomet. Its labeled as a incubus and dream demon by more than one official source. Samael is not a part of this incubi-succbea/night/dream class of demons, although his wife Lilith certinly is.
*4. In the third game, the God that Heather defeats is made after the image of God that Claudia had. This is image is of Alessa and all the monster's parts are female, how could she be even remotely considered to be Samael?
*5. Samael and other Jewish figures have nothing to do with Silent Hill 2. They are not even mentioned. "Samael is still recovering in Silent Hill 2, and Is therefore not shown." That is speculation.
*6."He No longer is in power over the Demonic town when Silent Hill 4 Takes Place." More speculation.
Xuchilbara 19:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The incorrect assertion that Samael is the cultist God of Silent Hill has been removed (probably again). The name is only ever used in reference to the "Mark of Samael", and Silent Hill 3 makes clear that this name is an intentional misnomer. I cited a source from the Silent Hill 3 file transcript, though I may not have the formatting correct--I'm new at this.
It is a difficult source to verify by text because there is no text in the game stating outright that the Seal of Metatron/Virun VII Crest is the same object as the so-called "Mark of Samael". You learn this by seeing the two and making a visual comparison, and I can't think of any way to translate that into a workable method on Wikipedia. I just wanted to make this clarification so that the change is not reverted to its original, inaccurate state. There is no entity within Silent Hill named Samael.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iungwu (talk • contribs) 22:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Silent Hill

message: I give up. What the hell is 'Anthrosophism'?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.128.44 (talk) 00:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's just a typo. Cyb3r (talk) 01:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthrosophism 

message: Could someone write some text telling what "Göap" is and why it redirects here? 71.90.130.7 (talk) 03:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The previous page said "Göap is most often known as Samael, appearing as Göap only in the Ars Goetia." However, it seems it probably refers to Gaap, as that page specifically mentions Ars Goetia." I think it may be a typo, actually. So I changed the redirect to go there instead. Dan0 00 (talk) 14:36, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect from Göap 

message: Hello friends.
I need help in order to revert some unsourced vandalisms that are happening in the page.
Archangel Of FireArchangel of Fire (talk) 14:55, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samael's wikipage suffering vandalism. 

message: I though AZRAEL is the angel of death
the article for Azrael claims he is the Islamic and Judaeochristian angel of death
The article is incorrect, it has mistakenly taken the traits described for Samael and Azazel and jumbled them together. Thefifthlord (talk) 20:03, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  article contradictions 

message: There's a lot of poorly-worded gibberish near the end of the article that seems to have been written by someone to whom English is a second language. While the author seems to have a lot of detail concerning the topic, the way it's written is messy and doesn't make a lot of sense.76.186.52.32 (talk) 19:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-nonsense 

message: Although it is true that Samael does not mean "Poison of God" and that its origin is not of a negative derivation, we need to remember that the early languages were not exact, and transcriptions often did not change names thought they did change meanings to new culture's beliefs and words. Therefore, there also exists evidence that says the meaning of Samael is "The Desolate One". This not withstanding, that was always one of the main difficulties in translating these ancient languages.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Uwriel Immortallo (talk • contribs) 13:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The translation of ancient languages, is of course especially difficult for those who do not know the language in question.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.125 (talk) 19:35, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-Technicality of Early Languages 

message: The name Samael is mentioned once in the Apocryphon of John, with no elaboration.  What is the source of the claim that its meaning in this context is "blind god"?  What is the source of the claim that "the theme of blindness" runs "throughout gnostic works"?  Where is his appearance described as "a lion-faced serpent" or "a blind soldier"? 24.179.143.119 (talk) 04:03, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: New stuff goes at the bottom.  I've added a reference for the lion-faced serpent (it's contextual, but it's there).  I remember seeing something that could be used as a source for the other two commments somewhere, but it's quarter past midnight where I am, and I may get to go out with my girlfriend tomorrow, so it'll have to wait (sorry). Ian.thomson (talk) 04:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, thanks for the quick response (and for moving this to the bottom; I've never edited much, so I don't really know protocol).  I found the lion-faced serpent description as you linked it, but it's directly in reference to the name Yaltabaoth -- which, in the context of this Apocryphon at least, is supposed to be the same being as Samael, but are the three names entirely interchangeable, or do they name different forms/faces/manifestations of this being?  Even if we assume the names are interchangeable, I think it should be noted in the article that the lion-faced serpent description is given to this being under the name Yaltabaoth.  Does that seem reasonable?  Also, I note that the article on Demiurge says: “Samael” literally means “Blind God” or “God of the Blind” in Aramaic (Syriac sæmʕa-ʔel).  If that's true, why does this article on Samael specify the name only means that "in this context" (of the Apocryphon of John)?  Are there other interpretations?24.179.143.119 (talk) 21:14, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: IIRC, different gnostic groups came up with different meanings. The Apocryphon of John does go with Yaldabaoth/Saklas/Samael being different names for the same being, so I dunno if we even need to mention that it's directed at Yaldabaoth (it'd be kinda like taking some description of El Shaddai in the Hebrew Bible being directed at El Elyon in some other text, and pointing out it was originally towards El Shaddai, different title, same being).  Also, while (or rather because) I didn't get to see my girlfriend today, I'm not going to doing more work today, sorry, I'm going to be irresponsible and watch a movie to distract me.  ... I've also got church, and I've gotta get to the DMV... It may be a bit, but I will try to dig up those sources.  Ian.thomson (talk) 21:25, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samael meaning "blind god"? 

message: In the old World of Darkness setting for White_Wolf's Vampire:_the_Masquerade Samael is named as the progenitor of the Salubri clan of vampires.  67.149.196.9 (talk) 17:48, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That... Doesn't exactly affect culture. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Which... Would be relevent if I were suggesting the creation of a new article page.  67.149.196.9 (talk) 09:51, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Still fancruft, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Ian.thomson (talk) 13:40, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Add it to the article or don't.  I just wanted to point it out as a pop culture reference.  This one seems more relevant than most of the other references in the culture section, seeing as it's a take on the actual mythological figure Samael and not just borrowing the name.  You should note that I only mentioned it on the discussion page instead of adding to the long list of schlock that is already sighted in the article.  67.149.196.9 (talk) 01:42, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samael in the White Wolf rpg Vampire the Masquerade. 

message: The picture in the main section with the caption "Samael personified ." (sic) links to Hades.jpg. Why? 68.50.244.172 (talk) 14:25, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Your opinion is not listed at "Identifying reliable sources". Ian.thomson (talk) 23:04, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Read "Identifiying reliable sources".  Read "No original research".  You don't seem to understand either concept. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Samael personified" = Hades? 

message: according to maimonides guide for the perplexed (part 2, chapter 30):
..the Serpent was a riding beast the size of a camel and that its rider was that who seduced Eve and that the rider was Samael. 
http://press.tau.ac.il/perplexed/chapters/chap_2_30.htm  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.19.120.132 (talk) 19:39, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samael rides the serpent 

message: This entry is not accurate. Bias. Do rabbis not fear slandering an Angel of the Lord God in good standing? Nothing to cite. Nothing needed for this entry. This article is false. Pure fantasy. Rabbis playing Dungeons & Dragons. They know better than to publish this nonsense. Refer to historical entries regarding how very much this article has changed recently, as if spinning some story. Has there been some mysterious breakthrough in academic coverage of Samael? No. Has some magical scroll, previously hidden, been found in some bat cave in Israel? No. This appears to be Dungeons & Dragons by dark rabbis, pure and simple.
Further, to be more serious, Son One is Samael (Elohim name). He is not the Fifth. He is Seraphim himself.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.103.165.133 (talk) 05:08, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia does not use original research, which is a polite way of saying that we don't care about what you've decided to make up about Samael, because unlike the article, what you said cited no professionally published, mainstream academic sources.  Ian.thomson (talk) 01:45, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  rabbinical slander 

message: -> is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is an accuser (satan) ?? Since it's well affirmed on the Satan page that satan means accuser and devil means slanderer in old testiment terms.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.220.157.192 (talk) 23:36, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is accuser (devil) 

message: Greetings
I am concered about the picture in this topic, because provides a more positive view on the "angel of death" and seems to handle the "angel of physical" (he is outching the body of human), while Samael is more going to be like a "venom", corrupting and more dispicted as a dark and evil beeing. In addition, the article "Azarel", got the same picture but Azrail is considered to be another angel than samael (and more posetive). Samael and Azrael are both titled "angel of death" but seem to have different meanings and I guess this picture confuses the meaning of this figures (especialy because of the more posetive intention of this picture here)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by VenusFeuerFalle (talk • contribs) 20:11, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture  

message: seriously? as an actual source? --97.122.110.250 (talk) 02:33, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: DO you mean "Darksiders"? As far as I know it is not within the text, it does not actually cites something.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 11:52, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  this seriously cites a video game? 

message: 1) Where is the source for the claim that Samael is one of the seven archangels? He isn't one of them in Catholic, Anglican, Orthodox, Coptic or Muslim tradition. Nor does he appear in the list of seven angels of the Book of Enoch. The article says that Saint Gregory included him in a supposed list of seven archangels, but it doesn't provide any backup for this.
2) The text excerpt under the "Other traditions" definitely doesn't come from the Assumption of Moses, but from the Revelation of Moses. Compare the Assumption: http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2124 with the Revelation: https://rejectedscriptures.weebly.com/the-revelation-of-moses.html
They're totally different texts.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.34.126.125 (talk) 11:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I will check it out.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 12:06, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Now I am confused: ​The Revelation of Moses is the same as The life of Adam and Eve from the first Century? Further I could not find "Samael" in any of both. Could yuo explain it further? (I want to add, I think the entire setion looks suspicious)--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 12:26, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samael as one of the seven archangels and the Assumption of Moses 

message: Here is a source about Samael, which is not yet within the article. It seems to include Bogomilite traces. However, I currently do not have the time and mind to go into detail about this matter and found it by coincedent. Since this article is frequently edited, maybe other Users are itnerested in imporving the article with the source: "Eter Intskirveli 
Shota Rustaveli Institute of 
Georgian Literature 
TRANSFORMATION OF COSMOGONIC NARRATIVE IN SVANETIAN 
MYTH-RITUAL SYSTEM".--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 20:01, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samael in Gregorien tradition?