Template talk:Clarinet

message: PLEASE NOTE: The list of clarinetists is not intended to be comprehensive; otherwise this box would be far too lengthy.  I recommend two criteria: Clarinetists who actually have a WP article (no redlinks!) and who are truly among the most notable.  Obviously the first of these is easily verified while the second is a judgement call.  Use your best judgement, and use discussion before adding or deleting if there are any doubts.
:One criterion that could be used (for the living clarinetists) is inclusion in Pamela Weston's "Clarinet Virtuosi of the Present". Currently, I am missing names and despite a lifelong interest in the clarinet and peripheral phenomena, I notice several names on the list I (but who am I?) have never heard of. Otherwise of course this remains largely arbitrary. brian stormen 11:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Criteria

message: Very nice template.  One suggestion:  the clarinets should probably be listed from high to low, not in alphabetical order.  I wouldn't think of ordering saxophones, for example, in alphabetical order; high to low is the most logical way to go.  Badagnani 19:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I dithered over that.  I decided on alphabetical but I'm not dogmatic about it -- I'll change it to size order one of these days, unless there are contrary opinions voiced first.   Thanks for the input.  -- Rsholmes 19:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: By size makes sense to me, as there's no real need for alphabetical in a case like this. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 20:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I prefer by size, but I would like to have "Clarinets by size" and "More clarinets" or something, because the instruments like Saxonette, Quarter tone Clarinet, and Basset Clarinet don't really fit in the ordering.  I went ahead with the proposed merge of the octobass clarinets to Sub-Contrabass clarinets (I chose the plural to acknowledge a category since there is no single instrument called a Sub-contrabass clarinet).  I really wanted to avoid the situation on the flute pages where there are a whole bunch of stubs for all the various flutes below bass--including lots of people's garage inventions--none of which add up to a full article  --Myke Cuthbert 22:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it'd be excessively fussy to have a separate line, especially since I don't think Basset clarinet ought to be split out from the rest.  They may not really fit the ordering, but I don't think one should confuse that with not belonging to the same category. -- Rsholmes 02:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order of sizes 

message: I've put the entry for Emma Johnson (musician) into proper alphabetical place, formatted it correctly, and disambiguated.  However, the other clarinetists in the template are there either because they are among the most famous, or they are among the most historically significant.  My feeling is that Johnson has neither sufficient fame nor sufficient significance, so far at least, to justify including her in the template, and I'm considering deletion.  Any comments? -- Rsholmes 02:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: good call. Agreed. --Myke Cuthbert 22:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Tend to agree. One criterion that could be used (at least for the living clarinetists) is inclusion in Pamela Weston's "Clarinet Virtuosi of the Present". Currently, I am missing names and despite a lifelong interest in the clarinet and peripheral phenomena, I notice several names on the list I (but who am I?) have never heard of. Otherwise of course this remains largely arbitrary. brian stormen 11:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emma Johnson 

message: I think the two sizes of subcontra should be given in the template instead of just "subcontra."  Badagnani 23:50, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, because there simply isn't enough information about each of them to warrant its own page.  Why don't we list Eb and D clarinets separately?  or Bb, A, and C?  Surely there is more independent information on literature for A and Bb clarinet as there is for Octocontralto versus Octocontrabass.
--Myke Cuthbert 01:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subcontra 

message: Could we get a variety of similar lighter/darker tones in the body of the template as well, the way the light purple ones do? Badagnani 09:29, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Colors

message: Is it appropriate to add Anthony McGill to the list?  He's playing at Obama's inauguration. TJRC (talk) 21:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: *OK, but: what "argument" are you referring to? TJRC (talk) 18:29, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

text: **The fact that he's performing at Obama's inauguration is notable but not enough IMHO to include him in the template (that would be more of a recognition for impportant lifetime achievements (influence, discography, following, pedagogic impact...) brian stormer (talk) 17:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

text: This inane argument is exactly why the list should not exist at all.   Cosprings (talk) 11:37, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthony McGill 

message: I just removed him from the template, since that's not what he's notable for. Otherwise, better add John Candy too...--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 23:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Woody Allen]] 

message: Regarding Cosprings' edits: before removing any of those names, and, especially, before removing all of them, we should make consensus at this talkpage.--Andrija (talk) 08:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not need consensus because the list so  obviously does not belong on an encyclopedia like wikipedia.   The saxophone template has no list of "the most notable" saxophonists.  Who is to do decide?   No on can decide who had the most influence, or notability, or whatever.   Same goes for the manufacturers.  This is why the article list of clarinetists and clarinet makers exist.  No way.  11:36, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It would seem there is no consensus about not needing consensus brian stormer (talk) 08:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  A short list with the most remarkable icons of clarinetistry is useful for people not familiar with the subject and improves the usability of Wikipedia.brian stormer (talk) 08:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names of clarinetists 

message: Today, the template has been added to more than 100 musicians' articles (so far), some of which deal with people who have also played clarinet, but not at all necessarily as their main intrument, e.g. Han Bennink, Peter Brötzmann ... For such articles, the non-collapsed template seems to me somewhat misleading, adding an inadequate weight to the mentioning of clarinet. Therefore, I would like to suggest that the template should by default be collapsed in an article, so that interested readers can expand it if wanted. Regards, BNutzer (talk) 14:57, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Normal hyperlinking on the word clarinet should be sufficient on most such musicians' biographical pages. If we begin adding templates for secondary instruments, then this could be the path to an over-weight of templates, to the detriment of article clarity and navigability. I would suggest that a template only belongs on a page where that page is directly referenced in the template, i.e. a link which will show as emphasised, and where there is a reasonable level of probability that the reader may want to navigate further utilising the template. Hence in this case each of the named Clarinetists, each of the Makers, but no other biographical articles? AllyD (talk) 18:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed yesterday that there is the Template:Clarinet in some clarinet-related articles, but not in all, so I decided to add it to all articles from the List of clarinetists. I must admit  that I did that without reading those articles or counting them. So, if "the template has been added to more than 100 musicians' articles (so far), some of which deal with people who have also played clarinet, but not at all necessarily as their main instrument", then, obviously, I exaggerated with my additions. I agree that it should be corrected, although I propose to leave the template in all articles about professional musicians whose primary - or the only one - instrument is clarinet, i.e. to leave it in all articles about classical clarinetists and in some articles about jazz clarinetists. --Andrija (talk) 23:27, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collapse by default?!