Talk:Hamilton Disston

message: Hi. I signed up to review this article. It's not often that I have a subject base to assess an article for content as well as style, but I chose this one because I do. I wrote Draining and development of the Everglades and found Disston an interesting character during my reading. I read through this article last night and would like to make suggestions to add more content, specifically the methods Disston used to drain rivers north of the Everglades and the reasons behind draining. In particular, land reclamation was a facet of Manifest Destiny as a national priority. To add content, you would need more sources. I am willing to email you PDF files from the Florida Historical Quarterly and JSTOR. If possible, I also suggest getting Voice of the River by Jack E. Davis. If you are willing to do this, email me so I can reply with the articles in an attachment. --Moni3 (talk) 12:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely, e-mail away.  (I can't guarantee how promptly I will dive in).  Do you mean the Marjory Stoneman Douglas book, Voice of the River?  I tried a search for "Disston" on Google Books but it showed nothing.  Maybe that's because it's a limited preview though.  Wknight94 talk 01:29, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to have your email address, so you have to mail me first so I can attach the files. I did mean the Douglas book. The author provides a lot of background about the state of the Everglades before Douglas got started in environmentalism, and there is a chapter on Disston. --Moni3 (talk) 12:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Oh, I'm such a doofus. Marjory Stoneman Douglas also covered Disston in her book Everglades: River of Grass. I meant the Jack E. Davis book An Everglades Providence. Sorry. --Moni3 (talk) 16:47, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. I have tried for the past 3 days to get the pdfs of two articles on JSTOR, but I keep getting an error message. They are: "Henry Disston's Model Industrial Community: Nineteenth-Century Paternalism in Tacony, Philadelphia" Harry C. Silcox, The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 114, No. 4 (Oct., 1990), pp. 483-515 and "On the Importance of Environmental Claims-Making: The Role of James O. Wright in Promoting the Drainage of Florida's Everglades in the Early Twentieth Century" Christopher F. Meindl, Derek H. Alderman, Peter Waylen Annals of the Association of American Geographers, Vol. 92, No. 4 (Dec., 2002), pp. 682-701. I have the second article that I might be able to fax to you. Thoughts? --Moni3 (talk) 15:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I'm glad I never got the ambition to include your information on the land details.  According to the GA review page, "Right now, it feels very WP:COATRACKy, with undue emphasis on the land details, and very little on the man's life."  So, sorry for wasting your time - this was a bad idea.  Wknight94 talk 01:21, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: All is not lost. Ealdgyth is an excellent reviewer. Since I'm no longer reviewing the article I can add some info and assist in the construction of the article. Let me take a look at my sources and see if I can help out tomorrow. --Moni3 (talk) 02:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm more than happy to hold the nom for a while. I'm also not demanding information that isn't available in the references, but it would be unusual for there not to be information on his schooling, even if only "He attended public school." If the information isn't available, mention of that fact should be made so that readers aren't wondering why expected information isn't mentioned. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pre GA review 

message: Forgive the chaos. I need to take some notes.
* Disston gave $17,000 of Xmas presents to employees in 1889.("People in General", The Washington Post, (December 28, 1889)
* Wash Post obit 3rd headline "Popular Employer of Labor" and :"probably no employer ever lived (in Tacony - or perhaps not, is unclear) who was better thought of by his employees". Tie in to Paternalism article.
* Expand issues on political involvement in Republican party. Supported candidates in Florida (CANDIDATES FOR OFFICE;  The Washington Post (1877. Mar 21, 1889. p. 2); opposed a federal election bill in 1890, nature of which is not stated in Wash Post article, but does state that Phildelphia had invested $8 million in Florida ("Dangers of the Force Bill", The Washington Post, July 16, 1890, p.4.)
* Check historical New York Herald no access
*Disston listed as Philadelphia resident from 1889 to 1896, frequently mentioned in society columns and announcements of who is in local hotels per Washington Post
* Disston had wife, brother, son at death; names not mentioned. They received $2.5 million ("Hamilton Disston's Insurance", The Washington Post", May 9, 1896, p. 1)
* Son's name was Henry. Got married same day he announced engagement in 1909, which has little to do with this article
* Chicago Tribune obit: "Peculiar in his ideas. His hand was always in his pocket and his influence always for his less successful fellow-men to whom he took a fancy". "hard, methodical worker" employed 3,000 people at his death. Was worth $5 million. "Leaves a million in life insurance", The Chicago Tribune (May 1, 1896), p. 6.
* Read this later, unrelated to this article: A swamp unswamped; Peril to Everglades Nathaniel Sheppard Jr. Chicago Tribune (1963-Current file). Chicago, Ill.: Oct 11, 1983. p. C12 (1 page)
* Sponsored an unknown number, perhaps 40 or 50, Russian Jewish families leaving Russia and settle in Pennsylvania. Gave them homes. Offer matched by Calvin Cowles of North Carolina who wanted settlers in NC. "Homes for Jewish Refugees", The New York Times (February 23, 1882), p. 2.
* NYT says Jacksonville industrial center of Florida, no visitors to state had much to see outside of St. Augustine or perhaps an overnight trip to Palatka, of all the godforsaken places (my POV, but I challenge anyone to find otherwise), after Disston's purchase, that expanded 250 miles to south. Disston was to try to reclaim 11 million acres described as "useless" by NYT, and was criticized by 30-year Jacksonville resident Engineer Koerner who said draining the land was not possible owing to the nature of the land and climate. Article mentions careful surveying by Disston's staff, regardless of Koerner's observations.  No illness associated with labor involved in drainage (opposing Grunwald's mention of the harrowing backbreaking labor per DDEverglades article). Sugarcane in Florida $125 an acre more profitable than in Louisiana $50 an acre, can be grown repeatedly due to lack of frost. "The Future of Florida", New York Times, (May 6, 1883), p. 3.
* An agent employed by Disston named A. B. Linderman assisted a Marshall P. Phillips, in contracts to purchase and drain the Okeefenokee Swamp, buying it at 12.5 cents and acre. "THE OKEFENOKEE SWAMP.; A PHILADELPHIA MAN PROPOSES TO BUY AND DRAIN IT." New York Times (Aug 4, 1889). p. 16.
* NYT mentions name of Disston's yacht as "Manatee" where while being entertained by Disston someone named Fessendon dislocated his hip. "MR. FESSENDEN SEVERELY INJURED", New York Times. Aug 9, 1889. p. 5
* Wrote an open letter to the editor in response to a Grand Rapids, MI hardware merchant company that accused Disston & Sons of raising their prices from 10 to 40% to state that their prices had decreased from 1882 to 1890 by 50%, and protested that the hardware company accused Disston and other manufacturers of not giving labor raises. Disston & Co. asserted that they had given labor an increase of 10% despite the decrease in price. Does not state the decrease in price is possible by more efficient manufacturing, but Paternalism article may allude to this in Henry's lifetime. "THE PRICE OF SAWS.; THE DISSTONS SAY THEY ARE MAKING ONLY A FAIR PROFIT." New York Times (Oct 7, 1890) . p. 9
* NYT obit mention's son Henry's name and two daughters, unnamed. 
* Known as "Ham" by friends, sorely lost by Philadelphia upon death. A major player in Republican conventions. Admitted as mechanic to saw firm in 1878. Began dabbling in local politics in 1876 and was frequently sought for his advice and endorsement, though he refused to run for office himself. Formed one of the "Big Four" industry bosses of Pennsylvania with James McManes (whom he had an acrimonious relationship with according to separate NYT article), William Leeds, and David Lane, and article intones (not sure) they controlled Philadelphia politics until the formation of the ward system in that city. Obit mentions he worked beside the "lowliest mechanics" in the saw shops; Paternalism article mentions he demonstrated the new bandsaw acquired by his father to show how to cut saw handles when the workers were afraid the bandsaw would snap and injure them. Most: "Hamilton Disston Dead: The Great Saw Manufacturer Passes Away Suddenly at His Home", The North American (Philadelphia, PA) Friday, May 01, 1896; pg. 5.
* School in Philadelphia named for him per searched of Philadelphia Inquirer that brought up only mentions of the name of the school.
* Father Henry's first wife named Amanda Bickley who died in childbirth in 1841, infant twins died a few hours after. Married Mary Steelman in 1843. Eight children together. Mary Ellen Wilson. "Disston, Henry"; http://www.anb.org/articles/10/10-00418.html; American National Biography Online Feb. 2000.
Done for now. Wknight, feel free to add info into article. --Moni3 (talk) 19:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, I humbly bow to your amazing fact-finding abilities.  I swear I really did do research for this article!  I just missed everything above.   Wknight94 talk 18:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wish I could say it was my talent. It's more like access to a very good library and its associated databases. The article has been promoted to GA, so congratulations. --Moni3 (talk) 18:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  No worries, Wknight, Moni can get to a REALLY good library, which makes a big difference in research. This article would be really neat at FAC after some more additions and digging, I urge you to work with Moni together and make it a joint nom! Ealdgyth - Talk 00:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collecting 

message: I have a question about this line, "until the ward system replaced them." From what I read what happened was that city government became more centralized under the mayor which was a political loss for the city's main political boss McManes allowing David Martin to take over as Philadelphia's political boss. No new system replaced an old one.  I wanted to check if that matched what the contributors here have read before I made any changes. Medvedenko (talk) 19:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was puzzled by this as well. I did some poking around to find that, as I stated on Philadelphia's talk page, that the ward system was established in 1854. The obituary stated that the Big Four "held sway over the political field until its dissolution in 1890 when the new 'ward combine' was formed with David Martin as its head". If you can provide more accurate wording, please do. --Moni3 (talk) 19:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty sure what "ward combine" means is a group who controls the wards. So in 1890 the Big Four "combine" was replaced by the Martin "combine". I changed the main article. Medvedenko (talk) 20:05, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ward system

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thread_title:  External links modified