Talk:Rudy Giuliani/Archive 1

message: To be clear on where I'm coming from: I do not like Rudy Giuliani, and I do not like his policing policies.  Having said that, I still think that this article may be unfair to him.  I do not have the statistics at my fingertips, but I am very much under the impression that the crime rate in NYC fell much more under Giuliani than did national rates -- so that his taking credit for reducing crime may not be as unwarranted as the article indicates.
I would personally say (remember, I don't like him) that reducing crime is not difficult, if you don't mind running roughshod over rights while doing it.  The problem is not that Guiliani didn't reduce crime -- the problem is that his methods were often too heavy handed and are not consistent with American values of freedom and limited government.  As the old saying goes: Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Does anyone have the stats for the nation as a whole, versus Giuliani's New York?
--Jimbo Wales
----
Okay, some quick googling. Figures attributed to the FBI have the national rate of violent crime falling, pretty steadily, from about 750 per 100,000 (it's a picture) in 1991 to 524.7 per 100,000 in 1999 (see http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/factfiles_detail.cfm?issue_type=crime&list=1).  Similarly from the National Center for Policy Analysis, a paper published in 1997: http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s209/s209.html states that "Every category of violent crime has decreased since 1993."
The point various New Yorkers, including some newspaper columnists, have made is that they didn't have to ride roughshod over our rights: Boston got equally good results without doing so. (And Mussolini didn't make the trains run on time.) 
(Very tangentially, it'll be interesting to see how they massage the figures for 2001: on the one hand, the WTC deaths weren't the result of anything done locally, but on the other they undeniably were murders committed in New York City.) --Vicki Rosenzweig
Crime has already increased in NYC since 9/11. The official explanation is that the continued police presence at "ground zero" and the large number of police monitoring traffic in and out of Manhattan is the reason that crime has increased. There is actually 
some validity to this, as I see it. --RoseParks
Google for "Rudolph Giuliani": 76,700, for "Rudy Giuliani" 52,400. Which is the best form? --G
*I'm not sure how long ago or under what circumstances 'G' did his search, but I got:
**"Rudy Giuliani" 256,000
**"Rudolph Giuliani" 198,000
Definitely stick with Rudy.--Pharos 08:14, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: do the criminology somewhere else. This article is about Rudi and NOT about various demographic theories of crime in 1990s. Rjensen 06:07, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Drop in crime rate 

message: I don't think the information about Rosario belongs on this page. I do see that it is related, so I lined to it under "See also." I'm also having a hard time substantiating the claims. Are there articles in NYT I can look to? I have access to all listings and am willing to go look them up. Just tell me the page number. I'm asking not because i don't believe it is true, but I'm not sure this is the right place to post information that is novel and not well agreed upon (that's not what an encyclopedia is). Pdbailey 23:05, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rosario 

message: I removed,
:" - Although he later said he was trying to make the point that it was John Kerry blaming the troops."
writen after,
: In response to the lost explosives in the Al Qa'qaa high explosives controversy "No matter how you try to blame it on the president, the actual responsibility for it really would be for the troops that were there"
There is no way to reconcile this obvious back-pedal after negative press reaction. Pdbailey 16:43, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: He said something and then later said that someone else said it. It's just a lie, there is nothing else to it. I mean you could argue that if John Kerry had blamed the troops that that could be concieved of as blaming the President, but it doesn't work the other way around. The troops follow orders that the President is ultimately responsible for, not the other way around. That said, the present version is fine. Pdbailey 23:35, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Backpedaling 

message: removed
:Although mayors dont usually get national attention or get considered for president, as Mayor of New York (a city with a larger population and larger budget than many states), he has.
I think the author 172.148.184.221 must not have realized that the mayor of NYC always gets loads of press coverage. He is, afterall, the most obvious politician in a city where every major TV network is headquartered as well as the home of the New York Times. Bloomberg also gets tons of national coverage. To a lesser extent, so does the mayors of Chicago and LA (think if you know the name of a mayor of Chicago... I'd be okay with some comment about how he, like others, got lots of press coverage but that is sort of a silly thing to write down. Pdbailey 00:58, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  press coverage 

message: He promised New Yorkers that if he is elected as the mayor, he will crackdown on not non-fat yogurt liars.
:I saw that one to. I think it was on WNYS.--Jerryseinfeld 00:00, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  View on issues/Platform 

message: Should KBE be placed next to the name at the top of the article considering his honorary knighthood, even if Giuliani doesn't make much fuss about the title? It really is part of his full name, just like having MBE put after a name. --Harro5 08:29, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
...and shouldn't Sir Rudy Giuliani, KBE  be given the same heading as Sir Rudolph Bing, KBE? --Wetman 03:35, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, so no "Sir", but what about the KBE suffix? Cohen the Bavarian 13:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is absolutely not part of his name---American politicians never use KBE as part of their name or ID, Rjensen 08:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Knighthood 

message: The correct spelling of the name of the current governor of New York state is "Pataki".  See http://www.state.ny.us/governor/. Kelly Martin 18:38, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
Ratboy, who the hell is Alan Chartlock (and why should we care), and which political pundit is predicting Rudy will run for governor?  They all predict he will not, so this is not an Alan Chartlock exclusive. patsw 14:08, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pataki and Rudy running for Governor of New York in 2006 

message: Can anyone expand on (add) the part about moving the mistress into the Governors mansion? I'm not trying to make a POV article or judgement here but that fiasco is totally left out. Politicians get off easy sometimes here on Wikipedia. JoeHenzi 00:55, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wives 

message: "entitling him to add the post-nominal KBE after his name."
I hesitate to just change this without providing a reason, as somebody will just change it back but, as 'post-nominal' means 'after name', this is tautalogical. I'd suggest just cutting it down to "entitling him to add the post-nominal KBE" unless anyone else has a problem with that? Mullet 21:29, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's also a bit beside the point. The honor is the knighthood, not the right to use the initials. The pertinent point is that he was made an honorary Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire: the postnominal is an epiphenomenon of that honor. - F. X. Leyendecker 21:40, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tautology 

message: Isn't this a stealth POV presentation on the right to abortion?  "Reproductive rights" is a euphemism for abortion, isn't it? patsw 14:39, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Reproductive rights are about a persons right to control their reporoduction. It also carries less negative connotations. IreverentReverend 21:13, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What aspect of "reproductive rights" is controversial in the context of the opposition to Rudy's nomination as presidential candidate in 2008 other than abortion? It is a euphemism for abortion. patsw 00:34, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The term "reproductive rights" is used only by those who support abortion.  Those who support abortion and those who are opposed to it use the word "abortion".  The very use of the word "rights" implies that there is a right to abortion.  Obviously the Wikipedia talk pages are not meant for discussion on whether or not there is such a right, but it is generally agreed that a lot of people do not think there is a right to abortion.  The word "abortion" is therefore more neutral, as it can be used by people on both sides.  Ann Heneghan 06:51, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: While "reproductive rights" encompasses other subjects like access to birth control, it is generally used by the pro-choice lobby in place of "abortion."  This is because it sounds better, but mostly because this way they can say that a pro-life person is against "reproductive rights," and make it sound like they are against not only abortion, but also access to birth control pills, condoms, etc (even though this may not be the case).  It's actually a very underhanded way to distort the perception of the uninitiated.  Jrkarp 20:33, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Underhanded?"  Hardly.  Many of the politicians who are against abortion are also against access to birth control pills and condoms, and for the very same reasons.  It is perfectly legitimate to include the two issues together, since for people on both sides they are shades of the same thing.    --Chancemichaels 14:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Reproductive Rights" 

message: I would like to see a full section or sub-section dedicated to Giuliani's behaviour on the day of 9/11, as this is what made him Man of the Year, KBE, etc. and most importantly the best-loved politician in America, preferably with a comparison between what he did and what was perceived (i.e. media coverage).
I would also like to see more than a succint paragraph on his family history, especially considering that his divorce and remarriage, on top of being unusual in U.S. politics, are believed by many to be an obstacle his seeking the Republican nomination for the presidency, since the Christian right would only back a wholesome family man.
LeoDV 05:51, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request input 

message: Current:
:Giuliani turned down the offer and instead recommended former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik.  That move backfired after Kerik withdrew his nomination after it was revealed he had hired an illegal immigrant as a nanny and failed to pay the employer's taxes on her wages; he also failed to report that a judge ordered his arrest in a civil dispute. Later, it was also revealed that Kerik, a married man, had two mistresses, at one point simultaneously; even using an appartment donated to NYPD near the World Trace Center complex in the fall of 2001 to "entertain" them. He is also rumored to have mob ties, although those are unproven.
My version:
:Giuliani turned down the offer and instead recommended his friend and former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik.  Kerik in his pre-announcement interviews with the White House failed to disclose facts in his past which were certain to disqualify him.  After the formal announcement of Kerik's nomination, information known for years to local reporters, but unreported, became widely known.  The political fallout was damage to the perception of competence in the White House vetting process and doubts on the political judgment of Giuliani for recommending Kerik in the first place. 
Of course "Trace" should be "Trade" but the current version is full of facts, but what Kerik did is unimportant relative to the impact on Rudy in when and how it was disclosed. patsw 15:28, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this the [[Bernard Kerik]] article or the [[Rudy Giuliani]] article? 

message: This isn't patsw's point of view:  It is in the contemporary reporting of the incident and in the published biographies.  It has never been disputed, as far as I know.  He threatened is accurate and anything less is inaccurate. patsw 02:16, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: He threatened (to run again for a full four term and test the constitutionality of term limits)

message: The info deleted by anon has been restored.
If you believe it to be inaccurate or could be better written now, correct it, don't delete it. patsw 14:29, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  2006 info 

message: A lot of material was deleted from the article starting February 5, 2006.  Since there was no discussion here and some of the detail was added by me to provide verification of the material in the first place, I am concerned.  I'm not going to massively revert but I'd like to see here a justificiation, for example, from removing the description of the offensive art which was past of the Brooklyn Museum opposition, and the other deletions. patsw 15:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletions since February, 5, 2006 

message: I examined the web site of the Trilateral Commission
and failed to find a mention of the membership of Rudy Giuliani there
and a google search likewise failed. The deletion of the claim he is a member is justified and will be deleted until it is verified. patsw 02:15, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trilateral Commission 

message: Please allow a link to the patient and doctor authored prostate cancer website, http://www.malecare.com , the information website of the eight year old national nonprofit, Malecare . Mr. Giuliani is a major source of inspiration and hope to many newly diagnosed prostate cancer patients, world wide. The Malecare website is updated weekly and is a trusted source of information for new patients, worldwide. An "external link" to the Malecare prostate cancer website is certainly in keeping with Rudy Giuliani's spirit of increasing access to healthcare for all  people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.134.92.141 (talk • contribs)  01:16, 10 March 2006   (UTC)
:The Giuliani article links to the Prostate cancer article.  The latter article is the appropriate place for any external link that relates to prostate cancer in general.  External links here should be limited to those that provide more information about Giuliani specifically.  (I haven't looked at the site you mention so I express no opinion as to whether it's an appropriate ext link at the Prostate cancer article.)  Adding the link elsewhere may be in keeping with Giuliani's spirit but it's not in keeping with Wikipedia's policies.  JamesMLane t c 11:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prostate Cancer 

message: I added the POV tag to the section on crime control.  The section as it is now is focused on talking about why Giuliani shouldn't get credit for the drop in crime, instead of talking about the drop (including facts, examples, and statistics), what proponents say, and what opponents say. Jrkarp 20:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: If you want to make that point that the consensus of pundits are wrong and that Rudy will do well in the 2008 presidential primaries:
* because the Republican voters in these states are not actually pro-life
* or because the Republican voters in these states are pro-life, but don't care that Rudy opposes restrictions on partial-birth abortion, for example.
Please cite the polls and integrate it the section already in the article refuting Rudy's weakness attributed to his pro-choice position.
Regarding "may be an obstacle", it certainly is an obstacle -- the problem is for Rudy to overcome the obstacle. patsw 05:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rudy 2008 and the abortion question 

message: I created this petition and would like to add it to the Giuliani article.  I don't think it should be deleted by the administrators.  
* Petition to Pope Benedict to excommunicate Rudy Giuliani and withdraw the papal nuncio from Washington D.C. 
Pistolpierre 22:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless this is truly noteworthy I don't think this should be included in the article. By this user's own admission there has been no press coverage of this, and wishes there to be. This is a backward approach to this encyclopedia. First something is noteworthy and has been shown to be noteworthy, using reliable sources. Then it is included in the encyclopedia. Not the other way around. Mak (talk) 00:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  petition to Pope Benedict to excommunicate or deny Rudy communion 

message: I think the quotes at the end of the article should be moved over to wikiquotes.  Deputydog23 15:59, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes Section 

message: Giuliani married his second cousin--why does this keep getting removed? Seems like those opposed are guilty of a pov issue. Giuliani married his second cousin, I included it in the intro as part of hi relationship history. It was important to him when he got the divorce. Menkatopia 07:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just want to ad, while I am not one of them, there are thos who are quite proud of this fact and se Giuliani as a kind of role model. Menkatopia 07:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think this fact needs a citation--it is stated on the WP cousin couple page with no additional information, or citation. Of course it is offensive to some people, but is a fact and should not be repeatedly eliminated because of someone's POV. 24.116.209.57 00:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second Cousin 

message: The presidential campaign section contains lots of speculation and OR about his campaign prospects.  WP is not a crystal ball.  Editing.  Kaisershatner 21:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OR 

message: My question is not directly related to the article, but of interest to me nonetheless: I was wondering if Mr. Giuliani still resides in the NYC area or has he relocated? Regards, 199.29.6.2 19:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does he still reside in NYC? 

message: I added some information about the 2003 made-for-tv movie since I think it deserved to be metioned somewhere in the article.204.80.61.10 19:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added Tv movie info 

message: I added a bit about his serving on a jury, but I can't find any information about how that suit was resolved. Anyone know? Stilgar135 21:25, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jury foreman 

message: Validation of article performed by WIKICHECK. August 17 2006 12:10pm. WikiCheck 12:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikicheck 

message: I still think the article needs more condensing, to make room for other quite notable issues that are currently being omitted (like the WTC location controversy).  Any thoughts about merging the "Time person of the year" section into the "America's mayor" section?  Both paragraphs have very similar purposes. Pro crast in a tor 23:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More consolidation 

message: I don't think this material is notable:
::He had an 85 average there, graduated 130th out of 378 students in his class, and received SAT scores of 569 verbal and 504 math. http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0028,barrett,16371,1.html
Ufwuct 17:40, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think GPA or where he graduated are appropriate, but this seems too detailed to me, too.  Perhaps just "He was a B student, graduating in the top 1/3 of his class"?  The SAT scores are almost useless since the scoring system has changed over the past 30 years.  Pro crast in a tor 04:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not meaningless.  569/504 are mediocre scores in any era of the SAT.  Wasted Time R 05:13, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, meaningless, because he's not known for his academic achievements, nor has he (or anybody else) made any claims about them that need to be supported or refuted. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 05:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Those numerators are only useful if provided with the denominator.  A 569/569 would be a perfect score, for someone who took the test thirty-odd years ago, what were the top possible scores?Steven (talk) 18:54, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  SAT scores 

message: Has anyone else noticed that he has a resemblance to this cartoon character?
--64.238.49.65 (talk) 23:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Look Alikes 

message: Due to his high profile and visibility Giuliani was supported by the state Republican Party, even though he had irritated many by endorsing incumbent Democrat Governor Mario Cuomo over Republican George Pataki in 1994.[53]
 
The National Review isn't really a reliable source.  Unfairly discrediting him?  He was supported only because of his high profile?  This is not very encyclopedic. MD12752 04:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Show it to me 

message: Giuliani curtailed services to the indigent by setting a limit of 90 days for homeless individuals' stays in shelters, leading opponent Dinkins to accuse him of punishing the children of the homeless.
In an attempt to change the character of the Times Square area, his administration forced out businesses such as peep shows, game parlors and souvenir shops, filling it with more chain stores, including the MTV studios and a massive Virgin Megastore and theater. 
In this section I see two sentences of unsourced statements containing weasel words and thinly veiled criticisms. Is this section needed? Clamster 02:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thinly veiled criticism permeates the whole article.  Take it out and you won't have much left.  Wasted Time R 02:43, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section: "Cleaning up" the city 

message: Seem to be totally missing for this dude. How come? Zaphraud 05:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Height and other vital stats 

message: Wait a minute. Rudy Giuliani does support any other union for gay people except the marriage.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.174.138.228 (talk) 02:52, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Giuliani and LGBT unions 

message: I'm examining the crime data found here[] out of curiosity. The national data are available from the given source[], but I can't seem find the individual city data.  The FBI has years of crime data available, but they do not provide the city points, only the national ones. I'd presumably find the 1995 New York City statistics under "Crime in the Unites States" and Table VI, but a search for "New York City" in the 1995 PDF[], for example, yields nothing. From what I can see, the individual city statistics in Table VI relate to the number of law enforcement personnel and not to crime rates. Can someone please explain where the city statistics are to be found?
Thanks. Aristotle1990 03:00, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crime data 

message: It is well known among statisticians that all major cities saw a reduction in violent crime as shown in the graph.  The reason (which police departments will argue is not true) is the effect of legalizing abortion; there simply were less potential criminals.
You can obtain any crime statistics you need by writing to the FBI to request it.  The FBI will then send you the paper reports.  Too bad the FBI doesn't send out a PDF but they probably don't want this information being passed around easily.
Also see http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/ for summary information by State and Local Agency.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.128.80.244 (talk) 16:12, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crime Data and National Trends 

message: I read the laudatory Mitt Romney page and then this one.  This one looks like a thinly disguised hatchet job to me.  
Everything he accomplished--busting up the mob, reducing crime, cutting taxes, inspiring leadership after 9/11 is listed, then followed by a whole paragraph of criticism of his behavior.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.83.146.244 (talk) 02:31, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are quite correct.  The Giuliani articles have been dominated by Giuliani-haters for some time now.  Wasted Time R 04:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Everybody's free to edit. Add what you think is appropriate and delete what you think is unnecessary, but keep in mind that Wikipedia articles should be neither "laudatory" nor "hatchet jobs". — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 04:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Negative Tone 

message: Does anyone know where in Italy Giuliani's family comes from?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.173.8 (talk) 04:49, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Genoa is referenced in one speech he gave.(no link, memory)  Both side came from Italy, though.  I also think he has some southern Italian, too.  Jmegill 01:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italian Ancestry 

message: I would like to respectfully point out a few items in the Guiliani article that betray the fact that the writer(s) don't like him.  It's a free country and that is their personal right, but I'd like to see Wikipedia maintain a level of detached neutrality and remain as apolitical as possible. 
Mayoralty/Law Enforcement section--the article asserts that one of the reasons crime fell during his tenure as mayor was overall improvement in the economy--this is the old "poverty causes crime" axiom that is a faith tenet of religious leftism--there is no empirical evidence to support it--per capita crime is much higher now, in far better economic times, than during the depression.  The assertion by the writer cannot be factually based, or the writer needs to cite a source to prove it. 
9/11 attacks/public reaction--the article states that the mayor "profited" from the "tragedy" by making money from speaking engagements.  The same charge, then, could be leveled against everyone in history who ever became known for their leadership during a crisis.  Oprah's ratings no doubt went up while she was discussing the attacks, so it could also be said she profited from tragedy.  Anyone who ever published a memoir about their leadership during war profited from the "tragedy" of war.  What the writer is really saying is "I hate Rudy," & that's fine, but let's keep this thing neutral.
Political positions--the article suggests that Guiliani has flip-flopped on partial-birth abortion by recently approving the Sup.Ct ruling--all this ruling in fact established is that the issue is subject to vote, as opposed to the left's position that that type of abortion should be mandated to be legal everywhere, regardless if 51, 70, or 99% of the public votes that it should be illegal-hence there is no contradiction, though the writer clearly wishes to see one.
Ernhope 19:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:   Wasted Time R 03:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

text: The Giuliani articles have had problems with skewed, anti-Giuliani editors, but I don't think they come from other campaigns, rather they are from the Village Voice/Wayne Barrett school of Giuliani hating.  Wasted Time R 13:02, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's not overlook the school of Giuliani whitewashing -- the editors who, for example, sanitized the article of any mention of the Louima/Diallo/Dorismund cases or of the legal troubles of Giuliani appointees.  The simple fact is that articles of prominent candidates are constant battlegrounds.  So it was in 2004, so it shall be again this year. JamesMLane t c 14:22, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I agree.  Indeed, Rudy Giuliani presidential campaign, 2008 currently seems to have some sanitizing forces at play.  Wasted Time R 14:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  a few challenges to the article's neutrality 

message: The author states that 
"[Rudy's daughter] Caroline apparently linked her personal Facebook page to the campaign of Democratic presidential candidate, Senator Barack Obama."  (Emphasis is mine.)
That is not, in fact, true.  The author cites Slate.com as the source.  However, Slate has an accompanying picture of Caroline's Facebook page.  This picture clearly shows that the site she linked to was a message board/Facebook group called "One Million Strong for Obama".  She did NOT link to the Obama campaign.
Here is the site of the picture.
http://www.slate.com/id/2171738/
192.216.142.51 (talk) 20:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed it to "... to a page related to the campaign of ...", which should cover both cases.  Wasted Time R 12:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  An error in the article 

message: Why is there no mention about this? Are you trying to supress minorities with this virulent discrimination? -Lapinmies 12:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Mayoralty_of_Rudy_Giuliani#Drag_appearances.  A nice description of each of his drag appearances, including an image of the one with Trump that you so much want to see.  Wasted Time R 13:59, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rudy in DRAG with TRUMP! 

message: The positions section is lousy.  All it mentions are his positions on social issues.  I'm quite certain there are statements by giuliani to list positions on energy policy, taxes, immigration, war on terror, etc.  I would add an energy policy section with a reference, but of course the page is protected.  I believe the position section to be the most important section for each candidate and should be fully updated for each candidate.  Anyhow - if someone cares to use it - my reference is a permalink on CNBC:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22028499
On Energy policy, Giuliani believes we should do everything possible, "that means clean coal, carbon sequestration, that means nuclear power, it means hybrid vehicles, it means wind, solar and hydroelectric. It means more refineries, it means more domestic oil, it means ANWR, it means natural gas, liquid natural gas."  Giuliani favors increased use of Nuclear power by streamlining the process to build new plants.  He believes that we need to use tax credits to help the coal industry.
Giuliani also does not favor reducing the capital gains tax even though speculators routinely get away with paying a 15% tax on millions of dollars of income, because he sees increased competition from London and Tokyo threatening New York's status as financial capital of the world.
Rudy Guliani, also believes that the corporate income tax should be lowered as it is now higher than most other Western Economies.
Giuliani does not favor tariffs, and is generally a free trader.
:See, and edit if desired, Political positions of Rudy Giuliani.  Wasted Time R 18:23, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Political Positions section was still lousy, so I cleaned it up. It also seemed NPOV to choose abortion and gay rights as the only two issues to mention on this page, so I removed them. They are covered on the Political_positions_of_Rudy_Giuliani page.Paisan30 (talk) 00:55, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Moreover, the history of his party affiliation switches didn't belong here either; it's basic biographical info that intertwines with his job history of the time, so I moved it into the appropriate mainline sections.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Positions 

message: It is correctly spelled as 'Giuliani'
Personal Life > Religion > 2nd Sentence (Guiliani)
September 11 > Aftermath > 2 Par > 1st Sentence (Giuiliani)
Mayoral Campaigns > 1989 Defeat > 3rd Par > Last Sentence (Giulani)
I would change them if I could, but I can't. --Chipmunker (talk) 18:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.  Wasted Time R (talk) 19:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

text: No, "at risk" is correct; you're thinking of "as risky".  Wasted Time R (talk) 11:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling Errors 

message: Anyone seen the fuss over Giuliani's racist campaign add? It states 'a people perverted' in refrence to all muslims, not to mention one of Rudy's subodinates told Muslims to 'get back into their caves'. The video is on youtube but I got it off the islamophobia watch site, a POV site I know, but as it directly quiotes it is reliable.86.138.116.141 (talk) 16:56, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Campaign article, if anywhere.  Wasted Time R (talk) 17:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Campaign add 

message: Rudy Giuliani was featured in a Reader's Digest article this past December.  I'd like to propose that a link to this article be added under the "Media Coverage" heading of the External Links section.  
http://www.rd.com/content/the-contenders-2008--rudy-giuliani/
What are everyone's thoughts?
TraceyLynn (talk) 14:56, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  The External links section is already too large and out of compliance with WP:EL, and most or all of that "Media coverage" subsection should be removed.  Wasted Time R (talk) 00:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Media Coverage 

message: "Giuliani was praised by some for his close involvement with the rescue and recovery efforts, but others, including some firefighters, police, rescue workers, and families of WTC victims argue that "Giuliani has exaggerated the role he played after the terrorist attacks, casting himself as a hero for political gain."[115] Giuliani has also profited personally from the tragedy, collecting $11.4 million from speaking fees in a single year."
I don't think this is well worded. To me it sounds unnecessarily accusatory, to say that Giuliani personally profited from the tragedy. He didn't profit from the tragedy- he profited from giving speeches. Whether or not those speeches even have some kind of link to 9/11 isn't relevant. If he is giving speeches, he's going to talk about 9/11 because it's what people want to hear. 
There seems to be a lot of anti-Giuliani toned stuff in this article. It has a bad gist. Let me know if I can help.
--Chopin-Ate-Liszt! (talk) 11:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct about the tone of the article.  It used to be the subject of heavy edit wars and a nexus of anti-Giuliani editors.  But now that his presidential campaign has spectacularly fizzled out, nobody pays this article much attention.  Go ahead and make changes as you see fit.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:42, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like a simple factual statement, albeit one worded a bit inappropriately. It is hard to argue that Rudy hasn't profited tremendously both politically and financially from his high media exposure following the attack. We'll see how his earning power does following his humiliation and withdrawal from the 2008 race in a couple of weeks.Veritas23 (talk) 01:17, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is kind of like saying FDR profited politically from the Great Depression and World War II.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all...FDR saved the country from the Great Depression, maneuvered us into WWII, won that war and put the US into the position of global top dog for the next fifty years...and accrued no personal benefit from his genuine leadership while alive....only the gratitude of the nation following his all too early death. Rudy merely temporarily deviated from the nasty and divisive behavior for which we knew him well and acted human for a few weeks while the media of the world focused on him intensely. Since the attack he has tried to sell himself to a country not previously familiar with him - selling himself almost entirely on claims that he 1) "cleaned up NY" and 2) did something undefinable but unbelievably heroic during the attack. I would argue that the former claim is demonstrably spurious, but certainly it is a claim on which reasonable people can disagree. The latter claim however, is simply fantastic - as ludicrous as it is deliberately vague and aggressively promoted by Rudy. Had New York City not been attack in September of 2001 Rudy would have left office with opinion polls running 2-1 against him and would never had acquired the wealth or (now squandered) political capital he did. However, in the end, once America got to know the Rudy Giuliani we here in New York knew all too well, the myth was shown for what it was...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Veritas23 (talk • contribs) 02:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Chopin-Ate-Liszt!, now you can see the mindset of the main editors of this article.  My point about FDR was that had he lived slightly earlier and been elected president in 1920 not 1932, it's highly unlikely that he would be considered one of the greatest presidents (as there would have been nothing severe enough to test him) and certain that he wouldn't have gotten third and fourth terms.  Both his power at the time, and his reputation since, benefited from his being historically coincident with tragedy and suffering.  That's the way it goes.  Wasted Time R (talk) 04:18, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good point, but you cannot deny that Giuliani profited financially from his public persona in response to the 9/11 attacks. His speaking tour(s) netted him millions. FDR certainly didn't profit personally, financially, from the Great Depression. It's appropriate to note the financial profit that Giuliani realized as a result of the tragedy, but the fact needs to be worded carefully in order not to make him out to be a profiteer from the terrorist act.--HughGRex (talk) 10:56, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possibly biased statement 

message: I find the first sentence in the "Run for United States Senate, 2000" section to be misleading due to the dates. It states: "Due to term limits Giuliani could not run for a third term as Mayor" and the next sentence begins with "In November 1998..." - that confused me, because I immediately thought it implied that his term was up in November 1998. And what about 2000? Was his term up in 2000? - that's when the senate race was. The next section is about the 9/11 attacks, which occurred during his mayoral tenure. Does anyone see where I'm coming from? The sentence is misleading and confusing to say the least, and I feel it either needds to be rephrased or removed entirely. Happyme22 (talk) 00:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tried to clarify it, see what you think.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Much better. Thanks. Happyme22 (talk) 01:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading sentence 

message: It still says that Rudy is seeking nomination for 2008 Presidential election  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.183.221.158 (talk) 18:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please edit the first paragraph 

message: Readers looking for articles about Rudy's mayorality, etc., are likely to come first to the main article. In the interest of facilitating users navigation between the main article and the campaign and positions subarticles I've improved WP by adding a nav box directly under the infobox. --Justmeherenow (talk) 04:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  An addition of a navigation box to subarticles, directly below infoboxes 

message: :It looks like Noroton has identified a number of examples of inappropriate POV/Soapboxing in articles about other people. Some of them really are quite egregious. He would do Wikipedia a great service to remove (or at least heavily trim) those digressions into third persons that partisans put into other politician articles. If Noroton does not get to it, I might make an effort myself to clean some of that up (obviously though, as we've seen here, cleaning up to encyclopedic standards can often meet great resistance from anti-Bio-Subject partisans). Unfortunately, I can't personally improve millions of articles at once, probably not even dozens where the subjects are living persons of high general interst. LotLE×talk 06:16, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Equal treatment in candidate biography articles 

message: I wanted to know what there was to the strange way the man speaks so I looked here.  Nothing.  Apparently, he has  a lateral lisp.  I wanted to put this in the article, but can't seem to find the right place.  Any suggestions?--Loodog (talk) 04:32, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd guess a sentence or short paragraph in the Early life and education section might be appropriate, with a brief mention and source citation. —Adavidb 04:45, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't agree with that.  It isn't that noticeable, or remarked upon, or important; it hasn't hindered his life or career.  Lots of people don't speak the way diction teachers would have them, it isn't a big enough deal to warrant its own paragraph right near the top of our article.  I've removed it.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's being at the top is simply a matter of the way the article is arranged.  It's not in the lead, so how is it too prominent?  Where do you think would be more appropriate in the article?  It is notable, and remarked upon, for example, in the source you removed.  "If he's elected, he will be our first President with a lisp."--Loodog (talk) 04:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Most blogs are not acceptable for citation as sources on Wikipedia.—ADavidB 10:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The New Yorker is not a blog.--Loodog (talk) 14:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The "source" link provided above is a blog. —ADavidB 23:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It also appears in the New Yorker, which meets WP:RS.--Loodog (talk) 06:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lateral lisp 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "nyt101997" :
** 
** Barry Bearak/Ian Fisher, "RACE FOR CITY HALL: The Republican Candidate; A Mercurial Mayor's Confident Journey", The New York Times, October 19, 1997. Accessed May 16, 2007.
DumZiBoT (talk) 05:13, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Corrected. —Adavidb 05:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: Is he now cancer-free? If so, he should be added to the cancer survivors category. Werdnawerdna (talk) 14:31, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a keyn aynhoreh.   Wasted Time R (talk) 04:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prostate cancer 

message: I've done an edit run through much of the article to fix up problems that occurred from the original text being written in 2007 during the presidential campaign.  Some material was repetitive beyond reason, or was stated in a political context that no longer exists, or was slanted or distorted to make a political point at the time, or was overly specific in terms of giving precise dates and publications in the main text.  I've given specific reasons for each of the changes on its edit summary.  I ran out of steam before I could give much attention to the 9/11 sections, though.
In any event, this article is still mediocre at best; it couldn't come close to GA status in its current shape.  I'm kind of embarrassed to see from stats that I'm the #1 editor on it.  Hopefully some other editors will give it some positive attention.  If he does run for gov, it will soon get all the wrong kind of attention.... Wasted Time R (talk) 03:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit run for post-presidential-election perspective 

message: Notice how Obama, Bush, McCain, etc have their own early life articles, Rudy def deserves on. This article is way too long to begin with.--Levineps (talk) 03:45, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  seperate early life and/or legal career article for Rudy 

message: The parts regarding his enforcement of law and "cleaning up NY" seem very biased. I will read more and try to edit out some of this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.231.244 (talk) 07:24, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article seems extremely biased.. 

message: http://www.gedview.com/giuliani/pedigree.php?rootid=I1
Look at this link above. I googled Rudolph Giuliani genealogy search and I found this. I figured this would be an interesting tid bit of information.
At first, I questioned if there actually was a Brooklyn, in Upstate New York, but I've found several sources that prove it to be so, one in which was already on Wikipedia. I'll provide the resources to show this place exists though, because I know they'll be a couple people out there who may just think that person got the information confused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Otto,_New_York#Communities_and_locations_in_East_Otto
Here is that Wikipedia link.
Brooklyn -- A hamlet on Route 12 in the north-central part of the town, and north of Otto village.
http://www.brooklyn.net/other_bklyns/other_bklyns_02.html
http://www.roadsidethoughts.com/ny/brooklyn-xx-cattaraugus-nearby.htm
Brooklyn is located in Cattaraugus County.
This is a map of where it actually is, along with some other useful information. It says there's a population of 1,069, sourced by the U.S. Census. What should be noted though is that this place is technically not it's own town, but is more of a neighborhood, or division of a town, which is why the Census hasn't that specific of information on Brooklyn, Cattaraugus, New York.
http://www.roadsidethoughts.com/ny/brooklyn-xx-cattaraugus-census.htm
Here is the Census tab.
So I'll be interesting the following quote below, following this quote, in the early life tab:
Rudolph Giuliani was born in the New York City borough of Brooklyn, the only child of working-class parents Harold Angelo Giuliani and Helen C. D'Avanzo, both children of Italian immigrants.[5]  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.230.11 (talk) 00:48, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that initial source is not what would be considered a reliable source, and the information does not appear to be correct.  On page 18 of Rudy by Wayne Barrett, for example, it is quite clear that the D'Avanzos were married and lived in the NYC borough of Brooklyn, where they raised their seven children, including Helen.  Tvoz/talk 03:29, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  [edit conflict] Please read Wikipedia:Reliable sources - we don't allow original research here, so we'd not be looking for a copy of her birth certificate. What we need are third party sources - journalists or writers who do research and confirm their claims with multiple sourcing and publish in books or publications with editorial oversight. The website you provided has no sourcing or indication of where its information comes from, and this is likely just an error. Since a reliable source (the book I listed above) tells us that the parents were married in Brooklyn NYC, owned a house there, and raised their seven children there, it is not credible that Helen was coincidentally born in a small place upstate named Brooklyn rather than the much more likely Brooklyn NYC. But note that we don't make any claim as to her birthplace in the article - without a reliable, explicit source for it, we're better off not stating it. No one said anything about lying - the genealogy chart appears to be mistaken. However, if you find other reliable sources for this, please share them here - but please don't add it to the article until we can confirm this anomalous and not credible claim. Tvoz/talk 04:38, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is a link to the Barrett book -  - scroll down to pages 18-19.  As I said, the book says that Adelina and Luigi D'Avanzo, Rudy's maternal grandparents, were   Italian immigrants - Adelina grew up in Brooklyn (NYC); when they married they lived on Jackson Street in Brooklyn, where they raised their seven children including Helen, Rudy's mother. There is absolutely nothing there about a sojourn to an upstate NY town named Brooklyn, and it's frankly an absurd suggestion.  No, as I said, that book does not explicitly state where she was born, and that is why our article does not explicity state where she was born.  But the genealogy chart is not a definitive source and is likely in error. Tvoz/talk 04:53, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  And finally, here is her obituary from the New York Times which says she was born in Brooklyn.  I can assure you that when a New York City newspaper says "Brooklyn" they quite certainly mean the borough across the river, not an obscure upstate town. Tvoz/talk 05:21, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

text: 72.73.230.11, your long rants against the New York Times and other Wikipedia articles are irrelevant.  As Tvoz said, the Rudy Giuliani article doesn't say where his mother was born nor does it need to.  But if it were to, the New York Times obit that says she was born in Brooklyn (and yes it obviously means the Brooklyn in New York City, it's a New York City newspaper) is a reliable source by the definitions of WP:RS and WP:V and could be used in this Wikipedia article.  The website gedview.com is nothing more than a hosting site where anybody can upload anything about their own families or other peoples' families.  It is not a professional genealogy site writing about a famous person's ancestors (like this NEHGS article about Hillary Rodham Clinton for example).  Thus, gedview.com is not a WP:RS, does not provide WP:V, and you cannot use anything from it in a Wikipedia article.  It's that simple.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:56, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rudy Giuliani's mother born in a place called Brooklyn, but ironically not in New York City 

message: This article need more.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.211.155.22 (talk) 22:09, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. And also better formatting of the ones that are there. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:47, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations. 

message: User:Wasted Time R in this edit deleted the details and nuked reputable citations for details about Giuliani's widely covered arrangement of living with gay roommates during the divorce (made relevant by the fact he declined to attend their recent marriage).  This really smacks of censorship and attempts to cleanse this biography of details that don't fit cleanly in the Republican mold.  Even the New York Post won't sink to such censorship on the subject!  So much for being bold on Wikipedia!  For the record the deleted section is below: Americasroof (talk) 17:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Giuliani then moved out of Gracie Mansion and into an East 57th Street apartment belonging to two gay friendsGiuliani fears ex-wife will hit presidential bid - Times Online Howard Koeppel (born 1937) and his domestic partner, Mark Hsiao (born 1960). Koeppel who owns Koeppel Automotive Group which sells Volkswagen, Nissan, Hyundai and Mitsubishi cars in Queens.Howard Koeppel and Mark Hsiao - New York Times - May 2, 2009 Guillinai was described as a good roommate who made his bed but squeezed the toothpaste tube in the middle. Koeppel selected his ties in the morning and Guiliani called him "mother."Three’s Company: Picking Up After Rudy - New York Magazine - August 24, 2004 Guiliani was invited to their wedding in Connecticut on May 2, 2009 but did not attend. Guiliani said he supports gay civil unions but not gay marriages.GAY-WED OPPONENT RUDY SKIPS PALS' NUPS - New York Post - May 3, 2009
No censorship, just attention to biographical significance and narrative coherence per WP:BLP,WP:WEIGHT, and other criteria.  That section of Giuliani's biography does not need to stop in its tracks to include mini-bio's of Koeppel or Hsiao (if they are notable, create new articles for them), nor does it need to discuss Giuliani's grooming habits (never discussed anywhere else in the article), nor does it need a flash-forward to a wedding many years later.  However, I have included his non-attendance at the wedding in Political positions of Rudy Giuliani‎#LGBT issues, where it has some marginal relevance to his position on same-sex marriage.  Wasted Time R (talk) 17:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

text: The section is WAY TOO VAGUE simply saying "gay friends."  I put specific names and occupations (it is interesting that he would be staying at a car dealer!).  The comments about what kind of roommate he was was done in an affectionate manner showing a domesticity that he was comfortable with.  Burying the fact he did not attend the wedding in the "issues" section is definitely a way of hiding it.  The area of interest on these articles are always the personal side not the issues. Americasroof (talk) 01:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Gay friends' is succinct and descriptive.  This is a relatively minor episode in Giuliani's story.  The main article is a fairly quick once-over of Giuliani's life.  If you look at Mayoralty of Rudy Giuliani, you'll see a number of important policy issues and Giuliani governing characteristics that have been relegated to it and are not in the main article.  If we're going to expand the level of detail that the main article covers, some of those deserve promotion first.  And if you want to get into the "personal side", Giuliani's three appearances in drag while mayor (which I researched and wrote up the details on) got put there, instead of in the main article.  Now if we're going to add back some personal side material into the main article, I'd suggest the drag appearances are much more illuminating of Giuliani's character and attitude and nonconformity than how he brushes his teeth or the occupations of his gay friends.  Wasted Time R (talk) 02:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Details of Giuliani's Gay Roommates 

message: I think that is appropriate to indicate in the lead paragraph that, as a mayoral candidate, Giuliani always ran on the Republican and Liberal lines, as this fact was central to winning the mayor's race, AND to his defeat in the quest for the US presidency.
NathanZook (talk) 01:20, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It was certainly part of the story of his mayoral elections, but it had nothing to do with his losing the presidential nomination campaign.  Who gets the Liberal and Conservative Party lines have much to do with the byzantine world of New York state politics, and not so much to do with ideology.  Wasted Time R (talk) 04:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Republican vs Republian/Liberal 

message: Why is there no discussion of his history as transvestite? It is not common for American politicians to be public transvestites and seems noteworthy. 66.65.49.220 (talk) 20:24, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That was akin to a Halloween costume if I remember correctly, but IAC pls provide a ref.--Hodgson-Burnett's Secret Garden (talk) 19:08, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transvestism 

message: The introductory section  of this article is pretty average. 9/11 ocurred at the tail end of his last year in office, yet it dominates the introduction. It's like George W. Bush's article starting with "George Walker Bush was the President of the United States during the War In Iraq. France condemned the invasion." I think it needs to be more detailed and less focused on 9/11. --58.170.100.72 (talk) 06:28, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone messed up the introduction. It is way too short for an article like this. Golfcourseairhorn (talk) 01:08, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

message: Although there is no separate article on Giuliani's early years (yet), a "series" navigational template has been added to this article just below the infobox template. (Also: See my comment at Talk:Public image of Rudy Giuliani#"Part of a series on" navbox.)--Hodgson-Burnett's Secret Garden (talk) 09:13, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sidebar nav aid 

message: How does this article not even mention his effort to clean up Times Square, turning it into what it is today?CrocodilesAreForWimps (talk) 05:27, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Concur. It is remembered among new Yorkers almost as much as 9/11. Plus, millions of people see/have seen Times Square; the description of it before and after (it is frequently said that Guiliani "Disnyfied it." of course before it was a pit of porno films, prostitutes, drug dealers, etc. it is perhaps the most famous destination in the Western world
A link to the main article to Times Square as Main article could be inserted.
Shlishke (talk) 05:03, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Times Square effort? 

message: At this point, I feel the section is well-sourced and written in a neutral manner. I have revised the content multiple times and have received only removals stating the content was NNPOV or utilizing politicized sources. As this has been remedied, I fail to see the current complication with the content. I am perfectly happy to revise it, but I do not feel that a person whose background that matches Mr. Giuliani's support for a terrorist group that killed Americans on a paid basis both before and after the de-listing is a subject that ought to be entirely ignored. Doubly so when they attacked in NYC immediately prior to his election of mayor and put forth as a champion of the war on terror.
As there have been no suggestions or improvements, I fail to see an adequate method for dispute resolution.
172.56.3.194 (talk) 04:56, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Here are some suggestions. 1) Don't use Wikipedia or Youtube as a source. 2) When someone reverts your bold edit, you do not revert back, but you should discuss on the talk page. 3) Use Neutral Point of View at all times. You probably do not see it, but your point of view entails having sources that are not related to Giuliani, but to the group. You are off-tangent there; the only source worth saving is NY Times.You did not do any of these. Therefore, you are liable to Edit Warring sanctions. – Epicgenius (talk) 12:58, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Also,, don't get to the point where you are reported for edit warring. – Epicgenius (talk) 13:03, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, you still don't seem to understand. Your sources are not up to speed as far as WP:RS. Some of them are used as WP:SYN for original research. The section is not neutral in tone. You are pushing a non-neutral POV and have stated under other IPs that you seem to be on a mission to insert this information. There is no consensus to add this information at this time. EricSerge (talk) 20:20, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

text: You realize you're still edit warring, right? Using a different IP, , is not going to hide the fact that you are still reverting without discussion on this talk page. – 19:48, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additions pertaining to Rudy Giuliani's support of the FTO PMOI/MEK 

message: Giuliani was defending Netanyahu coming to Congress, before American Iranians.
 Headline: A Raging Rudy Giuliani destroys Obama’s feckless Islamism and Iran Policies
* http://www.westernfreepress.com/2015/02/13/a-raging-rudy-giuliani-destroys-obamas-feckless-islamism-and-iran-policies/
QUOTE: "At times screaming with rage, Rudy Giuliani excoriates Barack Obama for his weak and feckless policies toward the global threats of radical Islam and a nuclear-armed Iran. This powerful speech was delivered at the Iranian-American Community of Arizona symposium “Countering Islamic Fundamentalism and a Nuclear-Armed Iran,” February 13, 2015, Phoenix, Arizona." -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 16:25, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  NEWS, for future editing 

message: Hello - Could someone more familiar with this article take a look at the text below? I am not sure what is supposed to be going on with the Seifman reference.
::* Koch, Edward I. (1999). Giuliani: Nasty Man. Barricade Books. ISBN 1-56980-155-X. Reissued, 2007.David Seifman, "Railing at Rudy", "New York Post", May 13, 2007, 9
Thanks KConWiki (talk) 20:59, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation jumbled up

message: Since you noted that Bratton went to work in Los Angeles, you might also want to note that he returned to NYC as Police Commissioner. From his Wikipedia article:
"On December 5, 2013, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio announced that Bratton would return to the post of Police Commissioner in New York City.[10]
On August 2, 2016 it was announced that Bratton would step down in September 2016 as commissioner of the NYPD.[11]"
Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 16:54, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This is Giuliani's article; in what ways would mention of Bratton's subsequent return (and departure) as commissioner improve this article? —ADavidB 02:27, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[William Bratton]].