Template talk:Infobox video game/Archive 1

message: Would anyone object if I added an (optional) field to the infobox for sales figures? I think it's important information that deserves a mention in the infobox. Jacoplane 03:59, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I came here to ask that the same thing might be done. I see it's been discussed further down, and in archives, and that we're still looking for reliable sources for figures. Just wanted to add my moral support :) --Quiddity 20:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sales figures 

message: I suggest adding a "Theme" field to the infobox, like "sci-fi", "cyberpunk", "fantasy", etc. --kAtremer 16:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Genre covers this just fine. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:32, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, genre is what the game is like playing, like smashing buttons in hope a combo will be born, or planning strategies, or playing roles. Theme is what it is looking like. There can be "sci-fi racing", "fantasy racing", "childish racing", and they all are of the "racing" genre, but have different themes. --kAtremer 07:10, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theme 

message: The usage info (on this talk page) seems to indicate that the optional fields must be present, even when they're not used, but when I look at the template code I see that all optional fields default to "", that is, empty.
So logically speaking, omitting those fields should have the same effect as declaring them empty. So I experimented. And yes, the template still works when the optional fields are omitted, which is the whole point of them being optional. Did I miss something, or was the template changed to do this after the usage info was written? Should I change the usage info to reflect this? Shinobu 04:10, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not all the fields are optional. You must have done something wrong or tested on fields that weren't optional. I just tested it and the optional fields don't show up when nothing is there. It is still best to list them regardless if they're being used. K1Bond007 04:56, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

text: As far as I am aware the usage info was written back when meta templates were still being used instead of the new class="hiddenStructure" technique, which is why it says they must be included as with meta templates it would break.  However I'd say it is still a good idea to have all fields present as a future editor might know suitable information for one of the previously empty fields and, seeing the empty field there, will be compelled to add it. — Ian Moody (talk) 12:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed that it's probably a good idea to include unused fields even if they're blank. FYI: I changed this template to utilize  a few days ago. This was to improve accessibility for disabled readers. For a visual example of the difference between hiddenStructure and meta-templates, check out this TFD nomination. BTW, with meta-templates it won't break if you literally don't provide the parameter (see sample with no parameters provided). Only six parameters are required. —Locke Cole • t • c 13:09, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Optional fields that aren't? 

message: I have noticed that a lot of people are still using PSX to mean the PlayStation, when in reality, the PSX is a luxury PS2/PVR released only in Japan... The official acronym for the PlayStation is PS1 or PSone. --Wulf 18:41, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PSX=PS1 

message: Following the examples in the film and book infoboxes, I've added  and  to this template. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:05, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See the main Final Fantasy game articles for examples of how they are used. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:22, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  preceded and followed 

message: Do we really need to know info about speed records in an infobox? I'd like to think an infobox should stick to info that's (mostly) static. —Locke Cole • t • c 01:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really think any such high score type field is necessary. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 02:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

text: If my past experience is any indicator, usually the people adding high-score type info to articles are doing so to boost their ego or their image. Giving them a space in the box just encourages it, IMO. Then there's the verifiability side of things. —Locke Cole • t • c 02:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Names aren't added - only the times are. Verifiability is not a problem because I link to SDA/NESvideos directly. Look at Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario 64, etc. The "problems" you mentioned don't apply here. Wikipedian06 02:44, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're being optimistic: just because you don't place names there, doesn't mean someone else won't. I'll defer to others as to whether or not the site you link to is a reliable source. —Locke Cole • t • c 02:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said, many of the articles I pointed to already had information about the speedruns. There were entire sections, visible in the Tables of Contents, devoted to them. Many of those sections have been there for months - some with names of those top players - and no one has bothered to clear them. (For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Super_Mario_Bros.&diff=47395362&oldid=47382479#Current_world_record_time)  Having this infobox field will give us a reason to clear them out. SDA stands for Speed Demos Archive, which is one of the top 3 speedrunning websites out there, along with Twin Galaxies. If they're not notable, why would they have their own articles? Hmm. Also, if you would actually check the sites you'd see that there are videos you can download that directly confirm the times, thus making the sources 100% reliable. Wikipedian06 03:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Speaking as one of the dudes who makes these things (well, tool-assisted anyway), no. I essentially see it as advertising for Speed Demos Archive, Twin Galaxies, nesVideos (Bisqwit's site). As cool as they are, I very much mind advertising their sites all over Wikipedia. Nifboy 04:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They're advertised in external links anyway. Wikipedian06 04:57, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In a way, yes, but not in any systematic fashion, nor at the top of the page as opposed to the bottom. Nifboy 05:06, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Frankly, I'd rather link to MobyGames, in the same fashion that Template:Infobox Film points to the IMDb. Nifboy 05:11, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Given the opposition to this addition, I've removed them from the infobox. I too don't see the point to these (reliability as a source, notability as information for an infobox, and blatant advertising are my problems with it). Regardless, additions to this infobox that are not general coding fixes or anything of the like should be discussed first before being implemented as these changes effect thousands of articles. K1Bond007 05:12, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I kind of liked the sales field, though. Nifboy 05:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Add it back then. I believe all the fields should be discussed since that was the rule the Wikiproject had going and because of how many articles it effected, but whatever. I see I missed Cyberskull's additions too. Oh well. Not gonna be a pain about this, but it just seems like this infobox gets longer and longer. Whatever. K1Bond007 05:32, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: CyberSkull's additions were reasonable: Template:Album infobox and Template:Infobox Single both include an optional chronology section, it only makes sense here as well (since videogames tend to have sequels fairly often). —Locke Cole • t • c 06:17, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

text: We talked about including sales figures here. There was no real consensus, but there seems to be a problem with getting verifiable statistics. Unlike with movies, game publishers do not tend to publicly say how much a single game grossed. jacoplane 09:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Records?

message: Does anyone else think that all these recent additions (preceded by, followed by, etc.) are getting out of hand? Soon, the infobox will take up the entire right side of an article no doubt. Its starting to look like a little too much... Thunderbrand 13:10, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The preceded by and followed by are handled quite nicely by the series templates, I think. Pagrashtak 15:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, this adds a bit of uniformity with the other infobox templates (most of which have a chronology section). The series templates are also usually at the bottom, and often contain a lot more than just which game came before/after (unless you're talking about the succession-style boxes, and then I still think the info is useful enough to warrant being in the infobox (and more prominent)). Regarding the other new fields, I agree, those are overkill. —Locke Cole • t • c 18:53, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think "preceded by" and "followed by" are ambiguous here when compared to other infoboxes.  Should it be next game by that developer (like the music infoboxes) or next game in that series (as is probably intuitive)?  Was Quake 3 followed by Doom 3 or Quake 4?  --Mrwojo 19:35, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. I would assume in the series, but this negates the purpose of the footer template that is on all Quake-related/Doom-related articles. Expansion packs and "spinoffs" are other problems. Did Call of Duty: United Offensive follow Call of Duty or was that Call of Duty 2? Spinoffs: did Unreal Tournament follow Unreal or was that Unreal 2?  What about games that are similar or the same, but came years later such as Far Cry Instincts (see Far Cry) or Prince of Persia: Revelations (see Prince of Persia: Warrior Within). I'm sure there are some better examples out there than what I picked, the point is, however, that there is a lot of gray areas with the preceded/followed fields. K1Bond007 20:05, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is exactly why the series templates do a much better job. The extra information Locke Cole refers to as an apparent distraction is actually an advantage. Pagrashtak 20:43, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the infobox should just go back to the way it was before.  No speedruns, no precending/followed by for the reasons stated above.  I think the series infoboxes that we have are a lot nicer. The infobox we have is already one of the largest ones around. - Hahnchen 17:43, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hmm, I guess most disagree, but I tend to agree with Locke Cole that the chronology section is ok (for series). Other fields like speedrunning shouldn't be included. jacoplane 18:15, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Out of hand? 

message: I think this template should include the address of the homepage of the game. Even though this can be found in the external links, it would be much easier to access it at the top of the article. --ZeroOne 10:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems my prediction is coming to pass. I would hold off until there is consensus. (as a note, a user added a "music" section to the code just recently) Thunderbrand 16:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Eek, it could be still worse though, take a look at Legend of the Galactic Heroes ...... ugh! Regarding the music section, I don't think we have consensus to include that. jaco♫plane 18:05, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, that is pretty bad! I guess it could be worse... Thunderbrand 18:07, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: DO people even go to the oficial homepage? I guess if if the game is in development.... But usually when a game is released fan sites become more primary... IN that cases would a fan site be lsited in the infobox? It shouldn't be, but the argument is there. My vote is to keep it out; the only reason for inclusion would be for wikinewbies, who dont realzie you ahve to scroll to the bototm to get hte external links. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 18:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

text: A homepage is only relevant to me if I can download the game or something like that. It's more appropriate in  than in CVG. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 05:39, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's exactly how I came to think of this. I wanted to download Soldat, which is a shareware game. For shareware games the official homepage is often the best media for all info related to that game. Official sites of true commercial games offer patches and some goodies. --ZeroOne 13:39, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Include homepage?

message: I don't think music is really needed. If the composer is of note, they go in the designer feild. If the music part of the program is of note, it would go under engine. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:16, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it does seem a bit much. Thunderbrand 04:15, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. jaco♫plane 07:36, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: It has been removed. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 06:26, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

text: For the Commodore 64, the composers were as famous as the game designers, and were usually given individual credits.  Please restore this feature of the infobox. --01:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music?