Talk:Dominique de Villepin

message: The Clearstream affair has been all over the French news this past month.  Is 172 a campaign operative? John wesley 13:27, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[172]] appears to be putting POV by deleting current news

message: We should put it in the very intro if a picture of him is removed.  If the article has a picture that makes it obvious that he is a man, then it may be redundant, but this is an encyclopedia and many non_french people may not know that it is a male not a female.  Not everyone already knows the names of second tier national leaders of non-english countries... can you name Australia politicians besides the PM? John wesley 21:15, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Male name

message: Have none of you thought about collaborating with fr.wikipedia?
Villepin is nobility. so whoever is taking him out the category the whole time, please just stop.
:So far I haven't seen anything conclusive to show that Villepin is nobility, so whoever keeps adding the link to the nobility category, please stop until something definitive is seen. I've been searching and so far all I've found is evidence that he is not noble. LeoDV 15:07, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Update again: This clearly suggests that Villepin is not nobility, and this shows his earliest known ancester as being born in 1814, which isn't enough to establish nobility. I'd say there's a strong presumption of non-nobility so, as a precaution, I recommend taking out the category until something is established. I'd like to point out that ~75% of people who have a particule ("du," "de" or "d'" before their name) are not nobility. LeoDV 15:19, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Good question. No idea. LeoDV 11:45, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Good sections, but does it need all this talk about redorer son blason? That's a bit out of the subject. LeoDV 06:08, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: I think it is important to explain this in detail, because non-French people are not familiar with all these subtleties. Besides, if you think the section takes too much space in the article, then expand the other sections, which are very poor at the moment, and so the Origins section will comparatively take much less space. Hardouin 11:41, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please keep in mind that there is a 32 kb limit to the articles. This is starting to look like the Benedict XVI entry.194.183.196.141 12:48, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Also, no offence, but non-French people don't care about these subtleties. What they care about is what Villepin's personal history and past policies are. LeoDV 14:50, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: YOU don't care, but some other readers may care. Wikipedia is for everybody. Hardouin 19:35, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No offence, but Wikipedia isn't for everbody. It's for its readers, not its contributors. On Wikipedia, good articles are and should be to the point, current and relevant. Whether or not the Villepin family wanted to redorer its blason in the 18th century is largely irrelevant to a man who is making worldwide news in 2005 because of his appointment as Prime Minister. LeoDV 20:29, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: .#1 Contributors can be readers too. #2 If you think readers couldn't care less about his aristocratic sounding name, you are quite wrong. There have already been a lot of conflicting edits on this article about whether Dominique de Villepin is from the nobility or not. So the subject obviously interests a lot of people. The reason why I wrote the Origins section is precisely because I wanted to establish straight records and end the edit war. Hardouin 22:40, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: No, that's not correct, Gorodish, that's wrong. You're so stupid, why do you write about stuff you do not know? Yes, "du" is a particule in France! No, Villepin is not part of French nobility because of his Villepin ancestors (who were notpart of French nobility) but only because of his maternal ancestors (which lineage reaches the Capetian kings of France). No, Villepin ancestors were not part of the nobilty - it's only fake nobility. Alsatian naming conventions?! No one of these supposed conventions does exist in Alsace!!! 90.28.115.53 (talk) 04:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Villepin as French nobility

message: Isn't it a little rude to call Villepin and the other people mentioned in the article just by their last name? I'm thinking of changing all the "Villepin"s to "Mr. de Villepin", the "Chirac's to "Mr. Chirac", etc. LeoDV 15:07, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In French the use of M. is polite. The lack of M. is a bit crude and impolite. In English however, the standard use is without Mr., and it is absolutely not impolite or crude. English and American newspapers quote absolutely everybody without a Mr. or a Mrs./Ms., they use only family names. If they want to be a little more polite, they will use a title, such as President, or Prime Minister, but almost never Mr. or Mrs./Ms (although there are exceptions.. the NYTimes for instance uses Mr. a lot). I'm talking articles here. The style in letters, of course, is different. Hardouin 19:39, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only the NYTimes, but The Economist always uses Mr. Wikipedia, however, does not, so I suggest we stick to the Wikipedia convention. LeoDV 20:25, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mr. de Villepin

message: I don't think that this article needs cleanup at this point. Let's wait a few days (weeks ?) till the dust settles.82.120.3.118 10:58, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Compare the quality and content of the article on Condoleezza Rice, also an intellectual and foreign minister. It doesn't need cleanup, but it does need more and better content. I've revamped it a little but it needs more. LeoDV 11:39, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: With Alain Juppé barred from holding political office for ten years (2004-2008)
What these years (2004-2008) mean? 2004-2008 is 4, not 10 years? ????
:Juppé has not been barred for political office 10 years.  This is merely one possible legal interpretation of his conviction: the Court of Appeals reduced the initial sentence to 1 year, but some legal scholars argue that this reduction was illegal. David.Monniaux 19:52, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good remark. I got mixed up in the dates! David.Monniaux 06:18, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alain Juppé 

message: What's the info regarding Villepin's time in the University of Paris II? What did he study? It sounds a bit unlikely that an ENA graduate would have to go there to study law, business or administration. LeoDV 07:18, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: ENA is a postgraduate school which specializes in public law and administration. You may enter it only after completing an initial education. It seems that Villepin did this initial education getting 3-year degrees (licences) in law and literature, and he also got a diploma from Sciences Po. Sciences Po is a usual starting point for taking the ENA entrance exam. In addition, it is not uncommon for "elite" people to do dual studies while at Sciences Po (for instance, some students at École normale supérieure do dual curricula at Sciences Po and some humanities university). Paris II (Panthéon-Assas) is probably France's best known law university. David.Monniaux 09:15, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm aware of all this. What I'm asking is: how do we know whether Villepin attended Paris II? LeoDV 09:37, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: His official bio says he has licences in law and literature. That would seem consistent with him attending Paris II for law studies — though I agree with should check. David.Monniaux 09:52, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever his full academic history is, what matters is that he is an énarque because it is how he became a diplomat and because it says a lot about his character. Within the scope of the article, I'd say the rest is irrelevant. LeoDV 14:48, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the Paris II and Paris X info. These are found in the "who's who in France" note published by the figaro on the internet after his nomination was announced. You may still find it in google's cache. Sprotch 05:30, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: Good point, you're right. LeoDV 20:31, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paris II 

message: The entire section on M. Villepin's Character appears to be a personal ad.  Aspiring poet?  I don't think this is appropriate for an encyclopedia article.  Can someone provide justification for it?
--Henrybaker 23:58, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This describes him as a self-published poet. How is it not appropriate? I'd say that a major political figure's interest in writing poetry would be quite relevant. LeoDV 06:34, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: You have a point, however this is a glowing description in your point of view. The fact that Villepin is a member of the State nobility and an ENA alumnus makes him despicable to a lot of people. Besides, perhaps unfortunately, not every French politician is a patriot or a republican. Besides, the most of what Villepin did as Interior Minister was to reaffirm republican principles agianst the (perceived?) threat of radical islamism. I'd say that makes the fact that he believes in what he does, unlike many politicians, relevant. Establishing these traits and others like his poetry are especially relevant to Villepin because his romantic, idealist personality clashes with the utterly pragmatic and unideological character of his mentor, Jacques Chirac. However, you're right that the whole "Life" section is badly arranged and I'll try to edit to take your remarks into account. LeoDV 16:07, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character 

message: The above sentence in the opening paragraph makes no sense? Is it unusual never to have contested an election? Is everybody else running around contesting the elections in France like in some banana republic? Some context is needed I daresay Preisler 13:12, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *Heh.. It means both things then doesn't it.. The "to call into question and take an active stand against; dispute or challenge" was what sprang to my mind... All the times I heard the words election and contest in the recent American election must have erased the intended meaning from my mind Preisler 16:43, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: I'll change the wording. LeoDV 09:07, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Villepin has never contested an election. (?) 

message: *Financial Times : Chirac "on Thursday [2005-06-02] named the new government". 
*actu-environnement.com : Serge Lepeltier was replaced by Nelly Olin on 2005-06-03? ("aujourd'hui" = today according to Google and my Oxford "Take off in French dictionary")
*People's Daily Online : "At the first cabinet meeting on Friday [2005-06-03], Chirac called on the new cabinet".
*CRI 2005-06-04 : "the new prime minister said the cabinet line-up would be announced by the end of the week [2005-06-05, 2005-06-10, or 2005-06-12?].".
Can someone please give a source of the date(s) the new ministers were sworn in, specifically Nelly Olin's? On 2005-06-03? — Jeandré, 2005-06-26t00:30z
:As far as I know, ministers are not sworn in. The nomination decree is from June 2, published on June 3 in the JORF. David.Monniaux 12:58, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Date(s) new ministers took office

message: Someone wrote "Villepin's aim is therefore to restore the French people's trust in their government, an achievement for which he has publicly set himself a deadline of a hundred days from the appointment of cabinet, a statement which can be viewed as ironic from a man whose first published book is titled The Hundred Days or the Spirit of Sacrifice". I'm not sure that all the readers will understand the irony.That's why Y add this link. --Geremy78 22:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's De Villepin. Cheers -- Szvest 01:00, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

text: No it isn't: not in France, anyway... Best / most conclusive evidence would be his own website, I'd think: they wouldn't get that wrong -- http://www.premier-ministre.gouv.fr/en/acteurs/biography_44/premier_ministre_m146/ -- and there it's "de". Cheers. --Kessler 00:08, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irony 

message: A comment on his Financial Times Editorial.
This comment appears today seriously wrong. De Villepin is now a serious candidate for the next election, and currently faces NiColas Sarkozy (the political expert doesn't even write correctly his name) with real political skills.
De Villepin seems to be trusted even by a large part of left-wing voters (according to several sondages).
This link should be retired, the comment has been revealed absurd by the facts. (des français ne pourraient-ils pas confirmer?)
:Pls sign your posts...
:I disagree with you about removing the link. The article as-presented currently contains very little which is not either simply factual or downright laudatory, besides this one link to this one blog. Villepin is a controversial figure -- any politician is -- and some indication of the parameters of the controversy belongs in the article, if only as links. Instead of eliminating this one, then, I'd suggest adding another, balancing, link to a pro-Villepin website. These are just links, they don't bulk up the article at all, and the "balancing" adheres to the NPOV idea. But there is great controversy, about Villepin and his ideas now, and the article would be dishonest to pretend there isn't.
:It's not the way things are done in France, perhaps. The seated prime minister there is accorded greater cordiality than might be the case elsewhere. See Wikipedia articles on other public figures from other countries, for examples. Perhaps the fr.Wikipedia article might be more formal and neutral. But here on en.Wikipedia I believe that indicating controversy -- without taking sides -- in an important part of NPOV.
:--Kessler 17:56, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why this link [about a commentary] ? 

message: Someone please take a look at this article and tell me why the system truncates a full-article edit, somewhere in the Career/Diplomat or Career/Politician sections?
I do the full-article edit, then go to "Show Preview" and the article is cut off at those sections. Happened three times now and never has done this before, either here or at other articles -- also just tested this with a couple of other articles today. Must be something about the code in this one? 
--Kessler 23:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trouble editing this / possible glitch? 

message: This article seems considerably biased against Villepin, with negativity across the entire article and particularly some highly subjective statements about him that don't fit into a NPOV context. Hauser 04:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I absolutely agree. Peco 10:32, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Maybe on the last section (Villepin's first cabinet), but the rest of the article seems fair to me. -- lucasbfr talk 00:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Too POV

message: what about this this video about the arguiing with leftist Holland (Socialist Party leader & husband of Segolene Royal). does someone have the time to sub it so it can bu used as a media link in the article? Shame On You 04:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: updt: this version is even better. Shame On You 04:58, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: De Villepin shows he got a pair

message: Will he lose his post now that Chirac is out of office? Therequiembellishere 05:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess this goes without saying now. Therequiembellishere 03:11, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Post

message: The article says his term as Prime Minister ended on 17 May. However, the French Wikipedia says 15 May. Which date is correct?--A bit iffy 13:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Date term ended

message: I've changed the language in the Prime Minister section to past tense, since Villepin is no longer PM. It might be interesting to get an assessment of how successful he was with his "100 days" objective. -- Hongooi 06:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not PM anymore 

message: Someone keeps changing this to give a translation of "appoint another prime minister" when the actual translation is more like "go fuck yourself". I don't want to get in an edit war or get blocked for 3RR or anything, but I do think an accurate translation (or some indication of how rude this phrase is) needs to be put there rather than just the reason he said it. 87.112.4.95 09:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Va te faire foutre 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Dominique de Villepin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120728074842/http://www.liberation.fr/page.php/?Article=391985 to http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=391985
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071024155244/http://www.cbsnews.com:80/stories/2006/05/22/world/main1640276.shtml to http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/22/world/main1640276.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120223190157/http://www.alalam.ir/english/detail.aspx?id=80490 to http://www.alalam.ir/english/detail.aspx?id=80490
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060211180435/http://www.ambafrance-il.org:80/diplomatie/archive.php?rub=1&periode=2003-02 to http://www.ambafrance-il.org/diplomatie/archive.php?rub=1&periode=2003-02#
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 05:50, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Dominique de Villepin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090628115027/http://www.elysee.fr/elysee/elysee.fr/francais/salle_de_presse/communiques_de_la_presidence/2007/mars/remaniement_ministeriel_communique_de_la_presidence_de_la_republique.74914.html to http://www.elysee.fr/elysee/elysee.fr/francais/salle_de_presse/communiques_de_la_presidence/2007/mars/remaniement_ministeriel_communique_de_la_presidence_de_la_republique.74914.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071002223656/http://www.elysee.fr/elysee/elysee.fr/francais/salle_de_presse/communiques_de_la_presidence/2007/mai/demission_du_gouvernement_communique.76618.html to http://www.elysee.fr/elysee/elysee.fr/francais/salle_de_presse/communiques_de_la_presidence/2007/mai/demission_du_gouvernement_communique.76618.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110611073025/http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=5161 to http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=5161
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ambafrance-il.org/diplomatie/archive.php?rub=1&periode=2003-02
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071024154214/http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/article.php3?id_article=4882 to http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/article.php3?id_article=4882
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:47, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified