Talk:Ensemble cast

message: I have seen very few epsisodes of Friends, but it doesn't seem to me to have an ensemble cast so much as six main characters. Thoughts? --BDD 01:16, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Friends 

message: Does Kill Bill really fit the description of an ensemble cast movie? It seems to me to have a very clear main character.
:I agree with this assessment Eboli 18:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kill Bill? 

message: Should 24 be included here? I know that Jack Bauer is the main character, but there are ensemble casts. If 24 is not considered to have an ensemble, than neither should the Star treks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.138.146.200 (talk • contribs) 
: The captains in Star Trek aren't the "main characters", whereas Jack Bauer is (as you say yourself). - LeonWhite 18:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  24? 

message: I think a good working rule would be that a fair number of the cast members have independent stories to tell, with roughly the same amount of time in each case.  Even in an ensemble piece, there will certainly be some characters who, to bastardize Animal Farm, are more main than others, but some number of the cast should have scenes where their story is the focus and where they could be considered, at least for that moment, the lead character.  I suppose that a situation where a group itself is the subject of the piece might also qualify, so long as the group were large enough and the members given roughly equal exposure.
How large the collection of main characters needs to be for the cast to qualify as an ensemble is an open question.  There must be some lower limit, or else Waiting for Godot and stand-up comedy performances would qualify.  Not sure where you could draw the line, though.
It is important to keep in mind that the fact a cast has a high proportion of known actors does not necessarily make it an ensemble.  Branagh's Hamlet, for example, is chock full of "names", but Hamlet is still ultimately a play with one lead and a bunch of supportings.
--Droll Sobriquet 05:33, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A lot of these are just productions with large casts 

message: Should this article include well-known books with ensemble casts...for instance, the Canterbury Tales? SliceNYC (Talk) 18:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literature 

message: is Die Another Day one of them?
Halle Berry is overrated Bond girl,
Madonna is overrated singer,
Rick Yune,
is it? Timothy Dalton's 007 and non-007 films are second-rate
: Die another day has no merit as ensemble film.--ConradKilroy 16:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ensemble cast in James Bond films 

message: Someone seems to have mistaken this article for a list.--24.80.25.44 07:50, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this a list or an article???? 

message: These long lists of works with ensemble casts are a bit jarring.  Why not move them to their own article(s) or perhaps we could create a category?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Straussian (talk • contribs) 12:42, August 27, 2007 (UTC) 
-I concurr. I don't really mind if they're split into new articles or just deleted completely, but currently the article looks far too cluttered. LukeSurl t c 20:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  These lists 

message: They aren't ensemble casts, Hawkeye Pierce and Michael Scofield are clear, main characters and more important than the others. That is why Trapper left in MASH.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.191.9.22 (talk) 07:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And more... Will & Grace?  Buffy the Vampire Slayer?  The names of the stars are in the show... (Unless you interpret "Will & Grace" differently) -- Chuq (talk) 03:58, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  M*A*S*H* and Prison Break 

message: The film "The High and the Mighty" (1954) features an ensemble of no fewer than 22 principal characters which meet the stated criteria of having roles that "are assigned roughly equal amounts of importance" in the production. (Eight of the actors who play these parts also receive individual "star" billing in the film's opening credits.) All 22 of these characters are continuously involved in the on-screen action and advancement of the plot throughout the picture, and in addition the first half of the two-and-a-half hour long feature is devoted to extensive development of each of the almost two dozen principal characters through both extensive interactive dialogue and many long, expensively produced flashback sequences. As such, "The High and the Mighty" thus quite clearly seems to qualify not only as a prime example of an "ensemble cast" film, but one of the best as well and should therefore be included and retained in any listing of films of that genre. (Centpacrr (talk) 23:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: ''The High and the Mighty'' (1954) as an "ensemble cast" picture

message: Scrubs's entire premise is the poster child of an ensemble cast. Each episode has multiple story arcs focusing on different characters, all essentially telling the same story. All main characters have roughly the same amount of air time, and special consideration is made to include a variety of characters in each episode. It should be put in place of 7th Heaven if anything, as that show is over and will eventually run out of syndication, losing almost all notability in comparison to the still-active Scrubs.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.151.174.208 (talk) 03:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I don't think it's relevant if a show is still on air or not, however, while I've never watched Scrubs, it does appear to be the preferred one, though I wouldn't want this to turn into people  just replacing another show with their favorite show, so maybe if you change it, a 7th Heaven fan might come around and change it back, so I find the change rather unnecessary, they're both ensembles, but go ahead and make it, I won't mind as long as you actually replace 7th Heaven rather than just adding another one to create a sprawling list of statistics, also, please sign your posts simply by typing ~~~~ 4 tildes, it will automatically change into your signature like so: The DominatorTalkEdits 03:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scrubs. 

message: Hi this is my first post on the talk pages of Wikipedia. I'm thinking that this page is about what an ensemble cast actually is, which is accomplished in the introduction, and a few examples are given in the introduction. |I think that is all the examples needed here, and a link to a new page should be made called something like "list of productions(?) with an ensemble cast." I mean firstly, enough examples are given in the introduction and that's all that's needed. Secondly, "fanboyism" could come into play here as someone mentioned above. I could delete say Lost and add Heroes (another tv series with such a cast) only for a big fan of Lost to put it back. Also, because this has been limited to a three per type example list, it will always be incomplete to a huge degree, yet who is to judge which deserve to be here? Who is to say that Lost is more ensemble than Heroes? Or that Reservoir Dogs is any more of one than Pulp Fiction, both Tarantino films? This is why we need a seperate page for a list of ensemble cast productions which can be continually added to with the only restriction being that there isn' any dispution that they are ensemble on the talk page. This page here should just have the examples given in the intro along with maybe a tv show (they're all films at present). On the same note, the fact that it is limited to three each below is made hypocritical when you have other EXAMPLES above. Why have some examples that are apparently unlimitless, then have some more examples below that are limited? Another page should definitely be created.Deamon138 (talk) 20:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you, but not about creating a whole new page, that is what Categories are for, we should create a category called :Category:Films with an ensemble cast and :Category:TV series with an ensemble cast etc. etc. So I agree, delete the examples. The DominatorTalkEdits 21:59, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for agreeing with me, I wasn't sure (being a relative n00b to all this) if I was talking rubbish or not. Okay so you advocate a few categories for this. I have a couple of questions for you. After looking through Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and navigational templates, I now know some of the advantages/disadvantages of categories and lists but I would like to know what reason(s) do you have for having a categories rather than lists for this? Also, what reasons do you have for having multiple lists/categories rather than say one list/category of such productions? I'm eager to learn some of the more detailed points of Wikipedia so thanks in advance.Deamon138 (talk) 00:00, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's mostly my personal preference, we could make a list, but these become hard to maintain. Everybody starts adding their favorite show/movie etc. and it becomes unmaintainable. If you haven't read it, see WP:NOT. Of course, I have no big objection to making a list article, but if we make it, I'd like to make it good, citing a reliable source calling the piece an ensemble for each one. The DominatorTalkEdits 00:43, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This shouldn't have any list elements 

message: I've created the :Category:Films with an ensemble cast page and will work on the :Category:TV series with an ensemble cast page too. I haven't put any films into the category yet, only added some stuff on its talk page (have a look to see why). I also agree that Ensemble film should be merged into this article here and the new category created (it too contains a list of examples). Also what should go above these categories in the "chain of command"? Any comments on this? Deamon138 (talk) 22:01, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ensemble categories 

message: Maybe some of this can be included into this article?:
Woody Allen once stated that this film style is something of an homage to Anna Karenina, and that it was that story that influenced him while he was making Hannah and Her Sisters. Over time these films (with the exception of a few) have been applauded for their multiple plots and characters, many of these films respectively receive Award nominations for their supporting roles.
Most ensemble films center on a single character or location; it is their connection to either the location or the person that makes their story valid in the ensemble.
In the 2004 film Crash, the stories are connected to Los Angeles; however it is safe to say that the stories are all connected in some way to Rick, the character played by Brendan Fraser.
In the teen comedy Can't Hardly Wait the characters are all connected by the fact that they are all attending the same graduation party.
'Pulp Fiction is a different type of ensemble plot in the sense that each story is not spread out over the course of the film like most ensembles; however each character is connected in one way or another by Marsellus Wallace.
Magnolia is the perfect example of an ensemble plot film, with a peculiar interaction among several individuals during one apparently normal day in the San Fernando Valley, California. Interweaving nine separate yet connected storylines, all connected in some way or another to Earl Partridge (Jason Robards).
'Hannah and Her Sisters and Crimes and Misdemeanors, although considered by many to be much more grander films have the pleasure of joining the raunchy teen comedy American Pie as a type of ensemble Plot film that has many characters that center around more than one main character, in Hannah and Her Sisters, the characters center around Hannah and her sisters Lee (Barbara Hershey) and Holly (Dianne Weist), where in Crimes and Misdemeanors, everybody centers around either Judah (Martin Landau) or Cliff (Woody Allen) . . . whereas in the comedy American Pie every character is filtered in one way or another through Jim (Jason Biggs), Kevin (Thomas Ian Nicholas), Oz (Chris Klein) or Finch (Eddie Kaye Thomas)
American Beauty could also be considered in this category as all the characters in the story are interacting through members of the Burnham family, and each family member has their own distinct storyline.
The upside for a performer in an Ensemble Plot film is that critics often look highly at the cast performances and are very rewarding to its cast whom can often receive an awards nomination for a very small role.
Michael Caine won an Oscar for a screentime of less than 15 minutes for Hannah and her Sisters, the same for Dianne Weist.
Magnolia, Despite a runtime of over 3 hours, gives Tom Cruise an Oscar nomination for nearly twenty minutes screentime.
Although Martin Landau appears in more than half of the movie, his nomination for Crimes and Misdemeanors was only a supporting nomination. This might have been to improve his chances as Tom Cruise and Daniel Day Lewis were both sure wins that year (Day Lewis won). Despite this, Landau lost to Denzel Washington.
Pulp Fiction boasted nominations for Best Supporting roles for Samuel L. Jackson and Uma Thurman and in a rarity for an ensemble ]lot film, John Travolta was nominated for best Actor in a leading role.
'American Beauty received acclaim for its entire cast and many were surprised when Chris Cooper was not rewarded for his efforts as Colonel Fitz. However the film boasted nominations for Kevin Spacey and Annette Bening (Spacey won).
I think most of this isn't needed for this article RIGHT NOW but maybe in the distant future once the article's been sorted out we can flesh it out with some of this. But we'd have to add info on TV shows, Plays etc equally not just this. Deamon138 (talk) 22:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Here is the information from the old Ensemble film article which now redirects to this one 

message: In the TV show section, I am replacing 7th Heaven with Cheers, which is a much more prominent show, having won several Emmys and having earned a top ten ratings position for eight years.  Also, Cheers has an FA-class article, while 7th Heaven has a Start-class article.  Finally, the cast section in the Cheers article has a nice description of what an ensemble cast is.  JTSchreiber (talk) 04:57, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think there is too much of a reason to change anything, but I'm not going to stop you. Just note that the quality of our article on a show has no significance on whether it is a strong, prominent example of an ensemble cast. I have never seen Cheers, but if you say that it is a better example, I'll take your word for it. The DominatorTalkEdits 05:42, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replacing ''7th Heaven'' with ''Cheers'' 

message: No offense but isn't it better to have more well-known/recognizable films rather than The High and the Mighty? I mean no offense to fans of this movie but this movie only has a miniscule 2000 votes on IMDb, tiny in comparison to these following more well known films: 12 Angry Men (1957), Magnolia (1999), etc.. Movies that people have actually heard of. If a person goes on Wikipedia to find out what ensemble cast means, I'd like to think that the person can relate to the information we provide them rather than saying to himself, "Wow I don't know anything about this movie; haven't even heard of it."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJ critikaL (talk • contribs) 02:19, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely the criteria is for whether a film is notable as being an ensemble film, not whether the film is just notable (or even popular as you suggested with the IMDB comment). IMDB popularity is not a good judge of popularity or notoriety overall (until just recently, the Dark Knight was the no 1 most popular film of all time, I am sure it's a very good film, but I reckon most of those votes were based on Heath Ledger's death). Surely with 12 Angry Men, Henry Fonda's character is the main one? I don't know about Magnolia (I did try to watch it once but got distracted, I'll try again some time lol!). I don't know that the list should be filled with the most famous films, just so long as it's a diverse list. I mean if someone hasn't heard of one of the films, then they can learn more by clicking on the link. Who knows, maybe they will go and watch it afterwards? Deamon138 (talk) 15:25, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The movie list has rather bad examples 

message: Well, the Reservoir Dogs crew just is not a patch on this, hey? And it is a British film, the only one on the list! There you go, that's what I call consensus. I agree!Benny the wayfarer (talk) 22:58, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Lol, go away all you sockpuppets! Seriously though, I reckon that we should keep Reservoir Dogs. As I said to the IP up above, I think Reservoir Dogs and Lord of the Rings are very very good examples of ensemble casts, and they are very different films too. However, the IP suggested A Prairie Home Companion (2006), and you have suggested A Bridge too far (I should like to see this film btw, thanks for the reminder). So I reckon we keep RD, and LOTR, and choose the third slot from A Prairie home companion, A bridge too far, and The High and the Mighty. So I'm going to revert your edit as part of Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, and then let any other editors jump in for a few days and see which examples they prefer. The we can get actual consensus lol! Deamon138 (talk) 22:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Bridge Too Far 

message: Went bold, made the swap between High and Mighty, and Prairie Home Companion. Anyone should revert my edit if they have a better example. 142.161.183.193 (talk) 04:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted to The High and the Mighty (film) which is a seminal example of the major star laden "Hollywood" ensemble cast dramatic film replete with character establishing flashbacks, etc, and which also has long been cross-wikilinked to this article in its own introductory paragraph as such a primary example.(Centpacrr (talk) 05:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Centpacrr, please look at the article for Prairie Home Companion, all your reasons apply to this movie as well. Editor, Deamon138 agrees with me as well that P.H.C. is a more suitable movie. 142.161.183.193 (talk) 08:27, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Forgive me for copying and pasting but A PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION is a seminal example of the major star laden "Hollywood" ensemble cast dramatic film replete with character establishing flashbacks, etc, and which also has long cross-wikilinked to this article in its own introductory paragraph as such a primary example. 142.161.183.193 (talk) 08:35, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Please see the earlier discussion above of this matter regarding The High and the Mighty as a film which also helped to firmly establish the ensemble cast genre as a popular and commercially successful means of motion picture story telling by its tightly intertwining the lives and stories of its 22 characters into a single event.(Centpacrr (talk) 11:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I am presuming that there was no further comment in my earlier discussion of this issue as apparently nobody had disagreed with my rationale for using THATM. (Also no attempt to replace it on the list with another film has been made until yesterday with PHC.) I pointed out my earlier posting as it contains a more complete statement of why THATM is the appropriate entry. If that film were replaced by PHC it would also mean all three examples were relatively recent (post 2000) films while ignoring a major film from half a century ago that was in many ways responsible for the establishment and success of the ensemble cast genre. (Centpacrr (talk) 19:14, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I merely pointed out your use as "discussion" as incorrect above, because I am basically a huge pedant! To show this further, I will point out that Reservoir Dogs was a 1992 film, not post 2000, but again, I get your point (which I believe I mentioned somewhere above too) that we should have a diverse range of films, and too many recent films wouldn't be diverse enough. Deamon138 (talk) 22:42, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: O'vay... my welcome to the world of wiki-editing. Anyway as I stated on Centpacrr's talk page, I'll accept his revert. No hard feelings at all. 142.161.162.181 (talk) 02:05, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I understand that "discussion" may have seemed odd for a one comment section to which nobody offered a reply but I used it generically as it is the term that Wikipedia uses in its menu bar (Article - Discussion - Edit the Page - New Section - History - Move - Watch/Unwatch). Also not to worry, Winnipeg editor, the back and forth discussion, and providing rationales for edits and examples, help make the final product better for all as Wikipedia is a collaborative effort in the long run. (Centpacrr (talk) 03:19, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Made the Swap 

message: This entry -- which was started on en.Wikipedia on May 23, 2003 -- hardly seems to fit the definition of fancruft ("...of importance only to a small population of enthusiastic fans of the subject in question...") implied by the recently added tags.  The entry simply provides a straight forward definition for a widely used term which describes a type of cast composition used in a particular genre of motion pictures, television series, and the theater (with three examples from each medium.) As it also does not seem to contain "trivia and irrelevant praise," I have removed the two tags making those claims pending discussion here.
As no other editor seems to have challenged this entry on these grounds in the almost six years it has been up on Wikipedia, if there is now some disagreement about its nature, status, and/or purpose, then it would seem that a reasoned case for adding these two tags to the entry should be made and discussed in here first before posting them again. (Centpacrr (talk) 11:45, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "Fancruft" Tag

message: There are at least three films featuring a cast with a changing protagonist playing the same role in the story (abbreviated the titles): P, I and N. This is kind of a mixture of an ensemble cast and (at first) a false protagonist. How to properly call this idea (for a new Wikipedia article)?
And are there more films or other artworks that use the same idea? --Brz7 (talk) 23:54, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Story with a protagonist played by different people

message: i think Arrested Development would be a much better example than Friends. should be added, or atleast switched. thoughts?IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 06:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually wouldn't say so; Friends does not have a central character (i.e. it has 6 central characters), making it a good example of an ensemble cast. However, Arrested Development, while definitely having an excellent cast all round, does have a main character who is the main foil to the rest of the characters (Michael)- the fact that he gets approximately the same amount of screen time as GOB or Lucille is irrelevant because the story revolves around him. Plus, not all of the main cast are equal: for example, Buster appears more often than Maebe does, GOB is focused on more than Lindsay etc. I'm not saying Arrested Development does not qualify as an ensemble, just that the cast of Friends is more equal therefore a better example, in my opinion. The DominatorTalkEdits 14:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Arrested Development

message: I love this movie, but it's a poor example of textbook ensemble cast. Not only is it named for its lead role, but the film clearly follows Danny Ocean (Clooney). Even Rusty (Pitt) and Linus (Damon) aren't as much as close seconds in terms of screen time or plot significance. Please find a better example.76.123.248.56 (talk) 03:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ocean's Eleven

message: this should definalty be included in the list  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.156.204 (talk) 15:50, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Skins?

message: Crash (2004 film) Seems like the perfect example.  JakobBorliner22 (talk) 11:50, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not just saying this because I think the movie is amazing. ok, maybe I am.JakobBorliner22 (talk) 06:58, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: CRASH

message: Why dont we create a page called List of Films with an Ensemble Cast, to avoid this page becoming like a list.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.31.144 (talk) 18:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's starting to seem like a good idea. It was suggested a year or two ago and I said we should create a category instead which we did; it was deleted a few days later, though, on the grounds that it's difficult to source what counts as an ensemble and what doesn't. Therefore, a separate list article (if it can get through SD and AfD) would probably be a decent idea. However, I would recommend starting with at least a dozen sourced entries or it's going to get speedy-deleted. The DominatorTalkEdits 22:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Films with an Ensemble Cast 

message: I thought the definition of "ensemble cast" was a production that had lots of famous actors/actresses in it. Am I wrong in assuming that? Allen (talk) 03:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you're wrong, although Hollywood PR people have recently started to misuse the expression as a synonym to the old term "all star cast", just as they are misusing the word "franchise" as a synonym for "series", and "character actor" as a nice way of saying "typecast actor" (although character actor normally means the opposite to typecast). "Ensemble cast" comes from "ensemble acting", which means "an approach to acting that aims for a unified effect achieved by all members of a cast working together on behalf of the play, rather than emphasizing individual performances", according to Dictionary reference. So, it can either be seen as an achievement by a director, who manages to get people to work together as a team instead of trying to shine as individuals, or simply the result of how the story is written. The main point is that it means a cast where a number of actors have equal prominence, i.e. there isn't one or two main characters, but perhaps five or six. Consequently, an ensemble cast doesn't have to have include any famous actors at all. Thomas Blomberg (talk) 11:25, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of "ensemble cast" 

message: The introduction appears to suggest that ensemble and all star are synomyns. They are of course not so.Royalcourtier (talk) 01:55, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ensemble and all star not synonyms 

message: The article lists Intolerance as the first example of an ensemble cast. However, the French film 'A Trip to the Moon' (1902) was earlier, and its Wikipedia article list it as having an ensemble cast. Would I be wrong to correct this? --RyanDanielst (talk) 18:58, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: Can we create a category called "Ensemble cast movies"? DynastiNoble (talk) 21:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category