Talk:ID3

message: I'd like to rewrite this page to make it considerably more readable. I want to explain how ID3 differs from other tagging formats, and why the multiple versions are hard to support at the time, in a less technical manner. Towards that end, if anyone is really attached to the ID3v1 specification or complete genre list please speak up now. IMO they're absolutely stupid; Wikipedia is not a specification archive. piman 06:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At the same time, an encyclopedia is about documenting everything, so I do not see why we shouldn't keep the old formats. Actually, a very large number of articles are about historical events, books, etc. so why not in computer science too? That being said, I agree that as it stands this article still looks quite messy. Alexis Wilke (talk) 00:05, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impending cleanup 

message: I changed PC to desktop because PC is overused and has a very confused meaning now.  It is often used to mean a computer running some version of windows, but originally the word referred to the hardware, which is capable of running, and often does run, many different operating systems.  Additionally, music players for desktop operating systems which run on non-PC hardware (think iTunes on the Mac!) are also able to display and edit id3 tags with no problem.   Jon Wilson 24.162.120.52 03:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly disagree, I feel Desktop isolates Laptops by definition.  Linux is most commonly used on a PC, which means only OSX fanboys would whine about such a thing, and anyone using OSX is more than familiar with the fact that ID3 isn't a windows only thing. -NeF (talk) 13:26, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  PC vs. Desktop 

message: I don't think iTunes should be cited in the "Editing ID3 tags" section, otherwise it seems that the most widely accepted way of editing ID3 tags is by using iTunes. I understand that for the majority of people iTunes is _the_ media player, but leaving the article as it is seems like placing a big advertisement in it. Asymmetric 16:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I think just saying "audio player" (or "music player") with a link to the comparison page would be preferable. Scott.wheeler 20:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  iTunes 

message: I'd like to propose an additional paragraph for the problems and criticism subsection: the playcount field that was added during the development of ID3v2 (I believe it was in version 2.2). Since ID3v2.3 the tag is called PCNT and, of course, records the number of times the file has been played back. This tag is criticised heavily because it does not actually represent information about the audio file. For example, each time a file is listened to with a player that updates the PCNT field, it becomes to P2P applications or backup software essentially a new file, although technically no change has been made. This results in everyone having a supposedly different file in file sharing networks or file cataloging utilities, depending on how often it has been listened to, and backup software storing these files not every time they have been changed, but every time they were listened to. 84.227.18.173 13:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, reading over that section again, I'd tend towards the opposite direction.  I think that criticisms of specific frame types is really too specific for the article.  I'd rather generalize it to something like, "ID3v2 has several values that it stores which are problematic when used in day-to-day applications.  Examples include [...]" but not jumping into the specific frame names. Scott.wheeler 11:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay, sounds good. I think the article should also mention that those tags are not only problematic in practical use, but also theoretically flawed. ID3 is a metadata standard that exists to describe the piece of music it is associated with it. It should be clear to anyone who has a basic understanding of databases that information like "playcount" or "rating" is not actually related to the music, but to a specific listener. 84.227.94.168 (talk) 17:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism: Playcount 

message: Just a note here in case anyone has time for it before I do; this edit was obviously made by a non-native speaker and introduced many gramatical errors. Scott.wheeler 12:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyediting needed 

message: I just found out about how virus code can be embedded in an ID3 tag.  I'm by no means an expert on the subject but I was surprised there was no information about this on Wikipedia.  Apparently back in like 2002 Windows XP and WinAmp 2.something were exploitable using a buffer overrun technique to execute code from the ID3 tag in an mp3.  Both Windows and WinAmp came out with patches to correct the vulnerabilities.  With updated software, as far as I can tell, it's impossible for an infected mp3 to infect a computer system, but mp3s can still contain embedded viruses.  If anyone has more information, I'd say it would be worth it to include on the article page.  --CBecker 06:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be a bug in those respective programs and has little to do with ID3 tags themselves.  I've also not heard of these (and I expect that I would have...); do you have any sources for this information? Scott.wheeler 11:22, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Such a bug was found in Winamp in 2005. The term "virus" is rather lurid in this context though. Such code could be anything i.e., "abitrary code". Even if one can assume such code would seldomly do something good, a virus is a rather specific kind of code e.g., it could just as well launch your browser and display some ads which is not a virus. In any case, this issue is more about Winamp than ID3 because it's a flaw in the implementation and not the design. Showing ads in a browser is actually supported by Microsoft and QuickTime which makes that one a design flaw considering that spammers love this feature. Buffer overflows that allow injection and execution of arbitrary code are not uncommon, so basically this will be possible with many software/data combinations. Winamp bug (2005). --217.87.88.52 20:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Viruses in ID3 tags 

message: The biggest flaw with current versions of ID3 is that lack of ability to use multiple data for the same tags, such as having multiple genres.  It would have to be a non specified number of fields within the 1 tag.  Having music that can be classified as multiple genres such as DnB (Drum&Bass) and Psychedelic makes only having one genre tag rather useless.  There are many popular music torrent sites that employ tagging, which allow multiple genres to be tagged to a song allowing for much easier ways of searching within the sub genres of music.  This gives indication that the functionality would be widely used and does in fact improve cataloguing of music.
Is there any indication that ID3 may one day allow such a thing? -NeF (talk) 13:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While this isn't really the right place to debate what ID3 should or shouldn't have, ID3v2 has always supported multiple genres, support for such is just not generally used in the applications that work with it. Scott.wheeler (talk) 20:26, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for responding, I have come to realize this fact over the last few months since switching to Foobar2000, which has proper parsing of multiple items within a single field.  I guess my disappointment was misdirected and should be towards devices and software players that do not allow this functionality. --NeF (talk) 22:57, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  2NF Tags (or Multiple Genres) 

message: At $11 under  the field is labeled as "A bright coloured fish".  Is this correct?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.211.156 (talk) 16:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, see the id3 spec Mikachu42 (talk) 20:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible error/vandalism?  (no, bright coloured fish is in the spec) 

message: I'm guessing that in the tag list $11 shouldn't be: $11 – A bright coloured fish  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.130.227 (talk) 03:48, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  ID3v2 tag misinformation 

message: As there seems to be no discussion on this page regarding the "banner" style template tag that has been applied to this article I have cleaned it up.  I have replaced the multiple issues template with one requesting additional citations.  The remainder of the issues seem unsubstantiated:  
Lead section does not adequately summarise:  this does not appear to describe the introduction which summarise the subject clearly
Original Research: while this may be true it seems to simply duplicate the request for more citations.  p.s Personally I find this requirement has become a problematic issue on wiki that conflicts with the basic edict that nothing should stand in the way of improving wiki or an article - clearly this article is valuable and simply needs references, something the complainant could have provided in addition to the required explanation of the banner-tag on this Talk page.
Too technical: in comparison with articles on similarly technical subjects I think this one is remarkably non-technical.  See e.g articles on science subjects of on other ICT subjects.
LookingGlass (talk) 08:59, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up of template tags 

message: It would be helpful if the page said at least briefly how ID3v2 tags are embedded in MP3 files (where they fit within MP3 syntax) and then pointed to further information.
2602:306:C5A2:9160:221:97FF:FE13:6E3 (talk) 06:18, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Perhaps the title should be "MP3 file meta-data". As far as I know. MP3 files can contain leading and trailing meta-data (the designations are mine, please correct if necessary, I am not  native speaker).
* Leading meta-data precedes the actual MP3 stream, and consists of ID3 V2.2 and higher frames. Syntactically the first MP3 frame may contain meta-data as well, in the form of 'Xing' or 'Info' data (both are the same, apart from the signature).
* Trailing meta-data follows the actual MP3 stream. I have observed three types:
** ID3V1 tags
** APE tags (APETAGEX)
** Lyrics tags.
While the order appears to be fixed, these tags occur in various combinations. Some of them may be considered obsolete, but some files only contain "obsolete" meta-information so it is still relevant for identification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rbakels (talk • contribs) 15:20, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Embedding in MP3 

message: What is ROMS?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.36.39.182 (talk) 07:18, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch! I have changed it to "ROMs" since this is most likely a plural form rather than a 4-letter-abbreviation. However, it could still mean various things in a statement as vague. Console ROMs with firmware, CD-ROMs, DVD-ROMs? Since I cannot answer this question, I have added a clarification needed tag. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 09:57, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  ROMS 

message: In the ID3v2.3 specification the TYER, TDAT and TIME tags are used to store the date of the "recording", and the TRDA 'Recording Dates' tag also exists explicitly to store details of the recording dates. In practical implementations of id3v2.3 in tagging software, the TYER, TDAT and TIME fields are used to store the Release Date (date that the album or song was published) rather than the date that the performer recorded the track.
When the ID3v2.4 specification was published, the changes document stated that the TYER, TDAT, TIME and TRDA fields were replaced by TDRC (recording date), rather than saying that TYER, TDAT and TIME fields were replaced by TRDL and TRDA by TRDC which would have better reflected the actual usage of TYER etc. in real products. I believe that this was a mistake of interpretation, taking the use of "recording" to mean "recording date" rather than "recording publication date". Unfortunately, authors of music taggers and players decided to follow the definition in the changes document and use TDRC to store the release date, resulting in TDRL being unused and no tag field now available in id3v2.4 to store the recording date.HydrogenAudio tag mapping for foobar2000MusicBrainz Picard tag mappingJaikoz tag mappingMusicBee tag mappingMediaMonkey tag mapping
I believe that this issue should be highlighted in the ID3 wikipedia page.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paf uk (talk • contribs) 14:55, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  ID3v2.4 use of TDRC and TDRL tags 

message: What is Negerpunk ? --Abdull 12:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a derogatory, racist term, see https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?t=3924. "Neger" is the (not necessarily derogative) Dutch and German word for a black person of African origin. Rbakels (talk) 06:13, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

text: It is mentioned because it was part of the list provided by Winamp. Alexis Wilke (talk) 20:21, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

text: Yes. I removing the link. I don't think there is a need for it. Alexis Wilke (talk) 20:21, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Negerpunk 

message: The primary source for ID3, at ID3.org has been inaccessible since approximately November 24 2021. 
That appears to be is the last complete snapshot currently available on Archive.org, with no internal dead links within the snapshot. 
https://web.archive.org/web/20211118142208/https://id3.org/Home
The Library of Congress uses the February 2007 version of this ID3 wikipedia article as a (primary? secondary?) source for the specification of the ID3v2.x formats.
https://www.loc.gov/preservation/digital/formats/fdd/fdd000108.shtml
Should all links in this ID3 article be updated to point to that "Wayback Machine" snapshot?  Jmonti824 (talk) 05:12, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primary Source Offline since November 24 2021 (as of July 5 2023)