Talk:Prince John Konstantinovich of Russia

message: Quite a lot of discrepancies with the titles of Elena and their two children. Before marriage, Elena was HRH; after marriage, she was HH. Alexander III decreed that only the children and the grandchildren of the Tsar in the male-line could hold the title HRH Grand Duke/Duchess. The others would be HH Prince/ss. Morhange 23:07, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, Elena did not lose her HRH, because it was not in purview of Russian law to regulate anything in Serbian titles. She was simultaneously HRH and HH, in which situation HRHtakes precedence, also on use. And, there were no Russian style of HRH Grand Duke/Duchess; such all were HIH (imperial highnesses), of course not royal. Shilkanni 02:33, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Prince Ioann Konstantinovich of Russia, 9,170 hits on Google
Prince Ivan Konstantinovich of Russia, 1,040 hits
Prince John Konstantinovich of Russia, 1,010 hits
Prince John Constantinovich of Russia, 198 hits
I also tried a search of Google books, but that search turned up a number of Russian princes prior to the 20th century. The raw Google search turned up more specific references to this person and it's also the search that the average Joe is likely to do on Google. Take a look at the top pages that come up. Another on-line encyclopedia also uses Ioann Konstantinovich. Charlotte Zeepvat's 2004 book The Camera and the Tsars uses "Ioann Konstantinovich" as do several other biographies I own that were written in the last decade or so. --Bookworm857158367 (talk) 13:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Raw google is not reliable for any purpose; it does not represent reliable, or in this case English, hits. In this case, you have made  elementary errors of method also: 
*Your search phrase will attract hits on every file which contains Ioann and Constantinovich; looking at the results shows that this has produced false positives among the first ten search results, although Google does tend to place exact hits on a phrase high. 
*You have also neglected to exclude Wikipedia itself; much of the first page is Wikipedia. We and our mirrors cannot prove English usage; they prove our usage, which is not reliable.
*You did not select for English. Nor does your search phrase compel English; of is ignored. 
Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:49, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That may well be, but even with my "elementary" search I found more references to Prince Ioann Konstantinovich or to Prince Ivan Konstantinovich than I did to Prince John Constantinovich. The references that are made that are specifically about him are to Ioann or Ivan. As I said, every book I have about this family that was published in the last 10 years refers to him as Ioann or Ivan. --Bookworm857158367 (talk) 00:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Data

message: Someone asked how he is referred to in books about the Romanovs. In the books I have, The Camera and the Tsars, The Romanovs: Love, Power and Tragedy he's referred to as Ioann. I have a couple more in storage, but I'll see if I can dig them out to check. Also, on Prince Nicholas Romanov's website, he's referred to as Ioann, and one the page for a Russian Orthodox Church another Ioann. Morhange (talk) 16:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Then we really should say why he was given an unusual name, whatever we do about the title. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Grand Duke Konstantin Konstantinovich supposedly preferred the old-fashioned Russian names and Russian customs for his children, though I can't remember exactly where I read it. Tatiana used to be a name that was more popular among peasants and was viewed as somewhat rustic, but the eldest daughter in the family was named Tatiana after the character from Pushkin's Eugene Onegin. Ioann was the most ancient Russian form of the name, which probably appealed to his father. --Bookworm857158367 (talk) 00:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I do remember reading that, and I think it was in a letter he wrote, which is in the book A Lifelong Passion. But I thought Nicholas named his daughter Tatiana after Onegin, while KR named his daughter for the peasant background of the name. Morhange (talk) 22:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think both Tatianas were named for Onegin, though Konstantin's Tatiana probably made it seem more "legitimate" for Nicholas II to use. I have Lifelong Passion as well and I just noted that Ioann is referred to as Ioann there rather than John. --Bookworm857158367 (talk) 23:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: More data

message: His body is still in Beijing, under the pavement of the parking lot? J S Ayer (talk) 15:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Place of repose