Talk:Convention of Kanagawa

message: As I was reading this entry, I was surprised at the number of assertions about American aims.  There is very little to suggest what the Japanese might have benefited from in such a treaty as the Kanagawa Convention, and it seems like speculation that the Japanese (of all people in Asia) simply submitted to so-called gunboat diplomacy.   As I was reading down the Wiki article, I noticed that most of the text is sourced to a W. G. Beasley, professor at the University of London, and his book on the Meiji Restoration.
I have not read Professor Beasley's book, but it seems reasonable that there are other perspectives than a British person commenting on U.S.-Japan relations, as to what was going on during the 1850s between Japan and the western seafaring powers and particularly with America.   In fact, Professor Beasley's interpretation of the Perry Expedition's alternative goal reads remarkably like the tactics of the British Navy of that century, that generally entered a port and started bombarding the harbor's populace if Britain wasn't getting its way (e.g. Bombardment of Fort McHenry, Baltimore, Maryland, 1814; Bombardment of Kagoshima, Japan, 1863).  
Arguably, Japan was not bullied into the treaty of Kanagawa at all.  The Shogunate realized that the industrial and scientific revolutions had advanced greatly in the West---far beyond what could have been understood by the first Tokugawas of the 1600s, and many outside Japan, of course, as well.  The Japanese realized that they would inevitably have to make a treaty of commerce (not just a treaty to provision) with a western power in any event, and it might as well have been the Americans, since the Dutch told the Japanese so much about them, and the reputation of the British was already well understood from its dealings with China in the first Opium War.
It is a shame when myths and stereotypes get spun and repeated as history.  It would be great to read a more realistic account of the geopolitics considered from the Japanese perspective, of a country that did not have to open itself to western contact.  It would be good to see the part about Biddle revised to state that he was physically attacked, and that is the main reason the U.S. navy left in 1846.   There are second generation sources (late 1800s) that confirm this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoofin (talk • contribs) 11:53, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: W.G. Beasley as the main source

message: Tokugawa Ieyoshi died in 1853, soon after he heard of Perry's arrival. So how could he be responsible for this Convention? KC130 (talk) 07:46, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Tokugawa Shogun

message: Reading the actual text of the Convention of Kanagawa, I don't see any article which specifically states that Japan must open Shimoda and Hakodate to "trade".  The treaty stipulates that American ships may stop in Shimoda and Hakodate and purchase wood, coal, water and supplies necessary for that ship, but nowhere does the treaty state that general trade of goods (not related to ship's supplies) must begin.  I feel this is a great and common misunderstanding of the actual Convention of Kanagawa.  In practice, the creation of ports of provision may have snowballed into trade.  But it is important for Wikipedia to explain how that happened, when the treaty itself did not force general trade upon Japan.  This fact has long been overlooked in many sources that explain the opening of Japan.  If ships were simply stopping at Shimoda and Hakodate to buy supplies and move on, then would there have been any justifiable Sonno Joi movement?  How did it come about that the simple provisioning of ships snowballed into a large foreign presence so embarrassing that the Tokugawa Shogunate eventually collapsed?  --Westwind273 (talk) 21:26, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Trade?

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