Talk:Clan Mackenzie

message: A lot of the information on clan battles in the article is wildly inaccurate, or entirely speculative.  Also, many of them seem to contain text lifted directly from the websites linked to as sources. Lianachan 00:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battle information 

message: Any objections to moving the page so it is titled with a lower-case k?--Celtus (talk) 08:26, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, i put up a request for an admin to move it over (Wikipedia:Requested moves). I tried to do it myself but for some reason it wouldn't work.--Celtus (talk) 09:48, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved the page. Cheers. -GTBacchus(talk) 20:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. Thanks GTBacchus.--Celtus (talk) 06:36, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

text: My mistake, no wonder i put a citation needed tag on that.--Celtus (talk) 06:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I can't compete with your knowledge of Gaelic, but should the name's Gaelic origin be determinative in an English encyclopaedia article? My own guess is that more people called MACKENZIE (including my own Highland, if English-speaking, grandfather) would spell their name Mackenzie than MacKenzie - and they probably pronounce the 'z' as 'z' as well. One argument in favour of strict Gaelic usage might be that "CLAN MACKENZIE" has not existed as a real entity since the middle of the 18th century, or perhaps earlier. But, if one is to talk about the "modern Clan Mackenzie" at all, should one not have regard to how the majority of Mackenzies prefer these days to spell their own name? (And, if so, does anyone know how one could test the issue?)  45ossington (talk) 06:54, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, i think the article should be named the official name of the clan. The Clan Mackenzie Society of Scotland and the UK spells it with a lowercase k, same as the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs, also Burkes Peerage lists the chief as "Chief of Clan Mackenzie". About the Gaelic, obviously today Mackenzie is not a patronymic name which describes someone's father, it has turned into an Anglicised surname. I don't see how Gaelic spelling should effect how an English wikipedia article is titled though. I can see why someone would object to a lowercase letter if most people actually spell the name with an uppercase, but still the clan article should be titled after the official name. Thats what i think, anyways.--Celtus (talk) 08:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

text: What about the Scots themselves? I have had a quick look at the telephone directory for Dingwall, being a town sufficiently near the Mackenzie heartlands, and the vast majority (out of 102 in total) are identified as "Mackenzies", there are a few "MacKenzies" and a very few "McKenzies". It's interesting if the Scottish diaspora has adopted a different practice.45ossington (talk) 20:15, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that 25 million people across the world claim Scottish ancestry <Scottish National Museum @ http://www.nms.ac.uk/our_museums/national_museum/explore_the_galleries/scotland/scotland_a_changing_nation/leaving_scotland.aspx> and apparently only 5 million live in Scotland, I think it's much more likely that the shift occurred in Scotland, perhaps recently, as opposed to it occurring upon emigration to the many different countries Scots have relocated to over the centuries. My grandfather's grandfather came to North America and my grandpa told me that his grandpa didn't change his name. I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but what are the odds that Canada, Australia, the U.S., etc. all mistakenly capitalized the K? Perhaps the more important question is whether current Scottish citizens that are Mackenzies want to acknowledge expats and their offspring. I would sure hope so. The last time I was in Scotland, I separately ran into two McKenzies that had repatriated from Canada.TaraMcKenzie (talk) 03:05, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The official clan website spells it "Mackenzie" with a lower case "k".. This is also the correct grammatical way to spell it in the English language.QuintusPetillius (talk) 09:17, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, cite your source for your assertion about the grammatical spelling of the name. TaraMcKenzie (talk) 18:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I was told that the modern convention was a capital letter for names which remain largely unchanged (eg. MacDonald, MacNeil etc), but lower case for names substantially changed/substituted by an English name (so Mackenzie for Mhic Coinnich, Maclean for Mhic Gille Eoin) or for clans where the name refers to a title/position rather than an individual (so Macintaggert son of the priest, Mackintosh son of the toisech etc). Unfortunately I can't cite a reference for this. I realize however that no convention was in place when many Gaelic clan names were translated into English on emigration forms for instance in the 18th and 19th centuries, resulting in the many different spellings we see today. Perhaps in our case it doesn't help that Kenneth (the z was originally silent in Kenzie, so pronounced Kenny) is an English name originally unrelated to the Gaelic Coinnich, or even the Gaelic Cináed, also often translated as Kenneth, as in Cináed Mhic Alpin or Kenneth MacAlpin first King of Scots.Ian Macken (talk) 08:14, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Clan MacKenzie]] to [[Clan Mackenzie]]

message: Ditto in this heading - unless you have decided to leave it unchanged until the heading of the whole article is changed. There is a slight breakdown of language where you refer to the Earl of Cromartie's present estates; but, in any event, I wonder if he really is still a substantial land-owner - is there any evidence that he retains more than a few acres? I haven't found any on the web.
Oh, and thanks for taking this page on.
45ossington (talk) 10:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: My mistake, no wonder i put a citation needed tag on that.--Celtus (talk) 06:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I can't compete with your knowledge of Gaelic, but should the name's Gaelic origin be determinative in an English encyclopaedia article? My own guess is that more people called MACKENZIE (including my own Highland, if English-speaking, grandfather) would spell their name Mackenzie than MacKenzie - and they probably pronounce the 'z' as 'z' as well. One argument in favour of strict Gaelic usage might be that "CLAN MACKENZIE" has not existed as a real entity since the middle of the 18th century, or perhaps earlier. But, if one is to talk about the "modern Clan Mackenzie" at all, should one not have regard to how the majority of Mackenzies prefer these days to spell their own name? (And, if so, does anyone know how one could test the issue?)  45ossington (talk) 06:54, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, i think the article should be named the official name of the clan. The Clan Mackenzie Society of Scotland and the UK spells it with a lowercase k, same as the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs, also Burkes Peerage lists the chief as "Chief of Clan Mackenzie". About the Gaelic, obviously today Mackenzie is not a patronymic name which describes someone's father, it has turned into an Anglicised surname. I don't see how Gaelic spelling should effect how an English wikipedia article is titled though. I can see why someone would object to a lowercase letter if most people actually spell the name with an uppercase, but still the clan article should be titled after the official name. Thats what i think, anyways.--Celtus (talk) 08:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

text: What about the Scots themselves? I have had a quick look at the telephone directory for Dingwall, being a town sufficiently near the Mackenzie heartlands, and the vast majority (out of 102 in total) are identified as "Mackenzies", there are a few "MacKenzies" and a very few "McKenzies". It's interesting if the Scottish diaspora has adopted a different practice.45ossington (talk) 20:15, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that 25 million people across the world claim Scottish ancestry <Scottish National Museum @ http://www.nms.ac.uk/our_museums/national_museum/explore_the_galleries/scotland/scotland_a_changing_nation/leaving_scotland.aspx> and apparently only 5 million live in Scotland, I think it's much more likely that the shift occurred in Scotland, perhaps recently, as opposed to it occurring upon emigration to the many different countries Scots have relocated to over the centuries. My grandfather's grandfather came to North America and my grandpa told me that his grandpa didn't change his name. I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but what are the odds that Canada, Australia, the U.S., etc. all mistakenly capitalized the K? Perhaps the more important question is whether current Scottish citizens that are Mackenzies want to acknowledge expats and their offspring. I would sure hope so. The last time I was in Scotland, I separately ran into two McKenzies that had repatriated from Canada.TaraMcKenzie (talk) 03:05, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The official clan website spells it "Mackenzie" with a lower case "k".. This is also the correct grammatical way to spell it in the English language.QuintusPetillius (talk) 09:17, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, cite your source for your assertion about the grammatical spelling of the name. TaraMcKenzie (talk) 18:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I was told that the modern convention was a capital letter for names which remain largely unchanged (eg. MacDonald, MacNeil etc), but lower case for names substantially changed/substituted by an English name (so Mackenzie for Mhic Coinnich, Maclean for Mhic Gille Eoin) or for clans where the name refers to a title/position rather than an individual (so Macintaggert son of the priest, Mackintosh son of the toisech etc). Unfortunately I can't cite a reference for this. I realize however that no convention was in place when many Gaelic clan names were translated into English on emigration forms for instance in the 18th and 19th centuries, resulting in the many different spellings we see today. Perhaps in our case it doesn't help that Kenneth (the z was originally silent in Kenzie, so pronounced Kenny) is an English name originally unrelated to the Gaelic Coinnich, or even the Gaelic Cináed, also often translated as Kenneth, as in Cináed Mhic Alpin or Kenneth MacAlpin first King of Scots.Ian Macken (talk) 08:14, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: The Modern Clan Mac(k/K)enzie

message: Is there anything in the infobox which dates from before the 19th century? Does any of it have anything to do with the clan? DinDraithou (talk) 07:49, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: ... Doune Castle was selected due to its ease of location. This may be surprising to viewers who know Castle Leod as the seat of the Clan Mackenzie and accurately represents the historical period which Diana Gabaldon seeks to portray.</p/p>
Grammatically, the only possible subject of represents is This, at the beginning of the sentence. So the sentence is saying that the selection of Doune Castle accurately represents the historical period. I'm pretty sure this isn't what's intended, but I can't tell what is intended. Koro Neil (talk) 02:09, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing sentence