Talk:Pancasila (politics)

message: I've added info on JI as an anti-pancasila group & info on 1948 civil war that claimed 27000 lives based on the commentary in a newspaper. --*drew 04:59, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Source

message: I'm writing a paper on Pancasila as Ideology, role in Nation will post set of references once done.  Or a new article altogether--Trtskh 05:57, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: Why Soekarno adapt the terminology Pancasila? Since Pancasila is also the five pillars of Buddhism. As far as I know, Pancasila of Buddhism isn't very common among Indonesian during pre-Independence era and sanskrit is not a common language among Indonesian. 141.213.240.242 06:36, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pancasila terminlogy 

message: In the several articles that Wikipedia has about Indonesia and its history the two differnt spelling of Suharto and Soehatro and Sukarno and Soekarno are used somewhat interchangeably.  I suggest picking one and sticking with it throughout the series of articels on Indonesia. Let's discuss whether uniformity is necessary, if so which one do we pick, and if we pick one there sohould be some kind of note somwhere in each article that alerts the reader to the existence of the alternate spelling.  Comments? Gatherton 15:58, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. 'Suharto' and 'Sukarno' are the spellings used by both 'The Jakarta Post' and the English language edition of 'Tempo' magazine - the two main English language news publications in Indonesia  Davidelit 08:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Disagree. 'Su' is not just about spelling, but also represents the year they was born. If you live in Indonesia, 'Suharto' and 'Soeharto' can be a different person. For example, one of the current Indonesian Movie Director, Rudy Soedjarwo. You can't change the name into Rudy Sujarwo. Kunderemp 16:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standardizing Spelling 

message: Was Darul Islam against Pancasila? If I remember correctly, Kartosuwiryo (Darul Islam in West Java) rebelled because they disagree with Renville Agreement while Daud Bereuh (Darul Islam in Aceh) rebelled because Soekarno merged Aceh Province with North Sumatra Province.
I read somewhere, Daud Bereuh as representation of PUSA (Persatuan Ulama Seluruh Aceh / United of Aceh Ulama)decided to join Indonesia in 1945 because the first pillar of Pancasila Kunderemp 17:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darul Islam against Pancasila 

message: : On August 18 1945, the group that ratified the Constitution unanimously agreed that the term "Allah" (God) should be replaced by "Tuhan" (lord), a more general term which was supported by the Hindus (Saafroedin Bahar et al 1992:305)
Both Allah and Tuhan means God. The different is, Allah was usually identified to Muslim (and Christian) while Tuhan is a more general term and accepted by all Indonesian. Kunderemp 18:13, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Note that the Preamble and the religious version of the presidential oath (article 9) both use the word 'Allah'. Only article 29 and the part of the preamble defining Pancasila use the word 'Tuhan'. Davidelit 14:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I know. But the previous version was mistaken by diffentiating the translation of "Allah" and "Tuhan", while the former was translated to "God" (capital G) and the latter was translated to "lord" (small l). I change it so only Tuhan the word to be translated (to God with capital G) while "Allah" is untranslated (and let people who want to know the meaning can find it themselves by looking at the page Allah). Kunderemp 17:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allah and Tuhan 

message: Where does the article title "Pancasila Indonesia" come from? All the sources seem to just refer to it as just "Pancasila". Perhaps a move to Pancasila (politics) would be in order?—Nat Krause(Talk!) 02:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article title 

message: Indonesia's Pancasila uses Garuda as its symbol. I heard that there are some meanings proposed by the symbol itself. As far as I know, the number of feathers of Garuda represents the date of the declaration of Indonesian Independence (17 August 1945):
- The number of feathers for each wings is 17
- The number of feathers for tail is 8
- The number of feathers below the guard is 19
- The number of feathers for neck is 45
Is there any other meaning proposed by the symbol? especially for the five pictures on the guard.Celcius Chan 07:59, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: the bull is for democracy.. Kunderemp 15:37, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbol of Indonesia's Pancasila 

message: The article introduction states a number of opposites, e.g. internationalism vs. cosmopolitanism, or nationalism vs. chauvinism. But it never states what the difference between these terms is, in the context of Pancasila. I'm going to remove them; if someone wants to explain them properly, feel free to put them back in. --SJK (talk) 17:36, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distinguish internationalism vs. cosmopolitanism, etc. 

message: Something terrible seems to have gradually happened to this article. It seems to have slowly involved into a New-Orderish deep analysis of what is a formulation of a few dozen words. For example, why is there an entire section called "Philosophies of Pancasila"? Given that the introduction states that Pancasila is "the official philosophical foundation of the Indonesian state", then the section in question is about "philosophies of a philosophical foundation". And what is the section on "Development" all about, given that about the only changes were made between Sukarno's speech on 1 June 1945 and the finalization of the Constitution. Since then it hasn't changed, or er... developed. It seems to me that a more sensible organization of the article would be History - The five principles - Implementation (to include Sukarno's and Suharto's ways of ignoring or abusing Pancasila). I plan to be bold in the next few days, but thought I'd float my ideas on the talk page before going ahead. Any thoughts anyone? Davidelit (talk) 16:41, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. Bring out the razor. It all smells very WP:OR and WP:SYN. --Merbabu (talk) 02:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite needed? 

message: "Ketuhanan Yang Maha Esa" is translated as "Belief in one and only god".
I think it's mistranslated.
"Belief in one and only god" in Bahasa Indonesia is "PERCAYA kepada Tuhan Yang Maha Esa".
Tuhan is God.
Ketuhanan is the adjective form of God.
I suggest this phrase to be re-translated.
What is the adjective form of God in English? (Wisnuops (talk) 17:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no such word. Jpatokal (talk) 01:01, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the translation could be wrong. Wasn't Maha Esa the belief in the Supreme Being? Gryffindor (talk) 18:35, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Maha Esa literally means "most single or one".  Kamus Indonesia Inggris (An Indonesian-English Dictionary by John M. Echols and Hasan Shadily (Fifth impression, Gramedia, Jakarta, 1997 ) lists "Tuhan yang esa" as meaning "the one God". Indonesia 1999: An official Handbook, published by the Indonesian Department of Information translates the first sila as "Belief in the One and Only God" on page 43, while Indonesia 1962 published by the Department of Foreign Affairs has the expression "Belief in the One God" on page 17. I would therefore suggest that given these two government sources published 37 years apart, the existing translation is accurate.  Davidelit (Talk)  08:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  belief in one god?  

message: In some districts, government computers are programmed to only allow the "original" 5 religions on the KTP and KK, even though the paper forms for obtaining these ID documents have coded numbers for Confucianism and Lain-Lain as options for religion. Is there a way to mention this issue in the article? Anybody seen news articles or NGO reports that describe it authoritatively? Martindo (talk) 04:50, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  five and a half official religions? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This section seems to be a bit of a mess. It's been tagged for non-neutrality since 2013, is littered with  tags, the few references don't support the idea that any criticism of Pancasila warrants this much text and there is a whiff of WP:OR. There is no criticism of Pancasila in Indonesia (partly because it's illegal to do so) or outside (because nobody cares?). I think it would be best to drastically cut or simply delete the entire section, but I wanted to know if anybody had any objections. Please comment if you do. Regards  Davidelit (Talk)  08:01, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism section

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I accidentally reverted my edit, then re-reverted it, but the same dodgy mouse meant I didn't leave a proper edit summary...  Davidelit (Talk)  12:27, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  My 20 April 2019 edits 

message: I think Pancasila is a big tent ideology as it has socialist, nationalist and multicultarilistic (both liberal and socialist) values. But is it truly a big tent ideology? ChineseKid676 (talk) 12:41, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Big Tent Ideology? 

message: Ketuhanan yang Maha Esa (Belief in One creator) not god but creator
Kemanusiaan yang adil dan beradab (Just and civilized humanity) justice and ...
Persatuan Indonesia (The unity of Indonesia) one nation with one principle
Kerakyatan yang dipimpin oleh hikmat kebijaksanaan dalam permusyawaratan/perwakilan (Democracy guided by the inner wisdom in the unanimity arising out of deliberations among representatives) democracy with the people or society as one and unity to socialize with one ...
Keadilan sosial bagi seluruh rakyat Indonesia (Social justice for all of the people of Indonesia) 
maaf bila lancang namun sila ke satu dan dua bahasanya untuk inggris salah mohon maaf sebelumnya QuaMbear (talk) 14:14, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Semoga ke depannya negara kita semakin damai dan sejahtera, kebebasan beragama dan kemerdekaan serta hukum tidak tajam ke bawah... berkah selalu @QuaMbear QuaMbear (talk) 06:49, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  pancasila is not political, its a dharma and ideology