Talk:Saka

message: why is this saying population unknown? it should say population extinct. Hypothetically if sakas were still around this would be one of the oldest surviving ethnicitys in the world. 76.244.154.251 (talk) 12:51, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: they are not extinct. it's the slavs. the albanians are adressing the slavs as "shkja" which is a borrow therm from latin sclav, which is a borrow therm frim greek sclavinoi, which is a borrow therm from arab siklab, saqalibi or saka libi which means saka people.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.28.218.181 (talk) 20:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population unknown ? 

message: Is it possible that the Sakas - Scythians - are the same as the Sakya clan of 
Buddha Sakyamuni?--Xact (talk) 23:45, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No. About 1000 miles, and a large mountain range separated them. The similarity of the names is coincidence. There is no suggestion that the Buddha's people spoke a Turkic language or that there were any Turkic speaking people in Eastern India (ever AFAIK). Everything suggests that the Buddha spoke an Indo-European language. mahaabaala (talk) 17:23, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

text: The Sakas spoke an Indo-European language, although they were awfully far from the home of the Buddha 65.79.173.135 (talk) 20:02, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Sakya Clan? 

message: I have just been through the article removing the proliferation of academic titles - see: . In the process I made a number of other small edits - mainly spelling and grammar mistakes. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 10:46, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed academic titles as per Wikipedia Manual of Style

message: in the reference  Bailey mentions "The Khotan Saka language was replaced by Turkish from about 1000 of our era". However trhe article mentions (no reference given) that "Saka..resided in and migrated over the plains of Eurasia from Eastern Europe to Xinjiang Province, China, from the Old Persian Period to the Middle Persian Period when they were displaced by or integrated with Turkic language speakers during the Turkic migration.". Should we replace this?--Xashaiar (talk) 00:08, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.. Bailey by the way is the top scholaron Khotanese Saka and virtually translated/edited all existing texts.  It will be tough to fill in his shoe.. I think we should improve his own article also.--Nepaheshgar (talk) 18:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  date of replacement by Turkic language 

message: There has been a box for a long time now suggesting that the articles on Sakas and Indo-Scythians be merged and a request that this possible merger be discussed here. There has been absolutely no discussion so far. I am totally against the idea as many Saka tribes seem to have had nothing to do with India at all, and the term "Indo-Scythian" has been used very loosely for groups of people (such as the Kushans - to give just one example) of whom the origins are still being hotly debated. I propose, therefore, that unless there is a significant number of editors with referenced arguments in favour, that we remove the merge boxes on both articles sometime soon. Any comments? Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 21:54, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The merge request is not a good request: it is like asking Iranian languages be merged with Indo-Iranian languages. Yes they are related but should not be merged.Xashaiar (talk) 22:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Not quite. the Persians may have called them all "Saka", but other sources indicate that while the Saka were Scythians, not all Scythians were Saka. The article needed more focus though.--Joostik (talk) 00:24, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Such are the problems. The peoples under this name were or were dominated by Iranian speakers, which fact lends unity to the entire group from the Vistula to China. However, look at the range: thousands of miles. Even though they were mounted and nomadic, differences because of locality were bound to occur. The difference of names comes from the different viewpoints of the sources. In the west following the Greek model it was "Skythian." In the east it was "Saka." Even Herodotus recognized regional variants. We have two articles here on the same ethnic unity based on differences of name and location. From a pragmatic point of view, both articles are or will be fairly long. Why create an even longer article? Let's keep two articles based on difference of name and viewpoint. Naturally the topics will not always be distinct as the ethnic group itself lends unity. That does not offend me intellectually. Having to read through a gigantic article at one sitting, or finding my way through it, that would be most tedious. Oh by the way, hello dab, long time no see. You have managed to keep away from me all this time. End of aside. So here is what I would like to do. As the discussion is coming down on the side of two articles, remove the tag. I'll be back to work on this article later. If the tag is still there when I get back I will take it out. I think we are ready. Minority point of view, thank you for your concept. I think when you made it you did not realize the size of the topic.Dave (talk) 12:47, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: To merge or not to merge?

message: Contrary to the (unexplained) claim that there were differences were between "Saka" and "Scythians", the article actually contradicts that and suggests that the two words are virtually synonymous:
Thus the Behistun inscription mentions four divisions of Scythians,
*  the Saka paradraya "Scythians beyond the sea" of Sarmatia,
*  the Saka tigraxauda "Scythians with pointy hats",
*  the Saka haumavarga " haoma-worshipping Scythians" (Amyrgians) of the Pamir and
*  the Saka para Sugudam "Scythians beyond Sogdia" at the Jaxartes
Of these, the Saka tigraxauda were the Saka proper. The Saka paradraya were the western Scythians or Sarmatians, the Saka haumavarga and Saka para Sugudam were likely Scythian tribes associated with or split-of from the original Saka.
In which case, I would point out that at least some of the historical peoples concerned clearly equated Scythian, in both the generic and "proper" senses, with Saka.
Consequently, Saka therefore seems to breach the WP guideline against forking/splitting similar material, since the articles appear to be about synonyms (as if, e.g., we had full-length articles about both India and Bhārata.)
Therefore, should a vote be held, I would support the merger of Scythians and Saka. 
Grant | Talk 10:19, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Scythian and ''Saka'' are virtual synonyms

message: The Sanskrit name is शक which should be transliterated as śaka or shaka, not simply saka. mahaabaala (talk) 17:25, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we have to consider scholarly usage. Most books talk about the Saka. The western sources seem to have that. When you try to bring these names into English sometimes you have to accept some strange tongue-twisting, but that is true of any language. Some do have it the way you say. Most of us do not read Sanskrit. Until the last few years we have not had the character of the marked s. The issue seems to be whether to keep the anglicization or transliterate it. Any other suggestions?Dave (talk) 13:05, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sanskrit  

message: The current paragraph on language refers to Iranian - this appears to be vandalism.
These people were not Persian or Iranian.72.166.122.60 (talk) 02:15, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your comment. First, I do not see any vandals here, only persons trying to get it right - granted with a lot of blunders. I think we are all trying very hard not to bring current events into this article on antiquities. For purposes of the article, modern Iran does not yet exist, and we don't either. The term "Iranian" as applied to a language group in English does not mean specifically "of the modern nation of Iran." If you said "Iranian rug", the rug would be of Iran, or "Iranian woman", the woman would be of Iran; however, the linguists are adapting the term to mean something different: "a language of the same group as is spoken in Iran." Granted this usage introduces an ambiguity into English. In one breath you might be speaking of the actual Fars language; in another, any language of the group. Only context can get the right meaning across. Thanks.Dave (talk) 13:05, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: it should be called Persian. As it was much wider therm than just Iran, and saka people are a part of today's Germans, Greeks, Slavs, Caucasians etc. the science doesn't need to obey English way of looking at things.89.205.2.29 (talk) 14:38, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment on Iranian name 

message: This is a very condensed article. I think it could use a little more infrastructure and some expansion. It reminds me of 1911 to some degree. It wouldn't hurt to do an Internet search on some of the phrases just to make sure the writing is in fact distinct from its sources. There is a huge note in it. I would expand that area, breaking the big note up into smaller ones. It is, so to speak, a note for text not yet in the article. Why not put it in? Thanks.Dave (talk) 13:21, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: More infrastructure

message: The scythians spanned all over eurasia as did the turks, russians and british. So why is a "history of Afghanistan" timeline put on there? Are the Scythians exclusively Afghan history?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.227.90.213 (talk) 05:08, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  history of afghanistan 

message: I started trying to do some minor edits today (italicising book titles, adding citation needed tags, toning down excessive claims, etc.) but soon realised some major work needs to be done to make (in particular) the section on Plato and note 23 not only grammatically correct but more accurate. The identification of the Kambojas with groups mentioned in Western Classical sources is by no means generally accepted and the article, I believe, should indicate this. However, I have little time to spare at the moment. Is there someone else who could take on this task, please? John Hill (talk) 22:25, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Serious editing badly needed

message: it is obvious if Saka people were proto Turkic people, this article says if Turks appeared from no where!
unfortunately there are a lot of anti Turkic propaganda in wikipedia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.164.109.112 (talk) 11:00, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any reliable sources? Please note that this page is not for general discussion of the article subject, per the boxes at the top of it. - Sitush (talk) 10:24, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I imagine they are referring to the modern Siberian Turkic tribe that is known as Saka.  They indeed claim descent from ancient Saka, and who knows, perhaps rightfully so.  The thing is, Saka early in its history apparently became a multi-ethnic and multi-lingual designation for a widespread geography.  The Saka rulership often had all kinds of nomadic peoples crossing into their nominal governance, which was over a very large region. Thus there are members of many other language families besides Turkic that also claim descent from ancient Saka. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 11:26, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not massively familiar with the multitude of claims to Scythian, Aryan, Turkic etc descent that pop up across India-related articles. I am happy to consider anything if there are decent sources but I am aware that there will probably be more than one valid opinion & my lack of familiarity may cause me to inadvertently omit/ignore the alternate views. Bearing that in mind, it looks like you might be a useful contact both here and elsewhere! - Sitush (talk) 11:54, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

text:  Ethnogenesis and language are not the same. The Yakuts who call themselves Saxa (pronounced Sakha) may very well be the descendants of the ancient Sakas. But only because they speak a language of the Turkic family today, it does not mean that their ancestors also spoke that language. This claim can easily be countered by the fact, that there are a few Pashtun tribes who collectively call thmselves Sakzi, meaning "[of the tribe] of the Saka". And they speak an East Iranian language which is - by all scholarly evidence available - related to the Saka language. Related Saka groups moved into a wide region near the Gulf of Oman that later became known as Sakastan, "Land of the Saka" (today known as Sistan which derives from "Sakastan"). Also, just to name another example, the modern Bulgarians who are a Slavic people derive their national identity from the medieval Bulgars, a Turkic-speaking (perhaps with an older Indo-Iranian origin). Only because there is a Slavic group today that calls itself "Bulgar", it does not mean that the medieval Bulgars were also Slavic. This is a popular claim in Bulgaria (where the people are usually anti-Turkic due to centuries of Ottoman overlordship), but it is pseudo-scientific. The claim that the Scythians were a Turkic people is also a politically motivated and pseudo-scientific claim popular in Turkey, but it is generally rejected by scholars outside of Turkey. Even though there are not many sources available, it is absolutely clear that the Saka and the Scythians as a whole were not related to the later Turko-Mongol nomads - neither genetically nor linguistically. However, it was the Scythian ethos that later inspired and influenced many other nomadic groups, including Turko-Mongols and Slavs. Many of these later tribal unions adopted Scythian traditions and way of life. --Lysozym (talk) 06:51, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbitrary heading: proto-Turkic people

message: This is very romantic and cool and all but only a small percentage of any people are warriors and even they spend most of their time not as warriors but as people. 65.79.173.135 (talk) 20:05, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  They were nomadic warriors roaming the steppes of modern-day Kazakhstan. 

message: I state: Anglo-Saxons, quintessential "Western Europeans", DO NOT anciently bear ANY relation to the SACARAUCAE. Moreover, SACARAUCAE is NOT corrupted Chinese for Tocharian-kindred antecessor "pre-Westerners" - reemphasizing, SACARAUCAE and SAKARAULOI are NOT cognate ethnonyms. NOT. Saxon tribal origins lie NOT THEREABOUTS.
Wu-sun Alan ethnic nuclei enjoy NO ROLE of FORMATIVE CREATION in Saxon origins - above all, Saxon is not related to Sistan, Iran. Sistan was NEVER named SAKESTAN after the then-dominant tribal group ruling - NEVER.
Or: Key-most perhaps, Odin is NOT related to Central Asian, Trans-Caucasian regional lands. Odin is from an Evolian alter-verse of the North Pole, simply dropping down to earth through an unexplained space-time tear. 
When Snorri wrote "TYRKLAND" and "ASALAND" and "ASGARD" as identical to "TROY OF PRIAMUS", and such idiocy, we must simply realize the Edda and Snorri etc. are schizophrenic. Saxons and all Western Nordic and Nordic-affiliated folk are mysteriously autochthonous, simple as that without question...
The article serves nicely in omitting the Gokturk, Sogdian "MONGOL" runes - fratricide between Western and Eastern Aryans is judicious, RASSENKAMPF inevitable: blood-race difference is essentialist, is the main idea - Westerners and Easterners should be murderously engaged in warfare per present-day Anglo-Saxon/Anglo-American and Judeo-Zionist interests (I assume identical to Wiki-interests, right?)... Gumplowiczian sociological science knows RASSENKAMPF is unavoidable, racial division is foreordained, etc. This Hebrew maestro of sociology is given no credit today, oddly. "DER RASSENKAMPF" should be required reading for all Israelis and Americans and those not of Amalekite-Canaanite bastardy and subhuman genome. 
The Saxon olden matrix is NOT related to Sangsar or Sag(a)sar, the modern Persian (Iranian/"Aryan") area: Saxons originated NOT as distant cousins of Irano-Parthian "ORIENTAL SWARTS" - etc. The omissions and scholarly duplicity here are sublime!
The Wu-Sun, the Shakya groupuscles etc. - belong only in Sinology. NOT related to the initial formative nuclei of "Saxon" blood - EMPHATICALLY. 
AGAIN: NO RELATION BETWEEN IRANIAN PARTHIAN-affiliated clannish entities and the purely West-born, grandly Caucasian Saxon breed, the Weberian "ideal-type" "Caucasian"... Well, second to the true Israeli Jewish of COHEN MODAL HAPLO-TYPE, I correct myself... 
Wikipedia, march on!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:B34B:A940:7D57:797D:B38E:2C64 (talk) 05:16, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hint to Wikipedians on Anglo-Saxon ethnogenesis 

message: Hello, PericlesofAthens. I see you've been working quite a bit on the article. I'm not here to comment on the content of the article. Instead, I thought I'd ask you about the formatting of the lead. I see the second paragraph is indented. The indentation makes it look like the second paragraph is a block quote, which would be unusual in a lead section. Since I didn't look at your edits closely, I do not know if you indented that paragraph or not, but I thought I'd point it out rather than interfere in your on-going work on the article. If that paragraph is not a block quote, then it shouldn't be indented from the left margin. Best regards,  – Corinne (talk) 14:38, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, Corinne. Although I have been adding lots of material to this article, you're actually talking to the wrong guy for this particular occasion. I am not the one who originally added that block quote to the intro. That existed before I ever touched this article. You'd probably have to go back quite a ways in the article history tab to find out who exactly added it to the intro. If they made it a block quote, that seems odd, because they did not bother citing the name of the person beforehand, i.e. Rene Grousset (1970). I do not have access to that book and have no means of confirming or verifying if it is a direct quote given verbatim from the cited pages (pp 29-31) or simply a summary of his material on those pages. I wish you or anyone else the best of luck in figuring out how to resolve that, because I don't have the patience to hunt down the books used by others. Cheers. Pericles of AthensTalk 17:02, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your reply, PericlesofAthens.  Can you help?  – Corinne (talk) 17:38, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, my suggestion would be to just use the same source and page numbers and everything, but completely reword everything from that block quote, just to be sure. Rewording something is totally fine so long as the original message is not lost or warped. That way you can keep the citation and the information while getting rid of the awkward-looking block quote floating around aimlessly in the introduction (like a ship lost at sea, with a broken rudder and shipwrecked crew that can't remember the name of their dead captain, lol). Pericles of AthensTalk 17:53, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, user:Hzh, you did a really superb job reorganizing the material I added to the article. I didn't think to move it into the main history section. The article reads and flows very well now! Cheers. Pericles of AthensTalk 05:02, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi Corinne! I assume you mean help with tracking down the quote? It does indeed appear to be a direct quote from p. 29. I would simply incorporate the elements of the quote in the lede, as User:PericlesofAthens suggests. What Grousset says in the quote is already mostly there in the lede, either way. Constantine   ✍  09:50, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Constantine! That settles it, then. Perhaps I'll even take a whack at it before Corinne does, but we'll see. It shouldn't be too hard to parse down and summarize, the bits that are useful at least. The lead should perhaps be expanded a little bit as well to reflect the new material that's been added to the article. Pericles of AthensTalk 10:04, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

text: Well, I got rid of the block quote! I basically just summarized what he said in one pithy sentence. All is well, yet the intro could perhaps use some sprucing up, as I've alluded to, with a little expansion to better reflect the material in the article as it stands now. Pericles of AthensTalk 16:05, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting of lead 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: And now, in that way almost all of Epirus, Hellada, the Peloponnese and Macedonia have also been settled by the Skiti-Slavs. (from Strabonos Epitomathus) C.Muller, geographi graeci minores, Paris 1882 p574.89.205.59.137 (talk) 20:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: skiti-slavs