Talk:Dubingiai

message: With 260 inhabitants it sounds more like a village to me...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  16:04, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A "fortified" village (whatever it means). --Lysytalk 16:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a town. Lithuania has this city - town - village classification, and most of the time it's all based on history and not present-day population. The smallest offcial city has only 325 residents. Renata 01:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, then this one with 260 would be the smallest, wouldn't it?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  02:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, three different things: 1. cities (miestas, 103 as in the list), 2. towns (miestelis, ca. 235), and all sorts of 3. villages (kaimas). Very clear classification. Dubingiai is a miestelis, therefore a town. Renata 02:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Town or village 

message: Is there a monument or are the victims commemorated in another way in the village ? --Lysytalk 20:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A monument 

message: Would it be possible to provide exact page numbers in the Lithuanian references ? Right now the page ranges span whole chapters of individual authors. --Lysytalk 05:26, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lithuanian references 

message: I have removed the number of victims of the massacre in order to avoid the need for a longer discussion in this article. This is discussed in detail in Dubingiai massacre. Various numbers are given by different authors and should not be quoted without proper explanation of what they mean. Most authors give the number of victims in range of 20-27. The two hundred is not the number of the victims in Dubingiai but an estimate of the total number of victims in a number of towns and villages, span over longer timeframe, and executed by a number of different units. This number does not really belong to the article about Dubingiai but is explained in Dubingiai massacre. --Lysytalk 13:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Provided explanations not merit justification of removal up to date encyclopedic information. Provided "argument" that most authors give 20-27, should be noted that it refer to Polish authors. So by using this argument basic POV line is not met. Contributors are not in position do denounce at least Lithuanian historiography tradition, which regard that under Dubingiai name there were number of  200 victims and similar. Number of killed civilians must be presented without doubt. Looking to the Paneriai, which gives not even unbalanced by NOV killed people but also encompassing  several year (!) developments, which was carried out not even by different units but also by different ethic people, including and Poles. And yet again removal of enciclopedic information solely driven by only one contributors POV is not justify. In regards I will restore this information, do not remove this information again, until clear consensus on talk is reached among different contributors (and not only by Polish editors) to include numbers or not, however you are free to add apropriate tag on article main page, if needed. M.K. 14:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You have first to show that Lithuanian historiography differs. You have failed to do so, thus Lysy's version, as more NPOV, should remain.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  14:47, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ? What? I presented the source; you presented your own speculation. What contributors should be trusted - a personal driven POV or source. I choose source, as WP policies required.  M.K. 11:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Exactly this situation could been avoided if before making almost fork article Dubingiai massacre, you placed splitting tag to demonstrate good editing practices and wait for others to make input. This was not done.  Exactly this situation would be avoided if before reducing article forking  was asked on article talk which info to leave or which remove. This was not done. So it is not surprisingly that article was adjusted to certain POV frame rather then NPOV version as required. Not surprisingly.  M.K. 11:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, I think we should note the most common numbers: correct me if I am wrong, but the 20-27 range of victims in the village is not often questioned, is it? Any wider estimates, with their relevant time/place/POV issues, do indeed belong only to the detailed subarticle.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  17:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Explanation of Lysy's removal of the number of victims of the massacre 

message: Is there a monument or other commemoration of the victims of the massacre in Dubingiai ? --Lysytalk 13:30, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commemoration 

message: What is the source for the 200 victims? Who or what is "Panorama" (some kind of magazine? Who wrote the article, how reliable is the magazine and article's author)? Our previous numbers were 20-27 in the village, and 70-100 elsewhere around that period.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  15:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can we discuss this in Talk:Dubingiai massacre please ? --Lysytalk 16:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Perhaps we should move all threads related to that event there, leaving notices here?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  17:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  200 victims? 

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thread_title:  External links modified