Talk:Scarsdale, New York

message: __TOC__
--Maerklin44 (talk) 17:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

message: :I don't have anything beyond my personal observations, so I can't put the material in the article. I don't think "strip mall" is appropriate, because although I don't know when Harwood Court was built, it is mentioned in a 1939 New York Times article. A quick search of the New York Times shows the first use of the phrase "strip mall" in an article occurred in 1986, i.e. the term was not used at the time the building was built. It is a substantial four-story building in what I guess you would have to call downtown Scarsdale, close to the train station, with retail shops on the ground floor and business offices on the upper floors. There was also an arcade running through the ground floor, with shops off of the arcade. It was a common location for professional offices of doctors, dentists, and lawyers.Dpbsmith (talk) 19:58, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Has there really been a push for non-Scarsdale 10583 residents to disassociate themselves with Scarsdale? Where I live (lower Garth Road) it seems nobody even knows it's technically Eastchester!
*Nobody knows?  Where the heck do you send property taxes?  Nelson Ricardo 17:23, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
**I guess they know that Eastchester has some significance to them, but still honestly think their "town" is "Scarsdale".
***I frankly doubt the accuracy of this part of the article. I'd almost be inclined to remove it unless someone can cite a good source, but have been holding back since I don't live in the area. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Scarsdale Zip Code

message: I'm snipping this. If someone has a good verifiable reference for it they can put it back (citing that reference). 
:Even though the town is not mentioned in the song “Get Back”, JoJo lived in Edgemont a part of Scarsdale New York and that is where he met Linda Eastman who lived in Scarsdale and went to Scarsdale High School and they eventually got married. Paul McCartney then wrote this song telling JoJo to get back from his girl.
According to the Linda McCartney Centre, 
:Linda's first husband was Mel who she met while attending college at the University of Arizona in Tucson. The marriage was short-lived and it produced a daughter named Heather. (Mel tragically committed suicide in March 2000 at the age of 62.) Linda and Mel's divorce was reportedly amicable...
The lyrics to "Get Back" refer to Tucson as well:
:Jojo left his home in Tucson, Arizona
:For some California grass.
This should not be resomeone has evidence that they actually met in Scarsdale, rather than Tucson. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:52, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Get Back" reference 

message: I'm removing the recently added phrase "with a large Jewish population" from the sentence
:Scarsdale is both a town and village in Westchester County, New York, USA with a large Jewish population. As of the 2000 census, its population was 17,823.
for three reasons. First, it does not cite a source. Second, it is not appropriate for the lead sentence. Third, it has no context and it is not clear why the "large" Jewish population is of interest. A well-sourced paragraph or table detailing the breakdown of Scarsdale's population by faith would be perfectly appropriate, and should probably go in the "demographic" section. 
Parenthetically, in a suburb of New York City, the presence of an active Quaker meeting is probably more unusual and hence more worthy of note than the presence of Jews. I believe Christian Scientists and Mormons are also represented. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:17, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious composition 

message: These items are unsourced and their wording makes them sound pretty dubious, so I'm moving them here. Do not reinsert without good source citations. As always, urban legends and local tales need not be true, but a published source saying that they exist as legends must be cited. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:13, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsourced items

message: Deep in the historic background of Scarsdale is a romantic twist of fate. In 1666 during Charles the Second's reign, a sixth son Caleb was born in the family of Mayor Heathcote of Chesterfield in the Hundred of Scarsdale, Derbyshire, England. Some twenty-six years later, after his intended wife had transferred her affections to one of his older brothers, a disappointed Caleb Heathcote took his patrimony and set sail for New York. Prospering in trade, he soon became one of the leading men of the colony and began to buy up land in Westchester. At the end of the century he purchased from Ann Richbell the claims her husband had established to land running nine miles back from Long Island Sound to the Bronx River and averaging two miles in width. Shortly thereafter he purchased the Fox Meadow from the Indian chiefs, among whom was Cohawney, and then acquired a bit more land to the south along the Bronx River, rounding out his holdings to the town line in Eastchester.
In 1701 Caleb, who had become influential in the government of the province, had these lands elevated into a royal manor. He named the area Scarsdale after his ancestral home. Since the English name meant "dale of scars or rocks," it was appropriate here as it was there. Scarsdale was one of nine royal manors of New York, six of which were in Westchester County. The first population count taken in 1712 listed 12 people, seven of whom were slaves. After Caleb's death in 1721, the land was inherited by his two daughters. In 1774 the manor was broken up, and the tenants became the proprietors. Scarsdale became a town by the law of March 7, 1788.
During the American Revolution, both the Continental and British armies passed through parts of Scarsdale. After a brief battle near the junction of modern Mamaroneck and Garden Roads, General Sir William Howe spent some time in the Griffen farmhouse. The house still stands, identified by a bronze marker. Tradition has it that the Varian house, now known as Wayside, was the scene of a fracas when Tory marauders tried to find the family cow which had been locked in the house. A generation later James Fenimore Cooper, who had married a great grand-daughter of Caleb Heathcote and at that time lived on the Angevine Farm on Mamaroneck Road, gave the story of those turbulent days a permanent place in literature. Deeply impressed with reminiscent tales he had heard from the aged John Jay, Cooper, while living in Scarsdale, wrote The Spy, which became the first American novel.
At the time of the first federal census in 1790, Scarsdale's six and one-half square miles held 281 inhabitants. Fifty years later that figure had declined slightly so that in 1840 Scarsdale had 255 residents, and all but four of its adult men worked as farmers or farm workers. Lacking access to navigable waterways, Scarsdale fell behind the towns that bordered Long Island Sound and the Hudson River.
The town's fortunes improved, however, after 1846 when the New York and Harlem Railroad (later a division of the New York Central) began service in the Bronx River Valley. As New York City grew and became more crowded, more and more residents of the city who could afford the cost of commuting began to consider living elsewhere. During this period of the 1850s Scarsdale included a post office, a livery, a school, and two churches, in addition to the all-important stop on the railroad. Although several houses were located near the train station, there were no stores, no street lamps, and no paved streets. To the east and north of the station stood the community's farms along with the estates of a few wealthy residents who had moved into the suburbs.
It was the Arthur Suburban Home Company that initiated the change from a rural town to a residential suburb. In 1891 it purchased a 150-acre farm and turned it into a row of one-family houses. Covenants included in every sale prevented the use of any lot for commerce.
By 1900, the population stood at 885, and Scarsdale, as we know it, began to appear. In 1904, the Heathcote Association, the first Neighborhood Association, and the Town Club, the predecessor of the Town and Village Civic Club, were formed.
The Scarsdale Woman's Club was organized in 1918 and one year later (til here see https://www.scarsdalehistoricalsociety.org/brief-history-of-scarsdale) bought (https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/27scarsdalewe.html) and
(?CopyVio? cont'd) began publishing The Scarsdale Inquirer. For the next forty years this prize winning paper was owned, managed and staffed by women. In 1921 the Scarsdale League of Women Voters was formed and began meeting as part of the Public Affairs committee of the Scarsdale Woman's Club. The Town's first store opened in 1912 at the corner of Popham and Garth Roads. Scarsdale High School and Greenacres Elementary School were built in 1917, Edgewood in 1918. In order to prevent Greenacres from being annexed by White Plains, Scarsdale was incorporated as a Village in 1915. (A village may only be annexed by a vote of its citizens; the boundaries of a Town may be changed by the State Legislature.) The population then was almost 3,000.
The Twenties saw a building boom that tripled the population by the end of the decade to 9,690. The Bronx River Parkway, the first parkway in the country, was opened in 1924. New stores and banks opened on East Parkway and Popham Roads. Fox Meadow and Crane-Berkley were developed. Heathcote's "Five Corners" thrived, although the New York, Westchester and Boston Railroad, around which it had been built, did not survive. Fox Meadow Elementary School was built in 1928. Many of the Tudor-style houses and business fronts date from this period. In 1922 the Village Board adopted a Village-wide zoning plan, the first zoning law passed in New York State by a suburban community. Court challenges to the code have been met successfully, and Scarsdale has remained primarily a residential community of single-family detached houses.
Another building boom occurred after World War II. The area that experienced the greatest development was Quaker Ridge, which derived its name from its early Quaker settlers. Quaker Ridge Elementary School opened in 1947, Heathcote in 1953 and the Junior High School (now the Middle School) in 1956. The Village and School Districts purchased land for both public use and open space. Major strides in community recreation included public tennis and paddle courts, public day camps, a swimming pool complex and a vast array of programs. Now the Village appears to have entered a new era of relative population stability as a result of the almost complete development of its privately owned land. Scardale's 1990 population was approximately 17,000.
Scarsdale residents have enjoyed success in many fields. James Fenimore Cooper, mentioned earlier, wrote The Spy. Daniel D. Tompkins, five times Governor of New York(1807-1815) and twice Vice President of the United States, was born here. Other Scarsdale residents include distinguished scholars and artists, university presidents, a Nobel prize winner, state senators, members of Presidential cabinets, an astronaut, a New York State Commissioner of Education and presidents of large corporations. Many residents have given and continue to give their time and talents to serve Scarsdale by accepting positions as Mayor, Village and School Board members and as leaders of over 80 organizations.
::: Scarsdale Inquirer began c. 1901-1902; see https://www.nytimes.com/1968/10/19/archives/humphrey-ticket-endorsed-by-the-scarsdale-inquirer.html Pi314m (talk) 01:42, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: I have never heard of the Cotswald neighborhood--where is it located?  Further, the article implies that each of the neighborhoods on this list is served by an elementary school, but no such school exists.  If there is such a neighborhood, the section should at least be reworded to clarify that there are five elementary schools and six neighborhoods with Cotswald being the one that is not served by a separate school.Schn0529 (talk) 16:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Cotswald is located in Edgemont, which is located in Greenburgh.  While it is in the Scarsdale PO it is not in the village/town of Scarsdale.  Cotswald should not be listed under neighborhoods in Scarsdale. FearNotMan (talk) 21:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neighborhoods? 

message: Does anyone know why the following sentence was removed?
With a median household income of $219,317, Scarsdale is second on Money Magazine's 25 top-earning towns.[2]
This is arguably one of the defining characteristics of the town, and certainly an interesting enough fact to warrant it being in the first few paragraphs.  I've checked the source and the citation was accurate.Schn0529 (talk) 16:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as it is accurate I see no problem with it, and it probably should be included.  If someone has a problem with it, at the very least it should mention the Money Magazine honor without the income number. FearNotMan (talk) 18:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top Money-Earning Towns 

message: I have watched this number repeated changed between 17k and 54k.  Given the large discepancy I looked it up.  According to census.gov in 2000 the population was 17,823 for Scarsdale village.  FearNotMan (talk) 19:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: http://censtats.census.gov/data/NY/1603665431.pdf
I think the descrepancy arises because the town of scarsdale and village of scarsdale--with a (shared) population of 17k--are coterminus; it seems that some assume that these are two separate populations, which would double the figure.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.215.231.191 (talk) 06:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Census Data 

message: Some quick checking, e.g. a search of the Boston Public Library catalog online, a check of the used bookseller www.abebooks.com online, a search for "Downes Press" Boston in Google on the Web and in Google Books, turns up no evidence of such a book or such a publisher. I'm afraid I want a better reference. I'm particularly troubled by not being able even to find the publisher.
Is there a typo in the name of the publisher or something like that? 
What is the author's full name?  Dpbsmith (talk) 20:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rock of Perth, "Cooper's History," "Downes Press"

message: I'm moving two items here for discussion. They should not be reinserted unless good references are provided.
* Cemetery at St. James the Less Episcopal Church.  In the crypt in this seminary is a secret room where southern slaves were hidden on their journey to Canada in the "Underground Railroad" which was active during the American Civil War.  Also in this cemetery are the remains of unknown slaves of the era.
Quick searching suggests that Quakers in Scarsdale may have participated in the Underground Railroad, but I couldn't find any confirmation of a role for St. James the Less.
* The Rock of Perth. Located in the original stone wall which surrounded a farm on the edge of the Fox Meadow neighborhood, the Rock of Perth was brought to America by Caleb Heathcote one of the early settlers of Scarsdale.  This rock was taken from his ancestral home in England and placed in the wall.  The wall runs behind residences which face both Overhill Road and Lockwood Road. -	Excerpted from Cooper’s History of Lower Westchester County.
Downes Press, Boston, Massachusetts, 1936
I could not find any evidence of such a publisher, let alone of such a book. Searches of online catalogs of big libraries, or the abebooks used book site, didn't turn up anything. And I couldn't find anything confirming that Overhill Road and Lockwood Road are in the Fox Meadow neighborhood. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:09, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Locations 

message: *Jacob Greenberg, contemporary of Nechamkin. Created the prelude to Einstein's theory of relativity.
*"Jay Gandelman", Head of the Science Olympiad at Scarsdale Middle School
No references provided, and Wikipedia has no articles on them. Are these notable people? If so, could we have some references supporting their notability? Dpbsmith (talk) 21:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This page and the page for the local Scarsdale high school have been vandalized repeatedly the last few days. I'm sure this is another bit of thatPhilatio (talk) 02:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Jacob Greenberg; Jay Gandelman

message: If it is really relevant at all, it does not belong under the 'Events' heading:
What the New York Times termed a "homecoming bacchanal" made regional news in 2002 and sent five students to the hospital with acute alcohol poisoning. Reportedly scores of students arrived drunk at the dance, some so drunk that they vomited in the principal's wastebasket and passed out on his floor. Twenty-eight of them received suspensions. The New York Times said the incident evoked "soul-searching" in "this iconic suburb, which prides itself on giving children every advantage." Principal John Klemme told student government leaders that "the world is taking a perverse pleasure in Scarsdale's humiliation" and challenged them to "reclaim your school."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philatio (talk • contribs) 19:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'm not sure what would be a good subhead, but I've used "The 2002 Homecoming Bacchanal." It was a significant event; I don't think Scarsdale High School gets mentioned in The New York Times all that often. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that I heard about it on the radio in either national or New England-regional news (I live about 200 miles from New York). (In point of fact, I personally think it's great that they had enough sense not to drive and that nobody got seriously hurt). Dpbsmith (talk) 02:16, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Text that needs to be moved

message: Recently added:
**Beyonce and Jay-Z, singer/actress and music mogul just built a house in Scarsdale.  They recently were married (2008) and got their marriage license in Scarsdale.  
Interesting if true, but the cited source just shows a picture of a house and says it's Beyonce's. The author is not named. Whoever posted the picture doesn't give any reason to believe it's Beyonces, and other posted comments express skepticism. I think we need a better source. Dpbsmith (talk) 19:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Beyonce's house

message: The Scarsdale Public Library article has no third-party sources or apparent notability. The information can easily be merged into a sentence in this article's paragraph on the library, as:
Let me know what you all think. --ɱ (talk) 10:19, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge discussion 

message: I see this topic has come up before, but I'm starting anew.  I suppose it shouldn't be a problem to state the fact that Scarsdale regularly appears on one list or another as a "wealthy" town of some sort, but this topic is raised no less than three times in the current article, 1) in the opening, 2) in discussing the school district and 3) in the demographics section.  In my opinion, a discussion of wealth is essentially crass and it would be far more constructive to cite something like "best place(s) to live", but as I mentioned above, if its factual and others believe it's an important thing to relay to Wikipedia's audience, so be it.  However, must it be mentioned three times?  Do we think the point couldn't be made clear with one mention?  Assuming the intent in making these edits was benign, then I understand the satisfaction and pride people take in the place they live and the success that these rankings connote, but at some point, it's just makes people seem like braggarts.  I'd like to edit, but thought I should seek some opinions first.  ButtonwoodTree (talk) 17:59, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree entirely, mentioning it three times is excessive.--ɱ (talk) 14:49, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It shouldn't be mentioned at all without reference, IMHO, and I think the one place to mention it would be in demographics, with a reference to a comparative listing of town's wealth. John from Idegon (talk) 20:18, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well we can remove the school and lead wealth information and that should be fine, no? The demographics section is fine and still cites a decent source.--ɱ (talk) 21:36, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks all.  Based upon the three comments, I will revise.  Appreciate the input.  ButtonwoodTree (talk) 13:39, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wealthiest Towns. . . 

message: I see absolutely no utility in having a listing (unreferenced at that) of the location of the fire houses and the apparatus stationed at each one. Wikipedia is not a directory, right?  Wikipedia is not a collection of random information.  I'd bet 95% of the people in the world don't even know the difference between a fire truck and a fire engine, so who does it serve to list this stuff?  Another editor contended that this info is common on settlement articles and I strongly disagree with that.  It is rare, and for a reason.  It isn't information that serves to inform the target audience, which is the entire English speaking world.  The one group of people settlement articles are NOT to be directed to are the locals, which, along with a very small percentage of the world's population that are fire buffs, are the only conceivable audience for that material.  Bill in Boise or Ben in Bhopal are not even going to be able to relate to the addresses, so again, why include them?  I would never look in Wikipedia to find the address for anything, save possibly a main contact adress for the subject of the article.
Adding a bunch of trivial information lowers the usefulness of the article to the readers.  It is just a bunch of crap to wade through to find what they are really looking for. 
Additionally, including this overly detailed information in some but not all articles only serves to confuse our readers. "How come I can find where Scarsdale keeps their ladder trucks and not Buffalo?"  It would be an impossible task to provide this info on all settlement articles accurately, as equipment assignments change and different municipalities keep and release different levels of records. John from Idegon (talk) 18:48, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Fire department content

message: Personally, I find it an interesting fact that Scarsdale is both a village and a town, does that really need to be in the lead?  Couldn't/shouldn't, we have a section on government, where we explain this unique feature, describe the mayor, village manager, etc.  It seems to me that the lead should have some common facts about the village, like location, year founded, population, proximity to New York, and maybe reference to whatever the town is most famous or notable for.  I don't think its form of government is its most notable feature.  ButtonwoodTree (talk) 11:08, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This is common and expected on municipal articles, yeah. Those other common facts are definitely to be expected, feel free to add to the article as you see fit! ɱ (talk) · vbm  · coi) 13:16, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead Paragraph

message: @Drmies, Magnolia677, and Anonymous453434567, I'm opening this talk page discussion because there is some disagreement over whether these recent edits by Anonymous453434567 should remain in the article. I am going to copy what I said on Drmies's talk page:
*
*
Hopefully, we can clarify whether the disputed content should remain in this article. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: There have been numerous disputes as to whether to include statements that a municipality is wealthy or affluent or some similar description, and they have almost always been decided  against retaining such descriptions, as being non-neutral and undue weight.  My opinion is that the paragraphs in question are no exception.  Robert McClenon (talk) 21:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: This junk should be removed for many reasons. For similar reasons, we don't add "lack of wealth" or "slums" paragraphs to the worst poor communities either. Stating the average income of a city in the demographics section is fine, as long as it isn't worded in a peacock/fluffy/bragging manor.  • Sbmeirow • Talk • 21:21, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, at this RFC there was a rough consensus to also keep words such as "affluent" or "poor" out of the ledes of cities and towns articles. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:29, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

text:  Adding this puffery to the lede or creating a section on these rankings doesn't inform us about the community except that wealthy people have managed to gather together. Wealth, poverty, or some other indicator will be evident in a well written article without putting it in the lede. These ranking articles rarely go to any depth about the community except what some statistics show. While these pieces are easily produced and commonly used to draw eyeballs to a publication, they don't belong as citations in an encyclopedia; nor does the content based on them. Fettlemap (talk) 04:23, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

text: There is no consensus that the section on wealth should be removed. Firstly, it has been present in the Scarsdale Wiki page for many years. Secondly, the town's association with wealth is a defining characteristic of the municipality, as evidenced by many sources. Thirdly, this representation is consistent with what is present on the pages of other wealthy towns such as @Atherton, @Bronxville, etc. Anonymous453434567 (talk) 13:13, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Consensus is fairly clear. Note that consensus does not mean unanimity. If you want to keep this content you're going to need the support of other editors. What is happening on some other article is immaterial - it may well be that those articles need to be changed rather than this one. MrOllie (talk) 13:16, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

text: That different cities share the same ZIP code is trivial; it happens all the time in thousands of US cities.  I even told you this on your talk page. ZIP codes have no relation to city boundaries, per this source. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:20, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a fair point. However, this phenomenon is less common in the Northeast of the United States and is therefore a source of considerable confusion. In Westchester in particular, in towns where the Zip Code contains areas/population that greatly exceed that of the actual municipality, it is noted on their wikipedia pages. See @bronxville as an example. Also, if you scroll up you can see that this topic was discussed many years ago and decided that it was an important piece of information for the page. Anonymous453434567 (talk) 13:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It's common throughout most of the Northeast. Just look at a zipcode map of CT, ME, RI, NH, etc. MrOllie (talk) 13:21, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Accusing other editors of vandalism is not going to help keep your preferred version of the article over the consensus of other editors on this talk page. MrOllie (talk) 01:46, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

text: That's not true at all in CT as an example. Also, see previous Talk sections titled "Scarsdale Zip Code" twice. This has been debated in the past and settled. Anonymous453434567 (talk) 01:57, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Those sections are more than 15 years old, and do not bind our hands today. MrOllie (talk) 02:51, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Noting here that Anonymous453434567 is now indef blocked for sockpuppetry and probably won't be continuing this discussion. MrOllie (talk) 03:05, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wealthiest towns, ZIP Codes, etc.