Talk:String Quartet No. 14 (Schubert)

message: Schubert? why is the impromptu so significant? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.112.222 (talk) 15:37, 12 September 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: *I was listening to the Grosse Fuge and Death and the Maiden came to mind.  Has anybody compared the two?--user:hillgentleman ([[user talk:hillgentleman|talk])] 13:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schubert versus Beethoven 

message: The article implies that the entire theme in the second movement comes from the lied.  If i remember correctly, eight of its twenty-four bars are new material.  I'll try to look it up and post sources tomorrow.
NeverWorker (talk) 07:40, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second movement theme 

message: I'd always assumed that the title was inspired by the Greek myth about Hades' kidnapping Persephone and taking her to the underworld. No? Ifnkovhg (talk) 22:35, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have never seen that in anything written about the quartet. The subject of Death and the Maiden runs through literary and artistic history, certainly since the Persephone myth, but I don't think that myth had any specific influence on Schubert. It was Claudius's poem that Schubert set to music that was the direct inspiration. --Ravpapa (talk) 06:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  re: Inspiration 

message: I hate "citation needed" tags, so I'm putting this here. The statement in the lead "...is one of the pillars of the chamber music repertoire" seems a bit POV, so a citation would be useful. Ditto for the claim "... it is Schubert's testament to death". Manning (talk) 08:22, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe these statements are amply supported by citations in the body of the article - for example, the quote from Robert Schumann, the other citations and facts in the "Reception" section. As for the "testament to death", it is extensively supported by citations of the numerous analysts in the Analysis section and in the Inspiration section. It seems a bit artificial to add a citation for a general thesis-type statement in the lead which is merely a summary of the entire article.
For someone familiar with the subject matter - even to the extent of having read the article - these statements are no more POV than the lead of the article on John Lennon: "John Winston Lennon (9 October 1940 – 8 December 1980) was an English musician and singer-songwriter who rose to worldwide fame as one of the founding members of The Beatles."  --Ravpapa (talk) 10:36, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cite needed - "is one of the pillars of the chamber music repertoire"  

message: Anonymous editor  86.130.235.148 has twice removed a statement in the lead that Schubert's quartet is a testament to death. This statement is supported by numerous quotations throughout the article. Please, Mr. Anonymous, if you want to remove this sentence, please discuss it first on the talk page. Thank you, 
--Ravpapa (talk) 06:38, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article lead 

message: I only see mention in HMB of (two) publications in 1868 (Bartholf Senff and CF Peters) (and later of course, but not earlier that I notice...) - but nothing as early as 1831. Who published the quartet in 1831 and how do we know this? (Yes, I know HMB hardly lists everything- relying on it I got the "earliest" date of publication of a work 20 years too late by forgetting to check similar French publications, etc. ...) Schissel | Sound the Note! 23:36, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You missed it in the text. It was published in 1831 by Diabelli. See last paragraph of section "Composition". Regards,--Ravpapa (talk) 18:40, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  may have missed it on the page, but- 

message: We have an issue about translation. The translation of Claudius's poem is quite free, and is, in fact, the translation that I have seen around. But BFolkman, quite justifiably, felt a literal translation would be better, which he did himself.
In my youth, many years ago, I remember reading a guideline about translations, but, for the life of me, I can't find it. Are original translations considered original research? Are they preferable to published translations which take freedoms? Do original translations (if allowed at all) have to be attributed to the translator? Ravpapa (talk) 16:54, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If a translation is substantial then it is considered a derivative work and is considered to have its own new copyright. It's one of the reasons publishers come up with new translations of Dante and Dostoevsky, etc. Each translation into English has its own copyright period and protections, even when based on a work in the public domain. An "Original Research" translation is less in the public domain than one from the distant past. A translation shouldn't be assumed to be in the public domain, even if the source is. ____ E L A Q U E A T E 08:59, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'll add that a new translation here is definitely Original Research, as we have to rely on the idea that the editor is a reasonable source for their translation, when the editor is anonymous. There's no way to evaluate against any other source or expert opinion. __ E L A Q U E A T E 09:07, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation of the poem 

message: Notwithstanding the fact that Schubert's D minor quartet is not a song (it just references the song "Death and the Maiden", which I think is the intention behind this sentence), it probably ought to be noted that the melody (occurring in the song at "Du liebes Kind") is altered in the quartet. The rhythm is the same, but instead of beginning G-A-F-C (transposed), it is permuted to become F-G-C-A. Double sharp (talk) 10:09, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "a quote from another song of Schubert's, Der Erlkönig" 

message: I did not verify this factoid that  added to the lead, though I don't doubt it is true. And I agree with 's comment that the factoid is unsupported in the article. But I ask a more fundamental question: So what? This is (probably) also the only Schubert quartet that has a subito piano in the third measure, that has a next to last measure that echoes the second measure, and ... well, I could go on forever.
My point being that, if you think this factoid is somehow significant, you need to say why, and probably support that why with a source. And, in any case, I think it hardly belongs in the lead of the article.
And forgive me for writing lead instead of lede. Habits die slowly in old men. --Ravpapa (talk) 16:56, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  All minor keys? 

message: Albinoni67 has reformatted the analysis section so that the text on the left side of the page is no longer connected to the musical examples on the right side. I suppose this makes the section much more compact, but, to my mind, incoherent. The whole idea was that you could read "first theme" and then click to hear the first theme. Now you have to scroll through the examples to find it.
If others agree with me, I will restore the original format. --Ravpapa (talk) 05:29, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: My apologies, please go ahead and restore. I can see your point of view ! Albinoni67 (talk) 20:40, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Done --Ravpapa (talk) 06:10, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Reformatting

message: I am writing an essay trying to incorporate this fantastic string quartet (which i have now listened to about 20x in past month) into prose and the breakout sections with audio for each movement and themes therein have been immensely helpful for this not-so-musically-sophisticated lover of schubert. (D960 being my all time favorite)
a heart thanks for whoever did that!
i do not add to talk so much so i hope this is appropriate since not "critical" information
~~ Richrat4 (talk) 21:18, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Entirely appropriate. As for who did it, it was a community effort. In the name of the Wikipedia community, you're welcome.
Ravpapa (talk) 03:49, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gratitude 

message: Anonymous user https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/2A02:1210:5E98:9A00:7DBF:9A14:3E2A:5AFD deleted a picture of a sculpture of the Death and the Maiden because, he said, it was irrelevant. Why was it irrelevant? It is, I believe, one of the earliest artistic depictions of the Death and the Maiden legend. --Ravpapa (talk) 05:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrelevant sculpture