Talk:Fugacity

message: The above definition is clear enough. To me this means that fugacity is a theoretical (or imaginary) property of gases diamensionally the same as pressure, the magnitude of which is such that substituting its value for pressure gives correct relationships for the ideal gas law. Why do we complicate it so that no one can understand it?  
This is not the same as what is said under 'Detail', that is Fugacity is the change of pressure required etc. A change of pressure is dimensionless and the dimension of fugacity ought to be [mass]/[distance][time]*[time]. Perhaps someone will tell me if I am totallly wrongLouisBB 22:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Too many definitions

message: There should be a clear mathematical formula defining fugacity. I found none (admittedly, the page is more than disorderly now) so I added one following from the definition of chemical potential in terms of fugacity. So far I have seen chemical potential appear first... And I believe there should be a minus sign in this formula
[should be  f=\exp (-\mu/k_B T) ] but I found no reference so I left an expression following from the above "definition of \mu". If anyone can confirm there is a minus sign please correct it. I think the whole thermodynamics section should be rewritten anyway since it is much more customary to defime \mu as the primary variable for a grand canonical ensemble.
:There is no minus sign. You are probably tricked by the form that the partition function is usually written down, where the Boltzmann weight is given by  e^{-\beta ( E - \mu N )} . It is a common misconception to misread this as the sign of the beta-mu exponent being negative. However, it rearranges to  e^{-\beta ( E - \mu N )} = e^{-\beta E} \cdot e^{+ \beta \mu N } = e^{-\beta E} f^N, where f := e^{+\beta \mu} (and  \beta =  1/k_{\rm B}T as usual).--134.76.88.179 (talk) 10:01, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: 1) definitions not specific ; 2) is the sign in the formula for <math>\mu</math> correct?

message: \mu  - chemical potential is partial molar derivation of Gibbs energy
fugacity (or its increment) was originally by Lewis defined as follows:
d\mu_i = RT d Ln(fi) - this is original definition
Lewis also stated that fugacity of some component in ideal solution is equal of partial pressure of this component. Then fugacity coefficient was defined
because formal integration between 2 states real and ideal solution with same T,p, and composition. 
as f/(f*) where f* = p*, is fugacity odf i in ideal solution equal to its partial pressure.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.5.210.202 (talk) 10:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: definition 

message: Isn't fugacity (or the partial fugacity of each component) equal for each phase at equilibrium? That's a major reason it's useful and should be included... the article mentions that its useful but doesn't mention why. See 
Also a useful way to calculate fugacity is in terms of the Compressibility factor Z:  f = P*\int \frac{Z-1}{P} dP . Best, Mattb112885 (talk) 02:41, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested things to add 

message: This article hasn't seen a critical review in some time and as a result it has issues with format, lack of references, and validity of the the content.  For example:
::
f \approx \frac

:"This formula allows us to calculate quickly the fugacity of a real gas at P,T, given a value for V (which could be determined using any equation of state), if we assume \Phi is constant between 0 and P."
I may be wrong but "f" is an empirically determined value based on a gases V at a given P and T.  There is no way V could be determined equation of state.  I would be happy to be corrected but it seems as if the author got lost in the theory and math.  In the process the author forgot the intended use of fugacity and its relationship to the real world.  It seems like this disconnect is pervasive through out the article.  
Fugacity is used to describe the pressure behavior of real gases more accurately than the ideal gas law.  Since pressure is also the most common term to describe the concentration of gases fugaicty is also used to describe a gases effective concentrations in a mixture.  For a gas the "fugacity coefficient" is essentially the same as "activity" for a condensed state.  Fugacity has a relation ship to liquids and solids but it largely mediated by the liquids and solids relationship to gases.  This whole subject should be predicated on describing real world gases more accurately than is allowed by the ideal gas law.  After that many of the other applications could be described, then after that perhaps someone could have a field day with equations.--OMCV (talk) 05:13, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and I think your edits are great. The article was conceptually very muddy. The article has definitely needed a significant overhaul for a long time. It ought to first describe fugacity in  broad, general, and conceptual terms that have meaning in the real world, and then move toward more precise and technical material.  As to the above Taylor expansion approximation, I don't think it's necessary at all in the article and I agree with taking it out. It's good for textbooks, but Wikipedia has a different purpose than a textbook. COGDEN 19:02, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your estimate of my previous edits.  I've gone a bit further with the material and I hope you like what I've done.  I must admit that I'm not qualified to review the mathematical derivations that I've left in the text, I would have been better qualified as an undergraduate than I am now after years in the lab.  They look right but I'm not sure.  At times the associated language makes me I wonder if the authors goal is develop fancy models that grow out or first principles rather than to describe the real world.  Then I wonder the same thing about Peter Atkins so maybe its best I keep to synthetic chemistry.--OMCV (talk) 03:20, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major problems 

message: Came to the page wondering what fugacity was, and have a reasonable idea now, thanks.
But am confused on one aspect - either I'm misunderstanding or the bit about Φ is broken. It on the one hand states that for an ideal gas Φ is 1.0, but then also has the equation \bar V = \frac{P} + \Phi which is my problem - surely for an ideal gas \bar V = \frac{P} which would mean that Φ is 0 for an ideal gas, not 1... ? 194.81.223.66 (talk) 13:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. The problem was a little more subtle. It is not capital Φ = V - RT/P which is 1, but rather small φ = f/P further down which is 1. Dirac66 (talk) 03:39, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Φ - broken definition?

message: The intro repeatedly describes the fugacity as the real or "real-world" pressure of a gas. This leaves the incorrect impression that if one measures the pressure of a real gas, one obtains a value equal to the fugacity. Not true - if one measures the pressure, one obtains a value equal to ... the pressure. For example nitrogen at 0oC and a pressure of 100 atm has a fugacity of 97.03 atm (Atkins and de Paula 8th edn, p.112), and measurement of the mechanical pressure with a pressure gauge gives the value 100 atm (which is different from the ideal pressure nRT/V).
So what does 97.03 atm refer to? The fugacity is an effective pressure, meaning that the species' chemical potential depends on the fugacity of a real gas in the same way that it would depend on pressure for an ideal gas. In the example, the chemical potential of real nitrogen at 100 atm equals that of ideal nitrogen at 97.03 atm. One could say that fugacity is a pressure corrected to describe the real-world chemical potential and the real-world law of mass action.
This point is clear in the article's mathematical development, the current intro is likely to confuse the reader before s/he gets to the math. I intend to revise the intro and eliminate the mentions of "real-world" pressure. Dirac66 (talk) 18:11, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. I have now replaced ideal nitrogen by the phrase if nitrogen were an ideal gas, and added a brief paragraph to say that the difference in chemical potential is due to nonideality and attractive forces. Dirac66 (talk) 15:19, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Not real-world pressure but effective pressure

message: For the graph at the end of the fugacity of ethane, the caption says that the temperature is +60°F, but on expanding the figure we see that both the graph title and the file name say T = -60°F. Which is correct please? Also what is the source for the data which is graphed? Dirac66 (talk) 00:22, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethane graph 

message: Substituted at 15:41, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: It has been five years since  asked for a source for the data, and none has been forthcoming. It also has that little box saying "Chart area" and there is no explanation of the breakpoint at saturation pressure. Is it time to delete the figure? RockMagnetist (DCO visiting scholar) (talk) 17:32, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think it is time. The figure was inserted on 28 August 2012 by  who last edited Wikipedia on 20 September 2012 and never reacted to my request of 8 March 2013. So we have to judge it on its merits without expecting further input from Stieltjes. Since it is unsourced and not properly explained, I will delete it now. If someone wants to restore it, please add a source for the data and an explanation of the breakpoint as requested. Dirac66 (talk) 00:26, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  That ethane figure