Talk:Bishōjo game

message: I think I can add more but there are some problems. Revth 02:43, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your efforts. I think it isn't so important to be rigidly complete on these terms, because they are extremely temporary and rapidly changing ephemera --- e.g. people will still be playing bishōjo games ten years from now, but nobody will be saying "ugu". An encyclopedia doesn't necessarily have to keep up with that sort of stuff. As well, they are of no practical use to anyone except Japanese speakers, which isn't the main audience here on en. So their main benefit is providing some cultural color, and insight into the type of talk that goes on on Japanese websites. For this purpose I think we have plenty of terms already, so there's no need to add more if you find them dubious. --Shibboleth 03:45, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You're probably right about there being more than enough slang terms here. However, seeing "ugu" there, I'm compelled to suggest adding "gao" from AIR. In the places on the internet I frequent, it seems to be more popular than "ugu" (could be because the AIR anime is more recent, and more English-speaking otakus are familiar with anime than with bishojo games). Anyway, I didn't add it myself because I don't know how to write it in Japanese... - Commander Nemet 18:12, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Terminology and slang

message: Bishojo games have been translated and released in Korea. Fan translation is not unheard of, and a few projects have even been completed. I think this would need to be taken in to account. Does anyone know about other non-English translations?
: Some fan translations into Chinese language exist in Taiwan and I have heard of pirated copies with translation in Chinese as well. I also have heard about, but not sure where I heard it, about some fan translations done in French, German, Italian, and Spanish but I can't confirm this.Revth 17:43, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: ...the most popular have sold over a million copies, and they make up the majority of offline PC games in Japan.
Fine, except that the word "offline" links to the single player article. They're not necessarily the same thing, since you can have online single-player and offline multiplayer games: which one is meant in this case? 81.156.109.77 02:46, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-English translations 

message: In the list of terms, the kanji 娘 appears a lot of times, and is translated as "kid". Its meaning is closer to "daughter" or "young girl"; it may have been a conscious translation choice, or the author may have been thinking of another kanji (子, which means "child", is also read "ko"). Just thought I'd put this out there, in case it was a mistake. Keep up the good work. Vogon 05:36, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)        
:That's a good catch, I would definitely expect 子 there. But oddly enough, for both of the affected terms Google gives more results for the spelling with 娘. I suppose it should be left as-is. DopefishJustin (・∀・) 05:41, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
::Yeah, I don't doubt the veracity of the kanji, but I think the translation could be improved a bit. Vogon 05:43, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
:Translating "meganekko" as "young-girl-with-glasses" wouldn't really capture the original ring of the term, I think, so the current translation seems like an acceptable compromise. Also, 娘 is usually read "musume", not "ko"; so I think this is an irregular reading that emphasises "kid"-ness. 69.70.138.192 05:50, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It is an odd cultural and language tid-bit and 娘 is used with a positive, somewhat sexual meaning to replace 子 in bishojo genre. 子 means child especially those under teen when used together with 娘 and this distinction let writers use Onna 女 to mean those older than the main character. It is somewhat like the use of "baby" or "baby girl" in a casual English conversation or a song. Revth 17:39, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: I believe "boku-girl" and "glasses-girl" would be better translations than "-kid", as neither of the original words are gender-neutral. Damien 23:08, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  &#23064; 

message: I found this article lacking in the fact that it describes the content and history of the games extensively, yet there is no section on the background of the phenomenon. Why is Bishojo so popular in Japan, and why is it so unpopular in other parts of the world. There are likely numerous sources that explore this part and I would like read about that in this featured article. -- Solitude\talk 07:52, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
:(Note: I'm the original author of the article, User:Shibboleth; I just don't have access to my account.) Good point, that's indeed a question of considerable interest. However, at a base factual level all we can really say is "Japanese people just like it because it's in their culture". They (or at least some of them) like young girls, they like anime-style art, they like highly feminine and cute stuff (and Westerners mostly don't). They just do. Any more elaborate answer explaining how this preference came about would be a theory, and inherently POV. I was actually adding my ideas about this to an early draft of the article, but ended up junking them because they were original research.            
:Actually, the sources are remarkably few; the only real scholarship I know of about this comes from Sharon Kinsella (one of her articles is in the references), and even she only spends a few paragraphs on the topic in the paper linked. As I understand her, Kinsella's thesis is that bishōjo is popular among Japanese males due to sexism. In her words: "Despite the inappropriateness of their old-fashioned attitudes, many young men have not accepted the possibility of a new role for women in Japanese society. [...] The little girl heroines of Lolicom manga reflect simultaneously an awareness of the increasing power and centrality of young women in society, and also a reactive desire to see these young women dissarmed, infantilised, and subordinate." As I said, very POV.      
:Now that you mention it though, it would be interesting to present her theories provided they're properly attributed to her. Also, Kinsella will be releasing a new book covering more of this topic soon, perhaps there'll be more to say then. The history of the general phenomenon maybe could be expanded as well --- as I mentioned in the article, this, as well as most gender-oriented anime and manga, is really strongly tied in to dojin comics. However, maybe the general bishojo article would be more appropriate for this stuff, since it's not specific to games. I'll make additions when I have the time. 69.70.138.192 08:43, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I wrote the article with the assumption that the reader knows nothing about the topic to start with, and also made several comparisons with North America with the assumption that this would be more familiar to the reader than Japan. That might account for your feeling. I am not sure how this can be fixed, though; if the topic is inherently unknown and "exotic"-seeming to 90% of its readers, the article has to adapt to its audience. That said, if you find any specific POV phrase, go ahead and fix it. 69.70.138.192 08:55, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Background? 

message: Maybe this is only a Japanese phenomenon, but wouldn't BMX XXX and those Dead or Alive volleyball games also count as bishoujo games?
:: The North American release of DoA Beach Volleyball is actually a stripped-down port of the original Japanese release with bishoujo game themes. DoA is a Japanese franchise. Miwa 00:46, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article mentioned that there are no equivalents in western gaming culture, but weren't the Lula games that were somewhat popular in the mid to late 90's similar to this, if a bit more explicitly pornographic? During the peak of the live acted full motion video game era, also during the mid 90's, there were plenty of dating themed games that may also qualify - games like Man Enough, Midnight Stranger (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,304035,00.html) and the infamous Plumbers Don't Wear Ties? 213.89.227.243 (talk) 18:49, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: American bishoujo games?

message: Warning to the sensitive, contains depictions of girls dressed in Sailor_fuku styled aprons with some showing bare bottoms.
http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tehapron2ly.jpg
What game is it from?
:Are you sure it's a game? It looks like it might just be an original drawing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.131.126.105 (talk • contribs).  
::It dosen't look like a game to me. I agree with above that it is probaly a drawing, although it might well be a screen shot of a cutscene. Cerevox 01:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this scene is from H game「裸エプロン学園」. Please refer to http://www.cd-bros.co.jp/sekilala/game/apron/ (may contain adult content) --kctsang 06:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Scene from an unkown game

message: can somebody integrate this apropriatly here
--Pixel ;-) 01:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: game engine

message: The pornographic content and portrayal of women sections consist almost entirely of original research observations. Marskell 13:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OR tag 

message: The precursors were just as present in English - look at the sexual content of the Unix game "battlestar" which came preinstalled in some versions of Unix.--190.56.85.26 22:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  70's games in English 

message: This Article Has Been RhynChecked. 1 Deadlink was found, however Article citation method is incorrect ((Error - No in-place Numbers)). Deadlink is found in Section 'References'. Rhynri 02:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: RhynCheck Dead Links

message: I was unable to determine any special relevance of Hadaka apron in the "See also" section.  Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 17:06, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also 

message: After the recent tagging, I've done some research (still compiling stuff) and I think that while their are some RSes, including some academic RSes that use the term Bishōjo, there are more, including some academic sources, that use the term Bishoujo. Gal game is used occasionally, but not very often and Galge I did not really see present.
Academic sources:
*Bishoujo game - 2
*Bishōjo or Bishojo game - 4, but in some cases it used the bar, but not in all cases.
*Gal Game - 1 (most refer to Game Analysis Logic games) or something else.
*Galge - 0 (all foreign language articles
WP:Anime's RS site search:
*Bishōjo
*BishojoBishojo girl gamesBishojo "Adventure" game
*Bishoujo
*Gal game Welcome to the NHK reviewWelcome to the NHK reviewWelcome to the NHK reviewWelcome to the NHK review * Welcome to the NHK uses the term and so they may be referencing the usage in the media
*Galge
陣内Jinnai 00:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on what you've posted here, it looks like it's almost a toss-up between the various possible spellings. There doesn't seem to be any very clear winner, even though "bishoujo" seems to be slightly ahead of the others, though only slightly. In cases like this, I think it's best to leave it at the revised Hepburn spelling, and make sure all the possible spellings redirect to it. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 00:30, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

text: I should also note that "gal game" or "galge"/"gyaruge" are the most common in Japan, but they haven't really caught on (yet) in English. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 00:32, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

text: (edit conflict)Summary of sources: Looking at the sources more closesly, outside of Anime News Network which is focused on a particular readership, no site uses "bishōjo game" and only select academic sources do. In addition, their is mixed usage of "bishojo game" and "bishoujo game" among the wider public and the English industry (basically Jast USA and MangaGamer) are divided; the former, and more established uses Bishoujo while the latter uses Bishojo. The former is also based in US and the latter in Europe which may be part of the reason.陣内Jinnai 00:33, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  move to [[Bishoujo game]] or [[Bishojo game]] 

message: Patrick W. Galbraith, Bishōjo Games: ‘Techno-Intimacy’ and the Virtually Human in Japan, Game Studies volume 11 issue 2, May 2011, ISSN:1604-7982 free html - JRBrown (talk) 21:46, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  References for article improvement 

message: The article is currently referenced using "notes" which excerpt the cited articles extremely heavily, to a potentially copyright-infringing extent: almost a third of the text on the page consists of excerpts from the cited papers. Besides being ethically questionable, this makes the "notes" section very cumbersome. I would suggest that the article be reworked to a more standard form, which summarizes the papers' descriptions and arguments, provides inline citations and leaves it to interested parties to read the original if they wish. Objections? - JRBrown (talk) 22:06, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the move request was: page not moved. No consensus in English-language publications, fall back to Japanese publications per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)#No established usage in English-language sources and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Romanization. BTW, the macron is a diacritic, according to macron. Going to the end of the searches offered by Kauffner below gives me 111 uses of Bishojo, 20 for Bishōjo, and 49 for Bishoujo. JHunterJ (talk) 19:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting of current references 

message: currently, this article's lead section said bishoujo game is galgame, but they are in different article in Japanese wikipedia and their different had been mentioned in Japanese wikipedia article for bishoujo game. So, it seem we should move some of this article's information that talk specifically about galgame to the dating sims article, the current corresponding article on english wikipedia for japanese wikipedia's galgame article? 124.244.140.2 (talk) 12:06, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bishoujo game versus galgame 

message: Currently, interwiki link of some articles in some languages version of wikipedia are arranged as follow (all article names translated into english):
;Articles in en wiki:
:Dating sim-->zh:love simulation game, ja: galgame
:bishoujo game (include content for galgame)-->zh:bishoujo game, ja:bishoujo game
;Articles in ja wiki:
:bishoujo game-->zh:bishoujo game, en:bishoujo game (include content for galgame)
:galgame-->zh:love simulation game, en:dating sim
:love game (genre)-->zh:love game, en no corresponding item
;Articles in zh wiki:
:love game-->ja:love game (genre), no en link
:love simulation game-->ja:love simulation game-->redirected to: love game (genre), en:dating sim
:love adventure game-->ja:love adventure game-->redirected to: love game (genre), no en link
:bishoujo game-->ja:bishoujo game, en:bishoujo game(include contents for galgame)
Coulld they be arranged more logically?124.244.140.2 (talk) 12:32, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: interwiki links

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Bishōjo game. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100717152408/http://asiaarts.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=109662 to http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=109662
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:14, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Bishōjo game. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110723202725/http://www.matsunoki.net/files/visual_novels.pdf to http://www.matsunoki.net/files/visual_novels.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:14, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified