Talk:Sonic & Knuckles

message: The text below was originally on the main page, but really needs a grammatical cleanup and some verification of the data.  I've taken the liberty of removing the text and placing it here until that can be accomplished.
Sonic 3, and Sonic & Knuckles are the same exact game, but Sonic 3 had to be released before they could finish it at sonic team, proof in this is the fact that the Flying Battery zone's title card, music, and bosses, were left in the game, they will also load up if you force the level, also the game concept art of the robots from Flying Battery Zone appeared in the Sonic 3 manual. They split the game and released sonic 3 because of the deadline, but in addition to this, they were able to make a knuckles in sonic 2 patch for sonic 2.
--Technogeek 05:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true. Sonic 3 & Knuckles was originally devised as one game, but time restraints eventually caused Sega to split it in two halves. As mentioned above, music from Sonic & Knuckles stuck in Sonic 3, as well as a few levels. If you enter the level select, you can even see some of Sonic & Knuckles' levels. Apparently the original order was a bit different as well. I agree it has to be rewritten though. --Steerpike 10:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Deadline Trouble

message: I was told by someone that you could get three player when you locked in Sonic and Knuckles with Sonic 3. However it was only shown if you had the 4 player addon thing. I was wondering if someone can varify weather this is true. If it is I belive the page should be updated as needed. - Jedaz 12:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: False rumor. Jedi6 22:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 3 Player

message: This is pretty minor, but since I removed content I feel I should explain.  This doesn't make much sense to me:
:In fact, the minboss music is most likely a remix of Sonic 1's Marble Zone music.
A sentence that begins with "In fact" should not then immediately say "most likely," as that indicates that it is not a fact, but merely an opinion.  I removed (well, commented out) that sentence, but if someone can verify that the music is a remix, please rewrite and put it back.
Rassilon 15:48, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro paragraph trimmed 

message: The members of [the Simon Wai's Sonic 2 Beta Page forums] have interviewed many of the creators of the games and such a statement has never come up. While there are many that we still have yet to contact, the fact that none of them have mentioned this fact coupled with the fact that several communities based on the games have yet to notice this remixing, I think it's safe to say that the remix idea is too much of a stretch. If anyone can provide incontrovertible proof to the contrary, of course, I'll eat my words.
SoNick Belmont 02:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sounds fake to me

message: In accordance with the article on Sonic 3 I've drastically cut down both the level and trivia sections. The level section is just meant to be a short description of each zone and nothing more (although in all fairness, I have to admit that it was probably me who once wrote those lengthy zone descriptions :) ). I did retain the differences between Sonic and Knuckles. The trivia section was getting way too long and got littered with useless info. I took the liberty of cutting out the more arcane trivia "bits". --Steerpike 13:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see this info as being relevant actually. --Steerpike 20:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  clean-up 

message: In the article, it says that if the Super Emeralds are attempted but not collected, that the game reverts to the bad ending. This is not true.
:It IS true. NeoDoubleGames 17:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Super Emeralds

message: It seems the original numbers were correct (20-34 rings = slot machine, 35-49 = magnet tower, 50-65 = gumball), but I have got bonus stages above 65 rings as well, although I got the magnet tower that time (only tested this once). INVERTED 12:19, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know the correct order above 65. It's likely the same pattern that repeates over and over again. 65-79 is roughly the slot machines, 80-90 the magnets and around 100 the gumballs. Regardless, this information doesn't really belong in the article. I doubt the casual reader finds any value in this at all. --Steerpike 12:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bonus stages 

message: I removed the two lock on pictures from the main article and moved them here. I think we should only keep the second (S&K with S3 on it), but the image would be better if it was transposed. --Steerpike 12:58, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lock-on Pictures 

message: In the Knuckles storyline, the Robotnik bosses are all the Egg Robos, except for the Flying Battery Zone boss, which is clearly still  Robotnik. If this is worth adding to the article, could somebody else do it? I am having difficulty wording it... it keeps coming out sounding really stupid. (Maybe it just is!) -- DocSigma 17:54, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is. This bit of trivia was actually in the article until recently but I cut it out. I just fail to see the relevance of this information to the game Sonic & Knuckles. Only nerds could possibly be interested in this, and in that respect, there are a ton of other sites on the net to provide those obscure details. --Steerpike 19:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really. I think it's important to include such information to keep the article completely comprehensive, as Knuckles' timeline runs after Sonic's. --Tr33zon 10:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

text: So what if only "nerds" would care?  Probable statistics are that most people reading this article are, in fact, "nerds".KeineLust90 23:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bit of trivia 

message: We need to put more information on the Zones, all the zones have short information and they haven't got the boss information, as well as the Badniks. If we can complete this section, then ALL the article will be complete. 
200.55.109.224 01:28, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zones Section 

message: You can't base that information on Original Research.  If you make an absolute claim such as this, you need to have a direct source provided for it.  Whether or not certain landmarks are there during either game is irrelevant.  For example, how do we know that neither game replaces the other as the "canon" version of events (such as in a Resident Evil game)?  How do you know that Sonic AND Knuckles' games both took place, much less in what order?King Zeal 15:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Observed facts" is original research.  Wikipedia requires that any information put into its article has to be cited with a verifiable source.  What you "observe" is merely that there are differences between Sonic and Knuckles' stages throughout the game.  However, you cannot provide your own logic and state that one takes place AFTER the other unless there's something that directly states such.  Otherwise, it is original research. King Zeal 17:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sonic/Knuckles Timeframe

message: I changed the Project Chaos link to point to its actual homepage. The original wiki article along with several others about OC ReMix's projects was deleted after AfD (for lack of notability).
151.20.159.186 10:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project Chaos 

message: Merge done. Miremare 17:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's quite long, but I don't think it's too long, especially considering the Sonic & Knuckles article is quite short. Miremare 17:13, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sonic & Knuckles Lock-On Technology merge

message: Re. the above merge discussion:
Actually, the MSX has similar technology in certain Konami games . Although not quite identical to Sonic & Knuckles’ lock-on tech, because most MSX computers have a secondary cartridge slot and there is thus no need for fitting an extra cartridge slot on top of a cartridge, the technology bears much resemblance. The changes resulting from combining two games vary from small visual changes or cheats, up to an extra level (Salamander + Nemesis 2). Most of the games actually have the features built-in and merely detect the presence of the other game, but at least one actually modifies the other game’s code before running it (King Kong 2 + Firebird). So, maybe a separate page for this kind of tech is warranted after all? Grauw (talk) 00:12, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: But did they run alone? NeoDoubleGames 17:30, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Un-merge lock-on technology? 

message: Is the complete game (i.e. Sonic 3 and Knuckles) available in other platforms or part of a compilation for other platforms? --Pinoysurfer 05:01, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, all the compilations that contain Sonic & Knuckles have both Sonic 2 & Knuckles and Sonic 3 & Knuckles too. Miremare 12:51, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic 3 and Knuckles 

message: In the caption for the screenshot of Knuckles accessing an exclusive route, it says that he is in the "Marble Zone". There was no zone with this name in Sonic and Knuckles. I have never played the original Sonic the Hedgehog game, so the zone could be from that game. If so, it should be stated in the caption. Also, on the image tag, it says that the purpose of the image is "To show the hack." Is the entire zone a hack? The closest zone to the screenshot would be the Marble Garden Zone in Sonic 3. If it is a hack, however, why is it allowed on Wikipedia. I thought user-created hacks were forbidden. It is definitely not necesarry, in any case, because there are a multitude of other Knuckles-exclusive pathway throughout the game. The image might need to be removed. ISmellDonuts (talk) 14:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Misplaced Image?

message: The image :Image:Knucklesmarble.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --04:27, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This picture is not affiliated with 'Sonic & Knuckles' it all. NeoDoubleGames 17:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Knucklesmarble.png

message: Anyone mind if I go through the S&K Article, and suggest changes smiler to the ones I Made in the Sonic 3 article? 81.137.159.61 (talk) 11:49, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: ReWrite

message: One of the listed platforms is "Virtual Console". While Sega does (apparently) plan to release Sonic & Knuckles on Virtual Console, they haven't done so yet. So, should "Virtual Console" be one of the listed platforms before it's actually been released there? Xmoogle (talk) 23:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Virtual Console? 

message: I noticed that the United States release date was October 17, 1994. I changed it to October 18, 1994 as that was the day it was actually released. If I am wrong, which I'm pretty sure of myself on this since I remember that day very clearly. Here's a site that supports my change. http://www.freewebs.com/sonic_x-treme/genesisgames.htm Joseppi84 (talk) 12:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually February 2nd, 1994. Nate-Dawg921 (talk) 18:23, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You're thinking of Sonic 3. Sonic & Knuckles was released in the latter half of the year. Also, you're responding to comment from 15 years ago, from an editor who hasn't edited in over a decade - probably not worth responding to. Sergecross73 msg me 18:34, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  US Release Date 

message: I have noticed that the plot listed in the American manual which is paraphrased here does not make sense considering the contents of the gameplay. First, Knuckles' quest has him fighting Sonic zero times, but has him trying to hinder Sonic and Tails in their quest. Second, the ghosts in Sandopolis Zone Act 2 are already released when Knuckles enters it, while they were trapped in one of Eggman's prisons until Sonic and Tails release them in their quest. Third, why would he be fighting Robotnik's forces while fighting Sonic and Tails? Knuckles learns that Robotnik was a bad guy in the Hidden Palace Zone in Sonic and Tails' quest according to the American manual and the gameplay, and this conflicts with the American story because if he knew about it before hand, he should have figured out that Robotnik could have been a liar, and he does fight Robotnik and not an EggRobo in Act 2 of the Flying Battery Zone in his quest.
Also, Sega of America often changed the plot around in other games until Sonic Adventure became too much to Americanize, forcing Sega of America to scrap its story and go along with the Japanese story. For example, the Sonic games occur in Mobius on American versions, while they occur on Earth in the Japanese story. Sonic CD had Amy Rose's name changed to Princess Sally. The only change that Sega of Japan accepted was changing Eggman's name to Ivo Robotnik because "Maria Eggman" was awkward AFAIK. (This is the only change I feel was necessary due to the need to avoid a lawsuit from the Beatles due to the name "Eggman" due to the way Americans tend to file lawsuits over anything.)
By the way, could someone who has seen the Japanese manual put up its plot in this article? Jesse Viviano (talk) 09:25, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot section name change 

message: Since the new Sonic 4 is coming, should there be an article regarding it here? Or even on the Sonic 3 page?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingplatypus (talk • contribs) 01:24, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Sonic the Hedgehog 4

message: Unless I'm mistaken, Dr. Robotnik was never referred to as "Eggman" until Sonic Adventure.  This article alternates between the two names in various places, especially in the "Sonic's Story" and "Knuckles' Story" sections.  I wanted to edit them to all say Robotnik, but I figured I should bring it up here, since this issue was passed around quite a bit in the discussion for Sonic 4. Lord Psyko Jo (talk) 15:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe you are right as far as English-speaking regions, but I believe he was called Eggman in the older Genesis games in the Japanese versions. I'm not entirely sure, and I don't have a source to back it up, but that would be additional explanation as to why there's so many arguments about this... Sergecross73 msg me  12:47, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Eggman vs Robotnik

message: Why Did SEGA made super Tails and Hyper(and Super) Knuckles,if they aren't going to appear in any other game,could it be that they just want to make S3&K the best game by making Tails and Knuckles super and hyper? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.163.25.111 (talk) 02:44, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.47.212 (talk) 02:21, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

text: Yeah why did Sega made them?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.47.212 (talk) 13:43, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Another reminder of that this is not a messageboard where you randomly discuss the game. It's supposed to be about discussing the article itself. Random pondering about the game itself doesn't belong here. Sergecross73 msg me  15:04, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Super Tails and Hyper n Super Knuckles 

message: I haven't deleted this yet but can someone cite a few examples of areas that are increased in difficulty?  As for bosses being more difficult, I can't think of any instance where this is the case (except in S3&K in Marble Garden and that's subjective - plus you can get to the flying Robotnik battle that is only meant for Sonic or Tails anyway).  In fact whilst gliding, Knuckles' ability to deflect certain projectiles from any angle makes things easier, along with covering large distances across certain levels and being able to easily cruise over pits, lava etc. where Sonic needs precision jumping. groovygower (talk) 03:21, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Knuckles' levels are noticeably more challenging than Sonic's, with certain bosses made more difficult..." 

message: I remember there being a review from Famitsu that was significantly more negative than the rest of the ones cited now: a 25/40, if I'm not mistaken. There also may have been one from IGN or something at, like, a 7 out of 10. I enjoy this game a great deal - it's my second favorite of the Classics, the first being Sonic 3 - but I can't shake off the feeling that its reception has been exaggerated through pruning. Tezero (talk) 21:20, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Famitsu'' 

message: Does anybody feel like the release dates could be wrong? Other sites give different dates, so it might be worth confirming the true date for each region. I saw a 1994 Japanese promo ad on YouTube that gave the date of 10/18, so at least that's correct. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:56, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Has there been nobody looking into this? At the very least, we could find the exact day used for Australia's November release date. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 09:21, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Release date 

message: Is there really nothing else available for the Reception? I'd think you'd need reviews from the game's original release in order for the section to be sufficiently broad. czar ⨹ 14:09, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it's too short, and I think it's going to be a plausible amount of time before this gets reviewed, so I'll try to find more sources for the reception. I couldn't find any print sources (because that's where the majority of content lies in) but I'll keep looking. ☯ Jaguar ☯ 14:23, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: , there are a few reviews here - this is where most of my Sonic print sources come from. Tezero (talk) 14:30, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that, it's just what this needs. I'll see what I can do about that today ☯ Jaguar ☯ 14:40, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm expanding the reception section - do you think some of those entries in the link you gave would pass reliability? ☯ Jaguar ☯ 23:24, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: They're mostly print magazines, which are generally reliable. Sergecross73 msg me 23:39, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small reception 

message: The article is just wrong.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles was one of my first games when i was a kid over 20 years ago, it was NOT released 4 years ago on Steam.
It is a completely different game.
It has a multiplayer mode for those 3d ball stages, all the content from Sonic 3, all the content from Sonic & Knuckles AND even a REALLY well made connection between those games (If you collect all Emeralds during the events of Sonic 3, Knuckles will steal them from you in the Main storyline, which unlocks access to the BIG chaos emeralds, that transform you into SSJ3, aka Hyper Sonic, who is just awesome. Basically, after beating the game, you can use him everywhere, and blast through the stages in SECONDS!)
Sonic 3 was great, Sonic and Knuckles was great, but the combination of those two, just made them the best game ever. Should be stated somewhere that there is a MAYOR difference between the games, because the "single" games, basically just have 33% of the content of the "whole" game, and of course they are missing one of the best things in video games ever... Being allowed to DESTROY everything just by looking at it, including bosses that you spend hours on before, once you beat the game...
OFC i can't say anything about the Steam version. But that one most likely has everything good removed with "patches". The game is free for over 10 years anyways, no need to pay for it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.10.123.27 (talk) 09:17, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The sentence is saying that of Sonic & Knuckles being released on Steam as it's own game, it was released alongside the connected Sonic 3 version. The game doesn't have anything added or removed, as it's emulated rather than a true port. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 11:54, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Four years ago, I believe, was the first time Sonic 3 & Knuckles was released as one game. Of course you could have combined the Genesis cartridges earlier; mashing two games together that weren't built together would be a strange idea indeed. Tezero (talk) 18:56, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you both for fielding that one. I was about to delete the question when I first saw it, with it being so incoherent... Sergecross73 msg me 18:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a forgivable mistake, I think. From my experience at the Sega Forums and, to a lesser extent, a few smaller communities, the fanbase almost unilaterally considers this and S&K to be one game, even more so than the two Sonic 4 episodes or the console and DS versions of Colors. I'm just an oddball as I grew up with Mega Collection for the GameCube and the individual PC ports, not the original carts on the Genesis. Tezero (talk) 20:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The original poster is right, *Sonic 3 & Knuckles* DID exist as a SINGLE game over 20 years ago. I had it when I was a kid, and I did play "Hyper Sonic" with the 14 emeralds and everything else. It came in a bundle box which contained: Sonic 3 , Sonic & Knuckles AND Sonic 3 & Knuckles: http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100404210811/sonic/images/thumb/9/91/Sonic_and_Knuckles_collection.jpg/479px-Sonic_and_Knuckles_collection.jpg As you can see in the bottom, it displays the 3 games and is available for Windows 95.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.27.240.45 (talk) 03:14, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sonic and Knuckles Collection is a port from 1997. The first time the game was officially released under the title of Sonic 3 & Knuckles was on Steam in 2011. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 06:28, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a different game, from about 20 years ago 

message: I think a picture of this in action, even under fair use, would significantly improve understanding of how it works. I propose re-adding one. Looks like :File:Sega Genesis- Sonic & Knuckles locked on to Sonic3.jpg used to be here but it was deleted because it was mistagged as free. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:20, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I was fine with the image that used to be here. Sergecross73 msg me 20:37, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of lock-on technology 

message: Are we sure that '&' in the Japanese title is to, not ando? I reckon it could actually be Sonikku ando Nakkuruzu. I know that for Black & White (video game), the '&' in the Japanese title ブラック＆ホワイト is ando, not to (I've seen the Japanese trailer for that game), but that could be because it's a British game. But I also know that Sega's in own Puzzle & Action series (for example, Puzzle & Action: Tant-R and Puzzle & Action: Ichidant-R), the title is in (and is pronounced in) English, and I'd therefore imagine the '&' in Japanese パズル＆アクション is supposed to be ando, not to. In the only Japanese adverts of Sonic & Knuckles I've seen, it's pronounced in English. Does anyone know about this either way? Adam9007 (talk) 21:11, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I've also noticed same problem at Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, whose Japanese article says the '&' is ando, not to. Adam9007 (talk) 22:46, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

text: I speak Japanese (though not as a native) and I'd bet my lucky chopsticks it's "ando". I have no evidence to base that on, though, so this comment is probably useless. Sorry. Popcornduff (talk) 07:51, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

text: I have no idea. I maintain most Sonic articles, but I don't know any Japanese, so I leave that to others. I haven't look through this article's history in particular, but there's always IPs doing drive-by tweaks to the translations, so its certainly possible that someone messed it up in theory. Sergecross73 msg me 12:23, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that '&' is not used in everyday Japanese, only in foreign nouns. ソニック&ナックルズ is written in Katakana, the syllabary used primarily for foreign nouns and loanwords. It should be noted that the Japanese name is ソニック&ナックルズ, not ソニックとナックルズ, so it seems to be emulating a foreign (in this case, English) noun. According to the Japanese article for Mario & Sonic at The Olympic Games, the reading of マリオ&ソニック AT 北京オリンピック is マリオアンドソニック アット ペキンオリンピック (Mario ando Sonikku atto Pekin Orinpikku, it looks like our article has the AT wrong too (should be a double t).), the '&' obviously being ando (アンド), not to (と). It should also be noted that when Black & White is transliterated to ブラック＆ホワイト, the '&' did not get translated to to, but remained ando because that's closer to the English name. Because '&' is not used in everyday Japanese, it follows logically that it's ando rather than to or ya (another Japanese word for and, this one inexhaustive). I imagine it's the same with パズル＆アクション; the '&' is ando because Puzzle & Action is English. Adam9007 (talk) 21:30, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ampersand pronunciation and romanisation 

message: Not sure if this would be a useful EL but Sega officially hosted a demo of the game on its website for Windows 95 http://web.archive.org/web/19970327224157/http://www.sega.com/segapc/downloads/games/sonic3k.html
WhisperToMe (talk) 23:30, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Windows 95 demo 

message: It may have a PC version of the game but I am not sure. Maybe compatible with Windows, MacOS/Macintosh, Linux, and Chromebook. Maybe works on Chrome browser. I am not sure. Just add it if you can. :) 
Thank you! Cdmxm8807i8x (talk) 00:05, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  PC demo 

message: glitches should also be noted in the article, such as the more famous ones like the slope glitch and the loopback. 50.109.155.4 (talk) 03:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  glitches 

message: What do you think of "Sonic the Hedgehog 3: Part 2" as an alternative name for this game? Nate-Dawg921 (talk) 18:20, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate name