Talk:August Burns Red

message: I'm not sure if it should make the article, but the drummer matt greiner got signed recently by zildjian (maker of cymbals) more about it here http://www.zildjian.com/EN-US/artists/artistDetail.ad2?artistID=3036 and also they released a christmas carrol during december on their myspace, purevolume and other places, a link to the purevolume page is 
http://www.purevolume.com/augustburnsred thanks peace  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 1337freek (talk • contribs) 23:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Matt Greiner get signed

message: Some of their material contains blast beats, death metal vocals and riffs along side metalcore/hardcore punk main instrumentals. Maybe Techgrind?
Nah. Really not a grind band at all. --Wick3dd (talk) 01:46, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Grindcore???

message: I'm not sure if their a christian band or not someone show me info that they are.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.247.22.136 (talk) 23:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Is ABR A christian Band or not

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Messengers.jpg

message: The lead singer indicates that the meaning of their name is different from the one included in this wikipedia article. http://wisemenpromotions.com/wmpshowcase/august%20burns%20red.htm here is the link to the interview. He says one of thier friends got his hand cut off in august.
Actually the name originated from Jon Hershey's tragic break up story when they were forming the band link here: http://www.drivenfaroff.com/2007/05/15/august-burns-red-interview-may-9th-2007/ (71.240.150.81 (talk) 18:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Meaning of Name

message: if not then i think it should be taken out of the studio album section. PhilCosby 07:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Demo not a studio album?

message: I'm pretty sure ABR is not mathcore. I don't know much about the genre, but if its roots are in bands like Converge, it doesn't seem reasonable to label ABR as mathcore. Could someone possibly provide a source or some piece of information indicating that they are mathcore? Otherwise I'm tempted to remove the genre. -- FatalError (talk | contribs) 03:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The source for metalcore doesn't mention mathcore but mentions the style of it having unusual time signatures and the like but no clear cut announcing them as mathcore. Maybe another reviewer names them as such? Oh and by the way, even that source for metalcore could be questionable since it's college-published and not sure about it but lets not go into that shall we? −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪  kaiden  06:09, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I just realized the date after I posted. It was just a heads up and by the way someone just added it. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪  kaiden  02:15, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mathcore? 

message: Yes ABR is christain they go to my church they are really cool guys. My friend is like friends with Matt. I live right bye Manheim where they live is not lancaster  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.2.186.101 (talk) 05:05, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian 

message: ok come on theres not one alternative rock bone in this band body. I mean that source said Becoming the Archetype is a alternative rock band also. I mean come on for real. a Alternative rock band is like. The Fray, Fall Out Boy, The Classic Crime, Anberlin,Aiden, Switchfoot. ABR is way way heavier then alternative rock.Rockismorethanmusic (talk) 23:14, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternative Rock

message: ABR is NOT death metal. That source is a link to an online store. It's not reliable. I'm removing it. Might as well cite Amazon and Borders too. -- FatalError (t|c) 02:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop it. ABR is clearly not death metal in any way, shape, or form. If you have ever listened to their music, you would know. Online stores are not reliable sources. Stop linking to them, pretending they are valid sources. The link to MTV is to their store, not an actually page on the MTV website. -- FatalError 01:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Actually, no, this has nothing to do with my opinion. The sources do not follow WP:V, like I said. You are not who decides which sources are reliable either. And you also removed neutral edits of mine that had nothing to do with genres, just to let you know. I don't want to start an edit war, so I'll get an admin or someone to check up on those. -- FatalError 05:57, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't mean to remove any of your other edits, guess I got confused. Sorry about that. I don't know why but the first sevral times I tried reverting your genre edits nothing happened. If an admin says AOL, MTV, and the others are all unreliable I will stop. Landon1980 (talk) 06:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Thank you. Landon, you're wrong that your links meet Wikipedia's criteria. None of those sources are self-published works, they are simply databases just like Last.fm and PureVolume, and Wikipedia requires self-published sources. There is a reason MySpace and PureVolume are not realiable sources for genres, and your links are the exact same. We're not the ones deeming the sources unreliable, the Wikipedia policies are. -- FatalError 17:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I'd like to add an example of a reliable source: the source for metalcore.. It is a self-published article by a credible source. It's not just a database that says "Genre: Metalcore", it is an actual article. The sputnikmusic review is also a self-published review by a well known music website. Again, not a database. The only semi-reliable source you have is the allmusic review on windowsmedia.com, but there have been many warnings all over Wikipedia about AMG's use, and it is notorious for clearly mislabeling certain groups. (For example, The Fall of Troy is labeled speed metal.) -- FatalError 17:18, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

text: *"Being used several times on wikipedia". - that doesnt actually prove that its RIGHT.
*Theres no policy against the use of online stores, however it has been commonly accepted as an unreliable source. As Fatalerror stated earlier, there have been many disputes on other artist pages over the use of such sites.
--SilverOrion (talk) 06:36, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Wow, I'm sorry, someone brought this to my attention: I meant secondary sources, not self-published. I can't believe I did that. But anyway, many other fellow Wikipedians have warned against the use of online stores and media databases and such because they are often inaccurate, and Wikipedia itself says to use them with caution. Most of them only cover broad genres; the only reason ABR is labeled death metal on all of them is because none of them have "metalcore" in their databases (I checked), so they use the next best thing. And AOL Video is as unreliable as YouTube is, because it's essentially the same thing. If you were referring to Abort TV, the makers of the video, their review of ABR () labels them as metalcore and makes no reference to death metal. -- FatalError 18:19, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Really? You're accusing me of sock puppetry? So I got into an argument with myself? You're only making that accusation because you have no rebuttal against my argument. If you had looked into it more you would have realized that it's obvious that he is not my sock puppet. I didn't even know who he was until he got the article for The Used protected. Do your homework before you make bold accusations like that. -- FatalError 21:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm too lazy to have a sock puppet. I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of making (and regularly editing) the user page, for example. But either way, whether he is my sock puppet or not, it's irrelevant. I didn't remove just any info, I removed inaccurate info. Wikipedia says to use common sense when dealing with questionable sources, and I'm using common sense in stating that ABR is not death metal. It has no influence in death metal music. Anyway, I'm done arguing, I don't care enough about this article to get into an edit war with you. This is a fruitless debate. I guarantee that someone else will come and continue this in the future, but it's not going to be me. -- FatalError 22:44, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Logging out and using your IP is also sock puppetry in case you did not know. Landon1980 (talk) 05:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Not nearly as good removing sourced info because you don't like what it says. It is obvious there is sock puppetry going on here. Death metal has been in the list for a long time, now all of the sudden here come all these ppl against it. So you wouldn't object to me requesting a checkuser be done? You just don't understand how things work here; you can't remove information because it differs from your personal opinion. You need to go back and take a look at the five pillars of editing Wikipedia before continuing here. Landon1980 (talk) 13:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Actually neither of us have violated 3RR lately. Maybe you should learn to count before you throw around false accusations. Mtv, AOL music, and allmusic are used throughout wikipedia in music related articles. There is nothing else to say. The genre is properly sourced and has been in use for quite some time. The burden of discussion is on him, not I. Landon1980 (talk) 14:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Nah, don't be sorry. It was a good debate. I'll admit the edit warring was a little over-the-top, but I don't blame you for it. But yeah, listening to the band helps. ;) Cheers. -- FatalError 05:56, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death metal? 

message: We need to include in the article that ABR is a Christian band. I don't want to say that they are "Christian metalcore", but on the other hand how else are we going to say it? I suggest moving the genre "Christian metalcore" away from the infobox and into the actual article. — FatalError 15:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Woah, take a chill pill buddy. I didn't say anything about metalcore. That's perfectly fine. I'm saying it's misleading to label them as Christian metalcore, because Christianity is a religion, not a genre. Religions have no place in the infobox, so I'm proposing to somehow state in the article that they are Christian without directly saying "Christian metal" or "Christian metalcore". — FatalError 22:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Firstly, yes metal and metalcore are quite different :P Also having a christian faith section can veer users away from changing their genre to "christian metalcore" or whatever like on the As I Lay Dying article. I think if there are references to their faith then it should be including to stop people changing it. Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 02:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Sounds like a good idea. I can start the paragraph tomorrow and then you guys can improve it. I'd write it now but it's bed time for me. — FatalError 06:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I added text, so now it's not just a straight quote. But I also stated that they are Christian in the first line, to make it clear. — FatalError 20:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wasn't the whole purpose of the Christian faith section so it didn't have to be in the lead right next to their genre? I just don't understand why their religion is relevant enough to have to be in the lead. Isn't an entire section on the matter enough to let everyone know they are Christians? Landon1980 (talk) 03:19, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know. I have mixed feelings about this. Let's discuss this further on my talk page, so we don't have to jump from article to article. — FatalError 03:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm restarting the discussion regarding the inclusion of 'Christian metalcore' in the infobox. Is consensus still the same or not? If we abide by the "aim for generality" guideline we put simply metalcore in the infobox. I personally think an entire section explaininth their ties with Christianity is sufficient. Hoponpop, as of now consensus is in place, before you can add the genre we must decide on adding it. Landon1980 (talk) 14:28, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I vote for simply Metalcore. Not Christian Metalcore, and certainly not Death Metal as Hoponpop seems to think. As he's obviously never listened to the band, I don't really understand why he'd even bother editing this page. EDIT: Don't mind the fact that I'm just an IP. I simply don't feel like getting an account here. 69.251.198.48 (talk) 05:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Everyone has agreed that metalcore alone is appropriate for the infobox, except for hoponpop. If he continues ignoring the talk page I will report him and he will be blocked once again. Landon1980 (talk) 23:23, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Not everyone and what they think doesn't define what the marketplace states their genre is. In the future, don't discuss faith at all but genre. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:24, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

text: I notice you avoided mentioning the other direct quote from Shout! in that reference: "It is important to us that people know that we are indeed Christians…without having us stand up there and ram it down people’s throats." The references will have to speak for themselves for now. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:29, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian? 

message: Does anyone know why he left the band?  It seems like everyone is so quiet about the subject and I'm so curious.  He was such a great vocalist.  Any help would be appreciated.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.34.154.218 (talk) 00:08, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I know it's pretty much pointless to answer a nearly four-year old question, but he left in 2006. This question was asked in 2008 and according to the comment above from 2009, someone still thought he was in the band three whole years after his departure and his replacement? • GunMetal Angel 17:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Josh McManess  

message: I was reading in AP that they're releasing a new album entitled Home sometime this year or early next yaear. Its a CD/DVD 2-disc pkg. Just wanted to know if anyone besides me has heard about this and would possibly like to share it with the world via wikipedia. Im too lazy to edit it...im too lazy to sign in as me. Hit me up here on the world wide wiki, if you wanna talk. Avengingangel2  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.160.49.10 (talk) 16:18, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: New Album

message: The page is still talking about how Constellations is being released in 2009. Can someone update that, I'm too lazy to. And while on that note, Matt's name has a hyperlink but when you click on it you just end up back at August Burns Red. Either create or reference it to Matt's page or take off the link. Thanks. 75.207.7.61 (talk) 23:54, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone please update the page? 

message: Template:edit semi-protected
Please change the hometown of the band. There are multiple videos on youtube of Matt Greiner stating that their hometown is Manheim, Pennsylvania; and even on their new live DVD they state that Manheim is their hometown.  
Guitarguyryan94 (talk) 19:05, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Oxguy3 tc 22:46, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Guitarguyryan94, 3 October 2010 

message: Hello, all. I'm currently in the process of re-writing the History section of the article to make it easier to read and better-cited. If interested in commenting/contributing, take a look at my sandbox and edit things around or leave leave suggestions at the bottom of the page. Thanks! atallcostsky talk  03:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to merge in the result of the re-write. It still contains mostly the same content from the previous version, but with more/better citations and a bit of extra information, combined into sections and paragraphs. Feel free to mercilessly edit it (for the better I hope). atallcostsky talk  03:33, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section re-write 

message: I just added the one line sentence in the leveler section about it being released. Could someone please cite it? I'm too dumb to figure out the weird wiki-syntax for that.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.178.176.239 (talk) 19:45, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cite Leveler release 

message: An IP address added under the "band name" section that drummer, Matt Greiner stated that the story behind a girl named August burning a dog named Red was false and there is no actual meaning to August Burns Red. The source is a radio interview on the Colin McEnroe show here at about the 31:00 he explains it. This will have to be added to the page. • GunMetal Angel 08:18, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The explanation for the name of the band seems to be a hoax 

message: Changed from "Metalcore, Post-hardcore" to "Metalcore, thrash metal, progressive metal". Any objections? None are referenced. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:53, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Progressive metal and thrash metal are indeed sourced (being that I sourced those genres myself many months ago in its own section), but post-hardcore isn't. August Burns Red is most definitely not post-hardcore; however I've viewed out this whole situation just now with your edit warring with an IP address and in all honesty, it was kind of dumb and was a big waste of time. I'm reverting the page back to its old revision now. • GunMetal Angel 09:02, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anon has made genre changes 

message: They have a very progressive sound, not to mention that under the Musical style section of the page says that they have traits of progressive metal in their music. I think that Progressive Metal should be added to the genre. Is that cool?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barbarian Kayak (talk • contribs) 18:25, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be just kept as metalcore in my say, because they're also considered thrash according to another source. Plus that section is for in-depth information as such • GunMetal Angel 23:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

text: Seconding is great, but a reliable source that supports the genre is what is needed. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:23, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should they be considered Progressive Metal? 

message: Sorry if I'm short, it's just I've been through this dispute before and it's tiring. 
The criteria "Bells" associated act follows :
"For individuals: groups of which he or she has been a member" - Matt Greiner and Jon Hershey
Thanks for your patience. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asimpleart 13 February 2013 18:10 (talk • contribs) 
: I don't care that you're short. The simple case is that you're wrong.
: The criteria is simple. This is a band, not an individual. If this article were about Greiner or Hershey, then both ABR and Bells would qualify as associated acts. Does that make sense? This article is not about those individuals, but about a band.
: Criteria is listed at :Template:Infobox musical artist#associated acts:
::Other acts with which this act has collaborated on multiple occasions, or on an album, or toured with as a single collaboration act playing together
:: Groups which have spun off from this group
:: A group from which this group has spun off
: Bells has not collaborated.
: Bells did not spin-off from this band. A member left and then formed a new band. After the band was running, another former member of this band joined that band.
: The third is obviously not possible.
: The grey area is that in the avoid section it lists "groups with only one member in common" since these bands share two members, but that doesn't satisfy the normal guidelines.
: Quite frankly, I don't care how many times you've been through this dispute before, because when you're wrong, you're wrong. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:45, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  August Burns Red - Associated Acts 

message: As I've said in the summary of my edit that was disputed, Christianity isn't a defining characteristic of the band, and thus doesn't warrant a mention as their "genre" in the lead section. The ban'd guitarist JB Brubaker is quoted in the article as saying that "Christianity is a religion, not a style of music", and I think that appropriately summarises the position of the band's religion in their music. They are Christians performing metalcore, but their music doesn't have the characteristic of Christian metal; if they were of any other religion or atheist etc., their music could still be exactly the same. You can contrast this, for example, with The Devil Wears Prada, who are vocal about their religion, reference it in their lyrics often, have been cited as a Christian metal band by multiple sources and even state "Christian" as one of their genres on their Facebook page. For them, Christianity is a genre – for August Burns Red, it's the members' religion. Unless reliable sources are brought in that counter this, I propose that "Christian" is removed as a genre from the lead, with a link to Christian metal placed into the relevant section instead, as per my edit.----MASHAUNIX 17:16, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we have any RS that claim that they are a Christian band? The links posted on 14:47, 23 April 2008 above do support that statement, yes. The two previous discussions make it clear that linking to Christian metalcore is acceptable. I'm not sure why another discussion was opened on this. Removing "Christian" is unmerited and wrong. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:40, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian metalcore 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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