Talk:Noel Desmond Gray/Archive 1

message: found this page doing s search about my grandfather noel gray. the guy writing the page is a nutter , all the james bond stuff and no idea about spelling. jeremy
Who the hell is Jeremy?
Noel Gray has not now nore ever has had a GRADNSON NAMED JERREMY! This is a pathetic attempt to gain standing to edit this page, he knows nothing about Noel Gray and should be exposed as the pretender that he is.
:Gee, I wonder how many people in the world have had the last name Gray? How many people have had the first name Noel? Wow, both names are/were extremely common in English speaking countries. Could it be possible for there to be more than one person that ended up with both of these common names? No, of course not. The only Noel Gray ever to exist is the one who was involved with Telectronics and had a son named Chris who doesn't have a child named Jeremy. What was I thinking?—WAvegetarian•(talk) 22:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nutter

message: Why have you deleted the paras about Noel Grays "Secret mision" in WW2 that is supported by your refernce number 13?  This information is in the public domain and the website refrenced says you suplied the information ! Why is this info "out of context" as you said ?  Jeremy Gray144.131.12.107 03:29, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: secret mission

message: nothing on google about this only there was  CSIR research place at Watson bay from 1936 to 1944Jeremy Gray58.166.30.222 06:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armey School of Radio Physics Watson Bay

message: As can be seen from the above discussion and also comments through the text such as , there is considerable bias around the writing of this article.  If it is not cleaned up to meet wikipedia standards of verifiability, I propose it is merged to the Telectronics article. Note Wikipedia is not a site for family history and although Gray almost certainly meets the standards for inclusion (there would be no disagreement that he made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field), the present article does not conform to the standards set out at Wikipedia:Autobiography not least because the main contributor has apparently been Gray's son and thus in breach of the guideline.--Golden Wattle  talk 21:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up and POV 

message: All sources I have now been able to check indicate the article's subject Noel Gray was at least cofounder of the early Australian biotech company Telectronics, so as said by Golden Wattle "meets the standards for inclusion" in Wikipedia but the article in its present form bluntly reads more like an historically based novel.  The main contributor "has apparently been Gray's son and thus in breach of the Wikipedia guidlines",see Wikipedia:Autobiography. I apologise to Mr Gray's son for repeating the word 'nutter' in my edit under the section headline "Nutter", this was an emotional reaction to reading the article. An article which could better record the history of Noel Gray's contribution to early biotechnology might best be written by his son, even if that is contravening a rule so he should be encouraged to do that. TK Canberra60.230.177.204 04:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs rewriting 

message: This article needs deleting rather than rewriting. This man is at best a minor business man and inventor. Despite what his relatives may think.
Start by reading the book Telectronics the early years, then read the next book and edit this page and all future refferences to Noel Gray and Telectronics accordingly. mambo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.206.239.116 (talk • contribs).
:If you feel the article should be deleted, please nominate it using Wikipedia:Articles for deletion.—WAvegetarian (talk) 22:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Article has an AfD now, Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Noel_Gray OSbornarf 04:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs deleting

message: Changed "founder" of Telectronics to "co-founder" as verified by reading ref. [1].  Changed "first High Technology" to "one of the earliest High Technology" in accord with High technology definition. Deleted ref to "Patent". The benefit of left ventricular pacing is prior art. See Artificial pacemaker section biventricular pacing. The method of left ventricular or apical pacing claimed in the patent is nonsensical as firstly, it would require open-chest surgery which is not an acceptable option (as distinct from transvenous pacing) , secondly, the method proposes placing the pacemaker between and contacting both the apical heart area and the diagphram which is impossible as both are in constant and variable motion, and thirdly, the proposal is for 'capacitance electrodes', which is technological nonsense as the capacitance required could neither be provided by the 'surface' of the pacemaker, nor within an aqueous environment. Geoffrey Wickham 05:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mostly, I have to ask who you are, and if you feel so strongly about this, why don't you register with Wikipedia and provide verifiable sources for all of this? What you assert here is no more verifiable than a lot of what you  claim is wrong with the article. Wildhartlivie 10:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit of 19 September 2007

message: 1. I have to ask what the purpose is of some of the entries in the further reading section. I realize they were put there as some sort of citation for a bulk of text that was hidden within the body of the article. I removed that text. There is no need to hide text for the purpose of saving it for a later date. If at some future point, it may be returned to the article, then it can be obtained from the history.
2. The format of the referencing within the article was not in keeping with the format suggested in WP:CITE. I replaced the citations that were formerly made by the use of (3) with an appropriate format. 
3. There was a preponderous number of redlinks in the article. Unless one is planning to start articles for those or there isn't sufficient information out there for an article, there's no point in redlinking every proper name of a person or establishment, so those were removed.  
4. Back to the further reading section. Exactly where would one go to find the following:
* Service and Casualty Form N D Gray NX 102216
* University of Sydney examination records Noel D Gray 1948-50.
* Graduate Institution of Radio Engineers
* Letters of Caroline Hedger
* Applied Economics and Australian Business, 10th Edition, Rayomond Bennett, P 81
* Corporate Affairs Records for Telectroics Pty Limited
* Taxation records for Telectronics
* Books for Telectronics
If these are indeed records that exist, it needs to be clarified where one would find them.
Also, the format for Applied Economics and Australian Business, 10th Edition, Rayomond Bennett, P 81 also requires the publisher information and date, besides the proper formatting of the author's surname, given name, at the beginning of the entry.
These are some of the issues I see with cleaning up this article that really need to be addressed, besides the POV question, which I'm simply not sure of at all. Wildhartlivie 11:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article issues