Talk:Ivor Novello

message: Someone wrote this:
"Ewan MacColl's song Ivor contrasts the supposedly favourable treatment of Novello with the harsher experience of ordinary prisoners."  Is this true?  What is the source?  -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:13, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Here are the lyrics: http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/song-midis/pdf/Ivor-lyrics.pdf  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1981Marcus (talk • contribs) 15:17, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Ewan MacColl

message: What is meant by "he was taken up by ... Marsh".  A mentoring relationship, or something else?  -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:06, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I rather think Eddy Marsh was one of those confirmed bachelors whose carnal instincts are never put into practice. He certainly seem to surround himself with attractive young men, not all of them conspicuously heterosexual, but I have not seen it stated anywhere that the bedroom played any part in his relationships. He certainly was a mentor, and a notable one, whatever else he was or wasn't. Tim riley (talk) 19:18, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

text: That is indupitably clarified, and decidedly improved thereby. You will rejoice to note that I substituted "received a rapturous ovation on his first entrance" for my earlier draft, "he got a warm hand on his entrance." Tim riley (talk) 22:38, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Taken up

message: There's a Wetherspoons pub on Cowbridge Road in Cardiff named the Ivor Davies, which uses a picture of him for its sign. It seems trivial but a similar note is made about a pub in the article about Larry Grayson. DewiMR (talk) 20:12, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Pub

message: The dates given for Bobbie Andrews on this page  (1916-1951) do not match the dates on the Robert (Bobbie) Andrews page of 1895-1976. I've never edited a Wikipedia page so could someone else please look into this and sdo any changes they feel appropriate.  Thanks  2.103.103.170 (talk) 20:33, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no error. The dates in the infobox state the length of the relationship between Novello and Andrews and not Andrews' birth and death dates. Hope this helps.FruitMonkey (talk) 21:59, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bobbie Andrews 

message: Was his mother Italian? Valetude (talk) 09:16, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Not from the biography: "Born Clara Novello Davies, of pure Welsh stock (having been christened Clara Novello by her music-loving father, Jacob Davies, after her godmother, the famous Italian singer). FruitMonkey (talk) 18:00, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Half Italian? 

message: Hi, In the opening paragraph it states 'The lodger' as being 1927, later in the article it says 1926. It may well be that both are right, but refer to different things? PeterM88 (talk) 17:33, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  I have corrected the date to 1927. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:45, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates 

message: I'm surprised that the address of Novello's birthplace, at "Llywn yr Eos", Cowbridge Road East, is considered "too specific for encyclopedia". I'd have thought that was a basic fact. After all, Cardiff is quite a large city, not a tiny village, with many different areas and districts. If we compare with, for example, Dylan Thomas, Arthur Machen, Idris Davies or Harry Secombe, perhaps the address is best added to the picture caption. I'd agree that a source would be useful (although I don't see one in those other articles). At the moment the source for his birth in Cardiff is given by the ODNB biog, which seems to be a subscription site and so hidden. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:20, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: But the plot thickens. The geograph image here verifies that the house with the plaque, on Cowbridge Road East, was indeed his brithplace. The property he then moved to, at 11 Cathedral Road, was sold in January 2013 for close to £350,000:  Martinevans123 (talk) 17:52, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Here are some sources for his birthplace address: , , .  "Llywn yr Eos" translates as "Grove of the Nightingale". No. 95, Cowbridge Road:  is the  number. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:35, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it's important information about Novello's life or career. Wikipedia is not a travel guide. Instead of WP:Edit warring, you should have waited to add back the information until you gained a WP:Consensus by discussion, pursuant to the WP:BRD rule. But I've decided not to escalate the argument, and I added the BBC ref. Do you have any interest in this article, or did you stop by just to force this information into it? -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:40, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Ssilvers, adding this information doesn't actually contribute to Novello's career, and certainly not his life. I've read it extensively and it's clear that it's starting to look very much like a travel guide. The alternative might be to present the information differently and give it an alternate section. I agree that getting into an WP:Edit war wouldn't be ideal, why not introduce the same method as that of Dylan Thomas, Arthur Machen, Idris Davies or Harry Secombe, with the caption to the photo, as described earlier ? Being too "specific" is odd considernig the size of Cardiff, but oh well.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chewbakadog (talk • contribs) 04:56, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

text: Apologies, but I thought all articles were free for anyone to edit? What's all this about "edit warring"  and "stopping by just to force this information into it"? Why do you think it's "an argument"? You reverted me once and asked me to use the Talk Page, which is what I've done. I think your reaction is quite over-the-top. I'm quite happy to abide by consensus. But your opinion about birthplace address is just an opinion, and not based on any policy I can find. User:Chewbakadog makes a sound suggestion for compromise. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:49, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

text: Yes.  It is not customary to list the full address.  There are far more articles without the full address at WP:FA. A similar example would be Noël Coward.  But what I was objecting to was that this drive-by editor, who has never previously shown any interest in this article, knowing that another editor objected to adding the information, added it back in violation ow WP:BRD.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:23, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: In the FA biographical articles I have been closely involved with we have mentioned the address when it is of particular significance (e.g. we mention John Barbirolli's because we also say that he reckoned his place of birth qualified him as a cockney) but have generally otherwise omitted it: e.g. for JB's fellow musicians Adrian Boult, Thomas Beecham, Benjamin Britten, Frederick Delius et al. On the whole I think is a sensible policy: it is our job as editors to home in on the essentials, and to my mind the precise address of a subject's birth is usually inessential. To say in the main text that Delius was from Bradford (a larger town than Cardiff if I correctly read their WP articles) has seemed sufficient to PR and FAC reviewers, and to my mind it suffices, mutatis mutandis, for Novello. It is reasonable to include the address in the caption of the picture of the building, but as Novello was British we should use British English rather than the Americanism "on Such-and-Such Street". As to the BRD aspect, I think Ssilvers's point is correct. – Tim riley talk  15:48, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess being born anywhere in Cardiff qualifies one as a Taffy. But being born a few hundred yards from the banks of the river might qualify one slightly more.  W. H. Davies' birthplace address gets a mention as there is a story behind it. But generally, I think the location of any blue plaque deserves a mention somewhere in the article. The image caption seems quite an appropriate place. I rather resent being told that I'm  passing by an article just to "force something" into it. Editors sometimes get very protective of articles to which they have contributed most. But thanks for such a warm welcome. Another one off the watchlist, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:39, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I really don't know what you are talking about.  The name of the street on which Novello was born (the location of the blue plaque, is stated in the article, in the caption of the image of the house.  Please stop edit warring, and please read WP:OVERLINK. As a longstanding editor here, you should understand it. If you resent being called out on it, then don't do it.  Editors sometimes behave badly with respect to articles where they have contributed least, which is rather more surprising! -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:03, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I think your notion of "edit warring" is others adding things you don't like. Good luck with your article, Ssilvers. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:12, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthplace address 

message: Why is "He was born into a musical family, and his first successes were as a songwriter" preferable to "Born into a musical family, his first successes were as a songwriter"? Which syntax is actually "simpler" here? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Because WP:BROKE. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:45, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Because WP:OWN. -- Martinevans123 (talk) 20:47, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I simply disagree with your change and have reverted it.  Per WP:BRD, if you want to change it, then build a consensus here to do so. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:05, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Had you considered nominating your article for WP:GA? You might find a range of views on both its content and style. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:10, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not "my" article.  I never nominate articles for GA unless I possess books about the subject. In this case, I do not, so I am not, in my opinion, well-positioned to improve the article much beyond where it is now. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:12, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we'd have to agree on your opinion there. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:16, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

text: This is basic copy editing, nothing to do with WP:BROKE. "Born into a musical family, his first successes were as a songwriter"? improves the article's readability and, therefore, should be re-instated. Daicaregos (talk) 10:30, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  Both sentences are clear enough to the average reader.  But the point can be made that in the "Born into a musical family, his first successes were as a songwriter" version, the subject of the sentence is "his first successes" - so the subordinate clause "Born into . . ." refers to those successes and not to Mr.Novello.  Grammatically, I prefer the more direct version.2600:1700:77C1:1E70:147F:6126:25AE:B8A0 (talk) 19:59, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simpler syntax 

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thread_title:  External links modified