Talk:Fisting

message: Isn't it time we removed filth like this from the internet? Also a fictional act such as the one described herein is hardly "encyclopedic".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.111.63.147 (talk) 11:25, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No it isn't time we removed material like this from the internet, neither is it fictional.--feline1 (talk) 18:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides. oh IP user, Wikipedia is WP:NOT Censored for anyone.  Even kids; don't like it? Don't look at it :)  Thor Malmjursson (talk) 01:07, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Fictional act...? I beg to differ. I have personal experience with fisting being a completely possible act... o.o Jcmcc450 (talk) 02:09, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Fisting (sometimes called handballing -- why isn't that term listed in the article?) is potentially lethal. The inserter must have closely and smoothly trimmed nails that are thoroughly pared, and his or her hands must be extremely clean. A tear or puncture of the rectal wall could be fatal. There is probably little danger to the anal ring, though, as it can stretch a ridiculous amount when the insertee is thoroughly relaxed. If you don't believe this, rent some videos. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 00:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Updated to include reference from the book Trust, the Hand Book: A Guide to the Sensual and Spiritual Art of Handballing K8 fan (talk) 18:21, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delete? 

message: The request above for a section on the risks of this act is very reasonable.  I shall initiate such a section.
Warren Zhang (talk) 03:20, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Risks 

message: are editors using a still-animated pic for illustrations of this sexual act? Is it that bad of a taboo that it cannot be shown graphically? I thought Wikipedia was uncensored. LaRouxEMP (talk) 12:41, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The photograph that was removed did not show anything that was immediately and obviously connected to fisting. It merely showed the two orifices of a female photographic subject that may or may not have been connected to the subject of this article. Also, the drawing currently used conveys the topic well and should only be replaced if the replacement improves the encyclopedia reader’s understanding of the topic. Greater “graphicness” is not necessarily an improvement. — SpikeToronto 18:00, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why the hell 

message: Needs work.  TyrS  chatties  02:08, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: So, do the work! Drive-by application of templates, rather than rolling up your sleeves, dusting off your keyboard, and getting down to writing doesn’t really help. — SpikeToronto 06:15, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: On re-reading the above, I realize that it sounds rather peevish. I did not intend that. Let me put it another way: When you say, “Needs work,” what would you like to see done to the section? Would you feel confident about improving the section yourself? Perhaps drafting a new version in your userspace for review and eventual incorporation? Thanks! — SpikeToronto 06:51, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Techniques" 

message: Currently the focus is almost exclusively on women doing vaginal fisting, with an extensive list of porn actresses and no mention or illustration of men self-fisting or getting fisted. Please do not remove the Unbalanced box without discussion here.  TyrS  chatties  02:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Unbalanced template has been incorrectly applied. That template and its application are subsumed by one of Wikipedia’s core policies: Wikipedia:Neutral point of view (shortcut → WP:NPOV). Thus,  is used in those instances where one suspects an intention motivated by mala fides. I do not believe that there was ever such an animus with this wikiarticle. Rather, I think that no one has yet contributed the male-as-fistee viewpoint/perspective. Nor has anyone added such gay porn fisting luminaries as the glorious Ashley Ryder. But, that doesn’t mean that their absence from the article is a result of undue weight having been intentionally given to the female-as-fistee viewpoint/perspective at the expense of the male-as-fistee viewpoint/perspective. Rather, it is just that the article currently lacks sufficient breadth. Some form of section expansion template might have been more appropriate.I do agree, TyrS, that you have hit upon something that this article lacks and that is the male-as-fistee perspective. If you have a yen to see it added, why not write up such a section? It would certainly lend greater breadth to the article. (But, can you imagine the edit war that would ensue if there were any such images added to article?! Sheesh!) — SpikeToronto 06:36, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Errrrrr, why do we even have a list of porn actors/actresses that have done fisting at some point in their carreer. That's not encyclopedic. We should include only people that have secondary sources mentioning that the person is notable in the field of fisting due to some specific reason. Currently, there is no such a source in the article, so we should remove the whole section. --Enric Naval (talk) 10:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very, very lopsided presentation 

message: I started the discussion regarding this image and I would like to clarify a few things so we can speedily reach consensus.
#. My original request was to remove the image because it is a bad picture ( a man with an unpleasant rash plus the pic is not well focused, our readers deserve better).
#. I am not objecting the contents of the current picture, I will be happy with a more pleasant picture of at least a healthy individual, a few ones have been proposed and I am fine with them.
#. The objection to the contents of the current image should not be the reason why the image should be removed. This is the fisting article and a reader should expect an image on the topic. 
#. The discussion is turning into a gay vs straight kind of thing. This is an open project so everyone is welcome to put their own fisting pics if you like, all I am saying is that at least it should be a pic that you look at and don't feel so grossed out like the current one. In my opinion it makes no difference if it is in the ass or a vagina, fisting is more about the fist than the orifice. You could get fisted in your mouth for all i care, but the bottom line should be just to have one or two pics, of good quality, nice focus and at least a healthy skin. 
Thanks --Camilo Sanchez (talk) 06:19, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Deliberate break

message: Could someone please remove the image currently in discussion above at least while the discussion is going on please? Barts1a | Talk to me | Yell at me 23:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Reactivating request. It seems to me that consensus of the RfC is to remove the image. Barts1a | Talk to me | Yell at me 04:32, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Not done: Please wait until the RFC is actually closed by an uninvolved party. Anomie⚔ 12:42, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from [[User:barts1a|barts1a]] 

message: Separate from the above discussion, does the image of the gloves in the gallery really add to the article? The caption is overly long, and should probably be moved to the body of the article - if you need that much text to show relevance to the article either it's not relevant or the article is missing something. If a picture is necessary, it's a low quality image and doesn't explain why a fisting glove is any different to a normal PVC glove (is it?) - if it isn't different, would something like :File:PVC-Handschuh.jpg be better? Thryduulf (talk) 00:56, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: *I was going to say almost exactly the same thing but didn't have the chutzpah to do so in such a contentious discussion (not this sub-discussion, but generally).--Bbb23 (talk) 01:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

text: ** Agree. Not a source in sight. --JN466 03:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gloves image 

message: Why don't we just remove filth like this from the internet?! It's disgusting!
---68.103.24.102 (talk) 04:11, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not censored. Sorry. -- MST☆R    (Chat Me!) 04:14, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delete? 

message: Which version of the article image set is better The current version as of 03:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC+8) or the version as of 18:00, 14 February 2012 (UTC+8)? Barts1a / What did I actually do right? / What did I do wrong this time? 00:01, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: How is a 2nd vaginal Pic a substitute for an anal Pic? They are completely different. what good is two vaginal pics? CTJF83 07:02, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The version as of 1800 has only ONE vaginal pic. The drawing is removed in that version. Please click before you judge thanks! Barts1a / What did I actually do right? / What did I do wrong this time? 07:20, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

text: If they're that bad (and they are), then they shouldn't be used at all. You wouldn't put an overexposed, blurry picture of a diseased, mangy, three-legged dog with his tail cropped out of the frame as the picture for some article on an obscure breed of dog, even if none other were available. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 09:32, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually we would if there was consensus that having the picture added encylopaedically to the article. In this case, the first RfC explicitly concluded that having the current pictures does add value to the article and that they should be used until something better is available. Thryduulf (talk) 12:29, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image RfC 2.0 

message: Why is it that the image of a woman engaging in fisting is an illustration, and the male image is a photo? Could this be a double standard? Should we introduce an illustration to replace the photo for the male, if only for the sake of consistency, and to eliminate any double standards? Cr@$h3d@t@t@1k t0 m3 09:27, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not double standard they are simply the best pictures of each act currently available and having one as a photo is greatly illustrative of the topic. There are more pictures at the commons and you may seek further graphics depicting fisting to meet your educational needs there.LuciferWildCat (talk) 23:06, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Why did you indent so much? And I don't have any issue with the current images other than one is a drawing and the other is a photo, which in my view, at first glance at least appears to be a double standard. I really don't want to scour the commons to find images of fisting though.... Eww. I just was wondering when I found this page to beginning. Cr@$h3d@t@t@1k t0 m3 22:57, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  I was wondering why there are only photos of women. Seems like men are squeamish. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 01:38, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image double standard 

message: Someone should mention shoulder-deep anal fisting and all the info about it.72.82.180.111 (talk) 23:28, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about this? 

message: Firstly, I appeal to the human behind posting the articles and images not the author hiding behind the technical policies and codes on this matter, I'm sure this has been debated and discussed and could be done elsewhere but im doing what i can here and now where i can. This is important. It is not to anyone's significant disadvantage to resolve this issue, but to a majorities advantage, and I ask that you take a closer look at your moral compasses and regardless of what is allowed on Wikipedia by their standards or not, I ask that you would "just do what is right" and don't be a rock in everyone's shoe. Just because you technically can do something it does not mean its right or that you should do it. Again, this is important, perhaps more than you can entirely realize. With far reaching negative effects and consequences.
Secondly, Images for sexuality information on Wikipedia is not necessary. A description is enough. Cartoon pictures do not make it any less inappropriate. Wikipedia is not a How-to manual it is an Encyclopedia. The indecent pictures to these pages could not possibly have been put up by a serious responsible minded researcher and author. Along side information content, Wikipedia should stand for equal access opportunity and consideration for the whole community of users.
Minors could access this and or be exposed to it by other minors and it would constitute carnal knowledge. Whether its allowed or not, you are the one responsible for allowing that to be possible to happen. Think of the children. Everyone should be considered, the Wikipedia encyclopedia should be created for our children, everyone's children and all the future generations of children for educational purposes first and foremost for the education of our young learning minds, who do not need to be exposed to this material in graphical form.
I cant believe I have to be even trying to fight against this. Whoever put these sexuality pages up is inconsiderate for starters but to put up the images and to defend themselves for it is really inconsiderate, irresponsible and inappropriate.
I first cam across these sexuality articles with sexually explicit images a few months ago, here today I cannot believe they are still here, I would have thought moderators in the Wikipedia community would have more decency and better discernment than to have it still displayed as it is.
I'm sure most people, most of the intelligent, honest, self respecting, considerate and responsible people out there, would all agree that the user that has put these pictures along the articles, has not done so in a purely innocent manner or an entirely scientific purpose either, surely they have had a laugh about it, it a big joke to them and everyone else is just a winger, just too straight, just selfish and want it removed because they have silly personal problems about it, I think the person that has the selfish personal interests problem is the author themselves. This information is useful but should be in a better location, not on Wikipedia, you could make a great website with all your content, but for the love of children and all humanity, even straight and conservative people, please not on Wikipedia the Free Encyclopedia, we could value your information contribution but your persistence in showing images approved only by a minority is selfish and not appreciated.
I think the person behind all these sexuality articles should use a more suitable outlet for their content, Wikipedia is not the place for explicit sexual content, I think they should go and make a website elsewhere on the internet where adult users can go and access this kind of information for themselves if they need it, it simply shouldn't be provided in a place where youth should also be respected users and have safe access to Wikipedia content, these articles could lead to Wikipedia not being allowed to be used in classrooms and schools and other places by youth otherwise it could.
Children should be able to learn about sexuality, but within reasonable limits and certain moderation and discretion should and could be exercised. It is not a majority of humans that engage in such activities, and it shouldn't be depicted and given as an impression that these kinds of sexual things are so normal and widely accepted that they can be completely publicly viewed, publicly shown and displayed. Furthermore, showing these images unnecessarily may give false impression that these kinds of things are just purely objective, that sexual acts are less than private, and desensitizes or demoralizes the personal and sacred side to human sexuality. This content is not universal and is not the norm and is not commonly accepted.
Children should have access to Wikipedia's wealth of information, I don't want my children seeing these images on Wikipedia that were put up by some irresponsible adult or pervert or both. Such content is damaging to young minds! and can do unrepairable damage their young developing phsyces and development. If people want to learn about this sort of thing they should find it elsewhere, Wikipedia should give innocent non explicit brief descriptions on these subjects if anything at all, but leave the excessively detailed descriptions and the pornographic adult only content out of it! 
To the user that has put images to these sexuality articles; "Please remove all the images"
To the Wikipedia community; "Please do what you can to help remove this adult only content"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.174.47.195 (talk) 09:44, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: When I was growing up the government said that it was wrong to "promote the teaching [...] of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship" which sounds uncannily like "it shouldn't be depicted and given as an impression that these kinds of sexual things are so normal and widely accepted". So for me personally I just can't accept an argument like "Such content is damaging to young minds!" without seeing some evidence. --holizz (talk) 14:21, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

text: See that link near the top of the page, where it says "Wikipedia is not censored."?  Read that.  It would have saved you a lot of typing.  If you still feel like typing more, you could try debating the actual policy over there (instead of this one page out of many you would find similarly disturbing) before you make more revisions that would likely be reverted accordingly. HalJor (talk) 22:51, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accessible by Minors 

message: The legal section lacks any info on U.S. obscenity law as regarding fisting depictions in porn films. For many decades, since the Supreme Court handed down the Miller decision, California and other states routinely prosecuted or threatened prosecution for depictions of fisting (anal or vaginal). As a result, most producers of porn avoided depictions of fisting during that time. In 1999, Seymore Butts (real name: Adam Glasser), the famous porn producer/director/star, made a porn video known as "Tampa Tushy Fest part 1", which featured vaginal fisting. Then Deputy L.A. city attorney Deborah Sanchezdecided to file charges of obscenity against him over the video due to inclusion of fisting in it. She argued that the video was filled with scenes that depict sexuality in "a patently offensive way." Mr. Glasser decided fight the charge in court, as he felt he could successfully demonstrate to the jury that fisting could not in this day and age be viewed patently offensive. Part of his argument rested on that fact that in 1999 fisting was common enough in gay and lesbian sex and was also growing in popularity among heterosexual couples. He was going to show several books legally sold in bookstore at the time that explained how to practice vaginal and anal fisting to demonstrate that it was no longer just some rare deviant practice anymore. Shortly before the trial was set to begin, he agreed to a settlement with the Los Angeles city attorney's office. In the teerms of the settlement he plead guilty to a public nuisance charge and paid a $1000 fine to a victims restitution fund. He also agreed to offer an edited version of "Tampa Tushy Fest, Part 1" for California buyers but was also free to sell the unedited version in California without fear of future obscenity charges." (source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/porn/prosecuting/casetowatch.html )  Since his victory, a number of other porn films with fisting in them have been produced by various porn studios and fisting porn has also become easy to access on the internet. The above link provides a good starting point for adding info about fisting related obscenity prosecutions in the U.S. but the article should include info on fisting in porn's legal status prior to 1999 and afterwards in the U.S. If I come across any further info then maybe I will write up a short paragraph or two on the legal situation of fisting in porn in the U.S. but I'm putting this out there for other to tackle too if they wish. --Cab88 (talk) 21:31, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legal section too UK focused; Needs U.S. legal info 

message: There doesn't appear to be anything in the referenced sources indicating that fisting was invented by gay men, with gay women following their example.  The source talks mainly about the genesis of the 'fisting scene' at the Catacombs, and how it was initially only open to gay men.  It does not state or imply that fisting was invented at that time, only that it was 'popularized' and a subculture formed around it.  
I can find at least one source that states "...fisting has been practiced in China and India for thousands of years." (The Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Women, Taormino, T.  https://books.google.com/books?id=wE4gAQAAIAAJ )
Regardless of the claim that fisting is "...perhaps the only sexual practice invented this century." (emphasis mine) it seems absurd to make claims about the "invention" of any sexual practice that isn't dependent on modern technology.  It would be more accurate to describe the history of the fisting subculture, and any earliest-known depictions or references to it. --Fievel Fisticuffs (talk) 06:43, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanx for the info Fievel Fisticuffs. Note that you are invited to be Bold and directly edit articles if you see anything else to improve in the future. That's how we all started. Alsee (talk) 01:21, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

text: [ WP:Edit conflict ]: As you can see with this edit, Alsee addressed your concerns. But I'm not comfortable with removing the "It was 'invented' by gay men, then adopted by women following the gay men's example" aspect since the existence of fisting is usually credited to gay male culture, and the History section's sources are largely about gay male culture. I'm not stating that we should keep that exact line, but I think we should be clear that fisting is considered to have originated in gay male culture. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:26, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:   Alsee (talk) 01:40, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't see this edit by you until after I tried to make this edit and got a WP:Edit conflict note. The way I have it worded is with respect to WP:Due weight.  A number of sources believe that fisting is a relatively new sexual practice, and usually attribute (or imply that) its initial existence is due to gay male culture. I'm not seeing other sources that state that "the practice dates back thousands of years." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:15, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Changed again here and here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:24, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

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replies: text: Checked, reverted, and removed dead link template because the link appears to be active now, with the expected material. – Robin Hood  (talk) 21:44, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: I there is a better quality image than :File:Anal fisting being performed on a male.jpg to illustrate male anal fisting, and that is :File:Self Fisting.jpg. It can also tie into including the possibility for self-fisting which is not currently covered in Techniques. Considering the current image is being partially obscured by large buttocks and is a poorer quality image, what are your thoughts on replacing it? Pabsoluterince (talk) 03:16, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems better. Zenomonoz (talk) 03:41, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

text: Done, added a blurred version on commons Zenomonoz (talk) 05:55, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that. Pabsoluterince (talk) 07:41, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing image of male fisting