Talk:An Lushan rebellion

message: Shall we move these page to An Lushan Rebellion despite the new title does not take Shi Siming into account? Google search of An Lushan Rebellion  yielded more English titled resuit than that of Anshi rebellion  kt2 14:30, 16 Sep 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: "An Lushan Rebellion" does turn up significantly more hits than "Anshi Rebellion" or "An-Shi Rebellion". So I agree with the move. --Menchi 01:57, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

text: done kt2 04:36, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: An Lushan Rebellion (Move 2003)

message: Good length and level of detail. Now it just needs organization, pictures, an infobox, and references. LordAmeth 16:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WP:MilHist Assessment

message: How did this manage to kill 36 million people? This article needs a few more details perhaps Woscafrench 22:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I second this - that was the question I can to this article with, and no explanation is provided. Sylvain1972 15:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Most likely due to starvation and a few to war casualties. Remember back then, farming was like treading on a wire, one failed harvest would be disastrous. A whole region might starve to death because of lack of food. When no one has food, stealing doesn't matter especially when you cannot find food to steal. Yialanliu (talk) 03:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

text: This is on the basis of census data.  Some historians suggest that post war census may have been a significant undercount.  Poetic evidence suggests that the war was very destructive and causing the death of 2/3rds of the population (from all causes) would not be inconceivable.  Read some of the poetry of Du Fu.  He, a well connected government official, describes learning that his daughter has died of starvation.  How much more so a regular family?  In other poem, he describes the capital, Changan, as an abandoned ruin.  (This poem contains the famous line 感時花濺淚 which is often (rather idiotically, in my opinion) translated "Even the flowers weep, in these hard times" or similar drivel, when a much better translation would be something like "seeing the flowers, I weep for our era", ie. the flowers growing through the pavement of the ruined city.) 63.107.91.99 (talk) 20:16, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Huh? 

message: This article seems to have a bias when compared with a recorded lecture I’ve listened to as well as to the page on An_Lushan.  In “From Yao to Mao, 5,000 years of Chinese history” Kenneth Hammond takes the position that the Confucian historians where strongly opposed to the power emperor Tang Xuanzhong gave to An Lushan who was not Chinese.  Also, the historians treated Yang Guifei unfairly because the emperor consulted her on matters of state.
I can think of 3 points which would be useful to resolve:
•	An Lushan wasn’t just non-Han Chinese, he was Turkish.
•	There is no evidence An Lushan was planning rebellion before he was ordered to the capitol.
•	An Lushan had reason to believe if went to the capitol he would be unjustly executed.
I intend write a polite letter to Prof. Hammond asking where I could find the sources he used.  Once I read the sources I hope update the article giving credence to both Historical perspectives.
--Pstaight 09:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternative Historical Perspectives

message: I am a bit puzzled by present name and suggest that the page be moved to An Lushan rebellion, as per WP:COMMON.--Amban (talk) 21:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. An-Shi rebellion is simply more occurate. 220.135.4.212 (talk) 19:54, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The common term in the English language is An Lushan rebellion.  I'm surprised it has not been moved after five years of polite suggestion and no "occurate" rebuttal.  Not even discussion.  In a few days I plan to move it myself. Huangdi (talk) 08:25, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh. I'd always heard it called "An Lushan rebellion" as well. Weird.--T. Anthony (talk) 19:25, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Again... "An Lushan Rebellion" brings up 10.800 pags. "An Shi Rebellion" results in 2,550 pages, and many of those simply link to this page.  It's disingenuous to search without quotations.  Now...can we get some momentum for moving the page?? Huangdi (talk) 08:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Move proposed (2008)

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
* Nominator personally I prefer An Lushan Rebellion, as I have seen it that way more often. 65.93.13.227 (talk) 11:50, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: *Looking it up Russian is using "An Lushan" not that that's necessarily relevant. Still I think I'm going to drop the "provisional" again.--T. Anthony (talk) 11:20, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

text: * We should not encourage the misconception (which I would not even call a "common" misconception since that is not how the Chinese community misconceives it) that An Lushan was the only leading figure of the rebellion by moving the article to a more inaccurate title.  --Nlu (talk) 15:40, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

text: At this vast of a contrast, it's not even an issue of popularity anymore. It's about usage.This article from a Chinese Reader illustrates how this cross-linguistic nuance should be handled: "The An Lushan R." is in the title (written along side 安史之亂 in this case), and explained later in the main text that it's called differently in Chinese historiography. --Menchi (talk) 21:16, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

text: An interesting point, I'll return to provisional.--T. Anthony (talk) 10:08, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

text: This is covered in detail at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese): we use Mao Zedong because the pinyin form of his name is now standard in English usage, but Chiang Kai-shek and Sun Yat-sen because those are still the common usage in English.  It's just an instance of the general naming policy.  Kanguole 10:42, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I thought I am late in participating in discussing the move. But by borrowing the analogy of Pugachev's Rebellion and Bulavin Rebellion on this site, I guess that An and Shi Rebellion or An Lushan and Shi Shiming Rebellion may be a suitable name of balancing the two aforementioned naming convention. -- Ktsquare (talk) 16:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Or An-Shi Rebellion, analogous to Croatian-Slovenian peasant revolt and An and Shi Rebellion, analogous to Spithead and Nore mutinies. -- Ktsquare (talk) 23:15, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the naming of this article 

message: I know wars with death tolls in the tens of millions are just disturbances to the Chinese but this was a pretty terrible war, even for China. Can we just call it a war? 69.171.160.99 (talk) 08:53, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no value judgement in the word 'war' or the phrase 'major societal disturbance and turmoil'. The latter only focusses more on the impacts, IMHO. Kayau (talk · contribs)  11:46, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The phrase is vague and uninformative – it could just as well cover widespread tax riots.  War isn't quite enough either, as you want to explain it was an internal conflict.  I've had a go at rephrasing.  Kanguole 17:58, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "a major societal disturbance and turmoil" 

message: I've removed citations of Matthew White (atrocitologist) as an unreliable source, in favour of the John Durand paper from which White got the census figures.  White's methodology (going by the number of households in the censuses, say half the the population disappeared, and then halve that again to be conservative) just doesn't belong in an encyclopedia.  Kanguole 23:56, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matthew White 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on An Lushan Rebellion. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050321202655/http://www.cgan.com:80/english/china-art/www/history/tang.html to http://www.cgan.com/english/china-art/www/history/tang.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:33, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: To add to this article: in the Yangzhou massacre (760), which was led by Tian Shengong (田神功), was Tian one of An's generals? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 07:38, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: To add to article

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* Tang Dynasty sancai pottery camel and man.JPG
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:13, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:11, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion