Talk:Hypnagogia

message: Hypnopompic is different - it happens while AWAKENING ... (while hypnagogic happens while falling asleep).  Please see: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=hypnopompic
Also, below is correct - hypnAgogic is much more common than hypnOgogic.
:Hypnopompic and hypnagogic are the same thing, they just happen at different times. All evidence about the two shows that they are an identical state. The begining of the book Hypnagogia by Andreas Mavromatis, which I mentioned below, attempts to resolve this issue. He states that in the past, hypnagogic experiences when going to sleep and awakening were misidentified as two different states, and that future writings on the subjects should just use the word "hypnagogia" to encompass both hypnagogic and hypnopompic experiences. Since it was not only the last significant work published on the subject but also the most encompassing work on the subject, I think we should follow his lead and not continue to break up the two. -GamblinMonkey 22:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I believe you are incorrect.  To say that "all evidence . . . shows that they are an identical state" is jibberish.  See Jones et al. (2009).  The article starts by pointing out that hypnagogic experiences occur during the wake-sleep transition while hypnopompic experiences are during the sleep-wake transition.  They are not identical.  Reference: Jones, S. R., Fernyhough, C., & Meads, D. (2009). In a dark time: Development, validation, and correlates of the Durham hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations questionnaire. Personality and Individual Differences, 46(1), 30-34. 184.145.50.248 (talk) 18:02, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just to add, the abstract of another article points out: "Hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations are visual, tactile, auditory or other sensory events, usually brief but sometimes prolonged, that occur at the transition from wakefulness to sleep (hypnagogic) or from sleep to wakefulness (hypnopompic)."  As stated, hypnagogic states occur from wakefulness to sleep, while hypnopompic states are from sleep to wakefulness. Reference: Kompanje, E. J. O. (2008). ‘The devil lay upon her and held her down’ Hypnagogic hallucinations and sleep paralysis described by the Dutch physician Isbrand van Diemerbroeck (1609–1674) in 1664. Journal of Sleep Research, 17(4), 464-467. 184.145.50.248 (talk) 18:06, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: hypnopompic

message: The main article should be "hypnagogia", and the variant spelling "hypnogogia" redirect to it, and not viceversa, because it's the former and not the latter which is the etymologically correct spelling. Check the AHD:
hypnagogic
Variant forms: also hypnogogic
Etymology: French hypnagogique, from Greek hupnos, sleep; see hypno– + Greek agōgos, leading (from agein, to lead; see ag- in Appendix I). 
http://www.bartleby.com/61/23/H0362300.html
Uaxuctum 17:35, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: As that extract says it's also from hypno .  I think it's alright as it is - Hypnagogia redirects here too. violet/riga (t) 17:53, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems you are not familiar with the way Greek and Latin compounds work. Hypno is not a Greek word; the compounded words are hypnos and agōgos, whose roots are hypn- and agōg-. The -os in hypnos and agōgos is a nominative singular ending (the citation form of Greek and Latin words). The -o- in hypno- is just the connective vowel used in Greek compounds (also in Slavic compounds) to avoid unmanageable consonant clusters (like hypn- + phob- + -ia --> hypnophobia instead of hypnphobia), and corresponds to the connective -i- of Latin compounds (as in centipede, from centum [root cent-] + pēs, pedis [root ped-]). That is, hypno- is the compounding form of the root hypn- to be used when the following component starts with a consonant. When the following component starts with a vowel, it's not the initial vowel of that second part what is to be dropped, because that vowel is part of its root and as such it is meaningful (unlike the connective vowel which is a mere meaningless epenthetic sound); so instead of dropping a meaningful vowel in order to add a meaningless epenthetic sound, the epenthetic vowel is simply not added in such cases. Thus, hypn[o]- + agog[o]- + -ia compounds properly as hypnagogia, while hypnogogia is a poorly formed variant introduced (probably prompted by a misunderstood analogy with hypnopompia) by people who were not aware that the second element in the compound was actually agog- with an initial a, and not just gog- (which is what the improper form hypnogogia would imply). Uaxuctum 18:54, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right - I have no idea about such compounds.  You seem to know a hell of a lot, so I say we go with you. violet/riga (t) 20:35, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Which spelling is more common in the medical literature?  Since this is an English encyclopedia, not a Greek encyclopedia, that should be at least as important a consideration as etymology in deciding where the article should be. CyborgTosser (Only half the battle) 00:33, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Google gives 44000 results for 'hypnagogic', 19400 for 'hypnogogic', 7540 for 'hypnagogia' and 4120 for 'hypnogogia', the first of which is this page. Therefore hypnagogia is the more common spelling and should be the title.--Army1987 12:25, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The OED concurs, as it ought to. Septentrionalis 17:35, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rename

message: It is not an uncommon occurrence with 30 to 40 percent of people suffering from it at least once in their lives. However, it can be a sign of other problems such as narcolepsy or temporal lobe epilepsy.
Can anyone point source for that?
:One source I used was from the website for the UK TV show Shattered, containing information from Chris French, Professor of Psychology at Goldsmiths' College, the University of London. violet/riga (t) 09:50, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they mistitled their article. They are talking about Sleep paralysis (SP), not hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucinations. SP might happen anytime in the night, while hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucinations, by definition, only happen when falling asleep/waking up (SP might be linked to hypnopompic hallucinations, but the former feels more like a full dream, than the later... -even if you might think you are awake). Mathieu Bonnet 20:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm pretty sure most everyone do experience hypnagogic (and hypnopompic) hallucinations multiple times in their life... It's just that most of time, the hallucinations are very limited (both in time and vividness), and people would just say they were "falling asleep"... (which is indeed what happens; I'm just trying to say people would just not remember this kind of experience as significiant, which explains the "30 to 40 percent"). Every kid who stay up later than usual, should have this kind of hallucinations, when trying to fight the need to sleep... (I often had limited hypnagogic hallucinations, when me and my family were visiting friends for dinner. Now, it happens only when I'm up for like 22 or 24 hours, or when may day was very tiring...). Mathieu Bonnet 20:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to a study in the book Hypnagogia by Andreas Mavromatis, the occurance was around 70-80% of adults have had hypnogogic experiences. They assumed the occurance was probably higher (possibly 100%) but many people either didn't take note of what was actually happening or they were hesitant to admit to hearing things like voices as it's generally considered a sign of being crazy. I don't have the book in front of me right now, so I can't directly quote it, but I read it a few months ago, I'll see if I can get my hands on another copy soon. -GamblinMonkey 22:43, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: PubMed (MEDLINE) has plenty of references. Start with , then try the new feature to find related articles. Jclerman 22:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: I see three interpretations of these experiences, and each could be expanded upon.
* physical
* psychological
* spiritual
The statement, Some of these people cling to old world beliefs that what is called a hypnagogic state is more than a psychological experience, and is a spiritual one. rejects the spiritual interpretation as passe.
--sparkit 04:23, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Interpretations of the phenomena

message: Hypnagogia differs from hypnosis in that under ordinary hypnosis, people are physically inactive, and generally find their mental stimulus to be absorbing to the point that they don't differentiate between that stimulus and reality. In hypnagogic states, a person may appear to be fully awake, but still has brain waves indicating that they are still technically sleeping. 
As far as I know, hypnotized people can appear fully awake and are sometimes physically active, while in hypnagogia people are not normally physically active. Am I wrong, or is the article wrong? 67.51.131.37 06:13, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  hypnosis vs. hypnagogia 

message: The hypnagogic state can be accompanied by or associated with anomalous <phenomena?> such as alien abduction, extra-sensory perception, telepathy, apparitions, or prophetic or crisis visions.
Consider change of PHENOMENA to NOUMENA. Phemomena are things outside the self, an observable event or physical manifestation, while noumena are things of the mind. 
Cite Noumenon From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
207.54.189.107 05:44, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's good to see someone with some knowledge of Kant deflating that pseudo-intellectual. The link was helpful too - I had no idea that the "onion layer" effect was associated with this, although I have experienced both together several times. Why is it so damn hard to wake up? 74.225.130.13 07:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consider change of PHENOMENA to NOUMENA. 

message: In case the reference to alien abduction and psychic phenomena aren't enough to set off alarm bells in people's heads, I'll just point out that User 207.54.189.107 clearly has no idea what the phenomenon/noumenon distinction actually amounts to, considering that he or she thinks that "noumena are things of the mind." If fact, this is entirely incorrect. The term "noumena" in fact refers to non-perceptual entities, or rather the aspects or attributes of entities which are beyond human perceptual or conceptual capabilities. This is the major innovation of Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason, which differentiated between the world as it is experienced (the world of phenomena, i.e., of things filtered through our human perceptual/conceptual apparatus) and the world as it is, in itself (the world of noumena). Thus, noumena are by definition not subject to being spoken of in positive terms, and so are obviously not "things of the mind," as User 207.54.189.107 would have it. Buck Mulligan 21:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's good to see someone with some knowledge of Kant deflating that pseudo-intellectual. The link was helpful too - I had no idea that the "onion layer" effect was associated with this, although I have experienced both together several times. Why is it so damn hard to wake up? 74.225.130.13 07:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect use of the term "noumenon"

message: who is the lame-O that removed the hypnagogic hallucinations page and made it redirect to hypnagogia?
as a chronic sufferer of sleep paralysis with accompanying hypnagogic hallucinations, the page provided comfort (along with reading up on forums and other sites) whenever i needed to go back and revisit it and read through all the characteristics that matched up with my experiences.. not to mention that it was a very informative page.
if the page must remain offline, can someone please at least provide all the text of that article so that i can save it on my own computer for my own personal reading?  i was not expecting that page to be removed.
Wow, you are are correct- the page is gone.  I was explaining to my group of friends about this subject just earlier tonight, and was wondering why Wikipedia had less information about Hypnagogic Hallucinations than I remembered, and now realize that it is because this page has been deleted.  I, too, would use this page as a reference to compare my experiences with.  What kind of silly reason would someone have to take down the page?  It was one thousand times more scientific and informative than hundreds of other Wiki articles dealing with extremely unfounded and pointless "neo-post-pre-tech-psych-modernist" pseudo-studies on extreme sliver factions and micro fringe groups that only hypothetically exist in someone's version of our popular culture.  Put the page back up.   
-David (thepremieremusic@hotmail.com)
I noticed the removal and came to this page to comment and protest. Wiki used to have a great article on hypnagogic hallucinations that I often referred to. I don't understand why it was removed. Please put it back up! 63.228.151.114 11:38, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  what's up with the removal? 

message: I am new to this, so please forgive any mistakes in protocol.  I just wanted to add an Arts/Culture Reference and I am not sure how to do it:  There is an interesting description of hypnagogia in the novel Green Man by Kingsley Amis.  It is a ghost story in which the narrator suffers from the condition and is therefore uncertain as to whether he is seeing supernatural beings.Salome55 23:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Jclerman 03:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: arts and culture

message: I recommend that the article Hypnic_jerk be merged into this article.--roger6106 23:23, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Too late... It's endemic now...Like the pox was, now every single word gives origin to an info-pox. Soon the area covered by the info-poxes will cover every byte and the underlying patient will no be seen and even a pox for "redirect" will erupt... Jclerman 20:48, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger Proposal 

message: I don't have much to say on the scientific end of this phenomena, nor do I believe a full "merge" is necessary.  I think links suffice, as with other conditions that have several symptoms or possible correlations or just connections to other topics. I have spent hours following links, learning about all sorts of topics.
I happen to experience hypnagogia almost every night, so I can speak from experience. In this state, I am fully aware of my surroundings. I can even tell you what was on the television and which episode or what was being talked about, but I am fully asleep in paralysis and can drift off back to full sleep or awaken by choice.  If I choose a wakened state it takes a bit more work to get out of the paralysis. I use the pushing all my energy to my little finger technique which seems to work. Let me explain a little more.  
For many years, I worked to teach myself lucid dreaming and how to have obe's.  At some point, I began noticing that I would enter a state where I wasn't really sleeping. My body was asleep and I couldn't move it, but part of my mind was fully aware of the thoughts and dreams I was having. In the beginning, it was much like being an actor in a movie. At some point, when not even trying to enter this state, I would enter it automatically. It used to be terrifying, but now only occasionally. The hypnic jerk can sometimes accompany the event if I am further in a sleep state, but never if I'm hypnagogic.  I think it's my body or minds automatic way of attempting to "jump" out of an unpleasant state.  I also experience incubus/succubus activity almost daily.  That never loses it's horrific effects on me. Being the victim of rape when I was only 13, I sometimes wonder if it's not my psyche attempting to find "control" over that kind of event, but there are too many other factors to make me believe it's very real.  But of course, that's discussion for a different forum. All I know about that is that I have no control over it and I can "feel" a presence. My body even moves to it's touch, as in when it lies upon me, my stomach pushes down and my hips rise when it pulls them up. Gross huh?
I always find comfort in hearing more scientific explanations for what's happening to me. I am a college educated mother, wife and employee. I live a very simple life with the exception of my paranormal fascination that I've carried with me for over 20 years since reading Steven LaBerge's "Lucid Dreaming"; the book that started my journey into the sleep realm.
I sometimes wish, now, that I had never begun. I feel like a traveller without a map and my guide (LaBerge) is too big to find for help. Yes, as silly as it sounds, I've attempted to contact the Lucidity Institute and Mr. LaBerge for help.
In closing, I think that connections are definate between the experiences. But one doesn't have to "merge" them to find all information.  They ARE NOT the same thing and by no means does the hypnic jerk always happen when a hypnagogic state is reached. If that were true, it would save my mind much misery.  I would immediately awaken upon reaching that state and not have to be aware of the terrible things I experience almost daily.
All I'm really saying is that "merging" anything like this is not good.  It balls up two separate phenomena into one. Links are fine.  Sorry I'm all over the place, I just woke up.
Gypsymantis 12:34, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I heard LaBerge's paper before he wrote the book. There is nothing paranormal, you describe the results of normal physiological activity. There are ways to decrease their frequency, but this place is only to discuss the text of the article. You can email me for further discussion (see my user page). Jclerman 15:40, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Just some personal thoughts on the merge

message: Hi all, I've added templates to include this article in the wiki projects of WP:NEURO and WP:MED.  Nk.sheridan   Talk 21:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've also just added the WP:PSYCHOLOGY template.   Nk.sheridan   Talk 22:00, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Projects

message: :Sorry, I'm not an experienced wikipedia editor. That being said, I had to point this out. Form constants, according to wikipedia are NOT entoptic phenomena. 
:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entoptic
:At the bottom, under "phenomena of the visual system," under the section "other," you will find form constants listed. Someone with knowledge in the subject please fix this, it was really bugging me because as far as I know, form constants do not originate in the eye itself.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.169.72.173 (talk) 06:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: entoptic phenomena

message: Our article hippocampus appears to contradict the reference (which is a popular-media interview of a single scientist, not a very reliable source) of there being two memory storage areas, one in the neocortex and the other in the hippocampus.  This will need to be sorted out with more reference checks and one or the other sections rewritten. -- Beland (talk) 03:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Which bit specifically of Hippocampus contradicts this? I'm not an expert on neurology, but to my inexperienced eye, much of it seems rather to confirm, or nuance, Stickgold's statement. In particular, the section "Role in memory" says "Damage to the hippocampus does not affect some types of memory, such as the ability to learn new motor or cognitive skills (playing a musical instrument, or solving certain types of puzzles, for example). This fact suggests that such abilities depend on different types of memory (procedural memory) and different brain regions." The Hippocampus article also specifically refers to episodic memory as something the hippocampus is responsible for, in agreement with this article. And in the "Sharp waves" section it mentions a theory about interaction between the hippocampus and neocortex, characterising both as areas where memories are stored. Dependent Variable (talk) 13:39, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the disputed tag for now, as there haven't been any further objections. Dependent Variable (talk) 07:31, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy of "Amnesia" section 

message: I removed:
:Similarly, the teenaged Karl Gauss obtained an insight during a hypnagogic reverie into how to construct a 17-sided polygon.
but maybe this can be salvaged.  Rothenberg (cited re benzene ring) p. 421 says Gauss "actually reported that he developed the laws of induction on first awakening in the morning."  It cites Gauss, C. F. (1933). Works (Vol. 5). Gottingen, Germany: W. F. Kaestner, (Original work published 1863); p. 609. 69.228.171.150 (talk) 09:09, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Dunnington in "Gauss, Titan of Science" also comments on this.  The note on p. 609 of Gauss's Works just says "Das Inductiongesetz (Gefunden 1835. Januar 23. Morgens 7u v.d. Aufst)" tr. "The law of induction (discovered January 23, 1835 at 7 a.m. before getting up)".  I do vaguely remember some story about Gauss figuring out the 17-gon construction while daydreaming, and might try to chase it down.  It might be in E. T. Bell's Men of Mathematics, a notoriously unreliable book. 69.228.171.150 (talk) 18:54, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  gauss 17-gon 

message: I agree, Threshold consciousness could redirect here. Dependent Variable (talk) 07:30, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: It has been suggested that Threshold consciousness be merged into this article or section.

message: As it is right now, the first "sentence" in the intro section of the article is just "hypnagogia" in bold, followed by the parenthetical etymology of the word. Perhaps it and the following sentence should read as something like "Hypnagogia [etymology] is the transitional state between wakefulness and sleep (i.e. the onset of sleep); Alfred Maury originally coined the adjective "hypnagogic" to describe this state." Currently, it's not a sentence. --V2Blast (talk) 02:31, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  First "sentence" is not a sentence (just the title/etymology) 

message: It's an understatement to say that these 'In popular culture'-style sections lack detail, so I'm moving them here until someone more expansive comes along.
:==Hypnagogia in film==
:* Dracula
:* Ghostbusters
:* Marianne
:* Paranormal Activity
:==Hypnagogia in  literature==
:* "After Apple-Picking" by Robert Frost
K2709 (talk) 23:02, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  I've removed the film and literature sections 

message: Lede:  Well, is hypnagogia the state or the study of the state? —Tamfang (talk) 06:15, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  pick one 

message: I've removed his name from the list of artists and scientists who 'have credited hypnagogia and related states with enhancing their creativity' because of doubts whether the recent addition of his name is actually supported by the work originally cited, Runco & Pritzker's Encyclopedia of Creativity. If I'm wrong about this, please reinsert his name. Thanks. Meticulo (talk) 23:05, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Paul McCartney

message: Slipping into blissful relaxation 2A00:23C5:C394:2401:C33:AD41:EDF0:9EB0 (talk) 10:33, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hypnagogic