Talk:Métis in Canada

message: I moved this page here for the reason given at Talk:Métis. John FitzGerald 01:15, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Page move

message: Is there a source for this term? I've done considerable reading on Metis history and have not come across it anywhere else. I doubt its validity, the anglo-metis peoples were commonly known as countryborn, native english, mixed bloods, halfbreeds, or by francophones as les metis anglais during the 19th century. Wyldkat 9:08, 12, Nov 2006
I've heard 'black' used as a nickname for one trapper in Canada who spoke metis. Via my extended family
from the Iceland-Canadian settlements I've heard mention of a relative as "Black John" who took Metis
as his second language as a career decision, first language being Icelandic. AnimalNorth (talk) 14:36, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Black Scots?

message: I seem to remember a language called Bunge or Bungee (pronounced BUN-gee?) which was a mixture of Cree/Obibway and Scot Gaelic spoken by Metis of Scottish origin.  Anyone know anything about it?  I can't find a thing online, but I thought it might be worth a mention on here.  Although, perhaps the lack of evidence is proof it shouldn't be mentioned..... CWood 23:54, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Article has been written, maybe by you who knows: Bungee; could probably use expansion, more examples if anyone has any.Skookum1 17:40, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bunge?

message: How come there's a separate article for the word Métis? The modern ethnic group in North America is already dealt with in Métis people, and the use of this French word to refer to people elsewhere is explained under Mestizo. If that article is intended to refer to anyone of part-French ancestry from Indochina to the Pacific to the Caribbean, then I think it should be much more explicit about that. //Big Adamsky 21:34, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is about the political organization and distinct heritage of the "traditional Metis", as opposed to Canadian constitutional language's use of the word to mean "anyone of proven native and non-native lineage", what we used to be able to call a halfbreed.  The Metis Nation does not include a lot of the latter people, who have no links to the particular mixing of peoples in the Prairies and adjoining regions of BC and ON that produced a distinct culture and people; who are the Metis Nation.  Confusingly "Metis" does not necessarily mean only members of the "Metis Nation".  Myself I'm a bit taken aback to see BC included among their "homeland" as the Metis Nation were only involved in early BC as employees of the fur companies and hirelings of the explorers; some may have been out here ("out here" means on this side of the mountains) but I guess they mean up in the Peace River Block - our chunk of the Prairies.Skookum1 17:06, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge?

message: It was blank, so I put in the # my book said.
Cameron Nedland 04:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Population

message: Is he really partially Metis? I have not read anything like that about him from any of the websites. Can someone please verify or confirm this fact? AWDRacer 20:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Paul Martin

message: I don't believe that the Canadian government recognized the Metis until after the rebellion had been underway for quite some time. The statement stating that the feds had already recognized them as a legitimate government is incorrect, I believe. Please confirm or disprove. Homagetocatalonia 10:27, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recognition

message: The article says that the Metis were the first to use saddles.  That is certainly not true worldwide, and that should be clarified.195.221.241.130 19:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarify?

message: I too came here to comment on the following 
   Metis people were famous for their horsemanship and breeding of horses. They were the first people to use saddles and to have horse races. 
Does the author mean the first of the indigenous peoples? If not, then this statement about 'the first people to use saddles and to have horse races' must be wrong, as europeans bought the horse to america in the 15th century.
The Metis people didn't even exist until the seventeenth century-- a few thousand years after the development of saddles. I'm assuming that horseraces date back to antiquity. I'm taking this out Stevecudmore 21:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Saddles?

message: For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all  infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "related groups" info removed from infobox

message: What's the rationale? The Sioux have a borderland history much like the Métis' (see David G. McCrady, Living with Strangers: The Nineteenth-Century Sioux and the Canadian-American Borderlands (Lincoln, NE: University of Nebraska Press, 2006)), but Wikipedia doesn't have separate articles for "Sioux (Canada)" and "Sioux (USA)". The Métis have traditionally lived close to the national border and crossed it frequently. It would make more sense to have one article on "Métis people" with a section on "Métis experiences in the United States." Llajwa 20:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this is puzzling to me as well.  Considering how poor the Métis people (USA) article is, I see no reason there should not be a merger of both articles, to be renamed Métis people (North America).  Any thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 21:12, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've placed a  tag on the USA page, I totally agree, it would just be duplicated content. I don't even see the need to put (North America). Just calling it Métis people should suffice. -- Chabuk [ T • C ] 20:13, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Slightly oppose - something to keep in mind is that in Canada, Metis are considered an aboriginal people. They have a distinct culture. In the USA, most of the use of the term Metis refers to people of indigenous and non-indigenous backgrounds. There is rarely any cultural component, and virtually no common tie in. If the two articles are merged, this distinction should be emphasized in the new article. --Kmsiever 21:59, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there good sources on this? My sense was that some US communities that are genealogically linked to Canadian Metis, like the Turtle Mountain people (mixed French-Ojibwa-Cree, speak Mitchif), call themselves Indians rather than Metis. (See Gerhard J. Ens, “After the Buffalo: The Reformulation of the Turtle Mountain Metis Community, 1879-1905,” in New Faces of the Fur Trade (1998), 139-152.) Llajwa 22:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added the  tag to this article to complete the proposal.  I support the merger, and I understand your concerns Kmsiever, though I agree with Llajwa that there is commonality between the Métis in the US and those in Canada.  Any differences in terminology can be dealt with in the "new" article.  You are probably right, Chabuk, that the (North America) is unnecessary, I am simply uncertain as to whether the term "métis" is used anywhere else in the world. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 23:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

text: So, where are we on this question, folks?  Overall, the feeling was that this should be done, provided that it is done right.  So, shall we? ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 03:31, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Oppose for the reasons Skookum stated. Fremte 00:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Métis people (Canada)]] and [[Métis people (USA)]]

message: Why is Quebec not mentioned at all (except in the name of an external link)? Badagnani (talk) 02:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Quebec

message: "The Métis (pronounced /ˈmeɪtɨs/ "MAY-tis" in English" must surely be wrong: the citation for this statement is the Oxford English Dictionary, but that has to be of only marginal relevance given that the vast majority of Métis are in Canada. In my current overseas location I don't have a current Oxford Canadian Dictionary or other Canadian reference text at hand but I certainly well recall the universal merriment that greeted former premier Ross Thatcher of Saskatchewan pronouncing the word as the Wikipedia article suggests is correct ("Métis at Tim Horton's for coffee eh?") The OED is British English; it is Canadian English that is appropriate here. Masalai (talk) 05:41, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree with this. All the Métis I know pronounce it "MAY•tee". I don't know a single person who pronounces it "MAY•tis". --Kmsiever (talk) 06:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: The opening says this:
:The Métis are descendants of marriages of Cree, Ojibway, Algonquin, Saulteaux, and Menominee aboriginals to Europeans, 
While in the "little-M Metis" section it says this:
:Little 'm' métis refers to those who are of mixed native and other ancestry, and is essentially a racial definition. Big 'M' Métis refers to a particular sociocultural heritage and an ethnic self-identification that is not entirely racially based.
Both of the statements in the second item are clearly synthesis, i.e. analysis unsupported by documentation and imputed by the contributor's own notions/ideas.  But how can a definition based in a "particular sociocultural heritage and...ethnic self-identification NOT be racially-based??  If someone is part-Tlingit and part-Norwegian, or part-Secwepemc and part-Ukrainian, but not part-Ojibway/part-Norwegian or part-Saulteaux/part-Ukrainian, how is that not a racial distinction??.  Small-m metis are how "we" (non-aboriginals) are supposed to refer to "halfbreeds" now, since that term has been adjudged to be racist/offensive.  Distinguishing between capital-M Metis and small-m Metis is what seems clearly to be "racially based", not the other way around.  I respect that the constitutional guarantees for Metis that were made in recent years were meant as a redress for the historic Metis community, but we were told (the rest of us) that "metis" would now mean all peoples of proven part-aboriginal heritage, not just from specific traditional-Metis aboriginal iineages  Cree, Ojibway, Algonquin, Saulteaux, and Menominee - or the traditional Scots or Irish or French Canadian "European" heritage - "small-e european" perhaps, to distinguish from the older meaning of European).  Matter of fact, I have a friend who does have a Metis card but who is not from the stated exclusive groups - her aboriginal ancestors were Kwantlen.  In light of this, much of the content of this article seems POV, as discriminating against people who are constitutionally Metis, or might be, because they are not from teh approved groups that the core/traditonial Metis organizations/intellectuals do not want to admit to.  Either a new term is come up with for small-m metis - and I mean a new term constitutinoally, not in Wikipedia - or this article should be more sensitive about relegating people from the "wrong" ethnic backgrounds to a lesser status.  Again, the "racial logic" of the two quoted items is contradictory, also POV and I think you ahve to agree between those two quotes is also contradictory.Skookum1 (talk) 13:53, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: POV/contradictory wording

message: I find it interesting that the headline section states: Their (Métis) homeland consists of the Canadian provinces of British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec, as well as the Northwest Territories.
As a Métis living in Nova Scotia and a member of the Eastern Woodland Métis Nation, I find this hard to belived. So have I been mislead by my father & grandfather all these years? Or does the fact that this statement was posted on Wikipedia inform me that I am not a Métis person. I know of several other Nations in Atlantic Canada. Just a bit of a refresher on your facts: the first marriages between European and Native People of this land happened right here in Nova Scotia in the 1600s! Most of this article appears to have been inflenced by the Métis National Council (MNC), especialy when you read their website and read this article. The MNC is simply an organization in itself and not the sole voice for the Métis people, nor is the organization appointed by the government as the principal interest group for Métis people. MNC is simple a group of Nations... an association. They seem to feel that Eastern Métis do not exist. Wikipedia sounds alot like the Canadian government... telling us who we are, when we already know who we are. Digby 12.177.4.134 (talk) 23:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: No Metis in Eastern Canada??

message: Made small edit to remove a vulgar comment. Xikipedia (talk) 20:35, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed graffiti.

message: Started this "Ethnic Series sidebar template" to bring together some of the main topics related to the aboriginal peoples of Canada so that the articles stand alone and do not overlap each other in content.  What is your opinion? SriMesh | talk 03:59, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Series Sidebar

message: Why is the NWT Metis Nation (http://www.nwtmetisnation.ca/) not recogized as part of the larger Metis group?--207.6.238.214 (talk) 04:40, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: NWT Metis Nation

message: Metis doesn't need an accent in English. It may have come to English via French at some point, but it originated in Romanic or Latin and got the accent from French. The Canadian Oxford Dictionary observes it as an English word with no accent. Examples of its use in English are found dating back to the early 1800s. English doesn't generally use accents on words it has accepted. It seems that in recent years, the accent has been resurfacing in media, almost as an affectation rather than just an error. Using the accent in an English Wikipedia article doesn't help. Rgsswpg (talk) 17:31, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  Métis in Canada has an accent because it was coined by the French settlers. I also think dropping the accent ignores the history of the word and the people. The original term métis, coined by habitants, referred to the offspring of a male French-voyageurs and female Native American.  They are the ones who ended up founding what is now known as the Métis Nation. The generic term métis can be used without an accent.Murmullo (talk) 20:00, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Métis or Metis

message: DNA research is confirming that many Cajun people of Louisiana (whose ancestors originally migrated from Quebec) have Metis DNA markers. Adding a section on the Cajun / Louisiana offshoot branch of the Canadian Metis people is therefore well warranted.
Telemachus.forward (talk) 01:36, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Many Cajuns have Canadian Metis Roots

message: We are currently (October 31, 2012) working on new  additions to this article - If your wish to help see below.Moxy (talk) 20:39, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revision  

message: The Metis Culture developed primarily in Detroit; Wisconsin & Minnesota especially south of Lake Superior, and later in Red River, Manitoba. The first significant Metis settlement was Acadia but most preferred to call them selves Arcadians.http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/metis.htm
By the 1700s, the French presence in the Great Lakes region was well established, and even after Great Britain took control of Canada and the upper country in 1763 at the conclusion of the French and Indian War, young French-Canadian men continued to dominate the fur trade and live among the Indian tribes of the Great Lakes. It was their presence that established the foundation for the Métis culture that emerged there. http://www.uwgb.edu/wisfrench/library/articles/metis.htm~~~~68.44.188.39Kevin Lajiness 11:04, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Metis Culture developed primarily in Detroit; Wisconsin & Minnesota especially south of Lake Superior 

message: Hello,
*(my apologies if I'm writing this incorrectly, this will only be my second foray into wikipedia)
Would it be possible to add this to the External Links - Western Canada section:
Rupertsland Centre for Métis Research
http://www.rupertsland.org/research/rcmr/ 
Would it be possible to add this to the External Links - Other section:
metisinthecourts.ualberta.ca
Site includes interviews with legal and history experts on Métis issues.
Many thanks, 
Rorossier (talk) 04:06, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Done – 29611670.x (talk) 04:27, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  External link suggestion 

message: I know that this is the correct spelling, but I tried to put the URL into a document (North American keyboard) and when I check the link afterwards it tells me "bad title". The accent is not represented, and so my machine cannot find the link.
Is there anything one can do?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Metawitch (talk • contribs) 01:01, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  accent on the e leads to "bad title" page 

message: I know that this is the correct spelling, but I tried to put the URL into a document (North American keyboard) and when I check the link afterwards it tells me "bad title". The accent is not represented, and so my machine cannot find the link.
Is there anything one can do?Metawitch (talk) 01:04, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  accent on the e leads to "bad title" page 

message: This will need to be added re legal status, there will be more to follow as the new definition takes root.Skookum1 (talk) 16:33, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  new legal status in Canada 

message: the article gives a very brief introduction and then immediately jumps into the modern controversy over legal status and modern identity. this is very confusing for a person who doesn't even know what a Métis is, much less has a stake in the legal interpretation.
propose moving the "distribution" and "history" sections to just after the introduction, and move "self identity and legal status" to the bottom of the page.
i have no political stake in this; it's just how i think *_people pages should be organized. for example the British_people article does it this way. i realize that putting this section at the bottom might convey an impression that it's not important, but the entire article is already about the Métis people and there is a separate métis article which prominently links here.  Fennfoot (talk) 18:59, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  reorder sections 

message: that's so completely off base it needs no further comment; other wording for that must be found.Skookum1 (talk) 02:12, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  use of "race" in hatnote 

message: Metis just now are constitutionally considered "Indians" per a Supreme Court decision yesterdayhttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/metis-ruling/article29628869/. 
The first paragraph sort of implies this has been the case for a while. Just a request to correct it when the new information is edited in by someone for the page. Thanks.
142.163.93.160 (talk) 08:19, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  New ruling from Canada - is first paragraph inaccurate? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: It seems **highly** unlikely to me that the Metis account for half of the population of Western Canada. The link for the reference for this statement is broken, but Googling the terms of the ref and I found the following, which is probably what it was referencing: <https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/l/a/j/Kevin-C-Lajiness-NJ/FILE/0010page.html>. This is not an authoritative source, and it makes wildly exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims about the extent of the Metis.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arrow of Arjuna (talk • contribs) 02:10, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is highly unlikely: "Geneticists estimate that 50 percent of today's population in Western Canada has some Aboriginal ancestry". 

message: Does anyone want to support the IP's attempts to rewrite this section? IP has made 9 attempts so far (I think). This  is typical, although the specific changes have varied. 'Lower case "m" refers to anyone with a 50/50 blood quantum and not necessarily someone with aboriginal ancestry. The noun is used around the world to describe people whom can be referred to as half breed.'  seems particularly problematic. Meters (talk) 10:38, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "metis" vs "Metis" edit war