Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philately/Archive 1

message: This is mainly a writeup of the rules I've been applying when doing philatelic articles, should help make sense of things if someone else takes an interest in the subject. Stan 19:33, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some Project Aims 

message: Is there a standard file naming format for images of stamps uploaded to WP?  I have a few scans that I'd like to use to illustrate some of the articles I've been writing as a part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains, but don't want to just give the images any old name.
If there isn't one already, perhaps something like Stamp_XXXXX_999999.jpg where XXXXX is the issuing country name (which would expand to as long as is needed for the country name) and 999999 is the Scott catalog number (including leading zeros).  For example, Stamp_United_States_B00001.jpg would be the filename for the first US semipostal for breast cancer research, while Stamp_Prince_Edward_Island_000015.jpg would be the filename for Scott number 15 of stamps issued by PEI.  I mention Scott numbers only because that's the set of catalogs that I've got handy and it provides a handy example.  We could include the catalog name in the filename, but that seems a bit much.
Thoughts? slambo 22:42, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
:The format I've been using is "Stamp country year denomination disambig.jpg". Year and denomination alone is sufficient to uniquely identify a large number of the world's stamps, and the disambig can be something like "red" or "crown watermark" or "Robert Goddard". Scott is not used so much outside the US nor do they list every stamp ever issued, plus their number system is copyrighted and they go after anyone who seems like a threat, such as, say, a large repository of free philatelic information... See Category:Stamps on commons for a large collection of examples. Stan 12:49, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stamp image uploads 

message: I've had to rescue us from the clutches of the "inactive project" list and to try and heighten our profile I've created the active project banner at the top of this page and the project page.
Do please make use of the project member banner on your user page.  --Jack 22:39, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And the next-to-be (yes, ok, slow) increase of :Category:Stamp designers. Sebjarod 17:55, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is an ACTIVE Wikiproject 

message: Should we put a notice on the talk pages of every article related to Philately? I noticed that WikiProject Numismatics did that. I'm thinking this might bring some attention to this WikiProject.
Johann Wolfgang [
T
...C
] 
04:41, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: Hi,
I notice that this WikiProject is classified on the main list of WikiProjects as being "Humanities" (it sits between "Media" and "Philosophy").  Is this intentional?  I collect stamps myself, although I confess I haven't edited philately articles here at all, but I don't recall philately considering itself alonside philosophy!  Can I suggest that "Hobbies and Recreation" might be a better place for people to find the project?
Incidentally, if you need an independent "outsider" to give an opinion on stamp articles, or you need a bit of extra input for a featured article candidate, please leave a message on my talk page – I'd be happy to help out a little.  I don't know much postal history, I am a collector rather than a scholar, but I know GB and NSW stamps fairly well and a bit about stamps in general. 
Also incidentally, we at WP:Chem put our name on talk pages of chemical substance articles, it seems to be common practice. Cheers, Walkerma 06:56, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classification of WikiProject 

message: I notice that on many pages about GB Commonwealth stamps using £sd currency, such as Postage stamps and postal history of New South Wales, Australia, Falkland Islands, etc, the d values are given in p.  This occurs even when the description relates to a stamp image that clearly shows the denomination as 2d or similar.  The pages on GB stamps and Canadian stamps use d, however.  Is there a reason for the use of p for d?  In British currency usually p designates "new pence" (after February 1971 in UK).  Thanks, Walkerma 22:20, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In Ireland for instance, during the £sd period Irish stamps had the currency written as 'p' for pingin, the Irish for penny, and when decimalisation came in the 'p' was dropped, so you only see a numeral for the decimal penny as in this decimal set of definitive stamps that do not show a decimal penny, just the numeral. Prior to 1968 the penny was shown as a sterling 'd' for penny. However, it should be clear what currency is being referred to on all stamp pages. ww2censor 02:05, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I use "p" because Scott catalog does. It's a complete nuisance to try to keep track of the day/month/year of each nation's decimalization (UK is not the only place that changed). Any pedant wants to re-upload images or edit articles, be my guest. :-) Stan 03:58, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stamp pages mentioning Lsd currency 

message: A useful task for this project is to research copyright status for stamp designs. About all we can say for sure is that 19th-c. images are most likely PD, and 21st-c. images are likely not. I've researched this some, but don't have a lot to show for it. It matters because PD images can go to commons, while ones still under copyright have to stay here. Stan 03:58, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A first step in this idea on commons : :Commons:Stamps/Public domain. Sebjarod 20:15, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Postage stamp copyright 

message: OK folks, time to spring into action - List of fish on stamps is proposed for deletion. Go weigh in if you think this material is at least as worth keeping as individual articles for each Pokemon. Stan 03:58, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fish on stamps to be deleted 

message: Looking through the Christmas stamp I noticed a redlinked Holiday stamp.
I believe that Christmas is just one festivity in this large world and Wikipedia still had not looked at the other stamps of other cultures. So I started this stub. The information is just for US Postage stamps. I would like to invite all of you to expand this article and although there is still very much more to write about US Holiday stamps, I believe there is much more to say of other countries' stamps. I would interested to see about Muslim countries and Chinese issues, as also if other Western countries with a high inmigration population has issued special multicultural festival stamps. --Francisco Valverde 10:58, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Holiday stamps 

message: I noticed there are 3 articles that refer to Express Mail. Two are duplicates Express mail, Express Mail(USPS) and the third Express Mail Service that all refer to the express mail services as offered by postal administrations (UPU members) throughout the world. It seems to me that one of those duplicates should be deleted and used as a redirect while only one main article should cover the subject in depth with references to the express services offered by other, non-postal administration, carriers like Fedex, etc. 
Proposal:
*Express Mail(USPS) should redirect to Express mail
*Express Mail Service shold be merged with Express mail
*Express mail should be expanded to become the main article.
Opinions sought. ww2censor 14:28, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a good idea. Lots of left hands not knowing what right hands are doing, a single article suffices since I doubt the subject can get longer than 3-4 screenfuls even with excruciating detail. Stan 14:49, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree. Seeing as this conversation has been dead for two months, is anyone gonna do it? Alphachimp talk 19:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok, I'll try to do it this weekend. Cheers ww2censor 13:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, Express mail is now the main article and it is done though I still need to make some more improvements but the basics are there now. ww2censor 02:36, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Express Mail 

message: I'm guessing that someone on this project can do a better job than I can on the description of :Commons:Image:Rom stamp dies 1.jpg. - Jmabel | Talk 04:00, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems good enough to me, any further detail would have to come from one of the world's dozen-odd specialists in Romanian philately, none are WP editors that I know of :-) . The pic will be very handy in an as-yet-nonexistent article on stamp printing, thanks! Stan 19:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Romanian stamp dies 

message: I'm currently going through the compendium to include Main Article links in each micro entry (where appropriate) and it's clear that the majority are going to be missing.  If you have any material that could be used to create a stub at least, could you please include it.  The naming convention for new articles is on the WikiProject main page: it depends on if the article is philatelic only or a section in the country's general article.
As for what we're missing, this is just A B C & S with loads more to come!
;A : Aden Protectorate States; Aegean Islands (Dodecanese); Åland Islands; Albania; Alderney; Algeria; Alsace-Lorraine; Andorra; Angola; Anguilla; Antigua & Barbuda; Argentina; Argentine Territories; Armenia; Aruba; Austro-Hungarian Military Post; Azerbaijan.
;B : BA/BMA Issues; Baden; Bahawalpur; Bahrain; Bangladesh; Barbados; Basutoland; Bavaria; Belarus; Belgian Congo; Belgian Occupation Issues; Belgium; Belize; Benin; Bermuda; Bhutan; Bohemia & Moravia; Bolivia; Bosnia & Herzegovina; Bosnian Serb Republic; Botswana; Brazil; Bremen; British Honduras; British Indian Ocean Territory; British Occupation Issues; British Postal Agencies in Eastern Arabia; British Post Offices Abroad; British Post Offices in the Turkish Empire; British South Africa Company; British Virgin Islands; Brunei; Bulgaria; Bulgarian Territories; Burkina Faso; Burma; Burundi.
;C : Cambodia; Cameroun; Canadian States; Canal Zone; Canary Islands; Cape of Good Hope; Cape Verde Islands; Cayman Islands; Central African Republic; Ceylon; Channel Islands; Chile; China (Indo-Chinese Post Offices); Chinese Nationalist Republic (Taiwan); Chinese People's Republic; Chinese Provinces; Christmas Island; Cocos (Keeling) Islands; Colombia; Colombian Territories; Comoro Islands; Congo Free State; Congo Republic; Cook Islands; Costa Rica; CPR Regional Issues; Crete; Crete (Austro-Hungarian Post Offices); Crete (French Post Offices); Croatia; Cuba; Cuba & Puerto Rico; Curacao; Cyprus; Cyrenaica; Czechoslovakia; Czech Republic.
;S : Sabah; St Christopher Nevis & Anguilla; St Helena; St Kitts; St Kitts Nevis & Anguilla; St Lucia; St Pierre et Miquelon; St Vincent; Samoa; Samos; San Marino; Sao Tome e Principe; Sarawak; Saudi Arabia; Selangor; Senegal; Serbia; Serbian Occupation Issues; Serbia & Montenegro; Seychelles; Shanghai; Sierra Leone; Singapore; Slovakia; Slovenia; Solomon Islands; Somalia; Somaliland Protectorate; South Africa; South African Territories; South Georgia & South Sandwich Islands; South Korea; South Vietnam; South West Africa; Spain; Spanish Guinea; Spanish Morocco; Spanish Philippines; Spanish Post Offices Abroad; Spanish West Africa; Sri Lanka; Sudan; Sungei Ujong; Suriname; Swaziland; Swiss Cantonal Issues; Syria; Szeged.
To see the compendium project's progress, go to :Category:Compendium of postage stamp issuers
To see the articles we already have, go to :Category:Philately by country
All the best to everyone who is contributing to this project.  --Jack 20:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment: If we add all the stamp issuing countries that have yet to be listed, I am sure it will be several hundred, so I am gald to see they have not been red linked. That is not to say that we should not make a list but I would recommend concentrating on existing links even if they need to be started. Without adding any more to the list of missing articles there are plenty (more than 250) of red linked philatelic pages already, especially at List of philatelic topics, List of philatelists, List of philatelic libraries and List of philatelic museums to name a few. I have been looking at filling an occasional one as information comes to hand, though my philatelic library is in storage right now. My own interest would be in the List of philatelic topics. ww2censor 14:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Comment  I've only just joined this project and I spotted this on my inaugural tour!  Wow!  You don't do things by halves, do you?  I see the word "British" appears frequently in your list and I collect British stamps including the old colonies, so I might be able to help in due course.  Leave it with me.  --AlbertMW 15:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Comment I'm aware of redlinks in the list articles and I agree these need to be addressed but I have started the missing countries so I'll finish that first and then move on to the redlinks, though I suspect a lot of these like the libraries and many of the philatelists are not going to be addressed for some considerable time.  I would say the countries have priority but I would like to get most of the "topics list" underway.  --BlackJack | talk page 21:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philately Articles Needed 

message: There is a proposal to rename two postal and philatelic stub categories.  Please join discussion at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Stub_types_for_deletion#.7B.7Btl.7CPostal-stub.7D.7D_.2F_.5B.5B:Category:Postal_stubs.5D.5D_and_.7B.7Bcl.7CPhilately_stubs.7D.7D
It's under 31 May, by the way.
I've voted for merge and rename but I'll go with consensus as long as nothing gets deleted.  --Jack 20:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stubs renaming discussion - please see 

message: We have a standard philately stub template  in wide use for philatelic subjects and there is a suitable alternative  for articles that are more relevant to postal systems than philately.  One of these should be used whenever a stub is created.
I have just nominated two additional stub templates for deletion as they are superfluous, they are not in use and they have in any case an inappropriate icon.  --Jack 05:49, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philately and postal stub templates 

message: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Universal_Postal_Union Universal Postal Union for the discussion.  --Jack 14:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category Deletion Proposed: UPU 

message: The convention we have adopted for naming our :category:Philately by country surveys is "Postaqe stamps and postal history of X" where X is any stamp-issuing entity, not just a modern country.  This has just been challenged by someone who redirected Postage stamps and postal history of Santander to a shorter title, leaving out "Postage stamps and".  The rationale for his action was that the title was "far too long".
In fact, it is not far too long because the maximum length of a title is 255 bytes, which is very long indeed.  See page name length for the rules.  If you come across a similar case, you can quote this plus the fact that we have been using our format for about three or more years now and it has never been challenged before so it must be a standard convention.
The editor in this case accepted he was wrong, should have checked the category first and apologised; I reverted the article and wished him well and there seems no harm done.  --BlackJack | talk page 12:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would love to have a shorter title, but unless one (such as Ireland) is split into separate stamp and postal history articles, not much choice. Alternative might be "Philately of X" for instance, but the term doesn't as clearly include postal history and may even suggest that it's about X's dealers and collectors. Stan 12:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

text: That's right.  Also the guy's suggested "Postal history of X" suggests an emphasis on postmasters and delivery services, but not on stamps, so I think our standard is fine.  We may have a problem where the entity has a very long name as we could have, for example, "Postage stamps and postal history of the Mahra Sultanate of Qishn and Socotra"! Has anyone any suggestions re how to title an article like that?  The thing about such huge titles is that they tend to apply to very small entities so I suppose we would include a postage section in an article about the entity, as we already do in some cases.  --BlackJack | talk page 12:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Names 

message: I found List of people on stamps of Turkmenistan, and would like to bring it to your attention, as I've no idea whether it's best to delete the article, merge it, or something else Bluap 14:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Stamps of Turkmenistan has been cited by the UPU as illegal though I have not been able to see whether these particular ones are legal or not. If they are illegal then I don't think they should be listed at all. Maybe someone can check but the online lists I found are not very up-to-date. ww2censor 14:44, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

text: They do write letters in Turkmenistan, and a little Googling turns up some genuine-seeming on-cover usage. A rather poor list though, that doesn't mention the president, Saparmurad Niyazov, depicted in the very first set. A speedy delete seems appropriate, not losing much. Stan 17:27, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with a delete of the article which contains nothing of interest.  Turkmenistan started its issues in 1992 after it split from the USSR but it doesn't seem to have distinguished itself since then.  --BlackJack | talk page 13:08, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, folks.  I've proposed it for deletion.  Unless anyone objects, it will be deleted in 5 days or so. Bluap 18:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Found Article 

message: I've been doing a lot of work on this list in combination with my compendium-based task of identifying the country surveys we need in the form of macro articles.  As a result, the list has been extensively updated and revised: indeed, because of its size it now has three pages.
Please see a discussion I have started at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_entities_that_have_issued_postage_stamps_%28A_-_E%29#Format_Revised .  All the best.  --BlackJack | talk page 11:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of postal issuing entities 

message: I've done a survey of the philately categories and found:
There are 17 subcategories in "Philately"
;A
:Airmail - 0 subcats; 9 pages (all in order)
:Philatelic associations and societies - 0 subcats; 10 pages (all in order)
;C
:Compendium of postage stamp issuers - 0 subcats; 43 pages (all in order)
:Philately by country - 1 subcat (Compendium only); 108 pages - mostly okay but for some renaming and a few strays
;D
:Stamp designers - 0 subcats; 41 pages (all seemingly in order)
;H
:Postal history - 1 subcat (Compendium only); 31 pages - all okay; many more to come so surely more subcats
;L
:Lists of people on stamps - 0 subcats; 110 pages - all okay
:Philatelic literature - 1 subcats (okay); 11 pages (all seemingly okay)
;M
:Postal markings - 0 subcats; 30 pages - all okay; probably several more to come
;P
:Philatelists - 6 subcats (all in order); 1 page (list only)
:Postal stationery - 1 subcat (okay); 4 pages (all okay)
:Postal system - 9 subcats (all in order); 101 pages - needs full review and surely more subcats
;S
:Stamp collecting - 0 subcats; 19 pages (all okay; probably many more to come so sub-cats will be needed)
:Postage stamps - 5 subcats (all in order); 127 pages - needs full review and surely more subcats
;T
:Philatelic terminology - 0 subcats; 44 pages (all okay; as many as needed)
;U
:Universal Postal Union - 0 subcats; 7 pages (all okay; probably several more to come)
;µ
:Post and philately stubs - 98 stubs (many more to come)
The verdict is that we have a very healthy and well-structured project.  I think the only things to be done in due course are to create more sub-cats for the two very large folders re stamps and systems.  --BlackJack | talk page 06:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you bring it up, I think you've made somewhat of a mess of categorization actually. In particular, "postage stamps" was for specific stamps and stamp issues (although I guess I didn't write that down, thinking it was obvious), not general concepts such as stamp color. General concepts should stay at the main category, so that the reader doesn't have to hunt up and down dozens of micro-categories trying to guess where something is to be found. One of the hints that you're trying to divide too finely is that articles end up in multiple sibling categories, because they don't fit neatly in either one. So we don't go uselessly round and round on categorization, why don't you try adding a precise definition of each category to its page, and then we can discuss whether members fit that definition. Stan 12:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Stan's comments sound good to me as I too see that finding some articles involves digging too far down and sometimes flailing around because the article is buried too deep.  I also find some inconsistencies in the categorisations. One instance: why is the :Category:Stamp designers not divided by country yet the :Category:Philatelists is divided by country? The designers have 41 pages listed without subcategories (I think that is good and clear) yet the philatelists, that are only 23 pages, are divided into 6 country subcategories. To my way of thinking the country divisions might only be needed when the number of pages in a category gets too large to handle and IMHO 23 pages do not need 6 subcategories. Besides which, if I am trying to find a philatelist, I may not know where they came from, but I will likely know their name, so removal of country subcategories in :Category:Philatelists would get my vote for simplicity. Maybe there are other examples where we are having to dig too far to find what we want. I hope you see my thinking here. ww2censor 15:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: More I just discovered that the sub:Category: American philatelists was discussed recently  for deletion but it was kept. However it seems that discussion took place with little contribution from Philately project members other than Jack who withdrew the nomination and sorted by six new very small sub-categories. What is the use of six new very small sub-categories? I don't get it. Unfortunately there is a Wikipedia problem that some decisions are made by people who have little knowledge of a subject and then we (those interested) are stuck with that decision. However, we unfortunately cannot watch everything that affects our own interests either. ww2censor 16:00, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Why not discuss all your categorization ideas first, rather than unilaterally moving everything around and generally acting as if the rest of us don't know what we're doing? As the author of most of WP's philatelic verbiage, I like to imagine I have some clue about how the material should be presented! 184 articles in a root category seems perfectly reasonable to me, but I would have been happy to entertain the idea that some subset forms a logical group to be broken out. Instead, you've taken the approach that the base category should be as empty as possible, but I have yet to see why should be a goal in the first place. Stan 18:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I  must agree with Stan on this one. Let's discuss the proposed division into categories before actually doing it. With more than 25 years of active philatelic collecting and research I can certainly contribute in a constructive yet useful way with advise on what might be categorised together logically. Bring on the ideas first please. ww2censor 19:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: As a step forward I have created a user page where I have listed all of the links, both red and blue from the List of philatelic topics page in a table format for easy viewing and editing. If  you agree that this is a good idea, I suggest filling in the categories you suggest per topic in your column and see what we come up with by way of consensus. New categories could also be suggested. I would like to add a list of all the philately categories at the top of the page and as Jack has been working most recently with them perhaps you wold add them. Is this a good way of progressing. If 2 or 3 users fill in their suggestions then we might find a constructive, but logical philatelic way forward. Cheers ww2censor 15:11, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories