Talk:Indo-Pakistani war of 1965/Archive 1

message: I am going to start re-editing this page. This whole page has just been lifted from GlobalSecurity.org and Fas.org and is a violation of copyright. Apart from that, people posting  stuff are indulging childish POV jibes. For the time being, I have left the edit as it is, but I will start working on cleaning up the article from tomorrow. 
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and not a medium for people to brag about each other's war heroics.
AreJay 02:35, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I have read from various sources that both India and Pakistan had "tactically" agreed to not allow the theater of conflict to expand to East Pakistan. 
AreJay 23:23, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Older discussion 

message: Right, guys, I've looked at this article. There seem to be several points of dispute. One side is presenting a pro-Indian POV, the other a pro-Pakistani POV. The article is not particularly neutral either way. Now, the question that a neutral observer (me, in this case) asks is, Are the figures etc disputed by India and Pakistan or only by AreJay's camp and Napoleon12's camp? Can AreJay and Napoleon12 present sources for the amounts of territory they say were seized and for the progress of the war? AreJay, you give one source. Global Security is not actually a scholarly work on the war, so far as I know.
It would be perfectly acceptable to present Indian and Pakistani sources. There's nothing preventing biased sources from being used, so long as they are clearly marked as sources that are making claims and not presenting facts.
What I suggest is that Napoleon12, who seems to be the disputant of the consensus view, presents a list here on talk of the changes he wishes to make, with each one backed up by a source. He has been cautioned already against using emotional language. Wikipedia is neutral. It doesn't make judgements of one side or the other's military prowess or martial fervour. AreJay, I ask you too to support all facts and figures in this article with sources. The outcome of your not doing so is likely to be that the article will be rewritten with all disputed areas removed. It's an important thing on Wikipedia to give sources for factual claims, because this allows others to verify the facts you are presenting. They need not be online. Grace Note 23:48, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Grace, again, I am not presenting a "pro-Indian" POV. I don't know why you would make such an assumption. Please point out specific material from the article that appear to you to be pro-Indian. Since you are a nutral to this debate, any input from you will help improve the quality of the article, which is my main intention. Contrary to what you believe, I am not emotionally attached to either India, Pakistan or the 1965 war and don't have a POV stance on this issue. 
As far as facts and figures, please refer to the last three external links in the article. The last article is entitled "Official history of the 1965 war", published by a Pakistani newspaper. The second to last link is an "Official War History" as detailed by the History Division of the Ministry of Defence, India. Ever single figure that I have added to this article has been referenced, either in the article itself, or on this page, during my debates with other wikipedia members.
Please understand that this is not a pro-Indian POV vs. pro Pakistan POV issue. The user in question has been deleting and adding POV information to every single Indo-Pakistani war page on wikipedia, since yesterday and is not willing to listen to reason or engage in discourse with other wikipedians. That is the real issue. I hope this makes things a little clearer.
AreJay 00:27, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Areas of dispute

message: It's not clear whether the references to Punjab are for Punjab, India or Punjab (Pakistan), so it would be nice if someone knowledgeable would disambiguate the links. TimBentley 03:21, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. But left out one intentionally since it took place in the border of indian and pakistani punjab. Idleguy 05:13, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Punjab: disambigious 

message: Leave copyright issues apart,this has become a page for BIGOTSUNLIMITED.COM.well everybody asserting that each's own country did better and won the war.and there are lot of crybabies,especially napolean and ragib.none of them discuss matters in a scholarly way especially the paki users. any word about 1971 or 1965 war,they will post messages of saying RSS,BJP, HINDU,RAW and what not.
try to be more reasonable and counter every allegation point by point.your blatant refusal to argue and just curse and run away shows your weak minded and not professional to engage in an arguement.--Jayanthv86 19:04, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:CIVIL, and please refrain from making personal attacks. Thanks. --Ragib 19:40, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ragib,i havent made personal attack on you.i have just written what i have observed.in fact,i have only responded to personal attacks by you.i didnt mean any offense.and my comment says dont indulge in personal attacks like naming RAW,BJP and stuff.--Jayanthv86 10:56, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments from [[User:Jayanthv86|Jayanthv86]]