Talk:Balsamic vinegar

message: I have replaced this page with a copyright violation notice.  It is difficult for me to judge the origin of this page, but it was originally posted in July 2004 by User:Alien life form, who was only active for a few days in that month.  The "history" section is verbatim the same as content on at least four other websites:
*http://www.epicureanfoods.com/us/libvinegar.php
*http://www.healthy-snacks.com/Services/Library/Vinegars.html
*http://www.godoc.it/history.htm
*http://www.ditalia.com/shop/VINEGAR/vinegarhistory.html
I verified that the first one has been up since 2002 (via archive.org), so these predate the Wikipedia entry.  It looks suspiciously like this is a commercial description, perhaps from some balsamic vinegar trade association, which is used by various vendors of balsamic vinegar.  In any event it looks like it was swiped illegally, so the whole article as contributed by this user should probably be rewritten from scratch.  NTK 07:52, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyvio

message: Greetings.
I luv being accused of illegal behavior, so I will point you to the following everyhting2 writeup 
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1097267
(which, as you will note, was authored by me in July 2001). In said article, the history section was adapted from www.balsamicvinegar.com, whose content I and my colleagues created on behalf of a customer a year before (roughly). No copyright was contemplated - quite obviously - on such a trivial account of the recorded history of the stuff. The domain then changed hands, its content was rewritten, etc. so I actually thought that the stuff I wrote was mine to use but, hey, we do mistakes. If traceable at all, that must be the original source of the material that I shamelessly "swiped".
That writeup and some other material I had from then  - a part from my personal experience - have been the basis for the article of the wikipedia.  To which I return to find out it was really a swipe. Oh, well - I have written compositions in high school for which I care more deeply than that article, and it looks that wikipedia will be balsamic-vinegar-less after all (I'm not going to invest any time in rewriting the thing, next please). 
I do find utterly ridiculous, though, the way in which copyright perception and policing (way way before legislation) are getting in the way of sharing rather flat and flavorless factual accounts. 
But that ridiculous is only a pale reflection of that which emanates from accounts of such trivia that are peppered with words like "illegal, suspicious, swipe, was active just a few days".
One would think we're killing the Romanoffs, here, rather than engaging in highly onanistic and irrelevant intellectual self play. Of which I had enough.
Alien Life Form 03:19, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello.  Since you seem to be coming in to Wikipedia from everything2—which has mostly had a lax policy on this sort of thing, perhaps you're not familiar with how things are done here.  If you are posting content that appears elsewhere or that was not created especially for wikipedia, you should cite it in the article or at least post a note about it in the talk page, stating that you are the copyright-holder or showing evidence that it is public-domain or otherwise GFDL-compatible.  (Note that your sarcastic copyright notice is not applicable, since by submitting new content to Wikipedia you are agreeing to GFDL-license your content.)  I followed standard Wikipedia procedure in researching the copyright status of your article.  In any case it seems like I was right after all, in that intentionally or not this article belongs to the client whom you created this article.  There's no need to be so touchy, all you needed to do was post an explanation here.  I would like to welcome your future contributions to Wikipedia but suggest that you be more carefully about sourcing and citing your contributions and otherwise following accepted practices, since unlike everything2, articles in Wikipedia are not individual pieces, but collaboratively edited parts of a larger work.  NTK 07:25, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  O, brave new copyright world 

message: One of the external links was:
*  A good place to find artisan balsamic vinegars of all prices.
This links directly to an online shopping site. It's not very informative, except to demonstrate that balsamic vinegar is indeed quite expensive. Looks like it's to draw traffic to this particular product selection. I can't say I have a good replacement link, but I removed this one pending any disagreement, if any. Clarkcol 03:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The text that accompanied the link was terrible, but the link itself is helpful in showing a variety of products and their high prices.  I support retaining it for that purpose.  Badagnani 03:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That purpose does not justify including a link to a selling site.  Leave it out. Dicklyon 05:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Whatever you believe, please don't present it as a command.  What you meant to say, I think, was "I think we should leave it out."  Your opinion is no more or less valuable than any others of ours.  Badagnani 05:15, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You may interpret my imperative voice as my opinion, yes, which is all it is.  My opinion is "leave it out".  But save your lecture. (that's my opinion, too; you don't have to obey) Dicklyon 05:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Link - Advertisement? 

message: I believe the sources cited in this article are incorrect.  They currently suggest that the red, silver and gold label certification processes are related to age.  The process used to create the vinegars doesn't lend itself to giving a specific age, as the barrells of vinegars are never fully emptied, but blended with each other as the aging process takes place.  The colors indicate quality, with red being acceptable, silver being better and gold being the best possible quality.  I cannot find a source for this online, however it is listed in a book that comes with the graded vinegars from the consortium in Reggio Emilia. Steeltoe 18:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factually incorrect? 

message: I've heard claims that Chuck Williams, founder of Williams-Sonoma, had brought Balsamic Vinegar to the United States.  Does anyone have any facts or contradictions to this claim?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dennislv (talk • contribs) 05:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chuck Williams 

message: Why was much text just blanked from the article, without prior discussion in this edit, such as "It is also used as a topping on vanilla ice cream or pancakes"? Badagnani (talk) 02:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops - it appears that we are walking over each other with our edits.  I was just doing some grammar and layout cleanup; I don't *think* I deleted any text, at least not on purpose! Mylorin (talk) 02:58, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blanking 

message: "Tradizionale vinegar has excellent digestive properties and it may even be drunk from a tiny glass to conclude a meal." Hmmm... I don't really know what "facts" this might be based on, but unless a good citation appears I think I'll delete the sentence.Jimjamjak (talk) 12:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious qualities 

message: Here is an article on the subject that might be of use. Since I am the author I will not add it as a link, but it is probably the most complete discussion of balsamic on the net.
http://amazingribs.com/recipes/my_ingredients/zen_of_balsamic_vinegar.html
Quedude (talk) 21:25, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems like spam and is not a reliable source to me. tedder (talk) 21:29, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recommended Reference an/or Link 

message: I've changed the main image for the article - the one shown at the top-right of the page - from the original picture (three desserts using traditional balsamic vinegar) to a bottle of 'Balsamic Vinegar of Modena'. My main reason for doing this was that the picture of the desserts (which I've now moved to the 'Uses' section) didn't actually depict balsamic vinegar itself (or at least not very obviously), whereas the picture of the bottle gives the reader an idea of the colour and appearance of it. I'm aware, however, that the new picture shows 'Balsamic Vinegar of Modena' (mentioned in the caption), which the article describes as a 'cheap imitation of the original product'. Despite this I think that, until we can get a clear picture of some traditional balsamic vinegar, this is the best image to use to illustrate the article. I'm no expert on balsamic vinegar though, so if you disagree, do change it back. TheLewisRepublic (talk) 16:26, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main article image 

message: Etymology: Latin balsamum, from Greek balsamon,...
References [3] doesn't work.  The above is from the same dictionary though.
In (modern) Greek the word balsmaico means "restorative" or "curative" (healing). 
It's an ancient word and one that was used, including the making of such elixers as what the Italians call "vinegar", long before it was recorded by crusaders of the east who found this to actually work as a "curative". Lest we forget who inhabitted the east long before any barbars or moors or other invaders took over, it was, yes, the Greeks.
I won't write any of this on the main page myself.  I'll probably be accused of not using the proper reference or of original research or other stuff famous for on wikipedia.  So I'll leave it here for those that know what to look for and where to read.
Scott Anafas (talk) 11:52, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  From Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary... 

message: "Balsamic" redirects here.  There has been a commercial airing recently that mentions "balsamic strawberry ice cream," but I'm not sure if it's real (since it wasn't the product advertised) or if they are making fun of yuppie food.--Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 02:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Balsamic strawberry ice cream

message: WP:MEDRS defines the type of sources required for health-related information. None of these even come close. Worse, these look like WP:FRINGE claims. --Ronz (talk) 01:19, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Health claims require medical sources

message: Could we have more of a comparison between normal vinegar and balsamic, like what balsamic is good for over normal and vice versa.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.3.164 (talk) 12:52, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an old section. But, I was wondering the same. I think there should be a quick explanation of the differences, as that's what many my come here for. I could add it - but, I just like cooking and would rather someone with some more detailed knowledge do so. Objective3000 (talk) 00:19, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compare please 

message: I reverted this section to a version from April. The section was rewritten by an WP:SPA in a advertising style and marked POV today. The section could be expanded somewhat. But, there is a fork with more explanation. Objective3000 (talk) 19:16, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. It would be helpful to identify the version you reverted it to, and the SPA. --Ronz (talk) 15:33, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: April 22. The apparent SPA was . Objective3000 (talk) 15:37, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Comparing the two versions , it's unclear what you did. --Ronz (talk) 15:43, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn’t revert the entire article to April – only the section on balsamic vinegar Modena. Balsamic vinegars traditionally require a long (12 or more years), expensive process still in use today. The newer Balsamic Vinegar of Modena uses a much simpler, quicker (as few as 30 days), less expensive  process with more leeway. It appeared that the SPA added some puffery to the less expensive version adding more text than that for the traditional vinegars. An editor marked the section POV. Looked to me that the POV tag was on target, so I changed that section to the pre-SPA version. Each of the main articles explains this more clearly. This could be explained more clearly. But, someone with more experience in the field than I should do this. Objective3000 (talk) 16:07, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balsamic Vinegar of Modena 

message: I have seen a few sources referring to the presence of lead in Balsamic Vinegar in small quantities (some claiming that it might be from the soil, others from the barrel or processing).  I've linked the original paper and a subsequent replication of it as well as the two news articles I judged most reputable in reporting this.
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20170729081938/http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/lead-in-vinegar
 * https://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Lead-in-red-wine-vinegars-could-hurt-kids-3210998.php
 * https://www.sfpublicpress.org/lead-in-balsamic-vinegar-raises-more-questions-than-answers/
 * https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21550100/
All of this is at least 10 years old, so I'm still interested in learning if there is a more definitive result, I may reach out to the University_of_California,_Santa_Cruz toxicology lab that was performing tests as mentioned in the SF_Public_Press article and see if the university has completed and published the referenced research.
Have there been any references to these lead reports in the past? It seems like it might be useful to summarize the state of scientific understanding with respect to lead content in balsamic vinegars along with the appropriate citations. Thoughts?
VeraqueVeritas (talk) 02:30, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead in Balsamic Vinegar 

message: An interesting BBC article : Why your balsamic vinegar is likely fake - https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20231024-why-your-balsamic-vinegar-is-likely-fake Wisdood (talk) 10:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  fake counterfeit products