Talk:British and Irish Communist Organisation

message: As someone who was a British member of B&ICO, I felt the need to correct the more obvious errors in the piece.  I've a feeling there was a Jim Lane who was an ICO member, though it may not be the same fellow.  He is definitely not the same person as Jack Lane, any more than Colin Powell is Enoch Powell. 
Some of the other comments are no better informed, though I accept them as honest errors from someone who was trying to fill in the gaps.  
What I've left unchanges isn't necessarily accurate, just I'm not going to undertake to write the definitive history.  More important is the massive neglect of Workers' Control, the big missed opportunity of the 1970s.
I have however added and linked to the Dublin Housing Action Committee, which every Irish leftists alive at the time likes to have on their CV.  As is documented in the links for that page, the Secretary and leading spirit was Dennis Dennehy, a founder-member who later left.  His own history is very interesting, but I am not qualified to write it.
--GwydionM 17:48, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Errors 

message: Given their rather abrupt changes of view, I think a criticism section would be appropriate - where would be the best source to start with for this? Autarch 19:01, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You might consider the possibility that abrupt changes of view are related to abrupt changes in the world.  Notably the Soviet collapse of 1989-91.  Also the collapse of the first power-sharing in 1974 and the apparent success of the latest round. --GwydionM 17:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What I've seen of their writings about that period claims that their change of view was due to a collapse of the nationalist position in the Republic, rather than the collapse of the Soviet Union. (In fact, there's at least one webpage - a reprint of a 1975 publication that denies that they are a Marxist organisation.here) Some of the changes are across the Nationalist/Unionist divide, suggesting a local reason. Autarch 19:47, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism

message: :Image:Communist Comment 040770r.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 21:57, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Communist Comment 040770r.jpg

message: The recent update is mostly accurate.  But it's not true to say that BICO supported the take-over of Kuwait by Iraq.  The objection was that he was targetted despite having discussed the possibility of action with the US ambassador. --GwydionM (talk) 17:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iraq 

message: Text which was unreferenced since July 08, was replaced again along with the tags. I've removed them again as it's unreferenced.--Domer48'fenian' 10:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edit summary indicates to me that we have had dealings in the past “More thoughtless reversion by Domer” ? Could you possibly tell me what those reversions were, as it may help to understand how an editor who has only started editing on the 17th could form such an opinion? Unless of course your not a new editor, and just forgot to log in? --Domer48'fenian' 20:43, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

text: I have also. The disruption from this IP editor should stop. O Fenian (talk) 16:13, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreferenced text 

message: The page here gives his year of birth as 1935, but this page says 1926 - I'm assuming it's the same Brendan Clifford given that his wife was born in Jerusalem, her mother seems to have a Jewish family background and her father was called John Abu Khalil - as far as I know the Aubane Angela Clifford was born of a Jewish mother and Palestinian father. Does anyone have any more details on Brendan Clifford, such as year of birth? Autarch (talk) 18:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Just found this page, which mentions a book published by Angela Clifford about her family, which seems to confirm that above link about Brendan and Angela Clifford - though some might question whether this second link breaches WP:SELFPUB. Autarch (talk) 18:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

text: It would be better to find them in a published WP:RS as looking up the public records might be WP:OR (though I'm unsure on that).Autarch (talk) 19:33, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brendan Clifford 

message: An editor keeps adding to the article the statement "In April 2009, former B&ICO member Patrick Murphy (1937–2009) passed away", linked to an obituary (behind a paywall) in the Irish Times. I have removed this for several reasons. In the first place, Murphy is not mentioned in the article, and there is no Wikipedia article on him. So there is no indication even that he was a member of the group, let alone a significant member. If his membership had been notable, this would surely have been mentioned in the article, even if he did not merit an article himself. In any case, we do not note in Wikipedia articles the deaths of every member of a political group, let alone of former members. If we started to do this, some articles would soon become unmanageably long. Do you think we should note the death of every former member of the British Labour Party? If not, then why is this former member of BICO any different? Please justify the inclusion of this information before re-adding it.  And by the way, you should note that WP:Euphemism states that we should euphemisms such as "passed away": "The word died is neutral and accurate". RolandR (talk) 18:46, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Be assured, you are flatly wrong.  Life it to short to waste more of it correcting you.--GwydionM (talk) 21:06, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that puts me in my place, doesn't it? Utterly convincing. RolandR (talk) 01:24, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patrick Murphy 

message: What's said at  is indeed rubbish.  Brendan Clifford went from Cork to London and has never spent much time in Dublin, among other errors.  
It is the work of a fool, someone who congratulates themselves on being witty rather than learning anything.  Among other matters, Ernest Bevin helped save the early Soviet Union by preventing BRitish arm shipments to the WHite forces.  He built the Transport and General, Britain's biggest union.  And established a functional social welfare system in BRitain in World War Two.  Naturally he is hated by "revolutionaries" who achieve nothing beyond some bad jokes.
I record this in case anyone feels like restoring the link, which might sound learned to those ignorant of the topic.  (And don't bother writing to the author of it - he has recently been eaten by a crocodile.  The poor creature was reported as being severely ill afterwards.)  --GwydionM (talk) 19:22, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  JS piece (now deleted) 

message: I honestly suspect that this entire organization was an elaborate joke being played on the Irish and British Left.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.104.252.95 (talk) 06:05, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you find funny?  Explaining that the Ulster Protestants were a separate nation who were not going to collapse?  Supposing that Trotskyism would come to nothing?  Having a low opinion of the now-vanished world of pro-Moscow Communism?  Taking on the Catholic Church when it was still strong? Saying that the trade union militancy of the 1970s would be futile unless it created new political structures?  --GwydionM (talk) 20:11, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did they mean any of it? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on British and Irish Communist Organisation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071012161930/http://www.atholbooks.org/timecapsule/articles/monarchy.html to http://www.atholbooks.org/timecapsule/articles/monarchy.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110713235340/http://ltureview.com/user/story.php?id=38 to http://ltureview.com/user/story.php?id=38
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 05:15, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on British and Irish Communist Organisation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20041230152800/http://members.aol.com:80/BevinSoc/Tories_74.htm to http://members.aol.com/BevinSoc/Tories_74.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120209012539/http://ltureview.com/user/story.php?id=318 to http://ltureview.com/user/story.php?id=318
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120213131939/http://www.ltureview.com/user/story.php?id=420 to http://www.ltureview.com/user/story.php?id=420
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090422001616/http://archives.tcm.ie:80/businesspost/2008/11/30/story37792.asp to http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2008/11/30/story37792.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090303140428/http://www.drb.ie:80/more_details/08-09-28/he_could_tell_you_things.aspx to http://www.drb.ie/more_details/08-09-28/he_could_tell_you_things.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 23:29, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on British and Irish Communist Organisation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060223130044/http://marcmulholland.tripod.com:80/histor/index.blog?entry_id=485889 to http://marcmulholland.tripod.com/histor/index.blog?entry_id=485889
*Added  tag to http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2000w45/msg00113.htm
*Added  tag to http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2000w45/msg00112.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://geocities.com/socialistparty/Publications/FWUCh4.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://geocities.com/socialistparty/Publications/FWU2Nations.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060113104828/http://www.ulsternation.org.uk:80/1994_interview.htm to http://www.ulsternation.org.uk/1994_interview.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110713235351/http://ltureview.com/user/story.php?id=409 to http://ltureview.com/user/story.php?id=409
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080620093038/http://archives.econ.utah.edu:80/archives/marxism/2001w07/msg00018.htm to http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2001w07/msg00018.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:05, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified