Talk:Sturm und Drang

message: This article badly needs cleanup so I am slapping a tag on it.  If I have time I will get around to doing some initial work, but at a minimum I suggest that a proper breakdown be provided: 
*origins of the term/movement
*aesthetic and artistic goals
*literary significance in the second half of the 18th c in Germany
*musical significance ditto
*End of Sturm und Drang and legacy
Plus anything else one can think of.  Thoughts? Eusebeus 10:34, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: I had a German teacher who called it "Storm and Stress" and I assume she's correct.  Plus it sounds nicer to me. Ich 02:38, Jul 6, 2004 (UTC)
In Germany Sturm und Drang is not considered part of the Romanticism. There is the line of
1) Sturm und Drang (Goehte, Schiller and others), 2) Weimarer Klassik (Goethe, Schiller) and 3) Romantik. The difference is that Sturm und Drang is more critic then Romantik. And how is Alexander Lessing? Do you mean Gotthold Ephraim Lessing?
They mean "stress" as in "I stressed to him to do that". So stress can be considered correct. Therefore it will be edited.
Sturm und Drang has always been translated into English as Storm and Stress.  Always. Eusebeus 10:34, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm also German but I'd translate it to Storm and Longing..--DerMeister 18:31, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Literally: "storm and urge"

message: While I find the tid bit about Harry Potter fascinating, unless it is elaborated to explain why Rowling did this and what relation Durmstrang might have to the Sturm and Drang movement, I truly fail to see why it is included in this article.  I find that it only confuses the issue here (and I have enough trouble understanding Sturm and Drang as it is!)  Anyway, just a suggestion... 85.212.30.87 11:25, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: For readers of the Harry Potter series, it IS useful--the Durmstrang kids are dark and seem to exude the Sturm und Drang concept.  Since Harry Potter seems to be widely read, it doesn't bother me that much to leave it in.  Just my 2c. Rob 13:11, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While they might not be I don't see why a short list of trivial references to the movement wouldn't be worth mentioning, as long as their sources are mentioned and have good references.  In addition to the Durmstrang school in the Harry Potter universe, the character Talon Karrde in the Star Wars Expanded Universe owned pet creatures named Sturm and Drang.  Just a thought.  Willbyr (talk | contribs) 15:48, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrelevant Detail 

message: I just created this article as a stub. From the above discussion, it appears that this article existed once upon a time and was deleted. We should try to obtain the text of the deleted article. — goethean ॐ 18:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That would appear to be impossible. If you read the logs to the article, it shows that Jimbo Wales apparently deleted the previous version due to copyright infringements and the like. However, I just checked Google's cache, and it's still there. [Note: by 01:44, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aha. — goethean ॐ 18:34, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I honestly think the previous Pop culture references section had little-to-no value whatsoever and oughtn't to be included while we recreate this article leaning toward much more valuable depths. — ignis scripta 19:42, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article re-creation

message: The current article tells who was involved and what the principal works are, but fails to say what Sturm und Drang is.  What's it about?  How would you know it if you read it?  Jorend 18:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I second that.  Readers should be given an explaination of the style/philosophy/concept/theme associated with this literary movement.  I've seen the phrase "Sturm & Drang" referenced in several modern and avant-garde forms of media (see authors Salman Rushdie and Tom Robbins, songwriter Tom Waits, industrial rock band KMFDM), so it would be nice to know just what is being referenced, rather the somewhat ambiguous "German literary movement".  Now I'd gladly provide the necessary info, but frankly I'm quite uneducated in this movement.  --buck 16:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yes, but what is it?

message: In the German w/p the article on Sturm und Drang gives a range of different details. Could the English w/p be harmonised with the German details? Ozdaren 09:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Germany W/P

message: Should the section of this article on literary Sturm und Drang not come first, and then the music section? - Just for simple reasons of chronology, firstly, but it could also be argued that the literature is the more what one associates with the movement? John the revelator 15:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fully agree, I am switching their places. Somebody can undo if they feel it's wrong - but music tends to always be a little behind visual/literary art, tending to take its cue from it once it's been establish there, and this is no exception Lethesl 10:30, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  order of sections in article 

message: Why no mention of Beethoven, Berlioz (and even Wagner) ? Surely these are more canonically "Sturm und Drang" than Haydn? 87.194.171.29 (talk) 03:07, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Romantic Music?

message: It is worth pointing that this is a well established term in use in literary history in German departments in the English-speaking countries - since before World War II, if not already before World War I. Obviously, Storm and Stress is a conventional and not an exact or literal translation, presumably chosen partly because of the alliteration, which makes it a rather catchy expression. 
The notion implicit in some of the comments above that there is some great depth of meaning hidden in the German term is misleading. In German, Sturm und Drang is simply a convenient term for German Pre-Romantic literature of the period c. 1767-81. For what it's worth, Drang means urge, yearning and had nothing to do with stress in the sense of the stress of modern life. However, this is really beside the point as the German term is just a convenient, fixed expression. The key point is that this literature was rebellious and emotional. Norvo (talk) 04:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Term 'Storm and Stress' 

message: The first sentence of the lead is strange: 'turbulence isn't really a common translation for 'Sturm' at all. This is a mistake and needs to be modified; if there are no objections, I'll just delete everything in the parentheses before "usually translated as..."  Sindinero (talk) 21:38, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "turbulence and urgency" 

message: How on Earth is Beethoven not listed or even mentioned in the list of Sturm und Drang composers? There is perhaps no greater example of the movement than him, yet the other more purely classical/restrained composers (especially Haydn) are mentioned in favour. This definitely needs to be remedied. Any other thoughts on this? Noldorin (talk) 22:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beethoven 

message: I was taught that "Sturm und Drang" had intentional double-meanings:
Sturm = Storm = Tempest = Disorder
Drang = Urge = Needs
(relating to the negative "environment of the actors")
the other meaning is:
Sturm (from "stürmen") = Charge (like a military charge)
Drang (from "drängen") = Push (or: Drang = Sehnsucht)
(relating to the "reaction of the actors" and the original double meaning of the play-title, which was about the revolution = military)
If the double-meaning is an accepted view, I think this information should be added.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by RicardAnufriev (talk • contribs) 19:16, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Term double meaning 

message: I'm surprised that Ludwig van Beethoven is not included on this list. Considering Beethoven was a major player in the Sturm und Drang style, particularly with Symphony No. 3 "Eroica" in E-Flat Major. He used this style while he was expressing his frustration over going deaf, and his mental health was becoming unstable.
http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21618671-why-yet-another-biography-beethoven-worth-adding-your-shelves-sturm-und-drang  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:2C81:63F0:890B:C556:897:130F (talk) 23:23, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beethoven? 

message: 'The Sturm und Drang movement did not last long; according to Betty Waterhouse it began in 1771 and ended in 1778 (Waterhouse v). '
Who is Betty Waterhouse and what happened to the citation?--Bluedawe 22:01, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please fix...