Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 1

message: I am very glad this wikiproject is underway.  One of the first issues I want to bring up is a feature of the current format for team pages posted on the wikiproject page.  This is something I noticed and spurred me to want to create some sort of standard for NFL articles.  One of the sections is for "Current players".  It used to be called "Current stars"  but I changed it because I felt it was too subjective - there were plenty of players listed who were definitely not stars (just-drafted rookies for instance).  The problem now is that there seems to be no standard for who is listed under current players.  The Packers article, for instance, lists every player on the team roster, including all sorts of undrafted free agents and CFL retreads, even though only a fraction of this bunch have their own articles.  The Browns article, on the other hand, lists 11 players in this section.
I propose a general guideline for this section in team articles.
*All players that have articles in wikipedia should be listed
*All players who are starters (24 including kicker and punter) should be listed
*Any players who are not "official" starters but get significant playing time should be listed - for example, most defensive lines employ a heavy rotation that can often lead to seven or eight linemen getting playing time on the field.
*Any notable rookies (first round draft choices for the most part) should be listed.
These are quite broad guidelines that should satisfy all while keeping the list of "current players" encyclopedic.  I am guessing that with such criteria about 30-35 players from each team will be listed among "current players."--Sophitus July 5, 2005 06:29 (UTC)
:Yes, the formats are quite broad because there are so many users making various additions that I did not decide on a specific format yet. I do think we should have a seperate list for the just the starters.
:Another idea I have based on Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Team pages format is to have a table of each team's season-by-season record. In fact, I have been working on some tables at User:Zzyzx11/Sandbox/A and User:Zzyzx11/Sandbox/N. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 5 July 2005 07:24 (UTC)
::There is also an ongoing issue for listing team stars that did not make the NFL Hall of Fame or the team's Hall of Fame.  I personally feel that if a person didn't even make their own team's Hall of Fame, they are of little note.  But, referring to them as "Not to be Forgotten" sounds very dreary to me.  I prefer something along the lines of "Past Stars". Kainaw 5 July 2005 19:58 (UTC)
:Season-by-season record tables is a fantastic idea and I agree that "Past Stars" is better than "not to be forgotten".  Ultimately, which players make such lists as "past stars" or "current players"  will be somewhat POV.  I don't think there is any way to avoid this without just including everyone, which is clearly not encyclopedic.  I think that as long as we assume good faith edits and make sure there are no obviously not notable players, we can maintain good lists.  If there are no objections, I will begin editing the "current players" sections of team articles according to the criteria I have listed above.--Sophitus July 5, 2005 21:15 (UTC)
:I think season-by-season records should either be in sub-pages of main articles or not included at all.  My two reasons for this are: 1 - Some teams (like the Bears) have been around for more than 80 years.  A grid of year-by-year records would just be too unwieldy.  2 - Such a list already exists on the excellent http://www.pro-football-reference.com/.  --Cholmes75 15:56, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: format for team pages

message: Pulled from comments from Gunmetal and Sophitus above, a Head Coach list is a good idea.  It goes along with mentioning the past players.  There is the option of simply making a list of coaches or breaking up the history section by coaching eras.  It is normal in NFL terms to refer to a team's history by the eras of each coach. Kainaw 19:18, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Head coach list

message: What about player numbers?  Player names are often tied to specific numbers, especially active players.  Knowing the player's numbers makes it easy to pick out players on a field.  At least on the 'current players' list, the players could be listed as: Priest Holmes (31) RB.  On a completely different topic, the NFL page doesn't explain the player numbering system and I can't fill it in because I don't know the exact cutoffs.  I do know that a player number of 12 or less is a quarterback or kicker and a number higher than 90 is a lineman.  That's about it.  I've always wanted to know the exact number ranges for all positions. Kainaw 7 July 2005 16:21 (UTC)
The number ranges would be a good thing to add to the NFL article.  I don't know it all off the top of my head, but I can remember some numbers.  For example, all offensive linemen wear numbers between 50 and 79.  However, I don't think we should list numbers alongside players (with the exception of retired numbers).  Players' numbers change all the time and it would be difficult to continually update lists, not to mention that for the most part such information is not encyclopedic.--Sophitus July 7, 2005 20:30 (UTC)
Per NFL Rule 5, Section 1, Article 4:
*"...numerals must be by playing position as follows: quarterbacks, punters, and placekickers, 1-19 (and 10-19 for wide receivers if 80-89 are all otherwise assigned); running backs and defensive backs, 20-49; centers, 50-59 (60-79 if 50-59 unavailable); offensive guards and tackles, 60-79; wide receivers and tight ends, 80-89; defensive lineman, 60-79 (90-99 if 60-79 unavailable); and linebackers 50-59 (90-99 if 50-59 unavailable)."
Is it the consensus that this is includeable in the NFL article? --Gunmetal 19:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that is needed.  I looked at the NFL article, and I think that this will fit best by taking the "Rules named after players" section and making it a subsection of "NFL Rules".  Also under "NFL Rules", add the official numbering system, rules about challenging a play, and other NFL-specific football rules.  That will allow us to put NFL rules on the NFL page instead of putting them on the American Football page with a note that they only apply to the NFL. Kainaw 19:14, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Player numbers

message: I was thinking about changing Template:NFL to sort the teams by divisions similar to what Template:NBAteams does (except without the logos). Any thoughts? Zzyzx11 (Talk) 23:44, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:NFL]] 

message: I have finished editing the "current players" section for all team articles.  I listed all starters as well as other significant contributors, and famous rookies and veterans.  Most teams have around 25-35 players listed under this section, which I believe is comprehensive without straying far from what information is encyclopedic.
One thing I noticed while going through the team articles is the abyssmal state of many article on specific players.  Many of them are poorly constructed, contain irrelevant information, have terrible grammar and construction, are far too short, and generally represent a poor side of wikipedia.
I have done some editing and revising of these, but it is an immense task.  I hope that others will join me.  The best strategy is to just go to team pages, look for the "current players" section and go through the blue links until you find an article that is in urgent need of editing.  You can also choose some significant players who are redlinked and need to have an article started about them.
--Sophitus 22:51, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
*I agree with your suggestions. Is there like an "official" infobox or template for the Player Pages? It seems like some people have already started their own infobox on Wikipedia's NFL bio articles e.g., John Elway, Joe Montana, etc., It would be nice if there is consensus what the infobox should look like and contain. --Krystyn Dominik 23:05, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: player articles

message: Before I had seen this project I was adding photos to the Oakland Raiders page.  I think they just make the page look nicer and not so dry.  I can, however, see the inherent dangers of allowing photos.  So is this acceptable?  Are graphics allowed, with guidelines and standards, or not?  --Cholmes75 15:50, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos and graphics 

message: I took a stab at a format for the single-game NFL championship.  It's at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cholmes75/SandboxA.  Let me know what you think.
:Looks good, no suggestions yet. Phoenix2 19:41, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
OK, it's been published.  I see that there was a previous page but it was deleted.  I'll wait to see what happens with this one before doing any more.  --Cholmes75 03:45, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Championship Games format (1933-1966) 

message: I tried making some minor formatting changes and the end of the NFL article disappeared.  I tried reverting, but it made no difference.  Maybe wikipedia is just messed up right now or my browser is once again on the fritz, but would somebody check it out and make sure everything is okay since I can't accomplish it myself for some reason.  --Sophitus 18:01, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
*I fixed it. It was probably your browser. And remember that you can always revert the page back to a previous version. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 18:08, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Help

message: I would like your comments on the following articles I created: 2004 NFL season and 2005 NFL season. They are based on a number of other sports articles such as the NHL seasons and the Football World Cup articles. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 22:55, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NFL seasons 

message: ===Regular season===
                	                	                	 	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	 	Rushing	Rushing	Rushing
Season               	Team                 	League               	 	GP     	Comp   	Att    	Pct    	Yds    	TD     	INT    	 	Att    	Yds    	TD
1987                 	Green Bay            	NFL                  	 	7      	55     	127    	43.3   	875    	5      	3      	 	15     	127    	0
1988                 	Green Bay            	NFL                  	 	13     	178    	336    	53.0   	2119   	9      	11     	 	47     	225    	1
1989                 	Green Bay            	NFL                  	 	7      	55     	127    	43.3   	875    	5      	3      	 	15     	127    	0
1990                 	Green Bay            	NFL                  	 	13     	178    	336    	53.0   	2119   	9      	11     	 	47     	225    	1
1991                 	Green Bay            	NFL                  	 	7      	55     	127    	43.3   	875    	5      	3      	 	15     	127    	0
1992                 	Green Bay            	NFL                  	 	13     	178    	336    	53.0   	2119   	9      	11     	 	47     	225    	1
1993                 	Indianapolis         	NFL                  	 	7      	55     	127    	43.3   	875    	5      	3      	 	15     	127    	0
1994                 	Indianapolis         	NFL                  	 	13     	178    	336    	53.0   	2119   	9      	11     	 	47     	225    	1
1995                 	Detroit              	NFL                  	 	7      	55     	127    	43.3   	875    	5      	3      	 	15     	127    	0
1996                 	Detroit              	NFL                  	 	13     	178    	336    	53.0   	2119   	9      	11     	 	47     	225    	1
Regular season totals	Regular season totals	Regular season totals	 	93     	1056   	1905   	55.4   	12700  	66     	67     	 	248    	1114   	12
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
                     	                     	                     	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
===Playoffs===
         	         	         	 	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	 	Rushing	Rushing	Rushing
Season        	Team          	League        	 	GP     	Comp   	Att    	Pct    	Yds    	TD     	INT    	 	Att    	Yds    	TD
1995          	Detroit       	NFL           	 	1      	14     	23     	60.9   	206    	3      	2      	 	3      	16     	0
Playoff totals	Playoff totals	Playoff totals	 	1      	14     	23     	60.9   	206    	3      	2      	 	3      	16     	0
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
#The first time a team is listed, it should be linked.  Same for the league.
#In the playoffs section (if applicable), the year should link to the appropriate Wiki article on that season's playoffs.  This helps to avoid confusion as to what season the playoff run is associated with.
#My source for these stats is http://www.pro-football-reference.com/.
Let me know how this looks.  If this is acceptable, we can start populating articles with it.  I will then design ones for other positions.  --Cholmes75 18:19, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Career statistics

message: Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	Passing	 	Rushing	Rushing	Rushing
Season        	Team          	League        	 	GP     	Comp   	Att    	Pct    	Yds    	TD     	INT    	 	Att    	Yds    	TD
1995          	Detroit       	NFL           	 	1      	14     	23     	60.9   	206    	3      	2      	 	3      	16     	0
Playoff totals	Playoff totals	Playoff totals	 	1      	14     	23     	60.9   	206    	3      	2      	 	3      	16     	0
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
              	              	              	 	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	 	       	       	
#The first time a team is listed, it should be linked.  Same for the league.
#In the playoffs section (if applicable), the year should link to the appropriate Wiki article on that season's playoffs.  This helps to avoid confusion as to what season the playoff run is associated with.
#My source for these stats is http://www.pro-football-reference.com/.
Let me know how this looks.  If this is acceptable, we can start populating articles with it.  I will then design ones for other positions.  --Cholmes75 18:19, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Playoffs

message: I noticed this article tonight - American_Football_League_Hall_of_Fame.  Does this article really belong on Wikipedia?  Granted, it is a very good website and a great resource for AFL fans, but it really is just a fan website.  There is no real AFL Hall of Fame.  Not only does it have its own article, but a number of articles on players who played in the AFL have links and mentions of the site.  Obviously the author of this and another AFL website have done a lot on Wikipedia, and they are to be commended.  But does that mean we have to plug a fan site?  I wanted to get your thoughts before doing anything drastic like recommending the article for deletion.  --Cholmes75 02:25, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  AFL Hall of Fame?