Talk:List of Polish Americans/Archive 1

message: I just reduced the size of the page dramatically in order to make more room. I took off people with "red links" who do not have pages. It just makes the article way too long. 
JJstroker 23:30, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just did a huge reformation 

message: Jared Padalecki is of Polish descent, his father is Polish, and Padalecki is a Polish surname. Almost any site that has a bio on Jared mentions his Polish ancestry yet his name is being removed off of this list. Is there a reason?  Nanusia
:The above may well be true (i.e. his father being Polish), but again there isn't any good source - like an interview. I know it's frustrating when something is obvious - i.e. yes he is likely of Polish descent - but we need a good source. JackO'Lantern 22:14, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well Phoenix's mother is ethnically/culturally Jewish anyway, it's a stretch to call her anything other than that. I think the Polish Jewish section should be deleted anyway - some people on it should be moved to the main article, and some just outright don't belong (Paul Newman?). But in the Phoenixes case I haven't seen any good source that they are in any way Polish or consider themselves such. However, thank you for your sources for Kozlowski and Henner, I will re-added them (if you haven't already). Mad Jack O'Lantern 05:02, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jared Padalecki 

message: Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for current discussion of a potential policy to apply to all ethnicity lists on Wikipedia, including this one. JackO'Lantern 20:32, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethnicity lists discussion

message: Just read on a Polish Tourism Website that Axel Rose's Grandmother was Polish, however that is all I was able to find. Has anyone heard about this too?
:Here's a partial family tree. Doesn't look his maternal grandmohter was Polish, don't know about paternal. There's a new full book bio out, you could try looking there. Mad Jack O'Lantern 20:43, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds good enough for Krakowski's being back on the list. Mad Jack O'Lantern 21:05, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Axel Rose 

message: I am looking for info to confirm that Carlos Bernard is of Polish descent. All I have is his birth name, Carlos Bernard PAPIERSKI and that he was born in Illinois. Some fansites have him down as a Latino-Pole but nothing conrete.  --Nanusia 02:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This just says he is "Hispanic" . But of course that may not cover his full background. Mad Jack O'Lantern 05:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carlos Bernard of "24" 

message: *Carroll Baker - kind of a weird story on her, see discussion on her page
*Charles Bronson - some kind of weird confusion about his ethnicity going around. The Wikipedia article used to say he was Polish, so that got copied and pasted around. Anyway, a CNN bio says he was Lithuanian.. And nowadays, that's what the Wiki entry says too. USA Today says his first language was Lithuanian.
*Belinda Carlisle Belinda has a Polish-American Stepfather but she is not Polish.
*Katie Couric - Katie is not Polish, her ancestry consists of German-Jewish, French and  Irish/English 
*Nastassja Kinski - reports vary on whether her father actually had any Polish ancestry, but I doubt it. In any case, she isn't American...
*Jessica Lange  "Born in Minnesota, the granddaughter of Finnish and Dutch-German migrants"
*Phoenix family (River, Joaquin) - IMDB had up for a while that their mother is Polish. Another of their mistakes - she is the daughter of Jewish immigrants from Austria and Russia
*Paul Rudd - his parents were Jewish immigrants from England. The IMDB decided that meant he was "half Polish half French". go figure.
JackO'Lantern 04:21, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: People who were on the list, but aren't really Polish...

message: This page is too big. It also has a lot of boring lists. I mean are you really going to put down every semi famous Pole in literature, arts, sports etc? I think it should be trimed down and reserved to the most notable people and have seperate mainpage articles for the rest which can be linked from this page. The German page was huge as well and they did the same thing. I also think a good start to shorten the page is to reserve it to people who are 100 percent ethnically Polish or people who are the most noteable. So that would mean if someone has one polish grandparent and is a euro mut they should be taken off the list or a new category should be made for "Part Polish" or something. This page is huge so it makes people want to leave and not look at it. Someone should really trim it down bigtime. 
JJstroker 23:01, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Nanusia, but I am soon going to be sourcing this list the way I have recently sourced other ethnicity lists (i.e. see List of Swedish Americans or List of Vietnamese Americans. Basically only people explicitly described as "Polish Americans" or "Polish" should be on the list, in accordance with Wikipedia's Verifiability and No Original Research Policies (i.e. if the page's title is "Polish Americans", the page can include only people described as "Polish" or "Polish American" themselves in a reliable source, since we can't really make our own decisions on who can be considered Polish or not). This is being done across the board with the ethnicity lists on Wikipedia - I've finished maybe half. I think most of the people listed right now who don't just have a Polish grandparent or something will fit the definition, so it won't be a big deal. Mad Jack O'Lantern 05:14, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Started now... Mad Jack O'Lantern 06:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

text: This isn't about trimming down. I disagree with JJStroker on that - there's no reason to trim down anything, as long as the info is properly sourced under Wikipedia policy. I haven't gotten to the Italian page yet (though I've done parts of List of Italian-American actors), precisely because it is big. Most of the smaller ethnicity-American pages have already been so sourced, and the rest will be in the next few days. Mad Jack O'Lantern 21:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major trim down 

message: I have sourced the list in accordance with Wikipedia's No Original Research and Verifiability policies. Basically, anyone described by a reliable source as "Polish" or "Polish-American" (i.e. as opposed to "of Polish descent", "Polish mother", etc.) is on the list. Here are the people I couldn't find anything for. If you have a reliable source that fits that please restore the names:
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING -- it is incomprehesible to me that the rules have been changed on this Polish-Americans page at will several times to suit the whim of someone who has nothing better to do. I give up. What you are doing is a disservice to all those who want to know more about Polish American contributions to our society.
Do what you please, I am not going to participate anymore. --Nanusia 07:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC
:I didn't change the rules or make them in the first place, but after several debates on other similar pages about who to list, it was made clear to me by several people that the only way to do this, if we have these lists at all, is to strictly follow Wikipedia policy, which states that we have to report what reliable sources say, and can't make up or use our own definitions as to who is a "xxx-American" or anything else. Sorry, I know how it sounds, but so far this system has been very helpful in cleaning up several lists and resolving certain conflicts. It's not that bad after a while. Mad Jack O'Lantern 08:01, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're probably right, but if I took anyone off who was born in Poland, it was because the original source didn't describe them as Polish, and for whatever reason none of the sources I looked through when I re-researched them on Google said that either. I don't know why no one has described those people as "Polish". But I did keep people who were described as "Polish-born", even though it doesn't fully fit, but I thought it was close enough. Oh, and if I didn't care about this page, then I wouldn't have bothered looking for sources myself, which I did for this and all the other pags I've cleaned up in the past few days. In fact, I was dreading coming to this page and implementing this here, because I knew how hard you've worked on it. I was going to save it for last, but JJStoker gave me a good starting point. Now my most-dreaded page is the Greek-Americans one, because I know there are a few zealous editors on there, but never mind... Mad Jack O'Lantern 08:21, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Well I can guarantee you that these are the definitive "instructions", as they now are for every other ethnicity page. There have been attempts and policy proposals (and I was even involved in some) to try and set some sort of standards that all the lists would follow - but they were all eventually defeated or voted down simply because we can only really follow Wikipedia policy itself, which is fairly simple. But do note, however, that when I removed names/sources yesterday, a majority of them were added by me as well. So I am undoing my own work as well, but it has to be done and all the lists have to be put in synch, which they currently are. Oh, and of course we are supposed to work as a community, but we have to follow the basic policies. Make no question about the fact that I made a mistake by not letting you know sooner, or not implementing the policies earlier. Mad Jack O'Lantern 20:55, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And what happens if someone's source disappears?  What if it is from an online article that is no longer available?  How can facts last? Michael 00:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. We usually have the quote from the source, though. If it's a print source, it can be cited to that. There are sometimes caches of old web pages out there, too. But yes, sometimes pages just vanish completely... Mad Jack 00:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And if we don't we just lose information that may be perfectly valid but impossible to access a source to so as to confirm it? Michael02:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: The 1998 PBS program "The Polish Americans", which was co-produced by WLIW21 (New York), WMHT17 (Schenectady) and WVIZ25 (Cleveland), mentioned the following actors as offical Polish-Americans: CARROLL BAKER, JACK PALANCE, GLORIA SWANSON and LORETTA SWITT,  along with several others including: Poli Negri, Stephanie Powers, Gilda Grey, Bobby Vinton, Adam Makowicz, Col. Francis s. Gabreski, and CASEY SIEMASZKO (who narrated the entire program). Relying on the internet is ineffective when trying to verify ethnicity; it is far too limited.  Hardcopy newspapers, magazines and encyclopedias, as well as, TV spots, are more likely to mention ethnic affiliation.  Sad to say but this Polish-Americans list has gone to the dogs.
:Are you sure about some of those? Jack Palance? He's very well known to be Ukrainian-American (see ) and I bet he'd be surprised to be described as Polish. There's no problem at all with using off-line sources, but if this documentary included Palance then it may have some errors. Carroll Baker is a weird story which I am not sure about. It seems there's a rumor her original last name was "Karolina Pieralski" (or something to that extent), but no reliable sources list it as that, and several actually list her parents' names as "William and Virginia Baker". I'll see if I can properly cite the other people you mentioned. Mad Jack O'Lantern 08:12, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I just checked, and NNDB lists her parents' names as  William Baker and Virginia Duffy, although they repeat the old "Karolina Pieralski" thing as well! I guess they don't mind contradicting themselves. Mad Jack O'Lantern 08:16, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Do you have a source for Palance? All I've ever seen is Ukrainian. Baker, as I said, is a weird one. NNDB is not a reliable source for anything, but Baker's parents' names are listed as William and Virginia Baker in several places, including normally reliable sites like  and . I guess a possible solution to this mystery would be to find one of the autobiography books she has written Mad Jack O'Lantern 08:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also can't find a William and Virginia Piekarski on the 1930 US census. Mad Jack O'Lantern 08:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PBS Documentary "The Polish-Americans" 

message: Nick Adams' father was Ukrainian, even your source says so - shouldn't there be a mention that Adams is at least half Ukrainian?  He isn't even on the Ukrainian-Americans list. Someone who created or edited his article claimed his father was Lithuanian (I left a comment in the TALK or discussion area).  Adams, Palance and John Hodiak - are all half and half (Pole and Ukrainian). Hodiak lived in Hamtramack , MI and identified with being Polish and Ukrainian. Palance was raised in Lattimer which was pre-dominantly Polish populated town in Luzcerne County, PA. He tended to ID himself as Polish in the 1970's.  Polish-Ukrainian couples were a common occurance in PA and other places on the East Coast during the first waves of immigration to the States before WWII because of need to be with people who were similar to their own culture and language in a strange and new country.
Anyhow, I hope that Nick Adams is accurately identified at some point.
--IsisTheQueen 23:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a good source that Palance referred to himself as Polish? That would be good for getting him on here. If you want, you can certainly add the fact that Adams' father was Ukrainian to the citation we have (especially since it's from the same source) Mad Jack 07:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

text: No - I have no evidence for Palance, just watched a lot of TV and I remember that as a kid hearing him talk about his Polish roots from Europe, and at the time, he really didn't speak about being Ukrainian that came later.  I think he has kind of recognized that he can say Ukrainian now a days and know that he will finally NOT be identified as a Russian - McCarthy era and the Cold War ended but left somewhat of a stigma on those people who were originally from parts of the USSR. Thanks for your suggestion. I'm trying to figure out how this all works out. Reading these discussion boards (not just here) I get the impression that people get easily rattled and I don't want to step on toes though I will make it my business to step on toes as soon I as figure all this out!--IsisTheQueen 08:39, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nick Adams 

message: On TV during one of the finals that she was skating at the broadcasters said that Zsa Zsa was on her way to getting her Polish passport. And then they blah blah blahed that she has dual citizenship because her Polish grandparents on her mom's side never relinquished their Polish citizenship so that means Zsa Zsa (really annoying name) and her mother are still considered Polish citizens and that's also why she has been skating for her "other" country, Poland. 
--IsisTheQueen 09:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zsa Zsa 

message: Leelee Sobieski, according to her own Wikipedia entry, is the daughter of a man (Jean) born in France to Polish parents. Please return her to the list.---BDH
*Stanley Dunin - aerospace engineer
Elonka, Stanley Dunin's daughter, wrote his Wikipedia article. I think that is as first hand as someone gets. - jpk
*This is, in fact, part of the problem with the Dunin articles themselves. Though Elonka Duning may well be reliable, anything she contributes without citing to some kind of source is definitely Original Research - it may well be accurate, but it's not verfiable -or at least, not easily verifiable (Because Wikipedia users, though they may well be the real thing when it comes to who they claim to be - and I'm sure Dunin is - are still unreliable). That's why both the Dunin pages were nominated for deletion, and there are still a lot of facts on Stanley Dunin's page that are hard to actually confirm. Mad Jack 22:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you will review the articles at my "press" page , you will see that plenty of media outlets (CNN, NPR, MSNBC, AP, BBC, etc.) regard me and my websites as reliable sources. Please also review WP:AUTO and Wikipedia:Verifiability.  Personal websites are considered valid sources as long as it's not for particularly "aggrandizing" information, and is not contradicted by other published sources. --Elonka 03:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't say "you" weren't a reliable source, I said Wikipedia users aren't supposed to be reliable sources, as far as I can tell. Personal websites are good, most of the time. I haven't taken a look at your personal website, yet. However, I am not the boss of this page and if someone wants to add a name sourced to something reliable that says someone is Polish-American or Polish, if they are also American, then I don't see why they don't feel free to do that. Mad Jack 04:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sigh.... do the just-added sources actually describe either of the Dunins themselves (as opposed to their ancestors) as Polish or Polish-American? Mad Jack 04:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leelee Sobieski 

message: I removed some people who I could definitely not find described as actually being Polish-Americans (i.e. "Polish/Russian father", "my background is Irish/French/Native/Polish"). If one wants to put a person on a "List of X", one must find a source that specifically says the person they are adding is an "X", not "of X descent", "has X,Y,Z,D heritage", etc., or anything else that in a Wikipedia contributor's opinion would make that person an "X". This is true for all of Wikipedia, and applies to lists as it does to articles. See User:Grace Note's and others' posts on Talk:List of British Jews or Talk:List of Greeks for all of this. I left a few names in where the sources didn't actually say the person was Polish-American. I don't have time right now but I will look for sources that say that for those. Mad Jack 06:08, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Didn't you state that if we have a direct quote from someone saying he or she is of a certain descent that that is relevant?  Now, even going off Wikipedia's definition of what a Polish American is, it is an "American citzen of Polish descent."  I am unclear as to how someone may be of a certain heritage in that case and not considered to be of that heritage at the same time when the definition is stated quite clearly.  A Polish American is someone of Polish descent-it needn't be someone who stated directly that they are Polish American, for example.  Stating you are of Polish descent inherently implies that.  How doesn't it? Michael 07:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to call someone an "X" you have to have a source that calls something an "X". If someone is of "X descent", then they may be "X American" or they may not be. That's up to whichever reliable sources - including the person themselves, obviously - to announce. But doing "X descent + Y definition = X in my opinion" is precisely the kind of synthesis of published info that is not allowed under Wikipedia:No Original Research. Stating they are of Polish descent may imply it, as you've said, but we can only post hard facts, not implications. Regardless of all that, on a personal note, I still can't fathom the interest some people - not just you - have in adding celebrities to as many categories or lists based on ethnicity is possible. I am all for noting verified ethnic background in the article, despite the fact that many others think it's irrelevant, but as for the categories and the lists - I just can't see the encyclopedic value of adding people based on various grandparents or parents, when they themselves may well not describe themselves as "X-American". "X-American" is a very specific label, just like "homosexual", "Republican" or "gardener". If we want to use the label - we need someone else to use it on that person first. We can't be the first. Mad Jack 07:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As for JoJo herself, Wikipedia:Citing sources says that "This means that any material that is challenged and has no source may be removed by any editor." So, in this case, I challenge the fact that JoJo can be specifically described as a Polish-American. I have seen no sources that describe her as a Polish-American, or as Polish (since we know she is an American). All I've seen is her saying that she has an interest in her family background, which includes Polish/French/etc. She does not describe herself as "Polish" (i.e. "I am Polish") or "Polish-American". Mad Jack 07:09, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what remains unclear to me.  In the interview, she comments that she is of Polish descent, how is that uncited?  It means she is of Polish descent.  Where exactly is the mean by which you are defining Polish Americans actually listed? Michael 21:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly, she says she has French, Polish, Native American and Irish ancestry. That is perfectly fine to note in exactly that format on her page. But at which point is she referred to as a Polish-American? Or "Polish"? As I said, those are specific labels, and we apply them when reliable sources apply them. Otherwise, we're doing original research - our own synthesis of published info - i.e. We see something that says she has Polish ancestry, among others, and we translate it to labelling her as "Polish-American", even if no one else has done so in her case. If JoJo says "I'm Polish" or if something calls JoJo a "Polish-American", then we should definitely include her in a list that is titled Polish-Americans. As for a definition? There is none and we should have none and no criteria, except for the same criteria we use on any other article on Wikipedia - if a reliable source says a person is specifically "X", we can put that person on a "List of X" and call them an "X". If a reliable source didn't call that person specifically "X", we can't either, and we can't use any other statements that in our opinion makes that person an "X", like "X grandmother", "X/Y/S descent", "I have X and Y heritage", etc. Mad Jack 22:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

text: So we go don't apply the definition listed on Wikipedia where it defines Polish American, Italian Americans, German Americans, etc.? Michael 22:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

text: If a source defines a Polish American as an "American of Polish descent", then that implies that Americans of Polish ancestry are Polish Americans. Michael 23:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But we don't go on implications, do we? We go on hard facts as reported by reliable sources. We can't do the math ourselves, i.e. "If Polish-American equals the very vague definition of "Polish descent"" + this source says person X has a Polish grandmother = therefore person X must be a Polish-American is original research. We need a good source to do that math for us. (not to mention that not every person who is even 100% Polish considers themselves a Polish-American) Mad Jack 23:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But whether or not they "consider" themselves to be Polish Americans is not a part of the definition of "Polish American' as we have it defined on Wikipedia.  It's defined on a strict factual basis-an "American of Polish descent." Michael 23:10, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Then, perhaps you should change the definition to mean someone who considers him or herself to be a Polish American or a French American.  That seems to efface the meaning, in a sense, though. Michael 23:31, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But it's not exclusively through self-identification. "X-American" is a label that could refer to a national, ethnic, cultural or self-identified identity. Or several of them. Or just one. Maybe I should've put it to you before in another way - a "Polish American" is indeed an American of Polish descent. But - is every American of Polish descent a Polish-American? Mad Jack 00:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Going under strict interpretation, then yes, based on Wikipedia's standards. Michael 00:30, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean? The article (if we chose to trust it) doesn't say that every American of Polish descent is a Polish-American. It just says every Polish-American is an American of Polish descent, which is definitely true. Mad Jack 00:33, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Giving you a good example the horse article says a horse is "a large odd-toed ungulate mammal". OK. Does this mean every large odd-toed ungulate mammal is a horse? Definitely not. Same thing here. Though a person may fit the definition, it does not automatically mean that they are actually a Polish-American, just as every odd-toed ungulate mammal is not a horse - though some are. We need the sources to tell us who is. Mad Jack 00:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The horse's definition is further expanded, though, while such as the Polish Americans definition moves on to various things which tend to be (but are not always) typical of Polish Americans.  Most is strictly a historical background.  The article doesn't leave room for exceptions, though, and neither does  Wikipedia.  If we cannot consider someone a Polish American because they don't expressly say that (but still say they are of Polish heritage), then how can we be so loose in our interpretation of something else? Michael 00:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Thank you. Michael 01:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  A Polish nanny? Come on! I will remove any name on this list that is not sourced to a source that calls that person a Polish-American, or Polish. Editor decisions can not over ride Wikipedia policy, which states that we can not call people what reliable sources have not called them. Again, this is an encyclopedia, not a random collection of information. Any list that puts someone on because of a grandparent's nationality or ethnicity is not exactly an encyclopedia-level list; this isn't a One-drop rule-based list. If you wish to list everyone in the US with some level of Polish ancestry, you should start a website or something akin to that. But this is a list of Polish-Americans - and being a Polish-American is encyclopedic enough for an article and a list of people who are, indeed, Polish-American, not who had a Polish grandmother, mother, or nanny, but who are themselves Polish-Americans and have been described as exactly, and I mean exactly, that by a reliable source, including in their own words. Mad Jack 04:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and by the way, rigid rules that fit the policies to a T do solve problems. For one, it solves the problem of editors deciding who is or is not a Polish-American, an Italian-American, an Atheist, a Republican, a Jew, a transsexual, or any other label out there. We don't get to decide these things. We only get to report exactly what others said on them. Wikipedia is just a messenger, and it delivers the message exactly as sent. Mad Jack 05:00, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And a third point - the Tea Leoni thing sounds like interesting information (well not the Polish nanny thing, obviously, but the inspired by grandmother, etc.). If you are aware of that and have a source for it, it is precisely the kind of thing that should be in her article, to add depth and detail to it. Mad Jack 05:27, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Just tryin' to bring the lists in order under Wikipedia policy. It is clear that she respects her grandmother, but what does that have to do with her grandmother being Polish? Speaking of which, you should create an article for her grandmother, who seems to pass the notability standards. You could definitely list her grandmother with this source, which describes her as "Polish" (she was American). By the way, I should have quoted this earlier, from Wikipedia:No original research: Editors often make the mistake of thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article in order to advance position C. However, this would be an example of a new synthesis of published material serving to advance a position, and as such it would constitute original research. "A and B, therefore C" is acceptable only if a reliable source has published this argument in relation to the topic of the article. Just so you know that I didn't make up the whole thing where we can't connect A  and B to make C. I.e. make a Polish-American out of someone who was described as something else. Mad Jack 07:00, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, you know what I meant by that comment - that when Casey was a mid-level star, the internet did not exist and the sources never made their way online, or at least did not surive. Madonna is still in the public eye - but you were not comparing them anyway. Feel free to laugh - I am here to amuse, primarily, though it seems I have mostly failed to do so. There's another bit on the policy that I have not quoted before - you don't want to hear it, I'm sure - but "But in an article about Jones, the paragraph is putting forward the editor's opinion that, given a certain definition of plagiarism, Jones did not commit it. Regardless of the fact that his opinion appears to be supported, other things being equal, by the Chicago Manual of Style, it remains the editor's opinion." So in an article about whether or no Person X is Polish-American, the part is putting forward the editor's opinion that, given a certain definition of a Polish-American, Person X is Polish-American. But regardless of the fact that this opinion may be supported by whichever definition of Polish-American, it remains the editor's opinion - if it has not been expressed anywhere else specifically on that person. Mad Jack 23:06, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removals

message: Is a reliable source?  Who is "Daniela Skrzypczak"? Carroll Baker (see her discussion page) may well be a complete mistake, and I don't know about Bacall. Large listings of names are tricky to use as sources, is there anything that separates this from just "some guy's website"? The fact that most of the images have died don't help the page seem very reputable. Mad Jack 21:04, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Needless to say, Angelfire, Geocities, etc. are the very definition of "some guy's website". I suppose, if one of these sites have a transcript of a reliable source - i.e. you know an interview, etc. - that would be reliable - especially if it was a scanned image. But in on themselves, anyone can register and start up a Geocities site. Mad Jack 21:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Some guy's website"

message: Can someone editing this page please explain to users on TALK:List of Polish Jews why we should not put Americans born of Polish descent on lists of Poles or Polish Jews. Thanks. 141.213.212.42 12:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Polish Americans on list of Poles

message: The title of the section seems to fit better with Jewish Americans who were born in the U.S. but whose parents emigrated from Poland -- yet there so many Polish born Jews on the list and keep getting placed back. Why would you put a person in this category if they were a Polish Jew born and raised in Poland?  Many of the scientists/composers who I moved from this list to the main Polish-Americans section were living and working in Poland until late in life so it only makes sense to represent them correctly. Their nationality was Polish since they were born on Polish soil, even if their ethnicity and religion was Jewish. So really, they should be considered Polish-American Jews or Polish-Jewish Americans. Perhaps one of those would be a better title? The curret title is confusing.
Any objections to changing it?--24.5.130.89 08:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on American Jews with recent Polish Ancestors