Talk:Telaga

message: I don't agree with this deletion. In the first place, it is not duplicating content from the Kapu (caste) page. It is about the status classification of the Telaga caste. Secondly, I don't think it is appropriate for unregistered users to go above our heads, so to speak, and get senior admins to make edits of their liking via Help desk requests. They haven't generated consensus here. Pinging  as well. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:35, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Kautilya3. The change actually looks to me more like an attempt to remove what some caste members would consider to be a derogatory description, a problem that is common with caste-related articles. We're not censored and we shouldn't expect the reader to jump around articles for a materially significant piece of information. I'm not sure about using a blogspot source but it's late here and I'll check that out tomorrow. - Sitush (talk) 22:56, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Kautilya, Sitush, hope you're doing well. I understand what you're trying to say. I've added back two of the reliable deleted references but I have tweaked the sentences a bit from those sources to represent exactly what they mention. I've not added the blogspot source as that is unreliable. Please give a look to the article and do please feel free to liberally revert my changes (or even the earlier deletion in case you believe you would want that within the article). Warmly, Lourdes 01:30, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Sure. We'll need a reliable source that confirms the same. Would you be able to provide such a source here? Thanks. Lourdes 04:16, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, scratch my previous sentence. I've found a reliable source and added it to the article along with the detail to the infobox. Thanks. Lourdes 04:33, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Oddly enough, government sources are not usually considered to be reliable for caste articles. That's because they often contradict each other, contain ambiguities, cite deprecated Raj writers without much thought for reality, change frequently depending on which community is shouting the loudest on a particular day, etc. If you review the history of the Kapu article, I think you will realise that you have probably been dealing with a sock also. It's a tricky area, is caste on Wikipedia. You've done well to even find a government source that lists any community as Forward because it is a default category, ie: if not Other Backward Class, Scheduled Caste etc then must be Forward. Whether it is accurate is a whole new ballgame and it is perhaps a classic example of why not to use primary sources (in this instance, legal documents) unless there is also a secondary to support it. Probably best not to make a habit of it. - Sitush (talk) 06:33, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

text: This is an interesting document, partly because of its rarity in seemingly trying to list all groups that are not in OBC, ST, SC categories. It includes Telaga but note that for some reason it very deliberately avoids using the word Forward and, while it may just be a case of bureaucratic dotting i's/crossing t's, it is appealing to the public for input regarding its accuracy! - Sitush (talk) 06:59, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Sitush. I can fathom your point; it's a complicated nation. I'm not an expert on the Indian caste system. In my research, I sense that it is the government that classifies classes as backward class. Therefore, in my opinion, it may be appropriate to go by the government source definition of whether Telaga is (or is not) backward. I also sense that journalists and researchers may use the term "backward class" literally rather than through the lens of the strict governmental definition. Therefore, to play safe, I suggest that we remove the "forward class" definition from the infobox and the article, and rather tweak the sentences to clarify that Telaga is not (yet) classified as a backward class by the government. What do you and Kautilya have to say on this? I'll appreciate your inputs significantly. Warmly, Lourdes 14:09, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll let Kautilya3 post their thoughts first but just for your info, the designation of "Backward Class" originated in the later years of the :British Raj. They originally introduced a census category called "Depressed Classes", later adjusted to BC. :Census of India prior to independence gives you a flavour of the complications (even if it does mean I am blowing my own trumpet as the major contributor). - Sitush (talk) 14:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Well put, Kautilya3. And that elaborates nicely on my comment above re: there being no mention of forward in the document I found, as well as perhaps highlighting my point re: internal contradictions vis-a-vis government documents. We (Wikipedia) are being used as part of a legitimisation game that is being played out in the real world. I have little doubt that people will cite this article when it suits their cause, just like other castes do, but it isn't our job to make decisions like this and when there is doubt + lack of secondary sources it is usually best for us to say nothing. - Sitush (talk) 19:52, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Kautilya, Sitush, thanks for providing these insights. I've gained clarity on multiple points. Likewise, I have removed the notes of the community being classified as forward in both the infobox and the main text. I have also given the exact quote from the government order rather than use it to paint the whole community as being forward. Finally, I've created a new notes section to provide a citation for something that had a citation needed tag. I hope the current format looks acceptable. Do tell please. Thanks for taking this much effort to respond. Warmly. Lourdes 00:58, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, I am afraid that the classification done in the Madras Presidency, during the British colonial administration, is important, because that was when caste was taken seriously. After independence, the Indian government decided that caste should be banished, and so nothing was done to uplift any castes. So whatever was the reality during the British times continues to be so today. So, I will reinstate that. Balagopal's assertion that the union of all the Kapu subcastes is "unconsummated" is out of date. In recent developments, all Kapus acted in unison. So, I will amend that as well. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:55, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello , I'm in broad overall agreement with your edits. Some points I feel you may consider are 1. To not delete Balagopal's assertion that the union of subcastes is unconsummated. This is a cited scholarly statement. I feel if you personally disagree with it, then you should perhaps counter the statement using reliable sources to provide the alternative view, rather than deleting the initial scholarly view. 2.  You may of course reinstate that; but do consider not using the blogspot source to support the same. Thanks for the edits you have made till now; they add good value and structure. Warmly. Lourdes 02:41, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of caste status discussion 

message: The following request was made at EAR and is being copied here for someone versed in the subject matter of this article to deal with. — TransporterMan (TALK) 16:48, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue of forward versus backward caste has already been discussed significantly above and consensus matches the current state of the article. Also, blogspot/tripod/naidumatrimony.com are unreliable sources and cannot be relied upon for editorial validation. Thanks. Lourdes 09:04, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  there has been a very disruptive sockfarm operating re: these titular and status claims. Since that farm is recently active, I would be inclined simply to ignore any comments by anons and newly-registered accounts which clearly do not meet our policies etc. - Sitush (talk) 09:15, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request made at the Editor Assistance Noticeboard 

message: Amit Rawat - Anyone add below information to Telaga caste
Telaga is a Community of the Indian state of Andhra Pradesh, concentrated primarily in the Coastal Areas of Andhra. The Telagas are Agriculturists by Profession and have been Feudal landlords. Telaga is a Branch or a Division of the Kapu, or Naidu Community of Andhra.They have the caste title Naidu.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.147.202.105 (talk) 16:52, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content to add for Telaga Caste 

message: What is Telaga caste?
Also Telaga caste is mostly confined to Andhra Pradesh only especially Coastal Andhra Pradesh. Telaga/Kapu means the same and they carry the title Dora which means Feudal Land Owning Castes.
: Please provide a reliable source. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:32, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a source for what material? It does not mention the caste at all. Lourdes 02:54, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is telaga caste ? Can admin or any other user add this to Wikipedia 

message: This is not correct, can someone change it ?
Look at the latest news from Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh; Telaga is not included in Backward Caste
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/andhra-pradesh-jagan-scraps-kapu-quota-says-not-legally-tenable-1575238-2019-07-30
*Your man is talking about Other Backward Class, which is different from backward castes. Telaga is a backward caste, not an Other Backward Class. I have corrected the page to represent that. Thanks, Lourdes 06:26, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Lourdes, they are all the same thing. The government uses the term "class", but people interpret it to mean caste. The Telugu Desam Party gave them the OBC status in 2017. But the YSR Congress party removed it in 2019, saying it is not tenable. I will fix the page. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:26, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure. Please do give me some reliable sources that confirm what you're mentioning. In my review of sources, these two came out to be different. Warmly, Lourdes 18:09, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Since 2017, Telaga is classified as a backward class by the Government of Andhra Pradesh,[6][7] ??? This is incorrect 

message: Take this paragraph in the introductory section  :
"In 2017, all Kapus including Telagas were categorised among backward classes by the Government of Andhra Pradesh,[6][7][8] The classification was not accepted by the Central department of personnel and training" 
This paragraph does not add any information of current relevance for in a later section we have this :
"The Central department of personnel and training objected to the inclusion of Kapus as it was not supported by facts.[9] The government subsequently allocated 5% reservation out of the 10% allocated to Economically Weaker Sections. This too was found to be legally untenable, and the new government led by YSR Congress reversed the decision"
In short the decision to allocate qouta for Kapus has been reversed and was never accepted by the Central government in the first place.
I do not see any continued relevance of the paragraph I mentioned in the introductory section. If anything it promotes an image that the community is a backward caste as my recent experience indicates. 
I understand what can be attributed to a mistake should never be attributed to malice. That being said given how toxic caste culture is India and the Indian side of the internet I cannot help but suspect this.
It's therefore requested of the admins to please remove this paragraph.
Thanks. Psi93 (talk) 17:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: There are three citations given. I have no reason to believe that it didn't happen. So, it cannot be removed. All the debates that happen regarding categorisation will be listed here. We have no way to determine what is "current relevance" and what is not. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:45, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

text: An encyclopaedia is not supposed to give information only about the status as of date. It is supposed to provide historical and empirical details that provide a wholesome understanding of this enduring topic. So, no, the information should not be removed. Thanks, Lourdes 01:24, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is the introductory section suggesting Telagas as a backward caste? 

message: Can someone update the Telaga article with good news and provide what was there past, where do they reside and are they spread all across the worldwide  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.58.168.138 (talk) 19:54, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone update the Telaga article with good news and provide what was there past, where do they reside and are they spread all across the worldwide 

message: Telaga people are Dravidian or Aryan race ? There history says they are OLD Aryan; What is Old aryan race ?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.58.168.138 (talk) 20:49, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Telaga people are Dravidian or Aryan race ? There history says they are OLD Aryan; What is Old aryan race ? 

message: I have information regarding notable people. If you allow I can add it. Vikas4554 (talk) 18:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2020 

message: Telaga population?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.117.66.2 (talk) 20:35, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is Telega Dora population in Telangana, Andhra and Rayalaseema 

message: Forward or backward ?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.10.154.121 (talk) 17:50, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why this page article is confusing ? Is Telaga caste today considered forward or backward ? 

message: Occupations, Wealthy people percentage, Education & Industries for Telaga caste ?
What is their percentage in Hyderabad, Vizag, Nellore and Tirupathi ?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.233.119.139 (talk) 20:09, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Occupations, Wealthy people percentage, Education & Industries  

message: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Telugu_castes  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.121.49.238 (talk) 20:08, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add the below URL to Telaga caste page 

message: Telaga is a community of agriculturists (Kapu) in the Andhra Pradesh concentrated in the Visakhapatnam, East Godavari, West Godavari, Krishna and Guntur districts. smaller number in Vizianagaram and Srikakulam districts. Shivan Naiker (talk) 09:48, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Telaga" Population districts 

message: Reference (6) and content related to reference (6) need to be removed, as the referenced content no more available and the referenced document retrieved in 2011. Ganesh888 (talk) 15:41, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've linked to an archived copy of the document, not removed it. Danski454 (talk) 20:04, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 October 2022