Talk:Pastoral care

message: The article should maybe explain the expression pastoral when talking about a Church leader ; the term pastoral is usually given to the more liberal and populist members of the episcopacy. ADM (talk) 15:58, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That stems probably (am too shy to put it into the article) a) from the widespread church law phrase that a pastor may dispense himself from church law (e. g. in liturgy) "for pastoral reasons" which can mean quite sense-making reasons, as in allowing an open air mess for a religious festival, and rather not sense-making reasons, as in generally picking one of two lessons on Sunday for making Mass shorter. b) from the widespread, and unjust, accusation that pastors who are not "progressive" ("liberal") and populistic be no shepherders but "only care for orders". --84.154.75.202 (talk) 12:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: “Pastoral” bishops

message: To me, the article appears as not stating much about Roman Catholic pastoral care. E. g. the respective section begins with "p. c. for the sick is very important" which is a) obvious because pastoral care for anybody is important, b) where we would really like to hear first what it is before hearing what care for whom may be specifically important (and it'd be fine to hear what that care is too). Then we hear something about the meaning of the S. o. Penance which belongs into the respective article, and without any properly given connection. No offense; I don't want to make it better know (and I am no expert in any way, either), but just some suggestions.
There should be a distinction between pastoral care and Church hierarchy. St. Thomas seems to take "those who have the cure of souls" as somewhat the upper class of priests, including all bishops (in his age of course, there were no retired bishops, but it might be proposed that by virtue of his ordination rank alone, a bishop belongs to those in at least a symbolical way) and some that are specifically elected from the priests. Whereas there are priests who have no cure of souls, and priests can lawfully reject it. This is reflected in Church law as well when it says that both a parish priest and a Confession hearer must be checked if he fits the requirements. On the other hand, current Church practice seems to put it the other way round, so that there are pastoral workers and among these, some are priests, some are lay religious (and all religious are into pastoral care too, at least it has the look) and some are nothing at all. 
There should be said briefly what pastoral care does, in which way it has to do with dispensing the Sacraments, what is the estate conscience of the lay pastoral worker - and an estate conscience of the lay minister must have been developed, or how would we find a 45-aged male married pastoral worker without the rank of Deacon. What does theology say to the lay pastoral worker. What does theology say to the specific role of lay religious pastoral workers - by law that should be the same I think, but it isn't the same to the people? What does theology say about the pastoral work of the ordained - but sacramentology as in things like "ordinary or extraordinary dispenser" etc. may be well dealt with in the sacrament articles; problems however belong here too? Shouldn't the pastoral work of the ordained be the main, chief and model pastoral work to which the other is less in frequency, subordinated as an auxiliary, and modelled after as far as possible sacramentologically? Just some suggestions. --84.154.75.202 (talk) 12:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Roman Catholic pastoral care 

message: The present article Cure of souls is not much more than an (unmarked) stub. Also, its content seems to be about a special case of pastoral care. Thus, I think it should be included into this article (perhaps expanding the RCC treatment a little, and including the reference to the Cath. Encyclopedia).
Alternatively, I'm wrong, and the concepts are indeed different; but then Cure of soul ought to be expanded into something where readers like me understand the rationale for the separate article. JoergenB (talk) 21:27, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Support, pretty clearly falls under pastor care. --JFHutson (talk) 15:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Include "Cure of souls" 

message: This article in it's current form is a fail for Wikipedia. It presents a biased religious point of view rather than a neutral point of view. It cites no references to support statements such as ", and its value and helpfulness is now recognised as applicable to people generally in their everyday life." i.e who recognizes this and why? It contains original 'research' by citing the bible directly, and lists no unbiased/credible sources in it's bibliography.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.57.232 (talk) 12:59, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  No references and not neutral 

message: These edits expanded the article by copy-pasting a list of definitions from medical sources. Unhelpfull; the jargon is almost unreadable, and uninformative. Healthcare workers, take a look at religions: the essence is condensed in commands, not in definitions. "A just man is a man who abides by the rules of God, practices them in his daily life, and care for his fellow human beings, as expressed in ...." - versus "Love thy neigbor!" Or: "I vow not to enter Nirvana untill all living beings are released" ('If nothing whay=t you do will do, then what will you do?" Hisamatsu). 'Geen woorden, maar daden', that is, 'action speaks louder than words.' Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:04, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy-past9ng definitions 

message: Tilda Norberg is not a notable topic. According to Wikipedia she is "a Christian minister, therapist and author. Norberg is the founder and first president of Gestalt Pastoral Care, Inc., a school of pastoral care that combines Christian healing practice with principles of gestalt theoretical psychotherapy." Therefore, I am probably going to change that page to a redirect to this article. Also, I am merging some of the references to this article under a "Further reading" section because they seem to apply to Pastoral Care mixed in with Gestalt techniques. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 04:43, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Tilda Norberg

message: It strikes me as an unsourced and unnecessary claim to open this article with the statement 'Pastoral care is a postmodern term'. If anything, a notion that sits outside of individual religious traditions and describes a common function from ancient times might be considered to be secular modernist, but I'm not even sure that claim is worth making. I reviewed the linked article about postmodernism, and I don't see the fit.
I'm changing that phrasing to 'contemporary term', especially since the link to postmodernism is itself unsourced. Happy to entertain an alternative solution.
(edit- forgot to sign, been a minute)
Extraface (talk) 12:59, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it a postmodern term? 

message: The lede and the Modern context paragraph read like a mockery of the topic purporting to be written in scientific jargon, à la Sokal affair. 89.64.27.11 (talk) 23:51, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Months upon months of vandalism? 

message: I see in the edit history, one user particularly is going to great lengths to separate "Pastoral Ministry" and "Pastoral Care"; however the article itself includes a large body of pastoral ministry information. If these concepts are so separate, best to take any "Ministry" information out of this article completely and break it out into its own page. There is very little content applying to pastoral care itself and with the article as is, it is very confusing. I wanted to read a non-biased and appropriate article on "Pastoral Care" and I fear that I have not found that here.  If I had more expertise I'd rework it myself, but if someone truly knowledgeable in the subject can please clean this article up. I feel like posting a tag, like NPOV but I can't think of the proper tag at the moment. (no login but long time user - I rarely edit wikipedia so don't even remember my account) 24.80.124.105 (talk) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Fiaali'i, please attribute and Read this discussion page before you revert edits. This page has multiple issues and they are mentioned here already. Adding additional tags as this is a veryt interesting development. Your new tag is even more telling. 24.80.124.105 (talk) 23:55, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

text: The "God gene", in which the reference #5 wholly refers to, had a link to God gene which calls it a hypothesis. That's great, but calling it "scientific, measurable, and heritable" is a very, very gross misuse of facts. To then, simply take 'out' the link, so no one can follow up, show some strong bias. 24.80.124.105 (talk) 00:04, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

text: User:Fiaali'i please use the talk page and not just the edit summaries for your discussions. This article has multiple issues. Do not simply revert. 24.80.124.105 (talk) 00:06, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Article continues to be reverted without any contribution in the talk page. User has reached out to me to try to "talk" to me privately to "discuss". User please use this talk page. Wikipedia requires clarity. 24.80.124.105 (talk) 00:29, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pastoral Care vs Pastoral Ministry 

message: If Pastoral Ministry is to be considered distinct from Pastoral Care, I suggest removing the third, fifth, sixth, and seventh paragraph in this article as it is irrelevant and confusing, it seems to imply that they are the same thing. The entire second section (par 5,6,7) is only about Pastoral Ministry. This would leave the article as a stub, however. 24.80.124.105 (talk) 15:51, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove Pastoral Ministry 

message: Not only should this phrase really not be on any Wikipedia article, the wording wholly misrepresents the subject.
The idea of a "genetic, measurable and heritable" is based on a single book, not a scientific consensus, and if followed through you can see that it doesn't even hold a lot of scientific water. That's fine to call it a hypothesis, but to say from that "the human spirit is genetic, measurable and heritable " is very, very wrong. 
If there is still insistence on using genetic, measurable and heritable then I will tag this as "original research".
I have a feeling that this change was from a sockpuppet, looking at this article's edit history, and the user's editing habit; although this is only an assumption.
Please note no one "owns" wikipedia articles, they are crowdsourced for editing. The phrase "genetic, measurable and heritable" absolutely fails wikipedia's standards and I will continue to revert it if there is no discussion added to this talk page. Please see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch for more details. 24.80.124.105 (talk) 02:29, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  genetic, measurable and heritable 

message: I want to call attention also to someone deleting maintenance attributes to this article, such as actual details (making the tag say "No problem specified") <- very suspicious, and also removing date tags. 
Again, there has been absolutely no discussion in the talk page and I'm just here by myself yelling into the void. 24.80.124.105 (talk) 02:34, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting Maintenance tag attributes 

message: As the article stands it is a dogs breakfast. Given that the topic is "Pastoral Care" the most important reform is to have it divided into two sections - "Pastoral care of Religious origin" and "Pastoral care of secular origin" or similar. A useful source in this respect is https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11089-018-0826-0#:~:text=Pastoral%20caregivers%20who%20work%20in,by%20the%20term%20'spiritual%20care. The article in its present state also sits awkwardly with another entry: Non-Religious Pastoral Support Network The present entry is not apt for editing, it requires a complete rewrite to be relevant and informative. DJK1098S (talk) 20:19, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Division between religion-based and secular pastoral care insufficiently addressed