Talk:Murder of Imette St. Guillen

message: . . . to fix the link to the Falls. Right now it goes to a 1980 movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.0.58.18 (talk • contribs) 
Although this is a late reply, anyone reading the Imette St. Guillen page completely will read that The Falls bar is closed; replaced by the Midnight Cafe at the same location. There is no need to create a Wikipedia listing for The Falls.--MurderWatcher1 21:13, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I don't know how 

message: Can anybody explain why the St. Guillen family is suing the state and federal authorities? MK2 08:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lawsuit

message: Can anyone explain why in all those news reports not once was it mentioned that Imette St. Guillen was Hispanic? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.103.196 (talk • contribs) 04:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hispanic 

message: I'm moving to the talk page because unless they add something to the article that the multiple english references don't they don't really belong on there and would be better off on a spanish language article on Imette St. Guillen.
*10 al 16 de marzo del 2006 •Vol 20, #10
*Los secretos pueden ser asesinos LIBROS - 06/17/2007 Julio Paredes/EDLP
*Un años despuésde tragedia LOCALES - 02/26/2007
*  Policía y prensa se acusan de racistas; Caso en Nueva York provoca debate
--ImmortalGoddezz 14:43, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Spanish references

message: To Immortal Godezz.  In regards to Nightlife Legislation being a separate topic, I had some second thoughts. I am concerned about it being a separate topic because it might detract from Imette's Wiki reference and some people 'speed reading' through her story might not understand the significance and impact of her death on New York Nightlife.  Also, if it's separated, it should read "New York City Nightlife Legislation" as, other nightlife issues may crop up in other cities.--MurderWatcher1 19:15, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nightlife legislation

message: This was in the New York Post, Saturday, Sept. 8, 2007:
New York Post, Saturday, September 8, 2007
Website:  http://www.nypost.com/seven/09082007/news/regionalnews/barkeep_slapped_on_the_hand.htm
BARKEEP SLAPPED ON THE 'HAND' 
By LAURA ITALIANO 
September 8, 2007 -- Barkeep James Dorrian got a no-jail break and a scolding at his sentencing yesterday for literally throwing a complaining customer out of his family's flagship Upper East Side bar. 
"You'd better remember the day you made your mother cry," Manhattan Criminal Court Judge Neil Ross told Dorrian as his mom, dad, sister and uncle sobbed, apparently relieved he wouldn't be carted off to jail. 
Dorrian, 31, was crying himself. He'd faced up to a year behind bars for his misdemeanor May 2006 attack on a drunken film editor at Dorrian's Red Hand on Second Avenue. 
Instead, he got three years of probation, 10 days of community service and anger-management counseling.
 — Preceding unsigned comment added by MurderWatcher1 (talk • contribs) 21:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Dorrian-Related News 

message: Someone added a link to the band, Interpol, and their new song "Pioneer to the Falls". I just listened to the lyrics but I'll need more information for that to stay on the page. The song could refer, from its lyrics, to almost anything. Here's a website to listen to the song for anyone interested:
* http://www.myspace.com/interpol
Thank you for your help.--MurderWatcher1 19:43, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Song: "Pioneer to the Falls 

message: This doesn't deserve it's own section because it's only been referred to in one newspaper; perhaps if it had been picked up by more then one and it had been pinned to the murder as his moniker then it would deserve it's own section, however it only merits a small mention in the article itself. Also stop using blockquotes; they're unnecessary. Rewrite the information yourself and cite it. Blockquotes, the way they're being used here, just add a lot of unnecessary or repetitive information to the article. What is left when you take away the non-necessary or repeated information is a sentence or two at most that can be rewritten and cited. --ImmortalGoddezz 16:54, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mummy Maniac

message: This article, which is more opinion than fact (and someone might call this a blog but it isn't) appeared in:
"The Evening Sun"
Chenango County's Hometown Daily
Website:  http://www.evesun.com/news/stories/2007-12-20/3341/Knock-Out-Drops/
Knock Out Drops
By: Shelly Reuben, Columnist 
Published: December 20th, 2007
If this article saves one person's life, then it's worth it!--MurderWatcher1 (talk) 15:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wise Advice to other young women

message: The Villager
Volume 77 / Number 37 - Feb. 13 - 19, 2008
West and East Village, Chelsea, Soho, Noho, Little Italy, Chinatown and Lower East Side, Since 1933
Website:  http://www.thevillager.com/villager_250/scoopysnotebook.html
Scoopy's Notebook
Wrecking peace and quiet: Word from Sean Sweeney, the Soho Alliance’s director, is that sleepy Sullivan St. is being plagued by noise from an illegal nightclub being operated in a building owned by John Zaccaro, Geraldine Ferraro’s husband. The club is on the ground floor of a residential building, 73-75 Sullivan St., replacing a ravioli shop that was a neighborhood favorite. By day it’s a funky boutique, the Wreck Center, but by night it’s hosting a series of invite-only book signings, launch parties, art and music shows, even stand-up comedy, according to The New York Times. Sweeney pointedly noted that another Zaccaro tenant was The Falls on Lafayette St., a bouncer from which, Darryl Littlejohn, is accused of killing patron Imette St. Guillen, who was last seen alive at the notorious bar. At least the Wreck Center will be gone by month’s end, when the building is torn down for new construction, the Times reports.
--MurderWatcher1 (talk) 23:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible Blog so I'll put it here - Interesting

message: I have trimmed this since this need not be a link farm. This is not vandalism. --70.109.223.188 (talk) 12:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: See also section

message: :Any additional comments:
*Comment as far as I know there is really no clearly defined consensus for renaming pages of murder victims. Renaming has been brought up previously in regards to these specific articles, see Wikipedia talk:Notability (people)/Archive_7#Crime.2Fmurder victims and criminals. --ImmortalGoddezz (t/c) 19:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a note to everyone: Notability (criminal acts) isn't any kind of guideline, let alone a policy — it's a unilateral proposal by Fritzpoll. As ImmortalGoddezz rightly says, this debate has been - er - heated in the past; see Articles for deletion/Ramona Moore and the almighty amount of sound-and-fury here (the entries on Ramona Moore, Chanel Petro-Nixon and Justine Ezarik) for more on the matter. —  iridescent 17:48, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good contribution... I've copied it to Talk:Chanel Petro-Nixon#Similar moves, hope that's OK. Andrewa (talk) 19:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: I've not contributed for a while because of the arrogance and apparent "politcal correctness" that I see evidenced on this web encyclopedia. In disagreeing with another editor who acccused me of "WP:OWN" or whatever, my response is "It was a question of revisionism, never "WP:OWN" so this person simply can't reason or think outside of Wikipedia.  Nevertheless, unlike some other people, I have paid great attention to this case. Some people reading this link I've put in below will say, stupidly, "this is a blog" but CHECK IT OUT FIRST BEFORE COMPLAINING WITH YOUR DAMN "WP"-THIS-AND-THAT RULES!  When you read the letter from Joyce B. David to Judge Pfau (and I'm assuming that this isn't a phoney letter) then you'll see that, unfortunately, either way, there are strong forces involved in this murder.
http://www.crimesceneblog.com/docs/stguillen_imette/littlejohn%20letter%20to%20pfau.html
Now if this gets deleted, it will be deleted by a "politically correct" idiot, or worse, by the people mentioned in this letter. For those of you with discernment, you be the judge!--MurderWatcher1 (talk) 16:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: THE IMPORTANCE AND RAMIFICATIONS OF THE ST. GUILLEN MURDER

message: This section shouldn't be here, full stop. Two reasons:
1) its irrelevant.
2) It sounds like an advert. (The bar has changed its name to the 'R' Bar and is still doing business)
Its a needless piece of information, correct me if I am wrong.--McNoddy (talk) 09:09, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I want it in here so that this bar isn't blamed in any way for what happened to St. Guillen. In the initial reports, this bar was wrongly associated with her death. It's The Falls that should be blamed for hiring two felon bouncers and the bartender lied to police for 5 days on St. Guillen's whereabouts, etc. Anything about The Falls bar should also stay in as, the manager of this bar now works at Dorrian's Red Hand and he should also be charged in St. Guillen's murder. Read Joyce B. David's letter which is linked on this page.--MurderWatcher1 (talk) 20:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Pioneer bar 

message: I'm pleased that the latest news reports are starting to mention the bartender's role in this tragic story and how he lied repeatedly to police. The so-called homeless people outside of The Falls cannot be trusted for any of their testimony because they may have been coached in their statements. As one who was in this bar 10 days after St. Guillen was murdered (and I debated the morality of that action with myself long and hard) I can inform everyone who takes this case seriously of one thing: that the bar was like a "spiritual black hole". It had a Miasma in it (look that word up). I've experienced these things before. This evil bar deserved to be closed, and I hope that his others establishments are closed as well.
As I predicted above, here is the focus on Dorrian and his family. The Bible speaks clearly about what happens to murderers after death so check out my page. Understand how Dorrian is probably thinkng right now. He's thinking that he can go to confession and that God will forgive him in there; but the confession booth is a catholic invention! It's NOT in the Bible and no one who goes in there is ever forgiven unless they come personally to Jesus Christ.  There has been no change in human behavior since the beginning as recorded in the Bible. Cain lied to God about killing his brother, Abel -- this in the second generation of humankind alone! Pilate sought to have Jesus released -- but the people chose a murderer - Barabbas! Picking favorites and excusing murderers! This is what St. Guillen's case is unfortunately about.  I'll always remember what this girl said to her ex-boyfriend, Ryan Kocher -- "I want to love."  Only those who hate can abhor the poor girl who is now lost to all of us instead of this useless bartender and his family.  Unless they repent, they will forever be cursed.--MurderWatcher1 (talk) 21:55, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The focus of St. Guillen's Murder is finally coming onto the Bartender

message: If you're reading this article, then you will notice a new term being used, "nerd defense".  I've done searches on Wikipedia using the following terms: Nerd Defense, Attorney Tactics, legal tactics, Lawyer Tactics, Defense Tactics; and also searched Wikipedia pages for possible mentions going on to the following pages: "Lawyer", "Criminal defense lawyer", "Public defender", but nothing has come up except an automated prompt saying that I can create the page reference.  Rather than go through the trouble of creating something that will simply be deleted, I'll simply provide these websites in my online searches using Google, where I've seen the term come up. The first weblink is already used in this article on St. Guillen:
* http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/02/13/2011-02-13_they_were_framed_well_with_these_specs_they_coulda_looked_like_they_were_innocen.html
(The above is already in this article on St. Guillen)
* http://keenetrial.com/blog/2011/03/09/simple-jury-persuasion-using-the-nerd-defense/
* http://ethicsalarms.com/2011/02/21/the-perplexing-nerd-defense/
* http://sogweb.sog.unc.edu/blogs/ncclaw/?tag=nerd-defense
* http://www.statecollegecriminaldefenselawyers.com/2011/02/nerd-defense-may-contribute-to-acquittals.shtml
* http://jpdefense.com/new-york-criminal-defense/2011/02/what-is-the-concept-of-“nerd-defense”/
* http://www.geekosystem.com/tag/nerd-defense/
* http://www.juryofyourfears.com/a-jury-of-your-fears/2011/02/the-dangers-of-a-nerd-defense.html
* http://keenetrial.com/blog/2011/03/07/the-glasses-create-a-kind-of-unspoken-nerd-defense/
* http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicagos-real-law-blog/2011/03/you-cant-convict-me-im-a-nerd.html
If no one takes the bait, then I'll consider creating the page myself.MurderWatcher1 (talk) 00:49, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Aside from the NY Daily News article, not a single one of the sites you've listed is usable as a Wikipedia source. Wikipedia is an aggregator of encyclopedic information, not a blog; unless you can find evidence that a topic meets Wikipedia's very specific criteria of independent, non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable sources—that generally (but not exclusively) means textbooks, peer-reviewed journals and non-fiction books by acknowledged experts—then the topic is inappropriate for coverage in Wikipedia; if the article (or any other article) is written, every statement made in the article needs to be cited to a reliable source (as defined by Wikipedia). If the article mentions or alludes to any living people, then it also must comply with all aspects of our policy on Biographies of living persons, including (among other things) the provisions that all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source, and that court transcripts are explicitly not permitted as sources on Wikipedia. – iridescent 01:33, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Anyone interested in creating a new Wikipedia page entry?

message: The article was assessed C-class, for lack of clarity on several points. First, the circumstances of the murder itself are unclear. Certainly, the details of the crime came out during the trial. Second, the wording in the trial section is often confusing. Names are brought up without introduction. Who is "the Japanese woman"? The article goes in-depth about the ramifications of the case, but it needs some work.Boneyard90 (talk) 14:46, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP:Death Assessment Commentary 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Murder of Imette St. Guillen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080420141908/http://www.nydailynews.com:80/news/2006/12/29/2006-12-29_close_clubs_to_under18s_sez_quinn.html to http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2006/12/29/2006-12-29_close_clubs_to_under18s_sez_quinn.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 09:08, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Murder of Imette St. Guillen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://news.bostonherald.com/stGuillenMurder/view.bg?articleid=131765
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130616115538/http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/1516.php to http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/1516.php
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/2585.php
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2006/12/29/2006-12-29_close_clubs_to_under18s_sez_quinn.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:12, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 15 external links on Murder of Imette St. Guillen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090126141028/http://spiritofimette.org/ to http://www.spiritofimette.org/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090924033703/http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2006/03/02/2006-03-02_cop_s_think_it_s_an_evil_str.html to http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2006/03/02/2006-03-02_cop_s_think_it_s_an_evil_str.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080416012845/http://gothamist.com/2006/11/19/fighting_to_be.php to http://gothamist.com/2006/11/19/fighting_to_be.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930163622/http://gothamist.com/2007/08/20/concerns_over_s.php to http://gothamist.com/2007/08/20/concerns_over_s.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929083632/http://www.nypost.com/seven/08202007/news/regionalnews/imette_trial_lull_puzzles__experts_regionalnews_larry_celona_and_dan_mangan.htm to http://www.nypost.com/seven/08202007/news/regionalnews/imette_trial_lull_puzzles__experts_regionalnews_larry_celona_and_dan_mangan.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090608213800/http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/99261/woman-testifies-in-her-former-kidnapper-s-murder-trial/Default.aspx to http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/99261/woman-testifies-in-her-former-kidnapper-s-murder-trial/Default.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090615061845/http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/99660/alleged-rape-victim-expected-to-testify-in-littlejohn-trial/Default.aspx to http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/99660/alleged-rape-victim-expected-to-testify-in-littlejohn-trial/Default.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090610023736/http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/99808/prosecution-rests-case-in-bouncer-murder-trial/Default.aspx to http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/99808/prosecution-rests-case-in-bouncer-murder-trial/Default.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080306062614/http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1071091 to http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1071091
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081013131513/http://www.uscourts.gov/misc/propretrial.html to http://www.uscourts.gov/misc/propretrial.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110326220822/http://www.dnainfo.com/20110325/greenwich-village-soho/family-of-college-student-murdered-soho-bar-settles-with-federal-government to http://www.dnainfo.com/20110325/greenwich-village-soho/family-of-college-student-murdered-soho-bar-settles-with-federal-government
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110414141126/http://www.nysra.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=168 to http://www.nysra.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=168
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080724144410/http://www.nypost.com/seven/04282008/gossip/pagesix/headline_ripper_108445.htm to http://www.nypost.com/seven/04282008/gossip/pagesix/headline_ripper_108445.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080417061702/http://interpolarchives.com/photos/displayimage.php?pos=-4098%2F to http://interpolarchives.com/photos/displayimage.php?pos=-4098%2F
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090126141028/http://spiritofimette.org/ to http://www.spiritofimette.org/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:25, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Murder of Imette St. Guillen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071216021820/http://ny.metro.us/metro/local/article/St_Guillen_case_a_frame/11109.html to http://ny.metro.us/metro/local/article/St_Guillen_case_a_frame/11109.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090116215229/http://raptureready.com/nm/86.html to http://www.raptureready.com/nm/86.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110724023247/http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-imettes-law-060309,0,6681152.story to http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-imettes-law-060309,0,6681152.story
*Added  tag to http://articles.nydailynews.com/2008-02-24/news/17890927_1_john-jay-college-young-women-criminal-justice
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:08, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018)