Talk:Channichthyidae

message: There is no indication of scale in the image or the article. I can't tell if this fish is a centimeter long or a 10 meters long. Vicarious 06:03, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  size? 

message: Article states the blood contains less than 10% hemoglobin and then later it says it contains none at all. JMcC (talk) 23:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconsistent

message: I don't think this is the best image for this article. First, it's a photo of a larvae, not an adult, and the species isn't identified (Does anyone know what species this is? I can't tell). This photo ends up being used a lot in other articles on the icefish, and I assume that that's because it's on here. But it isn't a great representation of what icefish actually look like.  Ambiederman (talk) 16:06, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: The article states that "about 25 species of crocodile icefish are currently recognized." However, to my knowledge there are only 16 recognized species. 
This was referenced in Sidell, Bruce D; Kristin M O'Brien (2006-05-15). "When Bad Things Happen to Good Fish: The Loss of Hemoglobin and Myoglobin Expression in Antarctic Icefishes". Journal of Experimental Biology 209 (10): 1791–1802. doi:10.1242/jeb.02091. ISSN 0022-0949. . Retrieved 2015-10-15. - does anyone know of a more up-to-date source?
The 16 species is also consistent with the statement that 10 species of icefishes have myoglobin in the ventricle (We know there are 6 species of icefishes that lack myoglobin) Ambiederman (talk) 16:42, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of species 

message: I don't think there's a body of water called the "Antarctic Sea." I think it should be revised to say the "Southern Ocean." This source puts the range at -1.8 to +2.0 degrees Celsius. Clarke, A (1990). "Temperature and evolution: Southern Ocean cooling and the Antarctic marine fauna". Antarctic Ecosystems: 9-22. doi:10.1007/978-3-642-84074-6_2. Retrieved 2015-10-15.  Ambiederman (talk) 19:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antarctic Sea 

message: I think the statement on diet should include a reference. This review articleLa Mesa, Mario; Joseph T. Eastman; Vacchi Marino (2004). "The role of notothenioid fish in the food web of the Ross Sea shelf waters: a review." Polar Biology 27:321-338. Retrieved 2015-10-15 examines the feeding behavior of several icefish species. They found that all the icefishes were piscivorous, and several ate krill as well. None of the species studied ate copepods - does anyone have a source on icefish eating copepods? It also might be worth better explaining the eating habits of these species, as was outlined in this review. Because these fish are not particularly active, they can survive on long periods in between feedings, and many species can consume other fishes up to 50% of their own body length. Ambiederman (talk) 19:30, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diet 

message: Does anyone know where we can find a reference on the final adult body length (25-75 cm)?
The closest comprehensive study and/or review I could find was this.Artigues, Bernat; Beatriz Morales-Nin; Eduardo Bulguerias (2003). "Fish length-weight relationships in the Weddell Sea and Bransfield Strait." Polar Biology 26: 463-467.DOI 10.1007/s00300-003-0505-0. Retrieved 2015-10-15.  The authors don't actually state if they were measuring only adults in this study (although the discussion indicates to me that they were not). Still, perhaps the maximum length data from this study could be used as an indicator of maximum adult body length? Their results indicated that the different species' maximum size ranged from about 22-50 cm (They studied 11 species, so this isn't totally comprehensive).
For what it's worth, I just looked through my field data and found that our specimens (all adults) fell within the following ranges:
Chaenocephalus aceratus: 35-80 cm; Pseudochaenichthys georgianus: 45-55 cm; Chionodraco rastrospinosus: 25-40 cm; Champsocephalus gunnari: 35-50 cm  Ambiederman (talk) 01:35, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Body length 

message: ThisHoleton, George F. (1970). "Oxygen uptake and circulation by a hemoglobinless Antarctic fish (Chaenocephalus aceratus Lonnberg) compared with three red-blooded Antarctic fish." Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology 34: 457-471. Retrieved 2015-10-15. seems like it was the earliest study on comparisons of oxygen content between white-blooded and red-blooded notothenioids, and it's been cited in other articles that mention this trait. I think it would be good to add the reference to this article. Ambiederman (talk) 02:24, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oxygen-carrying capacity 

message: The article states "Channichthyidae are the only known vertebrates without hemoglobin." However, almost all the literature states that icefish are the only known vertebrates to lack hemoglobin as adults. I can't actually find a source, however, on any other species that lack hemoglobin during development, but my instinct says that this article should probably add the "as adults" statement since it seems to be the consensus among biologists in the field. Does anyone know of any literature that directly addresses this? Ambiederman (talk) 03:15, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adult vertebrates 

message: Article states that Hb is "an oxygen transport protein in the blood." I think this should be changed to "the oxygen transport protein in the blood" since there aren't any other proteins that perform this function in the blood. This way, the critical importance of Hb (in most vertebrates) is emphasized. Ambiederman (talk) 03:17, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hemoglobin as oxygen transporter 

message: The article states: "Almost all of the alpha and beta subunit genes have been lost..." This statement could be more precise. The beta subunit gene has been completely deleted, and the alpha subunit gene has been partially deleted.Cocca, E.; M. Ratnayake-Lecamwasam, S.K. Parker; L. Camardella; M. Ciaramella; G. diPrisco; H.W. Detrich (1997). "Do the hemoglobinless icefishes have globin genes?" Comp. Biochem. Physiol. 118A: 1027-1030. Retrieved 2015-10-15. Ambiederman (talk) 03:28, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alpha/beta subunit genes 

message: The section on Mb currently reads, "Myoglobin has been lost[clarification needed] in icefish heart ventricles at least four separate times and by four different mechanisms.[2]"
I think we need to clarify that the loss of Mb in these species is regulated through gene expression, rather than an actual gene deletion. This is also a problem in the "Evolution" section, which states that these species "(lost) their myoglobin genes by a similar process." They didn't actually lose their genes, and it wasn't really a similar process. ThisGrove, T.J.; J.W. Hendrickson; and B.D. Sidell (2004). "Two species of Antarctic icefishes (Genus Champsocephalus) share a common genetic lesion leading to the loss of myoglobin expression." Polar Biology 27: 579- 585. is a great source on Mb expression. Ambiederman (talk) 03:51, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source of myoglobin loss 

message: The word "supposed" is used twice in this article: "In the past, their scaleless skin had been widely supposed to help absorb oxygen." and "The loss of hemoglobin was initially supposed to be an adaptation to the extreme cold."
The second sentence confused me a bit at first, because suppose has two different meanings: "supposed to" could mean "thought to" or it could mean "meant to." (indicating that something is necessary). In both cases in this article, the word is used with the first definition. Personally, I read the second sentence using the second definition - and I was confused, because we know the loss of Hb isn't really an adaptation in the traditional sense. 
Maybe this is just a stylistic difference, and if I'm in the minority then it shouldn't be changed. But I think these sentences are clearer:
"In the past, it was widely believed that their scaleless skin enhanced oxygen absorption." 
"The loss of hemoglobin was initially thought to be an adaptation to the extreme cold." Ambiederman (talk) 04:08, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Word choice 

message: one suggestion I would make would be to add more relevant images. For example, a picture of the enlarged hearts in comparison to a fish's heart that contains hemoglobin and myoglobin Jalashiareliford (talk) 03:17, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  images 

message: is this related
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/13/world/icefish-colony-discovery-scn/index.html  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.149.83.125 (talk) 15:55, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  nesting icefish