Talk:Turkish alphabet

message: If you can trace the original of the well-known anecdote about Atatürk & Falih Rıfkı Atay, I suggest you include it to make this article even more enjoyable. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atatürk Q harfini sevmezdi  

message: It should be mentioned that the letter G, K and L in Turkish can each have two sounds. Examples are the words 'kâğıt' and 'kalem', 'gâvur' and 'gazel', lâle and lala.  The presence of a circumflex sign on the vowel following the G, K or L indicates whether the consonant is to be palatalized.  Also, words of Arabic or Persian origin may have the vowels a, u and i lengthened if they carry a circumflex sign.  When a noun is converted to an adjective by the addition of an i at the end, it is written with a circumflex to distinguish it from the accusative case: e.g., askerî (military) vs. askeri (the soldier).  It would be good if the IPA symbols for these variants were shown in the table.  
The Turkish Language Association (Türk Dil Kurumu) prescribes these rules in its spelling guide . However, there is a tendency among many Turkish writers to view the use of the circumflex as optional, except for resolving ambiguous words (e.g., 'hala' (aunt) vs 'hâlâ' (still, yet)).  This practice makes the language less phonetic, and sometimes a non-native speaker just has to know what the correct pronunciation is.  --InfoCan 19:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  palatalized G, K and L; long a, u, and i 

message: In the table it says that the Turkish letter 'a' corresponds with the IPA-sign 'a' which is an open front unrounded vowel but the English approximation features an open-mid back unrounded vowel as in fun or but. The exact vowel isn't used in the English language but comes very close to a near-open front unrounded vowel as in words like bat, cat, fat ...
--
Comment to the above comment: I have friends that pronounce the Turkish letter A as [ɑ] (the a in father), not as [ʌ].  This leaves me wondering if the latter pronunciation is just İstanbul dialect, until Omniglot says that the letter A is pronounced as [ɑ], which was supposedly also true of Ottoman Turkish.  This pronunciation is also confirmed by listening to some Turkish music - for example, Derya Köroğlu, the lead singer in the band Yeni Türkü, who's originally from İstanbul, seems to pronounce A as [ɑ] and not [ʌ].  Now, I know that drawing interpretation from musicians is probably not the way to go, but that does leave me wondering a bit.  If no one objects, I can change that bit of the article.  --Daniel Blanchette (talk) 01:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkish letter 'a' 

message: There is no sound that sounds anything like /ɯ/ in English, so it is wrong to state that it sounds like nation, for 'nation' is pronounced /ˈneɪʃən/. The schwa is mid-central and somewhat rounded, while /ɯ/ is close-back and unrounded.
For this, I have removed the claim from the article.
Nay the snake 10:19, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  English approximation of <ı> 

message: This article states that "o" is pronounced as in the word "no", which is clearly a diphtong in english unless you're from Jamaica. Other sources on the internet compare it with the "o" in the word "ornament" or "orchestra". This corresponds better with the turkish I've heard. Can someone with proper insight verify which example is the more fitting? JoaCHIP 13:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 'o' sound 

message: This seriously confused me. Apparently only in certain dialects of English, and I so far haven't found on wikipedia any information as to which dialects, where. I guess most "standard" dialects just don't have any similar sounds to compare with? Tanketz 02:46, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "u" as in "nude"? 

message: The example word 'ladder' does contain /ɾ/ for many English speakers (see English_Language#Consonants), although it's not written with 'r'. Perhaps there should be a note about which English dialects are meant? Cibumamo (talk) 16:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  English example for /ɾ/ 

message: The well-known photograph of Atatürk teaching the new alphabet was taken in Kayseri, according to http://www.tccb.gov.tr/common/gallery/ataturk/photo_00040.jpg. However, the photograph found on http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ/kitaplar/FMD/eng/01024.htm is clearly taken on the same occasion or in any case at the same spot, but stated to be in Sivas, about 160 km northeast of Kayseri. Both sources are Turkish government sites; they cannot be both right. Does anyone know of a way to decide between the two spots? See also .  --Lambiam 22:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sivas or Kayseri? 

message: http://www.turkishclass.com/basic_alphabet.htm is getting 404 errors
Bahri Okuroglu (talk) 19:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  link for "Turkish alphabet and pronunciation guide" is broken 

message: I have a friend who speaks Turkish, and when he speaks "A" and "U" it sounds more like [a] and [u], not [ʌ] and [ʊ].  Are those latter pronunciations just the Istanbul dialect, or is there something that I'm not getting?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.223.57.216 (talk) 02:05, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phonology 

message: * There is "ü" in "music", "museum", "confuse" and "future"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.165.242.206 (talk) 16:36, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're French, yes.--92.75.194.36 (talk) 19:30, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Letter Ü 

message: The article has interesting information on the provenance of most of the "accented" Turkish letters, but lacks anything historical at all on the most unique Turkish letter "Ğ /ğ". What was the reason for choosing the "inverted breve" diacritic for The Arabic letter غ? Was it in use for transcriptions of Arabic or Ottoman Turkish already or was it specifically invented from scratch? — Hippietrail (talk) 01:24, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You answered the question yourself: The symbol is used in some transcriptions of the Arabic alphabet, such as ISO 233-2.--92.75.194.36 (talk) 19:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, the scheme you are talking about was made in 1993 not prior Turkish alphabet. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 12:31, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ğ / ğ 

message: Sounds: examples must be short and clear! it says: "ç = As ch in chimpanzee" /why chimpanzee? chalk will be better!  bobblehead, dillydally, gargoyle, shenanigans, vivacious, internationality for "L" sound! Are you joking? Please find better examples! Who wrote them? Why shenanigans? You can easily say: "ş = As sh in she" Please change them! Böri (talk) 14:03, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sounds: wrong examples! 

message: Five years ago, at 22:55 on 4 August 2006, back when the article was a stub, an irrelevant passage was ignorantly inserted under the heading, "Trivia". It said that the novel Gravity's Rainbow contained a plot element about committees charged with developing a "New Turkish Alphabet". Very soon thereafter, the novel's author's name was added to the remark. Unfortunately, it would be a full year, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turkish_alphabet&oldid=152919976, before the crucial information was added that this plot element had to do with the Soviet Union, specifically with Soviet Central Asia, the area east of the Caspian Sea. Soviet Central Asia was of course never part of even the Ottoman Empire, let alone its successor state, modern Turkey. The plot element, which is in any case fictional, had NOTHING to do with the language of modern Turkey (or even with the language of the Ottoman Empire). The insertion of the passage was due to confusion over the terms "Turks" and "Turkish". In one sense of the word, the "larger" sense, the Turks are a group of ethnicities which, although they are distinct, see each other as sister peoples, calling each other "Turks"; plus, many of their languages are extremely similar to the point that there is a useful degree of mutual intelligibility. The reason for this situation is, of course, that the distinct peoples originate from a single language community calling itself "Turks". In fact, many of the distinct ethnicities arose less than a thousand years ago, which is recent in terms of ethnic evolution. In these respects, the "Turks" are exactly like the Slavs. "Turks" in this larger sense include Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Azerbaijanis, etc. In Western academic parlance, it is standard to use "Turkic" to indicate "Turks" in the "larger" sense. On the other hand, the Turks are unlike the Slavs in that among the multitude of "Turks" is one group that is known by no other name, this group of course being the Turks of Turkey. Now, it's a historical fact that the Russians in particular, especially before the 20th century, often referred to all the distinct Turkic nations as "Turks" regardless of whether they were Nogais (Nogays/Noghais/Noghays), "Crimean Tatars", Tatars, Ottoman Turks, Balkars, etc. Soviet Central Asia had three "union republics" dedicated to "Turk" ethnicities: Kazakh SSR (Soviet Socialist Republic), Uzbek SSR, and Kirghiz SSR. The scene in Pynchon's novel would have pertained to these Turkic SSR's. For that reason above all, but also because it's a piece of fiction and an obscure piece, it has no place in this article. This is why I just deleted the section, "In popular culture", which contained nothing but a sentence alluding to a this scene from Gravity's Rainbow. Dale Chock (talk) 06:27, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of irrelevant content: citation of a scene from Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow. 

message: We should cover the difference between “inverted commas” and —dashes— as quotation marks.  — kwami (talk) 20:31, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Punctuation marks 

message: In Turkish alphabet#Early reform proposals: "If you see a circle at the end of a word it means that every other letter is silent". 78.0.218.49 (talk) 01:59, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is this supposed to mean? 

message: In the sample it states the following:
R	r	/ɾ/[2]	As tt in better
To me this makes absolutely no sense. The 'R' should have a sample containing this letter. The 'As tt in better' has no relevance to this letter at all.
A better suggestion should be proposed, such as 'As R in Roving (rolling r)'  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hveene (talk • contribs) 11:10, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: In American English, the 'tt' in better is pronounced as an alveolar flap. This is a close approximation to the rhotics (the r consonant) in a number of languages. — Æµ§œš¹ [lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt] 04:05, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prononciation sample for letter R 

message: it'll be so nice if we replace C c /dʒ/ with (dotless) J ȷ and replace Y y /j/ with (breve) J̆  j̆ . then we get rid of I ı /ɯ/ with showing it with Y y while merging (all loan) J j /ʒ/ with previous C c. in Azeri (acute) É é /e:/ excludes Ə ə /æ/ (allophone of turkish E e /ɛ/) while (cedilla) Ķ ķ /x/ replaces X x. the Q q is fully covered by G g /g/. [because TR: k /q/ and AZ: g /ɢ/ are allophonic too]. if summarize: replacing [ I ı ] and [ Ç ç ] by [ J̆  j̆  ] and [ Ķ ķ ], respectively. while killing dots in ( İ j ). see what happens:
  
for a Qwerty keyboard [TuR-glish], also these shortcuts are available: eh/e:/, jh/ʒ/, gh/ɣ/, x/ʃ/, q/x/ (where qh/q/ )
 Tabascofernandez (talk) 20:56, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  A talk 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "Approximately gh in "taught"".  Are you guys aware that the "gh" in "taught" is always silent in all standard varieties of English? 77.73.168.99 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 17:17, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been changed to "through", with exactly the same mysterious logic. Pirate pete (talk) 14:11, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Taught

message: A word-final r, as in bir, is pronounced more like a fricative than as a tap, at least in Istanbul and Ankara. (Perhaps this applies to any coda – which then is just the single consonant r, never a cluster.) You can think of it as a halfway aborted tap, closing but not opening again. I'm not sure how to denote that in IPA. Perhaps  with the "unreleased stop" diacritic?  --Lambiam 09:30, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Word-final ''r'' 

message: I would move the page to 'Turkish Latin alphabet' or something along these lines. Throughout history the Turkish language was written using several alphabets. Therefore I think calling this page 'Turkish alphabet' is confusing, especially when there's another page about the Ottoman Turkish alphabet SpecialKaenguruH (talk) 10:34, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkish Latin Alphabet?  

message: The inflection table of wikt:İstanbul includes an apostrophe, but no mention of it is made in this article. What does it mean? Rua (mew) 10:44, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The apostrophe seems to be used when declining any proper name. Burzuchius (talk) 13:45, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apostrophe? 

message: The table shows "i" is pronounced as /i/ in the IPA, which corresponds to the i in fit, but this makes no sense. Fit is pronounced /fɪt/ in English while /i/ in the IPA marks a close front ungrounded vowel as in "see" /si/, so how is "i" pronounced in Turkish? /i/ or /ɪ/? SanctaSofya (talk) 20:44, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of /i/ 

message: In the image containing the alphabet for Turkish, uppercase dotless I is incorrectly paired with lowercase dotted i. Instead it should be paired with lowercase dotless ı. The faulty image is linked here:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Turkish_alphabet.svg Jjamison (talk) 22:02, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lowercase l is incorrectly listed as i 

message: Shouldn't the dotless ı be represented by /ə/ rather than /ɯː/? It sounds like "e" in "the". 2A02:1811:D42E:B900:5909:D861:EBC9:3856 (talk) 04:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of dotless ı 

message: Unfortunately, the lie is written on the page that only Agop martayan invented the Turkish alphabet, not according to the 1928 Turkish Alphabet commission work records, but by showing the unofficial books that were written after 2000 and do not provide any source. Even a column written in Turkish was taken as a reference for this false information "İrfan Özfatura: "Dilimizi dilim dilim... Agop Dilâçar" (Turkish), Türkiye Gazetesi, April 3, 2011. Retrieved February 15, 2012" The funny thing is, it doesn't say "Agop Martayan invented the Turkish alphabet" in this column. Although it was never mentioned, the lie "and the linguistic team which invented the modern Turkish alphabet included several Armenian linguists, such as Agop Dilâçar." was added to the page with reference to this column. I directly sent you the article written by Agop Martaya on 9 August 1958 in the Turkish Language Institution about the new Turkish alphabet. Türk Dili Dil ve Edebiyat Dergisi, Dilâçar, A. Alfabemizin 30. Yıldönümü, Ağustos 1958, C: VII, S: 83, s. 534-541 Where did Agop Martayan write "I invented the Turkish alphabet"? Canuur (talk) 22:05, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is the correct information not written according to historical documents?