Talk:United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change

message: If I remember right the Kyoto Protocol expires at the end of this year but the UNFCCC continues. The lead says that the convention "requires individual participating countries to commit to stabilizing greenhouse gas emissions". I assume "stabilize" means "stop increasing" but where in the article does it say what "requires" actually means? Is there any enforcement mechanism or even an official list of countries which have not committed? What can we do if a party does not commit to that? I mean countries which have not ratified the Paris Agreement but continue in the UNFCCC. Chidgk1 (talk) 19:20, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The weak point of Kyoto is that it has no enforcement mechanism. However under international law (the dogma "pacta sunt servanda") those requirements are treaty obligations and thus should be fulfilled, regardless of the presence of an enforcement mechanism in the treaty. In many countries non-fullfilment of treaty obligations can be challenged in court. The only place where national implementation was succesfully challenged in court was -as far as I know- in the Netherlands (see here). L.tak (talk) 21:52, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for explaining. So if I understand right the Dutch judgement is based on an ECHR ruling? So does that still count as an ECHR precedent for other ECHR countries after Kyoto expires at the end of 2020? Chidgk1 (talk) 12:34, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It is based on established ECHR case law, but it is not based on specific ECHR rulings. So it would be a stretch to conclude that other European courts should come to the same conclusion; it is only an indication that other courts may take the same mode of reasoning, and that this specific subject at some point may end up at ECHR at some point... L.tak (talk) 14:04, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  What exactly does "require" mean in the lead? 

message: Has anyone thought yet about linking this article to Sustainable Development Goal 13 (SDG 13)? I think SDG 13 should be mentioned because Target 13.a is about countries joining the UNFCCC and funding arrangements. Just not sure yet where exactly in the article.EMsmile (talk) 14:10, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now added that link in the section about the Green Climate Fund. This could be improved and fine tuned further. EMsmile (talk) 22:12, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Link to article on [[Sustainable Development Goal 13]]

message: The intro made this misleading claim: The UNFCCC "…was superseded by the Paris Agreement…" Actually, the Paris Agreement, which is not a treaty, was written under the enforcement provisions of the UNFCCC. The article on the Paris Agreement makes this clear. To clarify this, I changed it to "…gives authority to the Paris Agreement…" I'm not sure if that's the best way to put it, as I'm not well versed in international law. If anyone has a better way to describe the relationship between them, please clarify this further. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It was the Kyoto Protocol that -in a sense- was superseded. I made some specifications (under international law it is debatable whether this is a treaty or not, but under US treaty law it is not considered a treaty); feel free to tweak... L.tak (talk) 22:26, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi L.tak: that's interesting. Can we add something about that to the article? Do you have a suitable source handy? Even if not, I think it should be explained (with "citation needed" tag to be added if necessary). EMsmile (talk) 15:41, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Superceded? 

message: Would it be correct to say that the only current requirement on Annex 1 countries under the UNFCCC (not Kyoto or the Paris Agreement) is to submit annual reports? If not what other obligation is there currently (as opposed to when the convention was originally signed)? Chidgk1 (talk) 09:40, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Chidgk1, has this question been answered in the meantime? If not then in which section of the article does the clarification need to be added? EMsmile (talk) 15:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current obligations of Annex 1 countries? 

message: I've re-arranged the structure a bit. I felt there were too many Level-1 headings. Also, I'd prefer the use of more standard headings - things like "structure", "tasks", "finances", "challenges", "history" and alike. I've made some changes in that direction but more could be done. Compare also with the structure of the IPCC article which is a bit better.  EMsmile (talk) 12:16, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just done some more of that re-arranging work that I talked about nearly two years ago. Comments welcome. EMsmile (talk) 15:38, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  For what it's worth, this is what Chat-GPT gave me when I asked it for a suitable structure for a Wikipedia article on the UNFCCC (pretty good suggestions):
 Introduction
* Brief overview of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC).
* Establishment and background information.
 Objectives and Goals
* Explanation of the main goals and objectives of the UNFCCC.
* Emphasis on addressing climate change, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and promoting sustainable development.
 History
* Historical context and events leading to the creation of the UNFCCC in 1992.
* Key milestones, conferences, and developments in the history of the convention.
 Principles and Framework
* Overview of the guiding principles and fundamental framework of the UNFCCC.
* Discussion of key concepts such as common but differentiated responsibilities (CBDR) and the precautionary principle.
 Key Agreements and Protocols
* Description of major agreements negotiated within the UNFCCC framework, such as the Kyoto Protocol and the Paris Agreement.
* Explanation of the commitments and targets set by member countries.
 Membership and Participation
* Information on the countries participating in the UNFCCC.
* Overview of the decision-making processes and involvement of various stakeholders.
 Achievements and Challenges
* Discussion of notable achievements and successes resulting from UNFCCC initiatives.
* Recognition of ongoing challenges and areas where progress is needed.
 Criticisms and Controversies
* Examination of criticisms and controversies surrounding the UNFCCC.
* Analysis of debates and differing perspectives on the effectiveness of the convention.
 Role in International Climate Action
* Exploration of the UNFCCC's role in shaping global climate policies.
* Collaboration with other international organizations and initiatives.
 Future Prospects
* Consideration of the future direction of the UNFCCC.
* Potential developments and challenges in the context of evolving climate change scenarios. EMsmile (talk) 22:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-arranged structure towards standard headings 

message: I plan to review the lead for readability and edit accordingly. Any objections? Jonathanlynn (talk) 13:36, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've continued the work on readability improvements for the lead. I have also cut it back to around 500 words, as it had ballooned out a bit in length to nearly 700 words. EMsmile (talk) 12:21, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Readability improvements of the lead 

message: I wonder if the content that is in the section called "Analysis" is well sourced or if it contains a bit of WP:OR or WP:SYNTH? It was added or modified in around 2014 by User:Enescot, e.g. in this edit here. EMsmile (talk) 22:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the content under "Analysis" well sourced? 

message: I asked Chat-GPT "what are the things that people don't like about the UNFCCC?". The answer by Chat-GPT as copied below could be used as some inspiration on how to improve the section on controversies/challenges (or course we would need reliable sources for each statement):
 +++++++++++
Criticism of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and related processes comes from various perspectives. Here are some common points of criticism:
 Effectiveness and Ambition:
* Critics argue that the commitments made by countries under the UNFCCC, including those in agreements like the Kyoto 
* Protocol and the Paris Agreement, are not ambitious enough to effectively address the scale of the climate crisis.
 Inequality and Historical Responsibility:
*There is a debate about the principle of "common but differentiated responsibilities," which acknowledges historical emissions by developed countries. Some argue that the burden of addressing climate change should fall more heavily on historically high emitters.
 Lack of Enforcement Mechanisms:
*The UNFCCC relies on voluntary commitments, and there are no strong enforcement mechanisms to ensure that countries meet their emission reduction targets. Some critics argue that this lack of enforcement undermines the effectiveness of the agreements.
 Corporate Influence:
*Critics contend that corporate interests and lobbying can influence the negotiation process, potentially diluting the strength of climate agreements.
 Slow Decision-Making Process:
*The UNFCCC operates on a consensus-based decision-making process, which can be slow and challenging when there are diverse interests among member countries.
 Insufficient Financial Support:
*Developing countries often criticize the lack of adequate financial support from developed countries to help them adapt to climate change and transition to cleaner technologies.
 Exclusion of Certain Stakeholders:
*Some argue that the UNFCCC decision-making process does not always adequately include the perspectives of indigenous peoples, local communities, and other marginalized groups who are disproportionately affected by climate change.
 
 Focus on Market Mechanisms:
* Critics express concerns about the reliance on market-based mechanisms, such as carbon trading, which may not lead to significant emissions reductions and could allow some countries or industries to avoid making substantial changes.
 Failure to Meet Previous Targets:
* Skeptics point out that some countries have not met their previous emission reduction targets, raising doubts about the ability of the UNFCCC process to drive meaningful change.
EMsmile (talk) 22:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions for section on controversies