Talk:Doughnut/Archive 1

message: I have my own theory about the hole.  I am originally from Belgium.  In Belgium, what we commonly call "Beignets" are made with a slice of apple, cored (leaving a flat disc of apple with a round hole in the middle), dipped in batter, and deep fried.  Because the apple slice is cored, and because we use a rising batter (traditionally using beer as a leavening agent), the end result has exactly the same shape as an American donut (but, I would argue is much better...).  I am always shocked to find that no one ever refers to this as a possible origin for the shape of the donut... seems pretty obvious to me.
Eric Ponslet
Deleted a little bit in the Origins section, since it adds nothing and is not encyclopedia quality:
"Or maybe, some random person dropped dough into the the frier,and had to get it out by puncturing the middle of that ball of dough. Therefore, this created the "signature"
hole in the doughnut." 83.70.163.196 19:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of hole in Doughnuts 

message: There are many references on the web (possibly all repetitions of a single reference) to 'chichis' as being a type of Spanish doughnut (in direct comparison/cunjuction with porras and bunelos).
The only chichis recipes I have found that are not cocktail recipes, are for sweet 'chewy fruit balls' which don't seem to involve frying, so can't really be doughnuts (unless we invent the new category of unfried doughnuts, not quite as unconventional as it sounds, when you consider the well established 'cookie dough ice-cream' where the dough wasn't intended to be used to make cookies!
:I live in France, and Chichis are a staple of carnival fair food here, and they are definitely made from deep fried batter. Kind of beignet in the French mind, though I'm not sure what the relationship is between the doughnut and the French beignet. --Svartalf 03:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chichis - unfried donuts? 

message: Kennedy was actually correct: by saying 'I am a "Berliner"' he expressed his emotional affinity to post-war Berlin. This is correct German and hits the point. The way he said it, it meant that he is true son of the city.
If he would have said 'I am "Berliner"', it would have meant that he is simply living there (which was of course not the case).
He was simply expressing his emotional attachment the people living in Berlin in the times of the cold war. He was very much appreciated for that at that time, and most of those who remeber his visit still do appreciate what he said as an act of solidarity. In fact, Kennedy was and is still one of the most popular US politicians over here here (which is definitly not the case with the piece of junk sitting in the white house over there right now!)
:Another urban myth bites the dust.  So, in German, are "I am emotionally attached to Berlin" and "I am a jam doughnut" identical in print? -- Heron
:A "Berliner" can also mean "Berliner Weisse", wheat beer with raspberry syrup - but in context, no one will confuse any of the three meanings. Henry Troup
:Same goes for 'I am a Frankfurter' (type of sausage), 'I am a Hamburger'. If you are from Limburg, you should watch out, though, since this is also a quite smelly cheese :-) --Guest
By saying "ein", he was referring to a singular noun, rather than the plural usage of Berliner, therefore this is an accurate translation rather than a mistranslation.  He actually said he was a doughnut, whether he meant it or not.  (155) 5 Aug 05.
:See Ich bin ein Berliner and its references for coverage of the topic.  -- Norvy (talk) 15:44, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  I am a Jelly Doughnut 

message: Will somebody explain just what kind of screwed up doughnut that's supposed to be in that image? It looks more like a chili dog in a sesame seed bun than any donut I've ever seen. -- Cyrius|✎ 19:02, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  WTH is the image? 

message: These are spelling variants of the same word, not synonyms, so this article should be consistent in which form it uses. Since the article's title is already "doughnut" (with "donut" redirecting here) I took the hard-like approach of replacing every occurrence of "donut" with "doughnut", except where the former occurred as part of a proper noun (as with "Dunkin' Donuts"), a quoted phrase, or a link.
I request that future editors of this article adopt this convention as well.
jmac 19:37, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prefer "doughnut" over "donut" 

message: Ring doughnuts are sometimes made by frying a ring of dough, so that there is no "hole" to be fried separately.  For instance, this is how Krispy Kreme makes them.  (If you haven't been to a Krispy Kreme to see their doughnut-making machine in operation, plan a trip!) --Brouhaha 21:31, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate production method for ring doughnut 

message: American president John F. Kennedy, during a 1963 visit to Berlin, famously declared "Ich bin ein Berliner" which means "I am a jelly doughnut."  He should have said "Ich bin Berliner" meaning "I am a citizen of Berlin." 
or
American president John F. Kennedy, during a 1963 visit to Berlin, famously declared "Ich bin ein Berliner" which can be mistranslated as "I am a jelly doughnut."  See Ich bin ein Berliner 
The Ich bin ein Berliner article states the jelly donut translation is wrong. I think the article should just state that the quote is often mis-translated and leave the rest up to the Ich bin ein Berliner article. If someone wants to know what should have been said or if what Kennedy said was actually correct they can visit the other article. commonbrick 21:22, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this really that relevant to the Doughnut article?  I'm not sure any mention of it is warranted.  -- Norvy (talk) 15:13, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

text: No. I've taken it out. commonbrick 19:57, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ich bin ein Berliner 

message: I believe, quite firmly, that the FAQ section is inappropriate for a number of reasons:  FAQ's should not be in an encyclopedia; the questions are not "typically asked"; the whole tone implies the reader is dim-witted; and some of the material is so inane it detracts from the rest of the article, which is long enough without it.  I would prefer to delete it all, but some of the material seems worth keeping, so I am going to change  stuff around.  If anyone has a problem with this, please discuss here.  --Mothperson 14:09, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The FAQ was started by two people arguing about the definition of a donut. I think "Variations and Specialties by Region" could also be eliminated too; it adds nothing to the article. The "Types" section is also pretty useless in my opinion. Maybe Types and Specialties could be merged into one article about donuts around the world so they don't clutter up the main article. commonbrick 16:27, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me.  You want to do it?  I'm afraid if I start, well...  I'll help.  Why don't you take out what you think is useless, and I'll come back later and do some work, too.  The thing was getting me down earlier.  I had just whacked out Fudge Puppies when I decided perhaps it was was time to leave before I got too crazy.  Thanks. --Mothperson 16:56, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I renamed types to regional variations, and really weeded out a lot of stuff that wasn't doughnut appropriate.  I changed fried dough foods to a see also, where they really belong (and a number already are).  I also removed the list of doughnut names in other countries as suggested above.  And I did a bunch of little changes.  -- Norvy (talk) 16:07, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Norvy. I was going to work on this article today since my classes are now over and I don't work tomorrow but I see you already cleaned the article up. Thanks again and you did a good job. commonbrick 21:47, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to add my public thanks as well.  You took my kudzu-covered challenge and cut through it all.  I am astonished and grateful. A virtual gold-plated weedwhacker with a doughnut handle to Norvy.  --Mothperson 18:40, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Severe pruning of FAQ section 

message: No need for needless and somewhat needling editorializing on the edit summary about removing a few caps.  If you'd seen this article before.  But thanks anyway for decapping.  --Mothperson 13:01, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lupin 

message: Just a thought re: the torus-shaped ring doughnut.
Look up torus, and what does it say? "Doughnut-shaped". Aren't we going round in rings here? Can we have just the ring doughnut? I think that conveys in itself the fact that it's ring-shaped... -- Picapica 20:49, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Man, the irony is so thick...--Planetary 05:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tora Tora Torus! 

message: The B&W "Doughnuts on display" is one of the least appetizing pictures I've ever seen. True, we're not trying to sell doughnuts here, and we have to be NPOV and all, but wouldn't a more lively picture convey the fascination with this pastry better?  The picture at the top is great; does someone have a non-copyrighted one showing some different types? OwenX 15:17, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doughnuts on display picture 

message: I should have noticed this before, but there was too much else going on in the article prior to the major pruning.  But where is the information coming from about the respective fat contents and weights of yeast-raised vs. cake doughnuts???  Something seems not right.  For one thing - the definition of the doughnuts being compared is completely lacking.  I started to edit, and then quit, because I don't know who was writing about what.  And isn't it sort of requisite to have the weights and temperatures in ounces and Fahrenheit as well as grams and Celsius, given the doughnut's origins? --Mothperson cocoon 20:44, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wait a minute 

message: What part of Germany does call Doughnut Bismarcks?--Hhielscher 18:01, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bismarcks?  

message: Can someone please explain the "donuts to dollars" saying?  Does anyone know how it got started?
:Since doughnuts cost much less than a dollar each, betting "dollars to doughnuts" means giving someone incredibly high odds on the bet, since whoever is making the offer is sure of his win. E.g., "I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that we'll never find a way to stop vandalism here."  Why specifically doughnuts?  I suspect it's the alliteration (repeating initial 'D'). Owen× ☎ 20:01, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Donuts to Dollars 

message: Has anyone ever given any thought to the idea that at one time the spelling might have been "Dough-naught" with the 'naught' referring to the 'zero' like shape the dough is formed in?  Is there any evidence to refute this or am I simply a genius for discovering this?
:I suppose it makes more sense than them being named after nuts (of nuts and bolts), which I'm sure hadn't been invented at the time of donut creation, but perhaps had been at the time of donut naming.
:As suggested by the Irving quote, the spelling "doughnut" came before the invention of the hold doughnut. --Kneague 18:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. It seems logical. 67.188.172.165 22:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling and word origin 

message: In what's probably a case of amateur editing by people who haven't read all the way through the article, it's mentioned twice that Homer Simpson likes doughnuts.  Not sure if this even deserves to be in there once, but twice is overkill.  I say the first mention is the more incongruous -- any one care to disagree?  --Heath 66.32.1.24 23:02, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homer, Homer again 

message: doughnut (food) to doughnut. Why is (food) in the title anyway? doughnut already redirects to this article, so the article should be at simply doughnut. Car salesman 15:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~
*Support reflexive redirect --Lox (t,c) 19:28, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed move 

message: The article says pizza and hamburger come from the US, which seems quite obviously wrong. Pizza comes from Italy, hamburger is more controversial.
Eulen 08:41, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually pizza comes from ancient Greece.Cameron Nedland 02:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ACTUALLY it's not known where Pizza comes from. There are several theories for it, some point to Greece while others point directly at American origins. There are facts, though. It's a fact that Pizza was not a popular dish in Italy before it was made popular in the U.S. and it's also a fact that the name "Pizza" didn't come from Italy but was, on the contrary, adopted there after its popularity in the U.S.  So no. It's not "Obviously" wrong and you people would do well to think twice before making sweeping statements and question yourselves: "Am I saying this because it sounds obvious?" (first case) or "Am I saying this because I read it once and it sounds nice and tidy?" (second case). --eduo 17:48, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pizza and hamburger come from the US? 

message: There is an unreferenced claim in the E._E._Smith entry, "Persistent but unconfirmed accounts maintain that Dr. Smith developed the first process for sticking powdered sugar on doughnuts," which I would like to substantiate or remove.  This would have been sometime after 1936, while Dr. Smith was the chief Donut Weevilhttp://fanac.org/fanzines/Spaceways/Spaceways1-06.html for for the Dawn Doughnut Company of Jackson, Michigan.Sam Moskowitz (1966). Seekers of Tomorrow, p. 19.  Can anyone confirm or deny this?  The earliest web source I've been able to find for this is Computer games: 40 years of fun, ZDNet UK, November 23, 2001 by Graeme Wearden, who hasn't responded to my inquiry.
FlashSheridan 17:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the process for sticking powdered sugar on doughnuts? 

message: The article can't sustain the inclusion of every 20 location doughnut chain on the planet.  Even if each American state has only one state-only chain 'worth' mentioning, that's a list of 50 entries.  This list will get too long very quickly.  I suspect that some of the others (that I didn't remove) on this list aren't worthy of inclusion either, but the user who added the last one (Daylight Donuts) specifically mentioned the limited range (so no offense to Daylight Donuts, but you're not Dunkin Donuts, or Tim Hortons!) - BalthCat 12:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doughnut Chains 

message: I changed our reference to WI from "1st printed use" to "early printed use" because a check of Newsbank's Early Amerrican Newspapers database gave a hit from 1808:
:"Time was, when the girls had their young friends with them of an evening...then the company sat round the large round table to their tea, while a plentiful supply of fire-cakes and dough-nuts furnished out the repast..." "Sketches & Views", The Times (Boston);  Date: 1808-01-30; Vol: I; Iss: 8; Page: [29].
I'm sure there are earlier references available in print, so I doubt that this is the first. It is apparently earlier than WI though. --JJay 19:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! - BalthCat 19:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: No problem. Great article by the way. --JJay 19:49, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1st printed use 

message: It seems to me that donut seems more common, at least on signs and billboards where space is expensive.  I think we should move it to donut.  Any thoughts?Cameron Nedland 03:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree. I don't think we rename articles simply because one spelling is more popular than another perfectly correct spelling.  I'm also assuming you're more familiar with local, and mainly American, advertising and media, as opposed to that in other English speaking countries.  What's the worst thing that will happen if some one looks up donut and gets doughnut?  They learn a new spelling.   I was sure this proposal had been made before and was discussed on this talk page, but now I don't see it.  It doesn't appear to have been archived either.  Perhaps I'm crazy. - BalthCat 05:05, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Chill bro, that's cool with me.Cameron Nedland 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I have to agree...I consider donut to be in the same vein as lite, kwik, and other casual spellings.  I would be dismayed to find donut in a dictionary, except as an "alternate spelling" of the proper doughnut.  I don't mean that donut is wrong, but ... well.  Let's just say it's only rite. --GenkiNeko 04:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Donut or Doughnut? 

message: The list of doughnut chains is getting too big for the article.  Unless we set some kind of standard, like X number of outlets, then it's hard to cull the list... and even then it's going to be hard to verify some chains.  So I think that unless a chain is *particularly* notable it should be relegated to this list.  That, or the chains should be turfed completely. - BalthCat 14:20, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split 

message: Manitoba uses this name to refer to jelly doughnuts; I think it's something that would be worth inclusion, though I'm not sure where would be best.  The regional varities doesn't seem the best place for it...-Wmcduff 02:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jambuster