Talk:Leading-tone

message: The article uses the term "diatonic" without adequate explanation. This term, along with chromatic, is the cause of serious uncertainties at several Wikipedia articles, and in the broader literature. Specifically in this case, the leading note in the harmonic minor is not under discussion at all, if we assume that scale not to be diatonic. Some of us have thought that both diatonic and chromatic need special coverage, so we started up a new article: Diatonic and chromatic. Why not have a look, and join the discussion? Be ready to have comfortable assumptions challenged!
– Noetica♬♩ Talk 05:40, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Diatonic and chromatic

message: I added one audio example to the article. Hyacinth (talk) 22:34, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reqaudio

message: ===Unclear citation style===
Why, what, where, and how does this article have an unclear citation style and what should be done about it? Hyacinth (talk) 12:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Tag removed. Hyacinth (talk) 00:19, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Tag removed. Hyacinth (talk) 00:19, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: Why, what, where, and how does this article have an unclear citation style and what should be done about it? Hyacinth (talk) 12:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Tag removed. Hyacinth (talk) 00:19, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Unclear citation style

message: Why, what, where, and how does this article's tone and voice need to be made more consistent with the rest of Wikipedia? Hyacinth (talk) 12:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Tag removed. Hyacinth (talk) 00:19, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Tone

message: WikiProject Music Theory is spearheading a proposal to unify the layout of the scale-degree pages. The discussion can be found here. Since these pages not only include discussion of the scale-degrees, but also occasionally discuss triads and seventh chords built on these scale-degrees, it is important to systemize these pages. This will also curtail the creation of pages for each individual triad and seventh chord, some which may not necessarily contain enough content to be expanded beyond a stub. I invite you to comment on the proposal with thoughts, criticisms, or suggestions. Thanks! — Devin.chaloux (chat) 19:07, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to unify the layout of scale-degree pages 

message: It is not the best example. G# and A is a better example.
Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 06:17, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Why?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 16:03, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume it's because of the accidental. Hyacinth (talk) 09:17, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  B and C as example 

message: Does anyone know why the title is hyphenated? I've only seen it as two words with no hyphen. Squandermania (talk) 21:02, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hyphen 

message: In the section about the leading-tone triad, one reads the following statement followed by an example:
:In C major and C minor, it is a B diminished triad (though it is usually written in first inversion, as described below)
I don't know to what "as described below" refers, but certainly not to the example which shows triads in root position. The example should be redone, with triads in first inversion, because as it is it shows something that even a first-year student would not write. Triads in root position cannot follow each other, even when the first is a diminished triad. In first inversion, parallel chords are fully acceptable. — Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 13:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What example needs, or needed, to be redone? I assume an image no longer present. Hyacinth (talk) 09:23, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Indeed, the example does not seem to be there anymore (it must have been an example with chords in root position and parallel voice leading, resulting in parallel fifths – never mind). As to the mention of "written in first inversion, as described below", the description is in the "Voice-leading" subsection. It might be better to link to it, but I don't immediately see how to do it. — Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 10:23, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leading tone triad 

message: I am unfamiliar with the notation used throughout this article, e.g., 
: A leading-tone triad is a triad built on the seventh scale degree in a major key (), while a leading-tone seventh chord is a seventh chord built on the seventh scale degree (). Walter Piston considers and notates  as , an incomplete dominant seventh chord .
I read Template:Music, and while I mostly understand the use of the template to generate the notation, I blank on much of what its symbols refer to. There's no name or explicit reference to the symbol system — the article assumes that the reader is familiar with it: Not reliably true. Is this a standard notation, and is it described anywhere, either on WP or elsewhere? If so, it needs an explicit reference, preferably early in the text rather than buried in one of the many references.
I considered adding :Template:No footnotes, but refrained because there are many inline Harvard-style references.
--Thnidu (talk) 19:10, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This notation apparently is common in music theory teaching in the US (insofar as one still teaches tonal theory in the US). It is an adaptation of Gottfried Weber's usage, as illustrated  here, and the presence of these signs in Template:Music confirms that people consider them common enough. I think that any music theorist reading English would be aware of them. The question that you implicitly raise is whether en.Wikipedia must be considered mainly American ... — Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 17:11, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for that information. But it isn't (just) the geography of the readership that concerns me, but the type of readers. Your own words reveal the difference: "...people consider them common enough. I think that any music theorist reading English would be aware of them." Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a work on music theory, and as such the article should include, at the bare minimum, references to allow the general reader to learn about the notation.--Thnidu (talk) 15:03, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

text:  When I wrote that "people" consider them common enough, I was thinking of the guys who create templates for Wikipedia. I don't suppose that they are all music theorists. Would you think that anyone without any idea of music (and of some elementary music theory) be interested in what a "Leading-tone" is? Note also that the fragment of the lede that you quote always mentions in full the chord concerned, and adds the notation only in parentheses. You say that this notation is used "throughout the article", but it actually is used only rarely. Anyway, I added a link to Roman numeral analysis: I don't see what else one could do. — Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 18:28, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

text: Sometimes music is like math in that if one does not know the name of a symbol or the name of the system of symbols it is a part of then one may have great difficulty attempting to look it up. However, Wikipedia is not a classroom, per WP:NOTHOWTO. I think what your section heading should say is that explanation would help understanding of the article, not that it needs a reference, because most readers who couldn't understand this article would most likely have more difficulty with references to technical/instructional manuals in a specialized field. Hyacinth (talk) 10:08, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

text: Thank you for these observations. I think that when I get home later I will review this discussion on a larger screen (laptop vs smartphone), so I can see most of it without scrolling (and more than 12 words of my response!), and maybe take your suggestion. Thnidu (talk) 23:55, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:   Hi great to have you here! I know this reply is a bit late, but I think the info you want about the notation is at Roman numeral notation. Fh1 (talk) 15:32, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notation? Reference needed! 

message: The players for the auto-generated audio from LilyPond notations all link to "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Undefined" on the main page, but are being hosted (and can be found by going to their pngs link and changing the file extension to mp3) and are also present and playable in their holders within the visual editor.
Attempted a potential fix I found with no luck, and am both new to wiki editing and LilyPond, so I'm not quite sure what the problem is if anyone else might have an idea. S8D (talk) 09:35, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  LilyPond audio players unlinked to their respective mp3s