Talk:Gratuity

message: There was a story on National Public Radio in the USA - many years ago - which indicated the word 'tips' originated as an acronym for "To Insure Prompt Service."  Anybody have any idea whether there is research to support that etymology?
Similarly, though not relevant hear, a presenter on WJR radio in Detroit (sometime in the 1970's) indicated the word 'cop' also originated as an acronym - "Constable On Patrol".  No idea whether that one is true or not.
The story that the slang "Wop" originated as 'W.O.P.' for "Without Papers" is definitely not true; rather, 'wop' and 'woppa' are phonetic corruptions of Spanish "guapo."
50.115.74.132 (talk) 21:18, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The word "tip" did not originate as an acronym. This has been addressed previously on this page -- just scroll down to "Etymology". Canadian2006 (talk) 00:22, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Acronym as origin

message: says not giving one means give told off and considered rude for that it means its not gratitude or a thank you but mainly cause you get made to also note that they get payied less in salary and that customers have to pay extra for there meal drinks to be deilvered even though its part of there job do service us and other people who do there job you gets extra money  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pennyann89 (talk • contribs) 21:55, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: gratitude

message: Why is there a Tipping by region section in this article and a different one at Tipping by region ? Either the separate article should be merged into here or the section in here be removed. As it stands there's differing and contradictory information. 121.45.49.48 (talk) 17:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: My suggestion would be to merge Tipping by region into this article and redirect. I cannot see any reason for a separate article covering the same subject. – ukexpat (talk) 19:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

text: I don't think merging is practical. It would require huge amounts of editing. The other article should be blanked and redirected to here.--Njsustain (talk) 23:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

text: I love it how there is no New Zealand on the map! ZL3XD (talk) 08:44, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tipping by region 

message: "Noisalt" has recently added a citation request for virtually every non-cited statement in the article. While he has a right to do so, I do not see what the point of this is. He (or she) has not added a single thing to the discussion page about it (though did bring up a valid discussion point a while ago). Wouldn't it be more worthwhile to focus on certain areas that need improvement? Again, while people have a right to request a citation, it is not mandatory that there be one for every statment made. For example, it is widely known that most states allow servers to be paid less than minimum wage, and I don't see how finding a reference stating such improves the article. That is the top priority rule in wikipedia... if a rule does not actually help improve the article... ignore the rule. 
Though they look ridiculous, I don't care personally about all the "citation requests". But I will care if someone uses them as an excuse to start deleting information willy nilly. That is not going to improve the article. I still agree that much of the article is off-hand or dubious, but I don't think the recent tactic is positive. 
Also, please note that finding one reference does not mean you can delete a bunch of other referenced information. Add your point of view... don't replace that of others (especially if it was referenced.)Njsustain (talk) 21:30, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excessive citation requests 

message: While the recently added text on server wage is well written, it is completely unsourced, of questionable relevance to the readers of the article, and is clearly one sided. If not altered for references and NPOV, it should be severely cut back or removed. --Njsustain (talk) 11:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The taxation part shouldn't be here.  This page is a disaster.  We should focus solely on the concept of tipping not the taxing of it, or any of the other fluff. Chigibby (talk) 13:50, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  US Taxation 

message: I don't think the "how2tip.com" website should be listed as a source. It is not, as is described in the article a "tipping etiquette" website. It is poorly written, based on someone's personal opinions, and clearly CLEARLY biased in favor of the service industry personnel. It's rather ridiculous actually. Anyway, if it stays it needs a balanced POV, but I really think it's just not good information.Njsustain (talk) 23:48, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Upon further reading, this website is not only biased and Las-Vegas centric, but also disreputable. I won't elaborate, you can see for yourself. It's out of the article. Njsustain (talk) 10:36, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Njustain for your editions enhancing what I wrote. I also agree with your opinion about that webpage.--Garcilaso (talk) 01:56, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biased websites as sources 

message: I deleted most of the unsourced material from this page, per the RFC above (What should happen with this article?), and various policies including verifiability (see the five pillars) and the boldface text directly under the edit window. The article included source requests that were displayed for over two and a half years. Based on all of this, and frankly ignore all rules above all else (unsourced, unreliable hearsay does not improve the encyclopedia), this was the only reasonable move.
This was not a "slash and burn", as the article's previous state, and all unsourced contributions, are forever available at this URL http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tip&oldid=311344336 if anyone wants to restore them with sources. Until then, we press on and hope for better. —Noisalt (talk) 00:50, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this action was completely inappropriate. You blantantly stated that a rule was your reason for doing this, and that another rule was just not a good rule. You can't have it both ways. I think it would be more appropriate to concentrate on certain sections to be reasonable and fair to other editors. Well, if anyone restores any particular section, please give reasonable time to allow sources to be found.Njsustain (talk) 12:25, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What did I say was not a good rule? —Noisalt (talk) 22:43, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  >> " and frankly ignore all rules above all else (unsourced, unreliable hearsay does not improve the encyclopedia " -  I have never said that IAR is a catch all excuse for everything. It has appropriate uses, and is indeed valid when the catch all "sources" reason is blindly thrown out as an excuse for deleting what are positive contributions to an article. As you see, I did not revert any of your changes. Sorry if I'm a bit defensive about the IAR rule, but I am tired of people using "I have a right to delete anything without a reference" as a reason for making articles worse. Anyway, I hope we can move on from here. You might want to check out the bizarre "Tipping by region" article. I have no idea why it was created or why people are editing it when this article exists. If it's any consolation, this article gets much more traffic. Jack Sprat (talk) 23:50, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Nuke

message: Because a "tip" also means a dump in the UK, Australia and New Zealand.--Tyranny Sue (talk) 13:35, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It clearly states in the title that this article is about gratuities. It says "Tip (GRATUITY)" and there is a link to a disambiguation page at the top. With all due respect, I don't know how much clearer it could be. Njsustain (talk) 20:01, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I see what you mean. What happened is I put "tip" in the search box & it sent me straight here, rather than to the disambig page. And then somehow I guess I didn't notice the disambig note (perhaps I was so outraged by the missing meaning I couldn't think straight; haha). But shouldn't a search send one to the disambig page?--Tyranny Sue (talk) 01:25, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Right, so how is 'the most common usage' determined? If it's a wikipedia policy do you know what the policy is called, please? (It seems more balanced and objective, to me, to send people to the disambig page and let them decide for themselves what kind of information they're after, but if it's a matter of current policy I suppose there's not much point discussing it here.)--Tyranny Sue (talk) 15:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The Tip (Gratuity) page receives about 500 hits per day. About 20 people a day find it necessary to go to the disambiguation page. You may look at these objective numbers and decide if everyone entering "tip" should be automatically be directed to the disambiguation page and then 24 out of 25 have to click the link to Tip (gratuity), rather than having the 1 out of 25 people interested in something else to redirect themselves to the disambiguation page. By the way, "landfill" receives up to 1500 hits a day, while "landfill (disambiguation)"  receives about 5. Would you suggest making "landfill" also go automatically to disambiguation, as well as every single article on all of Wikipedia with a disambiguation page? I appreciate your interest on how WP disambiguation works, but perhaps you should gain more experience with this subject before being so critical of standard practice. Njsustain (talk) 16:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't the fact that searchers are being automatically directed to a particular page increase that page's hits? --Tyranny Sue (talk) 02:30, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly. The point is that if people were really looking for information about garbage receptables, then you would see them clicking the disambiguation page, because this would be the wrong page. Instead, they enter "tip", get sent here, and only 20 out of 500 think they are in the wrong place. That means the 96% of them wanted to be here.—Kww(talk) 03:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Tyranny Sue, the guideline you are looking for is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. It suggests looking at pageviews, incoming links and Google searches to determine which of two or more articles with the same title is the primary use for the term. In fact, since this article is the primary use of "tip" as an article title on Wikipedia, it should really be directly at Tip; there's no need for a qualifier (gratuity) when tip redirects here anyway. Station1 (talk) 23:10, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why does search for "tip" not go to the disambig page? 

message: Hi,
I'm a westerner living in Japan and people here often ask me why we tip in "our countries". This article explains me HOW we tip and WHERE we tip and why we CALL IT tip, but nowhere it says WHY at some point in "our" history we found the need to pay the waiters and other service-related job directly from the customer's pocket. Maybe the answer is so obvious it is not worth writing or something I'm missing but from a Japanese point of view that's where the article should start. Any expert on the matter?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.82.174.230 (talk) 14:14, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The answer is not obvious. Tipping originated in the west when very wealthy people showed off to each other by giving extra money to service people when they paid, thus showing they had so much money they could basically throw it at poor people. The origin of tipping is therefore very insulting to service personnel, and while it grew more commonplace it was still considered highly insulting to tip the owner of any business. The practice waned somewhat, but has obviously returned stronger than ever due to worker's sense of entitlement rather than wealthy customers' snobbishness. To be honest I don't feel like adding this in to the article right now. If someone wants to look up reliable references and add them in, go crazy. PS I don't claim to be an "expert." Njsustain (talk) 16:53, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to the States on Friday and I'm glad I found this article. I find it very difficult to understand where to give tips and above all, how much. What about diners or something like waffle house or applebee's? How much tip do you have to give there if you do not want to appear rude? As far as I understand at least 15 % because they have table service. Correct? --Mk4711 (talk) 00:17, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins of Tipping 

message: A lot of bad and/or unreferenced original research and anecdotal information has been making it's way into the article again. 
This isn't a blog... it's an encyclopedic article. The recent addition on "Israel" was completely biased, poorly written, and had outright false information. Many of the sections need to be referenced or pruned, or cut.Njsustain (talk) 19:50, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Tipping is described as not customary virtually everywhere. Would it not be more useful to indicate in the introduction that tipping is rare, and generally only an American phenomenon?101.98.155.186 (talk) 19:11, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs another shakedown 

message: "A tip (also called a gratuity) is a voluntary extra payment made to certain service sector workers in addition to the advertised price of the transaction."
This isn't quite right.  Tips often seem to be expected and given, to particular workers,  where there is NO advertised price for the transaction.Eregli bob (talk) 00:00, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't think of a situation where you tip someone even though no business is conducted. If you tip a doorman, that is in addition to his salary or the rent. If you tip a skycap, that is in addition to your plane ticket. If you tip a hostess, that is in addition to your meal. What do you propose would be a better description? How about "in addition to formally agreed upon costs." Njsustain (talk) 12:19, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another dubious statement 

message: There's no Mexico listing on here!
66.189.168.57 (talk) 03:42, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mexico?  

message: Another meaning of gratuity not reported here or elsewhere in Wikipedia is the use introduced by Jacques Monod in the field of molecular biology.  This usage is described in the scientific literature, for instance, .  Disambiguation is needed in the article.
Parveson (talk) 19:58, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another meaning of gratuity 

message: I suggest to rewrite the form of this article and add literal translations. Instead of writing "Tip (Trinkgeld) [..]" it should be just "Trinkgeld [...]" or better yet "Trinkgeld (lit. drinking money)" since this article has a sociological nature. Otherwise it is misleading and not useful: The Tip in "Tip (Trinkgeld) [...]" adds no knowledge since the article is about tipping.
By this I don't mean we should add etymological explanations (as suggested before) but i would like to follow typical styles and reduce misleading nonsensical structures. 
Similar critique goes for "'es stimmt so' ('keep the change')" which would be improved as "'es stimmt so' ('keep the change', lit. It's OK like this)" or better yet "'es stimmt so' (lit. It's OK like this)" since again the equalization of "es stimmt so" to "keep the change" holds no additional meaning and is misleading. The surrounding sentience "saying XYZ informs the waiter/waitress you're rounding up the bill" already provides the same knowledge - that he/she is supposed to keep the change - without the misleading equalization.
Examples of other articles using the typical style:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindergarden, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kn%C3%B6del, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Kokuji
Here is the current text for Germany as a good reference and to trace changes:
Tips (Trinkgeld) in Germany are commonplace in restaurants and bars. Whilst a tip is not mandatory, it is always appreciated when left as a thanks for excellent service. It is the norm to give 5-10% as a tip (not in fast-food restaurants). In German, saying 'es stimmt so' ('keep the change') informs the waiter/waitress you're rounding up the bill.
Should be:
Trinkgeld (lit. drinking money) in Germany are commonplace in restaurants and bars. Whilst a tip is not mandatory, it is always appreciated when left as a thanks for excellent service. It is the norm to give 5-10% as a tip (not in fast-food restaurants). In German, saying "es stimmt so" (lit. It's OK like this) informs the waiter/waitress you're rounding up the bill.
PS: Since literal translations are not always easy, I do not need to see mine used - but that's not the dispute.
Happy writing, Moooitic 93.220.18.112 (talk) 12:33, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literal Translation 

message: The current definition is incorrect: "an extra payment made to certain service sector workers in addition to the advertised price of the transaction."  There is no advertised price of a transaction for a doorman to open the door for you.  The actual definitions are all very similar to "a sum of money tendered for a service performed or anticipated" (which I will change it to), and none of them include any mention of advertised prices or transactions.
In addition, "Though by definition a tip is never legally required" is completely false, as there is nothing in any definition that addresses legality or requirement, and many restaurants require a certain tip for large parties, the notification of which I believe constitutes a legal requirement. Keyesc (talk) 17:18, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Court rulings have found that gratuity is gratuity and that it is discretionary and prosecutors denied to uphold theft of service charge. It's just better to avoid contentious claims for something that is in the grey area. It might not uphold under criminal law, but it could be upheld under contract law as a civil case, but if the reason for non payment was that customer felt the service was inadequate, then the restaurant maybe in breach of its end of contractual obligations. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 20:06, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition 

message: The paragraph on Germany is full of contradictions: Are tips “reserved for very good service”, usually 5 to 10% or rounding up to the next euro? In my experience it's mostly the third option (even if the tip amounts to only 1 or 2% of the bill and the service was not particularly good) but in any case this needs to be clarified or nuanced. GL (talk) 22:26, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As a German I have to disagree with the criticism. I think, the paragraph on Germany is fine as it is. It represents the situation. Small numbers like 1,80 € are being rounded up to 2 €. If you had a meal and were happy with the service, you probably would tip a bit more (5 to 10% depending on how to reach a number without digits). And it is very common to hand over for instance 20 € and to say something like "twelve", if you have to pay 10,50 € without the tip. You will receive 8 € as change and that's it. And if you are not satisfied, you can express it giving no tip. Yes, no tip. anonymous (talk) 15:24, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germany 

message: The informal tone of this article needs to be addressed. "Tipping may be considered weird" and the frequent use of personal pronouns "you would tip..." This is most apparent in the US section where I found "Why are you eating out in the first place if you cannot afford the tip?" Shocking. Clearly written by a few angry waiting staff in some sections!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.168.180 (talk) 21:06, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Your comment was so important that you couldn't even sign in to post it. ZL3XD (talk) 08:50, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Tone

message: Several states and cities in the United States now allows restaurants to automatically put a gratuity charge on you bill.  Where i work it is a 20%, Olive Garden is 10-18% depending on the location.  Here in North Carolina min wage is $7.25, but if you work a tipping job you make $5.25 regardless on if you make enough tips to cover the difference, and with Pizza Delivery  you rarely get that.
Added by-tlarseth-  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.248.84.3 (talk) 15:54, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  possible addition 

message: I moved contents around and made significant edit to tipping in US and Canada. I removed anecdotal and unreferenced entries. I went through references and removed some contents and associated references when the factual claim was based on anecdotal comment that merely personal anecdotes from letter to editor column. 
"average" generally refers to mean average based on calculation, or median if explicitly stated.  Though data from 1991 is severely outdated, that is about the only reference I can find that has objective data on average tip.  The claim of higher average is only supported by author or editorial opinions, but not by data.  
Cantaloupe2 (talk) 00:55, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Tipping in North America

message: In response to request for comment on inclusion of this uncited sentence in lead:
" This etiquette applies to bar service at weddings and any other event where one is a guest as well. The host should provide appropriate tips to workers at the end of an event." 
A reliable, neutral source that is not some site ran by severs that say we should tip them is expected.
:Did you look for a reliable source?  Or perhaps consider tagging the sentence so someone else would know to look for a source?  GaramondLethe 07:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added the cite.  GaramondLethe 08:08, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

text: The statement refers to "etiquette", not customs, which are not the same thing. Etiquette specifies that only a host is to provide tips at an event to which the guest is invited. The two statements were contradictory and it has been altered. No authoritative etiquette source would claim that etiquette expects guests to pay for anything at any event to which they have been invited. Njsustain (talk) 15:04, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  wedding service/event 

message: OK so unlike most articles this article does make out that there is a world outside of the USA but it does so in a very strange way.  Why is there a section for North America and later a section for other regions.  What a condescending attitude.  --ЗAНИA talk WB talk] 22:57, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is a valid concern for objective POV. To help the article have a globally neutral presentation, I adjusted the headings. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 08:22, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  North American Bias 

message: How much activity was involved in using the pictures and graphs you have incorporated? During the presentation, you stated that a certain amount of interaction was needed before the use of pictures was accepted. What did this involve? MComitor (talk) 01:13, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of Pictures/Graphs

message: While adult entertainers do sometimes receive tips, perhaps having a picture demonstrating this fact is unnecessary. I suggest removing or replacing the image "Strippers_strip_club_Mexico_City.jpg" under the Hungary section may make the page more suitable for a wider range of audiences. Also, having that particular image there does not add to the information already presented on the page so there's no real reason to keep it anyway. Garethsime (talk) 12:21, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images of Adult Entertainment 

message: Several bar graphs have been uploaded purporting to compare tipping percentages in different regions.  One such region is "Latin America and the Caribbean" which has four bar-graph entries.  While classification into regions I believe is convenient to divide up the world simply to locate an area of interest, I think this presents several problems when taken a step further with the bar graphs by region without an exhaustive study to insure apples to apples comparison by experts rather than self-published and random numbers.
1) What relationship does Mexico have to the Dominican Republic, "St. Barth's" and then the "Caribbean" as if each of the four were countries?  Is anyone serious about this?  Caribbean is listed as 17.5%, yet St. Barts and Dominican Republic at much lower levels, yet both are in the Caribbean.  Mexico, on the other hand is the largest Spanish speaking country in the world with diverse industries and problems.
2) Mexico is listed at 17.5%.  This is demonstrably false and misleading.  The source is the same: a helpful editor simply uploaded what essentially is a non-expert travel writer's  blog from about.com and considered it authoritative and reliable.  Neither are true regarding the author.
3) I feel the problem is a severe bias for US vacationers comparing vacation spot experience at certain resort cities, and based only on personal experience not reliably.  This runs against the entire concept of this article which IMO explores tipping customs in different countries among the vast population.  It is especially ridiculous in a country as huge as Mexico where Tourism is only one industy and not the overwhelming source of GDP.  As such this article has developed a systemic bias to being a travel blog (thus the info in the graphs was misappropiated for the wrong use).
Furthermore, North America's graph only has Canada and the US.  Yet Mexico is part of the North American Free Trade Agreement, and Most of Mexico including its capital Mexico City, Acapulco, etc. is in North America prompting even the CIA Factbook not to question Mexico's status as part of North America - yet another telling example of the US-centric bias in this article.
Please remove the graphs, the about.com souce is doing more damage than good and is unreliable.  The bar graph concept would be interesting - completely agree in theory though.  But without uniform criteria is is very confusing.  Would it be meaningful to put "Anglo-America and the Caribbean" as a category, and make a bar Graph of the United States, Caribbean, Jamaica and Aruba (when the Caribbean includes Jamaica and Aruba)?  Of course not.  Is the cited 17.5% tip rates in the US and Canada established such that it belongs in a bar graph?  Most all the folks I know pay 15% in the USA, unless inm large groups, just saying, this is not a travel blog, it is for detailing tipping customs throughout the world by residents.  
As a thought for contemplation, listing precise tip rates for travelers seems a job better left for travel guides, and this article might do better avoiding to much precision on them at all.  Describing the customs when they are typically varied based on countries regions, socioeconomic status, and a myriad of other factors make it infeasible IMO to attempt to make this an authoritative compendium of "acceptable" rates which unless carefully researched by controlling all variables are wide open to disagreement and everyone's individual experience causing implicit bias.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.82.128.211 (talk) 07:30, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the attempt, but as you stated, they're based on self-published data, which do not meet our requirements for WP:RS WP:SPS and WP:V.I don't know who made which portions of posts above, but anecdotes like "most folks I know" is not a valid evaluation. We need hard statistical data that is verifiable through reliable sources before we can claim as average and we can not extrapolate it to read beyond what the source confirms. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 20:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Cantaloupe2, I wrote this entire section of comments including the "most folks I know" comment which was intended as more of an introspective comment.  This reminds me of the study comparing the cost of Big Mac's across the world done by The Economist magazine, which controls exactly to minimize all the biases and come out with a statistically reliable overview of world Big Mac prices (which they theorize is related to purchasing power of the currency in every country).  That was a mammouth study by a leading peer-reviewed journal, just for Big Macs.  Unfortunately, to do the same for tipping is not feasible for the general case and IMO we ought to drop the idea as you point out the shortcomings of the data, and concentrate on improving the references for the more basic info that the article is still lacking.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.82.149.79 (talk) 21:18, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Graphs uploaded based on data from self-published about.com author 

message: Let's just make it clear that anything we have here needs to be verifiable. This means that others can go and prove it through what we consider reliable sources. Websites that are self published, user generated materials such as forum posts, news story comments, and self published YouTube videos are largely unacceptable. Even news stories need to be carefully evaluated if the comments are not merely the columnist/author's personal opinion. 
A neutrality concern arises when sources are gathered to advance certain position, such as gathering sources that predominantly side with servers like sources that encourage tip rates self-advocated by service workersCantaloupe2 (talk) 21:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality and reliable sources 

message: For this sentence: A number of economists have suggested that tipping is economically inefficient[citation needed], it is not clear that the reference that comes three sentences later backs up this sentence. Someone would need to find this journal article to see if it states that "A number of economists have suggested that tipping is economically inefficient." The wording makes it sound like OR/synthesis of a novel viewpoint.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 18:24, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economics 

message: I find the allegation of cherry picking to be amusing. In fact, to find the sources I added, I simply searched Google using the terms "tipping out kitchen", and duly reported on the articles that I found. Most of the articles from good quality sources seem to be critical of restaurant managers for taking servers' tips. That is just what I found out on the web. I did not find much evidence of restaurant owners' point of view on the purported practice of taking a portion of servers' tips. The one example of the managements' side of the argument (that taking a portion of servers' tips helps to pay for broken dishes). I'm not sure if that part of the recently added material has been retained in the subsequent edits. I will check to see if the broken dishes statement has been retained.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 23:07, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  cherry  picking 

message: I am finding the edits that occurred in between these revisions extremely objectionable. First of all, this is misleading. Video citation from popular press is highly sided using appeals to pity and emotion like "single mom server".. vs "successful multimillion dollar restaurants" 
The first part of paragraph is about New York law and second part is about extremely server sympathizing popular press video put together to make it seem like there is some sort of relationship between the two.  Please see original research and WP:EDITORIAL. Your opinion does not go into any part of the article, period.  We as wikipedia editors are not to make analytical or interpretive research. Keep in mind that this is an encylopedia. I have cut the biased contents and replaced it with factual statement, backed by official New York state source. The statement that this ordinance took effect in 2011 is also wrong. 
Cantaloupe2 (talk) 22:06, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questionable edits 

message: The following sourced material was entirely deleted by an editor. Are books and newspapers not permitted as sources? Has there been a change in Wikipedia policy that I am not aware of?OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 11:40, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Principal agent theory

message: The following material about tipping in Canada was removed. This material is sourced from the Globe and Mail, CBC News, and The Toronto Star, all respected news sources. This material was all removed by an editor, even after a new edit was proposed which removed contentious language such as "fork over":OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 11:59, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You're using a whole bunch of quotes that impairs neutrality. See See WP:Quotations. I am also concerned that your verbatim copy and paste of entire abstract of a journal written by someone else, which amounts to about a whole paragraph. It maybe a copyright infringement. We can discuss this in copyright noticeboard if we can not come to an agreement, but I think you're pushing the limit. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 18:50, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: A quote of from the copyvio section of the quotations section on WP: "The copied material should not comprise a substantial portion of the work being quoted, and a longer quotation should not be used where a shorter quotation would express the same information. What constitutes a substantial portion depends on many factors, such as the length of the original work and how central the quoted text is to that work. In one extreme case, Harper & Row v. Nation Enterprises, 400 quoted words from a 500-page book were ruled to be infringement.[3] Editors are advised to exercise good judgment and to remain mindful of the fact that while brief excerpts are permitted by policy, extensive quotations are forbidden." (my bolding added for emphasis). IN the current proposed edit, I use a 9 word quote.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 00:55, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

text: I do not work in a sector which is tipped, and I have not worked in a tipped sector in decades. I work for the government. I look in Google for material of interest on tipping and I propose it for inclusion. I do not have a conflict of interest. I am happy to include managerial perspectives. I recently tried to include the managerial perspective (that requesting a portion of tips covers the costs of dish breakage and currency errors), but this addition, along with virtually all other additions was reverted. Thus far, an editor has reverted almost all of my changes, including material from major newspapers which would seem to qualify as reliable sources. The only material which Cantaloupe2 has not reverted is my additions to the etymology section.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 00:45, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Canadian material removed

message: I see you have not responded to my question on your talk page, which I asked to evaluate conflict of interest. I noticed that your sources and tone have been sympathetic with service workers. I am asking if you are a tipped employee who think from their point of view; which maybe a problem for you to be able to edit without bias. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 18:57, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not work in a sector which is tipped, and I have not worked in a tipped sector in decades. I work for the government. I look in Google for material of interest on tipping and I propose it for inclusion. I do not have a conflict of interest. I am happy to include managerial perspectives. I recently tried to include the managerial perspective (that requesting a portion of tips covers the costs of dish breakage and currency errors), but this addition, along with virtually all other additions was reverted. Thus far, an editor has reverted almost all of my changes, including material from major newspapers which would seem to qualify as reliable sources. The only material which Cantaloupe2 has not reverted is my additions to the etymology section.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 00:45, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Biased/Conflict of interest 

message: *a* researcher (from some institution) gave his own hypothesis that "in theory tip leads to hard work" is not the same as the statement of fact that "tip leads to hard workers" and that was improperly summarized. Since that source fails to establish that its a widely held remove, it does not belong here, which you can refer to here. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 01:37, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Why does a single quotation have to be a widely held view? I read the UNDUE sections you suggested, but I don't see how posting a scholar's opinion on tipping which occurs in an article needs to be reverted. On that grounds, the posting of all individual movie critics' opinions would be inappropriate, since any one journalist's views on a film are not a widely held view, but only the view of a single critic. I have never had this much of a struggle to put sourced content into any other article. OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 18:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed "a researcher said" prose 

message: :Also, regarding your concern about the removal of this news video that was aired about *a* server who filed a complaint against *a* restaurant, it is a video clip that basically quotes server herself claiming that restaurant did this, and a manager and the owner, also being aired "we did this" and "the manager is wrong". The contents are not generated by the media. It is heresy by the interviewee. See rumor mill gossips. This is not a significant issue in the overall matter of tipping in Canada. Having gone on air and quoted means they were given the chance to express their perspectives, not that it was published by the CBC. If you disagree, we can solicit for third party opinion, or take sources that you and I can't agree on inclusion to reliable source noticeboard and the contextual concern to neutrality point of view noticeboard Cantaloupe2 (talk) 01:15, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Just for the record I never posted or encouraged the posting of the news video. I posted quotes from the text version of the article, also available on the CBC website.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 18:36, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  highly contentious opinionated video 

message: The editor Cantaloupe2 has reverted additions of content in this article which he/she deems as opinions of an author. Wait a minute, we cite opinions all the time in WP. Go to a movie article, like Star Trek: Into Darkness, and you will see quotes from movie reviewers, stating their opinions about the film.
Here is a sample of some of the opinions quoted in ST:ID article:
::"Not all of reviews were positive, however, with The Independent saying that the film would "underwhelm even the Trekkies."
 American film critic Lou Lumenick of the New York Post gave the movie one and a half stars out of a possible four and said it had a "limp plot" and the "special effects are surprisingly cheesy for a big-budget event movie."
 New York Post, May 14, 2013, film critic Lou Lumenick. Review subtitle: "What the 'Trek'! The limp plot of this silly new sequel has its phasers set to dumb." A. O. Scott dismissed the film in The New York Times, writing, "It's uninspired hackwork, and the frequent appearance of blue lens flares does not make this movie any more of a personal statement." Anthony Lane from the  The New Yorker stated that "[m]ost of the logic has leached away from this movie, and with it half of the fun.""
Cantaloupe2, following your logic on this page, it would seem that you would want to remove these opinions on movie pages, since they clearly state opinions of authors, not facts. I don't understand how a statement being the opinion of an author makes it not acceptable to appear in this tipping article. Scholars have opinions about tips and tipping. It seems logical to me that we can put scholar's opinions, especially when they are clearly identified as opinion.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 18:25, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Except.. There is a section of MoS specifically tailored for films that doesn't carry over to this article. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 14:45, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opinions 

message: It is just unbelievable how much traffic this page has received.Nuroruc (talk) 05:00, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That is due to the lively debates over content and sourcing!OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 20:34, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment by Nuroruc

message: It is also a common practice to leave a tip for hotel housekeepers at the end of a long stay.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baires78 (talk • contribs) 13:45, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Tipping in Argentina

message: I enjoyed this article and there is a lot of information here. I was wondering if perhaps a graphs or some sort of visual representation like a table would help people better comprehend this subject.Medina sod (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 16:14, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment by Medina sod

message: There used to be an interesting section with economic opinions on the impact of tipping here. It looks like someone took it on themselves to remove it, which is a shame because the writing seemed neutral and well cited.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.55.48.198 (talk) 00:21, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economic critique 

message: It currently says "In Thailand a small tip is often left in restaurants". This is not true. Normal restaurants that cater to locals do not receive tips. High end restaurants and restaurants that cater to foreigners may receive tips, but it is optional and not something that will upset the servers. I have lived in Thailand for 7 years, so I know.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by UrsusMajor67 (talk • contribs) 13:49, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tipping in Thailand 

message: Five years later, the article is again full of original research. Since the warnings have been up for years, I've removed a big chunk of the unverifiable content. If anyone wants to restore some particular fact, it's easily accessible through the article history. —Noisalt (talk) 06:41, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nuke II 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Reference : Azar, Ofer H., 2009. "Tipping motivations and behavior in the US and Israel," MPRA Paper 20304, University Library of Munich, Germany.
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thread_title:  Dr. Azar's comment on this article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I was reading this Q&A from the Law Stack Exchange: What happened to the anti-tipping laws? I came to Wikipedia to learn why the laws were there in the first place, but there does not appear to be a treatment of the subject. Maybe a brief history or treatment of illegality would be a good idea. Jeffrey Walton  (talk) 04:17, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why was tipping illegal in so many US states less than 100 years ago? 

message: In my opinion, the country sub-headings on the 'Asia' section of the article should be in alphabetical order as it would make the article look more professional in my opinion. Xboxsponge15 (talk) 23:48, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tipping by region - Sub-headings in Asia section should be in alphabetical order 

message: "In Estonia, tipping (jootraha) is not required and never expected." - Not true, I can say as an Estonian, especially the "never expected" part. The custom (rare but not completely unknown in the 1980s) became widespread in the 1990s, with the influx of tourists and the rise in the living standards. By 2000, a lot of establishments in the tourist areas of the capital, Tallinn, paid rather little to the waiters (who were often students, especially in the high season during the summers) and expected them to survive on tips only. That wave has receded but tipping is still far from uncommon, although it is usually considered to depend on the customer's free will, income, and satisfaction with the service. There are people who never tip and probably have never seen anyone tipping (especially in the poorer rural regions) but then again, it is widespread among the (upper) middle class. Usually 5-10, less often 15%, it is done mostly in food business, sometimes in hotels and taxis (less now that everyone pays with a card, but some taxi and ridesharing companies have the option in their apps). Right now, due to the pandemics, tips have become rarer but also more important for the service staff. Of course, this is all just my experience and I don't have any sources to back it up. But neither has the current claim. --Ehitaja (talk) 01:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Estonia 

message: On the map Iceland is purple, which suggests that tipping in Iceland is insulting.  This is untrue. Some decades ago tipping was unusual but never insulting.  Today it is rather common to tip and recieve tips.
Best regards, Johanna, living and working in Iceland. 85.220.77.39 (talk) 09:53, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tipping in Iceland 

message: The map of Georgia is missing the parts of the country, namely Abkhazia AR. and part of Shida Kartli region occupied by Russia at the moment. Daviti Zhorzholiani (talk) 06:31, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The map of Georgia is incorrect