Talk:Muad'Dib

message: please reference the term "Mahdi" here on wikipedia in realation to Herbert's character.  The wealth of arabic cultural significane in Dune, obviously, cannot be overstated.  I've still never seen any satisfactory discussions of what, if any, commentaries Herbert was making in his writings. Spice=Petroleum? CHOAM=OPEC?? Fremen=fundamentalist muslims? Did anyone read Chapterhouse???? what the F???
:. Muaddib, The Messiah, Mahdi, and The Mahdi Army. Stop all spice production and bring the great houses to thier knees. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 22:41, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Please ...

message: Shouldn't the part about the band called Muad Dib be on its own page ("Muad Dib (band)")? I'd do it myself if I were certain about it.
-- 83.134.86.187 14:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separation of subjects 

message: First of all I must say that a large amount of the language of Dune has clearly arabic/muslim origin, as an arab reading this book I must say it certainly was interesting to draw parallels and at the same time understand the book in a different way. Knowing arabic really helps understand the book , an example would be Arrakis=Ar'raqis, the dancer. Though it may not mean much, it can hint at how it is every man's desire or something appealing yet unattainable. Or it could also refer to how it dances between one House and another , the polical dance. 
Now, just wanted to say that in arabic Muad'dib means "He who disciplines/teaches manners". Ad'dab or A'adaab are manners. Usul also has a meaning, if pronounced Ous-ul, it means "origins/source". This can tie to "strength of the base of the pillar", if you interpret base as start of a pillar, the first stone, origin, usul of the pillar. So the author didn't go too far with the meaning.
Mahdi also has an arabic origin , hes a religious figure in Islam (mainly to Shi'ites, a sect of islam) who will save mankind before judgement day. He will save mankind from evil, pretty much exactly what Paul is viewed as by the Fremen, supposedly after Mahdi comes the earth will become a better place, green , lush , etc. Same thing with Arrakis after Muad'dib.
Didn't add this to the article since I was unsure if it would help.--Karimi 02:14, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is great! I'm adding to Etymology that in arabic Muad'dib means "He who disciplines/teaches manners". Ad'dab or A'adaab are manners per common knowledge. Tnx, Karimi. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 22:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of Muad'dib 

message: i deleted the section on etymology because it is original research, which is disallowed.  text appears below. Benwing 23:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless of the rules I was specifically searching for etymology of words & phrases from Dune and this talk page was one of the first results. So, I wouldn't have found this information had previous sleuths not added the info. These days Wikipedia editors treat likely hypotheses as useless or dangerous information while giving published papers highest priority. Seems to me this goes against the founding ideology of Wikipedia.2604:2D80:DE11:1300:21DD:9EE:10A8:6CAC (talk) 23:48, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  original research 

message: Isn't Usul Fremen for "the strength of the base of the pillar", and not just
"the base of the pillar"? Goanm 14:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Search results seem divided, but apparently the 'strength' part was added in the film adaptation. — Feezo (Talk) 21:37, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  meaning of Usul? 

message: This is purely "original research", but I just spotted where this "moon shadow" thing was taken from:
Man in the Moon#Maula Ali's name on the moon
Enjoy! Wnt (talk) 15:20, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inspiration 

message: Merge this page with Paul_Atreides —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.107.230.53 (talk • contribs) 21:05, March 28, 2009
: I vote no.  It has more meanings than just it's relation to Pual and should stay separate. IRMacGuyver (talk) 02:34, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  IRMacGuyver is right. I will remove the merge template. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 21:41, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

text: Thank you for explanation, TAnthony. Please consider. Some items from the term list do have separate articles, like Kwisatz Haderach. Do we want to axe this article also and put a redirect to Paul instead? Muad'Dib term might be as notable and as wide. I personally like common knowledge info, like etymology, my motivation Dune background facts which might interest a wiki reader, but I see your point also we don't want to make an unreadable pile of mess. Still, Kwisatz Haderach looks like an appropriate model to follow also in Muad'Dib case. Your thoughts are welcome. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 18:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL, I knew you were going to mention the Kwisatz Haderach article. Muad'Dib is the name of a fictional mouse and subsequently an alias Paul adopts. What's more to say that is really notable?? The stuff about the Arakkeen moon and the etymology is just more trivia, really. The concept of the Kwisatz Haderach needs more explanation, but it is also somewhat redundant of material in the Bene Gesserit article and other places. I don't think it would fare very well in an AfD nomination, especially since the sourcing is pretty weak. There used to be a lot more Dune stubs that were merged, and honestly I think the KW article will ultimately need to be merged as well.— TAnthonyTalk 19:33, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

text: I do want to add that I personally find much of this extraneous info interesting and think others probably would as well, but it just doesn't meet the necessary notability requirements as presented here. If there are specific elements you think should have a place somewhere, perhaps we can find a way to do that.— TAnthonyTalk 00:30, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

text: Oh great Shai Hulud. So now it is not only Paul but also fictional mouse. And also moon and also constellation called Muad'Dib in the sky of fictional Arrakis. Agree sourcing is terrible, it is practically a stub, we better improve it. And I share your doubts on mouse. Any suggestions? Following Kwisatz Haderach -> Bene Gesserit logic we might end up merging this article into Arrakis or Fremen instead. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 17:35, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you agreeing with me or not? LOL. You need to think about what someone looking up "Muad'Dib" or following the link is expecting to find. I think it's most closely associated with Paul himself, it is only notable within the novel as the name he takes for himself, and most article links to it are in that context. If you're still suggesting that the article be restored and bulked up, I remind you that it's just a name, not an important concept in the novel or series. It doesn't matter that it's a name and a mouse and a sign on the moon, these are all plot details in the novel and not encyclopedic beyond what may be mentioned in context of plot summary in Paul Atreides or Dune (novel). WP:Notability (fiction) and WP:Trivia probably explain policy better than I can.— TAnthonyTalk 19:21, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

text: There is no consensus for keeping this stub either, and it is not an article. It is a dictionary entry for a fictional term. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Is there a separate page for "Shai Hulud"? No. Do we need an AfD to show you that this topic can never be expanded within policy to be a notable standalone article?— TAnthonyTalk 21:44, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

text: I think a redirect to List of Dune terminology#M would be better, as the entry for Muad'Dib defines all these fictional elements and links back to Paul, and actually serves as sort of a disambig page. But the "article" (especially the ridiculous image of a real-world kangaroo mouse) is way off base. — TAnthonyTalk 21:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: AfD really? It is interesting which source supports Arrakis Arabic dance claim. Agree mouse image is an OR, I will not protest much if you remove it. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 22:08, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL, re-reading my comment, it does sound a bit dramatic. I just know that there is little chance of much discussion on this talk page, and an AfD would get more attention. I'm still failing to see any real justification for this article's existence though. It is basically an overexpanded version of the passage at List of Dune terminology#M. Any reliable critical analysis of Paul as a messianic character or whatever would be superb backup for the character or novel article, but Muad'Dib is not really a topic. I'm not seeing where you think this article should go.— TAnthonyTalk 23:25, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: It seams that Frank Herbert Children of Dune specifically named fictional mouse of Dune as jerboa: "In a valley between two dunes he [ Leto Atreides II ] came upon a family of jerboa which scampered away at his approach." Do we treat it as primary reliable source? AgadaUrbanit (talk) 19:09, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Are we sure this is intended to be the same type of mouse as the Muad'Dib? Is there only one species on the planet?? LOL, you know me, it's all in the details ;) — TAnthonyTalk 23:10, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm. There could be some doubts if we were talking about Caladan but on Arrakis? It was still desert planet when Leto Atreides II met those fictional creatures. Maybe it was just a reflection of omnipresent Muad'Dib... ;) 10x for review. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 00:29, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Jerboa

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