Talk:Boeremag

message: This is nonsense. The boeremag is a terrorist organisation. To say that the wish to refrom the Boer republics of the Orange Free State and Transvaal is not a return to Apartheid is to misrepresent what it would entail. The fact is, to recreate these states and have them populated solely by White Afrikaners would obviously mean that the current residents, who are majority non-white, would have to be removed. By force. Considering that the original Boer republics covered at least 1/3 of South Africa's area, this is a sizable claim being made by the Boeremag. There is no reason why those areas should belong to them anyway - while it could be possible for people to consider those areas as having been 'stolen' by the British in the South African war of 1899-1902, the fact is that prior to that the areas had been 'stolen' by the native Bantu speaking inhabitants of South Africa, who, it could be concluded in this line of reasoning, 'stole' the land from the Khoisan inhabitants who lived there prior to the Bantu movement South from Central and West Africa. My point is that it cannot be argued that the land 'belongs' to anyone, and it certainly cant be claimed by the Afrikaners of the present day.
It is also not true that many Afrikaners do not and have not recognised the legitimacy of the South African state as set up in 1911 as the Union of South Africa. It is a very small minority, and may have grown since 1994 due to a feeling of dissatisfaction some white people in South Africa feel towards the ANC government. This is largely due to the end of white privelege under Apartheid, and cannot be claimed to be any more noble a nationalist movement than the National Party government was pre-1994.
Finally, the claims of boer genocide as made by the above commenter and the website www.stopboergenocide.com are absurd. The number of farmers in South Africa who have been murdered in the last 11 years is a very small fraction of the total number of people who have been murdered ion South Africa since 1994. Indeed the country has high crime rates, but 1700 people killed in 11 years  cannot constitute genocide when many times more than that have been killed in that period, black and white.
The article needs to be re-written, giving more information on the actual events mentioned that relate to the Boeremag, and links to other historical and modern information about politics and economics in South Africa to avoid the kind of confusion present in the above comments. 
---- 
This is where you are so wrong. The president of Genocide Watch has gone on the record stating that the killing of Boer farmers constitutes a genocide under the Genocide Convention. Furthermore: the Boers are the most at risk group for being killed in the whole world. Therefore they are the most at risk group for genocide. Due to their small numbers: their genocide would be much faster than if it were being targeted against any other group.   
 Ron7 16:17, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Return to former Boer Republics far more serious than implied

message: Read the full transcript of this program at this link.    
  Dr Gregory H. Stanton (Genocide Watch): “It seems to me a 
very troubling statistic that the murder rate of the farmers, the Boer 
farmers, is about four times as high as is for the rest of the population”
 
Dr. Stanton is a retired American professor of law who heads Genocide 
Watch, the organisation that co-ordinates the international campaign to 
end genocide.    
We met him in Berlin where he was attending a conference in 
remembrance of the Holocaust.    
He believes that, apart from crime, there's also another motive.    
Gregory: “There's a motive of hatred, that these are hate crimes, that people are tortured, that they're murdered in ways that are 
de-humanising.”    
Not only does Stanton believe farm murders are hate crimes, but he's also recently warned the world that the white farmers in South Africa could be facing genocide. Twenty years ago he witnessed the horrors of the Cambodian genocide.    
Gregory: “I realised, I think, from that point forward that I would spend the rest of my life working to stop genocide and to bring those who committed it to justice.”    
Years later, that's exactly what he did. He was the person responsible for drafting the UN resolutions that created the International Criminal 
Tribunal for Rwanda.    
Stanton has identified eight stages of genocide by comparing the history of genocides in the 20th century. He describes it as a process, rather than an act that could take many years to be effected.     
Gregory: “The third stage is really where you begin the downward spiral 
into genocide and that is the stage of de-humanisation. It is where you treat the other people as though they're less than human.”    
A scene like this, he says, should have the alarm bells ringing.    
This farmer was ambushed at his farm gate, shot in the back and left to 
die. His vehicle was burnt out and his body displayed with the lights and number plates.    
Gregory: “These are clearly hate crimes. It's such a symbolic expression of de-humanisation. They're so treating him like a thing.”    
It's often thought that a whole group needs to be killed before it's defined as genocide, but that's not the case.    
Stanton says the more than one thousand four hundred farmers killed in 
South Africa could be classified under the Genocide Convention.   
Gregory: “Even if it's a few hundred individuals who have been targeted, 
that is an act of genocide under the convention.”     
However, Stanton warns that South Africa has already slipped into the fifth stage of the process, or what he refers to as polarisation.    
Gregory: “Extremists attempt to drive out the centre, they attempt to 
divide the world into just two camps; into us and them.”    
And from there on, he says, it's a small step to the seventh stage when the actual genocide takes place and where the word genocide is used.  
Gregory: “People who commit this crime often think amazingly enough 
that they're purifying their society in some way or another, you know - they're getting rid of insects or some kind of less than human form of life.”
 
A civil war is potentially more likely, says Moolman.    
Prof Neels Moolman: “I don't think we are there yet, but I think that we 
are speeding to that point very fast if the radicals are not controlled properly.”    
Gregory: “They will say that the genocide was really just a civil war as though a civil war somehow was an opposite of genocide when in fact many genocides occurred during civil wars.”       
Watch part of this special at this link.  
The above sheds light on the situation facing the Boers & why the government finds it easy to blame them for the bombing (as an oppressed group) despite the complete lack of evidence in even establishing wether a Boer terrorist group exists or not.   
 Ron7 05:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genocide Watch Calls it a Genocide. 

message: I'm giving this a NPOV tag since at the moment, it seems to be implying that they aren't so bad after all, or that they are innocent. This is a terrorist organisation - they're not "irrendentist" or anything else, or an "irregular army". I think the article needs to be re-written, personally. XYaAsehShalomX 18:44, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Now that statement is simply ridiculous. The trial is going on for month. And still there is no hard proof to prove even the existence of such an organization let alone that those accused are members. Claims and perceptions is all that there is. So it is reasonable to assume that in fact some people in the police and the intelligence services are creating jobs and work for themselves to get a higher budget. Since all of the accused (Except for the state wittnesses) have a close to perfect civic record (Mike du Toit was even a lecturer at Vista, a Black University), I think we have good reason to believe that the prosecution doesn't have a case at all. I think people like you need to re-think what they are actually saying.
If you're going to make critical commentary, please have the courtesy to identify yourself. I agree with the first poster. Political discussion has its place elsewhere -- this is an encyclopedia and can only report what is known and from verifiable sources. Rhombus 00:32, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: | Neo-Nazi movements and concepts | Ethnic supremacy | You'll have to explain how these labels stick! White separatists maybe, but "Ethnic supremacy" and "Neo-Nazi" is even simply ridiculous. Come up with names that define and not those that designed to smear! 
: Too of the accused (in detention for ~3 years (sic)) "escaped" recently 'Prisons minister blames police for escape fiasco'
Considering the publications of support sites and media I think that any group who believes, propagates or incites violence against civilians is quite simply a terrorist or at the least a criminal. 
:: According to that definition the ANC and it's affiliates are at least criminal--196.207.47.60 (talk) 14:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'd like to copy that statement and sent it to South African so that they can have a good laugh about it--196.207.47.60 (talk) 14:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  That fear is actually reasonable foresight--196.207.47.60 (talk) 14:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrongly labeled. 

message: Would someone like to explain to me how the Boeremag "allegedly" exists, when international news agencies received emails in Afrikaans fom them a few hours after the bombings?
:: LOL, and what proof does exist that these messages were actually coming from them? --196.207.47.60 (talk) 13:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wrong question, what retards did actually believe they'd be better of by handing over power to the ANC. Besides that look at the mass-murder of Afrikaners going on at present--196.207.47.60 (talk) 13:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for clearing up that you are actually a biased retard commenting on an issue you do not have a clue about--196.207.47.60 (talk) 13:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

text:  There are indeed some problems with "existence of the Boeremag". It's save to say that they are at least not a coherent organisations or that the accused belonged to one. The group arrested before any bombings is definitely different from those that were arrested later. There is also no letters or documents attributed with them signed with "Boeremag". So it's a media-designed label. --105.236.101.253 (talk) 14:30, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liberal use of "allegedly" 

message: Well to date no concrete evidence has ever been produced to demonstrate the existence of this group as suggested by the State. How in the world do you know where the e-mails came from? Anyone can sent an e-mail to anyone from anywhere claiming anything! The authorities are still attempting to determine just who sent them[1] -so how in the world can you so confidently proclaim that you know who sent them when the authorities themselves do not even know?! I agree that if these actions were a genuine act (which is doubtful -due to a lack of evidence) that no one would gain by them. Which is all the more reason to be suspect that that this group even exists since it would be counter productive to the cause of Boer self determination.   
Also: even if this sort of group did exist: it could not technically be considered a "far right" group since far right activities tend to involve the propping up of a militaristic State - not the quasi guerrilla type actions of group representing a beleaguered minority which is languishing under the far right tendencies of the State.[2] As a matter of fact they appeared to have had some fine leadership in the late Robert van Tonder but he was rather ignored by the media & was often suppressed. 
Furthermore these alleged Boeremag people do not represent the Boers & neither does Eugene Terreblanche. Get informed. The AWB only ever represented a very small minority which was promoted in the mass media in order to discredit[3] the just cause of Boer self determination. 
Notes. 
1. The BBC reported that the authorities were investigating the veracity of the letter / e-mails. 
2. Racial Discrimination in South Africa. 
3. The Sellout of a Nation.  
When there is no evidence or when nothing has been conclusively proven the proper manner in which to refer to the account or allegation is to preface it with the world "allegedly" or "alleged" since stating or proclaiming otherwise would not only be inaccurate but also a violation of the NPOV rule of this encyclopedia project.  
 Ron7 (talk) 19:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Making Presumptions Without Providing nor Demonstrating Evidence to Support Claims. 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/BSB-man-is-betaal-om-2-te-vang-20121013. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  John of Reading (talk) 18:10, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The first of the three recent edits by  added a translation of this news item. I haven't investigated the other two edits, but they must be copy-pastes from somewhere as well, and are probably copyright violations. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:10, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: "In late October 2013, Mike du Toit, the ringleader of a plot to assassinate Nelson Mandela and expel Black people out of South Africa was convicted of treason and sentenced to 35 years in prison." That "plot to assassinate Mandela" thing hasn't even been pinned on him during the trial. The association with "expel Black people" stems from "document 12" about which Mike du Toit denies any knowledge. I think we should pay some attention to "evidence" planted by informers, which was ignored by the court, but leaked out elsewhere: https://archive.org/details/SwornAffidavitByDeonLoots  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.236.101.253 (talk) 14:39, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mike du Toit 

message: whAt food that was eaten by the boeremag?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.13.140.205 (talk) 07:56, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  food 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Israel vision connections, that is mentioned in several sources, does not seem to be included at all.   short mention (I'm sure there is more in the Media24 archives...)  MoHaG (talk) 19:13, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Israel Vision" connections 

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