Talk:Ferdinand Verbiest

message: This was top of the Main Page DYK list on Easter Sunday (afternoon). I think FV would have been pleased with the timing!
*...that in 1669, the Jesuit missionary and astronomer Ferdinand Verbiest persuaded the Kangxi Emperor to remove a month from the Chinese calendar?
EdJogg (talk) 00:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Did You Know...? (23 March 2008)

message: ===General===
* Beijing Ancient Observatory -- how come that page doesn't mention Verbiest, nor Verbiest's page mention the Observatory?????
* Fairfield University page - very good stuff, also suggests that the painting IS of Verbiest, with Chinese features. Plenty of scope for DYKs from here. Now included as ref, but formatting needs work!
* US-based Chinese (history) site -- absolute goldmine! , including big section on astronomy. This page is about Verbiest and includes a painting (origin unspecified) with photos/descriptions of his instruments on subsequent pages...(better than photos on Commons, unfortunately)
* History of telescopes -- good section on the 'competition', and the current state of the Observatory
* Belgium official history page!
* http://curiousexpeditions.org/?p=52 -- already used in article -- covers more than just the car
* Blog by Jerry Everard about a visit to the Observatory museum. Good starting point for the article upgrade.
* Ferdinand Verbiest Institute
*Engraving... at Washington State University
===Car-specific===
Pages that mention his steam 'car'...(difficult to isolate from the Wikipedia mirrors).
Note that Googling "verbiest car -wikipedia" is more productive than including 'steam':
* The Oldest Precursor of the Automobile - Ferdinand Verbiest's Steam Turbine-Powered Vehicle Model Society of Automotive Engineers (Paperback, 1995) by Horst O. Hardenberg (Author) Amazon page - includes ISBN etc -- added to article
* http://www.usfca.edu/ricci/exhibits/fusion/lectures/mir3.htm -- useful -- mentions basis on an aeoliopile by Giovanni Branca
**Thumbnails of images from Hardenberg's book -- showing that model had five wheels!
* several refs in Jstor (subscription required)
* Five Cool Hybrids To Consider In 2008 (Part 1), by James Raia, states: "Verbiest was a renowned  astronomer. But he also spent more than a decade developing a four-wheeled vehicle that could be powered by steam or horse. It was the first hybrid and it was short-lived." -- was this the same as the 'toy', or something different?
* The Wheels of Invention...Keep on Rolling -- (casual style) article covering development of wheeled transport.  Includes suggestion that Verbiest's 'car' was "...kept at China's beautiful Winter Palace until recently, when it mysteriously disappeared. According to written reports, this little car could chug along at a fairly brisk pace, but when the water ran out so did the ride."
* Autoworld Brussels - Early history -- includes REAR view of Verbiest's model, showing how drive was achieved
* B&W photo of the aeolipile-driven model -- NOTE looking at the Genealogy article (below) it is likely this was NOT Verbiest's design (hence Brumm model is incorrectly attributed!)
;Original refs used on other pages
The timeline entry is of limited worth, when compared to other refs found subsequently.The worth of the book reference is unknown.
* 
*:This link is now dead. Is available at Internet Archive, but not worth the bother.
*:Has been replaced on all pages by a link to translation of Hergé's page (see below).
* 
;Not just Verbiest's car...
* Belgian site - history of cars from origins to 1900 (top page) -- you know what? Verbiest was Belgian....try searching in 'Belgian' and you'll find what you're looking for, like this (Verbiest)!! (Google translation) -- now used as the prime reference on other pages.
* Généalogie de l’automobile (Google translation) -- excellent coverage of vehicle history, with illustrations -- Actually it was by Herge (Tintin) -- need to update links here and at History of steam road vehicles
EdJogg (talk) 16:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional Resources 

message: Pages that mention his steam 'car'...(difficult to isolate from the Wikipedia mirrors).
Note that Googling "verbiest car -wikipedia" is more productive than including 'steam':
* The Oldest Precursor of the Automobile - Ferdinand Verbiest's Steam Turbine-Powered Vehicle Model Society of Automotive Engineers (Paperback, 1995) by Horst O. Hardenberg (Author) Amazon page - includes ISBN etc -- added to article
* http://www.usfca.edu/ricci/exhibits/fusion/lectures/mir3.htm -- useful -- mentions basis on an aeoliopile by Giovanni Branca
**Thumbnails of images from Hardenberg's book -- showing that model had five wheels!
* several refs in Jstor (subscription required)
* Five Cool Hybrids To Consider In 2008 (Part 1), by James Raia, states: "Verbiest was a renowned  astronomer. But he also spent more than a decade developing a four-wheeled vehicle that could be powered by steam or horse. It was the first hybrid and it was short-lived." -- was this the same as the 'toy', or something different?
* The Wheels of Invention...Keep on Rolling -- (casual style) article covering development of wheeled transport.  Includes suggestion that Verbiest's 'car' was "...kept at China's beautiful Winter Palace until recently, when it mysteriously disappeared. According to written reports, this little car could chug along at a fairly brisk pace, but when the water ran out so did the ride."
* Autoworld Brussels - Early history -- includes REAR view of Verbiest's model, showing how drive was achieved
* B&W photo of the aeolipile-driven model -- NOTE looking at the Genealogy article (below) it is likely this was NOT Verbiest's design (hence Brumm model is incorrectly attributed!)
;Original refs used on other pages
The timeline entry is of limited worth, when compared to other refs found subsequently.The worth of the book reference is unknown.
* 
*:This link is now dead. Is available at Internet Archive, but not worth the bother.
*:Has been replaced on all pages by a link to translation of Hergé's page (see below).
* 
;Not just Verbiest's car...
* Belgian site - history of cars from origins to 1900 (top page) -- you know what? Verbiest was Belgian....try searching in 'Belgian' and you'll find what you're looking for, like this (Verbiest)!! (Google translation) -- now used as the prime reference on other pages.
* Généalogie de l’automobile (Google translation) -- excellent coverage of vehicle history, with illustrations -- Actually it was by Herge (Tintin) -- need to update links here and at History of steam road vehicles
EdJogg (talk) 16:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Car-specific

message: Added 5th Feb 2008 was an amendment to show that the model was 61cm long. The next edit added the following 'reference', although it was not inserted in-line:
*Williams, Guy R. The World Of Model Cars, 1976, Rainbird Reference Books Limited
I have remove these from the text as they were added by an anon editor (who has not edited another article) and I have been unable to corroborate them on-line. They have been retained here for future use, and re-instatement if verification is possible.
EdJogg (talk) 14:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  How big was the 'car'? 

message: This picture (:File:Chinese astronomer 1675.jpg) has now been renamed at Commons, its new name being:
:::File:Utagawa Kuniyoshi, Portrait of Chicasei Goyô (Wu Yong) (1827–1830).jpg
The description has also been updated, and now reads:
::"Chicasei Goyô (in Mandarin Chinese, Wu Yong), a fictional character from the classic Chinese novel Water Margin."
Consequently it has been removed from this article.
I felt that a follow-up note might be in order in case anyone comes looking here for guidance...
-- EdJogg (talk) 13:34, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Caption Update

message: One look at the drawing of Verbiest's car reveals it's front wheel driven. So, is the mention of rear wheel drive in the article based on other accepted facts, or just an error, or is the drawing wrong? Wurdnurd (talk) 14:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The links above show all the references I have found so far. I agree that the vehicle in the drawing shown will certainly run 'backwards', with the steering wheel trailing, but how accurate is the drawing? If you look at these pictures you will see a document by Hardenberg showing that the fifth wheel acted as a pilot for the steering axle: the drawing in the article rather looks like both axles are rigid. So could the axle-pinion be drawn the right way round? What we really need is access to the document tantalisingly shown in that last link... EdJogg (talk) 22:03, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rear wheel drive? 

message: on note number 18 the pdf link is no more active.
I wrote to the producer Brumm, they quickly answered me that now the pic is not any more there in pdf
but here:  http://www.brumm.it/00-media/00-database/640/OLDFIRE/X06.jpg 
Tonii it.wikipedia --79.17.182.227 (talk) 16:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for finding this. I have now updated the link. EdJogg (talk) 15:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  brumm  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Would be nice to have more images of the project and some datasheet (maybe a new page for the invention itself? Just wondering=) Lawtheagoraphobic (talk) 14:29, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project images 

message: From the drawing it would appear that the car was propelled by a primitive turbine.  The jet impacted upon the turbine and pushed it around whereas in an aeolipile the jet is just used for its reaction, akin to a rocket. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:51, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aeolipile or turbine