Talk:Elvira Arellano/Archive 2

message: According to the article, she is not a worker but instead lives inside a church that she does not leave.  Further it says that "she was arrested and convicted of using a false Social Security number to obtain employment and was sentenced to three years probation."
It seems to me that she is not a worker, and that she was not undocumented, but documented with forged documents. Why use 'undocumented worker' at all when neither word accurately applies to her? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.225.125.218 (talk • contribs) 11:28, 10 May 2007
*Why don't you sign-up for an account and come back to discuss this further. --evrik (talk) 14:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Is 'undocumented worker' accurate at all?

message: The article states "she was arrested and convicted of using a false Social Security number to obtain employment and was sentenced to three years probation."  It also says she is a fugitive. She is a criminal and is categorized as such, accurately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.225.125.218 (talk • contribs) 11:28, 10 May 2007
*Why don't you sign-up for an account and come back to discuss this further. --evrik (talk) 14:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Category:Criminals

message: It is improper to apply categories to this article that apply to the subject's son, no matter how many times he is mentioned. It would be like applying the category "Presidents of the United States" to the Karl Rove article. There is no point in edit warring over it when both participants in the dispute are incorrect. - Crockspot 17:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have created a page on Saul Arellano, in order to assist with proper categorization, in addition to making it easier to find for people who search on Saul's name, rather than his mother's name. At this point, I have just redirected it to point here, since roughly half of this page is about him rather than his mother, but perhaps we should consider moving information about Saul to that page.--Ramsey2006 17:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Using the legal brief filed on Saul's behalf, I have fleshed out this article such that there is far more information on Ms. Arellano than was prevously present. The brief can also be used to flesh out the article on Saul but I see no reason to remove any of the info about him here. User:LordPathogen19:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I really don't want to be involved in this pissing match between you two. Hopefully the Saul article will resolve the categorical problems. - Crockspot 21:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry... It is my hope about the Saul article as well... User:LordPathogen21:25, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of categories 

message: What follows is the statement of the scope of the WikiProject:Mexican-Americans from the project page:
:This project will encompass all aspects of the experience of Mexican-Americans in the United States, including culture, history, politics, business, sports, etc. It will also cover the experience of the Hispano people, the descendents of the original Spanish and Novo-Spanish settlers of the Southwest, as well. It will likewise cover the relationships between Mexican-Americans, Chicanos, Hispanos, and other ethnic groups in the United States, as well as the relationship Mexican-Americans, Chicanos, and Hispanos have with Mexico and Mexicans.
The template for the WikiProject itself reads as follows.
:Elvira Arellano falls under the scope of WikiProject Mexican-Americans, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Mexican-Americans on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to Mexican-Americans as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Mexican-Americans. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Clearly, this article is well within the stated scope on the WikiProject page, as well as the wording of the template itself. In addition, this article has long been rated as an article of Top Importance on the importance scale for the WikiProject. Accordingly, I am going to restore the WikiProject template to this talk page. In the future, editors are welcome to add their own comments to the talk page, but please do not remove legitimate content placed here by other editors. If an editor believes that the template has been placed on this talk page in error, I would suggest that the WikiProject in question be consulted to get a consensus on its removal. 
--Ramsey2006 22:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it does not. You can see that [here] LordPathogen 23:07, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ummmmmm...what you just responded to was not composed by me. It was merely copied by me from the template that you deleted as displayed on this talk page. Why are you linking to the very template that you just replied to?--Ramsey2006 01:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You wrote, "The template for the WikiProject itself reads as follows. 'Elvira Arellano falls under...'". No, the edited project template that was on this page mentions her, but not the default project template, which I linked to. So, I'm curious... why the insistence on keeping her with the Mexican-American project when she clearly is not American? After all, she already is listed with a cornucopia of other groups. Why add her to one she really does not belong to? Is there some personal reason? In response to your no doubt already formulated counter-question, I think it should be removed simply because she is not American and is accurately listed in other groups. If I did not know much about her and just came to this article/talk page, I would be rather confused as to why a "Mexican-American" is having problems with ICE... User:LordPathogenLordPathogen 02:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have edited nothing. What part of "includes but is not limited to" do you not understand? And what part of "anything else related to Mexican-Americans" (in this case, related quite literally!) do you not understand? What part of "the relationship Mexican-Americans, Chicanos, and Hispanos have with Mexico and Mexicans" do you not understand? Are you just trying to be cute?--Ramsey2006 03:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  *Sigh*, tired of trying to explain that one to you. As for "related," 1. that would pretty much allow everything to be classified under that topic. For example, I could put "White House" there because the White House website has a Spanish version as well as English. I could also put South Park on there as well since they have mentioned Mexicans before. Perhaps I should take it as literal as you have and annotate such pages accordingly. It would dillute the usefullness of the project tag for that group but if it is as you say, I would be complying with their stated goal, right? 2. Your boy Evrik is a member of that project, so the NPOV of the group is circumspect at best based on interaction with him. 3. Even members of the Mexican-American group itself have discussed the issue, with one writing "Mexican American is a distinct minority in the U.S. with its own history, culture, art, literature, scholarship, and cosmology. Good to see we see eye to eye on this.--Rockero 08:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have checked both the White House article and the South Park article, and I have found that neither one of them is currently listed as part of the WikiProject in question. If you feel that one or both should be listed, then you should bring the articles in question to their attention. I am not a part of the WikiProject, so I would probably not be the proper person to handle that.--Ramsey2006 06:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  "I could..." *sigh* User:LordPathogen06:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  How do you know that you could? That seems to be an assumption on your part. There is always a possibility that the folks in the WikiProject might find your claimed relations to be too tenuous. Neither one seems to me to be quite as closely related as a mother and her son, but on the other hand, you'll never really know until you try.--Ramsey2006 07:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Definition of "Childlike, Pathetic Attempts At Manipulation" see immediately above ---^ User:LordPathogen07:08, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Were your examples intended to be strawmen?--Ramsey2006 07:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Mexican-Americans | WikiProject:Mexican-Americans]]