Talk:Railfan

message: Bumped into this site written by a mature US railfan: http://www.3ri.com/what_is_a_railfan.htm.
Although most of the points are covered in the WP article, it is a well-written document, particularly covering the relationship between railfans and law-enforcement agencies, and might better meet the tighter requirements than many of the existing external links.  
EdJogg 13:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "What is a railfan?"

message: The list of so-called "Railfan Hotspots" is starting to take over the article.
I think at the very least it needs splitting into a separate list, but with what title?
::List of railfan hotspots
would be easy but extremely misleading (how many 'hotspots' are there on the average railfan, and what defines a 'hotspot' in this instance anyway? :o) ). <BR>Alternatively,
::List of railway locations popular with railfans
is much more accurate, if a little long-winded.
But should the list even belong in WP?  As hinted above, the very section title 'Railfan Hotspots' is misleading. And how could 'popular' be verified?  Sounds very subjective (and hence not NPOV). Are there any reference books that list these locations - and if so, wouldn't it be rather better to just provide an ISBN?  Should we just delete the list as unverifiable?
Thoughts?
EdJogg 13:10, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would tend to agree - this list should be pruned out of existence for the reasons that others have described.  It's highly POV, as it's a matter of personal preference unless we find a source substantiating it.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well Done Schuminweb. The more I think about it, some of the sites in the external links would serve this purpose and have more credibility doing so (railpictures.net etc.) But then that's another subject, the external links section is equally out of control. You're not finished with that machette yet =-) Davemeistermoab 02:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For those who wish to see this list preserved (or who simply see it as not having a place in WP), Train Spotting World is a companion wiki for railfans, and is happy to have such lists, POV or not.  There are embryo articles there, for example, on trackside dining and Railfan Hotspots is a wholly valid article to create there, and refer to here. Fiddle Faddle 08:33, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Railfan Hotspots - List Required? or severe article pruning? 

message: The Railway Magazine attempted to popularise the term railwayac without success in the earlier 20th century...  This is an incomplete comparison and I'm not sure if the 'obvious' correction early 20th century would be factually correct.  Cryptonymius 20:07, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor grammatical issue

message: "The activity of trainspotting was briefly mentioned in a passage set in a railway station, in Irvine Welsh's novel of the same name; however, it was left out of the film adaptation altogether. The novel Trainspotting and its film adaptation are not directly related to the hobby, although it may be inferred from the movie's opening scene that the title is a comment on what the author sees as the supposed pointlessness of the hobby."
- Actually, if you watch the film, there is a notorious cold turkey sequence, in which Renton looks at trains which cover the wall of the bedroom he occupied as a child. He starts hallucinating, and hears the sounds of trains. In adddition, the trailer, which will be on most DVD versions, includes Renton tied to a track, and there is also a sequence in which the boys are at a remote Highland railway station. So there you go - not mentioned directly, but still there. --MacRusgail 17:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trainspotting (the film) 

message: ... I see anorak is missing here. Isn't that an oversight, at least on the part of UK (or at least non-US) railfans? (Not a term I've ever heard used here.) +ILike2BeAnonymous 04:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speaking of pejorative terms ... 

message: Is it just my imagination, or was there once a separate trainspotting article that was clumsily wedged into this one?  I'm not so sure they shouldn't be unmerged. —Steve Summit (talk) 18:38, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  trainspotters vs. railfans in general 

message: If links to "Autism" & "Asperger's", etc, keep getting deleted, I suppose there's no point in putting up anything even more controversial, but I have to say that some of the trainspotters I've seen lurking around the end of the platform at Crewe Station look as if they should be on the Sex Offenders' Register. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.158.250.132 (talk • contribs) 05:17, October 29, 2007
:Do you have a citation that a being a railfan is more likely to make you a weirdo, than a person with 'normal' interests? If so, then that's why it keeps going missing. Wongm 11:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the railroad historical and railfanning organization meetings that I attend, all of the attendees are well-educated and successful in their careers, and the majority of them are married and have children and often have grandchildren.  Rail interests are not uncommon in the medical profession (I know one cardiologist personally who has an extensive O scale layout).  The current (December 2007) issue of Model Railroader has a cover story about Rod Stewart's model railroad and his interest in trains.  Being a railfan does not lead to any autism spectrum disorder.  Slambo (Speak) 13:12, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Not necessarily.  The same type of memorization of facts and statistics is done by sports or automobile fans. Slambo (Speak) 13:12, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Heh, I hadn't heard of some of those yet.  Thanks for making me smile today.  B-)  Aspergers is one of those topics that I'm very interested in since my son has received a positive diagnosis (his latest obsession is building with Lego bricks).  I'll take a look through my resources to see if I can find that article.  Slambo (Speak) 16:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Link 

message: I've merged the Metrophile section here per the consensus at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Metrophile. However, I spent little time editing it, as editors here are more knowledgeable about the subject than I. It appears to be a neologism and needs reliable sources if it's going to stay in this article - if they can't be found, it may need to be deleted from here as well. Tijuana Brass (talk) 23:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metrophile 

message: The safety section seems to be a maybe / could be section which is not verified. This section also claims that the BTP actively encourage spotters to report suspiscious behaviour. Surely the BTP (and other authorities) are encouraging all users of the railways to do this and therefore this doesnt warrant a special mention for spotters. Deckchair (talk) 09:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I restored this edit, as the deleted statements are quite sensible and do warrant to be mentioned. All users of the railway may be encouraged to report suspicious behaviour, but spotters just have a keener eye on the scene. LHOON (talk) 15:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: BNSF Railway released a couple videos about their program recruiting railfans to aid in security/safety issues along the railroad's right of way; the program is called Citizes for Rail Security. Slambo (Speak) 16:22, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The section as it stands it in desperate need of sources and rewriting. It is completely unjustified as it stands. Please find and add proper reliable sources for the statements included or it will be removed soon. Sorry, Gwernol 21:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Added a cite for BTP requesting co-operation from enthusiasts and re-worded sentence Deckchair (talk) 13:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Safety 

message: The following chunk was recently added to explain the origin of 'ferroequinology'. 
I have removed it here (i) because the 'references' provided are unverifiable, and (ii) because I can't be bothered to re-type it in lower case! (although I have removed the gross-est formatting issues).
:::THE ETIOLOGY OF THE ROOT TERM ITSELF 'FERROEQUINOLOGIST' IS THAT IT WAS COINED IN 1948 AT THE UNIIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA LAW SCHOOL [ref. the Old Dominion Railway Club of Richmond, Va.] BY LAW STUDENT AND LATER ATTORNEY FOR THE SOUTHERN RAILWAY ROBERT N. LOWRY TO HIS 'RAILFAN' FELLOW STUDENT EMMETT GATEWOOD, WHO LEAVING SCHOOL WAS ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN THE OLD DOMINION RAILWAY CLUB.  HE THEN MOVED TO LOS GATOS,CALIF. WHERE MR. GATEWOOD joined the Woodside Rail Club and started a newsletter that he entitled 'THE FERROEQUINOLOGIST' THAT CONTINUES TODAY.
:::BY 1968 THE TERM WAS IN SUCH GENERAL USAGE THAT IT WAS INCLUDED IN THAT YEAR'S 'LARGE EDITION' OF 'WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY.'[PERSONAL COMMUNICATION W/ MR. GATEWOOD, FEB. 1969.]
While the above may well be true -- it is certainly very plausible -- without appropriate references, such claims cannot be included in WP.
(PS - although 'etiology' (study of causes, usually medical term) could be used here, the term etymology (study of history of words) is probably more appropriate.)
EdJogg (talk) 09:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etiology (sic) of "Ferroequinology" 

message: Afaik 'rail buff' or 'railway buff' or 'train buff' are all acceptable British usage (in the sense of enthusiast); I think Brits might be surprised to see it used in the U.S. at all, and the claim to exclusive usage in the U.S. seems a bit strange.  Just a bit of a culture gap there.  'Railfan' sounds like a journalistic invention made fashionable (eg sportsfan) rather than an encyclopaedic term, but I guess that's been discussed... 'Trainspotter' meanwhile is of course completely different :) Sure that's been covered too... Hakluyt bean (talk) 22:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buff, fan, enthusiast... spotter 

message: This article in the 'The Times' (July 8, 2008) can be worked in as a reference for various bits:
How Osama bin Laden killed trainspotting
Wongm (talk) 01:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Very good find. Depressing, but a very good find nonetheless. EdJogg (talk) 12:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

text: And this Wongm (talk) 00:05, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Another from CNN Trains are life for avid 'railfans'. Wongm (talk) 10:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  More sources 

message: Removed from article (for same reasons as previously):
:Trainspotting has been associated with the mild form of autism, known as Asperger's Syndrome.
:( http://www.kidsgrowth.com/resources/articledetail.cfm?id=2165 )
This is getting a bit more tricky, BUT the author (a child psychiatrist) merely uses "trainspotting" as an example of an activity bordering on obsessive behaviour, there's no scientific basis for his statement, or new research. It is 'tricky' because the statement added to the wikipedia article is technically true, simply as a result of this person writing about it!
However, the long-standing consensus is that adding such links may encourage people to make connections (to support their views/prejudices), as the author of this has done. (Note that we have collectively objected to much more scientifically rigorous reference works in the past, and this is 'only' a column piece written for the benefit of parents of children diagnosed with Asberger's.) I think it is also worth noting that the description "the peculiarly British hobby of train spotting" is written by an American medical author for an American website. He may know about Asberger's, but what does he know about train spotting???
EdJogg (talk) 10:32, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: And again

message: The following (rather inflammatory) section was added today. I added some 'fact' tags and adjusted what text I could, but as the main accident is still under investigation (I have added a link), the second incident is not referenced, and the third paragraph is uncited, I have removed the text to here.
::;Controversy
::Railfans were thrust into the spotlight in 2008 after a commuter train crash in Los Angeles that killed 25 people and injured 135 others. Having passed through a red signal, the train's engineer, Robert M. Sanchez, reportedly sent a text message to a group of teenage railfans seconds before slamming head-on into a freight train. (Important note. The cause of the collision is still under investigation, with the main cause thought to be fatigue.)
::In Chicago, according to a report filed with the Federal Railroad Administration, Metra engineer Brian Voss permitted a 17 year old train enthusiast to operate trains carrying passengers. This came to light after the teen posted photographs of his adventures on his MySpace page.
::These events have led to concerns the that enthusiasm of railfans is becoming a threat to public safety.
Such unsubstantiated claims would not be allowed on a living person's article without adequate referencing. Once there are sufficient supporting references, I don't think there is a problem with this material being in the article.
EdJogg (talk) 09:05, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I read that there were at least three witnesses who saw the signal in Chatsworth as green before the Metrolink train passed it. (LA Times, Oct 4)  I had just read something about the Chicago incident on Friday. (WBBM, Oct 24)  As to the last paragraph, some railroaders will always be anti-railfan with reports like these only strengthening their opinions.  To counter this, do we know of any reports where railfans were considered to be the hero?  Slambo (Speak) 14:43, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Controversy" section 

message: For the time being, I'm removing the following block of text:
Those who spend most of their time on one station only are known as "stoats" or "veg". Contrasted with Stoats are "dorbs", who travel frequently from station to station, often on a particular favourite variety of train, in order to spot lines which may not run through their home vicinity. "Cranks" are particularly attracted to one type of train and make sure they see all of its workings. "Neds" concentrate on special rail activity and tend to ignore the regular happenings on the lines, and look for "gen" (information about railway workings) prior to spotting.
Most of the citation requests have been there for 3 years.  I did a cursory search for a couple of the terms in relation to the practice and could find no basis for them.  If someone more knowledgable in the subject would like to incorporate them again, please make sure you cite sources or, at the very least, provide some explanation for why each term came to be used.  Technically, they'd still require citation, but some sort of  'oh that makes sense'  story would go a long way towards justifying their inclusion until such citation could be provided.--K10wnsta (talk) 03:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, odd one. My dad always refers to himself as being a "crank", but doesn't do any of the above - he's just what you might call a railfan or an enthusiast. He likes his trains, that's all. Actually, the whole reason I'm reading the talk page is that I was slightly puzzled not to see any reference to "crank" anywhere on the page, and wondered if was in fact just my dad's idiolect... Brickie (talk) 20:52, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the lingo... 

message: This topic asserts that the terms grizzers and gricers are in use in the USA, and have specialized meanings, but fails to follow up on this by explaining their use in the USA.  The latter term is mentioned later, as in use in Britain for complete riding enthusiasts (though other sites say the term is used for all rainfans, not just complete riding enthusiasts).  But it doesn't mention whether it has a similar meaning in the USA.  The former term isn't mentioned at all.  This sentence should be deleted unless specific cited descriptions of the terms as used in the USA can be added. StevenDoerfler (talk) 17:09, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "in the USA they are known as grizzers or gricers, according to their speciality (see below)" 

message: There was a reference to Connex restricting photos in Melbourne.
Connex were replaced by Metro Trains, so the ref was out of date.
In updating, I removed two links:
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11310032-0-asc-s0.htm
http://forums.vicsig.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1791
Since both referred to Connex and both were basically forum entries. 
Luckydog429 (talk) 21:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Melbourne Trains

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: A question arose in Talk:Digital manipulation in railway photography as to whether that article ought to exist at all, with a consensus that it should not. I proposed that the proper implementation is to merge it, along with the photography section of this article, into a new article for Railway photography. Is this a good idea? Jim.henderson (talk) 18:50, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not a matter for this page, which is for discussing improvements to the article Railfan. It should be at a more general discussion page, such as WT:RAIL. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:42, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photography article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Kind of strange: this article, while some 6,000 words long and at least 14 years old, has none, although I know no country which would not feature this hobby. I even met a trainspotter from Kiribati. Poor guy need a lot of travelling.
BTW, you might consider the existence of this page :) as well as this one. There are others.
A few days ago I tried to change it, creating a Polish version. Modest, 25x shorter, with just the basic info, such as contained in the polish version. Five minutes later it was removed as "orphan", without an attempt to contact me (against wiki rules, isn't it?). I prepared a background text, 10 times longer than my article itself, justyfying its need of existence. No answer, ever. Tried again, article removed again. Only then I checked the discussion of this wiki purity guardian. He seems to be removing at least one page every month, never providing an explanation, never answering the author's questions or complaints.
Today, at last, I noticed the existence of this Polish Wiki article. A few lines saying nothing, not even mentioning the existence of a strong community in Poland or the range of our activities. The latter, by the way, is far broader than, no offense, in the UK or particularly US, when you, American Railfans, seem to concentrate on heritage steam and financing Acela or California High Speed.
Well, I intend now to re-edit, or rather replace its content with mine. Yes, again, there shall hardly be sources to quote, but I ensure you I know what I am doing - I have been trainspotting for 54 years now, my first 12-hours-long trip alone to the Warsaw Central Station with ma baby camera when I was six. Yet I expect a strong opposition of this piastu guy and would like to ask if you can offer some support... There is no appeal here in Poland, the official Polish wiki twitter account dead since June 2018.
Last remark: the name, the title. The current one in the Polish wiki says nothing. No, we do not call ourselves "trainspotters". Never did. It was always "Maniak Kolejowy", i.e. "Rail Maniac", what may be considered offensive. It is not, and still, we no longer use the word: Polish maniacs, as one of few railfan communities in the world, created and adopted a widely used short form "MK".
Should I, can I then change the TITLE of the article? How? How do I add interlanguage links? The beautiful help pages in English lead to s dead end, to an inxeistent item. The Polish ones are written in a language only the author may understand.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by KrzysztofLeski (talk • contribs) 13:39, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the English Wikipedia. The policies and other practices of the Dutch, Swedish and Polish Wikipedias are entirely outside our control. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:56, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interlanguage links and Poland 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:52, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Hello, I have been working on a new article about trainspotters as I felt the topic needed further information which wasn’t covered in the current railfans article and couldn’t easily be wedged in. While ‘railfan’ is an umbrella term which covers trainspotting I don’t think the topic and its significance in British culture can be done justice without a seperate article. Please have a look at the draft article here and make/suggest any improvements: Draft:Trainspotter Wikociewie (talk) 09:24, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seperate trainspotting article