Talk:List of Hungarian Americans

message: Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for current discussion of a potential policy to apply to all ethnicity lists on Wikipedia, including this one. JackO'Lantern 20:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethnicity lists discussion

message: Are both quite hungarian.  I moved them up from the Other category into the Scientist category. Yes, they aren't cited and should be, but I'm confused as to why those two were removed when none of the other myriad of uncited exampled were left untouched.  I put them back.  Acornwithwings 05:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Edward Teller and Johnny von Neumann...

message: This list refers to :Hungarian Americans, which in turn mentions :Hungarians.  The latter article discusses Hungarians as members of the Magyar ethnic group.  Is this list supposed to be limited to Magyars or is it to encompass American people and their descendants who were born in the territory of the country called Hungary, regardless of ethnic group?
Hmains 21:42, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  who goes on this list?  

message: Can someone please explain how Elie Wiesel is Hungarian? He is not an ethnic Hungarian, he spoke Yiddish at home with his family, the town where he was born was part of the Kingdom of Romania at the time. If you have read his book "Night" he makes a clear distinction in that he refers to the Hungarian gendarmerie who deport him and his family to the ghettoes as "the Hungarians." If he were Hungarian himself he would not refer to a group of people of the same ethnicity in that way, would he? His only connection to being Hungarian is speaking the language, well, he also speaks German, French, Hebrew, and Romanian, why not list him as German-American, French-American, Hebrew-American and Romanian-American as well? --67.149.150.252 (talk) 04:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elie Wiesel? 

message: Please do not engage in massive blanking; thank you for this courtesy. Badagnani (talk) 19:09, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please source this article.  Unsourced entries should be removed. Resolute 20:54, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is well sourced. Individuals who don't have a source listed generally have their Hungarian ethnicity discussed in their own WP articles. Badagnani (talk) 21:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't source wikipedia with wikipedia. Bulldog123 19:23, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Massive blanking 

message: Blanking of Mark Knopfler here (despite the fact that the Mark Knopfler article states that he is of Hungarian ancestry). Badagnani (talk) 23:57, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: But what makes him in any way an American and whom has ever referred to him in a source as a "Hungarian American" ? Peripitus (Talk) 00:09, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

text: You THOUGHT he was a naturalised (spelled with an S, since the subject is British) American, even though there is nothing in the article that says it? You say you have been following his music since the early 80's, and you didn't know he was British...? Did you not read the article, where no catergory states he is a US citizen, and see that he lives in Chelsea, London? Lastly, even if Mark Knopfler did naturalise, what is the basis of including his brother? You need to seriously check your facts before editing anything else into this article. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:08, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blanking of [[Mark Knopfler]] 

message: On all such articles I remove names that have no citation and no wp article.  They do not meet the long stated inclusion criteria for the article.  Editor who adds them need to follow the rules. Hmains (talk) 05:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What rules?  Your rules?  Are you kidding? Viriditas (talk) 09:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Redlinks are not mandated to be removed from WP articles, but may in fact be beneficial in that they spur the creation of articles on truly notable individuals. Blanking those names first rather than discussing them first, so we can improve the article, isn't helpful. Badagnani (talk) 05:33, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Steve Erdody is probably notable (Grammy winner), but otherwise I agree with the removals, that wasn't a mindless mass blanking. Squash Racket (talk) 07:16, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it was a mindless mass blanking, and there is no better description of the edit.  That's exactly what it was.  None of the information was challenged, none of it was controversial, and none of it was verified or checked by the removing editors. Viriditas (talk) 09:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

text: You are right, he should mention this on the talk page before deleting anything. Squash Racket (talk) 07:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how undo would be a good idea.  The integrity of these lists depends on the people being of the nationality indicated and being notable.  If they have a WP article and the article gives their nationality, that is OK; otherwise, if citations showing nationality and notability, that is OK; both is OK also.  If this is not done, then that opens this list and all others like it open to mindless attacks by those who want to get rid of these lists altogether.  This came up in previous deletion attempt discussions.  The lists must be properly maintained to save them. Hmains (talk) 22:19, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That argument can be made about anything and everyone.  Red links should not be removed from lists and articles without good reason.  And there is no hurry to edit war your chosen version into the article.  Essentially, you are engaging in Ben Tre logic, and that doesn't hold water. Viriditas (talk) 00:44, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:V is very clear.  If the information cannot be verified, it may be removed.  The burden of evidence is then upon anyone who wants to restore the material to provide proper references to verify the content. --Ronz (talk) 03:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: removal of uncited material with no wp article 

message: is unhelpful to our article and project (as this editor has been requested dozens of times). See . It's best if we take a different tack and accord serious discussion prior to engaging such large, insistent, and repeated deletions. Doing so will bring us closer to the ethos of our founders, as a maximally collaborative and collegial project. Badagnani (talk) 15:10, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  WP:V is clear, as are WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF, WP:TALK, WP:BRD.  Please join the other editors here in respecting Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.  Thanks! --Ronz (talk) 17:07, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Great.  So anytime you're willing to actually try following those policies and guidelines, please do so. --Ronz (talk) 17:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blanking without prior careful, thoughtful, and deliberate discussion 

message: This whole thing started with :User:Bulldog123 removing content of this article to try to conform to his goal of making the article ONLY contain first generation Hungarian Americans and NOT ANY other generations.  He even renamed the article to match this re-purposing goal after all his deletions--a rename which I asked and obtained reversal on.  Now with a bunch of comments by other editors, few of whom seem to have actually read the history of this article but just read other editor's comments, the editors who did not want these mass deletions and article re-purposing of Bulldog123 to happen are the ones being accused of doing what Bulldog123 actually did!  Incredible.  Such as waste of words and time.  What is the point of all this other than have the opportunity to write bad words about other editors and pursue old grudges?  The discussion has little to do with this article, as such.  This article is just like all the other fooian-American lists: it contains both first and other generations of Hungarian Americans, referencing the :Hungarian American article which discusses all generations--just like the other fooian American articles.  Can editors discuss this without anger and outrage and just stick to the
article(s)? Hmains (talk) 02:47, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I find what's incredible is that after over a year of explaining to Hmains how to correctly source a List of X-Americans, he still thinks my goal was to make the article contain only first-generation Hungarians. I don't care how many generations they are, but a source saying "his mom was Hungarian" does not make the person a second-generation Hungarian-American. Learn already. And no, the whole thing did not start with me, people have been battling these lists for half a decade. Bulldog123 19:03, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Yes, we can, should, and must. Badagnani (talk) 02:50, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, any chance Andor Szentivanyi is going to be added back into the article? Viriditas (talk) 09:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Is he notable enough for the list? I see he doesn't have his own wiki article, should that matter and should red link entries be ok? Can you provide citations that verify he is of Hungarian descent? Lots of questions I know, sorry :) --Tom (talk) 13:09, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: ps, sorry, just read article page where it says person must have their own article, was that added recently and is that the consensus? I would probably favor that so folks could click on the article and read more, anyways, --Tom (talk) 13:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't say that.  It says they should have an article or references, but that was something Hmains added, I believe.  I don't really care one way or another.  All I know, is that Andor Szentivanyi, one of the most notable Hungarian Americans in medicine, was removed from this list.  I'm sorry that you aren't familiar with him, but he meets and exceeds all the requirements.  Sources aren't the problem.  If someone had merely requested them to begin with, which is normal procedure, they would have been provided.  We don't delete content merely because it lacks sources.  That has never been the sole criterion for removal. Viriditas (talk) 13:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now, the article page says the person "must" have a Wiki article, again, I don't agree or disagree with that, just noting it. If this person is notable, a page should be created with citations it seems. Anyways, I don't feel that strongly about this either way, good luck. --Tom (talk) 14:45, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, it doesn't say that.  Please read the entire paragraph. :) Viriditas (talk) 21:52, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I apologize, I stand corrected. They must have an article OR must have references showing they are Hungarian American AND are notable. Good luck on the last point :) Anyways, no biggie. Sorry again, --Tom (talk) 22:38, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem.  As I mentioned above, Andor Szentivanyi's notability has already been established and references proving he is Hungarian American are easy to find.  My point was, we don't delete list entries merely because they don't have sources or an article.  The process is to tag the information if there is a problem or to use the talk page, none of which seems to have been done by the people hounding Badagnani's contribution list and blanket reverting his edits.  Those people are the same editors who simultaneously started an RFC against him and tried to provoke him into edit warring and incivility. Viriditas (talk) 04:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Confusion is complete

message: A number of the editors here seem unfamiliar with the basic guideline for lists, WP:LIST.  Obviously, we're having a disagreement on the basic inclusion criteria.  My own concerns are that whatever criteria is decided, this list can be maintained.  Again, I think it would be helpful to determine if there are any GA lists similar to this that we can follow. --Ronz (talk) 17:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't make up your own criteria though. You can only have a criteria that's reflective of the title. e.g.,  List of people of Hungarian descent - which people confuse for this list all the time.  Bulldog123 19:19, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: WP:Lists

message: Discussion removed here. Badagnani (talk) 22:41, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion removed 

message: Clearly nobody gets it (which is amazing after all this time). But since nobody here, as far as I can tell, is illiterate, it must be that they pretend not to get it. Otherwise, I don't get it. These lists are in a perpetual unencyclopedic hell - where new users will continually re-add people without the correct references, or correct justifications of notability. There have already been a few mass Afds for List of X-Americans, most that ended in no-consensus and a few that have been deleted but then overturned - again through a 'no consensus.' 
I'm suggesting a more definitive gauge of opinion by opening another AfD that would exclude anyone who participated in these discussions. Meaning me, Hmains, Ronz, etc... Bulldog123 19:16, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another mass AfD "without-the-regulars" might be the only solution 

message: Is there any sensible reason to include Joaquin and River Phoenix, but not their sisters Liberty, Rain & Summer, and their mother Arlyn? Liberty seems not to have an article, but the others do. 82.141.94.123 (talk) 03:56, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Now Liberty has also an article... 212.50.203.198 (talk) 18:01, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phoenix family 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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