Talk:Every Nation Churches & Ministries/Maranatha

message: 1. Theology:
:a. Maranatha Campus Ministries (MCM) was criticized for not having a clear statement of the Trinity in a 1984 report by an ad hoc committee comprised of James Bjornstad, Brian Onken (representing Christian Research Institute), Steve Cannon, Ronald Enroth, Karen Hoyt (representing Spiritual Counterfeits Project), and Gordon Lewis
::EN believes in the Trinity, incorporates that doctrine in their statement of faith, and teaches a lesson on the Trinity in the Theology 2 course of its bible school. (ref: EN Statement of Faith; Theology 2, Year 2, ENLI curriculum)
:b. MCM was criticized by the same ad hoc committee for faulty methods of  biblical interpretation
::EN believes in the authority of Scripture (sola Scriptura) and teaches exegesis at a layperson level in the Spiritual Disciplines course in the first year of its bible school, ENLI; and teaches the formal study of Hermeneutics in its Schools of Ministry.
:(ref: Spiritual Disciplines and Hermeneutics, ENLI curriculum)
2. Controlling discipleship:
:a. MCM was criticized for controlling discipleship and, according to a 1984  Christianity Today article, members were “required to submit their lives to shepherds who made decisions for them.”
::EN unequivocally rejects these kind of controlling practices, and has adopted an “official discipleship policy” which specifically states that it will not allow “practices that are controlling, coercive or intrusive, or that violate Biblical principles, the priesthood of the believer and the disciple-making principles,” including the following:
::ii.	We are called to uphold Scripture and provide godly counsel and leadership while reinforcing the God-given right and responsibility of every individual to follow his or her own conscience and make his or her own decisions.
::iii.	We do not require anyone in the disciple-making process to follow any mentor's advice.
:::(ref: Discipleship Policy on EN website)
::In reference to his experience in Maranatha, Rice Broocks wrote in his book, “Every Nation in Our Generation” (p. 48 & 114, used with permission) that: “Bad experiences can also sensitize us in many different ways. In a positive light, they can make us more aware of what not to do the next time. This is so critical when it comes to handling the powerful truths of Scripture. Matters like faith, spiritual authority, and spiritual gifts must be handled with care. By experiencing extremes in any of these areas, it makes you aware of the caution and boundaries that need to be observed when putting these important principles into practice.” He further states that “we must always remember the boundaries we have in ministering to anyone. These boundaries are primarily in the areas of decision-making and matters of conscience. After we share the Word with others, it is up to them to decide whether or not to obey. It is also important to distinguish between those things that are biblical commands and those that are areas of conscience.” 
3. Courtship and Dating:
:a. MCM prohibited dating and, according to the Christianity Today article, “marriages of staff members were subject to Maranatha's entire board of elders.”
::EN has no official policy on courtship and dating, does not prohibit courtship or dating, and clearly states in its Discipleship Policy that it is the “right and responsibility of every individual to make his or her own decision.” (ref: Discipleship Policy on EN website )
:(ref for all MCM statements: References to a 1984 article which appeared in Christianity Today and the 1984 report of an ad hoc committee on Maranatha as cited in an article posted by the Christian Research Institute entitled, “[Bob Weiner’s Plans Unclear a Year After Maranatha Disbands]”)
Thelma BowlenTalk 08:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Specific Teachings and Practices of MCM that EN renounces

message: I wonder if Thelma's had a chance to look at the information of corporate manuvering I cited earlier ... just in case it got lost in the shuffle, it's right here and here.  Plus, the info on the Lawrence church is a biggie ... as jbolden mentioned on the main page, there's enough evidence to state at the very least that Every Nation's entire American organization came from Maranatha. Blueboy96 04:33, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: My question for Thelma

message: We are okay with the current content in the Links to Maranatha Section, however, there are some redundancies as well as some missing citations which we would like to clean up.  We propose the following for the first paragraph:
:Some of Every Nation's ministers and ministries have past ties to Maranatha Campus Ministries, a controversial Charismatic organization from the 1980s. Every Nation has gone to great lengths to disavow Maranatha's more controversial practices and teaching and has specifically repudiated any practices and teachings that were:"controlling, coercive, or intrusive, or that violate biblical principles (or) the priesthood of the believer. [20] At an institutional level Every Nation unequivocally rejects the excessive teachings and practices of MCM, specifically: controlling discipleship, authoritarian leadership, and theological mysticism. Steve Murrell asserts that, "In my post-Maranatha ministry, I have diligently and prayerfully tried to keep these three deadly viruses out of my life and ministry. " Rice Broocks, Phil Bonasso and Steve Murrell, who had been active as campus ministers in Maranatha in the 1980’s, fully supported the dissolution of MCM in 1989, after which the majority of its churches changed their names and continued to function as local churches  . Some joined Vineyard, Foursquare Gospel, or a variety of other denominations and networks. Others merged with local churches, dissolved or became independent. Today there are over 400 Every Nation churches worldwide, of which approximately 15 (or less than 4%) were formerly Maranatha churches. In these 15 churches, staff and legal incorporation as well as physical plant was often retained [21]
Thelma BowlenTalk 09:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Blueboy any objection to the extra quote and the extra citation + clean up?  jbolden1517Talk 00:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about this--slightly more detailed ...
Some of Every Nation's ministers and ministries have past ties to Maranatha Campus Ministries, a controversial Charismatic organization from the 1980s.  Some former Every Nation members' research into the organization has led them to discover corporate links between Maranatha and Every Nation.  At its inception, Every Nation incorporated a large number of Filipino churches led by Murrell, as well as at least eight churches in the United States (one of which has since left the organization).  It also incorporated Maranatha's former outreach to athletes, Champions for Christ.
Several former members claim to have seen widespread instances of Maranatha-style practices and teachings, albeit in slightly watered-down form, on several online forums and blogs.  They also point to a large amount of corporate activity that appeared to involve Maranatha after it dissolved, specifically involving a Florida-incorporated body that still has valid certificates of authority in Texas and North Carolina.  Based on these practices, and the corporate evidence, they contend that Every Nation is a revived Maranatha.  Although the corporate links between Every Nation and Maranatha are largely beyond dispute, proving that Every Nation is Maranatha requires proof of spiritual continuity as well, which is somewhat more difficult to prove.
For its part, Every Nation maintains that it is a completely separate organization from Maranatha. On the other hand, it has recently acknowledged that some of its ministers (including Broocks, Bonasso and Murrell) have past ties to Maranatha.  It has gone to several lengths to disavow Maranatha's more extreme practices and teachings, many of which resulted in leaders exercising strict control over members' lives. It specifically rejects any practices and teachings that are "controlling, coercive, or intrusive, or that violate biblical principles (or) the priesthood of the believer."  It also contends that it does not condone any form of "controlling discipleship, authoritarian leadership, or theological mysticism"--practices that were harshly criticized in an ad hoc committee's report on Maranatha in 1983. Every Nation claims to have spent the last couple of years pruning out what Murrell regards as the "deadly viruses" of Maranatha-style practices.  
While acknowledging Broocks, Bonasso and Murrell's Maranatha pasts, Every Nation contends that they fully supported Maranatha's dissolution in 1989.  They also claim that most of the Maranatha chruches changed their names and continued to function as local churches.  Every Nation also stresses that Bob Weiner, founder and driving force behind Maranatha, is in no way a part of the organization.--Blueboy96 17:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I've bolded the weasel words in your passage.  You also have no evidence for the "recently" issues.  I'm thinking of bring Factnet in as a source as the only way to get rid of the weasel words.  How do you all refer yourself "factnet" or...?  jbolden1517Talk 02:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, this any better?
It is a matter of some debate both inside and outside of the movement as to the degree and nature of continuity which exists between Every Nation and Maranatha Campus Ministries, a controversial Charismatic organization from the 1980s.  Research into the organization by one former member reveals virtually uncontestable corporate links between Maranatha and Every Nation.  Several of Every Nation's leaders and ministers--including Broocks, Bonasso and Murrell--were also part of Maranatha.  At its inception, Every Nation incorporated a large number of Filipino churches led by Murrell, as well as at least eight churches in the United States (one of which has since left the organization).  It also incorporated Maranatha's former outreach to athletes, Champions for Christ.  Although Every Nation keeps these historical links in very low profile--presumably because of Maranatha's bad reputation in the Pentecostal/Charismatic realm--it is clearly a direct descendant of Maranatha.
For its part, Every Nation maintains that it is a completely separate organization from Maranatha. On the other hand, it recently added an "FAQ" section to its Website in which it acknowledges that some of its ministers and ministries have past ties to Maranatha.  It has gone to several lengths to disavow Maranatha's more extreme practices and teachings, many of which resulted in leaders exercising strict control over members' lives. It specifically rejects any practices and teachings that are "controlling, coercive, or intrusive, or that violate biblical principles (or) the priesthood of the believer."  It also contends that it does not condone any form of "controlling discipleship, authoritarian leadership, or theological mysticism"--practices that were harshly criticized in an ad hoc committee's report on Maranatha in 1983. Every Nation claims to have spent the last couple of years pruning out what Murrell regards as the "deadly viruses" of Maranatha-style practices.  
While acknowledging Broocks, Bonasso and Murrell's Maranatha pasts, Every Nation contends that they fully supported Maranatha's dissolution in 1989.  They also claim that most of the Maranatha chruches changed their names and continued to function as local churches.  Every Nation also stresses that Bob Weiner, founder and driving force behind Maranatha, is in no way a part of the organization.
However, some former members claim to have seen widespread instances of Maranatha-style practices and teachings, albeit in slightly watered-down form, on several online forums and blogs.  For instance, one former member claims that in her church, rebellion was a sign of a "rebellious" or "Jezebel" spirit and has revealed evidence of a large amount of corporate activity that appeared to involve Maranatha after it dissolved, specifically involving a Florida-incorporated body that still has valid certificates of authority in Texas and North Carolina.  Another former member claims that a campus outreach of a major Every Nation church used deceptive recruiting methods, a large amount of guilt-tripping, and hectored people about converting to Christianity. Based on these practices, and the corporate evidence, they and other former members contend that Every Nation is a revived Maranatha.  Although the corporate links between Every Nation and Maranatha are largely beyond dispute, proving that Every Nation is Maranatha requires proof of spiritual continuity as well, which is somewhat more difficult to prove.--Blueboy96 16:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tightening up the Links to Maranatha paragraph

message: Since we are now discussing structure and have agreement on the list of churches I'm going to move onto the 3 out of 4 flagship churches issues.  
* Thelma does Every Nation have flagship churches?
* Blueboy can you provide a cite for the list of flagship churches you are using?
jbolden1517Talk 11:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's relatively easy.  Bethel is Rice Broocks' church, Palos Verdes is (or was) Phil Bonasso's church, Metro MorningStar is Brett Fuller's church and KPIC is Ron Lewis' church (although "Pastor Ron" is no longer senior pastor, it's pretty much an open secret that he holds the real power).  All of them are members of EN's Apostolic Team.  As you saw earlier, KPIC, Palos Verdes and Metro are all former Maranatha churches, and Bethel has a board made up either entirely or almost entirely of former Maranatha pastors.Blueboy96 17:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well first off are you defining flagship to be where Apostolic team run churches?  Does EN define them that way?  jbolden1517Talk 00:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Every nation has no designation of a "flag ship" church any more than a state has a designation of a "flag ship" school, but it is well known and should not be contested which churches these are.   Here is a viable definition: 1. Run by a member of the apostolic team 2. Among the largest in the movement.  3.  Responsible for planting a number of other churches.    For this reason they are the influential churches in the movment.  Churches which meet those criteria include,  1.  Bethel in Nashville  2. KPIC in NC  3.  Metro Morningstar in VA 4. Steve Murrell's church in the Phillipenes.  The church in LA was very small due to the particularly authoritarian elements, and therefore would not meet  criterion #2.Anonymou 21:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm ... somewhere I remember that EN Studio City (Dave Polus' church) was a Bonasso plant.  You mean that Bonasso was nothing more than a paper tiger? --05:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The term is not in use in EN.  I believe it was employed in the article as a way of pointing out that simply counting churches is not a way to measure the real Maranatha influence. They could be called, "key", "anchor", "flagship" or some other useful term.  These churches exert much more influence than a small church plant in the middle of nowhere, and so their history should be given more weight in the discussion.  That is the fact that should not be disputed, regardless of how one interprets that history. Anonymou 03:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd also add that these churches are usually where major changes first take place.  For instance, KPIC and Bethel were the first places where VLI became ENLI. --Blueboy96 05:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  flagship churches