Talk:Mensalão scandal

message: I suggest the removal of any "info" from brazilian press like "Veja" and "Folha de São Paulo". Is FUD info, NOT proved, based on biased people like Jefferson. We have a "war" here because the opposition partys are trying to get power back at any cost, and here the press are all biased to PSDB/PFL side.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.189.118.10 (talk) 19:37, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazilian press and TV cannot be trusted on this case 

message: I am afraid that the User:Sanmartin is "working" for the  Workers Party...
What you American and European think about it? [brazilian ip]
:Can't you shut up?! Who are YOU working for, then?! I'm a brazilian, from Campinas, São Paulo. I've no relationship with Worker's Party and I do not admit personal attacks! I'm just one of the Brazilians who does NOT support this white coup d'état that is being made by Brazilian Media: Veja, Folha de São Paulo, Globo, O Estado de São Paulo, Época, Istoé, which prefer histerical attacks than offer a clear sequence of the facts. See what happened in Venezuela, two years ago? Can you - in this talk page - present a single proof on Cash-for-Vote, instead of attacking me, please?! 15:49, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
I live in Campinas too. And I repeat what this other guy said. You are "working" for the Workers Party. Probably you are from Unicamp. You are living in another reality talking nonsense like  coup d'état and a Brazilian media conspiration.  International media is part of this "consipiration" too? Am I part of this conspiration? Is Wikimedia  part of this conspiration? Socialist parties like P-SOL are part of this "conspiration"? There is a clear sequence of facts. You are the only one who is refusing to see.
Hey! What the other guys from Wikipedia say about this guy?
Ad hominem is forbidden on Wikipedia. You are free to disagree with Sanmartin's edits, but please keep the discussion based on the article. Starghost 18:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sanmartin 

message: Maybe a mediator out of Brazil (who is not a Brazilian, and who is not for and against the Wokers Party) could resolve the disputes here. --Carlosar 12:49, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Sugestion

message: I'm from Brazil, watching TV and reading newspaper everyday, and the article it's OK. Maybe because envolvement of Worker's Party the things are strong for us, Brazilians accustomed see PT talk about socialism/revolutionism, loving Cuba/Guevara and act without the minimum of responsibility (also the President) now with the subject is corruption. --Mateusc 20:48, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  My opnion 

message: I am NOT Brazilian and still don't know as many of the details as I should... I have worked a fair amount on this article and the articles of the associated figures involved, and I am tired of this fight over the POV tag. I think it is very important that this article is good and fair and we should not underestimate its importance and urgency. It has a very high Google rank for searches like "mensalão" and I would imagine many people around the world are reading these pages to understand what is happening in Brazil. San Martin, Carlos, Mateusc, let's all make a list of what needs to be done to the article to make it fair and complete. Please add to the list maybe in order of priority and sign your name.
# Clear language that everything is an allegation; in cases where there are disputes Tfine80 21:33, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Maybe we should wait until this get investigated more in Congress... Is this an issue? Tfine80 23:20, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  The irony, San Martin, is that now it mostly describes the history of the event. If we do it like this (which I am not opposed to) the POV battles may only get more intense.  It will need to be constructed carefully. Tfine80 23:20, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

text:  I also think that it currently sort of slanders these businesses by insinuation.  I don't think it is a problem as long as every business involved is listed and the allegations are explained. Tfine80 23:20, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

text:  Maybe we should have a list of the members of CPI and information about the reports and links to them. Tfine80 23:20, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

text:  This is a good idea, and I would support it if others agree.  Vote-for-cash does imply certain things and the scandal is much more complicated. From bingo to the post office to now this restaurant thing. Tfine80 23:20, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

text:  I desagree. The main focus of this article is the Vote-for-cash scandal, and everybody says Vote-for-cash scandal, and the suject is better known as the Vote for cash scandal. --Carlosar 13:28, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enough of the POV fights 

message: Here I'm back again.
I've deleted the following text:
::Francisco Collazzos - Agent of international public relations for FARC. Arrested by Federal Police in August 24, 2005, accused of being in the country illegally. Documents in the archives of the Agência Brasileira de Inteligência (Abin) that Collazzos announced on Abril 13, 2002, during a party with key members of leftist parties at a house in Brasília, that FARC would give a five million dollar donation to Lula's Presidential campaign in 2002. The Agency claims that these documents are forgeries. A Commission of Investigation presided by the Workers' Party concluded on March 17, 2005 that the charge was empty. Colombia asked for the extradiction of Collazzos, but members of the PT, PSOL, PCdoB, and the PCB have opposed this.
There are few hits for Francisco Collazzos. However, Veja published this accusation, indeed. But it is excessive unrealiable, since it has not been proved and the proofs Veja claimed to have were qualified as "forgeries" by ABIN, that supposedly created the documents.
This paragraph can be kept, however. Just revert me, I don't mind. But I think it is just bad to Veja's and this article's reliability. José San Martin 18:13, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collazzo deleted 

message: :This page is 74 kilobytes long. This may be longer than is preferable; see article size.
There is an exaustive cronology and several exaustive lists of people involved that are duplicated in their own entries. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, so, please, some cleanup is in order. I'll be adding some tags as a suggestion within the next hours. ≈ Ekevu talk contrib 17:31, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup needed 

message: Someone here, as Brazilian, complain that José Adalberto Vieira da Silva dollars founded in their pants are the most symbolic Mensalão event being very explored by brazilian media and need a special section
:That's hardly encyclopedic, and not really emphasized since it happened. That is not the most symbolic Mensalão event--not yet anyways. If you feel otherwise, try to find references in the media recently to support a section about it.--Dali-Llama 20:04, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: José Simão referred to it this week. He said the episode was the "star of the mensalão." A.Z. 03:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dollars in the [[pants]]! 

message: The first line says the subject "dominated" politics. A.Z. 18:21, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: AZ, honestly I appreciate the effort, but you have to stop tagging things and start fixing them. If you tag an article about one instance, the same amount of edits it would take for you to tag it, would be equal to removing the peacock term. If it's pervasive and requires a lot of effort, then I agree, use the tag. But one instance of the word you could've fixed it yourself.--Dali-Llama 19:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I appreciate that you appreciate my effort, but I would need various referenced verifiable facts to appropriately substitute the sentence "The Mensalão scandal (...) dominated the politics of Brazil in 2005." I see that you simply removed the phrase "dominated the politics of Brazil in 2005", without making the effort to show that it dominated the politics of Brazil in 2005. Perhaps this was an improvement, perhaps someone else could have found a better way to solve the problem. A.Z. 19:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The current sentence, "The Mensalão scandal (...) threatened to bring down the government of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva," is vague; weasely; peacocky; telling, not showing; unencyclopedic; unverifiable in general; synthesis; and original research. A.Z. 19:58, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, this article outright sucks and needs a re-write.--Dali-Llama 21:48, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As do most articles. Eventually someone will re-write them. A.Z. 22:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peacock 

message: It was a symbol of the crisis, the fall of "honest marxist" stereotype, was highly publicized by press. Need a more strong and featured citation per POV.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.78.92.223 (talk) 20:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dollars on underpants 

message: This site: [Livro "O Chefe"] has an online book writen about this scandal.This other site: [Chefe's downloadl] has the way to do the download of this book.Agre22 (talk) 14:18, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Online book about this scandal

message: Who is Claus Roxin that he gets a "See also" mention with no explanation - here or on his page - about this affair? Is someone trying to suggest he is involved in this, without actually saying it? If he is involved, we should come out and say so with a source, otherwise an explanation would be nice. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 05:38, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: it doesn't follow but I agree, I see no explanation for his inclusion, which could be as innocuous as authorship of a work on international banking Elinruby (talk) 22:19, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Appears to have been deleted already or I would consider doing it myself. It is true that having one's name on a page about about a scandal could be construed as an accusation, although this is not necessarily the relationship. In case I missed it, this is a second to the motion that the reference be explained or else deleted Elinruby (talk) 23:31, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  German dude 

message: I believe that it may be relevant that some legislator or his wife may have been seen near this bank but I do not see the significance of this explained anywhere Elinruby (talk) 22:16, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banco Rurale Comment 

message: note to self -- I changed brother to fellow and possibly was wrong -- there was an aide to one deputy who was the brother of another deputy. I think. Check this. Elinruby (talk) 22:35, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: straighted out who is whose brother based on pt.wikipedia -- still need to make sure we have the money in the right guy's underpants. Elinruby (talk) 23:31, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  brother/fellow Reply 

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I have just modified 2 external links on Mensalão scandal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051201154936/http://www2.camara.gov.br/conheca/eticaedecoro/index.html to http://www2.camara.gov.br/conheca/eticaedecoro/index.html
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: He belongs in the article because he was part of this, but there is a whole paragraph about his radical past, apparently in an effort to discredit him. Since Brazil was a military dictatorship at the time it doesn't really do that in my eyes, but more to the point, if he is this elaborately introduced (accurately btw) then we need more about his involvement with this scandal. This is the path I think we should take, but I am at the moment unable to do so, therefore am noting The thought here. Elinruby (talk) 04:28, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long Dirceu bio