Talk:Queen Mother of the West

message: "Her role with respect to immortality and everlasting happiness probably arose from her origin as the goddess of fertility, and may be related to the West Asian fertility goddess Astarte. A fictional account of her meeting up with King Mu of Zhou Dynasty, as part of his journey to the west meeting various exotic characters, may be related to the story of King Solomon and Queen Sheba, both derived from ancient tales of Egypt/Babylon. "
:This speculation seriously smells like fringe scholarship or Neo-pagan ecumenism; please cite both theories.  I would challenge the former statement, at the least, as being historically overwhelmed by the centrality of Her theology in relation to Daoist (and earlier fangshi) teachings as paradisical psychopomp.  At any rate, it is irrelevant to Xi Wangmu as She is worshipped by Daoist clergy and believers in any period.  I must argue for deletion on the grounds of fringe bias.--Aunty Entity 05:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: In English scholarship, 'Xi wangmu' is rarely used. Before seeing this article, I had never even heard of this term. The English translation of 'Queen Mother of the West' is. This can be seen in the following google results:
Google Books:
*'Queen Mother of the West'  = 406 results
*'Xi wangmu'  = 28 results
Google:
*'Queen Mother of the West'  = 15,300 results
*'Xi wangmu'  = 621 results
It seems pretty clear that 'Queen Mother of the West' is more often used, at least using google, and that the article name should be changed. Google Books, which in my opinion is the way to determine word usage, also shows a great preference to the english term. Zeus1234 03:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved the page, per the reasons given above. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:16, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move to Queen Mother of the West

message: I don't agree it should be "Queen Mother of the West"
on the basis of google search results.  I also don't agree that
the title of a Goddess should be used in place of her pinyin spelling.
To support this you will find on Wikipedia that Guan Yin is used and not
her titles or english spellings. You do not see it as
"Kuan Yin" or her English title of "Goddess of Mercy".
Also the page on Jesus is just Jesus and not "King of Israel" which
is one of His many titles.
The correct listing I think should be the pinyin spelling of Her name with out
the tones just as you see for Guan Yin.  So I propose to move it to
'Xi Wang Mu'.  A google search for that will turn up 6,290 hits.
:Just make sure that if you do wish to move this article that you go through the 'controversial move' procedure at , because I will contest it. Zeus1234 (talk) 09:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Move to Xi Wang Mu

message: This was demonstrated by Paul R. Goldin in After Confucius, 11-13.  He translates it as "Spirit Mother of the West"; at a minimum, there should be a reference to this newer interpretation.  There's little justification for perpetuating the misunderstandings of the past.--74.103.157.38 (talk) 06:24, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There's more justification in the former name than the newer one. 王 isn't remotely "spirit". — LlywelynII 12:03, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: The name doesn't even mean "Queen Mother of the West"

message: I was hoping to find published reeferences in English that QMOTW or Xi Wang Mu was/is Jing Mu, one of the Five Supremes due to her seniority, can anyone help? ACHKC (talk) 08:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Charles Hucker, the Jesuits, Stuart Munro Hay and Bernard Leeman all argue that there appears to a connection between Sheba and Xi Wang Mu  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ntsukunyane Mphanya (talk • contribs) 09:37, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There isn't much point putting references from the above authorities because these have been systematically deleted from Wikipedia in the past three weeks by fringe history bigots who believe that Israel and Judah before 596 BCE were in Palestine and will censor any works on Sheba that suggest otherwise.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.245.175 (talk) 09:44, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Xi Wang Mu=Jing Mu

message: "The fourth century Yü Fang Bi Jue … claimed that she achieved longevity by sexually vampirizing innumerable men … to build up her yin essence" . --2.247.254.141 (talk) 02:38, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  sexuality 

message: I noted that some citations do not work (Bernard 2000, Quan Tangshi) and for some of them (CMYC, CTS) the reference is unclear.--Aethelwolf Emsworth (talk) 17:46, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear citations 

message: There's more that could be used for expanding or sourcing the article in the sources just added re: the proper/more common translation of Xiwangmu's Yaochi. I was only looking at the one aspect.
Also,
* .
looks pretty good, if old.
Also,
* 
* 
were listed in the "sources" but unused by the actual article. The later source is probably better replaced by references to the exhibition's book, now listed among the sources.
Also,
* 
* 
* 
* 
were listed in a Further readings section which, while possible, is generally a bad idea. Without explanation for why these entries are particularly useful or important, it's just a garbled and more incomplete and more outdated version of a Google Books search. Kindly restore them to the article once their formatting has been cleaned up and once they're being used to source statements in the article.
 — LlywelynII 12:42, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources for future article expansion

message: * Wusheng Laomu is a title or epithet of Xiwangmu, so I don't think a separate is warranted. It would be more appropriate to merge, with material unique to Wusheng Laomu being moved to a section of Queen Mother of the West and the already existing section on names being expanded to list this as a notable synonym. Scyrme (talk) 06:03, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: * I'm not sure where you get the idea that they are mostly about Yiguandao in particular; both articles name multiple denominations/sects. The Chinese language article is completely unsourced and has apparently been for at least a decade, so I'm not sure it's a good guide for what we should do with English articles. As for references, why not look at the article's own reference on the topic? Pregadio (2013) - The Encyclopedia of Taoism:   This reference clearly identifies Wusheng Laomu as a name of Xiwangmu in these two quotations. Scyrme (talk) 10:10, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:   Do you still oppose this merge? Scyrme (talk) 17:48, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nope! Go ahead. I didn't have much knowledge of the topic. And as you note, the Chinese language article is quite flimsy, that wasn't good evidence. I should have responded earlier. -- M.boli (talk) 17:54, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Alright, since the only objection was retracted, I've now implemented this merge. Scyrme (talk) 00:57, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from Wusheng Laomu into Queen Mother of the West (implemented) 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: speedy not moved. Started by a sockpuppet without rationale & no one supported any move. (non-admin closure)  (t/c) 01:11, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Queen Mother of the West →  – wrong title correct 203.17.215.26 (talk) 03:43, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The disparity is also in the Chinese, where Wusheng Laomu "无生老母" gets 35k hits while Xiwangmu "西王母" gets 2.3 million.  Xiwangmu is "West Queen Mother" -- M.boli (talk) 14:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 23 March 2023