Talk:Andranik

message: Hey Eupator, I have several excellently pristine, authentic photographs of Andranik dating back to the early 1900s of Andranik and I'll try to find the best one to upload here.
Regards--MarshallBagramyan 04:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I have a picture of his equestrian statue in Yerevan. I want the article to be expanded a little before I add it though. I also took a few pictures of Baghramyan's statue. I have very mixed feeling about him though. --Eupator 17:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Mixed feelings whether he should be considered an Armenian hero. Baghramyan served the USSR not Armenia and I'm not sure but I think he was also fighting against Armenian forces for the Bolsheviks during the takeover of Armenia. Anyway, that's OT-reply in my talk.--Eupator 22:29, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I forgot to tell you this but my grandfather did see Andranik in Kars when the Russian army was mounting offensives from there. He recalled that he rode on a white horse and took off a cape which had several bullet holes in it, demonstrating the numerous amount of times he was shot at but never wounded. He also personally met Serob Pasha's wife, Sose, when she stayed at their house.--MarshallBagramyan 19:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And the prince on his white horse swooped down the plains to bring Cinderella her shoe and his bullet-ridden cape :) Better say "considered a freedom fighter by the Armenians", per NPOV btw. And my grandfather met a lot of people too, but met's not get into that :)Baristarim 20:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos 

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thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:General Andranik.jpg 

message: Some parts of new addings are dubious or historically not correct so its preferable to discuss these addings at first:
*what means the edit summary: "to user Fedayee"?
*"but disagreement with party policies led Andranik to leave the Hunchak ranks": Andranik never had disagreements with S-D. Hunchakian party, he just leave it after 1895-96 division,
*"A mission was led by Andranik...etc": an uncorrect translation from Chalabian. Serob's sons were killed in 1899.
*"General Andranik": during the Balkan War I he was an officier.
*"Republic of Mountainous Armenia": very dubious chapter name. In all the books about Andranik I ever read there werent such a division of his activities. F.e. in that time Zangezur was a part of Democr. Rep. of Armenia, it became a RMA during the Njdeh's leadership.
*"to find Andriank around the Shishi" - ??
*"The Armenian militia under Adriancik's" - ??
*"taking with him a group of loyal solders"- he went with few secretaries.
Summaty: this variant is dubious and must be explained and at least partially reverted to the prev. more correct encyclopedic style-version. Andranikpasha (talk) 16:49, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pls discuss at first here! Andranik also wasnt "an officer of the Garegin Njdeh", but the head of Armenian volunteer troops (see the same Trotsky). and this one quote is more than dubious: "Third Army found Andriank(Andranik) at the Shishi(Shushi)": during his life Andranik never entered to Shushi. he was near Shushi in 1919 when he received a command to return. Andranikpasha (talk) 17:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I removed an uncorrect text on Andranik's ARF membership. Several times he said that he represent all the Armenian nation and all the oppressed people, and only for some periods was different partie's member. Andranikpasha (talk) 17:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Last version by Seemsclose

message: It doesn't matter where the hero was born. The only thing that counts is the most common spelling in English literature: “andranik+ozanian” has 92 hits at Google Books and 9290 hits at google.com, while “antranik+ozanian” 31 and 833, respectively. Besides, Western Armenian form would be Antranig, not Antranik, and it too has much fewer hits than the Eastern Armenian form. --Vahagn Petrosyan (talk) 18:52, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling of the name 

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thread_title: File:Andranik Ozanian memorial in Yerablur.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title: File:Zoravar Andranik Yerevan 2006.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title: File:Arf logo.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Is the poster influenced more by Uncle Sam, or by the original featuring Lord Kitchener?Varlaam (talk) 09:27, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not into the history of this posters and I don't know which came first, but your point is good, because I looked up in Lord Kitchner article and there's a section saying "Imitations", so it got to be the original finger-pointing poster. Also, the article says that Lord Kitchiner was created in 1914, when the WWI started and Uncle Sam poster was created only in 1917, when US got involved in the war.--Yerevanci (talk) 19:16, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Uncle Sam" poster 

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thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: :The user who adds this seems to have not only copyright problems, but he also believes nationalistic day.az is a reliable source for Armenian history. OptimusView (talk) 07:58, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It is obviously nationalistic. It supports military aggression against Armenia and Karabakh and publishes extremely anti-Armenian materials (f.e. "Azerbaijan celebrates the return of Ramil Safarov" is written on the first page of Daz.az). Day.az is an Azeri newspaper, it doesn't represent Azerbaijani official views or historical academic researches. I made same copyedit and readded all the reliable materials. OptimusView (talk) 08:32, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

text: About Chalabian: I answered you on your talk. He is the most reliable specialist on Andranik. Conflicts.rem33 and ceghakron are not reliable sources and all sources you mentioned do not mention Andranik's name (FYI in 1920 not Andranik but Njdeh was in Zangezur). See details at WP:SYNTH. What about to ask for a third opinion? OptimusView (talk) 08:51, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

text: About Chalabian: no sources even discuss his reliability. After the publication of his book he received a diploma of Honorary doctor from a respected scientific institution in Armenia, as many other historians, I see no problem with that. Chalabian is also a respected and cited source in US. You're speaking about mass killings and quote Hovanissian writing he overran one Muslim village after another. Overran has different meanings, anyways that's not the same. For Isgandarli and Kocharli I searched Google books but didn't find any reliable links if they were serious scholars. But I find the name of book by Kocharli you're quoting - "Armenian deception". Great, if you call these "good traditions" of wild anti-Armenianism the Azerbaijani view! You're free to add any quotes from that book to the Anti-Armenianism, not here. OptimusView (talk) 09:44, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

text: You promised to ask for a third opinion if I disagree. So it's the right time. Not any material by a PhD is a reliable source. And we can include the term of "ethnic cleansing" but with respect to WP:WEIGHT and after we have a direct citation. OptimusView (talk) 11:29, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Chalabian is a specialist on Andranik's biography, holds a Honorary doctor's diploma. Bloxham just mentions the name of Andranik few times. Chalabian is a widely cited specialist (for example, Occupation and Insurgency: A Selective Examination of The Hague and Geneva Conventions on the Eastern Front, by Colin D. Heaton, Steve Greer, 2008, p. 180, or Hovanissian you're quoting in The Armenian Genocide. Transaction Publishers, 2007, p. 16), an invited regular contributor to the Military History magazine . Chalabian was never criticized for his books. This is enough. And Bloxham is not supported by any other reliable specialist on Andranik, only pro-Azerbaijani radical sources support him. In his book, Bloxham also questiones the fact of Armenian genocide, and he was criticized for that. So even as a historian he is controversional. But anyways he is enough famous so he is cited in the article. And again, if you have a direct citation on "ethnic cleansing" I do not oppose to add it into article. So what's your problem with Bloxham? OptimusView (talk) 06:40, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

text: By the way, Bloxham uses Chalabian's book as a reliable source for him  and in several reliable publications they both (Chalabian and Bloxham) were used as sources . OptimusView (talk) 08:00, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Reliability of the sources

message: "The most famous of the Armenian guerrilla fighters, although not necessarily the most important"
Can we remove this line? The only fedayi who really has a good argument for being more important than Andranik is Nzhdeh, and combined with how Libaridian didn't go into detail on why Andranik isn't important or whatever he meant, this sentence doesn't carry much weight. --Steverci (talk) 14:58, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Libaridian quote 

message: "Ozanian was Commander-in-Chief of the allied forces in the Near East in the early part of the World War. He relinquished the command to General Allenby of the English forces and returned to the command of the Armenian Army."
Should any mention of this title be made? --Steverci (talk) 23:04, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commander-in-Chief of the allied forces in the Near East 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)