Talk:Vitamin B12

message: I added a note to the text regarding Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics being an industry trade group, since their stance on plant and algae sources being insufficient is a clear conflict of interest. It's the same as asking a trade group backed by Kellogs if cereal is sufficient for breakfast.
However it was reverted as "Unnecessary commentary" by User:Zefr. Please explain. mjog (talk) 07:10, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edit was a personal opinion about COI, WP:OR, not supported by a WP:RS source, and was not needed to improve understanding that fermented foods and algae are not practical or reliable food sources of vitamin B12 - an obvious conclusion. The sentence on food or supplement sources of B12 in the AND position paper was sourced to the Institute of Medicine monograph on vitamin B12 and clinical studies of B12 status.  AND is a century-old association mainly of registered dietitians and academic nutrition experts - the 2016 position paper is highly cited and a reputable source for nutrients in vegetarian diets, particularly emphasizing the conspicuous point that B12 intake is deficient or absent from vegetarian diets, so must be supplemented or obtained from fortified foods. Zefr (talk) 18:30, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics not being flagged as an industry trade group 

message: Many sections in the article make it clear that vegans/vegetarians shouldn't rely (solely) on natural food sources for their B12 needs. It really, really seems that this is the wide consensus of the medical community as well. 
In the Plants and algae subsection however, only a mention at the very end, even that with an attribution, clarifies this, with just one ref. There is a lot of talk however, about fermented plant foods, and seeweed-derived foods. Of the 8 total references, 4 are studies (that seem like primary sources to me) about achieving proper B12 levels in humans with these foods. A named algae species is said to contain as much B12 as liver (with a citation that also looks like a primary source). 
This all together is very misleading, and only reading this section and not the others that clarify vegetarians need supplementation or fortified foods, could leave someone very mistaken about the current consensus on this topic. 
I suggest we remove the sentence about the "liver-rivaling" algae (very unlikely untrue anyway, as liver is very high in B12) or at least the mention about such supposed concentrations of B12, and make it much clearer that what the consensus is on B12 and vegetarians. I would suggest mentioning pseudovitamins and antivitamins, something algae seem to have. Feels relevant to me. 
Sections talking about the need for supplementation or fortified foods for vegans/vegetarians:
- The introduction says that vegetarians and vegans may not get enough B12 without a supplement. 
- The Deficiency section makes it clear that plant-sourced foods do not contain enough B12 vitamin to prevent deficiency and vegetarians are also at risk. 
- The Dietary recommendations section states that vegans should consume supplements or fortified foods for B12, or risk serious health consequences. 
- The Fortified food sections states that vegan advocacy organizations, among others, recommend that every vegan consume B12 from either fortified foods or supplements - with 4 references. 23d49h24 (talk) 20:38, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I moved the last sentence to the beginning of the section, deleted the "liver-rivaling" content as misleading (was not clear from the ref that this algae is used as food), and removed a 1977 ref as too old, given that newer refs supported the text in question. If you feel that more can be done to deemphasize the practical value of plant and algae foods, do so. David notMD (talk) 09:24, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Super, thank you. 23d49h24 (talk) 11:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potentially misleading Plants and algae subsection of Sources section 

message: I recently added content at Haptocorrin (HC) that makes clear that functional B12 deficiency can be present even when serum B12 is elevated above the normal range. At issue is the fact that 80-90% of circulating B12 is bound to haptocorrin, and is thus unavailable to cell receptors for transobalamin II, the transport protein that does deliver B12 to cells. HC-B12 is described as circulating storage, but the means for disassociating the complex when needed are not entirely understood. Elevated HC, and thus elevated HC-B12 not available to cells, is caused by cancer, hematological diseases and liver diseases. Same content added here, to Diagnosis. David notMD (talk) 14:40, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diagnosis needs work, too