Talk:French wine

message: BTW- Our wine industry in Canada has been doing great in recent competitions. See the St. Catharines Wine Tasting of 2005 and the Ottawa Wine Tasting of 2005.Ted Howell 15:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Canada wine

message: I have always heard that Italy produced the most wine in the world, often in the context of it being underappreciated outside Italy! See here for example, although those figures are from 1998 and show Italy just slightly ahead and Italian production decining faster than French. I've heard mentioned that France produces the most 'quality' wine in the world, whatever that means, presumably wine over a certain base price threshold. Maybe the most wine in bottles rather than Tetrapak :-) -- Blorg 19:28, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Largest production? 

message: Having browsed around the French Wine entries in Wikipedia, I have to say that in general, the representation of French wine here is in a shambles.  Far from wishing only to complain, I plan on adding what I can.  There's certainly a lot to be done.  Is anyone else interested in rallying a concerted effort to make the entries on French Wine full and informative?  --BridgeBurner 19:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rallying the Troops

message: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Problems in the French Wine Industry has been put up for deletion. A potential outcome could be a request to merge the relevant information into this article so any input (or improvements) that could be given from the editors of this article would be appreciated. Agne 20:35, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevant French wine article up for deletion 

message: Some of the content in the Organizations section is from the merged article L'Office national interprofessionnel des vins. AgneCheese/Wine 03:48, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Attribution note

message: I'm quite unhappy with the way the article starts right now. This is an article on French wine, not about the history of French wine. While the history is quite interesting, the first 9 lines of the article (in my browser) are only about history; they would belong better in a history section. Tomas e (talk) 20:43, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm surprise there is not already a history section, heck I'm surprise we don't have a History of French wine article already. But I agree with your assessment that the lead needs some reworking. While it should include a brief summary of history about France's first vineyards and monumental events like phylloxera, at the bare minimum the lead should include comments on where France ranks in world production (sort of like the current third paragraph but it is a little inaccurate since Italy surpasses Frances in some years) and a overview of the major wine regions as well as a brief touch on the concept of terroir. AgneCheese/Wine 22:53, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Introduction of article

message: My geography is a bit sketchy, but I seem to remember that Paris is somewhere inland on the Seine. However, I was surprised to see on the wine map that it is now a huge island off the West coast of France. On a serious note it seems unnecessary as Paris doesn't itself produce wine that the 'island' can be removed from the map. If of course someone has moved Paris please ignore this. Macgruder (talk) 09:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there is a Paris, Texas, so why not a Paris, Atlantic? :-) On a more serious note, the magnification of the Paris area, set to the left of the French mainland is obviously quite irrelevant to a map of French wine regions. I replaced it with another, much less cluttered and more stylized map. Tomas e (talk) 02:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paris in the Atlantic? 

message: Here are some thoughts on ways to get this article up to a B class:
:*Referencing. While not horrendous, there are a couple section and several important claims that need referencing.
:*The Lead section could use some editorial discretion in accordance to WP:LEAD. While a lot of wine articles have the opposite problem of not having enough of a summary, this one actually has too much and several details that are not found in the rest of the article.
:*The history section is missing ALOT of important detail. It is not bad considering that until a few weeks ago, this article didn't have a history section at all. In the long run there problem should be a History of French wine article with this section serving as a summary. In the meantime though, a B class article would have a more well developed history section.
:*There could be more details and summary about the Vin de Pays system, especially since those wines are developing more of an emerging presence on the world's wine market.
:*Wine Regions-This area has certainly been improved in the last few weeks but I think the "Big 6" regions (Bordeaux, Loire, Burgundy, Alsace, Champagne, Rhone---maybe Languedoc & Provence) should probably have at least a paragraph summary leading into their main articles. It is hard to truly be an overview of "French wine" without providing some summary about these regions.
:*Trends section seems awfully OR. Ideally it should be referencing and merged into the history section as part of "Modern day"
:*Wine styles. Currently it is merged into a grape variety section. Ideally this should probably be split out into its own section and go into some summary about the particular sparkling, fortified, botrytized wines. Maybe also a brief touch on Cognac and wine based spirits like Kir.
:*Climate & Geography. Some type of summary about major features like rivers, Massif Central, Mistral winds etc and the varying influences of continental, maritime and Mediterranean climates. Brief summary on different soil types in the major regions.
:*Terroir section could do a little better summary than a few lines. It maybe best to merge it into the intro on the Wine region section as a segway.
:*Culture and Food pairing section Two MAJOR topics on the relationship of French wine to the culture and cuisine of France. AgneCheese/Wine 01:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good thoughts, although I think that if everything in the list was fixed, it would reasonably be a GA. The trends section could probably be split between the history section and a new "commercial aspects" section, but here more than for many other parts, extensive referencing is needed. Not just because it could be OR, it's POV-prone territory where some edits may want to either engage in France-bashing or defend the gloire of the world's #1 wine country. IMHO, wine and food pairing is an even more difficult subject than description of wine flavours if you want to avoid POV. But perhaps there are better sources than I'm aware of. Tomas e (talk) 11:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I've done some of the things listed (VdP, Wine regions), though a cleanup and expansion may be needed. Regarding the "trend" section: Is it really needed? Why not delete it all together? After all, from what I read, the "trend" is very alternating, sometimes prominent wine personalities declares french wine "dead" or "struggeling" sometimes it's the latest craze and have been "reborn" and so on. I see a hornets nest that just begs for a lot of PoV and all that follows.--Nwinther (talk) 09:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps "trends" was a badly chosen term; what I meant was "developments of the last few decades" as distinct from "history over several centuries". Things like decreasing domestic consumption, increased new world competition, vineyard restructuring, improvement in southern France, branding and changing labelling practices, more corporate influence...By the way, I disagree strongly with your classification of several regions into a bunch of "less prominent regions". You could probably put Jura and Savoy under such a label because of their very limited production, but there is no way that you can label Languedoc-Roussillon (by far the largest region, and arguably the one where most new things have happened over the last decade or two) and South-West (parts of which had a quality reputation centuries before Bordeaux) as "less prominent" without being very POV. To me, that's more upscale wine guide thinking than encyclopedic writing. Tomas e (talk) 12:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Then call it something else. I may be wrong, but I don't see any of those regions as particularily prominent. They have a history, repeat history, of producing bulk wine. Not wine of prominence. And while the regions may be large, that hardly constitutes prominence. Arien is the worlds most planted vine. But it's hardly a prominent grape. It was simply a way of echoing Agne27's "to-do"-list. You can call it "other regions" or you can make a level 2 heading for all of them. I'm not trying to be in the make an upscale anything. Regarding the Trend-discussion, we should move it to the history-section as "recent history" or something. And if we decide to keep it, we should keep an eye on it, as it's an area open to change (obviously). And if someone's read the newest rant from some critic (and someone will), they might want to put that in there. Reminds me of a line once written on Chateau Petrus, that Parker now found Penfold's Grange to be a superiour wine.--Nwinther (talk) 12:29, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I don't really see the need for grouping the regions into "quality classes" in the overview article. The description of each region and the history section will make it obvious that Bordeaux has been traded for long, that Champagne is the world's most noted sparkling wine and so on. But we do need better sourcing for this article! Tomas e (talk) 13:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Sure, I'll have some free time tomorrow and I'll take another look. AgneCheese/Wine 17:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Thoughts on getting this article up to a B

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BetacommandBot (talk) 13:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Logo-vigneron Thmb.jpg

message: .. does not, in this context, mean "at the estate", but "at the cooperative".  In a few cases the grapes will be vinified separately and the wine bottled under the name of the grower's 'chateau', but most growers simply sell their grapes to the cooperative (getting paid by quantity and sugar content). Philip Trueman (talk) 13:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the statement about what "au domaine" means is wrong as well, as far as I can say... But what this article really needs are not just corrected statements, but reliably sourced statements. Feel free to help... Tomas e (talk) 16:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  à la propriété 

message: I'm an American, which is apparently a dangerous thing to be on this page, but I notice that the production estimates are 50-60 million hectoliters. To me, this would sound better as 5-6 gigaliters or 5-6 billion liters. 50-60 million hectoliters just sounds odd. Are hectoliters commonly used to measure quanitites of wine? I know that hecto- and deca- don't get much love, but I propose changing the phrasing here. Anyway, I'm off to McDonald's to whine, sod-off, and look for France on the map of Asia on the back of the placemat. Chaotic42 (talk) 23:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hectoliter is the standard measure for larger quantities of wine. Almost all wine statistics is reported in hl (rather than liter or m3), so it's the unit that facilitates comparison across countries and sources. Feel free to add the same figure in additional measures (the number of bottles have been calculated for the benefit of the general reader), but please do not change the basic figure, since it's actually quoted from the source given. I assume that the historical background is that most wine barrels are a couple of hl in size (Barrique bordelaise = 225 l, for example), so it has stuck as the most convenient metric (if not basic SI) measure at winery level. Statistics for grapes harvest is usually in tonnes, while vineyards are in hectares (Europe) or acres (e.g. US).  Tomas e (talk) 00:11, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the explanation, I didn't know that. In that case, I think it's fine. I suppose we could put "(~1.4 billion US gallons)" after the figure, but I don't think it's a requirement. It's just as hard to visualize 1.4B gallons as it is to visualize 5GL.Chaotic42 (talk) 00:39, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  50 million hectoliters 

message: I am going to rewrite this, giving a footnote for the two very important details that I am changing. If anyone thinks that I (and the website I cite) have got this wrong, by all means correct me and cite another source!
The translation "domaine" = "field" was just a simple mistake: no need to cite a source for changing that, I think. No one can imagine that wines are bottled "at the field", surely. Andrew Dalby 18:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Although it now says that bottled at the domaine means it was bottled where it was grown (or at a co-op), and means it is the product of a single vineyard - isn't that still a little restrictive? --Nickhh (talk) 11:04, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mis en bouteille ... 

message: "the typical French person drank local wine and, although proud of France's reputation for making some of the world's outstanding wines, knew relatively little about them"
Why is this phrase in wikipedia ?
I'm growing pretty tired of the obvious vandalism that permeates all the France-related articles. If you tiresome, whining Americans don't have something better to do than to vandalise wikipedian pages please just sod off! I removed the links, because both of them was very critical towards the French wine industry and is an ill disguised POV...
So. That's what you call thinking? The most vandalized articles in this so called encyclopedia are American and it's done by whining Europeans which includes you British.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.32.45.168 (talk) 14:06, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm thinking about to start vandalising American pages... 

message: This is incomplete: for example the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petit_Manseng is omitted. I don't have access to the stats, but it's worth a better look, and the figures being dated, as they will evolve over time. Richardhod (talk) 13:03, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grape Varieties 

message: This is the current caption to one of the photos in the article: "French wines are usually made to accompany food."
It seems a rather sweeping (and fairly false) statement. Should it be changed? I think it should be changed.
But I don't have the wikinerve to change it...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.40.179 (talk) 17:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo Caption 

message: The page says: L'Office national interprofessionnel des vins, abbreviated ONIVINS, is a French association of vintners.
ONIVINS doesn't exist anymore.  This governlment agency has been merged with others to form, first, VINIFLHOR, then FranceAgriMer.  It has never been an association of vintners, but a government agency, whose mission is to control the application of French laws about vineyard planting and quality, to produce socio-economic data on grapevine sector and to support experimentations.  
Website: http://www.franceagrimer.fr/
A French reader
147.100.144.97 (talk) 11:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  ONIVINS 

message: Apparently, the French wine industry was saved by importing California vines that were resistant to Phylloxera , which is native to North America. The Wik article "Great French Wine Blight"  (which does not have a French page)pretty much supports this,  naming Texas  as the source of the savior vines. This page (http://arlindo-correia.com/060904.html) has info from the Columbia Encyc. and a book on the blight.64.53.191.77 (talk) 02:02, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phylloxera  

message: Whether it is due to changing tastes or some other factor(s), the addition of RS material on this would improve the article. 50.111.44.55 (talk) 04:09, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That section has zero citations already, so any claims it makes are suspicious. Any citations at all would improve it. ~Anachronist (talk) 15:28, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: reasons for declining wine consumption