Talk:Barrett's Privateers

message: Is the Main Truck the base of one of the 4# guns, as the author asserts, or the piece of the rigging known as the main trunk. Assuming a ship-rigged main mast (a not un-reasonable assumption, since doing otherwise assumes a fairly complex and exotic rig, for the time period, which is at odds with the rest of the description of an old and mangled vessel), the main truck would have been the device which connected the main-top mast to main mast. If the rigging was struck, then the main truck could crash down crushing the captain's legs. - Dastal 21:50, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Main truck..." 

message: I was told we'd sail the sea for American gold, we'd fire no guns, shed no teeaarrssss, now I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, the laaast of Barrett's Privateeeeeeeeers.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.34.220 (talk) 22:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not, given the content of the song and the songwriter's background. —Entropy (T/C) 19:44, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  I wish I was in Sherbrooke now 

message: I see that another anon has re-introduced a fencepost error I fixed earlier.  The song lyrics say "Here I lay in me 23rd year."  It's easy to misinterpret that as his age being 23, but it really means that the speaker is currently 22 years of age, not 23.  He will turn 23 at the end of his 23rd year, just as a baby in his first year will turn one at the end of the year and is not one year of age yet.  I've added an HTML comment in the hope that future editors won't repeat the mistake. 216.75.189.154 02:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I find your interpretation of a song lyric to be incredibly pedantic, especially since (if I had to guess) Rogers probably meant he was 23 and wasn't thinking about fencepost errors. As compromise, I've changed the article so that the narrator is described, just as in the original lyric, as being in his twenty-third year. -- Darthsco (talk) 07:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Some idiot reverted your change almost immediately.  I've added an HTML comment; I don't object to minor rewording of the sentence if it remains correct, but I think the comment has to stay because otherwise we'll just see misguided do-gooders changing it to "23 years of age" forever. Of course, we probably will anyway. 184.94.84.164 (talk) 12:53, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  23rd year 

message: Is it possible that Rogers does mean the guns have cracks? The chorus repeats "goddamn them all .... we'd fire no guns, shed no tears". It's possible to interpret that to mean that the crew had intended to use the guns as a threat alone to subdue a ship, and not actually have to fight. That's why the chorus curses "them all" ... for making that unwanted situation a reality. Just a thought.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Worich24 (talk • contribs) 07:09, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: And I would oppose. Googling "barrett's privateers" "cracked four" -wikipedia yields almost 600 hits; "barrett's privateers" "crack four" -wikipedia yields none (allowing "wikipedia" gives 1 hit). Without a lyric sheet to confirm or deny, the only evidence available supports "cracked", which also fits in with the tenor of the song. While you may very well be correct in your surmising, that actually constitutes original research. And don't forget to sign your posts! --SigPig |SEND - OVER 08:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

text: In the recording on Between the Breaks ... Live! (which is a capella except for some hand-clapping near the start, and generally quite clear), the -ed ending is not pronounced very strongly, but is definitely present, especially in "Our cracked four-pounders made an awful din."  I see no reason to doubt the consensus interpretation, which is that it's really "cracked" four-pounders, as in small naval guns that cast four-pound balls and have literal cracks in them.  Yes, firing such a weapon would be dangerous, borderline suicidal, but I think that's quite in keeping with the other things said about the Antelope and her crew and commander. 216.75.189.154 13:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm quite confident our narrator is talking about "crack" four-pounders. As above poster has mentioned, a cracked gun would not only not work, it would likely kill its crew. Nobody wihout a death wish would fire a cracked cannon. The argument that a google search returns more hits for "cracked" simply means that most people have misinterpreted the lyric. In the recording I have of this song (frank emerson on "Safe in the Harbour") the word is clearly "crack". I've edited the article accordingly. Dmhaglund (talk) 00:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

text: The official lyrics make it clear it's "cracked", possibly cracked in proof, see this search. Doug Weller talk 19:15, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "cracked" four pounders? 

message: This has been covered by quite a few performers since it was written. A list would be good. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cover versions 

message: There has been some discussion about how the Canadian Sherbrookes didn't exist at the time of the song. Could he be referring to one overseas? Scotland, perhaps?
No, he's referring to Sherbrooke, NS, named for Sir John Coape Sherbrooke who was posted to Canada in 1784; the year our young fisherman would be singing in. Although there was a settlement as early as 1655, it did not come to be called "Sherbrooke" until 1815. A small error, on Stan's part, but give the guy a break; he was a song writer, not a historian. 99.244.246.219 04:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sherbrooke 

message: I just removed the "Debate" section entirely. The supposed "debate" centers around slightly ambiguous terms at best and complete mis-information at worst.
As a Canadian writer describing a Canadian character, there seems little doubt that Rogers was referring to either Sherbrooke, Nova Scotia or Sherbrooke, Quebec. Unless anyone can come up with a statement from him clarifying which one he meant, it's all speculation. The fact that neither town existed in the period the song describes is irrelevant as it's a work of fiction. Given that Stan Rogers wrote the song in twenty minutes on a bar napkin (as described in Chris Gudgeon's biography of Rogers, An Unfinished Conversation: the Life and Music of Stan Rogers ISBN:0670851175), I think some minor historical inaccuracies are to be expected.
The main truck, however, is not the least bit ambiguous, and refers to the ball- disk- or bun-shaped piece of wood that is mounted on the end of the uppermost spar that makes up the mainmast of a traditionally rigged vessel (see "Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier" by Harold A. Underhill ISBN:0851741738). Being disk-shaped, this truck surely shares etomological and perhaps even practical origins with the wheels of gun carriages, also called trucks, but the term "main truck" is a rigging reference. The removed section and related talk page entries showed much confusion over the proper terminology for traditional masting and rigging elements.
There is a discussion of the varying uses of the term Sloop on it's own article page.
Finally, amongst whom is this "debate" raging? Lacking citations, it's just original research. Pjbflynn (talk) 05:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I have no problem with your removal, I'm sure you're right, it might be a good idea to remove the referal to Sherbrooke, and the 'see below' part too. DannyBoy2k 22:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch, thanks. Pjbflynn 06:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Debate" 

message: Privateers were not legally pirates (unless they attacked ships of their own home country). AnonMoos (talk) 17:19, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Category "fictional pirates"

message: A small topic for a musical discussion:
Is there really a change in metre between 4/4 and 5/4 or is it just a fermata on the 4?46.196.115.19 (talk) 06:09, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Metre

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have often (though not recently) heard it with names changed: "I wish I was with [name forgotten] now" and "... on a Bristol pier, the last of Hawken's privateers."  I always wondered whether that might be for reasons of copyright. —Tamfang (talk) 22:46, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps referring to John Hawkins (naval commander)?? —Tamfang (talk) 16:27, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  variant 

message: Most of this content was added in 2005, with bits and pieces added since. The entire section appears to consist of original research on the parts of editors, providing their personal analyses of the historicity of the lyrics. The three sources in that section do not support analysis of the song, only of factual bits claimed by the editors. I have not found any reliable sources that provide analysis of the historical authenticity of the song's lyrics. Without those, I believe this section should be deleted. (And if any are found, the section should be rewritten to reflect that source or sources, replacing the WP:OR.) Schazjmd (talk) 19:30, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: - Reluctantly agree. PhilKnight (talk) 22:12, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical authenticity section