Talk:Swish (slang)

message: This article has an excessive LGBT and/or gender studies "implicit context" that makes it unclear; there is a lot of apparently appropriate but very perplexing jargon, both in the article and in previous comments below, that should be defined and cross-referenced to other entries for the benefit of the general public:
* Butch
* Clone
* Pre-Stonewall / post-Stonewall  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.220.47.150 (talk) 10:44, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Clone in the LGBT sense doesn't have a separate article, but this article addresses "clone" in a clear way. Cabaretchatnoir (talk) 07:51, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It actually does - Castro clone. I've fixed it and jargon is fine as long as we explain it. With the exception of post-Stonewall gay men, which I've tagged for clarity, I think we're on the right path.  -- Banjeboi 03:25, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Butch? Clone??

message: If someone has references besides "Henry 1978", could they provide them?  Otherwise the notations are useless. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 07:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to message User:Hyacinth about the references Sonenschein, Tripp, Henry, Warren, and Helmer, since he was the one to put them in when he started the article.—Leif Arne Storset 00:37, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  no references? 

message: Why did we change the citation style from the one established to the current one? Hyacinth 05:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It wasn't clear enough for a subject area that some flks may be passionate about, It's a short article and more of the sources are likely online so we should be able to address any concerns.  -- Banjeboi 03:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation style

message: *"The use of the word in this or a related sense goes back many decades. Wentworth and Flexner define swish as a noun meaning "a male homosexual, esp. one with obviously feminine traits"Wentworth, Harold and Stuart Berg Flexner. Dictionary of American Slang. Thomas Y. Crowell, 1967. and cite a use in Budd Schulberg's 1941 novel, What Makes Sammy Run?"
I moved the definition above to the first paragraph. I removed the first sentence, as it is unclear (many decades from when?). Lastly, I removed the 1941 use because there is no reason given to find it notable (and it only goes back two, and not many, decades frfom Stonewall). Hyacinth 05:46, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What Makes Sammy Run?

message: Google scholar seems to have over two thousand hits as of January 2008 and Google books has over 600 leads. Benjiboi 16:27, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing unverifiable tag thingy

message: Why does "Most post-Stonewall gay men view acting swish as internalized homophobia" need verification? Hyacinth (talk) 08:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it is a broad generalization that relies on gender and sexual constructions of a binary opposition between male and female, and it's a specious opinion. It implies that the majority of  men view other men whom express feminine traits as hating themselves. It is material likely to be challenged (since it has been), and needs to be backed up by a reliable and verifiable source. Also, swish was only sanctioned Pre-Stonewall? -Phyesalis (talk) 09:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

text: If you look at this longer-term, eventually it will all have to be referenced, line by line. Reference X supports idea X thus it's not wikipedia engaging in original research. Benjiboi 13:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ref improve