Talk:Minuteman Project

message: It looks to me like it's just a way for some dude to advertise his campaign... don't know the wiki lingo for this, but it's gotta be against the rules. Stupid pandering. I'm cutting any references to the guy who did it, but if some other people think it's a good idea, they ought to cut the whole section.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.107.159 (talk) 11:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:SOAPBOX --NeilN talk to me 00:36, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the anon has a bit of a point, why keep a paragraph about a single illegal-immigrant holding up a T-shirt? - Schrandit (talk) 00:45, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The ACLU got involved so it has some notability. But my comment was directed more towards phrases like "...it's grassroots patriotism and American activism at it's best." --NeilN talk to me 01:08, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Is the 'T-shirt incident' section worth keeping?

message: This article was very long. Part of that I believe is because there were sections for three other groups on the page. First, these groups should have their own page rather than making this even longer; and second, the content of the groups violated NPOV. They have been removed. Panfakes 13:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Making the page shorter

message: I propose this article be deleted, and The Minuteman Project Inc. moved here. Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is not called "Minuteman Project." Tim Long 02:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed; done. Old title (The Minuteman Project Inc) was awkward, anyways, and Minuteman Project is the better-known name. ~ S0CO(talk|contribs) 21:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Delete

message: From Wikipedia policy about self published sources :
"Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources."
Indymedia appears to be a site in which anyone can upload an article, similar to Wikipedia but for news. I'm removing all information using this site as a reference. Please reply if you have a reason why it should be quoted. Panfakes 17:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's correct. Indynedia is just a big forum, and forums can never be used as sources, except for articles about themslves.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 06:19, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Indymedia is not a reliable source

message: This article has increasingly become a depository for criticism of the Minuteman Project. I have attempted to reorganize (as opposed to deleting) critical content, but this is starting to get ridiculous. In order to meet the standards of Wikipedia, the use of reliable sources must take precedence over blog entries such as the ADL blog that has been cited so liberally in this article. Many slanderous statements have been published citing this blog entry, even some which the entry itself made no allusion to.
I think it is very telling that the Spanish-language version of this page is more disciplined and neutral than its English counterpart. Perhaps it should be the model that is followed?
The article does not even clearly state what the Minuteman Project does.  "They monitor the border": What does that mean?  Are they armed?  Are they violent?  Peaceful?  Do they shoot at illegal immigrants?  Report them?  Take pictures?  Have they been effective by any measure?  Instead we are treated to detailed descriptions of related controversies.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.143.247 (talk) 17:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major cleanup and restructuring needed 

message: today the sections containing criticism of the group was removed, including allegations that some Minuteman videotaped a murder of an illegal immigrant. Some serious monkeying around is being done here.  If this is allowed, then the article loses its NPOV and needs to be thrown out or entirely rewritten. Robert J Nagle 03:37, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've restored it, but it may beed further work to maintina neutrality.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 03:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why did someone remove sections criticizing Minutemen?

message: Today I saw that this article referred to a group of immigrants as "lolipop pushers". This is completely ridiculous. If we have to allow the racists to edit the page about themselves, we need to at least keep a close eye on what they're writing. I've already reverted it to NPOV, and would appreciate non-offensive language in the future.
68.101.77.56 22:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racist language 

message: At least four or five sections that are anti-Minutemen, and one short section in favor. Either more positive coverage should be allowed, or the other stuff needs a serious look. Is there a way of filing a formal complaint regarding NPOV on Wikipedia? StaticElectric 02:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not every group gets a lot of positive publicity. This article already has a "POV" tag on it. If you want to get more input I recommend filing a "request for comment". WP:RfC  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 04:34, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is a NPOV disaster 

message: Why is it that a group, the Southern Poverty Law Center here, is the final arbiter of what is or is not a "hate group"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.162.164.144 (talk) 22:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did SPLC claim that Ramos and Compean were convincted of a hate crime? If not, it's mostly irrelevant. They are perfectly entitled to form an opinion at odds with the convinction. Whether they are a sufficiently noteable organisation for the opinion to be mentioned here, I'm not sure. Note that in any case, it's simply an opinion. We don't claim that Minuteman Project are a extreme nativist group simply that the SPLC consider them one. This is the same, for example, as to the way we don't say XYZ is a terrorist group, simply country ABC considers them one Nil Einne (talk) 18:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Your point being? ~ S0CO(talk|contribs) 16:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  SPLC's views 

message: Counterprotestors against the Minutemen have included Anti-Racist Action, International ANSWER the Revolutionary Communist Party, the Progressive Labor Party, the International Socialist Organization, the AntiMinutemen Defendants, the Free People's Movement, the Bay Area Coalition to Fight the Minutemen, Coalicion Deporten a la Migra, the Brown Berets, the American Indian Movement, the Zapatista Solidarity Coalition, the Philadelphia Revolutionary Marxist Collective, the Sacramento Mexican American Political Association, the Brown Syndicate, the Brass Liberation Orchestra, the Chicano Consortium, Sacramento Food Not Bombs, anarchists, and other anti-conservative and anti-border activists.
--Grondor (talk) 20:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Your point being? ~ S0CO(talk|contribs) 16:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Counterprotests at Minuteman events

message: In the section about groups that protest against the MMP, I found this sentance: "...The Catholic Church, anarchists, and other anti-conservative and anti-border enforcement activists."
Not only is there no citation for the entire Catholic Church, officially or unofficially, protesting against them, there is also no indication why the Catholic Church is labeled "anti-conservative and anti-border enforcement".
Finally, couldn't the writer have found a wiki link for Catholic Church? Honestly. Pop6 (talk) 20:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that always looked a little suspect to me too.  If you have not already you should take it down. - Schrandit (talk) 07:19, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism 

message: For at least two years, I've received frequent requests for financial contributions from the Minuteman Project. Being cautious by nature, I have not sent any funds, but have replied, over and over again, requesting copies of the organization's latest financial data (audited income statement and balance sheet). I've also advised that until I receive such data, I will not contribute.
There has never been a response to my repeated requests, which leads me to believe that 1)envelopes are opened and checks etc. are removed; 2)if no check etc. is enclosed, everything is discarded; 3)no one bothers to take my name off the mailing list, and; 4)if the foregoing assumptions are correct, then we are looking at a large and well-publicized scam, one in which the organization does expend monies for training, travel, equipment and other legitimate expenses, but is either failing to keep accurate records, is wasting a large percentage of moneys received on professional fund-raisers, or is diverting money elsewhere.  This whole thing stinks to high Heaven. I hope I'm mistaken about this because I am 100% against illegal immigration and the abuses it perpetuates.
Harry S R (talk) 02:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requests for Contributions 

message: This article is now ridiculously pro-MM. I was linked to this article from the Wikipedia article about vigilantism.
That article contains the statement "The Minuteman Project have beed (sic) described as vigilantes dedicated to expelling people who cross the US-Mexico border illegally." This is sourced twice.
This article, in contrast, contains no sourced information about them being a supposed vigilante organization except the section about a fake video.
The article opens with text about protesters attacking Minutemen members, without describing at all what the organization does, which makes the protests seem unjustified and biases the reader towards the Minutemen from the beginning. Furthermore, under "counter protests," it lists as major protesters against the minutemen "the Revolutionary Communist Party, the Progressive Labor Party, the International Socialist Organization," "the Zapatista Solidarity Coalition, the Philadelphia Revolutionary Marxist Collective" and "anarchists." These groups are listed blatantly for the purposes of identifying the opponents of the Minutemen with communism, with no citations backing this section up whatsoever. I suggest it be removed immediately, and I'd like to put an NPOV tag on this page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.191.155.184 (talk) 18:15, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Though your points are valid, they have been brought up a couple of times already, and there is already a NPOV tag present. Armuk (talk) 18:56, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: In the past couple of months some IPs have added a large amount of unsourced material. Since the material concerns living people, I've removed. Please don't restore or add anything that isn't verifiable.   Will Beback  talk   06:23, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting unsourced material 

message: I placed a pov tag because the bulk of the article only discusses incidents and criticism with barely any mention of what the organization is. Showtime2009 (talk) 05:37, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the organization notable for what it does or is it notable for the controversy it creates? --NeilN talk to me 05:56, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: I removed this sentence:
"The organizations National Alliance and Aryan Nations have endorsed the Minuteman Project, the latter proclaiming it, 'a call for action on part of all Aryan soldiers.'"
Although it simply states the facts, its conspicuous inclusion in this section undermines NPOV. There are many mainstream groups that support the Minuteman Project, and it seems unfair to devote one of three paragraphs in the "Support" section to groups that most people would view as racist and fringe. This would be akin to mentioning that a prominent group of communists support the United States Democratic Party.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cwenger (talk • contribs) 14:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support from National Alliance and Aryan Nations 

message: There should be some greater history added, I think, some mention of the consequences of this group of individuals, including the murders allegedly committed by members of the group. The problem is that doing so it would be 'very' difficult to remain NPOV. Still, the KKK entry covers the violent history, it seems reasonable to suggest that this entry also carry some background in to member history. Damotclese (talk) 16:36, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shawna Forde 

message: An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 17:02, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article gives me no idea on which law this "project" is based. As a German I do not understand why the government of a sovereign state allows private persons to monitor its borders. Are they allowed to shoot "illegal" immigrants? Instead you get a lot of information about the controversies surrounding this organisation. The POV of this article does not seem very neutral.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.6.123.80 (talk) 19:33, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Based on which law? 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018)