Talk:Kiai

message: For some reason I can't get the kanji (characters) for "kiai" to appear properly.  Maybe it's just me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericspenguin (talk • contribs) 03:58, 21 November 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Kanji quandary

message: Begin moved text
*KiAi - this is a dictionary definition. Kingturtle 04:29, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text from "Votes for deletion" 

message: Is there any basis for this outside of legend and fiction? I've heard people say it's possible (usually stating it as being able to "stun" small animals. I feel like we ought to mention it as a legendary aspect, a goal, unless there's proof somewhere that someone has actually done it. *wry grin* Maybe it's time to write back in those four paragraphs I lost over a year ago... -Fuzzy 03:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Deadly Kiai" 

message: I have removed the following paragraph because it seems not based on any scientific facts, and sounds very implausible. A loud cry directly to the ear might permanently damage hearing, but "seriously damage one's organs"? Considering that even the whole hydrophonic shock stuff by supersonic ammo was found to be exaggerated, I simply can't leave this unchanged.  tiktak 2005-11-03
 "There are also martial artists who can use kiai as a weapon.
 The sound waves of your voice go straight through someone's body.
 Since the human body is almost completely made out of water and since sound waves easily go through 
 water(like electricity goes through water)you can seriously damage one's organs with this technique."
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.61.2.182 (talk) 01:40, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Killing with sound.. 

message: I don't think this article is a stub. Should the tag be removed? - Jimmy C. 15:29, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Not a Stub

message: I just got back from an aikido class on kiai taught by my father, who is 4th dan. He told us a story about training in Japan in 1993 during an international, four-week seminar. At one point, the sensei did a demonstration where he called up each of his own students and had them attack him. Each time, the students were struck down without being touched, solely through the sensei's use of kiai. My father told us then, "so I, like a typical Westerner, thought, 'ok, this is probably at least a little bit bullshit. They're his students, they must just know right when to fall." At the end of that class of the seminar, one student asked a question about kiai. The sensei said that kiai would be covered much more in-depth in a later class. However, he thought it would be best for each of the students to experience kiai, first. So one at a time, they yeach went up and attacked the sensei. My dad personally attacked the sensei, and was promptly knocked flat on his back by the power of the yell.
Here I would like to point out that kiai is 'not' a physical attack, in the sense of having sound waves causing damage. I'm inclined to think that the above quoted text that was removed was vandalism. Kiai by itself, not used with a technique or attack, but just by itself, is purely a psychological attack. It is a very primal thing, affecting something in your opponents hindbrain.
Unfortunately, kiai is used rather little in the style of aikido I study, as it is very difficult to get right (anything else is just yelling). As a result, I know little about it, and will probably continute to know very little for a great many years. Sadly, anything I learn in class can't go into the article because it also counts as original research =\  The Taped Crusader 16:19, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: you may be interested in this video.  192.223.226.6 17:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  LOL --81.98.245.212 (talk) 23:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research doesn't belong in articles, so I thought I'd put it here. 

message: Can we please come up with a translation of 'kiaijutsu' that doesn't sound quite so silly? -Toptomcat 19:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The art of shouting

message: I don't think that an article about kiai can be complete without reference to aiki. I'm going to organise my thoughts here and solicit feedback before adding to the article. 
Frederick John Lovret notes, "One should note that ai, the conjunctive stem of the verb au, does not mean "to join" in this case: when used in the second position of a compound word, ai becomes an emphatic marker. Kiai, therefore, should be translated as "spirit!", not "spirit-joined"." [My poor knowledge of the Japanese language does not allow me to judge whether this is correct.] However, care must be taken about the absolute meanings of words when discussing concepts derived from other cultures and expressed in different languages. This is particularly true when the words we use today have been derived from symbols, in this case Chinese and Japanese kanji, which represent ideas rather than literal translations of the components. Historical use of a term can influence meanings and be passed down by those wishing to illustrate ideas with the best word or phrase available to them. In this way, there may be a divergence of the meaning between arts or schools within the same art. 
Kiai and aiki use the same kanji and can be thought of as the inner and the outer aspect of the same principle.  Some martial arts schools use the term intechangeably, however it may be useful to draw the following distinction. 
A) Kiai - relates to the manifestation, emission or projection of ones own energy (internal strength)
B) Aiki - relates to the merging of one's energy with the energy emitted from an external source (blending)
Support for A)
In a ki-society  article  Matthias Rezac refers to 'keeping one point' (awarness/using the tan tien) as kiai. Which is in accordance with A above.
Prof. Kufferath is reported to have said "one should practice it from the "Hara"  or lower region. Using the throat only is of no use at all. Kiai is an outpouring of a person's positive energy (Ki)." From http://www.kodenkan.com/success.html
http://www.kodenkan.com/sktrib.html there is a reference to Kiai as 'internal strength'.
The physical manifestation of energy is most easily observed in martial arts. Most people are familiar with kiai as the loud shout emitted by various martial artists. This sound can be used to focus the mind and breath in a technique, i.e. physical kiai. There are multiple factors which influence effective kiai, for example you should have good postural alignment to transmit ki effectively.
Kiai can be silent,  it is the coordination of breathing with the physical activity which is important. This may be more accurately referred to as kokyu power. Kokyu and kiai are sometimes used interchangeably. The term kokyu is most often translated as breath power in English. Kokyu power, is essentially the same as Chinese jin. "Breath" and "timing" certainly come into the usage of kokyu power, but it is the abilty to co-rdinate breathing with the execution of a jin movement which is important. A relaxed and powerful exhalation can add power to movement. A sound is just an audiable indication of good kiai (aligned body structure, focused intent, and good breathing). It's not the sound that is important.
For additional reading about the Kiai, see the following books: The Fighting Spirit of Japan by E.J. Harrison (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0879511540/8120-0545802-347636) and Living the Martial Way (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0942637763/thedanzanryujuju)by Forrest Morgan. 
Suppport for B)
If we accept the useage above then in an aikido technique, there is an interplay of aiki and kiai. The reciever of the attack uses kiai to postion themselves (posture) relative to the attacker, uses aiki in the intial meeting of the force, and to guide the attaker through the technique, and uses their kiai in the final execution of the techniqe. Note that the 'positioning' here may be a subtle realignment of the body and is not necessarily a full tai sabaki move. 
Aiki is harmony with an attacker's energy -- kiai is the flip side of that: harmony with our own, internal energy. Thus, kiai consists of all parts of the body being unified and directed to one intent. "Aiki", ultimately has to do with a very good ability to manipulate kokyu upon contact... you blend your ki with the attacker’s ki instantaneously
As an aside, I'd like to see a wiki page for Aiki - maybe I'll start one if I'm feeling brave one day.
====Perspectives from different arts====
* For a kendo perspective on kiai see http://www.kendo-world.com/articles/events/central_americas_first/index.php 
* For a Danzan Ryu perspective see http://www.danzan.com/HTML/BOARDS/kiai.html
* For a Karate perspective see http://www.jkasv.com/articles/articlesmain_files/archive-37.html
I look forward to comments on the above... Womble bee 14:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One more look at the Kiai, this time Kiai "master" vs MMA. Fighting by projecting inner energy, right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I --Pitdog 00:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kiai and Aiki

message: * For a kendo perspective on kiai see http://www.kendo-world.com/articles/events/central_americas_first/index.php 
* For a Danzan Ryu perspective see http://www.danzan.com/HTML/BOARDS/kiai.html
* For a Karate perspective see http://www.jkasv.com/articles/articlesmain_files/archive-37.html
I look forward to comments on the above... Womble bee 14:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One more look at the Kiai, this time Kiai "master" vs MMA. Fighting by projecting inner energy, right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I --Pitdog 00:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Perspectives from different arts

message: Although I'm a bit shy about doing so, I decided to assess this article.  I think it's definitely now in the "B" orbit.  It still needs much work, and has some clear gaps, but it's no longer merely "start" class.  I will try to provide a few more comments later (I have to run at the moment), and hopefully contribute some myself.  Good job, whoever rewrote it!  Definitely better!  --GenkiNeko 00:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  11/22/2006 Assessment 

message: Can anyone knowledgeable in Kiai verify if Master Ryukerin is really a Kiai expert?  If this question in not appropriate here please delete at will. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpUgFNO13Rs&mode=related&search= 75.34.84.166 02:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ryukerin is a name that came out from nowhere. The name of the master is Yanagiryuken http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc&feature=related  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.198.165.132 (talk) 00:16, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I can verify that he is delusional, and is followed by people who support his delusion. :) Rick Wiedeman (talk) 19:25, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

text: The related article to that guy (Yanagi Ryuken) seems to be Touchless knockout :) — Ralesk (talk) 22:40, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Master Ryukerin