Talk:Licht

message: Where do the numbers of "performers" come from? The article now reads in part:
:Samstag is an opera for 13 performers: 1 voice, 10 instrumentalists, 2 dancers, a symphonic band (or symphony orchestra), ballet or mimes, and male choir with organ.. (Lucifer's Dream), for bass voice and piano; Kathinkas Gesang ... for flute and six perdussionists; Luzifers Tanz .. for symphony band (or orchestra), bass voice, solo piccolo, solo piccolo trumpet, solo dancer, stilt-dancer, and dancer-mimes; and Luzifers Abschied ... for male choir, seven trombones, and organ.
Even "13 soloists" is hard to add up: around 8 plus 6 percussion and 7 trombones and (iirc) 12 choral basses... Sparafucil (talk) 00:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent point. The description is probably taken word-for-word from the CD booklet, but there may be a typo or a translating error in there. The official description in German (from the composer's work-list, published by the Stockhausen-Verlag) refers to "13 musikalische Darsteller", who are then specified as "(1 Solo-Stimme, 10 Solo-Instrumentalisten, 2 Solo-Tänzer)". This would more accurately be translated as "musical actors", therefore (the English version of the catalog has "musical performers"), though qualifying the two solo dancers as "musicians" may be stretching things a bit. I'll attend to it—thanks for pointing it out.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:56, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see the distinction between instruments on stage and non-acting players in the pit (or on risers). How about "roles", "protagonists", or maybe best even "players"? Sparafucil (talk) 07:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Any of those words might do as well as "performers" (which is the word actually appearing in the score prefaces, CD booklets, etc.), save only "protagonists", which in the context of the Licht operas is ordinarily applied to Michael, Eve, and Lucifer, and so might cause confusion. "Players" of course has two senses, that of actors and that of musicians, and the intention of combining these senses might be difficult to convey in English. What is wrong with "musical performers" followed by a parenthisized list, as it is now? I'll admit that actors, mimes, and dancers fit uneasily into this description.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:25, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, no, let's not risk confusion! ;-) By all means go with the original term then, but maybe thus: 13 "performers" ("musikalische Darsteller" in the double sense of 'players').   As things stand there's really a need for some explanation of both the term and the counting: which are the ten instruments... flute+piano+trumpet+trombone choir? (I only have Luzifers Traum at hand, which doesnt help.)  Sparafucil (talk) 21:24, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Yes, I had thought about that. I have difficulty myself listing from memory the ten soloists from Samstag, but these should be looked up an enumerated for each opera, no question. I think that doing this should also resolve the problem with how to represent "musikalische Darsteller" in English.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Numbers of performers

message: Has there been any discussion of creating individual pages for each opera? I think it would be very helpful. Trumpetrep (talk) 22:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There has been no talk about this so far, but it does seem to me to be a good idea, at least eventually. After all, there are separate articles for Das Rheingold, Die Walküre, Siegfried, and Götterdämmerung, and not just one collective article for Wagner's Ring. Perhaps this might wait, however, until a little more information has been collected under each entry in this article, so that there is sufficient substance to create something better than just a stub for each of the constituent operas.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Individual Pages

message: Wikipedia:Parenthetical referencing#Linking inline and full citations is recommended - maybe other editors are more likely to notice them ;) Also, the inline EXT e.g. The Licht Superformula is discouraged and should be converted to either EXT or refs. Cheers, Widefox; talk 08:19, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thank you for the reminder. I have been waiting now for about three years for the relevant templates to be adapted to the open-year format of Chicago Style, so that such links can be made in this article and about a hundred others. Perhaps it is time to post an urgent request on the template's Talk page (though past experience with such things suggests it will only be ignored). Thanks also for mentioning the EXT problem. I put this link in several years ago, before I had learned of this policy. It can be placed in the refs, though an author-date inline citation to it may be a bit strange.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 15:51, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linking inline and full citations, and EXT 

message: The Holland Festival plans to perform the world premiere of Licht in 2019 directed by Pierre Audi: Holland Festival – Beleid en activiteiten 2017–2020, pp. 8 & 9; Amsterdamse Kunstraad: Zo mooi anders – Advies ter voorbereiding van het Amsterdamse Kunstenplan 2017–2010, p. 77. Both publications seem undated, but according to their metadata, the former documents seems to have been prepared in February 2016, the latter in June 2016. Alex Ross just tweeted that he received an invitation from the festival to some kind of presentation on 20 December. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:51, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Rumours about this have been circulating for some time. While at least three previous announcements have been made, they all fell through, but the Holland Festival is not the kind of organization that often fails to fulfill a formally announced project, however ambitious it might be. We can keep our fingers crossed!—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:39, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like it's not a complete performance, but they have a dedicated website and announced ticket sales. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:54, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The ticket page has now dates (31 May – 10 June), a venue (the gasometer at the Westergasfabriek), and performance details (part1, part2, part3). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:51, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Complete premiere

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This should be renamed, and Licht should go to the dab page. --2604:2000:E010:1100:11B:89F6:DCAF:9376 (talk) 17:42, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What has changed since the 2012 discussion archived above on this Talk page?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:17, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Talk:Licht#Requested move. Hyacinth (talk) 23:59, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename