Talk:Substrate in Romanian

message: Of the list, the following words have meaning in Albanian:
* buză - "lip" -> buza (same)
* grumaz - "neck" -> gurmaz (throat, not an endearing term)
* bucuros - "pleasant" -> bukurosh (beautiful child, boy)
Found it interesting, thought I would point those out. Dori | Talk 04:51, Dec 15, 2003 (UTC)
----
a speria - "to hope" or "to expect"
: "a speria" it means "to scare", while "a spera" means "to hope" :) Bogdan 19:06, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: shpresoj means to hope in Albanian. Dori | Talk 04:16, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
'A spera' is Latin: see Latin sperare. Decius 00:02, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old talk 

message: Considering all the other ancient Greek cognates, I think it's safe to say that the Romanian/Dacian word Baiat (boy, son) is cognate to the ancient Greek word Baia , which meant 'little, small'. The word also exists in the inflected forms Baios, Baian, BAIATeros, et cetera. This ancient Greek word baia/baios (etc.) has not been traced to an Indo-European root, and the linguists that I've read consider it pre-Indo-European. The Romanian word would thus be from Daco-Thracians, who picked it up from pre-IE groups. The Greeks also picked up the word from pre-IE groups. This etymology is much more convincing than the speculation that baiat might "somehow" be from PIE *bher, 'to bear'. Decius 04:19, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a regional word in Romanian "a baia" = "to give birth" which looks akin to "barrë" = "pregnant" in Albanian ("a băia" < proto-Romanian "a băria"). These words are most likely related to PIE "*bher", to "bear" a child, to give "birth" to a child. (these English words have their origin in the same root). Now, it wouldn't be unlikely to have "băiat < băriat"? :-)
I saw that idea in Paliga's file (though he just mentioned it, not that he supports it), and it is erroneous. 'A baia' (to give birth) is not cognate to Albanian 'barre', and 'a baia' is not a substratum word, but is in fact from Latin 'bajulo', 'to bear something heavy'. The Albanian word 'barre' is cognate to Latin 'ferre' (to bear) and Greek 'phero' (to bear). It is not cognate to Romanian 'a baia', and Albanian 'barre' has absolutely nothing to do with Romanian 'baiat'. 
Decius 09:37, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: "baiulus" looks like a noun, not a verb Bogdan | Talk 10:43, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: It appears there are two forms: "bajulare" and "bajlare". Let's apply the phonetical changes from Latin to Romanian: it's not hard, we have only a rhotacism (intervowel "L" -> "R") and an unstressed "a" that transforms into an "ă". So we got "a băiura" and the second one "a băira". Bogdan | Talk 11:12, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: "baiulo" is the first person, indicative. Romanian infinitive is inherited from the Latin infinitive, which is "baiulare". Bogdan | Talk 11:40, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baiat 

message: Ţurţur is a Romanian word for an 'icicle' (also for a 'pipe') that is considered to derive from Dacian. Previous researchers have already done a good job tracing the stem of this word (Olteanu's article), yet I have some extra info I haven't seen discussed elsewhere that adds to the case. 
Olteanu correctly identifies ţur- as a substratum Dacian stem that meant 'a tube, a tunnel', and he cites the ancient Greek word Syrinx (=Surinx, that 'Y' is always an Upsilon) as being from the same stem. Correct. I found another ancient Greek word that seals the case (though it was already sealed): Turisdo (tur-), which was the Doric variant for Surizo, which was a verb that meant 'to play the surinx or play other pipes'. There is a continuity from sur<>ţur<>tur, and the Romanian form is inbetween the standard Greek and the Dorian form. This is interesting in another respect: it is known the Dorians once lived well up in the North of Greece, adjacent to Thracians (though Thracians also lived well south into Greece, especially in earlier times): perhaps they had the Tur- form under Thracian influence, though the Dorians themselves were Greek-speakers (at least I beleive so).
This stem is found in other Romanian words such as ţurloi which means 'the leg from the knee down to the ankle', 'a pipe', or an 'icicle'; and in other words such as ţuţuroi (a water-pipe), ţurca(a type of bat/stick; the game played with this bat) and possibly ţurcan (a type of sheep with long tube-like ears) and ţurca (a type of caciula made from the wool of the turcan sheep; from ţurcan). ţurloi can mean 'pipe' or 'lower leg' just as in Latin 'tibia' could mean 'pipe' or 'lower leg'. In ancient Greek surinx is also used in some texts to mean 'any long hollow object' such as the sheath of a lance. Polybius used the word to refer to 'a tunnel' or 'mine shaft'. The word 'Syringe' (suringe, hollow tube) is known to be from Surinx. A cognate to these Greek words is found in Sanskrit: surunga, which meant 'an underground tunnel'. Though there was a German linguist who said this word may have entered sanskrit after the Greeks entered India: that's irrelevant to my point, and I won't get into that. The fact that the Sur- stem produced words that meant 'sheath' as well as 'underground tunnel' seals the case (though it was also already sealed) that the Wag- root produced 'vagina' (sheath) and 'vagauna' (a cave, a deep tunnel-like hollow). And the existence of such a Dacian word as 'vagauna' (so close to Latin 'vagina') makes a good case for the Dacian Latin theory: especially when added to all the other etymological evidence (thanks mostly to me: linguists had overlooked all those connections).
I also beleive that the anc. Greek word Turris (a tower: a long, high usually cylindrical, partly hollow construction: an icicle looks like a small upside down tower of ice) is from the same stem (both 'turris' and 'surinx' are described as being of unknown/obscure origin and both may have entered Greek from Thracian). The word entered Latin and from there it entered the Romance languages, and then other languages such as English: tower. The stem is definitely an ancient Balkan stem, and the Romanian words are from Dacian and Thracian. Decius 02:21, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  &#354;ur&#355;ur 

message: Taraboi (noise, uproar) has already been linked to ancient Greek 'Thorubos' (noise, uproar) and Albanian 'terboj' (to enrage). This is from a good-sized cluster of anc. Greek words, and the cluster is known to be related to anc. Greek 'turba', 'turbe' and Latin 'turba'. 
'Thorubos' (noise, uproar, tumult, confusion) is found in a number of inflected forms. Here are some: 'Thorubeo' (verb= to make a noise or uproar, to shout together for or against something, to cheer, to raise clamours against, to confuse the enemy, to throw someone or something into confusion); 'Thorubodes' (adjective= uproarious, turbulent, tumultuous, causing alarms, causing confusion).
I am 100% certain that the Dacian term Tarabostes (the ruling class of Dacians) referred to a click or cadre of Dacian warriors known as 'the Rowdy Ones' who were known to scatter the enemy in battle (Lupta, under the sign of the wolf) and throw them into confusion. 'Tarabostes' is a hellenization of the actual Dacian term: Taraboshti. The word still survives in Romanian (Dacian) as Taraboi: we are descended much more from the Dacians than from the Romans, and our language is much more Dacian than we are led to beleive. Decius 03:16, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taraboi 

message: Bãţ - stick, unknown origin
Bâtã - bat, unknown origin
Bate - hit, Lat. "batt(u)ere" 
can Bãţ & Bâtã come from dacian ? -- Criztu 13:07, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. Possibly. It appears we have the PIE root *bhat- "to strike", from which we also have words Gaelic "batair" (to strike) and "batta" (stick), Latin "battuere" (to strike) and English "to beat". Bogdan | Talk 15:21, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bã&#355; , Bâtã 

message: The article begins:  The Romanian language contains...  Albanian language., which doesn't match with the title (List of Dacian words) very well IMO. Does this mean that no other languages that have dacian words? If yes, please say so. Also, it is a habit to start an article with the sentence that starts (or almost starts) with article title, highlighted. Mikkalai 21:22, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: thank you for explanations. In fact, most of the clarification should go into the article itself IMO. Can you do this? Mikkalai 01:12, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Article title 

message: , could you refer to a reliable source stating that the Castelmezzano dialect of the Italian language developed in the Balkan Peninsula and shares a substratum with the Balkan Romance languages (Romanian, Arumanian, Istro-Romanian and Megleno-Romanian)? Borsoka (talk) 08:06, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no connection between the ancient languages (Dacian-Thracian) that form the substratum and the Balkans term. (Rgvis (talk) 12:34, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: , if you cannot refer to a reliable source which states that the Castelmezzano dialect of Italian (an Eastern Romance idiom) shares a substratum with the Balkan Romance languages, why did you revert my move? This article is dedicated to the common substratum of the four Balkan Romance languages.Borsoka (talk) 13:10, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Castelmezzano dialect and the Balkans 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this subsection with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
*Oppose (a more appropriate name would be "Romanian substratum", as explained below). (Rgvis (talk) 17:56, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: "Balkan Romance substratum" also means something different as used here in scholarship -- [][]. Whereas "Eastern Romance substratum" refers to the substrate in Eastern Romance, Balkan Romance substratum refers to a Romance substrate present in Balkan Slavic. --Calthinus (talk) 18:07, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

text: **, , thank you for your comments. I highly appreciate that you dedicated time to cast your votes. I am still asking you to reconsider your votes for the reasons that I list below.  Borsoka (talk) 04:45, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ** alternate proposal: Substrate in Romanian. Below for extended reasoning.--Calthinus (talk) 07:40, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. I can accept it. Borsoka (talk) 07:51, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I support Substrate in Romanian. I think it adresses concerns raised by both of you. Ktrimi991 (talk) 10:57, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey