Talk:Collegiate church

message: This was proposed over 10 months ago when I am sure everyone who saw it, as I did, also saw that the proposer had not seen fit to start the discussion and in any case no doubt, as I did, wondered why. Why merge?  Is there any case for merger? Why did not the proposer say?
Now some mindless robot has set a clock running on the issue, and one wonders why. Why the clock? What will happen now it is being timed?  Probably nothing.
Some thoughts on the proposal.
1. Relatively few Minsters are or were cathedrals and relatively few Minsters were collegiate.
2. Most Minsters were originally monastic and in Britain none are today.
3. Most monastic churches were called Abbeys not Minsters.
4. Relatively few Collegiate churches were called Minsters.
5. Collegiate churches were not monastic and today none, in the UK at least, have colleges.
6. Both Minsters and Collegiate churches were generally rather grand churches but that is not the meaning of the names.
The question remains. Why merge?  Why indeed?  The proposal does not have my support NoelWalley 13:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nor mine. Some confusion between collegiate church and cathedral chapter? Or am I aiming too high in my cultural expectations once again? --Wetman 13:52, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Would you expand on this, perhaps with a source or so, and work it into the article, which needs just this kind of disambiguation?--Wetman 20:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Oppose as above. Minster comes from Latin monasterium, as in Monastir, Münster et al. Renata (talk) 18:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Minster (cathedral) - Collegiate church - Merger

message: Can someone take a view on why there is no mention of the designation "Cathedral and Collegiate Church" which is used by some English cathedrals, for example St Saviour and St Mary Overie, Southwark.  Is the double designation actually meaningful, i.e. would these churches remain collegiate by default even if they ceased to be cathedrals, or is it an affectation?Oinky (talk) 08:50, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the point of the designation for Southwark, was that when create a cathedral in 1905, it still remained a parish church (as it had been since the Dissolution).  Same, of course, with other parish churches raised to cathedral status in the 19th and 20th centuries (e.g. Manchester, Ripon). In so far as this status ought to be noted within Wikipedia; it would rather be appropriate to an article on the peculiarities of English Cathedrals, rather than to one on collegiate churches.  In my view. TomHennell (talk) 19:29, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

text: I don't think there is a hard and fast rule one way or another; if Southwark ceased to be a cathedral, I imagine the full-time college/chapter would be discontinued on financial grounds; but that would not necesarily preclude the ongoing parish continuing to describe itself as collegiate.  St John the Baptist, Chester retains the title and dignity of 'Cathedral and Collegiate Church' even though neither chapter nor college has been resident for many centuries. Technically, I suppose, Southwark in 1897 counted as an additional post-reformation collegiate foundation, unique in that it was not a refoundation of a former medieval college, or a current cathedral.  On the other hand, it was already then designated as pro-cathedral for the new diocese; so whether this is worth including in the article is moot. TomHennell (talk) 18:13, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

text: There were three churches with the dignity of cathedrals in the Lichfield diocese; Lichfield Cathedral, St Mary, St Peter and St Osburg Coventry, and St John the Baptist Chester.  In effect, when in 1102 Coventry became a cathedral priory, Chester ceased to have cathedral status but was specifically allowed to retain the name of 'cathedral'.  Which they have kept ever since, even after St Werburgh up the road muscled in on the act in 1541. TomHennell (talk) 17:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cathedral and Collegiate Church