Talk:Extrajudicial punishment

message: There is a bit of a overlap issue with this article and assassination. While this is not going to go away, I have done some changes now, pointing to the discussion of extrajudicial execution in assassination. Eventually (may take some time) I will work over this article again (especially references - not good at all without!) and then maybe take the direct linking to assassination out again (except for see also). MadMaxDog 22:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Working on it

message: A merger with Extrajudicial killing has been put forward.--86.25.55.166 07:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger

message: It has been added along with it's sources.--86.29.245.48 00:58, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: The opening sentence seems doubly flawed to me.  
* The phrase 'basic human rights' is inherently POV, in my view.  Since when does such a phrase not carry with it a wiki-raging debate?  The POV, which, I hasten to add I heartily agree with, is just not that nearly universal to qualify as neutral.  
:: Basic human rights is a diplomatically defined-and-negotiated term, look it up.  14HumanRights (talk) 13:07, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The definitions are generally agreed.  As-is usual, the "devil" is in the implementation.  Human nature being what it is, 'and all that'.14HumanRights (talk) 13:08, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Better opener, anyone?

message: I think the merger of two articles discussed above was done without proper discussion. Extrajudicial punishment by state includes Extrajudicial killing, illegal torture and other human rights abuses committed beyond the law. Now Mikkalai left only materials about "extrajudicial killings" and removed the rest. I suggest to have two aricles: Extrajudicial punishment and Extrajudicial killing (which is a more narrow subject). What do you think?Biophys (talk) 23:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever happened here, merger, etc., torture is usually not punishment. In the cases when it is indeed a punishment, it must be clearly stated so in original sources.  Also, please keep in mind that the term "extrajudicial punishment" is applied only to punishments by bodies which do have a regular legal system. Otherwise the article will be turned into a huge mess about killings by various guerillas, rebels, mafias, husbands killing unfaithful wives, etc. IMO the article must be completely rewritten starting from really reliable sources which speak specifically about this term. Google is your best friend. And I agree, extrajudicial execution may be a separate topic. `'Míkka>t 18:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

text: P.S.: there was no merge.  Extra-judicial killing is alive and separate. `'Míkka>t 18:14, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

text: P.P.S. Extrajudicial violence is a better umbrella term which will embrace both killings and torture. `'Míkka>t 18:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds reasonable to me. Thank you for pointing at Extra-judicial killing which is different from Extrajudicial killing.Biophys (talk) 18:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong merger and massive deletions of sourced text

message: Since we have a separate article Extra-judicial killing, this article should be about extrajudicial punishment in general, which may include torture and other types of abuse. Is not it?Biophys (talk) 20:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, but the whole segment about torture just has been deleted on the ground: "this is method of interrogation". No, this is often a method of  "re-education", a method of murder, or just a method of punishment (please see article torture. Biophys (talk) 18:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But it still was an obvious content fork to article torture. So, I left only a small summary there. Please feel free to add back some but not all materials.Biophys (talk) 18:52, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Scope of this article

message: An image was deleted on the following ground: "paintings that does not contribute to the uderstanding of the topic". It is hard to define what is "understanding" and what is not. The image should only illustrate the subject of the article. So it does.Biophys (talk) 19:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion of image

message: While, in theory, the subject of extrajudicial punishment is broader than that of extrajudicial killing, there is little practical distinction.   This is shown vividly by the fact that two years have passed, and both articles still cover essentially the same ground.  Extrajudical punishment makes a faint stab at dealing with nonlethal action, and extrajudicial killing makes a doubtful attempt to include assassination by non-governmental criminal organizations within its scope.
As it stands, we have two articles with problems.  Wikipedia would be improved if we had one article with fewer problems and a redirect.   I would nominate extrajudical punishment as the surviving title.  As coverage of the subject expands, this could evolve into an article in summary style and the redirect could again become an article.  Robert A.West (Talk) 17:05, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merger

message: I am not an expert in this subject, but the first logical thing comes to my mind is that the term makes sense only in cases when a state is under supreme control of the law. In other words, if we are dealing with absolute monarchy or dictatorship or martial law, the term is rather meaningless. After all if a person is "punished by God" we don't call this "extrajudicial" do we? Are there any sources which discuss this? Lovok Sovok (talk) 01:22, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Applicability of the term

message: NJP (Non-judicial, or "extra-judicial punishment" happens outside of monarchy and dictatorship.  Unfortunately.
I vote to keep, and not to merge with Extra-judicial killing.  They are two different things.14HumanRights (talk) 13:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Unfortunately, applicable

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Extrajudicial punishment. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified