Talk:Hunting weapon

message: Have reverted move of this page to hunting firearm, as hunting weapon encompasses other weapons that are also used. Yaf 04:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I maintain that the OED meets WP:V, LWF and Yaf do not.  You may want to join in the ongoing discussion of this at: Wikipedia_talk:Verifiability#Accessibility.3F     SaltyBoatr 15:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WP:V and accessibility discussion

message: I point out that under WP:V, reliability is relative, and that the exhaustive 20 volume authoritative Oxford English Dictionary trumps the shorter less authoritative dictionaries.  SaltyBoatr 16:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And I point out that we can't verify that what you are saying is true. It's not the dictionary's verifiability we question, it is your citation from it that can't verify.--LWF 18:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't verify? Just yesterday you said that you 'will try to find a way', now you say you can't.  SaltyBoatr 20:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At the moment we can not verify.--LWF 23:58, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Consider asking User:Pmanderson below, who seems to have had no trouble accessing the OED, having just looked at the OED definition of 'to hunt'.  SaltyBoatr 01:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I have asked, and I am told that one of the uses relates to hunting as lion. I though I was told none related to hunting.--LWF 14:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Given SB's deprecation of poetry, I should add that this is a quotation from Chaucer, "With-outen wepene saue his handes tweyne He slow and al torente the leon." from Weapon, citing Monk's Tale. l. 34. However, saying the OED is not verifiable because it's not free on line is novel doctrine; we are not a web compilation service. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:40, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I only deprecate poetry because I am looking for the literal, not figurative, use of the word.  Poetry tends to be figurative.  Also, I see the OED definition of weapon involves 'combat or warfare'.  The use of a weapon in defense of an animal attack, such as from a lion, makes sense per the OED definition.  Defending oneself against an animal attack is akin to combat.  Hunting is something else, not combat or warfare.  SaltyBoatr 17:34, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliability is relative. 

message: I just made a rather drastic change to the article so I felt I should explain it. My decision to move the Primitive hunting section up was to make the article more chronological, as the old way seemed a little strange to me when read having the weapons that came first in time coming last in the article. Also in the sections on firearms I changed the titles from weapon to firearm, as the sections in question were specifically about firearms and it made more sense to have them listed as firearms. If anyone doesn't agree with these changes let's discuss a compromise for the article.--LWF 02:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly an improvement, and meets WP:Be bold, too!  Good ideas, and good implementation.  Yaf 04:19, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Looks good to me.--LWF 19:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent change in article format 

message: The introduction paragraph seems to be lacking in clarity and conciseness.  Here's some proposed changes.  Irrelevant stuff is left out (how popular hunting is is relevant to hunting, but not hunting weapons) and stuff that is not readily verifiable (such as relative popularity of weapons) has been dropped.
First paragraph--short and to the point, delineate the category:
Hunting weapons are weapons designed or used primarily for hunting game animals for food or sport, as distinct from defensive weapons and weapons used in warfare.  
New section: Characteristics
Since human beings are lacking in the natural weapons possessed by other predators, humans have a long history of making tools to overcome this shortcoming.  The evolution of hunting weapons shows an ever increasing ability to extend the hunter's reach, while maintaining the ability to produce disabling or lethal wounds, allowing the hunter to capture the game.
The spear was in use for hunting 400,000 years ago, and its usage may go back millions of years (reference, spear).  The spear gave the hunter the ability to kill large animals, at ranges as far as the hunter could throw the spear; the Roman pilum, for example, had a range of 30 meters (100 feet) (reference, pilum).  The atlatl, a device for throwing a spear, extended that range even further by giving the hunter leverage to throw the spear faster and farther. The atlatl allowed a skilled user to throw a dart up to 100 meters (110 yards). Archaeological evidence of the atlatl has been found on all continents except for Antarctica. (reference, atlatl)  The atlatl was displaced starting in the late Paleolithic with the easier to make and use  bow and arrow, which remains in common use today in both sporting and hunting.  With the advent of accurate, reliable firearms, firearms became the weapon of choice.  (find stats on bow and firearm use in hunting)  Each new evolution of hunting weapons extended the range and accuracy; a skilled hunter, with suitable equipment and good conditions, can take game at ranges of over 1000 yards (910 meters). (reference, Lilja)
New section:Usage and regulations
Hunting weapons are typically regulated by game category, area within the state, and time period. Regulations for big game hunting often specify a minimum caliber or muzzle energy for firearms. The use of rifles is often banned for safety reasons in areas with high population density, limited topographic relief, or for hunting on bodies of water where the danger of ricochet exists. Specific seasons for bow hunting or muzzle-loading black powder guns are often established to limit competition with hunters using more effective firearms. (find sources)
(remove non-relevant statistics)
Comments welcome--if there's no objection, I'll look for some references as needed and stick this in tomorrow.  scot 19:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good to me.--LWF 19:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed new introduction

message: ...I stopped to view the carnage.  After soaking it all up, my mind distilled it down to this:
* Who gives a damn about the OED (any edition)?  Several sources were given showing the term in common use.  The OED doesn't appear contradict it.  Just doesn't confirm it.  Soooo... in this case, toss it out.
* "An article, being inanimate, cannot have intent." -SaltyBoatr  What?  I rolled my eyes at that one.  Come on!  You knew what he meant.  Knock it off.
I don't think you guys realize how silly the whole thing sounds from the outside.  Splitting hairs, then splitting them again.  And then... splitting them... again!  Pfff.  I fully expected someone to soon say "That depend on what the word 'the' means."
Hey, I'm obviously not inside the mind of this discussion.  But for my part, as an outside observer just contributing to a concensus, Hunting weapon is a fine title.  Better than Hunting implement.  Better than Sporting weapon.  —Thernlund (Talk | Contribs) 03:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Arthurrh 03:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  While wandering through on unrelated business... 

message: Is it really an appropriate term for an object used for hunting. A weapon is an object used for harming human beings right, not for hunting game, anyone agree?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goldfishsoldier (talk • contribs) 04:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weapon? 

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