Talk:Dr. Watson

message: From the article:
:Although it was the British author and physician Sir Arthur Conan Doyle himself who created the character of Dr Watson, as well as that of Sherlock Holmes, yet credit must deservedly go Dr Mohammed Ebrahim Sufi too, Doyle's British-Indian Muslim colleague and a very close acquaintance, for originally coming up with the idea of Dr Watson's character. As Dr Sufi, the suggester and Dr Doyle the author, were both 'Doctors', the fictional character of John Hamish Watson as Sherlock's assistant also had to be a Doctor. This gave the character an exquisitely intellectual touch.
and:
:It was once again the result of Dr Mohammed Ebrahim Sufi's proposition to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle that the former's beloved East got mentioned in Doyle's novels. It could not have been India, as that was already part of the British Empire, and the context of the novels required a place where a British man, Dr Watson, could possibly have been required to serve in 'on the front'. Hence, Afghanistan it was.
Does anyone have a reference to back these up?
--Paul A 09:02, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that the characters of Professor Geoffrey Moriarty, Colonel Sebastian Morgan, and the iniquitous Endicott Bubble were suggested to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle by his childhood friend and confidant Mahmoud al-Shazam. This highly intellectual Musselman jurist had a distinguished career in the British courts and was also a well respected Qu'ran scholar. Mr. al-Shazam died in 1943 after he offered himself to the Imperial Japanese Navy as a human torpedo to be used against the American aircraft carrier, U.S.S. Cheesequake.Lestrade 17:35, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin of character

message: I turned this page to a proper disambiguation page for now, but it might make sense to entirely remove it and make it redirect to John Watson (Sherlock Holmes). Pasi 09:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoops. Wrong talk page. This was supposed to go to Talk:Doctor Watson. Pasi 09:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: actually, it seems that Talk:Doctor Watson redirects here. I'd like to see the redirect removed and the disambiguation page given its own talk page but I have no idea about the Wikipedia policy regarding talk page redirects and their deletion. The page doesn't seem to have much of an edit history so I suspect it can be turned to a talk page without WP:RFD. Pasi 09:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove the page entirely and redirect? 

message: I would like to have an expanded section discussing Watson's wives: how many canonical wifes are there? 195.24.29.51 08:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  wives? 

message: There is no reference in the article to those extra-canonical sources, where the full name came from. But I am sure, that in story The Man with the Twisted Lip wife calls him James, not John.
“It was very sweet of you to come. Now, you must have some wine and water, and sit here comfortably and tell us all about it. Or should you rather that I sent James off to bed?”
Has his middle name ever been found out? Dr. John H. Watson, what is the H. for? I've looked and can not find any reference on this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.16.238.245 (talk) 02:35, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, in Sherlock (bbc tv series) his middle name is Hamish. Hamish, according to Google and Wikipedia, is a form of the name James. Maybe in "The man with the twisted lip" it was an error and it was supposed to be John, maybe he was being called that as a nickname-ish thing? I do not think it was about a servant as David W. Merrell says, because in response to Watson's wife asking if she should send James to bed, Mrs. Whitney says, no, she wants the doctor's help too, and she means Watson. it's confusing, but that's all i got. KingcCake (talk) 06:11, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: Certainly a great many have insisted (as does this article) that Watson, as Doyle depicted him, was no fool, but Doyle himself claimed that Watson was “rather stupid” (4:01).  Is there a “reliable”  source to trump that? —SlamDiego←T 08:19, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Watson as fool 

message: As discussed in the Sherlock article was most likely an Enfield no.2, as mentioned in the article for Webley and Scott:
"In 1932 the Enfield No.2 .38 inch calibre revolver, based on the Webley Mark VI, became the standard British service revolver. However, wartime shortages ensured that all marks of the Webley including models in .455 and .38/200 remained in use through World War Two, and the pistol remained in service as a substitute standard weapon into the early 1960s."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.37.116 (talk) 14:44, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revolver 

message: Para 3 states"Watson is a physician of some experience". But according to the opening of "A Study in Scarlet" he qualified in 1878 and was invalided in 1880 at Maiwand. He then spent "several months" in a base hospital before being shipped back to England. Thus he probably arrived "on Portsmouth Jetty" some time in 1881. This implies that he was not "a physician of some experience", but a quite newly qualified doctor of around 3 years' experience at the start of his acquaintance with Holmes. 212.159.59.5 (talk) 17:49, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Background and Description" 

message: A quick hello and my first post here.
I want to talk about the last paragraph of 'Adaptations'.
I collect Holmes radio broadcasts of all kinds.
Here in the UK The Further Adventures (TFA) is a collectiom of stories by Bert Coules for the BBC using Merrison & Sachs.
Bert Coules has a web site which lists them. They are 16 episodes of 45 minutes each. One story only was a 2 parter (2 episodes) and was the most recent to be broadcast. Actually it debuted this year. 2010.
Now on to Jim French's Imagination Theatre. I guess I should use American. Imagination Theater. Actually theatre is fine but theater is underlined as a spelling mistake. Anyway... checking the web site French's stories seem to of appeared under 2 different titles. The Classic Adventures Of SH and The Further Adventures Of SH. These TFA stories have no connection to the UK TFA episodes. For the Jim French stories Holmes has been played by 2 people. John Gilbert and John Patrick Lowrie. Watson always by Lawrence 'Larry' Albert and not Andrew Sachs as is stated in the paragraph at issue.
The piece needs to be edited as the person who originally wrote the piece doesn't seem to understand there are 2 TFA collections. --RobbyOzzy (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Further Adventures Confusion 

message: I don't see any mention of the character's age, especially as it relates to that of Holmes.  I suppose we're to imagine he ages 20+ years over the course of the stories, but I still don't have a good feel for his age.  Is he older than Holmes?  Same age?  Some films show him as an old retired doctor, and others show him around the same age as Holmes.  Do the books shed any light on this? 65.0.219.59 (talk) 07:10, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age? 

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the proposal was the move is afoot; "no brainer" below sums it up. Overwhelmingly the common and recognized name.--Professor Moriarty (talk) 22:59, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: * Support. I agree with BillMasen. ≈ Prometheus  «talk» 11:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Move?

message: I removed this passage: Mary seems somewhat less sure of her husband, however, absent-mindedly calling him "James" in the short story "The Man with the Twisted Lip". This may be a simple typographical error on Dr. Watson's part, though some have speculated that it is a wifely reference to Watson's unknown middle name, which could have been "Hamish" (Scottish for "James").Dorothy L. Sayers, creator of the detective Lord Peter Wimsey, who also wrote several essays on Holmesian speculation, later published this theory in Unpopular Opinions.
But I'm really not sure whether it should go. We're supposed to cite reliable sources, and this kind of thing is as close to a reliable source as we're going to get on a matter of such detail.
However, we're supposed to write articles from a real-world perspective, not a fictional-world one. This is a serious problem with Sherlock Holmes, because most of what's been written about it is silly play-acting as if SH was a real person, otherwise known as The Game.
Are there any real books about Sherlock Holmes as a piece of literature?
I am strongly inclined to remove all Game-oriented material, but I'd like to know what others think. BillMasen (talk) 11:41, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guidance and "the Game" 

message: Not to be nitpicky, but shouldn't it be Dr Watson, as opposed to Dr. Watson? – (empoor) 18:06, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No, not really. Doyle uses punctuation for this abbreviation (contraction) in line line with an older British style. This old style that currently is still used in US English, is what the character's title is known as universally. Mootros (talk) 15:40, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dr. vs Dr 

message: I haven't the time to draft a new para now, but the portrayals of Watson mentioned are very incomplete.  One interesting point that occurs to me is the various actors who have played both Holmes and Watson - Carleton Hobbs, Jeremy Brett, Howard Marion-Crawford, Reginald Owen, Tim Pigott-Smith, Crawford Logan ...
And Poirot's Hastings surely deserves a mention as Watson's successor.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rogersansom (talk • contribs) 13:23, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portrayals 

message: The article currently claims that In Conan Doyle's early rough plot outlines, he intended the role of Watson to be filled by two junior detectives, Sandifer and Phillip; he later merged these characters as "Watson". I added a citation needed tag to this a couple of months ago. Looking around I can't find a reliable origin for this fact, if anyone knows of one it would be very interesting. I did find someone had asked the question on another site (here) some time ago and as the person who answered them noted, the wording appears to be the same in the places where it is asserted, "suggesting that they they might be copying from the other without checking sources. None of the sites I looked at can provide a source for this claim."
However, I can find a reliable source for the name Ormond Sacker as the original name considered for the character, which is not present in the article. From The World of Sherlock Holmes: The Great Detective and His Era, by Martin Fido (, 9781580620468)  which even provides a copy of ACD's draft page of Study in Scarlet showing the name (copy here).Number36 (talk) 21:19, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Good and thanks. To another matter - in the discussion above, I argued for the removal of the speculation about Watson's middle initial (based on a joke by Dorothy Sayers) from the article for reasons as outlined above. Another editor opposed it and no one else chimed in. I wonder if you would take a look at the section "Middle Name" above and comment if you are so inclined. Sensei48 (talk) 00:21, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sandifer and Phillip vs Ormond Sacker 

message: I note that under this section "he is variously described as strongly built, of a stature either average or slightly above average, with a thick, strong neck and a small moustache" is marked as 'citation needed', I believe whoever added it may've been thinking, at least in part, of this section from The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton; 
He was a middle-sized, strongly-built man - square jaw, thick neck, moustache, a mask over his eyes."
"That's rather vague," said Sherlock Holmes. "Why, it might be a description of Watson!"
"It's true," said the inspector, with much amusement. "It might be a description of Watson."
I'm not sure what would be an appropriate way to reference this though since it's directly from the story, but as the former is already referenced directly to A Study in Scarlet I'll copy that. The only other description I can think of off-hand, aside from the initial one of 'thin as a lath, brown as a nut' (and there's a mention of him having a moustache there as well), is in a Scandel in Bohemia when Holmes and he are discussing the fact that he'd put on either seven pounds, or as Sherlock contended closer to seven and a half, after becoming married. Which isn't really all that much, but if someone wanted to work it in appropriately the reference is there. Oh, and Holmes says 'your modest moustache' to him in The Adventure of the Red Circle.Number36 (talk) 22:00, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Physical Description. 

message: The Popular Culture section mentions IBM's Watson (computer), which was named for Thomas J. Watson, not John Watson. Should this entry be removed, or edited with a disclaimer to the effect that the idea it was named after John Watson is a misconception? 99.1.99.15 (talk) 04:42, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Watson the IBM computer 

message: "Also known as a Jazail, Jazair, or Janjal, a Jezail was a very large flintlock or matchlock musket, with a barrel up to 8 feet (2 m) long. " Even for an approximation that conversion is way off. I would change it, but am not sure which figure to trust. --Khajidha (talk) 11:49, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jezail note 

message: ... but rather pointless. It’s a tribute to Doyle that his creation Watson is intriguing enough to attract such a torrent of surmise. To my mind, Doyle was rather careless of his puppets. Example given. Before Watson moves in with Holmes, he says he has ‘a bull pup’. This dog is not mentioned again. The shifting site of Watson’s gunshot wound is another. And his ‘broken health’, which doesn’t seem to prevent long treks and vigilance in dark, cold places with Holmes.
He tells us he has ‘returned to private practice’ as a medico, but Watson was never a GP. His entire career was with the Army. He does not seem to have spent a long time on the battlefield, either.
And there are other small slips, not only concerning Watson himself. In the ‘Stockbroker’s Clerk’ Watson revives a suicide, found in an EMPTY room, using a carafe of water. What carafe is this, please ?
In pursuing Jonathan Small down the Thames, Watson tells us that the steam engine driving the police launch is infernally noisy, but Holmes is able to warn Watson of his peril ‘in an undertone.
One could add other gaffes. One could complain about Doyle’s habit of making his characters assume a detailed narrative voice, even after we have been told they are lacking in imagination or insight. Far too often, Doyle uses the plot of ‘a man’s past catches up with him’, and Doyle rounds off too many tales with ‘The criminals escaped but afterwards were all drowned at sea.’
The fact is that Doyle never intended his tales to be detailed enough to stand subsequent microscopic analysis. They were entertaining light fiction. So he was a bit careless. 
We see today the same problem when TV programs and movies from other eras become available for home entertainment. Repeated viewings reveal flaws. 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:9006:EAEE:C39B:2B21 (talk) 03:23, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speculation is fun... 

message: Article reads: At the beginning of A Study in Scarlet, Watson states he had "neither kith nor kin in England". In the Sign of the Four, it is established his father and older brother are deceased, and both shared the initial 'H', when Holmes examines an old watch in Watson's possession, formerly his father's before inherited by his brother. Holmes estimates the watch to have a value of 50 guineas.[c] Holmes deduced from the watch that Watson's brother was "a man of untidy habits—very untidy and careless. He was left with good prospects but threw away his chances, lived for some time in poverty with occasional short intervals of prosperity and finally, taking to drink he died". Holmes explains his reasoning: The Initials on the watch "J.H' as well as the 50-year-old style of the watch tell Holmes that it belonged to Watson's father [he had the same name as Dr Watson] and passed down to Watson's elder brother; 
I just checked "The Sign of Four" in "The Complete Sherlock Holmes," Garden City Pub., 1938 and the initials on the back of the watch are given as H. W. not J.H. Holmes speculates the watch passed from Watson's father to older brother, and that they had the same name, and Watson replies "Right, so far." So Watson does not share his father's name, his brother does, and it is wrong (and contradictory) to say Dr. Watson and his father had the same name.  71.162.113.226 (talk) 21:43, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing this out. I think you are right about the initials. Watson and his father did have the same name in a way – Holmes says to Watson in the story about the initials, "The W. suggests your own name", meaning that Watson and his father had the same last name. I've changed the initials in the article, clarified about the names, and tried to fix some other errors in that paragraph. Miles26 (talk) 07:17, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  father's name? brother's name?