Talk:Albania/Archive 1

message: Unscientific myths and fairytales.  you can't be serious about this crap.  Tsourkpk 07:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: Many ethnic Albanians also live in the bordering countries of Serbia and Montenegro (around 1,850,000; of that, around 1,800,000 in Serbia, around 1,700,000 in its province called Kosovo and around 50,000 in Montenegro) and the Republic of Macedonia (around 500,000) although a lot of Albanians believe that the number might be higher. Also a small number of ethnic Albanians live in Greece which are called Çam or Cham. Claims over Çam numbers have ranged from 20,000 to over 200,000 but are believed to be understated because Athens has not considered the local Albanians to be a separate ethnic group.
Without prejudice to the validity of the information above, it seems to be irrelevant, because the article is about Albania (the country) rather than the Albanian people in general. I therefore propose moving the extract to some more appropriate entry. Doing so would produce a more focussed text, similar to the ones about the demographics of the United Kingdom, Germany or Russia. Conversely, if the information remains as is, it might be argued that the article promotes irredentist ideology by blurring the distinction between country and nation. For all the reasons above I plan to remove those sentences on May 21st, unless there are any convincing counter-arguments. I would appreciate any suggestions as to where this information might be more usefully presented. TheArchon 11:31, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So what ever happened to that? The article on Albanians seems like a well-developed article, and a good place for the information you think should be deleted/moved (if it's not already there).  I was only going to make a note on this talk page about the Çam, since a people who used to live in Greece would seem to have nothing to do with the current demographics of Albania, but you rightly point out that neither does anyone else not living in Albania.--Rschmertz 06:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would go along with that- this section belongs elsewhere as it's not strictly about the people within Albania. I think this is covered already in the Albanians article. Has anybody got a good argument for retaining it, or is there anywhere else it might better fit? Otherwise I agree with the previous two users that this should be removed.Zagubov 10:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I got rid of the Çam bit.  I didn't get rid of the Serbia/Greece/etc. part (not bold enough?) but it's not too long to be distracting.  I think the part I left in about where Albanians are currently emigrating to is somehow relevant, however. --Rschmertz 06:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Demographics

message: In the Ottoman Rule part it says that Albanians managed to keep their culture and religion. Actually the Ottoman Empire never forced anybody to become a Muslim. The government policy was this. Mehmet II gave an order which would let all minorities to live according to their beliefs. With respect, the son of the nomadic warriors, Deliogul 11:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  It is wrong! 

message: The reversion of my listing of Counties is inconsistent.
The list of 36 Districts is presented on the Albania page within the Districts section as well as being under a prominent link Main article: Districts of Albania
The list of Counties however is merely referred to in the body of the text as counties
Yet when I attempt to address the inconsistency by adding the 12 Counties which are not listed I am swiftly reverted because the list already exists under the counties link.
For Consistency, either an additional section should be added to the Albania page entitled 'Counties' with a listing of the counties, or the list of Districts under the Districts section should be removed and the following links be shown:-
Main article: 
*Districts of Albania
*Counties of Albania
--JohnArmagh 19:58, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The districts are somewhat more important than the counties, which is why I have left them there, but I will try to emphasize the counties a bit more. Dori | Talk 02:15, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)
----------------------
I think therefore that we have arrived at a reasonable and suitable compromise on the issue.
regards --JohnArmagh 06:01, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what happened since you all were editing this page about two years ago, but before i edited this section today, it only had one sentence about prefectures. Slightly odd, in my opinion since all the other articles are labeled as counties. I added an image to help with clarity but that will only do so much. this is definitely a section needing revamped. b_cubed 16:59, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Counties 

message: : Albania lays in what in ancient times was called Illyricum. Albanians are the oldest people in Europe. Considered a mistery by many westeners Albania is a historian's dream.
Albanians are the oldest people in Balkans. Albanians are descent to Illyrians theirfore to the Pellasgians. Illyrian tribes are mentioned in Homeros poems. Many scholars have agreed with this, such scholars are Edwin E. Jacques and Konstantin Kristoforidhi, to name a few.  --Albanau 17:35, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  anonymous modification 

message: An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Albania article:
* Can link national flag: ...as Land of the Eagles, hence the two-headed bird on the national flag and emblem.  The derivation of the name Albania is of... (link to section)
* Can link Indo-European language: ...of Albania]]  Illyrians arise as a people speaking an Indo-European language around 1000 BC. The Illyrian culture was influenced by ... (link to section)
* Can link Greek culture: ...und 1000 BC. The Illyrian culture was influenced by the Greek culture (mainly the south Illyrian tribes). Albania being also the ... (link to section)
* Can link Byzantine Empire: ...es. After being conquered by a number of nations mainly the Byzantine Empire, it became a part of the Ottoman Empire in 1478 aft... (link to section)
* Can link Gjergj Kastrioti: ... 1478 after years of resistance under the leadership of Gjergj Kastrioti Skenderbeg, the Albanian National Hero.... (link to section)
* Can link World War II: ...t was occupied by Italy. The communists took over after World War II, in November 1944, under the leader of the resistence, [[En... (link to section)
* Can link communist state: ...r the death of Hoxha, Albania was an extremely isolationist communist state, with little contact even with the other communist states. ... (link to section)
* Can link organized crime: ...despread corruption, a dilapidated infrastructure, powerful organized crime networks with links to high government officials, and disru... (link to section)
* Can link council of ministers: ...n using proportional system. The president is assisted by a council of ministers, which is appointed by the president.... (link to section)
* Can link unemployment rate: ...d to be working abroad. The country has to deal with a high unemployment rate, corruption up to high government levels and organised crim... (link to section)
* Can link financial aid: ...from Greece and Italy. The money for imports comes from the financial aid and from the money that refugees working abroad bring t... (link to section)
* Can link fanaticism: ...ther main religions in Albania, though in Albania religious fanaticism has never been a serious problem with people from different... (link to section)
Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:35, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest 12 possible wiki links for [[Albania]]. 

message: If User:Getoar really thinks it necessary to revert to a three-week-old version of the article, without an edit summary, some explanation here is necessary. It would also be polite to replace the minor and entirely uncontroversial changes (for example the interwiki links and the  template). In the meantime I have rolled back the edit. —Charles P. (Mirv) 05:15, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  odd revert 

message: "Albania was also the name of an unrelated ancient state in the Caucasus – see Caucasian Albania"- This sentance has no relevance to this article and i removed. It is a Serbian propaganda intended to make readers believe that somohow Albanians are related to Caucasian Albania. I suggest that no one reverts this without an explantions.--Ferick 06:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted it, and the explanation is that it's a disambiguation between two similar terms - a standard procedure on Wikipedia. It certainly isn't Serbian propaganda. -- ChrisO 08:13, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Caucasian Albania

message: See Origin and history of the name Albania. What to do in this Albania article will be figured out, but that mass of text had to go as it was. Alexander 007 15:26, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed etymology and copy-vio for now

message: From the article, "Religious fanaticism has never been a serious problem, with people from different religions living in peace and even getting married although this was not considered to be an optimal solution." Who considered it to not to be an optimal solution? 04:35, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics/"optimal solution" 

message: Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring, a poll is currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article.  Please weigh in! E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Talk:Republic of Macedonia#POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article|POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article]] 

message: How many Eskimos are living in Albania?
* I guess it is a new way of propaganda. Little one-sided datas were put into the different parts of the article. It is a part of the game of politics. On the other hand, with such a powerless economy and an average HDI, Albania will enter to the EU. Politics is very important my friend... With respect, the son of the nomadic warriors, Deliogul 11:32, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eskimos 

message: The motto currently listed is "Albanians place their faith in Albania". It used to read "Free and strong". Which one is correct? The current listing was added six weeks ago be anonymous user. I know nothing on the subject, but it seemed dubious. PruneauT 23:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This sounds like a Hoxha quote: "The religion of Albania is Albanianism," or something like that - not something a democratic government would want around, even if it ever was the national motto. "Free and strong" is more likely to be the right one. Alr 04:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: that is not true. Th word Albanian means "Land of the Eagles". learn little Albanain first and than come back and discuss with us.
Yeah what is this person saying? "Shqiperija" comes from "shqiponje" (eagle).UberCryxic 19:21, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

text: To come back to the motto: is Free and strong even correct? I could find no reference apart from wikipedia and mirror sites. I don't speak a word of Albanian, but my guess is that the Albanian Wikipedia says that it doesn't have a motto ("Moto Kombëtare: s´ka"). It seems that it was added by a vandal and that only half the edit got reverted. Does anyone know more about this? Pruneautalk 09:26, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking at the Albanian WP, I have to agree. I made sure I checked the Albanian article on Romania (which definately doesn't have a motto) to make sure. Must have been one sneaky vandal...Alr 16:14, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motto 

message: Could somebody with good knowledge of the Albanian administrative subdivisions please verify the content of the following articles: Counties of Albania and List of municipalities of Albania? Are municipalities the same as counties/prefectures? Is there any redundancy of information between the two articles? I need to know which one is adequate to be placed in Lists of municipalities. Thank you.--Húsönd 15:01, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albanian municipalities/prefectures 

message: Current note on language under "Demographics" reads something like "many Albanians are also fluent in English, Greek, Italian".  Was changed to "many also speak Italian" which raised the question in my mind: How many Albanians are there who speak a mother language other than Albanian?  Surely this is more relevant to Demographics than how many people have studied English in university.  Is there a Greek community in Albania, for example?  Shouldn't we at a minimum note that some of these languages (certainly English) are second languages learned at school? --Rschmertz 22:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no statistics, but I grew up in Albania and my personal impression is that more people speak Italian as a second language than anything else, certainly far more than both English and Greek combined. Even I could understand Italian-language television because my family watched it so much. There is some Greek influence in the south of the country, but I'm not sure to what extent the Greek language is spoken there. As for what's learned at school, I would suppose English would be the most popular, but Turkish is up there as well.UberCryxic 22:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other languages 

message: There is a question of how/whether we should describe the fact that Albania borders Kosovo, and thus Serbia.  The three possibilities I'm aware of are: it borders Serbia; it borders Kosovo; and it borders the Serbian province of Kosovo.
Some use the argument that, since we simply say that the U.S. borders Canada, rather than enumerating the provinces  it borders (true enough, in a comparable context), that we should do the same with Serbia.  However, the reason we don't get so specific/detailed in cases such as the U.S. and Canada or most others is because it is simply not interesting or particularly significant.  However, the bordering with Kosovo is very interesting for several reasons.  For starters, it is the only province of Serbia that borders Albania.  As Kosovo has become very well-known on the world stage, it is very useful to know that this Albanian-majority region is contiguous with Albania.  Finally, Serbia at this time does not have administrative control over Kosovo, so effectively there is no contiguity with the geographical region controlled by Belgrade.
To simply say that Albania borders Serbia, then, is to effectively sweep some very encyclopedically important information under the rug, ostensibly in the name of consistency.  Consistency does not trump informativeness and usefulness, and neither, I hope, does political sensitivity.  --Rschmertz 07:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albania borders: Serbia?  Kosovo?