Talk:Chimurenga

message: I think it's a bit misleading to say that Chimurenga is a musical style and then a  term for the revolution. Chimurenga is 1) The shona word for struggle. 2) A title for Zimbabwe's two major revolutionary wars, and 3) A description of musical style. If I get some more information on the revolution, perhaps I'll make a page on that. 
Obviously, there is more money in music then revolution, so that's what one would see browsing the web.
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As a Zimbabwean, I would agree with your analysis. However, in Zimbabwe, Chimurenga or 3rd Chimurenga has never been associated with conflict between MDC and Government of Zimbabwe. It has only been associated with the Land Question and hence the Mugabe Government's chaotic and violent land reform programme. However, the chaos and violence used on the farms are not attributes of Chimurenga. The notion of Chimurenga carries a just cause. Land reform per se is a just cause - even the MDC agrees to this. The way in which it was carried out is what is in contention and what may probably rob Mugabe's land reform of its "Chimurenga-ness".
It is also important to note that the music was termed Chimurenga mainly because the purpose of the music was to further the objects of the revolutionary wars. The "Chimurenga" in the music is exactly the same as the "Chimurenga" in the revolutionary wars. Bob Marley referred to the music as "freedom songs". This idea of trying to separate the notion of Chimurenga in the music from the Chimurenga in the wars is erroneous. Even Mapfumo would tell you the same.
It must be understood that Chimurenga is the notion of justified struggle of the oppressed that is intricably interwoven with a religious context in which holiness, purity, sacredness, integrity, ... generally "unhu" or "ubuntu", are essential ingredients without which one can never refer to the process as Chimurenga. Chimurenga is supposed to be sanctioned by the Most High within the traditional religion, demands high level discipline and purity,  and even involves calling up the most sacred "bones" (figurative) that lie in the soil to join in the struggle.  Chimurenga also involves broad consultation with the people and broad national consensus among the "bones" (fig.) that lie in the soils of the length and breadth of the lands. All this was not done in the land reform programme. When Chimurenga is waged the whole land including the animals and plants are at peace with those who serve in it. Chimurenga is not associated with robbery, unjustified violence, unjustified killing, theft, unjustified ill-treatment of innocent human beings, etc. Chimurenga is not as simple notion as many people in the west may think. May be people who would understand it better are those who talk of "jihad" - but I don't think "jihad" has the same depth and complexity of meaning I know Chimurenga to be. 
In Zimbabwe, calls for and engaging in "hondo yeChimurenga", is a selfless, a sacred and a holy call in  which mercenaries have no place. Its mischievous to call ill-conceived programme Chimurenga and politician do it to evoke national emotions - this is bad.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.125.37.206 (talk) 11:55, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "chimurenga" 

message: I am not actually happy with the phrasing of the article that the vast majority of the most productive land is held by a small minority of white farmers. As a matter of facts that has changed already by the beginning of the 1990s with the huge migration of white Zimbabweans out of Zimbabwe. It is a matter of facts that the colonial social, economical structures have rotted away due to Mugabe's regime. One might just compare figures: by 1980 before the end of Rhodesia GDP growth was 10% p.A. and inflation was under 3% with the Rhodesian currency having been always on par with the pound sterling. Now there is stagflation and the nation is mostly living of its capital and it is well know that even the UN is aware of Mugabe's regime and surpression of free elections without intimidation of voters. Further it is a well know fact that Mugabe never gave any of the land reaquired from white farmers to Zimbabwean farmers but mostly to his own supporters.
Hence I change back the article again. I would be happy for any discussion about that but not just a simple revert back! Thank you.
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You might not be happy but the point is that the article must reflect the truth rather than what makes you happy - otherwise there is no real point to this encyclopaedia. Yes, some rich black people had started to acquire some farms either via corruption or via sheer hardwork. However, the farms owned by blacks were still very few - about 2% of total number of farms. In fact by 1990, most whites who had migrated had began to return to Zimbabwe - this was a period of properity. Between 1980 and 1990, very little could be done with regards to land due to Lancaster House Constitutional safe-guards, which Mugabe was vowing to respect - one of the reasons why Mugabe closed the University of Zimbabwe and deported some Kenyan lecturers was mainly because the students were demanding that he should not respect the Lancaster House Agreement provisions with regards to the Land Question (I was one of them). For you to get a clear picture of what was happening with regards to the Land Question, just take a look of whats happening to South Africa ten (10) solid years after the demise of apartheid - there has been almost not effort directed at addressing the land issue arising from the creation of bantustans. Yes, the process is that slow ... and we cannot say that landownership structure in South Africa has changed significantly ten years after apartheid although very rich black people have acquired some farms through either corruption or sheer hardwork. Its roughly ten years that a lot of people start agitating ... in Zimbabwe, its was the students and the trade unions who started it all with Mugabe sending the army to campus ... in South Africa, the failure of Mbeki to secure party leadership re-election against a morally questionable rival is a clear sign and so is the widespread armed robberies throughout South Africa. In Zimbabwe, by 1990 we were ready to wage another war to address the Land Question ... only this time it was a war against Mugabe ... in frustration the university campus and streets of Harare were war zones and Mugabe was using the army to kill students while defending Lancaster and protecting white farmers.
1980 economic indicators where measures of an economy that excluded the vast majority of the people of Zimbabwe. That economy was a minority white racist economy whose measures did not scale with the length and breath of the Zimbabwean population. This fact was institutionalised as reflected in the laws of Rhodesia. It does not make mathematical sense to compare Rhodesian economy in 1980 and the Zimbabwean economy of 1990, which was all inclusive of the entire Zimbabwean population. The GDP figure you are quoting was calculated on the basis of less than 1% of the population with the vast human and natural resources of Zimbabwe at their service. Surely, such an economy was the healthiest of all economies on earth!!
I am anti-Mugabe and anti-racism ... but my heart bleeds at the blatant distortion of facts and reality that is reflected on many Zimbabwe pages on this otherwise promising online encyclopaedia. Zimbabwe pages are being written by the wrong people who seem to be more emotional than rational. Wisdom must reign among Wikipedia admins/editors so that they can manage the process of writing Zimbabwe pages so that better quality information is reflected on these pages.
You probably may not be writing these articles for Zimbabweans many of whom are not able to read them. However, Zimbabwe pages should be sober, more rational and reflect the truth for the benefit of the English reading citizens of mother earth who do not deserve some of the filthy racial emotions carried by many sentences appearing on most Zimbabwe pages.
Gavakava Samaita Mutasa  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.125.37.206 (talk) 10:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy about land holdings 

message: As with much of Africa, the borders of the country were drawn without reference to tribal boundaries and deeply held tribal animosities. So the country locks up togather two impacable enemies: the Matabele and the amaShona. The place should be partitioned in to two countries - but I digress. The Mata/Ndebele invaded across the Limpopo and drove the shona north. Then they became mostly rural farmers. After the second Chimurenga, the power-holding Shona have turned on the Ndebele in the south and massacred them. They and their cadres have also stolen white farms and black farms and turned then over to untrained Shona cronies and squatters who do not know how to care for the land. The insane policies of Mugabe and his cadres (whic he is pleased to call a third chimurenga) are leadign to a true fourth chimuranga, during which we will oust these parasites and usher in Democratic governement at last. Signed by bulawayo-boy
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The above is typical racist trash of writing ... its unquestionable that this has been written by a white supremacist Rhodesian! These are the people who are busy writing Zimbabwe pages on this august encyclopedia, which is ideally supposed to be graced with sober, rational, neutral and factual articles. This type of attitude is exactly what weakens our fight against Mugabe mainly because Africa is always struggling against white racism and supremacism and Mugabe's propaganda is that we are being supported by these racists. Racists and white supremacists are actually weakening and neutralising the fight against Mugabe. You cannot talk about democratic governance when you are racist to the core. As the opposition who seeks democratic governance, you will not win a free and fair election by telling the Shonas that they are untrained Mugabe cronies who do not know how to take care of the land. The Shonas are simply the majority and wield the majority vote in the country - thats Western democracy for you. The Shonas and Ndebeles are not enemies, only the politicians are enemies. We are organising the people to unite against politicians.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.125.37.206 (talk) 10:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  zimbabwe/schmimbabwe 

message: This piece, I'm sure, has been written by an official in the pay of the ZANU (PF) government - if you can call them that - in Harare. I've tried to roll it back a bit, though no doubt I have let my own bias show through... in which case by all means tidy it up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rhoderick (talk • contribs) 14:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad article 

message: "Upon learning of the death of Mlimo, Cecil Rhodes boldly walked unarmed into the native's stronghold and persuaded the impi to lay down their arms. The First Chimurenga thus ended on October 1897 and Matabeleland and Mashonaland were later renamed Rhodesia"
I've seen no evidence of this ever, please explain your source of this information —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rhoderick (talk • contribs).
:It happened.  I've added a source reference to the article.  Ctatkinson 21:30, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ? did this happen? 

message: The opposition briefly used the term to describe Zimbabwe's current struggles aimed at removing the ZANU government, resolving the Land Question, the establishment of democracy, rebuilding the rule of law and good governance, as well as the eradication of corruption in Government. The term is no longer in vogue amongst Zimbabwe's urban population and lacks the gravitas it once had so was dropped from the opposition's lexicon.
This statement is a misrepresentation of the true fact with regards to the position of the MDC's view towards the term Chimurenga. The truth is that the MDC recognises both the 1st and 2nd Chimurenga and is prepared to view the resolution of the Land Question and the economic development of Zimbabwe as the 3rd Chimurenga if these are implemented correctly within a democratic politico-legal framework. Its is only logical that the 3rd Chimurenga should be the elimination of all legacies of colonialism and racism of the past century (especially the Land Question), the establishment of good constitutional governance and rule of law as well as the eradication of corruption and poverty, and making Zimbabwe into a responsible citizen of the global village. The MDC does not consider the fight against Mugabe as Chimurenga merely because Chimurenga is not such a narrow concept and because many forces that are part of the drive against Mugabe, especially white supremacist forces at play in the subject matters of Zimbabwe, are not legitimate and genuine subscribers to the true concept of Chimurenga. Mugabe misapplies the term Chimurenga and uses policies that negates, betrays and completely distorts the ideals of Chimurenga. The MDC's contention is that Mugabe and his party and Government are not the right people to lead 3rd Chimurenga and the proof is the current state of affairs in Zimbabwe. Its not true to say that 3rd Chimurenga as a term has lost gravitas within Zimbabwe's urban population - this statement is certainly a misconception. It is also not correct to say that the term Chimurenga has been dropped from the opposition's lexicon since doing so is a serious betrayal of the people of Zimbabwe and legitimising Mugabe's claim that we are agents of Western interference on Zimbabwe's political scene and in Africa in general. Statements such as the above only serve to discredit the MDC in Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.125.37.206 (talk) 04:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chimurenga and the MDC 

message: Chimurenga 2 winnable 41.220.18.90 (talk) 20:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  NASS 

message: Factors that cause chimurenga 2 winnable 41.220.18.90 (talk) 20:09, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  NASS