Talk:Sarnia

message: I find the following facts about Sarnia completely inappropriate for this article:
*The Sarnia Golf & Curling Country Club is currently managed by Don Summerton.
:Why should anyone looking up information on Sarnia care who manages the Golf & Curling Club?
*Sarnia has a very active Computer Users' Group (SCUG) with more than 100 members.
:This fact seems to be an advertisement for the group.
If there are no objections, I will remove these facts.
--Darren Lee 13:57, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unnecessary Facts 

message: An anon editor recently edited this article to state that Plympton-Wyoming is the county seat of Lambton County, but both Lambton County, Ontario and List of Ontario census divisions say that Sarnia is the seat. Could somebody please provide a reference to confirm? Bearcat 02:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The County of Lambton Administration Building is located in Wyoming, ON.  I've added references to the fact in the Plympton-Wyoming, Ontario and Lambton County, Ontario articles. --Darren Lee 18:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lambton County

message: Who or what is Jen Bida and why is it important enough to be mentioned so high in the article? Acsenray 22:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anon addition that was put in the article about 20 minutes before you posted this. I've reverted it. Bearcat 23:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jen Bida?

message: The following does not make sense: "He interviewed residents outside the local Taco Bell, The Plaza beside it, the Famous Players' Lambton 9 movie theater and at a gun show in nearby Point Edward."
The Plaza beside it, beside what Taco Bell?  If so, if you are looking at the Taco Bell from the street to the left is a Bank (CBIC) and right is an Adult Movie store.  FYI. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.191.2.130 (talk • contribs) 2006-05-19T09:59:47
:The plaza mentioned is just to the right of the Taco Bell when looking from the street, with the Adult Movie store being on the left, and the CIBC still further left. The quoted information is accurate. tgok 12:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Michael Moore

message: Please note that the communities list is only for communities that are within the legal boundaries of the City of Sarnia proper. Nearby communities which are incorporated as part of other municipalities, such as Point Edward, Camlachie or the Aamjigwaning First Nation, are not to be listed as Sarnia communities. Bearcat 23:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Communities

message: You may also want to keep this name up under the "People from Sarnia" section. He was only in Sarnia for his high school years, but among other things, was one of the few chosen to represent Sarnia at the World Scout Jamboree in Australia in 1987. While there, he wrote as a journalist for the Sarnia Observer filing stories on what he saw and experienced. He also was a member of the LSSAA Sr. Football team for NCIVS. He later went on to found a successful consulting company in Toronto (the "Acme Widget Company") after dropping out of Queen's University. Several years later, he returned to university and received both his BA and LLB in the same year. Since then he has been involved in the field of municipal law working on cutting edge files. Not as sexy as, say, Kim Mitchell or Platnium Blonde in terms of a whos who of Sarnia, but notable enough for this little burg.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Litig8t0r (talk • contribs) 2007-01-19T15:20:16
*I've read all of your appeals on whether this name is noteworthy here, in the Tony Fox talk page and in a Labrador article as well. It sounds like you are Jonathan P. Arnold or know him personally. The problem with this that only you know these facts about him. There's no articles on him anywhere on the internet. If you did a google search for Kim Mitchell, you would get all sorts of hits. The guy has his own radio show! I'm a film editor myself and have had my name in the credits on almost every channel in Canada. Arguably, I'm as successful as Jonathon P. Arnold, but I don't belong on wikipedia. He is not notable and will not added as a famous person from Sarnia or any other community.--Sarnya 23:39, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jonathan P. Arnold

message: This page has been getting a lot of vandalism lately. Is there any way we can try to protect it from unregistered users? Sarnya 21:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: I think the list should be moved to its own page called "List of People from Sarnia" or something of the like. Either that or convert its contents into prose and integrate it into the article. --Darren Lee 03:32, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Been away from Wikipedia for a while... can't tell why this list is displaying improperly (ie: half of the list shows under "References") Anyone know how to fix it? Darren: Option C might be to segregate the list into categories: Arts, Sports, Politics... etc ?? Lyn (talk) 02:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

text: No comment on whether to split the list out or not, but the reason the list was partially displaying under the references heading was that somebody had misplaced the ref tags for Alexander Mackenzie's gravesite location; the entire list after Mackenzie was inside ref tag #1. This seems to date back to an edit sometime in December; prior to that Mackenzie's gravesite in Sarnia's Lakeview Cemetery was listed separately from his primary entry on the list — somebody merged the two but screwed up the ref tags in the process.  Bearcat (talk) 02:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are multiple David Greene (director).  The one referenced must not have been the English guy, rather the guy born in Sarnia 18 July 1968.  I'm working on getting a citation other than iMDB for it (since iMDB is not considered a valid source).TheKurgan (talk) 12:54, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "People connected with Sarnia" section 

message: Removed photo of Chemical Valley per editor order.  You know, it's VERY annoying to have EVERY FREAKIN' PHOTO I upload erased for some specious reason even though I give good reasons for fair-use.  Of course, THEY don't consider them good reasons, but discussing it with them is useless so it's simpler to just remove the photos and wait for them to be deleted.TheKurgan (talk) 15:18, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry to read about your photo-related issues.  The rules about them are so obscure, I walked away from all related discussions some time ago.   PKT(alk) 15:57, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, PKT.  I'm just going to go take pictures myself.  Of course, I can't take a picture of the Edmund Fitzgerald (which they made me remove even though I got permission from the copyright holder to use it).  If they delete those, I don't know what I'm going to do.  They tell me that to improve the article I have to have photos and then they delete everything I upload. Grrrrr....TheKurgan (talk) 16:00, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo Removal

message: The 10:30, 31 May 2009 Alexbot version of this article is translated into Chinese Wikipedia.--Wing (talk) 12:48, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation into Chinese Wikipedia 

message: Paul Ysebaert is actually from Corunna, not Sarnia.  I grew up with him there.69.159.61.240 (talk) 15:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe you, but this link indicates he was born in Sarnia and grew up in Corunna. PKT(alk) 19:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul Ysebaert, former NHL player. 

message: i would like to open discussion on removing this, i have lived in Sarnia all my life and never heard anyone ever call it the Sarnia bridge.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lorne852 (talk • contribs) 09:01, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This has come up before (although I can't find the discussion right now), and I agree with you. I have removed the phrase to which you referred.  PKT(alk) 12:40, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Known as the Sarnia Bridge

message: A new online news outlet has beeen started. The Lambton Shield. www.lambtonshield.com Someone might want to consider adding it to the media section.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.164.171.148 (talk) 19:23, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  News Outlets 

message: Wanted to include coat of arms of Sarnia, Ontario as well as description. Included is the aforementioned heritage of the name, which Sarnia derives, which then can be directed to the appropriate page on the Isle of Guernsey.
Copy of Coat of Arms Image
Source of Sarnia Crest, Description, and Name
:"The three tiered coronet represents civic government. It is charged with Guernsey Lilies (Nerine Sarniensis) which is the national flower of the Isle of Guernsey from which the City of Sarnia derives its name.
:The national colours of red and white are represented. The ship in the upper left hand corner depicts the historical significance of shipping to Sarnia as well as the current traffic and recreational boating for which Sarnia is well known.
:The golden sprig of broom is a component taken from the crest of the former Town of Clearwater and recognizes the rural area which remains an important part of the new city. The blue line represents the St. Clair River while the black and white tip, at the bottom of the crest, represents the railway line through Sarnia and the St. Clair Railway Tunnel which joins Sarnia with Port Huron, Michigan."
:THE MOTTO: SARNIA ALWAYS  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.152.247 (talk) 03:08, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sarnia Coat of Arms 

message: Removed an incomplete list of Neighborhoods.  Will collect a more comprehensive list and post at a later date.TheKurgan (talk) 15:40, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Got a better list of Neighborhoods. These are according to Google Maps.  Per the above entry, did not include Brights Grove, Point Edward, or the First Nation Territories.TheKurgan (talk) 14:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Moved Neighborhoods to "Development" as a subheading.TheKurgan (talk) 18:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Neighborhoods

message: Added Culture section about music and art opportunities in Sarnia.TheKurgan (talk) 16:19, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Culture

message: Added stunning shot of Sarnia from Space.TheKurgan (talk) 00:48, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: New Photo

message: Well, the person who tagged this article as needing NPOV work didn't start this section as he or she was supposed to, so here we go.  Living in Sarnia, I don't want the article to violate NPOV because I want the article to be of highest standard.  Need help in reworking what's considered non-neutral.  So please, feel free to respond with examples so we can revise them together.TheKurgan (talk) 14:14, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed superfluous line about the Canadian Red Cross in the Transportation Section.  Provided citation about Sarnians travelling the world helping other countries to drill for oil.  Added general citations to the government section.TheKurgan (talk) 14:55, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Cleaned up grammar and added citations about the Saint Clair River Tunnel.TheKurgan (talk) 16:19, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Added citation showing Sarnia's infamous status as primary Anti-Energy Target of the Soviet Union.TheKurgan (talk) 20:27, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Want to add a citation about the famous "Fries Under the Bridge" for which Sarnia is known in Southwestern Ontario.  I found the following link http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/432941, which basically is a message board where people have mentioned the fries, and that they must stop on their way to Toronto, etc.  I don't know if the fries are notable enough to be included...BUT, if you put the search term "Fries Under the Bridge" into Google, the fry trucks in Sarnia are the number 1 result!  To me, that's notability!  But, I thought it prudent to ask here first.TheKurgan (talk) 20:42, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Google hits don't qualify as WP:RELIABLESOURCES.  You might want to familiarize yourself with the RS guidelines, especially WP:NEWSORG.  PKT(alk) 21:17, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, PKT.  I will continue to look for sources for what I want to include.  I HAVE already found sources for what I've already included, though, and have cited those in the text.TheKurgan (talk) 12:25, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Found a couple of sources...:)  Will post them.TheKurgan (talk) 13:47, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

text: OK...will remove it!TheKurgan (talk) 14:54, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV Dispute

message: Some stuff seems to have been moved around to places where it made no sense.  Now, maybe I did it by accident in editing the page, but who knows?  In any event, moved stuff back to where it belongs.TheKurgan (talk) 16:47, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No need to guess.  "View history" will tell you what edits were made, when, and by whom (by that I mean; by which editor, or an IP address).  There's a complete history of what the article has looked like over the years.  PKT(alk) 19:10, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Guess it was me screwing up where I cut pasted stuff.  DUH!  It's fixed now.  Thanks, PKT!TheKurgan (talk) 20:17, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible Vandalism?

message: While I applaud the efforts to improve the articles on Sarnia, I have some issues with the "facts" and how they are referenced. 
:Silverchemist, I just noticed you put facts in quotation marks.  While I made mistakes in citing some references, I wasn't trying to gloss over anything or purposely present false information.  I have corrected most of what you found and improved the article through those corrections, so, as I stated below, thank you for the help.  The quotes around "facts" irked me, however, since I've spent the better part of forty hours work on the article trying to meet GA guidelines (and hopefully FA beyond that).  I think that dig was unnecessary.  If you're from Sarnia yourself, as I am, then let's work together to make the article as good as it can be!TheKurgan (talk) 16:11, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Added two more citations.  These used to be in the article itself, but were moved when the separate article was created on "Environmental Impact."TheKurgan (talk) 14:29, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Added an additional citation about the younger population moving out of the area and removed the statement about the petrochemical industry pending finding another citation.TheKurgan (talk) 14:29, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Reworked the paragraph, added quotes, and change the sentences per your suggestion.TheKurgan (talk) 17:18, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Corrected the data, fixed the reference, and added an additional citation on Transboundary Air Pollution, based on a 2005 study conducted by the Ministry of the Environment.TheKurgan (talk) 17:18, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Corrected the photo caption to read Lanxess.TheKurgan (talk) 15:40, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the help, Silverchemist.  I want the Sarnia article to be GA and then FA so I need all the help I can get to make sure the information is correct in the article!  Anything you find that you can make better, please feel free!  As they say, be bold!TheKurgan (talk) 15:40, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I rewrote that sentences and rearranged the references referring to Chemical Valley as being responsible for Sarnia's high particulate pollution. The World Health Organization report makes no mention of Chemical Valley nor makes any comment on the sources of particulate pollution. The WHO report can be found here . The Ecojustice report makes no mention of the WHO study. The other reference says that most of the particulates come from the US.Silverchemist (talk) 19:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual issues 

message: I've been doing some period moving in the article. Generally it's text. as opposed to text. That said, the ref inside the bracket is okay with me, up at the top of the article.  --  Zanimum (talk) 14:44, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Periods 

message: It would be appreciated if some reference to Sarnia Township as an administrative and geographical entity. I gather that at some time it was renamed the town of Clearwater, but I cannot find it on Wikipedia--and only by inference elsewhere.
Sarnia Township is on a map of 1951, and then -- what?
--Oldontarian (talk) 11:00, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clearwater and Sarnia Township 

message: All eight Councilors are from Sarnia.  Four sit on City Council and four sit on City Council and the Council of the County of Lambton. 206.132.54.76 (talk) 04:40, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Government 

message: Finally found a couple of good references for including this Sarnia staple in the page as its own subheading.  The article feels more complete now!There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 01:59, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: An editor removed the Fries Under the Bridge entry that I had made, stating that mentioning the fry establishment by name was advertising.  I agreed with that, so I removed the specific reference to the fry establishment and simply made the entry generic..."popular fry establishment."There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 15:13, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Fries Under The Bridge

message: Originally, I had couched the text of the climate paragraph to include the phrase "winters are cool." As shown by the climate data, the average temperature in January is 0 C (32 F). An author revised it to say cold. I reverted the edit because 0 C is not cold by Canadian standards, nor by northern U.S. standards. The editor's rationale was this:
Latest revision as of 14:36, 28 April 2014 (edit) (undo) (thank)
Jim Michael (talk | contribs)
(Undid - this is a world encyclopedia. Whilst not as severely cold as many Canadian cities' winters, it is cold by world standards, with snow on the ground for weeks.)
Rather than engage in a useless edit war, I put it to the Wikipedia editing public at large. Is an average temperature of 0 C cold or cool?
There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 19:25, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: See Cold :-)  . You could only make that statement relative to something - cooler than, warmer than, etc.  the panda  ₯’ 19:48, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I appreciate the relativity of the situation. The point is: Relative to the rest of the world, would an average temperature of 0 C be cold or cool? Obviously, to someone in Saharan Africa, 0 C will be extremely cold; however, to someone from Helsinki, it'd be positively balmy. I disagree with the assessment of 0 C being cold, but, as stated, seek to avoid an edit war with Jim Michael. 
There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:53, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have said that it's warm in the winter, but I live in a place where  is spring. I would go with what is stated at Dfb which is cold. By the way the average January temperature is . It can be a problem throughout Canadian community articles. CBWeather, Talk, Seal meat for supper? 21:09, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition of Cold

message: The archived list of mayors shows three named MacKenzie:
*1857: H. F. MacKenzie
*1864: Robert MacKenzie
*1878: Daniel MacKenzie
...but no Alexander Mackenzie. I caanot confirm that the Prime Minister was ever Mayor of Sarnia, only that he is buried there. wbm1058 (talk) 01:23, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Prime Minister Mackenzie ever a mayor? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Sarnia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071012015710/http://www.elections.on.ca/en-CA/Tools/PastResults.htm to http://www.elections.on.ca/en-CA/Tools/PastResults.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Sarnia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110706191330/http://www.oilsprings.ca/timeline.htm to http://www.oilsprings.ca/timeline.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110701004433/http://www.liveinlambton.ca/newcomers/AboutLambton/Sarnia-Lambton/locationsarnia/Pages/default.aspx to http://www.liveinlambton.ca/newcomers/AboutLambton/Sarnia-Lambton/locationsarnia/Pages/default.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120714070103/http://www.ecojustice.ca/publications/reports/report-exposing-canadas-chemical-valley/attachment to http://www.ecojustice.ca/publications/reports/report-exposing-canadas-chemical-valley/attachment
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: That wording seems.... odd to me. I don't see what's so overwhelming about white people. Alex of Canada (talk) 18:06, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I was one of the reviewers of the original promotion, and while Sarnia is indeed "overwhelmingly white", I do agree that it is not the most encyclopedic word choice. "Primarily" works better, but I can see "predominately" working as well. Mattximus (talk) 01:50, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it's a bit open to interpretation. Other choices are "predominantly"/"predominately" or "primarily" (according to Google: "mainly; for the most part" e.g. "a predominantly rural state") J Hooper (talk) 20:41, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It was Brianboulton who suggested "overwhelmingly" as part of the Featured Article review process that I abandoned because I didn't have time to do it by myself. In fact, "overwhelmingly" was chosen INSTEAD of "predominantly." Therefore, I reject "predominantly." I DO, however, concede that "primarily" would work if "overwhelmingly" does not fit with your particular worldview. I say this even though Sarnia IS overwhelmingly white. I just made the edit to primarily. Cheers.
There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 07:47, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Overwhelmingly white" 

message: Ship tonnage is a measure of volume, not weight. It cannot be measured in tonnes, and it cannot be converted to either short or long tons. See Tonnage and Builder's Old Measurement. The size of Griffon is not known exactly; sources give 40 tuns, or 45 or 60 tons. Kendall-K1 (talk) 13:02, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tonnage 

message: I know the bookkeeper for Sarnia Bayfest personally. We were chatting about it two Sundays ago. They have turned in their charter and have liquidated all assets, and Sarnia Bayfest, as it existed before, is no more. Understandably, this most likely won't be published in the newspaper. A different group of volunteers has created Bluewater Borderfest, which is a MUCH smaller endeavor. I have plenty of links to the new festival. The Sarnia article still says that "Bayfest is planning for the future." I know this to be untrue, but I don't want to jeopardize the article's "Good" rating by posting something without a secondary source. Would a good compromise be something like "Bluewater Borderfest has taken over for Sarnia Bayfest for now and the foreseeable future?" You know, not mentioning the liquidation but still not giving false hope to the reader that Bayfest will be back as it used to be because it won't. Asking the hive mind.
There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 21:19, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed it from the lead and reduced the amount of detail in the Culture section. Kendall-K1 (talk) 21:33, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sarnia Bayfest 

message: User:TheKurgan has added a photo and caption of a satellite photo of Sarnia.  My concern is that the photo is of little relevance, and is primarily decorative.  The image is 18 years old, so it is hardly as accurate as a Google satellite image (which is linked in the infobox).  Adding historic artwork from notable artists is certainly beneficial, but just because a local boy flies over and takes a picture doesn't mean it is necessarily relevant, per MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE, which states "Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative".   The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 (talk) 10:35, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia photos must be relevant, per MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE.  Just because a photo is nostalgic, or is intended to conjure some imaginary "connection to space", or demonstrates a fondness for some person who wrote songs about a place (or took a picture of it)...does not mean the photo should be featured in a Wikipedia article.  The satellite image is stale, and this isn't Facebook.  Magnolia677 (talk) 23:52, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The photos are relevant, and you, Magnolia677, are, to put it bluntly, wrong. How could you POSSIBLY think that Sarnia's connection to space flight is imaginary? Chris Hadfield is FROM SARNIA. That's like saying Bonn has no connection to symphonic music even though Beethoven was from there. Also, you don't seem to know what it was that Hadfield sang about on the ISS. He didn't sing songs about Sarnia. He recorded the first music video in space, David Bowie's "Space Oddity," which has more than 43 million views on YouTube. New York, Boston, Paris, and Berlin all have satellite photos on their pages. Some are even from the ISS. I suppose that we should remove those for being "primarily decorative," right? Quite frankly, I resent your stale condescension.There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 13:10, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This issue is done and dusted again. Magog the Ogre uploaded a free satellite image of Sarnia. While this one is stale because it's impersonal, I thank Magog the Ogre for doing so if only to stop the arguing. Cheers to all.There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 12:55, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Satellite image 

message: Well, ain't that a pip. The Weather Underground page didn't update one of the frames when I reloaded it! Grrrr. One frame said it was 100 F, and the byline said it was 98 F. Because it's impossible to know which one is right, there's no point in updating the page.There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 21:37, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: . I looked at  this and neither Sarnia (35.3 C) or Sarnia Climate (35.3 C) show  or  on that day. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 15:52, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a case of truth vs. "the record." The actual high temperature in Sarnia that day was 42 C (107.6 F). That was a shade temperature I measured myself. I know this to be true because I have photos of the external thermometer in my car that show it clearly. I know I can't use it on here because Wikipedia is only about what can be proved through citation and not about truth. That's understandable. I might even call it reasonable. But, that doesn't change the fact that a weather record was set, and we cannot use the data because it's not "official." The point in Sarnia where the 38.77 C was registered was St. Alban's Park, not Chris Hadfield Airport. Oh, well. When I noticed the data wasn't 100-percent, I reverted my own edit so that it was still official. I brought this article up to GA status, and I don't want to lose that because of some technicality.There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 18:38, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Record July Temperature 

message: User:TheKurgan has reverted attempts to remove the following from the lead section:
:"Four-time Emmy winner Michael Learned starred as Daisy Werthan in a 2010 production of Driving Miss Daisy at the Imperial Theatre."
Michael Learned and her four Emmys have no connection to this article, and this puffery should be removed.  The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, my reversion was reverted. I said to myself, fine, I will simply rewrite it. How, pray tell, is the fact that a renowned actress performed in Sarnia not relevant to the city's cultural significance? That such a small city could attract such a renowned actress speaks to the quality of the theatre culture in Sarnia. Look, you can't have it both ways. You and some other guy objected to "graced the stage," so I said, OK, I'll change it. I changed it to be more sterile and happened to include the fact that Michael Learned earned four Emmys. Heaven forbid I commit the cardinal sin of BOOSTERISM! *GASP* It always amuses me that people can write all sorts of negative stuff about someplace in that place's article, and as long as they source it properly, no one EVER accuses them of anti-boosterism or being too negative. As soon as someone says something really NICE about a place, even with accurate sources, people like you come out of the woodwork shouting "puffery," "boosterism," and all sorts of other things similar. Your condescension is still showing. It's not becoming to you.
You think you're so high and mighty, but I shall share with you a saying my mother used: You still put your pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us. Now, you are probably accusing me in your mind of being a "gatekeeper" of this article. Well, after the work I have put in over the last seven years, it is MY article. I'm the one who took a poor page of about three paragraphs and spent what is probably more than 150 hours on it, all told, MYSELF. Then, you and the other guy come along and act like God's gift to WikiPedia. The other guy even commented, "How was this ever a Good Article?" Well, if that guy had BOTHERED to read the talk page and see the EXTENSIVE documentation of the GA Approval process, he'd have seen, "How this is a Good Article." You and he probably have dozens of articles you've created and maintained, so you think telling others what to do is your birthright. I say, "Hogwash." I'm trying to be civil here, Magnolia677, but you certainly make that difficult. Oh, and sarcasm is not uncivil. Still, to placate you and he so that you leave me and my article alone, I removed the citation from the lead. My blood pressure doesn't need uncivil condescension to drive it up. Good day.There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 19:54, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

text: Thanks for being a good sport and reverting your edit.  You know, my mother used to say "just follow your dreams"!  The problem is, half the time I can't remember my dreams when I wake up, and sometimes—in the middle of a dream—I find myself saying "hey dream, where are you going?"  I mean, how can you follow your dreams if you don't know where they're going?  Anyway, please take a moment to read Wikipedia:Ownership of content.  In a nutshell, Wikipedia articles are kind of like that parking spot on the road in front of your house.  It's totally your favourite place to park, and you get soooo pissed when anyone else parks there, but at the end of the day, it's not yours, and never will be yours. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:34, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Now, why on EARTH can't you reply this way every time? Why do you sound like Sam the Eagle from the Muppet Show all the time except this time, when you actually sound like you might *gasp* be cool? Haha. Oh, I know all about "Ownership of content" and how it's not "my article." I've got news for you, however. It IS my article. I put in all the hours. I appreciate all of the help I've gotten, both during and since the GA process, but at the end of the day, I'm the one who did all the heavy lifting. I know what the policy is, and the policy is wrong.There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 21:59, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

text: I would tend to agree politely that this factoid should not be in the lead of the article. Sarnia is not known as a cultural centre, or having a significant artistic presence. Any reader unfamiliar with the city reading the lead would get a very different impression than how it is. It remains, at least for now, primarily a petrochemical industrial centre. Mattximus (talk) 03:11, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: So, I guess the world-famous artists who have had exhibitions at the Judith-Norman Alix Gallery mean nothing? Or the world-famous performers with the International Symphony Orchestra the same? Or the jazz musicians? Or the major rock and country artists that came to Bayfest? Or the artists who come to Bluewater Borderfest? Hey, you know what? Why don't I make up something BAD about Sarnia? You know, just write it in without sourcing it? Bet no one would care! *smirk*There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 21:12, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: "Guess the world-famous artists who have had exhibitions at the Judith-Norman Alix Gallery mean nothing" Actually yes, that does mean nothing in this context. It doesn't really matter where an International Symphony once performed, or a painting of Picasso once was loaned. Those are both completely trivial and should not be in the main article of *any* city. A major museum dedicated to Picasso, for sure, include that in the city page. Even the place Picasso painted sure, include that in the city page. But not a place that his paintings once visited, that is very much trivial. Mattximus (talk) 16:30, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Mattximus, I PLAYUSED TO PLAY in the International Symphony Orchestra, which is based in Sarnia and plays 12 concerts a season, six on each side of the border. It's been there since 1957. (Because of the puffery of Magnolia677's shirt, accusing me of impropriety with no basis whatsoever, I changed this to "used to play" because I am currently on a leave of absence from the orchestra, which is now likely also defunct because of the pandemic)There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Puffery in lead