Talk:Israel/Israel and the Occupied Territories-8

message: My proposed changes:
  and the subsequent attempted extermination of the Jewish people in the Shoah, or Holocaust.
To:
  and the Holocaust.
The Holocaust is well known enough that you dont have to mention again that it was an attempt to exterminate "the Jews of Europe". And why use the Jewish word for it when this is an English language encyclopaedia?
::The attempted extermination explains motivation.  Leaving out Shoah is fine. Jayjg 03:15, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Please re-read the sentence in context. Jayjg 07:20, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  the Holocaust 

message: My proposed changes:
  In 1947, following increasing levels of violence and unsuccessful efforts to reconcile 
  the Jewish and Arab populations
To:
  In 1947, following increasing levels of violence and several unsuccessful efforts to 
  reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations
Cause the British government tried many times.
::Fine. Jayjg 03:16, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  several 

message: My proposed changes:
  Fulfillment of the 1947 UN Partition Plan would have divided the mandated 
  territory into two states, Jewish and Arab, giving about half the land area to 
  each state. This plan, as well as an earlier 1937 partition proposed by the 
  Peel Commission, was rejected by Arab leaders. Immediately following the 
  adoption of the Partition Plan by the United Nations General Assembly, the 
  Palestinian Arab leadership vowed to crush the as yet un-named Jewish State and 
  launched a guerilla war.
To:
  The 1947 UN Partiton Plan was put forward to divide Palestine in two states 
  of roughly equal size, one Jewish and one Arab. This plan, as well as an earlier 
  1937 partition proposed by the Peel Commission, was rejected by Arab 
  leaders. The Partition Plan was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly with
  33 votes in favour, 13 votes against and 10 abstainees. Immidiately following the 
  adoption of the plan violence broke out between the Jewish and Arab populations. 
  Particularily the Jewish guerilla groups Irgun and Lehi played a vital role 
  in escalating the conflict to a state of war.
Because the previous paragraph describes Arab guerillas as the main instigators. In reality, Irgun and Lehi was the only guerillas in Palestine at the time and they actively escalated the conflict. And I think the fact that the adoption of the plan was far from unanimous is important.
::I don't know why you imagine there weren't Arab guerillas; the vote numbers are excess detail. Jayjg 03:18, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: From which source is that comparison made? Impi 21:59, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: The commanders of the Haganah, on the other hand, advocated hard-hitting military reprisals. Ben-Gurion himself shared the latters' opinion that their best bet under the circumstances was not to contain and localize the trouble but to escalate the military conflict. Consequently, the Haganah embarked on a policy of "aggressive defense" accompanied by economic subversion and psychological warfare. (Shlaim, The Iron Wall, p.30-31)
Seem to indicate that the Zionist side should receive the lion share of the responsibility if either side should be blamed. Even if the undergrounds is not mentioned. Palestine-info 10:39, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: That indicates that that is Shlaim's view. Jayjg 14:47, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Palestine-info: Shlaim is not known as the most objective historian around, and besides, I don't see the significance of this quote. The Haganah was a civilian-controlled defence militia, that later formed the basis for the Israel Defence Force. It cannot be compared to either Irgun or Lehi. Secondly, when war is inevitable, or in fact just beginning, you sort of expect your defence force to embark on an aggressive defence policy, including psychological warfare. That's a basic precept of armed conflict. I think the use of language such as "contain and localize the trouble" is just indicative of Shlaim's usual bias. Besides, as an aside, whilst you're flinging around statements like the Zionists are responsible for it all, can you tell me when the first Arab attack on Jews in that region occured in the 20th century? Also, can you tell me when the first Jewish attack on Arabs in the same time period occurred... Impi 07:35, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  1947 UN Partition Plan 

message: My proposed changes:
  The Gaza Strip was captured by Egypt, and came under its control.
To:
  The Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt, but was never formally annexed.
Since Jordan's annexation is mentioned, Israel's annexation should be mentioned and the fact that Egypt did not annex the Gaza Strip should be mentioned.
:The language was a compromise, an attempt to leave controversial terms out of the article.  Putting in occupied opens up a can of worms. Jayjg 03:20, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Occupied is an opinion, and this can of worms is best left closed. Jayjg 17:54, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: For the Fourth Geneva convention to apply, there has to be a "High Contracting Party".  Who is the "High Contracting Party" that legally owned the territories before Israel captured them? Jayjg 21:46, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaza strip was occupied