Talk:Defensive weapon

message: I am removing the statement "Or the criminal will act with greater, possibly lethal, force at the onset of the assault, so as not to risk anything" because this does not appear to be the case.  
1.  Interviews with criminals have shown that they fear armed victims more than police (http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Lott2.htm).  This is backed up by the far lower percentage if occupied home invasions in areas with permissive firearms laws.
2.  Even unarmed victims are likely to be seriously injured (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/sospi91.txt):
*28% of the violent inmates said they had killed their victims
*21% had raped or sexually assaulted them
*11% had inflicted major injuries, such as knife or bullet wounds, broken bones, and other internal injuries, or
had knocked them out
3.  Areas that have passed shall-issue concealed weapons laws have almost universally seen drops in violent crime, not increases in homicides related to robbery, while areas that have passed handgun bans have seen near universal increases in violent crime.
4.  Killing the victim of an armed robbery out of hand will definately get an assailant charged with first degree homicide, which in many areas brings the risk of capital punishment or incarceration without parole, which is certainly a greater risk than a lesser armed robbery conviction.  Also, gunfire is more likely to attract unwanted attention, and homicides are investigated far more vigorously than lesser crimes.
scot 19:57, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

message: I think the article would be helped by an explanation of the legality of using such weapons in countries across the world. 124.185.28.139 07:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legality 

message: Assuming we were to move the article to the title "weapons for self defense", I think that would change the tone.  It would be more of a list of characteristics and examples, which should be fairly easy to source; for example, there are going to be many articles on choosing a handgun for defensive carry, or a firearm for home defense, ammunition for various defensive uses, etc.  It could also list lethal vs. less-lethal alternatives, and include legal and statistical information.  For example, here's a good, recent source from the USDOJ that touches on the subject of defensive weapon use:  Guns and Crime: Handgun Victimization, Firearm Self-Defense, and Firearm Theft.  How's this for a potential section layout:
*Legal self defense; what is "self defense", in what situations is the use of force justified, and to what extent.
**Legal examples; Some examples what is justified, and where.
*Self defense environment; review crime victimization stats, see what circumstances are common (i.e. close range, low light)
*Less lethal weapons for defense; pepper spray, electroshock, batons, and the like.
*Lethal weapons for defense
**Knives; there are many marketed for defense, but their actual use is questionable and hard to document
**Firearms; note CCW issues, home defense, legal restrictions, DOJ stats on effectiveness of defensive use 
*Defense against animals; defense against dogs and wild animals (typically bears) is a concern for some people, and it does change the requirements.  A handgun suitable for defense against an armed robber isn't likely to deter an upset bear much at all...
Let me know what you think, and I'll see about a re-write soon.  scot (talk) 16:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I think rather than creating a new article the best solution might be to merge what is here into the Self-defense article; that article is quite anemic, and badly needs expansion in terms of what the various laws and recommendations are with respect to defensive use.  The Right of self-defense article deals more with the theoretical aspects (what self-defense constitutes, how the right is interpreted)- the Self-defense article could make a really good practical companion in terms of what is commonly used for self-defense, how it is taught, etc.  --Clay Collier (talk) 22:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Re-naming and re-purposing article

message: Okay, there seems to have been little progress on fixing the issues with this page, so I'm going to go ahead and redirect this to 'Self Defence'. I think there is a systemic issue here that 'Defensive weapon' is a term of language, not easily defined, and that the article as it currently is seeks to define it as one meaning, based on what appears to be Original Research. There is nothing unique to this article that isn't discussed elsewhere on wikipedia, and in more depth and with fuller context. --Barberio (talk) 05:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect to Self Defence