Talk:Tuxedo Mask/Archive 1

message: How much is the age gap between Usagi and Mamoru?  In the manga, would it be two years (Usagi is 16 at finish, he is 18), whereas in the anime would it be four years?  (he is 20) - Malkinann 09:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to "The Sailor Moon Role-Playing Game and Resource Book" Mamoru was born in 1974 and Usagi was born in 1978, which would put their ages at 20 and 16 respectively by the series' conclusion.    -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 17:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is their wedding in the manga a flash-forward, or do they actually get married at 16 and 18? (Very unusual in modern Japan! Though it's the ages my grandparents were. :D) --Masamage 19:18, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This does coincide with Japan's marriageable age.  I suppose her parents gave the okay.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 19:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

text: That's probably wrong though, since she says she's preganant in the manga, the line about a new star being born and they spent the night together in the engaement scene. Which means that it was 9 months to the wedding, which also means she was 21 when she was married. I have a scan too that makes it look like she's carrying more than the dress... --Hitsuji Kinno 16:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, she says she feels the new star will be born soon; that doesn't mean she's already pregnant, and sleeping in the same bed is no evidence either. It's possible, but it's not known for certain (though I havent seen that picture). Also, why would it be 9 months to the wedding? And then why does that skip her ahead five years? I don't get what you mean.  --Masamage 21:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: She's kind of naked in that picture... and he's not exactly wearing clothes either. Umm... but whatever... heavy naked make out session sleeping together is fine to surmise too. Anyhow, I'll put up the picture to this talk just for fan interest (Link only) rather than something to include to the page. And the spacing is more like 6-7 months, I would guess. Original manga OK, or you want shinzoubon? *snickers* In the Live Action Series, it did take him a number of years to propose, did it not? Kinda be in character not to explain what that ring was for... though that special was also a stab at Takeuchi's own wedding too and making fun of herself. (If you read her Punch! series). Besides that it can be up for debate, though predating TP release it was thought that she was pregnant at the wedding. Though premarital sex might be the driving issue behind the reason the view has changed, which is not uncommon in Japan since they are generally not a religious Judeo-Christian Society. 9I'd have sourcing for the last two facts) --Hitsuji Kinno 22:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that's fine. But why is she 21 for the wedding? I'm still confused. --Masamage 01:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Age gap

message: In the see also I added references for where she most likely got the idea for the Tuxedo which can't fit onto the main page. Item 1 is Prince Edward of England the VII If you look at the picture there, you will find that it looks *exactly* like the one in the manga. Next I added the Black Tie, which happens to connect the Henry Poole company to the Tuxedo and Prince Edward to that Tuxedo. In that you'll also find that there is a military application for the black tie, much like the Sailor Suits. *grins* I did a fan fiction based around this... so I did the research.. I don't know how to fit this in the article though... To note, though Henry Poole might also be responsible for popularizing the Sailor suit... since he was the tailor for the royal family. However, we can blame Prince Edward for both, and it was most likely when she went searching for Sailor suits, she found out about Prince Edward and his brand of the tuxedo, and visa versa (thus Smoking Jacket if you look up Henry Poole's website and then Le Smoking Bomber)... Interesting fact to know and tell. --Hitsuji Kinno 16:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where's the source that says the tuxedo was inspired by Prince Edward VII? I'm not doubting you; I'm sure you have it, I just can't figure out what it is. ^^;; --Masamage 04:53, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  O.o;; My browser must have crashed when I typed out a long answer to this. OK. On the Henry Poole website (older version) it said that Prince Edward the VII of England went to Henry Poole company who makes suits for a smoking Jacket. He wore it to Tuxedo Park where the "tuxedo" got its name. You can find the shortened version of the story here: http://www.henrypoole.com/henry_poole_story/the_tuxedo However I read an earlier version of this story which included things like the writer of Endymion, a novel was friends with Henry Poole (this is noted on the Black Tie section of wikipedia). However, the main evidence I wanted to point to on both pages is that Edward VII's tuxedo suspiciously looks like the one that Tuxedo Mask wears in the manga... look at the image here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Edward_vii_england.JPG and compare to these images: http://mangastyle.net/book1/1-cover.jpg http://mangastyle.net/book1/1-19-20A.jpg The broach looks strikingly similar. Also the Black Tie is said on the Black Tie page to have a military application, like the Sailor Suits of Japan. It was also popularized by Edward VII in this image: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AlbertEdward.jpg. This directly contributed to the use in costumes with children. XP So in another words he was a majority of the inspiration for the costume of the SM series. In summary there is a visible thread to how she could have found the information to it and a visible tribute in the choker of Tuxedo Mask. (His watch in the manga kind of looks like that broach too...). My trouble was where the hell do I fit this into the page, because it's obvious and considering she herself said she spent at least an hour a day in the Tokyo Library, I wouldn't doubt she would have found this with two points to find it from. (Sailor Suits and Tuxedos...) and even if not that Henry and Poole was friends with the author of Endymion, Benjamin Disraeli. If she was looking around for Endymion and found that book, and looked into the author (which happens with research) she could have found Henry Poole and Edward, but I think researching the origins of the Sailor Suit are more than likely which led her to Edward the VII. Anyway because it couldn't fit I put it into the other part... --Hitsuji Kinno 01:30, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tuxedo 

message: Ready set, go! Which name should we use throughout these articles?
I vote 'Mask', mostly because it's not a name, so why not translate it? There's no ambiguity about the translation, that I've ever seen. I might be dissuaded, but that's my initial feeling. --Masamage 00:43, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I second "mask".  Subtitles don't keep it as "kamen".  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 01:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: We should leave the original Japanese names in place.  For that, I support "Kamen". --  Denelson83  01:09, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Japanese names are one thing, but "Kamen" just means "Mask".  It's not meant to be a proper name. I say "Mask". Danny Lilithborne 01:17, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: For reference, "Tuxedo Mask" gets 88,300 google hits, while "Tuxedo Kamen" gets 34,600. --Masamage 01:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I side with google. --Kunzite 02:30, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: No, I can't.  All article names of characters use their Japanese names.  If we use "Mask" here, there would be no consistency. --  Denelson83  16:40, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not the article name--he'll still be Mamoru Chiba, and it'll still discuss the common use of both titles. This would be only for usage in other articles, out of context. The thing is that the Japanese names we use here actually are Westernized; if everything was thoroughly Japanese, he'd be listed as Chiba Mamoru. I'm also not sure his name is meant to be a big-deal mystical title. 'Sailor Moon' is very pointedly English even though the target audience was Japanese, so it seems like that ought to be her title no matter what language you dub her into. 'Kamen', though, is simply the local language. A person's name isn't just a word to translate, but Kamen feels like it is, because it's just describing his outfit. (I can totally see his brain working when Sailor Moon first asks who he is. "I'm, uh...crap. What should I say? ...Uh, Tuxedo? ...Mask? ...Wow, way to go, Chiba.") --Masamage 21:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: If we're going to use Japanese names for everyone, why not call him Taakuzido Kamen (or however that romanizes to)? Danny Lilithborne 21:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Takishīdo Kamen"  ;P  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 23:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Can't do that. English-language Wikipedia. --Masamage 18:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Good point, although I'd like to point out the Google hits: 52,700 versus 16,500. --Masamage 23:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd argue that in this case, they do mean the same thing. Danny Lilithborne 23:23, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

text: "Tuxedo Mask" has been used in some instances in a Japanese language version of the show. i.e. Here comes the Tuxedo Mask  --Kunzite 01:20, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Chibi can mean a host of things though, small, midget, dwarf. (Midget is closer). Chibi is actually derogatory and I would say part of the Japanese anime register, rather than an everyday word that you would find on the streets. But Kamen is in everyday Japanese and has only one meaning. There is no ambiguity to it. The reason we don't use Mini for Chibi Moon is because there are a ton of other meanings, as well as that's not a very accurate translation of the word. And I did learn Japanese, so I do understand the intricacies and I still vote in favor of Mask. Unless you want to go totally Japanese and do "Tuxedo Kamen-sama" which is actually his full title.... but that's far too Japanese for an English page. So since there are not multiple meanings and it wasn't translated wrong, Mask works just fine. --Hitsuji Kinno 02:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mask or Kamen? 

message: Though the power is not named there are indications of it in the anime as well. When Chibiusa touched his hand and just before he started to get those dreams from his future self he had a flash of Crystal Tokyo. This is a sign of psychometry where he picks up memories from an object or a person, which he seemed to do with Chibiusa. This again showed up later in the anime where he held and gave energy to Chibiusa in Super. There are a few minor instances, if I remember right besides those, but those are the two that would argue in favor of it being an unnamed, yet consistent power in the anime. It's also consistent in the manga, where it shows again, which Mamoru lending power to Chibiusa. And one could argue as well that Chibiusa has it because when she touches Chibichibi's hand she gets flashes of what happened to the other Sailor Soldiers. (Volume 18, I believe) But I'm leaving that off since it can be disputed. (i.e. she doesn't display the power before, so it could be Chibichibi, though clearly psychometry is involved.) Does anyone want to dispute this? Can I add it to the page with proper references and mentions? Or since it was not officially named should it be not added? --Hitsuji Kinno 06:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mamoru also used his healing powers on Fish-eye who had cut his hand on glass.  Hotaru also seems to be able to use these powers.  Once on Chibiusa, after she was attacked by Mimete's first Daimohn, and a reverse effect on the Daimohn Ubara (the rose monster).  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 07:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I think that sounds great. I'd say to be specific about it, making it clear that it happens much more in the manga (and is called by name, if it is). The very fact that Mamoru has those dreams is important too, especially since most of the Sailor Senshi remember absolutely nothing without Luna's help. --Masamage 19:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Makoto is the one who names it.  There was a guy who asked her if she and her friends were aliens.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 02:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Psychometry in Anime

message: Ok We need to change the PGSM image... Appently a few episodes after his appearance, the staff deciced to add a Blue Gem (or marble XD) to the top of his mask, with out any explanation. (I've been watching PGSM on Youtube since my Good PC is down)(Is it me or am I on an Image Kick?) Lego3400: The Sage of Time 22:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do we need to change it? :) It's just as legitimate as any other image. --Masamage 08:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you get a decent image of him with the jewel, but without the timestamp in the corner?  - Malkinann 07:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Arr, the timestamp! That would indeed be a good reason for change. --Masamage 07:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bam. --Masamage 08:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

text: My understanding is that you can put up digitally altered images on wikipedia, as long as you say that you edited it, and how.  (airbrushing out timestamp, eg.)  Good job, btw.  ;) But if the "jewel" look is more characteristic, then perhaps when we replace the current image, we should try for one with a jewel, without a timestamp.  - Malkinann 10:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what I think, too. Also, yeah, it looks great. :) If we want a jewel picture, I recommend this. If not, I like yours. --Masamage 17:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I switched them.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 22:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! --Masamage 23:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images... Again! 

message: unblock it now! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.240.230 (talk) 13:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  unblock 

message: *Anime or Manga Endymion
*Pgsm Endymion
*PGSM Dark Endymion  
*Anime or Manga King Endymion
*Moonlight Knight
*Replace Manga image with civillan manga image.
Thats all i think we need...Lego3400:  The Sage of Time 02:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't need all of those, I don't think. Just one Prince Endymion should be sufficient; there's not a whole lot of variation. --Masamage 04:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I have issues with all three of the images you just added. The PGSM one is bleached out, the King one is busy with other stuff, and the Moonlight Knight one is cropped out of something that's still invading at the edges--besides which it's incorrectly licensed, because that is not a screenshot, it's a clipping from a magazine we'll never be able to find and source.  The first and last need to be replaced and I am still not convinced that we need King Endymion or can justify such an image as fair use. --Masamage 20:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's a thought: using the same image on Usagi's and Mamoru's articles. --Masamage 21:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Okay, I found a cleaner image for Moonlight Knight and put that up, plus a much less grainy shot of Prince Endymion. It's still too white for my tastes, but at least it's easier to see him. Took forever to find, though; nobody cares about the poor guy. --Masamage 02:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Mayyybe.... Let's hold off on that one under we get this page reorganized, 'cause then it'll be easier to tell if there's a proper place for it. --Masamage 22:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: A number of songs featuring Mamoru's character have been released.
From the anime, sung by Tōru Furuya:
:*"Toki wo Koete..." (Crossing Time)- Solo from the anime, first series
:*"You are Just My Love"- A duet with Usagi, from Another Love (a short audio drama.)
From the musicals, sung by various actors:
:*"Bara no Himitsu"(Secret of the Rose) 1993 Sailor Moon musical
:*"Waltz ni Koi wo Nosete" (Love on a Waltz) (duet with Princess Serenity) 1993 Sailor Moon musical
:*"Tuxedo Royale/Tuxedo Loyal" From Shin / Henshin - SUPAA Senshi e no Michi, RASUTO DORAKURU Jokyoku
:*"Tuxedo Mission"
:*"Double Moonlight Romance" (sings with Chibiusa, Pegasus and Usagi in 1995 musical), (sings with Usagi, King Endymion and Chibi Chibi in 1998 musical) and (sings with Usagi and Chibiusa in 2004 musical) From 1995 SuperS musical
:*"Miracle Twister"
:*"And Believe in All" (duet with King Endymion in Kaguya Shima Densetsu Kaiteban)
:*"You're My Jewelry" (duet with Usagi)
:*"I Do Justice"
:*"Okaasan te Nan darou" (sings with Chibiusa, Cook, Hook and Mick in 1999 musicals) and (sings with Chibiusa, Hook and Mick in 2004 musical)
:*"Here Comes the Tuxedo Mask"
:*"Tuxedo Versus"
:*"Prince of the Earth" From Legend of the Shooting Stars.
:*"Moonlight Justice" (sings with Sailor Moon, Sailor Uranus, Sailor Neptune, Sailor Pluto and Sailor Saturn)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 15:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music Storage 

message: Alright, I'll give what I know about the citations... but I think it needs verifying or looking into. These are trickier because they are scattered.
* Name (Japanese): 地場まもる Chiba Mamoru
Pretty sure we can use the materials collection for this one, primary manga reference would be act 3, where he introduces himself on the bus.
* Name (North America): Darien (dub), Darien Shields (English manga)
The Darien Shields needs a reference, I think again act 3, Mixx manga, mines off across the country though. --;;
* Senshi alias: Tuxedo Mask
Materials Collection, probably second appearance? maybe first. She had a habit of coming up with titles and attacks late.
* Birthday: August 3
First appearance, was the first time that Usagi and Mamoru had a little spat in volume 6? It's the act where she asks about his birthday and then they *at least* have a heavy make out session. 'cause his shirt came off. Was mentioned in the Materials collection too.
* Astrological sign: Leo
Not directly mentioned, unless in Materials Collection. But not hard to figure out either based on previous birthday.
* Blood type: A I'm sure this is mentioned.. maybe Materials Collection, maybe fan book, maybe act 3 or 4?
* Favorite colors: Black
That might be an anime book thing.. Got it from Ken Aromdee. I don't remember it showing up in the manga off hand.
* Hobbies: reading
I can't remember where this came from. I'm pretty sure it said reading, not reading books.
* Favorite food: Chocolate
I'm pretty sure this showed up manga side, but I can't remember where... maybe it was a side story, probably in anime guide books too.
* Favorite subject: Physics
Ken Aromdee... don't remember it in the manga.. might be somewhere.
* Least favorite food: None
Anime books?
* Worst subject: None
I think this is a Takeuchi-sensei thing, again, I blank from where.. Ken Aromdee also has it in his FAQ, but there must be a base source.
* Has trouble with: other people arguing (anime)
Not officially listed manga... needles was mentioned in the episode with Ami. Ironically this is a theme in a lot of Toei male characters who end up wearing pink shirts... Goku wore a pink shirt once and he was afraid of needles as well. ^_^ First appearance of having trouble with arguing shows up in the curry episode of SMR and in the manga volume 10 back matter a picture done by Ikuko Itoh where he's sweat dropping and doesn't know what to do.
* Dreams: To protect the Earth with Usagi (manga), to become a doctor (anime)
Dream in the manga, I think it was supported in the act where they got younger and were shown Elysion... the doctor comment can be supported in the manga with the going to medical school, however, this isn't a real established dream, only a hoped profession. In the anime, I think it was the same episode with the needle, but I have a stronger feeling that it had to be later, because I remember he said at one point he didn't know what he wanted to be and had a variety of high-end subjects on his shelf. (I believe this is the episode where he helps them out, but they really wanted to escape the heat).
* Guardian planet: The Earth
Easily supported, anywhere in the dream arc.
* Element: Earth
Also dream arc, may first appear first arc, end of series where he uses his powers to check if the Earth is OK and says it's a little scratched, but the dream arc will have better support... somewhere.
* Height: 173 cm / 5'8"
use same references as the ones in Ami.
* Age: 17-18 to 19-20 (Manga), 20-21 to 22-23 (Anime) throughout main storyline
First age established at Act 3, second age divined by Usagi aging 2 years, and the anime age given by the fact he's said to be a college student, first by Motoki, then stated by the girl that had a crush on him during, I think the Super arc. Note that the age though was a confusion from the manga where there was a character named Endou who was in college and was taken over/killed/disappeared then Mamoru assumed his identity, making him best friends with Motoki, and a college student... since Motoki was already said to be in college by Reika of the manga. Thus Mamoru's backstory was changed anime-side to make him a college student in that *cough* classic green jacket which in the manga looks like a really cool black jacket...
I need episodes though... and to verify sources.. *sighs* and I need to do Nanowrimo too... I have a test tomorrow. --Hitsuji Kinno 09:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Comfirmin' your references: Act 3 is right for the names, and Act 1 is right for his title. The Materials Collection doesn't have his birthday, so it must be Volume 6 (which I don't have). When Luna looks him up in Act 4, she doesn't have his birthdate or blood type. The anime talks about how he can't decide which subject to focus on in school, sometime in early S. I can find that if you like. And your age thing is correct! :) The other stuff I don't know off hand. --Masamage 20:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The episode where he says that he's into studying a lot of things is the one where Usagi gets drunk.  "Usagi's dance is the Waltz", I think.  - Malkinann 12:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right! Thank you. :) ("Mamo-chan to paatii!! Demo, Eigo... Mamo-chan to paatii!! Demo, Eigo...") --Masamage 19:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We just need the rest of the references... In that episode too she asked what their first kiss was... ^^;; Makes a great trivia question because their official first kiss was in an episode that wasn't counted later in the series. If you throw in the curve ball of the first kiss where Kotono Mitsuishi did the voicing, it makes it even more geeky! ^.~ No wonder poor Mamoru is confused. *which one*. They kiss much earlier in the manga. *shrugs* not wikipedia friendly though.--Hitsuji Kinno 01:00, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hee hee. To say nothing of the Silver Millennium! :D --Masamage 02:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait!  She asked him about their first kiss in the episode where Unazuki was attacked.  The "Three-way Battle" episode.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 17:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hitsuji, which first kiss do you refer to, when you say it wasn't "counted"?  In the first season, they kissed on the balcony while she was "drunk" - the English dub turned this into a dream but it was real in the Japanese anime.  I always took Mamoru's reticence in the three-way battle episode as realizing he remembers an earlier first kiss than she probably remembers.  Anyway, they didn't kiss again in season 1.  In season 2, they kiss in episode 60 after their boat trip, and this is a "real" kiss between their civilian identities, sober, with full awareness of each other.  She may be assuming that is their first kiss, whereas Mamoru may know otherwise.   Episode 44 I count as Prince Endymion and Princess Serenity kissing, not their first kiss as Usagi/Mamoru.  Also, there's nothing saying that that is the first time the Prince and Princess kissed (unlikely, to be honest).  So I don't take Episode 44 as a first anything.  Can you clarify which kiss you were thinking of?  (The balcony scene was while Kotono was voicing... Araki was voicing during the Princess Serenity kiss but again that's not a "first" kiss) 72.192.237.134 17:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

text: "Would not be right" doesn't really enter the picture; Japanese culture is less stringent about that sort of thing. But yes, that is his probable age range. --Masamage ♫ 01:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: so you mean yes to his age range probably being 18-20 in the anime? i understand what you mean about japanese culture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.72.155.181 (talk) 19:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Most people assume that is the age range, yes, and it makes sense. I wish we could find an official source on it. (I think it's mentioned in the manga that he's a college freshman, but that's as much detail as we get. He could even be 17.) --Masamage ♫ 21:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation of stats issues

message: he use teleporting a lot in the anime when he walks away and just disepers like in R when he was being cold to usagi he would just disapere--♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 08:58, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty sure that's just a stylistic thing. --Masamage ♫ 17:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  teleport 

message: Psychometry, the ability to get information from the objects you touch. This was shown when he touched the Earth at the end of the first arc, again when he touched Chibiusa (manga and anime) and started to get flashes of the future. He also has the power to heal, which Takeuchi-sensei listed as psychometry, but I'm fairly sure this isn't the case. I believe it's called something else. He showed this in the anime and manga when he linked his lifeforce to Chibiusa through touch. He also healed Asanuma much like Hotaru does for Chibiusa. (Getting the proper name of this power would be useful.) He also does that rose circle throw in the Super episode before Venus showed up as Sailormoon in the anime that looked an awful lot like Jupiter's Flower Hurricane in the manga. I'm not sure if that's worth mentioning, but it can be a subsection of the regular rose throw since it had no words. In the early episode where we see him half transform for the first time, I think he disappears there when Sailormoon transforms. However later episodes seem to contradict this since he's with Chibiusa in the curry episode and doesn't involuntarily disappear. Did I miss anything? --Hitsuji Kinno 00:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: he had that rose that broke beryl's body with hos love for Usagi ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 09:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's just part of the roses that break concrete and stuff. --Masamage ♫ 15:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional Powers 

message: After a bit of searching with Lunar Archivist we came up with this: Psychokinesis
Biological healing (which Mamoru displayed on Asanuma)and the transference of life energy (on Chibiusa) is a sub section of psychokinesis. (as supposed to telekinesis which is the transference of matter). Biological healing is not the same thing as psychometry... I hope that's not too much original research. I was looking for something to explain what was already presented in the series rather than trying out a new theory... should this be added? Be useful at least in Hotaru's article. --Hitsuji Kinno 04:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The other powers besides psychometry

message: Please be aware of the discussion at WP:SM about moving this article to the title Tuxedo Mask. --Masamage ♫ 19:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Consensus seems to have been reached, so here goes! I'll move it, then rewrite the lead, then clean redirects and such. --Masamage ♫ 02:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay...I got hesitant about this one because Tuxedo Mask is genuinely just a pseudonym, not a real name at all. So I ran a Google search on "mamoru chiba" OR "chiba mamoru" OR "darien chiba" OR "darien shields" and got 36,700; then I ran another on "tuxedo mask" OR "tuxedo kamen" and got 599,000. So I guess I'd better go ahead with the move for now. X) But, any comments about that thing I paused to worry about? --Masamage ♫ 03:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed move to Tuxedo Mask

message: I believe Takeuchi-sensei said in a liner note that the seiyuu, Tohru-san had an adlib for episode 35 where Tuxedo Mask transforms... and he said Tuxedo, Make up! as a joke. She said she was there... ^^;; I wonder if the Live Action is making an in-joke about that. I laughed hard *because* of the in-joke... it wouldn't be the first time either since she made odd ball references to her wedding in the Usagi and Mamoru Wedding Special. She said in her Punch! that she and Togashi would break up before the wedding for silly reasons then Togashi would get on his knees and propose again... she also said she refused him several times because the feeling wasn't right... in her own words: http://www.kurozuki.com/takeuchi/punch/trans/round03.html (Propose Punch!)
Narration:      When did he propose? When did you decide to marry him? I'm often asked that, but...
Naoko:          I don't really remember how many times he proposed before I decided to marry him.
Yoshihiro:      What!? You didn't decide to the first time I proposed to you?? Isn't it normally like that?
Narration:      Winter. The first time was one or two months after we started seeing each other.
Naoko and Yoshihiro are in bed together.
Naoko:          Hey, hey, how about you say, "Please become my bride in Yamagata-ken?"
''
Yoshihiro sweats.''
Yoshihiro:      You marry me... Me get married...
Narration:      I was interested in Yamagata-ken, so I asked him as a joke.
Yoshihiro:      What!? But I was serious about it!
***
Narration:      Winter. The third time, after we were engaged, we had a big fight.
Yoshihiro:      Will you be my bride? I'm sorry!
Narration:      The fourth time, again after a big fight.
Yoshihiro:      One more time, will you please marry me? I'm sorry!
Narration:      Repeat times three and four.
Yoshihiro:      Seems like every time we fight, my desire to propose influences my words of reconciliation.
hahaha. 'cause Makoto in PGSM said Again? after Usagi announced the wedding was off.... and it seems very close to Takeuchi-sensei's own experience. As for the tuxedo, Make Up Quote, I'll have to ask Alex Glover to repost the liner notes...--Hitsuji Kinno 16:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tuxedo Power! 

message: Walking around an immensely nerdy store this afternoon, I found a copy of Animerica that mentioned Sailor Moon. Specifically, it stated that Takeuchi had based Tuxedo Mask on dark, gritty heroes like Captain Harlock. The issue was September 2003, Vol. 11, No. 9. We'll pop that into the appropriate section along with whatever info we can find. --Masamage ♫ 22:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tuxie is Takeuchi's ideal man :) -Malkinann (talk) 02:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But her type changed... ^^;; Togashi is not like Tuxie, as she said...--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 02:51, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Development note 

message: Mamoru Chiba is the major romantic interest of Usagi Tsukino. He is often portrayed as stoic, steady and introverted. "This may be because when he was young his parents died in a car crash." Volume 2, Act 6, R movie.
'''
This blocked his childhood memories of his current lifetime and opened up the memories of his previous life as Prince Endymion. 
It caused amnesia, but ther is no direct support for a complete block.
When this happened he started to chase after Princess Serenity, an image he sees in his dreams.
Nope, he saw her in his dreams. He didn't start chasing after the ginzuishou, etc until later.
 Early in the manga, he seeks the Silver Crystal, as he is convinced that this will restore his memories fully. He also is the character that gets brainwashed and captured the most throughout the series.
*Cough* Even by himself in the anime at one point. (That's sad when you are brainwashed by yourself...)
Mamoru and Usagi are boyfriend and girlfriend during the series. They were not always on good terms--in both the manga and anime he and Usagi were antagonistic towards each other when they first met and only developed romantic feelings later on.
Volume 1, Act 1, Usagi throws a test paper at him and he makes fun of it, similar to Episode 1 of the anime.
 For the manga those feelings developed before their identities were discovered
Act 3, Volume 1.
; for the anime they showed shortly before their identities were revealed in an elevator.
Need Episode #
 Once they became a couple, they became deeply devoted to each other and their love survives many trials.
In the manga they briefly show jealousy in Volume 8, Act 25. For example the break up in Episode X, and getting back together in X. Also through the various brainwashing incidents in both the manga and anime. (Citations, Endou/Dark Endymion in Sailormoon, Not remembering in first half of R, the break up in R, The fight in Infinity, missed dates and jealousy in S, the fight in the SuperS movie, Stars and Sailorstars, going to Harvard and subsequent brainwashing by Galaxia in the manga.)
He is always addressed as Mamo-chan by Usagi throughout the series during this time period (Chibiusa also addresses him with this nickname later on). After dating for two years, Mamoru gives Usagi an engagement ring at an airport. The couple eventually gets married.
Volume 16, Act 43.
In the future, they become king and queen and together have a child--Chibiusa.
Technically they call her Small Lady Serenity when they become king and queen. It's Mamoru of the past that calls her Chibiusa in the manga and in the anime Usagi that gives her the nick name, but Chibiusa only accepts it once Mamoru thinks that it's cute. But this isn't easy to resolve.
The manga develops Mamoru more extensively, showing that the car crash happened on his birthday and gives a glimpse of his parents. It also shows him in the orphanage with amnesia.
Volume 2, Act 4
Mamoru also struggles with his identity throughout the manga, first as who he really is,
Volume 2, Act 4.
then later if he's in the way of the Sailor Soldiers.
Volume 12, Act ?
A fair amount of subtle characterization is made for Mamoru, and later extending his role within the manga as to who he is.
Volume 15, Act 42
He also is given the power of psychometry, which also showed up in the anime, but was not given a name.
Volume 5, Act 23, Episode (In SMR, second half, first episode?)
This manifests in his ability to see and read dreams (Such as Chibiusa's), heal people and monitor the status of the Earth. This was not fully developed until the Black Moon arc, and was used occasionally throughout the series. Mamoru also has his left ear pierced in the manga, a fashion trait that does not carry over to his anime counterpart.
The anime tends not to develop Mamoru as much, however he is shown as more social than his manga counterpart. He's incredibly smart, and interested in a variety of subjects. He also dated Rei Hino for a short time before all the past life identities were revealed, but the relationship did not develop very deeply; Rei and Mamoru broke up after it was discovered that Usagi was Princess Serenity.
Super, The episode with the ambassadors from England... ^^;; I don't remember the number. Rei and Mamoru dated about 2 episodes in after Rei was introduced. This is said to be done by Ikuhara on purpose according to Hitoshi Doi's website. In fact, Hitoshi Doi says that most of the changes to Rei in the anime were Ikuni's doing. Rei and Usagi had a heart to heart about the break up in the skiing episode.
Tuxedo Mask's importance in the manga is significantly larger. In fact, many of Sailor Moon's transformations and final victories come as a result of her and Tuxedo Mask fusing their powers together. In the final battle against the Dark Kingdom, Queen Metaria absorbed Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask into her body. However, they were able to combine their powers through the Silver Crystal to destroy Queen Metaria from within. This was essentially the inspiration for the climax of the Sailor Moon R movie when Tuxedo Kamen transformed into Prince Endymion and helped Sailor Moon use the Silver Crystal to prevent an asteroid from crashing into the Earth. In the second story arc Black Moon, he combined his power with Sailor Moon through the Cutie Moon Rod to kill Prince Demand of the Black Moon Kingdom. In the Infinity story arc, he combined his powers with both Sailor Moon and Sailor Chibimoon to create the Holy Grail, transforming Sailor Moon into Super Sailor Moon.
Volume 5, Act 13 for the merging of power with Metaria. However, I never read anything about this being the inspiration for the SMR movie. Ikuni never said anything like that. Need an act number for The Prince Demand. And I don't remember him putting any power into Super Sailor Moon. He did however put in power for Eternal Sailor Moon, lending the power of the Golden Crystal to her. That's Volume 15, Act 42.
The major divergence from the manga was in the dreams he was given during the latter half of the Sailor Moon R series. Mamoru listened to those dreams about Usagi dying in the future and was susceptible to them. This changes the perception of the character from his manga counterpart as more sacrificial, rather than stoic and emotionally strong. The anime also tends to make him appear in every episode, saving Sailor Moon's life. He did have a few attacks that resemble what would seem like some of the attacks in the manga, but these are not given actual names within the anime. This makes Mamoru and Tuxedo Mask seem significantly weaker than his manga counterpart.
Need wording clean up. Specify the anime otherwise it falls into in-universe. The third sentence is more opinion... even if its disguised opinion. The rest of the paragraph needs basic revision and specific examples. However I don't know what its fishing for and its a touch repetitive with the information before.
The dub did not make too many significant changes to his character. He is a bit more extroverted than his original anime counterpart in the voicing. Darien was more likely to yell and get annoyed than Mamoru of the anime, who was often quiet and distant, even when he was annoyed. A line was also added to an episode in the dub that claimed Darien used to be a model, but this was never referred to again. The original line had Mamoru talking about the attractiveness of a girl's character being more important than physical beauty.[citation needed]
Better specific examples are needed.
In the musicals, Mamoru protects Usagi and is generally by her side. Several of his relationships change from musical to musical, however. For example, in one musical it's revealed that Queen Beryl was Mamoru's fiancé from his time as Prince of the Earth. Associating with the Moon Kingdom was against Earth law, and Endymion violated this law when he associated with Princess Serenity. In this version of events, Serenity and Endymion are outlaws (similar to Romeo and Juliet) who drive an otherwise innocent woman, Beryl, to evil by making her jealous. Sailor Pluto also reveals in several musicals that she is in love with Endymion, though she has contented herself with watching from afar.[2]
Specify which musicals. We need a musical buff on the team. Which musical was it that the Queen Beryl thing happened? And what's another example from a specific musical?
In the live action version, Mamoru is a much more silent, yet dedicated person. He is in search of the Silver Crystal due to his amnesia and dreams that told him that the magical object could restore his memories. To do this, he donned the Tuxedo Kamen disguise and became a thief, searching for the legendary crystal. Once his memories of his past and present lives were restored, he assumed his Endymion form to help the Senshi and tried his best to protect Usagi from the dangers of overusing the Silver Crystal. However, this went a bit too far when he joined the Dark Kingdom to understand more of the link between the Silver Crystal and Metaria. Learning that the Silver Crystal made Metaria stronger every time Sailor Moon used it, Endymion took Metaria into his body before succumbing to its dark power. Now an evil parody of himself, Dark Prince Endymion, he almost killed Sailor Mercury when Sailor Moon was forced to kill him to stop Metaria. He was revived once Sailor Moon managed to finally control the Crystal's power and destroyed Metaria for good.
Second line needs reference. Line after is from episode 1. Need episode # for next sentence and the sentence after. Second to last also needs episode number.
I need to write an go to bed now. But when the page becomes unlocked, most of the references needed are listed above. I did it off the top of my head with manga in hand.
One last note though... Furuya Tohru said that he influenced Tuxedo Mask as a goofy character after he said, "Do you want a ride" which was a reference to an anime... however this is a video interview. Any ideas about how to cite that? I think it belongs in the development section.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 07:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dang unlock happens on the 9th. If its a video interview, just state the name of the video + maybe a site that shows it? I dunno about that. About the musicals, I haven't gotten as far back as ANZA's stage (first stage) but from Shin Densetsu Kourin right up to Mugen Gakuen I probably know most stuff from there. The musical which you are looking for the Beryl Mamoru fiancé thing would be Shin Densetsu Kourin, Fumina's first musical. Sailor Pluto also sang Onna no Ronsou in that musical, arguing with Queen Beryl. Pluto's theme song "Stay Alone" is about how she has to stay alone for eternity due to duties and cannot have love bla bla bla so she contented herself by watching from afar. --Hanaichi 14:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps video interviews could be cited via ? -Malkinann (talk) 20:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Note taking... until there is an unlock... 

message: I'm going to be bold and unlock this article early. Check the user pages of the "people" whose changes are being reverted--they're all sockpuppets of User:Kagome85, and as such reverting them is a prevention of vandalism, thereby not subject to WP:3RR. --Masamage ♫ 19:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Unlocking

message: I added a bunch of references, but they probably are messy, so they need a good cleaning. Anyone willing to do so can do so. Also since the references list is getting long, I think its time to split it into the fated two columns. Once the live Action references are in there... well, it'll be fairly long (even with cleaned up references).
I did a general sweep for fan opinions in his profile. Any disputes, go ahead and dispute them. I mainly shifted wording away from he's the coolest character ever in this version to the more neutral voice.
I also added a thing in development from Furuya Tohru-san, but the reference probably isn't in the right order. I can't remember off hand where the "I'm driving" has a reference to, but I'm sure it's from another anime. I think we're almost there... almost to GA with a few grammar sweeps and a few more references. ^_^--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 05:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the youtube link, as it's kind of iffy... -Malkinann (talk) 23:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose just stating the interview and when was it held is OK for referencing the Furuya Tohru thing.--Hanaichi 10:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added references, etc 

message: Aspects and forms, get the references for that and I think we can request an upgrade for this puppy. 'Bout time. The leading man should get a good rating too.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 05:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, we're getting there. I also think there's a little too much plot information in the profile and aspects sections, so let's slim those down while we're at it? --Masamage ♫ 17:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm better at references than culling for plot overload. Could you do that Masamage? I'm not sure what the standards are 100%--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 18:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: One More section!

message: I'm just missing a few references. (PGSM). I tried to chop out all of the wrong info, opinionated and anything that seemed misplaced or unnecessarily repetitive. I also cut out run-ons, fragments and other bad grammar. It should be fairly clean by now. Just plug in the rest of the references, and perhaps we can see what we need to do to clean this up for GA. Also can someone cut out the unnecessary plot info. I did what I could... but it's still a bit too detailed.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 22:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: One comment: I cannot figure out what the Furuya Tohru paragraph under "development" is talking about. I get that it's saying the character became more comical because of the voice actor's ad-libbing, but beyond that I'm confused. --Masamage ♫ 02:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a reference to another anime. I have to re-find the interview to remember which anime/Sentai series it was. Probably could use it for clarification.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 20:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Crap, a note said it was related to one of his previous characters. O.o;; But which one, he had some many roles before SM!!!--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 19:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culling and basic edits 

message: In PGSM when Endymion absorbs Queen Metalia into his body he becomes the being know as Metalia Endymion. Thoughts? --Buritanii (talk) 14:09, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We currently have it credited as Dark Prince Endyimon. If you can find a source for either it would be helpful. Lego3400:  The Sage of Time (talk) 18:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the article itself currently identifies him as Metaria Endymion, and that's what I remember them calling hmi in the show. Looks like the infobox is wrong. I'll fix it. --Masamage ♫ 00:16, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metalia Endymion