Talk:Comparison of integrated development environments/Archive 1

message: I wonder what we are trying to achieve with that page.. Providinng a good list of available IDE's per language to inform? 
If so, I suggest that we try to establish that list here, then update and clean-up the article.
I can see a few discrepancies, and there are issues about the definition of what is an IDE (already debated below).
I agree that source code editor should not be considered IDE: IMHO the IDE article would also need beefing up to make sure we agree on a good definition before listing IDEs here. 
See integrated development environment
What do you think?
Pombredanne 18:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to make this article better ?

message: A merge from the List article into the Comparison article would create a larger, much more categorized list of IDE's. -Gimmekat 23:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded. If nothing else, the list should lose the categorization attempt and simply be...a list. Cheezmeister 22:17, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: I cannot make head or tails on what the release date for the last stable release of this IDE is. I assumed it would be launched in conjunction with an update on Netbeans seeing how SJSE is based off of it, but this needs to be verified/fixed ASAP. -Gimmekat 04:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sun Java Studio Enterprise IDE 

message: what about Quincy!!!
:Well, exactly. What is Quincy? Where do you get it? What can you do with it? This is Wikipedia; edit it! peterl 22:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quincy!! 

message: i think size should be compared too, i would rather have a IDE thats no bigger than 100 megabytes, than one that could ballon to over a gigabyte with plugins.
:On the face of it, this is true. But a problem arises when you start filling out that field -- how do you count the size of the program? If plugins are counted against the size, what about IDEs that are written in Java, should they count the JVM? And programs that use a platform-neutral widget toolkit, they would essentially be penalized for not running native Windows controls, for example. How much space is expressly used by the IDE often depends on the individual user. Plus, some IDEs come in different packages like a minimal version and an enterprise edition, which one do you count? Do you measure size by the installer/zip archive, or the installed footprint? What if program files are very small, but user-created data files are abnormally large? I think size is gray enough an area that, even if you chose a criteria, it would eventually become not useful. And, finally, some of it would likely run afoul of WP:OR. Ham Pastrami 06:01, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Specially since that in commercial compilers, the bulk of those MBs is something like MSDN and a lot of by-tools (internationalization tools, helpfile authors etc), and not the base development system itself. Moreover, most don't require a full install (except for a few .NETs that require large MSDN redistributables that they only use for a small %) Counting those would make the comparison like apples and oranges. 88.159.74.100 15:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  size 

message: I think that we should apply the same arguments about Eclipse to Netbeans. There is a difference between the "Netbeans platform" and "Netbeans IDE".Ramiro Pereira de Magalhães (talk) 17:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Netbeans is not and IDE 

message: In keeping with WP:N and WP:LIST#Criteria_for_inclusion_in_lists I think it would be prudent to exercise some discretion as to which IDEs are actually placed in these lists. I think the easiest and fairest way to do this is to check if the IDE has a WP article in good standing (that is, an article that has established the subject's notability and is not due for speedy deletion). Otherwise, we will inevitably get a lot of no-name and self-promoting entries that only serve to clutter the list. To start, I will remove entries that have no WP article at all (i.e. are only linked externally). Ham Pastrami 08:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion criteria 

message: I would like to propose some changes to the organizational structure of the chart, and before doing so I'd like to get feedback from others who use and/or help to maintain this article.
* Removal of "Latest stable release". This puts an undue strain on the maintenance of the chart, as I don't think people consider release date to be a first-tier consideration, i.e. this IDE is perfect for my needs, but the latest release is a month old so I'm going to pass. It is relevant for an IDE to be reasonably up-to-date, but this is a detail that the user can probably afford to check on his own after picking some candidates.
* Removal of "Author". I don't think this is relevant at all to the function of the IDE, unless a person is looking for a specific IDE "made by so-and-so", in which case they aren't really interested in a comparison of IDEs but rather a list of de facto IDEs.
* Replacement of "Proprietary" license type. I think this plays too much into the duality of proprietary vs open source. Let's instead state specifically what kind of proprietary license it is -- shareware, freeware, shrinkwrap, etc and only resort to "proprietary" if it is difficult to describe.
* Addition of "Feature" fields. Right now, IMO the biggest piece of information that is missing is the feature set of the IDE, such as whether it includes a GUI builder. I'm thinking of adding fields that would work like this:
Existing fields	Features           	Features               	Features   	Features
Existing fields	Syntax highlighting	Build chain integration	GUI builder	Code documentation
blah blah      	                   	                       	           	
Ham Pastrami 04:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about we keep a uniform month/year stamp for the latest release, so that there is an idea of how active the development is, without having to include the details of version numbers? At least, to me it doesn't seem like comparing version numbers from two different programs really makes sense. Ham Pastrami 10:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Since there have been no more comments, I am removing version numbers from the table. The uniform display will be month and year. BTW, all information in these tables should be derived from their WP articles. The idea is that this article exists to organize information that has already been sourced and verified (or at least, is not disputed). If there is contention over the facts, take it to the IDE's article rather than using these tables as a soapbox. Ham Pastrami 22:13, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am in favor of adding a features area. I can implement it for all Pascal IDE, but I would like to wait until all languages have at least a skeleton of the features part. Why hasn't this idea gone forward? --194.39.218.10 (talk) 14:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fields in chart 

message: I am removing references to Cygwin in the tables. Rationale is that Cygwin is a porting tool, not a platform itself.
* If the developer provides Cygwin-generated binaries, then they are Windows programs. Just list them as such.
* If a user is able to port Linux software himself using Cygwin, then ALL such software is potentially a Cygwin program, and you do not need to state this explicitly. Just list them as Linux programs.
Ham Pastrami 09:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cygwin 

message: Is there a reason why ReportLab is mentioned in this page? It's just a library to generate PDFs.
-- Jan Niehusmann, 5 December 2007  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.79.64.57 (talk) 12:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ReportLab is not an IDE 

message: Once again, I see that most of the dates listed for Latest release have fallen behind the actual releases. So again I propose that the field be removed since it is unlikely that editors will ever be inclined to stay on top of these things for all of the entries (and if you don't stay on top for ALL of the entries, then the comparison is moot). Ham Pastrami (talk) 04:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date field 

message: Please only put full-fledged IDEs, rather than list text-editors that
just happen to you let run command-line programs such as g++ from within the IDE.
For this reason, I removed Geany since after downloading the Windows verison and playing around with it for a while, it seems clear that it doesn't have many build/compiling features. (I don't know the features the Linux version has.) However, Geany certainly fits the criteria of a source code editor. See source code editor. If anyone wants to make a separate page for advanced/powerful source code editors, Geany and others such as TextMate would fall easily into that category.
I know the distinction is often unclear, so please respond here first if you have any issues with this. Thanks -Hyad 01:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Does anyone want to comment on Geany being re-added to the list? I haven't used it myself, but since there was a previous objection to it, it would be courteous to at least state your views if you prefer to have it included. Ham Pastrami (talk) 19:55, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

text: That ultimately shouldn't concern this article -- it's either an IDE or it isn't. Whether it falls under criteria for RAD is more appropriate for an article on RAD tools. If desired, you could list RAD as a feature for comparison, but as you say that would require establishing criteria. Ham Pastrami (talk) 19:55, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  IDE vs. source code editor 

message: there is some small difference between some ide and text editors specialy for Emacs and VI
by the way on the linux platform some pure text editors like kate/kwrite could be added because they have an exelent syntax highlighting and you just need to type a command in a console for launching or compiling your program  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.27.16.225 (talk) 00:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The point of an integrated DE is that it eliminates as much as possible the need to do things like type in commands or install/configure separate tools. Source editors can be very good at what they do, but they're not IDEs. Another way to look at it is that you can either discuss each component individually (editor, make, compiler, gui builder, debugger) or discuss them as a whole (IDE). In fairness, though, I wonder if CDT should even qualify as an IDE, as it too is basically a source editor only. What does CDT do that a standalone source editor doesn't? Ham Pastrami (talk) 20:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Question answered. Ham Pastrami (talk) 03:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ide and Text editors 

message: The Eclipse Foundation is a not-for-profit organization like the Apache Foundation. The staff employed by the foundation do not write the code for the plug-ins and frameworks that are available from eclipse.org. I don't think it's proper to credit them as being the "Developers" of the various IDEs that are built on top of Eclipse. Is there some proper way to credit the "Community"? --Remy Suen (talk) 22:29, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A valid point, but one of semantics. You're right that, for example, the authors of CDT might not be EF employees, but at the same time, we aren't claiming that CDT is an IDE; rather, it is an extension by which Eclipse is a C/C++ IDE. This could be another good reason to remove the field entirely from this article, as discussed above. Ham Pastrami (talk) 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crediting the Eclipse Foundation 

message: I'm thinking we may need to prune or spinoff J2EE IDEs from the Java list. J2EE is really part of an entire server platform, which should really be compared against each other, not against general-purpose Java IDEs. Or we could do something with the fields to better indicate this, but I think that just makes it needlessly complex. There's already a list of J2EE#Certified application servers. I think it's best to leave J2EE there. Comments? Ham Pastrami (talk) 16:25, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Java vs J2EE 

message: The cost field is currently the messiest part of the table. It's worth noting that vendors often have big charts of their own just to compare various editions and their prices, so it may be impossible to cleanup the table and preserve all of the information. Here are some suggestions, please comment on them or propose your own.
*Show single price if the product only has one edition or price. Otherwise use "variable" and have the reader perform further research on his own. This is ideally clean, but loses some information.
*Reduce pricing information to a range. This eliminates the price-per-edition messiness while retaining some idea of the possible price ranges. If a company offers a free version and an enterprise edition, and intermediate versions in between, this will all be rolled into a single range of "$0 - $10,000".
*Remove cost field entirely. This places the responsibility of doing cost research on the reader. However, you can still kind of distinguish price range by looking at the license type. For example, open source licenses usually imply cost-free software.
Ham Pastrami 23:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cost format 

message: How come Basic language section is missing? Basic is probably the 2nd most widely used language with IDE's (next to C/C++). Of course Visual Basic is dominating the market, but there are many other Basic versions with IDE available, too. -- PauliKL (talk) 12:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basic? 

message: Shouldn't this column be added to all tables? Existence of a toolchain can be significant when choosing an IDE platform.
--ShalomC (talk) 11:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be added for languages where it is not trivial. For example, with Java, AFAIK the JDK always comes with javac, and IDEs that don't have a custom compiler likely just pass arguments to javac, maintaining transparency. The same could actually be said for C/C++ if not for the fact that a toolchain doesn't come with Windows -- it's largely trivial for *nix. Eclipse CDT for example defaults to using GNU, which ships with just about every Linux distro. A more relevant field for Java IDEs might be a native code compiler. So while it's likely that some of the other languages could use this field, you still have to judge whether it's really relevant to each language. Ham Pastrami (talk) 14:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What is this "toolchain" anyway? I would think that it means which tools (compiler, linker, make, debugger, stripper etc.) are needed to create code for some specific target. So if someone asks about toolchain, I can not see how "Yes" could be the answer. Of course, a single IDE can use multiple different toolchains. For example, when creating PROMable code for embedded system, you need different toolchain than when creating a program for a PC. -- PauliKL (talk) 17:43, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For the context of these tables, "toolchain?" means "does this IDE include sufficient functionality to transform source code into a runnable binary?" or more simply "does it have a complete toolchain?" Ham Pastrami (talk) 15:25, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't that a basic requirement for IDE? If it can not be used to build programs, it is not an IDE. Or does it mean that the compilers etc. has to be included with the IDE package? But often the same IDE can be used with multiple toolchains (different languages, different target environments), so you have to install tools separately anyway. - PauliKL (talk) 09:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, defining what exactly IDE means is a debate for the main article, not this list, and I suspect that there won't be a whole lot of consensus other than the basic precepts that we are working off of here. What the table column means, in any case, is whether or not the IDE has out-of-the-box support for building programs. Whether the IDE can be configured to use different toolchains is not being addressed. Ham Pastrami (talk) 19:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toolchain 

message: How about renaming the "C#" section to '.NET"? Also doesn't Expression Blend fit in this category somewhat? - xpclient Talk 09:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  .NET 

message: Anyone have something like that for Prolog?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.162.249.204 (talk) 13:47, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prolog 

message: What does this column exactly mean (in the context if this article of course) ? We have No or Yes but it's hard to know when we need to update that for new versions of IDEs. We should put a note what we mean by that though. Hervegirod (talk) 13:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  C/C++ toolchain 

message: Should other IDE's like QDevelop (http://biord-software.org/qdevelop/) and Qt Software's Qt Creator (http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator-snapshot/index.html) be added to the list of C/C++ IDE's?   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.208.165 (talk) 13:57, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Other IDE's?

message: Hello, I have difficulties to properly decode the "Toolchain" column for C/C++ IDEs. The Toolchain article itself is of no great utility to know if a particular IDE have a Toolchain or not. Anybody has hints about that ? Hervegirod (talk) 11:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I have my answer in an older discussion thread above. Hervegirod (talk) 11:20, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toolchain 

message: Would be nice to know which IDE's have an SVN/CSV integration.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Miracoli (talk • contribs) 12:12, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: SVN/CSV integration

message: In Python, IDLE is shown as platform independent.  Click on the link and go to the IDLE (Python) page and it is shown as Cross-platform.  I don't know which one is correct.  Perhaps if an IDE is not platform independent it would be better to list the available platforms to avoid mixing up usage of the terms cross platform and platform independent.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by M-streeter97 (talk • contribs) 01:09, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconsistencies

message: As far as I can tell, the recently-added section on IronPython is pointless.  Firstly, IronPython (AFAIK) is an implementation of Python, not a separate language.  Secondly, there were only two links to Wikipedia articles (the rest were external or non-links), neither of which mention IronPython at all.  Therefore I've reverted the section.   Oli Filth(talk|contribs) 18:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I second that. Hervegirod (talk) 18:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

text: If there are specific IronPython IDEs, they should probably be listed under the Comparison of integrated development environments#Python section.  Please note that all items here should have their own Wikipedia article.  Oli Filth(talk|contribs) 18:54, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

text: The article is sorted by languages, not implementations. If we begin to list any implementation under a different paragraph, it will never end. Plus either your links are pointing nowhere, or they are listing unknown apps not backed by any reliable external sources, or they have nothing to do with Python or IronPython, and further more they are not IDEs. Hervegirod (talk) 18:58, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Yes, but only for IDEs, with reliable external sources. For example, it seems to me that SharpDevelop is OK (it's an IDE, and seems to be able to edit Python), but I don't think that Unity3D is for example (it is not an IDE). However, if you can find a source stating that Unity3D or Manifold are able to edit Python / IronPython script, it can be interesting to put that somewhere in the IronPython (or Python) article for example. Same for FxComposer, it is an editor for Shader authoring, but maybe it uses Python as a scripting language. It does not make it eligible for this article, but it may be be eligible  for the Python article. It seems that a lot of tools use Python as a Scripting language, and therefore have some sort of Python editor for that. If you find enough reliable sources about this trend (maybe I'm wrong), it can be interesting to put a new paragraph in the main Python article. Hervegirod (talk) 19:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  IronPython 

message: Does a chapter about actionscript could appear or does the javacript title must be replace by ECMAScript name for speak about JavaScript, ActionScript, JScript. JAvascript is an dialect or an implementation of script by netscape , actionscript an implementation use/create by macromedia ?....  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.142.0.11 (talk) 19:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: what about actionscript 

message: My gut feeling is that most people probably don't care a whole lot about which specific open source license is carried by software, as most have essentially identical terms from the user's/modder's point of view. I propose condensing all the license names into two categories: Copyleft (the GNU-likes) and Permissive (the BSD-likes). This also better represents lesser-known licenses and licenses that don't use a public template. Ham Pastrami (talk) 20:06, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would be for putting in a yes (green) tag for all open licences to make it clear that they are roughly the same. Better comparison that way. -- Aronzak (talk) 10:33, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  done -- Aronzak (talk) 10:52, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Open source license types 

message: I think all tables for their respective language should have their columns in the same order. It makes it easier to compare the availability of IDEs for different languages. It's not necessary that all columns are present, though. A blank column is useless. As a side note, is there a table editor for Wikipedia? Manual column reordering seems quite tedious and error prone. --HelgeStenstrom (talk) 17:30, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Column order 

message: In 2009, the name of the IDE was changed to "REAL Studio" but the name of the language is still "REALBasic". I am uncertain if changing the name of the relevant entry is appropriate or would just create confusion because the older name is more well known and still gets more hits on Google.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by BDun20 (talk • contribs) 02:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  REAL Software changed the name of the REALBasic IDE should the name in the list be changed accordingly? 

message: Many people coming to the page are only interested in comparing current IDEs to decide which to use. However, because all of the comparison tables are multiple screens long and compare every IDE that has existed, they find the page to be mostly useless. We need a way to show only current information for those who want it, in order to increase utility. A method for allowing the viewer to sort information and suppress what they don't need would also be good.
This is a general comment applicable to all comparison articles.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.142.206.28 (talk) 22:41, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Modern IDE Only Option

message: What constitutes a "notable" IDE?  I added a Fortran one (Simply Fortran), but it was pretty quickly removed for lack of notability.  I'm not sure how an actively maintained IDE is not "notable."  I can certainly understand removal of a dedicated page for an IDE based on WP:GNG (I think the linked page is scheduled for deletion today), but listing an IDE seems reasonable. PrintStar (talk) 12:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: see for example WP:Notability TEDickey (talk) 22:25, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Notability guidelines state the following: "On Wikipedia, notability is a test used by editors to decide whether a topic can have its own article."  I am not suggesting that something needs its own article.  On the contrary, I am asking why or why not something is mentioned in an existing article.  Removing a table entry due to something not being "notable" is quite different than creating a whole article around something. PrintStar (talk) 18:00, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The general rule (seems to be accepted by most editors other than those advertising a product) is to create a topic, establish notability, and then add the topic in context to various categories, lists, comparisons.  There are additional reasons for this: the tabular format used in comparison-of topics doesn't work well for citing sources.  TEDickey (talk) 21:08, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for clarifying.  This explanation makes sense.  PrintStar (talk) 22:49, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Notability

message: The table for C/C++ has become a bit unwieldy. It does not fit on screen at lower resolutions. It may be time to split off C/C++ to its own article, e.g. List of IDEs for C/C++. Then the table can be split up into smaller tables (if we did that here, it would be too much clutter). Any thoughts? Ham Pastrami (talk) 03:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split C/C++ 

message: You have iOS listed under "Other Platforms" in the C/C++ section. Are there XCode IDE applications for the iPod/iPhone/iPad? 20.137.18.53 (talk) 16:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: XCode for iOS?

message: FORTRAN, Java and Pascal support has been available in 3.x, but this never has been ported to 4.x. Listing support for these languages and "Release 4.2.3" at the same time is misleading at best.
Also C++ support for Windows and Mac are listed as "Yes?" and "Yes". While it might be technically feasible to use KDevelop as code editor on these platforms, typical IDE features as debugger integration are not working well. I suggest do use "KDevelop 3" in the FORTRAN/Java/Pascal table, and replace the "Yes?" and "Yes" by "Partial".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.65.60.132 (talk) 19:33, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: KDevelop Reality Check

message: Hi.
I know that list needs some additions. Not yet adding, due lack of time.
D
   Eclipse with DDT plugin (http://code.google.com/a/eclipselabs.org/p/ddt), previously known as Descent, Mmrnmhrm and eclipseD
   Visual Studio with VisualD plugin (http://www.dsource.org/projects/visuald)
   D-IDE (http://d-ide.sourceforge.net/)
   Mono-D (http://mono-d.sourceforge.net/), plugin for MonoDevelop.
Erlang
   Emacs with Erlang mode
   Emacs with Distel plugin
   Eclipse with Erlide plugin
   Textmate (?)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.213.255.7 (talk) 15:46, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  D and Erlang 

message: According to the linked topic, it is a text-editor, not topical here TEDickey (talk) 09:51, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geany 

message: Some IDEs only has autocomplete for keywords, some others can even list methods of objects.
Could we add a "*" to the "Yes" to let others distinguish them?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppc123 (talk • contribs) 02:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autocomplete feature is a bit unclear... 

message: Should there be a section on IDE's aimed at Scheme or Racket programming?  Probably the most widely-used one is DrRacket, and that's the only one I've used in recent years, but I'm sure there are others.
Sbloch (talk) 13:55, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scheme/Racket 

message: What do you think about adding a "multithread debug" information as note [n]  in debug column ?  24 Feb 2013  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.251.17.244 (talk) 12:52, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Multithread debug capacity

message: On the current version of the page, some of the sortable tables only sort the first time (as ascending) on the column you choose.  After that, clicking to sort on that column or any other column does not work.  I checked this in two browsers and compared to other Wiki pages.  This issue exists on this page alone (out of the ones I checked).  Having reviewed the code, I cannot immediately see why this is happening with my limited wiki-coding knowledge.  However, I was hoping someone else with greater knowledge might see this and figure out why this is happening.
Example is the C/C++ table.  Might it be due to number of items????
UPDATE: I opened my JavaScript Console in my browser.  On the C/C++ table alone, the following error is produced on the second click to re-sort the table:
Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'format' of undefined	Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'format' of undefined	load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery.tablesorter&skin=vector&…
version=20130817T022511Z&*:3
                                                  	buildCache                                                  	load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery.tablesorter&skin=vector&…
version=20130817T022511Z&*:3
                                                  	$headers.filter.on.mousedown.onselectstart                  	load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery.tablesorter&skin=vector&…
version=20130817T022511Z&*:12
                                                  	jQuery.event.dispatch                                       	load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%2CSpinner%7C…
jquery.l%7Cmw.MwEmbedSupport&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=20130817T022511Z:45
                                                  	elemData.handle.eventHandle                                 	load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%2CSpinner%7C…
jquery.l%7Cmw.MwEmbedSupport&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=20130817T022511Z:38
Kdmckale (talk) 21:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something is wrong with some of the sortable tables