Talk:Lee Myung-bak/Archive 1

message: Mr. Lee is the current president.  Everything involving the investigation and especially referring to Mr. Roh as current president should be shifted.
I started to go through and change some things to the past tense, but i'm a little confused.  Do these parties still assert these things?  If so it is wrong to change them to the past tense.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DaronDierkes (talk • contribs) 08:04, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: tense shift

message: I think the page has come a long way in the last couple of days and should be removed from the NPOV watch list. The tone has been changed to neutral, in my opinion and most unrefferenced or inapropriate remarks were removed. Anyone agree/disagree... reasons?Mikeonatrike (talk) 04:25, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I take this back! Words like 'supposedly' impose guilt... also, words like 'alleged' are not to be used if anyone want's this article to be neutral... If these words continue to be used, maybe this article should be removed or made a stub!Mikeonatrike (talk) 21:02, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Time to declare this page neutral

message: Lee Myung Bak was born in Japan (not in Korea) and he does not have a Japanese name. --DandanxD 12:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: birthplace

message: Why was this erased from the page? The BBK incident is a hot issue in Korea right now and I believe it should be included  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.148.205.37 (talk) 03:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incidents of corruption and illegalities 

message: The section "Mayor of Seoul Metropolitan City" reads like a campaign advertisement rather than an encyclopedic entry.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.245.238.250 (talk) 20:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  CAMPAIGN MATERIAL ON WIKIPEDIA? 

message: This sentence is inflamatory, useless to readers, and unsupported: Please remove. "It is believed that Lee and Kim's sister have had intimate relations." Foreign3r (talk) 09:28, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: intimate relations

message: As mentioned before, much of the article needs citations and NPOV work done, as well as some slight grammar fixes. I've done some preliminary work on a couple of the later sections, but the whole still leaves much to be desired. --FriedBunny (talk) 20:30, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs work 

message: For example, it stated stuff like "environmentally civic jewel"- a completely biased comment- and negative stuff about him isn't really stated, such as the fact that he ran a salon that was revealed to be more of a whorehouse than a salon. There's a lot of negative stuff about him that's currently floating around in Korean websites that are too much for me to list right now, but it seems like none of these were accounted for. 
Not only that, but the BBK incident isn't mentioned, and there's a lot of sentences that wouldn't sound out of place in a North Korean article about Kim Jeong Il, such as "He was the fifth child and grew up with three brothers and three sisters in Pohang, Gyeongsangbuk-do, in extreme poverty, as was the case for many Koreans at that time. Lee spent his childhood helping his mother sell ice cream, wheat flour cakes, cloth, fruit, matches, and candy. One of the most embarrassing moments of his life was when he sold popcorn to high school girls his age. He would be so shy selling that he used to put on a big straw hat so that he would be unrecognizable. His mother encouraged him by telling him to have confidence in what he did." I don't see why this sentence is necessary. Here's another example- "More quietly, Lee also revamped the city's transportation system, adding clean rapid-transit buses. But his lasting accomplishment was in changing the Asian political dynamic, showing that environmentalism can go hand in hand with development." Hello? This has been criticized because it is not working as well as it should be. Also, where's the evidence that he "changed the Asian political dynamic"? I don't think he's had that much effect on other Asian countries, and he's not the first Asian leader to show that "environmentalism can go hand in hand with development" either.
Oh, and another thing, if he's trying to put environmentalism, why is he trying to pushing for the canal, which environmentalists speculate is going to harm the environment? 
All in all, I think that this article is too biased and should be re-written. 
P.S: I don't think he's that good at economic policies either, because under his leadership, Hyundai Engineering and Construction had split into little groups.
Idoversuperego (talk) 09:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I think that this page is biased.  

message: This article's tone is way too unencyclopedic. Examples:
*From "Early life and education": "He would be so shy selling that he used to put on a big straw hat so that he would be unrecognizable. His mother encouraged him by telling him to have confidence in what he did. His mother was an inspiration for his book Mother."
*From "Mayor of Seoul Metropolitan City": "So the "Bulldozer" (a nickname given to Lee) went green — and in dramatic fashion."
*The "Quotes" section
Also, the article lacks citations, footnotes, and references. —Kurykh 20:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this article has those problems which will be soon gone or expanded by many editors from many countries, I guess. One problem is that currently accessible sources are mostly written in Korean. --Appletrees (talk) 21:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|story}} 

message: This page wasn't and still isn't an encyclopedic article. I have dropped as many biases that I could find. NPOV does not exist, or, atleast, didn't. If I deleted something that is essential, by all means add it again.. althought I don't believe I did. "Selling 'something' to a girl in his class" isn't really the kind of information that this article needs.Mikeonatrike (talk) 23:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It isn't proper to make this page look like his 'struggle'... He isn't, or atleast shouldn't be, writting this article...Mikeonatrike (talk) 23:25, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that the sections on his background would be better if they were backed with some references. For example, both allegations of corruption and of good practice as major should be linked to evidence.Miguel Andrade (talk) 09:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. It sounds more like an autobiography of Kim Jeong Il. Uhm, do you think people would mind if I find some negative and positive things that he did and upload them? Cuz this article sounds too outdated as well. Idoversuperego (talk) 14:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead, here is an open encyclopedia for everyone, and you can add relevant contents as long as you keep yourself neutral as possible. This article also needs his career as a businessman while he was in Hyundai corp. That is his cornerstone on which he stands and which makes him "President-elect" now --Appletrees (talk) 14:27, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: I have made some serious changes to this page

message: We need to use in-text citation on this page, like every other wikipedia page. As of now, there are only 4 in-text citations -- and this page is linked from the  Main_Page!
Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 08:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Mikeonatrike (talk) 21:31, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: more Citations!

message: Please do not use "controversial" as a synonym for "unpopular", unless many people oppose him. (And surely you would not use it as code for "I don't like him"; our personal feelings are irrelevant here.)
If there is a controversy, that means there are 2 sides, e.g., for and against. Please research the pro and con of at least one proposal or action of Lee before saying there is a "controversy". --Uncle Ed (talk) 02:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversy

message: This is a high importance article, but I had to delete so many things after finding they did not accord with their news stories. So I just turned it back into a stub.
We need to check each paragraph carefully, and then restore the info one paragraph at a time. --Uncle Ed (talk) 04:32, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't recognize your User Name and reverted your changes instantly. I agree that we have to re-evaluate this site and improve on it. I don't think that the link from the main page should come to a stub. Granted a bad article isn't much better.Mikeonatrike (talk) 04:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I went through here yesterday and deleted almost a third of what was written. It was bad and still needs work. I think the POV is more or less neutral now, although the site needs references. I can't read Korean and am not upto date on Korean national affairs so I'm not the one to add references.Mikeonatrike (talk) 04:47, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I was probably too hasty; see Treebeard. My preference is for short, completely accurate info instead of long, poorly written info. Too bad there's no generally accepted way to have a "showcase" version for the general public and a "working draft" version for us collaborators. (I designed the software for this feature and my friend wrote it, but it never became popular.) --Uncle Ed (talk) 14:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

text: This article is suddenly on the spotlight, but most wordings regarding the allegation on him is generally ongoing matter. --Appletrees (talk) 15:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Start over

message: Did you write this glowing "report" yourself, Mr Lee? Why nothing here about your tennis centre scandal? --  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.109.32.173 (talk) 09:17, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Write something about it... something neutral and sourcedMikeonatrike (talk) 21:29, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tennis Scandal 

message: I have tried to remove biased information but I believe Mr Lee's best friend just keeps coming and re writting this page. I don't know who Lee is, so, I don't have a bias. If he was "poorer" than most give some proof! If not, quit adding it! This isn't a propaganda site for the glory of his struggle, it's supposed to be an encyclopedia... In addition, if he wrote a letter to the president that changed Korean policy, there must be something.. anything... that says this! Find some sources and then put the facts back! Why do we need long articles that have no proof.. Please don't revert these kinds of edits without sourcing the revisions. In addition, when I put  it's because people should know that this information isn't sited and has no proof.. Place a citation there if you want people to believe it.. Otherwise it's unsourced! Mikeonatrike (talk) 15:43, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mike, I'm wondering if the things that were removed were written in broken English. If so, it's possible that English is not their first langauge. I'd recommend leaving a message on their talk page (even if they aren't a registered user) using simple English phrases explaining what you did here. It's possible they won't understand it or won't look here. Just a thought. Davidpdx (talk) 01:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Editing this page

message: The fact that he was convicted more than a dozen times is not mentioned.
Also, his failures as the mayor of Seoul are not mentioned here.
Under him, Seoul's economic growth rate was one of the lowest among the major Korean cities and Seoul was almost bankrupt.
His failure to Cheonggyecheon's restore ecosystem and the original landmarks should be also mentioned as well. The waters in Cheonggyecheon are tap water and the cost to maintain this large fish tank is a burden to Seoul.
Evanescenter (talk) 02:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you could prove any of this, we could write it into the article.. If you have any reliable sources (that can be verified) there wouldn't be a problem writing about his shortcomings... RegardsMikeonatrike (talk) 14:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  I think this page should show his failures as well 

message: This article mentions the election results and voting turnout being low and these stuff. I actually think these sentences need not be up there(notability); everyone can do math, it seems like somebody just didn't like him to be elected 1wonjae (talk) 10:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Election results