Talk:Thor Halvorssen (human rights activist)

message: I think part of this should be clearly stated in the article:
"In particular, Lopez's uncle, Thor Halvorssen, was a known CIA informant who worked with Duane Clarridge, one of the top CIA officials indicted during the Iran-Contra affair.
According to Mision Verdad, Halvorssen was also deeply involved in the CIA's operations in Latin America, providing weapons or cash to mercenaries in Nicaragua and El Salvador as part of a U.S. multinational operation aimed at destroying progressive governments and parties in the region."  https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Who-Is-Leopoldo-Lopez-Co-Author-of-Venezuelas-Failed-Coup-20190501-0001.html  
--Katzmann83 (talk) 08:02, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family leaves out his CIA uncle 

message: I have just restored the criticism and controversy section after it was arbitrarily deleted. Halvorssen is a public figure and therefore has drawn criticism and controversy. Including this on a WP page is a standard practice. WP pages are not puff pieces or resumes. If the person who deleted the section claims it is "biased" then those claims should be discussed here. Deleting whole sections is not the correct approach. You must show why it is "biased" and irrelevant. In fact, the criticism and controversies cited were both high profile, well-sourced and absolutely relevant to providing a full picture of this person.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThorWay (talk • contribs) 06:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello there, I agree that these articles are not fluff. That is why, to make such bold and opinionated claims as are made in your criticism section, the sources must be more reliable and there must be more of them. I am re-reverting the edit for those reasons and because your name clearly implies these edits are not from a neutral POV, including those made on the Oslo Freedom Forum page and the Human Rights Foundation page.Comatmebro ~Come at me~ 06:53, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

text: I have again removed the controversy section. There was an entire paragraph dedicated to a piece published by Max Blumenthal, who had quite a bit of peacocks attached to him. The Electronic Intifada is not a reliable source, as it is an independent, pro-Palestinian online publication. It certainly isn't reliable enough for that claim. The criticism from the AftenPosten article is focused on the Oslo Freedom Forum, and doesn't belong on this page anyway. Not to mention there is only one source and you selected the most inflammatory parts of the article to appear in your additions. ThorWay, you name implies a definite connection with the subject and a Conflict of Interest, as do your edits on the pages of the Human Rights Foundation, and the Oslo Freedom Forum. If you have notable criticisms that have reliable sources, feel free to include them but please refrain from further COI edits.
Whatever the quality of the Blumenthal piece, your edits removed another source, distinct from Blumenthal's report, that noted that a series of scholars had in fact criticized Halvorssen.Mahabhusuku (talk) 19:42, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Actually, the sources didn't criticize Halvorssen himself much, it was directed at the Freedom Forum. I understand he is the founder of the Freedom Forum, but the source isn't really directed at Halvorssen, so it doesn't seem to warrant a new section.Comatmebro ~Come at me~ 20:59, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Both sources explicitly criticize Halvorssen, not simply the OFF.  The Norwegian article criticizes him for downplaying racial conflict in pre-Chavez Venezuela, and the second for a number of indiscretions.  It is entirely appropriate to point out that he is not a figure without controversy.  There are now at least two articles, besides Blumenthal's, published on the matter.   Mahabhusuku (talk) 00:56, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, they do criticize Halvorssen, but why are those complaints in particular notable? I wasn't removing the section in an effort to imply that there are no criticisms of Halvorssen, merely because it would be absurd to imply that the Aftenposten or truth out are the authority on the subject. Theses articles used as sources are focused on the Oslo Freedom Forum, Halvorssen is involved in them, he isn't the primary subject.Comatmebro ~Come at me~ 01:59, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

text: I would just like to point out that some unregistered users made some edits that were contrary to what this ta page had decided on.  Therefore I had some of them reverted to what they had previously been.DaltonCastle (talk) 22:39, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

text: I have removed a paragraph linking him with coups and 'ultra right wing' parties because 1. the paragraph was not NPOV, and 2. Was based mostly on hearsay and conjecture.DaltonCastle (talk) 02:33, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Good edit, WP:BLP wouldn't allow us to have it anyway.--Loomspicker (talk) 17:07, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism and controversy section 

message: I've added the unreferenced template to the article. I've also removed the following phrase: a prominent leader in the Venezuelan fascist party, which is poised to take power in the event of a coup to depose the current regime.  I get zero google hits on a Venezuelan fascist party. If the party has a real name it should be provided. Also speculation on who would take power in the event of a coup qualifies as crystal ballism. --JJay 12:08, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Venezuela fascist party 

message: Hi -- the Romero quote is fine, but we need a source for the quote "his contributions to America through his work are indispendable and he is himself irreplaceable." Someone said it was in a "public letter", but I have been unable to find any reference to this public letter anywhere online, despite the fact that it was supposedly published in 2002 and undoubtably would have been distributed online in some form. Can you provide more context for this? Sdedeo 18:57, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Romero quote

message: I found this:
http://www.gobelle.com/p/articles/mi_m0IUK/is_2002_Spring/ai_86504537/pg_2?pi=gbl
and it underlines a working collaboration between Anthony Romero and Thor Halvorssen. From the article: "Another encouraging sign is the new executive director of the ACLU, Anthony Romero, who called Thor, and they're going to work out some kind of collaboration."
:Great, why not put that in instead of the quote which we unfortunately can't source/verify at this time. Sdedeo 19:10, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, great -- if you can get a scan and upload it to wikipedia, we can include that in the article. Sources == awesome. Yours, Sdedeo 19:21, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Halvorssen and Romero

message: I am not sure of the relevance of this paragraphs, its about the parents, not the subject himself. In any case, I don't see the relation with the section header "... advocacy". Also some POV (Metropolitan Police labeled as "chavista") and possible original research ( were gunners fred? I only read a previous sentence was revoked, perhaps the trial goes on, not sure )
Halvorssen's father served as Venezuela's ambassador for Narcotics Affairs in the administration of Carlos Andrés Pérez.  In 1992, he was also appointed special overseas investigator of an Anti-Money-Laundering Commission by the Venezuelan Senate.  He was a liaison between law enforcement agencies around the world, working on drug and money-laundering cases.  While he was investigating the now defunct Banco Latino, he was arrested and spent 74 days in jail in Caracas "on charges he said were concocted by influential drug traffickers with 'friends' in the Caracas government".  
He was reportedly beaten and received death threats while he was in prison.
International organizations, including Amnesty International, a  Nicaraguan cardinal, and a member of the British Parliament, protested Halvorssen's case. He was found innocent of all charges. After his release, the United Nations-affiliated International Society for Human Rights appointed him director of their Pan-American Committee.Venezuelan Anti-Drug Official Fights His Foes From a Prison Cell: Evidence suggests Thor Halvorssen was framed by Colombian drug lords and their Caracas `friends'; Christian Science Monitor. Boston, Mass.: Dec 20, 1993. Former Venezuelan Drug Official Freed; Christian Science Monitor. Boston, Mass.: Dec 24, 1993.Halvorssen, Thor.  The Americas: The price of vigilance in Venezuela's banking community. Wall Street Journal. New York, N.Y.: Mar 4, 1994. pg. A9 Available online here.
Halvorssen's mother, a British subject, was shot by armed supporters of Hugo Chavez in August of 2004 . She was attending a peaceful protest when she and several other women were victims of an attack. Briton Shot In Venezuela. (19 August 2004).  Retrieved on 14 September 2006. Images of the gunmen were captured by a live television a broadcast.Fotos de la nueva masacre de Altamira, 2004.08.16 Retrieved on 14 September 2006.  They were later apprehended,En prisión los detenidos por los sucesos de la plaza de Altamira. El Dia (24 August 2004). identified as government supporters Olivares, Francisco.Otra vez los pistoleros. El Universal (5 September 2004). Pistoleros de Altamira trabajan para el alcalde José Vicente Rangel Avalos. Notitarde (17 August 2004)Rodriguez, Gustavo Identifican a pistoleros de Altamira. El Universal (18 August 2004) and freed. Revocan condena a ‘pistoleros de Altamira’. Prensa.com (11 April 2006)  The gunmen included former members of the security apparatus of the Chavista Metropolitan Police, the Vice-President's son, and para-police squadrons that support the government. One of the vehicles used in the shooting was traced to an active police official.   The shooting of Halvorssen's mother was the subject of a Wall Street Journal article.Halvorssen, Thor L.  The Price of Dissent in Venezuela.  Wall Street Journal (Eastern edition), Aug 19, 2004. p. A.12 Discussed online here.
JRSP 13:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see the chavista Metropolitan Police is removed (even though that is factual and could have been referenced):  that's fine.  It sounds like the content has grown beyond the section heading, which isn't a reason for deleting the content, rather it is a reason to change the heading.  The relevance of what happened to his parents in Venezuela, and his father's positions with respect to civil rights, to his (the son's) democracy advocacy should be clear:  it provides clear context. It is also important, as Julie points out below, to sort out father from son, as they are easily confused on the internet.  Sandy 00:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The relevance of what happened to his parents in Venezuela, and his father's positions with respect to civil rights, to his (the son's) democracy advocacy should be clear: it provides clear context This sounds as original research, we cannot guess TH Jr motivations. I do not think either that the father's story is necessary distinguish him from son, someone born in 1971 could not possibly have held  an important position in the Venezuelan government in the end of the 80s or beginning of the 90s JRSP 01:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, disagree, discussion of parents and issues relevant to his career clearly belongs in any bio.  This is a biography. Calling anything in it Original Research is a stretch. Sandy 01:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  No it is not a stretch: discussion of parents to this level of detail is not usual in bios. Considering this issues relevant to his career is speculation or OR. JRSP 01:54, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parents 

message: This seems just a personal opinion, not a notable award or recognition:
In 2003, progressive activist John K. Wilson, author of The Myth of Political Correctness named Halvorssen one of the "Top Ten Heroes of Academic Freedom."Wilson, John K.  The State of American Freedom in America 2002-03. Retrieved 26 August 2006.
JRSP 03:15, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awards and recognition 

message: After reading the source, I think TH is not directly related to Campus Watch, he is only making a comment (as executive director of FIRE) about it. The article says TH "came into opposition from the ACLU" and this is not supported by source. JRSP 15:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Campus Watch

message: A new editor has created Thor Halvorssen Hellum (Thor Halvorssen Mendoza's father) because movie rights to his story were purchased and he will be in the press.  She's also still learning the ropes at Wikipedia, and having account problems.  I've made several posts to both of her talk pages to try to help orient her to Wiki, but she doesn't seem to have found article talk pages yet.  
Since the similarities in their names may create ongoing problems and confusion, I suggest we rename this article, and create a disambiguation page, so that hits on Thor Halvorssen will lead to a page that sorts out who's who and links to each.  Can we agree to rename this page to Thor Halvorssen Mendoza (his full name can be sourced to the Human Rights Watch—I found several Google hits), or is there a better way to do this?  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (Separately, I'm concerned about the text sourced to the Gentleman's Quarterly article at Halvorssen Hellum, and will go to the library this weekend to locate that article.)  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with your proposal. Until now, the son has been more notable in the news than the father but if we have a movie, things might change so I think the dab to H.Hellum and H.Mendoza is a good idea. JRSP 16:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I'll get that done.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I added it as a cover note, so that the rest of the article doesn't have to spell out Halvorssen Mendoza on every occurrence.  I used the first Ghit that showed his full name, and also cited the fact that they are father son.  I'll dab this next. If the note works here, we can repeat this technique at Halvorssen Hellum. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New editor, new article 

message: I came across a recent NYT profile on Halvorssen and have added a couple of zingers including personal information about his background. Is there a family tree for Venezuela's first president that I can reference?Sweetness 04:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bolívar had no issue. TH Jr is actually a descendant of Cristobal Mendoza. You can check JRSP 11:56, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: can the Venezuelans please help me?

message: Please see WP:BLPN#Thor Halvorssen Mendoza .  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:33, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, please do. Perhaps somebody can persuade Sandy to explain what she's on about. Rd232 talk 20:46, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  BLP noticeboard 

message: I note you added some material and yet lifted it directly from the Weekly Standard.  It would be a good idea to note than given that you are not supposed to simply cut and paste.  I am going to move things around.  But you should know betterMarturetCR (talk) 12:11, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There was an inline citation to that source. It's better explicitly attributed, which I've now done. Please do not implicitly accuse me of copyright violation ("lifted it directly from"), and do not delete material without explanation. Finally, talk page headers should not address other editors. If you have a personal message for me, use my user talk page. Rd232 talk 21:22, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh enough with the hysteria of my "implicitly accusing" you of anything. For someone who uses profanity and attacks another editor with the sort of language you have displayed elsewhere I think you really should grow a thicker skin. Thank you for doing what you should have done in the first place and attributed a quotation. Finally, I try not to use usertalk pages of other people because I have been yelled at for doing that before.  I regard it as other people's territory. I will continue to address things to you on here.  If there is a specific rule that asks me not to address editors in headers during discussions (both for clarity and to get their attention) please indicate that.  If not, I will nevertheless, because I am a merciful and generous editor/monarch, consider your request.MarturetCR (talk) 05:26, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:TALK#New_topics_and_headings_on_talk_pages. Please stop repeating misleading claims about a heated exchange with another editor. Focus on the content. Rd232 talk 07:16, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Now who is making accusations? If you wish I can excerpt the curse words you used.  And Thank you for bringing up the importance of the content.  I would like to focus on the content but it seems everywhere you keep making ME the issue. And it seems you make ME the issue when I edit something in a manner you dislike.  Enough. Let's BOTH focus on the contentMarturetCR (talk) 09:39, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ? When I have made you the issue? Rd232 talk 10:23, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Guys :)  Knock if off :)  Is this resolved now?  Rd, I noted on Eva Golinger that you/we all do need to be more careful to re-phrase content or directly quote it; I haven't checked the article here, has this been resolved?  If so, y'all can stop the personal commentary now :)  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:08, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's resolved unless Marturet wants to make an issue of it. (Here, by the by, the quote was given qua quote, with footnote, but not attributed explicitly in text. Different than the recent Golinger bit.) Rd232 talk 15:21, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weekly Standard 

message: The section entitled "Criticism of the United Nations Human Rights Council" is essentially a quotation of material taken from an article written by Halvorssen that appears at the Huffington Post. I clicked on the link provided in the reference section and read the article that is cited as the source for the quotation. However, the material in question appears nowhere in that particular article. I reread the article multiple times to make sure I didn't miss anything. Whatever the reason, the quotation used does not match up with the reference provided. This needs to be fixed.74.138.45.132 (talk) 03:32, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong source cited for quote 

message: In the lawsuit introduced by Halvorssen against Derwick, it is stated that both Forbes and Huffington Post disallowed further articles by Halvorssen in their publications.Naruto2839 (talk) 20:32, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updating relationship with Huffington Post and Forbes magazine 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article doesn't say where the subject lives, unless I missed it. 173.228.123.101 (talk) 21:47, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Country of residence 

message: Hello, an article in an encyclopedia has best to focus on the facts and then give opinions later (and multiple opinions). This article is unfortunately the opposite of it, it starts right with 2 opinions about the person and on top these seem to be highly selective (seem to be the most positive ones you could find). And it continues in the introduction even with a third opinion (again the most positive there is to be found) about an event. It seems every positive comment of an article you can find on the net has made it as a quote into the biography (see for example the part "Oslo Freedom Forum" that gives again nrly no information on the subject beside positive opinions and mentions names), including the line of a tabloid. Selective opinion quotes instead of informations are advertising and not the aim of an encyclopedia. Relevance of alot here is in question beside neutrality.
Furthermore too many of the informations of this article are based on the homepage of his organisation or articles of Halvorssen while outside sources were just put as refs without using them. Actually it seems reliable outside sources beside for the selected positive quotes have nrly no meaning at all in the article. A small example: "along with Nobel Peace Prize Laureates Shirin Ebadi, Jody Williams, Mairead Maguire, Betty Williams and Arch. Desmond Tutu.", if you look into the given Telegraph source, i see there mention of the Nobel Laureates but no mention of Halvorssen. That is another form PR but also not neutral, putting the own name in a line together with some Nobel Laureates, without that this line is of relevance. Sorry, but the problem is overall so huge in the article that I can hardly think how it can be repaired and will put a template. --Larsenat (talk) 16:11, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Greetings there! I am working to address your concerns and have edited the lead to trim down some of the puffery. What are your thoughts? There is far less attribution now and I think its an adequate level of coverage. I will continue further down on the page, but I hope you can approve this. DaltonCastle (talk) 22:23, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

text: As far as your last point, it does appear that the sources are now dead. I think with some research we can find new ones, but for now we can trim it. DaltonCastle (talk) 00:15, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality and relevance 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I’m not sure his recent testimony in front of Congress is sufficiently noteworthy to be in the introductory section. I haven’t removed it but I’m curious what others think.
I did remove the reference to the Trump dossier, since it’s completely irrelevant to the subject of the article.
Thanlis (talk) 15:33, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, just stumbling across this. It's definitely right to keep out the Trump bit, but the testimony as a whole seems pretty notable. Enough for the lead? That's a different question. But it's a very notable occurrence for someone who is notable for their human rights activism and is backed by reliable sourcing. Maybe it should go under the Activism section at the top, not under any subsection. For now seems reasonable to include. Uhtregorn (talk) 02:54, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  FusionGPS 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Speedy closed as disruptive from POV-pushing IP anonymous editor.  Requested moves are not for "soapbox about how this person is an evil terrorist."  If an editor in good standing wishes to re-file, they are free to.  SnowFire (talk) 08:02, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thor Halvorssen (human rights activist) →  – It is in the public interest to make sure he uses his real name. Thor Halvorssen Mendoza is the cousin of Leopoldo Lopez Mendoza which he intend to cover up by calling himself a "human rights activists". Various investigative journalists from Norway, and the United States specifically complaining that Thor Halvorssen Mendoza tries to hide his connections to his brother Lorenzo Mendoza the richest man of Venezuela who also heading Venezuela's biggest company, and to his cousin Leopoldo Lopez Mendoza who is a convicted terrorist currently running from Venezuelan justice. In the other hand, disclosing that he is a "Mendoza" also helping those who investigating his fake NGO the so called Human Rights Foundation which totally removed all mention of Venezuela recently from the list of countries where they advocate for regime change. His cousin tried to overthrow the Venezuelan government with the help of the U.S. government and Thor Halvorssen Mendoza deeply involved in this. See: 2019 Venezuelan uprising attempt Should be noted that Thor Halvorssen Mendoza known for paying Wikipedia editors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Jhanisse_V._Daza.
In the case of his cousin Leopoldo Lopez Mendoza the Inter-American Court of Human Rights calling Lopez as Lopez Mendoza, and Leopoldo Lopez Mendoza always including in his name Mendoza. Technically, this article either should be called as Thor Mendoza or Thor Halvorssen Mendoza.
See reference: https://www.corteidh.or.cr/docs/casos/articulos/seriec_233_esp1.pdf
170.51.109.52 (talk) 03:49, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 28 October 2021 

message: Hi, if somebody has the Economist sub, it would be nice to look into the source "A crowded field". In the article was stated that the Economist wrote it is the "Davos of Human Rights." And elsewhere in the article it was stated the Economist wrote (2010) it's on the way to become the equivalent of the Davos economic forum. I assume the ladder is right (this article had a lot of inaccuracy-problems around puffery though), but I can't confirm which or if any of the two options is true :). Casra (talk) 14:22, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economist quote - maybe somebody can look it up 

message: As can be seen above in multiple sections (#Criticism and controversy section, #Neutrality and relevance, #Awards and recognition), there is a clearly recognized neutrality issue with this article. At current, I see it mainly in the awards and recognition section what with it being full of praise yet the article not acknowledging any of the controversial aspects of Halvorssen's work as, again, mentioned in multiple sections. This issue has been addressed so many times over the years and yet still persists in the article, though I can see that significant work has been done to fix this, such as here. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 14:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't see anything wrong with the Awards & recognition section listing his awards & recognition. Those discussions are ten years old and a lot of that has been pared down. I think keeping that quote out of the lead is a good call. Uhtregorn (talk) 05:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: To clarify (in case I wasn't clear), what I'm saying is that that section is full of praise, but there's no balance in the article. With a controversial subject matter such as what this man's work involves, it's especially important to reflect a variety of perspectives in order to maintain that balance, or else the heaps of praise are given massive undue weight. Part of my acknowledging the number of past discussions on this is to emphasize how clearly this is an ongoing issue. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 05:19, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: This page writes like a press release. It gasses him up as a grand human rights activist but what rights exactly does he support? Access to abortion? Public housing to end homelessness? Does he support the right to universal healthcare? All I see is a media personality whose personal views align perfectly with American foreign policy, being railroaded into every major media outlet across the United States. The History Wizard of Cambridge (talk) 15:00, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality