Talk:Irish people

message: It appears there has been quite the edit war regarding image formatting here, with several edit warriors blocked for a short while. I have full-protected this page for a few days so that after those blocks expire the participants can come here and discuss it like adults instead of edit warring. I hope it is now clear to all involved that edit warring is absolutely not tolerated and if it recurs after the protection expires blocks will be significantly harsher. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:21, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, bad to have edit wars. But now its frozen as kind of a mess, and no one can help fix it apparently. :( Johundhar (talk) 14:42, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You're replying to an over 8 year old comment. If you have some discussion you wish to have, its best to start a new section at the bottom of the page. Canterbury Tail talk 16:19, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: After all these years, eh   ;)   SN54129 16:24, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: See, clearly I did not keep this on my watchlist, because I am kind of obsessive about archiving stale discussions exactly so this sort of thing doesn't go on. (worth noting that the page is only semi-protected, so any autoconfirmed user can edit it as of right now)  Beeblebrox (talk) 18:50, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

text: I've now archived the older stale discussions and added one-click archiving to this page. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:59, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Johundhar (talk) 21:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: @Denisarona and @Canterbury Tail:
We seem to have two separate groups of people to describe in this article.  They are:
# People of European descent, with white skin and dark hair (rather than blonde or red hair), who have traditionally lived in Ireland for at least many centuries, and possibly thousands of years.
# People descended from the first group plus African people during the 18th and 19th century, who have never traditionally lived in Ireland.
This article about the Irish people has a section called ==Origins and antecedents==.  It seems to me that it's not really possible for the older group to have any of its origins and antecedents in the newer group that descended from the older group.  The second group logically cannot be not either the origin or an antecedent of the first group.  
Consequently, I don't think that the second group should be listed in the section called ==Origins and antecedents==.  I've no objection to it being in the article, but it should not be in the section called ==Origins and antecedents==.  Do you agree? WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:48, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Since nobody has objected, I have moved the descendants of the 18th- and 19th-century African slaves and Irish immigrants out of the ==Origins and antecedents== section and into the section about ==Irish diaspora==.  People descended from the (pre-existing) Irish people and living in other countries are part of the diaspora.  They are not part of the origin of the Irish people. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:16, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually looking at it it needs to be removed. It's sourced to Rootsweb, which is part of Ancestry.com which is a completely unreliable source per WP:RS/P. And the RTE source seems to fail verification as it doesn't appear to be anything more than advertising blurb for an old program. Canterbury Tail talk 20:20, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Irish vs Black people who are Irish 

message: Hi wiki team - I'm concerned that the introduction, and the list of notable/famous writers, doesn’t reflect 1,500 years of writing and poetry in Irish (both pre- and post-Norman and/or Elizabethan conquest). In the grand scheme of things, a literary culture in English in Ireland has only existed for a few hundred years - which is actually a relatively small period of time, rich as its fruits have been! I wonder what's the best way to address this in the introduction of this particular entry.
Many thanks for your thoughts! IRideBikes25 (talk) 18:30, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. :Category:Irish-language writers includes 360 individual writers, and has subcategories of its own. The article on Early Irish literature, indicates that the earliest surviving Irish inscriptions date to the 4th century. How do we cover 17 centuries in a single article? Dimadick (talk) 05:57, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this article should just give a short introduction about with a pointer to a much more in depth article elsewhere. The Banner talk 08:48, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish-language writers & literature in introduction 

message: Hi there. In answer to your question there are a number of issues with that reference. Firstly, as per WP:CITEHOW, you can't cite a whole document to make a specific claim; you have to say where in that particular document supports such a claim. Secondly, I happen to have found Ann C. Humphrey's public linkedin profile, and according to that this particular piece is an undergraduate's dissertation which goes against the guidance as given in WP:SCHOLARSHIP. To quote the guidance directly: "Completed dissertations or theses written as part of the requirements for a doctorate, and which are publicly available (most via interlibrary loan or from Proquest), can be used but care should be exercised, as they are often, in part, primary sources...Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence." So if it was a doctorate's thesis we could possibly use it, however it fails the guidance on the basis that it's an undergraduate's piece. Alssa1 (talk) 13:26, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see why that resource is unreliable, thanks for clarifying.. However a quick google of "irish heritage in iceland" reveals a number of reliable sources confirm the assertion that Icelanders have a significant proportion of Irish DNA, e.g. this from 2000 and this from 2018. The latter cites academic studies. My suggestion, for now, is to remove the suspect source and replace with a citation-needed tag, or for you to further research the topic and add some reliable sources instead.  10mmsocket (talk) 13:37, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I've added 'citation needed' per your recommendation for the mo. Alssa1 (talk) 13:46, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice one. Thanks.  10mmsocket (talk) 13:51, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ann C. Humphrey's piece 

message: I will correct a spelling mistake. 85.107.199.157 (talk) 20:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:42, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2022 

message: This Wikipedia entry, almost in its entirety, focuses solely on male leaders, male heritage, and the patriarchal domination that has plagued Ireland since Christianity was brought to the island. Shame on those of you who can't open your minds to anything except the most narrow male-centric perspective on the history of a glorious and beautiful people, half of whom were not and are not male. This entry is the quintessential stereotype of the old American-Irish grandfather who desperately clings to past memories of men running the world, rejecting any possible progress toward telling the true, complete and vibrant history of all the Irish people. DrKBrennan (talk) 18:16, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi DrKBrennan. You might be interested in one of the projects at WP:WikiProject Women which aims to counter this known bias on Wikipedia. The unfortunate fact is that history has largely been male-centric, as you say. Wikipedia is based entirely on what has been reported in secondary sources so if they don't exist, then it won't be on Wikipedia. Everyone here is a volunteer so if you have knowledge of the subject don't get angry, get contributing. Princess Persnickety (talk) 19:18, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

text: So either fix it or tell us how to fix it instead of going on a rant. What is missing? What significant people need to be added? The article talk pages are for discussions on how to improve things, not just complain like on a forum. If you think it can be improved then please by all means make suggestions. Canterbury Tail talk 20:11, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unfortunately narrow and limited view of Ireland 

message: 80.6.48.34 (talk) 17:31, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No question or request, so no action needed. The Banner talk 17:43, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 13 October 2022 

message: Add Culture of Ireland template
 American cupcake lover USA (talk) 09:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Why? This article is about the ethnic group. So that template is - in my eyes - irrelevant. The Banner talk 09:30, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it also already has a sidebar with of :Template:Irish people. --Mvqr (talk) 12:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

text: I find it troubling that there are prominent editors on this article who don't seem to have any idea what an ethnic group is. The sociological definition is "A category of people who share a cultural background such as language, location, and religion.". Ancestry may be part of it (and often is), but it's not the only part and may not disqualify someone from having an ethnicity. There are Hispanics in the US, for example, who may be 100% European genealogically but are culturally Hispanic and speak the language, making them distinct from other whites. There is nothing irrelevant about emphasizing culture when we are speaking of ethnicity -it's arguably the most important aspect. Jonathan f1 (talk) 15:15, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 October 2022 

message: The reason why I said that putting both Scots and Ulster Scots as related ethnic groups in the infobox is redundant is because while Ulster Scots are a distinct subgroup of Scottish people, they are still Scots, who are already listed. ~Cherri of Arctic Circle System (talk) 05:20, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scots and Ulster Scots 

message: Please would an interested editor assess the extensive material added at User:Grimhelm/Irish people, incorporate what is useful, then blank that page as WP:COPYARTICLE, and leave a note here when done? – Fayenatic London 15:17, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abandoned user draft 

message: Reverted to original state where ancestry, history, and culture are all stated as qualities of Irish people. 
That's not denying that people with history, culture and not ancestry aren't Irish. That's just saying that ancestry is a part of it even when culture isn't.
More than nearly any people, the Irish are in fact surprisingly genetically similar. 2/3 have the exact same Y DNA. This is an interesting scientific fact. Irish born outside Ireland can still be considered Irish. DenverCoder19 (talk) 05:16, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted your edit. Since you made it originally, and were reverted, you are the one who needs to get consensus for inclusion in the article. Per Wp:BRD you do not re-add it in and then discuss, you discuss once reverted. Will need consensus now for you to add it back in. Note this is strictly procedural. Canterbury Tail talk 15:00, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

text: My first question to you and  is: what is wrong with "common ancestry"? Why is it removed? The Banner talk 18:29, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: As there is no explanation of what is wrong with "common ancestry", I have restored that. The Banner talk 10:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I see nothing wrong with the 'common ancestry' line either. Alssa1 (talk) 11:42, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Just adding my 2c that "common ancestry" is appropriate because it's in a wide variety of sources. DenverCoder19 (talk) 00:57, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common ancestry 

message: It is of course possible to have articles or sections about Irish people, or about Irish Americans, but an infobox does not have any room for fine points. It is currently saying that there are 36 million "Irish" people living in America and that is clearly using a very broad definition based on ancestry and/or sentiment. These would mainly be people who have never been in Ireland, and who are "Irish" in a secondary "hyphenated" way. Those numbers are clearly misleading as currently presented because, for one thing, it means the USA is the place where most Irish people live! Andrew Lancaster (talk) 21:47, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish people numbers in the infobox