Talk:Brazilian hip hop

message: Here are some more artists, if anyone cares to put them in the correct cities!  I added them to the German website, because the artists are not sorted out by city there, so they could all just be lumped into one category.  I unfortunatley do not have the time to do that.  But for what it's worth, here are the additional artists, perhaps I repeated one
*Gabriel, O Pensador
*Racionais MC's
*Somos Nós a Justiça
*509-E
*Andre Abujamra
*Elza Soares
*Possemente Zulu
*Potencial 3
*Black Gero
*Personagens
*Stereo Maracanã
*Veiga & Salazar
*MC Partideiro
*Mamelo Sound System
*XIS
*Instituto & Sabotage
*Thaíde & DJ Hum
--LanguageSLO 07:02, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The article is available to read online and can be found in the ref section.
The article itself is quite extensive dealing with many factors which I've had to leave out. Some political, economic and afrocentric themes have been omitted. The article starts with a brief overview of academic concepts and terms. I'm not fully conversant with these concepts and though within the understanding of most readers I felt as though their incorporation into the article would be more of a hindrance than a help (and if I'm honest would be a sign of my lack of understanding of what they encapsulate). I've done my best with the rewrite and may revisit the original document to see if I can further expand the ideas presented but if anyone who is pursuing this field wishes to rewrite or add to this section then please do.
One of the most important things I left out was the CEU funding (which is currently being reduced by the San Paulo municipality) and the House of Hip Hop which is a "grass roots" organization (more community based and and less reliant on state approval for its agenda) that has the same pedagogical aims as the CEU.
Sluffs (talk) 16:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hip Hop as Pedagogy - post rewrite thoughts 

message: I added a ref to the article for the Gabriel o Pensador song about Collor. There's two identical versions of the article at the site. I think the one I used is a general archive page and gave no publication date. A quick search of their site produced the original article with publication date. I'm providing the second link here just in case a 404 occurs later when a reader clicks the link I provided in the ref section. I was going to replace the link with this one but I felt as though the formatting of the "archive" page was a lot easier to read. Since the magazine deserves to be credited this link here should suffice for the moment for anyone who wants to investigate other Brazilian topics in what seems to be a very informative and well-written magazine. Also the page linked here has a search box, back issues, current articles, etc.
Alternative Address for Gabriel o Pensador Ref - Brazzil Magazine
Sluffs (talk) 17:53, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternative address for ref 

message: There is a difference between the genres of Hip Hop and Funk Carioca. I'm from the UK so Funk Carioca is new to me but it doesn't sound like Hip Hop to me - musically that is. Funk Carioca does have rap vocals and I think in Brazil the genres influence and inform each other. One of the problems is the William and Duda track "Rap Do Borel" released in the early 1990s but at the moment in a more "political" section and chronologically is mentioned after the Sabotage 2002 release - this needs to be addressed. I won't change anything at the moment but Funk Carioca either needs to be integrated into hip hop history section (with the differences between the genres noted) or removed to new section (maybe even taken out of the article completely and placed in the article on Funk Carioca with just a few sentences to do with the genre in this article with the obligatory blue link).
Not a big issue but the article has a lot of information on Funk. 
Sluffs (talk) 21:43, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The inclusion of Funk Carioca tracks  

message: Just though I'd mention that as I merge the details from the Brasilia section into the History section that the details in both sections may seem fragmented. To remove any concerns that other editors may have about what I'm doing - when I've finished I'll create sub-headings (maybe "decades" or something else - not too sure yet) so that the information has a better layout. 
The sentences on the releases may be need to rewritten and some other points added. Chronology is so important to history of any sort (including music genres) and I feel that this is the way forward for this article. 
Sluffs (talk) 15:57, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging the Brasilia section into the History section 

message: There's a documentary at YouTube called BREAK DANCE BRASIL METRÔ SÃO BENTO detailing the history of Brazilian break dancing. I don't speak Portuguese but the 1984 US film Beat Street is featured in the documentary, so I imagine that was a major influence. It also interviews many of the pioneers (dancers) from the early 1980s - also has many photos from that period showing the crowds (quite large in some shots) who attended these informal gatherings. Would be nice if someone could do an English transcription of the documentary or English subtitles and upload it again to YouTube.
At the moment the article is more music orientated. An idea might be to do the sub-headings as decades with the further sub-headings: music, break dancing, graffiti, etc for each decade. I'll add the names mentioned in the documentary to this Talk Page (that should at least cover the period 1980 to 1990 though only for Sao Bento).
Dancers and B-Boys
* Nelson Triunfo
* Eduardo So
* Joao Break
* Allan Beat
* Osgemeos
* Marcelinho
 
Sluffs (talk) 17:51, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes and details for article 

message: I'm not too sure if Chico Science should be so prominent in the History section. They are classed by everyone (including their own self-classification) as a Mangue Beat band. I must admit that I don't know much about the genre. I went to the tube to check out some videos of the genre and it sounded more like funk mixed with rock - even slightly punky especially the group Nação zumbi (another Mangue Beat band). There are hip hop elements but they are not prominent in the music (please note I'm talking about the music not the lyrics or rapping).
In the UK we had a genre called Trip Hop but no one in the UK would describe it as "authentic hip hop". As expected Brazilian hip hop seems to have started as predominantly an African-Brazilian genre and entered the mainstream at which point a lot of Brazilian rock and alternative bands absorbed some of the elements. 
I would like to remove the groups associated with Mangue Beat from the History section. I'll leave the details as they are for the moment but eventually I intend to create a separate heading "Other Genres in Brazil influenced by Hip Hop" (or a similar title). 
Sluffs (talk) 15:04, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mangue Beat and the group Chico Science 

message: The Black Junior's released their self-titled debut album in 1984. Lima Santos credits this album as the first Brazilian rap album. I've listed Hip Hop Cultura De Rua as the first hip hop album (not original research by me just a detail from one of the refs I've used). 
The Black Junior's album is up on YouTube. I had a listen and it is rap but has more in common with "Rappers Delight" - funk and disco backing with a rap over the top. "Rappers Delight" was the first worldwide rap hit but no one would called it the first hip hop hit. The reason the distinction has to be made using the backing track is because spoken speech in music is not a new thing - The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron had been "rapping" a message in their music a full decade or more earlier.
Check out "When The Revolution Comes" by The Last Poets released in 1970.
Check out "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" by Gil Scott Heron released in 1971.
So listen to the above tracks and then the Black Junior's album - compare those tracks to the tracks on the album Hip Hop Cultura De Rua and I think you may agree that this was the first "hip hop" album is Brazil as stated in the article.
I'm not an expert so who knows maybe there are other albums to consider but for the moment I'm happy to give the credit to Hip Hop Cultura De Rua.
Sluffs (talk) 13:25, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Junior's album of 1984 - 1st hip hop album? 

message: Some of you may have noticed that I've used semi-colons extensively. This was the result of adding extra details for the many artists and releases that I came across in my research. Using semi-colons extensively is not recommended or stylish. When the article is nearing completion I'll try to remove some of the semi-colons and maybe rewrite some of the details.
01:14, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  My overuse of the semi-colon 

message: Can someone please upload an English subtitled version of the episode to YouTube please. The episode "Sabado" has an English subtitle upload but is more to do with Funk. The episode Hip Sampa Hop has three well-known Brazilian hip hop artists in it but I can't find an English subtitled version. Of course this is nothing to do with Wikipedia but it would be helpful for readers of this article who only speak English. 
cheers
Sluffs (talk) 20:00, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  City of Men - Episode: Hip Sampa Hop  

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