Talk:Afro-Brazilians

message: User User:B-Machine has removed a few lines from the article, arguing that they are "personal opinions".
Let's look at those "personal opinions", one by one:
* The adjective unusual, used to qualify "Afro-Brazilian" as a term to refer to racially categorise Brazilians, together with this sentence: Brazilians, including Black Brazilians, rarely use the American-style phrase "African Brazilian" to categorise themselves, and never in informal discourse.
However, the text of the article quite well shows that unusual is a perfectly apt adjective to describe "Afro-Brazilian": The IBGE's July 1998 PME shows that, of Black Brazilians, only about 10% considers themselves of "African origin"; most of them identifying as having a "Brazilian origin"; a sentence that (on contrary of much of the material here) has a source, and, again contrary to what is usual in hyphenated-Brazilian articles, a source that actually supports the article's text. In fact, the article shows, in another section, that unusual may well be an understatement: In the July 1998 PME, the categories "Afro-Brasileiro" (Afro-Brazilian) and "Africano Brasileiro" (African Brazilian) weren't used even once; the category "Africano" (African) was used by 0.004% of the respondants. In the 1976 PNAD, none of these were used even once. Both these statements, again, are, also unusually for the standards of hyphenated-Brazilian articles, sourced, with sources that actually support them.
Unbeliavably, the source that would support the opening statement of the article as it reads now, after B-Machine's edit, Afro-Brazilian is a term to racially categorize Brazilian citizens who self-reported to be of black or brown (Pardo) skin colors to the official IBGE census (http://www.seade.gov.br/produtos/idr/download/populacao.pdf MAIOR POPULAÇÃO NEGRA DO PAÍS) simply does not use the term "Afro-Brazilian", or any other one that can be assumed to mean the same, even once; it systematically calls those people "negros", starting in its title. So, what seems a rather "personal" opinion, or at least an opinion that is not supported by the sources, is the statement that now purports to introduce the subject.
* The parenthesis in Finally, the Black movement system groups "pardos" and "pretos" in a single category, "negro" (and not Afro-Brazilian).
Unhappily, this is the truth: the Brazilian black movement groups "pardos" and "pretos" in a single category, "negro", and not into a "Afro-Brazilian" category. And that is what the given source, "Race in Another America: the significance of skin color in Brazil", by Edward Telles, says. For instance, in page 22: Although the Black movement classification recommends that the term "negro" includes blacks and browns, I prefer to use "nonwhite"... And in the same page: I could also have used the term Afro-Brazilian or Afro-descendant (...) Although those are not commonly used in the discourse of ordinary Brazilians, they are increasingly used by college-eduacated persons and activists in the Black movement. In the whole book, the term, besides the mentioned explanations, is used a few times, all of them, with three exceptions (a reference to "Afro-Brazilian leaders", a reference to "Afro-Brazilian communities" and a reference to Abdias do Nascimento as a legislator who defended the "Afro-Brazilian population") in a different context ("Afro-Brazilian culture", "Afro-Brazilian religion", "Afro-Brazilian music", etc.) So, again, if this is a "personal opinion", then it is a "personal opinion" solidly supported by sources.
* This sentence: However, this binary division of Brazilians between "brancos" and "negros" is nevertheless seen as influenced by American one-drop rule, and attracts much criticism.
This however refers to Demétrio Magnoli's "Uma Gota de Sangue", which is immediately discussed. In fact, the idea that the binary division between "brancos" and "negros" is influenced by American one-drop rule is one of the core reasons of Magnoli's criticism. Of course, Magnoli used to be quoted here as a supporter of such division, and the arguments he used to dismiss (in fact, to ridicule) it were reported as the actual reasons why the Black movement supports it; and the erased sentence intended exactly to underline this fact: that Magnoli is a critic, not a supporter, of this idea. Ninguém (talk) 16:42, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there are no arguments against, I am restoring the suppressed information. Ninguém (talk) 16:35, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is and what is not a personal opinion. 

message: Shut up, Ninguém. A person like you, who already claimed that Clara Nunes was a "White woman" knows nothing about the subject and should keep away from any discussion.  You're just a desperate white-washer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.150.25.244 (talk) 19:48, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In Wikipedia people describe Vanessa da Mata as mulata and Alice Braga as cabocla, while to me they both look as white in facial traits and whiter in skin tone than many of my relatives that are both of very recent European descent. Alice Braga is whiter in phenotype than my mother, that is 25% Central European, and >50% Portuguese in up to 4 generations, including our mtDNA! Each person has his or her personal credentials and that is why race in Brazil should always be self-assigned rather than other-assigned, it is too damn complex and we can't take autosomal and mitocondrial DNA tests on everybody; even if we did, it was no guarantee as human race, especially when we deal with large-scale human genetic admixture, is something socially build rather than a scientifical concept. Lguipontes (talk) 13:33, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrelevant attempt to start an irrelevant discussion 

message: Trying to import Portuguese terminology into English wikpedia seems silly. Afro-Brazilian and black are English terms, used by English speakers according to the norms of the English language. Given that the majority of English speakers live in the US, where common usage of the term 'Afro-' and 'black' conform to the one drop rule of hypo descent, suggest that it is reasonable to use general English usage in this case. Therefore, the attempt to rule out discussion of people of multi-racial ancestry seems illogical.Ackees (talk) 15:20, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Afro-Brazilian and black Brazilian are English terms - so EN editors can use EN usage 

message: Have tried to make some sections less confusing in English, while keeping to a description of Brazil in Brazil's own terms. Parkwells (talk) 13:51, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Editing for style in English

message: Given that there has been no actual discussion as to the nomenclature used in this WP:TITLE, and that WP:COMMONNAME does not appear to have been established, could editors please use this talk page to present arguments for a change in the use of 'Afro-Brazilian' rather than some sort of misguided attempt to create their own WP:OR naming convention?
Just in the most recent editing history, it's evident that IPs are going through and making changes to 'Black-Brazilians', etc. dependent on what they believe to be politically correct. Editors do not determine what the COMMONNAME is. If, however, there is no English language common name for this ethnic group, it should be discussed here and a WP:CONSENSUS title needs to be established. Please stop just going through and changing the default consensus nomenclature without bothering to presenting any reliable sources or policy and guideline based arguments for your changes.
Going through Google Scholar, Afro-Brazilian yields Afro Brazilian is the most commonly used term in English. Ngram reveals the same here. If there are other arguments editors feel need to be addressed, feel free to express them here, on the article's talk page where they belong.
Much of the article is already dedicated to differentiating between the use of the term in English as opposed to the Portuguese Brazilian terminology. If anyone believes they can see a better way around presenting the content of this article, I'm sure there are plenty of other editors equally keen to find solutions rather than further complicate the article. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 02:30, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems with the title? 

message: African Brazilians are pardo and black Brazilians. They are the same category. Brazil have  108 million African Brazilians. Nunally (talk) 18:38, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide a source for the numbers you are trying to change. The census document indicates otherwise. ... discospinster talk 18:50, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  African Brazilians wrong  number