Talk:Academic dress

message: Created stub Andrew Yong 08:28, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: stub

message: Someone please add some pictures. I would add the complicated code of colors for different degrees but I don't remember most of it. Rmhermen 17:11, Oct 10, 2003 (UTC)
American colors: http://www.ermoore.com/regalia/officialcolor.html
E.R. Moore claims to be the sole depository for Intercollegiate Code regulations - is this really true?
no it is not true
--Then could you please provide appropriate rebuttal for this claim (now found at http://www.ermoore.com/products/academic/intercollegiate.do.htm)?  They have interesting documents on that page, by the way, such as http://www.ermoore.com/pdf/capandgowns.pdf Solarbuddy (talk)
::In the United States the American Council on Education (ACE) is the authority on academic costume.  Their website includes the text of their guidance on academic regalis and ceremony  here.  Nowhere is E.R. Moore referred to or designated as "the sole depository for Intercollegiate Code regulations", whatever that might mean.  I suspect what that phrase is supposed to relate to is the discipline colors, which E.R. Moore is similarly not the sole repository.
::However, E.R. Moore is noted on the ACE webisite with the statement "Additional information about discipline colors is available from E.R. Moore Co." and a link.  That link includes information that conflicts with or, without explanation, expands upon the ACE code.  I suspect that it was a convenience for ACE to link to E.R. Moore that was exploited by the latter for profit motives.  The bottom line is: ACE is the authority in the US for academic costume guidelines, and E.R. Moore has no "official" standing according to them, though there is some implicit recognition of the latter on the website, but NOT in the code itself. Shoreranger (talk) 16:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Colors

message: Info needs to be added about wearing of tassels.  In all the graduation ceremonies I've been in, we were told to wear the tassel on one side before we got our diplomas, then move it over to the other either after we had individually received them, or as a group.  ---emb021
:That tradition depends on the institution.  Generally, if you are receiving a bachelor's degree from a place where hoods are not worn with bachelor's degrees, then you do the tassel thing.  However, in most places if you are receiving a graduate degree, then you always wear the tassel on the left, even if the degree hasn't been formally conferred yet.  Of course, there are variations, but this is the general norm. Pmadrid 16:59, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, this thing about the tassel being moved over to the other side is a relatively recent (early-mid 20th century) US tradition and doesn't generally happen elsewhere from what I understand.  Indeed, the tassels on US mortarboards different to those in UK universities - with the former, the tassel is situated at the end of a single cord which is attached to the button at the centre of the square, while with the latter, the tassel itself emanates from the central button, which makes the tassel-switching thing rather more difficult to do. - Nicholas Jackson 08:50, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tassels

message: So where is the edit history? Tom Harrison Talk 15:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see User:Andrew Yong has already done that. Thanks, Tom Harrison Talk 16:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit history? 

message: I just added a couple of notes to clarify the American use of colors in hoods; they are really double.  The velvet facing of all U.S. hoods shows the degree earned - not the "discipline" as stated above the color table.  Thus, a Ph.D. in any subject from astronomy to English to zoology gets a blue facing, while a doctorate in public health (D.P.H.) gets salmon pink and a doctorate in medicine (M.D.) green, theology (S.T.D.) red and so forth.  Most bachelors' degrees in the U.S. are granted by liberal arts schools so their facings are white.  The silk lining, which is visible from the back, is in the school colors (for any degree) as well as the option of the doctoral gown being in the school colors.  So if you know the color codes, you can look at an academic procession and figure out where everybody in it went to school and what degree they earned.  
(I'm associate Faculty Marshal, in charge of regalia - we do call it that - at a small American liberal arts college.)
216.57.241.194 19:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Color significance 

message: Unless anyone can argue that the current text is true for Catholic clergy in an academic context I propose to remove it. It's certainly not true as written for all academic contexts; I'd settle for a change that makes it clear in what academic context it is true.
Mhardcastle 22:03, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Catholic clergy

message: While I'm sure there are schools where hoods are worn for bachelors degrees, I've been to a number of graduation ceremonies for at least 8 different universities, and in all cases those receiving bachelors degrees wore no hoods.  The way I read the article, it seems to be saying that most schools in the US include hoods in the regalia for a bachelors degree.  Is there any kind of source to turn to to determine which is the norm in the US? - 157.127.124.15 16 May 2007
:From what I've seen discussed it seems that the universities have prescribed hoods but don't actually use them for graduation ceremonies. So it could be even more complicated. Timrollpickering 13:54, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A high proportion of the large universities don't use them any longer, but many of the small liberal arts colleges continue to use them. Highdesert (talk) 18:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bachelors hoods

message: The article seems to be too anglocentric. There should be additional detailed sections on academic dress in other non-English speaking countries, especially France, Italy, and Germany, which have a long traditon of universities dating back to the Middle Ages. Toeplitz 12:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've started researching the issue. I think it may be more appropriate if this article began with a discussion of the common history of academic dress before diving into the description of modern British academic dress. A good historical section would also provide adequate jumping-off points for discussion of robes in other countries. — Gareth Hughes 00:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  G'day Gareth, I noticed something else on the earlier segment of this page relating to the use of birettas as academic dress, which i see has erroniously been deleted as academicly piped birettas (with both three and four fins are still worn). I came across a very interesting page in German, which would be fascinating for me, if I could actually read more german than the about 4 dozen words that i know.  if someone else would like to examine it and add its contents to this page im sure it would be excellent! http://www.dieter-philippi.de/mydante_1479.html is the page. Hope someone finds it useful, and not just pretty (like I did!). Ithillion 00:29, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an article in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE WIKIPEDIA, hence I am astonished and offended by accusations of anglocentrism. If is is anglocentric at all, then So Be It. Let the French be francocentric, and so forth, and God Bless Them!!98.81.2.95 (talk) 06:04, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The language is English, but the scope is intended to be international (as with other major encyclopaedias).  -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 13:40, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Academic dress in non-English speaking countries 

message: This sentence is unclear:
"To receive membership in the Order, undergraduates must obtain and maintain between a 3.0 and 3.4 GPA (respective to class year); all students of the School of Theology receive the gown upon admission to the School."
Once a student hits 3.5 they are out?  The minimum GPA for membership is progressively higher by .1 each undergraduate year?  What?  Shoreranger 20:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Gownsmen"

message: This is being reverted a bit (albeit not by me). Part of the problem is that different universities do things differently - at some the degree is formally conferred at the ceremony itself but at others the degree is technically conferred in advance by a meeting of the Senate or whichever committee formally exercises the degree awarded powers - see Open University#Degree ceremonies for one example of this. Timrollpickering (talk) 20:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The initial editor obviously wan't aware of the word graduand at all, and just thought it was a typo for graduate.  The second attempt was just ungrammatical, the current one I can live with, though it seems a bit of a nelogism.  David Underdown (talk) 13:40, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Graduands vs Graduates 

message: Every year at graduation time I wish there were a list of universities that use non-black robes, a trend that is increasing.  There seems to be no list, other than incomplete ones at some of the regelia manufacturers, such as http://www.herffjones.com/college/regalia/index.cfm?at=1&con=1, http://www.ermoore.com/products/regalia/regSpecial.do.htm, and http://www.oakhalli.com/schools.asp.  Wikipedia seems the ideal place to build such a list.  I'd think there ought to be a table that lists by major color group (perhaps red, orange, yellow, green, cyan, blue, violet, brown, grey, white) and then lists institutions in alphabetical order in each group.  We could also have a black category to confirm schools that still use black, but this list would be long and uninteresting.  The rationale is that if someone sees a purple gown, they can go to the "violet" section of the table and then scan to match (e.g. NYU vs. Washington).  The table would have the exact name of the color (e.g. Mayfair Purple for NYU).  As an example, Washington University in St. Louis would be:
 Green
 -----
 Institution            Since ---------------Robe------------------      ------------cap-----------------  ------doctoral hood--------- cite
                        2004  color     panels      chevrons  other      type        color shape   tassel  color lining trim
 Washington University        green     black       black     seals      tam         black hexagonal gold  green red/green blue: PhD
 in St. Louis                           gold        none      shoulders                                                    orange: DSc
 ---------------------        ---------------------------------------    --------------------------------  ----------------------------
 Example U.                   sea green black       black                mortarboard black square   black  black white/blue
                                        discipline  discipline                                                   double chev.
(the second color in the panels and chevrons is the piping color; the panels, chevrons, or piping may be the ACE discipline color)
Once the table were started, the hope is that individuals from the various institutions would fill in the table.
I'm certainly not an expert in this, and the above is only a first start at a table format.  If there is interest and consensus, I could get the table started. Jpgs (talk) 15:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robe Colors (in the US) 

message: I don't think the hakama is Japanese AD proper. It is a traditional divided skirt but it is worn for other occasions as well and is not historically academically significant in Japan IMHO. More research needs to be done in this area.
--Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 16:17, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese AD 

message: A number of universities (Columbia , Harvard, et. al.) have designs on the facings. American, Andrews, Boston U. , CUNY, Claremont U., Cornell, Dartmouth, Fordham, New York U., Notre Dame, Purdue, Rutgers, USC, Stanford  are all featured on the Herff Jones webapage.
Thoughts about creating a gallery for these? Philly jawn (talk) 04:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we could split the American section off into a separate article. Any thoughts?--dave-- 17:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That may not be a bad idea - for both the American and British/Commonwealth sections.  A much-reduced 3-4 paragraph remainder for each in this article, with a link to the respective main articles, might be sufficient. Shoreranger (talk) 20:30, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: US gowns: facing designs

message: I added some information about the history of academic dresses in Germany. Feel free to improve my English ;-) 125.162.47.86 (talk) 08:38, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Germany

message: I earned my Master's Degree in Electrical Engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, Georgia, and it was my first experience with a graduate-degree hood. I had been looking into the correct hood-decoration color for engineering, electical engineering, etc., when I found out from the Institute that all of the master's degrees hoods would be decorated with yellow stripes - the Insitute's color (along with white) -- regardless of the student's academic major. Well, that was the end of the problem. Perhaps this is also done at other Institutes and colleges.At the same ceremony, we had students who were receiving master's degrees in architecture, all forms of engineereing, chemistry, information & computer science mathematics, physics, engineering management, and probably some other fields. Everybody master's degree recipient with yellow-trimmed hoods. (Also, this was in 1980, and I don't recall paying much attention to the Ph.D. recipients' hoods. Maybe they were all yellow, too.)Very good, but also a little disappointing, because I had already looked up the orange color for engineering.When Georgia Tech opened for classes in October 1888, every student majored in mechanical engineering -- but within a couple of years, Georgia Tech was among the early schools in the United States to offer a major in electrical engineering. Of course, knowledge in technology and science have exploded from there.06:25, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  An interesting twist - a simplification - of academic apparel that is not mentioned yet 

message: The inter-collegiate colors section seems to be a bit of a mess, particularly in explaining degree versus field colors. The part explaining how the color for the degree subject, rather than the degree, is worded oddly and in a confusing manner. I wasn't sure how to patch it up, so I didn't. It would seem as the second paragraph on the matter is a repetition of the first, but I wasn't sure.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashilikia (talk • contribs) 19:10, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem may stem from the pre-conceived notions concerning the colors under the ACE code, as exemplified by the the phrase "degree versus field colors."  There are no "degree colors", only "field colors."  That's it.  Degrees are symbolized by the gown style and the hood length.  Fields are symbolized by the trim colors.  The school symbolized by the hood interior lining colors. Shoreranger (talk) 01:54, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Inter-collegiate Colors

message: The Tunisia section makes no sense at all; it's not even a grammatically correct sentence. MayerG (talk) 02:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tunisia 

message: The portuguese section does not present the academic dress used in the portuguese universities. It presents the student dress.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.84.241.65 (talk) 21:55, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that most scholars of academic dress would include the costume worn by undergraduates--if such a thing is used--in the broad category of academic dress. It's inclusion here is quite appropriate. If you have information about the dress worn by graduates, please add that, as well.--dave-- 14:21, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Portuguese Section

message: Based on having attended multiple colleges and universities, it would appear to be virtually unheard of in contemporary American academia to forbid stoles, honor cords, and other regalia additions.
I am aware that the ACE guidelines state that "nothing else" may be worn with regalia. However, while most individual university dress codes for commencement that I can find do specify that they are based on ACE guidelines (assuming they mention ACE at all, which is rare), they go on to prescribe appropriate use of the sole and honor cord.
I would question whether perhaps a citation is needed to establish that ACE guidelines are widely recognized furthermore perhaps suggest that references be added which address the common deviation (which in my experience and in my research is near universal):
Stoles signifying academic affiliation or merit are typically permitted, limited to a single stole.
Honor cords representing achievements may be worn, with no limitation on the number worn.
Further deviations such as robes in school colors, alternative hats, and the like are now so common (I'd estimate perhaps as many as 25% of regionally accredited American Universities have these and more have embroidered logos and such) that it perhaps should require citation that the ACE guidelines remain a strong authority on the subject. It seems like it would be much more accurate to suggest that American universities have a wide array of loosely structured regalia codes which draw inspiration from but seldom adhere fully to ACE's standards.
A Wikipedia article really shouldn't prescribe what editors think "should be" or stand in defense of propriety but should describe "what is".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patrick00001 (talk • contribs) 16:38, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can provide peer-reviewed citations, edit way.  Otherwise what you've presented - unsigned - is largely opinon and anecdotal evidence, not suitable for an encyclopedia entry. Shoreranger (talk) 16:50, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  ACE Guidelines 

message: Although Germany is now a unified country, when the German student movement happened it was divided between West and East. The section implies that the German student movement happened only in West Germany, but I happen to know that academic regalia is still not popular in the former East-German University of Leipzig. I do not have the expertise to provide information about East German universities' academic regalia, but I think this is an omission from the article that needs to be filled. Can you help? Robert P. O'Shea (talk) 02:03, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I expanded the article with some information on East Germany. To summarize, the East German government abolished academic dress by law. Since then, many East German universities reintroduced academic dress. That University of Leipzig is not one of those is not too surprising, it has a reputation for being rather left politically. Mephistolus (talk) 22:54, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  East Germany 

message: Substituted at 06:33, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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