Talk:Brahmic scripts

message: Why does the history of the alphabet (box) start with the Middle Bronze Age 19th c. BCE? Especially as it is well known that the Indus Valley (Harappan) script is much older.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enduron (talk • contribs) 10:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OMG! why was this EVER up for deletion??? How could you begin to confuse the two - like confusing Linear A with Greek! Khirad 13:50, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Accept or not looking at the structure, each alphabets are unique and is a mother of all language with out any political reservation or superiority 
* Indic alphabets - unnessesary. Vancouverguy 19:38, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text from VfD 

message: This  bullet point:
*'u' is written below, short 'i' is written to the left if distinct from long 'i'.
looks dubious to me. I assume it doesn't fit all scripts of the brahmic family.
Pjacobi 22:21, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vowel signs 

message: When the relation between the Aramaic and Indic scripts is still shrouded in controversy and debate, why are Indic scripts mentioned under the Aramaic script in the History of Scripts? Is that not presenting a biased point of view?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iyerakshay (talk • contribs) 09:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Relation of Aramaic to Indic scripts

message: I thought it was thought to be Aramaic, as it was the lingua franca of the ancient world. Although its not proven either so perhaps its best to keep it broad. Khirad 13:50, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Semitic?

message: Each Alphabets are so unique, Sanskrit, Devnagri language is mother of all language  
The list of IPA characters for Indic script letters is not suitable because pronunciation of consonants in Indic languages varies.  Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Sukh here. Unless we specify that these IPA values are accurate for Sanskrit only, they should not be included. It's misleading. --SameerKhan 20:42, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When I inserted the table I put 'Pronunciation is taken from Sanskrit where possible, but other languages where necessary,' which is needed because of letters like Tamil ழ whose sounds are not present in Sanskrit. If we want to be precise, we could specify which are from Sanskrit and which for other languages. Moszczynski 16:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The IPA is still here.  As others above have indicated, it is grossly misleading to have this column, since pronunciations are different between different languages.  Even within one script, such as Devanagari, the pronunciation of ऋ differs between Classical Sanskrit and Modern Hindi.  Seems like something should be done?  Grover cleveland (talk) 18:42, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA 

message: Dear Wikipedians,
We apreciate your valuable contribution in article named Wikipedia:Indic transliteration scheme on english WIkipedia.
We at Marathi Language wikipedia do not have enough expertise to update IPA related info in our article, specialy we have been unable to import/update IPA templates and do not know how to use IPA symbols.Please click here-this link- to provide help to update "IPA transliteration for Indic Languages" article for  Marathi wikipedia
We seek and request for help in updating above mentioned article and would like to know relevant resources and refferences in respect of Devanagari and IPA .
Thanks and Regards
Mahitgar 16:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Seeking help and contribution

message: redirect to this page? Doldrums 13:37, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO that is not a useful generalization. The default configurations of all current operating systems lack support of some of these scripts. I am running MacOS 10.4.11 and I have researched and downloaded all the free Unicode fonts necessary to view every character in this article. It was some work, but well worth it to me. Leave a note at my Talk page if you’d like my font recommendations. MJ (t • c) 03:48, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Indic scripts]] 

message: Tamil letter ஃ is missing in the table. also ஜ, ஸ, ஷ, ஹ are not tamil letters but wrongly been included in the table. These things have to be fixed--Ravishankar 11:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tamil letters 

message: First brahmi inscription of south india is in Brahmagiri edict where kannada words are found. Brahmagiri edicts are by Ashoka. I want to edict the earliest known Brahmi inscription to this one. Any objections meghamitra 12:28, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: First Brahmi inscription south India

message: Buddhism and Brahmi script spread from Bihar via Orissa to coastal Andhra first. Sala kingdom ruling from Bhattiprolu was the earliest dynasty in South India which existed even before Mauryans. The Brahmi progenitor of Telugu-Kannada script with a few Telugu words was found on the Bhattiprolu stupa. The display boards in National Museum (New Delhi) clearly mention Bhattiprolu script first and evolution of Telugu-Kannada script from it. Historians know the script as Telugu-Kannada script but use of Kannada words to denote this script smacks of bias.Kumarrao 06:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: First Brahmi inscription is on Bhattiprolu stupa

message: Why are there two "r"s and two "l"s that can be used as vowels? Le Anh-Huy 10:29, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The question is not meaningful unless you turn it around: These scripts do have these vowels; the question is why vowel sounds are transliterated with Latin consonants. They are simply the closest sounds available in the alphabet. They are all retroflex, as indicated by the dot under the letter in transliteration. See Approximant_consonant. MJ (t • c) 13:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vowels or consonants

message: There is no dispute regarding "Telugu-Kannada script". There is abundant evidence (at least 6 authentic references) now. In fact, the use of "Old Kannada" must be discontinued as it was fabricated by biased people, which crept into webpages such as those run by Adluri and Lawrence. Gnanapiti must refrain from reverting my edit supported by citations. Kumarrao 07:40, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't start another edit war now. Your words are not final. Let everybody reach consensus on Talk:Telugu script and based on the consensus we'll change all articles. And no, don't even try to scare me with your hoax threatenings. Because I care a squat about your threatenings. I'm reverting your edits back. Gnanapiti 19:02, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Gnanapiti, may I remind you of WP:CIVIL which you should adhere to regardless of the situation. You are an experienced editor and should know better. GizzaDiscuss © 07:17, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: No dispute

message: Gnanapiti, 
As explained above, I have retained the original version. New references that came to light in favour of Telugu-Kannada script are readded without disturbing the main body. Why do you persist in reverting my edits? Is there any reason? Why do you do this without discussion? Is wiki your playground?Kumarrao 07:37, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Issue has been explained to you n times by n number of editors. I can't repeat the same thing again, again, again again and again. There is a dispute going on in Talk:Telugu script regarding the same issue and that has to be resolved first. Once the consensus is reached by all, we'll work together and change all articles according to consensus. Till then, don't push your POV in articles relating the issue. Now, please revert your edits back. By the way, why don't you work on resolving the issue in Talk:Telugu script? Unless you or User:Altruism reply there, that issue is not going to move forward. Dispute can't be resolved just by one side involved in it. And till the dispute is not resolved, don't make changes in articles. Gnanapiti 07:44, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Be reasonable

message: Currently, the table says [t̺ 	t̺ʰ 	d̺ 	d̺ʰ] which mean Apical, but I think they should be [t̪ t̪ʰ d̪ d̪ʱ] with the dental diacritics (See International_Phonetic_Alphabet#Diacritics). I'd like to change them as such, if [   ̺ ] is just a typo for  [ ̪ ]. Would that be ok? —Gyopi (talk) 09:57, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: IPA diacritics for त etc. (t̺ vs t̪)

message: The comparison chart is clearly problematic as far as Lao is concerned, and inconsistent with the Lao script article. I did not take the initiative to correct this present article given my poor IPA skills and my lack of knowledge of historical pronounciation of Lao. One thing is sure: ທ is "th"-ey in sound, and definitely not "d"-sounding and probably never was (see:  in relation to the historical assimilation process of Pali in Lao). For that matter the letter "ດ" mysteriously disappears from the chart... Some glyphs are supposed to be unrepresented but all the same. I guess the key is found in this sentence, which I can't manage to decipher: "Some pronunciations may be inaccurate or different from the ones listed, partly because the graphemically corresponding glyphs listed in the same column are not necessarily phonetically identical."
Rdavout (talk) 15:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not the one who created those big tables, but I'm the one who added that quick note, which needs some edits. The text above the table says, "Pronunciation is taken from Sanskrit", meaning IPA is correct only for Sanskrit. For another language (such as Lao), the IPA part is correct only when the pronunciation of the letter in question happens to be the same with the pronunciation of the corresponding letter in Sanskrit. If the table was about phonetics, this would be terrible, because almost everything is wrong. But the table is about letters... It just says that the letter L1 in the writing system S1 and the letter L2 in the writing system L2 were derived from the same letter of the Brahmi script. It doesn't say L1 and L2 are pronounced identically. For example, we can see Devanagari य and Oriya ଯ are in the same column, meaning that they were originally the same letter ("graphemeically corresponding" <-- this was not a good expression), while Devanagari य [ja] and Oriya  ଯ [dʒa] are phonetically not identical (i.e. they represent different sounds). Then again, the current explanation of the table may not be very good, and like you suggested there may be several problems in the table itself too.—Gyopi (talk) 13:04, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pb in the comparison chart with Lao 

message: This is an incorrect reading, This was found in Sri Lanka (not South India) and it's not Tamil. This was purposely read as Tamil by some historians (who are trying to prove Sri Lanka has Tamil Origin). External link about this reading written by me. —D dasun (talk) 13:55, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tamil-Brahmi writing found on pottery in South India and Sri Lanka 

message: I found two images which were not illustrative of the sections that they were in. Also, I added an image in Brahmi as there were none. Since this is a page about Brahmi and a number of its descendants (used cumulatively by more than a billion people), please discuss the utility of images before inserting them. Thanks. --Eukesh (talk) 06:20, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: About images

message: Hi, I can view nearly all the scripts in this article properly, except for those listed above. 
I can also correctly view the characters on the separate Wikipedia pages for the Balinese and Javanese scripts. For consistency's sake, could the fonts used on this page for Balinese, Javanese etc be changed to be the same as those used on the main pages describing those scripts? With thanks, AJ 202.93.215.105 (talk) 00:59, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I had same problem, but know I can view them properly with added syntax as well as "Tuladha Jejeg" font for Javanese, and "Aksara Bali" for Balinese. I don't know if it'll work in other computers as well. Alteaven (talk) 08:01, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balinese, Javanese, Philippines & other insular SE Asian scripts 

message: Added two other derivation of Brahmi used In Indonesia. There are several others actually, Batak, Rejang, and Rencong. But reliable information about Sundanese and Buginese are somewhat more abundant, so I only add them. 
Font for Indonesian scripts (Javanese, Balinese, Sundanese, and Buginese) does not render the vowel e correctly. It should be placed before the consonant, but it is always rendered after the consonant, unless the input is graphical rather than logical. I use logical input, which I think is the Unicode standard. For Javanese, correct rendering can be achieved by using Tuladha Jejeg font and using Mozilla browser. Anyone know about the others? Alteaven (talk) 08:15, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indonesian scripts 

message: I'm no native user of these scripts, but it seems Assamese and Bengali script are very much alike. There are some letters that are different, but the rest is same. Should it be merged? Alteaven (talk) 08:24, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very similar 

message: IMO, there's enough in this section to warrant creating an article for "List of Brahmic Scripts." That way we could shorten this article, and the new one could host a number of easy-to-read tables with more information (for example: scripts by number of users, by geography, by time period).
If we don't end up doing this, I believe "List of Brahmic Scripts" needs to redirect here. Elmsbye (talk) 02:53, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "List of Brahmic Scripts"--should it be its own article? 

message: Indic <ṭ>, <t>,  and <y> split into Thai DO CHADA v. TO PATAK, DO DEK v. TO TAO, BO BAI MAI v. PO PLA and, in Lao, LETTER NYO v. LETTER YO.  The former preserved the shape and is the usual syllable-final symbol, whereas the latter best represents the Indic spelling. LAO LETTER YO actually replaced a digraph in the area; the digraph itself (Thai อย) survives in 4 Thai words and is very much a new letter.  The same pattern applies to Tai Tham (a.k.a. Lanna) which is currently not in the table, and probably to Tai Viet.  Syllable initially, the earliest loans into Thai and Lao used the first member of the pair.  Modern Pali/Sanskrit writing uses the second member of the first three in the Thai script.
I have accordingly updated the table to use the former letter.  I have also removed the equation of LAO LETTER NYO with Indic <ñ>.
- RichardW57 (talk) 03:29, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thai-Lao Consonant Splits 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: As I read this today, "Canadian Aboriginal syllabics, 19th century" is listed as an offshoot of Nagari Gupta script on the list of Brahmic scripts.  Isn't that an error?
--Sukkoth 07:52, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear Information 

message: The first use of AD/CE/BC/BCE appears to be this edit noting a century as CE. Accordingly, as per MoS, use of AD/BC is not applicable because it does not preserve the existing style. --Pete (talk) 02:15, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  AD/CE dating 

message: The tables for consonants, vowels and numerals are getting too big to be edited comfortably. I suggest that they be moved into templates (like the Unicode charts). KLITE789 (talk) 06:16, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tables getting too big 

message: This topic maybe is related to the 'Tables getting too big' topic. Individual letters/symbols are too small for me to be able to recognize them. I tried ctrl + mousewheel but no sideways scrollbar appears, so that letters/symbols to the right are simply getting pushed out of view. Can any body help? I'm afraid I'd mess up the whole table trying. Korinthus (talk) 11:47, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Everybody please pardon me having bothered y'all. I was simply being too stupid to handle Wikipedia and my keyboard. (I really miss the 'ashamed' Emoji, right now...) Korinthus (talk) 11:58, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Scrollbar when Magnifying Tables...