Talk:Charles Curtis

message: The result of the debate was don't move. —Nightstallion (?) 12:36, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move 

message: "As of 2007, Curtis was the last U.S. Vice President or President to wear a beard or mustache—in his case, a mustache—while in office."
The inclusion of this bizarrely wonderful fact is the kind of thing that makes Wikipedia so great. ¶ 23:14, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sadly the fact was removed on 7/15/11 for want of a citation. Even though it's probably true, I was unable to find a citation either, as no one seems to carefully document vice presidents the way they do presidents. RIP bizarrely wonderful fact. --Iritscen (talk) 19:02, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I readded it Waterdrinker11 (talk) 14:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mustache 

message: Hi. I found several sources on internet saying his middle name was "Brent" (Charles Brent Curtis). Is it it true? Is it false? Švitrigaila (talk) 16:11, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to be on to something.  You could just add it and see whether anyone objects; if nobody does, then there's no need to hunt for a reliable source.  If someone objects, then you'll have to do a bit of research.  -- Zsero (talk) 18:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Brent" ? 

message: I added more to the lede to point to the importance and success of his political career - being elected as Minority Whip and Majority Leader in the Senate meant that he was an excellent leader, could move legislation and build coalitions, and could garner support. --Parkwells (talk) 13:11, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Political career

message: The lede (Introductory summary paragraph) says paternal (non-Indian); the early life section says maternal (Kaw). Shakescene (talk) 21:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reared by Maternal or Paternal grandparents? 

message: An article about a former Majority Leader of the Senate and Vice President of the United States is rated of "low importance" by the Wikiproject U.S. Congress group.  That seems odd.  Smallchief (talk) 09:50, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Low Importance?

message: First, I will be referring to these sources:
* Reference A at teachinghistory.org
* Reference B at vpcharlescurtis.net
* Reference C at vpcharlescurtis.net
Our article currently says in the lead section:
:He was enrolled in the Kaw tribe and his maternal ancestry was three-quarters Native American: Kaw, Osage and Potawatomi.
But the only citation points to Reference A, which does not say anything about his mother's specific tribal ancestry.
When I noticed this, I did a web search for other articles about him, and found that most of them did not support the claim.
Neither the Osage nor the Potawatomi were mentioned, except on one page, which is Reference B.  This says:
:Charles Curtis... was one-eighth each of Kansa Indian, of Osage Indian, of Potawatomi Indian, including 1/8th French...  If he was asked about it, he would tell you that he was one-eighth Indian, but 100% Republican.  At the time, he thought he himself was only 1/8th Indian, but with further genealogy studies, that statement was really incorrect, as shown his heritage above. 
That would explain the conflict between sources, and I think it should be mentioned in our article if it is correct.  But is it correct?
Later, our article specifically states:
:His mother, Ellen Papin (also spelled Pappan), was one-fourth French, one-fourth Kaw, one-fourth Osage, and one-fourth Potawatomi.
There is no citation at all for this, but a few sentences later, the paragraph cites Reference C, which does make this claim.
Now References B and C are from the same site, which is apparently the only site about Curtis that is authorized by his family, so you
would expect it to be correct.  But Reference C gives his ancestry in detail, and while the format is hard to follow, it does not seem
to support the statement.
Specifically, unless I'm misreading something, it says the following:
* Curtis's mother was Ellen Pappan (born 1870).
** Ellen Pappan's parents were Julie Gonville (born 1811) and Louis Pappan (born 1815).
*** Julie Gonville's parents were Louis Gonville (born 1804? [sic]) and Wy-He-See (born about 1798).  Louis Gonville is described as "from Canada... mother is Potawatomie".
**** Wy-He-See was the daughter of White Plume and Me-Na.  White Plume was a Kansa, aka Kaw; Me-Na was an Osage, related to Chief White Hair.
If this is correct it does make one person's ancestry be 1/4 French (Canadian), 1/4 Kaw, 1/4 Osage, and 1/4 Potawatomi — but that person is Julie Gonville, not Ellan Pappan.
However, when the page talks about Julie Gonville's marriage, it says that she (not Wy-He-See) was 1/2 Kansa, 1/2 Osage; and it says that Louis Pappan (not Louis Gonville) was 1/2 French, 1/2 Potawatomie.  And it doesn't give any specifics of Louis Pappan's ancestry, or not that I can understand, anyway.
If the statement that Louis Pappan was 1/2 French, 1/2 Potawatomie is correct (and not transferred by mistake from Louis Gonville), that would make Curtis 3/16 each French and Potawatomi, 1/16 each Kaw/Kansa and Osage.  Or if, for example, Pappan was pure-blood French, Curtis would then be 5/16 French and 1/16 each Kaw/Kansa, Osage, and Potawatomi.
In short, I consider it obvious References B and C, being self-contradictory, are an unreliable source and I'm flagging the specific claims of ancestry as dubious.  I hope someone can find a reliable print source that goes into these details so the correct facts can be stated.
--50.100.193.30 (talk) 11:04, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Curtis's mother was Native; his father was European-American. Pappan is a very prominent Osage and Kaw family. I found other citations and took out the mentions of specific blood quanta. Yuchitown (talk) 00:23, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tribal ancestry not as clear as stated 

message: I recently heard Curtis referred to as Indian Charlie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EzACqIJWww&feature=youtu.be.  I don't have any independent evidence, though. That term on Wikipedia only links to a racehorse.
Chipotle (talk) 21:26, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian Charlie? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Charles Curtis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131020195906/http://askville.amazon.com/President-Vice-President-Charles-Curtis-serve/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=51432553 to http://askville.amazon.com/President-Vice-President-Charles-Curtis-serve/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=51432553
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110714115355/http://www.morofilms.com/index_sub_whispers.html to http://www.morofilms.com/index_sub_whispers.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:55, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "His father was of British origins, being half-English, a quarter Scottish and half-Welsh." So his father was 125%? That's impressive. Anyone know the real story here?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C4:780:11D0:A486:8AA1:C7A2:40DF (talk) 00:36, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Father's ancestry 

message: If he is 3/8 native American , that would imply that he was the first POC VP. Can we add language to the lede?TuffStuffMcG (talk) 21:14, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  First "person of color" to be vice president of the US? 

message: I propose to remove this very specific but unsourced assertion. I tried to find a source, but was unsuccessful. Matuko (talk) 08:20, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancestry mathematics