Talk:Post–September 11 anti-war movement

message: * The “War for oil” theory (Originally was published by BEN-DROR YEMINI, MAARIV, Mars, 22, 2003)
* ABSTRACT: 
*: The European anti-war movement used anti-American and anti-Jewish sentiment to rally the people out to the streets, rasing arguments based on false conspiracy theory that the US declared war on Iraq only because it wants its oil fields, although facts contradict this.
*: Yemini refute the "war for oil" theory and try to figure why the Europeans are so anti-Americans. 
I think of how to incorperate some the issue raised in this article into the Wiki article. I would like to hear some comments before I proceed. MathKnight 18:14, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ignoring the odd conflation of the "war for oil" theory with the matter of anti-Americanism and anti-Zionism, this also involves a misunderstanding of what is meant by "war for oil". The issue isn't the price at the pump this year. The main issue is the situation some 20+ years out, when world oil supplies are running low, and a secondary issue is whether oil is priced in dollars or euros (not so much for its effect on the price of oil, but on the value of dollars). You might look at Nayna Jhaveri's Petropolitics page for a coherent statement of this position. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:33, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
To the French, it really WAS "all about oil"....all about sweat-heart oil deals for Total Al Fina... as usual, the anti-war crowd is just a bunch of pawns for Paris. 69.209.190.94 13:05, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  War for Oil 

message: This edit drastically reduces the crowd estimate for DC on September 29, 2001 without providing a source. Since the old estimate did not cite a source, either, I'm not reverting, but given that there is apparently controversy over the number, can someone cite a source? -- Jmabel | Talk 00:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crowd estimate 

message: This page is writtern in a POV editorial orriginal reasearch fasion. I belive that this partly steams from the title which sets the article up to present an editorialised content. 
To solve this problem I want to propose merging the content of the article into Anti-war, Opposition to the 2001 Afghanistan War, Protests against the invasion of Afghanistan, Opposition to the 2003 Iraq War, Protests against the 2003 Iraq war and The Left and war and then deleting the page.--JK the unwise 11:45, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge and delete 

message: This article requires a Wiki Veteran attention. If you are one of them then please resolve the proposed merges. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zer T (talk • contribs) 15 Dec 2005
: JK is duly "veteran" himself. I just think he is wrong. This article provides a narrative that needs to be somewhere to tie together a disparate group of related articles. If he thinks its tone or slant is wrong, then he should work on its tone or slant. Most of its citations are pretty solid: I know because they were the result of a long struggle between me (active in the movement) and User:MathKnight (clearly opposed to it) and neither let the other get away with bogus citations. In fact, I did a lot of research to cite his material better; if anything, I put far more work into that than into "making a case" for my own views, so I suspect that the views from within the movement are still quite underrepresented in the article. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:32, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Attention 

message: I find the inclusion of Red-green-brown alliance in the "see also" section of this article detrimental, and think its presence reperesents a backdoor polemic. If there is evidence of the antiwar movement as being systematically and deliberately anti-Semitic, which I seriously doubt, then it belongs presented as such in the article and should justify a link to it in the text. If not, then this link does not belong in the article at all. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:36, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No on has responded in over 2 months. I am removing this. - Jmabel | Talk 20:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red-green-brown alliance 

message: Has it been resolved?  There's been no change or comment regarding it for a month now. Kalkin 03:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been a few days, no objections, I'm going to remove the neutrality dispute notice.  If anyone still disputes the article's neutrality feel free to put it back as long as you explain what's still wrong on the talk page. Kalkin 21:00, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  neutrality dispute 

message: This article is still highly editorial. In my opinion the very title sets it up to be as it is a POV assertion that the resent anti-war movement can or should be defined in relation to the September 11th terrorist attacks. I have smypathy with the idea that there we can gain some illumination from looking at the modern anti-war movement from this direction though I think a better title would be Opposition to the war on terror, the point remains though that it creates an air of an essay rather then an ensycolpedia entry. On top of this I think that there are a number of specific problems with the current content. There is a lot of stuff left over from the fact that this page originated Left-wing politics, there is now a page called The Left and war which has a section about the left's relationship to post-9/11 anti-war movements. Some stuff that has ended up here might be better off moved there. This page, if it is to remain, should have a wider focus on the anti-war movement.--JK the unwise 10:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it should be moved to a page called Opposition to the "War on Terrorism", perhaps with some content merger from Criticisms of the "War on Terrorism". Kalkin 18:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Opposition to the "War on Terrorism" seems very problematic to me. This is about an anti-war movement. "Opposition to the 'War on Terrorism'" could also be construed to include the violent terrorist opposition. - Jmabel | Talk 18:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's a potential problem with any "Opposition to..." article on an anti-war movement, yet every such article besides this one is titled in that format.  It's broader, so it includes not only reasons but actions, which are actually much more clearly appropriate to Wikipedia, and confusion with violent opposition is pretty easily avoidable by a clear lead for the article. Kalkin 07:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lets try and sort this article out 

message: The section on anti-Semitism leans heavily on the writing of Amir Taheri. Given the many recent accusation of fabrications by Taheri, he is at best a questionable source. Can someone cite this more solidly? - Jmabel | Talk 18:36, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-Semitism and Amir Taheri 

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