Talk:Nabi Musa

message: This is pretty rough to start with, and is mainly a matter of discharging long-accumulated notes into sections. Once the bulk of the material has been dumped, (others are welcome with their ballast), the idea would be to cut and prune it into thematic divisions, and then revise it stylistically. Finally wikify.Nishidani (talk) 15:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Start-up

message: Arminden (talk) 03:35, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of Pal. "local development committee" needed 

message: To sum up what is not very clear yet.
MAQAM, PILGRIMAGE
*Why there? Different theories, need systematic presentation.
*Since when a tradition? Comment: Baibars probably went to Nabi Musa because of an already existing tradition.
*Date set by the Christian calendar: since when? Current explanations?
*Customs during festival and their evolution in time: what was done when.
**In which historical periods was it held, when not, who stopped it & when: what went on betwen Baibars and 19th century? Over 500 years missing!
**Procession from Jerusalem: in which historical periods? What went on outside those periods? Just local festival?
*Ottoman reconstruction, new customs: 1820s or 1850s? (Already before the Tanzimat?!)
*A Muslim tradition beyond Palestine? How come, when? See Finn's report and Indian subcontinent Isma'ili sects mentioned.
*Connection to hajj, Jerusalem pilgrimage, possibly other business travel and pilgrimage patterns & customs?
INHABITANTS, LANDS
*Inhabitants: what on Earth are we talking about?! The maqam needs a keeper, but that's one man and maybe his immediate family, if indeed he doesn't drive in from Jericho. So what is it all about? There has never been a village there. Did the PA define NM as a district, and the dozens of inhabitants mentioned here are the Bedouin living in the area? Is someone trying to establish a village there? Figures don't describe reality, but can attempt at pretending to do so.
*Confiscated land: I'm sure Israel confiscated Palestinian land around there, but what's the connection to Nabi Musa? Was it waqf land, or such belonging to some administrative unit called Nabi Musa? If the latter: what does it consist of? It certainly doesn't concern the plot around the shrine, there's nothing there apart from graves. Again: reality check. Arminden (talk) 15:37, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Important open questions 

message: "Around 1820, the Ottoman authorities had to almost fully rebuild the shrine complex, which had, over the previous centuries, fallen into a grave state of dilapidated disrepair.[see Murphy-O'Connor] In addition, they promoted a festive pilgrimage to the shrine that would always coincide with the Orthodox Christian celebration of Easter, creating a counter-balance to the Christian ceremonial activity in the city.[see Murphy-O'Connor] This 'invention of tradition', as such imaginative constructs are called,[see Hobsbawm] made the pageantry of the Nabi Musa pilgrimage a potent symbol of both political and religious identity among Muslims from the outset of the modern period.[see Friedland & Hecht, Murphy-O'Connor]"
Questions:
* "Around 1820" looks dubious, not 1850s? O'Connor is not always reliable. Here too, he has the Muslim procession LEAVE Jerusalem on Orthodox Good Friday, while more reliable sources have them return on Maundy Thu. and have a procession through Jerusalem at the VERY END of the festival week. Also, he claims that the Brits prohibited it in 1948 - they left on May 15, the civil war was in full swing, somewhat unlikely that they bothered about Nabi Musa a month before leaving. One cannot rely too much on his details.
* Beyond 1820s or 50s: Wasn't it an older tradition, from the time of Baibars or thereabout? The competition with Christian pilgrims and their presence in Jerusalem is much older, and fits the Mamluk period far better (counter-Crusade).
* Was there no set date before 1820? So no festival, just people coming in whenever they happened to be around?
* Of Friedland & Hecht, Google Books only offers irrelevant snippets. Does anyone have the book, to give us a full-text quote? As of now, it brings almost nothing beyond what we get from other, online accessible sources. Arminden (talk) 00:56, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Information from this source should definitely be incorporated here. I just added a quick snippet, but not sure if schedule will allow me to continue expansion anytime soon. Al Ameer (talk) 03:17, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  No festival before 1820s? Really? (1820s or 1850s?) 

message: Articles by students before graduation are not acceptable sources. I also noted several major problems with Boltanski's article. It all has to go, no question. Zerotalk 15:07, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Look, it is very simple. If you can find sources that satisfy the reliability rules, use them. At the moment you have put in multiple citations to a source that is hardly more than a blog post written by a student. It isn't good enough. I'm reluctant to go through and remove everything cited to this source because it would leave the article in a mess. But I'm perfectly entitled to do that. I'm bringing this here instead of attacking the article with an axe to give you the chance to correct your error. Zerotalk 02:55, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Boltanski again 

message: Is there any more scientific evidence to support the claims that MoSeH's (Musa's) body is in the Tomb at Nabi Musa? (one person having a dream and claiming it is there can be said to be evidence [witness, etc.] if that witness/evidence is substantiated by further credible proof; however, if not, then the person is not a credible witness.)
 I noticed that with the Christian claim that his body is at the Tomb on the top of the mountain peak now called "Siyagha" that the tomb is found empty and, as far as I am aware, no biological materials have been discovered (blood, or tissue, etc.).
 I am not aware of any Zionists, or Judaists making any claims similar.
Thank you for your time, and I hope this is approached peacefully.
 Respectfully, Zion.BenYaHoshuWaH (talk) 00:36, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scientific Evidence 

message: If you think it is helpful to make the entry more colorful and interesting
05:21, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure. Why not? That's added. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:19, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

text: Thanks! Agmonsnir (talk) 05:26, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest to add an updated image 

message: Is it fine for the area to be converted to acres or hectares? i feel these would be more familiar to the English speaking wiki Roboduckdragon (talk) 22:09, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Area of Settlements