Talk:Empire of Atlantium/Archive 1

message: :The Empire of Atlantium is a social and political advocacy group based in Sydney, Australia, that pretends to be a sovereign state. It claims to have been established in 1981, by a group of three teenagers, and to have now approximately 1,000 members, in over 60 countries. George Francis Cruickshank plays the role of head of state as "Emperor George II".
# "claim" implies a measure of substance or legitimacy. -- Viajero 16:11, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Pretends

message: :The Empire of Atlantium is a social and political advocacy group based in Sydney, Australia, that claims to be a sovereign state. It claims to have been established in 1981, by a group of three teenagers, and to have now approximately 1,000 members, in over 60 countries. George Francis Cruickshank acts as head of state with the title "Emperor George II."
#Anthony DiPierro
#moink
#Gene Poole - no evidence has been advanced to justify use of the "pretends" version promoted by the troll who has been regularly vandalising this article.
#Delirium - but should also mention the word micronation with a link, for an explanation of the whole phenemenon
#Meelar Agree with Delirium
#Ryan_Cable
#*-- The unvandalised article already clearly states the "micronation" connection. Gene Poole
#IMSoP - as far as I can see, it's undeniable that they claim this status, and saying so neither validifies nor refutes this claim.
#PenguiN42 - I fail to see how "claim" implies anything other than the fact that they made a claim, which they did. However, "pretend" is hugely POV. Pretend explicitly means "To give a false appearance of/To claim or allege insincerely or falsely/To represent fictitiously in play; make believe." Saying "pretend" is tantamount to giving the point of view that their claim is illegitimate. Saying "claimed" is simply relaying the facts with a NPOV.
#Angela. This one sounds more NPOV without being untrue.
#Bryan. IMO it is a statement of fact when one says that someone claims something, but it is a statement of opinion when one says that someone is pretending something.
#silsor 22:59, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC)
#TKinias.  As crackpot as the whole thing is, ‘pretends’ is not very NPOV... —Tkinias 11:22, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Claims

message: all of these funds actually end up in the emperors back pocket. This is not only massive PoV, it's missing an apostrophe.  Pakaran. 13:13, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Back pockets?

message: Given that the contact number above goes to voice mail during the day, perhaps it might be pertinent to indicate that its a "fly-by-night" nation.Fifelfoo 04:28, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The Emperor obviously works abroad ;) Pakaran (ark a pan) 14:25, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Empire unmanned during office hours

message: Hello all. I've just stumbled across this in doing some research for an article, and notice that there seems to be some controversy about the alleged 1981 foundation date. If it's of interest, I've actually been in recent telephone contact with the group and as a result I've been able to uncover a number of references to the "Empire of Atlantium" in the Australian national stamp magazine "Stamp News" in the period 1984-85. AFAIC that is solid proof that they existed in the early 1980s. Shouldn't the wording be changed to reflect this? Should I add my references to the article? There are about half a dozen all told. --Centauri 00:34, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You should place a vote for the wording of this one sentence below. Samboy 05:49, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Why? I don't think any of the suggested versions is appropriate.--Centauri 05:53, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm.  Time to add a hird option, then. Samboy 05:55, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: Oh, I think adding references and what not is appropriate. Samboy 05:55, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: I have changed the article to what I think it should be by adding an extra sentence mentioning the media references in 1984. I have also added the earliest reference that I have to the bottom of the page. I hope this is OK. --Centauri 06:06, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The changes look good.  Thanks for the contribution! Samboy 07:09, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: I don't believe the Empire is a signer to the Berne Convention. I'd check the government's website for info on their policy on copyright of government works, but the country must be having serious information infrastructure problems today. :) - Keith D. Tyler [flame] 18:14, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
Maybe someone should ask him? He seems a pretty agreeable chap. Then again, who owns the copyright - him or the magazine? --Centauri 05:44, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: 1980s claims