Talk:Queen Camilla/Archive 3

message: Should the article's lead sentence include the term "Princess Charles, Princess of Wales"?Please consider the debate at Talk:Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall/archive2 before voting.
Yes
#Emsworth 19:50, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Vote

message: Someone stuck a "number" tag on my comment above to count it as a "no" vote.My browser's line-length limit won't let me remove that tag,but I don't count my comment as a no vote!--Louis E./le@put.com/12.144.5.2 16:34, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it a "yes" vote, then, or just a neutral comment? -- ALoan (Talk) 19:00, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Help!

message: See copy of their marriage certificate at BBC News.
This shows Prince Charles' surname as PRINCE OF WALES and not MOUNTBATTEN WINDSOR or WINDSOR Astrotrain 21:00, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
:That is his title, not his surname. Peers do not have surnames. -- Emsworth 21:11, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That last statement is manifestly untrue. Peers do have surnames. I suggest that you look up the following peers and tell me that they don't have surnames. Dabbler 21:39, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Peers, Dabbler, still do not have legal surnames; that is to say, no surname would appear on an official document. The title replaces the surname. Thus, the individuals you refer to are properly known as "Edward, Duke of Norfolk," "Alexander, Marquess of Bath," and "John, Earl of Sandwich." It is conventional, however, to use surnames in encyclopedias and other reference works. -- Emsworth 23:34, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe you have the situation slightly off.The most formal documents will include a peer's surname,but they are not legally required for ordinary use.--Louis E./le@put.com/12.144.5.2 00:26, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: A surname is merely a legal family name and dukes, earls etc. etc. have legal family names which are used by other members of their families., Lord Randolph Churchill, Winston's father, was a younger son of the Duke of Marlborough who was descended from John Churchill, the first Duke of Marlborough. However, the common usage when addressing the peer is not to use the family name but merely the title. What about someone like Viscount Montgomery of Alamein. He was called Bernard Montgomery before he became a peer. I would draw your atention to BURKE'S PEERAGE, BARONETAGE & KNIGHTAGE, one of whose sections is entitled "Surnames of Peerage Families".Dabbler 01:03, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, re Lord Bath ... I once went to Longleat and conducted an extensive interview with him for an American magazine, and believe me, he is quite aware of his surname and its legality, et cetera, to the point of dropping the traditional final "e" (Thynne) because he believes that it is nonhistorical and basically an error of spelling that has held firm over the centuries. Peers do use their surnames on occasions. But, yes, it is common and indeed usual for a peer to couple his first name with his title ie Alexander Bath, when he becomes the title holder. But that does not negate a surname that nearly everyone else in his family uses daily. Mowens35 08:56, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Marriage certificate