Talk:Mikhail Khodorkovsky

message: Does anyone else think the word "mate" should be changed to "inmate"? Instead of saying he was attacked by a "prison mate", I think it would be more accurate to say "prison inmate". "Mate" makes it sound like the guy's a close friend, because "mate" is British slang for "friend", pal" or "buddy".Sdsures (talk) 17:01, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation of various in paragraph: "On 13 April 2006, Khodorkovsky was attacked by a prison mate while he was asleep."...

message: For example, the sentence stating that government figures made allegations against K., but in the word of the article "These assertions were false" - BUT asserted without sourcing. Also the lack of analysis of how K. became a big wheel in the Russia of the 90's is rather obvious omission - something should be done about balance in the article, or we should have conclude that K. is a Mahatma Gandhi or a Martin Luther King.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.97.65.8 (talk) 21:50, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Enforce attribution mandate

message: Where did Khordokorvsky get capitalization for Menatap?  The article doesn't address this aspect of his history.  Could Menatap have simply been an investment vehicle for Rothschild?
CarolSeerCarolSeer (talk) 18:26, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Money laundering, murder, destruction of evidence. This guy has been no angel at any stage of his career. It's bewildering that the US state department came out and scolded the Kremlin for a "politically motivated" prosecution. Somewhere there is a US business interest being served. As the wikileaks cables revealed, the state department has been involved in other high-level diplomatic maneuvers on behalf of US business interests in Russia. The article would benefit from including an analysis of who is actually pulling the strings in this particular case. --MoonLichen (talk) 11:09, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Should I remind you about WP:LIBEL? Artem Karimov (talk) 16:30, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

text: This site does not look like a reliable source. Artem Karimov (talk) 16:36, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll kindly point out that it is not libel to call someone a criminal who has been convicted as such. Ben Aris is a reputable, internationally syndicated journalist who has been a foreign correspondent in Eastern Europe for nearly 20 years. He wrote for The Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, and is a contributor to The Wall Street Journal. He is an authority on the region and as reliable a journalist as any on this topic. --MoonLichen (talk) 05:01, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Please kindly read WP:RS. Only information published by reliable sources is admissible, regardless of who wrote it. Also, since this person, a convicted criminal, has not been charged or convicted of murder etc, this is cannot be mentioned. - BorisG (talk) 05:43, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Why doesn't BNE http://www.bne.eu/storyf792 meet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RS#News_organizations? --Nbauman (talk) 04:54, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It does meet reliable sources, and there is a lot of content attributed to Khodorovsky's lawers that doesn't , and should be removed.93.96.148.42 (talk) 18:15, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  BNE article 

message: The discussion to this article isn't particularly long. Why was it archived? Arguably the tiny archive link will not be found by users less familiar with Wikipedia. With a neutrality tag, I think all the discussion about the article should be easily visible. 71.175.4.207 (talk) 20:41, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it is almost 2 years old. It is done automatically. - BorisG (talk) 16:46, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the info. The neutrality tag is now two years old as well as the citations tag. It would seem those matters were resolved given no discussion in considerable time. Should not the tags then be removed? 71.175.4.207 (talk) 17:08, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea whether they have been addressed. In my view, the article is not in good shape; there is nothing about the rise of Yukos etc. Most of the article talks about the criminal case. Just like Moshe Katsav (convicted same day as Khodorkovsky). This is a decease of Wikipedia. News senstations make disproportional place. - BorisG (talk) 17:26, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but it is all about reliable sources. The more RS the more info. Artem Karimov (talk) 22:04, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There are litterally thousands of reliable sources on K. But nobody cares about them until there is a spike in the media. This number game is ridiculous. It does not exist in any print encyclopedia. - BorisG (talk) 06:28, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Find them! Artem Karimov (talk) 15:30, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Why archive a fairly short discussion?

message: "…a dependent court is in no way better than a bandit’s club", commented Mikhail Khodorkovsky in response to written questions submitted to him on December 31, 2010, after the second trial. "Both tools are equally unacceptable for settling grievances in a civilized society." Khodorkovsky’s lawyers "invited four newspapers, including the IHT, to submit written questions to him after the second trial. The questions were given to him on Dec. 31, and the replies were delivered" in late January 2011. Excerpts from the questions and answers can be read in A Prisoner in Russia, with background added by Andrew E. Kramer: Comments by Imprisoned Russian Tycoon Challenge Medvedev. Asteriks (talk) 01:21, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  January 2011 interview From MK's Moscow prison 

message: It is more important that he is a convicted criminal. he is no longer an oligarch.93.96.148.42 (talk) 18:06, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Convicted criminal in lede, before former oligarch

message: The categorization of a person widely perceived in the democratic world to be a political prisoner as a "criminal" appears to violate neutrality. Tataral (talk) 08:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Erm, enough of the ranting. Russia has no functioning judiciary, so "criminal" gets close to meaningless in some cases - like this one. "Convicted of a crime" is more neutral I guess.Malick78 (talk) 22:26, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Categorization of political prisoners as "criminals"

message: The following explains changes I am about to make to the "early years" section of Khodorkovsky's entry. These changes reflect editorial and biographical misrepresentations and inaccuracies. 
MISREPRESENTATION: "He then attempted and succeeded in building a career as a communist functionary." EXPLANATION: Khodorkovsky was not a communist "functionary"; his involvement in a political youth group at university cannot be characterized as a "career as a communist functionary". On the contrary, he was just a politically-active youth with business ideas and an entrepreneurial streak. His later government appointments were after the breakup of the Soviet Union and were not communist party appointments. CORRECTION: To fix this, the sentence should be deleted, and then in the last sentence of the same paragraph, the word "career" should be changed to "involvement", as follows: "The Komsomol involvement was one of the ways to get into the ranks of communist apparatchiks and to achieve the highest possible living standard."
MISREPRESENTATION: "He acquired Yukos for $300 million." CORRECTION: "In 1995, he acquired Yukos, which had debts exceeding $3.5 billion, for an estimated $300 million." OR "In 1995, he acquired the near-bankrupt Yukos, which had debts exceeding $3.5 billion, for an estimated $300 million." EXPLANATION:
It is not quite accurate to write just that Yukos was acquired for $300 million. The purchase price (which has been estimated lower and higher than $300 million) must be considered against the fact that the company at the time was near bankruptcy and had huge debts ($3.5 billion). So to be objective, the purchase price should be stated with a reference to the company's debts. Otherwise the $300 million does not mean much and actually misrepresents the value of what was acquired in 1995. Timeline: The rise and fall of Yukos BBC News, 31 May, 2005 Also, the year (1995) should be included, as in the proposed corrected versions above.
INACCURACY: "Armed with cash from his business operations, Khodorkovsky and his partners used their international connections to obtain a banking licence to create Bank Menatep in 1989" CORRECTION: "Khodorkovsky and his partners obtained a banking license to create Bank Menatep in 1989." EXPLANATION: International connections would not help to obtain a Soviet banking license in 1989: Soviet bureaucratic connections wold be determinative, not foreign connections. There is no proof of how much "cash" Khodorkovsky put into Menatep (Was it his cash? Other people's cash? Impossible to know.) The text as currently written confuses Khodorkovsky's personal wealth with wealth that he may have been accumulating in corporate entities. So it is much more objective simply to state: "Khodorkovsky and his partners obtained a banking license to create Bank Menatep in 1989."
INACCURACY:
"Bank Menatep was also successful in forcing the government to award them the right to manage funds allocated for the victims of the Chernobyl nuclear accident."
EXPLANATION: Without any back-up (footnote), this is too strong a statement to make ("forcing the government"). I have looked for proof and have been unable to find any. So the sentence should either be made value-neutral (by dropping the word "forcing"), or it should be just deleted altogether (since the article is very long anyway). CORRECTION: Option 1: "The government granted Bank Menatep the right to manage funds allocated for the victims of the Chernobyl nuclear accident."
Option 2: Delete the sentence.
REDUNDANCY:
"Khodorkovsky's connections with Komsomol and CPSU structures would prove critical in his success." EXPLANATION: This is redundant because it repeats what is said above under "Early life". RECOMMENDATION: Delete the sentence. Rights4russia (talk) 19:52, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  edits to the "early years" section 

message: I don't know much detail about Khodorkovsky and thus don't have strong opinions about the man, but I'd urge all editors involved to make sure additions to the article are clearly sourced. For example, a sentence like "Khodorkovsky's connections with Komsomol and CPSU structures would prove critical in his success" appears inappropriate to me without a reliable source or two to back it up; since this is a slightly interpretative claim, it's probably to attribute it to a specific source within the text as well: "According to Russian business writer xxxxxx, MK... ". Just to be clear, I don't object to any of this information appearing in the article if such reliable sources exist; but my understanding of WP:BLP is that it mandates that those reliable sources be found. Thanks to all those continuing to work on this controversial case, Khazar2 (talk) 16:10, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced information 

message: Merger with Sibneft section is a summary of one article, which is not even cited, and comes off as incredibly biased. Remove/rewrite section suggestions? Cosainsé (talk) 17:51, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: ãgreed. no suggestions tho at this time, Cosainsé. cheers tho. Azx2 16:52, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV Merger with Sibneft 

message: Any reliable sources that his father is Jewish and is religious Jew (His father is Jewish and his mother is Christian)?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lola Rennt (talk • contribs) 18:47, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jew 

message: The information seems to be based entirely on information from one source and article (Wolosky) basically implicating Khodorkovsky in a number of significant crimes.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.19.26.54 (talk) 12:25, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: agreed. Azx2 16:50, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sibneft Merger Section Biased? 

message: He was arrested in 2003 --"He was arrested on 25 October 2003, to appear before investigators as a witness, but within hours of being taken into custody he was charged with fraud. The government under Vladimir Putin then froze shares of Yukos shortly thereafter on tax charges." then how can the following statement is true? "in 2004, Khodorkovsky was the wealthiest man in Russia and one of the richest people in the world, ranked 16th on Forbes list of billionaires." All his wealth was gone in 2003 so how could he be the wealthiest man in Russia in 2004? This doesn't make any sense. I think this should be fixed.97.116.168.195 (talk) 10:27, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discrepancy within the article 

message: "In 1995 Menatep acquired a major Russian oil producer, Yukos, which had debts exceeding $3.5 billion, for $300 million.[14][15] Some authors (e.g. the French commentator Jacques Sapir) attribute the relative low price of the purchase to the shadow arrangements with the Yeltsin government.[16]"
The second sentence completely ignores the reality. What it passes off as "shadow arrangements" are well known. In the mid-1990s the Yeltsin government engaged in the so-called "loans for shares" scandal. The government borrowed money from "oligarchs" and put up the country's productive capacity as collateral, all with the intention of defaulting on the loans and thus transferring the public's property (state ownership) to the oligarchs at frivolous prices. THAT's how Menatep got Yukos.
The whole story of Khodorkovsky is distorted as the article currently stands.
:: I had known the communist system and had been intrigued how someone could have "bought" such a company as Yukos. I asked an elderly Russian couple, who seemed to be really pro-Khodorkovsky, through an interpreter in the most innocent voice 'well,  where did he get that money from?' Answer: "From the Red Army", which left me speechless and I didn't go any further like 'was the Red Army a bank at the time?' Someone in the energy industry then said that Khdorkovsky had prepared to sell the gas interests to Exxon, confirmed by participants later in a docu. I did hear also that the Red Army can be hired to protect cash transports. Another Russian told me that the BT money lost in Russia, which bankrupted the company, was really the money that was used by Khodorkovsky to aquire Yukos. And some of that BT money (coming in through the IMF) really came from Enron. When Khordorkovsky was prevented to sell Yukos to the 'rightful' owners, that's when the situation between the US and Russia started to deteriorate. Now we understand that winding road of money, follow the money: BT/Enron money to IMF, to Red Army, to Khodorkovsky, loans,   Yukos becomes Khodorkovsky's 'property' and when he could not fulfill his part of the deal, Russia began to be punished. Follow the money. I think that's a possible explanation/clarification. Ally Hauptmann-Gurski 121.209.56.9 (talk) 05:02, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acquisition of Yukos distorted 

message: Yesterday Khodorkovsky stated "Some of my relatives live in Ukraine", I have thought about inserting this in Mikhail Khodorkovsky#Early life. But decided it is not important enough to do so... (it would be different he had stated he was partly of Ukrainian decent) If you feel different... Go ahead and do it yourself. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:37, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some of his relatives live in Ukraine 

message: AP reported the following on December 23, 2013 reflecting Khodorkovsky's latest public comments just two days after his release, saying "The 50-year-old appeared composed at his first public appearance since his release, saying he shouldn’t be viewed as a symbol that there are no more political prisoners in Russia. He added that he would do “all I can do” to ensure the release of others."  
205.170.118.162 (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2013 

message: Khodorkovsky was a tool of subversion and geopolitical manipulation against Russia. Here is why he was really imprisoned:http://www.voltairenet.org/article168007.html
Even according to the Daily Telegraph, he was a rather fishy character and not the humanitarian marketed in the media; of course this is spun here:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3607189/This-man-is-now-the-peoples-billionaire.html
And keep the contextualized history of western ambitions against Russia in context to this as noted here by Tony Cartalucci:http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/wall-street-vs-russia.html
Also, Peter Lavelle's excellent commentary here:http://rt.com/op-edge/khodorkovsky-pardon-myths-putin-620/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyCartalucciFan (talk • contribs) 02:08, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Please Remove Propaganda

message: Subsequent to Khodorkovsky's arrest, Leonid Nevzlin gained a controlling stake in Yukos when Khodorkovsky handed him a 60% share in the holding company that controlled the firm.
The link to that source is broken, the source that I have says the shares passed to Jacob Rothschildhttp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/nov/2/20031102-111400-3720r/http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/article42381.ece 01:57, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the paragraph, thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:40, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shares of Yukos 

message: His prison something treated. On YouTube Video  noticeable kortikale myopathy.
(Wikipedia User's even suggested [(O. Barack)] to create a Privat-Club  of poisoning.
 What helped him? I do not want to share Mikhail Khodorkovsky  respected. Experience, knowledge (free of charge)?195.244.180.59 (talk) 16:17, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the state of health has improved Master  Mikhail Khodorkovsky   ? 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: This section contains several sentences that are clearly biased and do not provide an objective representation of factual information. The sentence "This in itself is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY." sticks out in particular.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.106.221.230 (talk) 20:03, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV dispute - Menatep section 

message: The most recent information in this entry is over five years old already.--98.111.164.239 (talk) 11:28, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  No information since 2015? 

message: @Txbangert What exactly do you want to discuss? And did you read MOS:FIRST, WP:OR and WP:NPOV? Renat 15:35, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Txbangert 

message: :https://khodorkovsky.com/dossier-center/
Should be mentioned. Xx236 (talk) 09:46, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dossier Center 

message: Going through the article, a decidedly pro-Khodorkovsky tone is quite apparent....This is presumably the case because Khodorkovsky is anti-Putin, therefore generating reflexive support from many in the West.  But of course two things can be true at the same time - Khodorkovsky can be anti-Putin, and it can ALSO be true that he was a very corrupt oligarch who made most of his vast fortune through disreputable means.  I've also noticed that the article draws quite heavily (throughout most of its sections) on the commentary of activist/journalist Masha Gessen.  It would probably be a good idea to diversify the sourcing in order to provide more balance.  A good place to start would be this article, entitled "Is Khodorkovsky Really the Victim?", from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington. -2003:CA:872F:5A7F:7D5B:24BC:58EF:3125 (talk) 12:32, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whitewash 

message: This edit summary so fundamentally misunderstands grammar that it almost is funny. It causes us to wonder about the English proficiency of its author. Or maybe s/he just made a careless slip at the end of a day.
At issue is the following text: "On 21 May 2023 German police announced that they were investigating a potential assassination attempt of the Russian exiles who had attended Khodorkovsky's meeting."
It is beyond comprehension that this is an infringement of WP:BLP and we ask  to explain their rationale for this edit summary. Herreshoffian (talk) 14:27, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, I am really happy that we have a user with 4K edits who can teach me Wikipedia policies. The text you added implies that Khodorkovsky has something to do with the assassination attempt, whereas it is clear forma all available sources that he does not. Indeed the two ladies felt unwell after the meeting he organized (one later said she had the issues before), but the main conjecture is that FSB arranged the attempt, and nobody says Khodorkovsky has anything to do with this. This is clear BLP violation. The material does not belong to THIS article, though it might very well belong to some other article. Ymblanter (talk) 16:04, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

text: I am sorry but at this point ANI is your only way forward. You are not my mentor nor my prosecutor. Ymblanter (talk) 21:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

text: If the text implies noting of the sort, it should not be in the article because of WP:DUE. Ymblanter (talk) 21:17, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:Ymblanter]]'s misunderstanding of [[WP:BLP]]  

message: Even during imprisonment. Wife of Mr. Khodorkovsky. Informed the public. . About intentions. Production shops (firm/firms) were opened. For tailoring. Tailoring. Is there any current news? How is this business going? GDP gave its consent? Eventuel Bortnikov, ... Kostyukov.SdsuresNr.2 (talk) 11:52, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sewing shops.