Talk:Folsom Prison Blues

message: I see several sources including the main Johnny Cash singles chronology article on wikipedia that show So Doggone Lonesome as the A-Side, I'm trying to fix the Infobox information and would like some definitive answers  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gimpboy76 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: A-side or B-side?

message: Sharon Waxman of the New York Times states that Folsom Prison Blues was plagiarized from a Gordon Jenkins song, "Crescent City Blues".  Waxman cites the same Streissguth book that's cited in this article.  Anyone know about this?  Is it accepted fact, or a disputed allegation?  There's nothing about it in Wikipedia.  If it's true it seems like a pretty big deal, given how influential the song is. --Allen 07:37, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this is pretty widely accepted and reported in many sources (Streissguth, Turner, etc.).  I added a couple sentences addressing this. David Koller 13:36, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to amplify on your answer, doesn't Streissguth mention that Jenkins (who worked with such greats as Sinatra) knew about the plagiarism for several years--but did not demand reparations until the enormous success of the "Live at Folsom Prison" album? If memory serves, it was a settlement to the "tune" of $100,000. [user: Thomconn]
ITs a song...
"A disputed allegation"?? The melody, changes, chord structure and many of the lyrics are identical. It would be a mathematical impossibility that all of this is coincidental.{75.69.241.91 (talk) 20:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

text:  Concerning the Crescent City Blues issue, "Borrowed many of the same lyrics" is an understatement and a misrepresentation. It wasn't "many"; it was all the lyrics. There are several lines, even entire stanzas, which are exactly identical to the Jenkins lyrics and in the case of the remaining lines only enough words are changed needed to change the story. The article should say something to the effect that Cash, "adapted lines and copied complete stanzas of the song Crescent City Blues. BashBrannigan (talk) 04:10, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

text: You obviously know infinitely more about this topic than I do, and it wouldn't surprise me if you were right, however, you'll need a reference in order to say "it was common practice at the time." The link you gave on this page is a blog and likely not sufficient. Also, as I'm sure you're aware, it was not unknown in those days for white artists to "borrow" from black artist without any financial compensation. Surely, that was not OK? BashBrannigan (talk) 22:25, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  NYT charges plagiarism 

message: Perhaps it's a glitch in my browser (or rather browsers, since I tried to download the page in IE, Opera and Firefox), but the currently displayed version of the page does not reflect the latest revision. --Ghirla -трёп- 07:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Glitch? 

message: The article contained the complete lyrics.  While the use of short quotes for the purpose of critical analysis is allowed, the non-critical wholesale copying of lyrics in the article seems to be a clear violation of copyright.  I thus removed the lyrics.  --Jayron32|talk|contribs 06:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed lyrics... clear copyright violation 

message: :Image:Johnny Cash - Fulsom Prison Blues (Live).ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 23:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Johnny Cash - Fulsom Prison Blues (Live).ogg

message: Heading added by Wank Hilliams (talk) 10:10, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prisoners cheering the "Reno" line 

message: I have removed the following paragraph:
::The song does not clarify why the protagonist is serving time in a California State Prison - as opposed to a Federal Penitentiary. Controversy among listeners exists over why the protagonist is serving time in California due to the song's lack of information about which place called "Reno" is referenced in this story of fiction. The simplest explanation is that "Reno" most probably indicates Reno Junction, California, as no other explanation seems to explain the situation. Some have noted that there are places called Reno, Nevada, or El Reno, Oklahoma, and the county of Reno, Kansas.
*Taking the silliest thing first: Obviously, Reno means Reno, the one in Nevada.  Scrounging for these other place names containing the word Reno is blatant original research.
*Why isn't the singer in a Nevada prison? Because Cash needed it to be in Folsom, and "Reno" sounded good.
*And if we're going to get this concerned about accuracy, there's no reason to think the shooter would be in a federal prison.  Few homicides are federal cases, and far fewer were in 1955.  The only plausible way this would have been a federal case is if Cash's protagonist had kidnapped the victim and taken him across state lines.
Now, it is a slightly jarring aspect of the song, and it would be nice to acknowledge that, but it needs to be done better, preferably with sources. --Trovatore (talk) 01:36, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly because Cash was in Landsberg, Germany, when he wrote the song, he was unable to contact his family's attorneys to clarify the jurisdictional issues. Of course, he should have substituted "Berkeley" for "Reno" as soon as Elvis Presley pointed out his blooper, but clearly Cash was rather careless about legal technicalities, and possibly aggrieved that Presley had plagiarised the song with "Jailhouse Rock". This is why I prefer to base my understanding of the law on Bob Marley songs.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:55, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

text: Prisoners convicted of a crime in one state may end up serving their time in another, especially if there are concerns about overcrowding, safety, escape attempts, etc. It's also possible that the murderer is a repeat offender, and is actually incarcerated for another offense. 108.246.206.139 (talk) 21:14, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps he used a sniper rifle from the Californian side of the border.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:57, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed speculation on jurisdiction 

message: An interesting aspect of the song is that the singer "shot a man in Reno." Reno is in the State of Nevada; Folsom Prison is just outside of the city of Folsom, California.
:Prisoners convicted of a crime in one state may end up serving their time in another, especially if there are concerns about overcrowding, safety, escape attempts, etc. It's also possible that the murderer is a repeat offender, and is actually incarcerated for another offense. 108.246.206.139 (talk) 21:14, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps he used a sniper rifle from the Californian side of the border.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:57, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible simple answers to the jurisdiction question

message: I would recommend that the entire unreferenced list of cover versions be deleted.  It's been an influential song and lots of people have covered it, but the covers are not more important than Cash's version, and that list is entirely too long. ---RepublicanJacobiteTheFortyFive 02:16, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cover versions 

message: Drive-by comment regarding these (and no, nothing to do with jurisdiction in Reno!). The lead mentions that this song is an example of a Train Song, but there's nothing in the body to explain why, or what makes it a train song. Likewise, the article mentions "the Reno line", several times, but doesn't say what that line is. (I do see that both of these references were removed at some point in the first page of the article history.)
Those of us familiar with the song will understand the meaning, but someone unfamiliar will be left confused; if they want to understand further, they will have to go elsewhere... not the goal we're looking for here, I imagine. What says the page? Rails (talk) 22:12, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The Reno Line" and "Train Song" references 

message: I came here to find out who performed each instrument/part on the original recording. Alas, that information is not here. --67.176.133.158 (talk) 15:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now added those details.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:56, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Band Personnel 

message: For some time now I have noticed a strong similarity in the melodies of the two songs "Folsom Prison Blues" by Johnny Cash and "That's All Right Momma" by Elvis Presley.  I had simply assumed that both songs had been authored by the same songwriter.  Now I have learned to my surprise that this was not the case.  Which leads me to wonder whether there were ever any accusations of plagiarism made in connection with either of these songs.  from Bill Bannon
:As the article says, "Folsom Prison Blues" was based on "Crescent City Blues" by Gordon Jenkins, which in turn was based on a 1930s piano tune of the same title by Little Brother Montgomery.   Arthur Crudup's "That's All Right Mama" came from the same blues tradition.  I doubt if anyone is able to pinpoint who "wrote" the melody of either tune - they emerged from the folk music tradition as expressed by now-anonymous black musicians.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:00, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similarity between the songs "Folsom Prison Blues" and "That's All Right Momma" 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Folsom Prison Blues. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110524100207/http://anecdotage.com/index.php?aid=19944 to http://anecdotage.com/index.php?aid=19944
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130606075021/http://musica.co.za/cd/id/6005298026996/Ray_Dylan-Goeie_Ou_Country_-_Op_Aanvraag to http://www.musica.co.za/cd/id/6005298026996/Ray_Dylan-Goeie_Ou_Country_-_Op_Aanvraag#contents
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:45, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified