Talk:Niten Ichi-ryū

message: I am under the understanding that Niten Ichi is predominantly practised with two katana, and not with a katana and wakazashi pair.  What little I recall of Musashi's writings I think he recommended training right from the beginning with two katana, as he regarded this as the most desirable practice and said it would be difficult to have the off-hand un-learn the wakazashi in order to pick up a katana. --Enlashok 22:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I recollect, fighting would usually be done with the daisho; the twin katana thing I'd only heard for training. --Gwern  (contribs) 00:49, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: No, the 'two katana' is a mistake in one of the English translations (Victor Harris) but other translations (Tokitsu, Cleary etc) do not translate Musashi's text with this error in.  Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu's 'Nito Seiho' is done with kodachi (short sword) in the left hand and odachi (long sword) in the right. - BigScottUK 21:08, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Two Katanas vs Katana and Wakazashi

message: I have edited out "Kuroyama Roiyaru" from the lineage. Please see Kenji Tokitsu's "Miyamoto Musashi: His Life and Writings" pp. 130-131, William Scott Wilson's "The Lone Samurai" p. 178, and Imai Masayuki's "Miyamoto Musashi: Dokkodo, Niten Ichi Ryu Seiho" p.127 (japanese language). Terao Kumenosuke Nobuyuki was a direct student of Miyamoto Musashi and received direct transmission from him. There was no one in between. The name "Kuroyama Roiyaru" seems unlikely; there is no reference to it anywhere I have looked, and the name "Roiyaru" is not in my Japanese name dictionary. It is, however, an english loanword for "Royal". Therefore there is no reason for this name in the list. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.248.137.132 (talk) 22:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kuroyama Roiyaru?

message: I'd like to discuss the inclusion of the other successor of the seito line, Yoshimoti Kyoshi, in this article.
For more information, please refer to:
*[]
*[]
The reasons are:
*Yoshimoti Kyoshi was chosed by the family of the late Kiyonaga Fumiya as his successor in may 2007. The same happened 30 years ago, when the Kiyonaga family posthumously recognized Imai Massyuke as successor of Kiyonaga Tadanao.
*The japanese budo community has a deep recognition of Gosho Motoharu and Yoshimoti Kyoshi as Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu representatives. They constantly represents the ryu in major events. For example, only this year: Kyoto Taikai, All Japan Naginata Championship and the Miyamoto Yori Taikai in KOKURA. This month Kendo Nippon, the most important publication of Kendo and Kobudo, made an article about Yoshimoti Sensei and the succession of Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.
*Nihon Kobudo Kyokai clearly states that they register only one representative per ryu, but that doen't mean that there aren't other successors. Nihon Kobudo Kyokai recognizes that Imai Massyuke chose to have three successors in 2003. 
*There were a legal action moved by Iwami Toshio requesting the sole possession of the Bokuto of Miyamoto Musashi, today in guard of the Usa city temple and available to the three successors of Imai Massayuke or their successors. The action was denied by Japanese court in July 2007, thus making a legal antecedent against his recognition as sole successor. The court decided that there were other successors with the right to have access to the Bokuto and that the property must continue with the Usa Shrine.
*Gosho Motoharu was the teacher of Imai Massayuke. When Imai Massayuke became soke, he was in the ryu for less than one year. Gosho Motoharu was the responsible for teaching him and the other members of th ryu untill 1988.
*The transmission of Menkyo Kaiden was interrupted in Imai Massayuke.  Imai Massyuke didn't received Menkyo Kaiden in Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu. Gosho Motoharu is the most senior member of the ryu alive who has Menkyo Kaiden, received in 1955. Yoshimoti Kyoshi received Menkyo Kaiden from Gosho Motoharu in 1999. Thus, he is the only successor nowadays who comes from a unbronken line in Menkyo Kaiden transmission.
Given this, and respecting the proposal of Wikipedia to be open and neutral, it should be included Yoshimoti Kyoshi as 12 successor (Junidai) of the Seito Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu (succeeding Kiyonaga Fumiya, daijuichi)  and of Mr. Chin Kin, of Taiwan, as daijuichi.
In the dispute section of this article it could be explained that Iwami Toshio Gensho don't recognize the other as successors and that he is not recognized as soke for the other successors, but as a daijuichi successor.
--NitenBr 17:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Succession

message: Wikipedia is not a discussion forum. As such, the long discussions about what the "truth" and "proper succession" (or any variation thereof) should not occur here. Stick to discussing and reporting what can be verified in independent reliable sources. In the article, attention should be given in proportion to how prominent such claims are in the reputable references. That is to say, if there is a clear majority/mainstream opinion presented in the sources, that should be the primary opinion/set of facts presented in the article. If something is a clear minority view, it should be given a small amount of space in the article. If a particular claim is an extreme minority opinion, only appearing very rarely or only in sources of questionable reliability, then it is likely it shouldn't be discussed at all. If there are any questions as to whether a particular source is reliable, you can always ask at the reliable sources noticeboard. If you still cannot come to an agreement, asking for more outside input and/or informal dispute assistance may be helpful. Vassyana (talk) 23:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Allright. This sounds reasonable. I'll put together the sources available. Fred26 (talk) 11:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third opinion 

message: Except when referring to specific branches or works, the school that Miyamoto created is always called simply "Nitenichi-ryū" (二天一流) in Japanese.  Is there any reason why this article should be named "Hyōhō Niten Ichi-ryū"?  Hyōhō is of course just a generic term meaning "strategy", and it's only used in some branches of Niten Ichi-ryu.  Of course, there is also no compelling reason why it should be "Niten Ichi-ryu" instead of "Niten'ichi-ryu", but that's another question.  If there's no objection I will proceed with renaming to "Niten Ichi-ryū".  o (talk) 01:37, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename to Niten Ichi-ryū 

message: Did you get that joke with that altruistic/talkative Samurai from that movie? If you use the Daikyu to parry, while being fast and strong enough to split, you might actually end up with two opponents.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4DD7:3AC2:0:18C9:E4CB:F40A:315B (talk) 21:31, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bacteria in the War of the Ideologies