Talk:Gladiator (2000 film)/Archive 1

message: Are we sure that Gaius & Gracchus are based on the Gracchi?  They don't really have anything in common, other than being reformers.  The Gracchi didn't work together (their careers were 10 years apart), and they certainly weren't looking to increase the power of the Senate--quite the opposite.  And of course, struggle against the autocracy of monarchy would be completely alien to the Brothers Gracchi.  Watching the film, I rather more got the impression that Gaius was a pretty faceless minor character & Gracchus was lifted pretty directly from the character of the same name in Spartacus, like the gladiatorial motif itself.
In fact, I think the article should acknowledge these fairly major debts it owes to Spartacus, and the larger debt it owes to The Fall of the Roman Empire.
Minor trivia note: Gracchus in Spartacus was played by the actor who had previously played the title role in I, Claudius 25 years earlier.  Gracchus in Gladiator, on the other hand, was played by the actor who had previously played the title role in I, Claudius 25 years earlier.
If no one has any objection, I'll incorporate my changes into the article in 72 hours. Binabik80 04:10, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hearing no objection, I'm going to go ahead and change the article now. Binabik80 01:02, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand your minor trivia note. explain it please Mallerd 22:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaius & Gracchus 

message: The article fails to discuss why the CGI backdrop shown in the article is often criticized. Is it because it is unrealistic in the sense that Rome didn't look like that; or that the CGI was just bad?
:This brings up another point: there is no "critical response" section of the article.  Highly influential film critic Roger Ebert was one of the only powerful people to dislike the film, and in his review he speaks of the murky look of the film.  So it's that the CGI isn't good, in response to your question.  I would agree; it's quite muddy. —qrc 01:06, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticized CGI background 

message: I'm a newbie, so I'm not sure how to rephrase it, but
The quick death of Commodus and the supposed return of republicanism to Rome at the end of the film is entirely fictional, as is the character of the noble senator Gracchus (played by Derek Jacobi) who is apparently to lead the new regime.
and
David Franzoni chose not to note at the end of the film that Rome did not, in fact, become a republic again, because he thought most audiences would already know that.
appear to conflict... according to the film, does Rome become a republic or not?  The trivia entry suggests that in the film, it doesn't - it just isn't explicitly stated because the writer assumed people would "know" - but the earlier sections says that, in showing a return to republicanism, it is historically inaccurate. Tyrhinis 15:13, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really get what you're saying. I think Franzoni meant that in history, Rome didn't become a republic again. What I see is that at the end of the movie, Rome becomes a republic once more, but this is entirely fictional; however, Franzoni neglected to say that this was entirely fictional at the end of the film. Right...--Codenamecuckoo 12:15, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Rome doesn't become a republic at the end of the film; it's open-ended. As fas as I can remember it even ends with a caption saying the republic was never restored. Berry2K 02:37, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No it didn't end with a caption. just saw it today again :) Mallerd 23:12, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: In the opening battle, there are occasions where a Wilhelm scream may have been inserted, including a Roman sergeant (?) calling on archers to loose (timecode 9:09 from title, 1:56 from chapter 2 start). Could someone confirm this please, and then update or give notice to update the page 'List of films using the Wilhelm scream' please? Sentinel75 09:13, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wilhelm Scream? 

message: Just a note - I have removed the quotes section and added a link to the Wikiquotes page for this film. Makes more sense and reduces the length of this (already rather long) article... — QuantumEleven | (talk) 10:39, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes 

message: The following section because it was original research. If this can be sourced, the information should be included in the Influences section. The text is reproduced below for those interested. savidan(talk) (e@) 20:39, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I removed 

message: I changed the link in the first plot paragraph that pointed to "Senate" so that it points to the page "Roman_Senate" instead. Aurelius wanted Maximus to give power back to the Roman senate specifically, not some conceptual senate in general. And since a page exists for the Roman senate, it made a lot more sense to have that specific link point to the Roman page. - Harperska 03:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link change 

message: :Soldiers of the legions are referred to throughout as legionaires, whereas the correct English term is legionary. [emphasis added]
Is this true? After looking up "legionary" and "legionnaire" in both Merriam-Webster's Dictionary and The American Heritage Dictionary, I find they both claim that either word is acceptable in English for describing a soldier in an ancient Roman legion. —Gabbe 21:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If that's true, then the usage in the movie is not wrong, since the movie is in English and not Latin.  Thoughts?  —TheMuuj Talk 21:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  From what I know, the correct word is "legionary." - JNighthawk 03:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legionary / Legionnaire 

message: Did a copy-paste move to the previously redirect page Gladiator (200 film), in light of the recent creation of Gladiator (1992 film)--SweetNeo85 00:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved 

message: I have noticed that the opening battle sequence in Germania is very similar to Julius Caesar's final attack in his great victory at Alesia in Gaul. He bombards the enemy with a shower of arrows, flaming projecticles and other nasties; mounts a classic frontal infantry assault; and at the same time, charges in with cavalry to scatter the enemy and send them into chaos. I saw a dramatization of it on the Discovery Channel and read about it in the Alessia article here and found this an uncanny coincidence. I just thought I'd mention it. -- §HurricaneERIC§ archive 06:37, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical simalarity 

message: It's gotta be the best movies plot synopsis I've read on WP. So many of them go on and on, are essentially scene by scene reconstructions, this was a great summary. Should be noted as an example for other editors in the movie articles. Anchoress 19:48, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kudos on the plot synopsis 

message: Guys I know Wikipedia is an encyclopedia but I really have to say that this is my all time favourite film, the music is enchanting, the battles are bloody, the story line touching, I think this film will go down in history as one of the best films of all time.
Can someone please tell me the language of the strange music sung by the woman, 'Hun na Sharon'
Is it Latin? 
Thank You!S Seagal 01:21, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I couldn't find any lyrics of "Hun na Sharon" online, but the title doesn't sound Latin to me (who has had 5 years of high school Latin). -mrbartjens 00:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Best Film Of All Time 

message: I added some important flaws in the movie that were left out
they are that the Roman legionaries didnt use their javelins in close combat, they threw them and engaged with their short swords. And that the Germans were not filthy and disorganized, they were recognized by the Romans themselves as clean, groomed and moderately organized.  
--Steinfeld7 (talk) 13:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added a few important flaws 

message: In the lead it is written that historians criticized the film for it's historical inaccuracies.  Later in the Trivia section there is mention of how the Romans never used stirrups though they appear in the movie.  Looks like this section almost has to exist.  What are the other historical inaccuracies in Gladiator? -BiancaOfHell 04:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add a Historical Inaccuracies Section 

message: - add more detail on the replica Colosseum.  It was a combo of CGI effects and actual architecture.  Describe in some detail.
- How epic was the entire production?  How does it compare to Ben-hur and other massive productions.  Describe in some detail.
-BiancaOfHell 05:13, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In trivia there is a fact about the area used to shoot the Germania battle scene, and how it's been used hence.  Could be incorporated into Production section.  As well, an overall lead section about comparable Productions would be great.-BiancaOfHell 08:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improve Production Section 

message: No one here speaks German? We have to cite translations now? 72.144.103.202 22:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Google Translate comes up with "You are verfluchte dogs" when translated from german to english.  But how do we know that "Ihr seid verfluchte Hunde." is actually the right German that was spoken in the movie?  It seems good, just that original research is what needs to be cited most.-BiancaOfHell 22:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see. So we do have to cite translations. Good to know. 72.144.103.202 00:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm nitpicking because I want to see this article eventually become a featured article.  It's good enough that the information is there, but now a proof of some sort would help.-BiancaOfHell 15:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Watching the movie is not original research. Don't be intellectually dishonest. (And that from someone who can't translate the words anyway!) 72.144.60.229 09:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Could this be considered reliable? Gladiator screenplay transcript Chickenmonkey 10:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation needed? 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Maximus
This is speculation on my part, as I have no knowledge of the writer's thoughts. Furthermore, Magnus Maximus is not from the correct time periord, but neither was Cincinattus. But keep in mind that Gladiator was a fictional account.
There is some debate amongst researchers as to Magnus Maximus' origin (http://solitaire2.bravehost.com/genealogies/mm_lineage.htm). It is unclear as to if he had a legitimate claim to be emperor. In the Welsh Legend linked in the Wikipedia Article above, (http://freespace.virgin.net/r.cadwalader/macsen.htm)he was already an emperor, but I think more likely a Senator, seeking a bride he dreampt about, his messengers finding her in Brittian. He left Rome and was gone for a long enough period of time that another man was made emperor. He was incensed by this and eventually retook Rome. Outside the legend, he is commonly known as of Spanish birth.
In the Movie, Maxiumus was a Spaniard, and he did have his claim to the Emperorship taken from him, and of course, his name was Maximus. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Linuxcpa (talk • contribs) 19:15, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perhaps Maximus was slightly based upon Roman Emperor Magnus Maximus 

message: I saw a few of the characters in the movie using armor composed partly of chain mail.  My understanding is that chain mail wasn't invented until the Middle Ages.  Is this correct? 24.113.82.222 10:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical accuracy of armor 

message: I'm sorry to have to revert an interesting theory connecting the film to Shakespearean drama.  However, the recently added section comparing this film to Shakespeare read like an essay, lacking external sources to indicate that any creative person was directly inspired by tragedies such as King Lear, or that any published critic drew a parallel between Gladiator and the works of Shakespeare. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zadignose (talk • contribs) 16:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shakespearean influence removed pending verifiable sources 

message: It would be better to add this image to the mainpage. Morris Munroe 09:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: Would any of these sources work for "...and Cincinnatus (the savior of Rome who wished nothing more than to return to his farm).":
*http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,742256,00.html
*http://www.citybeat.com/2001-08-02/letters.shtml
*http://www.gvsu.edu/hauenstein/index.cfm?id=A3254196-F095-6EB3-2B071B51DE02EB8B
*http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22223
If so, the last one could possibly be used for the trivia statement "The lead character Maximus, played by Russell Crowe in the movie Gladiator, was apparently loosely modeled on Cincinnatus." on the Cincinnatus article. --Nehrams2020 08:27, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation tag about Cincinnatus 

message: Recently this text was added: "Maximus appears sluggish and visually impaired during the fight which suggests the stiletto may have been laced with poison."
I admit I don't remember it clearly, but can't the fact that he's sluggish and visually impaired simply indicate that he's been critically wounded?  Is there strong evidence to support the idea that the dagger was poisoned, or that this implication was intentional?  Let's find some support for this idea, or strike it out of the article. It's not necessary to cover every detail of the movie's plot in any case, so we certainly shouldn't include something doubtful.  That he was stabbed and ultimately died is important, whether poison "may have" been involved is unnecessary conjecture. zadignose 06:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, there's no evidence that he was poisoned. Commodus probably stabbed him in a lung which would cause a slow, painful death. Note the way Maximus gasps for air just after it happens. Tommyt 16:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gasping for air doesn't indicate a blow to the lung, it only indicates that he has pain. Besides stabbed in the lung does not cause a slow death like Maximus' especially when fighting. Mallerd 23:06, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poisoned Stiletto? 

message: Both the article on gladius and gladiator indicate that the gladius was used by gladiators (or at least by "some gladiators"), and in fact the name gladiator is derived from the word gladius.  Therefore, I removed the following until this can be definitely established as an "inaccuracy:"
*In the movie, the primary weapon of the gladiator is depicted as the gladius. This is incorrect - only the Roman army was allowed use of the gladius. It is more likely that the gladiators would have used weapons from their homelands (i.e. the fallcuta for Maximus, who is a Spaniard).
zadignose 06:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I searched for a source for it online yesterday and couldn't find anything on it. --Nehrams2020 00:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I doubt that Maximus was considered a Spaniard in the terms of being a true Spaniard. it was 180 AD if I remember correctly, so he probably was a fully assimilated citizen of the Roman empire with no more roots to the original Celtic, Punic inhabitants. Does anyone know where Tuijillo lies? He told him that he lived there, I guess it is more southern Spain as he is found by African slave traders and he never visited Rome. Mallerd 23:09, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of gladius by gladiators 

message: I know this is morbid, but if the article makes mention of the way they are killed, it should be correct. As of now it says they are crucified, but to me it looked more like they are hanged. Should we change this? --Tracerbullet11 14:43, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Commodus later tells Maximus "your son cried like a girl when they nailed him to the cross". Cop 633 16:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Further evidence, when he kisses his wife's feet, the bodies weren't swinging as if they were hanging from nooses (you may remember there was a considerable breeze blowing...). They also may not have used full crosses, but just the crossbars. Bleah, how gruesome! Tommyt 16:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, thanks for clarifying this. So we can leave it like that.--Tracerbullet11 08:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, Maximus mentions to Lucilla (in the prison cell scene) that his wife and son were "burned and crucified while they were still alive".--Valin Kenobi (talk) 23:51, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Were Maximus' wife and son crucified or hanged? 

message: The article states that one of the historic deviations is the calling of him by the name of 'Spaniard' and the article claims that the land was called Iberia. This is incorrect. The Greeks called the land Iberia, while the Romans (Latin) called the area Hispania. --Arithmia 01:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Iberia" 

message: Just wondering if there's any thoughts on a section for DVD and VHS releases, dates and countries as well as special edition - I have a collectors edition VHS with book and soundtrack with additional footage, rare for VHS I would think. Not sure of the details of it but will try and add it soon, otherwise someone else might know about it. Peter 23:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be could, it's interesting to know about the different versions.Cop 633 01:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  home releases 

message: It seems our plot summary is constantly expanding, but I'm not convinced that the added details benefit the article.  Long passages and detailed description of events are not necessary, and may be excessive.  For example this text:
"Upon being introduced to Commodus after a gladiatorial contest, he reveals his true identity to the emperor."
has become this:
"In his first event, he skilfully leads a band of other gladiators to defeat an opposing force of chariots and archers, quickly earning the crowd's praise through his resourcefulness and heroics in the fighting. Upon being introduced to Commodus in the arena after the gladiatorial contest, he reveals his true identity to the stunned emperor, who tries to have Maximus executed on the spot, but the crowd votes for him to live and so Commodus begrudgingly backs down."
and this text:
"Commodus, however, learns of this plot and arrests Maximus on the eve of his coup. Cicero, Hagen and Proximo are killed."
has become this:
"Commodus, however, suspects his sister of betrayal and by indirectly threatening her young son manipulates her into revealing the plot. During Maximus' attempted escape, Commodus' guards attack Proximo's gladiator school, and Hagen and Proximo are killed in the resulting fight, whilst Juba and the survivors are imprisoned. Maximus makes it to the city walls, but Cicero (who was waiting for him with horses) is suddenly killed by archers and Maximus is arrested by the guards."
There was a certain economy of language in the earlier summary, which has been lost, and I'm not sure what we've gained. zadignose 22:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much detail for a summary 

message: After the expansion of the article with the CCOTW, I have also expanded some sections, added some, and included some more inline sources. I will probably nominate this for GAC tomorrow, but I am wondering if there is anything that needs to be fixed before doing so. If I don't get any feedback, then I'll just go ahead and nominate it. If the reviewer puts it on hold, I'll be able to fix any problems relatively quickly. --Nehrams2020 07:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have nominated the article, so we'll see how it goes. Hopefully it doesn't take too long with the backlog. --Nehrams2020 07:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I reviewed it but let's another reviewer do so. This is my opinion.
*1- I found its lead and structure  well. It has also wikified and described the issue well. Let's a native English speaker tell us about its lingual aspects.
*2- I prefer to add some more references in sections which may controversial like Gladiator (2000 film)#historical. Because there is written in the lead "it has criticized by historians" and reader expects to see some of them. However I accept that It seems factually accurate and verifiable.
*3- Of course, it is broad in its coverage.
*4- It follows the neutral point of view policy. I think the neutrality of this issue is not controversial and article shows different POV.
*5- I checked the 100 later changes and found it stable.
*6- There's 7 images which have fair use tag. Although there is written "there isn't any public domain picture" but using too many fair use images doesn't look good even if there are good reasons for fair use. I propose to remove the 2 last pictures. --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 03:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Sounds good, I'll get to fixing these in a couple days (I'm currently going home for Spring Break!). As for the images, this is a similar amount to other GAs and some film FAs. If necessary, I could possibly remove the images of the people in the history section. --Nehrams2020 03:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA nomination 

message: It seems that many of the "Historical Deviations" listed in the article are out of place.  As we all know, the Romans didn't speak modern English, but this is not listed as a "historical deviation" simply because we accept the theatrical conceit that the film is made for modern English speakers, and the language of the audience is used.  So why should it be considered a historical deviation when the German is similarly modernized, or Hispania is modernized as "Spain?"  There is no claim that the actors in the film will speak anything close to the language used by the Romans, and it's reasonable to accept these as part of the nature of a film set in a foreign land in a historical time.
Similarly, it seems wrong to judge the supposed ethnic appearance of the actors.  It's difficult to make a reasonable judgement of what a fictional character "would have looked like."  For one thing, we can't presume ethnic homgeneity in any culture, in any part of the world, at any time.  For another, in theater and film, it has always been common to cast actors to play someone of another culture, period, ethnic group, etc.  Casting Al Pacino to play a Cuban in Scarface, or Eli Wallach to play a Mexican in The Good The Bad And The Ugly wasn't a "historical deviation," but just a part of the theatricality of film.  We don't expect the casting directors to hire only short actors because the average Roman was shorter than the average modern Western man.  We don't demand that they examine Roman statues and only employe actors with a proper "Roman nose."  There's a flexibility in casting, and no claim that the actors precisely resemble historical figures. zadignose 09:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely. I already deleted one passage which complained that Russell Crowe and Richard Harris aren't ethnically Italian. The point about Juba being black when the Numidians were not is borderline, but since 'Numidian' could simply mean 'a person from Numidia' rather than 'an ethnic Numidian', this should probably go too. Cop 633 12:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When Cop 633 was working on the section, I had already deleted the bottom two points, but resulted in an edit conflict with you on that, so I left the bottom one in since you were editing it. So should some of these deviations be removed? There are other inaccuracies that could replace them, or we could already have enough. I don't think we want that section going too long and mention every single inaccuracy. What do you guys think? --Nehrams2020 18:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I think the point about the German language and Spain should definitely go, and Numidia is borderline. I would say remove all three and see if anyone cares. Cop 633 19:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the Spain one is alright as it describes it fairly well, but the German one and Numidia could probably be removed. --Nehrams2020 19:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know for sure, since I don't speak Arabic or any language spoken in the old African Roman provinces. But when they are preparing for the team battle for the first time, you hear a man shout something in a language unknown to me, after that a man shouts swords to the right shields to the left or something like that. Does anyone know what language the first man is speaking? If it's Arabic it could be added, no? Mallerd 23:02, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical Deviations, Language, Ethicity 

message: Agreement with user Sa.Vakilian; well written, broad in coverage, well cited. My main suggestion would be further referencing in the historical section. Otherwise, a definite Good article. Qjuad 15:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Passed 

message: In the Historical Deviations section, it is stated that thumbs up is the sign for death, while having the thumb in the fist was the sign for the gladiator to live. However, the gladiator page says that the thumb gestures are still debated. 
Should the information here be altered to say that it is still debated, or left as is? Raistlin11325 21:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps another sentence can be added that it is still being debated by historians. That way readers are not believed to think that this is the only accepted thought over the hand signal used. --Nehrams2020 22:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emperor's thumb 

message: Doesn't Braveheart qualify as a historical epic?  It was released several years prior to "Gladiator"...
True, but it didn't "kick start" any sort of revival in the way Gladiator did. --Zagrebo 12:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Where does it say that? All I can see if "The film's success may have helped to revive the historical epic genre, with subsequent films such as Troy, Alexander, and Kingdom of Heaven, the last of which was also directed by Scott." please point out where you are reading, oh and don't forget to sign your posts! SGGH speak! 11:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Revival of Historical Epic? 

message: The article says that it is incorrect to say that rome was founded as a republic, but cites the last etruscan king before rome revolted and became self governing.  perhaps it should mention that when the first independant government was formed, it was a republic...
141.154.155.15 01:00, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean the city itself. Maybe Gaius means the empire, or well, back in the days the lands of conquest made by rome. Mallerd 22:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rome founded as a republic 

message: The article refers to Commodus as a sociopath, is this how he is referred to by third parties or is it an authors own opinion? I'm fine with it if it is the former, but the latter is a little suspect because you have to remember the context. Political life in Rome was heavily conflicted; backstabbing, betrayal and double standards were certainly acceptable tactics by the aristocracy to manipulate your enemies, and while Commodus' actions are going too far they weren't unusual enough for him to be called a sociopath, was Brutus a sociopath? He assassinated his role model and possible father Caesar. SGGH speak! 09:29, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sociopath 

message: In the influences article, in the historical paragraph, it is written that during the battle at the beginning of the movie, the catapult were using greek fire to fire fiery projectile even if the greek fire did not exist at this time.
About what we can see in the movie, maybe it was not greek fire, only big jars of oil with something to ignite the oil when the jars break upon impact. Some historical documents tells us that this type of projectile has existed during almost all the Ancient Roman empire. The only thing is that it was rarely used because oil was expensive and this weapon was not that much dangerous for the enemy army even if it as a devastating effect on the moral.Profile98765 18:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek fire and catapult 

message: Did anyone else notice that the chanting of the Germanic barbarians before the battle is exactly the same as that uttered by the Zulus in the 1964 film Zulu, just before they attack? ComaDivine 01:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Got a citation for it though? Alientraveller 08:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zulu 

message: I don't think the Marcus Aurelius - Maximus vs Commodus storyline is so implausible. Marcus Aurelius was the last of "The Five Good Emperors".  The preceeding four had picked their successor, and adopted him, creating a meritocracy to preserve an aristocracy. Some historians consider it the high point of the Roman Empire. Therefore it is not unbelievable that Marcus Aurelius would have done the same.  In addition, Commodus was only 19 when Marcus Aurelius died. Most histories recount that Marcus Aurelius brought up Commodus to be emperor.  This movie takes the next step that Marcus Aurelius found him unqualified/unprepared.  History shows this would have been an accurate prediction. Even though Marcus Aurelius is commonly referred to as a "philosopher king", during his reign the empire was often at war.  He may have wanted a successful general to succeed him.  In short, there is no evidence that Marcus Aurelius decided to dis-inherit his evil, incompetent son, and adopt a popular, successful general to be his successor, but it would have been a decision and action consistent with the predeeding 100 years of Roman history.
In the movie, Commodus is portrayed as an effete aristocrat.  Once he became emperor, Commodus adopted the personification of Hercules, long-haired, bearded, carrying a club, and wearing animal skins.  In short, somewhat like Russell Crowe.
74.243.26.11 02:12, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  some similarities and differences 

message: http://www.nitpickers.com/movies/nitpick.cgi?np=29488
Roma is a feminine deity. Any phrase about her, or the city that she represents, must agree with the singular feminine.
Roma victa is grammatically correct but means "Rome is conquered". Roma victor means "Rome has conquered" but the gender is in disagreement. Roma victrix is correct but clearly not what Maximus said. Roma victoria means "Rome is trumphant" but disagrees in number. There'd have to be more than one Rome to use "victoria" in that way.
If a movie transcription you find online claims the phrase "Roma victa" was said in this scene, it is quite simply wrong. What Maximus said was "Roma victor", which is incorrect but common in English (Results 1 - 100 of about 306,000 for "roma victor").
So please don't make an attempt at changing the Latin in the article unless you know what you're talking about. Kthxbye.
--75.58.74.145 15:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roma victa, Roma victor, Roma victrix, Roma victoria, Roma, Roma, Roma, puke 

message: I am missing information about the spectacular costumes and dress that were used in the movie. Are they historically correct, what about the uniforms, the armor, weapons, etc.? I do know that apparently the fabric used for Lucilla's beautiful dresses and some of the rich women was silk imported from Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh. This should be mentioned somewhere. Gryffindor 02:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The uniforms were historically "accurate" but not historically "correct". The armour used in the movie is called Imperial Gallic and ceased production 50 years before the movies timeframe so it is unlikely so many soldiers would have worn it. This brings up another inaccuracy, all the soldiers were wearing the same style of armour which is a misconception. Romans did not have our concept of obsolescence so their legions would wear mixed armour styles. If it was not worn out the armour worn could be many years out of date. A modern analogy would be the coalition troops in Iraq wearing a mix of WW1, WW2 and modern uniforms.Wayne (talk) 07:43, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  costumes? 

message: Any one heard about Gladiator II ?--Blain Toddi 11:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sequel 

message: Broke his neck ?... slain him with dagger ?...--Blain Toddi (talk) 15:38, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please remember this isn't a forum for general discussion. But as it's Christmas and the season of good will, let us assume it was strangulation. Alientraveller (talk) 16:06, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Suffication Mallerd (talk) 00:24, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  How Commodos killed Marcus Aurelius ? 

message: The article mentions that the first Battle was in fact fought in Pannonia and the movie mentions Germania ...well the last Battle in the Marcomannic war was fought in Laugaricio near modern Trencin/Slovakia against the Quadi in greater Germania ...so the movie is correct about Germania
--Blain Toddi (talk) 10:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pannonia and Germania 

message: Maximus character as a general is not fictional at all ... certainly he was based on the real Roman General Marcus Valerius Maximianus who was the trusted general of Emperor Marcus Aurelius in the last five years of the Marcomannc wars 175-180 AD. Besides he was the Roman general who achieved the decisive victory in Laugaritio/ Slovakia against the Quadi Germanic tribe see Marcomannic Wars .
I hope this charactor would be added to the article historical section .
--Blain Toddi (talk) 09:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've wondered sometimes if Maximus is meant to be a surrogate for Valerius Maximianus, but I don't think we can say anything as definite as "certainly he was based" on Maximianus. The account of the writing of the screenplay given in the article suggests Maximus was originally identified with Narcissus, and also that the writers used largely literary sources such as the Augustan History. Valerius Maximianus, if I remember rightly, leaves little or no trace on the literary record and his career is known from inscriptions etc. Cenedi (talk) 11:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we have any cite indicating if the character was indeed Franzoni's inspiration? Alientraveller (talk) 11:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Do we have any reason for thinking the battle at the beginning of the film is intended to be the battle in Laugaritio? No such location is given in the movie, it's just a 'last battle against the barbarians' deal. I accept the parallels are there, just doubt that the writers' intentions were that detailed and specific. Cenedi (talk) 15:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

text: OK, I've created an entry Marcus Valerius Maximianus. I would still be cautious about asserting he was the model for Maximus. I'd like to think the screenwriters were that clued up, but unless we can produce a statement from them that he was the original for Maximus, we have to leave it as speculation. Cenedi (talk) 18:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Maximus character's movie life and military history is a very close match to that of Tiberius Claudius Pompeianus. It is doubtful he was based on Marcus Valerius Maximianus because there were far fewer similarities than with Pompeianus. In the original script the characters name was Narcissus which was changed for obvious reasons. Wayne (talk) 07:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maximus character 

message: I changed the size of cohorts from 500 men to 480 men ...for more details see Roman legion
--Blain Toddi (talk) 15:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roman cohorts 

message: Removed this line because, in the battle near the start of the film, the legionaries are in fact advancing in cohorts, not a single line.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.19.134 (talk) 14:50, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  ...shown in a line formation;which offered no tactical benefits... 

message: Did anybody else notice that the first gladiator we see in the movie looks just like the guy in the painting? Do you suppose it was deliberate? He's using a different weapon, but it still caught my eye. Ifnkovhg (talk) 00:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not up to us editors to draw comparisons, but the evidence is there if you the reader wish to add it up. Alientraveller (talk) 08:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pollice Verso painting 

message: The plot summary says "Praetorian prefect, Quintus is reinstated as general by Commodus" however I am not sure this is correct.  Isn't Quintus portrayed as a subordinate to Maximus in the regular army prior to the assassination of Marcus Aurelius?  Later we see Quintus in the purple uniform of the Praetorian, but I don't think it was correct that at the beginning of the film he was the Praetorian Prefect. Can anyone confirm this? --PIngp0NG (talk) 15:43, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quintus information correct? 

message: Removed Cicero link. Felt this prudent as the Cicero in the film is fictional and completely unrelated to Marcus Tullius Cicero. (ie different time, different character, different station ect) (78.146.23.36 (talk) 21:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cicero Link 

message: Am I wrong, or was the dog Maximus looked at while kneeling before the opening battle scene a German Shepherd? Those were invented in 1899. It seems like too obvious of a mistake for such a major film. Chicopac (talk) 17:00, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dog out of time? 

message: As you probably know, professor Kathleen Coleman who worked as a historical consultant for the Gladiator, was so frustrated from the final result that she asked her name not to be mentioned in the credits. This is a very important part of the history of the making of the film. For more information on this and for a general discussion on the movie from a scholarly point of view, see | Bryn Mawr Classical Review 2004.07.40 . Btw, that article could be a nice addition to the "Further reading" section but I'm not sure on how to present it there, since it is a review of a book on the film itself Dipa1965 (talk) 19:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coleman's negative experience should be mentioned 

message: In the late Marcomannic Wars , the heavy csualties that legion II Adiutrix suffered in consequence battles ( the same legion that won the last battle of that war in Laugaricio ) , led the Romans to send detachments ( auxillaries ) from legion III Augusta in Africa to enforce that legion ....  May be the Army stationed in Ostia was actually these detachments returning to Africa after the war was over.
--Blain Toddi (talk) 08:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Relevance? Alientraveller (talk) 09:23, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ostia Garrison 

message: Most people believe that the language of the Gladiator theme song by Lisa Gerrard is Latin. However I have also heard that the language used by Lisa Gerrard for this song was one that she had made up herself and used this language only in a spiritual way (praying to God). Does anyone know for sure which language this song is written in? Wikitanoli (talk) 19:03, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Language of the theme song of Gladiator 

message: Gladiator (film) redirects here. Can someone with an automated tool correct the links so that it can redirect to the dab page? (There are three films with articles that are very possibly referred to by this name) 76.66.196.229 (talk) 21:50, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gladiator (film) 

message: I've seen both films and I see very few parallels between them.  I think that line should be removed.
Kryptography (talk) 21:19, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  I don't think Gladiator "borrows heavily" from the Lone Wolf and Cub film Shogun Assassin 

message: According to my history book, Commodus was assassinated by the Praetorian Guards, while dressed as Hercules, he was going to the Senate.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.45.153.62 (talk • contribs) 00:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: bit late but commodus-> incest *eugh* 86.165.13.83 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 19:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commodus' Death 

message: I watched about half of the movie ages ago, but how can you collapse on the graves of crusified bodies? you collapse on the cross? Princess Rebel (talk) 09:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Maximus buried the bodies first. Spongefrog, (talk to me, or else) 20:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collapse 

message: I looked at model of Rome in the Internet made under Mussolini's regime.  Which historical building in Rome near the Coliseum could have accommodated that many soldiers, or was there none (besides the Circus Maximus)?
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2894123&postcount=3
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Darth Sidious (talk • contribs) 03:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccuracy regarding Commodus' Hitleresque arrival 

message: What about a cultural references section? For example, Jon Stewart started the March 2, 2009 episode of The Daily Show with a long reference to the film. 
Achester99  —Preceding undated comment added 04:17, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well spotted. It is mentioned, by Ridley Scott, I think, on one of the DVDs that the chanting is a sample from the film Zulu.Apau98 (talk) 07:33, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add cultural references section 

message: Would it be appropriate to mention the films potential release in blu-ray? link here  Paulish (talk) 17:24, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blu-ray 

message: "Instinct" seems a poor word choice here: "In the arena, the weakened Maximus fights purely on instinct "... this sentence follows the description that Maximus was quickly stabbed with a stiletto, so wouldn't he be finding more on adrenaline? Isn't all fighting "on instinct" otherwise? – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 21:14, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Word choice? 

message: I've added a comment regarding the historical accuracy of the film to the opening comments.  Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the Rome of antiquity will spot historical errors one after the other within the first five minutes.  The film might be entertaining on an artistic level.  Anything else, however, and it's pure garbage, is spoiled entirely in the first five minutes for anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of ancient Rome.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.61.146.194 (talk) 01:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for contributing to the article. In order to include that addition, you will need to include reliable sources stating so. I'd be surprised to call it "pure garbage", but if there were citations that supported that, that could be included. Inaccuracies can be found with many films, but finding sources that state so is the challenging part. Without the sources, the statement raises POV concerns. If you need assistance in contributing, please let me know. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 02:49, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Of course, we should remember it is a dramatisation, not a historical documentary. I think some inaccuracies can be forgiven.Apau98 (talk) 07:31, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: The Maximus Decimus Meridius article seems to be duplicating large chunks, particularly plot, and it seems logical to merge into the main article. Apau98 (talk) 07:28, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Be sure to keep a re-direct for both page names, sending people to the merged article. 98.118.62.140 (talk) 23:04, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I know how it works, thanks. Apau98 (talk) 05:13, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded (thirded?) - this is basically just a restatement of the movie.  --Well-Read Red (talk) 07:10, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: One of the (very few) inline citations for this section of the article makes no such claim; I don't have the book by Landau et al - but no page number is ref'd.   Does the book actually state this, or is this the feeling of the editor?
My problem with this statement is that, while obviously influenced by the movie Fall of the Roman Empire, the film Gladiator has enormous differences with it.  The "hero" of the movie FotRE is not a gladiator, the film Gladiator is totally without the subplot of what the character played by James Mason in the other movie was trying to accomplish, there is no war with 'Persia,' the subplot of the true father of Commodus is missing, etc., etc.
This statement needs to be re-worded to something much less strong.  There should be many other reviews out there that can be utilized to accomplish this.   HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:01, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, so "shot-by-shot" may be too strong; what remake is ever that exact? But in practice, it is a remake; those differences you mention aren't "enormous" at all, and the current text's claim, saying it's just "influenced", is a weasel-wordy whitewash.--CRConrad (talk) 09:41, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  the claim of "shot-by-shot remake" of F.o.t.R.E." - needs adjustment 

message: In the Historical Accuracy section, the following statements:
:Marcus Aurelius died of plague at Vindobona and was not murdered by his son Commodus. 
:The character of Maximus is fictional, although in some respects he resembles the historical 
:figures of Narcissus (the character's name in the first draft of the screenplay and the real killer 
:of Commodus),[32]
come from a private website that is not a Reliable Source - Gladiator, The Real Story - (http://www.exovedate.com/the_real_gladiator_one.html), and should be removed.
Additionally, no one knows what "killed" Marcus Aurelius - whether it was disease, cancer, or any number of possible complications resulting from his long-time opium addiction.  Like Caracalla with Septimius Severus, rumors abounded that Commodus either murdered his father, or at least helped speed his demise after he fell ill. HammerFilmFan (talk) 05:20, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  non-RS used as source, speculative statement 

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thread_title:  File:Now We Are Free.ogg Nominated for speedy Deletion