Talk:Simeon Saxe-Coburg-Gotha

message: The present article page here seems to have a long history. What has happened? a copy-and-paste move, or what? Arrigo 08:31, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've had a go. --SandyDancer 23:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Page moved from Simeon II of Bulgaria

message: I have added an edit that the monarchy was abolished after a Communist coup d'etat (which is an indisputable fact, but which is added for context), and that "allegedly 95.6% in favour of the change". The statistics are from the Wikipedia page on the subject, and the "alleged" is added because it is a reasonable assessment that it was a typically rigged referendum as seen elsewhere at around this time.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.184.56.220 (talk) 10:10, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Republican referendum

message: Shouldn't he have an infobox reflecting that he's an active politician, rather than monarch? --SandyDancer 10:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would want to get rid of the Presidential infobox in that instance actually, but don't feel too strongly about it to be honest. --SandyDancer 14:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Although on the other hand, he was much more of a real ruler when he was a PM. As Tsar he was a little boy who had nothing to do with what was actually going on in the country. Not that it matters so much now; of course, both facts should be mentioned. --91.148.159.4 23:59, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Disgusting's a bit a strong a word isn't it? Make an appropopriate edit if you are concerned, just don't put anything which say he is rather than was a Tsar / King / Monarch. --SandyDancer 09:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's perfect in my opinion. --SandyDancer 10:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: (Up until The Great War, the Bulgarian Emperor was referred to as the "Kaiser" in English.  This was most likely due to the German background of the Bulgarian Imperial House.  Thus, the Allied forces sometimes said that they were fighting "three Kaisers and a Sultan".)
Quite irrlevant here, as he became a tsar long after "The Great War". Also, calling the Bulgarian tsars of the XXth century "emperors" is not really mainstream practice. Apart from that, the info could be suitable for other articles, if sourced. --91.148.159.4 23:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from lead 

message: Since this page has been moved from Simeon II of Bulgaria to its current title, shouln't the same be done with Michael I of Romania?? (see discussion at its talk page). GoodDay 17:55, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No Simeon was subsequently PM, therefore some think he's more famous as PM than as Tsar.  King Michael has had no such subsequent position. --Counter-revolutionary 18:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorta figured on his Prime-Ministership (concerning the page movement), just wanted to be certain. Thanks. GoodDay 18:11, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a problem. --Counter-revolutionary 18:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Page movements

message: I think his bulgarian name should be mentioned; I don't see why it was suppressed. Wedineinheck 20:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's just to do with the English language WP lot.  In the same way they call Emperor Karl (who everyone calls Karl!) Charles.  Odd if you ask me. --Counter-revolutionary 21:27, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this article ought to be called Simeon Sakskoburggotski and I'm all for anglicization. The fact that he adopted his dynastic name as a surname to use a commoner/politician speaks to me that it ought to not be "translated" into English. On Charles/Karl, there is plenty of use for the English form of the name. Charles 22:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Simeon Sakskoburggotski is actually a more bulgarian-sounding name he specifically adopted to further his political career in Bulgaria.  Saxe-Coburg-Gotha sounds too foreign for bulgarians.11:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't matter if it sounds foreign to anyone or not, it's a matter of what is most correct. This case particularly of a surname is much like if someone translated a LeBlanc to White or something like that. It's wrong. Charles 21:59, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

text: This is certainly not true. This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubertus,_Hereditary_Prince_of_Saxe-Coburg_and_Gotha guy calls himself "Hubertus Prinz von Coburg" and is called so in official records (I went to school with him, btw).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.62.199.15 (talk) 13:44, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Simeon Sakskoburggotski

message: It says that he is "the only former monarch in history to return to a position of power through democratic elections. His election victory came after 50 years of exile." What about Norodom Sihanouk of Cambodia? Thanks, Happy138 (talk) 14:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sihanouk was restored and never elected; and in any case, he was returned to symbolic head of state, not head of government. KarlM (talk) 15:49, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

text: The simplification that he is the "only monarch to be democratically elected as head of government" is even more debatable. Consider Prince Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte; and some changes of dynasty have been at least ratified by elections.  Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:45, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Napoleon III was not a former monarch who was elected to national leadership, but a member of a formerly ruling dynasty. Despite the comment above, the best predecessor for Simeon's election is, indeed, that of Norodom Sihanouk who abdicated as king, formed his own political party which proceeded to win the popular national vote, and which then chose to make Sihanouk the Prime Minister -- not the restored King -- of Cambodia. That is often how parliamentary democracies select the leader of government, rather than by direct election. FactStraight (talk) 06:08, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Only former monarch to be elected? 

message: I removed the claim that he is a claimant to the British Throne. See [] to see who is. Happy138 (talk) 21:09, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  British King? 

message: Any word on why he has a German name?  Sca (talk) 19:30, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: if this is really part of his name, it should be used in English and Bulgarian, no? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 15:35, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: German?

message: Hi firstly, Simeon's surname is Wettin not Saxe Coburg und Gotha, that is a Title not a surname secondly there is no von before wettin, just Simeon Wettin, any member of the Ducal House of Saxe Coburg und Gotha, bears the surname of Wettin, that means all members, there is no such surname as " Saxe Coburg und Gotha" please take note, even if so called experts say otherwise, who quite clearly would not know there own surname it seems.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.195.142 (talk) 23:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: German nobility has no surname. Consequently, they are called by their major possession (whether forfeit through revolution does not matter). Our Duke is "Franz von Bayern" (not Wittelsbach) in his very passport issued by the republican government! Hence, Wettin may be the original dynasty name (but dynasty names vary - you could also even here say "Wettin-Ernestine (or Albertine?)" or (yes) Gotha etc.). But his major possession is - first - Bulgaria, and hence his name is "Simeon of Bulgaria". If for some reasons a name other than Bulgaria is wanted - it is quite unsatisfactory to say "Who is King of Bulgaria? Xy of Bulgaria" - then the next possession in line is used which is Duke (in the sense of family-member) of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. --77.4.73.124 (talk) 23:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Surname of Wettin , Not Saxe Coburg und Gotha should be used. 

message: I'm sorry to see this discussion having gone stale since 2010 (a section above) and 2011. It seems plausible that his actual surname in our days - as a very famous Bulgarian polician Simeon Sakskoburggotski - is what the name of this arcticle should be. Surely that must be the most frequent used in reliable sources nowadays? As a person of deposed royalty, his modern surname has certainly never been Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (without of, and in English yet!). That would be like translating Ingrid Bergman into Ingrid Moutainman or Angela Merkel into Angela Borderperson. Why would we translate any modern persons surname into English? Simeon's dynastic membership is "Wettin", but I'm sure it has never been used by him, or published by anyone, as his surname. This man must be known either by his current modern legal name, or by the legal (at that time) historical name and titles he had before he was deposed, Simeon II of Bulgaria. Nothing else makes any sense to me. However, can we just discuss (1) frequency and (2) what this person's legal name actually is, in that order, and not get into arguing all kinds of personal opinions that will never hold up anyway in the land of Wikipedia? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:57, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's look at this again!

message: Now that Simeon is no longer prime minister, we should move the article title back. GoodDay (talk) 01:02, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change back to 'Simeon II of Bulgaria' 

message: For you Americans, it's spelled Tsar NOT Czar, a common mistranslation of the SLAVONIC title Tsar.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiisunbiased (talk • contribs) 20:37, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, many Slavic languages use Latin alphabet either exclusively or alongside Cyrillc alphabet. Being a Slav myself, I have to say that tsar does sound much closer to цар than czar. Of course, my personal opinion (just like personal opinions of other users) are completely irrelevant. We should use whichever spelling is most commonly used in English language literature. Surtsicna (talk) 10:48, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  SPELLED TSAR NOT CZAR 

message: Simeon Borisov Sakskoburggotski (or Simeon Saxe-Coburg-Gotha if we must use the English version) actually accomplished something. H.M. Tsar Simeon II was a child king who lost his throne before he even knew he had one. While his royal rank is fascinating, Simeon II's reign was really the story of his mother and his uncle, Kiril. Simeon himself was just a spectator. The most important parts of Simeon's biography are that he gave up his comfortable life in Spain, returned to a Bulgaria he barely remembered, won election as the prime minister of a republican state, and tried to improve the lot of his people. Lets not lose his actual accomplishments under a mound of romantic language concerning royal rights. Johnwilliammiller (talk) 08:43, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be moved back to Simeon II of Bulgaria as that was the highest position he held. GoodDay (talk) 23:58, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

text: Surely the fact of the matter is that Simeon's status as former child-king was the principal reason he was able to get himself elected prime minister? john k (talk) 07:22, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

text: If the article is to have a "surname", it should not be anglicized. The article should be at Simeon II of Bulgaria or Simeon Sakskoburggotski. Seven Letters 17:13, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've not seen that form used in English. john k (talk) 23:47, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Like any article, this one should be titled with whatever name the subject is most commonly known in English. For references within the article, it appears that most news sources in the recent past have referred to him as "Saxe-Coburg", not as "Simeon".   Will Beback  talk   22:48, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  PLEASE DO NOT MOVE THIS ARTICLE 

message: What is the differance between "Citizenship" and "Nationality" here? 37.144.53.146 (talk) 23:24, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citizenship/Nationality. 

message: What about The Co-princes of Andorra, specifically the French one? I know it's different, but it seems that the current phrasing cannot exclude the co-prince of Andorra. --Ahyangyi (talk) 16:22, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it should say "direct democratic elections". I don't think the Andorrans have any say, really, in who their co-prince is. Seven Letters 01:58, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "the only monarch in history to have become the head of government through democratic elections" 

message: Upon his graduation from Valley Forge, into whose Army was he commissioned a Second Lieutenant?  
He would not have received a US commission as he is not a US Citizen.  Was he given some sort of Bulgarian commission?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.218.131.236 (talk) 05:06, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Second Lieutenant"? 

message: Prince of Tarnovo and not prince of Turnovo, because Tarnovo it's a bulgarian city in the north central part of the country from where the title comes. And Turnovo it's a village in the municipality of Bosilovo in the Republic of Macedonia.GaboPV (talk) 09:50, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Title of Kardam and Boris (and the young Simeon)

message: Please see renewed discussion above re: rather ridiculous name of article, invented by WP. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:02, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Above please!

message: We should have his former position of Tsar of Bulgaria, placed at the top of the infobox. Being 'head of state', was the highest position he had. GoodDay (talk) 14:45, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox (2) 

message: I support the recent move making the article name his name as a legitimate Bulgarian monarch. The WP invention "Saxe-Coburg-Gotha" for an English transtation of his surname (or whatever it's supposed to be) is nothing he has ever used, regardless of any frequency in British media. Ideally, the article should be under his actual legal surname, by which he is widely known in many languages today as a politician, but this move was an acceptable alternative. If we keep translating modern legal surnames to English, because we think that's fun and find some such stuff in Google books, we'll end up with Swedes called Southermount for Söderberg, Germans called Silverstone for Silberstein, etc etc etc etc etc. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 01:11, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent move

message: When he passes on, then can we move the article title back to Simeon II of Bulgaria? Having been king, is the highest office/position he's ever held. GoodDay (talk) 18:54, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article title (again) 

message: All right, let’s walk through this slowly, if we must. Before we begin, Jingiby, let me say I don’t particularly like being accused of disruption. I’m an editor in good standing who’s been here since 2006, I’m sure you know of me, and I expect at least an assumption of good faith, if nothing else.
Having gotten that out of the way: Servare et Manere is basically a one-man organization run by Marek Sobola, who has a penchant for handing out medals, such as the Tree of Peace Memorial Plaque, or planting the Tree of Peace (World War I). Over the past few weeks, I’ve made an effort to ensure that all of Sobola’s spam gets deleted: those red links were blue until recently.
It’s fairly obvious why such spam has no place in this article. A Sobola-run website is not a neutral source when it comes to attesting something about a medal he handed out. Neither is the King’s website quotable for a medal he received. A self-published book by Sobola clearly fails the reliability test.
Have I explained whatever needed explaining? — Biruitorul Talk 18:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thanks. Jingiby (talk) 19:29, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Servare et Manere content