Talk:Provisional Government of Western Thrace

message: There is an article as "Gumuljine Republic". as you see in new article "Turkish Republic of Western Thrace", I transferred all content from  "Gumuljine Republic" article.  (categries, stubs etc. all of them). "Gumuljine Republic" is a dummy/artificial name. A republic wlth this name never took a palce in history. I will take back this merging/discuss remark back with assuming that all of you will ve judicious.
Regards
Mustafa Akalp 17:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: the second link cited in the article under external links doesn't work.. Baristarim 02:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: link

message: Turkish name of the state should be Garbi Trakya Mustakil Hukumeti, It was not called as a republic.--Hattusili 10:37, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkish name 

message: Mustafa, please understand that the original name of this article in Wikipedia was Republic of Gumuljina. Then you create your POV-titled fork Turkish Republic of Western Thrace (which only gets one Google hit, some web forum ). When the article was restored to its original location, you reverted that calling it "Vandal revert" . This is not how articles are renamed; if you want to rename the article, cite your sources first.--Tekleni 10:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Before I get involved here, can somebody give me a translation of "müstakil" in "müstakil hükümeti"? Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Does anyone have any idea how it would have been written in the original Ottoman-Arabic script (the script that was used when the entity actually existed)? I guess it would have been something like گرب تراقيا مستقيل هىقىمىت, but perhaps someone actually in Turkey could find out for sure.--Tekleni 14:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, are we sure that in the Ottoman version it's  Garbi and not Garbı? What about vowel harmony?--Tekleni 14:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: And how come it's not just Batı Trakya Bağımsız Devleti in modern Turkish?--Tekleni 14:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps because the pattern "[point-of-the-compass]+[geographical-unit]+Turk+Cumhuriyeti" just sounds generally nicer? :-P Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Find your friends at :Category:User osm :-) But I think your version doesn't look too right. The "ü"s in "hukumet"/"hükümet" would have been waws, for one thing. And I think vowel harmony didn't apply that strictly in Ottoman, because of the many Persian/Arab loan morphological patterns. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm Greek - a pronounce all "ü"s like all Greeks do ;-) --Tekleni 14:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title restored 

message: *"Garbi Trakya Müstakil Hükümeti"; Ottoman language.
Garbi, Garp->Gar(b)-i; Batı-Turkish, Belong to West/Western-English"" (sorry for first translation)
Trakya; Trakya-Turkish, Thrace-English""
Müstakil; Bağımsız-Turkish, Independent-English""
Hükümet-i; Devlet-Turkish, Government/State-English""
Regards
 Mustafa Akalp 11:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Does anyone have any idea how it would have been written in the original Ottoman-Arabic script (the script that was used when the entity actually existed)? I guess it would have been something like گرب تراقيا مستقيل هىقىمىت, but perhaps someone actually in Turkey could find out for sure.--Tekleni 14:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, are we sure that in the Ottoman version it's  Garbi and not Garbı? What about vowel harmony?--Tekleni 14:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: And how come it's not just Batı Trakya Bağımsız Devleti in modern Turkish?--Tekleni 14:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps because the pattern "[point-of-the-compass]+[geographical-unit]+Turk+Cumhuriyeti" just sounds generally nicer? :-P Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Find your friends at :Category:User osm :-) But I think your version doesn't look too right. The "ü"s in "hukumet"/"hükümet" would have been waws, for one thing. And I think vowel harmony didn't apply that strictly in Ottoman, because of the many Persian/Arab loan morphological patterns. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm Greek - a pronounce all "ü"s like all Greeks do ;-) --Tekleni 14:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation word by word

message: Okay guys, before everybody gets even more upset, can we agree on the following please:
*The history merger between the two articles, as such, was technically necessary. There was no need for discussion about that in itself, simple admin housekeeping.
*Now that the article is properly united in one place, you are all free and at leasure to decide on what the final title is going to be. Please take it easy, leave the status quo as is for the moment, and discuss where you want it.
*No matter under which title it ends up, we will of course have all the alternative appelations mentioned and there will be redirects from them, so that everybody will be able to find it easily from their preferred name.
*I'd like to see something more than google counts - can somebody quote what the actual English-speaking academic literature calls it? Anybody got a few books about the Balkan wars? Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cool down

message: Here is a source for the flag (of the Republic of Gumuljina as they call it) .--Tekleni 14:35, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag 

message: Shouldn't there be a wider variety of references? The only references in this article are a few Turkish books of unknown quality/reliability. There is not one sentence which has a citation. Somebody should add the tag "this article does not cite its references, etc." Kalambaki2 22:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I am struggling to collect more data about the territories that the republic encompassed in order to generate a map. Any old maps and information about the republic's borders and settlements are welcomed. --Chech Explorer (talk) 11:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree on what you say about the borders. I have found a source according to which the republic had Nestos and Maritsa for borders but I am not sure about the northern border. I have also some information about what happened in the region of Nevrokop and how the republic was brought there. --Chech Explorer (talk) 03:09, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

text: How can the borders from 1913 be depicted on a map from 1910? --Chech Explorer (talk) 13:01, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Border details request 

message: I am afraid this "Republic" seems like the result of reverse engineering. I can imagine that a couple of Muslim dignitaries in Gyumyurdjina gathered together to take over after the withdrawal of the Bulgarian troops. It is obvious, however, that they were Ottoman sockpuppets. No good Ottoman Muslim would risk his head by declaring a Republic. Moreover, I don't see any account of the ethnic cleansing that the militias of this entity perpetrated against the ethnic Bulgarians in Western Thrace.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vladko (talk • contribs) 16:47, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original documents needed 

message: *Republic of Gumuljina - 1 hit.
*Provisional Government of Western Thrace - 13 hit.
*Independent Government of Western Thrace - 5 hit.
We must prefer to Provisional Government of Western Thrace as title of this article. Thanks. Takabeg (talk) 13:03, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Republic of Gumuljina ???

message: I find the first paragraph concerning the historical background of the area incorrect.
Concerning the following part: 
:'The territory was created during the Second Balkan War by a joint rebellion of Turks and Pomaks against the withdrawing Bulgarian forces who had recently annexed the region. It survived for 3 months, between two Balkan treaties; between the May 1913 Treaty of London and the August 1913 Treaty of Bucharest that ended the Second Balkan War. It was founded as a provisional state, in order to be annexed by Ottoman Empire again. However, Greek forces occupied major cities (Porto Lagos, Komotini and Alexandroupolis) and handed them over to Bulgaria, according to the terms of the Treaty of Bucharest (1913). '
* The territory was not created during the second balkan war (June 16th - Treaty of Bucharest (Aug 10th)), but afterwards. It was by the treaty that the area was to be handed to Bulgaria and that was the cause of the rebellion. It survived from August 16th until October 30th with the bilateral Treaty of Constantinople (1913). (See, under Pomaks)
* The greek forces had nothing to do with this state, the citation is misleading. In 1913 the area was part of the Ottoman empire. During the second balkan war, the greek forces indeed occupied these areas on July 14th but were forced to hand it to Bulgaria by the treaty of Bucharest. That was the cause that moved the citizens of the area to declare their independence. The greek government did not interfere again in the area, respecting the treaty, and the handling back to Bulgaria of the autonomous region was agreed between Bulgaria and Ottoman Empire by the bilateral Treaty of Constantinople (1913).
* I have also not seen any official sources stating that 'It was founded as a provisional state, in order to be annexed by Ottoman Empire again'
--Japetusgr (talk) 08:31, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  History / Dates 

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thread_title:  External links modified