Wikipedia talk:WikiProject London Transport/Archive 1

message: Rather than putting a second project banner on all London Underground articles, you can use the "Underground" parameter of , like you can now see on Talk:London Underground.  Let me know if you have any questions. Slambo (Speak) 16:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And for those pages that use  instead of , the class parameter will add the article to the appropriate subcategory of :Category:Underground articles by quality and the just added LUL-importance will add the article to the appropriate subcategory of :Category:Underground articles by importance.  If an article is tagged with both templates, then either remove the Underground=yes from  (like you can see on Talk:Tube map, for example) or ensure that LUL-importance is added when an article is rated for importance here. Slambo (Speak) 15:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project banner 

message: Small point here.  You've got both a "members" and a "membership" heading on your project page.  You might want to remove one or the other, or clarify in the text how they are different, as it might confuse people where to sign up.  As a stupid American, I wouldn't be able to contribute to your project meaningfully anyway, but I wish you luck with it.  Badbilltucker 20:15, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Members 

message: 200px|right|thumb|New logo by Lenny.
I think we should have a proper logo for this project, rather than my picture plus text logo. Anyone can submit there entrys. Here is mine.
250px|right|thumb|Slogan by Lenny
:I think the logo is fine as it is. However I have come up with a new slogan for the project and possible for TfL. Lenny 11:37, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its a bit hard to read (the slogan). Simply south 15:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't really like the new logo. The slogan looks good, though --sonicKAI 00:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New logo

message: It's been suggested so far in the project there should be a maximum of 5 headings and 7 sub-headings.
I'd already been juggling some possible headings based on the kind of information presently contained in various station articles, and divided them into the following potential areas and was intending to post them, but now the list violates the newly-added condition of 5 headings.
Here are the proposed headings & subs. Suggestions? Thoughts?
(1) ==History==
History of the station/site.
(1a)===Notable events===(*)
Previous events, eg: 7 July 2005 bombings for Edgware Road, et al; fire at King's Cross, etc.
(2) ==Today==
Include in this section the station's current status and any notable current facilities, features, design elements, etc
(2a)===Services===
First & last train times, trains per hour, etc.
(2b)===Transport connections===
List linking transport services - nearby bus routes, mainline stations, tram/riverboat.etc.
(2c)===Local places of interest===(*)
Sights and attractions located near this station.
(3)==Future developments==(*)
Any _known_ proposals for the station or the site - with references
(4)==Trivia==(*)
Some stations have additional facts or info (see Oakwood tube station for example).
(5)==Gallery==
Gallery of additional images.
(6)==See also==
Associated internal Wiki links.
(7)==References==
Footnote links to support article statements.
Related external links
(*) =  optional heading, where appropriate.
- HTUK 19:55, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In general, I'd support the Past-Present-Future-Extras order that you've got here,  The only thing to watch out for is something that was mentioned to me recently about articles under the scope of WP:NYCS.  Most of the station articles there include "External links" but not "References" because the project convention is to use the "External links" heading instead.  I see this as bad form because "External links" to me means "here are some pages with additional information about this topic" while I see "References" as "these are the sources of the information in this article."  I haven't seen it become a problem on tube articles yet, but this distinction is followed up through the GA and FA process, so it would be best to keep the References and External links separate.  Slambo (Speak) 19:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Stations: standardised headings

message: right|100px
I am thinking of expanding the project to cover all transport sectors of london, one stage at a time. The first sector being London's TucTucs being launched next year. What do you guys think? Lenny 19:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was meaning to still include Underground for the possibility of the other suggestion. Btw, the "chav-rolet" has been recalled following criticisms, at least thats what i saw on a news article. Oh and my answer is see what comes. Simply south 11:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Should we expand the project into other transport sectors of london?

message: Just thought i should note that i have requested a peer review for the Docklands Light Railway. See:
*Wikipedia:Peer review/Docklands Light Railway
*WP:PR/A#Docklands Light Railway
Simply south 22:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  DLR - WP:PR 

message: I was thinking of making a newsletter that will delivered to members by email every month. I was thinking of calling it the metropolitan. What do you guys think? Unisouth 09:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Should we start a project email newsletter?

message: I've added to both of these articles but am unsure of what copyright tag Tube Lines logo comes under. They say here: that anyone can use images as long as Tube Lines are notified, but looking at {logo} classifies it under US law. Or is that ok because its where the servers are hosted?
Logo image available : here and Tube Lines image library here RHB 14:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tube Lines/Metronet

message: Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory.  This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you.  B2T2 23:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your recent correction to the existing directory. I noted that you added your project to the Technology section, and realized I had made a mistake by not linking all of the transportation projects, which are by definition technological, to that section. I have changed the link so that the entire transportation section is now linked to the technology section. I hope that this meets with your approval. Badbilltucker 16:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project directory 

message: :Let passengers off the train first before you get on, as this speeds up your journey.
I was under the impression that this wasn't so much etiquette as the law, unless the legal status is specific to ex-BR.  Chris cheese whine 02:53, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etiquette query 

message: London Underground is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy (Talk) 02:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[London Underground]]

message: I've come up with a tabulated format for the station lists in the main part of the line articles: User:ArtVandelay13/Tube. This shows more information, such as connections, and shows the information in a clearer format. There are a few things to fix - to link the lines, and the years are all wrong, but... any thoughts? I could quite easily convert it into a template if people are keen to use it. ArtVandelay13 23:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but it's appalling. It's ugly and turns the station listing into a sprawling mess. There's absolutely no need to show the connections in Wikipedia. --88.110.235.235 17:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like it, looks like an excel spreadsheet. Don't see a need for all the connections since the information's so easily available elsewhere - anyone that interested in the connections can look at a map. Iridescent 18:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, I have to agree with the above comments. Whilst I like to see as much relevant information as possible in articles, it is not really necessary to indicate each station's connections within the line articles. That information is most appropriately contained in the station articles themselves and already is. The connections are also already shown in the full station list at List of London Underground stations. The list of stations in the line articles should be kept as a simple bulletted list. --DavidCane 02:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed format for Stations section per line 

message: Just thought I would bring these to your attention...
*Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/London Buses route 157
*Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/London Buses route 130
Regan123 09:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AfDs of interest 

message: I've recently found that since the cration of WikiProject London Transport that everyone is out to create their own bus article. None of them are done that well. These articles are:
* London Buses route RV1
* London Buses route T31
* London Buses route 157
* London Buses route 181
* London Buses route 130
* London Buses route 124
* London Buses route T33
* London buses route T32
* London Buses route C1
* London Buses route A10
* London Buses route 410
* London Buses route 312
* London Buses route 328
* London Buses route 202
* London Buses route 197
* London Buses route 196
* London Buses route 194
* London Buses route 28
* London Buses route 185
* London buses route 26
* London Buses route 91
* London Buses route 75
I'll kindly ask that nobody create anymore bus articles until these are cleaned up, or we'll have more up for AfD --sonicKAI 02:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK I'll work through your list, but I do have my own "favourite routes" that are not yet written, that I'd also like to do. Also, there does seem to be a lack of communication between those of us contributing. What especially irritates me are the incorrect "start" dates of the routes. As a first measure I'll work through the list (starting 01/01.2007) giving a correct "First day of operation", if I already haven't done so.
some of my contributions so far are:- 
* London Buses route 17
* London Buses route 22
* London Buses route 31
* London Buses route 36
* London Buses route 38
* London Buses route 39
* London Buses route 42
* London Buses route 43
* London Buses route 63
* London Buses route 106
* London Buses route 107
* London Buses route 108
* London Buses route 236
let me know! But for the time being, I'll take a look at the 157--IsarSteve 10:29, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I came here to say just the same thing. I think we should redirect any particularly stubby ones to List of bus routes in London until such a time they are ready to be written. MRSC • Talk 20:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop creating new ones 

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention.  Badbilltucker 16:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards 

message: Sooner or later someone is going to declare war on the likes of :Image:RV1 blind.PNG and :Image:AldgateEast Nameboard.png. Substituting images for text in a prominent part of the article is probably not a good idea. A number of mirror sites, web readers for the blind, mobile and special web browsers, and people with sight issues will have difficulty with these (for example you can't resize them with the rest of the page text). MRSC • Talk 20:37, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dont forget that the article name is at the top of the page, also mirror sites are not legal. Unisouth 14:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have created the new DiPTAC page which allows visitors and 'staff' to request changes to articles whcih they think need better accessibility. Also urgent items can be posted under what needs to be done. DiPTAC only works for WikiProject London Transport articles but could be expanded if it is supported. Unisouth 19:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Accessibility|Accessibility]]

message: I have gone on a proposed moving spree
*Crossrail --> London Crossrail (see talk:Crossrail#Requested move)
*Custom House station --> Custom House DLR station (See talk:Custom House station#Requested move)
*West Hampstead railway station --> West Hampstead railway stations (see talk:West Hampstead railway station#Requested move 2) - relisted
Simply south 17:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is called Crossrail not London Crossrail. Although people might confuse crossrail for a railroad switch. Unisouth 14:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP:RM spree 

message: All done apart from stations under construction - they have no page. Messsage me on what to do. Thanks Willow177 18:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: DLR links on to do list

message: Do you think a to do list should be created for the DLR article? Simply south 22:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Unisouth 19:22, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: DLR to-do

message: I have put this up for peer review. See Wikipedia:Peer review/London Underground/archive1. Simply south 13:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  London Underground note 

message: I would like members to come together and design a new DiPTAC logo is simular fashion as Esperanza. You can do a letter or a whole logo (one letter must be in paddington or new johnston font). Post your logo or letter in the logo contestants section of the DiPTAC page. It should be in SVG or PNG format. The best 6 letters or 1 logo will be the winner and it will be the logo for DiPTAC. Unisouth 19:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: DiPTAC logo

message: I hate to sound like a grinch, but these keep on cropping up with grand headings like "under construction" where the schemes are barely more than agreed in principle. I think we need to be removing the vast majority of these as they amount to little more than speculation or, in some cases, wishfull thinking. MRSC • Talk 14:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Worse now, "proposed" is appearing too. There have been a load of "Crossrail" boxes added to articles. The chances of it getting funded and happening are so remote I can't see any merit in portraying it in this way. If every proposed transport scheme is added to these boxes, there would be more proposed lines than those in service. MRSC • Talk 18:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with MRSC's comments.  These additions are essentially just naive optimism on the part of the contributors!  --RFBailey 20:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

text: This has also been raised at WT:Rail, where it seems consensus is also againast sticking the Crossrail boxes in.  Adding "proposed" tags does not change the fact that Crossrail won't open for at least a deacde.  Chris cheese whine 20:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Future transport nav boxes

message: I commend you folks for your very thorough work, but I have to ask this question: Is each individual London bus route (or any other city's bus routes, for that matter) notable enough to merit its own article? It seems like a bit of overkill. Could routes be put on group pages, such as "London bus routes (100 series)" or some something similar? I don't mean to question your dedication, and I can see where individual tube or tram lines are worth an article, but maybe I just don't see why each bus route is notable on its own, by WP standards. I wouldn't think of posting an article about each of the four dozen or so individual bus routes in Birmingham, Alabama. Comments? Realkyhick 21:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This discussion was had years ago. Not every single one deserves its own article, that why we created List of bus routes in London. --sonicKAI 11:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Individual bus route articles? 

message: Can't find one in the What Links Here (confessing I stopped at 200 articles), so have linked WP:LT here.  Let me know if I missed one, or if anyone finds it inappropriate.  Chris cheese whine 22:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shortcut 

message: Someone has added West London Tram to the  temlate with a 2008 start date. As far as I was aware, it had not been confirmed that this was going to be built and, if it is, will take four years to construct. Is it appropriate to have this on the template in this manner? Hammersfan 16/03/07, 09.45 GMT
:The source information for the map looked dubious, so I tagged it .  As for the line box, I'd err on the side of it not being there.  It's linked from London Trams, and a few location articles.  Chris cheese whine 10:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: West London Tram

message: Station names in infoboxes should be rendered as text, not an image, for reasons of accessibility.  Particularly since the style used in the image does not appear to match the style used on the Tube.  Any objections to returning what few are there to text?  Chris cheese whine 15:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, but the general rule is that images should be illustrative, by using rounded corners and mixed-case, you effectively created a new format.  The general consensus on Wikipedia at large is that images should fulfill some function - they should be illustrative, and demonstrate appearance, structure or concept.  The sign plates at they stood demonstrated none of these.  In general, we eschwew purely visual styles in favour of clarity, and "" offers no real advantage over "West Ham".  Chris cheese whine 11:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The nameboards are no longer part of the project and thus are not included in the new WP:LT images category. Unisouth 11:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pending no further objections, I'm sending the lot to IfD, given they've got no real value to the encyclopedia other than to make things look good, which (as I have said) is the one thing we don't use images for.  Chris cheese whine 00:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Chris's IfD for the station nameboards failed.  (He also wanted to remove similar nameboards created for the Tyne and Wear Metro).  Therefore as he appeared to be the only person objecting to their use, it is now fine for them to be added back to the station infoboxes.  DrFrench 17:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Station plates 

message: 370 Bus Service --NE2 16:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Route tagged for deletion

message: In a moment of extreme boredom/sadness/dedication (take your pick), I've gone through every entry in Category:Railway stations in London and  tagged everything that currently qualifies as a stub under WP:WSS rules. That should make the ones in most urgent need of expansion easier to find. Since there were only 202 entries in the category, there will be some stations that have slipped through the net, if anyone spots them.
At some point, I'll make a start of expanding some of the sorriest one-line stubs into proper articles or at least expanded stubs, along the lines of what I've done to the three Cromer stations. However, my knowledge of London railways pretty much stops at the river (quite aside from the fact that I won't have time to do that many. -  iridescent (talk to me!) 17:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Stub tagging

message: See my comment on the category talk page — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 16:35, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talk pages appearing in [[:category:London Underground]] 

message: I have created WikiProject buses to manage articles about buses and bus routes, including their history as streetcar lines. --NE2 18:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New WikiProject: buses