Talk:Hank Skinner

message: * This whole article is so biased and unsourced that it should be deleted if it can't be rewritten.
smb2aSmb2a (talk) 21:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: User:Hullaballoo_Wolfowitz recites WP:PRIMARY's warning that "[a]ll interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material" to justify his removal of the following: "Under Rule 13 of the Supreme Court, Skinner has ninety days from that decision to file a petition for a writ of certiorari." In doing so, he fails to heed my admonition to "[r]ead WP:PRIMARY more carefully; it allows descriptive claims resting on primary materials." While Wolfowitz is correct that PRIMARY requires a secondary source for interpretive, analytic, or synthetic claims about primary material, the argument is inapposite because PRIMARY both implicitly and explicitly authorizes the use of primary sources for descriptive claims about that material ("Without a secondary source, a primary source may be used only to make descriptive claims, the accuracy of which is verifiable by a reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge"). Stating that Rule 13 gives Skinner ninety days to appeal, is not interpretive, analytic, or synthetic; it is plainly descriptive. It is also verifiable by any reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge: Rule 13's exact words are, "a petition for a writ of certiorari to review a judgment in any case, civil or criminal, entered by a state court of last resort or a United States court of appeals (including the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces) is timely when it is filed with the Clerk of this Court within 90 days after entry of the judgment." Given the knowledge that Skinner had received an adverse judgment in a US Court of Appeals, it is hard to imagine that any reasonable, educated person could not verify that rule 13 gives him ninety days to appeal. Accordingly, the material is appropriate and Wolfowitz's deletion will be reverted.- Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 16:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You're analyzing the text of the rule and applying it to an individual case. Wikipedia doesn't publish individual editors' legal analyses, whether the issue is easy or hard.  Saying analysis of a supposedly easy case is "descriptive" just doesn't hold water. Besides, determining the date of "entry of a judgment" isn't clearly a matter that can be determined easily by a nonlawyer. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You can certainly advert to the purpose of the rule over the text. We have already seen that the text allows inclusion. Please explain, then, why the purpose of the rule requires exclusion, and how precisely it improves Wikipedia to exclude it. Correction I see what you mean - you're saying that I'm "analyzing" rule 13 (my previous reply took you to mean that I was analyzing the text of WP:PRIMARY). In that case, see my reply immediately below.- Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 17:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: We see that the text doesn't allow inclusion. Besides, two editors, including myself, have objected to it under WP:PRIMARY and generally, so there's no consensus to include it, and a numerical consensus to exclude it.  Unless you can explain why your interpretation of WP:PRIMARY privileges you to include material over the objections of other editors, when you are the sole proponent of its inclusion, you should not keep reinserting your analysis tendentiously. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:12, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You say that two editors have objected to it, but that's erroneous - only you have done so. I suggest that we raise the issue at an appropriate noticeboard to solicit further input. - Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 17:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Morbidthoughts deleted the same material yesterday , citing WP:PRIMARY in his edit summary. I'm not interesting in parsing his edit summary; he objected to the material, I object to the material, and that's enough to demonstrate that two editors objected to the material.  So if anyone needs to "rescind" anything, it's you. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on his edit summary, I had understood Morbidthoughts' objection to be the citaion of Skinner v. Quarterman not Rule 13. If he could clarify the scope of his objection, that would be helpful. It is, however, somewhat ironic that you cite his position in support of yours when you have engaged in a protracted edit war with him and questioned his grasp of policy on your talk page. Lastly, the suggestion that I "need[] to 'rescind'" something is empty rhetoric: You have already reverted my change, so there is nothing for me to "rescind."- Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 18:36, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no irony. Wolfowitz and I do not agree on everything but we have never edit warred with each other, protracted or not. If you are talking about the Meggan Mallone article, another editor had questioned an edit. I had reverted that edit without seeing that another person had already raised the same issue for discussion.  Morbidthoughts (talk) 18:56, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Apologies are in order: I confused you with user:Grifterlake, with whom HW has been editwarring over this article. Sorry, my bad.- Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 19:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Your implicit claim that it is "legal analys[i]s" to recite and/or describe rule 13, by the way, is utterly mystifying.- Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 17:11, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Applying it to Skinner seems like original research prohibited by WP:SYN though. Then again, I don't really object if Rule 13 was recited in general to give context. Morbidthoughts (talk) 17:36, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Hank Skinner

message: Hi, 
I just removed the section "Texas Attorney General's Execution Notice" according to the policy on biographies of living persons: Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Misuse_of_primary_sources
If a secondary source as mentioned in the policy is found the verified parts can be readded. Regards, --Kmw2700 (talk) 13:20, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revmoving Section Texas Attorney General's Execution Notice 

message: Should www.hankskinner.com and www.hankskinner.org be cited in this article?  Should one of them, but not the other?  In what ways do these web sites meet, or not meet, Wikipedia's reliable sources guidelines?  Rather than edit-warring, it would help to establish a consensus.  -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 13:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion of useful sources

message: If you see the 4 external links, we have 1 link to www.hankskinner.org and 3 links to official Texas justice sites, and there is no attempt at hiding information against skinner. 
The skinner.org site has been there for years, it gives all the sources and authors of the documents that it publishes and makes no mystery that it is funded by the Defense Fund of Hank Skinner. 
Now, www.hankskinner.com is a new site trying to counter the growing popularity of the Skinner case. I have no problem with that.  What make it not acceptable in my Wikipedia opinion is that 
1. skinner.com is entirely anonymous, and 
2.is imitating the templates of the skinner.org site 
If there are groups who wants to support the Death penalty of Hank Skinner, they can do it but Wikipedia can requires them of signing their views, and choosing their own design, like every serious publication in the world. --Adumoul (talk) 02:38, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: ===========================================

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on [[Hank Skinner]] 

message: Cyberbot II has detected links on Hank Skinner which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global
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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on [[Hank Skinner]] 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110820004130/http://www.ellis.senate.state.tx.us/pr11/p052011a.htm to http://www.ellis.senate.state.tx.us/pr11/p052011a.htm/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071120020842/http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/offendersondrow.htm to http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/offendersondrow.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 6 external links on Hank Skinner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100531051733/http://www.correctionsone.com/capital-punishment/articles/2026971-Texas-halts-execution-1-hour-before-death to http://www.correctionsone.com/capital-punishment/articles/2026971-Texas-halts-execution-1-hour-before-death/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110827135019/http://www.medillinnocenceproject.org/skinner to http://www.medillinnocenceproject.org/skinner
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100612151155/http://www.connectamarillo.com/news/story.aspx?list=195067&id=461288 to http://www.connectamarillo.com/news/story.aspx?list=195067&id=461288
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121106190559/http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/owenrc/ to http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/owenrc/
*Added archive https://archive.is/20120630105811/prisonmovement.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/hell-hole-news-from-texas-death-row-by-hank-skinner/ to http://prisonmovement.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/hell-hole-news-from-texas-death-row-by-hank-skinner/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110605113926/http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/general/2007/11/2008525173620892283.html to http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/general/2007/11/2008525173620892283.html
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thread_title:  External links modified