Talk:Tension myositis syndrome

message: I flagged this for POV-check because I have concerns as I discussed above but I don't have the info to rewrite it properly now. I also flagged it for sources because it needs more and the existing ones are dubious, also discussed above. I'm hoping for help with this article from other editors. --Howdybob 06:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this article could use at least a citation or example of those arguments of people opposed to it. In the intro it states:
"Sarno's theories and management plan for back pain and other TMS equivalents are not widely accepted by the conventional medical community"
But there is no example or quote in the text. perhaps a section "criticisms" or something like that would help. Trcrev 18:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this topic was arbitrarily flagged for POV back in July 2006, many citations have been added. I therefore removed the POV flag today. Ralphyde 05:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flagged for POV-check & sources

message: I've removed the direct to Amazon book listings as this can be construed as advertising, but to maintain neutrality I've replaced them with link to Dr Samo's own publications list page. This will give people enough information to purchase the books should they wish to. Likewise should Dr Samo want to point his page directly at  the relevant Amazon pages then of course that's his prerogative and beyond the purview of any WP editor. Hopefully this should be a compromise suitable to all editors. --WebHamster 22:08, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved the list to Sarno's page, seems more appropriate there.  References to the actual books should be as references, not EL in my mind.  WLU 22:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. I was treading on eggshells so as not to trigger another sparring match whilst keeping to the rules :) --WebHamster 22:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Books at Amazon

message: Given the controversy surrounding this article, I'm pointing out this spam rather than immediately removing it:
However, late in 2003, the Seligman Medical Institute was established to do just that.Referenced with http://www.smi-mindbodyresearch.org.  This should be removed per WP:SPAM, WP:NPOV, and WP:RS.  This information is promotional, not supported by a reliable source, and needs to be supported by a third-party reference to be presented in a balanced manner. --Ronz 17:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tagged the section with NPOV.  While the last paragraph is the worst, the entire section has sourcing and balance problems.  This is a fringe theory and should be treated as such (if the article is not deleted altogether). --Ronz 22:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

text: The whole topic has been a hot potato lately, but I think things have calmed down a bit (and the concept of "ownership" better understood all around) enough that (I hope) nobody is going to get attacked for trying to clean this mess up - though I still think it's beyond salvaging myself. That said, as "fringe" as the topic may be, it does have some merit in my opinion, and is notable enough to deserve mention - though perhaps not a whole article, and definately not this evangelical mess. :) I would love to be proved wrong however - if somebody managed to get this article into an acceptably neutral and verifiable state, I'll be the first to change my vote on the matter. - Pacula 22:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Seligman SPAM

message: I've removed the link to "Sarno's Treatment" on the grounds that it flagrantly breaches WP:LINKS#Links normally to be avoided #2,#5 and #6 --WebHamster 00:15, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *because you can't link to a specific search. It's relevant for people who want to do their own search on any of the topics within the article. It's a reputable source of reliable info. --WebHamster 16:15, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The first time I looked at it, it came across as a genetic resource.  I see now it's more general than it appeared. PenguinEatingAnApple 16:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

text: The word "genetic" refers to heredity. Did you mean "generic"? David Spector (talk) 22:06, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Spam links

message: I re-wrote the "notable patients" section, adding some more detail and references. It comes across, I think, as a little bit "cheerleading", perhaps reflecting my pro-Sarno personal biases. Nevertheless, I think a sentence or two of "success story" (per celebrity) qualifies as "notable", and if I failed to keep it balanced, feel free to add in whatever I omitted. By the way, I added an (almost) identical section to John E. Sarno (apparently no one famous has been treated for TMS by anyone but Sarno himself), so any big errors in the section ought to be corrected in both places. Thanks, and happy holidays! --Steve (talk) 06:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Notable patients" section 

message: Sarno has apparently renamed the condition from myositis to myoneural and a couple people have suggested changing it.  Until a reliable source can be found stating the two conditions are the same, the page, the lead and the page name shouldn't change.  Paper sources are fine, so if Sarno has published a new book saying he re-named it, that'd be a great addition and we can put both in the lead.  Since the topic is fringy, it'll be twitchy to work this change in or decide to move the page, but let's try for a good source before changing anything.  WLU (talk) Wikipedia's rules(simplified) 16:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dr. Sarno used the term "Tension Myoneural Syndrome" in an interview on WBAL TV to refer to the same condition as tension myoneural syndrome. He said, "By the way, was I specific? I now call it 'Tension Myoneural Syndrome,' and anything that I’m writing now and of course for what we are doing now I want it to be known that it is 'myoneural.'" Of note is that there is some evidence that he has changed the name again and will use "psychophysiological disorder" in his upcoming book (you have to admire his tenacity; he's at least 86). A link to the video as well as additional context (including several links) can be found at the TMS Wiki's page on the name of Tension Myositis Syndrome. Forest4Trees (talk) 02:03, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Per WP:COMMONNAME, I think that the article should still be called Tension myositis syndrome.  This is still the most widely used name in general and is much more widely used in the article's references.  Also, it's not clear that Sarno is going to stick with the newer name (Tension myoneural syndrome), as Forest4Trees wrote above.  I will change the opening sentence to use the myositis version as the main name, with the myoneural version as an alternate name. -- JTSchreiber (talk) 05:16, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tension myoneural syndrome 

message: In the lead section, Rose McGee added the following clarification to the word psychosomatic:  "though the pain is very real and can be very severe".  Her edit comment was "next to psychosomatic-though the pain is very real and can be very severe-this illness isn't all in the mind Dr Sarno states it's not psychosomatic the pain is very real".  
I find this edit problematic and have reverted it.  If other editors think the word psychosomatic is confusing, we could look into rewording the sentence to avoid that word.  Here are the issues I have with Rose McGee's edit:
(1) The edit makes the article text awkward.  Any new clarification should flow better.
(2) The edit seems to violate Wikipedia's policy on neutrality.  This policy says that articles covering minority points of view must not give the appearance that Wikipedia considers them to be true.  Saying that pain is very real implies that Wikipedia considers TMS to be a real condition.  The wording needs to make it clear that TMS is Sarno's opinion, not Wikipedia's.
 
(3) The following statement in the edit comment is false:  "Dr Sarno states it's not psychosomatic".  Actually, Sarno states repeatedly that TMS is psychosomatic.  For example, on pages 3-4 of The Divided Mind, he states that his previous books were mostly focused on "tension myositis syndrome (TMS), a painful psychosomatic disorder".  
I realize that the edit comment does not affect the text of the article, but this still needs to be cleared up before it causes misunderstanding in this talk page discussion.  I think that the problem is a misunderstanding of the word psychosomatic, which means physical symptoms with a psychological cause.  For example, see the Wiktionary definition.  -- JTSchreiber (talk) 06:32, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Psychosomatic