Talk:The Holy Land

message: Is "Holy Land" used only by Christians? Does the equivalent translations get used by Jews, Muslims, Bahais,...? -- Error
why is this artical only about the muslum use of the word?  shouldn't part be on the Chrisian and Jewish uses?  or any other religion that may use the phrase (assuming of course that there are others)?T-rex 18:19, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

message: Is it your claims that Arḍ ul-Quds and al-Quds are the same thing? Jayjg 17:13, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't hear your pronunciation though that white block coming out your mouth. If you mean "Ard". Ard is land. al-Quds is holy and refers to the holy places of Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem. The land of the holy places does not change definition for Muslims even during periods of foreign occupation by Crusaders or Zionists. --Alberuni 17:35, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The article here says that the term for Holy Land is "Arḍ ul-Quds".  The Jerusalem article says that the term for Jerusalem is "al-Quds".  Now, we know that the region of Meccan and Medina is called "Arḍ ul-Quds"; the question is, it Jerusalem ever called that, or is it simply called "al-Quds"? Jayjg 17:39, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't take my word for it. Go ask a Muslim, if you can find one who will talk to you. --Alberuni 17:44, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: So are you saying "yes", Jerusalem is referred to as "Ard ul-Quds"? Jayjg 17:47, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: Actually, that makes sense.  (It's an LDS convention as well, but it's not the sole reason it makes sense to me.) - Gilgamesh 01:11, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: "The word Al-Quds, as mentioned in the authoriative Arab Dictionary, Lisanul-Arab (Arab Tongue) under the stem Quds means glorification of Allah."; why do you say it means "holy"?  And how do you respond to the statement that "Ard al-Quds" refers to "Land of Jerusalem", not "Holy Land"? Do you have any links which translate it this way (aside from Wikipedia based ones)? Jayjg 15:41, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: Thanks, but I'm not sure where this leaves us; would an Arab speaker understand "Ard al Quds" as meaning "land of Jerusalem" or "Holy Land"?  Is there any other way of saying "Holy Land" in Arabic? Interesting about Qodesh, by the way.  Jayjg 16:37, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: In the Qur'an, Holy Land refers to the Levant, the land of Jerusalem where Musa (Moses) led his followers. Non-Muslims seem very intent on excluding Muslims from the Holy land by claiming that "the Muslims holy land is Saudi Arabia, not Palestine". I would estimate that the term "Holy Land" is used today by English-speaking Muslims to refer to Palestine 99% of the time and the Hijaz maybe 1% of the time, for instance, : "The twin cities of Makkah and Medina are in the province of Hijaz. Hijaz, therefore, is the holy land of Islam." Perhaps Muslims are more spiritual and less material than those who think that the Holy Land is more holy to them than others. "Malik related to me from Yahya ibn Said that Abu'd-Darda wrote to Salman al-Farsi, "Come immediately to the holy land." Salman wrote back to him, "Land does not make anyone holy. Man's deeds make him holy." (Muwatta Hadith #37.8.7)  --Alberuni 18:32, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: No, obviously it's our resident fanatic Zionist who wishes to relegate the Muslim Holy land to any place other than the Holy Land that has been occupied by Zionists. --Alberuni 19:10, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: According to Osama bin Ladin, "For more than seven years the United States is occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of its territories, Arabia, plundering its riches, overwhelming its rulers, humiliating its people, threatening its neighbors, and using its bases in the peninsula as a spearhead to fight against the neighboring Islamic peoples."  Many other sources, feel the same way, such as: "To begin with, we say that the hostile, treacherous, and lowly conduct of the Najd and al-Hijaz rulers practically removes the sanctity of the holy land because it was turned into a scene for the infidel Americans and their British allies who use this land as a springboard for the daily attacks on the sincere believers in great Iraq.  "in the Holy Land of Hijaz"  "According to Prophetic tradition, the Arabian Peninsula is sacred territory. Non-Muslims are forbidden to set foot there. The sanctity of this sacred territory has been violated since the emergence of the House of Saud in control of the Haramain... How this monstrosity came to be imposed on such a holy land of Islam is a story that needs to be told in detail."  "the holy land of Hijaz."  "The twin cities of Makkah and Medina are in the province of Hijaz. Hijaz, therefore, is the holy land of Islam." . etc.  These Muslim voices and many others are quite emphatic that the Hijaz is the "Holy Land" of Islam; many other Muslim sources referring to Israel as the Holy Land appear to be following older English convention rather than making a religious claim. Jayjg 19:05, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: The usage doesn't seem "much more rare" to me, perhaps you'd like to look at that. Jayjg 19:07, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ar&#7693; ul-Quds and al-Quds the same thing? 

message: The term is sometimes used when a speaker wishes to use neither "Israel" nor "Palestine" for the region, since either term can be considered as giving a specific religious group (Jews and Muslims, respectively) the right of ownership. - This seems to be WP:OR. It could be [mis]understood in the sense that when someone uses this term, s/he makes a statement.  BTW, is this "ownership" related to real estate, or is it religious or political? ←Humus sapiens ну? 04:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OR? 

message: I have some objections:
First of all, the article describes a lot of historical and little religious significance. For example, whereas Humus Sapiens asked me to back the holiness of the land in Islam with Quran, there is not a single verse from the TOrah or the Talmud, or any other scripture that Jews hold holy. 
Secondly, by mentioning "archeological evidence", is the author trying to prove something??? 
Thirdly, once again, what does the expulsion of Jews, changing the name of the land have to do with this?? Unless, there is clear link made from it to a specific tenet of Judaism, it should not be there.
I like the last two lines.  I think more should be mentioned about Jerusalem, Hebron, the wailing wall, the miracle of Hanukkah, etc..
: I don't see the basis for the "objections" above, let's see what others say. There are some Torah and Tanakh quotes in the article Religious significance of Jerusalem#Jerusalem in Torah and Tanakh. Also, I disagree with alphabetical sectioning. It is against chronological order and seems illogical. ←Humus sapiens ну? 12:00, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed with Humus sapiens. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 17:23, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

text: The Judaism section shows (or provides further references to) the significance of the Holy Land in Judaism, and explains the ties between the Jewish people and the Holy Land throughout the Jewish history. Of course the question: "if it is so holy to Jews, then why many of them live someplace else?" is legitimate, therefore we need to address it. Remember to assume good faith. ←Humus sapiens ну? 02:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I never asked the question of Jews living outside the Holy Land, I'm sorry if that's how you interpreted my comments. I'll assume good faith, provided that the Jewish section doesn't get too agressive, esp. when someone tries to "prove" a religious perspective.
172.166.214.81 19:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is wrong to take this as a some kind of competition. Our job here should not be to check that "the Jewish section doesn't get too agressive" but to present encyclopedic facts. ←Humus sapiens ну? 01:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  objections to the jewish section 

message: This is POV. There are many people/beliefs who have a holy land. Jeroenvrp 15:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to declare this article POV. It's 100% jewish-christian-islamic-centric to claim the title "Holy Land". Jeroenvrp 18:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: this is just bickering, this is not rational, again if no rational is given the tag will have to be removed--T-rex 02:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's 100% rational. You're acussing of me being bickering, that's not rational. Holy lands exists all around the globe, that's a fact. So the article should also mention other religions and start with a general introduction (see Dutch interwiki link) - Jeroenvrp 10:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I just looked at the dutch page, and it isn't as good as this one actually.  and you still havn't given a reason why this is POV --T-rex 18:06, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: I placed Johnny Cash's album the holy land (album) on the disambig. page and I've moved the Holy Land article here redirecting the original article here, for greater clarity, if no one objects. Robocracy 00:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article and its comments moved