Talk:Frank Rizzo

message: This is still very POV and even when it is not, there are a lot of claims that while likely true, cite no sources. A few examples:
* "While heavy-handed and headline grabbing in some of his tactics, Philadelphia did not suffer the same kind of racial violence during the long, hot summers of 1966-1968 that saw Detroit and Los Angeles burn." Dramatic, no context or link to descriptions of racial violence in Detroit or LA in 1966-8, and no source to verify whether this is true.
* "The radical group lived in disgusting and deplorable conditions," etc. for the whole paragraph. Likely true, but no sources
* "One member, Delbert Africa was beaten by frustrated and grieving officers while trying to escape." POV, no quote by any officers claiming frustration or grief, though this is also likely true
* "The Cop Who Would Be King... is widely considered the most authoritative account of Frank Rizzo's rise to power. Sal Paolantonio's book Rizzo: The Last Big Man In Big City America is the current definitive biography..." Contradictory - authoritative and definitive mean the same thing.
*"Philadelphia's nightmare was finally over." Extremely POV
Basically, I have no idea how this has a B on the quality scale. 199.89.180.65 (talk) 15:56, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: This article needs major cleanup

message: POV all over, and terrible grammar.  Cleanup plz?  Kthx. -- RegBarc 21:14, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: I've lived in the Philadelphia area for 40 years, so I have some first-hand idea of Rizzo's record and impact. The rewrite piece is nicely balanced and isn't just a recitation of the negative. He did have a good record on public works, with the Gallery and the rail tunnel built during his tenure. 
I think the issues of his at least appearance of racism, corruption and cronyism, including the "Rizzo Lied" incident are well and fairly covered in the rewrite.
This statement in the existing article makes little sense: "During Rizzo's terms as mayor, construction started on The Gallery shopping mall and the Center City Commuter Tunnel, although Rizzo was not an economic development-oriented mayor." First is a partial list of his achievements, then a declaration that somehow they were an abberation. This is only true if one is intent on writing a piece that is uniformly negative. These projects didn't happen without his support.
There are two points about Rizzo that are often overlooked in general, and might want to be pointed out in the rewrite:
1. He handled basically the exact same MOVE situation as Wilson Goode, with far better results in terms of preventing loss of life and property damage.
2. In the period he was police commissioner and mayor, cities like Chicago, Detroit, and even nearby Wilmington, DE suffered major, widespread riots. Philadelphia's racial and socioeconomic environment was no different than these cities, but did not have significant riots in the same period. One could argue that the presence of a feared authoritarian as a leader prevented civil unrest.
These two things taken together have to draw to a conclusion that Rizzo, whatever his faults in corruption or respect for civil rights, was an effective law enforcer and kept the peace. His real contribution to Philadelphia may be simply that it never burned.Meersman 05:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On point number two concerning riots. I think you have to take into consideration that the Phila. Police Dept., controlled by Rizzo from 1968 till leaving office as mayor, rode roughshod over the black community.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.119.107.106 (talk) 09:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  I would support replacing current article with rewrite 

message: My father was involved in Philadelphia politics during the Rizzo years.  I agree with the last post that Rizzo had many desirable qualities to go along with the corruption that was so endemic to his administration.  The article is not complete without a discussion of MOVE.  Why are the Panthers included but not MOVE?  It seems that is unbalanced as Rizzo was much maligned for his treatment of the former and maybe not enough praised for his handling of the latter -- only one person, a police officer, died in MOVE I.
The article also does not go far enough in showing the enigma that Rizzo was.  For example, as Police Chief he innovated partnering a black and white cop together on patrols, yet he is regarded generally as being racially polarizing.  He was obviously corrupt, yet his administration achieved a great deal.  He even brought horses back to the Philadelphia Police, an innovation emulated elsewhere. Paz9 13:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  There was a reason he became mayor 

message: This shows up in the comments about Rizzo being elected to 1st term as mayor (which happened in 1971):
"Toward the end of the term of Mayor James Tate, Tate publicly announced, ..."
Presumably it refers to the 2nd full term of Tate (which leads up to Rizzo assuming the office), but should be reworded to make this clear.  Tate was mayor for just under 10 years; he moved up from president of city council (when Richardson Dilworth resigned to make unsuccessful run for governor), then was elected to full terms in 1963 and 1967.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 20:38, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  which term of Mayor Tate? 

message: In addition to its other flaws, this article has absolutely nothing about its subject's early life: it begins in the 1940s, when he was in his 20s.  What about his parents, siblings, education?  Did he have other influences or formative events?  Surely, a person as well-known as Frank Rizzo didn't hide all that from the media.  Even I know his brother was fire commissioner.  To omit all these facts makes the author(s) look lazy, or even worse, particularly when the citations include biographies. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 21:02, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early life 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the  has been nominated for deletion from Commons, I have replaced it with a substitute. Woodlot (talk) 20:15, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: There's been some back and forth on this.
"Murder" is a legal term, generally requiring intent. Floyd's death was ruled a "homicide", which merely states that the killing was by another person. The terms are not interchangeable. Murder, assisted suicide, legal execution, death by accident, etc. are all homicides, some may or may not be murder.
Long story short: The target article, Killing of George Floyd is the place to hash this out. The language here should reflect the title of that article. - SummerPhDv2.0 16:45, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Killing/Murder of George Floyd 

message: There's been some back and forth on this one.
Any individual editor's opinion as to whether or not Rizzo was a white supremacist, white nationalist, white separatist, racial realist, ardent racist, casual racist or any other term you would care to use is immaterial. "Evidence" based on what he said or did or what individuals said about him or did because of him is also immaterial.
If independent reliable sources directly state that he was a white supremacist, Wikipedia can and should say he was a white supremacist. If the sources do not say it, Wikipedia should not. If the sources say/do not say he has a cheese sandwich, Wikipedia should say/not say he was a cheese sandwich. That you, John Street or anyone else says he was or was not two pieces of bread with cheese in the middle is immaterial. - SummerPhDv2.0 16:52, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  White supremacist