Wikipedia talk:WikiProject California/Southern California task force/Archive 3

message: The reason that I brought this issue (of tag replacement) to the attention of this Project and other Projects is that I think that what is happening here is really a microcosm, perhaps a test case, of what are good relationships between regional and local WikiProjects.  I'm not sure that a consensus has yet developed in the discussions on this page.  
You may be interested to know that there are some innovative approaches being currently discussed on a more general basis on this WikiProject page about this issue. The members of this Project may find this other discussion useful in assisting their thinking here.  Spamreporter1 07:33, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tag replacement discussion continued 

message: There has been a suggestion that rather than use the "parent/descendant" model to structure the WikiProject California/Southern California relationship, instead use a "project/sub-project" model - as is currently being used at WikiProject Australia and WikiProject India.  The main difference is that while each sub-project has its own project page, talk page, tasks, COTWs, etc., it does not have a separate tag.  If you are interested in seeing if this project/sub-project model might work for California, you are invited to those project pages for your review. Spamreporter1 18:52, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject Australia and India suggested as model 

message: :In reality, subprojects of WikiProject Australia are their own autonomous group with their own sense of community. Sub-projects of WP:AUS generally maintain themselves, however fall under the parent WikiProject Australia for WP:1.0 assessment purposes. Some Australian sub-projects fall outside of the parent project and have decided to assess their own aticles (an example is Wikipedia:WikiProject Football (soccer) in Australia, leading to the situation where a talk page becomes cluttered with many unneccessary templates. We're about to combine assessments for sub-projects into the master  template so that sub-projects need not create their own assessment scheme. The benefit of this is that sub-projects can assess their own articles, and their assessments contribute to provide an overall look at the state of Australia-related articles without fragmenting the results. You may want to look at WP:INDIA which has already adapted what we require. -- Longhair\talk 19:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We're try to change to adapt to editor's needs. Check back often, you never know what we've been up to until you take a look ;) -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Longhair (talk • contribs) 04:00, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Your question to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australia]]

message: :Our response will be similar to the Australian one above. I had initially copied their template and improved upon it.
:1) Sub-projects work autonomously and have their own community. They have seperate project pages and discussion pages. See WP:KERALA.  
:2) COTW still works at the parent level since participation is low. 
:3) All sub-projects use the same project banner. For example,  for an article that falls under the scope of India and Kerala.
:4) The project banner creates assessment categories at individual project level as well as at the parent. Class tag is shared across projects. Since Importance could differ between sub-projects, we have separate importance tags for each project. For example,  will put the article under Top importance for Kerala project and High for the India project.
:5) Sub-projects are identified as workgroups on the talk page banner. For a few of our projects (Indian cinema), banner displays the sub-project in a separate box. For example,  will generate two boxes, one for India and one for Cinema. This way, the sub-project gets more ad-space. See Talk:Aishwarya Rai. This is needed for topical projects that loosely integrate into the national project. Indian cinema has both India and Films as parents. 
:6) The parent project's menu bar is displayed on all sub-project pages. This will give visibility and help invite more participants into various sub-projects. In topical projects such as Indian cinema, the menu bar is trimmed down to a small box. The menu bar displays assessment statistics table of the project currently displayed. See WP:KERALA and WP:INCINE.
:7) The automation department at the parent level supports all sub-projects. They help with automated talk page tagging.
:This type of integration avoids redundancy and helps sub-projects concentrate on the article improvement than worry about templates and technical stuff.
:Hope that helps. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 03:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Your question to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject India]] 

message: To try to follow all discussions on this issue, you have to look at the talk pages for at least four different WikiProjects (California, SoCal, CITIES, and COUNCIL), as well as the talk page for Wikipedia:WikiProject, because the sockpuppet  Spamreporter1 has been copying different comments to the different pages without telling the different WikiProjects or the authors of those comments, and without identifying where the different comments came from. BlankVerse 14:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The views of each of those Projects was solicited because each is affected by the topic.  I have requested that any responses be condensed, and have assisted that process.  People are going to respond where they want, and I'm trying to avoid disputes over where the conversation is going to take place, by performing the clerical act of copying responses.  If anyone has a suggestion of a single place that all interested parties are comfortable watching and responding there, that would be a good solution. Spamreporter1 22:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Note

message: I have to wonder if some of the extreme hostility and incivility that has been part of this discussion on this project's talk page, and some other project's talk pages is the result of some editors assuming that the SoCal WikiProject has been 'undoing' some editor's hard work. In reality, the tagging of almost all the article talk pages (on over 10,000 articles!) with the  banner was done by a Bot, User:MetsBot. At the time, the bot's owner received quite a few complaints, and because of that quit doing any bot-tagging for WikiProjects. It really wasn't the bot's fault, but the fact that that some articles had been miscategorized (such as a couple of Oregon cities that probably some waggish vandal had categorized as California cities). BlankVerse 14:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: All done by a bot

message: In an effort to keep the conversation condensed, the following suggestion was copied from here:
::There is another option currently employed by WP:GER & its subprojects. Integrated tagging. The subproject is on a switch of the main banner. Agathoclea 08:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Another option suggested

message: As noted above, the above WP Cal/WP SoCal conversation is really a microcosm of a larger discussion about the best roles for WikiProjects in Wikipedia.  There started out only a modest number of WPs, and there are now a large number of WPs, and more being created every day.  
It makes sense to me to pause and think about a sensible Wikipedia-wide assessment of what is the best relationship between larger-scale and more local-scale WPs.  The WP Cal/WP SoCal conversation is only one example of a number of such conversations going on around Wikipedia.
There is an interesting discussion taking place now at WikiProject Council (a central discussion point for conversations like this).  A draft policy has been proposed there and is being discussed about what are "best practices" regarding the relationships between larger-scale and more local-scale projects.  
If you are interested, you are welcome to offer your thoughts and observations.  Spamreporter1 15:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Important Inter-WikiProject discussion going on at WikiProject Council