Talk:Alan Hovhaness

message: I see it’s been a long time since anyone’s been here, but I’m wondering if there’s a reason why his death isn’t noted.  It goes right from his work to “survived by.”  I can research but  curious if there’s background.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pbackstrom (talk • contribs) 18:43, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

message: I saw him in 1983 in Seattle - some flutist was performing one of his works on a glass flute (a curious instrument not often seen), and he came out to talk a bit about that flute and its quality of sound. Stan 00:15, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: A personal note

message: I think the last bit, with his quote about the older generation ruling the younger is not NPOV. The quote can be preserved, but the text above it needs some modification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.248.199.211 (talk) 02:09, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Last bit not NPOV

message: While a recording of Hovhaness's first symphony was being played, Copland talked loudly in Spanish to the Latin American composers in the room, and when the recording finished, Bernstein went to the piano, played a melodic minor scale, and remarked, "I can't stand this cheap ghetto music."
I don't get this story. What is the significance of Copland's speaking in Spanish? Was he speaking to the Latin American composers in the room about the Hovhaness music being played? Was he saying something negative about it? I don't know what a melodic minor scale might be, but how does it relate to Hovhaness or what they'd just heard by him? Did the comment about cheap ghetto music refer to Hovhanesses music? - Electric Larry — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.61.9 (talk) 06:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We know this story from Hovhaness's many retellings of it. Following the playing of the record, Bernstein (despite his own Russian Jewish heritage) apparently caricatured Hovhaness's music by imitating it on the piano, playing a stereotypically "Eastern" scale--though Hovhaness was careful to point out that Bernstein had gotten the scale wrong. Copland's speaking loudly was bothersome to Hovhaness because the introduction of the symphony is very quiet and he felt that he wasn't getting a fair hearing because Copland was talking straight through it and drowning the music out. I don't believe anyone knows what he was saying in Spanish; it might have been related to what was being heard, or not. Whatever the case, Hovhaness felt that his yakking was disrespectful and prevented others from appreciating (or even hearing) his music. Badagnani 06:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ? 

message: We've been observing an odd kind of "WIKI-battle" which seemed to have started up when we added several external links and one new film/video listing.  Our new materials were re-edited to the bottom of the list, and new external links added to push our links even further down.  It seemed a curious thing, so we tried an "undo" only to find that this triggered a ping-pong match with the individual wishing to push his information to the top.
That's not the purpose of Wikipedia-to be "first".  All the links, etc., are good, interesting, and informative and it just doesn't matter who gets "top ranking."
There is an nice story of a little old lady driving her car, and meeting up. bumper-to-bumper, with a huge lorry right at the crest of a narrow, one-lane bridge.  The burly lorry driver rolls down his window, yells out "I don't back up for idiots."  The little lady replies "That's OK, I do," and shifts into reverse.
+++++++++++++++++++++  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.249.153.20 (talk) 14:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External links wiki-battle

message: Ok, can we just cut to the chase? Can everybody just state for the record what there agenda is for either including ethnicity in the lead sentence or not including it? My agenda is stated on my user page. Thanks --Tom 00:28, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Our intentions aren't what matters. What matters is the quality of articles and their compliance with Wikipedia policy. Don't keep making unsupported assertions or the agendas of other editors will get pushed and yours won't. Please quote a policy and explain how you feel that applies to this situation. Hyacinth (talk) 00:31, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take that as a no. Next. Also, thanks for moving this section here, nice.--Tom 00:35, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

text: The composer's output, from his very first works, is strongly Armenian in its outlook and style. He called himself "an Armenian composer" and is claimed by the nation of Armenia, who are building a museum for him. His interest in the pipe organ, sacred music, and fugal counterpoint comes from his Scottish Calvinist maternal ancestry. This is known to musicologists and scholars of American music. Thus, his heritage is central to his output, in a manner that may be different from other American composers such as Walter Piston or Paul Creston, both of whose families had changed their names from their Italian birth surnames (Pistone and Guttoveggio), and did not highlight their Italian heritage in their compositions. In this context, we can see that such hard-and-fast rules (and "enforcers" who are not knowledgeable in the subjects of the articles in which they take it upon themselves to blank text, without taking into account the discussion of longtime, expert editors in that field) can create a serious problem. Badagnani (talk) 00:34, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The refusal to follow policy also causes serious problems. Hyacinth (talk) 00:38, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Maybe you could both set out the policy in question, as you take it to mean, respectively. Badagnani (talk) 00:39, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

text: What I see there is, "Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." In the case of Hovhaness, it's indisputable that his Armenian-ness is central to the totality of his output and style (and, hence, his notability). For someone like Eric Bogosian, not so much. Badagnani (talk) 00:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. What you are required to do then is demonstrate that relevance, which, as an "expert", should have been amazingly easy for you to do. See Wikipedia:Verifiability. Hyacinth (talk) 00:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

text: The "snide quotation marks" were really unnecessary and un-Wikipedian, but I'd say that the relevance was already found throughout the article's text. You did a great job, though. Badagnani (talk) 00:59, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome. Hyacinth (talk) 01:05, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the help. Fortunately this issue has already been resolved. Hyacinth (talk) 02:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Cut to the chase

message: Is this appropriate in the lead? TIA --Tom 15:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly; there is a museum being constructed in Yerevan dedicated to this composer, one of only two in that nation dedicated to a composer of Armenian heritage (the other being the Aram Khachaturian museum). Though Hovhaness visited Armenia only once, in the 1960s, he is claimed as an Armenian by Armenians in Armenia, and always said of himself, "I am an Armenian composer." The Armenian script can help Armenians to search for him in their own language, just the way putting Hindi for Ravi Shankar or Urdu for Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan would do. Badagnani (talk) 20:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a common practice, is there a guideline I should be aware of? VartanM (talk) 20:57, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure; some overseas Armenians don't speak any Armenian, yet Armenians might want to search for them in their own alphabet (like people like Atom Egoyan, who are well known in Armenia, for his Armenian-themed films like Calendar and Ararat). I don't think it would be appropriate for someone like Eric Bogosian or George Deukmejian, for example (in this case, if an article exists about them in the Armenian Wikipedia, one could find the Armenian script for these names in the interwiki for those Armenian Wikipedia articles). I'm not sure about a guideline for use of local script, but it has been discussed, such as here. Badagnani (talk) 21:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Armenian script

message: This unnecessary edit creates a strange rhythm to the text (in the breaking of two sentences that read perfectly well into two that don't read well together), and is, in fact incorrect (he is not living, the inclusion of the word "is" is inaccurate). Badagnani (talk) 00:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Inaccurate edit: ethnicity and tense

message: I've given this article a B assessment for the Composers project.  There's a lot of good work here, but I think the article barely qualifies according to the project assessment guidelines in spite of it.
A few comments:
*The biography is good, but there is no mention of the circumstances (when, where, why) of his death (only who survived him).
*There should be a complete list of published works somewhere (probably in a separate article, given the number).  If the given list is already complete, the heading should be changed.
*There is no significant critical analysis of his work as a composer or musician (from musicological sources). See Wikipedia:WikiProject Composers#Article structure.
*The article uses inconsistent citation styles (seen in the lead), and needs more inline citations.
*There are numerous other prose and style issues (WP:MOS,WP:LEAD).  I'm guessing a fair amount of contribution has come from non-native English speakers.  The article really could use copyediting.
*The article could use more images and audio media, if available, for an article of this length.  (Images of places important to him, influential figures in his life, etc.)
If you have questions or comments about my comments, please let me know on my talk page. Magic♪piano 14:28, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Shall we move this to Talk:Alan Hovhaness/Comments? --Kleinzach 14:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I'll eventually redo it using the review template. Magic♪piano 00:08, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. I assume you know how to make a comments page then. --Kleinzach 02:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Composer project assessment

message: I first reviewed this article about 6 months ago, when I first started reviewing composer articles.  I've done a more extensive review of the article, which is on the comments page.  I highly recommend Messrs Berkofsky and Badagnani (or whoever is operating the two Hovhaness-named accounts editing the article) read it; the article needs a lot of work.  In some areas (for example, providing more and better pictures), they may be uniquely suited to improving the article; I assume the Hovhaness Centre is in possession of photos that could be used here, under appropriate release. Magic♪piano 16:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Composer project review

message: Can someone having an access to The Boston Globe's archive check if the unreferenced quote in the header is from the following article:
Richard Buell, Sinfo Nova remembers Hovhaness,    February 2, 1987
--Sins We Can't Absolve (talk) 19:40, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This looks promising, thanks. However, using the ProQuest database access to pre-1997 Boston Globe articles turns up nothing by searching this title or this author. Even browsing the 2 February 1987 issue, I find 82 documents listed alphabetically by title, but this one is not found (it ought to be between SECOND LOOK DANIEL SHAYS' REBELLION by Richard Higgins, and SNIPING ATTACKS STOP, BUT TASK FORCE KEEPS WORKING by Associated Press. A visual search of all 82 article titles also comes up blank. Perhaps ProQuest's access is not exhaustive.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:54, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Header's quote 

message: "Interviews with Alan Hovhaness" includes an interview on PACIFICA Radio, KPFA. Hyacinth (talk) 06:53, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: Jerome Kohl- [07:34, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Whom are you addressing, Hyacinth? If you are referring to my recent adjustment to the footnote formats, are you taking credit for the many inconsistencies that were there? Or are you referring to something else?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 07:09, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry. Since I didn't say I created those inconsistencies I'm not taking credit for them. However, I did reduce them, and you complained. Hyacinth (talk) 07:34, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I did? Remind me of what I said. All I remember doing was (1) trying to make a full-length bibliographical footnote consistent with the (slightly) predominant author-date forms found in other footnotes, and then (2) when you insisted on the full-citation format, accepting your decision and trying to make the other refs conform to your preference.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 19:16, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Consistency

message: Richard Howard, Hovhaness Interview: Seattle 1983, private.
Why does the above source need its credibility verified? Hyacinth (talk) 08:39, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: My mistake. I saw the legend "private" and assumed that meant "unpublished". Since there is a link (which I did not notice, in my blindness), it obviously has been published. I think the citation could make this clearer, though, by replacing "private" with "The Alan Hovhaness Website", and giving the publication year of 2005, as shown on that site. I'll correct this, since it was my mess.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Verify credibility

message: Substituted at 07:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: It seems to me that the Armenian script currently used in the English-language article for Alan Hovhaness' surname is wrong.
It gives his surname as: Յովհաննէս.
However, if you switch to the Armenian Wikipedia article for Alan Hovhaness (https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ալան_Հովհաննես), you see that there they use: Հովհաննես. This spelling is also used in the Armenian page's URL, and in quite a few web sources (e.g.: https://armtorrent.com/viewtopic.php?t=657)
I'm not an Armenian, and really don't know much about the Armenian language except for being familiar with the Armenian script for odd work-related reasons. Therefore, I prefer to bring this up for discussion and hope to attract comment or edit by a real Armenian speaker. Sir Orfeo (talk) 10:02, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Armenian script for surname is wrong