Talk:The Green Room (film)

message: This article was automatically  assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 08:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: Just wondering if there should be anything added or perhaps divided up/made more clear in regards to the relationship between Truffaut and the film? Perhaps something about his career at the time or his auteur style? Inoubliable folie (talk) 13:08, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Truffaut himself 

message: A new film has recently been released with a very similar title to Truffaut's: Green Room, which is the first to appear in many searches even with "The" attached to the beginning. This article's title could therefore do with a little more specificity relating to the director and the year of release, to avoid ambiguity of the page one will be clicking on.
A PGoss (talk) 17:53, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi! I am one of your online volonteers for your education course, and I do belive that this edit which added a hatnote about this is not supposed to be confused with Green Room (film) is enough and that further disabiguation is done at Green room (disambiguation). Don't hesitate to contact me if you need any help with Wikipedia.(t) Josve05a (c) 01:18, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Specificity in the article's title as a Truffaut film 

message: Whilst the sources from Insdorf etc are useful, the small number of bibliography entries could be increased. A broader image of the film and Truffaut could be explored with more, various references.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by A PGoss (talk • contribs) 18:06, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of scholarly sources 

message: I read a review of this film saying that those who are unfamiliar with Truffaut prior to watching will find it only a negative film experience: https://letterboxd.com/fredrikfyhr/film/the-green-room/. I thought therefore it could be brought up how the themes of the film reflect those previously exhibited in Truffaut's films, ie his consistency as a director over time.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by A PGoss (talk • contribs) 18:42, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with citing this particular review is that it appears to be  self-published, which puts it beneath the threshold for what constitutes an acceptable Wikipedia reference.  Check out WP:SOURCES, and more broadly, WP:V to get an idea of what is considered a "reliable source". Of course you could still pursue the theme; you just need better references to cite. Barte (talk) 05:42, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

text: A belated thanks Barte, we've taken this into consideration! Inoubliable folie (talk) 23:15, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Continuation of themes 

message: The article mentions the various people involved in the creation of the film. Truffaut asked Jean Gruault to work on the script, Nestor Almendros to be the cinematographer, and used the music of Maurice Jaubert for the score. It would be interesting to deepen the question regarding his collaboration with these artists, as collaboration is a characteristic of auteurism and would allow us to get a broader knowledge on Truffaut as an auteur. Has Truffaut worked with them before? How did he come to work with them? Why was their work more effective for this film than the one of Truffaut's previous collaborators? Chfuga (talk) 09:25, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  An Auteur with Collaborators 

message: It could be interesting to see how the other filmmakers from the French New Wave or belonging to the avant-garde filmmaking perceived the film.Chfuga (talk) 12:17, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reception from peer filmmakers 

message: I like the idea that RunFellow (talk) put forward in the archived version of this talk page:
It's completely optional, but you may want to think about a "Themes" section in here, since that's clearly an important aspect of the article. Wikipedia:Peer review/The Green Room (film)/archive1
In which a discussion surrounding 'Themes' could be interesting. Truffaut has mentioned 'death' especially in Bergan's Francois Truffaut: Interviews (Conversations with Filmmakers) and there is a clear Truffaut style in the film itself.
Inoubliable folie (talk) 22:37, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Themes (again) 

message: In a television appearance to promote the film, Truffaut showed two clips from the film that had nothing to do with the dead. Truffaut was extremely upset by the film's financial failure and referred to it as "The Empty Room".
This quote in the article lacks of references. Though, I have found its source in a letter that Truffaut sent to Jean Dasté on the 11th of April 1978; we should add it to the article in order to make it more precise.
It is in French: Comme vous le savez, 'La Chambre Verte' a bonne réputation, mais du point de vue des distributeurs de salles, le vrai titre serait : 'La Chambre Videin Truffaut, F., de Givray, C., Adair, G. and Godard, J.-L. (1990) Correspondence, 1945-1984. Edited by Gilles Jacob and Claude De Givary. New York: Farrar Straus & Giroux, p. 539
Are we allowed to translate it to English?  Puricostanza (talk) 18:22, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Guidance for handling foreign language quotations within the article here.  Guidance for handling within a reference here Barte (talk) 07:02, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improving References 

message: Because of the personal nature of the film and the character of Julien Davenne, Truffaut decided to play the part, stating that "this film is like a handwritten letter. If you write by hand, the letter won't be perfect, the handwriting might be a bit shaky, but it will be you, your handwriting." 
This quote is referenced in the article but I am quite sure that, translating literally  from French, it is incorrect. The original statement Truffaut made is: Il m'a semblé que, si je jouais le role [de Julien Davenne], j'obtiendrais la même différence que lorsque, faisant mon courrier au bureau, je dicte certaines lettres qui sont tapées à la machine, et que j'en écris d'autres à la main Insdorf, A., Joliet, B., Coleman, Y. and Insdorf, A. (1989) François Truffaut: Le cinéma est-il magique?. Paris: Éditions Ramsay, p. 281 
Charlotte, I'm sure you're better than me at translating from French to English so I await your version of the quote in English. Thanks. Puricostanza (talk) 18:54, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improving References II 

message: We know that Truffaut adapted Henry James' novel The Autel of the Dead for the screen. According to the article, Truffaut recommended that Gruault read James's "The Beast in the Jungle" and "The Way It Came", which were also incorporated into the film. Truffaut also wanted to change the setting of the original story to 1920s France with World War I as a major factor in the plot. 
It would be more precise to recall Truffaut's own words about this decision of changing the temporal dimension of the story: J'ai choisi de transporter les thèmes d'Henry James en 1928, parce-que je les voulais directement in liaison avec le souvenir de la Première Guerre Mondiale. L'idée de massacre, de millions de morts, n'est pas évoquée avec autant de force par la dernière guerre. [...] il fallait établir un contraste très vif entre les scènes de la vie quotidienne et celles de la chapelle Truffaut, F. and Gillain, A. (1988) Le cinéma selon François Truffaut. Paris: Flammarion, p. 371)  - I've decided to transport James's themes in 1928 in order to create a direct connection between the latter and WW1's memory. The last war doesn't embody the idea of massacre and millions of dead as intensely. [...] I wanted to establish a vivid contrast between everyday-life scenes and the chapel scenes.
All information can be found in Truffaut, F. and Gillain, A. (1988) Le cinéma selon François Truffaut. Paris: Flammarion, p. 371. 
Puricostanza (talk) 22:04, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Henry James's novel adaptation 

message: In the chapel scene, among the many photographs of Truffaut's dead friends, Julien Davenne comments on the one framing Henry James (the author of the novels that inspired the film) saying that he has taught him the importance of respecting the dead (il lui a appris l'importance du respect pour les morts). Insdorf, A., Joliet, B., Coleman, Y. and Insdorf, A. (1989) François Truffaut: Le cinéma est-il magique?. Paris: Éditions Ramsay, p. 285
The article did not mention James's photograph among Truffaut's friends, so we should add this detail even because, through Davenne, Truffaut is implicitly explaining why he chose to adapt James's novels for the screen. 
Puricostanza (talk) 13:09, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Henry James's novels 

message: The article's Music Section could be improved. For example, we should note that with La Chambre Verte Truffaut uses Jaubert's music for the fourth time in his films.
Although the article reports Davenne's comment on Jaubert's music  (Davenne says that "I realized that his music, full of clarity and sunlight, was the best to accompany the memory of all these dead."[15]), it doesn't make clear when the character states this. We should therefore note that Jaubert himself appears among the photographs of Truffaut's dead friends Insdorf, A., Joliet, B., Coleman, Y. and Insdorf, A. (1989) François Truffaut: Le cinéma est-il magique?. Paris: Éditions Ramsay, p. 285 (this is not mentioned in the article) and Davenne makes his statement in the chapel scene.
Puricostanza (talk) 13:24, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music Section Improvement 

message: Since autobiography is one of the main characteristics of Truffaut's auteurism, perhaps when reorganising the article we should include a section about this theme. 
The article already includes some interesting information about how Davenne and Truffaut can be identified, but it all appears quite confusing and hard to link together.
I think that the section should focus on: -Truffaut himself playing Davenne's role
-Truffaut's dead friends photographs in the chapel
-any other suggestions?
Puricostanza (talk) 13:36, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autobiography 

message: Hey this is just a call to see if there any French editors that have any primary French sources on The Green Room that may seem helpful to the article and would perhaps be willing to translate? Thanks! Inoubliable folie (talk) 20:53, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anyone from the French cinema task force? 

message: I have tried to translate a few quotes we have found to support our editing of the page. Would anyone be able to double-check the accuracy of the translation?
Here is a few quotes from Mouren's 'Etudes Cinématographiques':
'Cette decision n’est pas simplement prise parce que Truffaut incarne le personage, mais parce que l’obsession de Davenne, ce qu’il fait tout le long du film, ce qui le définit, à savoir, garder la mémoire des morts, refuser l’oubli, rejoint en un sens, l’activité du cineaste.’ 
In English I translated it like this: ' 'This decision is not simply taken because Truffaut embodies the character, but because Davenne’s obsession, what he does throughout the whole film, what defines him, that is, keeping the memory of the dead alive, refusing to forget them, links in a way to the activity of the director. 
‘J'ai choisi de transporter les thèmes d'Henry James en 1928, parce-que je les voulais directement en liaison avec le souvenir de la Première Guerre Mondiale. L'idée de massacre, de millions de morts, n'est pas évoquée avec autant de force par la dernière guerre. [...] il fallait établir un contraste très vif entre les scènes de la vie quotidienne et celles de la chapelle.’
In English I translated it like this: 'I chose to adapt Henry James’ 1928 themes because I wanted to link them directly with the memory of the First World War. The idea of massacre, milions of deaths, is not evoked with as effectively by the last war. A strong contrast had to be established between the scenes of everyday life and the ones of the chapel.'
‘Ce n’est pas le culte de la mort. C’est effectivement une extension de l’amour des gens qu’on a connus et qui ne sont plus, et l’idée qu’ils ont une permanence. Je n’adhère pas complètement au personage, et il m’arriv de le critique. C’est un demi-fou, avec une idée fixe, mais ce qui importe c’est qu’il refuse l’oubli. Pour moi, c’est important ce refus.’
In English I translated it like this: It is not the worshipping of death. It is indeed an extension of the love for the people that we used to know and who are no longer alive, and the idea that they are still with us, in a way. I do not completely agree with the character, and I find myself criticising him. He is half-crazy, with a fixed idea, but what matters is that he refuses to forget. This refusal is fundamental.
‘[About Massigny’s character] Il symbolise tout ce qui nous empêche de dormir, sur quoi se concentre toute notre aggréssivité.’
In English I translated it like this: He symbolises everything that prevents us from sleeping, on which all our aggressiveness is focused. ''
Enfin je crois à l’émotion retenue, à l’émotion non par paroxysme mais par accumulation.Je voudrais que l’on regarde la chambre verte  la bouche ouverte, qu’on aille d’étonnement en étonnement, et que l’émotion ne nous étreigne qu’à la fin, grâce au seul lyrisme de la musique de Jaubert. J’ai essayé de dérouler un fil sans le casser et d’obtenir une ligne, la plus pure possible.’
In English I translated it like this: At last, I believe in the withheld emotion, in the emotion by accumulation and not by paroxysm. I would like The Green Romm to be looked at with open mouth, going from astonishment to astonishment and be embraced by the emotion only in the end, solely thanks to the lyrism of Jaubert’s music. I tried to unroll a wire without breaking it and obtain the purest line possible.
La Chambre Verte est construite comme une comédie musicale qui ne danse et qui ne chante pas. (…) C’est un film antihollywoodien en ce sens qu’à Hollywood, on travaille avec une grande générosité narrative. Il est plus résolument Européen parce qu’il repose sur l’idée classique de faire quelque chose avec presque rien, avec des petites choses qu’on doit amplifier pour les amener à la hauteur de l’évènement.’
In English I translated it like this: The Green Room is constructed like a musical that does not dance nor sings. It is an anti-hollywood film, meaning that Hollywood works with a very generous narrative. It is more European because it follows the classical idea of making something with almost nothing, with small things that have to be amplified in order to be elevated to the importance of the event.
:You can also paraphrase. In an encyclopedia article, especially, lucidity is a virtue.  Barte (talk) 01:00, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation from French sources 

message: From F. Truffaut, J.L. Godard et G. de Givray’s ‘Correspondance (1945-1984)’, (1988):
‘Comme vous le savez, La Chambre Verte a bonne reputation, mais du point de vue des distributeurs de salles, le vrai titre serait: La Chambre Vide!’
In English I translated it like this: As you know, The Green Room has a good reputation, but from the distributors’ side the real title would be: The Empty Room!
From A. Insdorf’s ‘Le Cinéma est-it Magique?’:
‘Malgré l’émotion pesante de la Chambre Verte, le style de la mise-en-scène de Truffaut est d’une légèreté et d’une simplicité qui rendent le film moins lugubre.’
In English I translated it like this: Despite the heavy emotion of the Green Room, the lightness and simplicity of the style of Truffaut’s mise-en-scène render the film less dreary.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chfuga (talk • contribs) 11:26, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation (continued) 

message: I would like to add a few lines about Massigny as he is one of the main characters of the film and he is almost ignored in the article.
From Anne Gillain (ed.) Le Cinéma selon François Truffaut, p. 374: Sans lui [Paul Massigny], il n'y aurait pas eu de film, car celui-ci aurait été trop statique. La Chambre Verte est un conte. Massigny en est le vilain.  (Truffaut's own words)
Without Massigny there would be no film because it would be too static. The Green Room is a tale, and Massigny is his antihero. Puricostanza (talk) 10:44, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul Massigny  

message: Anne Gillain has translated some of Truffaut's quotes from the book Le Cinéma salon François Truffaut herself in the book François Truffaut: The Lost Secret. 
I) I believe in restrained emotion, in emotion generated not by a paroxysm, but by accumulation. I would like people to watch The Green Room with their jaws dropped, moving from one astonishing moment to the next, and that emotion grips us only at the end, only on account of the lyricism of Jaubert's music
We should use this translation of the quote, referencing it properly. 
Gillain, A. and Fox, A. (2013) François Truffaut: The lost secret. Bloomington, IL: Indiana University Press, p. 265.
    Puricostanza (talk) 11:58, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation from French Sources, I 

message: As part of the team editing this page with QMUL, I have investigated the bibliography entry by Baecque and Toubiana, and found that many references to the book are indirect, being that the book itself refers to other articles and documents on the pages that are referenced. I have put these articles in the bibliography as "Unknown" for now, but I cannot find any details about their authors or page numbers etc. If anyone has more access to and is able to locate more information on these articles it would be very helpful.
161.23.239.138 (talk) 11:38, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unknown Articles