Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Norse mythology)/Archive 3

message: ===Support===
This poll is over. Please express your thoughts outside the framework of a vote.
#Support. This is a workable and satisfactory compromise which will ensure that all representations of the names are accessible in the articles and that common English names like Thor and Odin are used where they exist. The guideline is explicitly based on and fully compliant with Use English. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 18:55, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Old poll

message: This poll is over. Please express your thoughts outside the framework of a vote.
#Support. This is a workable and satisfactory compromise which will ensure that all representations of the names are accessible in the articles and that common English names like Thor and Odin are used where they exist. The guideline is explicitly based on and fully compliant with Use English. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 18:55, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: This poll is over. Please express your thoughts outside the framework of a vote.
#I strongly object to calling this policy. It contradicts existing policy, and the concerns of those who think we should keep that policy of naming things in the English alphabet on the English Wikipedia are still being ignored here. - CDThieme 01:07, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose

message: This poll is over. Please express your thoughts outside the framework of a vote.
#Neutral Because somewhat opposed to the assertion that alternate English spellings, even when in common general use, mean that the Old Norse name must be used.  (In particular the wording "When one particular Anglicized form for a name is overwhelmingly most common" and "no particular Anglicized form can be said to be in common use in everyday English".) Further comments in discussion below. --Tabor 14:10, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutral

message: This evil poll is over but please feel free to express your opinion.
#Don't vote on issues that obviously haven't been settled. Any suggestion that has this little support is a compromise in name only. Hell, if it was a proper compromise it wouldn't have to be voted on in the first place. / Peter Isotalo 14:14, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:m:polls are evil|Polls are evil]]

message: I wish to comment on the standard of "When one particular Anglicized form for a name is overwhelmingly most common and well known".  This has in the past been applied to mean that if there are alternate spellings in English, even when two or more variants are quite common in English, that this means the Old Norse form need be used.  I tend to disagree with this.  Consider a related example: a city in Belgium, that is in English commonly referred to as Bruges or Brugge.  I would not take the fact that there are two forms in English as a strong reason to put the article at the Old Norse form Bryggje, the source of the city's name.  I tend to see names from mythology in the same way.  The fact that there may be more than one spelling in general use in English is not in itself cause to place an entry in the Old Norse orthography. --Tabor 13:56, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A reasonable opinion, to be sure. Importantly the Old Norse word is never used for the city nowadays whereas the Old Norse forms of mythology names are used in English scholarship and sometimes elsewhere. I personally like the idea of using the original form when there is no common Anglicized form or when there is no dominant English form. For example the old Anglicized form Balder, the original Old Norse Baldr and the modern Icelandic form Baldur are all widely used in English (see Talk:Balder for some Google games). In that case I preferred to use the Old Norse name. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 14:08, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This idea is fundamentally flawed... The existence of more than one English spelling shows that the old archaic Icelandic version is not the most commonly supported... What you are trying to argue is that since the names sometimes vary that we should use the version you want. You can;t make up the rules like that, it's insane. We need to pick the most common English-language version, per Wikipedia naming convenetions and COMMON SENSE. The fact that you come from Iceland and prefer your old versions does not mean you get to overrule the entire English language. The entire concept of what you are trying to do goes completely against everything this encyclopedia stands for. DreamGuy 18:03, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: DreamGuy, your words are quite hostile in tone and form. Insinuations and accusations are inappropriate conduct here. Haukur Þorgeirsson's personal preferences as well as his national origin are not relevant to this discussion, and you references to such are rather close to ad hominem attacks. As for "making up rules"- of course he is. That is the entire nature of this debate: developing conventions used to edit articles. Any rule governing the organisation and/or formatting of information is an artificial construct, and Haukur is trying to propose one that might make editing easier. He can and will make up rules just like every other human being does. Whether those rules have any validity outside of one person's life or perceptions is what is being discussed here. If the proposal fails, fine. We will make a different one that has a broader base of consensus. The proposal is not necessarily what Haukur wants. It is a rough compromise between the standard scholarly conventions used for Old West Norse/Old Icelandic spellings in modern works and concessions made to make relevant articles more accessible to uneducated users of Wikipedia. P.MacUidhir (t) (c)  22:06, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Competing Anglicizations

message: Just don't muck with Loki.  I know you are not planning to, but in any case he's one guy not to muck with any way you look at it. He also, by the way - or someone with his name - piloted a TWA Lockheed  with me aboard in a terrible snowstorm, Dec 1959, (they had bumped about half the passengers off to reduce take-off weight in Philadelphia.) I didn't mess with Loki, and he took us on a safe trip, with co-pilot Copher and stewardesses (as they were called in 1959) Dolan and Teboe. Carrionluggage 01:20, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I don't plan on mucking with him - in fact I added a nice illustration of him holding his net on his article. The standardized Old Norse spelling of the name is "Loki" and that's the most common English rendering too. Some old English works use "Loke" but you don't see that a lot nowadays. Glad you made it through the storm :) - Haukur Þorgeirsson 01:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's not muck with Loki