Talk:Seal hunting

message: The article has been protected due to an ongoing edit war. The involved editors are requested to solve the issues through discussion. Please note that the protection is not an endorsement of the current version. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war 

message: ...Perhaps my intentions of adding to this section are being misunderstood. I keep adding text to the section to reflect that regardless of the fact that rifles are indeed used 90% of the time to initiate the killing process that doesn't mean that they those incidents are devoid of the use of either hakapik or club.  According the EFSA Q-2007-118 section 4.2.2.1. there are cases (3 out of 8 in some cases) where the rifle was not effective in rendering the seal either dead or irreversibly unconscious. The study goes on to point out, in the same section, that a club or hakapik was used to finalize the killing process.  This is not an attempt to, as some have pointed out, bring elements of the "Cruelty to Animals" section into the "Equipment and Methods" section.  I'm simply pointing out what the EFSA explains, saying 90% of the hunters use rifles does not exclude different elements of Equipment and/or methods from being used in the same incidents. Just saying 90% of hunters use rifles can and is being misinterpreted to mean 90% of the seals are killed by rifle fire. Not true. The section needs modifying and anyone wishing to contribute to this needs to step forward now and make recommendation instead of simply deleting my text. 
The following is my recommendation: "the hunt occurs, use firearms.[27] ...This does not exclude the use of other sanctioned tools like clubs or hakapiks from being used on seals where rifles were not effective in rendering the seal either dead or where the seal regained consciousness...Both rifles and hakapiks are..."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by XB70Valyrie (talk • contribs) 23:35, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. Seeing how quickly people delete my additions to the article, but yet have no response to my discussion, I'm adding the text a week after I posted the discussion. 
--XB70Valyrie (talk) 03:07, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Perhaps people aren't reading your discussion points because THEY'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TALK PAGE, eh wot? There is lots already in the controversy section and very little of it has more than one reference. It already addresses everything talked about. Rework it, if you want, but stop adding to it.99.245.37.46 (talk) 00:13, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  You make no point. This "method" of clubbing seals after they are shot if they are still alive is just that "A method" this has nothing to do with cruelty to animals. It's a "method" involving "equipment".  As I said above, "Just saying 90% of hunters use rifles can and is being misinterpreted to mean 90% of the seals are killed by rifle fire." The data exists antiseptically outside of the realm of "cruelty to animals" and should be handled as such.--XB70Valyrie (talk) 01:06, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please join the discussion at the bottom (current) area of the talk page. What you think people are "misinterpreting" is irrelevant. The statement is pretty clear, and is EXACTLY what is stated in the reference, despite what data you claim exists.99.245.37.46 (talk) 01:09, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See the "GDP" section. --XB70Valyrie (talk) 02:41, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition to Equipment and Method Section 

message: I've been doing some organizational work in :Category:Whaling and suggest creating a parallel category :Category:Sealing or :Category:Seal hunting.  This hopefully non-controversial edit would permit all sealing-related articles to be grouped together, with the cat itself being put into the parent cats currently used for the main article.  There are at least a handful of applicable articles, and it would help keep the structure parallel.  Hopefully this concentration would help both sides of the argument, as well as neutral parties, access information more effectively. MatthewVanitas (talk) 22:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Went ahead and created :Category:Sealing and sub-cat :Category:Sealing ships.  If there are any sealing-related articles I missed, please add them to the cat. MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Creation of "Seal hunting" or "Sealing" category 

message: "After molting, the seals are called beaters, named for the way they beat the water with their flippers. [9] 
The practice remains highly controversial, attracting significant media coverage and protests each year.[10]" 
Suggest the second sentance be clarified or moved as it sounds like the controversial act is the way the seals beat the water with their flippers. 82.46.49.45 (talk) 10:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Odd ordering of sentances 

message: I've protected the page due to edit warring. Please seek consensus on this talk page rather than reverting the article back and forth.   Will Beback  talk   22:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Protected

message: There are many reverts on this page. I am reminding everyone that edit warring (see WP:EW) is not permitted. Any editor caught edit warring, or violating the three revert rule (WP:3RR), may be blocked. Please seek a consensus here on this talk page first, and seek some form of dispute resolution (WP:DR) if needed. Gabbe (talk) 08:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Blocks have been earned, but they won't foster consensus. I've protected the page instead and will extend the protection as necessary until there is a consensus over the disputed issues. While protection is in place editors should use whichever dispute resolution steps seem appropriate.   Will Beback  talk   18:59, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: If there are any edits which have a consensus than the best procedure would be for the active editors to post their agreement and then place an {editprotected} tag. Then an admin can make the edit. Since the last article descended back into edit warring soon after it was last unprotected, I suggest that premature unprotection should be avoided. Have other dispute resolution steps been taken? Has anyone posted to the relevant noticeboard or started an RfC?   Will Beback  talk   01:50, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edit warring 

message: Seal Hunt Not an Exclusive Proud History to Newfoundlander's and Lab's.....  I was reading excerpts from the book "Of Seals and Men: A History of the Newfoundland Seal Hunt" by James E. Candow, 1989.  In this book it is shown that in the early to mid 20th century Norwegian vessels and landed seals outnumbered Newfoundland's in the hunting grounds of "The Front". This seems to go against the argument that the seal hunt is "a proud, unadulterated Newfoundland tradition", or at least warrants an addition to the NL history section. I have a question. Does one have to be able to find the exact text from the book on-line in order to cite it as a reference in the wiki-article, or is the title, author and date of publication enough to use it as a ref.? --XB70Valyrie (talk) 09:20, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Norwegian Connection to NL Sealing

message: How can you justify doing this? It's WRONG and you should say so. You're barbaric.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.150.72.175 (talk) 22:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: You people are evil and pathetic

message: a portion of the article is worded "One high-end fashion designer, Donatella Versace, has begun to use seal pelts, while others, such as Calvin Klein, Stella McCartney, Tommy Hilfiger, and Ralph Lauren, refrain from using any kind of fur.[33][34]" in all likelyhood many more designers use seal fur and many more designers do not use seal fur. I think this should read "controversially high end fashion designer Donatella Versace recently began using seal pelts in some of her lines." and if you want you can have a second sentence stating that "A considerable number of fashion designers including X,Y,Z designers are critical of the use of fur." Geranimals doesn't use fur either, but that is just useless filler too! --216.67.26.149 (talk) 09:43, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  This doesn't make sense, why are we listing designers who refuse to use fur? 

message: They forgot the country USofA.Native people that live in the "North Slope" Alaska hunt seal year round.Barroweskimo (talk) 22:17, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  five countries???should be six 

message: Nothing in Protests or Celebrities regarding protests of Traditional Inuit people hunting seals.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lowellt (talk • contribs) 20:10, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nothing in Protests or Celebrities 

message: Protests: 
[...] Costco stated that politics played no role in their decision to remove the capsules, and on April 4 that year, they were again being sold in Costco stores.[113]
The law was approved by the Council of the European Union without debate on July 27, 2009.[114] Denmark, Romania, and Austria abstained.[115] [...]
Which law? Doesn't say anything about it... seems to be something missing. -Kloth (talk) 16:15, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  What Law? 

message: As it stands, the entry states that seal hunting takes place in five countries.
Further down it mentions that there is a seal hunt in Alaska.
If we assume that Alaska is still part of the US, it means that seal hunting is
also happening in the USA.
Regardless of the bickering, assertions on the page as it stands contradict each other.--66.183.177.97 (talk) 03:35, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alaska Seal Hunt 

message: It seems as if the population numbers may be out of date and the references listed do not appear to link to sources giving the numbers quoted in this page.
These quotes appear to cite Canadian DFO numbers but if you see http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/seal-phoque/myth-eng.htm , the DFO Government of Canada website quotes the number of Northwest Atlantic harp seals as an estimated 9 Million NOT 5.8 Million.  This appears to be a large discrepancy.  Maybe this is an error on the DFO website, but it seems problematic that the references in this page all seem to link to old news paper articles and other out of date information.  An updated number seems to be required.  -27.33.48.252 (talk) 07:28, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current Population Numbers 

message: Would someone experienced and capable please edit the section and add Jackie Evancho as a seal advocate with the following reference from her website. http://www.jackieevancho.com/content/mission-humane. It looks to me as a novice like I am unable to add this change myself. If that is not true please educate me? Thanks... Wildlatin (talk) 17:33, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Celebrity Involvement - Jackie Evancho 

message: I've just added a section regarding the impact of the EU ban and similar protests on the Inuit in Canada. I have some experience in the topic, so if you'd like to see more/clarify what I've written/etc., feel free to ask. I feel like the section I added had no bias and isn't going to fuel another flame war.
Wil.h.adams (talk) 17:22, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inuit and the seal hunt 

message: Its just sad to hear that baby seal are killed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.124.86.105 (talk) 01:45, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sealing 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: It might be off-topic, and I doubt this article would ever undergo any considerable change, but is the word "kill" neutral in the context of seal hunting? Aren't other words such as "cull" or "slaughter" more appropriate? Shouldn't "kill" be reserved for homicide (even though it's a stretch)? Because "kill rates" in the Seal hunting#Ecological feasibility section sounds a bit ridiculous.--Adûnâi (talk) 02:39, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm of the same opinion. While there might be situations where this word could be used, the way the article uses "kill" (41 times, "hunt": 155 times, "cull": 14 times) probably violates WP:NPOV. Compare e.g. with Reindeer where "kill" is not used at all, and "hunt" is used 15 times (References and out-of-context occurrences not included). For the record, I'm also against the word "harvest" (18 times in this article) which is on the other end of the activism activity. Cheers, Pgallert (talk) 16:01, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I spend a lot of time editing animal welfare related articles and this question comes up often.  My own take on it is that we should not try to sanitise articles.  If a process involves killing an animal, let's tell people that.  The killing may be done to reduce numbers, in which case the term "cull" would be appropriate, but we should still not shy away from using the word "kill" if this is what happened (culling can simply mean removal".  "Harvest" again can be used; it usually means gathering, but if it involves killing, let's tell people that. DrChrissy (talk) 20:54, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  For the most part "kill" is the appropriate and neutral word to use in this article. The term "harvest" refers usually to gathering fruits and vegetables, as in harvest festival. In the context of the article it would be a sanitizing word, a coy way of trying to distance the reader from what is actually occurring (which is the killing of seals). "Cull" could be an appropriate term if a legitimate cull took place, a cull based on scientific understanding, motivated by conservation or health considerations. It is not the correct word to use when the motive is pleasure or monetary profit. "Hunt" is an appropriate term in historical contexts when there were real hunters, such as the inuit who hunted seals with skill and spears, risking their lives  so their families could survive. The term may still be appropriate in some contexts, but is not really appropriate when high technology is used to locate seals for commercial gain or pleasure. Technology has taken most danger and skill out of hunting, so the main event is just the kill rather than the hunt. The recent ascendancy of religious fundamentalism may result in requests that we use terms like "passed away", "gone to a better place", or "resting in the arms of an angel". --Epipelagic (talk) 02:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the word "kill" neutral in the context of seal hunting? 

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