Talk:Rutgers University/Archive 1

message: The following is the first archive of the discussion page regarding the article entitled Rutgers University. Archive 2 will began when we approach or just exceed 100 sections. 
# Archived sections 1 to 30 on 15 August 2006. —ExplorerCDT 23:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

message: How many times does this article have to say that the school was chartered as Queen's College in 1766?  Or that the institution was affiliated with the Dutch Reformed Church?  Once is enough.  It's not necessary to include those facts both in the introduction and in the history section. Darkcore 19:28, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redundancy? 

message: The song that is listed as the Fight Song is actually the Fight Chant, which comes in the middle of the actual song.  The Fight Song is a song called "The Bells Must Ring."  Lyrics can be found here: The Bells Must Ring.  Also, because Rutgers is in the Big East conference, it is rare that they ever play Princeton or Cloumbia in any major sport. Kevcowiffle 20:50, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fight song/athletics 

message: I noticed the lyrics "On the banks of the old Raritan, my boys, 
where old Rutgers ever more shall stand, 
For has she not stood since the time of the flood, 
On the banks of the old Raritan", which has piqued my curiosity. I thought for some time that the word "flood" might refer to some historical flood (after all, Hurricane Floyd caused a pretty big Raritan flood that reached up to Johnson and Johnson property, and the Tavern of the Red Lion was on what is now J and J turf), but I mulled the term a bit more, and thought that the word might refer, instead, to the biblical Flood. Nonetheless, this is only speculation, and I do not know what flood, if any, the author of the song was referring to. 209.92.89.26 21:56, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the Banks of the Old Raritan (speculation)

message: I'm sorry, I just feel the need to blurt this out loud. NEW BRUNSWICK'S CITY HALL IS A BUNCH OF EMINENT DOMAIN ABUSERS. You heard that correctly. It uses eminent domain to trash and redevelop historic properties left and right without bothering to consider architectural value or the value of the properties to their neighbors. Even when it does consider such values, it's just a show trial before the execution. Recently, a small patch of properties, which is not dangerous, which is in reasonably decent condition, which serves the students of Rutgers okay, behind the New Brunswick train station, has been declared blighted and deemed a redevelopment area. NJ has too liberally written a redevelopment law, and someone needs to drive it through City Hall's collective thick skulls that redevelopment is something to be done with RESTRAINT and CAUTION. (End of rant.) 165.230.149.164 23:27, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia is not a soapbox, but...

message: While I find the caption on the picture of the football team amusing — "Rutgers football game, lost as usual by the Scarlet Knights" — I'm not sure it's appropriate for a Wikipedia article.  On the other hand, being a Rutgers alumnus myself, I do think the self-deprecating nature of Rutgers/NJ humor might be quite aptly represented by those words.  How do others feel about this?  --68.174.87.33 17:33, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm for it.  And I don't think it's inappropriate.  -Lethe | Talk 18:37, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

text: I'm for it too. The Scarlet Knights have a pretty bad record! :) (And I am the son of a Rutgers alumnus, so I have a vested interest in this one!) -- Jalabi99 03:51, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lost as usual? 

message: What is the origin of the name "Rutgers?"  I can't find it in the article.
69.137.220.238 03:37, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Named after Henry Rutgers.  It's in the article if you look closely.  -Lethe | Talk 03:49, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the name? 

message: Were there any large anti-war demonstrations at Rutgers during the 60s? I would think so because Rutgers is pretty much the largest university in New Jersey and during the Vietnam War the student movement was pretty large in the U.S. Maybe some of that should be put in the article with regards to the University's history. Jersey Devil 22:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rutgers during the 60's? 

message: I merged in the Rutgers College article; it was a near-verbatim dupe of the "Queen's College" section of this one already.  Rutgers College is now just a redirect to Rutgers University.  /blahedo (t) 05:20, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Rutgers College]] 

message: Actually, the reason why the statement should be qualified is that Public Ivies is a clearcut description... sort of. The phrase "Public Ivies" was very widely publicized by the appearance of Moll's 1985 book of that title... and Rutgers is not one of the eight schools originally annointed by Moll. 
I don't think it's go so far as to say "Rutgers is sometimes counted as one of the 'public Ivies' although it is not in Moll's original list of eight," that being unreasonably negative and Moll not being that much of an authority... but really only the College of William and Mary,  Miami University,  University of California, Berkeley,  University of Michigan, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,  University of Texas at Austin,  University of Vermont, and the  University of Virginia are "the" public Ivies. 11:03, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sometimes counted as one of the Public Ivies 

message: I'm surprised Philosophy, Waksman, and Milton Friedman aren't mentioned. They are some of the high points of RU. 70.111.251.203 02:27, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Milton Friedman? Founder of the "New Jersey School" of Economics? His connection with Rutgers is slight and overshadowed by his connection with another institution. Dpbsmith (talk) 11:02, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable things 

message: I do think that some of it needs to be trimmed, however creating "daughter" articles for it is not going to help especially doing such as drastic move without any consensus. I am going to put the newly created "daughter" articles up for deletion. Please discuss any further changes on this talk page.--Jersey Devil 22:34, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It certainly does help; the page is unseemingly big otherwise. You, sir, are the one who has ignored consensus (the page had been that way for months with no objection). I'm reverting, and I think that you might want to take a look at other articles (George W. Bush, United States, etc.) and see how all of them have daughter articles when the information is not immediately relevant to the subject. This is generally how we do things at Wikipedia, AFAIK. Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 05:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

text: * The article is too long. Doing daughter articles is standard practice for universities. -- JJay 00:34, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Plenty of complaints? Do you have any evidence--any at all--of anyone complaining? Because there's nothing on this talk page about it, and generally, if people are complaining, they're going to do it on the talk page... what exactly are you referring to? Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 06:27, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Content at the Bottom

message: The "RU Screw" was a frequently-used term when I attended Livingston in the late 1970s.  When I worked at the academic computer center (in the Hill Center basement) in the late 1980s, one of the late night denizens painted a large "no RU Screw" on one of the hallway walls.  I haven't been there in 15 years, but I understand it has been retouched many times.  There is a nice photo of it at .  I didn't take it, I just knew there had to be at least one out there and Google found it.  You can find other references quite easily.  The Medium, which was Livingston's weekly paper when I was there, has a link to a now-defunct site called "ru-screw.com" (perhaps archive.org has a copy?), and the Targum referred to "the clichéd RU Screw" in an article in December 2003, online at . RossPatterson 22:05, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RU Screw 

message: Is it really correct to refer to the campuses in Newark and Camden as "branches"? It seems that Rutgers' website and all the official literature really want to downplay this and promote the three campuses as equals. I know that coloquially we may refer to them as such, I think it's a bit unfair to imply that they are simply branches of the "main" campus in New Brunswick/Piscataway. Could "branch campuses" be replaced with "smaller campuses"? I think the Rutgers' situation is far different from, say, Penn State, where the "Commonwealth Campuses" really are intended to be branches that feed into the "main campus" in University Park... Passdoubt | Talk 22:35, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Branch" campuses? 

message: I think we should change the name from "Rutgers University" to "Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey", which is the correct and official name of Rutgers University.
:I also agree that the name should be changed to the official name Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.--Jersey Devil 01:07, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The official name of Rutgers on wiki 

message: I think that the article would be improved by our moving the lyrics to the 2 songs to links.  
--Epeefleche 16:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Songs

message: Can anyone figure out how to fix the footnotes?  There are multiples, it appears, with the same number ..............  Tx.
--Epeefleche 23:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Footnotes

message: I decided to perform a major reedit on the article, which I think has been abused over the past year since I touched it last.  If anyone disagrees with my treatment, feel free to discuss, I'm open to suggestions.  Also will be reediting other Rutgers articles, particularly on the Rutgers-Newark and Rutgers-Camden page...they need a slight expansion.  Will be expanding my re-edit to most Rutgers pages over the next few hours, if not days. —ExplorerCDT 18:21, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Major Reedit done 28 July 2006

message: "Rutgers was designated the State University of New Jersey by acts of the New Jersey Legislature in 1945 and 1956"
Does anyone have citation on that?  I'm not arguing that it didn't happen, of course, I'm just asking if anyone knows of anywhere that you can access a state legislature record of those acts, it would definitely add to the article if that kind of citation could be found.  Metros232 17:20, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acts of Legislature 

message: Does anyone think that the budget crisis of NJ forcing the college to slash a bunch of programs needs to be mentioned in this article?  Metros232 02:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Budget 

message: We may need a Rutgers Project for rehabbing all the Rutgers-related articles.  Several of the President articles I started last year were never finished (things get in the way), etc.  I am starting to edit Rutgers-Newark and Rutgers-Camden (which I think should be renamed). —ExplorerCDT 19:07, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * Good suggestion, left a message on the talk page there. Thanks. —ExplorerCDT 20:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rutgers-Newark and Rutgers-Camden

message: For the time being, I am removing the mascot section from the article.  This is a complete copy and paste from the introduction to the article on the history of the mascot from the athletics website.  .  This is a copyright violation, so I'm putting it here for now so that maybe something can be crafted out of it that can be used in the article. Metros232 23:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey ExplorerCDT - here's an example of something that should have been cited. :) If it the source had been cited we may have discovered this copyvio much earlier.  --ElKevbo 23:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh boy does that drip with the smug "I told you so" condescension.  I'd bet, considering Wikipedia by and large is uncited, about 90-95% of the shit on here is copyvio. Probably even half of your work. —ExplorerCDT 00:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you typically reply to jokes with accusations of plagarism?  --ElKevbo 00:16, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't write that shit about the mascot. Not my concern. As to the rest of wikipedia, I wouldn't be surprised if we scratched the surface how quick the copyvios would become apparent, the same, I predict if we examined with scrutiny your work. Do you typically like taking the na-na-na-na-na-na approach to victory just to making a point? If so, you really need to get drunk and get laid, psycho. —ExplorerCDT 00:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Sheesh, I just went back and looked to see how long it has been in there for my own curiosity... July 8 2005 it was added. Metros232 23:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mascot section 

message: The 4th paragraph of the introduction says: 
:Rutgers was once widely considered to be Columbia University's sister school given the original names of both institutions: Queen's College (Rutgers) and King's College (Columbia).
This was added in late November 2005 and hasn't really been touched since.  It was also added to the Colubmia article at the same time.  It was removed from that article about two weeks later saying: "No basis for Rutgers as Columbia's sister school, although both are old and had many interactions over their 250 or so years."
So I wonder if this belongs in the Rutgers article.  A. it goes back to the uncited debate.  But B. why is that in the article, especially in the lead paragraph?  It just feels like it's there to say "Hey, look at us, connected to COLUMBIA!"  I'm sure that's not the intent behind it of course, but from an outside perspective, it kind of feels that way.  Thoughts? Metros232 23:42, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Columbia statement 

message: *This was misplaced at the top.  Brought it down here. —ExplorerCDT 00:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Task Force Report

message: I started restructuring this article during the afternoon hours (EDT) of 7 August 2006 and half way through decided it would be prudent for me to explain my intentions so that no one a.) gets their nose bent out of joint, and b.) so people understand why I'm doing what I'm doing, and c.) so they know what I intend to add/subtract.  This may take a day or two.
In addition to adding citations, as has been vigorously argued above (and which I concede is important), I intend to do the following to make the article more comprehensive (currently, and I am to blame since I wrote a lot of it, it's very/too history-oriented):
#) Add subsections regarding Admissions, Financial Aid, Student Life, and Undergraduate and Graduate programs.
#) Make a few substantial mentions of Rutgers-Newark and Rutgers-Camden just to round out the article, despite it being currently New Brunswick-Piscataway campus heavy.
#) Add more to the Athletics section regarding the program today, hence why I placed it in its own section.  Will mention, as a point of reference, that alumni are divided between Bloustein-Lawrence's "bigger time" athletics, versus those who advocate smaller athletic programs with the old rivals (Princeton, Lafayette, Lehigh, etc.) and greater focus on academics (The RU1000 crowd).  Will mention championships that aren't in revenue sports (i.e. sports other than football, basketball)
#) Divisions of the University, I think should be added as a subsection of "About the University"
#) Something dealing with the Rutgers University Libraries
I think a Rutgers template may need to be made, to link things like the residential colleges, the professional schools, etc.  But that is for another time.  Perhaps that network of articles may not be necessary if this article becomes sufficiently comprehensive. The various Rutgers articles (like Douglass College, Cook College, Rutgers-Newark, Rutgers-Camden etc.) need to be worked on.  Columbia's set of articles (regarding its divisions) may be an influence, as with Oxford or Cambridge articles (re: residential colleges/institutions). —ExplorerCDT 22:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Major Restructuring/Edit 07AUGUST2006

message: Does anyone have a photo of the cannon on campus?  It seems odd that the "The Cannon War" section has a picture of the Statue of Prince William the Silent and not the cannon.  I think that statue photo needs to stay in the article, but it seems odd that it appears to be illustrating the cannon section, when it isn't.  So does anyone have a photo of the cannon and have a suggestion on where to move the statue image to? Metros232 19:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * P.S. Just so you know, I intend to expand the "Around campus" section to include a few more traditions linked to places around the university, like the Queen's Gate, etc.  And extend the "traditions" section to discuss possibly secret societies on campus, the mascot and school colors (which arise out of the first football game...they almost were orange). —ExplorerCDT 20:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cannon photo? 

message: Is this really necessary? It plays into the stereotypes about Rutgers, unfairly. Septentrionalis 01:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Athletics above tradition

message: I have consistently had to revert edits to the article that insert "woman" as an alternative lyric for "man" in the Alma Mater section, which has the lyrics to On the banks of the Old Raritan.  As seen by the link on the webpage, the official university text only shows one alteration to the lyrics, (the use of "my friends" for "my boys" in the chorus) and does not show any substitution of "woman" for "man" in the first verse...probably because it doesn't fit in with the melodic line.  It seems that these edits derive from people involved in Queen's Chorale, the women's SSAA chorus based on the Douglass campus, because this group of about 20 butchers the alma mater by adding "or a woman" to the line in a manner reminiscent of those pathetic grammar school renditions of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.  It is not official, none of the official Rutgers pages that put up the lyrics mentions such an alteration, and if it's based from the Queen's Chorale, it's a tradition of a very small minority that doesn't deserve mention in this article.  Therefore, whoever it is out there...please refrain from further attempts to alter the lyrics from their true, official form.  Until such time as the university recognizes such a substitution on their webpages and publications (i.e. The Rutgers Songbook), it should remain as is. I suggest that if you want to change it here, you should first direct your efforts to getting the university to make it official first. —ExplorerCDT 04:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite frankly, I don't care what the lyrics are as long as they are properly cited from a reliable source.  Simply changing the lyrics such that they are not in agreement with the cited source is dishonest and not in accordance with Wikipedia (or accepted scholarly) policies and principles.  If you change the text you gotta change the reference, too.  You can't change one without changing the other.  --ElKevbo 15:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the general idea stated by ElKevbo, that citation of a proper source is required, and propose two possible neutral compromises.  The first, which I believe to be most appropriate, is to revert to the original text of the song before any changes were made, that is, the author's (Fullerton) actual words.  I suggest striking the current reference (on Rutgers.edu), as it seems suspect to tampering, and indifferent to history- it does not even bother to mention the author of the work (an unacademic practice, which my alma mater should be ashamed of).  I would sooner believe something off of the football website.  The second proposal is to placate the more PC-minded (or perhaps more emotionally involved editors): add a footnote describing the evolution of the song, citing the causes for each change.  I'm not a huge fan of the latter for conciseness issues, and believe it's not very encyclopedic (we could probably create a short yet complete article on the song), but I'm willing to compromise on this. MJKazin 20:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Alma Mater and Political Correctness

message: I have talked with User:Metros232 a few days about concerns over the size of the page given the scope of the restructuring of this article that I have undertaken. We discussed the idea of splitting up the page if it gets too big. I pointed out that the range of University articles is roughly 40-75Kb, and that the average range was between 50-60Kb for the good ones, one's I used as influences in my restructuring. Right now, as I write this, the article is about 50Kb in total, and will probably add another 10-15Kb of material. It should top out at 60-65Kb, probably toward the lower end of that range.
However, when you reduce the article by eliminating the markup and other coding that is excludable (footnotes, references, see also, diagrams, images, tables, lists, links, formatting, etc.), there are right now, a little over 5200 words, or roughly 26Kb of text. This I think fits within the Wikipedia size guidelines to not merit splitting up the article. The article is roughly comparable in size to articles regarding institutions with which Rutgers has been associated (academically and athletically) in its long history: Cornell, Princeton, Yale, Michigan, Duke etc. Therefore, I think it is appropriate.
In the end, if you think the article is too long, I ask before anyone brings up "let's split it up" to look through the article and edit out some of the lengthy sentence structure, excess verbosity, etc. from the article, and see how much that diminishes the size. After all, the Wikipedia policy in question does encourage us not to be hasty in splitting up an article. Any questions, comments, etc. you know what to do. —ExplorerCDT 04:16, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Size of the article

message: This is the type of people my alma mater produces (God help us):http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5841359235307549939&q=Rutgers&hl=en. Enjoy! —ExplorerCDT 18:01, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Some humour

message: I asked that this article be protected so that this whole alma mater thing can be discussed on a talk page rather than through edit summaries and attacks on user's talk pages.  Please work this out here.  I haven't been involved with this dispute, but I've been working on the Rutgers article lately and I'd prefer it if we could produce an article without this kind of revert-warring.  So, please, discuss, but be WP:CIVIL and remember other guidelines like WP:Verifiability and reliable sources.  Thanks, Metros232 23:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks!  At least one of those who are editing the article to add "woman" to the alma mater has finally begun discussing the issue on his or her Talk page.  We're not making any progress addressing the issue but I guess at least discussing it is *some* progress...  --ElKevbo 23:02, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: The reference to the "first intercollegiate football game" needs to be changed to something like the "first intercollegiate soccer game."  The fact that Rutgers students in 1869 described their game as "foot-ball" or something similar seems to confuse people -- they were not referring to American football, which was not begun until 1873.  Instead they were playing Association Football, better known in the U.S. as soccer. (Yes, they had 25 on a side and were allowed some use of the hands, both of which were permitted by the Football Association rules at the time or the students' own modifications.) The 1869 game has nothing to do with American college football today: nothing evolved from it.  Rutgers had to abandon soccer and switch to American football rules within a few years to play against schools that actually originated the game that continues to be played today. So the phrase "intercollegiate football" is inaccurate, because it implies American football.  (Various apparently official sites make this claim but they are simply false.) Wakonda 21:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "first intercollegiate football game"

message: In development. Seeking suggestions. Red links are pages I wouldn't mind seeing made, and will probably pick at over time. —ExplorerCDT 10:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Template:Rutgers]]

message: On this article it says Rutgers turned down an invitation to the Ivy League. I've heard this several times, but I can never find anything concrete about it. I've pretty much come to believe that it's a modern myth, since I can never find anything to back it up. In fact everything I read about the Ivy League makes no mention of it. On top of that, I found this link which somewhat confirms my belief:
http://www.syracuse.com/weblogs/print.ssf?/mtlogs/syr_orangefootball/archives/print167451.html
Until someone shows me a concrete source which can verify the story, I'm tagging the passages that mention it.
--Osprey39 06:42, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks--Osprey39 06:00, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ivy League Invitation 

message: The Grease trucks article is notable enough to stand alone as an article and should not be merged. There are many sources throughout the internet citing the prominace of the Grease Trucks. Valoem talk 20:06, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Against the merging of Grease Trucks 

message: I changed the heading "Today" to "Contemporary". Does anyone else object other than the person who reverted it? "Today" refers to "24 hours of time", but the article is referring to events covering several years. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 04:25, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Today vs Contemporary

message: Should we name this article Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey or Rutgers University? Naming the article just Rutgers is not an option, since it has to have the "university" quality in some way shape or form.
Rationale:
# The Institution was known as Rutgers University from 1924 to 1956 when it was renamed Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, which it has used 1956 to present. (Before that it was Queen's College 1766 to 1825 and Rutgers College 1825 to 1924) but even those weren't technically correct given the institution's charter and legislative actions (it's official corporate name in 1766 was The Trustees of Queen's College in New Jersey)
# Most t-shirts and promotional items just say Rutgers or Rutgers University, but Degrees, letterheads, websites, are officially instructed to say Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey (see  and )
# Official, self-identifying name of the institution is currently Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.
# The "Rutgers Law" which makes the institution the State University (NJSA 18A:65-1 et seq.) just says that it is called Rutgers, The State University, but allows for permutations The University and The State University of New Jersey
# Google Results: 906,000 for "Rutgers University" (minus "state")  and 759,000 for "Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey"  so arguably, the spirit of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) would lean toward Rutgers University.
# There's currently a big debate going on about whether to use a common or official name for an institution or entity, we should wait until it's resolve, or we could admit that it likely will never be resolved.
# Redirects are cheap and easy.
===Support===
(This article should be renamed to Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, with Rutgers University redirecting)
# —ExplorerCDT 08:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *ExplorerCDT says on my talk page that Turdus migratorius is not a good example, because apparently the issue of common versus scientific zoological nomenclature is in dispute. So I was going to replace it with another, but unfortunately the first two that came to my mind didn't turn out the way I wanted—New World Symphony redirects to Symphony No. 9 (Dvořák), not the other way around, and Quaker, a familiar term, redirects to Religious Society of Friends, which is quite unfamiliar to people who aren't QuakersFriends. So, in the interest of intellectual dishonesty, I'm not going to mention those counterexamples. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Explorer, have you prepared a resumé or CV in the last decade or so? What form of Rutgers' name did you use on it? (My own does say Massachusetts Institute of Technology rather than MIT.) Dpbsmith (talk) 15:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * I've wrtiten that my B.A. came from Rutgers College, Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey on my curricula/resumes since 2000, including not only the long form but my degree-granting residential college affiliation because RC has more stringent admissions and graduation requirements (and historical significance being the 1766 core of the university) than other residential colleges like the affirmative-action/civil rights baby "Livingston College", founded in 1969. Though, I am jealous and feeling inferior because my ancestors who attended before Rutgers was annexed by the state not only got to use A.B., but received degrees that were vellum and inscribed in Latin. —ExplorerCDT 17:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *I just made the embarrassing discovery that The boy stood on the burning deck is a redirect to Casabianca (poem)... embarrassing because I created both the original article and the redirect myself. Dpbsmith (talk) 17:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

text: * It's rather funny that you raised the idea of a name change last time around (see archive), and I opposed. Now I raise the issue and you oppose. Odd. Don't forget, redirects are cheap. —ExplorerCDT 18:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Straw Poll: Which name to be used?

message: (This article should be renamed to Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, with Rutgers University redirecting)
# —ExplorerCDT 08:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Support'''

message: (This article should remain at Rutgers University, with Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey redirecting)
# The naming convention is to use the most common name. Wikipedia consistently eschews using full formal names. Official names do not trump common names. State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations is a redirect, not an article. Turdus migratorius is a redirect, not an article. Moby Dick; or, The Whale is a redirect, not an article. Rutgers is frequently referred to as "Rutgers" and frequently referred to as "Rutgers University." But is almost impossible to imagine anyone referring to Rutgers as "Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey" except at the top of a letterhead or on a diploma or in a legal paper. To move it would be pompous and pedantic... and, as you note, clearly outside the spirit of the naming convention. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *ExplorerCDT says on my talk page that Turdus migratorius is not a good example, because apparently the issue of common versus scientific zoological nomenclature is in dispute. So I was going to replace it with another, but unfortunately the first two that came to my mind didn't turn out the way I wanted—New World Symphony redirects to Symphony No. 9 (Dvořák), not the other way around, and Quaker, a familiar term, redirects to Religious Society of Friends, which is quite unfamiliar to people who aren't QuakersFriends. So, in the interest of intellectual dishonesty, I'm not going to mention those counterexamples. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Explorer, have you prepared a resumé or CV in the last decade or so? What form of Rutgers' name did you use on it? (My own does say Massachusetts Institute of Technology rather than MIT.) Dpbsmith (talk) 15:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * I've wrtiten that my B.A. came from Rutgers College, Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey on my curricula/resumes since 2000, including not only the long form but my degree-granting residential college affiliation because RC has more stringent admissions and graduation requirements (and historical significance being the 1766 core of the university) than other residential colleges like the affirmative-action/civil rights baby "Livingston College", founded in 1969. Though, I am jealous and feeling inferior because my ancestors who attended before Rutgers was annexed by the state not only got to use A.B., but received degrees that were vellum and inscribed in Latin. —ExplorerCDT 17:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *I just made the embarrassing discovery that The boy stood on the burning deck is a redirect to Casabianca (poem)... embarrassing because I created both the original article and the redirect myself. Dpbsmith (talk) 17:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

text: * It's rather funny that you raised the idea of a name change last time around (see archive), and I opposed. Now I raise the issue and you oppose. Odd. Don't forget, redirects are cheap. —ExplorerCDT 18:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Oppose'''

message: FYI: I've started a WikiProject, hopefully to be under the auspices of the New Jersey and Universities WikiProjects to direct efforts to articles related to Rutgers University, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Rutgers. —ExplorerCDT 16:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Rutgers

message: A very solid article. Very few content issues at all. I say look over my suggestions, maybe one more copyedit, then it looks ready for FA nomination.
* Logos needs fair use rationale. Also, there might be an issue about the seal being too large to be considered fair use. (On an unrelated note, might want to remove the logo from your userpage and that violates fair use criteria #8.)
* The use of Milton Friedman's image on this page violates fair use criteria.
* Specify a source for how many lives streptomycin has saved.
* May want to double check my punctuation, but are two periods needed after John McComb, Jr.?
* "Later, University College (1945), founded to serve part-time, commuting students and Livingston College (1969), emphasizing the urban experience, were created." This sentence seems a little awkward to me.
* Fix ref spacing. Refs should be placed outside of spaces. I saw numerous instances where the ref was before the period and where there was a space between the period and the ref.
* There is a parenthesis issue in the "Diversity and locations" section.
* May want to fix the citation needed in the Alumni section before going for FA.
Let me know if you have any questions.--NMajdan•talk 18:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer review 

message: Where are the Rutgers Hos? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.22.221.52 (talk) 22:11, April 12, 2007
:You're going to have to rephrase your question if you really want an answer. Otherwise I have to assume that you're simply engaging in more vandalism and looking for attention. --ElKevbo 03:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Wikipedia:Recentism. Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 22:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where are the Rutgers Hos? 

message: http://www.fanblogs.com/rutgers/006540.php
Amishjedi 23:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting Article I just found 

message: The article says "Rutgers is also home to Melville scholar H. Bruce Franklin, whose academic tenure was revoked by Stanford University for actions that were arguably the exercise of his First Amendment right to free speech." Could that be phrased in a more explanatory way? It's not clear why his dismissal is relevant to his job at Rutgers (did Rutgers hire him because of the way he was fired or dismissed?), or what the First Amendment has to do with Stanford at all.
:--Dartmothian (talk) 21:07, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Odd statement 

message: Unnecessary, as there is a large section containing numerous rankings and measurements. WP:Avoid academic boosterism. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ranking in lead paragraph

message: Shouldn't the official school insignia be at the top of the infobox (instead of as an afterthought in the footer) instead of the coat of arms? I know it's good to include the CoA, but, to keep consistency with the others, should they be reversed? EaglesFanInTampa 22:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coat of Arms vs Insignia 

message: This article still does not explain just how Rutgers University was nationalized. (And before someone again declares that it was not nationalized, please read the article on nationalization or at least pay due attention to a dictionary.) —SlamDiego←T 07:38, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationalization 

message: In 1982, a move by the administration to decentralize the faculty, while heavily protested, was successful.[5] However... red tape and confusion, known among students as the "RU Screw."[18]
1) Screw not new in '82. The phrase "Rutgers Screw" was in WIDE common use when I arrived in 1972. My wife agrees. Fashion may have shifted to "RU Screw", whatEVER, not new news.
2) The 1982 action combined faculty, not "decentralize(d)" them. Independent departments at Livingston, Rutgers (main), and Douglass were merged into single departments. Read the protest sign at
http://ruweb.rutgers.edu/timeline/1980a.htm and
http://ruweb.rutgers.edu/timeline/images/1980a1.jpg
"decentralization not centralization"
3) I don't recall the protests as "heavy", but objective references may not exist.
4) NPOV: be careful about taking protests too seriously. Everything gets protested by somebody. Rutgers has a vast Silent Majority. I believe (without citation) that the majority of students and faculty saw potential benefit in the change (or didn't care). One Chair was VERY excited to have access to better facilities. Obviously there was disruption and disturbance (that Chair got moved to a damp basement office and lost his Chairmanship and a lot of autonomy). But I feel the Balkanized campus-level departments were generally strengthened by merging.
5) It is too soon to say what the current reorganization really means. It turns out the 1982 action merged the Faculty but not the Colleges. College Deans set requirements and granted degrees but the faculty worked for FAS (now SAS). You'd have to work at Rutgers to understand. The current reorganization appears to finish what the 1982 upheaval started: the historical Colleges will fade, become Residential Colleges. For most students, it will be a non-event. It may simplify things for a few, not that they'd notice.
6) A much greater upheaval happened 2 years back. "All Funds Budgeting". RU presents a neat budget summary to State and Board. But the fine details were highly informal, historical, whimsical, political. Much as Ford Motor rationalized the books after WWII, Rutgers changed school and departmental accounting to be tied to tuition monies. This has been a boon to some and a disaster to others. Some subjects are all lecture, others are a lot of hands-on and expensive supplies. Like all drama at RU, it will take years to see how this plays out.
7) Did I miss mention of the old Governor's whim to merge ALL the state schools? I know that idea ran hot then cold. When hot it was a real hot-potato issue. Between scandal at the Gov and scandal at That Other School, it's probably been dropped.
8) You can try to objectively understand RU, and go mad; or just cover the solid basics without delving in the murk. The 1982 reorganization is of interest only because of the the current reorg; after that is done neither reorg is of lasting interest except to old man McCormick, and he's not with us now. While I agree that Wikipedia may handle current events, I'd rank RU reorg as fairly uninteresting to the general public, and very poorly understood or documented.
PRR 68.239.136.129 06:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  RU Screw 

message: hmmm. —Rickyrab | Talk 23:36, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this why Rutgers dumped men's crew as a varsity sport? Because they were annoyed over the Rutgers Screw?

message: The location should simply refer to the university system HQ. And these departments are out of New Brunswick:
* "About the President." - "Office of the President Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey 83 Somerset Street • New Brunswick • NJ • 08901"
* "Governing Boards of the University." "Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey Office of the Secretary of the University 7 College Avenue Winants Hall, Room 112 New Brunswick, New Jersey 08901-1260 "
* "Mailing Addresses & Locations." (University Relations) "Office of the Vice President Department of University Relations Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey 83 Somerset Street New Brunswick, NJ 08901-1281"
WhisperToMe (talk) 17:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Location

message: In the last couple of days someone added detailed information about the New Brunswick-area campus bus system to this article (and in the process seems to have broken the heading hierarchy of some other sections). While I am not sure that a listing of Rutgers campus bus routes belongs anywhere on Wikipedia, I am sure it does not belong in this article, which is an overview of the entire statewide university. I am removing this information and for now, at least, am moving it to the Rutgers – New Brunswick article. Later correction: I now see it is already in that article in somewhat different format and with somewhat different information. I have not compared the two to see which is better and/or more comprehensive. If someone feels the information that was here is better, you can substitute it from the edit history of this article into that section of the other article, or merge them or blend them or whatever. Just please do it in that article, not this one. Neutron (talk) 19:48, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Being the second largest bus system in NJ, and a major part of campus life for students, it is worth a mention, but going into details about it does not add to the article. I edited this for appropriate focus in the article. 74.102.164.44 (talk) 19:08, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bus system 

message: There is a photo of Ray Rice in the article. Is Ray Rice the most famous alumnus from Rutgers University? I have never heard of him, but I'm not interested in football, so that might be the reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carstensen (talk • contribs) 15:14, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe Waksmann (There's a photo of him, too) is probably the most famous alumnus. But Rice is probably the most famous recent one. He has been featured in many New York Times sports articles. In addition, he was the biggest name on campus, while he was still there. Even those of us who never watched a Rutgers football game could recognize him on sight.169.232.131.133 (talk) 21:19, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Ray Rice

message: I visited Rutgers recently and took perhaps 50 photos; many need better descriptions; please feel free to use them in this article if desired; they can be found within here] (as time goes by you may have to scroll down a bit to find the Rutgers photos as new ones become added -- or else look at the newer photos on the bottom of Category:Rutgers University.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:29, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Many new photos added 

message: Would the contributor who keeps removing photos kindly explain why they have done so?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 16:31, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The photos are unnecessary and do not help support the University's image. Additionally, the captions include blatant examples of academic boosterism.74.105.146.57 (talk) 04:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Nonsense. Photos of campus buildings or Rutgers students are "unnecessary"? The photos are relevant and useful and encyclopedic. The comment "do not help support the University's image" is more nonsense -- Wikipedia is not a public relations brochure for any college, so claiming to remove photos on that basis is absurd, or going in the other direction, and claiming that photos of buildings or students are "blatant" academic boosterism -- more nonsense. How does a photo of a building or students at an admissions event constitute "boosterism"? Simply nonsense.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 10:37, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

text: Tell you what. If there is some other personal issue bothering you about these photos, something that you do not wish to publicly explain, then email me at thomaswrightsulcer (at) yahoo (dot) com and be upfront with me about what troubles you, and I will try to work with you, and I will keep our conversation confidential. Or, if you wish, choose one photo that bothers you the most, and I'll try to delete it, regardless of any reason, if that might satisfy you (but that's it -- if more photos are continually removed, then I will take back my offer). If you agree, choose one photo.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:24, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Rutgers photos 

message: Another editor and I disagree about whether this material should be included in the article.  Can others please weigh in?  Thanks!  ElKevbo (talk) 22:16, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: * I have seen this disagreement unfold on my watchlist today, and I agree with User:ElKevbo--this discussion on Rutgers transitioning to "cage-free eggs" should not be included in the article.  This entire section is rather "miscellaneous" and trivial--the kind of stuff that WP:TRIVIA and WP:INDISCRIMINATE tells us to avoid--and needs cleanup.  Just because it happened, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia per the latter policy. Further, IMHO, this content pushes an agenda which runs afoul (no pun intended) of WP:NOTSOAPBOX.  While it was reported in patch.com, that news service is comparable to a blog and lacks credibility, and I think we should apply both WP:NEWSBLOG (patch doesn't qualify as a blog connected reliable news organisation) and WP:BLOGS which advises that such news sources often do not qualify as reliable sources adding Take care when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else will probably have done so.--the only coverage of the issue was in patch and the Rutgers student newspaper which renders this information far below the standards for notability, per WP:N (i.e. the lack of "significant coverage" in reliable sources unconnected to the subject.).  I agree with User:ElKevbo, the content should not be included, it is not encyclopaedic, and I'm removing it per the above and in the spirit of WP:BOLD.--ColonelHenry (talk) 22:49, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: * I'm mostly agreeing with ElKevbo and ColonelHenry except I'm thinking perhaps a mention of this could be added somewhere, albeit briefly.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:15, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: * I would not object to a brief mention (i.e. one sentence) if it were part of a larger context, like a section on activism, and not a self-aggrandizing pat on the back to some student organization (which isn't per se notable)...since Rutgers was well known for 1960s sit-in protests and Vietnam issues, and recently was the birthplace of Tent State University. But I think there is a high bar for relevance, even with the latitude offered by WP:N, and I am very doubtful this "event" merits even a brief mention--any more than James O'Keefe's petition to remove "Lucky Charms" breakfast cereal from the dining hall on the grounds it was offensive to Irish-Americans. --ColonelHenry (talk) 16:28, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

text: *I'd be willing to compromise with a (very) brief mention if there is a legitimate rationale for including this material (that does not include merely publicizing or celebrating it).  I agree that this incident is a good example of meaningful, effective student activism.  Such an example may not be necessary or warranted in this article but if one is needed then this is a good, recent one (although there may be others that are better). ElKevbo (talk) 19:45, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Eggs and activism

message: In the last week, two anonymous IP editors have insisted on reversing the order of the university's bold name in the lede sentence.  The lede, as I recently revised it states:
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, /ˈrʌtɡərz/, known informally as Rutgers University, is an American public research university and the largest institution for higher education in New Jersey in the United States.
These anonymous IP editors have sought to revise it to Rutgers University, officially Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, is an...
I have revised it as such for the following reasons:
* By state law, Rutgers is "Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey" 
* Rutgers' University Relations department publishes a style guide, stating that in first reference the official statutory name Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey is to be used, subsequent references may use the informal. .  Rutgers consistently uses the format of its style guide, its letterhead, website, and public relations documents all use the formal name prominently.
* The name "Rutgers University" has not been official since 1945 and while it was decided above to rename the article Rutgers University per WP:UCN, the common name is not the official name.
* The universities wikiproject advises the use of WP:UCN in naming an article, but implies formal name and then other names in the lede content.  Standard use throughout the wikiproject's articles has been formal name first, other informal names to follow.
Comparative use (official names vs. informal names):
* Pennsylvania State University ("The Pennsylvania State University" is the official name. While the article name is just "Pennsylvania State University" putatively under WP:UCN and is lacking the definite article The per MOS rules on starting article names with "The", this form is not the official name, neither is another common name, Penn State which are subsequent references
** The first sentence: The Pennsylvania State University (commonly referred to as Penn State or PSU) is a public, state-related research university with campuses and facilities in Pennsylvania
* At Ohio State University (similarly official name is The Ohio State University)
** The first sentence: The Ohio State University, commonly referred to as Ohio State or OSU, is a public research university in Columbus, Ohio.
* At Stanford University:
** The first sentence: Leland Stanford Junior University, commonly referred to as Stanford University or Stanford, is an American private research university located in Stanford, California.
* At University of Oxford
** The first sentence: The University of Oxford (informally referred to as Oxford University or simply Oxford) is a collegiate research university located in Oxford, England, United Kingdom.
* Comparatively, geographic names tend to be by its original name: Mumbai, also known as Bombay, is the capital of the Indian state of Maharashtra. The general rule is that "the modern official name, in articles dealing with the present, or the modern local historical name, in articles dealing with a specific period, should be used"--followed by alternative names.  Per WP:MPN, "For an article about a place whose name has changed over time, context is important. For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name), rather than an older one."
* Biographical articles use the full name of the individual before common name, per WP:LEDE and WP:FULLNAME
* articles regarding companies and organizations use the official name first then the informal names (see examples: 3M, Microsoft, AMD, GE, Chrysler).
Just a few considerations. Please stop changing the order as it is less accurate, and not in keeping with establish convention for university articles.--ColonelHenry (talk) 13:14, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: While my preference is Rutgers University as the first two words in the article (basic reason: it seems to be an established Wikipedia guideline that the first words reflect the article title exactly), however, in consideration of your lengthy work on this article, out of deference I'll support your decision regarding this.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:10, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  WP:LEDE, WP:UCN and any other guidelines regarding this topic do not compel or specifically establish anything close to your assertion "the first words reflect the article title exactly" as we see with the examples enumerated above and many others, especially when we consider usage across the universities wikiproject, Rutgers' own style guide (which we defer to in naming Rutgers-Newark and Rutgers-Camden and other places), we defer then the official name. WP:LEDE advises that "the page title is used as the subject of the first sentence, it may appear in a slightly different form" and that the formal name be used as early as possible.  Whether a common name titles the article, it is not apposite to use a name that hasn't been an official name since 1945 as the first statement of the article. UCN only refers to article titles, not to content. And while I appreciate your deference, I'd rather have your statement comment on my points regarding the interpretation and application of guidelines vis-à-vis the comparative usage as discussed above. Deference is nice, but it doesn't establish a consensus or get to the essence of policy and action. --ColonelHenry (talk) 13:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Generally I do not see this as an important issue. I have edited Wikipedia for several years now; my general sense, not based on any specific rulings, is that most articles begin with the exact words, that we are not bound to go by what the University feels should be its title but generally what users, looking for information about Rutgers University, will look for. That is, if you asked me for my view, that is what I would tell you, that is, if you valued my opinion. Still, if you feel strongly about this, I'll side with you, because of your previous contributions to this article, which in my view merits deference.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 14:29, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I asked for WP:LEDE to address this specific example at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Lead section and to make the result of that discussion MOS policy.  Since biographies, place names, WP:FULLNAME, WP:MPN, and companies tend to mention first the formal name then informal names in their first sentences (despite what WP:UCN determines to be their article titles), there should be a consistent edict regarding the format/content order of first sentences of articles on universities and educational institutions. --ColonelHenry (talk) 14:36, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes although I am thinking it is unlikely that the community will achieve consensus on this issue; it would be hard to enforce; and I think it is mostly a matter of taste and how strongly feel about it. I doubt it would be possible, or even advisable, on a slightly similar issue, to impose only one referencing style on all articles in Wikipedia, since too many different writers, over time, have brought different ideas, and the referencing styles themselves continue to evolve; what is important, rather, is that referencing happens. Same with this subject: what is important is that the article talks about what the article talks about. I can run with your lede sentence as it is. In my view, consistency ranks way down on the list of priorities for fixing Wikipedia.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:00, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we can agree to disagree on consistency as a priority.  I am a little surprised though that the university articles generally conform to mentioning the official name first. It would be nice if there is a definitive policy to point to avoid rehashing the issue in the future.--ColonelHenry (talk) 15:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Point noted.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:17, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

text: I don't see why it matters much which comes first, as long as both are included in the lede. Normally when we put alternate names in the lede, we bold both of them, so people will spot it regardless. Personally, I much prefer wording like "Stanford University, officially named Leland Stanford Jr. University." but I can't imagine bothering to change an article one way or the other. It is exactly this type of issue where the community cannot  attain consensus, for the excellent reason that it does not matter.  For things that do not matter, one person's preference is as good as another's and there is no reason to expect they will agree. One thing community editing cannot be expected to achieve is consistency. The traditional WP arguing over things like this is a distraction from editing. And this article does need some serious editing, including   removal of puffery, such as "The university's three campuses offer instruction by distinguished faculty in 175 academic fields. or "Rutgers University Cell and DNA Repository (RUCDR) ...activities will enable gene discovery leading to diagnoses, treatments and, eventually, cures for these diseases. RUCDR assists researchers throughout the world by providing the highest quality biomaterials, technical consultation, and logistical support." .    DGG ( talk ) 19:49, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  ...as they say: when the stakes are low, the fights get lower. The puffery in the article I've been working on--I'm rewriting the entire article offsite, and formatting it in my sandbox section by section, and that's already a passage I've rewritten, just waiting to prep it. I should be fixing that for good in short order.--ColonelHenry (talk) 20:52, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad to know it--keeps me from going inefficiently bit by bit to do what you're doing systematically. Not that the Rutgers article is particular bad--a large proportion of our   university articles have similar problems.  03:30, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with the Rutgers article is that it seems to have started with little, then a few editors came in with material that was 60%-accurate and good and supportable, and 40% "hey, I went to school here, I know this, it's true because I've been told."  Then over the years, the accurate information became outdated, and most of the submissions were other people put a line or two about stuff they knew, but only a few added semi-accurate or accurate material with citations.  What I'm aiming to do, is cite everything--practically every sentence--cut down the fluff, and make the article efficient. Just the facts because ultimately, I'd like to bring it up to FA standard.--ColonelHenry (talk) 11:58, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: LEDE First Sentence issue: Rutgers University vs. Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey

message: removed for redevelopment:
Rejection of Ivy League Status
In 1792, the President of the College of New Jersey, John Witherspoon, proposed a union of that college with Queen's College of New Brunswick, NJ. A committee of Princeton Trustees was formed to meet with the Trustees of Queen's College. At the Princeton Trustees Meeting of December 18th, 1793, it was reported that the Trustees of Queen's College rejected the offer (pp. 319-320)
"Dr. Witherspoon reported that he had received a letter from Archibald Mercer Esqr. informing him that the Trustees of Queen's College had rejected the poropositions of the joint committees of that college & the college of New Jersey on the subject of a uion of the two institutions." The College of New Jersey was the future Princeton University and Queen's College became Rutgers University. It might be added that one of Witherspoon's graduates, Ira Condict, served as vice-President of Rutgers and is credited with both saving with rejuvenating the college during later troubles in the 19th century. 
The original Minutes of the Princeton Trustees may be viewed here The union was discussed in Volume 1 of the Trustees Minutes on pp. 316-320, beginning with the Trustees Meeting of August 26th 1793 (p. 316).
* Has nothing to do with the Ivy League, a 1950s creation
* Needs to be properly formatted/edited (too much on one topic, undue)
* Possible move to History of Rutgers University to keep the history section here just a summary.
--ColonelHenry (talk) 14:02, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: New material re Rutgers Princeton merger 1792

message: Other colleges and universities have lists; might be time for one here too unless one has already been started?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 23:03, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: * I agree, the entire alumni section needs to be pared down significantly. There is already List of Rutgers University people which I'm thinking needs to be split into faculty and alumni.--ColonelHenry (talk) 01:52, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: , I paired down the section by roughly half...despite thinking about it this week, I was finally spurred on tonight by Randal Pinkett's PR reps trying to insert him into the article. I think I narrowed it down to recognizably notable people and cut out a lot of lesser notable people. Made it feel less like a "me, too" list.--ColonelHenry (talk) 02:36, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Good job, . Thanks for info above. I missed the List of Rutgers University people the last time I looked for it; I got swamped by the names. I added a duplicate link in the See also section which maybe not needed, but I missed it the first time so maybe others might do the same? I added to the list Gwendolyn Audrey Foster, film studies expert.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 10:10, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should be a spinoff article entitled ''List of Rutgers alumni'' 

message: Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences is not a fourth campus, it is an organization devoted to health sciences under the Rutgers University administration. The organization is spreadout  all over the three campuses in New Brunswick/Piscataway, Newark and Camden. Juicy fruit146 (talk) 21:38, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: * Nah, I'll just assume that was an error you've made 1,000 times before simply out of not knowing any better. "Narrow-minded"...laughable, given that I'm quite a bit more erudite on a bad day than you will ever be. Is that too big a word for New Mexico?--ColonelHenry (talk) 05:07, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

text: * Again, four reliable sources (Rutgers itself, UMDNJ and the State of NJ's Higher Education commission, and two regional media sources) provided say the RBHS division, spread out as it is, is considered a "fourth campus"--I assert that, accordingly, (a) your complaint is invalid and baseless, and should you chose to pursue it, reliable sources (provided) will beat out your petulance every time, and (b) you might as well join those Penn State idiots in that category since your persistence only cements my impression of you as an idiot to whom nothing can be explained and who either doesn't want to read or doesn't know how to read a reliable source. I'm tired of you. --ColonelHenry (talk) 14:56, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

text: * I didn't say "regional campus"...what are you a five year old? I'm done with you.--ColonelHenry (talk) 22:20, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: * People, people, people, enough. You are both better than this. Please remember to assume good faith. I looked over your discussion here and I am kind of thinking that you're both right -- that RBHS is an umbrella organization and there is a fourth campus, like if we got in a dirigible, buzzed around the state, marking each campus by splattering a giant R in red paint on the rooftops of a prominent building in each, we'd count four. Not that I have any plans to go dirigible-splattering red Rs, mind you; but it is a hypothetical possibility.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:58, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: * Tom, if you look at the section, I addressed all those concerns in the article in the RBHS section, and did so adequately covering all bases. But this adamantly annoying New Mexico-based gadfly seems to prefer that we delete it all together. I'm done with this annoying user, and if he keeps causing trouble (like he does at other university articles where he's similarly reverted), I'll have him blocked. --ColonelHenry (talk) 13:46, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences 

message: Rutgers University Libraries are starting a year long GLAM wikiproject. You can help!  static shakedown ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ 20:41, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rutgers Libraries GLAM project 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Rutgers University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140405000841/http://ur.rutgers.edu/magazine/article/View%20from%20the%20Inside/38/ to http://ur.rutgers.edu/magazine/article/View%20from%20the%20Inside/38/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150109003715/http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15168&start=782 to http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15168&start=782
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Rutgers University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060819101707/http://www.aau.edu:80/aau/members.html to http://www.aau.edu/aau/members.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060901094715/http://ruweb.rutgers.edu/governance/BOTmembers.shtml to http://ruweb.rutgers.edu/governance/BOTmembers.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060826121836/http://www.ncaa.org:80/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html to http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have created a userbox for anyone affiliated with it. Userboxes for "affliation", "student", "faculty" and "alumni".
If anyone care to tweak the boxes, be my guest.  Winterysteppe (talk) 04:35, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Userbox 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Rutgers University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130606030512/http://president.rutgers.edu/writings/letters/plan-enhancing-college-avenue-campus to http://president.rutgers.edu/writings/letters/plan-enhancing-college-avenue-campus
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110925053315/http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15169&start=782 to http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15169&start=782
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20150227100525/http://oirap.rutgers.edu/instchar/CDS/2013/NewBrunswickRegion13.pd to http://oirap.rutgers.edu/instchar/CDS/2013/NewBrunswickRegion13.pd
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Rutgers University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140405000841/http://ur.rutgers.edu/magazine/article/View%20from%20the%20Inside/38/ to http://ur.rutgers.edu/magazine/article/View%20from%20the%20Inside/38/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060807061644/http://geology.rutgers.edu/museum.shtml to http://geology.rutgers.edu/museum.shtml
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I am adding Maryann Keller to the list of notable alumni of Rutgers University under section “Notable people”, subsection “Alumni”.
Maryann Keller (B.S. 1966), former Wall Street analyst, President of Priceline.com automotive services division and Managing director of Dollar Thrifty Automotive Group.  Here is a reliable source to support this claim: https://www.newark.rutgers.edu/about-us/have-you-met-rutgers-newark/maryann-keller-ncas  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wpacr1990 (talk • contribs) 13:01, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding Maryann Keller to the list of Rutgers' alumni

message: Is this the Rugrats University?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hakumanuichi (talk • contribs) 13:23, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this the Rugrats University?

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I have just modified 4 external links on Rutgers University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=16046531&depth=2&expandheadings=off&headingswithhits=on&infobase=statutes.nfo&softpage=TOC_Frame_Pg42
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101129095211/http://www.varsityvocals.com/acappella-results.html to http://varsityvocals.com/acappella-results.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150821010155/http://socialwork.rutgers.edu/Libraries/Study_Abroad/China_flier.sflb.ashx to http://socialwork.rutgers.edu/Libraries/Study_Abroad/China_flier.sflb.ashx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150503182955/http://socialwork.rutgers.edu/CentersandPrograms/Huamin/Visiting_Scholars.aspx to http://socialwork.rutgers.edu/CentersandPrograms/Huamin/Visiting_Scholars.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150503173401/http://socialwork.rutgers.edu/CentersandPrograms/Huamin/Exchange/BUCT_Visit.aspx to http://socialwork.rutgers.edu/CentersandPrograms/Huamin/Exchange/BUCT_Visit.aspx
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Presumably classes were held in Dutch at the establishment of the institution. Is there any information available as to when the switch to English was made?Sylvain1972 (talk) 13:53, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language of instruction 

message: The section on Rutgers-New Brunswick seems to have been written by a junior high school student. It's not even good enough for the Targum. Sad. -A disappointed alumnus  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.49.191 (talk) 00:10, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I've attempted a little bit of clean-up.  Hope that helps. RenaissongsMan 01:57, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrible text 

message: This draft has info that may be useful for a section of the university article. Please assess and merge as desirable. Legacypac (talk) 01:23, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged. Artix Kreiger (talk) 15:11, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Draft:Rutgers Health]] 

message: I did some additions to make it more general but I wanted input on the last two paragraphs. Should they be removed they are very specific. Also should study abroad be merged into student life or Academics? I don't think it should be its own category.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aep000 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Study abroad is too specific 

message: While there is a debate whether warren is more famous than the chef Mario Batali I make argument that Batali is more famous especially with the latest news and the fact he's considered one of the most famous chefs in the world. Warren while famous is more know only by those in politics. If googling both names Batali appears more prominently in search results as in top 10 of famous chefs while warren is not as famous in terms of us senators. This could change in future but presently Batali is more famous despite being controversial. Also warren attended the law school for one or two years or so and was not really very closely associated with school of rutgers as batali was. So as it currently stands I make argument since Batali is still slightly more famous he remains in notable figures.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raja1011 (talk • contribs) 18:15, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which figures are displayed as famous alumni 

message: Raja1011 is insisting that the "History" section, specifically the concluding "Today" section, include this paragraph:
Rutgers celebrated its 250th anniversary in 2016. On May 15 President Barack Obama became first sitting president to speak at the university's commencement.[32] The university held a variety of celebrations, academic programs, and commemorative events which culminated on the 250th anniversary date, November 10, 2016. Rutgers invited multiple notable alumni from around the world to the celebration. Today Rutgers enjoys global influence with alumni rooted around the globe. Rutgers also has close ties to figures who grew up or continue to live in New Jersey with notable figures such as Chris Christie, justices Antonin Scalia and Samuel Alito, and Alice Waters each having a parent who attended the institution.
First, all of this information is unsourced; the superscript 32 is just that - a superscript - and not an actual link to a reference. Even if one or more references were added this still doesn't seem like information that rises to the level of inclusion in an already-long article; the mention of a sitting president delivering the commencement address is the one bit of information that may still be worth including.
Second, the last two sentences about the university "global influence with alumni rooted around the globe" are completely irrelevant in a discussion of the university's history.  Moreover the sentence isn't even discussing alumni but people who "[had] a parent who attended the institution!"  It's really bad writing ("alumni rooted around the globe" - really?) and POV nonsense. ElKevbo (talk) 04:11, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  250th anniversary and alumni information in "History" section 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:51, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: increase article protection from semi-protection to extended confirmed protection due to persistent efforts to add opinionated sections that semi-protection has failed to prevent Ronak19 (talk) 20:06, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Request page protection changes at WP:RFPP RudolfRed (talk) 20:33, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2021 

message: Hello , you recently reverted an edit I made to the short description of this article, without providing an explanation. I shortened the s/d to what I considered to be its bare essentials, as an s/d should be. Why did you undo this? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 04:31, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think its important to capture the multi-campus aspect in the description due to how RU is organized, and it seemed like an unnecessary edit. I've gone back and shortened it. -Kai445 (talk) 14:06, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit revert 

message: Someone added Mr. Magoo as an alumnus.
 cartoon character Mr Magoo;  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smartinez411 (talk • contribs) 15:43, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mr. Magoo 

message: Robert Mulcahy, the former Rutgers athletic director, died on February 7th. Any help improving the article would be appreciated. Thriley (talk) 19:26, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robert Mulcahy