Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive 31

message: Folks, I inadvertantly semiprotected this article when it should have been fully protected. Sorry. Now, to all those POV-pushers and reverters: will you please take this to the talk page first? - Ta bu shi da yu 15:03, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oops 

message: Does anyone know anything about Hitler being part Jewish? seems sort of odd that a jew would go around killing jews, but I guess it's not that odd considering what the jews in Israel are doing to the jews in Palestine right now =(
--RunawayToKelly 06:53, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Flattery will get you nowhere. --Golbez 07:02, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: RunawayToKelly has some racial epithets strewn about his personal talk page and claims to be an "Internet Troll".  I think he is handily ignored - banned would be better. Michael Dorosh 07:05, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: GNAA=Troll, self described. Wyss 07:28, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Since answering Runaway is pointless, I only say: "Welcome back, Wyss". Str1977 10:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks :) Meanwhile,  has been blocked indefinitely as a troll account. Wyss 10:19, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Yep and the article itself debunks this old propaganda saw. Anyway remember, everything imaginable has been written about AH, even that he's currently on some planet light years away planning on conquering the earth. Quoting some nut (or sloppy author trying to come up with yet another AH book that'll sell, never mind tiresome concerns about scholarship) isn't enough for a citation in the article. Verifiability is all that matters and there is zero evidence AH was Jewish. Wyss 07:33, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I know it doesn't mean much but I remember from school that Adolf's only relation to Judaism was through a Nanny he had when he was a child. I could confirm this by tommorow p.m if that helps.jstupple7 02:04, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish? 

message: *I acknowledge different theoretical perspectives (liberal, Marxist, social democratic,  and conservative), inevitably giving rise to rival generic models. However, ‘fascism’ (small ‘f’, as large ‘F’ is conventionally reserved for the original Italian Fascism) has been widely accepted as a generic term by most historians and writers on political ideology and history, and this is clearly not going to change; the majority of scholars in the field agree that there is substance to warrant such usage. Due to its huge historical impact and brutality, the German National Socialist movement and regime has received the most intensive study, both in its own right and as a possible variety of fascism. But in spite of this Mussolini’s regime remains something of an exemplar for international fascism.
*I acknowledge differences between Nazism and Italian Fascism. Who doesn’t?  I addressed this point in some detail already, stemming both from distinct fascist routes reflective of national differences both for the origins of the differences and the structural political, economic and cultural differences. For instanced there was less popular participation and enthusiasm for the wars (Ethiopia, and Spanish Civil War).  In fact large portions of the population were very cynical; fascists and Mussolini were often regarded privately as ridiculous, including all the military swagger, although the idea of Italy becoming a more powerful, influential had appeal. Italy was a nation weak in resources while Nazi Germany possessed the material and human resources to make it potentially the most powerful state in Europe. Italian fascism was still also racist, in ethnocentric and cultural terms, as the use of chemical warfare against the Abyssinians in 1935 showed.  It was not for a lack of want that the  ‘fascistization’ was more insidious in Germany, than Italy. This had to do with restraints and differences external to its own ideology. The core of the ideology, its historical roots and its core political goals remained basically the same, despite the differences.
The Nazi obsession with a racialism not only afflicted the German Nazis, but also several eastern European nationalist and fascist movements including those in Croatia, Slovakia, Serbia, Lithuania, Romania, Bulgaria, and the Ukraine. Anti-Jewish bigotry was rampant in all of these racialist movements, as was the idea of a link between Jewish financiers and Marxists.
I disagree that Rousseau can be said to be the father of Totalitarianism.  In fact I disagree that totalitarianism is even possible in a strict sense, outside of works of fiction.  Maybe approximations in some ways, best left understood in relative, rather than absolute terms. The Nazi state was massively authoritarian, but was less than ‘total’ in its control. The structuralists/functionalists (essentially a materialist) analysis of historians has largely replaced the more idealist   [[[Great Man theory of history ]] outlook, and with some scholars even seeing Hitler as a comparatively weak dictator. While I don’t agree, I do think these methodological approach is more accurate and useful, instead of the almost cartoonish picture that absolute totalitarianism. Even Stalin’s totalitarianism in the Soviet Union was not absolute. I think its best left in fictional accounts of Oceania in 1984. character, although possessing totalitarian aspects.
The work on totalitarianism (Carl J. Friedrich and Zbigniew K. Brzezinski, following that of Arendt), was was soon seen to be inadequate. There’s been a number of serious objections were raised to the applicability it’s criteria to any regimes, fascist or not. The term totalitarian proved to have even more considerable theoretical difficulty than fascist. And today Totalitarianism remains a vague and largely untestable hypothesis, hotly disputed and contested, much more so than fascism itself. To quote,  ‘.. the very best that Friedrich and Brzezinski offered was a partial and primitive taxonomic scheme and some schematic accounts of some of the seemingly necessary and contingent conditions for the manifestations of some of the species, or subspecific, properties with which they were concerned… we neither know which traits of totalitarianism might be “essential” or “necessary,” nor can we argue with any confidence that the shared similarities between totalitarianisms mean anything “significant.” …. What we do not have is a general theory of Fascism (much less a general theory of totalitarianism). (A. J. Gregor, 1998, pp. 216-219 and 226-237). 
But, this step backwards has not stopped a post-cold war resurgence of right wing Eastern European writing on the totalitarian theme – most of which remains as speculative and unproven as were its 1950s predecessors. Long ago Frederic J. Fleron Jr. remarked that it has become little more than negative label on a for a “bad”system of government’. - examples of which include Sparta, the Empire of Diocletian and Calvin’s Geneva. (cf. ‘Soviet Area Studies and the Social Sciences: Some Methodological Problems in Communist Studies’ Soviet Studies, 19/3: 1968, p. 313.) Arendt’s picture of totalitarianism was far too simplistic and she eventually concluded that her definition could not apply to the Soviet Union, which she ultimately referred to as a ‘one-party state’. Arguably the most devastating single attack on the totalitarian model of fascism came from Wolfgang Sauer’s article ‘National Socialism: Totalitarianism or Fascism?’ (American Historical  Review, 73:2 December: 1967). In anycase 'Totalitarianism' not a clean’ scholarly concept, serving instead as an ideological instrument; its impossible to treat it as 'neutral' scholarly analytical tool. Notice that this doesnt have anything to do with favoring communism or Marxism. Its rejection is,though, related to an adoption of a materialist method that is shared by Marxism, which played a big role in developing the social sciences in this way, which informs to some degree the rejection of idealist, organic, theories of the state such as totalitarianism. But, suggesting that one is against the use of this concept because one is really a commie is a little silly. Red baiting is no longer in vougue. :) 
Back Rousseau and the French Revolution. I say that it’s more accurate to think of it as one the fathers of all modern social theories; its progeny has thus been called Modernism. Indeed its the reaction to it gives us our modern ideologies. That is, the response to the French Revolution and Rousseau, by Hegel, Marx, and others, that poured into an intellectual stew that served us Marxism, socialism, national socialism, fascism, modern liberalism, modern conservatism, communism, depending on nature of the reaction.  The democratic notions embodied in liberalism and Marxism was a positive reaction and development whereas fascism was a reaction against it in general and in particular against Marxism. This is what I meant.  
"Fascism is reaction," said Mussolini, but reaction to what? The reactionary movement following World War I was based on a rejection of the social theories that formed the basis of the 1789 French Revolution, and whose early formulations in this country had a major influence on our Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights. Fascists particularly loathed the social theories of the French Revolution and its slogan: "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity." 
*Liberty from oppressive government intervention; the liberty to cast a vote in a system in which the majority ruled but the minority retained certain inalienable rights. 
*Equality in the sense of civic equality, egalitarianism, the notion that while people differ, they all should stand equal in the eyes of the law. 
*Fraternity in the sense of the brotherhood of mankind. That all women and men, the old and the young, the infirm and the healthy, the rich and the poor, share a spark of humanity that must be cherished on a level above that of the law, and this binds us all together. 
Benito Mussolini proclaimed, "Fascism, which was not afraid to call itself reactionary... does not hesitate to call itself illiberal and anti-liberal." 
Modern historians of national culture and ideology like G. L. Mosse make this point, located fascism as part of a much longer European ‘revolt against reason’ and Enlightenment values characteristic of both Italian and German history.
The same point is made in Sternhell, "Modernity and Its Enemies: From the Revolt against the Enlightenment to the Undermining of Democracy," “The Enlightenment was the age of criticism....The principal ideas of the modern age--progress, revolution, liberty, democracy--ensued from criticism. It was the rational criticism of certitudes and traditional values--and in the first place religion--which produced the theory of the rights of man, the primacy of the individual with regard to society....It was the rational criticism of the existing order which allowed society to be conceived as an aggregate of individuals and the state as an instrument in the hands of the individual.  The Intellectual Revolt against Liberal Democracy, 1870-1945, ad. Zeev Sternhell (Jerusalem: Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities, 1996), 12.
"Fascist Romanticism is hatred of the modern world and nostalgia for an organic community of the past…” A prime example is the German Nazis' longing for "the old tribal and feudal Germany, for traditional peasant life in opposition to the big city, it assert that the German Nazi vilification "of the modern world and nostalgia for an organic community of the past" is typically fascist. See ibid., 56-57, 60-63, 69-72.
Also See Eric Hobsbawm, Nations and Nationalism since 1780: Program, Myth, Reality (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1990); and H. Stuart Hughes, Consciousness and Society: The Reorientation of European Social Thought, 1890-1930 (New York: Vintage Books, 1958) About  the birth of democracy in the wake of the Enlightenment and the French Revolution of 1789, and the subsequent globalization of capitalism, that supports my claims. 
“Scholars now recognize the role of fascism in the emergence of anti-Enlightenment movements opposed to the democratic tradition that was the heritage of Enlightenment thought.  Indeed, the rise of fascism in Europe responded to a widespread search for spiritual values and "organic" institutions capable of counteracting what was considered the corrosive effects of rationalism (and capitalism) on the body politic. As Pierre Birnbaum notes, democracy's opponents repudiated the Enlightenment principle of a rationalism inherent in human nature and the legitimizing principle of "one man, one vote."  In its stead they posited ethnic, regional, and religious forms of national identity, antithetical to political democracy's universalist and rationalist precepts.  See Pierre Birnbaum, "Catholic Identity, Universal Suffrage and 'Doctrines of Hatred,'" in The Intellectual Revolt against Liberal Democracy, 1870-1945, ad. Zeev Sternhell (Jerusalem: Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities, 1996), 233-51.
Fascists, though opposed to Enlightenment ideals were eager to absorb those aspects of modernity that could be reconfigured within their antirational concept of national identity. Thus, historian Jeffrey Herf has documented the Nazis' thorough acceptance of modern industrialism, which has led him to coin the term "reactionary modernism" to describe those thinkers and ideologues under the Weimer Republic and the Third Reich "who rejected liberal democracy and the legacy of the Enlightenment, yet simultaneously embraced the modern technology of the second industrial revolution."  See Jeffrey Herf, "Reactionary Modernism Reconsidered: Modernity, the West and the Nazis," in Sternhell (as in n. 8), 131-58; and idem, Reactionary Modernism: Technology, Culture, and Politics in Weimar and the Third Reich (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1984). Herf's book considers the simultaneous championing of "volkish ideology," "romantic irrationalist ideas," and "modern technology" on the part of such thinkers as Oswald Spengler, Ernst Junger, and Carl Schmitt, Nazi ideologues Goebbels and Hitler. 
To contravene this new social and political order, the Enlightenment's critics turned to alternative philosophical strands, from which they constructed new social systems attuned to the Industrial Revolution yet opposed to the democratic tradition. Antirationalist philosophers and activists such as Maurice Barres, Georges Sorel, and Henri Bergson, antidemocratic sociologists like Gustave Le Bon and Vilfredo Pareto, and racial theorists like Arthur de Gobineau inspired the anti-Semitic blood and soil politics of the Nazis, the creation of fascist myths under Mussolini, the socioeconomics of corporatism, and the theatrical mass politics of fascist regimes and movements throughout Europe. Moreover, concepts and myths were created to reflect  regeneration, spiritualism, and primitivism, integrated into the anti-Enlightenment pantheon of fascist values. Over the course of the 1990s historians of fascism began probing this cultural matrix. 
By claiming that fascism possessed a "mythic core" Griffin highlights the irrationalism behind fascist ideology and the function of myths as motivating factors among fascism's adherents. He turns to the theory of myth propounded by French political theorist Georges Sorel (1847-1922) to define the fascists' specialized use of this concept--an appropriate association, given Mussolini's self-professed debt to the author of Reflections on Violence (1908). Sorel concluded that the revolutionary transformations instigated by religious sects and political movements arise from the emotive impact of their core myths, defined as those visionary principles that inspire immediate action. For Sorel, myths were decidedly instrumental; rather than providing people with a social blueprint for a future to be created incrementally through political reform and rational planning, myths presented the public with a visionary ideal whose stark contrast with present reality would agitate the masses. In his Reflections on V iolence, Sorel underscored the emotive and antirational nature of myth by defining it as "a body of images capable of evoking all the sentiments which correspond to the different manifestations of the War undertaken by socialism against modern society." Nazi ideology was to supply values that would facilitate the nation's rebirth, pointing out that "the Nazis no more wanted to return Germany to the period of the Volkswanderugen (tribal migrations) or the Holy Roman Empire than the [Italian] fascists wanted to return literally to the age of the Romans or the Renaissance." See Roger Griffin, The Nature of Fascism (London: Pinter, 1991; reprint, London: Routledge, 1993), See Jeffrey Herf, "Reactionary Modernism Reconsidered: Modernity, the West and the Nazis," in Sternhell, 131-58; and idem, Reactionary Modernism: Technology, Culture, and Politics in Weimar and the Third Reich (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1984). Herf's book considers the simultaneous championing of "volkish ideology," "romantic irrationalist ideas," and "modern technology" on the part of such thinkers as Oswald Spengler, Ernst Junger, and Carl Schmitt, Nazi ideologues Goebbels and Hitler. In Herf's words, "The reactionary modernists were German nationalists who turned the revolt against materialism away from backward-looking pastoralism.... They saw in technology a thing of beauty, a product of German creativity rather than of Jewish commercialism and internationalism." (Herf [as in n. 8], 134).  Central is the idea  "of the myth of renewal" to this "alternative" modernism in fascist ideology. See Roger Griffin, The Nature of Fascism (London: Pinter, 1991; reprint, London: Routledge, 1993), 47 (page references are to the reprint). Jaskot's book is indicative o f a new trend in fascist studies that focuses on the competition among various Nazi organizations for economic and cultural hegemony under the Third Reich
Griffin also sees racist eugenics as an aspect of its palingenetic or regenerative ultranationalist orientation. "Espousing "blood and soil" tribalism even as it constructed autobahns, engineered the Volkswagen, and developed advanced methods of factory organization, the Nazi regime--like its Italian counterpart and fascist movements in France--looked to both a mythic past and a technological future in a manner that seems highly contradictory."
Fascism is a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultra-nationalism. (p. 26)".
So, we see that the volkish aspect of Fascism are just the paricular varient expression that took form in Nazism. The key here is that fascism is simply the most virulent form of right-wing populism. Not all right-wing populist groups are fascist, but all Fascist groups use right-wing populist rhetoric. They work together in a complex dynamic of demonization and scapegoating leading to ethnocentric repression that often accompanies right-wing populist movements.
Volkish thinkers are one part of this in Nazi Germany. They embraced all things German—the medieval past, the German landscape, the simple peasant, the village— and denounced the humanist tradition as alien to the German soul.
Volkish thinkers abhorred almost everything about modern society—industrialization, urbanization, materialism, party politics, and class conflicts. Capitalism, impersonal and rationalized, destroyed ancient social forms and virtues and alienated people from themselves and each other. Liberalism fostered materialism, individualism and a rational-scientific outlook all of which separated Germans from the true genius, the peculiar character, the soul of the German nation.
The peasant, in close touch with the soil, was believed to be most in touch with this German soul. Urbanization was breaking this link with the soil and thus was a grave danger to the future of the German nation. Germans who lived in cities were urged to return as often and as much as possible to rural areas to get in touch with this real source of German identity and distinctiveness. The idea of lebensraum and the settlement of German farmers in the east, which was picked up and amplified by the Nazis, were based upon this idea of returning as many Germans as possible to agriculture and the connection with the land.
Volkish thinkers yearned to restore the sense of community that they believed existed before industrialization. Only by identifying with their sacred soil and sacred traditions would Germans escape from the rootlessness and alienation of modern industrial society. A return to roots would restore authenticity to life and stimulate creativity. Only then could the different classes band together in an ‘organic’ unity.
Volkish thinkers were strongly attracted to racist doctrines which held that race was the key history. A race retained its vigor and achieved greatness when it maintained its purity; intermarriage was a contamination that resulted in genetic, cultural and military decline. Volkish thinkers claimed that the ‘German race’ was purer than, and therefore superior to, all other races. They claimed that the Germans were descendants of ancient Aryans, the only descendants who had maintained their purity. 
This is where racism naturally ties it Imperialism  (which btw, is an essential part of the totalitarian model, so its odd that on one hand those that support the Totalitarian label reject describing it as imperialism (Arendt would disagree). Also, anti-Semitism was a very prominent feature of Volkish thought. Some Volkish thinkers wanted a German religion, different from Christianity. Others wanted to harmonize Christianity with ancient Germanic traditions; this was linked with a determination to expunge ‘Jewish’ elements from Christianity.
I think it might help if you if you realize that Fascist ideas constituted a vague ideology rather than, i.e. Marxist-Leninism, an intellectual coherent dialectic. Thus, we are dealing here, not with a precise ideology, but with the loosely formulated aspirations and inchoate impulses, which motivated the fascist movements, but whose elements can be grasps sufficiently for identification. 
It’s no accident that Fascism in all its variants (Nazism) display anti-modernism or of social pathological processes in the paths of development it followed. Its raw materials were the forces of militarism, racism, chauvinism, charismatic leadership, populist nationalism, fears that the nation or civilization as a whole was being undermined by the forces of decadence, deep anxiety about the modern age and longings for a new era to begin---all these active ingredients are made possible in contemporary history, forged together into popular, and even mass movements in the inter-war period for both fascism and nazism, and allowed them to eventually to erect a new type of single party state, as a  conjuncture of acute socio-political tensions resulting directly or indirectly from the First World War and the Russian Revolution.
To sum up, since the 1960’s the case was strongly made that fascism was in fact a genuine ideology, with its origins and the intellectual revolt against liberalism, rationalism, industrialization and urbanization of the nineteenth century, followed by communism and democracy in the twentieth. Beginning with Ernst Nolte’s ‘resistance to transcendence’ definition, a range of ideologically defined generic models was constructed insisting that fascism can be core defined in terms of its ideas and beliefs. [Nolte, 1966; Gregor, 1969.] The 1970s and ‘80s a number of liberal historians (Renzo De Felice (later moved right), Zeev Sternhell, George L. Mosse, and Stanley Payne) followed up this ideological and historical line of enquiry and established as an accepted fact that generic fascism could be defined, at least in part, through its shared core beliefs. By the early 1990s a second generation of liberal idealist scholars were building upon these earlier works with Roger Griffin’s The Nature of Fascism published in 1991, followed by Roger Eatwell’s article: ‘Towards and new Model of Generic Fascism.’ in 1992.
Thus, Fascism and Nazism, despite their differences, can be viewed as alternative forms of fascist route to modernization. Both were attempts to escape from a perceived spiritual and material crisis in Italy and Germany, with the creation of a new society.  Italian Fascism had always been imbued with the modernization myth. Nazi Germany's "reactionary modernism" likewise reflected in Hitler’s Table Talk of nazi’s eventual desire to turn back the clock, in a de-urbanized society. Giovanni33 20:15, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fascism, Totalitarianism, response to Str1977 post above

message: Hey folks, I just noticed that the SA link at the end of "The rebuilding of the party" links to the SA disambiguation page, when it probably should lead to the Sturmabteilung page.  Since I can't fix it myself, I thought I'd note it so someone wiser and more powerful than I could fix it quick.  Thanks. Cerealkiller13 20:11, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad Link 

message: Could somebody sub-cat him from :suicides to :Politicians who committed suicide for me?  Much thanks, we're trying to clean up the :suicides category. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 11:31, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Who would do that for Sherucij? I doubt anybody would object. Agathoclea 20:40, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Excuse me while I step over the edit war

message: no one knows for sure what happened to hitler in the end. The current version only includes 1 theory: 
"Hitler committed suicide in the Führerbunker on April 30, 1945 by means of a self-delivered shot to the head (it is likely he simultaneously bit into a cyanide ampoule). Hitler's body and that of Eva Braun (his long-term mistress whom he had married the day before) were put in a bomb crater, partially burned with petrol by Führerbunker aides and hastily buried in the Chancellory garden as Russian shells poured down and Red Army infantry continued to advance only two or three hundred metres away.
When Russian forces reached the Chancellory they found his body and an autopsy was performed using dental records (and German dental assistants who were familiar with them) to confirm the identification. To avoid any possibility of creating a potential shrine the remains of Hitler and Braun were repeatedly moved, then secretly buried by SMERSH at their new headquarters in Magdeburg. In April 1970, when the facility was about to be turned over to the East German government, the remains were reportedly exhumed, thoroughly cremated, and the ashes finally dumped unceremoniously into the Elbe."
I think it should be changed to something like: "There are many theories as to what happened to hitler next. though some believe he escaped most people agree that hitler committed suicide in the bunker (along with Eva Braun). his body was burnt by the soviets so as not to create a shrine for neo-nazis)."
::The overwhelming historical consensus is the version carried by the article. Please don't confuse pop fiction and unscholarly, fringe speculation with the documented record. Wyss 17:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, don't confuse missdocumentation with "pop fiction". There is no capital proof of the found scorched body to be really Hitler's.--Lacrymology 14:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  hitler's death 

message: This article has been protected for a ridiculously long period.  Is there any reason why you chaps cannot be trusted to, you know (I almost feel scared to use the word) edit the article? --Tony Sidaway 02:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unprotecting?

message: Do we really need such a circumstantial sentence heading the "childhood ..." section:
:"Adolf Hitler was born on April 20, 1889, at Braunau am Inn, Austria, a small town 90 km (55 miles) west of Linz in the province of Upper Austria, on the bank of the River Inn, which formed the border between Germany and what was then Austria-Hungary."
I propose the following version:
:"Adolf Hitler was born on April 20, 1889, at Braunau am Inn, Austria, a small town in Upper Austria, on the border to Germany."
Thoughts? Str1977 (smile back) 09:52, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Brauau

message: What's this doing here??? --Sunfazer (talk) 10:19, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Adolf Hitler and the Briefs Controversy

message: It is sad but I guess we need to semi-protect again - Roha is running wild again. Str1977 (smile back) 11:34, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've semi-protected. Not an ideal solution, but ROHA wasn't by any means the only one making mischief in the last twelve hours. AnnH ♫ 11:51, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Semi-protection

message: I propose to put a colour pic to the infobox, also the current if exists. Brandmeister 14:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colour picture 

message: See my comments on section 26 in this page 
--Haham hanuka 17:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well that and being consistent. The Japanese Empire was as brutal as the Third Reich but there's no opening paragraph mention of it on the Empire of Japan entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_empire, nor on any of the related Japanese Prime Minister pages nor in the opening of the Hirohito page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showa_Emperor. To me this suggests a eurocentric approach which verges on the POV, and the acceptance that our objectivity is limited by our geography. 
Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#War_crimes
"It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised. The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians [i.e. Soviet citizens]; the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese. Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale, though Japan plundered more, over a longer period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as forced labourers — and, in the case of the Japanese, as [forced] prostitutes for front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not Russia) you faced a 4 % chance of not surviving the war; [by comparison] the death rate for Allied POWs held by the Japanese was nearly 30 %." PhilipPage 23:48, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vote (Important!) 

message: *--Haham hanuka 17:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Remove death toll from intro

message: * Agathoclea 18:00, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well that and being consistent. The Japanese Empire was as brutal as the Third Reich but there's no opening paragraph mention of it on the Empire of Japan entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_empire, nor on any of the related Japanese Prime Minister pages nor in the opening of the Hirohito page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showa_Emperor. To me this suggests a eurocentric approach which verges on the POV, and the acceptance that our objectivity is limited by our geography. 
Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#War_crimes
"It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised. The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians [i.e. Soviet citizens]; the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese. Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale, though Japan plundered more, over a longer period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as forced labourers — and, in the case of the Japanese, as [forced] prostitutes for front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not Russia) you faced a 4 % chance of not surviving the war; [by comparison] the death rate for Allied POWs held by the Japanese was nearly 30 %." PhilipPage 23:48, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't remove

message: Is there a name for the type of moustache that Hitler sported? His name is mentioned in the moustache page but the style of moustache isn't, and I'm looking for this info to describe a Japanese comedian who sports a similar moustache (I'd rather not say that he's copying Hitler).  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  01:57, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What kind of moustache?

message: who cares about nuetrality??? No one wants to listen to anyone who says that Hitler was good. Wikipedia has facts right? Fact: Hitler=Evil
He doesnt deserve nuetrality. unsigned by 68.116.187.228
Wikipedia is about neutrality, for one. Without neutrality, history becomes skewed and incorrect. Wikipedia strives for the truth in all matters.
Secondly, your opinion on Hitler may not be the same as another's opinion on Hitler. Just because you hate him, doesn't mean another person doesn't love him.Burnthetown 08:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a matter of wheather he 'deserves' neutrality or not. Every article in WP gets neutrality no matter what the writer's opinion is. It's an encyclopedia. Have you ever seen an encyclopedia with Hitler=Evil in it? St jimmy 10:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose it could be included as a linguistic reference.  That is, when someone is accused of "being a little Hitler", they are being called evil. StuRat 18:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But this isn't a dictionary. Burnthetown 19:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And even then I don't think "Little Hitler" is primarily "Evil" but rather "Dictatorial" mostly used when someone overstretches the authority given to him. Agathoclea 20:28, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Put it in wikitionarySt jimmy 10:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That would need some more research first. Until then enjoy this. Agathoclea 11:02, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I love it! St jimmy 12:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Anti-WP comment

message: Hitler was a very well-known ballroom dancer in his time... why isn't this included in the article? Suebee stalker 09:32, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because no source was provided for this info?Michael Dorosh 20:01, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Did he win any competitions? I am a well-known ballroom dancer by the people that know me - I don't even have an article. Agathoclea 09:48, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You didn't lead a nation to taking over Europe and nearly beating all world powers. Famous people have their hobbies in their biographies, and Hitler is arguably the most famous individual in history. He wasn't a great painter, but it is still important that he was interested in painting. That being said, I have yet to find anything on his ballroom dancing. Burnthetown 19:55, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Grin - That was actually the point I was trying to make - "Was he noted for it" - With the pictures it was easy - we can enjoy (or not) them on the page. Agathoclea 20:25, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ballroom dancing