Talk:Saint Boniface

message: Proposal to change article name from saint Boniface to Boniface in line with general approach. Contaldo80 (talk) 21:07, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Name change 

message: *Thanks, Malcolm! --—Preceding unsigned comment added by Conversion script (talk • contribs) 
*Inserted a better picture of Boniface--216.120.213.209 15:33, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Hello

message: "He is regarded as the First European". What nonsense. By whom? Only reference is to the St Boniface website which says he is "described as The First European" but gives no source (and, indeed, none of the links work). Deleted this statement. Emeraude 16:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That claim is just absurd.  Europe and Europeans existed before.  Only the predominant religion changed from time to time.--Bk1 168 (talk) 21:54, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  First European 

message: The article reads "He (Boniface) wrote the first Latin grammar produced in England." Does his predate Tatwine's? Tatwine was a contemporary, and was probably older than Boniface. So far as I know, there is no solid date for either one' grammar, so it would seem impossible to say which one was first. Boniface's was the first anywhere to include full conjugations of of all the classes of verbs. Dsmdgold (talk) 03:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Grammar 

message: The article reads as if it is certain that Boniface's birthplace was Crediton.  Although this has been asserted by modern writers it is by no means certain from his "Life". Around 672 the area was possibly still in British hands and Boniface had to obtain king Ine's sanction to travel.  Adresia (talk) 08:20, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Theologians maybe, but I have yet to see a historian care about Boniface after the 19th century, and quite sincerely theologians are the last people I expect historical insight from. We know from welsh genealogies that the area around the Parrett was still held by the Britons in the 7th century (the local petty kings were related to the kings of Pengwern). Based on Draper's Dorset (2003), the conquest of Dorset was barely finished in the 7th century. The Exeter area is unlikely to have fallen before the 8th based on the time of diocese charters; the city was still majority breton by the 10th. Peonnum and Longphort, both in east Somerset, were in the 650s and 710s respectively (Peonnum's likely location is so far east it's almost Wiltshire). There is no way Crediton was in any way part of Wessex before that point. 216.252.76.39 (talk) 04:24, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: For the sake of another point against; the ASC states that Peonnum pushed the border to the Parrett ("as far as the Parrett" in modern english translations). 216.252.73.116 (talk) 14:56, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Birthplace

message: The line at the end of the section Legends is not properly cited: "This account is completely legendary (and probably later than the Middle Ages) and has no credible authority in any of the vitae or later biographies." 
There needs to be a reference to this statement before it can be considered fact.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nwadlit (talk • contribs) 06:32, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely the fact that Christmas trees didn't appear until | about 1000 years after his time is a good indication? 219.88.68.195 (talk) 06:01, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Legend" of the Christmas Tree? 

message: I took a history class where the professor said that Boniface was very good friends with a woman named "Leafgyld" and in fact asked to be buried next to her, but of course, never was. Is this true?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.190.21.50 (talk) 04:00, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leafgyld 

message: It says that Boniface killed a man just before going on his missionary expedition to Frisia. I can find no source to this that isn't a copy of the Wikipedia page, if someone could please confirm this with an actual source or remove it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.49.81.62 (talk) 00:58, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Killed a man? 

message: I would request that this article be reviewed for moderate bias:
"According to the vitae Boniface felled the Donar Oak, Latinized by Willibald as "Jupiter's oak," near the present-day town of Fritzlar in northern Hesse. According to his early biographer Willibald, Boniface started to chop the oak down, when suddenly a great wind, as if by miracle, blew the ancient oak over. When the god did not strike him down, the people were amazed and converted to Christianity. He built a chapel dedicated to Saint Peter from its wood at the site[13]--the chapel was the beginning of the monastery in Fritzlar. This account from the vita is stylized to portray Boniface as a singular character who alone acts to root out paganism. Lutz von Padberg and others point out that what the vitae leave out is that the action was most likely well-prepared and widely publicized in advance for maximum effect, and that Boniface had little reason to fear for his personal safety since the Frankish fortified settlement of Büraburg was nearby.[14] According to Willibald, Boniface later had a church with an attached monastery built in Fritzlar,[15] on the site of the previously built chapel, according to tradition.[16]"
Maybe use more objective language from "Lutz von Padberg" on? Objective language was used so well in the first half of the paragraph, showing what Catholic Church teaching believes, without implying that Wikipedia itself believes it. But reading the second half of the paragraph, I would come to the conclusion that Wikipedia is actually favoring this angle of the story, whereas they should remain balanced and removed, as an encyclopedia should.
Such modifiers that could help in improving this language might be "according," such as is done in the first half of the paragraph:
"According to Lutz von Padberg"
or, if you don't want to use the same word too often, you could add variety with:
"Lutz von Padberg and others believe that the vitae left out was that..."
"Point out" is too preferential & conclusive. It makes it sound like what they have pointed out is true simply because they have "pointed it out."
And again, there is no modifier. Maybe something like:
"Lutz von Padverg and others believe that what the vitae might have left out is that the..."
Please just persevere as you always do to remain objective. Every time bias is found, its troubling for those who want to give Wikipedia a chance.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.193.224.130 (talk) 14:30, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please Provide More Objectivity. 

message: The lead could benefit from a phonetic spelling or IPA of Boniface's name in English for non-natives. Is it pronounced like "bonny face"? Or is it closer to Latin/Italian/Romance, as something akin to "bawny faw-chay"? --37.82.174.247 (talk) 14:50, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  English pronunciation 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
* Support (for now).  "Saint" clearly has to go. But I am not sure plain "Boniface" is enough.  I have a little trepidation on the lack of disambiguation.  I'd be more comfortable with "Boniface of Mainz". Walrasiad (talk) 03:33, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Saint Boniface (Latin: Bonifatius) (c. 675? – 5 June 754), born Winfrid, Wynfrith, or Wynfryth in the kingdom of Wessex, probably at Crediton, was an Anglo-Saxon missionary who propagated Christianity in the Frankish Empire during the 8th century. He is the patron saint of Germany, the first archbishop of Mainz and the "Apostle of the Germans". He was killed in Frisia in 754, along with 52 others. His remains were returned to Fulda, where they rest in a sarcophagus which became a site of pilgrimage. Facts about Boniface's life and death as well as his work became widely known, since there is a wealth of material available—a number of vitae, especially the near-contemporary Vita Bonifatii auctore Willibaldi, and legal documents, possibly some sermons, and above all his correspondence.
Norman F. Cantor notes the three roles Boniface played that made him "one of the truly outstanding creators of the first Europe, as the apostle of Germany, the reformer of the Frankish church, and the chief fomentor of the alliance between the papacy and the Carolingian family."[1] Through his efforts to reorganize and regulate the church of the Franks, he helped shape Western Christianity, and many of the dioceses he proposed remain until today. After his martyrdom, he was quickly hailed as a saint in Fulda and other areas in Germany and in England. His cult is still notably strong today. Boniface is celebrated (and criticized)[2] as a missionary; he is regarded as a unifier of Europe, and he is seen (mainly by Catholics) as a German national figure.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.144.208.53 (talk) 09:16, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saint Boniface 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I miss a section on criticism.--Bk1 168 (talk) 21:55, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism 

message: Forewords his Romishname (Boniface) yet amazingly censors his Godsgiven English name - sundry spelt, Wynfrid/Wynfrith and haps others kinds of spellings.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:9C97:5D01:3D6F:1D5C:17EA:E2E6 (talk) 08:04, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  How on earth is Boniface his original ENGLISH name Wynfrid/Wynfrith left out! 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: not moved   Calidum 18:51, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Saint Boniface →  – Per the clergy guideline WP:NCWC that discourages the use of 'Saint' unless it is necessary and the only viable option for disambiguation. ~ Iskandar323 (talk) 19:15, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is probably primary topic for "Saint Boniface", but I wouldn't consider it for plain "Boniface". Walrasiad (talk) 02:02, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 13 April 2022