Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Falun Gong

message: ==== Statement by uninvolved user Penwhale ====
One has to realize that FLG is itself a controversial topic. Unfortunately, this does not help the fact that we have to maintain neutrality (which is one of the pillar of Wikipedia). Based on the action-reaction, I propose a rename of the case to Falun Gong which is more appropriate, as I believe we need to look at actions from both sides, based on personal attacks towards Samuel. - Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 09:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The proposed solution to Samuel Luo is not enough. I think he should be permanently banned for inserting egregious and offensive POV to Wikipedia. Banning Samuel Luo would prevent him to further engage with this POV-laden smear campaign. Other editors should be treated more leniently, though. WooyiTalk, Editor review 20:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Addendum: I just found out about the egregious revert warring committed by User:Jsw663, probably the arbitrators should consider strong action to admonish him as well. WooyiTalk, Editor review 04:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: User:HappyInGeneral's image insertion, I believe, is justified because it's a well-sourced image, and it well illustrates the article. Also, I don't believe User:Mcconn has engaged in any "war" based on evidence, so arbitrators should rescind the unjustified penalties on him. WooyiTalk, Editor review 00:40, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Statements by uninvolved editors 

message: One has to realize that FLG is itself a controversial topic. Unfortunately, this does not help the fact that we have to maintain neutrality (which is one of the pillar of Wikipedia). Based on the action-reaction, I propose a rename of the case to Falun Gong which is more appropriate, as I believe we need to look at actions from both sides, based on personal attacks towards Samuel. - Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 09:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by uninvolved user Penwhale 

message: I used to be active on this page but have since given up. Arbitrators, please be aware that this is NOT a case on a single user, but a case on the entire plethora of FLG-related pages and articles. As such, this case WILL be used as "evidence" favoring inclusion of POV material and WILL hugely affect the "balance of power" heretofore more-or-less precariously maintained. This is a political case, NOT a user conduct case. -- 我♥中國 20:44, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Statement by more-or-less currently uninvolved user Miborovsky

message: The account User:Samuel Luo clearly breaches conflict of interest in this case. He admit that he runs an anti-Falun Gong website . He should refrain from editing Falun Gong related articles. The current Chinese regime has persecuted Falun Gong, and this is an undisputed fact. In editing these articles NPOV is needed. Wooyi 03:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The proposed solution to Samuel Luo is not enough. I think he should be permanently banned for inserting egregious and offensive POV to Wikipedia. Banning Samuel Luo would prevent him to further engage with this POV-laden smear campaign. Other editors should be treated more leniently, though. WooyiTalk, Editor review 20:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Addendum: I just found out about the egregious revert warring committed by User:Jsw663, probably the arbitrators should consider strong action to admonish him as well. WooyiTalk, Editor review 04:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: User:HappyInGeneral's image insertion, I believe, is justified because it's a well-sourced image, and it well illustrates the article. Also, I don't believe User:Mcconn has engaged in any "war" based on evidence, so arbitrators should rescind the unjustified penalties on him. WooyiTalk, Editor review 00:40, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Statement by Wooyi

message: I hold the view that the evidence presented in this arbitration enforcement case does not warrant such a sanction.
I agree that my tongue has been too sharp in some discussions; I have occasionally breached WP:CIVILITY by writing what I thought were seen as humorous remarks and stand corrected. I now understand that Wikipedia is not the forum for witty satire; my sincere apologies to all concerned parties, especially User:Colipon. I promise to treat others with more respect in the future and abstain from quirky metaphors.
However, in my opinion, a six month topic ban without a single warning of inappropriate behaviour does not seem fair. Also, I disagree with User:Shell Kinney's allegation that I would not know how to "write for the enemy". I feel my case has not been evaluated in the proper context – the extremely complex and long-lasting content disputes surrounding the development of these articles, the scars left by the ultra-hostile environment that lead to the previous arbitration case, the behaviour of other involved editors, and the signs of progress that are now unfolding, thanks to fresh outside input. As seen on the related talk pages, I have been very much favourable towards the recent mediation case, and have tried my best to develop these articles together with formerly uninvolved editors.    I would also like the ArbCom to evaluate my recent edit history.
I feel that User:John Carter's opinions were decisive in imposing the ban. Contrary to what he says here, I do not believe that I have a severe conflict of interest in editing these articles; I am not a member of any related organisation, and can get no financial or other benefit whatsoever by taking part. I am merely interested in truthful, transparent coverage of a highly challenging subject, and I have always endorsed the use of peer-reviewed academic sources. See a comment regarding another editor on the CoI noticeboard:  I also do not recognise myself from his characterisation of "being opposed to content which I beli[e]ve wikipedia content guidelines demand". In my discussions I have frequently raised questions about reliable sources and due weight, and I have never opposed to taking matters to community noticeboards. Furthermore, no diffs were produced as evidence of such an attitude.
My honest belief is that the diffs presented in this arbitration enforcement case were essentially dealing with legitimate content disputes, not "POV pushing". Even if a brief glance may lead to a different impression, several of them had been approved on the community noticeboards. I hope that the ArbCom will be able to examine the evidence point-by-point, juxtaposed with my own statement.  Also, I would ask for a contextual review of the "sound bites" that have been brought forth as examples of my incivil comments to evaluate whether they were mostly proactive or reactive.
As a final note, I'd like to say that I was involved in some discussions (such as this one) whose outcome depends on my ability to continue the work. I am almost certain that editors who have taken an opposing position in these discussions may support the ban, because they would no longer have to deal with such hard-to-refute arguments. Even if my style on the talk page has been regrettably harsh in some cases, I feel that my contributions to the content-related discussions have been largely beneficial. By toning down my speech and reflecting on my weaknesses, I believe that I have all the skills to play a significant positive role in this workgroup.
---
P.S. Despite explicit requests , User:John Carter has failed to produce evidence to back up his allegations that I have violated the content policies. I have never tried to "stifle criticism of Falun Gong in the content" merely on the basis that it is critical. I have been very clear on this. For example, see this thread where I disagree with Dilip Rajeev's edit: "[...] I consider it counterproductive and unprofessional. By Wikipedia standards, Encyclopaedia Britannica is a valid source. The same policies and guidelines must apply to everyone. Your reasoning could be used against any material "our" party tries to introduce, and then it will only lead to endless edit warring (you should know) and anomie. Furthermore, the article will not appear credible to any third-party observers if everything "critical" is deliberately removed. [...] If we assume that nearly every subject has a "majority view" and a "significant minority view", and that they're two different things, what would you call the "significant minority view" on Falun Gong and how should we include it in the articles? [...] Even if you feel something shouldn't be in the lead, you should not entirely remove it but perhaps replace it in another section, as long as it's reliably sourced and verifiable."
I find his reference to Jennifer Zeng's suffering extremely insolent and disparaging towards me as a rational subject, as well as towards the experiences of Zeng in the hands of her torturers. Even though he just recently used "Bestiality is good" as a "humorous" example of something that would be placed in the criticism article if it were found in Falun Gong's teachings , I would never have expected to see the persecution exploited as an argument in this amendment case. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 20:32, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Olaf Stephanos 

message: It is hard to convey to anyone just how bizarre the above comments strike me. Olaf seems to have been one of the primary parties to the arbitration which placed the article on probation, as per here, and yet he tries to convey that somehow he wasn't aware of the sanctions. Any reasonable person would, I think, understood that he was notified of the sanctions then.  It is also true that at least one editor has indicated on the article talk page that Olaf's recent egregious violations of even the most basic etiquette as per here are to my eyes sufficient to conclude that what in fact happened was that Olaf forgot the sanctions might apply to him as well. John Carter (talk) 19:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree that Olaf probably thinks of himself as being "witty" and "sarcastic". I remember when I was a college kid too, and I thought much the same thing about myself. The terms "arrogant", "abrasive", "abusive", "condescending", "egomaniacal", "insulting" and "completely unacceptable" were the terms other people used. In my case, "gutter humor" was included as well, and I think some similar phrase probably applies to Olaf as well. I am not myself saying that I necessarily agree with the length of the topic ban, and think that if Olaf displays over the next several months behavior without these concerns in the remainder of the wiki there is a very real chance that the length may be shortened. And if someone wants to begin enforcement proceedings regarding others, they are free to do so, but that would still be a different matter. While Olaf may have some grounds to see that the ban might be excessive, I'm not sure the circumstances he puts forward are cause to amend the ruling. John Carter (talk) 21:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A few comments. Personally, I think HappyInGeneral's comments about how all editors involved should be giving a warning is a good one, but that the existing sanctions template on the top of the page already serves as such a warning. Regarding my contention that Olaf may have a conflict of interests regarding this subject, I have read in the Booklist review of Jennifer Zeng's book Witnessing History, which I have not yet added to the article in question, how she had to "come to terms" with the "painful conclusion" that, by signing a document saying she would no longer practice the tenets of Falun Gong, which was required for her to be able to flee the country, she had violated a central tenet of Falun Gong regarding "compromising with evil". Olaf has more than once proudly indicated that he too is a practicioner of Falun Gong, and thus, presumably, supposed to adhere to the same tenet. His actions and comments have certainly fairly regularly been of an totally uncompromising type. The viewpoint of the Chinese government, for instance, is I think clearly that of a significant minority, and thus deserves reasonable coverage, although he has I believe repeatedly objected to such information and indicated that adding such information would only serve or enhance the position of the Chinese government, when in fact it would, I believe, be what policy and guidelines demand of us. It could also be said that by trying to stifle criticism of Falun Gong in the content Olaf is himself guilty of "attempting to use Wikipedia for ideological struggle and advocacy", which is one of the reasons for banning other parties in the extant arbitration ruling. John Carter (talk) 14:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have expectedf to see Olaf indulge in the same sort of personal insults and attacks on this page as he has regularly done elsewhere, and can honestly imagine few better reasons to sustain the existing ruling than continuation to indulge in such clearly inappropriate behavior. Regarding his objection to what I at the time saw as being a clearly obvious, if lame, attempt at humor, he may have a point, but would suggest he pay more attention to his own failings in that regard first. John Carter (talk) 20:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have I regret to say had no luck finding the link to the discussion, given the remarkable number of edits Olaf has had in recent days, so I am obliged to withdraw the statment until and unless I find it. Having said that, I also wish to state that I find Asdfg12345's misrepresentation of my earlier comment attempting to establish that any practicioner of Falun Gong would be obliged to adhere to what has been said to be a fundamental tenet of the faith in the way he did c0mpletely and utterly uncalled for and indicative of either very poor reading skills or some sort of willful intention to misrepresent the statement of others, either of which would be a very bad reflection on his character or ability as an editor. John Carter (talk) 01:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is merely a comment regarding some information I have recently discovered. I've only been involved at all with this topic for a few weeks. Olaf, who says on his user page that he has completed a masters degree and that he's been an editor here for over four years, could possibly be expected to in that time have consulted Stephen Jones' The Encyclopedia of Religion regarding Falun Gong, considering that I myself have found to be included in the reference section of every reasonably sized public or private library I have been to, and even online at the Gale Research website. It is, basically, the most highly regarded recent reference book on the subject of religion in general. This book contains a number of pieces of information which some might consider critical of Falun Gong, and it seems to me from his edit history that he has in general opposed addition of such information. It is possible that he never consulted this generally highly credited source, of course. It is also possible, at least potentially, that he did, but for whatever reason chose to not indicate as much, and, if he did know of it, and continued to oppose the inclusion of information he knew to be included in what is among the most reliable sources on the subject extant, I think that might speak very poorly of him indeed, were it the case. John Carter (talk) 15:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Olaf has subsequently commented to me that he himself had not consulted this source, and I have no reason to doubt his word in this matter. John Carter (talk) 16:09, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by John Carter 

message: [ec] Basically he has just been making clever and cocky remarks in discussions about content--well, give a warning and tell him that if he continues to do it there will be a ban. His edits to the actual articles are not particularly problematic; this is essentially a content dispute, with disagreements as usual. Just banning outright for such a long time seems to neglect the wider context. Smarmy remarks and personal comments have been a feature of the editing experience on these pages for some time now: Olaf's case should reinforce for everyone that this has to stop, but banning him from the topic just like that is definitely going about it the wrong way. Actually looking through the diffs shows he's only guilty of being a smart-arse, and that doesn't warrant a ban. Having realised the need to change attitudes, I'm sure you'll see a very amiable and civil editor emerge. 
Just an addendum, given Colipon's remarks. As my mother said to me: "When you point the finger, there are three pointing back." Can we then say that Colipon is dedicated to "present[ing] Falun Gong in a negative light and to supress any positive comment on the movement"? Can we say that Colipon has done any edits that portray Falun Gong in a positive light? I'd like to see them. What about Ohconfucius, PerEdman, Mrund? Let's see their history of edits that portray Falun Gong in a positive, rather than negative, light. Such a consideration is not even within the scope of AE, really, because these should be rulings on behaviour, not content. Olaf's disputes, anyway, have always been about reliable sourcing, not about the content itself; i.e., just because something is critical of Falun Gong is no grounds for removing it, it's about whether that source is reliable or not. Unfortunately, since some people peddle sub-par sources critical of Falun Gong, some editors have gotten confused sometimes (like with the Rick Ross sources...). 
Olaf hasn't disrupted the talk pages any more than others. What are termed here "disruptions" are the regular course of discussion/argumentation about the subject matter and sources. His remarks are no more disruptive than Colipon's. This is basically a clash of viewpoints that has been taken to AE, there is no real evidence of editing that violates wikipedia content guidelines. ScienceApologist has gotten away with far worse remarks about other editors. A lot of the complaint about Olaf just used words like "arrogant", "cocky", etc., which are well and true, but shouldn't affect the ruling. Olaf has basically just played the same games as the others, except he's played them quite well. Tell everyone to stop and things can move on; we'll get a civil atmosphere with no personal remarks, and strict, dead-pan content discussions; when there are disagreements they go to community noticeboards, and there will be no more of this nonsense. 2cents --Asdfg12345 20:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Asdfg12345

message: A very strange counter-case. Olaf Stephanos is obviously aware of his own behavior and that it has taken place in a probationary article. If he wants to show others how well he has learned from these realized mistakes, he has plenty of time to do so in articles on all other subjects than the one on which he has hitherto failed. The Falun Gong pages are indeed showing signs of improvement, which is another reason why Olaf Stephanos, considering his past behavior, should not be allowed to be active on those pages at this time. PerEdman (talk) 22:46, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with PerEdman, please ignore this new user, his edits are not constructive under any standard. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by PerEdman 

message: The sanction was clearly not focussed on the content, but on some rather toxic behaviour of Olav. Already, I am happy that the sanction seems to have brought Olav down a peg or two from this very arrogant comment, and elicited an unprecedented outpouring of contrition (albeit measured), above. The sanction may look like a 6 month block for a WP:SPA, but it's only a topic ban which covers about a dozen articles, so I think it is acceptable and appropriate bearing in mind there are nearly 3 million articles now on en:WP; Olav could gain immensely from working unrelated articles and with a wider pool of editors. I look forward to working with him when the topic ban is lifted in six months. It goes without saying that we will expect a high standard of behaviour from him then. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:25, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Ohconfucius 

message: (Perm link to AE report)
On reviewing the report at WP:AE, I felt that the diffs given showed a pattern of strong POV pushing and incivil talk page commentary that created a hostile environment.  As Olaf Stephanos was a party to the arbitration case, I didn't believe further warning was necessary in this case.
Samples:
*The face of your ideological struggle just looks so much better with a faux moustache and a gargantuan plastic nose
*I merely proved through direct quotes that your shining helmet of neutrality seems to be made of cheap Chinese tinfoil. If you weren't peacocking around with phrases like "neutral-minded editors calling on the pro-FLG side to adhere to NPOV", there would be no need to point out your double standards. Why don't you start playing your cards openly?.
*"Guys, guys, here's a handkerchief to wipe your foaming mouths...
*In my eyes you have come across as one raging anti-FLG bull.
*regarding your comment about what I "insist", perhaps you'd better check your eyesight
However, I have no objections to ArbCom modifying or removing the ban as they see fit if they feel there's a better way to handle the situation. Shell   babelfish 09:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Shell Kinney 

message: Olaf has had a significant role in the discussions, and he has been taking part actively, with substantiated arguments, based on policies that drive value into Wikipedia. Given that several editors have engaged in breaches of WP:Civility, not just one. if we single out one participant the problem remains with an empowerment to those who issued the AE. In order to restore WP:Civility I think that the best practical approach is to issue warnings to all parties that engage in WP:NPA, followed by a topic ban if this does not help. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 11:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by HappyInGeneral 

message: While I certainly agree that Olaf needs to tone-down his commenting style, pay attention to his conduct on talk, put things across in a manner more appropriate for discussion on an encyclopaedia article, and refrain from resorting to his "carnivalesque" style of commenting, I am of the opinion the contributions he has made to these articles should also be taken into consideration. 
I'd request the arbitration committee to give due weight to the fact that Olaf's contributions to these articles themselves have, it may be verified from his contrib history, always been well sourced, well-written and adhering to wikipedia policies. 
Among the 20 arguments presented by Colipon in making the case against Olaf - the only ones with any basis are those pertinent to talk page comments( this may be verified by considering the context of the edits, the sourcing of material added by the user, etc. ). Olaf makes this apparent in his response to these allegations.  Further,on the talk page, other editors, including User:Colipon, have been equally, if not more, acerbic- calling for bans on all editors not agreeing with his POV, labeling legitimate changes "blatantly POV" , etc.  These attacks are harder to see through - as they do not involve blatantly acerbic language on the surface - but baselessly accuse and attack editors to promote a personal agenda.
Another major concern I have is what Olaf points out here. An activity, which , as far as my limited understanding of Wikipedia policies can tell, is in blatant violation of WP:CABAL. And the activity is happening on articles placed on probation by the ArbCom. There have been very serious and problematic issues in edits by these users, in terms of content removal etc. One such very recent instance is here, a revert of a stable article to 1 year old version, on the basis of demonstratably misleading claims,  in the process deleting several paragraphs of content sourced to mainstream academia, a centrally relevant image, and adding material from CCP propaganda sheets.(I consciously refrained from reverting the disruptions, to avoid a revert war, and hoping the admins will take notice.) The same user who reverted the article blanked out 20 K from the stable main-article claiming to make a "bold change", based on a comment by "Seb az86556." 
I realize this is not the place to get into such discussion, but it seemed appropriate that I point out such behavior - particularly since these very users attempt to inculpate Olaf for talk page comments, while themselves demonstrating a pattern of editing, on the articles themselves, that is, to say the least, extremely  disconcerting.
::* Seb az86556 on Ohconfucius' talk page: "you did well in keeping the this Olaf-guy at bay, and I can see now why the Falun Gong thing you emailed about will be "total war"..." 
::* Colipon on Edward130603's talk page: "Anyway, do you have e-mail?" 
::* Colipon on Mrund's talk page: "I'd sent you an e-mail today. Please check! :)" 
::* Ohconfucius on Mrund's talk page: "I'm glad you're back. Drop me an email, I'd like a private chat with you." 
Clearly, the editors who started this campaign have a rather strong agenda of their own. How does a few haughty talk page comments even compare to rallying for "total war", outside of wikipedia, on articles placed on probation by the ArbCom?
Regarding the agenda held by the above editors, I consider it at least peripherally relevant that User:Colipon   has identified himself as a supporter of User:Samuel_Luo and has not retracted his comments.
Dilip rajeev (talk) 19:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Dilip Rajeev 

message: The only agenda that Colipon, Ohconfucius or anybody else, has on this issue has been an honest and earnest attempt to make the FLG articles have some semblance of neutrality.  Sorry, I don't want to go into an extensive discussion on the matter but, the record speaks for itself.Simonm223 (talk) 01:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Simonm223 

message: One example of the progress that's been made since the imposition of the ban can be found here: New Proposed Outline Seb az86556 (talk) 03:42, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment by Seb az86556 

message: This appears to be part of a move from away from the long-standing dysfunctional environment, which includes a failure to utilize appropriate resolution options and pervasive personal accusations in article talk. Complaints about behavior were moved away from the article talk to an enforcement venue. An uninvolved administrator with significant experience and a solid reputation concluded that the evidence supported a commensurate sanction. Regardless of individual opinions, an appropriate process and review was utilized to address the disputed conduct. While this matter is an arbitration enforcement, unless arbitrators believe Shell Kinney has seriously erred or that the process was misused/gamed unduly, they should leave the matter to the enforcing administrators and community. Reversing the proper utilization of appropriate venues would be seriously damaging to the (slow but still substantial) progress being made in the topic area. There may be conduct issues involving other editors, whether it is accurate accusations of misconduct or problematic behavior by way of spurious accusations. However, there is no need for ArbCom to address those issues at this time. Other complaints can be similarly handled by the complainants and community through discussion, a request for comments, and/or enforcement venues. Vassyana (talk) 19:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Vassyana 

message: I do no think that Olaf should be banned. He is such a great editor who fights against communist CCP agents. Letting Wikipedia enlighten the people on the greatness of Falun Dafa will be beneficial to all.
I think we should change the topic ban to ALL the CCP AGENTS. They are being disgusting.
Falun Gong must be shown not as a cult either. Nor should it be called a religion. It is just the ultimate spiritual practice that nothing else can compare. It has no political agenda either. 
Please reconsider Olaf's case based on the fact that Falun Dafa is the Great Law.--198.85.228.129 (talk) 15:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by yet another editor 

message: List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
* (initiator)
*
*
;Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request:
* Ohconfucius
* Dilip rajeev
=== Statement by John Carter ===
Requesting clarification of whether or not the terms of probation on Falun Gong related articles allow for uninvolved administrators to place a block or ban on the basis of the terms as is currently being requested at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Dilip rajeev. I'm not sure if I have to notify all the other parties who have already commented on the request for enforcement there, but will do so if such is requested. John Carter (talk) 16:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for clarification: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Falun Gong#Article probation]] 

message: Requesting clarification of whether or not the terms of probation on Falun Gong related articles allow for uninvolved administrators to place a block or ban on the basis of the terms as is currently being requested at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Dilip rajeev. I'm not sure if I have to notify all the other parties who have already commented on the request for enforcement there, but will do so if such is requested. John Carter (talk) 16:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by John Carter 

message: I would just point out that in January 2008, Dilip rajeev was topic banned for 3 months without coming to AE; prior to that was a block of 55 hours. Olaf Stephanos was also given a 6 month topic ban recently here at AE for just such a violation. Ohconfucius (talk) 17:02, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Ohconfucius 

message: I was the one to first raise this question, and refer the Committee to my comments at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Comment by Sandstein. I would also appreciate a clarification of this point. In reply to Ohconfucius, any previous sanctions do not by themselves constitute sufficient authority for new sanctions; it may well be that these previous sanctions were themselves unauthorized under the remedy.  Sandstein  09:39, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Sandstein 

message: This has been generally treated as a standard article probation with an additional option for ArbCom review. Please note the examples above and listed at the case log, as well as Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment#Request to amend prior case: Falun Gong. If this is inccrrect, I expect that ArbCom, individual arbitrators, or enforcement admins would have long-ago corrected the misuse of the remedy. A clarification to explicitly state the status quo handling of the remedy should not be necessary. It should suffice for arbitrators to uphold the standard interpretation, as they are doing in Olaf Stephanos' specific case. If it is really considered necessary to deal with this by way of formal clarification, then please resolve the matter by motion ASAP to prevent this from becoming an in for all previous and standing sanctions to be wikilawyered. --Vassyana (talk) 23:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Vassyana 

message: The intent of the remedy, as written, was to both (a) place the article on standard article probation, which allows administrators to enact topic bans on their own discretion and (b) provide an explicit provision for further review should the probation prove unsuccessful.  I see no reason to believe that any of the arbitrators voting for this remedy believed its meaning to be different from this. Kirill [talk] [pf] 15:01, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Kirill Lokshin 

message: *I'd appreciate if someone could ask Kirill Lokshin for his thoughts on this request, as he drafted the decision. Thanks. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arbitrator views and discussion 

message: I ask that remedy 1, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Falun Gong#Article probation, be vacated and replaced by a standard discretionary sanctions remedy, such as e.g. WP:ARB911#Discretionary sanctions.
==== Statement by Sandstein ====
Remedy 1 provides for "article probation" for all articles in the area of conflict. But article probation, as specified at WP:GS#Types of sanctions ("Editors making disruptive edits may be banned by an administrator from articles on probation and related articles or project pages") only allows article or topic bans. However, in some situations, administrators may wish to impose less drastic measures. For instance, in the open enforcement request at WP:AE#Simonm223, I think that a revert restriction would be more appropriate, at least initially, than a topic ban. Although one might assume that, a maiore ad minus, the authority to impose a strong sanction such as a topic ban implies the authority to impose lesser sanctions, it is preferable (for the avoidance of doubt and wikilawyering) that such authority be expressly provided for.
I make this request as an administrator active in WP:AE (again since January 1, having confidence in the new ArbCom), and have no involvement in the original case or in any other disputes concerning Falun Gong.  Sandstein  22:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I cross posted the above here. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 13:34, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Amendment 1

message: Remedy 1 provides for "article probation" for all articles in the area of conflict. But article probation, as specified at WP:GS#Types of sanctions ("Editors making disruptive edits may be banned by an administrator from articles on probation and related articles or project pages") only allows article or topic bans. However, in some situations, administrators may wish to impose less drastic measures. For instance, in the open enforcement request at WP:AE#Simonm223, I think that a revert restriction would be more appropriate, at least initially, than a topic ban. Although one might assume that, a maiore ad minus, the authority to impose a strong sanction such as a topic ban implies the authority to impose lesser sanctions, it is preferable (for the avoidance of doubt and wikilawyering) that such authority be expressly provided for.
I make this request as an administrator active in WP:AE (again since January 1, having confidence in the new ArbCom), and have no involvement in the original case or in any other disputes concerning Falun Gong.  Sandstein  22:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Sandstein 

message: I have reviewed the editorial history of this topic area in some depth. Fulfilling this request would be immensely helpful to the editors trying to help resolve the disputes. This will be encouraging to administrators already trying to make headway in the area. It will also encourage more administrators to intervene, especially those who may have been ambivalent about the more limited enforcement options. This will also be beneficial to editors in the area, with the conditions and sanctions better tailored to the situation. The resulting improvements and normalization of the editing environment will allow dispute resolution efforts a great deal more traction and success. The long-running and intractable nature of the overall dispute in the topic area should justify the expanded measures. Vassyana (talk) 22:48, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Vassyana 

message: Quite frankly I shouldn't even be given a revert restriction for protecting the neutrality of the FLG articles from blatant efforts to insert a strong POV.  Notwithstanding that this is still a good idea. Simonm223 (talk) 02:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement By Simonm223 

message: No matter what the outcome may be, will you in the end have something in place that will reward discussion and discourage blind reverts? As I see it this is the only way to ensure to improve Wikipedia. Thanks. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 13:05, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I cross posted the above here. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 13:34, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by HappyInGeneral 

message: *Recuse. I wish to remain uninvolved as an arbitrator, because I have been involved in the past as an outside editor/informal mediator and wish to engage the area on that basis. I will make a brief statement as a regular editor. Vassyana (talk) 22:31, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arbitrator views and discussion 

message: Sandstein said he banned me from editing Falun Gong articles for three reasons: “edit-warring (less aggressively than some of his opponents, but still), single purpose account (editing only FG topics) and advocacy (editing only to present FG more favorably)”
I will respond to these points with explanation and diffs.
1: On the edit warring charge. 
I have had a policy of 1RR for a long time now. I think the only time I broke it was shown in the complaint against me; I crossed 1RR a couple of times then. That was under the circumstance that the other editor had ignored a consensus, derived from an RfC, which supported what I had suggested from the beginning. I felt justified, but in hindsight would be more careful. I’m not aware of any other edit warring on my part—none was presented in the original AE—and it is my intention to maintain the 1RR policy and not revert at all when it can be avoided. I try to always discuss things cogently and civilly. I do not edit war, do not intend to edit war, and know edit warring is bad.
2: On the single purpose account charge.
Since being banned I have taken a broader interest in other topics related to Chinese politics and governance. Whether I edit Falun Gong articles or not, I will continue to edit other articles unrelated to Falun Gong. 
I note that the page on SPAs is not a policy item, but an essay. Of course, Wikipedia is not for advocacy, and advocates coming to push their POVs should be shown the door. I am here to help build this encyclopedia on the topics that I know about and that interest me, not as an advocate of an outside cause. I know the rules and play by them, and I want to build professional articles on the subjects I edit. (Though I’ve also been accused of “wikilawyering” when citing policy or providing sources to support my views.)
3: On the advocacy charge.
I do not and have not edited only to present Falun Gong more favourably. Most of my ideas for improvement, and many of my edits, are not structured along the lines of favourable/unfavourable, which I think is most often an unproductive dichotomy for categorising edits or editors. That said, it may appear that many of my edits make Falun Gong look favourable because a lot of the information which paints Falun Gong in an unfavourable light, whether reliably sourced or not, or in accord with due weight or not, is already in the articles, or has already been added by other editors. Making Falun Gong look favourable is not my purpose for editing Wikipedia, and I of course know the job of Wikipedia isn’t to paint Falun Gong in a favourable light—I don’t support including material just because it is perceived favourable to Falun Gong, and excluding material just because it is perceived as unfavourable. Making this accusation has become a common way of deflecting attention from the issues at hand onto the individual raising the problem.
Here is a small collection of edits meant to counter the idea that I’m editing Wikipedia to promote a pro-Falun Gong point of view:
 
*Here I removed some effusive praise for Falun Gong that was inappropriate for the lead of an article. Here a paragraph of defense of Falun Gong’s founder’s financial situation.
*Here I reverted what appeared to me an attempt to replace material critical or derisive of Falun Gong’s teachings with material that did not include such remarks. This was cited by Enric Naval as an example of how I “remove criticism,” but the opposite is true. I initially wrote that section summarising the views disparaging of Falun Gong's teachings.
*Here is one edit in a section that I wrote about the debate about psychiatric abuse of Falun Gong practitioners in China, including the voices that were more sympathetic to the stance of the Chinese Communist Party. Previously I had also outlined the CCP's claims against Falun Gong, including phrases like "...the practice has exploited spiritual cultivation to engage its practitioners in seditious politics. They also allege that manipulation via their "lies and fallacies", Falun Gong "caused needless deaths of large numbers of practitioners"" etc. none of which I considered unusual to have done.)
*Here I got a barnstar from my sparring partner, Ohconfucius. (He must have figured I can’t be all bad, then).
*Here an editor uninvolved in the Falun Gong pages took the initiative to defend me in a discussion: "I know the Asdfg12345 has edited things other than this; while his edits may be 90% FLG-related, I know he's also worked on other general Chinese culture pages (not to mention he once  AfD'ed Masanjia Labor Camp, which is not something you'd expect from someone who is a blind FLG follower, given that pretty much all of these RTL-related articles are anti-China")
*Here are some of the edits,  I made to the main Falun Gong article before I was banned. These edits were cited as an example of how I’m a POV-pusher when I numbered them all and asked for discussion before they be removed. They were removed without discussion. Then I added them back, and they stuck (above are the second round). It’s not that I only put in things I believe. I don’t believe some of that is true, some of it depicts Falun Gong negatively too, which I have never opposed, but it’s from reliable sources and in that context is relevant.
*Here are some of the recent proposals I have made (while banned from editing those pages) for improving the pages. I haven’t put on a special show of neutrality since being banned to curry favour. If that is pro-Falun Gong advocacy then I have a lot more reflection to do than I thought. Several of those posts were simple exercises in research, like finding how many sources categorise Falun Gong as "qigong," and how many as "new religious movement" etc. Some of the ideas were ignored anyway.
*The above are just a sample after a quick scan of my contributions to Falun Gong articles.
Final remarks
Those are just some examples. I wrote a long response to the arguments presented by Enric Naval that attempted to show that I am a tendentious editor who lavishes praise on Falun Gong and deletes anything perceived negative. Most of the complaint and belated response is straightforward, I think, except the second complaint. That is more complex. The quickest way to sum it up, though, is to see the two RfCs I started, and note that the opinion of the uninvolved party was exactly what I had been saying. There was a second RfC because Simonm223 ignored the first.
When writing this, I made a choice to say little about the editing dynamics on the pages, the issues surrounding Falun Gong and how they may relate to Wikipedia, perceived biases on the part of some editors, which usually dominate discussion on this subject. Based on some of the unwelcoming remarks to newcomers though, I think the environment will have to improve to avoid further litigation.
I think my being banned was a mistake, and I hope above to have shown why. I have learned from the experience, and will continue to cultivate a more nuanced approach to editing Wikipedia, including doing better with research, and editing a wider variety of articles. I feel like I have gotten some perspective in this month, thought about the issues, and so decided to request an amendment. Please advise if further evidence would be helpful in deciding my case. Thank you for your time.
Respectfully, --Asdfg12345 04:34, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: By "class enemy," broadly speaking I mean someone who is to be punished for who they are, not for what they have done. I say that because it appears to be the most useful model for understanding the current situation in my view, based on the discussion and respect accorded to evidence and process so far. --Asdfg12345 03:29, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Asdfg12345 

message: I'm not sure whether, in view of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Appeal, this is the right venue for an appeal of a discretionary sanction, but if arbitrators would like my opinion about this request, I'll give it.  Sandstein  06:38, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Sandstein 

message: This request belongs to WP:AE. 
The content disputes belong to the talk pages of articles (and, for the record, I will reply much better to requests about content that are not filled with bad faith assumptions cannot be easily interpreted as being full of bad faith assumptions about how I'm trying to smear Falun Gong for some unspecified reason). --Enric Naval (talk) 22:42, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Enric Naval 

message: I will give my brief comment. Asdfg12345 has worked constructively on the Falun Gong articles for several years. He has always been polite towards other editors, and has taken a methodical approach to NPOV, ensuring that no relevant point of view is left out and that sources are given fair treatment. His insistence on high-quality sources has been categorical, and he has repeatedly made use of peer-reviewed journals and other reputable academic publications. 
I am afraid that the involved administrators do not fully understand the delicate balance of the overall situation. The neutrality of the Falun Gong articles has seriously degraded after Asdfg12345 was blocked. As many of us have observed, this is not a simple matter of "neutral-minded" editors seeking to honestly work towards an article that gives fair and due weight to all relevant viewpoints—and who follow neutrality as methodology—against "biased" SPAs who only work to "promote their cause". Indeed, practically none of the editors who have been involved with the Falun Gong articles has taken a totally cool, dispassionate approach to the subject matter. This is partly due to the editing environment and its long-standing disputes that have never been resolved properly, in spite of numerous attempts. Yet, among the group of editors who have been involved with the Falun Gong articles over the last few years, Asdfg12345's track record is among the very cleanest. He has proactively initiated rational and argumentative discussion, and I feel that this may be one reason why some would rather see him blocked. Asdfg12345 has kept up the true spirit of Wikipedia against those who have a preconceived notion of how the Falun Gong articles should read, and who fail to regard the true depth of high-ranking research out there. Moreover, there are always those who'd rather cut the corners than engage in real discussion.
My opinion is that the Arbitration Committee, or other Wikipedia officials in positions of comparable power, should put in the effort to investigate the situation from a pragmatic perspective. I would argue that Asdfg12345's case is too susceptible to an individual administrator's impression of the subject matter as such; in other words, I strongly feel that the case has not been evaluated on its own merits. The produced evidence does not warrant a block, and a six month topic ban is simply inconceivable. Just take a look at Asdfg12345's edit history: it can only prove that he is here to truly construct an encyclopedia. Even though his focus has been on the Falun Gong articles and related subjects in the past, his contributions have been extremely solid, balanced, well-sourced, and transparent. He is a real expert, and these articles and their informed readers sorely miss him. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 14:28, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Olaf Stephanos 

message: Having previously involved in the diting of Falun Gong related articles I was acquainted with User:asdfg and his/her editing style. User:asdfg is very polite and forthcoming and never stoops to civilty violations or other kinds of overtly abusive or disruptive behaviour. However, I think there is every reason to maintain the ban on the reason of asdfg's being a clear instance of a Single Purpose Account - of the most tenacious variety. I arrived at Falun Gong with out any preconceived notions (except an interest in presenting the issue in a academically adequate manner from the POV of a sociologist of religion (if anything I was prepared to possibly have to defend the viewpoint of Falun Gong as minority religion as these are often prone to attacks from "anti-cult editors")) - I was soon so completely exhausted by the constant pressure and civil disruption (in the form of disregard for consensus, continued argument over issues already determined by consensus and different kinds of vexatious litigation (in the form of rfc's, etc.)) from asdfg and other openly pro-Falun Gong editors that I decided that continuing work on that article was not worth the costs to my mental health - I know that several other editors have had similar experiences. I believe that topic banning asdfg from Falun Gong related articles is the right way to protect wikipedias integrity and the mental health of its neutral-minded editors. In short, I believe that no amendment to this arbitration decision is required or warranted·Maunus·ƛ· 14:07, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment by previously involved user [[User:Maunus]]

message: :Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.
==== Statement by yet another editor ====
==== Clerk notes ====
:This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
==== Arbitrator views and discussion ====
*This should go to WP:AE, but at an initial examination this looks to me like a reasonable exercise of the discretion granted to administrators under the January 19, 2010 case amendment. Steve Smith (talk) 03:06, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further discussion 

message: *This should go to WP:AE, but at an initial examination this looks to me like a reasonable exercise of the discretion granted to administrators under the January 19, 2010 case amendment. Steve Smith (talk) 03:06, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arbitrator views and discussion 

message: I find it suspicious that PCPP has two TBAN-violation blocks in his log but has only made only 246 mainspace edits since the ban was imposed. Additionally, it would seem that a number of edits that went unnoticed (did not result in blocks) were also violations, as they edited articles with "Falun Gong" in the titles 20 times between February 2011 and October 2011 but were not blocked until January. There was apparently a hubbub following these violations that resulted in several other editors being TBANned, but I have not figured out how PCPP avoided getting blocked.
Typically, the way one goes about appealing a TBAN is to demonstrate one is capable of working on building an encyclopedia in a constructive manner without violating the ban, but in this case it appears PCPP continued editing as though nothing had happened, then once they were finally blocked continued making piecemeal edits for a couple of months before essentially dropping out of the project for four years and coming back to get blocked for violating the TBAN and immediately appealing it.
 Can you explain why you think your TBAN was put in place in the first place and why you have barely edited Wikipedia since your TBAN was enforced?
Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:45, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Hijiri88 

message: Looks to me like a clear-cut case of biding time until allowed back into the same fray.  If the editor was not interested in getting back into Falun Gong editing, they wouldn't be trying to pursue Falun Gong-related grievances, and would have done something constructive on the encyclopedia in the intervening time.  Looks like a WP:NOTHERE / WP:5THWHEEL matter to me.  I'm not unsympathetic to feeling one has been wrongly accused and taking a long break, having been in that boat once myself, but the editor isn't even making that case.  Just vanished for years and is now back arguing about FG again while disavowing an intent to get into FG matters. Seems just like yelling "I am not yelling!", which is funny in a comedy but not in real life.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  07:28, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by SMcCandlish 

message: * OK, not a lot of community comment here, but that's understandable given the activity levels involved. , it appears that you haven't made a mainspace edit since December 2013, and your only recent activity consists of attempting to file a complaint in violation of your topic ban. Given that you say one of the reasons you want your sanction lifted is so you can file complaints, I'm not inclined to grant this request. I suggest reacquainting yourself with the encyclopedia after your time away by doing some editing in mainspace in an unrelated topic area and filing a new appeal after six months of productive contributions. Opabinia regalis (talk) 06:54, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Falun Gong.: Arbitrator views and discussion 

message: :Original discussion
Initiated by Marvin 2009 at 05:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: ;List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request
* (initiator)
*
*
*
;Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
*diff of notification PatCheng
*
*diff of notification Guerillero 
;Information about amendment request
*indefinite topic ban from Falun Gong, broadly construed
=== Statement by Marvin 2009 ===
Can an editor who has been under a topic ban use a sock puppet to report another editor to arbitration enforcement? Clearly not. And if the editor do so before the sock puppetry is uncovered, should any sanction arising from his or her complaint be nullified, after the sock puppetry is uncovered? 
By the end of June, I was informed for an indefinite topic ban from Falun Gong in response to PatCheng's arbitration enforcement request. On July 27, both  and   were blocked, as PatCheng has been confirmed to be a sock puppet of PCPP who . I am requesting a clarification that whether the topic ban enforced on me due to PatCheng's AE request should be nullified? Thanks. Precious Stone (Marvin 2009) 05:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

text: This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
*This request seeks to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. I have therefore reformatted this request as an amendment request for the original case and named the administrator who imposed the sanction as a party. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 05:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amendment request: Falun Gong (August 2020) 

message: Can an editor who has been under a topic ban use a sock puppet to report another editor to arbitration enforcement? Clearly not. And if the editor do so before the sock puppetry is uncovered, should any sanction arising from his or her complaint be nullified, after the sock puppetry is uncovered? 
By the end of June, I was informed for an indefinite topic ban from Falun Gong in response to PatCheng's arbitration enforcement request. On July 27, both  and   were blocked, as PatCheng has been confirmed to be a sock puppet of PCPP who . I am requesting a clarification that whether the topic ban enforced on me due to PatCheng's AE request should be nullified? Thanks. Precious Stone (Marvin 2009) 05:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Marvin 2009 

message: You may also want to take a look at
* User talk:Guerillero/Archives/2020/July#It seems that the AE report against me was from a sock puppet account (posted 17 July 2020)
* Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log#Falun Gong 2
* Ongoing ANI thread
* AE Thread that lead to the existing sanctions
Marvin 2009 has been trying their darnedest to reverse their topic ban; this is the fourth try in a month to reverse their topic ban. I stand by the topic ban and point to the fact that each of the 4 have failed to follow WP:NOTTHEM. Marvin 2009 interacts with dispute resolution as if it was a court or justice system instead of as a system to prevent disruption. The topic ban is from an area that is plagued with edit warring, aspersions, and general intractability. The whole area may need an additional arb case shortly to do another round of site/topic bans and place 30/500 over the topic area --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 15:02, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Guerillero 

message: See the following discussions for context:
*  – posted 27 July 2020
*  – posted 28 July 2020
This amendment request is Marvin 2009's third appeal of their topic ban this week. — Newslinger talk 09:46, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Newslinger 

message: That PatCheng was a sockpuppet seems to me to be largely irrelevant to whether Marvin 2009 should or should not have received a topic ban. The administrators on the enforcement request found that Marvin was edit warring and casting aspersions. PatCheng's behaviour does not change these findings. Suggest amendment request be denied. Tantusar (talk) 11:18, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by Tantusar 

message: I do not see any particular relevance to the fact that the AE complaint was brought by someone later found to be a sockpuppet. Even at that request, the three of us who discussed it did note that the PatCheng account seemed awfully fishy in the way they were behaving, and for that reason (among others) they were sanctioned as well. Marvin 2009's sanction has already been subject to, and upheld by, community review at AN, so I think it is shown to be valid. It is not unusual, at AE, for a filer of a request for sanctions to themselves have engaged in misbehavior too, but that cannot mean we just ignore what they bring up if the concerns are indeed legitimate. It may mean, as in this request, that both parties wind up sanctioned.
That aside, I'll reiterate my concern that there has been a lot of unusual behavior in regards to Falun Gong, including sleeper accounts popping right back to activity the moment a serious dispute starts. I still think that warrants a closer look, and finding the sockpuppetry here makes me think so even more. Seraphimblade Talk to me 19:47, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Statement by Seraphimblade

message: I think  is right. Socking to report other users is a high risk strategy, and any report is unlikely to result in sanctions unless the behaviour merits it. Which in this case it seems to have done. Marvin was edit-warring to advance a POV, and his only excuse was "but look at all this bias". He has under 5,400 edits, over 11 years, and FG topics dominate. I don't think he's here to be part of the wider project. Guy (help!) 21:50, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement by JzG 

message: :This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
*This request seeks to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. I have therefore reformatted this request as an amendment request for the original case and named the administrator who imposed the sanction as a party. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 05:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Falun Gong: Clerk notes 

message: *This would be akin to fruit of the poisonous tree if this were a judicial system. Since it's not, overturning an AE topic ban for that reason alone is not required (and from what I understand, the appeal has already been declined for other reasons). Looking at it another way: If a non-topic banned party had requested the enforcement, would it still have been applied? Since the sockpuppetry was not known to the placing administrator at the time, the answer seems to be yes. –xenotalk 16:42, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Falun Gong: Arbitrator views and discussion