Talk:Surf's Up (song)

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Beach Boys - Surf's Up (single).jpg

message: With the release of the Smile Sessions, which included a 1967 piano version of Surf's Up, it's clear that the song was intended to end with Child is the Father of the Man at least as early as '67 24.84.24.178 (talk) 11:22, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surf's Up 1967 version 

message: There's a page for the 2004 album Smile, which contains a new recording of this song. Probably worth mentioning since it's arguably one of the handful of post-Pet Sounds compositions to rise to the level of that classic album.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevintimba (talk • contribs) 05:19, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Under "live performances".--Ilovetopaint (talk) 06:19, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mention of the 2004 version? 

message: The only time I've ever seen the famous "too complex to get around" quote attributed to Oppenheim is within this article. I'm pretty sure it was direct from Bernstein?--Ilovetopaint (talk) 23:51, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Sanchez does attribute it to Bernstein, though, no (on p. 96)? I believe he's half right in his description there: it's actually Oppenheim providing the "impassive voiceover" earlier in Part II, but then Bernstein returns for the "Surf's Up" segment. JG66 (talk) 12:04, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I watched again and I'm almost positive that the voice praising "Surf's Up" is Oppenheimer, not Bernstein. --Ilovetopaint (talk) 12:56, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

text: Just to confirm/clarify JG66's observation: Sanchez attributes this to Bernstein on page 97 (not 96 -- at least, 97 is the correct page reference in my copy of the first printing from Bloomsbury Academic): "Bernstein describes the song as an inevitable convergence of music and social consciousness: 'Here is a new song, too complex to get all of the first time around[...]'".  Philip Lambert also attributes this to Bernstein (p. 275).  At the very least, the attribution of the quote to Oppenheim in the introduction to the article is very misleading in its citation of Sanchez, since Sanchez does not make this attribution.  Sanchez and Lambert could both be wrong of course, but it would be nice to have evidence for this beyond subjective impressions.  Perhaps I'll do a forensic phonetic analysis soon, analyzing spectograms of known Bernstein vs. Oppenheim recordings. Though this isn't a forum for original research, it seems like a failure to corroborate Ilovetopaint's impression would be sufficient grounds for removing the Oppenheim attribution, since there would be no independent support for it in that case?  On the other hand, if it does corroborate the claim, I suppose it would be necessary to publish the result disputing Sanchez and Lambert in an independent publication, which could then be cited here to support the Oppenheim attribution?  Feedback welcome.  JustinCope82 (talk) 01:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm convinced now after comparing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afU76JJcquI&t=124 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afU76JJcquI&t=2847. Why would Bernstein refer to himself in the third person? There are a lot of longtime Beach Boys myths and this seems to be one that nobody's caught.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 10:36, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, it seems reasonable that the first clip is Oppenheim, introducing Bernstein. And the voice does sound very similar to that in the disputed quotation. But, then again, when I play clips of Bernstein back to back with the "too complex" clip, it doesn't sound too far off the mark either. Interestingly, Lambert immediately follows the Bernstein (mis?-)attribution with a quote from Van Dyke Parks, making it seem that Parks also believed Bernstein to be the source.  But Lambert doesn't give the source of the Parks quote, so that might not be the case.  Hard to tell without context.  JustinCope82 (talk) 00:52, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oppenheim or Bernstein...?