Talk:Jade use in Mesoamerica

message: Maybe we could add more information about origins of jade pieces: origin from source as axe forms, colors, whether or not they survive in the modern day. Upload an image from the Yale Art Gallery? What were celts repurposed into, and do we know their functions? Radicchios (talk) 16:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Celts

message: It might be wise to give specific examples of what objects were made out of the jade. For example, adding some information about the how the Maya carved figures of the piscine, maize, and avian tree deities out of the jade would help elucidate just how important jade was in their society.--Jer75 (talk) 14:01, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Going more in depth into the figurines that were skimmed over

message: I would recommend discussing the valuing of aesthetics over function in the creation of Mayan and Olmec art to give proper explanation and reasoning as to why archaeologists and art historians have deduced jade's ancient symbolic usage.--Hazenmayo96 (talk) 13:44, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussing the aesthetic value of jade over functionality

message: I think that the "Working jade" section would definitely benefit from a more detailed discussion of the techniques that craftsmen used to work jade, such as drilling, pecking, abrasion, incising, etc. This would also help to emphasize the labor-intensive nature of refining jade. I also think that the section should also better connect the working techniques to their symbolic functions, i.e. how drilling was thought to give "life" to a jade piece. --Alissa8 (talk) 07:01, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding more information about techniques for working jade

message: This article seems to be generalizing the Ancient Americans’ use of jade altogether, rather than noting the diversity of different cultures’ aesthetic appreciation of jade. The Olmecs, for instance, valued a more translucent look to their jade and carved it so that light could radiate through. On the other hand, the Mayans strove to create very richly green pieces of jade. Whereas the Olmec aesthetic interest in jade could be derived from the role of light in ancient religious practices, the Mayans aesthetic value of jade can likely be attributed to both religious and wealth symbols. An edit along these lines could elucidate to readers much information on the richness of the Ancient American cultures.
Sneham105 (talk) 07:06, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Steering away from generalizations on jade use in Ancient American cultures

message: The opening paragraph of the article covers too much information that could be qualified as unnecessary or extraneous. The article should begin with a simple, objective sentence describing what jade is and which societies used the material in Ancient America. Instead of opening with the statement "some view..." an explanation of the different visual practices involving jade should be highlighted. I also believe that this problem is further revealed in other parts of the article as there is more information on the European discovery of sources of jade than there is about its material uses. [[User:ajr75|ajr75]}, 20:26, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I definitely agree. Particularly in the "Sources in Mesoamerica" section, the article presents the topic in a way that highlights the Europeans who discovered the sources and how they did so, and focuses less on the significance of the sources of jade and the cultures and people in those geographic centers. I think the information in this section could be reframed to first discuss and highlight the sources of jade and then later discuss how these sources were archaeologically discovered. Another option could be to rename this section "Archaeological Search for Jade," and move it so that it is positioned after the "Uses" section.--Alissa8 (talk) 06:43, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

text: I agree with you both. The first paragraph is poorly written, and readers would be better served with a opening that frames the Mesoamerican context. Barbara.e.mundy (talk) 23:32, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Focusing more the uses of jade in Ancient America in place of its source

message: The second half of the lead in section seems too focused on the source and quality of the jade itself, not necessarily its use. Could we create a separate section or move it down to the "Sources" section, or perhaps make a new section (e.g. Appearance)? Then we could have the introduction more focused on uses for utility/religion. 
Radicchios (talk) 20:33, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead in paragraph: too specific

message: Can anyone confirm the quote by Michael Coe (and maybe add information concerning who he is)?  I only included it in my reworking of the article because it was already there, but noted that it was very similar to the grammar and style of the previous version. Thanks!
Salmar 23:16, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michael Coe quote? 

message: Surprisingly the exception to the rule that neolithic cultures all used jade is in North America. Nephrite was strewn all over central Wyoming but the indians don't seem to have used it. Similarly there was a lot of Jade in the Kobuk Valley in Alaska and in British Columbia but it doesn't seem to have been used by the natives.204.227.223.53 16:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not Used in North America 

message: I made some changes to the page and add external links, in fact I change the China part, Dr. Coe is a renown archaeologist, mainly in the Maya area of Guatemala.Authenticmaya 03:39, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jade page Changes

message: proposal: Costa Rican jade tradition to Jade use in Mesoamerica
*oppose. The sites/cultures in precolumbian Costa Rica (eg Linea Vieja or Guanacaste) are not usually associated with the Mesoamerican culture area. Instead they are usually grouped under the notion of an Isthmo-Colombian cultural area, or the now increasingly deprecated "Intermediate Area" concept. Some sites, at some periods, do exhibit some Mesoamericanesque traits and may also be treated as having participated in Mesoamerican cultural exchange ("southwestern Mesoamerica" periphery), but the jadework tradition being discussed here has probably a closer affinity with Isthmo-Colombian practices. No good reason to merge these two. --cjllw ʘ TALK 07:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge discussion 

message: The two illustrated Mayan pectorals of unknown provenance are rather obvious falsifications. Their use in this article may only have the purpose to falsely 'authenticate' them. They should be removed.Retal (talk) 19:50, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maya pectoral illustrations: falsifications! 

message: A few comments pertinent to this article:
Recent archaeological fieldwork by Roquette in the Middle Motagua River Valley shows that jade was worked by both elite and non-elite households.
Nephrite does, in fact, exist in Mesoamerica although it is a common misconception that it doesn't - it has been found in the Middle Motagua River Valley near jadeite (ref: "From Stone to Jewel: Jade in Ancient Maya Religion and Rulership," Taube & Ishihara-Brito)
The 'Working Jade' section of this article could greatly benefit from a more detailed discussion. It would be worth mentioning the percussion and abrasion techniques which represent the two main actions taken in working jade and then discussing further particulars Saraaltuna (talk) 13:32, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual Inaccuracies on this Page 

message: There is quite a lack of references throughout the article to where the information came from. Additionally, some of the sources appear to be vague and unverified, as in the introduction where it is written "some view..." and "it was thought..."
:"some view..." and "it was thought..." Are WP:WEASEL weasel words and can be removed. If you want to improve the article you are welcome too as long as you add reliable citations. Senor Cuete (talk) 23:28, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of Citations 

message: The opening sentence of the article refers to an unidentified 'some' group of people and is overly wordy, bringing in unnecessary and distracting terms like 'influenced' and 'conceptualized'. It could be shortened to say just 'Jade was a rare and valued commodity among...'. The lead-in paragraph should then continue on in the same order that the topics are presented in the article, briefly outlining the sources of jade and then its uses, spiritual significance, and practical value. This would provide a much clearer, more concise, and more accurate introduction to the topic and to the contents of the article. The remaining paragraphs currently in the lead-in section should be moved into their own section under a heading like 'types of jade'. Ecc47 (talk) 00:31, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead-in section needs replacement 

message: The article says:"Kinich Ahau, was often depicted in jade and other materials with a mirror on his forehead." Generally the god with a mirror in his head is regarded as God K - K'awiil. Some authors think that he's a god of Jupiter. In the Maya codices he seems to be a god of other things as well. I question the quality of the cited source, since this is not the consensus in mainstream scholarship on this subject. Should this be removed? Senor Cuete (talk) 15:55, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kinich Ahau