Talk:Johann Baptist Wanhal

message: Dittersdorf is not normally considered a great composer, but one editor insists on referring to him as the great Carl Ditters von Dittersdorf. I tagged the article since I think this violates NPOV and I assume he will revert it to say that again. If not, we can de-tag it. Gene Ward Smith 18:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to mention the fact that labelling him in this way constitutes "peacock words". It would look extremely odd, for example, to say that Beethoven studied (briefly) with "the great" Franz Joseph Haydn, or Heidegger with "the great" Husserl.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The great Dittersdorf

message: is it possible that the middle name just means "baptised as" (Jan Krtitel = John/Johann Baptist or Baptized? Vanhal or the other way around , Vanhal, Baptized John?) Maybe not that great a stretch then- I do not know. Schissel | Sound the Note! 06:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not in the German form, no. In order to say "baptized" one would used the word "getauft". "Johann Baptist" is adapted from Latin and means "John the Baptist". It is a common given name in many European languages (Giovanni Battista, Jean-Baptiste, Juan Bautista, etc.), but is rarely used in English. Exceptional English examples include John Baptist Purcell, John Baptiste Ford, and John Baptist Wolf.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

text: These are irrelevant misspellings. He signed his name "Wanhal".--178.191.241.26 (talk) 08:42, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

text: If you look at the same church records, you will see that he and his sisters were born "Manhal", but that his father was recorded as "Wanhal" at the time of his death, and his mother was "Waṅhal" at the time of hers, some three decades later. That this Bohemian spelling was not used by officials in Vienna is no big wonder, but there is ample evidence that Waṅhal himself prefered it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.248.13.2 (talk) 12:54, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name furthermore 

message: This article is obviously in need of getting cleaned up and extended, where a greater diversity of sources should be consulted, and the importance of information weighted. As it is today, the biography does not mention what I believe is the single most important fact in his life, viz., that he through his own skills and the political climate of his days managed to buy himself out of serfdom, and was the first Viennese composer to make a living from the burgeoning middle class. Until today, the "Style" section, which barely discusses his style at all, had no mention of any of the music he wrote for the last 30 years of his career.
I don't wish merely to complain about this; I'm going to try to clean the article up in the coming period. I am, however, at a loss about what to do with the "List of Selected Works". As it stands today, it makes the article appear as more than the stub it really is, but the value of the section seems limited as it stands today. I guess what I am failing to grasp is exactly why it is organized as it is, and what one has tried to achieve by making it that way. The list seems to be a combination of a list of the entirety of his works, and a list of works that have been published respectively in historical and recent times. I am not convinced that all of this ought to be included in such a short article, and even less that it ought to be combined. What use is, for instance, the lists of symphonies published in Paris and Amsterdam? This is something I believe would be of interest primarily for the specialist reader, who would also want to know where one can find extant versions of these. The list of chamber music seems to have been intended as a list over the works available on record. However, no mention is made of the enormous majority of his works which have not been recorded, and most of the music available is not included either. Furthermore, no music for solo piano – the primary genre from which he made his livelihood for the last 30 years of his life – is included. No mention is made of the fact that the operas are lost, and the main article mentions three rather than two. Is "Caper Quartet" the name of an ensemble, or of a specific concerto? If the latter, no mention is made of the fact in David Wyn Jones' doctoral dissertation, and if the former, one should either remove it or extend the same courtesy to the rest of the recorded examples included.
I would like to be able to do more than merely complain about this, but I am at a loss about exactly what to do with this list. There is a list like it in the article on Leopold Hofmann, but in the more developed articles on Salieri and Pleyel more sensible solutions have been found. For now, I think the best course of action would be to emulate the entry on Salieri, by making a very short summary on the main page, and develop the list in a separate article. I think it would be far more useful if it was completely reshaped as a sober list over the entirety of his works, rather than mashing an incomplete list of the entirety of his oeuvre, a list over historical and contemporary scores and a list of modern recordings together. To the degree that these will be interesting for the non-specialist they should be included, but it should be done in a more sensible, consistent manner. Any thoughts on how this ought to be done? Sirion123 (talk) 14:52, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I would move the entire selected works section to a new article called List of compositions by Johann Baptist Wanhal.  There, the list can be expanded and made more thorough.  If a very short list of well-known pieces stays on the parent article, that's fine, but a list as large as it currently is should be in a separate article.DavidRF (talk) 15:19, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the input. I fully agree, but wanted to check with a more experienced Wikipedian before doing anything rash. I'll see to it later tonight, and supply a link to a separate article, retaining a short comment on the number of compositions he wrote in the genres people are most likely to find interesting in the parent article. Sirion123 (talk) 15:55, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  For some reason this article was not linked to List of compositions by Johann Baptist Wanhal. I added the link. Admittedly the catalogue article is mostly a mess. Its number of symphonies contradict the numbers found everywhere else, has multiple "Op. 10"s, and does not mention Op. 23 and Op. 25 that can be easily found in IMSLP. But at least let's make the link happen now. Ahyangyi (talk) 12:02, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Future of the Article, and the List of Selected Works 

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thread_title:  External links modified