Talk:Seventh-day Adventist Church/Archive 8

message: It's been a year since this article was considered for Featured Article status and failed. It has come a long way since then -- does everyone agree? I would like to gather support for a campaign to make it a featured article. I'm sure that's something we'd all very much like to see achieved. Tonicthebrown 14:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's Make This a Featured Article!! 

message: I have done a lot of work on the article in the last week. The article has been restructured according to the suggestions made by  (see below), which I thought were very good. I've also done a big cleanup of the Origins section to make it more encyclopaedic. There is still a lot to be done, however. The second half of the article needs a fair bit of work IMO Tonicthebrown 14:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: What does everyone think about the new lead intro? I tried to make it more conforming to Wikipedia and more informative. Before it was not really a summary, and I think this does a better job at summarizing the article. Any thoughts? --Maniwar (talk) 04:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: Removed  - doesn't look notable. Colin MacLaurin 16:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: There appears to be an ongoing edit war over the inclusion of critical links under External Links. Perhaps there needs to be a discussion and compromise. IMO there are currently too many critical links, it appears as if someone just wants to savagely attack the church. Suggestion: how about having just 2 or 3 critical links, to websites which are critical in a fair and constructive way. The rest can be placed on the Criticism of the Seventh-day Adventist Church article. Tonicthebrown 06:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Critical links

message: I think it's more accurate to say that Seventh-day Adventists follow the biblical teaching of a seventh day sabbath in the intro rather than saying Adventists are known for their seventh-day sabbath teaching. Adventists aren't teaching that concept. Adventists follow that concept which was taught by God to the Israelites.
: Thank you for your contribution. However, claiming that SDAs are following the biblical teaching is not NPOV. This would be raised in a peer review and we'd have to correct it. If you would like to outline an argument for Sabbath keeping, the best place to do so is probably the Sabbath article. Tonicthebrown 06:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be NPOV to say that the Old Testament teaches that the Sabbath could be kept. I believe that noone would dispute that. However the majority of Christians believe that the Sabbath does not apply to today. Remember that Wikipedia is about presenting the different majority views, in due proportion. A more NPOV statement would be "Adventists believe that keeping the Sabbath is biblical". Regards, Colin MacLaurin 16:51, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sabbath keeping 

message: I was under the impression that SDA doctrine considered using alcohol to make merry to be a sin. This article seems to indicate that the official position is abstentionism (cf. Christian views of alcohol). Can someone clarify, preferably with sources? --Flex (talk|contribs) 17:36, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Abstinence from alcohol is outlined in the 27 fundamentals as well as the SDA Church Manual. Tonicthebrown 02:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Many Adventists would probably call alcohol "sin", yes. You'd almost certainly be excluded from leadership if you drank. As for membership -- to become a member you must agree to the Adventist baptismal vow, which includes a promise not to drink, sell or manufacture alcohol. However, in practice I doubt a church would disfellowship someone just because they had a few drinks... Cheers! Tonicthebrown 22:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Bible makes it clear that it is drunkenness that is the sin.--Kroma 03:37, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Alcohol

message: Does the SDA church still forbid members from drinking coffee and tea? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.191.19.42 (talk) 18:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you are thinking of the Latter Day Saints? V-Man737 01:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text: As part of the "health message" it is still encouraged generally not to drink coffee (and other caffeinated products I think). An interesting Adventist Review article with broader ramifications about the use of "drugs" in general can be found here. Ansell 04:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I wasn't meaning the LDS.  I'm aware of their Word of Wisdom.  Adventists I have known did not drink beverages containing caffeine and I didn't know if it was treated the same way as alcohol (totaly banned) or simply spoken against. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.191.17.168 (talk) 14:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, healthy principles are still taught. But I just checked the 28 Fundamentals and both the old and the new baptismal vows, and they don't mention coffee/caffeine but only alcohol, tobacco and narcotics. Yes, it is still taught. But contrary to some people I meet ("Oh, you're a Seventh-day Adventist? So you don't drink tea or coffee?") it is far from the most emphasized or important thing [Hello... "Jesus?"]. Actually here at Avondale College they installed a coffee machine in the Caf (cafeteria) this year. This is probably not typical, although Avondale is not one of the most liberal tertiary institutions the church operates. Hope this helps, Colin MacLaurin 09:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coffee & Tea? 

message: How about a nice infobox? Incorporate the church logo into it. I just searched all the current good articles and featured articles relating to religion and only found one religious movement with an infobox, the Orthodox Church in America. We're basically pioneering.  What do you think? An infobox is a very useful super-quick reference. Colin MacLaurin 15:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know how I feel about this. The Adventist's don't have enough 'significant' people (or maybe they do) to do an infobox. Maybe if there was a generic "Religious Leader" infobox. Yet, I do like the concept. Hmmmm, just thinking out loud. Could we justify on the Wikipedia world that the Seventh-day Adventist's need their own infobox? Any other comments? I do like the setup of the Orthodox Church in America's infobox. --Maniwar (talk) 16:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I do think it's a great idea. Which one would you have in mind? --Maniwar (talk) 13:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I made a proposal here . Don't know if you want to comment. --Maniwar (talk) 22:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I like the example, but it seems to be more of an institution infobox, rather than an individual infobox. If you're shooting for institution, well done. However, if you're going for an individual how about something like this?
*Seventh-day Adventist Church
*[[Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg -->]]
*Motto ??
*subject_name:
*date_of_birth:
*place_of_birth:
*date_of_death:
*place_of_death:
*Position:
*Position began:
*Position ended:
*Predecessor:
*Successor:
*Budget:
*Website:
--Maniwar (talk) 17:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: There is already an infobox for religious leaders - see Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Society#Religious leaders. Someone there has suggested a colour to be used for Seventh-day Adventist religious leaders. I am not opposed to the idea of an SDA religious leaders infobox, but cannot see a need for it. Also, sometime we should propose the Christian (or religious?) denominations infobox at Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Proposed. One could also contact WikiProject Religion and/or WikiProject Christianity. For now, I plan to implement the suggested box for this page using a generic template. Colin MacLaurin 10:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just saw this. OK, go for it. I support it. --Maniwar (talk) 01:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: Someone who knows what their doing, needs to find all the Joseph Bates entries and change them to Joseph Bates (Adventist) because the Joseph Bates page is now an ambig. page with a murder from North Carolina. I don't know how to search for all of the entries to change them. --Maniwar (talk) 01:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Go to the Joseph Bates page and click on "What links here" (else go to Special:Whatlinkshere/Joseph_Bates). It will show the pages which link to this page (they usually shouldn't since it is a disambiguation page). At the time of writing there is one such page, and it doesn't legitimitely point to either Joseph Bates (Adventist) or Joseph Earl Bates, so I'm leaving it for now. Colin MacLaurin 14:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Joseph Bates

message: has this article ever been featured? i think it should. PrincessOfHearts 13:53, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured