Talk:Arabic numerals/naming

message: *For
**Reason 1:  It's the term actually used by English-speaking non-academics. Arthur Rubin | (talk) 22:39, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Arabic numerals

message: *For
* "Arabic numeral" is a very common colloquial term for Hindu-Arabic (so appears to fit one of the many criteria for naming on wikipedia (see below)), but it's not appropriate in the more formal context of the title of an encyclopedia article, which should be more rigorous in reflecting academic norms. 
** Reason 1:  In accordance to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), which says:
:::# "...the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things." Please see the disambiguation page at Arabic numerals (disambiguation). Although "Arabic numerals" is a common colloquial name, it is hardly ever used in academic articles about the numerals, like this one is supposed to be.
:::#"...if we ignore potential ambiguity, the ideal of simplicity can be at odds with the ideal of precision." There are a bunch of different "Arabic numerals." This makes the title unprecise.
:::#"...where the common name of a subject is misleading (For example: "tidal wave" would be a misleading title since these phenomena have nothing to do with tides), then it is sometimes reasonable to fall back on a well-accepted alternative." "Arabic numerals" is listed as a misnomer, not only on wikipedia, but elsewhere in academic articles.
:::#"...we need to temper common usage when the commonly used term is unreasonably misleading or commonly regarded as offensive to one or more groups of people." From personal experience (if at all it counts), I can say it is misleading, since most people don't even know about the Indian origins of the numerals. More importantly, it is misleading because there are other uses of "Arabic numerals", and there is a possibility of confusion. 
:::# The rationale behind the common names principle is to allow recognintion by people and search engines. "Hindu-Arabic numerals" is not all that different from "Arabic numerals", and in my opinion, recognition by people and search engines would not be that big a problem, especially because the first thing the article would say is that they are also known as Arabic numerals, and Arabic numerals is a substring of Hindu-Arabic numerals. I agree this would have been an issue if we were replacing it by an entirely different and obscure set of characters. For encyclopedias like Britannica, this must be a very serious issue, since they earn their livelihood out of the encyclopedia, and they would do anything to make their articles more recognizable to people and search engines. There is a good reason why they still chose to name their article "Hindu-Arabic numerals."
** Reason 2:  Disambiguation issue (Arabic numerals (disambiguation))
** Reason 3:  Encyclopedic precedent All other encyclopedias like Britannica , refer to the symbols exclusively as "Hindu-Arabic" everywhere they are mentioned. Articles in research papers and other encyclopedias (that are written by professional people who are rigorous scholars, who are paid a lot of money for their work, who are held accountable for what they write, and are peer-reviewed at many levels) exclusively use the term "Hindu-Arabic numerals".
**  Reason 4:  Preferred academically According to another article on Britannica, titled "The Hindu-Arabic system" , the numerals are "commonly spoken of as Arabic but preferably as Hindu-Arabic." Definitely preferred by scholars, e.g., as per Peter Wardley   
:::"`Hindu-arabic' is preferred over `arabic' as a more accurate and useful description for two reasons: first, it places primacy on the region where this system of numerical representation had its origins, the Indian sub-continent; and, second, it draws attention to the difference between the numerals currently used in Arabic countries and those adopted by Europeans after the introduction of various adaptations. The latter, of course, has become the internationally accepted system of numerical representation."  deeptrivia (talk) 18:28, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Hindu-Arabic numerals