Talk:John Moore-Brabazon, 1st Baron Brabazon of Tara

message: The opening paragraph states that Brabazon was the first Englishman to fly in England but this book says that his first flight was in France and that A.V. Roe was the first Englishman in England. See the Roe article for details here. I propose that the lede be changed to reflex this and the book added as a reference. Bjmullan (talk) 17:42, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly Turner knew the people involved in the early days of aviation in Great Britain and should be considered reliable, but I seem to remember other names put forward for this honour. How about this: "In February 1909 the Short brothers were contracted to build six Wright Flyers, valued at £8,400, in the UK, becoming the first British company to manufacture aeroplanes in series. On 19-27 March the first "British Aero Show" took place at Olympia in London, a prominent exhibit being Moore-Brabazon's Voisin. In this on 30 April he made the first accredited flight by an Englishman in England, flying a distance of 137m (450ft) at Leysdown, Isle of Sheppey. Then, on 14 May, in his rebuilt British Army Aeroplane No 1, Cody few for more than a mile over Laffan's Plain, Hampshire. ... At Lea Marshes, Essex, AV Roe accomplished tentative straight-line flights 200-300 yards in his all-British triplane on 23 July, but this modest achievement was thrown into dramatic perspective only two days later when Frenchman Louis Blériot flew across the Channel." So perhaps Roe was the first flight by an Englishman in an English aeroplane in England, whereas Brabazon's flight was in an American aircraft, albeit one built by Shorts. Dunne may have flown earlier, but in secret, in Scotland, but Brabazon seems to have made the first official powered flight in England. --TraceyR (talk) 00:39, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The 2 May flight is described in his Times obituary as the "first flight accomplished by any Briton in Great Britain" it mentions that a RAeC committee in 1929 looked at the claims of Brabazon, A V Roe and A H Philips and decided on Brabazon for the honour. MilborneOne (talk) 19:20, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

text: Further in another Times obituary "It was on the "Bird of Passage" his second Voison that he made the first powered aeroplane flights by a Briton in Britain" it mentions that  Cody was an american-citizen and Farman was a French-born Briton living in France. As above on 30 October 1909 in a Short No. 2 he won the Daily Mail £1000 prize for the first all-british aeroplane to be flown by a Briton in a circular mile. MilborneOne (talk) 19:25, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

text: The 1929 committee dismissed the claim that Philips had flown in 1887 and Roe at Brooklands in June 1908 so he was declared the first British subject to make an aeroplane flight in the British Isles. For some reason Briish/Britain has been changed over the years to English/England but that is not what the contempary articles say. MilborneOne (talk) 19:31, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  First but not in England 

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