Talk:Staff (music)

message: It would be nice if this article, or probably a new separate article discussed the historical development and typical layouts of a full symphony orchestra score (+choir), band score, misc instrumental scores, etc.  This page looks like a good starting place for ideas for organizing this kind of information.  The sheet music article also seems to want to relate somewhat to this idea, although neither this page, that one, nor any other pages that I've seen discuss this topic at all.  If I have some time, perhaps I could begin such an article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.70.15.180 (talk) 17:51, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree that this would be a useful topic, but it probably belongs on the sheet music page, not here. —Wahoofive (talk) 23:27, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Score 

message: :"In runes stave is vertical line. Staveles runes exist. in Polish language stawi prononce stave mean put into standing position"
This doesn't seem to have anything to do with music, so I've removed it. Puckdude 05:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Runes 

message: Really... bad. Buster 18:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad Article 

message: I was very disappointed to find absolutely nothing about the history and development of the staff. --a sincere reader  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.201.182 (talk) 19:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is some here: Musical notation and here: Neume. But agreed, this page could use some more history. —Wahoofive (talk) 16:44, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Alright, I looked around on some other articles, and found some information [on the history of the staff] and paraphrased it into here.  These music pages didn't have any citations, though.  I'll see if I can find any. Rustyfence (talk) 14:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

text: C.Sachs in his "The Rise of Music in the Ancient World" suggests that staff notation, which is a bit illogical for the western music based on octaves (why if you put note on a line, note octave higher will go between lines?) is reminiscent of third-based music from early-medieval Europe. Maybe some more research has been done on this topic within last 60 years? 83.31.186.113 (talk) 21:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've rewritten the history section to provide more detail. Still looking for an image example of Guido's staff with the F-line colored red and the C-line colored yellow. The reason for the seeming illogic mentioned above is that at the time staves were invented people thought of melodies in terms of hexachords, so octave transposition really didn't enter into their consciousness. This predated "third-based music" -- the principal polyphonic music of the time was parallel organum. —Wahoofive (talk) 18:22, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing History! 

message: http://method-behind-the-music.com/mechanics/physicsPhysics of Sound
Traveling Waves
Sound is produced when something vibrates. The vibrating body causes the medium (water, air, etc.) around it to vibrate. Vibrations in air are called traveling longitudinal waves, which we can hear. Sound waves consist of areas of high and low pressure called compressions and rarefactions, respectively. Shown in the diagram below is a traveling wave. The shaded bar above it represents the varying pressure of the wave. Lighter areas are low pressure (rarefactions) and darker areas are high pressure (compressions). One wavelength of the wave is highlighted in red. This pattern repeats indefinitely. The wavelength of voice is about one meter long. The wavelength and the speed of the wave determine the pitch, or frequency of the sound. Wavelength, frequency, and speed are related by the equation speed = frequency * wavelength. Since sound travels at 343 meters per second at standard temperature and pressure (STP), speed is a constant. Thus, frequency is determined by speed / wavelength. The longer the wavelength, the lower the pitch. The 'height' of the wave is its amplitude. The amplitude determines how loud a sound will be. Greater amplitude means the sound will be louder.
Properties of a wave
Interference
When two waves meet, there can be two kinds of interference patterns; constructive and destructive. Constructive inteference is when two waveforms are added together. The peaks add with the peaks, and the troughs add with the troughs, creating a louder sound. Destructive interference occurs when two waves are out of phase (the peaks on one line up with troughs on the other). In this, the peaks cancel out the troughs, creating a diminished waveform. For example, if two waveforms that are exactly the same are added, the amplitude doubles, but when two opposite waveforms are added, they cancel out, leaving silence.
Constructive and destructive interference
Standing Waves
Vibration inside a tube forms a standing wave. A standing wave is the result of the wave reflecting off the end of the tube (whether closed or open) and interfering with itself. When sound is produced in an instrument by blowing it, only the waves that will fit in the tube resonate, while other frequencies are lost. The longest wave that can fit in the tube is the fundamental, while other waves that fit are overtones . Overtones are multiples of the fundamental. The areas of highest vibration are called antinodes (labeled 'A' on the diagram), while the areas of least vibration are called nodes (labeled 'N' in the diagram). In an open pipe, the ends are antinodes. However, in a pipe closed at one end, the closed end is a node, while the blown end is an antinode. Thus, closed pipes yield only half the harmonics.
Fundamental and harmonic standing waves
Transverse Waves
If a string that is fixed on both ends is bowed or plucked, such as in a violin, vibrations are formed that are in a standing wave pattern, having nodes at the fixed ends, and an antinode in the center. Several harmonics are also produced, in a similar way to the standing wave.
Different modes of transverse waves
Overtones
Overtones are the other frequencies besides the fundamental that exist in musical instruments. Instruments of different shapes and actions produce different overtones. The overtones combine to form the characteristic sound of the instrument. For example, both the waves below are the same frequency, and therefore the same note. But their overtones are different, and therefore their sounds are different. Note that the violin's jagged waveform produces a sharper sound, while the smooth waveform of the piano produces a purer sound, closer to a sine wave. Click on each wave to hear what it sounds like. Keep in mind that all are playing the same note.
A sine wave
The waveform of a violin
THe waveform of a piano
Try It Yourself - Interact With Sound
To help understand how sound works, download MouSing. It's a software theremin: an electronic instrument that allows direct control of pitch and amplitude. By moving your mouse horizontally across the screen, you alter the wavelength of the sound being produced, and thus the pitch (displayed in Hz on the bottom of the program). The higher the frequency, the higher the pitch. By moving the mouse vertically, you alter the volume, or amplitude, of the wave.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shiblee Shahed (talk • contribs) 09:10, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  physics of sound  

message: Update: Ok, I found a partial answer to my question which prompted more questions.  I won't repeat all of it here, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Piano#Update:_The_diagram_looks_wrong_.28was:_.22Explain_the_8_and_15_in_the_diagram_which_shows_the_range_of_the_piano.3F.22.29
But, I have one additional unanswered question that I didn't ask there--how is it that 8 represents one octave and 15 represents two octaves?  It seems to me it should be 8 and 16 (or maybe 7 and 15).
Original Question:  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhkramer (talk • contribs) 18:57, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The numbering of intervals is inclusive of the points on both ends, so a second is two adjacent notes. Two notes with one in between (ignoring some details) is a third, even though it's twice as far. So the arithmetic doesn't really work. You have to move up seven "white keys" to get to the octave, but since we count both ends, that make the interval of an eighth, or octave; twice that far is 14 notes, which adding both ends gives a Fifteenth. Music terminology was definitely not created by scientists. Hope this explanation helps; more detail available at Interval (music). —Wahoofive (talk) 21:18, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Staves (staffs?) extending beyond 4 octaves? 

message: The article gets this wrong. It gives no indication that the earlier and indeed primary application – at least of "grand stave [or staff]" – is for a more-or-less fictitious entity with eleven lines, the middle one being a line for middle C. I cited OED in support of my fix for this, but was summarily reverted. Standards are lower since I was editing here, that's for sure. I have applied a "Dubious" tag, and it should stay until there is a careful improvement on this point. One that is supported by sources.
49.190.56.203 (talk) 00:13, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great and grand stave (or staff) 

message: Even though the word "pentagram", indeed referring to the five lines of the present-day musical staff, has seen occasional use in the music world, I was not able to trace the origin of its use, and major dictionaries all seem to list the word as referring only to the five-pointed star. Does any additional source exist that can justify this use, or is this word merely an artifical borrowing from another language, such as Spanish pentagrama? – StrongestStrike (talk) 12:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The use of "pentagram" as an alternative to "staff"/"stave"