Talk:Hardcore wrestling

message: is it different or the same?
Personally, i see it as different. Hardcore has little to no blood, where as deathmatch has tons of blood.
And if it is different, i would like to see a section about it
--sin-man 09:08, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A Deathmatch tends to be the most severe, with a heavy emphasis on the usage of foreign objects to induce bleeding. The types of foreign objects and the nature of the foreign objects are used so as to be extremely graphic and violent in nature, with wrestlers frequently suffering major legitimate injuries. Because it is graphic in nature, it is banned in many jurisdictions, although the deathmatch style has a sizeable cult following, especially in Japan. 
feel free to expand. Zzzzz 14:20, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hardcore VS Deathmach 

message: Maybe I missed something, but I don't think lobsters or pistols are common weapons in hardcore matches.
Also, I think maybe there should be a different section for weapons that are really only seen in Japanese deathmatches (scorpions, pirhanas).
I'll wait a few days for someone to dispute me before I change it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.225.94.94 (talk) 08:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Common" weapons 

message: This page is locked so I can't change the link, but the "foreign object" link should be "Foreign object (professional wrestling)|foreign object". See: foreign object. So if someone could kindly change it, that would be great. Nikki311 03:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link Change 

message: These are examples of garbage wrestling (the term) being used in a non-negative way. Garbage wrestling didn't start out as a negative term and is not an exclusively negative term even today. 
This is a usage of Garbage wrestling by the wife of Alex Rizzo (big dick dudley). This is a non-negative use of the term garbage wrestling by people in the industry.
"Electra (Donna Adamo) gave the Torch a career bio on him. He left ECW after "a falling out" with Paul Heyman and worked in XPW, where he also trained guys. "He wasn't Chris Benoit in the ring, but he knew garbage wrestling," she said. After XPW he went back east and wrestled in Boston. A year ago he was in a serious motorcycle accident; Electra says he actually died but the doctors were able to bring him back. Then 6 months ago he was in another accident that left him with a broken neck."
This is a use from the site Slam! wrestling 
"Awesome has competed primarily in Japan's FMW promotion under the name G The Gladiator. He has been engaged in a longstanding feud with Masato Tanaka. The two have had some bitter brawls, taking the level of Japanese garbage wrestling to new heights."
That hardly seems like a negative term used there.
From a customer review of ECW: one night stand 
"This match is the best when it comes to straight-up garbage wrestling. Alot of weapons, blood, and violence!!"
From http://encycl.opentopia.com/term/Terry_Funk
Later in Funk's career, his style changed from wrestling traditional southern style wrestling matches to the more demanding and brutal style of garbage wrestling. As a result, Funk started to gain a new fanbase of fans who loved his hardcore style and brawling. 
12.96.162.45 17:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Garbage wrestling 

message: I do not appriciate my edits from the article being removed. I further think it is completely out of line to leave insulting messages on my page suggesting that I am "experimenting" by making edits to this article. As has come up before, it is improper for editors of this article to apply their own arbitrary personal standards in determining which wrestlers should be included or excluded by name in this article. It is also improper to demand that certain information be sourced while other information in the article is not held to the same standards. I will remind you that you should be assuming good faith and engaging in a civil manner. These are far from the first edits I have made to this article. 
These are two justifications for information you have removed. If you are going to remove them again, you need to explain why and then explain what the exact standard is for inclusion in the lists in the article. 
Dusty Rhodes - Dusty Rhodes has wrestled the style for years. He worked in the old ECW. 
The Rude Boy - JCW. 
12.96.162.45 18:21, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please be reasonable. If you wish to make drasting changes to this article, I would first ask that all edits to the article stop so that this can be discussed. We need to come to consensus on what exactly constitutes WP:V for a hardcore wrestler or now apparently a hardcore promotion. WP:V is not a licence for arbirary behavior. I would ask yet one more time that you stop editing and engaging in a discussion on this. 12.96.162.45 18:45, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am being perfectly reasonable.  I am asking you to comply with Wikipedia policy.  You are consistently ignoring Wikipedia policy by restoring unsourced information.  I have asked you repeatedly to cite sources, and you have ignored this.  Regards. One Night In Hackney 18:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am asking you to discuss the matter rather than engage in an edit war. I am asking you to  mutually discuss what the standard is for the list to meet WP:V. I have given you two examples which you have rejected and am asking you to discuss what the standard is so that we can come to a mutual understanding of it. Accusing me of "consistently ignoring Wikipedia policy by restoring unsourced information" is not civil and not helpful. In order to meet your request, I need to know what standard you are applying and am asking for a short amount of time to try and meet that standard. The heart of Wikipedia is working together to improve these articles. I'm asking you one more time to help do that. 12.96.162.45 18:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect, I haven't rejected anything as you have not provided a standard.  You said "Dusty Rhodes - Dusty Rhodes has wrestled the style for years. He worked in the old ECW" and "The Rude Boy - JCW".  That is not citing a source, please see WP:RS and WP:CITE.  I have no objections to anything I have removed being added back to the article if it is properly cited. One Night In Hackney 19:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are showing me no respect at all. I ask for discussion and you cite policy. I add a new section to the discussion asking for your (or anyone else's input) and you write this saying that I have not provided a standard. I used simple examples because I hoped that you had some degree of expertise in this subject and I was hoping to get an impression of what you views are.  First you say working in ECW is not proof and now you say its not proof because I didn't provide a Wiki citation to a source as proof.  Which is it? 12.96.162.45 19:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, please see WP:V, WP:RS and WP:CITE.  As I have repeatedly explained earlier, we don't write articles from memory, we write them from sources.  We don't decide which wrestlers are hardcore, we note which wrestlers have been desribed as hardcore by reliable sources.  Discussion is frivolous if you persist in ignoring this. One Night In Hackney 19:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest you read what I have said rather than build straw men to knock over. The complexity of the issue is in what "describe as hardcore" actually means. There are direct descriptions such as calling someone hardcore. But there are also indirect descriptions such as holding a hardcore title or working in an exclusively hardcore promotion. As anyone who has edited these articles can tell you, there is no mechanical process here. What one person might consider a description of a wrestler as hardcore by reliable sources, another might not. See the examples in this paragraph. Constant quotation of obvious policy that we both know has resulting in pages of writing over what amounts to a simple problem. If you just engage in a reasonable discussion and leave the obnoxious policy quoting and accusations at the door, this can be quickly resolved. 12.96.162.45 19:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sigh!  Instead of carrying on from your indefensible position, why don't you just find the sources like I suggested over an hour ago.  We don't write articles from opinion or memory, we write them from sources.  The simple problem can be resolved by you finding the sources, I cannot resolve it for you.  There is nothing left to discuss, I can't make it much clearer. One Night In Hackney 19:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Sigh! Instand of trying to get the last word in, why don't you put your time into the dicussion going on in the other section of the article that I started. You do know that its there don't you. Its the next section down the page where sources and standards are being discused.  Or are you too busy filling up my talk page with more useless citations of obvious policies? 12.96.162.45 19:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  edits to this article 

message: I've gone to a great deal of work putting citations in for material that was removed today regarding hardcore titles and hardcore promotions. If anyone disputes the citations, please discuss before removing any entires. I would also encourage anyone with time to work on additional citations. 12.96.162.45 21:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  title and promotion information restored with citations 

message: their should be apart on the page that lists hardcore matches  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhauth11 (talk • contribs) 05:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  matches 

message: I think having a Criticism section at the bottom of the article is suitable considering top wrestling stars like Ric Flair and Giant Baba have notably ridiculed it. I wrote one myself that has since been removed, but I think a more condensed one would make sense. If no one has an argument toward this, I'll probably resurrect my old writing for this article and trim it down. Cale (talk) 21:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section 

message: Please, make a section of ultraviolent wrestling. It isn't the same thing as hardcore.--109.170.14.101 (talk) 10:05, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it is...--UnquestionableTruth-- 11:44, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

text: It's the same thing to a degree. --UnquestionableTruth-- 21:45, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultraviolent wrestling 

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thread_title:  External links modified