Talk:Caliber conversion device

message: I've see two types of conversions; the type covered in the article is cartridge shaped, and uses the firearm barrel to alter the cartridge used, but not the caliber.  The other is longer, with a sub-caliber barrel that sits inside the firearm's barrel, and allows a change in caliber as well.  This latter type is most common with shotguns, which use inserts to convert, say, a 12 ga. double to a 28 or .410, but I've also seen them available for other firearms--they work best with break opens.  One I've personally used was a .22 Mag/.38 Special adapter for use in a T/C Contender, which was nice in that it didn't need the offset firing pin adapter needed in single firing pin guns, you just switch the hammer switch and use the T/C's rimfire pin.  Truly odd are the rimfire inserts for shotguns, which may be designed with the insert barrel offset so the centerfire firing pin falls on the rim of the rimfire cartridge.  Here's a source of just about any conversion you can imagine:  http://www.mcace.com/Insertsindex.htm  Here's a maker of short subgauge shotgun inserts:  http://www.chambermates.com/  and here's Briley's full length tube sets:  http://www.briley.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=16  scot 19:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Two basic types?

message: As per my discussion with Yaf (see  here) I'm backing up the current article contents so I can restructure the article to cover the whole range of cartridge conversions.  After the structure is done, this content can be merged back into the appropriate section(s).
===Start of inclusion===
is a device commonly sold for several 0.30-caliber-chambered rifles.  These devices enable the bolt-action rifles for which they are made to use 32 ACP cartridges in addition to the cartridges in the caliber for which the rifles are chambered. The caliber conversion sleeves resemble fired cartridge cases in the rifle calibers for which they are made, but are made of steel instead of brass, and have an opening where the primer would normally sit into which the 32 ACP cartridge is inserted, prior to chambering the combined 32 ACP round and caliber conversion sleeve in the rifle. No modifications to the rifle are required.
Three such 0.30-caliber rifles commonly have such caliber conversion sleeves available, for rifles chambered in the following cartridges:
*.308 Winchester, which use bullets that are 0.308 inches in diameter
*30-06, which use bullets that are 0.308 inches in diameter
*.303 British, which use bullets that are 0.311 inches in diameter.
Caliber conversion sleeves work because the common 32 ACP bullet is 0.3125 inches in diameter, and will fire in practice in rifles with only slightly smaller bores than the 32 ACP bullet diameter, provided the difference in the rifle chamber size is properly compensated for with a caliber conversion sleeve.
There are limitations on the use of such caliber conversion sleeves.  For example, the .303 British 174gr round normally exits the rifle muzzle at a velocity of approximately 2440 ft/s.  When firing the 71 gr 32 ACP in the caliber conversion sleeve in such a rifle, the 32 ACP round will exit the muzzle at a velocity of only around 1100 ft/s.  This reduces the effective range considerably, often to only 50 yards or so, and provides much less foot-lbs on target.  The sights are additionally only approximately accurate, as the bullet mass (in grains) and the nominal rifle cartridge velocity have all been assumed in the calibration of the sights on the rifle.  The caliber conversion sleeve is also typically capable of being loaded only one round at a time, effectively converting a repeater rifle into a single shot rifle.  
Users also need to be aware that a squib may often result, as cheap 32 ACP FMJ cartridges may not have enough energy for the 32 ACP bullet to clear the barrel.  This is especially dangerous if a high-powered rifle round is then loaded and fired after a 32 ACP bullet has lodged in the barrel.
However, the benefits when proper 32 ACP ammunition is used are that the recoil and noise of the rifle is greatly reduced, the price per round fired is much cheaper ($0.20/rd, or less, vs. $0.50-$1.00/rd), and, in a survival situation in which only a limited number of rifle rounds are available for hunting, the 32 ACP is certainly adequate for small-game hunting out to 50 yards.  Hence, the caliber conversion sleeve can provide additional survival hunting rounds if one additionally carries a box or two of lighter 32 ACP cartridges in addition to carrying the usual rifle cartridges.  In addition, it often becomes possible to use an indoor pistol range when firing 32 ACP cartridges in a hunting rifle chambered for a much more powerful 0.30-caliber rifle, opening up more firing range opportunities for practicing with powerful rifles in dense urban areas.
Caliber conversion sleeves for firing 32 ACP cartridges in 30-caliber rifles sell for approximately $16-$20 (2006) from major US gun parts distributors.  
Occasionally, chromed or blued supplemental chambers for firing .32 S&W (0.315-inch diameter bullets) in 30-caliber rifles are also seen; these devices often date to the late 19th Century, and were made by Winchester, among others. Similarly, there were also comparable devices sold for the 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher-Schönauer Model 1903 to reduce the round down to .25 auto that were widely available until roughly WW II.   The comparable devices for these older cartridge conversions are no longer commonly sold by major US gun parts distributors.
===End of inclusion.===
scot 14:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, having looked over the old and new articles, I think that most of the content of the old article should probably go into a new section on using the conversions, and maybe bump the descriptions in the current article up a level and put them under a new heading titled "Design and construction" or the like.  scot 15:47, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Backup of article content

message: scot 14:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, having looked over the old and new articles, I think that most of the content of the old article should probably go into a new section on using the conversions, and maybe bump the descriptions in the current article up a level and put them under a new heading titled "Design and construction" or the like.  scot 15:47, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: End of inclusion.

message: One question: What about insert information about inventing of caliber conversion sleve by Percy Scott? He invented this instrument during his Mediterranean service. He use this for better training of his man and lesser consumption of expensive ammo. (during this time there are not big investment into training of sailors.) 
(Sory for my english. Better if any other - native speaker - give this information into regular page)
37.188.188.40 (talk) 15:24, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  inventing of this

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Caliber conversion sleeve. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090217074926/http://shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/st_0302_springfield/ to http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/st_0302_springfield/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928192425/http://www.briley.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=108 to http://www.briley.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=108
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080725055711/http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/pipsqueak_pistol.htm to http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/pipsqueak_pistol.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120207004428/http://www.shotgunreport.com/TechTech/TechnicalTracts/SubgaugeLds.html to http://www.shotgunreport.com/TechTech/TechnicalTracts/SubgaugeLds.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:22, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Moved to Caliber conversion device. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Caliber conversion sleeve →  – Since there are several different methods of caliber conversion covered in this article, and it doesn't actually get to the caliber conversion sleeve until the  section, I am proposing a move and rescope to the general concept of converting calibers. This will also mean a merge of anything suitable from the newly created caliber change (which I feel is a useful redirect, but conversion seems significantly more common). Alpha3031 (t • c) 12:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Oppose: These three devices all have similar function involving a chamber insert with exterior dimensions matching the cartridge for which the firearm is chambered and interior dimensions matching a different cartridge, while Caliber conversion would cover a much broader range of actions involving permanent changes of the firearm barrel. Thewellman (talk) 18:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Name it "caliber conversion device" or "caliber conversion kit" then. Fundamentally it makes no sense for an article covering several things to be named after only one of those things. Alpha3031 (t • c) 04:05, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have no objection to caliber conversion device. Thewellman (talk) 05:18, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Firearms has been notified of this discussion.  ASUKITE 15:43, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Relisting comment: Relisted for additional participation. Please note that the current consensus is Caliber conversion device, and also the related merge discussion below  ASUKITE 15:43, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 15 May 2024 

message: As per the above move proposal, I am also proposing a merge as the two articles cover a substantially similar topic, and the newly created article seems to have some useful information not present in this one. Alpha3031 (t • c) 12:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose: Caliber conversion sleeve describes a number of similar devices for temporary use of different cartridges in a firearm, while Caliber change describes an action to permanently change the cartridges used by a firearm. These differences warrant separate articles. Thewellman (talk) 18:42, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of [[Caliber change]] with [[Caliber conversion sleeve]]