Talk:Mormonism and polygamy

message: I changed the short description from “Formerly allowed practice” to “History of polygamy among Mormon sects.” While the term ‘Mormon’ most frequently applies to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it can broadly be applied to all faiths that either broke from that church, claim to originate with Joseph Smith, Jr., or use the Book of Mormon as sacred text. While the LDS Church has disallowed practice of polygamy, some smaller sects have not. As these are covered in the article, I find it more appropriate to just label it as a history of the practice rather than a formerly allowed practice. DJ Cane (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Short description 

message: Because removing a subsection, albeit a brief one and for reasons that feel well warranted, seems a little on the bold side, I have included an explanation on the talk page for my recent revision to the page.
In the "Increase in bachelorhood subsection", the only secondary source supporting the claim that there was a rise in bachelorhood among nineteenth-century Latter-day Saints is the reference to Richard Abanes's One Nation Under Gods. Although the subsection draws its quote of Heber C. Kimball from Stanley P. Hirshon's Lion of the Lord (1969), the book does not extend the quotation into a conclusion about bachelorhood or bachelorettehood (is that a word?) in nineteenth-century Mormon country. Instead, Hirshon takes the quote as evidence about Kimball's personality, claiming "Kimball always kept an eye out for romance". The subsection also includes a reference to the Encylcopedia of Mormonism, but following up that reference does not substantiate the claim about an increase in bachelorhood either. (There's also, I suppose, the footnote to FAIR, formerly FairMormon, but that's just the page fighting with itself and hedging claims instead of seeking scholarly consensus.)
As for Abanes's One Nation Under Gods, I am not convinced the book should be considered reliable for a Wikipedia page. The book is a work of pop expose rather than scholarship, as attested by the scholarly Journal of American History. JAH's review of the book was almost entirely negative, concluding the book was written not as part of the late-twentieth- and early-twenty-first-century movement toward scholarly Mormon history, but instead "revert[ed] to the negative type" of polemical expose popular in the 1800s.
All other references in the subsection are to primary sources, such as a nineteenth-century newspapers or the Journal of Discourses. I would add that quotations from the Journal of Discourses cannot be taken for granted because George D. Watts, the compiler, often made major changes to speeches in language, tone, style, and even content between transcription and publication ("The Prophets Have Spoken, but What Did They Say?" 2015). Just because it was written in the Journal of Discourses does not guarantee the person attributed actually said it that way, or at all.
With no reliable secondary sources in the subsection, its claim has no reliable warrants that meet Wikipedia standards. and then does not have place on the page. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 05:40, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Increase in bachelorhood subsection warrants removal for lack of reliable secondary sources 

message: We were able to verify the quote about Brigham Young refusing to marry two young girls ages 12 and 13 to a man (you can see the page in the Wilford Woodruff diaries via the Wilford Woodruff papers here). If anyone knows of secondary sources that discuss the quote, we can include a summary of those findings on the page. We removed the quote because the commentary on it is original research, and including the quote without commentary seems unhelpful and unencyclopedic. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 22:00, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed quote from Brigham Young reported by Wilford Woodruff 

message: Here's a newly added comment I am moving from the archives into a new discussion thread. Binksternet (talk) 22:05, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: , I would be interested to see your sources. If your material merits it, you could create a new section titled "Current status" or similar, describing modern cases of polygamy. Binksternet (talk) 22:05, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polygamy in Salt Lake City