Talk:High Sheriff of Devon

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Following on from our earlier discussion, I have now added the references back to 1831 (the end of Hughes) based on the London Gazette. I now propose to use Hughes for all sheriffs before that date, before moving on to the tricky early period. Where a Gazette reference already exists, I will leave it in, but I will delete other less reliable sources.
Great work everyone in getting this far and please shout here if you don't agree.--NHSavage (talk) 17:33, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Now completed adding Hughes from 1700 onwards.NHSavage (talk) 18:09, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, now completed all references from Hughes. I won't be doing any more for a while. Still to do I think:
* complete the early parts of the record using all available sources - probably in a more discursive format
* extend the history section and add references for it
* Consolidate all references to Burke's Peerage into a single Bibliography entry as done for Hughes
* check all remaining references to enusre that they are complete and consolidated properly
* clean up access dates to be consistent format
--NHSavage (talk) 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Way forward 

message: In 1752, as well as loosing 11 days, the definition of when the year begins changed. Before this date, it was on 25 March, after this it is the 1st January. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_(New_Style)_Act_1750#Start_of_the_year
It is also important to know which convention Hughes uses. In the introduction it states "years being reckoned as beginning on the 1st January". This is consistent with the statement here  "When recording British history, it is usual to use the same dates recorded at the time of the event, with the year adjusted to start on 1 January". I therefore suggest we follow this approach, but I would like to seek consensus on this as it has potential to be very confusing (and I think is probably the reason for some conflicts between Hughes and Pole in the 17th Century - Pole uses Regnal years and the calendar may not have been correctly accounted for when converting). NHSavage (talk) 09:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Even Hughes seems to have made a mistake with this in 1723/4 ... NHSavage (talk) 15:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

text: Also MOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Julian_and_Gregorian_calendars "At some places and times, the new year began on a date other than 1 January. For example, in England and its colonies until 1752, the year began on Annunciation Day, 25 March; see the New Year article for other styles. In writing about historical events, however, years should be assumed to have begun on 1 January (see the example of the execution of Charles I in "Differences in the start of the year"); if there is reason to use another start-of-year date, this should be noted.". This also follows Hughes.NHSavage (talk) 16:06, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have now had a discussion on this over on the MOS pages, and the consensus seems to be a. use Julian calendar dating until 2 September 1752 but always treat the year as starting on 1 January. This is also consistent with what Hughes does.NHSavage (talk) 09:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Some more advice on dates might be forthcoming soon. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Julian_and_Gregorian_calendars_in_England_and_the_Colonies --NHSavage (talk) 13:48, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

text: Thanks Jim. The manual of style is actually clear enough now (following me prodding the people over there). We should use Julian dates untol September 1752 but use the new style convention for the start of the year i.e. 1 January. I will add a footnote to this effect.NHSavage (talk) 07:58, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  New style or old style years before 1752? 

message: For a number of entries, there are differences between some of the other sources and our most reiable sources: The London Gazette and Hughes. I present these here with the action I have taken to invite comment.NHSavage (talk) 15:14, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differences from Hughes and Gazette 

message: the article contained this entry for 1718:
* 1718: ??John Pollexfen
 
The actual text in the reference reads: "Elizabeth Calmady who espoused John Pollexfen, high-sheriff for the co in 1718". I am inclined to read this as the date she married him, not the date he was sheriff. He is recoded as sheriff in 1743 and it is rare for one man to serve multiple years in this period. I will remove it for now, but I thought I should note it here.NHSavage (talk) 16:29, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Pollexfen 

message: Previously the article used The Exeter Pocket-Journal; Or, West-Country Gentleman and Tradesman's Memorandum-Book for the Year of Our Lord 1755. for some of the references. The list in this reference does not always agree with Hughes before 1709. The question is, should I record these disagreements given the nature of this source?NHSavage (talk) 17:58, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exeter Pocket Journal 

message: The list currently includes Robert Shapcote for 1654. He is not included in Hughes' list and his appointment is not included in  his page on History of Parliament. I will remove him for now. There is however a reference given:  so if someone can check this and see exactly what it says, we can consider restoring him to the list if the reference supports it.NHSavage (talk) 10:58, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robert Shapcote 

message: Another inconsistent date from Burke's. Both Hughes and the Gazette have Cabell appointed as Sheriff in November 1668 but  has "Ricahrd Cabell Esq. of Brooke in Devon, Sheriff of the county in 1664". Again I going to ignore this but I am willing to add a footnote on this, if it is considered important.--NHSavage (talk) 12:05, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Richard Cabell - 1664 or 1668? 

message: The list currently includes: 16 January 1347: Thomas de Ralegh, on a pretended commission. This has been flagged as clarification needed which is fair enough. The problem is that is all the information contained in Hughes. I am not even certain what a "pretended commission" is - presumably some sort of fraud but I may be wrong. I think that if we were to try and understand this we would probably be getting into some original research. I therefore suggest that we simply drop this statement.--NHSavage (talk) 09:14, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pretended commission