Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/May 2006

message: The Anime & Manga Project now has one, so I thought we should create one for outstanding work on Japan-related articles. Mitsukai made the one A&MP uses (it's over to the right there). Ideas? --日本穣 Nihonjoe
: The Tomoe? struggle 19:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I like that one. (^_^) This one is my favorite. It really jumps out. Anyone have a good way of making one like this that's a free image? --日本穣 Nihonjoe 23:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I made two versions that could be used for a barnstar. They were originally traced from the image Nihonjoe mentioned, so I'm just hoping they're okay copyright-wise. -- Tangotango 06:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: That tomoe is r0xors. Do I get a free one for suggesting it?struggle 14:31, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: There are some possible alternates, too. Cranes, hollyhock, another hollyhock, genetian, a whole page of other posibilities (here, and here, too).   --日本穣 Nihonjoe 16:11, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ooh I like that one too.  Exploding Boy 16:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I like the red one as well. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 22:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer the black and white. LordAmeth 22:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Don't know that we're actually voting anymore since other options have been presented now. Doesanyone else have any proposals for WikiProject Japan barnstar? ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:20, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: We need a barnstar

message: Please indicate your support (or not) of the "Barn Tomoe" to be used as a "barnstar" for Japan-related articles. 
Support
# ˑˑˑ日本穣 Talk to Nihonjoε 16:46, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ooh I like that one too.  Exploding Boy 16:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the red one as well. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 22:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer the black and white. LordAmeth 22:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Don't know that we're actually voting anymore since other options have been presented now. Doesanyone else have any proposals for WikiProject Japan barnstar? ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:20, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Voting

message: I'd appreciate some help on Fujiwara no Teika. If someone else could help me with the actual Japanese (that has been discussed on the PR, and is being discussed in the FAC), that'd be really useful, 'cause most of the problems appear to stem from how I include the originals. Votes and criticism would also be good. --maru   (talk)  contribs 07:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: An accurate transcription (or at least a breakdown by line) of this is probably the most important thing right now. --maru   (talk)  contribs 07:33, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I'm the one who's been bullying you, given in to my ignorance of C12 japanese and the modernisation of it and just added some bits I found via google. Really needs a non-ignoramus though, especially as one of the examples in the article seems to be out of order and only *collected* by him, not written. --zippedmartin 10:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The erroneous one you are referring to is the one beginning "Takasago no", right? I'm pretty sure that your source is wrong as far as attribution goes. As my referencing indicates, I got it from his Shoji-era sequence of 100 original poems- not one of his collections of other people's poems like the Hyakunin isshu, and it's unlikely Brower screwed up that spectacularly. --maru   (talk)  contribs 13:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, sorry, didn't quite comment that clearly enough - that was all I'd found, not the actual poem. Ad hoc method of hurridly googling a couple of lines of modern japanese guessed from the transcription did okay for the others though. Never have found that one through をのへ though, darn historical kana usage. --zippedmartin 19:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fujiwara no Teika 

message: I think this article is nearly ready for FAC nomination.  Please look it over and make suggestions/improvements.
One are that might be problematic is the lack of citations/references.  Any suggestions?
Exploding Boy 06:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll comment on the article's discussion page. Fg2 07:26, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Japanese tea ceremony]]

message: Sorry all. I have another item for thought. There is currently no article on the topic of bunjinga (文人画, literati painting), which as far as I am aware is fully synonymous with nanga (南画, Southern school painting). Does anyone have any input on just how synonymous these two terms are, and whether the article (which I'm planning to start), should be located at bunjinga or at nanga (art). (Nanga is apparently the name of an African musical instrument.) Arigatou. LordAmeth 16:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds good to me. The Japanese article is located at :ja:南画, and it has a sentence stating, "文人画ともいう。" (which means, "Also called bunjinga.") ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bunjinga/Nanga 

message: (Crossposted) I have recently expanded Japanese clock from an uninformative stub. Some checking and technical assistance would be appreciated. Technical vocabulary for the old Japanese temporal hours would be nice, as would appropriate Japanese language terminology about traditional pre-Westernization clocks and timekeeping, from someone who (unlike myself) has the ability to type in Japanese. Checking to see if the article has a counterpart on ja: would be good also, and if anyone has access to appropriate pictures, they too would help a lot. Thanks. — Smerdis of Tlön 23:01, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's . I've updated the article. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:03, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! Smerdis of Tlön 13:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Japanese clock]] 

message: An edit war has been brewing for a short while now on the pages for Asuka period, Nara period, Yamato period, and I think perhaps one or two other articles over the issue of the extent of Korean influence on Japan at this time. As an admin, I feel it is more or less my responsibility to step in and do something, but I am honestly not that well versed in the period, and am not sure which side to take. More to the point, I feel like whatever I say will not be construed as playing referee or mediator and will instead be seen as butting-in or taking sides. I am posting here, therefore, to encourage the beginning of a discussion on the subject, rather than just an edit war, and hopefully involving a greater number of voices, and with any luck a greater number of voices that come from level heads. Thank you. LordAmeth 18:14, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: From what my Japanese history classes taught me, Korean metal-workers came into Japan during the three aforementioned periods, they themselves receiving the technology from China. There was a much heavier technological influence, with less cultural influence. Of course, this is the way Japanese culture is, they discard foreign cultural influence while absorbing technology and methods. Meiji, Showa, Yayoi, same thing. struggle 18:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflict on Korean influence in early Japan 

message: What should be done with the article mukade? The article claims that it is "a species of poisonous centipede native to Japan which is characterised by a black body and bright orange, yellow or red legs". I raised a question at the Science reference desk asking if anyone could provide a genus/species for the critter, but it does not appear that there is any species of centipede that is unique to Japan and fits the description given. Furthermore, the worde mukade is simply the Japanese word for centipede, and the Japanese mukade article links back to our general page on centipedes.
I stumbled across one photo with genus/species information, which seems to imply that what English-speakers are calling mukade are in fact known as Chinese red heads in English: .
So, it seems that mukade is an inaccurate article. However, I have heard expats in Japan talk at length about mukade, by which they mean giant Japanese centipedes. My gut says to move mukade to Chinese red head and leave the redirect, but I can't be certain that there aren't other Japanese centipede species that uninformed Westerners also dub mukade. It's a common phenomenon for English speakers to adopt foreign terms for things that don't exist in their home culture; I'm not faulting anyone for doing it. But Wikipedia's not a dictionary, so it seems best to move mukade to the correct scientific name. Any comments? — BrianSmithson 12:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I take that back. I've done a bit more forum diving, and it appears that expat Westerners refer to any Japanese centipede as mukade. This confirms my theory that they are simply adopting a foreign word for something they are unfamiliar with. So, with this in mind, I think mukade should either be retooled and moved to centipedes in Japan, or it should redirect to centipede. — BrianSmithson 14:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say redirect it to centipede. A Centipedes in Japan article is definitely useful, but mukade isn't limited to Japanese centipedes (although many Japanese will tell you that they think all mukade are poisonous) and that would just serve as more misinformation.  I doubt any Westerner was confused, it was probably just some kid who wanted to put another Japanese word into the Wiki articlespace.  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  06:48, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've done as you suggest. Thanks for the input. — BrianSmithson 13:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most common centriped here in Japan mainland is Scolopendra subspinipes japonica or S. subspinipes mutilans. However, generally the name mukade encompasses all centripeds except Scutigeromorpha which are geji. Isorhiza 16:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Suggestion.  Copy the concept of the tanuki/raccoon dog pages.  Leave the mythical stuff under mukade, and send the scientific stuff to the Chinese red head or centipedes in Japan article(s).--み使い Mitsukai 15:49, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mukade 

message: I'm surprised to learn there's a WikiProject Japan... considering the poor state of many articles related to Japan. Take the articlce on Osaka, Japan's second largest city for example. I've been trying to improve it gradually (and more than anything not allow it to become worse), but there's still so much stuff missing, not least regarding it's history. Also notice all the red links... -- Mackan 01:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the real problem is getting the necessary references. For instance, the  Imperial anthologies of waka are indisputably important if not utterly vital to any articles on Japanese poetry (and thus vital to coverage of Japan), but finding any works in English which treat of them even more than superficially is rather difficult. Just getting the scant information with which I started the rather shallow articles listed in Imperial anthology#from the Kamakura period to the Muromachi period was bloody difficult, and let's not even talk about finding English sources for Fujiwara no Teika! (And besides purely lack of sources, you've got language, script, naming, network effects and sorts of other problems). --maru   (talk)  contribs 05:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Osaka 

message: You might have noticed the box with the text "Japan is either included in Wikipedia CD Selection or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version (project page at WPCD Selection). Please do not leave the article in a messy or stubbed state, and if possible stick to GFDL images but if you can expand or improve it further, please do so!" on the talk page of Japan, or a similar one on some other pages. Here is a list of Japan-related articles on the alphabetical listing or with the above message. I've probably missed more than I found, so please add to the list. Fg2 10:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia CD 

message: Can somebody explain to me what on earth the  template is trying to accomplish?  Isn't this what :Category:Japan is for? Jpatokal 11:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that its purpose is to inform editors that of the existence of the wikiproject and the project's scope. It may encourage others to collaborate on and join the project. --Squilibob 11:18, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You believe so?  Does anybody know? Jpatokal 15:39, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I assume Jpatokal means :Category:WikiProject Japan, rather than :Category:Japan. -- Rick Block (talk) 14:43, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You assume incorrectly.  Any article under :Category:Japan falls under the scope of the project, no? So isn't this all terribly redundant? Jpatokal 15:39, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Its purpose is the same as any other WikiProject notice: To let others who may be interested know that a project exists to which they may wish to contribute. WikiProjects are separate from the main article space, so having an article marked as part of WIkiProject Japan is not redundant with :Category:Japan (which is part of the main article space on WP). ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The incredibly annoying WikiProject Japan template 

message: Japanese robotics has expanded significantly since it was made a collaboration of the week, but is still very imcomplete. Also, it appears to be up for merging into the general robotics article.  You can vote regarding the merger on the Talk:Robot page.
George100 23:08, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese robotics article