Talk:Queensway Tunnel

message: It is believed that the first of Liverpool's two road tunnels (1886) to the other side of the River Mersey (Queensway) followed the principles of engineering used in the construction of the Holland Tunnel.   Certain aspects of the Mersey tunnel are very similar in appearance to the Holland tunnel and uses similar ventilation.
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This is partly true, but is partly misinformed.  Construction proceeded very differently: Queensway was built by blasting out the sandstone, whereas the Holland tunnel was mostly built by compressed air shield in what tunnellers call "running ground" and what the rest of us call quicksand.  These call for very different types of construction.  If you want to trace who followed whom, then perhaps the Holland tunnel followed the dreadful experience of those building of the Bakerloo line tunnels across the gravel beds of the Thames, or the safety features incorporated into Holland followed those in the Blackwall or Rotherhithe road tunnels.  The whole debate smacks of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or (more appropriately) which tunnelling project holds the record for driving the longest tunnel in (clay/gravel/gneiss/delete as applicable) this month.
As far as ventilation goes, Queensway definitely took account of what was happening at the Holland tunnel, but also took the results of many other sources: the US Bureau of Mines' original (and excellent) 1919 research for the Holland & Hampton Road tunnels; the work on the Mount Victoria tunnel in New Zealand by Kent Bros.; the work by the UK government to add ventilation to the Blackwall & Rotherhithe road tunnels in the 1920s; and Prof. Douglas Hay's own ventilation experiments at Sheffield University for Queensway.  In the end they came up with a different way of solving the problem of diluting vehicle emissions and controlling the movement of smoke.  The Holland tunnel is a fully-transverse system (ducted supply, ducted extract) and Queensway is a semi-transverse supply system (ducted supply, point extract).  One of these days I'll write a wiki page on road tunnel ventilation to explain the difference.
A minor typo is the year given: 1886 was when the Mersey rail tunnel was opened, not a year in any way related to the Queensway or Holland tunnels.
Ecb 23:31, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Holland tunnel 

message: Just a note to explain why I've deleted the reference to Giles Gilbert Scott designing New Quay vent station.
All the references I've found say that all the surface architectural works were by Herbert Rowse.  There's even a photograph of the New Quay building with Rowse's name under it in 
* The Story of the Mersey Tunnel, officially named Queensway, 1934
I did a bit of wiki detective work last year and it appears to have originated at Paul W, who put "ventilator shafts for the Mersey Tunnel" onto the list of works by Giles Gilbert Scott.  18 months later, Irate modified Queensway Tunnel to assign the design of New Quay vent station to GGS.
Irate has been blocked indefinitely, so there's no point asking what his source is.  Paul W, who appears more reliable, hasn't replied to a question on it (in fairness, the edit in question is now two years old so I don't blame him).
I can't find any evidence to link GGS to New Quay vent station, either on the web or in contemporary sources, so I've deleted it.  You can re-instate it if you have better information.
Ecb 20:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Giles Gilbert Scott

message: I don't think the old wall cladding was "corrugated plastic". I think it was some kind of vitreous panel, and was kept clean by a group of women who washed it down.
[Edited] "A glass dado was built to a height of 6 ft 3 in throughout, the full length of the tunnel. The dado is composed of sheets of jet-black glass, a quarter of an inch thick" - from https://www.wondersofworldengineering.com/merseytunnel.html Danensis (talk) 15:17, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wall cladding