Wikipedia talk:Extended image syntax/Archive 2

message: From the text:
"and the alternate text is used as alt=-attribute for use as mouse popup and for screen reader."
No, no, no, no, NO. The alt attribute is not for mouse popup text. The alt attribute sets alternate text (instead of the image); the title attribute is recommended for use as such things as mouse-over popups (as well as the image). I'm glad to see the software seems to get this right, in as much as the title attribute is being set to the same thing as the alt, but we really shouldn't be encouraging their perception as one and the same. I can see that for most wikipedia purposes a sensible caption will be suitable as both supplementary and replacement, but could the wording on this and any other help pages make clear that this is not the alt= text. [Apologies for going off on a rant. I must be stressed.] - IMSoP 11:54, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I've calmed down long enough to be more wiki-like about this, and gone ahead and changed the page so that it talks about a caption text which is used for more than one purpose. I've reworded various bits to be more precise and/or understandable while I was at it, with the side effect that it may be a bit more verbose. Let me know if you think I've gone too far/done something inappropriate. - IMSoP 12:14, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternate text is not the same as title text

message: IMSoP is correct that alt is not intended for tooltips. Unfortunately the Wikipedia software is currently too flawed to produce any good result. For example, someone listening to Buckingham Palace should hear this ("→" represents a sound that will vary between screenreaders):
:Buckingham Palace. (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.) Buckingham Palace is the official →London residence of the →British monarch. Originally Buckingham House, it was built for →John Sheffield, 1st Duke of Buckingham and Normanby, in →1703 ...
But with the current image syntax, they'll hear this instead:
:Buckingham Palace. (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.) Buckingham Palace behind the Victoria Monument, as seen from The Mall enlarge Buckingham Palace behind the Victoria Monument, as seen from →The Mall Buckingham Palace with the Union Flag projected onto it for Christmas Eve 2003 enlarge Buckingham Palace with the →Union Flag projected onto it for Christmas Eve 2003.
:Buckingham Palace is the official →London residence of the →British monarch. Originally Buckingham House, it was built for →John Sheffield, 1st Duke of Buckingham and Normanby, in →1703 ...
That first paragraph is just gibberish. Unfortunately if you leave the alternate text field blank, you'll still get gibberish:
:The last vertical bar ensures that the alternate text becomes "Westminstpalace.jpg" and not "right".
"Westminstpalace.jpg"? That's not even English. What is someone using a screenreader supposed to think when they hear that? If they're technically-minded enough to realize it's an image filename, they'll think "oh, they're making fun of me by giving me technical details about an image I can't see".
Until this is fixed, there's little point in providing guidelines on how to use the image syntax (other than "use raw HTML instead"). Almost anything you do with the Wikipedia syntax will be wrong.
If an accessibility-minded programmer wants to fix this, they should:
# Stop the repetition of alternate text as a caption. (Since most manually-specified alternate text in Wikipedia right now is inappropriate, this is perhaps best done by adding a new field for alt, leaving the current field for title.)
# Make the default image alternate text "" (which is appropriate in ~90 percent of cases), rather than the image filename (which is appropriate in 0 percent of cases).
# Change the alternate text for the enlargement symbol to "". If I can't see images, being presented with a link to enlarge them isn't just useless, it's taunting.
-- Mpt 11:51, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternate text shouldn't be the same as caption text

message: I've noticed all of a sudden that thumbnailed images seem to have gone to the far left of the article space and overlap with the taskbar. I dont know if anyone else has experienced this or whether it's only me. But it wasn't doing it a few days ago. G-Man 23:48, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it's related with the above topic thumbnails not right-aligned - thumbnailed images without a text did some strange things. But that one was fixed - maybe you can give an example, and probably should try it with different skins. andy 18:17, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: What's going on with images

message: Borrowing from Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates two image rendering examples follow.........- Bevo 18:48, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Strange - yesterday I did see one broken and one fine, now both are fine. Maybe the bug in the css was fixed without further notice? andy 11:33, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Still happening with me, does anyone know what I can do about it? G-Man 22:54, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Still broke for me too, using Mozilla FireFox 0.8 - Bevo 18:20, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: OK now, see Gabriel Wicke's comments below. - Bevo 22:39, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: Suddenly, this afternoon the image below is rendering OK using Mozilla FireFox 0.8. - Bevo 19:15, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: The images seem ok to me, running FireBird 0.8. What are they supposed to look like?--Fangz 23:06, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Three boxed images of the same size, enclosed in a box. And, it's FireFox 0.8 (not FireBird), right? - Bevo 14:40, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Oopsy, I did mean Firefox 0.8. That's what I see. It looks right to me. I'm using the monobook skin, a screen resolution of 800x600, Win 98, with the style sheet mods that give rounded corners and bottom tabs. What about everybody else?--Fangz 00:29, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: I moved the overflow: hidden declaration to the inner div earlier today, that achieves the same thing without allowing tables to shrink the image. -- Gabriel Wicke 19:49, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Example of image rendering concerns

message: How to update the images at editing help? Specifically the required markup is as follows. Jamesday 02:17, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Editing help]] update

message: *Is there a simple way to link to an image without displaying it?
**Yes, put a colon before the name of the image, like this :Image:Wiki.png which gives :Image:Wiki.png Matthewmayer 15:18, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three questions 

message: Forgive me if there's already some discussion about this somewhere: are there any plans to improve the image auto-thumbnail process to account for PNGs with indexed color? I'd much rather upload a high-resolution image and let the thumbnail be generated automatically, but since they're converted to true-color, the thumbnail often ends up larger (in bytes) than the original (for instance, the six images on Four-stroke cycle), or almost as large (the rotor breakdown on Enigma machine). Seems to me it should be a fairly simple matter to have the thumbnailing script (or whatever it is) look at the color depth in the original image, and convert appropriately (using true-color only for the intermediate resizing). I've noticed some rather heated disagreements over this issue that would be neatly solved if thumbnailing worked better for indexed PNGs. -- Wapcaplet 16:53, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's another request to support the images with indexed colors when thumbnailing. It's rather annoying to have the thumbnails much larger in size than actual images. --Joy [shallot] 14:36, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indexed PNG thumbnails 

message: Is there any way to keep an image from overlapping with, say, a navigation box on the bottom of a page (see  for an example) besides, of course, making the image smaller or adding a bunch of text (I was forced to do both on Pope Gregory XV)?
*You can use .  See Wikipedia:Image_markup_gallery#Cancelling floating-around-image mode.  —AlanBarrett 17:27, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overlap with charts

message: The page about Shuttle Buran had problems rendering thumbnail images on 05:17, 23 Oct 2004. (now it's ok) It probable due to mixing Image markup with HTML with New syntax like this:



There must have been recently a change to the floatright class which introduced an incompatibility because since 19 Aug 2004 when the change was made to use the class none obected any strange layout.
So while the page about the new syntax states "The new syntax is backward compatible, so articles don't have to be changed." it can actually be incompatible with some strangely formulated pages.
:I think the issue here is that "|center|" and "class=floatright" directly contradict one another - you wouldn't expect "|center|right|" to meaningfully obey both instructions. In this sense, it's not an incompatibility, so much as an inappropriate/invalid use of the syntax. The reason it will have changed is that until recently the "|center|" option was actually broken, so there wouldn't have been a conflict; as soon as this was fixed, some odd side-effects were bound to occur, since the software will have started outputting something like (image stuff) (it's not quite that, but I'm sure you get the idea). - IMSoP 12:48, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  New syntax not so compatible when mixed with old syntax 

message: === How to disable the link to the original image? ===
When the image is uploaded at the exact size for display, it makes little sense to have a link to the original image file; this makes even less sense for images that are meant to function as icons, small logos, etc. But how to specify an image for display without showing the link to the uploaded image?
* Just use , and you'll get an image without any borders, frames, extra buttons, or anything.  However, the image will still be a link to the image page.  —AlanBarrett 19:34, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two questions 

message: When the image is uploaded at the exact size for display, it makes little sense to have a link to the original image file; this makes even less sense for images that are meant to function as icons, small logos, etc. But how to specify an image for display without showing the link to the uploaded image?
* Just use , and you'll get an image without any borders, frames, extra buttons, or anything.  However, the image will still be a link to the image page.  —AlanBarrett 19:34, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to disable the link to the original image? 

message: The “project page” says that if an alignment of ‘none’ is specified, then “The image will be rendered inline, even if the thumbnail-option is set”. However, this is not always true.
If the image with ‘none’ alignment is inside an external link, MediaWiki will show the external link icon, then a line break, then the image, then another line break; this is very far from rendering the image inline.
What is the correct way to deal with such situations?
Gniw 20:32, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to force an image to be displayed inline? 

message: Is there any way to get Wikipedia's customized <img> tag to link to pictures from Wikimedia Commons?  I'm trying to add some of the images there to the Interlingua wikipedia, but it didn't work, so I had to upload it to the Interlingua server manually.  That seems like a waste.  Almafeta 12:14, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images from Wikicommons 

message: In my 1.5b3 wiki, if I use a thumb tag in the image syntax, the image doesn't show up. The caption appears correctly, but no picture is visible. I can force the image to the right of the page and a smaller size using right|200px, but then I don't get a caption. What could be stopping me from using the thumb tag?
: I think it might take a little while for the server to parse the images.  Does it work a few minutes afterwards? Dunc|☺ 19:56, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  <tt>thumb</tt> tag breaks images