Talk:Principality of the Pindus

message: Sorry I can't remove the following [[Category:History of Greece|Pindus] from the External links. Please help. Thanks. --Koppany 04:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: "Φιλόδοξα οράματα που ο Ματούσης θα πληρώσει με εικοσαετή κάθειρξη στις φυλακές του Τσαουσέσκου." If I understand well this means that Matoussi was sentenced for 20 years in Ceausescu's Romania? → 
Η άλλη Ξένη Thanks. --Koppany 11:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Matoussi

message: From previous Talk:Principality of Pindus:
Discussion about this "state" can be found on .  It seems to have longer history, quote: Italy actually created the Principality of Pindos in 1917 first after they took control of Epirus. Pavel Vozenilek 23:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Imported from old talk page

message: Could somebody expand the article by translating it from Greek wikipedia? Luka Jačov 23:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek article 

message: Here is the original start 22 August 2006 and the already removed and not archived Talk
Talk:Principality of Pindus
Balkanfreezer (talk) 18:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Frankly, it is very hard to follow what it is you want from the above. Could you please try to clearly and briefly describe the problem for somewhat who is absolutely clueless and has no knowledge of the background (i.e. me)? henrik•talk 18:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Balkanfreezer, please stop your vandalism and violating the rules of Wikpedia. The title of the article, so far as I know, reflects the Italian attempt to create a local structure that would support them against Greek guerillas. First they used for this purpose the Aromanians, later Macedonians. Maybe these two attempts could have different articles, but it seems to be not easy. Anyway I can not support any unilateral remove of information. --Koppany (talk) 18:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Indeed, there in no support from bibliography (it did not make sense anyway, as you correctly point out). --FocalPoint (talk) 08:02, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct, no relation whatsoever. --FocalPoint (talk) 08:02, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

text: I can accept a subtitle to deal with the Macedonian issue, but it is almost impossible to detach it from the Pindus story. The territories ruled or at least claimed by the Principality and those ruled or claimed by pro-Italian Macedonians were the same. It seems that about 1942-43 Italy disappointed with Aromanians started to favorize Macedonians (and even formed a commitee with Bulgarians) but in the same territory and based on the same structures.--Koppany (talk) 20:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [http://books.google.com/books?lr=&q=Principality+of+Pindus&btnG=Search+Books PRINCIPALITY OF PINDUS]

message: and the Despotate of Epirus EXISTED (not only as a title) but this so called Voivodship of Macedonia 
is disputed
Balkanfreezer (talk) 20:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Macedonians were supported by the Italians and their uniforms were supplied by the Italians. --Koppany (talk) 20:26, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Title misleading like a main article of [[Byzantine Empire]] and [[Despotate of Epirus]]

message: *1.Title -> Principality of Pindus
*2.Subcategories Principality of Moglena , Voivodship of Macedonia
*3.RELIABLE SOURCES INSIDE THE PHRASE
Balkanfreezer (talk) 20:43, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am quite happy for it to be Principality of Pindus/Autonomous State of Pindus and have subcategories but we need to move the page PROPERLY. Balkanfreezer, copy-paste moves delete the history of the page which is actually quite important. After four days, you will be able to move a page properly... so just wait, or either me or Koppany will move the page when this discussion is over. BalkanFever 02:20, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you replying to me or....? BalkanFever 13:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 3 Points

message: IMRO, Ohrana and  Ivan Mihailov. Too many links but nothing relevant. Where is also the reference that Julius I had this specific title? Balkanfreezer (talk) 11:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Confusion between the supposed Voivodship, the Pro-Bulgarian [[Independent State of Macedonia]]

message: This article was copy-and-paste moved and redirected several times on 26 December 2007 and 31 January 2008 by User:Balkanfreezer, from the present Principality of Pindus and Voivodship of Macedonia back to its older title Principality of Pindus. I have fixed this by history-merging all content edits made while the material was at Principality of Pindus back into the history here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy-and-paste move fixed 

message: Principality of Pindus and Voivodship of Macedonia -> Principality of Pindus
It's been proposed that this page be moved back to Principality of Pindus. Please make a note here if there are any remaining objections to this. I'll carry out the move in a few days if this is consensus. It needs admin tools to do it properly. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed move 

message: Please note that there is a significant confusion, both in the Wikipedia text on the Principality of the Pindus, as well as in bibliography:
*The term Principality of the Pindus was used to describe the attempt to create some kind of autonomous entity in 1917 in Samarina by Vlachs representing 13 villages in Pindus mountain, during the short Italian occupation of the region, following the attempt of the Italians to have the allegiance of the Vlachs.
*The events between 1941-1944 are described in the article Vlach "Roman Legion", an organization headed by Alcibiade Damandi (in more detail see also :el:Λεγεώνα των Βλάχων), where it is shown that there was no mention of any other term at the time, since, anyway the main movement was based in Thessaly. The name "Roman Legion" was used (and Diamantis was described in some cases as Prince but certainly not of any non-existent state).
I believe that the distinction has to be made in the article here, where especially the infobox is quite misleading:
*the Principality of Pindus was never a state, just a proclamation
*the date is 1917 (it is wrong to make any connection with 1940's)
*description: it is entirely wrong to invent descriptions like "Elective monarchy" for a non-existent state and no elections held!
*historical era: 1917 - end of First World War
--FocalPoint (talk) 10:21, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead as you see fit. This article has been problematic almost since its inception. It would be nice to have some reliable source-based information and clarity on who was what. Constantine   ✍  19:05, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion 

message: The article now is balanced and all information is supported by reliable sources. I can only hope that in the future, information from here will be copied to the other language wikipedias:
Main points to know:
# The name Principality of Pindus is used mainly for the events in 1917 (indeed villages of Pindus were involved)
# The same name is in some cases used for the events in 1941-43. This is not correct since the events are covered by the actions of the so calles "Roman Legion", which was active in Thessalia, as well as parts of Macedonia and Epirus. Hence the name ...of Pindus... has no sense.
#:"... has no sense." — I wouldn't be a bit surprised if what drew these two bits together is the presence of Diamandi. To someone like me who is not an experienced, academic historian, it can appear superficially as if these were both efforts spearheaded by one man hungry for power, taking advantage each time of a general background of war and chaos, to create facts on the ground. Hence identifying them by a common name, even if geographically incorrect, does make sense in that setting. I mention this only because I want to make sure all your corrections here stay within NPOV, and the best way to do that is to make sure your thinking on this stays within NPOV. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Article information

message: Following the identification of serious mistakes in the Principality of Pindus articles in all wikis, I hereby leave 
*instructions on corrections that need to be done
*a list of wikipedias and recording whether these corrections have been done (or not)
;Instructions
Correct the affected articles:
#Principality of the Pindus (mainly for events of 1917)
#Alcibiades Diamandi (leader of the Vlach "Roman Legion" in 1941-42)
#Nicolaos Matussis (leader  of the Vlach "Roman Legion" after Diamandis 1942-43, when Diamandis left for Romania)
#Gyula Cseszneky (no relationship with  1917 at all, no relationship with the "Roman Legion" at 1943)
Most important also:
*Find all "what links here" articles to Principality of the Pindus  and Alcibiades Diamandi  and correct them.
*Usual links to be corrected: the information of the non-existent principality has been copied in  several wikipedias in Trikala (as a seat of assembly of the non-existent principality)  and Metsovo (as a "capital" of the non-existent principality)
;List of these articles in all Wikipedias
Wikipedia                      	Principality of the Pindus                                                    	Alcibiades Diamandi	Nicolaos Matussis	Gyula Cseszneky	"what links here" articles
Armãneashti                    	To correct (easy, very small)                                                 	-                  	-                	-              	To correct, easy, few
Български                      	ok                                                                            	ok                 	ok               	ok             	ok
Bosanski                       	Removed gross inaccuracies, added "disputed" template, left note in discussion	-                  	-                	ok             	To correct, easy, few
Català                         	Ok                                                                            	-                  	-                	ok             	To check 2-3 only
Čeština                        	To correct                                                                    	-                  	-                	-              	To check
Dansk                          	-                                                                             	-                  	-                	ok             	To check
Deutsch                        	Left a note in discussion and removed some mistakes                           	To correct         	-                	ok             	To check
Ελληνικά                       	ok                                                                            	ok                 	ok               	ok             	ok
Español                        	To correct (some mistakes removed)                                            	ok                 	-                	ok             	To check
English                        	ok                                                                            	ok                 	ok               	ok             	ok, a few minor issues remain
Esperanto                      	ok - Was a machine translation, replaced by new machine translation           	-                  	-                	ok             	ok
Français                       	mostly ok                                                                     	-                  	-                	ok             	ok
Galego                         	To check                                                                      	-                  	-                	To check       	To check
Hrvatski                       	despite corrections still needs changes                                       	To correct         	-                	To check       	To check
Bahasa Indonesia               	despite corrections still needs change                                        	-                  	-                	To check       	To check
Italiano                       	ok                                                                            	ok                 	-                	ok             	ok
עברית                          	To check                                                                      	-                  	-                	To check       	To check
Ladino                         	To correct, note left in discussion                                           	-                  	-                	-              	ok
Magyar                         	To check                                                                      	To correct         	To correct       	To check       	To check
Македонски                     	To check                                                                      	-                  	-                	To check       	To check
Bahasa Melayu                  	despite corrections still need changes                                        	-                  	-                	ok             	ok
Nederlands                     	To check                                                                      	-                  	-                	To check       	To check
日本語                            	To check                                                                      	-                  	-                	To check       	To check
Norsk bokmål                   	-                                                                             	-                  	-                	ok             	ok
Norsk nynorsk                  	-                                                                             	-                  	-                	ok             	ok
Polski                         	To check                                                                      	To correct         	To correct       	To check       	To check
Português                      	despite corrections still needs change, left move proposal                    	-                  	-                	To check       	To check
Română                         	despite corrections still needs change, needs move                            	-                  	-                	-              	To check
Русский                        	despite corrections still needs change                                        	-                  	-                	Corrected      	To check
Simple English                 	ok                                                                            	-                  	-                	-              	ok
Slovenčina                     	ok, but  still speaks about state                                             	-                  	-                	ok             	ok
Српски / srpski                	To check                                                                      	-                  	-                	To check       	To check
Srpskohrvatski / српскохрватски	despite corrections still needs change                                        	-                  	-                	ok             	ok
Basa Sunda                     	To check                                                                      	-                  	-                	To check       	To check
Suomi                          	Left Template:Disputed                                                        	-                  	-                	-              	ok
Svenska                        	To check                                                                      	-                  	-                	-              	To check
Українська                     	despite corrections still needs change                                        	-                  	-                	-              	To check
Tiếng Việt                     	Ok, machine translation from simple english                                   	-                  	-                	-              	To check
中文                             	To check                                                                      	-                  	-                	-              	To check
Standard message to leave in Edit summary:
removed incorrect information, please see :en:Talk:Principality of the Pindus#Article information
--FocalPoint (talk) 18:10, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coordination for correction of serious mistakes across all wikis 

message: A small tangent but this passage: "The Aromanians were part of the projects for the dismemberment of Greece set up by the Italians. When the 11th Army occupied the areas in 1941, their commanders received orders by Palazzo Chigi (the Italian government/prime minister's premises) to survey each village recording their ethnicity and its attitude towards the occupiers, finding the Aromanians absorbed and assimilated in the Greek community with the exception of some groups who were recorded as anti-Bulgarian, anti-Greek, pro-Italian and pro-Romanian.[11]"
uses Palazzo Chigi as a metonym in a way that might be inaccurate. Palazzo Chigi was not the seat of the Prime Minister of Italy at that time or, according even to the Wiki article on the building, until 1961. Mussolini worked out of Palazzo Venezia. So, at least, the bit in parentheses is wrong. If the original source cited uses the name of Palazzo Chigi, and so describes it, it is also wrong. If the source cites Palazzo Chigi in a context meaning the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which is possible, then this may be accurate. Random noter (talk) 23:44, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palazzo Chigi