Talk:Greece/Archive 1

message: Am I missing something or is there no mention of the original Summer Olympic Games anywhere in the Greek articles?  This has to be fixed, surely! violet/riga (t) 16:28, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder why there's no mention of the original Winter Olympic Games either. :) Etz Haim 20:01, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Olympics 

message: The bolded part of the phrase "Tensions continue to exist between Greece and Turkey over Cyprus and the delimitation of borders in the Aegean Sea" has been described as a "foolish comment" in 82.35.40.249's edit summaries, or even worse, "rewriting history the Turkish way". So he removed it. I've explained to him in his talk page that this is neither favoring Turkey nor endorsing its claims, and that this is a representation of the facts only. Despite my suggestions, he kept reverting the page to his version. Doesn't the issue of the Aegean "gray zones" deserve a mention? Comments, please. Etz Haim 16:16, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  A "foolish comment" 

message: User:128.113.201.75 has reverted the article thrice now. He is tryint to inject a nationalistic POV into the article by suggesting that most greeks want all immigrants in greece deported. 
i've left a message in his talk page. if he keeps at it, i'm asking for page protection.
Project2501a 13:23, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  edits by User:128.113.201.75 

message: Sorry, it seems I accidentally screwed up editing this page.I tried to revert to an earlier (non vandalised) version of this page and actually reinstated the vandalised parts.My bad. --Jsone42 18:48, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jsone42' edit 

message: I started moving Greek rivers to their modern Greek names, using the UN/ELOT romanization. That is, for rivers that aren't known in English under other names, for instance because they also flow through other countries. Aliákmon caused discussion on some points: 
*do we want accents in the article titles? I'd say it's OK, as long as there are redirects from accentless names. But we should be consistent in that.
*how do we decide if a name, if it's different from the modern Greek name, is the common name in English? Aliákmon would be Aliákmonas in modern Greek. Markussep 09:09, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: River names

message: What about the turkish people at western thrace? It should be mentioned at the article.
The Turks of Western Thrace are not mentioned because they are not they main population of Hellas. Besides Greece respects its Turkish minority which has the same rights to the rest of the citizens. In addition Turkey always apears with no Yunan (Greek) minority, and consequently deprives them of a lot of their rights. Petros The Greek 1 July 2005 15:24 (UTC)
I'm afraid it's not entirely true. As a citizen of Turkey and a resident of Istanbul, I, as the majority of Turks living in this country, respect the rights of the Greek minority and proudly say that the relationship between two countries are finally coming to a civilised point (the guilt is equally shared); the issue would be them not being treated as a minority anymore, perhaps? For example, most foreign Istanbul residents are from very old and well-known families living in the best and wealthiest quarters of the city. They are by no means treated as foreign or minority. They have the right to attend their religious services (Every district of Istanbul has more than one church and synagogue, most of them very old and respected structures), they do not have any difficulty finding a job (after Turkey joined the world which is getting more and more globalised/and the improving relationship between Greece and Turkey supported the international job openings). The tension between Greece and Turkey is farce and unnecessary, and perhaps even enforced by other countries. I hope the lack of information above is not clouded by any prejudice. Linus 15 July 2005 23:09
: man, i love you. I really do. If you could make that official put that on a website like the Hurriet's I could abolish conscription both in Greece and Turkey tommorow morning. Tell me, is it true that the turkish media mentions that the greek fighter planes violate the turkish airspace each day? (Hint, Greece spends 5% of it's GDP on armaments. Who do you think has an interest in keeping up the arm race? The arms dealers of course) Project2501a 00:31, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics 

message: Under the heading of "Local Government" the information provided in this article states this: "The 51 nomoi subdivide into 147 eparchies (singular eparchia), which contain 1,033 municipalities: 900 urban municipalities (demoi) and 133 rural communities (koinotetes). Before 1999, Greece's local government structure featured 5,775 local authorities: 457 demoi and 5,318 koinotetes, subdivided into 12,817 localities (oikosmoi)."  However, in reading through the Greek embassy information in Warsaw, Poland I noted the following: "Greece is divided into 52 prefectures (nomoi-singular: nomos) which are in turn divided into 147 provinces (eparchies-singular: eparchia). The eparchies are subdivided into 272 municipalities (demoi)."  Have the municipalities been further enlarged?  Tim Graff 13:52, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
:What is the status on provinces/eparchies? I just checked the Ministry of Interior website. I can't read Greek very well, but I see no reference to anything but peripheries (perifereies), prefectures (nomarchies) and local government (municipalities/dimoi and communities/koinotites). Fortunately there is some English there, the explanation of the Kapodistrias programme for local government reform. Has this reform been completed already? BTW, they show a subdivision of the Attica periphery as well, into the prefectures Athens-Piraeus, East Attica and West Attica. Markussep 10:33, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Local Government 

message: Is this article correct? Provinces of Greece. Should it be redirected to Prefectures of Greece? Revolución 04:27, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Provinces (eparchies) are subdivisions of (some) prefectures, but I'm not sure they still exist, for instance the Greek ministry of the interior does not mention them. They may also be traditional small regions. Maybe someone from Greece can comment on that? Markussep 13:34, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Provinces of Greece? 

message: The article Names of the Greeks has been nominated for WP:FAC. You can add your vote Wikipedia:Featured article candidates if you would like to support the article. Colossus 19:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Names of the Greeks]] 

message: The usual translation of Ελληνικός (the adjective relating to Greece, its people, or its language) in English is "Greek". "Hellenic" is also proper English (definition in the Merriam-Webster dictionary: of or relating to Greece, its people, or its language; specifically : of or relating to ancient Greek history, culture, or art before the Hellenistic period), but not nearly as common as "Greek". Here in Wikipedia both terms are used, which I think can lead to unnecessary confusion. For instance the translation of Ελληνική Δημοκρατία right on top of this article: why not make that "Greek Republic" instead of "Hellenic Republic"?
I propose to replace "Hellenic" with "Greek" in all instances where it clearly refers to modern Greece, e.g. Greek Republic, Greek Army. Except when it is part of a proper English name, like Hellenic Journal. Reactions? Markussep 11:05, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hellenic Republic is the name Greece is admitted into the United Nations. Colossus 14:25, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Also the article starts with: "Greece, officialy the...".  I don't think that hellenic and greek are liable to cause confusion. Compare to eire-ireland. See also: Names of the Greeks.Michalis Famelis 21:39, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

text: You're right that there's no confusion possible there. I do think articles like Hellenic Army and Hellenic National Intelligence Service should be renamed. Markussep 22:46, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion, it is true that the use of both Hellenic and Greek is causing no confusion. However the term Hellenic is more proper as it is the original name of the nation (and whatever is related to it). The name of the state is Hellenic Republic and the name of the country Hellas (like "People's republic of China" and "China"). Petros The Greek 12:54, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Well, in English, the name of the country is "Greece", not "Hellas". Or are we going to call China "Zhongguo"? Markussep 07:26, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not really a matter of what is the "proper name" or the "original name" or what is the name the UN uses. It all boils down to wheather "hellas" (and derivatives) can be used interchangeably with "greece" and derivatives without creating confusion to readers that are not accustomed to the matter. Imho, "hellenic" should be used at those instances such as "Hellenic Army" where that is the formal name of the institution and "greek" for articles that generally refer to anything greek (such as Greek frappé coffee). Apart from all that, using two or more names to refer to a country and/or its people is not uncommon and also is not a greek "priviledge". "Britain" and "UK" are no source of confusion, "Eire" and "Ireland" neither , and I dont think anyone would want the article on Deutsche Welle or Deutsche Oper Berlin be renamed "German Welle" or "German Oper Berlin". Michalis Famelis 10:38, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I very much support the informed logic of Mr. Famelis on this.DaveHM 19:08, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Hellenic or Greek

message: An anon just added a pro-fascist website to the external links.  While the website itself is mostly just articles praising Metaxas, it contains approving links to much more extreme Neo-Nazi websites.  I clarified this in the link description, but that should not be taken as my voting that the link belongs here.  Jkelly 00:40, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Pro-fascist website added

message: I just reverted a change by an anon which swapped "Vlach" for "Aromanian".  It is my understanding that not all Vlachs are Aromanians (although all Aromanians are Vlachs).  Can we get a citatation for the ethnic makeup of Greece used in this article? Jkelly 05:06, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Vlachs and Aromanians

message: Over the course of the last few weeks, anons have been adding the adjective Greek (with a wikilink) in front of various places that the Byzatine Empire is mentioned in the article.  Is there some other Byzatine Empire out there that we need to differentiate from?  And, if there was, shouldn't that instead be discussed at Byzantine Empire? Jkelly 03:08, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your response.  Please refer to Wikipedia:Naming_conventions which directs editors to use the most common name a subject is known by.  While an argument that the Byzantine Empire should be referred to instead as the "Greek Byzantine Empire" may be both sound and interesting, it is not up to Wikipedia (or us as editors) to attempt to set common usage.  "Greek Byzantine Empire" gets 714 hits on Google .  "Byzantine Empire" gets 805,000 .  If you disagree with the Wikipedia naming policy, you should feel free to attempt to change policy at Wikipedia talk:Naming_conventions and gather consensus.  Until the policy changes, or the English-speaking world adopts "Greek Byzantine Empire", however, the usage doesn't belong in Wikipedia articles.  Thanks again.  Jkelly 03:39, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Greek" Byzantine Empire

message: Although there is a lot about the names of the Greek nation in this article, and while it is stated clearly that Greeks prefer to call themselves Hellenes and their country Hellas, the name of the arteicle is Greece. Could that possibly change to Hellas? I think it would be better if 'Greece' was redirected in 'Hellas' rather than the opposite! Petros The Greek 13:45, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been discussed in the past.  Please review earlier parts of the Talk page.  The Wikipedia rule is to use the most familiar English name, so for example we have "Germany" and not "Deutschland", "Japan" and not "Nihon", etc.  Greece is by far the most familiar English name.  You will find, for example, that in the U.S., Greek embassies and consulates list themselves under "Greece/Greek", not "Hellas/Hellenic".  I know there is an old story circulating that "Greek" is somehow not a name of Greek origin, but in the article Names of the Greeks, you will see that it has just as Hellenic (!) an etymology as "Hellenic". --Macrakis 14:24, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  you know what the most funny thing is? we rave about the macedonia naming and they got a greek (mahaha) name, but we don't for our country on wikipedia. --62.1.235.204 06:24, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Hellas" rather than "Greece" 

message: I have been puzzled about the status and subdivisions of Attica. If I understand the Greek ministry of the interior correctly (my Greek is very shaky), Attica is a periphery (Περιφέρεια). It is subdivided into four prefectures (Νομαρχιακή Αυτοδιοίκηση): Athens, Piraeus, West Attica and East Attica. However, some prefectures (Athens, Piraeus, and outside Attica also Drama, Kavala, Xanthi, Evros and Rhodope) are called differently (Νομαρχιακό Διαμέρισμα), and grouped into Νομαρχιακή Αυτοδιοίκηση. Is this correct? If it is, this should be reflected in the various articles about the subdivisions of Greece. Markussep 12:58, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Attica

message: Can you expand this article Northern Greece instead of redirect to Greece? Thankx.  Bonaparte  talk 09:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Northern Greece

message: I see that this page is now little more than an advertisement for tourism, with little factual information or critical analysis. Maybe we can add a small paragraph, explaining that all modern Greeks care about is MONEY. --87.202.25.88 17:15, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not an acceptable comment. Please adhere to civility and etiquette. Thanks. El_C 18:40, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertisement for tourism 

message: Stop doing this. The page is free for everyone to add or remove something but it shouldn't be changed every minute. And for the above guy who removed whole paragraphs: Where did u find the "nationalistic context"? Should modern Greeks ask you with what they are gonna care about? What's ur problem? Get a life.
Fuck you. The page is free for Greeks to fuck up, right. Keep up the good work. --87.202.25.88 18:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Everyone must cease immediately from personal attacks and nationalistic diatribes, and attend to the subject at hand. Namely, correct formatting of the article and discussion as to what is or isn't pertinent; see my edit summary for details. El_C 18:37, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  For the idiots who delete paragraphs or photos 

message: I removed the cleanup tag. It appeared that it was placed due to issues with the ugly formatting of pictures. Since I see no problems with the formatting now, I removed it. Since the page has been contentiously edited I just wanted to explain my removal. I'm No Parking and  I approved this message 13:49, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Cleanup tag 

message: Should the fact that a formed King of Greece still claims the title be mentioned in the infobox? I think so. Pelegius, not having logged in.
: As a matter of principle, infoboxes for countries aren't the proper place to report claims of Greek citizens to the title of the King of Greece. It is clear in the specific articles about history and his person, what the situation is, therefore it doesn't aid the reader's understanding to include any other such entry. Donnerstag 00:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: KING

message: I notice that some time in the last couple of months the sports section was removed.  The article's length is definitely a concern, but I am unsure that cutting that section is the best way to trim it.  Thoughts?  Jkelly 00:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sport in Greece is already covered in the article Culture of Greece. It wouldn't hurt to write something about sport under the culture header, I guess. Markussep 17:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sports section removed 

message: This time the anon was posting from an IP address previously used by User:Bitola. There seems to be an organized effort to change FYROM to RoM in Greek related articles (previously in Florina, currently in Vergina Sun) with 2-3 people simultaneously coming in and rving to RoM , deleting any references to the naming dispute, in violation of the naming policy (see Talk:Vergina Sun). Using wolf-pack tactics and anonymity, these people are trying to achive in WP what they can't achieve in places where facts matter (the UN, the EU, etc.). Sysin 11:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RoM invasion, again 

message: Substituted at 20:28, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment