Talk:Hot Coffee (minigame)

message: IF this article survives VfD, it should be moved to Hot Coffee mod to provide better disambiguation.  There was a fork of this article at Hot Coffee mod, which has now been redirected here.  Due to the VfD tag (please do not blank, merge, or move this article, or remove this notice, while the discussion is in progress), the article was merged here until the VfD is settled.  -- Norvy (talk) 11:45, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: This article is baaadly in need of one. It's rather relevant with Jack Thompson in trouble and Clinton running for the presidency Firebomb Fritz (talk) 10:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No part of it should have ever been written in the present tense in the first place — TheBilly(Talk) 19:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update 

message: Refering to the recent redirecting of the Hot Coffee mod to Hot coffee, I have decided to revert the latest edits and copy all relevent contents from "Hot coffee" back to "Hot Coffee mod".
The problem with the "Hot coffee" title is that it isn't fully capitalized and may also imply that the article is refering to a cup of hot coffee (this has been mentioned in a tagged comment in the main Hot coffee article). Secondly, even with "Coffee" capitalize, the term "Hot Coffee" itself is vague in meaning. It is for that reason that I believe that the article is better named "Hot Coffee mod", since the mod is essentially, well, a mod named after its association with CJ's girlfriend asking CJ to come home for a cup of coffee. I also approve for the inclusion of a diambaguation text (to "coffee") on top of this article.
Note that there is also a related Hot Coffee article that has now become a redirect page to the "Hot Coffee mod" article.
╫ 25 chatter ↔ grafitti 07:54, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I merged Hot coffee and Hot Coffee mod because they are duplicate articles.  Having two different articles on the same thing leads to different quality articles and creates double the work for everyone.  The reason I merged into Hot coffee specifically is because it's up for VfD.  You are welcome to edit this article, but please do not blank, merge, or move this article, or remove this notice, while the discussion is in progress.  Simply creating a second Hot Coffee article is not an appropriate way to bypass VfD.  After the VfD has concluded, I would fully support moving the article to Hot Coffee mod, and will change the note at the top to reflect that.  -- Norvy (talk) 14:53, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hot coffee]] and [[Hot Coffee mod]] 

message: I marked the Interlingua article with the  template, because it seemed like news to me.  Should the English article also be so edited?  Almafeta 17:33, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: News?

message: Is this the first time a video game had its rating changed ex post facto? If so, we might want to mention that. Addaone 00:57, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
: No, it's not the first time a game has been rerated after the fact.  Dungeon Siege had its rating changed after the fact because of the "chunky" and "superchunky" cheat codes.  It was rerated from a "T" to an "M".  The "T" rating was restored after a patch was released to remove those code and remastered media were distributed. 66.180.121.115 16:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: However it is the first time a game has been rerated because of a third-party mod. -- Jordi·✆ 16:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The "censored" version? The re-release has not been censored, the only difference is that the disabled sex game has been completely removed. No other changes were made. -- Jordi·✆ 16:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rating Change 

message: Why the hell would the console versons receive an Ao rating just because of some dumb PC mod for GTA:SA? I thought GTA:SA was good enough as it is and dosen't deserve an obscene mod.  I mean, why would console versions be banned from stores just because of the PC version? --SuperDude 19:50, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the mini-game is still accessible on the console (only PS2 is mentioned, so I don't know if it's also on the XBox), albeit only by using a cheater (GameShark or Action Replay Max). --Nuggetboy 20:09, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  HCm scandal 

message: Might be because I am Swedish, but I have a hard time seeing how a silly sex-game would require a more "mature" rating than all the gratutious violence otherwise featured in the game.
:Yeah, it really stems out of how prude the United States is. What is also ridiculous is that the age to buy a "Mature" game is 17+, whereas the age for an "Adults Only" game is 18+ ... wow, a whole year, what a difference it will make on the impressionable youth! -- MacAddct1984 21:42, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
The difference lies in the retailers carrying it. The biggest retailers (Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City) will not sell Ao games.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.105.89.216 (talk) .
I was a bit baffled by the article, much like the Swedish person above. Perhaps it should be mentioned in the article that while the rating difference is superficially about one year difference only, there's more politics behind it than would seem at first? Is there an explanation of it somewhere? I think this article generally needs more explanation of the background issues to be comprehensible to non-Americans.
There are other strange things in the controversy section, too. E.g. this:
:Jack Thompson, a lawyer and anti-video game activist from Florida, was one of the first to criticize the game for its recently found content. Thompson believes that violent media such as video games are one of the main sources of violent crime in America and has lashed out against Rockstar on several occasions for previous games they have developed.
The first sentence is clear, but then, instead of explaining the criticism of the new content, it is explained that the person has previously criticized violence in the media. But the new content is not violent. What is the relationship here? Also, why is a lawyer activist notable enough to mention first, before such people as a senator? Was he prominent in the traditional media, or what?
The article also says this: "In New York, a class action lawsuit has been filed by Florence Cohen, an 85-year old grandmother who purchased the game for her 14-year old grandson (according to the old rating of M, the game is typically considered inappropriate for this age)." Is the person who filed it, and her personal (absurd) motive really notable here, instead of the actual content, legal basis, etc. of the lawsuit (note that it's class action, not individual lawsuit)? As it's about whether the rating is 17+ or 18+ (which, incidentally, is why the anecdote of the 14-year-old is absurd), and the minigame was disabled in the distributed version, it would seem that the case has snowball's chances in hell of succeeding -- could the basis be elaborated on? As it stands the paragraph serves more to ridicule the case than to discuss it objectively. Also, is the media publicity of the lawsuit (if there was much?) actually the notable part, instead of the lawsuit itself?
"A few sites have emerged as beacons of pro-game activism such as".. Beacons? Heh, I think I'll change this one to read "A few pro-game activist sites have also emerged, such as", as "beacons" implies that this is the enlightened POV. The rest requires more information about the subject matter, which I don't have. -- Coffee2theorems | Talk 22:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just a thought 

message: In the Mod Overview section, it says "The sexual minigame may well have been abandoned before completion, as suggested by the fact that one of the six girlfriends, Michelle, is flagrantly mistextured. Bitch"
So I removed the word bitch. :)
:A likely overlooked POV statement or vandalism. Thanks for fixing this. :D ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 16:36, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: technically you already forgot it. many thanks for cleaning up the article!the juggreserection (talk) 17:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michelle is not a bitch. 

message: "While there may be merit to claims that it objectifies or demeans women, any assertions of rape are totally false."
I've obtained 100% completion in the game and got 100% relationship stats with all six girlfriends with and without "Hot Coffee" and I'm wondering if someone could clarify what exactly about the unused minigame is demeaning to women?  The only possible arguement I could see having any validity are the things C.J. says to his girlfriends: he often blows them off and doesn't listen to what they say and pretty obviously doesn't care.  While I think this in itself is highly debatable whether or not it "demeans women", it's important to note that this content is part of the unmodified game and has nothing to do with the sex minigame.  Even the phrases C.J. and the girlfriends say during intercourse are present with the censor, albeit muffled versions of them.  So what about the actual portions of the unlocked minigame objectifies or demeans women at all?  They are both having sex with clothes on, why single out the women as the ones being demeaned?  Is it because they are not the protagonist? pinky 22:12, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup. Changed to "Whether or not there is any merit..."; saying there "may be" merit is weasel POV. EdC 22:01, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demeaning to women? 

message: I don't see how the following paragraph describes something constituting a spoof:
"I'm O.K - A Murder Simulator features a humorous sex scene involving Jack Thompson and characters from the game that can be accessed by using the Konami Code and pressing enter at the game's start screen."
Either someone familiar with this scene should describe how this is a spoof of the Hot Coffee incident or the paragraph should be deleted.  As it is, it sounds like something in another game that may be similar to what's described in this article, but it does not constitute a spoof/parody. DavidGC 12:01, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One week without comment.  Am deleting portion.  If explanation can be offered, please do so and re-add portion. DavidGC 16:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

text: There was a little mug of steaming coffee next to the bed, which made the reference obvious. Maybe that should have been mentioned. That, and the game was made to make fun of Jack Thompson, one of the first to lash out against it, as well as controversy over video game content in general.
There's a car commercial that struck me as relating to Hot Coffee.  A guy's taking his date home, puts his hand on her car, gets a strange flash of speed and intensity or whatever, and the girl pulls him away, saying something like "Not on a first date."  She then invites him in for coffee.  I almost laughed for five minutes; if the marketers meant that how they meant it, then that's saying something about how the girl values her car, you know?
Any way, I don't know if we would put that in the spoof section, but I want to know if anyone agrees with me. _mich 02:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hot Coffee spoofs 

message: This reads like Rockstar damage control, or more probably rockstars biggest fanboy. JayKeaton 09:49, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to describe any specific problems here. We're open to comments. ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 19:27, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

text: One problen in the article is the implication that the nude models in the Hot Coffee mini-game were created by a third party and this is simply not true. These models for the females are available in the console version as well which in turn means that they are part of the origional code. This still does nothing to answer the riddle of why this mini-game was made at all and in fact raises even more questions. With this content, especially with the fact that it is inherently available in a nude version there is no way that the game would have gotten anything other than an AO rating. To date Sony has never endorsed a game with this rating and there is litte chance that they ever would. Why then would they go through all the work of creating a feature that they knew that they would never be able to release lagitimately. I feel that it must be that what this really is is about the most expensive practical joke in history raising the posibility that when R* put out in the beginning that this was a user mod they weren't simply trying to hide the truth but really though that that was the truth since the higher ups weren't in on the gag.--Hellfireboy 19:19, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who wrote this? 

message: ...how well-written this article is. Just thought I'd mention that. Toscaesque 13:52, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  It's kind of insane... 

message: This article isn't very neutral.  The way it rants about "anti-video game activists" is the same way a pro-choice person rants about "anti-choice" people or a pro-life person rants about "anti-life" people.  These people aren't against all video games per se, but against a handful of the most violent and explicit games.  Maybe "video game content activist" would be a more neutral term.  I made some changes, but it's still not enough.  Personally, I think Jack Thompson is wrong, but Wikipedia must take a neutral stance, not lending any more credibility to the "pro-gamers" who are "fighting back" than to Thompson.  
Also, I can't find a reliable source where Jack Thompson compared the ESA guy to Hitler.  One GameSpot article says something along the lines of, "Jack Thompson once made headlines for comparing Lowenstein to Hitler", but I haven't been able to find any of those headlines.  What was his exact quote?  I put up a "citation needed" pending a link to a reliable source with a direct quote.
24.199.113.215 10:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with this. This article makes no mention of the fact that the content was not meant to be accessable to the public. 68.42.213.177 01:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality? 

message: "Jak X: Combat Racing features an unlockable dubbed 'Hot Coffee' that stars Daxter and his girlfriend Tess."
Features an unlockable? Is unlockable a noun I don't know about? Anyway, it just confuses me and maybe someone should change it.
* "Unlockable" is commonly used as a noun in the context of video games; it's short for "unlockable extra feature". CNash 23:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  odd sentence 

message: I think it would be good if someone added a paragraph describing how common it is that unused content is contained in a game program's (or software in general) data and provide a few notable examples. I mean, pretty much every software designer for every software project has components that are being worked on and end up uncompleted or otherwise unused when the decision is made to finish the project. I don't know why, and perhaps somebody else can explain, but it seems that it's easier for programmers to leave this unused content in their software and simply lock it away (prevent the user from accessing it) rather than removing it from the game program completely. In video games, the content turns out to be unifinished levels, extra characters, extra items, extra dialogue, and any manner of other things. Gamers often discover these by using hacking devices or exploiting glitches. The software designer decides not to use these things usually because they could not be completed properly in time, but it could be for other reasons. For instance, I'm sure Rockstar initially intended Hot Coffee to be part of the final game, but then someone inside the company (or TakeTwo) decided that they shouldn't have this game in there after all because it might not pass for an 'M' rating. So they lock it away (as I said seems to be the normal procedure for software design, rather than actually removing the data, agian I don't know exactly why it's done this way), and not really being part of the game, the ESRB doesn't see this content.
So I'm pretty sure all, or most video games have  unused content that the end players are not meant to ever find. However, in this case, the it happened to be sexually explicit. I do not believe that it was Rockstar's intention to hide this Hot Coffee minigame as some kind of joke or something. It was an idea that they decided not to use, and as standard industy practice goes, they just prevented access to it. They didn't actually delete it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Olanmills (talk • contribs) 
Good point most games do have unused content, even big blockbuster games like GTA:SA and HL2 (Half-Life 2).  For example you can clip through a wall in Half-Life 2 and find an ammo box for the planned sniper rifle that was replaced with a crossbow.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.254.202.46 (talk) 02:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Context 

message: I trimmed out quite a few un-needed and pointless external links, and am putting this here so people that find that I accidentally removed a link I shouldn't have, forgot to remove one, etc have a place to tell me. previously it was a mass of links that were mostly clutter or unrelated and had a cleanup tag above it. thank you. Yadaman 20:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good to hear, the section was just spamming the article. If you like trimming unnecessary external links, don't forget to visit :Category:Wikipedia external links cleanup. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 20:06, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links clutter 

message: What is the point of this section? It merely states someone's opinion. Would anyone care to expand on it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nishaddatta (talk • contribs) 04:55, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary 

message: :Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.
====Survey - in support of the move====
#
====Survey - in opposition to the move====
#
#Oppose - the new title would be misleading - it makes me think of that woman who sued the crap out of Mcdonalds 10 years ago for spilling hot coffee on herself. Try something else, like Hot Coffee mod controversy. Patstuarttalk|edits 06:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: #
#Oppose - the new title would be misleading - it makes me think of that woman who sued the crap out of Mcdonalds 10 years ago for spilling hot coffee on herself. Try something else, like Hot Coffee mod controversy. Patstuarttalk|edits 06:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in opposition to the move

message: Although some may perceive he is, he, in reality, is not. Thompson is only against video games he finds objectionable, such as violent games, sexual content games, etc. This is not ALL video games. There are educational video games too with none of the content he perceives to be objectionable. Heyfunboy 15:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. Oggleboppiter 10:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not an "anti-video game" person. 

message: This article states the Hot Coffee mod, and any mod which modifies the main.scm file is not a breach of the EULA (End User License Agreement).  Since creating a modified scm file decompliling and recompiling and, inherently distributing that file, which Take Two publically stated against the EULA (and it sounds like if it's the City EULA, they're right, then it would be a breach of the EULA.
Anyone have any evidence that it isn't?  The article's defense is Rockstar's support for the mod community general - but that in itself isn't directed at the EULA and hardly counts as a factual answer.  Vote for a change in wording.  
--Inkless 06:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breach of EULA 

message: The second paragraph of the lead starts out, "The minigame portrays simulated sexual intercourse..."
Is the minigame really meant to depict characters simulating sexual intercourse?  The minigame either is simulated sex, or it portrays sex.  Any comments before I change it?  Eleven even (talk) 10:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Late, but: It portrays dry humping. Dry humping is simulated sexual intercourse, thus the mod depicts characters simulating sexual intercourse.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.97.120.131 (talk) 20:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead section 

message: I'm PatrickW, and I would just like to point out that my age is wrong in this article. I'm born in 1969, currently 39 thus.
As I'm not going to edit content about myself, I leave it upto someone else.
(My age has been reported correctly in almost all article from the time of the controversie, (just as a reference). )  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.178.70.242 (talk) 14:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age of creator wrong 

message: I've heard many rumors that people are working on releasing a mod for the new releases that would reinsert the deleted Rockstar code. Has anyone heard anything more about this, and if so, why hasn't it been released yet? Coolgamer (talk) 03:21, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second Edition Patch? 

message: The article is wrong under "Minigame overview and Hot Coffee mod": "None of the six possible sex scenes involve any nudity ..."
when it DOES: see http://www.gametrailers.com/player/6810.html
77.117.253.252 (talk) 21:32, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well. The problem is people made several variations of the mod, all of them with basically the same name. I think the original mod that kicked off this little party, made by Patrick, did not use the nude textures. Then someone discovered that the girlfriends had  nude textures in the peds file and made an updated mod that used them. Most (all?) of the subsequent variations did the same. So, the line is accurate but only for the original mod. Rooker75 (talk) 12:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hot Coffee patch does 
not
 involve nudity? 

message: I was wondering what point the picture being there serves. The article states that there is no nudity from the actual hot coffee mod as does the picture, so why do they add the nude girls mod on top of it. Is this Simply to make the mod seem worse than it all ready is.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Garethmagis (talk • contribs) 16:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Would the article be any poorer if it didn't have the image at all?  Astronaut (talk) 14:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The "nude girls modification" is not present in the image. Her clothes are on, they're just very very white. Also, read this. --   GameShowKid – talk – evidence   16:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I never said anything about the "nude girls modification" and I am quite aware Wikipedia is not censored, but what does the current image add to the article?  Astronaut (talk) 04:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was replying to the person before you. I just accidentally used two indentations, making it seem like I was replying to you. Sorry about that. --   GameShowKid – talk – evidence   04:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: * http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-30-who-spilled-hot-coffee
* https://www.wired.com/2007/03/ff-160-rockstar-2/
* https://www.wired.com/2011/04/all-your-base-excerpt/
* http://archive.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2005/07/68284?currentPage=all
* http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/11/technology/in-video-game-a-download-unlocks-hidden-sex-scenes.html
* https://www.cnet.com/uk/news/grand-theft-auto-creator-sues-bbc-over-behind-the-scenes-look-at-game/
* https://www.cnet.com/news/how-grand-theft-auto-changed-video-games-and-the-world/
* http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/04/05/hot-coffee-gamings-greatest-story
* http://www.usgamer.net/articles/the-day-that-even-grand-theft-auto-obeyed-the-limits
* http://www.usgamer.net/articles/the-5-most-shocking-grand-theft-auto-moments
* http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/14/nyregion/clinton-urges-inquiry-into-hidden-sex-in-grand-theft-auto-game.html
* http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/hot-coffee-controversy-grows-as-hilary-clinton-weighs-in
* http://www.gamespot.com/articles/hillary-clinton-to-take-on-rockstar-over-hot-coffee/1100-6129021/
* http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/hot-coffee-spills-in-australia-as-san-andreas-is-banned
* http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/news300106hotcoffeelawsuit
* https://www.wired.com/2008/06/2676-claim-outr/
* https://www.cnet.com/news/esrb-to-investigate-san-andreas-sex-content/
* https://www.engadget.com/2009/09/01/take-two-finally-settles-with-investors-for-20m-over-hot-cof/
**http://kotaku.com/5350482/take-two-reaches-20m-settlement-in-gta-hot-coffee-suit
* http://kotaku.com/5504912/the-grand-theft-auto-hot-coffee-payout-checks-are-in-the-mail
* http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2007/11/take-two-proposes-settlement-over-hot-coffee/
* http://kotaku.com/5963001/hot-coffee-scandal-was-an-attack-on-video-games-says-grand-theft-auto-maker
* http://www.pcgamer.com/rockstar-hot-coffee-controversy/
* http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-11-22-rockstars-houser-hot-coffee-was-draining-and-upsetting
* http://www.gamespot.com/articles/rockstar-gta-hot-coffee-scandal-was-draining-and-upsetting/1100-6400383/
* http://www.polygon.com/2016/4/14/11428072/the-great-grand-theft-auto-lawsuit-explained
* https://www.wired.com/2015/09/bbc-gamechangers/
** http://kotaku.com/the-bbcs-grand-theft-auto-docudrama-is-a-titanic-disapp-1731080059
* http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-09-16-esrb-rated-t-for-twenty-years-old
* http://www.gamesradar.com/the-simpsons-serves-hot-coffee/
* http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/22/opinion/grand-theft-adult.html
(not watching, please ) czar 18:10, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source dump 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:11, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 9 December 2021 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved. There is a consensus that Hot Coffee is the common name not only for the mod/patch, but also the untitled minigame. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 17:33, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hot Coffee (mod) →  – This article discusses two things: a sexual intercourse minigame and a mod that unlocks said minigame. The main subject of this article is the minigame. The development, controversy, all revolve around the minigame. Several sentences in the article erroneously referred to the minigame as "mod", meanwhile the mod itself is sometimes referred as "patch". Neocorelight (Talk) 11:52, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an interesting point, but it doesn't matter what Rockstar called the minigame, it matters what the minigame is called by sources, per WP:COMMONNAME. A quick scan of the sources produces no clear result there - it seems the name is used interchangeably to refer to the game and the mod that unlocks the game. If it's decided that "Hot Coffee (mod)" is the correct title for the article then the article body (such as the lead sentence I quoted above) needs to be altered to reflect that. Popcornfud (talk) 01:56, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Then going that around, there are actual two better names (given sourcing I was just doing): Hot Coffee scandal or Hot Coffee controversy (eg in either case, dropping the parenthetical) Both are terms used in the sourcing, though I think the latter is more neutral as it was less a "scandal" after all was said and done. --Masem (t) 02:45, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

text: The (unnofficial) name of the minigame is Hot Coffee as RSs call it, this name is taken from the mod that unlocked it, which in turn is taken from in-game slang for sex. The subject of this article is the minigame and per COMMONNAME, its title is Hot Coffee. Neocorelight (Talk) 02:05, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Keeping the current title is unrepresentative of the content because the mod is not the subject of the article. We certainly wouldn't title this article "Cut sexual intercourse minigame in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas". Neocorelight (Talk) 02:16, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

text:  I just wanna make sure that's definitely true. I only did a very quick source check, and the results were mixed based on that, so don't just take my word on it.  Popcornfud (talk) 02:58, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I did a cursory glance at recent sources that brought up the conundrum due to its discovery in the Definitive Edition collection, and they refer to the minigame itself as Hot Coffee: Nintendo Life ("Hot Coffee was a naughty hidden minigame..."), Video Games Chronicle ("... files claimed by users to be related to the infamous, canned San Andreas sex mini-game 'Hot Coffee'"), IGN ("... it also appears to contain files related to the infamous sex mini-game 'hot coffee'"), and Eurogamer ("Dataminers have discovered code relating to the infamous Hot Coffee mini-game..."). I think it's safe to say that the name "Hot Coffee", in the decade-and-a-half since the controversy, is now generally used to refer to the minigame itself rather than the patch that was created to unlock it. I think "Hot Coffee (mod)" was an acceptable name when the article was first created, because "Hot Coffee" was the name of the mod. But times change, and I think these sources serve as a testament to that. JOEBRO64 03:10, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 10 February 2022