Talk:A Scanner Darkly

message: 'Use' is a statement of fact. 'Abuse' is a pov. Unless you can say who thought it was an abuse, let's stick to saying it was use. Guttlekraw 00:00, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The book is about the consequences of using Substance D, a lethal, addictive drug.  The book is about drug abuse, not recreational drug use. Perhaps you should read the Authors note.  The PKD estate had this to say about the film, A Scanner Darkly is one of our father's most personal stories because much of it is based on his own experiences. For this reason, it was especially important to us that it be done with all of the right intentions. His struggle with drug abuse is well documented, and he (and we) have witnessed many casualties. The novel is filled with his humor and his own tragedies. And we believe that Richard's screenplay manages to capture these key elements -- he has even included our father's poignant afterword in his adaptation.   Also see his letters about the dangers of drug abuse. ---Viriditas  | Talk 00:17, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it's clearly a piece of advocacy about his opinions about drug use. He thinks it's abuse. I think we can attibute those beliefs without stating them as fact. Guttlekraw 00:20, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the author's note at the end of the book contradicts your assumption.  Have you read the book? --Viriditas  | Talk 00:30, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it doesn't. The statements in the book are merely claims made by Dick, based on his own perception of what he thinks happened and in all likelihood personal bias. It is for instance easier to blame a suicide on LSD than to acknowledge that the person was deeply troubled, possibly well beyond salvation. I don't dispute that some people come to serious harm from their actions, but it can hardly be said that Dick would have been seeing a true representation of drug users, since we're talking about people so far gone that they wonder about staying in the homes of strangers, thus his perception would be skewed. And this is all assuming any of these things even happened, since let's not forget Dick appears to have been prone to paranoid delusions and hallucinations, a history of mental illness.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.212.26.115 (talk) 06:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

text: The author's note states his point of view. How could it state anything other than his point of view? If I write a book saying that George Bush is a fascist, then write an authors note saying that the book is about George Bush being a fascist, it is still my point of view, not a fact. Guttlekraw 00:35, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: So I take it no, you haven't read the book?  You don't seem to be familiar with the NPOV policy, so take the time to read it.  This article is about PKD's book, not what you think of it.  --Viriditas  | Talk 00:36, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: Again, you don't seem to have read the NPOV policy, as this is a problem you are having on multiple articles.  Your bias is evident, as you are going around the Wikipedia altering the context of quotes and content to reflect your opinion.  Please read the policy. --Viriditas  | Talk 19:36, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: It's fine for you to says so, that's your opinion. It's fine to put opinions in the article, as long as we reference them and don't present them as facts. If someone was killed in a reckless hang-gliding acident we would not call them a hang-gliding abuser, would we? It's a value judgement. Guttlekraw 15:43, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a slippery slope--go too far and everything can be considered opinion, because perception is always influenced by the preconceive notions of the perceiver.  Is telling your child "no" abuse?  How about spanking?  Locking them in a closet for an hour?  Keeping them locked in a room and without human contact for 13 years?  People can be found that will take both sides of any of those, but at some point an overwhelming majority of society takes a stand and says, "this is abuse".  It is true that "Drug abuse" is a statement of opinion; what matters is who's opinion.  Dick was writing about drug abuse, because that's what he considered it--abuse.  That is not an opinion, that is a fact--it's what the author was writing about.  Whether you or anyone else considers the level of drug use to be "abuse" isn't an issue, the fact remains that Dick did consider it so, and his opinion is what counts here--especially as this is FICTION, and there are no "facts" involved...  scot 16:11, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure - I agree - let's state that it was his opinion that this drug use was abuse. That's something that we all agree on. Where I part company with Viriditas is when he wants to make the general statement that drug use = drug abuse. As someone's opinion, referenced, that's fine. As a statement of fact it is nonsense.  I read from the above that we all agree that the quote from the author that he considers certain drug use to be abuse is fine. I'll make those changes. Guttlekraw 06:38, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As usual, the complete opposite of what you claim is true.  What part of "the book can be considered Dick's master statement on drug abuse" are you having problems understanding?  Your edit history is quite clear in this matter, and you are not editing in good faith.  You don't have to make any "changes" because you already agree with the text as it is currently written.  Your campaign to change the words "drug abuse" to "recreational drug use" doesn't appear to be very successful, but please, continue to blame me for your own errors. --Viriditas  | Talk 08:04, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Use or abuse

message: Something bothers me about the way this is written... Should the drug/topic be mentioned once in full ("Substance D") and then in short there after ("SD"), or should the full name be constant throughout, or is a sprinkled mix (the way it is currently written) acceptable?--Htmlism 16:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed the same "oddness", if you will, and it bothers me as well. I don't recall any of the characters using the abbreviation "SD", and it seems, to me at least, that using it here is only a visible lack of dedication to the author's work. It should be either "Substance D" or the shortened "Death", or both, but certainly not "SD". -ExNoctem 23:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is at least one place in the book where it's stated that the police group assigned to track down the drug is called the S.D. Agency, but I think that's possibly the only place using the SD abbreviation. (Note: I callously indented ExNoctem's note above, to separate it clearly from Htmlism.) Idontcareanymore (talk) 22:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In The Man in the High Castle PKD used SD to refer to German intelligence, maybe he didn't want to cross-over the term to cause any confusion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.234.85.81 (talk) 14:19, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Substance D or SD 

message: One section reads, "Another turning point in this timeframe for Dick, the alleged break-in to his home and papers, is detailed extensively elsewhere."  Can you add a link to 'elsewhere'?  A reader might well want to follow this up. ike9898 21:23, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I'm not exactly certain, but it looks like it should link to Exegesis, which I think was the original source material for that claim, although I could be wrong as I recall reading about it in one of the later books in the VALIS trilogy. —Viriditas | Talk 21:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've linked it to Philip_K._Dick#Psychology, but that whole section reads like someone's thesis/paper/book. "Curious readers can gain considerable insight into the culture by reviewing the extended conversation on "microdots" in this book"??? Google search turned up no obvious copyright infringements, though. The entire section probably needs to be excised/rewritten... I notice it was largely rewritten by an anonymous user in November 2005, with no explanation for the "in this book"/"detailed extensively elsewhere" wording. -- nae'blis (talk) 23:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about section "Autobiographical Nature" 

message: The section entitled 'Themes' needs referencing.  It reads like someone's essay, and if a correct reference isn't provided, the entire section must be removed until a suitably referenced replacement is found. See WP:V and WP:NOR. Proto||type 09:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just saw this section.  I'll take a look asap. —Viriditas | Talk 08:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Themes section 

message: The blue flower phsycoactive used in the novel sounds similar to the blue flower physcoactive drug in Batman Begins, could be related?
:
-M9	Talk 14:33, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: I've removed the reference to the New Testament being directly inspired by Plato, I am not a biblical scholar but I would be surprised if that connection is generally accepted.  I note that such a conneciton is not mentioned in the wiki entry on 1 Corinthians 13.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iiago (talk • contribs).
:I also find this connection implausible. More importantly, the article doesn't need to mention the Phaedo; the novel's title is a direct and obvious allusion to 1 Cor 13, and speculation about the biblical passage's antecedents is not needed in this article, unless it is somehow important for interpreting Scanner. --Akhilleus (talk) 16:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The intersection between Plato's ideas and Christian mysticism are integral to PKD's 2-3-74 experience and subsequent musings.  The original author of the text in question failed to add a source, and I have added a citation request. —Viriditas | Talk 19:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to wiki Neo-platonism was influential on the early christian church from Augustine onwards, but there is no mention of any influence of that school of thought on Paul himself.  If PKD believed there to have been a connection between Plato and Paul then that should be made clear, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that a connection is generally recognised to exist.  If I recall the book quite explicitly references the biblical verse and not Plato, but I'll have to check the passage later. 203.202.163.209 03:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The original author has had time to respond.  I will remove the content from the article.  You're right, I should not have informally referred to this early influence on the Christians as Neoplatonism but as Middle Platonism.  According to Britannica, "The Platonism that the first Christian thinkers knew was of course Middle Platonism, not yet Neoplatonism. Its relatively straightforward theism and high moral tone suited their purposes excellently; and the influence of this older form of Platonism persisted through the 4th century and beyond, even after the works of Plotinus and Porphyry began to be read by Christians."  As for PKD, he was greatly influenced by Platonism, and he has said as much: "In college I was given Plato to read and thereupon became aware of the possible existence of a metaphysical realm beyond or above the sensory world. I came to understand that the human mind could conceive of a realm of which the empirical world was epiphenominal. Finally, I came to believe that in a certain sense the empirical world was not truly real, at least not as real as the archetypal realm beyond it. At this point I despaired of the veracity of sense-data. Hence in novel after novel that I write I question the reality of the world that the characters' percept-systems report." —Viriditas | Talk 02:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Indeed, one cannot discuss PKD without Gnosticism. "Radio Free Abelmuth" is simply about knowing that you are right and in some cases dying for it. The connection with standard Christianity is tenuous, ironic or metaphorical. Jesus is not talking to you from a spacecraft. 173.174.85.204 (talk) 19:45, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul and Plato 

message: I finally got to re-read the sections of the book that relate to the title, and have updated our explanation.  My explanation of the title comes from pages 169-171 of the 2006 book published by Gollancz, in particular:
"Through a mirror," Fred said.  A darkened mirror, he thought; a darkened scanner.  And St. Paul meant, by a mirror, not a glass mirror - they didn't have those then - but a reflection of himself when he looked at the polished bottom of a metal pan...seeing his own face reflected back up at him, reversed - pulled through infinity...I have seen myself backward. (page 169)
Bob/Fred then muses on page 170-171 that true understanding comes after "death" (either the drug or death itself) has been conquered.  This is a reference to 1 Chorinthians 15, which states:
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (verses 51-54, King James Version)
In the book, Fred hears a voice which states:
"Then shall it come to pass the saying that is written...death is swallowed up.  In victory...because...as soon as the writing appears backward, then you know which is illusion and which is not.  The confusion ends, and death, the last enemy, substance death, is swallowed not into the body but up - in victory.  Behold, I tell you the sacred secret now: we shall not all sleep in death."
The mystery, he thought, the explanation, he means.  Of a secret.  A sacred secret.  We shall not die.  The reflections shall leave and it will happen fast.  We shall all be changed, and by that he means reversed back, suddenly.  In the twinkling of an eye!
To summarise - Bob/Fred is saying that, as St Paul said (and I assume this is what the passages from 1 Chronithians mean), people are incapable of perceiving true reality until "death" has been conquered.  It is unclear whether he is referring to physical death or beating addiction to the drug.   I think it's meant to be ambiguous, because he doesn't portray anyone else in the book (druggie or not) as having a unbiased perception of reality.
Incidentally I suspect that the fact that the "transition" from Bob/Fred occurs in Chapter 13 is supposed to be a reference to 1 Chorinthians 13.  Speculation of course, though.  Iiago 13:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The meaning of the title 

message: Is it known if Dick was making a conscious allusion to Ingmar Bergman's 1961 film Through a Glass Darkly, which explores the subject of schizophrenia? --Samuel Wantman 07:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bergman film connection? 

message: Substance D should be merged here per WP:FICT, there's no real-world context or notability to warrant a separate article, and neither article is large. Unless anyone objects, I'll merge it here in a few days. Masaruemoto 04:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal for [[Substance D]] 

message: The page asked for a citation, and so I gave it, but it's my first time doing so, so I'm sure it's likely that I screwed it up. I just copied the existing citation and changed the page number. BBrucker2 (talk) 23:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work.  Take a look at WP:REFPUNC. Viriditas (talk) 02:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "mors ontologica" citation 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http ://www.philipkdickfans.com/frank/hour25.htm
** In Dhalgren on 2011-03-17 09:01:14, 404 Not Found
** In A Scanner Darkly on 2011-06-20 02:25:24, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 02:26, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: I edited the synopsis section, explaining what the scanners and scramble suit were and paragraphing it better. There's probably still some room for improvement. PKD, better than anyone, ever, was able to explain the confusion of not knowing who you are, even when you see yourself in a video, and project the horror of that to the reader. While it is rather trivial, I think the article might mention several hilarious madcap or slapstick episodes in the novel that have nothing to do with the ultimate plot but show how messed up the characters are, or at least quote the review that says, "This is a very funny book!" 173.174.85.204 (talk) 19:55, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synopis 

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thread_title:  External links modified