Talk:Estonian Apostolic Orthodox Church

message: Until one provides reference to a chronicle that mentions "Tharbatu" ca. 600 (and the expelled Christians too), I will remove every attempt at promoting patent fantasies and fringecruft. --Ghirla-трёп- 06:29, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here you go. From the first page of some Google searches: , , , . Too sleepy to look for more or better sources. However, remember that besides chronicles there are archaeological digs as well, far more accurate then chronicles. I have no idea about those expelled Christians, but Tartu was probably settled before onset of Christianity. DLX 19:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Take it easy, DLX. What one is dealing here is Ghirlandajo's own two amateurish fantasies (been there, seen that before in discussions about history of Tartu, Russians in Estonia, etc. First of his "patent fantasies" is that Dorpat/Tharbata is a German name, and hence one should only talk about Yuriev before the first written references to Dorpat/Tharbata in early 1200s. (Notably, Ghirlandajo does not appreciate the suggestion though that by same logic, e.g., one should only talk about Holmgard before the first written references to Novgorod). His second "patent fantasy" is that (no matter how many times chronicles refer to mutual military raids and to how Yuriev was captured, recaptured, burnt down, etc.) since there is no explicit written record of all Early East Slavs and Orthodox Christians having been expelled from Yuriev and southeastern Estonia at some point of time after 1030, it would mean that there was a continuous settlement of Orthodox Christians in and around Yuriev in southeastern Estonia all the way from 1030 through the 13th century up until today. Any attempts at indicating otherwise is bound to be labelled "original research" by Ghirlandajo. Cheers, --3 Löwi 20:11, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ghirlandajo may have fallen victim of Slavic ethnographic bias.  In the middle of the First Millennium, most East Slavs had no use for European-style fortifications, due to the prevalent tactics of military raids; thus, it would be surprising to find such a fortification in, say, Siberia.  However, this is not the case in Europe, nor most of the territories significantly influenced by the Roman Empire, such as Middle East.  Similarly, chronicles of various sorts are important for piecing together Russian early history, but in case of Estonia, most events happening before around 1000 CE are primarily studied through archaeological means. As for preferring Russian names over all alternatives on various pretexts, I guess only the 5-öre coins are the real currency. Digwuren 10:19, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The Encyclopedia Brittanica lists "Tarbatu" as being established in the 5th Century in the location of Tartu.. So that settles it as far as I am concerned. Martintg 23:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Britannica is not a primary source. Either you provide the written reference to Tharbata, dating from the 5th century, or the piece of nationalist propaganda should go. --Ghirla-трёп- 11:17, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WP policies do not REQUIRE primary sources. Secondary ot tretiary are preffered. Please see for yourself WP:RS . --Alexia Death 11:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know what WP policies recommend. But without knowing the primary source, we cannot assess whether a secondary source may be trusted at all. Britannica claims that Pushkin frequented Prague. I would not hold my breath for whatever nonsense compiled by them without proper critical examination. --Ghirla-трёп- 11:44, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Re-read Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary.2C_secondary.2C_and_tertiary_sources: "Wikipedia articles should rely on reliable published secondary sources." Encyclopedia Britannica can be regarded as a reliable secondary source. If you revert again this will be considered vandalism. Martintg 21:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: The acronym OCE appears in the section of WWII.  I would assume that it means Orthodox Church (something) Estonia, and perhaps is a leftover from a previous incarnation of this article, but this phrase is not explained in the article.  What exactly does it mean? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 22:02, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  OCE