Talk:Margarita Prentice

message: Will somebody please account for the removal of an informative section on a major political position of Prentice's? I will not restore it yet, as I'm of course open to a discussion of its relevance, but in the absence of a compelling reason for removal, I believe it should be restored soon. Thanks!Benzocane 19:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have restored the section as it is well sourced, but I've removed language that risks POV. I welcome further discussion, but please do not remove without posting on talk! Benzocane 23:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait a second, we now have an unsourced celebration of Prentice's payday lending regulation in lieu of a better (if not ideally sourced) description of the particulars? Why is The Stranger article unencyclopedic? And regardless, it seems the goal should be seeking out better sources, not removing the section in a manner that leaves the reader with unsubstantiated PR!Benzocane (talk) 00:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have checked the links and added two more. Sufferingfools needs to explain why The Stranger is an unacceptable source for this information, and, regardless, needs to account for an edit that changes this: "Prentice was also the first to sponsor legislation regulating the payday lending industry, writing the original bill in 1995 that allowed payday lenders to operate in Washington state" (sourced by The Stranger) to this: Prentice was also the first to sponsor legislation regulating the payday lending industry" (which is clearly misleading). Additionally, the bulk of this article is now unsourced pr information for Prentice. Regardless of one's political opinions, this is a clear violation of the encyclopedia's standards.Benzocane (talk) 00:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't see the current edits as replacements for what's being discussed here since I don't see them lasting very long in the main space. Sufferingfools brings up good points, and the Stranger should be determined as a WP:RS before it's used here to source content, and we should find additional reliable sources that specifically deal with Prentice and this subject. I don't really want to work on the content, but I'll look into additional sourcing and WP:RS issues. Flowanda | Talk 01:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we all agree sources need to be reliable. I continue to be confused, however, about Sufferingfools specific edits. We now have a floating but contentless "payday" section, a misplaced citation needed tag (as it applied to content that has now been moved, etc). What's clear is that the most well-sourced section of the entry is about payday lending relative to the sections Cyrusc has correctly tagged as in need of citation. I think we can all work together to improve the entry.Benzocane (talk) 01:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: In an effort to correct the floating "payday" section, I've moved it under Financial Institutions experience - which is where this legislation arose.  I've also added citations to the statute to accurately describe the payday loan price and legislation that has been less than accuratly described by the Stranger (i.e. the law does not state the allowable fees as APR's) and others.  The political contributions are simply undocumented.  The citation is to the home page of the PDC - not a specific contributor or amount and the news article cited does not say that Prentice has accepted "thousands of dollars." I'm happy to find source references for all of the legislation that this person has supported. --Sufferingfools (talk) 01:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for helping provide citations. Please consult this as an example of documenting her receipt of funds. It does not have a dollar amount (although it would be weird, indeed, if it were less than "thousands," given how campaign contributions work! http://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2005/02/21/story4.html?jst=s_cn_hl)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Benzocane (talk • contribs) 02:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't object to cutting the Hummer part, as it seems more like journalistic color than political substance. I do think The Stranger as a visible Seattle area publication can be cited legitimately in general and the particular citation is what needs to be evaluated in particular.Benzocane (talk) 17:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note I have changed the first line of the payday lending article to reflect the fact that the citation in question says Prentice sponsored legislation to allow the payday loans in Washington state, not the first legislation to "regulate" them. The quote is: "She has received thousands of dollars in contributions from MoneyTree and other payday lenders, adding fuel to the fire of opponents who criticize her bulldoggish resistance to legislation that would cap payday-loan interest rates at 36 percent. Prentice, who now chairs the powerful Ways and Means Committee, wrote the original bill allowing the lenders to operate in the state in 1995. She declined repeated requests to answer questions for this article."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Benzocane (talk • contribs) 18:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I have no objection, of course, to listing the exact quantity of contribution, but the link is insufficient--it just links to a public database with no information on how to retrieve the particular information. Is there a way to link to the specific page? Also, stating the facts of the contribution is of course fine; the language of "mere," etc., is POV. I have removed the change pending a better source and the excising of POV language, but, again, I am not objecting to the inclusion of those facts. Thanks.Benzocane (talk) 23:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Re: The Stranger: if the information regarding her sponsorship of the initial legislation is accurate, I can see no reason to eliminate it. If the quoted text can be shown to be a "personal rant," of course it should be deleted. But it's not a personal rant to say she sponsored the first legislation allowing payday activity; it's either true or false.Benzocane (talk) 23:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: OK, now I see how the link works. I'd say just state the facts in neutral language. BTW, I'm not sure what's gained by the specifics about rollovers, etc. That is, there is no parallel level of specificity in the entry. Thanks for explaining the link--I won't contest it now; I was just confused about its function earlier.Benzocane (talk) 05:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the question is what is the level of appropriate specificity for a subsection on such an entry. It seems to me our priority should be recording the terms of the public debate, not performing an analysis with the goal of reconfiguring those terms. I think the fact of the APR cap is the relevant figure and pushing beyond that risks OR and, if the analysis serves a particular political purpose, POV. To be clear: I'm neither doubting your intentions nor your economic knowledge, but those questions are secondary to the   community standards regarding the composition and regulation of entries.Benzocane (talk) 21:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

text: My attention was drawn to this article because it reads more like a Prentice PR entry than an objective article about a politician.  I will request that other editors review both the general content of the entry and the payday loan section specifically. I don't question your motivations, but question their effect: we now have a payday loan breakdown that reads like an ad from a payday firm, not a record of a public debate about the industry. More soon! Benzocane (talk) 04:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

text: While we discuss the most appropriate form for the payday information, I humbly request caution in the formatting and rewriting of this article. It is now one of the most poorly formatted political entries in the encyclopedia (I hope this is only temporary, but it would be much more appropriate to work via sandbox to prevent damaging the entry while working on a rewrite). As of right now, there are incorrect citations, poorly formatted and unconventional subsections, etc.; I recognize that you are "new to this community"--it is important to familiarize yourself with the formal and not just contentual conventions of the encyclopedia before transforming an entry.Benzocane (talk) 07:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Payday Lending

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I have just modified 9 external links on Margarita Prentice. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070418044907/http://www1.leg.wa.gov/senate/prentice to http://www.leg.wa.gov/senate/prentice/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080513085621/http://search.leg.wa.gov/advanced/3.0/main.asp to http://search.leg.wa.gov/advanced/3.0/main.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080513085621/http://search.leg.wa.gov/advanced/3.0/main.asp to http://search.leg.wa.gov/advanced/3.0/main.asp
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071225222016/http://www.leg.wa.gov/Senate/prentice/SponsoredBills.htm to http://www.leg.wa.gov/Senate/prentice/SponsoredBills.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080513085621/http://search.leg.wa.gov/advanced/3.0/main.asp to http://search.leg.wa.gov/advanced/3.0/main.asp
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070418044907/http://www1.leg.wa.gov/senate/prentice to http://www.leg.wa.gov/senate/prentice/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070312231037/http://www.wsna.org/hof/inductee.asp?id=26 to http://www.wsna.org/hof/inductee.asp?id=26
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thread_title:  External links modified