Talk:Quebec French

message: I don't understand clearly this sentence:
 Such early yet difficult success was followed by a socio-cultural retreat, if not repression, that would later help preserve French in Canada.
What do "socio-cultural retreat" mean? Is this talking about the bill 101? If yes I can't believe someone think we retreated from the american or canadian culture so easily. Before about 1890, the french canadians were forming the majority in all Canada. Before that we were even more, more than 95% in 1760. How can we "retreat", I don't understand.207.253.108.186 00:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: French has a third phonemic "e" vowel, always, usually in words with orthographic <aî> or <ê>. It is also the rendering of all /e/ and /E/ before a final [r]. Minimal pairs include 'bête'("beast")/'bette'("beet") and 'maître'(master)/'mettre'(to put). I have had trouble putting a finger on it and used X-Sampa /E\/ (old IPA E), or and approximated /E_q/ to represent this vowel. --Circeus 19:15, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Quebec French has, I mentionned it in the small paragraph I wrote about its phonology as /E:/ as opposite to /E/. I never heard [E_q] but I suppose that might very well exist. The most important point anyway is France French doesn't recognise this pair. --Valmi 05:03, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: ¿What is /E\/ by the way? --Valmi 05:05, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  /E\/ is the X-Sampa symbol I use to represent the deprecated IPA E (Small capital e), which represented a lax /E/. My point was that there is a difference in quality (very audible to me) in addition to the difference in quantity. Neither distinction is made in Europe, AFAIK. --Circeus 16:54, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad we agree on the fact that it doesn't exist (anymore) in Europe. I couldn't really hear the quality difference, or then I would have guessed perhaps that it's (xsampa) [E_+], but I just found a book where the phoneme itself is described as (xsampa) /3/ (open-mid central). {sample} What do you think? I think it sounds weird. It would be quite important to agree on a notation for this phoneme though, since we agree it is a phoneme in Quebec French. By the way, huge shame on the Quebecer Robert for refusing to note it. --Valmi 18:07, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  The third ê 

message: This entry should be deleted. I hear/have heard "cossin" and "la bus"(Decried all across the province) regularly in both Quebec and Montréal. "Patente" is a bit more common for "Gizmo", though. AFAIK, "cossin" means "a small undetermined thing, usually in numbers". --Circeus 19:24, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I spent my teenage years in Trois-Rivieres and I can tell you that, first, Montrealers underline a difference and second, that cossin is well known as a Mauricien expression. Now, it may have crossed to other places throughout the territory, like Boston English expressions in the rest of the american territory or British English expressions in the US and Australia, for example. But I believe it does not remove the legitimacy of the mention. I have also been met with surprise from Montrealers when I spoke of the la bus expression (I'll note that I do not use it) ;) and, among Trifluvians, is is renown as a local term. Salutations. --Liberlogos 05:31, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maurician lect?? 

message: It is likely that I made mistakes in the big lot of stuff I wrote about Quebec phonetics today, please feel very very free to have a close look. Also, I worked with HTML entities, so some API may be totally wrong. --Valmi 22:18, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I honestly wouldn't be able to know without comparing what you wrote with a reference manual (which I don't have). I trust you on these things. I will focus on history for now since I already started. -- Mathieugp 22:06, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Phonology & phonetics

message: Seems good to me, however something other than "auto" will have to be used as an example as both "auto" and "automobile" are in fact feminine words... :-) Maybe "une avion" instead? That's the most common 5-year old type mistake most francophones do when they grow up. I know I did. ;-) 
-- Mathieugp 12:17, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yuk! I would say I was probably very tired when I wrote this little bit. Very tired. :-) --Valmi 17:26, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it possible that naming the bus routes by their feminine numbers be influenced through analogy by the same habits of naming highways? La 20, la 40 are only a short way to l'autobus 7 -> la 7.--Circeus 12:22, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: morphologic gender

message: I think it is relevant to mention that whenever the A/a, O/o and 3/E peirs occur they are opposed in both lenght and quality.--Circeus 01:02, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: EG? --Valmi ✒ 02:57, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  /pat/ & /pA:t/ (NOT /pAt/), /cOt/ & /co:t/ (NOT /cot/), /mEtr/ & /m3:tr/ (NOT /m3tr/). While short /A/ and /o/ do occur, they never do in contrasting position with /a/ and /O/ AFAIK and by such are not phonemes.--Circeus 13:48, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I see what you mean. I think the [A:] isn't specific to QF, but the difference in quantity of /o/ could be worth mentionning. At that, you could add a note about /ø/ and diphtongs. As of /3/, I don't think there is any kind of convention, so feel free to write /3:/ if you fancy since all allophones are long anyway. --Valmi ✒ 20:19, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lenght opposition 

message: :Answering Circeus: Is it possible that naming the bus routes by their feminine numbers be influenced through analogy by the same habits of naming highways? La 20, la 40 are only a short way to l'autobus 7 -> la 7.
I doubt your hypothesis, but I must honestly admit I shouldn't know how to prove it wrong. If only commuter train lines were numbered, we'd know if le train 4 is le 4 or la 4. I think it would be le 4 though. ;-)
It seems to me that those metonymies follow quite a logical serie anyway: le numéro 42 -> le 42, la route 132 -> la 132, l'autobus 7... [?]
I would also like to provide a more formal counter-example from France, but the only one I can think of is in Queneau's Exercices de styles, which I cannot find now because I'm repainting and my flat is a real chantier de construction, and I'm not even sure whether it's l'autobus, l'omnibus or just le bus S.
--Valmi ✒ 00:58, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Re: bus lines and highway numbers

message: Could someone please clarify that Quebecois lacks most "linking"?  Do they mean liason?  So does this mean that beaux-arts has a glottal stop in the middle instead of a voiced sibilant?  Or what?   Please be specific and use examples, I'm confused.
:: Ok it's clearer now but still not entirely clear.   When one "avoids linking", one has a vowel clash.  Is the clash resolved by blending the vowels, or by inserting a glottal stop?  Someone who knows please answer...
::Steverapaport 15:07, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: or nothing. All solutions are possible AFAIK. That phenomenon is probably one of the most complex in French. I'll have to check my books when I get home. --Circeus 17:15, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: By inserting a glottal stop, I'd say... See fr:Liaison for a correct definition of the linking, and for the mandatory vs. optionnal cases of linking. In QF, optionnal cases are almost never observed. --Valmi ✒ 19:36, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linking? 

message: This talk page is extremely long. Maybe parts of it should be archived or deleted? --Circeus 22:00, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Moved old or irrelevant discussions to Talk:Quebec French(archives), and appropriate ones to Talk:History of Quebec French or Talk:Quebec French lexicon. ALso deleted a few bits. --Circeus 15:15, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  The above is now at Talk:Quebec French/Archive 1. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 08:59, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archiving 

message: I completed the IPA-ification of the article. --Circeus 15:20, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA completed 

message: I'd like to have opinions on the possible moving of the Phonology article to a separate one, much like Lexicon. Merging the subsections in Regional variations should also be considered IMHO, until we have enough materials to actually separate them. --Circeus 19:07, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganization and separation 

message: It has been proposed that Languages of Oïl be renamed and moved to Langues d'Oïl. Comments and votes on Talk:Languages of Oïl, please, if you're interested. Man vyi 09:23, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oïl languages 

message: First, I'm no linguist, and not an excellent english speaker (and writer). I'm a French-Canadian from montreal, and I worked for a long time on Québec's lower-north shore. The accent there is sometimes incredibly hard to understand, being a mix of Acadian (Shiac), Quebec and Iles-de-la-Madelaine (Madelinot) french. One caracteristic of the language, is they omit the letter "r" in all their words. Someone told me it's because when the english deported the Acadians, some of them moved to Iles-de-la-Madelaine, and rejected the King (le Roi)and the queen (la Reine)of France that abandonned them. To be sure that no one ever spoke of the Roi (and Reine)again, they deliberatly stopped using the letter R. Thats why it's easy to spot a Madelinot on mainland Quebec. He says: Déba'que instead of Débarque, Pou'quoi instead of Pourquoi and so on. On some occasions, they use some kind of hard H, instead of R, like in h'gahde instead of Regarde. Someone can confirm or infirm that story?
:The "r" drop, i.e. lack of rhoticity, is due to Acadian French. Most varieties of French in Canada fall into one of the two categories: Quebec or Acadian. Of course, there are some other slight differences, yet they should not necessary be considered justification for the "dialect" title. CJ Withers 02:52, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iles-de-la-Madelaine french 

message: Hey folks! I'm re-writing bits and pieces of the Quebec French article, both in English and in French. You'll notice that some information has been removed; I've transferred the stuff into my Sandbox on Quebec French. You see, I'm trying to retain the same content all the while re-organizing, streamlining and enhancing. So, there's no need to worry about the old data. If you want to help out, PLEASE DO! CJ Withers 02:52, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Salut les gars, les filles! 

message: You said that the word "courriel" is widely used in France. That's not the case. Almost everybody in France use the word "mail" ou "mel" for "E mail". "Mel" is the official word (Académie française) in use in France, but many people write it "mail". "courriel" is mention in the french dictionary as "used in Québec". Excuse my poor English... Clio64B 20:27, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You who? The preceding message is in the 2nd person, though it's about a subject of general interest, i.e. the term "courriel". Could you specify the name of the contributor whose statement or words you're referring to. Personally, I can't imagine anyone saying such a thing because it's common knowledge that "mail", "mel" and even "mél" are used in most French-speaking countries and regions other than Canada and Québec. Oh, and don't worry about your English! ;-) --CJ Withers 21:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "courriel" 

message: Need something on Anglophone emigration from modern Quebec affecting language balance.
:Could you sign your comment please? :-)
:This article is about the regional variety of French called Quebec French, not about language demographics for French and English in Québec. There are two articles, French in Canada and Language demographics of Quebec that are appropriate places for the info you mention. CJ Withers 04:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anglophone Emigration 

message: In PRONOUNS - "this is one of the very few possible influences of English on Quebec French aside from vocabulary".
A section summarizing these non-lexical influences would be useful.
Wondering: are the slack [ɪ], [ʏ], [ʊ] from some regional dialect of France, and not English?
:Could you sign your comment, please? :-)
:The lax, not "slack" (connotation!!), vowels are phonologically conditioned and do not come from English. This lax/tense pairing is also seen in German and Swedish. There is a detailed discription of the phenomenon in Denis Dumas' book Nos façons de parler : les prononciations en français québécois, which should already be cited at the bottom of the main article, but isn't. Anyway, the main article for Quebec French is way too long as it is. Should it be truly needed, an explanation of the lax/tense phenomenon would go in the Quebec French pronunciation article, which, by the way, needs a major overhaul. CJ Withers 04:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  English Influence? 

message: * Particle "-tu" used to ask "yes/no" questions or to form tag questions. In this last use, "-tu" functions in the same way as "n'est-ce pas":
    C'est-tu prêt? (Est-ce prêt? / C'est prêt? / Est-ce que c'est prêt?) Is it ready?
is it a '-tu' or is it a 'y' with a liaison like in some french dialects. In 'haute bretagne' there are a lot of people who use 'C'est-y prêt ?'  pronounced 'ces ti prêt'. Chris CII 14:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: BOTH these come from "Est-il prêt?" or "Y-a-t-il ..." where the -t-il got mistaken for -tu  (or est-il for est-y). Then the mistake went further where -tu is now used where there would be no -t-il in literary French. As simple as that. 24.203.68.10 (talk) 05:33, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

text: I think it probably has the same origin, indeed; it would seem plausible anyway. But it is usually spelled (and pronounced, for that matter) as "tu" in modern Quebec French Saintamh 16:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is definitely pronounced [tsy], at least in all my experience. It is used to ask yes/no questions, and is always placed directly after the verb. It is used only in matrix clauses. From what I have read (in linguistics classes at McGill, in Montréal), it used to be pronounced [tsi], and has gradually shifted to its current pronunciation. It is a grammaticalization of the inserted pronoun "il" that is inserted into interrogative sentences. 
The evolution would have gone something like:
"Louis est-il beau?" (note inserted pronoun)
--> "Louis est-ti beau?" (the /l/ is deleted, and it is treated as an affix with no relation to the pronoun))
--> "Louis est-tu beau?" (pronunciation shifts to rounded vowel)
Dr-ring-ding 22:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The -y sound is, by my experience (which I don't have much of, don't take my word for it) used more often in rural speak, which tends to sound slightly more like Acadian French. It's not used much, and I've mostly seen it used by humourists spoofing people living in rural areas, but I've occasionally heard it used in plain speech too. Ryke Masters 22:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Little question about grammar 

message: This article refers to a dialect of French that is called "Canadian French" elsewhere in Canada and in most areas of Quebec. Many authoritative sources refer to it as Canadian French. Choosing Quebec French over Canadian French (or vice versa) is POV. Both Canadian French and Quebec French should point to a common disambiguation page explaining the controversy. It would also be consistent with naming convention of Canadian French to French language in Canada. Also, this is mostly an article on linguistics, and doesn't dicsuss the political and demographic aspects of the language.  --Soulscanner 20:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Explanation for why the equally common name "Canadian French" is used is subjective and POV. Many learned people use Canadian French to describe this dialect, as the references above clearly show. --Soulscanner 02:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaming article '''French Language in Quebec (lingusitics) '''/ Moving Quebec and Canadian French to disambiguation page 

message: Does anybody have any objections to removing the neutrality tag? And as for the unsourced stuff, well, probably somebody should say what they mean. A lot of what's here is sourceable but nobody's bothered. A lot of the unsourced stuff seems correct. I have my doubts about the "interintelligibility" section, though. Joeldl 14:15, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Be my guest. Soulscanner put them up, I guess because he objects to the article being called "Quebec French" instead of "Canadian French". I don't really see how that makes it unsourced or POV.--Boffob 15:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality and unsourced tags

message: It's not clear to me that this edit  is an improvement of the explanation of the terms "Canadian French" and "Quebec French". Also, "Canadian French" does not refer only to that which is common to Quebec and Acadian French. This would be analogous to saying that "running shoes" is not Canadian English because people in the Maritimes say "sneakers". Rather, "Canadian French" groups Acadian French and Quebec French without regard to what is common to the two and what distinguishes them.It also makes sense to mention the existence of common features distinguishing Quebec and Acadian French from European French, for if these features did not distinguish them there would be no justification for grouping them under the names "Canadian French" or "North American French" on linguistic grounds.While "Canadian French" and "Quebec French" may not be perfectly synonymous, no mention is now made of the fact that the term "Canadian French" is quite common [where "Quebec French" would be equally acceptable Joeldl 03:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Latest edit by CJ Withers

message: "European pronunciation is not at all difficult for Canadians to understand; only differences in vocabulary present any problems.
Television programmes and films from Quebec often must be subtitled for international audiences, which some Quebecers perceive as offensive, although they themselves sometimes can hardly understand European French pronunciation and slang."
These sentences clearly don't go together. Lfh 11:41, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictory 

message: Hi;
Today is my first day on Wikipedia. So, I hope I am posting this correctly. It isn't too easy to figure out this environment.
After reading the Wikipedia:External Links - I tried to post a link to a web site that I created that helps people learn French with the accent of Quebec (a software program called KitQC2).
The link has disappeared. So, I went back and re-read the short little easy-to-read whole thing again. I caught this part this time : It seems that the link does not qualify because I created the web site?
I figured that the site could be useful as an external link because it provides a free software resource used by thousands of people to help them learn Quebec French. The English language part of the web site provides a nice, compact list of articles and references. Just a lot of useful stuff that can help English speaking people moving to Quebec avoid months of aggravation.
Since I get visitors (people, not bots) from about 30 different countries per week now, I thought I'd mention it on Wikipedia.
Now, the hard part - I've done the 'Show preview' and I'm going to press 'Save page'. But I'm not certain yet about how to see if there is any answer to this comment or where it will end up exactly.
Thanks for your patience. No harm intended.
Qcfrenchcda (talk) 04:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First, welcome to Wikipedia. Unfortunately, your link appears to be a violation of the conflict of interest guidelines and will set off many people's spam senses, particularly because you posted the same link in many articles. Under the external links guidelines  the best you can do is discuss whether it is worthy to be linked on this article. Promoting your software, even if it is free, is advertising for a particular product, which in general goes against Wikipedia's mission and policies. As such, it has little chance of being accepted. But, if your product or company happened to be notable (you need a reliable, secondary reference), it could have its own Wiki article (with the external link included), the only problem being that you still couldn't be the one to write it, as it would remain a conflict of interest.--Boffob (talk) 05:20, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  KitQC2 question from a brand new Wiki user 

message: Hi folks;
Thanks for the quick reply Boffob! I really like this Wiki page. However, this Wiki page is text, not sound.
If you know anything about Quebec, then you know that immigrants to Quebec are a bit surprised by Quebec French when they get here.
First the basics : KitQC2 is under the GNU GPL and the source code is included in the download. So, no problem there, I hope.
KitQC2 was introduced a couple of years ago in Quebec. It was on a very credible web site (CDEACF) which has the mandate of helping only French speaking people. So, the product became well-known in the French speaking world. If you look at my clicks map it is almost a map of the entire French speaking world. And in Canada, 95% of the clicks come from Quebec. Due to their mandate, the CDEACF (very nice people!) couldn't even post the English or Spanish translations of the thousands of vocabulary words.
In KitQC2, it is very easy to switch the accent to any area in the world. KitQC2 was also designed to run on very old computers. So, even the poor French countries really like it.
Now, if you know Quebec today then you know the following:
1) The Federal government gives about 550 million dollars a year to Quebec to help immigrants - but a large part of this money is not spent on that (seen in debates of Quebec Assemblee Nationale)
2) language centers for immigrants to Quebec are closing
3) even French people from France have trouble with Quebec French - Google on 'Quebec French Wall Street Journal' for a taste of the problem
4) Quebec French is a very different accent
5) many immigrants to Quebec leave for other areas of Canada - because the language is so hard to learn.
Why is the language so hard to learn? Because there were no resources for learning French with the accent of Quebec. Resources to help get an ear for the accent.
So, I finally got fed up and made a free resource that people could use. The fact that it is so popular in Quebec is just helping with damage control.
My goal was to help people *before* they come to Quebec.
KitQC2 has an interface that can be switched between English and French, the documentation is in English and French, the words have been translated into English and now KitQC2 has its own web site. But very few English speaking Canadians know about the software.
This Wiki page is great. But English speaking people in Quebec or who are moving to Quebec need more than just text. They need sound.
At least in the French speaking world, KitQC2 would probably qualify as a "notable product"?
Imagine this : you are thinking of moving to Quebec. You find this Wiki page. You read all kinds of interesting things. And then, tada, you find the only free software program that can help you learn French with the accent of Quebec. I think that's a good thing.
Wikipedia is a place where people start looking for information. The sooner they get started on their Quebec French, the better. That's why I think that a link to KitQC2 belongs on the Wiki pages : Quebec French, Quebec, Joual, and Quebec French Lexicon.
And a funny note : I found one of the key problems that English speaking people have when they move to Quebec. As far as I know, I am the only person who has spotted it. And I've had it confirmed by many people over the years (including business people). As weird as it sounds : Don't grunt in Quebec (I'm not kidding!). If you want to find out why, please feel free to read the English language documentation to KitQC2. It's a little pdf file on the web site. You may even wish to include this tip on this Wiki page!
So, I'll leave it at that. If you want more information feel free to contact me on the KitQC2 web site 'Contact Us'.
Thanks again for your patience and thanks for a great Wiki page!
Qcfrenchcda (talk) 13:22, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thanks Boffob - KitQC2 notes and wind-up 

message: I have revised and sourced the section. Messages of concern may be left here. Thanks. Eklir (talk) 01:47, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Quebec French#Regional varieties of Quebec French and their classification|Dialects of Quebec French and their classification]]

message: The ISO 639 tags in the infobox (none for ISO 639-1, the tag for French for 639-2 and 639-3) are misleading. This is not a language but a sublanguage (regional variant), so per definition it shouldn't have any ISO 639 tag. The infobox should contain the IETF tag - is fr-CA-QC correct? I've also seen fr-qc but that doesn't look right. Or does it have a cryptic region number like es-419 for Latino Spanish?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.44.44 (talk) 14:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  bare ISO tags don't apply 

message: What does etendue mean in the following sentence from the article: "It is spoken all over the southern part of St. Lawrence valley ... as well as the Western etendue going from Gatineau to as far as Rouyn-Noranda."
Is this a word that is regularly used in English in specialized discussions like this, or did someone inadvertently write a French word that should be replaced by an English one? Indefatigable (talk) 22:34, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etendue 

message: I think the lexis contains bad examples. It is written as if Arrêt was only used in Quebec and France always uses Stop. This is only true in one particular case : stop sign at an intersection. Tabarnak, sti, and câlice are bad examples again, because is gives the impression that tabernacle, hostie and calice aren't valid words in Quebec French. --zorxd (talk) 16:02, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the section on lexis could be improved considerably. There is a lack of informal words in "Lexical innovations", which should include all kinds of words created since 1760 (or before), not just technical terms for modern concepts.82.124.231.13 (talk) 14:40, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lexis 

message: Is it my wild imagination or is the References section of this article smack dab in the middle of the text? Would it be ok if I moved it down, or is it there for some particular reason?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djkernen (talk • contribs) 20:59, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Those references belong to the section Regional varieties and their classification; that's why they're up in the middle. Eklir (talk) 23:59, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in the Middle? 

message: If one wanted to leave out the "si" in European French, would it be correct to say "En ayant su, j'aurais"?--95.116.231.215 (talk) 20:07, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avoir su, j'aurais... (Si j'avais su, j'aurais...) 

message: In Gaspésie, the word fête is really pronounced [fɛːt] ? But this Gaspésien pronounces [fnaɪ̯tʁ] for the word fenêtre. 198.105.114.217 (talk) 20:33, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaspésie dialect 

message: The article states that:
Mutual intelligibility of Quebec French with Metropolitan French is a matter of heated debates among linguists. If a comparison can be made, the differences between both dialects are probably larger than those between standard American and standard British English, but less than the differences between Brazilian Portuguese and that of Portugal.
That comment is subjective (POV) and not supported by any reference or meaningful statistical study. I don't think it belongs in an encyclopedia. 161.24.19.112 (talk) 18:07, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparisons with other languages are not appropriate 

message: Both are definitely mutually intelligible.
The argument stating that some forms of colloquial Québec French (e.g. working class Joual) are not easily understandable by a metropolitan is a bad one.
Many examples can be found within one language where native speakers would have trouble understanding a certain social group. E.g. scousers in England, good luck to an Oxbridge English speaker. Or certain forms of southern US accents.
Of course even within France, if someone from Lille starts speaking really fast using local words - which vary in every language, of course a speaker from Marseille will have trouble understanding him. Would be the same between an american and e.g. a cockney - it doesn't change the fact that it's still the same language!  So basically, as a metropolitan French speaker I understand 99.9% of what people say around me immediately - be it in shops, on the TV, on the street, etc. The remaining 0.1% usually makes me smile since they can be somewhat archaic words which are funny to hear sometimes. Not unlike British and US english. 
Likewise, a speaker from Québec will also understand pretty much everything in France and if he speaks normally - as in not fast Joual, but rather the language that is spoken on the street, in the shops and on TV in Québec, everyone will of course understand him, but we do of course recognise the accent which sould cute in French because it's the French with the accent we used to speak until not long ago - it has a countryside connotation. The belgians and Swiss can still have a bit of this in some remote places, as do we, indeed in Saintonge / Poitou (I lived in La Rochelle and when going deep in the countryside you can hear accents that remind you of Québec French). The other places where local dialects can remind of the old way of speaking include Saint Barthélémy, Louisiana, Guadeloupe. Even in creole this accent still somhow exists - especially the "h" after a "t" for e.g. "partir"
In any case, to try and say that metropolitan French and Québec French results of not only typical ignorance but also of denial of the French language in particular by certain Anglos, trying to divide us to better impose English on the planet. With fake facts, e.g. also claiming that somehow German is closer to French than English to French, which reflects a total ignorance and overlooks the fact that probably 40-50% of words in English come from French/Latin and are of course related, for the simple reason that the successive invasions - of French speakers (Normans, Plantagenets) etc between 1066 and the 100 years resulted into a massive pouring of French into English. E.g. before being translated into English - which none of the kings/noblemen/knights could speak until the 1400's, the Magna Carta was first translated into French from Latin.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.20.243 (talk) 13:52, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mutual intelligibility 

message: As a native French speaker who has also heavily been exposed to Quebec French, I can clearly state that approximating differences between European and Canadian French to those between European and Brazilian Portuguese is a gross overstatement. Brazilian Portuguese, uses different personal pronouns for the second person (tu vs voce) for colloquial varieties, a phenomenon that does not exist between European and Canadian French. The differences in vocabulary are also considerably higher (e.g. toilet/bathroom:  banheiro vs sala de banhos), which funny enough is also different between US and UK english. Or driving licence/driver's license (carteira de motorista vs carta de condução), again notice the differences in US/UK english even in spelling. None of this occurs between European and Canadian French: one single word for toilet (toilettes) and driving licence (permis de conduire). The differences in phonology are also much greater in Portuguese variations, Brazilian portuguese has lost a considerable amount of dipthongs while none of this has happened in either variation of French. The "old" pronunciation for certain words in -oi remains in colloquial speech in several regions of France (Poitou, Pays de Loire, Normandy and Nord-Pas de Calais) and is immediately understood by any speaker. Same goes for idioms such as "C'est-tu prêt?" - which is informal anyway: the direct equivalent is widely used in colloquial French as "C'est-ti prêt" or "C'est-y prêt" (http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/ti#fr-part). Since it is never written (neither in France or Quebec) and pronounced the same thus ti or tu are an approximation anyway.
In brief, the arguments used to distinguish them in this article and by "linguists" (read francophobe canadians/americans/brits) would amount to split even France French into several languages since there are of course regional variations (like in England or the US) whereas the reality is that Quebec French is as close to standard French as e.g. Swiss or Belgian French or even the French spoken in Lille or in Poitou to standard French. There are more variations in vocabulary between US and UK english as they are between Quebec and European French. So to treat it as a separate language is a gross overstatement, mutual intelligibility as stated above is total, and to base it on colloquial variants is totally inappropriate as e.g. someone from e.g. Birmingham, AL would have a hard time understanding someone from Birmingham, England if colloquial variants are used (totally different accent, pronunciation and vocabulary). "Y'all" does not exist in the UK for example and not even above the Mason-Dixon line (where they use "Youse"). Neither does "Ta-ra" (bye) in the US, nor "Ta" or "Cheers" to say thank you. Those who deny those differences and treat French and Quebec French as separate languages are biased, ignorant fools.
If anything, those differences are far lower than Brazilian Portuguese vs European Portuguese, lower than European Spanish vs American Spanish (again, a lot of diverging vocabulary and even pronouns (vos vs usted and vosotros vs ustedes), and probably as large as between US and UK english.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.188.71.12 (talk) 19:36, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparison to Brazilian and European portuguese: Rubbish!! 

message: Can someone delete this
"Mutual intelligibility of Quebec French with Metropolitan French is a matter of heated debates among linguists. If a comparison can be made, the differences between both dialects are probably larger than those between standard American and standard British English, but comparable to the differences between Brazilian Portuguese and that of Portugal (but with fewer differences in phonology and prosody compared to the Portuguese)."
It is absolutely not comparable to differences in Portuguese (see comment above, especially vocabulary, pronouns), contradictory (how can it be comparable if there are fewer differences), subjective, without reference and biased. It has no place in an encyclopaedia and was probably written by francophobes.
Can someone replace this paragraph with the following
"Canadian French is considered a variety of French by linguists and although there are minor variations in vocabulary and phonology, both variants are mutually intelligible"
With the following valid, PUBLISHED REFERENCE that states that both are mutually intelligible
"La langue de papier: spéculations linguistiques au Québec, 1957-1977", by Karim Larose - 2004 - ‎Bilingualism
Referring to Miron's works:
"À cet égard, elle demeure dans la famille du français, une variété du français" (To this extent, it remains part of the French family, a variety of French)
Larose agrees and states that he has "reussi a mettre d'accord litteraires et linguistes" (succeeded at getting the literati and linguists to agree" and agrees with his argument by saying "il y a intercompréhension entre la France et le Québec" (There is mutual intelligibility between France and Quebec)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.188.71.12 (talk) 20:22, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion and insert request 

message: The sentence "The number of such TV shows from France shown on Quebec television is about the same as the number of British TV shows on American television: they are seldom broadcast except on obscure cable channels." lacks references. 
As a matter of fact there are two main french channels from France broadcast in Canada: TV5 and France2 24. Obviously all US programmes are translated (without accent), e.g. X-files "au frontieres du reel" etc - same as in France, so both the French and French Canadians are exposed to similar programmes overall (US series amounting for a significant part of broadcasts in both cases). Finally, many series from France are shown in Quebec (e.g. Tintin, les gens de mogador etc)
Conversely, there are numerous series from Quebec that have made it to France, e.g. Tete a Claque, L'ete Indien. Finally, TV5 also broadcasts programmes from Quebec in France.
Obviously, TV programmes from famous comedians are shown in both countries (e.g. Anthony Kavanagh, Gad Elmaleh). Same goes for singers. There are much more cultural exchanges than the above-mentioned statement lets on.
A fair statement, with references, would read
"There are two TV channels from France broadcast in Quebec: TV5 and France 24, both containing TV programmes from France. Certain French series are shown on all province-wide channels, such as Tintin, Les Gens de Mogador. Conversely, TV5 also broadcasts TV programmes from Quebec in France. Certain TV shows from Quebec are also broadcast in France (Tete a Claque, L'Ete indien")
References:
http://www.allocine.fr/series/meilleures/pays-5018/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV5_Qu%C3%A9bec_Canada
http://tv5.ca/
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_24  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.188.71.12 (talk) 20:55, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on mutual intelligibility 

message: Thanks, 147.188.71.12, for your comments. Though they're interesting, by Wikipedia rules, personal judgements count as original research and thus are not considered solid sources for Wikipedia articles. Then again, the current section on Mutual intelligibility has no sources at all -- which is not a good situation.
The way to improve Wikipedia is to use reliable sources -- and of course cite them. There is surely a rich literature (in both French and English) on Quebec French. Do your research, summarize what you find, and cite it. --Macrakis (talk) 04:21, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Mutual intelligibility

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I didn't through the page history to see who's been tending to this article, but thanks for your work all the same. Even a few hints of systemic functional linguistics there, if I'm not mistaken! Tony (talk)  10:18, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nice article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Could someone clarify, and possibly correct, the italicized notes in the Phonology section that begin with "Systematic" or "Unsystematic"? Especially under § Vowels, it has: "Systematic, i.e. in all formal speech", "Systematic, i.e. in all informal speech", and "Unsystematic, i.e. in all informal speech (Joual)". I don't think the person who wrote this understood what "i.e." means. Nardog (talk) 08:42, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Systematic/unsystematic? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* New-Map-Francophone World.PNG
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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: The section about mutual intelligibility was hijacked over a year ago by 201.17.103.84 who has also completely distorted the references, effectively negating them: the refs actually cite Quebec and Metropolitan French being at least as close as US and UK english), while the user has changed it to the opposite. This - anonymous - user has previously posted xenophobic content e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:2005_French_riots&diff=prev&oldid=28044099. 
The original references, still there, do not support these modifications. 
He also hints that he has introduced his own point of view "I am Quebecois and I can tell you that we understand absolutely everything of Metropolitan French but the same cannot be said about European Francophones understanding us" (22:35, 24 April 2019) thus breaking the neutrality principles of Wikipedia. I suggest reverting back to the previous version of this section (15:01, 13 April 2019‎)
(Pcauchy (talk) 14:01, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, another reference shows both varieties 93% intelligible  Pcauchy (talk) 14:46, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hijacked mutual intelligibility section 

message: I put a "neutral point of view" warning on this sub-section. The sub-section is included in the "Relation to European French" section because Qubec French has a higher frequency of anglicisms than European French. The contents of the section attempts refutes that claim. The sub-section continues to justifies the use of anglicisms in Quebec French on  either the historic oppression of Quebecois, or the "the [Qubec French] anglicisms used are different [than European French anglicisms], and thus more noticeable by European French speakers". 
This language article would be more informative if it discussed differences in the use of anglicisms between European French and Qubec French, rather than discrediting any possible higher frequency of anglisms and attribute such a notion to a) the oppression of Qubec or b) the ignorance of possibly european linguists.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.103.152.51 (talk) 20:04, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV tag on  "Use of anglicisms"