Talk:Jim Naugle

message: Jim Naugle is a notable politician, I think everybody agrees. Please let the article be for a couple hours while I add content.--Legionarius 23:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Speedy Deletion

message: I have removed the article cited on Digg (originally from some online forum called BGay). When the very first sentence manages to screw up a major fact (Naugle's party registration), one does not need to read any further, especially when the article is unattributed and full of subjective nonsense. Get a real newspaper to report on it (or a TV station), and come back then. Horologium t-c 19:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Digg article 

message: Reproducing the text from the article:
OK, let's look at your friends. There's Bob Cox. There's Fred Guardabassi, who sent a letter to the Sun-Sentinel complaining about "fags" and "queers." And you've got Dr. D. James Kennedy, the reverend who basically believes that homosexuality leads to damnation.
Fred's been a leader in this community. I don't agree with everything he does or says, but I respect him just like I respect [gay-rights and city activist] Robin Bodiford. Ask Robin what kind of mayor she thinks I've been.
So, he is saying that he respects gay activists or any other person in general - like he respects Guardabassi. This is what the article says and looks clear to me. I do not see POV here. He used Bodiford as an example, like he could use anybody else, gay rights activist or not.--Legionarius 04:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Respect activists

message: Back to the article:
What are your thoughts on Bill Clinton?
Is there a statute of limitation on rape?
Do you think he's guilty of rape?
I think it should be investigated. He abuses women. 
I do not think we could quote "rapist", because this is not in the NT article. You could say that he was implying Bill Clinton is a rapist, should be investigated for rape, or that he abuses women, but he never said "rapist". Again, according to the article.
*just for the record, I never even heard of JN before I did this article for the Fort Lauderdale project.
--Legionarius 04:30, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rapist

message: I had a couple of issues with this piece that prompted me to fail it rather then placing it on hold. I've never previously failed a GA, so I hope I don't sound overly critical here, but I think this piece is a long way from attaining GA-status. Here are 10 points(although these are not the only 10 things I had trouble with) that could be improved upon before resubmitting it.
1. It strikes me as very short for a B-class biography to begin with, and I think its closer to start-class. I know length is not a prerequisite to become a GA, but there is very little about what happened between 1975 and 1985 other than the fact that he served on some city boards (which boards?). The largest paragraph in the political career section is ostensibly a description of the role of the mayor and city manager. There is only one sentence regarding his accomplishments, and little else describing what happened while he served as Mayor (he is the longest serving Mayor in city history--shouldn't there be plenty of information to flush this section out?) In my mind, there is no description of his working relationship with gay-rights activist Robin Bodiford to support the inclusion of the statement in the political views area, but that could easily be remedied.
2. There are numerous sentences that need citations, even if they are from things that have already been cited. Some of them are a major problem. They include:
*Son of a paint retailer, he studied in a Lutheran school in his early years. (source, what school?)
*He asserts that his first business experiences were selling fruitcakes for the Cub Scouts and working after school with his father. (source)
*He co-chaired George W. Bush's presidential campaign in 2000 and Jeb Bush's bid for Governor in 1998. (source, and expand on his role?)
*In past presidential elections, he supported Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush and Bob Dole—all Republicans.(source)
*Described as a "renegade democrat" by The Washington Post, he said in 2000 that he votes for the candidate, not just the party.(which article? was it an editorial?)
*Asked why he never became a Republican, he said that as a non-partisan office holder, he did not see a reason to change, but that he would have to do "some soul-searching" if he ran for other offices.(source)
*"hate-America stuff"(source)
*Naugle has had a long-running dispute with his constituency's largest regional newspaper, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel; he has claimed it should be called Rainbow Sentinel because of a supposed majority of gay people on its staff, or Scum-Sentinel because they are "an advertising tabloid newsblog"(source, also "supposed majority" should be something like "what he perceives as a majority" although that in and of itself could be NPOV, so its tricky)
3. The sentence "He even suggested that Bill Clinton should be investigated for rape" strikes me as potentially libelous. I wrote an article about a very controversial Mayor who was involved in the cover up of the disappearance of a million dollars from the school treasury. When I was writing the article, the coverup was "suggested". I think its important here to identify the specific quote, and its context.
4. The parenthesis around "(referring to the publication's practice of employing homeless people as street salespeople)." should be removed ant it should be incorporated into the sentence.
5. "He qualifies himself as very conservative and willing to limit government."  is a one-sentence paragraph, and also seems to be out of place.
6. All of the controversy should be moved to it's own "Controversy" section and out of the "Political Views" section.
7. The citation formatting is wrong. The news paper articles should go Lastname, Firstname. “Article title”. Source or Source, (pp. X if any). Month Day, Year. and the others should read “Blog/Website Article Name”. Retrieved on yyyy-dd-mm from Source.</ref> This is extremely pertinent because many of the sources are editorials and blogs(I am not opposed to utilizing them, however citing properly helps identify them as such).
8. The external links section should be expanded, both in length and detail (Official Site of what?)
9. There are numerous categories that apply to this politician.
10. The lead section is very short, albeit an excellent start. I have been told the standard is 3-4 paragraphs (at least 1 for a stub, 2 for a start) although this is only a guideline. 
Sorry to disappoint you with the fail, I hope it can be improved in the future and eventually resubmitted. MrPrada 03:27, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA-fail 

message: I will re-review this article in the next couple of days–my vacation ended so I've had less time to focus on reviewing. MrPrada 22:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No hurry, take your time; just wanted to check if it was in your to-do list. Thank you!--Legionarius 02:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  re:edits 

message: Many parts of the article seem to be aimed at painting Naugle as a Republican in Democrats' clothing.  From uncited rumors from blogs about who he supposedly supported in presidential elections to the sentence, "He even suggested that Bill Clinton should be investigated for rape," it smacks of POV.  Seriously, "He even suggested that Bill Clinton should be investigated for rape?"  What exactly is that supposed to mean? 67.135.49.147 16:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't realize that thinking Clinton should've been investigated because of the rape allegations against him was an issue that decided if one was or was not a Democrat or wanted to be one or not. 67.135.49.147 05:17, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That phrase ended up like that as the result of the discussion, as the other editor wanted to use harsher wording. Please rephrase  if you think it can sound better... --Legionarius 14:46, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I really can't think of any reason at all for the sentence to in the article in the first place. Seems more like a "See? He wanted Clinton investigated for rape! What kind of Democrat would want that?" smear. 67.135.49.147 04:17, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense. I moved it to Controversy.--Legionarius 23:43, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: This article is POV disguised as fact.  Maybe Naugle is a sleazebag, but that's no excuse for POV.  And citing someone else's opinions is still POV.  Perhaps Naugle has said flat-out that he doesn't support gay rights (or is it just that he doesn't support gay marriage, or doesn't support certain rights?), but the footnote used for this was slippery and non-specific.  And exactly how did he "defend" anti-sodomy laws?  The footnote tries to make the argument, using an irrelevant reference to Lawrence v Texas, and cites no apecific news item, just a publication. To rise above advocacy these assertions need specific citations. — J M Rice (talk) 23:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obviously not a "Good" article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified