Talk:2008 Russian presidential election

message: After certain initial setbacks, this article slowly began maturing and is now one of the most unbiased articles in Western media about Russia. Remembering how this article started, (with Other Russia clowns trying to look like they have any relevance) and what it has been, I'd say it was a major improvenment. Nicely written. Maybe the writers of this article should observe the 2012 election in Russia 72.245.82.251 (talk) 22:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, thankyou very much - I can claim credit for starting this article - back in late 2005 I believe (Yes, as late as that) - and even then a number of people came along (were they Wikipedia editors / moderators?) and either deleted the article outright or put a request for deletion on the article. Fine I thought, if the Wikipedia policy is to never cover future events, I guess that's the way it is - but then why on Earth are there countless articles on future US Presidential Elections for instance! Countless - precisely because there is no such policy because it would be stupid and unworkable! Glad to see the article eventually grow and obviously properly record the eventual Russian Presidential Election - which was IMO a very important one, although we'll not know what impact it has until we really know what Dmitry really stands for.202.139.104.226 (talk) 09:42, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Well done! 

message: Should there be any mention on this page of the suspicion that Putin may in fact renege on his promise not to change the Constitution and in fact run again? Or is that too much in the realm of speculation? jkm 21:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: shrugs Find a source stating it, and then feel free to add it. Shouldn't be hard to find some newspaper stating the obvious likely result.  —Nightstallion (?) 22:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it seems that Putin has definitely ruled that prospect out - although he still wants to exercise power behind the scenes. Could Putin create a new post for himself - perhaps General Secretary of the Russian Federation? Let's hope not.jkm 09:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There'll be no democracy in Russia within the next two decades, I'm afraid that's fairly certain. ::sighs:: We can only hope. —Nightstallion (?) 09:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I fear you may be right about that - particularly as Russia comes to rely more and more upon its oil and resource wealth. As for the new guy Putin hand-picks, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for 2 years - keep in mind he'll be coming to office in the middle of an American Presidential Campaign, so his first year in office will be with a lameduck counterpart - and as such most likely won't be all that important - or indicative. 2009 will be when we learn exactly what type of person it is that Putin has picked - and also I would guess what sort of power Putin still wields - I suspect it will be considerable throughout the remainder of 2008, but that it might start to taper off in 2009.jkm 12:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We might get lucky -- the next president could be a modernising democrat in disguise. But I'm afraid our chances are slim... —Nightstallion (?) 18:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Putin & Constitution

message: I have removed the comments about Garry Kasparov which refer to the March of the Discontented as I feel they breach NPOV guidelines.  They simply parrot the lazy Western media line that Kasparov is a democrat whose demonstrations are being "violently put down" by the dictator Putin.  If we are gonig to mention Kasparov's dubious activities, we should also mention his alliance with hardline communists, neo-fascists and unreconstructed Stalinists, his links to neoconservative, Zionist and anti-Russian think tanks in the United States, his miniscule level of support from the Russian population, and the fact he wishes to overthrow the elected government of Vladimir Putin by unconstitutional means.  If we are going to mention the March of the Discontented, we also need to mention the fact that an opposition demonstration by the Union of Right Forces on the same day passed without incident, and that the specific aim of Kasparov's marchers was to provoke violence for the purpose of the Western media.
So, I propose, either we include my comments about when talking about Kasparov, or I delete the previous, fawning comments which have been added by another user. Shotlandiya 12:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An anon has replaced all that with a link to Other Russia, which is fine with me. And with you, I gather. DirkvdM 07:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

text: You yourself said that if one side is explained then the other should also. So why don't you play by your own rules? I'm not in the mood for a revert war, so please do the honourable thing and fix it yourself. DirkvdM 07:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kasparov

message: The article used to claim that Other Russia "seeks to overthrow Putin through unconstitutional means".  It would appear to be a remnant of an old subtle case of WP:Vandalism.  I removed the claim.
However, in Russian politics, nothing is impossible.  If my removal would be incorrect, please reintroduce and explain here. Digwuren 16:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ovethrow?

message: I just went through and titled all the web-linked references, it seems there are 3 references that no longer exist. I'm not too familiar with Russian politics so maybe someone else might like to replace them? Them can be viewed in the references section. --Borgardetalk 13:52, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: As for now, article contains many speculations and names of people who were considered to become candidates. Meanwhile, the registration process is going on, many of them even didn't ask for ballot, or failed to register. 
Who can read russian, according to Electoral Comission official website (there's a list of their protocols, not candidates' list, though), six following people are already registered:
* Mikhail Kasyanov (December 14)
* Andrey Bogdanov (December 18) - he wasn't even mentioned in our article
* Gennady Zuganov (December 19)
* Vladimir Zhirinovsky (December 19)
* Dmitry Medvedev (December 21)
* Boris Nemtsov (December 22)
And following bids are dismissed:
*Nikolay Kuryanovich (mistakes in documents)
*Oleg Shenin (similarly)
*Vladimir Bukovsky (he didn't live in Russia last 10 years)
*Garry Kasparov (failed to gather his congress)
*Sergey Glubokov 
*Vladimir Ischenko
*Yuri Gujabidze
*Dmitri Berdnikov
*Nikolay Zubkov 
(who are all these people 5-9, btw?)
I think it's time to stick to who is really running, not to speculations on Putin, Lukashenko, or Lugovoy. Garret Beaumain (talk) 14:01, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Candidates

message: While the brilliant minds of the article explored the possibility of Lukashenko running, (which was against the Russian Constitution that was never violated under Putin, so no Lukashenko) and some trying to suggest that Kasparov is supported by most Russians, riiiight, his only supporters are those who get cash from him, or that Kasyanov was "unfairly banned" when most of his signatories came from famed Russian novels, like Dead Souls by Gogol or War and Peace by Tolstoy, "I, Natasha Rostova hereby endorse Kasyanov", others trying to play Washington Post lies as facts, you kinda missed out on the actual fact that four parties endorsed Medvedev, not just United Russia. This is significant because one of the four is Agrarian Party of Russia, whose presidential candidate, Nikolai Kharitonov, came in second place after Putin in 2004 election. The other party is Fair Russia, a party that holds about 10% of seats in the Duma and is very important. I have remedied this error, but if you can provide links to these parties, like you have done to United Russia, please do so. 68.166.129.76 (talk) 09:09, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medvedev Endorsements 

message: The article only mentions one incident. Hence it is gramatically silly to call in Incidents. I have fixed the problem. And once again, this is not a chance to advertise London's uncomfirmed views on Litvinenko, or to advertise Gasparov and Other Russia. The main reason the Liberals of Russia are weak is the horrible policy of Union of Right Forces (SPS) that turned Russia into one huge dump, something Russians will never forgive SPS for. 68.166.129.76 (talk) 09:20, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammatical Edit 

message: Please prove how Other Russia is relevant to Russian elections, before posting anything about them. Initially Other Russia wanted to run, by they were denied because they failed to meet the deadline (kinda hard to be a leader of the World's largest country if you can't meet deadlines) and now they whine everywhere. This is about Russian Elections on wikipedia, it is not a SPAM forum for Other Russia to use. 68.167.1.246 (talk) 06:59, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Russia Relevance 

message: User:Miyokan has twice deleted references to an article in the Guardian newspaper criticial of the election's fairness (, ) on the grounds that the article did not cite its sources.  Respected newspapers do not need to cite their sources and just to check I brought the issue up at the village pump here where this was explained in greater detail.  I have reinstated the Guardian's criticism and to avoid edit-warring would suggest that any plans to remove it be discussed here first. Pgr94 (talk) 13:41, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The opinions at the village pump do not agree with your position.  Please re-instate. Pgr94 (talk) 02:20, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Election fairness: deletions of criticism by [[User:Miyokan]] 

message: Russia Today is a division of RIA Novosti, russian state news agency, and is hardly independent. I don't think it is in the position to evaluate the election fairness, and I am surprised to see at least two references to their coverage in the "Election fairness" section.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.12.127 (talk • contribs) 02:00, March 5, 2008
There's this thing called neutral point of view. That means getting both sides of the story and presenting them in a fair manner. Your assumption that anything a state owned news agency says is a lie is unfounded. Personally, I would trust their words more than a tabloid such as The Guardian, who didn't even attend the election and whose outrageous claims have already been proven false (like always). 99.240.27.210 (talk) 20:01, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: References to Russia Today

message: Should I insert the international respomnce th the election?
Richardkselby (talk) 01:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: International Response

message: European Parliament Member Bernard Perego say the Russian media. This has been inserted into the article
Well did Russian Media check EP website before coming up with this information ?
Because there is no Bernard Perego in European Parliament.
Neither under P
Nor B
Is the European Parliament website wrong ? Or are Russian media talking about different European Parliament ? --Molobo (talk) 08:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this was cleared up in a different talk page, but nonetheless, wiki rules state "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that readers should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source."99.240.27.210 (talk) 05:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Perhaps, using quote signs around the disputed position will make it clear who believed in Perego's European Parliament membership.ilgiz (talk) 12:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

text:  We should not repeat errors, and newspapers are not the most reliable sources (per WP:RS). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Russia Today is a reliable source. Check the discussion on Medvedevs talk page.  99.240.27.210 (talk) 04:06, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Whoever added a comment that Perego is a PACE member did not cite the source.  The current list of members does not show a last name Perego. ilgiz (talk) 14:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian media talk about non-existing European Parliament Member :) 

message: I don't believe Alexander Lukashenko is an "officially declared" candidate for President in 2008  The lukashenka2008 website is registered to and administered by Aleksei Kanurin from the right-wing DPNI (Movement Against Illegal Immigration) in Russia.  To my knowledge Lukashenko himself has shown no intention of standing for President of Russia and, as he is not a Russian citizen, would obviously not be able to.  I have therefore deleted his name from the list of declared candidates.  If anyone disagrees please feel free to add it back, but with proper sources and references.
http://bhhrg.org/mediaDetails.asp?ArticleID=1622
Shotlandiya 13:06, 5 March 2007 (U TC)
There is no chance in hell that Alexander Lukashenko will be able to run for president of Russia. Even if he did run, he would never win, Russinas are not stupid, they would not want to elect a dictator for their president. QZXA2 21:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Alexander Lukashenko

message: This edit doesn't really make sense. You've split arguments into two different sections of the page, there's no continuity and it makes the section incoherent. Two large paragraphs both pertaining to the same issue should not be split into different sections. It should go X says this - Y responds with this, not X says this, then 5 paragraphs down, Y responds with this.  Also, a lot of the "criticism" isn't really criticism, but observations, like the GOLOS statements. The guardian accusations as well, which weren't criticism of the election, but premature accusations.
I'm not completely opposed to splitting the article like this, but it's gotta stay coherent and easy to read, and I think that's best done by presenting issues one at a time.99.240.27.210 (talk) 21:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is up to the reader to decide on the fairness of the election and accusations.  Mixing opposite points makes the section difficult to understand.ilgiz (talk) 21:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're missing the point, splitting arguments on the same issue into two different sections makes the article incoherent. Please check your messages, I've warned you about the three revert rule.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.27.210 (talk) 21:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it is using weasel words such as "but", "although" etc. that allow certain Wiki editors to make an implicit endorsement in the point-by-point section style.  When arguments are separated, each of the side makes its own room without hidden editorial statements.  Thanks for warning me on my reverts,  I'll try to stay calm.ilgiz (talk) 21:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I made the split because I believe it is good to have a clear overall picture of the criticisms with supporting evidence. This should then be followed by clear responses/rebuttals. Before the split it was too jumbled up to get a clear picture. As for the incoherency that I have introduced, my apologies as it's obviously my fault. I totally agree it still needs some work. Pgr94 (talk) 21:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the overall section is/was a little cluttered, but again, some of the stuff in criticism isn't even criticism. I'm not opposed to the idea, but what do we do about things that are neutral, or simple observations that aren't necessarily criticism or responses to accusations like the GOLOS statements?99.240.27.210 (talk) 22:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If the material is not disputed then it could go between "Election fairness" and "Criticisms" along with a brief summary.   Pgr94 (talk) 01:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried my best to split everything up into the proper category. I moved all of the neutral parts and "official reports" above the criticism section, and moved the entire OSCE bit to the "incidences" section, as that seemed to be the best fitting solution to keep the entire issue intact and pertaining to the proper section. Not sure if it's perfect yet but I hope its an improvement at least99.240.27.210 (talk) 03:23, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism and response splits

message: I understand that only valid votes on registered candidates count, so why is the total 98.63% and not 100%? --Camptown (talk) 15:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 98.63% 

message: A bit of a funny article. To paraphrase: "Novosibirsk Oblast will not be punished for Medvedev's poor showing of 61.9%"
Esn (talk) 03:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Novosibirsk Oblast

message: I would try to insert NPOVing by Miyokan and Sbw01f into the correspondent parts of the article. Guys, give me half an hour, I have put  on purpose Alex Bakharev (talk) 08:24, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Editorial conflict

message: I want to put most small details into the daughter article. Lets try keep the rest balanced and short Alex Bakharev (talk) 08:26, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Fairness of Russian presidential election, 2008]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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