Talk:Subtitles

message: I don't feel this article defines teletext subtitles (as used in the UK and Ireland for a deaf and hard of hearing audience) very well. Is there a possibility of a section in the article more clearly defining this element, as the article is largely dealing with the US equivalent and the existence of subtitles in foreign language film, which isn't the same as subtitling for the deaf (in their native language). I accept there are elements of this in the closed captioning article, but subtitles (as the term is used in the UK and Ireland, and Australia) is *not* closed captioning and no one looking for information on it from those countries will go to a closed captioning article. (The term is probably understood by many nevertheless, but only in reference to US television - many TV shows still have the CC embedded on screen when they are distributed. 194.46.200.76 (talk) 15:01, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teletext subtitles 

message: Can anyone provide some information about this? How it was achieved in the past? Which techniques are in use today? By the way do we know the title of the first subtitled film? Michal  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.5.97.224 (talk) 18:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Technique of subtitling used in theatrical film positives? 

message: Are there silent films that happen to have subtitles? When have subtiles been in use first? --Hhielscher 23:12, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There are silent films released in modern times with new subtitles, but I doubt it was used much back in the days, since it would have been easier to produce new intertitles, adapted for a foreign audience. (Which I believe was what was generally done...) 惑乱 分からん 18:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of subtitles? 

message: :A few basic rules can be followed:
:* three seconds are needed to read a line,
:* a single subtitle showing should not exceed two lines, and
:* a line of subtitles should not exceed 37 characters.
Of course the rule to exceed 37 characters can be followed.   Similar rules to exceed 36 or 38 could also be followed.  The statement "the rule to exceed ___ characters can be followed" is very uninteresting.
It seems obvious that someone wanted to say that these rules *are* being followed, not just that they *can* be followed, but they didn't have a reference and couldn't name the organization which follows the rules.
Can anyone fix this up before I delete it? Ken Arromdee 02:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Reading speed rules depend on target audience and conventions in each country; the two-line limitation is also not universal; and the 37 character limitation refers only to subtitles for the non-proportional teletext format. If a modern, smaller propotional font is to be used for the subtitles, you may very well fit 45-50 characters on each line.Consequently, I've removed these "rules" and have changed the whole chapter into a short decription of the subtitling process.Thomas Blomberg 14:49, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I disagree. The 37 character limit is interesting. Although as correctly stated, 37 characters is an absolute limit for Teletext subtitling (which is limited to 40 characters a row - and three characters are used for control characters on a subtitle), many subtitle files are prepared to this limit - regardless of presentation mechanism. The reason why there are only 37 characters on a row is to ensure a wider compatibility of the subtitle file. Authors who create wider rows (i.e. more characters) will create two problems. A) readability... B) the files will need to be re-authored for Teletext use (which is **still** the predominant usage in Europe). JohnBirch 09:43, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What does this mean?

message: At the end of the article we have a list of software for ripping subtitles from DVD's, followed at the bottom of links to websites that do file sharing of ripped subtitles. As distribution of ripped material is a clear violation of copyright in every country (except perhaps in Canada), and as Wikipedia otherwise is very concerned about copyright issues, I definitely don't think the external links should remain, and even the list about ripping software is questionable - especially as the whole issue about ripping isn't addressed at all in the article itself. There could possibly be a separate article regarding the issue of subtitle ripping, or the subject could be included in the existing article about ripping. This article could then have a "see also" that links to that article. What do you think? Thomas Blomberg 02:18, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ripping of subtitles 

message: Here in sweden we always use subtitles, and the majority of the films are foreign country produced. →AzaToth 13:14, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That whole chapter needs a rewrite, as it's both confusing, illogical and wrong. Thomas Blomberg 15:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  in Subtitles vs. dubbing 

message: "In British English "subtitles" usually refers to subtitles for the hard-of-hearing (HoH), as translation subtitles are so rare on British cinema and TV; however, the term "HoH subtitles" is sometimes used when there is a need to make a distinction between the two." In the UK "subtitles" can refer to either for the hard of hearing or for translation purposes. I've never heard the term "HoH subtitles". I think this bit should be deleted. (The above was added by unregistered Lost4eva at 10:47 on 30 March 2006)
:"HoH subtitles" is a term frequently used within the UK subtitling industry whenever you need to distringuish between those and "translation subtitles" (which is the other term often used).Thomas Blomberg 15:47, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference to British terminology 

message: Thoroughly Modern Millie, the Broadway musical, uses English surtitles/supertitles for the Chinese-speaking characters, with great humour value, occasionally swapping over to Chinese when characters unexpectedly speak English.  It seems to be missing from the list.  (Adding this to the talk page because I am an unregistered nobody and don't trust myself to edit the main page correctly; also, there might be a better place for this.) debbiep 192.67.248.92 01:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In "Subtitles as a source of humor" should be Annie Hall, where Woody Allen and Diane Keaton are speaking and their true thoughts are rendered as subtitles. It is an example far more important than most reviewed here. I'll add it. Nazroon 14:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: and in some Austin Powers movies, objects in the background interfere with critical parts of the subtitles on purpose... Jidanni (talk) 13:39, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Humorous use of subtitles 

message: I've removed all the external links from this article, except for the BBC news story. After going through them, they all appeared to be either links to directories of illegally distributed subtitles (which we definitely should not be linking to, as the external link guidelines make clear), or spam links to sundry software packages and companies. If you can make an actual case for including a link, I'm quite open to putting it back, but pretty much all of these links seem to be debris accumulated over time. --Slowking Man 17:39, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And how do you know if they are illegal if they only "appear" to be illegal? Ripping subtitles (or creating them) and sharing them through internet is illegal? And how is suppose to be a legal web page of subtitles? Please, answer because you have deleted very useful information without strong arguments. --MichaelPalin 08:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is. Unless the source is given explicit permission by the copyright holder (usually the production studio), distribution of the material is copyright infringement, as is creating new subtitles (which would be a derivative work). --Slowking Man 07:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are referring to the legality of subtitled that are recorded on the product itself. Text file subtitles are a separate product (and are not really bound with any other products) and you are in fact watching two separate products projected on the same surface. Ergo, text file subtitles are perfectly legal. --213.219.106.76 13:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, text subtitles that are a translation of the dialogue are still a derevative work (translation) of the original material, for which the studios hold the copyright. Taric25 23:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links removed 

message: WikiProject Filmmaking and WikiProject Deaf are already a part of Subtitle (captioning) & Closed captioning , however, these two articles really should be merged. Maybe WikiProject Filmmaking and WikiProject Deaf can work together to merge them. Taric25 08:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is more discussion at Talk:Closed captioning/Archives/2013#Merge. – gpvos (talk) 17:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subtitle (captioning) & Closed captioning 

message: There is an internet series called 1337 Haxxors ethat has subtitles in leet. Can someone add a reference to them? -- NaBUru38 22:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it is noteable to subtitles as a whole, then you may add it. Othewise, it is better to add it to 1337 with a wikilink to Subtitle (captioning). Taric25 23:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leet Haxors 

message: I've removed the "New technology & Research" section twice now, with a clear description why: the two links seem like spam to me. The first one is a page without any real content: the article section is empty, the links page is broken and many pages have "Untitled document" as title. This has been like this for a long time now. The second link points to a commercial company offering some service - it has no useful content except for a "we do subtitles, hire us" message. The section containing this spam has been added by someone yet again, and I'm not going to delete it a third time because I don't want to end up in an endless editing war.
If someone could keep an eye on this that would be nice. 129.125.101.92 18:24, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Research" spam 

message: I am a professional translator who has begun to work with subtitling and, after running into many problems, did a fair amount of research on the internet; in the process I came across two really helpful articles and the well-known "Code of Subtitling Practice," the links for which I would like to share on this page if other people also find them helpful. Here are my link proposals:
European Association for Studies in Screen Translation Code of Good Subtitling Practice:
http://www.esist.org/Code.pdf
Article on proposed set of subtitling standards in Europe
http://www.accurapid.com/journal/04stndrd.htm
A very helpful paper on subtitling practice:
http://www.peak-translations.co.uk/ChapterTwo-Subtitling.doc
Adanepst 15:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Link suggestions

message: There are section called "For media" contain a link to DVD subtitles which redirects to the same page, Subtitle (captioning). --166.87.255.131 01:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong link

message: I've seen scores and scores, perhaps hundreds of English subtitles where some background conversations are described as "chattering", which my dictionary defines as "to talk idly or rapidly" --- neither of which refers to just ordinary talking. Are all these subtitle-writers just mindlessly copying each other?! Suggest: "(Sound of people) talking", not "chattering".Jakob37 01:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "chattering" ? 

message: Cleaning up disambiguation page links...in the For Media section one of the links just says Cinema, I linked it to "film" for lack of any other idea...is it supposed to link to a description of movie subtitling or is the link to the movie entry acceptable?  Thanks!! Legotech (talk) 08:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: For Media Section

message: More software subtitle formats: http://www.urusoft.net/products.php?cat=sw Visor (talk) 12:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: These are just the formats that subworkshop handles. Many important formats are missing, e.g. MPEG-4 Timed Text or all bitmap-based formats.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.31.172 (talk) 20:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subtitle formats 

message: Ad. diff. The license of the picture requires Taric's name and link to his website, but both of them are non-notable for the subject and thus these informations should be deleted from the article. Is it a sneaky spam? For further discussion, go to Wikipedia_talk:Spam#Image_copyright_&_spam. Visor (talk) 18:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead picture and self-promotion 

message: In the table section where notated that subtitles may be "Editable" Hard subs are listed as NO, where would not the proper caption be as its partner a "Difficult, but possible"? The same tools that remove logos from video rips are also used by people (myself included) to remove/edit subtitles on VCDs. Lostinlodos (talk) 21:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just a question 

message: Why is no mentioning made of Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language? for Webcasting products ?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.51.28.160 (talk) 08:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No SMIL ? 

message: Is there an extension of ISO language codes for subtitles? For example, how would I tag English subtitles for the hearing impaired? I've seen codes like en-HI or eng_SDH, but is there a standard?--87.162.31.172 (talk) 20:11, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: [T]he two braces (“”) are uncommon, since most closed caption identifiers use parentheses (“(” and “)”) or square brackets (“[” and “]”).
Yeah, that struck me as hinky right off the bat, too. I’m sure some of the newer decoders can display curly brackets, but… I’ve never seen them used in a programme. Somebody’s gotta fix that. —Wiki Wikardo 05:39, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language codes 

message: This article seems very focussed/structured around production of subtitles.  I looked for lists or analysis of the various ways used to distinguish speakers (colours, positioning, naming,...) but can find nothing about the styling of subtitles themselves, or the nontext ways to convey information.  The whole thing seems tunnel visioned on the act of converting speech, rather than enhancing the viewer's experience.  The word colour/color hardly appears on the page at all.  Am I reading the wrong article?  Shannock9 (talk) 02:21, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colours as used in DVB subtitles 

message: This article to me seems to repeat the same info in lots of diferent places. I think it needs a good copy edit. I am happy to do this, perhaps I should put it in my sandbox so it can be reviewed there? SimonTrew (talk) 16:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repetition 

message: On UK television, programmes are sometimes broadcast with a presenter simultaneously translating into British Sign Language. I am not sure that this should be included here, since it is not, except in the broadest sense of the term, subtitling— but perhaps a brief reference would be in order? SimonTrew (talk) 16:11, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sign Language 

message: Since subtitles (in some countries) use different colours for different characters, can we recolour the second line? I suggest cyan (00FFFF). SimonTrew (talk) 00:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Initial picture- colours of subtitles 

message: The article lists Sweden among other as a country where subtitles are used, which is usually the case, however, movies targeting children such as cartoons and similar are always dubbed or have at least a dubbed alternative to the subtitled one. Perhaps this should be mentioned in the list? Daniel 83.254.131.36 (talk) 20:35, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's worth saying. Hard to give a reliable source here if it spans a wide area. I remember watching Sesame Street in Spanish when I was younger, which is rather odd as I was in the UK, perhaps they just got the wrong tapes or something. I still remember it being Agua not water. SimonTrew (talk) 21:03, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed now that it is actually mentioned in the paragraph directly above list. I guess it's not needed then since it would probably just bloat the list even further. If anything, maybe it should somehow be a bit clearer than it is now. -- Daniel 83.254.131.36 (talk) 15:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I see where you mean but I can't think how I would move this without giving undue weight to it. Have a go, change it yourself, it will soon get changed back if it's that bad! SimonTrew (talk) 15:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exceptions e.g. Children movies 

message: As a German, I would strongly favour mentioning that dubbing usually leads to a drastic quality loss through poor acting, which is a major disadvantage. A further complication is that the translations for dubbing are often made to match mouth movements, rather than contents. Examples of this include "you may reprocure your vehicle" being turned into the equivalent of "drive your piece of junk away" and "Are you resisting arrest?" to "Who is hopping around?". (Yes, I am being quite serious.) Notably, those Germans who have once learned to listen to movies in the original language find it extremely frustrating to go back.
88.77.148.211 (talk) 10:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubbing 

message: I've read that once upon a time subtitles were banned in Indonesia!
Does anyone know why?
What would be the motive for banning subtitles?
Have they been banned in other countries?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.212.187.69 (talk) 07:27, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banning of subtitles 

message: Open substitles also means open source substitles as in OpenSubtitles.org. --Diamondland (talk) 12:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Open substibles 

message: I suggest include information about the *.utf substitle file. ( See ).--Diamondland (talk) 17:37, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  * utf subtitle file 

message: I am surprised that there are no references as to who invented it and when and how it has evolved, I would be very interested in that information and overall I think it would be really relevant, so far what I have read seems somehow more like a guide and not so much an encyclopedia article, still, very informative but needs improvement...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.29.151.143 (talk) 23:34, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of Subtitling 

message: It seems like TTML should be included in the format table; it's now the W3C standard format for subtitles, after all.  --Sacolcor (talk) 14:49, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  TTML? 

message: The article has "programs" and "programmes". Dominant variety seems to be US English. Glrx (talk) 15:42, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  English variety 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: hard subtitles are mixed with the video, soft subtitles are a separate data file you can close  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:4107:9B00:E1F3:636C:4A40:C28D (talk) 20:31, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  hard subtitles vs soft subtitles 

message: In some European countries (e.g. Denmark), subtitles are used to translate foreign dialogue in news broadcasts instead of voice-over translations. Could someone please add information about this? Zakawer (talk) 12:22, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  No reference to the use of subtitles to translate foreign dialogue in some European news broadcasts 

message: I have removed links in the section as they are not directly related to the article's encyclopaedic content and the linked sites just seem to be movie subtitles of what would be copyright dialogue.  The links do not improve the article. Please see Wikipedia:External links for what would be considered an appropriate link. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:34, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed section to subtitle websites 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article had said that in the United States, subtitles are "required by U.S. Federal Communications Commission for licensed English-language channels when program is in another language". This doesn't sound right to me. If, for example, an English-language U.S. broadcast station wanted to show, say, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon with an English-dubbed soundtrack rather than with English-language subtitles, does it make sense that the FCC would prohibit that? I've never heard of that before. That doesn't sound like the kind of issue the FCC gets involved in. (The FCC is very concerned about closed captioning for the hearing impaired, but that's a different situation.) If I am wrong and there really is a U.S. regulation requiring subtitles instead of dubbing, someone can provide a source to prove that. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:00, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  If the program were broadcast with an English dubbed soundtrack then it would not be in 'another language' and the provision would not apply. Bonusballs (talk) 14:51, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but does the provision even exist? If an English-language TV station wanted to show a foreign-language program, with no translation into English, late at night, in order to cater to a local immigrant community that lacked a TV station in its own language, do FCC regulations prohibit that or require special permission? Where is the regulation that addresses that issue? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:25, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subtitles in the United States 

message: Perhaps mention why open subtitles got started being called open and closed subtitles got started being called closed.
Yes we understand their meanings. But we wonder how they earned their names. Jidanni (talk) 13:41, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of open versus closed 

message: The article mentions the alternative of surtitles but not sidetitles. I remember seeing foreign films, with the original sound track, in Japan, with sidetitles, that is, a Japanese translation written vertically, along the right side of the screen. I have no idea where to find references to this.Bill (talk) 01:20, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: sidetitles

message: The SubStation Alpha page was deleted and redirected to this page, this is a problem because the original page contained valuable documentation on the format. It is my opinion that this should not have occurred as the page was a valuable resource to those creating subtitles in the format. 75.80.49.225 (talk) 00:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  SubStation Alpha page deleted and redirected to this page, why? 

message: Hjiikkkk 112.206.34.55 (talk) 08:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  i will be glad to become a part of your ass