Talk:Omorashi

message: I'm not one to spring to Lindsay's defense for her sake, but the article referenced (http://socialitelife.buzznet.com/2005/09/28/lindsay_lohan_gets_moist.php) does not in any way make it clear that she has ever actually wet herself publicly, nor does it link her possibly having done so to any other such events. It definitely wasn't on the Howard Stern show. In addition, Lindsay Lohan makes no mention whatsoever of this occurrence. Until someone can source this a little better, I'm removing it. Personman (talk) 01:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Factual Accuracy re: Lohan

message: I have removed the "This article does not site any sources" tag due to the fact that it now cites many sources. However, it still needs a little work. Any help anyone wants to offer would be great. Fsecret 23:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cited sources

message: According to the official site, the title of the cited DVD is "New Pee-holding Tournament, Vol. 2, Part 1."
And I'm afraid that "don't urinate" sign in Japan is quite misleading. It never is standard nor official sign in Japan. It may only be one of the possible design examples of private posters. Did Fsecret make that by himself? The caption should be specified anyway to avoid misunderstanding. -- unsigned
The title was taken from the index of japanese fetish videos listed in external links. If that is the correct title, then it should be changed. The "don't urinate" sign is from google. I was reading about japanese attitudes toward public urination when I recalled that I had seen images of such signs before. I did an image search a sure enough, it popped up. It may vary well be a private practice to post such signs. If the person who commented above would like to look into such details, it would certainly strengthen the article. Fsecret 00:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Title of video and caption of sign

message: I think that there are already sufficant photo referances here, but this is a very good example of yagai:
http://ethnorotica.com/article/80/only-in-japan
Fsecret 01:27, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Yagai

message: :Image:Shizukuishi kyuun kyuun toilet paper.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:19, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Shizukuishi kyuun kyuun toilet paper.jpg

message: This is because we don't use selfreferential names in headings.68.148.164.166 (talk) 03:51, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Omorashi in Japan

message: Recently, the Brooklyn rail has run a second omorashi story. This story is by a different author than the one they ran in 2006, and it is notable for the fact that it does not contain Japanese characters or settings as the last one did. This makes it of unique importance to the "Outside of Japan" section. Clearly, it is an example of purely American omorashi subculture.
The original inclusion of this reference attempted to contrast the differences in content between Japanese and non-Japanese manifestations of the fetish with their similarities in attitude. It read as follows: 
Feminine submission remains a constant in omorashi materials published outside of Japan, even when no female characters are involved. For instance, the June 2008 issue of The Brooklyn Rail featured a piece of short fiction focused on the sexual feelings of a young man who wets his pants when he is tickled. Though he expresses sexual feelings toward girls, he becomes the submissive partner in a gay relationship when another boy discovers and exploits this weakness.
The problem with this revision was that it contained original research. The first sentence is an unsourced fact, a fact which must remain unsourced (and therefore not included on wikipedia) due to the fact that discussion in fetish communities takes place most often on message boards rather than in published articles. Therefore, the first attempt at a revision was altered as follows:
However, not all American omorashi materials center around Japanese characters and female wetters. For instance, a June 2008 issue of The Brooklyn Rail featured a piece of short fiction focused on the sexual feelings of a young man who wets his pants when he is tickled. Though he expresses sexual feelings toward girls, he becomes the submissive partner in a gay relationship when another boy discovers and exploits this weakness.
This revision continued to be met with the objection that the source contains only story, and that analysis and commentary by WP editors is WP:OR. One needs an outside party in order to make an analysis.
In the opinion of this editor, the revision above did not qualify as analysis so much as a plot summery, a summery which leaves it up to the reader how to interpret the events described and their departures from the Japanese standard. However, I could certainly see how the description in the last sentence could skew the perspective of the article away from neutrality. I revised the statement a second time: 
However, not all American omorashi materials center around Japanese characters and female wetters. For instance, a June 2008 issue of The Brooklyn Rail featured a piece of short fiction focused on the sexual feelings of a young American man who wets his pants when he is tickled.
It is certainly true that the source cited, the story itself, if examined even a glance, will reveal that the sentence "not all American omorashi materials center around Japanese characters and female wetters" is true. The narrator and wetter is an American man. To summarize the text as describing this character's sexual feelings does not seem to be debatable either. The story is erotica - a form which by definition begins and ends with a description of the protagonist's sexual feelings. There have been no objections to the earlier reference that the 2006 story describes the shooting of an omorashi film in Japan with Japanese characters. I am confused as to what needs to be done to make the new reference as acceptable as the old. Could the editor concerned make any suggestions on this matter?
Fsecret (talk) 21:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: My objection is that YOU are using the actual stories to provide evidence for analysis and other claims. Use of such primary sources easily slips from direct quotes to original research where Wikipedia editors are making the claims and analysis. All claims and analysis in Wikpedia need to be made and quoted from reliable sources. If you are able to provide a link to a preface to the article where the claim "not all American omorashi materials center around Japanese characters and female wetters"  is made by someone other than you (say the editor of the magazine), then that claim can be included in the article attributed to the person who made the analysis. Your analysis no matter how brilliant and true it may be, if it is not verifiable by being published in a reliable source should not be in the Wikipedia article and will continue to be removed. 207.69.140.25 (talk) 06:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would consider a simple declarative statement: The American periodical Brooklyn Rail has published diaper lover fiction. citation citation to be permisable use of the primary sources. Pretty much anything else and you are getting into analysis.207.69.140.25 (talk) 06:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I understand the point you want to make, but the fact is that it is a point that you are making = OR. You need to find someone else who has made the point in some other reliable source.
Establishing notability isn't really a point I am trying to make ... it is a requirement of Wikipedia. It seems unavoidable that to include the reference it must be explained why a link to the online version of that particular issue of Brooklyn Rail is appearing in the section on Omorashi in print outside of Japan.
Fsecret (talk) 21:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "must be explained why a link to the online version of that particular issue of Brooklyn Rail is appearing" - EXACTLY - and that is why the pieces of fiction themselves are of little use as sources for Wikipedia as primary sources/evidence. What you need is someone in say Slate.com who writes "Gee, there is a lot of Omorashi fiction appearing in American magazines like BR. Bladder desperation is no longer a phenomena limited to Japanese fetish culture." Unlike research conducted for school, you need to find a secondary source that has noticed your pieces of evidence and makes the analysis/claim that you want to add to the article - you cannot make the analysis yourself. If no one else has made that claim, it is original research and not allowed. 207.69.137.23 (talk) 22:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Would the anonymous editor who insists upon reverting the new ''Brooklyn Rail'' reference please help discuss how it should be included?

message: Wikipedia is not a clollection of external links. These have been moved form the article to see which gain consensus of meeting the guidelines for external links. Please add your comments.
===External links===
# A Japanese fetish glossary
# Another Japanese fetish glossary
# The Yuribou Hentai Dictionary
# An index of Japanese erotica, including the Giga company's notorious omorashi videos
# A review of the omorashi eroge, "Water Closet: The Forbidden Chamber."
# A Japanese Porn Term Primer
# Wet Set Magazine
# The Omorashi Report, an online newsletter with a focus on video reviews. Formerly known as Omorashi Magazine. Also features short fiction.
# Poet Garrett Caples describes the shooting of an omorashi film in The Brooklyn Rail. (February 2006)
# Another omorashi story appearing in The Brooklyn Rail. (June 2008)
# An article from AlexSuze.com describes a first time omorashi experience (August 13th 2007)
===comments on which (if any) to include and how they meet the guidelines===
Well, the Wet Set and Brooklyn Rail links seem to fit pretty clearly into the first category of WP:ELYES. The article mentions the publications by name and references specific issues of both magazines. In the case of Brooklyn Rail, the articles in question are freely availible on their website. Specific Wet Set articles, issues, and photosets aren't freely available, but they do have their back issues cataloged in an index with notes on what issues featured what.
Link number 5 seems to fit under the WP:ELMAYBE criteria since it is a review of a game that the article addresses specifically. Fsecret (talk) 01:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  link farm 

message: Well, the Wet Set and Brooklyn Rail links seem to fit pretty clearly into the first category of WP:ELYES. The article mentions the publications by name and references specific issues of both magazines. In the case of Brooklyn Rail, the articles in question are freely availible on their website. Specific Wet Set articles, issues, and photosets aren't freely available, but they do have their back issues cataloged in an index with notes on what issues featured what.
Link number 5 seems to fit under the WP:ELMAYBE criteria since it is a review of a game that the article addresses specifically. Fsecret (talk) 01:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: comments on which (if any) to include and how they meet the guidelines

message: AskMen appears to be a questionable source at best. It is purporting to report information from Heat article - I was not able to locate the article in Heat. -4.158.222.249 (talk) 00:38, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: TL;DR 174.59.16.35 (talk) 21:21, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fergie and 'the leak' 

message: You "couldn't find" the Heat reference? I understand the criticism of using celebrity gossip blogs as sources, but this is a real magazine. What, did you go to the library, run a check for Fergie interviews in men's magazines, index and pull the ones that came up, and read each of them looking for quotes? Did you not see it there? Is that what you mean?
I'm going to assume good faith here and say that I appreciate what you are doing. Establishing legitimacy through reliable sources is one of the most important, difficult, and time consuming things that needs to happen for a Wikipedia article. However, a wholesale wipe of an entire section of an article with real sources in newspapers and magazines is not helpful. I realize that some of these sources need improvement. Blogs and internet gossip sites get their information from somewhere, usually the associated press, and the sources in the section which are (for now) less than ideal are eventually going to have to be replaced with better ones. Someone with a lot of time and energy will have to track down whatever these gossip people were reading when they wrote this stuff and put it on here instead. 
Do a google search for "Fergie wets herself." It turns up ridiculous amounts of hits, chronicling the entire absurd saga in articles, interviews and photographs. Replace Fergie's name with Paris Hilton's, and you will find that the same is true. You will find several different sources detailing how she wet herself first while waiting in line at a restaurant opening (the name of the establishment is "Tao"), then while in a taxi cab in Hawaii. This information is out there.
The stuff with Jenny McCarthy on the Howard Stern show and the Playmates on Night Calls was broadcast on national radio programs, which are a sources all by themselves.
What your deletions boiled the section down to was a single fact without context. This article has come a long way as far as sourcing goes. I ask only that anyone who wants to help in that area do so not with an axe, but a scalpel. Of course anything about celebrities is going to be buried in these kinds of messy sources, but these kinds of placeholder references beat a bunch of unsourced  tags. The goal should be to find the original information in their newspaper and magazine sources and document all the dates and numbers needed to make the references comprehensive. I will endeavor to find the issue number for the Heat interview. I would appreciate it if others would help out with the rest of the source work that needs to be done for this section, but just coming in and tearing it up is just not appreciated.
Thank you. -Fsecret (talk) 18:01, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: TL;DR 174.59.16.35 (talk) 21:21, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Mass deletions

message: Sources that are not talking about omarashi cannot be included in this article. Pulling articles that you think are related, but do not specifically mention this topic is original research and not allowed. 207.69.139.142 (talk) 02:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research and [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] 

message: Some of this seems a little farfetched to me. It's clear people have the fetish, but I think whoever wrote this article wrote it to indulge his fetish or cater up a fetish group. Besides, I bet if someone looked at the resources or translated the japanese text, they'd turn out to be fake. I hear people sometimes tell made-up stories about it, either in public or online, that are completely made up yet they want everyone to think they're true... why I don't know, especially since half of the people telling the stories are female. (I can tell when they're made up, but I'm not CIA or anything like that) Enferloup (talk) 23:34, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: And there's more. I recently looked up Giga on wikipedia, and from the sound of things it's a gaming company (as in video games), which also does visual novels. There's nothing on Giga's wikipedia article about gameshows or about Omorashi, and I already heard someone say the resource's Japanese translation didn't check out. Of course, I could be wrong, but still it's something to think about. Enferloup (talk) 04:12, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Omorashi is indeed very real, and has a lot more popularity in the west then you may think. There are entire websites devoted to Omorashi, such as AnimePee.me. It is an American site that is centralized entirely around Omorashi, with a member base of nearly 3,000 people, and over 20,000 posts. The site shares images, videos, fiction, and real life experiences all centralized around Omorashi, and is clearly referenced to as Omorashi. Though this may not be considered an entirely valid reference, there's even definitions of it listed on UrbanDictionary. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Omorashi
Just wanted to let you all know, there's omorashi.org out there, big reference. I have to admit that I am slightly obsessed with omorashi, and thus can prove, yes, it is real! -75.146.106.69 (talk) 01:50, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Is half this stuff even true?

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Omorashi. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add  after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_hod_84.htm
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_85.htm
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_86.htm
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_hod_87.htm
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_88.htm
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_89.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 10:33, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: How was this phenomenon described by Europeans before 1600 if no one knew that Japan even existed at the time? Joe Vorilong (talk) 17:11, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you point at the section in the article that says this? ~ RobTalk 17:20, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Dubious

message: It keeps jumping back and forth between etymological stuff (what the word means, how it is spelled in Japanese, etc.) and facts about the actual fetish. These two concerns should be split into separate paragraphs. 2A00:23C5:FE0C:2100:7945:6387:B4F1:3559 (talk) 04:45, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  First paragraph is a mess