Talk:Poké Ball/Archive 1

message: Should someone add in how pokeballs often take the characteristics of the pokemon inside? For example, in the episode where Ash caught a Muk, he said the pokeball stunk. Also, when Ash's charmander used Ember/Flamethrower on a Bike Rider's Golem, the Golem became hot, as did its Pokeball when it was retrieved.
: The only logical explanation of the functioning of a Poké Ball, is that it converts the mass of a Pokémon into some sort of special form of energy. That a Poké Ball can smell like the Pokémon inside it, may mean that it does not always fully succeeds in that task. As if some of the special 'Pokemon energy' in the ball leaks away and gets converted back into mass again (in this case: the smelly gasses of Muk).And as for the heat of a Poké Ball, well, I don't think heat is mass right? Heat is a form of energy, energy that a Pokémon contains and is not converted, thus warms up the Poké Ball. 82.217.240.47
::Why always a kinda scientific answer to such questions? I mean, it was just a funny element that the Balls smelled and were hot, I don't think that the authors of these episodes thought about that fact longer than 3 seconds and never had in mind that it has to fit to a logic and comprehensibly explanation --84.129.194.1 17:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pokeballs are like the pokemon 

message: Where does this currency conversion of zenny to USD come from? Zero1328 10:06, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  US$0.54? 

message: Large parts of the article are false.  Nest, Luxury, Repeat, and Timer Balls can be found in FR/LG.  Nest is findable on the Route 12 guy (show him a bigger Magikarp).  Luxury is obtainable from Lady Sophie at Resort Gorgeous.  Repeat and Timer Balls can be found on the Island Two shop.  The question is, where to put this info? 68.237.168.189 05:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed it around a bit. How does this look? I left the bit about Lady Sophie and the bigger Magikarp out because they seemed too GameFAQ-ish to me. Sinistro 09:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sinistro is correct, listing every possible way to get each ball is outside the scope of an encyclopedia article.  We're not trying to help people achieve certain goals in the game, we're giving them information about the concept of poke balls in general.  The reason we discuss each of them is to give the reader an understanding of the kind of variety out there and how that variety has changed throughout time, as well as note any special notoriety a certain kind might have (Ash used a Heavy Ball to catch Snorlax, the Dive Ball is special because it is only found in one town amongst all the games it is compatible with). Zappernapper 06:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to correct? 

message: Well, I noticed that the image for the Safari ball is incorrect. Because the design for the ball has since changed because of the advancment of the series and games. Therefor, I propse the addition to the game sprites from recent pokémon games to be added along with the corresponding pokéballs.
Also, I have some problems about some of the info. Pester Balls are not in any way pokéballs, so I don't see why this has to be included in the article. There is also the fact of the two aincent pokéballs that were featured in the early pokemon episodes. It was the items that held, the giant Jiggly Puff(The Bell), The Alakazam(Dimaond/cylindar shape box with a spoon), and Gengar(with that ghostly symbol)... If this is ok, I'll be glad to add this section in along with pictures of each of them.
I can provide the sprites. I have stocks of them in the back. -TrackerTV 18:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Including Multiple Pokéball Images. 

message: We can also add in the fact that there was a typo in the Nintendo Power game guide to SSB. It said that Ditto would appear, transform into the summoning player, and assist him/her. I've had the darn game since it was released, and I haven't seen Ditto once. DL 20:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ditto appears as a Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Melee, though. dogman15 10:28pm PST, September 9th, 2006
Another thought-The Goomba does not appear from Poké Balls, but from crates or capsules. At least, I'm sure they do. DL 20:39, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

text: That is more relevant to Ditto's page, not this one. -Zappernapper 18:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Smash Bros. Melee 

message: looking over the tables i feel like some info is missing and other things need to be left out.  Provided we have a picture for the pokeball is it neccessary to talk about how it's colored?  i also think it would be best to use the in-game descriptions and then have the next cell describe it's effects in more detail (i.e. x ball is n times greater than the poke ball when used in such a way).  so for all the tables have Name, Desc., Effect, Loc., Picture (if none available then a brief description). -Zappernapper 06:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: sorry, forgot to add sig when i posted that.... neways, anyone wanna comment on this?  i would be removing a lot of information that people have worked on but i think it's for the best fo the article... also perhaps removing the "normal" poke ball locations... seeing as there isn't anything notable about their locations (adding that they can be found to throughout the game in poke marts to the intro should be sufficient).  someone pls give some feedback, i don't like doing massive deletes unless others feel it's for the better as well. -Zappernapper 06:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  poke ball lists 

message: this is mainly in regards to the pokeball lists... i spent about 4 hours off and on working on them, still didn't get to the "Other Balls" but that's gonna require a lot more research than i'm planning on getting into.  any thoughts or suggestions?
-Zappernapper 00:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What do you think? 

message: As for dealing with fair-use images, if it's just a picture of a Pokéball with slightly different colors, it's out. The anime image I left because it's actually showing what's explained in the text. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: you're still avoiding why a slight variation isn't considered fair-use (and your use of slight is open to debate).  Let's say i have an article talking about changing political borders over a period of time (much like changing poke balls over a period of time) assuming there are no free alternatives available i have two fair-use pictures showing the slight change.  They are practically identical, however the subject of them being different is what's being discussed.  i hear your points, your lack of exposition is frustrating me.  I'm adding these pictures in good faith because i honestly feel that to a layperson they would help in comprehension. -Zappernapper 23:34, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

text: but the article is discussing the cosmetic difference -Zappernapper 23:56, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The cosmetic difference isn't so important to the topic that we need compromise the "free" in "Wikipedia: the free encyclopedia" to show it. If you'd like to make a case that it is important, I'd be happy to see a reliable source that made non-trivial mention of the cosmetic difference between the appearances of different sorts of Pokéballs. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:59, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

text: i've brought this to attention at WT:FU#fair_use_images_debated_at_Pok.C3.A9_Ball.  I'd appreciate you posting anything there if you feel i may have paraphrased you incorrectly.  and what would you consider non-trivial mention?  triviality is highly debatable itself, the pokeflute could be considered a trivial item, only having context within the game itself, you haven't removed that for fair-use infringment. and what about the hundreds of fair-use images on wikipedia that are used in episode list tables? these images usually add nothing but pure decoration to their articles using the formula of how easily they could be replaced by another image.  pls note my mention of usually b/c there are still screenshots chosen because they portray the "cultural impact" pivotal scene. -Zappernapper 00:17, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I probably should. The fact that we have other borderline or inappropriate images doesn't obviate the need to remove borderline or inappropriate images. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:22, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: i think that this needs further input, especially since regarding a work of fiction, it'd be nice of you to wait on removals unless you can point to some discussions on wikipedia in the past that would side with ur determinations -Zappernapper 02:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Sorry Zapper, AMIB is right on this one. If there is a website that discusses the Pokeballs and have the galleries, we could link to that, but the variations being discussed in prose is a lot better than just slapping an image into the article. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:05, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Zscout is correct. – Quadell (talk) (random) 12:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Zscout, perhaps you were looking at the page with the tables? Becuase the variations are being discussed in prose. Why is a fair-use image not appropriate to illustrate this?  specifically, this example.  Zscout, you use the phrase, "slapping an image into the article" as if these were purely serving as decoration, but they pass FUC's test question - there aren't other images that could replace them, serving the same purpose - contrast this with a multitude of screenshots used on episode list pages and episode articles themselves.  Oftentimes the shot used isn't one that portrays a significant scene - these fair-use images contribute much more than those.  Keep in mind, i'm all for prose too, but i don't see why we can't have a few fair-use images (4) displaying some of the varieties of pokeballs, ones that are being discussed in the text. -Zappernapper 13:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't have a few fair-use images when just one is no less informative. This is a textbook example of WP:FUC #3. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

text: the problem here is a difference of opinion over what is "adequate." i thought the test question found at the bottom of WP:FUC's policy was an objective way of deciding adequacy rather than arguing back and forth with one's own opinions.  apparently i'm wrong. -Zappernapper 14:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That question is more about #1 than #3, and was written before the crackdown on multiple images. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:54, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

text: then perhaps it needs to be rewritten -Zappernapper 17:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: I don't think that  can be used as a reference on fetishism in pokemon, due to its overall anti-Pokemon bias and the fact that it doesn't really cover in-universe fetishism of the pokeball. Veinor (ヴエノル(talk)) 19:31, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll actually side with you on this, because I'm having a hard time finding any other secondary sources, and the connection discussed within the source is bare at best. -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 21:41, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fetishism reference

message: it would be interesting to have info on their specific purposes in those games... even though i know them well, it would be best to cite a published source on these things... Blueaster 07:28, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, this article as a whole needs to be referenced... it's a time-consuming process that i really should get around to soon huh?  neways, i don't know nething about the tcg, but i'm sure that you could add some basic information about trainer cards (citing the rulebook) and that poke ball trainer cards are typically used to get pokemon from your deck (refer to WP:CITE and WP:REF and you'll see that for non-scholarly subjects, as long as you aren't analyzing, describing the subject matter doesn't need to be thoroughly reffed as long as it's uncontroversial). -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 11:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  the tcg and pokemon monopoly.... 

message: I must say that I completely disagree with your opinion that his information is too specific, citing it as game-guide.  The original games only had one.  In later games they changed this and other methods were introduced to obtain more.  How is that a guide?  It's very basic information that in no way instructs or delves into minutiae (it doesn't say how or where you get it).  The other side of the coin are the other claims about it's focus as an explotiable item.  They aren't reffed but after a cursory search I was able to find several hits for "Master ball glitch"  but only five for "Duplication" and both gamespy and gamefaqs have cheats that recommend using in conjunction with the master ball. How might we ref this?
::Master Ball 
::The Master Ball item itself has gained further notoriety beyond that of the other Poké Balls due to it constant focus as an exploitable item . Because it is so powerful in the gameplay, the original games only offered one Master Ball to trainers. However, in the games Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald a Master Ball can be won at the lottery. In subsequent games various side-quests and random events were occasionally introduced to allow players a chance at getting additional Master Balls. Due to this restriction, several glitches that were useful for any variety of items came to be called things like "The Master Ball Duplication Trick." 
Thoughts? -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 12:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ok... just didn't want to put it back in if there was something wrong with it. -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 10:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Master Ball 

message: "If the Pokéballbreaks, well... When Brock's Ninetales ball breaked, Brock said Ninetales was automatically released. When Ash Ketchum's Snorlax ball breaked, he got it repaired and still had Snorlax. Interestingly, Snorlax ball breaked on a rock, while Ninetales ball breaked while engulfed in a fire attack. Or was it Brock knocked by a fire attack, and dropping the ball? Or did Brock want to let Ninetales go?"
Which episodes were these? Blueaster 06:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Probably relevant content that needs to be heavilly edited and checked before readding... 

message: Should we mention this in the Sinnoh Poké Balls section? I'm divided on it myself, since while Serebii has a few screenshots of putting these "stickers" (there's no indication in the screenshots' text to indicate that that's what they're even called) on the Poké Ball, there's none showing the special effects they're supposed to cause on release - the most notable thing about the whole function. Anyone have an opinion on this? ~e.o.t.d~ (蜻蛉の目•話す•貢献) 04:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i was at first tempted to add something, but then realized it would be hard to say anything without conjecture... waiting for english release :) -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 05:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with both of you. Sticker information ought to go on the page, but it's better to wait for an English-language release for the sake of accuracy. You Can't See Me! 01:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poké Ball "stickers" in D/P 

message: First of all, I'm getting rid of the remaining table at the bottom of the page: Pester Balls and Jammer Balls aren't even Poké Balls, and the Giant Ball is hardly notable (one chapter of the manga? please). The Dark Ball seems barely more notable (not to mention there's now a Dark Ball in the games as of D&P), so that's going too. I guess it could be worked in somewhere else, but I'm not going to because I don't know where to put them - someone with more anime/movie experience can do that. The Snag Ball is the only thing on the table that's at all notable, so I'll put that in paragraph form and stick it in somewhere. I'll probably do more work on this in the next couple of days, but this list has been bugging me for way too long. ~e.o.t.d~ (蜻蛉の目•話す•貢献) 01:14, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A bit of cleanup 

message: Is it worth mentioning how the pokeballs are recalled in the various media? In the anime the actual pokeball is neccesary in order to recall the pokes', while in the games the pokeball seems to disappear and only return when the pokemon is recalled. It's probably rather trivial info, but still.
:you're right, it is trivial.  we already say how he pokeball is used to store pokemon, and the fact that the video games (which are mostly rather limited in animation anyway) don't show a whole sequence of the ball returning to the player is kind of pointless. -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 19:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recall Mechanism 

message: That section just seems useless with unneedable dat. dhould it be deleted? Bluebrody7 04:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia section 

message: Should there be a picture of a Poké Ball at the top of the article? I found a good picture here. Unknownlight 02:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a good idea to include non-free images in an article's lead if you can avoid it. And in this case, I can avoid it: there's a textual description of the external appearance of the device immediately below the TOC. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 14:31, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just wondering 

message: I'm gonna get the 'one other thing' out of the way: Pokéballs. One word. Not two. That aside, the First Pokéballs sub-article only talks about Sir Aaron's Pokéstaff, no others. What about Prof. Oak's? What about the Pokéballs of the giant Alakazam, Gengar (I think it was Gengar), and Jigglypuff? What about that freaky Ball the ancient Ninetales was in? Mack-the-random 01:36, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: First Pokéballs & One Other Thing