Talk:Contact juggling

message: Gujamin of the contactjuggling Yahoo discussion group proposed the idea of a contact juggling convention and various locations were proposed, ultimately settling on Florida as the location for the first convention in Sept. 2001. The first convention was funded and organized by a contact juggler named Ferret, and had an attendance of only about 35 people. Rich Shumaker helped Ferret with this convention and filmed the ill-fated competition. Future Contact Juggling conventions in 2002 and 2003 did not have competitions.   <BR>
Original Discussion on Yahoo by Gujiman - 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contactjuggling/message/333<BR>
Chico Asks What is Going on - 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contactjuggling/message/1368<BR>
Ferret takes over - 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contactjuggling/message/1387?var=1&l=1<BR>
Surveys are handed out via the net - filled out - and we are all set<BR>
1 Problem - Ferret lives in FL not GA - So the venue is switched to FL<BR>
Link to the CJC2001 Convention Videos - http://www.youtube.com/user/contactjugglingorg - This link should be added to the Links Section as it does not exist on any of the Links to Links Pages(DMOZ, ect.)
I have no idea how to create a reference link inside the page so I made it here (Help link this on the main page)
--RichShumaker (talk) 00:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reliable Source

message: cannot be considered a sub-discipline of contact juggling. 
Any justification for this? 
Its related in that it deals with the manipulation of an object that doesn't leave the skin - but so is brushing one's teeth.
I've moved the link under a 'See also' header. Laurence9993 16:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As a ball contact juggler, I agree to your statement for the most part. The definition can be absurdly broad. Kind of a "I know it when I see it" thing. For example, Contact Staff isn't mentioned on this article at all. Although it is relatively widespread in the staff spinning community and gaining an incredibly following. 66.119.27.235 19:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't completely agree with your generalization. Contact juggling includes a dynamic component, i.e. movement that can't be reproduced statically. If you stopped moving your hand while brushing your teeth, the tooth brush isn't likely to fall out of your hand. Ceran 04:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Pen Spinning could and should be considered a sub category because you are keeping it in contact with your body.  Thus juggling it in contact with your body. - Rich Shumaker  —Preceding unsigned comment added by RichShumaker (talk • contribs) 23:43, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Including information about pen spinning is fine provided there are reliable sources that can be cited which define pen spinning as a category of contact juggling. Otherwise it's considered original research. Rray (talk) 23:47, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So Considering the fact that I helped define the term with help of several other thousands of people my 'original' research was not original and was not done my me only - So back in the day, We had this same discussion and it was decided then that anything that stays in contact with your body - Thus EXPANDING THE ART FORM.  By limiting the language you limit the art form. RichShumaker (talk) 23:55, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's all well and good, but it's original research unless you provide references to reliable sources. You don't get to add information just based on your expert say-so. I'm going to add a welcome message to your talk page which will include links explaining some of this stuff for you. I hope you'll take the time to read it and become a valued contributor here. A really good starting place might be Wikipedia:Verifiability :) Rray (talk) 23:58, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pen spinning....  

message: Contact juggling is a term created by James Ernest and is the title of his book that was the first mass teaching / introduction to this art form.  Michael Moschen does not 'like', appreciate, recognize this term as seen by his actions of almost boycotting the IJA festival when 'Contact Juggling' was reviewed by Juggle Magazine.  He also spoke out against the book during his speech to the convention goers.(transcripts and video tapes are not publically available, the IJA records all of their events so they should still have this footage)<BR>
Exerpt from the Foreward 'Contact Juggling' by James Ernest - I am indebted to the Society for Creative Anachronism for providing me with an audience whenever I've wanted to perform, and to Michael Moschen, whose contirbutions to the film Labyrinth first inspired me to learn contact juggling.<BR>
I am including this information because contact juggling was a teaching method started by James Ernest to allow anyone that wanted to learn what he called contact juggling.  He gave this lesson thousands of times teaching people all over the United States of America.  He credits as mentioned in the previous paragraph Labyrinth (film) for inspiring him to learn.  Since Mr. Moschen never showed James directly James created his own methodology to teach.  As students learned they created new and unique styles and moves unattributable to Mr. Moschen.<BR>
Don't get me wrong without Michael Moschen I do not believe contact juggling would exist in it's modern form.  He has brought together several non related disciplines under one roof.  With a simple rule 'No Throws' he led himself(Mr. Moschen) on a journey.  Just remember that 4 ball pyramids, isolations, body rolling have all existed and were being done before Michael Moschen was on this planet.  Michael Moschen's genius lay in his ability to take existing objects and styles and fuse them into a modern form of dance and art.<BR>
Where did it exist before Moschen? - Camelbacking on the Louisana Bayou, Harlem Globetrotters Raz Ma Taz Show, Baoding Balls, Tai Chi with Ball, also with the amazing jugglers that came before Michael Moschen such as Francis Brunn and Paul Cinquevalli.  Mr. Moschen and people that support his argument don't want anyone doing his routine, tricks, or use his prop, lighting or costuming.  This is a broad concept and would be very unrealistic and counter productive to the art of juggling.  I equate this with a painter saying you can't use my brush, my paint, or my techniques.  Where would art be as a whole if we could not emulate, mutate, expand and grow.  The main idea is to create new and different ways to move and dance with a ball or balls, or for that matter any prop.  Copying anyones entire routine is paramount to theft as a routine can clearly be copyrighted  --RichShumaker (talk) 00:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro and History 

message: What is the "ill fated competition"? gujamin 19:05, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Competition? 

message: Sphereplay(tm) is a trademark of Try Out Toys Entertainment - http://www.tryouttoys.com
:The talk page is for discussion of the article. I'm not sure what the point of these sections on the talk page are? Rray (talk) 04:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The main page has an error.  So I thought the place to discuss that error is on the discussion page.  Spherplay is trademarked and as such should have the trademark symbol(tm) - I would have changed it myself didn't know if it first needed to be discussed.--RichShumaker (talk) 02:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to make it clear how all the stuff you just added to the talk page applies to the article, instead of just posting a lot of random facts and links. Rray (talk) 04:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gotcha - This specific note is for clarification and correction on the main page.  I can easily add TM to the Sphereplay(tm) - also notice the capitalization.  One of the reasons I didn't add it is because of the confusion I had with Contact Juggling.  The other notes either directly deal with contact juggling of the past or near past.  I am trying to help someone fill in more information on the main page of the wikipedia.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names 

message: Ray Bowers Site - http://www.bowers.com/contact_juggling/index.html
--RichShumaker (talk) 03:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I put this note in for historical reasons.  When I showed up on the internet CJ scene this was the first and only site of the time that had a CJ lesson on it.  This information is on the discussion page to help someone who has gotz the engliz skilz to write a more complete wikipedia article on CJ(contact juggling).--RichShumaker (talk) 23:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Online Lesson 

message: Rich Shumaker's first lesson from James Ernest<BR>
http://www.contactjuggling.com/lessonone.php
--RichShumaker (talk) 03:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Again I don't gotz the engliz skilz unless you are talking about bad ones.  So I put this note here.  I was first taught CJ by James Ernest(the book the name yada yada) and this is the lesson he gave me(with some added pointers that were gained over time).  I actually don't give this lesson anymore except as a historical perspective of how contact juggling got started.  The roots as it were.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  My First Lesson 

message: Yahoo Forum - Archive available at http://www.contactjuggling.org<BR>
The mention to Yahoo is made on the wiki page I just wanted to note that you can get the archive of those discussions somewhere--RichShumaker (talk) 03:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Online Meeting Place 

message: These listings are in Cronological Order - Release dates needed<BR>
Book - Contact Juggling by James Ernest 2nd Edition - 1991 - Currently out of press in the US - available in UK(company needed)<BR>
TV - PBS Great Performance Series - In Motion with Moschen - First Aired 1991<BR>
Video - The Art of Contact Juggling by David Pennington<BR>
Video - Contact Juggling by Greg Maldonado and Owen Edson - Released 2001<BR>
Video - Sphereplay(tm) Art of the Sphere by Try Out Toys Entertainment - Released 2001<BR>
Video - Contact Juggling Part 2 by Greg Maldonado and Owen Edson<BR>
Video - Playing in the Multisphere - Try Out Toys Entertainment and Bob Hughes Company - Filmed Jan. 2004 Released 2006<BR>
Video - The Visual Encyclopedia of Contact Juggling Vol. 1 to 4 by Matt Olsen<BR>
Book - Multiball Contact by Drew Batchelor - published 2007<BR>
Not a complete list but a list of what I have come across so far --RichShumaker (talk) 03:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been asked and it has been asked in the past - Where can I see that - How can I learn that - So here is a 'not so complete' list of available things about CJ.  I would like this added and expanded on the main wikipedia page except I don't know if that is acceptable standards and my engliz skilz aren't the best.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books Videos and More about Contact Juggling 

message: CJC 01-02-03 Location - Florida - More Details Needed<BR>
BCJC 03 - Location - Scotland<BR>
There have also been Sphereplay(tm) Days and Spherecamps --RichShumaker (talk) 03:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: More CJ history - the main wikipedia page mentions BCJC 2003 and does not mention the 3 in the US or any of the Sphereplay(tm) day's or camps.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contact Juggling Conventions 

message: As so many people have put it so eliquently to me(Rich Shumaker) over the years 'Contact Juggling is not Juggling'<BR>
'Contact Juggling' is a term coined by James Ernest in his book to describe a style of juggling in which the prop stay in contact with the body and is not thrown.  In his book balls are the specific prop most used but it is not limited by the book to just balls.  In fact a section of the book deals with extending your arms with props to roll a ball on.<BR>
Jugglers have been 'annoyed' by this art form for many years.  Leading contact juggling to be the #1 MAQ(Most Annoying Questions) for Jugglers http://www.juggling.org/~conway/juggler/MAQ.html<BR>
While this is a humourous perspective this humor underlies the general sentiment in the United States towards contact jugglers for the 1990's.<BR>
More research into the archives of the rec.juggling list are needed for the 1996 discussions on contact juggling where the concept of 'unique' tricks 'unique' props and derivative works are discussed at length.<BR>
The general overall idea is that using the same props and moves in new and inventive ways is good.  Copying or almost copying someones routine is NOT ALRIGHT.--RichShumaker (talk) 03:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is for the section dealing with the controversy of CJ with jugglers.  Many jugglers in the 90's had a great disdain for contact juggling.  So going to your local juggling club in the US would bring the looks and at conventions no accommodation's were made and people would often give you sneering looks or openly criticize you for just doing the art form at all.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (Mention of this is in the wikipedia article)This all stems from the Michael Moschen speach at the IJA convention in the early 90's.  Moschen was being honored for a lifetime of achievement as a juggler(and rightfully so) and he became upset during his speach over his displeasure of the book 'Contact Juggling' by James Ernests.  This created a rift and what I call fall out.  In recent Q & A sessions(2005) Moschen has not been very happy when the term contact juggling has come up.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juggling VS Contact Juggling 

message: Why does Fushigi ball redirect here when the phrase is not mentioned on the page?  Shouldn't we have a reason why a phrase redirects?   Something like "Among many props used in contact juggling, the crystal orb, often of lucite, glass, or other plastics, is the most popular.   Some refer to the orb as a Fushigi ball"... or whatever?
This could mention also the Sphereplay thing referred to above, which appears to have been removed from the page at my last reading.--Mwexler (talk) 17:42, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Fushigi Redirect

message: This link http://vimeo.com/30212822, video doesn't play, guess it's been taken off. See section Contact Juggling community,  ABOUT:MANIPULATION carries the link. Not sure what to do with it. Manytexts (talk) 08:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doesn't play