Talk:Pancho Villa

message: For the sake of consistency across the Wikipedia encyclopedias, I have adjusted the date of birth from 1877 to 1878. Although I'm aware that the exact date of his birth is under debate, the general consensus seems to be that 1878 is the correct year. This discussion page brought up the birth date back in 2005, but not much explanation was given for the reason behind the two birth years in the article. If anyone strongly opposes this edit, feel free to revert the year back to 1877, but in the meantime, I'll try to browse some Spanish language (and more specifically, Mexican) sources to try to find a good source to quote for the birth date. .cosme. (talk) 14:27, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Year of Birth

message: I always see these punctuated slightly differently, but I'm rather certain that they weren't delivered in a deadpan. Isn't an exclamation point due? --65.0.255.37 18:00, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dying Words 

message: I have deleted a paragraph which alluded, without mention of any supporting evidence, to a spurious "theory" that Villa's father was a Jewish businessman from Cleveland.  Furthermore, the paragraph in question gave names of several purported descendants of this person without explaining their relevance (if any) to the subject at hand.  The deleted paragraph follows:
-->"Another theory of his ancestry was that he was the illigitimate son of Consuelo Lopez Arumbula and Toby Dubinsky, a Jewish immigrant from Czarist Russia, who briefly visited Mexico on business and later relocated to Cleveland, Ohio, in the United States, where he married Ruth Braun and had sons Timothy, Israel (Serrol), Albert, and Sydney."<--
If the authors of the aforementioned paragraph believe that there is any truthfulness in their assertions, they should submit, for public perusal and approval, evidence, documentation and/or references that would substantiate their account.
-Speleo
Perhaps this isn't true, but you might want to check the following Pancho Villa site:
http://www.ojinaga.com/villa/
and then check out a book they talk about regarding Villa's Jewish roots. Lots of research -
BRAND NEW BOOK SHOWS THAT VILLA MAY HAVE BEEN JEWISH! CLICK HERE 
http://www.ojinaga.com/osorio/
- just check it out -- Nancy
"This was the only attack on the continental United States by a foreign government or foreigner in modern times."
I removed this sentence. I think someone else attacked the US as well a few years ago. --Mixcoatl 22:51, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsupported Allegations Regarding Villa's Family Origins 

message: Somebody had added "Napoleon Dynamite" under Antonio Banderas under the list of actors who had portrayed Villa, and added something along the lines of "ima cool farmer from kansas" under the quotes. Fixed.
~Atog
:Now who in the world would put that in?Iceberg2229 00:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Took Out Some Vandalism 

message: The beginning of the Mexican Revolution go back to the time of Porfirio Diaz. Pacho Villa was one of the persons who started the Revolution, after being recruited by Madero.
WRONG PHOTO!
Photo supposedly showing "Francisco Villa as a child" is of Agustín Villa Corral, Pancho and Luz Corral's eldest son.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richmx2 (talk • contribs) 02:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  .  G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 18:54, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs MORE Work

message: There are some incomprehensible sentences near the beginning:
"There one of the owners of the property attempted against its older sister, and Villa hurt it of three shots, fleeing to the mount to avoid his punishment. He ran away and there join into the Gang of Francisco Villa a former cattle rustler, at his dead Doroteo take his name and his fame."
Attempted what? "its older sister" means what? "hurt it of three shots" means "hurt him with three shots," perhaps? "the mount" may mean "the mountains" but a mount can be a horse so maybe he fled on a horse. "At his dead" means "at his death?"
Probably needs better translation from Spanish
Pdn 21:22, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs Work

message: Some important facts to remember when trying to understand the Columbus attack:
1) Wilson never sided with the federalist forces. He always supported the revolutionaries. In the fall of 1915 with the First World War making it necessary for the US to have clear conditions in Mexico, Wilson decided to recognize Carranza as the de-facto President of Mexico. The decision making process that led to this is hotly debated. It seems that the State Department head of the Latin American desk, Leon Canova, who hated Villa, pushed for Carranza's recognition (See Katz' article on Columbus). Villa, who was taken by complete surprise, was furious. However, the attack on Columbus might have been a calculated move on his part to cause an intervention which he hoped would rally the Mexican masses under his flag against the Americans.
2)The fact that German weapons were used in Mexico have nothing obvious to do with a conspiracy. The 7mm Mauser was the weapon of choice, widely available and cheap. However, sourcing these weapons required contacts between German arms dealers and the Mexican revolutionaries.  Hans Tauscher and Felix Sommerfeld are the best known, both were German secret agents in World War I. In Mexico, the Mauser dealer was Guillermo Bach who worked closely with Paul von Hintze, the German ambassador in Mexico until 1914 and head of the German naval intelligence.
3) Lastly, the death of Huerta might or might not have resulted from natural causes. He was arrested by American authorities in 1915 when he tried to enter Mexico and fight to restore his dictatorship. He was financed by money from Germany supplied through Franz von Rintelen and Franz von Papen. After his arrest he was incarcerated at Fort Bliss where he became sick. The American government released him and he recovered his health. Then they arrested him again and he died. Very murky circumstances that could point to some kind of poisoning. No research has uncovered the facts yet.60.247.107.98 (talk) 23:22, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Re: Comments?

message: What in the world is that supposed to mean? 68.118.193.44 10:59, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Chinese extraction" 

message: An emailed question, being posted on behalf of someone who is having trouble posting. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 20:46, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Colombian origin?

message: The external link to a Tuscon newspaper editorial about Pancho's statue in Tucson does not work.  I have searched the newspaper's archives for 2003 and 2004 and turned up nothing.  The link needs to be corrected or removed. Jm546 21:55, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad link to editorial 

message: According to  treasure and metal detecting magazines, such as Lost Treasure, he has literally buried/cached several gold and silver items worth @ least $20 Billion in several places in Mexico. Martial Law 20:19, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: These magazines may be found in metal detecting dealerships, online. Martial Law 20:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Please note that this page isn't for discussing your theories about Pancho Villa, but for discussing ways to improve the article. Unless you have information from reliable sources, I don't think that this is appropriate for the article. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Buried Treasures

message: Should the source info really be in the first section?  I think it should be moved to the bottom. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.168.173.170 (talk) 06:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source info in first section? 

message: This statement was added by User:64.113.172.14 on March 21, 2007. The referenced URL, Villa's Raid on Columbus, New Mexico makes no mention of such a purchase. Instead, there is a paragraph about alleged arms purchases that were reneged. Recommend deletion. Ronbo76 11:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potential fact error introduced - ''due to defective bullets Purchased from the United States'' 

message: Insert formula here —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Markmrf (talk • contribs) 22:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia has two pancho villa pages 

message: I find two pages on Pancho Villa under two different URL's. Also I don't think Pancho Villa was in the Vietnam war and I'm pretty sure he didn't drive a pink pickup truck or found the Yamaha Motorcycle company.  
Markmrf 22:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  two pages on Pancho Villa 

message: I guess the article is better off referring to what it is address to now inspite that there's another person who goes by the same name. The one here is the original to wear that monicker. FoxLad 04:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I'll add redirects from Doroteo Arango Arámbula and Doroteo Arangoalready done by someone else to this article. --barneca (talk) 14:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article 

message: My father has always told me that he was a Yaqui.  Perhaps someone out there can verify this...--Amedeo Felix 17:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yaqui 

message: I've been looking at the article, and it needs some cleanup. It discusses mainly the political problems of the time instead of the life of Pancho Villa like it should. Otherwise me might as well rename the article.Iceberg2229 00:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: i took out the trivia section because it did not contain references. Iceberg2229 00:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  huh? 

message: "Villa's remarkable generalship and recruiting appeal, combined with ingenious fundraising methods to support his rebellion, would be a key factor in forcing Huerta from office a little over a year later, on July 15, 1914."
"The loss of Zacatecas in June 1914 broke the back of the Huerta regime, and Huerta left for exile on July 14, 1914."
Obviously, these can't both be right. --69.7.37.69 (talk) 07:50, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflicting information 

message: Google seems fairly evenly divided between 20 June, 20 July and 23 July.  Can anyone convince me which one is correct?  --  JackofOz (talk) 13:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Date of death

message: I removed a reference to a "Sam Buckhalter" who doesn't appear elsewhere on wikipedia or return any google results besides those that are directly quoting the text of this article. If it isn't outright vandalism, Mr. Buckhalter doesn't seem significant enough to warrant a mention. 
I also wonder how people feel about the lead to this article. It seems a little messy and I don't think it gives a good overview of Villa's life and significance. What do others think? Does it need a re-write?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afamiglietti (talk • contribs) 14:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed possible vandalism/Lead needs clean-up? 

message: Just finished watching an episode of QI and at the end of the show Stephen Fry ended with a quote of Pancho's last words, apparently they are "Don't let it end like this, tell them I said something" Perhaps if these last words can be cited they could be mentioned in the article, as it is quite a nice little story RohypnolFTW (talk) 20:39, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Last Words

message: According to Eric Foner's History Textbook Give Me Liberty!: An American History, Volume 2, 2nd edition, page 724, over 10,000 troops were sent into Northern Mexico, not 6,000.
--75.48.22.63 (talk) 04:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Hunt for Pancho Villa; number discrepency 

message: The image :File:Rangers1915.JPG is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --10:15, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with File:Rangers1915.JPG

message: In his own version of his life at the age of 16 he shot an older man, the son of a big landowner, who had tried to rape Pancho's younger 
 sister Martina. After this, being pursued for murder, he escaped. (This version is debunked - see Jeff Howell at References below.)
This statement makes it seem like Jeff Howell discredited the entire story while in the article it states
 Historians are divided over the actual events that occurred in 1894. The story goes that Doroteo, age 16, shot Agustín López  Negrete 
 for trying to rape Doroteo's sister Martina. Surprisingly, Negrete did not order Doroteo arrested or killed. Villa scholar, Friedrich 
 Katz, questioned this train of events because when Doroteo, now Francisco Villa, was arrested in 1898, the charges brought were mule and 
 gun theft, not the attempted murder of a wealthy hacendado.
I dont know if its important but ive seen editors fight over less important things in smaller articles. Sorry if im wrong or my statements make no sense. Take care.--99.186.19.2 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The whole shot a rapist thing

message: Recommend removing sentances quoted below found in the Introduction portion:
"He is believed to be gay, and while visiting Mission, Texas during spring break, he met a man named Alex Reguera, who happened to be metro. They had 43 kids, who are illegally living in the United States."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MTC03 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Vandalism 

message: He lost the battle of Columbus, whereas this pages says that he won. I don't know who put that in and then acknowledged that Wikipedia's article on the battle disputes it, but I'm changing it. J1.grammar natz (talk) 02:06, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Columbus

message: Who wrote, owns and prevents accuracy in this fantasy article about a man who is simply known as "El Bandito" in my areas in Yucatan and the neighboring states? This is shameful. I am sure soon Wikipedia will carry articles about other "international heroes" like Chingiz Khan and Attila the Hun as well, now that Pancho Villa is a revolutionary hero!!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:1383:8B32:21F:5BFF:FEE9:91AA (talk) 23:52, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Who owns this fantasy article on El Bandito?

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Support the common, popular, and famous English name should be used (at least in this case). Flamarande (talk) 09:33, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: This may be irrelevant and seem like a big fat lie, but my great-grandmother was Micaela Arambula's best friend, believe it or not. Sirius85 (talk) 23:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Connected

message: I changed the name of his birthplace from "Rancho de la Loyotada" to "Rancho de la Coyotada".  It appears that the error comes from p. 58 of Frank McLynn's book, which is cited.  You can see it in Google Books searching "Rancho de la Loyotada".  La Coyotada is about 50 miles NNE of Victoria de Durango.  --Kenatipo (talk) 17:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the reference from McLynn's book to one from Katz's book.  --Kenatipo (talk) 20:31, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of birthplace 

message: I have referenced and corrected this brief passage. The idea that Villa survived long enough to deliver any last words is remarkably pervasive. Unfortunately I can't say exactly when the story originated, but there is certainly no contemporary reference to it, and Villa's biographer, Katz, confirms he died instantly.Mikedash (talk) 10:07, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Source? Katz cites several for pretty much instantaneous death. Mikedash (talk) 15:27, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Supposed last words 

message: The famous photo of Pancho Villa and Pershing at Ft. Bliss needs a correction.   Recent research into those who participated in the Punitive Expedition has shown that the person in the background is not George S. Patton but is, instead James Lawton Collins, an aide to Pershing.    Here is the citation: http://www.desertexposure.com/201101/201101_tw-pershing.php     Drewonimo (talk) 00:47, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This may be true but I think we need a somewhat more reliable source to back it up. Is there a recent academic article or a book on this somewhere? Volunteer Marek  01:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo of Pancho Villa and Gen. Pershing correction 

message: According to the page on the Battle of Columbus, it was a disastrous defeat for Villa, not a victory. I'm revising it from "won" to "lost" in the list of battles here. 206.208.105.129 (talk) 18:17, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What gives? Mike Rosoft, why did you revert that edit with no explanation or discussion? The Battle of Columbus page still lists the battle as a defeat for Villa, so why list it as a victory for him here? 206.208.105.129 (talk) 19:37, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Thanks, Mike. 206.208.105.129 (talk) 12:52, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battle of Columbus 

message: "A plausible explanation of any Villa-German contacts after 1915 would be that they were a futile extension of increasingly desperate German diplomatic efforts and Villista PIPE DREAMS of victory as progress of their respective wars bogged down. Villa effectively did not have anything useful to offer in exchange for German help at that point." 
 Could have been; "Villistas dwindling odds", "Villistas decreased chances", any number of less derogatory or insulting things.....
Sort of capitalised what I meant there, and the statement could very well be true, but I thought Wikipedia was supposed to be objective? I wouldn't care so much, but even the president has quoted straight from Wikipedia last year at his medal of honour presentation I know for a fact, I was looking up people as he was reading his prompter and followed him word for word...
Not to be hyper critical that line up there just jumped out as insulting, belittling, more like propaganda than an objective take on history... You don't like Mexicans fine, but insulting them doesn't make you look any better or justify treatment of them past or present even to us "Americans".... (just wondering the point?) JohnJacobJingleheimerShmidt (talk) 01:00, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article seems to reflect authers personal opinion... 

message: It might be interesting to add something about his politics, like what kind of revolutionary vision or program he projected. Don't know how much it's mentioned in the rest of the article Dudanotak (talk) 03:09, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Politics 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Pancho Villa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20101202041129/http://www.dallasnews.com:80/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/030908dntexvilla.3c17a58.html to http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/030908dntexvilla.3c17a58.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 21:32, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I mostly tweaked the wording for readability. I also cut out a lengthy block of text beginning the War With Huerta section since it did nothing but recap the last paragraphs of the previous section. I'll be back later to work on it some more. Hope this meets with approval. SereneRain (talk) 01:27, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent Edits 

message: Substituted at 02:13, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I have found no fewer than ten bad citations. They point to Hickman, Kennedy. "Pancho Villa: Mexican Revolutionary", currently numbered FN 11. In most instances, the text is not supported by the cited source. I am removing as many bad citations as I can find. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 10:14, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There are about 55 citations referring to the Hickman article. This source contains about nine paragraphs. It looks like these citations were used to cover up original research. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 11:07, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

text: I have gone through and updated a number of citations that referred to the Hickman article, most the information I did find appropriate sources and in some places I have updated the article in line with better sources. DoingItForTheCredit (talk) 05:26, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Do the new better citations mean that User:Oldsanfelipe's tag of original research should be deleted? Articles with lots of tags warn people off from reading them, so if that tag can be removed, that would be good.  BTW It would also be good if Oldsanfeliope would set up a user page in addition to registering his/her/their username.Amuseclio (talk) 20:28, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Bad citations

message: I removed the translation of Quinta Luz as 'Fifth Light'. In this context quinta means a country house or villa and Luz was his wife's name so the correct translation is 'Luz's Villa' or 'Villa Luz'. I tried to search for the etymology of quinta and it seems it comes from country farms rented out to sharecroppers who would pay one fifth of their crops as rent. Later the word came to denote a large country or farm house. See e.g. .188.76.175.230 (talk) 18:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quinta Luz 

message: Masacro pueblos enteros de personas inocentes, mató niños, violo mujeres y niñas, entre muchas atrocidades que están documentadas pero que preferimos olvidar por conservar héroes inmaculados.
Agreguenlo le daría mayor contexto a su biografia 177.239.94.72 (talk) 07:51, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sus crimenes 

message: I think the Spanish pronunciation given should be [ˈbiʝa], with the voiced palatal fricative /ʝ/, as that is the Mexican pronunciation. Check Mexican Spanish. 200.68.168.35 (talk) 19:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation