Talk:Sati (practice)/Archive 2

message: I don't think enough weight has been given to the fact that suttee was very rarely practiced and judging by even european numbers, the numbers are probably far less than just regular murders or suicides. Furthermore, the practice was limited to the upperclass, who by all accounts, are a minority in India. the practice was also largely non-existant in the south. India is a big country, and many regions are far more diverse, culturally, linguistically, and religiously than among most European countries. To say that sati was widespread all over india would be to say that in the 20th century, Jews were persecuted by all Europeans, rather than just in Germany and Eastern Europe. 
There is also the theory that the practice of suttee actually intensified during the muslim invasions and occupations because Widows were frequently targetted for abuse and remarriage by muslims, atleast the early arab conquerors. I am not sure of the veracity of this claim, anyone else with any other valid information?
I have not changed anything yet, but I plan to and would like to discuss it first. sganjam 21:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article does provide some figures, (those referenced figures that I was able to find) and draws conclusions from them. The article does not say that it was always practised everywhere. But the indications are that it was well known in Vijayanagar, even if not necessarily common there. The claim that it was almost unknown in the south seems to be true only of the period after the 17th century. If you find reliable references, please feel free to add and quote them.   Imc 21:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Extent to which suttee was practiced 

message: I'm a bit puzzled about the parallel made to Scandinavia. I've heard of a single account from Viking Scandinavia which describes the death of a slave girl on her master's funeral pyre. However, the ritual seems to have been rather different since it involved her having intercourse with her master's kin / friends and her throat was slit before the fire was started, so she wasn't burned alive. The cases are related but I'm not sure the parallel is completely accurate. Thoughts anyone? Valentinian (talk) 09:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In the absence of any other references, I'm removing Scandinavia, and also China et.c.. Some of these may be valid entries for the sati article  - ritual death of the widow at her husband's funeral, but needs some references. But death of slaves or others is not sati as it is generally understood. Imc 22:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parallel in Scandinavia? 

message: The Yallajeeyam written by Yallabhatt(18 c AD?)contains the detailed manual /practical guide to performing Sati ritual.
Here are some passages from 'Yallajeeyam' ('Dharmasastra concerning BrahmaMedha'(Death and Afterwards) Codified by Yalla Bhatta)(The book was a 1992 reprint in Telugu from Machilipatnam) :
1.In order to enable the departed soul of the father reach its intended destination(s), his son and others should bathe and worship the Brahmins before making the 'dasa-daana'( ten gifts /presents):
1.Heaven(Swargaloka)by donating   Cow+Land +Gold
2.Apsarasa-loka >                Maid-servants(daasi-daanam)
3.Reduction in Sins>             Sesame seeds
4.Pleasures of Indra-loka&
  Swarga -loka>                  Bed/Mattress        
5 Heaven (Swarga-phalam)>        Ghee/Clarified Butter
6.Moon (Chandraloka)>            Cloth
7.Heaven(Swargaloka nimittam)>   Grains
8.Indraloka Pleasures>           Bedstead with Mattress                        
2 When a devout wife commits (sati)saha-gamana following her husband's death, she gains 30050000 (30.05 million)years of heaven-time for herself as well as her husband.
  One who commits sati saves her husband from the vilest of sins he might have commited.
  Only the Pativrata can commit sati.exceptions are: The pregnant woman, the suckling mother,  woman of loose  morals.
  A Pativrata Woman of any varna can commit sati.  She should take a bath and clean herself.Separate 'mantras' need not not be recited.The   samskara ' being performed for the husband is sufficient for her.
  The procedure for Brahmamedha is the same as that laid out for Pitr-medha. However, after performing the homa with the 'pareyuvaagamsa'-mantra,complete the ten homas beginning with 'brahmana-eka hota' , say "bhartaasarbhriyamaanah",consult with the dead(pretaanu-mantranam),
say 'iyam-naari'(here is your woman), say 'sayaneendrasya'(here she lies down -beside you).
The widow should be laid next to her dead husband(she is called the 'preta-patni') 
say 'suvarnaam gharmam devasyatvaa'and place the vessel made of gold on her  two hands, say 'suvarnamgharmam' and place it on her face, say 'brahmendramagnim' -on her eyes, say 'satamniyutah' -the ears, 'suvarnamkosham'- the right nostril, 'indroraajah'- the left nostril,
say the sentences beginning 'agniryajurrbhih'and place all the gold vessels on all parts of her body.All other remain vessels of gold should be placed on the pyre...  say "mainamagne jyotishateebhih" and set the pyre on fire.
conclude with 'sooryamtechakshuh','ajobhagah asahota' pour clarified butter 'Yaetasya 'prayasaayaswaahaa' pour more oil, follow the mantras:'praketunaa harigim harantam','asmanwateeh'-'apyaayasya' jump the pits,'dwayam tamasaspari taranirviswa' for the sun to settle, bathe after saying-'dhaatutustwa'.The rest of the procedure is as per 'pitr-medha'-rituals .
:I removed the above passage which had been inserted into the main article. The passage appears to be the same that was quoted on the Indology Yahoo news group last November  and would probably be better posted as a simple reference. Given that the source appears to be a Telugu book to which I cannot find any other references, I am replacing it with a simple reference to the Indology posting. (I'm having trouble formatting it in the article.) Imc 21:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I've added a little bit to the reference. This is probably sufficient in this situation, the article is already longer than recommended. Imc 22:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yalla Bhatt's Yallajeeyam

message: The Sanskrit word satī in Devanagari is सती. Anyone who wants to add it, just cut & paste. Khirad 01:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Devanagari

message: Just so that everyone knows, if anything in this article happens to have a chance to be cited from www.hindunet.org/wwwboard/mandir_manthan/messages/381.html 
Then please remove material from that site. The cite is made from someone who probably isnt Hindu, and is also probably insecure. Nearly all of the information from that cite is opinion. If there isnt any connection between the two definitions, then just dicount this comment.Hornet101 23:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem Website 

message: Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
*Support as nominator. —  AjaxSmack   05:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey