Talk:Personal life of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

message: Relevant? http://www.nerve.com/PersonalEssays/Cook/StarFirsts/index.asp?page=Gabor.asp
:—168.103.218.84 (talk) 13:08, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

message: As to Ataturk's drinking, he was known to enjoy frequent and extravagant parties. Drinking was never mentioned to me.
Well, he died from cirrhosis. That indicates heavy drinking.
Atatürk had romantic associations with women.  In at least one case, this resulted in the birth of a son, who I knew.  His son looked very much like Atatürk and not his adoptive father. Saltysailor (talk) 08:50, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some Comments, based on primary source material not usable in Wikipedia

message: The tone of this article is not neutral.  In particular, in describing the fighting in the west, justification is made by accusing the Greeks of killing Turks, while nothing is said of the killings by Turks of Greeks to the war of independence.  Both sides were guilty of what we now call war crimes.   I have always found it interesting that I can not find any documentation about Atatürk's involvement in actions against Armenians. While Ataturk was a great man who helped Turkey survive as a state, there is nothing about the pain and suffering caused, mostly to minorities.  Saltysailor (talk) 09:00, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not Neutral 

message: "He authored the chapter in "Islamic History" himself when he wanted history books for high schools prepared"; I believe "wanted" in this sentence is a bad translation from turkish and should be instead "when he asked for books" Pauloya (talk) 20:17, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wanted/Asked for 

message: Why didn't anyone asked for Good Article Review for this article? --TarikAkin (talk) 14:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article Candidate!!! 

message: With all due respect to the sensibilities of contemporary Turkey and Turks, this article reads like a hagiography, a worshipful biography. I've read elsewhere that Ataturk died from cirrhosis of the liver, indicating alcoholism barely touched on. It seems to this reader (and occasional minor editor) that this article falls far short of a Good Article Review. 
Tapered (talk) 07:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The article does mention that "he was diagnosed with cirrhosis of the liver", listing it as the cause of death, as well as that "Alcohol consumption ... had been his way of life".  --Lambiam 22:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Hagiography

message: I'm more interested to know why the article lies about his religious beliefs. It asserts that "In his speeches and publications there is no trace connoting hostility or even indifference toward religious ideology". What about this quote; "I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.101.226 (talk) 02:43, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that he himself was not fond of religion but he understood that people wanted/needed it, so he treated religion as a tool. A bit like U.S. presidents of today. --Adoniscik(t, c) 03:04, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious beliefs 

message: This article alleges that the house in Salonica commonly thought to be his birth place was in fact his father-in-law Ragıp bey's house. If anybody has done some research into this, please incorporate your findings into the article. --Adoniscik(t, c) 23:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where was he born? 

message: "On November 24, 1934, Gazi Mustafa Kemal requested the "Öz" as his last name, but the GNAT with a special law bestowed on "Mustafa Kemal Öz" the surname "Atatürk".[4] "  This is the most funniest translation I've heard in my entire life. The law clearly says he took the surname Atatürk with his Kemal first name. The öz means that his real and first name is Kemal. I am correcting the translation mistake. --Pusat (talk) 12:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Funny translation 

message: Why does it say Kamâl rather than Kemal on his ID? More Kamâl examples—and possibly even an explanation (in Turkish though which I don't understand)—here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.41.34.154 (talk • contribs) 17:27, 17 October 2010
:The article linked above basically says Kamâl was consciously introduced (and not as a result of a typo) as a Turkic alternative (I'd interpret it as a faux Turkic word though, as that â sound is totally absent from Turkic languages) to Kemal (a loan from Arabic) during the days of language reform. - Vidimian (talk) 15:38, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kamâl 

message: "Atatürk's precise birth date is not known. This confusion is more a reflection of dating differences between calendars of the period rather than any uncertainty on the part of Atatürk, his family or other factors."
His family has to have been confused. If they were not confused, there would be no confusion. How can they know and we not? What is this, some agreement among biographers to be confused without talking to the family? Fixing the English here.Dave (talk) 12:56, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Confusion

message: I for one would like to know exactly where that number comes from. Who recorded that? No one seems to know or if they do they are not saying. About the best I can get is "entered". Who entered, where, why? Some articles on WP and on the Internet are saying that in 1881 those primitive Ottomans, well, they didn't know enough to keep records. This is before the great scientific advancement of keeping birth and death records in the good old days when people less sophisticated and wise than we are (especially adolescents) hadn't faced all the problems we face or come up with any of our modern solutions. This is what comes of guessing off the top of your heads. Now I find the Sultan knew very exactly who was in his empire from as early as the 1830's, when his census was instituted. There was one in fact in 1881. It recorded the populations of Thessalonika by religion and nationality. So, I have to presume that the "entry" 1296 was a bona fide public record kept as a matter of course either in some bureau of births and deaths or in the census, which happened every few years. I am going to say that. If you have knowledge of exactly who "entered" that record and what sort of record it was, perhaps you can give us the details.Dave (talk) 18:58, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The 1296

message: After 1936, this topic was discussed repeatedly. Even today, nobady knows his real birth date. If it were "by convention", if it were accepted by people, why discussions and despute are continuing ? I think that the term "convention" is not suitable for explaining this situation. Takabeg (talk) 21:07, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Birth date

message: Please, provide neutral, reliable, verifiable, academic sourced he was Muslim. All added non-Turkish sources claim he was nonbeliever. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 06:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Muslim?

message: Majority of sources agree that he was a Muslim.  would you describe your rationale here? OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 11:19, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion of Kemal 

message: I know Wikipedia is not on paper (and this page is probably split from the main article), but still I think especially the sections "Name" and "Birth Date" are unnecessarily detailed (more importantly, lacking references). It seems that they are there because every now and then, some (often anon) editor muddies the waters with often false allegations, and some people want to answer those allegations. Other sections seem to have been written with that mindset, as well. At least they have their merits.
I don't know how many Wikipedia readers make use of tables of contents, but in any case the first sections are not less important than the other sections. We can integrate the relevant information from the Name and Birth Date sections into other sections. Similar name changes appeared for many other people in that period. Also, not knowing the exact birth date was common for non-royals. Furthermore, as far as I know, he was known as Gazi Pasha before the independence war (probably because of his efforts in Galipoli defence, also he had lost his eye(sight) in Libya). On the Turkish National Assembly website, it is confirmed that he received the Gazi and Marshal titles in September 1921  Life of MKA (Turkish). 
Furthermore, the latter half of the section "Children" describes his character, and the title of the section "Love of Nature" should be changed in my opinion. Should we list his hobbies? Regarding religion, if he declared he was Muslim in the "Nutuk", then he was a full-fledged Muslim, at least at that time (1927). He lived 11 more years after the Nutuk. In that period, Elmalili Hamdi finished the tafsir commissioned by Atatürk and the national assembly. Atatürk asked for a very through tasfir with all the historical context also carefully explaining where the western tafsirs have failed (according to the Turkish wikipedia article of the tafsir Hak Dini Kur'an Dili).
I hope we can have better "Personal life" articles, at least GA level.Bulgu (talk) 22:50, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some sections are too long and too detailed 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018)