Talk:Expressionist architecture

message: Crossposted from user talk pages
He DVD, I notice we've both revived editing the Expressionist architecture article, prior to it's impending GA review. I've archived the talk BTW, because most of it was used as a scratch sheet for translations etc. - hope that's ok. I'd like some discussion about the article though if you wouldn't mind, because there's still a few fundamental things that I think we disagreed on at the time and I'd like to us reach some sort of agreement on. I've started a thread at Talk:Expressionist architecture#Taking stock. Cheers --Mcginnly | Natter 16:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Crosspost

message: I've done some digging and I think I've found the root of the problem:-
"Expressionism - a widely applicable term used since 1910 of al the arts in three main senses. (paraphrasing now)
:Type 1. A certain type of expressive emphasis found in all the arts, throughout history across the globe - examples are cited such as Dostoevsky, Strindberg, El Greco, Van Gogh.
:Type 2. All the modern movement in Germany and Austro Hungary between 1910 and 1924 which flavoured the local variants of Fauvism, Cubism and Futurism and formed the basis of both Dada and Neue Sachlichkeit. It was later extended backwards to Munch and the early works of Die Brücke. The term entered Germany through France in 1910. It's trademarks were distortion, fragmentation and the communication of violent or overstressed emotion. Pacifist and socialist political agenda etc.etc.
:Type 3.Any 20th century work of art in other countries or continents which reflect the influence of German expressionism. eg Laethem-Saint-Martin, some of the Ecole de Paris and abstract expressionism."
So firstly, with reference to the above citations:-
#Shannon Ricketts - appears to be confusing and merging type 1 expressionism with type 2. See Frampton p66 "Seen in retrospect, the Casa Mila seems to anticipate something of the ethos of the Expressionism that was soon to emerge in Central Europe." 
#Faia Wertheimer - type 1 expressionism
#Ernest E. Burden - type 2 expressionism extended backwards to include the work of Gaudi.
I'm keen to rewrite the lead to include these 3 distinctions. 
Curl elaborates further "Artistic movement in Northern Europe, especially in Germany and the Netherlands from c1905 to 1930, it was concerned in architecture not to emphasise function but to create free and powerful sculptural forms, often crystalline, sometimes sharply angular, and occasionally stalactitic." He then cites examples in the netherlands and denmark (Jensen Klint as above) and then says "In Germany, however there were several outstanding article......"
I think the article needs to be structured with a chronology that reflects the growth of the umbrella term "Expressionism" and can't really shy away from it's northern european roots - we can then deal with "later scholars broadened the term to include both works of architecture before 1910 and works outside of northern europe such as Gaudi.
Regards. --Mcginnly | Natter 22:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tweaked the lead quite a bit to reflect some of this. What do you think?--Mcginnly | Natter 02:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm confused, carry on though.  DVD+ R/W 02:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Which bit is causing the headache? --Mcginnly | Natter 02:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A RL headache. Like I said though, please carry on.  DVD+ R/W 02:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A suggestion

message: James M Richards, Nikolaus Pevsner, Dennis Sharp. The Anti-Rationalists and the Rationalists. Architectural Press. Published 2000. 
p.75
(Casa Vicens)"The Gaudi building contains the germ of all the later Expressionist developments..."
*here's another, one more in a sec.  DVD+ R/W 02:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Gaudi and expressionism 

message: DVD asked me to weigh in on this. Two first impressions:
* I think we should say very early that the term refers originally to a time-bound European movement but also more loosely to earlier and later works related to that movement by influence or even merely by resemblance, beginning at least as early as Gaudí and continuing at least as far as Frank Gehry, the latter of whom is currently not mentioned at all.
* The list of ten characteristics of expressionist architecture might be strengthened by mentioning for each characteristic an aspect of a specific building or structure that exemplifies it.
- Jmabel | Talk 17:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Jmabel - we need some wider opinions like this. I attempted some of what you suggest in the lead (I've yet to include it in the body text until we've resolved the structure) - I'm scratching out an alternative structure for discussion at Expressionist architecture/Structure redesign sandbox. --Mcginnly | Natter 18:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another county heard from 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Vorgeschichte feininger.jpg

message: Expressionist architecture: Casa Milà by Antoni Gaudi or National Museum by Douglas Cardinal? A question of taste.
In Europe Antoni Gaudi is seen as the father of Expressionist architecture (Erich Mendelsohn, Piet Kramer, ...). Leuk2 (talk) 12:28, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Gaudi and expressionism (II) 

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thread_title: File:Ronchamp 005.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Several sections don't contain inline references.Xx236 (talk) 06:06, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poorly referenced 

message: In the German article "Expressionismus (Architektur)" the second movement since the 1950s is not accepted. That's the reason, that the German user Horst-schlaemma deleted here 13 images under the title "Famous expressionist buildings since the 1950s". This English article is free to follow an international line and the 13 images are part of it. Leuk2 (talk) 13:00, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: First, such collection galleries aren't preferable for an encyclopedic. Second, this totally lacks any evidence/reference. And third, the term "expressionist" is used differently in English language and often doesn't necessarily refer to the specific style this article describes. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 12:04, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Conflict first and second movement (1920s, 1950s-)

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Recently the following group of illustrations was deleted (twice) by Horst-schlaemma. The illustrations are an essential part of the main article Expressionist architecture and should be replaced according to the following argumentations.
In Modern architecture (International Style, Expressionist- and Constructivist architecture) are three different periods of development:
1. Period 1910-1930, time of the pioneers in Europe and Russia. Few examples of the new styles are existing.
2. Period 1930-1945, time of repression of Modern architecture by the Nazi- and Stalin-regimes, economic crisis et al.
3. Period since the 1950s, time of acceptance in many countries. The International Style was successful in the US. A further development of Constructivist architecture was High-Tech. The first example of Expressionist architecture after WWII was Ronchamp by Le Corbusier, followed by famous buildings in many countries. 
Leuk2 (talk) 21:45, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear, you are totally missing the point, I'm sorry. Where did you get the (mis)information that these belong to the specific style period of expressionism in architecture? It was over in the 1930s already. And everything that followed might have been slightly inspired, but as you can see by comparing your examples to the rest of the article, they have little in common. These more contemporary examples belong somewhere else, while in recent years a certain "neo expressionism" set stage, which is something quite different. It's a revival. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 08:12, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

text: Uhm, what? I'm researching all kinds of architecture since years. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 11:39, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Famous Expressionist buildings since the 1950s

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: This page still has serious problems with a lot of statements being unsourced, almost all 'separate' sources being merely different pages of one source, and in some cases inappropriate use of the < ref > tag. Does anyone still have an active interest in this article and/or a plan to improve it? 5.151.23.56 (talk) 11:40, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poorly sourced 

message: — Assignment last updated by Berry2799 (talk) 16:05, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Writings in Architecture