Talk:Ragging

message: Can you please place this article on ragging in the section called 'abuse'?
I created this page some days ago.
thanks !!!!!
sachin
:Done! rohith 17:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Abuse

message: This article needs a lot of help, especially in the NPOV area.  Firstly, all the sources come from some sort of "anti-ragging" group, which is clearly reflected in the persuasive tone of the article.  Secondly, it seems the article should be modified to a larger, worldwide view.  Currently, it looks like it's primarily Indian-influenced. 67.142.130.38 10:24, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Major Help Needed

message: This article cites references to media reports, court orders and research reports. What else is required to remove the "unverified claims" tag?
Mohrahit 16:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article does not cite the claims in a way that incontrovertibly verifies them - there are swathes of unverified claims, synthesis & original research. I'm cleaning as I go. - Tiswas(t) 10:07, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unverified Claims?

message: Not at all the same. Fagging in the UK is being a servant (akin to a batman) to a more senior student. It may well involve abuse, but it's not the same as hazing or ragging, which is entirely for the purpose of abuse. Gordonofcartoon 19:14, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the 'also known as fagging' part from the first line, and added a line to the History section which attempts to outline the link between them. It could use some better explanation and references, however. Terraxos 05:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I read this article thinking it was entirely describing "fagging". If it is something different, the lead sentence "Ragging has a long history, and has been highlighted in literature (e.g., in Britain, Tom Brown's Schooldays" seems somewhat misplaced. Ros0709 (talk) 00:34, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fagging

message: What on earth does that mean? The only reference Google finds to this term is this Wikipedia article, suggesting it is not a very well-known term. 217.155.138.250 (talk) 14:12, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cuckoo Position? 

message: Is "ragging" the Indian-English term for "bullying"? That is the impression I get from the article.
Perhaps it can be merged into that article? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:41, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian name for "bullying"? 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110818121801/http://india.liveoncampus.com/article/7323/Ragging-in-India.html to http://india.liveoncampus.com/article/7323/Ragging-in-India.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I propose that Ragging be merged into Hazing. I think that the content in the Ragging article can easily be explained in the context of Hazing, and the Hazing article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Ragging will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. AtlasDuane (talk) 16:11, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: They appear similar, though ragging seems an on-going process between senior and junior students whereas hazing is more strictly an initiation, ie a once-only process per person, and more ritualized. They are both types of school bullying, but I suspect better as separate articles. So mildy against merging. Batternut (talk) 09:10, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've merged it, as they are one and the same. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:28, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  , , ,  I don't believe Ragging, Ragging in India, or Ragging in Sri Lanka should be merged with Hazing.  The terms have similar meanings but different histories, both going back over a century.  The term "ragging," as already noted by Shimgray () in a similar merger proposal above, was used for sadistic rituals in the British military training schools and colleges.  It has been used in Kipling for such practice in Britain, although the term is no longer used much in the UK.  The use in South Asia has that provenance.  No one in South Asia knows this meaning of "hazing," just as no one in America knows this specialist meaning of "ragging." If you want to create a new page, such as Ritual verbal and physical humiliation of new army recruits and university students and include both Hazing and Ragging in it, that would be fine, but I see little sense in redirecting "ragging" to "hazing".  Accordingly, I have removed the redirect of Ragging to Hazing.  Had it been a redirect, the OED would have said in its entry on "ragging":  see "hazing."  But it does not.  Also, in India, at least, it is the subject of Supreme Court judgments, which has declared it a human rights abuse, and of some legislation. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:53, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: PS Of course, I do see that Ragging in India and Ragging in Sri Lanka as well as Hazing are poorly written and have OR issues.  In other words, they need tags, not of mergers, but of improvement etc.  I believe the three ragging articles could be combinged into one, ie Ragging in India Sri Lanka etc redirected to Ragging, or Ragging in South Asia but feel the latter should be separate from Hazing.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:53, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: PPS As you will see, "ragging" has some academic literature noting its occurrence.  Examples: , , , , , ...  Perhaps these can be used to improve this article.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:53, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: PPPS I should add that the words themselves, "hazing" and "ragging" are examples of how verbs, haze and rag, came to be nominalized to describe specific practises (with many common features) in different Englishes, the former only in American English, the latter first in British English and later only in South Asian English (though in the last few minutes I've become aware also in Malaysian English).  Both America and South Asia, being former British colonies, have many examples of words still in use which are archaic in British English.  Examples: the AE use of "pass" to mean "die"  or the IE use of "needful" to mean "what is needed." Of course, the reverse is true as well.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:22, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder if it would be possible to dig up some more on the history of the term. Wodehouse, in his school stories written in the earliest years of the 20th century, uses the word "ragging" as well as the noun "a rag" quite a lot to mean something on the lines of "creating a disturbance", not necessarily in the form of bullying. I only know this from reading the stories, but I'm sure it must have been properly discussed somewhere. --bonadea contributions talk 12:35, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The noun rag was used well into the 50s to mean "a noisy debate or rowdy celebration, esp. as carried on in defiance of authority or discipline; (also) a boisterous prank or practical joke." (OED).  OED gives as an example: "1894   W. H. Wilkins & H. Vivian Green Bay Tree I. 275   It was the usual senseless ‘rag’ in which Pimlico and his friends were wont to indulge at their convivial gatherings."  The verb rag (in this sense) is " slang. To tease or torment; spec. (orig. University slang) to make fun of in a rough or boisterous manner; to bully; (also) to disorder (a person's room) as an act of ragging."  It doesn't have Wodehouse as an example, but it does have several others, such as "1891   Spectator 3 Jan. 3/2   The revellers went round and ‘ragged’ several men in their rooms."  Apparently, it was still being used in this sense in 2006.  Oh, I see, you are talking about Wodehouse's school stories.  Hmm.  Do you mean the ones he wrote in the schoolboy holiday annuals in the 20s and 30s? I have some in the attic.  Will have to dust them ... Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:55, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

text: And yes it is on the internet: Scott's sister, by PG Wodehouse, Greyfriars Holiday Annual 1924.  It is on page 22.  It would have saved me a trip up a rickety stairway.  But it was more fun this way.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:40, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: It is proposed, per discussion above, and consensus in Talk:Ragging_in_India#Merge_with_Hazing.3F, that the pages Ragging in India and Ragging in Sri Lanka (and any other country-specific ragging pages) be merged into Ragging.  It is felt that "Ragging," as a "practice of ritually humiliating new army recruits or university students by physical or verbal bullying" (OED) does not vary so much across the countries of  South Asia and elsewhere as to warrant country-specific pages.  Also, as the pages Ragging in India and Ragging in Sri Lanka are in need of some improvement, and Ragging is mostly a stub,  it is further felt that merging the articles into one will make the task of improvement easier.  Some of the history of the term and the practice, as outlined above in some discussions, can perhaps be more reliably added to the page.  Please comment below. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:38, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: PS I just discoved that there was another ragging page, this one even more specific, "Ragging at the Indian Institutes of Technology," which after an AfD discussion, has been redirected to Hazing.  This propsal would apply to that page as well, i.e. after consensus is reached, that page will be redirected to Ragging instead.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:50, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: PPS Pinging: , , , , , , .  I have left posts at WT:INDIA and WT:LK.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:00, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

text: As per my comments here, Ragging in India and Ragging in Sri Lanka could be resurrected to list notable incidents, similar to List of hazing deaths in the United States, if Ragging becomes too large.--Obi2canibe (talk) 11:16, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:   Since it has been two weeks and no objections have been made to the merger proposal, I will do the proposed redirects (including the ones mentioned by you) after another 24 hours, i.e. at this time tomorrow.  ()  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:43, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Noted.--Obi2canibe (talk) 20:11, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

text:  I've done the redirects.  The merges, I'm not sure how, especially the talk pages.  Do you think you could do those?  Thanks.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:23, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't do it right now, will look at it when I have time.--Obi2canibe (talk) 14:44, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

text: I support all these merges. And because it has been enough time already, I have merged the articles. There is no need to merge talk pages. Capitals00 (talk) 06:25, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.--Obi2canibe (talk) 18:05, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  New merger proposal 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Please consider incorporating material from the above draft submission into this article. Drafts are eligible for deletion after 6 months of inactivity. ~Kvng (talk) 14:47, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , thanks for doing that. I have closed the draft. ~Kvng (talk) 15:32, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Draft:MAHARASHTRA PROHIBITION OF RAGGING ACT, 1999]]

message: The sexual abuse section is really really terribly written. It quotes Quora of all things.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by WolframaticAlpha (talk • contribs) 17:56, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexual abuse