Talk:Dwyane Wade/Archive 1

message: I removed the following section, titled "Strenghts" [sic]: Wade has great court vision, wich he combines with strong, athletic and quick penetrating moves to the basket. Due to this he is able to get alot of free throws.  His dribbling skills are superbe; his fast cross-over and spinning move makes him an excellent 1 on 1 offensive player and he has developed a consistent mid range jumpshot. Wade is among the league leaders in points per game and in free throws made and attempted. [all sic] This information needs to be sourced or cited in order to be added, or it otherwise could qualify as original research. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 23:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed section

message: There's a line in the article that reads:
Wade was only the fourth player in NCAA Men's Tournament history to record a triple-double...
I believe this is incorrect, but the resources I have found on the matter are conflicting.  This says that only three players (Wade included) have done it, while this says that eight have.  I'm not sure how reliable either resource is, but I suggest the line in the article be changed to note simply that he had the triple double, and not who the other players were.
*Yes, he was only the third player in NCAA Tournament history to do so.  It is stated in his NBA player file, college background notes.  Here is the link: .  The proper edits have been made  Zodiiak 04:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You do realize you're responding to a comment that's 10 months old, right? --Maxamegalon2000 04:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't it clear that he's a Wade fan and wants to inflate his bio as much as possible. I think from his rabid defense of him it's quite apparent. NRK 07:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I never had a problem with the NCAA triple-double fact. It's listed in his NBA.com bio. While there is some conflicting evidence, I'd say it's solid enough. If you note I was not the original poster, I merely responded to someone else's post about the lenghthy delay. And I don't know where you get the "stance against him" - look below and above at my other comments where I point out that the article is relatively good and that Wade is a very good player. I'm merely working on the objectivity and I think people are a little too touchy about excluding things, but when it comes to including them, they're all for it. You're not the only one, you just happen to be more vocal about it. I don't blame you, and I don't think you're consciously trying trying to, but it can happen. NRK 17:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tournament triple double 

message: These things read like press releases from the players' agents sometimes.  We don't need to be told that he's 24 because we're previously told when he was born.  It's not encyclopedic to say that he's one of the "brightest" stars in the NBA.  We don't need the young-but-talented routine either, like I had to remove from Amare Stoudemire's article, and I'm sure it's on a dozen other articles.  If you're interested in editing sports bios, I recommend looking around for some of these cheesey intros to fix.  Duckdid 04:39, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NBA bio intros 

message: Is it okay to dubb a player a new nickname in this site?
:No.  Wikipedia only complies information that already exists and is notable.  If the nickname in question were to be dubbed outside of Wikipedia and become famous enough, it could be added to the article.  If you're interested in learning more about this concept, may I recommend as further reading the policies Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability?  Do not fret; many new users would not even bother to ask.  --Maxamegalon2000 04:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dwyane's new nickname 

message: It's my understanding that "Wade County" is not Dwyane Wade's nickname.  It surely is a nickname for Dade County (Miami's county), but is not a nickname for Wade himself --X96lee15 21:32, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wade County 

message: I probably should have started a conversation about this here earlier, and for this I apologize.  I question the appropriateness of an entire section in this article on the officiating controversy.  The existence of a controversy is verifiable and relevent, and the edit history will show that I worked to maintain its mention in this article once it was properly cited.
That being said, this is an article about Dwyane Wade, not the 2006 NBA Finals.  I thought the first paragraph, once properly cited, was approprate and asserted notability.  The second paragraph, a response to the concerns about the officiating, only cemented the inclusion of the information in my mind.  However, I'm not sure we need to quote the pieces cited as liberally as some have been, and in the grand scheme of things I don't think more than two paragraphs is warranted in an article about Wade.
On the other hand, I remember the difficulties had at the Super Bowl XL article after that game, and notice that there hasn't been any activity at 2006 NBA Finals similar to what's occurring here.  The solution was a separate article, Reaction to Officiating in Super Bowl XL.  It is for this reason that I question the good faith of editors that have been placing this information at this article.  I recommend that the officiating controversy be limited to a paragraph at this article, albeit one of sufficient size to document both sides of the argument, with the more in-depth coverage desired by some left to 2006 NBA Finals, if not Reaction to Officiating in 2006 NBA Finals. 
I just think this article isn't the place for such detail.  I've already been warned about too many reverts, so I'll wait for consensus before making any more edits.  --Maxamegalon2000 20:36, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a difference between Wade and Jordan is that Jordan's career has ended and can be looked at in retrospect to determine the most notable parts.  I think that as Wade's career progresses, the section on his most recent season will become progressively smaller, but that at the moment it is not for Wikipedia to assume as much.  I'm going to re-add a paragraph; I think it's just as notable a subject as the rest of the paragraphs in the section on the 2006 season. --Maxamegalon2000 17:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't disagree with you.  If you can find a source that asserts this tendency over the course of a season or his career, rather than just one game, then I think it does deserve mention.  --Maxamegalon2000 17:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There has been talk throughout history that every superstar from Larry Bird, to Michael Jordan, to Tim Duncan etc gets foul calls from refs. It's common for opposing fans of every team to say this, find evidence that Wade somehow stands out. I'm sure I could find hundreds of articles on the internet on superstars from Oscar Robertson to Dirk Nowitzki supposedly getting calls. Oh and the guy he was playing against has had that said about him plenty also. Quadzilla99 17:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed. I don't know of any sources off hand. I will look into it though. I do agree that it needs to be a consistent theme and not just a handful of games that people complain about. And Quadzilla, while you're right, there have been complaints, it was definitely never to the point that Wade was in my opinion. NRK 18:52, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I couldn't disagree more. Two things: First, there have been accusations of star treatment for years and years in the NBA (going back to the 1940's) it's pointless to start a section for Wade, if you do you then need to start a section for every star player in Wikipedia. I'm 100% sure I could find sources for just about any star. You also said "there have been complaints", there's been outrage over and over again from fans all over the league at the end of every playoffs. There was complete outrage by Sacramento's fans after 2002, the Spurs fans after Bowen got called for a foul on Nowitzki after game 4 (they've won championships so the complaining was a little less), Bulls fans after the Hubert Davis foul in 1994, etc. You're saying that you can't remember any is refuted by my saying I can (very clearly) and you know what? They died down. Second, technically including it in the Wade article, except in passing, is totally incorrect. Wade is not responsible for the foul calls, so it's not really about Wade. The criticism is of the NBA and it's refs the criticisms should go to the article on the NBA (start a star treatment section) or the 2006 NBA Finals article with a one sentence description linking to them in this article. Going into long detail on foul calls serve to put a little disclaimer on Wade. Trust me though if you follow basketball like I do after the playoffs are over this year assuming the Heat don't repeat the NBA will be on to it's next thing, this big thing is small compared to the hailstorm of complaining coming out of Sacramento in 2002 and I see no signs of that on the Kobe or Shaq articles.  Quadzilla99 23:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I do agree with a lot of what you said, my view on the situation is not that a certain group of fans (i.e. - Sacramento fans, Bulls fans, etc.) have mentioned it but that in general basketball fans have. I know its hard to conceptualize and even harder to put into a Wiki entry, which is why I haven't even considered editing the Wade entry. Unfortunately my opinion counts for nothing when it goes into doing Wiki entries, but my belief is that Wade's treatment has been worse/better (depending on how you're looking at it) than most of the other stars from the past 20 years (all I can really speak for). Don't even get me started on Bowen! I do however, think that a good approach to it would be in NBA star treatment. NRK 18:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said it goes into an article about the NBA with no more one sentence linking to that going here. Such as "Some fans and media members have questioned the amount of foul calls or preferential treatment Wade gets from NBA referees." Then link some some of those questions to a reaction to the 2006 NBA Finals article or even better a section in the NBA article that questions refs decisions over the years. Oh boy are you mistaken if you think this is the worst refereeing scandal in NBA history let's have a little perspective here. Quadzilla99 07:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No sorry, I should have been clear, I don't think its the worst refereeing scandal in NBA History, though thats an interesting side topic. To date, I haven't found anything extensive on Wade to be supported in his bio. Though I did discover that he's #10 all time in Free Throws Attempted /Game. Interesting.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nkowal (talk • contribs) 21:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  2006 NBA Finals controversy 

message: For example, One of five NBA players to have at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, 4 steals, 3 blocks, 5 assists and 50% shooting accuracy (10/18 field goals) in an NBA finals close-out game. is much too specific to be considered a true milestone.  They are so ridiculously convoluted that they effectively mean nothing instead of having some importance. DaBears34 02:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably.  The one you quote is, I guess, the most quantifiable way of saying Had one of the best NBA Finals-clinching performances of all time. --Maxamegalon2000 03:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aren't some of these "milestones" a bit too specific? 

message: I added the following statements to the trivia section of this article:
"Wade chose number 3 because it represents the Holy Trinity. 
He tithes 10% of his salary to a church in Chicago."
I realize that claims such as these are likely to be challenged. I'm not sure exactly how to cite sources, but I did find these comments on page 14 of "Sports Illustrated Presents Miami Heat Special Collectors Edition." JNeal 23:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number 3 

message: Okay I found some bulletproof photos for him, improved the infobox photo for him by cropping and contrasting it, sourced everything in the article per WP:Cite, incorporated the trivia section into the body of the article per WP:Trivia, copyedited it, expanded the lead section, and wikified it. It's pretty close to Good Article status now. Not bad for a day's work. Quadzilla99 02:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed.  Good job. --Maxamegalon2000 02:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Major work done

message: In order to trim down the fancruft in this article I created this page. Much as was done in the Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky articles. For two reasons: 1) the article was becoming long as it was 30 kb and he is only in his 4th year (imagine it at this pace in 10 years), and 2) User:Shudda.nz raised a good point, namely for non-basketball fans it will probably become very boring after a certain point. Anyway have a ball over there with the "only the (xth) player to average (x) and (x) and (x) for so and so number of games" stats. Don't expand the Career Achievements section in this article anymore except for really important accomplishments. Quadzilla99 07:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Dwyane Wade Career Achievements]]

message: An anon IP suggests that Wade's injuries do not count.  He jumps from section to section, making accusations, and then disappears.  I will respond to his comments here.  If the injuries keep him from playing (see ECF Game 6 in 2005), costing the Heat the game, how can you say they are fake?  Then, if he plays through the injury, it is definitely worth noting.  Since he has done this more than once, it is even more notable.  To then claim the Miami Heat cannot be the source for injury reports on Heat players shows a definite anti-Heat bias in your comments and goals, not very encyclopedic, IMO. CodeCarpenter 14:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I agree. Also his claims that there is pro-Wade bias in the article implies there are some obvious complaints about Wade we're leaving out. Being as the foul call complaints are aimed at the NBA and not Wade and people have no evidence that he is faking injuries, I don't see what we're leaving out. He is generally considered to be a good person. On the Michael Jordan page his gambling problems and his affair are mentioned. Wade hasn't had any extra-marital affairs or off the court problems. So I don't see what specific criticisms of Wade we're supposed to mention here. Quadzilla99 03:17, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wades injuries 

message: It violates the talk page guidelines to say this, as this isn't a forum but, if this really is Dwyane Wade's myspace page, I thought that people here would find it interesting that he uses Wikipedia for his biography. Not that any of that is notable for the article just interesting. Quadzilla99 05:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wade's Myspace