Talk:Middlesbrough/Archive 1

message: It used to say that Cook was born in Mbro. I can't see that this was correct as he was born in Marton at a time when Mbro hardly existed, so it sounds weird to say he was born there - no-one at the time would have seen it that way. I have corrected it with slightly clunky wording - feel free to tidy up. Nevilley 15:52, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: from Middlesbrough

message: The town and borough are the same place, jimfbleak 17:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No dispute of that but the name of the district is not "Town & Borough of Middlesborough" like City and District of St Albans it is just "Borough of Middlesborough" like Borough of Milton Keynes. MRSC 17:45, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Town & Borough 

message: I have removed an incorrect statement regarding the comparison of the size of the towns.
Measured by Urban sub-area as defined by the Office for National Statistics (which is based upon the pre-1974 local authorities):
* Middlesbrough 142,691
* Newcastle 189,863
* Sunderland 177,739
This shows that Middlesbrough is the largest town in North Yorkshire and in Teeside, but is the smallest of the three major towns in the north east. Steven J 23:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population comparison with Newcastle upon Tyne and Sunderland 

message: I have removed this derogatory term as it no longer has any relevance to Middlesbrough.  The air is much cleaner nowadays and has been known to be cleaner than most large Urban areas such as Birmingham and Manchester.  It has been known as the "Armpit of England" not so much for its pollution but more its industrial landscape.  It has also be noted as the skid mark on Britains underwear but I do not agree both are worth noting.  No matter what people say about Middlesbrough, it was one of the most important industrial Towns and greatly helped in shaping Britain tsider 1:00, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Armpit of England" 

message: Just regarding the neighbourhoods.  Some of thhose in the list arent neighbourhoods as such but are whole Villages or nowadays the Electoral wards based on the old Village parishes.  The neighbourhoods are within these and are much smaller.  Whinneybanks, Tollesby, Saltersgill and Berwick Hills are neighbourhoods whereas Acklam, Grove Hill and North Ormesby are the respective wards.  Also if Nunthorpe and Ormesby are included in the list, surely Grangetown and Southbank should be included, after all they are far more closley related to Middlesbrough than Redcar even if they are not under Middlesbrough Council! tsider 24:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NEIGHBOURHOODS 

message: The statement "Six Bend Trap is the first ever feature film made in the Middlesbrough area" is out-dated and not true.  There have been other feature films made in Middlesbrough, including Bacon-Based Bastards, Sub Zero and Gangsters In Love.  There is some truth in the statement however.  Six Blend Trap is the first feature film to be shot in the area using HD-TV cameras.
--Joe 01:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FILM 

message: Norf n Lights are an entertainer in the city.  Fine, they can be listed with the other entertainers, but the extra section on them alone is inappropriate.  Two entries in the External Links is probably overkill as well, but I'm on the fence of that one.  I suggest removing the Norf n Lights section.  (I'd have done it myself if Firefox didn't cut short on long pages.)--BakerQ 00:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norf n Lights 

message: I have posted a question at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_subdivisions regarding the present split between the articles Middlesbrough and Middlesbrough (borough) and invite comments.  I note that the articles are mutually contradictory, in that Middlesbrough claims that it is larger than Middlesbrough (borough), but Middlesbrough (borough) identifies places outside Middlesbrough that are in the borough; but these places are places that Middlesbrough claim are in Middlesbrough.  Please leave general comments there.  Morwen - Talk 23:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Middlesbrough town / borough 

message: I've looked at their website for a source for this 180,000 figure, and can't find it.   shows their population figures, which are all entirely based on local authority and ward boundaries.  I cannot find any attempt at them identifying a Greater Middlesbrough area.  Morwen - Talk 09:25, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You must understand the importance of properly referencing things.  For example, in this edit, I made the population figure in the infobox actually agree with actual ONS data.  I have not checked who put that figure of 182,800 in there, but I strongly frown upon misrepresenting sources in this way.   Given the sort of misrepresentation and nonsense that are prevelant on the Middlesbrough articles, I am skeptical as to this figure as well.  Morwen - Talk 08:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here we are - it was you after all.  Can you please justify this edit?  Morwen - Talk 08:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I am humbled by your acknowledgement of this.  I'd be delighted to see information about local identity addde - this type of information is difficult to source but not impossible.  Local newspapers, local history books, placename dictionaries, that sort of thing, probably exist and are usable as sources, in addition to the possibility of more academic works.  Morwen - Talk 10:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tees Valley Joint Strategy Unit 

message: Who is Paul Emmett? I've removed him from the list of notable musicians because he doesn't seem to be famous. Epimorph 12:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul Emmett 

message: Can anyone offer any information regarding the  Middlesbrough registration district from 1901.  I happened to come across a site which offers census data from 1901 and was curious about the Middlesbrough area.  Now I know there is always controversy and split opinion when it comes to the "Southbank & Eston being part of Middlesbrough" arguement, but when I looked into the census data for Southbank, Ormesby and Eston they refer themselves to being within the Registration district of Middlesbrough as sub-districts of Middlesbrough and was also part of its parliamentary borough.  What were these districts used for and do they constitute the said areas being a part of Middlesbrough in any form?  
This is the site from which I found the data:
http://www.1901censusonline.com/results.asp?wci=locale_results&px=1&searchwci=locale_search —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.11.18.231 (talk) 15:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Middlesbrough query 

message: I think that it would be helpful for non-Britons if a pronuciation guide, using the phonetic alphabet, was included. I can't do any better than "middles-bru", where the u is as in cup. That's clearly not good enough. Dancarney 14:24, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Depends on how you pronounce the "a". Needs phonetic alphabet. Dancarney 09:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Local pronunciation is like "Midils-bra". The brough is not pronounced like "Midils-broe" or "Midils-buroe" Tsider 01:00, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Although the fact is probably true about it being voted tenth 'crappiest' town in the UK, should this really be on the middlesbrough wiki page?  When I saw Bath appear above Middlesrbough on the list (along with some others), I realised that this list must have been made by picking town names out of a hat.  Are there no better gradings of towns around?  If not, then I think this should just be removed.  It's a joke, wich makes me naturally question the rest of what I read on the page. Ben 01:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Crap Towns II

message: In the first paragraph I wrote that Middlesbrough was the first town in the world to owe its exitsence to a railway. I think that this is important enough to have a prominent mentiom. Although the name is much older than this, as the article makes clear, the urban settlement would not have started without the S&D extension.  (The Pease family of course wore the initial financial backers of the S&D). Sasha 19:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Middlebrough and the railway

message: Why has the population of the Urban area been change to match the District population? Surely that population has been stated within the Borough of Middlesbrough article has it not? The population of Middlesbrough Urban area as defined by the ONS is 142,691, which is the appropriate figure to include in the Town article.  Most of the articles on Wikipedia, when describing Towns, use the Urban sub-area figure from the ONS for the population so why not for Middlesbrough?  I have changed the population accordingly
| statistics for Urban sub-areas   Tsider 22:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population change 

message: Now I agree that the majority of Redcar & Cleveland, possibly even the council itself, would count the areas above as Middlesbrough (based on them having a Middlesbrough address rather than being located in that particular district) but they are not officially part of Middlesbrough, which I believe they should.
I too agree with the Grangetown, Southbank, Eston and Lazenby areas of Redcar & Cleveland being part of Middlesbrough, regrdless of its council and local administration, as it forms part of the same continuous urban area, not to mention them all having a Middlesbrough postal address instead of a Redcar one.  It seems apparent that the addresses given to where people live and establishments are do not reflect the council area they are within, so why should being within one council area mean you are not part of another Town?  Anyway, locally, the area is seen as Middlesbrough, but apparently the government know better and the office for National statistics decided that those areas are part of a seperate urban-sub area, even though they have a Middlesbrough Postal address AND are linked directly by sprawl.  
Also another thing, the popualtion of the actual Middlesbrough Urban sub-area is 142,691 not 199,000... If the whole of the Middlesbrough area is counted as one single urban-sub are like it should be then it still only amounts to around 180,000.  For this I have taken the liberty to change the population back ( although 180,000 would be more appropriate in my view as a local!) Tsider 22:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  North Yorkshire IN Middlesbrough??? 

message: In the articles for Grangetown, Southbank, Eston, Teesville, Normanby and Ormesby I have made changes to parts which say the above areas are part of a Middlesbrough 'conurbation' and replaced it with 'Agglomeration' as conurbation gives the impression it forms a much larger area than it really does.  Tsider 12:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agglemeration over Conurbation 

message: Just a question... why do some editors seem to have such an aversion to providing links to specific dates in an article, and proceed to actually remove them? We are, after all, constructing an encyclopedia here, resplendent with, and better thanks to (or so I thought), as many relevant and interesting links as possible. Might somebody not wish to click on them in order to gain a wider, world view of events contemporary to a particular date? It's hardly as if there aren't plenty of them, after all! Isn't it more of a headache, that editors removing links to dates are therefore making them too indistinct in the article? Or is all this palaver over having them (or otherwise) simply some result of a broader Wikipedia policy of which I am unaware and which I have to say, if anything, I hardly like the sound, or understand the logic, of?  
Do clarify, if there are any objectors to me finally adding linked dates back into the article, please. MRacer (talk) 20:32, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Full dates should be wikilinked to allow for user preference operation, but year only or month & year dates should only be wikilinked if significant, so most year only dates would be expected to be unlinked in an article. See WP:MOSDATE#Autoformatting and linking for details. Keith D (talk) 21:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are we removing links to dates? 

message: Could the high crime rate be partly due to the use of cameras and zero tolerence policy leading to more incidents being recorded?  --Another berean (talk) 14:51, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crime 

message: There has to be some mention in the industrial section that the place was once thick with smog. The fans of the football club are called smoggies and there are songs about taking gas masks to the city for this very reason.
The place is still not the cleanest air in Britain, and it used to be disgusting  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.223.212 (talk) 15:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The smog that was may not have been industrial.  Up through the 60's domestic coal fires were a major source, and you can say that about any major urban area.  I remember the fogs of my youth, and they were definitely smoky.  I can't speak about any time after 1974, but I bet things are better.  Even in the 60s most of the industry was out of town: Billingham, Eston and Redcar must have had the worst of it. Djdaedalus (talk) 16:46, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smog 

message: Who are the top football teams in town other than the Premier League club?  Kenallen (talk) 23:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sport

message: The image :Image:Teesnewportbridge.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --06:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Teesnewportbridge.jpg

message: I've added him back into the sports people list. I am not sure I can agree with the other editor that he is not notable: the fact that there's no wp article on him now is not the same thing. It is not correct that there is no evidence of notability and that he is not Googleable: see for example this, this and this. Thanks and best wishes DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered (talk) 20:29, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Daniel 

message: I have altered the opening paragraph on Middlesbrough to reflect the fact that Middlesbrough is not part of the County of North Yorkshire. Olive66  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Olive66 (talk • contribs) 21:32, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: I reverted this recent edit which changed "town" to "city". City status in the United Kingdom makes it clear that Middlesbrough is not currently a city. The attempt from 88.108.45.197 to change that latter article too was not supported by any reference and has already been reverted by another editor. I'd suggest that this needs discussing here before any further change is made: a change to "city" will not stick without verifiable evidence to support it. Thanks and best wishes DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered (talk) 14:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Town/City 

message: Someone at an IP addr. posted an entry to the effect that Mbro was twinned
with Pyongyang in 1966.  I removed it.
OK, the North Koreans did play at Ayresome Park in 1966 during the world cup.  And maybe the respective mayors (it was a largely ceremonial post back then) did exchange flags or whatever.  But can anyone document this? Djdaedalus (talk) 13:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, a little time has passed and no-one has spoken up for it so I have removed "formerly twinned with Pyongyang in 1966." It can always be restored if a reference can be found. I did have a bit of a look but could not locate anything. Best wishes, DBaK (talk) 09:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twinned with Pyongyang? 

message: At the same time as the above I restored Middlesborough, KY which I had previously removed, and gave a reference for the LGA list which contains it. However I do feel that the date of 1890 for a twinning is very unlikely but again maybe a reference can be found? cheers DBaK (talk) 09:59, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The twinning list 

message: At the risk of making everyone even more disillusioned, bitter and knackered than they already are, I'd just like to point out MIMA and mima are used inconsistently in the article.  Myself I'd prefer MIMA on the grounds that it is an acronym and I see no reason to cater to officials with an e.e.cummings fetish.  As a comparison, the company AT&T is widely known by that acronym even though the modern logo is lowercase throughout. Djdaedalus (talk) 19:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I think you are quite possibly absolutely right. I was mostly annoyed by the anon IP editor, who does not believe in edit summaries and whose contribution record, while short, is not necessarily unblemishedly helpful. So I definitely wanted to revert their addition of a redlink (Max Han) for obvious reasons, and while I was at it I thought that if they wanted it to be MIMA they could at least give us the courtesy of a note, otherwise it looks like random driveby fiddling rather than a reasoned argument. Now, actually, like you I'm really not convinced that we have to use the capitalization arrangements that people would like, though some do seem to be a stronger currency than others (iPod for example, loathsome though it is, is quite well-accepted.) So in fact once I'd rv'd that I spent a little bit of time looking for a guideline or essay called something like "why we don't have to follow people's bloody silly capitalization schemes, nor their favourite fonts nor their other cute tricksy tricks" and sadly I didn't find it. By then I was feeling disillusioned, bitter and knackered, as you so observantly noted, so I gave up. If you want to make out an argument for MIMA throughout, or even produce that elusive guideline, I'd suggest you go for it. If I see some discussion or a helpful edit summary or really any sign at all that it's not just driveby fiddling, which was what I felt with the other one, then I'm really amazingly unlikely to take up the cudgels! Having said that I do have a nagging feeling that this issue does come up often and that there is probably a body of useful discussion elsewhere, which it might behoove us (yes!) (erk, is that what I mean??) to take into account... if only I were not too dim, let alone DB&K, to find it! Cheers DBaK (talk) 22:52, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  You say mima, I say MIMA 

message: Are these recent Club Bongo edits serious? Djdaedalus clearly thinks not and I reverted the next editor to add it mostly on that ground, but I don't really know and I see there is something there called that. Can someone clarify please? I don't want to risk leaving vandalism or to discourage legit editors so I'd be very grateful for more information. DBaK (talk) 20:06, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking for myself, I didn't see why any text about Club Bongo had to be introduced by hijacking a paragraph about the Empire.  If anything worthwhile can be said about Club Bongo it can be said in a separate section.  I don't live in the Boro anymore and haven't since the 70's, so I can't say whether CB existed or who played there, if any.  I never heard of any clubs "over the border", although "red-light district" could refer to Union Street or even Newport Road, where there were plenty of clubs (e.g. Sloopy's).Djdaedalus (talk) 03:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Club Bongo 

message: I've snapped a few photos of the new "Boro Eye" attraction if someone wants to add one - and ideally some information - to the article. They were taken on an iPhone, so don't expect exceptional quality - more than good enough for a Wikipedia article, though. Recommended size is 320x480, so that or smaller as a thumbnail would be fine.      |  |  |   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Obsiburr (talk • contribs) 21:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Boro Eye

message: Substituted at 15:23, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Shouldn't Rob Smedley be in the notables list?  Anyone with a Wikipedia entry would seem to be qualified. --Kcrossle (talk) 23:03, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But he comes from Normanby rather than the town which is the subject of this article.Chemical Engineer (talk) 20:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Rob Smedley

message: I have no knowledge of, nor can find any reference to, places in Middlesbrough called Town East or Town West. Town Farm - yes, I know that exists. But where are those other two? Francis Hannaway 14:11, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Town East - Town where?

message: Hi. I made two changes to this article's infobox data and wanted to check that others thought them OK. Or, er, not. Firstly I reverted a change made very recently when an editor changed the town's name to all caps. The infobox documentation doesn't mention all caps but Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(capital_letters)#All_caps doesn't suggest this usage and general usage elsewhere would not seem to support this change. The other change I made was to remove the nickname "Ironopolis". The template documentation at Template:Infobox_settlement#Images, Nickname, Motto says "well-known nickname(s)" and I am not sure that this is the case. The ref given for this (and for the other claim regarding this in the article, which I'd better remove for consistency) sadly has lost its audio, and the text given does not support this usage. Of course I would be delighted to be proven wrong with a good ref but I don't currently believe that it matches the spec. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 18:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Trying to find evidence that I'm wrong I haven't had much luck yet, but maybe you can do better. Apart from a billion clones of Wikipedia and articles about the former football team, there doesn't seem to be that much. This from the local paper mentions "The title refers to the town’s nickname throughout the world when it was at the height of its industrial power" which, sadly, is not now. Like I say, prove me wrong and I will be quite happy. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 18:26, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

text: I gave references from 1870, the earliest I could, find, and the Journal of Social History 2004, which is a refereed journal.  How many more do you want?  The photo of the wall is also suggestive. An encyclopedia is not limited to current usage. Ironopolis is much better established than some of the Manchester Mafia's claims.Chemical Engineer (talk) 20:08, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Boro (current), Ironopolis (obselete) is a good call. Accurate and helpful. Chemical Engineer (talk) 22:00, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you : Francis Hannaway (talk) Francis Hannaway 19:59, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox changes 

message: Unfortunately I can't see any reference for the estimation of 2008. Should be added. --Dionysos1988 (talk) 23:53, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demography 

message: This edit, removed due to "political slant", is not acceptable. Perhaps the information could be placed elsewhere and integrated into the article more appropriately, but it is solid information about the subject. The economy section simply does not mention either the decline of industrial production (the article doesn't go into it in detail either but takes it as a given) nor does the fact that about 50% of the people in the town work for some government or government agency with layoffs in progress. User:Fred Bauder Talk 02:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead and work it in where you think fit.  I removed it because, however well supported, it was clearly political commentary.  Nobody will fault you for placing the information in context, without reference to party politics. Djdaedalus (talk) 21:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing well sourced information

message: Is the Town's being the main setting for the film The Tournament big enough to gain mention in the Televisions and Filmography section?
UFOash (talk) 22:49, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's already been mooted and booted once.  And if you read the article on the film, the link is tenuous at best.Djdaedalus (talk) 13:18, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The first appearance was here.  To be fair the article on the film has improved a lot since then.  The Boro connection is clearer, but the notability of the film is in doubt.Djdaedalus (talk) 14:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The Tournament" 

message: It's very clear that that the page Middlesbrough and Middlesbrough Borough Council are talking about the same subject. I'm surprised others have been so quiet about the issue. Both articles are talking about the Unitary Authority of Middlesbrough aka Middlesbrough Borough Council. At least the Middlesbrough Borough Council page doesn't try to claim places in neighbouring Redcar and Cleveland.
So - let's hear your thoughts on the subject. All opinions welcome. Francis Hannaway 16:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from Middlesbrough Borough Council 

message: I added the tag for ext link cleanup bc there seem to be far too many ext links and many are used in the main text of the article where it would be more appropriate to turn them into inline citations/references. Comatmebro ~Come at me~ 07:08, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  External link cleanup 

message: I'm sure that there is enough interest to move the section about the Second World War to a new article. Then it could be expanded upon. As it is, it takes up a lot of space in an already overly long article. Any thoughts? Francis Hannaway 23:34, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now reduced the section about WW2 and submitted a new article Middlesbrough during World War 2 (not live yet - it's being reviewed) which will take the content of the Middlesbrough page on the subject and, in time, be expanded in its new home. Francis Hannaway (talk) 09:36, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  World War II - new article 

message: And dump here. NPOV and WP:FORK concern. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:20, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of history section from [[Mayor of Middlesbrough]] article

message: Why are "twinning" and "Twin towns" two separate sections? It's tempting to assume that it's a mistake and someone perhaps introduced one without seeing the other already there ... or ... ? DBaK (talk) 10:08, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, Francis: it appears that this was you, here - was this intentional? Please advise. (I've TB'd Francis.) DBaK (talk) 10:17, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha! Well, my memory doesn't go back so readily to individual edits, but that looks about right. What I do know, however, is that Middlesboro (or, Middlesborough) in Kentucky, is not a current twin. There's no reference given for it ever having been a twin - but it was already in the article when I started editing. Perhaps it was in the 1800s. My apparent introduction of these "facts" could've been from last summer when I deleted almost half of the whole page by trimming a lot of drivel about bus shelters and public TV screens and weasely POV content. You may be looking at what I stuck back together. So, dated 5th August 2012, that seems about right. Incidentally, I tried to get a merger of Middlesbrough and Middlesbrough Borough Council. It really needs some one from outside the area to look at both articles. But ... going back to twinning - edit as you will. Best wishes! Francis Hannaway (talk) 11:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason I mentioned the merging of the two Middlesbrough articles is that it is actually the borough council that is twinned - not the town. Middlesbrough as a town doesn't have any elected bodies - it is the unitary authority of Middlesbrough Borough Council that has those. Therefore, we could argue that Middlesbrough is not twinned at all. Signs erected on entry roads clearly show that it is the whole of the unitary authority which is twinned. It's easier to see the logic of this by looking at neighbouring Redcar and Cleveland Borough Council with its main town of Redcar. Redcar and Cleveland is twinned - but Redcar ain't. Middlesbrough is both the name of the main town and the name of the unitary authority (and the unitary authority doesn't reach far beyond the town) so it's easy to confuse the two. Food for thought Francis Hannaway (talk) 12:05, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the helpful replies and yes, that's food for thought indeed. It means that my initial concern over the duplicate sections is now part of something a bit broader ... although I suppose that deduplicating them here might be a good start anyway. Perhaps fortunately I'm out of time today so I can perform the Lazy Editor Manoeuvre of coming back in a day or more to see what (if anything) has happened! Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 12:22, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm quite sure that you are also right about Middlesboro, KY, by the way. I seem to recall that we discussed it here years ago, or I looked it up, or something ... I don't think that the evidence exists. If it does, I would be most interested to see it! :) Cheers DBaK (talk) 12:25, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twinning and twin towns 

message: I'm going to be bold and try to sort this out, but please chime in if you can help! The only good ref I can find so far is the Council's own page on the subject, which mentions only Oberhausen. Historyman53 (please see here) has very usefully pointed out that the ref I had for the Dunkirk thing is not reliable - it's a blog, and in fact I wrote to the journalist and he has no better ref beyond that, so I think that's it done as a WP:RS. But actually I think the council's own current page trumps all, so I am going to cut it back to Oberhausen, at least until someone shows up with an RS for anything else. I will de-duplicate the sections at the same time. Best wishes, DBaK (talk) 13:56, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: PS I note that this doesn't address Francis's concern about what is actually twinned - the authority rather than the town  ... sorry ... but I am not sure how to, and it's a start, anyway. DBaK (talk) 14:06, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twin towns sortout 

message: Someone has helpfully written a paragraph about the climate in Middlesbrough.
::"Middlesbrough has an oceanic climate typical for the United Kingdom. Being sheltered by both the Lake District and Pennines to the west, Middlesbrough is in one of the relatively drier parts of the country, receiving on average  of rain a year. It has more of a continental climate than other parts of the UK, with above average summer temperatures, and below average winter temperatures. Summer highs typically reach around , while winter lows can fall to several degrees below "
I would say that, with it being unreferenced, that it is complete original research and not completely helpful. It states that Middlesbrough has an oceanic climate and then that it has a continental climate. I don't know what's wrong with a good old-fashioned temperate climate. My understanding, and experience, of a continental climate, in Europe, is one of much hotter weather in the summer, but with extremely cold temperatures (-10 C to -20 C) in the winter. Would anyone agree that the excellent temperature and rainfall grid on the page would suffice? ... and that we can delete the paragraph, which, if referenced, would be more at home on a page about a region rather than a town? Francis Hannaway (talk) 22:26, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like OR, support removal. Ma®©usBritish{chat} 23:00, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Similar sections are on most city/town articles e.g. Manchester or Northallerton, though would need referencing. Keith D (talk) 00:53, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Manchester is well referenced for rainfall and temperatures, but it mixes 'temperate' with 'maritime' and provides no indication as to how these descriptions were arrived at. The Northallerton page gives references for temperature and rainfall, but the only other reference is a dubious one, coming as it does from a tourist site for the Yorkshire Dales ... could be a bit biased. The rest of Northallerton's paragraph seems to be similarly written as OR by an amateur meteorologist. I think we need to be careful in providing information to the wider public which appears to have been written with authority, when it quite clearly has just been made up.Francis Hannaway (talk) 08:40, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  A climate for Middlesbrough 

message: This one's for the muppets who keep changing "town" to "city": http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9588713.Middlesbrough_misses_out_on_city_status/ Ma®©usBritish{chat} 12:58, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  City status 

message: Is Teesside Tintin notable enough for this article? We now have "Comic writer Nick Donnelly creator, voiceover and editor of Teesside Tintin" in the notable people section. Edits by Edaward123456 today - I will drop them a talkback message. DBaK (talk) 12:03, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: In short - No. Francis Hannaway (talk) 21:03, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Mr Donnelly, he gone. DBaK (talk) 21:08, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability of Teesside Tintin 

message: Is Longlands a real enough bit of Middlesbrough to be in the list? I RVd an IP as they'd also trashed the list format and didn't seem to get the alpha order, but I'm agnostic on whether it should actually be in the list or not, and don't want to appear bitey - anyone advise please? Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 12:16, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: A list of suburbs is meaningless in an encyclopedic article. The reader could be in Japan, or Java. They are just words, and if they don't have a page to describe them, then they shouldn't be included. The Newcastle upon Tyne article gives a concise list of council wards in two columns - very neat and tidy; I suggest the Middlesbrough page do the same.Francis Hannaway (talk) 21:15, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion Longlands is kind of an area within an area if you will.  I mean Its fairly substantial enough in size to be classed as a real bit of Boro but its more just a residential part of Town the same way Gresham is, its not a ward or anything.  However I agree that its not really useful in an encyclopedic article as apart from a few local shops and the Baltimore Hotel its really just a normal run of the mill residential area which isnt a bad thing just not really noteworthy. Acklamite (talk) 19:09, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Longlands 

message: He is the architect/artist behind the creation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_Island
His facebook says he is from middlesbrough https://www.facebook.com/richart.sowa  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.5.128.19 (talk) 12:35, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition of Richart Sowa 

message: The following coordinate fixes are needed for Middlesbrough - shows up in Scarborough
—83.170.111.148 (talk) 01:19, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks correct to me. --David Biddulph (talk) 07:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  83.170 is right, thanks, but it's the OS grid ref that's wrong, not the co-ord at the top. I'll have a go ... fixed DBaK (talk) 23:35, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coordinate error 

message: Middlesbrough (/ˈmɪdəlzbrə/ (About this soundlisten) MID-əlz-brə) is a large post-industrial town[1][2] founded in 1830 and situated on the south bank of the River Tees in the Tees Valley region of North East England.[3] The local council, a unitary authority, is Middlesbrough Borough Council. The 2011 Census recorded the borough's total resident population as 138,400 and the wider urban settlement with a population of 174,700.[4] Middlesbrough is part of the larger built-up area of Teesside which had an overall population of 376,333 at the 2011 Census.[5]
Middlesbrough became a county borough within the North Riding of Yorkshire in 1889. In 1968, the borough was merged with a number of others to form the County Borough of Teesside, which was absorbed in 1974 by the county of Cleveland. In 1996, Cleveland was abolished, and Middlesbrough Borough Council became a unitary authority within the Tees Valley. RGs Erimus ("We shall be" in Latin) was chosen as Middlesbrough's motto in 1830. It recalls Fuimus ("We have been") the motto of the Norman/Scottish Bruce family, who were lords of Cleveland in the Middle Ages. The town's coat of arms is an azure lion, from the arms of the Bruce family, a star, from the arms of Captain James Cook, and two ships, representing shipbuilding and maritime trade.[6] TeesInfo (talk) 15:42, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: .  It's not clear what change(s) you want to make.  Please make a precise request.  –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 16:26, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This should be the ceremonial county as is our usual practice so should be North Yorkshire not Tees Valley. Keith D (talk) 16:30, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2018 

message: Please note - when adding your Boro-Love anecdotes about how great and beautiful Middlesbrough is, that Wikipedia is not TripAdvisor. Writing should be concise and informative, with statistics and not hearsay. Francis Hannaway (talk) 17:49, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Encyclopaedic writing is different to writing a travel guide 

message: This section was very messy, after tidying it up, it appears to be too long + very cumbersome. This section needs to be moved entirely to List of people from Middlesbrough to tidy up. Devokewater (talk) 13:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree – if there is a separate article for it then it does not need to be here too – the guidelines at WP:UKTOWNS has that normally there should be link to the list and a prose summary – however I often find the summary problematic as some of it duplicates other parts of the article (e.g. the sport section where several names are already covered) and it leads to debate over which and how many names should be mentioned. EdwardUK (talk) 14:37, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with that - I tidied up the page List of people from Middlesbrough and threw out a few examples such as Ray Mallon (from Thornaby) as those who were not from Middlesbrough. The list of notable people here far exceeds that on the separate article, something which should be reversed. I am perhaps being too pernickety, but I don't think James Cook belongs here either, as Middlesbrough was a tiny settlement smaller than Marton when he was born. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 14:41, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I'll move when I have a spare moment. The joy of all things do you still want it kept alphabetically? Devokewater (talk) 15:08, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Alphabetically? It was like that when I started, just without citations. However, the other Yorkshire lists (List of people from Bradford, List of people from Leeds, List of people from Kirklees, List of people from Barnsley, List of people from Doncaster, and List of people from Wakefield all are alphabetical. Only List of people from Kingston upon Hull and List of people from York are separated by occupation. As long as it's cited and the Middlesbrough article looks better....meh! Good luck and regards. Ooh; if you are struggling with citations, I can help out with some referencing via ODNB, as I did at Richmond, North Yorkshire#Notable people. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 15:17, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, moved as discussed Devokewater (talk) 15:26, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable people

message: Should Middlehaven get its own section in the article:
*Old centre of town(history tick)
*notably has college, football ground, rail station and bridge (present sections)
*a lot of developments are currently planned for it (future section)
They is probably a set boundary but A66 is pretty much to the south and Tees to the north. Where did the name come from, probably simply Middle+haven and when did it come to been named as such. Chocolateediter (talk) 02:17, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Prima Facie, yes, if you  have sources. Devokewater 17:22, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

text: It sounds very interesting. Devokewater 21:54, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Wow blimey! Well done. The weird thing is I had no idea of this usage or even of that bit of the geography ... I was little and our visits into Middlesbrough were not really tourism and heritage absorption! :) Good job and thanks. DBaK (talk) 17:12, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: There appears to be some problem with heading levels here as all sections towards end appear to be part of this new section. Also you end up with multiple sections named the same e.g. History. The whole section probably should be part of the main History section rather than a separate section. Keith D (talk) 00:20, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Middlehaven 

message: There is a discussion at talk:Milton Keynes#"Large" town that may be of interest to editors of this article (since it also uses the phrase "large town"). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 10:52, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: We should change from "large town" to just "town" Devokewater 10:55, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Large" town