Talk:Kira Yamato

message: Major characters should not be merged. Iceberg3k 03:03, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)
*I recently restructured the Mobile Suit Gundam SEED, Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny pages, along with the Cosmic Era Mobile Units, Battleships and Spacecraft of the Cosmic Era, Cosmic Era list of characters pages. I think a good compromise is a Characters page containing all the main names, with a brief description. These names should link to additional personal pages only where there is enough info to dedicate an entire page to a character, which IS the case here. The same should be done for the mobile suits and for the ships: a listing page with brief descriptions and individual pages where necessary. --IgorTrieste 10:55, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

message: I don't want to hurt the feelings of the responsible editors, but who the bloody hell thought it reasonable to recount the minute details of the battles of the last episodes? It's a bloody encyclopedia, not a documentary!
IMNSHO, the last couple of paragraphes could be severely shortened down to two paragraphs without losing any crucial information whatsoever:
:After obtaining Strike Freedom, Kira returns to Orb by dropping in from orbit, accompanied by Lacus Clyne in Infinite Justice. He intervenes in the battle taking place at Orb, saving Cagalli from being killed by Shinn Asuka. The latter is forced to withdraw from the battlefield for resupplies, which leaves Kira to helping with the defense.
:When the resupplied Destiny and Legend enter battle again, he is almost killed at the hands of the ZAFT pilots, but is saved by the injured Athrun Zala.
That's it. This article isn't "retell the whole arc of SEED Destiny involving Kira", it's a encyclopedial article about a character. Or, in more understandable terms: it's not a biography, but a fluffy curriculum vitae.
I haven't got the heart to shorten the article by such a significant amount; I'd appreciate if the original author of those paragraphs (who also has a tick for writing from a point of view perspective) would understand his error and correct his own mistake.
-- towo 00:25, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
IMHO, rather than shorten the paragraph it is better for using sub-section. As the short paragraph above can make ambiguity about the matter for the ones who never actually seen corresponding anime episode or manga chapter. The ambiguity (IMHO): Who the ZAFT pilots? The Cannon fodder ^^? Is he is really almost killed (he may only take severe damage, who know? Remember Muu's case?)? And more of these, Kira outperform Shinn in one to one battle in the first part (the destiny sword even get caught and destiny may be killed if Kira using the abdomen cannon) Not to mention Shinn in second part also almost shot by the double beam rifle if not intervened with legend.152.118.24.10 05:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recitation etc. 

message: After viewing phase One of Destiny many times, I dont see how Freedom's HiMAT was taken as the direct culprit of Shinn's family deaths. Its Oficial (i.e. its in the official site) or its just fan information? Even then, at that particular episode of SEED, Freedom was fighting against OMNI/EAF new MS, specially Forbidden,who could deflect incoming beam attacks, so I dont really see Kira being directly blamed for their deaths, unless its a fact said in the official site...
*I would say so, i notice some edit war a long time ago regarding this matter, anyway there is no proof (at least for me) that Kira DIRECTLY kill them, but I agree if you say INDIRECTLY as wars alyways make victims, don't they?152.118.24.10 05:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About Kira being the culprit of Shinn's family death 

message: Do we need such section? As I saw it is mostly a speculation (although based on facts)? Draconins 02:39, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nature of the relationship between Lacus and Kira 

message: First, Why everyone put thier hands for making this article the best ever, everyday there are a new changes, But in other articles specially Shinn Asuka article biases unlimited and the way of writing is from the OWN POV not NPOV, And if you want to add something it will be deleted in the same time why is that, Is this web for OWN OPINIONS or the NPOV. COULD ANYONE HELP ME.
:Hello, please calm down. Please assume good faith, and don't forget to sign your post. From my perspective, I work on one article until it is enough, then the next so I thought the others may do same as me. Draconins 05:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  BIAS 

message: How in hell does a person loose THAT MUCH weight at the same time GROW TALLER? Where is this stat information coming from? Do all the characters have an eating disorder that we don't know about? We a lead to believe that all the characters are doing well. I believe that some of the stats on all the characters are fabricated.
* I don't know off the top of my head exactly how much Kira weighed in either series, but I do remember that shocking weight loss when I looked at the new official stats. The only character who gained weight was Neo/Mwu. :P
* Out of persistence, it could simply be Coordinators having a different bone structure or how their muscle tissue binds differently. It still sounds like fangirl bait/writing though.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.224.53 (talk) 09:04, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Weight

message: While preview pics show Kira wearing a white ZAFT uniform, that is not a gaurantee he joins ZAFT in GSDSE.  After all, he wore a red ZAFT uniform in GS, but was not an actual member of ZAFT.  Until GSDSE is released, claiming Kira is ZAFT commander is speculation.  Edward321 00:04, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zaft Membership 

message: It’s the fourth time I’ve had to revert this. No, idiotic 4chan exaggerated recurring jokes are not encyclopedic content. Moreover, 4chan is not, despite what they might want to believe, the canonical master of the internet, and just because ANONYMOUS spouts that line every three goddamn minutes doesn’t make it common use among the fans, as there are plenty of other communities that don’t.
And no, it’s not in SRW either. I guess 71.230.72.192 misinterpreted what’s on Shinji Ikari’s page. Ephyon 01:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ENOUGH WITH JESUS YAMATO

message: Didn't Kira cry himself to sleep while repaeating "traitor" to himself?--Tempest115 12:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He is shown saying "traitor" to himself once. I'm not exactly sure if he was crying himself to sleep though, as he probably went to his room so he can be alone while he cried. I'll undo my edit. --Silver Edge 19:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The on the Archangel section 

message: From what I've read, the SEED mode boost doesn't affect stats at all, but gives +10% to final dealt damage, final dodge chance and final hit chance.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.217.39.244 (talk) 20:25, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About SRW @3 reference 

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BetacommandBot 06:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Kyama.JPG

message: :Image:Strike Freedom.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Strike Freedom.jpg

message: :Image:Strike Freedom.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 21:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Strike Freedom.jpg

message: This article has been tagged as "in universe" and having an overlong plot section since early August, 2006--nearly eighteen months ago.
Let's see what Kira has going for him in the real world:
* He's the protagonist of Mobile Suit Gundam SEED
** This series won several major awards
** It has international significance.  For instance Cartoon Network in the USA has shown it
** It was described by an AnimeNation analyst as a breakthrough series, popular with regular Japanese viewers as well as Otaku
** There were several mangas concerning side stories to the main series
* He's an important character in Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny
** Although the relevant article contains little information about the reception of the series, it did win two consecutive Animage awards.
However this article is solely about the character.  It contains no real world information at all, so it's 43 kilobytes of plot summary and characterization.
What could be done to address these problems? --Tony Sidaway 08:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Unaddressed long term problems of this article

message: I think those should be removed. He doesn't have a collection of allegiance, and I find it to be fan information. Ranks is keep or remove, it seems to fit with two of them. Mobile Weapons I think, should be removed and just merged to plot, since he's not keeping them as a collection. DragonZero (talk) 02:28, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alligiance, Rank, and Mobile Weapons 

message: The final battle of Gundam Seed is quite possibly the most significant one of the series. It is a character defining moment for Kira Yamato considering he is fighting out of character; not being his usual calm and rational self, going so far as to attempting to kill Rau. It would not be consistent with the article and that of other characters to not provide a brief mention as notable battles have been briefly mentioned including those which do not result in the loss of a mobile suit for the combatant. (example; Inclusion of Shinn's battle vs Kira on Shinn's character page)
I also believe it is the intent of the article to provide as brief of a summary as possible. Many significant developments are not described in detail but rather a reference is given. It would not consistent with the article to provide an overlong detailed analysis of why the battle is relevant or to describe the subtle ways in which it effects Kira's personality. 
Kira's defeat of Rau can also be seen as Kira Yamato's single most important action in the series as Rau was largely responsible for steering the course of the war. Based on the criteria established by this article and those of other Gundam Seed characters it merits inclusion.   Vejet (talk) 16:45, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It is the climatic battle of the series, between the protagonist and the chief antagonist, during which the protagonist's first love is murdered by the antagonist. To say it has no impact on Kira is baffling, obviously it has significant impact. Edward321 (talk) 17:51, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: But it makes no impact on Kira at all. Saying it affects on Kira's personality or that it was what ended war is wp:original research and not to mention that Kira also battled various other ZAFT pilots in the series' finale. Other stuff makes it clear discussing others is not a valid (although Shinn's battle had a cause and consequence for his it to be mentioned). The reason why battles should be avoided is to avoid fancruft and additionally, Rau's name was already linked in the same paragraph making the link pointless.Tintor2 (talk) 21:34, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Saying it does not affect Kira at all is wp:original research on your part. Rau's named being previously linked does not mean it cannot be mentioned again without a link. I think you are significantly misinterpreting Other stuff and fancruft - based on your interpretation A New Hope should not mention Luke destroying the Death Star and Bridge on the River Kwai should not mention the death of Colonel Nicholson. Edward321 (talk) 22:22, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There has been no proof that such thing is notable for the character. It may have had an impact on Rey, but no Kira. Additionally, sure, he battles Rau, but he also battles other Earth Alliance soldiers who are notable to the story in the last episodes. If we were to place notable opponent he has but makes no impact of him, then we would sure be using fancruft. Moreover, Rau's position was already explained, so there's no need to explain who is he again and provide a link. By the way, if we used the Star Wars example, then that would be Athrun's role as he was supposed to destroy Genesis, while Kira battled the ZAFT and Earth Alliance pilots.Tintor2 (talk) 22:36, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that there is conclusive evidence that it effects his character by observing his mannerism during the fight and by comparing his behavior at the end of Gundam Seed to the way he acts in Gundam Seed Destiny. But getting past that, any observable effects on his personality are actually irrelevant. It is the implications of this event on the series and on Kira himself that is relevant. Fact is that Kira defeated Rau. There is no need to go into any more detail than that. Whether or not Kira even realized it, defeating Rau was an essential contribution to ending the war. With this action Kira's fulfills his entire purpose in fighting - to end the war. That effect alone makes it a note worth event in his personal history. Vejet (talk) 23:34, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Coming from here, I have no knowledge of this character. That said, you're all on the wrong track. Keep in mind: Nobody is interested in our opinions. Whether some Wikipedians think that some event in the life of a fictional character had an impact on him or not is completely irrelevant. It would be best to find a source making a claim to that end, but lacking such a source we should try to stick to objective criteria in determining what is worth mentioning an what isn't. For instance, we could go by screen time. How long is the sequence in question? And how much is that in comparison to his total screen time? Goodraise 02:40, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not much really in comparison. Kira appears in about 100 episodes, and the fights lasts for some minutes considering the cuts there are. I still don't haven't seen a source explains how that such battle affects the character, considering there are just speculations.Tintor2 (talk) 15:01, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: “Not much really in comparison. Kira appears in about 100 episodes, and the fights lasts for some minutes considering the cuts there are.” Yes, and the same can be said about every battle in the series give or take a few minutes. If battle time in comparison to series time is relevant why make note of any battles at all? (they all fail this) Whats more important is that the amount of time spent on this battle was more than that spent on any other individual event which occurred in the final battle. Also, Rau was to Kira as Kira was to Shinn; a menacing opponent that in their minds had to be stopped. Why include Shinn’s battle vs Kira on Shinns’s page if Kira’s battle against Rau is not included? What is the difference between them? The only quantifiable difference is that Shinn’s battle vs Kira happened in the middle of one series vs a battle that happened at the end of another series(but actually in the middle of the franchise). Also, Rau died while Kira did not. This arguably makes Shinn’s battle against Kira less relevant. It did not change the outcome of the war. Where as Kira’s battle against Rau was a contributing factor to the end of the original war, Kira's only objective. Defeating Rau was a contributing factor because as shown on numerous occasions, he was an individual who had the authority, motive and capability to manipulate events in his favor. His defeat is more relevant than that of any other combatant because he was the only one shown to have these capabilities. The fact that the final battle occurred as it did was due entirely to Rau’s machinations. Therefore his defeat is of greater prominence than Kira’s defeat of any other specific individual. In any case, my main issue is with consistency. The same standard being discussed here has not be applied to other Gundam Seed/Destiny characters therefore seeing as no consensus can be reached here I will be making the appropriate changes. Vejet (talk) 19:11, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Firstly, if we cared more about consistency (I believe you meant consistency, not constancy) than about quality, no article would improve, ever. Secondly, you can write a ten page essay on why this is the most important battle in the franchise, if you please, but that won't help here. Since I apparently did not make myself sufficiently clear the first time I said it, I'll point it out again: Our opinions don't matter. A reader who is interested in the opinions of anonymous nobodies can find an endless supply on countless blogs and noticeboards throughout the web. We are not in the business of publishing our own thoughts. (See WP:OR.) Thirdly, that "battle time in comparison to series time is relevant" is not what I said (or meant). The scope of this article is just that one character, not the whole series. Each and every appearance of the character should be given due mention. Due mention may be a whole section, a paragraph, a sentence, or no mention at all. (See WP:DUE.) Determining how much "weight" to give a particular appearance is best done by citing non-primary sources (the primary source in this case is the anime series itself). Without such sources to rely on, we have little choice but to look at the anime itself, but that doesn't equate to a free pass around policy. (Again, see WP:OR.) We need to find a criterion that is as objective as possible. Using screen time is merely a suggestion on my part. To give an example of how that would work: Assuming a character has 100 minutes of screen time, including a 10 minute flashback into his past, a 5 minute battle, a split second appearance in the crowd of a large sports stadium, and 20 minutes of sitting around and playing cards, then the plot summary section ("Appearances" as it is named here) of that character's article should dedicate about 10% of its size to the flashback, 5% to the battle, give a mention at the very most of the appearance in the crowd, and 20% to the character's playing of cards. It's simple and it requires little to no opining on our part. Goodraise 23:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If I were to start giving reasons all over again, is that Kira's fight against Rau was just one of the many fights he had in the last ten episodes which helped the end war. There is no source that says that affects him, while if I were to refer to otherstuff, his fight against Shinn actually helps to explain why Kira lost his current mobile suit and had to use another. Strangely, Vejet already did a similar edit to Shinn Asuka's page using the same argument so I'm quite confused about his reason.Tintor2 (talk) 23:55, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: re; Screen time - the majority of Kira's screen time in the episode is question was fighting Rau. re; significance of the battle - I stated that it is "perhaps" the most significant battle, I did not claim that it was in fact and yes that would be my own personal opinion which is of course irrelevant. The facts support the notion that the battle is a significant event. This is the battle that actually results in the end of the (1st)war - the stated object of all the protagonists. re; "Thirdly, that "battle time in comparison to series time is relevant" is not what I said (or meant)" I understand your position, my comment was not in response to you. "Strangely Vejet already did a similar edit to Shinn Asuka's page] using the same argument so I'm quite confused about his reason." Please read my comment before to understand my reasoning for the aforementioned edit. The articles in question should be consistent now. However they are lacking in detail and hence quality which, as Goodraise has noted, should be of a greater concern. However it seems we are unable to achieve a higher standard since there is no 'consensus' on this matter. Vejet (talk) 04:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Yes your right, based on the information available its not a quantifiable fact, simply common sense. Re; minutes Kira and Rau’s battle takes about 5 minutes of screen time in episode 50. I’m guessing his average screen time per episode is normally about 4-5 minutes per episode. 5 minutes per episode that gives you 245 minutes for 49 episodes. The 5 minutes spent on the battle between Kira and Rau would represent approx. 2% of his total screen time (this of course does not including the 80 seconds spent on Kira having a ‘moment’ with the girl Rau kills in the episode during their battle). I count 508 words in the article on Kira’s actions in the first series. 2% of this would be 10 words, basically one sentence. There is no mention in the article of this specific battle.  Vejet (talk) 09:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Then wouldn't the same apply to the previous episode where Kira spent minutes battling the Earth Alliance pilots? Kira spent about two episodes in the final battle, one against the Earth Alliance soldiers, and one against Rau which summarizing would be all of the Archangel's enemies.Tintor2 (talk) 14:18, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You are mistaken, Kira's total screen time in episode 49, is less than 2 minutes. He spends approx. 20 seconds of screen time fighting the prominent Earth Alliance soldiers and he does not defeat a single one by himself. Perhaps it can be said that his actions were vital to the defeat of the Calamity's when it dodged his attack only to be destroyed by Athrun. In any case you have 20 seconds of screen time vs 5 minutes from a total of 200-250 minutes. Vejet (talk) 19:25, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, overdetails of battles should be avoided. In any case, how is the defeat or death of somebody else important enough to put it an article? The fight against Stella was also long and it included the death of a notable character (although saying notable or anything is OR).Tintor2 (talk) 20:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The edits are not over detailed, the total screen time compared to the word count is in proportion.  Vejet (talk) 22:07, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: How would that fit? Does this sound right? "Kira continues to fight along side the Archangel until their opponents, including Rau, have been defeated and the war comes to end."Tintor2 (talk) 23:28, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that fits and sounds fine. Everyone else in agreement?Vejet (talk) 00:57, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevance of Kira's battle vs Rau Le Creuset 

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