Talk:Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star

message: Would it have killed you to provide an English translation of the "original" French lyrics on the English page of this article (rather than a link to a translation into *German*)????  My own French skills got me about 3/4th of it, but there's still a bunch that I'm flailing at....
(oh, and I don't see why someone below asserts that the dirai-je is not a question.  Sure reads like a (rhetorical) question to me!)
This is an old construct. Nobody talks like this anymore today. (That's also why, even as a French person, I'm not 100% sure of the following. What I am sure of is that it is not a question. Definitely.)  It can be translated as "I am going to tell you". The tense is future, not subjunctive or conditional. (therefore, no s)
-- French user that is not a wikipedia user, December 28, 2010  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.57.67.241 (talk) 15:14, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation, Please?

message: congrats wikipedians, this article is a gem, thanks Spencerk 07:11, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: fabulous article

message: I stand by my comment that this is probably not a parody of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, and is not worth noting, but it's far too trivial a point to have an edit war about. --Poetlister 11:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New parody 

message: Somebody has added to the Ilfracombe article that this song was written by someone whilst visiting there. Any ideas if this might be true? Cheers JHJPDJKDKHI! 08:51, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ilfracombe

message: I'm surprised we have the sheet music but no sample. We should have a midi, and probably an Ogg as well... Nil Einne 16:28, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a sample of Tema of Variations on "Ah vous dirais-je, Maman" by Mozart, which is the basic melody of Twinkle Twinkle. --Ldnew 15:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No sample? 

message: ok I'll give this another try... I think what a wonderful world is "inspired" by twinkle twinkle little star. I found midi files and combined them, the melodies and song structures totally match, except that what a wonderful world has a slower tempo. I uploaded the combined midi here: http://midishrine.com/midi/11702.mid . Decide for yourself and include this info in the article if you want. I'm not gonna edit the article itself since my edits were reverted before. Thank you. 85.103.227.104 21:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It may well be true that What a Wonderful World was inspired by Twinkle, Twinkle... but if no one else has made the connection before, then we can't be the first to do so.  See the no original research rule. Nareek 21:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I couldn't find any direct connection. However, I think 85.103.227.104 might be onto something.  In  Baca, Maria. (August 28, 2004) Star Tribune An Essay: Worshiping at the Farmers Market. Section: News; Page 7B., the article discusses "Alphonse, a musician in an African kofia hat, who launches into a signature high-energy guitar riff every time he sees us coming. ... he plays "What a Wonderful World," "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star," and the ABC song, all with his own bluesy flair." It seems that Alphonse made a connection between these three songs.  Also, see Zorn, Eric. (April 29, 2007) Chicago Tribune Change of Subject. Section: Metro; Page 2. (writing, "The most singable of the top lullabies of all time include "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star," "Hush Little Baby," "Sweet Baby James" and the eerie "Rock a Bye Baby." Harder-to-sing classics include "Golden Slumbers," "Somewhere Over the Rainbow," "What a Wonderful World," "When You Wish Upon a Star" and "Beautiful Dreamer.") -- Jreferee 15:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's way too much of a reach. A few intervals are the same, but this is true of countless melodies. The statement should be removed from the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.188.169 (talk) 06:37, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What a wonderful world 

message: Should the article title be "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" (with the comma)? That seems to be how it usually is used. The article lead paragraph uses "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" but the article title lacks any use of commas. -- Jreferee 15:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article title

message: Certainly there are lots of versions of this tune around the world and the centuries, but the article doesn't mention one of the most stunning ones: "twinkle" by the US-American band The Residents, which can be heard on their 1980 E.P. "Goosebump"(1). The lyrics seem to be the unaltered classic english ones; the melody is also recognizable, but the arrangement... the version is quite mad, but still beautifull (just as childhood is, isn't it?)
(1) This E.P. is also available as bonus tracks in a CD-edition of the 1978 "Duck Stab" album.
fulano201.236.159.49 22:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  One more version 

message: Perhaps it's just a chance correspondence, but Arbeau's "Aridan" branle from 1588/1589 has all but the first two notes of the first line of this song, albeit transposed and with a break measure inserted between the two phrases. Look at the ninth measure in e.g. this and this arrangement. - B.Bryant 01:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: I have for the second time removed a link to a seminal performance, first introduced by 86.157.119.247 on 5 January 2008, and again by 86.129.136.179 on 19 January 2008. Both these accounts seem to be single-purpose accounts to promote the linked site.
I have removed the link because
#it's description is WP:POV;
#the file is subject to copyright (which is on its own OK, but together with the other points makes the link unsuitable);
#the link is insufficient: it leads to a page of text without any clear navigation to the file in question;
#it doesn't belong into this article, which is about the nursery rhyme, not the variations by Mozart.
Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:51, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed external link to ''seminal'' performance 

message: Why does Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat redirect to this page, when there is a perfectly good page (Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Bat) for it instead? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nonagonal Spider (talk • contribs) 17:22, 22 March 2008‎
:This has since been fixed. Hyacinth (talk) 05:25, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  What... 

message: should it be mentioned the words of Twinkle twinkle little star were written by jane in Colchester. The reasion i ask this is because a number of nursary ryhmes come from there inc humpty dummpty and old king cole.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.196.150 (talk) 18:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colchester 

message: The song appears in a rather haunting fashion in the Lullaby Trailer for the 2008 video game Dead Space and also appears in the game with a slightly edited version of the trailer. Might be notable, might not be- I don't believe it's ever been used in relation to a game before. Certainly not in this manner. dethtoll (talk) 09:40, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The song is also used in the movie.  An mp3 version of the song is available at the official website if you click on 'Fan Tools' button. Reignfire (talk) 23:02, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead Space trailer 

message: The only alternate verse I had ever even heard of, I learned from the 1962 The Alvin Show.  I was surprised not to see any reference to this alternate verse on this page.
When the evening sun has set,
When the grass with dew is wet,
Then I see you from afar,
Twinkle twinkle little star.
But in retrospect I am not sure whether this information is substantial enough to add to the article since I don't know where these lyrics originated from.
Marckubischta (talk) 06:38, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate English Verse? 

message: The translation of the second variation of the French version makes no sense.  Why would he say that "candy is better than lovers" when he speaks about soup and meat?  I think "mignon" refers to "filet mignon".  I cannot see a way to make it sound good, though.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.221.123.215 (talk) 18:18, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor translation for "mignon" 

message: I wonder why no-one ever proposed La Mantovana as the origin for this tune? To my ear, there are enough resemblances, plus the fact La Mantovana predates this by about a century.  - 94.140.73.150 (talk) 20:36, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  La Mantovana 

message: The "scientifically updated version" section contains little more than a complete set of lyrics.  This seems inappropriate for several reasons:
* The lyrics are presumably copyrighted
* There is no author or other provenance specified, other than a link to a blog where they appear, as original work
* The lyrics are not notable -- in fact their only presence on Google is this very article and the aforementioned blog post.  
So I guess this falls under What Wikipedia is not, and copyright problems, if not other categories.
71.58.76.167 (talk) 11:07, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Scientifically updated" version is problematic 

message: Re: "'Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star' is a popular English nursery rhyme. The lyrics are from an early nineteenth-century English poem, 'The Star' by Jane Taylor. The poem, which is in couplet form, was first published in 1806 in Rhymes for the Nursery, a collection of poems by Taylor and her sister Ann. It is sung to the tune of the French melody Ah! vous dirai-je, Maman (oldest known publication 1761).[1] The English lyrics have five stanzas, although only the first is widely known."
If Twinkle is a "nursery rhyme", than it doesn't have "lyrics"; it is a lyric. There is, of course, a song called "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star", but that song would appear to be a different, obviously closely related, work, and the article needs to be clear about the relation. As of now it's entirely opaque. TheScotch (talk) 23:20, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What, exactly, is this article supposed to be about? 

message: I was surprised (hehe) to find claims that the "Ah! vous dirais-je, maman" melody is featured in the slow movement of Haydn's "Surprise" Symphony no. 94. Sure, the rhythm and melodic contour are similar, but the tonal scheme is not. (Twinkle: ABA: 4 bars w PAC; 2 bars w HC, repeated; first 4 bars. Surprise: AAAABA: 4 bars w HC; another 4 with HC; all 8 repeated; 4 bars entirely of dominant chord; 4 bars paralleling opening material but ending in PAC.)
An editor cited some Kennedy Center program notes, and I thought, "Well, program notes are hardly scholarly proof, and went ahead and removed the references to it. On second thought, I looked just a little harder, and find several (albeit non-scholarly) sources making the same claim (, , , , ). I reverted my hasty edit, seeing that there are so many sources giving the same line. I find it interesting that all the ones I found (in a 5-minute search) were "listening"-type introductory guides. I wonder whether the first one pointed out the passing similarities as a mnemonic aid (e.g. "Listen for the tune that sounds a litle like "Twinkle"!), and it became parroted to the point that it showed up in National Symphony Orchestra program notes.
I'm afraid I don't have time at the moment to unearth—or fail sufficiently to unearth—conclusive evidence of a connection, but if I remember in a few months when my dissertation is done I'll try to do so. In the meantime, even if the references are kept, they are ineptly placed—wedged into a footnote with a broken link, and dropped into a paragraph about the lyrics. And I find it hard to imagine that they should not end up as "Haydn wrote something that sounds kind of like it," rather than "Haydn used it." 98.122.166.235 (talk) 17:22, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Haydn's "Surprise" symphony 

message: Looking at the French version of this article, and the length of the relevant subsections in this article, it looks to me like "Ah! vous dirai-je, Maman" would be worthy of a separate article of its own. Agree or disagree? Oncenawhile (talk) 18:01, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ah! vous dirai-je, Maman 

message: Thought you might want to correct this. The Lewis Carroll version doesn't use the word "twinkle". Instead, it uses the word "treacle", which is another word for molasses that one might have with their tea and crumpets at their tea party. It was recited by the dormouse.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.31.130.227 (talk) 02:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alice In Wonderland version 

message: The article doesn’t say when the title (Twinkle Twinkle Little Star) was applied to the tune; sometime between 1806 and 1838. 
Maybe, too, the poem was sung to the tune, before the title was applied (to the tune). 
Plus: When did people start claiming Mozart wrote it? Gotta be after 1960 I expect. MBG02 (talk) 16:18, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  When Twinkle? 

message: The lyrics are too spread out.  This is due to Jerome Kohl's July 2020 changing en-dashes to --.
However, that's what the \addlyrics documentation says you're supposed to do!  I don't want to just
revert Jerome's change.  Maybe the \addlyrics tool is broken?  I'd ask Jerome, but he's dead.
Neutron Jack (talk) 19:17, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lyrics are too spread out 

message: It was first published in a jiont book by two sisters, Jane and Anne Taylor.  The book says it was Jane, Anne's son says it was Jane.  Who is saying differently? Why the uncertainty? Kevin McE (talk) 12:26, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why the uncertainty? 

message: it skips a couple of seconds 109.151.94.33 (talk) 05:37, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  The audio on the first sample is corrupted