Talk:Andon Dimitrov

message: Gurther, do you have any logical explanation why you changed the stable version and swapped the sequence of the two languages by putting Macedonian before Bulgarian? The Macedonian language was codified after the death of this man who wrote in Bulgarian because he was not taught to write in Macedonian. He was a Bulgarian citizen and a Bulgarian by ethnicity as well as by nationality. He was also a member of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. Also, B is alphabetically before M. Jingiby (talk) 19:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Jingiby please provide to me a rule in wikipedia which states that if the language was made after his death he can't be spelled in it, while you're looking for that please provide aswell a rule in wikipedia which states his name has to be spelled in alphabetical order, there was a similar dispute for Alekso Martulkov right here. Gurther (talk) 19:34, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: When have I ever written something like this? Jingiby (talk) 19:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Jingiby, im asking you to provide a proper reason for not accepting these changes, nowhere in wikipedia is it stated that the spelling of his native name should be in alphabetical order i pointed out the Alekso Martulkov case for you to read and realise no such rule in wikipedia exist that says the name should be spelled in alphabetical order. Gurther (talk) 19:52, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:COMMON. Wikipedia has many policies or what many consider "rules". Instead of following every rule, it is acceptable to use common sense as you go about editing. Why isn't "use common sense" an official policy? It doesn't need to be; as a fundamental principle, it is above any policy. Common sense says that the language that someone studied in school and used as his own throughout his life cannot be put second to a language that was codified after his death. Moreover, there are no  indications that this person had an affinity for the creation of this subsequently codified language and its separation from Bulgarian one. Yes, this emerging language can be present in the article, but there is no life logic for it to be put in the first place. The case with Martulkov is completely different. He was alive when the Macedonian language was codified in 1945 and in the 1940s he adopted the Macedonian identity, although he was subsequently disillusioned with this whole history in the newly created Yugoslav Macedonia and returned permanently to Bulgaria where he died. Batandzhiev never accepted national Macedonian identity, did not use the Macedonian standard language by obvious reason and did not live to see the creation of SR Macedonia. He had Bulgarian national identity, Bulgarian nationality etc. It is proper to discuss every confused case like Martulkov and reach a reasonable compromise. Otherwise, indisputable cases like Batandzhev are completely clear. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 06:18, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Jingby this makes no sense at all, for starters "use common sense" can be extremely vague and not reliable as a rule for wikipedia, not to mention your logic isn't really common sense, nowhere in this wiki is it mentioned that the language he taught at school should be first or second, the only thing WP:COMMON mentions about common sense is "there are times when it is better to ignore a rule. Even if a contribution "violates" the precise wording of a rule, it might still be a good contribution." which suggest people can break the rule once and awhile if its minor and it doesn't cause a huge issue. Also i have a question if your logic basically boils down to "he died before an offical codification of the Macedonian language happend" then why all known former IMRO revolutionary founders have their name spelt in Macedonian, as a matter of fact using your logic why are we spelling them in Bulgarian? they should be the old former Bulgarian orthography. Do you see the problem with these types of beliefs? Gurther (talk) 10:29, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello. Why don't you all ask for a third opinion? It's obvious that you can't resolve the dispute like this. StephenMacky1 (talk) 12:06, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: alright then StephenMacky1 provide your third opinion. Gurther (talk) 16:30, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not the one providing third opinions. It was just a suggestion for the potential resolution of this dispute. You can request for one at Wikipedia:Third opinion and if the request gets accepted, an uninvolved editor will give their opinion. StephenMacky1 (talk) 16:37, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: i dont think we need to request for wikipedia users to resolve such a small dispute, the current state with the naming is perfectly fine and i haven't seen Jingby objecting to it so i believe the dispute is resolved Gurther (talk) 22:46, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name order of  Bulgarian and Macedonian