Talk:Whanganui

message: The provided audio file file of someone speaking "Wanganui" (at the beginning of the article linked as "pronunciation") implies that this is the correct way to say it.
I suggest removing the Ogg file until the naming debate is over, or supplementing the article with other pronunciations. 202.78.240.7 (talk) 03:51, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest leaving it until any change takes place. The pronunciation of "Whanganui" is not very different from "Wanganui". Although many iwi pronounce "wh" as approximately "f", the local iwi does not. The closest English pronunciation is the "wh" of "what". The Māori Language Commission suggests that the change in pronunciation may not be noticeable to people not familiar with the Māori language.-gadfium 23:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The trouble with comparing the pronunciation of "wh" with that of English "what" is that English speakers also pronounce "what" both with and without the aspirate. You presumably mean with the aspirate.--Hugh7 (talk) 23:31, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Now that the change has taken place, this issue should also be addressed. My suggestion is that we provide two sound files; one for each spelling. Given that the pronunciation by the local iwi is not too different from the Wanganui one, his might help with diffusing the heated discussion (on this talk page, that is). It also serves the encyclopedic purpose of documenting what the differences are, and that the local iwi have a pronunciation that differs from the usual 'wh'. Schwede66 (talk) 19:09, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: As for "Wanganui", I would say most who are familiar with Māori pronunciation would go with /waŋanui/, with others opting for the more "English-sounding" /wɒŋəˈnuiː/, as per the audio file currently in place. As for "Whanganui", from what I can gather the local iwi pronounce it as something similar to  /ʍaŋanui/ or /hwaŋanui/, where other iwi would pronounce it /ɸaŋanui/ or even /faŋanui/, again with various "English-sounding" variants (/wɒŋəˈnuiː/, /fɒŋəˈnuiː/, /hwɒŋəˈnuiː/). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wh_(digraph)#W Xolodilnik (talk) 09:55, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Anglicised pronunciation in this video appears to favour a hard g, and emphasis on the first syllable, i.e. /ˈwɒŋgənui/  Xolodilnik (talk) 04:02, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Spelling and pronunciation are two totally separate things as any English speaker will tell you. The spelling is, and should be, 'Whanganui'. 'Whanga' is a Te Reo prefix/word. 'Wanga' is meaningless. The written form of Te Reo was devised after Māori unification. The oral tradition is, however, centuries old dating back to the time when Māori lived in separate village states each with their own dialect. The local iwi do pronounce and always have pronounced the name 'Wanganui' and that is the pronunciation that should be here. OrewaTel (talk) 02:55, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: As one who has very strong ties to Wanganui, I still regard the 'Whanganui' spelling as incorrect, & that spelling has very strong racist overtones. The people of Wanganui weren't consulted over the spelling change anyway! - (Aidan Work 05:48, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As one who also has very strong ties to Wanganui, I would prefer that someone other than you, anyone else, appointed themselves the defender of the faith. This talk page is for Wanganui the area/district. Note the spelling, without the "h" which you are bitching about. Also, when you claim that "the people of Wanganui weren't consulted" you reveal  very clearly where "very strong racist overtones" exist. Iwi were consulted (among others) but it is obvious to me they are not among your "people of Wanganui". What was that about "racist overtones"? Moriori 07:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Moriori,the proposal should have been put to a referendum, but Parliamentonly consulted a racist faction from the 2 Maori nations, which to me, smacks of racism. Jim Bolger caused a lot of anger among the people of Wanganui, especially in light of doing nothing to end the illegal occupation of Moutoa Gardens. My family are in agreement with me that Tariana Turia & Ken Mair should have been shot for their parts in trying to cause a bloodbath, which decent-minded British New Zealanders & Maoris certainly do not want! - (Aidan Work 03:27, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Has it ever occurred to you what POV means? Turia and Mair should have been shot? For trying to cause a bloodbath? You should recuse yourself from editing any Wikipedia articles re New  Zealand. Also, can you pay attention just for a little while? You inserted the subhead here which says Wanganui shouldn't have an "h" in it. How many times do you need to be told that the word Wanganui doesn't have the "h" in it. Got that? It doesn't have an "h" in it. Moriori 06:10, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Moriori, the debate is in reference to both the river & the national park, not the town! The idea that I should be banned from editing any New Zealand-related article is just plain ridiculous! What is wrong with expressing a viewpoint on a talk page? I have met Tariana Turia personally, & was racially abused by her & threatened by her low-life gang member pals when I was involved in opposing the illegal occupation of Moutoa Gardens. Boy, you are very forgetful. - (Aidan Work 01:51, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Firstly, for the last time, this page is Talk:Wanganui. It is NOT in reference to "both the river & the national park, not the town"  as you claim. Please read the name at the top of this page. Secondly, regarding my suggestion that you should recuse yourself from editing NZ related articles, I am even more convinced that you place Wikipedia in a perilous position. You have asserted that a (now) NZ Member of Parliament should have been shot for trying to cause a bloodbath.  I wonder how Wikipedia could ever try to defend your statement, which it "published", that this MP tried to "cause a bloodbath". Moriori 06:28, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sadly, as you may or may not know, your premonition turned out to be correct and Aidan Work was banned from wikipedia for sockpuppetry (and other offences). I believe his problematic editing was beyond just NZ related articles. P.S. For the benefit of future edits, what's wrong with expressing an opionion, any opinion, on a talk page is that it's against policy. Talk pages are for the express purpose of improving articles, not random rants Nil Einne (talk) 01:04, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Wanganui shouldn't have an 'h' in it.

message: The spelling will be changed but the choice of being pronounced the same is favourable.
[sarcasm]Also, PC FTW[/sarcasm]125.236.190.151 (talk) 09:40, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did you see the news tonight? (30/03/09) 

message: Now it's official. Citing the Minister:
"My expectation is that all official documents will be able to use either form of the spelling as the official city name. However, Crown agencies will be expected to move to the name Whanganui over time."
We should here clearly give both names in bold letters at the beginning, but the title of the article should reflect the way government agencies use it. --B. Jankuloski (talk) 23:30, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Can I ask a question? Because the government has not passed the legislation yet, they still are not using the Whanganui spelling. Why is it that Wikipedia becomes the first and only party to use it? Wipkipkedia (talk) 12:43, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That's wrong, the government is using it - e.g. here. XLerate (talk) 22:53, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice find!  Wipkipkedia (talk) 02:39, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The government may be using it (in this instance for a lottery appointment), but the fact that they also incorrectly use it to refer to Dot McKinnon being the Deputy Mayor of Whanganui when she is Deputy Mayor of Wanganui means  this cannot be taken as proof of anything, and that they are likely as confused as everyone else. Not sure what the tvnz weather link is supposed to demonstrate; it is Wanganui (as is the rest of tvnz.co.nz, tv3.co.nz, NZ Herald and the MetService), but perhaps it was Whanganui for a while when Wipkipkedia commented.Fan | talk 01:55, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: 
Decided


message: See discussion here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:52, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling of related category

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
*Comment  A word of caution about the search results quoted.  Anything prior to the name change in December 2009 (or thereabouts) is irrelevant.  We need to know what the common name is after 2009.  However, we have a convention for names in New Zealand, which is to use the version used by the New Zealand Geographic Board.  That poses special problems in this case, because neither the Government of New Zealand, nor the District Council, have adopted the Geographic Board's deliberations.  The Government has gone for a hybrid solution of Whanganui and Wanganui, but government agencies being required to use Whanganui, whilst the District Council is insisting on continuing to use Wanganui.  And I thought we got in a mess with names in Europe!  It might just be better to put any moves on hold for a year and see what pans out.  The article already explains the controversy over the two names in some detail.  Skinsmoke (talk) 15:50, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The government decides the official legal names of places, which is then typically used by the media, the public, and consequently Wikipedia. For example Whanganui River, which the government changed in 1991. XLerate (talk) 01:18, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Your first sentence is spot on there, however, the second is a false consequence - we do not use that name for the river because the government says so, but because that's what most people call it.  The important word is "consequently" - Wikipedia is a descriptive tertiary source.  That means we don't lead, we follow - when the new name has widespread consistent use among the media and the public at large, then we change here.  From the facts on the ground, it's abundantly and indisputably clear that this simply hasn't happened yet, therefore our move last December was horribly premature.  81.111.114.131 (talk) 01:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if it was premature, (which I do not believe), then what is wrong with that? Will continuing to use Whanganui harm Wikipedia? Moriori (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that it's even remotely relevant, but yes - it sets bad precedent.  81.111.114.131 (talk) 16:14, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: We are following precedent, not setting it. See our Kolkata, which was changed from Calcutta years ago. Also, we are not discussing "inclusionism versus deletionism" here (which is what NOHARM is basically about). Moriori (talk) 22:23, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, we're not following precedent.  The Kolkata name change was in 2001, yet our article was moved in 2005, by which time the name Kolkata had gained global currency.  Can you show us evidence that the form with the H has become the most commonly-used form in English?  81.111.114.131 (talk) 13:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I see where this is leading, but no, I'm fresh out of enthusiasm for circular argument. Moriori (talk) 06:12, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: So, in other words, you can't find any policy or precedent that supports the article being here?  81.111.114.131 (talk) 01:59, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: *Why is Wikipedia the only place spelling Whanganui? TVNZ, the Wanganui District Council, all the road signs are all Wanganui. It doesn't make sense to me. 219.89.245.42 (talk) 06:34, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: See above. There are numerous sources using the Wh spelling.-gadfium 08:39, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling

message: Why on earth is this semi-protected?  Reading the talk page, I can perhaps understand move protection, but what is up with this? 98.82.180.48 (talk) 16:52, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem was that people who disagreed with the name change made wholesale changes to the article against consensus. In an extreme case, someone appears to have made a change of most occurrences of "Whanganui" to "Wanganui", ignoring that some entities, such as the river, are almost universally given the "Wh" nowadays, and making a complete mess of the article. See . Shorter periods of semi-protection have failed to deter such people. There have also been cases of editors making search and replace changes of "Wanganui" to "Whanganui". I suggest you use  for changes you wish to make.-gadfium 19:57, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that makes sense.  Thanks for the answer. 98.82.180.48 (talk) 20:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected? 

message: In the introduction, this phrase is untrue. Both Wanganui and Whanganui are official spellings. Wipkipkedia (talk) 06:35, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've changed it to say "Although called Wanganui from 1854".-gadfium 04:13, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Although previously called Wanganui" 

message: I have protected this article from edits by new or anon editors. Jeepday (talk) 12:36, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Protected

message: Where is the stress in the Maori? First syllable? 
The English has a hard gee in the news coverage, apart from the one guy who says "WONG-ə-noy", so I put that back in. — kwami (talk) 00:46, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  pronunciation 

message: Mayor Charles Mackay needs his own page; the link directs to one of the two other Charles Mackays.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Giantflightlessbirds (talk • contribs) 07:09, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles Mackay 

message: I am editing the statement which makes the claim that Whanganui is the only New Zealand city to ban gang insignia.  Gang insignia have now been banned in all public places in New Zealand (swimming pools, schools, libraries, museums, government buildings, etc).
http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/gang-patch-ban-bill-about-to-be-passed-2013080705
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11107202  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sorrowawaits (talk • contribs) 07:26, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  The references were automatically deleted by a bot, so I suggest rewriting the section to indicate what was new about the Whanganui legislation, but putting it in context with the law change in NZ as a whole. The NZ Herald reference seems a good one. The nickname for the legislation “Laws Law” seems to not be widely used: Googling "Laws Law Wanganui" turns up no examples but this Wikipedia article, So unless we can find more examples I suggest that part of the section be removed. Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 17:54, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gang Insignia 

message: A community editing group in Whanganui, Wiki Wednesday, has been recently formed and is enthusiastically trying to improve this page and some related ones; I'm group coordinator. Could I ask editors to be supportive of this, and try to fix or tweak any mistakes they see rather that necessarily revert? I will do my best to tidy things up as well. I'm encouraging them to use Talk pages and make incremental edits rather than wholesale changes. Many thanks.  Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 17:53, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing by Whanganui Wiki Wednesday group 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Whanganui. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090923172253/http://www.linz.govt.nz:80/placenames/consultation-decisions/a-to-z/whanganui/index.aspx to http://www.linz.govt.nz/placenames/consultation-decisions/a-to-z/whanganui/index.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 12:26, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Whanganui. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131005080217/http://www.wanganui.govt.nz/AboutCouncil/Election2013.asp to http://www.wanganui.govt.nz/AboutCouncil/Election2013.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090925144902/http://www.linz.govt.nz:80/placenames/about-geographic-board/nzgb-news-notices/2009/0330-nzgb-wanganui-decision/index.aspx to http://www.linz.govt.nz/placenames/about-geographic-board/nzgb-news-notices/2009/0330-nzgb-wanganui-decision/index.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:44, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've been editing the list of notable people of Whanganui, adding Jane Winstone, trimming the professions/claim to fame to a standard length, and removing a few. Carl Takarangi-Hutchby and Doreen Bennett, both listed as " international advocate at UN for Human Rights", could be Wikipedia-notable – a quick search only turns up a couple of mentions in the news, though – so perhaps it would be better for someone to create their pages, establish notability with links to secondary sources, and then add them to the list. Mark Christiansen seems to be a candidate for notability, based on news coverage. It would also be good to go through the list establishing their exact link to Whanganui: Victoria Ransom's article had no mention of Whanganui, and all I could find was that she grew up near Bulls (which I added), so presumably Whanganui is where she went to high school. Is that enough to make her a Notable Whanganui Person? Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 10:27, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think User:Gadfium put it well: "Others will be removed if suitable references are not added (or articles on them written) to establish notability." So maybe link to people who have an obvious Whanganui connection in their Wikipedia page, and if they don't have a Wikipedia page make one for them. If the new page survives challenges to its notability, then they're a notable Whanganui person. See WP:N for definitions of notability. You're welcome to have your own definitions of notability, and to start your own blog or website to highlight those notable people. But we're editing Wikipedia, so let's use its definitions. Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 10:06, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable people of Whanganui 

message: You have raised again the subject of schools, should they be there?. Secondary schools are on Whanganui's page, that follows the Gisborne, Oamaru pages. Do you have a problem with the layout? (easily changed) or the content? 03:10, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't set the rules. Go ahead and make the schools section, following the model of other cities about our size (maybe pick cities in the USA or UK rather than New Zealand as a model). Also, conversations on the Talk page are really with all of Wikipedia, not just with me. Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 10:23, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

text: I have reduced the section and have no further plans.Riverviewhouse (talk) 00:56, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schools Whanganui 

message: I suggest that the aforementioned article be merged into this article, as it is a small suburb of this city. Per WP:NPLACE. --MrClog (talk) 09:18, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Gonville, New Zealand]] 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Te Ao Hou Marae. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 December 5#Te Ao Hou Marae until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  signed, Rosguill talk 19:31, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Te Ao Hou Marae" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: I added this link because "freezing works" is not such a well known term. In an encyclopedia with a global readership, many readers won't know what it means. Why did you remove the link? —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 14:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe instead of linking to a redirect, create a piped link to Slaughterhouse#Freezing_works? Daveosaurus (talk) 19:37, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If a link is useful, it should be included. There are very few reasons for avoiding a redirect. I can't think of one that would require us to avoid a redirect in this case. If an editor has a personal dislike to redirects, they can create a piped link, but the removal of a redirect just because such a personal dislike is not appropriate. Schwede66 22:39, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, we should link to the redirect per WP:NOTBROKEN. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 02:45, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is the phrase 'Freezing Works' was linked but when you followed the link, it went to Slaughterhouse. Freezing Works and Slaughterhouse are different. In a Slaughterhouse, animals are slaughtered whereas in a Freezing Works food is frozen. Whilst some Slaughterhouses freeze animals on the premises, that is not always the case. Some Freezing Works freeze carcases and these may be associated with a Slaughterhouse but others buy the produce from one or more independent Slaughterhouses. Other Freezing Works freeze fruit and vegetables and are associated with pack houses. To simplify, 'Slaughterhouse' and 'Freezing Works' are two different beasts and a link labelled 'Freezing Works' that routes to 'Slaughterhouse' is wrong. OrewaTel (talk) 03:30, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case, should the  redirect to Slaughterhouse#Freezing_works instead of Slaughterhouse?-gadfium 03:48, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  It does now. Daveosaurus (talk) 05:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to [[Freezing works]] 

message: The question has been asked.
To quote from New Zealand Gazetteer (https://gazetteer.linz.govt.nz/place/7006)
<Blockquote>Whanganui
This is an official name
Current Status: Assigned
Feature Type: City</Blockquote>
Does that constitute an answer? OrewaTel (talk) 20:54, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  City or Town? 

message: At present, this article does not appear to give sufficient emphasis to the importance of the river for the early settlement and commercial success of the town, or to the on-going influence of the river on the town, both physically and culturally. While there is a separate article Whanganui River, there is a need for appropriate summary content in this article, and a "main" template link or similar to put the importance of the river in context in this article. The history (in particular) and also the geography of the city need stronger links to the river and the associated article. This proposal may require some improvement to Whanganui River as well - particularly expanding the lead. Any offers to help out ??..Marshelec (talk) 08:18, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Importance of the river to the settlement