Talk:Kachina

message: Although I'm sure it's difficult to translate Native American metaphysics into English, from the point of view of a newbie like me  this article doesn't do a very good job of defining what a kachina is.  The first sentence, which should define it, says only "Kachinas exist in western Pueblo cosmology and religious practice."  The second paragraph doesn't help much: kachinas can be "...anything which exists in the natural world or cosmos."  I understand not wanting to offend another culture's religion by offering a simplistic facile explanation, but surely the term can be narrowed down more than this. --ChetvornoTALK 03:39, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Defined kachinas as "spirit beings" in first sentence, and added some description.  --ChetvornoTALK 02:43, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is a kachina? 

message: The sentence "Although not worshipped, each is viewed as a powerful being who, if given veneration and respect, can use their particular power for human good (...)" is not clear. The article on worship defines the word as an act of religious devotion usually directed at a diety, so I fail to see why katchinas are "not worshipped". I would guess this is a pragmatic explanation used by practitioners to make their beliefs more palatable in a monotheistic environment. But should it be repeated in an encyclopedic article?
11:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I wrote that sentence.  I have no expertise in this field, nor am I of the Pueblo culture, so I tried to be sensitive and use the correct terminology about a religion I am unfamiliar with.  I read on some Native American site that kachinas are not "worshipped"; I will try to find a source.  There can be many gradations of veneration and devotion in religions, and the term "worship" can be a sensitive one.    Catholics have many rituals which venerate saints and the Virgin Mary, but will be offended if they are described as "worshipping" them; they only "worship" God.   I believe the same applies to Moslems and Mohammed, and Buddhists and the Buddha. --ChetvornoTALK 12:43, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Worship can be a loaded term, and probably has some specific implications that vary depending on context and the field (e.g. anthropologists probably mean something different than scholars of religion, or religious leaders).  I think the broad implication is correct, that people don't pray to katchinas or see them as deities in the Judeo-Christian or ancient European sense, although there are some ritual supplications.  We've identified the three main ways they are conceived - as a race of spirits, as human dancers, and as dolls, all of which embody in a spiritual and educational sense various things from the world.  It's hard to be definitive.  There aren't a whole lot of sources, and the sources we do have (particularly the older ones) are often quite mistaken or fanciful.  Also, it's tricky to generalize about what a group of people believe, particularly an ancient but evolving indigenous culture... one with many different roles, clans, etc., that is now simultaneously part of the modern world.  To run with the Catholic example, do Catholics truly believe in the miracles and appearances of the saints?  And where do you put your barometer to measure that - do you ask someone in the Vatican, an American Catholic, or a villager in South America?  Do you go to the old texts from the era when a particular saint lived?  I don't think one's just trying to make a mysterious religion more palatable by saying that people view these spirits in a metaphorical sense, maybe they're trying to figure that out for themselves too.  I made a few minor adjustments, btw.  - Wikidemon (talk) 13:55, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worhipped or not? 

message: I would like to see a source for the etymology that katsina comes from qatsina meaning "life bringer."   The Hopi Dictionary (1998) does not connect the two words, and the definition and the dictionary's examples for qatsina don't support the interpretation being put on it in this article.
qatsina  1.  make a life (of)...  e.g., when he made a life of corruption....  2. make a big event, a commotion...
I suspect we're looking at a case of folk etymology, projecting a plausible idea back on the word.  
--SteveMcCluskey (talk) 20:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Qatsina''  → ''Katsina''? 

message: Anonymous user 23.31.81.101 added extensive material at 21:06 on 12 March 2019 without citing any sources. My initial reaction was to revert the entire edit, but I chose instead to flag it as needed citations.
User:Modernist has repeatedly reverted the flag. 
Either the flag stays, or the edit by 23.31.81.101 goes. --Kent G. Budge (talk) 14:25, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced recent material