Talk:Ethanol fuel in Brazil

message: Flex-fuel cars drive record Brazil Dec auto sales:
"[...] In December [2005], flex-fuel cars registered record monthly sales of 120,000 units, up 15 percent from November in the category. After the technology was launched in early 2003, sales of flex-fuel models have grown steadily and accounted for 71 percent of total vehicle sales in December. In December 2004, flex-fuel sales were 29 percent of total vehicle sales."
*Article at Reuters
--Pinnecco 15:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: I think this article is getting into shape, but there are many PoVs and texts that are about Brazil's first introductions of Alcohol fuel (the late 70s and 80s). For example, the caption under the poster warning about mixing fuels is old and outdated, and perhaps it would be better if we remove it (although I updated the caption text before).
Here are current information about Ethanol in Brazil (report from VEJA):
* Last December [2005], 73% of all cars sold in Brazil worked with flex-fuel engines.
* With the success of flex-fuel cars, Brasil is now the first country to make VIABLE the production and consume of an alternative energy fuel.
* Thanks to the Ethanol, Brazil is about to be auto-suficient in its oil production. This is a huge leap considering that about 10 years ago Brazil had to import half of the petrol it consumed. This success is also possible based on the cutting edge technology developed by Petrobras for deep-water exploration, since more than 65% of Brazil's oild fields are 400 meters under the sea. Brazil's auto suficiency will be met with the introduction of Petrobras P-50 platform which will happen in the next weeks.
* The return of Ethanol fuel in Brazil (thanks to the introduction of flex-engines) helped the country to reduce its historical dependency of imported oil. Only this year, Brazil will produce 18 bilion litters of alcohol and will keep its leadership as the biggest Ethanol producer.
* Brazil is about to start exporting Ethanol to Japan
--Pinnecco 10:25, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Present Day 

message: "Also, Brazil would probably want to use its own wood - however, the Amazon rainforest is threatened enough as it is and should not be tampered with further." I agree with that statement but I don't think that kind of language is suitable for an encyclopedia. It's not our business to write about what should and what souldn't be done but to report the facts. If there's no objections in the next few days I'll delete that line. --cassini83 18:35, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed! --Pinnecco 20:21, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amazon rainforest 

message: While I think that there are some bias in most parts of this article i could not find a discussion about it so it is impossible to know what is the NPOV dispute in that section. Feel free to restate the NPOV violation but state why you thing that there is a bias on that section of the text. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alvaroludolf (talk • contribs) 15:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Unfortunately, despite this cost differential in production..."  That's a pretty clear POV, which continues through the paragraph.  None of what I see in that paragraph is factually false, but what does it omit?  Sadly, I don't know that -- the authors of the article are clearly better informed than I am.  I'd be tempted to remove 'unfortunately' except that then the NPOV violation is harder to spot.  The next few sections are also dubiously neutral (albeit also quite well-written). Bhudson (talk) 20:34, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of NPOV 

message: * Miami Herald: U.S., Brazil should lead biofuel plan (OPINION)
* Carbon News and Info: US, Brazil plan biofuel alliance
* Washington Post: Latin America -- the 'Persian Gulf' of Biofuels?
--Pinnecco 09:53, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some recent articles Feb/07 which might be worth to read 

message: "This is small by today's standards, about one third the size of new plants. Finland's fifth nuclear plant currently under construction is for 1,600 MW. This plant's expected cost of electricity production is EUR 2.37 c/kWh which for Finland was cheaper than coal or natural gas at 2003 prices, not counting carbon emission costs or penalties for the carbon based fuels. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf76.htm"
We are talking about Ethanol fuel in Brazil. I don't think we need to know the Euro cost of nuclear energy in Finland... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anarchman (talk • contribs) 21:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This  blurb doesn't seem relevant 

message: Why is info about electricity generation from bagasse in this article about ethanol?
It's OK for info about the use of bagasse by-products in the use of fermentation and sale of excess electricity from fermentation plants, but not this large section about this.  I think it's out of place.
I think that the info on bagasse be moved to the sparse article on bagasse, and that this article on ethanol use in Brazil then reference and link to that.
If nobody objects, I'll be doing that sometime in the future.
Thanks.
This is because Bagasse energy production makes the cycle sustainable. nihil (talk) 13:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why all of this irrelevant info on Bagasse in this article? 

message: I want to make sure I understand what I am reading here:
sugarecane: 344 million metric tonnes (50% sugar, 50% alcohol)
sugar:	23 million tonnes (30% is exported)
ethanol:	14 million m³ (7.5 anhydrous, 6.5 hydrated; 2.4% is exported
I believe this says that there were 344 mt of cane produced, and that it was used 50/50 for sugar and ethanol. In other words, 172 mt were used for ethanol production. Is this correct? Can someone tell me for sure one way or the other?
My goal here is to answer the question "how much sugarcane is needed to produce a million litres of ethanol". This seemingly important number isn't found in that simple form in any of the articles I've looked at here!
Maury (talk) 13:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the number you're looking for is 85 liters/tonne.  That's the conversion factor a Brazil official presented at a U.S. Senate hearing last year.  (see , a slide near the end of the presentation compares corn-ethanol liter/tonne to sugar cane's).  This number is roughly consistent with the 14000 liter/172 tonnes implied in this article. InNuce (talk) 19:43, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent, thank you! I would like to put this somewhere easily accessible, but I'm not sure which article would be most appropriate -- it seems a little off topic here. Maury (talk) 22:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, do you have a similar number for tonnes of sugar processed from one tonne of cane? I ask because the only measurements of production I can find outside Brazil and the US are for sugar production (ie, Cuba's peak was 80 million tonnes) and I'm trying to understand how much cane there is. Maury (talk) 23:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Understanding the graph 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Brazilianethanolposter.JPG

message: I have been slowly improving the content of this article and today I began major editing and reorganizing to improve and to update the article in order to revamp it to WP:Good Article quality during the following weeks. So collaborations are welcome, as well as suggestions for improvement, and I kindy request to participating editors to please provide WP:RS in all edits. Grammar and style corrections are welcome as English is a second language to me. Some WP format improvements I will work along the was, such as overlinking and sorting the refs in numerical order.--Mariordo (talk) 20:13, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you still need a copy-edit? I'd be happy to help--and then do the GA review, if that's okay. Merpin (talk) 17:26, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I already did some nitpicking, but because of limitations with English, please go ahead, your help is welcome. I will be standing by to work on any improvements you recommend. Thank you very much.--Mariordo (talk) 23:42, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Revamping the article for GA

message: "(...)with a zero theoretical net contribution, however this cycle is never closed since it is not possible to utilize 100% of the crop energy content."
You don't have to utilize 100% of the crop energy content so that the carbon cycle is closed. If that was the case, the whole concept of "sustainable energy" would simply not exist!!! nihil (talk) 13:21, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  As per your comment I deleted that sentence to avoid confusion or any fallacy, though that caveat is in the source provided.--Mariordo (talk) 00:31, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fallacy 

message: The 4th reference is a broken link.
The energy balance of sugar cane ethanol varies on the article one reads. Here, it is claimed to be "7 times" that of corn ethanol, but at 1.3, sugar cane ethanol would have to be 9:1. The EROI page states that the EROI is about 5:1, about the same as shale oil. It appears that many ethanol articles use old information, a mix of sources, and do not use any particular number. The concensus for corn ethanol seems to be 1.3:1, but what about sugar cane ethanol? I generally hear 5-8:1. It seems that nearly every ethanol article needs updated to reflect more recent studies. 174.101.99.191 (talk) 13:43, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have restored the url, same website just different address. And yes, several sources/researchers have came up with different values, but all agree that sugarcane ethanol has a higher energy balance. It is not a matter of the research being dated, but the differences in the actual value arise because of the different assumptions each researcher makes, and the fuel pathways. For example, sugarcan ethanol has a certain value in Brazil, but if exported to California you have to add the carbon footprint of the ship carrying the fuel by sea to California. See here just from the same source, and one of the most reliable - CARB - the different carbon intensities, for both sugarcane and corn:  http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/lu_tables_11282012.pdf. Cheers.--Mariordo (talk) 16:57, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken link an contradictions with other ethanol articles 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Reference : Sebastien Pouliot & Bruce A. Babcock, 2014. "Impact of Ethanol Mandates on Fuel Prices when Ethanol and Gasoline are Imperfect Substitutes," Center for Agricultural and Rural Development (CARD) Publications 14-wp551, Center for Agricultural and Rural Development (CARD) at Iowa State University.
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thread_title:  Dr. Pouliot's comment on this article 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070216022820/http://www.biofuelwatch.org.uk:80/background5.php to http://www.biofuelwatch.org.uk/background5.php
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*Added  tag to http://www.unica.com.br/noticias/show.asp?nwsCode=F5A8F9AC-BBC9-4944-A978-2DC2930066E5
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 34 external links on Ethanol fuel in Brazil. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080528051443/http://www.agrocombustibles.org/conceptos/CepalBiocombustiblesLac2004.pdf to http://www.agrocombustibles.org/conceptos/CepalBiocombustiblesLac2004.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716023742/http://www.abril.com.br/noticias/economia/brasil-alcanca-marca-10-milhoes-carros-flex-940397.shtml to http://www.abril.com.br/noticias/economia/brasil-alcanca-marca-10-milhoes-carros-flex-940397.shtml
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://br.invertia.com/noticias/noticia.aspx?idNoticia=200807152306_ABR_77211977
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.runet.edu/~wkovarik/papers/International.History.Ethanol.Fuel.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081006165850/http://veja.abril.com.br/idade/exclusivo/petroleo/130679.html to http://veja.abril.com.br/idade/exclusivo/petroleo/130679.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002339093_brazilfuel17.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://veja.abril.com.br/arquivo_veja/capa_24051989.shtml
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.hojenoticias.com.br/negocios/vendas-de-veiculos-flex-no-brasil-sobem-311-em-julho-ant-2008/
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.saopaulo.sp.gov.br/sis/lenoticia.php?id=90442
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120224041653/http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Carros/0%2C%2CMRP1037219-9658%2C00.html to http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Carros/0,,MRP1037219-9658,00.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-03-13/brazil-ethanol-slows
*Added archive http://arquivo.pt/wayback/20160516175953/http://info.abril.com.br/noticias/tecnologias-verdes/2013/11/etanol-e-usado-hoje-em-apenas-23-dos-carros.shtml to http://info.abril.com.br/noticias/tecnologias-verdes/2013/11/etanol-e-usado-hoje-em-apenas-23-dos-carros.shtml
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*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.anfavea.com.br/cartas/Carta308.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ethanolretailer.com/fyi-newsletter/volume-1-issue-16/
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*Corrected formatting/usage for http://world-wire.com/news/0904230003.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://blogs.ft.com/energy-source/2010/09/27/brazils-ethanol-producers-look-past-the-us-downbeat-mood-on-renewables-amid-economic-difficulties-to-its-future-as-a-big-market/
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.saopaulo.sp.gov.br/sis/lenoticia.php?id=93002&c=6
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*Corrected formatting/usage for http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTDEC/EXTRESEARCH/EXTWDRS/EXTWDR2008/0%2C%2CcontentMDK%3A21501336~pagePK%3A64167689~piPK%3A64167673~theSitePK%3A2795143%2C00.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.biofuelwatch.org.uk/background5.php
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://ies.lbl.gov/iespubs/46120.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.inee.org.br/down_loads/forum/1B-15-30%20Plinio%20Nastari%20DATAGRO.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.fbds.org.br/en/sommaire-ingles.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ethanol fuel in Brazil. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080421113313/http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/blog/climate/biofuels-green-dream-or-climate-change-nightmare-20070509 to http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/blog/climate/biofuels-green-dream-or-climate-change-nightmare-20070509
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ethanol fuel in Brazil. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110615193054/http://veja.abril.com.br/agencias/ae/brasil/detail/2009-09-18-533930.shtml to http://veja.abril.com.br/agencias/ae/brasil/detail/2009-09-18-533930.shtml
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I don't think community reassessment in necessary. Extremely out of date, 2008 median age of sources. Half of article will probably need to be rewritten for it to be up-to-date. The long quotes are also a bit questionable in terms of copyright I believe. FemkeMilene (talk) 19:53, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: GAR