Talk:Diner (1982 film)

message: :Image:DinerDVD.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:DinerDVD.jpg

message: A user added a detailed plot summary yesterday from here, a version dug up from 2008. It was removed. That 2008 content was the only edit the original creator ever made, so could be a copyvio, but I can't find it.
The user feels that the detailed plot summary is better than what is in the article now. Thoughts?
The posts that led me here:
*User talk:Housewifehader#Diner (film)
*User talk:Anna Frodesiak#Diner (film)
Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:06, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a copyvio whether or not it was lifted from somewhere else, because it's too just detailed.  Fair use allows summarization and description, but when you get to the level of detail of that enormous hunk of material, you start infringing on the rights of the copyright holder to make derivative works.  Add to that that such a long plot summary unbalances the article, and it's just not going to fly.  Someone can restore it if they like, but I guarantee another editor will come along to remove it on the same grounds that I did -- it just might take a while until someone notices.Anyway, we have a bunch of guidelines which cover this: WP:PLOT, WP:Manual of Style (writing_about_fiction)#Plot summaries and WP:JUSTPLOT is helpful as well. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:12, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I've never seen a user prepare content like that and add it as a single edit, and never edit again. But so far, we can't prove it's a copyvio. As for adding to the article, I agree with you there too. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:53, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well one big problem as far as finding plot info. on this particular story is that this film was not adapted from a novel. Parts of the dialogue were even improvised-so the film itself is the primary reference and contains the plot, unlike an adaptation where it would be a lot easier to find summaries.Since the film is pretty fresh in my mind, I will say that what I re-posted was not a scene-by-scene derivative work, like many other plot synopsis I have seen on WP, it seemed to be trying to organize some of the key moments in the story on a day-by-day basis. -But there were many scenes left-out. It could use some work, unfortunately on WP, I wouldn't be surprised if many editors took that to mean that they needed to ADD the parts that are not included lol. I have been studying the MOS as it applies to writing film plots, and I think that there are a couple of things that need to be considered. Most importantly is that this film was an Oscar nominee, and won some notable awards, so I think that it's reason for having an article beyond a stub or so is established. Also, I checked the page views--what I would consider "a lot" and consistently "a lot".Personally, I would never want to write what I would consider a derivative plot summary, and I would grudgingly also consider that summary derivative, but I also consider the bulk of the plot sections that I read on WP as derivative in the strictest sense. And compared to the majority of plots that I have read on WP, this one in my opinion is not "as"-derivative/infringing as most of them. Maybe I've been looking at a lot of film plots that are public domain, since I look up a lot of older films ('30s era) ???? I don't know. But I do know that when I look-up an extensively detailed plot I usually get a lot out of it as a WP user and reader, especially if I have missed a part of the film or if I have literally, "lost the plot" while watching a movie. Plots are very useful to readers and I have never read one that caused me to not watch a movie or stop watching one. Sometimes being lost while watching a movie is enough to make me want to stop watching but a detailed WP plot usually can help me to get on track. I guess what I am saying is that although I can't abide copyright violations, I just don't feel like the copyright holder gets anything but a "win" as far as detailed plot summaries are concerned here. And as far as Diner is concerned, the film's timeline was pretty choppy so I really appreciated the clues that were in the missing summary.Housewifehader (talk) 08:51, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Intriguing thread here and on your individual Talk pages. Thanks to you all!  –  – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 14:49, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Detailed plot summary 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Diner (film). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120807115545/http://www.playbill.com/news/article/168774-Musical-Diner-Will-Open-on-Broadway-April-10-2013-Following-Fall-Workshop-Expect-an-Intimate-Show to http://www.playbill.com/news/article/168774-Musical-Diner-Will-Open-on-Broadway-April-10-2013-Following-Fall-Workshop-Expect-an-Intimate-Show
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140319134649/http://www.playbill.com/news/article/188949-Signatures-25th-Season-Will-Include-Sheryl-Crows-Diner-World-Premieres-from-John-Kander-Nick-Blaemire-and-More to http://www.playbill.com/news/article/188949-Signatures-25th-Season-Will-Include-Sheryl-Crows-Diner-World-Premieres-from-John-Kander-Nick-Blaemire-and-More
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: That was Modell who gave the heartfelt speech at the end of the film.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.122.216.158 (talk) 02:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot