Talk:Character design of Final Fantasy

message: The source for increasingly effeminate, androgynous characters (#5) mentions nothing of the sort   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.20.177.60 (talk) 04:36, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  source not supportive 

message: This article has the potential to become infested with original research. Since the article is brand new, I believe we should develop it in the most correct way we can, by adding things only if a source is provided at the same time. Kariteh 08:59, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's do it correctly 

message: The old Races page leads to Spira. Or, alternatingly, to this page. Neither has information on the races, and it's still not clear where to look for information on the Seeqs or Shumi.
The old links to Races need to be cleaned up and fixed, and somehow (probably just on the talk page for this article, or even Races' talk page), it needs to be made clear where the old sections went.KrytenKoro 17:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All races were moved to their individual world/game articles.  Shumi was moved to Final Fantasy VIII, but it was deemed too trivial to appear in the game article, as were many of the races in many of the games.  However, it may appear in World of Final Fantasy VIII when it finally gets created.  Seeqs similarly can be found in Ivalice.  The old Races page only redirects here, but individual races that used to have their own articles I redirected to the new locations (Hopefully I got them all).  The old links, if we missed any, will just have to be cleaned up as we encounter them.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 17:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where'd it go, pt. deuce 

message: What is listed as plot elements tend to be characteristics of RPGs in general, no specifically the Final Fantasy series.  Perhaps this could be deleted? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ngaskill (talk • contribs) 03:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It needs to be rewritten, not deleted.  Many of FF's Story themes are direct inspirations from Star Wars with the concept of Evil Empire and a small Rebel band.  I read this somewhere in an interview, so I know sources for this can be found.  This is just one example of the things that need to be mentioned in this section.  There are elements that are unique and/or characteristic to Final Fantasy, we need to find sources for them and insert them.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 16:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot Elements

message: "The protagonists of the Nomura-designed Final Fantasy games usually have a name alluding to or directly related to meteorological phenomena or celestial bodies."
I propose that this sentence be removed. It's not a common theme of Final Fantasy, but a common theme of Nomura. This theme exists in Kingdom Hearts for instance, with Sora ("Sky"). Kariteh 08:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Which could be a reference to the Final Fantasies that it is derived from.  Does Nomura use meteorological names in any games that are not related/spin-off/gaiden to FF?  If not, then it is a theme of Final Fantasy, just like the moogle.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 14:35, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Shiki's name in It's a Wonderful World (video game) means "four seasons". Kariteh 15:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So it does.  If that's the only example, I would be hesitant to jump to conclusions. I think it should stay here, but we can mention that it is a quirk associated with Nomura if we can find a source for it.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 17:54, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meteorological names 

message: The reason I removed "Final Fantasy Adventure" from the "Common Themes of Final Fantasy" is because "Final Fantasy Adventure" is actually not a Final Fantasy game. It is originally "Seiken Densetsu" in Japan (a part of the Mana series) and was renamed Final Fantasy only to use the brand's name recognition in North America.
:You have no idea what you're talking about. Seiken Densetsu is just a shortened title. The full title of the game in Japan was Seiken Densetsu: Final Fantasy Gaiden. Check Final Fantasy Adventure, check gaiden, and just check your facts next time. Kariteh 21:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree with Kariteh.  Final Fantasy Adventure is a Final Fantasy, if only a Gaiden.  The Seiken Densetsu series came after FF Adventure and is based off of it, not the other way around.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 15:40, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose that I am more in line to link a page about the "Common themes of Final Fantasy" to what the Final Fantasy series is in its present, rather than trying to link a game that is now currently regarded as the predecessor to its own flagship series of games. Seiken Densetsu resembles Final Fantasy only in name, and virtually every other aspect of the game, from its design to its character themes, do not reoccur in other games in the Final Fantasy series. In any case, thanks for the polite correction, Nicholai. 24.69.96.108 07:23, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Similarity of an episode to the rest of the series is totally irrelevant. "Final Fantasy" is a brand, and FFAdventure has been released under that brand in both Japan and America. Besides, FFAdventure definitely has tons of similarities with FF, from the sprites to Chocobos and weapon and armor names. This is an article dealing with common themes of the Final Fantasy, so all notable themes which are common in several Final Fantasy games have to be mentioned. FF:The Spirits Within is an FF, and so is FFAdventure. The fact that FFAdventure is also the predecessor to a distinct series doesn't change the fact that it was an FF game, is an FF game, and will continue to be an FF game. If you had read the links I've given you above, you would have seen that Seiken Densetsu: Final Fantasy Gaiden was recently remade for mobile phones as part of the World of Mana series. Yes, the game still has Final Fantasy in its title and is part of World of Mana at the same time. And unlike Sword of Mana, this new version of the game totally keeps all its Final Fantasy themes and references (Chocobo, item names, etc.), and even actually added more similarities to FF (the hero now looks like an FFI Warrior). Kariteh 12:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kariteh, please don't WP:BITE the newcomers.  Polite corrections should suffice.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 16:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final Fantasy Adventure is not a Final Fantasy Game 

message: I had been preparing an article entitled User:Deckiller/Gameplay of Final Fantasy a few months ago, but it's not something we need for a while. Thus, I merged relevent info (the recurring gameplay elements) into this article so that we can redirect the abysmal Final Fantasy items; that'll keep the information preserved in the edit history so we can start from scratch with a Gameplay of Final Fantasy article in the future. — Deckiller 18:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merged info from my sandbox

message: I've split Chocobo into its own article as per the latest WP:FF consensus. The remaining section needs to be trimmed a little more to be shorter a different than the article. Kariteh 07:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that Moogles need an article.--64.10.60.176 (talk) 16:00, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Chocobo article

message: Why does "Races of Final Fantasy" redirect here if this page has nothing to do with it?
:"Races of" would be a common theme, however there are no common races beyond Humans and the occasional dwarves, unless you count moogles which are already detailed here.  So this is a logical redirection spot, though it does need some sort of explanation, probably a Demography section that briefly outlines the info?  Also, this page is actually a product of fixing the old Races article, even if it has gone into a completely new direction.  --ΔαίδαλοςΣ 15:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ?

message: It doesn't look like there is anywhere to put this now, but it turns out that the Continental Circus is also called the Fahrenheit.KrytenKoro 05:45, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Continental Circus 

message: Please, please tell me someone was just trying to be funny when they added that paragraph on moogle reproduction in the article. When has that ever been said in the games or by a reliable source? Ravenwolf Zero 19:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was a vandal's failed attempt in humor. Reverted twice, the latest by a very helpful editor. — Blue。 09:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moogles 

message: :Image:Moogle FFXI.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Moogle FFXI.jpg

message: :Image:Final Fantasy VI Airship.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Final Fantasy VI Airship.png

message: I think it would be appropriate to split out the information in this article into Gameplay of Final Fantasy (similar to Gameplay of Pokémon) and Universe of Final Fantasy (similar to Universe of The Legend of Zelda). 
The Gameplay of Final Fantasy article would have a better hope of reaching GA-status one day, since common gameplay elements would probably have a lot of good research out there. It would be a good place to summarize how the battle system evolved, and the use of experience points, and so on. 
The Universe of Final Fantasy would include more information about the common plot elements, as well as the common elements like airships and crystals. I'm not as optimistic that this would be a great article, but I think it would be a decent way to organize some of these disparate "common elements". Randomran (talk) 17:26, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But the question I have is, if the article has trouble now with a wider scope, what hope do the articles have split into two? They will then have less references possible per article... Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:16, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think this will pull out the quality article we could write for gameplay of Final Fantasy. But like I said, I'm less optimistic about Universe of Final Fantasy. Actually, maybe it would be good to merge the item/character/plot stuff into the main Final Fantasy series article. But I think the gameplay of Final Fantasy article would have a clearer scope, and thus be easier to improve. Randomran (talk) 03:24, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  splitting this article 

message: Since most of this article focuses on characters / races / monsters / names, perhaps this article should become Character design of Final Fantasy, or even Recurring characters in Final Fantasy. The only section that would be out of place is the "Plot" section... it's in rough shape, but it could be merged to the main series article (Final Fantasy). There's a lot of value to giving articles a clear scope, because it makes information easier to find (and edit/improve!), and it helps to prevent WP:OR. Randomran (talk) 17:45, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-organization / merge: characters? 

message: The "Zantetsuken" article was deleted, and now redirects here.  Why?  "Zantetsuken" is a common Final Fantasy element, true, but it's not exclusive to Final Fantasty: a sword with the same name appears in Enix's Soul Blazer, and the 1970s anime Lupin III, and, more importantly, swords made by the real-life (albeit little-known) swordsmith Yasuhiro Kobayashi (not to be confused with the musician - the swordsmith died in the 1980s) were called Zantetsuken, long before they ever appeared in a video game.  Zantetsuken shouldn't redirect here any more than Excalibur or Masamune should.  At worst, there should be a disambiguation link somewhere.  Especially since the Final Fantasy versions of Zantetsuken don't actually appear on this page anywhere. - Wrassedragon (talk) 19:18, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Create that disambig yourself, then? — Blue。 19:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zantetsuken? 

message: There's a "citation needed" tag on Yuna's name meaning "moon". Here you go: http://www.aboutnames.ch/japanese.htm 91.107.164.199 (talk) 22:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yuna 

message: Is it ok if i add information on the purposes of moogles in kingdom hearts series? in kingdom hearts 1 and 2 they were used for synthesize items and sometimes sell the material needed for synthesis. in Kingdom hearts chain of memories they were used as a shop to sell cards to you or you selling cards to them in exchange for points. they will be returning to kingdom hearts 358/2 days but in organization XII cloaks from kingdom hearts chain of memories and 2.UserRosen Lorena 17:34, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kingdom hearts moogles info 

message: i believe moogles deserve a seperate page, just like chocobos have. theres alot of information and if we find external links it can be official. also moogles have some characteristics that are differentiate eachother from different final fantasy and other series.UserRosen Lorena 17:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now, the entire moogles section is completely unreferenced. If you could find those references, though, then we would be able to split the moogle section into its own article without it being deleted/redirected. I see that you're a relatively new user. Do you know how our references work, and understand our requirements for reliable research? Randomran (talk) 18:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  regarding moogles 

message: Elements of Final Fantasy that don't have anything to do with character can be found either at the main Final Fantasy article or the Gameplay of Final Fantasy article. This article has taken on a more focused scope, aiming at recurring characters (rather than focusing on an exhaustive list of every character in the series). For that reason, I think it would be suitable to merge in Monsters of Final Fantasy at some point. It's roughly the same size as this article, and the two articles combined would come in at about 75k -- and that's before cleaning up and summarizing them. It would certainly make for a more clear scope. I'll leave this for a while, to see if any improvements are made to the articles in the meantime. Randomran (talk) 21:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  character design of final fantasy: refining the scope 

message: Reading the article, it seems to me that many parts of it seems rather WP:OR.  Then I come to the final part and see that a list of references that are not inline and that is probably why it looks like it is lacking of sources.  Can anyone with those sources make them inline so the article could look more well sourced? MythSearchertalk 02:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  inline citations 

message: All the examples are from four of the main series games because Tetsuya Nomura was only a character designer for five of the main series games, which is also why the section clearly states that this is a trend in the games for which Nomura was the lead character designer, not throughout the entire series. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 05:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a summary of the character designers for specific games to the introductory paragraph to prevent similar misunderstandings. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:11, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meteorological theme naming 

message: "[...]often possess similar physical characteristics, such as skinny builds and spiky hair and the ability to fight with large swords." (Emphasis mine)
There was only one Final Fantasy lead to have notably spiky hair and fought with a particularly large sword . Final Fantasy VII may be the most mainstream of them, but I would say that Cloud is pretty much unique in those aspects. Harpiesiren (talk) 11:51, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed; and the article cited for that bit doesn't actually support it at all. I'm going to just go ahead and remove it. Majutsukai (talk) 23:20, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trends? I'm not so sure. 

message: he 9th source in the article seems to be very unreliable and inaccurate speculation with no actual logical prove.  The source article started with FF many references to SW while it only listed similar named characters in 2 series, rebel against evil empire and aggressive princess.  Although I can somewhat agree to the first point, the writer is very illogical in the other two points and showed a very poor reasoning power.  A lot of series contain protagonists being rebels against an evil superpower and it is not necessarily a reference to SW.  Especially the FFVII reference is purely wrong to a point where it makes people wonder if she actually played the game seriously or not, saying the company is killing planets so it is evil but the company did not know it was doing so.  The aggresive princess part is also speculative and it is not an uncommon theme.  The source is fallacy since it is essentially saying since Ford have black cars, other car companies must be referencing it when they produce black cars.  The source showed a high level of unreliability since it seems to be only a self published(written by an editor means it could have no fact checking process though it is not always the case) and all the factual error and fallacy within. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  03:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very unreliable source 

message: The article currently contains the following statement: "The Chocobo signature theme is an immediately recognizable upbeat ditty that is present in one form or another in all Final Fantasy games since Final Fantasy II.", what does this mean? Does it include all the spinoffs with Final Fantasy in their titles? What about spinoffs without Final Fantasy in their titles, such as the Kingdom Hearts series, the later Seiken Densetsu / Mana games and Vagrant Story? What about the first three SaGa games, the English language versions of which were rebranded as Final Fantasy games for marketing reasons when they were localized? -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 05:04, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which games have the chocobo theme song? 

message: There is no point in Final Fantasy 7 in which Ultima Weapon is ever referred to as Ultimate Weapon. Aside from being incorrect in it's implications I would like to see a source for this claim. in battle when selected it says Ultima Weapon. the characters refer to all of these creatures as WEAPON.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buddy018 (talk • contribs) 01:12, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultimate Weapon? 

message: On the main Final Fantasy talk page it was agreed that the term effeminate would be better than androgynous in reference to the male characters.Ultimahero (talk) 04:30, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Effeminate" vs. "Androgynous"

message: As far as Wikipedia:WikiProject_Square_Enix articles go, why is this one regarded as low-importance? I think an article highlighting the recurring character and character designs of the series is pretty significant because it shows a sense of continuity in the Final Fantasy games. It brings to light the motifs and themes that repeat in different Final Fantasy games. 
Would perhaps adding a "reception" section to the article raise it to mid-importance level? MikamiLovesDeleting (talk) 06:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Low-importance 

message: The word "Gigantaur", which appears as a search suggestion, redirects to this page even though the word never appears on the page. I will now have to seek information about it elsewhere.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.230.138.32 (talk) 23:33, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Erroneous "Gigataur" Redirect