Talk:Etymology of Oregon

message: Every few months Hmains comes along and tries to put this article under :Category:Oregon culture. And every few months I put it back into the top-level :Category:Oregon. I'm too tired to articulate my reasoning right now, but it just seems to make sense. Does anybody else have an opinion before I go try to convince him to stop doing that? Katr67 (talk) 05:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Every few months I see Hmains do that, and kind of scratch my head. It doesn't seem like a terribly bad category to put it in, but I really don't see any good reason for it. I guess if s/he's insistent, a compromise might be to put it in both categories; categories are supposed to ease navigation, and if s/he sees some reason why it's better in that category, so be it; but keep it in the top level too, because I think there's lots of people who wouldn't think to look there. (Vertical categorization, contrary to popular opinion, is not "against the rules" -- just discouraged in most cases.) -Pete (talk) 05:49, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Culture seems a little to a lot wrong to me too.  It would be one thing if we celebrated the history of the word, or it were embedded in—say—our state handshake.  But it's more a linguistic, academic, and/or historical topic, not culture.  —EncMstr 06:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's occurred to me that a :Category:Words might be useful, given an array of such definition-oriented articles (some admittedly of my own authorship or contribution: skookum, skookumchuck, saltchuck, and others around which there's a culture, and other usages including specific places or derivative concepts/names (skookum (cat) for instance).  :Category:Pacific Northwest words almost seesm like a good idea, no?  Wouldn't need a :Category:Words hierarchy, just as a subcat off :Category:Pacific Northwest.  A bc-side word for the list is rancherie, not sure if it's around in the US; I'm sure it's a longer list if we all gave it some thought, .e. name/word articles like this one.Skookum1 (talk) 22:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's already in :Category:Etymology, which is a sub-cat of :Category:Words. A new category specifically for PNW words would be great, if and when we have a few more articles to put in it; I'd think it's better to focus on writing those articles first, and worry about categorization later. Very interested to see what you come up with. -Pete (talk) 16:20, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well,as you can wsee a number already have articles....Squamish (wind) and williwaw also come to mind, also chinook (wind) in its coastal context.  Tyee should probably have an article, though I don't mean to invoke only CJ words, there are others non-CJ, I'll have to put on my thinking cap....  Saltchuck btw turns up as a corporate name, Saltchuk Resources, as also does Skookum (Skookum Tools).Skookum1 (talk) 16:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Tyee redirects to Tribal chief, which is only one of its meanings; almost seems like it shoudl be an article like Skookum and Skookumchuck - Tyee salmon, Tyee in the sense of boss, tyee in the sense of the larger of two/several things etc.Skookum1 (talk) 16:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Muckamuck shows up as a business name, also - for a pet food company.  List of companies and organizations with Chinook Jargon names seems a bit ponderous of a title, but potentially a fair-sized list, and interesting no doubt....I'll relocate this discusson to Talk:Pacific Northwest or Talk:List of Chinook Jargon placenames or some such as it's far off topic from Oregon (toponym).Skookum1 (talk) 16:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category 

message: :Others derive the name as a corruption of the French word ouragan (hurricane), referring to the tumultuous nature of the winter storms that batter the northwest Oregon County (Oregon, Washington, and Idaho).[citation needed]
Actually I think I can dig up a webref for that, although it's the winds of the Columbia Gorge the story was in reference to; in the CHINOOK list on http://www.linguistlist.org - should be searchable there as "ouragon", and there were various works cited in the discussion.  If anyone's interested in this and wants to dig there, it'll be easy to find, or I'll vget to it eventually.  Myself I lean towards teh hurricane explanation, but that's just a gut feeling.  "French fur traders" can be even more specific, given the limited and very documented staff of the HBC and NWC; Pere la Verendrye at least, I'm not familiar with the French era of Prairie exploration,m though all us Canucks get fed it in elementary school, or did n my day anyway.  Could be someone else, a first provenance; the text should not that they were francophone employees of British fur companies, unless all this is supposed to have taken place in teh days of New France...whch it may have.  Grande fleuve de l'Ouest occurs on some maps, lke the Mer de l'Ouest, which as apocrphyal hsitories lke Bergi and Cibola and Anian all have connectsion to the region, as also the legendary era of the Northwest Passage. Oregon's origins as a name le n that msty period, of places referred to, imagined, that had never been seen, or by only a few; the French origin certainly strikes me as plausible despite the endorsement of the Wisconsin theory; they should be francophone and not French or Quebec or even French Canadian fur traders  - many, though francophone, were not canadien but Metis or otherwise born beyond the Canadas.  "Francophone\s in the employ of the Hudson's Bay Company and/or the Northwest Company (or the Pacific Fur Company" or some such (the PFC despite its American ownership was mostly French staffed.  Anyway I'll dig out the cite(s) from CHINOOK when I have wsome more time....Skookum1 (talk) 22:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While we wait with bated breath for Skookum's reference I have supplied an external reference to the article by Goddard and Love so everybody may now judge the issue by himself. The reference to their theory in this wikipedia article was rather rudimentary and actually misleading in its brevity. I therefore hope my more extensive rendering of their argument does it better justice.--Ereunetes (talk) 23:00, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ouragon

message: Not sure if there is anything new here or not. Aboutmovies (talk) 13:56, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I am afraid the article in The Oregonian adds nothing new and only incited some people to rehash old chestnuts (a letter-to-the-editor with the "French Hurricane" canard warmed up). But I think the 1922-article in the Oregon Historical Quarterly would be a useful reference for the first-use-by-Carver claim. However, links to Google books do not always work for non-US IP-addresses. So I'd advise not to put in an external link to the article, but just to give the following reference:
 "Jonathan Carver's source for the name Oregon," in: Oregon Historical Quarterly, Vol. XXIII (1922), pp. 58-69--Ereunetes (talk) 22:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm wondering if the Okanagan Historical Society might have something, because they have covered a lot of ground outside the Canadian Okanagan in their....forty? fifty? years of publication?  They're not on-line but most BC universities and large public libraries keep the OHS Quarterly on regular shelves (i.e. you might be able to get some through interlibrary loand)...but I don't think there's an index, though maybe UBC or BC Archives indexes them....great stuff, if you ever come across some in a used bookshop; a mix of kitchen-counter poetry, folk history, formal research, and a galaxy of unusual bios and vignettes.  I think there may be something in there, I seem to recall seeing something; just another theory....there might be something in the Kootenay-area sites I've come across too, which are more specifially Columbia River-related, I'll keep my eyes open next time I stumble across them....(found a lot when looking up the Slocan towns and Doukhobors and Rossland and Ft Shepherd and such....)Skookum1 (talk) 00:29, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was going to suggest that you contribute something on the Oregon Historical Quarterly. Unfortunately, someone merged this with Oregon Historical Society already, so right now the OHQ title links to the OHS article. But that could be undone, of course. Or the OHS article could be augmented with more information on the OHQ. Apparently, there is not yet an article on the Okanagam Historical Society. Could you start one? Might be fun.--Ereunetes (talk) 21:23, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fresh source 

message: This is a internet ( http://aragonesasi.com/historia/nombre2.php ) place where he talk from the Aragón name, that maybe not is the origin from the "Oregon (toponym)". If you are having curiosity, then you can to use the google translator. The spanish word Aragon came from pre indoeuropean languages in the iberian or vasque  Ara (mountain, rock, blackthorn) and gon (river, creek). Aragón is the name of a river, a valley and a country, in the high mountain of the Pyrenees:
Las fuentes del río Aragón (o, mejor, "ríos", porque son dos: uno que desciende por Canfranc y, otro, por Echo -una vez más digo que la h de Hecho es tan herejía como ponerle a un Santo Cristo un tricornio de la Guarcia Civil-), llamado Aragón Sub-ordán ("accesorio", "subordinado"); las fuentes, digo, de este río dual nacen del mismo macizo montañoso, con doble curso hacia el E. y hacia el OE., formando casi una curva, que se cierra en San Ciria, en la canal (canal, como río, es femenino en aragonés) de Berdún.
Y, a esa doble "personalidad" del río, responde su nombre, que es plural en el idioma de que procede: el ibérico o vasco-ibero. Y, en su grafía primitiva, es Ara-ue-on, pronunciado Aragüeon (todavía, hoy, en el habla judeo-hispano-marroquí o Hahitia, la palabra fragua -y las análogas a ésta- se escribe fragua y se pronuncia como la primera, prevaleciendo la grafía arcaica española, según nosotros mismos hemos allí comprobado). Pero, deshaciendo el diptongo ue en o (como, de hueso, "osamenta", y, de hueco "oquedad"), resulta Ara-go-on. Así, con dos oes, que no se pronuncian por cacofonía, como tampoco se pronuncian, aunque se escriban, las dos oes de "cooperativa", sino que todos decimos coperativa, simplemente.
Despejando esto (no hay que olvidar que hacemos un trabajo de vulgarización), señalemos que el on es la desinencia de genitivo de plural en vasco-ibero (la n es signo de este número gramatical -como la s lo es en español- y el on, de genitivo); el güe o gua (la a primera es intensiva, como en a-palear, de "palo"; a-cabar, de "cabo", y significa genéricamente eso: agua... "agua corriente", que es río.
En documentos antiguos de Sangüesa -otro compuesto de güe o gua, "río" - se llama, al Aragón, el Góa o Guá Mayor, por ser el río más caudaloso de los tres que allí se juntan: el Irati, el Onsella y el Aragón.
Y como ara vale en ibero "peña" o montaña (Aralar, Ara-naz, Ara-n, etc.), ya tenemos aclarados los tres componentes del Ara-go-n, que significa por tanto: Ríos de la montaña, o, de la montaña ríos, literalmente, antepuesta la palabra "regida" a la "regente", según se hace en latín (Dei gratia), en inglés (Robert-son, el "hijo de Roberto") y en español, aunque sólo en la versificación: "del ave las plumas", y aun en prosa: cornicorto, cuelli-largo, etcétera.
Igual valor y significación tienen: el río Arga, por Argua, y los varios Arvas o Arruas (que malamente suelen escribirse con b) de Biel, de Farasdués, etcétera.
Esa es, pues, la etimología de nuestro Aragón...
:: Thank you for a fascinating link! Here is a direct link to the English translation via Google Translate Reading now… -Pete (talk) 04:37, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rock of the creeks 

message: Doesn't seem to be much love here for the "Oolichan Trail" theory, just a two line mention of Bryam and Lewis' 2001 OHS Quarterly article on it, despite a followup article in winter 2002 according to Google, and this scholarly paper endorsing the idea: https://aashley.weebly.com/uploads/4/3/8/2/4382474/oolichan_paper_mirjam.pdf
I particularly like the note that the Oolichan trail was spoken of in points east by journeying Cree speakers, who, like east asians, don't distinguish L from R, and so spread the near legendary stories of the "Oorichan Trail", to the land where the oilfish were bountiful. And as it turns out this western terminus was actually Bella Coola Inlet, perhaps this is a reason why for Oregonians the idea has been quietly buried. 2001:56A:F0E9:9B00:689F:66BE:CDA8:3B6B (talk) 08:18, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Oolichan Trail

message: The origin is O’Regan. The clan Hy Riagain’s territory and subsequently, Parrish, was named “Oregon”. Exactly that spelling. Irish were amongst the first settlers in Oregon.
the Parrish of Oregon in Ireland is now called Rosenallis. 66.8.220.147 (talk) 00:32, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish origin of Oregon