Talk:The Mask of Zorro

message: Was Montero in any of the Zorro stories or TV shows?
~NewGod_KingKirby — Preceding unsigned comment added by NewGod KingKirby (talk • contribs) 02:08, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. The "base" story -- The Mark of Zorro, which has been filmed three times -- has Zorro facing off against a corrupt governor, but in one film he's named Alvaradro, and in two Quintero. The actual last Spanish Governor of California was Pablo Vicente de Solá, who has no article as yet. The earlier films do not seem so closely tied to the Californio/Mexican independence movement, though. --Dhartung | Talk 04:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Montero

message: Box Office Mojo lists the movies budget at 95 million, but this page lists it at 65 million.  Which one is correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.59.142 (talk) 10:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Budget

message: Will there be a DVD? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.209.15.100 (talk) 15:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  DVD? 

message: Having spent a day away from the article, I'm disappointed by the rush to judgement to remove this section from the article I've added over the past few days.  I thought Wikipedia wasn't censored, since I got the info from the Internet Movie Database and E! TV's "Sexiest" series.  What's the deal? 70.129.43.110 (talk) 00:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The main problem with your edits is that you didn't provide a secondary source for the dubious information you contributed.  If you could have added, perhaps, an external link, I could have cited it, and the section might work.  I've had to deal with this kind of stuff before, so, believe me, making such a section encyclopedic can be achieved.Another issue with this section was that it dripped of personal opinion and original research.  While your ogling of Catherine Zeta-Jones is understandable, this is an encyclopedia, not a fansite.  The strange thing is, I do remember reading, at the Internet Movie Database and Filmsite.org, about this film being one of the more notable "romantic" scenes of film history, so your edits may not be entirely misinformed.  I think I'll surf the Web and see if I can find those pages.  — Cinemaniac (talk  •  contribs) 01:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was the one who removed the text, and prepared a really long response that Cinemaniac seemed to echo well. Because of the edit conflict, I'll just summarize. Problems with NPOV and weasel words in the wording, lack of sources, lack of notability, some trivia present (why is Zorro not wearing gloves so important to the article?). My best guess is some of this could be integrated into a "Production" section, re-written with references. Don't think it belongs in Historical and cultural references. CM (talk) 01:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Movie articles aren't my specialty, and to see something with so many problems and no ref to check against, I felt removing was the best course. I'm trying not to be edit conflicted again (hence two replies), but I'll leave it at it didn't look encyclopedic at the time, especially since some of it was part of a trivia section deleted some time ago.--CM (talk) 01:43, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: i don't have the exact URL, but if you go to the IMDb "Goofs" page, you'll see a lot of this info there.  Maybe copying and pasting that here was not the best move.  Oh well... I'll re-add til I can think of something better. 70.129.43.110 (talk) 01:54, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: After doing a Google search, I found this page that supports one of the statements in the new section as being one "erotic scene from the '90s". And thanks, 70.129.43.110, for providing the URL for the IMDb "goofs" page; I can now use that to provide an in-text citation. — Cinemaniac (talk  •  contribs) 02:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ironically, user contributed websites like IMDB are usually not reliable if I remember correctly. Something with a bit more verifiable would be better.--CM (talk) 02:07, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've decided to rename the section to something more encyclopedic, as I'm sure "Famous scene involving undressing Catherine Zeta-Jones" could more appropriately be trimmed to just "Famous scenes".BTW, I'm sorry my response caused an edit conflict with your intended reply; I tend to respond quickly to something that piques my interest from the "Recent changes" list, but I'm glad that I, at least, reflected most of what you would have said. — Cinemaniac (talk  •  contribs) 02:20, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: One sentence should be enough to address this scene and its appearance on the erotic moments list. The information about continuity errors is, IMO, not notable. Best, Mdiamante (talk) 02:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Only one sentence?! Com'on! I think it could be a little longer, don't you?  I mean, I'm sure a lot of readers would like to know how this scene exactly unfolds, including its mechanics and the actors' emotions during the scene. After all, no man can look at Catherine Zeta-Jones dressed in nothing but some frilly pantaloons, with the locks of her hair positioned just right to mask the peaks of her sumptuous breasts, and not be enticed. 70.129.43.110 (talk) 02:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

text: This should suffice: "Note that Zeta-Jones appears topless, but with her long hair fully covering her breasts. She turns to get a hat to cover herself - as she turns back, quite a bit of the front of her right breast is visible, although her nipple appears to be hidden by hair (difficult to tell because it all happens so quickly)." I hope that what I've added works. 70.129.43.110 (talk) 02:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Your recent edit concerning this matter looks like male gaze and nothing more.  Sorry, Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought, nor is it a collection of miscellaneous facts.  No matter how beautiful Catherine Zeta-Jones is and the notability of the scene, I don't think we need a whole section devoted to trivial facts concerning it.  One sentence describing this scene and its making the erotic scenes list would probably work best.BTW, I haven't been able to find any reputable source verifying the "fact" that Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones were sexually aroused during the filming of this sequence. Since you said you saw such info on "E!" TV, perhaps I should look under Google Video.  Still, I don't think such information concerning actors's emotions is necessary. If anything, that would probably belong on those actor's Wikipedia pages, but not here. — Cinemaniac (talk  •  contribs) 03:02, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The section has since been trimmed down to a few sentences, with the continuity errors converted into footnotes and most of the -tagged statements cited. I think it looks a lot better. Cinemaniac (talk  •  contribs) 04:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well after a month since this section's inception, the sentence concerning the two actors—especially Banderas—allegedly getting "sexually aroused" is still unverified, and I have a mind to just zap it from the article, but I'll give it about another month or two. If it's not sourced after that, I'll try to hunt it down, but if I still can't find a source to cite, it'll have to go. Sorry, 70.129.43.110. Cinemaniac (talk  •  contribs  •  critique) 01:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind. I've cited the appropriate source for those previously dubious statements, as you can tell by this diff. Congrats, 70.129.43.110! The section you helped create has now been fully cited! Cinemaniac (talk  •  contribs  •  critique) 21:49, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous scene involving undressing of [[Catherine Zeta-Jones]] 

message: I changed the information on Captain Love from a U.S. Army to a Texian Army captain.  Reason being; in the scene where he shows Alejandro his brother's head in his quarters, you can see the Lone Star flag on his wall behind Alejandro.  As this article points out, Texas wasn't a part of the United States yet, so he would not have been in the service of the U.S. Army.  Of course it's never explicitly stated that Love was Texas Army, but neither is it stated that he was in the U.S. Army, and the evidence points more towards Texas. 213.181.226.21 (talk) 18:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain Love 

message: I feel that a reference mentioning the influence of the Count of Monte Cristo should bear mention in this article as there truly are many similarities to the story.
Monte Cristo’s and Zorro’s similarities
The Film the Mask of Zorro (1998) takes from the storyline of the Count of Monte Cristo as you have in that film the first Zorro Diego Vega (Anthony Hopkins) life ruined by his enemy and then serves 20 years in prison only to sneak out by a fake death scene and be buried in a bag only to dig himself out later (which is what Edmond Dantes attempts in his own jail break in the novel only he is thrown over cliff into the water when he had planned to be buried alive by the jailers). Also in that film you see the refining of Alejandro Murrieta into a gentlemen by Diego Vega which is similar to Abbe Faria’s training of Dantes.
Also unlike most Zorro films the issue of Revenge is so strongly prevalent throughout as it is in the Count of Monte Cristo.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.68.27.26 (talk) 09:23, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influences on the film 

message: First, Cinemaniac, when you undid my 10.7 revision, you zapped a legitimate, cite-filled section. Please avoid doing so again.
Second, let's look at the latest "Undressing of Eléna scene" section:
::Undressing of Eléna scene::
::The one moment that captured all the advertising and viewer's attention: When Eléna (Catherine Zeta-Jones) is undressed by the slashing sword of Mexican thief Alejandro Murrieta/Zorro (Antonio Banderas).In order to accomplish the effect of Catherine Zeta-Jones's dress falling off from being sliced up by Antonio Banderas, a thin wire was attached to the dress to yank it off when the director called "action". In the film, it is quite obvious that the dress is being torn off by a wire rather than simply falling off by itself. Additionally, the back of Zeta-Jones's dress opens, which causes the upper half to fall, exposing her upper body, and then her skirt crumbling. Note that the actress tried to cover for this movement by moving her arms slightly to suggest the fragility of the mutilated dress. Furthermore, after being undressed by Banderas, Zeta-Jones is seen wearing a kind of long underwear, colored a light blue, that covers her below her hips. In the next long shot where she is covering her breasts with Banderas's hat, her "underwear" changes in style, coloring and fabric. Source:  The scene has been called one of the most erotic film moments of the 1990s.  In fact, both Catherine Zeta-Jones and Antonio Banderas have admitted to sexual arousal during the filming of this scene,"Sexiest..." (2006) - "E!". IMDB. Banderas being aroused by Zeta-Jones's beauty, and Zeta-Jones being aroused by the very fact that Banderas could strip her by using only his sword and not his hands.
Okay... first: this subsection was put under Plot, but since it largely concerns public reaction, should be under Reception. Second: the first sentence is not a sentence; it has no verb. Third: an IMDB "goofs" section is cited, but this is not a notable source. Fourth: this three-sentence paragraph can fit all the same info into two sentences, which I've done. I've also moved it to "Reception" where it belongs, and unless the content can be justifiably expanded beyond two sentences, it doesn't merit its own subsection.
Here is the version I've put under Reception:
::One of the movie's most popular scenes was the one in which Alejandro renders Eléna topless with a flurry of sword slashes. Filmsite.org's Tim Dirks has called it one of the most erotic film moments of the 1990s, and And in a 2006 E! television special, both Banderas and Zeta-Jones professed experiencing arousal during its filming; he by her beauty, and her by his character's innovative way of stripping her character."Sexiest..." (2006) - "E!". IMDB. 
Please discuss here before reverting. Thanks, Mdiamante (talk) 06:14, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There were other problems, such as a cite that didn't support a claim (now fixed), over-reliance on one minor critic, and phrasing that exaggerated what a cited source actually indicates.--Tenebrae (talk) 02:39, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Wildroot on citing IMDB and I really don't think the current pic qualifies as fair-use given the weight of the prose which it represents as it stands now. DrNegative (talk) 05:30, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undressing of Eléna scene - late 2010 

message: How did Montero find out Diego was Zorro? Did he checked every single citizien in California to find someone with an injured arm? --2.229.1.151 (talk) 10:12, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I always assumed he'd recognized Diego when he came up on the balcony and gave him the three cuts on the throat (possibly he'd just never been that close to Zorro, or heard him speak before) and that checking him for blood later at the hacienda was just to make sure.  There does seem to be a flash of recognition in the balcony scene, right after Diego warns him "never to return."216.15.24.95 (talk) 15:23, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Secret identity 

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message: IMDb has an entry for a Mexican film named La máscara de Zorro which was supposedly released in 2000, starring Bruno Bichir as Alejandro Murrieta/Zorro. The film is even listed in Bichir's Wikipedia article, but I can't find any proof of its existance so I wonder if it may be a hoax.--Newblackwhite (talk) 22:31, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mexican remake from 2000 mentioned by IMDb: a real movie or a hoax?