Talk:Catalan Countries

message: The map describes Roussillon aka Pyrénées-Orientales as being Catalan Speaking, but doesn't provide a source. I used to live in Barcelona, and have visited Pyrénées-Orientales, I find that extremely hard to believe. The best source I could find was this from the Generalitat of Catalonia, which means its reliability is questionable. It's all in Catalan but it says they sent out a couple thousand questionnaires to Roussillon, their results are that 34% can speak Catalan, which seems high but the number who say that they usually use Catalan is only 1.2% of respondents, and 4.4% say they generally use French and Catalan, by comparison 87% of the respondents say they usually speak French. If Catalan Speaking means that there are people who happen to speak Catalan located in the area, then I guess it makes sense but otherwise to me it seems like it's a French speaking region, and the maps legend should be modified. Alcibiades979 (talk) 22:04, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Catalan is the traditional local language of Roussillon, which means that about one century ago the number of speakers was 100% of the population or very close to it. The decrease in the number of speakers is due to language shift and immigration, as it also happens with so many European regional languages. --Jotamar (talk) 23:47, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't disagree with that analysis, however where I currently live for instance the traditional language would be Tupi but today it would be described as Lusophone. I guess then the question is how long ago would the language have to have been spoken in order for the reclassification to take place? I think there'd be little disagreement in saying that today the language of Perpignan is French and not Catalan same as with the rest of Pyrénées-Orientales. Also looking at the age demographic data from Gen Cat's study I'm thinking you would have to go back further than a hundred years to get close to 100% Catalan speakers. "Catalan speaking" could be changed to "Historically Catalan speaking" to better reflect the present day situation. Alcibiades979 (talk) 10:17, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "Historically Catalan speaking" could be interpreted as meaning that there are no Catalan speakers left, however that's not true. Native people of Roussillon call themselves Catalans and I guess that they consider the Catalan language a part of their identity, even if they might not speak it often. --Jotamar (talk) 11:11, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Shouldn't that be reflected by a source though if such is the case? The article as a whole seems to lack sources and seems to have two arguments: one that there is a catalan cultural domain, and then two Catalan independence. I mean the article as a whole has six images, two are maps, and four are for Catalan independence, this is kind of weird. Be that as it may, Pyrénées-Orientales does not speak Catalan, there is a minority who do but the vast majority speak French, and this is backed by Reliable Sources, so it is incorrect to say it speaks French. We could say instead that the Dark Grey represents the "Catalan Cultural Domain" this would probably more representative and more for other domains in the Dark Grey area where Catalan is not the main language, such as Barcelona. Alcibiades979 (talk) 21:35, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The concept of Catalan Countries is indeed linked to Catalan nationalism, no doubt about it. What exactly would you change in the article? --Jotamar (talk) 23:46, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Map and Roussillon being Described as Catalan Speaking