Talk:Walloon language

message: Translated following this request:
*Article: :fr:Wallon
*Corresponding English-language article: Walloon language
*Worth doing because: Material to incorporate into English-language article
* Originally Requested by: Bogdangiusca 19:29, 7 Feb 2004
*Status: Completed Nathan 11:44, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

message: I think this paragraph may be wrong:
A borrowing from Germanic languages: the construction Cwè çki c' est di ça po ene fleur (what is this flower?) can be compared word to word to German Was ist das für eine Blume? or Dutch Wat is dat voor een bloem?. 
For starters, both the Dutch and the German quotes mean something like "What sort of flower is that". And the french (at least Belgian French) has a similar construction: Qu'est-ce que c'est (que ça) comme (un) fleur? So I wouldn't rush to a conclusion that this is a Germanic borrowing. 88.111.151.181 17:18, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am Dutch and my German is also quite OK, but I don't know much about Romance languages. The Dutch and German quotes both literally translate in English as: "What is that for a flower?" What I can make out of the Walloon quote, the last three words also mean "for a flower". I don't know what "cwè çki c'" and "di ça" mean, but if "cwè çki c'" means "what" and "di ça" means "that", then the Walloon and Dutch and German quotes have the same construction. Dinsdagskind 09:37, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cwè çki c' est di ça po ene fleur looks really crazy but if you sound it out it is practically the same thing as Qu'est-ce que c'est [dit ça] pour une fleur. It is close enough. So, my question is does the French phrase work in France or is it Belgian French? If the latter then it could very well be a a literal translation borrowed from the neighboring Germanic dialects.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djkernen (talk • contribs) 19:05, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Hmmmm...

message: It has been proposed that Languages of Oïl be renamed and moved to Langues d'Oïl. Comments and votes on Talk:Languages of Oïl, please, if you're interested. Man vyi 09:09, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed move 

message: I am removing the tag, since it was probably added by mistake. Feel free to put it back if I am wrong :) -- lucasbfr talk 13:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As Belgian, I have found weird to find the French tag here, although one could argue that Walloon is indeed a local language spoken in France, mainly in the area known as the "Botte de Givet".  But I wonder whether this in enough to include Walloon into the Wikiproject France.  Moroever, Walloon is not a French dialect, but a distinct language, which make it difficult to include it into the project France --Lebob-BE 15:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject France 

message: I've been reading through the "example phrases", and I've been wondering how all of that is pronounced. Could anyone record and upload a sound sample for the pronounciation? Thanks in advance! Zouavman Le Zouave 11:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Samples? 

message: Removed this:
:[Walloon is also spoken in] two or three villages in Luxembourg (Doncols, Sonlez), though it is possibly no longer spoken there.
as either it is or it isn't spoken there, and do we mean two villages or do we mean three? If we can't be sure about either of these statements, they should be omitted until they can be substantiated one way or the other. -- Picapica (talk) 11:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snip 

message: Several linguists divide the Oil language in groups and among them the septentrional one, containing Walloon, Picard and Norman (except the southern one). If you compare these 3 dialects (vocabulary, phonetics...) to each other, you notice they have more common points together than they have one by one with the central Oil group ( including Parisian French, so: French)....
The language spoken in Les Andelys (100 km west from Paris) is (was) closer to the Picard and the Walloon dialect than the Parisian one. The phonetical and vocabularial differences create(d) a real linguistic boarder that is (was) more significant than the boarders between Norman and Picard or Picard and Walloon. 
Nortmannus (talk) 16:16, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I always thought the ligne Joret – more specifically the palatalisation line – formed the boundary between Northern and Central Oil, and that Walloon is therefore Central Oil, although it is north of the /w/ ~ /g/ isogloss. Is that the conventional boundary then? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:20, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hallo Florian, the Ligne Joret only concerns the northwestern part of France for the non palatalization of the groups /ca/ /ga/ /ok/, etc. North from Granville to les Andelys in Normandy, then through Picardy (north west of Paris) to Belgium in Wallo-Picard : extrem northwestern part of Wallonie. The line w/g is another one, not included in the ligne Joret, but parallel to it only in Normandy, this line is also from Granville to Vernon (Normandy) but further it is distinct : it includes entire Picardy, Wallonie, Champagne, Lorraine, half of Burgundy. The difference is the way to pronounce the w, everywhere it was pronounced [w] but in Normandy they started to pronounce [v] along the 12th century, despite they continued to write the W in the place-names and surnames, to the end of the 13th century : for example Vicquemare (Wiguemare around 1210), Villequier (Wylliquer in 1272), then they were systematically written with a V, but not in Picardy, in Champagne or Wallonie for example they continued to be pronounced [w] for a longer time and to write W-. Concerning the palatalization of the ligne Joret, there are inside it contrasts in Cotentin and on the Channel Islands. In Cotentin (north to Granville) they say cat, for chat, quièvre (or quèvre) for chèvre, but sometimes poutchette [tʃ] for pouquette in Upper Normandy or in North Picardy that means "pocket" corresponding to French pochette (other meaning). On the Channel Islands [tʃ] and [dʒ] are systematically used despite the fact they are all located above Granville (some 10 to 20 km off-shore). In Normandy, the place-names in W- written with a W- are now rare, except at the boarder with Picardy : for example Wanchy-Capval (pronounced Vanchy). Another line, parallell to Ligne Joret in Normandy,  includes Picardy and Wallonie entirely, it is the chuintement : plache, commencher for place, commencer in Central French. Cordialement.Nortmannus (talk) 16:20, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for the info! So is the chuintement line a better way to delimit Northern Oil from Central Oil? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:40, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Maybe, but I am not sure that the Wallo-champenois and Wallo-Lorrain share this consonantic trait "chuintement" Walloon is a bit of a political expression, not linguistical.Nortmannus (talk) 18:54, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Personally, I wouldn't subsume all Oil regional languages in Belgium under Walloon, so Belgian Champenois and Belgian Lorrain don't count as Walloon to me, nor Picard. Although there's a map in Languages of Belgium#Non-official languages which shows Wallo-Picard besides Picard and Wallo-Lorrain besides Lorrain (though no Wallo-Champenois, only Champenois), so I don't know. Are these some kind of transitional dialects? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 19:22, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wallon, Picard and Norman 

message: AFAICT, Walloon is not official in Belgium.  Someone should verify this and update the article appropriately.
Also of note:  The earliest "French" treatise on the longsword (La noble science des joueurs d'espee) is actually written in Old/Middle Walloon.  It contains some distinctive northern langue d'oïl characteristics, such as the word "commenche".  The Jade Knight (talk) 22:10, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official language 

message: Is spoken ... until the mid 20th century is not just incorrect grammar; it's also unclear whether the language is dead everywhere or just in some regions. --Espoo (talk) 21:15, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  confusing beginning 

message: Why language family always descent to the roght consecutive only one branch? 2404:8000:1027:85F6:799A:7835:1C33:4B35 (talk) 04:03, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem.