Talk:Zweihänder

message: I just edited this article. I changed the sentence that said that the Landsknechts were swiss mercenaries employed by Maximilian I. That's wrong, at least according to the research I've done. The Landsknechts were formed by the Holy Roman Emperor to try to emulate the success of the Swiss pikemen. Apol0gies 18:12, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: German for "both" is beide, not bide, I've read other sources with the former spelling, and haven't heard of German evolving in a direction that would turn a 1400s bide into modern beide. So would you mind giving me a little more to chew on than mere trust? --Svartalf 15:43, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was surprised too, but just compare these results with these. --Angr (tɔk) 16:16, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course one of the vowel-related Lautverschiebungen (I tend to forget which one) turns long "i" into "ei". The more common German term today would be Beidhänder, though. —Nightstallion (?) 18:44, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but not in beide, which comes from OHG beide (< PWGmc. *baiþ-, cf. OE bāþe), not *bīde. That's why it surprised me. --Angr (tɔk) 20:06, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Mh. Are you sure that bīde in this case is not simply a variant of beide? On second thought: Is it possible that Bidenhänder comes from the Latin prefix bi-, and that -den- was added to form a connection to the German beide, which was and still is pronounced as bīde in some parts of Germany? Just a thought—don't know how likely it is, and your linguistics expertise greatly outclasses mine, anyway. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 22:06, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Angr is quite right, it is surprising, etymologically. It's a case of chaque mot a son histoire I suppose. dab (ᛏ) 23:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The German name

message: I think there should be an article on the zweihander in popular culture.-Uber Cuber —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.180.69 (talk) 01:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: and now Elden Ring 2604:3D09:1580:9600:64ED:E297:C0F:6188 (talk) 03:14, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular Culture 

message: The article was poorly written and layed out, with many assertions repeated and placed oddly, as well as being inconsistent.  I have cleaned up these problems.  Also I have corrected misstatements about their handling.  The Goliath fecthbuch depicts them being used much like longswords, and modern students of swordsmanship have shown the weapons to not be overly heavy, clumsy things.
Also, the pommel is the upper guard and the quillons the lower guard.
Mercutio.Wilder 19:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feb '07 Rewrite 

message: Piers Gerlofs Donia has been added to the Zweihander article by User:Haggawaga - Oegawagga.  I feel that the inclusion of this section is inappropriate for two reasons:
1.  It is unreferenced and contradicts the scholarship on the subject thereby placing the burden of proof on the presenter of this information. 
2.  An article on a class of objects covering a large span of time and space should not have a section dedicated to a single user of that item.  I feel that this is a clear corollary to the no trivia rule.
Below is the material in question, in its current form:
The legendary Frisian freedom fighter Pier Gerlofs Donia, allegedly wielded an enormous Zweihänder. The weapon measures 2,15 meters in length, and weighs around 6.6 kg. The sword is kept on display, in the Frisian museum.
and the original section:
The legendary Frisian freedom fighter Pier Gerlofs Donia, used to handle an enormous Zweihänder. The blade measured 2,15 meters in tall, and weighed around 7\8 kg. Grote Pier (Donia's nickname), could use this blade one-handed, and beheaded several enemies at the same time in just one hit, during battle! Today, the sword has still been kept, in the Frisian museum.
The section in question will be removed until the matter is resolved by discussion.  Please discuss below-
Mercutio.Wilder 17:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Mercurio, the second version seems to be best! -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 06:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not know which version you are referring to.  The second chronologically or the second as it appears on this page.  So, do you prefer the longer or shorter version?  Either way you have not addressed the concerns I list:  that the section in question is unreferenced and contradicts the current scholarship and that a section like this is akin to a trivia secion.  Please explain how to address these concerns.
Pier Gerlofs Donia is now included, perfectly referenced so all is right now. -The Bold Guy- (talk) 08:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

text: lol 2A02:8108:96C0:3948:8D0:F67F:3939:BCB0 (talk) 20:48, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pier Gerlofs Donia 

message: Great-swords are, as their title betrays, well, great. Greatness in the simplest sense; that is, size. 
I'm sure we're all well aware of this. So, why am I bringing it up?
I think it would be beneficial for the reader to be able to intuit just *how* great. Measurements are fine and all, but, in order to service this function a bit more appreciably, I suggest that we introduce a few pictures.
For the average European man--of the middle ages, at least--even the tiniest of great-swords were level with a man's chin. That's quite sizable, I'm sure you'll concur.
I'd like to be able to afford the reader some inkling of this. Again, measurements suffice, as they are empirical, but they don't exactly convey the message quite as intuitively, I feel. 
The aforementioned picture introduction, however, may perform the task more admirably. Pictures that compare the size of the sword to the size of the average man, preferably. I'll be snooping around for some of these for a bit. If you find any, please inform me. 
Oh, and, if you have any objections, please voice them. Thank you for allowing me your audience. Ghost Lourde (talk) 01:54, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Graphic intuitiveness 

message: Are there any more primary documents or examples of the history of the Zweihander? The article doesn't touch on where the sword comes from, what the first swords looked like, and how they came into existence. I'd love to see an early one and learn about where it comes from.  Ifilby (talk) 04:41, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of Zweihander 

message: the last reference of this article delivers a 404, it appears not to exist. I did not delete it because i lack the knowledge to replace it with a valid source. Hanken stein08 (talk) 19:17, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  last reference 

message: The following is vaguely worded and needs references:
"The Black Band of German mercenaries (active during the 1510s and 1520s) included 2,000 two-handed swordsmen in a total strength of 17,000 men. Zweihänder-wielders fought with and against pike formations. Soldiers trained in the use of the sword were granted the title of Meister des langen Schwertes (lit. Master of the Long Sword) by the Mark Brotherhood." SewerVermin (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference Needed