Talk:Midge Potts/Archive 1

message: I have a better photo of Midge that I can provide from a protest rally last January.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:39, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 09:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better photo of Midge 

message: This is what is ridiculous about transgenderism.  "Projecting" oneself as a woman does not make you a woman anymore than "projecting" oneself as a Martian makes one a Martian. Just a comment. Jinxmchue 04:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Projecting" as a woman 

message: I think the pronouns should probably be altered a bit; for now I'm going to change most of them to feminine (leaving alone ones referring to her male life), because it seems to me that the use of all-masculine pronouns could be interpreted as being some sort of veiled form of criticism of gender identity disorder, and this is not the article for that sort of thing (Potts clearly identifies as female, so it would be most accurate to use feminine pronouns).
Also, the above comment is a little unnecessary (and logically flawed: it is impossible to define "male/man" and "female/woman" without using some sort of reference to presentation or perception). If you have an opinion on trans people, please take it to a debate or political forum.TheTomato 05:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me.  As "Mitch", yes, use masculine terms.  As "Midge", use feminine.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The above comment - mine - is not flawed, logically or otherwise. Despite his make-up, hair style, and clothing, "Midge" is still physically male (last I heard, anyway). Even with a "sex change," he would still be biologically male, with XY chromosomes. What he's doing is no different than if I painted my skin green, stuck a those springy antenna things on my head, renamed myself "Zornblat" and told people that I was a Martian. I would be laughed at if I did that and people would be right to do so. Changing my appearance is no justification for calling me anything other than what I am. And this man's current appearance is no reason to use any pronouns other than the ones people used when he was born. Jinxmchue 13:19, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I took a look at articles about other transgendered people via List of transgender people, and all the ones I looked at refer to the people by their target gender.  In other words, if a male began living as a female, the article uses "she".  Closest article to Midge's is Calpernia Addams, where they served in the US Navy.  But note the use of "she" throughout.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 13:43, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's just as ridiculous in any other article, especially when someone has not even gotten a sex change operation. Someone like "Midge" who acts and dresses like a women but is still a man (afaik) is nothing more than a cross-dresser. Jinxmchue 16:37, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronouns

message: I added some information that shows that Potts has not undergone either conventional hormone therapy or surgery. This makes him nothing more than a cross-dressing man, which means he still falls under the broad header of "transgender," but does not justify calling him "she" or "her." Jinxmchue 01:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Status of Potts' gender alteration and pronouns 

message: Midge's identity is female. That is what is important here. She considers herself female, and almost all of her friends and associates consider her female. I am switching it back to the female pronoun. Also, she has undergone some hormone treatments for several years now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PeteinDC (talk • contribs) 
:Thank you.  Also, I'm thinking I know the answer to this question already, but I'm asking it anyway to get it on the record: Do you agree that in the times of life described in the article where Midge was "Mitch" that those should be referred to in the masculine, and the rest feminine?  SchuminWeb (Talk) 20:55, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hogwash. By that standard, anyone could be anything just because they say so. I could say I was a Ferclavian zornblatt beast from the 10th dimension if I wanted to, but that doesn't make me one.  I could also take unproven herbal supplements (like the "hormone treatments" Potts is taking) that claim are changing my brainwaves to that more like a zornblatt beast even though such claims are unproven by the scientific community. Guess what? I'd still be a human being from the planet Earth. Jinxmchue 01:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Man, you're really breaking a certain she-woman/he-panther's heart here, dude. - Crockspot 17:46, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Get your butt back to DU, freak! ;)  Jinxmchue 18:19, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender Identity 

message: * I'm of the view that Potts should be referred to in the feminine.  Potts had her name legally changed from Mitch to Midge, and identifies as a female.  I believe that the masculine form should only be used when referring to events that happened before she began identifying as a female, such as Potts' military service.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 01:00, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Got a source for that, because I sure couldn't find one. The only source I found about the issue said he was taking unproven herbal supplements. Jinxmchue 13:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statements by editors involved in the process