Talk:Margaret Thatcher/Archive 2

message: Maybe do a Later career of Margaret Thatcher and/or Legacy of Margaret Thatcher.--Levineps (talk) 16:03, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  At 46 kB (7571 words) readable prose size the article is well within WP:SIZE guidelines and is an appropriate length for a major world political figure like this.  There is already a separate article Premiership of Margaret Thatcher, which is obviously necessary, but I think Happyme22 has done a good job on organizing the post-PM sections of the article.  Biographical subarticles have very low readership and I don't think the effort to additional ones here is warranted.  Wasted Time R (talk) 16:31, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agree with Wasted Time, no need to split  --Snowded (talk) 17:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fully agree with WTR and Snowded. Just about everyone reads the main article and the value of much of this material may be lost by splitting it out. Happyme22 (talk) 18:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split article(s) 

message: Thatcher earned the title Iron Lady as an ironic twist as she opposed the Soviet or 'Iron' curtain and the Soviet press gave her the above nickname
SJHQC (talk) 23:04, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and the article says that. Happyme22 (talk) 23:31, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

text: The Iron Lady nickname was coined in an article published in the Red Star (24 January 1976). Here's a source: Margaret Thatcher, The Path to Power (London: HarperCollins, 1995) p. 362: 'A stream of crude invective flowed from the different Soviet propaganda organs. But it was some apparatchik in the office of Red Star, the Red Army newspaper, his imagination surpassing his judgement, who coined the description of me as "The Iron Lady".' Here's another: Margaret Thatcher, Speech at Kensington Town Hall ("Britain Awake") (The Iron Lady), 19 January 1976. Margaret Thatcher Foundation. Lachrie (talk) 18:14, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's (also) a reference to the Duke of Wellington, of course. Like Wellington at Waterloo, she was in the habit of wearing ferrous underpants. --OhNoPeedyPeebles (talk) 23:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iron Lady 

message: 90.28.20.103 (talk) 13:18, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The middle of the three paragraphs under the heading 'European Community' needs moving to a completely separate section headed either 'Council of Europe' or 'European Court of Human Rights' or 'European Convention on Human Rights'.  The Council of Europe (with the Convention as its primary legal instrument and the Court which rules on alleged breaches) has nothing whatsoever to do with the European Community/European Union and leaving the paragraph which discusses the ECHR under the 'European Community' heading and between two paragraphs which are about the Community/Union continues to misinform the vast majority who think that they are one and the same.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.28.20.103 (talk) 18:36, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

text: If there is any misinformation, as 90.28.20.103 asserts, in conflating 'European Community' with 'Council of Europe', why not simply revise the heading 'European Community' to 'Europe'? Heading revised.---PJHaseldine (talk) 19:23, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  European Community 

message: She is "Baroness Thatcher", not "Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven". The "of Kesteven" part is a territorial qualification and not part of her title (she was created "Baroness Thatcher, of Kesteven in the County of Lincoln"). Proteus 19:58 GMT 6th January 2004
: I changed the article to reflect this (moved the "of Kesteven" out of the title and to above the quick-look table) some time ago; is this a suitable and/or sufficient change, in your opinion?
: James F. (talk) 09:26, 12 Jan 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The "of Kesteven" part shouldn't really be mentioned at all. It's an obscure relic of the previously feudal nature of British peerages that all Barons and Viscounts are created, for instance, "Baron A, of X in the County of Y" or "Baron A of B, of X in the County of Y". The bit after the comma only really belongs in a book on peerages, and should never be used to describe the peer. People who really are "Baron A of B", like Lord Falconer of Thoroton, have the "of B" bit before the comma (he is actually "Baron Falconer of Thoroton, of Thoroton in the County of Nottingham"). Proteus 14:56 GMT, 13th January 2004
===Local government===
This article needs some more regarding the relationship between Thatcher policies and local government (which were amongst her most major and often controversial policies).
I had a go at writing something myself, but don't think I can produce something good (and sufficiently NPOV) in the time available, so am asking if someone else could please give it a go.   (Go on, you know you want to :-)
Here are a few bullet points to get started:
* general trend towards centralisation of power (e.g. the referred-to changes to ownership of council housing was a centrally imposed decision on local authorities)
* 1986, rate capping (i.e. limiting councils' ability to impose their own rates), leading to direct action by members of hard-left "Militant" group on Liverpool City Council
* war of attrition between Labour councils (sometimes branded "loonly left") and Thatcher government; above is one example; also e.g. when unemployment reached 3 million, a large banner about it was displayed from the Greater London Council (GLC)'s County Hall, which faced the Houses of Parliament across the river; also e.g. Lambeth "nuclear-free zone", 
* 1986, abolition of GLC, headed at the time by Ken Livingstone (who of course later became Mayor of London), and various other metropolitan councils
* maybe discussion of 1988 local government act (but avoid a lengthy rehash of Section 28 page please)
* relate poll tax (community charge) to local government taxation -- not clear from existing article that it was funding mechanism for local councils; NB need to clarify that "flat rate" was only within each local authority, and differed between authorities.
Many thanks!
--Trainspotter 15:07, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: This article needs some more regarding the relationship between Thatcher policies and local government (which were amongst her most major and often controversial policies).
I had a go at writing something myself, but don't think I can produce something good (and sufficiently NPOV) in the time available, so am asking if someone else could please give it a go.   (Go on, you know you want to :-)
Here are a few bullet points to get started:
* general trend towards centralisation of power (e.g. the referred-to changes to ownership of council housing was a centrally imposed decision on local authorities)
* 1986, rate capping (i.e. limiting councils' ability to impose their own rates), leading to direct action by members of hard-left "Militant" group on Liverpool City Council
* war of attrition between Labour councils (sometimes branded "loonly left") and Thatcher government; above is one example; also e.g. when unemployment reached 3 million, a large banner about it was displayed from the Greater London Council (GLC)'s County Hall, which faced the Houses of Parliament across the river; also e.g. Lambeth "nuclear-free zone", 
* 1986, abolition of GLC, headed at the time by Ken Livingstone (who of course later became Mayor of London), and various other metropolitan councils
* maybe discussion of 1988 local government act (but avoid a lengthy rehash of Section 28 page please)
* relate poll tax (community charge) to local government taxation -- not clear from existing article that it was funding mechanism for local councils; NB need to clarify that "flat rate" was only within each local authority, and differed between authorities.
Many thanks!
--Trainspotter 15:07, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Local government

message: On the Ministries - is it wise to label them "First Government", "Second Government" and "Third Covernment" when other reshuffles took place as well? Also "Government" implies a new term of office - something that doesn't exist in the British constitution and could cause confusion if applied to earlier periods. Can I suggest labelling each substantial reshuffle with a heading in its own right - I think there's a good listing with clear break points in her own memoirs which I can dig out soon.  Timrollpickering 20:12, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be fine with me, I just felt the need to break it up and make it more manageable.  The three main divisions correspond with the coming to power and the two subsequent General Elections. Mackensen 21:11, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relabelling of parliamentary terms as PM 

message: Am I the only one who thinks that the photo of her looks rather sinister? Almost vampiric? Mark Richards 23:23, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Sinister

message: I thought we were to use British dates for British subjects.  At any rate, is "month day," really "international"?  I thought it was primarily American. john k 00:32, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Dates

message: I was thinking perhaps the "Legacy" section should be split into "supporters" and "opponents" so both pro and anti Thatcher arguments can be listed. As is beffiting for one of the UK's most controversial Prime Ministers of the past century. G-Man 13:02, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Be careful with that - it may cause its own problems. For instance, an important part of her legacy is the vastly diminshed power of the unions. But where would you talk about it - many people support(ed) it but many also oppose(d) - by having just one legacy section you avoid this sort of issue. Pcb21| Pete 07:26, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Just a thought

message: I think we should add the Kesteven thing, perhaps in a footnote, otherwise people who think they have spotted an ommision will add it.  We can explain that it is a common but incorrect usage.  Morwen - Talk 18:36, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added the territorial qualification into the text. Do you think that will be sufficient? Proteus (Talk) 19:03, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: That looks fine. Morwen - Talk 10:05, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Kesteven