Talk:Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
Page moved to Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane --Elonka 05:42, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Reason: Dispute over how to title article for soap opera character. Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane is how her name currently appears in the credits, onscreen and in several cited secondary sources, but she is referred to differently on some other pages. Further opinions requested to help break deadlock. -- 22:56, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC: Article name change

message: A woman's maiden name is NEVER a middle name.  The surname section is purposefully misleading and should not appear in the article.  A week prior her name was different in the credits but that's conveniently not reflected in the article.  The section is grandstanding by Dougie and not relevant to the content of the article. KellyAna (talk) 22:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, in many areas of the USA, that is common practice. --- Taroaldo (talk) 22:05, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not true at all.  Name one area WITH VERIFICATION where that is true.  Women do not drop their given middle names to take their maiden names as their middle name.  KellyAna (talk) 22:07, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Many women do change their middle name to their married name upon marriage, but I don't think that's necessarily what's been done to Theresa.  Soaps love to list out all of their female characters' married names, like Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane Casey Winthrop or Erica Kane Martin Brent Cudahy Chandler whatever, but that doesn't mean that they adopted all of those names as their middle names.  — Spanish lullaby (talk) 22:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  MIDDLE NAME? 

message: I went ahead and threw in a section break to make navigating this discussion a little easier. Dougie, you say you're only interested in Passions which I think is short sighted and unfair. Naming conventions, policies, and guidelines exist to help improve all articles, not just the articles you care about. We need some uniformity and we need some stability. Forget that Passions is being canceled. Let's say they signed a contract with NBC to air for ten more years. Are you arguing that every time a female gets married or divorced that we need to continue to move her article for the next ten years?  AniMate 22:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really see why not, redirects will work to guide someone to the correct page if they enter an old name. Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia, we don't have to reprint with every change. -- Dougie WII (talk) 22:29, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason why this is a bad idea, is because you have created a standard for characters on Passions that the rest of Wikipedia will not be willing to follow. I can't find a single show where the contributors have agreed to move whenever a character gets married. You've decided that it's more important to go with current name rather than common name, and that is quite problematic for me. If that is your aim, I think we need to take this to a much wider audience and have something put into our naming conventions to reflect your position. AniMate 22:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This discussion is about this article. Her common name is "Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane" because that's what everyone calls her onscreen and what she calls herself. If someone gets married but still goes by their maiden name, then their common name would be their maiden name but that's just not the case here. -- Dougie WII (talk) 22:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dougie, this discussion isn't taking place in a vacuum. Yes, it is specific to this article, but I think taking it to a wider audience would really help nail down naming conventions for all television characters who go through multiple marriages. If the name she is best known by is "Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane" then the article should be moved there. If you want to move it again when/if she remarries, then it is not her common name and the article should stay where it is. I'm really not sure which is her common name, though it sounds like you've decided "current name" equals "common name", and I don't think that is correct or necessary. I am going to be asking for some input at the policy pages, which should at least help us pin down whether we should constantly be moving pages every time a character gets married. AniMate 00:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There may not be a cookie-cutter solution for every female soap opera character. Despite claims to the contrary, Theresa has only been legally married once and has never divorced. This is not a policy discussion but a discussion on this single character's name which I've given far more than ample evidence that it's Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane. If you disagree, then fine, but obviously continued discussion about this here is only clouding the issue. -- Dougie WII (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think this is clouding the issue at all. This is in some ways a policy discussion as well, since it's going to help us with future naming conventions. I really don't know who is right here, and by continuing to discuss this and its ramifications I think we can make some sense of this. However, you seem as quite dug into your position, and frankly it is impossible to reach any type of consensus with someone who is "right" as opposed to someone who has an opinion. Now, you are very certain that Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane is her common name. I get that. I'm not opposed to that being where the article is located. However, if she remarries and you want to move the article again, the Crane goes from being her common name to her current name. Now you can argue that current names are always or at least usually common names. Just because a debate feels cyclical, doesn't mean its pointless. I'm more than willing to change my mind about things, and hope you're as open as I am. That's all I'm really trying to say, and I really hope you don't try to stifle good faith debate here. AniMate 01:15, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If she got married to someone else with a different last name before the end of the show, I said I'd support a name change because that's the end, her name can't change again. If the show continued, I'd certainly want to wait to make sure that name had staying power. -- Dougie WII (talk) 01:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbitrary section break

message: Do you put the date that the show goes off? --M42380 (talk) 23:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's on the main Passions page. August 11, 2008 - Dougie WII (talk) 21:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  okay thanks, i did not see that. --M42380 (talk) 17:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Passions status on the other network

message: Since Theresa was married on the show's finale, is her name still Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane or is it Theresa Crane Winthrop or Theresa Winthrop, something that shows she is married to Ethan now. Or do we leave it as is, since she is known as Theresa Crane anyway.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyBanks (talk • contribs) 20:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As suspected this naming issue has come up again with the series finale. As I said I would before, I do support a name change to something including Winthrop as she just did marry Ethan Winthrop, but  the show gave us absolutely no guidance as to what exactly that name should be. I imagine Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Winthrop would be the best, but I'll happily agree with whatever the consensus is since I've probably already wasted too much of my life arguing about the name of this character. -- Dougie WII (talk) 01:10, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For most of the show's run, Theresa's surname was Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane; she was Lopez-Fitzgerald Winthrop for, what, the finale and a few episodes in 2007?  The character was best known as Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane, so I think that the article should stay where it is now. — Spanish lullaby (talk) 01:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, for most of the show's run wasn't she simply Theresa Lopes-Fitzgerald. She wasn't married to Julian that long. AniMate 05:19, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Theresa held the Crane name during her marriage to Julian (August 2001 — March 2003) and during her marriage to Alistair (October 2005 — August 2008) — so, about four-and-a-half years out of the series' nine-year run.  Lopez-Fitzgerald or Lopez-Fitzgerald Crane would be the best surname to use, but not Winthrop, which she used for only a handful of episodes.  — Spanish lullaby (talk) 05:32, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think simply Lopez-Fitzgerald is appropriate. Considering how often soap characters marry and divorce, it seems silly to move the article every time there's a wedding ceremony. Can you imagine the move history for Erica Kane? AniMate 05:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree that going back to her original maiden name would be appropriate. I'd much rather leave it as is or find a way to add Winthrop to it. == Dougie WII (talk) 06:19, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? Even though she's now divorced and remarried you'd rather leave her name as Crane than go back to her maiden name? That doesn't make sense. Her maiden name was the name she used most, though I'm sure there's some great justifications for changing the name to Winthrop, which she was never officially billed with and only used for a handful of episodes at most. AniMate 06:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that it makes much difference I guess, but she was not divorced, she was widowed. -- Dougie WII (talk) 05:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

text: The thing about the Crane name is that Theresa's usage of it and the Crane power were major plot points during the series, especially in 2002 and 2006 — 2007.  Since the series ended with Theresa no longer a Crane, and because she was Lopez-Fitzgerald for about the same length of time as she was Crane, I can support either name, but I'm completely against Winthrop.  We didn't change Kay Bennett to Kay Bennett Lopez-Fitzgerald, Fancy Crane to Fancy Crane Lopez-Fitzgerald, or Paloma Lopez-Fitzgerald to Paloma Lopez-Fitzgerald Bennett, because they held those names for less than a month; why, then, move the article to Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald Winthrop?  — Spanish lullaby (talk) 16:36, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree about the Winthrop. It makes no sense, but I support just Lopez-Fitzgerald. AniMate 22:30, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Name