Talk:Kennington Park

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Where did the timeline come from? Let's hope it is not a copyvio. --Tagishsimon
No it is all my own work over many years Szczels 16:17, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

message: NOTES ON THE SOURCES OF INFORMATION ON KENNINGTON PARK
* Introduction: I was living right next to Kennington Park for eight years fbefore I started to realise it had an interesting history. Much of my information was gathered in an informal way rather through scholarly research (although I have now done a PhD) so exact or authoritative references are difficult to give on all points. However some notes may help those interested in the quality of information offered here, especially as this is an issue for Wikipedia.
:Another point is that I aimed to give a sense of the history by inferring things from context. e.g. William Blake lived nearby and being the person he was must surely have visited the spouting hole that the common was. Tom Paine visited Blake and we can imagine that with their interest in democracy Blake would have taken Paine to the speakers corner. This is conjecture but it immediately gives a clearer sense of what was going on at the common (at least for those who know anything about Blake or Paine!)
:Having said this much research needs to be done and I see this timeline a pointer for researchers rather than the last word summary of decades of scholarly work. 
* Capital Punishment: The records of the hangings are kept with those of Surrey as the area was originally part of Surrey rather than inner London as it now is. This means that studies of 'The London Hanged' (Peter Linebaugh) barely mention Kennington Common. There is a small hand-typed study that is kept in the Lambeth Archive at the Minet Library (Kennington Commons Gallows by George H. Wright 1997). Some hangings were famous and widely reported in the newspapers of the day - e.g. The Nine members of The Manchester Regiment  who were hung drawn and quartered in 1746.
A list of those executed is now online. See: 
* The Chartists: The Chartist 'monster rally' of 10th April 1848 is what I'd call an incontravertible fact. The idea that the common was enclosed in response to that event was something that occured to me like a light going on in my head whilst immersed in this part of the research. It is my interpretation and seems very likely to be true rather than an incontravertible fact.
:What is more certain is that historians have tended to represent the Chartists as a failure with 10th April 1848. Again I think that this is due to their vested interests rather than anything of a factual nature. See Dorothy Thompson's work for a more sympathetic approach.
According to her there is still no authoritative overview of Chartism. This is partly due to the fact that Chartism was a federation of small groups widely spread and partly the above mentioned bias against working class self activity.
The tired old case for Chartism as a failure can be found in "Failed Chartist Demonstration in London' History Today Vol 48 issue 4 pp 34/35 1998
* John Wesley and Methodism: I would love to find the speeches that he or George Whitfield made on the common. There is a small Wesley museum in London...
* Cricket history. Details were taken from the web and have not been verified in archives. Note how the formation of the SCCC happened in time for cricket to be cleared from the common by the enclosure. See also more comments below...
* Prehistory c1500BC Recently discovered post stumps in the South Thames foreshore point to a ritual jetty or the first London Bridge. This was from a 'Time Team' television show on archeology around 2002.
* Other early informations are taken from secondary sources in the local archive. These are old but rarely contemporary so may be liable to error.
* The Horns Tavern is fascinating although again, sources of information are a couple of old magazine articles in the archive and I don't know if any of the papers from the Horns survive anywhere.
* "1824 St Marks Church by D.R.Roper, built on enclosed common land over the river Effra. Promoted as the 'salvation of the common'." There may be surviving records kept by Church of England authorities but the bias that these records are likely to contain is clear from the history.
* First photo of a crowd Just how the negative of the first photograph of a crowd taken by William Kilburn got to be kept in the Royal archives at Windsor Castle is another story I'd like to hear more about. That the right to such an iconic image of the dawn of modernity should be owned by the Queen of England an almost laughable reflection on the owning classes fear of the masses.
* The Enclosures. The key work on enclosure, according to Linebaugh is:
J.M. Neeson Commoners: common right, enclosure and social change in England 1700 - 1820  Cambridge 1993 
The enclosures signified a profound change in human relations to their means of subsistence.
* 1854 Kennington Park opened maintained by the Crowns Office of Works. Who controlled the park and when, needs more research and there is probably stuff to be found as there are many records from this era. It is said that KP was the first 'Municipal Public park' but the details of this claim have yet to be clarified. Does this refer to 1887 when KP maintenance passed over to London's Metropolitan Board of Works?
* 1900 Bandstand completed with seated concerts from military bands playing there until 1950 Sundays, Wednesdays and bank holidays - This was 'Rational Recreation'. This idea comes mainly from Chris Water's 'British Socialists and the Politics of Popular Culture 1884- 1914' Manchester UP 1990. It is shocking how socialists undermined working class cultural self-activity and promoted middle class ideas of culture. See also my own Conspiracy of Good Taste Working Press 1993.
* KP and war. The Imperial War Museum has an archive within a short walk of KP and I have to admit not to have done much work there. The intensity of the impact of the world wars onto the local communities and the park is hard to communicate in a timeline.
* 1926 KP reoccupied during the General Strike More to be done on this. Where is the best archive of London on the General Strike?
* Mass gatherings return to the park in the 1970s. I did do some scholarly work here in the records of the local council. It was however shocking what had been lost. I do have a detailed list of park usuage from 1986 to 1996 at least.
* Conclusion: Much to be done but this rough timeline does at least indicate that there is no doubt that Kenningto Park is a site of historical importance and that it deserves to be the focus of more research.
Please do add in comments...
Back to Kennington_Park timeline
The metaphor of a 'level playing field' as relating to the idea of the commons, has come to me from Tony Moody who runs the local cricket project, which uses Catchy Shubby cricket as a selector mechanism that creates a level playing field. Catchy Shubby Cricket was invented in Jamaica but is resisted by the English Cricket establishment who do not want interference with their selection proceedures.
The idea that the flood silt would re-level the playing fields every season makes a lot of sense in relation to the early references to games being played on the common. There is even some speculation that cricket may have been invented on the Kennington common green! (The earliest image of cricket on a badge seems to be an image of the common).
Szczels 14:28, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes on the sources of my information 

message: I was shocked to see the extent of the trenches over the south field in Rob Patemans excellent pamphlet. Somehow the extent of the horror of it got through to me. And of course there were many more bodies left than I had estimated from my original research in Lambeth Archives in 1996/7. See links on main page for text.
Also the story related on 
Perhaps I should put this photo on the main page?
Szczels 12:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Stefan, should there be a mention that the text of the memorial is misquoted? It's only a slight change, but the original text uses "and" where the inscription uses "but". The poem was given at the inauguration in 1993 of President Clinton, and can be read in full here. Coconino 09:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An interesting point. I don't know what to think about thisSzczels 12:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maya Angelou herself used "but" in her 1993 reading at the inauguration (as evidenced on this Youtube video clipat c. 04:35), so I suggest no amendment is required.  Lang rabbie 20:39, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aha! So she does! Thank's for that clarification; it seems the Clinton Foundation web site is in error. Coconino 14:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The shelter disaster and the new memorial

message: There was a Theatre event in the east park extension in the Eighties one November 5th. There were giant effigies of Thatcher and ? and a bonfire It was really spectacular especially for people in the Brandon towers. Anyone have any date and details? The theatre company? etc.
Szczels 12:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eighties Bonfire event(s)? 

message: "Chartism was the first national working class organisation and the rally on 10 April 1848 the high point of the Chartist movement."
I'd dispute that. The movement had been in decline for years by 1848. The Kennington Common rally was more a last hurrah than a high point. Legion 22:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What, I wonder, is the provenance of the "monster"? Is it an attempt at a joke?
Sorry if I come off as a bit impolite. It's late, and I'm never particularly good at choosing my words at the best of times. ^^;  Legion 23:22, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chartism

message: The original park railings of the enclosure where removed in the WW1. But when were they replaced and with what money? By my memory I would say it was in the mid to late Eighties...
Szczels (talk) 13:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Railings 

message: It is a pity no-one wants to keep this updated since I left the area...
The Children's playground was finished and opened. When?
I'm sure other notable events have taken place...
Szczels (talk) 09:47, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post 2007 events please? 

message: "Kennington Park is often erroneously cited as the birthplace of English-born backyard wrestler "Dynamite Dragon" Gareth-Davis King. While his official ring introduction does have him hailing from "The Mean Streets of Kennington Park", he actually lived in nearby DeLaune Street, and has often returned to his local neighbourhood to help promote independent backyard wrestling promotions and encourage cross promotion between English promtions, and his own West Australian based Modern Athletic Wrestling League. He often cites the area around Kennington Park as a big influence on him as a child."
Needs dates and to be put in timeline if he actually existed! Szczels (talk) 15:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Just taken out suspecting a hoax

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