Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Singapore/2005 archive

message: There are certain clashes that worth noting: Woodlands New Town is within the Sembawang GRC, Woodlands region. Same for the other neighbourhood estates article. Slivester 04:18, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Government Housing District

message: I had revised a template for photography, and I am sure there are various sections that require amendments. See Template:Photograph info Slivester 10:50, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Template for Photography

message: Someone should take a look at the above user's edits. There is a lot of NPOV language floating around his articles and at least one, Chia Thye Poh, is copyviol - lifted from http://www.sfdonline.org/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/chia1.html. --khaosworks 15:47, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll redo the entry =p  -- Melsith 17:47, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 194.206.179.4

message: Yes, I know this sounds a bit controversial. But I think it's a good idea, considering how similar the two really are.
You can see my original suggestion here: Talk:British and Malaysian English differences#Merge. All comments are welcome! -- ran (talk) 04:56, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)
Personally I'd rather have the two entries apart =p -- Melsith 17:45, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Merging [[Manglish]] and [[Singlish]]

message: Can someone help me do a lot of this repetitive work? I've done a template alrady, which you can paste in every MRT station article (ie. Punggol MRT Station, City Hall MRT Station), which I have done for every blue link so far. However, for the stubs, a lot of information can be added with the current format (see some of the current articles for an example) without much thought, just that its tedious. For example, for each line it is on, specifying whether its an above-ground MRT station or an underground one. Of course, specifying it is a Mass Rapid Transit station in the first place (Singapore's kind), rather than the bland "MRT" or generalised "railway" or "metro" station. Don't do that. We have a very good page at Mass Rapid Transit, after all. ;-)
The MRT station template is available by typing .
To specify whether its above-ground or below-ground, use above-ground or underground.
Then of course, if you know anything about the station, a map, photo, what street it is on, what landmarks are nearby, overpasses, etc. 
I just feel when these tasks are completed, we can go on to adding more information, but this foundation should be worked out first. --
:To be honest, that template makes the page look a tad messy because it is so long. How about looking at the ones for the Sydney lines, or the London ones for comparison, and we might adopt one of them? I especially like the vertical station list for the Sydney system.--Huaiwei 13:34, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'll try taking a look at the other ones. In my opinion, it only looks messy because of the alignment, which can be corrected. It does give a sense of cohesion, if not being rather especially useful for the stubs. -- Natalinasmpf 19:04, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Refer to Sydney underground railways, for example, although it is a listing of lines. We can adapt it to show a list of stations instead. Alaso, look at the one used for the London Underground in Acton Town tube station, for example. Maybe we can combine the two for our pages? :D--Huaiwei 19:29, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Repetitive MRT Station work

message: I was forced to take a Semi-WikiVacation due to real life committments, but now I'm back I realized that there is a lot of things that is left undone and urgently needs to be cleared up. I'm rather upset by a few first-hand experience that involve Singapore-related Wikipedia articles as well.
# Public Transportation Map of Singapore - This map has been repeatedly put on WP:CP, even thought it should be under Fair Use dealing. What I've heard so far is that there's no Fair Use in Singapore and LTA has properitary rights over the map. However, I did a check on the Internet and Singapore's copyright office (Intellectual Property Office of Singapore) does have a "Fair Dealing" clause. . Unless ressolved once and for all, WP:CP will always come back to haunt this map.
# Anglo-Chinese School - May have over-emphasised on its achievements. Previously talkpage had comments that the article looked more like an ad. One of my friends actually questioned the validity of this encyclopedia althogether, especially when he felt that the criticisms of the school being elitist/snobbish is somewhat downplayed. I would be interested to hear on what you think on this one.
# Singapore gay movement - Needs a proper cleanup, or listed on VFD. Sometimes we just fail to know how many actual visitors look at our articles for research and information, as well as trusting that these articles are neutral and reliable. It was listed as an problem article some time ago for its advocate nature, and surprisingly some joker in my JC actually used this information to his research paper on prejudices and discrimmination.
# Nanyang Girls' High School - Listed for POV Check months ago for some alleged prejudices of its students, annoyed NYGH alum-mata has removed the offending section and now it's a very poor stub. Needs to be reworked on. See Talk:Nanyang Girls' High School
*Update: The article is being slowly reworked. Contributions are welcome!
# NPNT - Going, going, gone on VFD. If it doesn't qualify as a full-fledged article, then at least it should qualify to be on Wiktionary.
If you have time to spare, please do have a look and make changes/take action nessecery to ressolve te above problems, as well as giving your comments.
- Mailer Diablo 18:02, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: School tales and image are precisely just that, and not everyone agrees with them. We have the Nanyang article getting stripped down because alumnus disagrees with the over empahsis on reputations, and in the ACS page, we have people questioning its validity because it didnt talk enough on that! Wikipedia is an encyclopedia...not Friday Weekly or the The New Paper. While it can of coz discuss on school reputations and discriminations, it cannot over-present them just because the image is over-blown amongst some quaters of Singaporean society. So we all know there is a reputation of ACS boys being arrogant. What else can be said about this which are encyclopedic?--Huaiwei 19:23, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Suggest a section on famous alumni, and Khaosworks can be the first name there. Other schools' pages can do the same thing also .  Vsion 02:33, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Famous alumni is a good idea - some university pages do have them already. But I'm not going to be on any of them. --khaosworks 02:54, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
I've posted a bit of a rant on the ACS Talk page. I regret having to have written those remarks, but I don't regret what I wrote. Those articles need a lot of help. --khaosworks 12:50, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
===Singapore gay movement===
Your JC friend is no joker. I can vouch for the veracity of every single sentence in this article. It was originally written by the father of the Singapore gay movement himself, Alex Au and everyone in PLU knows the events that unfolded. Attempting to discredit or remove this article would be a great disservice to the documentation of evolving Singaporean history.165.21.154.15 18:37, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues related to SG Articles 

message: Your JC friend is no joker. I can vouch for the veracity of every single sentence in this article. It was originally written by the father of the Singapore gay movement himself, Alex Au and everyone in PLU knows the events that unfolded. Attempting to discredit or remove this article would be a great disservice to the documentation of evolving Singaporean history.165.21.154.15 18:37, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Singapore gay movement]]

message: If you trace the VFD trail, you'll eventually find that it was me who sent it to the gallows. ASGM and NMNHNLM were also done in by me. The revised reasons for deletion vary slightly for each, but all were non-notable at the very least. This is Wikipedia, not the Coxford Singlish Dictionary created by TalkingCock.  Still, if they qualify under another section of the Wikiproject, by all means go ahead. CABAL 10:35, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[NPNT]]

message: What do you people think of collaborating on a project on that, or do you think they can survive as two seperate pages?--Huaiwei 18:09, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Collaborating will be good, I like to read Malaysia articles myself (and Dr M's page is better than Lky's!)  I’m too new to comment on the 2nd question. Another related thing: I was tracking the UK election and it was a lot of work. Don’t know when is Singapore's election coming. That could be good for publicity, but we need more users support, and hell will break loose. ;p -- Vsion 02:27, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Collobarion of this sort will be no diff from that between the UK and Ireland, and of HK and Macau, from what we can see in the existing regional current event stuff. Afterall, quite a number of our biggest contributors happen to span the causeway anyway, so I would think this is a natural progression. :D Elections...much talk about it, but only the presidential one has to be held this year. the GE is at most 2 years away, but no one will know...yet :D--Huaiwei 15:25, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current events in Malaysia and Singapore? 

message: Hi,
Just came across the History pages of the notice board and I realized Huaiwei reverted my delete. Just to clarify:
* I removed the discussion on :Category:Republic of Singapore Navy naval bases under "Singapore related candidates for deletion" as it was a resolved issue (or so I thought, a consensus has been reached ).
* In any case, I assumed that the section contained ongoing debates, since the section lead clearly says:
 This is a list of current deletion debates...
I do apologize if I offended Huaiwei. I didn't know that "[i]t is meant to be a reference point for all cases, resolved or otherwise." (quoted from History pages, edit summary by Huaiwei on 6 May 2005, 19:53 (UTC))
-Travisyoung 03:35, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No lah I am not offended. I suppose I didnt make the page's usage clear in the first place, so I should share the blame, but anyhow, the page's usage shdnt be dictated by me alone also. My intention of that list is so that we know what changes has ever taken place involving sg cats, and if any sg cat should be deleted before, we might wish to collaborate to write articles such that the cat cat be created again. My biggest concern now is to rekindle the Singapore cuisine category, which was deleted simply coz someone from another city outside SEA fails to understand that cuisine names are kinda shared in this region.--Huaiwei 09:55, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of past content on notice board 

message: Discussion moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Singaporean places--Huaiwei 20:59, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Places in Singapore 

message: Hi, is there a single page that shows all the templates related to Singapore? I'm thinking of something like what appear in User:Ran. It would be very useful, especially for newcomers, to have a quick overview of the structure of Singapore related articles, and it also consolidates many links which is good for quick accessing. If there isn't one now, can we create it? A user page is not suitable, maybe we can show the templates in Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Singapore, but I'm not quite sure. A side-benefit is that it would encourage more visits to the portal; also I only then need to bookmark the portal in my browser and can access most articles in just two mouse clicks. -- Vsion 20:42, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this is a rather high-density alternative (and may be good for those with low-resolution monitors), but wouldn't it be difficult to maintain, since the template of each sub-topic could still be evolving? I like what appear in your userpage, and seriously tempted to do the same in mine as well. ;-)  Vsion 21:08, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Singapore-related templates 

message: I've decided to archive the talkpage (of ugly vandal warnings) and add the ISP's  notice for the three major ISPs (PacNet, Singnet and Starhub) and welcome message for Singapore IPs. This is to make the Singapore contributors feel more welcomed. If you have any questions or suggestions regarding this, please let me know at my talkpage! =) - Mailer Diablo 18:33, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean Slate for Singapore IPs 

message: I think its high time we started articles on the central political buildings that house the critical government functions in Singapore...I was shocked not to find them! And I just wanted to write a description of City Hall MRT Station! Oh well. Lets get started on it. Two things I'm about to start: Parliament House, Singapore and Padang (Singapore). We really need to get into this, otherwise its going to be very hard  organising, classfiying and categorising areas later if we procrastinate, especially if we need to address them  collectively. Oh, the the article on Singapore's urban geography could address such areas too, not too detailed (as that wouldn't be its roled) but show how they are interlinked. We better decide some framework and taxonomy immediately (what gets categorised where), so we don't have any problems with redundancy, contradiction, or vagueness, especially division of information into geography, politics, economy, culture and so forth, they all have some overlapping areas which need to be resolved on which gets where. Oh, then there's the issue of the reference to the central business district as compared to the Central Area (which is what the Urban Redevelopment Authority classifies it as). -- Natalinasmpf 19:33, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha....try figuring out if we should use Padang (Singapore) or Padang, Singapore first! :D--Huaiwei 17:19, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, the Padang isn't a town, its just a (prominent) common field, so Padang by itself is already a city in Indonesia, hence the reason for just brackets. Although redirects would suffice: doesn't seem to be much difference. -- Natalinasmpf 18:21, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but when would we use brackets, and when do we use commas? It would be best if we could standardise the way our articles are titled.--Huaiwei 18:40, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: I may consider taking photos of MRT stations and uploading them when I have the time. ;) - Mailer Diablo 19:50, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Singapore political and muncipal buildings 

message: Yes, standardisation is an important issue....starting with regional classification. We need to agree on a standard taxonomy for locations in Singapore...starting with the classification under the Urban Redevelopment Authority, but some of the 55 regions doesn't include things like Raffles Place, Chinatown or Little India so I'm a tad confused. This applies to many other areas as well, and I would like to standardise them under one hierarchial classification system. I realise there are many exceptions because a collection of a few streets can house an entire commerical district and 50,000 people within the Central Region, for example. Ultimately, I also need to know the distinctions between the Central Region, the Central Area and the Downtown Core....they all have the hallmark of "CBD" or "central", but what are the distinctions, besides size? Here's my current interpretation: Central Region is just a convenient region to draw up to divide Singapore into five proportionate regions (ie. like east, west, central, etc.) - the Central Area is the collective term for Singapore's Central Business District(s), while the Downtown Core is the skyscraper filled area near the mouth of the Singapore River of high commercial density, and was the original port area under the Singapore Raffles Plan. Orchard Road for example, under URA classification, isn't part of the Downtown Core , while Shenton Way is. Which I'm just wondering, is there any apparent economical distinction between say, the Downtown Core? Is it aesthetic? Merely geographical? They both seem to be part of the ERP area. I'm advocating the URA standard, which we can reference to from here - http://www.ura.gov.sg/dc/street_name/street_name.html, but I don't know what areas like Raffles Place and other towns are classified as. That said, I'm thinking of a taxonomy more of, URA Region (ie. Central Region) => Urban Planning Area => Town => Street? I know sometimes the area IS the town, but what about areas where its otherwise? But I believe the URA classification standard will speed up editing due to lack of ambiguity, or explain concepts better we know, but couldn't articulate before, we can have a standard to put places which don't have a common theme like Ang Mo Kio (versus Shenton Way) in templates other than just a template which has collection of places? We could have a taxonomy of templates. -- Natalinasmpf 21:34, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Standardisation

message: We really need to get started on those, the first three holding up the FAC process for Singapore - and GRC's, in terms of elaboration on a general level. Ie. Ministry of Finance AND the Minister of Finance (Singapore), and this will also be helpful in aiding the wikifying and organising of the articles for Singapore politicians...(notice how someone like Richard Hu doesn't even have his own article?)...also I'm thinking of modelling the Government of Singapore article to something like the Federal Government of the United States (in terms of formatting and style, not literally). -- Natalinasmpf 12:39, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Singaporean government, departments, ministries and GRC's 

message: Well I'll try to get to it, but I need to ell you that Demographics of Singapore and Bus transport in Singapore really needs some emergency editing and substantiation, especially for articles of their stature. -- Natalinasmpf 16:42, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  emergency cleanup needed 

message: If anyone wants to organise a meet-up over some kopi, feel free to post here. Police permit normally not required. :D (You can also make use of the Wikipedia groups on Meetup.com)
=== June 2005 meetup anyone? ===
I will be effectively unemployed by tomorrow, so just wondering if anyone is interested for a meetup for a chat anytime after the school exam period (for the benefit of our still-schooling folks)..probably in late May or June?--Huaiwei 08:30, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No responses to your call? I think the "scholars" are all doing temp jobs now :P Kimchi.sg | Talk 01:31, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh I just realised half the folks here are studying overseas. :D --Huaiwei 03:44, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha I just might be going back to SG to bring back all the tons of stuff I left. Probably  Jul-Aug. But I think we're better off having online tea instead, eh? -Hmib 15:36, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Online tea? Awwww...haha. Come to think of it, I dont even have a more feasible means of communication with anyone of you. MSN anyone?--Huaiwei 10:28, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we all have MSN, at least, seeing how popular MSN messenger is in SG. haomin at erpz dot net. But seeing how the summer break in SG is coming to an end soon (while mine just started yesterday)... -Hmib 02:04, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's coffee for all! :D Too bad we can't share real stuff online. :> --Kimchi.sg | Talk 10:11, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Damn the shifted timetable that polytechnics use. :< On a related note, is anyone here from Temasek Poly? CABAL 11:56, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean the school year that starts in September? That is the correct timetable, actually. -Hmib 22:50, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: Is this meeting welcomed for every SGpedian? Terenceong1992 15:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

text: A gathering for an online community? I've done it before. The purpose of the gathering should be defined first, or participants may end up sitting around just looking at each others faces during the gathering. A library would be a good location for the gathering. - yxTay 02:56, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: So how are things going. How about a MSN meetup first, and later we really meet. National Library????? How are we going to talk. Actually what do we do? --Terenceong1992 14:59, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Hah I did not even notice this section till now. I would certainly love to do a meetup, and I am relatively flexible with my time (for now). We have...erm....about one week left before the month is over thou! :D--Huaiwei 17:07, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Singapore meetups 

message: I will be effectively unemployed by tomorrow, so just wondering if anyone is interested for a meetup for a chat anytime after the school exam period (for the benefit of our still-schooling folks)..probably in late May or June?--Huaiwei 08:30, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No responses to your call? I think the "scholars" are all doing temp jobs now :P Kimchi.sg | Talk 01:31, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh I just realised half the folks here are studying overseas. :D --Huaiwei 03:44, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha I just might be going back to SG to bring back all the tons of stuff I left. Probably  Jul-Aug. But I think we're better off having online tea instead, eh? -Hmib 15:36, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Online tea? Awwww...haha. Come to think of it, I dont even have a more feasible means of communication with anyone of you. MSN anyone?--Huaiwei 10:28, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we all have MSN, at least, seeing how popular MSN messenger is in SG. haomin at erpz dot net. But seeing how the summer break in SG is coming to an end soon (while mine just started yesterday)... -Hmib 02:04, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's coffee for all! :D Too bad we can't share real stuff online. :> --Kimchi.sg | Talk 10:11, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Damn the shifted timetable that polytechnics use. :< On a related note, is anyone here from Temasek Poly? CABAL 11:56, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean the school year that starts in September? That is the correct timetable, actually. -Hmib 22:50, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  June 2005 meetup anyone? 

message: How about a December 2005 meetup? If the scholars aren't out of country for the hols, that is. :D Kimchi.sg | Talk 16:03, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this meeting welcomed for every SGpedian? Terenceong1992 15:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

text: A gathering for an online community? I've done it before. The purpose of the gathering should be defined first, or participants may end up sitting around just looking at each others faces during the gathering. A library would be a good location for the gathering. - yxTay 02:56, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: So how are things going. How about a MSN meetup first, and later we really meet. National Library????? How are we going to talk. Actually what do we do? --Terenceong1992 14:59, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Hah I did not even notice this section till now. I would certainly love to do a meetup, and I am relatively flexible with my time (for now). We have...erm....about one week left before the month is over thou! :D--Huaiwei 17:07, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  December 2005 meetup? 

message: (Allow me to have this survey for some time)
May I know any of these Chinese SGpedians have any knowledge of Hokkien, Teochew, Cantonese or any other dialects and have an account in the Chinese, Malay or Minnan wikipedia? I need help in translating articles concerning about Singapore into Chinese.
If anyone is interested, list your dialects spoken and your ability to speak your dialect. 
The purpose of this survey is to expand our article editing into the Minnan and Chinese Wikipedia, and if possible, a creation of a Cantonese wikipedia. I have noticed that many of the younger generation of Singaporeans have lost their ability to speak their dialects. Please do not undertake me as a "show-off". 
Since most Chinese Singaporeans, especially the older generation, have dialect names. And having the ability to understand dialects would help us to write the names in dialect, such as User:Mr Tan/Wee Kim Wee (the dialect name may be wrong), and Goh Chok Tong.
Feel free to ask questions concerning this survey, if you have any doubts.
I"ll give the ratings in Class order:
* Class 0:Unable to speak or understand your native dialect(s)
* Class 1: Having a knowledge of only a smattering of dialect words and phrases (can understand to a simple extent in spoken dialect, but unable to reply)
* Class 2: Having the ability to understand dialect(s), but only having the ability to converse haltingly
* Class 3: Having the ability to understand dialect(s) fluently, able to converse reasonably
* Class 4: Having the ability to understand and converse dialect(s) fluently
* Class 5: Having a profound knowledge of dialect(s)
List your entries here:
1. Tan (I'm not old!): 
** Cantonese, class 4
** Teochew, class 3
** Hokkien, class 2
2. Goh wz:
** Hokkien, class 2
3. Hmib
** Cantonese-1 (not native)
** Wuyu-2 (1/2 native)
** Xiangyu-1 (1/2 native)
4. Kimchi.sg
** Cantonese class 3
** Hokkien class 0 :(
5. Slivester
** Teochew, class 4
6. Cowboycaleb
** Hakka, class 2
7. Alien2 Classless I dream and talk in Minnan, plus my wife talk to me in Hakka, I read old script in Taiwan and enjoy reading Ho-lo scripts & Greek!Alien2 21:20, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey on Chinese dialects 

message: Can someone help to ID this image, which tournament is it and who is lifting the cup? Thanks. --Vsion 10:18, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Isnt that last year's tiger cup final match? The person is the team captain...cant remember his name. :D--Huaiwei 15:46, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! Team captain is a great hint, led me to his name immediately: Aide Iskandar. There is currently no picture at all regarding sports in Singapore. This fair-use image will make do temporarily. I hope to find a picture of Li Jiawei also, but no luck so far.  ;-) -- Vsion 19:04, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hehe...just curious. Where did you get these images from?--Huaiwei 05:43, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a screenshot from the MTV of NDP songs, source: http://www.ndp.org.sg/index.jsp?page=videos.htm . Claim fair-use based on (i) screenshot, (ii) low-resolution, and (iii) non-commercial use of (iv) national education material. haha... This particular image is from (jude) Rui En's "Reach Out for the skies" . The TV haven't start playing the MTV everyday meh?  Fyi, News clippings are also eligible for fairuse, i.e. if you have a scanner. :-) -- Vsion 06:10, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha yeah she is appearing all the time on tv. :D But anyway, all these fairuse thing is making me confused. Do we now have the legal right to use them, as I remember people have complained about this before? And yes, I did wonder. If I were to snap a photo of a copyrighted map, I was wondering if I can then claim I have fairuse of it, coz I needed maps of the concept plans when I expand the Urban planning in Singapore article! :D--Huaiwei 06:33, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it depends on what publication it is; whether it is URA's publication and if the publication or map is sold for profit or has some market value. Eg. maps from the Street-Directory book should not be fair-use, but say maps in a HDB sales booklet (distributed freely to potential buyers) should be fair-use for non-commercial purpose, so long as proper attribution is given. For further reading, see fair dealing and :Image:Mrtlrt system map.gif for a copy of the copyright law and some arguments for and against. :-) -- Vsion 11:03, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seek help to ID image 

message: Ok I mentioned this before, but I would like to confirm again. Are you guys ready for a current events section for Singapore such as these in List of current events articles by region? If yes, do you guys want it to be news on Singapore only, or combine it with Malaysia? If we want to go alone, we have to REALLY work hard to ensure we capture the daily news...preferably about 2-3 entries per day? Anyone onz about working on this with me? Thanks! ;)--Huaiwei 11:59, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in, it is quite fun actually to update news that are of interest to me (sports, elections, and yeah ... political scandal !?!) and I support combining with our dear neighbour Malaysia. --Vsion 21:47, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Great! I am generally more interested in transport, economic, urban development, and criminal news, so I suppose we are a good compliment. So I suppose its confirmed now...the new project will be called Current events in Malaysia and Singapore? LKY will be proud! ;)--Huaiwei 05:40, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

text: It's very nice. :D -- Vsion 01:45, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Current events in?

message: I wonder if any of you would like to create more articles on people like   Ee Peng Liang,Liu Kang(artist) and Anamalai Chettair.These people have helped shape Singapore.Tdxiang 03:36, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Create more articles on famous people

message: We have been tomorrowed! The editors that has been splashed with blanket coverage from the Straits Times are working on Tomorrow.sg, and even requesting help from their official site. You may want to help them out if you want, but I'd rather you guys leave it in its current form and let the SG bloggers fix up. I'm surprised that they're on Wikipedia when they have their own popular fans, I guess their true popularity are overrated by the press! ;) 
I'm binning one of the pages because they binned all the entries I submitted to Tomorrow.sg. Okay, I was joking, the real reason's that it is something that is not confirmed and has no word at all on their official website. Be it Cowboy Celeb, Xiaxue, etc Wikipedia Policies still must be adhered to.
- Mailer Diablo 11:07, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Muahaha...well yes I am a tad surprised that their own page looks kindof dissapointing considering the kind of traffic they are supposed to be getting. Is someone going to creat Mr Brown anytime soon? ;) I am not particularly interested in their entire blogging culture, so I am keeping myself out unless anything funny happens. :D--Huaiwei 11:18, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, even Tomorrow.sg is considered NN by some fellow Wikipedians, what more about Mr Brown? - Mailer Diablo 11:24, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose there is a cultural shock for bloggers when it comes to wikiing? :D--Huaiwei 12:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure it is. ;) - Mailer Diablo 13:53, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

text: Haha thats what everyone hopes for. Meanwhile, I am just selling wikipedia to anyone I happen to know and who might show interest in this. A few of them have already joined us...wished they are more active when it comes to editing thou. :D--Huaiwei 13:02, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tomorrowed! 

message: Hi i am user:tdxiang.I am working on a school newspaper and i would like all of you to express your views;on wether TT Durai should have quit.Post them on User Talk:tdxiang.ASAP.THANKS.Tdxiang 08:46, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Give you views

message: This is actually a tougher question than it looks.
What does "Hokkien" refer to? Does it refer to any dialect within Fujian (Hokkien) province? Obviously not, since there is Hakka spoken in southwestern Fujian.
Does it refer to all of Min? Obviously not, since the Fuzhou dialect (Hokchiu) is probably not considered to be "Hokkien".
Does it refer to just Min Nan? Obviously not, since Teochew is in Min Nan as well.
So what does Hokkien refer to? The dialect of Xiamen? Or the dialect of Xiamen + Zhangzhou + Quanzhou? Does anyone know?
-- ran (talk) 01:07, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
:Hakka is not a good counterexample, though, since there are Hakka speakers everywhere - that's the nature of that particular "tribe" since they were nomadic. I'd plonk for Fujian, myself, since Hokkien is translated into Mandarin here as Fujianhua. --khaosworks 01:33, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
But the entire southwestern corner of Fujian is Hakka-speaking, they're predominant there. Also, I doubt that the Minbei, Mindong dialects (e.g. Fuzhou dialect) would be considered "Hokkien" in Southeast Asia. -- ran (talk) 01:42, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
:The point I was trying to make was that Hakka may be predominant in southwest Fujian, but they are not "indigenous" to it as the Hakka can be found all over. --khaosworks 17:03, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
::My definition: The predominant dialect spoken by S.E Asian immigrants of the Fujian county, the primary dialect of the Minnan language, similar to but slightly distinct from Teochew. It's probably Zhangzhou + Quanzhou, depending on where you're.  Don't think Xiamen dialect comes into play. See helpful article Mandel 14:46, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
:Hokkien refers to Colonial British <nonsense> registrar who was sitting at a desk and said to me, Name ?  OH Titi-tat .. Place of Birth ?: China < for Chong kor > race  Chinese-Hokkien < must well be MORON so who invent it, the British transliterated it, go ask them ppl!  I am 165.21.154.113 22:52, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does "Hokkien" refer to? 

message: Errors such as spelling mistakes in Lee_Kuan_Yew page has been corrected.
Tohlz 18:51, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lee Kuan Yew Section 

message: I've just done some updating and copyedit of this stub, but it's probably still off on some facts. I recall ST featured an interview with him sometime in the last week or so, but I can't seem to find that interview anymore. Can anyone find it and do a quick check of the facts? Thx --Hamstersanonymous 10:40, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ng Ser Miang]] 

message: Hi, 
I noticed that some articles on Singaporeans are currently not in line with the official policy stated in Wikipedia:Naming conventions. In particular, it says in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) that the convention is to "use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things". For example, Bill Clinton, not William Jefferson Clinton ot William Jefferson Blythe III. =Travisyoung= 09:21, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming of Singapore-related articles 

message: There's a disproportionate amount of gay stuffs on Singapore articles! Singapore gay documentaries - nothing on Singapore documentaries!  Singapore gay theater - nothing on Singapore theater! Singapore gay businesses (whatever this means) - nothing on Singapore businesses! Singapore gay venues, gay conferences, gay charity works...  Gives someone the feeling that Singapore is a active pro-gay Asian San Francisco, which it is NOT!  So much overlapping materials and gay apologetics, which shouldn't be here in an encyclopedia... can someone merge them into a few good, well-written articles on gay people instead of making it like a mini-forum all over the place?  Just look at Paddy Chew.  I've got to look several paragraphs beneath to realize why he was notable.  Ho-hum! 165.21.154.110 23:21, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Working on it. --Miborovsky 00:56, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Same rantings 

message: Just an update to the previous editions. An example for Woodlands, Singapore. Slivester 00:23, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: How about adding population and land area (km2), assuming that the information can be obtained easily? --Vsion 02:37, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, that will be added. Slivester 08:44, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Certaintly, I will try to find some time to do that. :) Slivester 22:32, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not implement it on all the Estates in Singapore, anyway a nice one indeed. Terenceong1992 14:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Estate infobox

message: Hi. Could one of you take a quick look at Cheng sai mun ? I'm suspicious that it might be made-up vanity, but I don't know enough about Singapore pop culture to make the call. Thanks! FreplySpang (talk) 18:14, September 9, 2005 (UTC)
:I have never heard of this Cheng sai mun, neither have I heard of Lim Peh Oh. Google search turns up a paltry number of articles on them, and I dont see them talking about him besides via pages which feed on wikipedia information. Vanity seems VERY likely here! Anyone else able to verify this?--Huaiwei 17:00, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  reality check on article? 

message: Hello,I am a listener of this station,but I can't really gather much info about it.Please help me to expand it.Thank you!Tdxiang 04:28, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: More in List of radio stations in Singapore. Btw its Gold 90.5 FM...--Huaiwei 17:13, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can anyone expand [[Gold 90 FM]]? 

message: Anyone heard of sgWiki? Seems like a good place to write some articles, although it needs better maintainance... b3virq3b 09:26, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
:sgWiki resembles more of a discussion board than an encyclopedia. Of course, its simply a wiki. Nothing more than that. Slivester 10:49, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually there are hardly any information we can take from there, nor does it seem to make sense for us to move any info from here to there. Not only does it read like a discussion board, it appears to be a blog even. There are, however, some interesting stuff in very specialised fields, such as the info on buses by some bus fanatics? I am thinking of moving one article over on Somapah Bus Terminal! :D--Huaiwei 17:02, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  sgWiki 

message: I've launched a tirade suggesting how Singapore gay articles can be improved.  Please join the discussion at the talk page of Homosexuality in Singapore or Singapore gay movement for your opinions.  Thank you. Mandel 13:16, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Would someone clean up the mess I made? I'm rather tired of 1. persistent POV pushers who don't ever respond and 2. gerontocrats who think their 20000 edits make them king of wikipedia. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E 05:32, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Homosexuality in Singapore]] and all gay articles

message: User:Andylkl and I has recently introduced mini flags in the Current events in Malaysia and Singapore page to help function as little geographical markers. While he initially introduced only the national flags of the two countries, I experimented with adding Malaysian state flags as well so as to break some "monotony" or overal blandness of the list. In Talk:Current events in Malaysia and Singapore however, Andylkl says that he does find it a uncustomary to have state and country flags listed together like this, a valid concern as some may consider it a breach of flag protocol.
What do the rest of you think about it? Please contribute your views in Talk:Current events in Malaysia and Singapore! ;)--Huaiwei 18:55, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Opinions needed at current events

message: Could i request that we have some articles on the national sports associations of singapore? i'm thinking of expanding on singaporesailing. Concluding 12:15, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And why not? Please feel free to write them if you have the info. ;)--Huaiwei 03:46, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NSAs 

message: I believe this have been said before, but I have found that we can make use of the "landmarks" function in the software to denotate the venues. I have uploaded one that include some of the best-known areas and roads in Woodlands. Just open Singapore.kml from the Singapore.zip file with Google Earth. Slivester 14:46, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: But how do we incorporate that into wikipedia ah?--Huaiwei 14:31, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have not thought of that yet, perhaps as a downloadable link (of which I am not entirely sure of its state of legality to do so), but I am certain that we can come out with something. Anyway, I will be away up to the end of November due to O' levels. Slivester 13:21, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Do take a break then and concentrate. Perhaps when you are back, google would have tought of something. :D--Huaiwei 15:56, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Google Earth]] 

message: Out of interest, are shopping malls encyclopedic? Mandel 12:41, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If they become important nodes for human social life, why not? :D--Huaiwei 14:26, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Public lavatories are also important nodes for human...s...sanitary life... :) Like MRT stations and bus terminus, their encyclopedic value is at best...fuzzy. I always find that Wikipedia has too many "dead", useless or orphaned links, and that their criteria for inclusion is very lax.  I can see Wikipedia hitting 1 million articles, after which it will be arguable whether Wikipedia will remain a useful encyclopedia or merely a search tool akin to Google.  For example, when we can have a useful explanatory article call "Transportation in Singapore", having many many dead links to MRT stations and bus terminus a la a transportation menu isn't useful (at least to me).  Mandel 14:56, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There is an article on Japanese toilet, and it is a featured article. --Vsion 02:20, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing wrong with a general article on toilets, I'm talking about Pasir Ris MRT station, Male toilet Cubicle 2. Mandel 04:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

text: lol! Anyway I see your point, Mandel, but I believe red links arent bad in itself. They invite people to make them blue!--Huaiwei 21:50, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Shopping Malls

message: Jurong Falls is in the Do You Know... section of Main Page! It's so rewarding to have a Singapore article on Main Page at last! :-D Kimchi.sg | Talk 10:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha...but its the fifth appearance of an sg-related article on the main page liao loh! :D Wikipedia:SGpedians%27_notice_board#.5B.5BWP:FA.7CFeatured_articles.5D.5D_.26_honourable_mentions--Huaiwei 15:54, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  =D Sengkang 02:36, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: On the Main Page...

message: Don and Drew...it needs expansion...Tan Ding Xiang 陈鼎翔 11:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Don and Drew Show]] 

message: Ok,remember this blind S'pore DJ?He passed away recently.But who was he and when did he die?--Tan Ding Xiang 陈鼎翔 02:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roger Khoo 

message: I have started this article today with the knowledge I have concurrently. I sensed great potential for this article, as well as the history of television broadcasting in Singapore, really fascinating to me. Just that history of broadcasting is rather a vague concept to me; I was born where too late to understand the transition of SBC to TCS. Slivester 11:21, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good content but let me correct the English, okay? I need an opportunity to practise writing English and Wikipedia is just the place. :D -- Kimchi.sg | Talk 15:07, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly, I wrote it in such a way even my English teachers will kill me. Haha. :) Slivester 23:53, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I went over it and corrected most, if not all, of the English already. I hope no sentence was damaged in the process, but there were some redundant or irrelevant parts of sentences that didn't survive the cut. And it would be good if we have a lot more sources... ;)Kimchi.sg | Talk 09:21, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Broadcasting in Singapore]]

message: I would like to bring to notice that Thum Ping Tjin article was being attacked  and it somehow escape our radar screens for half a month. Because of that, it is now nominated for AfD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thum Ping Tjin. Assuming the result will be "keep", please add Thum Ping Tjin to your watchlist and help to watch over it. Thnks. --Vsion 18:12, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Got it. Slivester 05:59, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandal alert 

message: Should we have an IRC channel?--Tan Ding Xiang 陈鼎翔 03:03, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds great, at least you get realtime updates. :p I suggest the use of GalaxyNet, #wikipedia. Get some guys to register, hehe. Slivester 05:51, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Yeah, that worked similarly for secondary schools. The way I did to gain access is to get someone with a bouncer mIRC script, and set the port to connect to the his/her computer at port other than the default IRC ports, and he/she will subsequently connect to an IRC server through his/her computer. In that way, it acts almost like a proxy. :p Slivester 23:47, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I think we can do it at home if we got computers...--Tan Ding Xiang 陈鼎翔 02:31, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't tell me you're all handling Wiki tasks from poly/school PCs... CABAL 10:17, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: NUS and NTU hostels are connected to their respective school networks. ;-) -- Kimchi.sg | Talk 14:46, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  IRC? 

message: Cont'd from archive 1: User:Jiang has started a WikiProject for Chinese surnames. — Instantnood 13:22, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Chinese surnames on Wikipedia

message: Anyone having problems with blocked IP addresses recently?  Don't come often nowadays and I've noticed I'm blocked completely the last two times I turned up.  Despite having complained several times to the admins, their rationale is they'll have to block vandals till they drop dead. Well, the vandal(s) is not gone, but sooner or later I'll drop out of the project.  What good is it when you can't even reply to questions on your talk page? Mandel 07:25, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You arent alone. I was blocked 4 times in less than two weeks just a week ago. IPs used by sg ISPs are often similar, and hence results in so much problems for sg users in particular with the increase in viewership (and vandals). I am expecting tonnes more after this sunday.....--Huaiwei 08:56, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Too bad Wikipedia doesn't allow users to access at all through IP anonymizers such as Tor and Privoxy. :'( Kimchi.sg | Talk 09:18, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been blocked FOUR times. It is very annoying, and I can't stand it! I cannot edit any articles, and once I was half way editing and I was blocked. My IP is shared with a vandal, who vandalises articles. I have to email the administrators and also have to put a special section on my talk page. I hope Wikipedia does something about it. Terenceong1992 04:59, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I was somehow blocked for a few seconds earlier...and that nearly caused me to tear my hair out. Should all affected parties write a combined message to the admins to resolve this?--Huaiwei 11:53, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I was blocked in the evening (GMT+8) for an hour (the time blocked), thanks to the user 202.156.64 who vandalises Wikipedia. I couldn't edit articles for an hour. Terenceong1992 14:48, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If they can trace downloaders of MP3s right down to the cable modem, why can't they trace Wikipedia abusers likewise? :-( Kimchi.sg | Talk 14:59, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Tracing down to that level requires ISP-level access. If you've ever performed a detailed trace that gets you location information, you'll notice that it is always stopped at the lowest level under the control of a ISP's machine. Only the ISP itself can trace it directly to the source. CABAL 13:47, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Today I'm blocked again. I'm outa here. Mandel 12:18, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: They are more interested in downloading pirated MP3 music and video files via P2P. That is their main priority, but they may eventually. Terenceong1992 13:37, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Today I'm still blocked.  All four times by four different sysops.  It's a real pain in the arse.  I think I'll come back a week later. Mandel 10:46, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: One week on and still blocked. Mandel 14:34, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Blocked Addresses

message: There is an article about Dunman High School's GEP. I think it should be deleted, it is not encyclopaedic. Also, it is a case study and has things like teacher's names, and where the students come from which school. This should be voted for deletion, or maybe speedy deletion. Such articles on Wikipedia brings down the standard like written in the Sunday Times when Jimbo said something about the quality. Terenceong1992 04:39, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't you have the honour of putting it up for VfD? I'll put it on VfD. ;) Kimchi.sg | Talk 06:12, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

text: On second thought, shall we trim out the un-encyclopaedic material and then merge the remainder with the main DHS article? Then we won't need to go through 5 days of AfD voting. -- Kimchi.sg | Talk 06:25, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have placed the notice template for its merger to DHS. The name of the teachers, as well as the talk page (an exact duplicate of the article), has been removed too. Hope that someone will make an effort to merge it. *drew 00:57, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[DHS GEP]]

message: I've just added a huge chunk of (specific) info to Primary School Leaving Examination, and I think colloborating on this one for a week will yield fruitful results...you get the gist on how the various formats are elaborated, scoring is done, etc. so perhaps we could all pitch in, perhaps add a photo or two (can anyone think of ten year series could fit in?), a criticisms section et al we could make this quite a good article. I can envision this being an FA next year, or something. -- Natalinasmpf 15:30, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, sure no prob. I see whether I still have this info. And I will add it on the article. Terenceong1992 15:47, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Need some help from the younger ones too, since especially I just realised there have been some major revisions to the format since I took it three years ago. :D -- Natalinasmpf 16:19, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  an informal COTW 

message: Can anyone provide authorative information on Singapore's losses in WW2 1941-45?--Berndd11222 23:52, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, total losses due to Japanese occupation of Singapore civilians. Is there a modern reliable source that we can post to the Wikipedia WW2 casualties page? Now we have 150,000 civilian dead based on a citation by RJ Rummel of evidence from the post war trials of the Japanese.--Berndd11222 01:13, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Are Holocaust figures counted as casualties of war? I think they count as victims of war crimes, rather than casualties, so I would similarly think that those dying under the Sook Ching et al and the Kempetai would not count as casualties per se (ie. they didn't die in an air raid, while fighting, et al., they died at the hands of the secret police, of starvation, etc.) ... although I'm not sure what the criteria is. The figures for the Sook Ching itself is pretty cloudy (ie. Japanese allege this amount, Chinese allege way more) so that would probably be a reason why there's no concrete figure. -- Natalinasmpf 03:17, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Singapore's losses in WW2? 

message: After looking at recent new articles I begin to wonder--who and what are really encyclopedic?  Notwithstanding the fact many contributors here are too young to have consulted or even held an encyclopedia in their hands, does places like "Sengkang neighbourhood hub", Compassvale, Anchorvale, Fernvale, Rivervale (???); shopping malls (there must be hundreds around Singapore, close to a million in all the world); events like Mambo Jambo (just a spin on international variants of pub nite-outs); people like Guo Meimei (who have released just two singles of dubious merit), merit a mention in a respectable encyclopedia?  Are we mixing encyclopedia worth with news-worthiness?  Can we establish decisively what's worth adding on from Singapore, or is anything and everything from Singapore encyclopedic? Mandel 19:08, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what guidelines you have in mind, but if you wish all the above mentioned articles to be out, I believe it will be quite a hard sell. I respect your opinion, but to me, the above neighbourhood-related articles should keep their articles. So does Guo Meimei if she had release an album. Mambo Jambo should be merged into Zouk (club). Just my 2 cts, the current mechanism is still Afd where we basically just vote and don't have to spend too much time. --Vsion 00:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I know it's tough getting something deleted once they're there, but a back-to-basics question—is Wikipedia trying to be exhaustive or selective?  Should we, for example, include every single neighbourhoods in Singapore, and down to what size should we slice them into (eg. a 0.5 km by 0.5 km?), before they get, ehm, "unencyclopedic"?  Or do you guys think everything concerning neighbourhood towns, down to the last minnows, are encyclopedic?  If so I think equal treatments should be given to countries in China and US—which means, of course, hundreds of thousands more of such articles.  If you don't plan to be exhaustive, but to be selective, then it helps to state what criteria we have for inclusion. Mandel 02:24, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Your views arent new, nor is it perculiar to Singapore-related articles, hence the two major camps of "inclusionists" and "deletionists". I am personally leaning more to inclusionist, hence I too feel if Rivervale as a neighbourhood name is considered notable enough, than yes, it does deserve its article. We may not be able to say the same for, say, Ang Mo Kio Neighbourhood 1, so the existance of Rivervale dosent really mean we are going to start adding articles for every single neighbourhood in Singapore.--Huaiwei 05:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: During my school days, I have always been frustrated in my hunt for coherent and complete articles in order for me to grasp a full picture of the topics and subjects for my research. To add salt to the wound, many articles aren't neutral at all. To me, an encyclopedia has to be as exhaustive as possible to achieve being "encyclopedic". Hence, I am pro-inclusionist. But, at my age, it's always good to know that I am still being considered young! =D Sengkang 07:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What I'm saying isn't a mere repeat of inclusionist or exclusionist views. Inclusionists include everything, that to me is silly. We need to pin down exactly what we intend to include or exclude. For instance, why is Rivervale considered "notable" enough while Ang Mo Kio Neighbourhood 1 is not? Because Rivervale has a nicer name?  Are we being fair?  Also, for certain topics an encyclopedia can never be exhaustive—we can't obviously include every human being on earth, so we must be selective.  Yes, for certain subjects: eg. list of universities, species of plants and animals on earth etc, Wikipedia is exhaustive. But every building? Every neighbourhood? So far no one's answering the million-dollar question—what selection criteria? To me one has to be selective when the list becomes far too big, and being pro-inclusionist is akin to wearing a hair that isn't cut for years, huge, untidy, overblown. Mandel 13:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again, we are NOT going to make every single article for each neighbourhood eg. Chip Bee Gardens. Then this will be unencyclopedic. Rivervale is a prominent neighbourhood in Sengkang. But who knows of Ang Mo Kio Neighbourhood 1? So its a no. From the comments you made, I've seen that you have been opposing to things like the PJ Thum's article, shopping malls saying they are unencyclopedic etc. Adding info is better than removing info. Right? Terenceong1992 15:20, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You contradict yourself.  I was asking for the very reason why Rivervale is considered more "prominent" or more "notable" than Ang Mo Kio Neighbourhood 1.  I don't know Rivervale, but I do know AMK Neighbourhood 1...so does that make AMK Neighbourhood 1 more notable than Rivervale?  If Rivervale is considered notable, then why is Chip Bee Gardens not? No encyclopedia on earth includes shopping mall, I'm asking for the rationale behind these are being considered encyclopedic. Mandel 16:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

text: According to Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Precedents, malls are generally considered not encyclopedic and are usually ok'ed for deletion. Mandel 16:41, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I get what you mean. But things like Mall of America exists. --Terenceong1992 16:49, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Mall of America was the largest shopping mall at one time in the US, and at any rate it has ceased to be just a shopping mall, and has become a tourist attraction as well.  When a shopping mall has enough history, size or prestige on its side to attract foreign visitors, I think it's a good enough point for inclusion.  That's why they say "malls are generally not notable". Mandel 17:11, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

text: So what do you fellas think?  Are malls encyclopedic?  Are neighbourhood clusters as small as 1 km by 1 km encyclopedic? Mandel 21:18, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes they are encyclopaedic. They deserve a space here. You see small neighbourhoods from other countries on Wikipedia. Most of us think that way. I would rather include them. --Terenceong1992 04:41, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "Small neighbourhoods from other countries".  Can you give me an example? I'd like to know how small is small. Mandel 07:11, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: What is really encyclopedic?

message: We should have a COTW every week. Any comments?--Terenceong1992 16:55, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Either COTW or COTF is fine. — Kimchi.sg | Talk 13:53, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Then it should commence it asap. Maybe today. Terenceong1992 07:49, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The page is up, start nominating and voting. link. --Terence Ong |Talk 16:15, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm surprised no one's going to vote or edit the page. It seems like everyone doesn't want a COTW. --Terence Ong |Talk 13:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  COTW 

message: Our good friends, Ah Beng and Ah Lian, are being earmarked for detention and deletion.  Do go to the respective pages and vote for or against their PR status in Wikipedia, failing of which they may be permanently deported. Mandel 02:49, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I was away but thank god they are saved. :D Thanks for the input you put in all these while.--Huaiwei 13:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We need to do something about these articles.  I'm going to the library, and I'll see what I can do with these articles. Mandel 03:23, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Ah Beng]] and [[Ah Lian]]

message: Since User:Instantnood has deemed it ethical to ask his pals to vote  just for the sake of it, then may I also draw all of you guy's attention to some Cantonese folk's insistance in claiming Cantonese ownership over a phrase as common as 恭喜发财. There is an on-going exercise to rename it back to Gong Xi Fa Cai, so feel free to go to Talk:Kung hei fat choi and comment.--Huaiwei 16:33, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not claiming Cantonese ownership over the phrase 恭喜發財, but the etymology of how the phrase "kung hei fat choi" entered and started to appear in English. I did not ask anybody to vote, nor instruct anybody how she/he should vote. It was a notification just in case they're not watching. Jerry, in particular, has actively been involved in editing this article. — Instantnood 16:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Private and Confidential. --Terence Ong |Talk 16:53, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In what way do I like everything in my own way? The phrase 恭喜發財/恭喜发财 may now be more commonly spoken by people who speak Mandarin (Putonghua) than those who speak Cantonese or other south Chinese spoken variants. Nevertheless this does not change the fact that the phrase itself was orginated from southern China, and has entered English as "kung hei fat choi" through its Cantonese pronunciation. "Kung hei fat choi" is frequently used in English synonymously as "Happy New Year" or "Good Luck", that we should cover this English usage in the article. The Chinese equivalence is never used as such by native speakers of any Chinese spoken variant. — Instantnood 17:28, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In other words, Kung hei fat choi does NOT = to 恭喜发财, since you are purely supporting its existance by claiming it is an English phrase? "Kung hei fat choi" is frequently used indeed, but does that mean "Gong xi fa cai" is not frequently used too? And what is "The Chinese equivalence is never used as such by native speakers of any Chinese spoken variant" supposed to mean?--Huaiwei 17:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Instantnood for what I've wrote. I am trying to be neutral here. If I had offended you, I was making a wrong comment, but I think I've shouldn't had said it. Accept my apologies.  :( --Terence Ong |Talk 17:43, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm neutral and I mean it. --Terence Ong |Talk 17:44, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries. :-D — Instantnood 17:52, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not taking sides, all I say is from my POV. :) --Terence Ong |Talk 17:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

text: (response to Huaiwei's comment at 17:36, December 11, 2005) Synonymously as "happy new year" or "good luck". — Instantnood 17:52, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: So? Gong xi fa cai dosent = "happy new year" or "good luck"?--Huaiwei 18:00, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It does means the same thing, but one is in Putonghua and another in Cantonese. I prefer it to be Gong Xi Fa Cai than Kung Hei Fat Choi. Singaporeans, Malaysians and Mainland Chinese citizens use Gong Xi Fa Cai more often than Kung Hei Fat Choi. However, not in London, where Kung hei fat choi is used. --Terence Ong |Talk 18:10, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Plus the boisterous crowd in Taiwan. Just because a bunch of Cantonese-craving folks in London who are still feeling nolstalgic over the 1997 handover dosent mean Gong Xi Fa Cai has no place in the English dictionary, if not more so.--Huaiwei 18:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Several questions: (1) Is the phrase used in London only by Chinese people? (2) Are all these Chinese people Cantonese speakers? (3) Are all Cantonese speakers in London Hongkongers? (4) Do all the Hongkongers in London feeling nostalgic over the transfer of sovereignty? — Instantnood 20:08, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Instantnood, can you give a verifiable proof that the term originated in Cantonese?  I believed it originated in South China as well, but people in Taiwan and elsewhere have been using it for decades at least.  Seems to me to suggest it may have a Middle Chinese provenance, and not restricted to Cantonese. Mandel 21:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I dont think I need to answer any of those questions, because I am applying instantnootism, and somehow he realises it dosent make sense on his own accord. You claim that Kung Hei Fat Choi had entered the English dictionary since it was used by the BBC. So how does that demonstrate that all Chinese people in London use it? That all Chinese in London are Cantonese speakers? And HKers? What does this has anything to do with HKers other than their notorious tendency in thinking Cantonese somehow has greater relevance to English than all other Chinese dialects?--Huaiwei 12:29, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I will stay out of this for the time being, but will join in if the discussion heats up. --Terence Ong |Talk 07:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Kung hei fat choi]]??

message: Really,an IRC channel seems ok for us SGPedians here,but we must see who is able to use it...do vote under here...hope to get a channel soon...open one...
09:05, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  IRC Channel 

message: Support
*tdxiang says he wants one!
Oppose
Comment
*Neutral, lah. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E|Chugoku Banzai! 02:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Votes

message: Hey, since Malaysian and Singaporean history are entwined, especially whenever it concerns events that occured prior to 1965, it would be fantastic if we could work together. __earth 08:13, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malaysian and Singaporean history 

message: Hi all, for those who haven't notice that the Mass Rapid Transit (Singapore) article has been nominated for FA. You may like to drop by and vote at the link above. Thanks. Every vote counts. --Terence Ong |Talk 18:34, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mass Rapid Transit (Singapore)|MRT FAC]] 

message: That locator map shown on Downtown Core is really for the Central Area....and there's no locator map for Central Area. I guess we need to rename that image, and replace the Downtown Core map. 
Oh, can we have an enlarged map of the Central Area, with distinguishing Downtown Core, Singapore River planning areas, etc.? We can get the information from the link provided on the noticeboard at the bottom then transpose it onto a GFDL map.
We should also gauge some consensus on how we should organise articles in terms of planning area vs geography, ie. Orchard Road and Orchard planning area might need to be split. Perhaps we should rename it to, Orchard, Singapore? This reminds me of Singapore River and the Singapore River Planning Area, although we don't have a lengthy article at the time, so no need to split yet, since not so much of an identity crisis (river + watershed more reasonable than road+planning area).  -- Natalinasmpf 22:41, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Orchard Road and Orchard planning area should not be split up, and that is same for Singapore River. I will try to do it. --Terence Ong |Talk 11:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Perhaps we should move Orchard Road to Orchard, Singapore, since it would also resolve the problem of having an article about a single road, and we can discuss the road in length in that article. Of course there are single roads are notable, but I meant it would help resolve un-needed planning area forks while maintaining context. -- Natalinasmpf 11:57, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Downtown Core locator map 

message: I wrote Gurkha Contingent quite some time back, and I wonder if it will ever rich FA status with some additional work on it? Is it too short to qualify? The referencing thing needs to be added in as the main problems with it, of coz, but I just wanna get a general sentiment over its chances, and if the rest of you may help to get it through?--Huaiwei 12:57, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think its too short to qualify :(. How about trying good article instead. --Terence Ong |Talk 13:16, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember the article was getting very good responses after it was posted in the main page at DYK,  it is certainly an interesting article and I believe worth trying.  --Vsion 19:00, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

text: * It's good, but you need references. Once that's done, it should make it through FAC. - Mailer Diablo 13:02, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *You feel it is good enough for FAC after referencing is done? I do fear it may be too short as Terence pointed out. What do you think based on your experience here?--Huaiwei 13:09, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

text: *BTW I just realised the article has about 3,300 words....compared to MRT's 3,500 words. I didnt even realise it was actually that long!--Huaiwei 17:12, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *Start findin' references! :D - Mailer Diablo 21:25, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Feature article?

message: I have just created a todo list for the Light Rapid Transit (Singapore) article, with a new discussion. You may like to take a look at it. This article really needs serious rework, and an urgent cleanup. We can't have an article like this for one (Mass Rapid Transit (Singapore) currently under FAC and another of poor standards. --Terence Ong |Talk 08:33, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Light Rapid Transit (Singapore)]] 

message: Meetup in June 2006 anyone? I know is a long time ahead from now though. We can have it at somewhere like a cafe or a library. --Terence Ong Talk 16:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually isnt just a weekend anytime of the year will do? Dont tell me students can only meetup for a few hours during the long holidays! :D (also see above section)--Huaiwei 17:08, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I can. Anytime will do. I don't know about our other school going friends here. I don't have exams in May since I come from an "international school". However, I have tests. Most of us have tests frequently. --Terence Ong Talk 17:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Exams and tests are past my time (for life I hope. :D). If you guys are able, just drop a line below here to indicate your intention to meet, and perhaps we can then collectively work out a schedule. And dont worry so much about "what we gonna do". I have had past meetups with online communities too, and all we simply planned for was "lets have a cuppa!". And it worked, for ppl just naturally want to know more about each other after their common adverntures in one site. Wikipedia is supposed to attract the inquisitive and the intellectuals (yeah right), so I dont think we will have an issue with that! :D--Huaiwei 18:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno where to have it. Should we have a logo? lol, my weird ideas. Haha. Uh...where you all want to have it? Starbucks? Burger King? McDonald's? McCafe? Coffee Bean? Coffee shop? Food court? Hawker Centre? :P --Terence Ong Talk 17:52, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I super anything one so long that it dosent turn ppl off in terms of pricing. :D Logo? Muahaha....why this Singaporean fetish for logos/banners/flyers for every get-to-gether event? lol! A casual dinner out I had with folks from another forum produced a full promotional flyer with a design sure to give the pros a run for their money! :D--Huaiwei 04:36, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  June 2006 Meetup? 

message: May I advise SGpedians', new users especially to consolidate and improve existing articles (that aren't on the todo list), rather than creating new ones (except for stuff like North-East Region and stuff about urban planning regions, which we need), which we need to complete. We need to concentrate on formality at the moment. Have you seen Bugis Street, or the faculty pages at NUS? It's tearing my hair out. Unfortunately, I found no better way to say this, so I'll have to be frank. Ie. we should focus on regions, not streets until we have covered everything else. Oh, Homosexuality in Singapore and Singapore gay equality movement should be candidates for our next COTW, because, well, lets have our goal to make it a good, neutral article. IMO, the current state of some of our articles is apalling! -- Natalinasmpf 04:44, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree somewhat, as we seem to be spreading ourselves too thin. At the same time thou, I happen to be temporarily holding on to resources on transportation in Singapor, which includes information on specific roads here, hence my rush to create a few of them before I have to return the books! :D--Huaiwei 04:58, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ah of course, no problem then. ;-) One other problem is that we seem to be too patronising in the articles, so NPOV should be maintained. This is especially seen in NUS Faculty of Law, but in some of the location articles the anons have the tendency to include "popular place" or "extensive services" when this qualifier really should be toned down. Ie. numbers are better - visitor numbers for tourist sites, number of scholars attending etc, number of residents for residential areas rather than relative qualifiers, which is what we seem to suffer from. For example, I provided population numbers at West Region, Singapore and North Region, Singapore. These facts are easy to obtain from a lot of websites and census reports (in fact I forgot to cite a source for population of some regions which I will do promptly after I rediscover it), prices, etc, or even estimates of populations, which is certainly better than relative qualifiers, which are subtly POV. We should make this more clear to new users, who seem at times too patronising of our articles. ;-) To judge the success of a government program, it can be generally said of the affects in a "before and after comparison", or maybe a budget or two. Easily googled, for a lot of these. -- Natalinasmpf 05:12, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Those articles on NUS faculties are of course in need of alot of work. Somehow I dont feel a lot of anxiety in improving on them even thou that was my alma mata. Maybe I just want to entend the euphoria of freeing myself from their clunches for a longer time yet? :D But trust me...if no one deals with them anytime soon, I will probably be inclined to do so myself...sadly...--Huaiwei 06:21, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

text:  Clarifying: I'm sure there's a government census around but this will do for now for populations for each urban planning area: http://www.geohive.com/cd/link.php?xml=sg&xsl=xs1 - looks like a good source for WikiProject Singapore places as well as our articles on places in general. I will post this on the board. Participants of the WikiProject might like to update. Some areas are omitted for population but we can make up for this with estimates and discernment considering that total population is calculated. Any print material is great too! Keep up the research, Huaiwei! (I'm guessing that's how you are so knowledgable over place names' histories. )-- Natalinasmpf 05:20, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hah you see me too up. :D Those population figures in the source you provided are from the latest government population census conducted in 2000, and there are extensive figures down to the last neighbourhood. Thus, getting statistics isnt a major problem...trying to expand on historical content seems to be the biggest headache. Even the libraries here dont exactly provide extensive information on this unless one sieves deeply through tonnes of volumes or pick up the next propagandic publication by political wards...haha.--Huaiwei 06:21, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hmm yes, but seeing as its so easy to get them, we should have no problem including them. Numbers add substance to our articles. ;-) -- Natalinasmpf 13:15, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Yeah, we really need lots of cleanup in many of this articles including Demographics of Singapore. --Terence Ong Talk 06:57, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  consolidation of articles 

message: Should we have one main notice board and then like regions, North, East, West, Central/Southern and Overseas SGpedians' notice board? Like what Hong Kong Wikipedians have, they are going to have divisions like HK Island, Kowloon and NT Wikipedians notice board. My ideas are becoming lamer each day. :P --Terence Ong Talk 07:56, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That will be quite redundant won't it? But I like the idea, its fleasible and I say it won't harm a try. Slivester 18:17, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sub divisions?? 

message: ATTENTION
I have bad news for all of my fellow SGpedians, Mailer Diablo has went on an indefinite wikibreak due to a "vote" at his user page for him to leave. --Terence Ong Talk 04:11, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What a shocker! He will be greatly missed.  :( Slivester 09:00, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Isnt this the second time I recall whereby he went on an indefinite wikibreak? Something tells me he may come back, but I do hope my optimism will be proven correct! All the best in your examination year, Mailer, and yes, you will do so well that you will miss us! ;)--Huaiwei 09:59, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loss of a Great SGpedian 

message: User:Darrentzw has been making a lot of new articles about Chinese dramas on Channel 8 (past and present). He has also made new articles on Xiang Yun, Huang Biren and many more. You may like to look at this category. I appericiate his work of creating, but it needs lots of cleanup. Help to cleanup all this articles, as they are of poor standards. Write plot sypnopsis for the articles. Thank you. --Terence Ong Talk 08:45, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quality of Singapore TV related articles 

message: After some time, our to-do box seems to be getting longer and more cluttered and difficult to maintain. I was looking at other noticeboards, and I found the Australian one particularly pleasing to the eye. What do you guys think about adopting that format over this one, and to beef up on our complete to do list?--Huaiwei 14:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The overhaul is completed. Do comment and improve! ;)--Huaiwei 08:04, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A much better format giving an instant view of all the articles without scrolling up and down. Would it be possible to sub-categorise the articles into various subject headings as in the boxes of the old version? --Sengkang 08:25, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Its possible, but I tried not to do that for it lengthens the list and does make it more cumbersome to maintain, unless there are willing parties to do so? :D--Huaiwei 08:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I see your point. Guess the current one should be ok. =D --Sengkang 08:43, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh see how it goes lah. Things tend to go out of fashion ofter some time, and we might end up changing it to another format again later! :D--Huaiwei 08:50, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Update on to-do box

message: I am proposing that our SGCOTW be changed into a fortnightly or monthly effot here. Seeking your comments!--Huaiwei 14:37, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: COTW, COTF or COTM?