Talk:Zazen

message: Well, that's not how it's always done...
: Could you perhaps expand on that extremely terse comment?  *8)
:: I think what he means is that the article on Zazen does not describe every variation of the practice.  I noticed the same thing.  Every sangha does some things differently, but I feel the article gives a 'good enough' '35,000 feet' view of the practice. Marteau 21:38, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I would be surprised to learn that experienced Soto practitioners would refer to their technique as "gradual".  It sounds like a misunderstanding to me.  Looked at in another way, the immediate practice of shikantaza is more "sudden" than the formal contemplation of koans used as a tool in Rinzai.  In my understanding, Soto Zen is no less a "sudden" school, as described in the Platform Sutra, than Rinzai: the "gradual" school which the Sixth Patriarch condemned was something else entirely.  I suspect that, being a practice reviled by Zen's Sixth Patriarch, referring to any form of Zen as "gradual" could be considered by some to be an insult.Beginnermind 17:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sudden vs. Gradual 

message: Peter Harvey's Introduction to Buddhism has an excellent introduction to Zen meditation starting on page 270. Mitsube (talk) 06:04, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harvey 

message: I'm going to start with reorganizing the current content in the first section to remove or tone down the commentary and get to a more encyclopedic format.  Chris vLS (talk) 19:45, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  This needs work 

message: I think it reads more fluidly, and more like an encyclopedia article now.  Here are next things to do:
* References!!!
* More on the significance section
* Need to grapple with the fact that many practioners would say that zazen is not done to "gain" anything, especially not enlightenment . . . this contradicts the lead paragraph
* The stages of zazen is not universally held or practiced. Some Soto schools (and Dogen) focus solely on shinkintaza, the article currently sounds like the stages approach is universal
That's all for now.  Thoughts?  Chris vLS (talk) 20:29, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The recent edits have been major improvements. The biggest issue that I have had with the article is that it has relied so heavily on an extremely narrow view of the subject. That is, Zen sitting meditation as practiced in Japanese Zen Buddhism, and interpreted by western culture. A good first step would be to remove the Japanese terms, or to move them into their own section. If the material is to be in a general section of the article, i.e. representative of the broader Zen tradition, then it should be applicable to Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese Zen as well. Since these three traditions have much in common, some good sources to cross-reference would be those of Hsuan Hua, Nan Huai-Chin, Shengyen, etc. At least by comparing Japanese and Chinese sources, the intersection of Japanese and Chinese sources would give a fairly good view of what is generally applicable. If it will be difficult to find such general material, then it may be useful to split up the page with a general introduction, and sections for each of the traditions. This is just my own view on the subject, of course. Tengu800 23:08, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad you thought they were improvements!  Have to laugh about your suggestion, since all of my knowledge of zazen actually comes from Western interpretations of Japanese Zen Buddhism practice, so I might not be the best to add other perspectives! Most of what I did was simply editing for article style.  I was surprised to find that I couldn't find much in terms of online sources. Also, I'm really not sure how to reconcile basic straightforward writing with the less straightforward teachings.  Many practioners would disagree with the lead sentence that zazen is done to achieve enlightenment . . . and they would add that if you want to be liberated you should sit zazen . . . Cheers -- thanks for the feedback -- Chris vLS (talk)  00:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Well, I think that's better -- and a to do list 

message: Substituted at 11:14, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion