Talk:John W. Campbell

message: Is it absolutely established that he got a degree from either place?  I've always thought that he implied to people that he had, but that in actuality he hadn't.  I could easily be wrong about this, however. Hayford Peirce 20:49, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know; I was simply relying on Nicholls.  Tuck just says he attended MIT, doesn't mention Duke, and says nothing about him graduating.Mike Christie 21:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: graduation

message: I've tried to get it to do so, but can't.... Hayford Peirce 20:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, now it has.  Maybe it doens't show up in "Show preview" Hayford Peirce 20:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Why doesn't this page generate a Contents box?

message: Hayford, I noticed you changed "sf" to "science-fiction" in the first paragraph.  Can I ask why?  I think it's nice to be able to abbreviate, if the abbreviation is well understood, once the word has been mentioned. Mike Christie 21:29, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Primarily because I think "sf" is one of those useful abbreviations that can come in a number of forms.  Is it "sf", or "s.f.", or "SF", or "S.F."?  I've seen all of them used.  If there's a Wiki diktat that "sf" is the standard use, then fine.  Obviously, my point of view is tremendously nit-picky.  Probably like those members of the sf community who take tremendous umbrage if someone refers to sf as "sci-fi" -- i dunno why, but this really upsets some sfians.... (Also, I'm one of those tiresome guys who believes that "science-fiction writer" or "science-fiction fan" must always have a hyphen to be grammatically correct.... Ie, "John Campbell was a science-fiction editor who edited science fiction." ) Hayford Peirce 21:57, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no diktat that I'm aware of.  I'll leave it as you have it; I think I'd prefer 'sf', but it's personal taste.  Mike Christie 22:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I gotta say that I don't feel very strongly about it.  But, for instance, I just went to the Isaac Asimov magazine website.  Throughout the page they refer to SF, in caps.  It's useless to Google this for numbers, since to Google sf, SF, and S.F., and s.f. are all identical.  I wish there was a clear concensus on this.... Hayford Peirce 22:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Science-fiction vs. sf

message: Alfred Bester only met Campbell once; he tells the story in his essay My Affair with Science Fiction, in Hell's Cartographers, edited by Harry Harrison and Brian Aldiss (1975, Weidenfeld and Nicolson; my edition is a 1976 Futura reprint).  The story is not at all complimentary to Campbell, but it does give a vivid picture of Campbell in the grip of Dianetics.  Here's some text I had considered adding: "Bester tells a comic story of his only meeting with Campbell, in early 1950.  Campbell insisted that Bester remove all references to Freud from his story "Oddy and Id", on the grounds that Hubbard had made Freud obsolete.  He also took Bester to a noisy publishing lunch room, and over sandwiches insisted that Bester try to remember his experience in his mother's womb; Bester, about to laugh uncontrollably, dodged Campbell's insistence via a subterfuge.  Bester had had tremendous respect for Campbell, having previously imagined him as "a combination of Bertrand Russell and Ernest Rutherford", but he left having reinforced his opinion that "a majority of the science fiction crowd, despite their brilliance, were missing their marbles".  I haven't added this text because it doesn't feel NPOV; it's not balanced -- it's really just an anecdote.  But personally this story is one of my touchstones over the last thirty years in my mental characterization of Campbell.  And it is a real source.  Is there a way to phrase this material to be appropriate and useful?  Mike Christie 02:20, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just put it in as it is: I remember reading the same thing.  And there are lots of other anecdotes about Campbell that can be cited.  The guy was obviously a genius -- but also a crackpot.  How can one argue with Bester as a source? (Incidentally, I met Bester once -- in Ben Bova's Analog office the day before Nixon resigned.  A nice guy.) The only critique I would have with your insert is "publishing lunch room" -- that doesn't sound quite right to me. Hayford Peirce 03:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Note on Bester's meeting with Campbell 

message: The Seekers of Tomorrow reference, if I understand it correctly, is a profile of Campbell that originally appeared in the August 1963 Amazing.  I'd like to change those refs to point at the Amazing, and then add the Moskowitz article to the bibliography section with a note about the reprint in Seekers of Tomorrow.  Any objections to doing it that way?  Meanwhile I'll source a couple of other things from the Amazing version, since I don't have Seekers of Tomorrow. Mike Christie 17:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections at all. The more info the better.  On the other hand, the only source most people will ever be able to find is the book itself.  As long as that's shown there's no problem. (Well, I suppose I ought to put in the date and publisher of the book while I'm at it.  Will do so.) Hayford Peirce 17:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good; then when I do the re-reffing I'll move that info down to the biblio section. Mike Christie 17:27, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I created a Sources, like a number of other articles have, as distinct from References, which I understand serves for footnote info, and put the three books into Sources. Hayford Peirce 17:50, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moskowitz references 

message: At what I guess is the Russian Wiki there's a Kelly portrait that I've seen before. 
:ru:%D0%98%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5:CampbellJohnWoodJr.jpg
Any chance, do you think, of getting it legally into this article? Hayford Peirce 01:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hard to see how; would be nice though -- that's a famous picture. Mike Christie 19:23, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kelly Freas portrait of Campbell

message: Out of curiosity I took a look at the 1920 and 1930 census records, and found Campbell in both.  In 1920 he is living at 27 Madison Ave, in South Orange Township, Essex county, NJ.  The family is
*John Campbell, head of household, home owner (mortgage), male, white, 38, married, able to read and write, b. OH, father b. VT, mother born MA, speaks English, Elect. Eng. at Amer. Tel. Co., on salary.
*Dorothy Campbell, wife, female, white, 31, married, able to read and write, b. OH, father b. IL, mother b. OH, speaks English, not employed
*John W. Campbell Jr., son, male, white, 9, single, attended school in last year, b. NJ
*Laura Campbell, daughter, female, white, 1, single, b. NJ
In 1930, his parents have divorced or (more likely) his father died, as his mother has now remarried.  The household appears to be at 433 Lincoln Ave., again in Orange, Essex, NJ; there are several families listed at this address and all indicate they are renters so it may be a rooming house of some kind.  The household is now:
*James A. Middleton, head, renting, rent $60/mo, does not own a radio, male, white 43, married, aged 41 at first marriage, not on a farm, can read and write, b. England, both parents b. England, spoke English before coming to US, immigrated 1921, naturalized, merchant of Elect. Appliances [I think], employed, not a veteran
*Dorothy Middleton, wife, female, white, 43, married, aged 21 at first marriage
*John W. Campbell, stepson, male, white, 19, single
*Laura P. Cambpell, stepdaughter, female, white, 12, single
I don't think this is technically original research since these sources are verifiable independently.  It's too boring to add in wholesale, though; I'll pull some info out and add it later. Mike Christie 19:23, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Census information 

message: For these reasons:
* Please shorted the Bibliography section. Not all the publications of the author are needed, only the major ones.
* who dominated most of his meetings with writers, is a bit POV and not referenced.
My two cents: Many authors mentions this, also mentiond in talks with authors.
He was said to be able to take any position as long as he got reasoned opposition. Seniorsag 16:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the review.  Any reason not to move the bibliography into a subsection and leave a summary in place?  Book collectors do like this sort of information; is it inherently unencyclopaedic? Mike Christie 17:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In a number of other articles (H.P. Lovecraft, for example), long bibliographies have been moved to their own articles. -Harmil 21:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I fixed one of the "citation needed" tags; I can't find a source that explicitly says September 1937 was when Campbell was hired, so I'm changing it to late 1937, which is certainly supported. Mike Christie 21:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems you've fixed the above and I'd make it GA, pending one thing...you have him in the SciFi Hall of Fame, but this isn't in the article???? I'd think that's a big deal, to be a member. Rlevse 02:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a note to the end of the editorship para about it.  I agree it should be mentioned; it's actually not that big a deal in my mind -- the Hall of Fame is nice publicity but not one of the main items of recognition within the field.  Anyway, it's done.  Mike Christie 03:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never even heard of the SF Hall of Fame! Hayford Peirce 16:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA

message: Here are a few statements I've removed that I'd put back if I could find sources.  Can anybody oblige?
:Isaac Asimov once asked Campbell why he had stopped writing fiction after he became the editor of Astounding. Campbell explained, "Isaac, when I write, I write only my own stories. As editor, I write the stories that a hundred people write."  It was once said that Robert A. Heinlein, Campbell's most notable discovery, was merely "the pen in Campbell's hand."  Not surprisingly, Heinlein himself strongly disagreed.
:Like many of his other interests, however, this waned with time and he is generally not believed to have ever been a member of the Church of Scientology.
:Campbell was far from universally popular, even before he began exploring Dianetics and other scientifically dubious ideas.  He believed in the American model of society as understood in the 1940's and 1950's and was opposed, not only to Communism, but to what he called "hyperdemocracy", the notion that equality was enforceable by law and custom, and that the more able members of society had to be hobbled so the less able could compete with them. Isaac Asimov has said that, while he knew Campbell regarded other cultures as inferior, including the Jewish background he himself came from, this was not something that affected their working relationship.  Authors Randall Garrett and Robert Silverberg tailored a series of stories to Campbell's views, culminating in a novel, The Dawning Light, which Campbell serialized.
:Campbell was a tall, charismatic, physically impressive man who dominated most of his meetings with writers.  A life-long smoker, he died of cancer at age 61.  He had written at least one editorial in Astounding defending smoking and positing that nicotine, as absorbed through smoking, had beneficial effects that outweighted the negative.  Among the positive effects, he speculated, was stimulation of the brain cells and greater intellectual awareness and clarity.
- Mike Christie 21:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We all know he was tall -- do we have to document that Wilt Chamberlain was tall also?  It's common knowledge he died of cancer. There must be dozens of sources saying he was charismatic (although the word wasn't used in the '40s) and dominating.  I myself read the smoking editorial years ago, perhaps more than one of them.  I wonder how far documentation has to be carried.  Lyndon Johnson was tall, charismatic, physically impressive, and dominated meetings.  All that was obvious at the time.  Does each word have to have a specific source? Hayford Peirce 22:24, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I didn't know he was tall, and I'm a bit surprised to hear it -- for some reason I've always visualized him as short.  You're right, though; we don't have to source every word.  I think your additions from Asimov just now are exactly what was needed. Mike Christie 00:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What about the cigarette editorials?  I read at least one: I know he wrote what you cut out.... Hayford Peirce 00:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I have all the Campbell ASFs -- if you can guess the year, I'll scan them to see if I can spot it.  Mike Christie 01:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Geez, I wish I could pin it down more than saying it was in the 1960's, which covers a lot of ground.  Sometime in the early 60s, any time between October 1960 and June 1963, he wrote an editorial in which he argued that had the Civil War not occurred the slaves would have been freed by their masters in the very near future because increasing industrialization would have made them more valuable as hired workers than sullen fieldhands.  And that as a consequence the status of blacks (as of 196?) would be better than it actually was.  That's a typically provocative editorial that you might be able to track down. Hayford Peirce 16:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

text: 'Isaac Asimov once asked Campbell why he had stopped writing fiction after he became the editor of Astounding. Campbell explained, "Isaac, when I write, I write only my own stories. As editor, I write the stories that a hundred people write."'  
The quote is from Asimov's introduction to ASTOUNDING: John W. Campbell Memorial Anthology (1973)
—wwoods 20:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsupported statements 

message: The current version states that the fan issue was the March 1948 issue, but claims that Heinlein's "Gulf" appeared in the fan issue. Gulf was serialized in the November and December 
1949 issues. Shsilver 03:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought the dates were wrong and was about ready to go check them out but decided to have dinner first.  Now I've done the research and, of course, you're correct.  I've rewritten the article. Hayford Peirce 05:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was planning on checking them after dinner also, but things got away.  Thanks for confirming. Shsilver 18:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fan Issue 

message: :Image:WhoGoesThere.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 07:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:WhoGoesThere.jpg

message: During the 1940s (at least) Street & Smith published /Air Trails/ magazine, later /Air Trails Pictorial/.
In the July, 1943 and March, 1944 issues, the masthead lists Editor: William Winter.
In the October, 1947 and November, 1947 issues, the masthead lists Editor: John W Campbell, Jr.
I thought this significant in light of the biographical entry that his second wife was Margaret Winter.
Pygalge (talk) 03:50, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other editing 

message: I restored the infobox mention of infuencing Asimov. To be frank, this is a no-brainer. After all, Campbell wrote the three laws of robotics that are attributed to Asimov and form the core of his most popular works. The article already had a quote from Asimov talking about how huge an influence Campbell was on the genre, but I brought in a cited sentence from Isaac Asimov which focuses on Campbell's influence specifically on Asimov. I'm StillStanding (24/7) (talk) 20:54, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Asimov 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on John W. Campbell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20021224193414/http://flag.blackened.net/liberty/moorcock.html to http://flag.blackened.net/liberty/moorcock.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130521070009/http://www.midamericon.org/halloffame/ to http://www.midamericon.org/halloffame/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131020200117/http://www.catch22.com/SF/ARB/SFC/Campbell%2CJW.php3 to http://www.catch22.com/SF/ARB/SFC/Campbell%2CJW.php3
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:07, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on John W. Campbell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070908145615/http://contento.best.vwh.net/ to http://contento.best.vwh.net/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060719054350/http://www.locusmag.com/SFAwards/Db/NomLit22.html to http://www.locusmag.com/SFAwards/Db/NomLit22.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131020200117/http://www.catch22.com/SF/ARB/SFC/Campbell%2CJW.php3 to http://www.catch22.com/SF/ARB/SFC/Campbell%2CJW.php3
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:38, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on John W. Campbell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100326075452/http://www.catch22.com/SF/ARB/SFC/Campbell,JW.php3 to http://www.catch22.com/SF/ARB/SFC/Campbell,JW.php3
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:22, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I am thinking about separating the notes from the reference citations. Any thoughts, does anyone care?User-duck (talk) 22:01, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separating Notes from Footnotes/citations 

message: Isaac Asimov remarked several times that Campbell always insisted that humans as a species always had to have some slight advantage or something extra with respect to any aliens.  That's part of why Asimov started writing about an effectively human-only galaxy at that time (as in the Foundation series).  This should be mentioned in the article.
Also, Campbell must have published the Dianetics article in the May 1950 issue of Astounding despite knowing that Hubbard had said that "The real way to make money would be to start a religion" (something which Hubbard apparently said during several meetings of science-fiction writers near the end of the 1940s, and so which Campbell could hardly have avoided hearing of...) AnonMoos (talk) 17:28, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: According to this webpage, Lloyd Eshbach stated in his memoirs that Campbell was directly present on one occasion in 1948 or 1949 when Hubbard made a version of the remark.. AnonMoos (talk) 17:09, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Human chauvinism 

message: There are a couple of citation errors. I've tracked down the history of the missing one, when it was removed, and placing definition where it needs to be. Definition for "Latham2009" was removed in February 2020 but a call for it still exists in another location. There is also a parameter error for another citation. Will be placing the definition for "Latham2009" in the location it is invoked and will be correcting the parameter error. Let me know if there are any concerns. —Eewilson (talk) 05:22, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A couple of citation errors