Talk:Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima

message: The original uploader of the photo of Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima (18:25, 2 April 2005 . . Dbenbenn) had permission from Associated Press to post the photo and posted a fine image at 1380×1111 resolution. The photo has now been replaced with an image with a resolution of only 417×336. That may have been adequate for an 800x600 monitor; but on a 1920x1200 monitor it is too small to appreciate any detail. If Wikipedia is going to have any lasting value, there need to be higher resolution photos available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrJohn (talk • contribs) 04:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Where is the info that AP said the image could be 1380×1111 resolution? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esemono (talk • contribs) 09:41, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo Too Small 

message: From what I understand, the Camera Joe Rosenthal used to take the picture currently resides at the George Eastman House.  That might be something interesting to note, If it is in fact true, I would be willing to bet the GEH would be more than happy to supply a photograph of said camera.
70.101.92.136 06:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The camera used 

message: Stepping through the video of the flag raising, I notice a skipped sequence right about the point where the video most closely resembles Rosenthal's image, which has been replaced by earlier frames. The flagpole lurches at first, than repeats part of its motion over a half second or so. It's as if the very image that most resembles Rosenthal's has been edited out and then replaced with others to make the break in the sequence less noticeable. (There are also several frame duplications and skips throughout the sequence which I presume may have something to do with mapping frame rate differences between film and ogg format, but that's not what I am talking about.). Any known explanations?
Steipe 17:25, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about the video linked to from this site as I've never watched it, since I have all of Genaust's footage in original color, and like you have "stepped" through it frame-by-frame.  There is only one edit in the original film, and that is done "in camera."  Genaust first filmed the guys holding the pole, awaiting Schrier's command to raise it (and lower the other).  During this sequence Harold Schultz ambles over from off frame and is the last of the six to join the group.  After Schultz is in place, the film "jumps" (Genaust stopped filming, and moved to a slightly more "head on" position beside Rosenthal) and the next frame shows the guys starting to push the pole upward.  There is no edit in the original film as the flag is raised and the guys steady the pole.  Genaust was afraid of running out of film and stopped filming until the flag was really ready to be raised, plus he moved to a better filming angle.  Sir Rhosis 23:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing/replaced frames on video?

message: The claim that LST-758 supplied the flag for the second raising should be removed as the source Robert L. Resnick, "USCG Veteran Provided Stars and Stripes for U.S. Marines" has major dispcrencies in his story:
#While it is confirmed Rene Gagnon took the second flag to the top of the volcano.  It is never mentioned that he also dragged a, "21-foot galvanized steel steamfitter’s pipe.  It weighed more than 150 pounds, Resnick said.   Gagnon slung it over his left shoulder, tucked Resnick’s flag under his right arm, and headed up the volcano as Resnick stood on the deck watching history unfold." 
#Resnick claims that it only took 20min to get from his ship, LST-758, to the top of the volcano, "Renee Gagnon struggled mightily but the sand at the base of the volcano was too soft and Gagnon barely made any headway,” notes Resnick.  “Then he dropped the pole and pulled it by its nose.  Evidently, he called up to the summit and two other Marines shouldered the pipe and Gagnon carried the flag the rest of the way up."
#As shown by almost all sources only the soldiers doing the actual flag raising noticing the second raising yet Resnick claims that everyone cheered, "As LST-758 began leaving the beach in reverse, Resnick heard, “a tremendous and sudden ovation from every man on the beach.”  “There was a whooping and hollering — a tremendous cheer as the flag went up,” said Resnick.  “Every ship tooted its horn,” he said.  “The memory is very clear and compounded by great sentiment and great apprehension as I recall the sites of death,” said Resnick.  The great cheer that everyone talks about was when the FIRST raising took place which didn't involve Gagnon or Ira who weren't on top of Suburachi at the time.
:Maybe a marine got a flag from Resnick on ship LST-758 but it wasn't Rene or Ira who carried it up and it wasn't the second flag that Joe Rosenthal captured in his famous picture.  It wasn't the first flag either as according to lieutenant Greeley Wells the first the 54-by-28 inch (137-by-71 cm) American flag was from their transport ship, the USS Missoula (APA-211).
:All references to the flag being from LST-758 should be removed from the article and only refernces from Marine history should be used.  -- RabitsVinge 07:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The US Coast guard historian's office counts it as part of their official history, so it merits a mention in this article. Raul654 12:20, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if that account is wrong? -- RabitsVinge 22:34, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: LST-758 or LST-779

message: Is there any information regarding the children of the flag raisers? I've done some searching but have been unable to turn up any results Geogo3r (talk) 23:10, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The three who died on Iwo Jima had no children. I don't believe Ira Hayes had any either. Rene Gagnon had at least one son (Rene Gagnon Jr.). . John Bradley had 8 children. One of them is James Bradley, who wrote the book "Flags of Our Fathers". Raul654 (talk) 23:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the quick response Raul! Geogo3r (talk) 23:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for information or link to information 

message: I have a copy of a photograph of an American flag raised on Iwo Jima early on the morning of D-day, February 19th, 1945. Could it be a photograph of the first American flag raised on Japanese soil. (JCH1952 (talk) 03:52, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You should post it on this site or if you want you can email it to me and I can do it for you! -- Esemono (talk) 07:20, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The first flag raised on Japanese soil during WW2? 

message: The paragraph on Rene Gangon's post-war experiences contains an inaccuracy about either his age at death or the length of his marriage.  The article states that he died "in 1979 at 54" and that he had a "47-year marriage", meaning he would have been 7 years old when married.  My guess is that his marriage duration is wrong, but I could not find a source stating how long he was married.Algaedna (talk) 18:50, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something is wrong with Rene Gagnon's bio 

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thread_title: File:USMC War Memorial Night.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title: File:Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima.png Nominated for Deletion

message: Would some literate person with an interest in this topic please fix this sentence?
::Anti-war activists in the 1960s altered the flag to bear a peace symbol, as well as several anti-establishment artworks.[52] 
:Amandajm (talk) 02:31, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Sentence structure

message: There are several issues here in regards to maintaining FA standards, for example: some refs are missing parameters, one is Angelfire, and there are 9 citation needed tags.???PumpkinSky talk 21:33, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not completely sure it's up to 2012 FA standards.  The prose ain't much to write home about.  This article needs a thorough, picky, going over.  It was probably in a better state on TFA day.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:23, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

text: So /2006/. I looked at this a while ago and was shocked. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 22:28, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: FA fixes

message: Alan Wood, who supplied the flag raised in the iconic photo, has died
http://news.yahoo.com/wwii-vet-provided-flag-iwo-jima-died-033413807.html  Irish Melkite (talk) 03:41, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alan Wood  

message: Two American Indians played big parts in both flag-raisings on Iwo Jima’s Mount Suribachi. Louis Charles Charlo, from the Bitterroot Salish Tribe of Montana, helped with the first flag. Ira Hayes, a Pima from Arizona, is in the famous photograph taken later that same day of another flag being raised. Why Ira Hayes is an internationally known hero and Louis Charlo has been lost to history
Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/11/07/american-indian-marine-was-part-iwo-jima-kept-out-spotlight-60406  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.183.119.36 (talk) 23:30, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The "Indian Country" reference (2011) above, which seems to be about getting a "Medal of Honor" for Charlo ("helped with the first flag"), leaves out Charlo was in F Company not E Company (lLt Schrier's patrol that went up Suribachi). So, there wouldn't be any photos of Charlo and the 1st flag on Suribachi. The confusion is over the 4-man, F Company scout patrol (Charlo) that made it up Suribachi, and the 40-man, E Company combat patrol with the flag carried by Lt. Schrier (flag-raiser) that made it up Mt Suribachi. Charlo was part of Iwo Jima (Mt. Suribachi) as the article says, but wasn't part of the first flag-raising. The reference also says that Hayes was ordered to leave his buddies in E Company and return to the States to be hero of Iwo Jima for a bond tour. Then the reference blames Haye's drinking ("heavy") problem over the pressures of him not wanting to be on the bond tour, when in fact Hayes was with his buddies (Strank, Block, and Sousley) from his rifle squad when they died on Iwo Jima, Hayes and E Company left Iwo Jima together on 3/26/45, and Hayes supposedly was proud to be in charge of the second flag raised on Mt. Suribachi that went with the three flag-raisers during the bond tour. Charlo's photo (recon patrol on Suribachi) was on an entire front cover of Yank Magazine in 1945. According to the reference Charlo, KIA, received a Bronze Star Medal that was upgraded to a Silver Star Medal in 2009 for trying to save a wounded Marine (both KIA). YahwehSaves (talk) 03:08, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems you and your tribe are competing with Ira Hayes (your tribe and his tribe?) over flags. Do you and your tribe know 1Lt Schrier received a Navy Cross citation which says, "he and Sgt Thomas, his platoon sergeant", raised the first flag? Others from E Company, Third Platoon, that personally helped secure the first flagstaff in the loose sand and wind, are the ones identified in SSgt. Lowery's 1st flag photos (no Charlo). The confusion is over F Company (Charlo, and any others) being up on Mt Suribachi while the first and second flag was being raised and or flown. Fact or truth is, F Company (Charlo), had nothing directly to do with the two pipes with attached flags being raised on Mt Suribachi by members of Company E (except for Jacobs, F Company radioman who was assigned to Company E). Charlo (and the other recon team members) wasn't assigned to Company E, and didn't "hoist" or help with the 1st flag as rumored. .Many Marines and corpsmen were up on Mt Suribachi doing their jobs and didn't get decorated with medals for doing their jobs as the two flags were raised and flew on Mt Suribachi, so why would Charlo get a medal because, "he was there"? Even the Army Pfc from Yank magazine was up on Mt. Suribachi while both flags were being flown. The Marine litter bearers and navy medical corpsmen getting killed out in the open while under fire aiding and or helping the wounded, or while carrying wounded Marines to cover on their backs standing up or crawling, usually get Bronze Stars and Silver Stars like Charlo, but not Medals of Honor, so why would Charlo get a Medal of Honor? Why isn't Charlo's Bronze Star Medal citation (and Silver Star citation) posted anywhere which probably says he was in F Company, not E Company, and shows exactly what he did?Sgt Watson who led the F Company 4-man recon patrol (Charlo) up and down Mt Suribachi may have received a commendation or medal for taking the patrol up, but not for just being there on Mt. Suribachi while the flags were raised and flew. Watson was Charlo's squad leader and where Watson was, Charlo was (in same F Company platoon), on Mt. Suribachi, and they wouldn't be with E Company members (3rd and 2nd platoons) who raised the flags. Why would Lt Schrier need Charlo to raise or help with his flag(s)? Seems there were other recon patrols (and another Indians?) from D and F Company that were ordered up Mt Suribachi besides Watson's patrol. The Sgt. who led the D Company recon patrol up got a Silver Star. Do you and your tribe know that Schrier's radioman during the flag raising, Raymond Jacobs (Charlo wasn't the radioman), who knew Charlo (BAR man) personally in F Company, stated he didn't see Charlo on Mt. Suribachi, that Charlo wasn't a flag raiser, and that Charlo didn't help E Company raise (or secure) the flag on Mt. Suribachi.  YahwehSaves (talk) 22:21, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

text: The reference is a business site that incorrectly says Lindberg was "shot through the stomach" (would have died). In 2010, your Tribe site incorrectly made Charlo the "U.S. Marine Radioman with E Company" (instead of Jacobs who died in 2008) and incorrectly wrote on your Veterans Monument for Charlo that he was "Radioman" and "he was one of four Marines who participated in the first raising of the US flag atop Mount Suribachi".  YahwehSaves (talk) 21:12, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  American Indian Marine Was Part of Iwo Jima, But Kept Out of Spotlight 

message: There is a book used as a source here called "On the Origin of Spin: (Or how Hollywood, the Ad Men and the World Wide Web became the Fifth Estate and created our images of power)" Paperback – June 29, 2013. It seems to me this book has lifted multiple paragraphs from this wikipedia article. If so, it would be useless as an independent source. You can read the relevant section of the book here: https://books.google.com/books?id=7rNu06-I6IsC&pg=PA9#v=onepage&q&f=false
Here is a version of the wikipedia page from March 2013 (before the publication of the book), so you can see which one came first https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima&oldid=545010729   Kaltenmeyer (talk) 23:30, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent pick-up. Both citations in the article were secondary sources, and the book may have used the original quote without properly referencing it. The original is from an article written by Rosenthal himself in Colliers Magazine from 1955 (hence the mention that he said it 10 years after the date he took the photo). I deleted the 2 secondary sources and changed it to the archived reference I already used in the article. His quote is on page 3 of the Colliers article. Thanks for noticing this. NotaBene 鹰百利  Talk 22:26, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Book used as a source 

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