Talk:List of Jewish scientists

message: Shouldn't there be a section for the United Kingdom? 20.138.246.89 16:49, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why no British scientists? 

message: I noticed Albert Einstein was listed under Germans, but not under any of his other later nationalities. Are we doing this by country of birth or residence or what? Would it be appropriate to include those who emmigrated to other countries and gained citizenship there in both countries? Titanium Dragon 09:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why should this list categorise people solely by place of birth?  Hermann Bondi lived to 85; while he was born in Austria, he lived in Britain from the time he was 18, well over 3/4 of his life.  He was a Cambridge don (becoming master of a college) and a top British civil servant, and was knighted.  He was vastly more British than Austrian. --20.138.246.89 10:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So you're denying Bondi his Austrian identity and German-language purely because he spent most of his life in the UK? No, we should categorise people fairly. Since these are quick-reference lists, isn't it smart to put people who are most recognizably associated with that country and make it fair to them? Who are we to say Bondi would rather be seen as British than Austrian? 65.11.245.10 15:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That begs the question. Who are we to say Bondi would rather be seen as Austrian than British? And where do we draw the line? What of Claus Moser, who came to Britain when he was a child, or Leon Mestel, who came as a baby? Are they excluded?--20.138.246.89 15:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multinational Jews 

message: Lets think up the best British-born Jewish academics to put here.
In my opinion, great representatives for this county would be:
*James Joseph Sylvester
*Rosalind Franklin
*Brian David Josephson
*?
*?
*?
*?
*?
*?
*?
*?
Add more!
All were British-born, identified so, and are readily recognizable in association with that country. Meaning, anyone who happens to look up "British Jews" would likely think of people like Rosalind Franklin.
They would be at least as likely to think of Selig Brodetsky, President of B'nai B'rith Great Britain and President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, yet not born in Britain.--Brownlee 09:56, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, I see we both got usernames. Anyway, no, judging from Brodetsky's article, he doesn't look like the best entry. ...And Beyond! 17:21, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you saying that you're a sockpuppet?  I have been using this username for months, making hundreds of edits on a wide variety of subjects, and am not editing anonymously.--Brownlee 17:00, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Why not?  Because he was undoubtedly a vey distinguished British Jew, yet was not born here?--Newport 09:56, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly why. See details below for why it is the most fair and balanced way to proceed that way. ...And Beyond! 10:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Great Britain Quick Listers

message: There is a very simple objective test here.  If Sir Hermann Bondi had been regarded as Austrian while at the height of his career, the Royal Society would have made him a Foreign Member.  In fact, they made him a Fellow.  Also, if he were Austrian he wouldn't have been allowed to call himself "Sir Hermann".
Well, a lot of foreign-born people were knighted, and ones who spent a much longer time in their country of origin. Sir Ernst Boris Chain? Don't see your point. Does that automatically mean Chain is less of a German academic representative and more of a British one? I don't think I ever said that Bondi is more Austrian than British. He's on List of British Jews, isn't he? But why bother making him an entry on the quick-list? Just to prove a point that he's more British than Austrian? Look at the selection of US Jewish academics. It's exactly reflective of How Great Britain should be, considering both were massive immigrant hubs. I would be sorta for removing Oppenheimer, but whatever. You can't disagree that its the most neutral and fair method to simply not include foreign-borns on this list so that people don't start questioning national affliations. We've already developed that problem. Look at the user posting above. ...And Beyond! 17:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's very simple.  We abide by WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV.  There are plenty of reputable sourcs that say that Bondi was British.  The article on Bondi in the Encyclopaedia Britannica begins "British mathematician and cosmologist".  There is also this link: .  If anyone has an equally reputable source that he was not British, we can discuss the issue.  But to say that he was not British in the face of these sources, just because he was not born here, is original research.--Newport 10:00, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The above has a strong POV: that people are only representative of britain if they were born here. WP:NPOV and WP:V say that anyone described as British in a reliable source are British.--Brownlee 17:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sir Herman Bondi 

message: I can't understand how original research is disallowed when the question of someone not being Jewish is posed, but perfectly ok  when the question of someone being Jewish is posed. If it is going to be argued that we should still leave the question open of Ralph Benatzky being Jewish since sources exist that say he's Jewish (despite the other sources that even explain where this error originated), then equivalently we should do the same for the source that says Peierl's mother was Roman Catholic (even if there exist some INDIRECT reasonings for this being "potentially wrong"). Since there is no source on TALK:Rudolf Peierls that says his mother is Jewish, it is original research to derive otherwise. I really, really doubt anyone reading this would be unaware of WP:NOR. Personally, I would agree that the reliability of sources should come into play if someone presents a source that says Peierls mother is Jewish, and then the source saying his mother is Roman Catholic can be ignored. However, I doubt the same type of logic will be applied to the Ralph Benatzky article. 141.213.212.42 17:13, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rudolf Peierls

message: The reason that Peierls doesn't explain why he believes that his mother's sister probably died in a concentration camp or why her two daughters had to flee Germany, one ending up in Great Britain and the other in America, is that it is understood that he is talking about the typical fates of Jews in Nazi Germany. Here are the first few lines of the article on Rudolf Peierls in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.   The article was written by the late Prof. Richard Dalitz, FRS of Oxford, one of Peierls' former students:
"Peierls, Sir Rudolf Ernst (1907–1995), theoretical physicist, was born on 5 June 1907 in Oberschöneweide, a suburb in the south-east of Berlin, the youngest of the three children (Alfred (b. 1899); Annie (b. 1901); and Rudolf) of Heinrich Peierls (1867–1945), an electrical engineer from Breslau (Wrocław) and managing director of a cable factory of the Allgemeine Elektrizitäts-Gesellschaft (AEG), and his first wife, Elisabeth (Elli; 1878–1921) , daughter of Alfred Weigert (1848–1896) and his wife, Olga Hamburger, both of Breslau. Rudolf's parents were first cousins through the Weigert line. The Peierls families were assimilated Jews."  A second reference can be found in the November 1995 issue of Physics World magazine.  On page 63, Jack Paton, also of Oxford University, writes "Born into an assimilated Jewish family, Peierls originally wanted to become an engineer..."Jinfo 04:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's very simple - we have good sources that say that he was Jewish, and no sources that say explicitly that he wasn't.  Discussing what his mother may or may not have been violates WP:NOR.  Anyway, even if it were relevant, these sources say unambiguously that he was of Jewish descent, not mixed Jewish-Catholic. "Rudolf's parents were first cousins through the Weigert line. The Peierls families were assimilated Jews." Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. "Born in Berlin of Jewish descent": The Economist (London); Sep 30, 1995; p. 121.--217.46.192.195 12:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rudolf Peierls

message: Wow, I had no idea about the debate going on about him until I checked out his article. It seems that when there is that much wrangling over sources and background, one should not be included in categories and lists. Anyways, maybe this should continue on his talk page and if it can be resolved either way, this page can be adjusted accordingly. Thanks, --Tom 13:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just removed Heinrich Hertz since his father's father converted from Judaism to Lutheranism?? Again, is this a list of Jewish X or a listy of X's of Jewish descent? I would prefer to work this out on the individuals own article space and let that determine this list. Anyways --Tom 16:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So his father was born Jewish but converted. So that makes Hertz Jewish? ok, I am done editing here for now. --Tom 16:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[George Cantor]]

message: I've a feeling that there were rather few Jews involved in science in the 17th and 18th centuries, and the numbers expanded vastly some time in the 19th century.  Splitting the birth years of the listed scientists by decade and century should show this (or else show it's not true).
This could be done manually, but it ought to be possible for someone to write a software engine that would do it a lot faster.  Most of them have their year of birth as a category.  I've no idea how to do this, but someone must.--GwydionM (talk) 17:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about 'Jewish scientists by date of birth'?