Talk:DNA/Archive 10

message: [P0M:] Smarting a bit after 168's remarks that seemed to include me among "people who were not around during the discussions long ago [and] think they understand what is going on and they don't... [and should take it to heart that] Zen and pop psychology don't trump ignorance," I went back and read through the archives. I think it is clear that Lir has achieved a stunning victory against all others by playing "let's you and him fight," and I can understand why 168 does not like to be in the position of dealing with his victory. I don't think anybody else should be happy with that victory either. If anything has emerged from these discussions its seems to be a consensus regarding Lir's edits. That consensus should not, IMHO, argue in favor of any of the other candidate passages.  P0M 06:14, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: A comment from pom

message: [P0M:] For many actions one may take, the social context is vitally important. Changing any line in an article written by one of the Lords of the Universe is asking for an instant revert with a snotty "summary" message to the effect that sophomoric attempts by lesser beings are reprehensible. Some of my edits have met that response. On the other hand, editing a line written by an objective writer who can see the advantage to the new formulation can sometimes even yield a commendation. On the third hand, editing a line or a block of text that has been a focus of irrascible debate for the past several weeks or months is an exercise in futility. It may even be an exercise in futility if one gets the formulation exactly right -- because people are incapable of being objective. Getting it exactly right involves writing with a physicists sense of elegance. I don't know of any renown physicists who dare characterize their own work -- in words or in formulae -- as elegant. Perhaps it is part of the training in objectivity that does it. Perhaps it is the unsympathetic response of experiments to fervent entreaties that does it.
[P0M:] We are advised to "edit boldly". I've been criticized (mildly) for bringing something up on a talk page instead of just jumping in and changing something. I've also been told, when proposing a change (in outline) on a talk page, "Just you try it, and see what I will do about it." (I'm paraphrasing, and maybe bringing into my paraphrase some of the emotion that stuck to the written message as a result of preceding acrid remarks from that contributor.) 
[P0M:] Personally, I'm not eager to waste everybody's time, and to have my actions entail confusion to the general reader who finds a different article every time 'e returns to it. I would rather take the proposed change to talk page and hash it out -- even though my efforts may be characterized in various unflattering ways. If I can make my point clearly enough, I seem to be able to change other people's opinions or see the light in regard to what others have said.  
[P0M:] I think the main problem with the precious preamble, over which so much virtual blood has been spilled, is that nobody is clear on what ideas need to be conveyed. If one does not have a clear intention, a clear mental picture, of what needs to be conveyed, no amount of skill, no accumulation of paraphrases, no... Nothing is going to help.  We have been arguing about buzz words and catch phrases, but we have failed to nail DNA.
:I think what you are looking for is "what the preamble is". It is a definition (a simple association). I hope nobody want to argue about this because I am sick of sidetracking. Bensaccount 00:37, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Boldly Where Angels...