Talk:Magic (cryptography)

message: This article needs to be cleaned up.  Some of the language, such as "toing and froing" is simply awkward.  The extensive use of parentheticals, especially in the 'Decryption' section, further degrades readability. 24.107.177.15 11:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Mr. Gordon Prange's tome on the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour ('At Dawn We Slept'), Magic did indeed refer to all Japanese diplomatic codes derived from Purple. These included Red, Purple and the J codes. Note that by the time of the attack the navy codes hadn't been broken yet, so these are stricly diplomatic in nature (although some information sent to the Honolulu contains purely military instructions). -- Ishikawa Minoru 17:16, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: What is underneath the first heading does not seem to correlate with the title and/or is out of place in this article and would probably be better placed in an article regarding the attack on Pearl Harbor or an article regarding the post attack hearings.
Also I removed the last sentence "Magic was the Japanese Code, after Purple was figured out by the United States." this appears to be outright wrong if the rest of the article is correct. ASA-IRULE 20:58, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Information carried in PURPLE traffic 

message: Some may question the statement by Alvin Kernan about the USS Enterprise's crew knowing that the Japanese code had been broken and that the Battle of Midway was being planned. Kernan is a respected writer and distinguished academic and taught for many years at Yale and Princeton Universities. When he wrote Crossing the Line, he was Senior Advisor in the Humanities and Director of the Graduate Fellowship Program at the Andrew F. Mellon Foundation. Previously, he was Director of Humanities at Yale and Director of the Graduate School at Princeton. He holds a Ph.D. in English literature. He is the author of eight books. He joined the Navy in March 1941, and left it in December 1945 with the rank of aviation chief ordnanceman. He attended Williams College on the G.I. Bill and won a fellowship to Oxford. Not bad for a guy who came down out of the Wyoming mountains to go to sea. My point here is that he doesn't need to lie to draw attention to himself or his accomplishments. Then take into account that his book was published by the Naval Institute Press. Reviewers there would have jumped on this statement if they thought there was no substance to it. Apparently, Magic wasn't the secret that the U.S. government thought it was. Thomas R. Fasulo (talk) 16:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  How secret was Magic? 

message: Ultra was the designation adopted by British military intelligence in June 1941 for wartime signals intelligence obtained by breaking high-level encrypted enemy radio and teleprinter communications at the Government Code and Cypher School (GC&CS) at Bletchley Park.[1] Ultra eventually became the standard designation among the western Allies for all such intelligence. The name arose because the intelligence thus obtained was considered more important than that designated by the highest British security classification then used (Most Secret) and so was regarded as being Ultra secret.[2] Several other cryptonyms had been used for such intelligence. British intelligence first designated it Boniface — presumably to imply that it was the result of human intelligence. The U.S. used the codename Magic for its decrypts from Japanese sources.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Constantinehuk (talk • contribs) 04:00, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Galantin wrote his book post war. By that time Ultra had long supplanted Magic as a general descriptor for signal intelligence products. He may have simply forgotten that at one time the material had been referred to as Magic.Oldbubblehead (talk) 03:59, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: He may not have forgotten; he may have done what a lot of postwar writers did, & used the term which has become more familiar. It's akin to using "JN-25" even referring to a time before the JN-25 designator was assigned.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 01:07, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "However, Galantin refers to Magic as "Ultra" which was actually the name given to the breaking of the German code."? 

message: "though no evidence exists that such intercepts were the actual rationale for EO 9066."
(1)  The only remaining Executive Department official who was still alive in the 1990's both testified and otherwise stated on record that the intercepts were a consideration in the lead-up to the decision for EO 9066.  From memory, he was an undersecretary in the War Department?  He testified in the hearings by the rigged committee that recommended the $70,000 payments to babies and even traitors who had renounced U.S. citizenship and returned to Japan after the war.
(2)  The timing, progression, and pattern of the intercepts themselves provide evidence for the decision for EO 9066.  Even though all radio traffic was not even intercepted -- leading to perfectly reasonable suspicions about what additional Japanese spying activities and sabotage plans might NOT be being picked up by the intercepts -- FDR would have been fully aware of the very disturbing sequence of messages that WERE intercepted, especially beginning from the early part of 1941, which resulted in the FBI "bust" of the California spy ring that summer and stated plans by Tokyo to move and continue spying/sabotage operations from Mexico (which also, like Canada, had already removed ethnic Japanese from its coastal area BEFORE the USA did).
Starhistory22 (talk) 14:55, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is, the quote meant intercepts were not the sole basis, & IMO that's a solid statement. If you can actually source testimony contradicting it, please do. Using the timing of intercepts as evidence of anything, OTOH, is a flimsy reed to build on. Moreover, relying on breaking spy rings, which AIUI were entirely made up of Japanese nationals, as a justification for interning American citizens is exactly the problem: you're doing exactly what the USG was doing, & you're just as wrong.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 19:56, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

text: I'd change it back, except it is cited. The trouble is, Malkin's "investigative" work is flimsy & makes the kind of faulty connections mentioned above to justify internment of American citizens for crimes by Japanese nationals. (I know, I've read it.) While not as thin as Stinnett, better sourcing for this claim would be a good idea.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 21:56, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  This statement in the current article is simply not true .... 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Magic (cryptography). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130404171310/http://cryptocellar.web.cern.ch/cryptocellar/PURPLE_History.pdf to http://cryptocellar.web.cern.ch/cryptocellar/PURPLE_History.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:06, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The deciphered messages quoted to show evidence of Japanese spy activity seem to fall a little short of proving that a major Japanese spy effort existed especially one which would justify the forced relocations and internments. The messages seem to be more a collection "Wanna dos" as opposed to "Have dones." In other words it appears to be your typical bureaucratic cover your ass memo. Sure there were fears but what was the actual reality? How many Japanese nationals and Japanese Americans were arrested, tried, and convicted for espionage carried out before and during the war? How many networks were uncovered? Overall, the article seems to have veered away from a discussion of Magic itself into a discussion of Magic as it relates to the internments. Perhaps, this topic should be removed from the Magic article and either folded into the articles dealing with internment or made an article by itself.Oldbubblehead (talk) 04:43, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd agree with that. That's more "applications of MAGIC intelligence" than about the MAGIC system proper.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 01:17, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Executive Order