Talk:Scientology and religious groups

message: So far the structure of this article consists of nothing but a series of vignettes in which a certain religion is said to have criticized Scientology. In other words, this is turning into List of religions that have criticized Scientology at time or another and that's not good enough for an article. Further, the Roman Catholic section is pure synthesis, and the Fishman bit at the end makes no logical sense being here. wikipediatrix 15:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  structure 

message: The bit about Scientology forbidding prayer has been dragged here from the Scientology article, where it was already disputed. (See here.) According to User:Stan En, he obtained this info from a non-Scn book by Steve Bruce called "Cathedrals to cults" and the HCOPL he cites frowns on meditation which is obviously not the same thing as prayer. (Even atheists can meditate, you know.) Out it goes. wikipediatrix 15:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: read the source first. I cited the paragraph and not just meditation with it.-- Stan  talk 18:22, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That doesn't answer my concerns. My question is specifically where did this "prayer" business come from, and exactly what quotations from this Bruce guy and this HCOPL back it up? wikipediatrix 18:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  1) It is not my burdon to explain you this and you shouldn't go to editwar only because you "don't believe". 2) There is a Bulletin wich explicit prohibits praying but I can't name it but I already introduced a lot of primary sources and its only a primary source anyway 3) Steve Bruce states that the monetheistic religions and Scientology are all absolutistic and also analyses Scientology with the conclusion that it is not compatible and that other religious practices are not allowed in Scientology and vice versa(he refers espescially to monetheistic religions and the praying stuff). I know it sounds odd because Scientology promotes the opposite but that is only a PR strategy without any truth.4) You obviously can't assume good faith with me! I don't have the book here but if you insist I will go to my library to copy down the quotations even if its not my burdon but yours. 4) You didn't name one source wich contradicts my sourced contribution. -- Stan  talk 19:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you "can't name it", then why are you sticking it back in the article? No sources, no info. If you want it to be in the article, yes, it IS your burden (note spelling) to provide proper sources for it. You've also just admitted that you don't actually have the Bruce book and yet you're edit-warring over it and you're 100% positive that it says what you say it says. We need much more than his opinion regarding such fundamental matters anyway. wikipediatrix 19:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Stay fair ! I said I can't name the actual Scientology Bulletin wich prohibites praying word for word even if I know it exists! But I already named some primary sources wich support my claim and the source I actually inserted is a reliable secondary source wich I did already name. I didn't stick anything back in the article wich was sourced inappropriatly! -- Stan  talk 19:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

text:  ...and I don't have to own the Bruce book. It is good enough that I read it in the library and I already offered you to go back to bring up exact quotations. -- Stan  talk 19:45, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steve Bruce 

message: *
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Dropping off a couple refs for later when the article is cleaned up and organized. AndroidCat 19:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Another frictional account

message: User:RookZERO, it took much yelling at you to get you to even leave edit summaries at all, and now you're continually making extremely misleading edit summaries such as this one and this one. They're total reverts and removal of all tags despite the false summaries. wikipediatrix 02:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This sort of thing wouldn't exist if it were a pure revert:  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scientology_and_other_religions&diff=154298617&oldid=154284137.  In fact, the edit summary is quite accurate.(RookZERO 02:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  RookZERO's edit summaries 

message: First paragraph says: "Members are not allowed to engage in other religious activities, such as non-Scientology meditation or prayer, or ceremonies." and References [1] and [2]. The book [1] isn’t online. but probably uses [2] which is mis-referenced but is HCO Policy Letter 15 December 1965R Issue I revised 25 July 1987, STUDENT'S GUIDE TO ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR".  The policy spells out an an exception to religious practice. Guideline "#14. Do not engage in any rite, ceremony, or any similar religious treatment or mental therapy while on course without the express permission of the Director of Training." (emphasis added) If a student doubts whether his religious activity is a treatment or mental therapy, he should ask. John Fitzgerald Smith 17:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Student Guide to Acceptable Behavior 

message: It would be interesting if we could find scholarly comparisons between Freemasonry and Scientology. There are definitely comparable elements in the two, such as secretive rituals and elite membership. From a Roman Catholic perspective, I would argue that the long list of ecclesiastical prohibitions against Freemasonry would also apply to Scientology. ADM (talk) 22:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Freemasonry

message: While the person above has requested scholarly comparsions between Freemasonry and Scientology, I would be very interested in learning Scientology's relationship with Wicca.--Splashen (talk) 01:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wicca

message: This relates not to the content of the article (as the previous "Requested Move" topic did) but rather to the ambiguity of the title.  In several countries, Scientology is not a recognised religion, yet this title can be easily read as indicating that the topic of the page in question is a discussion of religions in general, with the "religion known as Scientology" as the crux, main focus or jumping-off point---in other words, it posits Scientology as an undisputed member of the category, "Religions".  This is not the case---not where I live, nor in several other countries.
The first topic on this Talk page makes it abundantly clear that this kind of mistaken understanding is possible, because wikipediatrix erroneously compares the title to, "Baseballs and other balls" (ie. one type of ball as a jumping-off point for a discussion of balls in general), when in fact a more apt comparison would be, "Asterix and the Big Fight" (ie. an examination or study of one subject as it confronts another).
In order not to support the claim that Scientology is a religion where it is not, in fact, the case, I strongly urge the title be changed.
I'm not sure how easy it will be to do this, however, because what you have here is a comparison of one subject with another where there are those who claim they are directly related, and there are those who claim they are not---it's like having a discussion on chalk and cheese where one party believes chalk is a type of cheese, and the other party disagrees.  The only reason to discuss these two objects together is because they presumably have some kind of relationship or common attribute.  In this case, the relationship or common attribute is controversial.
On reflection I believe there are two choices: either fold the information contained within this article into another;  or, make it clear somehow that the article relates to a discussion of Scientology with other religions in countries where Scientology is recognised as such---for example, a separate article for "Scientology and other American religious organisations," and so forth.
Either way, the title cannot be left to stand as-is.  Personally, I feel the first of the two options is best, simply because the second would more than likely result in the creation of several very short articles all about one single event or utterance.
Edrarsoric (talk) 05:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change of name proposal 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)