Talk:Richard Hell

message: Wow, man, if it's ranked Official Top Ten Best Punk Songs by the official punk rock experts in England, it must be good.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.165.28 (talk) 16:05, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The article said he left in December 1975, but he's on the the January 23, 1976 Yonkers demos. So I altered that to "early 1976" not sure of the exact date ot even the month.
Lenbrazil (talk) 19:24, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left Heartbreakers in 1976 

message: Neither version of this that I see is terribly NPOV, and for the most part they're poorly references. References are badly needed for statements like him "originating" the punk look, or whatever that's saying. There was also a lot of editorializing in both versions ("shows his ornery side" vs. "excoriates the young interviewer's presumptions", for example, both are editorials.) I've tagged the article for cleanup and referencing attention, and will do some myself as well. I would also encourage both editors to be mindful of the three-revert rule. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Third opinion

message: It is wrong and a subversion of the spirit of Wikipedia for this editor to have gotten his particular version of the Hell article "protected" so that other editors may not contribute. I was going back and forth with this editor about how the Hell article should read, but I was compromising with the person--including material I thought irrelevant or misleading that the editor kept insisting on retaining--even when I thought it was unfair, just to reach a resolution. Now this person has managed to get his or her slanted version "protected" so that it can not be altered. It's misleading, for instance, to say Hell was a junkie for 20 years, "off and on" or not. Hell has always been forthcoming about his drug use. He had a drug problem 30 years ago (1977-1984 or so) and then relapse for a year or two around 1990, but has been completely clean since 1992, using no drug stronger than coffee--he doesn't even drink or smoke. It's ugly and unwarranted to call him a drug addict the way this editor does. Also why mention GEEK MAGGOT BINGO? Hell was in numerous obscure underground movies, some far more significant than GEEK. I think the GEEK reference is a giveaway that this editor is connected to "Nick Zedd," a person who's often attacked Hell and who directed that movie. Why remove half the links? I DID NOT add links--the abusive editor just wants Hell to seem less important and interesting than he is. The article is written in such a way as to make Hell look bad. Another instance is where the editor repeatedly writes that Richard "quit or was fired" from groups. Nearly all sources agree he departed the two groups in question by choice, but if you insist I can grant a neutral wording such as "Hell left" such groups. But no, this editor has gotten his mean-spirited version "protected." Also to say the Sex Pistols "refuted" McLaren's description of them as being highly influenced by Hell's clothing style is to mislead. They didn't "refute" (which is to demonstrate as being false) but rather they "disputed" (which is to make an opposing claim). (And this is all incorrect anyway, since there is no doubt whatsoever that the most famous Pistols' clothing was provided by their manager McLaren from his boutique Sex--which also provided the band's name--so if McLaren himself admits that those clothes were highly influenced by Hell, then the Sex Pistols' appearance was obviously influenced by Hell, no matter how much they might want to pretend otherwise.) In the final analysis I'm just making the point that this editor is prejudiced and has an agenda and shouldn't have been allowed to put his version of Hell up as the definitive "protected" one that no one else can contribute to. Roosterer 13:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You didn't think it an abuse of Wiki when your version was randomly protected, and you engaged in no discussion, which shows you don't understand the point here.  Who are you anyway?  I assume Roosterer is the new name for "66" user;you should so clarify then.  Why don't you clarify what you compromised on; I am one of the prior editors and I didn't see you compromise on anything.  Also you are the one who keeps putting in irrelevant or misleading material (if you are 66).  And your making it personal by insulting the editor/s in this fashion is uncivil, a Wiki no-no.  As an editor I took out a lot of excess stuff and justified it.  The point here is to address things point by point, come to a consensus or put to a vote if that is not possible.  If you feel a different "underground" film is better mentioned, make the argument.  But neglecting to mention any isn't right when you here claim it was a part of his artistic life.  In short, you did not go back and forth w/me.  Let's do it now.  If you have reputable cites for his self and other reported drug use dates (and the article says heroin addict not junkie as falsely summarize w/a slant trying to show the editor "dislikes" Hell), that would be a help; if you want to put he doesn't drink, it likely should be listed as a claim unless it is verifiable.  The discussion page already states why the links were pared down.  Re-read Wiki policy on links.  Your opinion that Hell is interesting and important is an indicator perhaps of npov; the goal of the article isn't to build him up or tear him down but to summarize.  Calling hte editor abusive is uncalled for and ag. Wiki policy.  Again, whether he quit or was fired should be cited/sourced, not nec'y in the article but here where changes are discussed.  I don't see a discussion of refutation re the Sex Pistols and suggest it is not that imp. a point to be making here in depth.  The sex pistols were important (and far more popular then hell) on their own, for their music, stage presence, etc. 4.231.245.229 16:52, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abuse of Wikipedia 

message: I have attempted to make the article tighter, so that readers can digest the relevant summary info w/o being loaded down w/excess details. Let me know if you think anything should be added back as informative and necessary, weighing the fact that we do want it to be trim but muscular. Eg, I thought citing the Rough Trade book for the observation that his song was considered a top 10 punk song by many was sufficient w/o adding a whole paragraph of names. Similarly, I think info about his parents can be kept slim; referencing a bio as a source would be useful. I left the list to other sources of info in the end as it is but would ask you pick and choose; it is not a bibliography but a few well-chosen cites for readers to go to for more info (there are wiki guidelines on this). His acting I feel should be mentioned in the body of text. If you feel his starring role in Geek MB should be replaced w/something else, let me know what. Nick Zedd has his own Wiki entry and has shown at moma and Hell stars in the film so I thought it was an appropriate site. If they had a public falling out I suppose you could add that reference if it is notable. Hope I've explained my edits, feel free to discuss or dispute any/all if on reflection you feel strongly and I will respond (my server has problems so it may be a day or two but I will). (I do think he is clearly best known as frontman of Voidoids; consequently I deleted probably; let's discuss if you honestly think he is best known as something else; that's a perfect for a vote item if there is a serious question). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.43.230 (talk • contribs)  03:50, 4 May 2007  (UTC)
Sorry I have been a little slow on the uptake, but I have been preoccupied with much work. I don't see most of the wording changes you describe. Maybe you meant that you were just discussing doing them, though it sounded as if you were saying you'd actually done them. Maybe Philip thought they were hasty and reinstated the original texts. I can see rewording the ROUGH GUIDE reference and I'll do that now, turning most of the information into a footnote. I don't see the necessity of much of the rest of the changes you talk about. The "probably" wording seems reasonable since I'd bet there are more people who know the name "Richard Hell" simply as a musician and/or writer than who know the entire name of the band. I think the information about his parents is interesting. I'll add citations for it soon. As for GEEK MAGGOT BINGO, Hell's starring role in the 1978 35 mm feature BLANK GENERATION directed by Ulli Lommel is much more significant than the crude 16 mm GEEK which only had Hell onscreen for maybe fifteen minutes, and Richard also starred in the NYC underground feature FINAL REWARD, and acted in WHAT ABOUT ME?, in both of which he does more than in GEEK. But none of these are a large or meaningful part of his career, and none of them are very highly regarded or widely known. They're obscure New York underground movies that are essentially amateur. The only movie which really had any impact and in which Richard is well handled and does well is Susan Seidelman's SMITHEREENS, which is mentioned already in the trivia section. If there is to be an expansion I'd think it would be in descriptions of his books, where he really shines. The books have gotten a lot of respect and it's the way he's made his living for twenty years. I'll trim the links a little, as you suggest (Also, I have that issue of CONDUIT that includes the interview with Hell that Mike Watt, who was bass player for the Minutemen and now for the new Iggy & the Stooges, put up at his blog. It is correct as transcribed at the blog.) Thoughts? Roosterer 16:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Attempt to make the article tighter

message: I know that the name of the boarding school Hell attended in Delaware, where he and Tom Verlaine met, was not "St. Andrews" as someone recently wrote. I have researched Hell's papers at the Fales Library at NYU and that is not the name of the school. 66.108.61.240 11:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you provide a source that verifies this? --Audacitor 14:28, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I've found that Hell names the school, Sanford Preparatory, in the published first chapter of his autobiography, so I changed the entry accordingly, adding a footnote for the source.Roosterer 02:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of Boarding School Hell Attended 

message: Someone added this to the Hell entry: "Hell also co-wrote and starred in the 1980 film 'Blank Generation', which featured many songs from the Voidoids' album of the same name. The film was loosely based on Hell himself, and featured French actress Carole Bouquet as his love interest." I'm removing it because it's untrue. Hell gets a small writing credit on the film, but Hell has disassociated himself from the movie many times. As he writes in his published notebooks (published by Hanuman Books as ARTIFACT in 1990), "Anyway, by the end of the movie Lommel [director and writer of the film] was bringing in new scenes to shoot every day, none of which had any perceptible relationship to the original script and which he refused to explain even to the extent of saying where in the chronology of the script they were supposed to come. It was impossible and, having no idea what I was supposed to be, I finally was just nothing." Also there are NOT "many" songs from the album in the movie--there is exactly one, and short excerpts from two more, all played live, and then one that's supposed to be in a recording studio is lip-synched. As I wrote above in the Edit Talk "Attempt to make the article tighter," "The only movie which really had any impact and in which Richard is well handled and does well is Susan Seidelman's SMITHEREENS, which is mentioned already in the trivia section." I think people are using the entry to publicize movies for their own purposes, not because the movies are interesting or that they have any meaning in Richard's career. He's a writer and a musician. If there's going to be a list of his achievements outside of music it should be books.Roosterer 12:51, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He has been in several low low budget movies; whether you or he like them or think he is "well handled" is irrelevant.  They are worth mentioning.  A "small writing credit" is a writing credit, is a co-writer and and your own notes note several songs from his album in the movie.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.47.149 (talk) 01:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing Misinformation About Ulli Lommel Blank Generation Movie 

message: The paragraph cited is not talking about fashion, but the song Pretty Vaccant and how it came from McLaren pressuring the Pistols to write a song like Blank Generation.  Ripped, and torn tee shirts with Nazi and Biker imagery were sold by McLaren and Weswood from the beginning when the shop was called Let it Rock.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.207.238 (talk) 04:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malcolm McLaren 

message: Wikinews is to interview Richard Hell about his life, music, career and future.  If you have a serious question for Hell, please leave it on my talk page under the title "Richard Hell interview".  --David Shankbone 00:49, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikinews to interview Richard Hell 

message: Someone inserted "Born to Jewish parents" at the start of Hell's Bio section. I removed it. As described in numerous places, even including the scabrous Heebie Jeebies at CBGBs, which is a book by a Jew trying to portray Punk music as Jewish, Richard didn't have "Jewish parents." His father, who died when Richard was seven, was an athiest non-practicing Jew, and his mother was a southern WASP Methodist who taught Richard nothing about Judaism. So if someone really thinks it's so important to specify every particle of everyone's ethnic background, that's the information. I don't think it's relevant.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.20.206 (talk) 05:57, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed misinformation about Hell's ethnic background 

message: These sources do not ever belong in External links. I have moved the link farm there to this talk page where they do belong. Warning: I didn't check them over, so be careful in choosing any references here. Thank you. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 07:07, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  References don't belong in External links- they belong here 

message: Can anyone clear this up? Most of the interwebs, including this wiki page, cite Richard Hell's birthday as 2 October 1949. His personal page on Facebook shows 18 September 1949. His website says "3 months before 1950".. not much help. genesee.gbh (talk) 14:16, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthday 18 September or 2 October 1949? 

message: User 67.169.230.150 keeps insisting on changing the release date of the first album from 1977 to 1976, without explanation or sources. All known sources say 1977 and this should not be changed unless a source saying 1976 can be identified. Can anyone else please also try and explain this to the user, who refuses to understand that a change like that has to be sourced?Greg Fasolino (talk) 18:27, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blank Generation year of release 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Richard Hell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120513075906/http://www.rockhall.com/exhibithighlights/500-songs-gj/ to http://www.rockhall.com/exhibithighlights/500-songs-gj
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110727185152/http://printedmatter.org/catalogue/moreinfo.cfm?&title_id=5304 to http://printedmatter.org/catalogue/moreinfo.cfm?&title_id=5304
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20101212003653/http://akashicbooks.com/godlike.htm to http://www.akashicbooks.com/godlike.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 13:01, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Substituted at 04:21, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment