Talk:Isle of Man TT Mountain Course

message: The name 'Ago's Leap' is a misnomer for the section of road between Brunswick Road/Selbourne Drive and the Quarterbridge Road junction with Bray Hill/Cronkbourne Road in Douglas and is an unofficial name used by the media and TV commentators.  This section of Quarterbridge Road was subject to repair work to the foundation and the profile and chamber of road during the winter of 1978/1979 by the Isle of Man Highway Board.  This was in response to a series of incidents which occured during the 1978 Isle of Man TT Races and due to the subsequent road works 'Ago's Leap' effectively ceased to exsist. The name is neither an official or unofficial name and has no use outside of either the Isle of Man TT Races or Manx Grand Prix.  The term is effectively an euphemism adopted by some sections of the media to avoided a name adopted by the Isle of Man and UK media for this section of Quarterbridge Road after the serious incidents that occured during the 1978 Isle of Man TT Races. (Agljones (talk) 09:14, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corner Names 

message: With six fatal accidents in 2011 alone, and 240 driver fatalities to date, this is the deadliest race course in the world. You might think something like that would be discussed in the article prose, at least briefly. --89.0.231.57 (talk) 06:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Dakar Rally is considered to be the deadliest race with statistically more fatal accidents per event.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.137.23.55 (talk) 20:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Dakar Rally isn't a race track. --Falcadore (talk) 02:11, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There has been a discussion of some of the safety issues on the talk page section of the Isle of Man TT Races.  The Mountain Course is also used by the Manx Grand Prix.  Agljones 21:42, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deadliest race course 

message: Was looking for inofrmation about the Peel Circuit used for karting and I can't find out anything in Wikipedia. --Falcadore (talk) 02:11, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Peel Circit

message: In every single named corner article, there oughta be a map included, showing its location on the course.  Like how maps appear in all other types of location articles, for historic sites, for towns, etc.
This application of  and an OpenStreetMap from Commons category:Snaefell mountain course circuit maps are the best I can find quickly to illustrate Gooseneck, Isle of Man article, but can anyone do better?  I used the historic site infobox simply because I'm familiar with it;  maybe there's a better infobox to use?  It can hold an image and caption and more, of course.  I'd like a large scale map plus a zoomed in one that shows the "gooseneck" shape of the road.  If anyone can improve upon these, I'd appreciate it. --doncram 05:59, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: maps for named corners articles

message: Are there sources for speeds of top racers through specific named corners?  The course record is now over .  A general quote about turns, in 1979, is that racers enter turns at 100 mph and "lean at dizzying angles": 
I try using that general source in editing the Windy Corner, Isle of Man article, but it is not specifically about that location.  Are there speed measurements collected by radar at specific locations?  Or measurements around the course from one racer's circuit?  Such info would help for the named corner articles. --doncram 10:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: My supposition is that the Superstock (large capacity, road equipped) and some Supersport 600s may still be fitted with working speedometers, although some riders prefer the display to be obscurred. They will know the road-speeds, and so do the TV commentators, the majority of whom were both short-circuit (1 to 3 miles) and TT riders. From memory, the radar guns or similar were used at the Highlander,Motorcycle Sport, August 1969 p.307 The Island Revisited. "...a fine surface permitting speeds up to 150mph past the Highlander". Accessed 15 December 2015 and Sulby Straight and gave an indication of comparative speeds of the machines, although other locations should not be discounted. Regarding timing transponders, then again I assume there are multiple points where sectors are recorded but never seen anything. It's generally accepted that 'conventional' motorcycles cannot achieve much more than 200mph, and retain full roadability, without extensive lowering and full streamlining.In the days of 50 horsepower engines, there used to be a thing called 'Isle of Man gearing', which meant that the low-revs peformance was adversely affected by extra-high overall gear ratios intended for continual high-speed running. I used to travel in a 1966 Buick Skylark with a big engine which only needed a two-speed auto trans - nowadays they'd have a smaller engine with 7-speeds for economy. When UK introduced a blanket 70mph limit, sometimes testers would travel to IoM and Ireland/Eire for actual road top-speed testing. One place they used was the Ballamodha Straight, requiring two-way runs to neutralise wind-effect, with a mile either side of the timed area. Some used portable, tripod-mounted electronics, others used handlebar-mounted stop watches. For a record attempt, a super-strong engine was coupled with extra-high (or Isle of Man) gearing. The private test facilities in England had insufficient run-up. The introduction of a five-speed (from four) motorcycle gearbox conversions in the late 1960s helped to retain roadability.Nowadays with 200 horsepower engines, gearing is not so knife-edge but accuracy of ratios is still critical.On the reverse-aspect, prior to the first time disc brakes were used on road machines in the June race, the same fast race-engined test bike was trialled in March with repeated runs up and down to/from Kate's (with slip road next to the pub, The Keppel Hotel) for brake-fade tests. Without checking the article, the tester quoted maybe 85mph before shut-off, whereas race conditions would be (then) 110/120.I was also interested to read the comments on this story (UPDATED: now at Wayback machine relating to the variations in the alleged course distance.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:07, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: An editor has kindly found an archived map which shows the transponder points. Just how 'official' this allegedly-offical map is I don't intend to debate, but it also shows "Waterworks" as I have always known it, not Water Works Corner or Waterworks Corner (remembering there are two right-handers, not 'a', or one, corner.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speeds through named corners? 

message: I note in the edit history that a passage about "Milky's" was added, and then was removed on 22 September.  The passage was:
I mention it to save the info, for possible use somewhere, perhaps in the Ballaspur article.  To include it would require source(s), I agree.  I see that there are two sources about Milky's crash in the Ballaspur article, one explaining the nickname.  Neither suggests that the course section is referred to as "Milky's", although I believe the assertion that it is sometimes known as that. --doncram 03:42, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If anyone wants to run this video, Milky can be heard saying "...this is my corner..." @15:40 minutes.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 23:26, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Milky's 

message: A Dunlop chap said on yesterday's ITV4 BTCC coverage said that Mark Higgins has just broken his own car lap record with a 127 mph lap in some sort of Subaru.  Can't find a proper refectence ATM though. Mr Larrington (talk) 19:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Found one, section updated. Mr Larrington (talk) 19:41, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Car Record

message: User:Agljones renamed this article as Isle of Man TT Mountain Course, complaining that the former name Snaefell Mountain Course used by Wikipedia since original upload in August 2006 was inappropriate.I renamed it due to inappropriate overwhelming advertising and promotion of the Isle of Man name. I have also deleted some 33 repetitious instances of "Isle of Man" from this article's prose; this contrived emphasis of the Isle of Man name is something common in articles Agljones has authored and/or contributed to.It should be noted that Agljones renamed the A18 road as A18 Snaefell Mountain road (Isle of Man) with the edit summary "correct description", again publicising the Isle of Man unnecessarily, using his sock-account of  in this change, 6 June 2015, shortly before I uncovered the evidence that Agljones and 11thmilestone were the same person with the latter subsequently indefinitely blocked. It was later changed to Snaefell mountain road by a uninvolved WP:NPOV editor with the edit summary "rm unnecessary disambiguation". The correct name AFAIK is Mountain road.Agljones also wrote into the opening prose sentence "Snaefell Mountain RoadIsle of Man Examiner pp33 dated 8th July 2008 or Mountain Road" in this change, 5 September 2008.This contradiction, where Snaefell Mountain road is correct but it is being argued that Snaefell Mountain Course is not correct indicates faulty logic and hypocrisy from Agljones.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 02:16, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-naming of article by User:Agljones in December 2017 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160613002522/http://www.iomtt.com/News/2016/June/10/Dunlop-shatters-records-in-Senior-TT.aspx to http://www.iomtt.com/News/2016/June/10/Dunlop-shatters-records-in-Senior-TT.aspx
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080102061804/http://www.motorcycledaily.com/20june06_ttspeed.htm to http://www.motorcycledaily.com/20june06_ttspeed.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071014213619/http://iomtt.com/TT-2008/Circuit-Guide.aspx to http://www.iomtt.com/TT-2008/Circuit-Guide.aspx
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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I have been trying to collate various mentions of the course's length being shortened by regular and gradual improvements, in particular where bends have been re-radiused and perhaps widened, eg, Windy Corner, Brandish. Other recent improvements have been resurfacing of the Cronk-y-Voddy Straight, the clipping of the inside corner banking at Kate's Cottage and something else I can't remember in time for the 2017 races. The earliest hard-published ref I have is 1962, where two bankings were removed to widen/straighten one section to allow the riders to have a better view through the turn (their words, not mine).
This Isle of Man newspaper article alleges that the course was shortened by 20 metres due to the roadworks at Brandish.
I do not believe the course has been 'officially' measured, or that the Isle of Man government would allow any independent third-party experts to conduct an impartial measurement, and that 'they' are riding on the backs of Manx folklore tradition relating to the 37.?? miles from over a century ago. It could be 36.?? and we'd never know, and/or they'd never admit to it. It's the same for all competitors - but any time/speed-calculations are only advisory and relative (to other competitors) and may not represent a true, mean speed attained throughout the course. 
There have been at least two 'unofficial' measurements that I have a hard-published source for, and there are two or three different ways of aligning the measuring device throughout the various bends and interlinking straights. Unlike non-road short-circuits based on airfields or parklands where there is a closely-defined racing line, there is some variation in the lines through certain parts as can be seen in this image. The riders are obligated to carry on-board camera equipment, which caused John McGuinness unhappiness as it meant that others were able to see and analyse his lines through linking-bends. Guy Martin can be seen, I think maybe in the film TT3D: Closer to the Edge repeatedly running-back the recording, commenting (words to the effect of) This is where I'm going wrong..I'm going in too-hot...losing it on the exit... when looking at the run up the mountain from Ramsey. --Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:46, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alleged length of the course