Talk:List of theological demons

message: Is there really a demon of folklore named Leonard?  
: Not now there isn't, presumably past vandalism ϢereSpielChequers 17:12, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leonard 

message: Any context to this list?  What source/culture/fiction does this list apply to?
:: Seems to be "all of them": I've seen demons from ebraic culture (such as Lilith, if I recall correctly), greek (kerberus), european (succubi and incubi), mesopothamic (Pazuzu) as well as fiction (jubilex, from chtulu mythos); and this is just a first glance. Also I'm not so sure if they're all demons, or some of them could be considered a god or something like that by some. 
:: Maybe the list could become useful anyway if some reference was given to the source/culture/fiction of each demon, since some occultist seem to consider all of them together somehow. Valhalla 11:08 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)
---
The list does not specify religions or mythologies, but I'm according to Valhalla in some concepts. Fictional demons have nothing to do with specific demons. Some gods were removed from this page, like Balor, Lugh, and others, but the Asuras were placed there again. Besides, somebody listed some demons with every different spelling he/she found, so there are lots of them repeated once and again. Besides, some demons like Bifrons, Seir, Vine, Tannin and Wall (? maybe a misspelling for Vual) were linked to other definitions concerning different things, and they were changed into "Vine (demon)", as an example, because it is ridiculous that some one clicks on Vine and finds a plant instead of a demon. Many of the articles on the demons give references to the books or authors that mentioned them. The Warlock 07:44 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)
::I had forgotten to say that many of those demons were taken from The Lesser Key of Solomon and Pseudomonarchia Infernalis.The Warlock 10:37 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)
:::That's useful information, thank you! Could you please add this source info to the individual demon articles, please? That would really help the NPOV policy, in which controversial information is attributed to who makes the statement or has the belief. It would be useful to know who believes in these demons, whether different sects/sources believe the same things, etc. 217.158.106.44 10:41 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)
---
Maybe the page would make more sense if there were also other names of the said demons (maybe only the (or a) main one with a link, and the other without, unless an article already exists for both names), as well as a short note of context.
I'll try and add such notes for the few ones I know, but I'm afraid that some ones will have to make most of the work. If at the end it is decided that they aren't needed feel free to remove them.
Also, I don't think that fictionary demons should be removed, only properly contextualized. Valhalla 20:52 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)
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Until what I could, the page is contextualised. If more information is available, more contextualisation will be added. The Warlock 10:27, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Context of list 

message: - Only took 4.5 years! ϢereSpielChequers 17:27, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If someone does create that then we have two more that I've just moved here from the article: 
* N°1 (Colfer's Artemis Fowl (series)) 
* Qwan (Colfer's Artemis Fowl series)
ϢereSpielChequers 19:41, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of fictional demons 

message: Why is Allah on this tlist as it is a synonym for God?  -Macarro
: Vandalism - its gone now and any addition needs to linked to something defined as a demon or out they go! ϢereSpielChequers 18:21, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: lucifer is an angel, not a demon. he got kicked out of heaven, but that doesnt make you a demon. he may have become a demon afterwards, but he was no longer lucifer by then.
on the other hand (as everything in the christian mythology) lucifer is stolen from other mythologies and such, and lucifer was some sungod in some tribes. he may have been a demon in certain contexts, but in christian mythology lucifer was the top angel that may have become satan in a much later stage. it should be edited or removed--Lygophile 04:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this page exists to list demons in a broad variety of settings, (from Judeo-Christian-Islamic through ancient civilizations like Assyria and Egypt) Lucifer is certainly an applicable inclusion, as per your statement, "he may have been a demon in certain contexts."  Doubtless, according to Christian mythology Lucifer was an exalted angel, but just as doubtless, according to Christian mythology an angel that is kicked out of Heaven becomes a demon.  Zahakiel 20:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: i doubt that. being kicked out of heaven is just getting your wings clipt, theres a lot of room between ultimate good and ultimate evil. and the point is..i wouldnt know if the term 'lucifer' is ever officially used to mean a demon. if it is then ok, but only if it is.--Lygophile 01:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

text: also shouldnt say 'christian demonology' then01:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You wrote, "i doubt that. being kicked out of heaven is just getting your wings clipt, theres a lot of room between ultimate good and ultimate evil."  Not in Christian thought when dealing with spiritual beings.  I do not know of any source recognized in orthodox Christianity that speaks a "middle ground" for spirits, outside of perhaps Origen; and especially not this spirit.  Lucifer does officially refer to the leader of the demons in almost every modern mainstrean Christian resource of which I am aware.  See the entry on Demons (In the New Testament and Christianity), which includes the phrase, "It should be noted that some denominations asserting Christian faith also include, exclusively or otherwise, fallen angels as de facto demons," therefore the "Lucifer" entry more than qualifies for this particular list. Zahakiel 23:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually in "Christian mythology", as you guys term it, Lucifer was an archangel along with Michael and Gabriel. When Lucifer was kicked out along with the angels that followed him, they became demons with him as their leader. He then became known as Satan. Also, being kicked out of heaven DOES make the angels demons. Deflagro 01:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  lucifer? 

message: Uvall is disambiguation, linking it to Vual would only be natural though i dont know which name is more appropriate, just wanted to point this out so someone with expertise can decide what to do. --AlexOvShaolin 04:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call.  I've directed the wiki-link to Vual, but I have preserved the existing spelling in the list that is actually displayed, since I believe that is the more common term... it's hard to tell, and lists like this where there are many a.k.as and variant spellings have the potential to be confusing. ◄Zahakiel► 18:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uvall 

message: I cannot find Deicide as a demon name and it is not an egyptian word. It means to kill god.
I had forgotten to mention that entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thotheros (talk • contribs) 
:Quite right.  I've removed that one.  Thanks. ◄Zahakiel► 14:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deicide -  one last thing here  

message: Shouldn't there be a list of fictional demons? TheBlazikenMaster 16:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fictional demons 

message: Name:  Titivillus
Rank:  Minor Imp
duties:  Patron demon of scribes and calligraphers
In the middle ages, (prior to the invention of the printing press) the Holy Bible could only be duplicated by means of hand-copying the entire text. (!)  In popular medieval belief, Satan kicked Titivillus out of hell each morning with an empty sack and told the imp he couldn't come home until the sack was full of transcription errors.
Current status:  Not on the demons listing.
He does, however, have his own wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titivillus  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.135.72.129 (talk) 00:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Demon:  Titivillus 

message: I find this entry suspicious:
 Kwantomm (romanian demonology)
All the google hits are taken from this page, and it looks like a misspelling of "quantum". Unless someone can come up with evidence for it, I'll remove it. --Jamoche 17:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suspicious redlink Kwantomm 

message: Um, I'm, pretty sure Damien isn't part of christian mythology, but just simply the name of the supposed "son of the devil" in "The Omen" 71.114.71.169 22:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Damien?

message: Don't we have enough Christian art on Wikipedia? Why should there be a picture of a saint/angel on the list of demons page? I am removing this image from the page as I know the Christian mindset behind the insertion of such an image, disgusting.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.80.208.250 (talk) 08:13, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of a Saint On List of Demons Page 

message: I wonder if there is a list somewhere of "most vandalized pages on Wikipedia."  I think this one would be in the running. ◄Zahakiel► 02:41, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently it is up there with MILF & Russell Brand. I'm going to propose semi protection to stop people vandalising without at least registering. ϢereSpielChequers 11:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Semi protected for a fortnight. I think a list of most vandalised pages would just encourage the vandals, it also varies over time - the governor of Alaska has been mighty popular of late. ϢereSpielChequers 21:35, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Most vandalized?

message: Pistis Sophia
CHAPTER 103
"And with haste they take pity on it quickly, to lead it up out of the chaos and lead it on the way of the midst through all the rulers. And they [sc. the rulers] do not chastize it in their harsh judgments, but the fire of their regions troubleth it partly. And if it shall be brought into the region of Yachthanabas, the pitiless, then will he indeed not be able to chastize it in his evil judgments, but he holdeth it fast a short time, while the fire of his chastisements troubleth it partly.
And again they take pity on it quickly, and lead it up out of those regions of theirs and they do not bring it into the æons, so that the rulers of the æons do not carry it away ravishingly; they bring it on the way of the sun and bring it before the Virgin of Light. She proveth it and findeth that it is pure of sins, but letteth them not bring it to the Light, because the sign of the kingdom of the mystery is not with it. But she sealeth it with a higher seal and letteth it be cast down into the body |263. into the æons of righteousness,--that body which will be good to find the signs of the mysteries of the Light and inherit the Light-kingdom for ever.
CHAPTER 140
Of Yachthanabas
Again he continued in the discourse and said unto this disciples: "The fifth order, whose ruler is called Yachthanabas, is a mighty ruler under whom standeth a multitude of other demons. It is they which enter into men and bring it about that they have respect of persons,--treating the just with injustice, and favour the cause of sinners, taking gifts for a just judgment and perverting it, forgetting the poor and needy,--they [the demons] increasing the forgetfulness in their souls and the care for that which |371. bringeth no benefit, in order that they may not think of their life, so that when they come out of the body, they are carried in ravishment.
"The souls then which this ruler will carry off in ravishment, are in his chastisements one-hundred-and-fifty years and eight months; and he destroyeth them through his dark smoke and his wicked fire, while they are exceedingly afflicted through the flames of his fire.
"And when the sphere turneth itself and the little Sabaōth, the Good, who is called in the world Zeus, cometh, and he cometh to the eleventh æon of the sphere which is called the Water-man, and when Boubastis cometh to the fifth æon of the sphere which is called the Lion, then the veils which are between those of the Left and those
of the Right, draw themselves aside, and there looketh out of the height the great Iaō, the Good, he of the Midst, on the regions of Yachthanabas, so that his regions are dissolved and destroyed. And all the souls which are in his chastisements are carried off and cast back anew into the sphere, because they are ruined in his chastisements.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.223.169.22 (talk) 03:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yachthanabas, The Gnostic Demon 

message: All,
It has been proposed that this page be moved to List of theological demons, with the possibility of creating a separate list for those that have appeared only in works of non-religious fiction; this avoids the NPOV issues implicit in the title, and hopefully will discourage vandalism to an extent. Input appreciated.
James F. (talk) 19:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but  would suggest a slightly different boundary -  as  both  Dante's inferno and CS Lewis's screwtape letters count as religious fiction  I would suggest a  simple fiction /  theology divide, in order to get into the theological list a demon would need to be verifiably considered to be a demon by a notable religion. That way various Gods and people would not count as demons just because some preacher denounces them as such.  ϢereSpielChequers 23:21, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. "List of theological demons" or "list of demons found in major religions" perhaps? and then "list of fictional demons". Ironholds (talk) 06:33, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Also I've turned List of demons into a disambiguation page. ϢereSpielChequers 10:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed move 

message: Currently the page for Sindragasun has been redirected to a page about Scat Singing. I don't know if this was vandalism or intentional for some reason, but it seems odd to have a link on a list of demons direct to a page about scat singing. I'd prersonally like the original post restored, if possible.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 06:36, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Its back, but the article is unreferenced and has been shifted from christian to occult. ϢereSpielChequers 09:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sidragasum 

message: So I was slightly interested in names of demons and I noticed one peculiarity.  The demon Kobal's page is being redirected to a page about the planet Kobol which is a planet on the show Battlestar Galactica.  I'm not sure if there was originally a page for Kobal himself or why the redirect exists, but I figured whoever is helping to maintain this page should be made aware. 69.204.200.18 (talk) 05:00, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, tis gone, and Kulak is toast as well. BTW this isn't a protected page, you are welcome to edit it as well. ϢereSpielChequers 10:20, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Questionable Redirect

message: won't someone please semi protect this page... ? DarkoNeko x 18:34, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I won't because I've edited this page way too often to consider myself an uninvolved administrator. Feel free to request semi protection at WP:PADLOCK, but have a look at what they protect and decline there - I suspect you'll find that based on the number of vandalisms it receives per day, this page looks more like the sort they decline than that they protect.  ϢereSpielChequers 18:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  uh 

message: :second of two new sections
What does St George and the dragon illustrate? Is the dragon a demon? Even if so, (a) there is no entry for any dragon afaik ; (b) all of the entries are proper names afaik. --P64 (talk) 19:41, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  St George and the dragon 

message: Several articles need parallel attention, at least in the lead section(s) and See also.
* list of theological angels  <- "L of angels" redirects here
* list of theological demons
* list of deities <- "L of gods" redirects here
:
* list of fictional angels
* list of fictional demons
* list of deities in fiction
:
* list of legendary creatures by type
* list of legendary creatures
:
Notes on the current 2012-05-21 prefaces:
* this theological demons cites religion, theology, demonology, mythology, and folklore (and there are many so-called folklore entries) 
* legendary creatures by type cites "mythology, folklore and fairy tales" in contrast to "modern fantasy fiction and role-playing games" 
* legendary creatures cites "historical mythologies" in contrast to "modern invention". It also disclaims "individuals of a particular species".
Legendary creatures, an article graded Start by (WP:MYTH), calls its subject "mythological and folkloric".
:
This comment may be extended or reformatted. --P64 (talk) 19:10, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding how to define or to describe related lists it may be useful to refer to some categories: :Category: Demons; :Category:Deities, spirits, and mythic beings; :Category:Fictional characters; ; ;  (and their main articles, of course).  --P64 (talk) 21:55, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related articles need parallel attention 

message: As I save 2012-05-21 18:48 after compiling the Key: Sources named, that list covers all of the parenthetical attributions that are used in the article. Perhaps it should soon omit some that are used, but any  current omission is my oversight.
A great majority of the entries specify (usually one) source "demonology", "mythology", or "folklore". Here are the exceptions with numbers of appearances.
* Islamic eschatology (1)
* Gnosticism (3)
* Hinduism (4)
* Thelema (1)
* Zoroastrianism (5)
*    nautical folklore (1)
*    Sanskrit,[clarification needed] (1)
*    Testament of Solomon (3; i provided two after seeing one) --Christian in origin? or in publication? or in extant manuscripts?
* [missing] (7)
** five redirects to Watcher (angel) or Fallen angel
** Orcus is discussed immediately above
** Rumyal is a redlink without explanation
--P64 (talk) 19:31, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Key: Sources named 

message: 1. Quote from Valefar): "Other spellings: Malaphar, Malephar, Valafar, Valefor."
2. Three of those four others are redirects, all except Valafar.
3. This article has one listing, (V) "Valefar/Malaphar/Malephar (Christian demonology)" with all three name versions linked.
* The five spellings are from two neighborhoods in the alphabet so two listings may be appropriate, under M and V.  
* Within each listing that does give multiple names for one demon, there should be only one link and it should be the article name where applicable. The entry should begin with the article name where applicable, regardless of alphabetical order.
Suggested format in the example instance: two listings, "Malaphar, Malephar" and "Valefar, Valafar, Valafar". --P64 (talk) 19:48, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Complex listings 

message: Does the son of Satan "Salpsan," as mentioned in Questions of Bartholomew, qualify to be on this list? Twillisjr (talk) 18:45, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Salpsan 

message: Devil is very much a part of Myths of Christianity. Then why does this article lists it as Christian demonology and not Christian mythology? Christian Mythology (talk) 11:51, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the article is still being overhauled.  If the IP (which, judging from your username and WP:NOTHERE userpage, is you) had edited a bit more reasonably, the article would be unlocked and entities which appear in myths (i.e. stories with actual plots) could more easily be labelled as such.  As it was, the IP kept labeling figures which have no stories as mythological even though they were just from demonological fiction.  Ian.thomson (talk) 12:39, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

text: I would say it is Biblical rather than mythology because it is in the Bible, so it is more religious than some separate cultural myth. 51.9.80.54 (talk) 20:06, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is Devil not listed as Christian Mythology? 

message: You know, some of the "demons" listed here aren't actually demons, but rather classical monsters, spirits (neither/both benevolent and malevolent, and quite different from demons) and deities, many of which predate the Christian concept of demons and some of which whose cultures went a long time before being discovered by Christians, and which were later twisted and made out to be or equated to demons by Christians. Should they really still be counted? DoomSkuller (talk) 00:43, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Monsters 

message: Kali is a famous Hindu goddess, "destroyer principally of evil forces" and calling her a demon is extremely offensive to members of the Hindu community. I am therefore removing her from this list. 2001:4898:80E8:9:0:0:0:52D (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: New sections go at the bottom.  Check links before you remove them, there's a difference between काली (kaa-lee) and कलि (kay-liy).  Your reasons do not apply to the villain of the Kalki Purana.  Ian.thomson (talk) 19:21, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kali 

message: Demons are getting the short end of the stick, check out the companion page List_of_angels_in_theology 2001:4898:80E8:F:AE1A:EC13:9E1E:3061 (talk) 17:01, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  This Should Be A Chart 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of angels in theology which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 12:31, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: This one is listed as from Buddhism but the link just goes to an article about the metal silver. I have never heard of this one either. 51.9.80.54 (talk) 20:14, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silver 

message: Demons of North and South America. 172.220.15.166 (talk) 20:42, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  New World Demons