Talk:Phil Read

message: I followed the exploits of Phil Read during his active (motorcycle racing) years. I cannot ever remember him being given the "Prince of Speed" nickname. I appreciate his book is called that, I just don't remember him ever being referred to as that anywhere. Is there any independent corroborative evidence for this?Plingsby (talk) 22:05, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Prince of Speed? 

message: *The original upload here in 2008 included the same basic text "...nicknamed 'the Prince of Speed'". 
*The same editor added an inline citation immediately after Prince of Speed in 2009"50 Years Of Moto Grand Prix">50 Years Of Moto Grand Prix (1st edition). Hazelton Publishing Ltd, 1999. ISBN 1-874557-83-7  
*I added a small change, relating to Speady Read (originally appearing in a period source) in 2015, so there existed two nicknames in the prose
*I later added an acknowledgement to the autobiography 2 July 2015 
* removed the original text with the following edit-summary: "Removed nonsense about the "nickname" 'Prince of speed'. That was Read's own name for the (auto)biography. There is no evidence that he was ever called that when he was actually racing. (If anyone finds any, please reinstate) 26 November 2017
* This deletion leaves the lede reading significantly differently as: "...motorcycle road racer nicknamed Speady Read"
* This was almost an aside in the original 1974 book magazine, not a major point as is now implied.
* changed the spelling to Speedy Read 31 January 2018, assuming it was a typo even though italicised.
*Even if it was Read himself who coined the expression Prince of Speed, it is presumptive to try to assert that there was no earlier usage; I have had this criticism levelled at me, in another context. In yet another context, another unconnected editor has opined "absence of proof is not proof of absence".
*I do not feel that my addition of Speady Read should endure now, due to the changed-context.
*It would be interesting to know the thoughts of  relating to what the reference shown below verifies in relation to Prince of Speed, even if it was 29 years later.
--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 23:27, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I presumed that it was spelling mistake because a nickname usually starts by people using it verbally so the spelling would follow normal convention. To attest to an unusual and "incorrect" spelling in a particular language would require multiple sources in that language that use this spelling. This article and others have been edited a certain number of times by French ip users (or rather one user with different IPS) that have a very limited grasp of the English language this was also one of the reasons for changing the spelling. If there is just one RS that uses this spelling I believe it would more appropriate to say that the author of the text gave him the nickname of "speady read". Also italics are not usually used to denote unusual but intentional spelling. I believe this is done by adding [sic] after the word. Dom from Paris (talk) 09:55, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I couldn't actually remember the detail of this, and in what sequence and I don't recall checking any non-English language based IPs. It has reminded me, though, of an Australian editor (or resident thereof) writing OR driven by the I know [personally] Ferry Brouwer and he told me this Syndrome. Ferry Brouwer being involved with Yamaha in the 1970s and beyond. Some of this (Australian/Ferry Brouwer mentioned) sequence with origins circa 1971, was acknowledged in print as being disputed, therefore was withheld from publication circa 1990. These are just two examples of the 'Law of Diminishing Returns', although often when researching serendipity has a positive effect in unearthing other useful, unexpected aspects.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:54, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just seen on my Watchlist some changes to John Surtees, and not knowing anything at all about him (except what I have in the house, written by Surtees himself that I am most reluctant to add to WP as it is likely to be 'pirated' to a website with a copyright symbol slapped on the footer) I notice he is accoladed with "...where he soon earned the nickname figlio del vento (son of the wind)" with this modern website (2013 article) as the sole substantiation.I have long-since been particularly unhappy with this American website that I believe only goes back to 2009, having no acknowledged affiliations to any established hard-publisher and no apparent archives, presenting themselves as experts, accepting and welcoming amateur contributions and creating articles by interviewing modern-day owners of classic motorcycles (probably augmented by plagiarising other content). And of course, WP keyword-search-engine-warriors pounce upon it.On the basis that one (modern) source only is cited for the nickname, other historic sources should be sought.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:46, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of the "nonsense about the "nickname" 'Prince of speed'."