Talk:The Chronicles of Amber

message: Back in the late 1980s, some other (non-Zelazny) author created a book based in the world of Amber where a non-Amberite needs to find a way of shifting through shadow (they have to sell their soul to do so, as I recall).  It was one of those books that was a self-contained role-playing came, using a combination of choose-you-own-adventure style and using dice to go through combat in the book.
I think the book was named "The long black road" or "The long road".  I may even have it somewhere at my dad's house.  Anyway, if anyone knows anything more about this book, it would be worth listing.  And, no, IMHO, it wasn't as god as the Zelazny books. Samboy 05:11, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the Choose Your Own Adventure books by Neil Randall based on information listed on amazon.com.  Jwolfe 07:27, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for hunting those down! Samboy 06:23, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  A role-playing book 

message: Why is a non-Amber work mentioned?  If there's a connection, I think it should be explained.  —JerryFriedman 00:19, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Uthark, Nightside of the Runes''

message: It's been a very long time since I read either, but I recall there were pretty explicit "hat tips" in Amber to World of Tiers, such as the character Dworkin Barimen and the Horn of Shamimbarimen (amazing what the mind retains). adamrice 04:59, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  World of Tiers/Amber 

message: The article contradicts what memory I have of the series as it pertains to the Logrus and its abilities.
In the Corwin series, the inhabitants of Chaos found it much more difficult to move through Shadow than those of Order, and when they could move through it, they were unable to bring others along with them--hence the need for the Black Road.  Otherwise they could have moved armies across at any time they liked, yet obviously they never did, since every Amberite short of Oberon and Dworkin was surprised at the mere existence of something on the other side of Shadow.
In the Merlin series, it was established that the Logrus was the Chaos equivalent of the Pattern, and those who had 'negotiated' it were able to pull things to themselves through the worlds of Shadow, as Merlin does numerous times.  "Walking Shadow" was apparently possible for anyone born of Chaos, without the prerequisite of negotiating the Logrus.
: well, you never actually see a full blood chaosite take part in a hellrun. Merlin does, but we may assume that he is using his pattern magic to do this. Or, maybe the chaosites could always go through shadow, but only initiates of the logrus. thus the need of the black road for those black cats and horned beasts and stuff. as for going though shadow without the logrus, i believe that somwhere in the merlin cycle they say that the shadow interfaces near chaos are "frayed" or something to that effect, meaning that in that area, you can cross the boundaries because they are so ill defined.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.33.198.74 (talk) 19:09, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember the Chaos family being a bunch of devious backstabbers, always pollitically plotting, much worse than those of Amber.  Merlin ended up succeeding to the throne because all his prececessors were murdered. --ssd 01:07, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nature of Chaos 

message: I think templates such as  and  would be nice for navigation.
You can see  at Ender's Game series and  at Ender Wiggin.
:I think as it sits now, a template for the books might be nice...though there are "preceeded by / followed by" boxes at the bottom of each of the articles on the books already.  For the characters, I only found articles on Merlin of Amber and Corwin of Amber so for now I'd hold off until (if?) someone writes articles on the other denizens of the Amber universe.  I'll see if I can fiddle around with an amber template though and get one that looks nice. --Syrthiss 13:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I ended up adding . KJ 17:30, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, very nice :) --Syrthiss 18:16, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates, anyone? 

message: I cleaned it up a bit, however I am unclear about a few details, mainly how many copies of the Logri there are throughout shadowland.
Sethie 23:58, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't remember anything from the main series books mentioning echoes of the Logrus in shadow.  The swamp / maze that Merlin hid Ghostwheel in seemed to me to have Logrus-like physical qualities, but for actual negotiable Logrii the original in the Courts of Chaos might be the only one. --Syrthiss 13:52, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I think "fixed logrus" analog to the "broken pattern" was just a product of the role playing game and fan fiction.  Nothing like that ever appeared in any of Zelazny's works.  --Darth Borehd 03:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Logrus section

message: I happened to discover an unabridged version of Sign of Chaos released by a company known as Audio USA.  No website is available nor can I seem to Google them.  But I have the unabridged none the less.  The Audio Copyright is listed as 2002.  Perhaps we can get this added into the audiobooks section, and also see if we can hunt down the other unabridged books.Dragonranger 14:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Who reads it? --Darth Borehd 03:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lost Unabridged Found? 

message: Wasn't there also a video game made from Nine Princes in Amber? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darth Borehd (talk • contribs) 03:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video Game? 

message: Wasn't this "contradication" being taken care of when we learned (in Chaos and Amber) there WAS a Pattern ("beta" version) before begin of Dawn of Amber ? -- Hkmaly 15:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Problem is that it's more about Amber fans that about the books. While I am Amber fan, I don't belong to any of groups who criticized Betancourt (I learned about it only after books were translated to czech) and I don't know what it was really about. Also, I prefer not to edit english wikipedia because of state of my english. But ok, I try it ... -- Hkmaly 13:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shadow existed before the Pattern 

message: I've added the picture back in and put up a fair use rational; however, if someone could get the omnibus volume and justify it, it would probably be better. Adam McCormick 01:21, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nine Princes Picture 

message: There has been a dispute as to which version of the two cycle descriptions should be used, before we get into an edit war about it, I'd like to get wider input. The two versions are here and here and the disputed sections are "The Corwin Cycle" and "The Merlin Cycle." I'm hoping we can debate this and come to a consensus. Adam McCormick (talk) 03:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, here are my main issues with the cycle descriptions, which is why I thought a cleanup was in order: 1) too many spoilers, 2) too much superfluous detail, 3) awkward writing. On point 1: The descriptions give away such major plot twists as that Brand is the traitor, that Dworkin helps Corwin escape, that Luke is Brand's son, and even that Julia faked her own death (!). Anyone who hasn't already read the series and who comes to this entry in order to get a basic idea of what the books are about is going to have every surprise totally ruined in two short paragraphs. At the very least these descriptions should require a spoiler warning, but I think it's silly to even have so many spoilers here. On point 2: The cycle descriptions contain way too many specific details, such as the long-winded discussion regarding the circumstances of Corwin's imprisonment and escape. On point 3: The writing is just plain bad, with overlong sentences full of clumsy parenthetical asides. Random is mentioned twice, but it's never explained who he is.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.145.84 (talk) 20:01, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, have a look at WP:SPOILER, spoiling the book is not a valid reason to remove content. I agree that the sections need rewriting, but the version that you made removed more than it added. I think that the sections should be expanded, broken out by book, with "main article" headers to the articles about the books. I'm not arguing that we don't need a rewrite, but it needs to be a rewrite not a hack and slash. I'll propose my own version as soon as I can. Adam McCormick (talk) 20:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All right. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I still don't think that a one-paragraph general overview of a series is an appropriate place to reveal key surprises. That's what the entries for the individual volumes with their fair-warning "Plot Summary" headings are for. Even giving away too much detail here about the ending of Nine Princes in Amber (that Corwin is defeated, blinded, grows new eyes, and escapes) seems to me unfair to the potential reader. I think my version strikes a good balance between conveying the broad outlines of the plot without spoiling the reading experience or getting lost in minutiae (I would hardly call my version a "hack and slash"), but I'm happy to consider alternatives.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.145.84 (talk) 20:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've had a go at a rewrite. A bit more extensive than the original, but about more than the first book this time. Remember that it's supposed to be a summary of the series, not a catchy preview but a summary. It doesn't need a disclaimer and theres nothing against having WP:SPOILER content. Adam McCormick (talk) 19:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cycle Descriptions 

message: Neither The Logrus nor The Pattern is sufficiently independently notable to justify its own article. As such, these two articles should be merged here. Neelix (talk) 15:29, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose.  They get discussed sufficiently for notability purposes; Google Books shows that easily enough.  Their articles need referencing work, not merging. —chaos5023 (talk) 04:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[The Logrus]] and [[The Pattern]] 

message: The queen of Rebma is named Moire, not Moiré,* and she is not the subject of the article on moiré patterns or any of the other articles referred to by the disambiguation page. Similarly, while Tir-na Nog'th is an obvious allusion to Tír na nÓg, Zelazny doesn't use the fada.* Removing the acute accents and the link to "moiré pattern", and inserting the hyphen.
* Both names appear on p. 54 of Nine Princes in Amber in The Great Book of Amber: The Complete Amber Chronicles, 1-10. HarperCollins, 1999. .
--Thnidu (talk) 18:33, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amber's Reflections 

message: I've re-organized and tightened this section, making it focus more clearly on just the follow-on series rather than rambling into other topics. This meant removing the reference to other Amber items which were authorized by Zelazny. The 'controversy' on whether or not he would have wanted other books written is the series might be better if moved to a subsection.
An awful lot of what I tightened included phrasing line 'some fans' and other vague references. I do recall such controversy, but have not got any references to it. In particular, the description of it as 'fan fiction' should either be properly referenced, or removed/weakened.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by StevenCSimmons (talk • contribs) 21:10, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dawn Of Amber 

message: It's worth noting (but I don't have a formal cite, and thus am not placing in the page) that the nine princes were based on real people that Zelazny knew from the Baltimore/Johns Hopkins science fiction scene. A friend of mine had "corwin" as a physics tutor in the mid-1980s, he died shortly after. The pattern was based on a room with a cool pattern on the floor; I think it might have been an air conditioning equipment room.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.37.159 (talk) 17:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  characters and influences 

message: I believe you've got some issues here. As I recall, the Stair is on Kolvir's eastern (seaward) side, the exact opposite of how your article presently describes it. I believe that the stair is described as being on the mountain's "eastern" face in Nine Princes in Amber, and in the Merlin story arc, Merlin and Coral descend the stairs to arrive on the beach and explore some sea caves.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 (talk) 21:50, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Geography of Amber 

message: Your description of the stories are full of spoilers. At the minimum, you should warn readers of this; preferably, the text should be re-written to remove the worst offenders.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 (talk) 21:37, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoilers 

message: Per the discussion at Talk:The Pattern (The Chronicles of Amber)#Notability, I don't believe those two topics have stand-alone notility, but there is some content that could be merged here (literary analysis, etc.). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently my favorite solution would be a merge of those two topics with each other. Several secondary sources have to say something about those two in comparison. What we already have as sourced analysis seems to me a bit much for our article here. And I think taking everything together would fulfill the amout requirement of WP:WHYN, that we can write "a whole article, rather than half a paragraph or a definition of that topic". Complemented by a reasonable explanation and plot-summary section, of course. Daranios (talk) 18:12, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

text: * As for a draft, nope, sorry, too much on my plate to take this project on myself. What it could look like: Taking the two concepts and their interrelation together. Either by using the section we have here in the article and expanding it by some points and sourced sections from the individual articles. Or the other way round, putting the two articles together and shortening the material, and using pieces from our section here to explain their interrelation. Then add/combine what's in the respective reception sections. Add some more points from the secondary sources used in those reception sections which are not yet present. I'd planned to do a little more of the latter when I get around to it. Daranios (talk) 15:39, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: *About notability: I've just realized that this 10-page essay is to large extent about the Pattern:  "Marelle" (hopscotch) seems to have been used in the French translation as the name for the pattern, an this appears throughout the essay. This also contains one longish paragraph on p. 31 comparing the Patten and the Logrus. This should go a long way towards establishing notability for the Pattern or the Pattern + the Logrus. Daranios (talk) 20:21, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from [[The Pattern (The Chronicles of Amber)]] and [[The Logrus]]