Talk:Christianity in the Ottoman Empire

message: Haters of the muslim faith will fabricate the below statements of persecution done by the ottoman empire against christians while the truth is that the ottomans from the very beginning were very tolerant with christians that in some cases christians helped the ottomans take over territories to get rid of the tyranny the faced under the byzantine empire. in the later stages of the ottoman empire there were several injustices done against some ethnicities like the devrisme law and especially armenians in light of certain events of betrayal and conspiracy against the ottoman empire. until this date the ottoman empire in its golden day was the best empire to rule all religions in justice and relative harmony.    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.245.7.198 (talk) 09:30, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joke 

message: This article seems to start of a little more like a paragraph I'd expect to be further down in the article. Perhaps providing a short summery before the main part of the article would help. ~ Falls End (T, C) 16:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beginning 

message: This article states that "the Ottoman Empire was tolerant towards its non-Muslim subjects and it did not attempt to forcibly convert many of them to Islam." This whole thing strikes me like complete WP:OR, so I'd like that bit cited by independent verifiable and reliable sources please. I see there are  tags in the second heading (probably sitting there for ages). The article is currently tagged, and as a next step I'll move for WP:AfD. NikoSilver 23:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the added info and sources, I think the intro is NPOV now. I agree to the tag's removal. Please deal with the rest of unsourced statements. NikoSilver 00:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ummm, Ottoman Reference, actually that second quote is supportive. It says that "oppressive measures ... [were] a deviation from generally established practice". It shouldn't be listed under "Imperfections of tolerance". NikoSilver 00:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagged 

message: I removed the 'see also' from the sections. I do not see what they have to do with this article... Inquisition is about heresies among the Christian denominations; Witch-hunt was a mostly Catholic practice, related with paganism and affected certain individuals, not population groups. Mission (Christian) refers to colonianism of the New World, and in any case this article is not talking about Muslim missionaries (or anything similar) to justify the inclusion. I am not saying that the Christians were saint or did nothing to be blamed for, but i would like to see links for articles that at least have a mere connection with this one. e.g. a possible article 'State and Religion in the Holy Roman Empire' or 'Status of the Muslims in 11th century Spain'. Hectorian 16:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also 

message: OK, OttomanReference, u are moving way too fast! i do not want to cause a revert war, thus i will say here with what i disagree, and what i consider bias and unsourced statements:
* Ottoman Empire, as a state, was against the anarchy: no state is in favour of anarchy (in fact, these terms are incompatible!).
* There was no instance of Ottoman Sultan interfering with how Christians perceive (perform) their religious activities and personal issues: noone expected the sultan himself to ban baptisms in a specific church or to declare a transfer of property from a specific person as invalid (we are talking about those who did "in the name of the sultan")
* To understand the issues of Religious persecution; it is important to recognize the base point, or compare the policies from the general practice of its time. There is no cases of Inquisition and Witch-hunt under Ottoman Empire. Inquisition and Witch-hunt had never been policy of Ottoman Empire: had there been anything similar, we would be talking about inter-muslim issues. do not compare denominations with religions. the comparison is off, and in fact without base.
* In the past, Christian missionaries sometimes worked hand-in-hand with colonialism, for example during European colonization of the Americas, Africa, and Asia: again, why do u compare Islam with Christianity? the article is about the religious affairs of the Ottoman Empire, not about the a Muslim vs a Christian empire, and which was more tolerant.
* Regarding "conversion accompanied by privileges"; there was no set of Christian converted-Muslim rules or Christian converted-Muslim privileges, which could be classified as a "specific policy for conversion": huh? the one tenth tax applied only to christians... the blood tax was for the most time affecting only the christian subjects... Being exluded by these, was a huge privillege!
* Civil engineering: why are u "hiding" the content under such a title? couldn't the cities be build (quality reassurances and architecture (structural integrity, social needs, etc) and shaped, with these churches been still operating, instead of been converted to mosques and armouries? do not present it as if it was a policy to move ahead... it was a policy of conversion... Hectorian 17:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My $0.02: This article seems to be trying to form a POV in the reader. Your edits about the imperfections in the tolerance of the OE are one example, these are another. Your earlier edits were trying to (IMHO) show that the OE was not a paradise. These edits are trying to show (again, IMHO) that in comparison to what was being done minorities at other countries of the time, it was. Who cares? I guess we all do, which is why we are writing about these things, but we really should try to stay away from both extremes. If this continues, I suggest you discuss it in the Greek and Turkish wikipedians cooperation board, because I think the underlying issue is not the facts but the way we choose to look at the facts. Regards, --Free smyrnan 17:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Anyway, i made my edits and sourced them after i was requested. when OttomanReference is done with his edits, i will add the requests for facts and i expect the same thing to happen. I know that i may be influenced a lot from by Greek background, but i am willing to see the other POV as well. Thanks for the advice; if things will not work out, i will try to draw some attention in the Greek and Turkish wikipedians cooperation board. Cheers Hectorian 18:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: Okay... how about a paragraph or so, near the beginning, stating that the main religion (or however you want to put it) of the empire is Islam - since the page seems like it should be about the religions of the Ottoman Empire? It seems pretty far down the page before Islam itself is mentioned for the first time, as if it's assumed knowledge... -- Amorette 02:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islam 

message: The second paragraph of this article is in the complete wrong style, so I think it should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rcduggan (talk • contribs) 22:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second Paragraph 

message: How very very bizarre. I clicked on Ottoman law hoping to see if there is an entry on the Ottoman Land Law of 1858, and found that it redirects to Religion in the Ottoman Empire? The laws of the Tanzimat had little to do with religion! LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 18:34, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ottoman law redirects here? 

message: I would think it should go without saying that "Religion in the Ottoman Empire" is an inappopriate title for an article that does not discuss the Empire's main religion. Perhaps "Christianity and Judaism in the Ottoman Empire" is more appropriate? --Mcorazao (talk) 19:41, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: Prior to the start of my ongoing overhaul, in one place, it stated "Voluntary conversion to Islam was greeted by the Ottoman authorities, accompanied by privileges." However, this is contradicted by "Regarding 'conversion accompanied by privileges'; a social group or millet such as 'Christian converted-Muslim rules' or 'Christian converted-Muslim privileges', which could be applied to a 'specific policy for conversion' did not exist." Which is it? Clarityfiend (talk) 07:21, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Privileges on conversion? 

message: Looking at the article it should have been called "Christianity in the Ottoman Empire"; and a seperate article written for "Judaism in the Ottoman Empire" Hugo999 (talk) 12:40, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is already a History of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire. I proposed moving whatever content about Judaism from this article to that one and moving this article to "Christianity in the Ottoman Empire".--Cattus talk 00:24, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Page has been moved. There was only a small amount of jewish content. What duplicated History of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire I removed and the rest was left since it was only a passing mention that made more sense if left than if removed. Op47 (talk) 22:04, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split 

message: Really? This article is extremely bias, but may I ask what reference there is for this statement? If none is forthcoming I will delete that piece asap. thanks. Reaper7 (talk) 19:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: What makes you think the Byzantine Empire was religiously tolerant? The article is not making the comparison to the Byzantine Empire, but if your question is specifically about the Byzantine Empire then the Armenian Church was only restored to Istanbul after the fall of Constantinople. They were previously persecuted as heretics. The comparison to the Byzantine Empire should be removed, but if that is the issue, I think you placed the tag in the wrong place. Please clarify which statement you want a source for. Seraphim System (talk) 00:14, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The above comment is actually a response to a tag placed today, unfortunately I see now that it was added without opening a discussion. I will leave the tag in place in case anyone wants to comment, as the section it was added to could use some work. Seraphim System (talk) 00:51, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ottoman Empire more religiously tolerant than the Byzantine Empire?? 

message: I think the current article is too largely focused on the golden age of the Ottoman Empire. It's important that it talk a little more about the missionaries, biblical archaeologists, and other busybodies who started poking around the empire in the mid and late 19th century. It certainly occurred and it would be good to have a base pointing out the main players, theaters, andif anynotable successes or failures. — LlywelynII 03:46, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Points for article expansion