Talk:Makybe Diva

message: This article badly needs wikification and to conform to standard layout. I'm inserting the wikify tag. --K. 23:55, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikification

message: I feel the article needs some major work commited to it aswell as a major expansion due to the hourse now being regarded as a sporting icon in australia,
--Munnday 05:42, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion 

message: Anyone got a photo we can use???
Done(dark horse 02:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright free photo 

message: Isn't this meant to be objective? These are not:
"Makybe Diva stamped herself as the champion stayer of the modern era."
- "The"? After only the 2nd Cup?
"She proceeded to take Sydney's most important WFA race, The BMW, with a sensational last-to-first burst."
Yes, but it was arguably a rather weak race. Grand Armee had no form at 2400m. The horses behind him were not great.
"In driving rain the mare defeated one of the strongest Melbourne Cup fields in years,"
"strongest"?
" featuring multiple Irish St. Leger winner Vinnie Roe, Caulfield Cup winners Mummify and Elvstroem, highly regarded European stayer Mamool from the Godolphin stable, as well as the 2002 Melbourne Cup winner Media Puzzle. "The judge and jury 23:59, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because of stuff like you have mentioned, I added --HamedogTalk|@ 13:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I really can't agree with the above comments. The fact that the horse won the Cox and three Melbourne Cups speaks for itself. Not many would dispute, say Kingston Town being named as an "Australian Sporting Icon". Yet he did not win even one Melbourne Cup. The same applies to Tulloch. Makybe Diva simply captured the heart of the nation. I know people who were in Australia for a year, know absolutely nothing about racing, and yet are very familiar with the Diva's exploits. To my mind, she certainly deserves all the accolades in this article. It is not biassed. Wallie 23:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You strayed off the point Wallie, which was well made by the previous poster. Something happened, it doesn't happen in all cases, and to not mention it is censoring history. A factual report is all that is needed. Moriori 03:04, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Objective? 

message: Reading material across the web and particularly in the marketing/merchandising side of the Diva, it appears that many people believe the track watering controversy is frivolous and overblown. Curiously, however, many of these are the exact same people elevating the Diva to a level with Phar Lap. I am skeptical.
Dare to compare: Phar Lap crossed the Pacific Ocean and beat a class American field, running on a dirt track for the first time in his career, and winning by going away after trailing the field by seven lengths. The owner of Phar Lap did not expect the best horses in America to come down and beat him on his track; he went up there and beat them on theirs.
The same can hardly be said of Makybe Diva. Her handlers were extorting the VRC and threatening not to run her unless they gave her preferential treatment and watered their track. The VRC complied, and then made up a fictitious story about it being normal proceedure, which was later exposed as a phony story.
I love the Diva. But facts are facts, and opinions are opinions; and as long as people continue to express the opinion that the Diva is another Phar Lap, then facts need to be examined, and for that reason alone the "track watering" debacle should be a permanent sticky.
Besides, what we are talking about here is a handicap race. The Melbourne Cup is a terrific race, the one that stops the nation. But champions are decided at WFA, not handicaps. Phar Lap destroyed a top-class American field, in their backyard, at a championship distance, running on a dirt surface for the first time, and doing it at WFA. He was an Australian AND an American champion. The Diva's accomplishment is one for the ages, but it does not rise to the level of Phar Lap. If anything, the Diva should be compared with Sunline, who won one more Cox Plate than the Diva, and that race is considered the true championship of Australasia. I can't say which girl is better; those two sheilas are the two greatest mares to race in Australia in the past 25 years, and perhaps of all time.
: The facts speak for themselves. Old timers overblow a horse's reputation over the years. When I was younger all you ever heard about was Gloaming and Nightmarch. Later, it was Phar Lap. Makybe Diva has done far more than these animals put together, and is now up there with the likes of Secretariat, Man O' War and Nijinsky. Wallie 09:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right on.  It's also worth remembering that a lot of Phar Lap's races had less than 10 starters (some as few as 5 or 6).
Keir59.167.51.240 (talk) 09:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "watering" controversy 

message: Can you please be careful with your additions? It is extremely obvious you're a huge fan of the Diva. But that's not the idea - encyclopedias are meant to be objective. Yes, MD ran well in Sydney in Autumn 2004 (it's hard to disagree) but moreso I think her form improved up there. As for the Sydney Cup being her main goal...well, do you have proof? Why aim at a 700k race which is ok on the CV when the BMW is worth 2 million, is wfa and puts the horse in HOY contention? Even then if a  MC-wining BMW fancy pulls up well from the BMW it could continue on to the Sydney Cup. (I suspect this is what happened.)  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The judge and jury (talk • contribs). 
--The judge and jury 07:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  General 

message: Surely that's not too hard to do?--The judge and jury 08:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  When are people going to stop vandalising this talk page?

message: The horse is not "Australian". She is a British-bred racehorse. Wallie (talk) 08:01, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is another disruptive edit by Wallie, who is on an anti-Australia crusade. Look in the info box. It shows the country of foaling as Great Britain. There is no dispute here except in your mind.Cuddy Wifter (talk) 22:51, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not true. I am definitely not on an anti-Australian crusade. The horse was foaled in Britain, and this should be pointed out in the first sentence, as it is in nearly all other articles related to horses. By calling the horse Australian to my mind is POV. I have placed a tag. This is a legitimate dispute over supposed bias. Please do not revert item. Wallie (talk) 11:37, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Where a horse is foaled is not why it is notable, so why does it need to be in the lead paragraph? Please provide a citation which states that Makybe Diva is anything other than an Australian horse. Cuddy Wifter (talk) 23:18, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Cuddy Wifter. There has to be a format. Nearly every horse article starts out saying where it was foaled and the date. Any professional organization gets it right. For example, the Australian Racing Museum.  To call the horse "Australian" is highly POV, and wrong. When someone challenges this, you say "This is another disruptive edit by Wallie, who is on an anti-Australia crusade.". Please try to be professional. Thank you. Wallie (talk) 08:46, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

text: You have no right to impose any format on articles without proper discussion. The articles from the Australian Racing Museum appear to vary in format from horse to horse anyway. You can't just cherry pick one that is to your liking. Makybe Diva belongs to the category of Australian racehorses. It is of course correct that she was bred in the UK, and that fact is duly pointed out in the article. It is interesting that a Kiwi editor should object, especially as Makybe Diva was also widely reported as being an Australian racehorse by the popular press in NZ. I’ve yet to see any objection from UK editors. Indeed, Makybe Diva does not appear to be included in the category of British racehorses. This article should be geared towards the average layperson, not aficionados of horseracing. For those with a special interest in horse bloodlines or pedigree there are other online references which are far superior to what Wikipedia can offer. I could say a little more about the reasons that have motivated this one particular editor to embark on his particular path of revisions, Makybe Diva is certainly not the only example, but I shall hold back on that for the present. Ernest the Sheep (talk) 21:06, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. I have corrected it. The horse is now in the cateogory you mentioned. Wallie (talk) 09:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: LoL Ernest the Sheep (talk) 10:49, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality and Unsourced

message: Once again, there has been a blanket revert. Please do not do this. Thanks. Wallie (talk) 16:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What! Another one, Ernest. :) Please discuss things one at a time. Wallie (talk) 13:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to respond to my above comment. Ernest the Sheep (talk) 19:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Blanket reverts

message: These sentences in the article "The filly was offered for sale at the December 2000 Tattersall's sales but did not make the reserve. Called Makybe Diva, the filly remained at Britton House Stud until August of 2000, when she and Tugela were shipped to Australia" may contain one or more errors because it doesn't make sense that she would have been offered for sale, in Britain, in "December 2000" if she had already been shipped to Australia in "August of 2000"
: Good point. I found this  reference to the 1999 Tatts Newmarket foal sale, which seems more logical. Cuddy Wifter (talk) 05:51, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prior to racing 

message: Can someone please either let me know what the go is with a number of the race distances being espressed in feet or just delete them?  I haven't found any other horse racing pages on Wikipedia that express distances in feet, and it just looks stupid.Pittsburghpenguin (talk) 12:17, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distances in feet 

message: I believe there may be one or more errors in these sentences: "Makybe Diva carried 58 kg during the record third Melbourne Cup, 2.5 kg above the standard weight-for-age scale. The last horse to carry more than weight-for-age and win was Rain Lover, who was 2 kg over when he won his second cup in 1969, with 60.5 kg."  This is a complex area because the weight-for-age scale has undergone a number of changes over the years, especially in the last few years.  I have also found it as good as impossible to find copies of the scale, for the different eras, on the web.  Nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised to find that weight-for-age for five-year-old stallion, as Rain Lover was in 1969, at two miles may have been the equivalent of 59.5 kilograms, which would make the weight he carried one kilogram, rather than two, above the scale.  As to Makybe Diva, could somebody please confirm what weight-for-age was for a seven-year-old mare over 3,200 metres in 2005? Pittsburghpenguin (talk) 12:53, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Miller's Guide shows weight-for-age for 5 year old+ over 3200 metres in November 2005 to be 58.5 kg (less mares allowance of 2.5 kg) = 56.0 kg. There is no allowance for horses foaled in the northern hemisphere which are 5 years old and upwards. The weight-for-age scale shown at Australian Rules of Racing - Weight for Age Scale - see AR.104 was amended on Jan 1 2007. Cuddy Wifter (talk) 04:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that.  It would appear, then, that the article should read that she carried two kilos (rather than 2.5) above weight-for-age, but I am still unconvinced that the Rain Lover reference is correct because I know that from, 1977, at least, weight-for-age for a five-year-old stallion was 59.5 kilos, so I would be surprised if he was two kilos over weight-for-age when he won Pittsburghpenguin (talk) 08:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I found an old scale for 1969 which shows WFA for a 5 year old at 2 miles in November to be 9 st 5 lbs or 59.5kg. So Rain Lover did carry one kilo above WFA. Cuddy Wifter (talk) 21:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - have updated the article accordingly Pittsburghpenguin (talk) 10:58, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Weight carried relative to the weight-for-age scale (Third Cup)

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Makybe Diva. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110714174233/http://makybe-diva-news.newslib.com/story/2353-3065966/ to http://makybe-diva-news.newslib.com/story/2353-3065966/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080720014337/http://sahof.org.au/awards/spiritOfSportAward/memberProfile/index.php?spiritAwardID=1 to http://www.sahof.org.au/awards/spiritOfSportAward/memberProfile/index.php?spiritAwardID=1
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:34, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: These 2 sentences would make much more sense with a “who” (instead of “that”);
:The last horse to carry more than weight-for-age and win was Rain Lover, that was 1 kg over when he won his second cup in 1969, with 60.5 kg. Makybe Diva, that broke her own weight-carrying record for a mare of 55.5 kg, which she set in 2004, was the highest-weighted winner of the Cup since Think Big won his second Melbourne Cup with 58.5 kg in 1975. 
Is there a reason a horse can’t be a “who”?  If so, consider dividing each sentence as;
:The last horse to carry more than weight-for-age and win was Rain Lover. He was 1 kg over when he won his second cup in 1969, with 60.5 kg. In 2005, Makybe Diva broke her own weight-carrying record for a mare of 55.5 kg, which she set in 2004. She was the highest-weighted winner of the Cup since Think Big won his second Melbourne Cup with 58.5 kg in 1975.MBG02 (talk) 00:48, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. Certainly in UK & Ireland we would always use "who". I wonder if this is a feature of Australian English. Tigerboy1966  05:44, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked some other Aussie horses, and they get a “who”; and found the “that” author was an IP address in May 2014; so looks (to me) like it was changed to see if it would remain. The next edit was stupid too, and when reverted, returned to the (stupid) “that” version. MBG02 (talk) 08:50, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who. That.