Talk:Ceremonial mace

message: It says in the history that maces went out with heavy armour.. i thought  that they were still in use in WWI trenches....  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.194.59 (talk) 13:35, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: modern mace 

message: :Taken from the old Cleanup entry…Archived by HopeSeekr of xMule (Talk) 15:16, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old Cleanup Archive 

message: Exhibition - Medieval Maces: Power and Ceremony (University of St Andrews), History of the Mace (Parliament Of Singapore). Hope this might help. Komitsuki (talk) 12:45, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The Sergeant at Arms & Mace, The Mace. Komitsuki (talk) 14:23, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  More info 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: Maybe the British and French ceremonial maces are an independent evolution of the idea, but they had ample contact with Byzantium, so this seems doubtful. And at very least maces evolved beyond practical tools to become symbolic of royal authority and power in ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt, long before the "origin" of this symbolism in England and France.
As noted in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stela_of_Ashurnasirpal_II, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stela_of_Shamshi-Adad_V, http://museum.imj.org.il/imagine/galleries/viewItemE.asp?case=9&itemNum=198926 , http://www.ucl.ac.uk/sargon/downloads/finkel_reade_za86_1996.pdf (p. 5), http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=367057&partId=1 , etc.
Byzantine ceremonial mace and spread of ceremonial maces to cultures influenced by Byzantium: 
https://books.google.com/books?id=KamgCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq=byzantine+ceremonial+mace&source=bl&ots=_449XPsqoR&sig=mn8lFBzZslqlnYApQNDVNDxg1UU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUyOqM4f7aAhWlrVkKHeRiD48Q6AEIXjAK#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://amm.sanok.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/VII.1_DAmato.pdf (Author on p. 25 discusses Byzantine "command maces," stating that the mace as a symbol of authority originated "ancient times in the East" and passed from the East to the Byzantines and via them to the West.)
Inclined to modify the section ascribing invention of the ceremonial mace to the British and French, unless anyone objects. I'm aware that there are British published sources ascribing the invention to themselves, so I'm thinking it is more appropriate to qualify the article's current claims than to delete them.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 40.138.155.2 (talk) 22:52, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I have made edits in general line with the above, except that I ended up omitting any suggestion that the English/French ceremonial maces were the first or that they were an independent invention. Various sources that I consulted made that seem totally implausible, and it seemed if I left it in as an alternate interpretation the article would end up implying that the parliamentary history sources are full of it (not my intent). So I just split that section into subsections by era and left the suggestion, backed by sources, that the later ceremonial maces were likely influenced by earlier ones rather than invented ex nihilo.  Aithiopika (talk) 02:36, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins in England and France? What about Mesopotamia? Egypt? Byzantium?