Talk:William Bates (physician)

message: I can't see Bates listed on the American Ophthalmological Society membership list [].  Was he actually an Ophthalmologist?  I gather that he did some eye surgery but I'm not sure that he is officially an Ophthalmologist.--Vannin (talk) 01:56, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As noted on the Bates method talk page, Elwin Marg in his article does refer to Bates as an ophthalmologist. It is possible, even likely, that Bates' credentials were revoked at some point, but I haven't found anything on that specifically. PSWG1920 (talk) 02:18, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Rather than his qualifications being revoked, I suspect he never had them in the first place.  The similar case would be Freud, often viewed as a Psychiatrist, but in fact the specialty of Psychiatry did not exist at that time, so the article on Freud refers to him as a Physician.  The American Ophthalmological Society was started in 1864, so it would have been possible for Bates to have joined it, but the records show that he was not a member.  In 1917, the American Board of Ophthalmology had its first board exams, but by this time Bates was already well on the outside of the profession and he had had his fugue state and run off to London and then disappeared, so I doubt he was writing exams and getting board certified at that point.  I suspect that it has been assumed that Bates was an ophthalmologist, partly because he was working in a hospital doing eye surgery (just as Freud was doing psychiatric treatments) but that does not make either one specialists until the specialty is formally established.  The point being, of course, that any physician would be allowed to do put up a shingle and practice psychiatry or do eye surgery as they chose  --Vannin (talk) 16:21, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if this helps, but here is something from right after he disappeared which refers to him as an ophthalmologist. PSWG1920 (talk) 16:34, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, I cannot get that book very easily.  He may well have described himself as an Ophthalmologist, although in his magazine articles he seemed to talk about Ophthalmology as if he was an outsider and not as somebody who belonged.  The bottom line is that he does not show up in the American Ophthalmological Society list, which is the organization that seemed to start the specialty in the US.  So the evidence seems to be that he was not an Ophthalmologist, no organization "blessed" his credentials.--Vannin (talk) 22:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bates as an Ophthalmologist

message: This could become quite an interesting biographical article, if we can find quality, independent, reasonably accessible secondary sources which discuss Bates apart from his method. I'll begin listing what I find.
* Refractive Eye Surgery, 2001. As discussed above, this was previously referenced in the article but was removed. Let's figure out how to properly use it. 
PSWG1920 (talk) 22:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

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thread_title: File:W.H.BATES.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Such links are even less appropriate in this article. Can we keep initial discussions at Talk:Bates_method#Links_to_publications for now until we get the coi problems out of the way, as well as get a general agreement on what might be appropriate where? --Ronz (talk) 15:50, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Links to publications

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I know there is an article on the Bates method, but William Bates was basically a quack. There are critical sources on him such as The Sight Saver by C. J. Gerling,  and Lydia Kang, Nate Pedersen, Quackery: A Brief History of the Worst Ways to Cure Everything, p. 324. I believe this article should be expanded with various critical sources. Skeptic from Britain (talk) 21:42, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticisms should be mentioned

message: I've expanded the text on it a little. It would be nice if a better chronological breakdown of his life could be achieved, as his disappearance is a truly peculiar case! Sadly searches are overwhelmed with discussion of the Bates Method and eye exercises. 176.251.175.52 (talk) 14:58, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that Bates disappeared in 1902.  Your edit said 1930. Belteshazzar (talk) 17:07, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

text: I saw the incorrect date and the use of mentalfloss.com as a reference, so removed it. The NYTimes and Lansing State Journal refs should be fine to use, but it doesn't appear mentalfloss is generally reliable. --Hipal (talk) 21:21, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Apologies about the typo on the date, that was an error on my part. The use of mentalfloss as an additional source was to provide for a source which gave the contents of the letter in written form clearly visible, and is intended to be more supplementary in that sense. I've now fixed the date. Looking if I can find a more ideal source than mentalfloss for the contents of the letter. 176.251.175.52 (talk) 17:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

text:  It appears that mentalfloss is using this book as possibly the source for the contents of the letter, however I can't buy the book at the moment and cannot find a PDF of it to look at it - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0118ZUF3W 176.251.175.52 (talk) 17:23, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. It would be nice to have references other than those contemporary with the events they describe, especially for historical context and modern language. The book by Jay Robert Nash looks fine to use. --Hipal (talk) 18:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  His disappearance