Talk:White Christmas (song)

message: "Also atheists also happen to dislike the song due to its relation to Christianity."
Is this really neccessary?  Could it not be said about anything Christmas related, Christmas is based in Christianity I do believe.  I suggest this be removed, it just seems to not belong in such a reference as wikipedia.  If we could find a verifiable quote, specifically about 'White Christmas', MAYBE it could remain.  It is poorly written and reads like gossip. 
Or we could add such disclaimers to all articles: "'The Star-Spangled Banner' is disliked by North Koreans due to its relation to the United States."  Seems silly, but that is what the line in the article sounds like to me. 
--BarenakedKevin 20:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I always thought Jews and atheists liked the song because it's NOT Christian.  There you go! Santamoly (talk) 05:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Atheist dislike

message: Was not this song written on an anniversary of his son's death? His son died on a Christmas day. Cema 01:42, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The song may be about Christmas, but that's no guarantee that the song was written on Christmas Day. -- Ventura 20:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Timing

message: I just removed the lyrics from the article.  Irving Berlin has not been dead long enough for the US copyright to have expired.  The lyrics should not be restored until we can document permission from the copyright holders.  -- Ventura 20:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never understood a position like yours on items like this since the lyrics are freely available at hundreds of websites. And if anyone needs to assert control they can simply remove them from WP - just as you have done. The objective of copyright is to maintain PUBLIC access to creative works, not to restrict access as if the lyrics were private property. The creators are granted control for a limited time, but the lyrics actually belong to the world. Santamoly (talk) 05:57, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Then you understand practically nothing about copyright or intellectual property, Santamoly. Just because a lot of people steal doesn't mean that it's right to steal, contrary to what the Internet Generation would like to believe. After all, without theft, their smartphones would be SO much less worthwhile! 67.180.19.160 (talk) 16:42, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Lyrics

message: On November 26, user Jeff Fries removed the Trivia section with the fact "Irving Berlin was Jewish," stating that this information is already included in the Irving Berlin article.  There are innumerable facts repeated between articles on Wikipedia, and this is in many cases appropriate.  It is quite noteworthy that a Christmas song of such prominence was written by a Jew, and this is a fact which a reader should be able to glean from Wikipedia without navigating to the Irving Berlin Article. --Andy M. 02:00, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I recommend working that observation into the main article. As it is, it's a bluntly-worded tidbit tacked awkwardly onto the bottom. It looks and feels out of place. Unless you can fit the noteworthiness of a jewish person's writing a popular Christmas song organically into the rest of the piece, then someone else is just going to come along and remove it. --Jeff Fries 09:24, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I incorporated the fact into the article and removed the "trivia" section. Berlin apparently struggled with writing a Christmas song, the first reason being that he didn't celebrate Christmas, the second (according to a book written on the song) that he lost his infant son in December. I thought it was worth noting at least that the first approach he tried was more of a parody--a Hollywood type who has everything but still dreams about snow. This Guardian newspaper article has more about the book and the story. Lindmere 16:26, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice addition, thanks Lindmere. --Andy M. 01:17, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: By chance, I heard the full version recently at a choral recital. The first verse does give it a much more light-hearted feel, and it was interesting to hear it performed. As usual, though, Berlin's instincts were golden. Lindmere 22:23, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: any truth to the story about berlin being inspired by the story of a blind filipino-american boxer named felix destrito(sp?)?  he tried to sell his dog queenie to pay for his child's medicine... the proceeds of the song payed for the treatment, he didn't have to sell the dog...
No, not in regarding this song. He wrote this song because a movie he was working on (Holiday Inn required a song for every holiday. 
--Sicamous 15:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: boxer

message: That (enormous) list needs to be put into some sort of order, preferably alphabetical or chronological. Any comments or protestations? 64.90.198.6 00:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it needs to be gutted or removed. I could add n Christmas albums which have White Christmas that are not listed there . Really, it's been a staple of Xmas songs repertoire for decades, it's silly to list various performances, no one will read through it. Maybe a few particularly notable recordings can be listed (properly referenced), but otherwise it's just an indiscriminate list, and does not follow the wiki guidelines.--Boffob (talk) 06:18, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree there is no inclusion criteria and it has been covered thousands of times the list will just grow endlessly. 71.0.173.144 (talk) 21:24, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I cleaned up the list of "Other recordings" a couple of weeks ago by placing the songs in chronological order, but also added in all versions of the song that have charted on the various Billboard magazine music charts since the song was first recorded in 1942 (that is, that weren't already listed when I came upon the article).  I don't think this section should be removed at all.  Some recorded versions of the song hit the Billboard charts, but it's a small percentage of all the versions that have been recorded since 1942.  At minimum, the charted versions of "White Christmas" should be listed in this section. --Sliv812 (talk) 01:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Other recordings

message: I am calling foul on that number. It is uncited (I've added the tag) and sounds way too exaggerated. Even Guinness only gave it about 25-30 million. And it is no longer listed by them as Candle in the Wind passed it, and that only sold about 35 million. Where does that number come from??? 68.146.81.123 (talk) 20:43, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 400 MILLION???

message: Who earns on record sales of this record these days? Do earnings belong to the estate of the songwriter and/or the performer? Thanks. --TraceyR (talk) 16:18, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a college in northern New York State owns the rights to the song... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.26.40.217 (talk) 15:15, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Who earns the royalties?

message: I think mention should be made that "White Christmas" was the song played as the code for the evacuation of Saigon April 29-30 (Operation Frequent Wind) in the Vietnam War.  It's a fitting cap for the end of the Vietnam War.  I don't know if it was the Bing Crosby version.71.154.158.137 (talk) 19:29, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Operation Frequent Wind

message: Does anyone know the Solfege syllables for White Christmas?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.156.101.3 (talk) 02:27, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is the Solfege? 

message: There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:White Christmas - Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RM bot 03:00, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: Dear Wikipedia. This may seem trivial but . . . Regarding Bing Crosby's recordings of White Christmas, it has for so long been rumoured that the 1942 'take' was damaged, hence the need for the 1947 re-recording. The rumour has taken hold so well that it now appears in Wikipedia. How can I prove this to be wrong? The 1947 recording has appeared on all subsequent reissues and, as stated, is the one commonly heard nowadays. In fact the 1942 recording (DLA.3009) was still available on 78 rpm in Britain until the late-1950s - I can provide a scan of the label if requested, which bears a datable purchase tax code. When Decca issued the song on 45 rpm about October 1954, the label bore the same 1942 matrix no. but the track was substituted. Again, for evidence, I can provide a scan of the 1954 disc (with wide centre, which dates the pressing). For further evidence that the master didn't get worn out with so many pressings, I can show that the 1942 recording on the flipside was still available up to about 1967 on Brunswick. (When re-issued on MCA in Britain in 1969 a different song appeared on the flipside.) I would love to see this error amended and rumour scotched in such an authoritative body as Wikipedia! Thank you for your help.
81.151.177.72 (talk) 18:24, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  1942 recording 

message: In the "Bing Crosby version" section, it is pointed out that this song, as well as "God Bless America", was composed by a Jewish composer, to show how secular Christmas songs could be successful. I think it is more noteworthy to mention that Irving Berlin was in fact an agnostic, to show the supposed contradiction in him writing such songs. A Jew would not necessarily have a problem to write a song with the word "God" in it.
:But the word "Christmas" might be problematic for a Jew. It does have "Christ" right there in it. --Khajidha (talk) 11:38, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement about Irving Berlin's beliefs 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: , the citation that you added for  doesn't sound likely to support that sentence. Could you quote the sentence or paragraph from the article "Jubilee! Historic Columbia celebrates African-American heritage this weekend with singing, art, dance, drama" in The Times and Democrat (Aug 26, 2004) that supports the information in the article? Thanks! Schazjmd (talk) 21:20, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a URL for the article "Jubilee!" to the citation -- Lebrsm (talk) 14:40, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I just saw that, . Thanks, I had no luck finding the article online myself. And it's a good source for that claim. I appreciate you adding the citation.  Schazjmd (talk) 17:14, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation added, request quote 

message: The lede says ""White Christmas" is a 1942 Irving Berlin song ...", 
but the Bing Crosby Version section says "The first public performance of the song was by Bing Crosby, on his NBC radio show The Kraft Music Hall on Christmas Day, 1941...".
If the song was performed a year before it was written, that's a pretty neat trick, but probably requires some explanation in the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 00:44, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. Fixed it. Schazjmd (talk) 00:48, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date Inconsistency 

message: I wish someone with sufficient expertise would discuss the musicology of the song.  I seem to recall hearing that the song is written in a minor key, the key of mourning.  It is a bittersweet song as it recalls a time past and looks to a time present and a time future.  And isn't that so much of what Christmas is about, a time to reflect on people (loved ones) who have passed on and a time to enjoy the joys of children opening presents?  It is one of the most "metaphysical" songs of the season.  I might add, many songs of the Christmas season are tinged with profound sadness, 'I heard the bells on Christmas Eve" as one example.StevenTorrey (talk) 15:02, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musicology of the song 

message: plucked from another Bing book, Swinging on a Star: The War Years, 1940-1946
I collect sales numbers
It sold six hundred thousand discs in the closing months of 1942 (Bing’s royalties came to $298,946, $4.4 million in today’s dollars)
and two million as of 1944. 
Sales mounted year after year as it hit the number one spot again in 1945 and 1946, uniquely returning to the top thirty every year but one between its release and Christmas of 1962. By then, the record’s sales exceeded twenty-five million, the bestselling record ever. 
In 2007, the Guinness Book of Records updated the number to fifty million, seventeen million more than Elton John’s “Candle in the Wind,” in second place, and twenty million more than Bing’s “Silent Night,” in third. 
Guinness numbers do not include Crosby LPs and CDs (his 1949 album Merry Christmas has never been out of print); their numbers registered only singles of his 1942 original and an almost indistinguishable 1947 remake.
I want to add sentence with the early sales info, leave the 50 mil alone
Tillywilly17 (talk) 09:21, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  sales details