Talk:Robert Pickton/Archive 1

message: CBC News last night (09/08/06) broadcast a birthdate for Pickton of 24 Oct 1949. Wiki is using "(born 1950)". Was this a guess based on his published age? Or is there contradictory data out there? do we know where he is from (birth) originally?
:  I have added references which I believe answer the date and place of birth questions.  --71.35.135.106 06:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vital Stats

message: Wikipedia might consider altering its " Canadian Criminal" list at least until Robert Picton is convicted of charges against him.
Ot has Wikipedia also jumped onto the "let's not bother with formalities" crusade that appears to be sweeping western media?
--24.71.161.142 19:38, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: While I have sympathy with the general thrust of your comment, in this case the physical evidence is so overwhelming that the "Canadian Criminal" label is justified.  While one could conceivably argue that someone surrepticiously buried dozens of bodies on his property over a period of years without his knowledge, it is virtually impossible to construct a scenario in which he was unaware of the above-ground rotting corpses.  --Chris Thompson 10:35, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Don't take this wrong, Chris Thompson, but you're an idiot. In canada, you are presumed INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY. Not GUILTY  until PROVEN innocent. I have not checked that Canadian Criminal list, but I will do so, and make damn sure he isn't on there. I don't care if he is a murderer... he isn't conviced of any murder thus far, so he technically isn't a murderer "until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" Sod Aries 11:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey cool off, Sod aries, remember to assume good faith. Rest assured, there are lots of us keeping on top of the original research v/v categories etc. Please don't make the discussion uglier with rash comments. We're all here to build a better encyclopedia, let's get busy.Anchoress 12:32, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text: He shouldn't be in the category until he is convicted. We shall continue to be diligent about removing the category whenever it is added. Anchoress 08:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Different situation; "Jack the Ripper" is a pseudonym. The person behind the pseudonym was never convicted, and to this day nobody knows who it was, but the pseudonym is indisputably associated with a series of killings. Also, whoever Jack the Ripper was is dead now. Robert Pickton, on the other hand, is not a pseudonym. And he's still alive, which means WP:BLP pertains here. Bearcat 19:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criminal List 

message: Removed from article:
::"A special courthouse, complete with bulletproof glass, was built for this trial, supposedly to shield Pickton from any would-be assassins."
Now, I find this hard to believe.  Surely the Vancouver Courthouse already has such a room?  I recall hearing things about one being built for the Air India trial.  Anyone have a source for this?  Exploding Boy 20:45, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...Except the trial isn't taking place at the Vancouver Courthouse. As per the article, it's taking place at the BC Supreme Court Courthouse, in New Westminster.--Anchoress 01:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure about the bulletproof glass but I believe it is a new room. In fact I'm sure it is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.93.199.13 (talk) 04:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The bulletproof glass has been discussed on local TV news. Obviously, this should have a print citation available for it, but it isn't a dubious claim. --Steven Fisher 21:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dubious claim

message: I don't have time to read up on this and do an entry, but here's a link to an article in a reputable Canadian publication stating that a California resident received a letter that has been pretty much authenticated as at least being from the penitentiary where Pickton is being held. If someone doesn't do a writeup on it I'll add something later. Anchoress 14:02, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK I'm doing it now. Anchoress 03:05, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Letter purportedly from Willie Pickton 

message: I added a 'source' tag to the top and a 'fact' tag to a piece of info in the article. We have no sources identified for this article, none of the facts are tagged with citations. Anchoress 02:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source tags 

message: For your work on properly referencing the article; it looks a lot better. I'm removing the sources template I added in early September. Anchoress 23:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thank you to VederJuda 

message: The article states: "On February 22, Pickton was charged with two counts of first-degree murder. Three months later, three more charges were added, and shortly after that a sixth and seventh. In October, four more charges were added, bringing the total to fifteen, and again in May 2005, twelve more charges were added, bringing the total to 27."
7 + 4 makes 11, not 15. Something must have got dropped out. Winston.PL 20:39, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charges don't add up 

message: Is picktons defense lawyer a big enough figure to warrant his own article on the wikipedia...?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TotallyTempo (talk • contribs) 05:35, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. I can't answer it definitively, but from THIS ARTICLE, he does seem to be quite high profile (for Canada anyway). He defended Gillian Guess, a notorious Canadian juror/media whoretemporary celebrity, and he defended the Doukhobor(s) who got naked as a protest; both famous cases in Canada. Anchoress 05:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I'd say have a go at it.  Seems notable enough.  Worst-case, it gets deleted, although I doubt that would happen. (Nuggetboy) (talk) (contribs) 15:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I started (Peter Ritchie) and stubbed it. (Nuggetboy) (talk) (contribs) 16:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Peter ritchie

message: I removed the following from the article because the reference does not support it:
:self-made multi-millionaire
To explain further, the property, described in the article as having been assessed at $3.5 million, is owned by at least three people, is described in the article as not likely to be sold for as much as the assessment price, and may be encumbered (subject to mortgages or leins). Therefore, the reference cannot be used to describe Willy Pickton as a 'multi-millionaire'. Furthermore, the reference doesn't say anything about the term 'self-made' (which is POV anyway). Anchoress 05:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: User 24x, I see that you restored the part about Pickton being a multi-millionaire. If he is a multi-millionaire, and a reputable, unambiguous reference exists to state so, then we should include it (although I agree with the poster above about it possibly being inappropriate in the opening paragraph). BUT. 1. The reference provided in the article does not state that he is a multi-millionaire, and it doesn't state that the property is worth $7.1 million. 2. A statement of the value of the property (no matter what it is) is not sufficient to establish that Pickton is a multi-millionaire. And 3. Your reasoning (about the exploitiveness and economic injustice elements of his crimes) are valid but not encyclopedic. We can't include information about a subject's economic status in order to help the reader draw those types of conclusions, it's POV. Please do not re-insert the information without a clear, unambiguous source stating that Pickton is a multi-millionaire. Anchoress 16:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Anchoress. The value of the land just isn't relevant. Even if it was, that area of Port Coquitlam didn't really start to grow until the late 1990's. Before that, the property just wasn't worth enough to classify Pickton as a millionaire. The property is now liened by the province, fenced off, and all the buildings have been demolished.Lainyg 07:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Self-made millionaire" claim 

message: I believe that the note warning readers of the objectionable content is not appropriate for this article. It is neither policy nor normal practice to include such warnings, and my personal opinion is that it should be manifest that a comprehensive article about an accused serial murderer may contain upsetting content. And finally, it's not encyclopedic. It may be appropriate or even preferable in news media, but this is an encyclopedia, and IMO Pickton's article should contain content that can be justified as encyclopedic. Thoughts? Anchoress 13:06, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As the one who placed the original warning in the article, I thought I should chime in here. I do see your point and certainly agree this article should contain justifiably encyclopedic content. However, I think such warnings are appropriate in cases like this. This article can be found by anyone surfing through Wikipedia by clicking on random links, not just by searching Robert Pickton. I'm sure I don't have to give examples of how a person could unintentionally end up reading such a page...the case is morbidly intriguing. So for the sake of those who may come upon it by accident, a simple warning of gruesome details certainly isn't going to do any harm. It may save a more squeamish person from mental images they'd rather not have. BTW, the original warning was quite subdued to blend into the article. I didn't see any reason to call attention to it..others bolded it and added the word "VERY"...changes that I personally don't think are necessary.Lainyg 05:54, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lainyg, I'm not sure why you've restored the warning? It seems that several editors want it removed, and as far as I know there is no policy or guideline that would support its inclusion. Could you not let your fellow editors help decide how this goes? I'm also not sure why you said when you restored it, 'see talk page'? That comment usually indicates either an active discussion or a completed discussion in favour of the revert, neither of which is the case here. Anchoress 20:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Anchoress, Sorry if I gave the impression that I was just being stubborn. I actually added to this page intending to continue the discussion right after I made that change, but I can't for the life of me figure out where it got to. I addressed the "wikipedia is not censored" comment. IMHO, censorship is the removal of material some might find objectional, but warning of it is not. I'm more than open to input from fellow editors and my feeling is that several do want the warning. If you look through the history, you'll see that I was not the only one to contribute to it, it was embellished,(adjectives added, bolded type) then I toned it down and it remained that way for quite some time. Four editors have expressed a wish to have it removed (yourself and totallytempo, who commented here; 216.93.94.57, who removed it on April 29 with no comment; and Haemo, who removed it May 30, stating censorship as the reason). There are many more editors who left it in place as it was, which tells me that the majority either want it there, don't see it as inappropriate, or they just don't care. I'm sure you've been here longer than I have, so I'm certainly not going to pretend that I know better than you, but is it really doing any harm?Lainyg 23:02, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your reply, Lainyg. I don't have really strong feelings on this issue, but I am doing some investigating to figure out if there is a policy or guideline to shape our actions. From my POV, I question whether a) apathy = consensus, and b) whether 'it does no harm' is a high enough threshold for inclusion. I'm sure we'll work it out. Anchoress 23:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but Wikipedia is not censored. A warning of this type is not within policy, any of the Manual of Style, or any common practice. Edit wars have been started over this very same thing in the past. See the history of Gangrene for a recent one over a warning for some pictures. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 23:55, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but a warning is not censorship! Censorship is the removal of objectional material. No one here is saying that the material should be removed (as some did in the Gangrene discussion). There is absolutely nothing in the Manual of Style about this, either. It's merely a warning, much like the viewer warning that is aired before some television shows. Individuals can still make the choice whether or not they wish to continue reading.Lainyg 00:39, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Wow, good find! Fellow editors: the existence of this guideline indicates to me that there should be a disclaimer in the article only for the most compelling reasons, does anyone disagree? Do we have a compelling reason to go against this guideline? Anchoress 09:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appropriateness of reader warning 

message: Wikipedia:No disclaimers in articles.  81.104.175.145 09:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, good find! Fellow editors: the existence of this guideline indicates to me that there should be a disclaimer in the article only for the most compelling reasons, does anyone disagree? Do we have a compelling reason to go against this guideline? Anchoress 09:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: See the [[Wikipedia:No disclaimers in articles|No disclaimers]] guideline

message: where did the picture go for this article?
TotallyTempo 01:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture

message: There's going to be more breaking news about this trial in the coming weeks.  Anchoress (talk) 18:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Closing arguments November 19, 2007 

message: Remains of four more identified women found on farm, plus several unidentified. Anchoress (talk) 10:24, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This news confuses me, my highschool was beside this place, and my brother just graduated from it this past June, this is just based on observation but it seemed that the investigation on the farm wrapped up a very long time ago. Or? TotallyTempo (talk) 23:17, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you read the article thoroughly, you'll see that the discoveries took place during the trial, but they were withheld from publication in order not to affect the jury. Furthermore, forensic experts are still sifting through the evidence. Anchoress (talk) 02:15, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breaking news December 20 

message: Does the sentence to 25 years has been aggravated by more than one conviction even at second degree? 216.86.113.233 (talk) 19:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are asking whether the judge handed down a parole inegligibiliy period of 25 years because of the multiple convictions (as one of many factors), the answer is probably yes... However, the full text of the judge's reasons for sentence have not been re-printed yet, so a definite answer cannot be given until then. Singularity42 (talk) 13:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  time aggravated by more than one conviction even at second degree? 

message: News reports have been quoting from the official Notice of Appeal filed by Pickton's lawyers, as well as the Notice of Appeal filed by the crown, but are the documents online anywhere in pdf form? The Vancouver Sun has various pdfs relating to the case  but not the appeal documents as far as I can see. --Mathew5000 (talk) 07:55, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind, found them at CBC.ca: Crown’s Notice of Appeal Defence’s Notice of Appeal. --Mathew5000 (talk) 08:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  PDFs of appeal documents anywhere? 

message: How about a picture of him, I am certain there are lots available up on the public doman  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.223.10 (talk) 18:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pic request 

message: In this edit, someone from 75.27.146.195 changed the DOB in the article from 1949-10-26 to 1949-10-24. The Globe and Mail page cited  says October 26, so I am going to edit the article to reflect that, but this is the type of thing that newspapers sometimes get wrong. Mathew5000 (talk) 22:37, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pickton's date of birth -- unexplained change 

message: On 2010-08-04 stays were entered on the 20 remaining murder charges, lifting the publication ban. In the next few days, media are going to report many details of the case that have been censored for several years. In terms of this article, the question is where to put the newly published information: chronologically in the order it was published (i.e. 2010), or in the order it was originally disclosed in court (e.g. 2003). I would propose the latter. Mathew5000 (talk) 06:00, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been looking at some of the articles online now that discuss some of the evidence from the prelim inquiry and the voir dires at the trial which used to be under publication ban. Frankly a lot of it is disgusting. Here are relevant links:     Some summary of it should go into the article I guess but it's debatable and in any event I'm not going to attempt it. Mathew5000 (talk) 07:14, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The true reason behind the 2006 severance order is now being reported. Up to now it was kind of mysterious why those particular six victims were chosen to be tried in one grouping. The reason, according to The Globe and Mail , for those six victims there was physical evidence they were dead; for the other twenty victims, the defence would argue they were just "missing", and in order to secure a murder conviction the crown would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they were dead. Someone should fit this into the article. —Mathew5000 (talk) 07:40, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Many court decisions from the B.C. Supreme Court, and two from the Court of Appeal, have been released in the last week; find them by searching "Pickton" at http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/search_judgments.aspx —Mathew5000 (talk) 07:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Publication ban lifted 

message: This article needs major work, the te first paragraph goes straight into the police investigation??? Without any mention of the murders or what took place whatsoever?? Who wrote this ???? It seems more focused on the trial and the "proceedings" and the "investigation" then the fact the over 40 women were murdered. There should be more info on what happened to the victims, who was killed, and how he killed them. . before going into the investigation. The reader should know what's actually being investigated. 
--24.38.155.71 (talk) 05:34, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Be bold and fix it! ;) -- œ™ 10:14, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no section on the police inquiry into the incompetance that handled the case.142.35.234.201 (talk) 18:16, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

text: I second that, I was just wondering how "few" people were killed in Vancouver each year and this came across this, a big blemish on the city.  But anyways, reading it I couldn't even figure out when he started except looking through the disordered list of cases as opposed to victims -- but then by chance (or just by searching for years down the page -- to find the earliest year) in the references I see there are perhaps additional victims so the total might be 49...  Looking at source material in references may prove more informative than this article.24.86.97.151 (talk) 02:36, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  this article sucks 

message: The story of the the attempted murder of Wendy Lynn Eistetter is tod twice and the two versions need to be reconciled. They are mildly inconsistent and the second one does not acknowledge the first. 178.38.158.165 (talk) 23:23, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Story told twice 

message: A recent cracked article claims that Pickton was identified as the murdered in some of the Highway of Tears murders. I've never heard this before and I suspect this is an error, confusing him with Bobby Jack Fowler who did commit some of them. I'm assuming that Cracked screwed up, right? Oiyarbepsy (talk) 02:34, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Highway of Tears 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm new to wikipedia and I'm using this guy for my serial killer project. I can't cite here for obvious reasons and when I clicked on the 23 citation the page doesn't exist anymore. I've found the page on the Wayback machine and someone might want to update it  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sigil47 (talk • contribs) 06:55, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation 23 

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I have just modified 5 external links on Robert Pickton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 6 external links on Robert Pickton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150518094008/http://www.missingpeople.net/ottawa_rates_health_risk_from_hu.htm to http://www.missingpeople.net/ottawa_rates_health_risk_from_hu.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 11 external links on Robert Pickton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:19, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I updated the infobox again, as the number of 49 is not justified.  Pickton was accused of 27 murders and convicted of 6.  He is speculated to have perhaps been involved in more, but those are the only charges that were laid against him. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 20:54, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Victims" in infobox 

message: Question: why is Justice LeBel referred to later as “LeBel J”? Insafiresmemory (talk) 08:17, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomenclature re: Canadian judges/justices. 

message: ? i think someone is trolling by saying he played for the blue jays lol , played 12 game stink with the blue jays , i search baseball reference no sighting of his name in the majors or minor league says he played in 68 , blue jays entered the league in 1977 , at first i saw wow really but its all B.S. Whiskeywhiskers (talk) 07:51, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blue jays??? 

message: FYI Reference 17 goes to a dead page. Thanks 209.93.89.241 (talk) 21:27, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference 17 

message: This article says Robert Pickton was from Sarnia Ontario. Totally wrong..incorrect. He was from British Columbia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1970:59de:7600:451f:7b23:a621:e372 (talk) 14:54, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment about Picton's background 

message: Should there be some mention of the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women in this article? Pickton is mentioned as a notable case under its article -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_and_Murdered_Indigenous_Women . Seems that the article leaving this out is a miscarraige of justice in a way but I'm unsure if there would be a way to offically cite this. Glassofoj (talk) 20:11, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: ...The article mentions the provincial inquiry but I added some info to the lead and one sentence about the national inquiry in the body. Moxy🍁 01:14, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women