Talk:Michael Moore/Archive 5

message: Michael Moore has emphasised in numerous interviews that he does not consider himself a liberal.  In fact, he has said that he "hates liberals".  The description should removed from the aricle.
: Micharl Moore is not the only source on Michael Moore. There is a perception in America that he is liberal. If he denies it, that should be included in the article as well, but you can't avoid using the word at all when Michael Moore is concerned. VxP 18:25, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2006-11-14 Here he sights "A Liberal's pledge.... By Michael Moore" implying he considers himself a liberal.
Moore may not consider himself a liberal but he has clearly stated that he is "left-wing" in his politics. Anyone that doubts this needs to retire from Wikipedia immediately because they are not fit to edit here. I have re-added what WP:VERIFY and WP:CON had established before some devious vandal removed that info. Stop acting like children and don't remove established info. Jtpaladin 22:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: From reading Moore dislikes live being labelled a "liberal" because he regards most American liberal politicians with contempt accusing them of being either ineffective and/or excessively moderate and too willing to compromse on core values. Perhaps "radical liberal" would be an appropriate term ? 80.229.222.48 21:21, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  'liberal'? 

message: Towards the end of the biography section it states Moore is a practicing Catholic.  While Moore on numerous occasions has stated he had a Roman Catholic upbringing and education there is little evidence that he remains a practicing catholic indeed while he does in his books  pay tribute to some of the nuns at his school and Pope John Paul II for his condemnation of the Iraq war and the death penelty some of his writings are strongly critical of the policies of the Roman Catholic church particularly in relation to condom use, homosexuality, and abortion.
While this does not necessairly imply (although it does strongly suggest) that Moore is a lapsed Catholic the "citations" following the statement that he is still practicing do not give any indication either way. In any case the relevence of the statement is highly debatable therfore the sentence should be removed 80.229.222.48 10:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Practicing Catholic'? 

message: The article claims that Michael Moore was born in flint Michigan. But several sites show him as being born and raised in Davison Michigan.999mal 19:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth 

message: Disambig to "Boom! (song)" please. 83.67.217.254 19:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Boom! 

message: There already exists a Michael Moore 'Controversy and criticism' page  and 'Fahrenheit 9/11 controversy' page , so I see no reason to reduplicate many of the same links here under 'General criticism'. Hitchens, Hardy and Kopel's criticisms feature prominently on their respective pages, so I argue that these can go. smb1971 03:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will soon begin moving some of these critiques over to other pages, along with any 'defense articles' that relate. I will do it gradually so that if anyone raises an objection, we can talk things over. smb1971 15:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

text: The more I reflect on this section, the more I question its need. A 'controversy and criticism' page was started in late 2006 for precisely this kind of material, so I submit that ALL of the material be shuffled across. More specific criticisms can be moved to the various film pages. I can't find a single other entry on Wikipedia that has a section labeled "Defense articles". Let's have some feedback. smb1971 17:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism, criticism, criticism 

message: Michael Moore did not direct the film Lucky Numbers. Can this be corrected? --70.49.8.116 22:01, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lucky Numbers?? 

message: ==Critical documentary on Michael Moore==
Debbie Melnyck and Rick Caine document the (subtle?) manipulations of Michael Moore in their film Manufacturing Dissent: Uncovering Michael Moore, Canada, 2007, 74' (or 96').
I removed the above completely unnecessary paragraph for a couple of reasons. First, there are numerous films about and/or criticizing Moore. This one doesn't deserve a special mention or subheading for itself. If anything it belongs in the article Michael Moore controversies. Secondly, the assertion that the film documents "the (subtle?) manipulations of Michael Moore" is patently NPOV and ridiculous. Yeah, real subtle, AlexQuestionmark. Inoculatedcities 00:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed unnecessary subheading about critical documentary

message: Michael Moore uses words as a tool. A section with quotes from his works, and speeches, may be a good addition. Likely it will be a struggle to get a good balance, but I think it is needed.
--gunnerclark 20:34, 15 may 2007 (UTC)
:I think this would be troublesome. How do we differentiate between something he may have said in jest, during stand-up, and something altogether more serious? smb 21:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: add quote section

message: Please open a discussion regarding whether Mr.Moore would be considered in jeopardy under Espionage Act of 1917 and Sedition Act of 1918 laws as there seems to be quite a bit of scuttlebutt regarding Mr.Moore's works and whether or not they are seditious and if Mr.Moore is acting with sedition as defined by this law. This is not a jab, I would just like to see some intellegent consideration of this from people other than the "locker room lawyers". Thanks.
What are yout talking about? That'd be like arguing over whether a relationship was in violation of miscegenation laws. Both those acts were repealed a few years after they were enacted if I'm not mistaken. Brentt 00:48, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Wikipedia:OR. We don't do original research here. If there is a reputable source discussing whether Moore could be charged under some law, then we can mention it here, but we're not going to go off on our own tangents. VxP 15:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone who did attempt to charge Mr Moore under these statutes would probabably be doing him the biggest favour he could ask for in terms of publicity. Besides there is a little matter of the first amendment ! 80.229.222.48 20:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Espionage Act of 1917 and Sedition Act of 1918

message: The article suggests that this was an NBC programme but the TV Nation page says it was a BBC Two show. Can this be corrected? 212.140.167.99 18:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it was originally a BBC show, but was on NBC in the states for a while. I'm not sure if it was NBC exactly, but it was run on some American network, probably NBC. I don't know if that counts as being an "NBC show". And I'm not sure if some episodes were made specifically for NBC. (maybe analogous to how Da Ali G Show was a british Channel 4 show originally but became a HBO show)Brentt 19:48, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was originally made for the BBC TV because they were willing to show the series, as no US network would originally touch it (as described by Michael Moore in Stupid White Men. – Agendum 08:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Could a registered user add the fact that the show was made by the BBC to the article. And, possibly, the fact it was made by the BBC because American networks wouldn't make it (if people think this is relevant and it can be properly sourced- apparently in Stupid White Men).212.140.167.99 13:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Get me a source, and I'll be glad to ^demon[omg plz] 16:53, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

text: This page is semiprotected; any username more than a few days old can edit it. There is no need for administrator assistance to edit this page. — Carl (CBM · talk) 18:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: TV Nation

message: He's described in the first paragraph as a liberal who is against globalization? How is that liberal? Tri400 17:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Milton Friedman, in Capitalism and Freedom, in the 18th and 19th century liberalism "emphasized freedom as the ultimate goal ... It supported laissez faire at home [and] supported free trade abroad as a means of linking the nations of the world together peacefully and democratically ... Beginning in the late nineteenth century, and especially after 1930, the term liberalism became associated with a very different emphasis, particularly in economic policy. It came to be associated with a readiness to rely primarily on the state rather than on private voluntary arrangements to achieve objectives regarded as desirable. The catchwords became welfare and equality rather than freedom ... In the name of welfare and equality the twentieth century liberal has come to favor a revival of the policies of state intervention and paternalism against which classical liberalism fought.". So essentially these days, to Americans, liberal means protectionist and left-wing in an economic sense - both of which I am sure Michael is proud to be. See the talk page talk:liberalism for more than you would ever want to know about it. --Dilaudid 17:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think so. Turtlescrubber 21:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes i completely think so, considering that he support gun control, plus, his latest documentary Sicko is against private health cover. Tri400 15:40, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gun control and anti-private health care = Socialist?  Think there's a little more to it than that.--Koncorde 03:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

text:  His critics might describe him as socialist, but they would be using that word in a perjorative way, which is entirely inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. VxP 15:09, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Supporters of free trade nowadays are as likely (if not moreso) to be conservative. One problem with "Liberal"/"Conservative" labelling What was considered liberal 50 years ago may be regarded as conservative today and vice versa which results in paradoxes like "neoconservative" politicials espousing "neoliberal" economic policies 193.112.172.12 13:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many liberals are opposed to free trade with countries they deem to have inadequete labour standards and/or poor human rights policies. Similarly most pro-free trade conservatives usually make exceptions when it comes to countries like Cuba and North Korea. 80.229.222.48 20:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liberal who's against free-trade? 

message: I renamed Legal Trouble to Legal Investigation - Legal trouble sounds a bit colloquial, perjorative, and prejudges that there will be some action after the investigation. On the other hand I've seen reports that Moore smuggled his film out of America  in case the government took action against him - so maybe trouble should stay. Revert at will :) --Dilaudid 19:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Legal Trouble

message: According to multiple sources Moore claims he was intended to become co-person of the year with Mel Gibson - and was only turned down because Gibson backed out on the day it was intended to be announced, so instead President George W. Bush won it. , . Should this be added? --Dilaudid 19:54, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Time Co-Person of the Year?

message: Moore was born in Davison, Michigan, which is an independent municipality from the widely-attributed Flint (therefore, the information in the article and infobox is incorrect).  Sources: , , , .  --75.21.227.250 02:41, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Check the controversy page if you haven't seen it already. Turtlescrubber 03:54, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The other anon specifically stated "born in", not raised.  This is a separate issue than the one discussed on controversy.  --66.227.194.89 04:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthplace change 

message: Come on guys, could someone please add a better picture of Mr Moore? Perhaps this is an incorrect assumption, but it seems that whoever uploaded the current picture selected the worst one possible!!!
:It's a good composition free image.  There are probably better copyrighted ones, but your dissatisfaction may come from Mr. Moore's appearance himself.  --75.21.166.42 19:16, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I think that's just the way he looks in real life.  It is a good NPOV picture.  It captures his physical appearance.  It captures the appearance of his soul.  68.97.41.118 09:40, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, I think he looks worse now that he changed the frames on his glasses.  Maybe I'm off but I think the picture is quite good. -- Gerkinstock 20:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moore picture 

message: I heard something on the radio about him bragging of driving an American car, probably a modest one, but that he sold it or traded it in and it didn't have any miles on it. Is there any truth to this at all? --Howdybob 05:23, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Didn't drive his Detroit car?? 

message: Michael Moore isn't a current event.  I'm pretty sure that the template is referring to SiCKO, but isn't there a more appropriate template that can be used?  I'm not a Wikipedia regular so I don't know, but surely there's something that applies to people involved in current events.  71.2.72.28 06:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isn't that template a bit odd?