Talk:Characters of Carnivàle

message: With the current attempts to rewrite Wikipedia:Notability (fiction), I feel that I need to explain the existence of this page (just in case; if not, this rationale doesn't do any harm).
* The info of this article started out as a subsection of the Carnivàle (before I set foot on the article). When I expanded that article and it got too long (55kB) (), I moved most in-universe/plot info to Fictional universe of Carnivàle, which was also expanded  until I transformed the character table into a much nicer looking list and moved the info to this page here(). When Fictional universe of Carnivàle was AfD-ed, I was bold and merged the sections #Genealogy and #Open questions here. 
* In the past few weeks, I have focused on making Carnivàle a Featured article. I then spent effort on establishing the notability of the  Mythology of Carnivàle article to avoid another AfD. (That article still isn't finished though, but it's getting there.) What I want to say is that I cannot expand this article here and other articles at the same time.
* I think the layout of the Characters article is pretty good now, although it still lacks the important character information from the plot. What I'm envisioning is a short paragraph for each season for each character, like I have already done for Tommy Dolan and Jonesy. (Since I won't start a page for each character or separate episodes, I don't see why the plot cannot be retold in the Character article.) I have also added Production notes sections for most characters. These sections are all not finished - more material exists, I just haven't added it.
* If you want to expand this article yourself (or if you just doubt that more material exists for an article expansion), see a list of usable links and pre-compiled info at User talk:Sgeureka/Carnivàle. There is also a list of reviews for the show at User:Sgeureka/Carnivàle/Review and the related talk page. More info is present in the DVD audio commentaries and DVD featurettes.
– sgeureka t•c 19:05, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and if you think that Ben Hawkins and Brother Justin Crowe aren't notable enough to have their own article, be bold and merge them here. I just haven't got around to do that. Neither have I thought about how such a merge should look like since those articles have a different article layout/structure than this article here. – sgeureka t•c 19:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the above issues have been fixed now. I have not really added information from the audio commentaries though. There may be also a lot more info about the casting process in the DVD Extra "The Museum of Television & Radio's William S. Paley Television Festival". Because I based my sourcing mostly on the internet where I found no interview with Nick Stahl about Carnivàle, his section is a little shortish. But most of the important info is there. – sgeureka t•c 01:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why this article exists 

message: I thought that Sudder's nickname was "Hack". Could be wrong, though. Mdiamante 00:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's "Hack". I already changed it. – sgeureka t•c 13:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Hank" or "Hack" Scudder? 

message: I wish to make the Carnivàle articles a Featured Topic. You may leave comments for possible improvement of these articles as a group at Wikipedia:Peer review/Carnivàle/archive1. Thank you. – sgeureka t•c 17:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer review 

message: That pic doesn't really give one a good impression of CB's face, IMO... I don't have any dvds, and a quick Google search doesn't turn up any better ones (this  was the best I could find), so I hereby suggest a new pic. Thank you. Mdiamante 23:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I kind of like the one there is at the moment. Do you object to BJ's impression (e.g. "too stern"), his look (e.g. "that's not what he usually looks like"), or the quality of the lighting (e.g. "it's too bright and I you can't make out any detail")? The quality of my DVD caps is usually not that good, so I prefer those from from promo kits. My googling brought these images, but I don't like them for different reasons: two images, both too small, stupid background, 5th image, stupid smoke, too small. – sgeureka t•c 01:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I like it, especially because its composition is similar to that of the Ben picture. They look like a pair. ;) Mdiamante (talk) 01:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Justin picture 

message: * I really hate to do this to you. The article shows extensive amounts of hard work; I've seen articles promoted to GA that obviously required far less effort to write. I really want to offer you my congrats and my thanks for the hard work you've put into making this info available to Wikipedia.
* The fatal flaw here is the extensive problems with WP:INUNIVERSE. Each bio section reads like a bio of a real person, at least for long stretches of text at a time. There is so very much of it that i didn't feel placing the article on Hold for a week would offer sufficient time to rework the text.
* The references... you certainly have no fear of not having enough of them ;-) ... I saw at least one blog; I dunno how your refs would fare if compared one by one to WP:RS.
* if you feel this review is inaccurate, please feel free to list the article at WP:GAR.
* Ling.Nut 16:17, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *I though I had made sure that the article itself gives the reasons for why it looks the way it looks, but I may be completely wrong. Listed at Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment#Characters_of_Carniv.C3.A0le to get more input. – sgeureka t•c 18:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  failed GA 

message: Hello. I am considering posting this as good article but it needs an enema. Please tell me what is lacking. Guru dies on Namek  —Preceding undated comment added 12:39, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good article status?? 

message: Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted.
Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia.
This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link.
If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting.
If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page.
If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta.
When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags.
The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true.
Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
*http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=2860
*:Triggered by \bhollywoodnorthreport\.com\b on the local blacklist
If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II NotifyOnline 18:53, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Characters of Carnivàle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090623030230/http://chud.com:80/articles/articles/1255/1/THUD-INTERVIEW-DAN-KNAUF-CARNIVALE-PRODUCER/Page1.html to http://chud.com/articles/articles/1255/1/THUD-INTERVIEW-DAN-KNAUF-CARNIVALE-PRODUCER/Page1.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 10:58, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Characters of Carnivàle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://themidway.org/reviews/20041010-01.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.centimes.demon.co.uk/Fragments/carnivaletcatranscript.html
*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/6EhE4v2ft?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carnycon.com%2Fbally%2Fdan.html to http://www.carnycon.com/bally/dan.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927063715/http://www.carnycon.com/dvd.html to http://www.carnycon.com/dvd.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:10, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 14 external links on Characters of Carnivàle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930013015/http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/carnivaleseason1.php to http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/carnivaleseason1.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070813180041/http://www.savecarnivale.org/html/carniecast_071705.htm to http://www.savecarnivale.org/html/carniecast_071705.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930005237/http://www.mooncross.net/carnivale/transcripts/chat_knauf.html to http://www.mooncross.net/carnivale/transcripts/chat_knauf.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928051318/http://www.dvdtown.com/reviews/carnivale-the-complete-1st-season/2523 to http://www.dvdtown.com/reviews/carnivale-the-complete-1st-season/2523
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090524084001/http://movies.ign.com/articles/577/577934p1.html to http://movies.ign.com/articles/577/577934p1.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.carnycon.com/bally/dan.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928193722/http://www.savecarnivale.org/html/carniecast_072405_mja.htm to http://www.savecarnivale.org/html/carniecast_072405_mja.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071204014233/http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/entertainment/2001995758_breewalker04.html to http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/entertainment/2001995758_breewalker04.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090618012932/http://www.timespressrecorder.com/articles/2004/06/25/news/news01.txt to http://www.timespressrecorder.com/articles/2004/06/25/news/news01.txt
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-tv.html?2003-08%2F12%2F11.00.tv
*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/60msMQody?url=http://www.youngartistawards.org/noms25.htm to http://www.youngartistawards.org/noms25.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071014105357/http://savecarnivale.org/html/carniecast_clancy.htm to http://www.savecarnivale.org/html/carniecast_clancy.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100729141411/http://www.cliqueclack.com/tv/2010/07/27/tim-dekay-on-what-could-have-come-next-on-carnivale/ to http://www.cliqueclack.com/tv/2010/07/27/tim-dekay-on-what-could-have-come-next-on-carnivale/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070807004050/http://www.savecarnivale.org/html/carniecast_knauf.htm to http://www.savecarnivale.org/html/carniecast_knauf.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:41, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Characters of Carnivàle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090618031144/http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/bell/20050125-9999-1m25bell.html to http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/bell/20050125-9999-1m25bell.html
*Added archive https://archive.is/20071213011242/http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271%7C96426%7C1%7C,00.html to http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1%2C1002%2C271%7C96426%7C1%7C%2C00.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:29, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Characters of Carnivàle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://www.carnycon.com/bally/clancy.html
*Added  tag to http://www.carnycon.com/bally/rob.html
*Added  tag to http://www.carnycon.com/bally/debra.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070717075847/http://cbfccharityauction.blogspot.com/ to http://cbfccharityauction.blogspot.com/
*Added  tag to http://www.carnycon.com/bally/brian.html
*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/6EhD7T69h?url=http://carnivaleinterviews.blogspot.de/2004_01_01_archive.html to http://carnivaleinterviews.blogspot.com/2004_01_01_archive.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:56, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: As I said at the time this appeared on the Main Page, this article is not of FA quality. In fact, reading the FA nomination, is should never have passed in the first place. The main failing is a lack of reliable sources. This was even admitted in the FA nom - Some sources are to a yahoo group that requires registration, but these are forum posts by the producer of the show (Daniel Knauf) and are thus reliable in their essence. Forums, by their very nature, fail WP:RS. Blogs also fail WP:RS. For the purpose of this discussion, we are discussing the current version of the article, last edited at 16:16, 6 September 2021.
References 4, 23, 40, 64, 96, 97, and 100 are all sourced from a Yahoo forum; references 22, 29, and 77 are sourced to blogs. There may also be a WP:PRIMARY issue, as HBO was the channel that Carnivàle aired on. References 3, 8, 11–13, 21, 25, 37–39, 41, 44, 45, 47–52, 55–63, 65–73, 84, and 99 are all from HBO. Similarly, interviews given by show creator Dan Knauf are also PRIMARY sources - references 5, 9, 10, 28, and 101 are in this category, as well as other references already listed above. So, there are issues with 54 of the 101 references used in the article, more than half.
It is apparent that this article should go through a FAR, with a recommendation that it be delisted. I've temporarily watchlisted this article, so there is no need to ping me in replies. Mjroots (talk) 10:29, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Pre FAR comments