Talk:Cannabis/Archive 3

message: There are 3 types of cannabis, Cannabis sativa, Cannabis indica, and Cannabis ruderalis. The first 2 are the kinds that are generally smoked. The article for cannabis in general is at Cannabis sativa, and should be moved here. The differences between sativa and indica are that sativas are from tropical environments and have longer growing seasons. Indicas have bigger and darker leaves. The high for sativas is more energetic, and the high for indicas is more sedative. Conwiki 02:49, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it looks like its 4. Despite the articles missleading title, they didnt include ruderalis in their count, it looks like Rasta lends its name to a third type of cannabis and we might have a edit to do.--PetterBudt 11:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article should be at Cannabis

message: :Actually it looks like its 4. Despite the articles missleading title, they didnt include ruderalis in their count, it looks like Rasta lends its name to a third type of cannabis and we might have a edit to do.--PetterBudt 11:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New kind discovered 

message: If the focus of Cannabis (drug) is restricted to the use of plant products as psychoactive drugs then the article's title is too broad, and should be Cannabis (psychoactive drugs)). Laurel Bush 12:41, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: All drugs are not considered psychoactive, only those that have cause a perceivable change to one's mental state.  For example, aspirin is generally not considered to be psychoactive.  Morphine on the other hand is a psychoactive drug, even though its primary medical use is for pain management.  --Thoric 19:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Since when has cannabis become harmful? (Ngoah89 14:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Cannabis (drug)]]: drug or psychoactive drug?

message: Cannabis: Health issues, Cannabis (drug) and Medical marijuana: all seem to represent competing perspectives on cannabis-related health issues. Laurel Bush 15:55, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cannabis-related health issues 

message: Anonymous user 68.251.56.116 put a disputed note disputing the accuracy of this article with no explanation or discussion on this page of why they did so. I have removed it. If anyone wants to replace it please state which part of the accuracy of this article is in dispute. I have also added an extra paragraph to the long term effects on the mind and brain, which was entirely one sided, wrongly implying that the only effects of cannabis on mind and brain are negative. Squiquifox 21:16, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual accuracy 

message: First, the new section on spiritual use needs to be less vague and have some supporting sources (presented here in the Talk page, not in the article).
The following does not integrate into the article and repeats several things that are already in the article. Nevertheless, there ought to be a brief synopsis of the relevant information in cannabinoids and a pointer to that article (Main article:) in a new section.
:Marijuana is a drug with a mixed history. Mention it to one person, and it will conjure images of potheads lost in a spaced-out stupor. To another, it may represent relaxation, a slowing down of modern madness. To yet another, marijuana means hope for cancer patients suffering from the debilitating nausea of chemotherapy, or it is the promise of relief from chronic pain. The drug is all these things and more, for its history is a long one, spanning millennia and continents. It is also something everyone is familiar with, whether they know it or not. Everyone grows a form of the drug, regardless of their political leanings or recreational proclivities. That is because the brain makes its own marijuana, natural compounds called endocannabinoids (after the plant's formal name, Cannabis sativa).
:The study of endocannabinoids in recent years has led to exciting discoveries. By examining these substances, researchers have exposed an entirely new signaling system in the brain: a way that nerve cells communicate that no one anticipated even 15 years ago. Fully understanding this signaling system could have far-reaching implications. The details appear to hold a key to devising treatments for anxiety, pain, nausea, obesity, brain injury and many other medical problems. Ultimately such treatments could be tailored precisely so that they would not initiate the unwanted side effects produced by marijuana itself.
:Reference: taken from the Scientific American Magazine December 2004 article by Roger A. Nicoll and Bradley E. Alger
The following is not related to long-term effects and is vague as to not warrant inclusion in an encyclopedia:
:There has been little or no research into the benefits and positive effects of cannabis use on the brain, though many users do report an increase in the ability of the brain to perform in certain ways, and particularly to self-reflect. In many traditional cultures cannabis has been taken in order to stimulate mental activity. A significant number of  cannabis users report the positive effect of this substance on enhancing brain activity, but as yet there is no evidence to associate cannabis use with increased intelligence.
- Centrx 21:45, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed parts 

message: This is a stub at the moment, but I cannot say that about an individual section. I do think it should stay, will try to expand it, and hope others do so as well. RE Mind and Brain I am concerned about the bias in this section that implies cannabis only has negative effects on the mind and the brain. Perhaps the whole section needs re-writing! I will try to get something solid together before doing so, and recognise I was being vague. Squiquifox 00:38, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Spiritual use

message: Nowhere in clinical depression does it state that depression is a disease, and I have removed the comments implying that it is a disease from the Mind and Brain section of this article, as well as trying to make it come from a more balanced and neutral point of view. Mental aberration has been removed as well. Squiquifox 13:55, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Depression is not a disease

message: I disagree. I have a Masters in Psychology from NYU. The well-regarded “Undoing Depression,” by Richard O’Connor (no relation to me), a clinical Ph.D., is based on scholarly research by a professional who overcame depression himself. In the trade paperback edition on pg 20, I quote: “There is a great deal of value in thinking of [depression] as a disease. For one thing, it responds well to medication….Further supporting the disease idea is the finding that the brain chemistry of depressed people is different from that of other people…” This is certainly true for people who suffer chronic depression throughout their lives. 
You’re entitled to your opinion but I assert that you erred in your revision. There is a genetic component in depression and your relying on the "clinical depression" article in Wikipedia (while acknowledging my increasing respect for and usage of Wikipedia and its increasingly stringent standards and usefulness) suggests that the Wikipedia article alone is sufficient to settle this complex issue. 
I can cite additional scholarly sources but that's not necessar. Just Google 
"depression" and "endogenous" depression (a term declining in usage). There is an inherited, genetic basis for depression in some individuals. To say categorically that depression is not a disease is to say that alcoholism is not a disease or schizophrenia, to name just two.
A psychological “state” is, by definition, a temporary, passing condition, as in reactive depression. But a trait is a behavioral characteristic that is relatively stable and consistent across time and situations. Bipolar disorder, formerly known as manic-depression, is a genetically based disorder of the mind of which severe depression is a recurring component. In such individuals, depression is hardly a “state of mind.” 
There is a great deal of controversy and debate over the different types of depression, its causes, symptoms, diagnosis, and treatment. But to categorically wipe away the assertion that depression is a disease and merely a state of mind (based solely on an entry in Wikipedia) is mistaken and misinformed. [User: Thomconn]
::Your reference does not state that depression is a disease; rather it states that doctors can gain value from thinking of it as such.  This is -not- an assertion that depression -is- a disease.  Alcoholism and schizophrenia are extremely poor examples to bolster your assertion as both are controversial regarding description as disease.  The question is not whether it is politically, scientifically or educationally expedient to describe something as a disease in order to provoke an emotional response.  The question is whether or not such conditions satisfy scientific definitions of disease.  This is why we have terms like "syndrome" and "condition."  Disease is something specific.24.33.28.52 19:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Depression is a disease

message: Please add your sources (at least on this page) so that we can check that your changes are substantial. Otherwise your contributions might get reverted. Cacycle 14:53, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please cite your sources 

message: Increased appetite (colloquially known as "the munchies")
: As this is an encyclopedia article, I think it best if it slang is not scattered around the article in otherwise scientific information, so such slang should instead be in the Common Slang section.
Chronic effects of human consumption vs. Long-term effects of human consumption
: Chronic has a specific meaning of long-continuing or lingering effects that are a result of frequent recurrent use. This is apt for this section because the effects delineated in the section are a result of such chronic use rather than simply long-term effects of usage of any frequency, and the section doesn't only cover long-term effects, it also covers medium-term effects of tolerance and withdrawal.
Tolerance, withdrawal and dreams
: REM rebound is a result of psychological withdrawal, and is only a very tiny mention in the section and so is already sufficiently covered by the former title. Further, what more was added about dreams is simply in excess, a repetition of what was already said, that the REM rebound is a result of cessation after heavy use.
Long-term effects on the mind and brain
: The statements added to this section require some sources, to be presented here, to back them up. After extensive perusal of PubMed it was clear that regular use of cannabis causes a diminishment of cognitive performance in the medium-term (within a month), and that this was indeed an effect on most persons and was certainly a diminishment in certain areas of cognitive performance, not just an appearance of one. Also, "subjective evidence" has no place in an encyclopedia.
Common slang
: I had removed mids and regs because these are simple abbreviations (the first is actually not even an abbreviation) which are not used in any special sense, and so do not qualify as slang. They mean precisely what the words "mid" and "regular" mean.
- Centrx 20:01, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Centrix, as I wrote in your talk page I feel that "mids" and "regs" are legitimate additions to the common slang section. By your logic, "dro"-- since it is an abbreviated form of hyDROponics-- would also not qualify for the slang section and that would be incorrect. While the definition of mids and regs may be apparent to some and not appropriate for the slang section, I can think of countless circumstances in just the New York region where these terms have been used in a general way to describe types of cannabis different from potent strains. Howrealisreal 20:58, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Centrx: I would like to see your suggested changes on the article's page as soon as possible. Cacycle 22:11, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent changes 

message: Cacycle, slang names have nothing to do with meSquiquifox 02:25, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: I propose that the Common slang section is made into a separate article in order to address the overweight problem of this article. It seems the best section of the article to do this with, in my opinion. If you disagree and would like to see a different section removed to another article please say s make much sense to me to have such a large collection of slang here. I really don't care that much how you and your friends call different types of Cannabis products or effects. If people from all over the world (remember, en.wikipedia is not US only!) would add their drug scene slang here, the page would rapidly exceed > 32kB. Additionally, nobody benefits from such a collection because the slang is rapidly changing and usually restricted to a very small region or group of people. Cacycle 22:11, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Centrx: I would like to see your suggested changes on the article's page as soon as possible. Cacycle 22:11, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed Common slang article

message: There is much confusion about various terms. For example, cannabis is the scientific name for hemp and marihuana is not another name for the plant, it's the dried flowers of the plant. Furthermore, it would help if readers understand from the start what the different uses of the plant are (eg, that hemp rope and hashish come from the same plant). I've written a proposal to clarify all this in one page, based on this disambiguation page, and then rearrange (and partly rewrite) the articles accordingly, at Talk:Hemp#Two articles or one.3F. Not the most logical place for it, but it started as a reaction to another posting. I added a horizontal line to mark the spot. I suggest you place any comments there, to keep everything together.
DirkvdM 13:10, 2005 May 4 (UTC)
:Marihuana is the (phonetic) mis-spelling of the Mexican slang term marijuana (or also sometimes mariguana), which yes, does primarily refer to the flowers and leaves of the plant, with the proper botanical name of Cannabis Sativa.  Hemp is same plant, but generally refers to the fibrous stalk.  The adoption of the Mexican slang term marijuana was entirely for the purposes of demonizing and criminalizing the well known hemp plant, which was widely cultivated prior to its prohibition to make rope, canvas, paper, clothing and medicine.
:Today, we use the word hemp to refer to low-THC strains of the plant used strictly for the plant fiber material, and for the nutritious seeds and oil.  We use the word cannabis to refer to the high-THC strains used for medicine as well as recreation.  The term medical marijuana is generally derogatorily used by those who oppose the medical use of cannabis, akin to referring to the medical use of alcohol as "medicinal booze" (BTW, alcohol is listed as medicinal in the United States Pharmacopoeia.)
:Since marijuana is a slang term, I don't think it should be used as encyclopedic terminology.  It may be used quite a bit in North America to refer to cannabis as a drug, but that does not make it correct.  Redirecting Marijuana to Cannabis is still the correct action in my opinion. --Thoric 16:36, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to rearrange the Cannabis articles 

message: Hashish is made from the resin coated trichomes of the cannabis plant.  It is not an "extract".  --Thoric 30 June 2005 19:27 (UTC)
:I wrote that hash is the resin from the flowers. Pedant changed that to "various extracts of the cannabis plant, collectively referred to as hashish or hash oil". Now you say it's made from the resin coated trichomes. Actually, it's a sticky mess that gets rubbed off the plant which largely consists of resin made (I believe) in those trichomes. But also other bits of the plant. You can't ever get anything completely pure. Now this is an overly detailed description for a disambiguation page. It's the resin that counts, I'd say, so I suggest leaving it at that, in other words (partly) reverting to my version. However, hash oil is an extract. So what about this: 
:As a drug it usually comes in the form of dried flowers (marijuana, also known as marihuana, ganja, dope, pot, weed, grass or Mary Jane), the resin of these (hashish) or various extracts of the cannabis plant, collectively referred to as hash oil. 
:Although this suggests that hash is made from the flowers and hash oil from the entire plant. That seems to make sense; the flowers are the most potent pits but if you're making an extract you might as well use the entire plant. Or not?
:Also, I'm not sure about putting all the slang terms for marijuana on this page. These should be mentioned somewhere, but this doesn't seem the right place.
:DirkvdM July 1, 2005 08:06 (UTC)
It is best if we keep the cannabis slang at *Wiktionary Appendix of Cannabis Slang. --Howrealisreal 1 July 2005 14:14 (UTC)
:No other comments, so I've changed it to my version above, without the slang listing. Though I don't agree that should only be in Wiktionary, it should also in the Cannabis (drug) article. But all these terms also redirect to cannabis through disambiguation pages, though not always in the most logical manner. I'll correct that next.
:There's still the problem that Indica (and to a lesser degree also Ruderalis) can also be used as drugs. The text ignores this and even suggests otherwise.
:One other thing. Is the word hemp only used for Sativa and not Ruderalis and Indica?
:DirkvdM July 3, 2005 18:28 (UTC)
The word hemp refers to fibre and oilseed varieties of Cannabis that are characterized by being low in THC and high in CBD. The ratio of CBD to THC is greater than one. --Cannabis 23:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hashish 

message: I was redirected here from "Dagga"-- I'm still not sure what "dagga" is (which is the problem), but I know that the word is sometimes used to refer to marijuana and sometimes to refer to some other type of smoked narcotic. I'm not sure a redirect is the best thing for it, especially when the redirected phrase appears nowhere in the article.155.33.204.202 23:37, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect issues 

message: (from talk page SqueakBox 03:17, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: I just reverted a change to the Species section; in the paragraph describing how the "all the same species" camp works, the full species name should be "Cannabis sativa" or "C. sativa", not just "Cannabis", which is just the genus name no matter who you're talking to.  /blahedo (t) 20:09, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Species vs. subspecies 

message: I removed the link You knows it! to Goldie Lookin' Chain (Welsh rap group & cannabis smokers).  I found only one reference to cannabis on the entire site and no information regarding physiology or science.  If I proved too hasty and missed the section of the site that does speak about the science of cannabis, please link directly to supposed section.  Shawn M. O'Hare 08:25, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inappropriate Link 

message: Doobie links here but the word doesn't appear to be on the page --62.251.90.73 22:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doobie 

message: I read ... is closely related to peyote and somehow dont quite believe it. Peyote is a cactus. Laurel Bush 15:59, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know where that came from, they are very different and affect different receptors.  --Thoric 18:45, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: An anonymous IP was randomly inserting nonsense, including the peyote comment. It was as if testing for response.  I reported it. -SM 20:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cannabis closely related to peyote? 

message: Please see my request, and comment here. I have also requested  and received semi-protection for Cannabis (drug). -SM 17:25, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I have requested semi-protection for this article 

message: If you would like to have this on your userpage, just add  to your userpage, and the box at right will appear on it. Also, if used in your user space, the page will be listed on :Category:Pro-cannabis Wikipedians. If you would like to share it with someone else, type 
Also, consider weighing in on the Wikipedia:Userbox policy poll.
Stand up and be counted while you still can,
StrangerInParadise 20:38, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New Pro-cannabis userbox

message: Any body knows if THC is used as a pesticide by the plants? Or if it is for some other use.
I read so long time ago, but can't trace back the source. The main use of cannabiloids is to protect the plant against the sun's light (ultraviolet).
Caffeine for example is:
In plants, caffeine acts as a natural pesticide that paralyzes and kills many insects feeding upon them. (from Caffeine)
I find this information very interesting. It makes sense that something that can imitate neuro chemical in humans could be used against insects. Spiders seem to be very much affected by caffeine (also from caffeine). I've tried to find this info for long.
:Neat question! I have no idea--but I do know that the level of THC (which is not the only cannabanoid in cannabis, just the most popular with recreational users) is much higher in "bred" plants than it is naturally because of selective breeding. Justin Eiler 01:06, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: well i know that the trichomes on the buds (the crystals) which contain the thc are used to collect pollen from the male plants, hence why the buds are sticky.  but i don't know if the actual THC chemical is used as a pesticide by the plant, good question! Chq 15:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Any body knows if THC is meant as a pesticide by the plant? 

message: Where is cannabis originally native to?  Funkyj 17:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Native to ? 

message: To clarify a few things about my changes which included references. 
(1)SPECIES: "All strains of Cannabis can interbreed which means all known Cannabis plants satisfy the criteria for a single species type called (Cannabis sativa L.)." This means exactly what it says. All known Cannabis plants can interbreed. Speciation must be shown by proving that two different strains can not breed or if they do they produce infertile offspring. At this point in time all Cannabis plants can be breed together to produce fertile offspring. It is an important starting point with the species topic so I have included it at the start of the species topic in the article.
(2)SEX: 
To say that Cannabis is only dioecious is not correct. There are monoecious populations and the hermaphrodite condition is present with some plants and strains and thus, populations. [[[User:Simonapro|Simonapro]] 18:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cannabis Species and Sex 

message: would a link to this cannabis strain guide be acceptable? www.cannabishq.com/strains.html it has no ads, or popups. the strain bible link has forums but they are in spanish.  cannabishq has a strain guide as well as forums but the forums are in english, so it would be a good additional link.
There is a list of cannabis strains at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_strains. I am going to update the cannabis article to link with this. You can probably ask there instead. [[[User:Simonapro|Simonapro]] 18:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: cannabis link