Talk:Prophets in Islam/Archive 1

message: I Added the following:
- Correcting wrong information about Islamic creed on the subject in the introduction. 
- I added four references to make you sure about the accurecy of my changes. 
Thank you for your time
Research2006 05:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction (Who are the prophets of Islam) 

message: Added the following:
While traditionally Muslims always believed the stories of the Qur'an to be history, some liberal movements in Islam argue that they are primarily illustrations of Islamic ethics; as such they may or may not be historically accurate. Modern historians generally take the view that neither the Qur'anic nor Biblical accounts of these stories are historically reliable. --Zeeshanhasan 20:26, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You have this some "liberal movements in Islam" inserted almost everywhere in these articles, regardless of the topic. In most cases it seems this some "liberal movements in Islam" consists only you and your web site. For example, you inserted a belief of some "liberal movements" in Noah article that the Qur'an borrows the flood story from Sumerian mythology. I defy you to find me proof of this claim (other than your own web site). Which "liberal movement in Islam" has said that? Until you do that, I would remove that claim from Noah article. You are inserting you own oneliner beliefs everywhere in all these articles by preceding the beliefs with 'some "liberal movements in Islam,"' it seems. OneGuy 11:56, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: The most widespread Islamic view is that all these prophets originally preached the same message, most recently exemplified by the revelation of the Qur'an to Muhammad.  However, various sects such as the Mu'tazilis and the Ismailis, as well as liberal movements in Islam have speculated that divine revelations such as the Qur'an and Bible are created by God according to the needs of particular times and circumstances. This would allow for a legitimate diversity of revealed truths (accounting for the differences between Biblical and Qur'anic stories of prophets).
The premise is at best too vaguely stated; the Qur'an explicitly notes that some regulations were imposed by God on the prophet's own community but not on other communities (eg the Sabbath and some of the Jewish dietary regulations), and the various revealed books are of course different, although in some sufficiently abstract sense they might be considered the same "message".  The Mutazili and Ismaili beliefs described are relevant to Qur'an, but seem to have little connection to here. - Mustafaa 12:16, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liberal Movements 

message: Correction: Zechariah is an Old Testament prophet. He is not mentioned in the Qur'an. The 'Zakariya' mentioned as a prophet in the Qur'an is in fact the father of John the Baptist. His name is Zacharias.
(I don't know how to edit it.)Prater 13:43, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zacharias vs. Zechariah 

message: Hughes' Dictionary of Islam also lists Uzair (Ezra) and Luqman. Uzair should definitely be added to the list in the article. Prater 14:00, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uzair (Ezra) 

message: Why is it that some prophets have their "Islamic view" pages different from the non-Islamic view (e.g. Sulayman) but others (e.g. Ibraim, Yahya) don't? --Abdousi 21:18, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think if they have a separate page it is meant to show that there will be more information about XX in Islam and to make it more prominent.  the Jesus in Islam section of Jesus would be severely suppressed because this encyclopedia is being editted by many people who know a lot more about Christianity than Islam.  If we use the page Isa his view as an Islamic prophet can have some prominence. That's what I think at least gren 22:44, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different articles? 

message: Can we include Abakh Khoja on this page? See the following from Kashgar:
:The tomb of Abakh Khoja, considered the holiest Muslim site in Xinjiang. Built in the 17th century, the beautiful tiled mausoleum 5 km northeast of the city centre also contains the tombs of five generations of his family. Abkah was a powerful ruler, controlling Khotan, Yarkand, Korla, Kuch and Aksu as well as Kashgar. Among some Xinjiang Muslims, he was considered a prophet, second only to Mohammed in importance. (emphasis mine) ~ Dpr 16:13, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Abakh Khoja

message: What are the conditions for getting onto the "List of Prophets?" Is there some sort of system for doing so?  I don't see why Luqman and Dhul-Qarnayn are excluded from the list of prophets, when both are mentioned in the Qur'an and are thus widely recognized as prophets. Luqman has a chapter of the Qur'an named after him, and is called, in the Qur'an,  "one who Allah gave wisdom." Dhul-Qarnayn is similarly praised in the Qur'an, and is described as having conversations with Allah and one whom "Allah gave great power in the earth, and the ways and means to all ends." These are the only people listed under "Possible Prophets" who are mentioned in the Qur'an, while the rest of the "Possible Prophets" are frivolous suggestions such as the silly idea that Buddha was a prophet of Islam. --Zeno of Elea 21:39, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Prophets? 

message: I think the long tag should be removed.  It is long but there is no way to split this up and the immense size is because of so many links.  The tag is for an issue that won't be resolved unless we decide to get read of the links to the Qur'an verses.  So, should we get rid of the links? and, can we get rid of the tag? gren グレン 15:40, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Template:long
Enchanter 11:21, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Might be worth going through some of the cited verses, I just clicked 1:7 which was listed as an admonition against becoming a Christian (following Ise), and found The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray. which seems to be completely unrelated. Sherurcij (talk) (bounties) 18:12, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: It's not exactly encyclopedic but I think it's nifty.  However, I think it probably should be what you said with a description of who are the known prophets, how many were there... opinions on iffy ones (Alexander, Cyrus), etc. gren グレン 14:56, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The links should absolutely be unlinked; Wikipedia is not a collection of external links. The unlinked lists of verses should stay in Wikipedia, but not here, where they are too specific; they should move to more specialized articles. Their presence in this overview is apparently stifling real summaries of the prophets, which is what the article is about. Melchoir 10:33, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree wholeheartedly.  Currently this article is giving no actual summary information about each prophet and lots of external links - not what I expect from a Wikipedia article, and not meeting the standard requirements.  I respectfully suggest making each section a summary of the prophet, and a link to a separate, deeper article on each, which could contain the current external links for reference.  Had I the knowledge of the subject to do this myself, I would.  Good luck!  --Estarriol 10:44, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Here's a wild idea. If we really care about this issue (and if we have the time), then we can share the work - by this I mean that we each pick a prophet and take up Estarriols suggestion of "making each section a summary of the prophet, and a link to a separate, deeper article on each, which could contain the current external links for reference." How does this sound ? MP   (talk) 11:16, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't mind that. We can make an article on each prophet and have the links there too. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 17:39, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've begun work on the above plan; feel free to help out since I think it's pretty obvious what I'm doing. I'm doing section editing, one prophet at a time so others can easily help out. I'll usually delete the index of verses for the prophet I'm working on first. joturner 23:22, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just wanted to say "good show" and thank those of you who have been editing this article recently.  IMHO, its value as an encyclopedic article has improved immensely.  Thanks!  --Estarriol 11:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long 

message: Since  Anbiyaa (though wrongly spelt Ambiyaa) now points here, I added its meaning in Arabic, otherwise the reason of the redirection is not clear. I have also added the Arabic spelling in singular and plural نبي أنبياء, which might be useful. --Filius Rosadis 22:41, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anbiyaa 

message: Throughout these articles, I have seen it written both "Prophet" and "prophet". Which is correct? --OGoncho 09:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If the word is in a quote, then leave it as it is, but if it's not a quote, then we should use 'prophet' to keep everything neutral. MP   (talk) 11:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Capitalization?

message: I don't know if the submission site is the best site to be linking to, considering how they don't agree with the last two verses of the ninth chapter (i.e., their translation only has 127 verses as opposed to the vast majority of Muslims have 129 sites). Pepsidrinka 23:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The submission site 

message: See the article history to look at the index of verses removed from the article page. joturner 02:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You will add them to each prophet article? --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 02:30, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, I'll continue to do that. I have copied the links to Word so that I don't have to keep adding stress to the server as Pepsidrinka remarked on my talk page. joturner 02:47, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Index of verses 

message: From the fifth longest article on the English Wikipedia to this; the long-anticipated reduction of the article is complete. joturner 05:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work! Now we need to improve all the prophet articles. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 16:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think a WikiProject is in the works here. joturner 16:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking the same thing. Okay so wikiproject Prophets of Islam? --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 16:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I created it. See your talk page. joturner 17:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Great. We may need some more editors too but it won't be a very hard job. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 17:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mission Accomplished 

message: Seth#Seth in Islam BTW nice job on the project, very nicely organized. Esquizombi 03:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seth is a prophet of Islam? --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 06:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, hence the question mark. Esquizombi 14:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see. I don't think it is a name of any of the prophets. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 15:28, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He was a son of Adam and hence is casually regarded as a prophet of Islam within, IMO the Muslims population living in the West, those who have been exposed to the Biblical prophets. Most scholars do not regard him as a prophet simply because of the fact that the Qur'an does not do so. Using the USC Qur'an search, there is no mention of a "Seth" within the Qur'an. Pepsidrinka 15:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes he was the son of Adam. I changed this in the Seth article. I think the hadiths say something about Seth but I can't remember. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 15:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  I did a google search which found a hadith claimed to be in Bukhari but I couldn't find it in the USC-MSA hadith database.  It said "Allah sent down one hundred four psalms, of which fifty were sent down to Seth." Variant spellings of Sheeth and Shiith popped up.  This site gives some citations to Shiite sources: http://al-islam.org/jesus_shiite_narrations/6.htm  I can't help much more than that, maybe you'd be able to find out more. Esquizombi 03:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw that Abu Dhar hadith too. Yes I think this will help with the short Islam section on the Seth page. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 03:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Seth?

message: "He was created by Allah but brought to life forty days after being kept." I do not understand what this means. Tom Harrison Talk 03:33, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...as a dry body. The sentence has been fixed. joturner 03:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kept? 

message: I think that stub could be redirected here, what do you think? Esquizombi 22:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a merge here or a merge to Muhammad would be appropriate. Perhaps a redirect here with a comment under Muhammad that when the Apostle of God is mentioned, it often times refers to him, though it can refer to any prophet of God. Pepsidrinka 01:47, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Apostle of God]]

message: Are there any knowledgeable scholars here willing to address what is essentially a retcon by Islam, in designating Jesus and Adam as prophets of Islam? Perhaps as a device used to achieve legitimacy? I have considered an atheist and even as a novice making a neutral reading of this article I can already detect what must surely have been addressed by historians.
Dear contributor:
I am a researcher holding a BA in Islamic and Arabic Studies. The point you are asking about is that I only here to just make "facts" published. Neutrally. I put some references too to support this fact. The "fact" here is that "Islam considers" those persons to be prophets and "Islam names" their message as "Islam". All this is both reported verbally and in writing through the 1400 years since Islam emerged. Documents, archealogical artifacts and historical documents  are availble in many countries' libraries for authentication all over the world. like this one, and this wonderful Islamic Manuscripts and archealogical artifacts from Africa, Library of Congress Collection . Research2006 15:28, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retconning? 

message: Qu'ran is just an adapted version of the Judeo-Christian scriptures in circulation in the region around in the 8th Century. Its that simple. Where do you think the list of prophets came from , a winged creature in a cave  mysteriously whispering in Muhammad's ear or the Judeo Christians teachings of Syrian Christian missionaries in the region at the time? --CltFn 02:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: your perspective on all things Muslim is well known.  Kindly refrain from allowing your own pov warp articles. --Irishpunktom\talk 11:13, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The pink elephant in the living room

message: This "introduction" is a bloody mess.Timothy Usher 06:08, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Introduction

message: Should this be included or not? (87.74.34.16 06:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. As Wikipedia is for all people - Muslim and non-Muslim - we must remain neutral. Using (saw), (pbuh), or other honorific statement following the names of Islamic prophets (or prophets from any other religion) gives them unnecessary praise with which many people would not agree. As a result, they should not be included. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 08:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: S.A.W

message: For each of these prophets, could someone please add Surah references to the main passages discussing them?
(I understand that the Quran tends to mention a Prophet on several different occasions -- but even a selection of the mentionings would be useful.) And, even hadith references. This would make this article more useful to those just beginning in their study of islam. --144.136.123.112 00:08, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surah references please 

message: I'm sure Imran is a Prophet, why is he not on the list? He was the father of Maryam and the brother of Zacharia, the second largest Surah in the Qur'an is named after him. But I don't think he is mentioned in the Bible, I maybe wrong. M2k41 22:29, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Imran?

message: The introduction needs to be corrected. All Messengers are Prophets but not all Prophets are Messengers.--JuanMuslim  1m 16:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong 

message: As the article is about prophets of Islam, I was thinking that perhaps when the names of prophets are mentioned, their Arabic versions be used - e.g. Nuh instead of Noah. The subsections titles do the translation for us, so there is also no need to write both versions. Exceptions include Adam and Muhammad (that's all, I think). It  has been agreed that Allah be changed to God in Islam articles (I can't remember where this agreement took place, but I'll find out). MP   (talk) 10:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly suggest that the names should be conventional English names. The article is currently very unreadable to a Western reader, and confusing. This is English Wikipedia. Cuñado  - Talk 05:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names 

message: Please express your opinion in Talk:Islamic account of Sulayman about renaming Islamic account of Sulayman into Islamic view of Solomon, which was made unilaterally by user:Striver without any previous discussion, who now refuses to discuss the name claiming that "Solomon"  is "English name". Mukadderat 16:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sulayman