Talk:Millennials/Archive 2

message: ..and right now, the first two paragraphs are the best I've seen them, and then the article descends into poorly-written conjecture and even includes a link to some self-aggrandized individual's myspace?  WTF.   I think having the first two paragraphs alone should do the topic justice for Wiki purposes, then point to external links for discussion, such as the Fourthturning forum on Millennials. --Biddy563768.23.74.113 19:07, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Been watching this page a long time

message: January 5, 2006
As stated above I've added two links to articles dealing with Gen Y outside the U.S. What I've seen researching this topic, the term Gen Y is popular outside of America. 
Wyn
Please stop adding that these terms are used only in North America. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:41, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true though. This whole "generation theory" stuff based on this book/Strauss and Howe isn't used by practically anyone outside of the US/Canada, and that's unsubstantiated quackery in any case.. --Mistress Selina Kyle (Α⇔Ω ¦ ⇒✉) 21:46, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Do some research before engaging in revert wars.   SlimVirgin (talk) 00:55, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Thank you for finding all those sources, Jacj. SlimVirgin (talk) 04:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Where used - not outside the US and Canada?

message: "those born in the early 1980s probably did not own a computer until their preteen or teen years in the early to mid-1990s."
Patently false.  the Apple ][, Commodore64 and TRS80 personal computers were a huge hit in the very early 80's, and were commonly available in the homes of genx'ers (even if they didn't own them outright).
It may be more accurate to mark the boundary with the presence of computers in everyday life. Late gen-xers (such as myself (1974))remember a time when computers were very rarely seen. Around 1978, computers started showing up at POS systems, banks, movies, TV etc etc). 
Generation Y'ers have always been surrounded by computers, and would not find their presence remarkable, or even interesting.
: I'm from 1978. I remember 1990 and watching a newscast talking about how the birth rate was so high that year and they said congratulations to the parents. By 1991-2 I could have been someone's parent because I was 13-14. I remember wondering how it would be like having so many people around in the future.  Ok, I know I'm old!! How many times have the dates changed on this page? People keep on changing the dates between 1977 and mid 80s. I think this page should be for those born mid 80s-?. And those born late 70s should go to MTV Generation. 1977-85 numbers around 32 million people in the US. 1985-1995 is way above 40 million people. These are two different groups. If we keep on combining together, this page isn't going to describe either of us. Worse, it's not going to describe the majority of Millennial people who were born around the 90s, which is unfair. They are the majority and they own the name, so they should describe this group, not the MTV Generation, not Generation X either. They (1985-?) are the best judges of what their generation is. It's not worth it to put all this hard work into this article, when it gets erased the next day by either group. We'll never agree. We might as well just split. Likewise, about the person above talking about Comodore64 and TRS80 - that would be of more interest to the MTV Generation rather than the Millennial Generation because we remember it, they don't. Like how libraries were still using those old index cards for looking books up, how we actually wrote letters to each other through the mail, or faught over the home phone. And the computers we had didn't have internet. We were living in the stone age compared to them. Same thing with that section on "Hip Hop Rise/Fall of Rock and Roll" and "Acceptance of Adult-Oriented Media" because they were still being born at that time. I'm thinking that if they were born at that time, then they won't care about it, so how can that define what they are? The only thing it does is prove differences with other generations, not identity. Previous generations don't have the authority to go in and define it. Am I right? Shouldn't this be what they care about/influenced them because that affects what they will do throughout their lives? r430nb 12/18
REPLY: Gen Y is 1983-1996.  I'm 1990-born. Maybe 1997-2001 could squeeze in there too; it depends how culturally similar they are to '80s and early '90s kids.  I'm kinda iffy about having kids born after the 2000 mark be Gen Y, or really even have post-1996 kids be in the gen because 1997 was such a changeful year and they would at best be only 4 years old when 9/11 happened, although I'm sure they would have slight memories of Gulf War II.  Above somebody said 1990ers shouldn't be Gen Y!  That's ridiculous, I have much more in common with an '85er than with even a '95er.
I'd say 1986-1992 is the core of Gen Y; 1977-1985 it really depends on personality whether you're X or Y, 1993-2001 time will have to tell the exact bound between Y and "Z" but I'm pretty sure that kids born prior to 1997 are Yers and not Zers.  1990 is DEFINITELY Gen Y, no argument.
Not that I'm proud of my "Y-hood".
Sorry, I know 1990 is part of Gen Y. I meant something else - that 1990 was part of Y, but for those that fall in between, it's hard to put a boundary separating one from the next. Like he said above, it depends on personality. Ok, forget about what I said about 77-85, what I meant is that there is a group of years that fall in between X and Y where people identify with a combination of both, either or neither. It's not like one year is X and the next year everyone is Y, like how Strauss and Howe portray it. They say that just because the baby on board sticker was invented and people became more protective over their children in 1982 that it totally made them different from people a year before. If you grew up in these boundary years, you would see it's more like a group of years where people totally disagree with one another of each other's identity and that there is no right or wrong identity at all, but common experiences from growing up at the same time. There is no definiteness in belonging to a specific generation. In fact, there is more conflict in this group over common identity than in people in core years of generations. So, even if Generation Y starts at 82 or 83 or 86, that doesn't mean that the years before that are X. I'm just speculating, but a similar thing seems to be going on with the late 90s as well and how people are so eager to put a label on them when there might be none at all. This and many other similar experiences makes us a group, but we are less likely to determine exact boundaries as we've been through all that drama. This whole subject on Generation Y is still new, so verifiable sources may not match what people think. Who has more authority - Strauss and Howe, the Gale group, previous generations, or the people who actually come from Generation Y? Of coarse, it's going to be the person who comes from Generation Y (1990), right? When people are the subject of discussion, then verifiable sources will always be biased one way or another. So, in terms of boundary, there should be no boundary at all, but an intermediate group between both generations that has no conflict with either generation and is supportive of both. r430nb 12/18
REPLY:
Thank you.  But let me get something clear: are you implying 1990 can be Gen Z to some?  If you are, I respect your opinion but completely disagree.  
Late 80s is definitely the core of Y, but considering Gen Y is thought of as the "Second Baby Boom" and 1990 had huge birth rates, along with the '80s I think a 1990er is definitely in the same league as an '87er or '89er.
Maybe 1994-2001 is "Gen YZ" or whatever, but absolutely not 1990.
:I added the section on XY Cusp between Generation X and Y. r430nb
On the subject of the first paragraph.  Computers were popular and readily available in the mid 80's, true, but that does not imply that GenY grew up surrounded by computers.  They were young, meaning their parents were paying for kid supplies, and unless they were in an upper-middle class family, were probably not surrounded by computers.  Around that time yes, computers may have been prevalent in the homes of GenXers, but it wasn't until the early-mid 90's were computers cheap enough to be available in the homes of people with GenY kids.  As a GenY, I did not grow up surrounded by computers, and most people of similar age didn't.  In fact, a lot of GenYers I know consider GenY and Millenials to be two separate groups, the latter being those who have never known a time without cell phones and the internet, from somewhere around '90ish til now.     Jessymac 20:19, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Digital section quite innacurate. 

message: Re: "Gen Y are usually children to the Baby Boomers and rarely early Gen Xers (about 1950 to 1969)
"
1950-1969 mostly includes boomer years, not GenX.  And if that parenthetical is meant to modify "Baby Boomers," it should be changed to something like 1946-1964) --Stanky 13:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another date problem 

message: "Contrary to popular belief, in 1997 and 1998 hip hop was in somewhat of a dead state as the deaths of Tupac and Notorious B.I.G. slowed the genre and Eminem had not yet appeared on the scene. In fact, from about 1995 on, hip hop was generally losing fans to "alternative" music; this was increased by the deaths of Tupac and Notorious B.I.G. and was not recovered until about 1999 when Eminem rose to fame." I find this very hard to believe, is there a source for this? Flyerhell 22:12, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hip-hop not popular in the late 90s?

message: As a member of Generation Y, I'd have to say that most of what is on this page is just stereotyping and generalizing. Theres no way you can typecast total generations of people. You can say what events there were during the time period that could influence them, but theres no way you can say what their like, especially when dealing with such a massive group. For example, there is no "Anti-Y Trend", some kids just prefer older rock music to newer music and some don't. Most of this generation nonsense, I think, was made by older people trying to understand "youth culture" when in fact, there is none.
:Yes you can generalize... whole generations follow social trends (related to their location on earth, trends in Japan or Africa will be completely different). It doesn't matter if you can't relate to anything at all in those trends, fact is those trends determine social evolutions, and we're all part of it. If we like it or not, these things do influence the world we live in and have to deal with  --LimoWreck 13:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mostly nonsense 

message: "Is Gen Y just a late Gen X?"- Pure opinion with no real fact to back it up. "The XY cusp between X and Y"- Come on, I was born in '87 and my tastes are about the same as those born in 1984 or 85, this XY cusp garbage is nothing but nonsense. Late '70s is Gen X, very early '80s is also Gen X, and 1981 or 82 on is Gen Y, there is no "cusp". Gen Y begins at the beginning of the '80s, generally around 1982 probably. The guy that keeps putting 1977 as the beginning is incorrect, that makes Gen X a 12 year generation, there is no such thing as a 12 year generation, period. I'm not going to sit here fighting about this, but I just want to make known to the public that this article is mostly factually inaccurate and filled with generalizations.
There has most definitely been a Cusp recognised between Gen X and Gen Y - thus the reason for so much dispute over the years and people who feel displaced who were born during the late 70's and early 80's. 87.80.126.226 00:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed some more nonsense 

message: What's with this bullshit of it going all the way to 2000 and beyond.  I'm sorry, if you cannot recall September 11 or weren't eligible to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan, you cannot be in this generation.  We need to be drawing these lines and stop letting some Baby Boomer fuck tell us how it is.
Additionally, it should not be possible for someone AND their child to be part of the same generation.  Say, my brother who was born in 1979 had a kid, in 1999, that kid should not be part of the same generation.  Thus the line needs to be drawn.  And I say it's 1978-1994.
And finally, anybody born after these years could in no way remember even some of the latest trends/news stories including Tickle Me Elmo, Clinton-Lewinksy scandal, the 2000 Election, O.J., Boy Bands, the Y2K scare, Hurricane Andrew, the Chicago Bulls (when basketball was good), Pogs, Disney movies, rap-rock (Korn, Kid Rock), fashion trends (multi-color; tights; baggy/ghetto look)  or even remembers what the hell a cassette tape is.  There's also a big difference, a major difference between Barney (Gen Y) and the Tellitubbies (Gen ?).  These kids also never had Mr. Rogers...only reruns.
We don't even know yet what today's 5-10 year olds will have when they are in high school.  It's already clear that they missed out on the culture of the 90s and late 80s...a 15 year period of memory.  And they still likely don't understand the significance of the War on Terror or the Bush and Clinton eras.
*Considering the way things are going in Iraq, our grandchildren will probably be eligible to serve:) Wizard1022 
07:36, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:   It ends in 1993 or 1994 

message: Being apart of this generation (1982) I find it very controversial to keep this article under the name "Generation Y".  Like the article states, it automatically assumes connection to the pejorative nature of Generation X.  The term Millennials has been just as common in publications.  If I had to choose I would choose Millennials and make Generation Y a redirect to it. 
In sort, we (this generation) are cool enough to have our own originial name and Generation X can go suck an egg. :PJoshua4 08:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing Article Name Heading 

message: This subsection (The Moments that defined Generation Y) constitutes an individual analysis which is more the work of an essay or thesis arguement.  It is not encyclopedic in nature.  Remember that encyclopedia's list facts and at time make reference to various arguments, but enclyclopedias do not make arguements themselves.
This section should be removed from the wikipedia in attempt to return this page to Neutrality.  It could be replaced with a list of major events during Generation Y years, and cite arguements demographers have made as to why these events are important - but the article should not make the arguments itself.
The first three examples were not moments that defined Generation Y, but rather those that defined Generation X. They have no place in this article.
I agree- The sentence covering the Challenger Disaster calling it "a major national event", should be reworded, as it is plainly USA centric. Calling it a major event would suffice. Also What about the fall of the Berlin wall??. It is not mentioned in
-How could the Virginia Tech Massacre have already been used as a way to define Generation Y when it only happened a week ago?RB3 21:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The moments that defined Generation Y" subsection 

message: Please sign your comments on talk pages by using ~~~~.  Mred64 04:56, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sign Comments 

message: I would like to give my two cents before the sociologist, media, ect. finalizes 1978 as begining of generation y. First of all, I don't know why 1976/1977 is not the year. to begin generation y. I am not saying this because I was born late (october) 1976, but I am saying this because it "only makes sense to me." I think that we should figure out the year that generation y begins by the way that the baby boomers thought about figuring out when they would begin the "baby boomers." How did they figure that out anyway? And now is the baby boomer generation begin in 1941-1944 and possibly 1945 and 1946? Does the Baby Boomers begin in 1945 or do they begin in 1946? I'm confused here about that.  You hear many different stories in the media. Also, I think that the Vietnam War is a good marker between generation x and y. JFK began to talk to the President in South Vietnam about helping South Vietnam out.It makes good sense to me that generation x should begin in the 1960's or at least during the beginning stages of Vietnam. The Vietnam war ended in 1972. The troops returned in 1973,1974, and most of the troops officially came back in 1975. This (for the most part) ends the Vietnam War and generation x as I know it. I do not feel like I am a generation xer. I feel like I am a yer. I was labeled as a yer by xers. When I read your article about xers, I cannot really realate to it. I was too young for it, I guess. I could remember watching eposoides of the Brady Bunch. I remember Happy Days (which began in 1974) very much because I'm from Wisconsin and we really, really appreciate a show about Wisconsin a whole' lot!!!! I was in high school when grundge came out (like you were) I was 15 going on 16 when that movie (I once knew the name about it, and now I forgot it) came out about generation x. I was 16 going on 17 when "Reality Bites" came out. I am not a slacker, I'm the type of person that you would have to say, slow down, you can't do that yet. If I had my way, I would run for President right now, or start some company or trend, if I could and am not considered "too young" or "just trying to get some of the things in my life started out." Graduating from the high school class of 1995 (I could have been 16 and graduating from high school, but my mom didn't want me to skip first grade and I held myself from graduating in 1994).
I noticed in your article that the MTV  generation is supposed to be from 1975 to 1985. If this is true, wouldn't it make good sense to you to begin generation y in 1975 (without considering those born in 1974, outside of the MTV generation, even though they could be what I call x/yer's. I coined that new term for those of us who are within five years or so of becoming a part of generation x. What would you say if the media, sociologists or whoever that comes up with this stuff says that generation y should begin in 1982 or 1984, or 1986, or whatever year that they come up with? I think that if they keep the beginning of generation y in the 70's it should be in the mid (1974, 1975, 1976) 70's. This is a nice half way point in the 70's. I think that they should figure out this stuff like they did with the Baby Boomers (did I say that already? I think I might stress it more). Or at least they should coin the 1980's as the beginning of generation y. I don't mean to sound strange, but I feel like a yer, but I'm told that they keep changing the way that generation y should begin. It is confusing anyone born from 1975 to 1985 as to what genertion they are a part of. I'm about ready to write my own book and contact any newspaper I can think of and help them make up their decision. Before generation z graduates from high school would be nice. I guess I am a x/yer (pretty close to a yer). He said this about the guy that I was working with on the campaign (born in 1975) who was a junior/senior from University of Wisconsin Madison (I think it is). I also knew for a fact that I am a older member of a "new kind of generation"  when I was three years old (this was ins the summer of 1980, which is the summer that my brother, P.J. was born in). I always thought that my younger brother and I are part of the same generation. After all, we are only three years and eight months apart. My mom is definitely a Baby Boomer (she was born in 1948) My dad is what you called part of the (silent generation). I don't remember what year he was born in (my parents divorced when I was six), but he I knwo that he is less than ten years older than my mom, but he is definitely not a boomer. I think he is just under 65 now. I talk to him every now and then. 
You are very young. you added some of your opinions as to why 1978 should be the beginning of generation y and that is normal for a paticular year (as you can tell I made my statement known why 1976, or at least 1977 should be the beginning of generation y. I think that you should write a book and write articles in every newspaper that you could think of (Time, Readers Digest, New York Times, ect). That way at least you have put in your "two cents worth" before the media, sociologists, ect. pick out a year in the 1980's for us as the beginning of generation y.
  
I have something to comment about your opionion that those born in 1978 are a lot happier. I don't think it matters what year you were born in whether or not you are happy. I doin't think that 1978 would mark a year in which you are happy or not. I kind of think that anyone who is born out of the Vietnam war is a different that those born in the process of the war. I think anyone born from 1975 on are more motivatied to do better in preparing for the workplace, a wizekid, what some people might call "whiz kids." I remember when I first started college in 1996 I was helping out with a congressional campaign. I was working with someone who knew my older sister (born in September of 1970) and he told me that I am a yer (or "whatever new generation" that they are coming out with now)  
Will the editor of the magazinge please e-mail me at tlh102000@yahoo.com. I have something to say about generation y, but I did not figure out how to send my opinion and I was told that my opinion is "to long." You should have a "comments" or a "feedback" page readily accessable from your home page. This will make it easier for people to site there opinion and so that more people will be able to express their opinion as to generation y. I will try later on, but if someone could tell me how to "send" my opinion, that would be greatly appreciated.
Please note, no amount of discussion will certify a starting year for Generation Y, so there is no point in debating whether it is 1976, 1977, 1978, or 1982 as used by Howe and Strauss.  This is specificaly why the article cites a wide age range and the fact that there is no consensus.  Ivymike21 20:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsigned Comment about why Generation Y Should Start in 1976/1977 

message: Does the "epidemic" count as culture, since we're including the SARS outbreak? Capitan Obvio 05:00, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avian Flu? 

message: Speaking as a guy born in 1991, I usually think of the core of Generation Y to be 1984-1993. This may sound rather arbitrary, but I think if you were in high school when Nevermind came out, you're definitely in X, but if you were older than a newborn and not yet in middle school when Cobain died, you are definitely in Y.
However, to be in the core part of Y, you should definitely have at least some memory before the internet took off with the general public around 1997. Memories usually start to develop around the age of 3-4 for most people. So this would probably put the last year for the core of Generation Y at about 1993.
As for Generation Y altogether, I would define the youngest as having at least some memory of the 20th century or having at least some knowledge and recollection of 9/11, so I guess that has the generation ending at 1995-ish (though it may be too soon to tell). It's too complicated to really sort out the oldest Yers, so I'll pick the earliest date set for Y (1977) and average it out with the year before the first core Yers were born in (1983), which makes 1980.
So:
The core of Generation Y - 1984-1993
Generation Y altogether - 1980-1995
I hope that made sense, I'm typing this at 3AM. Any thoughts? - 69.37.79.123
^^Sounds right to me, as a 1990er.  I would say the core is 1985 to 1992, inclusive though. 1981-1996 would be the whole gen.
I'd have to agree to some degree with this, as I feel like the bastard child of a nation having been born in mid 1980.  Generation X never accepted me, solidified Generation Y now considers me an "old man".  As was stated in the main article...I'd consider people like me (roughly, 78-88) "Generation Why?".  I use a decade period to clearly define this because I feel a better association with them, and if you want to be fair it may actually be 1978-1986.  Regardless, it is always hard if not impossible to determine these things.  It just sucks when you don't fit with any generation across the board. Destructive Criticism 02:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Core of Y?

message: regarding this phraseology:
That single marquis event is argued to be September 11, 2001 (9-1-1), the end of relative peacetime and the beginning of wartime, thus meaning that those not able to remember or appreciate the 
*Anybody that has been half-way awake during the last twenty years or so should have noticed many terrorist attacks on US interests far in advance of 9-1-1.  This is POV SPIN, not fact.
*Systematic attacks on the West in General, and the US in particular have been occuring since '67 or so, I don't recall the date of entabe (sp?) or the Achille Lauro (again SP?) or the Olympic village massacre (Munich??) and I've been up all night cleaning up after youngsters that are ignorant of their own culture and history. Put it together, or remove the reference, or revise so it's at least accurate. 
Best regards, <B>Fra</B>nkB 10:39, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NOTICE OF post of DISPUTE TEMPLATE

message: "It is interesting to note that Generation Y is more depressed and world aware (via the Internet) than any generation previous, which has led the Generation gaining a stereotype as the "sad generation".
As a member of Generation X who comes in contact with lots of late teens/early 20s through work and personal life, I have to disagree. In my experience, Gen-Ys are not more "world aware." On average, they have little knowledge of current events as a whole, except perhaps on a superficial level. My stronger objection is to the claim that they are "more depressed," which I have to believe must have been written by a Gen-Y (correct me if I am wrong). Most Gen-Ys I have talked to about the matter seem pretty optimistic about the future. Many baby boomers and some Gen-X grew up expecting to see the world destroyed in a nuclear holocaust. "Eve of Destruction"? Mad Max? On the Beach? To us, those were real. I know people who basically wasted their lives because they thought civilization would end before they could do anything meaningful. That is depressed.  Maestlin 01:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sad Generation 

message: I just categorized Generation V. I believe that article is synonymous with this or iGeneration. I am however not American and have very little knowledge about this subject so I leave it to you people to determine. Regards, Gardar Rurak 07:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Generation V notice 

message: Why is there so little information on this generation, or any of the other generations, in other countries?  Or are they in other articles?71.31.158.148 21:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I find this: "Generation Y is generally considered to be the last generation of Americans wholly born in the 20th century...At times, the term is extrapolated beyond the United States to refer to similarly aged youth in the Western World or Anglophone World." a little hard to stomach, given that the term Generation Y comes from Generation X, which was popularized by a Canadian (Douglas Coupland).  I see no reason why it should be identified as American.  We could just as easily say it refers to Canadians, and is extrapolated to the U.S.  Who decided it refers primarily to the American experience?Roger 09:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Countries 

message: Just to add my 2 cents to this argument. For me, Generation Y is characterised as the Boomer Echo generation that had to adjust during teenage years to the rise of computers, growth of the Internet and increasing inter-connectedness of life - symbolised finally in the prevalence of mobile phones/cell phones.
In regards to computers. Computers were becoming mainstream and important devices from the late 1980s through to the mid 1990s. By about 1992, practically every family would have had at least one computer at home. I can recall that we bought our 3rd home computer in 1992. Another fact, by 1994/95/96 many schools had made it compulsory for all students attending the school to have a laptop as part of their education. The school I was at introduced this policy in 1994 for all students to have a laptop, which continues of course to this day. 
Another fact, the rise of the Internet to a utility of mass cultural significance was around 1994/95 - 2000/2001. By 2001, there could be no doubt about the centrality of the Internet in everyday life.  In the year 1995 the Internet really started exploding and integrating itself into every part of one's life and the momentum is still going today. I can well remember the time as I created my first personalised email account in late 1995.
The third part of this revolution was the growth and basic explosion and proliferation of Mobile Phones - At a rate of growth that even exceeded that of the Internet. For me at least this really began happening in 1998, and by mid 1999 (In Australia) pracitcally everyone in my age had a mobile phone. At the time I was 19.
The question is, if you accept, as I do, the centrality of the growth of the Internet, and then the subsequent wave of mobile technology, and the fact that Generation Y is associated with the growth and explosion of these technologies - where do you set the boundaries for this generation?
To me, someone born when all of these technologies have become common-place is part of the following generation. Sometimes called Generation Z, sometimes called other things. Given that I have previously identified 2001 as perhaps the first year that the Internet was not the new kid on the block - afterall, how it could it be - after 5 years of booming the Internet stocks had crashed and burned in 2000 and the Internet had started to become just a part of the background noise of everyday life - although of course innovations still flood in and its growth continues at a great rate - it is no longer the new kid on the block.
Given that, one then has to find a defining event to signify the end of the Generation. And obviously, it is September 11. Given that occured in September 2001, and that to be a member of Generation Y one must have some real memory of that day and the general mood and feeling it provoked - that would suggest to me that anyone younger than 5, ie - anyone not yet at school, is therefore a part of the following generation. Which means that Generation Y must end around 1995/96. Anyone born around 1995/96 would pretty much have grown up with the whole interconnected world as commonplace - but has perhaps older siblings who remember a slightly less connected world and the growth of the Internet. To me, that just squeezes them into Generation Y at the young end.
Then comes the harder task of defining where Generation Y begins. For me, yes, that is a tougher question to answer, but I am absolutely certain it is not as late as 1982/83. That gives only a 12/13 year Generation! Hardly a sufficient time-span for classifying a Generation! To me a generation is a period of around 15-20 years in which there are many defining characteristics of people born within that era - and its about 20 years until one's children are likely to start reproducing - another important consideration in defining a Generation IMO!
Looking at post-war history, one sees
Approximate Dates
Baby Boomers Born (1946 - 1961/62)
Generation X Born (1961/62 - 1977/78)
Generation Y Born (1977/78 - 1995/96)
Looking at that, that makes Generations X & Y roughly equivalent in length, which seems sensible to me.
For me, one of my earliest memories of a major world event was the Challenger Disaster, which occured in January 1986. I was 6 at the time. Shortly after that, a matter of months, was the Chernobyl nuclear disaster. I guess that I would approach these facts by saying that people older than I who can remember significant world events that occured prior to Challenger & Chernobyl are perhaps part of the tail-end of Generation X, whereas they almost signify the start of Generation Y - in a way.
Challenger represented perhaps the end of the Golden (Naive) Era of Space exploration, an era untainted by such a disaster, and Chernobyl in a way represented the crumbling nature of the Soviet Union. That such a disaster could occur said volumes about the fact that the Communist system was beginning to crack and break-up and within 3 years it would in fact disintegrate under Gorby's perestroika.
One thing I would like to say to those who say Generation Y begins with people born around 1982/83. Do you accept that the rise of computers and the Internet into everyday life are one of the defining characteristics of being a member of Generation Y? I was born in 1979, and given it was compulsory at high-school to have a laptop, a word-processor, a spreadsheet etc. etc. for people of my age - does that make people of my ilk - born 1978/79/80 more appropriately pigeon-holed into Generation X or Y? I have to say, one impression I don't get of Generation X is that computers were such a central part of their lives - it was more `MTV'
Being a teenager through the 90s, 1992-1999, and growing up with bands like the Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys and Aqua blaring out their teeny-bopper music all over the airwaves, I definitely consider that not to have anything to do with Generation X, sounds much more like Generation Y to me.
I would just pose one final question, in thinking about those aforementioned bands, Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, Aqua, do people associate those bands with Generation X or Generation Y?
If it is Generation Y, then it figures that Generation Y began around 1977/78 as I would postulate, if it is Generation X - then I respectfully have to disagree with you! jkm 00:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Generation Y - Born 1977/78 - 1995/96

message: It seems that over the past 6 months, various people who frequent this page have been going back and forth arguing over what years constitute  Generation Y, changing the dates in the article, removing names they think are "too early" or "too late".  Please remember that as the lede paragraphs state, there is NO CONSENSUS as to what ages constitute Generation Y, and the U.S. Census Bureau does not have a legal definition.  To remain factual, the article must remain neutral on this issue, throughout alluding to the full possible range of years that are cited in the real world. Stop wasting time fighting over the years and work on actually improving this article. Ivymike21 20:24, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Continuing Changes to the Page

message: Since no one suggested why iGeneration should be merged with Generation Y, I removed that tag, based on the fact that the iGeneration article defines something distinct from Generation Y, though one may indeed be a subset of the other. Ivymike21 20:24, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge with iGeneration

message: A previous point, which I posted for Generation X, comes screaching into the face of enlightened skeptical inquiry in regard to the description of Generation Y. How is it even relatively possible to have someone who's 20 and someone who is 5 in the same generation???
Think... the person who is 20 is living in the prime of his/her generation as is, the kid who is 5???...
In fifteen years he/she will be 20, so much of the world will be differnt by then that perhaps it will take that long for the infamous "THEY" who come up will tripe like this to realize that you cannot lump people together like "THEY" are doing!
- Unsigned Comment
Dear Unsigned Person,
For some perspective, the Baby Boomer Generation is regularly defined as those born fropm 1945 to 1964, a 19 year age difference from oldest to youngest.  There is no rule that everyone in a generation has to have all the same experiences.  Generational demographics is more art than science. Ivymike21 14:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Again... Who Writes This?!?! 

message: Can we at least have a cool name? Like "Children of Technology" or "Infobator Generation" referring to being the first group to grow up after the Internet growth inflextion point and exposure to the quickest acceleration of data access ever in the history of humanity. Naming it after a website like Google or Myspace is limiting and limiting it to a TV station is simply ridiculous. And naming if after the previous generation is just lazy. --If we are going to name it after a brand or product, I think Transformers is the best choice sinc everyone likes Transformers and it's very international. Flangazor 16:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think it's a lame name, too, but Wikipedia reports what is.  Don't blame wikipedia for the name, "we" are not naming anything, we're just writing about what others have termed this generation.  Gen Y is a pretty bland, meaningless term but whatchagonnado.  --Zagsa 16:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not that lame a name. Do you know Y it was adopted? Not just because it comes after X, but also because people of Generation Y are supposed to question authority, and question their identity, and question what they're doing with their lives, and so on and so forth. Choosing Y as a moniker is an indication of this Generation's so-called curiousity. jkm 13:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Generation Y is a lame name 

message: Since this article and others have so many different opinions on the boundaries of Generation Y, could we please create a list here of all those opinions so we can at least try to reach some conclusion on this.
*The article says that it is 1976-2001.
*Market research uses 1978-2000.
*The American Generations template says 1977-2003.
*The template at the bottom of the article says (1976-1982)-(1995-2001).
*Some say that the September 11 attacks are the boundary between Generation Y and Generation Z, though this seems somewhat limited to America.
Believe me, September 11 is not an Amero-Centric event. It occured at around 11pm, Australian Eastern side and pretty much the entire population would have been watching it live on their TVs, just as most Americans would have seen it. It is not the least bit American-Centric - that single event has driven Australian, and British for that matter, foreign policy ever since - and other countries, though they may have not gone into Iraq, their foreign policy has still been hugely shaped by that event and thus have their societies. Can we get away from the myth that September 11 was something that only effected Americans. Cheers. jkm 02:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, I should've been more clear.  I didn't mean that it hasn't had much of an effect outside of the US, because it has.  What I was trying to say was that it isn't really a definitive point between two generations.  An important event that caused many changes, but not one that caused such drastic changes as to suddenly create a new generation. Sorry about that. 71.31.145.55 02:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Don't worry - you don't have to apologise! Thanks anyway, but I have to disagree with you. I think it has had a huge effect on world society - it basically propelled US Foreign Policy in an entirely new direction, a direction that has prompted all sorts of reactions from countries around the world. As a defining event, you can't really ask for much more than that - the world over! Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq - and maybe North Korea? Syria? in future are basically direct results of September 11 and I'd have to say they're a pretty big deal. Also, allied with September 11 - given it occurred and is occurring around the same time is the Internet revolution and the invasion of IT into all aspects of our lives. This began in the 90s - late Generation Y, and is accelerating into the 21st century such that Generation Z is basically completely wired up from a very young age. For me, Generation Y is kind of a bridging Generation I guess, but I'm straying. jkm 13:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, right now the article is somewhat American-centric.  Though it's usually only called this in the English speaking world, anything about the generation in other countries would be greatly appreciated. 69.40.249.231 03:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Shouldn't we use (1976-82)-(1995-2001) instead.  The years are disputed, and using 1976-2001 could make people believe that these are the official birthyears.  Actually, if you scroll up a bit, you can see that there are already five different dates being used in the article right now. 69.40.240.98 18:48, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth Years 

message: I read in the New York Times today that the graduating class of 2009 will be 3.2 million, the largest so far in the history of the US.  It will also be the largest so far in the "echo boom" (Generation Y).  Should this be put into the article? 69.40.249.231 03:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Class of 2009 

message: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_38/b4001601.htm?chan=careers_first+jobs_top+story
Kevin143 22:17, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference that uses the term "Millenials" 

message: I am a German born in early 1984 and I certainly don't feel that I share the same generation with anyone born in the 1990s. I can hardly relate to anyone born after 1985 or 1986. They listen to a different kind of music (mostly hip-hop), while people born between 1975 and 1985 listen mostly to rock or techno/trance. 
Also, if you were born in Germany during the early 80s you usually still remember the partition, the fall of the Berlin wall and the reunification. And then there is the introduction of the Euro in 2002. Almost all of us were adults when that happened. I still bought my first car with Deutschmarks (German currency from 1948 to 2001). Someone born in the 1990s does not have any relation to the old currency and those born past ca. 1998 won't even remember it at all. To them, the Deutschmark probably means the same as the Reichsmark (German currency from ca. 1870s to 1948) means to me. We have memories about the Helmut Kohl-era and some of us were even old enough to vote for him in the 1998 elections. 
And computers were (at least in Germany) nowhere near as common as today until approximately 1995. The children of the 1990s grew up with modern computers. We had 8/16 bit video games (like the NES/original Games Boy/SNES) and home computers/pre-Windows 95 PCs which were a lot closer to what Generation X had during the 1980s than to modern games. Most people still had to learn how to use the command prompt in DOS or something comparable. I don't think a lot of people born in the 1990s let alone those born in 2000 will ever know how to use it except when they need to do so professionally. There was no affordable private access to the Internet until like 1995/6 as well. Most of us did not have Internet access before we were teenagers. And computers were still considered 'nerdy' until at least 1998. 
Furthermore, the television industry in Germany was fundamentally different from the US until the mid to late 1990s. Up until 1984 there were only three or four government-run networks (in Western Germany ARD, ZDF and one or two regional channels, depending on where you lived). There were no child channels at all until the late 1990s, and by then we were to old to watch them. The Generation Y culture page lists Spongebob as the trademark cartoon of Generation Y. Spongebob means nothing to most of us. The X-Files is not even on that although it was as far as I recall a huge hit in the mid to late 1990s. It certainly means a lot more to me and all of my friends than Spongebob or that awful piece of c*** called Pokemon. No one in my entire class watched that.
I'm probably not in the same generation as someone born in 1968 or even 1974, but I have to say that I don't feel that someone born in 1988 or 1991, let alone a "millennium baby", is in the same generation as I am. Maybe those born between 1979/80 and 1985/86 are a generation on their own, maybe they are in the same generation as those born 1975-78 and 1987-89, but they definitely have almost nothing in common with those born during the 1990s. Forgive me the rant, but I get really pissed when some little kid born in like 1992 who doesn't remember anything about the pre-digital world and could not live without his myspace account wants to tell me that I am like him. I am not and I will never be.
P.s. Sorry about my bad English
84.44.195.246 23:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A German view on this article 

message: Hello.  I was born in late December 1979 and consider myself a member of Generation Y.  I didn't always consider myself a Gen Y'er (or indeed a member of any generation), but after reading an article in American Demographics about this new generational classification (Gen Y didn't exist as a term AFAIK even ten short years ago) I found out that I am truly classifiable as Generation Y.
What is Generation Y?  According to the article, it is comprised of individuals who were born between the years 1977 - 1994.  And while I can't find the original article that I found this definition at, I have found quite a few resources online that utilize this and the other generation definitions that I found in the original article.  The Ohio Library and Information Network defines Generation Y using the same scope under Business & Industry > Concept Terms.  So does the Canadian Women's Business Network.  William J. Schroer, i.e. "The Social Librarian", uses the exact same definitions I saw in the original American Demographics article.  So do American Sports Data, Inc., Business Wire, and management adviser  Juergen Daum.  Generation Y is also defined as "born between 1977 and 1994" by the United States Postal Service, in a press release from October 2005.
So I do think it'd be best to utilize this 1977 - 1994 scope for Generation Y.  It's the definition that makes the most sense to me, and is used by a LOT of organizations (the aforementioned are just examples).  (Krushsister 03:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Watch me provide a definitive scope for Gen Y 

message: I look in amazement at this article when I see the argument advanced that Generation Y can go as late as 2003! Given the term was first used to describe those born around 1977-1994/5 - the generation that grew up as the technological revolution was entering a hyper-phase - which basically started around 1996 and has been speeding along ever since - particularly for the 1996-2000 period. The generation that grew up as mobile phones and the Internet were becoming a widespread phenomena - the generation that grew up in a time of unmatched Global Peace, and unmatched Global Prosperity - which continues today but started with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. How can people, who may be 2 or 3 years old - if born in 2003 - realistically be considered a part of this Generation? The people born in 2001/02/03 will be entering their teenage years in 2014, and exiting their teenage years as late as 2023 - when they turn 20! These people will be experiencing their life-shaping events in the late 2010s - these people won't even remember President Bush as anything more than a grainy image of their toddlerhood - as they were too young. These people will be completely immersed in the technological revolution in a way that those born even 10 years ago won't have experienced at all.
I agree with the poster directly above me - and to counter the argument we're advancing - can someone who advocates Generation Y extending as late as 2003 explain to me - and others, how on Earth a 2yr old of today can have any conception of September 11, Al-Qaeda, the War in Iraq, the War in Afghanistan - the Global War on Terror - its quite possible that by the time this kid reaches his/her teenage years this period may have passed into history OR entered a terrifying new stage. Who knows? How could a 2yr old today have any conception of how the rise of the Internet and interconnectivity changed the world out of all recognition - how the rise of China is changing the shape of the world as we know it - by the time a 2yr old of today is a teenager - China will be entrenched as one of the few global powers - but it wasn't 10 years ago.
For me, there is a clear ending point to Generation Y. It is September 11th, 2001. The world really did change in a big way that day - and ever since its been heading in a very different direction than it was beforehand. To have a true concept of how things have changed - its completely obvious that anyone able to recognise that change must have also experienced at least a touch of how life was beforehand - which means to me - that that person must have been 5-6 yrs old on the day the twin towers came down - which reflects back to say that Generation Y must end in 1995/96. KIds younger than that may remember September 11th, and seen it on their TV screens - but what can they recall from the world before September 11th? Have they got any basis of comparison between the world since September 11th to the world before then? I would doubt it. 155.143.213.124 08:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How can Gen Y include people born as late as 2003? 

message: Taken out these lines: With respect to Canada and the United States - because it serves no purpose whatsoever. And it still maintains all the facts without it.
Unless there is a specific citing of this phrase im rewording it.
Every reference to "only canadians or Americans" was deleted or modified. THE TERM IS WORLDWIDE AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. If you can find some credible source that says it started in america or canada, then you put it here - otherwise, this stays deleted. 
Deleted whole second paragraph, because it was biased and redundant of the first paragraph. 
Also can we have a source for this paragraph - because it sounds like heavy opinion to me - how can you accept prediction as fact? 
"A notable demographic shift will begin to occur in 2010 when the oldest Baby Boomers (b. 1945) hit the United States' legal retirement age of 65. As boomers retire, more members of Generation X will take roles in middle and upper management and the large membership of Generation Y will take up positions in the lower half of the workforce, a process which could have possibly begun since some definitions have members of Gen Y in their late-20s."
All all this stuff about the GI generation and all that sort - ive never heard of. If you think thats widely accepted, your very much mistaken. What I suggest  is that all the Country specific stuff should go under international differences, and the rest talk about generation Y
I also have doubts as whether issues such as hurricane katrina 
and all have much to do with this - sure, they are events that happened when this generation are living.
You also put gay rights in here... now what the heck does that have to do with this genereation? people have been fighting for gay rights all the time. It seems to me like someone had a little rant in here. 
There are a LOT of other things id like to say about this - but to sum it up - Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral. I also cannot believe that none of you even attempted to edit this. 
If i could, id rewrite the whole thing - and the only thing for different countries I would put in, is under a seperate heading - Generation Y International - events and culture labels. 
Sigh, I thought id be finished, but no, Im only half way done - another prime example of heavy bias
"
In a strict sense, the term "Generation Y" and its variations can be said to refer only to the United States, but the close cultural connection between the U.S. and other Western countries has led to the term being used to describe any youth culture, even if the emerging generation does not bear any characteristic similarities to the United States version of "Generation Y" besides chronological birth years."
Deleted paragraph and changed heading. 
There are some paragraphs which i would dearly like to edit, but the bias is so heavily embedded, that I couldnt without damaging the content of the article.
Timmah01 03:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits made 

message: Per discussion on this page, and reality, Generation Y is not a term soley applied to the United States.  Sometimes, the use of Generation Y is meant to dennote only an American cohort, but that is not always the case.  Because of this, the American Generations box should not be prominently displayed at the top of the article as if America is the only applicable use of Generation Y.  It has been moved to the section on the United States. Ivymike21 21:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  American Generations Box 

message: Hi. This is for the man who wrote this website. I noticed that you had edited your description of the different generations since I viewed your site last year. Nice Work!!!! I had a philosophy of what each generation should be like and your shorter table of the different generations was close to the philosophy that had made sense to me. I am working on an article that will describe my theory as to what the generational lines should be and how I am not please with the current methods and the generation table that was created in 1991 (old school). Any pointers?
Firestarter710
::Firestarter: Wikipedia is a collaborative effort among thousands of people from around the world, and as such, one person did not "write this website," though one person may have contributed a good deal of content to a particular article. You should probably read WP:NOT as well as WP:About and the Main wikipedia article. There have been over 2000 separate edits to this article, and more than 300 different people made the last 500 edits. Hopefully, one of the primary watchers of this article will see your question and hopefully be able to provide some advice. --Mattarata 20:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Question/Comment from Firestarter710

message: i think that the internet gen should start alot earlyr —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.29.3.172 (talk) 15:29, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  internet gen