Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 38

message: We don't usually have seperate articles for libretti. Obviously they are normally covered by articles on the individual operas to which they were set. However the libretti of Metastasio are exceptional because of the large number of settings (sometimes thirty, forty or fifty of them). At the moment there appear to be four of them: Artaserse, Demofoonte, L'Olimpiade, Didone abbandonata.
IMO the Metastasio articles are useful, but at the moment they are haphazardly categorized and not very accessible.  Should we create a new category for them, called :Category: Opera libretti ? Is this a good idea or do we, perhaps, need a different approach? -- Kleinzach 09:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's probably a good idea. "Libretti by X" is a viable category and perhaps the last large-scale categorising we could do. It might be worth having a "Composer of the Month"-style drive to deal with Metastasio's libretti in the near future. --Folantin 16:04, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, also agreed, both with Kleinzach and Folantin. Metastasio is a colossal figure in opera history (stating the obvious) and really deserves more than he currently has on WP. Moreschi  Talk 16:11, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm enthusiastic about having a Metastasio push/drive (or whatever we want to call it). Thanks for starting :Category: Opera libretti. Do we also need :Category: Libretti by Metastasio? Or is that overcategorization?  Incidentally Grove have extensive lists (three pages in total) of settings of his libretti arranged title by title. For example, 86 settings of Artaserse are given.-- Kleinzach 02:24, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Metastasio]] libretto pages

message: Someone has put this article up (for merging with Boris Godunov) here. -- Kleinzach 10:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It'd be reasonable if Boris Godunov (opera) wasn't already so long. But we do need to copy over some of the Shostakovich information. Adam Cuerden talk 11:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some sections of the main article can be made into separate articles - for example the discography. It's a promising article - not far off featured article status. -- Kleinzach 12:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would need someone enthusiastic enough to do the inline citations before putting it forward even for GA. And it's not much over 60K adding in the article to be merged and including all the lists. So, not much of a rush to split. My personal hobby horse for music articles is that they should include some musical illustrations before going to FA. With Boris I would suggest having the same passage in different orchestrations as an explanation of what the changes were about.--Peter cohen 12:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Rimsky-Korsakov and Shostakovich versions of Boris Godunov]] at Afd

message: Kleinzach enquired about some sources I had listed here. They're now buried in the archives somewhere, but I've re-printed and expanded them on my sandbox page. Feel free to add them (or the link to my sandbox) to the Project Page, if you think they'd be useful. Best, Voceditenore 10:54, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's great. In case anyone else is interested, here is the list of singers now needing verification/sources: Abbie Mitchell, Alice Tully, Anne Az%C3%A9ma, Bj%C3%B8rn Tal%C3%A9n, Fiona Keys, Marina Prior, Maryetta Midgley, Monika Gonzalez, Muriel Foster, Nelson Martinez, Richard Stilwell %28bass-baritone%29, Thomas Hampson %28baritone%29, Vladimir Stoyanov. -- Kleinzach 12:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Have done refs for Alice Tully and Abbie Mitchell. The Maryetta Midgley one looks as if it might have come from a print version of a UK Who's Who or perhaps from one of the Midgley's themselves. There's nothing on the web except her name in various cast lists, and a mention in a biography of her brother Vernon who teaches at the School of Music, University of Canterbury (NZ). The same person seems to have written unreferenced stubs for the entire Midgely family -  Maryetta, her brother Vernon, her dad Walter, and her mamma Gladys. Thomas Hampson, and Richard Stilwell should be easy to reference, but the Hampson one needs serious wikifying. It's like a record company blurb. Meanwhile, Nelson Martinez, bless him, is very borderline notable, but what the heck. ;-) Will continue my web snooping tomorrow. Best, Voceditenore 14:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Re Bj%C3%B8rn Tal%C3%A9n I've found his recordings are available on a CD published by Preiser Lebendige Vergangenheit so he was obviously an important singer, but I still haven't come up with any good references. All the online stuff is in Norwegian! Any ideas? -- Kleinzach 13:45, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not fabulous ones but this at least confirms his dates of birth and death and notability in Norway. And this confirms the bit about the farm. (Both are in English) Best, Voceditenore 15:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I'm also not sure what to do about the Midgleys! -- Kleinzach 00:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources for current singers and opera in general

message: In my peregrinations amongst the unreferenced singer articles cited in the previous section, I have some doubts about these two...
*Marina Prior, not really notable, and definitely not an opera singer. Someone should at least remove the OP banner.
*Fiona Keys even less notable. Looks very young. Apart from Wikipedia and its various clones, nothing on the web except brief mentions in cast lists for Melbourne City Opera  (mostly bit parts and understudy); singing Carmen in Carmen the musical in a couple of provincial theatres; and her listing as a 2006 member of the Victorian Opera Chorus . I have a feeling this one was self-written.
Best, Voceditenore 15:48, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Marina Prior is a difficult one. I did remove the banner and was going to suggest we leave it to another project to decide her notability, but then I saw she had sung the title role of The Merry Widow professionally (which IMO rather indicates that she is (perhaps marginally) an opera singer) so I put it back. What do other people think of this one? -- Kleinzach 23:49, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Marina Prior is definitely very notable in Australia - she owns "Christine" in The Phantom of the Opera here. Whether that or her title role in The Merry Widow qualifies her as an opera singer, I leave others to judge. I think she was partnered in Phantom by Anthony Warlow who does count as an opera singer. Maybe her agent's blurb can shed some light on it. She also performs regularly in concerts (e.g. here and here) with David Hobson (tenor) who is definitely an opera singer. Michael Bednarek 05:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That looks conclusive. Were you considering verifying her? Perhaps you are the best placed editor here for Australian stuff! -- Kleinzach 07:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Charlotte Church and Debbie Harry sang in concerts with Jose Carreras. So that makes 'em opera singers too!  Just joking. She seems to have done a fair amount of Gilbert & Sullivan in addition to The Merry widow, so I guess the opera project banner is appropropriate after all. I also managed to find quite a lot of stuff via this and this which doesn't show up on ordinary Google searches. (I've added several of the articles as refs.) Best,Voceditenore 11:56, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what verifying entails. Is there a Wiki document on this? Or can you e-mail me some pointers? Michael Bednarek 07:33, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry - I usually try to avoid the jargon! It just means providing a source(s) that shows she is worth having in WP. (I thought you would be the best judge of this.) -- Kleinzach 07:50, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I put a notability tag on Fiona Keys on 9 August, but there was no reaction. I have now put it up for deletion. -- Kleinzach 00:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Notability (or lack of it) for two unreferenced singer articles