Talk:Turbo-folk

message: I am not disputing criticism or "cultural value" (whatever one may consider it), I'm disputing facts about what constitutes turbofolk. Anyone in the region considers turbofolk to be only what is mentioned in the article as one part of it: "musical style which is mix of pop music based song with elements of electronic music, Eurodance and hip-hop or other genres". As a genre it got defined in the '90s and didn't exist in the '80s, except some very rare proto-instances. What is mentioned from the '80s is its predecessor, officially called "novokomponovani" - "newly-composed" - music, often referred to as folk. The '90s version was more intense and qualitatively even worse in all aspects, hence the name turbofolk. Mentioning bands and artists like Magazin in this context is borderline offensive. Magazin is bad, cheap, commercial, partly consumed by the same type of people, but it's not turbofolk. (Izitpajn (talk) 10:04, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: This article is so structurally inaccurate that it needs to be deleted and rewritten from scratch

message: What part of the article is disputed? If you judge by the other internet sources about turbo-folk, which are 
almost universaly negative in their assesment, then the article may appear to be in contrast with them. However, you cannot base a fair account of turbo-folk on such sources alone. To be able to judge this topic you have to have some internal knowledge of the culture, and you cannot just dispute neutrality of some article without disputing any claims it makes.
*The article as it is seems to me to be more of an essay than an encyclopedia article, for example "the fact that this phenomenon represents a "fatal" imitation of global trends in popular culture". However, I was wrong to put the  on without being more specific, and also  seems to be more appropriate, so I'm now listing it there. — A.M. 18:42, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I partially disagree with the comment above. yes, you are right that the roots of turbo folk can be probably traced back to early Lepa Brena and Slatki Greh and other 1980s artists (artists?! ARTISTS?!), then also maybe the "hits" such as "Ne dolazi u moj san" etc. Still, the fact is that style wasn't still clearly defined and labeled as TURBO FOLK then, but it belonged to what was generaly labeled as "novokomponovana narodna muzika" ("newly composed folk songs"- thats not 100% authentic folklore and not spome serious artistic ethno music either, it can be described as "music for the simple masses" offtenly played by a combination of modern instruments - keyboards, guitars on one side and accordion, clarinet and other instruments that r  more closer to folk sound on the other. This "novokomponovana muzika" label encompasses performers that can be different from eachother, for example the singer Cune on one hand and Vesna Zmijanac on the other is of course not really a same thing). Both this old "novokomponovana" music and the contemporary TF have highly questionable artistic quality, the difference is that the turbofolk had pushed the limits of bad taste further to the extremes. Many would agree that the old-school singers such as Cune, Tozovac, Toma Zdravkovic, Miroslav Ilic and some others use to keep somewhat more dignified "level" of good taste, unlike the decadent cocaine-driven turbofolkers that followed afterwards. So according to this we can say that SOME of the artists from that "novokomponovana muzika" (not all of them) provided basis for the future development of the TF and some of them later joined that freshly invented style. Also, I highjly disagree with the statement that "Tito supported that 'neofolk'". Yes, some singers really did perform for him, but that means nothing, cause the rock band Bijelo Dugme, Zdravko Colic, Djordje Balashevic and many others who were pop-rock artists back then also did. In Yugoslavia's value system, "novokomponovana muzika" stood quite low, it was offten rightly criticised as kitsch, as a music for the rural or smalltown simpleminded uneducated lower parts of the society etc. Contrary to that, the authorities and the media mostly supported pop, rocknroll and similar stuff (lets not forget many of us grew up with pop-rock artists such as lets say Elektricni orgazam, Azra, Haustor, Riblja Corba, Prljavo Kazaliste, then with children shows such as "Fore i fazoni" (incl. music by Labaratorija zvuka) or "Bushava azbuka" (with music by Leb i sol) etc. Undoubtely Brena, Dragana, Jashar Ahmedovski and others were indeed in the the media a lot, but that was considered as cheap brainless entertainment. Rarely such a "neofolk"  artist could sign for a major label such as Jugoton or PGP-RTB in the past, unless he/she was really proven as very popular. Instead, completely irelevant labels such as "Diskos -Aleksandrovac" were known for producing such records. I think I explained what was the general status of that neofolk music in the former Tito's Yugoslavia (while Slobodan Milosevic's Yugoslavia after 1992 is something completely different).--Vbb-sk-mk 13:10, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed

message: Estavisti, what do you now dispute in the article? You shouldn't just put the tag and go away—t least, state your objections on the talk page. It was rewritten pretty much from scratch, mostly by User:Zvonko, few months ago because the old version portrayed it more or less as a fascistic movement. If you don't pinpoint the specific issues, I'm gonna remove it in few days. Duja 02:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Npov, again? 

message: QUOTE: Still, turbo-folk had a considerable following among the urban youth, with no parallels in its Balkan commercial folk predecessor. Dizelaši (as they were called, due to their fondness for Diesel clothing), a new stratum of young men favouring a healthy, sporty lifestyle and macho values, widely embraced turbo folk and were for years its core audience.
Although its true that the followers of this kitschy trend called turbofolk want to present it as "healthy national(istic?) music and lifestyle" contrary to the urban subcultures of rockers, punks, clubbers etc. who are perceived as "bunch of junkies and homosexuals.." and their music as "foreign", the turbofolk scene and its following is not at all drug-free. Oncontrary, many TF artists (artists?!) are known for their use of narcotics (a good example would be Aca Lukas who publicly admits his cocaine addiction and has been arrested for drugs and firearms possesion in 2003). Also I would reffer here to the well known movie  RANE(awarded at the Stockholm and Thessaloniki Film Festivals) which among other things also shows the drug abuse in that gangster world of the Belgrade "diesel boys". Thats why I think that something about the drugs in the Turbofolk should be added in the article, beacuse the stories about "drug-free turbofolk" are nothing but myths --Vbb-sk-mk 13:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turbofolk and drugs 

message: What is the difference between Turbo Folk and Planet Folk(ery)? I'm from the Netherlands, so it is hard for me to know the difference (since we don't really have these kinds of music). The article of Elena Risteska mentioned something about Planet Folk, but that's all I can find on this topic on Wikipedia. --84.104.123.100 21:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Turbo Folk/ Planet Folk: the difference?

message: Classification shouldn't be according to "left", "right", "blue", "yellow" or any kind of "wings", but it should be according to the issues. And there are no some fictional groups which things something, but persons with their positions and their quotes or so. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 14:28, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classification of criticism 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Ceca on Pink1.jpg

message: I just added two books under references, and btw i highly recommended them to anyone who would like to understand more about the subject. Quote from Matthew Collin: This is Serbia calling, p.78-84:
:"War had its heroes and its villains; its look and its smell. And it had its own sound, too: a local electro-ethnic hybrid called turbo-folk. Turbo-folk was indigenous Balkan disco, a gloopy melange of chirpy techno-pop and traditional folk melodies, a naive recreation of an imagined West gleaned from MTV, mixed with resynthesised relics of village life. It was optimistic and patriotic, modern yet nostalgic, tugging at the heartstrings of rural folk who left Serbia's farmlands in search of big-city prosperity, poor wistful refugees arriving in Belgrade on the run from Bosnia, and soldiers cought up in the conflicting emotions of wartime. (...)
:State television promoted it because it banished thoughts of bad things, of hyperinflation. (...) It created an imaginary world, suggested American writer Eric D. Gordy, full of 'images of glamour, luxury and the "good life" – a world populated by young women in miniskirts who drive luxury automobiles, live in fantastically spacious homes, and spend their time in fashionable hotel bars'. Or as one Belgrader puts it, less politely: 'Turbo-folk said work less, earn more, cheat and steal, fuck a lot, drive a stolen Golf GTi, enjoy life!' (...)
:For Belgrade's young urbanities, driven further and further into an underground, bunker mentality, turbo-folk meant war, isolation and the shrill hysteria of nationalism. It was the deathly rattle of Milošević, of the paramilitaries and the profiteers – the new ruling class who had ruined their city, their culture and their lives.. (...)
:It even manifested itself in architecture; in the high kitsch abodes of war profiteers and gangsters like Arkan, their tacky combinations of expensive stone and mirrored glass shameless signifiers of ill-gotten gains. Borka Pavičević calls them 'turbo houses' – built with bloody cash and designed to flaunt it. (...)
:Despite the fact that the former Yugoslav republics were at war with each other, turbo-folk succeeded in crossing the frontlines and became popular all over the region. Many Serbian hits were actually recorded in Croatia, ostensibly an enemy state, including the greatest ot them all, It's Almost Midnight – its title if nothing else a succinct summation of the apocalyptic feeling of the times."
Another good essay is Eric Gordy's The Culture of Power in Serbia, of which some extracts can be found at http://books.google.com/books?id=WqoZsrmYZQIC
I hope this will help to base the article on reliable sources. --Irina666 (talk) 00:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Some valuable references

message: It should be noted that many rock and pop musicians also took a part in creating turbo-folk, mostly Futa, Milic Vukasinovic, Oliver Mandic and Bora Djordjevic. Marina Tucakovic, as main turbo-folk author, was notably songwriter for many pop, rock and disco acts. Some bands, as Osvajaci or Prslook Band become turbo-folk with aim to earn some money.
"Turbo folk emerged when rock stars begin to work with folk stars" is said buy some folk singer, I cannot remember.
Also, TF gained popularity trough Vanja Bulic's ZAM on 3K(followed by EuroPink on Pink TV), which is still model for Grand Show, Grand Parada, Bravo Show, etc...
Early TF video's was produced by Stanko Crnobrnja, with rotating pictures and neon frames.
It should be noted that Lepa Brena and Slatki Greh combined disco of ABBA with folk. Also, it should be noted turbo-folk origins in "Rokeri s Moravu" music (although they, however, haven't been rock group). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.222.163.250 (talk) 09:15, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hungry rock musicians as originators of turbo-folk 

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thread_title: File:Grafit protiv turbofolka,Imotski01848.JPG Nominated for Deletion

message: I am surprised that this article has such a great dispute. I agree there are some things that should be cleaned up, but I do not agree that the article is bias or false in any way. 
However, I must add that there is one thing missing in the article: a reference to what may be taken as the basic "recipe" for turbo-folk. Lepa Brena made a song in 80's called Disko Urnebes (Disco Chaos), and here is the lyric of the song (including the best translation I could provide; there was no English translation I could find on the web):
Prodaj Cale kucu staru 
kupi novu dugmetaru 
ja cu suknju od najlona 
da dodjem do mikrofona
Lova, lova, lova 
padace sa krova
Ref. 
Suknjom sitno 
okicama kres 
pravicemo, pravicemo 
disko urnebes
Pusti ralo i motiku 
narod voli erotiku 
obuci me minimalno 
da se vidim maksimalno
Lova, lova, lova 
padace sa krova
Ref.
Naci cemo muzikante 
i ostale folirante 
sad smo pravi veseljaci 
pevaci smo narodnjaci
Lova, lova, lova 
padace sa krova
Ref.
Translation: 
Sell, Cale, the old house
Buy new button accordion
I will buy the skirt from nylon
To get to the microphone
Money, money, money
Will be falling from the rooftops
Ref.
Slowly move the skirt, 
wink with the eyes,
we will make, we will make
disco chaos
Let go plow and hoe
people likes erotics
dress me with as less as you can (referred to cloths)
to show me as much as you can (referred to skin)
Money, money, money
Will be falling from the rooftops
Ref.
We will find musicians
and other phonies
now we are cheerful people
singers of populist music
Money, money, money
Will be falling from the rooftops
Ref.
(Lyrics taken from site: http://kdletras.com/lepa-brena/disko-urnebes)
The latter turbo-folk music in 90's will be reflecting exactly what was described in this song, and what was already mentioned in the article. Even though there are singers who stepped away from this original idea, I must say that most of the women singers had the similar start in their careers of turbo-folk in Serbia:
1. They came from small towns or villages in Serbia to Belgrade (references: Dragana Mirkovic born in village near Požarevac; [] born in village of Žitorađa; [Babić Sneki] born in small town of Pančevo - they have let go the plow and the hoe
2. They had long legs and short skirts and were coquette on the stage and in videos (video references: Dragana Mirkovic; Ceca; Sneki; Jelena Karleusa - nylon skirts, minimally dressed and showing a lot of skin.
3. They had very little to none musical education (look at all previous references plus [Karleuša]; there is no mentioning of their musical or other education. Furthermore, for Jelena Karleusa is clear that she never completed high school
4. They were not writing music nor text of the songs they were singing. In fact, this information is very difficult to find for some reason, but it is also not known (there is no evidence to confirm) that any of the turbo-folk singers made any of their musics or songs
5. They had no named bands that were playing with them. (In case of Lepa Brena, she had a band called Slatki Greh (Sweet Sin), but other mail and female singers of turbo-folk had only background music, but no named bands that were playing with them)
6. Most of them have big companies, like football clubs, production or edition companies, as well as houses in Serbia and in foreign countries. 
All of that concludes that they were elaborate puppets for the people to focus more on publicly allowed erotics and less on political and other problems in the 80's and 90's.
Reading the text http://www.6yka.com/novost/35506/sta-znaci-turbo-folk (I am sorry it is not in English) is quite clear that:
I am putting part of the text here, with my own translation:
Muško-ženski stil u turbo-folku od muškarca je očekivao da bude opasan, robustan, muževan. Nešto kasnije uveden je još jedan, prateći model muškarca, namenjen najmlađoj populaciji: površnog, feminiziranog, i obučenog po poslednjoj modi. Dominantni tip muškarca u turbo-folku jeste mačo , koji vozi skupa i brza kola, nosi mobilni telefon a po potrebi može da potegne i pištolj. Nosi crna i siva odela, crnu kožu ili najskuplju sportsku garderobu (inostranih robnih marki). Njegovu osnovnu preokupaciju i sistem vrednosti čini novac , na bilo koji način stečen. On je kriminalac ili, češće, novi srpski biznismen . Žene služe tome da ih on ,,troši”, ili, s druge strane, da se fascinira do obožavanja njihovim ,,vamp” izgledom. U ženi koju izabere za svoju saputnicu – najviše su na ceni folk-pevačice – obožava sopstvenu snagu i moć. Mladi muškarac prinuđen je da prihvati ovakav nasilnički obrazac muške seksualnosti da bi u takvom svetu potvrdio svoju muškost.
Žena u turbo-folku je poželjni objekat i roba . Ona svojim izgledom treba da privuče muškarca, da ga uzbudi. Njena privlačnost treba da potvrdi status muškarca u čijem je društvu, ili, pak, da predstavlja potencijalni statusni simbol u muškarčevom odsustvu, uz pomoć večernjih haljina, uske crne garderobe, odeće poznatih modnih kreatora (svetskih robnih marki), skupe obuće i nakita, ili pak svetlucavih mini kič-kompleta. Ovakvom izgledu se na samom kraju milenijuma (1999-2000) pridodaju silikonske grudi i efekti plastičnih hirurških intervencija na licu, kao modni hit, u cilju postizanja što ,,savršenijeg” izgleda. Izuzetno popularne manekenke sa pevačicama dele medijski prostor i stil. Usled siromaštva i raspada moralnih normi dolazi do zabrinjavajuće prostituizacije žene u medijima. Ova moda konstantno se plasira na televiziji, i u nedostatku boljeg identifikacionog obrasca u ovim kriznim vremenima sledi je zapanjujuće veliki broj, pre svega mladih, žena, kojima televizija nudi iluziju brzo dostižne slave i statusa.
Translation:
The male-female style of turbo folk: from males was expected that they have dangerous, tough, and very male look and style. Later on, additional and accompanying style was added, directed to younger audience: superficial, effeminate and dressed by the latest fashion designs. The dominant type of males in turbo folk is the macho type, who drives expensive and fast cars, carries mobile phones and if needed, he can also draw a gun. He is wearing black or gray clothes, or black leather, or the most expensive sport clothes (of foreign sport brands). His main focus and value system is money, regardless on how it is obtained. He is a criminal, or more frequent, new Serbian businessman. Women are used to be "spent", or for him to be fascinated up to worshiping of their "vamp" look. In the woman he chooses for his life companion (the most frequent choice is a turbo-folk singer) he adores his own strength and power. A young male is forced to adopt this bully pattern of male sexuality if he wants to confirm his male-hood in such world.
Woman in turbo-folk is a desired object and good. She should attract and excite man with her looks. Her attractiveness must confirm the status of the man she is accompanying, or to represent a potential status symbol in man company, with help of her evening gowns, tight black clothes, clothes of world famous fashion designers, expensive clothes and jewelry, or through flashy and reflective mini kitsch sets. By the end of 90's, to this look is also added a set of silicon breasts and effects of various plastic face surgeries, as a "fashion detail" and with goal to obtain the perfect look. Very popular models and singers are sharing the same media space and style. There is a high level of prostitution of women in media due to increasing poverty and degradation of moral norms. This new fashion is constantly presented on TV and due to lack of other role models, there is an amazingly huge number of followers in these difficult times, first of all young women, to whom television offers the illusion of how quickly obtainable are glory and social status. 
Due to all this, and going back to Lepa Brena's song, the brain is not the required component of the turbo-folk singers and performers. They are only a poor people from countrysides who accepted to deform their look for a lot of money and to be presented to suffering nation as role models and idealism to be followed, through erotic looks, fake attitudes, mixing folkloric sounds with new rhythms and instruments from pop and rock, thus creating a perfect cross-generation link and having mass popularity. During all that time, political, economical, educational, cultural and other problems, including the war, were going on almost unnoticed by the general population, up until 2000.
I know that my own presentation is not very good and is missing a lot of sources and information, but I would like to see this reviewed and possibly included in the main text, as it will explain some of the disputed content.
200.30.249.52 (talk) 03:23, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins of Turbo-Folk 

message: Ąnαșταη There is a similar style in Albania but it is not called "Turbo-folk. This part is in the lede. Ktrimi991 (talk) 13:25, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turbo-folk In Albania 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Category:Turbo-folk compilation albums]]