Talk:Evolution/Objectionstoevolution

message: A number of extended articles that address various creationist attacks be constructed, with themes such as
*evolution is science, not religion, but creationism is not science
*evolution is falsifiable, but creationism is not
*evolution is both a theory and a fact 
*evolution is supported by the vast majority of scientists
*evolution has been observed
and so on. These articles would be stuffed with references and links to relevant websites. 
The evolution website include only a very small controversy/confusion/misconception/defense section with summary sentences of the main points, and links to the extended articles. 
An overarching article, maybe like the controversy article be produced to organize and present the material, as well as provide links to the extended articles. 
Other articles such as "hypocrisy of creationists" (or "biblical errancy") are possible, demonstrating that literal belief in biblical accounts would require a stationary earth, a flat earth, a square earth, problems with tree rings and coral rings and layers of benthic sediments and dynamo theory and the value of pi and knowledge of teleomeres and optical refraction  and Doppler shifts and a huge amount of other similar things. Basically, if one accepts the bible as literally true in all aspects, one has to deal with several hundred thousand documented mistakes and inconsistencies and then a huge volume of disagreements with scientific predictions, like the sphericity of the earth. Of course, what is common is that even biblical inerrancy advocates only believe PARTS of the bible are inerrant, and reject or interpret the parts they disagree with in whatever way they choose. This is what I call the hypocrisy. Either the bible is a scientific text, or it is not. You cannot claim that evolution is wrong but then ignore all the other conflicts with science in the bible or sweep them under the carpet.--Filll 19:15, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Here is my suggestion for dealing with creationists 

message: Hello, Filll. I read with some interest the debate and discussion that you and Phil Rayment were having on his talk page regarding the nature of religion and whether science/scientific thinking is a religion by its nature. To preface this, I am certain that you have devoted a great deal of time to this line of thought, as evidenced by your discussion.
:A professor that I was close to in college once observed to me during a Philosophy of Religion course that the world's religions were diverse in almost every possible way- comparing Confucianism to Islam, or Hinduism to Judaism, it was pretty apparent, on consideration. The intriguing thing that he worked it down to in front of the class, was that the only connecting factor he (or I) could think of was this: that all religions as we know them have in common the idea of salvation from the human condition. All major religions seem to share it, from primal religions in which the salvation was often from mythical spirits or natural events, to the christian idea of salvation in an afterlife, to the buddhist idea of salvation from the cycle of living and dying, all seem to have this theme (and perhaps only this theme) in common. Many share a moral system, but not all do. Many share belief in a god or gods, but not all do. Religions have many faces, few in common, but all do appear to have that one.
:Now, as that ties in to your argument with PR, science notably does not share these similar things with religion. It does not offer a moral system, and it does not offer salvation from a condition. Scientific thinking is a philosophy, not a religion, and the distinction between the two is important to remember, particularly when arguing nomenclature and "what's what". Hope you found some of this helpful. --HassourZain 20:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What is a science?

message: ===Some Presbyterian thoughts..===
Just shows what turns up with a bit of searching: American Scientist Online – Being Stalked by Intelligent Design recounts being pestered with "e-mails asking how I explained this or that... I answered him time and again—until I realized  that he was reading neither my answers nor the references I  suggested." Sounds familiar, gives a neat summary of ID. More on topic, Johnson is an elder of First Presbyterian Church in Berkeley, but according to AiG the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) passed a resolution by a vote of 353-150 reaffirming its support of evolutionary theory in 2002. A 1998 panel survey found rather mixed results, with most supporting evolution but not believing in humans developing from earlier species of animals. More generally,Churches urged to challenge Intelligent Design  -20/02/06 had ministers preaching that followers of Christ do not have to choose between biblical stories of creation and evolution at Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Unitarian, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ, Baptist and community churches. Must tidy this up and add some to theistic evolution. A Christian argument against ID: A More Intelligent Design, "At the end of the day, 'intelligent design theory,' fails not because there is no Designer, but because the God implied by such theories is not intelligent enough." ... dave souza, talk 21:34, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Presbeterians and evolution, ID, etc.

message: Just shows what turns up with a bit of searching: American Scientist Online – Being Stalked by Intelligent Design recounts being pestered with "e-mails asking how I explained this or that... I answered him time and again—until I realized  that he was reading neither my answers nor the references I  suggested." Sounds familiar, gives a neat summary of ID. More on topic, Johnson is an elder of First Presbyterian Church in Berkeley, but according to AiG the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) passed a resolution by a vote of 353-150 reaffirming its support of evolutionary theory in 2002. A 1998 panel survey found rather mixed results, with most supporting evolution but not believing in humans developing from earlier species of animals. More generally,Churches urged to challenge Intelligent Design  -20/02/06 had ministers preaching that followers of Christ do not have to choose between biblical stories of creation and evolution at Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Unitarian, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ, Baptist and community churches. Must tidy this up and add some to theistic evolution. A Christian argument against ID: A More Intelligent Design, "At the end of the day, 'intelligent design theory,' fails not because there is no Designer, but because the God implied by such theories is not intelligent enough." ... dave souza, talk 21:34, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Some Presbyterian thoughts..