Talk:Pedophilia/Archive 2

message: Yesterday I went to Berlin's meeting of Wikipedians and spoke with the head of the German Wikipedia organization, Kurt Jansson. He said that the problems with the articles related to pedophilia and abuse were well known for quite some time and probably started with a posting in a forum for pedophiles about Wikipedia as a great opportunity to spread the message that sex with adults is helpful for children. He already mentioned it in an interview with a newspaper in order to increase awareness of the problem. In the German pages the most notorious abuser is de:Benutzer:Mondlichtschatten, his English version - or at least one of them - is user:Moon_light_shadow. Here user:Zanthalon seems to play the main role. Checking their contribution lists tells easily which articles need a complete rewrite: List of self-identified pederasts and pedophiles, Childlove movement, pedophilia, Child sexuality, Child pornography, Child sexual abuse, Capturing the Friedmans, Rind et al.. I put the German articles on the list of articles that lack neutrality and need more care - the latter was immediately reverted by guess who. Please help taking care of the trouble. Get-back-world-respect 12:31, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Child sexual abuse]]

message: I removed this paragraph:
:Some western cultures today, in particular the United States, strongly condemn underage sex and regard it as a very serious crime, based on the idea that children are not sufficiently mature to be able to provide informed consent to sex and that sex with children is therefore statutory rape. In other countries, however, sexual relations with children are criminalised only when violence and coercion are involved. 
The paragraph does not distinguish between pedophilia (the subject of this article) and ephebophilia, which it seems to refer to. The term "informed consent" is inappropriate, the issue in sexual matters is ability to give consent, period. The paragraph says "some western cultures" and singles out the US, and doesn't specify the "other" countries where underage sex is not criminal, nor the ages of those covered. And there is no citation whatever. -- Cecropia | Talk 06:26, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paragraph on condemnation of underage sex 

message: I wonder if there should be a notation that the Pedophile Liberation Front (Archive) is a dead site that has not been maintained in five years or so. I would think that a section on such links should only include current sites, therefore removing the PLF and including something in its place like MARTIJN or IPCE. --Zanthalon 18:15, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Pedophile Liberation Front (Advocacy Links)

message: Somebody added a reference to a NAWGLA (North American Woman/Girl Love Association). As far as I know, no such group exists. I do know that a number of columnists have referred to Butterfly Kisses, a now-defunct website for women attracted to girls as a "NAMBLA auxiliary" or "something like a NAWGLA", but no such organization has ever actually been formed. --Zanthalon ,  23:42, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: NAWGLA

message: I'm not sure where mr world respect gets his info, but he needs to read Child sexuality (w/o rewriting it, that is ;) Sam [Spade] 01:22, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Child sexuality 

message: Most of the content was shared between the two articles; the references and see-also sections needed merging; and ephebophilia only deserves its own article inasmuch as it is associated with pedophilia.  Merged talk included below.  +sj+ 15:02, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Merging Ephebophilia

message: Hello. List of self-identified pederasts and pedophiles was deleted per vfd discussion. I deleted the redirect List of self-identified pedophiles. Since there was a long talk page, Talk:List of self-identified pedophiles, instead of deleting it, I moved it to Talk:Pedophilia/List of self-identified pedophiles. I hereby announce that it's someone else's problem now. Wile E. Heresiarch 03:33, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved [[Talk:List of self-identified pedophiles]] 

message: Am I the only one who finds "Abuse is mainly a phenomenon of heterosexual and homosexual orientation" to be completely worthless?  It would seem that someone originally made a jab at homosexuals, but someone later added the hetero part in. (Yes, I'm too lazy to look at the history).  It's like saying that breathing is a phenomenon of males and females. -- PseudonympH 19:55, 2005 Jan 12 (UTC)
=== Clarification ===
In the context in which this definition is used, it would seem to be implying "adult orientation", as opposed to the base meaning of "hetero" (different) and "homo" (same) sex orientation. And would seem to be indirectly referencing quotes from various researched journals, and interviews, by various people, such as Kenneth Lanning (retired, FBI). If it is required, these can be dug up, but I'd rather not be the one to spend my time searching.
--LuxOfTKGL 19:40, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  I don't get it 

message: In the context in which this definition is used, it would seem to be implying "adult orientation", as opposed to the base meaning of "hetero" (different) and "homo" (same) sex orientation. And would seem to be indirectly referencing quotes from various researched journals, and interviews, by various people, such as Kenneth Lanning (retired, FBI). If it is required, these can be dug up, but I'd rather not be the one to spend my time searching.
--LuxOfTKGL 19:40, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification 

message: is more related to "Ephebophilia", I think we should move it from her to the right place. --Haham hanuka 14:14, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  section "Cultural norms" 

message: Forget about anime with high pink-factor miniskirt schoolgirls of 4 foot legs. Japanese paedo is bloody serious.
The 36-year-old newspaper delivery man Kobajasi Kauru asked to be executed while tried for the Nov. 2004 murder-rape of a seven-year-old girl. He took mobile camera phone pictures of her cadaver and sent them to his mother with a message he will kill her sister. The guy said he was proud to have gained national fame and he has achieved his life's aim and has no reason to live any more. Previously he was imprisoned for attempted murder of a 5 year-old-girl in 1991 and several counts of child molestation.
Also don't forget the kindergarten massacres in Japan! The Wiki article should make it clear that paedos are murderous animals and deserve no mercy. We must eliminate them from the human gene pool.
:Just so you know, this is murder case you've described... we can worry about the violations of sexual moralities and other obsessions of westerners at a later time. Sweetfreek 21:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Sweetfreek, the moron who started this section comes from a hysterical country, most likely the UK, where hateful violent people just like him tried to burn a family to death, including three young children, because they "love paedos." 
http://www.stockportexpress.co.uk/news/s/204/204194_lucky_to_be_alive_after_arson_attack_.html 11:44, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese paedo situation is not so funny! 

message: "Also don't forget the kindergarten massacres in Japan! The Wiki article should make it clear that paedos are murderous animals and deserve no mercy. We must eliminate them from the human gene pool."
Yet we can bring up more than a hundred fold times the amount of murders, rapes, physical, mental, sexual abuse perpetraited by non-pedophiles against children (for instance: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/girls_dead).
--LuxOfTKGL 19:42, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blatent disregard for sense 

message: Is there any criteria for a site to be listed in the Advocacy of Pedophilia section? 
At least, could a person who "revises" the section by removing links, at least provide a reason on the discussion page.
--LuxOfTKGL 20:45, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advocacy of Pedophilia 

message: * Added a literature link to the IPT-Forensics article [Special Problems with Sexual Abuse Cases], however, I am unsure whether or not this would be more appropriate elsewheres (for instance in any Sexual Abuse sections instead). --LuxOfTKGL 20:50, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literature 

message: Sexual acts between adults and prepubescent children are both a taboo and a crime in many cultures because, among other reasons:
1. prejudice against childlovers;''
This seems like POV to me, but before deleting it I thought I should ask for other opinions. Ketsuban (is 1337) 19:39, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV? 

message: Where did that Chronophilia rubbish come from, and how did it remain in the Pedophilia article for so long? 
Pedophilia has nothing to do with Chronophilia, other than it being classed as a paraphilia.
--LuxOfTKGL 21:54, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chronophilia rubbish 

message: Why is this being removed?:
:"One highly publicized case of pedophilia is that of Michael Jackson."
His case is highly publicized. But admins keep calling it "vandalism," which doesn't make any sense. Perhaps they are just Michael Jackson fans that completely ignore fact.  →  JarlaxleArtemis 02:19, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
:I think the problem is that you can interpret that sentence in two ways; one case where pedophilia happened, or one case where there was an accusation of pedophilia. The most direct interpretation seems to be the first. If you fudge the sentence a bit so the second interpretation becomes explicit, the problem with it will probably go away. --cesarb 02:24, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The case is of child molestation, not pedophilia. Pedophilia is not a crime. 24.224.153.40 16:59, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Publicized Case 

message: Don't French and Brazillian folks usually use words in French and Portugeuse, not English words?  The note on how this word is used in those countries seems out of place. Perhaps this is supposed to refer to an obvious cognate in these languages? -- Beland 07:42, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign language usage 

message: Misleading text in this section was moved to Ephebophilia. Don't put it back here. --Haham hanuka 12:19, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: After looking at the text, I agree - the sections you've moved do belong in Ephebophilia, not here. Good call.--Neural 21:56, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't. Attraction to 13 year olds can still be considered pedophilia (pubescence does not happen at any specific age), and lolicon often depicts prepubescent girls. How is this misleading? 24ip | lolol 17:46, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culture norms