Talk:Spina bifida

message: I recently removed the spina bifida cystica subsection under the "Classification" header. Since SB cystica and SB myelomeningocele (described in a separate subsection) are essentially the same type of the condition, I found it confusing to have two separate subsections in the Classification section. The current edition of the page will hopefully provide more concise, less confusing information for readers. - Cholbein  —Preceding undated comment added 19:11, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of SB Cystica

message: The comment on Irish immigrants seems odd to me. I have not read the sources, but I suspect they are location specific. Is it contrasting Irish immigrants to some other place with locals of that other place, or is it contrasting Irish immigrants to Irish residents? Those are two completely different things.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Victor Engel (talk • contribs) 16:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Irish Immigrants?

message: An anon IP, User:98.164.112.86, added the paragraph:The August tenth issue of The New Yorker magazine 2009 featured a story "War Dances" by Sherman Alexie which has as narrator an unnamed character who suffered from the condition as a child. In the course of the story the character gives a personal definition of the illness as "'the obese, imperialistic water demon that nearly killed me when I was a baby.'"
The short story in question can be found here. I searched it and found no use of the word "bifida." The paragraph that the quote above came from reads in full:Merriam-Webster’s dictionary defines “hydrocephalus” as “an abnormal increase in the amount of cerebrospinal fluid within the cranial cavity that is accompanied by expansion of the cerebral ventricles, enlargement of the skull and especially the forehead, and atrophy of the brain.” I define “hydrocephalus” as “the obese, imperialistic water demon that nearly killed me when I was a baby.”Or in other words, the author was writing about hydrocephalus, not SB, so I've reverted the change. Dori ❦ (Talk ❖ Contribs ❖ Review) ❦ 02:10, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  SB in fiction 

message: Hi this section of unreferenced text causes me some concern:
The myelomeningocele (or perhaps the scarring due to surgery) tethers the spinal cord. In some individuals this causes significant traction on the spinal cord and can lead to a worsening of the paralysis, scoliosis, back pain, or worsening bowel and/or bladder function.[citation needed]
I understand how this may occurr however, I've never spoken to a neurosurgeon who has indicated this is significant!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.42.251.3 (talk) 03:38, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a cite. Roger (talk) 14:44, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Nicely done! Kingturtle (talk) 14:45, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Tethered cord 

message: Some of the people listed appear to be of doubtful notability, they don't seem to qualify in terms of the notabiliy guideline. I'm inclined to delete entries that do not have either a wikilinked biographical article here on WP or a reliable citation. Roger (talk) 14:13, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: the only notable people listed should be those who have Wikipedia articles. Kingturtle = (talk) 15:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am now removing all redlinked listings that don't have proper cites. They have been tagged as uncited for almost a year! Roger (talk) 06:52, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable people 

message: I've read somewhere that stem cells could be used to cure the nerve damage, but I have no idea of how advanced it is or even if it's a real chance.
Anybody knows about it? I think it's an important information that should be included in the article, if it's true. 82.158.252.62 (talk) 20:26, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could stem cells be used to treat spina bifida? 

message: "If the opening is large enough, thFGDG is allows aHGF JHJportion ofJ FJd."
This is either vandalism or a real cock-up, unfortunately I don't know enough about this subject to know how this sentence should end. 
I get the feeling this can just be reverted, but I don't know how that's done. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can chip in. 
86.131.53.38 (talk) 15:42, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Where is the stuff about Spina bifida on cats? --Zachc108 (talk) 09:29, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no mention of cats in the article. However, cats are mammals just like humans and embryo development of all mammals is essentially identical in the early stages when NTDs occur, so logically one could expect to find cats (and other mamals) with SB, though I imagine very few survive to maturity. If you have any reliable material about SB in cats, or any other mammals, maybe you could add a small section about it. Just be careful of giving it undue weight as this article is actually about SB in humans. Roger (talk) 15:18, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cats? 

message: This article is quite trustworthy, unbiased, quite complete, very well-written,and very accurate. I would suggest adding in something about comorbid psychological diagnoses  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsilton (talk • contribs) 03:15, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Review 

message: In order to avoid an edit war the dispute about the section heading needs to be discussed. 
I am coming to this article from a disability rights point of view. (I'm one of the founders of WP:WikiProject Disability). I also happen to have SB myself. I find the use of the term "cases" to be very offensive. It also completely flies in the face of the generally accepted Social model of disability. 
The people listed in the section are notable not merely because they happen to have SB, they are notable due to their professional, sporting or other achievements. Therefor it is incorrect to refer to them as merely "cases" as if they are laboratory specimens in pickle jars. Roger (talk) 19:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: They are notable cases not just notable people. But would be happy to hear what others have to say.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:56, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Being a person trumps being a case. Doc James, your post is a perfect example of why the Medical model of disability is evil. The people listed are WP:Notable (in the Wikipedia sense of the word) not merely because they happen to have SB, they are notable neurosurgeons, musicians, athletes, politicians, etc. Most of them achieved notability in spite of having SB, they are not notable for being "cases". I repeat - they are not specimens in jars. Roger (talk) 20:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

text: I agree with Failedwizard here, that "notable case" presumably concentrates on an aspect of the condition or its treatment. It is not automatically an incorrect term to use (or at least should not be regarded as such), but for this usage "notable examples" may be a better choice. I imagine it would also be improper to regard the person concerned as "notable" merely because they have SB. Thus we may create a WP article about a notable crime, but do not create an article about the victim of that crime if that is the only reason why they have come to public notice. If we have one section title covering a combination of cases or examples and notable people, then we should probably accept that "cases" would not be right, and perhaps "people" should be used if the section mentions notable people ("trumping" as Roger has said). --Mirokado (talk) 22:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Notable people" versus "Notable cases" 

message: The image is of an apparently normal spine - no sign of SB is evident. Is this image really useful and relevant in this article? Roger (talk) 13:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This image is at present the best evidence of absence of SB in prenatal screening (Besides the banana and lemon singns as indirect markers)--Moroderen (talk) 22:07, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you may be missing my point. In an article about for example Apples we do not include photos of Pears to illustrate "this is what 'not an apple' looks like". I think an ultrasound image that does show an SB lesion would be better. I might be able to obtain such an image and probably also a photo of a lesion taken shortly after birth. Roger (talk) 07:32, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not agree, because apples are not a variant of pears while desease is a variant of normality with bad consequences. In screening, recognising a normal spine has two effects: for the doctor it is a way to understand how an abnormal spine looks like (a model), for the pregnant woman a way to be assured. I will anyhow provide a gallery of pictures of the  lemon and banana signs and a video of a mielomeningocele in the fetus. Regards --Moroderen (talk) 12:21, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultrasound image of fetal spine 

message: The article contains conflicting information about how common spina bifida is. In the section "Classification : Spina Bifida Occulta", it is stated that %10 of the population has this form of spina bifida. I do not believe this to be true. The reference for that information ([4] Saluja PG (1988). "The incidence of spina bifida occulta in a historic and a modern London population". J Anat. 158: 91–93. PMC 1261979. .) is from a study of two London populations, and as such are not indicative of the world population, nor does the referenced research claim to provide an accurate percentage with regards to the London population as a whole.
In the section "Classification : Myelomeningocele", myelomeningocele is purported to be the most common type of spina bifida. The research article referenced ([11] "Myelomeningocele". NIH. Retrieved 2008-06-06.) states that 1 per 800 births has this defect. This is far less than the %10 that the wikipedia article currently claims have spina bifida occulta.
Could someone double-check me on that, and make appropriate changes (I'm not sure how to resolve this. Removing a misused, but referenced 'fact' seems extreme, but that's what I'd be inclined to do.)
Golond (talk) 04:47, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Firstly Myelomeningocele is not Occulta - in fact they are the opposite extremes of the Spina Bifida spectrum. Occulta is not normally counted as a birth defect - it is almost never diagnosed neonatally. When it is diagnosed at all, it is mostly discovered incidentally later in life. I hope this helps to reolve the apparent conflict. Roger (talk) 07:20, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflicting statistics 

message: The article SOURCE for Mellencamp is a broken link, so there is no article sourcing that Mellencamp actually has S.B. Stopde (talk) 13:30, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I replaced it. Actually the list doesn't really need cites because the linked articles contain the necessary information anyway. Roger (talk) 12:36, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mellencamp 

message: Under Prevention can we say how much the incidence of SB is reduced by folic acid/folate supplementation ? Causes of spina bifida (NHS choices) says it may reduce it by 'up to' 70%. - Rod57 (talk) 11:07, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Effect of folic acid 

message: What can we say about correlation of incidence with environmental pollutants ? eg Some claim higher incidence in war regions with use of depleted uranium. - Rod57 (talk) 10:56, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Epidemiology - environmental pollutants

message: Birth defects says "...increased risk of having a baby with spina bifida. These conditions include (2,3): Obesity, Poorly controlled diabetes,    Treatment with certain anti-seizure medications"
(2: American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG). Neural Tube Defects. ACOG Practice Bulletin, number 44, July 2003 (reaffirmed 2008).
3: Fichter, M.A., et al. Fetal Spina Bifida Repair – Current Trends and Prospects of Intrauterine Neurosurgery. Fetal Diagnosis and Therapy, 2008, volume 23, pages 271-286. )
Spina bifida, risk factors (Mayo clinic) mentions valproic acid (maybe due to antifolate activity) and elevated core temperature. - Rod57 (talk) 11:31, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Epidemiology - associations/causes

message: This ref does support the number for the us 
The other ref says "Spina bifida occulta is a common spectrum condition, present in approximately 5% of the population"
Does not say US specifically 
Extra details that data from 2000-2004 can go in the body to keep the lead simplier. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:26, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: frequency

message: I have continued to remove the small primary sources from the main treatment section. There are secondary sources available and we should use them per WP:MEDRS. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:46, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Fetal surgery

message: I noticed that the lede suggests that learning problems are uncommon, referencing NIH, which, in turn, references the March of Dimes, which seems to say just the opposite.  In the body of the article, the statement:   "In one study, 60% of children with spina bifida were diagnosed with a learning disability..." suggests that learning problems are NOT at all uncommon.  Does anybody know which it is?  Desoto10 (talk) 05:06, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Learning Problems 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Spina bifida. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20081019175811/http://content.nejm.org:80/cgi/pmidlookup?view=short&pmid=17409324&promo=ONFLNS19 to http://content.nejm.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=short&pmid=17409324&promo=ONFLNS19
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 02:35, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The epidemiology section currently states "In the United States [spina bifida] affected about 0.7 per 1000 births" linking to this page. That article does not mention 0.7 per 1000 births, only that "About 1,500 infants are born with spina bifida each year in the United States", as of a study using data from 1999-2001. CDC also states 1,500 per year, citing this study from 2004-2006 (it's paywalled so I couldn't verify it correctly represents the article).
If 1,500 from 2006 is the latest data available, the rate should be compared against the total live births from that time. While the CDC's latest birth rate estimate is 3,988,076 as of 2014, the closest to 2006 is 4,138,349 from this page (via HHS) as of 2005.
So the latest US estimate should be 1,500 / 4,138,349 = 0.036%, or 0.36 per 1000 births, putting the US in line with the 0.4 estimate from other developed countries.
Is this the best data available, and if so should it be changed to reference the two separate figures (1,500 and 4.1M)?
Edit: actually this separate CDC page shows a rate of 17.99 per 100,000 (0.18 per 1,000) as of 2006, specifying 700 cases in that year. This conflicts with the CDC's other estimate of 1,500 per year as of a similar date. It's unclear which is more accurate.
MaxGhenis (talk) 05:12, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes looking at the underlying paper it givens a prevalence per 10,000 live births of 3.68. So that would be 0.4 per 1000. Updated. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:27, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  US prevalence 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Spina bifida. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://www.spinabifidaassociation.org/site/pp.aspx?c=liKWL7PLLrF&=2700309
*Added  tag to http://www.spinabifidaassociation.org/site/pp.aspx?c=liKWL7PLLrF&b=2700275
*Added  tag to http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/01558.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060927020340/http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/fa-af/index.html to http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/fa-af/index.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101219045513/http://www.gillettechildrens.org/default.cfm?PID=1.17.1.8 to http://www.gillettechildrens.org/default.cfm?PID=1.17.1.8
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Spina bifida. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090918145502/http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/wh-folic.html to http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/wh-folic.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:49, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: * "About 5% of people have spina bifida occulta."
* "The incidence of spina bifida occulta is approximately 10–20% of the population"
Maybe authors should be forced to read an article before they try to change it. - 91.10.19.237 (talk) 02:10, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup good point. Updated. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:23, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, but did you miss a spot? "About 5% of people have spina bifida occulta." - 91.10.19.18 (talk) 06:50, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup thanks. Also note that you are able to edit :-) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:50, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Quality Control 

message: Hiya, I'm not used to Wikipedia, but saw 'Spina bifida /ˌspaɪnə ˈbɪfɪdə/ (Latin for 'split spine'; SB) is a birth defect or a condition caught while flying coach on a US commercial airline,' and thought this was not right, obviously, I don't know how or if I should delete that but thought I'd bring it to attention. Espooners (talk) 18:07, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Espooners Thanks for alerting us, the vandalism has been reverted. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:12, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flying coach on a US airline 

message: — Assignment last updated by CarmenBraud (talk) 03:39, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Developmental and Molecular Biology Spring 2024

message: There is mention of a small relation between spina bifida and spontaneous miscarriage, though newer research has shown that is is not statistically significant. Additionally there is no citation for that claim CarmenBraud (talk) 00:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Screening