Talk:Homosexuality and Quakerism

message: This article earlier mentioned that FUM and EFI had taken official stances condemning homosexuality. I was unable to find any reference for an official condemnation in any FUM document available on their website. Unfortunately, the wikipedia article, which seems to be the source of the statement that FUM and EFI had offically condemned homosexuality, has been copied by so many other sites that it is hard to dig up anything of fact via google.
I've done my best to describe the FUM view on this (not at all a unified one), but this article could use a good amount of editing and expansion by people more familiar with the debates in those meetings.
:For you, I have hearsay from my monthly meeting. My understanding from this hearsay is that during the last triennial conference of FUM, representatives from Pacific Yearly Meeting (at least one of them) went to FUM and inquired about employees of FUM being fired for, well, I'm embarassed to report that FUM was taking this position at that time, for having sex outside of marriage, apparently because the person in question (and all of this is hearsay and I'm not party to any of the details) was having sex with eir monogamous partner of the same gender.   This was sex inside of a marriage that we in Pacific YM would have gladly celebrated and endorsed, but FUM fired the employee therefor.  If anyone would report to me that FUM is no longer taking such a stance against FUM's employees or potential employees, my heart would be gladdened to hear of it.  --arkuat (talk) 09:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: FUM and EFI

message: FUM has condemned gays and lesbians being in leadership roles.  They have done this in several minutes, including one in 1988.  Most recently, FUM has experienced some division from the three original FUM-FGC yearly meetings; most notably this is the case with Baltimore Yearly Meeting (BYM).  In 2002, BYM's then presiding clerk was excluded from leading a worship sharing group because he is in a committed relationship with another man.  This resulted in deep hurt for Baltimore Yearly Meeting, resulting in BYM bringing forth a minute expressing this hurt and concern.  FUM responded stating that its minute in 1988 states that gays and lesbians in active relationships are to be excluded from leadership positions.  From that point, Baltimore Yearly Meeting has been trying to continue a relationship with FUM while staying true to its position of equality for people regardless of sexual orientation.  At this time, BYM is developing an intervistation program. Artsygeek 09:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Artsygeek -- can you provide links to online versions of these minutes and any news coverage of these issues? We would need them before we can put any of this info in the article. Thanks! Sdedeo (tips) 10:11, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No Problemo....here's an epistle BYM sent out concerning the issue , Here's the minutes of the 2002 Annual Session, (see page 12), wherein BYM begins wrestling with this issue: . See Minute Y2003-32 on this page for a note about a minute from FUM in the works: .  See Minute I2003-35 on this page for said minute from FUM: .  BYM Friends Meetings began sending minutes to BYM around the time of Interim Meeting sessions in 2004: .  Several issues come up in the Summer Interim Meeting in 2004:  and at Annual Session 2004:  (Y2004-28). At fall sessions, 2004, Friends began considering how to fund FUM without funding its discrimination:  (I2004-35), there are reference to an Intervisitation program in Spring of 2005 (I2005-3) as well as the four-committee-committee convened to deal with budgetary issues related to this issue (I2005-7) .  At summer 2005 IM,  I2005-50, discusses other meetings' responses . I'll dredge up more of the stuff as I find it. (I may have to scan in (or, more likely just copy by hand) minutes from other Yearly Meetings on the issue if I can't find them on the net)  Artsygeek 17:40, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Several Yearly Meetings and one Monthly Meeting have expressed concern on this issue.  Saint Petersburg Monthly Meeting: , Southeastern Yearly Meeting expressing concern in their annual epistle: , Canadian Yearly Meeting wrote a minute to FUM: , New England Yearly Meeting wrote up a "Minute of Exercise" on the issue and reiterated it in 2005, followed by a revision: (05-37, 05-47, 05-49, 05-60).  Hope that helps Artsygeek 22:22, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  North America and FUM 

message: Missing any info at all. My feeling is that Latin American and African meetings, being of the programmed sort and mostly under the care of FUM and EFI share the views of those two meetings. But it would be very interesting to get some real information on this!
:I have visited with Friends in Africa and Latin America and can confirm that almost all who are part of ("under the care of" is incorrect terminology in this case) FUM and EFCI believe that homosexuality is a sin.  However, there are small and scattered unprogrammed meetings that tend towards the beliefs of European and liberal North American Friends.  I will look for some references and post this, if you like. --Shadowfax37 23:45, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Africa, Latin America, Asia

message: I found the language in the intro section to be confusing. It sounds like liberal = unprogrammed and conservative = programmed, which is not necessarilly true. And it sounds like liberal unprogrammed meetings are somehow "liberal" within the context of Quakerism, while programmed meetings are "conservative" within that context. But the programmed meetings are not conservative within that context, since they represent a departure from tradition and long-standing Quaker values of how a meeting should be. Those meetings which continue to be unprogrammed ("just like my momma and my grandpappy and my great-grandpappy before him") are actually "conservative" within the context of Quaker Sunday morning behavior. I think it will be good to make the point clearer that liberal/conservative are meant within a political context. So I am going to edit. Read it, somebody, please, and make sure it makes sense.  Sean Lotz  talk  17:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "It sounds like liberal = unprogrammed and conservative = programmed, which is not necessarilly true" -> ha! Especially since the Conservative YMs (OYM, NCYM(C), IYM(C) are all unprogrammed.  I do find it weird to lump those three in with FGC Friends just for sharing a worship style. Macoafi (talk) 20:40, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  liberal vs. conservative 

message: It seems to me that a link that appears as "Australia Yearly Meeting" should be about 'that' yearly meeting not yearly meetings in general.  Buzzilla (talk) 20:15, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor

message: I hope that my amendments have corrected the spin of as previous editor and not introduced more errors.  Vernon White . . . Talk  10:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Britain YM

message: Anyone know the stand of the Ohio Yearly Meeting?  It may be a valuable addition. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 03:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If you mean Ohio Yearly Meeting (Conservative), then their Book of Discipline does not mention the words homosexuality or gay. Ohio Valley YM BoD doesn't mention this topic either.Vernon White . . . Talk  21:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, meant the former.  The reason why I ask is that the hardcopy of their Book of Discipline didn't mention it specifically.   Looks like the latest one doesn't either.  If it can be found out either way, it would be a good addition. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 13:52, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Better ask them, then.  There's an email link on their main page. Vernon White . . . Talk  20:02, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, sounds like some research is in order.  IIRC, Hamm's Quakers in America has some references to the variance stances of the meetings.  I'll take a look. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 20:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  OYM? 

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