Talk:Cardinalidae

message: I don"t know anything about vandalisim or any of your other problems but I would like to add some interesting data I have witnessed about Cardinals. I live just east of Tampa. Fla and have two pairs of Cardinals living around my home. The males have a prominent crest. The bird in your pic does not. They thrive here year around. Seeds and bugs (we have plenty) nourish them - we have two birdbaths that are well used. They love to bath and splash about - after bathing they go to a nearby bush to groom and dryout - it is always the same bush outside my window. we had a small basket hanging in our carport that last year and now this year again a female made a nest - Fantastic!! Last year she layed 4 eggs and they all hatched!! We pulled our car in and out which didn't deter her. We were thrilled watching the feeding going on - a couple of them moved on but we still have several that opt to stay. A male often comes to watch the seeds being put out. not very skittish.— Preceding unsigned comment added by  (talk • contribs) 
=== (clueless in cyberspace) ===
I would like to log in - Pat Brudy I'm new to the computer - how do I log in?(65.32.159.77 (talk) 20:35, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: (As this colleague almost surely has learned over the last 3 years...), mostly more confidence and self-reliance, or ideally a more experienced friend with the patience to "hold your hand" a little, maybe just by letting you watch what they do on line, and answering some "Why?" questions that arise.--Jerzy•t 22:24, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

text: Vandals of Wikipedia aren't necesarily motivated by anything much different from those who “randomly” damage things in the “real world”.  Some pages are attacked simply because “they are there”. —SlamDiego 02:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  they live in china  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.87.66.16 (talk) 17:31, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I would like to log in - Pat Brudy I'm new to the computer - how do I log in?(65.32.159.77 (talk) 20:35, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: (As this colleague almost surely has learned over the last 3 years...), mostly more confidence and self-reliance, or ideally a more experienced friend with the patience to "hold your hand" a little, maybe just by letting you watch what they do on line, and answering some "Why?" questions that arise.--Jerzy•t 22:24, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  (clueless in cyberspace) 

message: This page has been vandalized again. Please revert to : 
12:33, 25 May 2005 Gdrbot m (Nomialbot - update old-style taxobox)
--TaranRampersad 20:53, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  (Vague in Seattle) 

message: Who would vanalize a page about a bird? --Feb 20, 2006
:Vandals of Wikipedia aren't necesarily motivated by anything much different from those who “randomly” damage things in the “real world”.  Some pages are attacked simply because “they are there”. —SlamDiego 02:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  they live in china  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.87.66.16 (talk) 17:31, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  (Clueless in multiple dimensions) 

message: I think we should talk about the cardinal as a popular high school or university mascot and include a list of such institutions. Example: Luverne Senior High School or Wesleyan University 74.106.19.218 03:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you will find such a list at Northern Cardinal. jimfbleak 06:30, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mascot

message: A challenge to spelling partisans:
To the Yanks:
I challenge you to never revert this article over the spelling of the word color. Think about how it would put them in their place such that they were the only idiots edit warring over how to spell a word? And, to boot, they would be responsible for stupid spellings of words on Wikpedia pages. Also, we have states bigger than their entire dying country. Fuck them.
To the Brits:
I challenge you to never rever this article over the spelling of the word colour. Think about how blimey stupid those yanks will feel - like someone shoved a loorie up their bum, when it turns out that they were the only idiots edit warring over how to spell a word? And, to boot, they would be responsible for stupid spellings of words on Wikipedia pages. Also, Keira Knightley vs. Lindsay Lohan. Fuck them. Hipocrite - «Talk» 22:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with these arguments is that they presume that both sides here are much motived by national chauvinism.  I'm not, and I actually haven't seen real evidence that the other side is either. (The fact that I was personally attacked on the presumption that I was motivated by chauvinism does not prove that the attacker was a counter-chauvinists.) —SlamDiego 01:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's a loorie? or am I better off not knowing? Jimfbleak.talk.06:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  A truck? I think I butchered the spelling.Hipocrite - «Talk» 12:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You meant “lorry”.  Actually, the British use for motorized truck is uncommon in America, but here it is used to refer to sorts of wagons and rail cars. —SlamDiego 18:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I had thought that it might have been a typo for "lourie", an unmotorised bird, but that seemed improbable given that this is a South African usage. Mind you, the bird wouldn't be quite so painful. Jimfbleak.talk.06:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely a confrontation with a motorized bird would be more awful. —SlamDiego 21:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Anyone who edit wars to change the spelling against established policy must be motivated by something.  The idea of "most common spelling" would mean that Wikipedia would default to Indian English, since there are probably more English speakers in the subcontinent than anywhere else in the world.  In the case of a family of birds that is found in over a dozen English-speaking countries (all but one of which spell the word "colour"), there's no reason to weight population more than number of countries.  In the absence of any overwhelming rationale to associate the family of birds with one country with one system of spelling, changing the stable spelling amounts to a violation of policy on national varieties of English.  Guettarda 18:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A challenge to spelling partisans 

message: I gave it this rating because I don't think it has that much material that would put it above a start class, for this article it probably doesn't have the potential. Cynops 13:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment

message: The first comment referred to the quality of the article, that is, HOW MUCH INFORMATION DOES IT CONTAIN?  Are so many users committed to "winning" a childish playground argument about spelling, rather than helping us educate each other about Cardinals?  If I lived in Windsor, ON, a twenty minute drive from here, I would "capitalise", but since I am in Detroit, I "capitalize."  In Michigan we have a Department of Labor, in Ontario it is the Ministry of Labour, but what the HELL is the difference, since neither of them are of any earthly use to me?
I came to this page after learning about the American Robin, turdis migratorius..  I would refer everyone commenting on this page to read the American Robin page, and use it as the gold standard for how much one can learn from it.  It would take anyone with an I.Q. above 85 several hours to read and digest.  There are many videos of adult Robins, male, female, eggs, hatchlings and fledglings.  There is even one that plays the boy Robin's song.
I can whistle the Cardinal song.  It is often the wake-up call that I do NOT get from a cock, since the neighbours do not like them, (or pigs), in the city. Having heard many foraging pairs working my yard.  I sometimes whistle to the bloke and sometimes he answers with a message that probably means, "The missus and I are working, YOU pipe down!" 
I am 60 years old, and have been watching, (and learning from), birds as long as I can remember.  Some of my earliest memories are throwing bread crumbs on the lawn to feed them.  A few years ago I saw a juvenile cardinal in a shrub next to my house.  The poor little critter looked quite troubled, so I rang my librarian friend.  Lillian was a birder, but she could not identify this little critter's problem, but she told me to ring up the local Audibon line.  The Audibon lady told me not to worry about the little one, cardinals fledge this time of year and if I looked, I would see the adult that was watching over the young one.  I looked on the peak of the garage, and sure enough, there was Dad!  I was aware that they tend to be territorial, so when the time came, Mum and Pappa said, "We love you, but it's time to go make your own way in the world."
The other day my dog chased a junior bird out of the back-yard tall weeds onto the driveway.  Daddy Robin embarked on furious kamikaze-like attempts to dive-bomb a hole into my dog's skull, so I had to twist Zeke's collar and drag all eighty pounds of him into the house.  Pappa took a couple of close near-attacks at me as well.  Although we heard a lot of bird fuss in the back, we made Zeke stay inside, even though he was obsessed with fulfilling his doggie job-description by going out and finishing his meal.  
Over the last couple of days, I watched Dad train Junior to avoid other predators, and hunt for worms, insects and berries.  I saw the two of them foraging on the lawn across the street.  We have had so little rain this year that I believe they found very little, so I put our irrigation sprinkler on our brown lawn for a few hours, even though we can hardly afford the water bill.  As a family, we have committed to wash our clothes and bodies less, and with this mild summer, (and a broken washing machine), that is not a terrible sacrifice.
But other than the initial complaint about the poor quality of the Cardinal article, I have seen no effort at improving it, so why don't we just forget the whole thing.  I have a lot more fun watching birds than arguing about how to spell.--W8IMP 06:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why the silly food fight?

message: The current image being used for this article (the male northern Cardinal at the top of the page) could possibly use being replaced with something else, since it's not exactly the best quality. Here's a good representative, higher-quality picture of a male cardinal from Wikimedia Commons that I thought might be better pic to use: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Northern_Cardinal_Male-27527.jpg
I think it'd be beneficial if the current image was replaced with something else (like the one I linked above), since it's somewhat dim and actually appears that the bird is darker than it really is. What do you all think about that? Or is there some reason why a different image can't be used that I don't know about? Thanks for the feedback! JamieS93 (talk) 19:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Changing main cardinal image?

message: I added a sentence about the cardinal being the state bird and then tried to add the reference.
When I added the reference, I failed to do the preview page and saved it.  I then noticed that it had deleted everything below the reference I added.  So, I went back in to undo the change so the information below would reappear.  In spite of my best efforts, I have not been able to add the reference without it deleting what is below.  
Here is the reference that goes to the sentence about the cardinal being the state bird of various states: http://www.50states.com/bird/cardinal.htm  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mojomama (talk • contribs) 13:45, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: TravelinSista added it in for you, but that ref should go in the red cardinal article instead, so it was removed. - M0rphzone (talk) 05:12, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tried to add reference but it deleted a whole section  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hi! I am in the current process of adding more info for this family. I was wondering if it makes more sense to move the title to either Cardinalidae or Cardinalid, as it is confusing vernacular-wise to refer all species as cardinals. It makes more sense to have "Cardinal (bird)" refer to just strictly the genus Cardinalis or at least a page discussing cardinal is a form taxon discussing Cardinalis and Paroaria. 4444hhhh (talk) 04:52, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This a typical problem when following Wikipedia guidelines to use common names for biological taxa articles. Vernacular names aren't precisely defined or atuned to evolutionary biology. I think it would be better to always use the family name for article titles on biological families. One could argue that cardinal sensu lato applies to the whole family, just as tanagers is often used for the family Thraupidae, although the IOC describe the family contents as "Cardinals, grosbeaks and “tanager” allies" and "Tanagers and allies". If the move is made to Cardinalis it might affect a lot of links to the page, so Cardinal (bird) might be best as a disambiguation change. The same could be said for tanagers and some other bird names (finches etc). Perhaps a broader discussion at the project page is warranted. —  Jts1882 | talk  08:03, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is what I meant as Cardinal (bird) as form taxon page be a disambiguation change. I do agree WikiArticles on clades should be the clade name, not what the vernacular name may be. 4444hhhh (talk) 22:36, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

text: The WP:COMMONNAME of this bird is the "Cardinal". I'd hesitate to move the page. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 15:41, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the problem, though. The vast majority of the birds in this family are not called cardinals. That term is used as the common name (in both the Wikipedia and general sense) only for the trio of species in the genus Cardinalis. The current title is inappropriate for the taxonomic level covered by the article. If this article were at Cardinalidae and Cardinal (bird) were a redirect pinging to it, I would without hesitation retarget that redirect at the genus article. The family article should be at the family name. oknazevad (talk) 18:49, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shall we move the page title to "Cardinalidae" or "Cardinalid"? 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks 16:13, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Cardinal (bird) →  – As discussed above, the use of common name "Cardinal" for this high of a taxon is poor, as only three species (well, two and a third sometimes) actually have the word "Cardinal" in their name, and those three are all in the same genus. Readers searching for this title are unlikely looking for this high level of a taxon. The article should be moved to the actual family name, and cardinal (bird) should redirect to the genus Cardinalis. oknazevad (talk) 15:18, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

text: Hemiauchenia (talk) 00:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: , I don't think that's documented as a practice, but there were requested moves at Talk:Psophia (from "Trumpeter (bird)") and Talk:Thymallus thymallus (from "Grayling (species)" (which was still ambiguous with other entries at grayling)) that resulted in a scientific name title over a disambiguated vernacular name. And Talk:Coraciidae had a move proposal that started with moving it from "roller" to "roller (bird)" and resulted in a scientific name title. Plantdrew (talk) 21:29, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, I said I vaguely remember something. I was probably confusing some discussion like those. And the move doesn't need such reasoning. —  Jts1882 | talk  06:04, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 24 June 2023