Talk:Yunmen Wenyan

message: I was reading in Zen Dust that "He became a monk under a commandment master in his native place, and studied the Vinaya diligently." Does anyone know what a commandment master is? --Maru (talk) 21:06, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In medieval China, there were apparently monks who specialized in studying the rather complex monastic codes, rather than on studying scriptures or doctrines, or on meditation, so I figure that's what this is referring to. "Commandment" is a very bad translation. "Precept" is much better, although I think this sort of monk is more commonly translated as "vinaya master". - Nat Krause 12:08, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That does indeed seem to make sense- studying vinaya under a vinaya master. --Maru (talk) 16:35, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Followup:  Urs App's Master Yunmen says the same thing as you, Nat. --Maru (talk) 21:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  First master 

message: I counted them and have a very slight correction to what I said above and elsewhere. Yunmen appears in Blue Cliff Record case numbers 6, 8, 14, 15, 22, 27, 34, 39, 47, 50, 54, 60, 62, 77, 83, 86, 87, and 88.
Two of them, 22 (turtle nosed snake) and 62 ("there is a jewel"), are not listed in the back matter of App's book. So if two are missing from the 18, why does App list 17 cases instead of 16? The answer is because he lists 16 plus one more, "moon in the water", which is not a main case selected by Xuedou, but part of Yuanwu's commentary to #39 (the "hedge").
I cannot verify that the 18 listed above are only in the Record of Yunmen and not in the Jingde Record. But that is what Miura and Sasaki assert on p12, and again in somewhat more detail on p362 of Zen Dust. (With the list above, you can verify for yourself that the figure is not 14, as stated on p267 of Original Teachings of Chan Buddhism.)
My count for Book of Serenity is 11 koans with Yunmen in the main case. They're numbers 11, 19, 21, 24, 31, 40, 54, 78, 82, 92, 99. (Again, App doesn't list turtle nosed snake and "there is a jewel" in the table at the back of the book. He lists nine of them; adding those two makes eleven.)
My count for the Gateless Barrier is 5 koans with Yunmen in the main case, namely 15, 16, 21, 39, and 48. In addition, according to Shibayama (p180), Wumen's verse commentary to 24 is an exact four-line quotation from Yunmen, made without attribution. --Munge 07:03, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 18 cases in the ''[[Blue Cliff Record]]''; two more in ''Serenity'' 

message: *I see no mention of Sohotsu or any similar name in the index of Original Teachings of Chan Buddhism, nor in Zen Dust, nor in the lineage chart of Zen's Chinese Heritage. Help for the blind, anyone? Any guesses as to his real (Chinese) name? 
*I'm guessing that Dongshan Shouchou was Yunmen's "successor" in the sense that Dongshan/Tozan became the head of the Cloud-Gate monastery. What is the source on Dongshan/Tozan as "head of the Yunmen school", as the article states later? --Munge 07:46, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That came from Original Teachings, I think.  --Maru (talk) 22:09, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yunmen school and lineage 

message: The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Jreferee 23:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Assessment#Class_parameter|Biography assessment rating]] comment 

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