Template talk:Derbyshire tramways

message: I changed this template to use the new  (which applies horizontal styling to HTML lists. Lists such as this should be marked up as such, both for semantic reasons and to improve the usability and accessibility to people with non- typical browsers, such as hand-held devices and aural browsers. It also removes the content-free bullet characters, which are read aloud as "...Chesterfield bullet Derby bullet Glossop..." Andy Mabbett 00:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ùI've reverted because other than implementing a template that  seemqs to do little, it changed the stymle of template. Discuss changes before making them. I'm reverting you, you can discuss the changes before you implement them and justify them. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 08:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It does a lot, as I explained above; it just doesn't do much which is visually apparent. Do you really expect separate discussion for each of the many thousands of templates which include improperly marked-up lists? Andy Mabbett 09:15, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Marking up is your field Pigsonthewing, not mine. I created the template in which you put in your thingymagig, your changes modifed the look of it. Make sure you don't and your thingymagig will stay, otherwise it won't. You can't use the thousand of article excuse as you should research the matter before starting implementation (Wikipedia it seems is full of contributors who believe everyone welcomes their wisdom). So long as your script changes do not modify the look I'm happy. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 15:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "I created the template" - please be aware that that gives you no proprietorial or other rights over it. Andy Mabbett 20:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Same reason that doesn't give you the right the implement your own. You don't own this template either. O haven't claimed ownership but I am however allowed to disagree with your choice of esthetics. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 03:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your template uses |, the navigational box uses •, please modify your template with settings to comply with the navigational's current esthetics rather than arbitrarily changing. Your template is acceptable, not the esthetics it accompanies. Thanks, Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 12:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

text: You don't have a monopoly on the right to say what is and is not acceptable. Please read WP:OWN. Andy Mabbett 16:06, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Neither have you. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 20:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ultimately, the most important consideration of course is the reader. Whilst I'm not completely familiar with what it is that  offers, I understand it improves accessibility and I would certainly support anything which enhances the usability of Wikipedia. I do however, appreciate the work Captain scarlet has done in developing this template originally and would therefore have to consider his views when making changes to it, because the creator is going to be in the best position to ensure the template meets their intended purpose. The only visible difference seems to be the separating character, maybe Andy could tell us whether it might be possible to call  with an additional parameter to specify a different character if it is considered that an alternative would be preferred. If this isn't possible maybe, Captain scarlet could consider accepting the change in separating character in light of the benefits provided by . Adambro 16:32, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's not possible. flatlist doesn't use a separating character at all - that's the point, since such characters are not content, and don't belong in the flow of text ("...Chesterfield bullet Derby bullet Glossop..."), just as they are not in the flow of text in an ordinary bulletted list. It uses a border on the HTML element (in this case left-border on "li"). That's one of the things which make it more accessible. How does using a bullet character, instead, help the reader? Andy Mabbett 16:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither does, Flatlist doesn' thelp the reader any more than not having it, just that having flatlists permanantly links Derbyshire Tramways to a third party template and restricts esthetics possibilities. At the end of the day all you're saying is that embedding Derbyshire Tramways helps the reader somehow by having complicated code behind the walls? I'm sorry, but the previous template had simpler code, was not tied with a third party content that if modified changed this template as well and used the esthetically pleasing • instead of the |. the text was not "...Chesterfield bullet Derby bullet Glossop..." but "...Chesterfield • Derby • Glossop...". Throwing the age old article owning script means that you don't either... you can't barge onto an article and radically change the esthetics and functioning of an article without discussing. What you've done is complicate matters, tied it with naother template (instead of plainly adding class="horizontal" instead) and arbitrarily change the • into |. The | isn't more acceptable. Why do you want to change the list look with |? Just leave the •s, they're not hurting you Pigsonthewing. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 20:21, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not all of your post is, to me, understandable,, but your reference to being "tied to third party" content is bizarre; WP templates are used all over the place. The spoken text was "...Chesterfield bullet Derby bullet Glossop..." Andy Mabbett 22:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flatlist