Talk:Piano/Archive 2

message: I'd like to see a list of modern piano brands with short comments...
:That would be cool. I have a good site for it-- I just need to find it. (I've been on it a long while ago, so give me time.) But I'll letcha know, anyhow. If anyone else has something, that would be pretty shibby too. =0) TommyBoy76 02:44, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I take that back; I just found a site. [] It's got everything. We can pick out a few favorites and do extended research on it because the website does not give a description. TommyBoy76 03:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Piano Brand List? 

message: The picture at the top of the page doesn't show the form of a grand piano clearly. Does anyone have a photo which does? Athenaeum 23:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Grand piano picture

message: Is there a separate article for various aspects of playing the piano, eg fingering, pedalling etc.etc? If not I think there should be, or a separate section here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kisch (talk • contribs) 3 May 2006.
:Have you, um...well have you read the article? Try doing that and maybe someone won't have to answer. TommyBoy76 11:44, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose you just answered your own question, eh? Sign your name with four tildes so we know who you are and how long the discussion has been going on. :) TommyBoy76 01:50, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Kisch, I think a simple "no" would have been a better answer to your initial question.  If you can contribute to an article called, say, piano technique please go ahead.  However, it needs to be an encyclopedia article, rather than a how-to or teaching aid!  If you want the latter, then some of the external links listed in the article might help you, or there is a nascent piano book over at Wikibooks.  --RobertG ♬ talk 08:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Heh, sorry. Not-reading-correctly is a bad habit of mine. ;) Well, I did not read or skim or whathaveyou any of the articles. But I punched in on search "piano playing technique" and this seemed to have descriptions of things that you are looking for....erm so I assume, of what you are looking for. Once again, sincerest apologies. TommyBoy76 19:54, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Piano Technique?

message: :There is a significant difference between an instructional link and spam. Please discuss concerns/objections before removing good and helpful information. Thank you.  my2cents 09:15, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: good links, not spam

message: As revised by Henri Herz about 1840, the double escapement action ultimately became the standard action for grand pianos,
Is there reference for this date? - Mireut 16:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Subsequent improvements on Sébastien Érard's double repetition escapement (as patented in 1921) were numerous, but hardly worth mentioning. You may find details (or links to them) at The Piano Technicians Guild's website at http://www.ptg.org D021317c 15:44, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Herz modifications

message: I replaced this, The harder, tauter steel strings required a softer hammer type to maintain good tone quality. It was introduced as a labor saving device, here's from the Reports from the International Jury from the 1855 Exhibition,
Inégale d'épaisseur et d'élasticité, la peau de daim opposait souvent de grands obstacles dans l'opérations de la garniture. Quelquefois il fallait lui faire subire une tension énergique en l'appliquant sur la tête du marteau, et à côté du même morceau on en trouvait un autre trop mince, auquel il fallait laisser tout son moelleux. La délicatesse suffisante du tact dans la main du garnisseur était une qualité fort rare ; de là une inégalité choquante dans la nature des sons des pianos.
Mireut 14:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I find no fault in the original statement. A consequence of increased string tension was less lost energy in the entire string-soundboard-case assembly, which made the noise of the impact of hard hammers louder. Softer hammers reduced that noise. The French paragraph you quote doesn't address that issue, but whether leather coverings, with their attendant quality-control issues, were needed. Eliminating them did save labor (they proved unnecessary) but the naked felt did indeed make "a softer hammer". Note, however, that it wasn't until around World War I, with improvements in the metallurgy and manufacture of piano wire (and competitions encouraging them), that string tensions approached their modern heights. D021317c 16:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Felt hammers

message: :The Piano article says playing a piano key "hard" plays louder.   I think velocity is more important.  If you play slow, and eventually push "hard" the sound will not be as loud as if the key is depressed rapidly. 
::I would agree. I've removed the word hard. - Rainwarrior 04:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Playing hard 

message: This line, in the main aritlce, is confusion about "stretching"
This is so that the strings can be tuned closer to equal temperament in relation to the standard pitch with less stretching.
I understand about tuning the bass of the piano "flat" and the treble "sharp" so overtones of inharmonic strings agree - but "stretching" here is not clear about that.
Also, this line talks about small pianos vs large pianos - but I know some Steinway D's (9' pianos) are tuned with a great deal of stretch.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.224.53.163 (talk • contribs) 00:16, 20 July 2006  (UTC)
:Yeah, it did seem a bit ambiguous. I changed the wording and added a link to Piano tuning where it is better explained. As for Steinway Ds, I don't know those pianos, but physically a longer string, with all other factors being equal, is less inharmonic. There may be other factors at play, such as soundboard resonance, but with regards to string inharmonicity, it is in general correct. - Rainwarrior 04:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently Steinway has changed the model D to a model C!  ( Follow this link, if it works: http://www.steinway.com/steinway/catalogue/models.shtml )  That is, the models C and D were of the same design, except that the best model C's were taken off the line for special treatment.  Usually, they were beefed up with two longitudinal ribs on the long side, they were specially voiced and "brought up" by Steinway technicians, and they weren't sold, but leased and tended by technicians employed by Steinway, who cooperated with pianists to please them as much as possible.  Now that model D's are being sold, they're indistinguishable from the old model C's.  But few concert pianists would want either model tuned with "a lot of stretch" -- certainly not much compared with smaller instruments!  I've often discovered (even to the amazement of pianists who thought that's what they wanted) that their large grands needed to be tuned more conservatively.  Strangely, they knew the top octave was out of tune, but didn't realize it was sharp, and had always asked for more stretch!  It must be a recognized auditory illusion. D021317c 11:05, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tuning 

message: Hi, non-member here. I was reading your article when I noticed that in the topic summary, at the top of the page, the piano is referred to as being variously classified as a keyboard, percussion, or string instrument. I have heard it classified as a keyboard, but as a musician I believed that it was more accurately known as a percussion instrument, the reason being that the hammers *hit* the strings, the trademark of a perc instrument. As for a being a string instrument, I am relatively sure that that is simply a common misperception. Even though it has strings, they must be plucked or bowed to make it a proper string instrument. Could someone clear this up, or make an appropriate edit? (Also, consider putting a list of great pianists at the end of the article. 63.43.18.122 22:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a string instrument because it has strings that are played. The method in which the strings are played is irrelevant. It is both percussion and string, as well as keyboard, as these all refer to specific parts of its mechanism. The only thing it is not is a member of the orchestral string section, which refers only to violins, violas, cellos and bases, and excludes everything else (guitars, banjos, viola da gambas, etc.). - Rainwarrior 23:56, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  String Instrument? 

message: This image would be very helpful for the article, but needs an explanation (if only for the numbering). I'm sure someone here could provide that and add it to the article (and the image description). DirkvdM 09:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added an English section to the image description page over at Wikimedia Commons, to label each of the numbers in English. I wasn't able to fill in all the labels, maybe someone else here can finish it. --Dbolton 08:25, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I filled in the blanks on the English version plus edited annotations which were incorrect. I've used names which are most commonly used. My source is "Piano Parts and Their Functions", Merle H. Mason. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.220.66.57 (talk) 06:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Illustration 

message: (I had no idea what the title should be, so sorry if it is a little misleading)
Not long ago, I have noticed that when you release the damper of the Middle C (C4) and you play loudly and breifly F4, you can here the F4 even after you have stopped playing it. This would mean that it is the C4 chord vibrating. You can do also the same by playing a F3, but instead of hearing an F3, you will here an F4. Now if you play a D4 while the damper of the C4 chord is released, you won't here anything.
Now my question is how come you can hear a F4 from a C4 chord when you play an F4 or an F3. And why can't you here anything when you play a D4 ... 
Josellis 02:07, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A string may vibrate with any standing wave that has a wavelength that is some integer division of its length... that is, any note that in its harmonic series may be picked up by sympathetic vibration. Thus, if you undamp C2 (without sounding it), you may cause it to vibrate with C3, G3, C4, E4, G4, and so on (Bb4 might have a hard time, because equal tempered tuning isn't very close to the harmonic series pitch fo that note). You can play whole triads on a single string this way! Hold C2 and then play a C4 E4 G4 major triad quickly and staccato. It'll all pick up on the lower string! - Rainwarrior 07:14, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

text: The first written use of this effect is probably the one from Arnold Schoenberg's Drei Klavierstuecke Op. 11 (Three Piano Pieces). - Rainwarrior 07:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I heard this called "ghosting," it can be useful tuning. Pleyel, Wolff & Cie patented a piano attachment raising only dampers harmonically related to keys pressed down on an auxiliary keyboard, maybe around 1860. - Mireut 13:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

text: See one here http://www.hammerfluegel.net/viewer.php?albid=426&stage=3 - Mireut 14:05, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's pretty bizarre. - Rainwarrior 18:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harmony/reasonnance 

message: Hello there, sorry but I added my website before reading about how your not supposed to put your own website in the external links, as soon as I read that I took it down but if someone could have a look at it for me and see if it's up to the standard needed to be listed along with the other piano websites here, that would be great. The URL is http://www.learn-piano.org
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time
Kind Regards
Ben
Benmon1 21:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could Someone Review my site 

message: I have just had a read through of this article, and would recommend it for Good Article Status.  I have therefore proposed this on WP:GA for review. Good work on an excellent entry. Mdcollins1984 23:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article 

message: I am by no means an expert when it comes to the correct terrminology for the discussion of piaons, but when my wife and i were purchasing a piano, some 20 years ago, I used the term Grand Piano when I was in a piano showroom.
I was quickly corrected by a very proper salesperson who informed me that Baby Grand, Grand and Concert Grand were words in use by the general public, and so therefore the SLANG had taken over the correct terminology for the aforementioned pianos.
He indicated to me that the correct way to describe a GRAND piano was by the lenght of the HARP.
That a Concert MAster would ask for a (just an example) 84 inch Grand piano or a 60 inch Grand piano.
I never called Vladmir Horowitz to check this out, nor did I call Steinway Co., but I believe that he may have been 100% correct.
24.61.127.113 15:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some people do ask for pianos by size (I hear people talk of feet rather than inches more often), but to say that this is the "correct" way to classify grand pianos is false. "Baby grand" and "concert grand" are well accepted terms and are not merely slang. To me, your encounter with the salesman sounds like he made the comment as a sales technique to appear more knowledgable to you. - Rainwarrior 15:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The problem with "baby grand" is that it isn't standardized.  Nor is "concert grand", though when used with a brand name, it's usually understood which model or models fit the bill.  Few makers call their smallest grands "baby grands", even when they're smaller than those of companies which do, but for the sake of cordiality, salespeople's vocabularies are known to be flexible.  Since specifying the length is not enough to identify a model from some manufacturers, models' names (numbers) tend to be used more often.  Vladimir Horowitz is famous among piano technicians for his familiarity with the technology; achieving the set of modifications he preferred is called "Horowitzing" a piano! D021317c 10:29, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  slanguage used in discussing pianos 

message: I am surprised that there are no media samples of what a piano sounds like in this article. – Kaihsu 11:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excerpts from pieces could be used I suppose. Perhaps specialised techniques such as glissandos, ghosting, finger playing the strings etc... If I have time, I'll record a few excerpts myself. Jaser 12345 19:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: media samples?