Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Naming Conventions

message: I know I said that I don't care, but just to prove to you it's not difficult to determine a set of rules, I'll give you the ones I've been using.
(proposal moved to Proposal #2 below)
I hope you can see that by simply applying the fundamental properties of these terms, namely that PRC and ROC are modern countries while China and Taiwan are ancient geographic regions (and Hong Kong is an exception) you can logically determine what any article or category should be called.
Again, I'm not wedded to any specific detailed proposal; if you can come up with an equally logical alternative rationale I'll be happy to implement it.  --Ideogram 06:00, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Example proposal 

message: # Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 06:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support 

message: PRC/ROC are political entities from modern history and China/Taiwan are geographic entities that have always existed.  Certainly Government of X, Foreign relations of X, and Politics of X should use PRC/ROC.  And Geography of X should be China/Taiwan.
An Economy must follow the laws set by the country it belongs to and should follow Government and Politics.
History can be of a political entity or a place or a people, so we should have History of all four possibilities.  History of the economy of X could cover PRC/ROC in modern times and China before that. (History of the economy of Taiwan would be difficult to write.)
Culture is usually considered to belong to a people and has deep historical roots, and should follow Geography of X.  However, it is possible to speak of the modern Culture of the People's Republic of China distinct from the deep-rooted Culture of China.  No need for Culture of the Republic of China.
Medicine and healthcare systems are determined by governments, so follow Government of X, again excepting the fact that China existed before the PRC/ROC.
There is also the China/PRC/mainland China/Hong Kong issue.  The only examples I can think of here are Economy of X and Demographics of X.  Economy and Demographics are measured within a country; mainland China is not a country so Economy and Demographics of mainland China doesn't work.  Economy of the People's Republic of China and even Demographics of mainland China have disclaimers that they don't apply to Hong Kong
==== Discussion ====
*Generally agree (not all details), but must be applied on a case-by-case basis. — Instantnood 11:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Taiwan wasn't part of "China" back before 1945. And many people still think it  isn't.--Jerrypp772000 00:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Under the current conventions, ROC != China. And neither is the PRC for that matter. -Loren 04:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  #2 

message: *Generally agree (not all details), but must be applied on a case-by-case basis. — Instantnood 11:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Taiwan wasn't part of "China" back before 1945. And many people still think it  isn't.--Jerrypp772000 00:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Under the current conventions, ROC != China. And neither is the PRC for that matter. -Loren 04:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: # --Ideogram 03:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support 

message: Replace "mainland China" with "China" in all category and article names.  In cases where Hong Kong is treated separately (e.g. Economy of China) a comment will be placed in the article noting this.  --Ideogram 03:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  #4 

message: # --Ideogram 03:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support 

message: For some of these articles I think it should be obvious that the naming is somewhat superfluous and unnecessary, and attempts to confine itself to a political standard rather than attribute it to practical and popular usage. Admittedly too, as the geopolitical status in the region evolves, some of these articles will have to be renamed. As a result it is more practical to name these on a case-by-case basis, but provide a list on a page called "Current ROC/PRC naming conventions" or something along those lines. I have added notes as to the case-by-case basis attempting to scrounge the best of NPOV possible. Feel free to disagree.
PRC
*Anti-Secession Law of the People's Republic of China (fair)
*Communications in the People's Republic of China (ran by government mostly, therefore fair)
*Constitution of the People's Republic of China (obviously necessary)
*Demographics of the People's Republic of China (statistics usually only evaluate the mainland China area, therefore fair)
*Economic reform in the People's Republic of China (government initiative, fair)
*Economy of the People's Republic of China (ran by government, fair enough)
*Education in the People's Republic of China (this, although ran by the government, covers some pre-1949 history, therefore it is subject to debate)
*Foreign Minister of the People's Republic of China (fair)
*Foreign relations of the People's Republic of China (before UN recognized PRC, most of the world still recognized ROC as the legitimate Chinese government, therefore fair)
*Government control of the media in the People's Republic of China (very tedious, but sure)
*Government of the People's Republic of China (fair)
*Human rights in the People's Republic of China (fair)
*Internet censorship in the People's Republic of China (ran by gov., fair)
*Internet in the People's Republic of China (distinct entity from HK, MO, TW, therefore fair)
*List of banks in mainland China (sketchy. why not have an entire article for all these Chinese entities?)
*Military budget of the People's Republic of China (fair)
*Military of the People's Republic of China (fair. where does Chinese military redirect to?)
*Ministry of Health (China) (these ministries are a pain. They should technically fit into the "official designation" category)
*Ministry of Public Security of the People's Republic of China (see above. in this specific case maybe this could just be shortened to "Ministry of Public Security")
*Politics of the People's Republic of China (fair)
*President of the People's Republic of China (fair)
*Property Law of the People's Republic of China (fair)
*Prostitution in the People's Republic of China (does this include HK prostitution? it is a civil issue, therefore more appropriately, it should be "Prostitution in mainland China".)
*Public health in mainland China (this is half civil, half government. so this is subject to debate. but this works)
*Rural life in the People's Republic of China (incorporate some historical background in this, we can scrap the "People's Republic")
*Science and technology in the People's Republic of China (government-sponsored, but mostly civil in nature. just "China" is fine here.)
*Social issues in the People's Republic of China (mostly civil in nature, although gov. is involved. perhaps just "China" here too)
*Tourism in the People's Republic of China (This is basically all civil. Think about it from a tourist perspective. Do you hear them say, hey I'm going to China! -or- hey, I'm going to the PRC! Therefore, "China" is more appropriate here.)
*Transportation in the People's Republic of China (Partly gov-run, but basically civil in application. Therefore, "China")
*Women's healthcare in the People's Republic of China (is healthcare even one word? "China" will do fine here too.)
ROC
*Education in the Republic of China (uh... sketchy. This article only contains education on Taiwan, therefore "Taiwan" is perhaps more appropriate.)
*Flag of the Republic of China (fair and necessary)
*Foreign relations of the Republic of China (fair and obviously necessary)
*Human rights in the Republic of China (basically fair, but you don't want people to be confused. Therefore, with practicality in mine, this is more appropriately, "human rights in Taiwan".)
*List of banks in the Republic of China (unecessary. most of these banks are private institutions that couldn't care less whether they earn money off of mainland, Hong Kong, or Taiwanese. which is why it is probably better to have List of banks in China as a whole and List of banks in Taiwan separately) 
*List of finance ministers of the Republic of China (fair)
*List of islands of the Republic of China (again, this is very confusing for people not familiar with the geopolitical situation. but this will have to do b/c there is no better alternative of putting this clearly.)
*List of national parks of the Republic of China (this is regulated by the gov, but its uses are largely civil. therefore it is fair if this used "Taiwan")
*Military of the Republic of China (have "Military of Taiwan" redirect there and we should be fine)
*Administrative divisions of the Republic of China (can't say much. again it is confusing, plus politically sensitive. this is the unpractical but only option)
*Politics of the Republic of China (Politics of Taiwan should redirect there)
*Tourism in the Republic of China (again, this is mainly a civil matter. You don't hear people say "I went to the ROC last week and got a great tan!" Therefore, Tourism in Taiwan is the more practical option.)
I hope we can see some consistencies being drawn out here. As people have suggested before, anything that is "official" must have the PRC/ROC attachment, while anything that is civil in nature should simply use "China" and "Taiwan" without trying to conform to a largely unrelated political standard. Colipon+(T) 23:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My proposed list only covers articles that would be renamed from PRC/ROC to China/Taiwan under my proposal.  Since you are making a different proposal, you need to also address articles that would be renamed from China/Taiwan to PRC/ROC, for instance possibly Economy of Taiwan and Demographics of Taiwan.  --Ideogram 20:56, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed list