Talk:Chris Benoit/Archive 3

message: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/06/28/bc.wrestlerdead.ap/index.html?cnn=yes
This article is about this wikipedia article FancyPants 22:44, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A little weird that this is hitting the news now. We were talking about this on this talk page 2 days ago and got shut up about it. At least it is getting some attention now, hopefully they will figure out who made the edit. Trvr3307 23:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I'd like to add that, in case nobody noticed this, this edit was made roughly an hour later, from an IP that most decidedly was nowhere near the first one.  I'd like those people to point out where they initially found this info. --Bluorangefyre 05:08, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia edits 

message: An interesting article from the AP I found on Comcast.net follows:
— Curran (talk | contibs | random) 23:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This made it to Fox News as well. IrisKawling 00:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was a coincidence right, that the user predicted the death? JayKeaton 00:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It also made it to CNN live TV and I heard it on Spanish radio as well, it's everywhere.  The authorities are seriously investigating this. Dionyseus 00:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Almost absolutely a coincidental vandalism. The vandalisms seem to be done by some childish vandal totally unrelated to Benoit as far as I can tell from the content of the vandalisms. For instance these edits [],[], []. None of these edits seem to be related to Benoit or anything he did. It could have been someone at WWE though, perhaps some employee who knew about the deaths prior to the authorities knowing. But that seems unlikely as well, probably simply some typical vandal who randomly got it right.  Wikidudeman (talk) 00:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not so sure that was a random lucky vandal. Looking over the contribs, I think this is an IP that more than one person has access to, based on the edit pattern and the difference in style between two. And it's probably a residential user (most of the edits are in the middle of the night, not usual business hours). The vandal user is the primary one, going in typical sprees days or weeks apart until he's satisfied himself posting racial slurs about Ron Artest (and expressing his dislike for the ending of The Sopranos in similar fashion) and backs off when he gets warned.But then there's another user, who made the most worthwhile edit from the IP , an edit that is pro wrestling-related. This one doesn't follow the other pattern ... it's the only edit made that day, and made in the evening hours. The vandal started things off May 16 (interestingly, on the 16th of both May and June the vandal was most active) with two wrestling-related edits as well:, . The vandal may also have provided a clue to their location, as well as some names, here: , .I suspect the non-vandal user may have posted the Benoit information. Stylistically it's written like it should be, rather than the vandal's tendency to use racial slurs and profanities.Just some thoughts from an outside reader, based on experience doing RCP. Daniel Case 03:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I was reading an article... 

message: People are continuing to vandalise, calling him Chris "the murderer" Benoit. Can we get some level of higher protection on this page?--Duality344 23:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like lock it down completely? Probably not going to happen. As it fades from the headlines, the vandalism will fade as well. WiccaWeb 00:44, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  the vandalisim isn't that bad and i'd rather have that than having to ask mother may i every time i want to make a changeharlock_jds 00:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: "Subsequent investigations are ongoing as to whether Chris Benoit had murdered his wife and son and then hanged himself, or whether circumstances appear to be different from the facts.[5]"
What's that mean?  I read the citation and it doesn't say anything about the circumstances appearing different from the facts...--SGT Tex 01:08, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe the Illuminati are responsible? No, but seriously, the "official" story usually waits until at least the coroner   and cops release a final report of some kind. Until then, it's speculation. WiccaWeb 01:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah...so this is just a CYA statement?  I think it could be worded better, couldn't it?  When I first read that, I did jump to the conclusion that someone was trying to input a conspiracy theory in there (not necessarily the Illuminati, but possibly a Vast Right Wing group like the NRA...or something.)--SGT Tex 01:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What does this mean?

message: Does anyone think that the information be presented chronologically instead of in the order the information was made available? --Semidelicious 02:33, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chronology 

message: In the text messages bit, it has the address of the house. I was wondering if that should be removed for privacy reason if anybody actually goes there or finds it through google earth. --Sha0000 02:59, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text Messages 

message: The section about his death is getting kinda long. I say separate it so there's less vandalism on this article. D4S 04:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly oppose that suggestion, a lone report about someone's death has absolutely no encyclopedic value. The death wouldn't be so long if the the editors of the article would stop writing the death like a news report, Wikipedia is not here for reporting news, that's what Wikinews is for. All we have to say is that he is recently deceased, and that the events surrounding his death are speculated by police to be Double Homocide-Suicide involving his wife and son, and that the case is still under investigation. --VorangorTheDemon 08:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would make more sense to put his career in a different article if the page was getting too long, although even that itself makes little sense. The best solution would be to delete a large chunk of his career JayKeaton 09:08, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I oppose another article. There's no reason for it to be long. Keep it short. Wikidudeman (talk) 09:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we should just wait for things to calm down and then compress the death section down to a reasonable length.  Hopefully by then we'd have the full story too. DrWarpMind 11:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. It is always an issue trying to make sure that recent events don't unbalance the entry just because things are still developing. When the facts are out the section can be made into a more compact section. {{Emperor 12:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separate Article? 

message: I am confused regarding the sequence of events. At what time did he send the text messages and at what time was he clinically dead? Pratyush
There hasn't been an official word on the exact time of death. All reports indicate that the text messages weren't received until after Benoit was presumed dead (6/24, between 3:51am and 3:58am), but I haven't seen anything confirming when Benoit sent the messages. The cell phone is in police custody; I'm actually very curious why they haven't cleared this up yet. Nowah Balloon 11:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sequence of events 

message: It's very curious to know that this diff was the subject of a short blurb in the Washington Post's Express newspaper this morning.  After I read it, I looked up the history of the article to see it.  The actual source is here on page 3 --<FONT COLOR="#151B8D">su</FONT><FONT COLOR="#3BB9FF">mn</FONT><FONT COLOR="#4AA02C">ji</FONT><FONT COLOR="#254117">m</FONT> talk with me·changes 12:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone else involved? 

message: () is not a correct IPA transcription. Somebody please fix it.
:I know it's pronounced like ben-wah.  I don't know about IPA, but if there is a more correct version, please be bold. --<FONT COLOR="#151B8D">su</FONT><FONT COLOR="#3BB9FF">mn</FONT><FONT COLOR="#4AA02C">ji</FONT><FONT COLOR="#254117">m</FONT> talk with me·changes 13:22, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All right. Fixed it to () in accordance with IPA chart for English and International Phonetic Alphabet for English. Tomasboij 13:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Kind of weird that they got people investigating this page for clues when we been doing that on this page for the since the night he died and it was reported.  When I found out that they were looking at this page in their investigation, I was like, wow...I post on that page.  LOL The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 13:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I find this News item very interesting. Is that already part of the article too?? --- A. L. M. 14:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Look 2 sections up and I posted another link to a small article on it as well.  --<FONT COLOR="#151B8D">su</FONT><FONT COLOR="#3BB9FF">mn</FONT><FONT COLOR="#4AA02C">ji</FONT><FONT COLOR="#254117">m</FONT> talk with me·changes 14:57, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Investigation into Benoit and Wikipedia 

message: The WWE has his texts up that he sent to "Co-workers". I'll just add the link here: http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/chrisbenoittimeline
and leave it up to others to determine the value of adding this info. Billywhack 02:01, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Texts

message: WWE released a statement about the facts of the case. Kingjeff 02:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WWE Statement

message: http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/chairmanbenoit basically vince stating the show must go on. --Duality344 02:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vinces statement 

message: According to AP she filed for a divorce in 2003 due to "cruel treatment" and wanted full custody of their son and child support, while Chris sought joint custody.  Here's the link to the AP article.  Dionyseus 05:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not mentioned because it was never carried out. Putting such a contradictory thing in Wikipedia is rather unnecessary. If the problems were resolved, apparently, why put that in there? It's not really important. AMReese 05:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would it matter whether or not the divorce was carried out?  What matters is that she filed for a divorce and cited "cruel treatment" as one of the reasons, I think this is a precedent for the eventual murders, and thus notable.  06:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the filing could have been made impulsively and without thinking it through, and after thinking on it, she decided to reverse it. Any number of things could have happened to reverse her decision. If she was really serious about it, she would've followed through with the divorce AMReese 06:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it is notable. If nothing else, it will help serve as an extended time line to the current tragic events. As is clearly apparent, this wasn't a friendly marriage. CraigMonroe 11:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why no mention that his wife filed for a divorce in 2003? 

message: Born in '99 or '00? Koberulz 08:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  yes but it doesn't say that. --Fredrick day 13:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not directly. Kingjeff 13:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  well that's your answer. We don't imply things in wikipedia articles. --Fredrick day 13:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: You're probably one of those people who tries to have an answer for everything. Kingjeff 13:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not entirely sure what you mean by that, but he's entirely correct. Jeff Silvers 13:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Have you checked my userpage? It's says "This user can do no wrong, especially when it comes to editing Wikipedia." Kingjeff 13:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Are you trying to accuse me of going around vandalising pages? Kingjeff 17:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I heard about this too. Kingjeff 17:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: it's also possable that he was perscribed HGH for his conditionharlock_jds 14:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I now have a link to a story about his illness.  (http://www.news1130.com/news/topstory/article.jsp?content=20070626_212836_4500)  Take it for what it's worth.  Mike 15:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Daniel

message: It should be added to the article some inconsistencies with the police investigation. On June 25, when the story first broke, It appeared Chris Benoit killed his wife on Saturday, Daniel on Sunday, then himself on Monday. By the next day, after the preliminary autopsy, they say Daniel was killed first on Friday and then Nancy early Saturday before killing himself late Saturday or early Sunday. Then, the text messages were revealed by WWE.com, all during the day on Sunday. If he killed himself late Saturday or early Sunday, how could he have sent those messages?
I think Benoit's Death should get its own article, especially as it drags out. This is no longer just a normal wrestling death like Eddie Guererro, it is now a murder case that is being watched by all of mainstream America and beyond. It is the top news story in a pretty busy week (wildfires/flooding ravaging the U.S., Paris Hilton, Tony Blair quitting after 10 years,) If Michael jackson's case and O.J. Simpson's case have their own articles, then i see no reason why this shouldn't. <----
:: because you are looking into a crystal ball and assigning this a future importance it does not current have? If this is still being mentioned internationally in a couple of weeks I will be very surprised (Indeed I haven't see a single mention on UK news programs or channels). Those other cases had sustained interest because of the trial. There might be something that suggests that we need a separate article at some stage but I don't see it yet. --Fredrick day 13:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Who said that he killed his son first and the wife second?  From all the reports I've seen of the autopsy, his wife was killed on Friday, his son was killed on Saturday, and he killed himself late Saturday/early Sunday.  Dionyseus 17:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct, sir. The Hybrid 17:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: we'll see if any creditable articles come out skeptical of benoit being the murderer, until that happens adding information about a "Controversy" if he did the killing or not is totally original research and has no place in the article.harlock_jds 14:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversy

message: One of the problems I have with Wikipedia is that it gives a soapbox to conspiratorial crackpots and all manner of reality-challenged fools, and nearly every article has s large "Conspiracy" section.  Anyway, get ready for the flood to hit as soon as the article is unprotected.  Both here and at the IMDb boards, wrestling fans just REFUSE to accept reality.  They're saying the family was killed by burglars, that the wife killed herself and the kid and Benoit commited suicide out of "distress", that they were murdered by a rival wrestler (look up Kayfabe guys), that the police/government framed him, or that he somehow "accidentally" killed them and offed himself out of remorse (how a hulking wrestler can "accidentally" bind a woman's hands and feet then strangle her to death, then "accidentally" smother his son with a pillow the next day eludes me).  The admins should be extra-vigilant about keeping the fanboys from adding "alternate theories" to the page because they can't accept that their spandex-clad idol was a juiced-up, homicidal savage. Childe Roland of Gilead 14:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dude, read this talk page. Everyone like that shut up after Tuesday's press conference. Get with the times, and on some chill pills dude. The Hybrid 14:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Im still trying to work out how anyone would think he was framed by police ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 14:49, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Hybrid, I've been reading "alternate theories" on  message boards as late as this morning.  This happens with nearly every "controversial" subject.  Just wait 'til they unlock the page. Childe Roland of Gilead 14:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I know how bad message boards can be; that’s why I refuse to deal with them anymore. I was saying that Wikipedia appeals to a more intelligent crowd, typically anyway :P. I'm also personally seeing to it that this page stays locked until at least Saturday, when I will beg for a longer time period, as I also know that wrestling vandals are complete dicks. The Hybrid 14:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  we'll just revert original research out... not sure if we need total protection since many of us are resionable editors and vandalaisim is easilly fixed (and all vandals are complete dicks). The woman article seems to be doing fine with simi protection.harlock_jds 15:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Benoit was more famous. I want full protection for as long as possible because most admins hate WP:PW, and once it gets unprotected they will never full protect it again. The vandalism at a rate of every 30 seconds, LITERALLY, with semi-protection before the full was established shows how bad it can get. Just trust me when I say we need it, please. The Hybrid 16:07, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In a couple days, we'll drop it to semi protection because the mission of Wikipedia means that articles need to be protected for the least time that it is viable, and also because most of the facts are now known. Hybrid, I would also caution you to think about this.. Alkivar, who most of the PW folks had trouble with, kept his eye on the article for multiple DAYS so you guys could get edits on the page. I'm also willing to work with you guys here. Not all, not even most admins, not even many admins have a problem with PW, and a lot of those who do have Wikipedia based reasons for it. SirFozzie 16:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand why the biased ones hold that bias; I agree with what they say, even. However, they also tend to take their frustration out in seemingly abusive ways. I left before it got too bad, and even now refuse to get involved, but I do watch it. Anyway, I respect the hell out of Alkivar and you, but you both are exceptions to the rules. Many admins write off requests from the project without even looking the issue over. The Hybrid 16:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Get ready for conspiracy theories... 

message: The AP story is saying that Benoit called a co-worker on Saturday saying he missed his flight and he sounded groggy and said "I love you" and that was "out of context".  Does anyone know who this coworker was?  Monday night Chavo said the last time he talked to Benoit he said "I love you", but Chavo made it sound like they always said that to each other.  Also, which co-worker did he tell that his wife and kid were throwing up because of food poison.  And who did he send all the text messages to?  I can't view the wwe.com page from work, so I can't see the timeline and I just wanted to know who he was in contact with over the weekend?--SGT Tex 15:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On prowrestling.com (take the site for what it's worth), I've seen those same reports as well as in the detailed timeline on WWE's website.  That link is a few sections up.  Mike 16:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The AP story says: 
When a co-worker who usually travels with Benoit called him later from the Houston airport, Benoit told the co-worker his wife, Nancy, was throwing up blood and that his son, Daniel, also was throwing up. Benoit said he thought it was food poisoning, according to WWE.
This is all so strange.--SGT Tex 16:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Co-Workers

message: I'm just curious where user:garistotle (from a few sections up) got the information stating the WWE have removed all references of Benoit's career? I,ve found references of his match with MVP at Wrestlemania 23 --Duality344 16:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Must have been added back in recently last night. I scoured the WWE Shop site last night and found nothing. No mention of him anywhere on the site, except for the the statements they are making regarding his death and in the title history. That being said, I didn't check the Wrestlemania 23 page, so maybe it was in there to. Garistotle 16:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I was just on WWE's site and he's still listed with Wrestlemania 20.  Maybe he's off all the listings on WWE Shop, but he is still referenced here and there on the main site.  Mike 16:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think they're not going to completely deny the fact that he was employed with them, but the want to make clear they don't want to make any "blood money" from his merchandise. --Duality344 16:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They are still gonna list him in things like match results, they are just gonna remove anything that could be seen as honoring him (tributes, his profile, merchandise, etc.). TJ Spyke 20:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Garistotle 

message: I suggest the addition of the following statement in the death section of the article:
:Some media organizations have  hypothesized that a steroid-induced rage may be the cause of Benoit's actions, as some doctors have linked steroid use to uncontrollable anger, among other psychological issues which include paranoia.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286834,00.html Fox New's page on Roid Rage's role in the deathshttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19424899/ MSNBC on Roid Rage However, the WWE has stated that they believe the facts of this crime do not support the hypothesis that "roid rage" played a role in the murders. They cite evidence of premeditation in addition to the lack of a toxicology report, and the fact that the steroids found within Benoit's home were legally prescribed to him.http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/benoitpressrelease WWE's rebutal to allegations of Roid Rage
What does everyone think? The Hybrid 14:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As written, this is a great neutral stance on the roid rage subject.  The media with their accusations and the WWE defending the subject with their facts and that they too are waiting for the toxology report.  Until that report is released, nobody can say with certainty that steroids played a part in the deaths. Mike 16:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: we aren't agreeing with the catagorazation just saying that is the angle most of the media coverage is taking.harlock_jds 18:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, the good news is Nancy Grace from CNN had Alex Marvez on recently, and he pretty much pwned the Roid Rage thing, so some people know the truth out there, at least. The Hybrid 18:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What to add to the article in regards to roid rage 

message: I tried suggesting this earlier, but apparently nobody saw it... I recommend changing the last paragraph of the career section to more accurately describe the situation as to why Nitro substituted for Benoit on the Vengeance PPV.  I'm thinking this might work:
On June 19, 2007, Benoit wrestled his last match, defeating Elijah Burke in a match to determine who would face CM Punk for the vacated ECW Championship at Vengeance. Benoit missed the weekend house shows, telling WWE officials that his wife and son were vomiting blood due to food poisoning.Detailed WWE/Benoit timeline When he failed to show up for the pay-per-view, viewers were informed that he was unable to compete due to a "family emergency," and that he would be replaced in the title match by Johnny Nitro. Nitro went on to win the match and become ECW Champion.
Thoughts?  Comments?  Rdfox 76 17:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I used "failed to show up" because the WWE timeline indicates that he never contacted them to notify he wouldn't be showing up, he simply no-showed.  Rdfox 76 17:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Apparently, that was a mistaken report from one of the wrestling dirtsheet sites; check the WWE timeline at http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/detailedbenoittimeline for details on what messages were sent, and when.  The last text messages sent by Benoit were at about 4AM on Sunday, which jibes fairly well with the time of death ("late Saturday/early Sunday") mentioned at the press conference yesterday.  Rdfox 76 18:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last paragraph of career section (2006-2007 subsection) 

message: After the sentence "They cite evidence of premeditation in addition to the lack of a toxicology report, and the fact that the steroids found within Benoit's home were legally prescribed to him. [91]'" There is a ' that doesn't belong. Placed right after citation 91. It should be removed. Also, Citations 89-91 should be formated. Wikidudeman (talk) 18:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor issues 

message: From the statments I have seen/read, I did not once hear an apology for airing the tribute episode of Raw. Am I missing something? fadedx 18:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Apologize for what? The article doesn't claim he apologized. Wikidudeman (talk) 18:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: He did not use the words "I'm sorry" or "apologize" or "regret", but he did make it clear that Benoit's name would not be mentioned anymore, and that the tribute would be for everyone (beside Benoit) affected by the tragedy.  The tribute section of the death should mention that a) the Raw tribute was before the facts were known and b) that WWE is now refusing to distribute the tribute show, and c)has seemed to cut all ties to Benoit (i.e. merchandising, his WWE profile, etc).  I can provide sourcing for this once the protection expires. Ramsquire (throw me a line) 18:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Here is a youtube video of it  ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 20:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree and I dont think he has anything to apologise for at the time they had no idea and people would be yelling at him for not doing one. ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 21:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, he has nothing to be sorry for. In fact I feel blessed that he did the tribute. It gave me and millions of other fans one last night to look over some of the greatest moments in his career before finally being forced to condemn him. The Hybrid 22:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vince did not apologise 

message: In the infobox, his death date and retirement date are listed as the 25th, while the first sentence has it listed as the 24th.  Whichever one is the agreed upon date should be used consistantly in all three spots (and whatever other locations pop up).  Mike 18:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed, though I don't believe the actual date of death has been determined. -- Gogo Dodo 23:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Either way, as long as it's consistant there shouldn't be many complaints.  Mike 02:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox Corrections 

message: Should there maybe be something in talking about his murder/suicide talking about how the majority of retail outlets have since removed any Chris Benoit action figures and DVDs? I'm sure something will be properly sourced to show that this is the case in the next couple of days, if it hasn't been already. The only places I've been able to find anything with Benoit's name on it so far is Amazon and Ebay. (note that I haven't checked wrestling-specific sales sites such as Ringside Collectibles)Garistotle 19:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to mention Amazon's way of trying to make a quick buck off the situation... Mike 19:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They had the merchandise before Chris Benoit was post-humorously accused of murder. Besides, would you take all the merchandise off the shelves of Chris Benoit, if you had the chance to make money off a tragedy such as this? A lot of people say that war is profitable. Why not death? AMReese 00:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not talking about them trying to make a buck off the situation, I'm talking about the shameless plug of his DVD in the note about his death when you search WWE.  Mike 02:12, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retail reaction 

message: They are doing autopsies and toxicology and lord knows what else we are not told about.  Why not wait until there is absolutes of what happened here?  Right now it seems like guessing.  Of course this is just my opinion but I think it all should stay out of the article until all is really known. Of course changing the info box to him being dead should be done, but then again when it is know when he died for sure. --CrohnieGalTalk 21:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can never know anything "for sure", we just have to believe that the police told us the truth. And the police have told us that he killed his wife one day and his little boy the next, followed by himself. The police could be lying to us, but I sort of trust the police. They risk losing their jobs if the public find out they lied. JayKeaton 08:10, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think anyone wanted to hear that he murdered his own family, I certainly didn't.  Dionyseus 15:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why not wait for all the details and tests to be done? 

message: This is at the top of the page:
:Please note that this talk page is for discussion of changes to the Chris Benoit article. Off-topic discussions, including tributes, are not appropriate for Wikipedia and will be REMOVED. Thank you for your cooperation. 
It could be to limit the talk page from becoming massively large. Salisbury Steak (complaint dept. - contribs) 15:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah but some pretty important pages and comments were deleted that directly related to the event.  I think some admin or someone is making person choices to crop this down before the cops gets on this page.  That's my opinion.  If I'm not right, then restore the pages back to where they were.  There wasn't anything on the page before it started getting deleted today that was not approiate or did not speak about the article directly....I think someone is getting scared that this page is in Polices eyesight now.The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 15:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am just stating what is at the top, you might have to find an admin for explination on this one man, I am not one.  Also using a colon(:) will indent your post so that it looks like a response and not all one response, no offense. Salisbury Steak (complaint dept. - contribs) 15:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

text: How about some help admins for User:2-Bar Quack on this? Salisbury Steak (complaint dept. - contribs) 15:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am still learning some of the coding here on Wikipedia.  LOL, yeah, I mean, I just don't understand why people would delete stuff it if it directly relates to the page and the info we are finding out about him.  I mean, I got enough rights to go in there on his page and make changes, but I like to talk about them here before anything and to be honest, I don't even want to touch his page until all the facts come out.  People been jumping quickly to want to make changes to his article page, I just figured until we get more details about it, we can use this page to gather information in what we are going to do for his article once the tox. test comes back.The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 15:59, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: People should be more like you then, instead people will put anything on the page just for the purpose of saying that "he's a killer" and reasoning that with half-ass truths when the whole story is not there. Salisbury Steak (complaint dept. - contribs) 16:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Remember Wikipedians

message: I believe that some of us should focus on the rest of the article and chill out on the death section. It's in serious need of a re-write, most of it is WP:CRUFT simply because of the way it is written. I was reading the article, especially the Early Career section with the second paragrpah where it explains "The Dungeon", and I read the first sentece literally had no idea what the hell it was talking about (granted I'm not a HUGE wrestling fan, but imagine someone who knows nothing about Chris Benoit. I'm pretty confident that random people have heard about Benoit on the news lately and come here to find out more about him). Suggestions? --VorangorTheDemon 17:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Other work

message: I don't like the new photo.  The old one was better.The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 19:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The new photo does seem to show him a little grumpier-looking than usual in my opinion. Crenel 20:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo