Talk:Haku (Naruto)

message: do you know how old haku is i know naruto 12 in the first one i cant remember if haku is older or younger than him?
      when he fights naruto he is 15 years old. or so i have heard from a reliable sorce.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.132.127 (talk) 23:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: age 

message: TTN, please note on the category page for LGBT comic characters that the description says 'have been or PORTRAYED as being'.  Evidence from the story shows that Haku is clearly transgendered and/or gay.  Please stop reverting, and do NOT blank entire sections.  CaveatLectorTalk 21:53, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I'm not about to go as far as that, the section is a decent analysis of a particular aspect of the character. I see no particular reason to delete it. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 21:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The section on his sexuality seems to be good, but in the end, it's still origninal research. OR isn't allowed, so it should just be removed. Nemu 21:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The entire article is original research in that case, as nothing is cited. And once again LOOK AT THE CATEGORY PAGE. It specifically includes those PORTRAYED as LGBT, even if it is not specifically stated.  CaveatLectorTalk 22:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's just a cop out on your part. Most of the articles is based on the direct observation of the series. The sexuality is research based on those obseravtions, making it original. He isn't depicted as a gay person. It's just an opinion until Kishimoto says it. Opinions don't belong on the site. Nemu 22:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm actually tired of reverting people blanking it. Whatever relevant parts are in there can be merged. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category (again) 

message: CaveatLector, and any likeminded people, if I may make a couple suggestions:
#The absolutely simplest way to resolve this is to find a reliable source discussing Haku's sexuality.  If you can find something that qualifies -- an interview with Kishimoto, the introduction to a manga collection, the commentary track on a DVD, a scholarly article, a newspaper article about people dressing up as Haku and Zabusa at gay pride parades -- and establish that your source qualifies as a reliable source, then the debate will tighten up and the article will probably be improved.  This may take some work, but is often easier than you think, especially if you read or speak Japanese.  Somebody on one of the Naruto fanboards may be able to point you to something, or a good reference librarian may be able to help you.  (Probably a Japanese librarian, I think).
#Alternately, let's discuss the information that you can source to specific episodes/issues.  Without making any assumptions, what are the statements of absolute fact that are important to you?
Thanks, TheronJ 22:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions for sexuality proponents 

message: Based on the discussion above, I have two related compromise proposals.  
1) Process: Let's start with a "clean slate"
My preference would be to "start over" with regard to any personal interaction.
*Nemu, if possible, I would recommend that you not accuse CaveatLector of being biased, or suggest that he is wrong because of his personal perspective.  I have no idea if you're right or not; I just don't think it's helpful to tell people that you think they're biased.  Your opinion that Caveat's proposed edits are original research appears to be the core of your position; it doesn't get any stronger or weaker if we enter into a discussion of whether Caveat is objective.
*Similarly, I understand that it's frustrating that Caveat doesn't have as much time to edit as you, and that he/she doesn't agree with you on WP:OR.  The timestream thing is unavoidable; some people edit an hour a week, others an hour a day.  The disagreement is hopefully resolvable, one way or the other.
*Caveat, I can see why you would be offended by Nemu's suggestion that you're wrong because you're pro-gay (if you are), and I've tried to address the issue.  My request would be that we start fresh - Nemu tries to avoid personalizing the debate, and you forgive him/her for anything that's happened to date.
:I was planning on it, but I really didn't feel like leaving his points unaddressed. People do that too often. I gave my opinion, so I won't bring it up anymore. Nemu 21:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems fine to me. Nemu 21:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexuality mediation compromise proposals 

message: I am going to close the mediation -- Caveat Lector hasn't responded in some time, and I think that the discussions have gone about as far as they can in his absense.  (This isn't a criticism of Caveat -- there's just not more we can do right now).  Thanks for everyone's comments and input, and please let me know if anyone thinks there is anything else that needs to be done.
 
As a wind-up suggestion, if this comes up again, the absolute best thing to do is find some reliable sources beyond the anime and manga, whether they're DVD commentary tracks, Japanese newspaper and magazine articles, or what.  Failing that, all we can do is try our best to apply Wikipedia's policies civilly and in good faith, which I think everyone has done.  
Good for you, everyone, and I apologize for not coming up with a more final resolution.  TheronJ 15:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Closing mediation 

message: The line "The fact that Haku has never (intentionally) killed another human is a testament to his purity" is a little off... If Haku didn't kill others, I kinda get the feeling that that would've contradicted with Zabuza's murderous nature (beeing a ninja and all) thus not acting as the "perfect tool" that Zabuza wanted him to be... It could be argued that he didn't "willingly" kill people, but he warned Naruto & Sasuke that, if they thretened his dream to make Zabuza's dream come true, he would not hestitate to kill them... Unless someone can come up with a good reason to keep the text as it is, I'd like to request that the text is slightly modified. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.228.148.45 (talk) 17:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  An incorrect statement, perhaps? 

message: I've moved the spoilers tag, as it only began after the mention of Haku's early death - which is certainly a spoiler. I've moved it to just before the mention of Haku's early death. Kitty 08:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoilers tag moved