Talk:Edward Jenner

message: Edward Jenner was either my (maternal) grandmother's maternal grandfather or her mother's maternal grandfather.  I'm sorry I don't have more information than that because society is male-dominated, the wife's family doesn't matter.  I believe my grandmother has some family heirlooms and perhaps a few oral stories, but they would be unpublished and therefore not credible.
Joanna.Licata (talk) 04:00, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Publish them.  Midgley (talk) 11:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family 

message: It is interesting to note a private school in Gloucester is named after Edward Jenner. Source: 	http://www.edwardjennerschool.org.uk
Perhaps it is relevant to include this in the list of places named after him?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.59.31 (talk) 08:51, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buildings and Monuments 

message: Failed because: requires references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ike9898 (talk • contribs) 14:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Delisting GA - still lacking citations.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It has rather a lot of citations, and no markers indicating something uncited.  Was there something particular?  Midgley (talk) 21:30, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed GA 

message: I initially made this entry for Jenner back when I was in 12th grade. 4 (or is it 5) years later, it's nice to see a few of my lines still untouched from edits :) -- Sid M. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.200.200.43 (talk • contribs) 12:01, 6 July 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looking back (Off Topic) 

message: "www.historylearningsite.co.uk/edward_jenner has some similar information. Has it been copied, or has it done the copying? Because the information is in fact, exactly the same! Anyone with information on this please say something. Thankyou. 88.104.184.19 08:06, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Bad URL: The correct link is here and, indeed, there still remains enough barely-altered material (primarily intended for young students) from the History Learning Site in the Wikipedia Edward Jenner article to prevent it from seriously being considered a Good Article.   Athænara   ✉  10:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  www.historylearningsite.co.uk/edward_jenner 

message: There's a bizarre statement in the opening paragraph concerning advice that William Harvey supposedly gave (directly) to Jenner - did Harvey have access to a time machine that allowed him to travel 100 years into the future in order to meet Jenner? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.65.205.191 (talk • contribs) 19:47, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for spotting that.  Harvey's famous advice _repeated_ to Jenner by Hunter.  Midgley 21:26, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  William Harvey 

message: === Material ===
In the years 1770-1791 at least six people had tested independently the possibility of using the cowpox vaccine as an immunization for smallpox in humans for the first time: an English person whose identity is unknown, Mrs. Sevel (Germany), Mr. Jensen (Germany), the English farmer Benjamin Jesty (in 1774), Mrs. Rendall (England), the German teacher Peter Plett in 1791 (see source: Sudhoffs Archiv, vol. 90 (2), p. 219-232, 2006, Stuttgart, Germany). In 1796 it was the English physician Edward Jenner to do the same and to fihgt successfully for the acceptance and acknowledgement of this method of immunization.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.48.205.74 (talk) 10:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Jesty lived and farmed at Yetminster at the time he vaccinated his wife and her children.  Later he movd to Worth Matravers  Midgley 22:31, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Picture in place - does anyone know where to find T Jefferson's letter as a microfilm, image on the web or certified text?  He and Dr Benjamin Waterhouse of Cambridge Mass. corresponded about vaccination, and appear to have sorted out the transport arrangements after a supply went wrong in hot weather. Midgley 21:29, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time to rewrite this. 

message: In the years 1770-1791 at least six people had tested independently the possibility of using the cowpox vaccine as an immunization for smallpox in humans for the first time: an English person whose identity is unknown, Mrs. Sevel (Germany), Mr. Jensen (Germany), the English farmer Benjamin Jesty (in 1774), Mrs. Rendall (England), the German teacher Peter Plett in 1791 (see source: Sudhoffs Archiv, vol. 90 (2), p. 219-232, 2006, Stuttgart, Germany). In 1796 it was the English physician Edward Jenner to do the same and to fihgt successfully for the acceptance and acknowledgement of this method of immunization.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.48.205.74 (talk) 10:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Jesty lived and farmed at Yetminster at the time he vaccinated his wife and her children.  Later he movd to Worth Matravers  Midgley 22:31, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Material 

message: →Warning:  One or more links in this section (all five on Royal Society website) hazardous to use.  Proceed at your own risk.  If what they are intended to source is at all useful, they should be repaired or replaced; if this is not possible, they should be removed.   Æ.   ✉  10:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Royal Soc records 

message: Letter from Thomas Jefferson
3rd president of the United States: 1801-1809
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl172.htm
Letter To Dr. Edward Jenner On his Discovery of the Small 
 Pox Vaccine - Monticello, May 14, 1806
        _To Dr. Edward Jenner_
        _Monticello, May 14, 1806_
        SIR, -- I have received a copy of the evidence at large
respecting the discovery of the vaccine inoculation which you have
been pleased to send me, and for which I return you my thanks.
Having been among the early converts, in this part of the globe, to
its efficiency, I took an early part in recommending it to my
countrymen.  I avail myself of this occasion of rendering you a
portion of the tribute of gratitude due to you from the whole human
family.  Medicine has never before produced any single improvement of
such utility.  Harvey's discovery of the circulation of the blood was
a beautiful addition to our knowledge of the animal economy, but on a
review of the practice of medicine before and since that epoch, I do
not see any great amelioration which has been derived from that
discovery.  You have erased from the calendar of human afflictions
one of its greatest.  Yours is the comfortable reflection that
mankind can never forget that you have lived.  Future nations will
know by history only that the loathsome small-pox has existed and by
you has been extirpated.
        Accept my fervent wishes for your health and happiness and
assurances of the greatest respect and consideration.
http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/london2001/august2001/18aug2001c/
(Are Jefferson's letters on file somewhere to cross-reference directly?)
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6482 lists two archive sites for Jefferson's papers.  He had a lot of correspondence.
A photo of the statue (I've requested permission to use one or more of those from the owner, failing that I'll take one or ask a colleague to) Midgley 02:03, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Picture in place - does anyone know where to find T Jefferson's letter as a microfilm, image on the web or certified text?  He and Dr Benjamin Waterhouse of Cambridge Mass. corresponded about vaccination, and appear to have sorted out the transport arrangements after a supply went wrong in hot weather. Midgley 21:29, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hail from the Chief! 

message: *1885 The Story of a Great Delusion by William White
"JENNER, jealous of Pearson, was anxious to supersede the Institution for the Inoculation of the Vaccine Pock established by him in 1799; but Jenner was what Scots call "a feckless creature," whose wishes rarely issue in fruit. " ... But the ease-loving Jenner was not to be drawn."  Scurrilous crap. Midgley 04:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Attack on Jenner

message: From papers at the Roy. Coll. Physicians (and website) (and Brittanica)
George Pearson was one of a few London doctors Jenner provided vaccination material to.  He came up with the idea of arm to arm vaccination - which has some plausibility and was later used to take Vaccinia to the Philipines in the Balmis Expedition, but would have been dangerous if bacterial superinfection got transferred that way, and of course hugely dangerous if the lesion used was actually a Smallpox one. Jenner's work was largely standardising and productionising the process, as you'd expect from a scientist and FRS he would see the need to be particular. 
Another one, Wiliam Woodville, a physician in a Smallpox hospital, failed to prevent contamination of the vaccine with Smallpox - thus it became Variolation with the attendant 2% death rate.  That isn't surprising, given the lack of a real germ theory at that time, and the obvious ease of Smallpox contamination within that environment.  Pasteur and then Lister sorted it out half a century later.
There was a certain amount of fuss over this... and neither remains notable except to the anti-vaccinationists, then and now. Midgley 12:44, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pearson et al 

message: http://www.fishponds.freeuk.com/balloon.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Midgley (talk • contribs) 00:32, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flying a balloon and meeting a young lady 

message: Razzell 'the conquest of smallpox' and other sources claim that it is likely that Jenner used smallpox contaminated cowpox. They also claim that, in fact, deep into the 1800's people were actually variolating rather than vaccinating because of this and similar contaminations.
more information also on medline, in many journal articles - for a more general audience 'The speckled monster' by Jennifer Carrell
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opinion/classic-articles/dn10544-smallpox-extinction--a-note-of-caution.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.122.231 (talk • contribs) 22:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that was conflating an account about one of the early adopters after Jenner, who worked in a Smallpox hopspital and would have been variolating previously.  It was certainly one of the risks.  A reference might be useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Midgley (talk • contribs) 16:04, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jenner may have used contaminated cowpox 

message: Someone added the phrase "Jenner is a tosser.Jenner is a tosser.Jenner is a tosser" over and over again on the page.  I deleted the vandalizing segment.  Can anyone trace the roots of it and report the person- I don't know how.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenodonata (talk • contribs) 18:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As Greenodonata noted above, the Edward Jenner article was vandalised a few times recently.  Most of the vandalism was intentional, some seemed accidental, e.g. part of the caption for the Kensington bronze inexplicably remained.  A few minutes ago, I recovered the most recent legitimate version I found (08:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I forgot to mention that the vandal was 65.96.109.117, who has apparently been very busy ...  –Æ.  09:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

text: To other editors of this article:  If you added something recently which enhanced it, please check the article soon to see if your addition was lost and needs to be added again. I didn't detect any.  –Æ.  11:43, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recovery of article

message: I suggest that somebody, interested in this page, could insert an external link to the following page describing, with pictures, some Jenner’s memories: 
http://himetop.wikidot.com/edward-jenner
I don’t do it myself because I’m also an Administrator of this site (Himetop) and it could be a violation of the Wikipedia Conflict of Interest policy. Thanks for your attention.
Luca Borghi (talk) 13:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible link to Edward Jenner's items on “Himetop – The History of medicine topographical database” 

message: The last two sentences under the smallpox section:
"Edward Jenner was said to be homosexual but the investigation is still under way. Others say he was a child molester because of his work with many children."
Both statements seem strange, unrelated, oddly worded, and baseless. They are also full of weasel words, and cite no sources. Someone who knows more than I do might want to change this...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.87.255.134 (talk) 12:48, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, yet more vandalism, now reverted. I don't understand why this article is subject to such attacks! Time to semi-protect it? SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 13:26, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  This should probably be checked 

message: The article James Phipps has remained a stub since it was started in 2007. Virtually all the content at James Phipps can be found within the Edward Jenner article. There are only three other articles that link to James Phipps. The motivation for the merge proposal is that there is another notable person by this name that I wish to begin an article at that name.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by SauliH (talk • contribs) 06:36, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems very sensible, but you'd want a redirect to Jenner for James Phipps, so you'd need a soft redirect/disambiguation page.  Given the amount of material directly on Phipps, the redirect is going to contain most of it anyway.  Midgley (talk) 06:21, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

text: Although notable for one reason only, James Phipps is notable in his own right (over 115,000 google results for "James Phipps Jenner"), over 1,070 google scholar results, and certainly more notable than a significant proportion of the topics on Wiki. As there hasn't been any movement on this merge proposal for the last 3 years, I'm removing the merge tags. LT90001 (talk) 06:21, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger Proposal 

message: I've put in a request for semi-protection to counter the chronic vandalism here dating back to 2006.  --Lockley (talk) 21:35, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection 

message: Innoculation was long discovered and used widely in the Ottoman Empire. Why is Edward Jenner credited as the pioneer of this treatment? He hasn't done anything apart from presenting an old cure to the western world and all the information he needed was given to him by Lady Mary Wortley Montagu.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.231.172.1 (talk) 18:21, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Because Jenner used vaccinia virus and not smallpox virus from infected humans. And he based his experiments on a scientific hypothesis, which he tested—perhaps unethically by 21st century standards. All the information was not given to him by her Ladyship; she saw the use of variolation, that is, the use of smallpox virus, not vaccinia. Having said this, Jenner might not have been the first to use vaccination instead of inoculation (variolation), but this is a separate issue. Graham Colm (talk) 22:30, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

text: It is worth keeping the article clear (which I think it is at present) on the difference between inoculation and vaccination.  It might be laid on a little thicker, even.  Midgley (talk) 11:58, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Note Jenner would have been only 13 in the year Lady Wortley Montagu died so it would have been information in print and possibly not read by him in her lifetime.Cloptonson (talk) 09:22, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western Point of View 

message: Jenner was elected to the Royal Society for his work on the cuckoo, a significant piece of natural history or biological science.  I know that was in this page at a previous time.  Then he established vaccination, another large work.  The Cuckoo would have no place in a page about vaccination, but it certainly does in one about Jenner.  There's no mention on the talk page of a decision to remove it, so where  did it go, and shall we have it back?  Midgley (talk) 12:04, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edward_Jenner&oldid=92684161 contains it.  
PRIMACY OF JENNER'S WORK ON THE CUCKOO'S PARASITISM
Aristotle already understood the Cuckoo's parasitism. So I'm not sure it's accurate that Jenner was the first to determine this. From the History of Animals (citation: http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/history_anim.6.vi.html):
"[The cuckoo] eggs, but does not build a nest. Sometimes it lays its eggs in the nest of a smaller bird after first devouring the eggs of this bird; it lays by preference in the nest of the ringdove, after first devouring the eggs of the pigeon. (It occasionally lays two, but usually one.) It lays also in the nest of the hypolais, and the hypolais hatches and rears the brood. It is about this time that the bird becomes fat and palatable. (The young of hawks also get palatable and fat. One species builds a nest in the wilderness and on sheer and inaccessible cliffs.)"
Verazzano (talk) 01:49, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

text: It also seems worth recording who he married, or is there an argument against that in biographies?  THey met in a balloon-related incident.  Midgley (talk) 12:10, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cuckoo 

message: The Harvard Medical School's Countaway Library owns most of the Waterhouse materials (ironic since they forced him to resign in 1812) and did a bicentennial exhibition for which this website was also created. Visual sources on it include gifts from Jenner to Waterhouse, and several facsimiles of letters, cover pages of books, and correspondence (including some with Jenner). If photographs the letters between Jenner and Waterhouse, and/or President Jefferson and Waterhouse (or possibly, Jenner?) exist, that would be the source for them; See:
   https://www.countway.harvard.edu/chm/rarebooks/exhibits/waterhouse/index.html
I hope that's helpful.96.237.240.126 (talk) 05:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Jefferson letter and other materials on Waterhouse 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://cmajopen.com/content/161/12/1543.full. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  MER-C 12:35, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: "Jenner inoculated Phipps in both arms that day, subsequently producing in Phipps a fever and some uneasiness, but no full-blown infection. Later, he injected Phipps with variolous material, the routine method of immunization at that time. No disease followed. The boy was later challenged with variolous material and again showed no sign of infection."
Sorry, but this suggests that Jenner injected smallpox matter into James Phipps on the same day (14 May 1796) that he was vaccinated using cowpox, which is not true. I have checked numerous other sources and they all mention that Phipps was ill for nine days, but on the tenth day he felt better again. They also mention that Jenner came back with smallpox matter on the 1st of July, 1796, to be tested on Phipps.
Please consider amending the article, and I hope my points were helpful.
Thanks.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shate1234 (talk • contribs) 08:08, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You might be misinterpreting "later".  1 July 1796 is later than 14th May 1796.  You'd be offering an improvement in precision there.  Midgley (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  False Information  

message: Surely his nationality would have been British? He was born after the union of England and Scotland after all.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.196.133.68 (talk) 21:06, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Edward Jenner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090923015150/http://www.jennermuseum.com:80/ej/cuckoo.shtml to http://www.jennermuseum.com/ej/cuckoo.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090628230753/http://jennermuseum.com:80/sv/smallpox2.shtml to http://www.jennermuseum.com/sv/smallpox2.shtml
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I would like to alter "Edward Anthony Jenner was born on 17 May 1749[6] (6 May Old Style) in Berkeley, Gloucestershire, as the eighth of nine children." to "Edward Jenner was born on 17 May 1749[6] (6 May Old Style) in Berkeley, Gloucestershire, as the eighth of nine children."
82.18.242.88 (talk) 17:05, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: - there are numerous sources giving the name Anthony:- The University of Florida, Famous Biologists Geni etc. - Arjayay (talk) 21:50, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2015 

message: At present this article states — as does almost every other source that mentions John Fewster — that:  "In 1765, John Fewster published a paper in the London Medical Society entitled "Cow pox and its ability to prevent smallpox", but did not pursue the subject further."
Problem:  The Medical Society of London was founded in 1773.  Therefore Fewster could not have read his paper to the Society 8 years before it came into existence.
 
Sources:  
*  History of the Medical Society of London
*  Wikipedia's article:  "Medical Society of London"
According to this source — L. Thurston and G. Williams (2015) "An examination of John Fewster’s role in the discovery of smallpox vaccination," Journal of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh, 45 : 173-179 ; see p. 174. — the "medical society" to which Fewster belonged, was the "Convivio-Medical Society":  "Fewster was also an active member of the Convivio-Medical Society, a group of doctors who met once a month to discuss medical cases over a meal and drink." 
Furthermore, I've found no evidence that the paper was ever published.  However, I did find a source that stated that the paper wasn't published:  Ian & Jenifer Glynn, The Life and Death of Smallpox (New York, New York: Cambridge University Press, 2004), p. 100.
Note that according to Thurston and Williams, p. 177 (above), the earliest insinuation that Fewster had written a paper titled "Cow pox and its ability to prevent smallpox" appeared in 1886.
Fewster's own account appears here:  George Pearson, ed., An inquiry concerning the history of the cowpox, principally with a view to supersede and extinguish the smallpox (London, England:  J. Johnson, 1798), pp. 102-104.
Note that according to Fewster's own account, he made his discovery in 1768 or later, not in 1765.
VexorAbVikipædia (talk) 02:50, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fewster's "paper" of 1765 ? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Jenner's work with vaccinations was directly related to his interest in Zoology.  I think it is important to highlight that relationship and to acknowledge the importance of animal product use in vaccinations today.  Sam2072976 (talk) 09:55, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition to Zoology 

message: Image added of cowpox udder
Sam2072976 (talk) 09:51, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image added 

message: Vaccinations were most effectively used in the 20th century for the eradication of disease. Edward Jenner lived until the start of the 19th century. Germ theory was developed in the late 19th century. The implication that bacteria and viruses cause disease was still unknown in Jenner's time. The only vaccine standardized in Jenner's time was the small-pox vaccine and Jenner contributed to this vaccine most. This was the first variant of the vaccine and also the first vaccine used widely in Western Europe. Most principles of immunology were developed after Jenner's time, including theories of humoral immunity, antibodies, and antigens. These contributions were made after hundred of hours of work by dozens of biologists. It is often misunderstood by general belief that a discovery or a theory is made by a one person, that has not been the case for many hundreds of years.  Ethical Content (talk) 11:12, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jenner's contributions to immunology 

message: In the section about Jenner's death it says "Jenner was found in a state of apoplexy on 25 January 1823, with his right side paralysed. He never fully recovered and eventually died of an apparent stroke, his second, on 26 January 1823, aged 73." I think this makes it sound as if he lived for a while after his apoplexy but the article then says that he died the next day. Could someone please fix this? Bobby Neir (talk) 18:45, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jenner's death edit 

message: There is a pastel drawing by John Raphael Smith (1800) that shows Jenner sitting on a tree. To me, it appears more suitable than this rather old-fashioned looking anonymous portrait. --Hodsha (talk) 16:44, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portrait 

message: Basic information to add to this article: how exactly was the cowpox vaccine administered? Did hypodermic needles exist at Jenner's time? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 00:18, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Vaccinia/Cowpox isn't hypodermic, it is intradermal.  Get it too deep and it makes a big mess.  The more modern tool as I recall was a needle with a little forked sharp tip.  No lumen as with injections.  Multiple pricks through a drop of the vaccine into the epidermis. (That's from memory, but there's an account at https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/7004/)) Midgley (talk) 03:10, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: To add to article