Talk:Walter Scott

message: His novels may be less popular than they were, but it's stretching things a bit to say that he's rarely read.  I've read some of his novels and I know other people who have too.  If you want a best-selling Victorian novelist whose works are rarely read nowadays try someone like George Macdonald.  I don't know anyone who's read his work lately. -- Derek Ross
Please pick some other Victorian -old George, the inspiration to C.S. Lewis and G.K Chesterton unread? I have Lillith and The Princess and the Goblin on my self now. Amazon has many of his works in print even illustrated by Maurice Sendak or on audiotape. "If you want a best-selling Victorian novelist whose works are rarely read nowadays try someone like" Louisa Muhlbach.   ---rmhermen
:Don't get me wrong, -- I like George Macdonald -- I just don't think that he's that widely read now. His fantasy is probably more popular than his other stuff but "Sir Gibbie"? Still, I suppose that compared to Louisa Muhlbach... -- Derek Ross |  Talk 05:07, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'm a reader of George MacDonald. I think that his children's books are still read, and certainly the Doric in his Aberdeenshire novels make them of a particular interest. But Eric Linklater? There's an example of bad neglect, and Alistair Maclean is reportedly out of print now. --MacRusgail 17:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm curious about the line Scott suffered from a disastrous decline in popularity after the First World War. To whom was it a disaster? I don't think he'd have found it so as he was long dead. OK, perhaps his reputation, but I'm still not sure the 'disastrous' bit is necessary. With regards to jane Austn, no less a personage than Charlotte Bronte asked how anyone could find Austn more interesting than the Waverley novels.(83.13.39.98 (talk) 21:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  People read less these days.  Movies & television have usurped the place of books.
Dick Scalper (talk) 13:17, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rarely read? 

message: Why is he "Sir" Walter Scott instead of just "Walter Scott" in the article title, please? -- isis 24 Aug 2002
:Presumably he was knighted.JimD 09:07, 2004 Apr 6 (UTC)
::"Sir" (pronounced "cur" in the old jibe) came with the baronet bit - I've added the link following it by a Sir W. to explain this, also adding to the king's visit which was a pivotal moment in forming the scotch identity - dave souza 07:54, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  sir walter? 

message: The Hungarian literary critic Georg Lukács did some important work on Scott's innovative qualities, and is the one responsible for naming him the father of the historical novel. I think this should be included, I'll see what I can do, but if anyone know more about this subject, feel free. Eixo 10:36, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You could write it up from here, a resource from the National Library of Scotland, or this, taken from the castle's own guide, or this. (Sorry, trying not to get into any new WP areas myself...) JackyR | Talk 18:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Georg Lukács 

message: I added some information here which I fetched from 'The Book of Knowledge' by Harold F.B. Wheeler, publ. The Waverley Book Company, Ltd. London (undated but around 1931). Since I do not quite know how to make the citation correctly, I put the information here and maybe some kind soul will do this for me  ProEdits 84.208.99.96 19:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Should the second break on Abbotsford House not be deleted? It contains nothing about Scott himself. One could also just say: "The house is now a museum".--Hans Dunkelberg (talk) 17:48, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abbotsford House 

message: Please correct me but I think his birthday is today, not the 14th as written in th article. --128.176.236.246 13:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthday 

message: I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information.  I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list.  Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article.  Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here.  Regards, Durova 16:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultural depictions of Walter Scott]] 

message: In Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain, is the ship that was wrecked on the river named after this Walter Scott? And if so, could we possibly make a list of other places he comes up, either literally or by inference?All4One 14:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Walter Scott in Huckleberry Finn 

message: I'm reading Rob Roy. There's this huge rambling preface and introduction text complete with a few citations. Among other things, it relates an anecdote of Rob Roy MacGregor visiting his kinsman Dr James Gregory, inventor of the Gregorian telescope, and liking him so much he wants to do him a favor by taking his son off to learn Rob Roy's war-like ways. Is the anecdote likely to be true? -- Akb4 09:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  how detailed is his research? 

message: There's something that bothers me here in another web site it says a few different things like it says he entered the endinburgh high school in 1778 wich in imposible cause he would be 7 or 8????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?  Was he a guiness? Can someone please notifly me on that??????
Someone should edit the titles of Scott's books in the intro. At least two of them are incorrect. Was the writer joking? Mizelmouse (talk) 19:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different info?????? tell me the truth 

message: I feel the specification of one book only is advertising, particularly for a brand new book (date according to the publisher: June 2007). Perhaps this may be of interest or maybe this section should be deleted (I'm certainly not about to fork out 60 quid to read the book!) 85.22.12.185 21:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further Reading ??? 

message: The assessment section lists, among Scott's "many flaws", a "lack of humor". There are many humorous passages in Scott's novels, and these are often laugh-out-loud. Try re-reading Cuddy Headrigg's crafty self-defence before the Privy Council in "Old Mortality", or Edie Ochiltree's mocking of Oldbuck's "Prætorian" remains in "The Antiquary". If no-one cares to add a section on humour in Scott's works, I'll attempt it myself.--Mabzilla (talk) 13:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree and have removed that remark. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, for instance, says of him that "He was selfish in the way that creative men are selfish: for all his sociability and his capacity to make other people laugh, he offered others very little intimacy." Lesgles (talk) 01:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of humor? 

message: It took me a while but I have finally found out just what was exactly said as Danny Kaye walks away and utters 'Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to decieve'
A stage hand/cleaner type man moves into a full frame view and said something (to me) like 'Sir Walter Scotts mummy in candlesticks stands us seventeen, how beautiful.'
Now, after looking up Sir Walter Scotts words I have finally found out the words to be 'Sir Walter Scotts Mamion in Canto VI Stanza 17. How beautiful.'
The right words, truely are.
Thanks for this great film, Danny!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lisa sargent (talk • contribs) 13:13, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wonderman 1946 Danny Kaye film 

message: I added the Scott Monument to the list and deleted the "1896 American textbook" reference to the commemoration stone for Scott in Makar's Court as "acknowledged to be one of the finest monuments in the world." Makar's Court wasn't designated until 1999 and the commemoration is a simple engraved slab. I would presume that the 1896 book referred to the Scott Monument in Princes Street. Mabzilla (talk) 14:33, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Memorials and Commemoration

message: A recent addition "Scott was particularly associated with Toryism" has been made to the lead. It's true and, although uncited, could be referenced. However, the lead section should concentrate on what the subject was famous for, and contain nothing that isn't dealt with in the body of the work. If this is significant, it should be in the body of the article; if not, removed. I haven't the knowledge to assess this, or I would give it a try. --Old Moonraker (talk) 06:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Scott has been said to be particularly associated with ToryismThe Life of Sir Walter Scott by John Gibson Lockhart., though several passages in Tales of a Grandfather display a liberal, progressive and Unionist outlook on Scotland's history.
Such discussion should be found in the body if it is to be mentioned in the lead.  If his political views are discussed more thoroughly in the body it may be appropriate to add this back later. Lambanog (talk) 04:28, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. --Old Moonraker (talk) 06:09, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toryism 

message: Moving some pictures here that in my view add clutter.  If the article is further developed, perhaps they can be added back later. Lambanog (talk) 04:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Moving out some more pictures that clutter - that are not about Scott directly, are repeats or unclear portaits. 
   centre|100px|thumb|Walter Scott on a Scottish banknote
50px|left|thumb|Portrait of Sir Walter Scott, by Sir Edwin Henry Landseer
There are still seven evenly spaced and varied images for the fairly short text. Spanglej (talk) 03:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: I'm wondering about the works listings. No poets' article (apart from Scott's) lists poems individually - they write so many of them. This list is very partial. I move that for essays, stories and poems we only include collections - as is standard. Spanglej (talk) 03:12, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  poetry and prose collections  

message: I've added a clause left out of the quotation of Mark Twain's accusation that Scott was "in large measure" responsible for the American civil war, and changed the external link to one where Twain's original words can be found. The sentence following the one quoted reads: "It seems a little harsh toward a dead man to say that we never should have had any war but for Sir Walter; and yet something of a plausible argument might, perhaps, be made in support of that wild proposition." A wild proposition, indeed. Entertaining as Twain's over-the-top attack is, it's a pity that his position as an "early critic" gives his views undue prominence. More (cited) material from other critics is needed to give a better balance. --Mabzilla (talk) 15:58, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Mark Twain's disparagement of Scott is given prominence in both the "Later assessment" and "References in other literature"  sections. This is unnecessary duplication. The "Later assessment" section would best be reserved for serious criticism of Scott's work as literature, and Twain's references could be tidied up somewhat and confined to the "References in other literature" section. Any arguments before I edit? --Mabzilla (talk) 15:17, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Now done. --Mabzilla (talk) 18:39, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical assessment - by Mark Twain. 

message: Please correct me, russian tourist, but I think all the time sir W. died in his Abbotsford and his grave located at Dryburgh near his wife, where the family  had "hereditary right of burial in Dryburgh Abbey".
http://www.walterscott.lib.ed.ac.uk/biography/origins.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.173.81.131 (talk) 11:04, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Scott did indeed die at Abbotsford, and was buried at Dryburgh; "Abbotsford" was the name created by Scott for his house, which is situated in the parish of Melrose.--Mabzilla (talk) 15:16, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Melrose ? 

message: Is there a reference for Scott's use of practice as a verb in Marmion? OED uses exactly this quote as an illustration of to practise, for "to devise, … plan, scheme, intend". --Old Moonraker (talk) 09:21, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The only valid reference would be the first(1808) edition, I suppose. My copy is the 1896 Adam & Charles Black edition, which includes an editorial note dated 1st November, 1833: "Some alterations in the text of the Introduction to Marmion, and of the Poem itself, as well as various additions to the author's Notes, will be observed in this Edition. Sir Walter Scott's interleaved copy has been followed, as finally revised by him in the summer of 1831. The preservation of the original MS. of the Poem has enriched this volume with numerous various readings, which will be found curious and interesting." I've put a query on Scotliterary's talk page suggesting that Scott himself may possibly have changed the word in later editions. As Scotliterary apparently works for the Association for Scottish Literary studies, he should be in a good position for research. Mind you, his change of the Canto number from VI to IV makes me wonder...--Mabzilla (talk) 16:47, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Canto IV/VI is my own stupid error, sorry, fixed now ... My reference for the 1808 (2nd) edition comes from a scan of it on Google Books, available at http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Marmion.html?id=XQYUAAAAQAAJ The relevant quote on p343 uses "practice", and my own copy of the Shorter OED has: "Practice 6. The action of scheming, esp. (now only) in an underhand way for an evil purpose; machination, treachery, artifice. arch. 1494." It also has: "Practise 11. To p. upon: To practise tricks or artifices upon; to act upon, by artifice, so as to induce to do or believe something; to impose upon, delude; to work upon (a person or his feelings, etc.) 1596." Which doesn't really help ... however the 1808 edition does use "practice". Again checking Google's scanned editions, the 5th edition of 1810 also has "practice", but by the time the 10th edition is published in 1821 the spelling has become "practise". Whether this is an original error by Scott and/or his original typesetter, later corrected, or a later error by a later typesetter, thereafter reproduced, I don't know ... both spellings are, frankly, reasonable: the only argument for favouring "practice" would be that it is (in the absence of a first edition to check) the original.--Scotliterary (talk) 13:27, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the link. It's practice as a verb on p. 236 as well, so the same typesetter would have to have made the same mistake twice! If that is Scott's original usage, we need to stick with it, and that answers my question. Thanks for the research. --Old Moonraker (talk) 21:14, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

text: I've done some further investigation and I've discovered that the third edition was the last edition Scott worked on himself. As such, it's being used as the base text for a forthcoming edition of Scott's poetry to be published by Edinburgh University Press, and it reads "... practice to deceive". I don't think a change to "practise" by 1810 can be seen as a correction/move towards the modern British English standard spelling, though: if you look at the lines from Canto VI, 3, in the 1808 edition, which read "Fitz-Eustace, loitering with his bow, / To practise on the gull and crow,", that's clearly using "practise" as a verb, which would be correct in modern usage; by 1821 though these lines have been "corrected" to "Fitz-Eustace, loitering with his bow, / To practice on the gull and crow,". It all seems pretty random to me! However, I agree that the modern, corrected spelling of the quote should use "practise" ... it might be better to change the spelling back again to its modern standard form and just consign this can of worms to the bin! –Scotliterary (talk) 12:52, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: O, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice/practise to retrieve... (Sorry, couldn't resist it). Whichever, a footnote might be helpful to forestall a succession of reverts.--Mabzilla (talk) 13:40, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Footnote added: feel free to amend as necessary! —Scotliterary (talk) 14:33, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Practice" as verb in ''Marmion'' 

message: glancingly referred to here. Also, I have read that Lochinvar was the most popular ballad in nineteenth century America. Several of Scott's versions of ballads passed into oral tradition, I believe.Mballen (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:52, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The Walter Scott Minstrelsy Project is a joint project run between the Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz and the University of Edinburgh. In related news, Illustrating the Brothers Grimm and their correspondence with Sir Walter Scott - Books - Scotsman.com . . . . dave souza, talk 19:16, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: New Section needed on influence of Scott on prestige of ballad and folksong collecting

message: Sir Walter Scott is classified [by Wikipedia and other sources] as a writer in the Romantic period, not the Victorian one.
MacLennan123Maclennan123 (talk) 16:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literary Period:  Romanticism 

message: "Scott was the first English-language author to have a truly international career in his lifetime" - I have removed this completely as it is a contentious assertion, the only source for which is a commercial one - His old house, which is now a day spa available for weddings and bar mitzvas. I'll keep removing this until a proper source is found by me or someone else. It is equivalent to the brochures ,made by London/Dubai brokerage houses, lauding London's status as a place of financial brokerage. It's a non-source.
In order to do this I had to reshape the opening from:
"Sir Walter Scott, 1st Baronet, FRSE (15 August 1771 – 21 September 1832) was a Scottish historical novelist, playwright, and poet.
Scott was the first modern English-language author to have a truly international career in his lifetime,[1] with many contemporary readers in Europe, Australia, and North America."
To:
"Sir Walter Scott, 1st Baronet FRSE (15 August 1771 – 21 September 1832) was a Scottish historical novelist, playwright and poet with many contemporary readers in Europe, Australia, and North America."
And made a new paragraph beginning:
"Scott's novels and poetry are still read...". I believe it reads better this way, that "contemporary" needed to be "highlighted" (kids doing their homework) & that I have removed an invalid speculation with good reason. Robin J Thomson (talk) 13:10, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

message: Most of the information here has already been said above. Check by using search string "south bank of". Rui Gabriel Correia (talk) 23:37, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repetition of content 

message: I understand that study of Scott’s writings was stressed in American schools, and that some explanation of the cultural reasons for this is useful. However, most of this section is taken up by the lengthy quotation of Victor Rabinowitz, explaining why, as a ten year old schoolboy, he was dismayed by Scott’s lines on loyalty to the land of one’s birth, feeling that they were disrespectful to migrants such as his father. While this anecdote is interesting, and gives some insight into the nature of patriotism in the “new world” of the United States as opposed to the “old world” of countries such as Scotland, is it not given undue weight in this article?--Mabzilla (talk) 20:42, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scott and education in the United States 

message: Did he not also write lives of Dryden and Swift? Seadowns (talk) 20:56, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-Fiction works 

message: Sir Walter Scott's novels were wildly popular across the American antebellum South and some historians are now crediting them with helping to launch the US Civil War.
--Rumjal ````  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumjal (talk • contribs) 23:34, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Walter Scott novels a cause of the US Civil War 

message: Andrew Lycett's life of Kipling contains one or two interesting mentions of Kipling's view of Scott. I will try to document these at some time. Unfortunately Lycett's index is slovenly and inaccurate, and doesn't mention Scott. Kipling advised a young woman to read Scott once a year as "medicine".  Seadowns (talk) 13:32, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You can use the Amazon "Search inside" function here. The medicine quote is on page 410. William Avery (talk) 08:32, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  literature by other authors 

message: How many did he have? --Infovarius (talk) 08:23, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Children 

message: That Scott was influenced by gothic romance, and had collaborated in 1801 with 'Monk' Lewis on Tales of Wonder,  is not mentioned here. Rwood128 (talk) 19:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gothic novel 

message: The 1827 'Scotts Poetical Works' has "..[H]is lameness, occasioned by a fall from his nurse's arms at two years old.." []  should I replace "As a result of his early polio infection, Scott had a pronounced limp. "  with "Scott had a pronounced limp resulting from a fall as a child.." or do we need to explain the differing accounts?  Where does "As a result of polio" come from and how reliable is it as a source? JeffUK (talk) 23:30, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Autobiographical account --Morinox (talk) 09:46, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Seems pretty clear,  thanks! JeffUK (talk) 11:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cause of Lameness 

message: The works that Sir Walter Scott wrote 2600:1007:B027:B320:BDCF:8A8B:9C8B:687C (talk) 21:26, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sir Walter Scott 

message: His knowledge of history and literary facility equipped him to establish the historical novel genre and [???] as an exemplar of European Romanticism.
I tried to guess the ???, but this morning it didn't come to me. — MaxEnt 16:01, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exemplar of word salad 

message: Going by the traditional phraseology of feudal hono(u)rs (Duke, Earl, Viscount, Baron, etc.) shouldn't he be "styled" (just here, where full name and honors are listed) as "Sir Walter Scott, Baronet," or
"Sir Walter Scott, 1st Baronet of . . . " of what? Abottsford? "Sir Walter of Scott"? Or maybe best,"Sir Walter Scott, 1st Baronet Scott"? Otherwise it sounds as if he were the the first person ever to be made a Baronet, not the first of his "line." 
My understanding is that "baronetcy" was a way of honoring people without conferring military rank or any kind of feudal "scuttidge" but is inheritable. Not exactly a "fake" honor because you get seated before common folk at state dinners (precedence) and you and your progeny are "Sirs" for life and beyond. I only mentioned "fake" because I think in Georgian times money was often known to change hands. Now it's more a way of honoring people for the money (and other contributions) they've already made. 
2601:643:8B84:2940:0:0:0:828E (talk) 10:53, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't know if this is any help, but there is a book entitled Life of Sir Walter Scott, baronet, by George Gilfillan, published 1871, which might throw some light on this. I don't have the full bibliographic details, but I saw a copy in the National Library of Scotland. There is also an article by P. Garside, ‘Patriotism and patronage: new light on Scott's baronetcy’, in issue 77 of the Modern Language Review (1982). That might be you best source. I don't have access to it but it might be available in the National Library or elsewhere. Mike Marchmont (talk) 12:36, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  A quick follow-up, the article I mentioned - ‘Patriotism and patronage: new light on Scott's baronetcy’ - is available in JStor. If you have access to the Wikipedia Library, go to JStor and search for the title of the article. It 13 pages long. I haven't read it, but at first glance it looks like it would be useful to you. (And I just noticed it is already listed in this article's references [item 57].) Mike Marchmont (talk) 12:42, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomenclature: 1st Baronet of something? 

message: So, what exactly is this 1893 book ?  Something falsely attributed to Scott?  Something by him and published posthumously that we have missed?  Previous writings by him repackaged under another name?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:07, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Manners, Customs and History of the Highlanders of Scotland, with an Historical Account of the Clan MacGregor'' 

message: I am surprised to fond no mention of his finances, ending in catastrophe. It is a complex story, needing an expert to tell it. Liscaraig (talk) 16:38, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  His finances