Talk:Illegitimi non carborundum

message: Is nil illegitimi nor corporandum the proper phrasing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.144.240.88 (talk • contribs) 15:39, 13 February 2006.
:What ever happened to "Semper ubi sub ubi." ?
::The decline of western civilization. — LlywelynII 06:51, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment 

message: The "literal" Latin translation discussed in this article looks wrong. I'm unwilling to correct it because that would be very clear original reasearch. The illegitimi (actually a nominative or geninitive ending) can't be an agent, as the article suggests, because that would require an "a" or "ab" (cf "patriae est a te consulendum"). Also, this can't mean "one must not be ground down"; but it could conceivably mean "one must not grind down", because this is surely an impersonal construction of the "mihi eundum est; eundum est" (I must go; one must go) type. The dative indirect object is the thing that must (not) do the action, not a general "one". In other words, this must mean "bastards (not 'one') must not grind down". Also to say the gerundive must be in the passive voice is either tautological, or unhelpful, or wrong, because with gerundives the distinction in Latin doesn't really exist between active "fighting wars" and passive "wars being fought" but the literal translation seems to have an active force. I'm sorry if all that seems terribly pointless and pedantic. I suppose taking nonsense-Latin literally is pointless. It's just that the article does just that and seems to get it wrong. --131.111.128.77 (talk) 22:24, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literal Latin 

message: It seems the article ought to include a proper translation of the intended meaning into Latin. --Belg4mit (talk) 00:27, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thinking the same thing, I went to google translate, which gave me: "Noli illegitimi carborundum." Not that Google Translate is authoritative. Sjponder (talk) 22:53, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proper translation 

message: :The first word varies between illegitimi and illegitimis. Illegitimi is presumably the nominative plural of illegitimus meaning "unlawful" or "outlaw" in Latin, but interpreted as English "illegitimate" in the sense of "bastard", in this case, used as a generic insult.[11]
First, we shouldn't make presumptions but just discuss that the other options don't work ("bastard's") or work the wrong way ("BASTARDS, hear me! Do not let them grind you down!") so that the only option left is a typo or Life of Brian style mangling of Latin grammar.
Second, 'unlawful [offspring]' is precisely the meaning of bastard and is perfectly at home in Latin, certainly by its medieval iterations. It's not the illegitimate that's wrong or mistakenly calqued; it's the idea that it carries over into any of bastard's other senses. It certainly wouldn't've meant generally unpleasant person in ancient Rome. That said, casting aspersions on other people's mothers works just fine as an insult in any language or culture... It just works slightly differently than it does in translation. In any case, the idea that it only applies to outlawsas opposed to those who lack legal statusis silly and should be cleared out of the article. — LlywelynII 07:20, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Proscriptivism is even sillier in dead languages

message: The article includes explanations from Latin scholars, explaining why it is not real Latin. Fair enough. This "talk" article has a discussion of what it would look like in "real" Latin. Also good stuff. So will someone commit to putting something on the actual non-talk page that explains what the correct translation of "don't let the bastards grind you down"? Put something out there, instead of hiding behind the "talk" page.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.233.56.35 (talk) 00:09, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: So put the correct Latin phrase on the page!!! - what are you waiting for!?!?! 

message: What does "the extra cod Latin verses" mean? Does one need to be familiar with Latin to understand this phrase? Liz Read! Talk! 12:43, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Dog Latin, Cod Latin, macaronic Latin, mock Latin, and Canis Latinicus are all synonymous, and are used to describe sentences or phrases that are meant to sound like Latin, but aren't. The phrase "the extra cod Latin verses" just means extra verses that are written in cod Latin. 79.240.215.127 (talk) 21:44, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Except one is so much more common than the other that the second shouldn't be used at all. It's needlessly distracting, as noted. — LlywelynII 06:55, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:   Extra cod=More fish? 

message: Why is the fact that the operations department at a niche website (kink.com) uses this motto relevant? And the RCFPA (?) club? This seems trivial and akin to if an internet forum, etc, used it. I feel it dilutes the listing of uses. Either the list should be exhaustive, listing every small adoption, or representative, in which case only institutions or movements that have had an material impact on society should be listed.173.226.186.140 (talk) 06:38, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivial listings under "Use as a motto" 

message: This phrase definitely needs an entry in the Latin Wik!195.166.150.98 (talk) 09:39, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Still not one but that's probably because the place to discuss it would be the Latin wiki's own Community Portal space for article suggestions. — LlywelynII 06:59, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latin Wiki

message: The gravestone shown in the article is disrespectful to the individual and the surviving family, as it serves no purpose other than to repeat the quote. The interred was not the first to use the quote, so there is no reason to include it, or any other image with the quote, unless it serves to make a point, which this does not. Furthermore, I doubt that the family gave permission to use it. As such, it should be removed. Skaizun (talk) 22:50, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Why? You're presuming that we all share your opinions of what is and what isn't disrespectful, whereas I don't understand where you're coming from. Showing a gravestone in a neutral context reminds us of our ancestors and is inherently respectful to the dead; it is saying "you are not forgotten". It is somewhat decorative, but we're visual creatures, and giving us an example of actual use helps.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:42, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disrespectful image 

message: I revered the recent change that turned this into what reads like a blog entry.  It speculated about what Latin students commonly do, included jokes about Latin teachers, etc.  This is not how we write encyclopedia articles.  I also removed the "in popular culture" trivia list.  The only source listed in it was to Discogs, a site that is user-generated and clearly not a reliable source. Per this consensus, these sections need to be properly sourced and clearly demonstrate why the examples are worthy of being mentioned in an encyclopedia article.  This isn't TV Tropes, where we list every media  title that used a popular phrase.  Our articles would drown in indiscriminate examples if this were how we wrote them.  These examples can return, but they need citations to reliable sources. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:53, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Um... Wikipedia is "user-generated", is it not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 00:32, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, it is.  The reason why we can't accept citations to other user-generated sites is because writing something on one website, then citing it on Wikipedia is the same as just adding it to Wikipedia without a source. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:26, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: This article ought to discuss the related Nolite te bastardes carborundorum popularized in the novel The Handmaid's Tale. A DuckDuckGo search for the latter phrase led me to this article instead. The reason is that there is a WP redirect from Nolite te bastardes carborundorum to Illegitimi non carborundum, but for some reason there is no mention of the phrase in the current article and no discussion above as to why it might have been omitted or deleted. -- ℜob C. alias ALAROB 14:34, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I've added mention of Atwood's use of the phrase with, hopefully, sufficient citation that it survives cleanups. Jno.skinner (talk) 18:23, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nolite te bastardes carborundorum