Talk:Equestrianism

message: I think this page needs to be expanded in terms of perhaps methods of teaching/training and also the different disciplines of riding. There is nothing on hacking or trekking and little on English riding. Ashfan83 15:42, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Expanded

message: The Olympic section needs editing, we need to check whether vaulting, reining and driving haven't been made into Olympic sports? One could also mention the other major international tournaments like the World Cup and Samsung Nations' cup.
Other points barely covered: para-equestrianism, pony competitions and Young Riders, Breeder's shows and of course, general expansion of the European/Olympic forms of competition. I'm aiming to look into the European sections in the next few weeks, hopefully before Aachen!
I have also noticed that very few famous equestrian performers are covered in Wiki as a whole, would it be appropriate to include a few here, or should they go under their respective sports, such as show jumping/dressage/eventing/driving? --Wilma Sweden 01:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Horse category is HUGE and very disorganized.  There are in fact articles on most of these things--somewhere. There are articles on hunters, jumpers, Olympic Equestrian (though that article is terrible!), almost every breed out there, most of the international and American organizations, etc.   The problem is lack of linking and lack of good categorization.  Everyone can help with that problem! Montanabw 16:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corrections to be made 

message: I recently read an article saying horseback riding belongs to animal cruelty. Perhaps an expert can verify to what an extent this is true and then include the results with cited references in the article. Skypher 19:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IMHO, riding as cruel per se is pretty strong POV.  And, anyway, this article already has a long "cruelty" section under the "criticism of horses in sport", it's at the bottom of the article.  Plenty of material and many wikilinks.  You could say this particular horse has in fact been beaten to death...the whole article needs more citations,overall, but that's a different issue.  Montanabw 00:29, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The section you mention is indeed not satisfactory, just a collection of "might be"s and "could be"s.  No information on hard, for example medical, facts, nothing particular on horseback riding... Skypher 18:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Find it, cite it, add it.  Don't whine.  If you want to put in the proposed language here first before sticking it the article, go ahead, probably best, actually.  However, remember that Wikipedia is NPOV.  And you will also start an edit war on this highly controversial topic, so tread with great care. Riding done properly isn't cruel in the eyes of anyone but extremist animal rights people.  I mean, is there a section in the fishing that says fishing is cruel to fish?  Montanabw 20:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Horseback riding and animal cruelty 

message: The article neglects to mention warfighting, one of the most prominent historical uses of the horse. Fuegonel23 19:22, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See the VERY EXTENSIVE and long, detailed article Horses in Warfare, which IS linked from this article. Montanabw(talk) 18:43, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Necessary Section Missing 

message: Can we have a section on horse-riding in Iceland as their style of equestrianism is  unique  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Catherinefionarichardson (talk • contribs) 17:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See Icelandic horse.  Seems the breed of horses are unique, but the riders don't appear to be (grin), I know there are some riding style things related to riding gaited horses generally, maybe you want to look at equitation.  If there is some unique aspect to riding Icelandics, maybe explain what you mean here and I can direct you to the appropriate article or make a suggestion for a new article.  Also maybe take a look at gaited horse and ambling, these are the general articles on gaited horses.  The problem is that EVERY gaited breed(heck, every breed, gaited or otherwise, we have over 350 breed articles in the task force...sigh) thinks their breed is unique...don't want to start edit wars with, say, the Peruvian Paso crowd (smile). Montanabw(talk) 20:34, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Iceland

message: I am proposing getting rid of the gambling section.... I have nothing against a good wager, however, it doesn't seem to flow with the article and I find the section is too long/detailed.  It doesn't seem to me to be integral to 'equestrianism.' Can we just mention betting on horses, and then link to the gambling page? --AeronM (talk) 01:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have mixed feelings on the issue. On one hand, I kind of agree with you, I bet on a few horse races on occasion and gambling is big money in the horse industry, on the other hand, the relevance is questionable.  Guess I don't care deeply either way, but whoever added the section, whenever it was added, cared.  I suggest we let it sit a week or so here as a discussion and see if anyone else weighs in.  You may also want to read what's in the horse racing article and the articles on gambling or parimutual betting to see if a simple wikilink or two would be apt. It's also possible that it could just be added to the laundry lists at the end of the article.   Montanabw(talk) 03:40, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  There seems to be a very good description on the parimutuel gambling page... I suggest a wikilink and remove section here. --AeronM (talk) 01:38, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't break my heart.  I say go for it.  Use the "Main" template to link to the appropriate articles, perhaps both the horse racing one and the parimutuel one.  Been several days now.  Maybe see if Cuddy Witter has an opinion, that editor patrols the horse racing articles a lot. Montanabw(talk) 02:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Gambling section

message: **Dressage 
**Show Jumping
**Saddle Seat, etc
::::Dressage and show jumping are listed in the Olympic/International section  Montanabw(talk) 02:29, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: English

message: **Rodeo
**Roping, etc 
:::: <- Roping is a rodeo event.  Montanabw(talk) 02:29, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Western

message: Hello, all --
I realize that this is a distasteful subject to many in the horse field, especially among those with a love of show jumpers, but the John Edwards and Rielle Hunter affair currently in the news has opened up many, many questions on the subject of the late 20th century horse murders scandal. The reason for that, in case you don't know, is that Rielle Hunter was formerly Lisa Druck, whose father, James Druck conspired to have her beloved show jumper Henry the Hawk electrocuted to collect the insurance money on him. This tragedy formed the backgtound for a 1988 novel based on Lisa Druck's life, called Story of my Life by Jay McInerney. Later, in the early to mid 1990s, the scandal was exposed to the public through articles in the New York imes and Sports Illustrated, and then through a full-length book called "Hot Blood." An FBI investigation into the horse murders led to the conviction of a number of highly placed people in the show jumper and general equatrian sports world on charges of insuracne fraud. 
When Rielle Hunter's background was probed, due to her affair with John Edwards, it turned out that she and her horse were prominent victims of the horse murder insurance scam. But in trying to link this information up to her bio article, it turned up that there is no article on the subject of the horse murders at Wikipedia, doubtless because the scandal occured before the development of the world wide web. There is an article on the murder of the millionairess Helen Brach whose death, in 1977, was also connected to the horse murder scandal. 
I am looking for a few good editors who have the brackground to write a horse murders article, and to link it to the Helen Brach, show jumping, and Rielle Hunter articles. No need to reply to me -- if you are interested, you know what to do. I will try to help, also, as best i can, but the topic is far from my usual fild of writing, and i would prefer to see it handled by those with the greatest depth of knowledge on the subject. 
I am posting this identical request to a number of horse-rleated talk pages, so you may see it more than once, for which i apologize in advance.
Sincerely, catherine yronwode Catherineyronwode (talk) 02:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Horse murders scandal article request 

message: I've reverted some good faith, but unneeded edits and unsourced edits to the article. Discussion of horse breeds is better done at the horse breeds article. Equestrianism does refer to other activities with horses besides just riding. And we don't need to update the date on the "references needed" tag nor do we need footnote text on an interwiki link. Ealdgyth - Talk 19:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And I reverted some more.  Will the editor doing this please take their concerns here to the talk page? Montanabw(talk) 08:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ---All I am trying to do is add references as the page needed. Apparently my additions are too wordy so I am shortening them so references can be added to the page. 03:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Kris.  We do welcome your attempts to improve this article.  However, this article needs to be summarized, not made longer! LOL!  The problem isn't that your additions are too wordy, it's that they contain material that was moved to a different article several months ago and deleted from this article as unnecessary.  Perhaps read Horse racing, Thoroughbred horse race, harness racing and some of the other articles to see if the material is still there.  By the way, if you are looking for a project, all of those articles are sort of a mess and could use some organization and cleanup! Montanabw(talk) 23:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverts 

message: Interpretation of data concerning risks require consideration of statistical issues.  Some helpful Wikipedia pages about these include: 
*Selection bias
*Lack of case control
*Lack of correlation
*Correlation but lack of causation
*Low quality of evidence
A handy navbox is :Template:Medical research studies.  --Una Smith (talk) 17:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Interpretation of data

message: Could someone with statistics experience please read , Pattern of equestrian injuries presenting to a Sydney teaching hospital for some important information.  The article reports a trend over 6 years of increased helmet use and decreased rate of admission to hospital.  But, did the analysis properly control for any confounding effect of year on the association between helmet use and admission?  Also, is there possible selection bias due to a patient consent requirement in the 2nd half of the study period?  --Una Smith (talk) 20:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Sanity check:  Syndey NSW data

message: I appreciate the work that has gone into this proposed addtition, but it still lacks credibility, does not address the issue of riding drownings, spinal or men's injuries. A quick check of some other sites makes no mention of Twinzor's injury claims. Tim Vickers has summed up the issue very well. Other sites of interest are:
*Injuries associated with... EQUESTRIAN ACTIVITIES 
*http://www.physioworks.com.au/Injuries-Conditions/Activities/equestrian-injuries Equestrian Injuries
*https://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/176_08_150402/tay_hol_letters.html Spinal cord injuries in horse riding
Cgoodwin (talk) 04:48, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Drownings...  Is that an equestrian problem, or a backcountry travel problem?  Are people more likely to try to cross swiftwater on horseback, than on foot?  Cgoodwin, do you have other contexts in mind, apart from swiftwater?  --Una Smith (talk) 18:22, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In reply to Cgoodwin, could you elaborate on how in your opinion the proposed section lacks credibility? Are you contesting the whole section or a part of it? What, in your opinion, should be done to establish credibility? Thanks! — Twinzor Say hi! 20:42, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing content

message: This article should mention this term, which refers to the major changes that occurred in cultures that mastered the art of horse riding (refs). The history section could use some major expansion. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  00:25, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not here, as this article is a very brief overview of everything, but perhaps in the Domestication article or [{Horses in warfare]], depending on the quality of the source and the verifiability of the material.  Montanabw(talk) 06:40, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cavalry revolution 

message: Ok, I have this page already a long time on my watch-list, and now that I see some new activity regarding this article, I think we maybe have to consider what we want in his article, and what should be in other articles. What bothers me is that this article is primarily a list. I think that is not a good idea, and I suggest that we lift the list aspect out of this article, and make that a separate List of horse sports or List of equestrian activities or something like that.
After that, we can focus here on the general aspects of equestrianism that span the different sports etc, aka, History, Diversity of activities, Health, Criticism, Cultural aspects, etc. What do others think of this?
Anyway, it would be nice to take this article to GA or something like that as this is one of our top priority articles! -- Kim van der Linde at venus 02:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the article really fits the B quality as is. It is mostly list-like, and its scope is not what I would call clear. Generally agreeing with Kim. There's weird stuff like gymkhana being a side clause under a list entry under rodeo, and endurance riding under racing. There's stuff that's dealt too generally with (like "Standardbred horses are used for harness racing".) The structure overall is messy. Stuff is missing, and it's going to be tricky to add with the current structure... IMO we need to first decide what we want this article to be (I suppose some of the subtitles proposed by Kim should go to a "horse sports" article in case this gets redefined as a "horse riding (and nothing else)" article), maybe create a draft with nothing but subtitles, and then start from scratch, maybe returning to this article as a guide. Pitke (talk) 09:10, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: My thinking is keep this a sort of annotated uber-list because we already have separate articles on almost everything.  Someone pointed out that we failed to look at things like vaulting, and that horse management is also equestrianism (History of equestrianism?  OMG where to begin?  We already have the domestication article, and then we need to split off riding and driving ... I'm not opposed to material on health, culture, etc., but I think they may be the proper separate articles.  We DEFINITELY need a general-overview riding article (which this once was), but I think it needs to be a new article with a logical title, and we probably need to add a history section to driving (horse). The reason this article has been languishing is because fixing it is a big, time-consuming job.  But if everyone is in, so am I.  Montanabw(talk) 03:33, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  General structure 

message: The following text was removed from this article yesterday, with the edit summary "Actually not, apparently men and women also compete together in the yachting sports":
:Equestrian events are the only Olympic sport where men and women compete equally with each other.
I suggest that this edit be reverted and the text edited slightly to make it clearer that (if the source is correct) it is only in the equestrian disciplines that men and women compete against each other on equal terms. If my understanding is correct, which it may well not be, in yachting and, as has been mentioned elsewhere, badminton, men and women compete together in teams, but not against each other. The only other sport I can think of offhand where men and women may compete on equal footing is target-shooting, but I don't know if that is an Olympic sport, or what the rules are if it is.
I'd also suggest that the point be amplified, either in this article or elsewhere. Sexual discrimination in sport is entrenched and apparently virtually unopposed, in a manner that would be considered unacceptable in almost every other context in modern society and is to me personally quite incomprehensible. One of the most attractive aspects of equestrian sports is the absence (in places, at least) of that discrimination.Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:16, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, sorry, there was already a reference on the page, which didn't show up in preview. The relevant one is [2] of course. I think the formatting of the reference itself may need some attention. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:22, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm confused. If there is a man and a woman on one team, and a man and a woman on a second team, and the two teams are competing against each other, doesn't that mean that men and women are competing against each other? Also, the equestrian article is not the place for an extended discussion of sexual discrimination in sports, nor are any of the other equine articles that I can think of. Something like Gender in sports or Sexism in sports may be the place... The majority of your second paragraph (on sexual discrimination) above is also opinion, not sourced fact... A brief mention that equestrianism is one of only a few Olympic sports where men and women compete together and against one another would probably be warranted - a discussion of why it is anti-discrimination not so much...even if you could find a source for that, which I don't think I've ever seen, even in books that deal solely with equestrianism at the Olympic Games. Dana boomer (talk) 19:09, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We got our heads handed to us (or, to be accurate, I did) for making this claim on this very topic a couple years ago in the Equestrian at the Summer Olympics article, so I for one would be pretty gunshy about splitting hairs, particularly given that I know squat about yachting and very little about badminton.  I agree that sexism in sports is a serious issue, but this isn't the forum to beat that particular drum.  Maybe the Olympics article, which raises it briefly as, I think, "one of the few" sports, would be a place where there could be some expansion on the topic.  In this article it could hijack it with undue weight, particularly as there is another lurking issue of sexism in rodeo and, for that matter, horse racing, and several other disciplines.    Montanabw(talk) 01:09, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Men and women 

message: There seem to be two estimates of first riding 4500 BCe in Russia according to reference or 8000 BCe in Iran according to cave painting
Can this be clarified
-----  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chadnash (talk • contribs) 13:18, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably needs to be reconciled to Domestication of the horse, thanks for pointing that out.  Montanabw(talk) 01:50, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  First riding question 

message: Can anybody please help with a query over at the Miscellaneous Refdesk; WP:RD/M#Shabraque_image. I seem to have stumped the resident polymaths! Alansplodge (talk) 14:00, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll peek, thanks for the heads up.  Montanabw(talk) 18:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Refdesk query about riding accoutrements 

message: Taking tagging issue to talk, per BRD - the situation is simple:  As you can see, this article is long, complex, and occasionally subject to assorted controversies.  It is in need of general improvement and sourcing, but the three most active members of wikiproject equine are working on other things. Periodically, small runs are made at various sections, but progress is slow.   There is no harm to a universal tag, and if we were to go through the article and place  everywhere GA standards would require a cite, there would be a gazillion tags.  That's why it's there.  And why it needs to stay there.  Montanabw(talk) 18:19, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tags 

message: The way the article is currently written makes it sound like simply wearing spurs can cause ankle sprains or dislocation. I think what the contributor was implying is that when a rider wearing spurs falls, the spur may catch on the ground or something else and cause the ankle to twist hard enough to cause a serious injury.  White Arabian mare (talk) 16:35, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: THat's a really good point; the source article is only available as an abstract and the bit on ankles is vague- unless someone can access the full article and explain it better, I think it was best to cut tht bit for now, so I did.  We can re-add it if we get additional sourcing (can't google "ankle" "spur" without tons of articles on bone spurs, meh...)  Montanabw(talk) 03:59, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I read something somewhere talking about a man who broke his ankle when he fell and his spur caught, but I can't remember where and it was more a 'warning, this can happen to you!' thing anyway. White Arabian mare (talk) 02:03, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spurs contribute to ankle injuries? 

message: The line "Show events such as Western pleasure use much flashier equipment, unlike the English traditions where clothing and tack is quiet and unobtrusive" bugs me.  Sure, some western rodeos and such will sometimes see bedazzled clothing and a little silver here and there, but compare that to English riding with white gloves, bright white breeches and top hats and long tails (on the jackets, not necessarily the horses), knotted manes, and I would argue English styles are far from quiet and unobtrusive.  See File:Saddle_seat_Tail.jpg for example. But I don't know how to describe the differences in a way both camps would appreciate. Nerfer (talk) 22:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, show western has rhinestones and bright colors to put you eyes out, lots of silver on saddles and bridles, and so on : got any photos to show this?)-- all the English disciplines have clothing based more or less on formal wear of one century or another.  Huge difference.  Montanabw(talk) 07:07, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I do and it's a side by side to show the contrast. Atsme📞📧 15:24, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western, NPOV? 

message: Strange there is no article about horses as transportation.-ApexUnderground (talk) 21:15, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Transportation

message: The article states that 30 million people ride horses in the US each year. While the cited source supports this, that number seems incredibly high. A quick google search shows a number of other sources, all of which seem to suggest numbers that are lower by at least an order of magnitude. For reference, a number of 30 million would suggest one in ten people in the US rides a horse each year (including the elderly, infants, etc). While this is possible, it strains credulity. Jefffhaynes (talk) 01:59, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about riders per year 

message: Hi, garrocha seems to be some Iberian riding-wih-a-pole exercise. There are a few YouTube clips, but not much info there or elsewhere; all I know is the Goya painting. Anyone? T84.208.86.134 (talk) 07:52, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: See Acoso y derribo. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:17, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you :)  T 84.208.86.134 (talk) 21:34, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Garrocha? 

message: I believe the correct term ought to be (although it currently isn't) Equestrics.  Equestrianism sounds like a horse-ruled political system, such as a herd of wild horses might observe amongst their own kind and hierarchy.  Rather, in the same manner we refer to athletics, gymnastics, aquatics, aerobics, Olympics, and acrobatics... we ought to be saying Equestrics. 2601:243:4:E90A:84F5:EC7A:8C9E:8699 (talk) 20:12, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Equestrics