Talk:Chris Benoit/Archive 5

message: Does Benoit belong in the American categories (and is he a Canadian American)? While some people (myself included) believe permanent residents should be considered American it has been the general trend of wikipedia to go strictly based on citizenship because that is a non debatable (and non POV) standard. see the archived discussion at Seung-Hui Cho for some good back and forth on this.
So that being said did Benoit ever become a citizen of the united states? If not then should we should remove all of the American categories? harlock_jds 03:02, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He moved his permanent residence to America a while ago, it wasn't something recent, so either he was an illegal alien to the US, or he was American. And considering he was touring the United States with the WWE for approxiamtely 3/4 of a year in the U.S., yes, he had to be a citizen. — Moe ε 05:21, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No he could have been a permanent resident (aka had his green card) which allows him to live in the united states but does not grant him citizenship. Many people stop at this point instead of actually getting their citizenship (because it's time consuming and doesn't really give you that many additional rights). He did not HAVE to be a citizen no matter how long he lived in the states.harlock_jds 11:15, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

text: My opinion is that someone who lives in and is permanent resident of a country should normally be identified as a person from the country, as well as from the country they have citizenship with. However self-identification trumps all and if it's true (based on reliable sources) that he did not consider himself an American then we should not call him an American. Indeed we should mention this fact in the article. However reliable sources are important here, not fan speculation, OR, or what happens in the WWE (as wrestling is a scripted entertainment medium, it's easily possible the reason he was identified as Canadian there had nothing to do with what he wished to self-identify with). Unless a reliable source can be found that he did not consider himself an American then yes, he was a Canadian and an American Nil Einne 08:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like i said i before agree with you about Permanent residents being considered Americans but that isn't a unanimous POV (even among people with permanent residency). I think in order to be neutral we have to stick with Citizenship (which is pretty undebateable). Also note thatbefore all of this happened Benoit wasn't considered an american in any catagory... not sure why he is now.harlock_jds 13:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I identify as Canadian, although because I work in entertainment, it's quite possible that I might end up working (and therefore living) in the United States. If I lived all my life identifying as Canadian (which I would), and did not try to attain American citizenship, and yet after my death people started calling me an American when I wasn't around to correct them -- well, I get *really, really* upset thinking about that happening in my future. If, Chris Benoit self-identified as Canadian and held only Canadian citizenship, he's Canadian -- period! (That covers both legal and personal preference -- what else is there?) I realise that a murderer's preferences may not count for much, but a Canadian's preferences do, thank you very much.--65.95.121.252 03:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Well that's indisputable I'm afraid, there's no question he should be listed as a Canadian. Incidentally, there was no question about that even before these quotes, it isn't common practice to list people's nationality on the basis of where they live. It's always been citizenship. Blankfrackis 14:57, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well if it matters I did a quick Google search and everything I saw said he is a Canadian.  --CrohnieGalTalk 11:52, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Benoit an American? 

message: [source] states that Benoit's son was mentally handicapped. Can someone please explain? Especially with those rumours of him taking drugs... Unreliable source? Hoodie 11:44, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently the issue of whether Daniel had fragile X syndrome is by no means settled with the parents of Nancy, who spent time with the child regularly, saying they were not aware of any such issue, ESPN --Justanother 11:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's bizarre, I heard he had autism.--VorangorTheDemon 04:55, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fragile X Syndrome in many ways can be compared to autism. I think that was mentioned in the  WWE.com article. Legendotphoenix 15:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mentally handicapped son?

message: does it have to be repeated so much in his article that he killed his family?BlueShrek 03:05, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it's what he's more widely known for. Benoit was known for as a wrestler, but now he's more widely known as the wrestler who murdered his family. --VorangorTheDemon 04:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Because that is what is is notable for, and the lead (opening) of the article is to be a summary of the major points of the article.  The murder-suicide is a major point of the article (or at least should be). - T-75|talk|contribs 18:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: why

message: Why is the last section even in the article?  It only repeats things already said before and it's not written very encyclopedic.  "Some people say" shouldn't be in the article and it shouldn't say "as of this morning" or "this afternoon". --SGT Tex 14:59, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. --Guyver8400 15:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Thirded. Legendotphoenix 15:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Fourthed, and removed. Contained too many weasel words and it already repeated in the paragraphs above it. — Moe ε 16:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WWE's Reaction

message: Should we start to archive all the murder-suicide related stuff on the talk page? I really don't think anything notable is going to happen that would deserve being added further to the article. Or at lease archive this page, as it's getting entirely too long? Legendotphoenix 15:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Archiving finished. — Moe ε 16:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive?

message: Its time to start a new article. At the moment, the murder-suicide section is way too large. Any thoughts.  QuackGuru  talk 16:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He is more famous as a killer than a wrestler. I recommend a summary here and a new article started. This has made national headlines.  QuackGuru  talk 16:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Him being more famous as a killer is precisely the reason that we should trim the section in this article, and then create a new article. This article should not have all of the information regarding the murder to be a good article. WHY? The inclusion criteria is an article on Chris Benoit and not also the murder. Please read the title of this article. It does not say: The Benoit family murder-suicide tragedy. We have essentially two articles in one. What next?  QuackGuru  talk 19:29, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed--Guyver8400 19:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, but O.J. Simpson was found not guilty of murder, so there couldn't be a page about that. (And the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman wasn't a big story. The trial was the big story.) The Chris Benoit murder/suicide is one of the biggest news stories of 2007 - and will get bigger as WWE faces the consquences of the fallout. It should be its own article because of that. But it's okay to wait a while so we have a better idea of how to put it into context. Celedor15 20:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: What title would you suggest for the new article. I recommend we start a subpage for the new article.  QuackGuru  talk 02:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Incorrect, He is more famous for being a professional wrestler that is why the the murder got some much news. ExtraDry 02:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: While that is correct, He would not of got the amount of publicly if he was some random guy off the street. So becouse he was a wrestler is why the murder made so much news. ExtraDry 03:37, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: that's true, but the fact remains that he's a household name because of his murderous actions, not his wrestling actions. DurinsBane87 03:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text:  If a random citizen killed his wife, child, and himself, how notable would it be compared to this incident? I don't like the word famous, because it implies a positive connotation. He is now infamous for the incident, but I just wonder what the national news response would be. The initial buzz was because of his stardom, I believe. The problem I have with creating a brand new article is the question of notability. How worthy is this incident to have its own page? The Wikipedia policy says that it needs to be significant, reliable coverage, but I believe that notability comes once the buzz dies down. Will Benoit's fame make this story more notable than a normal person? Why does this particular event constitute notability though others don't? This event seems as if it will stick with the wrestling fans longer than the normal people. I guess I think of news stories in the recent past in America, such as the DC sniper attacks in 2002. How often do people think about that event? If it is often then alright, but is it? Notability seems to derive from the effect on history. How important is this event? Wikipedia should not be used to store present news, this is not a time capsule. If this event is deemed important enough to deserve notability and thus its own article, then so be it. I think that without knowing why this horrible event occurred, we can't make a reasonable judgment. If this is the catalyst of reform because of something that is revealed in toxicology or something, then it would be more notable than it is now. His family is not notable, and he is simply because he is a wrestler. I believe that saying he is more infamous for killing his family than wrestling is kind of awkward, because he is more infamous for killing his family because he is a wrestler. Five years from now, why will people look back at this, because he was a wrestler who killed his family or because he killed his family? I believe it will be the former, and I believe that this is the reason that a death page is unreasonable, unnecessary, and that the death section here should be trimmed maybe, or at least kept as is and just let the article go on. Goofyman 06:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Not true. His wife was big in professional wrestling for two decades, and the child was the offspring of two famous people in wrestling. Granted, wrestling fame often isn't as big as fame in other venues, but this was still a "celebrity" family. And certainly our celebrity oriented culture has put more emphasis on this murder suicide than other similar incidents not involving celebrities. Just a couple weeks ago there was a guy who killed six people, including himself, in a domestic dispute here (Delavan, WI), and it hardly made a ding in the news. Benoit's murder/suicide was a huge story. The media and the popular culture are obsessed with celebrities. Celedor15 21:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the media likes celebrities. And this celebrity murdered his entire family. His family never made news reports and unless they rise from the dead and start their own talk show, his family wont make the news reports for anything else. Benoit killing his family and then killing himself is, as they say, Benoits business. And it is Benoits news. JayKeaton 04:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Benoit family murder-suicide tragedy 

message: Anchoress 03:17, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Relax. The "titties" comment was an unregistered IP doing some petty vandalism. I have deleted it from this topic.. I think Benoit's Doctor getting charged does belong in this article (or any possible separate article on the crime) as it is a direct result of the murder/suicide.--Garistotle 14:38, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Benoit's doctor charged 

message: Concerning the "Roid rage" issue Dr.Gary Wadler has stated "that was a premeditated act and that's not rage, I would wonder whether there was some underlying psychiatric abnormality that was unmasked by being on steroids," []. I believe this should be integrated into the article, considering the status of Dr. Gary Wadler who currently serves on the World Anti-Doping Agency's (WADA) Prohibited List and Methods Committee and has served on its Health, Medicine, and Research Committee. Wikidudeman (talk) 06:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whomever removed his comments, please explain here before removing them again. Thanks. Wikidudeman (talk) 18:50, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  He was at the scene? he examined the bodies? he's got the police files? --Fredrick day 18:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He's an expert on Anabolic Steroids and their effects. He currently serves on the World Anti-Doping Agency's (WADA) Prohibited List and Methods Committee and has served on its Health, Medicine, and Research Committee and he has served as: Medical Advisor to the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, a Trustee of the Board of the American College of Sports Medicine and of the Women’s Sports Foundation. If his opinions aren't relevant on the issue then no ones is. Wikidudeman (talk) 18:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dr. Gary Wadler speaks out... 

message: I find it very disturbing that a post from Stamford Conn. 14 hours before bodies were found is being so easily dismissed.  I also find it strange that the evidence has not been followed completely before a conclusion is drawn.  
As a criminal justice major going into forensics the post on wikinews needs to be more deeply investigated...stranger things have happened then murder made to look like sucide.
Just a thought unfortunately I am shocked if this truly was a murder sucide as the media is telling us I am very saddened because Chris Benoit was one of my favorite performers in the WWE to see this as what he will be remembered for is very tragic.
(68.224.239.100 06:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Police have been investigating the person who made the post, but that's all I know at the moment. Arrowny 12:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: Yes, Benoit purportedly murdered his wife and son, according to police investigations. The nature of  this case is sufficient under the category murder-suicide (which in itself has its own article). Any additional categories are redundant and add ambiguity - categorization should be specific. 
Technically, Benoit was not convicted by a Canadian court of law and therefore cannot be categorized as a either a Canadian criminal or a Canadian murderer. Plus, Benoit is notable as a wrestler - the people included in Categories such as "Canadian criminals", "Canadian murderers", "Criminals who committed suicide", "Murderers of children", are known specifically for those purposes. Throwing Benoit in with the likes of Paul Bernardo does not help users find what they're looking for any better.
I am not condoning what he did, nor attempting to push a POV on the categories. However, there is a standard with articles which sometimes is forgotten in the heat of the moment - I am sure there are many people who are upset by what has transpired, but we must maintain consistency. --Jay(Talk) 17:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Benoit is notable as a wrestler - that is what he was originally notable for - however, he's now always going to be notable as "the wrestler who killed his family" - OJ doesn't come up in many conversations about being an actor or a footballer those days. --Fredrick day 17:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the Murder-Suicide category fits the description best without overloading the section with categories.--Garistotle 18:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i think Canadian murderer  and Canadian suicide should be included because the category murder-suicide is a subset of the 2 larger categories. if someone was doing research and wanted to see all of the articles categorized as Canadian murderers they should find Benoit in that list instead of having to include murder-suicide in their search criteria. as for Canadian criminals i can see dropping it since he can't be convicted. of a crime.harlock_jds 18:25, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text:  em.. yes you should be using wikipedia for research, no you shouldn't be citing it - there is a difference. It's perfectly legitimate for someone to use wikipedia to get the list of murderers and then use reliable sources for further information and to confirm. So the suggestions that you shouldn't ne using wikipedia for research (in the broader sense) is incorrect. --Fredrick day 18:37, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: He was never, and cannot be, convicted of murder, thus we cannot add him to a category of people who committed murder. — Moe ε 04:47, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I think there's a difference between "Murderer" and "Convicted of Murder".  It's possible to be a "murderer" without also being convicted of the crime.  Unless the "murderer" category states that it is a category only for convicts, then there's not reason not to apply the category more broadly given proper citations.  Rklawton 05:24, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No one has has added "Convicted murderers of children", which is why the category is "murderers of children". JayKeaton 06:42, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories 

message: it was on the news that his son possobly didnt have it
:Source please? — Moe ε 21:51, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh lord, well, when it's on FOX, CNN or something, let me know, but the internet wrestling community tends to be wrong sometimes :/ — Moe ε 02:32, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, like when some random IP heard a rumour that his wife was dead and added that to the page. Wait a second... --ʇuǝɯɯoɔɐqǝɟ 02:41, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Really.. I'll go look into that. — Moe ε 03:03, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Found some sources that aren't from the pro wrestling community:   It appears that investigators do not believe that that child had fragile X syndrome at all commenting as there was no prior records of his disability, etc. — Moe ε 03:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: not fragile X

message: Hogan said that Nancy was into satanic stuff. This was quoted on one of the news programs. Could he be referring to her time with Kevin Sullivan's satanic group? No one else related to this case or who were friends of Nancy and Chris said anything like this! I don't believe anything that Hogan says (since he does tend to exaggerate things completely) but i thou8ght i should mention this.(MgTurtle 04:27, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems that is correct.  [(unreliable source - do not use) www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_21290023.shtml]  Hogan suggested that Benoit and Nancy had a domestic issues that arose because Nancy "worshiped the devil". — Moe ε 04:37, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hulk Hogan's comments

message: There's also a report that says that a neighbor of the Benoits found the bodies and now she is in hiding from the media. The report also said that the WWE was trying to contact her. Does this adda new twist to this already bizarre and tragic story? (MgTurtle 04:31, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it verifiable from a reputable source? --Jddphd 04:35, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll start looking. — Moe ε 04:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

text: OK, I found one link thats not a pro wrestling site  about it, but I must say that it is strange because it says that "Regan said McFague was close to Nancy and her son, who suffered from Fragile X syndrome that causes mental retardation, but that she didn’t care for Benoit." And if you see above, his fragile X syndrome status has been questioned, and this story is slightly newer than the one above by a couple of hours. Strange. — Moe ε 05:02, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

text: From what I understand on this angle, both WWE and the neighbor called the cops; the police went over to the house, but didn't want to enter the building on their own because Benoit's rottweilers didn't know them and were acting territorial.  The dogs knew and liked the neighbor, so they asked her to accompany them into the house so the dogs would accept their presence, and she ended up being the one to actually find the first body.  Yet another bizarre twist in a bizarre story, but nothing sinister or mysterious.  Rdfox 76 23:59, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neighbor

message: I read somewhere that Chris Benoit had changed his will to where his sole beneficiaries were his older two kids plus his ex-wife.  Also he had taken out a new life insurance policy...All of this happened like less than a month before this tragedy...  I can't find the link anymore but it was kind of really odd to read that, especially if he was still with Nancy and Daniel. -- Shatterzer0 17:13, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have heard the life insurance thing... not the changing of the will. From the information I heard, he opened a second life insurance policy (entirely possible) where the sole benefiaries on that were his ex and two kids. --Garistotle 17:47, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Benoit changed his will?

message: I was checking up on the WWE website and found that in addition to all stories, merchandise, and vidoes related to Chris Benoit were gone. But on the Power 25 from June 23rd, his spot was whited out and when the next Power 25 came out he did not revieve the farewell for losing his spot
: Currently on WWE 24/7 they have an airing of WCW Nitro from 2/10/1997 and his match and all references to him on that episode have been deleted. If you need a citation the only places you'll probably find one is on wrestling sites.--Hndsmepete 02:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Little hunch.. it might help to check the right June 23. http://www.wwe.com/inside/power25/062307/ He was whited out. But don't worry... no biggy. --Garistotle 14:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: But if you check, Benoit is STILL listed on every other P25. I wonder if they are planning to remove...68.165.90.178 18:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: It would be rather difficult to delete the existence of someone holding a title. The belt was not vacant during those times, and it would require the WWE to make up a reason how the title was won. Crinos43 08:38, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WWE After the incident

message: On the page for Shayne Bower, a.k.a. Biff Wellington, there appears an amazing coincidence. (Benoit & Bower were both professional wrestlers from Canada. They were tag-team partners for at least 3 years, 1989-1992. Oh, and they both officially died on June 24, 2007.) If this information is correct, then shouldn't it be on the Benoit page as well?
:Is that really that important? It would be different if the deaths were related.CraigMonroe 07:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It probably shouldn't be on the Bower page in my opinion. As far as their lives being related, you may have a minor point. However, it is of minimal--if any notability--in my opinion and should not be included. Especially when you consider that Bower did not die on the date you said he died. His "official date of death" will be a few days before June 24th according to the preliminary medical reports. But hey, what is a few days...right?CraigMonroe 14:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I read about Bower's death on the Observer over a week before the Benoit incident--he died BEFORE Sherri Martel did, which had people worried that it would be another "trifecta" of wrestler deaths.  While the Observer may not be Wiki-reliable, it's reliable enough that I've seen it used as a source by the national media, and Dave Meltzer is invariably brought in as an expert interviewee any time there's a wrestling story that hits the mainstream media (and is more than just a legit-sports cameo)...  Rdfox 76 15:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: My page??? What page did I write? I don't see how in any way you can attribute a wikipedia page to "me." As for using wikipedia as a source, that is innapropriate. You need to find a credible third-party source. For example, do a search on yahoo for a newspaper article. Also, I don't know anything about reading about Bower a week before Benoit, but according tot he articles I found on the net, Bower's body was found on the 24th by Bowers father and he had been dead for several days before hand. Also, place four tildes (~) at the end of your post so it will have your signature. Thanks. CraigMonroe 19:02, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Benoit & Bower

message: In the article it says his son died on Saturday and Benoit killed himself later on Saturday or early Sunday. This is incorrect, the news has reported he killed his son on Saturday or Sunday and himself on Monday.
:No, it has been confirmed that he did in fact, as much as it kills me to say this, Kill his wife on Friday, his son Saturday, and himself early Sunday morning as he text messages were sent at 4am. Trust me, i have watched wrestling for upwards of 10 years. This story has consumed my life since it has happened. But their first assumptions were that he killed his wife Saturday, son Sunday, and himself Monday. But since the autopsies have been performed, it was confirmed his wife died Friday, his son on Saturday, and hiself Sunday.--MCRluvr 2:41, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Error

message: The article says:
"The DVD is now in high demand; sellers from Amazon.com have been offering as much as $150 for it."
How can a seller be offering money for something? Isn't it the buyer that offers money? Should I change it? This comment is my first ever entry on wikipedia btw, so I'm not really sure what to do. Liam, 6/7/07.
Well, if you haven't yet, register for an account so you can get past the lockdown. Then, change all that you want. I believe you should change that, it does sound strange. One Fried Egg 15:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Grammatical error?

message: This notes the issue of the Wikipedia entries correctly prophecying his murder-suicide—Preceding unsigned comment added by  (talk • contribs) 
:done. --Rajah 10:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: and just for the record, the reason for the category addition is not just the edits, but instead the attention that those edits received. a la, Siegenthaler, Zoeller, U.S. Congressional staffers etc. --Rajah 10:28, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Add Category:History of Wikipedia

message: Seeing as other arguments have been going on further up the talkpage, I think we need a vote for or against this. I personally think a split is needed, as the death section in this article is getting too long. I remember splitting the article of Bob Woolmer which was suspicious at the time, and has come along well since, at Death of Bob Woolmer. However, it could be argued that Benoit's death is getting more coverage than Woolmer's did, and therefore a new page is needed. I don't know what we could call the page, though, I was thinking of Death of Chris Benoit and his family, what do you think? Davnel03 08:39, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *The argument that the current Chris Benoit article can just be edited down is a curious one to me; I've thought one of the strengths of wikipedia to be the fact that you can be expansive in a way that print encyclopedias can't. RyanGrant 23:36, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nominated for deletion for the countless reasons given above. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Benoit family tragedy. Wikidudeman (talk) 08:41, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split Needed? 

message: "WWE.com has all but deleted his name from all of his title reigns on their Title Reigns page."
Does that make sense? They haven't deleted his name at all.<P>
:All but deleted means they've done everything BUT delete him DurinsBane87 18:19, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: All but deleted

message: Okay, I just wanted to add this to the discussion page. This may not even be important at all. I read on SEEScoops Pro Wrestling News that Kevin Sullivan said that Nancy hit him during the last year or years of their marriage. I don't have any other source that says this but I thought i would mention it because I guess because I thought it was unusual and could be untrue.Also does anyone know if Daniel was nancy's only biological child? (MgTurtle 18:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nancy?

message: This article is way too big, instead of trying to make 2 different articles, why not just make one that is worth reading, since this one gets modified every 2 hours.The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 18:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is currenly a AFD for the other article. If you don't think there should be two that is a better place to go. --69.156.206.245 03:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too Big 

message: Yesterday, O & A were doing a segment on their show and it was about bad breathe contest.  Anthony said that the guys breathe was as bad as "The Benoit family house".  Can that be mentioned here or on the other page.The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 17:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What? Who? I fail to see how it's relevant. I fail to see how it's anywhere near relevant. Wikidudeman (talk) 18:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, this doesn't sound too notable to me.  This can't turn into a list of every mention of Benoit. DrWarpMind 23:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthony  

message: Under the murder-suicide section, it says that WWE.com's WMXX page lists the main event as Shawn Michaels and HHH, but I just checked the site and it actually says "When Triple H tapped out to Chris Benoit, it was the first time in WrestleMania history that the main event ended in submission.". Also, on the main event page, it mentions Benoit a few times, although the picture of him has been removed 71.159.131.94 20:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrestlemania XX 

message: I wanted to add the fact that Nancy's and Daniels' funeral are being held together in Daytona Beach, Florida today (July 14, 2007) but i can't find a source for it other than the fact that nancy grace said this on her show last night. No word on Chris's funeral but it has been said that it's going to be private. Just thought i would add this so someone can finda reliable source. (MgTurtle 16:02, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Funerals 

message: I read an earlier report that said the Fayette Count DA stated when they found Chris Benoit, the bar that he used to hang himself with had been removed and he was seated.  Therefore, I have to wonder how did he hang himself?   [ 18:25, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earlier Report 

message: I'm not talking about weight being enough to kill someone.  I'm saying the bar had been removed from Chris' neck.  He could not have removed the bar, if he was already dead. Angelsmwh 01:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: HE REMOVED THE BAR BEFORE HE HUNG HIMSELF!!! thats already been stated! The juggreserection 13:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earlier Report 

message: In the intro, "he had been regarded as one of the best technical professional wrestlers of all time" needs a cite.  It previously read "of his time" which matched the Slam reference.  He may well be regarded as one of the best of all time but someone else has to say it first.  davidwr (talk)/(track) 13:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Best wrestler of ALL time needs cite 

message: Why wasn't there any report of alcohol in Chris's system when he was found with empty beer cans near his body? Were those cans there from another time? (MgTurtle 19:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The site I'm reading, which is a summary of the toxicology report, states that Nancy's BAC was 0.184.  It also makes the disclaimer that they aren't certain if that's from alcohol or from decomposition.  Mike 19:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you looked in my room right now there'd probally be an empty bottle of Tequilla sitting near the trash, but that doesn't mean I drank it right before it was found. Beer cans could have been from any time, maybe even right after he killed his wife, and had enough time to flush out of his system again. Some people with messy habits also keep old cans and what not lying around for a week or more. TheJudge310 22:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Alcohol? 

message: It was mentioned on nancy Grace tonight that Chris was keeping a journal ever since Eddie died and that it was given to the family (didn't specify which family but I would assume Chris's). Could this have answers to what was happening in the marriage and why wasn't this noted in the original investigation? Will more evidence be coming out since the toxicology results are out? And what about the safebox Nancy reportedly had that had stuff about her life? This needs to be addressed and answered~ (MgTurtle 04:06, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Journal? 

message: Has there been any more info on the guy that posted the death statement 14 hours before the bodies were found? I remember reading an article that his name would be released "early next week" the weekend that he was taken in by the authorities...that was quite some time ago, so what happened with that person? 71.159.131.94 18:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh? When was this? The last info I saw regarding the poster was: Police have "seized computer equipment from the person responsible for the postings," and have called the confession an "unbelievable hindrance." It has also been reported that "if the person had knowledge of the death before police discovered the body, he or she could face criminal charges." There hasn't been any mention since then, even the Wikinew's most recent article on this is pretty old news. So please, give a link if there has been anything else on this, because there certainly isnt any info about it on wikipedia71.159.131.94 22:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia Poster

message: I would like to see someone write a proffesional and personal wrap up stlye, a legacy, what Chris will be remembered for, what those in the industry and those who observe the industry proffesionally state.
:Wikipedia is not a memorial.  Rdfox 76 17:18, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not say a memorial, just "Chris's legacy is ........ or just a career summray, wrap up. Several famous people have something like that "so and so was an actor most known for such and such style, and was considered at xyz level, blah blah blah"RBLakes 04:49, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We already have that. he was widely regarded as one of the most popular and gifted technical professional wrestlers of his generation. That's all we need, and like it or not, hes' most known now for killing his family, not wrestling. --Laugh! 04:55, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, seriously, let the issue die - no pun intended.  Fighting for Justice 05:03, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy 

message: I oppose the usage of the term "Double murder-suicide". Since "murder-suicide" is hyphenated, it is treated as one term, and thusly each of the actions in it are multiplied by two when the adjective "double" is applied to it. The current term means he murdered twice, then killed himself twice. However, it is technically impossible to commit suicide twice, and the term should be changed to something more appropriate. Such as "Double murder and suicide".
:First off, please always sign your posts on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~), as suggested above the edit window.  Secondly, "double murder-suicide" is the term that the local police used in their press conferences.  If it's accurate enough for them, it's accurate enough for Wikipedia.  Rdfox 76 17:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree: the likelihood of a local police in Georgia being experts in English grammar is, shall we say, rather remote, and their use of a particular expression, if incorrect, should not (outside of a direct quotation) bind anyone else to the use of the same expression. If the pedantry bothers you, you may be comforted that the OP made a couple of his/her own mistakes ('thusly' is not a word, and 'each of the actions' is a singular expression, thus the correct for of the verb 'to be' is the first person singular, i.e. 'is', not 'are'), but on the substance he/she is right. As an alternative I would propose 'double murder/suicide', as the expression 'double murder' is acceptable without hyphenation (and should therefore be preferred for the sake of simplicity)and the 'backslash' is generally recognised as denoting an alternative rather than a conjunction, but I shall await alternate views before editing. Lordrosemount 00:20, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Double murder-suicide" is inaccurate 

message: The page has stabilised quite a bit in recent weeks, and I think it's a very good article, so should we perhaps consider giving it a GA run? -- Scorpion0422 17:11, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say it needs quite a bit more work. The randomly interjected names is an issue. We need to briefly explain who some people are like Stu Hart and whoever else. The name is just there, and some people have no idea what it means. Convienence needs to be part of a Good article as well. You can't randomly throw in names with links attached to them, it's inconvient for the average reader and confuses them. We need to write the article like we're talking to people that don't know anything about the guy. --VorangorTheDemon 02:50, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA?

message: Their article repeatedly claims that no anabolic steroids were found in Benoit's body, which is flat-out wrong. He had massively elevated testosterone levels, and testosterone is an anabolic steroid. Their article also claims it was definitively proven that "roid rage" had nothing to do with the murders, which is also false. The medical examiner said he had no way to determine whether steroids were a factor in the murders. 71.203.209.0 14:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: rajah.com is a bad source

message: Since this article has a bunch of references, I thought it should be cleaned up with the following:

  
For an example of it use see The Simpsons Movie.
Mr. C.C. 06:59, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning Up References/Footnotes/Notes