Talk:Caravan (Juan Tizol and Duke Ellington song)

message: Thought the inclusion of this song in the film was too notable to omit, as the soundtrack has won many awards. I made sure to cite a source but there may be a better one to use in which case please edit it as you see fit. Currently I kept it to one line in the section but I feel it could be it's own section.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.96.46 (talk) 01:57, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whiplash as other version 

message: "Notability" is the second requirement listed for WP:SONGCOVER.  A cover song's notability is inherently linked, in part, to the notability of the cover's performer. WP:NSONGS, referenced by WP:SONGCOVER, states, "Songs and singles are probably notable if they have been the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works whose sources are independent of the artist and label."  Here are some published references to James's covers of Caravan:
*allmusic.com, Scott Yanow, "Harry James, Saturday Night Swing, AllMusic Review by Scott Yanow," http://www.allmusic.com/album/saturday-night-swing-mw0000891338
*allmusic.com, Scott Yanow, "Harry James, Still Harry After All These Years, AllMusic Review by Scott Yanow," http://www.allmusic.com/album/still-harry-after-all-these-years-mw0000308798.  The review mentions the Sheffield Lab direct-to-disc recording process which bypassed the use of magnetic tape and recorded the audio directly onto the analog disc master, which would be of interest to audiophiles.
*ARSC Journal (Association for Recorded Sound Collections) Vol. 45, No. 2, Thomas Fine, "Harry James and His Big Band: The [Sheffield Lab] Harry James Sessions, 1976 & 1979," https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1G1-390562001/harry-james-and-his-big-band-the-harry-james-sessions
*discogs.com, "Harry James – Saturday Night Swing," https://www.discogs.com/Harry-James-Saturday-Night-Swing/release/2031834
*discogs.com, "Harry James & His Big Band ‎– Still Harry After All These Years," https://www.discogs.com/Harry-James-His-Big-Band-Still-Harry-After-All-These-Years/release/2670074
*Big Band Library.com, Christopher Popa, "Collector's Checklists: Harry James 33s," http://www.bigbandlibrary.com/collectorschecklists33sjamesharry.html
*pastemagazine.com, Bill Milkowski, "Harry James & Orchestra - Opus One/Caravan," http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2011/06/harry-james-orchestra-opus-onecaravan.html
*pastemagazine.com, Bill Milkowski, "Harry James & Orchestra - Caravan," http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2010/09/harry-james-orchestra-caravan.html
Audio Downloads:
*https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054OC8C0
*https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DX4VDH4
*https://play.google.com/music/preview/Bq22bqvgspulaczccohmk2veniy
*https://play.google.com/store/music/album/Harry_James_His_Big_Band_The_Harry_James_Sessions?id=Bqoc6mkkxl24scnmtlgmlxa2bui
*http://redmp3.cc/album/686606/saturday-night-swing.html
Videos:
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpaV9DoKIM0
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlB82UZwuKg
Incidentally, there are a lot of references to the video of James's live 1964 cover of Caravan in Japan, featuring Buddy Rich on drums.  Perhaps that performance should be added to the list of covers.
*Drummerworld, Buddy Rich CARAVAN - Drum Solo with the Harry James Orchestra - 1964, http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich64caravan.html
*YouTube, Harry James-Caravan Live from Japan 1964, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyEeVTgZmOk
*YouTube, Harry James - Caravan - Japan 1964, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXL1ellNO0
*YouTube, Harry James-Caravan, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY5v4Lk-_gQ
And this video of James's/Rich's live performance of Caravan from the early 1960's
*Daily Motion, Caravan - Buddy Rich (Drums) with Harry James & his Orchestra, http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2thwi8
*Vimeo, Harry James Orchestra , featuring Buddy Rich “Caravan”, https://vimeo.com/63132117
*YouTube, Caravan - Buddy Rich (Drums) with Harry James & his Orchestra, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-AOK5ykfo4
Just curious what is it about these Harry James covers that is causing such a high level of scrutiny that has apparently not been applied to the other cover versions listed? There doesn't appear to be any challenge or evidence of how the other covers comply with the WP:SONGCOVER criteria, though in my opinion all the covers listed are relevant. Bubbatex (talk) 00:00, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again, notability of the artist is not the main point of WP:SONGCOVER. The main point is that the cover version should be discussed in reliable sources which are about the song itself, not about the artist. Videos don't satisfy the requirement. Audio downloads don't satisfy the requirement. Discogs is not reliable as it allows users to change the information. Binksternet (talk) 03:56, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  23-FEB-2016 

message: Should the article's "Other versions" section list the cover versions by Harry James and  Santo & Johnny? Bubbatex (talk) 00:24, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Binksternet, a lot of unreferenced "other recordings" is not encyclopedic, but, if references can be found, I have no problem with adding a couple of example. --Richhoncho (talk) 09:42, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Charting at number 48 on the Hot 100 chart qualifies for inclusion in the "Other versions" section and should never have been removed in the first place. Furthermore, Billboard is a trusted published reliable source. Revert the deletion. Caden cool 12:56, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Charting as a single is definitive. Changing my !vote to Yes for Santo & Johnny, but No for Harry James. Binksternet (talk) 05:16, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Binksternet was the one who removed Santo and Johnny from the article. He also originally voted against Santo and Johnny here in this RFC. He only changed his vote after I informed him that Santo and Johnny charted at number 48 on the Hot 100 chart and deserved to be mentioned in the article. Caden cool 13:55, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

text: I'm going to leave the RfC open a little longer to see if a consensus develops for both tunes.Bubbatex (talk) 23:29, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I'd include Harry James, on the basis of sources such as this and this. But the rules at WP:SONGCOVER are quite strict, aren't they (even if I disagree with them). Martinevans123 (talk) 09:49, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you Martin. I would include Harry James too. As for Santo and Johnny they pass WP:Songcover and we have consensus for them to be restored but Binksternet has yet to do that. Caden cool 16:37, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

text: I would suggest you restore it as soon as possible Bubbatex because we have consensus to do so. Caden cool 23:26, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC: Inclusion of Harry James's and Santo & Johnny's covers of Caravan

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