Talk:Amber/Archive 1

message: I'm not sure how to handle the "folklore" stuff.  Certainly it's all nonsense (aside from being badly written), but if it's nonsense that some specific group of people believe, there's no reason not to report on that belief.  I suspect that all of this comes from a single source, so that source should be named.  Otherwise, there's no way to know whether this is actual folklore or just one man's ramblings.  --Lee Daniel Crocker
:yes, Lee - see my entry on Corvus's page.  I think it's from a source.  If Corvus is capitalizing this way himself, he's an exception.  --MichaelTinkler.
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What makes you say it's badly written?
No, it's not from one source, it's from several years' worth of research and study, and I wrote it myself --corvus13
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"...leading to the general formula C10H16O": shouldn't this be "empirical formula"? Dweir
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Might want to separate the Amber (fantasy world) section from the Amber (fossilised resin) stuff.
Are we going to have entries for fictional countries such as Oz, Narnia, Middle-Earth, Lilliput, Brobdingnag, etc? Might have to decide on qualifier for the name "Amber" (eg. Amber (fictional country) ).  I'll leave it in the hands of a Wikipedia expert.
Michael Green - mfg@mfgreen.net
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The Baltic Amber is old resin from Pseudolarix amabilis.
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"Might want to separate the Amber (fantasy world) section from the Amber (fossilised resin) stuff."
What would the differences be? It would be make sense to make a separate section for any differences of note in fantasy,or perhaps a separate page altogether.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:8402:2D1F:85AC:9FCD:FAA:B61F (talk) 20:53, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: "Sap is the fluid that circulates through a plant's vascular system, while resin is the semi-solid amorphous organic substance secreted in pockets and canals through epithelial cells of the plant."
It seems to me that this is either not properly cited, or it is plagiarized...from here: .  (Second paragraph; second sentence.)
Plumberman032 (talk) 03:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not so sure - pus arises as a result of infection. Resin exists already, even if it does have this scar-covering function too. It's maybe more like platelets, but that's an analogy too far. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:47, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Quick Question

message: i read somewhere that archemedies or someone like that rubbed amber with fur and he noticed small objects started to stick to it and he "discovered" static electriicity. could someone verify that?Omgwt..bbq (talk) 02:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, should you wish to look him up, it's Archimedes.  The article on electricity says that the effect was known to ancient Mediterranean cultures.  It says that one Thales of Miletos studied it, but it doesn't actually say he discovered the effect.  That's the sort of thing that could easily be discovered by accident, a thousand times over, by anonymous individuals handling amber.  140.147.236.195 (talk) 20:20, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Electricity and amber

message: I actually think that it's reasonable to mention "Danzig" in this article, since there are many connections from historical Danzig to amber. E.g. the famous Amber Room, built in 1701, was created by ethnic German amber artisans from Danzig (as they presumably would have called it, and as Wikipedia policy calls for it to be named at that point in time). The entry for "Gedanite" may not the best place to mention it, though; perhaps the paragraph which mentions the amber room could mention that some of the amber workers came from "Danzig (now Gdansk)". Noel (talk) 19:35, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Royal Prussia was an integral part of Poland, and so the proper name is Gdansk not Danzig. Space Cadet 20:47, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: I (naively) assumed that Royal Prussia was the same thing as the Kingdom of Prussia. I have modified my comment (above) to take this into account. Noel (talk) 21:56, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Space Cadet: Gdansk is not the Polish name of the city, smartarse. Gdańsk is, and I doubt you can pronounce that. And given that Polish is not the indigenous language of the area, the Kashubian name, Gduńsk, would be the proper name by that standard. But since we do not call Warsaw Warszawa only because the region was an integral part of Poland, your reasoning makes no sense in the first place. People need to finally come to terms (again) with the concept of exonyms, dammit! --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:09, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Encyclopædia Britannica (11th ed.) says: "DANZIG, or DANTSIC (Polish _Gdansk_), a strong maritime fortress and seaport of Germany, capital of the province of West Prussia", by the way. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:15, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Gdansk/Danzig

message: I think the use of amber as a major plot point in Jurassic Park is notable and should be included in the article, although I don't know where. --Grouse 10:53, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jurassic Park 

message: what is the value of raw amber?
Value of rough amber is difficult to explain. First of all what is "amber"? You have to specify: Baltic amber, Dominican amber etc., in my opinion whenever just the word "amber" is used, it has to mean Baltic amber. This is the fossil resin humans used since 30000 years ago, the one that played such important role in shaping European civilisation. Only recently other fossil resins became more known and scientists for ease of communication started calling other fossil resins "amber"- dealers and public after "Jurassic Park" made this word common without caring for what it means.
Value? Well, Baltic amber obtained by excavation in Kalliningrad in its heyday, was 1000 tons a year. Only about 300 tons of it were jewellery quality. Today that mine produces mere 200 tons per year. So quality rough Baltic amber is scarce. Poland's jewellery industry uses about 200 tons of it every year. Sure Ukraine has deposits of Baltic amber that in recent years were began to be mined. But there is like, only one legal operation, the rest is gray market. This equals to supply in the tens of tons per year.
Dominican and Mexican amber, excavated by hand is a specialty item in global view. An output of aprox. 5 tons per year from each locality has no effect on jewellery market, but is important for its animal inclusions. Its red, green and blue varieties are highly sought after and pricey.
For Baltic amber, of course value depends on size of pieces. The larger the more rare and more expensive. I have held in my hands a 3 kilo piece- it looked just like a loaf of bread!
Market prices are often published in Bursztynisko, a magazine of International Amber Association.
Amberif, an amber and jewellery fair organised in Gdansk, Poland every March is a great place to sense the amber industry trends. There, two years ago the Russian rough amber dealers changed prices from US$ to Euro currency- same numbers, but a 30% jump in price! (this, if I remember it correctly without checking records. Also, any numbers quoted above- I have quotable sources for and can provide the details). ````  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuczman (talk • contribs) 03:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For quite a while it was $1 a gram.77.100.108.4 (talk) 16:42, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Value 

message: What is meant by sub-fossil at end of first paragraph? This must be a slang (i.e., non-scientific) term. SNP 22:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sub-fossil

message: The statement in the first paragraph: “Most of the world's amber is in the range of 30–90 million years old” is puzzling, and as far as I can tell is un-verifiable. Science does not know when plants first evolved the ability to produce biopolymers for defensive purposes, but for sure, they have not lost the ability; consequently, unless data disputes the obvious, there should be a greater amount of younger than older resinites in sediments. Does anyone know where this statement cam from? SNP 01:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your reference includes the statement "time and the environment influence the decaying speed" in reference to radiodating, which is utter nonsense. This reference is linked from the blue amber page, and thus appears to be commercial link spam. SNP 00:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just divide them by zero. SNP 00:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: age of most amber?

message: Is there a "outdated tag"?  The bulk of that page is from the 1911 EB.  Is all of that still true? -lysdexia 07:19, 15 May 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.108.161.118 (talk) 07:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  expert tag 

message: The sentence "Pieces of amber torn from the seafloor are cast up by the waves, and collected at ebb-tide." is clearly erroneous. I live by the Baltic Sea, and the tides are 10 cm, tops, and along most of the Baltic coast, this is not visible to the naked eye.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.231.89.46 (talk) 16:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Errata: tides in the Baltic 

message: "Most of the world's amber is in the range of 30–90 million years old. Semi-fossilized resin or sub-fossil amber is called copal. It can hold insects or even small mammals."
Woah, small mammals? Can anyone provide a source for that?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.199.20.98 (talk) 23:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation? 

message: I came to this article looking to find out how amber differs from fresh resin that has hardened recently.  The article says it is "fossilized," but it also says it is not "mineralized."  So I take it the original resin has not been replaced by other substances.  But the article does not give a clue beyond that.  Browsing various links and other articles, I've tentatively gathered that the substances that make up the resin, over time, become polymerized.  Is that correct?  Is that what goes into fossilization (in this case) to make amber different from hardened resin?  If so, I think someone who knows should put it in the article somehow.  140.147.236.195 (talk) 20:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What exactly constitutes "fossilized"? 

message: I'm thinking this article could use a section on amber in pop. culture. Jurassic Park is the obvious example, but the Golden Compass series features amber in connection with electricity ("anbar") as well as in The Amber Spyglass. 65.96.201.130 (talk) 02:09, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Popular Culture 

message: This section seems slightly random and overtly specific.  It could possibly be generalized to "Amber in Musical Instruments" or something of that sort.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.237.183 (talk) 01:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, I can't imagine why it's been included. I'm going to remove it along with the accompanying photo. Dbarefoot (talk) 02:16, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Photo restored, with less confusing caption. The linked reference has some things to say about the difficulty of shaping structural parts from amber. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 18:58, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Seriously, why is the "amber frog bow" given its own subsection under "Uses?" The linked reference doesn't seem to work, and I can't seem to find the referenced article anywhere using Google. I think the significance of the amber frog bow has been blown way out of proportion. VDanger (talk) 03:18, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Amber Frog Violin Bow" 

message: This reads like a faulty translation and at best, makes no sense.
" in the Polish language, despite still correct, it is used very rarely"
4.249.63.41 (talk) 21:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: . Thanks for pointing it out. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 18:38, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  translation? 

message: This is an interesting (if not well knit) article so far. But it leaves me with big questions. OK amber comes from trees; ok it has bugs in it, is used for this & that. But *how* does it get from A to D? Where in trees does it come from? What kinds of trees? Where are they? How long does that take for huge chunks? Where are they found (are they still found?) What happens to it then? How long does it take to harden? How does it trap a bug? Does it need to be buried to last 30 million years? Where can I find some? Twang (talk) 07:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something missing 

message: I reverted the addition of a new section on blue amber from Indonesia as it was unsupported by sources and I have been unable to find any - it read a bit like an advert. Mikenorton (talk) 09:47, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indonesian blue amber 

message: The reference for this section was non-working - found another link for the source (I think) a museum website/book. The site however failed WP:RS (self-pub'd and promotional). So I removed it and some content and added a citation needed tag. Vsmith (talk) 23:54, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historic medicinal uses 

message: (rvt: please look for images without severe color distortion (refraction) and with a more straightforward interpretation)
Are you really that clueless? Where have you been the last ten years?  John Elson (talk) 03:55, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm willing to explain my revert, but it might be a good idea you first contemplate that image and then formulate your question. Materialscientist (talk) 03:59, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I have not explained my revert well, that is absolutely right; I had no hard feeling about that and wish you have a second thought. (i) The article is already overloaded with images (their placement is screen-resolution dependent); (ii) anaglyph adds confusion in this case as many readers won't understand what it is and why it is necessary here, when depth contrast can be better seen in other, conventional photos; (iii) the caption says "amber containing debris but without recognizable conclusions. While not rare or valuable.. " - so the reader should wonder why is it included? In this case, the image could simply be replaced by its caption. Further ".. such pieces can be fascinating to view in stereoscopic detail." - this phrase does call for a fascinating image :-), which this one is not. Materialscientist (talk) 06:51, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

text: My point is that there are so many amber images around that it is possible to find a few conventional photos of a non-gem with all kinds of inclusions here, like this (surely, photographers like insects around :). Materialscientist (talk) 07:49, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: really?

message: Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that :File:Amber2.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on July 13, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-07-13. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! —howcheng  {chat} 17:16, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:File:Amber2.jpg]] to appear as POTD soon 

message: So if this word originates in Middle Persian,  and was brought to Europe by the Crusaders,   then what was Pytheas talking about in 330 BC ?
And who says the use of ambergris was "waning" around 1400 CE ?   There was surely a lot more whaling of sperm whales in the second half of the last millenium,  than the first half of the last millenium.Eregli bob (talk) 03:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistencies 

message: There is Greek wine, retsina, which has amber in it.121.127.198.87 (talk) 04:07, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  retsina 

message: The amber from the Amber Room was never found. It was most likely accidentally burned by the Soviet soldiers. There isn't enough evidence for that one way or another. The point is though that while the Amber Room was reconstructed, it was done so using old black and white photographs and using amber mined from the same region as the original. 71.119.62.232 (talk) 00:00, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Caption for the Amber Room picture is wrong

message: I suspect a confusion between Amber and Ambergris here. As far as I could tell from the rest of the internet, no actual Amber has been used in parfumes. I am not an expert on this part, so I won't edit it, but the text itself also speaks about Ambergris. At least it was rather confusing to me.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by VDhorses (talk • contribs) 07:01, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use in parfumes 

message: I've removed the section ==Classification of Baltic amber by the IAA== as it was a copy paste of copyrighted content from this website added five years ago by a now inactive user. If someone wishes they are welcome to rewrite the removed section with attribution to avoid the copyvio problem. Vsmith (talk) 01:11, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyvio removed 

message: Much of the section on processing is in a form of academic English that passed out of style a century ago.  It's basically 19th-century English, lifted whole from some book. The source should be acknowledged.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.187.154.106 (talk) 20:02, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Oldest amber with microfossils is as old as 220 Ma, from the Triassic of the Dolomites (Italy). Reference: "A microworld in Triassic amber" Nature 444, 835 (14 December 2006) | doi:10.1038/444835a; Received 18 August 2006; Accepted 4 October 2006; Published online 14 December 2006 - http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7121/abs/444835a.html
Furins (talk) 12:19, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oldest Amber 

message: Substituted at 14:12, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment