Talk:Mixed (United Kingdom ethnicity category)

message: I am removing the entire 'History' section from this article due to massive factual inaccuracies.  There was a substantial black population in Britain before the Empire Windrush, and therefore a mixed-race population (especially in cities such as Cardiff, Bristol and London).  It's claims also backed up with no sources whatsoever.  The use of the word 'Negro' in this day and age is also quite startling.  Indisciplined 18:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have citations for these "substantial black populations". I don't remember any, and I was there (London). The term "negro" was used in its scentific sense - the human race being divided into three major groupings: negroid, caucasian and mongoloid. (And several minor groupings as well of course.) A euphemism would be inappropriate in this context.  Markparker 13:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: Also, can we get an urgent citation for the claims being made in this section that ethnic minorities receive preferential treatment on training schemes.  As far as I'm aware, this is nonsense. Indisciplined 18:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See here: http://www.ofmdfmni.gov.uk/positive-action Markparker 13:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Classification and Legal Status

message: Many of the ethnicities were spelled wrong, like Phillipino and Nivisian.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.225.13 (talk) 21:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling Changes

message: In the UK, I have noticed the term `mixed race' has been used synonymously with the 'black' and 'white' mix and seldomly including Anglo-Indians or Eurasians. I am proposing Nasser Hussains image to be deleted. He would identify as fully Caucasoid. Cat Stevens (Greek/Swedish) identifies as mixed race on his own website. If I added his name to the list I am sure it would be deleted.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.52.112 (talk) 22:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Despite what Cat Stevens says, he is not mixed race, he is fully Caucasoid. Greeks and English are both white so really he is not mixed race, rather multiethnic. But seriously, just leave Nasser; I highly doubt any white British person is ready to include South Asians into their racial status, even though most South Asians are Caucasian in race.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.154.247 (talk) 14:07, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For one thing, the Mediterranean race is not a solid foundation. Hec, even the Welsh are considered a Mediterranean people. Just look at the Mediterranean race page. Nasser Hussain is not fully European, but Cat Stevens is, and that is the issue...Britons are more likely to accept a Greek as white than a Indian/Pakistani. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Renamed user tP3hPDgO5n (talk • contribs) 20:02, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The preamble to the article refers to the British census definition of mixed race. This specifically included people of mixed Asian/European origins. It is not exclusively reserved for people of mixed European/African descent. So all the mixed European/Asian people mentioned CLEARLY fall within the definition of the article.  Indisciplined (talk) 18:38, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is all fine, but census definition are usually based on what people identify themselves. Most white Britons I know would only consider a Southern European as `white' on a case by case basis depending on the individuals appearance. I have known many dark southern Europeans in the U.K. who have often experienced prejudice and been mistaken for South Asian or Middle Eastern (i.e. they've been called P**i!). They may be classed as `white' in the British Census but not always in society. Hence I have no objection to the offspring of a Mediteranean/Nordic identifying themselves as mixed race. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.187.202.216 (talk) 21:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's your opinion. This is an encyclopedia. We need facts. The census constitutes evidence that can be cited, so forms the factual basis of this article. Simple as that. Indisciplined (talk) 18:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No Its not my opinion, it's what experiences i've known. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.187.202.216 (talk) 08:43, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's your opinion. This is an encyclopedia. We need facts. Simple as that. Indisciplined (talk) 18:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You've just said that! You're becoming repeditive. Here are some facts then and they are referenced: http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.187.202.216 (talk) 00:43, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I think if Cat Steven's wants to identify himself as mixed race, then I have no objection. Southern Europeans are mixed race themselves so If Nasser Hussain and Gabrielle Anwar (Both fully Caucasoid Indo-Europeans who look whiter than Cat Stevens) should be classed as Mixed race, then Southern European mixes can. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.187.213.21 (talk) 11:53, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A neo-nazi website, eh?  We must thank our unsigned friend for finally outing himself. Of course, in the process, he has also discredited himself. Once again, we are dealing with facts, and you are not. Indisciplined (talk) 18:49, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Not 'Indisciplned's definitions', but (and if you'd like to read the beginning of the article yet again, as that's what we are talking about here, the Census 2001 Ethnic Codes) which form the official statistical definitions for the UK Census. Amongst the definitions for mixed race, you will find that there is scope for people to define themselves as mixed 'Asian' and 'Chinese' or 'other mixed' if they are from a less common combinationm like the one described above. So yes, a person half-Syrian and half-Korean would absolutely and emphatically be covered by the census definiton used in this article. Once again, you have no argument. This article is about the UK Census definition, as clearly stated in the opening pre-amble. Indisciplined (talk) 20:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the last time I checked the Welsh and Cornish was considered part of the "so called Mediterranean race." Remind me to identify someone who is half Welsh half English as worthy of being mixed race. Utter foolishness! People of southern European descent who are supposed to be "Mediterranean" like the Italians for example, also have very substantial Alpine and Dinaric elements as well, subgroups found from Britain to Germany to Russia, to Spain....cant you see the fallacy of the Mediterranean race debate? And considering that Italians, Spaniards, Frenchmen, Irish and the Englishmen are all one race, Caucasian, people of these combined ethnicities do not fill the bill of mixed race. People of south Asian heritage are predominantly Caucasian as well, but they have substantial Mongoloid traits as well! 24.36.207.146 (talk) 17:33, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the above posts again.  This article is based on the British census definitions PERIOD. It really is that simple. Indisciplined (talk) 21:20, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  USAGE OF TERM `Mixed-Race' 

message: Where is the American and Canada mix race wiki?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.161.109 (talk) 18:33, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's the American one, Multiracial American, not sure if there is a Canadian one. Indisciplined (talk) 21:20, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: British Mixed-Race

message: Please note that Caucasians mixed with Caucasians are not mixed race. Non-European Caucasians and European Caucasians are the same race. The borders of Europe do not define race, they define Europe. Izzedine (talk) 21:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is only organized in terms of the UK Census, not in racial/scientific/anthroplogical terms. The term "Caucasian" is not recognized by the UK Census, which only uses "White" to refer to people of European descent, while people of West Asian descent fall under "Other Asian" in the UK Census. In other words, a person of both European and West Asian descent would fall under mixed "White and Asian" in the UK Census. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 21:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That it offered "White and Asian" as an option under mixed is not to be taken that all Asians are non-white, persons of European and Iraqi descent such as myself, select category 19, "White Other", as we are not mixed race. Iraq is only a few hundred miles south of the Caucasus Mountains. It is untrue and offensive to conjecture that white people beyond the frontier of Europe, mixed with Europeans, are "mixed race". Members of my Iraqi family have blond hair, green eyes, and look like Northern Italians. People of the Near East are mostly light skinned Caucasians. Izzedine (talk) 00:24, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You may have chosen "White Other" when you filled out the Census, but the fact of the matter is that many other Iraqis chose "Other Asian" in the UK Census. Besides, the argument you are using here could equally be applied to fair-skinned Pakistanis, some of whom could also pass for Italians. If someone has a white parent and a fair-skinned Pakistani parent, they would fall under "British Mixed" without question. However, I think the problem here is with the title of this article. As far as I remember, the UK Census did not refer to "race", but rather mixed ethnicity. I think this article should be renamed to simply "British Mixed" or "Mixed British" to reflect this. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 03:55, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Caucasians

message: I think the article needs an explanation on why the UK registres its citizens on grounds of "race" (even if only for statistical reasons). I find it extremely odd since a) the concept of dividing individual human beings into races is highly controversial and b) I can't figure out any practical reason for this type of registration. Could anyone help?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.163.93.206 (talk) 10:22, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: People aren't "registered" by race. The Office for National Statistics does, however, collect data on what it terms ethnicity, by which it effectively means race. It might be interesting to discuss this, but it would be better at Classification of ethnicity in the United Kingdom than here. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:50, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Why?

message: I looked at the list of mixed raced people and can see that Bob Marley is not there. Just to say that he was English/Jamaican.
(TheGreenwalker (talk) 14:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but this article is about British people of mixed race, and Bob Marley wasn't a British resident or citizen so I don't think it's relevant. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:04, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bob Marley 

message: This article is barely an article and just a listing of people who are contentiously "alleged" to be Mixed-'race'. By looking at the disagreements and disputes on this discussion page I would like to comment on the following. Who is socially regarded as "white" in the UK? 
In this article by Liam Donaldson and Raj Bhopal, it states that in practice "white refers to people of European ancestry with fair complexions"  http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/reprint/88/9/1303?view=long&pmid=9736867 this is proven to be valid as the police IC codes categorise Mediterranean people (Dark European) as being a separate category from white see here:http://www.tilehurst.net/infopool/ic.html
By this logic,Yusuf Islam would CLEARLY fit the category of Mixed-Race (as he self-identifies on his website), but there are those who would refute it. As it is, the census is based on self identification and hence there is NOTHING preventing him doing so.
South Asians mixed with "whites" are classed as being Mixed-'race' despite being fully Caucasoid, Aryan, Indo-European and a significant portion belonging to the Mediterranean race yet there is no objection including them here. Socially South Asians are not classed as "white". Many Middle Easterners are Caucasoid, but they too are not considered "white" in the UK. There has been objections to their mixed offsprings with Europeans being listed in this article where the census would include them (Other Asian). 
I have backed my argument up with evidence, hence I think we can all agree that the listing of people and their images should be removed and just keep this a simple article with statistics to avoid dispute and controversy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.61.22 (talk) 01:19, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone forgot to sign their post. Ethnic Iranians (not just national Iranians) from Northern and Central Iran are Aryan/white and are classified as white. Northern Indians also have some Aryans that are not really mixed either - compared to similar mixtures of Eastern Europeans, Iranians, Greeks, heck most people in the world. Semitic people are Caucasian, but not Aryan, and not always white because of African ancestry in their blood. Many South Asians that aren't from the Northern part of India are mixed with Dravidians or an Australoid people, so they are classified as South Asian and not White. Iranians aren't really middle eastern. The term only refers to Iranians in the last half of this century really. They are mostly European and geographically Eurasian. Mediterraneans are Greeks, Spanish, French, Persian, Armenians etc. There are some Arabs who have mixed with Mediterranean peoples, but they are not fully Meditteranean; only some have mediterranean blood. Persians, like their German cousins, are Alpine, but Persians are also Mediterranean, some Nordic blood as well. Aryans originate from the Ukraine region or the Caucasian Steppes. Nordic Europeans - some, like the Irish have some mediterranean blood, and are not as Nordic as Scandinavians. Iranians are an Indo-European Aryan people, and many Europeans, like the Nordic ones, are a mix of Aryans and proto-Europeans (the native Europeans). --CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 12:24, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Uh, there is no Dravidian mix among ethnic Iranians. Sure, there is some Mongol blood, like there is among Eastern and some Southern Europeans - even among other Europeans, but most of that blood is confined to the far east of Iran. My family is of Haplogroup HV2 (Seven Daughters of Eve)  -  a mix of old European and Mediterranean - the same for Macedonians, Anatolians, Austrians, Greeks, etc. You don't know what you're talking about 58.169.40.62. While 51% of Iran are ethnic Iranians - many Indo-European-white Iranians have fled to North America and Europe. Try not judging by the mostly semitic mullas and Arab Iranians living the far west of Iran - they are not ethnic Iranians. And Northern Indians - many are Aryan and not all are mixed with Dravidian. You are very misinformed. Dravidians are Australoid and are mixed with other Indians, and some Pakistanis. In Afghanistan, there are many Iranian descent people living there that are Aryan, others are Mongolian. There is no Dravidian type in Iran. What on earth? If ethnic Iranians aren't white, then neither are their cousins the Greeks, Armenians, Italians (the non Phoenician ones), or Russians. Apparently only pure Nordics are white. That is just plain wrong. You do know that for the longest time even the Irish weren't considered WHITE by Anglo-Saxon standards, which is ridiculous. You don't have scientific evidence but original research. Even the Turk-Iranians are only culturally Turkish, and have the same DNA as ethnic Iranians. Northern and Central Iran have Aryan Iranians. The deep southern region have descendants of slaves, the west have Iraqi's who have moved into Iran, and the far east have Mongolians. Almost everyone around the world is somewhat mixed. Most Iranians are at least 88% or more Indo-European, with some Mongol diluted blood thrown in here and there. Like in my family, they have high bridged noses, some Nordic looking, some Greco-Roman. Some of our people have a greater Nordic mix, most are Alpine-Mediterranean. My family has anything from medium thick to thick hair that is straight, wavy, slightly curly, to curly (Nicole Kidman) - but not kinky curls - fine, medium to thick and coarse but not as coarse as Asian hair. Our family hair colors range from dark blonde (though a few were white blonde as children) to auburn or orange-red hair, chestnut or dark brown hair, to almost black or jet-black. Eye colors range from light blue to green or grey, hazel, and medium brown - and a whole range of other light eye mixes. Palest white to pale gold, light olive or medium tan like most French or other mediterranean people. I'd advise you to study anthropology and genetics and do some real research. You obviously can't grasp the concept of Iran having different ethnicities in it's country. CNN tend to only show the Iranians who are on the border of Iran and Iraq or the mulla supporters, who coincidentally tend to also be the more non-Iranian ethnic type. Even when a few get almost brown from too much sun (though most only get an olive color), go see how pale the same Iranians are in the winter. Moreover, I have family who live in the U.K. and they have always been classified as WHITE. That's what is written on British paperwork. According to the German people, Iranians are their "brothers". Celts, Slavs, and Greeks are also our cousins.--CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 05:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propose deletion of Images and name listing. 

message: Thats been deleted as it shouldnt be included in the article especially such a short one  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.154.216 (talk) 22:20, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "torqouise" 

message: There are certain areas and pockets of britain where the people right away become dark haired, dark eyed and olive skin as opposed to the nordic stock of most british people. These include areas such as wales, look up mediterranean race. Infact, Greek cypriots in britain are mediterranean and have been mistakened as Pakistanis or British asians. Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClgGgKKF1Ik  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.173.174.134 (talk) 03:31, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: British people and European immigrants of Mediterranean complexion 

message: The 2011 census  suggests the fastest growing ethnic minority group in numerical terms was "Other White" (i.e. not British/Irish/Gypsy) and in proportionate terms "Other Asian" (not Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Chinese/Arab), "Other Black" (not African/Caribbean) and "Black African". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumping (talk • contribs) 08:11, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed not, but it grew faster than all the mixed groups added together.   --Rumping (talk) 23:31, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fastest growing ethnic minority group 

message: Well, In the article, It defines mixed people of "British citizens or residents whose parents are of two or more different races or ethnic backgrounds", so, I wonder what ethnicity is for the persons born to a white mother and a mixed father(means three-quarter white and one-quarter other)in the UK census,What would these people consider Their ethnicity are in the census?White or mixed;another thing puzzled me is that we all know Asian British usually refers specifically to people of South Asian ancestry(see Asian British https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Asian)such as Iraqi and Iranians are not Included in it,so the persons mixed with west Asian/Near-east and white british would be count as what?For example:Andy Serkis What would him filled himself in the census,White british or mixed?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.172.9.118 (talk) 07:43, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: As you seem to be aware, the UK census and other surveys rely on self-classification, so it all depends on how the person concerned sees themself (see the explanation here). The census is also confidential, so we could only know how Andy Serkis answered the ethnicity question by asking him. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:08, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The persons mixed with white British and other 

message: I came here looking for clarification on the issue, as many British mixed people are classified using US systems. This is wrong, American-centric and there should be efforts to correct this across wikipedia. These are British people, so British customs should be used. For example, right now Corinne Bailey Rae is listed as black, but on what grounds? There is no evidence to suggest she identifies that way, nor is she. But this is the US system in action. MarshallMolasses (talk) 09:57, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The only place I see her listed as 'black' is on the Black_British_singers category.  I suggest you take your concerns about this up on that category's talk page. She shouldn't be in it unless there is some evidence she identifies as a Black British Singer. But it doesn't concern this article.  --Escape Orbit (Talk) 16:49, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page needs to be improved, and a standard applied to British people on wikipedia. 

message: This is incorrect so I removed it. The source was an article from 2009 predicting that by 2020 multiethnic would be the fastest growing ethnicity. This does not mean it 'is' predicted to be the fastest growing. There isnt even a census in 2020.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dalta (talk • contribs) 14:06, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Fastest growing ethnicity" 

message: , can I ask where the figure of 60,899 came from in this edit? I can't find it in the source you cited. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: https://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/search-the-census#/search-by Please click 'Search data by location', then 'All of Scotland', then 'Ethnic group, national identity, language and religion' and finally 'Ethnic Group'. A table will be generated with figures, apologies I thought that my source included this. Kioj156 (talk) 12:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Would you be able to replace the reference here and anywhere else you've used it with that link? It's a shame that there doesn't seem to be a permalink to the actual table, but perhaps you could include its name as the title field in the citation to help readers locate it from the link. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scotland 2022 census figure