Talk:Hollywood Canteen

message: :Image:HollywoodCanteenprogram.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:HollywoodCanteenprogram.gif

message: :Image:HollywoodCanteenposter.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 23:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:HollywoodCanteenposter.jpg

message: Currently, there is a debate regarding the topic of Davis and Garfield being the alleged "co-founders" of the Canteen. However, I have found this to be a modern-day internet myth. It seems this myth may have came directly from Davis herself during her later years when she was prone to exaggerations. In researching articles on the Canteen from 1942-1943, I have discovered the Canteen was founded and established by a committee (the Hollywood Victory Committee to be exact). Davis was a member of the committee, however, she was, by no means the only member, and according to a  September 27, 1942 newspaper article, the Victory Committed was head by actress Irene Dunne. It is verified that Davis served as the Canteen's honorary president after it opened, however, it was a committee effort to found and establish the Canteen. It was not established merely by Davis and Garfield. To say that it was is inaccurate and grossly misleading to the historical accuracy and integrity of this article. 
Source for the Hollywood Victory Committee being the committee who established the Canteen: https://www.genealogybank.com/doc/newspapers/image/v2%3A14CF7881E9584F83%40GB3NEWS-16D9E1751F1DD194%402430630-16D39CB12DF94F01%4030-16D39CB12DF94F01%40?h=14&fname=joan&lname=crawford&fullname=&exsrch=1&kwinc=%22hollywood%20canteen%22&kwexc=bette&show_kwexc=1&sort=old&rgfromDate=1942&rgtoDate=1944&formDate=&formDateFlex=exact&dateType=range&processingtime=&addedFrom=&addedTo=&sid=qwohmeirtcntpmhcojogzqrxuipmsehi_wma-gateway012_1691352706912 MonicaAng (talk) 21:12, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Reopening this discussion from August - on 10/29/23 I added over 10 additional members of the Hollywood Victory Committee who formed the Hollywood Canteen to this article, WITH SOURCES for each addition, and that was completely (wrongly) removed. These are CITED sources from newspapers such at the Chicago Sun, The San Antonio Light and others. Bette Davis and John Garfield were NOT the "founders" of the Hollywood Canteen. It was formed by an entire committee effort as proven in the 1942 - 1943 newspaper articles I posted as sources. MonicaAng (talk) 19:13, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Cannot read your sources. They just lead to "GenealogyBank.com". --Cinemaniac86Dane_Cook_Hater_Extraordinaire 19:34, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It leads to GenealogyBank's newspaper section (like MANY citations on Wikipedia do). ALL of my sources come from legitimate 1942-1943 newspapers. MonicaAng (talk) 19:40, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. They all lead to a requirement to login with name, e-mail, and password. Then it demands you enter a credit card information for 7-day free trial before accessing the website. --Cinemaniac86Dane_Cook_Hater_Extraordinaire 19:42, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ironically, the Wikipedia article on the Hollywood Victory Committee cite many of the SAME people I cited in my addition. That article has many sources on it, too. Proof enough? MonicaAng (talk) 19:43, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If you don't have the ability to pay to read the news articles, that's unfortunate, but I do not consider that a valid reason to stifle that very relevant (and legitimate) information from this article. Especially considering Wikipedia is crammed full of citations from newspaper websites that have a pay wall. MonicaAng (talk) 19:45, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It's suspicious that these alleged sources happen to be the only ones that exist which refute the otherwise well-founded knowledge that Bette Davis and John Garfield were the co-founders; Davis was president throughout the ENTIRE war as of its establishment in 1942; and Davis used her clout to help the place become integrated. All of these facts, by every source thus far, are in sync with on another, out on the open web. If these are indeed untrue an inaccurate, well then let's actually see the proof that they aren't. Otherwise, it's unreliable information if everything else contradicts it. --Cinemaniac86Dane_Cook_Hater_Extraordinaire 19:56, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Additional vintage (non-modern-day unsourced-blog) info on the Hollywood Victory Committee and all they did (from NON-pay wall website): https://archive.org/details/Screenland-1944-03-Vol-48-No-5/page/n23/mode/2up?q=%22hollywood+victory+committee%22+canteen MonicaAng (talk) 20:28, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: No, Canteen isn't mentioned anywhere in that article. --Cinemaniac86Dane_Cook_Hater_Extraordinaire 19:51, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it's a known fact that the Canteen was formed by the Hollywood Victory Committee by anyone who is a researcher of classic Hollywood, even the Hollywood Canteen Wikipedia article itself stated it was formed by the Hollywood Victory Committee prior to my addition. If you are choosing to ignore these facts, it is not I who has the "narrative" here. It is not a "well-known fact" that Davis and Garfield were the "founders." That has become a repeated modern day LIE on the internet over the past few years. Your statement of "Davis used her clout to help the place become integrated" is also false. Davis is NOT who decided that the Canteen would be integrated - it was the Hollywood Victory Committee. This very issue was also covered on a discussion on this topic months ago, with links to 1942 articles proving this information. You are citing modern day internet blogs (that never have any sources to support their information) - whereas, I have cited (sourced) vintage news articles from the actual time period of 1942-1943. Which do you think is accurate? Again, if you, personally, do not have the ability to read these legitimate newspaper articles from 1942-1943, that is not a valid reason to stifle this information from the article. I again echo my statement that Wikipedia articles are stuffed full of news articles that are sourced from websites with pay walls. Perhaps you can ask a friend to lend you a credit card so that you can read them. MonicaAng (talk) 20:06, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bette Davis and John Garfield - Co-founders? 

message: I don't quite understand the arguments above, but literally every source, scholastic or not, mentions Davis and Garfield as the founders of the Hollywood Canteen. How come this info is removed from the lead?
Just looking through the sources, here are most random examples (specifically old ones, not so-called internet myth or other speculations):
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And there are plenty more. Eventually, I propose the following addition to the article's lead:
:"The Hollywood Canteen, founded in 1942 by Bette Davis, John Garfield and (with the financial help of) Jules Stein, operated..."
From what I gather - Cinemaniac86, User:Schazjmd - you all agree, based on sources, that this is the right piece of information. Based on the article's contributions history, another user (Nlb2023) and many others thought so. Why then isn't it here? I give my support, and therefore, there is consensus to reinsert it right away (even if there's a single user who opposes it). In many ways, I demand that it be restored. Shahid • Talk2me 21:31, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Cinemaniac86; User:Schazjmd: I'm trying again as there hasn't been any reply. Shahid • Talk2me 09:12, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi @Shshshsh. I took this article back off my watchlist when it appeared that Cinemaniac86 and MonicaAng had reached an agreement on wording. I'm fine with it if you want to add that to the lead. Schazjmd (talk) 13:25, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mention of founders in lead