Talk:Maria al-Qibtiyya

message: Regarding the Arabic name tag above, Maria was probably not an Arab. Nor is Maria really an Arabic name. "al-Qibtiyya" just means "the Copt" in Arabic, and was not part of her actual name (it was just something that later Muslim chroniclers would refer to her by). --Zeno of Elea 03:06, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Arabic name tag

message: Further, i fail to see why both versions are dealt in the biography of Maria. I sugest that each version gets its own article, then both Aisha, Hafsa, Maria and anyone else involved can gets links to it. 
--Striver 07:55, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Both versions are dealt with here for a very logical reason, specifically because the first story is all about Maria, and the second story is an alternative one that contends with the content of this article. This article is short enough to address both stories, and a more detailed version of the second story can be found in Aisha (where it belongs). There is no need to break the articles into a bunch of tiny stubs. --Zeno of Elea 00:16, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diffrent articles 

message: Striver is contesting documented facts that I have thoroughly sourced. He is not bothering to check the published sources, instead he is just expressing his "doubt" that I have accurately reported what  the published sources say. My sources are verifiable, you can go to the library, check out the books, and read them yourself. Striver's main argument for putting this "TotallyDisputed" tag is that he has never read the published sources but still "doubts" that this is what they say - clearly this is not a legitimate reason for disputing the factual accuracy of the article. --Zeno of Elea 00:16, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, i guess its your "thoroughly sourced" "published sources" that say Muhamad (as) had only one son and that he threatened with war... --Striver 07:14, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Only son? 

message: Starting the "Muqawqis" article to elaborate on issues not directly relevant to Maria. --Striver 08:18, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muqawqis 

message: Zeno, I don't know why you're holding onto the Lings quote like grim death, other than to be obstructive. We have from the letter, and from al-Tabari, either two to four slaves, a eununch, riding animals, and some clothing. It's the "measures of gold" that's unsupported. I don't know when it entered the tradition, but all you've given for it is contemporary citations. I don't know how much a "measure" is, but if it's a lot, it seems unlikely as a placatory gift. You're insisting that I trust Lings, and I'm not sure why I should, if that particular bit isn't supported by cites. 
I'll try a rewrite later -- I've got RL stuff to do that's been languishing for days. Zora 23:36, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt that a "thousand measures" means anything more than 2 or 3 ounces of gold, which can easily be carried. The gold would be easier to carry than the cloathes, actually. We're not talking about transporting Fort Knox here. I think that we should just put the description of the convoy in quotes and attribute it to Lings. Why should we keep this description? Because it is the most detailed account that we have yet to come across. I don't see why we should NOT trust Lings. Look at any modern  hagiography of Muhammad. Do you think that every little fact that the author states is going to be footnoted? Not in my experience. Are you famaliar with SOAS at the University of London, Zora? --Zeno of Elea 23:44, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The caravan 

message: Having bought and read Lings, I can unhesitatingly reject it as a historical source. It is a mishmash of pious myths. The Rodinson, however, is a solid book. I've rewritten the article based mainly on Tabari. We should probably also have links to various hadith related to this matter -- I'm just a little too tired to look them up right now. 
The older version of the article was highly salacious, of the "unbounded sexual licence in the harem" Orientalist variety. I'm usually against dismissing Western academics as "Orientalist", but I must admit that there's a a whole strain of "harem literature" that says more about Western imaginations than Eastern facts. Skewered by Fadwa El Guindi in Veil: Modesty, Privacy, and Resistance, Berg, 1999. Book is often PC and PoMo, but usually interesting. Zora 23:46, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major revision by Zora 

message: The following text was added to the Maria article 06:44, 2 June 2006 by User:212.138.64.172:
::Maria the Copt was one of the wives of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) of Islam. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) married 12 wives in his life. When he died he had 9 wives. They have a very special status in the hearts of Muslims as the “Mothers of the Believers,” as the Qur’an instructs, and they are the source of a great amount of wisdom which they learned while living close to such a great man. Perhaps you’d like to research a bit to find their beautiful stories, so here are their names: Khadijah bint Khuwaylid, Sawdah bint Zam’ah, `A’ishah bint Abi Bakr, Hafsah bint `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, Zaynab bint Khuzaymah, Umm Salama, Zaynab bint Jahsh, Juwayriah bint Al-Harith, Umm Habibah, Safiyah bint Huyay ibn Akhtab, Maymunah bint Al-Harith, Maria the Copt.
::Slavery already existed long before Islam. It was a system whereby a human captured in wars or kidnapped could be sold as a “possession.” That term applied to both sexes, not to women only. In some cultures slaves were considered subhuman and treated brutally. In Europe, for example, Romans threw Christian slaves to the lions while the public cheered; female slaves were thought to have no souls and were tortured mercilessly; slaves lived in degrading conditions; both sexes were forced to offer sexual favors to their masters; and as “possessions” they had no choice, no will, and no rights. 
::Islam recognized the human rights of slaves and encouraged Muslims to set slaves free. Islam prohibited adultery and homosexuality, and prevented forcing female slaves into sexual acts against their will. Islam encouraged educating them, setting them free, then legally marrying them and giving them their moral and financial rights. The reward for this—as mentioned in Prophetic Hadith—is eternal residence in Paradise. 
::Maria (may Allah be pleased with her) was not a concubine; she was a slave owned by Egypt’s Christian governor, who offered her and her sister Serine—among other presents—as a “gift of good will” to the Prophet in reply to his envoys inviting him to Islam. On her way from Egypt to Madinah, she was curious to learn about “her new master” and listened to his Companions talk about him. As a result, she became Muslim before meeting Muhammad.
I have moved it here in case there is anything useful in it that can be added here. --AbsolutDan (talk) 12:57, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  move from Maria article 

message: What? Can someone do something about the language used? Faro0485 (talk) 20:47, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maria the Copt, (died 637) was a Coptic Christian sex slave  

message: In Concubine Status section, Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr was quoted:
"Mariyah died during the caliphate of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, in Muharram of 16 AH. ‘Umar gathered the people himself to attend her funeral, and he led the funeral prayer for her. She was buried in al-Baqee’."
I don't see how does this text relate to the title of the sub-section? Modi mode (talk) 16:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concubine Status 

message: There are two accounts of Maria on this page one of Martin Ling and other of At-Tabari. I tried to write years of accounts which can improve article but one fellow has reverted. Assuming good faith please explain.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smatrah (talk • contribs) 14:09, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Martin Lings]](1909-2005 CE)’s view and [[At-Tabari]](839-923 CE)view 

message: add it. Ghjiygffdd (talk) 11:14, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The following historical reports tell us that Prophet Muhammed (p) married Mariyah:    “It is reported from ‘Abdullah al-Zubairi who said: that after this the Noble Prophet married (tazawwaju) Mariah daughter of Sham’un. This is the same Mariyah who was sent by Maqauqis, the ruler of Alexandria to the Prophet as a gift” (Sahih al-Mustadarak Hakim [Published Hyderabad, Deccan], volume 4, page 36). 

message: Add Ghjiygffdd (talk) 11:15, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tabari (838 – 923 AD):     “God granted Rayhanah bt. Zayd of the Banu Qurayzah to his Messenger. Mariyah the Copt was presented to the Messenger of God, given to him by al-Muqawqis, the ruler of Alexandria, and she gave birth to the Messenger of God’s son Ibrahim. THESE WERE THE MESSENGER OF GOD’S WIVES, six of them were from the Quraysh.” (Tabari volume 9, page 137)