Template talk:Cite paper

message: This template seems tuned to books, not journal articles. A journal article has a title/author/year, but also a journal title and volume/issue/page# info. If I stuff it all into the title field, then italics and other styling info makes a mess of it. Am I using the wrong template (is "cite paper" something of a misnomer)? DMacks 22:41, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait, I don't think this is necessarily for books. I interpret it as being for standalone papers (example PDF). Λυδαcιτγ 23:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's correct. What I don't understand, is that p.#/pp.#-# aren't in the template. :s -Ghent 22:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Since not every thesis is published, can a field be included for the school and department which granted the dissertation? I am not so tricky with css to make the changes myself. Intangible 03:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Citing a paper, not a book

message: To reinforce Ghent's point above, this template sorely needs a parameter to cite specific pages. (I'd favor the  single "pages" parameter that requires inclusion of the "p." or other text, which is more flexible than the cumbersome "page"/"pages" method.) Citations are supposed to be specific, so that editors can verify that the source actually supports the article text. It is unreasonable to expect people to read an entire paper just to find a quote or check a specific fact. If the citation is general, one can always leave out the pages parameter. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just do it. You could whip-up the new template code under your user space and if there are no objections save it on the template. Conformance with cite book is good. Don't add "p." or "pp." whatever to the template. This should be on the call side for flexibility. See also Template_talk:Cite_web#Pages_parameter. --Ligulem 15:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: i don't know what the disposition of this long past request, but i'd like to resurrect the request. referencing a multi-paged document without a specific page or page-range is not really very useful. --emerson7 19:44, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. The documentation needs to be updated. Cheers. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:44, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need "pages" parameter 

message: I get the impression from the "Citing a paper, not a book" discussion above that we are assuming this template will be used only for school papers by single authors, up to and including theses. However, there are many kinds of papers used as reliable source material in Wikipedia that are neither academic papers nor are published in books or journals. Here's an example, currently used for Bullshit! and possibly other articles talking about the scientific evidence for global warming:
 * 
which currently results in:
* 
I see at least three problems with using the current  for this source:
# There are no provisions made for multiple authors.
# There is no "pages" parameter or equivalent, which prevents the display of a specific location for the source data (see "Need "pages" parameter" above).
# The title is both quoted and italicized, which is not following Wikipedia's style guidelines. Short print works (short stories, articles, etc.) are quoted; long ones (books, plays, etc.) are italicized — never both. (I'm not sure where papers fall, but I suspect they are quoted, even when they are long.)
I tried to find a different template that could be used in a pinch, but the closest I found were  and , both of which assume the cited work is contained with a larger work whose title must be included. The only real solution is to make a template for "papers" cover not only academic but also scientific, business, governmental, and other individually published papers.
I'd appreciate it if someone could address these problems, so that specific sources, like the one above, will display properly and fully. Thank you. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 15:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't comment much on what cite paper is supposed to be used for. It was made by Bookofjude. I Haven't seen him much around here anymore (last contrib was on July 27 2006). Why don't you whip-up a proposal for new code of the template? --Ligulem 15:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need to broaden beyond academic papers 

message: Could a version without the paragraphs be added? Here is what I mean: 
 
I do not know how to add it with this type of template without messing things up. I hate it when people put the extended versions of the citation templates in articles because they are so unwieldy (although the other versions are too when they are filled out). Thanks, Kjkolb 05:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I (think I) just added what you wanted, without messing up anything else (I think). DMacks 05:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other version 

message: Would it be possible to add a field like "id =" in Cite book or Cite Cite journal? While many theses and other papers are not published with ISBN, they may have other standard identifiers, such as an  number. older ≠ wiser 14:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been trying to get these fields separated, actually.  Like  has separate fields for isbn=, oclc=, etc. — Omegatron 03:03, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  "id=" has been added.  I don't mind if other identifiers are also added, but id is useful for references that don't fit those situations.  I've been using "id=", together with  to link to abstracts on the National Criminal Justice Reference Service. Doing it this way allows us to look at Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:NCJ and see which articles are referencing scholarly criminal justice literature. --Aude (talk) 14:42, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Place for identifier 

message: While the accessdate is linked, the date isn't. Is there any specific reason for this? Logically, both dates should be linked.Beagel 05:24, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Linking date

message: For improved consistency with current usage in template:cite news and template:cite web, how about removing italics around title and adding them to version? Also changing the full stops to commas? --HailFire 18:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of italics and commas

message: Hi, this template should have new fields for specifying the specific section of the paper and the quoted text, like other citation templates. Namely, the fields section, sectionurl, and quote, analogous to the fields chapter, chapterurl and quote of template . Thanks! —surueña 20:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Second this motion. It needs coauthors= and quote= fields like other cite templates. Dhaluza (talk) 00:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll look at this tomorrow or Friday.  Don't want to make a mistake on something widely used on so many pages. So, I will need to try these changes on a "sandbox" page to make sure it all works okay. --Aude (talk) 02:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Editprotected request  - please put the tag back up when you are satisfied with the suggested changes. Neil ☎ 12:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand this comment. This still needs to be done. Dhaluza (talk) 05:59, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Still looking for the 'quote=' field to be implemented like most similar templates.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhaluza (talk • contribs) 16:19, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Added the quote param, the documentation has already been changed. — Carl (CBM · talk) 01:51, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section, quote, and documentation 

message: Would an administrator please make the following changes to implement the newer  template:
Replace
{{#if: 
with
{{#if: 
and




with


RossPatterson (talk) 01:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: done. Od Mishehu עוד מישהו 07:43, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Doc upgrade

message: Would an administrator please make the following change to improve the error message for a missing title and to add articles with missing title parameters to :Category:Articles with broken citations.  This is consistent with the current behavior of  and .
Replace:
|Error on call to Template:cite paper: Parameter title must be specified
with
|You must specify title =  when using {{cite paper}}. 
 
RossPatterson (talk) 01:42, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: .—Random832 17:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add error category 

message: the symbol for a PDF file is not shown in the citation when the format=PDF is chosen.  The symbol is shown for other templates such as cite web and cite journal.--Ccson (talk) 13:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The PDF icon is an automatic effect of the Wikipedia environment, not an effect of the template.  Can you point to an example that isn't working as you expect?  RossPatterson (talk) 01:16, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See Millennium Challenge Account, footnote 32, author=Dawson, Horace when the url does not show a PDF symbol when using cite paper.  See Extraordinary rendition by the United States, footnote 116, when the same url provides the symbol when using cite web.--Ccson (talk) 05:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Both of those references show PDF icons right now. RossPatterson (talk) 01:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps it's my browser because it's as I described above.  I see "(PDF)" for both references but only the second one has the familiar Adobe triangle symbol.--Ccson (talk) 05:19, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I use Opera and the Monobook WP skin, and the Adobe Acrobat icon is clearly present between 'Policy Council' and '" (PDF)'.  It works in some browsers and not in others - search WP for "acrobat icon pdf mediawiki" and read the threads if you want to see the history.  RossPatterson (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Also, can you review the "Multiple authors" section above for a continuing problem where I have listed the test case when the template does not list multiple authors?--Ccson (talk) 05:31, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done and fixed as noted above. RossPatterson (talk) 23:00, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: PDF symbol

message: this template lacks a language field. the statement below should be all that's required.
}}{{ 
  #if:  |  ()
--emerson7 16:11, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Where would it go? The code you suggested wouldn't match the formatting of . I don't disagree with the idea at all, but I think a complete implementation needs to be written first, so people can comment on it. And I think it needs to match the other cite * templates. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:58, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: sorry...bad formatting. i've made the necessary corrections. with regard to location, it should follow established conventions, in this case i suppose after the publisher field. --emerson7 16:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: cite book uses  before the publisher field. Does some other citation template put the language after the publisher?  — Carl (CBM · talk) 16:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: hmmm...there does seem to be some inconsistencies throughout the wiki-templates. the  series places language 'after' publisher, and displays the language without the 'in'.  i really don't have a preference, so as stated earlier, it should follow the applicable established conventions. --emerson7 19:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  language field 

message: Theses are typically very long documents. A "pages" parameter in this template would be useful. Kariteh (talk) 15:58, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. The documentation needs to be updated. Cheers. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:44, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still needs a "pages" parameter 

message: The pages parameter needs to be updated to have a '.' and space after it.  The page parameter currently runs on into the publisher parameter.  See Template_talk:Cite_paper#Need to broaden beyond academic papers section for an example of this.  The example currently shows "p. 5Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."  Note that the '5' is part of "Intergovernmental".  This could be done by adding a period and space (.  (. ampersand pound 32 ;)) at the end of the pages section before the start of the publisher section. --Littleman_TAMU (talk) 18:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done the problem was actually that the  parameter had its full stop and space after it, while all the other parameters had the punctuation before.  Happy‑melon 18:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "pages" parameter needs updating 

message: Please contribute to this discussion at Citing sources:
Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#Retrieval dates for online versions of old printed sources, again --EnOreg (talk) 16:16, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be better if it were just hidden from display with css.  Readers should still be able to access it. — Omegatron (talk) 17:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree; I've wrapped the "retrieved on..." in a CSS class (reference-accessdate), so it can be hidden either in personal or sitewide css.  I will do the same for the other templates with this editprotected request.  Happy‑melon 17:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retrieval dates for online versions of old printed sources, again 

message: In the examples on the main page for cite paper, the help says the date field should be an unlinked ISO 8601 date (I've checked and this works correctly), yet the examples of the template use 'date=1968' etc. Clearly, this is misleading. Could the examples be updated to use a correctly-formatted date? Thanks Rjwilmsi 23:55, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The format date tag in the example doesn't match the description of what's required 

message: I don't see it in the docs, does this template support "archiveurl" and "archivedate" to update inactive links? Perhaps I'm totally misinterpreting "archive", but compare to . The citation instance I've hacked in an archive link for is at . Thanks! Franamax (talk) 01:09, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive support 

message: ===Cite web option for editor-set date styles===
See Template talk:Cite web#Working version and final discussion re proposed new parameter of datestyle. As a default it leaves date/accessdate/archive date as wikified dates as is the current case. However if specified it would show unlinked but formated dates as "=dmy" 23 October 2007  as "=mdy" October 23, 2007 or as "=ymd" 2007 October 23. Given ideally cite templates should be consistant, should such a proposal be implemented here too ? Please discuss at the above link. David Ruben  Talk  19:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Cite template standardisation

message: See Template talk:Cite web#Working version and final discussion re proposed new parameter of datestyle. As a default it leaves date/accessdate/archive date as wikified dates as is the current case. However if specified it would show unlinked but formated dates as "=dmy" 23 October 2007  as "=mdy" October 23, 2007 or as "=ymd" 2007 October 23. Given ideally cite templates should be consistant, should such a proposal be implemented here too ? Please discuss at the above link. David Ruben  Talk  19:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Cite web option for editor-set date styles

message: I think it would be more intuitive to add in an actual doi=parameter like  instead of being forced to use id=|.  The code seems to be able to be copied directly from  placed right after the id section.  Without this change the User:DOI bot will have to be fixed as it replaced the kludgy id format with doi= expecting it to work.  See  for a "bad" edit.

{{#if:{{{doi|}}} 
  |. [[Digital object identifier|doi]]:{{#if: {{{doi_brokendate|}}} 
     | {{#tag:nowiki|{{{doi}}}}} (inactive [[{{{doi_brokendate|}}}]]) {{#ifeq: {{NAMESPACE}} | {{ns:0}} | [[Category:Pages with DOIs broken since {{#time: Y | {{{doi_brokendate|}}} }}]] }}
     | <span class="neverexpand">{{#tag:nowiki|{{{doi}}}}}</span>
    }}
}}

-- KelleyCook (talk) 16:29, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done, you should be able to run DOI bot again.  Cheers.  lifebaka (talk - contribs) 17:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Worked like a charm, thanks for the quick response. -- KelleyCook (talk) 17:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add in doi parameter 

message: Can you add :ca:Plantilla:Cite paper?--KRLS (talk) 15:33, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: --Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:20, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add 

message: If I use this template without specifying an author, there is an extra dot at the begining (presumably after the empty author field). Can someone correct this? Svick (talk) 22:52, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dot before title when no author is specified 

message: In Marc lachance, I tried using this template to cite a doctoral dissertation.
 displayed as:
:Davidson, Michael McKenney (August 2005). "An Annotated Database of 102 Selected Published Works for Trombone Requiring Multiphonics" (PDF). D.M.A. dissertation. 8 University of Cincinnati. Retrieved on November 4, 2008. 
This looks unusual particularly in the formatting of the page and institution as "8 University of Cincinnati". Does anyone have suggestions as to how this could be reformatted? Furthermore, is this template really intended for citation of academic theses and dissertations in the first place? If so, the documentation should reflect that better. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:15, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're supposed to use something like .  See #Still needs a "pages" parameter above and Template:Cite paper/doc. RossPatterson (talk) 00:52, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Odd formatting

message: Will someone be unlinking accessdate on this cite paper template, like the other cite templates? See Template_talk:Cite_web#Please_delink_accessdate. ++ MortimerCat (talk) 20:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I also support this change. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Ruslik (talk) 19:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unlinking dates 

message: --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) (talk) 07:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I, non-admin, added it to Template:Cite paper/doc subpage. --fryed-peach (talk) 14:04, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Add <Nowiki>[[Zh:Template:Cite paper]]</Nowiki>

message: For annual or monthly reports, please can someone create "year" and "month" fields as an alternative to the "date" field? --Adoniscik(t, c) 16:26, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  year/month vs. date 

message: This issue has been raised a few times before but I couldn't see an answer anywhere (apologies if I missed something). Per a question raised at a FAC page, this template assigns both italics and quotes to the titles automatically. As with songs and album names, or short stories and novels, normally you'd either use quote marks (for short works) or italics (for longer ones) but not both. What was the rationale for applying both here? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:09, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking forward to an answer to this question (which I raised at the above-mentioned FAC). Per WP:MOSTITLE, titles of papers should generally be displayed in quote marks only; italics might be proper for the title of the occasional very long paper, but I see no case for using both. Maralia (talk) 23:50, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Will be fixed when the edit proposed 2 sections up is put into place. Martin (Smith609 – Talk) 02:53, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote marks plus italics