Talk:Quechuan languages

message: I'm confused - can someone explain why Qu redirects here? -- Chuq 02:36, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: My guess would be becuase qu is the ISO language name for quechua (ie. en=english) The bellman 13:18, 2004 Dec 17 (UTC)
This is a good article, however, shouldn't it redirect from Quechua to Runa Simi? I can understand that most people know the language as Quechua, but it's a bit like having Inuktitut redirect to "Eskimo language." It would be perfectly appropriate, if you argue that Quechua is the English name, like Spanish for "Español", but it's not, it's a Spanish borrowing (whose origin I don't know). If there was an English word, it'd be something along the lines of "Roona See-mee" or an equally odd-looking approximation.
Atomsprengja 01:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I've talked to the one Professor who teaches the language at the Ohio State University, and he calls it "Quechua" in English.  That's good enough for me, and because that's what it gets referred to as in English, I think it's a good name for the article.  If you came to the university and asked to learn Quechua, they'd send you to the Spanish and Portuguese department to talk to this guy, but if you asked to learn Runa Simi, you'd be told it's not offered here.Mitchell Powell (talk) 19:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: redirect

message: : Quechua has been written using the Roman alphabet since
Okay, but exactly which characters are in its alphabet, and in what order?  The article should either answer this, or explain why it can't be asked.  65.57.245.11 22:39, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The spelling conventions differ by dialect, and there are at least three spelling systems, as the article explains.  An appropriate place to explain them all would be in the article on Cusco-Collao; we should really move away from putting too much dialect-specific information in this article.   Zompist 03:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writing system section 

message: Which type of Quechua is this written for?  My guess is "southern Quechua" based on the above section, but it doesn't really say.  It is slightly different from the Quechua I study (Qusqu).  E.g. we see "-rqa" written for past sometimes, but always say "-ra" for past.  Also switching "n" for "m"'s.. well the specifics aren't too important, someone that really knows should just put a sentence in saying what "type" of Quechua this grammar refers to.  User:Kinser
:As the article has come from many hands, it's a bit piecemeal.  At the moment most of the examples in the Grammar section use Ayacucho spelling, though there are some Cusco forms in there too. Zompist 03:45, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See Clusivity. This feature is far from unique to these languages; it's found throughout the world and really, absolutely common in the Americas. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 12:59, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar section 

message: I'd say no; that would be like merging "Portuguese" with "Romance".  With 2.5 million speakers, Kichwa is a very respectable Amerindian language on its own-- more widely spoken than anything north of the Rio Grande.  And we already have articles on other varieties of Quechua, those of Cuzco and Ayacucho. Zompist 14:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merger with Kichwa

message: Concerning the recent edition/reversion:
Regarding the presence of Quechua in Chile, the only definite source I could come up with, is:
http://csociales.uchile.cl/publicaciones/sitios/lenguas/estadolg.htm
It says here:
"Comparativamente, la vigencia del quechua, actualmente, es mínima. Según Lehnert, "en el presente el Quechua es hablado por algunos ancianos en las áreas de Cupo-Turi, y por algunos habitantes en Toconce y Estación San Pedro, como resultado del asentamiento de mano de obra que vive indistintamente en ambos sectores de la línea fonteriza Chile-Bolivia y muy de acuerdo con sus patrones de vida andinos" (Lehnert, 1981: 31). No proporciona información sobre número de hablantes. Luego, habría también hablantes de quechua, igualmente ancianos, en Arica e Iquique. Ellos procederían de Bolivia, llegando a trabajar en las minas y salitreras del norte, a comienzos de este siglo. Posteriormente se radicaron en esas ciudades. No se dispone de mayores antecedentes al respecto."
I read this as follows: There are a few villages near the Bolivian border where Quechua used to be the traditional language of the community, but there were only a few elderly speakers left in 1981 (or whenever Lehnert did his fieldwork). As that was 25 years ago, we can reasonably assume most of them to be deceased by now.
Then, there are some speakers of Quechua in Arica and Iquique, but these are immigrants to the country and should not count here, as there are certainly more speakers of Quechua in New York or San Francisco, and we do not seriously want to list those towns here.
I conclude from this that Quechua in Chile is either dead or in its very last stages.
However, I will not revert the recent changes before having discussed the matter here.Unoffensive text or character 09:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Ethnologue shows over 4500 speakers of Quechua in Chile: , though it's not stated when the information dates to.  Note that since Quechua certainly was spoken in Chile, even if it's not today it would be better to say "...formerly Chile" in the geographical distribution rather than simply remove it. Zompist 16:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

text: There's no problem with being specific, here; we don't have to be succinct. We could say "and a small, nearly exitinct following in Chile", or something like that. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 16:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: All the more reason to get rid of the Languages of Chilean navigation template!--Gacelo 16:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quechua in Chile 

message: Quechua is "indigenous languages official in own territories in Ecuador", according to the most recent edit. Does anyone know how those "own territories" are defined? Is there a map somewhere on the web where they can be looked up?Unoffensive text or character 09:43, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I could be wrong, but I think that the government recognizes ayllus as legitimate governmental bodies, and allows that Quechua is the official language in such ayllus.  --Descendall 06:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the Constitution of Ecaudor: "El castellano es el idioma oficial. El quichua, el shuar y los demás idiomas ancestrales son de uso oficial para los pueblos indígenas, en los términos que fija la ley." "Castillian is the official language.  Quichua, Shuar and the other ancestral languages are of official use for the indigenous pueblos, in the terms fixed by law."  Of course pueblo here probably means "people" but could also mean towns.  --Descendall 06:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ecuador 

message: I also now note that Peru's constitution says "Spanish and, in areas where they predominate, Quechua, Aymara, and other native languages are official languages, according to the law" and Bolivia's constitution simply says that the languages of indigenous people are "respected and protected within the framework of the law."  --Descendall 06:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Official status

message: At 17:48, 14 May 2007 User:Gacelo proposed merging this article with Quechuan languages without a comment. I think there is no necessity to merge the two articles, as this article (Quechua) mainly deals with the language itself, with sociolinguistic aspects and history, whereas "Quechuan languages" is about classification of the varieties of the Quechua languages. The term "Quechuan languages" is highly disputed because some linguist consider it one single language. Therefore the Spanish article has been named :es:Variantes del Quechua. -- PhJ 07:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The distinction between language vs. dialect and small language family vs. language is notoriously contested, but and even the "mutual intelligibility" criterion, the most popular tool to help settle this kind of issue, is not straightforward at all. However, I think to call Quechua a single language stretches it and is misleading. I do get the impression that the comparison with Slavic, Arabic, Scandinavian/Norse, Tibetic and perhaps Sinitic (sans Min) is fair: The relationship is undoubtedly close and the similarity unmistakable, but in order to describe the grouping is just a little too incoherent to describe it as a single language; it's probably better considered at the very least four, or rather ten (or so) closely related languages. I note that the Spanish article is now at :es:Lenguas quechuas and :es:Variantes del Quechua has been deleted. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 16:00, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merger with "Quechuan languages" 

message: Here is a comment was written by 85.60.51.20 that I'm moving from the article to here:
I do not have the reference for the following to hand however I have read that the above is how the ancient Greeks perceived the world. For instance - picture a time-line, oriented left to right where leftwards indicates the past and rightwards indicates the future. A person from ancient Greece and a speaker of Quecha would place a pictorial representation of themselves with their eyes fixed leftwards watching the past unfold before their eyes. It is an interesting intersection of metaphor, orientation an epistemology. The European model has the orientation of the perceiver reversed. I would not privilege either word-view.
Hope this is useful, Lisatwo 13:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is sometimes called the "ascending time" and "descending time" metaphor, for example here on p. 375, or "moving-ego" vs. "moving-events" in cognitive linguistics, compare Aymara language#Idiosyncrasies. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 14:51, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  adverbs comment by 85.60.51.20 

message: I have a background in linguistics, but I confess my ignorance of the indiginous languages of Central and South America.  This is a very interesting article, but I would like to know more about how this language is classified.  What are its familial affiliations (or is it an isolate)? Is it related to any other languages/families in the Americas?  Has a "proto-Quechua" been identified and/or linked to other languages?  Most other language articles have this info, or at least acknowledge its non-existence, if appropriate.  Thanks.--William Thweatt Talk | Contribs 15:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More info on classification/relationship please

message: User:Mary Tania added the following to the article:
:It is important to know that the word "Quechua" or "Qheswa" is not the real name of the language of the Incas. The proper title to their language given by the Incas was "Qhapaq Runasimi", "The Great Language of the people" (Qhapaq = great, Runa = People, Simi = language). The word Quechua was given by Dominican priest Pedro Aparicio in the times of the conquest in 1540 misundestanding the meaning. The root of the word 'quechua' means, taken away by force,"quechuanchis" were called the Spaniards by the Incas an expression that means all together, killers, thiefs.
:Quechuy = means, expropiar, robar by force.
:Quechuypa = is a verb wich it means = the action of stealing.
:To all of you who read this statement I ask you to refer to the descendenst of the Inca Impire not as a indigenous people because they weren't. The Inca Empire is to be seen as one of the great Cultures in the world. It will only be fair to refer to their present people as the "Inca descendents" and to their language not as Quechua but as the "Qhapaq Runasimi".
:Manan "KECHUWACHU" nitaq "QHESACHU" sutinqa. Sutinqa = Qhapaq Runasimin Tawantinsuyu Incakunaq Simin Llapan.
An encyclopedia isn't the place for advocacy.  The article already gives the Quechua name for the language.  The other statements above need to be given sources.  My sources (e.g. Mannheim (p. 7) and Cerrón-Palomino (p. 33), listed in the references; the dictionary of the Academia Mayor de la Lengua Quechua; see also the Spanish version of this article) give the etymology of Quechua as qichwa, Cusqueño qhishwa, 'temperate valley', rather than qichuy.   Anyway 'robbers' would be something like qichuqkuna.  Zompist (talk) 16:53, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Qhapaq Runasimi 

message: Because of the lack of an actual organization regulator of Quechua, I think we need to maintain the Spanish orthography in those words which come from it. Since the pronunciation depends on the speaker's knowlege of Spanish, any borrowing from it could be pronounced as it is in Spanish (e. g.: chofer (driver) -> /chofer/), if the speaker actually speaks Spanish, or has had any contact with it (as it is in the majority of cases), or as the speaker could (e. g.: chofer (driver) -> /chufir/). So, it is necessary, in my opinion, that we write every borrowing as it is done in the original language.--Le K-li (talk) 14:26, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many scholars and educators who use Quechua would disagree.  (Take a look at the Quechua Wikipedia, for instance.)  In any case the sentences with chufir are taken from Clotoaldo Soto Ruiz's textbooks; I don't think it's appropriate for an encyclopedia to second-guess the best grammarians of the language. Zompist (talk) 16:51, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I write in the Quechua Wikipedia, and actually they agree with me!! But I know many educators would disagree. My opinion is based on what a native speaker told me (who, in fact, is my Quechua teacher), and when you listen to them, they use several expressions in Spanish, as they must be pronounced, without any problem. Nowadays, there's nearly no Quechua-speaking person who doesn't speaks Spanish as well.--Le K-li (talk) 23:00, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

text: PS: I learn Quechua with the Soto Ruiz's book!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Le K-li (talk • contribs) 23:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About borrowings from Spanish 

message: So in Quechua linguistics, one doesn't talk about a "nominative case", which is of course "the noun itself", but is regarded as a case in most other languages? Belgian man (talk) 20:44, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. I assume the nominative can be listed among the cases then. Thus, Quechua has 20 cases? Belgian man (talk) 12:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a little trickier... I'm not sure that all the things listed on the page are cases.  Quechua has a lot of suffixes, and grammars classify them differently.  One grammar I have here (Itier) lists just nominative, accusative, genitive, allative, ablative, locative, instrumental, associative, benefactive, comparative, terminative, causative, and translative; others are particles or derivational suffixes.  Other grammars have slightly different lists.   Zompist (talk) 15:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay I see. As a beginner, I am learning Quechua with the Lonely Planet phrasebook ;) Belgian man (talk) 20:07, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nominative case 

message: The article about Fernando Avendano, who was a 17th century Catholic priest in Peru, ends with the sentences "Of great importance to linguistics are his Sermones de los misterios de nuestra santa Fe católica, published in 1649 by the order of the Archbishop of Lima, Petro Villagomez. These sermons were delivered in Quichua, and are published with their translation into Spanish." Could one of you experts take a look and decide whether "Quichua" is the right word, and whether it should redirect (as it does now) to "Kichwa"? Thanks. 24.36.74.15 (talk) 02:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm no expert, but I do know Spanish, and in Spanish 'Quichua' and 'Kichwa' would be pronounced identically, if that helps at all.Mitchell Powell (talk) 19:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fernando Avendano 

message: I reverted this edit for two reasons:
*i) The number of possible speakers in Chile has already been discussed and agreed upon here;
*ii) The number of 1,500 speakers in Brazil lacks reference.Unoffensive text or character (talk) 12:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  revert 

message: There is an ongoing discussion at Sacsayhuamán about a possible rename to Sacsayhuaman, without diacritics. Users watching this page might be interested in voicing their opinions at Talk:Sacsayhuamán#Requested move. --Victor12 (talk) 19:48, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sacsayhuamán proposed for renaming 

message: Quechua is a nice article, but duplicates either Quechuan languages or the various articles on individual Quechua languages. I don't see a point to having all three. kwami (talk) 23:01, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been suggested before.  See Talk:Quechuan languages. Zompist (talk) 20:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Yes, it's ambiguous. So why not just move the family here? Or redirect this article there? There's a lot of duplicate info. kwami (talk) 00:41, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If there's duplicate info, we should either merge or articulate some sort of criterion of scope for each article since they also seem to be covering more or less the same topic.  — Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 02:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge 

message: Should the Quechua Speaking World image be changed with the new version at the right? 
The new image shows a easier to read map, because it only shows the quechua zone; and also this image is in the SVG raster image format. Ularevalo98 (talk) 02:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change of localization image 

message: Is the translation for the adessive case in the table correct? It says the same as for the accusative case, this doesn't seem right. Nothingbutmeat (talk) 22:57, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch.  It isn't an adessive, which is a form of locative; -ntin is used for ‘in the company of X’, ‘the whole of X [time units]’, or ‘a group of X [numbers]’. Zompist (talk) 23:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I see you've changed it to comitative, that makes a lot more sense! If I may venture a criticism, I'd say the order of the cases is a bit strange, is there a particular thought behind their order in the list? I would have grouped the "basic" cases (nom., acc., dat. etc) together first, then the locative cases and so on. Nothingbutmeat (talk) 22:50, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adessive 

message: Dr. Galen Brokaw argues in A History of the Khipu (Cambridge U P, 2010), that the khipu is a semiotic system that stands in for writing, despite traditional allegations that Andean peoples had no writing but were only oral cultures.  
cf Quipu
Ocdnctx (talk) 01:39, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khipu a semiotic system that stands in for writing?   

message: The new image was proposed few years ago, and it was added to article. However, there is no reason given why (only) Bolivia is highlighted in darkest colour. The article says most speakers are in Peru, second most in Bolivia. It is official language in both Bolivia and Peru. So, there is no reason to have only Bolivia in darkest colour. Or is there? If there is, it was not explained but it should be. 82.141.118.227 (talk) 02:41, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map image 

message: > There is a sharp dichotomy in Quechua between the varieties of the central Peruvian highlands and the peripheral varieties of Ecuador on the 
> one hand and southern Peru and Bolivia on the other. These are labeled Quechua I (or Quechua B, central) and Quechua II (or Quechua A, peripheral).
seems to be a contradiction, I am not an expert but should the first sentence read:
if not please clarify
> There is a sharp dichotomy in Quechua between the varieties of the central Peruvian highlands on the one hand and the peripheral varieties of Ecuador,
> southern Peru and Bolivia on the other. These are labeled Quechua I (or Quechua B, central) and Quechua II (or Quechua A, peripheral).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gene Thomas (talk • contribs) 17:02, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The phrasing is not optimal, but I think it refers to the fact that the peripheral varieties are split between northern and southern varieties, i. e., varieties spoken north of the central Quechua varieties (which are found in central Peru) – namely in Ecuador and northern Peru – on the one hand, and varieties spoken to the south of central Quechua – in southern Peru and Bolivia. Compare the map. This is really rather tricky to express. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 13:19, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classification section clarification please 

message: A section of phonetics/pronunciation should be started. --Dorpater (talk) 19:47, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phonetics/Pronunciation. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: As the outcome of a discussion that took place in 2006, the number of Quechua speakers was changed to "few, if any". This was supported by http://csociales.uchile.cl/publicaciones/sitios/lenguas/estadolg.htm, which is now to be found here.
Comparativamente, la vigencia del quechua, actualmente, es mínima. Según Lehnert, "en el presente el Quechua es hablado por algunos ancianos en las áreas de Cupo-Turi, y por algunos habitantes en Toconce y Estación San Pedro, como resultado del asentamiento de mano de obra que vive indistintamente en ambos sectores de la línea fonteriza Chile-Bolivia y muy de acuerdo con sus patrones de vida andinos" (Lehnert, 1981: 31). No proporciona información sobre número de hablantes. Luego, habría también hablantes de quechua, igualmente ancianos, en Arica e Iquique. Ellos procederían de Bolivia, llegando a trabajar en las minas y salitreras del norte, a comienzos de este siglo. Posteriormente se radicaron en esas ciudades. No se dispone de mayores antecedentes al respecto."
This is further supported by Alain Fabre, Diccionario etnolingüístico y guía bibliográfica de los pueblos indígenas sudamericanos: Quechua, p. 84
Chile: quizás se hable todavía en algunos lugares aislados de la prov. de Antofagasta, en el altiplano cercano a Bolivia, pero no existe ninguna confirmación actual al respecto. Hacia los años 20, Hanson (1926) afirma que Aiquina [en el río Salado, afluente del Loa, a unos 75 kms. al este de la ciudad de Calama] y Caspana [a 16 kms. al este de Ayquina, al pie del monte de Cablor, a unos 30 kms. en línea derecha al oeste del geyser de Tatío, en la frontera boliviana] eran bilingües quechua-español, mientras en el pueblo de Toconce [a unos 25 kms. al norte de Caspana y hacia el oeste del cerro Linzor], se hablaba aymara y español. De todas maneras, en esta zona, tanto el quechua como el aymara se hablaron sobre un substrato kunza. Lehnert (1981-82, citado por Sánchez 1993-94) dice que algunos ancianos todavía hablan el quechua en Cupo y Turi [dos pueblitos ], así como en Toconce y Estación San Pedro.
The claim that there are 8,200 speakers in Chile according to the 2002 census is certainly wrong, as the census did not ask for language use or proficiency.
I will therefore revert that claim to "few, if any". Yupanqui (talk) 09:20, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quechua in Chile once more 

message: The lead paragraph ends with:
: It is perhaps most widely known for being the main language of the Inca Empire and was disseminated by the colonisers throughout their reign but ultimately survived and has since then evolved, and variants are still widely spoken today.
That's literally nonsense; whoever wrote it didn't know what "disseminate" means:
: 1: to spread abroad as though sowing seed · disseminate ideas
: 2: to disperse throughout
:: —Merriam-Webster
So the colonizers spread the language but it survived? No. To quote §  History, just below that,
: After the Spanish conquest of the Inca Empire in the 16th century, Quechua continued to be used widely by the indigenous peoples as the "common language". It was officially recognized by the Spanish administration and many Spanish learned it in order to communicate with the local peoples.[8] Clergy of the Catholic Churchadopted Quechua to use as the language of evangelization. Given its use by the Catholic missionaries, the range of Quechua continued to expand in some areas.
: In the late 18th century, colonial officials ended administrative and religious use of Quechua, banning it from public use in Peru after the Túpac Amaru II rebellion of indigenous peoples.[5] The Crown banned even "loyal" pro-Catholic texts in Quechua, such as Garcilaso de la Vega's Comentarios Reales.[9]
: Despite a brief revival of the language immediately after the Latin American nations achieved independence in the 19th century, the prestige of Quechua had decreased sharply. Gradually its use declined so that it was spoken mostly by indigenous people in the more isolated and conservative rural areas. Nevertheless, in the 21st century, those speaking Quechua language speakers number 8 to 10 million people across South America,[5] the most speakers of any indigenous language.
I'm changing that sentence in the lead paragraph to
: The colonisers initially encouraged its use, but from the middle of their reign they suppressed it. But Quechua ultimately survived,  evolving as all languages do, and variants are still widely spoken today.
--Thnidu (talk) 03:13, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong word →‎ nonsense 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The native pronunciations of "Quechua" and "Runasimi" are missing. And shouldn't that be "Runa Simi" in two words, or is the link to the Quechuan Wikipedia spelled wrong?! It's spelled as one word on https://qu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qhichwa_simi --Espoo (talk) 20:52, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  native pronunciations of the language names missing!  

message: Mahal kita 49.149.183.41 (talk) 05:33, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahal kita 

message: Quechua language redirects here. However, as a non-specialist, my understanding is that references to a "Quechua language" almost always refer to Southern Quechua. Is this correct? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quechua language