Talk:Svādhyāya

message: I have added references to three verses from Manusmriti. I possess a Hindi translation by a knowledgeable sanyāsi, which gives accurate meanings, but often these meanings are incomplete. On the other hand, there is an online version of G. Bühler's translation which is wrong in its definitions of key terms like anadhyāya (I am giving the accurate version from Hindi translation in italics within brackets):
(Mn.2.105):"Both when (one studies) the supplementary treatises ("upakaranas" of Vedas, i,e, Vedāngas) of the Veda, and when (one recites) the daily portion of the Veda ("svādhyāye chaiva naityaki" in Sanskrit which should be translated as 'in svādhyāya and in nityakarmas'), no regard need be paid to forbidden days ("anadhyaye",i.e, 'negligence' and not 'forbidden days' here; it is a special case according to the Hindi translator ) , likewise when (one repeats) the sacred texts required for a burnt oblation".
(Mn.2.106): There are no forbidden days for the daily recitation (naityaki should be translated as nityakarma and not as daily recitation) , since that is declared to be a Brahmasattra (an everlasting sacrifice offered to Brahman); at that the Veda takes the place of the burnt oblations, and it is meritorious (even), when (natural phenomena, requiring) a cessation of the Veda-study (anadhyaya) , take the place of the exclamation Vashat.
(Mn.2.107): For him who, being pure and controlling his organs, during a year daily recites the Veda (svādhyāya) according to the rule, that (daily recitation) will ever cause sweet and sour milk, clarified butter and honey to flow.
Bühler gives a tolerable meaning for (Mn.2.107), but in (Mn.2.106) 'naityaki has been translated in such a way that its meaning conflicts with that of svādhyāya. But in (Mn.2.106) he gives a true meaning of anadhyaya, while in (Mn.2.105) he imposes this same literal meaning which renders the passage meaningless : if svādhyāya cannot be stopped on anadhyaya days as Bühler says in (Mn.2.105), does it not conflict with his meaning of anadhyaya as 'a cessation of the Veda-study' as given in (Mn.2.106)? Bühler took liberties with many technical terms of Hinduism. Please help in finding better secondary English sources for Manusmriti.  Vinay Jha 08:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am going to begin looking for what I would consider a WP:RS both for the Sanskrit text and English translation of MS, and hope to have something within a few weeks.  For purposes of the article, I would avoid getting into the complexities of non-recitation days, because opinions vary about them and they are not central to the article.  Simply finding any English secondary sources that discuss them is the first challenge. Because many of the authors do not use the Vedic recitation meaning for svādhyāya, they use that them and then proceed to discuss general issues of study. Buddhipriya 06:52, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Opinions about the definition of non-recitation days do not differ, even Bühler gives accurate meaning, he takes liberties making in tranalations. I think MW is WP:RS for technical definitions of such terms and there is no need to waste time, although you may search for better translations if you like. Bühler's mistakes may be omitted as minority opinion conflicting with MW which is regarded by the majority. -Vinay Jha 07:01, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manusmriti :RS 

message: Book Title : Rgveda-bhashya-bhoomika
Hindi Commentator : Jagannath Pathak
Publisher : Chowkhamba Vidyabhawan, Chowk, PO Box 1069,Varanasi-1
This book is the only readily available source for students of Veda in Sanskrit universities, all of which have prescribed 'Sayan's Introduction to RV' in the syllabus for post-graduation. This commentator's personal opinions are often wrong, but his translation of Sayan is reliable, provided Sayan's version is before one for comparison. -Vinay Jha 11:21, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hindi Translation of Sayan's Introduction to RV 

message: Charles MALAMOUD ( traduction et commentaire)
Le Svadhyaya- récitation personnelle du véda. Taittiriya- Aranyaka livre2
Institut de Civilisation Indienne, Fascicule 42
Ed. E.de BOCCARD, 247 p, 1977
17 euros
Très bon état
"THE SVADHYAYA: THE RITUAL OF THE SCHOLAR" as "Just as the social form of the transmission of the Veda during the Sutra Period"
-Vinay Jha 11:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A French book titled 'THE SVADHYAYA' 

message: Swami Krishnananda,The Divine Life Society,Sivananda Ashram, Rishikesh, India, http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/patanjali/raja_53.html       gives a good account of yogic meaning of svādhyāya as practised by sincere students of Yoga:
"A daily recitation—with the understanding of the meaning—of such hymns as the Purusha Sukta from the Veda, for instance, is a great svadhyaya, as Vachaspati Mishra, the commentator on the Yoga Sutras, mentions(1ooo years ago)." (Traditionally, the most prominent commentary on Patanjali's Yogasutra is that of Vyasa, to whose work Vachaspati Misra has contributed an explanation of Vyasa's commentary.)
"There are various other methods of svadhyaya. It depends upon the state of one’s mind—how far it is concentrated, how far it is distracted, what these desires are that have remained frustrated inside, what the desires are that have been overcome, and so on. The quality of the mind will determine the type of svadhyaya that one has to practise. If nothing else is possible, do parayana of holy scriptures—the Sundara Kanda, the Valmiki Ramayana or any other Ramayana, the Srimad Bhagavata Mahapurana, the Srimad Bhagavadgita, the Moksha Dharma Parva of the Mahabharata, the Vishnu Purana, or any other suitable spiritual text. It has to be recited again and again, every day at a specific time, in a prescribed manner, so that this sadhana itself becomes a sort of meditation—because what is meditation but hammering the mind, again and again, into a single idea? Inasmuch as abstract meditations are difficult for beginners, these more concrete forms of it are suggested. There are people who recite the Ramayana or the Srimad Bhagavata 108 times. They conduct Bhagvat Saptaha. The purpose is to bring the mind around to a circumscribed form of function and not allow it to roam about on the objects of sense."
"If a continued or sustained study of such scriptures is practised, it is purifying. It is a tapas by itself, and it is a study of the nature of one’s own Self, ultimately. The word ‘sva’ is used here to designate this process of study —svadhyaya. ...  The purpose of every sadhana is only this much: to bring the mind back to its original source." 
"Sometimes it is held that japa of a mantra also is a part of svadhyaya. That is a more concentrated form of it, requiring greater willpower. ... Adepts in yoga often tell us that the chanting of a mantra like pranava is tantamount to svadhyaya."
Athvale's Parivar merits a brief reference in a section 'modern uses of svadhyaya'. -Vinay Jha 11:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I recommend against the use of web sites as sources for this article.  Most of them cite no WP:RS and thus cannot qualify as WP:RS themselves, as their content is dubious.  Also, making links to religious organization is a form of advertising for those organizations.  I think we can source the general meaning as "study" from books I have on hand. Since the term appears in the Gita and in the Yoga Sutras, any published commentary in English on those works is likely to have a comment on it.  I have several such on hand but have not had time to enter them. In general I think that the best sources are books, published by major publishing houses or by major religious figures whose own notability is not easily disputed. Buddhipriya 07:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no need to cite websites. Vyās-bhāshya, Yogavārtika by Vijnānabhikshu, Bhojvritti , and commentary by Vāchaspati MIshra of 10th century AD are standard Sanskrit commentaries of Patanjali's Yogasutra, and there is a very good Hindi commentary by Gitā Press of Gorakhpur based on these Sanskrit commentaries. This Hindi commentary was written by a real Yogi who was also a scholar. I suggested the above website only because it gives the true meaning of svādhyāya as actually practised by practising Yogis. For subjects like Yoga I do not rely upon English translators or commentators, but there are many whom you may search out yourself. -Vinay Jha 12:18, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yogi's Version of Svadhyaya