Talk:Babalawo

message: Iboru Iboya, My immediate problem with this page is a lack of resources other than Chief S. Solagbade. I'm sure even S. Solabade would agree that there are many roads to knowledge and the absence of any other authors looks at best suspicious. Furthermore, there is no further reading to stimulate or acknowledge ANY other experts (or Babalawos for that matter). For those editors reading this do note the title of "Chief" (sic Yoruba) is often honorary among the Yoruba tribes : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6924870.stm  I point this out simply for the unenlightened and mean no disrespect to S. Solabade. The text is OK and concise. Religion and even titles are often controversial and I like the fact it was seemingly written with this in mind. Certainly it could be expanded, yet each expansion MAY bring controversy. One difficulty in discussing this page is that the author is either from the African branch of Orisha/ Orisa worship and the majority of Orisha worshipers in the US belong to the Cuban system. Of course ANY author has to be from a particular branch, yet I'd humbly suggest to have the page a bit more balanced. About 45- 50% of the page is dedicated to the subject of Women in IFA and while this is an important issue, personally I do not think it warrants this much of the page. "Awo's" just pops up with little lead in that Baba means father and lawo means (sic/ of mysteries or secrets)....yet for the unenlightened seeing Awo is confusing... so that could be cleaned up. I'd like to see more on the Odu, something addressing the US, Cuba and Brazil, Lucumi and certainly more on IFA. Finally, the author gives a late opinion that William Bascom ( who was certainly AN expert) was THE FOREMOST....and that as we know should at the least be ONE OF THE FOREMOST.....Really, there are plenty of subtopics that are NOT controversial, Ikin for example, or they might talk about the Iro Ifa etc. The author uses the phrase "diving chain" (Opele) yet he or she does not tell the reader what that is, only what it is used for. Kola nuts though less common in the US are also used in Africa and this is not mentioned. We see a word "Ajogun" with no explanation."  no one can not become a full Awo " (double negative AND I think he/she meant no one can become....The page worries me because it is VERY close to being non neutral. Awo Ogbe Sa  Cubaking (talk) 08:56, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revision 

message: Iyalawo and Omo Obatala keep revising materials which have valid, properly cited sources in favor of an article that only contains their own personal biases with no sources to back up their POV. Those of us who are in the religion are acutely aware of controversies surrounding the initiation of Iyanifas or now Iyalawos. These two replace material showing both sides of the controversy with an article containing only their personal bias. To prevent certain accusations of not being properly acquainted with the subject matter, I should mention that I am a babalawo (and omo Odu) myself with twenty years experience and twenty five years as an Orisha priest. Lozen8 (talk) 19:58, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it is you who insists on revising the article to an older edit without consensus. Also, the sources are mainly – if not all – related to Iyalawo, and therefore hold no value to the Babalawo article. I simply cleaned up the article and removed irrelevant/unsourced content. What POV is being pushed? You keep referencing a personal bias without providing evidence. I would like to resolve this conflict peacefully, as we are all practitioners and our focus should be on improving religious articles. Omo Obatalá (talk) 22:55, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

text: Omo Obatala and I are in general agreement as to the changes and willing to resolve this peacefully. Everything added had a reference and any information presented should be able to show both sides or none. It was reasonable to separate the articles and remove bias.  Your edits do not reflect the majority of tradtional Ifa, most of Nigeria or the United States. Your references are outdated by at least 50  to 100 years. I have suggested that a point to differentiate the two may be in order to avoid confusion. Lucumi has clearly stated they are different, separate, and distinct therefore they should have their own pages when expounding on their theology. In absence of such a distiction needs to be made when presenting different lineages perspective as fact for the whole tradition.  Like it or not, Iyanifas do exist and are initiated priests of Ifa.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iyalawo (talk • contribs) 20:25, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

text: Yes, the only sources for what Babalawo's think of Iyalawo/Iyanifa in different regions; this article is regarding Babalawo only. You're trying to include irrelevant content to this article. Omo Obatalá (talk) 13:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

text: Indeed, it is controversial throughout West Africa and the diaspora. Omo Obatalá (talk) 14:12, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

text: Again any mention of the Iyalawo or Iyanifa must include the controversy as to this day the vast majority of Orisha worshipers do not recognize the position. Almost all Iyalawos or Iyanifas are in the United States and it appears the initiation is almost exclusively performed on outsiders traveling to Yorubaland from such places as the U.S. and Europe as opposed to Yorubas themselves. In fact, I invite you to name twenty Yoruba Iyanifas or Iyalawos (I suspect you will find it extremely difficult to name even ten). If the Iyalawo/Iyanifa is as traditional and common as you suggest, you should also have no trouble listing five or ten odus of Ifá (out of literally thousands) directly  mentioning the title Iyalawo or Iyanifa by name, as in something like "Iya odara was the name of the Iyalawo who divined for..."). Of course, none of us know how things will pan out in the future where it is entirely within the realm of possibility the Iyalawo/Iyanifa will become generally accepted. The issue I have here is the obvious attempt to use Wikipedia as a tool to fabricate that generalized acceptance.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lozen8 (talk • contribs) 18:20, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revisions Removing  Sourced Material, Replacing It with Biased Article. 

message: — Assignment last updated by Someonecute1 (talk) 07:45, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Honors World Religions