Talk:Ottoman architecture

message: This "article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the subject" tag currently at the top of the entry is certainly justified. Some of the content of the article is so bad it reduced me to laughter! The most giggle-rousing bit was where it was claimed that (in the 13th century Divrigi mosque portals) the Turks invented Baroque architecture and them passed the style on to Italy! Meowy 13:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Observations 

message: why is turkish architecture redirecting here? Turkish is not the same as ottoman, they had seljuks and they have modern turkish architecture (after the proclamation of the republic) as well. --Timish ¤ Gül Bahçesi 20:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder the same thing. Also "Architecture of Turkey" redirects here but it is completely different... Ottoman is in the past, where is modern Turkey's architecture? --Egek (talk) 14:57, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please people, we need to create a page for modern Turkish Architecture. Anyone know anything? I'm an Architecture student from Delft, The Netherlands, but I don't know anything about currect Architecture in Turkey. Comeon you lazy Turkish Students you are studying in English so use it! I. Kilic 82.171.81.187 (talk) 14:14, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: redirect? why?

message: Respectfully strongly disagree re: merge - Would be similar to merging Moorish architecture with Spanish architecture. There is not even a direct [or indirect] categories link from it to :Category:Spanish architecture, as historic 'Moorish' was centered in but extended beyond present day Spain-the Iberian Peninsula. So with Ottoman architecture in the Ottoman Empire extending beyond present day Turkey, and belonging only in :Category:Turkish architecture by period but Not merged into Culture of Turkey survey article. 
Turkey and its rich architectural heritage deserves an independent new Turkish architecture. or Timeline of Turkish architecture survey article briefly covering the many eras-styles in :Category:Early Turkish Anatolian architecture and :Category:Turkish architecture, freestanding from the Culture of Turkey and Ottoman architecture articles.  Perhaps similar in format to Timeline of Italian architecture with {See|Neo-baroque}}... {See|Gothic Revival architecture}}... {See|Art Deco}}...etc links within it--?--?  — and — A separate new focused Turkish modern and contemporary architecture article, similar to Italian modern and contemporary architecture, on 20th-21st century Turkish architecture.--?--?---cheers---Look2See1 t a l k → 04:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think "Architecture of Turkey" (now redirect) would be best. --Elekhh (talk) 07:24, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge ?? 

message: Contemporary (post-1923) Turkish Architecture categorized as 1st National, 2nd National etc. OnurT 17:40, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger forgot that; 

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thread_title: File:Ahmet Afif Pascha Yali.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: I am going to delete this section.  I don't think it is necessarily bad to have a section about Ottoman Paradise gardens, but this section is mostly not specific to Ottomans.  I think such a section fits better into the Islamic architechture wikipedia page.  Alternatively it could be written more like a encyclopedia entry and reincluded, with more specifics to the Ottomans.  
For example, the section starts off with a quote from the Quran, and proceeds to talk about how throughout the Muslim world mosques often have gardens next door, and these gardens fit with the content of the Quran.  This discussion continues for several paragraphs.  
In an article on Ottoman architecture, it would suffice to say that gardens are often built next to mosques throughout the Muslim world, and then link to the Islamic architecture page.  Only the distinctive features of Ottoman gardens should then be included here.  Again, I don't necessarily think there should not be a section on paradise gardens -- I just think it should focus on Ottomans rather than general Paradise gardens.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Veryshuai (talk • contribs) 05:58, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Paradise gardens section is too general, and doesn't fit here 

message: Ottoman Baroque is a style that has left its trace all over the former empire. It has its characteristics, representative architects & monuments, etc. It easily deserves its own article. There is a large monograph on the topic, Ünver Rüstem, Ottoman Baroque: The Architectural Refashioning of Eighteenth-Century Istanbul (2019) and probably much more in Turkish. Don't forget Ottoman Rococo, which is another term I came across and must be dealt with in this context, clarifying what's specific about it within Ottoman Baroque and in relation to European Rococo. I'm looking forward to see what's coming our way here. Arminden (talk) 20:23, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ottoman Baroque 

message: I have removed the following completely unsourced paragraph from the lead to be discussed here.
Ottoman architecture has a lot of interesting aspects, which should be presented concisely in the lead, along with its main achievements, but this is unbearably triumphalistic cultural nationalism - and factually wrong, as the Ottoman happened to inherit a territory heavy with artistic traditions, which have heavily influenced and actually have given birth to Ottoman art, as the (sourced) parts in the lead & article do show.
There are excellent scholars who have written with respect and knowledge about Ottoman architecture in the context of classical, Islamic, and European architecture. We need a summary of such a comment, not this.
Anyway, here is the composition "Why are we the best and have always been", which I've had the guts to remove from the lead:
"The Ottomans achieved the highest level architecture in their lands hence or since. [Says who? What about the ancient Greeks & Byzantines?] They mastered the technique of building vast inner spaces confined by seemingly weightless yet massive domes, [Hagia Sophia...?] and achieving perfect harmony between inner and outer spaces, as well as articulated light and shadow. Islamic religious architecture which until then consisted of simple buildings with extensive decorations, was transformed by the Ottomans through a dynamic architectural vocabulary of vaults, domes, semi-domes and columns. The mosque was transformed from being a cramped and dark chamber with arabesque-covered walls into a sanctuary of aesthetic and technical balance, refined elegance and a hint of heavenly transcendence." [Says who? What about the Umayyads, to mention just the best known Islamic precursors?]
Enjoy. Arminden (talk) 20:31, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Short description is needed in the lead, but not a propagandistic ode 

message: the aforementioned mosque is called masjid e Al Shaikh Al Hafiz Ameen bin A.Rehman Syed Tariq Haider (talk) 12:47, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  another mosque with the ottoman architecture is present in the Shah rukn e Alam colony,new Multan, Multan, Pakistan, 

message: I've created a new Early Ottoman architecture page to host the content of the "Early Ottoman period" section and allow for further expansion of related topics there instead of here. I believe the new page is needed for the sake of managing this page's length but it's worth noting again that there's no exact definition of "Early Ottoman architecture", it's more of a chronological label, so I was wary of how to define the scope of the new article. The label certainly applies up to the 15th century, but some authors treat pre-1453 and post-1453 architecture in different chapters or sections (for example). Still, as already discussed and cited in the main article here, the Classical period is generally considered to begin with Sinan, and the Bayezid II Mosque is often cited as the last stage before Sinan. So I figured the simplest and most useful option was to set the new article's scope as including everything up to Bayezid II's time (i.e. everything before the Classical period), which is how this article is currently divided too.
With that in mind, the lead of the new page currently starts with: "Early Ottoman architecture corresponds to the period of Ottoman architecture roughly up to the 15th century. This article covers the history of Ottoman architecture up to the end of Bayezid II's reign (r. 1447–1512), prior to the advent of what is generally considered "classical" Ottoman architecture in the 16th century.", followed by a footnote explaining that some authors divide their discussion of the period in different ways. Maybe this wording is fine, but if anyone can think of a better one, I'd welcome suggestions.
Lastly: now that this new page exists I will cut some of the less essential content from the "Early Ottoman period" section in this article (e.g. info on mosques built by viziers and other minor points), along with some of the images. The full content can still be found at the new page. R Prazeres (talk) 01:34, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: PS: If there's disagreement on the scope I've chosen for the Early Ottoman architecture page, then this too can be modified if needed. R Prazeres (talk) 02:05, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  New "Early Ottoman architecture" page created 

message: The categories are a mess but it looks like they have been holding photo walks in Algiers. There are quite a few new images in categories for the casbah, the citadel and the  Palace of the bey. Doublecheck the captions, I was  having trouble with that at one point.Elinruby (talk) 22:50, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Tile images

message: Apparently we are not using these at Regency of Algiers, ity you can good if not do as you see fit: 
File:Gustave Clarence Rodolphe Boulanger - La Cour du Palais de Dar Khdaouedj El Amia Alger.jpg
File:Palais du Bey d'Oran - plafond 2.jpg
File:Plafond1.jpg
File:Emile Claus - The mosque of Sidi Boumedienne.jpg
;Also: 
And:
File:Maison du Kasnadj - salon - Mieusement 03.jpg
File:Maison du Kasnadj - salon - Mieusement 02.jpg
File:Maison du Kasnadj - cour intérieure - Mieusement 07.jpg
File:Daraziza prise1.jpg 
Elinruby (talk) 10:37, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Possibly useful images

message: As I mentioned above, one of the next steps to improve the article is to reduce its length (by at least half; see WP:LENGTH). Relevant subarticles for each period have now been created (see previous talk page sections above), so all of that content, plus some extra detail, can now be found at: Early Ottoman architecture, Classical Ottoman architecture, Tulip Period architecture, Ottoman Baroque architecture, and Ottoman architecture in the 19th–20th centuries. So my plan is to go through each of the corresponding sections in this article and condense them to perhaps just 3-4 paragraphs and a few images each, focusing on general developments and maybe mentioning the most strictly important monuments only. I think that'll be enough, but we can condense further if needed. That will also free up some space for this article to potentially cover other general subtopics relevant to Ottoman architectural history in the future. 
I won't be starting right away, so feel free to bring any concerns or suggestions about this in the meantime. R Prazeres (talk) 03:43, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to start the trimming process today. I'll be doing it in stages, so I'm not sure yet how long it'll take. If there are any questions/issues that arise in the meantime, feel free to bring them up here. R Prazeres (talk) 21:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I've condensed the sections significantly. They could be condensed further, especially if we need to make room for other additions. In the meantime, they're still substantial enough to cover most of the important points of Ottoman architectural history, but short enough to satisfy WP:LENGTH. R Prazeres (talk) 03:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  this article now looks like a Wikipedia:Featured article candidate. I'd suggest you to nominate it. I just noticed a bit of MOS:SANDWICH, but the sourcing seem excellent. Size is under 10k words. Bogazicili (talk) 06:35, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: This could also be a Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5, but there is already Architecture of Turkey there  Bogazicili (talk) 07:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the article should indeed be in good shape by now. If I can find the time, I'll consider a GA nomination first. There are still some things missing for a complete article before I personally think it could be an FA. (One thing I could add quickly is a short section on architecture in the provinces, which is covered in more detail elsewhere but could be summarized here with relevant links.) I'm not sure how the "vital articles" work, but given the selection that is there, this could easily be a level 4 in the "style" section. R Prazeres (talk) 16:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article length