Talk:Masaaki Hatsumi

message: I hate the tone of disrespect this might convey, but what is his lineage?  Does he have a certificate from an ancient school of "ninjutsu" teachers?  I've seen this art practiced here and there, and things like the bizarre belt system and curious historical claims, combined with its apparent isolation from other budo, makes me wonder. --GenkiNeko 21:00, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lineage 

message: What is the value of a huge list of 'senior' students other than providing an opportunity for self promotion and link spam?  I suggest removing that whole section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.108.245.19 (talk) 19:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It shouldn't be removed, but added to a list article, something like: List of Intel Xeon microprocessors, instead of being included in this article - Chronos 14:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Alternate idea, link to Warrior Information Network and let Jack Hoban Shihan (or whomever is responsible now) do the work of updating it. The list won't be held to the same high standards as here, but you also won't have everyone posting their Sandan shidoshi-ho as a "senior student" as though on par with Nagato Shihan or Noguchi Shihan. Stslavik 09:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with the Alternate idea by Stslavik. Wikipedia should not have a listing of 50 or 60 black belts to contact if you're interested in this art. If the organization is well run, one or two contacts should be sufficient for redirecting to a good source to learn from. Is this the yellow pages? It is also a pain to keep this many people up to date, and almost looks like a self-glorifying post more than anything. I had to argue to get ONE external link in danzan-ryu jujitsu and there are 50 to 60 black belts listed here? This is not even supposed to be an article on an organization or school. This is a biographical article about Masaaki Hatsumi. C'mon something is definitely wrong.User5802 14:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

text:  Perhaps SOME of the higher ranking individuals in the Bujinkan should be placed here, instead of in a biographical article about the man who created this system.User5802 14:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An easy rule of thumb is if, like the aikidoka, they have their own article, they are notable if not remove them, then any notability argumetn can be had on individual articles not on mass. It also means the "John Smith 25th dan from sutton" doesn't just add them selves to the list, right now their all unsourced so there is not way to check. --Nate1481( t/c) 08:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is the value of a huge list of 'senior' students? 

message: It might be easier to flesh out the article if it were seperated into sub headings. For instance, put the 9 ryuha under a heading "soke" or put his film and television experience under "media". Try to improve the grade of the article. Stslavik 09:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section Out the Article? 

message: There is no discussion of Ninjutsu in this entire article. People come to the Bujinkan to be a ninja! Someone in the know has got to write SOMETHING about ninjutsu in here or am I wrong?User5802 14:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where's the Ninjutsu? 

message: I would have thought there'd be a link to Amatsu here. None yet  Shtanto (talk) 15:07, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Sign of the Amatsu either 

message: There is a very big dispute in the martial arts community over Richard Van Donk's title as Soke of Decuerdas Escrima. "Richard J. Van Donk 15th Dan, Soke of Decuerdas Escrima, California"
I will maintain a neutral point of view here but the following references and the fact that there is NO proof other than Van Donk's words that he is the "Soke of Decuerdas Escrima" require a deletion of that title immediately.
Arthur Gonzales, one of the leading practitioners of DeCuerdas Escrima
The dispute in the martial arts community over Van Donk being the soke of this system. How many sokes are there in the Filipino martial arts? Soke is a Japanese word.User5802 14:31, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BIG issue with Richard Van Donk information. 

message: sorry but Masaaki Hatsumi's article was filled up with so many 15th Dans and closely ranked black belts, that a consensus has been reached on it being better not to include any 15th dans or similar that don't at least have another Wikipedia article. If you can show some reason this individual is notable, you may persuade more people his name should be in an article on Masaaki Hatsumi User5802 01:14, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Doron Navon was his first non-Japanese student. Is that notable? source --132.69.234.73 (talk) 22:51, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eduard Divantman 

message: Jacob.D.Biamonte (talk) 19:07, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Masaaki Hatsumi's lack of legitamacy 

message: I notice the list of books Hatsumi Soke only includes one that he co-wrote. There are more (for example, look for either Hatsumi Masaaki or Masaaki Hatsumi on Amazon); suggest they be included for completeness. _> MonstaPro:Talk:Contrib. 12:54, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Authorship / accomplishments 

message: I find it amusing that there is more information about Hatsumi on the discussion page than in the entire article. Is the article so short due to disputed content or is because no one has taken the time to expand it? I ask because I may be interested in doing so, but I'm not going to bother if I'm going to have to deal with riots from anti-Bujinkan groups. Livingston 14:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of information 

message: Since the apostolic blessing is given to pretty much anyone who asks for one from the church (typically for weddings, anniversaries, etc.) and framed versions can be commonly purchased in shops around Rome, should this really be considered a special/noteworthy award?  --Stvfetterly (talk) 15:26, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's worth keeping since the announcement in the reference indicates that he is the first Budoka in history to be awarded an Apostolic Blessing.Bruno talk 16:10, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hatsumi claims to have received this in 2001.  The sheer number of Christians involved in martial arts combined with the ease of receiving an apostolic blessing (you pretty much just need to ask for one, and they're commonly purchased in stores or given to people who get married) would lead me to question that statement.  Record of Hatsumi being the first martial artists to receive one is only recorded by Hatsumi's Bujinkan affiliates.--Stvfetterly (talk) 21:30, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In light of the fact that there appear to be no reliable sources that aren't directly connected to Hatsumi's own Bujinkan organization (WP:RS) to indicate that he was in fact the 'first Budoka' in history to be awarded an Apostolic Blessing, I'm going to remove this from the awards section until one can be found.--Stvfetterly (talk) 16:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree about primary sources. jmcw (talk) 23:01, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apostolic Blessing 

message: Sounds pretty exotic... but Honshu is the main Island of Japan.  Would be about as exotic as saying a U.S. martial artist trained on the Island of Manhattan.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 35.8.35.132 (talk) 14:34, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trained on the island of Honshu 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130904191109/http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/pages/bugei-ryuha-daijiten-1978 to http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/pages/bugei-ryuha-daijiten-1978
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Masaaki Hatsumi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100206110333/http://www.bujinkan.co.za/bujinkan_3.php to http://www.bujinkan.co.za/bujinkan_3.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141108222946/http://www.wwmaa.org/memberlist/hof/2001.htm to http://www.wwmaa.org/memberlist/hof/2001.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Until recently, the article had the following paragraph:
:The 1978 edition of the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten includes the full sōke lists for Masaaki Hatsumi's ryūha. It also includes the following statement regarding Togakure-ryu: "genealogy includes embellishments by referring to data and kuden about persons whose existence is based on written materials and traditions in order to appear older than it actually is."
This edit removed the controversial quote in the second sentence. I've taken a look at the url given, and it's in Japanese, so I'm unable to verify it, so I've removed the whole second sentence. That said, coverage should be given to questions about the authenticity of these claims, if they're present in reliable secondary sources. ‑‑YodinT 15:48, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bugei Ryuha Daijiten