Talk:Maqluba

message: I restored this material, adding a source - many many sources exist.  Editor who removed the material appears to misunderstand the use of "signature dish."  It is not a claim that a chef has invented a dish.  A traditional dish like cassoulet or couscous can become the a signature dish for a chef who prepares the dish with special care and becomes associated with the dish.  In this case, a couple of dozen WP:RS books and articles describe the dish as a specialty of Basson's at his restaurant.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:10, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Its also wholly unencyclopedic to include essentially an advertisement for a private restaurant. You have any idea the number of restaurants worldwide that serve maqluba? Or how many of them would call it a signature dish of theirs? This is, I think, an encyclopedia article, and that line violates WP:DUE here. Include it in the article on the restaurant, but including it here is silly. nableezy - 19:49, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

text: Though Im curious if you would use the JPost source to call it a "Palestinian" dish here. nableezy - 19:50, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

text: Though given this I doubt it. nableezy - 19:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nableezy, is there any subject you will not turn into an IP-conflict area? Debresser (talk) 21:41, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Im sorry, what? You mean wiping sources that are inconvenient to my position No, wait, that was you. nableezy - 22:51, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

text: No, due weight here demands that you show that in the context of coverage of maqluba that this restaurant is something that sources make note of. They dont. Some random restaurant in Tel Aviv making a Palestinian dish is not Julia Child lol, get off it. nableezy - 22:51, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[The Eucalyptus]] 

message: I dont see why people think that a dish being Palestinian means it isnt eaten or cooked by Israeli Jews, but regardless it is well sourced that this is a Palestinian dish. As such I specified that with the sources, two of which were already cited in this article. nableezy - 22:56, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: On the other hand This source says it is "a traditional dish of the Arab Levant and Palestine". And this source says it is "a Levantine dish, which Palestinians have made their own" (sound familiar?). The New York Times calls it "a Middle Eastern dish". Debresser (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: None of those contradict that it is Palestinian. They are non-specific. The Shrewd Food cite does not appear to be reliable for the origin of a dish, it is a cookbook. The sources that specify the origin and are reliable say Palestinian. nableezy - 19:54, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Or they are specific, and the claim that the dish is "only" Palestinian is incorrect. Debresser (talk) 22:18, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: None of them, the reliable ones at least, dispute that is in fact Palestinian. Whereas several explicitly say it is. nableezy - 05:13, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

text: Middle Eastern and Levantine do not in any way contradict Palestinian. They are non-specific, and we have rock solid sources that are specific. Your one source for 2 is not reliable, it is a cookbook. We have a book published by a university press that specifically says it is in fact Palestinian. Your claim that they do not have the "academic status to make claims" is bogus, entirely so. By itself, the Ottolenghi, Yotam (2015). "Jerusalem on a Plate". Gastronomica: The Journal of Critical Food Studies. University of California Press source has all the status one needs here. The source you however are relying on for the bogus " Levantine which Palestinians have made their own" is in fact non-academic (this random cookbook), rendering your point an own-goal. I do not know what have can a people that did not exist be the origin of anything is supposed to mean. Doesnt appear to be English. nableezy - 22:07, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

text: For now, I'll let your "NoCal" CIVIL comment slide. As for your other comments, let's start with this: you might want to get clarity as to what "Staple Syrian recipes" means in English. The Kingfisher (talk) 05:15, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It means commonly eaten as part of modern Syrian cuisine. It does not mean it is traditionally Syrian. How about you start with the wholly unreliable sources I raised? nableezy - 06:08, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I'm sure you'll agree that "Maqluba or “upside down” is a Palestinian dish" from this source does not mean that it is "traditionally" Palestinian. Will you be removing that RS? The Kingfisher (talk) 15:48, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, there are other sources for that though (eg . You plan on removing the things you made up in this article and the sources that are not reliable? nableezy - 16:22, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

text: No, Nableezy. It is not called Middle Eastern or Levantine because they are not specific. That is your interpretation / original research. If sources say Middle Eastern or Levantine, it is because they are from the general region. That specifically means that it is not just Palestinian, as you would apparently like it to be. Debresser (talk) 18:52, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Debresser, Levantine does not contradict Palestinian. One is a subset of another. If somebody were to say I am an American they would be correct. If they were to call me a Chicagoan, they would also be correct. Your argument is that American contradicts Chicagoan. It does not, one is more specific than the other. And, again, the best source in this article very specifically calls it a Palestinian dish. I get that some people dislike the idea that Israel has appropriated Palestinian culture and cuisine. Im sorry if that is an uncomfortable topic. It does not however mean we erase the well-sourced fact that this specific dish is a traditional Palestinian dish. nableezy - 19:25, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am fine with it being Palestinian, whether originally or appropriated. What I am not fine with is with the fact that it is generally Levantine is not mentioned directly. Debresser (talk) 22:00, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem mentioning that directly either. nableezy - 22:57, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palestinian 

message: In reply to this edit and the argument in its edit summary:
# The article at present ignores the many sources that call the dish Levantine or Middle Eastern.
# We have already one RS that says it is the other way around: Levantine which Palestinians have made their own.
# As far as I can see, those source do not state specifically that the dish is of Palestinian origin, just call it Palestinian, and so they are no clearer about the origins of the dish than the sources that were removed.
# The sources do not have the academic status needed to make claims regarding origins of anything, and are therefore not to be preferred to the sources that were removed.
# Have can a people that did not exist be the origin of anything? Those who disagree with this argument are invited to ignore it and draw the correct conclusion based on the previous 4.
Especially #1 is an issue that has been bothering me for a long time. On Wikipedia we should neutrally but faithfully represent all opinions, and the article presently does not do so! Debresser (talk) 21:35, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Middle Eastern and Levantine do not in any way contradict Palestinian. They are non-specific, and we have rock solid sources that are specific. Your one source for 2 is not reliable, it is a cookbook. We have a book published by a university press that specifically says it is in fact Palestinian. Your claim that they do not have the "academic status to make claims" is bogus, entirely so. By itself, the Ottolenghi, Yotam (2015). "Jerusalem on a Plate". Gastronomica: The Journal of Critical Food Studies. University of California Press source has all the status one needs here. The source you however are relying on for the bogus " Levantine which Palestinians have made their own" is in fact non-academic (this random cookbook), rendering your point an own-goal. I do not know what have can a people that did not exist be the origin of anything is supposed to mean. Doesnt appear to be English. nableezy - 22:07, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

text: For now, I'll let your "NoCal" CIVIL comment slide. As for your other comments, let's start with this: you might want to get clarity as to what "Staple Syrian recipes" means in English. The Kingfisher (talk) 05:15, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It means commonly eaten as part of modern Syrian cuisine. It does not mean it is traditionally Syrian. How about you start with the wholly unreliable sources I raised? nableezy - 06:08, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I'm sure you'll agree that "Maqluba or “upside down” is a Palestinian dish" from this source does not mean that it is "traditionally" Palestinian. Will you be removing that RS? The Kingfisher (talk) 15:48, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, there are other sources for that though (eg . You plan on removing the things you made up in this article and the sources that are not reliable? nableezy - 16:22, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

text: No, Nableezy. It is not called Middle Eastern or Levantine because they are not specific. That is your interpretation / original research. If sources say Middle Eastern or Levantine, it is because they are from the general region. That specifically means that it is not just Palestinian, as you would apparently like it to be. Debresser (talk) 18:52, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Debresser, Levantine does not contradict Palestinian. One is a subset of another. If somebody were to say I am an American they would be correct. If they were to call me a Chicagoan, they would also be correct. Your argument is that American contradicts Chicagoan. It does not, one is more specific than the other. And, again, the best source in this article very specifically calls it a Palestinian dish. I get that some people dislike the idea that Israel has appropriated Palestinian culture and cuisine. Im sorry if that is an uncomfortable topic. It does not however mean we erase the well-sourced fact that this specific dish is a traditional Palestinian dish. nableezy - 19:25, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am fine with it being Palestinian, whether originally or appropriated. What I am not fine with is with the fact that it is generally Levantine is not mentioned directly. Debresser (talk) 22:00, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem mentioning that directly either. nableezy - 22:57, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Continued 

message: I know that Wikipedia is not a HowTo book, but still, shound't we have at least one website with a recipe on an article about food-stuff? Debresser (talk) 22:20, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont see why, but to the point there are multiple ways of making this, with multiple bases, so I dont know why one recipe would be better than any other. nableezy - 05:13, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  So keep one, by way of example. Debresser (talk) 15:36, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: My point is no one is better than any other. And regardless I dont see why we should have a recipe anyway. But fine Ill add the NYT recipe. nableezy - 20:05, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I observe that the linked recipe published by the NYT is totally blocked by a paywall. I wonder how useful this link really is? Perhaps choose an open access site with a suitable (representative) recipe by another USA based writer, such as https://amiraspantry.com/maqlooba, for example.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pemulwuy (talk • contribs) 05:51, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links removed 

message: The picture used is not a good representation of the recipe, it has to look like a cake. VitoLaham (talk) 20:09, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:19, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2022 

message: This change https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maqluba&diff=prev&oldid=994786294 "The public view of maqluba in Turkey since 2016 is briefly described." adds a paragraph that does not appear to have any basis for being here in my mind. I could only find a few references to this online and they all linked to each other. The references article is paywalled but appears to basically just say that someone had a photo of the dish on their phone and we charged with terrorism.
I propose this edit is removed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.77.137.255 (talk) 19:12, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrelevant "Gulenist delacacy" paragraph 

message: Everyone with half a brain should know why for example new York times or many like that of the media will call this dish middle eastern so they don't upset their bosses and be politically against the mainstream on continuous effort to erase Palestinian identity. But, the shameful thing is to be from certain countries in the middle east who should knowfrom their grand grand parents know that it's in fact authentic Palestinian dish except it gotten so popular that many other Arab countries made it part of their main dishes and by doing so help the zionist cause of erasing anything Palestinian in the world. Iraq makes it for sure and may even make better who knows, but its called "Iraqi maqloobah"  because it's really different than the original. Also, Lebanon, Syria,... Etc all make it because of the so closiness in foods between what is called Levant coutries. But you don't see Palestinian claiming that they invented " kibbi". Just a thought. 
2603:9000:EF00:240D:5C6A:56F2:582B:1BED (talk) 15:00, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's with the big efforts to change the fact it is a Palestinian dish? 

message: I filed a request for an edit of the article. As shown in the previous topic above this one, there might be some discrepancies in the current version of the article. I think some changes may be required to address these issues. I also would like to suggest a paragraph explaining the origin of the dish and to expand the article with sourced material. 
I propose the following introduction to reflect the dependable information we have:
: Maqluba or maqlooba (Arabic: مقلوبة) is a traditional Arab dish that is present in Palestinian, Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Iraqi traditional cuisine, the dish is also found traditionally among the Arab citizens of Israel.
: It consists of meat, rice, and fried vegetables placed in a pot which is flipped upside down when served, hence the name maqluba,  which translates literally as "upside-down."
: The dish goes back centuries with estimations going as far back as the early 12th century or 13th century. 
I propose the following historical background to be added in a different paragraph to reflect the dependable information we have:
: The origin of Maqluba is controversial. The modern-day version of the dish most likely originated in the Levant. One popular story recited in multiple Arabic and non-Arabic sources mentions the Maqloba originating from an ancient earlier dish called Bazanjaniya (the eggplant dish) that had been known in Jordan, Palestine and Lebanon for a long time by then , until the day of the conquest of the city of Jerusalem in the 12th century at the hands of  Saladin al-Ayyubi when to celebrate this victory and conquest, the people of the city of Jerusalem presented food to Saladin and his soldiers as they did on Holy days, it was also customary for the serving food trays to be turned over in front of the guest,  and when Saladin ate the Bazanjaniya (eggplant dish), he liked it very much, so he asked about the name of this dish, describing it as the upside-down dish (and in Arabic Maqloba) and from then on the Bazanjaniya dish was called Maqluba.
: A dish called "Maqloba" also appears in the 13th century work of Muhammad bin Hassan al-Baghdadi , "The book of cooking" , that commemorates old recipes of the Levantine and Iraqi cuisine, and in this book Maqloba is described as fried discs made' chiefly, of red meat. 
:The original version of the modern-day Arab Maqluba was prepared with bulgur since it was widely available while rice was reserved exclusively for the rich. Over time, trade routes improved and rice prices dropped, and the grains quickly replacing bulgur in many Palestinian dishes.
: Today, Maqloba is eaten throughout the Arab world, and is considered one of the most celebrated dishes in the Palestinian cuisine and has been called "the flagship dish of Palestinian cuisine". Maqluba is traditionally served on Fridays, and you will find it served in most homes in the country on the first day of Ramadan, and several more times during the month.
Would you agree with this proposal based on your sources and the sourced I've mentioned before? @SpinnerLaserzthe2nd 
:List of new sources to support the edits:
:English Language sources:
:((for "traditionally among the Arab citizens of Israel." part in introduction))  
:https://www.timesofisrael.com/fattoush-a-hidden-gem-of-coexistence/ 
Credit: this is originally source given by @SpinnerLaserzthe2nd 
:((for historical background paragraph + introduction explaining the cuisine and its history))
:https://asif.org/recipes/rabiya-fresh-fava-bean-maqluba/ 
:https://feedo.blog/maqluba-recipe-maklouba/
:https://embassies.gov.il/chicago/CulturalNews/Our%20Weekly%20Recipe/Pages/Maqluba.aspx
:https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/two-tour-guides-offer-a-new-way-to-see-holy-land-180972503/
:https://www.liverice.com/culinary/2016/1/16/upside-down
:https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190517-saladins-maklouba/
:https://www.middleeasteye.net/discover/how-make-palestinian-maqluba-dine-discover
:Arabic Language Sources:
:(for historical background + introduction paragraph)
:https://www.aljazeera.net/lifestyle/2019/3/8/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%82%D9%84%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D9%83%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%AE%D9%8A%D8%A9
:https://arabicpost.net/%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%81-%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%84/2020/05/08/%D8%B7%D8%A8%D9%82-%D9%85%D9%82%D9%84%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%A9-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B0%D9%86%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%86/
:https://www.facebook.com/510760212281172/posts/2733798886643949
:Hebrew Language Sources:
:(for historical background + introduction)
:https://www.haaretz.co.il/food/recipes/2023-04-20/ty-article-recipe/00000187-9cf2-d50b-a78f-fdf36da90000
:https://food.walla.co.il/item/3592692
:https://www.e-vrit.co.il/Product/21546/%D7%9E%D7%A7%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%91%D7%94
TemporaryProfile00 (talk) 11:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: This proposal is too long, and has too many external links, to be understandable. See WP:Wall of text. Debresser (talk) 16:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed new introduction and History paraghraph

message: This is cultural appropriation and theft. 147.235.197.35 (talk) 19:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maqluba isn't an Israeli dish 

message: "Maqluba or maqlooba (Arabic: مقلوبة) is a traditional Iraqi,[1] Lebanese,[2][3] Palestinian,[4][5][6][7] Jordanian,[8][9] Israeli, and Syrian[10][3] dish"
Please remove "Israeli" because it's cultural appropriation and theft. As a Palestinian who lives under the occupation, I can tell that Maqluba isn't a traditional Israeli dish. Jewish people in Israel don't make this dish, only Palestinians living in Israel make it and we identify as Palestinians. 147.235.197.35 (talk) 19:36, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – DreamRimmer (talk) 15:28, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Already fixed this issue. Makeandtoss (talk) 15:47, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 November 2023 

message: Palestine isn’t a state or country and never been. How it was created in an invented place? As a website who supposed to tell the truth and share correct information you support lies? You have the history of this land on your website, Palestine was never existed therefore telling it was created in Palestine is a lie. 2A00:A040:199:6D30:CD57:61B3:D365:2880 (talk) 21:52, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: Whether you agree with the state of Palestine or not, the region of Palestine has existed for thousands of years. Jamedeus (talk) 22:45, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 March 2024 

message: When the lede mentions that it consists of meat, we should mention it is usually chicken or lamb. Or maybe just usually chicken, I think it's most often chicken with lamb being number two. I've never seen it with beef. Obviously pork is right out.ItsRainingCatsAndDogsAndMen (talk) 14:52, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usually chicken or lamb