Talk:Tool-assisted speedrun

message: *Slashdot | 'Perfect' Zelda NES Speed Record Beaten
*Interview of Phil for September 2005 issue of GEE
*Interview of Bisqwit for September 2005 issue of GEE
*Interview of Bisqwit for GameCritics
*MTV News - Gamers Divided Over Freakish Feats Achieved With Tool-Assisted Speed Runs
*Slashdot | Nonsense with Google's AdSense?
** Huh? What does this link have to do with an encyclopediac article of speedruns? --Bisqwit 11:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some links that should be linked to or otherwise used 

message: Hi, I got your "invitation" to work on this page. I don't know what kind of time I hae this weekend but I had to point one thing that struck me right away by the opening: As such, the makers of these speedruns are not competing in terms of playing skill due to its complete absense. - this seems to imply that the filmmakers have no playing skill at all. This is obviously not the case! I'm going to try and reword it. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 16:01, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it was difficult to word that sentence. I meant to imply that something such as "skill" isn't even relevant, but it's wrong to make it seem like the TAS authors have no skill. Quite the opposite if you look at who started Doom tool-assisted speedrunning. I'm very glad that you're helping out, by the way, since you know a lot about this and you're also probably the most active Wikipedian around here. Maybe you could also shed some light on how active the Japanese speedrun community is. It seems to me that they're pretty enthusiastic about it, since a lot of visitors of Bisqwit's site are Japanese, and they've produced some amazing speedruns (Takeshi's MGS2 run!) —Michiel Sikma, 19:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  To say that tool-assisted runners don't need any skill does no justice. They need to be above-average players of the game they're running to be even able to pull off some of the most difficult tricks that are needed in TASes. Wikipedian06 09:00, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're right, and I never meant to imply this. Tool-assisted speedrunners actually usually are good players. The starters of the Doom tool-assisted speedrun community actually were seasoned veterans from the larger speedrun projects, for example. That's something that should be added in... —Michiel Sikma, 14:35, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Checking In 

message: Wikipedian06, please stop adding in "endurance" in the top paragraph. There's good reason why it's not in; obviously, endurance is a factor when speedrunning which is eliminated with the use of tools, but it's untrue that it's important enough to mention. Afterall, there has never been made a tool-assisted speedrun that's longer than about 3 and a half hours, but there have been gigantic single-segment speedruns (such as the Ocarina of Time run by TSA). It's untrue that one of the main points of tools for tool-assisted speedrunning is to overcome human endurance. —Michiel Sikma, 14:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Endurance 

message: Do we really need a glossary like that? Wouldn't linking to articles describing the subject be better? Amaurea 17:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I intend to write more elaborately about some of the items mentioned in the glossary later, similar to Speedrun, § Common techniques. What I think is that it's probably very useful to keep a quick glossary in the article as well for easy reference; I want to do this for the Speedrun article at some point, too. Whatever the case may be, I personally don't think that it's a good thing to just link to other articles in these cases; some of the techniques don't really need their own article nor should they be explained in a section such as § Common techniques. —Michiel Sikma (Kijken maar niet aanraken) 18:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Glossary 

message: While using a program to automatically search a short optimal path (ie a robot) is cool, it's by no means a common occurrence in tool-assisted speedrunning. There are probably less than 10 runs (from the well over 300) at tasvideos.org where robots have been used in any way. The problem with presenting the robot example image in the introduction is that it can easily give the wrong impression that such programs are used in all or most runs and that it's a very common technique. This may give a rather wrong impression of what tool-assisted speedrunning is. The example image is well worth preserving in the article, but it may be a good idea to move it towards the end of it. In the introduction some other, more representative image could be used. The snapshot of an emulator program (perhaps showing some TAS features) could be a good idea. Wopr 12:53, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Having it at the top makes it seem ubiquitous, which it isn't. Maybe we should put it further down after better explanation of what the phenomenon is all about, while mentioning that this isn't very often done. I'm not going to do it for a while, though... —msikma <user_talk:msikma> 14:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Example image in the introduction 

message: For example, the fastest Super Mario Bros. TAS currently stands at 4'59.6", while the fastest unassisted run stands at 5'00"
Is this according to Twin Galaxies Rules or SDA's? The new speedrun uses the vine glitch, so I don't think it's valid according to TG. --Ouzo 15:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be noted that Twin Galaxies is not the standard for speedrun times in the speedrun article. All times there are from Speed Demos Archive. This is mainly due to the speedrun community being most active at that site, rather than at Twin Galaxies, and because records from Twin Galaxies are not verifiable by a third party. —msikma (user, talk) 22:41, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New SMB Record 

message: A small paragraph about TAS-san was recently removed, because the editor could not find the term on a google search. This is probably because he searched in english. TASさん yields 500k+ results, and so is probably notable. The more recently invented full name, however, gave < 10 hits, and I had never heard of it before. I will therefore put the paragraph back, but with the full name removed for now. Amaurea (talk) 06:38, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  TAS-san 

message: A trick in A Link to the Past allowing for walking through walls has allowed for an extremely short 3'45" TAS, but because the trick is impossible to reproduce in real time using a standard controller, the fastest unassisted run is over an hour long.
There seem to be a couple of problems with what that sentence may imply to someone unfamiliar with what falls under the scope of being a TAS.
There is also a factual problem with the segment; according to this video, the standard controller variant of the glitch can be done in a much shorter time than "over an hour": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGinhCZ2rO8
Additionally, with a non-standard controller, the same technique as used in the tool-assisted run can be executed in real-time, albeit with less precision overall when compared to the final time of TAS. At least, it can be in an emulator. But perhaps it can also be on the console. The particulars of verifying this through the correct WP procedures and sorting out what can, cannot, and should be in this part of the article are just beyond what I felt was my place to do, editing-wise.
76.5.89.160 (talk) 16:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarify/correct statement in "Separation of Unassisted runs" 

message: "Tool-assisted runs are timed by input, i.e. from game power-on to the last input necessary such that the ending scene and/or game credits can not be prevented. Any introductory cutscenes, game-loading screens, and trailing dialogues after the last boss battle (if input is necessary to scroll through the text) are included in the final times."
If I recall correctly, there is indeed several runs that break this 'rule', such as Gimmik! which has the final boss be killed with nearly no input, yet I am certain that if human control took over AFTER the runs input is ended, the viewer can potentially break the run. Flygon (talk) 03:31, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this statement accurate? 

message: The introduction says that a tool-assisted speedrun can do tricks that are impossible or very difficult. That's not true. A tool assisted speedrun lets you do very hard tricks but won't let you do impossible ones or it's not called a TAS but rather uses a gameshark like device. For instance, you can't release 4 bombchus at a time in a TAS of Majora's Mask. Blackbombchu (talk) 14:57, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It means that some of the things done in a TAS are impossible for a human to do because a human can't press the buttons quickly and accurately enough. It doesn't mean that one can do things that the game doesn't allow. Amaurea (talk) 08:12, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serious error in introduction 

message: While I recognize that the BizHawk section was reverted because the person who posted it is a known sock puppet master, that does not invalidate the content of the section.  That particular emulator is a notable achievement, and should probably be mentioned alongside the other emulators.  Someone please consider adding that emulator to the list of emulators.  Invariel (talk) 20:03, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  BizHawk 

message: “You are misunderstanding; there is a difference between the time attack mode featured in some video games and the synonym of "TAS" used years ago when it all started: "timeattack".”
You’re missing the part where that paragraph does not strictly refer to TASing. Try reading it, you’ll see “this term can also be seen in numerous games that have a lowest completion time mode”. I stand by my edit.--ALAKTORN (talk) 23:36, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It does refer to TASing. You have to take into account that it's an item in the glossary section of an article about tool-assisted speedruns. The part you are quoting is only there to give some context as to why "timeattack" is not used nowadays by the English community to refer to TASes. Zeupar (talk) 21:52, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Either remove that phrase, reword it to specify that games use the different “time attack” term, or go back to school.--83.211.186.59 (talk) 21:56, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "timeattack" vs. "time attack" 

message: I am unsure of the statement, times are timed to the last input. Could be relevant to several kinds of games possibly, but I am thinking of racing games in particular. If one is racing toward the final finish line, and is far enough in front not to be overtaken, one could technically stop all input on the last straight before the race is actually finished, stop the timing clock, then allow the car to cruise over the finish line under it's own momentum (so long as one doesn't need input to scroll through text or something after the race). This would mean the time of the "input" itself would be slightly shorter as having stopped before the very end of the race, but the time until actual completion would be slightly longer, as the last straight would not be at full speed. 
Any game with speed and momentum like say sonic one could point the character in the right direction at high speed, stop input and let the character speed toward the end under their own momentum.
Or any game where things happen without constant direct input like Lemmings, or Age of Empires. One could quickly give out all sufficiently needed commands to the units, stop all input and the clock and let the on screen units like horsemen or lemmings carry out their orders after all input has stopped and let them finish on their own and lead to the game becoming completed a period of time after all input has stopped to game completion. As far as I know this never happens in speedruns, or does it??. 
Something as simple as killing a boss with a bomb in a bomberman game could be a difference of a second or two, does the clock stop when the last bomb is laid and input stops, or when the last bomb explodes and the boss is killed?
As far as I always thought time is until game completion, but I don't really know for sure, I only have an interest in watching speedruns, I'm not involved in making them.
Whether I'm right or wrong, the article could clarify this - also is this relevant or not to the regular speedrun parent article?
 Carlwev  16:38, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Last input?

message: I went on the Wiki page of Tool-assisted speedrun precisely to learn the meaning of "RTA", and noticed the initials only appears near the end, unexplained ("Drozdowsky holds the RTA record", etc.). However "real-time" is used a few times.
I eventually found this Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/41dkk9/what_is_rta_timing/ and found the answers informative as they give the origin "real-time attack" but also give some variations on the meaning (including cinematics as opposed to in-game timing, actual play as opposed to TAS). I've also read somewhere else that when the machine's power can affect the game speed, it is important to distinguish real-time count and frames count (the number of frames may even depend on machine power depending on how the game is programmed, but I don't know how they count in this case).
Since "RTA" is used in the article in some places, it may be good to introduce the term at some point before.
(I'm not often editing pages or discussing on them so I don't have an account and cannot monitor this page, so I may not reply quickly. If you think you have a good fix for this, don't wait for my reply and go ahead - or continue the discussion with more active contributors instead)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB14:411:D300:B951:B141:F1FA:14A8 (talk) 23:35, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  TAS/RTA (real-time attack) 

message: Is the TAS scene of Mario Kart Wii notable to be on this article? NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 05:32, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mario Kart Wii 

message: HI minecraft TASer here, it says that TAS is only pre recording controols. That is only  Playback TASing. IN minecraft there is non-playback TASing where inputs are not pre recorderd and are done by a hooman thta can controll ticks. It also say chnage framerate to adjust spped of actions. In minecraft TASing, U change tickrate as the game speperates the logic from the rendering. CuteistCat (talk) 20:56, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dosent make account for minecraft TASing