Talk:Music hall

message: Could someone explain the differences if any between Vaudeville, Variety, and Music Hall? If any? My own knowledge is extremely sketchy....
But I have taken the liberty of adding "see also" links from Vaudeville to Music Hall and vice versa, and a link from Variety to both... Dpbsmith 13:35, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Music Hall, Vaudeville, Variety

message: The royal patents granted at the Restoration were/are absolutely not known as "the Killigrew and Davenant patent", I've never even heard the phrase. I'm fixing up the Restoration bit a little altogether.--Bish (Bosh) 18:46, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: "Killigrew and Davenant patent"

message: I think I succeeded in rescuing this from Votes for Deletion but I'm not a music hall expert and additions to the article would be welcome. By the way, what are Harry Champion's dates? I thought I could find them online in seconds, but I wasn't able to. Dpbsmith (talk) 19:37, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[I'm Henery the Eighth, I am]] 

message: Just wondering why there are no references for this entry? Or a guide to further reading? Maybe this could be rectified? Colin4C 16:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References? 

message: I have never heard of Tin Pan Alley receiving the name from people actually pounding on pans; and such a statement is not backed by the Tin Pan Alley entry which states: The name "Tin Pan Alley" was originally derogatory, a reference to the sound made by many pianos all playing different tunes in this small urban area, producing a cacophony comparable to banging on tin pans.
I would suggest that the statement in this article be revised. 207.69.137.6 03:37, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tin Pan Alley 

message: The article, as stands provides a wide coverage of the subject. There are a few references at the moment, but any article could always do with more! Please feel free to add them. Please feel free to improve the article yourself, or make suggestions here. Thank you. Kbthompson 19:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article nomination 

message: :GA review (see here for criteria)
#It is reasonably well written.
#:a (prose):  b (MoS): 
#It is factually accurate and verifiable.
#:a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
#It is broad in its coverage.
#:a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
#It follows the neutral point of view policy.
#:Fair representation without bias: 
#It is stable.
#:No edit wars etc.: 
#It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
#:a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 
#Overall: 
#:Pass/Fail: </div>
This is a very good article, but large sections don't have any explicit citing, which puts it just at the borderline. If this was fixed, it would be a clear pass, but for now - On hold. 
I suspect any reviewer will pass it once that's fixed, but to speed things up, contact me on my talk page. Adam Cuerden talk 11:47, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that, I've been largely offline for the past couple of days. I realised that the article was deficient in references (although, I've tried to reference 'wot I dun'); there are some sections remaining, probably more about drawing conclusions that statements of fact, I think I know where some of the points were drawn from, but it would help if the originators of the comments actually added the refs. Anyway, I added some more today, and will drop you a line shortly. Kbthompson 18:10, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually a good point. There is a linkage between some of the lists - like extant halls that could be turned into prose. Acts, performers and songs, they're so disparate that they form natural lists. Although we've managed to put a lot of examples in the prose, perhaps we could get away with spinning them off as external lists. Certainly I wouldn't expect to get an FA in that state and I would be the first to admit (and I suspect Col 2nd) that it needs more work to get it to that kind of state. Is it a show stopper for GA? I'll look at what I can do. This is a very broad topic, and ultimately a summary of a wide field. Kbthompson (talk) 01:21, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I just read it again, and the only thing I find surprising is the Tin Pan Alley thing - and that really should be referenced (Col?). I think there are issues with the article (see list thing, above), but I don't think the references are one of them. I think this exercise has been useful, it's validated the work done already and provided some ideas and a roadmap for further improvement. Improvement is a continual process. Kbthompson (talk) 10:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, aye, noone's saying it's perfect, but GA isn't FA, and I think, if the referencing problem's now fixed, we can safely promote. Keep at it, and this could well be FA. Adam Cuerden talk 11:31, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks for your confidence, I've got another FA on the go at the moment, but I guess this could indeed be next on the list. Cheers and thanks for your constructive help. Kbthompson (talk) 11:47, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA review

message: :Image:1867 NationalStandardTheatre.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: -fixed, it's pd-old (1867) Kbthompson (talk) 09:27, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:1867 NationalStandardTheatre.jpg

message: I think this article would benefit from a paragraph or two on the influence of music hall on the Beatles (especially Paul McCartney), Peter Noone, and others.  Some of McCartney's songs would be indistinguishable from music hall if they had traditional instrumentation.  Incidentally, Paul McCartney's father Jim McCartney led a music hall band, called Jim Mac's Jazz Band.
Would somebody like to try to write this section?  -Larry Siegel  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.244.228 (talk) 00:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt if that's a whole section - probably change 'drama, etc' to 'cultural influences' and include a note. That whole section needs to be reorganised and turned into prose. It's difficult with the modern stuff as much is pastiche rather than homage - and there's the issue of where do you stop? To get to FA we're going to need to focus this article more and probably split out some sections as more detailed articles. It's just finding the time to do it. cheers Kbthompson (talk) 08:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

text: That's fine, probably that can eventually be spun off as a separate prose article. Music Hall, in some way, influenced most of modern entertainment - so, it's really going to be difficult to know when to stop. cheers Kbthompson (talk) 10:07, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influence of music hall on later music 

message: The artist who created this painting died in 1942. As a result, his work will not enter public domain until 2112. Paintings and other works of visual art may be used for critical commentary, including images illustrative of a particular technique or school. It may not be used for general illustrative purposes. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:38, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Image:Oldbedford.jpg]]

message: do so now
:OK - just done so for ten minutes. Can I get back to editing now? Grutness...wha? 07:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  talk about benny hill 

message: Should Abraham Thomas Ball (father of former British Prime Minister John Major be included in the list of Music Hall performers?  I don't know how well-known or popular he was other than via his connection to his son.
Peteinterpol (talk) 11:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abraham Thomas Ball 

message: The titles of individual numbers (songs) should be quotated.  The titles of entire shows/programmes should be italicized.  As other editors have done tremendous amounts of work on this article and I have not, I would like for them to like to be the ones to do so or at least assent to this, but it needs to be done nonetheless.  75.216.136.125 (talk) 18:23, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammatical convention 

message: The article name is "Music hall", but the first section is all over the map.  "Music Hall", "music hall", and even "Music hall" (mid sentence).  I'm just trying to improve a link to here from elsewhere. Huw Powell (talk) 00:28, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: For now I am just going to try to decap all the ms and hs so it matches the title. Huw Powell (talk) 00:33, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Huw.  I would be in favour of non-caps when speaking generally eg;  "people enjoyed music hall humour in the 1880s", with caps being used if its within a hall's actual title e.g Britanica Music Hall, or Gatti's Music Hall.  I could be wrong though. -- CassiantoTalk 04:41, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The genre is music hall, which takes place in music halls.  The only time you should use an initial cap is when you are using the name of a particular music hall, in which case it is a proper noun.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:49, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  hall versus Hall 

message: Please stop adding rogue information to this article.  All information needs to be sourced. --CassiantoTalk 17:59, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding unsourced information 

message: Hi - I came here to look up information on provincial music halls, and I was very surprised to find that nearly all of the article concerns London and its suburbs.  I was familiar with Balmbra's Music Hall which began in 1848 and which was immortalised in the Geordie anthem Blaydon Races; despite this having its own Wikipedia article, there is no mention of it or any other provincial music halls in the history section.  Is there someone knowledgeable who could rectify this?  Thanks! Walkerma (talk) 04:31, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the problem is is that the history section within this article is specifically about how the music hall evolved. Music hall entertainment was founded in London and then spread to the provencies.  We could have a line or two about the expansion to the provencies, but to name individual theatres, unless particularly notable, would be irrelevant here. CassiantoTalk 12:38, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your reply.  I think a history shouldn't simply show the origins, but show the development - which includes how its popularity spread.  However, Balmbra's origins and growth are contemporary with many of the other music halls listed in the history section.  Granted, it's a small venue, but it's definitely notable; the mention in Blaydon Races means that many Geordies in 2015 have still heard of the place, and that's also why it has its own article.  But personally I'd be interested to find out how the music hall spread to Bristol, Manchester, Glasgow, etc., and what were the important venues in those places that affected popular culture.  You wouldn't want an article on the 80s-90s acid house/rave scene to only describe the Manchester scene (where it started) and ignore other places - and I think the same applies here.  Anyway - I'd be grateful if you can find anything!  Thanks, Walkerma (talk) 05:32, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Provincial music halls 

message: Anyone interested in Pantomime may wish to comment on the open threads at the Talk page. -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:44, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Pantomime]]

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: Reaching out to those with experience with editing, approving articles relating to Music Hall artists and history for the following draft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Sanford_and_Lyons
Thankyou so much.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Victoriana2022 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sanford and Lyons 

message: The dating of the origins of music hall, with respect to the stylistic origins listed in the infobox, is very problematic. This article's body (unproblematically, I think) suggests that music hall traces it origins to 1830s British pubs and lounge (saloon) bars, becoming popular in the 1850s. Yet that would preclude the possibility that musical hall has origins in the considerably *later* genres of variety show and vaudeville (according to the dating used by those very articles). On top of this, vaudeville is portrayed as being of French origin, subsequently spreading to the US, and variety show with origins in both music hall and vaudeville. Altogether quite contradictory, as I read it.
AW Regueiro (talk) 21:09, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistent dating with respect to stylistic origins