Talk:Athabaskan languages

message: Is there any particular reason that this page was created separately from the original Athabaskan page? It seems to me that it should just redirect to the other page, with any additional information incorporated into that page. They are, as far as I can tell, only variant spellings of each other, and so do not warrant separate pages. If you don't want me to change this back to a redirect, let me know soon.
:Lambda 18:14, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Athabaskan/Athabascan?

message: hi. this list with all dialects/sublangs too long? there is the common problem (here as well as in other families) where dialects have historically been called distinct languages & where distinct languages have been called by the same name. this was my original reason for the inclusion of many dialects. however, it is rather lengthy.
what does someone else think? peace – ishwar  (speak) 19:54, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)
:I'm relatively new to Wikipedia, so this question might look stupid: is it possible to create tree-lists? I mean those with the wrappable branches and subbranches (clicking on the little [+] would unwrap the branch and show the subbranches). If it's not possible here, perhaps we should suggest this feature to the Wiki-developers. What's your opinion? --Pet'usek 12:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I dont believe that this is possible yet. Yes, a good suggestion. – ishwar  (speak) 15:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: list too long?

message: at any rate below is the pruned list
# NORTHERN
## Central Alaska – Yukon
### Deg Xinag 
### Gwich’in 
### Hän
### Holikachuk
### Koyukon
### Tanacross
### Lower Tanana
### Upper Tanana
### Tutchone
### Upper Kushokwin
## Southern Alaskan
### Ahtna
### Dena’ina
## Central British Columbia
### Babine
### Dakelh
### Chilcotin
## Kwalhioqua-Tlatskanai
### Kwalhioqua-Clatskanie
## Northwestern Canada
### Beaver
### Chipewyan
### Dogrib
### Sekani
### Slave (Bearlake, Hare, Mountain, Slavey)
### Tahltan (Tahltan, Kaska, Tagish)
## Sarsi
### Sarsi
## Tsetsaut
### Tsetsaut
# PACIFIC COAST
## California
### Hupa (Chilula, Hupa)
### Mattole-Bear River
### Eel River (Cahto, Lassik, Nongatl, Sinkyone, Wailaki)
## Oregon
### Upper Umpqua
### Rogue River
### Galice-Applegate
### Tolowa
# SOUTHERN
## Plains
### Plains Apache
## Western
### Chiricahua-Mescalero
### Navajo
### Western Apache
## Eastern
### Jicarilla
### Lipan
I agree that this list looks better --Aes1691 (talk) 21:27, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: simpler list

message: Is Proto-Athabaskan really reconstructed as having two vowels? Campbell 1997 says that Krauss and Golla 1981, Krauss 1979, and Cook and Rice 1989 reconstruct i, u, e ([æ]), a ([ɔ]), and "reduced vowels" α, ə, and ʊ. --Whimemsz 02:02, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: hi. no, there are 7 vowels as you say. i just havent finished writing it. if you know it, please add. peace – ishwar  (speak) 16:28, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

text: the vowels are important in the development of tone. it is a bit complicated. a nice book on Athabaskan prosody was published just this year that is useful. i was going to write something one day, but i am sidetracked now. i'll just take out the vowels until then. – ishwar  (speak) 02:09, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well...I look forward to reading about it when you do! Take care, --Whimemsz 02:17, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proto-Athabaskan

message: Having no dictionary of Athabascan languages (nor any other Na-Dene tongues), I cannot do this myself. But could someone possibly make a list of basic vocabulary items (Dolgopolski's 15-, Yakhontov's 35-, Swadesh's 100- or 200-word list) or, at least, give me some information on where I could find an on-line dictionary of any Athabascan language? Thank you very much in advance.
--Pet'usek 12:40, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont believe that there is an online dictionary. (I wish there were.) Look up the work of Michael Krauss & Jeff Leer to see reconstructed forms of Proto-Athabascan, Pre-Proto-Athabascan, and Proto-Athabascan-Eyak. (Pre-Proto-Athabascan is an internally reconstructed language intermediate between Proto-Athabascan and Proto-Athabascan-Eyak.) I dont know how developed Proto-Athabascan-Eyak-Tlingit is — you would have to ask Jeff Leer about that. He does has a large database of forms in manuscript form, but I dont know if it is electronic. – ishwar  (speak) 15:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

text: also look at John Enrico's recent article in Anthro. Ling. & Heinz-Jürgen Pinnow's work. – ishwar  (speak) 20:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparanda

message: There should be a brief mention of the (Athabaskan+Eyak), ((Athabaskan+Eyak)+Tlingit), as well as of the controversial ((Athabaskan+Eyak)+Tlingit)(+Haida) link, I think. Let me add a To-Do list to the talk page - anyone can expand the list or remove individual items. --Pet'usek [petrdothrubisatgmaildotcom] 09:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Genealogical relationships

message: The intro gives the impression that Athabaskan can also refer to a group of indigenous peoples of America. Perhaps the peoples should be split from this page on linguistics? Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 08:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Split peoples with languages?

message: The numbering/hierarchy in a family tree outline needs to be consistent.  The numbering as it is is confusing and thus makes the relationships and hierarchy not very clear. Azalea pomp (talk) 19:04, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Family Tree outline is a mess

message: When was the idea first proposed that Athabaskan/Na-Dene was a more recent migration to America than other families? Was it Greenberg, or did he adopt a preexisting view? kwami (talk) 21:35, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: concept of recent migration

message: I suspect that Kari 1989 refers to:
Kari, James. 1989. Affix Positions and Zones in the Athabaskan Verb Complex: Ahtna and Navajo. International Journal of American Linguistics 55:424-455
I have no idea what "Kari 2009" refers to though.  Does anyone know? Nosliw1 (talk) 17:44, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: There are citations for Kari 2009 & 1989 but no references

message: The page of Kwalhioqua–Tlatskanai language (or Kwalhioqua–Clatskanie) created on the North Frisian wikipedia: frr:Kwalhioqua–Tlatskanai spriak. The page has only on the frr Wikipedia --Kmoksy (talk) 02:58, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kwalhioqua–Tlatskanai language 

message: "The Athabaskan family is the second largest family in North America in terms of number of languages and the number of speakers..." I read this to mean that there are more Athabaskan speakers than English speakers in North America. Surely that is not correct. 66.67.24.71 (talk) 09:14, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The Indo-European family is the largest family in North America in terms of number of speakers (includes English). The Athabaskan family is the second largest. Second largest. —Stephen (talk) 12:18, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of Athabaskan speakers

message: Should the Siletz be mentioned?  c.f.  http://siletz.swarthmore.edu/?q=talking&fields=all&semantic_ids=  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.125.10.243 (talk) 05:36, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's Tillamook. — kwami (talk) 05:58, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Siletz (Oregon) Mention? 

message: The new page for Alaskan Athabascans (a part of Athabascan peoples) in the Turkish Wikipedia (:tr:Alaska Atabaskları) created. --Kmoksy (talk) 21:03, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: there is no such group. this is a language-group, not a cultural/ethnic community. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 00:23, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The pages ATHABASCANS (or ATHABASCAN PEOPLES or ATHABASCAN-SPEAKING PEOPLES) and ALASKAN ATHABASKANS are encyclopaedic! The Cultures of Alaska: 1) Athabascan; 2) Unangax and Alutiiq (Sugpiaq); 3) Yup’ik and Cup’ik; 4) Inupiaq and St. Lawrence Island Yupik; 5) Eyak, Tlingit, Haida and Tsimshian. The Alaskan Athabascans is one of the five cultures of Alaska Natives and encyclopaedic by Ankn.uaf.edu. The page Athabascan peoples is encyclopaedic, just as Algonquian peoples. The page "Athabascans" in the German (:de:Athabasken) and Romanian (:ro:Athabasca (popor)) Wikipedias. --Kmoksy (talk) 09:27, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is the page [[Athabascan peoples]] ? 

message: If the Northern group varies about as much as the entire family, how valid is the subgrouping as presented? --JorisvS (talk) 20:53, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internal classification 

message: The article lists Chilcotin and Nicola as Athapaskan languages of Washington. As far as I know Chilcotin is restricted to BC, and Nicola is a Salishan group (and not a language - though an Athapaskan migrant group did reside with them at one point, long since vanished or assimilated). Is there something here I am missing? 70.75.233.253 (talk) 07:32, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Washington Chilcotin? 

message: A question: "Ata baskan" means "father president" in Turkish, furthermore "ATHABASKAN BRAINSTEM DYSGENESIS SYNDROME" exists in Atabaskans and Turkish people. http://www.omim.org/entry/601536 Did anybody think this?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bilgin adem (talk • contribs) 21:05, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Almost everything in any language means something else in some other language. –Austronesier (talk) 17:23, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Turkic origin?

message: This article is confusing because it uses the Na-Dene languages distribution <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Na-Dene_langs.png> for a map. What's the Athabaskan distribution, though? --Makkachin (talk) 13:16, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Since Tlingit is spoken in a very small area and Eyak is not spoken anymore (and was also spoken in a very small area) the distribution is almost identical. You would just have to remove one of the small dots in Washington State - I am not sure which one.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 17:26, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

text: Coastal Alaskan panhandle and a little bit of northwestern BC is Tlingit territory, so the map is not far off. Megalophias (talk) 20:10, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the answer! :-) --Makkachin (talk) 20:40, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Athabaskan vs Na-Dene distributions 

message: Substituted at 08:30, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I made this post because one of the statements on the page seems rather strange:
As a crude approximation, the differences between Athabaskan languages may be compared to differences between Indo-European languages. Thus, Koyukon and Dena'ina are about as different as French and Spanish, while Koyukon and Gwich'in are as different as English and Italian.
This last sentence does not seems very believable, especially since the whole Athasbaskan family is as old as the Germanic branch, maybe it was more about lexicon but the way it's stated seems like it's more of a reference to genetic distance.
I know there's a citation so I searched a little & I found this : http://www.alaskool.org/language/Athabaskan/Athabas_Prelim.htm
It seems to be all of the book & as you can see there's no mention of a comparison between to two families, as such I don't think this statement should stay on the page...
(I apologize in advance if this is not how I should open a new section, I'm a beginner (as an active user) and I'm not very familiar with the advanced functions of the site)
Rafaël Calado (talk) 05:24, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for pointing this out. The only statement in the source that comes close to the text in our article is here:  It's rather bold and illicit to extrapolate from "Alaskan Athabaskan" to "Athabaskan", and from "European" to "Indo-European", and since the article is about the Athabaskan languages in toto, I will just remove the statement. But the linked text is useful, so I will add in a further reading section. –Austronesier (talk) 16:57, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

text: Hi, thank you for the reply. Indeed it's stated in your link but if I recall correctly I did not find it in mine, in any case it's still the statement in itself which is troubling, it's made as a fact without precisions or development of why this comparison is factual, I think it's challenged by other sources for Athabaskan languages which make it rather...incoherent, still, I understand that the link must be preserved considering its usefulness as an introduction. Anyway, thanks for taking action ;-)
Rafaël Calado (talk) 17:10, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Athabaskan-Indo-European comparison