Talk:Association for Jewish Outreach Programs

message: But many people call it professionals as i will bring sources if asked.--יודל 18:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's irrelevant. If the P in AJOP stands for programs, than that what it is. It doesn't matter if people incorrectly call it professionals. You shouldn't need to be asked for sources. If you have sources, bring them. Yossiea (talk) 18:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is very much indeed relevant because u keep on edit waring about this with other users please stop.--יודל 18:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Let's talk logic for a second. If the site states that the P is for Programs, why would you call it something else? This is supposedly an article about AJOP. Well, AJOP says that the P stands for Programs, not professionals. That's why it's irrelevant what others call it. All that matters is what AJOP stands for. Yossiea (talk) 19:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text:  I have provided a link where a trustee of the org calls like this, and most Jews do call the P for Professionals, thats why it is very much part of the name.--יודל 19:17, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's not part of the name because AJOP doesn't call themselves that. So it's irrelevant. Yossiea (talk) 19:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If most people call an apple an apple even though its owners don't call like this, wikipedia will not be silent, because this is not trivial but fundamental part in explaining the issue at hand for an encyclopedic worthy article. we are not just a dictionary or directory, every subject gets a detailed view of how the world refers to it.--יודל 19:45, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are not making any sense. I have reverted back to the correct version. If you revert it back I will have you warned for 3RR and for adding in nonsense into articles. Yossiea (talk) 19:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I haven't broken any policies, i have brought u a a former board member for over ten years who calls it like this and other sources who do indeed call it like this. And 2 users who u r reverting all the time. Stop acting like your opinion is the same like 2 users.--יודל 20:30, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You have now violated 3RR. Again, it doesn't matter what others call it. It matters what THE ORGANIZATION CALLS IT. Yossiea (talk) 20:42, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Stop lying about me i have not reverted 3 times, and it does matter if most people call it like this, this must be documentd that peaple do call it like this. Because as my sources has noted most people will look for it in this name becaouse it is known with this name--יודל 20:51, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  So create a page called Association of Jewish Outreach Professionals and have it redirected here. That way people who type in the incorrect version would still get to the article. Yossiea (talk) 20:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I already did that. and now it must be explained why they get redirected in this article.--יודל 20:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  1) There is no page like that. 2) There doesn't need to be an explanation. They will see that they were redirected and they will see what the proper name of the org is. Yossiea (talk) 20:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  1) yes there is a page like this2)and there needs to be an explanation that the redirect isn't a mistake, so others should not undo it.--יודל 21:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  When they get redirected they will see why. There is no reason to put it in the lead. Yossiea (talk) 21:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK i agree with u that maybe it makes the lead too condensed, I will try to fix it and put it somewhere else.--יודל 21:11, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: AJOP the P is for programs but commonly refer as professionals

message: Gentleman you are arguing over nothing. When AJOP was founded twenty years ago and was based in New York it was called the "Association for Jewish Outreach Professionals" (looking at some of its own publications from that era) but after it moved to Baltimore about ten years later and was taken over by a new Rabbinic leadership it was renamed the "Association for Jewish Outreach Programs" and in both cases the abbreviation "AJOP" was kept. There is a reason why the organization was originally not called the "Association of Jewish Outreach Professionals" (although many people who came to its conventions thought that it was an organization ... "of" Jewish Outreach Professionals) its name was deliberatly called ..."for" Jewish Outreach Professionals. As for why, when the organiztion relocated to Baltimore it dropped the "Professionals" word and instead introduced the word "Programs" there is some debate as to why the organization's leading rabbis decided to do that. At any rate, as things stand right now, the organization is OFFICIALLY called the Association for Jewish Outreach Programs and that is what the title of this article must be (with all others redirect to that) and to verify this all one needs to do is check with its excellent website http://www.ajop.com/ and whichever way one slices it, either by past name/s or present official ones, its still "AJOP" to its members and to those who who are aware of its existence in the world of Kiruv rechokim. IZAK 03:06, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Past and present names for AJOP

message: OK, and you don't need the AJOP in the lead, if the name is spelled out. It's redundant. I could maybe see it in the article, but it's not stylistically correct to have AJOP and then the name. I will remove them both for now. What I will accept, is in the article a mention that somepeople call it AJOProfessionalls even though AJOP calls themselves AJOPrograms. (Don't forget, the Association is an association of Kiruv programs, not people.)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yossiea (talk • contribs) 21:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so, if all the sources call it first and foremost AJOP this must come in the lead.--יודל 21:25, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, that's not how an encyclopedia works. The name of the organization is in the lead. I will rename it according to Wikistandards, as per IRS and FBIYossiea (talk) 21:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Do u read your links before posting them? both the FBI and the IRS have their initials irs and fbi in the lead.--יודל 21:30, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  And so does this article now. Yossiea (talk) 21:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks.--יודל 21:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Can we call it quits now? Yossiea (talk) 21:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Absolutely never! we must stay alerted further to better this project.--יודל 21:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: AJOP belongs in the lead?

message: I've protected the article in response to an edit war. Please try to reach consensus on this issue on the talk page. If you reach consensus before the 4-day protection period is up, you can ask me to unprotect the article or go to WP:RFPP to request the same. MastCell Talk 23:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IN response to this and other requests, I've unprotected the article. MastCell Talk 03:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much. IZAK 03:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: Please unprotect this article so that I may edit and add to it. I am not a party to this edit war. I do not function on Wikipedia that way. Thank you. IZAK 02:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IN response to this and other requests, I've unprotected the article. MastCell Talk 03:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much. IZAK 03:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unprotect request

message: Rabbi Moshe Weinberger wrote a very important work that was published by AJOP, but an article about him has been nominated for deletion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moshe Weinberger. In order to save the inforamtion about him until such time that either a better article can be written about him or information about him can be used, the pre-deletion article is posted here for the record. Thank you, IZAK 07:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Yidisheryid: Nice to hear from you. Honestly, I just simply copied the article to here and it's "pre- or post- status" is not what interests me. I happen to feel that the loss of the information in this article, as would happen in a delete vote, would be a shame, so in the meantime I posted it here so that some of the information in it can either be applied into the AJOP article in some way, or eventually recreated in a similar article. I am actually doing you a huge favor because you created it and worked on it the most and if this article were to be deleted entirely without any copy to it, then we would all lose. Feel free to keep any information in it updated at all times. I welcome your views on the matter. IZAK 02:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

text: By the way, for the record, had I known about this AfD I would definitely have voted Keep and I would have tried to prove it and to improve the article. It is a shame that too few people got to give input at the time. IZAK 02:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is currently not up for deletion, it was up for deletion in the initial first unsourced version, and the AFD did its purpose of getting it properly sourced and updated, all concerns addressed, and IZAK knows this, why is he bringing this up here now when its long dead is clear. he wants to recall the afd, no problem go ahead open a new AFD but don't cut and paste an whole article here to make a political point, this is called disrupting wikipedia to proof your point, don't do it please--יודל 12:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rabbi [[Moshe Weinberger]] 

message: [File:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Jewish0utreachBookCover.jpg

message: Rabbi Menken was part of AJOP. See here: http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/01/17/the-changing-face-of-kiruv/ Yossiea (talk) 15:29, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't the one to originally put that in. Your claim is WP:OR and is not allowed. Yossiea (talk) 17:51, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dear Yossiea, we dont need sources to delete we need sources to put it there, we don't care who puts it up, it cannot stay there unsourced since its negative info since menken is cotravesial. please do not revert it back without proper sourcing thanks--יודל (talk) 14:02, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I reverted back to my version. I do not know who yossiea770 is and I think he is obviously a vandal only account created to ruin this page we have worked hard on. (I have report that user to ARV.)Yossiea (talk) 16:31, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Rabbi Menken is hardly controversial (at least among those who know how to spell). The article Yossiea talks about says he presented at AJOP, but it doesn't say he worked for AJOP. He should be mentioned on the page because Project Genesis is a very important Kiruv organization. Avigdorim (talk) 01:49, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The issue is not about rabbi menken if he is important or not, we in wikipedia don't decide who is important. the problem is there is no source to this claim, and until a source can be established we should not mention the rabbi.--YY (talk) 11:13, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Although originally constituted as a BBS, Rabbi Yaakov Menken of  Project Genesis prevailed upon AJOP to relaunch AJOPNET as an Electronic mailing list under his direction. Rabbi Menken presented his pioneering work at AJOP's early annual conventions, as was recognized by Rabbi Yitzchok Adlerstein another of AJOP's founding trustees.
Why does it have to go entirely when a simple  or  template would do and then open up a discussion here? IZAK (talk) 10:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because this is disputed long enough and u have never ever brought any source. please remember that disputed stuff must come down, wikipedia usually puts sources and if time goes by and so many different users have asked u please to bring a source to your claim and u failed to apply the facts must come down. we do not write here original stuff, u r enough long here to know that.--YY (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is incorrect. The information is not disputed, it merely doesn't have a print source that we yet know about. Unless you have a valid factual challenge (which, since this is true and known to any AJOP member from 1995, would be hard to produce), the text needs to stay up with  so that someone can find it. Avigdorim (talk) 21:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rabbi Menken and AJOP

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thread_title:  External links modified