Talk:HIV/AIDS/Archive 15

message: The following links discuss the high probabilty that HIV transmission to heterosexual women is the result of anal intercourse with an infected bisexual male. It is also believed that heterosexuals have more anal sex than homosexuals. The risk factors are always higher for receptive sex and receptive anal is the highest. The information comes from both NIH and the International Center for HIV/ AIDs research, University of California, San Fransisco.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=2059146&cmd=showdetailview&indexed=google  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.62.23.202 (talk) 15:04, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First, please do not delete posts that are not yours. Secondly, the two articles above are from 1991 and 1999, very aged in this field. Your facts seem specious because of this, do you have current studies that show what you propose? JoeSmack Talk 19:59, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your point is well taken, although I don't believe we should dismiss these statistics out of hand entirely based on the fact that they were collected in 1999. A more valid question would be "Has NIH changed its opinion since then?" Some of this information is actully present in the article, just not in a way that is readily apparent. Terms like "receptive contact" when applied to heterosexual partners  can only apply to women. And careful examination of the box of transmission risks show vaginal transmission of HIV as 10 per 10,000 acts while anal is 50 per 10,000. My point is that the stigma associated with the subject prevents frank discussion- and can leave those considering anal sex as a form of birth control, a method of retaining "virginity" or for increased pleasure uniformed and at risk- especially in poor or undeveloped regions. From an educational standpoint, the subject is certainly worthy of determining its merit.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.62.23.202 (talk) 20:34, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Really I think that studies that have such broad implications such as this would be replicated and cited more than these. Can you find any kind of follow up or more detailed research? The term 'receptive contact' is accurate in that it is the phrasing used in the source, not an interpretation. The issue of stigma shouldn't be a big one here, Wikipedia is not censored. Also, stay a while, make an account! It really helps in following discussion (you can sign your post btw by ending it with ~~~~.  JoeSmack Talk 20:55, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article states that anal intercourse is 5 times as risky as vaginal. Can you show us a link from a research institution specifically supporting the view that heterosexuals are not contracting the disease this way and how that conclusion was reached?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.62.23.202 (talk) 21:55, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It does state that 'receptive anal intercourse' is five times more risky that 'receptive vaginal intercourse'. It purposely uses these terms because they are orientation neutral. As for the extra research requested, I think you're trying to state that if a study doesn't exist to disprove your suggestion than your suggestion must be true. I understand what you are trying to say, but you need to come up with current and reliable research that supports it. And please, sign your posts with ~~~~. JoeSmack Talk 17:14, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: First discussion from ''Does this article help AIDS patient?''

message: There is a problem with the way HIV transmssion statistics are compiled which, I believe, keeps people at risk. Here's an example: 
Lets suppose that a health practitioner is categorizing transmission risks by surveying HIV positive patients. Out of this group, 50 women state that they engaged in receptive anal intercourse. 10 women state that she only had vaginal intercourse. But, all 60 women are listed as "hetrosexuals that contracted HIV". The makes the term "heterosexual sex" meaningless.
When surveyed as to why they engaged in anal intercourse, the largest number of women (especially in poor areas and among ethnic groups) respond that a condom was not available and they were avoiding pregnancy.In other words, anal sex was chosen BECAUSE there was no condom- the highest risk situation of all. So the question becomes, which of the following statements will save the most lives:
" Never engage in unprotected anal sex " or
" Heterosexuals are contracting HIV "?
 
If NIH, for instance, had determined in 1999 that HIV was transmitted by drinking green tea, every city bus and billboard in America would have a sign saying "Don't drink green tea" for the last 8 years.
But billboards saying "Don't have anal sex" would not be very attractive, so we avoid or deny this issue.
If we took this approach, would HIV tranmission be reduced by 4/5 amoung women? No- it would be many, many times better because vaginal sex with a condom is hundreds of times safer that anal sex without one. Understanding the true, greatest risk was would cause more women around the would to avoid anal sex as a form of birth control.
According to the article, only shared needle drug use, childbirth, or unscreened blood transfusion pose a greater risk than anal sex.
I welcome any other logic based opinion on this subject. Just-unsigned (talk) 14:37, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since Wikipedia functions via verifiability of information rather than speculation, perhaps you could provide some reliable sources making this point? After all, this talk page is for discussion of concrete improvements to the article; it's not a forum for general discussion about HIV/AIDS statistics and transmission. MastCell Talk 17:08, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

text: OK. One of those sources indicates that anal sex does, indeed, transmit HIV, which is reflected in the article. The AmFAR article goes a bit further. What, specifically, would you like to see added to the current article? MastCell Talk 18:03, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

text: "Heterosexual contact" covers a wide range of acts, including anal sex. The statement is accurate as written, but could be amplified using references like the PubMed listing you give above to specify that among heterosexuals, anal sex is a significant means of HIV transmission. MastCell Talk 18:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Second discussion from ''Problems with Compilation'' 

message: Anal sex- 1 in 1300. Vaginal sex- 1 in 100,000 (women).1 in 200,000 (men).
This information needs to be in the article.
http://aids.about.com/od/hivaidsstats/f/infectionrisk.htm
:Please dig up their source, about.com is not an AIDS researcher. JoeSmack Talk 00:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Third discussion from ''New (2007) Link On Risks per act''