Talk:Foveaux Strait

message: In order to get this article up to GA status... we will need  a concise lede that summarizes the content well. I will improve content in the lede today - could be expanded, feel free to add and improve content. Alexeyevitch(talk) 12:11, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede improvements 

message: Hello everyone, I'm worried that the wildlife section isn't well-written and is up to a professional standard, which a good article should have. Someone may trim or improve the content that's there already because it's worth covering. I'll improve this section a bit more since we now have the McClellan 2020 ref. Feel free to help. Alexeyevitch(talk) 05:22, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I will happily have a go at improving this section. Marshelec (talk) 06:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wildlife section 

message: There is still more content worth adding to the body of this article. As one example, more work is needed on Transport, and the impact of Foveaux Strait and the ferry services on the economy of Stewart Island. It is often the case that content in the body needs to be well-developed before it is clear what is worth including in the lead, so it may be best to hold off work on the lead until the current round of expansion is complete. I suggest we plan on reviewing the lead, so that it only covers the most important and notable aspects of the topic. There is useful guidance here: MOS:INTRO. With regards to the length of the lead, there is guidance here: MOS:LEADLENGTH. The article is currently under 2,500 words of readable prose, so the guidance indicates just one or two paragraphs._Marshelec (talk) 03:57, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair point, Marshelec. We also need to make it written up to a professional standard. I will work on the body of this article - wildilfe section could be better. Alexeyevitch(talk) 04:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, but I am also happy to contribute to that section as well, to fulfil my commitment. :) I have been distracted by other things, but might be able to work on this tomorrow. Let's see what we can come up with :)._Marshelec (talk) 06:09, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I appreciate that. This article has had some really good progress this past week. Alexeyevitch(talk) 06:27, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  The lead 

message: It briefly being called Tees Strait, or the proposal to rename it to Kupe Strait (and other renaming proposals?) could perhaps be mentioned. (https://gazetteer.linz.govt.nz/place/20969) toweli (talk) 00:21, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems good, do you think a toponymy section is notable of being included here or merged into the history section? Alexeyevitch(talk) 01:19, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

text: , I'm not sure where Kupe Strait should be mentioned, maybe at the bottom of the history section since that was in 1968? Alexeyevitch(talk) 09:13, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other names 

message: I propose to migrate all detailed content about transport from this article into Stewart Island, leaving just a short summary and link in this article to the new Transport section I propose for the Stewart Island article. I will also migrate some of the content about air services to Invercargill Airport and Stewart Island Flights as appropriate, and some content about ferry services into Bluff Harbour.  The rationale is that the services are fundamental to Stewart Island and the services are typically named Stewart Island or Rakiura. It seems likely that readers would expect to find detailed content about transport in the article about the island, rather than having to link to this article. However, I propose to retain summaries here with links. I will continue to add further content about transport across Foveaux Strait here for the meantime, but please comment on this proposed migration before I go ahead._Marshelec (talk) 19:43, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now expanded the section on the Ferry service, and will soon start on expanding Air services. However, I am keen to get feedback on whether or not to migrate the detailed content of these sections to Stewart Island, leaving only a summary and link in this article. I am uncertain, and would appreciate your input. Thanks _Marshelec (talk) 08:37, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: My opinion is that because the travel is mainly to/from Stewart Island, as you mention, I agree that the more detailed content should be on the Stewart Island article, as you propose. I do however think that it is important that we cover at least some transport in this article though. ―Panamitsu (talk) 08:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

text: I agree with Panamitsu. Detailed coverage at Stewart Island, brief mention here.-Gadfium (talk) 09:06, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Agreed, we need to trim/summarize the content in that section and have a more engaging prose. Alexeyevitch(talk) 09:12, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transport section - proposed migration to other articles 

message: @Alexeyevitch. I think a small section is needed about proposed large scale fish farms off the Stewart Island coast in Foveaux Strait. Here is one source about the application being declined, but there will be lots of other sources, including some we have already cited. I think further proposals for aquaculture are likely. Perhaps a project like this might be pushed through using Fast Track Approvals ?? Would you like to write up a short section - perhaps to go beneath Bluff oyster fishery ? Marshelec (talk) 23:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, this deserves a breif mention but I don't want to go too off-topic per WP:WIAFA, under the Bluff oyster industry seems appropriate. Can you also please help me work on the prose of the article? good progress has been made so far but I feel like it could be a bit more engaging. We've done a good job today on the Fauna section, I will improve the refs this afternoon, adding archives and maybe finding a sligtly better source for one of them. Thanks. Alexeyevitch(talk) 00:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Another closely-related topic that needs some coverage is fishing in Foveaux Strait (other than for oysters) - both commercial and recreational. Here are some sources: , , ,  (marginal). Would you like to write up something ?_Marshelec (talk) 03:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea - I have started work on this section. Alexeyevitch(talk) 05:08, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed fish farm in Foveaux Strait 

message: @Alexeyevitch I have created a Scope section to describe the extent of Foveaux Strait, and added this as the first section. I think it is helpful to have the Toponymy and History sections immediately adjacent because of the connection between the content, and also for Geography to be followed by Sea conditions. However, some small expansion in Geography is needed that gives a bit more background to why the waters are so rough. I will try to find something useful. I looked at article templates for some guidance about section order. There aren't many templates, and most are not particularly relevant, but I did find Template:Article templates/River has History first, then the course of the river. Template:Article templates/Park has Description and then History. Template:Article templates/City has Entymology, then History, then Geography. So there is little consistency. See what you think._Marshelec (talk) 20:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, looks reasonable. Alexeyevitch(talk) 21:43, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order of sections 

message: @Alexeyevitch As is usual with work like this, the most difficult thing when you get to this stage is identifying what is missing. Does it provide the reader with good coverage of the topic (sufficient to clearly meet the criteria in Wikipedia:Good article criteria).? It is easy to critique and review what is written, but much harder to work out what is not there, but should be. At present, I think that the coverage is now close to meeting the GA #3 criteria (hopefully it is not far off from the "comprehensive" standard required for FA. However, the early history section still needs some expansion. More can be taken from Jacomb et al (2010) on the evidence of early Maori occupation around the shorelines, and for sealing and whaling, it would be useful to include some of the major "stations" on the shores of Foveaux Strait, if we can find suitable sources.  I will take a break for a day or two to reflect and see if I can come up with anything else that should be covered._Marshelec (talk) 05:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't able to find any more info in Jacomb et al (2010), this: https://docs.niwa.co.nz/library/public/NIWAis76.pdf is a good source to use for whaling info, I think we already cover the multiracial communities between sealers and Kāi Tahu, I think the prose is engaging in the history section at the moment. I was able to find a Te Ara source that may be useful to you see:https://teara.govt.nz/en/map/20100/whaling-in-foveaux-strait-1820s-to-1840s about the "stations" may be mentioned, seems like whaling is more notable than sealing, since the sealing industry was no longer economically feasible (which is a major fact IMO). I think the American whaleships in the Solanders is paticulary notable and should be kept, I think this article does a good job covereing Māori currently. The prose looks pretty good, but could be tweaked slightly so it's more engaging. Alexeyevitch(talk) 06:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

text: I will analyze this article tomorrow - a bit of copyediting in the history section and I will need to decide where the SS Tararua image is appropriate, currently it might need to be replaced with more relevant media. I plan to attend an edit-a-thon on Saturday and will focus on other articles throughout the day. Hopefully someone is willing to review it soon. Alexeyevitch(talk) 06:43, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I have looked at several other articles about Straits, and identified a gap in this article. We need something brief about shipping, cruise vessels, tankers etc using Foveaux Strait. Here is one source: . With regards to getting a GA review done, this may take a considerable period. My perception is that people volunteering to undertake GA reviews will (understandably) select articles that have been written/nominated by editors who already have a good track record with a substantial number of successful GA nominations, and/or have completed a substantial number of GA reviews. This means that your nominations may be passed over by many potential reviewers because they will see this is your first. I might be wrong in this assumption, but it seems likely to me.  I suggest an alternative to just waiting ... that once we are both satisfied with the state of the article we approach some NZ-based editors individually and ask them if they would be willing. I know of a few that could be tried._Marshelec (talk) 08:06, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion, I am satisfied. And... if you think likewise then I propose we will reach out to some Wikipedians in the near-future. Thanks. Alexeyevitch(talk) 09:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I still have a few small additions in mind, including a sentence or two about shipping through Foveaux Strait. Then it will be time to thoroughly review the lead to ensure that it adequately covers the most important points in the article as a whole, without being overly long. The article is now 3,800 words, and based on MOS:LEADLENGTH, the lead can have three paragraphs. I will have a go at revising the lead over the next few days. Then it will be worthwhile to approach a few editors individually to see if they are willing to volunteer to undertake a GA review._Marshelec (talk) 20:48, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, seems reasonable. Alexeyevitch(talk) 21:19, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Alexeyevitch Look what I just stumbled across after seeing a boundary line mark on a chart ! Part of Foveaux Strait is within the Catlins Coast Marine Mammal Sanctuary, designated under NZ law. Plus, I have also found that the whole of Foveaux Strait, and a large area surrounding Stewart Island has been declared as an Important Marine Mammal Area (IMMA) by the international Marine Mammal Protected Areas Taskforce. . I will prepare some content to include this new information._Marshelec (talk) 05:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's missing ? 

message: The fishing section has the text  I was unsure what "whānau" means in this context, and went to give a clarification, but having looked through the two provided sources, I still do not understand what it means. Does anyone want to provide a clarification? ―Panamitsu (talk) 05:16, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Panamitsu My interpretation of the two sources cited is that the term relates to the groups who are the (collective) owners of Ruapuke Island. This is supported by section 4 of the application document: . I note that including this brief section is a bit marginal because the application has apparently not been decided as yet. Any suggestions for how to clarify this or express it better ? _Marshelec (talk) 06:23, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: That's interesting. I've found this source (which is by Sanford, which probably isn't a good source) which says . As for clarification, I can't immediately think of anything that we could do. ―Panamitsu (talk) 10:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whānau