Talk:Ulrike Meinhof

message: There is barely a mention of her acclaimed journalistic career pre-RAF, when she was one of West Germany's leading feature writers and also was very present on radio and television, working for e.g. WDR and SFB.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.128.66.121 (talk) 12:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone have more information on this? With sources? Zetetic Apparatchik (talk) 06:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you need a source for the fact that I. F. Stone was a journalist? I feel there is such a thing as a f.a.c.t., still it should be easy to find sources for this. The small Peter Brückner thing, 1970s at Wagenbachs Taschen Bücherei is good on BRD society. Ulrike Meinhof' s daughter Bettina Röhl is herself a journalist, with her own blog (She is very anti-raf).--Radh (talk) 06:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is already stated that she was a journalist. (Second sentence sure, but it's the case that the RAF part of her life that's why she's notable.) Her work for konkret is noted. Bambule is noted. If you wish to add information on other publications and works, please, please, please do so. With sources. :) Zetetic Apparatchik (talk) 06:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Journalistic career

message: I seem to remember that there was an article (perhaps in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung) that talked about Meinhof having brain surgery and that it affected her thinking.  I think the theory was that it, in effect, made her a terrorist.  Would we want to mention that here?  I can look up the exact particulars before adding it in, but I wanted to see if anyone would be interested in seeing that here.  Or is that perhaps out of place?  -Maaya 02:19, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, such an addition would be absolutely welcomed! It would be good to make sure it's thoroughly sourced though, as it sounds like it could be a contentious statement.... Dan100 (Talk) 17:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its, not just contentious, its a metaphysical, anti-scientific statement. Besides all, her brain was kept/examined 26 years after her death in order to construct such a theory (not easy to present something metaphysical as scientific diagnosis). Besides all, whoever does an effort to read the biography he will conclude that this time(1962) was not a turning point in her life. There are a lot of other turning points that don't coincide chronologically with that event. Stelarov (talk) 10:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brain Surgery 

message: it says: Mit freundlicher Genehmigung von Bettina Röhl (Tochter von Ulrike Meinhof), but: even if Bettina Röhl ist Ulrike Meinhofs Daughter, it's not up to her to release the photo, because she hasn't taken the photo. Only the photografer could do that. It seem's quite clear a professional photografer has taken the picture. But even if a private 	aficionado has taken the picture, it cant't bee Bettina, who approx 3 years old when the pcture was taken. So please delete the picture on commons. I like Burke's Peerage 08:54, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just added the image back in before reading this but I still think it's right to leave the image on the page until/unless it's deleted. Zetetic Apparatchik 23:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture is not public domain

message: Not much noted is Ulrikes' experimenting with L.S.D. When she 'Tripped' for the first time she plunged into a deep panic attack. The cause of the attack was a terror she had that she would never 'sober up' from the Acid and would be forever in an Alice in Wonderland World. Johnwrd (talk) 03:35, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Citation needed! :) (I'm curious, if true.) Zetetic Apparatchik (talk) 12:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Check Hohnwrd's page with his questions(zombies, ufo and so) and you will understand if this is true... He also states(check below) that by being in prison raf members' health was improved... Yell there is something called logic, some people seem to miss that. Stelarov (talk) 20:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  LSD? 

message: This section seems badly crowbar'd in (and the foreshortened quote is even worse than my translation). If someone wants to try to defend it or suggest a rewrite themselves, then they're welcome to; otherwise I'm going to butcher it myself. (I'll accept that it's not entirely irrelevant but it's hard to give an accurate account of whatever the hell she's trying to get at, and I'm not sure that details of Mahler actually clarify the situation more. My personal reading, probably over-sympathetic I suspect, is that she's trying explain Nazi anti-Semitism away, as it were, as an anti-Capitalist reaction, rather than endorsing anti-Semitism. I'd welcome a discussion of this though, even better with some actual understanding of the German.) Zetetic Apparatchik (talk) 07:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Horst Mahler/Anti-Semitism 

message: A section should clarify the questions about Meinhofs death. I do not like how the text now cites the "official investigation" since this is exactly what people question. How was the autopsy performed? What happened at the crimescene and why do scources conflict?
I just read Ditfurts biography on Meinhof and she heavily disputes that Meinhof was "isolated". The conflict with Ensslin ended "at least two months before her death".
Post52 (talk) 22:39, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Is that a joke, or you are talking seriously? In the second case I would recommend you visiting a psychiatrist. How can a person's health improve by contiously being for over a year in white cells and complete isolation(even during walks in the yard she didn't come in contact with other prisoners)? Holger Meins died under these circumstances. Ulrike had to deal with this for much longer and under even worse circumstances. What about the foreign committees' reports? I guess you didn't even read about them. Not to mention about Ulrike's notes that came out of jail (even the censored ones). I wan't go further cause I think I am wasting my time. Anyone interested can read any serious scientific work on this matter. The cruelest way to kill someone is the psychological torture.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stelarov (talk • contribs) 15:34, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

text: Anybody who reads the stuff the raf "elite" wrote to each other in prison and esp. the way U M was treated should look not much further for reasons  to kill herself.--Radh (talk) 07:32, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: May you read them for us please? I have spent two years of my life researching on ulrike meinhof and I can't find these notes. Maybe you could. Whoever did an effort to study about the Stammheim years will notice that by 1976 the things are starting to getting better, both for raf and Meinhof. World-wide attention on the matter, a lot famous academics and philosophers accusing West germany state for trial-parody and so... Also the hard years of continuous isolation and white cells had passed for Ulrike(well until the trial and publicity was not over). Finally when a person like Ulrike decides to commite suicide, he/she spends some time to write a note (especially if he/she chooses an anniversary date like 9 May!). Stelarov (talk) 10:51, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide disputation 

message: Can we get the original German of the quote? Also, it is incomplete - I recall an earlier part that went ' the worst part is, we are all agreed [on the Holocaust]'.
 A statement like "six million Jews were murdered and carted on to the rubbish dumps of Europe for being that which was maintained of them – Money-Jews" could be the standard far-left claim that the supposed anger of the workers at imperialism, capitalism, etc. was diverted on to the Jews. The rest of the quote tends to support this. Or, it could be a statement that the Jews were more guilty that others of involvement in the system the RAF hated, along the lines of Marx's thought in his "A World Without Jews". The earlier statement of support for the murder of the Israeli atheletes tends to support that.
Meinhof's statement   "Being that which was maintained of them" is ambiguous. Does it mean they truly were what was said of them, or does it mean they were treated as though it were true? The article needs to clarify this. Expert linguists, please weigh in. 77.69.34.203 (talk) 10:22, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Money Jews 

message: Her mother and Renate Riemeck were lovers (says Jutta Ditfurth). (Perhaps not verifiable?). Riemeck ((born in 1920, Peters)) in 1940 was a young NS historian (says D.). ((Peters simply calls her a fellow-student)). In 1946 Ingeborg M. and Renate R. will join the SPD. (Peters: Ingeborg M. started to study after her husband died, finishes it in 1944 (Promotion)) I. M. died in 1949. (U. M. is well educated in the protestant faith, says Peters (does not match Ditfurth's insistance on the NS ideology of M's parents past, but D. always to be handled with care)).
* B. Riemeck is a founder of the Deutsche Friedens Union in 1958, runs for the parliament in 1961. Without any success and leaves politics.
 
* Ulrike Meinhof joined the SPD in 1958 (SDS), the illegal KPD in October, 1958. (She left the SDS in 1959). She has been the first female member of the local SDS!) U. M. was KPD until 1964 ( she left because of dogmatism and East Berlin's heavy handed approach to konkret).
* 1958, 59: M. had contacts with the Hamburg konkret group (a communist front). Jan., 1959: Conflict with the SPD (and with Helmut Schmidt) at the Student's Anti-Atom Congress, Berlin (a East-Berlin hijacked SPD affair). In November, 1961 the spd will throw all sds out. In the SDS she worked for a time with Jürgen Seifert, who was more "right-wing". Still, he and his wife, Monika Seifert helped her later in her illegial existence.
* U. M. left the sds in July. Meinhof was ordered by the kpd to go to Hamburg. She dropped out of university and started work for konkret in October, 1959. She was made Chefredakteur in 1961 ((Peters says 1960)). 1964: Ulrike Meinhof left the kpd, her husband Röhl was thrown out and konkret's financing was finished. But Ulrike Meinhof started working freelance and for well paying german radio and tv (no private radio then).
Meinhof, the journalist was as popular as Rudolf Augstein.
In it's best times before the student protests erupted, konkret sold 20,000, but was much more widely read (Peters, p. 148). I just see that wikipedia has a much much higher circulation for the late 60s.
Jutta Ditfurth,Rudi and Ulrike, Munich: Droemer, 2008.
Butz Peters, Tödlicher Irrtum, Berlin: Argon, 2004--Radh (talk) 19:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are still watching this page, please try to add some of these notes in the article's page. Though the part with the "East Berlin's heavy handed approach to konkret" needs some attention, since, what I understood from Ditfurth's book(the biography), was that the main cause leading a lot of people(including U.M) to leave konkret was the cultural shift (made by Rohl) into a completely postmodern and commercial magazine and the provocatively selfish wastefulness by Rohl(new car, new .. etc ...) even though U.M was indeed dissapointed by East Berlin's heavy approach on konkret(1964). Moreover Rohl was not thrown out but he was left to maintain the magazine by himself (economic support was over) if I recall correctly. If I find time I will try to add the info above. Stelarov (talk) 16:38, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just some notes from recent German books 

message: I did my best to summarize the (most known) counter-arguments as shortly as I could, although it seems a big section at last. To respond proactively to the question "why this section is bigger than the official arguments " etc..., the answer is simple: Because the arguments supporting the murder scenario are much more than the ones supporting the suicide scenario. Anyone who knows about other facts, opinions, or anything supporting the official scenario can write them down, under: "Imprisonment and death" or anywhere he thinks they fit, even though I think there aren't. Stelarov (talk) 18:49, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the phrase "rather than her RAF comrades" should be removed from "... believe that she was murdered by the authorities, rather than her RAF comrades." There is no support in the article for it. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:04, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide disputation (Section in article page) 

message: I would like to write some "quotes" (well maybe even long ones), other people said about Meinhof. Should I put it here or in http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ulrike_Meinhof where Meinhof's own quotes also are?
:: Well since the talk page seems somehow inactive the last years, I took an initiative and wrote the sayings(quotes) in the wikipedia article itself, as it is the case with the german wikipedia page, and also because I believe they are indicative in order to be possible for the readers to also view (even abstractly through others view) the other side of the coin Stelarov (talk) 19:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Spelling "Wienke Zitzlaff" is apparently difficult.94.191.150.248 (talk) 09:00, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wienke Zitzlaff 

message: 'Compatriot' means 'someone from the same country'. Ensslin was German as were most of the people concerned in this story - I wonder if the original editor didn't mean 'colleague' or 'confederate'? Guyal of Sfere (talk) 22:09, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two women compatriots of Ensslin's 

message: "A Letter from a Prisoner in Death Row" (Brief einer Gefangenen aus dem Toten Trakt).
No, "toter Trakt" doesn't mean "death row", even though that's the literal translation. It means "isolation", as in an isolated section of a prison. 2A02:AA1:1007:7AF:98F5:811F:2A93:7ACF (talk) 16:46, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toter Trakt