Talk:History of the Jews in Egypt

message: The link at the end of the following sentence links to the wrong Philadelphus article.
"Josephus also claims that, soon after, these 120,000 captives were freed of their bondage by Philadelphus."
It's way beyond my knowledge to attempt to fix it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.149.68 (talk) 19:55, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Philadelphus

message: It should not be relied upon as such. Giving "facts" about history with citations to Bible verses is not appropriate.--Funnyguy555 08:31, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know your comment was years ago, but I still want to counter your statement for the record. While the Bible is not a history book in the modern scholarly sense - in that an exact and objective account of history is its primary intent - it does contain and speak to a great deal of history. Perhaps your reservation comes from the fact that the Bible is a religious text? I would argue that a primary source is a primary source, whether it is a religious text or a copy of a business transaction. Or perhaps you are concerned about subjectivity and bias in the Bible? It has to be admitted that the Bible is not entirely without bias, but even the historical accounts of ancient historians are not without some degree of bias, whether it is Herodotus, Pliny, Tacitus, or Josephus. The Bible is an historical text, and references to relevant sections of the Bible as primary source material are as appropriate as any other primary source references in a discussion of history. Silmalel link=User_talk:Silmalel 03:17, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I know your comment was years ago, but I still want to counter your statement for the record because I very much disagree with you. The Bible is not a history book in the modern scholarly sense - it is not an exact and objective account of history in its primary intent and while it does contain and speak to a great deal of history that must be interpreted extremely carefully. Perhaps your objection comes from the fact that the Bible is a religious text? I would argue that a primary source is a primary source, whether it is a religious text or a copy of a business transaction, and be subject to exactly the same levels of analysis of intent, context, propaganda and biases both intentional and unintentional. Doing so to the Bible reveals an impressive, layered multitude of levels of composition, by various authors and groups, with various intentions and worldviews. And as with all historical documents it must be confronted repeatedly with reanalysis, especially in light of improved archaeological understanding. The Bible is an historical text, and references to relevant sections of the Bible as primary source material are as appropriate as any other primary source references in a discussion of history, and should be treated with precisely the same suspicion as any other text. The likes of Herodotus, Pliny, Tacitus and Josephus make many statements that are supported by archaeology and by other contemporary witnesses. This is true of parts of the Bible. It is categorically not the case for other parts of the Bible - some of which are within paragraphs of "confirmed" segments. Perhaps you're very sensitive to the Bible being treated in the same manner as any other primary source? 86.140.164.14 (talk) 21:22, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: The Bible is not a historical text

message: The modern period is written as a Zionist tract,i.e. oppression rising and the need to emigrate to Israel, ignoring the complex identities within the Egyptian Jewish communities. The use of a collective 'the Jews of Egypt' simply doesn't hold water. I suggest one harvest Gudrun Krämer's The Jews in Modern Egypt, 1914–1952, and Joel Beilin's book on the diaspora there, with primary use of the former.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nishidani (talk • contribs) 14:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern Period 

message: I see no mention of the fact that the Jewish community in Roman Egypt was subject to one of the most ferocious massacres, in which the Roman army slaughtered some 100,000 Jews in the late Ist early 2nd century. That is a fundamental fact and should be remarked on. In some detail.Nishidani 14:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roman Period 

message: The article states the Alexandria was again attacked by "Franks" in 1416.  The Franks were a Germanic tribe that settled in parts of France during late antiquity.  They, or their French ancestors, certainly were not still around in 1416 attacking Egypt.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.130.226.220 (talk) 19:03, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In the Middle Ages, Muslims called Western Europe Frangistan ("the land of the Franks") and called all Western Europeans, regardless of where they were from "Franks", which explains why King Richard Cœur de Lion of England is described as a "Frankish" king in the Muslim sources (through the fact that Richard spoke French as his first language also helped) . As the Frankish kingdom, from where the name France originated, was the most powerful state in Western Europe the 8th century AD, which is the origin of the name Frangistan. I agree that the Franks were not around in 1416, but I think somebody is just using the term from a Muslim source, which would have called anybody from the West "Franks". Note also the Muslims always called the four states first set up in the Middle East after the First Crusade the "Frankish" states, from that might also been a reference to the fact that most of the knights on the First Crusade were French and French was the language spoken in the Kingdom of Jerusalem,  Principality of Antioch, the County of Tripoli and the County of Edessa. Even today, Iranians use the term "Frankish" to describe people from the West, so if an Iranian is wearing Western clothing, then he or she is dressed in the "Frankish" style. I hope this clears matters up. Cheers!--A.S. Brown (talk) 10:32, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attacked by Franks??? 

message: http://ohr.edu/838  Not even recent.
http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://worldview3.50webs.com/exodus.html lots of references in the page itself, paragraph by paragraph.
This open hateful derision of the Torah as historically accurate undermines the credibility and perceived fairness of Wikipedia. If Wiki wants to be taken seriously this kind of open prejudice has to go.
108.132.224.7 (talk) 01:38, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical evidence for the Exodus slave narrative 

message: I'm not a researcher of the subject, so I really don't know, but let me ask:
This publication has no serious value on this matter?
http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Israel-Sinai-Authenticity-Wilderness/dp/0199731691
Please, do copy my e-mail in any comments you have: samuelsiqueira@gmail.com  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.208.148.26 (talk) 14:42, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The short answer, given you specified "serious value", is "no". 86.140.164.14 (talk) 21:25, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "more than a century of archaeological research has discovered nothing which could support its narrative elements" 

message: Please see discussion at Talk:Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries#Overlap_with_.22History_of_the_Jews_in....22_articles. Oncenawhile (talk) 10:09, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overlap with Jewish exodus article 

message: 213.109.230.96 (talk) 04:56, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  How come Jews have settled in Egypt seeing that Deut. 17:16 forbids it? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Can we please rename it History of Jewish People in Egypt? It seems more respectful and pc. Jew can be a derogatory word if used bitterly.Littlepersonlavalamp (talk) 18:28, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  permission to rename article 

message: In the article "The History of Jews in Egypt" I intend to add more in depth information on the population size of Egyptian Jews and the forms of self-governance amongst the Jews. I will also add the information of the different positions Jews held in government. I will use The Jews of Arab Lands: A History and Sourcebook by Norman A. Stillman as a secondary source. Stillman is a credible source because he is a professor that is specialized in the culture of the Jewish and Islamic people and is knowledgeable about their history. I will not delete present information, but I will add more information about the Jewish Egyptians that isn’t already expressed. On this talk page, please let me know if anyone wants to comment on these changes.Maddyrehling48 (talk) 00:07, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Editing History of the Jews in Egypt

message: Hi, I am a student (Daniel1095) who is making it a project to fix this section of the article. I agree with the previous comments at least partially in that this article does not reference a sufficient number of non-bias sources. I'm not quite sure what anti-semitism has to do with this article, but I mainly want to focus on what happened to Jews under mamluke rule and where we can still see some of its influence today. 
In order to accomplish this, I believe it will require rewriting this section. I start with discussing how the Mamlukes rose up in a time of chaos in the mid 13th century and began to reinstitute control through institutionalizing Sufism. Next, I’d discuss how Jews came into contact and reacted to Sufi mysticism. Then I would tie that to how mystic ideas would influence Judaism to the point that it would trigger the creation of a new sect, Pietists. I would then explore the similarities between pietists and Sufi practices and beliefs. I would also make a point in discussing the rich literary history of the pietist movement as well as details of the leaders that would make it grow rapidly. In addition to writing about the development of the pietist, I would definitely mention Jewish opposition to this new movement and finally its demise in the subsequent centuries. Lastly, I would end on the legacy of Sufism on Judaism today especially in the Karaite community where many pietist traditions still hold true.  
Here is the main source I will be working with: Fenton, Paul. Muslim-Jewish Relations in the Middle Islamic Period. Bonn University Press. 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel1095  (talk • contribs)   — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Weller (talk • contribs) 17:04, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewriting the Mamluke section

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 05:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The discussion was closed, so no further point in this. --Eliyahu S Talk 15:59, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: As presently written, the article claims that Abraham Maimonides wrote The Guide for the Perplexed when in fact it was his father who was the author, as the #Works subsection in his page makes clear. This needs more correction than I have time to give it now, so I've slapped a dubious tag on it. --Eliyahu S Talk 15:50, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abraham Maimonides and [[The Guide for the Perplexed]] 

message: I am wondering if we should add a "Jews in Ancient Egypt" section if for no other reason that someone who looks this article up might expect it to be here. I'm thinking the section might just be a little bit of text stating there's no hard evidence for Jews in particular being in Egypt, though many semitic groups were in Egypt during the Middle and New kingdoms, with a redirect to the article on the Exodus. OrmanRedwood (talk) 15:53, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add a "Jews in Ancient Egypt" section? 

message: I feel like the quote by Cohen on Hebrews in Egypt isn’t very appropriate for the article. It’s not clear in the quote itself that he means that there were no Hebrews in Egypt, as the article seems to imply, but specifically that MOST Hebrews were of native Canaanite stock who's ancestors were not from Egypt. Since the quote is unclear on what Cohen actually meant, I don’t think it’s a good one to cite for his position. 
Also the second half of the quote just seems irrelevant. While it may be a somewhat common misconception that Hebrews built the pyramids, that’s not actually what the Hebrew Bible states. It’s not relevant to the topic of the subsection about the Biblical account of Hebrews in Egypt. 2603:7080:1E3A:5658:810E:9312:74C5:7D8B (talk) 00:12, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appropriateness of Shaye JD Cohen’s comments on Hebrews in Egypt