Talk:Prometheus (Stargate)

message: I'm thinking out loud here...but, why is this page even titled BC-303?  It seems to me that it should be entitled "Prometheus", as the Daedalus page is.  Is there some outrageous reason I'm missing? -b 04:02, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The ship is usually refered to as Prometheus rather than X-303 or BC-303. And since it's the only ship of its kind, there's no point in centering the article around the class of ship. --84.156.182.167 16:32, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Same here. I've moved the article. Bryan 16:41, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does Prometheus deserve it's own page? 

message: The show Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis are following normal military naming conventions when it comes to the technologies they develope.  The X-302 became the F-302.  The X-303 became the BC-303.  The BC-303 series is following US Navy naming conventions.  When a ship class undergoes significant structural and weapons technology improvements, it considered part of the same class of ship, but a new Flight.  Hence being called Flight II.  I provided information to show this.  This is not original research, it is the way the US Navy conducts naming conventions.  If we follow US Airforce, it goes a different route.  If the prototype experpimental model is the same as the production model, it goes from X-5 to F-5.  However, when changes occur between the prototype to the production model, it goes X-5 to F-5A.  This occured with the F-22 raptor.  The YF-22 is now the F-22A.  For the Prometheus class this means the production run model (represented by the Daedalus) would be listed as BC-303A.  This is not original research.  This is following the identification conventions set down by the United States Military.  If this is original research, then the bulk of Wikipedia (this article included) violates this rule and all should be deleted.  Anyway, since the Prometheus is apparently following US Navy conventions (hence being called a Battle Cruiser), the BC-303 Flight II is the proper designation.  The differences between the Prometheus and the Daedalus are both visual and stated by characters in series.  This is the exact same type of information that already makes up this article.  Some might call what I've done speculation, but given the military accuracy that the Stargate series has strived for, the choice for designation of the Daedalus is limited.
Alyeska 06:40, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: So you admit it is speculation then? Why not just wait until an actual episode establishes the information you want to add? AlistairMcMillan 12:34, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
Its called an informed hypothesis.  Military designation conventions tell us the Daedalus and future Prometheus class ships can be designated only two ways.  I didn't state the Deadalus would be labeled as such.  That would be baseless speculation.  I stated the Daedalus could be labeled as such.  That is an informed statement, and I provided evidence in article to back that up. Alyeska 17:24, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: We have a policy (Wikipedia:No original research) that prohibits this sort of thing. It's fine to have an article discussing U.S. military vehicle model nomenclature, and it's fine to have an article on a class of fictional spacecraft from a popular television show, but since it is a fictional show there's no guarantee that it follows real military guidelines until we actually see evidence of that on screen or from some other related source. Is there an article in Wikipedia on military nomenclature that discusses these issues? If so, perhaps one could insert a link to it from here to allow the reader to make these hypothesese themselves if they choose. Bryan 23:26, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: But it's still speculation with regards to the show. Explicitly labelling it as speculation doesn't give it an exemption to the no original research rule. Bryan 03:44, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daedalus Classification 

message: We know that the X-303 was the prototype for the BC-303 class, but it's canon (SG-1 ep. 904, "The Ties That Bind") that the Daedalus is a BC-304 class. So would the Prometheus still be the X-303 or is it the only BC-303 now that that class has been superseded? My knowledge of these things is sadly nil, but I think the article should include the BC-304 information and whatever implications it has for the Prometheus's designation.
:Was it actually called the 'BC-304'? The only reference I remember is the senator talking about wanting to build more 'Daedalus-class ships.' slab 04:39, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There was no mention in "The Ties That Bind" that the Daedalus had been classified as a BC-304.
The Prometheus started out as an experimental ship and before it was officaly comissioned it would be the X-303.  However, once it entered offical service it would be redesignated the BC-303 because its now an active duty US Space Warship.  The Daedalus was not stated to be a BC-304 class ship, but its the only logical number for the ship.  The Daedalus now represents a new class of ship.  Ships are designated and named.  Neither of these can conflict with other active duty ships.  The Prometheus is a BC-303.  The Daedalus would be the BC-304 by its offical designation.  Example, USS Los Angeles is a SSN 688 while the next ship of the class is the SSN 689.  Whether or not the Daedalus is part of the same class of ship, it is designated as the BC-304.  However we know the Daedalus now represents a new class of ship.  So this new class of ship will be designated on the lead ship of the class.  Daedalus class, BC-304. Alyeska 06:07, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

text: If it hasn't actually been named a BC-304 in a verifiable source, then we can't say here on Wikipedia that it's a BC-304, or even speculate that it might me. I've brought related issues up before earlier on this talk page, they look like they apply to this too. Bryan 06:59, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

text: "The Daedalus was not stated to be a BC-304 class ship." Really, that should be all I need to rest my case here. Stargate has generally been following the military's guidelines on these things but it's a fictional show and so in the final analysis the only things we really know about it are the things that appeared on screen. If you want to speculate you have to at the very least indicate that it is speculation and describe what source material you're working from. Bryan 14:05, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

text: So why not wait until they actually give it that number in the show? Simply repeating your opinion over and over isn't going to make it any less original research. Bryan 05:04, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I suppose you could say something like "The Daedalus' predecessor was the X-303 Prometheus. Real-life military tradition would suggest that Daedalus should therefore have the designation BC-304, but this has not been established on the show yet." All of that's factual, it combines information from two different sources, and it doesn't make any conclusions on the reader's behalf. Saying "in accordance with real-life military tradition the Daedalus is the BC-304", on the other hand, is original research because we're creating a new piece of information that didn't exist before. I still think this is a rather pointlessly nitpicky issue to be putting in the article, but I guess considering some of the stuff I've done myself on other articles I shouldn't complain too strenuously based only on that. :) Bryan 15:41, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Actually, now that I think of it, where as the BC- prefix been used in the show? The article here says that the Prometheus was "promoted" from X-303 to BC-303, but doesn't give an episode reference. It also states with certainty that the Daedalus is a new class if ship, but given that Prometheus was just an X- series prototype I don't see why that's necessarily true - perhaps they decided to leave Prometheus as X-303 and started BC-303 production with the Daedalus. If I get some time tonight I'll try looking for references, but if anyone knows offhand which episodes this information comes from please add it in. Bryan 15:41, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

text: "deduction" is original research. Insert another round of the same argument here. Bryan 02:12, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

text: This does not follow. Bryan 08:16, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

text: I take it this means you've found a reference? Please provide. I'm guessing Flesh and Blood, based on the context in Daedalus class battlecruiser, but since that hasn't aired yet I can't check it directly so a secondary reference would be nice until then. Bryan 02:16, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, but in which episode? I want to cite this. Bryan 16:39, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In Crusade (9x19) Xornok  14:38, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  BC-303 never existed? 

message: 81.10.141.72 added a bunch of technical data that seems dubious to me (I removed a similar set he added to Ring Transporter for reasons described on the talk page there). Anyone know where it came from? Bryan 08:16, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In the sixth season episode "Prometheus", Carter says expressly that the ship's maximum sublight velocity is 110,000 miles per second. On the other hand, in the very next episode ("Unnatural Selection"), Thor says that the Asgard have improved the ship's engines to their maximum potential. Whether or not this means that the Prometheus has some higher top speed at that point is impossible to say. (However, in Stargate Atlantis's "The Return, Part One", Colonel Caldwell states the same figure of 110,000 mi/s as the maximum sublight speed of the Daedalus, which may or may not be of any value.) The Mink Ermine Fox 08:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Technical data 

message: We can make some fair assumptions as to what the weapon is and isn't.  The weapon almost certainly isn't a railgun or missile because such weapons exist on the Daedalus and would violate the no Asgard weapon rule.  All we know is that the Asgard installed weapons designed by them.  This indicates special weapons, almost certainly energy in nature since that is all they ever have built.  I have amended the entries to indicate its a Asgard designed weapon and make no assumptions of exactly what it is.
We know this weapon was installed thanks to Memento.  At the time of that episode the only Earth weapons on board were Missiles and point defend guns.  Neither need charging.  But Colonel Ronson mentions charging some main weapon.
So what happened to this weapon?  Well the Prometheus was using the Naquadriah reactor to power ship systems, but that was lost.  Later they send the Prometheus an Alkesh reactor and hyperspace core.  This was all Prometheus had to power its systems for some time and it likely had to use all available power for shields and couldn't manage the Asgard weapon.  Then the Asgard come and offer an Asgard hyperspace generator (almost certainly power generator as part of it).  Bet you with the Goa'uld being much less of an apparent threat at this time (Anubis was gone) and constant Asgard help in the Daedalus, they pulled their weapon system from the Prometheus. 
PS.  Stargate-Tech is my website, well I co-run it with Chris O'Farrell. Alyeska 21:36, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: True, I've taken that out too. Bryan 05:42, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I was watching that episode just a few weeks back and had the same thought when I hit that scene. But fortunately I was watching the DVD, and so was able to step through frame by frame. The shot is made at timecode 41:37 and with the video slowed way down and blown up fullscreen it's clear to me that there's a missile at the leading end of the yellow streak that goes from Prometheus to Alkesh. The yellow streak is rocket exhaust, not energy weapon fire. Bryan 05:57, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Asgard Weapon Continued

message: There's apparently some dispute over what the episode made explicit or left unsaid about the end result of the most recent Rand/Caledonian war. Here's Daniel's complete description of the situation from timecode 42:00 in Ethos:
Daniel: "Soon after we left the talks broke down." Mitchel: "And?" Daniel: "And we've been unable to make contact with General Landry had the Daedalus rerouted on its way back from Atlantis [Daniel seems to have switched seamlessly from one sentence into another different one here, I transcribed word-for-word]. It seems the Caledonians weren't content to just leave their fair planet." Mitchel: "They launched an attack." Daniel: "And Rand responded. The Stargate is presumed buried in the rubble." Mitchel: "Rough day." Daniel: "Rough day." [Fade to black, credits]
So as far as I can see, any solid statement that they annihilated each other is unwarranted - there's no indication of any sort about whether there are survivors, just that they attacked each other and made a sufficient mess that the Stargate is now lost. Bryan 16:12, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Those are possibilities, sure, but the "no original research" policy is pretty clear on this sort of thing; we shouldn't be mentioning possibilities that we've come up with ourselves at all. Wikipedia:No original research goes into detail. This also applies to the subject of Asgard weaponry which I also removed some original research on from the article. Original speculation is very easy to let slip into articles about things like this that are made up to begin with. Bryan 00:37, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The end of Ethon 

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thread_title: Stargateproject

message: I just read here that someone's gone and thrown in all the commanders of the Prometheus into a single chapter. They should actually be elabourated on in their indivudual sections. Colonel Ronson and Major Gantt were only on the ship during it's shakedown cruise (Both out and back in Memento and Grace, respectivly). Hammond commanded her for only two missions and Pendergast took over till the ship blew up. They should be put into the respective sections, rather then thrown into a single ambiguous statement. - Count23 14:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Prometheus Commanders

message: What episode was it destroyed? --72.202.150.92 01:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode listing? 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Sg1-s09e15-0.jpg

message: y do the hanger bays of the ship light up blue when its in hyperspace?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.191.136.231 (talk) 23:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  hanger bays light up?