Talk:David Norris (politician)

message: The article suggests that Stephen Fry endorsed Norris's campaign following Norris's re-entry. This is not true. This endorsement occured before Norris withdrew.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.118.30 (talk) 23:08, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit Needed

message: No mention of his comments on older homosexuals "mentoring" younger (possibly minor) ones? How odd. Biography or hagiography? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.46.237.204 (talk • contribs) 21:54 8 March 2007 (UTC)
:Wikipedia allows anyone, including you, to mention anything on a page, as long as you provide reference.  You could add the 'mentoring' comment if you can provide a ref.  If you find confirmation of his intent to refer to minors, you can include that too, but 'possibly' is until then, just your own interpretation and couldn't be added without a ref.  If he did refer to minors, the WP mention would need to be qualified to idenitfy if he had a nefarious intent or not, given the obvious possibility of different interpretations of that alleged remark.--Rye1967 01:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Having read the comment, he didn't say anything about older homosexuals mentoring minors, just younger homosexuals. But that's neither here nor there. I agree with Rye1967: include the quote if you can find it, and if it means what you think it means. If not, please don't just make snarky comments but work to improve the site. Lexo (talk) 23:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: I removed the bit that said Norris was the first English Literature and Language Foundation Scholar of Trinity College. If you look at these search results you'll see that there was someone before him. (I checked elsewhere, and that guy was also a Foundation Scholar.)
Ian Cheese (talk) 13:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scholar 

message: How reliable a source is http://sites.google.com/site/norrisarticle/ - used as a reference for the Magill article?  It seems to be a "home made" site which is pretty much a copyright violation? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 20:14, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure, but I've found a scan of the original article: page 1, page 2, page 3. ~Asarlaí 20:18, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Which would also seem to be a copyright violation, according to their T&Cs? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 21:52, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It is perfectly reasonable to quote any Magill article and anyone without a back issue can read it or any other Magill and make notes at the Gilbert Library at 138/142 Pearse Street in Dublin. — O'Dea (talk) 07:15, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Very true - I'm not saying the Magill article shouldn't be quoted or referred to, just that the pages it's currently available online at appear to be copyright violations, which shouldn't be linked to.  No problem replacing the links with just the issue/date. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 15:07, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Since those images are online, copyrighted or not, the photographed or scanned text can be quoted in the article to spare people in New Zealand buying plane tickets to fly to Ireland to use the Gilbert Library, then they can use a citation like: "The Free Radical" by Helen Lucy Burke, Magill magazine pp. 34–36, January 2002. — O'Dea (talk) 20:40, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP:RS? 

message: Although I admire the subject of this article and think he would make a good president, I notice an attempt by someone to slant the article in the subject's favour by misrepresenting the content of a citation. Article says 'Fine Gael announced its intention to obstruct the nomination of Norris for the presidency in any way that it can.' Citation is to a newspaper article in which the only reference to Fine Gael is 'However, Fine Gael has instructed its councillors to block the nomination of Mr Norris.' That's not quite the same thing as Fine Gael declaring all-out, by-any-means-necessary war on the Norris campaign. Since our first priority must be the NPOV of Wikipedia, I will be changing the sentence in the article to reflect Fine Gael's actual policy, as opposed to what whoever wrote the original sentence would have liked it to be. Lexo (talk) 23:54, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fine Gael's attitude/citation problem 

message: I inserted the following in a trivia section which was (rightly) removed: "Norris' bid for the Presidency has been praised in musical form by Paul Woodfull, in his alter ego of Republican balladeer 'Ding Dong Denny O'Reilly', with the song A Noble Queen.A Noble Queen, by Ding Dong Denny O'Reilly. Retrieved 15-06-2011."  I reinserted it in the 'Political career' section.  User:Snappy reverted, saying links to YouTube aren't allowed.  Actually, they are, and the song appears to have been uploaded by Woodfull himself, so there are no copyright problems.  Do people think it's worthy of inclusion, or not? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 21:23, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What is its relevance? Apart from promoting Paul Woodfull, I see none. There's all manner of stuff on youtube, I see no reason why this should be included. There's no link to "Rise and follow Charlie" on Haughey's article, and that song is/was actually famous. Snappy (talk) 21:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia's trivia policy discourages trivia, so inclusion of individual items must be soundly justified. Most trivia are just that — trivia — rubbish — and they degrade the quality of the encylopædia as information pollution. On rare occasions only, trivia can usefully illuminate a subject. I cannot identify how this particular triviality contributes to the understanding of Norris. — O'Dea (talk) 00:00, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  YouTube song link 

message: Hello User:Asarlaí Thanks for your adding of the NPOV tag. I've made changes now to improve.
The Wikipedia rules are:
"If you come across an article whose content does not seem to be consistent with Wikipedia's NPOV policy, use one of the tags below to mark the article's main page. Then, on the article's talk page, make a new section entitled "NPOV dispute [- followed by a section's name if you're challenging just a particular section of the article and not the article as a whole]". Then, under this new section, clearly and exactly explain which part of the article does not seem to have a NPOV and why. Make some suggestions as to how one can improve the article. Be active and bold in improving the article."
I've added that requested section to talk page. Could you follow the guidelines above with specifics to help improve the article or remove the NPOV tag please? Thanks Is Mise (talk) 17:45, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV dispute [Views] 

message: My edit adding that the property (already mentioned in the article) was acquired with sitting tenants was rapidly deleted as being trivia rather than of note. Nobody saying it's false yet. Interesting! It's 29th September...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.182.234 (talk) 22:02, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What does it matter? If you are predicting that this will become some big issue during the forthcoming election then wait for it to do so. (The statement will also be verifiable if it does.) For now, it's irrelevant if the property was bought with sitting tenants or not. --RA (talk) 22:27, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia is not a news site. Neither do we predict the future. I suggest you contact the press if you want to start a story somewhere. --RA (talk) 22:57, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with RA. This isn't a forum, but I expect as things reach a head in the election, some, particularly anons, will 'do their bit' to influence events. RashersTierney (talk) 23:42, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The trolls are out in force tonight, adding unreferenced material, semi-protection may be needed. Snappy (talk) 20:32, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

text: No.  WP:OR and WP:RS. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 10:17, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  N Gt. Georges St. property. 

message: The repeated claim that Norris is a human rights activist is claim and not an undisputed fact. 
Norris is perfectly entitled to make the claim, but it should not be repeated verbatim without caveat.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.186.51 (talk) 21:29, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not Norris making the "claim", it's the journalists writing about him. I could have added 20 more references, but it would make the page look ugly. The sources say he's a gay/civil rights activist, so that's how we report it – to say it's dubious is to add your own spin to the statement, which is what we need to avoid. If the sources say it's so, as far as we're concerned, it's so. I've removed the tag pending further discussion. JonCTalk 21:38, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I note this is the same anon who tried to add the landlord material (see above), clearly someone with an agenda. Snappy (talk) 07:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

text: The claim is well cited to independent third parties and the term correctly. The statement is not dubious in any way. Norris has been an activist for a number of causes and is well-known as one. --RA (talk) 07:57, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: I've proposed that all articles on candidates on the upcoming presidential election be semi protected until the 28th of October. This is owing to all of these articles coming under increasing pressure from vandals and unregistered/newly-registered editors with obvious axes to grind.
I've opened a general discussion on this at at WikiProject Ireland. --RA (talk) 17:52, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  General semi-protection for candidates in the upcoming presidential election 

message: With regard to the section entitled "2002 Magill magazine interview"  -  with specific reference to the last sentence "the interview was recorded and on 21 October 2011 it was played on the radio talk show Liveline", it should be noted that on the original interview with Joe Duffy Liveline show, Helen Lucy Burke asserted, "I think I have a tape somewhere, but its so old that I don't think it will work on any player", to which Duffy replied  "sure technology will get it working".
Also, when Helen Lucy Burke was asked if she had a tape while being interviewed on RTE 6 o'clock news on May 31st 2011 by Caitriona Perry (a link provided), Perry asserted that "despite originally believing that she had a recording of the interview, Helen Lucy Burke is now not so sure". The pictures then switch to Burke asserting "I don't think so, I thought I had a taped cassette, but it turns out that is was in the one, I wasn't able to open it because it was a different length from the one in my existing cassette box". When Caitriona Perry asked "do you think you have a tape anywhere else", Burke replied "it could be under the mountains of stuff that came down when my ceiling came in"
In the last days of the campaign the tape was released and according to the Irish Independent Newspaper (a link provided), Ms. Burke "said yesterday she found the tape recently but only released it in the last days of the campaign for “impact.” She said “it would give people something to think about when they went to the polls. It might incite people to vote against Norris or for Norris.” 
Here are the two links that i have cited in my request;
First RTE Interview entitled "Norris hits out at campaign sabotage":
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0531/norrisd.html
And also the Irish Independent article in the last days of the campaign entitled "Burke released Norris tape in final days for maximum impact":
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/burke-released-norris-tape-in-final-days-for-maximum-impact-2914247.html
I think to include all relevant facts, including Helen Lucy Burke's assertions relating to this particular issue and the events surrounding the tape should be included. 
Karpackie (talk) 23:04, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you provide the actual text you want inserted into the article and the text (if any) you want replaced? — Bility (talk) 22:36, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Chzz took care of this below. Celestra (talk) 17:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 29 December 2011 -  

message: As per the original article with the section entitled, 2002 Magill magazine interview - "The interview was recorded and on 21 October 2011 it was played on the radio talk show Liveline." - This sentence is very brief in relation to all matters surrounding the tape and its subsequent release. I would like to have the following added.
"During the initial interview on May 30th 2011, Burke explained on Liveline that she had "a tape somewhere around but I cant find it, its twelve years old and I don't know whether it would be viable now". Also, when Burke was asked if she had a tape while being interviewed on RTE 6 o'clock news on May 31st 2011 by Caitriona Perry,  Perry asserted that "despite originally believing that she had a recording of the interview, Helen Lucy Burke is now not so sure". Burke explained, "I don't think so, I thought I had a taped cassette, but it turns out that it was in the one, I wasn't able to open it because it was a different length from the one in my existing cassette box". When Caitriona Perry asked "do you think you have a tape anywhere else", Burke replied "it could be under the mountains of stuff that came down when my ceiling came in". 
In the last days of the campaign the tape was released and according to the Irish Independent Newspaper, Ms. Burke "said yesterday she found the tape recently but only released it in the last days of the campaign for “impact.” She said “it would give people something to think about when they went to the polls.” "
I have already cited my sources by I can provide them here again. The original interview on Joe Duffy I see is already referenced.
For the RTE News Report "Norris hit out at campaign sabotage - 
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0531/norrisd.html
Irish Independent article - 
Karpackie (talk) 00:09, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Done  Chzz  ►  02:56, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 30 December 2011 

message: Please remove :Category:Candidates for President of Ireland and replace it with :Category:Candidates for the Irish presidential election, 2011.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.104.255 (talk • contribs) 
:Done, although the category looks likely to be merged in the near future.... Sailsbystars (talk) 22:40, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Category request

message: I see no valid reason for 'British English' to be prescribed over Hiberno-English at this article. If anything, the local variant should be preferred due to the subject's clear connection with this style. RashersTierney (talk) 11:10, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: So add a Hiberno-English tag. Why are you removing it altogether? And why have you just re-reverted before you even took to talk? — Jon C.ॐ 11:29, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no pressing need for any prescriptive tag to be added here. If it isn't broke, why waste time and energy 'fixing'? RashersTierney (talk) 11:44, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I suppose it clearly was broke at some point, which is why the tag was added. One presumes it was riddled with Americanisms, but I really don't have the energy to go rooting around the history. Don't understand what the problem was with it. — Jon C.ॐ 11:55, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It was added a few hours ago with the ES 'testing', whatever that means. RashersTierney (talk) 12:10, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, right. No idea what "ES testing" is either. — Jon C.ॐ 12:13, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:ENGVAR|Engvar]]

message: The addition of traitors comment is clearly out of context. Eoin McNeill issued an order cancelling the 1916 rising, so those who went ahead were by Norris' definitions "traitors to their own cause", as they disobeyed a direct order from the commander of the IV. Adding this quote on its own is not what wikipedia is about. Wikipedia is about WP:NPOV and balance. Snappy (talk) 19:27, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure where your insinuations that I am not keeping to a neutral point of view come from: clearly I directly quoted Norris without adding any point of view or interpretation of my own. Furthermore, I included "to their own cause" to acknowledge that Norris had indeed qualified his accusation of treachery. It is clearly an honest quotation and included the full phrase so that the Norris' own qualification was retained. It does not matter whether your and Norris' opinion regarding MacNeill and countermanding orders is historically accurate or not: what is important is that it is Norris' opinion and it is relevant to a pre-existing section on his wiki page. If you think it is necessary to add even more context to this quote, I don't understand what is stopping you from doing so. I will be reverting your edit and restoring this direct quotation. If you feel it necessary, by all means add the context that you suggest it lacks. If there is some reason the quote shouldn't be on wikipedia, please let me know. Blippityblop (talk) 20:06, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm removed because it was out of context, and I see no point in adding so-called context because it is being clearly used in a npov way. Snappy (talk) 16:56, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Could you explain exactly how 'it is being clearly used in a npov way'? I fail to see a connection. I am reverting your change. Please add context if you wish, I personally believe it is not needed, but if you do go ahead. Let me know how it is isn't a neutral point of view if necessary.  Blippityblop (talk) 22:25, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It is out of context. Nothing is served by adding context, it adds nothing to the article. Snappy (talk) 17:23, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent additions 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added  tag to http://www.rte.eu/radio1/liveline/2011-05-26.html
*Added  tag to http://www.independent.ie/national-news/norris-tops-president-poll-2490541.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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