Talk:Elaine Morgan

message: currently (August 2011) the reference in this article to Elaine Morgan's web site, currently reference 10 pointing to http://www.elainemorgan.me.uk/, is a dead link.  If this web site has moved (I haven't been able to track it down), can someone correct the link?  If the web site no longer exists, I suggest deleting the sentence that refers to it. Tonydwyer2001 (talk) 20:41, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Elaine Morgan web site

message: Much of the discussion about Elaine Morgan's "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis" quotes from her own website, including the criticisms from the scientific community raised against her theories. There is very little independent reference to her work, published in third party sources. I believe her aquatic ape hypothesis has not been well-received or accepted by the scientific community on the whole, from what I've heard and read, and contradicts what is stated on Ms. Morgan's own website.
In any case, for a Wikipedia article and under WP:NPOV, an article needs well-referenced third party sources and discussions about criticism and support. Please provide sources OTHER THAN from Ms.Morgan's own website - perhaps from scientific journals or publications, discussing the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
24.18.216.212 (talk) 15:10, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In describing the hypothesis it is necessary to quote from Elaine Morgan´s own books and web-site since she is the main proponent, and for many years was the sole proponent. There are references to ample material describing her struggle for acceptance. In a biographical article such as this, one would not expect more. The detailed counter arguments can be advanced in Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.  There would be a justifiable accusation of a lack of NPOV if this article did not emphasise that it was only a hypothesis. In this article we only need give references to what Elaine Morgan herself has done. JMcC (talk) 15:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK fair enough. I accept your point, and shall take down the neutrality issue. Cheers 
24.18.216.212 (talk) 03:20, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality under dispute 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Elaine Morgan (writer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080515192535/http://www.academi.org/list-of-writers/i/130360/ to http://www.academi.org/list-of-writers/i/130360/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Elaine Morgan (writer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100305070326/http://www.rslit.org/content/fellows to http://www.rslit.org/content/fellows
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
 (as amended)
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:22, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Elaine Morgan (writer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924091337/http://www.riverapes.com/AAH/FoF/FactOrFiction.htm to http://www.riverapes.com/AAH/FoF/FactOrFiction.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924091337/http://www.riverapes.com/AAH/FoF/FactOrFiction.htm to http://www.riverapes.com/AAH/FoF/FactOrFiction.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:37, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) –Ammarpad (talk) 11:01, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Elaine Morgan (writer) →  – Clearly the primary topic, as an important and well-known writer who won several awards.  The singer can be dealt with by a hatnote. PatGallacher (talk) 00:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Re  It seems we crossed-paths. So I already closed this for you.  –Ammarpad (talk) 11:16, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

text: No problem, we reached the same conclusion, and as far as I can see the result was good! Thanks for the heads-up. Andrewa (talk) 15:53, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 22 February 2018 

message: seems to be trying to force an edit including WP:PROFRINGE coverage of the Aquatic ape hypothesis. Coverage of that hypothesis should take place at its page, not on this biographical page. And erasing the mainstream criticism is problematic per WP:PSCI. Alexbrn (talk) 19:33, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: In my editing  experience content fully sourced to reliable sources is regarded as desirable rather than “odd”. Publishing an international bestseller is “undue” content for a biography article???  The feminist critique is undue/Fringe??  Try reading the citations and tell me where the POV content is.  Unlike the previous content  critical AND supportive academic response is included as per WP:NPOV.  SInce Morgan spent 20 years plus working on AAH how specifically her work was received is legitimate content to be distinguished from “coverage of the AAH” in general to which many others have contributed. Almanacer (talk) 20:44, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Alexbrn: the subject is adequately covered in the context of this article without the addition. This discussion should end now. Bmcln1 (talk) 21:08, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit warring 

message: I am writing a book about Elaine to commemorate the centenary of her birth (November 7th 2020).
I've been a little disappointed with this web page for a long time for several reasons and hope to elicit some discussion from any respected editors who have contributed in the past or would be keen do do in future. 
Some topics...
1) It's a bit sparse, generally but the section about her personal life is skeletal at best. There is very little about her early life which is well documented in her autobiography "Knock 'em Cold Kid." I'd be happy to expand on that.
2) I think there should be at least two sections regarding her work. The first should be entitled "Writing for Television" and should catalogue/summarise her forty+ years as a TV playwright. Her 'AAH-related' books should be included in the second section. "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis" is a fair title for that, as it was the title of her best book on the subject, even though she clearly had more to say than just support of that model of human evolution. "The Descent of Woman" was one of the early books supporting the 'women's liberation movement.' "The Descent of the Child" hardly touched on the AAT and was warmly applauded by people such as Robin Dunbar. "Falling Down" was a political book with a 'green' slant about the ills of city dwelling, and "Pinker's List" was a critique of "The Blank Slate" and more political than anything.
3) The section on the "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis" is embarrassing. Three scrawny sentences. In the first, to say she "promoted a version of [it]" is mean beyond belief. She heard of the idea, took it out of obscurity. Publicised it and developed it beyond recognition. She added to it considerably and, thanks to her, there are now scores of scientists who are looking into some of the predictions it makes. The second is what exactly? A slur? The third, although it starts with a factual half-sentence, ends with another put down. Surely this page should be a fair portrayal of her life, not some place where the "establishment" can keep a pretty plausible theory down. Elaine spent the last forty years of her life working on this idea.
It is perfectly reasonable that at least a couple of famous quotes about her and her work should be included here.
The First is from Daniel C Dennett...
“Many of the counterarguments seem awfully thin and ad hoc. During the last few years when I have found myself in the company of distinguished biologists, evolutionary theorists, paleo-anthropologists, and other experts, I have often asked them just to tell me, please, exactly why Elaine Morgan must be wrong about the aquatic ape theory. I haven't yet had a reply worth mentioning, aside from those who admit, with a twinkle in their eyes, that they have often wondered the same thing."” 
Dennett (1995:1-580)
Dennett, Daniel C (1995). Darwin's Dangerous Idea. Pengiun (London)
The second is from Philip V Tobias.
“I see Elaine Morgan, through her series of superbly written books, presenting a challenge to the scientists to take an interest in this thing, to look at the evidence dispassionately. Not to avert your gaze as though it were something you that you hadn't ought to hear about or hadn't ought to see. And those that are honest with themselves are going to dispassionately examine the evidence. We've got to if we are going to be true to our calling as scientists. 
Tobias, PV  The Aquatic Ape: BBC/Discovery Channel Documentary (1998).
AlgisKuliukas (talk) 07:38, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: What's stopping you? Bmcln1 (talk) 16:36, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: @ Defintely room for improvement along the lines suggested. Will give it some consideration. Almanacer (talk) 16:46, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  100th anniversary of Elaine Morgan's Birth 

message: That's a lovely photo of Elaine, and I am very happy that it's being used, but it would be nice to have received credit for it. Someone took that image from one of my web pages and posted it here without attribute it. I would do so myself but then someone might object.
AlgisKuliukas (talk) 23:51, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Clicking on the photo at the top of the article goes to :File:Elaine Morgan in 1998.jpg which shows that you uploaded the file on 30 March 2017. The information shown at the file page is the only credit given for images. That is similar to the text in articles as the only way to credit the people who did most of the work in building an article is to examine the article history. Johnuniq (talk) 00:51, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo of Elaine