Talk:Eureka Stockade

message: Hi, I am working to encourage implementation of the goals of the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. Part of that is to make sure articles cite their sources. This is particularly important for featured articles, since they are a prominent part of Wikipedia. The Fact and Reference Check Project has more information. Thank you, and please leave me a message when you have added a few references to the article. - Taxman 20:00, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)
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"On 28 November, the reinforcements marching from Melbourne were attacked by a mob. A number were injured and a drummer boy was allegedly killed."
A mob of soldiers or miners?
Also:
On 28 November, the reinforcements marching from Melbourne were attacked by a mob. A number were injured and a drummer boy was allegedly killed. At a meeting the following day (29 November) the Reform League relayed to the miners its failure to achieve any success in negotiations with the authorities. The miners resolved to openly resist the authorities and burn the hated licences.
Most notably the Eureka Flag, a blue flag designed by a Canadian miner, "Captain" Henry Ross, and bearing nothing but the Southern Cross, was flown for the first (recorded) time. As a gesture of defiance, it deliberately excluded the British Union Flag, which appears on the official flag of Australia. This flag is now housed at the Ballarat Fine Art Gallery.
Rede responded by ordering a large contingent of police to conduct a licence search on 20 November. Although eight defaulters were arrested, most of the military resources available had to be summoned to extricate the arresting officers from the angry mob that had assembled.
IF the attack was on the 28th how could the Governor respond by making a licence hunt on the 20th?
In reply:
1. 28 November: military reinforcements were attacked by a mob of miners. Article corrected.
2. 29 November: Delegation of the Ballarat Reform League returns from Melbourne and meets with miners.
3. 30 November: Rede responds with a licence hunt using military resources. I think the 20th mentioned above was an error.
For references, please consult the texts in the references section, and some of the External Links also have Timelines or descriptions of events. There is no dispute over these events as they feature in most commentaries on the Eureka Stockade and so should not require specific citation. --Takver 11:05, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to second the request for citations for references, in particular the references to the Independent California Rangers, and the Eureka flag being designed by a Canadian.  In all the reading I've done on this issue, I've never seen a starring role being given to Americans/Canadians to the extent it is on Wikipedia.59.167.59.181 09:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for references

message: I notice the article mentions miners flying the rebel 'Eureka flag':
"Most notably the Eureka Flag, a blue flag designed by a Canadian miner, "Captain" Henry Ross, and bearing nothing but the Southern Cross, was flown for the first (recorded) time. As a gesture of defiance, it deliberately excluded the British Union Flag, which appears on the official flag of Australia."
Should we also note that many of the miners around Ballarat at the time of the troubles were displaying the flag of the United Kingdom as a symbol of their loyalty to the Crown?
I first read this little known Eureka fact in the following article:
EUREKA
Be not misled! The Eureka Stockade has nothing to do with a republic or the Labor Party but everything to do with the Ultimate Supremacy of Law and Justice Under The Crown
http://www.monarchist.org.au/past_years_from_2000.htm#EUREKA 
124.183.230.177 15:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flags at Eureka 

message: I have included a section on the Commander in Chief of the Eureka Stockade, the great Peter Lalor. I have included a portrait of him to compliment the portrait of his adversary, Governor Hotham.
Given the importance of the elected leader of the Eureka Stockade to the wikipedia article on the Eureka Stockade I say we make more room for the great man. One improvement that a writer of more skill could make to this section is to point out that he was not so much a great revolutionary as a man who was just a little bit peeved about the price of mining permits and the fact the peelers were asking to see it five times a day.
LALOR RESOURCES
Peter Lalor was the Commander-in-Chief of the diggers who fought at Eureka.
... it seems he became commander-in-chief almost by accident...He was 25 years of age, six feet tall and impulsive by nature.
(source Bert and Bon Strange, Eureka, Gold Graft and Grievances, B&B Strange, Ballarat, 1973)
Peter Lalor, an Irishman, a Eureka digger, a positive, independent thinker, but no democrat, mounted the stump and proclaimed "Liberty", and called for volunteers to form (military) companies. His initiative declared him leader.
(source: Weston Bate, Lucky City: The First Generation at Ballarat 1851 - 1901, Melbourne University Press, Melbourne, 1978, page 67)
There are two things connected with the late outbreak (Eureka) which I deeply regret. The first is, that we should have been forced to take up arms at all: and the second is, that when we were compelled to take the field in our own defence, we were unable (through want of arms, ammunition and a little organisation) to inflict on the real authors of the outbreak, the punishment they so richly deserved.
(source: Peter Lalor, A Statement to the Colonists of Victoria, reprinted in Bob O’Brien, Massacre at Eureka: The Untold Story, Sovereign Hill Museums Association, 1998)
124.187.178.125 15:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commander in Chief 

message: Wouldn't it help readers grapple with the question of how significant the Eureka Stockade was in the development of democracy in Australia if they knew the views of its 'Commander in Chief' (as Peter Lalor was known) on this subject?
This is Lalor on democracy:
"I would ask these gentlemen what they mean by the term 'democracy'. do they mean Chartism or Communism or Republicanism? If so, I never was, I am not now, nor do I ever intend to be a democrat. But if a democrat means opposition to a tyrannical press, a tyrannical people, or a tyrannical government, then I have been, I am still, and will ever remain a democrat." (Speech to the Victorian Legislative Council, 1856).
His voting record in parliament shows he once opposed a bill to introduce full male sufferage in the colony of Victoria.
124.187.178.125 14:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eureka and democracy 

message: Should we discuss in the article the eyewitness reports that vast quantities of liquor were being consumed by the demonstrators the night before the clash with the authorities took place? Most of the people inside were Irish and statistics show they really know how to drink those boys.
124.187.178.125 15:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eureka and alcohol 

message: FORTIFICATIONS
People who were in Ballarat at the time said the Eureka Stockade was "higgledy piggeldy". By all accounts it wasn't a very impressive engineering feat.
This ought to be mentioned in an article about the Eureka Stockade. Wikipedia has apparently heaps of room to discuss the political aspects of the insurrection.
Rather than worrying about whether it was the "birthplace of Australian democracy" or not why not try the novel approach of including some simple factual information about the nature of the defensive position the miners prepared?
WEAPONRY
Why not, in an article about the Eureka Stockade, have a look at the weaponry used by both sides? That has got to be more interesting to a non-Australian reader then the arid debate over whether it was the "birthplace of Australian democracy" or not.
For example, isn't it fascinating that some of the miners just had pikes and swords and sharpened sticks and nothing else?
What weapons were the authorities armed with? Did the mounted police have swords? Lances? Carbines? Revolvers maybe?
At present anybody who comes to this article looking for the answers to these basic questions is going to leave dissapointed.
124.187.178.125 15:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eureka fortifications and weaponry 

message: The article says:
"A Commission of Enquiry into the affair was organised, and was scathing in its assessment of all aspects of the administration of the gold fields, and particularly the Eureka Stockade affair."
The article must be very clear about the fact that the commission of enquiry had been established BEFORE the Eureka Stockade incident took place, after serious rioting in Ballarat.
It is obvious why this is an important point. Some people argue that the reforms the miners were seeking were already in train before the armed uprising occured. And personally, I think they would be correct.
Geoffrey Blainey discusses it here:
"Every government in the world would probably have counterattacked in the face of the building of the stockade. We forget that Hotham, on the 16th of November 1854, set up a commission of inquiry into the goldfields and their administration. It was perhaps the most generous concession offered by a governor to a major opponent in the history of Australia up to that time. The members of the commission were appointed before Eureka, in the opinion of Geoffrey Searle's Golden Age, they were men who were likely to be sympathetic to the diggers. 
Most historians do not like Hotham and they have a very strong point that I think is unwise to downplay the magnitude of this gesture. It is sometimes said that the commission was late to get started; it didn't begin its work until after Eureka, until the middle of December. But even in our jet-speed age, the commission of inquiry rarely sets to work within a month of being appointed. Of course by then the battle had been fought. That independent inquiry showed its independence throughout its work."
Source: http://www.abc.net.au/ballarat/stories/s1260647.htm
124.187.178.125 15:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commission of enquiry 

message: According to the article:
"Because the materials used to build the stockade were rapidly removed to be used for the mines and the entire area itself was so extensively worked that the original landscape was unrecognisable, the exact location of the stockade was quickly lost track of. However the event itself returned to the national consciousness and became a rallying cry as the call for federation and nationhood gained momentum in the 1890s."
I would advance the view that Eureka had nothing to do with the federation movement.
What sources claim it did I wonder?
124.187.178.125 10:42, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eureka and federation 

message: This article is biased nearly all the way through. We should have a little display box saying "the neutrality of this article is in dispute" until the issues can be resolved.
More basic facts. Less left wing propaganda, or even better none.
124.187.178.125 15:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In what ways is it biased? If you can provide proof then get an account and do the editing yourself.Spec ops commando 03:32, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I dont know what this user expects in an article on what was essentialy a trade union dispute with a colonial government. The article states the facts of the matter and if that puts the left wing in a good light then "so be it". To say that "this article is biased nearly all the way through" and then not provide any any examples shouldnt lead to a neutrality banner on an article. 194.152.93.186 12:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

text: As no reasons have been given for the Neutrality banner, I am removing it. no proof of bias has been given, and the article appears to be factual. Rimmeraj 05:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The Eureka Stockade had sweet nothing to do with the federation movement but the article says it does.
It's a lot better then it was when I first made the accusation it was unbalanced.
124.187.150.76 16:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality of article 

message: :The monthly fee for this licence was 30 shillings — a huge fee for the time — and was payable whether or not any gold had actually been found.
This part says, "a huge fee" but doesn't exactly describe how difficult raising this money was. Can someone add these two points so we have a better understanding of this? --Revth 00:43, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miner's Licence 

message: This statement makes me very angry: 
"The role of the Eureka Stokade in generating public support for these demands beyond the goldfields, has resulted in the identification of Eureka with the birth of democracy in Australia."
Why then did South Australia have full male suffrage before Victoria?
 
Why did Victorians have to prove they owned a certain amount of property before they were able to vote in upper house elections until the middle of last century?
124.187.150.76 23:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read WP:NPOV, it states that NPOV means that both points of view should be stated. To quote "representing fairly and without bias all significant views ". Please add your point of view along side the other and add the verifiable references required, as Barry has done.  Please do not replace or remove the other point of view. If it makes you angry that others have a POV you do not agree with, then please step back and cool down. Agree to disagree, and work on getting both POV s into the article. I am attempting to be a neutral mediator in this, I have not added any content to this article, but would like to see it balanced and have this conflict resolved. PS: would you consider signing up with a username rather than anon IP? Rimmeraj 23:56, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Inflammatory statement

message: Read this:
"The preceding three years of agitation for the miners' demands, combined with mass public support in Melbourne for the captured 'rebels' when they were placed on trial, resulted in the introduction of popular elections for the lower house in the Victorian parliament."
As in South Australia, there would have been popular elections for the lower hourse in any event. Eureka didn't achieve this, and I think the article kind of says it did.
Eureka helped to secure a wider franchise - full white male suffrage - but people with a certain amount of property would still have voted in Legislative Assembly elections in the colony of Victoria had the insurrection not occured.
124.187.150.76 23:37, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suffrage

message: The writings of Raffaello Carboni, who was present at the Stockade, make it clear that "amongst the foreigners.. there was no democratic feeling, but merely a spirit of resistance to the licence fee"; and he also disputes the accusations "that have branded the miners of Ballaarat as disloyal to their QUEEN" (emphasis is in the original).(RC:108,153) 
The Argus newspaper, of 4th December 1854, also reported that the Union Jack flag flew underneath the Southern Cross flag of the diggers at the Eureka Stockade.
I'll open it to the floor, is this information worthy of incorporation?
124.187.150.76 01:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New information - more myth busting

message: The quality of the current flag image is poor. It was recently changed from a better quality (even though newer) version. Can we at least show both. The current image takes away from the article. Rimmeraj 00:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag Image 

message: I've given the article a fairly ruthless, sentence-by-sentence re-edit, in the aftermath of its de-FA. I've probably introduced some typos of my own, so could someone go over it and check? Metamagician3000 12:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone ever do this? Metamagician3000 07:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't time now but I will try to do tomorrow.  My browser now supports spell check in edit mode :-)  There are still a lot more citations required. Regards--Golden Wattle  talk 10:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Re-edit

message: Editors regularly clean out undiscussed links from this article.  Please discuss here if you want a link not to be cleaned out regularly.  (You can help!)--VS talk 04:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discuss links here 

message: The stockade was a specific place. This article is really about the Eureka Rebellion (which redirects here) and that would be a more accurate name for it, IMO. Spektr1848 (talk) 07:24, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of article 

message: The Victorian constitution (passed after Eureka) allowed for full white male suffrage for elections to the legislative assembly did it not?
And is it true there were property qualifications with regards to eligibility to vote in Legislative Council elections until the 1950s?
121.216.23.3 (talk) 07:22, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suffrage 

message: For those who may wish to extract component and link to it, the report of Capt Thomas is at s:Capt. J. W. Thomas report to Headquarters following Eureka rebellion billinghurst sDrewth 04:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capt. J. W. Thomas report to Headquarters following Eureka rebellion