Talk:Gurage people

message: I fixed some of the places where the Silt'e were included among the Gurage.  According to Vaughan, although it was assumed by other Ethiopians (including other Gurage) and non-Ethiopians for 100 years, the Silt'e themselves, for whom their religion (Islam) was a defining feature, have not felt a part of a larger mainly Christian Gurage ethnicity.  In any case, they are now "officially" a separate ethnicity, with their own zone within SNNPR, separate from the Gurage zone (which includes both of the other Gurage sub-groups).  So we need a separate article on the Silt'e people and also need to clean up this article since it seems to be based heavily on the Shacks' work, which is apparently mainly (or only?) concerned with the Sebat Bet Gurage. -- MikeG (talk) 00:30, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: i am a silti by origin count according to the gurage people traditional source tracing , as they depend on their paternala trace counting , accordingly i am from the gumer and inequamt sub clan , inequamt is the son of silti but currently totaly considered to be a western gurage group , but the shamfull issue is that people with little knowledge and narrow insight are continuousely distracting the hard working and peace loving citizens of gurage. gurages are diverse, it is true ,they live both in the cities and country ,that is also true ,  but the principle of the GOGOT  ,which is the defeat for most and all gurage hating group , never    seem to be mentioned any where in most gurage articles i will try to refer this particular book written by a scholar from this unique tribe " under the quest of the time" to be evidence for those who hasitate to call silti a gurage tribe , i am sorry but we are gurages , ask your grand pa or ma WHAT Is THE GOGOT?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 150.101.101.93  (talk • contribs) 02:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Silt'e

message: I've moved the following comment from the article to the Talk page. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 04:46, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment moved from article 

message: 'Kocho is made  by shaping the Ensete paste to a thick circle and wrapping it in a thin layer of ensete leaves.Its baked in a small pit with coals.Sometimes the paste is just cooked over a gridle.In episode 8 in bizzare foods, Andrew Zimmern tasted the 'Kocho and said it tasted like nothing and it made his mouth dry.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dama978 (talk • contribs) 03:47, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Dama, as I mentioned, I enjoy kocho, myself - so if the fellow on the TV show didn't like it, that's his loss. Honestly, I'm kind of fascinated that kocho was on a TV show, even if the guy couldn't appreciate it.  It's just his opinion, just like if a food is "bizarre" or not. But while it might merit inclusion (because the TV show is notable), I'm not going to argue for putting it back in the article, either. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 04:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Kocho

message: I have moved the entire enset article because it has so many errors. We will discuss and sift out the errors and put it back up. I hope.
"The ensete or “false banana plant” has a massive stem that grows underground and is completely involved in every aspect of Gurage life.  It has a place in everyday interactions among community members as well as specific roles in rituals. (For example: uses of Ensete would be wrapping a corpse after death with it, or after birth, the umbilical cord being tied off with an ensete fiber.) Historically, westerners have nicknamed the Gurage "The People of the Ensete", since they are the only people in the world to cultivate ensete as a crop. 
  
Strangely enough, the nutritional value this plant contains as their primary food source is not considered to be of much importance.  The plant can be prepared a number of different ways, and the practical uses of ensete in Gurage culture are varied.  In addition to this plant, a few cash crops are maintained and livestock is raised (though mainly for milk and fertilizer).  A normal Gurage diet consists primarily of kocho, a thick bread made from ensete, and is supplemented by cabbage, cheese, butter, and grains.  Meat is not consumed on a regular basis, but usually eaten sparingly during a ritual or ceremonial event.The Gurage pound the root of the Ensete and then place it in a hole where the root was and the hole is lined with the ensete leaves.Then the hole is covered by more leaves and left to ferment and rot.The resulting paste is used to make porridge and bread.The only way to eat ensete is to make into a paste."
......
For accurate information on Asat(Sebat Bet for enset,Amharic), please refer to this study.
. 
The asat is a plant; it's not a tree. Important to distinguish the differences. It has a stem of layers; and has a corm, the circular solid root like an onion without the layers, from which shallow roots grow horizontally very close to the surface. It's a staple food in large parts of Gurage and the eastern SNNPR to be exact, and some Oromo regions such as Arsi. But, it's not the only food. There are maize, wheat, teff, protein rich peanuts, shimbra and atere, zaituna, lemons, oranges, bananas, etc. A dead corpse wrapped in an asat leaves and umblical chord tied with asat fiber robe called 'qancha' is false statement needs to be struck out. Other than W.A.Shack, no westerners called Gurage, " people of the enset Culture.". So, westerns "historically" called Gurage 'a people of the enset culture is not true. This also nees to be slapped out. As mentioned above, it's not only Gurages for whom asat is a staple food plant. There are over 15 million Ethiopians who use asat as their staple food. To say, 'Gurages are the only people in the world who cultivate enset' is ignorant. This too has to go.
The food nutrient in wussa(Sebat et for qocho, amharic, 'wese' in Sidama, probably all over eastern SNNPR) is carbohydrate. It has a starch. As no one food provides a balanced diet, wussa has to be supplimented with milk, meat, eggs, fruits, vegetables for a complete diet. The American scientists who studied it suggest the ubiquitous introduction of peanuts as the cheapest source of protien suppliments for the poor farmer who may not afford meat, milk and eggs.
For the cultivation, harvesting of asat and the production of wussa, please refer to the link provided above.
Dama  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dama978 (talk • contribs) 06:33, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Dama, I've been reading through the "Tree Against Hunger Source" resource that you suggested.  One thing I noticed is that this same source (page 32) cites Shack regarding the "people of enset" nickname.  You may disagree with Shack's assessment, but it is cited in reliable sources, including the one you provided.  I realize this is a subject that is very close to you, but please keep in mind that Wikipedia's threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth (see the verfiability policy).  Rather than removing the statement, a better approach would be to cite a different source that refutes Shack's claims (e.g. "Professor X, however, maintains that Shack is incorrect..." or similar). Otherwise, we only have your word to go on that a reliable source (one you provided yourself) is incorrect.  Thanks, -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 16:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

text: My oppostion is against the above poster's generalization of Mr.Shack's view of Gurage as 'people of the enset culture', a title of his first book on Gurage, 1966, should not imply that all westerners 'historically' viewed Gurages as such because this is not the case. I am not here discussing the validity of shack's observation of Gurage as people defined by enset though I understand it's arguable whther he is right because the complex Gurage culture can be viewed in many angles such rural-to-city migration, entrepreneurship, Christian-Islam faiths, large family sizes, a custom of rational dialogue to dispute resolution, et. But, to claim that westerners 'historically' understood Gurage in terms of say large family sizes, there has to be proof of literature earlier than, say, 1966, the year, "Gurage: People of large Families" was published.  
The other mistakes the poster made are also disproven the by AAAS' "The Tree Against Hunger". There are no proofs tha that Gurages bury the dead wrapped in enset leaves, that umblical chords are tied by the rope of qancha(fibre, Sebat bet), that the carohydate wussa was not nuitritional, but that it supposed to be Albert Einstein's Unified formula to solve all dietary needs are all mere unnecessary negativies.  Wussa is a good source of carbohydrates like bread and protein and vitamin suppliments have to be found for a balanced diet. Source, AAAS, in "The Tree Against Hunger".
FYI: When the Imperial Ministry of Education hired Mr.Shack from London for Haile Sellasie I University, he just had MA. He was contracted by the above Ministry to produce a sociology book on Gurage. He used his research on Gurage for his PHD dissertation. His study of Gurage was rather a contractual business obligation rather than scholarshp, a searh for knowledge in the proper sense.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dama978 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Right, I looked pretty carefully, but as in your case I didn't see any mention of the corpse wrapping, umbilical wrapping etc., in "The Tree Against Hunger", either.  But it did mention Shack's phrase.  You raise a good point that it is a rather dated study, though. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 19:31, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ensete

message: "Dr. Yacob Haile-Mariam - NSU professor of Business Law..."
Which University is NSU? Hyperlink isn't correct.
Meswam (talk) 18:41, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Generally, lists of notable people should include working links to other Wikipedia articles, or at the very least, reference to a reliable source that attests to that person's notability, importance etc.  You may be correct regarding the census figures, but for better or worse they are the only reliable source for population.  If there is another source that documents any inaccuracies in the census, then it is fine to include that as well. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 16:18, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure what you mean. It looks like you went ahead and made the corrections.  I have gone back and fixed some broken wiki links, and changed the reference about Silt'e to use a template.  However, I did edit the Silt'e information to more closely reflect what the cited source says.  I think these changes are minor, though. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 01:32, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Gurage 

message: I guess by volunteering to edit, ediors acquired the right for only their views to stand in Wikipedia. Greeeeeeeeeeeat!!!!!Including what can and cannot stand for discussion in the discussion column. WooooooW!!!!!It should have been though if an idea was inserted in the main article, considered vandalism or drive-by editing. I am sure that you cannot put away opinions put up for discussion under discussion column. This is a limit to the power of editorship. Don't forget your limits. 
A nameless editor who goes by 76.67.72.109 is putting away opinions (s)he has allergy to. For example, he put away the topic below I posted for discussion following a realization that these indivduals may not meet the requirements for inclusion among Gurage notables. I nominated these individuals as notables without realizing that they are sectarian and are therefore notoriius for religious intolerance which disqualifies them from being  Gurage notables for a roughly 50% Christian and Muslim country.  With this view in mind, I posted the following topic to see what opposing views there might be, and in the absence of it, to go ahead and delete their names from list of the Gurage Notables. I believe I followed a correct procedure to allow others to air their views. The above editor shouldn't have taken it out of discussion. 
Questionable Gurage Notables == 
It's proper, I feel, to remove 
1. Sahle Sellasie Berhan-mariam 
2. Gebreyesus Hailemariam
3. Berhanu Abegaz, http://bxabeg.people.wm.edu/Ethiopia.Census%20Portrait.pdf 
Sectraianism, religious hatred. Their common hatred toward Gurage Muslims is unacceptable to be mentioned as Gurage public persons of honor.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.72.109 (talk) 14:47, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are the one who added them, I for one am not going to complain if you remove them, as they would result in red links anyway. Having said that, please note that it's not a list of "persons of honor", that is not Wikipedia's job.  It is a list of notable people (both heroes and villains, but again, it's not our job to label them as either one).  I'll also ask you to review WP:AGF and WP:NPA before referring to other editors as "aggressive." (I'm also confused why you are referring to 76.67.72.109 (talk) in the third person, unless there are two of you sharing the same computer.) Thank you. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 16:56, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reminding aggressive editors 

message: Can we include some pronunciation guides on the page please? It's really difficult to find this elsewhere. 
2406:9A00:0:107:203:144:40:156 (talk) 23:04, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree; the word Gurage isn't in any dictionary I can find, and I have no idea which syllable to stress.  (Russian Wikipedia stresses the last syllable, this site stresses the middle one, I have no idea on what authority or basis.) Languagehat (talk) 15:41, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  I can only offer my personal knowledge as a source, but the pronunciation at the external site (i.e., stress on middle syllable) is correct. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 15:57, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I really appreciate knowing that! Languagehat (talk) 21:02, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: I have deleted the title and its erroneous contents for 2 reasons.
1)There is no established way of ascertaining which names are popular.
2)99% of the names were Amara and Arabic names, completely erasing Gurage traditinal names.
I hope editors agree with me to keep this title deleted as it serves no purpose to the subject of Gurage identity other than misinform.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dam978 (talk • contribs) 16:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections from me. I don't recall any other articles about ethnic groups having this information. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 18:36, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Popular Gurage Names Title''' 

message: The enslavement of Gurage people in former times should at least be mentioned in this article. 173.89.236.187 (talk) 01:44, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gurage as slaves 

message: I personally found that reading https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:416226/FULLTEXT01.pdf was an interesting read, in relation to psychiatry and khat chewing in rural Ethiopia.  Perhaps usable as another modern view for the "spirit possession" section... 76.10.128.192 (talk) 04:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possibly of interest IRT "spirit possession" section 

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