Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Final Fantasy/Archive/12

message: ====Final Fantasy VII====
I went through the whole page today and have adjusted the wording throughout, and am now going through to adjust the screenshots somewhat. I've also added some references to it. Does anyone think it's ready? Ryu Kaze 17:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: New screenshots are up. Ryu Kaze 18:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Main game pages ready for Good Article status?

message: I went through the whole page today and have adjusted the wording throughout, and am now going through to adjust the screenshots somewhat. I've also added some references to it. Does anyone think it's ready? Ryu Kaze 17:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: New screenshots are up. Ryu Kaze 18:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ''[[Final Fantasy VII]]''

message: I've gone through this one now. See what you all think. Final Fantasy X-2 is next. Ryu Kaze 15:17, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ''[[Final Fantasy X]]''

message: I managed to luck out and find interviews with the creators and voice actors in an old bookmarks file of mine (be aware that the pages sometimes take a while to load; this is something still hosted on SE's servers that they've since blocked anything but direct access to), and I think that the Final Fantasy X page just might be able to make Featured Article status with these new additions. Ryu Kaze 21:35, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Developer info added

message: I think this one's ready if anyone wants to look at it. Deckiller and I have been working on it today. Ryu Kaze 00:32, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ''[[Final Fantasy X-2]]''

message: All right, now that Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X/X-2 have been completed, it's now time to start on Final Fantasy VI, methinks.  I will use the Cloud article as an example and begin to work on Terra and Celes's pages, see if we can bring them up to good status.  I'd like help from User:Ryu Kaze if I could, since he seems to be the most knowledgeable about the topic.  I have begun to make a few minor changes to Terra's page, but I'd like a few suggestions before I do anything major. Crazyswordsman 04:16, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Terra's article then and Terra's article now.  The work is far from complete, but I just want to alert everyone to the progress I'm making on this. Crazyswordsman 06:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll probably give it a look once I finish working on the Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2 pages themselves. I'm not sure how involved I'll be as, like I said previously, I'm a bit burned out, but I will give you any advice I think might be helpful. Ryu Kaze 14:11, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll handle all the gruntwork.  I just want some advice. Crazyswordsman 21:16, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry that I still haven't looked at it. My mind works in a direct way, such that I have to finish the current train of thought before I'm willing to trust that I can effectively divert my focus elsewhere. Ryu Kaze 21:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I just gave it a look. You're doing fine as far as the references go (though it's my personal preference to use one ' ' set for quotes within referenced lines), so I've got no particular advice in that area. You seem to be quoting the things that I probably would have if I were doing it myself (those things that deal with the fundamentals of the character throughout the plot). Like you said, the page has a ways to go, but I'm sure you can handle it fine since you're already aware of its issues. I'd strike out the reference to her Zodiac sign, though, and replace it with something like the quote from Celes' or Locke's page. That's about all the advice I have. I'm sorry. Good luck to you, CS. Ryu Kaze 00:58, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks!  I took your suggestions, and also added a piece about the mythological significance (with a reference, of course), of Terra and Celes' namesake, similarities, and contrasts. Crazyswordsman 01:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''[[Final Fantasy VI]]'' referencing  

message: Following Ryu Kaze's model, I redid the FFVI template:
Crazyswordsman 04:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks good, CS. Though I think it was Deckiller who came up with that wonderful template. Ryu Kaze 14:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The new ''[[Final Fantasy VI]]'' template 

message: This one is for character external links.  One is to the FFWiki page on Wikicities (written by me), one to the FF Online page (because that is what was there in the first place), and one to the character profile on Caves of Narshe (because it's the most respected FFVI site on the internet). Crazyswordsman 05:54, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Another new template for ''[[Final Fantasy VI]]''

message: In the last day or so, Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X have been listed as Good Articles. Additionally, Final Fantasy X-2 is nominated for Good Article status. Perhaps we can use this time to our advantage even more and get Final Fantasy magic, Final Fantasy Tactics, and the other main FF titles to GA status! :) — Deckiller 00:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's shoot for FA status! I really think we might be able to make it with the Final Fantasy X page now. Ryu Kaze 01:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put Final Fantasy X in for a Peer Review so that we can maybe get additional advice on how to turn it into an FA. Anyone think it might be ready for that nomination? Ryu Kaze 00:10, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added more info to the page, as well as references. Like I told Deckiller, this thing is going to make FA status if it kills me. Ryu Kaze 01:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to my research, I've been able to add additional information to the Final Fantasy VII page, as well, and will be able to add some to its character pages and the Final Fantasy VIII page. I've also been distribute information across various Final Fantasy X pages, including Tidus, Yuna, Lulu and Spira. Ryu Kaze 04:06, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now added lots of new info to the Final Fantasy VIII page, as well as new images. It's funny how I was supposed to be taking a WikiVacation, and yet I'm still just as involved as I was before. Ryu Kaze 06:50, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

text: PS: I'm trying to get Blitzball to at least doesn't reek page stage so if y'all can drop in and have a look see it will be appreciated Renmiri 00:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent surge of GAs

message: I've started an Ultimania page, does anyone want to help me out with it? I could also use some help linking references to it. --Shimei 05:47, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know that Ultimania pages used to exist for Final Fantasy X. There was a much debate about their inclusion in Wikipedia, and have since been merged into their respective installments in the game series. Refer to User_talk:Renmiri/Archive1#Final_Fantasy_X_.2F_X-2_articles. If you're proposing an article on the actual game guide series of books and not the individual strategy guides for each of the games, it might be acceptable. ~ Flooch 06:40, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally don't think that the Ultimania books warrant their own page, even when taken as a series. Any discussion of those books is automatically a discussion of their respective games, and details concerning them are most at home on their respective games' pages. See the Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2 pages for examples. Ryu Kaze 06:51, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: After thinking about it a little bit, it might not be a bad idea to have the page just to serve as a disambiguation hub for the various Ultimanias, with a slight description of what they are, and then links to each game's section on them (not that every game that has one has its own section for its Ultimania). Ryu Kaze 15:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: P.S. There was no original Ultimania for FFVII. It got a Kaitai Shinsho (published by Famitsu and licensed by Square), but its first Ultimania was the Ultimania Omega from last year. Ryu Kaze 15:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to retract my original conclusion. After looking at the page and adding more info to it and correcting some other info, I think the page staying would be a good idea. It could not only inform readers of what the books are and who makes them (I've noticed on Internet forums that a lot of people are unfamiliar with Ultimania), but it also informs them of which books have an Ultimania. I change my vote. This thing should stay as long as it doesn't start getting individual entries for the games that are trying to describe what they're all about. I still think that info should remain on the game pages. Ryu Kaze 15:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ultimania]] 

message: I've noticed that the inline citations (such as those on Final Fantasy X) can cause an entire line to be pushed down a few pixels, resulting in a sort of mini-paragraph. I still think that the inline citations should be kept as superscript, but is it possible to either:
#move the superscripted text down a few pixels, or,
#make line spacing a fixed amount, so that inline citations don't cause this bug
Anybody else notice this when using Mozilla Firefox? Should I bring this up at Wikipedia:Citing sources? ~ Flooch 08:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've not noticed any issues with it. This particular reference style is also the one used for the Wikipedia page itself, so I doubt that anyone who grades things for FA status or otherwise judges articles for quality considers it a poor method. Ryu Kaze 15:19, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not that I'm criticising the referencing style, it's their appearance in my browser that's a little off. Do you seriously not notice that lines with superscript get pushed down by a few pixels? In any case, I think I should bring this up at the Citing sources page rather than here. Sorry to make a fuss. :P ~ Flooch 15:44, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Aesthetic issues with inline citations

message: I thought I'd let you guys know that I've discovered that the FFVII-FFX/X-2 connection has more to reinforce it than we previously thought: Check it out here. Ryu Kaze 16:10, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See this already present discussion: Talk:Final Fantasy VII#FFX Connection ~ Hibana 00:25, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: DarkEvil: I think it was probably the similarities in the world physics that made you feel like they were connected. The spheres-materia and pyreflies-Lifestream stuff kind of makes itself apparent even without somebody pointing it out to you, doesn't it? As far as adding it goes, it's certainly not Original Research since it was an interview; now, whether or not the conclusions we can draw from that are OR is another story altogether. Inserting this very relevant info somewhere without pointing out its implications is the only way we could add it. We'd just have to mention it and the fact that it exists. I think we can probably add it to those pages that already make mention of the concept fairly easily. I'll do it tomorrow. Ryu Kaze 05:13, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, you're right about the world physics, they probably must've pointed me to the connection a little bit, but the thing that made me more aware of the connection at first was the speech Shinra made in X-2 about the energy of the farplane. And then, I played again a second time and got Rin guilty, so I had really no doubt about the connection anymore.--DarkEvil 23:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, I'll go ahead and do it now. One less thing to do tomorrow. Ryu Kaze 05:13, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, it's now on the Final Fantasy X-2, Materia, Shin-Ra and Mythology of Final Fantasy X pages. I just added it to the passages that were already on each and previously mentioned it, so I only had to rearrange the wording. It's been done in such a way that's it not fancrufty or anything resembling OR. Ryu Kaze 05:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I can't login to that page. Care to transcribe? --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 15:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the password there is "Aerith," but I'll go ahead and put everything here in a handy show/hide box:
Translations:
Dialogue with Rin from Final Fantasy X-2
Rin
"You are suggesting that my decision to upgrade the machina resulted in a number of casualties... ... and that I tried to cover it up?"
Yuna
"You put the investigation in our hands because we were amateurs. You hoped we would botch the case."
Yuna
"And then, I kept calling you even though I didn't have any leads."
Yuna
"You would have objected to the meaningless interruptions, if you really wanted to solve the case."
Rin
"I see. It appears that I have underestimated you, Yuna."
Rikku
"Why, Rin?"
Rin
"If word got out that machina pose a danger, people would fear them and stop using them."
Paine
"So Yevon's not alone in sweeping things under the rug."
Rin
"I firmly believe that machina are an indispensable part of Spira's development."
Rin
"Even if there is another incident, I intend to conceal the evidence."
Yuna
"You really think people will follow you that way?"
Rin
"I am not alone in my thinking."
Rin
"We are researching ways to extract the vast energy that sleeps in Spira, and use it to power machina."
Paine
"You're a jackass."
Rin
"I will take that as a compliment."
Dialogue with Shinra from Final Fantasy X-2
Shinra
"Aha..."
Yuna
"What are you looking at?"
Shinra
"Farplane data."
Shinra
"The more I study it, the more fascinating it gets. There's limitless energy swirling around in there."
Yuna
"Limitless energy?"
Shinra
"The life force that flows through our planet...I think."
Shinra
"With a little work, we could probably extract the energy in a useable form."
Brother
"Sweet!"
Shinra
"Of course, that'd take generations."
Brother
"That's no fun!"
Buddy
"Well, still, it is something worth shooting for."
Yuna
"Think how much Spira would change if we ever got it to work!"
Yuna
"Maybe one day we could build a city full of light, one that never sleeps!"
Shinra
"No doubt about it."
Dialogue with Rikku from Final Fantasy X-2: International+Last Mission
Paine
"These days, people are always looking for sunken machina."
Rikku
"Yup-yup!"
Yuna
"Oh? Has Shinra been helping you with that?"
Rikku
"Ahh, now that you bring it up..."
Rikku
"Well, he left the ship and got together with Rin, and what do you think all that research they've been doing is about?"
Interview with Yoshinori Kitase and Kazushige Nojima in the Final Fantasy X
Ultimania Omega (Page 191)
FFVII and FFX are connected?!
--"Previously, with a conversation in the FFX Scenario Ultimania, you made certain inferences, and since it's been about half a year since then, is there anything new you'd like to clarify about FFX?"
Kitase
"That's true...... Now that FFX International is out and we're in the future, I'm in a predicament; it really isn't that hard to think of another story [set] in that world; room for expansion was left possible there without too much difficulty, don't you think? Speaking conversely, FFX received a splendid reception and made us think of adding to it."
Nojima
"After FFVII was finished, we were easily able to add Zack's open[-ended role] into the International version. But, with X, there was an older story with a partly-finished world and an opening that this new one could be added to and [, in doing] so[,] complete it."
Kitase
"So, you could say [in terms of] time, Nojima-san decided to designate it to act as a sequel to VII, if you follow me."
--"It's a sequel to VII!!"
Kitase
"Well, there was a joke right there. Simply put, in VII's ending, Holy came, and the next thing you knew, it was over without closing things up, and then it was the "500 years later" [scene] in the future. There's a large margin buried there. A margin for the imagination. Nojima-san and Toriyama are going to be filling something of that with VII, though, while they're at their best and can do it."
--"So, will it become a sequel to VII's story?"
Nojima
"I have a strong feeling that they're going to be connected."
--"Huh, so VII and X ARE connected?"
Nojima
"Well, there's not many specifics to it. I know that what becomes of people when they die is among them; you could say that it's basically the same. Both [concepts came to] function along the same line of thought as I wrote the stories. Sometimes my thoughts just flow out like that, even though pyreflies distinctly aren't green."
--"When you speak of the dead becoming [something] green, do you perhaps [mean]......?"
Nojima
"Yes. In my mind, pyreflies and VII's Lifestream are the same substance."
Kitase
"Nojima-san's even considering making use of an idea like this -- [with] an addition to the idea of life origin -- in a sequel to FFX International. That's just a little bit of the thought that's been going into what to do with VII."
Nojima
"That's right. There's something like the Lifestream [in X's world also]......."
--"'An addition to the idea of life origin'......does that mean you're going to revise life origin concepts or something?"
Nojima
"I can't say......it's a secret (laughs)."
Kitase
"It's a surprise with how someone from the story conducts theirself with regards to the Farplane."
Interview with FFX-2 creators from the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania
(Page 723)
"So, what of this child, Shinra......"
--"Among these latest stories, 'connected' is one of the key words becoming applicable, isn't it?"
[Daisuke] Watanabe
"I personally like the word 'connected,' but there's one aspect where that applies well."
Nojima
"During the game's progression, various vague things will be tied together to reveal it."
--"For example, the name 'Shinra' suggests a connection with VII? There's [what's said] in the 'Graduation Mission' scenario [ -- 'graduation' referring to Shinra being soon to leave the Gullwings -- ], and the 'I am not alone in my thinking' line from the 'Rin's Detective Work' scenario seems to have some particular significance."
Nojima
"Actually, it does. After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after this story, I think."
--"So VII's story is after that?"
Nojima
"Well, you could say the feelings I have are like that. When I think about the characters, those are the kinds of feelings I already have. Shinra is a good child, but his descendants are going to end up becoming like the president [of Shin-Ra] (laughs)."
Watanabe
"With you said about VII, after seeing your episodes with Shinra, one of the people on the [development] staff said that the first shot of the Bevelle Underground 'gives the impression of somewhere else.'"
[Motomu] Toriyama
"Certainly; it looks like the opening shot of Midgar in VII."
Information on Shinra of the Gullwings in the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania
Omega (Page 563)
Shinra is a boy who supports the Gullwings, the group which the main protagonist, Yuna, belongs to. He carries a name that gives him an association to the Shin-Ra Company, and he is researching a method that could utilize the energy of "the life force that flows through our planet." The results of this cannot be seen in FFX-2, but maybe one day his descendants will establish a "company that supplies the energy of the planet"?
(Accompanying screenshot caption)
The words of Shinra, which can be heard at the end of the story. This world has something similar to the Lifestream that is worthy of attention.
Interview with FFVII creators from the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania
Omega (Page 571)
--"At E3 (the world's largest game show, which was held in America), as a demo for the PS3, the opening of FFVII was shown; was its purpose to serve as something of a preliminary announcement?
Kitase
"Well, in regard to that, please think of it as a mere demonstration. Because the production period for its imagery was [going to be] so short, we made the opening of FFVII, as it was easy to represent. Beyond that, there is no particular deeper meaning.
--"In that case, it's not a remake; when might you be making something to serve as the direct continuation of FFX-2?"
Kitase
"Producing something like that holds the same problem as a remake [of FFVII], as our schedule just isn't open for it [right now]."
Ryu Kaze 05:08, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks for that. But I don't see anything new here. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 18:38, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The interview with Kitase and Nojima from the Ultimania Omega for X is new, as is the stuff from the Ultimania Omega for VII. Ryu Kaze 19:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant that there is no new solid evidence that the worlds are the same. Just more hinting that the worlds are 'connected' somehow. But that could mean anything. Intresting stuff, though.--JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 00:18, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well they aren't the same world. Like Nojima said, Shinra's descendants go to VII's world. Anyway, the new solid evidence is that Yoshinori Kitase (lead developer of FF, director and lead developer of FFVII -- because Sakaguchi was away at the time making the FF movie -- the Producer of its Compilation, as well as the Producer of X and X-2) not only gave Nojima the freedom to connect VII with X however he pleased, but also expressed that he knew what Nojima had planned and approved it. At this point, it's undeniably official (though it was clearly official before too). In that last interview, they even asked Kitase about the possibility of making a game to portray what happens between X-2 and VII, though he said that their schedule is too packed for it right now. Ryu Kaze 01:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think there are enough evidence about the connection, but I'd really like a game set between X-2 and VII, it would make our job a lot easier since there would be no doubt about the fact for anyone. By the way, thanks for the ultimania translations, this is very interesting stuff, I like your work.--DarkEvil 23:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome, and I'm glad you like it. Totally agree about how much easier an actual game would make this for us; alas, "too busy" they say. Ryu Kaze 12:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Authenticity of FFVII-FFX/X-2 connection reinforced

message: Thought there might be some of you here interested in this. I'd promised Renmiri to let her know when it was ready, but I thought some of you others might have an interest too.
I've been translating some stuff from the Ultimania guidebooks for Final Fantasy X-2 and you can read that here. Also, to those of you interested in VII, I've added lots of new stuff in the last month to the Ultimania Omega translations FAQ for it. Enjoy guys. Ryu Kaze 02:35, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ''X-2 Ultimania''s translations

message: I'm removing the  and  fields from the infoboxes of the main series Final Fantasy games. I find them useless because this is not always the case for neither the release times nor storyline continuity: Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2 are debately the only direct prequel-sequel pair with at least one game in the main series (aside from Compilation of Final Fantasy VII). Saying things like Final Fantasy XI follows Final Fantasy X-2 denotes major complications as well. It's also fairly obvious to most readers that II follows I and III follows II and so on. If you find something wrong with my edits, please revert me and explain your reasons here. ~ Hibana 02:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch! Renmiri 13:53, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections on my part. Ryu Kaze 16:47, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing certain infobox fields

message: Hi, I just happened to be passing by and thought you should know that I changed Final Fantasy XIII from a redirect into its own page, now that it has finally been acknowledged by respectable sources as being worked on - although to what extent it is not yet known, but I think that given how many people would go around looking for information on such a thing, it would be good that the article is kept both up to date and informative, even if it is to let people know that little about the game is yet known. {subst:unsigned|Loony BoB}}
:Cool! --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 20:41, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Fantasy XIII

message: Given the nature of the articles, might it not be a good idea to merge the three stub articles about the three expansion packs into a single article? Caerwine Caerwhine 22:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so. I meant to suggest that a while back and forgot. Ryu Kaze 14:05, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a plan. Crazyswordsman 16:27, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm actually not for this plan (suprise, suprise). Simply because these expansion pack articles could be expanded so much more than what they currently detail. It does become unclear after a certain point about what was in the original game and what was in earlier expansion packs, but with the release of the latest one Treasures of Aht Urhgan I'm certain there is going to more the write. Also details on the sales/popularity and various changes that occured between the two expansion packs. I'm actually on a little bit of a wiki-break at the moment but if I take these under my view, can we leave them as it atm? Also I'd be a little unclear as what you would title such a merged article as... Final Fantasy XI expansion packs? Not many people are going to search for such articles with that phrase. Cheers -- CHANLORD [T]/[C]  05:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: Sorry. I would also like to point out that this template shows all the FFXI related articles.
Now, I'm not saying that simply the small number of articles means that we should keep them but I think it would be better to Expand and Improve the current articles then to Merge them, especially considering the number articles relating to other Final Fantasy titles. Final Fantasy XI titles aren't covered as much in this WikiProject (which I am working ... slowly to change) but the changes that happened in the Vana'diel should give you an indication on the amount of additional information that can be included in these articles (but not fancruft or anything) -- CHANLORD [T]/[C]  05:38, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge of FF XI expansion packs