Talk:Megaphone desktop tool

message: This is new.  A political toolbar.  Distributed by a government, no less.  It's so new that none of the software sites seem to have analyzed it yet.  Watch for reviews and update the article. please. --John Nagle 20:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Now, a political toolbar 

message: I can't find any authoritative sources yet, but there are discussions on multiple blogs arguing that this whole thing might be a scam to get people to install adware or spyware.  See
* Expat Egghead
* Boycott Watch
Google can't find any relevant references to "Megaphone" on "www.mfa.gov.il", the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs site, even though they're supposedly sponsoring it. Something to keep watching.  
--John Nagle 17:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: StandWithUs says it too. But StandWithUs.com has phony domain registration info (123 Street, Los Angeles, California 12345,       United States 333-555-6666).  Still checking.  --John Nagle 20:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: StandWithUs.com claims to be part of the Israel Emergency Alliance, and, according to the Jewish Foundation of Greater Los Angeles , which gave them $50,000, they are.  --John Nagle 20:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: "giyus.org", which actually hosts the toolbar, has Whois data for "Domains by proxy", so it's one of those "cloaked domains".  I'm getting suspicious. --John Nagle 21:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Boycott Watch now says site is legitimate, and that they've spoken to Amir Gissin, the director of the Public Affairs Division at the Israeli Foreign Ministry.  --John Nagle 23:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The "backdoor" clause in the EULA has changed.  It's now "You understand and agree that Giyus.Org may provide updates, patches and/or new versions of the Software from time to time, including automatic updates that will be installed on your computer, with notice to You, as needed to continue to use the Services, and You hereby authorize such installations."  It used to say "with or without notice to you".  --John Nagle 23:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The EULA now says that "gyius.org" is "a not-for-profit Israeli association in formation".   That would imply they have to register under the U.S. Foreign Agents Registration Act. --John Nagle 23:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the toolbar a scam? 

message: If we think that this software may actually be adware or spyware, why does the article contain a link to the site where people can download it?   6SJ7 21:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because i think thats just John being paranoid. I think its exactly what it says on the tin! a tool created by one or more Jewish geeks to help their people in a non-violent way by controlling public opinion. This has become very common, especially in britain with ad-hoc political activism groupings on one issue becoming very powerful. Propaganda is not just for states anymore, just like 21c war non-stae actors are fighting all over the place. E-mail lists have done this job for a while, this is the next level of programing up, and i doubt this is the only one out there (if it is it wont be long before there are more).Hypnosadist 22:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a different story.  I agree with some of what you say, which is why I don't see why this thing is notable enough for an article.  Anti-Israel people are doing the same things on the web that this "tool" does, maybe using the same technology (perhaps distributed in a more discreet manner) and maybe  using different technology.  So what's the big deal?  I just think it is puzzling that the same person who creates the article says that the software may be spyware or adware, and yet the link to the software remains.  6SJ7 22:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because we don't know.  Originally, I thought it was legitimate, and notable because it was being distributed for a government.  But then I discovered that the thing has many of the hallmarks of an adware/spyware type scam - cloaked domains, phony domain registration info, no useful contact info, an unknown organization, endorsements that can't be verified, an overreaching EULA, and hints of remote update capability.  On the other hand, it does seem to be endorsed by some known pro-Israel organizations.  But it's not that unusual for some legitimate organization to end up loosely affilated with adware/spyware, usually because they signed up for some advertising service without asking enough questions. Look at the history of Kazaa.  In time, we should know more about this thing.  For now, the situation is ambiguous.  The article reflects that ambiguity.  --John Nagle 22:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I think it is notable for being Propaganda, darknet technology, p2p and as John rightly says possibly spyware or freeware. It is in modern military terms a non-state actor in third wave (information) warfare and is part of 2006 Middle East conflict in that capacity. The Times of london thinks its notable. This is so many diffent things its amazing.Hypnosadist 23:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I took out "Darknet", because that's more of a peer-to-peer thing.  This is more centralized.  And this is a significant development, as noted.  If this catches on, there may be toolbars from all over the political spectrum.   --John Nagle 23:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hypnosadist, please.  Information warfare?  It's a bunch of (mostly) kids noodling around on the Internet.  Nobody pays any attention to the results of Internet polls anyway, as everybody knows they are unscientific.   6SJ7 23:32, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem a little too easily dismissive of what is obviously a powerful propaganda tool, and ballot-stuffing  internet polls is only one of the features (which is troubling enough). It does appear to be spyware, or could be easily turned into such with the remote update. Why the secrecy? It's highly suspicious,  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.56.165.45 (talk) 15:09, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh, and:  "Darknet"?  This is a term I was unfamiliar with before, but based on the Wikipedia article on the subject, this is nothing close to a "darknet".  This thing is announced all over the Internet.  As a propaganda effort, it is clumsy and amateurish because the first step (ok, maybe the second step) was essentially to let everybody in the entire world know about it.  For that reason, I have doubted the authenticity of it.  But perhaps I should never underestimate the capacity of human beings to act in clumsy and amateurish ways.  6SJ7 23:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let me just clarify, the software itself is not clumsy and amateurish, I am sure it is brilliant.  Of course, to me, almost all software is brilliant (since I don't know the secret handshake), except I would like to have a few words some day with the people who developed Microsoft Word.  But as propaganda and public relations, this megaphone thing, especially the way it has been splashed all over the Internet for everybody to make a big deal out of, strikes me as decidedly bush-league.   6SJ7 23:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

text: LOL 6SJ7 and democracy's are made up of well educated voters who care about politics and vote unemotionally on all issues LOL. Look put it this way, back in the day the winner of a war was the side that killed the most/best. Today it don't work that way (at least not in the "developed" world), the bombing at Qana did not make the war nearer a win for Isreal and that was because of public opinion. I know they are mostly kids but then so are many of the hezbollah fighters and isreali army squadies but yes war is strong word but unfortunately true enough.Hypnosadist 23:53, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And yet what has been the result of this "megaphone" episode?  Favorable publicity for Israel?  I would say the unfavorable repercussions of this for Israel and its supporters are running at about 10-to-1 over the reverse.   6SJ7 00:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I didn't say it was any good!Hypnosadist 00:09, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, in that case, I assume you would not oppose a request to delete this article.  After all, Wikipedia certainly doesn't have an article on every failed public relations effort in history.  6SJ7 18:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

text: This is very notable and getting more so, its on advertised on loads of jewish websites it wasn't just a few days ago. This is part of the Hasbara about the war in the middle east at the moment. We also have NO WAY of saying how many people are using this but it has got a lot bigger just watching this thing over the last week. We have pages for each of the 401 Pokemon, this is notable compared to a lot of the pop culture sh*t that is on wikipedia. It does meet the notability requirements of wikipedia as it is getting coverage in Major newspapers and on the web. This is also a cultural phenomina as much as a piece of code, just like many of the most interesting pieces of code. I'm atracted to edit this article as a expert in mind control (the hypno is not for show). Mr Nagle a notable web computer programmer in his own right is interested in the code and who is supplying it (and to what end!).6SJ7 something, a link on wikipedia brought you here, this diversity is part of its notabilty. I would fight any AFD with any fair means at my disposal.Hypnosadist 19:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't worry, I probably won't.  But, "mind control"?  From a widely-publicized program that allows a few kids to cast automatic votes on Internet polls?  You can't be serious.  And by the way, I may be old-fashioned, but if I am facing an enemy, I would still much prefer that they be armed with a computer than with a gun, bomb, missile, etc.   6SJ7 16:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Mind control" is exactly what they are atempting with this software, and whats more they say so!(the fools!(or is that what the conspiracy wants us to fnord?)). There are two propaganda effects that this software is trying to utilise by altering the outcome of these votes in the media, the common man and Argumentum ad nauseam. The common man is the simple idea is that most people want to be part of the group, and if the group thinks isreal thinks is in the right, They Do. As i say how effective this campain will be, we don't know Yet but its got a long time to work.Hypnosadist 17:26, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Toolbar download site

message: According to this http://www.giyus.org/partners.html and i sampled 5 notables its real as they have links on their sites. This is getting a lot bigger in Isreal.Hypnosadist 23:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lot of new support

message: The website says "Help us by reporting relevant articles and surveys" and gives an email address. This is asymetric P2P!?! but i do think this counts as they have been asking for input for all them time i've seen it, so it is some kind of friends network. This is close enough to have a link in the see also section.Hypnosadist 23:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Darknet

message: Collactive, the company with the technology behind the Megaphone Toolbar, got a writeup in the Wall Street Journal yesterday: "Web Sites' Lists Of 'Most Viewed' Too Easy to Game?".  This thing is now being used enough that sites with voting systems, like Digg, are unhappy about it.    --John Nagle 18:46, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting article.  It makes it even more perplexing that Wikipedia has an article about one user of the technology (giyus.org) but not about others, and apparently not even about the technology itself.  I notice that we have an article about Microsoft Word, but we don't have articles about everybody who uses it.  Perhaps the same should apply here.  6SJ7 19:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well first thing to say is collactive is copyrighted 2007 and megaphone was made mid 2006. It seems that the megaphone project worked so well that they have set up thier own company. Someone should add something about megaphone now being powered by collactive inc. If collactive inc gets many more notable articles the software and company may also need thier own page. Hypnosadist 02:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Created Collactive.  --John Nagle 06:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collactive 

message: Moved "footnotes" tag from the article space to the talk space. The article has plenty of references, but they're links instead of <ref>tags. That template shouldn't be used in that situation.   But someone might want to convert the references, so it's worth a mention on the talk page. --John Nagle (talk) 04:05, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved "footnotes" tag 

message: I visited the site and it tried to download a Firefox version, although the firewall wouldn't let it through.  Apparently it's no longer IE-only. But that's original research, so I can't put this in the article. --John Nagle (talk) 04:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Firefox support added 

message: "The Megaphone desktop tool is a Microsoft Windows application distributed by the Jews and other pro-Israel organizations, through the Giyus.org website, in their quest for global domination."
Is this serious!!!? This is an embarrassment to wikipedia. Must be changed immediately. Utter medieval shameless antisemitism. Snake666 (talk) 22:21, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just looks like ordinary vandalism from an anon at . Problem reverted within 12 minutes. --John Nagle (talk) 05:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Although if you don't mind me saying there does seem to be a bit of POV in this, without the vandalism... --84.109.90.63 (talk) 06:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this serious?

message: Apparently the "call to cyber arms", as it were, has been making the rounds again. Luckily articles relating to the use of the program and Israels efforts have been showing up on sites as the opening post, therefore any attempts to SPAM it just gets the thread bumped to the top and explains it all again. But I suggest wikipedians keep a look-out for any new information regarding its new speratic use in regards to Israels new public relations and media campaign in relation to the current Gaza conflict for use in this article in relation to 2008-09. 60.230.212.121 (talk) 12:22, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm seeing that on blogs, but not yet on a news source. Let's wait and see if the press picks this up. --John Nagle (talk) 04:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Israels and WUJS use of Megaphone for the Gaza Conflict 

message: Some recent edits put in references to blogs, and edits after that took out some references to reliable sources.  So I rolled back the article to August, 2008, and am attempting to go forward from there.  I've changed some of the notes about features to mention that they refer to the original version.
: I merged in the new "Reception" section, unchanged except for some footnote number consolidation, into a version with the old "Software", "Press coverage", and "Commercialization" sections deleted in a previous edit.  At this point, everything in there recently is in the article.  Do we need to delete anything? --John Nagle (talk) 17:35, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article was kind of a mess 

message: Collactive commercialized the Megaphone desktop tool and did a rewrite.  The Collactive version ("Collactive Web Assistant") is general-purpose (it can be configured for any political agenda), and it seems that the current version of the Megaphone tool is now a customized version of Collactive. --John Nagle (talk) 04:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collactive, Megaphone, etc. 

message: In the last three days, there have been some big deletions by anons.  References were removed.  Reverted back to before this set of changes. The product is still active.   --John Nagle (talk) 07:07, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed dead link deleted by anon by adding "archiveurl" link to Internet Archive. The page is in the archive. --John Nagle (talk) 07:10, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Sudden rash of deletions by anons

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Megaphone desktop tool. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081013001738/http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/12/72291 to http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/12/72291
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:04, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Megaphone desktop tool. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090216200329/http://giyus.org/aboutus.html to http://www.giyus.org/aboutus.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://forum.giyus.org/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=01208e439cca6172cc2d2d6a21ef759d&topic=193.0
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090216200329/http://giyus.org/aboutus.html to http://www.giyus.org/aboutus.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:30, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified