Talk:Ill Met by Moonlight (film)

message: Until two months ago, this article was about the film, but now its focus is on the book, and the film section has been pushed down so far down the page that many won't notice it, although it's one of the classic British war films. An article about the book is very worthwhile, but it should be made as a separate article, linked to the film article.
Although it would be more logical to hand over this article title to the book and and create a new article called Ill Met By Moonlight (film), in this case I advocate the opposite for three reasons:
*1) the film is so much more well-known than the book
*2) the talk page mainly deals with the film
*3) the existing two links to Spanish and Italian Wiki are links to articles about the film - and one can assume that any further language links will be the same, as it's doubtful that this book has ever been translated into any other languages, due to its very specialised content.
I could just do this split myself, but as I haven't been involved in this article previously (I just stumbled across it when looking up information about the film, and became rather confused when I ended up in an article about a book with no reference to the film - until I scrolled down and found it further down) and as there are some people currently very active in editing this article, I prefer to just suggest the split.
Once done, the two articles could be headed by the following two templates:
* At the top of this article: 
* At the top of the book article: 
Cheers! Thomas Blomberg (talk) 09:20, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There wouldn't be a film without the book having been written, so I think this article should stay as the book.  Most of the material for the film could be split off for the film, and titled the usual way for a film adapted from the book.  Name (film).Parkwells (talk) 20:56, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia has primary topic guidelines to follow. The primary topic is supposed to be the one that readers are most likely to seek out in a search for the term. There are some situations where the book is enduring in popularity, and the book is adapted into a film, in which case the book can be the primary topic and the film can be a secondary topic. However, there are also situations where there are popular films based on relatively obscure books, in which case the film is the primary topic and the book is a secondary topic. This article was about the film from December 2004 up to May 2011, at which point an editor converted it to be about both the book and the film. I think that the article's longevity as a film article means that the primary topic is the film, and we should treat the book as a secondary topic, having coverage about the printed work at Ill Met by Moonlight (book). We can also review article traffic statistics and do search engine tests to validate this further. Erik (talk | contribs) 21:07, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

text: We cannot compare this book to War and Peace, which is a definite classic. Its article has been around since 2002. So under the primary topic guidelines, the War and Peace article is like a immovable rock because it has major educational value. The issue is grayer when it comes to less familiar works. For example, Road to Perdition is the primary topic where its source material Road to Perdition (comics) is a secondary topic. Regarding the split itself, I think it was a technical discussion. A given topic should retain its page history. For example, if its article needs a new name, then we do not copy the content into the empty space of that new article. That would mean only one line in the page history. So instead, we should move the article, and all of its page history, to the new space. So let's say everyone supported making the book the primary topic. You would move the article to Ill Met by Moonlight (film). When this happens, Ill Met by Moonlight will redirect there. That redirect can be changed into the book article. But in this case, I think that the book article should be secondary, and since it does not have much of a page history as the film does, we can start a new article. Being a secondary topic isn't lesser per se; it's just that readers are more likely to be looking for the film. The film article can link to the book article; it is just one extra click after coming here. Erik (talk | contribs) 15:10, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would say to that then isn't it good to learn from an electronic encyclopedia what the true origins of the film are and the real history and the book behind it?!! There are many Wiki pages that refer directly to the book which direct to this page as Ill Met by Moonlight. I do not mind if it really must be split - athough I can't see why, if other books are dealt with by internal reference to film adaptation, this one can't as well. What I do feel very strongly is that the words Ill Met by Moonlight must lead to the book. Parkwells suggests Ill Met by Moonlight (film)  for a page  on the film as this makes clear the point of adaptation. It also significant that when the film was launched it was given the quite different name Night Ambush for wider release. So again the true pedigree of Ill Met by Moonlight is the book. The fact is that the Kreipe Operation was one of the most successful SOE operations that is remembered. Frankly a jolly film as the primary Wiki reference to this operation does no credit to anyone in my view nor to the purpose of Wikipedia - to dessimnate and share accurate knowledge worldwide. The implication of the logic of using the age of a Wiki page as the guiding principle is that old knowledge/information on Wiki is more important that new knowledge which seems absurd to me especially if new knowledge is adding to the quality and understanding of old knowldge. Huguº 18:12, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split proposal 

message: Now that you've split them, are you going to repair the links for everything that linked to Ill Met by Moonlight as the film? -- SteveCrook (talk) 23:40, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: and , can you please repair the links? You can see them here. They link to Ill Met by Moonlight for the film article, but since it is moved, these articles should now link to Ill Met by Moonlight (film). Erik (talk | contribs) 00:11, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've done all the ones I could find, but someone else should check them -- SteveCrook (talk) 00:26, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

text:  Thanks for the help - I shall look through but may take me a few days as away Huguº 15:23, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repairing Links 

message: How come the link to the Discussion page from Ill Met by Moonlight takes you to the Discussion page for Ill Met by Moonlight (film)? Shouldn't they now have separate discussion pages? -- SteveCrook (talk) 23:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems to be fixed now, thanks -- SteveCrook (talk) 00:27, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to Discussion Page 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified