Template talk:Birth date

message: I have added an error message to the sandbox version that generates a message when the template is incorrectly used for a non-Gregorian date. If there is consensus for this change, I will ask a template editor to make the change. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:35, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Wherever this change is documented, it should mention that while a year earlier than 1582 guarantees the microformat should not be emitted, and thus the template should not be used, later dates might also be Julian, and if so, the template should not be used. Jc3s5h (talk) 15:42, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

text: Sorry to be raising questions at this stage but the sandbox has code in it to check for "YYYY-MM-DD". What is that? Was the sandbox copied from the main template before editing? Also, if there is code to show an error if year < 1582, why not just omit the microformat instead? That would not solve the problem noted by Jc3s5h above, but it would be useful. This link shows the diff between the current main and sandbox templates. Johnuniq (talk) 09:55, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the trim code per Template talk:Birth date/Archive 2#Template-protected edit request on 5 June 2016. As I understand it, removing the microformat will disable the ability of other websites to automatically read wikipedia (see Help:Microformats). I will ping User:Pigsonthewing as he is the Founder of Wikipedia:WikiProject Microformats. Celia Homeford (talk) 10:20, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What I meant was to include the microformat if the year is 1582 or later, but omit it otherwise. Johnuniq (talk) 10:44, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been discussed before; see Template talk:Birth date/Archive 2 passim. My takeaway from that: a) the Gregorian calendar was not universally introduced in 1582; basing this template's behaviour only on that simple numerical comparison will have unintended consequences. b) This template's documentation already advises against its use when inappropriate; this can only be decided in each case. c) The sky is not going to fall in when this template is mistakenly used inappropriately. Summary: It's probably better to do nothing here; when inappropriate usage is found in articles, the date should be rewritten raw, without the template. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:00, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: But dates before 1582 are always wrong. I see only benefits from easily identifying articles where we know the date is emitted incorrectly. Celia Homeford (talk) 11:06, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: A copy of the latest draft of ISO 8601, which I obtained while it was posted at the Library of Congress website (but since removed), which claims to agree with the current 2004 version of the standard in the section of interest, stated "Values in the range [0000] through [1582] shall only be used by mutual agreement of the partners in information interchange." Since the hCard microformats follow the ISO 8601 standard, and since the described mutual agreement does not exist, years less than 1583 are always incorrect. The criterion   is the wrong criterion for the suppression of the microformat; the year should be 1583. Jc3s5h (talk) 13:00, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:09, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Yes, that's true. What do you think about my feeling that removing the template would lead to problems such as the perpetual urge by wikignomes to add what they might think was a missing template when they find the article? Perhaps there could be a parameter to cause suppression of the metadata; that would make the edit self-documenting. Johnuniq (talk) 00:30, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: When there is not appropriate to create the metadata, the template serves no purpose. I'm not enthusiastic about adding worthless templates, with an extra template to boot, when the template is useless. To bad we can't create a system like that used at WikiTree which requires users to pass a quiz before they are able to enter old dates. Maybe it would suffice to create a Userbox that would allow people to brag they passed the old dates quiz. Jc3s5h (talk) 12:31, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-Gregorian dates