Talk:Absolute music

message: This entire article is pretty confusing, but the sections "The Formalist debate" and "Opposition to instrumental music" are--what the hell? I am by no means a Nietzsche scholar, but the Nietzsche quote in the section on instrumental music is utterly misleading. Nietzsche himself wrote instrumental music, and he speaks in The Birth of Tragedy of how music cannot be made to follow the meaning of ideas; music qua music is instrumental, even if it happens to include sung words. I'm removing the Nietzsche quote. Ratiuglink (talk) 21:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I would add to this that there are no citations under the heading "Oppositions to Absolute Music," and the quotations seem suspect. I removed the Hegel references because they seemed downright wrong and made no reference to any source. I don't know what it means to talk about art having -- or lacking -- a "right to exist," but it certainly has nothing to do with anything Hegel ever said. I left the references to Wagner, but somebody who knows a bit really ought to look into them. --Brijohn6882 (talk) 23:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Very rough article

message: I hope everyone is happy with this, more classical pages were linking to absolute music anyway.  --Chinasaur 08:33, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: What is the difference between the two terms. Why is absolute preferable? It seems to me less clear, it seems like the expression "she's really pregnant". Hyacinth 04:46, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: What does "absolute music" mean? What does "abstract music" mean? Hyacinth 07:35, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolute music is a kind of music, the kind without meaning. Music from many genres is considered to be absolute music. Abstract music is a specific genre of music based on its musical style where the sounds do no represent anything real. All abstract music is absolute music. In electronica similar genres to abstract include experimental, drone, noise, chill, ambient and acoustic. - Shiftchange (talk) 04:37, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved from Abstract Music to Absolute Music

message: From Cleanup: Abstract music - gobbledygook
*This listing was moved from Cleanup by SimonP, but he currently has no opinion on whether it should be deleted.
*delete. Lefty 15:08, 2004 Apr 24 (UTC)
*Keep: appears to be a real, though minor, musical niche. I suspect that "abstract music" has been around for a long time, although I don't know enough about musical history to be sure. Wile E. Heresiarch 16:06, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: (No vote) ????? I thought "abstract music" meant anything that wasn't program music, the latter being stuff like The Sorceror's Apprentice or Symphonie Fantastique or Pacific 231 or Scheherazade or "An Alpine Symphony" or "Grand Canyon Suite" in which the music is deliberately descriptive of a story line and you are supposed to be relating the sound you hear to marching broomsticks, or lustful longing, or steam locomotives, or Sinbad's ship on the sea, or rainstorms, or sunrises-mule braying-storm-and-sunset... sorry, got a little carried away there. Anyway isn't 99.5% of all classical music abstract? Dpbsmith 17:38, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: ''From VfD:''

message: I removed the following sentence:
:"It is to be experienced purely as music."
As, though I'm not sure what "purely as music" means, it appears that any other form of enjoyment or consideration is unacceptable. Hyacinth 05:00, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed

message: Could someone explain in plain English what this means, please:
:"Absolute music (sometimes abstract music) is a concept in music that describes music as an art form separated from formalisms or other considerations"
I'm a music graduate, and so far as I can understand this, it appears to be nonsense: surely formalism is quite often a characteristic of "absolute music". In any case, if that sentence is tripping me up, I don't think it's a very good opening to a lede which should be a straight-forward introduction to someone looking for explanation/definition. Unless someone can make sense of this, I may come back and try to clarify it myself. Alfietucker (talk) 04:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening clause

message: Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth (talk) 00:39, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional citations