Talk:Through the Fire and Flames

message: was the name of this song changed for the video?
i noticed that in the caption on the video it said
'dragonforce
through the wire'
and i dont tihnk it mentioned the actuall name
it might be worth putting a redirect from 'through the wire' if that is the case
:Where did you see this? If it was on TV, or a video on the 'net that was nicked from TV, maybe it was just a spelling error. The official videos at Roadrunner Records have no caption. --Dayn 05:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: through the wire

message: I removed "*Was voted best song in the nation world cup in Germany.
" from the trivia section because it was uncited, had bad grammar, and was just plain outrageous.
Ball of pain 20:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Germany's favorite song=

message: i think he was drinking water instead of beer i'll change it  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.80.244.3 (talk) 06:46, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  beer/water 

message: I heard this was a bonus track not a career mode song. I doubt they would make a song which they think is impossible a req for beating the game. --96.233.54.238 01:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: SPOILER ALERT! You unlock the song by beating the game, then you're supposed to play it while the credits roll. I guess it's technically part of career mode, but obviously not a requirement since you have to have already beat the game to unlock it. END SPOILER Cgy flames 00:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

text: It is a bonus song. Technically on the bonus list. You CAN play it during the credits as well but it's pretty much intended to be played in Career/QP on the bonus list. 98.217.245.137 (talk) 19:14, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  By it's encore? 

message: Alot of what it says under GH3 looks to be a matter of opinion only.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.11.5.219 (talk) 19:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Published sources, including several reviews of the game and a Guiness World Records publication, have stated that this song is the most difficult in the Guitar Hero franchise. If there are published sources that disagree with this, feel free to show them so the article can be modified accordingly. -- saberwyn 08:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure not one of those reviewers or the Guiness World Records author who wrote up this song as being the hardest are able to complete it, I am able to complete every song in the guitar hero series and know from this that ttfaf isn't the hardest (though is one of the hardest). Correspondance with other players of similar and greater skill would confirm this though I doubt forum posts, youtube comments and videos are up to wikipedias standards for references. Scorehero does however show that this song has been fc'ed by 6 people, whereas tdwdtg has only ever been fc'ed by 1 (http://www.scorehero.com/top_scores.php?group=4&game=0&diff=4). From the difficulty of these achievements and the status of scorehero in the competitive gh community I thiink it unlikley anyone would have fc'ed either of these songs and not posted their score to the site. -- Toby.e.hawkins (talk) 08:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, forum posts and the like are not reliable sources. If you can find reliable, published sources (see Wikipedia:Reliable Sources) that support your view, it can be incorporated in. -- saberwyn 23:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  GHIII 

message: It says it's widely considered the hardest song in the GH series, but the game came out today. I don't think opinion spreads that rapidly. Magicallydajesus 07:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It can when I saw a video on YouTube of the song being completed on expert two days before the game's release. Luigi "Kurai" III 20:07, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: The Note count in this song is infact 3777. I attempted to play this thing on practice, and accomplished 2077 of them. Changed.Konraden88 17:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the note count appears to have a very odd property; I was doing some tests: my first practice run-through gave me 3722; second: 3726; third: 3725. It's very strange... Dagron12345 02:53, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 3722 is the correct note count. 98.217.245.137 (talk) 19:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  GH 3 matter 

message: "Totham can be seen drinking beer during the solo". Where is he seen drinking beer? In the audio recording? Is this describing the video or live performance or what? Someone who knows more about the band should qualify this statement. Cgy flames 01:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He truly is drinking something during the solo, but I don't believe it is possible to say that's beer.Victao lopes (talk) 16:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK people the bottle is a green stubby, which would denote a Heinekin bottle, if you flip to the middle of your inhuman rampage CD booklet, you will see that in almost every picture with sam in it, he's holding a Heinekin. He's also known to be a heavy drinker and is usually drunk or close to it while he's playing, infact on the DF official website in the bio of him, one of his stage tricks is actually listed as "hands free beer drinking". So tell me, why then would he be drinking water out of a green glass stubby bottle? seriously... i dont even think the guy drinks water.  
Imperialconqueror (talk) 21:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Drinking beer during solo? 

message: I think we should replace the download link. First I do not believe it is Cross-Operating system. And Second it isn't free it costs money to get a membership to get a permanent download.Aquzenn (talk) 18:18, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Free" download 

message: :Image:DFIR.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 05:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:DFIR.jpg

message: That just made me laugh. Either put water or beer.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Screen317 (talk • contribs) 19:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Energy Drink!?!?

message: if one was to watch this video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TzZhSstHRqo&feature=related
you can see that herman himself is using an extra whammy bar to produce the sound effect so since i am too lazy to edit this article, someone else should. Pidgeonman (talk) 19:07, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source other than your opinion from watching the video clip?? -- saberwyn 23:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if I'm looking at the same video page you are (I've followed the link above), but I can't find mention of anything regarding what happened, except in the comments, which are personal opinions posted by random people who've watched the video. If someone could provide an interview or professional review where the incident is mentioned and described, that would be exactly what is needed to source this and settle it once and for all. -- saberwyn 09:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "broken" whammy bar

message: I've removed the list of other songs that may, possibly, be, in the personal opinion of a single editor, on a similar level of difficulty to this song because there is no sourcing, and its all original research and personal opinion anyway, and adds unnecesary weight to the article which is supposed to be about the song, not the video game.
Now, if someone could dredge up some published gaming reviews that allow us to say that "According to [insert gaming magazine/website here], the difficulty of Through the Fire and Flames is on par with [song 1] and [song 2]...", there would be no problems. Until that time, having it in the article is going to be a siern call to every Average Joe who plays the game and thinks "Fire and Flames was easy, but I hate Raining Blood by Slayer, so that must be the most difficult song in the game" to add it to the article and bloat it with material irrelevant to the song. -- saberwyn 23:49, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of other songs 

message: This page has been getting edited daily for over a month now and nearly half of them has been due to or removal of vandalism. I am calling for a lock on this page against new members, at least for a few months when they hype from the band and the game calms down. --LuvataciousSkull (talk) 14:55, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temporary Lock? 

message: My friend thinks this was sped up because of the drum beat and the pure insanity of the guitar, but i don't think so. Does anyone know?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.200.149.11 (talk) 20:33, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sped up? 

message: Found a news article that appears to specifically mention what Totman was drinking, but it needs someone with access to the Highbeam subscription service. -- saberwyn 09:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The Drinking Issue

message: Sounds perfect, it should not be called "Through THE fire and flames" Its mostly pronounced without the "the", even in GH3. RkORToN 23:55, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Through ---Fire and Flames 

message: Everyone agrees this was an amazing accomplishment, but as I explained here regarding Jordan, this article should be about the song, not what happens in the Guitar Hero community. --Ouzo (talk) 13:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  FC by iamchris4life 

message: An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, :Image:TTFAF.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted.  -- saberwyn 05:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Entirely agree. --Ouzo (talk) 17:58, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image:TTFAF.jpg listed for deletion 

message: This article says that this song was used in the first video made by Dragonforce. Thats not true. The first video was made before the band even released their debut album. The song was Valley of the Damned and I think it was the demo version. --Arm (talk) 10:06, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: first video?

message: The difficulty is due to the complex hammer-ons and pull-offs, and the extremely fast, intricate solos, including one that lasts for two minutes and four seconds. The song contains the second-fastest stream of notes in the entire series, with two sections of the song reaching an average speed of 26.67 notes per second; these sections are second only to a very small ascending stream of notes in Santana's "Black Magic Woman", which reaches 28.6 NPS."Interesting Info About Guitar Hero"; see the "Which songs have the fastest section of atleast three notes?" section The player must also play samples of keyboard and computerized noises comprising the 3,722 notes in the song.
Most of this material is comprised of unreferenced sources, original research, weasel words, with the only reference being a Scorehero thread which has been locked and moved to the site's wiki. Besides all that, no one except those who play the game would care about the NPS or the fact there are 3722 notes in the song. Anyone disagree? --Ouzo (talk) 16:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If someone can find reliable sources for this content, then it can be re-added. -- saberwyn 21:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true that no one may care, but there's a reliable source. It's called using a calculator. You can go into the note chart and do (BPM / 60) * NPB and that will give you the NPS of the section. So anyone can go check the math provided they have a note chart. 98.217.245.137 (talk) 19:25, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't want to sound like an ass so forgive me if this comes off the wrong way but I believe we refer to that as original research which is not counted as a verifiable source. It's a wonky rule, I know. For a second opinion, I'd like to remind you all that some of us suffer from extreme DGAFism, IAR, and have a bold complex. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 05:30, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: GH3 Detail section removed

message: I've removed the paragraph-sentance on what key or keys the song is performed in because, despite being the subject of continuous editing as to what the key(s) is/are, this has been tagged as unsourced since September 2008, and has likely been in the article unsourced since before that. I'd be happy to see it integrated back into the article, but on the condition, that a reliable, published source can be provided that confirms the information. -- saberwyn 08:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of song's key info 

message: I'm not too sure about the inclusion of Brutal Legend in this article. I will admit firstup that I've not played the game, but the impression I get is that the song is merely part of the soundtrack. This is unlike the other games listed, (in the Guitar Hero and Konami games, the song must be 'played', and in Audiosurf, the song affects how the game is played).
Any thoughts? -- saberwyn 22:40, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brutal Legend inclusion? 

message: Should there be a section on the few (like 3) people who have managed to complete the song with 100% on expert? That's probably the most notable aspect about the song, actually; and the attention the song gained was due to attempts at achieving the perfect score.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Obamamaniac (talk • contribs) 03:53, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Those who aced the song? 

message: Despite my comments above, clearly the majority of the videogame appearances are not individually notable, even where the game is notable.  It seems to me like a better way of presenting this information would be a single paragraph saying, "The song has appeared in the following videogames (list)."  I propose to make this change tomorrow unless anyone has a policy supported objection. - DustFormsWords (talk) 04:03, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Appearance in videogames