Talk:Sinbad the Sailor

message: I have trouble believing that the "Sindbad" spelling is truly more appropriate than the "Sinbad" spelling... Google would seem to agree. Thoughts? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 22:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Google only shows what is more popular, not what is more accurate. Kaijan 09:16, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, would you care to explain why "Sindbad" is more "accurate"? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 00:28, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Leaving aside the issue of "accuracy" (we're talking transliteration anyway), the English-speaking world knows this character as Sinbad, not Sindbad. I'm changing the article. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 22:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Sindbad" with a 'd' is more accurate because that's the way it's spelled in Persian and Arabic - it's spelled that way in Persian script in the article itself :). But I'll stick with Sinbad - ultimately it's a matter of supreme unimportance. PiCo 01:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  to D or not to D? 

message: I deleted this recent addition:
The birth place of Sindbad is considered by many as Sohar in North Batinha region of Sultanate of Oman.
Aktoy's story of the Shipwrecked Sailor is thought to be the inspiration for the classical story of Sinbad the Sailor. His other works includeThe Prophecy of Neferty, the Instruction of Amenemhet, and Sinuhe's tale.''
Reasons are:
First, it sounds pretty odd to ascribe a birthplace to ma fictional character - he wasn't real, how could he have a birthplace? But if you give a reference (where did you find this idea?) it can be considered.
Second, the Aktoy theory seems extremely weak - there's no such thing as "the story of Sinbad the Sailor" - it's a collection of stories, not one. It's not even seven stories, as each 'voyage' contains more than one story. Moreover, the link between a 12th dynasty Egyptian tale (when was that - pre-100BC surely?) and a collection of tales that apparently took their present form only in the last few hundred years, is tenuous to say the least. But if you can give a precis of this Aktoy story, and a reference (i.e., the book where you read this point), it could be made into a useful addition (maybe). 
Don't be disheartened, I'm not trying to prevent you joining the editing effort, just trying to keep it scholarly. PiCo 12:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  actually the Oman thing seems to be well known/popular and could mentioned but properly phrased, i.e. not as historic fact (in the sense as Robin hood could be mention in an article on nottingham)--Kmhkmh (talk) 13:47, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted material about non-fictional Sinbad 

message: Historically, even if Sindbad were a real person, and even if he was born in a part of Iraq at the time part of the Persian Empire - this would NOT make the story necessarily Persian. In fact several of the tales in the cycle (Sindbad is really a cycle of tales in itself) clearly derive from Homer's Odyssey - and others are supposed to be from very ancient Egyptian sources. Actually Sindbad is fictional, and without a nationality or a "birthplace". The setting of the stories are principally imaginary or legendary countries.
The so-called "Arabian Nights" cannot be sheeted home (nautical expression appropriate in context) to any one nationality. In fact the "western" version of the collection has "added" stories (for instance Aladdin), and this seems to have been only the latest in a long line of assorted additions. The whole thing very obviously was not written down all at once, but grew like topsy over several centuries, and apart from the bulk of the tales at least being clearly of middle eastern origin any attempt to chauvinistically claim one or all of the tales for a particular country are very clearly POV OR (and a lot of other things).
I have also excised a fair bit of other rubbish from this article - will give it a proper going over later perhaps.  Soundofmusicals 13:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sinbad was Persian: look here 

message: Material added by user Sina-aria has been removed due to the inclusion of POV comments, grammatical errors, and some comments which, while they may or may not be correct, are besides the point of the article. However, it is my opinion that some of the material may be of use if someone familiar with the topic can extract the good from the less good. Here is the text (highlighted) that he or she has added and re-added. Please have a look. Matt Deres (talk) 14:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "gnomic"? PiCo (talk) 10:11, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: strange or rude edits

message: I disagree that the introduction to the article should have more than a cursory mention of the origin of the character, much less the debate on its origin that it currently contains.  To English speakers - the target audience of English Wikipedia - Sinbad is foremost a fictional character.  He goes sailing and has fantastic adventures.  The way the introduction was prior to my changing it gave the impression that Sinbad is of primary interest as a scholar's exercise in tracing the history of various transliteration techniques or finding the real-life bases inspiring this fantasy writing.  Sinbad is first a fictional character in stories; whatever else is said comes second. Bluerasberry (talk) 17:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the academic (and rather speculative) matter you removed from the introduction does tend to disrupt the flow a little - but then this is an encyclopedia article, not just a retelling of the tales for the kiddies. How abut this for a compromise? Moving it out of the introduction, but putting it near the top rather than losing it down in the trivia? Not all "English speaking people" are American High School students - Wiki is a GENERAL encyclopedia, and all kinds of people consult it. Their interests in any given subject vary tremendously - and we need to have a fairly full and balanced account, especially of literary subjects.--Soundofmusicals (talk) 22:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you that origins should be at the top of the article before restating of the plot.  I have another problem, though, and it cannot be solved by mere shuffling of content already available.  In looking at this article and the article for Arabian Nights, I get the impression that the Sinbad stories available to Western readers are from Burton's collection of the Arabian Nights, but that there are other collections of the Arabian nights that do not include Sinbad stories, and furthermore, there is talk on this discussion board that Sinbad stories have their origins in folk tales of various regions.  I wonder what the oldest extant written source for these stories is, like for example, what were Burton's source materials for translating the stories, and how far back have the sources for his sources been traced?  To what extent were the Sinbad stories compiled by Burton actually created for the first time in writing by Burton?  As the article stands right now, it is not clear whether Sinbad stories ever existed in print before 1885.  Does anyone have insight?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluerasberry (talk • contribs) 18:03, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I googled (google books)/researched that a while ago, though i don't have the actual link at hand anymore. The bottom line was that older (original) arabic/persian versions arabian knight do not include the sinbad stories. The cuplprit might have been indeed burton who incoporated additional regional folk tales into his edition of arabian nights. Hence the sinbad story is mideast folk tale that existed independent of the arabian stories, and it can be traced to the late medieval ages (14th century).--Kmhkmh (talk) 13:55, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Academia? 

message: Is Sinbad from Basra or Basrah? —Akrabbimtalk 13:14, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Historically no (or rather nobody knows), but he fictional character however starts his fist voyage from the city of basrah (at least in various english/western versions - see the link in the at the end of the article)--Kmhkmh (talk) 14:02, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sinbad was from Bagdad which is mentioned or somehow becomes evident several times throughout the tales. But because Bagdad is not a seaport, he (must have) started all of his (ship) journeys from Basrah and also had to go through there before returning to Bagdad every time.--80.141.195.41 (talk) 21:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Basrah]] 

message: Sindbad and 1001 night stories have Indo-Iranian origin  ,after Islamic conquest , all these Iranic and Pakistani folklore were translated into arabic. even the name of the " Basrah" has persian origin like " Baghdad" and "Anbar".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.166.197.66 (talk) 20:48, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sind+bad / Bas+rah  

message: This section has been pulled back into a rational arrangement - basically:
Para 1. Case for Persian origin.
Para 2. Case for Arab(ic) origin.
Para 3. Description of sources etc. that are both/neither!
in total - this section is an attempt to present something fairly controversial in a nice, balanced, NPOV way. any rearrangement needs to bear this in mind. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 21:26, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Recent edits to this section by anonymous user are suspect due to "references" which seem to have no bearing on the case and other reasons. Rearrangement of other matter rendered changed version less coherent. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 23:38, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins and sources  

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Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
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message: I have deleted, for now, the apparently good faith and possibly very interesting edit:
"The tale of Sindbad can be traced to the Brihatkathalokasamgraha by Budhasvamin, to the tale of the voyages of Sanudasa the merchant." 
We need, not only a source, but a few more details about the (possible?) link between Sanudasa and Sindbad before this can be settled into the article. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 02:37, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible link to Sanskrit source? 

message: Guesses about derivation of the word need to be stated with due reserve - if only because of nationalist conclusions that have been drawn from one or the other... --Soundofmusicals (talk) 11:12, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology. 

message: I removed a link to List of literary cycles appearing to be a link to story-cycle, as it serves no purpose at that specific place, for it does not provide any information on what is a story-cycle as a reader accustomed to the links system would expect. It would be fine if the phrasing was something like large collection of story-cycles or one of the best-known story-cycles, etc.. Then the reader would know to expect some form of compendium/ collection/ list/ etc. I have moved it to the See also section. Rui Gabriel Correia (talk) 09:06, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: "Appropriate links provide instant pathways to locations within and outside the project that are likely to increase readers' understanding of the topic at hand. Whenever writing or editing an article, it is important to consider not only what to put in the article, but what links to include to help the reader find related information", Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking. Rui Gabriel Correia (talk) 09:18, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Resolved. Rui Gabriel Correia (talk) 09:46, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of literary cycles|story-cycle]] 

message: Dear Colleagues. The section above refers. Editor Soundofmusicals insists on linking a refereence to story cycle to a page listing examples of story cycles, rather then linking it to a page about story cycles. It is simply absurd to link a term to a list when an article about that term already exists. I have a left note on his talkpage, please weigh in if you feel inclined, otherwise, please leave your views here. Regards, Rui Gabriel Correia (talk) 09:52, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Helping to defend a much vandalised article for years and "ownership" (in a derogatory sense) are, with the greatest possible respect, completely different things. I think (hope) Rui and I have sorted this one on my talk page - but I would hope that the original link is restored, at least as soon as the "article linked to" is improved, and provides the useful additional information one has a right to expect from its title. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 11:03, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The latest round of "nationality" claims for this totally fictitious personage that has been refuted so many times is reemerging. If I am not to preserve this on the grounds that I do not "own" the article then will someone else please take it over? Seems it needs someone to "own" it for it to retain any encyclopedic validity at all. -Soundofmusicals (talk) 23:58, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ownership issues 

message: The article on the Talmudic Rabbi  Rabbah bar bar Hana mentions his Aggada as a possible source of the First Voyage of Sindbad. Shouldn't that be mentioned here, too? ShemtovKML (talk) 01:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rabbah bar bar Hanah 

message: I wondered if there could be any basis for this story in the voyages of Zheng He. Mainly because he also made 7 voyages in the Indian Ocean, just before the "Sinbad" story seems to have arisen. Location he sailed from is different of course, but perhaps Zheng He's voyages were widely known at the time and inspired the story?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.171.184.241 (talk) 05:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: As the only similarity between the two are seven sea voyages, this is unlikely - though not impossible. If you find a reference for that assumption, you can add it to the article, however.ASchudak (talk) 07:11, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Zheng He

message: In the Adaptations/Theatrical films section of this article, why is there no mention of the 1919 "Sinbad the Sailor" silent film short?  Isn't it significant when it is the very first depiction of the Sinbad tales in film? Linus Blankette (talk) 00:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  1919 silent film version 

message: Alexa 2405:205:1588:E4F8:7BD2:CB0F:EFC8:6401 (talk) 16:31, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sinbad the Sailor 

message: I
 Was here teacher alfred 197.232.117.43 (talk) 07:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Andrea from his was here 

message: The article says in the first sentence that Sinbad is a "fictional mariner" implying that he's not a real person and that these stories are fiction.  I'm just wondering whether this is definitive, or is there any possibility that this might be legend or folklore rather than fiction?  I have never read the stories myself, but the impression I get is that they are comparable to the Odyssey which is not considered fiction. 2601:49:8400:26B:E8B3:4692:15C0:33CC (talk) 18:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiction?