Talk:Michigan State University/Archive 1

message: For people in the State of Michigan it is all about the MSU vs UM rivalry.  This is the biggest rivalry in the State.  Nationally, I agree that OSU and UM is a bigger story.  The MSU and Notre Dame football rivalry is a close second with the UM-MSU game.  It has been pretty lopsided in recent years with MSU winning 6 in a row.  On the basketball front, the MSU/UM game is similar to MSU/Eastern Michigan - just not a lot of  competition for the Spartans.  Not since the well-funded Fab Five has there been a strong UM team.  The prime rivals these days are Illinois and Wisconsin. 12/18/05 NM
Sorry, but that rework gets the POV and the facts just as wrong. UM-Ohio state was voted in ESPN's year 2000 fan poll to be the greatest rivalry in sports. National poll mind you. That automatically means few, if any UM fans consider MSU to be their biggest rival (if there are any, they certainly weren't students). As further support of that look at the google search for michigan greatest rivalry. Those search terms would include both UM and MSU. Only a couple links in the entire list aren't about UM-Ohio State. The only reason MSU fans think the state is divided in two for that game is they don't come watch the UM-Ohio state game. So the overall bit has got to say one-sided if it is going to state the facts, but the hockey bit can stay since that is a more common phrase I think, though for a demonstrably less popular sport. I don't want to sound like a POV pusher, but from the outside view, with the facts, the rivalry is one sided. I left the partly in there just as an effort to tone any POV down. - Taxman 03:53, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
:A couple observations. I grew up in Ohio, not exactly a Buckeyes fan, but I followed them with casual interest and the UM-OSU game was always a big game. I've also lived in Michigan for almost two years now, and my perception is that while the UM-OSU game is still the biggest rivalry and gets a national spotlight, it is also very true that the MSU-MU game does indeed divide the state and draws considerable local media attention. However, the MU-Notre Dame game also seems to be on par with the MSU-MU game as far as intensity of the rivalry. older≠wiser 14:30, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
I agree that there's little in the way of a MSU-UM football rivalry, these days, since MSU's been so sorry.  OSU's UM's main football rivalry; always has been.  I think the basketball rivalries are new and mainly stem from Coach Izzo, himself.  For example, it's pretty common knowledge there's no personal love lost btw Izzo and Wiscy's Bo Ryan.  btw, the MSU vs. Penn State football so-called "rivalry" is totally contrived.  We share a common land grant heritage and that's about it.  Pulley12 07:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rivalry

message: We always discussed the geography according to the four main groups of residence halls,  I lived in Brody. There were also the Hubbard-area (East) campus, South (Case, Holden, etc..) and North (Gilchirist). 12/18/05 NM
The way the article looks currently is that those are offical designations or very common ones, which isn't good if they aren't. I have never heard those terms nor seen them on a map. If they're not official and common its probably better to not have section headings by those names, but instead just start the paragraph out by saying something like "on the northern part of campus...". Just wondering. - Taxman Talk 23:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: They are official at least in terms of parking policy - fac/staff parking permits will allow you to park in North Campus, GA permits only let you park in South Campus (at least it was so until 2001).  Guettarda 23:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  North/South campuses 

message: The history section is growing so long that it's becoming unwieldy. While this is a happy problem (a lot of people have added useful contributions), it is making the page too long to be a Featured Article. (It's up to 40k as of December 17, 2005.) Therefore, I have copied the whole section to a new article on the History of Michigan State University. I am now paring down the History section. Lovelac7 00:38, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: This article is coming along very nicely and the research and writing is very good. The problem is it now only includes positive facts. All the facts are selectively chosen to emphasize the best features of the University. It's unfortunate because it's built into the whole article, from the sports section to the academics to the lead. Selective presentation of facts is just as POV as unsourced biased statements. If MSU was ranked as the 74th best university in the country, state that instead of saying World renowned, which sounds POV. And maybe another ranking finds it much lower and there may be features of the University that are not considered good. Also certainly the riots were one facet that made national news about the University (even if many/most? involved were not students). That probably had equivalent or unfortunately greater national coverage than the sports wins. And yes, other articles, including UM's suffer a bit from this, but not nearly as much as this one. In other words, I know great work is going into the article so I wanted to point this out as soon as I noticed to save work if possible. - Taxman Talk 15:50, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV