Talk:Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League

message: Please the statement above is incorrect, The website cover statement http://users.panola.com/vietnam/  is not verbatim and I did not copy it from there.
please see what I wrote and it was just stating the beliefs on this organization:
The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League is a U.S.-based organization dedicated to promoting the replacement of the current communist government of Vietnam with a constitutional monarchy led by the Nguyen Dynasty. The League's position is that Bao Dai was the last legitimate ruler of Vietnam.
The organization was founded in 1994 by its President Prince Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh, who was exiled from Vietnam after 1975. Members of the League consist of former officials of the South Vietnamese government, Religious, and Vietnamese Exiles from the United States, Canada, Australia and Europe.
The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League seeks to work with all other groups with the basic goal of seeing democracy and personal freedom returned to the people of Vietnam. They also work with other nations who are also suffering under communist tyranny in such as the Southeast Asia. The League is in full partnership with the Southeast Asia Imperial & Royal League and The British Committee For Free Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia & Burma. Their is to work with the traditions of Vietnamese culture to achieve a democratic, tolerant and free government in true representation for the people of Vietnam and to support such efforts in other countries across Southeast Asia.
The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League believes it is a simple fact that the people of Vietnam have never been given the choice of how they are to be governed. Ho Chi Minh took power by military force in 1945 and the people of the north were indoctrinated to believe that Communism was the only solution to the problems Vietnam faced. The south of the country never accepted Ho Chi Minh, nor did they accept the loss of the monarchy. Ho Chi Minh first abolished the monarchy in 1945 without giving the nation an opportunity to vote on the issue. Emperor Bao Dai was brought out of exile as the last legitimate ruler of Vietnam (since Ho took power by force) and Vietnam was supposed to choose in nation-wide elections how their country was to be administered. This never happened. Ngo Dinh Diem held a referendum which was openly rigged in his favor to abolish the monarchy and neither Ngo Dinh Diem or Ho Chi Minh were willing to trust the will of the people throughout all of Vietnam to choose the government best for them.
The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League believes there was also certainly no consideration given to popular opinion when the Communist forces invaded and conquered the Republic of Vietnam after the evacuation of all U.S. armed forces. The Republic of Vietnam itself existed only because the United States wanted the "new" Vietnam to be built in their image rather than traditional Vietnam, which had always been a monarchy. The north was likewise built on foreign models, becoming more like Soviet Russia or Red China than ancient Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh was known to idolize the Russian communist leader Vladimir Lenin. In Communist government offices pictures of Vladimir Lenin and Karl Marx decorate the walls rather than traditional Vietnamese heroes such as Le Loi, Gia Long or Minh Mang.
The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League believes that if the Vietnamese people are given the choice they would rather have a government built on the preservation of Vietnamese culture and traditions, that can truly reflect their national identity.
The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League agenda is to work as hard as it can to unite those who wish to restore the nation to freedom and give the people the choice of deciding how they are to be governed, confident that those who have done the most to help them and fight for what Vietnam truly stands for will not be forgotten in the end.
The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League states that their country of Vietnam has learned anything from the years of conflict it is that the words of His Majesty the Emperor Bao Dai hold true, unity means life and division means death.
In Conclusion the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League wants to see a government in Vietnam that represents all groups who favor freedom and democracy must join together, putting aside differences, and work for the common good of the people and nation of Vietnam. It is to this end, as well as the restoration of cultural pride and the dignity of the Nguyen Dynasty that the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League is dedicated.
In 2004, The Nguyen Dynasty Overseas Council assigned Prince Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh Regent of The Imperial Nguyen Dynasty of Vietnam.
I  wrote me statement and corrected it as you can see there is not the copied as stated by other member http://users.panola.com/vietnam/   Tran Van Ba
:It makes no sense to say "the above statement [that the text was a verbatim copy] is incorrect". It obviously is a verbatim copy. It was not taken from the website's cover page, but I never said it was. It was taken from the mission statement page (http://users.panola.com/vietnam/14.html), as I am sure you are well aware.
: Now, your most recent edits (after I made my comments) have modified the text slightly to add "The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League believes" before each paragraph, which is a slight improvement. But the article still devotes so much space to repeating all the claims of the VCML, while adding almost no specific relevant facts beyond what is already in the introductory paragraph, that you cannot call it a neutral point of view. The purpose of the article should be to explain what the VCML is, not to repeat all of its opinions. Here are examples of highly non-neutral phrases:
:#"other nations who are also suffering under communist tyranny" ("tyranny" is a non-neutral, pejorative term)
:#"the people of the north were indoctrinated to believe that Communism was the only solution to the problems Vietnam face" (what is your evidence that they were "indoctrinated"?)
:#"In Communist government offices pictures of Vladimir Lenin and Karl Marx decorate the walls rather than traditional Vietnamese heroes such as Le Loi, Gia Long or Minh Mang" (why is this relevant to the article?)
:#"The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League agenda is to work as hard as it can to unite those who wish to restore the nation to freedom" (since this provides no details on how the League intends to do these things, it is nothing more than a vague propaganda statement)
:Have you actually read the guidelines in Wikipedia:Neutral point of view? ←Hob 04:01, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)
===just let me know I will fix it===
Hob, ok I will fix those words of neutral "tryanny" or any other non-neutral words.
Also I will will condense the paragraph so not to be repetative in the mission of what this organization goals are. If you see something just assist me, so that other people will know about Asian issues. thank you Tran Van Ba
:Feel free to try to improve the article, but you have to understand that other people can also edit it; it's not "your" article. Other editors may choose to make drastic changes, for neutrality or other reasons. You should not just continue putting in the same text and removing other points of view without discussion, as you have done in the past. It really shouldn't have required a complaint page against you to get your attention. And as you know, the non-neutral text is not the only complaint against you at this point. ←Hob 18:09, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)
This group is a total farce, the leader claims to be a "prince" though this was a title only the Vietnamese emperor could give and he would have been only 13 when the monarchy was abolished (I doubt the Emperor would have given a 13-year-old a princely title when his own prime minister was almost 50 before being so honored). Apparently, after having lunch with the former Emperor in Paris, taking a few pictures and showing them around to various politicians he decided to name himself "boss" of the Nguyen Dynasty. The actual head of the family is the Emperor's eldest son, Crown Prince Bao Long, who has disavowed any connection to this group and firmly refused to deal with them at all.
Most of their material is stolen from other websites, their various arms, flags & symbols are all computer generated copies of various older insignia and the membership of the group seems to consist of only about 200 people world-wide, most simply out to play "let's pretend I'm royalty" and exchange grand sounding titles. They have also carpet-bombed every forum or message board relating to Vietnam or the Vietnamese community with advertisements for their group and used their own website to slander a number of scholars who questioned them as to the validity of their claims.
Obviously, their posting here is simply the lastest childish effort by these pretenders to try and gain some legitimacy for their organization which the actual Vietnamese Imperial Family has dismissed as absurd.
-Nguyen Van Tuan
:Nguyen Van Tuan, these factual disputes and other matters are currently under review at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jimmyvanthach. If you have evidence to contribute to that discussion (with links, or references to printed material, to back it up), please do so at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jimmyvanthach/Evidence. Also, it would be very helpful if you would register a Wikipedia login and password, so that your edits and comments will be seen to come from a single individual - this will also give you a user talk page (like mine), so other users can talk to you without going to a lot of different article talk pages like this one. ←Hob 22:03, 2004 Oct 1 (UTC)
"This group is a total farce[...]  he would have been only 13 when the monarchy was abolished (I doubt the Emperor would have given a 13-year-old a princely title when his own prime minister was almost 50 before being so honored)."
Age doesn't matter for monarchy, an attack on the age of a monarch makes me laugh... Consider Isabella II of Spain[1], she acquired the title of queen when she was 3 years old and assumed power when she was 13 years old (born in 1830 assumed power in 1843 after the military reinstalled her).
[1]http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blbio_isabella_ii.htm
2112Z 2004 Dec 14
Age does matter in this case, if you knew Asian monarchies are not the same as Europe. Buu Chanh is not a prince -he was not born a prince, if he was age would not matter, but he was not, but claims to be now, so it does. For him to be a prince the Emperor would have had to make him one and considering that he did not even make Prince Buu Hoi a prince until he became Prime Minister, do you really think he would have made some child who had accomplished nothing yet in life a prince before his own prime minister? NguyenHue 21:27, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference more non-NPOV edits 

message: Hob, ok I will fix those words of neutral "tryanny" or any other non-neutral words.
Also I will will condense the paragraph so not to be repetative in the mission of what this organization goals are. If you see something just assist me, so that other people will know about Asian issues. thank you Tran Van Ba
:Feel free to try to improve the article, but you have to understand that other people can also edit it; it's not "your" article. Other editors may choose to make drastic changes, for neutrality or other reasons. You should not just continue putting in the same text and removing other points of view without discussion, as you have done in the past. It really shouldn't have required a complaint page against you to get your attention. And as you know, the non-neutral text is not the only complaint against you at this point. ←Hob 18:09, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)
This group is a total farce, the leader claims to be a "prince" though this was a title only the Vietnamese emperor could give and he would have been only 13 when the monarchy was abolished (I doubt the Emperor would have given a 13-year-old a princely title when his own prime minister was almost 50 before being so honored). Apparently, after having lunch with the former Emperor in Paris, taking a few pictures and showing them around to various politicians he decided to name himself "boss" of the Nguyen Dynasty. The actual head of the family is the Emperor's eldest son, Crown Prince Bao Long, who has disavowed any connection to this group and firmly refused to deal with them at all.
Most of their material is stolen from other websites, their various arms, flags & symbols are all computer generated copies of various older insignia and the membership of the group seems to consist of only about 200 people world-wide, most simply out to play "let's pretend I'm royalty" and exchange grand sounding titles. They have also carpet-bombed every forum or message board relating to Vietnam or the Vietnamese community with advertisements for their group and used their own website to slander a number of scholars who questioned them as to the validity of their claims.
Obviously, their posting here is simply the lastest childish effort by these pretenders to try and gain some legitimacy for their organization which the actual Vietnamese Imperial Family has dismissed as absurd.
-Nguyen Van Tuan
:Nguyen Van Tuan, these factual disputes and other matters are currently under review at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jimmyvanthach. If you have evidence to contribute to that discussion (with links, or references to printed material, to back it up), please do so at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jimmyvanthach/Evidence. Also, it would be very helpful if you would register a Wikipedia login and password, so that your edits and comments will be seen to come from a single individual - this will also give you a user talk page (like mine), so other users can talk to you without going to a lot of different article talk pages like this one. ←Hob 22:03, 2004 Oct 1 (UTC)
"This group is a total farce[...]  he would have been only 13 when the monarchy was abolished (I doubt the Emperor would have given a 13-year-old a princely title when his own prime minister was almost 50 before being so honored)."
Age doesn't matter for monarchy, an attack on the age of a monarch makes me laugh... Consider Isabella II of Spain[1], she acquired the title of queen when she was 3 years old and assumed power when she was 13 years old (born in 1830 assumed power in 1843 after the military reinstalled her).
[1]http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blbio_isabella_ii.htm
2112Z 2004 Dec 14
Age does matter in this case, if you knew Asian monarchies are not the same as Europe. Buu Chanh is not a prince -he was not born a prince, if he was age would not matter, but he was not, but claims to be now, so it does. For him to be a prince the Emperor would have had to make him one and considering that he did not even make Prince Buu Hoi a prince until he became Prime Minister, do you really think he would have made some child who had accomplished nothing yet in life a prince before his own prime minister? NguyenHue 21:27, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: just let me know I will fix it

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is this group still active? Googling their name doesn't come up with a whole lot, and clicking some of the "External Links" on this article are redirecting me to some site about building websites. I just thought if this group is dissolved/inactive it should be mentioned in the article, or if they're still active we should fix the links to go to their proper website. Komihama (talk) 11:14, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still Active? 

message: VCML members consist of former officials of the South Vietnamese government, religious figures, Vietnamese exiles, and sympathizers from the United States, Canada, Australia and Europe. The VCML has contacts with royal family members in Vietnam, that have been organizing grassroot efforts for years to spread and unify supporters in Vietnam to politically pressure the government of Vietnam for a multi-party system that would guarantee equal treatment for all citizens regardless of political party, religion or ethnicity. The VCML believes in politically pressuring the Communist government of Vietnam to reach its goals so the Vietnamese people would have the opportunity to choose a Constitutional Monarchy government in an election, which does not violate the U.S. Neutrality Act.
The VCML has a budget consisting of donations from  Vietnamese exiles living in the United States, Canada, Australia and Europe.
FuzzyCatPotato (talk) 20:14, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed uncited content 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion