Talk:Trundholm sun chariot

message: drawing (PD or fairuse?) dab (ᛏ) 09:24, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Drawing

message: how is the dating justified? It went down from 1400 to the 1200s? While I find a spoke-wheeled chariot in 1400 BC Scandinavia most amazing, I suppose there is nothing too surprising about 1000 BC sopoked wheels. So my surprise really rather hinges of the dating of this thing. dab (ᛏ) 11:48, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sacrificial find from the elder Bronze Age consisting of a 57 cm long model of a wagon harnessed with a horse, discovered  in 1902 in the bog of Trundholm on NW Zealand, now in the National Museum in Copenhagen. T, which has been dated to 1300-1500 BC is made of cast bronze and consists of a circular disc measuring 25 cm across, on which parts of the original golden layer are preserved. The disc is mounted on a wagon harnessed with a horse, having six wheels, one of the oldest plastic representations from the Danish bronze age. It is believed that there was a wagon in natural size as well, which was used in solar worship.
I guess the dating is based on C12 dating, since it so vague.--Wiglaf 12:03, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Oops, yes C14. I assumed the wheels were made of wood. Concerning Alsvid and Arvak, the number of horses may have changed during the 2500 years that passed between the Trundholm wagon and the Edda. The relationship between the imagery of the Nordic Bronze Age and the Edda is a never-ending discussion in Scandinavia.--Wiglaf 12:28, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: of course, there are 2500 years between the Trundholm chariot and the Edda, after all. I was just speculating about when they went from one to two horses. Since the "King's Grave" already shows a team of two, you could imagine that this happened rather early. In any case, as long as there are no remains of any actual chariots, this is pure speculation. dab (ᛏ) 08:27, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I wish we had more info. I also wish we had one of those petroglyph experts here. User:OlofE should have a lot to add. I'll e-mail him and see if he's interested.--Wiglaf 08:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I also strongly wish we had some more recent data on the subject. About dating. Is it not possible to do some chemical analysis on bronze itself or smth? Or is it done, then it would be nice to have data about publication of such. To put it brutally: is there any strong evidence that this horse was not manufactured in early 20th c and then buried there, as hoax? I'm interested bcs I work in little bronze age museum in Estonia and we have pic of this chariot here and some people ask about it. (Also we have copy of Egtved girl.) If you think it is not interesting for general public, I at least am very interested in more exact description of circumstances finding this thing. Chariot. BirgittaMTh (talk) 13:37, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Dating

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message: Hello! This is to let editors know that :File:Solvognen-00100.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for September 5, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-09-05. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page.  If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 11:52, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured picture scheduled for POTD 

message: Randsborg's research (https://www.rockartscandinavia.com/images/articles/randsborga9.pdf), which was the unreferenced source of the calendar claims I've removed, makes wild leaps of numerical imagination to match some created numbers from these types of objects to some other number related to astronomy. For example, for another similar object:
"Still, a numerical pattern does not seem to emerge. However, if one - in a lucky strike of imagination! - multiplies by the number of the factor of the zones, the sum of the spirals turns out to be 15x1+22x2+26x3+32x4 = 265, or exactly the number of days in 9 months of the Moon-year (265½), or,  incidentally, also the length of the average human period of pregnancy."
For this object, he creates a framework where any number can be multiplied by any other number:
"Looking next at the numbers, contours of a mathematical system appears, including multiplication and likely division as well: 1 = 1x1, 8 = 2x2x2, 16 = 2x2x2x2; 27 = 3x3x3; 16 = 4x4; 25 = 5x5. Or, in other words, a system building on multiplication of the same number, 1x1, 1x1x1, 1x1x1x1, etc.; 2x2, 2x2x2, 2x2x2, etc.; 3x3, 3x3x3, etc.; 4x4, etc.; 5x5, etc.; and so on. One also notes multiplications of different numbers: 2x4, 5x4, and 3x9."
There are plenty of numbers in astronomy to pick from (even more if you start including mammalian gestation periods), and there are many ways of making numbers from depictions in objects. Once these are 'matched' they seem to have some significance in retrospect. But this is throwing a handful of darts at a dart board, them claiming the one near the bullseye was intentional. Even worse, it's claiming significance of a dart that didn't even hit a bullseye, but instead saying the double-7 it did hit is actually very significant because a dart hit it, therefore it must have been intentional, in an example of circular logic. Pygathrix nigripes (talk) 10:42, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  As a calendar 

message: I admit I'm not familiar with horses, but It doesn't look much like a horse to me. The body is hardly thicker than the neck, and the body and neck together have an almost snake-like appearance. The head is a little long and has a curious droop. Is it just highly stylized? Or is there a breed of horses that look like this? Or is there some other animal that he could have had in mind? UBJ 43X (talk) 00:36, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is that really a horse?