Talk:Cyprus problem/Archive 2

message: Your continued reversions of this page to a pro-Turkish biased account which is neither neutral not accurate and your removal of all of my contributions which are historical and legal facts and figures so can in no way be biased is considered to be Vandalism. It is clear from what you have written that you are favouring Turkey and are trying to promote the views of the illegal occupation regime in occupied Cyprus which the UN has declared "legally invalid" and called upon all members not to facilitate in any way in Security Council Resolutions 541(1983) and 550(1984).
Snchduer your attempt to equate the Turkish massacre of 5,000 Greek Cypriot civilians with the death of 200 Turkish Cypriots, by replacing the facts and figures I gave with "Thousands of Greek and Turkish Cypriots had been killed and wounded and many more were missing" is truly repugnant. 
Since your contributions amount to Vandalism I am entitled to revert to the version before the sabotage occurred without incurring any penalties. Either start from the point before the sabotage occurred or don't edit at all if you cant present a neutral point of view.
::Discuss what you want to add here first, dont you have anything constructive to add to Wikipedia other than political tripe about Greek suffering? You seem to blame Turks for everything that has happened to Greek people. You should blame Greece's failed dictators and terrorists like Sampson and Grivas for putting Cyprus in this situation. --E.A 20:22, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism by Snchduer and EA. 

message: Dear everybody, especially dear Argyrosargyrou!
We have a nice, albeit too neutral (in my opinion) version of the page now, mostly contributed by JL (articles should be balanced, not necessarily neutral). Please, make smaller edits, do not try to transform the page into a completely different one, without a consensus reached on this beforehand on this very same Talk page. If you want to make major or important changes (incl. changing the summary), start a discussion about this beforehand. In this way, I hope we can improve this page slowly. Also, refrain from personal attacks here.
Oh, and dear people, do sign your contributions to this talk page! - Snchduer 12:50, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to edit 

message: First of all, a little excuse from myself for converting it to neutral-speak a bit and killing off the percentages (40% and 100%), which are in my opinion only confusing. I would actually even propose to erase the second table totally, and to include instead a third row to the first one with the total percentages, and a note about the fact that 60% of the voters in the north are considered Turkish settlers and thus without the right to vote by the RoC government. - Snchduer 23:42, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Table of the Annan Plan 

message: The text under the Annan Plan is repeatedly correct to show that the GCs are 90% of the population and that the TCs are only 10%. I have never seen this written in any credible publication. The standard position that is accepted by the international community is that the GCs are 80% and the TCs are 20%. However, in the spirit of compromose, I propose to include a clause referrign to the fact that there are no current figures, but that at the time of independence it was 80:20. It may have changhed. We just don't know. We certainly cannot say it is now 90:10 and withotu knowing it would be dishonest to present it as a fact. Can we therefore note that it is contested and put the 1960 figures down? Yes or No?
:The population statistics given by the Republic of Cyprus state that 90% of the legal population are Greek Cypriots and 10% are Turkish Cypriots. The illegal Turkish colonists are not Turkish Cypriots nor are they considerd as Cyprus citizens.
"Population: 802,500 (2002) 
80.1% Greek Cypriots (642,600), 10.9% Turkish Cypriots (87,400), 9.0% foreign residents and workers (72,500)"
http://www.moi.gov.cy/moi/pio/pio.nsf/All/AB56397DF1BA68F4C2256DCE00423A6B?OpenDocument
::CIA factbook places population from 2001 as 77% GC, 18%TC 5%Other https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cy.html --E.A 13:35, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population sizes 

message: Your way of leading a discussion - and i hope i speak for many here - seriously goes against anything i know of leading a pragmatic, result-oriented discussion. You think your view of the history is the only acceptable one, while everyone else here (or, at least, most people) tries to reach a consensus. 
:LOL.. Neither Expatkiwi, Snchduer, and RickK are contributing from a neutral standpoint. Snchduer, and RickK have all shown from their contributions here and elsewhere that they are behaving like apologists, with RickK going so far as to demand that the page on the Hellenic Genocide be deleted. EA. is a Turkish Cypriot nationalist and like RickK wants the history of the Hellenic Genocide suppressed so its no wonder he is doing the same on the history of Cyprus. And you accuse me of saying my view of history is the only acceptable one. I am saying that Expatkiwi, Snchduer, RickK and EA. are all on the side of Turkey and that balance is needed which none of them have provided. Snchduer has deleted all the historical facts and figures I added so as to equate legality with illegality and EA continues to reputedly sabotage the page by reverting to earlier pro-Turkish edits. --Argyrosargyrou 17:19, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: So basically you are saying that we all are wrong and you are the only one who has the truth on his side? I have deleted your figures because you refuse to contribute in a healthy and cooperative way; you are simply reinstating your version over and over again, which is anything else but balanced. - Snchduer 17:58, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am saying that you are taking sides with Turkey. My figures are all neutral and so are my historical contributions which have all been on the basis of legality. You have repeatedly tired to equate legality with illegality. You have systematically removed all the historical facts and figures in order to portray this as a dispute between Greek and Turkish Cypriots as if Turkey invasion of Cyprus and its violation of the UN resolutions and the human rights of the Greek Cypriots did not happen and as if its occupation of 40% of Cyprus territory has to be condoned in order to be fair on the Turkish Cypriots. That's why you don't want it known that 90% of the property in the north is owned by Greek Cypriot's who made up 90% of the legal population and are being prevented from returning, and thats why you don't wont that contrasted with the fact that all the Turkish Cypriots are free to return to the south at any time the like. It's also why you have tried to sanitized the Annan plan into something the Greek Cypriots should have accepted even though it violated every human rights norm in existence and that's why you removed all of my references to those. You who editorial bias has been from the point of view of Turkey and the US and the UK all of which have perpetrated crimes against Cyprus and thats why Ank99's contributions as well.--Argyrosargyrou 18:14, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you read the balanced article version (not yours) properly, you will find it mentions a lot of the things you want to express already (also the human rights violations by the Turkish army). I do not know why you would call your figures neutral - I figure many of them can be found on the RoC's homepage, which - as well as the TRNC's homepage, btw - I consider heavily biased. We do not want to edit out historical facts, but we do want to present them in a balanced way, which you seem to want to avoid. - Snchduer 20:24, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

text: EOKA did not deliberately target Turkish Cypriots in its campaign against the British. The first intercommunal killing were carried out by the TMT in 1957 after Turkish government instigated provocations that were based on the Pogroms in Constantinople of 1955. --Argyrosargyrou 17:19, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I beg to differ. When the GCs pulled out of the security forces for fear of being persecuted by EOKA, the British started employing more and more TCs, who of course became a favored target of the EOKA campaign against the British. - Snchduer 17:58, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dear Argyrosargyrou,