Talk:1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners

message: The title and tone of this article may possibly be POV and unbalanced. Khodavand 02:26, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How?  Please elaborate.   What specifically is false.--Patchouli 12:24, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: First, only the MKO (Peoples Mujahideen) are called "Monafegheen" by the regime. That label is only for them. Second, it seems to be only about their executions of MKO members, and not people from other groups. Also, the "massacre" in the article title is possibly POV as I already said. Is there a source for the title? Khodavand 23:24, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

text: A search engine will yield over 260,000 results.  It won't hurt to use it.--Patchouli 01:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with user Khodavand. For example, the article defines the so called 1988 massacre of Iranian prisoners as a "systematic slaughter of thousands of political prisoners across Iran by the Islamic Republic of Iran". Why is the word slaughter used instead of executed? The people that were executed were prisoner. Although their executions may not have been justified, it is for the reader to decide. Furthermore, I would take search engine results with a grain of salt (I can elaborate if necessary). I will change slaughter to execution if there are no objection. Agha Nader 03:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Execution is WP:NPOV. I will change it as per discussions here.--Gerash77 22:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Title

message: How many people were executed during this time? GutterMonkey 07:46, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bodycount 

message: If you can confirm the authenticity of the video it is an acceptable source.  Otherwise, not reliable.  Perhaps you can just find an official BBC link, or at least a transcript?  The Behnam 05:33, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youtube video 

message: * Abrahamian Ervand. Tortured Confessions. Berkeley, Cal.: University of California Press, 1999.  978-0-520-21866-6
* Afshari Reza. Human Rights in Iran. The Abuse of Cultural Relativism. 2001.  
* Final Report on the situation of human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran by the Special Representative of the Commission on Human Rights, Mr. Reynaldo Galindo Pohl, pursuant to Commission resolution 1992/67 of 4 March 1992. Document number E/CN.4/1993/41  http://www.unhchr.ch/huridocda/huridoca.nsf/Documents?OpenFrameset
* Cooper Roger. Death Plus Ten Years (Paperback). Harpercollins; New Ed edition (May 1995) 
* Rejali Darius. Torture and Modernity: Self, society and state in modern Iran. Westview Press1994.
This is from the Massacre of Iranian political prisoners which is getting deleted. It may be of interest for future contributions to this article. --Rayis 21:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll add it, thanks.  The Behnam 21:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

text: It appears that it was there already.  The Behnam 21:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lol who knows, I may have added it myself.. --Rayis 21:45, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further reading 

message: For some reason I'm having trouble finding the AI report on the matter.  Perhaps I need to eat.  Anyway, it should be included in the response section, along with other significant groups.  If anyone can find it, it would be an excellent addition.  Thanks.  The Behnam 21:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm yeah. I don't know if we can find the original report from that year on their site, it depends on their archives I guess --Rayis 22:10, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I contacted Amnesty, and apparently it is available in a published title "IRAN violations of Human Rights 1987 - 1990 >>MDE 13/21/90 ISBN: 0 86210 188 3." --Rayis 11:04, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

text:  In fact, it looks like I may be able to get them soon in email.. --Rayis 11:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great.  I'm going to look to see if HRW said anything about the incidents.  The Behnam 19:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: HRW response added.  The Behnam 21:23, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Excellent. I haven't heard from the Amnesty organiser who was gonna scan it yet although apparently it may be available in university libraries (I have seen the Amnesty year books so maybe next to them). Also I think lots of groups were included in the executions, especially the guerrilla type ones like Iranian People's Fedai Guerrillas   --Rayis 21:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, this unreliable source mentions an AI day in the first paragraph that may help us in our search .  The Behnam 21:37, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I found another item .  While it is possible to just use it as a ref, it may also be better to ref directly to the articles mentioned within.  The Behnam 21:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

text:  I recieved the AI report in email, it is very comprehensive and very detailed. Sadly the collection of AI reports here does not have these. But interesting this report suggests that there were 900 reports of executions that year only for those with "criminal offenses"!! that's about a 100 times of all reported executions of last year in the world.. --Rayis 11:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a lot of executions.  Anyway, just add the AI information and cite the title, publication date, and whatever else that is needed so that the reader can obtain it if he needs to.  The Behnam 18:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Don't you think we should move the article to 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners? --Rayis 00:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely.  They may have executed some 'normal' prisoners in 1988 but that is ain't what this here article refers to, so I support the move to a more accurate title.  The Behnam 23:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amnesty International 

message: User:Patchouli, who has since earned himself a permanent community ban, was closely involved with this article. Please make sure that the article closely adheres to the standards of NPOV acceptable here. Much thanks, Khodavand 11:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't worry it's being watched closely. However please do not revert blindly, --Rayis 12:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No Rayis ain't a Patchouli sock, and I know Patchouli socks.  You need to give a specific content objection as Patchouli's former involvement alone is not grounds for a neutrality tag.  I've been through this article quite a bit and I don't see it in need of anything except expansion.  In a sense, I've already checked it for neutrality, but if you have a specific problem with the article, please bring it up here for discussion.  And please don't make ill-considered accusations.  Thanks.  The Behnam 14:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha, where are those accusations coming from? and based on what?! Keep your uncivil accusations to yourself, , I suggest you be careful about reverting user's edits based on your baseless accusations --Rayis 16:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Patchouli

message: I've restored the terrorist mention for MKO, as this is generally the convention in RS news sources.  It is also important to context here, since there is a difference between killing a bunch of perceived terrorists and just killing a bunch of 'political' people.  Let's not whitewash the group, as this presents a distorted view of the situation.  The Behnam 17:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats exactly my point, the people who were killed were not all terrorists, they were members of political groups, MKO being one of them. Currently by restoring that version, it looks like all IR did was to kill "terrorists" --Rayis 18:59, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the line right under mentions Communists and other progressive groups.  I am just clarifying MKO's usual classification.  There is no need to worry.  The Behnam 19:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Alright. Well I hope you are OK with the compromised version. I hope to expand on it soon --Rayis 19:07, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah that looks good.  But about the 'it is claimed' part, doesn't that seem odd? I mean, it either happened after or it didn't.  Of course, what is claimed is that there was a causal connection between them, so perhaps that needs to be clarified.  I'll wing it.  The Behnam 19:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Look good?  The Behnam 19:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah I mean it's not too important until it is expanded fully. But I will add sources for that specific part, from what I remember from the Amnesty source, it actually said "It is claimed" (I don't remember what it said the source was) --Rayis 19:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed.  It would be nice to have some more detail about which other progressive groups were also affected.  The Behnam 19:15, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I am not much familiar with the details of the event. But Khomeini's letter clearly mentions the position of PMOI in the Iran-Iraq war and their attack on Iranian borders in cooperation with Saddam Hossein. Then he wrote if those prisoners still support PMOI policy they need to be executed. Khomeini's letter only and only mentions PMOI members and no one else.  To me, his letter is more or less fair. May be he could sentence them to jail for life instead. But obviously, as a leader of the state, he had no right to release those prisoners. Sina Kardar 16:02, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrorist group 

message: As a survivor of 1988 Massecare I believe:
1- There was not any relation between mojahedins attack to Iran and the killing.The procesures
started a long time before.On March 1988 one of  the top clergy in Evin in a gathring warned that
we won't let you live this easy life for ever.We've got plan for you.Sayaad shirazi was present there,giving speach aboat the Iraq war.
2- Several monthes before the execution they talked a lot about the amnesty and were very easy on prisoners,so most of the prisoners start talking openly,and became the target for the execution.
What?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:252:D46:350:6C5B:8099:12E:9BB5 (talk) 06:06, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  I was there. 

message: There is a problem about the date on which the massacre began.  The Robertson report says 29 July, following directly from the NLA offensive against Kermanshah.  Moin's account is consistent with that date, but Abrahamian (and your article) says 19 July (without explanation). I prefer 29 July. 217.42.77.109 (talk) 16:44, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date problem 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.pww.org/article/view/5754/1/231/
** In History of Iran on 2011-03-29 15:02:01, 404 Not Found
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-05-25 05:44:42, 404 Not Found
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-06-24 07:41:47, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 07:42, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/files/Iran%20Massacre%20Report.pdf}}
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-05-25 05:44:48, 404 Not Found
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-06-24 07:41:56, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 07:42, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.gozaar.org/template1.php?id=1078&language=english
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-05-25 05:44:42, 404 Not Found
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-06-24 07:42:08, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 07:42, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 3 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.jstor.org/view/00207438/ap010130/01a00070/0
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-05-25 05:44:42, 404 Not Found
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-06-24 07:42:19, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 07:42, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 4 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.iricrimes.org/alblist.asp
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-05-25 05:44:42, 404 Not Found
** In 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners on 2011-06-24 07:42:29, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 07:42, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 5 

message: Currently the article states in the section Dealing with leftists: The questioners wanted to know if prisoners' fathers prayed, fasted, and read the Qur'an because the sons of devout men could not be called apostates. If they had not been raised in proper Muslim homes first and "exposed to true Islam," they could not be apostates. The first sentence seems to contradict the second, doesn't it? Or am I missing something? Gugganij (talk) 11:07, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

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message: this is a big crime islamic republic regime
some of the news agencies say they kill 30,000 people in 2 month
just because of that they want their stock in country
I do not defend mojahedins , i just say about IR's crimes . 5.122.231.118 (talk) 10:51, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  criminal IR 

message: I have edited out the claim that children were executed. The two sources were the products of campaigns (one by some politicians at the UK House of Commons and the other by Human Rights Watch) and did not cite their own sources. I do not deprecate either the UK parliament or HRW, but neither of these sources of themselves justify the claim being reported as fact at this article. My own instinct is to leave the claims out until/unless an appropriate source is cited rather that qualify the claims. All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 08:25, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm, I’d opt to restore with a  tag. HRW is usually good, no? Zanahary (talk) 00:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Claim that children were executed

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:18, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners →  – Massacre is the WP:COMMONNAME by academics, journalists, and by human rights organizations, more than 30 years after the event, with plenty of time for the dust to settle on a name. It's also a WP:EUPHEMISM for an event in which up to 30,000 people were killed for apparently their political views, in what Amnesty International described as crimes against humanity in 2018. See Amnesty International, Abdorrahman Boroumand Center, Human Rights Watch, Geneva International Centre for Justice, BBC, France24, UPI, group of senior United Nations officials and Nobel prize winners, Telegraph; scholar Nasser Mohajer, report of the inquiry by academic Geoffrey Robertson, scholar Reza Afshari; more than enough WP:RS. Longhornsg (talk) 03:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 22 May 2024