Talk:Christus Victor

message: I did a major rewrite based on the above suggestions and have therefore removed the cleanup flag.
Sharktacos 18:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major Rewrite 

message: I've tagged this article for recentism since it deals almost entirely with the subject only in the context of gaining modern popularity after Aulen's book was published in 1931. It really needs to include information about Christus Victor prior to 1931, since, as the article briefly notes, it was around for a very long time prior to that. --Pstanton (talk) 03:30, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The "Recentism" issue is simply one aspect of a larger issue with the article. Despite numerous edits and a major rewrite by Sharktacos in 2006, I think the original objections by Muzhogg at the top of this Talk page still apply. The problem is that the article wants to source Aulen's book as the seminal work on CV atonement theory, while claiming at the same time that it was the dominant theory for the first millenium of the church. I know that this is what Aulen claimed, but simply assuming it to be true violates npov. What is needed is a rewrite from scratch outlining the major points agreed upon by all CV adherents, finding statements from the Church Fathers on up supporting these points, differentiating (as needed) between CV and Ransom Theory, and fitting Aulen's book in as a clarification and repopularization of that theory. If that can't be done, then Ransom theory is the older view and CV is a modern modification of that view--in which case recentism is appropriate. Bottom line: either Christus Victor is an old view revived and perhaps clarified by Aulen (and perhaps further modified and clarified by others like Boyd), or it stems from Aulen's book. The article can't have it both ways. Schoolmann (talk) 13:49, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  As a matter of clarification: the article as it presently stands would be like an article on Protestantism arguing that Luther rediscovered truths known to the early church but lost due to corruption over time (which is what most Protestants actually believe), and therefore proclaimed Protestantism as the earliest form of Christian theology which nonetheless stemmed primarily from Luther in the 16th century.Schoolmann (talk) 14:11, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Not the Church Fathers, but decent secondary sources. Which do seem to use often the term Christus Victor when treating the ransom thoery; nevertheless, it's quite clear that CV is Aulen's reinterpretation. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:24, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recentism 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Fish-hook theory and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 7#Fish-hook theory until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  signed, Rosguill talk 17:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Fish-hook theory" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Fishhook theory and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 7#Fishhook theory until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  signed, Rosguill talk 17:07, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Fishhook theory" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]