Wikipedia talk:Requested moves/Archive 6

message: When going through entries I find it difficult to see where the move request ends and the explanation for the request begins. I propose that bold be used, as an example:
*Talk:Multiple (disambiguation) – Multiple (disambiguation) → Multiple: This shouldn't need much discussion. Multiple has been a redir to Multiplication for a couple month. It should have simply been turned into a disamb page, but instead was changed to the newly created Multiple (disambiguation)--it's a complete waste of reader's time and Wikipedia resources to pass primary disambiguation thru a redir. However, since Multiple has an edit history it will require an admin to move the disamb content to Multiple where it should be. 24.17.48.241 05:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a lot nicer. I haven't checked the main page to see if you were bold and changed it, but if you haven't, I would. =) —Locke Cole 11:52, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, a definite improvement. Andrewa 21:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed listing format change 

message: There's currently quite a lot of discussion going on at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). I've proposed adding a few notes to the convention, including one on diacritics. Input from more people would be very helpful at this stage. - Haukur 13:12, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There is indeed a lot! Where exactly is the discussion on diacritics? See also Talk:657 Gunlod for a current discussion. Andrewa 19:42, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English) and all the archives to that page If that is not enought there is also Talk:Zürich/Archive1 ... :-( --Philip Baird Shearer 20:03, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: None of these pages reach any conclusions or consensus on the matter of diacritics. Talk:Zürich/Archive1 is a good example of a heated discussion that served no purpose. I wouldn't have archived it, it's all there in the history for those who want it. Andrewa 16:57, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common names, diacritics 

message: where did the figure of 60% being a consensus come from? It's always been 2/3rds majority AFAIK ?!? Jooler 10:44, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See Archive 4 consensus. It has been explicitly set to 60% since May 2005 because because most page move involve less than half a dozen people expressing an opinion and 60% works well with those sorts of numbers. (see stats 1-10 October and Archive_5 stats summary. If you read the other archive pages there is a lot more on this subject. --Philip Baird Shearer 19:38, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

text: 60% is a set number and there was a consensus to place it on this page. Without repeating in too much detail what has been said before and is available in the archives. The 60% works well with small numbers of contributers and any more complicated rules would lead to instruction creep. For small numbers an administrator who wishes to alter the bakance simply has to express an opinion one way or another as that will tip it either over or under 60%. You (WhiteNight) say "several people expressed a desire for a higher threshold for consensus with larger and more controversial discussions" please provide a couple of talk:pages/sections where this has been expressed. --Philip Baird Shearer 20:18, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 60%

message: On the question "what if the talk page is not formatted properly" ie, there is no template or no ==Requested move== or equivalent section, then the move should not be made by an administrator. However, at the administrators discretion if the target page is a redirect then the history to the target page should be edited so that the move can be made by any ordinary user. 
Indeed I think that a statment should be added to the "Procedure for admins" that an administraor may remove the history of the target page so that the requestor can make the move for themselves as this would ease the burden of administering requested moves.  What do others think of this idea? --Philip Baird Shearer 19:38, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This would really help me out, as well as other non-admin users who don't mind moving pages. There are a few in the backlog that simply require an administrator deleting / removing history of the target page so that somebody (anybody!) can move the page. Any other opinions? --Lox (t,c) 14:29, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk page is not formatted properly

message: Any thoughts on creating a speedy rename section (like the one over at Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion)? I was thinking of non-controversial moves of articles that have been created and incorrectly titled, and whose redirect has more than one edit, e.g. currently:
:Johnny McGovern → Jonny McGovern
can't be moved my a non-admin since two edits have been made to the correct Jonny McGovern. If of course anyone objects to a speedy rename, they can retag it with a move template. Any thoughts?
:Nah - this has proposed before and basically people will put a bunch of stuff that is not a speedy rename in that section, plus it gives people an excuse not to use the move template which is required for a reason. Even in seemingly obvious moves there are sometimes obvious objections - also in obvious circumstances such as mispellings it will be moved early by an admin if the backlog is taken care of. WhiteNight T | @ | C 22:39, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Speedy Rename" section for those which require admin assistance? 

message: There is substantial disquiet at the talk page for this river over a recent request for it to be moved back to River Plate (where I moved it and it stayed for almost a year before it was move to its present position).  I think it should go back to River Plate but outside opinions are canvassed, particularly given the procedural history outlined on Talk:Río de la Plata. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the substantial disquiet began as a result of my having moved it, after a week of rather noncontentious discussion, from "River Plate" to "Río de la Plata".   The disquiet is coming from people who, for whatever reason, did not participate in the discussion preceding that move.  As ALoan indicates, this has been hashed and rehashed w/o resulting in consensus on the incredibly long talk page.  Finally a vote was called (rather prematurely, IMHO) and when it was closed a slight majority favored "Río de la Plata".  As a result of my having moved it, a sock-puppet Portable (contribs) was created by [suspected user's name withheld|someone], in order to assist in reverting articles back to "River Plate" and to argue in favor of "River Plate" a week later on the TALK page.  The discussion has, on more than one occasion, become rather discourteous (to put it mildly). Tomertalk 13:30, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

text: As was pointed out, repeatedly, the original discussion before the move was restricted to those who were watching "River Plate", and the rest of us did not know any discussion was taking place until people started changing links to the article from e.g. Battle of the River Plate. We could only make our opinions known after the event. -- Arwel (talk) 23:26, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[River Plate]] / [[Río de la Plata]]

message: The Dorset Premier League should be moved to the page Dorset Premier Football League. Can an administrator help me with this as soon as possible? Thank You. --Siva1979Talk to me 14:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dorset Premier Football League 

message: Unobstructed, uncontroversial moves: Moves of this nature can be accomplished by any logged in user using the [move] tab located at the top of every page.
This is wrong. I get
You cannot move pages because either you are not logged in, or your account is too new. In the latter case, please list the page at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Please do not attempt to "move" the page via copying and pasting its content, as that destroys the page's history.
(account created just for the move; normally I'm an IP in the english Wikipedia). It should be changed by somebody who knows how old an account must be before it can move a page. --.x 13:34, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This needs to be fixed.  I'm trying to move a page (Dr Pepper Ballpark → Dr. Pepper Ballpark) and it gives me the same message.  Yeah, I made my account yesterday, but I can't find any place where it says the minimum age has to be.  Could someone clarify? --Kevin 01:17, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I realized that I don't have to move the page I intended to move.  However, for future reference could someone clarify the "age" limit to move pages?--Kevin 02:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is part of the 96-hour limitation on new accounts' creating new articles.  Unfortunately, this was necessary as an anti-vandalism measure.  Robert A.West (Talk) 02:38, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made many new articles during my brief history (lots of redirects referring to said ballpark).  Are you sure about the 96 hour limitation?--Kevin 03:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I am not certain.  I have seen references to a 96-hour restriction on some things, but I won't swear to details.  Sorry if my reply was not helpful: you might try Village Pump/Policy. Robert A.West (Talk) 04:55, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What requested moves is not for 

message: My proposals (please respond/discuss/vote on sub page so as not to disrupt regular discussion here)
#I am quite satisfied with the m:9/11 wiki move proposal argument style and I propose it here for all deletions. 
#I also propose the merging of Wikipedia:Requested moves and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion (Articles for deletion). Perhaps a system that takes care of both moves (renames), deletion and keeps would be more productive. 
#*Articles for deletion is misleading, this is not a page where only deletions are determined. Many (if not most) end up as keep or move/rename as well as delete. Also the process is more like a vote which is easily infested by "vote only accounts" and other nonsense
:--Cool CatTalk|@ 02:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Patch]]

message: In :Category:Requested moves there are many article talk pages listed where the article has been deleted.  Can those talk pages be deleted?  Vegaswikian 09:10, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talk pages 

message: I came across :Category:Norma Elizabeth Boyd, wich is an article written in category space. It should be at Norma Elizabeth Boyd. Problem is there is no way to move the page I tried modifying the URL to get the move form, but as I suspected moving categories are restricted. In this case I guess a cut & paste move would be ok since there is only one editor, but a "proper" move would still be the best IMHO. Would this kind of thing be something we could bother devs to fix? --Sherool (talk) 20:58, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving category history 

message: Does anyone else think that logging each requested move as an entry in a table would make for easier reading?   Given what the current procedure requires, I don't think it would be any more complicated or potentially confusing. In fact, implementing a tabular approach might offer an opportunity to simplify the process, e.g. the only method for logging a request given in the instructions (i.e. for those folk not yet au fait with the process) is a subst:template method along the lines of the current subst:WP:RM, say:

...which would produce:
 |-
 | [CurrentTitle] || [ProposedTitle] || [Rationale]
...in the table (e.g. of class=wikitable) set up for that day's requests. As presently, the instructions would need to emphasise that the  must be added immediately above the most recent entry. Also, I suppose some version of the bot currently used to start a new day's section in WP:CfD would be needed to set up each day's table, e.g.:
===[Day] [Month] [Year===

Current Title	Proposed Title	Rationale	Please enter your request as a  immediately below this line; thank you. Please see instructions above if you are unsure what to enter.
[blank line here]	Please enter your request as a  immediately below this line; thank you. Please see instructions above if you are unsure what to enter.
[blank line here]	Please enter your request as a  immediately below this line; thank you. Please see instructions above if you are unsure what to enter.
[blank line here]

...or the like. As is the case with the present system, it wouldn't be difficult for a more experienced user to sort out a mistake left by someone not quite managing to follow the instructions. What do people think?
Thanks, David Kernow 15:50, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As the sole admin who deals with this shtuff daily (well, okay, occasionally one or two other admins pop in and do one or two), I think it's worth trying. Feel free to go ahead with it. Cheers, —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 09:43, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, I'm not yet exploring the possibility, but an instruction along the lines of  to produce the above – coupled with an example – seems more straightforward than the present suggestions (note plural). Regards, David Kernow 23:33, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tabulation? 

message: Recently people have been changing the formats produced by the template:WP:RM. I think this is a really bad idea as it has not been discussed on this page first. The template is meant to make it easier to format a request in a standard way as descibed in the section "Steps for requesting a page move", but until I reverted it just now it was producing a new format which is not discussed on the WP:RM page.
The reason for having the Talk page listed first is two fold:
* It makes the talk page easy to find as it is always in the same place not a variable way along a line of text.
* It makes it easy to copy from the "PageName" to the end of the entry for pasting onto the talk page.  If the talk page is between the PageName and the signature at least two copy and pasts or one copy and past followed by a delete are needed-- either way more work.
--Philip Baird Shearer 21:35, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it was I, experimenting with something that hopefully would be easier to read (wider spacings between the RM elements) and, in an attempt to invite people to read a rationale before finding the talk-page link, presented a different ordering of the RM elements. It also indicated why the talk-page link was there ("Vote/discuss at...") for those new to WP:RM. Do you feel the WP:RM page looks cluttered?  Regards, David Kernow 23:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Fair enough; the previous disquiet over "vote" also noted. I'm not on a crusade to reform the WP:RM page, but am still thinking of following up the table idea at some point. Multiple page renames, though uncommon, may or may not (be able to) work well with it. Thanks for your thoughts, David Kernow 02:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When I see a move debate, I first want to know *what* shall be moved *where*, and only then where the discussion takes place... IMO at least. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 10:57, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

text: As another maintainer of this page I like Nightstallion's way as well. Besides, one could argue that even in Philip's argument where it is "more inconvenient" that people should really read the proposal before discussing - however, I fail to see how someone is forced to read the proposal as before Night's changes it was slightly less clear. Anyway, I'd recommend "share your opinion" instead of "discussion/vote" but that's a definate personal preference. Just another star in the night T | @ | C 11:26, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: subst:WP:RM|PageName|NewName|reason for move

message: Should such moves just be listed normally here (as i have done in the past) or is there a better way to handle them? Plugwash 17:23, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they should be listed normally here. In fact that was what this page was originally intended for. However since delay and discussion is only required for controversial moves, it would probably be a good idea to have a separate section within the page for obstructed but uncontroversial moves. -- Derek Ross | Talk 17:44, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obstructed but uncontroversial moves. 

message: Hello. Wh[ere] do I go if I want to rename a photo that I've uploaded? __earth (Talk) 04:29, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi __earth. So far as I'm aware, the only method is to reupload the image under the new name, then mark the previous one for (speedy) deletion (e.g. use the  template). Regards, David Kernow 10:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: THanks! __earth (Talk) 06:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  photo rename 

message: Unobstructed, uncontroversial moves 
    Moves of this nature can be accomplished by any logged-in user using the [move] 
    tab located at the top of every page. See Help:Moving a page.
Unfortunately, I get: 
 You cannot move pages because ... your account is too new ... please list the 
 page at Wikipedia:Requested moves ...
Not well documented, eh? And how long has this lovely little rule been in effect? Sorry, I don't even know what the time restriction is, or I'd fix it. -Dan 06:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been in effect for quite a while.  What are you trying to move?  — Arthur Rubin |  (talk) 07:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I took care of it. Discussion on the village pump as to the general case. -Dan 08:52, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unable to move 

message: On March 2nd I put up List of slang used in hip hop music for a move to hip hop slang and there was noone who disagreed with it on the talk page, and yet it was still removed.  Why?--Urthogie 17:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason could be its non-notability. --Siva1979Talk to me 17:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Or maybe because you didn't follow all the suggestions at WP:RM#Steps for requesting a page move e.g. Step 3? Your original suggestion was Glossary of hip-hop slang which is still free -- maybe you should just move it and see if anyone complains? Ewlyahoocom 18:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My suggestion was hip hop slang, nothing about glossaries.  and yes, hip hop slang is notable, as its a cultural phenomenon that has been covered by the mainstream press throughout the world.  it is notable for its role in culture, music, and lingustics.  so can someone move it?--Urthogie 20:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reasons were that you didn't follow all of the steps and that the article had meanwhile been butchered due to its non-encyclopedia-ness. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 20:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok.  I'll re-do the whole thing, process-perfect!--Urthogie 21:00, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Re: "My suggestion was hip hop slang, nothing about glossaries." Oops! I guess I misread your comment. Ewlyahoocom 17:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  why was my RM removed? 

message: This page should tell new users not to request here as they will be able to move pages a few days after signing up (AFAIK)? 218.102.220.129 13:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Regards, User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 22:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggested wording addition for main page to address new users

message: Conversation refactored per mutual agreement of both parties. Original version can be seen here. --04:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What to do in 'no consensus, leaning on move'? 

message: Please see . Today it was proposed that Zygmunt III Vasa is to be moved to Sigismund III Vasa. Shortly after the vote begun this mess happened. I would request that a neutral admin steps in and do whatever he feels is appopriate, I am afraid that my attempt to straigthen this mess (which currently invalidates the RM) would probably not be taken in the good faith spirit.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 04:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As soon as this issue was resolved, a similar one appeared at .--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 00:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving a page in the middle of the RM vote