Talk:Hibari Misora

message: If anyone cares: Currently 3/4 of the body of the article is on Misora's death. A heavily-sourced new paragraph has recently been added in order to creat a debate about her ethnicity. There is passing, completely unsourced mention at the top of the article that she may have sang a bit, and appeared in some movies. Is this proper coverage of the life and career of one of the most famous celebrities in post-war Japan? I added a couple filmography references, and I'd work on the article too, but I've got other projects going on here. It does seem to me, though, that anyone who really cared about the subject would work on the article rather than engage in edit-warring. Dekkappai 17:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was minor edit-warring going on about the Korean thing before, but I think my suggestion to cite sources has maybe caused more harm than good here...  I also think that this article should be much longer considering how famous she was... translating from the Japanese article would probably be a good place to start, but my Japanese skills aren't up to it. --Galaxiaad 20:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, that's my point. There should be a worthwhile article before (if?) this nationality squabbling comes up. She's an interesting subject who deserves a lengthy, well-written article. And this ethnicity debate is just a footnote to the life and career of Misora. (Also, I would hazzard a guess that this sort of constant squabbling does little to make either side look good in the eyes of most native English-readers.) I hope an editor steps up to do some real work on the article. Dekkappai 21:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does anyone really care about this article? 

message: This article claims: "There exists Korean sources as well as English-language non-Korean sources that claim that Hibari Misora was ethnic Korean. However, this claim is not substantiated by any Japanese source." 
A couple things trouble me about this last sentence. First, I don't think it's true. I have a Japanese-language source here quoted in Lie's book published in 1992 by Oruta, entitled "Rikidouzan densetsu" (pp. 49-57) in which the author Min-gi Hwang clearly argues that Misora was of Korean descent, as was her husband, the singer-actor Kobayashi Akira. Second, the WP article's sentence, as it reads now, is too sweeping a claim and smacks of original research without a proper citation to back it up. 
I would have re-worded the sentence myself, but I want to wait until the editor which placed that sentence into the article has a chance to add a citation. Best, J Readings 09:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the whole issue is never going to be resolved-- there will be partisans on both sides of the argument who will never let it rest-- and, more importantly, it is almost entirely irrelevant to Misora's life, career and biography. I suggest taking out the whole section, and adding a bit at the beginning of her early life along the lines of "There have been claims and counter-claims that the family was of Korean descent" with citations to the best source linked for both sides of the argument. (I put something like that in earlier, but it was taken out.) Maybe then some significant work can be started on the actual article? Dekkappai 16:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Also- it seems to me than a standard encyclopedia article on Misora (as opposed to an article in an encyclopedia specializing in Korea/Japan releations) would mention this issue in a footnote, if at all. Since this paragraph has much more to do with Japan/Korea relations than with Misora's life and career (which should be the focus of this article), maybe this paragraph can be put into a more appropriate article. If there is there one on famous zainichi Koreans, it would be better there than here, I think. Neither Misora nor Korea/Japan relations are in my area of editing interest, however. Just putting in my two-cents worth. Dekkappai 17:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: First of all, Hibari's parents are both Japanese. His father got drafted in WWII. In those days, Korean descendants were absolved from draft because of in the early days of annexation. And The people who say she was Korean descendant have never exhibited like that one of particular her ancestor was Korean. So this allegation that she has Korean ancestor has no reason, and many books say no reason that she has korean ancestor. This was one of Probatio diabolica. So who want to say it is true must quote a reason, and if he can't, it should be addressed that it is not true. Many books of earnest attempts of it say she is Japanse and doesn't have Korean ancestors, so it must be written first that it wasn't true, and if new reason will be found, then we should rewrite it. Star80 10:07, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fortunately (or unfortunately), we are writing an encyclopedia entry. A publicly verifiable Japanese-language source (as well as several English and Korean sources) makes the claim that Hibari Misora was of Korean descent. We can't cover up these sources to promote a POV article or engage in original research to debate the substance of the claims (both are unacceptable to Wikipedia). Debating the actual substance may have its place in other venues, but not here. We are writing an article which is based on secondary sources only, not primary sources. Personally, I am rather indifferent to Misora's nationality, but I take issue with the idea that secondary sources must be removed because a fellow editor disagrees with them. J Readings 11:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously, this issue's (probably) never going to be resolved, and more important, it's not our place to attempt to resolve it. Any agreement with my idea of just taking out that whole section and putting in a passing reference to both sides of the article where it mentions her parents? Dekkappai 15:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese Sources

message: Do Hibari's parents have the same surnames? I'm looking at the "Childhood/Early Life" section of this piece of artwork, and then it says the parents had the same surnames? Did the mom change it after she got married, or did they really happen to bear the same last name? ★Dasani★ 21:07, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no outside sources at hand right now, but judging from the phrasing, I don't think this should be an issue. Hibari's mother presumably took her husband's name when she married, giving birth to her daughter after having done so; thus, at the time of young Kazue Katō's birth, her parents had the same surname, as most parental couples do all around the world. LordAmeth (talk) 21:38, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I see. I'm sorry if it came off as an "issue"; I just wanted to know if they had the same surname or not... Although, like you pointed out, most women do hand over to the husband's surname after they walk down the aisle (or lack thereof, depending on the culture; generally though, they do because a formal entrance is more obvious), however most Japanese and Chinese women tend to enjoy keeping their surnames, I don't know why, but even if they change it, it would say their maiden names (that's what I saw in other Asian celeb articles). Well, thanks. ★Dasani★ 21:07, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parents surnames? 

message: At the beginning of the article it says she recorded 1200 songs, and later it says 1401. Also, some song titles are in italics and translated into English, while others are in quotation marks with romanization of the Japanese. This should be more consistent. Moisejp (talk) 07:11, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of songs she recorded 

message: An IP editor has recently deleted all the information sourced to Mark Anderson's contribution to the Encyclopedia of Contemporary Japanese Culture.  The IP claims that the writer is a student, providing this uninformative link as proof [. In fact Mark Anderson is on faculty at the University of Minnesota. .  I have restored all the information.--Slp1 (talk) 13:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent Edits

message: The article says this song was featured on a radio program, but it seems it (along with 12-year-old Misora) was actually in a movie of the same name (Kanashiki Kuchibue).  I can't check the reference--can whoever added it check their copy of the book, or can someone find another source? --Galaxiaad (talk) 05:43, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "Kanashiki Kuchibue"

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thread_title: File:Ano oka koete poster.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Hibari Misora. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150407103850/http://www.nhk.or.jp/archives/nhk50years/categories/p54/index.html to http://www.nhk.or.jp/archives/nhk50years/categories/p54/index.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I propose deleting the following section because it is irrelevant, unsourced, and is based on a misunderstanding of the word "notorious." If there is any opposition, please discuss. If after a reasonable interval there is no objection, I will delete it:
::Label’s notoriety[edit]
::In 1995, six years after Hibari Misora’s death, Misora’s former label Nippon Columbia also became notorious for releasing music by pop singer Ayumi Hamasaki, the best-selling solo artist in Japanese Oricon history (since 1968), before her rise to fame. After Hamasaki’s hip hop-themed mini-album “Nothing from Nothing”, along with its accompanying single of the same title, failed to chart due to little or no promotion, Hamasaki was dropped from the label. She subsequently met her current producer, Max Matsuura, who is now president of Avex Group.
Jackaroodave (talk) 02:09, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Deletion: "Label's Notoriety"  

message: One of the references in the section about ancestry dispute is currently a bare link that is permanently dead: http://www.goodsarchive.com/kakaku/4062098172.html. It seems the last part of that URL was an ISBN and it should be  (Yoshida is mentioned as having investigated Misora's background in the last sentence). Can someone verify (and fix) this? —MwGamera (talk) 12:45, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bare dead link 

message: The description in this section gives undue weight to misinformation spread based on rumors and should be removed. The basis of this hypothesis was only a rumor spread at one time by some Koreans living in Japan. It has been established that Hibari Misora has nothing to do with Korean blood line, and as of 2022, there is no controversy at all. At one point, some Koreans living in Japan made the same argument against Hidetoshi Nakata and Ichiro Suzuki, but their pages do not contain such nonsense.--Tiretire (talk) 10:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Question of Korean ancestry

message: A title intended to attract attention, but I just want to point out that there's a tiny issue with the parentheses around the Japanese text of her stage name: one seems to be missing.  Perhaps it was because the り (ri) character looks a bit like a ) at a casual glance....? Malav71 (talk) 03:02, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Her name 

message: This article needs a thorough rewrite due to its emphasis on trivia; in its present state, it reads like an IMDb entry, or a personal blog. (Actually, many of the sources/references given are blogs, dead links etc.)
Also, the section on Mrs. Misora's ethnicity should probably be removed completely or reduced to a single one sentence mention; at present, it only serves as an excuse for awful nationalist/racialist comments here in the talk section like "might be one of the Japanese for whom the Korean yearns", "has nothing to do with Korean blood line" or "Japan Koreans had very high cirme [sic] rate esp. in 1950". Robert Kerber (talk) 21:18, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:HTRIVIA]], [[WP:RS]] and questionable section on ethnicity