Talk:Suebi

message: Poles refer to all Germans "Shvabs" or "Shkops", (both terms being extremely derogatory); not just to Ukrainian ones, of whom knowledge in Poland is practically non - existent. 
The official slavonic name for Germans - Nemce, or Niemcy meant: "mutes" or "dumb people".
Space Cadet
"Shvab" is probably "Szwab", likely from German "Schwab", a demonym for people from Scwabenland (German -- English Swabia). 
Polish is not an easy language for Germans to learn, and it is hardly unique to Poles to see foreigners struggling with the local language and having strange ways of life to be seen as "dumb", and it's easy to understand that people who seem awkward in adapting to the linguistic ways of a new land to quite talking. The proverb that it is wiser to stay silent and seem stupid than to open one's mouth and leave all doubt is not strictly American.
Now for a more relevant question: are the Suebi in any way connected to Schwabenland (Swabia), a former region of Germany now split between Bavaria and Baden-Wurttenburg? 
Pbrower2a (talk) 17:07, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: the german name of the region is Schwaben NOT Schwabenland178.210.114.106 (talk) 17:10, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Schwabenland kommt nur einmal in einem Gedicht vor ,da war ein Herr aus Schwabenland, von hohem Wuchs und starker Hand'. Ist also dem Reim geschuldet und nicht historisch. 213.165.185.130 (talk) 14:11, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Names

message: The Svear of Sweden and the Suevi/Suebi/Suabi were all closely related Germanic people. What evidence or probability exists of the Suevi and the Svear being identical, i.e., a single tribe, during the first few centuries A.D.?
:Why not give your Swedish quotes of Svear and their sources (dates are important), and leave the question open? --Wetman 04:51, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suevi = Sueones = Svear? 

message: The tribal names (etymology) for Suebis and Swedes are identical, their homeland was along the German Baltic coasts and perhaps are connected with Sweden by Jutland (Denmark) and the island of Bornholm. But to think about the Suebi may have possible Slavic origins is another possibility to rule out. The Sorbs or Sorbians are West Slavic-speaking inhabitants of modern-day Saxony in eastern Germany. They are closely related to the Serbs of Serbia in the Balkans, the two tribes separated when another moved south in the 7th century AD. For the Germanic Suebi to have a partial Slavic component if not by similar enonyms is in need for further investigation before any inclusion of my ethnological theory, it's what I have in mind. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 05:25, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suebi tied to Sorbi? 

message: the link of Drusus must be "de-ambuguiated"
:Done!--Berig 17:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ambuguity of Drusus 

message: The following is incomprehensible without some enlarging: "[Tacitus] included all North Germanic and East Germanic tribes that were not directly annexed by the Romans, but this was due to a misunderstanding." What misunderstanding? What then were the actual facts, according to modfern historians? --Wetman 09:55, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tacitus' "misunderstanding"

message: Hello Wetman. This is just a theoretical observation; I don't yet see where it impacts the article seriously, but "ethnic" even though you don't like it has a fairly concrete meaning in English and often nothing else will do. The classical writers certainly believed in it and used it often, and it formed their observations and beliefs, so we can't just drop it from the classics and from modern English. I understand why you don't like it as it has all sorts of unscientific and often deadly connotations and denotations and is vague and imprecise. Nevertheless we use it and so did the ancients. So any identity is likely to be a "race" or a "people" or a "tribe" on any basis whatever and it is up to us to figure out what they meant. We can't just excise ethnic from English.Dave 19:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The reader may wonder at this! I had removed "ethnic" from the remark "...Indo-european root *swe-. Some related English words are: sibling, sister, swain, self, ethnic." Why? In this list the derivation of "ethnos" from PIE *swe- is remote enough to distract the ordinary reader— while goosing the well-informed amateur PIE linguist with a little self-congratulatory flush. I deleted it simply to strengthen the point that was being made. As to Dave Botteville's other deletion, I know and Dave Botteville knows, and you all know, that the asterisk in front of *swe- indicates that it is a reconstruction. Dave informs us "You don't need the postulated; all IE roots are reconstructions, which is designated in linguistics by the *. Nothing is being asserted or 'postulated.'" Needless to say. But there's no reason to hang on quite so tight to information that may orient the Wikipedia reader through this thought. --Wetman 00:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The word ethnic

message: I removed this for now:
Modern historiansThe modern view of the Suebi is laid out in two volumes stemming from papers delivered at a series of seminars at Göttingen in 1986 and 1987, Günther Neumann and Henning Seemann, eds., Beiträge zum Verständnis der Germania des Tacitus, (Göttingen) 1989, 1992. consider this an over-simplification.The article Sveber in Nordisk familjebok.
What it seems to say is exactly the opposite of what the scholars think. They think Tacitus has too many tribes in the Suebi. Thus Tacitus' view is not over-simple but over-elaborate, implying that the scholars have a view yet more elaborate of which Tacitus' is an oversimplification. I suppose you could argue that Tacitus is being oversimple in being overelaborate. This seems rather indirect to me. Now, the reference is on the oversimplification. What oversimplification? You have not in any way said and so the reader has to read the 2 volumes to find out what you mean. Unfortunately they are in German, so he has to learn German. We expect too much of him, don't you think? Moreover, the volumes are presented as "The modern view." Oh really? Is there any other or is it all there in those two volumes? Do they present one view or many? By what world-wide authority did it get to be "the"? This is really a weasel word, isn't it? You are trying to weasel out of saying anything.Dave 01:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The modern view

message: I removed this:
Tacitus hypothesized that other tribes emanated from it, such as the Quadi and the Marcomanni and probably also the Hermunduri.The article Sveber in Nordisk familjebok. The Suebi tribal group also included the Alamanni and the Langobards,The article Suebi in Encyclopædia Britannica online, retrieved January 26, 2007. but whether the latter group were part of the Suebi is doubtful.  
In the 1st century AD, the Suebi were concentrated at the Elbe river, but the Huns would make some of them cross the Rhine and reach the Iberian Peninsula.
Tacitus makes no such implication and the on-line Britannica - what we can see of it without buying - does not mention the topic. As for the Swedish ref, most of us can't read that so I don't know what it does say. If it says Tacitus says these tribes "come from" the the Suebi in the narrow sense, it is wrong. More generally, the problem with hypothesizing that all these tribes come from Caesar's Suebi is that first of all Tacitus does not take that view and second Suebia is a very large territory, over half of Germany. Although you can argue that the Marcomanni and Quadi came downstream from Caesar's Suebi, you can't deal at all with Suiones, the Balts and the Finno-Ugrians in this way and have no choice but to arbitrarily reject all parts of Tacitus except those that fit that narrow hypothesis; hence, the need to invent a great skepticism of Tacitus. But if Tacitus is unreliable in those parts, why would he be reliable in all the rest? We need to take the most general and open interpretation here and in fact all the articles on the Balts take Tacitus seriously about the Aestii and the etymologists do connect Suebi with Suiones. So, whatever the prehistoric migrational situation was we can't assume it all happened just before Caesar got there. Either we just throw Tacitus totally out as some kind of hortatory propaganda or we have to consider everything he says. I don't say we can't find evidence to dispute it. But in fact Tacitus corresponds more or less to Ptolemy and the other sources, which I will be bringing in below. As for the part about the Huns, well, that information is covered in the parts of the article that deal with that time, which is at the very end of the classical Suebic identity. Understand, the population of the Suebi did not suddenly vanish, they only started assuming other identites, such as Alamannic, Alsatian, Bavarian, Swiss, eventually Austrian, what have you. In any case only some of them were concentrated on the Elbe; that is, the statement takes the narrow view. On to the rest of the article.Dave 15:51, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Repetitious or wrong text

message: Mr Talessman: what your map's contribution?  There are better executed and more precise maps already in the article.Andrarias (talk) 04:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mr Andrarias, have you actually looked at the maps, or are you just sockpuppeting for Srnec? They show the location of Suebian Kingdom, along with other nations. What's wrong with that? I'll be replacing them with zoomed-in versions soon, but for now I have to waste time with bigoted editors who think they are wiki-gods because they get to be anonymous here. Thomas Lessman (talk) 20:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please stop edit warring. I appreciate that a new map is included, showing both Suebian areas at once, in Portugal and at the Rhine, but then huge a "one size fits all" map that covers half of Africa and Asia, too, is a temporary solution at best. Please crop to relevant area, cutting non-relevant parts. Also, the spelling "Alammania" is new to me (and Albania at the Kaspian Sea). -- Matthead  DisOuß   15:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Talessman's map

message: The following sourced information might be valuable, though it's been deleted twice: John of Biclarum, however, places the Suebic conversion later and ascribes it, not to a Suebe, but to a Visigoth, placing it alongside that of the Goths, which occurred under Reccared I in 587–589.  John of Biclarum might not be any more credible than Isidore of Seville, but wise readers of Wikipedia don't neglect to read the Talk pages.  --Wetman (talk) 09:14, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the deletions were accidental. The text is in there now, albeit in bulletted form. Srnec (talk) 00:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Srnec. I should count to a hundred before using the verb suppressed. And a wiser head than mine could begin each edit perfectly fresh, not letting irritants from utterly unrelated editing encounters accumulate in unwarranted suspicions. You've nicely accepted my apologies before. I hope you'll do so now again, --Wetman (talk) 01:45, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Suppressed

message: Well, I`m a little upset now -and when I say little I mean it-. Recently I modified the article, adding a reference to the Second Council of Braga. It was a catholic council celebrated the Spanish Era 610, i.e. 572 A.D., under king Miro. Here is the headline "CONCILIUM BRACARENSE SECUNDUM DUODECIM EPISCOPORUM habitum anno secundo regis Mironis, die Kalendarum Iuniarum, aera DCX." So, the first council is not the only contemporary record, and there is some evolution from the first to the second one.
Then, also, in the Third Council of Toledo, that met the year 589, the visigothic king expressed about the recent conversion of its kingdom: "Nec enim sola Gothorum conversio ad cumulum nostrae mercedis accessit, quin immo et Suevorum gentis infinita multitudo, quam praesidio caelesti nostro regno subiecimus." That is, king Reccared celebrates not only the conversion of the Goths, but also of an infinite number of Suevi.
So, I would say that John Blicarense's Chronica is second hand to this conversion, thought it is a primary and reliable source for the time.
Accordingly, I`m changing again the article, trying to be respectfull with other editors choices.--Cadroiolos (talk) 09:35, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Second Council of Braga and The Conversion 

message: In case anyone is wondering. I do not have lots of time but I am working on this article in a non-random way. The classical sources section has been improved but I guess many people will agree with me that such a summary of every primary source is not really a great way to approach this subject on WP. But my idea is to start with what we have, get it right, and then move the classical information into more logical sections such as concerning maybe origins, locations, tribes and a I think definitely a section on classical historical events involving the Suebi. In the longer run of course more secondary sources would be desirable, but as with any such classical subject known only from a few classical snippets, it can be helpful to improve a poor article by first building a foundation which recognizes those snippets. (The secondary literature in classical subjects is enormous but a very mixed bag. So starting with that can make it hard to think straight.)--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 12:08, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  currently working on this article 

message: "The Germanic invaders settled mainly in the areas of Braga (Bracara Augusta), Porto (Portus Cale), Lugo (Lucus Augusti) and Astorga (Asturica Augusta)." 
I do not trust this sentence after reading some information and understanding the naming of localities of supposed suebi origin. The suebi inhabited rural areas, not urban ones, as the article is trying to hint. --user:PedroPVZ (talk) 18:34, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Settlement areas

message: It should be mentioned that a district of Mannheim is called Suebenheim. Mannheim is located near Rhine. --2.245.79.34 (talk) 09:56, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suebenheim 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This question seems to me to be something suggested in some sources, but I can't quickly think of one that says it outright. If it is true or even thought to be likely, then it would be very notable and even deserving note in the first sentences. Does anyone else know of any sources which are clear about this? (By the way for anyone wondering about the Franks, it was stated in classical sources that at least two of the border tribes were descended from the Chatti, and the others were apparently mixed within alliances with the Cherusci for a while.) If my remark here is easier to source for "Irminones" than for "Suebi" then the question of the notability for this article still does not go away?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 09:19, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears that the Germanic languages were initially brought to continental Europe by the Jastorf culture, which preceded the emergence of the Suebi. Germanic languages were however not brought to Southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland until the Marcomanni, Alemanni, Quadi etc (who were part of the Suebi) settled there at the expense of Gauls around the 1st century AD. In that sense one can say that the Suebi brought Germanic languages to this part of continental Europe. This is already mentioned in the lead. Krakkos (talk) 14:43, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but apparently I phrased my question badly. Just for the sake of getting it on record for future consideration: 1. I think your explanation is also not quite right. Germanic is a branch of the European family of Indo-European languages, so it presumably came into being as a dialect, in Europe itself. 2. While you may be right about the Southern German and Alpine area, there are certainly some linguists who doubt that we should be confident about whether the early NON-Suebian (or perhaps non Irmionic is a better term) Germanic tribes, actually spoke a language which would be categorized today as Germanic, even if it was a kind of lost cousin for example. Remember we have very little evidence for that and in fact Celtic seems to have been the cultural language that comes across in "German" names etc. The Suebian (and presumably related Chatti and Cherusci) German seems to have over-run the earlier languages of northern Germany or else they would be more distinct. (The consonant changes and other things which distinguish north and south German mainly happened later.)--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 21:57, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the explanation. Perhaps you would be able to explain the difference between inhabitants of Scandinavia and speakers of North Germanic/Scandinavian languages? There is an ongoing discussion about this at Talk:North Germanic peoples, and my efforts to explain this difference has so far been without success. Krakkos (talk) 15:36, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are the Suebi the peoples who brought Germanic languages to modern Germanic speaking continental regions? 

message: Some guy just edited the beginning of the article to interpret the Suebi as Moors. Can we put the article under protection from future vandalism? Bornoutofsteel (talk) 23:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems a very small incident, and not worthy of emergency action?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 10:24, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I Agree. Krakkos (talk) 12:36, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

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