Talk:NESARA

message: I have a suspicion that NESARA believers are editing this page and removing, in bits and pieces, any material that refers to NESARA as a conspiracy theory. See recent edits by  and , and more blatant edits on the NESARA page in the past few days. The article should be carefully watched for such edits. If I'm mistaken, 84.59.58.218, then please use this discussion page to justify your recent edits. - 
*I've been noticing too an increase in edits by the conspiracy theorists over the last month. Thankfully the wikignomes have outnumbered them. I see no justification posted on any page regarding NESARA for these Pro-NESARA Conspiracy viewpoints. Keep up the good work and vigilance. Thanks to the gnomes that have stepped in to help. inigmatus 18:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page must be watched carefully for creeping POV 

message: The people who claim this is a hoax are only afriad because to admit this is true one must change the roots of their beliefs and go against the grain of society. Unfortanately they do not understand that they have been purposely mislead down the wrong path. They have been placed in a fog of missinformation for their whole lives making it nearly impossible to accept or learn any outside truth.
Unfortanately your college education ($$) means nothing, so dont pull the whole "intellectual" card on me or anyone else who chooses to believe in things you choose not to accept.
Many of you disbelievers are consumed by darkness. I hope that one day you will learn to love and accept light.
To the tricksters, your time is up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.150.161 (talk • contribs)  on 12 April 2006.
: This language, complete with unusual spelling is typical of the internet messages that are posted by 'Dove of Oneness' and other NESARA Supporters.  Wikipedians should be aware that the root of this hoax is an ongoing finanical Con called Omega Trust which to date, has bilked people out of over &20 Millions dollars.  Please work to keep this article safe from vandalism.  Thanks. Lisapollison 19:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  "[...]Unfortanately your college education ($$) means nothing, so dont pull the whole "intellectual" card on me or anyone else who chooses to believe in things you choose not to accept. Many of you disbelievers are consumed by darkness. I hope that one day you will learn to love and accept light." Man, sufferers of Paranoid Schizophrenia sure are an amusing bunch of people. I keep reading this insane "NESARA" -theory over and over again, and constantly feel the people advocating it are like one paragraph from proclaiming "LOLZ OH AND THE JEWS WERE BEHINDS 911 TOO, LOLZ!!!1!!". The people behind this "theory" are clearly severely mentally ill. In all honesty; shouldn't this page be deleted? 83.233.169.208 16:50, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  the ones who claim NESARA is a hoax are the real tricksters 

message: I'd like to remove the "lack of notability" concern for deletion. I believe these concerns were adequately addressed as can be seen in the request for deletion logs of almost a year ago. Here's an excerpt (note: the John Shimkus link is no longer active and I can't find a mirror. The Gorenfeld link also has moved, but I found a mirror and updated the link):
* The News Tribune, a newspaper in Tacoma, Washington, did a large multi-story exposé on NESARA , (which is very interesting reading in and of itself). The news tribune website ranks 24,687 on alexa . As a newspaper, it has a weekend circulation of 144,000  (the first part of the exposé was published on the weekend). Quatloos.com has an alexa rating of 63,753  and has several pages debunking NESARA. NESARA has been discussed on radio on the Jeff Rense program. NESARA people often hold public protests and show up at other groups' protests, (see  for an image of a NESARA protester standing next to Ralph Nader, also  and that entire page for more), have carried out expensive truck billboard campaigns in Washington DC ( for images, and see "The Trucks"  for more detail and verification that they're not photoshopped images). They also hold protests outside the world court in The Netherlands (see  for the images of these protests - yes, the site is crazy, I'm posting the link for the images). They frequently send postcards to the world court, and to members of congress - one congressman, John Shimkus, had to point out in his newsletter to constituents that it was a scam . Although Snopes.com doesn't have a NESARA page, other sites about urban legends do  . Journalist John Gorenfeld (who has previously been published on wired.com and salon.com) recently put an article on his webpage about NESARA called "The Clinton Cargo Cult". . I believe this addresses your criticism of unverifiability (discuss). - 
* Actually I think the wikipedia proposed for deletion policy  makes clear that this article cannot be a candidate for being proposed for deletion, "articles that have been previously undeleted or discussed on AfD are clearly contested and are not candidates for ." so I'll just remove it. - 
:Agree the potential scam nature of it and the print attention alone make it worthy of attention.  For that reason am I wrong in thinking the notability tag should be pulled so somebody doesn't try to restart the delete process all over again?  69.144.93.138 (talk) 11:41, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion concern 

message: I removed the following verbiage:
::The Constitution also states that bills must be signed within ten business days of passage by Congress, or they automatically become law if Congress is currently in session.  According to this, it would not be possible for Clinton to sign the law seven months later.
Under Article 1, section 7 of the U.S. Constitution, the passage of a bill by Congress does not start the running of the ten day period during which the President generally must sign a bill, etc.
Instead, the ten day period (actually, it's ten days excluding Sundays) begins running when the bill is presented to the President. This is traditionally done by physically delivering the signed copy of the bill (generally signed by the Speaker of the House and the Vice President of the United States, or by other congressional officials duly appointed for that purpose) to a designated employee of the White House or the Executive Office of the President. The date of presentment under Article I, section 7 is the date on which the ten day period begins to run. This has nothing to do with the date of passage.
I suspect (without doing a formal study of the matter) that Acts passed by Congress are generally presented to the President within a couple of weeks of passage, so the basic critique is still valid. You usually wouldn't have a Act passed by Congress with the Congress then sitting on it for months and months without presenting it to the President for signature. I'm not saying it's never happened, though.
Of course, the NESARA conspiracy theory itself is nonsense, and is based in part on misconceptions about how our political and legal systems work. Don't get me started. Yours, Famspear 20:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect verbiage removed

message: In the nominated for deletion discussion, some people thought the facts in the article were not supported by reliable sources. I think they are, it's just a lot of reading required to find it, so I put the template on. I'm going to go through and try to change the wording of the article to make it more obvious, i.e., using phrases like "according to the Tacoma Tribune". If anyone sees a particular fact you think isn't sourced anywhere, please put a citation needed tag. - Sednar 08:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the sourcing is more then adequate now - in fact the sources could probably use a little pruning to reduce redundancy but I'd prefer someone else do that. - Sednar 07:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Apparently there is a book about NESARA but it's in Japanese, if anyone who can translate is interested in updating the article with information about this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sednar (talk • contribs) 07:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anyone speak Japanese? 

message: I've done some cleanup and summarizing in the first intro paragraph. I think that was the messiest portion. Does anyone see anything else, or can the cleanup template be removed? -
It can be removed. I will remove it. inigmatus 18:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: This site fails WP:SPS as it is a personal website for Luis Prada (as show by the public registration records). It consequently fails WP:RS and should not be used as a source.—Ash (talk) 06:27, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:SPS isn't relevant here, because the cited Website doesn't discuss the thing we're pointing to, it is the thing we're pointing to. Waitak (talk) 15:49, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The entire site is a personal site for Luis Prada, the requirements of WP:RS have to be met and Luis Prada is not an established expert and the text is not about Luis Prada. I would have thought that this means that the site fails to meet Wikipedia:RS#Self-published_sources as I cannot see any way of confirming that the text quoted is an accurate reproduction of the original text. The general policy of WP:PROVEIT applies.—Ash (talk) 19:16, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using luisprada.com as a source 

message: I don't have time to fully check right now, but much of this appears to be sourced only to Goodwin's site. Most of that info needs to come out (we aren't here to simply replicate what Goodwin said on her site); I'm not sure how much of this left is actually verified by independent sources.  Thus, I've tagged it as possibly being non-notable; I'll investigate more later. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:00, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only that, but the site appears to be down.  I can't fathom how any of this is considered reliable, third party sourcing.  This seems like a crackpot pushing a fringe that the mainstream hasn't even noticed.  Removing the section now, revert if this discussion can go somewhere. Noformation Talk 19:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There are references to actual newspaper articles imbedded in the nonsense; I am restoring the prior version for now, as I feel you were over-bold in addressing the problems. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:48, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: All of the references go to Goodwin's site aside from the couple dead newspaper links (even the wayback versions don't seem to exist), and her domain is expired.  But if you feel that should stay then by all means.  Have any suggestions on improvement?  I'm not sure that any of that conspiracy stuff is relevant as it certainly doesn't have significant third party coverage. Even the most fringy stuff occasionally appears in a single article for some sensation story and that's what this appears to be to me. Noformation Talk 19:52, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Difficult to say.  I was against inclusion, initially, but most people who have any idea what NESARA might be refer to Goodwin's "theory", not to Barnard's.  Can we include quatloos.com's commentary on the Goodwin's NESARA?  It's a blog (not the forum, the site — the forum just makes fun of it), but it's by an expert on kooks — primarily on tax protesters and sovereign citizens, but many kooks get "air time" (what's the new word for that on web sites?)  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 02:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Perhaps http://www.quatloos.com/NESARA.htm ; it's not a blog entry, it's actually written by the owner of the site.  Is he an expert?  Probably on the real NESARA, but perhaps not on the fake one.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 03:28, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the quatloos guy is an expert on tax scams, which is what the fake NESARA has turned into; as a former Revenue employee, I consider his site a reliable source on these odd fringe ideas (like the "gold fringe flag" theory), but others may disagree as to whether appearing in quatloos constitutes sufficient independent coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:04, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability and primary 

message: In end 2011 and beginning 2012 a group of people had publically claimed to be in posession of US bonds dated 1934 with an overall value of some $6.000.000.000.000 (6 trillion USD, at least thats what was found out for now). This group claimed to be in a judical fight on US grounds for realizing these economically important sum in form of a take over of the FED, all major participants in the US banking system and further the leadership of the United States of America. They claimed the want to take over the whole country and establish the NESARA act immedeately afterwards. Noticeable parts of that group were now arrested in Italy by the local police and further their bonds were found and confiscated in a smaller set (3?) of closed cans (or sort of other containments) in a bank safe in Switzerland by their local authorities. It is said that all those bonds are faked and thus all the groups activity was fraud. The assumption of some observers is that those bounds were (like in former cases) intended to get sold to some third world countries, supposed they would less intensively check those papers for sanity, or maybe in money laundry (drugs, modern slavery, ...) where the trader could not risk to contact any official checkers as their business source is of illegal nature.
My primary source:
* http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/0,1518,816056,00.html
Other articles dealing with the topic of this and similar cases (not that i trust them or recommend them in any way as a good source):
* http://www.divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1023-financial-tyranny
* http://www.zerohedge.com/news/why-were-trillions-fake-bonds-held-chicago-fed-crates
Webpages of that group advertising the base scenario:
* <none give by me - search it yourselves>
--Alexander.stohr (talk) 12:17, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting.  What does it have to do with (either) NESARA?  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 16:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Fraud Goes On 

message: Drake, Keenan et al are doing some interesting work we should research.
Perhaps someone can add the information?
Link http://www.pathwaytoascension.com/nesarahistory.html
91.88.209.202 (talk) 17:53, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting?  Perhaps.  Factual?  No.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 18:41, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: HISTORY OF NESARA

message: One article that covers the factual details surrounding Barnard's proposed reforms along with an outline of said reforms.
Separate article for the strange menagerie of characters who hijacked the name of the proposed reforms for their own purposes, which, intentionally or not, discredited the original ideas by association.
:The problem is that Barnard's proposed reforms would not meet Wikipedia's notability requirements, were it not for the "strange menagerie of characters".  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 18:08, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should this article be split? 

message: NESARA is real and was passed in secret in 2000. It was immediately  put under a gag order to prevent it's announ cement. It is a  conspiracy at the highest levels.   Aquariusrisingnow (talk) 15:24, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That's pretty funny. Famspear (talk) 22:19, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll have a pint of whatever Aquaman ^ up there was drinking! 50.111.45.222 (talk) 02:41, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia controlled by Government 

message: The entire presentation of this subject is fallacious. The subject is listed as NESARA, therefore the page should describe the subject NESARA, it's origins, history and those involved in it's inception. THAT IS ALL! Instead this page has become a wide ranging dumping ground of poorly researched and questionable statements relating to events and people relating to NESARA. Through extremely poor curation it has mixed in many questionable aspects so as to conflate, divert and discredit the original subject to that of a conspiracy theory hatchery. It's actually quite disgraceful that Wikipedia allows what appears to me to be a concerted and co-ordinated effort to bury this subject under a mountain of rubbish.
SOLUTION:
Put all the conspiracy rubbish in a new subject DESARA CONSPIRACY
By all means allow the rest of the poorly researched material a place under it's own subject, namely DESARA CONSPIRACY. But for the love of truth just tell the story of Desara without the CIA disinfo rubbish on top. I mean the truth always comes out. Count yourself either on the side of truth, or the side of those hiding it... 202.159.145.33 (talk) 18:28, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:57, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 13 December 2017 

message: the link provided in the "External links and references" section no longer leads to anything even remotely related to this topic. the domain now belongs to an Australian based education resource organization of some kind, its actually rather vague, however it is very obvious that it has nothing at all to do with this fantastical conspiracy. https://www.nesara.org/
Thedeanius (talk) 23:56, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 14:39, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2020 

message: This quoted text is misleading from a knowledgeable persons insights:
"According to David Icke, Saint Germain, an Ascended Master borrowed from the I AM Movement and the Church Universal and Triumphant, along with benevolent aliens from the Galactic Federation, are also frequently mentioned (most prominently by Nidle) as working towards the NESARA announcement."
Saint Germain, Hatonn, Pallas Athene and Jesus Christ are all Ascended Masters, I will show proof here, according to a well defined resource called "The Gnosis And The Law" by Tellis Papastavro, on the following pages (2nd Printing):
1) Page 203, a pragmatic list of Ascended Masters
2) Page 258, listing retreats and leadership
3) Page 150, documenting the scope and body of the "Karmic Board"
I'm not sure how it got confused, but there is more than that.  May I suggest a new wording and provide references?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:6500:85:9DC4:880F:EDFF:50F2 (talk) 21:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to suggest wording and references here. I've removed that sentence for now because it is not supported by the Icke source. Schazjmd (talk) 22:30, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Borrowed" is canoically incorrect 

message: I ended up here because I was seeing #NESARA on a certain segment of Twitter and had no idea what it was about. It seems at least some Trump supporters, or Q-Anon-ers, have adopted this hashtag as part of their idea that Trump is going to stay in power. I don't know enough about it to add to the article, but perhaps others do.11 Arlington (talk) 18:35, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Donald Trump and QAnon

message: She has endorsed these ideas and claimed that, as “Queen of the World”, she will be the one to actually enact the policies.  2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:7094 (talk) 00:57, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Romana Didulo]] 

message: Total layman so I don't trust myself enough to edit, but this bill is listed as introduced on Congress' website, which seemingly contradicts the opening paragraph. Picnicsandstars (talk) 03:56, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Picnicsandstars, that bill is not the subject of this article, despite the similar (but not exactly the same) title. Schazjmd (talk) 14:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, thank you! I saw that some of the relevant dates were 9/11-adjacent and assumed that might have been fodder for the conspiracy theory. Weird coincidence! Picnicsandstars (talk) 16:59, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction to Congress