Talk:Military of the European Union

message: You really should remove the Ukraine from this list, for Putin will never let this happen (and EU ministers know this, that's why they've started up talk about not "overstretching" the EU). Turkey will be in the EU before Ukraine will be. The only nations on this table should be ACTUAL EU nations. Let the fantasies turn into realities before claiming them as facts.68.164.4.102 (talk) 22:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ukraine on the Military Forces Table

message: Is "Eurofor" also a member of EU military group ?
Siyac 83.87.19.95 18:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, worked it out - done. 195.137.96.79 06:01, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: These figures are most certainly wrong. The number of ACTIVE troops for Switzerland is low. The number of reservists very high. So the figure of Active Troops per 1000 people show be lower - about 1.699 per 1000 (13000 per 7million) not the 47.90 given. I havent changed it. They should all be corrected not just this one.--129.169.154.81 (talk) 10:17, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Active Troops per 1000 citizens 

message: Since most member states use euros (or, like Denmark and Sweden, keep in step with euros),surely it makes more sense for the table to be given in EUR rather than USD.  It seems crazy to me to have to revise the values at regular intervals to compensate for the collapse of the dollar, especially as it makes it look as there has been an increase in military spending. --Red King (talk) 23:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Two year wait for a reply haha, I agree also though as it happens. G. R. Allison (talk) 19:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defence budgets in euros? (!) 

message: I've added military equipment such as tanks and aircraft to the table for more detail. There are few sources about the member states' navies, so I've skipped that section, although you can feel free to contribute if you find the proper sources. -  Tourbillon A ? 17:31, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Equipment 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "Slovakia" :
** 
** 
DumZiBoT (talk) 19:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: Someone already working on these articles might find this useful if they haven't already seen it: The ABC of EU peacekeeping abroad.- J.Logan`t: 16:46, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link 

message: Why have the number of warships (esp. aircraft carriers) been ignored on the table listing military capabilities, when these special vessels are the principal means for projecting power over long distances? Could someone add this category?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.204.144 (talk) 04:57, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely agree with that -130.208.165.5 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 01:54, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have started work on an Aircraft Carrier section.G. R. Allison (talk) 17:54, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warships 

message: I added the EFTA member Iceland to the strength list on the page. Kinda weird to miss that country since EU has been very keen to make Iceland join during the last few months. - 130.208.165.5 (talk) 01:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, until Iceland is actually, formally IN the EU, it should not be on this list, for it still may not join.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.164.4.102 (talk) 22:34, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iceland 

message: Now the Italian Defence have only 190.000 soldiers  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.61.81.83 (talk) 14:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italy 

message: Can anyone help me here, I have just removed the figure for Turkish combat aircraft, it was 900. I cannot find any source backing this and I can't find anything even supporting this. Does anyone know the figure? G. R. Allison (talk) 19:51, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkish combat aircraft 

message: Hello, does the EU army use weapons and if so, is it possible to include a new table to state the weapons they use? (TheGreenwalker (talk) 01:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weapons 

message: http://www.huliq.com/8769/88851/italian-minister-proposes-european-army
Should this be mentioned or held off until it swings one way or the other?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.9.203.212 (talk) 01:17, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Italian proposition for united EU army

message: 2 links.
1 for UK active regular forces http://www.dasa.mod.uk/applications/newWeb/www/apps/publications/pubViewFile.php?content=160.11&date=2009-11-26&type=html&PublishTime=09:30:02
total 197,500 troops
however UK operates a voulnteer force which is active and numbers 41,500 and FTRS ontop of regular man power. so Link 2 http://www.dasa.mod.uk/applications/newWeb/www/index.php?page=48&thiscontent=70&pubType=1&date=2009-11-23&disText=01
then Click the "PDF 90 KB" to open the document. Its current from 1st of April 2009.
Note this gives the UK Active man power at 240,400 (aprox and rounded to nearest 100 for readability)
Also the same link gives personel numbers for the regular reserve man power at 176,500, and the Cadet forces at 153,000 (aprox numbers and rounded off)
this gives the total UK man power at around 570,000 Bro5990 (talk) 14:12, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: UK military man power

message: http://www.difesa.it/NR/rdonlyres/5EF11493-59DD-4FB7-8485-F4258D9F5891/0/Nota_Aggiuntiva_2009.pdf
Italian officials give a total of 190,000 active duty troops in the italian militaryBro5990 (talk) 13:10, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Italian military man power

message: The defence expenditure table needs deletion as it is totally wrong. Also the Strength table needs deletion as its figures are totally misleading and have become a joke. This is the result of too many edits and too much bias make belive information.
I will remove these tables after 3 days if I do not hear from any one. I will just assume no one cares. In fact the whole page needs deletion Recon.Army (talk) 10:55, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I added it to W:AFD Recon.Army (talk) 13:11, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Recon, your edit added the text "making the EU the worlds 2nd largest military force" yet you stated here "Therefore any article suggesting there is an actual military of the EU is simply wrong and misleading". Sorry for the lack of response sooner. The best course of action in my opinion and I believe the opinion of fellow project editors is that the table should be included but updated to reflect more accurate recent information. I'll get right to it. G.R. Allison (talk) 15:15, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Speedy Deletion

message: The data for Greece are mostly wrong. Some (like the 890 figure for tanks) are completely baseless, other (manpower) are simply old. The reference uses data of 1999-2000. 
Greece today has about 137,000 active personnel, about 150,000 reservists to complete active units' establishment, and provisions for about 800,000 total personnel (maximum if even the militia battalions get mobilised). 
Greece has a theoretical ~1,250 tanks in active service, namely 353 Leopard 2, 500 Leopard 1A5 and 390 M48A5. A small additional number are used in training. A couple hundred M60A3 (out of an original of 312) are in storage, with some still in service (being retired). Older tanks have been either destroyed or turned into specialised vehicles. The CFE treaty allowed Greece 1,735 tanks.
Cyprus also has more than 41 tanks. There are 5 tank battalions in Cyprus, although 2 are equipped with M48s from Greece (counted in the Greek number of tanks). There are 41 (with another 41 being delivered now) T-80U tanks, and 113 AMX-30 tanks that belong to the Cypriot government. Active personnel is also probably slightly more, about 11,000-12,000 men.--Xristar (talk) 15:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The total is for Greek equipment, not Greek and Cypriot. I don't see the problem here... get reliable sources for that and it can be changed. G.R. Allison (talk) 16:33, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greece 

message: I noticed that the number of combat aircraft is measured differently for different countries. For some it includes pretty much all aircraft used by the military (from jet planes to transport helicopters), while for others it includes only the number of jet fighters (not even attack helicopters or training jets).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xristar (talk • contribs) 23:36, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That is true; at its current state, the section comparing strengths is of no use because every number is counted differently. Perhaps it should be something like "active modern fighter airplanes" so that historical WW2 planes, helicopters, transports, etc are not counted. 109.246.1.175 (talk) 22:29, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combat aircraft definition 

message: This heading in the side panel should be removed. There is no such position, as the 'military', as such, is not one body.  
Certainly, one could describe the c-in-c as being the 27 member states heads of state in a metaphorical sense, but not in fact.--jrl 04:17, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Commander-in-chief" 

message: 1,8 million active soldiers in the ground forces without naval and air force personnel means that the EU are number 1 in total active troops. China has something like 1,7 million groundtroops.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.210.22 (talk) 09:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number 1 

message: There is no EU military!, plus, the sources used for manpower are outdated and inaccurate. As of 2011, there are only the Common Security and Defence Policy, European Defence Initiative, Synchronised Armed Forces Europe, and the European Rapid Reaction Force. This article should be removed and is ignorant toward the EU member states sovereign military forces. 194.46.174.44 (talk) 11:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree - I do wonder why this article exists. Perhaps for those who wish there were an EU military? But this is meant to be an encyclopaedia not a wish list for European federalists. David (talk) 15:43, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

text: I have read those treaties - I did that whilst studying law. As for "anti EU"... how is it "anti EU" to point out the FACT that it doesn't have a military? David (talk) 12:11, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Mainly, EU is an economic and political entity but with elements a military alliance. The beginnings joint forces (for example :EU Battlegroups), peacekeeping missions with its own army (for example :European Union Force) etc. Subtropical-man talk(en-2) 20:02, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: There is no EU military

message: In the European military expenditure section I find the following sentence: second only to the €392 ($533.8) billion military expenditure of the United States. I can't find a source stating the US spending to be '$533.8'. In the nearest reference (currently [12]) it states the US spent '$689 billion' in 2010. Should this be corrected (together with the weirdly inserted chart)? AgamemnonZ (talk) 15:07, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect expenditure figures 

message: This country has 113 F16 and not only 86 as written.Around 30 are in reserve.All datas are dated for all EU members.Vandalic act is also not changing old  and wrong datas.Wiki is doing this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.40.94.54 (talk) 19:50, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Netherlands 

message: If deletes this article Wikipedia is anti EU.EU people will ban Wikipedia from their researches.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.40.94.54 (talk) 19:55, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow. How childish. David (talk) 12:10, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  WIKI anti EU 

message: Isn't the Invincible-class technically a carrier and not an amphibious assault ship ? I think the Naval table should be edited to 6 active carriers instead of 5, seeing that the HMS Illustrious is still in service.  94.212.59.244 (talk) 10:38, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  British Aircraft Carrier 

message: Subtropical-man, I don't understand some of the changes you've made, for example, both the UK and Germany have 100 Eurofighters in service, plus you haven't put explanations of the changes in the edit summary. Kookiethebird (talk) 21:26, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: My changes are update data in a table and based on the source: World Air Forces 2013, this is reliable and independent source. If there are other sources (reliable and current: 2012-2013), you can improve the number of Eurofighters. Subtropical-man (talk) 16:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It's quite reliable, if you read it carefully, but it says "Others which are pending purchase approval or contract signature are marked with an asterisk. This category includes current planned order totals, which may be subject to future revision." So all "F-35 orders" are actually intention to buy, not the orders. Also types such as Eurofighters used for operational conversion listed in training aircraft section are still combat capable.--SojerPL (talk) 11:36, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes by Subtropical-man

message: I don't see the referece from where the writer has picked up the information about a green water or blue water navy. Can someone give me light about it?' Thanks in advance.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.33.2.101 (talk) 13:53, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  blue / green water navy 

message: Federica Mogherini has followed Catherine Ashton .Why did somebody delete EU Coat of Arms with a vandalic act?151.40.48.207 (talk) 06:27, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  FEDERICA MOGHERINI 

message: The preamble states that "This article is about the totality of military cooperation between member states of the European Union, as well as national capabilities". In other words, it's about military matters within the EU. The article also mentions US and other forces that are in Europe, but are obviously not of Europe or the EU. Shouldn't the title therefore be "Military Within the European Union" (or something more grammatically correct), instead of the current "Military of the European Union"? EddieHugh (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Previous discussion here #EU military, which gives an explanation for the current title. In summary, the problem with narrowing the title is that it wouldnt cover the whole topic (national militaries, cooperation, etc.), and there's nothing actually wrong with the current title. "Military" is just a group of forces. Its no less correct then saying the "geography of the EU", "cities of the EU", "people of the EU", "national governments of the EU", etc.. The EU is actual place, and it contains military forces. Military of Iceland discusses NATO missions, and the history of US forces stationed there. Rob984 (talk) 03:34, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: My proposal would widen the title, not narrow it. This is necessary to reflect the current contents, which include things which are not EU. 'A of B' can indicate that 'A is a property of B', e.g. 'the price of oil', or that 'A is a part of B', as in some of the examples you gave. This difference creates the confusion that leads me and others to question if the title could be more accurate (you yourself stated that it could be). My proposal would remove the ambiguity. EddieHugh (talk) 11:24, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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