Talk:Transnistria/Archive 6

message: Unfortunately, despite my efforts to repeatedly raise this issue on the Talk page (see "Links", above), we currently have an edit war in External links. User EvilAlex has violated the three-revert rule (or 3RR)    
and this, in turn, is triggering me to do the same. 
I do not want to get into any sort of edit warring with him, while in contrast he actually likes it and enjoys it: He told all of us here, yesterday, that "[...] time of war, as I said before “Love having fun”. Just imagine how boring will be here in Wikipedia without those small wars." 
I am sorry, but this is not at all the vision that I have of this wonderful resource call Wikipedia. Edit warring is disruptive and drains time away from constructive editing.
Earlier this year (from 6 March to 11 March) we had a similar 5 day edit war over links with this very same user, EvilAlex.
 It was finally solved at the initiative of FrancisTyer.
Despite this logged record, EvilAlex he also claims that "I don’t delete Transnistrian links (even if I don’t like it)." But this is misleading, to put it mildly, as his past record shows. 
My own approach to constructive collaboration is at loggerheads with this behavior and I am not sure how to resolve this. I have posted several requests here and on his Talk page, pointing out numerous 3RR violations and requesting to refrain from reverting before issue is solved in Talk. However, he merely deleted them and accused me of vandalism for having warned him and for having made the request. See 
This is an article which we have all worked hard to put into shape. I will not agree to color this article with linkbias, one way or the other, and will continue to request that we please include links which conform to Wikipedia's guidelines for external links.  If in doubt about whether or not a link is appropriate or not, we must discuss it here first, and should follow established practice by learning the criteria that some of the other country pages apply for selecting their external links. I am absolutely not asking for any prefential treatment here, but merely ask that we can follow the guidelines and avoid link bias of any kind. I would like other editors to please give their views, too, because I can no longer reach consensus with EvilAlex. - Mauco 16:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Look Macoa I have compromised I did removed one of the Economist link.Now is your turn, compromise too. Don’t try to make pretty, innocent picture of yourself.    You only try to push your side of the story that what is all this about. Six month ego we had an argument, and you still can forget it. Don’t live in a past. I do respect all of the Wikipedian rules, but when you yourself broke and ignore them :(( I could hardly take you seriously.EvilAlex 17:40, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Mauco, don't tell about bias. You are connected with ICDISS, which, as "The Economist" showed, is a propaganda organisation for Tiraspol regime. This is why you want to remove the links from "The Economist". You claim Lucas was wrong telling that you were in a ICDISS conference in Mexico, but you recognized that you participated in one of their conference  (and it seems you are the only person in the world who can confirm the real existence of ICDISS). When Lucas discovered that no conference was in Mexico city, you came with the new variant that the conference was in Washington. Why is so important to you to take out the link from Lukas article?--MariusM 22:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So that explains everything. From the moment I brought this links Mauco started behaving very vary strange. You reputation is on the line!? It is not about Transnistria it is about Mauco's decaying reputation. EvilAlex 23:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Absolutely not, but feel free to check with Edward Lucas to clarify the extent of my involvement (and lack of same) before attempting to slander me again. The full reason was given in detail above, but neither of you two seem to have read it before you "shoot first and ask questions after." I will thus repeat it here: Let us give others a chance to decide on that. In the meantime, to follow the example of FrancisTyer who succesfully solved the last edit war with EvilAlex six months ago, I am doing the same as he did back then: Removing all links (both those which EvilAlex added, and my own, too) until this issue can be settled with a broader discussion ... well, actually, I just took at look at the page, and I see that 90%+ of my links have already been removed by EvilAlex without warning and without any prior discussion. Anyway, the last few ones can temporarily go, too, until there is consensus. Now, to repeat, we are not removing links but trying to get an edit war past us. While the links are still in the main page, they will be added, removed, re-added, and so on, until infinity. We know this, because we have been through it before with your collaborator, EvilAlex. This is his style, as a look back at the logs will show. The only way to deal with these type of disruptions is to do what FrancisTyer did, short of locking the page down again which is in no one's interest and which we should only do as a very last resort. I am attempting to solve this situation and I am using the only proven method which we know has achieved consensus in the past. Please respect that and please do not engage in an EvilAlex-style edit war, Marius. - Mauco 23:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about this approach:Just exlain why you don’t like the economist article?* Disinformation The Economist* Transdniester in Cyberspace Radio Free Europe* Covering tracks The EconomistEvilAlex 23:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I shall be very glad to have this discussion with any serious editor, but not with a professed lover of edit wars ... The only way to deal with EvilAlex's disruptions in the past was for FrancisTyers to do what I am now doing. As regards the work by Lucas in The Economist and elsewhere, I have collaborated him on some of his research and I like his writing a lot. I am big fan of his and will continue to help him in the future. - Mauco 23:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I fully agree with you. This is a very relevant link and it should be added. However: It does not solve the other problems. If you want to get this edit warring behind us, then the most constructive thing you can do first is to undo your 22:43, 24 September 2006 edit. Please do this now. I did not do this change to vandalize but for a very real reason, copying the exact same action of FrancisTyers of 11 March of this year. This will clean the link section and bring us to a situation where we can discuss, as adults, all links and not just the ones which you or EvilAlex want to see included. I have given my reasons above and we have a precedent based on past history with EvilAlex which showed that this was the only way to get his disruptions sorted out. If you persist in helping him in that, then we can only reach the conclusion that you have arrived here to disrupt as well and not to help reach consensus or to add something good to the article. Meanwhile, rest assured that you have my vote and my full support for the conflict.md link. - Mauco 00:45, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit warring in external links 

message: Are there any official figures or at least some third-party estimates on the imports and exports of Transnistria? If there are, we should include them in the article. bogdan 13:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can find the official figures but I already discussed this a couple of months back with TSO1D and we both agreed that we can not trust them. There is a lot of ruckus with the "blockade" thing, so exports and figures of "lost export earnings" are hyped in order to make a political point. If we ourselves don't believe that the numbers are true, why should we include them? Someone less informed will just use the article for his or her own research and will take us at our word. Not good. - Mauco 19:26, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imports and exports 

message: It seems that all those pro-Transnistria blogs and sites have false information on who-is and all were created very recently. Could it be Transnistrian governmental astroturfing? 
TRANSNIESTRIA IS ONLY AN INTERNET ZONE FOR A SHORT WHILE, THIS MAY EXPLAIN THIS, the preceding unsigned text was added by User:MarkStreet, who claim is the editor of "Tiraspol Times"
For example, transdniestria.info (created 14 August 2006):
:Registrant Organization: Dublin Inc
:Registrant City: dublin
:Registrant State/Province: ireland
:Registrant Postal Code: 343w
:Registrant Country:IE 
:Registrant Phone:+1.12345679865
The owner is company Dublin Inc from Dublin, Ireland, with a non-existing postal code (note that 3, 4 and w are one next to the other on the keyboard) and a very unlikely phone with the sequence 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-9-8 :-) 
WELL THAT'S SIMPLE, I CHECKED THIS ,THERE ARE NO POST CODES IN DUBLIN AND TO REGISTER THE DOMAIN  MANE  REGISTRANT FOR IRISH COMAPNIES THEY HAVE TO ENTER SOME SORT OF CODE IN ORDER TO PROCESS ONLINE. the preceding unsigned text was added by User:MarkStreet, who claim is the editor of "Tiraspol Times"
:: Fair enough. I just did the fact checking on this, and it is true. There is no zip numbers (postal codes) in Dublin, Ireland. - Mauco 22:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I just did a random sample of fifteen domain names. What he says here is partly true, partly false. But it is certainly not unusual. I don't know where we are even going with this, but if someone is trying to prove who is or who is not a KGB agent, this is getting a bit silly... - Mauco 22:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

text: It actually doesn't matter, colleague, except to someone who can not pursue a logical argument based on the facts. You see, when you want to "win" a debate, you can either do so on the merit of your case - - but if you don't have a case, you are forced to instead discredit and delegitimize the other side. I have done extensive fact checking on information from Tiraspol Times (see Archive 5 for the expose and sources). And I have found the news source to be 100% accurate. It is biased in favor of Transnistria, of course, but it is still truthful and factually correct. Maybe the reason that it is biased to Transnistria is why these haters here don't want us to use it as a source. But as a source, it stands up to scrutiny. I know, and anyone who says otherwise must explain why, based on actual errors in any of the articles, instead of just pointing to things like IPs and domain registrations. - Mauco 22:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You can't really compare Trannsistria to North Korea. But it was still funny. - Mauco 16:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Update: my suspicion is confirmed: the sites: icdiss.org, pridnestrovie.net, tiraspoltimes.com, visitpmr.com have the same IP address (69.61.9.50) and are hosted on the same server. bogdan 15:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good work! I have a journalist friend who I will send this info too. It could be that they just used the same web design company (because there are more than 800 other sites with the same IP), but I know that he will still be interested in this. Thanks. - Mauco 16:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bogdan, I thought the same thing. North Korea, Cuba, Nagorno-Karabakh, Iran, any country that is knocked down on by the "West" could all do with such splendid slick propaganda. Seriously. I really want to visit this place to see what its about. - FrancisTyers · 17:15, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It may not be astroturfing, but black propaganda.--Tekleni 11:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Astroturfing]] 

message: This is what "Tiraspol Times" is saying: 
It seems HCHRM report is not any more  "exceptional claims".--MariusM 14:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this the same Tiraspol Times which is referenced above as "Kremlen propoganda" and which you yourself wants deleted? Interesting... Thanks for the link. But actually, to be intellectually honest, you should point out that neither Tiraspol Times nor OSCE makes any reference whatsoever to HCHRM or to any of their four or five quite exceptional claims. OSCE's beef seems to be with some other issues; mostly the formulation of the question and what OSCE sees as a restrictive media climate (a criticism which they have applied in equal measure to Moldova). - Mauco 14:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, no direct refference was made at HCHRM by OSCE. HCHRM and OSCE are independent organisations, they arrive separately at the same conclusion. Is not me who labeled Tiraspol Times as Kremlin propaganda, but yes, I voted for this link deletion.--MariusM 14:28, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Apparently my request for intellectual honesty fell on deaf ears. To say that "they arrived at the same conclusion" is an overbroad statement which is a bit true and a bit false, but more false than true. I have responded in detail on the proper talk page (the talk page for the refendum), so as to not fork the discussion. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." - Mauco 14:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: OSCE backs "exceptional claims" of fraud in the referendum

message: I picked up on something which the staff writer says in his letter to Illythr: "Our newspaper is similar in many ways to SOUTHEAST EUROPEAN TIMES, at http://www.SETimes.com/,  which has an online-only presence, and whose veracity is seldom questioned. Any mention of Tiraspol Times should make comparisons with Southeast European Times." I could find very little info on Wikipedia, just this page Southeast European Times although some other Wikipedia articles have links (external links) to various pages and articles on the www.setimes.com website.
What I couldn't find on the site of the Southeast European Times was information on whether or not they have a print edition or if they publish strictly online. I could also not find any valid contact information. No phone number, no address, not any names of the editors, etc. In fact, Tiraspol Times is positively enlightening in comparison. Comments? - Mauco 20:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I spent some time today on the setimes.com site. It is a propaganda effort and it appears to be primarily pushing Kosovo's independence right now. In their articles, they call Kosovo a country, just like that. However, Kosovo is no more a country than Transnistria is. Southeast European Times do not qualify it or explain anything, they just state that it is a country. In comparison, the articles on Tiraspol Times use the prefix "unrecognized". They call Transnistria an unrecognized country, usually once per article. Both of them refer to the leader as the president. They are very similar in their style. However, when I compare the two, I have to admit that Tiraspol Times is more honest and Southeast European Times is more distinctly misleading. It is done in a subtle way, and both of them are good at what they do, so it takes a sharp eye to spot it. - Mauco 22:09, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Southeast European Times]] 

message: A user who has recently manifested interest in this article has been User:Jonathanpops. His first edit to wikipedia was the creation of the article Wiles (since then, the article has turned into a disambg article). That version of the article was, as you can see, about a family living in York, North Yorkshire, UK: "The Wiles Family and Paul Wiles live in York, North Yorkshire, UK. Paul Wiles attended St. Oswald's Primary Sch....". This was on 9 December 2005. He didn`t edit anything until 3 February 2006, when he re-inserted the link to www.transdniestria.com. While there is nothing wrong with that, a whois search for transdniestria.com reveals that the registrant is the webdesing and search optimization firm "York Interweb" located at 15 Wenlock Terrace (the same) York, North Yorkshire YO10 4DU GB. The registrant was a certain Nikola Makarovskyi, a sovietic... oupps, a British citizen with an interesting name, also located at 15 Wenlock Terrace York, North Yorkshire. A look at the site of "York Interweb" shows that Transnistria.com is their project indeed, and that the contact info for "York Interweb" is the same North Yorkshire adress. In March, Jonathanpops again took personal interest over the fate of www.transdniestria.com  , . In August, he again added to external links to various articles:  and . A look on those links shows that the webdesign was done by the same "York Interweb", and a whois search confirms this: both  and  had been registered from the same adress in 15 Wenlock Terrace, York, North Yorkshire, by a certain Jonathan Malory. Recently, Jonathanpops had been involved in the Talk:Transnistria#External_links voting, where he had naturally voted against the removal of the site in question (www.transdniestria.com). Other users also expressed concern over Jonathanpops, like this one, for the same suspicion over his link to "York Interweb". The connection between Mauco and this Jonathan is suspicious. Maybe because they are both living in the U.K, Mauco doesn`t forget to add links to www.transdniestria.com wherever he passes. On the DMOZ page, the caretaker of the Moldova/Regions page is Mauco , and the didn`t forget to add the link, along side of, of course, Pridnestrovie.net, Tiraspol Times, etc... Transdniestria.com appears often in articles dealing with the Trns propaganda  . To be noted in this case is that user William Mauco is a versed sockpuppeter (e.g.: User:Jamason, user WTP, , , etc). By the way, since I mentioned , take a look at the comment on the bottom of the article (from the same www.transdniestria.com site), from somone called "Pridnestrovie.net". Looks familiar??? :D  Look again: 1, 2, 3 :))). So far Maucov has ignored two   of my interventions, so I adress this to other users, who are not infantile and naive (like TSO1D...). I think that this Jonathanpops is either a sock of Mauco, or that betweent the two there`s somekind of bussines deal. BTW, maybe you don`t want your name associated with me Bogdan, but I just had to say that I apreciate your involvement in the Transndniester articles content and links issues. Take care you all! Recently I`ve found out that I`m Paranoid schizophrenic, so now I`m going to have a break, as to take my pills :|  Greier 19:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not valid in your case, you must have a mutation or something. Weren't you supposed to be doing your PhD or something or this is a short trolling break? bogdan 20:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A small addition to your piece of art:  Maco will try to push transdniestria.com once again look here:  “...A lot of people have opinions on this, take a look at transdniestria.com for instance...” EvilAlex 20:22, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Greier, that post is worrying, seriously. :-) This whole thing could be explained without a conspiracy theory: Jonathan could be just a friend/roommate of a guy named "Nikola" who is from Transnistria. But of course, that doesn't rule out that Mauco is this guy Nikola, of which we know nothing. :-) bogdan 20:16, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't know Nikola Makarovskyi (the webmaster of transdniestria.com) but my impression is that he is from Transnistria and that he is affiliated with the SHERIFF group. I have this information from Edward Lucas, a journalist with the Economist, who could not establish this affirmatively but voiced it as an opinion of his in a private email to me. I don't know Jonathanpops either and he is certainly not my sockpuppet. In the past, I have supported the inclusion of http://www.transdniesteria.com as a link and explained why I think it should be included. However, recently I think that the quality of the site leaves something to be desired, and that there are now better news sites for Transnistria (Conflict.md to show the Moldovan bias, and TiraspolTimes.com to show the Transnistrian bias). I have therefore voted for inclusion of BOTH of these two, and I merely suggested a "week keep" for Transdniestria.com. How this can be called "sockpuppetry, spamming and propaganda" is 100% beyond my comprehension, seeing how anyone else here is free to vote as they want. Can anyone who is not a paranoid schizo please enlighten me? - Mauco 20:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Jonathanpops, I am glad that you are online today. Hopefully someone will be able to do a CheckUser on both you and me, so they can see that we don't have sockpuppets. I detest sockpuppetry. Unfortunately, this means that I am often in a minority all by my lonesome on a single topic because some of our less ethically balanced editors feel differently than I do and don't shy away from creating several user names (see some of the until-now-unknown editors who votes in the link section, above, for instance). Anyway, you should be allowed to post here and to have your own opinion, Jonathanpops, and not be accused of being anyone's sockpuppet.  - Mauco 21:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Interesting rant. Nuff said. :-) - Mauco 16:08, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I hate to agree with you, Jonathanpops (now we will get told that we are meatpuppets by the hatesquad). Someone here obviously needs to grow up, get a life, or both... - Mauco 16:08, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carefull to sockpuppetry, spaming and propaganda 

message: The dispute over who is a KGB agent and who's not is getting silly. I say that we focus on writing the article instead of arguing without a scope.
Now, about the sources, I say that we should stick to reputable sources' or official information. This is not the way: 
:The Wall Street Journal called in 2005 Transnistria "a major haven for smuggling weapons and women", but Tiraspol Times <<a local website set up two months ago and possibly affiliated with the Transnistrian government>> says that's not true.''
References
* Moldova's Ruling Communists Are Leading a Swing to the West, Marc Champion in London and Alan Cullison in Moscow. Wall Street Journal. (Eastern edition). New York, N.Y.: Mar 4, 2005. pg. A.13
* http://www.tiraspoltimes.com
If we need to put the opinion of the Transnistrian government, let's use their sources, not via some dubious third-party site, ok? bogdan 18:13, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: http://www.Pridnestrovie.net and http://www.VisitPMR.com are government sites. There are several independent third-party confirmations on this, in addition to the official "about us" pages.,  - And what is wrong with simply writing to the government and asking? I haven't done that, but I know at one other editor of this page who - when he is in doubt - simply writes and asks, instead of having longwinded discussions on a Talk page about what is, what isn't, what could be, and what might. Ask, and see what they say. - Mauco 23:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Tiraspol Times apppears to have no government affiliation, but again, we can always ask. The only "tie" is that they use the same webdesigner and webserver, which is no surprise because there are probably only two or three good companies in Transnistria for that sort of work. It is a small place. Parliament's website is designed and hosted by the same company that did Sheriff's site, and websites for half of the companies in the country. What does that "prove"? - Mauco 23:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  KGB agents 

message: Sheriff is a company with many stockholders - how do you know that Smirnov's son is not between them?--MariusM 09:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The burden of evidence lies with the editors who have made an edit or wish an edit to remain, so if you want to say that Smirnov owns Sheriff, you just have to prove it. However, having said that, there is currently a trend to still try to smuggle misleading or just plain wrong information into the article by not claiming direct responsibility but by attributing them to a third party source. Example: If you say that Sheriff is owned by the Smirnov family, then someone will ask for verification and the claim (which is wrong) can therefore not be included. But if you say "BBC says that Sheriff is owned by Smirnov", then technically the claim is correct and could stay, which means that you succeeded in falsifying the article. You yourself, MariusM, have used this technique to great success and I will be happy to cite half a dozen examples, with logs, if you deny this. But since you ask about Sheriff, I will stay on topic. The most important principle is to remember that we have no obligation to include information that is factually wrong not even as a minority view or third party quote. This is called perpetuating a falsehood and this is contrary to the most basic Wikipedia policy. If BBC said it, or someone else said it, they now stand corrected by us. More often than not, the collaborative power of the Internet is better at correcting details and fact finding than a journalist working for the established mass media (as even such venerable sources as The New York Times have found out many times, to its chagrin). In the case of Sheriff, this was dealt with before you came here. I believe it is in Archive 4. One of the sources was Moldpres, the stateowned news agency of Moldova. There is also background information in the Talk page for Sheriff, regarding this same subject. - Mauco 14:22, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sheriff not owned by Smirnov 

message: In order to shorten the history section, I propose removing the following sentence:
"In May 2005, the Ukrainian government of Viktor Yushchenko proposed a seven-point plan for the settlement of the conflict between Transnistria and Moldova."
It will not disappear from Wikipedia because it is already present in History of Transnistria and will stay there. However, in the summary (on the main Transnistria article) we should only include important key points and the Yushchenko plan has turned out to not be one of those. When it was put forward, everyone had great hopes, but now it just fiddled out and has been relegated to a not-very-important part of history. I am posting this proposal here, in case anyone has any objections to this edit, so we can get a chance to discuss it first. - Mauco 23:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is important. Some state proposing a "X-point plan" concerning your country means they feel quite strong on the issue to intervene in the politics of your contry. Dpotop 09:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Minor correction: Not my country. But thanks, and your comment is valued. Anyone else? - Mauco 12:24, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section, proposed sentence for deletion 

message: The flag shown at the Transnistria page is not the current one, just have a look at Transnistria's homepage:
http://www.president-pmr.org/english/index_e.htm
:See Flag of Transnistria. `'mikka (t)
::In fact, that is the correct flag (see the talk page of that article). The discrepancy between descriptions meant for a foreign, English-speaking, audience and the flag's specs as provided for in PMR law are, I have no doubt, intentional. (The legislation--sorry, only in Russian--is available here: http://president-pmr.org/symbol/flag.htm) Jamason 01:19, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Alan, assume good faith. ;-) 99% of all the flags they use don't have the embarrassing "hot symbols" and the flag law is OK with that except for official use. But what really surprised me, though, was that on this particular 2nd of September you didn't have a single hammer and sickle in sight on any of the photos, and I am not just talking about the photos that were released to the West, but everywhere, even private snapshots. In fact, even the huge flag that the folklore dancers carried and then hoisted, it also didn't have it. No red star either. All the official flags, used by state that day, were the civil flags. I thought: "Hmm, these guys surely need to change their flag law now". However: this changed two weeks later, on referendum Sunday. CEC provided flags for all polling stations and some of them (not all) had the hammer and sickly symbols on them... - Mauco 04:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag 

message: This part needs an update from someone. I looked at the main article Ukraine-Transnistria border customs conflict and it has no news since March. It is now October. I can not update it: I do not know enough about this subject. I have started to do research but it is complex. (+don't speak Russian). I am trying to learn so I can edit here in the future. But not yet ready now. Can someone else update this part? - Pernambuco 13:13, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Still deadlocked. The latest is a series of tries by Transnistria in various Ukrainian courts of law (first Odessa, then Kiev) to overturn the measures. They have all been turned down. - Mauco 16:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ukraine-Transnistria border customs conflict 

message: That is POV. A Moldovan policeman was caught having drugs. Claiming that the whole institution of Moldovan Police is involved is a bit presumptuous, isn't it? bogdan 22:18, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is. The proof was his police ID and his arrest, but there is no indication in the sources that he acted on behalf of the Moldovan government. - Mauco 04:44, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "given proof of involvement by Moldovan police" 

message: Wikipedia is not supposed to write the truth. We're just writing just major opinions on what the truth might be. That's the policy. If there were a consensus on what the truth is, then we might write it as if it were the truth. When the BBC, Washington Post and the like are saying something on an issue, you can't just discard because "western press are biased", "they know nothing on this", the POV they present is a notable POV and should be mentioned. bogdan 08:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Come on now, these are not the arguments. However, there is such a thing as notability, too, and this applies even more so to cases of presenting fallacies. We are dealing with very specific things here, both of which have been discussed in the past (see archives) and discarded for valid Wikipedia reasons. If we are re-including these two fallacies now - again, after already having been over this ground - we are merely going in circles. In the specific case of Sheriff, there is already a separate page Sheriff (company). This would be the appropriate place to introduce additional context, to avoid text forking. The summary included here (in main Transnistria) should then include a synopsis of the most the pertinent points from that article. You know that this is how it is done. I will assume good faith, as always, so let us hammer this out on this particular Talk page and decide on how we can present, to the readers, an accurate view of the situation. The BBC's statement is not a "point of view" but just a plain journalistic error and we are making an even bigger error if we give it the same time and space as what is now, later, known to be factually true. This does not make Wikipedia better as a resource for its readers; it makes it worse. - Mauco 12:54, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Moreover, it is incorrect to describe BBC's claim that Smirnov owns Sheriff as the "point of view" (POV) of the BBC. This is not BBC's opinion, but just a journalistic screwup and, as we know now, wrong. However, even if it was a "view", then recall that according to WP:NPOV,  Wikipedia still aims to present competing views in proportion to their representation among experts on the subject, or among the concerned parties. Here, the concerned parties are Moldova and Transnistria. The available evidence which superceedes that of the BBC article is from official sources on both sides, and they both agree that Sheriff is not owned by Smirnov. - Mauco 13:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let me remind you Mauco that in Sheriff article talk page we agreed that we don't know exactly who the stockholders of Sheriff are. It seems that nobody checked if somebody from Smirnov family is or was in the past stockholder at Sheriff. Until we have clear data we can not conclude that it was a journalistic screwup.--MariusM 14:03, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  This dispute has been amply covered elsewhere (and settled, as any neutral Wikipedian would probably concede after studying the content of that page). Short of changing a couple of the five pillars, I don't see what else we can do at this stage, but anyone is of course welcome to join the discussion here: Talk:Sheriff (company). Let me also remind you, MariusM, that there is such a thing as majority viewpoints, minority viewpoints and plain fallacies. The latter should not be perpetuated if we are all aiming to make Wikipedia a useful research resource rather than a vehicle for personal bias. - Mauco 14:11, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|Verifiability, not truth]] 

message: Two days ago, British journalist Shaun Walker just published a report where he points out the danger of relying on sensationalist media reports as the main source of Transnistria info. See http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2006/10/05/009.html and note that Shaun Walker has actually visited Transnistria (which is more than can be said for 95%+ of the editors of Wikipedia Transnistria-related articles). He wrote:
With my information about the places filtered through the occasional sensationalist Western media report, I turned up in both cases excitedly expecting to find the final frontier; a gangster-ridden epicenter of weapons and human smuggling; a dark and wild version of the Soviet Union. Instead, what I got in both wannabe capitals was a sleepy provincial town, with tree-lined streets and ordinary people going about their business trying to make ends meet.
His onsite research match other recent reports from organizations who have taken the trouble to go there and spend time on doing the needed research, including the British government funded Saferworld in their newly published United Nations study on weapons. - Mauco 13:05, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The two day old report was published in the Moscow Times. Those familiar with The Moscow Times know that is not considered a Putin mouthpiece. If anything, many in Russia see it as the informal voice of the US State Department. It is often a training ground for Western diplomats and high officials in Western governmental organizations. The current OSCE Ambassador to Moldova, Louis O'Neill, worked at Moscow Times before moving to the State Department. - Mauco 13:09, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure what he expected to see. Weapons smuggling and money laundering are not the kind of crimes that can be seen on the street in broad daylight. bogdan 13:49, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I concur. Mauco, the fragment you cited is pure propaganda. It contains exactly 0 information, because being a crime hub does not imply that you have to live in some Metropolis-like city with obvious bad guys patrolling the streets and shooting innocent people or creating infernal devices to destroy the world. Dpotop 17:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

text:  I agree the snippet is a little over the top nicey-nicey. Still, going by the reports one hear's of Transnistria you would expect guns and smuggling out in the open. We are often given the image that they do little in attempting to hide their actions, so it might be a little suprising to some to find a fairly ordinary-looking city with people acting like they do anywhere else. --Jonathanpops 11:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yes, but ... 

message: I submited a request for checkuser and have the confirmation  that Henco, an user who voted for external links in our article  is a sockpuppet of MarkStreet, editor of Tiraspol Times (his vote was meantime removed). It seems that MarkStreet learned in Transnistria how to falsify a vote, Transnistrian referendum was a good lesson for him.
I suspected also Gallenweekend to be a sockpuppet, as he registered at Wikipedia in 7 october and the only thing he did was to vote for "Tiraspol Times" , no other contribution at Wikipedia. This suspicion was not confirmed, however I still have doubts, as MarkStreet was aware as of 6 October about the fact that he is suspected of sockpuppetry   and could take measures to hide his sockpuppetry.
Not surprisingly, User:William Mauco was against investigation about possible sockpuppetry of MarkStreet, trying to accuse the scape goat Bonaparte for such behaviour 
"Tiraspol Times" received a narrow vote for inclusion in out article, but I doubt about its merit, as is obvious that his editor is not an onest person. After a request to confirm that he is indeed editor of "Tiraspol Times", MarkStret put a link to his page on Wikipedia at "Tiraspol Times" webpage  --MariusM 23:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting - and partly false, friend. When speaking of honesty (or "onesty", as you call it), you may want to check your log and post an apology for publicly putting words in my mouth which are not true and mischaracterize me (William Mauco). Both Khokhoi and myself immediately suspected Henco as a sockpuppet right from the start. I posted a notice on this talk page warning about all sockpuppets (and as you know, Marius, there were some on "your" side, too). Then Khokhoi, not me, was the editor who thought that this particular one - Henco - was Bonaparte's puppet. He struck the votes under that assumption. My mention of Bonni was in this context, and I did not confirm this, but merely pointed out to Khoi that it was a nonissue. You state that I was against investigation. Please show how this is true. It is not. You also state that I was accusing Bonaparte. Please show where I do so. I never did. - Mauco 13:38, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Editor of "Tiraspol Times" engaged in sockpuppetry

message: Can someone point me to some information on how exactly you decide on naming conventions. For instance, this article is under Transnistria and not Pridnestrovie. Compare that with Côte d'Ivoire, or Myanmar, or Republic of China, or Democratic Republic of the Congo. All of them have the countries' preferred name as the name of the page. I know there are instances where this isn't the case, like East Timor, and Japan, and possibly some others. In both those cases, however, the name of the page is the only that is more popularly known, and changing the name would lead to extreme confusion. I'm not sure if that's the case with this one. Anyone who has heard of the country is probably familiar with both names. Zhinz 06:31, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of us worked in detail of this earlier in the year. The most active editors on this issue were myself and a Romanian user, TSOD1. There is a history of this in the archives. Names of Transnistria reflect our findings. With regards to the priority name in use, it is not the name preferred by the government (which is "Pridnestrovie") but the most common name in English (which is "Transnistria"). We did look into the Burma/Myanmar situation in particular, as well as some of the other countries which you mention. The main reason why we did not choose Pridnestrovie over Transnistria is because of the lack of international recognition of the area's government. If it becomes recognized, we would obviously be using the Côte d'Ivoire and Myanmar examples as the article naming policy specifies in Wikipedia. - Mauco 17:14, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When we decided to use the name Transnistria, it was because we felt that that name was more popular in English than Pridnestrovie. If you check the number of Google hits for Pridnestrovie and Transnistria, you will see that the currently used version is much more frequently seen. Even the government's website http://pridnestrovie.net accepts this fact: "Although "Transnistria" is the name most commonly used to describe Pridnestrovie in English [...]." TSO1D 17:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for adding this clarification. Needless to say, I agree with TSO1D (on this matter, not necessarily on everything else, as he well knows). I can add that the naming situation is unlikely to change unless the formal status of Transnistria changes. - Mauco 17:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While looking at the Pridnestrovie article on the name, I found something interesting. The full sentence I abridged was: "Although "Transnistria" is the name most commonly used to describe Pridnestrovie in English, the name is wrong on two counts: It is not from our language, and it doesn't even describe the territory of our country accurately." What do they mean, the name is not from our language. What happened to there being three equal official languages of Transnistria, including what they call Moldovan. They say the term is Romanian, as though "Moldovan" sources hadn't also traditionally used that word during Soviet times. This isn't directly related to the original question, but I just found it comical how the authors allowed their real opinions to seep into the article (i.e. it's clear what they mean by "our language"). TSO1D 17:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  LOL. I hadn't even noticed that, and this was one of the sources which I used when we worked on the naming issue and the Names for Transnistria article back then. Of course Moldovan is one of their languages (one of three). If you read the more extreme Transnistrian views, such as some of the authors on Olvia Press, they also love to get the occasional stab in at Moldova regarding the language issue. It usually goes something like this (paraphrasing): "PMR is the only place in the world were people speak Moldovan. In Moldova, they speak Romanian. Here in PMR we have Moldovan as the official language. In Moldova, they have no official language." The latter is because Moldova simply talks about "state language" but does not name it, so no one (says Olvia) is quite sure whether it is called Moldovan or Romanian. Not sure how this is useful for editing the article, so I apologize for straying off topic. - Mauco 17:28, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: BTW, who coined this name, Transnistria? The earliest use I found is in the title of a newspaper published in Chişinău, "Tribuna Românilor Transnistrieni", in 1927. bogdan 20:40, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Bogdan, I am VERY interested in any light that you can shed on this, please. The "common wisdom", which even made it into a couple of books in English, is that it was a term which saw the light at the outset of World War II, and that it was introduced by Romania when their troops stationed themselves in Odessa. I have always been suspicious of this. Your 1927 reference, and any earlier references (if they exist), would disprove that. - Mauco 20:49, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  PS: The right place to continue this thread is not here, but Talk:Names of Transnistria to avoid content forking. - Mauco 20:51, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK. I continued the thread in there. bogdan 21:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  As have I. See you there! - Mauco 22:51, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming Convention

message: Illytr and 69.138.254.22,
thank you for your help. I was and am really sleepy, sorry for so many spelling mistakes. BTW some of them were there before me, I just did not correct everything, or my eyes did not pbserved them. good night! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dc76 (talk • contribs) 02:55, 30 October 2006.
:Hi and welcome to the Transnistra page!
:# It'd be best to place your (extensive) comments on the talk page here instead of the mainspace - this way it's easier to find and discuss them.
:# The history section is currently rather bloated, I think that further expansions to it should be done in the History of Transnistria article or even in Operation Barbarossa-related WWII ones. The section here should only contain a summary of the most important stuff from those.
:# Operation Barbarossa was started by crossing the Prut (among other places), so it certainly was an invasion.
:# Now that you mentioned it, I think that Lebed' should be included into the article as well.
:# There is no need to insert a wikilink to the same article more than once or twice. It's usually done only on the first mention. 
:Otherwise, thanks for your contribution! --Illythr 03:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have already talked to DC on his own page, and said some of the same things (plus thanking him for his contribution, of course). My only serious concern is the same as Illythr's: Much of this level of detail is better added to History of Transnistria. We need to prevent content forking, and also to maintain just a summary of the key events here on the main Transnistria page. - Mauco 03:30, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, the reason Antonescu did that is partially because his plan for Bessarabia, coincidently his diploma paper when he finished the military academy, was a failure. His plans costed thousands more lifes of his solders, not counting civilians caught in the fire and Soviet solders. The troops that did not act accoring to his plan were able to fight off Belov's kavkorpus! The troops that did follow, faced ordinary solders, and got killed by hundreds a day. Antonescu did not want his main military contribution to be a failure. He needed one more action. Then the siege of Odessa, there was no plan for it, was a blunder that must be taught in military schools. Soviets had only half of his numbers, and he managed to loose in one month more than romania did in the previous 100 years. So he needed more action again... He justified himself by comparing with his predecessors: King Caroll II, who was banned to enter Romanian again (!) when forced to abdicate and Horia Sima (second leader of the Iron Guard), who's intelligence, was not very bright, to say the least. It is a pitty Romania did not find a force to stop in July 1941 as Finland more or less did. By the same token, if Romania would, then like Finland it would have fought in June 1940, as expected. There were big problems with the Romanian political class at that time. The best people could not reach high to power and influence, and whose who reached high were idiots or more.
4. agree
5. I thought we should add everywhere we see that word. Ok, I'll know now. Of course if the article takes 10 pages, then it makes sense to add on pages 1,3,5,etc one time each Perhaps:Dc76 04:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  spellings 

message: The first thing I wondered about when I saw the map was the geography. To my high surprise not a word on it. How can you discuss politics, economy, infrastructure, ... anything about a country of this shape without discussing its geography first? Of course I looked it up in an atlas and it turns out that, as I suspected, it consists of a river valley. I will add a note in the intro, hoping someone else will pick this up and expand on that. DirkvdM 19:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, colleague original research. What you see in a map may be your mistake. Are you sure it is just river valley? No hills at all?  On the other hand, you pinpointed the problem, thanks. Geography section is missing indeed.  `'mikkanarxi 19:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes it is a good section it should stay and it is neutral. - Pernambuco 18:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geography 

message: EvilAlex, if you want to understand Mauco, you should study more dialectical materialism. What is true today, can be wrong tommorow, this is what this wonderfull phylosophy is teaching.
Let's take the case of Transnistria: Before referendum, it was necesary to acuse Moldovan government and pro-moldovan transnistrians of terrorist acts, in order to frighten the population, to keep fresh the image of enemy and to show the evilness of Moldova. Also, good reason to make some arrest of pro-Moldova activists, in order to create proper conditions for the referendum. Even here in Wikipedia, when I tried to include info about the arrests, opposition was raised with the argument: this is not intimidation of political opponents, this is a normal police investigation in a terrorist case. After the referendum, there is an other priority: obtain international recognition. In order to obtain that, a new image is needed: Transnistria is a quiet place, with a wonderfull democracy. No terrorism can take place in Transnistria, I repeat: is a QUIET place. Those are the new orders.--MariusM 15:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice rant. It gives some interesting insight into the personality of the person who wrote it. Not sure what specific edit he is proposing to the article, however...  - Mauco 15:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha-ha-ha I have noticed it too. Mauco it is true your position is changing like a wind. Before you supported Olvia you even had given me few refs too . But when we pointed something critical to your position – then you started remembering how reliable the source is. Double standards, Trolling, spinning. Like a little girl who says no but meant yes :)EvilAlex 18:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It didn't take you long to show up and post your full agreement with MariusM. I will let your own words stand in all their glory, and let anyone else draw their own conclusions. - Mauco 18:21, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mauco be trustful at list to yourself. And once again thank you for this moment of glory. EvilAlex 18:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatching you two is a free theatre :):):):):) I enjoy it, especiallt b/c I don't have to pay for it.:User:Dc76 19:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At list some one having fun here :) That is what life should be like - Fun and politics. Best regards. EvilAlex 19:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  A final touch might be unprotecting the page allowing Bonaparte to provide our little theatre with Bon and Onny, so that we can start performing for real! :-) --Illythr 23:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  Sigh. Yes, indeed. I sometimes think the same. But since you enjoy it, check out this "prime performance": His persistent effort at a Bonaparte fanclub which got reverted by until an admin finally had to lock the page, following this - Mauco 19:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a lot of talk is going on regarding Bonaparte. lets them see his userpage. Why do yu hate him so much? EvilAlex 19:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mauco, thanks for pointing to WP:LAME! I must admit, it is funnier to read the short versions than the long one on this talk. :):) I came to Wikipedia because I like reading encyclopedias, but I did not expect I would get free fun. I am glad that a Moldova related article will get featured on that page, and maybe, if you keep up the good job, in New York Times. But as I said, you must concentrate your "war" on 3-4 issues at most. Otherwise it's not funny. So, one issue is "Are certain "violent acts", such as blowing up a bus terrorism or not?". Another one, "The international community stongly believes that are or there are not illegal weapon activities in TRansnistria" Need one more, any suggestions? :):):) :Dc76 20:10, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What EvilAlex didn't understand

message: ::: Facts are facts, and all edits are fully sourced and cited as per WP:CITE. Please do not continue to vandalize or remove sourced statements from the article, as in this latest blanking by you and reversal of the work of at least two other editors on the page.. - Mauco 05:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Following the mechanics of good Wiki citation does nothing to indicate whether or not what you are citing is credible. Do not confuse that something is published with the notion that it might be true. Properly citing the British Helsinki Human Rights Group, for example, in editing the article to then denigrate as "politically motivated" the charges of arms smuggling is no less getting on a "soapbox."  —Pēters J. Vecrumba 14:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is an interesting comment, and it raises some food for thought. You will surely understand that the whole point of Oxford-historian Mark Almond's article, which was published by his British Helsinki Human Rights Group, was exactly that the accusations against Transnistria are politically motivated rather than based on fact, and that they completely lack any truthful basis in reality. Instead of looking at WHO says this, please read WHAT they say and then attempt, with an open mind, to analyze the arguments rather than the source. - Mauco 15:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I do not mean to be rude but this is a really dumb comment. The source for the User Mauco was written by a professor at Oxford University and you are comparing it to a man who says that the moon is made out of cheese. I can read, thank you, I do not need this kind of Vecrumba interpretation. Do you think we are stupid? - Pernambuco 18:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  My hyperbole was to make the point that a biased source is still a biased source. Professor or not, Mark Almond is the chairman of a blatantly POV organization. Inserting his viewpoint as fact into the article, citing him as an objective source, and then challenging the other editors to dispute is totally inappropriate. —Pēters J. Vecrumba 19:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Vecrumba made a valid comment here. I didn't knew that British Helsinki Group is not affiliated with International Helsinki Federation, one of the good things at Wikipedia is that I am learning new facts. I remember Mauco strongly opposing the inclusion in Transnistria related articles of the statements of Moldovan Helsinki Human Rights group, which is recognized by IHF. Of course, those statements are not in favour of Russian expansionism, this was the reason Mauco oppose them.--MariusM 19:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Is it really? Please do not put words in my mouth. You know better, since you were a party to that particular content dispute. You know EXACTLY what my problem was with that particular press release, and I will not allow you to misinterpret this issue. For anyone else, who is not aware of the kind of flim-flam that MariusM is trying to pull, the facts are on the record and can be seen [Talk:Transnistrian referendum, 2006 here]. Do not put words in my mouth which I have never said, MariusM. You only discredit yourself by doing that. - Mauco 23:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: British Helsinki Human Rights Group - a non reliable source?

message: EvilAlex, please let me know where in the UN report they say that there is currently low transparency in Transnistria. Their usage of the wording "low transparency" refers to the past. They currently state that there is openness and co-operation. The next time you revert this, I will have to report you for 3RR edit warring and ask that you be blocked. - Mauco 23:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  read the bloody source and dont ask stupid questions EvilAlex 23:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please be civil and do not swear at me. I read the source, which is why I insist that the usage of the word is in past tense. The report says "While the Transdnistrean authorities have a history of low transparency on SALW issues, attitudes may be changing, as evidenced by the good levels of cooperations in some areas during the research for this report." They are saying that the low transparency is HISTORIC and that this has CHANGED due to GOOD LEVELS OF COOPERATIONS. Difference is between: Before and now. - Mauco 23:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I did notice that somewhere along the way, the good levels of cooperation in SOME areas became just plain "good levels of cooperation" as if in all areas. Hope of a positive trend, as expressed, does not confer actuality, as you maintain. —Pēters J. Vecrumba 01:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Transparency among the Transdniestrian security services responsible for SALW control is in general very low, particularly with respect to SALW transfers. The Survey team was not provided with any information about the structure of the Transdniestrian security services, their manpoweror SALW holdings. Neither was any information provided on the type and number of SALW produced, imported and exported since the Transdniestrian authorities broke away from the rest of Moldova. While the general lachof access to security-related information isa common symptom of conflict situations, in the case of the Transdniestrian authorities it helps to perpetuate and reinforce accusations of SALW production and trafficking. The lack of transparency on the part of the Transdniestrian authorities also ensures that tensions with the Moldovan Government are kept at an elevated level.EvilAlex 00:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Do you both want me to put a compromise forward, like I did before? I can try if you think it can maybe help but I just have to read that whole report first - Pernambuco 03:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I have to read this report and then I can let you know, that will be about the two first items, with "transparency" and with "indicates not involved in", these two areas. I think that he says that he rephrased or paraphrased the report to shorten or to avoid copyright violation, it is on this talk page, but the point is just to make sure that when he did this, the overall meaning stays the same. I will let you know later. - Pernambuco 17:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mauco calls to Wikipedia policies (such as WP:COPYVIO) that do not apply in order to justify the malicious editing of citations. Given the size of these citations, we can assume fair use, so there is no copyright problem. EvilAlex 13:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  The last part (3) can stay because they said that and there is a source for it to the official website, maybe the sentence is wrong but it is their opinion and we need to include the official opinion, right, because it gives their response to the critics. - Pernambuco 17:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  EvilAlex is wrong, again, but that is no surprise. He is picking and choosing his own interpretation of a report which was overwhelmingly positive towards the efforts of Transnistria in transparency and weapons control efforts, and which makes it clear that there is no conclusive evidence that Transnistria has ever produced weapons or trafficked in weapons. Thanks to Pernambuco for the initiative on trying to bring consensus. I can not say if I agree with the result yet, until I see what is being proposed. - Mauco 19:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Re:He is picking and choosing his own interpretation if you yourself are picking and choosing your own interpretation then following your logic - you are wrong. Your position is clear to me: you included only citations that only support you position and removing those others that criticized it. As I said before use citations not your words and we will not have any problem. As simple as that, as long as citation supported by the source then i will not have any objectives. I dont need your opinion in the article, if you disagree then i have the same right as you have to include my own.  EvilAlex 13:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  low transparency 

message: Please find some compromise instead of edit warring. Say something like some transparency or while transparency is low it improves Alex Bakharev 01:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree on the need for compromise. Another user already helped with a compromise on this same section of the article, by including both sides of the issue. EvilAlex said that he agreed with it. - Mauco 01:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is good. When you have some agreement just let me know and I will unlock the article Alex Bakharev 01:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have just offered to help. - Pernambuco 03:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: No, we are far from it but there is general willingness to get there. And at least it looks like we are getting started, with some input from Jmabel. We are also still waiting for Pernambuco to come back with something, I think. - Mauco 23:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's right, we are only just rounding up owr "warming" discussion :) on topics from irrelevant to central. Jmabel is of execptional help, indeed. And yes, we are waiting for all editors to come and contribute with discussion according to the points outlined by Jmabel. The people who get paid to argue on the issue of Transnistria do not put such "heart" in it as we here in Wikipedia. :) It will be a miracle if we finish in one week. :Dc76 23:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: I want to congratulate all of the editors for the progress made over the last week in many key areas. The main reason I stopped contributing was but I felt it was not being dealt with in a factual or professional way. I will continue to monitor things and make some contributions to help keep it factual..
All I ask is for all 'sides' to only use entries based on proven fsct.
One area that is a complete propaganda stunt is the 'Domestic Terrorism' section. 
There are a few points to this. 1- There is no terrorist organisations in PMR. 2, There are no outside Terrorist organisations targeting PMR.3 The three incidents referenced were never proven to be acts of terrorism and in the later cases the casuse may even be an accident. Using the word 'Terrorism' is pure mud slinging.
When the bus tragedy happened there was immeadiate speculation that Moldovan terrorists could have done it. Thats not fair to either party in hindsight. It seems the person had some mental health issues. Terrorism is the wrong word to describe what happened. 
The section should have a name change to ' Violent Incidents'  or be removed193.120.95.11 Nov 8th [[User:1193.120.95.11 , Nov 8
: See above, the section will have a name change when reopened. Mark us street Nov 8th
:: Well, I would agree there are no terrorist organizations in the PMR. I would agree there is no external terrorist organization targetting the PMR. It would be the PMR authorities themselves who are apparently terrorists. Mihail Bergman, former commandant of Tiraspol (under General Lebed, and with whom Lebed has taken pains to indicated his friendship) writes that "Moldavian nationalist" attacks were planned provocations for the express purpose of inciting war and hatred. That on the 3rd of March, 1992, an ambulance carrying a pregnant woman was shot up. The woman's mother died; she, the driver, and others in the ambulance were wounded. The PMR seperatists immediately blamed the incident on Moldavian volunteer militia, and martial law was put into place in Dubossary. In fact, the ambulance's attackers were the former OMON operatives from Riga, V. Nyikiteno and S. Bubnov, who had received their orders from Vladimir Antyufeyev. — Pēters J. Vecrumba active talk 02:42, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Relevance? Citation? Also, I'm sad to see your standards for acceptable sources seemingly lowered. — jamason 02:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: No Terrorists In Transnistria 

message: I'm going to suggest that this section be kept as just a list of issues; discussions on each of these (or logical groupings of these) should each get sections of their own rather than be discussed in this section. For the moment, "Friendly amendments" (rewordings and additions) to the list will be accepted (that is, I'm not planning to insist on the usual "do not edit my comments") but I will feel very free to revert "unfriendly amendments"—things I view as efforts to introduce bias into the framing of the debate—and others should also feel free to revert obviously unfriendly amendments. If I believe someone is "gaming" this, I reserve the right to revoke my permission for that person to edit my summary of the issues. - Jmabel | Talk 19:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you modify the list below, please don't forget to modify accordingly the sections 34-40 of the Talk Page, and vice-versa, so that one can keep track. Thank you!:Dc76 00:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Attempted list of issues to be addressed