Talk:Duchy of Oels

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the proposal was move to English-language title. DrKiernan (talk) 15:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

message: *:Duchy of Oleśnica → :Duchy of Oels —(Discuss)— In English source literature, when speaking of the duchy or of the ducal title, the form given is Oels, even when speaking of the Württemburg and Brunswick-Lunenburg/Lüneburg dukes where umlauts tend to be given (although the German article seems to omit this now). Anglosphere sources follow with Olesnica and then Oleśnica. There are many more Duchies of Silesia, but this one particularly stands out as having a predominately English name which differs from the Polish form. —Charles 18:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Using that argument and rationale, one would have to move the Duchy of Warsaw to the "Duchy of Warszawa". Would that be disruptive? Dr. Dan (talk) 23:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Using that argument is nothing but building a straw man.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  23:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all, I chose not to vote at the Duchy of Auschwitz move because both sides were unable to produce sufficient evidence to convince me one way or the other. This one is truly a no brainer (with a plethora of English sources using Duchy of Oels, particularly dealing with the Napoleonic era). Let's not waste time, your suggestion for a speedy close, would certainly be in order here. It remains English Wikipedia, and the subject matter has an established English name. Dr. Dan (talk) 23:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

text: See below. Charles 18:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

text: *Are 45-ish or more not from the 19th century? Charles 13:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

text: *I too was struck by the large number of "old" sources.  Such sources do have value, but newer sources are of course better.  After refining the search to include only 1950-2007 publication dates, there are still over fifty citations  , which is still more than the total citations for any variant of "Oleśnica".Erudy (talk) 17:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I clicked on the link given above by User:Poeticbent. There were only FOUR instances where the book mentioned a duchy named Olesnica.  That compares with dozens and dozens of instances of a duchy named Oels. Noel S McFerran (talk) 18:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I repeat, Duchy of Oels (here) is mentioned only in about two dozen titles published before the end of nineteen century. The proposed move is based in conclusion drawn from indiscriminate hoarding. Only FOUR books published in the last 57 years mention it. --Poeticbent talk 18:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

text: *And only three books have any form of Olesnica from the same period (there are none with ś). All of them are from Poland, from 1960-76. I would prefer not to make encyclopedic decisions on a handful of Communist-era translation errors. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *This is extremely tiring. Again and again, users get fooled by faulty optical character recognition. All three books have ś in the name of the Duchy, only one little click away. --Poeticbent talk 20:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

text: **Yes, it is. I am not arguing Olesnica vs. Oleśnica. I assert that there is no evidence whatever that English-speakers call this the Duchy of Oleśnica at all, or ever have. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:56, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: Regarding he new Schenk map that's been added to the article, since it's impossible to read the detail, what name is used for the town on it? Not the Latin name of the map. Will I be surprised? Dr. Dan (talk) 02:30, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding the New Map

message: Let's not start using travel guides to reference Wikipedia, please. Dr. Dan (talk) 20:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Travel Guides

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thread_title:  External links modified