Talk:Centre-left politics

message: Not that I am a fan, but the Liberal Party of Canada has a social liberal agenda, supports government intervention in areas such as child care, healthcare, and public broadcasting. They might not be as progressive as the NDP, but I think that since the end of the Jean Chretien era anyway centre-left is a term that describes them accurately. I don't overly like the fact that this article exists as in many cases the distinction between centre-left and left of centre can be blured. Take for example the NDP, historically a democratic socialist party, considered by most to be on the Left, opposes globalization and supports an expansion of government services and regulation, yet on the other hand provincially in British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario at various times in government has followed a very centrist agenda. Maybe this article should be merged?
(Canadianpunk77 03:24, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liberal Party 

message: This should be merged into Left-Right politics. -- Kaihsu 17:12, 2004 Mar 1 (UTC)
:Or perhaps Left-wing politics should have a centre-left subsection? Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 18:17, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I disagree completely.  Left-Right politics has its place, but I should note that there is also a Left-wing politics page, a Right-wing politics page, and a Centre-right page to go along with this one.  If we attempted to fit everything into the Left-Right politics page, that page would be split due to wiki policy (re: length).  All of these pages relate to each other, and, as such, an effort should be taken to minimize repetition.  However, this does not mean that all left and right related pages should be merged into one specific page. --(Ptah, the El Daoud 02:33, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger suggestion 

message: This just doesn't make any sense. And it is all wrong. Like Norway. The Norwegian Red-Green Coalition and the Labour Party itself are not center-left. They are left-wing.
: Don't hesitate to make changes. --(Ptah, the El Daoud 23:55, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norway 

message: I removed the Libertarian Party from the list of center-left parties.  While they do uphold many of the same viewpoints about civil liberties, their fiscal policies are completely inconsistent with "center-left" ideology.  Many Libertarians also dislike the simplistic notion of a left-right spectrum, which is why they represent themselves on a graph with both a social freedom and a fiscal freedom axis.  Therefore, despite their social views, it is likely that Libertarians would take issue with their inclusion on this list.
Rob Shepard 10:45, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I previously signed at the top somehow so I just removed that. Rob Shepard 10:46, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually Libertarian ideology is the height of simplicity, but I agree that they are an extreme right-wing party and don't belong on the list.Nwe (talk) 11:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  USA Parties 

message: The Socialist Party USA supports the gradual nationalization of the American economy and creation of a socialist state. That makes them a party of the Left, not the centre-left.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.239.105.238 (talk) 16:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Socialist Party USA 

message: Someone please explain to me how the Republican Party is a mixture of centre right and right-wing but the Democratic Party is so balanced between centre left and centre right. What makes someone right-wing and what makes someone left-wing? And you say Dennis Kucinich is centre left??? I respect your opinion, but I just have a really hard time believing Dennis Kucinich is anything but left-wing. What credible source do you have to support your claim?--Lucky Mitch (talk) 22:47, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the American political system is skewed towards the right. Many people in the Democratic Party hold decidly centre-right views on key issues (eg. on death penalty,  private healthcare, workers' rights, gun ownership, support for American foreign policy, business-influence on political parties), much more mainstream Republicans are likely to hold extreme right-wing views on religion, the markets or foreign policy, while conversely only the rarest examples are likely to hold noticeably centre-left views. Kucinich is obviously centre-left. His policy positions have left-wing connotations (he's not anti-capitalist, opposed to every aspect of American foreign policy by default etc.). His opinions fit with general centre-left, social-democratic values.Nwe 15:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I've already given you some of them above; anti-capitalism is the most important example. There are very few major left-wing politicians in the US, such is the nature of politics in America. Even people like Bernie Sanders or Ralph Nader are centre-left by international standards. For various historical reasons the US has never had a proper socialist political tradition and hence has no real major left-wing politicians. There are plenty of left-wing writers and intellectuals and so, arguably, is Michael Moore; aswell as most of the many Socialist parties and, previosly, the Socialist Party of America. But this is really mostly besides the point. In the context of this discussion the most important fact to remember is that the mainstream policy Democratic Party for most of last 20 yaers has been undeniably centre-right, as are the  apparent stalwarts of the current Democratic Party, the Clintons, and is most closely affiliated in terms of ideology with the European Christian Democratic tradition.Nwe 12:06, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Fascism is not the opposite of socialism, you should know that. Socialism is a far more popular and inclusive term than Fascism, to make a complete understatement. No mainstream centre-right party is called the "Fascist Party", as opposed to mainstream centre-left parties, in fact no party in the world calls itself "Fascist". You're unlikely to get 20-50% of populations describing themselves as "Fascists". Most left-wingers are likely to be at least fairly close to socialism (although a lot of self-described socialists are more centre-left). By right-wing we generally mean a strict, ideological adherence to the free-market, as well possibly devout religiosity. Both ideals have a strong thread in the Republican party, Socialism does not have a strong position in the Democratic party, which is closest to the Christian Democrats.Nwe 13:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Fair enough. With regards to the centre-right issue. Yes its true that Giuliani, for example, holds some left-leaning views, but, as you say, that isn't his general position. Clinton, and many mainstream democrats, hold fundamental values that mirror an explicit centre-right political position. This is the case with respect to economic and social issues in particular. But also foreign policy, proximity to corporate interests etc. At the half the Congressional Democratic Party, I'd guess, would, if transferred to most other national political, would fit most conveniently into a mainstream centre-right party. They'd be there with the moderate Republicans. Describing the the Democrats as "centre and centre left" would simply be misleading. It would simply imply some sort of particularly moderate leftism as its ideological basis, which is fundamentally untrue.Nwe 17:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  US Democratic Party mixture of centre left and right 

message: Left-wing does not mean the same thing as far left, it includes both the far left and the center-left so right off the bat saying a party is "a mixture between center-left and left-wing" doesn't even make sense. Many of these comments next to the party names are both uncited and highly debateable. Also, a party can only be in one spot on the political spectrum. A party may have some different tendencies but it lands in the general center-left or far left area thus it can only be either center-left or far left not a mixture of any kind.--Lucky Mitch (talk) 02:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments next to party names 

message: Should defunct parties like the US Natural Law Party remain on the list? levin-bj84 18:16, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defunct parties 

message: In the list of parties nationally, why is Northern Ireland seperate from United Kingdom? If you list them as two seperate entities, the UK should be refered to as Great britain. United Kingdom is the name of two kingdoms United - Britain and ireland.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.35.211 (talk) 17:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't necessarily on a national basis, and parties  in Northern Ireland are completely different from those in UK, so it makes sense.Nwe (talk) 16:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I concur with the first poster - Northern Ireland is part of the UK - so you should have said '...parties in Northern Ireland are completely different from those in Great Britain' - because the UK is both. Either UK is changed to GB or NI has to be under UK. It makes no sense otherwise. 80.195.146.94 (talk) 08:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

text: ...then the text should read 'Great Britain' rather than 'United Kingdom.' And that wouldn't be improper or incorrect in any wise, if it be so as ye all say that the parties we have listed under 'United Kingdom' apply not to Northern Ireland: that would necessarily mean that they apply only in Great Britain; and the kingdom's full name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Firejuggler86 (talk) 00:07, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northern Ireland seperate from United Kingdom? 

message: I find it laughable that the Democratic Party is considered a centre-left party. Maybe back in the days of FDR but for the most part it's a moderate/liberal Republican party. Most New Democrats are Rockafeller Republicans. Bill Clinton moved the party to the right and today is widely supported by big business and Wall Street. No Centre-left party would've enacted NAFTA, reformed Welfare and staffed their cabinet with Wall Street types. Not gonna happen. And finally the new London mayor, Boris Johnson, a LIBERTARIAN, actually sought out advise from former CLINTON people on economic policy. It turns out that in most nations, the Clintons and the Democratic party are seen as centre-right. 
The Democratic Party is a centrist party at most.
Response:
I'd also suggest to stop the soapboxing. Most western left/centre left major parties have become far more economically liberalised. The 'centre' has shifted, centre-left and centre-right are relative. Timeshift (talk) 23:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you read the Democrats article for starters? They are not "well" to the right of other centre left parties in the world. They are not as left as say a democratic socialist but still "fit" as far as "Centre-left" list goes. Try reading up on some of these left/right articles a bit first before you go reverting all over the place. To remove the Republicans from the Centre-right article was pretty close to vandalism in my opinion. You really need to educate yourself on this whole left/right situation.--Sting Buzz Me... 00:21, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Take the WP:SOAPBOXing elsewhere. The US Democrats are a centre-left party. Timeshift (talk) 06:01, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

text: If you refer to all the wiki articles on various political parties and the left-right spectrum, I find it hard to disagree with this. 89.241.152.119 (talk) 19:01, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Democratic Party is a Centre-Right Party 

message: I think there is room for a re-think on the greens been placed on the list, certaintly many of there detracters (liberal party) would call them 'dangerous' socialists, is there someone who can confirm this or confirm as to why they make the list
cheers --Mdavies 965 (talk) 10:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't take this as a disagreement or agreement (more a comment), but don't the Liberals call Labor dangerous socialists too? Everyone is a dangerous socialist to them. I note the definition of centre-left is "whose views stretch from the centre to the left on the left-right spectrum, excluding far left stances". I wouldn't call the Greens far left. Timeshift (talk) 10:45, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Its just that the greens although supporting labor tend to hold, to put it simply, a more leftish view however i wouldnt consider myself an expert but the greens tend to hide there more "extreme" policies and gain public intrest from issues such as climate change and social justice--Mdavies 965 (talk) 11:04, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course the Greens are more left than Labor. Labor are centrists. And for you to say the Greens have "extreme" policies is your point of view, and from my point of view, untrue. Timeshift (talk) 11:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

text: No that is not my view i was merely having a joke  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdavies 965 (talk • contribs) 11:24, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're not here to seriously discuss the article, then don't post here at all. Wikipedia is not the place for that. Timeshift (talk) 11:28, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

text: My point is that many of the views the greens share (for which i largly agree) would be considered outlandish by the largly conservative public--Mdavies 965 (talk) 11:33, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's your point of view, and original research. The fact of the matter is the Greens are not far-left, so they do come under the centre-left umbrella, which ranges from the centre to the left under the left-right spectrum. Timeshift (talk) 11:36, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly disagree. The Australian Greens have an almost universally enviro-social agenda and at best exhibit minimal interest or policy that could be considered pro-business, pro-development or pro-anything from the 'other side of the fence'. That would make them fair and squarely left-wing. I don't think they can be considered far- or extremist-left, as perhaps some of the non-political environmental groups in Australia tend to be, but there is no way they can be considered centre-left, especially if you consider Australian Labor centre-left. I've removed the reference on this page.150.101.108.23 (talk) 11:18, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  (australian) Greens centre-left? 

message: This article appears to be entirely original research.  Does anyone have any source that there is a specific ideology or group of political parties called center-left?  Mostly when the term center-left is used, it refers to a coaltion between a centrist and a leftist party.  The Four Deuces (talk) 16:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original Research 

message: Why has the list of parties been removed? --Welshsocialist (talk) 21:34, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No sources.  See the AfD.  The Four Deuces (talk) 21:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Following the AfD an editor re-wrote this article but did not work on Centre-right.  Also, use of the term centre-right is more consistent.  The Four Deuces (talk) 17:31, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Parties 

message: I removed text with the notation "remove text not supported by sources or irrelevant" and an editor restored it with the notation "rv - you cant just remove countries like that just because the definition mightn't suit you."  Please note that I did not remove the text because I did not like it but because it did not support the claims it was supposed to support.  Since this article is about the "center-left". sources used to support the inclusion of parties as center-left should actually say that they are center-left.  The Four Deuces (talk) 02:58, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of text not supported by sources 

message: There are various sources on this and other websites as well as in mainstream media and society that refer to the term "leftt-of-centre/center". Would it not be a good idea to include a new section in the main article to define the concept? It seems necessary to me because the terms "centre-leftt", "leftt-of-centre" and "left-wing", while sounding similar, describe materially different political positions. For example, in the European Parliament, there is the centre-left Party of European Socialists (PES) group, the left-of-centre European Green Party (EGP) and the left-wing Party of the European Left (EL). Each of these groups ideologies diverge significantly from on another, as such I believe it would be wise if terms used to describe said ideologies left little room for ambiguity. The term "left-of-centre" could also possibly include some of the parties in the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe Party (ALDE) group as well as parties from elsewhere in the world that subscribe to certain schools of Liberalism. What I would like to see is the political spectrum content on Wikipedia include stand-alone articles for "Left-of-centre politics" as well as "Right-of-centre politics" alongside the established main poltical positions. Though, an alternative, and potentially better solution, seeing as they are both fairly short, could be for the articles Centre-left and Centre-right politics to be expanded and respectively  renamed "Centre-left/Left-of-centre politics" and "Centre-right/Right-of-centre politics". If you agree with me, I would appreciate any assistance in this endeavour.
MBFCPresident (talk) 19:59, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left-of-Centre 

message: The following appears wholely inadequate to differentiate itself from other viewpoints.
"The centre-left opposes a wide gap between the rich and the poor and supports moderate measures to reduce the economic gap, such as a progressive income tax, laws prohibiting child labour, minimum wage laws, laws regulating working conditions, limits on working hours and laws to ensure the workers' right to organize.[2]"
The centre-right could also be said to also oppose a wide gap between rich and poor and its policies to better shrink it.  Witness the much greater income gaps in Blue States than Red, Socialist Countries than Capitalist. Labor laws are supported by many parties of various degrees of right-left as being just. 
 
It seems that rather than policies, there must be principles that can be used to describe their relationships.  For example, the Far Left advocates for Government ownership of companies and properties.  Center-Left believes in private property, heavy regulation of corporations, partial government ownership of land, and a strong presence in morality.  The Center Right believes in protecting the rights of individuals by the rule of law and light regulation of industry, and cultural permissiveness. The Far Right advocates for a government strictly occupied by foreign relations (including military) and strong individualism.    
(Barca 23:54, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccurate 

message: Why is this article in British English? Why does wikipedia seem dominated by British English? 68.96.84.98 (talk) 17:27, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: You can read about it here. freshacconci (✉) 00:21, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  British English 

message: Why is the list of centre-left parties here specific to the Anglosphere? Seems like it places WP:UNDUE weight. Wouldn't it make more sense to include centre-left parties from all over the world or just not have that section at all?  ExcellentWheatFarmer (talk) 23:42, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's done to keep it tidy, otherwise it would be too long of a list. Gorrrillla5 02:35, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of anglosphere centre-left parties? 

message: Please add Nepali Congress from Nepal as political party under centre left . 49.244.23.223 (talk) 11:59, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add nepal in list