Talk:Zodiac Killer/Archive 2

message: After pouring over every aspect of the articlesyou are the one , discussions, and the link at the end for Wikisource, I've noticed that the cypher translation listed on the Wikipedia article (under the heading "The Zodiac Letters Begin"), while including several misspellings, is significantly different than what is found in Wikisource under the heading "July 31st 1969". The one in the article is not sourced, so I was wondering if anyone knows where that came from. It seems significant that the translation found on Wikisource seems to show that there were more untranslatable sections than the last eighteen letters. Tiaera 03:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discrepancies between first cypher translation 

message: a documentry appeared on americas most wanted today. probably gonna create some excitement about this.
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Imagine how you would feel to see your name here, there and pert near everywhere as being a suspect in any crime, let alone murder, and you are innocent. People are so quick to accuse resulting in harm to innocent folks. For those that do this reprehensible deed, well, I hope YOU are falsely accused some day. Just seems fair to me.68.13.191.153 13:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are you posting this here?  Labyrinth13 05:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Weiwuweix: Excellent point.  By all means, edit that entry as you see fit.  But please remember to add a properly formatted inline citation for the information that you rely on.  Thanks.  Labyrinth13 20:54, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: americas most wanted

message: : If/when anyone wants to create the new "Zodiac suspects" page (and I would suggest doing so only after you have an entry ready to go), you can learn how to do so here: Starting a new page.
-- Labyrinth13 23:01, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And feel free to practice and preview your changes by entering them at User:Jeffpw/sandbox before adding them to this article or making a new page. Sandboxes don't link to other pages so won't show up when people search for Zodiac here on Wiki. Jeffpw 05:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: The main concern about the length of the article was for the main entry and removing the suspects has taken care of that.  If someone creates a new entry for suspects per the discussion above and then links it via wiki-link to the main article, then that will not be a problem (at least not unless the new suspects page gets too long).  I don't know enough about image-posting, other than what you have observed, i.e., that everytime I've tried to post one -- with the exception of my own copyrighted images -- they've been pulled).  
--  Labyrinth13 01:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a few words (once again) about the suspects. Even if you make a list, and it is linked to another article, the suspects definitely have to have sources in this article as well. Imagine that the sources are only put in the other article, and in some future edits they are removed (or the page gets voted for deletion). Then you have a section here that is completely unsourced. Each Wiki article should be able to stand alone without support from other articles. As to pictures, it is true that Wiki has some arcane, frustrating rules regarding images. Often perfectly acceptable images are deleted because a Fair Use rationale was not provided. If you have specific pics you want to see added here, why don't you let me take a look at them to see if they meet the requirements? I've downloaded many images and have only ever had one removed as a violation. That said, I've heard the rules may get even  more strict in the near future, so we may soon be seeing a practically imageless Wikipedia. Jeffpw 05:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand about linking in both the suspect list as well as the linked wiki page.  I'll be working on that... I was growing worried about the length of this entry, but I wanted to get everything in here too.  Each name, birth/death dates and the links/sources in the main entry should be fine then, right? Oh, and all (or at least most) of the victims'/suspects' images come directly from zodiackiller.com, and we do have permission from Tom Voigt to use them.  I suppose I can provide links to the images so you can see them, Jeff.  (Ed Neil 06:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as you're not copying verbatim, Ed, you don't need permission to report in an article what you find ion another website. And nobody should be copying verbatim (cutting and pasting). I mention this not because I think you will do that, Ed, but because there was some text inserted in the article last month that was exactly like what was in another article. Plagiarizing can result in somebody being blocked from editing. And yes, each suspect entry should have as much info as possible, including verifiable, reliable sources. Jeffpw 08:08, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Suspects

message: As the discussion page was becoming too long, I cut out all but the most recent discussions and pout them in the archive. This material caqn be found at the top of the page. Jeffpw 09:20, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive

message: Does anyoen remember enough about the guy in New York who called himself Zodiac and was attacking people for several years?  He was eventually caught and I think it would make sense to include him here as a copycat.—Preceding unsigned comment added by pennyjw (talk • contribs) 
:He has his own article. Dr. Hannibal Lecter 16:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And other than the name he is not a copycat, so including him here (except as a disambiguation, which we already do) would be nonsensical. Jeffpw 09:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New York Zodiac

message: I am filing a Request for Comments on this article.  I request comments on the propriety of the link to "The Z Files" found in External Links.  I feel that this site should not be externally linked.   In particular, I think it runs afoul of the following policies:
* From WP:EL:  Sites that violate the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligations should not be linked. Linking to websites that display copyrighted works is acceptable as long as the website has licensed the work. Knowingly directing others to a site that violates copyright may be considered contributory infringement. If you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work. Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. This is particularly relevant when linking to sites such as YouTube, where due care should be taken to avoid linking to material that violates its creator's copyright.  The Z Files page contains a link to another page on the same site: Zodiac Videos.  This is a link out page to a bunch of YouTube content that is probably not fair use.
* From WP:EL: The Z Files page contains an advertisement to buy a book written by user Labyrinth13.  This seems to be against WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided point 4: Links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services. For example, instead of linking to a commercial bookstore site, use the "ISBN" linking format, giving readers an opportunity to search a wide variety of free and non-free book sources.  (And note that the book is already noted by ISBN in the references section.) Heathhunnicutt 22:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC on External Link to Z Files

message: As there's been a lot of contention about External Links with this article (and the fact that I've been embroiled in this contention), I want to make it clear why I've added a link to sypderware.net's Zodiac site.
First, there appears to be no commercial interests there.  The site provides a great deal of statistical analysis and neato JavaScript tools for the user to take a crack at the ciphers.  Neither of these things are present in the entry here, nor should they be, but may very well be of interest to Wikipedia's readers.  It seems like a "fit" for the External Links guidelines.
Finally, I have no relation or connection to sypderware.net. -- Jimbonator 22:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New external link to Spyderware 

message: Due the recent revisions, Mr.X is only mentioned once, without explanation. If Mr. X is important (and I admit I'm not Zodiac-ologist enough to make the call), he needs explanation. If not he should probably be deleted like the other suspects. D. Deadwood 00:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mr. X