Talk:The Deer Hunter

message: Wikipedia is not IMDB. I'm excising the hilariously comprehensive credits list, which otherwise comprises more than half the page's length. R 17:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Extended cast list

message: in the summary it says the film deals with drug abuse and infedelity, but i cant remeber it doing so? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.82.197 (talk) 15:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I do see substance abuse, and it's simply just with alcohol. Changing it to alcohol abuse. --Philosophistry (talk) 06:58, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Actually, yes, that's right, Christopher Walken's character has needle marks on his arm. But I don't believe the movie "deals with drug abuse" or even alcohol abuse for that matter. Going to nix that part entirely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosophistry (talk • contribs) 07:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Drug abuse?!

message: Considering how unlikely it is you'd think of her name first when referencing this film, plus that fact that none of the other more prominent actors have their filmographies at the bottom, it seems incongruous that Streep's should be placed at the bottom. Unless someone has a good reason I'm removing it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.106.36.168 (talk) 19:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Deer Hunter is included in Streep's filmography based on its significance to her career, not her prominence in the movie. She got her first Oscar nomination from her work here, so it should definitely be included. --SHODAN 15:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Meryl Streep Filmography?

message: Currently, there is a band named The Dear Hunter (note the spelling). I understand there also is a band named Deerhunter, but that's not about whom I'm talking. I would like to compose an article, but the phrase "The Dear Hunter" redirects the the user to this page. Is it possible to not have the phrase "The Dear Hunter" redirect to this page? Radar123 03:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The ''Dear'' Hunter

message: Should one of them be cleaned out? I'm inclined to take off the part of the intro part, since the 'red llght section of Saigon' becomes clearer if one has read the plot already.
--131.207.236.198 12:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Filming locations repeated in intro AND separate section

message: I wonder why the plot summary is divided into three "acts." Is there any authorial (i.e., Cimino) warrant for it, or is it merely a contributor's whim? In terms of the film's structure, I suggest that Mike's return to Saigon is definitely an "Act four."
pmr 11:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot summary

message: Why does the article begin by describing the main characters as Rusyn American (i.e. Carpatho-Rusyn), then later describes them as Russian? These are distinct geographical, linguistic, and cultural groups. Badagnani 01:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Plus ça change ... Why does the article now begin by describing the main characters as "Russian American", then later describes them as "Ukrainian-American"? -- Jack of Oz  ... speak! ...  09:24, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I changed it to Russian American. That is what given sources claim. See also my question below. Svick (talk) 13:51, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Rusyn or Russian?

message: I'd like to point out that at no time does any Viet Cong say di di mau, like every english website on the subject says. Any help in finding what they really say would be appreciated. "Lay sung mau" or "gum su mau" have been suggested by unreliable sources, the only two sources I can find that don't say "di di" mau. "Gum su mau" is the closest sounding to what they actually say.
I don't know if the trivia section will ever be revived, but it's worth mentioning that all sorts of people referencing the movie like the Simpsons got it wrong. 69.220.2.188 (talk) 22:17, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "Di di" mau

message: :Image:Deerhunterweddinglc.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Deerhunterweddinglc.jpg

message: it should be N-Stage, probably N1 since that is the metastatic stage 08:14, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not say "doesn't have anything to do with TNM". Depends on the type of cancer. Some types are staged according to different TNM combinations. Since the article now says "terminal cancer" I think this is a non-issue. Lesion (talk) 00:27, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: what the hell is end stage bone cancer?

message: I saw pmr's comment on the "act" sections & I'd like to open a discussion on the plot summary itself. The summary is TOO LONG. Needs to be cut down & the POV statements that speculate about theme need to be taken out; this isn't a film class essay on the film. Also, the sects labeled "act" need to be rmvd, they are generally discouraged. Tommyt (talk) 20:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You couldn't be more right. Too long, and too full of POV and OR. Tool2Die4 (talk) 18:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

text: It reads like an 8th grade book report. Just ridiculous. 64.81.54.89 (talk) 11:41, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot summary...

message: The article says:
He also berates Stanley for carrying around a small revolver and waving it around, not realizing it is still loaded.
Really? I was under the impression he just didn't care that it was loaded. I don't think it was the case that he was unaware.
Also, grammatically, it should probably say "not *recognizing* it is still loaded." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjkeliher (talk • contribs) 01:17, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Not realizing it's loaded?

message: The following information was copied from the Wiki article on Cimino. I find it very useful to understand the overblown reception the movie recieved at the time of it's release. I am a Vietnam veteran who found the movie to be awfully bogus, yet many critics and audiences at the time seemed to think it was a genuine depiction of the experiences of real veterans.
Age
Cimino has given various dates for his birth, including 3 February 1939, 3 February 1943, and 16 November 1943. The Wiki article on him states that he graduated from Westbury High School on Long Island in 1956 which shows that the later dates are false. Since he was born in 1939 he would have been 29 at the time of the Tet Offensive. It is clear that he never served in Viet Nam, and that his active duty was only a few months in the Army Reserve before the Vietnam war began. The movie was not based on his experience (nor on anyone else's); yet, the reception at the time proclaimed it an authentic story of the Vietnam war. Wiki also informs us that Cimmino did not show up at the Academy Awards ceremony after his request to be there surreptiously wasn't granted.
Military Service
During the production of The Deer Hunter, Cimino had given co-workers (such as cinematographer Vilmos Zsigmond and associate producer Joann Carelli) the vague impression that much of the storyline was biographical, somehow related to the director’s own experience and based on the experiences of men he had known during his service in Vietnam. Just as the film was about to open, Cimino gave an interview to The New York Times in which he claimed that he had been “attached to a Green Beret medical unit" at the time of the Tet Offensive of 1968. When the Times reporter, who had not been able to corroborate this, questioned the studio about it, the “suits” panicked and fabricated “evidence” to support the story.[3] (Universal Studios president Thom Mount commented at the time that "I know this guy. He was no more a medic in the Green Berets than I’m a rutabaga.")[citation needed] Four months later, however, Tom Buckley, a veteran Vietnam correspondent for the Times, would corroborate that Cimino had done a stint as an Army medic, but also discovered that the director had never been attached to the Green Berets, and that his active service – just six months in 1962 – had been as a reservist who never deployed to Vietnam.[4] Cimino’s publicist reportedly said that he intended to sue Buckley, but he never did. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.117.236 (talk) 18:40, 24 December 2009 Tonygumbrell (talk) 01:43, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Info pertaining to the director's subterfuge

message: *  ... plot synopsis, review, cast, production credits, awards
Reference available for citing in the article body. Erik (talk) 20:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Allmovie

message: It seems editors can't agree whether the protagonists are Rusyn American, Russian American or Ukrainian American. Can someone clarify this? Both references of that claim say they are Russian American (the third reference to Encarta is a dead link). Is that right? Svick (talk) 20:12, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I dimly remember them being Rusyn and their church being Ruthenian Catholic, but it's been a long time since I've seen the film. The link to the Auster book is also dead, and after reading the remaining source, I'm fairly sure that most reviewers couldn't be bothered to ask if they were Rusyn or Russian, especially since (frankly) your average American isn't aware that the Rusyns even exist. I do recall that an old textbook of mine, which had a section on Vietnam movies, called them some kind of Eastern Catholic, so perhaps it might be better to ditch the sources and call them Rusyns anyway. Lockesdonkey (talk) 15:21, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Nationality of the protagonists

message: RepublicanJacobite deleted nearly all of the IMDb references for this page. The user is correct that IMDb is not a completely reliable source of (especially for notes on the production). However I have found that a lot of what is on the IMDb is accurate, especially since the web editors on IMDb are very good at vetting and authenticating submitted information. I would like to hear from other users.
Al Fecund (talk) 05:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: IMDb references

message: "Mike visits Steven, who reveals that someone in Saigon has been mailing large amounts of cash to him, and Mike is convinced that it is Nick...He realizes that Nick thinks he (Michael) and Steven are dead, since he is the only one who made it back on the helicopter."
Someone fix that please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.234.112 (talk) 19:32, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot

message: I removed the following from the article and bring it here for discussion:
:In only his second film as a director, Cimino continued to develop the trademarks that would come to define his directorial career:
:*Abrupt flashforwards (The cut from the bar to Vietnam)
:*Casting of non-professional actors in supporting roles (Chuck Aspegren as Axel)
:*Characters who become disillusioned with the American Dream (Mike, Steve, and Nick all come back psychologically and/or physically damaged from the war).
:*Controversial subject matter (the aforementioned Russian Roulette sequences).
:*Sudden bursts of violence in seemingly tranquil or naturalistic settings (the war fighting in the Vietnam jungle).
:*Striking visual style: Painterly compositions, jittery tracking shots, and wide vista establishing shots that emphasize the earth/nature (The wide establishing shots of the steel town, the jungles of Vietnam and Saigon).
This was referenced with a link to the imdb director's page, which is not a reliable source. This amounts to original research, and is written in a style that is more appropriate for a fan page, not an encyclopedia. Without better sources, and a more balanced rewrite, this cannot remain in the article. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 23:25, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Director's trademarks

message: It would appear there is some discrepancy over the details in this article about the actor who played "Stanley". As per the wiki page on John Cazale, he was dating Meryl Streep, not engaged to her, and he died of lung cancer, not bone cancer. Reference: http://theplaylist.blogspot.com/2010/06/richard-shepard-talks-john-cazale-doc.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.239.105 (talk) 18:53, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: John Cazale

message: The movie is about the trauma suffered by a band of working class former steelers during the Vietnam War. The fact that some or most of them have an ethnic connection to a particular cohort of nineteenth century Slavic migration was not really central to the plot, and I fail to see why it needs to be referred to in the opening para. Kransky (talk) 13:53, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russyn reference 

message: This sentence in the lead is not reflected in the body of the article: "The Deer Hunter contemplates the moral and mental consequences of battle as well as the effects of politically-manipulated patriotism upon common values (friendship, honor, family) in a tightly-knit community." I suggest deleting it if adequate sourcing is not added.
The same goes for this sentence in the lead: "The scenes of Russian roulette, while highly controversial on release, have been viewed as a metaphor for the Vietnam War itself." There is no mention of this metaphor in the body of the article. Plot Spoiler (talk) 05:56, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I support removing the first sentence. As for the second, there is this sentence which is not quite far off: Associated Press reporter Peter Arnett... wrote in the Los Angeles Times, "In its 20 years of war, there was not a single recorded case of Russian roulette... The central metaphor of the movie is simply a bloody lie." Also, this, especially A Voice from the Vietnam War, verifies this metaphor use. Erik (talk | contribs) 12:27, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright I support that for now but if we don't find something more explicit about the Russian roulette being the central metaphor of the film, I suggest ultimately removing that as well. Plot Spoiler (talk) 15:10, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Politically manipulated patriotism 

message: Since this was nominated it has been tagged with an unreferenced tag. The tag has been there for over a month now. The issue should be resolved soon as it currently meets the quickfail criteria at WP:Reviewing good articles. AIRcorn (talk) 09:19, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  GAN nomination 

message: The reference given for Mark Kermode's comments on the film in the section "Revisionism following Heaven's Gate" point to an article with no attribution to him or any other writer. Is there an alternative reference that can be used here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.223.144 (talk) 17:00, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kermode review 

message: "Canal+ is not one of the original production companies or distributors. Their acquisition of an older company's catalog is irrelevant." So, why articles like The Wizard of Oz and 2001: A Space Odyssey has the category ":Category:Warner Bros. films"? Warner Bros. wasn't one of the original production/distribution companies of the movie. In fact, the Warner Bros. films category says: "Please note that a majority of the pre-1950 library is now technically owned by Turner Entertainment, although Time Warner currently owns Turner, and thus, Warner Bros. Entertainment is responsible for sales and distribution.". --186.182.145.201 (talk) 18:10, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again, irrelevant. ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 04:22, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  StudioCanal ownership 

message: Any particular reason the Academy award are listed three times? Infobox, bullet point and table? Surely the triplication - in the same section, is unneccesary. --Falcadore (talk) 17:21, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Listing Oscar awards 

message: I honestly do NOT think so. It's commonly regarded as a cult movie, and there is little reason to remove the long plot description. It can arguably be moved further down though, to simplify reading of the other "chapters".
The article served it's purpose perfect for me, I was looking for a thorough run-down of the plot. Beverfar (talk) 23:05, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not going to explicitly say the article is 'too long' (too long is relative) but I will say that it has a lot more information than is necessary for a Wikipedia article. The whole plot subsection is IMO over-detailed, and I am a big fan of the film. Incidentally, The Deer Hunter is not regarded as a 'cult film' -- cult films by nature have a niche market/following and generally speaking don't win academy awards, let alone 5. This is one of the highest regarded films of the 1970s, is a benchmark in film as one of the first about the Vietnam conflict. It does not fit the bill of a cult film in any sense.Ryecatcher773 (talk) 18:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Too Long? 

message: I changed the listed ethnicity of the characters in The Deer Hunter because it was incorrect. The main characters are Ukrainian not Russian. They attend a Ukrainian American Citizen's Club (the Lemko Club, named after an ethnic group of Ukrainians), get married in a Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and dance traditional Ukrainian dances such as the Hopak and the Kolomeika. The confusion between Ukrainian and Russian culture and peoples is something that has been plaguing the Ukrainians for centuries. If you need more proof, I'd be happy to provide it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by BytorsSnowdog (talk • contribs) 01:29, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: (pasted here from my own talk page).  I don't know enough to decide the issue, and see discussion above, dating back to 2010. Ijon (talk) 02:10, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

text: Sorry, but no. I will reiterate what I have been reiterating for years. There is nothing in the screenplay to substantiate your claim. In the film they are Russian American. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 03:08, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

text: First off, I'm from Cleveland and am aware of all the filming locations in Cleveland that are seen in the movie. Lemko Hall was used mainly because of its close proximity to the church (it's like a 5 minute drive) and other filming locations in the area (and the the writers weren't Ukranian or Russian). Secondly, the church is St. Theodosius Russian Orthodox Church. I've been in it and I've also been in Lemko Hall. Secondly, дурак (durak) is Russian for fool (look it up) -- that doesn't mean Ukranians don't use the word, but your assertion of it being a Ukranian word is incorrect (the Ukranian word is дурень -- which while similar, is pronounced duren'). Also,Наше здоровье (Russian) and наше здоров'я (Ukranian) both pronounced about the same mean 'to our health' (and is basically linguistically similar in meaning and pronunciation to almost every Slavic language from Polish (nasze zdrowie), Slovak (naše zdravie), Czechs (naše zdraví), etc...)  In the movie, the doctor asks Nick if his last name (Chevotarevich) is Russian and he says, No it's an American name... which is the salient point of the film anyway (and for the record, his name could be Serbian, Slovak, Croatian, Macedonian, Belorussian, Slovenian, etc., too). This isn't the Crimean peninsula, it's an American film, and a work of fiction at that. But whatever the case, Wikipedia isn't the place to make an argument for Ukrainian culture being confused with Russian culture -- although admittedly they do share a multitude of similar characteristics. To be frank, I'd just as soon not mention their ethnic heritage at all but regardless there isn't anything in your argument or in the film that substantiates your claim. Find a reliable source to substantiate your claim and cite it... and I've looked and been unable to find one. For the record, I have no dog in this fight (in fact, my ancestors were rounded up and driven out of both countries). Ryecatcher773 (talk) 20:24, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ukrainian Americans? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is the following text really necessary, as a more complete table is given directly below it?
===51st Academy Awards===
The Deer Hunter won five Oscars at the 51st Academy Awards in 1979:
* Best Picture—Barry Spikings, Michael Deeley, Michael Cimino and John Peverall (John Wayne's final public appearance was to present the award)
* Best Director—Michael Cimino
* Best Actor in a Supporting Role—Christopher Walken
* Best Film Editing—Peter Zinner
* Best Sound—Richard Portman, William McCaughey, Aaron Rochin and Darin Knight."All the Oscars: 1979—51st Annual Academy Awards". theOscarSite.com. Retrieved 2010-05-26.
In addition, the film was nominated in four other categories:
* Best Actor in a Leading Role—Robert De Niro (lost to Jon Voight for Coming Home)
* Best Actress in a Supporting Role—Meryl Streep (lost to Maggie Smith for California Suite)
* Best Cinematography—Vilmos Zsigmond (lost to Néstor Almendros for Days of Heaven)
* Best Writing, Screenplay Written Directly for the Screen—Michael Cimino, Deric Washburn, Louis Garfinkle and Quinn Redeker (lost to Robert C. Jones, Waldo Salt and Nancy Dowd for Coming Home)
===Golden Globes===
Cimino won the film's only Golden Globe Award for Best Director. Other nominations the film included Best Motion Picture – Drama, De Niro for Best Motion Picture Actor – Drama, Walken for Best Motion Picture Actor in a Supporting Role, Streep for Best Motion Picture Actress in a Supporting Role, and Washburn for Best Screenplay – Motion Picture.
Hayal12 (talk) 16:55, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awards 

message: Cimino won the film's only Golden Globe Award for Best Director. Other nominations the film included Best Motion Picture – Drama, De Niro for Best Motion Picture Actor – Drama, Walken for Best Motion Picture Actor in a Supporting Role, Streep for Best Motion Picture Actress in a Supporting Role, and Washburn for Best Screenplay – Motion Picture.
Hayal12 (talk) 16:55, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Golden Globes

message: I cut the film list in the legacy section by half.  First, there's no reason to list every film that is related to Vietnam – Forrest Gump, in particular, did not seem appropriate, as it's intent is far different than the previously named films.  In general, though, the point is made by simply listing four films, which indicate The Deer Hunter's influence. ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 12:40, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy 

message: Maybe this fits the category
Grijalvo
--79.159.88.139 (talk) 15:25, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vietnam War films category 

message: Help:Archiving a talk page says to seek consensus before setting up automated archiving on a talk page. There are 38 sections here going back to 2005. Any objections? Largoplazo (talk) 02:11, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time to archive this Talk page? 

message: The word "revisionism" in the title of the section The Deer Hunter#Revisionism following Heaven's Gate isn't an accurate characterization of the negative views expressed by critics that the section brings to our attention.
* Vincent Canby isn't expressing a view at odds with his original view of The Deer Hunter. He's saying that for someone who could have created a disaster like Heaven's Gate to have been able to make a movie as good as Canby considered The Deer Hunter to be, the quality of the former film must have cost Cimino his soul.
* Andrew Sarris's original review of The Deer Hunter had been negative. Therefore, there is no revisionism in his also-negative remarks after seeing Heaven's Gate.
* The quote by Steven Bach doesn't imply that critics who had praised The Deer Hunter were changing their minds. He could just as well have meant that they were striving to explain how the films could have been of such different quality that they fawned over the former and panned the latter. It could be either, but we aren't told here which it is.
* The Deer Hunter was released in 1978, so it's highly unlikely that Mark Kermode (born in 1963) had had a widely published positive review in 1978 against which his caustic remarks reported here represent an about-face.
* We are told that David Thomson and A. O. Scott continue to hold The Deer Hunter in esteem, so they aren't contributing to the alleged spate of revisionism. (For what it's worth, A. O. Scott was born in 1966 and, therefore, like Kermode, almost certainly hadn't published a review in 1978 that he could either stick to or turn his back on.)
"Revisionism" is an incorrect description of the reviews presented. Maybe the selection of that word was a poor choice attributable to WP:OR. Perhaps "Retrospective commentary following Heaven's Gate". What do you all think? Largoplazo (talk) 02:36, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revisionism?