Talk:List of doping cases in sport

message: (Should Terry Bradshaw be on this list?)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.129.254 (talk) 11:25, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/ had a long list of pro road cyclists that tested positive for banned substances, but I cannot find it on their site anymore (perhaps because I cannot navigate French sites well?) Peoplesunionpro 21:25, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)
Props to you for starting it. It's a really fun page. As for the name, I would prefer a shorter name (as they are easier to find/use). Eric B. and Rakim 23:18, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: I like Drug Cheats. [[PaulinSaudi 16:22, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

text: I added Bonds and Giambi. I realize they were not 'found guilty,' but still.  [[PaulinSaudi 11:40, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Rename

message: I think they belong here at this point. I wish you (User:129.125.145.96 (Bonds and Giambi edited)) )would make a comment when you revert. [[PaulinSaudi 13:15, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Bonds and Giambi

message: Yes or no? I thought Bonds wasn't found guilty (but I'm not sure). If we include all athletes that most likely have doped but either were not officially announced or only bended the rules, this list could be much bigger, but it goes against the title :) Peoplesunionpro 21:28, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)
Also, UTA PIPIG's case was immediately thrown out.  There was a clear medical reason for her her positive test result.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eztidun (talk • contribs) 19:37, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Include those not found guilty according to their sport governing body? 

message: Can anyone confirm that Bernard Williams used banned drugs? Punkmorten 11:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's impossible to tell what he used and what he hasn't used. Williams has tested positive for a metabolite of cannabis in June 2004 and has received a public warning for it from the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) . Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 23:44, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, thanks. Perhaps you could add this information to his article? Punkmorten 16:47, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bernard Williams 

message: I see the discussion above about the page name. I also think it should be moved, because of the use of the word "guilty". In most sports there is a strict liability rule about drug abuse, so any amount of performance-enhancing drugs results in a ban from competitions even if there is an innocent explanation for how it came to be there. The term "guilty" implies malign intent. I suggest a move to List of athletes who tested positive for banned drugs. David | Talk 00:28, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The proposed name might be better than the current name, but I disagree with you on your interpretation of the word "guilty". I believe you have to view guilty in conjunction with the word in front of it, "found". This is not a list of people who were guilty of doing something, but of people who were found or held guilty by a professional organization, whether it's an official anti-doping agency or any organization regulating a particular sport. A small note: I would prefer a move to List of athletes who tested positive for banned substances, since not all banned substances are technically drugs. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 23:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think guilty is totally inappropriate for the name of the article, since few (none?) of these people were "found guilty" of anything.  Being found guilty requires breaking a law and having your day in court, and most people who are punished by a professional sports league are never charged with anything.  I think we should come up with a consensus for a new name and change it as soon as possible.  I'd be for Aecis's suggestion, List of athletes who tested positive for banned substances, although I'd be against anyone being included in that list just because the media made suggestions.  Actual suspension by a professional league would be enough in my mind. —Cleared as filed. 21:22, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I too am queasy about the word "guilty." The name ought to be changed. I prefer "Drug cheats." Paul, in Saudi 02:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have boldly moved this article to List of athletes who tested positive for banned substances.  The old article title was bordering on, if not blantantly, libel, since most of these guys haven't been "found guilty" of anything. —Cleared as filed. 15:09, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Either the page should be moved again, or the last sentence ", or have admitted to their use." should be omitted.--Bagande 16:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: No, because the page also pertains to missed tests etc. Punkmorten (talk) 08:58, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page name 

message: I am currently in the process of reformatting the page. I didn't list it here prior to the reformatting because it is only a layout edit. I am not editing the content in any way, shape or form. With the new layout, I believe the list will look clearer and more professional. I have added two topics to the list: the banned substance that was found, and an external reference. I believe that mentioning the banned substance adds to the encyclopedic content of the page, while the external reference is meant to provide proof that the athlete in question did test positive for a banned substance. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 23:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reformatting 

message: According to the Natallia Solohub article (name sometimes spelt Natallia Sologub) "She was banned from the sport between August 2001 and August 2003". However, the article lacks a ref, and I can't Google one. Can anyone point us to the official IAAF decision (usually a pdf file)? --Mais oui! 13:12, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh! I had looked at that, but missed that bit! Thanks. --Mais oui! 18:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Natallia Solohub - reference required 

message: This article is already very long, and it is just going to get longer. Would it be wise to consider splitting it, perhaps by sport? We already have separate lists for baseball. Perhaps if we spun off athletics (track and field) - which has the most - then we could keep this list manageable. Thoughts? -- Mais oui! 15:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems sensible. It only shows that the athletics coverage is starting to reach an adequate level :) In the new list we could add their event (e.g. 100 m, discus etc). Punkmorten 15:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. The first that come to mind would be List of cyclists who tested positive for banned substances and List of athletes who tested positive for banned substances. AecisBrievenbus 09:51, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  77 kilobytes, and counting... 

message: I have already mentioned this on the French sportspeople in doping cases talk page and it is a bit similar to the Bonds and Giambi case.
Guérin was suspended initially by the FFF but this punishment was overturned and the doping test declared void by the French legal Courts on the grounds that the tests were carried out incorrectly. See here. 
Should he, and by extension Bonds and Giambi, still be included? At the very least I would think there should be a footnote to explain the dubiety of the initial test. Caledonian Place 13:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps a new list of sportspeople who were cleared of doping charges? If they are not present in any list, people are going to wonder where their entries went. I remember a few more at the moment who could go in such a list. Punkmorten 18:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Vincent Guérin]] 

message: I suggest adding two columns to this list: the year in which the positive test occurred, and the suspension/penalty/warning that ensued. Any thoughts? AecisBrievenbus 09:54, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Those sound like good additions to me.  That would make seven columns, so we're probably getting a little wide.  Adding them might cause issues with screens that aren't all that wide--possibly merge the reference column into the name column (the "reference" title takes up so much more space than the "[1]" link which could be put right next to the athletes' names)? -- Jonel | Speak 16:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "reference" can be shortened to "ref", with a piped link to WP:CITE or something. Two new columns could work if we are able to fill them based on sources. Punkmorten 16:28, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two additional columns? 

message: The list scope is sportspeople "who tested positive for banned substances, or have been found to have taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs by a court of law, or have been suspended by a sporting body for failure to submit to mandatory drug testing, or have admitted to their use". Self-admitted doping use should therefore be included in the list (re: ), until the list scope is changed by consensus here on the talk page. BUT if anything the name should be changed. Why not "List of doping cases in sport", in compliance with the category of the same name? Punkmorten 18:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On first sight it seems like an ok solution. Punkmorten 15:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I still like "Drug Cheats' Paul, in Saudi 09:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current name is poor 

message: The List of sportspeople cleared of doping charges now exists. Punkmorten 11:08, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of sportspeople cleared of doping charges]] 

message: Shouldn't Michael Vick be in there for the 	Marijuana case? --HPJoker (talk) 16:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vick 

message: Josep Guardiola was cleared so I've erased from the list. References:
* Former Barcelona midfielder Josep Guardiola cleared of doping charges on appeal
* Josep Guardiola is cleared of doping charges in a Brescia court 
* Absolen Guardiola de l'acusació de dopatge 
* Pep Guardiola absolt de les acusacions de dopatge  --83.58.120.3 (talk) 19:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, there's a List of sportspeople cleared of doping charges for that. Punkmorten (talk) 21:52, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Josep Guardiola 

message: * I have added two templates:*1) "This section uses citations that are either broken or outdated", because there are a lot of dead external links, or not in full compliance with Wikipedia's official policies and external links guidelines, ref:Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. An example: "Sara Abbazova" (the external link is dead).*2) "This biographical article needs additional citations for verification"., because some of the links are not mentioning the concrete banned substance. An example: Brahim Boulami and his use of EPO. For the time being I am working at the Norwegian edition of "List of doping cases in sport", but in the future I am willing to spend more time with this edition.
Orjanlothe (talk) 21:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe I personally haven't had the time to look into it? Punkmorten (talk) 11:36, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: This list is becoming massive - there are a couple of options.  1) Split the article by sport (e.g. List of doping cases in athletics, List of doping cases in soccer, etc)  2) Split the article by continents (e.g. List of doping cases in South American sport, List of doping cases in European sport)  3) Split the article alphabetically (e.g. List of doping cases in sport A-F, List of doping cases in sport G-M).  4) Remove all those entires where the person has no article.  I'm in favour of 4 (remove all the redlinks and add them back in as and when they have articles), but what does everyone else think? Neıl ☎ 17:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Removing redlinks is a horrible solution. Wikipedia has an infinite amount of space, is a work in progress, and it has already been taken care that only sportspeople that otherwise deserve articles are listed here. Of course, there are loads of known doping cases which are not listed here, but they are omitted as being not notable. Punkmorten (talk) 19:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay - then which of the other suggestions makes most sense? Neıl ☎ 11:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If we must split the list - and I'm not convinced we need to - but if we must, then it should be by sport (Athletics, Cycling, Swimming, etc) as it is quite common that the same reference will cover multiple athletes in the same discipline. Since updating references (dead links) seem to be a problem, we should split the list in a way that helps editors keep references up to date. --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 01:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

text: perhaps keep the current list, but create other articles as you suggest e.g. doping in athletics/soccer/etc, which can then be linked at the top of the article we have now. i'd be willing to help with this if need be! Pullshapes (talk) 17:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Length

message: What good is this list being broken by alphabetical markers when one can re-arrange the list by sport (but not find what they are looking for?). If I want to find everyone within a certain sport who have confirmed doping cases, I still have to look in each letter of the alphabet.
How can we fix this? I say combine all the tables instead of tables for A, B, C, D, E... etc  -- Guroadrunner (talk) 10:07, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the tables should be combined nielsle  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.143.235.152 (talk) 19:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This can be done by adding "sortname" to all names. Like this:  instead of Fritz Aarnes. Then you can sort by name if you want, or any other parameter. Geschichte (talk) 20:04, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  List is broken by alphabetical markers 

message: It looks to me like at the 2003 World Weightlifting Championships in Vancouver Gevorg Davtyan was tested positive for banned substances,
*
and lost the silver medal.
*
However, I can't find a reference that says whether he was suspended for two years, and he isn't named in the list of suspended competitors at iwf.net. Anyone got some better reference? Nikai (talk) 10:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Gevorg Davtyan]]

message: This chart needs another column for the year(s) of the incident(s). Kingturtle (talk) 19:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  year 

message: I have erased Uta Pippig from this article, since shortly after being accused of taking testosterone, she was found NOT to have taken the hormone.  Germany threw her case out immediately after reviewing her medical records.  It's not fair to put innocent people's names on such a shameful list.  Uta Pippig is a champion who has dedicated her life to athletics.  She won her races fair and square, and she deserves to be treated as such.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eztidun (talk • contribs) 23:12, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed Uta Pippig from this list and added her to the List of sportspeople cleared of doping charges page. Pippig's case is somewhat complicated, since she was not explicitly "cleared" of her test result findings, but the settlement reached with the German track federation found that her ban was not legally justified and her ban was removed from federation records. Newsresearchmania (talk) 17:41, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uta Pippig 

message: I think it could be better. Enigmamsg 07:10, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article name 

message: Is the banner at the top meant as a disclaimer? Such usages are banned for wikipedia as the general disclaimer is already listed. I think that the hidden comment and the way all the people are listed is enough for the reader to realise that they should add a citation. Only two sportsmen (out of the thousand or so listed) had citations missing and I've added them now. Should we remove this banner in favour of vigilance in additions? Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 15:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so. Punkmorten (talk) 20:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disclaimer? 

message: It was suggested that this list be split by sport over two years ago but it was deemed unnecessary. However, this page has has now doubled in size from 101K in February 2008, to 207K in April 2010. THis is creating problems both for editing and reading in terms of the time taken to load the page.
I suggest that we start splitting of by the largest sports represented in the list first, leaving less doping prevalent sports on the main list. Would it be OK if I created List of doping cases in athletics as a split off from this main topic? This will go some way to making this page much quicker to load as athletics doping appears to make up a good 35% of entries at the least! Perhaps cycling, weightlifting, baseball and swimming may warrant their own lists too at some point. For less represented sports (e.g. football, cricket, gymnastics) there seems little reason why they can't remain on the main list here for the time being as they aren't hard to maintain. What do people think? Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)Join WikiProject Athletics! 17:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have thought earlier about splitting by letter: e.g. A-H, I-O. If splitting by sport, I think the athletics one could become very large, itself in need of a split at some time. Geschichte (talk) 21:14, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that an athletics one might need to be split by letter at a later point. However, I think it best to divide a complete list by sport first – maybe I'm wrong but I guess many people would want to see the cases from a specific sport rather than "which athletes with a surname began with the letter B have tested positive?". Is it OK if I go ahead with an athletics split? Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)Join WikiProject Athletics! 14:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to split this now. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)Join WikiProject Athletics! 13:02, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The split is done and all athletics cases are now listed at List of doping cases in athletics. Perhaps it would be a good idea to move all the cycling ones to List of doping cases in cycling also. This page is now half the size it was (not a great advertisement for athletics there) so loading and editing should not be much of a problem when the page is around the 100K mark. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)Join WikiProject Athletics! 15:47, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

text: I came by to complain about the split. But I admit I do not understand the technicalities of it. No place on the Net (a series of tubes) is there a list of athletes who were caught using drugs. This is a valuable resource. We lose no content by cutting it up, but we lose context. But of course I defer to the other editors. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 13:51, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is merely the scope of the task that has demanded the split. Something like "list of settlements with populations over 50,000" may also be useful, but it would be far too difficult to navigate and maintain on one stand-alone list (let alone load or edit on a regular basis). Probably hundreds of athletes are sanctioned for doping every month, this list just accounts for the ones editors can be bothered to mention. An unabridged, or comprehensive list can't feasibly be done – in terms of page size, this list already grew two-fold in two years. Such file sizes can render articles inaccessible to those with less powerful computers or slower internet (see Wikipedia:Article size). It took around twenty seconds to load for me before the split, and I'm hardly near the lower end of either of these specifications. Hence the athletics split (following the line of others such as List of Major League Baseball players suspended for steroids and List of doping cases in cycling). Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)Join WikiProject Athletics! 19:22, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split time? 

message: Shouldn't the Danish cyclist Michael Rasmussen be included in this list for failing to tell about his whereabouts? He did get a ban of two years, but I haven't got at source for it at this moment. Tøndemageren (talk) 12:20, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No source = no add. I'd support a source-accompanied addition since failing to reveal whereabouts is a doping-related offense. Geschichte (talk) 12:56, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this good enough as a source?? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/7484492.stm Tøndemageren (talk) 14:27, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michael Rasmussen 

message: Why isn't Josep Guardiola in the list? The present F.C.Barcelona's coach ended up his sportive career as a footballer after being excluded from competition for a 2-year period. 81.60.184.141 (talk) 17:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Josep Guardiola 

message: That's what "doping" actually means, after all. Use of prohibited recreational drugs is a separate issue from doping, so this list shouldn't conflate the two. 24.214.230.66 (talk) 07:32, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a long-running problem. The title of this article has changed many times. The list includes all sorts of drugs related to sport, not just performance drugs. There is nothing wrong with that except the title implies otherwise. All in all, not to worry. The title will almost certainly change again. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 08:17, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Paul. For instance, injecting your own blood is a form of doping, but it is not a drug. Failing to submit to testing is a "doping case", but not a performance enhancing drug. "Doping cases" encapsulates all the forms of suspensions that can occur when sportspeople break WADA's doping code. I actually think that Use of performance-enhancing drugs in sport should be moved to doping in sports, but a lot of hard work and argument will be needed to do that. SFB 16:30, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: My stance is that we should strive for a short and handy name on this list, but at the same time keep the current scope. Geschichte (talk) 21:20, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't this list be limited to just performance-enhancing drug users? 

message: soccer player claudio caniggia is missoing from the list go to his wiki page for references QueenAlexandria utc 21:34 4th Sept 2012  —Preceding undated comment added 21:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Claudio Caniggia

message: Removing Per Pedersen from the list. He used Cortisone, but as far as I can tell it was allowed when he used it. It has been banned later on. Source: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pedersen-lilholt-confess-to-cortisone-use -- Lejman (talk) 16:01, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Per Pedersen

message: Shouldn't the article title read "List of doping cases in sports" considering that it lists doping cases in numerous sports instead of just one sport? Carlatenorio (talk) 12:40, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: List of doping cases in sports?

message: Does anyone object to renaming the article title to "List of doping cases in sports"? Carlatenorio (talk) 15:01, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, if only because we have renamed this thing about a million times and no title seems to make everyone happy.  Look at the page or talk history. "Sport" is British English for what Americans call "sports." IN British English it is a mass noun; in America it is a count noun. "Sport" is acceptable. Relax. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 03:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Renaming of article title?

message: Can somebody edit the article so that the sidebar titled "Part of a series on Doping in Sport" can be hidden or shown just like the table of contents can be hidden or shown? Nuzaliwaj (talk) 09:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Hiding/showing sidebar?

message: The article has become so large in size that viewers with slow internet connections may experience difficulties when attempting to access it.
Should it be split somehow? Nuzaliwaj (talk) 20:41, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Split the article?

message: AOD9604 is not currently listed in section 2 of the WADA code which pertains to performance enhancing drugs. The lead to article states it is a list of "those who have been found, or have admitted to, having taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs, prohibited recreational drugs or have been suspended by a sporting body for failure to submit to mandatory drug testing". As AOD9604 does not currently fall under the performance enhancing or recreational drug banner, should Jobe Watson be included here? AOD9604 is banned under section 0, which is for substances not currently approved for therapeutic use.
I will not modify this article as I am an Essendon supporter and massive fan of Jobe Watson, so I will not pretend to be unbiased in this matter.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.120.16.134 (talk) 04:15, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  AOD9604 

message: Since this article is now 300kb, which is six times the suggested size for splitting, we need to split this article.  The existing scections seem to make sense to me.  Pending significant objection I indend to begin splitting out the sections on 2013-11-12. Hasteur (talk) 15:17, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I see the sense in splitting them, and commend you for your work. However (bit late now) I would have suggested that we don't need one article for each letter of the alphabet. e.g. X,Y and Z could be grouped together, as could I-J, P-Q ( or Q-R) Martin451 19:31, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  The problem is that some of the letters could be combined, but then the combined ones would have the same level of impact.  The nice thing about a collaberative project like this is we could do some merges/moves/redirects to unify the smaller letters with a neighbor.  I just tried to pick a equitable solution that would allow all to have a reasonable showing in the sublists. I intend to keep splitting the sections out via the same procedure, and then I can get to why I originally came to this page (to remove links to a archiving service that wikipedia has said no to). Hasteur (talk) 20:05, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No problems. Martin451 20:07, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed: Split list by the existing "sections" 

message: Shouldn't all the cycles who used doping in 1998 Tour De France identified in 2013 also beeing add to the list?
Below the link with the complete list
http://road.cc/content/news/89222-french-senate-names-1998-tour-de-france-dopers-ogrady-and-durand-confess  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andreatxt (talk • contribs) 23:08, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed: Add doping cases in Tour De France 1998 discovered in 2013 

message: I'm not sure if there's a talk page template for this sort of thing, analogous to , but this academic paper references this wiki article.  Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 16:40, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referenced by journal article