Talk:St James' Church, Sydney

message: *Give yourself several major headings and place the other stuff under them. At present you have only got major headings. It breaks continuity in the reading every time you have to cross a line.
#Buildings, subsections: Location, History (Macquarie, Greenway etc), Architecture, Monuments and artworks, Restoration
#Ministry subsections: Worship, Clergy, Mission or whatever
#Music subsections: Organ, Choir, Bells. (NOTE: if you have every last detail of the organ, then it constitutes a separate page i itself.  Likewise, in ancient cathedrals where the list of organists and organ scholars goes back to the 16th century, they have a separate page).
* It is part of a surviving group of Macquarie period buildings in Australia.
::Bad sentence on two points.
::# "Macquarie period" is meaningless to any person outside Australia, and also to many young Australian. It needs to state clearly "built during the  governorship of Lachlan Macquarie" (dates)
::# It says "group" and means exactly that. It doesn't mean the scattered remnants of Georgian architecture across the colony. Since I last read it, someone has changed it.  The term "group" applies to the precinct, that little clutch of buildings: church, courthouse, barracks, and two wings of of Macquarie's hospital now called the "Mint" and the "Houses of Parliament", that make up a significant remnant of old Sydney Town.
*In 1900, the interior was re-oriented to face east.   You can't make this statement unless you have explained how the church was originally orientated.   In doing this, you also need to give an indication of why the change was made.  Also, refer to the original arrangement as "Georgian" rather than as 19th century. It was most atypical of the 19th century, but was typical of 18th century churches. "Georgian" spanning both, sets it apart from the radical changes that happened in the CofE in Sydney (in some quarters) in the Victorian period.
*Wunderlich copper sheeting since it was constructed in 1822, er, I reeeally don't think so...... Wunderlich first hit the scene at the time they were building the concert hall at the Sydney Town Hall, many years later.  If that copper sheeting was Wunderlich, then it was at least 60 years after the building of the church
*and was carried out in the same design as previously. The refurbished spire was re-dedicate....  Forget the bit that says "carried out in the same design".  Simply state that the spire was "restored". (This is all that is necessary to indicate that it was the same design.)
:Don't used the word "refurbished" and never say "renovated" if you are referring to a restoration, or a "conservation". What happened in the early 20th Century was an internal "refurbishment".  Adding the chancel in the early 20th, and knocking out the chapel walls and replacing them with glass in the late 20th were "renovations".
: If you want the exact meaning of "conservation" then go and look at the sandstone wall outside the Barracks. It was "conserved" ie. all the flaking stone, horizontal shelfs and fractures were sealed with a mortar that it softer than the stone, and neutral to it. The ingress of water is impeded, without replacing or removing the original stonework. The technique is non-invasive. The spire of St James was conserved back it the 80s or 90s.
:They were terribly careful at the time, not to damage the beautiful green patina which had built up over 100 years. Shortly after that, some "restorer" (I don't know who, but I could place a bet) went arounds Sydney stripping the copper-green off all the bronze and copper, including the tarry-diddles on the Conservatorium.
*Following these repairs, further necessary work was identified, including to the roof and perimeter fence.
::#Say "this restoration", not "these repairs."
::#This is a strange statement It suggests that no-one had realised the state of the slates that had been put on by a dodgy roofer in the 1970s. My experience is that if the slates had been damaged by poor fixing, this would have been apparent long prior to 2010. I would be better to say "The next stage of the restoration work ......"
* You talk about the Greenway Award. State who your winning conservation architects are.
* Sister Freda and Reverend Richard Hill  cannot possibly link to articles in Wkipedia.  Look up "Richard Hill" and find out how to link him.  Find Sister Freda's surname. What did Sister Freda do? I presume she was a Deaconess.
* The crypt. This is a very unusual feature for an Australian church.
*The Children's Chapel. Describe it a bit. You mention two artists who were involved, but I believe that the major artist was a woman. Give this person their due, rather than just the famous names .
Don't miss my comments in the previous section on "Deleted content"
Amandajm (talk) 03:50, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for all these comments! I am working my way through implementing the suggestions and trying to develop the article further. Whiteghost.ink 06:11, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: This section needs a rewrite.  At the present, it puts the cart before the horse in that the section beigns by stating what the main feature is, before it has told us the what and the where.  Amandajm (talk) 02:16, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Chapel of the Holy Spirit

message: * Scrap that lead picture. It tells you nothing about the church except that it has a copper spire and that there are trees and a cathedral near it.  It doesn't convey the sense of that elegant little church surrounded by buildings. The view from Hyde Park Barracks looking through the gates tells that storey much more effectively.
:- Changed it. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: - Yes, they need to be paired. I can't get them to work well at the moment. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

text: - Replaced detail picture with broader perspective. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

text: - Added one. Might keep trying for a better one. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

text: - Deleted this image. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

text: - Still tweaking. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

text: - Will work on it. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

text: - Added image of classical portico. Text needs more work. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

text: - Um ... Whiteghost.ink (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll fiddle with some of the pics. Amandajm (talk) 08:51, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

text: I have just fiddled around with some of the pics, but I can't upload anything at the minute. It's running too slow. Amandajm (talk) 09:55, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Response

message: "St James' is thought to be one of Greenway's finest works."      The combination of "is thought to be" and "one of" is total nonsense!   We are looking at an architect of ten known works, of which several are minor.  It is obvious that Greenway gave a little extra attention to his churches. There is no shadow of doubt that it IS one of the finest, so the "thought to be" is unnecessary, even in the cautious world of Wikipedia. The words "one of" imply that no claim is being made that it is the finest. Amandajm (talk) 03:05, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia circumlocution

message: The solution to the roof deterioration is to replace the slates using Welsh slates
Has this been done, or not done? The verb is in the present tense. Amandajm (talk) 04:20, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been done and the sentence changed. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 08:30, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Fuzzy

message: Although the article is going well, I think it is tending towards "recentism". The more I look at into it, the more it seems that this Church has been front-and-centre in Sydney since it was consecrated, and the continuity of its service to the people and life of the city is striking. This continuity appears in all the aspects represented in the article - worship and ministry; education and music; heritage and architecture; people and events - and it needs to be better represented. So I propose to develop the text and add some historical images in order to demonstrate this aspect and balance out the decades. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 06:41, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the periods that particularly would benefit from expansion are the Allwood period, 44 years, and the Early 20th century. There is no indication of the church's service through the war years. The emphasis on one significant marriage is a overbalance. More could be said about the association with the Courts etc. Amandajm (talk) 10:33, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Context and continuity 

message: The referencing in the article is a dog's breakfast with various kinds of formatting and other problems.  I will do my best to fix some of these problems but I don't pretend to be an expert on doing this.  If anyone else feels up to the task please feel encouraged to assist. Anglicanus (talk) 04:42, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I am conscious of this problem. Need help here. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 08:33, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Thanks to Afernand74, the refs are now beautiful. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 23:25, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think my work on references is pretty much finished. I followed a "less is more" approach :-). Not happy with something? Feel free to drop me a line on my talk page. The following ref should be better sourced imho. I assume it is coming from the parish but not obvious for a casual reader  "Church Wardens' Report March–September 2013". Alberto Fernández Fernández (talk) 11:58, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referencing problems 

message: I hate them. In fact, I hate boxes, but tolerate them because some people love them
But pushpin maps, I abhor.
*They rarely look good with the lead image.
*They displace the right hand images
* They do not work effectively, because the minute you click, you lose the info.
*Co-ordinates serve the purpose effectively
In this case, on a wide computer screen (which is the usual sort nowdays, the map is displacing the two images of the church.
Either the map goes, or the two images go.  We cannot have both. It is a ghastly mess from a point of layout (anyone with a vertical screen will not see the problem)
Amandajm (talk) 09:36, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Re Map

message: "acquired its own parish in 1835" doesn't sound right to me. It may give the impression that the church bought some piece of land from another parish. I think it is the diocese who creates a new parish when the population grows in an area and then appoints a church as its parish church. I would suggest to replace it with "elevated to parish church in 1835" (Two caveat to my suggestion: English is not my mother tongue and I am not familiar with the ranking of churches (if any) in the Anglican Church) --Alberto Fernández Fernández (talk) 11:31, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.  Amandajm (talk) 01:55, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parish 

message: James Street Cathedral in Hamilton, Ontario was built in 1879 on land donated by Nathaniel Hughson in 1835. Haitian terrorists tried to demolish it in the decade after the election of Obama. Create a separate article for the church and link to anti-demolition squads. Nathaniel Hughson (16 July 1755, New York - 1 November 1837, Hamilton, Ontario) was a Loyalist who moved to Canada following the American Revolution.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.114.86.47 (talk) 00:09, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  James Street Cathedral 

message: I think it is highly unlikely that the organist shares a name with the US President. Can someone check this and update if not true?
:It was just some simple vandalism due to the higher visibility the article had while being "Today's Feature Article". It, and some other minor vandal edits have been removed. Sincerely, Wittylama 12:57, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organist? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on St James' Church, Sydney. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://sjks.org.au/wp-content/uploads/b-os19-sermon-15.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 02:39, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on St James' Church, Sydney. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.icssydney.com.au/index.php?id=435
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151007010038/http://sjks.org.au/wp-content/uploads/b-os19-sermon-15.pdf to http://sjks.org.au/wp-content/uploads/b-os19-sermon-15.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:14, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 12 external links on St James' Church, Sydney. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140113035353/http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_crh.html to http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_crh.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140309030417/http://www.supremecourt.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/supremecourt/sco2_history/sco2_oldsupremecourt_building.html to http://www.supremecourt.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/supremecourt/sco2_history/sco2_oldsupremecourt_building.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140118232706/http://www.dwdnsw.org.au/ves/index.php/article/videos to http://www.dwdnsw.org.au/ves/index.php/article/videos
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131219034523/http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LA20120215033 to http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LA20120215033
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140127101134/http://banknotes.rba.gov.au/otherbanknotes.html to http://banknotes.rba.gov.au/otherbanknotes.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140214052911/http://sjks.org.au/childrens-chapel/ to http://sjks.org.au/childrens-chapel/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130818021822/http://fom.org.au/ to http://www.fom.org.au/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140114141725/http://sjks.org.au/education/ to http://sjks.org.au/education/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140114141732/http://sjks.org.au/education/st-james-institute/ to http://sjks.org.au/education/st-james-institute/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140110090933/http://www.graemeskinner.id.au/checklist1788-1840.htm to http://www.graemeskinner.id.au/checklist1788-1840.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140114141840/http://sjks.org.au/orchestral-masses-2014/ to http://sjks.org.au/orchestral-masses-2014/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140110092027/http://sjks.org.au/wp-content/uploads/MUSIC_Further-information-about-the-Choir-of-St-James.pdf to http://sjks.org.au/wp-content/uploads/MUSIC_Further-information-about-the-Choir-of-St-James.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:13, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on St James' Church, Sydney. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140903101204/http://www.thecom.com.au/about.html to http://www.thecom.com.au/about.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:26, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on St James' Church, Sydney. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140125083415/http://sjks.org.au/wp-content/uploads/October-2011.pdf to http://sjks.org.au/wp-content/uploads/October-2011.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:16, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The addition of a short description has been reverted with the edit summary "Undid revision 840340970 by Pbsouthwood (talk) this is Reverse engineering Wikidata, please don’t duplicate work. That template has no consensus for use." In fact a strong consensus for its use was established in February 2018 by a lengthy, well-supported debate at the RfC at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 145 #RfC: Populating article descriptions magic word. The close read:  A full list of previous discussions can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Short descriptions #History, but in brief, the template is merely a convenient wrapper for the  magic word, to allow tracking categories, etc. As the purpose of the template is well supported, and consensus on its use is clear, I'd like to suggest that the reversion is self-reverted and the established consensus is abided by. --RexxS (talk) 14:13, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Short description