Talk:Indianapolis/Archive 1

message: The article could be improved by reorganizing some of the sections, adding better transitions, and perhaps moving some information to separate articles.  That being said, I do not think the article is necessarily too lengthy; it just needs better editing.  Several other city articles covering cities of similar size and importance as Indianapolis are just as long, and some are even longer.  
I don't think the list of neighborhoods is silly, but I would pare it down to remove some of the more obscure neighborhoods.
The sections on crime and law enforcement could be combined and greatly scaled down.  
I don't see a problem with covering some of the details of Unigov in the main city article, especially since it has had such a major impact on the history and development of the city; the main article should at least provide an overview and mention current efforts to expand Unigov.  The specific Unigov article can provide a detailed examination of the city-county consolidation.
I agree the Klan section could be scaled down and there could be links to the other articles which cover the history of the Klan in Indiana.  
Indiana Avenue and the African-American community which thrived along it made up an integral part of the city's cultural and social history.  I think Indiana Avenue and its related jazz and blues musical heritage should be mentioned in the main city article and then a separate article could cover the topic in greater detail.   
Finally, I don't see a problem with the history section of the main article as it simply provides an overview of the growth and development of the city.  I do agree there should at least be a brief reference to Eli Lilly & Co and the major impact the company, the Lilly family, and the Lilly Endowment have had on the growth and development of the city and state (and the nation and the rest of the world to a certain extent).  As for Stephen Hilbert, while he and his wife TomiSue are certainly colorful individuals, they most certainly do NOT deserve to be mentioned in a scholarly overview of the history of Indianapolis.
--Kangaroo1 18:14, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 1

message: The list of neighborhoods is just silly. I never heard of half of them when I was living in Indy.
:First of all, the list of neighborhoods is vital in that it provides details about Indianapolis and how the neighborhoods add to Indianapolis's urban character. And second, not only do I know of every neighborhood on that list, I have been to them all. Just because you have not heard of those neighborhoods does not mean that they dont exist. What an arbitrary thing to say. Wikichange 19:52, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, living in Fountain Square until a couple years ago, I know exactly where every single one of the neighborhoods that are listed in this article are.  Maybe you should go outside sometime and stop making articles about how computers used to be expensive and were really slow (OMG BILL GATES SAID 640kb OF MEMORY IS ENOUGH FOR ANYBODY LOLZORZ, HE WAS SO WRONG, I HAVE 2GB AND IT STILL HASN'T MADE ME COOL). Triikan 17:09, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 2

message: Are there any ideas as to how the Indianapolis page should be scaled down?134.68.176.190 21:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 3

message: I wonder if the Indy images could be moved to WikiCommons so that we can use them in some of the foreign-language articles?--69.245.192.52 02:48, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 4

message: Sorry, that was me (forgot to log in). --69.245.192.52 02:50, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 5

message: Couldn't we get a real picture of the skyline as the intro picture? To be honest, it's pretty sad that we have an article on a city in which many hundreds of thousands of people live, work, and visit everyday that has an artist's conception as the main picture. bob rulz 06:27, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture

message: I understand the move to daylight saving has been confirmed from April 2006. Can we now show the time zone during this period is UTC -4 hours? Auswide 9:59, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Daylight Saving

message: In the article List of United States cities by population, Indianapolis's population is listed as 784,242 instead of 794,160. This is because the editors have decided to use the census balance figures rather than the actual city populations for consolidated city-counties. So despite it being billed as a "list of cities", it doesn't actually list Nashville or Indianapolis, but instead lists their "balances". If you have an opinion about this, please make it known in the poll. Thanks. Kaldari 19:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please vote in the population poll 

message: The Indianapolis article seems overly long.  I think a good area to trim down would be the 'Cultural Features' section.  A mention of each cultural district/feature and maybe one sentence about each should be sufficient.  The cultural district section should then be spun off into its own article and linked to this section.
Also, the cultural section is somewhat incorrect.  The city has officially named 6 cultural districts -- Monument Circle and the War Memorial Plaza are not among them.  While I think those sections are fine (perhaps expansion of the Monument Circle section), a distinction should be made between the "official districts" and the "interesting features".
Cultural Districts:
http://www.discoverculturaldistricts.com/alldistrictsmap.htm
:I attempted to shorten the article by editing unnecessary information (here we go!) and creating a separate article for topics such as history, etc. Wikichange 09:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too long? 

message: I'm not sure what would be the right place for this text, but the introduction is not it, so I am removing it. L. Pistachio 04:48, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indianapolis Prize 

message: I had made some minor edits regarding the section on the weather of Indianapolis, but even with the links to cited sources, someone obviously had intentions of starting a revert war in mind... Wikichange 01:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weather? 

message: I recommend we create, as a seperate entry, the Indianapolis Cultural Districts and maintain a small blurb refering to them and directing visitors to that entry.  Each one is worth of its own entry anyway. Jgassens 19:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Create Indianapolis Cultural Districts as a seperate article 

message: An article that you have been involved in editing, Park Lafayette, has been listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Park Lafayette. Please look there to see why this is, if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.  --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 02:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AfD Nomination: [[Park Lafayette]] 

message: I created this article with the intent of adding insight about many of Indianapolis's more fascinating neighborhoods, so that readers will have a better understanding on what life here is like in some areas. With the exception of the Cultural District stubs, there were virtually NO articles about some of Indy's neighborhoods.
In my opinion, this article should NOT be merged for three reasons:
* the Indianapolis article is overly long as it is,
* there are a sufficient amount of neighborhoods that have yet to be added, and
* a few of the neighborhoods have enough detail to make for moderate-sized entries on Wikipedia.
Granted, Indianapolis's neighborhoods aren't nearly as noteworthy as those in Chicago or San Francisco, but I still think that a separate article has its benefits. Wikichange 05:06, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree; the fact that some local residents are unfamiliar with some of them isn't surprising for a city of this size - 360 square miles (about the size of NYC plus Yonkers, Newark and Jersey City; or about the same as NYC and Washington, D.C. combined). I'm sure some residents of Brooklyn, Newark and the Bronx don't know all the local neighborhoods in that whole area, either. A city with a population of 800,000 should generally have an article identifying/discussing its neighborhoods. MisfitToys 00:39, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neighborhoods of Indianapolis 

message: There is a survey in progress at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements) to determine if there is consensus on a proposed change to the U.S. city naming conventions to be consistent with other countries, in particular Canada. 
:This proposal would allow for this article to be located at Indianapolis instead of Indianapolis, Indiana, bringing articles for American cities into line with articles for cities such as Paris and Toronto.--DaveOinSF 16:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would support it, because it makes finding articles a lot easier. Besides, it's less typing! Wikichange 18:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: However the proposal would allow U.S. cities to be inconsistent with the vast majority of other U.S. cities and towns, which (with a few exceptions) all use the "city, state" convention. -Will Beback 23:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey on proposal to make U.S. city naming guidelines consistent with others countries

message: If anyone can find a _good_ website about the Murat Centre, please link to it under Culture and Recreation. Thanks. Notreallydavid 03:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Murat Centre

message: why does it say Indianapolis, Missouri above its picture? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.225.23.247 (talk) 07:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indianapolis, Missouri? 

message: For the past decade, crime rates within Indianapolis city limits have fluctuated greatly. In the late 1990s, violent crimes in inner-city neighborhoods located within the old city limits (pre-consolidation) peaked. The IPD police district, which serves about 37% of the county's total population and has a geographic area covering mostly the old pre-consolidation city limits, recorded 130 homicides in the year 1998 to average approximately 40.3 homicides per 100,000 people.[citation needed] This is over 6 times the 1998 national homicide average of 6.3 per 100,000 people.[citation needed] Meanwhile, Marion County Sheriff's police district serving the remaining 63% of the county's population, which includes the majority of the residents in the Consolidated City, recorded only 32 homicides in 1998, averaging about 5.9 murders per 100,000 people, slightly less than the 1998 national homicide average. [citation needed] Homicides in the IPD police district dropped dramatically in 1999 and have remained lower through 2005. In 2005, the IPD police district recorded 88 homicides to average 27.3 homicides per 100,000 people; none the less, the murder rate in the IPD district is still almost 5 times the 2005 national average. [citation needed]
INDPLS - 108 murders in 2005
average of 13.8.
GET IT RIGHT KTHX. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.21.214.162 (talk) 04:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WRONG.  

message: Is there a better picture that can be used here? The main picture does not show much of the skyline and even looks a little crooked, plus it is half covered in trees. Am I the only one that doesn't like it?  user: kcflood 15:06, 19 January 2007
-----
The picture needs to be in the public domain (i.e. not subject to copyright protection).  If it is hard to find a good picture in the public domain off the Web, then a local user could simply take a good skyline picture and permit it to be posted on site. 
Kangaroo1 21:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indianapolis Picture 

message: Why isn't there an economy section about Indianapolis? 75.22.1.57 02:43, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ??... 

message: When someone types in "Indianapolis" into the search field it NO longer redirects to this page.  Someone created a new Indianapolis article and this is where the search for "Indianapolis" redirects.  The new Indianapolis article carried over the contents of this article at the date the new page was created; however, new updates to this article are NOT reflected in the new article.  
Does anyone know why a new Indianapolis article was created?
Kangaroo1 04:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This was vandalism to the redirect (unfortunately, some two days old). It is fixed now. Cmprince 04:57, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Indy redirect

message: The External Links section in this article has grown way beyond where it should be, in my opinion. It seems like we have forgotten that WP is not a Directory. I am going to try to be bold and also a little drastic, taking a leaf out of what the  External Links policy says - if the article isn't about Indy, it is gone.  So businesses, newspapers, and the like will be deleted.  I will leave only the official government sites and a link to the ODP (which is a directory that is acceptable to link to, as per WP:EL.  The clean-up tag has been there for several months, now, so I suggest we start afresh and only allow links in that are really about Indy as a whole, and not some aspect of it.  If something is notable enough, then it should be mentioned in the article itself, with the appropriate EL, if necessary.
So before I go ahead and take this bold move - does anyone have any strenuous objection (aside from "but I think my site should stay"...) -- Alucard (Dr.) | Talk 16:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please go ahead. I've been watching this article for quite a while now, as it's a target of frequent vandalism, and the EL section is indeed way past acceptable length and choice of links. Fvasconcellos 16:14, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sorting out the EL section 

message: - "According to the United States Census Bureau, "the balance" (that part of Marion County not part of another municipality) has a total area of 368.2 square miles (953.5 km²)—361.5 square miles (936.2 km²) of it is land and 6.7 square miles (17.3 km²) of it is water. The total area is 1.81% water. These figures are slightly misleading because they do not represent the entire Consolidated City of Indianapolis (all of Marion County, except the four "excluded" communities). The total area of the Consolidated City of Indianapolis, which does not count the four "excluded" communities, covers approximately 373.1 square miles (966.3 km²)."   
-    
- Does this make sense to anyone? If so, would you kindly rephrase it? 159.218.115.182 
Sorry, I accidentally deleted your remarks above in trying to remove the quotation you inexplicably stuck in some earlier comments of mine.  In any event, to respond to your comments: The passage you cite is written in English, and although it may benefit from a slight revision to make the language clearer, I understand what the writer was trying to communicate. 
His/her point is that the U.S. Census Bureau has created an artificial area called "Indianapolis, Balance."  This census area is NOT a legal municipality, nor a commonly designated area (such as a place locals would refer to);instead, "Indianapolis, Balance" is a population measurement that only exists for Census purposes.  The measured area covers all of Marion County, EXCEPT it does NOT cover the so-called "included towns" (such as Williams Creek, Meridian Hills, etc.) which are legally part of the City of Indianapolis (since the passage of Unigov), nor does it include the four "excluded" municipalities (for Unigov purposes) which are Lawrence, Speedway, Southport, and Beech Grove.  I understand not counting the "excluded" municipalities when measuring the population of Indianapolis, as these communities are actually separate cities/towns; however, the "included towns," such as Williams Creek, Meridian Hills, etc are legally part of Indianapolis now and have no separate legislative or police authority (some of these communities, much like private subdivisions, do contract with the IMPD department to pay for extra deputy patrols; however this activity and the rest of their actions are more akin to a neighborhood association than a true municipality--these communities CANNOT pass any laws separate from Indianapolis).  Also, the U.S. Census causes further confusion by also counting and publishing population statistics on the the full Consolidated City of Indianapolis which DOES include the so-called "included" towns (Williams Creek, Meridian Hills, etc--but does not count the "excluded" municipalities).  I have no idea why anyone wants to have more than one detailed breakdown of the the city's population, but the Census apparently thinks some people are interested, hence, it has two different methods of measuring the population of Indianapolis.  In truth, the whole topic is rather esoteric, but these are the details nonetheless.  
Regardless of what the Census does with measuring population, the official legal municipality is the Consolidated City of Indianapolis, and there should be one measurement and that should be the end of it--there is no such place called "Indianapolis, Balance," and the Census should stop publishing measurements of this made-up area.  I am sure it is probably more than you wanted to know, but this is what the section you cite is trying to explain.
Kangaroo1 05:14, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  In English Please 

message: Starting a new section for comments on additions, or materials, which appear to have a fiscal impetus.  
For instance, inserting "Wishard Health Services or (Wishard Memorial Hospital), one of Indianapolis' oldest hospitals (145 years), serves as the community hospital for the city of Indianapolis. Wishard is the home of residency for IU Medical students. (http://www.wishard.edu/about-us.html)" in the EDUCATION section, seems to be a bit out of place. Perhaps this would be better served in the Indiana University School of Medicine article. Deleting 159.218.115.182 12:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertising? 

message: Naptown is used far far more than cirle city by the youth and hip hop community. Why is it not included?
--------
Exactly! youth and hip hop is not a majority of the city's population. Anyways please just let this stupid topic die, its not a nickname.
--TheHoosierState89
: Once again, if you review the entry for Nickname you'll find that Naptown clearly falls under the definition.  You have made it apparent that you dislike "youth and hip hop community" but your distaste should not guide us in what does and does not get included in Wikipedia. Gruber76 15:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  why is Naptown not included under nicknames? 

message: There has been no response to my comments on June 21 or June 26th arguing to include Naptown.  A consensus was declared and has not been refuted.  Please either leave "Naptown" in the page or join the discussion.  Gruber76 03:47, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An informal poll of 12 people doesn't go far to refute the arguments that have been made before.  The previous discussion has indicated very strongly that Naptown is used by a significant number of people, is notable, and has the weight of references.  That your experience has not exposed you to the use of Naptown does not mean it is not a nickname. Gruber76 04:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

text: If you believe this discussion to be beneath you, you have the option of walking away.  Otherwise, please help keep the discussion civil. 1/12 of TheHoosierState89's friends have heard the nickname Naptown; how is that an argument against including it as a nickname?  Reading the definition of nickname it appears that what you and TheHoosierState89 are advocating is only using "titles" in the "nickname" field.  Gruber76 12:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naptown inclusion 

message: The wording "home of Northwest Airlines" makes it sound like NWA is headquartered in Indianapolis.  This is not true--Northwest is headquartered in Minnesota, while Indy is merely a focus city. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.29.178.254 (talk) 00:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Home of Northwest Airlines? 

message: Is it just me or does it seem like the current listing of newsprint is akin to advertising? 159.218.115.182 01:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: News Media

message: Where in the heck did you get 153 murders for Indianapolis?
None of that information is verified. 
On top of that, Indianapolis has 140 murders in 2006.
It is fixed with a reference.  Instead of complaining, why don't you be kind and correct it yourself?  Also, remember to sign your posts.  Reywas92TalkReview me 01:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Making wikipedia unreliable. 

message: :Image:Lucasoilplanned.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Lucasoilplanned.jpg

message: Under Demographics, I added the City of Indianapolis Population by year history from 1850 thru 2000. JeffreyAllen1975 04:39, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Demographics

message: As the discussion page has become unmanagable is there a way of moving, or removing, some amount of the older discussions that have been finished?Apwall21 01:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion History Page?

message: There are multiple places in this article where numbers are used instead of words. Does anyone know if this is appropriate practice? I will look agian, but jeez there are alot of wiki pages...Apwall21 01:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Numeric Symbols instead of Written Numbers

message: Wikipedia has determined the 'Other Facts' Section to be trivia. Therefor, it is appropriate to remove items, by adding them to other parts of the article. It is not appropriate to add to them. If you have an interesting 'factoid' please try to find the appropriate place for it in the text of the article. Apwall21 14:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia Section

message: I've noticed almost every other major city has a cityscape section except Indianapolis. Shouldn't there be one and if so is anyone willing to help create it. Thanks TheHoosierState89 19:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I live downtown.  If I get a chance, I'll take a photo. =David(talk)(contribs) 01:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay thanks for your help. I created the cityscape section, please clean up in any way you feel need. Also, we need to find a way to get a panoramic view. Not sure where we could find one though. TheHoosierState89 04:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cityscape

message: The largest festival held in Indy is the Italian Street Festival, NOT the African-American based festival. Not to mention, it is sourced by the Wiki article itself Italian Street Festival. Perhaps someone could edit it to proper Wiki standards.
Nikki88 23:49, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No it is correct, the Black Expo brings in over 300,000 people from all over the country. In fact the Black Expo is the largest cultural event in the United States. TheHoosierState89 00:00, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the issue is what is considered 'ethnic' or 'cultural'. For simplification and to avoid this becoming a 'how dare you' session, maybe we need to remove the designation of 'ethnic festival' all together? Just leave it at festivals and celebrations? Also, considering the volume of information, could this section be better served as a link to a sub-article entitled 'Festivals of Indianapolis' or similar? apwall21 on 76.251.80.142  —Preceding comment was added at 21:01, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Largest Festival 

message: I'm starting a WikiProject for Indianapolis.  Please add your name to the list of interested editors here.  Thanks!  -JT 02:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added myself, great idea! TheHoosierState89 02:25, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks!  I've got a lot of plans for the Project.  I think we can make it really great.  -JT 18:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject: Indianapolis 

message: I've noticed a lot of other articles archieve their discussion pages. This one is getting very long and if anyone knows how to archieve please do so. A good example would be Atlanta. Thanks -- TheHoosierState89 02:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archieves 

message: Hoosier, I noticed in your edit that you mentioned the idea that Sports do not belong under Culture. 
I would have to say that Sports are a huge part of Culture, and that there is more than a little bit of Cultural biased to sports. For instance, many nations that the UK colonized still play cricket, as baseball just never caught on. If you say Football in Italy you are speaking of, what those of us in the US call, Soccer.
Of course one might argue that sports are not just a past time, but they are also at the same time a mating ritual, rite of passage, and apparatus for social hierarchical placement. Still, these definitions are relevant as issues in relation to cultural understanding, even if there are those who can exploit our cultural enjoyments of competition for large sums of monies. 
I think it is inappropriate to separate the two, not just in relation to Indianapolis, but to any society at any point ever.Apwall21  —Preceding comment was added at 07:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not that I don't think sports isn't a part of culture, because I think it's a large part of culture. But I think sports is a major part of Indianapolis and should have it's own section. TheHoosierState89 22:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are arguing that the former "Amateur Sports Capital of the World" should have sports in a prominent section? It sounds convincing, but however much impact sporting events have on the city, the same could be said for Eli Lilly, Allison Transmissions, Woodruff Place, Hooks Drug Stores, and any number of culturally or economic entities or events. For instance New York; "The New York metropolitan area is the only one in the United States with more than one team in each of the four major sports, with nine such franchises." The New York article does not separate Sports from Culture, despite the fact that you could argue red in the face with, if not millions of, tens of thousands of new yorkers who would tell you Sports is a huge part of New York. Los Angeles, doesn't separate them. Simply, to break the Wikipedia format for our fair city's sports is not useful. May I suggest that you do what the New York City and LA Los Angeles articles have done, and write up a new article on Sports In Indianapolis -- Sports in New York City, Sports in Los Angeles. apwall21 on 76.248.68.130 05:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sports 

message: The map in the infobox is incorrect; the area highlighted is in fact Indianapolis (balance), Indiana. —Random832 21:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: Okay so we've had a couple of issues with this section in recent days. I feel we should limit it to more noticable and larger festivals. If we get specific we'll have to include all the smaller/more local ones and that will get way out of hand. Comments? HoosierState 03:05, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The main problem with the statement that is being re-added is it is written like an advertisement.
I believe the argument about this festival being one-of-a-kind and that it represents such a large population qualifies it for this section.  I also disagree with its wording.  How about dropping the "for more information..." part and making the name of the church a link to the site? Jasssmit (talk) 03:53, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

text: That sounds good to me, I'll do that right now. If anyone objects please express it here before making more changes to it so we can avoid another edit war. HoosierState 03:56, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnic and cultural heritage festivals