Talk:Carlos Santana

message: Hi , you seem to have misunderstood what I was trying to say regarding Santana's nationality. When someone is of Cuban descent, it is written "Cuban American", without a hyphen. When they have dual nationality, a hyphen is inserted, like so: "Cuban-American". Someone of dual nationality isn't Cuban and American, that is unnecessary and clunky. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 18:10, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: No that is the difference between the use as an adjective and a noun phrase. Example "person is a Cuban American", noun phrase, or "Cuban-American person", adjective form. In both cases this is an ethnicity description meaning an American with Cuban ancestry which, of course, includes dual nationals but not exclusively. Using a conjunction removed the ambiguity and makes the dual nationality clear and unambiguous. Also is it correct grammar to use a conjunction between adjectives of similar weight in a description. A test is if you can invert the order of the words and have the same meaning. See the article Mexican American for the meaning. It does not mean the same thing as American Mexican. American and Mexican does mean the exact same thing as Mexican and American though. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:56, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

text: Next section following this goes into lots of details of why the intro and lead is the way it is. If he had had a notable career in Mexico it would be listed in the intro sentence. He didn't, his notable career started in San Francisco. His musical background in Mexico is mentioned appropriately in the second sentence of the lead. See previous discussion in the talk page archive and on this page. We have a Manual of Style. The appropriate section is MOS:CONTEXTBIO. The fact that some other articles don't follow it does not set a precedence for this one to ignore it. Other language wikis have their own rules that don't apply to enwiki. Being a dual national is not being disputed, what is at issue is how he is described in the intro and lead. Geraldo Perez (talk) 06:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to be ignoring important facts and subjectively interpreting the Manual of Style. The Manual does not require a notable career in Mexico, it requires to be relevant for the subject's notability. The training of a musician is definitely relevant. You did not mentioned anything regarding the fact that the Manual of Style explicitly mentions that the preferred nationality by which they identify is important. The opening paragraph also mentions his career in the US, so I don't see why this is a reason for omitting his Mexican nationality. The fact that other articles point out second nationalities, especially for artists and musicians, suggests that this background is relevant for the individual's notoriety. Finally, I want to reiterate that there seems to be a consensus here on what should be considered relevant for subject's notability, yet, you are the only user reverting changes to nationality. Jdar2789 (talk) 06:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Manual of style requires notable activities in country of birth for birth country to be considered for inclusion in intro sentence. When just related to notability a mention in the second sentence of the lead is appropriate and as such it is mentioned there in this article. See example in MOS for Asimov for similar situation. Identification note you linked to is related to how Brits want to be identified for their nationality, not a general statement about self-identification. The fact that other articles don't follow the Manual of style isn't guidance. Consensus in discussions has led to the article the way it was before your edits. My involvement is maintaining the article to conform to the MOS and interacting with people who argue for changes that conflict with it. Article historically rotates between all possible variations of nationality context in intro. Check the discussions in the archives and on this page for background. Geraldo Perez (talk) 07:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to be mistaken in the interpretation of notability for nationality. The manual of style doesn't require notable activities in a given country. Instead, it requires the country to be relevant for subject's notability: Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, neither previous nationalities nor the country of birth should be mentioned in the opening paragraph unless relevant to the subject's notability. Do you agree with this? Jdar2789 (talk) 07:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: MOS:FIRSTBIO talks to what goes in the intro sentence.  That is the reason for "American" and not "Mexican" in the intro sentence. If country of birth is of defining importance per the example at Asimov  which is why Mexico is mentioned in the second sentence. Both countries are mentioned appropriately in the lead. The only point of contention in this discussion and in general is what goes in the intro sentence. Geraldo Perez (talk) 08:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dual nationality 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Carlos Santana's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Grammys":
From Reba McEntire: 
From Bruno Mars: 
From Folklore (Taylor Swift album): 
From The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill: 
From Fearless (Taylor Swift album): 
From List of awards and nominations received by Santana: 
From Alison Krauss: 
From Lauryn Hill: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 23:55, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Carlos Santana]] 

message: title essentially explains it. the vast majourity of individuals with nicknames in, well, any field or profession, have their nickname included in the lede. i'm confused why it hasn't been included for santana, and i would rather bring the matter here than trample on some sorta consensus and shit Ayyydoc (talk) 23:36, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't seem to be commonly used. It is mentioned in the article but doesn't seem lead worthy. Geraldo Perez (talk) 00:16, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  including 'devadip' in the lede. 

message: Brother jorge santana of grupo malo famos song such as suavesito passed away 2016 2600:6C51:667F:F276:E0F7:788B:74F6:67E3 (talk) 08:32, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carlos santana