Talk:Ludwig Wittgenstein/Archive 4

message: :::Regarding LW, he never admitted to being homosexual. Not one of his friends or acquaintances ever publicly stated that he engaged in any such acts. In plain English, such an attribution has never been proven at all. Regarding your naïve ideas about the transmission of AIDS, it is only transmitted by direct injection into the bloodstream. This rules out vaginal intercourse. That is why it can be transmitted by tatooing or by the use of hypodermic needles. Your assertions are dangerous and irresponsible.Lestrade 14:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I agree in principle that claims for which one can't find written sources should be excluded from the encyclopedia since they involve original research (and I'm not saying anything about the present debate, since I don't know enough about what written sources are available), the fact remains that Wittgenstein was homosexual whether or not that belongs in an encyclopedia. I knew a man, a notable scholar of good reputation, who knew G.E.M. Anscombe and Peter Geach personally, both of whom were good personal friends of Wittgenstein, and he had no doubt whatsoever that Wittgenstein was gay; he even stated it in an introduction to a translation of one of Wittgenstein's books. I believe him, whatever his sources were. But you seem to be in need of an education about Aids; it most certainly can be transmitted through vaginal intercourse. Read up on it. Or talk to a doctor. --D. Webb 15:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes Lestrade, you're right. But you forgot to add that only people with the poof gene can catch it. That is, a woman can get it through vaginal intercourse but only if; A) she shags a man with the poof gene; b) she herself has the female version of the poof gene; and c) both are psychologically under 25. Please correct me if I'm wrong here Lestrade, because as everbody knows the poof gene wears off by about this age and poofs stop being poofs (even women poofs although I think it's about 23 years for them)and become normal people. Except for those poofs that stay poofs by remaining under 25 years old (23 for women) for their whole lives.  Davkal 15:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I wasn't offering this as a proof. If I were, then I would simply add it to the article. You can get off your high horse too, pretending to be the only one who cares about verification. Did you not read what I wrote? I do agree that information that cannot be found in written documents should be excluded. However, I am not absolutely certain that no written documents exist indicating W's homosexuality. Others, more knowledgable than I, will have to dig that up. What you took as a proposed proof was merely my own personal reason for believing the claim. Hearsay and rumour of unknown origin, while inadmissible as evidence here, need not necessarily be incorrect. It isn't even clear to me that this information is ultemately based solely on hearsay. Who knows whether Anscombe, W's iterary executive, had access to written documents proving the claim? And I won't insist that the written documents come from W's own pen. I seem to recall Bertrand Russell confirming it too somewhere, but can't remember where. Of course you will say that since Russell - if he did say that W. was homosexual, isn't reliable since he would be basing it on a conversation he personally had with Wittgenstein. But if W's mentor, friend, and benefactor claims to have been told by W. that he was gay, then that isn't just any other rumour. And if other, equally reliable sources, agree, then I would say we had a reason to believe that W. was homosexual. I also seem to remember Ray Monk's excellent biography of Wittgenstein discussing his homosexuality, but it has been a long time since I read it and so I no longer recall where he said this nor did I check his sources. But the book got outstanding reviews and is thought to be quite reliable. Perhaps someone could find out whether Monk does include discussion of W's homosexuality and what is sources were? --D. Webb 17:01, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In Monk's book, p. 376, LW is supposed to have written about Francis Skinner, that he "… Lay with him two or three times (Zwei oder dreimal mit ihm gelegen)." This is cited as coming from Manuscript 118 of LW's papers. Monk calls these remarks "coded," as though they have an unusual  or idiosyncratic meaning.Lestrade 19:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's at least an indication. Now, taken together with reports from his friends, it would seem to indicate that the reports of his homosexuality are not merely hearsay. --D. Webb 22:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  D. Webb et. al (Thread 2)