Talk:List of U.S. states that were never U.S. territories

message: In Re: "They declared independence from Britain on 4 July 1776 and were formally thirteen independent countries until ratification of the first American constitution, the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, proposed in 1777, completed in 1781; whereupon the "United States of America" legally came into existence."
There is considerable evidence that the "United States" preceded and did not follow the ratification of the the Articles of Confederation. Although some of the original 13 States declared independence from Great Britain, most did not, holding that the collective Declaration of Independence issued by the Continental Congress had effectively declared national independence. 
The Declaration of Independence was not adopted by the individual States but adopted by the Congress FOR the United States. This act took place in 1776 prior to the adoption of the Articles of Confederation. The Declaration expressly declares that the representatives were acting on behalf of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. Contrary to the statement in the Wikipedia entry, the US of A existed prior to the Articles of Confederation.
There were various discussions within the Continental Congress, prior to the ratification of the Articles of Confederation, in which Congress acted as the legislative assembly for the Nation. At one point, the Congress discussed issuing orders to the various States instructing them to abolish the existing colonial governments and establish new State governments under the authority of the Continental Congress.
It is also relevant here to mention that the Articles of Confederation was not the first Constitution of the United States. Prior to their adoption, the Continental Congress and the United States were governed under certain "Articles of Association".
President Abraham Lincoln spoke of the origin of the Nation in his Inaugural address stating, "The Union is much older than the Constitution. It was formed, in fact, by the Articles of Association in 1774. It was matured and continued by the Declaration of Independence in 1776. It was further matured ... by the Articles of Confederation in 1778. And finally, in 1787, one of the declared objects for ordaining and establishing the Constitution was "to form a more perfect Union."
LAWinans (talk) 20:30, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  National Independence or State Independence 

message: There's an inconsistency: While California is shown on the map it is omitted in the list. I do not know what is right, but both information pieces should match. Tomeasy (talk) 17:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ehm. Seems I just missed it. Tomeasytalk 09:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map vs List 

message: I don't think current description has it right:
Congress granted statehood to West Virginia unilaterally, in 1863.
Congress could not Constitutionally do this, as it didn't recognize the legitimacy of Virginia's secession.  I think what happened is that the representatives of the counties that would become W. Virginia -- which by 1863 were under de facto Union control -- declared themselves to be the legitimate government of the state of Virginia, which Congress recognized; as such, they gave their assent to division of Virginia, then immediately reconvened as the new government of W. Virginia.  Kind of confusing, and not really in the spirit of the Constitutional provision, but technically Virginia did agree to the creation of W. Virginia. 
This is just off the top of my head; I will try to find some sources on it. --Jfruh (talk) 00:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless of how it happened, it's clear that it was extra-constitutional, as were many things that transpired during the Civil War.    The Constitution clearly required that Congress gain the agreement of the Virginia legislature to split off WV, and (understandably) they did not.  Don't misunderstand me, I shed no tears for Virginia's loss—the kid who bloodies the referee's nose should not expect to get any sympathetic calls on the field from same official. Unschool (talk) 14:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, but that's the trick.  See, the legislators from that part of Virginia under Union control in 1863 convened and declared that they were the legislature of Virginia, on the logic that by voting to seceede the other legislators had committed treason and given up their rights to office, which the Congress recognized.  The rump legislature then voted that a new state (which happened to occupy the exact same area that they represented) would be created out of Virginia.  So, technically, from the point of view of Congress, the Virginia legislature did give its permission.  The fact that this "Virginia Legislature" didn't represent or control the whole state made the whole thing highly irregular, but by some willful blindness the letter of the Constitution was followed. --Jfruh (talk) 17:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  W. Virginia 

message: It could be said that colonies are or are not territories, but the ambiguity there is too great. Clarifying that this article is only talking about U.S Territories would help avoid that ambiguity. Spinach Monster (talk) 16:59, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div>
Footnotes for Delaware and Maine suggested?
Delaware wasn't a US territory but it could've been and was briefly considered a territory of Pennsylvania.
Maine in the same situation with Massachusetts.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srt1968 (talk • contribs) 20:00, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move