Talk:Coatbridge

message: I've taken the Wikipedia guideline to be bold to heart.
I've lurked around the Coatbridge article for a long time and thought it needed tidying up. In the past, I've made a couple of edits, but, mostly, I seemed to be undoing vandals' contributions.
A couple of months ago, Neilston made featured article. I'm not saying featured article should be a target, but it gave a useful template to copy. That's where most of the work came from.
Please read the Wikipedia Five Pillars.
Of particular relevance are the Wikipedia article on NOTABILITY and the Wikipedia article on citing SOURCES.
I've done the following:
*split the previous Coatbridge article into 12 sections;
*added some of the Coatbridge versions of the Neilston information, paying attention to cite relevant sources;
*removed some information that I thought wasn't notable enough or didn't cite sources (sorry);
*added some pictures.
However, I don't own this article. I'm not an administrator. Other people will know much more about Coatbridge than I do, or be able to take better pictures of the town centre or Cliftonhill (from the top of 20px|Jackson Court, for example), or know more about the railways, past and present, that pass through, or know more about it's pre-industrial/industrial/post-industrial past, etc. So, please contribute.
For edits yet to be done, I've noted a few comments beside each of the sections, below, but they're just my thoughts.
Intro - As I've split most of the original intro into more relevant sections, a suitable intro needs to be rewritten. Does anyone know how to write Gaelic pronunciations?
#History - almost everything needs a source, but the one I've provided the link has some good info.
#Governance - mostly complete.
#Geography - a description of the lie of the land/soil types, etc, would be good. As Coatbridge was extensively mined, this should be available somewhere.
#Demography - mostly complete.
#Economy - if this section could include past industry, it should be one of the largest sections. Also, surely Coatbridge has more to offer today than shopping centres? Do Tannoy still manufacture? Do they do any R&D?
#Landmarks - Summerlee is about to reopen. Possibly a description and link to its own page (it should be notable enough).
#Transport - needs something on past stations/trams/disused railway lines.
#Education - some of the current text has been copied from the College website. Surely somebody knows something about education in the area?
#Sports - Drumpellier Park seems to host yearly 5k or 10k races. Various boxing/tae-kwan-do competitions are held in the Time Capsule. Who organises these events? How often? How popular are they?
#Public services - mostly complete.
#Notable people - are we really happy all these people are notable?
#References - not done.
#External links - not done.
Come on, Coatbridge! Let's raise our game! Just look at the Airdrie article.
(For the people who have spent time typing information into Wikipedia, you can still recover your words by clicking on the Coatbridge History tab at the top of the article. It could then be cut and pasted onto a more appropriate website.)
--ML5 (talk) 00:13, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Hey! What's happened to this article?

message: The Caledonian Railway and North British Railway, with their respective predecessor companies had interests in Coatbridge.
* Caledonian Railway
::Caledonian Railway Main Line
::Garnkirk and Glasgow Railway
::Rutherglen and Coatbridge Railway
::Wishaw and Coltness Railway
* North British Railway
::Ballochney Railway
::Bathgate and Coatbridge Railway
::Coatbridge Branch (NBR)
::Monkland and Kirkintilloch Railway
::Monkland Railways
::North Monkland Railway (RAILSCOT on North Monkland Railway)
Not all these lines have articles and/or route maps (yet!!!). --Stewart (talk) 20:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transport - Historic Railway Lines 

message: Recent edits have highlighted Coatbridge's connection to Ireland. I believe there are connections, but they should not be overstated. Glasgow, Liverpool, London, New York and Boston all have links to Ireland, but mainly of historical interest. As the 2001 census found, there are less Irish people in Coatbridge than the Scottish average.
Also, nobody uses the phrases "Little Ireland" or "The Vatican" as nicknames for Coatbridge. If somebody said "I came frae C-brigg", I would know that Coatbridge is being referred to. But, again, nobody uses "C-brigg" as a nickname for Coatbridge.
Further problems can happen with circular references. Some facts are referenced from newspapers. Look back in the Wikipedia article's history to mid-2006. I'm not saying who copied who back then, but some of the text is a bit suspicious.
Finally, the content should be encyclopaedic. Wikipedia is not meant to be a store of every piece of information relating to a subject.
This isn't meant to be a rebuke, more of a summary of guidance notes.--ML5 (talk) 14:29, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Coatbridge's connection to Ireland

message: I'm still unhappy about how this article has recently overstated the modern-day links between Coatbridge and Ireland. Newspapers, TV and "common knowledge" are often used to justify the links, without anyone trying to find evidence. The past links are well known, with many sources to back them up, but are they really notable? There could be many villages or towns in the West of Scotland that could claim very high levels of Irish immigration, not forgetting Glasgow itself. With the exception of post-WWII English and Asian immigrants, I could believe almost everyone in the West of Scotland has some Irish heritage.
One way of finding out how people regard their roots is through their view of their own ethnicity (this is different from nationality). This was asked in the 2001 Census. A copy of the form can be viewed here: http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files/indform.pdf. Basically, (white) people were asked "What is your ethnic group?", with the following tick-box choices:
[  ] Scottish
[  ] Other British
[  ] Irish
[  ] Any other White background
The General Register Office doesn't publish these results, but they're not secret. Ask them a general question and they'll give you a general answer. So, that's what I did (at http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/contacts/contact-form.html).
From: ML5
Sent: 05 February 2009 16:42
To: GROS Customer
Subject: Ethnicity and religion in Coatbridge
I've read on the internet that up to 80% of the population of Coatbridge consider
themselves to be of Irish decent and most are Catholic. As Coatbridge is a town
large enough for disclosure of this information not to identify people, can I see
the statistics?
Thanks.
   From: xyz@gro-scotland.gsi.gov.uk
   Sent: 06 February 2009 08:30
   To: abc
   Subject: RE: Ethnicity and religion in Coatbridge
   ML5,
   The population of Coatbridge at the 2001 Census was 41,170 of which 21,507 gave
   their current religion as Roman Catholic. We have no information regarding your
   question on Irish decent. However 1.4% of the population of Coatbridge regarded
   themselves as being White Irish.
   Regards
   xyz
As original research is a Wikipedia no-no, I'm not going to quote these figures on the article.
There's two points here:
(1) 21,507 out of 41,170 is 52%. This is a huge percentage to be Catholic. I could believe that no other town or city in Scotland, even on mainland UK, comes close.
(2) 1.4% consider their ethnic background as "White Irish". I've lived in Coatbridge for a long time and that figure seems right. The GRO publishes a figure of 0.32% for nationals of the Republic of Ireland. So, around 1% of Coatbridge (who aren't Irish nationals) think of themselves to be ethnically Irish, not Scottish.
So, just because your pal's wee sister is forever attending feiseanna and some bloke across the road from your granny's house drapes a tricolour out of his bedroom window every mid-July, doesn't mean Coatbridge is dominated by a sense of Irishness.
I think we need to revert some parts of the article; I may need help.--ML5 (talk) 16:36, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The only axe I'm trying to grind is the one about articles being notable and verifiable. If references could be found showing Coatbridge has significantly higher rates ("in marked contrast") of kids learning Irish dance, supporting Celtic, learning Gaelic or attending church (I've almost helped with this one), then Irish culture is indeed alive, well and notable in Coatbridge. Anecdotally, I could provide quite a few similar examples to the two I've already given, but these wouldn't count. Annoyingly, many books/newspaper/TV articles seem to fall into this trap: it's lazy, and likely to get things wrong. As an example of this, I was very surprised at the 1.4% answer to the ethnicity question - I would have guessed ten times that.--ML5 (talk) 22:13, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Over the next week I'll do a few redrafts on the page with some alterations to the stuff we've been talking about and then we can perhaps resume this conversation. Cheers Jayhoolihan (talk) 21:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Great! That's the Wikipedia way! Although you might (wrongly) suspect an agenda/background on my part, I'm just trying to be as neutral as possible. For your redraft, I'll concede that "Little Ireland" is sometimes (rightly or wrongly) used as a metaphor for Coatbridge, not a nickname - although, Buckfast City is more common (I'd leave that one out).--ML5 (talk) 23:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that ML5, hopefully by next weekend this bit of the article will be sorted.  Looking at other town articles has helped me get a much better idea of the criteria and standards required. Jayhoolihan (talk) 23:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I am an Englishman and previous inhabitant of Coatbridge. I think there is a very strong sense of Irishness in Coatbridge. I was born in an northern English town, often labelled as Little Ireland and also dominated 2-5th generation Irish (due to a similar mining heritage). The contrasts between my home town and Coatbridge (where I lived from 2002-2007) where quite stark. While my home-town has largerly drifted away from it's Irish heritage, Coatbridge seems to positively embrace it. From their St Patrick Day festivities, right through to the regualr Orange marches. It felt much more Irish then any other parts of the west of Scotland that I am familiar with. Of course the whole Irish heritage thing is widespread in Ayrshire & Strathclyde. Not sure if that adds anything to the debate, but i thought a 3rd slightly different perspective might be useful in shaping the section. The fact that a Coatbridge Irish page exists is an indication of how Irish the town is. It's all rather difficult to quantify without it coming across as original research.--Footix2 (talk) 12:06, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Coatbridge's connection to Ireland - Update

message: I've taken the liberty of redrafting and rearranging the cultural section. I'm not sure about how well it works from an aesthetic point of view. If people don't think it works it could be taken back to the original. It makes me wonder though about some of those included on the list of notable people - Bob Crampsey seems a bit tenuous. I don't think Gerry Creaney and Chris Iwelumo are noteworthy enough. Perhaps John Reid and Helen Liddell could be rolled together?
If no one objects I'll amend the list and also remove Donovan, Dillon etc who are now mentioned elsewhere in the main article. Cheers.
Jayhoolihan (talk) 23:26, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable people/Cultural section 

message: I'm suggesting the following areas for further improving the article:
Education – needs some discussion about new built schools. 
History – 20 & 21st century narrative needs expanded - perhaps monklandsgate should come out of governance sectionn and go here. Generally photos for history section could be rejigged and improved on. 
Local government – section is massive and needs edited down. 
Demography – section seems messy and in need of re-editing.
Sports – section seems bitty and needs redone. Photo of cricket ground might be good. 
Landmarks – this section needs reworked with at least one additional photo. Section may be too large in need of being edited down; albiet with creation of a new article on local landmarks allowing fuller discussion etc
Economy – Needs some expansion, perhaps with some discussion of unemployment figures in town.
References – need properly wikified. 
I also think a few new sections are needed:
Religion needs it‘s own separate section and also need a brief media subsection within culture section with description of past newspapers and of current local "publication".
Jayhoolihan (talk) 21:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not also have a look at some of the articles in :Category:FA-Class UK geography articles. Having got to GA-level you can compare Coatbridge against some of these articles and see what is under-represented in Coatbridge. Pyrotec (talk) 13:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future improvements 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080720062704/http://www.buildingtalk.com/news/pie/pie000.html to http://www.buildingtalk.com/news/pie/pie000.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090318172408/http://cci.scot.nhs.uk/planning/seiru/seiruDocs/PPA_320_099.pdf to http://cci.scot.nhs.uk/planning/seiru/seiruDocs/PPA_320_099.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Substituted at 11:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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