Talk:Player versus player

message: this was totally wrong so I changed it to reflect what the actual situation was.  not all players but newer/casual players and developers looking to draw in larger crowds, when Pvp/pking stopped being the norm alot of MMORPG players just stopped playing them because PvE is just plain boring.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.80.248 (talk) 20:20, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: pvp as a negative

message: What's the reasoning behind having PvM/PvE redirect here? As the article says, PvE is the "antithesis" of PvP, so I don't think it makes much sense. Can we move it? --RayaruB 18:35, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: PvE/PvM

message: Someone needs to rephrase that whole part there, or it should go.  It sonds very stilted and bizarre. --24.107.17.100 22:03, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Gay"

message: I added a Guild Wars article outline its pvp system along with the other outlines from ther games.--68.192.188.142 23:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guild Wars 

message: I think the article needs to be broken down into game genres, FPS, MUD's, RPG's and MMORPG's, etc. and looked at in the context of how PvP started in each genre and refine a single definition to each.
From an MMORPG point of view, I would not call Guild Wars, World of Warcraft or Dark Age of Camelot as PvP games from a straight definition of the term.  Games like Ultima Online and Asheron's Call defined what PvP should refer to when it comes to the MMORPG genre.  i.e. anything team based (teams determined by the games developer)  defeats the entire purpose of an MMORPG and falls more in line with an RPG that just 'happens' to be on-line.  Interpersonal relationships and resulting actions (both good and bad) form probabily more then 50% of what defines PvP in the MMORPG genre in my opinion.
-- I do not think you are entirely correct. Ultima Online and Asherons were popular formats but now are obsolete mmorpgs. PvP isn't just about griefing anymore. Today it has evolved into a much richer environment of real tiem chess against human opponents. The new shards in Ultima could offer the same richness but not in their original format. Team pvp nowadays is like a modern sports tournament and deserves to be mentioned as such in a PvP article.
-- I get really discouraged when people refer to 'obsolete' game PvP implementions being solely about griefing.  Yes, griefing can and did happen.  But once you joined a decent guild and earned your reputation and following, it was much more enjoyable then the premade team PvP that goes on in todays MMORPG's.  You call it richer, and I would say its extremely dumbed down.. I mean really dumbed down.  Comparing it to chess is something I find laughable.  You end up fighting who the developers tell you to fight, what you have to fight over and who you have to fight with and what the rewards will be.. it seems extremely spoon fed if you ask me.  I just want a developer to have the guts to put community resposibilty back in the hands of players and then problems like gold farming, power leveling and such will pretty much go away.. it seems kinda childish to put all that responsibility on the game developers.  The entire origin of MMORPG's centered around a virtual world where the players would have an impact.. sadly those days seem to be gone due to the immaturity of this instant gratification based generation of players. -- [unknown]
:Breaking it down might be a good idea, although you probably only need two catagories: RPG and everything else.  In an RPG, "going online" is assumed to be co-op mode unless you specify "PvP", which is players fighting each other and is the exception.  Even MMORPGs that advertise themselves as a PvP game (such as Lineage II) still have a great deal of PvE content and that's still what most players spend most of their time doing.  The point is that "PvP" as a label really only exists in the RPG world and points out an exception case for that genre.  You could apply the "PvP" to anything from Pong to Quake to basketball but I'd challenge you to go find a source that does.  In those games, PvP is implied when more than 1 player is involved and does not need to be specified. --TheCynic (talk) 02:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lacks a historical perspect and is too inclusive 

message: 'Team-killing' redirects to this page. Without getting into the debate above about who invented what term and so on, 'team-killing' is heard almost entirely in FPS games, in which the term PvP is almost never used. Team-killing is distinct from PvP, being defined more like: 'the deliberate or accidental killing of an ally'. I don't feel that this article describes TKing at all, and I don't think that TKing belongs in an article about PvP, so I'm removing the redirect and putting in a stub. PvP is used to distinguish from PvE etc in MMO context. In FPS, the terminology used includes deathmatch, team deathmatch, co-op, etc. The concepts are related but not overlapping. 121.45.48.125 (talk) 10:54, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Team-killing Redirect 

message: There is only one properly sourced paragraph in this article. 
*On August 4, 2005, the Chinese government announced a ban on all "violent" MMORPG play for minors (under 18).  Chinese officials defined "violent" as any game that involves player vs. player combat.  This new policy is part of a crackdown on pornographic, violent, gambling and superstitious content on the internet and mobile phone networks in an effort to create a so-called "healthy online environment".China bans MMORPG play for minors
Does anyone object if I delete the rest? If so, please provide reliable sources for it.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 23:21, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be more productive to try to find sources for the rest of the info, and only delete what you can't find any for. There is a lot of contentious stuff in there, though, so WP:Be bold in deleting where need be. Haipa Doragon • (contributions) 01:10, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This isn't a topic with which I'm familiar (I've played a few of these games, that's about it). I have no idea where we would find reliable sources talking about it. It appears to me that none were consulted in the writing of this article, and that it's all taken from the personal experience of editors. Ideally, editors start with sources rather than try and find sources for what they've already written. As we all know, unsourced material may be removed at any time. OTOH, unsourced material that isn't deleted rarely gets sourced since there is little impetus for editors to go out and find them. I found this article because it's had a  tag on it since April 2007. Only a couple of articles have had POV disputes for that long. Clearly, this article has problems and no editors are spending time fixing them. At some point it's better to start from scratch.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 19:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the article as it stands is a really wonky: It's defined as "competitive interaction.. between two or more live participants" which really ought to make the article's scope "any multiplayer game that is not Cooperative gameplay." But the article only pays minimal attention to anything that isn't an MMORPG. It's claimed as having origins in 1988 MUDs, but really it should go as far back as Spacewar! I think a complete rewrite is needed to get the article back on track, and if per-genre considerations are desired (for example, the current article is really "PvP in MMORPGs"), those can come later. Nifboy (talk) 00:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever it requires, please fix it. Be bold. Isn't that the PvP way?  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 10:58, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

text: No, my friend, I hardly think that a article requiring neutrality and rewrites is an ideal forum for such data.  Raisedonadiet (talk) 22:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok for the sake of 'neutrality' how about I gank the shit out of lowbies and then let some nub kill me, I'll send screenshots of both. After that maybe I'll go back and corspe camp the faygot again. Zul poooons !!! 195.229.241.171 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment was added at 08:32, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsourced

message: I'm sorry to point out the obvious, but the "Darkfall Online" section is clearly irrelevant and means of propaganda. I'm quite sure Wikipedia does not accept this kind of thing. It should be deleted.
201.91.60.209 (talk) 18:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marketing 

message: Reading through the article, it looks like there's a lot of WP:OR and WP:UNDUE issues.  Some time this week I'm gonna go through line by line and delete some of the worst offenses, I think. AzureFury  (talk | contribs) 19:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: As far as I am concerned, wikipedia names articles based on the most commonly used formal title. I am of the belief that "PvP" is referred to considerably more than it's longer title and the article name should be changed accordingly. I will leave it to someone else to tag the page as having a rename discussion.
Obviously this will inflict on the webcomic "PvP" article, but that could always be renamed "PvP_(webcomic)" accordingly.
Let me know your thoughts, thanks. JoshuaMiller0 (talk) 11:13, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename - "PvP" or "Player versus player"? 

message: Technically, if PvP is where player fights another player, then Space Wars would be the first PvP game.  Thanks, Marasama (talk) 00:19, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Technically 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: WWE
Yegz 2600:1700:7B80:9230:4170:429A:AFD3:480A (talk) 00:29, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phone