Talk:Livonia, Michigan

message: I think it is noteworthy to add that Livonia became the residential area it is today because so many houses were built after World War 2.
It seems like this article goes to too much length to point out how white the city is.  The racial demographics are only notable because the city has barely 100,000 residents (probably not as of 2005 anyways).  At any rate we probably don't need 3 or 4 sentences to say what could be said in one.
"Livonia has received some attention..." for its large Caucasian population.  What sort of attention, and from whom?   And what constitutes "noteworthy attention"?  This section should be expanded/cited or deleted. 
Every so often, newspapers or TV news in the Detroit area will point out that Livonia is the "whitest city in America," and that places like Detroit and Wayne are predominantly Black.  Honestly, however, this always seems like comparing apples to oranges.  Livonia isn't a city in the same sense that Detroit is.  Livonia is a suburb like the Grosse Pointes and Bloomfield Hills (also very white areas, but with lower populations). --messor 17:23, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is only notable because of the degree of the racial divide, and how incredibly stark it is, and the size of both Livonia and Detroit.  We're not talking some tiny ethnic enclaves.  We're talking a city of both size physically and population wise that managed to maintain a 90%+ caucasian population through its incredible decades long population boom.  That is unusual and thus noteworthy.  Unusual because for a large city as safe and decent as Livonia it is nearly unheard of for it not to attract a significant racial diversity.  You'd think for all of its positives that it would have attracted people of all racial backgrounds, wouldn't you?  And, especially since a huge amount of Detroit's black middle class has left the city, too.  Why hasn't Livonia with all of its positives attracted even a tiny fractions of these middle income families?  It is more definitely noteworthy, whether you like the connotations of such a fact or not is completely irrelevant. --Criticalthinker 10:57, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless of the truth in what it implies, it is not neutral if it is in the passive voice without citations.  The demographics section clearly identifies the population statistics.  If the people or government of Livonia have been systematically or deliberately controlling their population, this fact should get its own section with citations presented.  A vague statement of the city receiving "some attention" is inappropriate.  "Livonia is the US city with the highest percentage of Caucasian residents among cities with 100,000 or more residents" is true (as of Census 2000) and perhaps noteworthy alone, but infixing "has received some attention" into this simple factual statement is a deliberate attempt to suggest suspicion.Mal7798 21:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if that's the case, why not simply delete what you see as the subjective part instead of deleting the whole thing?  I'll find a citation for you. --Criticalthinker 08:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no need for an entire heading specifically on racism in Livonia.  If these facts must be included, they should be included elsewhere.  And saying that there is little racism in Livonia today is, I think, more than a little presumptuous. Primeromundo 01:35, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Racism is literally the only thing Livonia is known for, though. Without its racist reputation, Livonia wouldn't even warrant a Wikipedia article. --68.58.181.206 (talk) 20:51, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

text: No one ever denied racism in Livonia.  It does exist.  However, I do not believe that it is the whole reason behind the "whitest city in America" statistic.messor (talk) 18:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: History and demographics

message: There seems to be alot of vandalism attributed to one single IP, is there any way to block it without locking down the entire page? BT14 05:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the article is still unprotected.  Only an administrator can protect the article.  The semi-protect tag at the top of the article does nothing.  You need to make a request for protection if you want to semi-protect the article. I have removed the semi-protect tag. --Coaster1983 14:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: This section just seems like blatant advertising...there is no doubt that Bates, Han-D-Dip, and Senate are recognizable Livonia icons, but the part about first day of summer is when Han-D-Dip opens is stretching the truth.....maybe a simple list of Livonia Icons would be better here
 
:I agree. It's almost tempting to rewrite the whole section. It doesn't seem the slightest bit encyclopedic; it sounds like a tourism guide Jay42 19:01, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Food 

message: I'm sorry, but the random name of a porn actress who happened to graduate high school and didn't actually grow up in Livonia is not worthy of mention here. Does not fit the requirement for notable people as per wikipedia guidlines. BT14 (talk) 20:58, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I can find nothing that states where she grew up, it seems she was born in Livonia and graduated from Stevenson... it's a leap to proclaim she didn't grow up in Livoina. --MichiganCharms (talk) 04:48, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: She may have graduated there, but only attended her senior there. There is too much conflicting information on the web about where she was born, some say Redford, Detroit, etc. but one thing is for sure, it wasn't Livonia. BT14 (talk) 08:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Dani Woodward]]

message: Are we sure that the name wasn't chosen after Livonia, New York?  Many Michigan places names are actually names of places in New York State (where many of the state's original settlers came from), which are named for places in Europe.  So, are we sure that Livonia isn't named after the village and township in New York which itself named after the region in Europe?  Anyone know Livonia's early history? --Criticalthinker (talk) 12:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added some sources connecting it to the place in New York. older ≠ wiser 13:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin of Name

message: This is from the Warren, Michigan article.  I don't know if it's true.  "Another Detroit suburb Livonia, held the distinction of being America's "whitest city" as of the 2000 Census."  Since I don't know its truth and don't have a source, I'm not putting it in, but maybe somebody else would like to follow up.  7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:59, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Whitest city

message: The first sentence says it is a city, while the second sentence says it is a very large suburb. These are quite different things. Perhaps it should read that it has a very large suburb. Chris the speller (talk) 21:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  City or suburb? 

message: * http://www.jassem.org/JASSEM/JASSEM%20CHAPTER%20DOCUMENTS.pdf - http://www.webcitation.org/6Nnmsvdji - Chapter documents
** jassem.org seems to be the old domain for the school - See http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://jassem.org and http://web.archive.org/web/20130926064034/http://www.jassem.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=3
* http://www.hinoki-school.org/board/transparency/78307%20JASSEM%200612%20Final.pdf - http://www.webcitation.org/6Nnmx1uNB - Japanese American School of South East Michigan d/b/a/ Hinoki International School - Financial Report with Supplemental Information June 30, 2012
* http://annemhooghart-educationalleader.weebly.com/uploads/1/7/6/8/17684325/2012-13hinokihandbookv02eng.pdf - Parent Handbook (English) - http://www.webcitation.org/6Nnn9FOEF
* http://annemhooghart-educationalleader.weebly.com/uploads/1/7/6/8/17684325/hinokischoolboardmtgminutes_2011-7-11.pdf - 
* http://files.meetup.com/86856/HINOKI%20in%20Metro%20Parent.pdf - ????
WhisperToMe (talk) 16:59, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hinoki International School/JASSEM documents 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Please add the Livonia Symphony Orchestra under Arts and Culture. Reference: http://www.livonia.org/list/member/livonia-symphony-orchestra-livonia-1975
Please add Environmental Sculpture by Andrea Blum under Arts and Culture. Reference: https://books.google.com/books?id=DLqZKaoCLtUC&pg=PA238&lpg=PA238&dq=Environmental+Sculpture+andrea+blum&source=bl&ots=0krGvEwAKL&sig=a5eW4EaBc2dTEzn2WFjZLTxtqUA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwir5Jy17ojeAhVn9IMKHVLUBUcQ6AEwCXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=Environmental%20Sculpture%20andrea%20blum&f=false Ab uno ad omnes (talk) 16:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2018 

message: Hello peers,
I have attempted to change our "Government" section to "Law and government" and add crime statistics into that category. I believe that this will allow the page to be more informational to any viewers that are looking for information on crime in Livonia. All information that I have collected is straight from the FBI. The following is what I would like to add:
"In 2017, the FBI reported one violent crime for every 867 residents and one burglary for every 567 residents. On average there is one property crime for every 65 residents and one non-violent theft for every 82 residents. There is a negligible annual murder rate in recent years with the last homicide taking place in 20152017 Michigan Offenses Known to Law Enforcement ."
Again, I would like to insist again that this addition would allow the page to have an addition of greatly valued information.
Thank you all, Ppizzo278 (talk) 00:43, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: , hey there! According to this news report Livonia experienced a  in property crimes since 2013 per the recent statistics published by the FBI. My concern in this case would be that by including those statistics we might be placing an undue weight on the propensity for crime when reliable secondary sources are mentioning the opposite. Would there be some way to incorporate the aforementioned source into your proposed language? All the best! :) –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 01:03, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

text: Of course! The more reliable sources the better! How about this:
""Since 2013, the FBI has reported a 26% decrease in property crimes and a 27% decrease in violent crimes. As of 2017, reports have shown one violent crime for every 867 residents and one burglary for every 567 residents. On average there is one property crime for every 65 residents and one non-violent theft for every 82 residents. There is a negligible annual murder rate in recent years with the last homicide taking place in 20152017 Michigan Offenses Known to Law Enforcement ."
Thank you for the feedback!Ppizzo278 (talk) 01:31, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is why we require secondary sources. John from Idegon (talk) 01:10, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

text: "Crime" is not a standard section for a US settlement per WP:USCITY. It's allowed of course, but the only reason I can see for it is for major cities like Detroit, Chicago, or LA; or if crime were a major factor in a city's history (eg Gary, Indiana, East St. Louis, Illinois or Compton, California). Neither applies to Livonia. John from Idegon (talk) 01:19, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

text: Crime has been a large part in Livonia's southside and eastside. Any city resident would fully agree that crime deserves at least mention in this article at least, as I'm sure more would argue that it have it's own page entirely. Ppizzo278 (talk) 01:36, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Which would be significant if this article was for the city; it's not. It's about the city and the target audience is the world. It also isn't a newspaper. Reporting on recent trends is what newspapers do, not encyclopedias. I still oppose including a  crime section completely. John from Idegon (talk) 01:51, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm inclined to agree with that assessment, but it does seem crime is a major factor in the city's history for this case. https://www.hometownlife.com/story/news/local/farmington-hills/2019/04/16/livonia-police-report-another-round-car-related-crimes/3443533002/ Obviously, any community is going to have crime reports, but I guess Metro Detroit as a whole has had its issues.  –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 01:52, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

text: I agree that crime is more a Metro issue than a local one. I'm not even sure if we have a crime section in the Metro article.  But again, every city has crime. Citing  recent FBI stats, or even journalism sources violates WP:RECENT. Are there any sources that discuss long term trends? If there are, that might be encyclopedic as long as WP:WEIGHT is followed. John from Idegon (talk) 01:59, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing on Livonia specifically (just did a bunch of digging), so we could just hatnote it with  and write something up for Metro Detroit. , would that be okay with you? By having it in a hatnote will be able to find the information with accessibility, but it avoids making the content appear to be a Livonia-exclusive problem. –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 02:18, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Government Section Overhaul 

message: Ladywood has since shut down so I think that should be mentioned. The school was given to Madonna University for their own use.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumeliano-Lemlar (talk • contribs) 06:32, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you provide a link to a reliable source that verifies what you just wrote? Otherwise, it does not belong on Wikipedia. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:40, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  High Schools 

message: Torey Krug should be added to the notable people. 209.148.78.11 (talk) 17:56, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:01, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2021 

message: Add Drake Ficara to notable people from Livonia, an actor known for movies like Sad Gun and Tenure (source: IMDb) 68.49.69.108 (talk) 15:24, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: No article about Ficara. See Wikipedia:Write the article first Cannolis (talk) 18:16, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2021 

message: Livonia Michigan was founded and named by settlers who named their town in New York state after the Livonia provence in Russia. They moved to Michigan, taking their town name with them. 2600:1005:B022:9D97:8885:FC3D:231E:7E3C (talk) 21:25, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 22:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2023 

message: Under "colleges and universities," I'd like to add the sentence "Davenport University left the city in 2017. Gimp1616 (talk) 14:05, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Elli (talk | contribs) 07:13, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2023 

message: The “goverment” section doesn’t reflect the latest round of redistricting, where the City of Livonia was moved from MI-11 to MI-12, represented by Rashida Tlaib. Stonetire55 (talk) 14:16, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Government section