Talk:Shiloh Shepherd dog/Archive 9

message: For the record, in Archive 3,
"Reply by Shiloh Supporter:
TB said "Your *free* shilohs forum has 272 members http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shilohs/ Our "private" community forum has 1058!! http://shilohshepherds.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=439608064"
The ISSDC affiliated "Yahoo Shilohs Group" ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shilohs ) has 272 very active members, whereas the Shiloh Shepherd Friends group on http://shilohshepherds.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x lists a supposed 1058 members, even though it's become a well known fact that anyone who joins the list 'cannot unsubscribe'. The SSFriends list only seems to have 6-10 regular users, as can be verified by subscribing to this group."
I am the administrator of the Shiloh Shepherd Friends bulletin board. We are now up to 1091 members.  While people who join the list cannot unsubscribe, they can ask me as the administrator to be removed as only one or two people have in the past.  I have immediately removed them.  The invitation is open to all of you who are members of our forums (many of you seem to read them very frequently).  If you so desire, I will be happy to remove you from our list. Trillhill 13:17, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  For the Record --  

message: In archive seven, it was written:
"In 1997, the SSDCA was inactive for a year. During that time, then SSDCA Vice-President, Gary Allison, accepted responsibility for running a club for the breed and so the International Shiloh Shepherd Dog Club (ISSDC) was created.  In 1998, due to a disagreement with the ISSR rules, the ISSDC annouced they would open their own registry, calling it the ISSDCr.  The SSDCA reopened at this time."
Jareth asked " I almost forgot. Since we mentioned the ISSRs number of registrations, can we get that info for the other registries as well?"
We have prepared an updated report.  Please view http://www.shilohshepherds.info/numbers.htm.  If you need any addtional details, please let us know.
Someone wrote "..over the past 2 decades a lot of "registries" have been started for "new/rare breeds" but none of them (that I know of) have done so without a Breed Standard. In my experience, I have also heard of a "new" group splinting off from the original because they did not agree on the Breed Standard being used, and would then write their own ... that may or may not be recognized by others, but I have always seen these things progress decently & in order! 
http://www.petplace.com/dogs/breed-clubs/page1.aspx Please note There are breeds that end up with two clubs who disagree on breed function, or breed standards, and choose to register their breed with different registries. The breed standard set for a specific breed with the AKC may not be the same as with the UKC, not only because the registries may differ in their criteria, but also because more than one breed club may have existed, thereby creating two different breed philosophies of form and function. One club (be it National Breed Club or organized fancy group) may have divided and chosen different paths, such as with the famous Jack Russell Terrier also known as the Parson Russell Terrier, depending on to which registry your referring." 
We would like to encourage the "other" registries to povide their own breed standard if they want to be listed on the Wiki along with the ISSR! The use of our breed standard constitutes a copyright violation.  Please note the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.  http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf 
Debbie Knatz, one of our board members, posted
 "1. You said "In 1997, the SSDCA became inactive for a year" then went on to talk about the various other registries starting up, closing down, etc. Could you please mention that the SSDCA was reopened (and when) and that it has been in continued existence ever since?
2. You've asked for registration numbers from the other registries, but by looking at the lists of breeders in the various registry websites you'll see that there are many breeder's who are affiliated with multiple registries. Since they are registering their dogs in more than one registry the totals you receive will be inaccurate because the same dogs will be counted over and over again. The same goes for the breeders, if they are affiliated with multiple registries, the number of breeders that are actually out there is artificially inflated and the general public won't get a true feel for how big (or small) these groups really are.
ISSDC - http://www.shilohs.org/ISSDC/ISSDCPageBreederProfiles.htm
TSSR - http://www.shilohshepherdtssr.com/breeders.htm
NSBR - http://www.shilohregistry.com/breeders.html
SSBA - http://www.shilohshepherd.org/breeders.html
The ISSR is the only registry that does not allow dual registration so you will not find any of the breeders who are in good standing with the ISSR listed on any of the other registry websites. Here is the link to our Licensed Breeder list: http://www.shilohshepherds.org/licensedBreeders.htm If you DO find any of our breeders listed with the other registries please let us know, because as Ricky said, "Lucy, you got some splainin to do!" :-)"
The  SSDCA Excutive Board members would still like to suggest that the Wiki include an honest representation regarding the numbers.  
The board would also recommend, as Tina suggested, that the "History" Section be divided into three parts:
1. Breed History
2. Club History
3. Registry History
We would make the suggestion that Section One (Breed history) just focus on what constituted the start as well as the decades of development that went into these dogs prior to 1990.  All of this can be easily gleaned from
:--The history of the Shiloh Shepherd http://www.shilohshepherds.org/kennelof.htm
:--What is a Shiloh Shepherd (article written and published in 1990) http://www.shilohshepherds.info/whatIsAShilohShepherd.htm
:--Shiloh History Timeline  http://www.shilohshepherds.info/shilohHistory.htm
Section two (Club history) can detail the start of the of the SSDCA as the parent club for FIC in 1990, its incorporation in 1991, cover the split in 1997 and mention the the original ISSDC's formation and demise and the formation of the new ISSDC in mid 2004.  The section might also mention some of the clubs' accomplishments.  For example, in 2000-1 the SSDCA sponsored a health survey done in conjunction with Dr. George A. Padgett.  The SSDCA's genetic task force also established an on-going health survey, database and web site.  In 2005 through the efforts of club members a comprehensive illustrated breed standard was completed with over 70 illustrations prepared by Linda Shaw, a very well known canine artist.  http://www.shilohshepherds.info/issrShilohShepherdIllustratedBreedStandard.htm
We would also like to invite the other club to share their documented accomplishments they have attained for the betterment of the breed.
 
Sources:  
:--SSDCA entity status:  http://appsext5.dos.state.ny.us/corp_public/CORPSEARCH.ENTITY_INFORMATION?p_nameid=1649897&p_corpid=1571122&p_entity_name=%53%68%69%6C%6F%68%20%53%68%65%70%68%65%72%64%20%44%6F%67%20%43%6C%75%62%20%6F%66%20%41%6D%65%72%69%63%61&p_name_type=%25&p_search_type=%42%45%47%49%4E%53&p_srch_results_page=0
:--Club split and formation of the (first) ISSDC (includes original documents)  http://www.shilohshepherds.info/clubSplit.htm.
Section 3 should just focus on the registry; its beginnings, the LMX program utilized in the formation of the ISSR computerized processing system via the TCCP,  that has continued to add  only ISSR registered dogs.  The ISSR maintains an LMX/RC data base on over 45,000 documented ancestors in order to utilize this data to produce better dogs during the continued development of this breed, as well as incorporating this information for use within the Genetic Task Force in order to track various diseases prevalent in specific lines.  Then the history can continue with dates of formation (and proper documentation of those dates) regarding all of the *other* registries ... including dates of closing where applicable! 
References
:--ISSR Timeline  http://www.shilohshepherds.info/issrTimeline.htm
:--NSBR website with reference to formation in 2001.
:--TSSR website with reference to formation in 2002.
:--SSBAR website with reference to formation in ?
We welcome your comments and look forward to the completion of this project.
Ssdcaboard 22:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect, can we please move forward rather than backward. The above proposal has been rehashed and rehashed ad nauseam. The continuos presentation of original research and bias POV will never reach concensus. Jareth has made a very good, fair, non-bias proposal that I would suggest we adopt.
ShenandoahShilohs 16:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  SSDCA Executive Board Response to Wiki Archive 7 and Proposal for Article  

message: Perhaps this should be included too (there's no validation of these numbers either and I present this for illustration purposes) Health Survey Gwyllgi 12:39, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Health Survey 

message: I have been extremely busy lately, but after reviewing Jareth's new draft, I think it is an very good, unbiased and an accurate revision that can be agreed on by all sides. I can tell the work that went into it. Very good, Jareth and thank-you for an obviously well thought out and neutral article. It is an revision and excellent for consensus. ---iamgateway
:I too have been extremely busy with homework so I haven't been able to post, but have kept up with the reading. Jareth has done an excellent job of giving compromise to both sides. Suzy G. 03:36, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jareth's draft