Talk:Miriam Makeba

message: I was thinking that since Miriam Makeba is dead, often Wikipedia has an older main picture of that person, so in other words when that person was younger. Of course there are exceptions like for example Mother Teresa who was more relevant in her older years. But I think in this case Miriam Makeba achieved considerable fame in the 1960s, so it would be nice if the main picture was from around that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.115.201.50 (talk) 19:10, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion for Earlier Picture

message: I've been looking over the source material here as a starting point to polishing this, and I find that there are two significant sources I have incomplete access to; the Bordowitz and Schwartz-Bart sources. Can you help with those? I've found some books and journal sources that I will add over the next couple of days, but these two do seem to be important.  Since you're a major contributor here; MBO and I are planning to take this to FAC in the near future; as a major contributor, any input you have would be useful, and your copyedits are, of course, welcomed. Vanamonde (talk) 04:05, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: *I have since been able to get hold of Bordowitz; and I have found that the title was actually rather misleading. It is a four page piece, by Makeba herself; the only secondary information comes from an "about the author" section somewhere in the back. So not the best source, and I have been trying to replace it. I think the issue we are going to have to deal with for Makeba is that there are fewer sources focused solely on her (the exception are her numerous obituaries, some of which are scholarly, like the Allen source) and so a lot of the supplementary detail is going to have to come from scholarly sources that examine some aspect of her career (like ) and/or from the obituaries themselves. Are there any major sources you think we're missing at the moment? Vanamonde (talk) 10:06, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

text: *It's a mix, I think. The sources differ. Vanamonde (talk) 10:07, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

text: *All of the suggestions look good to me! Vanamonde (talk) 10:06, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: * Please feel free to make these and other tweaks yourself: I've worked on the article so much that it becomes difficult for me to step back and look at the prose critically. Vanamonde (talk) 11:55, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

text: *Oh good lord, is it really four columns on your screen? I switched from 30em to 24 because 30 was giving me just one column, but then my machine is really quite small...which also explains my slew of typos, btw. Thanks for cleaning those up. I am rather fond of bullet points, but feel free to tweak the column size. I do think, though, that the columns size should be consistent across the subsections. Vanamonde (talk) 04:32, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

text: *Oh, I totally agree. Despite the impression that my edit summary must have given, I was not trying to single out New York itself - I removed country names from all such sources in that list (at least I think I did). Midnightblueowl (talk) 14:00, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: * Glad we're in agreement: I made a few more reference tweaks . I'll go ahead and nominate this sometime tomorrow; if there's things that still need work before then, let me know, and I'll hold off. Cheers, Vanamonde (talk) 12:40, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

text: *I should probably also ping  do you have any suggestions as to things that need attention before an FAC? Or, for that matter, do you wish to be a co-nom? Regards, Vanamonde (talk) 12:54, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: * Thanks for the ping. I can't think of anything that needs to be done at this point for a FAC nom, for what it's worth, but I'm not that experienced with the modern FAC system. Primarily for that reason, I don't wish to co-nominate the page ... you've pretty much done 90% of the work here! Graham87 13:58, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: *Sure, I've done a lot of the recent stuff, but you've done a lot of work on this over the years, and you also cleaned up a lot of my untidiness. In any case, you are always welcome to comment, but no pressure! Vanamonde (talk) 16:32, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: *Thanks; I'll keep an eye on it. I hope it works out! Graham87 10:41, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Miriam Makeba --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:55, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  TFAR 

message: The answers to your questions are "no" and "no"; I don't see how that was in doubt, though. Vanamonde (talk) 15:54, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "text questions" 

message: Interesting ref from the "Pata Pata" article, which means we might need to change a few things here:
*
I have access to that ref, but I can't get to the Ravell-Pinto refernce on the Miriam Makeba page, which mentions that a disagreement happened between Makeba and Belafonte during the recording of "Pata Pata" (which seems rather unlikely in light of the Allingham ref). , could you help out here? I probably won't be able to do more on this tonight (my time). Graham87 13:37, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: On it, but I'm a bit busy at the moment, it might take me a day or so. Vanamonde (talk) 14:32, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pata Pata 

message: Please, sorry my bad English... So... After 1964, her musical director (and musician in tours) does Sivuca. This article forgot him! References:
#L.A. Times
#Folha de S.Paulo (in portuguese)
André Koehne (talk) 10:35, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Were's [[Sivuca]]? 

message: Given that a scholarly source mentioned this incident, it's quite possibly worth including, but I'm uncomfortable with the way in which it's currently mentioned. It doesn't have a coherent link to the content before or after it, nor does it make it clear that Makeba's prejudice was about Head being too white, not too black (which is a reasonable interpretation). Vanamonde (Talk) 23:26, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah as you can tell from my edit summaries, I was also a bit dubious about this new paragraph. There's also another possible piece of context: in the Google Books excerpt I can see it talks about Makeba's first husband being coloured and how his family allegedly treated her. Of course, we can't use that book directly as a source for all that. There's also the matter of the fact we're only hearing one side of the story ... perhaps Makeba responded to Head's allegations somewhere. Due to Wikipedia's extreme prominence and the very surprising nature of the allegations, I now think it's better to not have them in at all than to have them in there with the wrong or no context. Therefore despite me being up most of last night chasing these allegations down, I've gone and removed them. Graham87 04:24, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, much appreciated. I haven't had the time I would want to do any digging. In the absence of further detail, I think this is best kept out at the moment. Even if we are discussing this as prejudice on Makeba's part, we need to know if it was disdain for people with white heritage; prejudice against coloured people specifically; or something else, and at the moment, we don't have that. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:01, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bessie Head 

message: I don't recall Carmichael being a Black Panther, much less a leader. He was, I believe, a member of the Student Non-violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) until he embraced violent revolution. Curious Chicano (talk) 05:19, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: He was affiliated with the Black Panther party, including in leadership positions, for a period between his work with the SNCC and his move to Guinea. Our article about him has the details. Vanamonde (Talk) 06:27, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Panther leader Stokely Carmichael 

message: While trying to make clarifications in response to this edit, I discovered that there's a very comprehensive and apparently recent article about Makeba in the online Oxford Research Encyclopedia of African History. It's available to anyone who can access The Wikipedia Library using the Oxford Research Encyclopedias page. I used it to straighten out her childhood but there's probably more that can be done with it if I or someone else feels inclined. In particular, I don't know if the car accident she went through as a passenger (in which she was physically unharmed) needs a mention; this is the first source I've had access to that describes it comprehensively. There might be other things from her adult life that could be added at some point, both at this article and that of her daughter Bongi. I removed the bit from this page about her saying she was shy, as I couldn't find a way to make it flow well with the rewritten text; the cited ref (the Economist obituary) just mentioned that she said this to an unnamed reporter and didn't really give a timeframe. I hope I haven't messed anything up ... feel free to make any further corrections necessary. Graham87 13:10, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: A very useful article, thanks for pointing me to it. I was pleased to see at least a few instances where I read a detail, came here to add it, and found we already had; but there's also a decent amount of detail we could use. It's also a comprehensive source review, as best as I can tell, and I'm going to look up at least a couple of sources it lists. Please feel free to tweak anything I've added thus far. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:47, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: A fair point , Graham...I suspect on review it's better to have the loc parameter, but I was lazy yesterday. I can work through adding them later. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:45, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries; I got them all, I think. I was wondering why the footnote numbers in the recent text were so high even though the ref was already used. I was using copy and paste to make the references when I made my recent edits. Graham87 04:30, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Oxford Research Encyclopedia of African History'' article