Talk:Gigi (singer)

message: Most of the text is identical to the content of this website. The "Build date: 23 June 2003" indicates that their article precedes all versions of this article (I had thought perhaps that their article was instead culled from Wikipedia). Archive.org supports this: although their archive date is later than the build date, it's still older than the Wikipedia article (some problem at archive.org currently prevents me from actually comparing versions).
The source website's terms of use do not indicate that inclusion in Wikipedia would be acceptable.
I have created a temporary subpage containing the text (with my copyedits) that was not part of the content in question: Ejigayehu "Gigi" Shibabaw/Temp
-- Gyrofrog  (talk) 20:26, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible copyright violation

message: The copyvio material has been deleted.Thanks to Petaholmes for following up with this and moving the temporary subpage to the article space. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 17:34, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Problem resolved, thanks!

message: I have tagged this section of the article with .  The "Controversy" section reads thusly:
:Gigi has been criticised by some conservatives in Ethiopia, for breaking out of the traditional role of women in the Ethiopian Church. For instance, the song "Adwa" on her album Gigi is a cry of mourning for soldiers who died in the Second Italo-Abyssinian War. This type of song is traditionally sung by men in Ethiopia.
Is "Adwa" sung in church? (It might be, but I didn't think this was a liturgical song.) Does the church prescribe that males should only sing "Adwa," or is this influence more broadly cultural (and less directly church-influenced)?  This also raises questions about the quote attributed to Gigi (and that's why I added "[sic]"). Women indeed are allowed to sing in church (see image).  They do not, however, perform the liturgy. When Gigi mentions that a priest taught her how to sing the church songs, I suspect she means that he taught her how to sing in the style in which (male) priests deliver the liturgy.
-- Gyrofrog  (talk) 20:45, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've found a source that I believe clarifies the matter, an interview with Kay Kaufman Shelemay (author of the "Ethiopia" article in the Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians). (Frankly I am still skeptical, but Shelemay is certainly a reliable source, which trumps my concerns.)  See also Talk:Tigist Shibabaw‎. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 04:49, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Gyrofrog , you're a trip. I quoted and referenced Gigi Shibabaw's official Myspace page regarding the tradition of women not being allowed to sing in the church. But for you, not even the artist, who is Ethiopian, is credible enough to be quoted about a tradition in her own culture regarding her own personal experience. What an insult! Instead, you find it more reliable/credible an article written by an non-Ethiopian? Oh, and because you found this, it trumps what is quoted on the artist's own official myspace page (where I originally got the information from)? To me, the artists Myspace page is more credible than the article you found. Who would be more credible as a source regarding Ethiopian tradition other than a native Ethiopian?  The fact that this man is scholar does not, by default, make him more credible as even scholars get their information wrong, or a biased in their research. Bab-a-lot (talk) 13:14, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Gigi's Myspace page is a primary source.  Gigi says "is actually not allowed" in the present tense, and your edit (to ) reflected that. (I'm not disputing the part where she says a priest taught her how to sing, where I think we can use MySpace as a source.)  I will grant that women (generally) may not have sung in church in the past (i.e. before the Derg), but this is clearly no longer the case  .  My point in all this, is that it isn't exceptional for a woman her age to have sung in church.  If we are going to cite Gigi's Myspace page, it should be qualified with "Gigi claims that...", "Gigi says..." etc.  (See Talk:Rainbow (rock band)#Street of Dreams for a similar case.)  Being Ethiopian or non-Ethiopian has nothing to do with it: my wife is Ethiopian, she is older than Gigi, she grew up singing in the church choir (in 1970s-1980s Ethiopia), and says that Gigi (or whoever writes her web pages) is full of it. When I've gone to Ethiopian churches, in both the U.S. and in Ethiopia, women do indeed sing (example). Obviously I can't, and shouldn't, rely on my wife's or my own experience (WP:SELFCITING), but at the same time, when an artist writes about herself on her own website, it should be taken with a grain of salt.  That's why I looked for another source, such as the Shelemay interview.  And what I meant by "trump" was that Shelemay (a woman, by the way) being a verifiable source trumps my own opinion about the matter (which is that women have sung in church even pre-Derg). I hope this is clear, and I apologize that I wasn't more clear earlier. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 16:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

text:  P.S.  The church itself maintains (source) that "both men and women may join in the singing", but says nothing of the musical roles in the past, and then goes on to say "choirs of the western type are unknown in the Ethiopian Church" which doesn't seem accurate – again, see file.  I've also invited WP:ETHIOPIA participants to weigh in here, as this has been an intermittent issue for 5.5 years. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 18:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  As of this writing, Gigi's Myspace page no longer includes the claim about singing in church (GiGi on Myspace).  I've converted this information into an explanatory note, although personally I think we should completely remove it, since the source itself no longer corroborates it. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 23:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy? 

message: A similar claim had been made in the Tigist Shibabaw‎ article; I've removed it and left some comments at that talk page. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 20:00, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've found a source that I believe clarifies the matter, an interview with Kay Kaufman Shelemay (author of the "Ethiopia" article in the Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians). (Frankly I am still skeptical, but Shelemay is certainly a reliable source, which trumps my concerns.)  See also Talk:Tigist Shibabaw‎. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 04:49, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Gyrofrog , you're a trip. I quoted and referenced Gigi Shibabaw's official Myspace page regarding the tradition of women not being allowed to sing in the church. But for you, not even the artist, who is Ethiopian, is credible enough to be quoted about a tradition in her own culture regarding her own personal experience. What an insult! Instead, you find it more reliable/credible an article written by an non-Ethiopian? Oh, and because you found this, it trumps what is quoted on the artist's own official myspace page (where I originally got the information from)? To me, the artists Myspace page is more credible than the article you found. Who would be more credible as a source regarding Ethiopian tradition other than a native Ethiopian?  The fact that this man is scholar does not, by default, make him more credible as even scholars get their information wrong, or a biased in their research. Bab-a-lot (talk) 13:14, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Gigi's Myspace page is a primary source.  Gigi says "is actually not allowed" in the present tense, and your edit (to ) reflected that. (I'm not disputing the part where she says a priest taught her how to sing, where I think we can use MySpace as a source.)  I will grant that women (generally) may not have sung in church in the past (i.e. before the Derg), but this is clearly no longer the case  .  My point in all this, is that it isn't exceptional for a woman her age to have sung in church.  If we are going to cite Gigi's Myspace page, it should be qualified with "Gigi claims that...", "Gigi says..." etc.  (See Talk:Rainbow (rock band)#Street of Dreams for a similar case.)  Being Ethiopian or non-Ethiopian has nothing to do with it: my wife is Ethiopian, she is older than Gigi, she grew up singing in the church choir (in 1970s-1980s Ethiopia), and says that Gigi (or whoever writes her web pages) is full of it. When I've gone to Ethiopian churches, in both the U.S. and in Ethiopia, women do indeed sing (example). Obviously I can't, and shouldn't, rely on my wife's or my own experience (WP:SELFCITING), but at the same time, when an artist writes about herself on her own website, it should be taken with a grain of salt.  That's why I looked for another source, such as the Shelemay interview.  And what I meant by "trump" was that Shelemay (a woman, by the way) being a verifiable source trumps my own opinion about the matter (which is that women have sung in church even pre-Derg). I hope this is clear, and I apologize that I wasn't more clear earlier. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 16:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

text:  P.S.  The church itself maintains (source) that "both men and women may join in the singing", but says nothing of the musical roles in the past, and then goes on to say "choirs of the western type are unknown in the Ethiopian Church" which doesn't seem accurate – again, see file.  I've also invited WP:ETHIOPIA participants to weigh in here, as this has been an intermittent issue for 5.5 years. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 18:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  As of this writing, Gigi's Myspace page no longer includes the claim about singing in church (GiGi on Myspace).  I've converted this information into an explanatory note, although personally I think we should completely remove it, since the source itself no longer corroborates it. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 23:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redux 

message: I've moved (renamed) the page from "Ejigayehu Shibabaw" to "Gigi (singer)," since she is known as "Gigi."  (Much in the same way that Paul Hewson is better known as "Bono," and so his Wikipedia article is also named "Bono.") -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 17:24, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved page to "Gigi (singer)" 

message: What languages does she sing in?  What language is the song "Guramayle" in?  Anyone know?  The Jade Knight 20:11, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language(s)? 

message: :Image:Gigialbumart.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Gigialbumart.jpg

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Gigi (singer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090912003932/http://www.myspace.com/ejigayehu to http://www.myspace.com/ejigayehu
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Gigi (singer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050317184214/http://www.afropop.org/multi/interview/ID/50/Gigi to http://www.afropop.org/multi/interview/ID/50/Gigi
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050314152017/http://www.afropop.org/explore/album_review/ID/1142/Gigi to http://www.afropop.org/explore/album_review/ID/1142/Gigi
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050322094420/http://www.afropop.org/explore/album_review/ID/2425 to http://www.afropop.org/explore/album_review/ID/2425
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.ethiobiography.org/ejegayehu-shibabaw-gigi/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, provided it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Gyrofrog (talk) 01:32, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed