Talk:Fluoroantimonic acid

message: Is it twenty quadrillion or twenty quintillion times stronger than sulfuric acid? WP:V! Hyenaste 06:13, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 10<sup>16</sup> or 10<sup>19</sup>?

message: Is this acid merely strong  or is it corrosive as well?  129.44.209.60 21:25, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most strong acids are corrosive.  This material is rapidly decomposed in air (hydrolysis) to give HF, so the question is really, how bad is HF?  Ans: bad.--Smokefoot 22:13, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: HF I know about.  Nasty stuff.  Thanks; I was asking since I recalled hearing about some superacid that wasn't corrosive, and knew that HF was more corrosive than HCl, which is a strong acid (this is some serious shit).  129.44.209.60 22:17, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would seem that it would be corrosive anyway -- it decomposes all organic compounds. Basically it would react with your skin. Ouch.--The Sultan of Surreal. 06:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Corrosive?

message: It says..."It reacts with virtually all known solvents." What's the example for which this acid does not react with? --HappyCamper 00:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I glanced at the review but not the original papers.  The solvent of choice is sulfuryl chloride fluoride and apparently in some cases dichloromethane and I think that they cut it with HF to lower the viscosity. I need to look at the actual preps.--Smokefoot 02:41, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First reference 

message: Does anyone know where I can get this stuff or the ingredients? Thx. --74.134.8.244 19:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do a Google search for companies that sell chemicals to the general public. HF is a common reagent, as is SbF5. Keep this in mind, however: more or less the only thing it doesn't dissolve is Teflon, and I don't think you actually understand exactly how dangerous this acid is. It fumes when it comes into contact with moisture, like hydrochloric acid but worse, and is supposed to be used under controlled conditions. Its reaction with bases, for example, may be explosive. Bbi5291 23:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

text: A better question would be: where can you get an affordable inert atmosphere PTFE glovebox? 213.47.157.98 (talk) 07:41, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: For sale?

message: As I understand it, the sentence that was just reverted is trying to say "when you react the superacid with a hydrocarbon, you get hydrogen gas expelled from the system, with the hydrocarbon ultimately losing a hydrogen to become a carbocation". There are many words for that, but I don't think "protonation" is one of them. Maybe the article on protonation is incorrect, but here is an excerpt: "Upon protonating a substrate, the mass and the charge of the species each increase by one unit." It seems to me that the hydrocarbon doesn't *receive* the extra proton - the net reaction seems to involve *losing* a hydrogen it already had. (okay, the superacid is obviously not a base so I can see why you would object to using the word "deprotonation" here, but surely "protonation" is even more misleading? seems to me this reaction is kind of analogous to a hydride group leaving the carbon, rather than what you would call a "protonation") ugen64 06:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the intermediate would be a protonated hydrocarbon such as CH5+. --Itub 12:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ugen64: Great comments.  You can see why inorganic chemists use the word 'dihydrogen' for H2, as your words are difficult to parse because hydrogen means H and H2.  But in any case, X-H + H+  -->  X+  +  H2 (where X = any molecular fragment) is not a deprotonation but loss of hydride (H-).  Chemists do not really have a single word ("dehydridation") that would be the opposite to deprotonation. Hydrocarbons do this reaction reluctantly, but this acid is seriously strong.  And yes as Rifleman points out, the intermediate in H2 loss features pentacoordinate carbon, but we're used to that by now (see trimethylaluminium).--Smokefoot 13:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Deprotonation"

message: Will it dissolve noble metals like Gold or Platinum  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.69.220.228 (talk) 18:59, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, maybe it would protonate the gold, forming HAu+1 cations which would dissolve. Stonemason89 (talk) 19:38, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Gold

message: What is the pH of HSbF6? Professor M. Fiendish, Esq. 02:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  pH 

message: I thing HAuF6 will be even more acidic than HSbF6, since the ionization energy of [AuF6]-(10 eV) is much greater than that of [SbF6]-(6 eV). Just some thoughts...--Anoop.m (talk) 16:20, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stronger acid 

message: Forgive me if I'm totally working on the wrong principles, but here's an idea: HF + CuF11 = HCuF12. If my baseless speculation is right, the icosahedron shape of the fluorine atoms will make it very difficult for the protons to reattach once they're off. Will the highly charged ion of Cu11+ do much?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.178.12.19 (talk) 04:50, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that highly charged ions like those in the Sun or in particle accelerators are not "the stuff of chemistry" (by the stuff of chemistry I mean molecules or compounds stable enough that you might be able to hold in a reasonable container, and do "chemistry-like" experiments with them). Once one goes down the road of astrochemistry or particle accelerators, there are many super-duper-acids. The strongest Lewis acid would presumably be the Uuo118+ cation. For Bronsted acids, the helium hydride ion has been called the strongest acid. --19:23, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Now Og118+, I suppose. :) Double sharp (talk) 11:26, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

text: First of all, (H3O+) is the hydronium ion, not hydroxonium (I'm going to assume that was a typo). Secondly, you are wrong about helium hydride ion simply being a proton carrier; it has been shown to dissociate in water into He and H+. In fact, empirical data is very evident on this as the proton affinity is shown to be -360 kJ/mol, which is equivalent to an acid dissociation constant of -63, which is 2.52 times stronger than fluoroantimonic acid. Unlike other theoretical compounds which could give higher acid dissociation constant values, the helium hydride ion is empirically tested and proven so I don't see why it shouldn't be labeled the strongest acid simply because of the environment the ion was created in.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.181.123.136 (talk) 05:40, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, thank you. I'd think that Cu11+ would be possible outside of the sun with high heat and fluoride, but looking at the periodic table again, Lu11+ would be more stable. Dropping the idea now. 72.178.12.19 (talk) 03:08, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

text: And  is the simplest acid AND the strongest all in one(!). 80.98.179.160 (talk) 09:50, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be noted that no element has been shown to form stable compounds in any oxidation state above +8. That's not to say that such compounds aren't possible, they just haven't been found yet. Eight-coordinate fluoride anions have been found already. One example is XeF8-2, which has a square antiprismatic shape (square antiprismatic coordination seems to be preferred over cubical coordination for eight-coordinate atoms, since the former is more tightly packed). I'm not sure if HIF8 is possible, but if it is, it might be stronger than fluoroantimonic. It might be difficult to prepare HIF8 due to the fact that iodine heptafluoride, unlike antimony pentafluoride, is a gas, and gases are harder to work with. Stonemason89 (talk) 19:30, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The  ion is one of the most promising candidates for an oxidation state of +9. Double sharp (talk) 11:33, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It already has Ir in oxidation number 9. 80.98.179.160 (talk) 09:50, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but that was only discovered in 2014. When I wrote that comment in 2012, IrIX was not known yet. Double sharp (talk) 14:02, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal for stronger acid

message: Has anyone tried that? Stonemason89 (talk) 19:33, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Check out  helium(1+).--Plasmic Physics (talk) 02:10, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Can it protonate noble gases?

message: I doubt that this material decomposes in water.  What is it supposed to do?  SbF6- is reasonably happy in water.  Yes, the reaction would be exothermic, but that detail is irrelevant.  One could say that H2SO4 decomposes in water since the molecule (HO)2SO2 converts to hydronium+SO3(OH)-, but we dont use decomposition in that way.--Smokefoot (talk) 13:12, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference in the article says otherwise.  It is an Olah reference, but I don't have a copy to check. So, if someone does, they can check the veracity of the citation.JSR (talk) 13:47, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  I reread the Olah report and revised the page.  People who work with this stuff avoid water assiduously because a little moisture lowers the acidity.  Leveling effect (chemistry) (an article that needs help). --Smokefoot (talk) 14:09, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Your changes make more sense, chemically.  Now we need to figure out how to deal with a one sentence safety subsection.  I looked and didn't have any earthshaking ideas, but will continue thinking about it.JSR (talk) 14:12, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Doesnt decomp in water

message: I think the chemical formula was horribly wrong, it should have been HSbF6. I fixed it. That other chemical be called dihydrogen heptafluoroantimonate, and it could not be made from hydrogen fluoride and antimony pentafluoride. Scientific Alan 2(Click here to talk)(What have I done?)(Me) 14:04, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it was not wrong, and not that is not its name. Plasmic Physics (talk) 21:02, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I was surprised to see the new formula too and was ready to accuse Plasmic of OR, but Greenwood and Earnshaw also use that formula.  Looks fine to me.  I should revise the image, I guess.  --Smokefoot (talk) 22:16, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, but the thing about a proton being "naked". There's more than one proton. So either the formula is wrong, or that part is wrong. Scientific Alan 2(Click here to talk)(What have I done?) 15:01, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither is wrong. Plasmic Physics (talk) 21:56, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Then why does it say "the proton"? Shouldn't it say "a proton"?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scientific Alan 2 (talk • contribs) 21:08, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In my view that is just a matter o pedantry and doesn't ultimately make much of a difference. If you feel that 'a' works better than 'the', then by all means, don't let me get in your way. Plasmic Physics (talk) 04:36, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I fixed it, but how come the last reference calls it H+SbF6-?, instead of H2F+SbF6-?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scientific Alan 2 (talk • contribs) 17:48, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Simplicity; the fact that protons are never naked isn't really the most important feature here. It's kind of like how you often see H+ written instead of H3O+ when stuff happens in aqueous solution. Double sharp (talk) 13:44, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

text: This article is generally about fluoroantimonic acid not only about H2F[SbF6] which we get if we use 2 moles of HF and 1 mole of fluoride... Mithoron (talk) 00:40, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your suggestion? Plasmic Physics (talk) 10:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides, Scientitific Alan was partially right - HSbF6 (1:1) is strongest and there this "naked proton" thing has some sense - there's really H+ coordinated to SbF6 - and source [3] doesn't take this into account. I'm afraid that first part of art. from about 2 years ago had relevant info about it and maybe some of the later edits should be reverted. Somehow we should make it that the art. would take into account various proportions of HF and fluoride. Mithoron (talk) 12:58, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, do you have a source that states that the hexafluoridoantimonate(1-) segment is coordinated to a proton? Plasmic Physics (talk) 20:35, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

text: The CAS number seems to match HSbF6 so is probably wrong for here. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:54, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Pardon me, but I don't understand your sentence structuring - what is wrong for here? Plasmic Physics (talk) 04:25, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:   What he means is that the CAS number in the article, 16950-06-4, is specific to the chemical with the formula HSbF6 and is therefore inconsistent with the description of fluoroantimonic acid having the formula H2SbF7.   ChemNerd (talk) 20:19, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, well, as I said before, that formula is the simplified formula for the same compound. Plasmic Physics (talk) 05:09, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  H<sub>2</sub>FSbF<sub>6</sub>? 

message: It seems that there is no melting point of this compound mentioned in article.--5.15.187.229 (talk) 10:37, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Melting point data 

message: Actually, there are stronger acids than fluoroantimonic acid since 2013. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carborane_acid. Thus the article should be edited as it says that this is the strongest acid.
Apelsinas128 (talk) 12:26, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  No longer the strongest acid 

message: This stuff seems pretty horrible. Is it actually used for anything, other than as a chemical curiosity?  KarlM (talk) 09:54, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uses 

message: You can also store it (saw video of shipping container from Sigma-Aldrich) in perfluoroalkoxy alkane containers, (PFA, like the PFA everyone screams about that is used in Teflon pans).
2600:1700:4CA1:3C80:4877:C0B6:1088:FF80 (talk) 20:00, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Storage 

message: Why is the space-filling image inconsistent with the other two in the infobox? (one hydrogen atom vs two hydrogen atoms). IronGargoyle (talk) 20:14, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The space filling image depicts one molecule of hydrogen fluoride, and one molecule of antimony pentafluoride. According to the article, these are the two substances that are mixed together to produce fluoroantimonic acid. Upon mixing, "various cations and anions (the simplest being H2F+ and SbF6-)" are formed. H2F+ and SbF6- are what are depicted in the ball-and-stick image and the letter-and-stick image. I am not an expert in this domain, but presenting these inconsistent images side-by-side without explanation does seem rather silly to me, and obtuse to the point of misinformation. 2601:940:C001:88A0:B186:2D55:CAC6:80A5 (talk) 23:23, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconsistent images