Talk:Honky-tonk

message: Is there any relation to the word Honkey? Mikkalai 02:52, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Honkey

message: How can you even pretend to have a good article on honky tonk without even delving into the etymology of the word? Explaining that it's a bar that plays such and such music doesnt really tell much about why they were called that to begin with.
: I don't know where alleged pretending is going on. Wikipedia is an ongoing project under construction. If you think an article can be improved, you are encouraged to improve it. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 19:41, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you know, much as I repect the BBC, my research into swing has shown that they get stuff wrong. The word honky is not in this Wollof dictionary. http://www.africanculture.dk/gambia/ftp/wollof.pdf.  And really, are we supposed to think that Wollof speakers were referring to places that white people went to? References, we need references!And meanwhile, geese honk, in English! Steve Pastor (talk) 17:31, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: Perhaps to understand the etymology.
:*"The ARDMORITE has a better opinion of the morals of the people of Ardmore than to charge that they sanction or encourage the performance to be offered tonight by a crowd of brazen celebrities know as the Fanny Hill Burlesque Comedy Company. ..." The Daily Ardmorite (Oklahoma), February 26, 1894, page 2, column 1.  (Oklahoma Historical Society, Microfilm #110)
:*"The honk-a-tonk last night was well attended by ball heads, bachelors and leading citizens. Most of them are inclined to kick themselves this morning for being sold." The Daily Ardmorite (Oklahoma), February 27, 1894, page 1, column 4. (Oklahoma Historical Society, Microfilm #110)
:*"We understand that one of the male adjuncts to the honk-a-tonk took occasion last night to condemn the action of the ARDMORITE in showing up the very shady character of his more doubtful painted, padded and brazen harlots who had the unmitigated effrontery to pass as examples of legitimate burlesque comedy. ..." The Daily Ardmorite (Oklahoma), February 27, 1894, page 2, column 1.  (Oklahoma Historical Society, Microfilm #110)
=== A few more ===
:*"The series of scrub foot ball games have begun at Harvard. Like the base ball games played in the spring, they afford men of ordinary playing ability, who would like to get into the game, a chance to do so, and, incidentally, offer a great deal of amusement and interest to the student body. It appears that in selecting names for the various organizations the undergraduats have outdone themselves in the line of facetiousness. A game between the Mudloppers and Honkatonks or the Honkatonks and the Wallowers has in it the true Irish ring of a Donnybrook fair." -The Brooklin Daily Eagle, Friday, October 25, 1901, column 5, page 13.
:*"There is scarcely an old-time gambler in the United States who does not remember the Reeves gambling house and 'honkytonk' in Guthrie. ...a stage and rows of curtained boxes, was built as an addition for the purposes of a free-and-easy varity show." -The Daily Oklahoman, Sunday, September 5, 1915, column 1, page 1.
:: Interesting, thanks for sharing these. -- Infrogmation 11:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Daily Ardmorite, 1894 

message: :*"The series of scrub foot ball games have begun at Harvard. Like the base ball games played in the spring, they afford men of ordinary playing ability, who would like to get into the game, a chance to do so, and, incidentally, offer a great deal of amusement and interest to the student body. It appears that in selecting names for the various organizations the undergraduats have outdone themselves in the line of facetiousness. A game between the Mudloppers and Honkatonks or the Honkatonks and the Wallowers has in it the true Irish ring of a Donnybrook fair." -The Brooklin Daily Eagle, Friday, October 25, 1901, column 5, page 13.
:*"There is scarcely an old-time gambler in the United States who does not remember the Reeves gambling house and 'honkytonk' in Guthrie. ...a stage and rows of curtained boxes, was built as an addition for the purposes of a free-and-easy varity show." -The Daily Oklahoman, Sunday, September 5, 1915, column 1, page 1.
:: Interesting, thanks for sharing these. -- Infrogmation 11:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A few more 

message: I think it's pretty clear that honkytonks, the bars and the music, did not have their origins in the South, but the Southwest (Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Colorado, New Mexico). I found several references to honkytonks as a common occurrence in the oil boom towns of Oklahoma and Texas during the 1910s and 20s. I also found a reference in New York from 1929 which still referred to them as variety shows. I also found a reference in a 1926 Oklahoma newspaper about dancehalls in "Booger Town" (Borger, Texas; an oil boom town) speaking of honkytonk music—"Waltzes and new numbers were interspersed with the old honkytonk favorites". I won't speculate what "honkytonk favorites" were, but the "new numbers" referred to jazz; in this case Memphis Blues played by a band named the California Red Jackets. Modern honkytonk music does not seem to have arrived in the South until Western swing bands (such as Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys) began playing on the Grand Ol' Opry in the 30s or 40s.
:Now there may be some speculation about where Bobs Wills played - only once on the Opry and that was 1945 or so. His music was not considered to be country back then. It was jazz and it was swing. Let me know if those books say otherwise. Steve Pastor 15:42, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More speculation

message: It states uncategorically that the term came from the sound of geese which led an unsuspecting group of cowboys to the flock instead of to the variety show they expected.
Uncategorically?  Did the writer mean categorically? 141.156.217.167 04:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Uncategorically"? 

message: This article really deserves a split into honky tonk (for the type of saloon) and honky tonk music.  The two topics are certainly related but are largely independent categorically as with country and country music. —  AjaxSmack  01:57, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Split article ?

message: This should be merged with Honky tonk music.  I see from that these were originally split from the same article, & I think this was a mistake.  I searched for "honky tonk", wanted to read about the music, as i am sure lots of country fans do, and instead find an article which barely mentions it.  The "honky tonk" article does not offer any link to the "honky tonk music" section, and I only discovered that article by chance when searching for something else.
These two articles cover a lot of the same ground & over time this is likely to increase if they remain separate, as editors will be unaware of the two articles & so the same kind of content will be added separately to both.  Other people, like me, will be disappointed to find nothing about the honky tonk sound on the "honky tonk" article, & so will add content about it, without realising there is a separate article about it.
Having two articles also misses the point that the two subjects (honky tonk music & honky tonk bars) are firmly intertwined.  The honky tonk sound developed because musicians began incorporating electric instruments in order to be heard in the crowded bars in which they performed.
Weasel Fetlocks (talk) 15:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  And, as there has been no disagreement, and this merge proposal was made 6+ months ago, the merge should proceed. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 03:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Done. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 03:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: In reference to recent edit summaries and reverts on the list of popular references, I have read the WP:IPC which states that: "passing mentions in books, television or film dialogue, or song lyrics should be included only when that mention's significance is itself demonstrated with secondary sources." The reference to use in a manga pretty clearly falls within this category. I look forward to the addition of citations of reliable sources that point to its significance. I am going to search for third party sources that point to notability for the subject for the songs.--SabreBD (talk) 20:47, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that the reference needs to establish the mentions significance, not the fact of that there is a mention. I am still looking for similar references to the musical mentions.--SabreBD (talk) 20:29, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I do understand it, but I am following the guidelines to which you pointed. The fact that there is a mention is not in itself notable. The guideline seem pretty clear that something that indicates its relevance to the subject is needed. Opinions may vary on exactly how that is expressed, but I am looking for something that indicates why, for example, the Rolling Stones chose it as part of their song. I suggest what you need for the manga reference is something that indicates how the choice of that name related to the topic: perhaps in the form similar to "honky tonk was chosen as the name of the bar after the American roadside bar of that name..." and then perhaps giving some reason.--SabreBD (talk) 21:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. Wikipedia list articles should not include every trivial mention of the article's subject; items included should be limited to those that have received significant third-party coverage, as demonstrated via appropriate sourcing. Doniago (talk) 22:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultural references/Trivia section

message: While I was engaged in (largely fruitless) search for the citations for the trivia section I came across a large number of sources on honky tonk music in general. I plan to get around to cleaning up and expanding this section at some point in the future. However, I have begun to wonder whether we should take this off into a separate article (i.e. Honky Tonk (music)). Any thoughts welcome.--SabreBD (talk) 20:32, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Music section

message: Below information was tagged for needing sources long-term. Feel free to reinsert the below material with appropriate references. DonIago (talk) 13:39, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced material 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Innocent Question: why isn't this guy mentioned here? Should I write something?
partial early discography
Single                           	Recording Date
"HONKY TONK BLUES"               	November 28, 1936
"HONKY TONK BABY"                	June 17, 1937
"WHEN WE GO A HONKY TONKIN'"     	April 23, 1940
"MEET ME DOWN IN HONKY TONK TOWN"	March 4, 1941
"HONKY TONK CHINESE DIME"        	March 4, 1941
Another song, “Honky Tonk Blues,” brought the term ‘honky tonk’ into the country music vernacular for the first time. Dexter himself didn’t know honky tonk from hop¬scotch until his songwriting pal, James Paris, clued him in.
He not only inspired countless songwriters and artists to perpetuate the “honky tonk” sound, he then helped instigate their efforts to broaden the appeal and reception of Country Music the world as a whole. Hall Of Fames members Merle Haggard and Lefty Frizzell were direct recipients of Al Dexter’s influence and inspiration.
In all fairness:
However, the popular theory that Dexter actually coined the term can be blown full of holes; he had never heard of honky tonk before his songwriting partner James B. Paris suggested it as a title in 1936.
I did not mention "Pistol Packin' Mama" or "Guitar Polka"
Tillywilly17 (talk) 01:37, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Al Dexter