Talk:Belgium national football team

message: Nowadays more native English speakers speak American English than British English, but for the following reasons (only) British English is to be preferred in this article:
* The roots of association football are British
* Consistency
* (To a minor extent: ) The UK is a lot closer to Belgium than the US are, and in the same continent
If you happen to find American English words in this article, please replace them with an alternative that is valid in UK English. Thank you, Kareldorado (talk) 11:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  British English in this article 

message: Help me identify former players! ManFromNord (talk) 08:28, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This RBFA website with all Belgium players will probably facilitate your player identification; it provides the first names, photographs and former clubs. Do "Ctrl-F" for the last names and you should find all. Regards, Kareldorado (talk) 09:04, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oud-spelers  

message: Hi, after some reconsideration I would like to delete the Popular culture section, and will carry on arguments pro and con:
PRO deletion:
:- in AndyZ's FA suggestions it is explicitly recommended to remove "Trivia"/"other facts"/"Miscellaneous"/"In popular culture"
:- little information about the team itself, neither about the team image (popularity and so)
:- information about several commercial products, on top of that, it is arbitrary what to include and what not (card games? board games? The many other comic books that were released in 2014?)
:- size reduction to obtain a more acceptable length
:- bulleted lists are flow-breaking
AGAINST deletion:
:- the section shows how the team fits into local culture (but rather little, IMO)
:- a couple of times the team also co-operated in singing or appearing in songs or the recent Ta fête music video
Any more comments? Be my guest! Kareldorado (talk) 07:15, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of section "Popular culture"? 

message: The dates in references are sometimes written in full, sometimes in 3-letter abbreviations. What's it gonna be? 
If I remember correctly, a bot actually repeatedly changed them from 3-letter to full-months in the past weeks, which was then sometimes (perhaps not consistently) reverted. Do we want to stay with 3-letter months? Is there a reason to? It's actually just as easy to simply write the months in full; it's not like there's limited space. But whatever the decision, let's make this consistent. (I'm happy to go over all the references to update them) —Sygmoral (talk) 02:23, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have seen that someone changed this by help of a bot, but I thought I had undone everything (May will always be May, however). Is there a bot who changed many words to full again? For the sake of conciseness in the references I prefer three letters. WP:CITESTYLE states "nearly any consistent style may be used". Kareldorado (talk) 03:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

text: I checked everything and only found one "August", so I abbreviated it. In every sentence or heading (including the heading of references) I keep it long, in the references I prefer it to be short. Kareldorado (talk) 03:41, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Aha I see, I must have gotten confused because of the |date parameters in the infobox that do use the full version (since they visibly appear there). Less of an inconsistency than I thought then! —Sygmoral (talk) 12:16, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference dates: Sep or September? 

message: MarshalN20 suggested a deletion of both. Several featured articles do report the honours section, but the reasons why I favoured this step as well are as follows:
* These parts were not prosaic at all.
* If you count it well, you can already find all of these so-called honours (hard to define what an honour is, by the way) in four other places throughout the article: the infobox, the lead, the history section and the competitive record section. They are still legitimate there in these places I think, but a fifth mentioning would be absolutely superfluous. All awards can still be found through the link below the competitive record heading and the the template Belgium NFT at the bottom of the page.
* The minor tournaments are... very minor, hardly known internationally. There were even more matches for special occasions - national FA celebrations and so - at which also cups might have been awarded, but this was barely reported in media. Very interested readers can still look up these minor tournaments through the wikilinks in the history section, or the template Belgium NFT.
With thanks for your understanding, Kareldorado (talk) 17:54, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of Honours section and Minor tournament subsection 

message: This might serve as a reminder for which things to keep updated - like this we can do it more systematically. Please take care of the totals when changing numbers in tables.
After a new selection is announced:
* "Current squad", including the text and references above the player list, and blanking of player numbers
* "Recent call-ups", including side comments about injuries and so
After each match:
* "Current squad", including the text and references above the player list, and filling in player numbers
* "Player records": the date and if needed increasing the amount of players
* "Records and fixtures": the date and W-D-L and goal balances
* "Management": average number of points under the statistically best performing manager
* At the general results page: tables of Record per opponent and of Results in chronological order (2010–2019)
* At the 2010s results page: the overall balance (on top) and match details of the latest match
* At the records page: various things, especially with care for goals and appearances
* At the manager page: numbers and dates
* At the captain page: numbers and dates
* At the home stadium page: numbers and dates
Monthly or, if possible, sooner:
* In the intro and History sections: important updates (like qualifications)
* In the infobox: FIFA Ranking and Elo Ranking
* "Current squad": wiping out the players with last call-up > 12 months ago
* At the records page: FIFA Ranking and Elo Ranking and various things
Of course, additions and changes are welcome. Kareldorado (talk) 14:16, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Up-to-date bucket list 

message: At first sight there is little to add after the circumstantial reviews by Cirt and Parutakupiu.
However, before the long winter break of the national team there are still some adaptations needed in upcoming two weeks:
* Update after the match against Italy (13 November)
* Update after the match against Spain (17 November)
* Re-read and offer final comments
* Await a nice illustration of the new kit (away kit yet to be revealed), probably another masterpiece by Zotteteen1
Kareldorado (talk) 04:44, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last steps before naming the article as Featured Article Candidate 

message: Refer to Help:Citation Style 1#Templates: cite web really is only a 'last-resort' option, if all other options have been exhausted. If nothing else is applicable, only then use cite web; that's how I interpret it. cite news is for, I quote: news articles in print, video, audio or web. Any website that posts news articles therefore should (imo) be quoted with a cite news template, often with a website=... parameter. The only good use for cite web, I believe, is for information on websites that is not posted as a news item, and cannot therefore be considered to be a "news article" (such as a link to FIFA regulations). (Some websites may require a cite journal instead, if they're the website of a magazine, since those are "magazine articles", not "news articles". )
Concerning the publisher vs website parameter, I understand that Sporza is indeed not the name of a website, so I guess the 'website' parameter should not be used. But I was hesistant to use the publisher parameter because Sporza is not a company, and every documentation about the publisher parameter says it should only be used for real companies (in this case, VRT: VRT is doing the publishing through its Sporza brand). Anyway, I guess that's too confusing, and if not "publisher" or "website", I don't know what to call Sporza, so I guess we should probably use publisher=Sporza anyway. But I do believe cite news should be used, not cite web, as the latter is too generic. Sporza does publish news articles on their website, and that's exactly what cite news is for. —Sygmoral (talk) 00:25, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, after reading through Help:Citation Style 1#Work and publisher, I conclude that we should actually use "website=Sporza.be" (including the .be to show that we're not refering to the entire Sporza brand), and omit the "publisher" parameter. If used, it should say VRT, but nobody cares that it's VRT anyway. The publisher parameter is only recommended for cite book, while it is 'not necessary' for others (they really really mean publishing companies with that parameter). —Sygmoral (talk) 00:36, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

text: Yes, good remarks, I followed the same reasoning often until now, but Parutakupiu's note about consistency and the template page made me doubt. Sometimes articles at Sporza are not really 'news', but a retrospect, a summary about recent events, guesswork on upcoming events... Vice versa, sometimes newspaper articles are not about 'new' news - does that mean that we should use something else than 'cite news' in that case? Maybe we should ask users like Parutakupiu and MarshalN20 what's their experience in the field. Kareldorado (talk) 11:19, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I fully agree with 's explanation, and that was always my non-expert understanding. The only thing I may not have acknowledged was the use of  as a last resort when all other citation templates do not apply, but even this has never posed a problem so far. In summary, if the source is any kind of news article (print or online), use  and the work/website/newspaper parameter should define the source type. For online non-news sources,  is generally the most appropriate. Hope I was clearer this time. Parutakupiu (talk) 11:37, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, thanks both of you. We will have to watch out then each time, whether an article is about real 'news' or whether it is merely a flashback about things that happened a lot earlier. -- Kareldorado (talk) 12:32, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Stability is very important in these cases. Keep consistency in the way that the citation formats are used (if you're going to use web for one and news for another, be sure to know why this is being done so that you can explain it and help others replicate your work). I hope you're having a good November! Best.--MarshalN20 Talk 22:28, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  References: cite news/web 

message: Addressed topics brought up by NapHit in FAC1
I'll start with trying to deal with NapHit's list:
* You introduce the UBSSA, without using their full name. I would use their full name and have the acronym after it.
:You're absolutely right. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Not necessarily, but if you want that... Note that a comment of yours below is just the opposite, that you rather have "finals" than "final stages" as "finals" would be clearly different from "final". As it is slightly shorter, I opted for "end stages". Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: True, so I added the score and linked to the article about the final. More detail is given in the European Championship section. Kareldorado (talk) 18:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

text: Rather not, to avoid confusion; it is always in plural because of the "six", so you never know whether it goes about "the final phase" or "the final" and this may wrongly sound like it goes about "six time a World Cup final in a row"  Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Yes, they were the managers that guided the team past the first round in this period. I'll add "in this period".  Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 18:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok, I knew no misunderstanding was possible but I just made myself familiar with English style guides about commas. Kareldorado (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Good suggestion. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: I rather leave it as it is shorter and IMO it is obvious the World Cup is meant. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: A great way to rephrase this heavy sentence, so I incorporated it. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Hopefully it was the only wrong word remaining. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Clarified. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Ok. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: I'm not familiar with this matter, and don't know what you exactly mean with your second sentence. User:Sygmoral has been busy with it already. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: It is this kind of small corrections that can make the difference between good and outstanding, so thanks for that. Kareldorado (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Unfortunately this is a very good remark... The websites contains detailed information about European football matches, including friendlies, that most often turns out to be correct. It is a pity that the authors don't reveal their sources, and if (or how) they fact-check new information that editors of the site carry on. I will try to contact the website owners and look for websites that can already be regarded as reliable. Kareldorado (talk) 10:57, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

text: The thing is that we have access to the entire page, but the page number is not mentioned. Maybe I'd rather drop the page parameter then? Kareldorado (talk) 10:57, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Added, just like for all other articles. Kareldorado (talk) 14:14, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

text: Added, just like for all other articles. Kareldorado (talk) 14:14, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

text: I checked which reference was ref 163 at that moment, but I can't see in which way it needed an en dash. Kareldorado (talk) 10:57, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Are these all handled now? In either case, I would like to suggest 'hiding' the handled items in a "wikitable collapsible collapsed" (as they do here), so that it's more quickly visible which items still need addressing. –Sygmoral (talk) 16:58, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: FAC2 preparation

message: The Wikipedia template for football kits is quite a hard one, because its dimensions are not realistic. But we have to use it of course. Still, it shows only the front, and not the sides. Currently, the Belgian kits have some 'compromises' that don't exactly make them look more realistic, in my opinion. It feels like the separate elements of the designs got more attention than the complete picture did. I have two issues with their current form: 
*The stripes on the sides of the real thing are barely even visible on a frontal view (if worn by a player). We have to live with the fact that the Wikipedia template is a frontal view, and we can't get the sides on there, at least not fully. But the biggest trouble is when those stripes meet the sleeves, because in reality they end up in the "armpits", which is not possible to model in 2D, so they appear to just 'stop' in the middle of the chest. We can make that more realistic. 
*My second issue is purely with the away shirt: the size and position of the Belgian colours. In reality, the top border is still BELOW the sleeves, while the current form shows it ABOVE where the sleeves start. It's impossible to do it "perfectly", but it can  be done better. Also, they should be wider than what they look like now: especially if you imagine them tucked into the shorts (which seems to be what the Wikipedia template counts on). Check this picture, especially the left and right guy which match the template best. 
So this is what I made of it for the Away shirt, back in November. I think the stripes on the right one are much more realistic, and the Belgian colours... it's not perfect, but it's more accurate than in the original.
I could still add the neck thingie, if that's a problem. But I don't feel like this adds to the realism; it's actually too thin, and also: "less is more". My suggestion just uses the default neck from the template. Oh and I would also change the socks because they don't have those stripes when seen from the front. Maybe just a single stripe next to the edge. 
The Home shirt also needs to loose the excess stripes on the socks, and in the body I'd just make it so that the stripes "disappear under the armits", as I did with the shirt above. And make the red stripe on the shoulders a little more wide. 
Any objections? –Sygmoral (talk) 19:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections, just go for it. Honestly I am not a big expert in comparing the real thing with our approximations, but indeed we don't need to see the back part of the collar, and often the side patterns of football kits are over-emphasized. Kareldorado (talk) 10:49, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There, done. Sort of proud of the Home one, and the Away one, well, I guess this is as about good as it gets! (jeez, 2.5 hours just for this, I must be crazy) –Sygmoral (talk) 03:36, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It's dedication. It's really fantastic to have two dedicated Belgian football experts in the English Wikipedia. I hope the second FAC goes better. Best.--MarshalN20 Talk 03:49, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kits 

message: An IP-user removed the 'Captain' note next to Vincent Kompany, and denoted only Eden Hazard as the 'captain'. While he is correct about this squad's captain, Kompany is without a doubt still considered the standard captain of the team. But we can't really have two different players both be called "the" captain, I assume. 
I didn't want to revert it yet because it's a somewhat confusing issue. Should E. Hazard be called "2nd captain", even though he will in fact always start the game as captain throughout the European Championship and its preparations? How else could we elegantly solve this? –Sygmoral (talk) 16:42, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd simply write "captain" behind Kompany's name, and "vice-captain" behind Hazard's. Anyone who is willing to check the recent call-ups will easily find out why Hazard is 'only' vice-captain but yet fulfills the captain function. Maybe it is useful to add a reference stating Kompany and Hazard are the Usual Suspects. Kareldorado (talk) 19:53, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain 

message: I refer to: WP:MOS -- Infoboxes -- References in infoboxes. I remember reading that in the past: it says that references should not appear in infoboxes if those refs already appear in the body of the article. The idea, I'm sure, is that the infobox is sort of meant as a summarization of the body, so it should not introduce "new" information, only repeat what is already said in the body. (and that's the reason I am against the Elo ratings and the "biggest win" and "biggest defeat" in that infobox template, but they always go against me when I suggest removing them from the template, so ah well :p) –Sygmoral (talk) 12:36, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in infoboxes 

message: I get a bit annoyed when Danielmordor removes refs that I put in the Recent Players section (this wasn't the first time), because Wikipedia says all information should be sourced, and a lot of information in this section isn't. But I left it alone this time. Not so for the note about the Spain match last year though, that seems too important not to say anything about. I also don't understand why the explanatory note about Kompany's captain-status had to be removed, but anyway ... (Danielmorder must hate refs and notes!)
Anyway, I'm not writing just to complain, but to change something about how we maintain these tables: he has also been updating players' clubs, which I understand, but someone had already asked him two weeks ago not to do so on the Wales article, citing a recent WP:FOOTY discussion. "The clubs mentioned should be the clubs the played with at the time of that call-up". Now, I don't want to revert those edits because I'm too lazy to look up who was playing for what club, but I think we should enforce this in the future. Another thing (from that discussion) is that the age should always be "age at that date" rather than "current age" in this table. Actually the same is true for "Current squad" because that table always relates to a specific call-up, too. If we're going for Featured Article anyway, might as well take ALL recommendations into account! So I will try to enforce this as soon as the squad for 1 september is announced, if no one disagrees here. –Sygmoral (talk) 07:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent call-ups 

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replies: text: Working archive link (thanks  User:cyberpower678), but the link isn't dead, so I remove the |deadurl=true. –Sygmoral (talk) 15:46, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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replies: text: This was not a dated reference, but an "external link". It's supposed to just always link to the most recent version of the page. –Sygmoral (talk) 19:46, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the first paragraph, we see the Dutch and German names for "Belgium national football team", but not the German. Now, I have never been to Belgium, but I understand that even though German is the language of about 1% of the Belgians, it's official (I believe). That's why the  German name for "The Red Devils" and the abbreviation for the RBFA is in the infobox, no? So Surely the German name of the team should be in the first paragraph, or no German at all. Harambe Walks (talk) 20:09, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  German name in first paragraph 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghanistan national football team which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 15:18, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghanistan national football team which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 14:49, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: Tedesco was born in Italy, but he grew up in Germany and since both Germany and Italy are EU members, he has citizenships of both countries. And he works in Germany more than in Italy.
Why does this article keep erasing his German identity? HiddenFace101 (talk) 19:10, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Domenico Tedesco isn't just Italian