Talk:Chinese dragon

message: http://wenku.baidu.com/view/da4b257b02768e9951e7384b.html
A section about the difference should be added, because a Dragon is a completely different idea to the Chinese Long!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.60.190.135 (talk) 04:52, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: The Differences between Chinese Long and Western Dragon

message: Dragon is the symbol of Chinese emperor. The true meaning of "龍的傳人" is subjects of the Dragon (Emperor). More elegantly, we use "Descendant of the Dragon". Genghis Khan, Kangxi, Qianlong and many other Chinese emperors are considered to be "真龙天子". But they are not Han Chinese. All the ethnic groups in China are subjects of verious Chinese emperors (Han Chinese emperor or other ethnic emperors). So all the ethnics in China are "Descendants of the Dragon". 
Beside all the ethnic groups participated in the formation of Han Chinese. They're entitled to be "Descendant of the Dragon" if they like to. It is just stupid to say that "漢族是龍的傳人。". At least, nobody say so in China. 
There are historic reasons to say that Zhonghua Minzu is the "Descendant of the Dragon", not just Han Chinese. These are indicated in the Chinese version of 汉族的主体zh: 华夏族
公元前2700年夏族领袖黄帝东进，战胜华族领袖炎帝，两族达成联盟并将蚩尤灭掉，占据整个中原，华夏二族逐渐融合成华夏族。后来华夏族融合了藏缅族、吐火罗人、东夷、通古斯族、西戎、祝融氏、蚩尤后代、匈奴、鲜卑等。西汉时期，一个以华夏族为基础的新民族：汉族产生了。汉代汉族是由华夏族与东夷族、楚族融合而成的，也有部分羌族的血液。
到了现代,大陆也有很多学者，媒体称汉族和其他少数民族等中华民族为“华夏民族”。
:There is nothing in zh: 华夏族 that says all of Zhonghua Minzu consider themselves Desendants of the Dragon.  It just says that several different ethnic groups together make up Huaxia.  --- Hong Qi Gong 17:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please show me where it says that ethnic groups like the Uyghur, or the Russians, or Koreans, etc etc, consider themselves Descendants of the Dragon.  --- Hong Qi Gong 18:03, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Again, it would help if you show us some sources for evidence.  I have yet to see anything that says that groups like Uyghurs, or the Russians minorities, for example, consider themselves Descendants of the Dragon.  --- Hong Qi Gong 18:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

text: There's no evidence that they consider themselves Descendants of the Dragon.  There's no question they belong to Zhonghua Minzu.  But there's no evidence that everybody in Zhonghua Minzu consider themselves Desendants of the Dragon.  --- Hong Qi Gong 19:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

text: 龍的傳人 does not mean subjects of the dragon. 傳人 means passing on - e.g. DNA in the case of "descendants" --Sumple (Talk) 22:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subjects of the Dragon (Emperor) 

message: Dragon is not for Han Chinese.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edipedia (talk • contribs) 2006-08-01
:The article does not say that only Han Chinese consider themselves "Descendants of the Dragon".  Your revert is unjustified and illogical.  --- Hong Qi Gong 16:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not claiming only Han Chinese refer to themselves as "Descendants of the Dragon", and the article does not claim that either.  I'm questioning that the label can be used for other ethnic groups like Russians, Koreans, Uyghurs, Tibetans, etc etc.  You have not provided any evidence to show that.  --- Hong Qi Gong 16:47, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't like the current version which seems to imply only Han ppl think they're "DotD". If you want accuracy, then, according to the HongQiGong POV, perhaps it should read "Some Chinese peoples, especially the Han Chinese, consider themselves ..." Notice the "s" on people. --Sumple (Talk) 11:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  乾隆是龍 

message: Can someone cite me a source to the Panda being the national animal of China over the Dragon?
Also Dragons are killed all the time in MMORPGs, which are all the rage in parts of China.  Would this not show a much greater disrespect than a Nike commercial?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.118.10.241 (talk) 2006-08-25 20:24:53 
:Dragon not Chinese dragon? --Sumple (Talk) 01:36, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty sure it's the traditional video game western type dragon.  Besides, it's not our role to decide what is or is not "disrespectful" here.  If someone can find a notable source to say that Chinese MMORPG players are disrespecting Chinese dragons, I'd be more than willing to support inserting that in the article.  --- Hong Qi Gong 05:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  National animal and Dragon disrespect?

message: :Is Tun-Mi-Lung (Typhoon Dragon) & Yu-Lung (Carp Dragon) exist, or are they just game creations? Thanks, CarpD 8/27/06
::Yu Lung is the carp that transforms into a dragon by swimming up the Dragon's Gate. It is also a good luck charm for successful exams. 24.14.198.8 17:32, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese Dragon Types 

message: Some Han Chinese consider themselves descendents of the phoenix.  This is a pointless debate. Just say "Many Chinese consider themselves descendents of the dragon."  Problem solved.  --128.135.60.87 09:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manchus consider themselves descendents of the dragon too 

message: There is no Dragon in Chinese culture at all. So called "Chinese Dragon" should be Loong. This is a totally different kind of animal from Dragon. Loong is a symbol of auspicious, luck and dignity.
It is the representation of Chinese God. So called "Chinese Dragon" is something like angel in western culture. Loong is the right name for this animal, and this name has already been widely used around the world. Do not say dragon again, Loong has nothing in common with Dragon.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jozg (talk • contribs) 
:Err...  but "龍" is translated as "dragon"...  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what he is calling a mistake. Ashibaka tock 23:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Yeah I think we should just stick with the Chinese dictionary, which does translate 龍 as "dragon".  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 03:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. That and very few people in the English speaking world know or calls "Chinese Dragon" as "loong".Sjschen 03:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I can definitely agree that 龍 and the western concept of "dragon" are very different, if not completely opposite.  But for the purposes of WP, we should stick with the most reputable translation, which is that 龍 translates to "dragon".  Having said that, however, what does everybody think of adding a section to explain that there are people who think this translation is a mistake?  There was actually an English-language BBC article about this, and although I'm definitely opposed to renaming the article, I think that shows it deserves attention.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 05:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese Dragon is a mistake of translation 

message: 龍之九似:
(1）龍頭似駝   (Head like camel)
(2）龍角似鹿角   (Antler like stag)
（3）龍睛似蝦目      (Eyes like lobster)                       
（4）龍口似牛   (mouth like bull)
（5）龍身似蛇    (Trunk like serpent)
(6）龍鰭似火焰  (fin like fire)
(7）龍髮似獅鬃   (hair/mane like lion)
(8）龍鱗似鯉魚    (Scales like carp)
（9）龍爪似鷹       (Talons like eagle)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.224.215.111 (talk) 
:That information should be included. The Chinese Dragon is a massive creature, just like the number nine conveys an overwhelming feeling, the Loong conveys a sense of great power and thus is associated with nine. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.213.198.142 (talk) 01:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Is already at Chinese dragon#The dragon as mythical creature, complete with bad translation. --Sumple (Talk) 04:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Where does the "eyes like a lobster" come in? I've always heard "eyes like a demon" or "eyes like a cow", or even "eyes like a hare". Also, a "belly like a clam" and "paws/legs like a tiger". At least, that's the description listed in The Enchanted World: Dragons referencing (supposedly) the Pan Ts'ao Kang Mu. 24.14.198.8 17:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chinese Dragon's nine likenesses

message: The entire section on dragon toes has been tagged for not having any references for months now.  If no references show up in the next day or so, I'll be deleting the entire section.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 04:04, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dragon toes 

message: How come there isn't clear cut about Type's of dragon's? Specfically (at least) the five general types of dragons (becuase I'm sure there's just more than 5 the more you look into it.) Here's a link To the 5 types od Chinese Dragons. And Another one! Here --199.227.86.10 14:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the article again. The first four of those dragons are exactly the same as the first four in the list of dragon types in the Wikipedia article. The Imperial Dragon is discussed under the "dragon toes" section. Also, next time find websites or books that list sources; it's more helpful to have reliable sources than websites with no citations. my only concern with the article is that D&D made up the list of nine dragon types. I don't believe that the Monster Manuals were the first ever books to give that list of dragon types. The earliest D&D books always got their information from somewhere else. 24.14.198.8 01:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  5 Types of Dragons 

message: It is stunning to consider the similarity between, say, the Mexican flag and the Greek and Roman standard, both of which are based on the conflict of the eagle and the serpent.  In the Mayan/Aztec case, Quetzlcoatl is often termed a dragon and has been compared to the Chinese system.  
Likewise there apparently is a Jewish story, where the phoenix is the one animal not ejected from the garden of Eden (due to the dragon/serpent...); the Christians embraced the phoenix as a symbol of salvation/rebirth while seeing the dragon as a demonic symbol.  All told we have a huge range of cultures with the same symbols.  It could be quite interesting to see how much information can be pulled together charting the extent of these symbols, because I'm starting to wonder if these legends might actually date back to a common origin of all these cultures, before the original migration of people to North America at the end of the last Ice Age. 70.15.114.2 (talk) 00:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Truly ancient origin for dragon/phoenix mythology? 

message: Some of the pictures on this page depicts the Chinese dragon with only four claws. Would somebody please find a picture of a Chinese dragon with five? 71.194.224.134 (talk) 00:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unaccurate Pictures 

message: I ask any admin of Wikipedia to recreate this page. It was completely wiped out (21.07.2008-10:08 UTC).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.73.47 (talk) 08:10, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't need an admin to "recreate" the page. Any Wikipedia editor, including you, can do this, by checking the page history. That's the beauty of Wikipedia, "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit." —Lowellian (reply) 11:38, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page completely wiped out - semi-protection request 

message: I'm curious about the opening sentence in the subsection "Number Nine" under "Cultural references".  The author claims that "The number nine is considered lucky in China as it is the largest possible single digit".  I know that the Arabic numberals 0-9 are in widespread usage in Asia, but I'm curious as to where this assertion that 9 being the largest single digit is the impetus for considering the number to be lucky.  Is it a reletively recent development?  In the Chinese writing system, there are many numbers represented by a single character, many of which are far larger than "9". 63.86.199.34 (talk) 22:39, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While the number 9 is considered auspicious in Chinese culture, I agree that the reason cited here is questionable.  9 is homophone with "long-time" in Mandarin, and is often used as a canting for longevity.  9 is also associated with the emperor, for reasons I'm not entirely clear.  For instance the emperor is sometimes refered to as the "Magisty of 95", and a courtyard layout with nine surrounding chambers was reserved for the emperor in some dynasties. o (talk) 00:13, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Odd numbers are Yang, and even numbers are Yin. Out of the first ten numbers (yes, the Chinese number system is decimal, too), nine is the highest of the Yang numbers, and five is the middle. Hence, nine is the highest, and nine-five represents the ultimate authority of the Emperor. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 03:24, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Number Nine 

message: Only Chinese emperor have five claws, princes&king have 4 or 3 claws, Chosun 4, Japanese 3, Sikkim 4, Bhutan 4.KJ (talk) 09:43, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: five claws

message: There is a notice that the intro for this article is too long. I would try to make changes myself, but I am not that skilled in cleaning up Wikipedia articles. If there is anyone who can do this, it would be great if you could change the intro to be shorter. I can help a bit if need be, because I see where some bits of information could be moved to. (Example: the part where it takes about the toes could be moved down to the section on dragon toes.) Again, I am not that skilled in cleaning up articles as such, so someone who knows what they're doing should make the changes. That way, anything I change won't get undone and then we won't be back where we started. Which is very annoying because usually the person who undid my changes doesn't fix what I was trying to fix...
Anyways, if someone could help, that would be great. The Sapphire Dragon (talk) 20:26, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro is too long 

message: There is a lot of academic speculation about the possibility of dinosaur bones inspiring many ancient monster myths around the world, from the Greeks to the Navajo, in lieu of modern scientific understanding. In 2007, several major news outlets picked up on a story about Chinese villagers in Henan Province using dinosaur fossils in their traditional medicine, claiming them to be "dragon bones":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6276948.stm
Should this be included in the article? --74.103.150.125 (talk) 09:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins and possible links with dinosaur fossils 

message: Under the Children of dragon section, bixi and baxia are listed as two different children of the dragon. However, in other articles in zh.wikipedia.org, these two are said to be same.  So which is correct? Kowloonese (talk) 03:38, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  bixi and baxia 

message: why does asian dragon redirect to this page. This article either needs to be renamed or a seperate article has to be created. There are many cultures in asia with their own mythology which date even further back then the chinese. I don't think this article should be focused soley on the chinese dragon.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.247.171 (talk) 17:01, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  question 

message: I find it interesting that Loong redirects here. I was informed that Loong was an unusual transliteration of the phonetics. I was told it was unique to Australia and that elsewhere lung and lòng are used. I'm intending to create a page about a processional dragon in Bendigo, an artefact known as Loong. This will bring up disambiguation and redirection issues for me. Issues that are above my current wiki editing ability. Sir Langan (talk) 14:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loong Origins 

message: because most similar mythological creatures are named by the native languages,such as  Nāga,Druk,and I dont see too many similarities between Chinese dragons and dragons.the first is slim,latter is dinosaur-likeKsyrie(Talkie talkie) 10:01, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Move back to Long 

message: This section, the first half of the first bullet point (much longer than the following 3 points, which are only one thing mentioned instead of several), talks about mythology, which more belongs in the previous section about culture instead of popular culture, then properly refers to how they appear in a very large number of things, but then in the second half of the point, and the following points, lists a small number of specific modern works that include them, which seem rather randomly selected from the extraordinarily large assortment of works that they could mention.  The separate mention of mahjong tiles in the middle of talking about books and movies seems rather oddly placed, and again is random in its inclusion since there are other games that have pieces labeled as dragons, such as Shogi.--108.86.121.42 (talk) 06:21, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  poorly done in popular culture section 

message: I know we have a link hidden on the page that might get 1/2% of the readers here to notice but the chief meaning of the Chinese dragon and its pearl isn't a huge ambiguous mystery. Like Tianlong#Asterisms already explains and cites, Draco is curled around and always chasing the orbital pole. Chinese theology goes into more detail about how the core of most of the major Chinese gods are aspects of the night sky. — LlywelynII 17:00, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Draco & the North Pole

message: The word "loong" is not in my English dictionary and not in my Chinese dictionary, is mentioned only once in the article with no source, and I've seen it used only by modern online nationalists, so I'm not sure if it's a real translation or just an online rumour (because online rumours about fake translations have happened before).  So I added "citation needed" by "loong", but someone reverted this as vandalism.  It was a good-faith request for a reliable source. Anyone got one they could put in? 92.19.111.41 (talk) 05:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: is sometimes written as loong to differentiate it from the English word long. I don't have a citation for it, but it's not really reasonable to jump to the conclusion that it's a "nationalist" thing "invented in 2024"—not to put too fine a point on it, but there's a heading from ten years ago that uses the spelling on this page. Remsense诉 06:42, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

text: I've inserted a reference to a CNN report which discusses the shift to "loong". It indicates that there are reasons why some have embraced or driven the shift. My online searches for "loong" do return largely recent results, many from China or mirrors of Wikipedia, and this from Radio Free Asia (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources for this US government-funded outlet's status here as generally reliable, attribution may be appropriate) also discusses it as a recent shift. I suggest it shouldn't be the first transliteration we list. NebY (talk) 12:13, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting, thank you. Remsense诉 21:53, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation needed for "loong"