Talk:Royal 22nd Regiment

message: The popular nickname of the Van Doos in the Canadian army is, or was, "the Come-twicers", but I hesitate to add this piece of trivia to the article. Axel 18:48, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Add it if you can find a decent cite. The only nickname I have heard is "Van Doos", altho' Regiments.org also lists les hosties de queues plate, which I am informed means either (roughly) "flat-tailed bastards" or "flat dicks." --SigPig |SEND - OVER 20:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nickname

message: I always thought that the adjective royale followed the noun, as in Gendarmerie royale du Canada. So wouldn't the Regt normally be "Le 22e Régiment Royal"? (I know it isn't, and I am not proposing it be so; I am just curious as to this  bit of French grammar). Thanks. --SigPig |SEND - OVER 20:36, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adjective preceding the noun? 

message: Is there any special dispensation for them to wear bearskins? Or is their use of the bearskin cap independent of the guards' use? 118.90.72.183 (talk) 04:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bearskins 

message: For civilian uses, particularly in the corporate world, French term for headquarters is indeed le siège social. However, for military or police organization the correct term is le quartier général. Please see http://www.r22er.com. So I changed that description.70.55.142.35 (talk) 04:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headquarters 

message: I did not add a non-free fair use rationale for this page for the Oka stare down image, as while filling out that rationale afaiac it failed one important criteria - I think it is possible that we could find free alternatives that illustrate the Royal 22e Reg. just as well or even better.  I'll let someone else find/locate/choose an image to replace it with.  Cheers. CraigWyllie (talk) 04:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oka Staredown image - probably should be replaced 

message: Van Doos is actually a shortening of vingt-deuxième [22e is the french equivalent of 22nd (twenty-second), not 22 (twenty-two)] - with the extra letters tacked on the end, the x is now no longer silent, but is pronounced like an s, and so Van Doos.Rowena Thwaite (talk) 23:40, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears this has been fixed in the page. However, instead of calling it an "anglicized mispronunciation", I think an "anglicized approximation" would be more appropriate. It is, after all, an approximation of the nearest English phonemes to those in French. (141.211.173.77 (talk) 18:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of "Van Doos" 

message: :VanDoo22 left a nice note on my talk page, asking that I hold off looking at all the data and information he provided above, as (s)he wants to review/revise it.  I'm happy to do that.  Once VanDoo22 has had the chance to revise the points (s)he has made, Shawn has suggested that we put another notice over at WP:CANBOARD/WP:CANTALK so as to expand the scope of this conversation, which is an excellent idea. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:47, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes more involved is always a good idea. Moxy (talk) 17:35, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree that the official name in English is the French spelling.  The previous discussion centered on whether the article should be using the official (French) name or the arguably more common English translation.  The decision to go with the latter does not in any way mean that we should not reference the official name in the lead and/or infobox.  --Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:19, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I have no intention of disputing the article title. I was merely attempting to explain in the lead that the English translation of the French name is not, even in English usage, the regiment's official name. Which is why I was confused by UN's edit summary. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 16:23, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbitrary break

message: Hi, I have a couple of related questions regarding CBC and possibly NFB rich media in the external links. First, I see that we currently have four links to CBC rich media pages in their digital archives:
* CBC Digital Archives – Royal 22e Régiment: Canada's Fighting 'Van Doos'
* Les Archives de Radio-Canada – Les militaires du Royal 22e Régiment (in French)
* CBC Digital Archives – Canada's Van Doos celebrate Christmas in Korea
* Les Archives de Radio-Canada – Le Noël des soldats du Royal 22e Régiment (in French)
However, as indicated in the parentheses, the 2nd and 4th ELs are simply French versions of the preceding English webpage. I can't see a policy against this, but it seems to me to be unnecessary link clutter, as we do of couse have a French-language article on the regiment, for francophone readers. 
Also, the NFB now has their own playlist for the regiment, here, which features excerpts from the documentary The Van Doos in Afghanistan. 
I propose to cut the two French language CBC mirror links and add the NFB's to the bottom of the list. Are there any objections? thanks, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 13:47, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  There are times where it is necessary and appropriate to provide a non-English external link (almost always where there is no English-language version), but there is no need to provide alternatives to the English links in other languages.  It is particularly unnecessary where, as in this case, the English external pages already contain links to the French-language versions. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:59, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  If anyone objects please discuss here. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:16, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

text: Support actions  taken Moxy (talk) 19:38, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: Why the title is Royal 22nd Regiment, while even the first sentence of the article says that officially and in the usage in English the name remains Royal 22e Régiment? Even in the common usage in English, nobody use "22nd", every body say "22e" or "vandoo". Official publications in English also always use the official name (in French) nowadays. It is a proper name, ans as such, not translatable. All other Regiments who has English official proper names are not translated on the French Wikipedia. Obviously, it still should be explained that the name means "22nd", but it shouldn't be the title of the article. Amqui (talk) 03:32, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: It is written : « The War of 1812: Défense du Canada 1812–1815,[17] Châteauguay, Ferme Crysler[18] »... These were VOLTIGEURS, light infantry battalions constituted by George Prevost and put under the command of Charles-Michel de Salaberry : they have nothing to do with the 22 Royal Regiment!!!
--HawkFest (talk) 23:12, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In 2012 the R22eR was designated to perpetuate several units from the War of 1812 and the R22eR now holds those honours as a result of these perpetuations. Here’s a good article on these new perpetuations and battle honours: War of 1812 Battle Honours perpetuated by Canadian Army Units Indefatigable (talk) 00:02, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  ERROR : confusion between Voltigeurs and the Van Doos... 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Royal 22nd Regiment. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110711101548/http://www.globaltvbc.com/health/Amputee+soldier+heads+back+Afghanistan/2028364/story.html to http://www.globaltvbc.com/health/Amputee+soldier+heads+back+Afghanistan/2028364/story.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 19:14, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I corrected a caption which mistakenly stated that Marshall Fayolle was the recipient of the regimental colours. He was actually *presenting* them at the request of Marshall Foch who had been made Honorary Colonel of the regiment.
Source: Official Facebook page of the R22R
https://www.facebook.com/100R22eR/photos/a.549424398459103/549424505125759/?type=1&theater&hc_location=ufi  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marc pasquin (talk • contribs) 16:19, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: I have just corrected a change that had removed "Royal 22e Régiment" from the regimental identification in English. I do not wish to raise the debate of 2011 that ended up with titling the page Royal 22nd Regiment. But Wikipedia is a reference used by journalists, writers, students and other people who need to know what the right name of the regiment is. This issue becomes even more acute since the name of the regiment, and indeed the whole issue of having French-speaking regiments, has been long debated by those who don't want to pander to the French. But it is important for Wikipedia to get its facts straight or else it loses its value. We have no choice if some members insist on anglicising names. But it is essential, so as to be factual, that the "official" and "most widely used" name of the regiment nevertheless be available to inform those who look up Wikipedia for correct information.Apr 28th, 2020 in confinement! 70.80.20.70 (talk) 20:38, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that I have again adjusted the wording to reflect WP:TONE. Thank you for the source at Termium Plus, that is a great reference for GoC official naming policy on the regiment. I've put a prominent note beside the initial use of the English name to indicate the usage of the French name is official and used in both languages.  18:10, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia has a manual of style that relates to francophone institutions in Canada (it can be found at MOS:CAFR): "Where there is a single standard and generally accepted English name for the institution, use that rather than the French name (e.g. National Assembly of Quebec rather than "Assemblée nationale du Québec") regardless of whether that name is 'official' or not." There are a significant number of sources (from Canadian government as well as domestic and foreign media) in the article using the English-language title "Royal 22nd Regiment" showing that it is a generally accepted English-language title for the regiment, despite not being official. However, guidelines such as those in the MOS are not set in stone and exceptions can apply. Continuing to undo edits back and forth is not conducive to making a good Wikipedia article. If you believe there is a good reason to move the article to "Royal 22e Régiment", and I certainly believe you do, then you can open a requested move discussion and make the case why an exception can apply. The method to open a discussion is detailed at WP:RM#CM.  19:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

text: In order to determine the frequency of use of a word or phrase, a Google search is most often used. Such a search is difficult and must be correctly structures so as not to mislead. Here is how to do a Google search of the number of times Royal 22e Régiment is used vs the use of Royal 22nd Regiment in current English. The Google search application, although much improved, still cannot accurately count the uses of a whole phrase consisting of three words. It will instead count any set of phrases that include “regiment” and “Royal”, as well as phrases that have 22nd in them.  “Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment” as well as “Camilla's royal career... 22nd April” are examples. “Verbatim” does not work, currently. The results, in the tens of millions, are obviously not correct. Therefore, the title phrase being searched must be enclosed in quotation marks. But when that is done it does not distinguish between 22nd and 22e. the word “regiment” is another problem because many publications, particularly in former years, do not use accents in an English text and will print “Royal 22e Regiment”. The solution is to search for “Royal 22nd” -22e. This keeps the two words, Royal 22nd, together and the insertion of -22e eliminates French versions. The word regiment is simply not inserted because the lack of accent does not necessarily differentiate between English and French. The use of ANY TIME, for the search period, is not helpful, because it searches over one hundred years of text that is constantly being added to the Google data, from historical sources. Word usage changes over the years and Wikipedia seeks to present the latest, current usage. Google allows specific date ranges to be selected for searches. I selected ranges of years starting at 1 january and finishing 1 january 2020.  Finally Google allows the identification of language of the document of use, although it does not appear to be very accurate for obvious reasons – the multitude of bilingual pages, particularly in Canada,  must cause difficulty in determining the language of the text.  Finally, it must be noted that this search excludes articles that include both an English and French version of the name such as historical texts that discuss the Royal 22nd Regiment of 1920, but then use the French version to cover the subsequent 100 years after 1928. I have no solution for that, but hopefully it does not harm the conclusions. The results are displayed as follows: TF TIME FRAME R22nd/R22e(English pages) For example’TF2019 311/1860(706) shows (1) timeframe from 1jan 2019 to 1 jan 2020 (2)Royal 22nd used 311 times/ (3) Royal 22e used 1,860 times((4) number of times Royal 22e used on English page = 706 times). Here are the complete results: TF ANY TIME 45,600/105,000(E42,800)  TF1950 5900/10,600 (E3,500)  TF2000 4530/9640(E3330)  TF2010 3820/8440(E2800)  TF2015 2560/7020(E2470)  TF2017 2030/3970(E1620)  TF2018 1910/2980(E997)  TF2019 311/1860(E706) TFPAST_YEAR 401/2550(E898). Conclusion: Using the complete Google data base covering the 105 year history or the Van Doos, Google shows 45,600 uses of Royal 22nd Regiment and 105,000 uses of Royal 22e Régiment, of which 42,800 uses of the French version were identified by Google as being on an English page. More recently, in the year 2019, there were 311 uses of Royal 22nd and 1860 uses of Royal 22e, of which 706 were on pages identified as English by Google. In the “past year” the data tells the same story: 401 uses of the English version of Royal 22nd and 2550 uses of the French version (Royal 22e) of which 898 were on pages identified as English by Google. Clearly, throughout the whole historic period covered by Google, the use of Royal 22nd and Royal 22e, on English pages, appears to be about equal, with the anglicised R22nd being used 5% more than the official R22e version on English pages. However, in the current era, the tendency has clearly been in favour of the use of the official French name of the regiment, even on English pages. The difference in use being about 100%. Or Royal 22e is used double the times that Royal 22nd is used on English pages.12 May 2020::70.80.20.70 (talk) 21:05, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title - May 2020