Talk:Predestination

message: The subsection "Biblical support of predestination" states "Some Biblical verses often used as sources for Christian beliefs in predestination are below. Note that most of these verses do not distinguish between the conditional election (Arminian) and unconditional election (Calvinist), but are simply evidence of some type of election".
The subsection "Biblical support of free will" states "It is evident from the Biblical scriptures that God creates options that humans can choose; our ability to have chosen another option is essential to God caring about the choice that we make (and His particular absolute, more than temporal, unchanging, eternal judgement of that choice)".
This looks non-NPOV to me, as it seems to impy that the "Biblical support of free will" is the correct interpretation of the scripture.  (And indeed, that God exists and the Bible is true). Iapetus (talk) 00:11, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that last bit especially was blatantly POV, and I have removed it. StAnselm (talk) 01:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-NPOV in Christianity section 

message: It's worth a mention that several pagan religions believed that humans' fates are out of their hands. In Greek mythology, for example, the three Fates determine when someone is born, what "path" their life will take, and how long it'll be before humans die. Even the gods were subject to fate, though not nearly to the same extent. Germanic paganism holds a similar view. SorcererCallandira2 (talk) 09:17, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead defines the subject of the article as "the doctrine that all events have been willed by God," so I don't see much relevance for what you describe. --JFH (talk) 16:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pagan predestination 

message: Sorry, but a great part of this article is beside the point, including the very first sentence. No, predestination is not "the doctrine that all events have been willed by God". No one has ever used the word in this way. There exist such a doctrine indeed, and it has the precise name "Providence", and has never been called anything else. Predestination, on the other hand, means Providence in so far it concerns the fact that people finally go to Heaven. "Predestination" has never been used in any other sense than meaning this eternal fate. Nor is this doctrine specifically Calvinistic, at best, it should be said somewhere in the body of the article, not the introduction, that it tends to be associated with Calvinism. The decisive doctrine of Calvinism in this matter is "positive reprobation ante praevisa merita". Calvin himself saw no difference there, which is why he taught it, but that is neither neutral point of view nor - I'm Catholic, as you guessed - the right point of view.--77.4.46.200 (talk) 15:09, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Sorry, but a great part of this article is beside the point

message: I wonder if it might be good to use the same bible version in all of the quoted verses supporting predestination and free will. I noticed that verses from many different bibles are used, and it might help if they were all from the same bible. (I prefer the KJV, so I would love to see all of the verses in that format, but that's just me.). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gypsy Danger Dynamite (talk • contribs) 20:07, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion: Standard Bible Usage

message: It seems like Predestination is usually used specifically in Christianity, and there are simply some "related concepts" in other religions.  A See also link, or a brief "similar concepts in other religions" section seems like it should suffice here.  The categories certainly suggest this is mostly about Christianity...  it'd enable the "this is all about Christianity" tag to be removed, as the article could simply explicitly be about just that. SnowFire (talk) 04:52, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally like that idea. It might be best if predestination is handled by each religion separately instead of together. By the way, you were right to revert my edit. This article is dealing only with theology.Gypsy Danger Dynamite (talk) 06:36, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does it make sense to refocus this article around Christianity? 

message: Responding to the above, I don't think it's workable to say "Predestination" will be just about Christianity when the Islam article is called Predestination in Islam and "predestination in Judaism" returns lots of Google hits. It appears that predestination is an important facet of Islam, though I am not an expert. My proposal is to keep the article as a broad concept article, but split the current Christianity content to Predestination in Christianity. The Christianity section of this page will be WP:SUMMARYSTYLE. --JFH (talk) 20:15, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Split out Christianity

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism
IMO this connection is very worth to be included in this article. PeterTrompeter (talk) 08:22, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is about Predestination, not about "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" --Rafaelosornio (talk) 14:15, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism 

message: About 30 percent of the references for this article is from Matthew Levering's book, Predestination: Biblical and Theological Paths (2011). These additions were made during December 2015. The edits during this period retained about 58 percent of the original material, with 20 percent of new material added. New material added includes double predestination and the majority of the history section. In regards to the history section, 1055 of the words from the December 2015 edits remain in the current article. Around 46 percent of the references in the history section are from Matthew Levering's book, Predestination: Biblical and Theological Paths (2011). 49.180.9.26 (talk) 04:38, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heavy use of material from Matthew Levering 

message: The passage cited from Pope John Paul II's "Redemptoris Missio" appears to be taken out of context, or at the very least re-interpreted by a wiki editor to apply to predestination, when that wasn't the original source's intent. Connecting the passage and reframing it in light of predestination would then seem to be an editorial choice and wouldn't be appropriate for a Wikipedia article.
In case there's a wikipedia policy allowing for this type of secondary interpretation, I'm leaving a comment here for someone more familiar to hopefully find, rather than removing the passage from this article myself. 64.135.139.165 (talk) 22:10, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Out-of-context or editorally reinterpreted passage from Pope John Paul II