Talk:Doris Downes

message: Added reference already.Editstat7 20:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Notability (people) states that "A person is notable if he or she has been the subject of secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject". None of what you supplied is establishing Notability since gallery sales and bio's are not "intellectually independent" or "independent of the subject" and the art reviews in spanish do not state that Doris Downes is notable in some way... they just review her work. Being good at what you do is not Notability. You may want to have a look at Wikipedia:Notability (people) to see if you can find something that meets wikipedia's standards. 69.72.2.72 19:13, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Downes is included in carefully curated shows, American Florals, with the most recognized names in American Floral Painting. Under the notable category of 'Special Cases', she falls within  Creative Professionals The person's work either (a) has been displayed in a significant exhibition...(b) has won significant critical attention, or (c) is represented within the permanent collection of a significant gallery or museum of more than local significance.   Jordan23 18:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Being included in a juried show with "recognized names" does not make her notable. It would depend on what the show in question is and that would have to be cited. The shortness of her career (started in 2001) and the lack of any other reference other than commercial gallery ones, which are by definition not an independent source, seems to point to her not being a notable fine artist. There is some information pointing to her being a notable art director but she seems to be retired. 69.72.2.72 04:16, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Creative professionals 

message: There is a history of deletion of large parts of the above discussion, coming from different user names. Yet the same passages are deleted, it would seem, in order to spin the history of the discussion. A continuation of vandalism will merit the attention of an administrator. JNW (talk) 02:29, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since one of the editors vandalizing this talk page (User:Jordan23) is also the editor who created this article, it points to this article being a promotional piece, probably by a single editor with several sockpuppets/meatpuppets. I will probably take this article back to AfD some time soon noting these points and the fact that no new notability has been added. It is really up to the editor creating an article to supply notability/encyclopediacy from the start. It is obvious this aint gonna happen and good faith has gone out the window. The editors vandalizing this talk page should also probably be baned from Wikipedia. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 05:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I have made a request to the creator of the page to make adjustments/clean up.  Otherwise, I will do so.  This page has the requirements and links for citable sources (second and third party) but is not formatted correctly.  This should resolve above issues.Annlanding (talk) 22:15, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have restored the NOTABILITY tag. There are still absolutely no references that support required notability. Annlanding please note: removal of discussion page content (such as you just did here)is just the sort of conduct that will receive negative administrator attention. I would highly recommend you cease such activities. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 22:48, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Repeated deletion of content

message: Anyone tried doing a google search? There are plenty of mentions - NY Times, Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, Independent, Guardian for starters. Some are trivial, but others bring her more into focus. They're mainly because of Robert Hughes to whom she is married, but she played a key part in his recovery after a bad road accident, and that has given her particular attention. It is odd that the thing the sources highlight is absent altogether from the article at the moment. The thing to do is search the sources, then write the article—not vice versa. Tyrenius (talk) 04:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: PS, anyone not sure how to do inline citations (references), the guide is at: Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners. Tyrenius (talk) 04:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Doris Downes re:Robert Hughes bad road accident seems to come under People notable only for one event and therefore may not meet Wikipedias guideline on this (see: WP:BIO1E and WP:NOT#NEWS). re: marriage to Robert Hughes, notability is not transferable. The general lack of these items being in the article may simply be because they are irrelevant. The problem is this article list nothing relevant re: notability, i.e. why is this person in Wikipedia? Its a sentence along the lines of "Doris Downes is a ______ known for __________." Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 17:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest the article is written using all the sources and see what shape it's in then. Tyrenius (talk) 07:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added citations and could not find archival information on awards because most of those award organizations do not give access to archives for any number of reasons (?).  Added reviews from shows and more about the couple- merged info on family from Hughes site.Annlanding (talk) 01:25, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed a ref to Goya as it does not substantiate the dedication, so is not relevant.Tyrenius (talk) 01:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Doing reference for my own book here in the New York Public Library, copy of "Goya" in my hands.  Says: "For Doris With All my Love" and first sentence of acknowledgment: "The Person to whom I owe most in writing this book is Doris Downes, who gave me the strength to do it after a near-fatal car crash.....and so on".  Annlanding (talk) 16:13, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not disputing that's what's in the book, just that the online ref supplied is no good to substantiate that, as it doesn't mention the dedication. You need to do a ref to the print book with author, publisher, ISBN, page no. or whatever. Please read User_talk:Annlanding#Guide_to_referencing.  Tyrenius (talk) 19:42, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I see what you mean.  I'll change that- also think the lead is too short.  Am working on a bio of another art-related person.  Can I  send to you after sandboxing?  thanksAnnlanding (talk) 19:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Please note the lead section should be a summary of content that exists in the main article.  It should not be written as an introduction. Tyrenius (talk) 23:14, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That is exactly right and points to the obvious problem, the article supplies no notability, therefore the lead doesn't summarize it. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 16:18, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: References 2

message: Material that is referenced from a reliable source should not be deleted, just because an editor doesn't like it. See WP:NNC. Tyrenius (talk) 07:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Should be encyclopedic content. That her father taught her how to draw is trivia. If you disagree please demonstrate how this is relevant. Wikipedia is open to editing, importnat to acknowledge. One must resist article-tending, my friend.ROxBo (talk) 09:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "If you disagree please demonstrate how this is relevant". I ask once again. A rhetorical question us not an answer. Also please stop dropping guidelines everywhere, just tedious. (Yes, yes, we all bide by them, but yes, contantly bracketing them is WP:tedious.) Perhaps you can illustrate why this fact is worth including and referencing, any more than what her favourite colour is (colour is also important for artists, yes I admit, but is DD's favourite colour important/notable?).ROxBo (talk) 02:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't made a rhetorical question: I've made a statement. I will say it again more simply:  where, how and when an artist learnt to draw is relevant in an article about that artist. I draw attention to guidelines, because your actions and comments suggest you may not be familiar with some of them, instead editing according to your own ideas of how it should be done. Tyrenius (talk) 03:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of referenced material

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified