Talk:List of jazz tunes

message: Interesting with a list of jazz pieces, but what should be the criteria for being on the list? It would, of course, be meaningless to have a list of all jazz pieces ever made. Should it be groundbreaking pieces? The best pieces?
Pharaohmø 14:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criteria for List 

message: It would, of course, be meaningless to have a list of all jazz pieces ever made. Should it be groundbreaking pieces? The best pieces?
I agree, only the peices that were important to the history of jazz or popular jazz songs should be added. There is alsoanother problem: The links in this article tend to lead to different articles with the same name or disambugations. The links should always end at the exact article.
:Baltimore Oriole is a good example of this bad linking. It goes to an album by George Harrison. His cover is significant, but not necessarily the most important. If it has to go to a generic page, it should go to something about Hoagy Carmichael...JECompton (talk) 16:22, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linking 

message: I deleted "Epitaph" from the Mingus sections. It's a 90 minute suite, and certainly not a jazz standard. I also deleted the Bob Graettinger section. Did anyone really perform his songs besides Stan Kenton? Apple Christmas 16:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Items Removed 

message: I think the idea behind this page is fundamentally flawed. Listing standards by "jazz" composers would leave out all the Tin Pan Alley guys who composed many of (most of?) the real jazz standards. I also think that without linking each song to a page about that song, this whole list will be meaningless. It would just be a list of song titles, and what good would that do anyone? Perhaps the article should be deleted? Apple Christmas 16:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem about Tin Pan Alley standards was fixed when List of mainstream jazz standards was merged here. Jafeluv (talk) 12:51, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gershwin, Kern, Rodgers & Hart, etc.? 

message: A list of jazz titles is not meaningless, especially if it is categorized correctly. The list is also useful to people like me who research meaningless bits of data in order to write stories, or two people wishing to look at a reference list of musicians alongside the songs they wrote. The way I see it, however, is that the list should be organized by way of person or person(s) most responsible for the creation of the song. In this case, the Tin Pan Alley boys would have their own section IF it wasn't just one of them for creating the song.DaedalusMachina 17:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Purpose

message: I found it very useful as I'm not really sure where to find various Jazz artists anyplace else.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.7.106 (talk) 00:25, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: I like this list

message: Whether through sloppiness on the part of album annotators, bad communication from the artist, or outright deception, there is a substantial list of tunes where a writer is either omitted from the publishing credits or substituted altogether. For example:
Rue Chaptal/Royal Roost/Tenor Madness (as by Fats Navarro, Charlie Parker, Sonny Rollins, and many others), Steeplechase/Easy Swing (as by Charlie Parker, Wardell Gray), Eronel (a tune by Idrees Sulieman and Argonne Thornton a.k.a. Sadik Hakim with a small contribution from Thelonious Monk that is usually attributed soley to Monk), Tuxedo Junction/Artillerie Lourde (Erskine Hawkins tune "borrowed" by Django Reinhardt during a period when Nazi occupiers suppressed American swing tunes), St. Thomas (a traditional melody usually attributed to Sonny Rollins), Milestones, Donna Lee, Rifftide, Crazeology, Bouncing with Bud/Bebop in Pastel, Fool's Fancy/Wail, Four and Tune Up.
I guess the page could include sections on 
1.) traditional tunes attributed to Jazz musicians (i.e. "St. Thomas")
2.) Jazz tunes of undisputed authorship known under multiple titles (i.e. "Sid's Delight/Tadd's Delight") 
3.) Jazz Tunes known under two different titles, each attributed to different writers (i.e. "Steeplechase / Easy Swing" or "Royal Roost / Tenor Madness") 
4.) Jazz tunes where all writers are not commonly acknowledged (i.e. "Eronel", or half the famous pieces by Duke Ellington)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.166.246 (talk) 20:10, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Related list that could be created for Wikipedia: Jazz tunes of disputed authorship and/or known under multiple titles

message: A list of references to cite and expand the list:
*Jazz Standards (February 1, 1998). Hal Leonard Corporation. 
*The Real Book (September 1, 2004). Hal Leonard Corporation.  (Vols. 1-3)
*Aebersold, Jamey. Jamey Aebersold Play-A-Along Series. Vols. 1-120
*The New Real Book. Vols. 1-3. Sher Music Company.
*The Standards Real Book. Sher Music Company.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dissolve (talk • contribs) 18:30, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: I'm pretty sure Clifford Brown was still alive in 1937 and that this song was written and published much later than the date listed (1937).  Can someone please help me fix this?  I believe "I Remember Clifford" should be moved to the 1950's section with 1957 as the correct year that Benny Golson composed the song.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gadjoproject (talk • contribs) 17:21, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch. The tune is copyright 1957 (renewed in 1985). I moved it to reflect this. dissolvetalk 18:55, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  I Remember Clifford 1937???  More like 1957, right? 

message: This article is a list without criteria or citations? What makes something a JAZZ standard? I'd imagine one useful form of criteria would be if the song appeared in more than one of the commonly used Fake Books. At least that way, there is some way to support a claim. Kingturtle = (talk) 16:59, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  criteria? 

message: Songs with multiple titles 
An example, these titles are all the same song:
* Aunt Hagar's Blues
* Aunt Hagar's Children
* Aunt Hagar's Children's Blues
---
Songs with unusual spellings
* Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye
---
Songs with "gender issues" - by that I mean he/she and man/woman/girl.
I couldn't find a good he/she example.
* The Man I Love
If it's sung by a man it's "The Girl I Love"
---
Note: people often search lists with ctrl-f so if it were up to me I'd make the list like this:
"The common title" ["Changed gender (etc?) title"]
Example
* The Man I Love [The Girl I Love]
"The common title" ["Common (modern) spelling"]
* Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye [Every Time We Say Goodbye]
How do other Wikipedia list pages deal with these problems?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by AllThatJazz2012 (talk • contribs) 16:25, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Two and one-half years later, my ad hoc solution is to italicize alternative titles (i.e. ones that are significantly different from the title of the Wikipedia article). Ardric47 (talk) 16:40, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I italicized all of the duplicate songs that I noticed, and clicked through all of the titles to at least make sure that they had reasonable targets. Some of the links are to albums when they should be to songs, and some could still point to other songs (or albums) that aren't "jazz standards," but have coincidental titles. Ardric47 (talk) 20:19, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Good job. Links to albums are OK, but ideally they should be red linked as they're standards in their own right and should have articles. Yes, a system like The Man I Love [The Girl I Love] would be good with alternative names. I was actually considered turning the list into a table with a year/composer/original key and summary type of thing but haven't the energy at the moment.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:33, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  How about a table? Or is the list far, far too big? I've never seen such a gigantic table. Are there any? It's a huge change to the page. If I (or whoever) wanted to add a table - what's the procedure? Do I start a new section on the talk page or...? How can I learn how to make tables? Googling wikipedia and table is going to be no fun at all.♦ AllThatJazz2012 (talk) 11:07, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues about titles 

message: I think secondhandsongs.com should be added to "References" or "External links".
Why?
It's a site for covers - example: Easy Living. The list can be sorted by "performer" or "release date".
I didn't make the change since I think some people might consider secondhandsongs.com to be "controversial" because the site isn't dedicated to jazz. 
Also, I don't know which place is best for the link: "References" or "External links".
If you like the idea - you can add it yourself. If I don't get a response in the next couple weeks - I'm going to go ahead and add it myself.
AllThatJazz2012 (talk) 14:45, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  References / External link idea 

message: @User:Dr Blofeld. The list dispute tab was added for genuine reasons as there doesn't appear to be one. As this is your article could you kindly explain the list criteria (as per previous requests in the talk section). There is a high number of red-links. Ajf773 (talk) 17:39, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  List dispute. Tab removed 

message: It's entirely empty: Template talk:Jazz-composition-stub. Wouldn't it be good to have the song stubs listed there? 
I know basically nothing about stubs so if this is a stupid suggestion - please ignore it!
AllThatJazz2012 (talk) 21:31, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  About "Template talk:Jazz-composition-stub" 

message: I'm not finding Do'in the Pig (or other variations on the name like Doing the Pig) on Spotify, or even searching around the web. I found some backing track, but nothing to suggest this is a widely known or performed jazz standard by any set of criteria. Would some jazz aficionado confirm this and remove it from the 'D' section if so?
JECompton (talk) 15:45, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  non-standards in 'D' section 

message: Let It Be by The Beatles is certainly a standard. But a Jazz Standard? Okay that I remove it?
KuifjeNL (talk) 21:26, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let It Be 

message: Hi there. I removed all red links (with some exceptions) because the actual standards are getting swamped in it and no one gets anything out of it. What good does a title without any reference, it is just a name. At first there has to be an article on the composition, then, with background and a history, the song should be listed as a (proven) standard. Ted Gioia's "The Jazz Standards" comprises between 250 to 300 songs. The article on the "Real Book" doesn't tell a number, but how much will there be? Anyway, reading the story to it reveals a somewhat arbitrary selection. 
It hurts me too removing all the wonderful compositions by Wayne Shorter. They are admired, but how many of them are really often played and recorded by other musicians. This list should not be a list of individual beloved songs. There is more to it. MenkinAlRire 22:31, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radically removed red links 

message: When I clicked on E.S.P., it took me to the page about the Miles Davis Album, but there isn't any info there specific to the song, or for the various covers of it. I'd like to know more about it since it seems like an important standard, so someone please write up more on that page or on a new song page. Thanks if you can!
JECompton (talk) 14:53, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Any info on E.S.P.? 

message: The Eternal Triangle link goes to some band, not a page about the song. I don't know if the song page exists, but I wouldn't know enough to be able to add it.
--JECompton (talk) 20:44, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eternal Triangle link incorrect 

message: The link to Evergreen is to the song composed by Barbara Streisand, but that song doesn't sound like jazz to me. I'm having trouble finding jazz covers of the song, either. It sounds more like easy listening, but not the kind I'd expect to hear on a jazz easy-listening station, even. Please, someone w/ more jazz knowledge remove this if you agree.
--JECompton (talk) 17:50, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evergreen really a jazz standard? 

message: This article currently tries (and poorly at that) to cover the work of five lists (List of 1930s jazz standards and etc.). Should this not be redirected to the parent page which even states in the lede "there is no definitive list of jazz standards"? That page suitably navigates the lists by decade. Why? I Ask (talk) 19:02, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment if there are concerns that there will no longer be an A–Z list, why not simply add standards to both :Category:Jazz standards and :Category:1910s jazz standards (or whatever the year)? Why? I Ask (talk) 19:06, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

text: No it doesn't try to cover what is in five lists. It is intended to be a comprehensive A-Z of jazz standards for convenience in its own right, the problem is that some editors are afraid of red links and removed them. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:06, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, the fact that list entries don't have to be in themselves notable is not obvious, unlike the fact that the definition of "jazz standard" appears completely ambiguous. The only criterion for entry on this list is that some or another editor has decided on their own that a song belongs on it. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 21:39, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Ideally entries on the list should have a reliable source describing it as a standard. There are a lot of minor standards though, which might not have sources that modern professional jazz musicians sometimes play (like some of Monk's, Coltrane's and Mingus's less well known tunes, or once had numerous jazz musicians playing the tune but it went out of style. You're more likely going to see Trane's Grand Central in a jazz club today than something like Fidgety Feet for instance.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:45, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

text: @Dr. Blofeld: I mean, won't every jazz standard also be assigned to a decade leading to unnecessary duplication? If something is on one list then not the other, then there's an issue. Why? I Ask (talk) 04:59, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect to [[Jazz standard]]? 

message: Now we have removed "standard" from the title, this should resolve the valid disputes over inclusion criteria we had in the past... This could now become a much more comprehensive list of songs and compositions without worrying if it's really a jazz "standard". 
German Wiki has quite a good list and mentions the original composer/writer and year. I think we could do that too. All I would say is avoid red linking entries which you don't think could ever have its own article... Before adding an entry, I suggest checking the secondhandsongs.com site and seeing how many covers are listed for it. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Inclusion criteria. I think a minimum of five different covers featured on Secondhandsongs.com or/and album recordings or live jazz performances on YouTube for evidence that the tunes were or are still played, or/and being featured in any of the six volumes of the Real Books. Check on that site before adding a tune. Obviously we don't want a list of every original composition by every jazz artist, but this can certainly develop into a very comprehensive list of tunes now without worrying about if it's a standard. Most of the tunes I'm adding could have an article, but I'll avoid red linking until the article is blue linked.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:11, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Making this list more comprehensive