Talk:New Jersey wine

message: There are 33 wineries in eleven counties, not 17 wineries in 8 counties as previously stated.
http://www.newjerseywines.com/wineries.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Woodentjk (talk • contribs) 02:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  33 wineries in Garden State Wine Association. 

message: I thoroughly object merging this encyclopedic entry about the wine industry of New Jersey into the WP:ADVERT, mega-list Wineries, breweries and distilleries of New Jersey articles. We have encyclopedia articles about every US states (see Missouri wine, Washington wine, Texas wine, Delaware wine, etc) and on Wikipedia we strive to keep these articles focused only on the encyclopedic aspects because Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a wine guide. This new article is pure advertizement and incredibly inappropriate to merge. AgneCheese/Wine 16:59, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Objection to merge

message: ===July 2012 comments===
I envision a format similar to New York wine or California wine with the following sections:
* Introduction
* History -- including analysis of pre-prohibition, probhition, 1930-1981 under restriction, and modern era
* Climate and geography - terroir issues.
* Wine regions -- discussion of what makes the AVAs unique, etc.
* grapes and wines -- talk of grapes grown in the area (the ones done well), state's wine styles, sparkling/desert wines, fruit wines (especially cranberry, blueberry and peach) 
* production issues ranging from the debate of local grapes vs. grapes and juices from other areas, quality issues, legal restriction (what defines a winery, licensure, the 3-acre vineyard minimum, zoning issues)
* see also / references / external links
Discussion/suggestions? --ColonelHenry (talk) 17:03, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Note to self: Add a link/mention under fruit wines section to Laird & Company even though they are a distillery because it requires fermenting apples into wine that is later distilled.  And since the list article is likely to reformatted or deleted and leaving it an orphan. --ColonelHenry (talk) 19:17, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's pretty much the format the article has now, with some additional sections. I say your proposal is fine, if those sections can be fleshed out to a size that merits separate sections. ~Amatulić (talk) 21:15, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: * I started playing with it last week, so it's starting to coalesce. I'll find enough to make it worth the sections. --ColonelHenry (talk) 23:04, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed revision

message: I envision a format similar to New York wine or California wine with the following sections:
* Introduction
* History -- including analysis of pre-prohibition, probhition, 1930-1981 under restriction, and modern era
* Climate and geography - terroir issues.
* Wine regions -- discussion of what makes the AVAs unique, etc.
* grapes and wines -- talk of grapes grown in the area (the ones done well), state's wine styles, sparkling/desert wines, fruit wines (especially cranberry, blueberry and peach) 
* production issues ranging from the debate of local grapes vs. grapes and juices from other areas, quality issues, legal restriction (what defines a winery, licensure, the 3-acre vineyard minimum, zoning issues)
* see also / references / external links
Discussion/suggestions? --ColonelHenry (talk) 17:03, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Note to self: Add a link/mention under fruit wines section to Laird & Company even though they are a distillery because it requires fermenting apples into wine that is later distilled.  And since the list article is likely to reformatted or deleted and leaving it an orphan. --ColonelHenry (talk) 19:17, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's pretty much the format the article has now, with some additional sections. I say your proposal is fine, if those sections can be fleshed out to a size that merits separate sections. ~Amatulić (talk) 21:15, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: * I started playing with it last week, so it's starting to coalesce. I'll find enough to make it worth the sections. --ColonelHenry (talk) 23:04, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: July 2012 comments

message: Outline for facilitating ongoing revision--ColonelHenry (talk) 15:24, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Content outline (July 2013)

message: On 4 February 2013 (server time 07:51 5 February 2013), I removed the infobox for this article (seen on right).  A copy of how the article looked before I removed the infobox can be found here.
Note that I am not partisan on the issue of infoboxes...I am neither for nor against them and tend to lean toward using them when appropriate and functional.  I do not think an infobox is appropriate for this article, and lay out my reasons here. 
* The infobox that is available for wine region articles was being used. But while revising the article, I was unhappy with it.  After much consideration, I deem that in its current form (4 February 2013),  is neither useful, informative, or functional and I believe it does a disservice to the article.  If the infobox provided a more accurate, and comprehensive understanding of the wine industry, I would reconsider.  However, the infoboxes drawbacks are:
:* repeating that the state was founded in 1787 is an event in political history that is largely irrelevant to wine and wineries.  In fact, it's technically incorrect, as 1787 is only the date of admission to the union under the Federal Constitution approved by a convention in Annapolis and submitted to the 13 states for ratification beginning in 1787.  New Jersey became independent under the state constitution of 1776.  Not that it's really important.
:* the infobox says that the "years of wine industry" were 1767-present...which ignores that 1767 was just the date two colonial planters were recognized (they likely planted before 1764), and ignores that the industry was largely a failure and not revived until the 1870s. Prohibition killed the industry again, 1919-1980, and only in the last few years has it experienced real growth.  This parameter doesn't cover that nuance at all and implies that we've had a healthy industry for 250 years when it wasn't the case.
:* Type parameter: U.S. State does not equal wine region.  AVAs do, but this infobox would be more appropriate on the AVA article.
:* Total area: 8,729 square miles (22,608 km2)...the entire area of the most urban state in the country doesn't give a fair idea of the wine region that the state is not.
:* Grapes produced...there are about 40 varieties listed.  This could better be discussed in the article, as the infobox isn't able to fit a discussion of varieties and quantities grown.  There's much more Cabernet Franc grown than Fredonia...by orders of multitude...but the infobox gives them equal time and one could take the impression that Fredonia is a popular grape. it's not, and neither are many of the listed "grapes produced".  Accuracy implies not giving false impressions.
:* Why is "number of wineries" at the extreme bottom of the infobox?  This actually is more important than most of the information above...save acreage and the three AVAs.
As for Wikipedia policy issues regarding Infoboxes, the decision to not place an infobox here is because:
* Per WP:IBX: The use of infoboxes is neither required nor prohibited for any article. Whether to include an infobox, which infobox to include, and which parts of the infobox to use, is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article.
* Per WP:DIB
Other considerations:
* As of 4 February 2013, French wine did not have one.  It had pictures. This article would benefit from pictures.
Please consider this, and try not to put an infobox where one doesn't belong or doesn't improve the article. Thank you. --ColonelHenry (talk) 04:30, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox: Why I removed it from this article. 

message: Pretty outstanding article. Very impressed with the referencing and amount of work that has gone into this. AgneCheese/Wine 23:09, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: * Thank you very much for your kind comments. --ColonelHenry (talk) 00:09, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Just want to say

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on New Jersey wine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130621005800/http://www.newjerseywines.com/wineries.html to http://www.newjerseywines.com/wineries.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140427010307/http://law.njstatelib.org/law_files/njlh/lh1981/L1981c280.pdf to http://law.njstatelib.org/law_files/njlh/lh1981/L1981c280.pdf
*Replaced archive link http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pQ-9vO7WXFYJ:online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204720204577131143989190310.html+http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204720204577131143989190310.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us with https://web.archive.org/web/20120714001552/http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204720204577131143989190310.html on http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204720204577131143989190310.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150922044022/http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/33-intoxicating-liquors/1-10.html to http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/33-intoxicating-liquors/1-10.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080127115948/http://www.iwineinstitute.com/ava/avabystate.asp to http://www.iwineinstitute.com/ava/avabystate.asp
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:33, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on New Jersey wine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110615161706/http://www.co.cumberland.nj.us/content/163/237/651.aspx to http://www.co.cumberland.nj.us/content/163/237/651.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:22, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018)