Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philosophy/Archive 4

message: I'd like to set up a barnstar (see Wikipedia:Barnstars on Wikipedia) specifically for excellence in writing or editing of a philosophy-related article. I thought about using this picture of Sophia surrounded by the Arts, but... now I'm hoping that someone with a bent to graphic design might come up with something better. 
If others think it worthwhile, I'll propose it at Wikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals.
Banno 21:02, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
::
Hi, cool idea.  When I was putting together the Philosopher template (below), I found this alternate graphic - if you download it you can get it in quite good quality. FranksValli 03:06, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It'd be easy to take a generic barnstar and photoshop a bust of Socrates onto the middle. --- Skubicki 05:50, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barnstar 

message: What about this?  
(hey, I'm no graphic artist - you are welcome to have a go yourself)
I suggest we use this to acknowledge good work in the area of philosophy. Perhaps:
* Set up a page for nominations and voting.
* Only participants in WikiProject Philosophy are eligible to vote (ie, those who have their names listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy/participants
* Those who get over some minimum (say, 5?) number of votes receive the award, and will have the star placed on their user page, and their names recorded for eternity on the Project page. 
Comments? Banno 02:38, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
I think the idea is wonderful, and the several symbols shown are fine.  I myself wish there were something with a good representation of Socrates, since I would imagine admiration for him as the archetypical philosopher is widespread. Really, Banno, I think you're providing some much needed leadership here, and you are to be congratulated. icut4u
::It'd be easy to take a generic barnstar and photoshop a bust of Socrates onto the middle. --- Skubicki 05:50, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Star of Sophia

message: Hello,
Please notice this project. 
I hope that the List of publications in philosophy will be adopted by the philosophy porject.
Thanks,APH 06:18, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Science pearls| Science pearls]]

message: * 
* 
The aforementioned articles have been nominated for deletion. Uncle G 00:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Articles nominated for deletion

message: Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any articles on philosophy? We are also looking for FAs like Free will as well. Please post your suggestions here. Cheers!--Shanel 06:24, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project

message: The Identity (philosophy) page needs a cleanup from somebody familiar with philosophy. I've tried to clean up this page and sort out the Identity page, mostly because they struck me (and other visitors) to be disorganized to an extreme, but I lack the subject expertise needed to take the task any further.  Regards Bryan 03:33, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Identity (philosophy)

message: The page Jean-Pierre Ady Fenyo needs to be looked at; it largely seems to take Fenyô's claims at face value. See his website, http://www.infinitysociety.org/index.html , for background information.
Has anyone heard of this guy? Should the page go to AfD as being about a non-notable philosophaster? Do any recognized philosophers take him seriously? (If not, he could still be notable as a social phenomenon, if enough New Yorkers recognize him, but the article would need a rewrite.) --Trovatore 02:55, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Jean-Pierre Ady Fenyo

message: Whoever thought of redirecting Portal:Philosophy to the category is a genius.  This will allow us to set up any kind of directory system we want (above the actual Category) and head wayward readers off at the pass.  As you are no doubt alertly aware, the category system in Wikipedia is extremely cumbersome, easily corrupted, and not so easily repaired/maintained/updated.  The portal, on the other hand, which sits directly above the category, can be used to provide a centralized replacement article directory system, or at least serve as the front door to one. Go for it! 06:30, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Combining the Portal:Philosophy and Category:Philosophy was brilliant!

message: Hi. I'm Go for it! 06:30, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: How can I get a listing of all subpages, including an entire subpage tree?

message: Searching through a long article for all the outgoing links is time consuming.  Is there a command or quick procedure for getting a listing of such links?  Go for it! 06:30, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Is there a way to get a list of outgoing links?

message: This would be even better.  It would serve as a tool to help find new philosophy articles that we could then include in our linking structure (imbedded article links, see alsos, topic lists, categories, and templates).  Go for it! 06:30, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Is there a way to get an outgoing links tree?

message: I touched up the portal a bit.  Needs more work, but it's a start.  Let me know what you think. Go for it! 06:30, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: I gave the portal a face lift.  How do you like it?

message: I've tried to find the links from all those articles, and I couldn't.  The links are hidden/imbedded somewhere -- it seems to have something to do with Plato's picture.  I'd like to disconnect those links to make "What links to here" a better tracking tool.  Right now it tells us almost nothing, because it tells us too much.  All those stub articles can be tracked from the stub's template page.  Can anyone help me out here? 
Go for it! 09:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: How exactly do all those links (in "What links to here") connect to WikiProject Philosophy?

message: I don't know is this is a commonly known feature, but it sure shocked the hell out of me...
When templates include subheadings, those templates can be updated by editing the subheading section in any of the articles that the template is in!
This is a double-edged sword, and I'm still learning the in's and outs of this useful trick.  One problem is that in order to make shared "See also" lists worthwhile, such as a standard reference list of lists to be displayed at the end of each list, all the lists need to be included, which means the current page's listing will be listed in itself -- I've had to include a special message to prevent users from deleting the links to the current page (which are bolded and inactive when on that page but disappears from every page when deleted from any), and if users erase the dead link on every page the template is displayed, they will erase the entire list of lists!
I've found a couple ways to disable this feature while still using the subheadings, but they only work well in specific situations.  Check out the See also sections in the Philosophy main article and in all the lists listed therein to get a gander at the new system.  I plan to write up some instructions once I've learned more about the benefits, applications, and limitations of this tool.
Go for it! 09:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: UNEXPECTED DISCOVERY: Templates can be made to update from any page!

message: I've been building a nav system (started it even before I got my username) to see and traverse the structure of philosophy articles on Wikipedia.  So far, it has the following components:
*Philosophy Quick Topic Guide (template) - it's fairly well refined, but runs the risk of growing too large.  Our job will be to keep it streamlined.  It needs to be kept to a maximum number of lines, standardized to a specific screen resolution.   In the early stages of development of this template, it got included in far too many articles, but will suffice until more refined templates are designed to take its place in the lower tiers of the philosophy hierarchy.
*Lists - I've created the List of basic philosophical topics and the List of philosophical isms, and have been gathering (into the other parts of this nav system) all the general philosophy topic lists.  Please let me know if there are any I missed.
*"See also" templates - these include a list of philosophical lists and a list of general (top of the hierarchy) topics.  So far, I've placed these templates in the Philosophy main article, and on all the general philosophy topic lists that I could find.
I've found the Category system much too tedious to build a significant structure, and I've found that other users rake over whatever garden I've tended in short order.  The link system outlined above, by contrast, has so far shown itself to be quite stable (though the verdict is still out on the "See also" templates).
I've been linking these all together in various ways, and I'm currently in the process of hooking them into the top of the philosophy article hierarchy (Portal:Philosophy, Philosophy main article, other general philosophy articles, the general philosophy lists, etc.)  I'm almost done, and just have the "See also" templates to hook-in to the Portal (with some added formatting, of course).
Go for it! 09:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Project: Integrated Navigation System for Philosophy

message: The goals of this project include:
#Improve the presence of WikiProject Philosophy throughout the subject of philosophy, to get more people cooperating in an organized way on well-organized projects.
#Gather all the names of all the philosophy-related topics in one place.  As complete as the philosophy topics list is, it still doesn't list them all.  How can we fix this?
#Develop and man a system to find new philosophy articles as they are created.  In order to hook them into our nav system, we need to know what they are.
#Implement a more explicit uplink strategy than "What links here" and categories.  That is, a better way for users to get to parent topics, without having to wade through the article's text to do it.
#Build an integrated system of navigation templates and portals, in successive tiers, making use of existing templates and portals as appropriate so as not to duplicate efforts.  I still don't know how this will all fit together.  It looks likely that the templates will be the glue for articles, and articles will be the glue for templates.
:All of which is the task of the categories. Banno 20:29, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Integrated Nav System Goals

message: We're actually a WikiTeam.
Go for it! 09:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A Wikiproject is what we are. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Banno 20:31, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject is a misnomer

message: Would renaming the page have any detrimental effects?
Go for it! 09:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: yes; we are a project, not a team. The notion of "team" implies a common purpose and method that simply aren't present - and I would argue aren't desirable.  Editors looking for support in philosophy tasks will work through the Wipiprojects pages to find us. Also, the philosophy project already has a large presence across the Wiki, a change of name would be confusing. Banno 20:35, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Nope. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:04, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Does a "WikiProject" page have any special properties?

message: There are color codes sprinkled throughout Wikipedia's source pages.  How does one find out what colors belong to what numbers?
Is there a list or tool that you could direct me to?
Then we can make sure all our project members have easy access to it as well.
Go for it! 12:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Where are the color code definitions?

message: Please see Ionian School and the related AfD page. Karol 14:21, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ionian school dilemna 

message: Since someone roughly doubled the length of the TOC after I asked my question last night, let me ask it again: Has
anyone heard of Jean-Pierre Ady Fenyo? Should his page be deleted? See discussion above at #Jean-Pierre Ady Fenyo. --Trovatore 16:37, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put the article on AfD, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jean-Pierre Ady Fenyo. Please contribute if you have any information. (I nominated it with an abstention; I'm not convinced it needs to be deleted but think the case for his notability has not been made.) --Trovatore 20:25, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Jean-Pierre Ady Fenyo, bis

message: Your participation is appreciated. --- Charles Stewart 20:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Peer review/Logic/archive1]] 

message: I've rv'ed the application of the template to the logic article, on the grounds that it is a great unwieldly thing inappropriate to a topic with major interdisciplinary aspects. --- Charles Stewart 00:33, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Template:Philosophy Quick Topic Guide]]

message: Hi there. The article on knowledge covers a broad range of fields and approaches to knowledge and is not really the right article for this project. Please change it on your lists to epistemology which IS the best article for the philosophical study of knowledge. Sbwoodside 01:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: where? Which list?Banno 20:37, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Template:Philosophy_%28navigation%29 ... it's been changed already though Sbwoodside 01:04, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please change [[knowledge]] to [[epistemology]] 

message: While I was waking up today with my cup of coffee, before my brain started working well enough to really type sentences, I noticed that most of the philosophy articles have no images.  I thought to myself in the old Cartesian way, "hey, self (if you exist - of course you exist, I'm thinking, and you're me)!  Maybe it would help us all to have a central repository for philosophy-related images!"  So I dutifully cut-and-pasted the brand new tag :Category:Philosophy images to all three philosophy images I could find (hopefully there are more out there).  I also added the new tag :Category:Images of philosophers to all the images of philosophers I felt like looking at.  There are, I'm sure, plenty still which are untagged.
So here's my first call to everyone: If you happen to notice an image in a philosophy article that's not of a philosopher, add the tag :Category:Philosophy images to it!  And likewise with images of philosophers and the :Category:Images of philosophers tag!
Here's my second call: If you can think of a good graphical way to show what some bit of philosophy is all about (like the duckrabbit!  Ooh!  I wonder if that's lying around the wiki!), draw it up, or leave me a message on my talk page explaining what its all about, and I'll try to draw it up!  Then add the tag :Category:Philosophy images to it!
And my final call: Check :Category:Philosophy images from time to time - it may end up having that image which perfectly explains what, for whatever reason, a blurb of text just can't!  And for all your images-of-philosophers needs, check out :Category:Images of philosophers!  Okay, I'm done.  -Seth Mahoney 21:42, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Bloody brilliant! One reason that there are few philosophy feature articles is lack of images - sometimes I wonder if this is a sort of systemic bias against us - so anything that can help to avoid every philosophy page having a picture of Socrates or Plato is certainly welcome! Banno 21:57, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Added :Image:Kmarx.jpg. Infinity0 22:04, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philosophy images 

message: It's rather cumbersome to place pointers at the bottom of articles, so that they are listed in categories.  It would be faster if one could just edit a category's list.  Is there any way to do this?  Go for it! 00:15, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no way to directly edit the list - adding category tags to articles is the only way to do it.  But! There are bots that can convert lists (as in, the "List of..." articles on Wikipedia) to categories.  There's got to be some page or other that you can request that sort of thing, if you've got a list in mind.  Otherwise, AFAIK, doing it by hand is the only way.  -Seth Mahoney 17:43, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a way to directly edit the categories? Or a fast way to add the cat links to files?