Talk:El Shorouk Academy

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thread_title: File:8531269.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: There seems to be some edit warring about including content from this news report, but edit summaries are not the best place to have discussions about complicated content. A news article about an event is not typically considered a WP:PRIMARY source (although they sometimes can be depending on context). News outlets are a central part of Wikipedia, so removing something just because it's cited to a newspaper is never going to work. Is there some other reason to consider Daily News Egypt unreliable? At a glance it looks fine to me. I see no reason to think that these protests didn't happen. Whether they should be mentioned in the article is worth discussing, but this shouldn't be dismissed just because of the source. Grayfell (talk) 00:49, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Though the event was a onetime event, I don't believe its good to remove from an article so short. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 01:04, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: As a possible additional reference for this, I *think* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltB0GHmuWQU is a News Television show with a segment aboutabout what happened. But I don't speak or read Arabic. :( Would bringing in a Wikipedian who speaks/reads arabic be useful?Naraht (talk) 01:05, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Although English sources are more convenient (for the English-language Wikipedia) reliable Arabic sources would be helpful. Lacking any other information at all, I would mildly side with removing the incident as lacking in long-term significance, but I'm not going to do that without more context. Saying the protest was attended by 500 students would be a lot more informative if the article said how many students the school has, for example. Judging WP:DUE involves the whole picture. Grayfell (talk) 01:11, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I was looking for more news articles about this academy, and I couldn't find anything else other than what Mohamed1900q keeps removing. It'd be nice to have those Arabic links translated to English. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 01:25, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

text: Yes, we already know that. What does that have to do with the protests? Grayfell (talk) 18:46, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: While Wikipedia is different from Wikinews, by Mohamed1900q's standard, Wikipedia would have no significant information on either Brexit, EgyptAir Flight 804 or the United States presidential election, 2016. (And probably not on United States presidential election, 2012 either.)Naraht (talk) 19:05, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

text: I'm unclear on what you mean here.Naraht (talk) 21:45, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia articles sometimes include things from newspapers. This article can be about both education and political events. Grayfell (talk) 01:24, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia articles also include vandalism and lots of other things.  Secondary coverage from newspapers is acceptable, but not primary coverage as seen here.  Find retrospective coverage from a reliable newspaper, and that will be fine, but news coverage from a newspaper needs to be excised ruthlessly.  If you want to write about words, rather than about the concepts to which they refer, you go to Wiktionary, and if you want to write about newsy topics, rather than about things with secondary coverage, you go to Wikinews.  Neither one belongs here.  Nyttend (talk) 04:01, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really agree that this is unambiguously primary, certainly not from a journalistic standpoint. We could debate what that means, but that's a distraction. WP:PRIMARY does allow the use of such sources for factual statements without interpretation. I agree that brief contemporary news articles (however they're classified) are very poor for establishing due weight, and I still don't think this belongs in the article, but I think this source is usable if we decide that it does. As I said, if we had any other sources about this, or about the school in general, it would be simple. WP:DUE mentions "proportion", but we have basically nothing to balance this against. Right now, this is the most prominent thing we know about this school, which is the real problem. Grayfell (talk) 04:54, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

text: enough - you've had this explained to you multiple times above. We're not going to remove something just because it paints the article subject in a negative light. Now, if you have a policy based reason as to remove it, please state your case --  samtar talk or stalk 07:30, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

text: Just to clarify, because you've not got your own way, you're going to find other articles and add "" to them? I suggest you grow up --  samtar talk or stalk 08:03, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

text: Mohamed1900q, Wikipedia is no censored per WP:CENSOR, However, Wikipedia is not a website to do anything you want or be disruptive. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 21:07, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

text: Do you have a specific reason that you believe that either Daily News Egypt is an unreliable source, or specifically so in this case?Naraht (talk) 13:57, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

text: This is an example of why Google Translate should NOT be used for complicated content. Parts of this are almost word salad, but I don't see anything here that says protests didn't take place. The specific details of why they were protesting may be contested by the school, but the protest happened. Including the schools response is an option, but the translation would have to be better. Grayfell (talk) 21:35, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Student protests