Portal talk:Norway/Archive 1

message: Suddenly from out of the blue this page FUBARed itself. Stupid as I am, I cannot remember the proper enchantment to make the page straight again, straight being that boxes and stuff are logically arranged next to eacht other in a visually pleasing formation, and not as a crowd of demented Stukas. Ehjort 21:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FUBARed 

message: How does one update (edit) the contents, as opposed to the structure, of this page? Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 05:37, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I see. You click on the individual edits as opposed to the page edit. Williamborg (Bill) 05:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How does one update (edit) the contents 

message: Anyone else able to lend a hand here? Williamborg (Bill) 01:53, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, just passing by. Lend a hand to what exactly? Portal chores? MURGH disc. 09:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: If you are unable to maintain the portal adequately, you should at least replace the title bar heading "Selected article for month" with simply "Selected article". January has long since passed. __meco 12:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help Needed! 

message: Maybe we can add anniversaries for months like on Portal:Germany? · Dvyjones Talk 08:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anniversaries for months? 

message: *Krag-Jørgensen.  Cirt (talk) 13:15, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Krag-Jørgensen was featured on the portal from July-December 2007. --Aqwis (talk – contributions) 13:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, thanks for letting me know.  If it's alright with you, I'm going to work on getting this portal to Featured Portal Status.  One step will be to randomize lots of sections of the portal, using  (See the Featured Portal, Portal:Film, for an idea of what that looks like) - and at that point we can have several "Selected articles" instead of just one at a time, because everything in the portal will change when you click "show new selections".  I think there is enough Norway-related articles/content on Wikipedia to make this a featured portal, and if that's okay, I'm going to do some work on this portal to try to get it there.  Cirt (talk) 12:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:FA]]/[[WP:TFA]] to use at some point 

message: I went back through Wikipedia:Recent additions, looking for "Did you know" entries to use that are Norway-related, and looked through Wikipedia:Recent additions 202 to Wikipedia:Recent additions 1. Cirt (talk) 23:53, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Note on [[WP:DYK]] section 

message: * Hans Eleonardus Møller 13 June
* Skabo Jernbanevognfabrikk 15 June
* Jørgen Aall 16 June
* Jørgen Wright Cappelen 19 June
* MF Storegut 19 June
* Ulrik Frederik Cappelen 20 June
* Peter Olrog Schjøtt 21 June
* Simon Karenius Høegh 22 June
* Hans Eleonardus Møller, Sr. 22 June
* Wolfgang Wenzel von Haffner 24 June
Manxruler (talk) 23:48, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, this is very helpful.  Cirt (talk) 23:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're very welcome. I think it might be an idea to list the Norwegian DYKs here and then simply update Portal:Norway/DYK say once a month. Manxruler (talk) 01:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you feel like it, and wanted to list next to each date, above, also a Diff/link to the appearance in the T:DYK template, that would be very helpful.  Cirt (talk) 01:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll have a look at that, although I don't really have the time any time soon as I have some travelling to do. Manxruler (talk) 15:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of new DYKs, with date of appearance on the Main Page - June 2008 

message: Here's a list of DYKs since the last update:
Recent additions 221:
* Karl Marthinsen - 3 July
* t:kort - 8 July
* Olvir Hnufa - 10 July
* Gevingåsen Tunnel - 10 July
Recent additions 222:
* Kystekspressen - 15 July
Recent additions 224:
* Herman Bagger - 26 July 
* Jens Lien&Den brysomme mannen (double DYK) - 27 July
* Aksel Hennie&Jonny Vang (double DYK) - 28 July
* Jacob Kielland (1788–1863) - 29 July
Recent additions 225:
* Norwegian National Rail Administration - 5 August
Recent additions 226:
* Urðarbrunnr - 10 August
Recent additions 227:
* Akersbanerne - 15 August
* Tryggve the Pretender - 15 August
Recent additions 228:
* Kristiania Sporveisselskab - 23 August
* Kristiania Elektriske Sporvei - 25 August
* Vippetangen - 26 August
* Oslo Sporveier - 26 August
* O' Horten - 28 August
Recent additions 229:
* Henny Moan - 00:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for adding the links to the Recent additions pages as well - that is indeed very helpful. Will get on updating these. Cirt (talk) 02:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Updated again. Manxruler (talk) 19:51, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I went and created the blank pages with proper layout formatting at Portal:Norway/DYK, next will get to adding in the relevant hooks from above. Cirt (talk) 06:52, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Grand work! :) Manxruler (talk) 11:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! We are one hook shy of a full set for Portal:Norway/DYK/42. Cirt (talk) 21:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

text: That's excellent. One minor thing, though. Due to someone making a mistake over at "Recent additions", Georg Prahl Harbitz (photo and all) didn't show up as he should have at Recent additions 229 and was forgotten. Manxruler (talk) 10:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah thanks for the notice. I will check that out and add it in a new slot Portal:Norway/DYK/43. Cirt (talk) 10:41, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: . Cirt (talk) 10:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You really do brilliant work, Cirt. What the portals would do without you I don't know. :) Manxruler (talk) 11:11, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Many thanks, I appreciate the kind words. Cirt (talk) 11:12, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  DYK update 

message: A Nordic cinema task force has been proposed at WP:FILMS, which would include the cinema of Norway. Interested editors are encouraged to sign up - if there is enough interest, then the task force will be created! Many thanks, Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 18:21, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This note should be left at WP:NORWAY instead - this portal talk page is mainly only for discussion about the portal itself. Cirt (talk) 21:27, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nordic cinema task force 

message: I think this page looks quite nice now. I have just gone through both this and the Bokmål Wikipedia to make sure the list of people who have died so far this year is more or less complete. I haven't looked much at the present portal page, so I leave it to others how it should be presented. __meco (talk) 20:41, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems to be something better discussed instead at the talk page of WP:NORWAY. Cirt (talk) 22:31, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems only logical to me that discussion about the content of the portal should be conducted in this page. __meco (talk) 07:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I see now that I didn't present my case very well in the first post. I am proposing that 2008 in Norway be presented on the portal page. __meco (talk) 07:30, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite sure how it would be represented - the portal already has sections In the news and In this month for things related to news/dates. But more importantly, the entire article 2008 in Norway is unsourced. Cirt (talk) 11:54, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All sourced now. __meco (talk) 15:50, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Having taken a second look at the portal's sections, I must insist that this link would fit perfectly as a static, bulleted, centered link at the bottom of the "In The News" section. For the sake of continuity a parenthesis to (2007) should be placed after it and of course both rotated at New Year. __meco (talk) 17:13, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Having taken a second look at the page 2008 in Norway, it is apparent that the page still has sourcing issues and "citations needed" throughout, that still have yet to be addressed. Cirt (talk) 21:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course they have to be addressed, however, why is this an obstacle to listing this article the way I have proposed? Is there a rationale for applying a different set of standards to this particular page as opposed to other pages? I don't see anywhere a list of requirements to be met before a page can be featured on a portal that states that "All maintenance issues must be resolved before an article can be presented on a portal page". Is this something you singlehandedly have come up with? __meco (talk) 09:08, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems I am able to answer myself. Yes, the inclusion standards for portals require that an article has no clean-up tags. That's generally a tough one to meet, but in this case, it should not be difficult. I'll give a heads-up as soon as the page is up to standards. __meco (talk) 09:12, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. __meco (talk) 10:14, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[2008 in Norway]] 

message: New list of DYKs since the last update:
Recent additions 230:
* Aril Edvardsen - 01:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yikes, I am going to need some help with these. I will set up the layout/templated blank DYK pages, and we can go from there. Cirt (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure. Tell me how and I'll help. Note also that we have free images of Kjeld Stub Irgens, so we can drop the deprecated license image of the Sun Cross. Manxruler (talk) 16:24, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Update successful so far. Will rest a bit before continuing. Manxruler (talk) 01:26, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  DYK update 2 

message: #Add redlink slots to Portal:Norway/DYK. (I just did that here, up to 50 to start out)
#Create those new DYK subpages, using copy/paste from Portal:Norway/DYK/Layout.
#Fill them in with hooks that aren't yet at Portal:Norway/DYK, make sure to include either a diff from when they appeared at T:DYK, or the link to the number of the WP:Recent additions archive. (The layout page will give you the formatting for the links to the archives, just replace "NUMBER" with the number of each archive associated with each hook.)
#Make sure to have a free-use image (should be one that appeared with each hook) as the hook number-one out of each set of 3 slots.
Let me know if this is confusing or if anything can be explained further. Cirt (talk) 04:00, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Update successful so far. Will rest a bit before continuing. Manxruler (talk) 01:26, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Update steps

message: This article has a maintenance banner, so it should not be featured. __meco (talk) 08:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So... It's not not a Norwegian-themed DYK? Manxruler (talk) 09:01, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm alluding to the portal guidelines that state that an article selected to be featured on a portal page should have no clean-up tags. If you look further up on this discussion page, you will see that the discussion about including 2008 in Norway partially hinged on this issue. __meco (talk) 09:10, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I suppose that the grammar issues should be fixed, then. Manxruler (talk) 09:23, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not the point, obviously. The article should not be featured until they have been dealt with. __meco (talk) 09:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

text: That I don't understand, so please try and explain. Surely, the quality of an article may deteriorate significantly, or appropriate cleanup tags may be added that weren't there compared to the day it was featured in Wikipedia's main page DYK section? It makes no sense to have standards of quality that apply to the state of the article at some point of time in the past? The only way I can attempt to make sense of this is if what is laid down at portal guidelines does not apply to the DYK section, but then the question of why doesn't it emerges. __meco (talk) 16:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Simple. We are not featuring the article, we are featuring the DYK hook, which itself went through a review process at the time, in order to successfully make it to T:DYK. Cirt (talk) 16:30, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? This sounds hard to believe for me. Is there anything written to attest to this interpretation? The article title is even embolded, so I would assume, and I assume most would assume, that it has been checked and approved for quality. __meco (talk) 16:47, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be an incredible amount of extra work to keep looking over older hooks and replacing them if the article quality deteriorates, even if the hook itself was reviewed as factually accurate. The point is also that these will be linked to and hopefully improved upon further. Cirt (talk) 16:51, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I can understand this argument, however, your last sentence, it would equally serve the argument to exclude any article on the portal page from quality control. __meco (talk) 16:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If the entire text of that article is being featured in its own subsection or summary of it, yes. Cirt (talk) 17:02, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, but I'm not able to integrate your response. Is it only text which actually appears on the portal page which this quality control applies to? __meco (talk) 17:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Cirt (talk) 17:23, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Yes, I know it may seem that way, so I hope you can suspend any would-be disbelief because I don't find what you are explaining to be congruent with the portal guidelines, and that may have wider consequences than what may appear to be a mere nitpicking exercise. At the very least it would suggest that there are ambiguities in the guidelines that should be remedied. If you feel exacerbated or tired of my queries, I don't mind going to the guidelines talk page and ask my question there though. __meco (talk) 17:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are complaining about a tag which someone placed on an article suggesting it be improved for grammar issues. The discussion above about 2008 in Norway which is now in the portal, by the way, was about factual accuracy or lack thereof. Big difference. Cirt (talk) 17:42, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a big difference between the gravity of the cleanup issues between the two articles, sure. However, the guidelines make no distinction in the section "Article selection". They plainly state that articles selected to be featured on the portal page should have no cleanup issues, large or small. Perhaps this is poorly worded in the guidelines and should be modified there? As stated, I'll be happy to bring my bemusement there. __meco (talk) 17:55, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That part of the guideline is referring to the "Selected article" or "Selected biography" subsection of portals, not DYKs. Cirt (talk) 17:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Very well. At least that makes sense. I have made this explicitly clear in the guidelines also. __meco (talk) 09:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. Cirt (talk) 02:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Laila Goody]] featured in Did You Know? 

message: removed Add  to the See also section of Norway-related articles. from the portal subpage Portal:Norway/Things you can do. Actually, placing links to portals in the See also subsection of articles is a common practice, per WP:ALSO. If articles do not have a See also section, links to the relevant portals are placed in the External links subsection of the articles. Cirt (talk) 10:08, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Articles should not have See also sections, as all links in see also section should be incorporated into the article text (likewise, the existence of external links sections is suboptimal, as all valuable external material should be incorporated as citations/references). The "portal link wanted" notice at /to do, as it stands, solicits the adding of see also sections for the sole purpose of having portal links. This would look hideous, which is why I removed it. Punkmorten (talk) 10:15, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, much as I respect your opinion, consensus in the community is that the See also and External links sections in articles have value. And I agree with that and think that this piece of info is most appropriate for the Things you can do subsection of the portal. Cirt (talk) 10:21, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:See also actually states that it is better to add links to the article body than to see also, and that "see also"-sections are mainly meant to be used in shorter, imperfect articles. Quote: "A 'perfect' article then may not have a 'See also' section at all, though some links may not naturally fit into the body of text and others may not be included due to size constraints." Therefore, "see also"-section are neither encouraged or discourages, but must be used with care; in general such care is not taken by most editors, who add a host of see also-links. I share Punkmorten's concern that adding a "see also" or "external links"-section for the sole purpose of adding a portal icon is suboptimal. A rephrasing to specify this, such as "add [portal tag] to existing see also sections ..." might be a better solution. Arsenikk (talk) 10:47, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a good suggestion by . I made a change. Cirt (talk) 10:51, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Actually, Portal:Norway/Things you can do is set up so it really does not have to be updated much at all. Cirt (talk) 05:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and because of that it is kind of boring. Also, the link to requested articles send you nowhere. Rettetast (talk) 10:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a note, with a link pointing to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Norway/to do, see . Cirt (talk) 21:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Portal:Norway/Things you can do]] 

message: Not much have been done to this portal since it became featured in April 2008, and it looks like nothing has been done since 2010, so I thought it was about time we use some time to update this to still be a "featured portal". 
*To start with the Into, I believe the last two sentences needs a brief update. 
*We have 25 Selected articles, which I believe was atleast B-class in 2008 but some of them have been degraded and should be replaced. We have one FA, eight GA's (of which 5 is train-related, so we should probably change some of them aswell to get more variety), 5 B-class (of which one is not related directly to Norway) and 11 lower then B-class that should be replaced. Here is the full list:
**FA - Battle of Svolder (2)
**GA - Chrome Division (1), Operation Clambake (7), Atlantic Ocean Road (11), Flytoget (21), Oslo Metro (22), Bergen Line (23), Gardermoen Line (24), Rjukan Line (25), 
**B - Jarmann M1884 (3, former FA), Krag-Petersson (6, former FA), Harbor seal (13, but not related to Norway?), Kalmar Union (18), Kven people (20), 
**C - Kammerlader (4, former FA), Krag-Jørgensen (5, former FA), Bear Island (Norway) (8, former GA), Nobel Peace Prize (9), Oslo (10), Islam in Norway (17), Kautokeino (19), 
**Start - Battle of Kringen (12), Flag of Norway (14), Hammerfest (15), Harstad (16),
I think we should include the FA's related to Norway in this portal, that means atleast 1952 Winter Olympics, Amundsen's South Pole expedition, Black Friday (1945), Nansen's Fram expedition and Opera (web browser). Any suggestion on which articles we should replace the old low-quality articles with? Mentoz86 (talk) 16:50, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay these are all great ideas, I think the best bet would be to swap out the lower quality selections with higher quality ones, as you suggest, above. As for the Intro, we should defer to whatever is the stable intro text from the WP:LEAD of the article: Norway. — Cirt (talk) 16:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Intro is now fixed, updated with info from WP:LEAD of main article, Norway. Cheers, — Cirt (talk) 17:03, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow - that was a fast reply. Don't you think the intro became a little long now? I know you just copied the lead for the other article, but I believe the layout was better before. When it comes to Selected Articles and Selected Biographies, should we try to have some variety in the topics? Mentoz86 (talk) 17:07, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the intro should be whatever the intro is at the main core article of the topic, and per WP:LEAD, if you think the intro is too long at the article Norway, you should discuss that with editors at Talk:Norway. As far as the Selected articles, I will be shortly implementing your helpful recommendations, above, to swap out lesser quality articles for higher quality articles. Thank you for your suggestions, — Cirt (talk) 17:09, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

text: Nice (and fast) job. There are 238 GA's, so there is enough to choose from. After reading through the list, I'm thinking Röyksopp, Oslo Airport, Fornebu, Ullevaal Stadion, 2010 Nobel Peace Prize and maybe Take on Me to cover as broad as possible. Mentoz86 (talk) 17:28, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: All Start-class and C-class rated articles noted, above, have been replaced with either FA-class or GA-class articles. Any suggestions on which GAs to use to replace the B-class articles, above? — Cirt (talk) 19:51, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know how many there are left to switch out, but there are a lot to choose from. I think we should go for something completely different then the ones we already have there, e.g. HNoMS Mjølner (1868) (Naval ship), Longyearbyen or Polar Bear (both Svalbard-related), Nordhordland Bridge (bridge outside Bergen) and Norid or .no (about domain name). Mentoz86 (talk) 02:57, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updated needed