Talk:Outsider music

message: I've never before heard Syd Barrett described as "Psychedelic folk", that's absolute rubbish. Most people agree that he is a pioneer of Psychedelic Rock. I never saw him on stage morris dancing or featuring an accordian in any of his sets. Can anyone justify this with some citations DarkShroom
:He did pioneer psychedelic rock. Have you ever heard his solo music? Barrett or The Madcap Laughs? Although psychedelic folk isn't incredibly intuitive, I think it fits that description more than any other. What would you call Tim Buckley, particularly Starsailor? Mczuba
"Avant Folk" is a term. But Psycheddlic Folk is unarguably a genre of music. You can get into the debate over whether or not it's appropriate to call a lot of this music 'folk', but that's how it's colloquially known for better or worse.
Darkshroom, listen to Syd Barret's first two solo albums. Definitely fits the definitions of both psychedelic music and what we call contemporary folk. They're very good, too! Loveoflife666 (talk) 10:39, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Psychedelic folk

message: Continuing from the discussion above, I was told -  can't remember when or whom by - that the Outsider Art movement was itself a direct reaction to the autocracy of the Art Establishment; an establishment which recognised only originality within defined "schools", and whose training and mindset are anathema to true outsider art. In other words a trained artish cannot be a true artist because the training itself would have locked out a vital part of their creative faculty. In this sense, the pop movement was itself an outsider art movement. But as each genre becomes established, and books are written about "established" outsider artists, then a new door is opened for new artists to emerge. Perhaps there should be a new category of outsider music, to distinguish between outside-in and outside-out. A professional musician, who turned outsider, could then be termed "inside-out". Matt Stan 14:00, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outsider 'movement' 

message: The image :Image:The Shaggs.JPG is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:The Shaggs.JPG

message: this article seriously needs some citations, its a piece of shit atm 68.94.198.236 (talk) 09:03, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: citations

message: is definatly worth mentioning.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.78.114.69 (talk) 08:36, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wild man fischer 

message: Tay Zonday, seems like a perfectly good example, and there are nyt articles to cite...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.170.113 (talk) 18:45, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  How bout 

message: This article constantly refers to Outsider Music as "unskilled" or somehow inferior. Let's please rewrite sentences like that and keep in mind that articles on other genres generally don't mention if there happens to be some "bad" performers in that genre, style, or in this case, cultural movement. For example, the Hip Hop Music article doesn't say "Hip Hop ranges from terrible music like Eli Porter to good music like Eminem." --Iron Chef (talk) 19:56, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not comparable to hip hop. The lack of skill is one of the defining characteristics of outsider music. It's difficult to talk about it in another way, as the lack of qualities of what is traditionally considered to make "good music" is almost the whole point. Zazaban (talk) 03:09, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  But although there may be a technical lack of skill that, adjectives like "terrible" aren't proper to describe it - somebody may find the lack of skill to add to the charm of the music, or, as in many cases of Outsider Music, the percieved lack of skill is intentional. --Iron Chef (talk) 19:56, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with that; I didn't mention the word terrible, I agree that that should go. But The OP argued against the use of the word "unskilled", which is one of the main defining characteristics of the genre. Zazaban (talk) 21:24, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth (talk) 04:31, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional citations

message: Wouldn't Charles Ives fit here?--Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 17:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Charles Ives

message: Inappropriate to include Yung Lean in this list. The citation is used out-of-context, the author more likely meant that his music has the feeling of being made by outsiders, not that it is outsider music.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.87.211 (talk • contribs) 06:09, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The source says what it says. The Master ---)Vote Saxon(--- 00:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Yung Lean

message: The list of musicians needs to have citations added or be cleaned up. The Master ---)Vote Saxon(--- 03:44, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations and/or cleanup needed 

message: Suppose something comes out in older style.  "Morse Code of Love" is an example; it is a throwback to early 1960s.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.102.56.146 (talk) 20:44, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  what about old style 

message: I don't think The Shaggs (and Farrah Abraham sometimes) being considered both outsider music and 'bad music' is enough to justify the inclusion of that page in the see also. a reader skimming through the article might get the false impression that outsider music is considered bad, which is especially untrue considering the critical acclaim towards artists like Daniel Johnston and Jandek.
Just a thought, discuss Loveoflife666 (talk) 10:33, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "List of Music Considered the Worst" in 'See Also' 

message: The reference which justifies the use of the phrase "[outsider musicians] sometimes suffer from disabilities or mental illnesses" strikes me as dubious (I changed "usually" to "sometimes", and removed "intellectual" since the reference provides no basis at all for the claim of "usually"; or specifically "intellectual" disabilities). It's a thesis written for a DPhil in musicology: "Lo-Fi Aesthetics in Popular Music Discourse" and as such is rather more of an artistic argument than a source of statistical information on a population.
Note carefully: that thesis is not about outsider musicians, and it's about the discourse rather than the actuality of Lo-Fi aesthetics in pop music.
While "intellectual disability" has a couple of mentions in the musicological thesis referred to, "disability" without qualification is more common.
Regardless of that, the reference cites no data source to justify any claims about whether or not mental illness or disability of any sort is more or less common than average in the set of "outsider musicians".  I therefore propose that the article's opening mention of mental illness and disability is best removed.
:Good points, but the fact is that many so-called "outsider artists" are noted for their mental illness. I don't know if this should be noted in the second sentence, but it needs to be noted somewhere in the lead, as it is on the lead for Outsider art. Harper's thesis is about "the actuality of Lo-Fi aesthetics"—as well as "outsider" and "DIY"—it's just written from the angle that these are all subjective labels (they are), and so the analysis tries to find consistencies in the term's application through the discourse of music journalists.--Ilovetopaint (talk)
:I double-checked the source and verified that the string "intellectual disability(ies)" is invoked 17 times, not the "couple" you suggested. Harper states in no unclear terms:
::
:And on other pages:
::
:The reason why the text "usually" appears is because there have been examples of so-called "outsider musicians" who do exist inside the "artistic establishment".--Ilovetopaint (talk) 13:32, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mental illness and disability 

message: Why was the list of notable examples of outsider musicians removed? EnPassant♟♙ (talk) 23:04, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of notable examples