Talk:American Saddlebred

message: Please DO NOT CREATE GALLARIES in wikipedia articles, they are discouraged (and also grow exponentially).  However, for the purpose of easy access to images that may be used to improve various articles I am placing the ones here that were put into the article that aren't already being used there. Montanabw(talk) 19:15, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gallery

message: the american saddle horse is also recognized by his speed,moves,high stepping steps,jumps,hunter and also alert
According to wikipedia Ulysses S. Grant´s Horse Cincinatee he was a 17 hand Thourobred.
Ryttar, 8 Dec. 2008
:Do not confuse Saddlebreds with Thoroughbreds.  If you want to add content to "uses" please provide a verifiable source.  Montanabw(talk) 21:39, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Uses

message: I temporary hid the harness horse image because over on commons, the uploader, Princess Mérida, has been banned and blocked as a sockpuppet, and that editor uploaded TONS of watermarked horse images from Flickr that are all indicated as by "Author:Heather Moreton."  This particular one has had the watermark removed, but I think unless we get an OTRS OK from Heather Moreton, my concern is that the images will be challenged later.  (They're great images, but all watermarked -- or once watermarked -- to this one photographer).  I like the idea of having a harness horse image, though.  Just happen to be aware that there could be a problem (same banned editor uploaded a ton of photos identified as "Morabs" and "ponies" even though clearly labeled as other breeds... sigh)  Montanabw(talk) 18:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: So far, the Heather Moreton photos that I've checked have been properly licensed for transfer to Commons. Which means we can use them, regardless of who actually did the transfer. However, just to be safe, I have dropped a note to the user (admin?) who appears to be doing a good chunk of the cleanup work for this puppet on Commons. We'll see what he has to say. I have noticed some of their mis-tagged photos, and already moved a couple of them. However, Ms. Moreton appears to have tagged the images correctly on Flickr, it is just a matter of the user transferring them to Commons and putting them under the wrong categories. So, in many cases, the mistake is easily corrected by checking the Flickr pages for the original images. Dana boomer (talk) 21:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The sockmaster  of the account that uploaded was RafikiSykes, which rings a bell as a problem user.  Also the mislabeling drove me nuts. If all is well, I have no problem using the image, though I wish we had a full-body shot.  Oh well.  Montanabw(talk) 22:23, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

text: The user I asked on Commons said the Moreton images are fine, and that it's just the Princess Merida account that's blocked, the main account isn't. And that image is fine - I think the one I had in there is a bit prettier, but this one does show the whole horse better. I'll add it in. Dana boomer (talk) 23:23, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

text: Would probably be OK for GAN - the author seems to have also written/reported on movies for a few magazines and TV shows. It is self-published, though, which makes it iffy. So, probably OK, but it would be better to find something else, especially if we head to FAC (which we definitely could at some point with this article). Dana boomer (talk) 21:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

text: I'm happy.  Give it a shot!  Montanabw(talk) 23:32, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA run 

message: Added a three-gaited horse and swapped a muddy photo for a better one of a five-gaited horse.  What think you of this new image to swap yet again for the harness horse?  Kind of artsy with the blur, prettier horse, but the cart not shown.  Your call!  ;)  .  Your call.  Montanabw(talk) 21:23, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm. This one is artsier. However, since what we're trying to illustrate is the fact that they're used for driving, I think an image that shows the cart is better... Dana boomer (talk) 21:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, just tossed it into the pile.  No worries!  Montanabw(talk) 22:55, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  More pics 

message: The article asserts that several horses of "the Golden Age of Hollywood" were played by American Saddlebred horses, among them the star horses in the films My Friend Flicka and National Velvet.  I do not think this holds up to inspection.
The claim cites one article in The Equine Chronicle Online, but the statement in that article is itself not supported by a quotation or reference to other evidence.  This would not normally be significant (the website seems credible), except for the fact that the National Velvet claim is clearly refuted by several highly authoritative sources that are specifically dedicated to the discussing identity of the film horse.
National Velvet is identified as a thoroughbred named "King Charles" and a grandson of Man O' War by The Times of London, The Classic Film Union, IMDb, Turner Classic Movies, and a whole host of fan sites.
The question of Flicka is more difficult to trace.  Turner Classic Media, which owns the rights to the 1943 (ie "the Golden Age of Hollywood" era) My Friend Flicka, and the American Film Institute list the horse that played her as "Country Delight, a horse". Different sites make contradictory claims about that horse's breeding: one asserts that the human star, Roddy McDowell, described the horse as being an Arabian. Others do say that it was a Saddlebred. None of them (as far as I can see) provide citations to original interviews or sources.
The article also makes an unsourced claim that Mr Ed was an American Saddlebred.  However, IMDb states that Mr Ed was a Saddlebred-Arabian cross named Bamboo Harvester, the Wikipedia article on Mr. Ed describes the horse as being of "American Saddlebred, Arabian and grade ancestry", which is supported by the Allbreed Database.
This being the case, think it is only right to delete the reference to National Velvet, add a reference-needed tag to Flicka, and clarify that Mr Ed was a cross-bred Saddlebred.
WarlanderHorse (talk) 17:20, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll fix Mr. Ed, as you are correct he was half-Saddlebred. However, we have sourced ALL of these claims (some cites cover two or more animals, and I believe the Saddlebred registry's records verify the identity of several horses, (though I don't feel like ponying up the $10 to check their database) the source cited references an exhibit at the Kentucky Horse Park's International Museum of the Horse, which tends to be reliable about sourcing its claims.  Fan sites, blogs and IMDb are all considered unreliable sources, but I can look over the others.  In some cases, multiple horses were used in certain films, and some more of these animals may have been crossbreds, though Allbreed is also a dubious source because anyone can edit it, the note on King Charles indicates that he was not a registered Thoroughbred, I would have to verify, but I believe that TB bloodlines were still permitted in the Saddlebred studbook for quite a while, so not impossible that a registered Saddlebred could also be a grandson of a TB.  Some people are also shocked to realize that the old Saddlebreds could jump.  Montanabw(talk) 20:21, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: (ec with Montana) Warlander, I'm agreeing with Montana here. You're inserting unreliable sources, such as Find-a-Grave and IMDB, while discounting sources such as The Chronicle of the Horse. Some movie fan's Tripod page, and user-sourced sites such as AllBreedPedigree are also considered unreliable. Some of your reliable sources don't hold up as well. Take, for example, the list of sources for King Charles (the horse in National Velvet). I can't see the first one, but I'm going to AGF. The second is a fan blog. The third is IMDB, not a RS. The fourth doesn't say he was a Thoroughbred, it says he was the grandson of Man o' War. There was quite a bit of TB blood crossed into Saddlebreds before the stud book closed (do we have an exact date on this? Likely around WWII), so it's quite possible he was a MoW grandson and a Saddlebred. The fifth is a fan site. So, we have three unreliable sources, one that doesn't support the information and one that I can't see. Dana boomer (talk) 20:51, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: And I found another source, claiming he was a "thoroughbred" but also stating that the Man o' War thing was a myth.  Also keep in mind that amongst the general public, they use "Thoroughbred" to mean purebred.  I cannot find squat on the actual pedigree of King Charles, though I suppose the AHSA would be able to verify this if one of us wanted to pony up the $10.  But then, as it's a paywall site, would we then have RS sourcing issues?  Montanabw(talk) 01:01, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film and Celebrity Affiliation 

message: Dana:  Would you consider this a reliable source:  http://www.horseshowcentral.com/flex/saddlebred_stallions/157/1    Montanabw(talk) 01:04, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No. No editorial policy that I can see, and some of the info is user submitted (although what is and isn't is not marked, as far as I can tell). The source (TV Acres) for Mr. Ed isn't top-quality either - it's one man's pet project, SPS with no claim of expertise. I would suggest either this HorseChannel article or this The Guardian article (the latter says he was Saddlebred/Arabian/grade, which would match with the pedigree at Bamboo Harvester). Dana boomer (talk) 01:26, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That works.  Montanabw(talk) 17:18, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool, thanks. I know I'm being picky, but this is definitely an article we could take to FAC, and it's easier to find good sources now then in the middle of a FAC review! Dana boomer (talk) 18:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  RS question 

message: Do we need any of these?
File:Images from the 2009 Shelbyville Horse show (3802833280).jpg|Fairly good action shot, going level, although the watermark could be removed
File:2009 Worlds Championship Horse Show (3877971589).jpg|Racking, cleaner background than most of the action pics have although the feet are a little blurry
File:2009 Shelbyville Horse Show (3868246732).jpg|Fine Harness horse, different color than all the sorrels and bays. Also the cart is mostly visible 
I think there's also a couple pictures on Commons of the conformation part of a stake class, with the saddles stripped from the horses. There are quite a few, probably 50, ASB pics on there that are not within the breed category, although I tried to fix that with a few of them.
White Arabian Filly Neigh 20:31, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The categories are often messed up; I enable the "cat-a-lot" feature on Commons and when I run into a batch like that, I fix them -- the problem is that you can do mass imports from Flickr if the licensing is right, but the proper categories often don't port with the import.  As for the pics, I think the middle one is good, the others, meh... Montanabw(talk) 05:54, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Found pics 

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