Talk:The Valeyard

message: A sweep needs to be done of this article. As much as the information is useful, as it is, it's mostly a synopsis of Trial of a Time Lord when it really needs to be reduced to information relevant to the Valeyard. Some of the information can be moved/merged with the other Trial articles and excised from this so as to leave only items that pertain directly to the subject at hand. Also, as this is a character article and not a story synopsis, it should be in the past tense. I'll do just that later in my day when I get the chance. --khaosworks 14:18, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok I have changed it to the past tense. I did try to stick to details which directly concern the character of the Valeyard, but some details of the story I found necessary to include so that the whole thing makes sense. There are certainly many aspects of the four serials which I did not include (for example Queen Katya). Tim! (talk) 16:51, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not saying it's all irrelevant, just that I think some of it can be condensed and we can leave it up to the individual serials for more information. I'm not knocking the work you've done - it's all good - just that for a character study it needs to be tighter. --khaosworks 20:31, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: It's a good point, but I guess ultimately it's also a measure of notability as well as whether they are recognisable as the Doctor - the Watcher being this mysterious figure that only Nyssa said was the Doctor (how does she know?) and the Valeyard only revealed in the end as an evil "potential" incarnation. The others are incontrovertibly (in thet context) the Doctor. That and the fact that the Watcher doesn't really deserve his own article and that by identifying the Valeyard in the breakout box we're spoilering The Ultimate Foe... --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We are a encyclopedia.  We don't worry about 'spoilers'.;)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnSmith5000100 (talk • contribs) 22:24, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Well, even if there is, it doesn't belong on WP anyway. (And isn't it Harold Saxon?) Peeper 18:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sweep needed

message: Actually, it's pronounced with 3 syllables, as in Valley-ard. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 13:48, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: it depends on which character is saying it too - Baker pronounces it Valyard.Mmm commentaries (talk) 12:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronounciation

message: I think that the statement in the main article that the Valeyard manipulated the evidence to make it appear the Doctor had committed genocide is incorrect. While the Valeyard certainly mainpulated the evidence to make it appear the Doctor was sending Mel into danger or performing sabotage, the total destruction of the Vervoids most certainly was the Doctor's intent. He had already observed that coexistence with the Vervoids was impossible and that hence there was a 'kill or be killed' situation. He did deliberately destroy every Vervoid, as he admitted himself, in order to prevent them reaching Earth. The Doctor, during the trial, pointed out several instances where he saw alterations in the evidence, but made no such comment regarding the destruction of the Vervoids, clearly regretting that it was necessary. The Valeyard simply seized on that to change the charge to genocide. 82.26.65.159 23:33, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought this was a strange charge as in "Genesis of the Daleks" the Doctor is given the task of averting the creation of the Daleks which when you get right down to is would be genocide.  This is ignoring his killing of Set the last of the Osirians in "Pyramids of Mars" or the death of Eldrad in "Hand of Fear" (also the last of his race)--BruceGrubb (talk) 01:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Genocide of the Vervoids

message: The article needs to state in the introduction that he's an incarnation of the Doctor. At the moment it reads as the plot of Trial of a Time Lord, and you have to wade through the plot to find out this info. I'll have ago at changing it. Totnesmartin (talk) 23:52, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Presentation of information 

message: As the Dreamlord from the series 5 episode Amy's Choice is essentially a adversary formed from the Doctor's own subconscious, I think he is essentially similar enough to enjoy inclusion on the page - at the very least to make sure the two are not confused. AlexanderJBateman (talk) 01:33, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your speculation.  Now if you can provide a reliable source saying the same thing, then it'll be perfect. DonQuixote (talk) 20:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: To clarify, I do not believe it is the Valeyard, (or at the very least can be proven to be so at the time) - What I do believe is that as a very similar being, it should be addressed under the premise of improving wikipedia and preventing confusion between the two. Obviously if later information comes to light linking the two, that then would take precedence. But up until that point, a neutrally worded statement noting the similarities qualified with the fact that the Valeyard name was not used would seem to stop the matter dead with recourse to continual editing.AlexanderJBateman (talk) 04:19, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dreamlord 

message: I have closed this discussion as the consensus seemed to be to keep the article separate AlexanderJBateman (talk) 16:37, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge to The Trial of a Time Lord 

message: Well we saw the between-twefth-and-final nearly eight years ago (though we only found out that was it on Xmas day 2013)  Tennant's Doctor had been developing symptoms of megalomania (The Waters Of Mars) and had just come off a run-in with his own people gone corrupt, so maybe the Valeyard comes from during this regeneration - especially if his paymasters are "Last Of ..." Time Lords interfereing in their own society's past. 86.133.86.30 (talk) 18:21, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Please cite a reliable source that says any of the above. DonQuixote (talk) 19:19, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Somewhere between twelfth and final incarnation" - during Tennant/Smith regeneration? 

message: It should be made clearer in the article that in 1986, "final" meant "Thirteenth" and that it is only because of retroactive knowlege that the line has taken on a deeper meaning and significance than intended in 1986. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 14:16, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: One simple way would be to hyperlink "twelfth" and "final" to the article on the Tenth Doctor and Eleventh Doctor respectively.Romomusicfan (talk) 15:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "twelfth and final..."