Talk:Anti-Romanian sentiment

message: I'd like that you point out the problems you think the article has now. If you don't, I'll remove the tags. bogdan | Talk 19:21, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Ghirlandajo: POV tags 

message: I think the topic is worthy of an article and this article may actually evolve with time into something encyclopedic. But two things for now:
#article name: we cannot use neologizms, sorry. Encyclopedia reports on things that already happened and studied, not introduces the terminology even if the terminology is justified. See No original research. I suggest we move article to Discrimination of Romanians or smth along these lines.
#Because this is a controversial topic with accusations liberally spread towards all the neighbors of Romanians (and justifiably or not is a separate issue), every fact has to be sourced. I request that authors of the article take this request seriously. One cannot of course site a source of every sentence, but ona has to do it on every major idea the article introduces, unless, of course, something is a common knowledge. Please take this call seriously and cite your sources.
Thanks, --Irpen 21:17, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I see my consern #1 is already addressed. Thanks! Please address the problem with sources asap. --Irpen 21:51, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Is it a term used in English? --Node 01:14, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, there are very few instances, see google test (make sure you check "English only" in options). --Irpen 03:01, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Just make all the redirects you want. I am not sure Anti-Polonism is right as an article name either. The google test provides a useful guidance. It shows the usage and internet is even less regulated than English language. Anti-Romanianism term is unheard of (or almost) among the English language sites. hits intenretwide seems convinsing. --Irpen 04:35, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Irpen. --Ghirlandajo 07:39, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

text: If it is so rarely seen, it means we can't use it as an article entry, but a redirect is OK. That's all I was saying. I can, say, make a web-page outside WP devoted to this topic and choose to call it ANTI-ROMANIAISM. Also a morphologically possible name. This would not qualify it for an article entry and ANTI-ROMANIANISM, is just about as used. It may well be used in Romanian media, I just don't know. It is not used in English in any significant way. --Irpen 16:32, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Article name

message: This article contains lots of misbeliefs, scientifically unproven statements. There are also proven facts in it.  
I think, this set of information is valuable because the writers have collected, and are collecting the popular myths fuelling Romanian xenophobia. The article was interesting for me to read, because these stories are not commonly known by Hungarians. This also helps to understand the way of thinking of another Nation. 
I would like to stress: I am not saying that everithing in the article is false! I also don't think that there are no similar myths amongst Hungarians or others.
I suggest that most of the collected stuff is reorganised and included in a new article called eg. Popular myths amongst Romanians  or Beliefs fuelling Romanian xenophobia.
To help in this work, I have uploaded two photos on the frescos in the Orthodox Romanian Cathedral in Targu Mures (built in the 1920s), depicting people dressed as medieval noble Hungarians torchuring poor people dressed Romanian peasants...--KIDB 11:39, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  The title has to stay. Maybe some of the content related to Hungary has to be toned down a little or backed by sources.Constantzeanu 20:03, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It all needs to be backed up by sources. - FrancisTyers 15:59, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article should not be deleted, it needs another title 

message: Romanian ethnic soldiers from Moldova were sent in Afghanistan by the Soviet Union 1980-1989. --203.188.144.61 08:40, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that was an example of discrimination, since soldiers all over the Soviet Union were sent there. bogdan 09:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Romanian ethnic soldiers from Moldova were sent in Afghanistan by the Soviet Union 1980-1989 

message: Protected from anon edits against revert war by a flock of anon accounts. mikka (t) 23:43, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Your POV fork again.  Bonaparte  talk 10:15, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...you mean, his protecting it from anon vandalism. ...unless the anon was a sockpuppet of you.
Nobody seems to substanciate their claims so I have erased the tags. Unless people come with clear objections then I see no point for them. There was an original research tag but the article has sources, there was a factual account tag but nobody bothered to explain what was not factual and there was a totally neutrality tag but I think everyone would agree that some parts of any article are more neutral then others.Constantzeanu 01:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: The following info is not supported by any citation:
::The Ukrainian government has followed a policy of Ukrainization from 1992 until today, which among others requires students belonging to ethnic minorities to learn Ukrainian primarily, rather then their own languages
As far as I know (and confirmation can be easily found) there are Romanian-language scools in the regions with substational fraction of Romanian population, where Romanian is learned as primary language. --AndriyK 14:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "learn Ukrainian primarily" 

message: Since nobody provided any referencies concerning the Anti-Romanian discrimination in Ukraine, I changed the text according to the available sources. Still, I lived the tag  so far, to bring the attention of Romanian editoprs to the issue. If you disagree and can support you agreement by relyable sources, you I wellcome to discuss. I hope we can work together to find a muturally acceptable formulation.--AndriyK 10:27, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ukraine 

message: Someone removed this, so I've added it back. The whole article needs reading over by a non-Romanian. Stuff like:
:Dispite the 1997 treaty with Romania, which among others requires the two countries to respect each others minorities, Ukraine has continued to close down Romanian schools, while reports show that Romanian recruits in the Ukrainain army are systematically persecuted and humiliated.
Isn't even vaguely neutral. Let alone sourced. I shall add the verify tag too. - FrancisTyers 19:52, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality tag

message: Recent revert by Constantzeanu seems like a totally bad faith edit wich restored a version which was even formatted poorly. Additionally, that version had received some copyediting, comments, formatting, etc. by me only to see it undone by a quick-fix. If Constantzeanu has a thing or two to say about this article, he should not use the fast-hand fixes like quick reverts to the older POV poorly formatted versions. It now took me amother good chunk of time to go over this mess. If people insist on my correction and comments being wrong, they should work through them, rather than quick revert. Please respect other people's work. -Irpen 23:20, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverting other people's work

message: I want the person who tried to remove that section to explain his actions. Why is that section nonsense? Everything included there is supported by sources. It is not nonsense. --Candide, or Optimism 09:33, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: First, it was not Russian, it was Soviet. Second, it was not killing of Romanians because they were romanians. It was Soviet-wide politics to eliminate "enemies of worker's class". There was no specific anti-Romanian discrimination (this is the title of the article). Russian kulaks faced the same fate in much greater numbers. Third, the numbers quoted are fantasy IMO, taken from some obscure website, in which three years 1950-1952 account for 1,000,000 (!) Romanians dead by Stalin. I'd really like to see a wikipedia article about such a notable fact before this number starts walking all over wikipedia. mikka (t) 01:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your hatred and ignorance toward romanians exeeds the border of common sense. As a matter of fact you were not blocked for Anti-Romanian discrimination by  Ronline ✉ for nothing I suppose. You're just an *personal attack removed* anyway. You lie again mikka, there was a systematic anti-romanian discrimination from the Russians. They changed the population aiming to change the ethnic composition of the population. Romanians were sent to Siberia for the simple fact that they were Romanians.--82.100.207.155 21:38, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Russian democide 

message: No, it's not world common practice. Not when you have such a huge minority. Romania, for instance, gives Hungarians opportunity to study at universal level in their own language. --Candide, or Optimism 01:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hungarian-language university education is offered in state-run universities in Romania, such as the Babeş-Bolyai (UBB) in Cluj. There universities offer courses both in Romanian and in Hungarian as a medium of instruction (there is a large Hungarian department at UBB). Additionally, there are a number of private Hungarian-only universities in the Szekely Land. There is currently discussion over whether the state should finance these universities or not (currently it doesn't).  Ronline ✉ 05:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the info. It would be nice if you could add that to the article, if you haven't already. --Candide, or Optimism 08:29, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Please when writing for this section do not confuse the consequences of the Ukraine-wide policies of Ukrainization with the narrow term of the anti-Romanian discrimination. The country's entire educational system became significantly Ukrainized in the last 15 years and education was switched to Ukrainian at all levels reducing not only Romanian but the Russian education as well (and to a much more significant degree). This has to do with the state policies towards other languages in general. Lack of sensitivy in such policies is of course not a good thing but this is not some kind of an ethnic discrimination directed against the specific minority that the articles tries to portray. The discussion on the Ukrainian policies towards its ethnic and language minoritues belongs to other articles, such as Ethnic minorities in Ukraine. Please do not present such stuff under a much more deplorable name such as anti-Romanian discrimination. Ukraine has no anti-Romanian discrimination policies whatsoever. --Irpen
I think that the Ukraine chapter of this article largely confuses two things by presenting the uniform minority policies of the Ukrainian state not directed against any nation in particular but rather towards ensuring the implementation of the Ukrainian national concept, as it is seen by the country's government, as an anti-Romanian discrimination. If you can find some valid and sourced objections to such policies of Ukraine, this is a legitimate topic to cover but to present it as anti-Romanian discrimination is plain incorrect. As an example, please consider the Romanian interwar policies. We rightfully describe them in the Rumanization article and even if anti-Ukrainian discrimination ever gets started, I would not move the information on Rumanization, the assimilationist policy of Romania directed towards minorities in general, as anti-Ukrainian discrimination. Such policies affected not just Ukrainians but also, Hungarians, Rusyns and I don't know who else.
Please understand that the policies of Ukraine that you try to describe in the article, similarly belong elsewhere. Therefore, my suggestion is for now to start from the History of the Romanians in Ukraine as well as Romanians of Chernivtsi Oblast (should they be merged btw?). After gaining some consensus on how to present these issues in "Romanians in Ukraine" article(s), we can try to figure out what of this (if anything) belongs to the discrimination article and in what form. How would this sound? --Irpen 21:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the Ukraine section 

message: This would be very grave if it could be proven to be true: " In the orphanage of Tighina, Romanian children were beaten by Transnistrian and Russian troops and forced to sleep in the streets for a few months  "
As it stands now, it is unreferenced. Questions: When was this (date)? How many children? For how many months did they lie in the street? Any reliable sources? Photos? The OSCE is quoted as having been involved. As an international organization they write a report of all involvement. Where is the papertrail of this? As it stands now, the sentence smells of urban myth. Similar to Saddam's troops throwing newborns out of their incubators when invading Kuwait in 1990.
Besides, beating orphans would certainly be outside the rules of engagements for the Russian contingent to the Transnistrian Joint Control Commission. (ConsultantJoe 21:06, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What can you ask from a people who kill their own women? --Candide, or Optimism 22:25, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

text: There was an incident, but the description is probably not all correct. A Unicef report, OSCE report, A news report in Romanian bogdan 22:02, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Orphans thrown into the street? Beaten by troops?

message: Would all users who disagree with various aspects of the article please list specific grievances here so that they can be addressed. TSO1D 16:22, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outstanding Disputes 

message: I reverted the Macedonia section simply because the minority in question are Aromanians not Romanians. This article refers only to discrimination against ethnic Romanians, not including other Eastern Romance peoples ("Vlachs"), such as Aromanians, Megleno-Romanians, etc. Additionally, Macedonian is the only official language of the Republic of Macedonia. For that reason, it seems normal to me that passports are only ever published in the official language of the respective state (do other countries do this differently?). In my opinion, Macedonia has one of world's best minority rights legislation and protection. UPDATE: Apparently the source claims that Albanians already have this right, but Albanian, because it's spoken by more than 20% of the total population, has this right enshrined in law (because, under some interpretations, it is the second official language of the country). It is also declared as an official language after Macedonian (Article 7 of the Constitution). Other languages do not have this right, not because of any discrimination, but because they simply don't have the numbers to pass the threshold. Just because the 100 Italians that live in Oradea don't have the right to use their language in justice system (where the cutoff is 20%), or the 2000 Georgians who live in Spain (made up stats) don't have their language officially-recognised doesn't amount to discrimination. In any case, this is not Anti-Romanian discrimination.  Ronline ✉ 08:22, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, that's not a discrimination. There are around 20,000 remaining Vlachs in Macedonia that fully identify themselves as Vlachs. Macedonia give them all kind of rights and allow Ro to have schools for them, etc., but you can't give every minority a passport in their own language. That's stupid. --Candide, or Optimism 01:10, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My bad. —Khoikhoi 01:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macedonia 

message: Please, no not add the sentence that the council only represented the Romanian population of the country. Among the members of the council, 101 deputies were self-declared Moldovan, 12 were Ukrianian, 8 were Russian, 7 were Bulgarians, etc. The ethnic composition of the council reflected that of the entire region. TSO1D 20:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sfatul Ţării 

message: User:Mikkalai refuses the normal conflict resolution process. While knowing this page is sensitive, he makes controversial edits without even letting a note on the talk page. I suggest we try to define a position here. Dpotop 20:26, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two issues 

message: The killing of 700.000 people out of some 3.5 million is a genocide by any measure. It is also a democide and a politicide, but it was not exclusively politic, and its result is mainly ethnic today. The overwhelming majority of these people were Romanian/Moldovan and the region was subject at the same time to slavicization by immigration of Ukrainians and Russians, and to ethnic engineering that resulted in the created in the creation of the Moldovan nation. Dpotop 20:26, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[democide]] vs. [[politicide]] 

message: I believe yes, because the Soviet anti-romanian discriminations have their roots in the refusal of the Soviet government to accept the decisions of the Chisinau Soviet. Therefore, they must be mentioned, to mark the continuity between Russian and Soviet policies. Dpotop 20:26, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the transition from Russian claims to Soviet ones in the evolution of anti-romanian discrimination? 

message: What about discrimination against Romanian immigrants (including Romanian Romas) in Western Europe?
:I believe this article is about discrimination against people of the Romanian ethnicity, not all Romanian citizens. TSO1D 13:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be written Roma ethnicity instead of Romanian Ethnicity.--Deguef (talk) 07:12, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have managed to either provide sources for the yet unref. statements or erase them altoghether. As of right now, all issues with the articles have been adressed. Creating a section on discrimination in Western Europe should however be more complicated. The only thing i can think of is the 2004 racist spanish song. Dapiks 17:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western Europe 

message: Rename the article Roumanian minorities and start from there. It does the discussion no good if all statements about these minorities come under the heading of an alleged hatred against them. The result is about as misleading as an article about the Jewish diaspora entitled "Antisemitism". 
And, it might perhaps be added, there IS antisemitism, for instance in Roumania; while there is no term as distinct to describe the situation of other minorities in Europe. 
Actually, to claim a "status of equal persecution" could be seen as a very right-wing concept within the Roumanian political framework itself. 
Attention, please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Klaus rabe (talk • contribs) 16:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure that is exactly the right title, but I agree that a more neutral title that would readily embrace positive as well as negative treatment would make more sense. "Minorities" is tricky because of the case of a possible majority in Hungarian-ruled Transylvania. - Jmabel | Talk 23:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Well how about the Moldovan SSR then? Of course Romanians formed a minority in the entire Union but a majority in the republic, so the term minority is probably not the best one as the Romanian population was also subject to discrimination at the republican level. TSO1D 15:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Concerning your argument on Transylvania, the article makes it quite clear that there were two rather distinct periods, with different arguments. During the middle ages, discrimination was largely defined by religion. However, it remains "anti-romanian" because the religious divisions corresponded to the ethnic ones. And it is not concerning a *minority*, because Transylvania was *not* an integral part of the kingdom of Hungary until 1948/1967. Then, after 1867, things changed indeed. The reason for persecution was no longer religion, because most Romanians already converted to Catholicism. Now, Hungarians wanted Romanians to speak Hungarian and declare themselves Hungarian in the censuses. This can be compared with what happened in other national states, but remains ethnic discrimination. And, of course, Romanians were a minority in the Kingdom of Hungary. But so did the Hungarians until 1900 (until 1910, if you count out the Hungarian-speaking Jews), as you can see [Demographics_of_Hungary|here]. Dpotop 10:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Your argument on "urban vs. rural" is also flawed. We are not talking, in Transylvania, about people asking to be left to be analphabets. Instead, the Hungarian government closed existing publicly-funded Romanian schools. You know, the situation of the Romanians was quite bad, but after their conversion to Greek Catholicism they did develop a class of intellectuals. BTW, it is this class of intelectuals that made possible the union of 1918. Dpotop 10:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the article 

message: (I've restored the talk page and am placing my comment at the bottom. I first wrote this without noticing that there was a deleted talk page.)
The reference apparatus is a mess. Hand-entered footnotes like "[2]". Multiple references with the same number. This should adopt cite.php... if anyone can tell what references are for what statements. - Jmabel | Talk 23:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bogdangiusca has now removed that citation, which is fine with me. - Jmabel | Talk 23:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference apparatus 

message: despite the similarity in name, the Roma are no more closely related to the Romanians than they are to the other peoples of Europe.
I think this comment, or explanation, is a bit unnecessary. It sounds more like an excuse than an explanation. It is also POV. Lastly, I'm not so sure that comment applies so well to Muntenians. --Thus Spake Anittas 20:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Roma comment 

message: As always, a few incompentent Romanian editors come here to write out of their memory on controversial topics such as this one without using sources. Because of their incompetence, others now want to delete the article. I say that all unsourced material is to be removed and only sourced statements and information should be kept. --Thus Spake Anittas 17:09, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It cannot be deleted as long as other similar articles exists. Why should this kind of articles regarding the balkanic countries, be deleted, but not the ones about other cultures? I wonder what would happen if articles like Anti-Pakistani sentiment, Anti-German sentiment, Anti-Polish sentiment, Anti-Arabism, Anti-Japanese sentiment, Anti-Iranian sentiments, Anti-Quebec sentiment, Anti-Australian sentiment, Anti-Pakistani sentiment, Anti-Mexican sentiment would be proposed for deletion together with the already proposed articles, in the same deletion series? R O  A  M  A  T  A A | msg  18:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some sources about: . R O  A  M  A  T  A A | msg  18:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is irrelevant what other articles look like. Any article, including those you have mentioned, which is deemed as controversial and which does not present its (credible) sources can be challenged; and if no sources are presented, each unsourced material can be removed. This is a part of Wikipedia policy and for once in a lifetime, I agree with it. --Thus Spake Anittas 19:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  All unsourced material should be removed at once 

message: Where the mayor or Rome himself made some anti-Romanian declarations? Somebody whould include these recent news  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nergaal (talk • contribs) 08:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What about the recent events in Italy?

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Anti-Romanian sentiment. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060830230721/http://www.ukrcensus.gov.ua:80/eng/organization/ to http://www.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/organization/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071027141344/http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=149&document=19. to http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=149&document=19.
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071027141344/http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=149&document=19. to http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=149&document=19.
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090514084325/http://www.saske.sk/cas/1-2000/gulpa-petrisce.html to http://www.saske.sk/cas/1-2000/gulpa-petrisce.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071027141332/http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=146&document=3 to http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=146&document=3
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:18, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Anti-Romanian sentiment. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071027141344/http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=149&document=19. to http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=149&document=19.
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071027141344/http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=149&document=19. to http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=149&document=19.
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090514084325/http://www.saske.sk/cas/1-2000/gulpa-petrisce.html to http://www.saske.sk/cas/1-2000/gulpa-petrisce.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071027141332/http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=146&document=3 to http://noinu.rdscj.ro/article.php?articleID=146&document=3
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:32, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified