Talk:Right-hand rule

message: The purpose of the right hand rule is to make it EASY almost TRIVIAL to realise is or will happen in a situation.  The language used to describe the rule is way to complex to be easily understood.  This page is far from being one of the best pages on wikipedia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.175.94 (talk) 23:26, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Overly complex language

message: The existing diagram is problematic in that the orientation of the axies is ambiguous since each is just a line. It needs something more to make them pop out. —BenFrantzDale 04:41, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this better? –Gustavb 03:56, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New diagram

message: Vehicle: Well, on the other side of the vehicle it is different!
Also mention that how some of us remember how to turn a screw is to
stick up our right thumb...
--User:Jidanni 2006-04-20 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.200.105.231 (talk) 17:06, 19 April 2006 
* Some but not all vehicles use lugs or bolts with left-handed threads on one side. (I presume because the torque the wheel experiences during braking can slightly rotate the wheel relative to the hub, and the resulting torques on the nut or bolt are slightly higher on their outer edges than their inner ones, due to the greater distance from the center of the axle, and it's possible for the net force to overcome friction and slightly loosen the threads; using the thread that makes braking tighten rather than loosen them prevents a dangerous accumulation of the loosening.) --Jerzy•t 09:44, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Screws are when I use the rule most 

message: Change "shortest" to "shorter" and "over" to "through"
There are two and only two possible arcs for measuring the angle from a to b, one sweeping clockwise, the other counterclockwise. With only two possibilities "shorter" is the appropriate adjective. If clockwise sweep is shorter, then counterclockwise sweep is longer, and vice-versa. "through" is probably is a better usage compared to "over".
Subhash 23:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Direction associated with Rotation

message: Add "clockwise and counterclockwise"
There are two and only two possible rotations in the coordinate planes: so at least for engineering computations, these two senses, clockwise and counterclockwise ought to be incorporated in the definition. Any one inclined to edit this out ought, in the very least state if there are more possibilities in 3-dimensional space, that is 3 coordinate planes.
Subhash 00:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Direction associated with Rotation

message: Add phrase "by choosing the shorter angle, 90 degrees clockwise or counterclockwise"
There are two and only two choices in determining y-axis with known or arbitrarily chosen x-axis one rotating 90 degrees clockwise, other 90 degrees counterclockwise. If someone decides to edit this out, he/she has the obligation to suggest other possibilities of determining the y-axis. This edit is in preparation for adding, to this article:
"Alternate Engineering Definition of Left and Right-hand rules for orthogonal Cartesian Coordinate Systems"
and eventually add to the Cross Product article unambiguous and unique correlation between sign of torque and rotational sense, i.e. clockwise or counterclockwise.
Subhash 00:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Applications of the Right-hand rule

message: The article mentions that there are three applications of the rule, but only seems to list two. The edit in which it was added was extremely small, only changing the word "two" to "three"129.123.210.30 05:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third application of right-hand rule? 

message: I'm trying to figure out how this rule is supposed to have a purpose. The description of how to make my right hand look like that picture doesn't seem to work out properly. If the thumb is along the a axis in the picture, how does that indicate c? What am I supposed to find out by positioning my hand and fingers this way? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.220.148.78 (talk) 22:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Direction associated with an ordered pair of directions" part is hard to understand 

message: I am not familiar enough with the topic to understand this article in its present form, let alone try and rewrite it. The stuff that is here at the moment is very technical even though it sounds like it is a technique for simplification. Could more specific used be added, as opposed to the generalisation that is present at the moment. Conrad.Irwin 11:15, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs cleaning 

message: These are the four main right hand rules which we learnt in physics. theres probably more though:
1) In a wire (current carrying conductor), the thumb  indicates the direction of current, and the fingers wrap around to form the direction of magnetic field.
2) In an electromagnet, the thumb points to the north side of the magnet, and the fingers wrap around to form the direction which the current flows (through the coiled wire).
3) For a wire in an extended field, or for a DC motor, the hand is stretched out such that the thumb and index finger are perpendicular. The thumb indicates the direction of of current, and the fingers indicate the direction of magnetic field. The force applied to the wire is denoted by the "slap" of the palm, that is, the direction which the palm pushes towards.
4) For a generator or a charged particle, the hand is positioned in the same way as in 3). The thumb denotes the velocity, the fingers are magnetic field, and the direction of the "palm slap" is the direction in which the positive charge flows (so if the particle is negatively charged, it moves in the opposite direction).
I heart duff 08:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These are all special applications of the same rule.  — Laura Scudder ☎ 20:35, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's not forget the right-hand-rule associated with the [[cross
-product]]. !jim 21:30, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Right hand rules 

message: A colleague wrote at talk:Right hand grip rule
Both this page and Right-hand rule say they're "related, yet different", but not how so. In my opinion, the RHGR is just an instance of the RHR, and that should be made clear. But maybe someone had a different view of the RHGR, as it's described as "a physics principle" (which doesn't fit the "rule" part). Would be nice if someone cleared this up. 134.130.4.46 02:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur with the merger.  In my experience the term "right hand grip rule" isn't used much, they are both called the "right hand rule", and as Jersy says are very closely related and should be explained in the same article. --ChetvornoTALK 14:47, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge.  This article already discusses several distinct applications of the human hand as a chiral reference object, consolidating here makes sense to me.  Incidentally, the illustrated "grip rule" is the same as the convention for right-twist or left-twist rope/yarn.  Although in that case the common mnemonic objects are the letters 'S' and 'Z', for left and right, respectively.  --Dfred (talk) 17:33, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

text:  Merge, Chetvorno's experience matches my own --royalfire
Added merge tags.  --Dfred (talk) 15:17, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

text: I agree that the articles should be split.  —DIV (120.17.163.66 (talk) 13:38, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with Right hand grip rule? 

message: Apart from the anthropomrphic coincidence that they both use the right hand, there is no reason to have these two quite distinct rules under the same article. It is significantly confusing to do so. It is particularly odd when the related left & right hand rules are in separate articles, but the quite different grip rule is merged!
The grip rule relates electrical current and magnetic field.
Fleming's right hand rule relates the induction of current due to motion in a field / (LH) the production of a force due to a current.
The use of the hand is coincidence, no more. In one case the open hand is a mnemonic for the orientation of axes in three-space, in the other a clenched hand reminds us of a helical direction. The rules don't even work unless the hand is moved from one position to another!
As the electrical principles are broadly unrelated in their meaning, there is scope for confusion. This is especially so as the rules are just about close enough to be confusable. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:36, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the articles should be split.  —DIV (120.17.163.66 (talk) 13:38, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split article into [[Right hand grip rule]] 

message: The picture on the Cross product page shows vector a as the index finger, b as the middle finger, and a cross b as the thumb.  The picture on this page defines a and b differently.  I believe the picture on the Cross product is more correct, and at least it seems that the two should agree with each other.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bkerin2 (talk • contribs) 22:56, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture is inconsistent with what is shown on the Cross product page 

message: I do not like this left and right hand rules. In order to apply them, you have to remember the position of 3 elements. When using a screw, it's quite clear where the rotation goes. So there is only one element to remember: right or left turning screw. --Huibc (talk) 16:11, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps the "screw" could be introduced (with a picture) as an alternate way to memorize the rule, but I think the "hand" should stay as the primary explanation, because: (1) it is usually explained that way in texts and physics classes, (2) not everyone is familiar with screws and their threads or has access to one, but everyone always has access to a hand (3) the rule is called the right hand rule.  --ChetvornoTALK 07:54, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain how can we relate a screw rule with a hand rule first.  There is no way we can relate the right hand rule and the right hand grip (thump) rule. One (right hand rule) describes the direction of current produced and the other (thump rule) just describes the direction of magnetic field produced when a current moves through a coil. Both are distinct mnemonics. And I don't understand why they merged both and why doesn't anybody explain it with references! Please explain how it can be related, in the article (and on this talk page for us to discuss) with references and clear evidences.Valchemishnuʘ 12:44, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replace left and right hand rules with left and right turning screw 

message: I was totally confused with this article, and I read the article left hand rule only get more confused.I am not able to say anything on this article.
That is why I just provide a source that may help to undo the merging of the article right hand grip rule and Fleming's right hand rule.
From NCERT Textbook for class 10, Science textbook (in English), Chapter 13 Magnetic Effects of Electric Current...
Right-Hand Thumb Rule (page no. 228)
A convenient way of finding the direction of magnetic field associated
with a current-carrying conductor is –
:Imagine that you are holding a current-carrying straight conductor in your right hand such that the thumb points towards the direction of current. Then your fingers will wrap around the conductor in the direction of the field lines of the magnetic field... This is known as the right-hand thumb rule.
This rule is also called Maxwell’s corkscrew rule. If we consider ourselves driving a
corkscrew in the direction of the current, then the direction of the corkscrew is the
direction of the magnetic field.
Fleming's right hand rule (Page no. 235)
The induced current is found to be the highest when the direction of motion of the coil is at right angles to the magnetic field. In this situation, we can use a simple rule to know the direction of the induced current. Stretch the thumb, forefinger and middle finger of right hand so that they are perpendicular to each other, as shown in Fig. 13.18. If the forefinger indicates the direction of the magnetic field and the thumb shows the direction of motion of conductor, then the middle finger will show the direction of induced current. This simple rule is called Fleming’s right-hand rule.
Online view of book: http://www.iasexams.com/NCERT-Books/NCERTBooksforClass10/FreedownloadClass10ScienceNCERTBook/Class10_Science_Unit13_NCERT_TextBook_EnglishEdition.pdf
From NCERT Science textbook for class 10
Does this make it clear that these two mnemonics are different? Valchemishnuʘ 14:12, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uhnacceptable merging: Is this enough? 

message: When impacting a magnetic field (with North up), electrons are deflected to the left as if they were being bounced off a clockwise rotating force field. Does that imply that a magnetic force line can be considered to be a clockwise rotating vortex of some material?WFPM (talk) 22:00, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Electron Deflection

message: How would this be extended to 4 dimensions? Which direction would the fourth axis have to point (if there's even a reasonable way of describing that mathematically). Obviously it wouldn't be able to be represented by a hand, but what's an algebraic way of stating "right-handed system" or "left-handed system"? 69.180.172.142 (talk) 09:10, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  4D 

message: ..."Let's add in K. Marinas' Two Hand Rule." I mean, in some respects, this is far more helpful approach in that you don't have to make a weird sign with your fingers, and you get to differentiate between electron current and "conventional current".
Furthermore, if you want to know the direction that current would flow if you moved the lines of a magnet perpendicular through a conductor, all you have to do imagine your thumb as being the magnetic pole, then gently contract your fingers around your thumb when moving your hand down and gently release your fingers straight when moving your hand up. As far as knowing what hand to use for a given pole (N or S) and charge (+ or -), the diagrams on the right show us how using four symbols that I like to call:
"North-Positive"Corresponds to the traditional right-hand rule	a curvaceous N with arrowheads at both ends      	CCW from observer point of view - Use Right Hand.
"South-Negative"                                              	a curvaceous S with opposing arrowheads at center	CCW from observer point of view - Use Right Hand.
"North-Negative"                                              	a curvaceous N with opposing arrowheads at center	CW from observer point of view - Use Left Hand.
"South-Positive"                                              	a curvaceous S with arrowheads at both ends      	CW from observer point of view - Use Left Hand.
Fortunately N is the first letter for "North" and S the first letter for "South". Had these letters been the other way, the direction would have been completely backwards. Also, had one or both of these letters had been something other than N or S, then the "Two Hand Rule" would not even exist. It's an amazing coincidence, if it is one at all.siNkarma86—Expert Sectioneer of Wikipedia86 = 19+9+14 + karma = 19+9+14 + talk 10:31, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  I have a strange feeling that it will take more than 100 years for scientists to be bored enough to say... 

message: The section Right hand rules for electrical wire "cutting" magnetic field lines seems to refer to a missing diagram.  Even if the diagram was present, the directions for the process are so poorly explained that the non-technically educated readers who come to this page to learn it are going to be baffled.   --ChetvornoTALK 01:52, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Deleted section. --ChetvornoTALK 20:07, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on 'electrical wire "cutting" magnetic field lines' is incoherent 

message: As stated above and elsewhere on the internet, plus very vague memories of O Level Physics, Maxwell has a rule on this too so shouldn't he be named checked?
: Maxwell's is the corkscrew rule. Ampere's is the grip rule.  Fleming's is the three orthogonal fingers rule.
: This article is awful and ought to be deleted outright (or stripped into a disambiguation page). It confuses every physical concept it can find, just because they have the same body part as a mnemonic. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:38, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree the article needs a lot of improvement; in particular it should explain where the electromagnetics rules come from.  But I don't think it would improve comprehension to give each rule its own page and make this a disambiguation page.  All of the electromagnetics rules are related, and it would be good to have them together to explain that.  But more importantly, these rules are confusing for general readers, and it will be easier for them to disentangle if all the right-hand rules are in one article. I think Fleming's right-hand rule should be merged here too.  --ChetvornoTALK 20:16, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Shouldn't Maxwell get a name check?

message: This article should really show (diagram) two (alternative forms) of the right hand rule for the relationship between F / B / I (or v) in the electromagnetism section (the three fingers version and the two fingers and palm version)
Paul S. (talk) 20:47, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Two missing right hand rule diagrams

message: , thank you for your 19 contributions to this article. I believe your 19 contributions were made in good faith, with the intention of bettering wikipedia and bettering the "Right-hand rule" article. Unfortunately, some of the information you added was unsourced, poorly sourced, or factually wrong. Please familiarize yourself with WP:NOR. If you believe the information you added was not original research, please provide a reference to a reliable source that supports your claim. Thanks. Brian Everlasting (talk) 18:30, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not aware of any original research and cannot find anything false or self-contradictory. You must be seeing something that I don’t see. Please remove anything false and fix anything that needs correction or improvement. Since I don’t feel like spending a week digging through books, feel free to remove anything not cited, although I would not remove anything unless It is somehow bad. The right- and left-hand rules exist to deal with handedness and we must briefly describe the cases before giving the rules. Things with handedness are coordinates, rotations and spirals, electromagnetic fields, vector cross products and others. Mirror images and chirality are over my head. Benjamin Trovato (talk) 14:37, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason I removed the information was that it was not cited, and it was bad. Please keep your personal beliefs in your sandbox. Thanks. Brian Everlasting (talk) 03:26, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

text: I was unaware that co-ordinates and screws do not have right and left hand rules. Could you direct me to a book that would correct my ignorance?Benjamin Trovato (talk) 03:47, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, thanks for asking. I would love to correct your ignorance. Before I correct your ignorance, could you please explain to me exactly what it is that you are ignorant about? Brian Everlasting (talk) 07:26, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought that co-ordinates and screws have right and left hand forms, as in the linked articles. I also thought that the rotation axis can be right or left handed and you need to know which to compute the torque. Benjamin Trovato (talk) 20:23, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been waiting three weeks to have my ignorance corrected. I would be inclined to restore the information unless someone has a better idea.Benjamin Trovato (talk) 03:21, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

text: Restored.Benjamin Trovato (talk) 23:14, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

text: I am restoring this information because at least 20 pages depend on it for a simple explanation of handedness. If someone seriously thinks that coordinates and rotations do not have handedness, please explain here before removing. Thank you.Benjamin Trovato (talk) 22:18, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I consulted with Dr Stacy Kenny about this issue and I am waiting for an explanation from Stacy. Hopefully Stacy will publish an answer on Twitter that I can reference. Brian Everlasting (talk) 01:48, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Information about Right-hand rule (removal of information)

message: At Spherical_coordinate_system#Conventions there are references to various spherical coordinate system parameterisations that are claimed to lead to either a left-handed coordinate system or a right-handed coordinate system, with a link to this article.  
However, the present article suffers from two problems:
* it is a mish-mash of various meanings of "right-hand rule", such as for flow of electricity;  
* the text germane to coordinate systems tacitly assumes that the coordinate system must be Cartesian, not curvilinear.  
If it is possible to define the handedness of curvilinear coordinate systems, then the definition and adequate explanation should be provided in this article.  
—DIV (120.17.163.66 (talk) 13:36, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This article had a description of left- and right-handed coordinates, but someone removed it. See history section, article status as of 06jun. Wikipedia no longer has a clear account of handedness that I am aware of. Benjamin Trovato (talk) 00:38, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Handedness of curvilinear coordinate systems 

message: The present article reads
: "For right-handed coordinates the right thumb points along the z axis in the positive direction and the curling motion of the fingers of the right hand represents a motion from the first or x axis to the second or y axis."
The "Cartesian coordinate system" article reads
: "If the index finger of the right hand is pointed forward, the middle finger bent inward at a right angle to it, and the thumb placed at a right angle to both, the three fingers indicate the relative orientation of the x-, y-, and z-axes in a right-handed system. The thumb indicates the x-axis, the index finger the y-axis and the middle finger the z-axis."
George Rodney Maruri Game (talk) 05:20, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: These two definitions are equivalent.  If you cyclicly permute the axes of a right-handed coordinate system, the result is another right-handed coordinate system; (x,y,z), (y,z,x), and (z,x,y) are all right-handed if one of them is ( Lee, p.18,   Andrews, p.150)  So changing the 2nd definition to: "the thumb indicates the z-axis, the index finger the x-axis, and the middle finger the y-axis" also gives the right hand rule and is identical to the first definition: this can be seen if you curl the index finger representing the x-axis to be parallel to the middle finger y-axis. --ChetvornoTALK 06:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Right-hand rule: Clarification on the permutationally cyclic aspects 

message: The opening sentence reads (emphasis mine) "In mathematics and physics, the right-hand rule is a common mnemonic for understanding the orientation of axes in three-dimensional space." Is "mnemonic" the correct word here? I think it is more of a convention. There is an alternate reality somewhere that use a "left hand rule" and they are just as correct as we are, they just happen to have defined a different convention. 50.34.92.170 (talk) 22:40, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the word "Mnemonic"