Talk:Minnesota/Archive 5

message: I was also thinking about expanding tribal government and reservations.  They're barely mentioned, and I don't think it should just be a white man's history of the state.  (I'm thinking about doing this after submitting for FA.)  Appraiser 05:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Iowa may have us beat per capita. I started filling in attendances at State fair this summer, it needs to be finished yet. Do you think you can work something on the Minnesota State Fair into the culture section in the next day or two? I would like to nominate for FA on 11/27/07. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 06:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Stuff to add

message: Questions and suggestions:
* Edit Race and Ancestry to go with list or text, but not both 
* Edit taxation section to reduce detail on metro sales taxes, and add sentence on school funding and referenda
* A commenter on the FA nomination thinks Symbols should be in a template rather than a list.
* I would be happy to take a crack at a conclusion-- most of these articles simple dwindle away in trivia.
Any comments?  Kablammo 13:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA nom 

message: I've added one non-metro picture. I think we should strive for pictures which serve multiple purposes, hence the addition of architects' names to the captions. It would be nice to have a few more scenic pictures.
My thoughts on further changes:
:-A good photo of Duluth's Aerial Lift bridge would be nice. It is an iconic structure, bringing together both road and water transport.  Add it to transportation section at the top, with the Hiawatha train below it (maybe offset to the opposite side).  Unfortunately the existing pics of the lift bridge are not ideal.
:-I'm personally not enamored of the picture of the quarter.
:-We've lost the one winter picture (train in a drift, which was a little outdated).  Is there another one which might suit?  A sled-dog team, perhaps?
:-Farming (rolling-fields type) in geography section or logging picture in history?
:-Lake Superior picture?  Maybe something like which I suspect is taken from Palisades Head.
On pictures, opinions may vary.  Weigh in with your views.  Kablammo 15:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What part of the state you from Kablammo? Appraiser and I are both suburbanites, so we probably have an ingrained cities bias. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 16:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the bank picture.  Have you looked in Category:Images of Minnesota?  Every time I see a picture where the summary says it's in Minnesota, I add it to the category.  It's getting to be a nice collection.  The quarter is repeated in the econimy article - it could be replaced here.  The train pic is in the climate article; there's also a snowy urban picture there that could be snagged.  How about:
Image:AerialBridge and CanalPark.jpg
Image:Duluth canal.jpg
File:LakeSuperior from Duluth in Winter.jpg
Image:RochesterMNgeeseXmas.JPG
Image:Phelpsmill ottertailcounty.jpg
Image:Cedar River.jpg
Image:Voyageurs_National_Park.jpg
  Appraiser 16:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I live or have lived in NE, S, central, and Metro.  I added some pics and edited some captions for format.  If there are better ones, have at it. I really like the mill picture above-- add to history? Kablammo 18:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: I am not sure where this could fit.  
6,000 Prisoners Of War Came to Minnesota in 1944-45  "Escapes and escape attempts were almost unheard of among the 6,000 prisoners of war sent to Minnesota.
", "In all, the prisoners of war — called PWs and not POWs during World War II — worked at 21 branch camps located throughout the state.", "Generally, Simmons said, the prisoners got along well with the local people, and the men often went to work each day with no guards present.", "Other prisoners would spend their free time fishing, and it was discussed for a time whether they needed to buy fishing licenses.
"Only in Minnesota could you have a debate about whether prisoners of war should have to buy fishing licenses."
It has been my impression that many German POWs decided to stay in the U.S., or returned to the U.S. after repatriation.  I can't find a reference to that.  Also, I had thought that this added signidicantly to the German population, but in review I am not sure that a few thousand german POW's would put much of a dent in the previous German immigrant population.
*German POW Finds Home In America
*World War II book offers insight into Minnesota's POW camps
*POW families revisit history in Minnesota
*How should we treat our enemies?
Atom 15:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You could add it to Demographics of Minnesota, I am not sure it would fit in this article. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 16:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  German POWs 

message: I removed these two statements because they need citations.  Rather than add a , I'll put them here for possible future inclusion into the appropriate paragraphs with citations: "The forestry industry is presently threatened by decertification of sustainability of state forests administered by the DNR.  Rampant ATV/OHV use in the state's forests have had destructive impacts."
I don't want unsourced statements in the article during the FA process.  Appraiser 04:05, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  Sourcing should not be difficult for the first.  The legislature took up the second issue in the last session; I don't know if any legislation ensued.  A more neutral word than "rampant" would be appropriate.  Kablammo 04:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  last I have heard MN forests are doing better than ever. I agree they should stay here until sourced. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 04:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Two non-sourced statements

message: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links) says the following:
 
#A link for any single term is excessively repeated in the same article, as in the example of overlinking which follows: "Excessive" is more than once for the same term, in a line or a paragraph, because in this case one or more duplicate links will almost certainly then appear needlessly on the viewer's screen. Remember, the purpose of links is to direct the reader to a new spot at the point(s) where the reader is most likely to take a temporary detour due to needing more information;
# However, note that duplicating an important link distant from a previous occurrence in an article, may well be appropriate (but see the exception about dates, below). Good places for link duplication are often the first time the term occurs in each article subsection. Thus, if an important technical term appears many times in a long article, but is only linked once at the very beginning of the article, it may actually be underlinked. But take care in fixing such problems. If an editor finds themselves "reflexively" linking a term without having a good look around the entire article, it is often time to stop and reconsider.
There have been un-link-ififications and re-link-ifications in the last few weeks. I say we leave multi links in unless they appear within a paragraph and half. The article is pretty long so having the BWCA linked 3 times is not a big deal. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 04:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  multi-wikilinking 

message: es:Minnesota is an FA! I looks like it is based on the English page from a few months ago. Worth a look. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 02:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. One of the nice things about putting images on Commons is you get to see wider use of them. Jonathunder 15:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree. I like the state quarter image, and seems to fit with the Economy section. Jonathunder 15:48, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Anyone know a graphic designer? We should have someone with a good eye do our images. I agree on the state quarter image. Another reason that image is cool is that every other site has their quarter on their page. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 17:32, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ES FA 

message: Hi Ravedave, Kablammo, et al: I've finished editing the article (which I started at Ravedave's request) and I think it's in great shape. Hope you agree. Please check for any unintended fact changes (and ignore the intended fact changes :) that may have resulted from my edits. –Outriggr § 04:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I should add that there is always chance of rubbing someone the wrong way when edits are made. If you want to question any of my changes, please let me know which, here. –Outriggr § 04:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you.  I think vast majority of your re-wording are improvements.  When reviewing your edits, I often asked myself why I didn't think to re-phrase the sentences the way you did.  Although I'm not an expert on English usage, I thought that the words governor, senator, congressman, judge, etc. should not be capitalized unless they are used as a title. e.g. "After the press conference, Governor Pawlenty ate lunch."  And, "the reporter said that Minnesota's lieutenant governor looks like a woman."  You capitalized several instances of words like this that I believe shouldn't be capitalized.  Am I mistaken?  Appraiser 05:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you. For those capitalizations, I'm really not sure. I looked at other Wikipedia articles and saw that State Auditor, Lieutenant Governor, Governor, etc. tend to be capitalized, whether or not they're naming anyone specific. As official government titles, I would think they'd be capitalized, maybe with "governor" and "senator" as exceptions in common usage. I'll let the American contingent decide which is best. :) –Outriggr § 06:10, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For those interested, read this .  The gist of it is that titles should be capitalized only if they refer to a specific person.  I'll take a look and see if anything needs to be changed in light of this. Appraiser 16:29, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

text:  Hi Appraiser: I can go either way on the capitalization issue, but you recently italicized "Precambrian", "Canadian Shield", and some of the regions of Minnesota.  I don't think is advisable. –Outriggr § 04:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review 

message: This ref is causing an error in the list of references (#11)...     Gopher backer 17:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Problem with a ref

message: Looking at a small sample of recent Main page articles, most of them seem to have appeared within a month after receiving FA status.  A message appeared on the talk page about 5 days in advance, announcing which day the appearance would occur.  One I looked at (Battle of Austerlitz) appeared 8 months after being designated FA.  I didn't see any particular reason for the delay.  Another, History of erotic depictions appeared 8 days after the designation.  That one needed several hundred reverts during the day of its feature.  I think if we start to see a lot of changes on our day, we should move to freeze it for the day asap.  People with legitimate suggestions can come back the next day. Appraiser 01:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Take a look at the diffs for the day an article is on the front page. The vandalism is always worth it. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 03:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I didn't realize this request queue existed.  I wonder why some of the articles on that list have been there so long.  Raul654 definitely doesn't take them in order.  Cleveland and Vancouver have both been there for a while.  I wouldn't think Minnesota would jump ahead of them.  I like the BWCA picture, and also the Lake Calhoun fisherman picture - showing the juxtaposition of urban and scenic spots.  What's going to grab the readers' attention the most?  Appraiser 02:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Featured article