Talk:HM Fort Roughs

message: I've been busy merging and consolidating articles. A lot of redundant, competitive material has gone, and we have some slicker articles now. However, I didn't find a home for this paragraph which I have just removed from HM Fort Roughs. It clearly doesn't belong there, as it's not about the fort per se, it's about sovereignity (Sealand) or Radio Caroline and related ventures. The info also happens to be unsourced. I'm posting it here so that an interested party can place it in the correct article (but not back into HM Fort Roughs please!)
:The history of contemporary claims* appears to have begun with people associated with Alan Crawford who started Radio Atlanta which later became a part of the Radio Caroline network owned by Ronan O'Rahilly. Alan Crawford outlined a scheme to turn a sandbar into an artificial island using junk cars filled with concrete as a means of holding added landfill in place.
*of sovereignity over man-made structures in the sea by pirate radio operators
--kingboyk 01:37, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed Text

message: I found this support cross section picture rather interesting and if it's avalable for upload to wiki then somone should add it>
*http://www.seanhastings.com/havenco/sealand/index2.html
*http://www.seanhastings.com/havenco/sealand/crosssection.jpg
Photo of the Inside the support leg. It appears to be living quarters
*http://www.gunfleet.com/page6/files/page6-1112-full.html
More pictures of Sealand and Roughs Tower are mixed in here:
http://www.gunfleet.com/page6/page6.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.125.89.33 (talk) 06:43, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These are all dead links leading to spam dens Santamoly (talk) 17:08, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photographs of Sealand 

message: I'm wondering if much of the detail here would better belong in Principality of Sealand, Legal status of Sealand,  or Radio Essex (pirate radio station), or be deleted as excessive detail for a general enyclopedia. My feeling is that this article should concentrate on the platform itself (and could even be merged into Maunsell Forts). Right now it has a lot of info on law, pirate radio and Radio Essex, some of which is duplicated elsewhere, and much of which isn't totally on topic.
Please see Talk:Principality_of_Sealand#Sealand-related_articles. --kingboyk (talk) 15:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be because this article was originally called "Sealand: A Legal History". Deffo need to get some of this material into a Radio Essex article, some of it into Sealand articles, and some of it zapped pronto... leaving a nice article on the construction and wartime use of the fort and a potted history of it's post war life. --kingboyk (talk) 14:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of this has absolutely no relevance to HM Fort Roughs. I am going to delete the information that has no relevance, and anything that needs to be added to the other articles can be found in the history page of this article. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate (talk) 10:28, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevance of detail 

message: I have rewritten the article, as it is about the fort itself. It now recounts the history of the fort up to 1967 when the Principality of Sealand was founded - after that it becomes part of the history of Sealand. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate (talk) 10:59, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with this heavy-handed approach. Modern uses of various forts continue to appear in the articles for those forts. To pretend that there is not a continuing story regarding the Sealand nonsense is an attempt to obfuscate reality (even if it is a preposterous reality).  The fort continues to exist. It is now occupied by individuals making the claim to be an independent country. This is part of the modern history of the fort, just as modern changes and uses at various other historical forts belong on their pages, a limited objective account of the current status and uses belongs here as well. To not have it is a glaring omission, and detracts from the article.  71.239.87.100 (talk) 16:51, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewritten

message: And it is not possible to click through to a larger version - why cannot it be a .jpg file rather than SVG (whatever that is). 80.0.103.195 (talk) 23:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text in diagram too small to read 

message: I have moved the location given in the header from the location on OpenStreetMaps to the location (only 160 m away) on maritime charts, and in view of discussions at Talk:Principality_of_Sealand#Coordinate_error and Talk:Principality_of_Sealand#Google_Maps I have added a shortish section explaining the anomalies.  But there was some useful info I left out when attempting to condense the section, and in spite of that, someone in the future may consider it too long for the main article and delete it, so here is the original with all the info.
(If anyone wonders how I worked out the distances, I used the FieldenMaps.info site to convert d/m/s coordinates to OS grid refs, and used Pythagoras to calculate the diagonal -- which is pretty close to original research, and while I thought it OK -- simple maths on info from a web site, I didn't fancy justifying it, so another reason why I reduced what I put in the main article.)
The fort can be found online on UK Ordnance Survey maps at grid reference TM3964227615 which, according to FieldenMaps.info corresponds to 51°53′3.9″N 1°28′54.0″E using the WGS84 coordinates normally used for GPS.  It is shown about 160 metres from that location in OpenStreetMap, at . However, Bob Le-Roi's Fort Fanatics webpage visited on 28 Sep 2011, states that charts (not available online) show the fort at  in WGS coordinates which similarly corresponds to 51°53′3.9″N 1°28′54.0″E , about 90 m away from the OS location and 160 m from the OSM location. Maritime charts are normally considered more authoritative than land maps for location of maritime obstructions, so those coordinates are chosen for this article.  OpenStreetMap notes that the structure includes a helipad.
The structure does not appear in the aerial views on Bing Maps, Google Maps or Google Earth.  However, neither do the adjacent (somewhat larger) sandbanks at Rough Sands and Cork Sand, or the marker buoys for them.  Those photographic services do not guarantee to include items remote from land.  Generic "sea" photos may have been used.
Enginear (talk) 22:25, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If you zoom in at the shoreline, you can easily see if the imagery is actually continuing out to sea, or if there is a telltale jagged edge where imagery changes to a generic ocean textured tile. Friecode (talk) 04:18, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Location 

message: …to capture the essentials of the current, continuing story of the Fort's use. It's history did not end in I966, any more than did the American St. Augustine and other forts, globally, as their uses have changed, becoming commercial, park-type or other entities.  71.239.87.100 (talk) 16:47, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: See also comment made above, in the "Rewritten" section. 71.239.87.100 (talk) 16:52, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs updating 

message: It would be helpful to have dimensions of this sea fort—the height of the towers, their diameters, and the dimensions of the superstructure, so the scale of this endeavor can be appreciated.  71.239.87.100 (talk) 17:04, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dimensions of HM Fort Roughs 

message: I've been studying this place for a while, and cannot understand the "150-300" people staffing numbers at all.  Looking at the picture it looks like a large mobile home on a couple pillars, and even if those pillars were hollow and contained lodgings, I could only picture a few people being in there.  Could someone please make this more plausible? Maybe by providing military schematic maps or blueprints or something?  Or at least something to make this not seem all fake?  Like somehow one guy recaptured the small artificial island from a big group of mercenaries?  This whole thing seems like a bit of a fraudulent big-fish tale.... please prove me wrong....
::184.66.83.37 (talk) 10:55, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size / Volume / Map