Talk:Pilum

message: Gaius Marius improved the pilums tendency to bend by replacing one of the metal rivets that attached the iron shank to the wooden shaft with a wooden one. He did not invent it; earlier pila bended as well on impact.
*I thought that the idea behind the wooden pin was that it would snap, making it impossible for the javelin to be used again even if the iron shank didn't bend.Cetot 17:42, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you make the reference more precise - chapter/paragraph number, that kind of thing? Gaius Cornelius 21:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done! Thanks for the suggestion. BroMonque 02:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gaius Marius and improvements to pila

message: If so, we should merge them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.172.233.90 (talk) 05:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: VANDALISM WARNING! This is subtle vandalism. There was never an article, Pilium. There's only a redirect putting you back to pilum. This was no there a few days ago. So, I'm taking out the vandalistic suggestion to merge with something that is not there.Dave 14:33, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look carefully at pilium's history page, you'll clearly see that when 65.172.233.90 edited the pilium page, it was NOT a re-direct. Travürsa (talk) 09:33, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this the same thing as the pilium?

message: The introduction claims the length of the iron head to be 60 cms, while Vegetius' commentary claims it to be in the region of 30cms. I claim no expertise in this subject, so hopefully someone more learned can elaborate.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.134.202.214 (talk) 23:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction of length 

message: Of course the pilum varied in size and weight over time and depending on usage. However the claims here on this site and also on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javelin are partly badly wrong.
A standard pilum used by a legionnaire is roughly 1.60m to max 1.80m and not as claimed over 2m. However cerimonial guards at a palace etc. partly had longer pilum. 
The pilum is usually a wooden shaft with roughly 1m length, perhaps 1,10m. The iron "head" is in fact a shaft from either iron or in older times copper, about 60cm to 70cm and a hardned tip (iron or steal); rarely shorter.
I don't know the actual weight, but certainly not 3kg as mentioned in the Javeline article and definitely not 3kg to 5kg as mentioned in _this_ article. Do you really believe a normal person can throw a 5kg pilum 10yards? Or even the claimed 20 to 30 meters? Go out and take a rock or a brick and try to throw it as far as you can ... 
A typical throwing pilum has a weight of 1kg to 1.5kg, heavier pilum as mentioned in the javeline article "Pictorial evidence suggests that some versions of the weapon were weighted with a lead ball at the base of the shank " where usually training weapons or the "lead ball" is not a ball but a crest with some insignia, e.g. on a guards pilum. Note: 5kg is a bit more than 11 pounds. Sidenote: I'm german, and my size is 172cm, the longest pila I ever had in my hands are roughly 185cm, and before you ask me for "citations" ... we have plenty original pila all over the place in germany either in museums or in private property. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saalburg
I assume the wrong "size" comes from misjudging pictures / reliefs. A typical roman at that time was perhaps 160cm tall. If you treat him like a 185cm man of our times, his pilum looks bigger, ofc.
91.198.67.77 (talk) 14:00, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Errors in weight and length 

message: Has anyone material about these? I've seen a mention of them but I'm not a hundred certain that they were actually used by the Romans. Bazuz (talk) 23:38, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incendiary pila 

message: What was wrong with the reference I gave? Bazuz (talk) 20:49, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sir Ian's edit 

message: The Siege of Alesia was during Julius Caesar's campaign in Gaul.  It has nothing to do with and is nowhere near Parthia.  Marcus Antonius would have been present though. 24.5.45.210 (talk) 10:02, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Siege of Alesia has nothing to do with Parthia.