Talk:List of Doctor Who episodes (2005–present)/Archive 2

message: This website contains some plot synopsi (synopsises?) for episodes like "Army of Ghosts", "Doomsday" and the tenth episode (they've called it "The Caverns of Doctor Moray"). I just thought it may interest a few of you here. Not sure about the authenticity of the suggested plotlines, though. QazPlm 03:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The DWCA did this for the first series, and their calls were usually way, way off, being based on rumor and speculation and supposition more than anything else. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 04:17, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: So it's not worth mentioning in the relevant articles, then? QazPlm 11:38, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not. Their credibility when it comes to these things is not good. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 11:56, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

text: "Synopses". --KJBracey 19:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I added the following reason for my previous edit: "→Series 2 (2006) - Torchwood is not mentioned in The Girl In The Fireplace 'because Russell T. Davies did not tell Moffat to drop the word in the script'. Other references found in the 2006 annual." (I wasn't logged in at the time, you see). Davies has confirmed that my edit is not speculation and that Torchwood is deliberately built up, like Bad Wolf was and that they are expanding on the Doctor's past. Phil 00:45, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Be that as it may, firstly, so far Torchwood isn't a story arc, just a drop-in name. Secondly, not every episode has Torchwood - yes, Davies didn't tell Moffat, but that doesn't take away from the fact that TGITF didn't have Torchwood mentioned. Thirdly, as noted in Talk:The Lonely God, there are no other running themes intended. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 01:05, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So wait until the end of the series to see were Davies is taking it? :p Phil 01:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. :) That's why stating anything in detail that definitively is premature. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 01:32, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, alrightie, I'll just content myself with abusing the Wikiquote section then. ;p Phil 01:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More plotlines? 

message: I think the addition of a section for "Others" makes sense (per the Outpost Gallifrey episode guide).  But I think it might be appropriate to have a short note about Attack of the Graske in the list after The Christmas Invasion — whether it's canonical or not, I think the circumstances of its airing link it with TCI enough to allow it to be mentioned in that context.  I'm thinking of something like:
:*174 - The Christmas Invasion (60-minute special; Russell T. Davies)
:::An interactive special, Attack of the Graske, was aired on digital television immediately after The Christmas Invasion.
Or something along those lines.  We could leave it in the "Others" section as well. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 16:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Others 

message: The section headings need to be fixed. Lots of them contain year ranges using a hyphen instead of an en dash. But there are apparently lots of other articles referencing the section headings via wiki links. 
Is there any way of fixing the typography here while keeping backwards-compatible anchor names? If not, people will just have to bite the bullet and go through fixing the wiki links. --KJBracey 23:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a way to program a bot to do this?  (I know nothing about such things, but it seems like the sort of repetitive task that a bot could do.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 08:08, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have now got rid of the hyphens and replaced them with en (& em) dashes where appropriate. I've embarked on changing all the anchor links from the individual story articles (dirty job but someone has to do it) and will then try and sort out the various other articles that also use anchor links. Chris 42 22:32, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

text: UPDATE: Have now fixed all anchor links from individual story articles. However, having done this it seems I've opened up another can of worms, as all the transmission date ranges therein are also joined by those pesky, incorrect hyphens instead of en dashes! I suspect that's a job for another day. I've also checked the vast majority of those other, non-story articles that linked and fixed those as well. Time for a lie down! Chris 42 23:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

text: The transmission date hyphens within the individual episode articles can be easily replaced, and I've started doing this (albeit a couple of Seasons at a time — there are obviously a lot of them). However, I've discovered that the 'Tenure' dates for the individual 'Doctor' pages can't be corrected quite so easily. They appear to use some sort of Wiki mark-up with which — being fairly new around here — I'm not familiar, and changing the hyphen to an en dash messes up the way it displays. Any ideas? Chris 42 21:26, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

text: All done! But guess what? Being so focused on zapping the hyphens from the transmission dates, I've just noticed they also appear within each serial title. Aaarggh! Strictly speaking they should read, e.g., 075: Robot. However, I'd be a bit wary of just going in and re-formatting them all without some sort of consensus. Chris 42 19:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well done, Chris.  I've given you the Working Man's Barnstar for all that tedious work.  I'd be OK with the hyphens after the numbers being replaced with colons, but I don't think it's quite as egregious a typographical problem as the hyphens you've replaced.  If you want to go through the serials again, feel free, but it's not urgent.  Up to you, really. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 22:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Section headings

message: It's not entirely accurate to state that The Christmas Invasion is not considered a part of series two; it would be more so to state that it's not a normal part of the series. The reasons for this, I would think, are self-evident enough. It was commissioned at the same time as series two; the production team refer to it as episode "20X"; it was filmed in the first block of series two production, along with the rest of seres two; thematically it's linked with series two; and it's to be included as the first episode on the first series two DVD (with episode 201 as the second). What's the argument against it being a part of series two again? That it was shown on Christmas instead of in a block with the other episodes? Clearly it's not just a normal episode, but come on. Semantics only go so far. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.139.13.38 (talk • contribs) 13:58, February 2, 2006  (UTC)
:This article specifically says "[The Christmas Invasion] is not considered part of Series 2 (2006), though that production's first block is shared with this." That's what I was referring to — I was just pointing out the inconsistency of this article.
:My personal view is that each should be treated as a pilot of their following series. In standard IMDb practice, that would make them "#21.0" and "#2.0", but that isn't necessarily what we want here. Given the formatting of this page, showing them both "stand-alone", like "The Christmas Invasion" currently, is probably reasonable. And I'd prefer that to showing "The Five Doctors" tacked on as the last episode of series 20.
:On the other hand, if it is the case that the DVD release is going to list it as episode 1 — making the others episodes 2–14, then that would certainly merit reconsideration. Will the BBC's website and TV guides during transmission show this series as episodes 2–14 though? They'd take precedence over a later DVD release, I think. --KJBracey 11:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Christmas Invasion

message: A section on the cancelled 1990 season was recently added. I'm not sure how I feel about it, so I've commented it out until I hear some other people's thoughts.--Sean Black (talk) 03:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Shouldn't be in this listing, even less so than The Nightmare Fair season, as we actually have stories for that thanks to the novelisations. None of these actually got beyond the outline stage, as I recall, e.g. Ice Time is referenced in the notes for Survival and in the Ace article. There are plenty of serials that were proposed but never made over the years, and many of them were actually at script stage, too. So why not them? Nothing special about a hypothetical season over other hypothetical episodes. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 10:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I'm inclined to agree, there are an awful lot of these cancelled stories that have some notability on their own. There's some information scattered about various serial articles...hmm.---Sean Black (talk) 10:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Maybe include it in History of Doctor Who? Tim! (talk) 10:42, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps after we split it up... which really should be done soon. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 11:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Still not back home yet, but I support Josiah's position: the Cancelled Season 23 should not be here, especially the way the numbers have been shoehorned in, which has no basis in any fan or official usage. If this, why not other unmade serials, or seasons like Season 27? These should all be in articles of their own. I'm removing it. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 09:46, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: As an added comment, if there's enough material for decent articles (and I'm quite sure there is, for both the cancelled Season 23 and Season 27), we could do articles on the lines of Season 6B, say Cancelled Season 23 (Doctor Who) (or a less awkward name) and Season 27 (Doctor Who), which could also mention by the by how some also refer to Series 1 as Season 27. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 09:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1990 Season 

message: Initially promoted as standalone episodes, all 13 episodes of the 2005 series also constitute a loose story arc, dealing with the consequences of the Time War and the mysterious Bad Wolf. Starting from this season, the programme was shot in 16:9 widescreen.
All episodes 45 minutes
:*161  - Rose (Russell T. Davies)
:*162  - The End of the World (Russell T. Davies)
:*163  - The Unquiet Dead (Mark Gatiss)
:*164 - Aliens of London / World War Three (2 episodes; Russell T. Davies)
:*165  - Dalek (Robert Shearman)
:*166  - The Long Game  (Russell T. Davies)
:*167  - Father's Day (Paul Cornell)
:*168 - The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances (2 episodes; Steven Moffat)
:*169  - Boom Town (Russell T. Davies)
:*170 - Bad Wolf / The Parting of the Ways (2 episodes; Russell T. Davies)</blockquote>
--KJBracey 15:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's in fact how it was originally listed way back in the day before the new series debuted, when we were trying to figure out how to list the two-parters for the new series as the info started to come out. I think it was restructured because the decision was made to split them into separate story numbers, but now that it's back together, I suppose it could go back. Other thoughts? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do actually think that looks better than the "a" and "b" designations, which are after all our creation and thus a bit OR-ish.  —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:11, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Series 1 (2005)

message: What is the reasoning behind the titles used in this listing? Is it just arbitrary, or preference, or is it according to some other listing? How do the DVD releases and the [website] figure into the discussion, if at all -- with mind that the titles that the serials are currently being catalogued and sold under are the only titles that will be known by new viewers, who would be the most likely to have use for such an entry?
:Mostly historical, as in the title with the best documentary evidence for its use at the time of transmission, with the sole exception of The Daleks (which is actually called The Mutants, but for reasons of confusion with the Pertwee serial is kept where it is). --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 11:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hartnell stories 

message: The new titles have been linked (pages moved/created where appropriate) and the first episode has an airdate, thanks to DWM #368.
See New Earth, The Impossible Planet, Love & Monsters (note ampersand), and Fear Her. Radagast 14:39, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Series 2 wrapped up 

message: Winning Moves, the makers of the Top Trumps card game have scheduled a "Doctor Who" pack for April 2006. This is information is available on their "New Releases" page at: http://www.toptrumps.com/club_newrel.asp, however you need to be registered with the site to view this information, which is free to join. Apart from "April 2006" being a release date there is little else to go on. - HeyWayne ( Talk • Contributions ) 08:31, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This information might be better placed at Doctor Who merchandise. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 16:17, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that merchandise is currently the best place for this. Tim! (talk) 16:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top Trumps 

message: I listed the An Unearthly Child pilot episode under the "Other" category. I reasoned that as the pilot, in addition to never being aired, made certain references that were not were not in the re-shoot/final version. As such I believe it should be considered non-canonical and it should have more in common with Dimensions in Time and The Curse of Fatal Death. Does anyone object? (Deej30) (01:49, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it confuses matters (which I why I removed it). The existence of the pilot (such as it is) is already documented in the actual AUC article itself, and since it was never aired and in fact remade (a different situation from The Cage/Where No Man Has Gone Before in Star Trek), there's no question about its canonical status - it just isn't. It's more appropriately discussed within the context of the AUC article rather than as if it were a separate entity from the AUC serial. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:00, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: An Unearthly Child Pilot Episode