Talk:European dark bee

message: The treatment of subspecies should be changed. If this bee is subspecies mellifera, it cannot have subspecies of its own. If the subspecies mentioned in the text are indeed closely related, then I suggest that the European dark bee is treated as a subspecies group. Dogo (talk) 11:41, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have re-arranged the wording to try and make sense and corrected it as per your comment.Bibby (talk) 15:37, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

text: I am seriously trying to locate any reference to the following anywhere, mellifera (brown bee), lehzeni (heathland bee), nigra (black bee), IF anyone has ANYTHING, please add it here! The ONLY thing I can find is the "mellifera (brown bee)" which is obviously the A. m. mellifera! I suspect that the others may be slight visual color variations within the same subspecie, but I can find no reference to either of them in the manner of this article. My feeling is that they therefore should be deleted, but I'll hold of for a while in the hope that someone has some new info. on this. Bibby (talk) 22:40, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

text: I'm going to delete the next sentence as well about the "Pomeranian brown...", etc. for the same reasons, I suspect that these 'names' are simply because the Amm happens to be in those locations, and nothing to do with genetics or even characteristics.Bibby (talk) 15:15, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Subspecies

message: 1. It is not clear how a subspecies can have "three main races". This doesn't make much sense and it needs to be clarified. It is also not clear if each one of the "three main races" divides into Pomeranian brown, Alps black and black Scandinavian.
2. The first image in this article is misleading because instead of saying that the bee comes from Savoy, it seems to imply there is a variety of bees called "Savoy" bees which is not the case. The last two photos in this article do not show the European dark bee but only a generic "European honey bee" and a "honeybee". In this article there should only be photos of European dark bees.
ICE77 (talk) 16:57, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have tried to fix this, I've also mentioned it in the image section below.Bibby (talk) 15:39, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments and suggestions 

message: Just posting here to document that User:Apismell2015 is going ham inserting a massive amount of copy/pasted information (though from where, I cannot tell - it certainly appears to be a study). DawnDusk (talk) 06:56, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war 

message: Why is the "Character" section mainly talking about hybrids (with the European dark bee) and telling us what it is not like. Surely this section should be detailing the Chacteristics of this bee?!?!?!Is123Biblio (talk) 00:41, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character 

message: The image on this wiki page is called a "Savoie honeybee" but I have never heard of this type of bee, nor have I been able to find anything about it from google searches, except referring back to wiki. Also, I'm not sure, but it's abdomen seems a bit big, from that view point it looks like a drone? Maybe a better photo could be chosen and the reference to "Savoie" be deleted?Bibby (talk) 18:00, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: There is a Link cited  , it is in German, but after going through it with Google Translater I cannot find any reference in it's pages to support the last Quality "possibly hardiness against Varroa" Bibby (talk) 22:25, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I have tried to search for a citation or reliable source, in fact any source, to try and back up this claim, but considering that the claim itself is strangely ambiguous, "possibly hardiness against Varroa" I think it is best to delete it until a source can be found to substantiate it.Bibby (talk) 18:16, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Qualities 

message: This section has so much wrong with it, I'm not sure where to start, I mean it even talks as if varroa mites were present in Europe at the end of WW2, when everyone knows that they didn't arrive for decades later! Please feel free to trim this down and try to get the glaring mistakes down to zero.Bibby (talk) 17:12, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The first sentence of the third paragraph has no citations, and I have, 1. been unable to find any for it and, 2. have found sources to contradict it, therefore I am going to delete it, if anyone can come up with reliable sources then please post here, and we can re-submit it.Bibby (talk) 21:13, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Significance 

message: This External Link "Waugh, Rob (11 July 2012). "Good to bee back: 'Extinct' British breed of honeybee found alive and well in church rafters after nearly 80 years". Daily Mail." has so many false statements that it detracts from this Wiki page, every beekeeper knows that the Spanish Flu had nothing to do with the Isle Of Wight Disease that wiped out the A. m. mellifera in the first half of the last century, and that's only the beginning: I'll give it some time, but unless someone can come up with a very good reason for keeping this newspaper article with very considerable inaccuracies I am inclined to delete it altogether.Bibby (talk) 18:48, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links 

message: This claim has been bugging me, I've heard it quite a lot, but no one can give me any more information except for the sentence here in the wiki article, "The breeding stocks in Central Europe were nearly destroyed by order of the Nazis, who considered the honey yields not up to modern standards and wanted to "improve" the bee stocks kept in areas under their control[citation needed].", I really have tried searching for a source for this. I suspect it must be somewhere, maybe in German?? But even after using GoogleTranslate, and quite a few hours, the best I can get is that after the war Germany decided to re-stock with A. m. carnica, coupled with the fact that there appears to have been heavy losses incurred by beekeepers during WW2 (not surprising) may have been the seed for this online / wiki myth. So without a Source I think we unfortunately need to delete this sentence, I would love it to be true as I love WW2 history and it's so interesting, I mean you can't help but to like a little bee that the Nazi's hated, right? But sadly we can't keep it, hopefully someone will read this in the future and know a Source so we can add it to this wiki article. Bibby (talk) 12:03, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: After a LOT of work and searching, in German mainly, I should point out! I believe I have eventually hunted down the source of this online rumor that the Nazi's tried to kill of the A.m.mellifera, in short they didn't, it appears to be a case of Chinese whispers, in that the Nazi's actually tried to protect the A.m.mellifera but after a Nosema epidemic they were mostly wiped out, and the beekeepers made the decision to repopulate their hives with the available A.m.carnica bees from Austria, thus replacing, not eradicating them! Bibby (talk) 13:09, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "...destroyed by order of the Nazis..."