Talk:Panelák

message: I have reverted all of the edits by Mr. Sabl while including his note about the equivalent of panelaks in other countries. Mr. Sabl's edits, while showing a healthy interest in the article, were not in great English and made the article somewhat confusing. I also removed the Russian picture, since the article refers specifically to buildings in the former Czechoslovakia. Finally, I agree with Mr. Sabl that the word "panelak" should not be in italics all the way through -- that would go against the assertion that "panelak" should be the English term. So I de-italicized it throughout, except where it falls under the "words as words" rule.
I've also cleaned up the lead paragraph a bit in a way I hope clarifies exactly what the article is supposed to be referring to. I think part of the confusion came from the probably erroneous information that "panelak" in English is "prefab." If that were true, the article should have been called "prefab." But "prefab" is not the equivalent of "panelak" -- it is just short for the adjective "prefabricated." There is no such thing as "a prefab" as far as I know. Mwalcoff 20:15, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert 

message: Exactly same buildings were built in other european communist countries. I see no difference between  Paneláks and Bloks in Poland. They are just as common here. Article needs to be renamed and cover similar buildings in Central and East Europe. exe 01:17, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The article was originall smaller and focused on Czechoslovakia. Over time people added more and more of general stuff. The general stuff should be moved into overview article. Pavel Vozenilek 21:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think exe is right to some extent. Perhaps we should have an article on Apartment buildings of the Soviet Bloc or something. -- Mwalcoff 22:53, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I left this discussion some time ago, giving up my tendency of persuading you to change this articles caption and I am pretty happy something has changed. YES YES YES Merge this article pleaaaase. It is absolutely stupid idea to pick one Czech word and start explaining why is this object different in Czech Republic than in other countries. It is not anyway. You can write article about "Auto", we don't call it "Automobile" in Czech Republic, explain the difference between Skoda and Mercedes, and pretend that Skoda is actually something absolutely different. These tower blocks, or as you call it "panelks" are build all over Europe and I doubt they call them panelak in France. --Josef Sábl cz 08:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: same builidings in other countries

message: Sorry, panelak is not "Soviet" invention. I am living in Wien-Leopoldau in the same "panelak". Huge parts of Paris are formed by "panelaks". Do you want to say Paris or Vienna are Soviet cities?
Idea of "panelak" was invented by French architects after II World War.
:I agree with all those who expressed concerns about this article. It really makes no sense to create a new page for each name use by all local languages to indicate "panel houses". A panel house is a panel house. Full stop. You can see very similar one (sometimes the same) all around the globe, since in the 2nd half of the XX cent it was a vey widespread way of building. I live in one of those buildings in Bologna, and it's also not "soviet" city (although very leftist, lol). The only differece is that, while in formet soviet or socialist countries it had no low-class attached meaning, in other places it had. But I really don't think this is a good motivation enough to start a separate article.
:In addition, "Panel house" redirects to this page, with a Czech name. Why should wikipedia, under "panel house" refer only to its Czech application?
:I think it should all be in a common article about panel buildings, with a subdivision by countries explaining differences and similarities (if there are).--Desyman44 (talk) 11:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Soviet" inventions 

message: Man, this article is still called "Panelák"? I check once in a while and it feels more creepy every time I visit. When will "počítač" article emerge, describing the typical Czech computer with the most common feature of stolen software installed. You are crazy, people, crazy :-) --Josef Sábl cz 22:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: English-speaking people in the Czech Republic call them "panelaks." There is no English-language equivalent, just like there is no equivalent to sudoku, filet mignon or piñata. -- Mwalcoff 00:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Panel building. There is. They use it or as a joke or because it's shorter (in some cases they just don't know the term)--Desyman44 (talk) 21:00, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Well, that article demonstrates that the term could be literally translated as "panel building" but doesn't demonstrate that it actually IS used, (certainly not more commonly than panelak) by actual english speakers. Moreover, if you look at the only citation on that article, it seems to show brick buildings that look nothing like panelaks. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 21:53, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Panelák, what a cool English term 

message: Comes a bit late, but here is the problem: a specific word on a specific language is used for something, that has many different names in many different countries, but in all of those countries its quite the same thing - and in english it's called a panel block. Every article considering this type of building should be merged into one with the name I just pointed out. I haven't heard anybody use the word "Panelak" in english. A new article should be formed, including the information about these buildings from all over the (former) communist world PLUS the Swedish and American projects. 
And one more thing - the low-quality and low design of the buildings (an allegation for every product from the former Eastern bloc) is a complete myth. Simply the now-defunct State Standarts didn't allow for the builders to use low-grade materials or not to do their job properly, as they would be severely sanctioned - and back then sanctions of any kind were not pleasant at all. -  Tourbillon A ? 21:36, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you find some references that use the term "panel blocks" for buildings the United States? Thanks. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 22:55, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have heard "panel block" and "prefabricated panel building" to be used often enough in english, but here are some english-language references   . -  Tourbillon A ? 10:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean from a non-industry source... like a newspaper... and preferably talking about something that looks like the panelak featured in this article, not single-family dwellings, and ideally, not from a Czech website translated into English. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 22:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "...pre-fabricated panel buildings that sprang up around the Soviet Union", , title of a journal at SpringerLink Housing conditions and self-reported health status: A study in panel block buildings in three cities of Eastern Europe, the best I could find at an immediate search. -  Tourbillon A ? 15:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

text: These both refer to socialist-bloc buildings, while my request was for usage of the term describing large panelak-style buildings in the united states. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 20:57, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently I misread, I thought you wanted sources for the usage of the term only for the Socialist bloc, so sorry for the time waste. Anyway the point is that it's useless for all this information to remain separated in several very similar to each other articles. I suggest this article, Panel building, Plattenbau, Ugsarmal bair and Khrushchyovka to be merged in a single article (either Panel block or Prefabricated panel building), containing additional information about Million Programme and Pruitt-Igoe. -  Tourbillon A ? 10:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not that I disagree that they could probably be merged, but I'm not sure they should be. First, I'm unconvinced that Panel building or Panel block are appropriate terms. I think they are neologisms and generally not used in English. Rather, I think people tend to use the local terms depending on what country they are talking about. Bear in mind that Krushchyovka is referring to something rather more specific than this article or Panel building. Secondly, while there is some repetition in these articles, there is a fair bit of country specific information in most of them that doesn't need to be dumped. While creating a main article to tie everything together might not be a bad idea, I don't necessarily think that means these other articles should cease to exist. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 02:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that might be a good idea, but considering the fact most of the information on these pages is very similar, a new article seems a rather logical and easier way to present all the common information. It wouldn't be a problem having "main article" links in the new page where all the country-specific info will be preserved (and possibly, reworked). Well, Google at least gives a reasonable result 201 000 for prefabricated building, apartment building and so on...In case a proper name can't be found, the article may be called Prefabricated panel constructions in the former Socialist bloc or something like it. -  Tourbillon A ? 15:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I remain unconvinced. Prefabricated building can mean a lot of different things, most of which don't need to be placed together. Does former Socialist Bloc include Yugoslavia? TheMightyQuill (talk) 02:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

text: I don't know. I still think it's a neologism that isn't used by almost anyone. If you want to create it, I won't stop you, but I still oppose merging at this point. I think there is plenty of information in these articles to make them worthwhile on their own. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 15:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well at this point we can wait for more opinions...-  Tourbillon A ? 09:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

text: I'll admit to a localist view, but I'd argue you both have an overly technical view. Panelaks and other similar buildings constructed under socialism are not simply a method of construction, like Stonemasonry. They are significant cultural elements, representative of socialist production, socialist planning, and ongoing legacies of these. When Václav Havel called them "undignified rabbit pens, slated for liquidation," he's not talking about a method of construction. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 14:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging and something else 

message: Hey people, I have the evidence that Italy is a post-communist country of eastern Europe! Look at this:
thumb|left|300px|Rome
thumb|center|250px|Milan
And this! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Cd2g7K1pFb4/SmT4ZK8HqTI/AAAAAAAAEqU/qB3hZU7p46c/s400/pilastro_virgolone.jpg
Well, according to the notorious thesis of many contributors to the discussion, this seems to be the only meaningful conclusion...!--Desyman44 (talk) 15:52, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  incredible! 

message: I believe the article is too focused on the Czech/Slovak instances of the Soviet-era panel apartment building. Those types of structures are prevalent in all of the countries who were under heavy Soviet influence at the time. This would include the likes of Poland, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Belarus. Plus, the article cites little to no references to the actual use of the term in Western media. And since that type of building is commonly found in other countries as well, I don't see why the article should be named with the Czech term. - Reanimated X (talk) 12:07, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It uses the czech term because it's focused on Czech/Slovak instances. Various artistic and architectural movements in different countries are "heavily influenced" by others, but can still merit their own article. There seems to be plenty of content here. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 15:08, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Then another question pops up. Is it notable enough, are the Czech/Slovak instances mentioned enough in the foreign press to deserve their own separate article, since there isn't much difference between all the instances of this type of building in different countries. Shouldn't this article be reworked in order to encompass all of the instances? - Reanimated X (talk) 15:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: A number of people, including myself, have argued yes several times. Please look back through the talk page to see why. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 15:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have read it, and no one has countered Dan's arguments so far. And nowhere did I find anything about the article's notability in the above sections. - Reanimated X (talk) 16:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: A broader article is located at Tower bloc, and you are of course welcome to expand it to include details of other soviet-influenced architecture. I don't believe there is a more suitable term than Panelak for describing these buildings in the Czech Republic. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 18:00, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You have not replied to any of the points I have made since we've started this discussion. For example, all the other instances of such panel buildings constructed of pre-fabricated, pre-stressed concrete in the other ex-communist countries being included here. And if not, is the Czech variant of the building notable enough to deserve its own article. - 19:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have responded to some of your points, but you're right, I didn't respond to your suggestion that it isn't notable. I disagree that it isn't notable. I think there is plenty of content in this article without broadening the topic and I think there is a good, if not overwhelming, amount of press about them. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 01:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subject of the article 

message: 1) This kind of building technology in English is called Large Panel System or LPS.
2) This is not the same thing as a tower block, which only includes what in Slovakia are called "veziaky" rather than "radova zastavba" and it also includes non-LPS tower blocks.
3) The term "panelak" in Czech and Slovak is not restricted to only Czech and Slovak structures.
4) There should be a joint article on panel system buildings, history (e.g. the Ronan Point collapse in the UK).
5) There is no reason for a separate article on LPS buildings in the Czech Rep or Eastern Europe any more than there is a reason for a separate article on eastern european cars or eastern european women.
6) We English expats use all kinds of local words for things we come into contact with more here than at home - including "obcianka" actually as was mentioned above though we use it to refer to our residence permit cards - because that's what we have to show when someone in a bank or whatever asks for our "obcianka". Another example would be "cukraren" because there isn't really an equivalent sit-down business in English (actually cafe's sell the same range of things, but that word is already taken as the translation for kaviaren), it doesn't mean we could use those words with non-expats and they would have any idea what we are talking about.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.237.234.5 (talk) 22:33, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terminology 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050430193617/http://lgi.osi.hu/ethnic/csdb/results.asp?idx=no&id=90 to http://lgi.osi.hu/ethnic/csdb/results.asp?idx=no&id=90
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Let us link these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture Zezen (talk) 19:36, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ideology: brutalism