Talk:Los Angeles Chinese massacre of 1871

message: Hi there! This page mentions twice that it was the largest lynching in American history, which is also claimed by the March 14, 1891 page. That page also has a note that claims that its the largest lynching excluding massacres such as this one because the targets of that lynching were predetermined. Can someone clarify? Should a note be added to this page to clarify that? Giovanni.iaboni99 (talk) 06:10, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I, too, am wondering if this was the largest lynching in US history. For example, at the Elaine race riot, between 100 to 237 black people were killed by a white mob. And at the Tulsa race riot, as many as 300 black people were killed. QuizzicalBee (talk) 08:34, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Largest lynching? 

message: I realize that, most likely, the names are listed in the article the way they're reported in the source material, which is unfortunate, because "Ah" (阿) is not actually part of six of the names; it's a prefix, traditionally used in rural or southern Chinese dialects, in front of given names or kinship terms to express familiarity. See here, e.g. IceKarmaॐ 23:14, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victims' names 

message: hi
After reading some of the material, I wanted to check the refs for a couple of points. In particular, the claim that:
"It estimated the mob was about 500 persons, which would have constituted eight percent of the city's population of nearly 6,000 persons, including all men, women and children."
The ref I checked is locked and, as far as I can tell, only part of the first column is available without an account: Paul M. De Falla, "Lantern in the Western Sky", The Historical Society of Southern California Quarterly, 42 (March 1960), 57–88 (Part I), and 42 (June 1960), 161–185 (Part II); via JSTOR; accessed 3 February 2018.
Can someone with JSTOR access add quotes to the ref? It is a little disconcerting to not be able to check the ref. Chaosdruid (talk) 14:26, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  refs 

message: The police officer's name is spelled two different ways in this article: Jesus Bilderrain and Jesús Birderrain.  Which is correct?  173.88.246.138 (talk) 21:11, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling discrepancy

message: Thanks for working to improve the article. The structure of this article needs work per the Manual of style. The lead  is a summary of the article so the summary section needs to eventually be deleted. It was probably added due to the extensive detail and poorly formed first paragraphs in each section. Expanding the lead into a few paragraphs that summarize the entire article is probably the first step. Improving the first paragraph in each section could proceed at the same time.
Tagging you @Westcork1916 - Fettlemap (talk) 20:03, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  I've been hesitant to update any of the earlier posts, mostly due to the prior edit warring over the Lead.  But there are currently several redundant sentences, factual inaccuracies, and sentences with repeated words. Baby steps. Westcork1916 (talk) 23:10, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Format of article 

message: I recommend formatting the victim names in a table for better readability
Chee Long Tong (Gene Tong)                                        	Doctor, shot through the head and hanged                                                 	Chin Wa Company
Wa Sin Qua, resident of Negro Alley                               	received eight shots in the abdomenand legs                                              	Chin Wa Company
Chang Wan,  resident of the Doctor Tong's house                   	hanged                                                                                   	Chin Wa Company
Leong Quai                                                        	hanged                                                                                   	Chin Wa Company
Joung Burrow                                                      	shot through the head and left wrist                                                     	Chin Wa Company
Ah Long, cigar maker                                              	hanged                                                                                   	Nin Yung Company
Wong Chim, storekeeper                                            	hanged                                                                                   	Nin Yung Company
Tong Wan, just arrived from San Francisco                         	shot, stabbed and hanged                                                                 	Nin Yung Company
Ah Loo, just arrived from China a week before                     	hanged                                                                                   	Hap Waa Company
Wan Foo, cook                                                     	hanged                                                                                   	Nin Yung Company
Day Kee, came from Sidney                                         	hanged                                                                                   	
Ho Hing, cook from San Francisco                                  	hanged                                                                                   	Sam Yep Company
Ah Waa, cook                                                      	hanged                                                                                   	Nin Yung Company
Ah Cut, liquor maker                                              	shot in the abdomen and extremities                                                      	Sam Yep Company
Lo Hoy                                                            	hanged                                                                                   	Nin Yung Company
Ah Wan, cook                                                      	hanged                                                                                   	Nin Yung company
Wing Chee, cook                                                   	shot and hanged                                                                          	Sam Yep Company
Ah Wing, the first victim                                         	hanged                                                                                   	
Fun Yu, one of the men who came from San Francisco to kill Yo Hing	died October 27th from a gunshot wound to the head sustained on the night of the massacre	Nin Yung company
Won Choy, the brother of Yut Ho                                   	died October 27th. He was shot in the neck during the initial affray                     	
There was one other victim named by Yo Hing in a letter to the Los Angeles Daily Star.  However, Yo Hing's comments are contradictory since he states Yu Tak was killed, and then in the same letter, implies Yu Tak is in jail.  
Los Angeles Daily Star, Volume 3, Number 442, 30 October 1871
Won Yu Tak killed Bob Thompson and also shot at the Sheriff seven or eight months ago, on Commercial street, when the woman was arrested, and a horse killed. He told me he shot at the Sheriff and killed the horse. He belonged to the Ning Yung Company, and was shot and hanged in the riot. He wore an armor on his body nobody could shoot through and thought no one could kill him. I think many good Chinamen will leave Los Angeles and not come back. A musician who came down on the steamer before the riot was killed. He was a very good fellow, honest, did nothing wrong. The Doctor was very good honest man.
Yu Tak's company are going to try to get him out because he fights well, and let the other fellow hang because he all the time afraid and no do anything. Westcork1916 (talk) 22:31, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not like the segregation of this content into a table. It is distracting to the article as a whole by placing emphasis on names and what happened. Readers eyes will be drawn to the table which then emphasizes this aspect and disrupts the flow of the article. Prose is generally preferred on Wikipedia with lists being created for specific reasons. Cheers, Fettlemap (talk) 23:08, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the feedback.  I'll defer to your wisdom. Westcork1916 (talk) 01:01, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victim names formatted as a table 

message: The Los Angeles Chinese Massacre of 1871 was an act of mob brutality that resulted in the murder of eighteen Chinese residents on October 24, 1871.  The Massacre's immediate cause emanates from a conflict between rival huiguan, the Nin Yung, and Hong Chow. 
The day before the massacre, Won Choy, attempted to kill Yo Hing, for the abduction of his sister, Yut Ho. The following day, another skirmish occurred, this time, Won Choy received a fatal gunshot wound to the neck. Officer Jesus Bilderain responded to the scene and was shot inside the Coronel building while attempting to arrest one of the gunmen. Several civilians assisted the police, including a farmer named Robert Thompson who was shot in the chest. Soon after, the Sheriff arrived and deputized a group of men with instructions to guard the Coronel building and prevent any occupants from escaping.  Thompson was taken to an apothecary on Main street where he died two hours later. Following the news of Thompson's death, residents of Los Angeles started to congregate around the Coronel Adobe. Members of the crowd, shot at the doors and windows of the building. At nine o'clock p.m., a door was battered-down and the occupants dragged outside and towards makeshift gallows. According to reports, some in the crowd tried to calm the group and preclude the slayings including Robert M. Widney who would go on to become the district judge presiding over the sunsequent trials. The massacre ended around 9:30 pm, when the Sheriff "called for twenty-five armed volunteers on the side of law and order to preserve the peace and guard the building until this morning."
Eighteen Chinese men where killed that night, and another two would later die from their injuries, including Won Choy. Those killed represented over 10% of the small Chinese population of Los Angeles at the time, which numbered 172 prior to the massacre.  The Coroner's inquest resulted in forty-nine indictments, containing the names of one hundred and fifty individuals. Seven men were convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to imprisonment in the State penitentiary. However, an appeal to the California Supreme Court reversed the convictions and remitted the cases back to Widney's court. District Attorney Cameron E. Thom decided against retrying the cases and freed the accused in the spring of 1873. Westcork1916 (talk) 02:33, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: This appears to be a copy of the summary. It is not clear what you are proposing. A bit of the summary can be used to expand the lead but this is way too much to merge. The lead is not that bad but could be improved. See WP:LEAD. Thanks for your work. Fettlemap (talk) 03:25, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm suggesting replacing the the current lead with the above, and then eliminating the Summary. Westcork1916 (talk) 00:00, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Important elements of the lead would be eliminated. That will not work. Cheers, Fettlemap (talk) 00:04, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: What would you consider are the important elements that are not already included in the above text? Westcork1916 (talk) 13:28, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: A bit of the summary can be used to expand the lead but this is way too much to merge. The lead is not that bad but could be improved. See WP:LEAD. Thanks for your work. Fettlemap (talk) 13:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to merge the Summary with the Lead