Talk:Ancient Egypt/Archive 2

message: After much research into the actuall beleifs of the Ancient Egyptians - 
I have come under the impression that the following text : "Motivating and organising these activities were a socio-political and economic elite that achieved social consensus by means of an elaborate system of religious belief under the figure of a (semi)-divine ruler (usually male) from a succession of ruling dynasties and which related to the larger world by means of polytheistic beliefs." - may be incorrect.
The ancient egyptians did believe in a single entity that produced many groups of sub-gods..
This would suggest a different ideology. A possible reference to deism - [] or Gnostic [] due to it's mystery aspect - Henotheist [] due to the different aspects of the religon in various locals of Egypt - Pantheism [] Due to multiple aspects of relating nature with the divine "
Under the current definition of the above terms - it is my beliefe that the text in the original article should be changed to to "Motivating and organising these activities were a socio-political and economic elite that achieved social consensus by means of an elaborate system of religious belief under a general theist [] belief system "
This is referenced in the book by Dr. Ramses Seleem "The Egyptian Book of Life"  on page 5.
The Creation - 
Atum-Raa (God) exsited before any notation of space or time.
Atum-Raa uttered the creation word to create sub-dieties or the eight primordials.
These were the following:
Kek & Keket -
Heh & HeheNunu & Nunit -
Emen & Emenet -
These primordials in turn created offspring -
Tehuty (Hermes) [] -
Ptah &
Khnemu
With the reference to Atum-Raa - it is feasible to suggest that a monotheistic approach to the spiritual ideology is present.
--Maa-Kheru 20:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polytheistic Ideology is a possible misclassification 

message: Hello. I am also a newcomer. I would like to adress the fallacy of Egyptian being Europeans or people who today would be considered white. Clearly, from the Egyptian peoples depictions of themselves they are a people who by todays standards would be defined as black. Though I find the issue alone unimportant, in the context of the current state of the racialization of people around the globe this point should be noted. There are far too many films, movies and books published by academics that may be perceived as propoganda spreading the notion that somehow these people could not be "black". My point is not made on the grounds of biology as race is not a biological category recognized by any credible scientific body, but rather an acknowledgement from a "white" person that had these people been living today they would be considered "black". To those would will inevitably argue that this point is unimportant to the understanding of who the Egyptians were, please consider the psychological effect that the "whitenening" of arguably one of the greatests civilizations to grace the earth has on a "black" child when he/she looks at the drawings and statues of other "black" people. In my opinion the closests match to the facial features, as well as the style of art of the Egyptians would have to be the modern day Ethiopians. 
Certain Kings or Pharaohs & noble egyptians are depicted with blue eyes in the Museums in cairo & in other Museums, I can email you some pictures. Usually the africans were depicted as shall I say africans & quite often they were depicted as servants, my email is mantra@spraci.zzn.com - I can send you some pictures, I have been studying egyptology for 20 years, certain kings & pharoahs were depicted with dazzling blue eyes, even jewels were used to exemplify their blue eye colour at times & we can not deny this, note only 1 in 6 americans have blue & green eyes anyway & we should not deny their culture & I am not a american either, I live in Australia & have a greek & italian background, note very close to egypt & I have green eyes, though some of family has blue eyes & brown eyes ? Also I am not saying that all egyptians were caucasian, but many of the ruling egyptians were, their is a great variety of evidence which proves this, but most of all the egyptians themselves depicted themselves, for eg: noble classes of egyptians as having blue eyes. Their is also evidence which suggests that certain Pharaohs & Nobles had a nubian african background, darkish hair, eyes & skin & evidence also suggests that certain Pharaohs & Nobles had a mediteranean background with fair to olive skin with brown eyes & brown hair. We note that their is
10,000 years of history here to deal with in regards to ancient egypt & egypt is North Africa, near the middle east, close to the levant being israel-lebanon-Jordan-Syria also a boats ride to southern europe for example italy & greece where my family come from. And dont be hard on the so called whites after all only 1 in 6 americans are white anyway & they should not be ignored even though they are a minority in this world. Egypt was a multicultural society, much evidence suggests that the ruling classes were often white but they were not exclusively white. Note the original wooden statue of the Egyptian King Hor (circa 1783 - 1633 BC) is inlaid with striking blue eyes.(On display at the Cairo Museum), face showing the Nordic eye coloring.
Thank You. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.52.137.206 (talk) 05:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Race 

message: This page was vandalized but the section cannot easily be removed. Please see the nonsense text about pyramids between sections 1 and 2. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.56.222.73 (talk) 22:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page vandalized between sections 1 and 2 

message: Hi there, I'm one of the editors involved with the influenza page. We are looking for some academic references or discussion of ancient Egyptian animal agriculture. In particular, any information on if they had pigs and waterfowl/fishfarms in the same areas. If anybody has information on this, please drop a note on the [talk page]. Thank you. TimVickers 21:24, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for expert advice

message: Shouldn't there be maps in this article? I think I've seen maps of ancient Egypt in other articles (if only Seleucid EgyptPtolemaic EgyptUpper and Lower Egypt).... Xaxafrad 05:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I found one: Egypt at the height of the Hittite Empire. Most of the other images in the Egypt section of commons are in German, and those are the better ones. Xaxafrad 05:34, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No maps? 

message: This article does require clean-up. --Der4 10:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean-Up

message: I noticed a short mention in the Culture section about the diet. I had heard that terrible dental health was a direct consequence of their diet. The sandy environment and their technique for making flour caused the bread to be very coarse, so over time their teeth would be worn down. This happened to everyone, whether they were common folk or nobles. I could probably find some decent sources and write something up, then add it to the culture section. Any objections? Thanks.  --Wtt 23:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culture & Diet 

message: Have been visiting egypt recently and taken some high definition photographs you can find them on my userpage [] if they are of any use... Merlin-UK 21:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Photographs

message: From the article:
:It is also contentiously disputed as to whether or not the Egyptians had some understanding of electricity and if the Egyptians used engines or batteries. The relief at Dendera is interpreted in various ways by scholars. The topic of the Saqqara Bird is controversial, as is the extent of the Egyptians' understanding of aerodynamics. It is unknown for certain if the Egyptians had kites or gliders.
I have no real egyptological knowledge, but this seems really like one of those widely debunked pseudoscience things. I would remove it, but I'm not qualified to say for sure. Am I right? Atropos 21:59, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this really contentiously disputed?

message: The following section was recently deleted from the article by a user:
The sarcophagus found in the great pyramid has been recently re-examined. According to the author Nigel Appleby ('Hall of the Gods') the holes drilled in the sides were considered to have been drilled at a speed and bore rate that cannot be reproduced today. Independent published corroboration by scientists and engineers is awaited for both of these claims. 
I didn't add the section but I'm not sure I understand the reason for the deletion.--Markisgreen 03:27, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because this kind of stuff comes up frequently and is always pseudohistorical and pseudoscientific nonsense which is not corroborated by Egyptology. Thanatosimii 04:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  deletion of recent development 

message: Why is there a redirect from "Ancient Egyptian Warfare" to this page?  I don't think that there should be a redirect, as there is nothing on this page about ancient egyptian warfare.  could someone please fix this? --Onceonthisisland 14:51, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  why is there a redirect? 

message: got any info on this? I've only got some info in Dutch language. — Xiutwel ♫☺♥♪ (talk) 09:14, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  grain as money 

message: Looking at the edit history, this page seems to be getting a lot of vandalism, some of which is not getting caught right away.  I would like to request protection for this page. Jeff Dahl 23:08, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: I removed a claim about steel being invented and found inside the great pyramid. The statement was cited, but if you read the cited article, at the very end, author Larry Orcutt states "It would seem, then, that the iron plate found by J.R. Hill in 1837 is not contemporary with the construction of the pyramid, but rather dates to the post-medieval (Islamic) period sometime between the 16th and 18th centuries." Jeff Dahl 17:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steel in pyramid claim 

message: The article claimed:
:"It is unknown how the Egyptians shaped and worked granite. A clue is found in the exquisite granite carvings of the Yoruba in West Africa. For years researchers could not fathom how they were carved so smoothly until contemporary workmen demonstrated the simple system of rubbing the quartz with sand and water."
The answer to the question is right there in the statement, they polished with sand. And how was the granite cut? There is obvious evidence, such as the unfinished obelisk, that workmen used pounder stones made from granite or diorite to simply hammer and grind their way through the material, it is not some unsolved mystery. Jeff Dahl 15:23, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You removed a section that you deemed "pseudo-science" that was in fact unscientific. You removed a historical interpretation, without providing the evidence that contradicts the section (no evidence does, it is an historical theory, if it is pseudo-science, then article on ancient greece must be removed). Unfortunately, the article is locked so I cannot revert it for now. Please be more careful in your reversions. YousefSalah 00:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this in reference to the edit about granite working, or is this in reference to one of my other edits? I am always very careful in my edits, and I will be especially so in this article. A word of caution however, simply reverting people's good faith edits without addressing any of the concerns that led them to make that edit may hamper good communication and cooperation. Jeff Dahl 21:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing claim about granite 

message: I have made an "economy" section and grouped the "agriculture" and "taxation" sections under it. Is it good this was or was it better before? -Icewedge 04:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As of now, it seems OK to me. But I restored the Dynasty infobox that you deleted, I'm not sure if it was your intent to delete it. I think the infobox is better than the inline text list, which could be removed. Jeff Dahl 16:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economy section 

message: I am going to remove the bit in the intro that makes mention of the "Heiress theory," an old theory  that the pharaoh derived his right to rule from marrying the daughter of the previous pharaoh. This idea has been debunked repeatedly, just do a google search on "Heiress theory" if you need to be convinced. Although some pharaohs did marry their full or half sisters, probably to cement their foothold as pharaoh (especially those would be pharaohs that were not of royal origin), there are quite a few pharaohs that did not, instead choosing non-royal chief wives. This is an old theory that is no longer considered accurate. Jeff Dahl 23:56, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Heiress theory" 

message: Thanks for your efforts cleaning up ancient Egypt. I removed an image you put on the article because it is really low quality and does not really reflect wiki's best work. I would like to include images in the article that exemplify more than a single idea at once. For the art section, I was thinking of having an image of Hatshepsut, which would show the distorted 2-D perspective and the use of art for a political purpose all at once. I am hoping we can find a really good quality image on the commons for this purpose. This same logic should hold true for other images on the article, but we don't want to end up with too many, or it will seem crowded.
I appreciate your efforts, and don't hesitate to ask questions or to discuss content. Jeff Dahl 01:53, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also I was thinking of using an image from Hatshepsut's temple at dier el-Bahari showing her expedition to punt for the trade section. If we can find a nice, crisp image of the scene of them transporting those incense trees, or something like that, it would be nice. Otherwise, an image of porters transporting boxes/platters of trade goods on their shoulders would be another choice. Jeff Dahl 02:27, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Glad to see you have been doing some work on the religion section of ancient Egypt. Do you have any books we can cite for this section? Thanks, Jeff Dahl 22:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article [[ancient Egypt]]