Talk:Kabuki

message: I have added a section on pop culture references. I think this is important, as it highlights the prominence of kabuki both inside Japan and in the West; I very very much hope that this does not, however, become a long trivia section loaded with tons of tons of pop culture references. It was essentially created to accomodate the recent addition of a reference to the Slipknot drummer. As to whether or not this comment serves no purpose and ought to be removed, I'm making no judgements right now.
My main purpose in posting this here talk page comment is to ask for opinions or suggestions on what this section might be called. We can't say "Kabuki in popular culture," as kabuki was very much a part of popular culture itself through the Meiji period and possibly later, though it has become more formalized and stodgy-feeling lately. And I don't want to simply say "Kabuki outside Japan" or something like that, since that would include actual kabuki performances and such. Maybe "Kabuki in popular culture today" or the like is the best we can do. LordAmeth 23:42, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see what you mean, and "non-traditional popular culture" is somewhat clumsy (and perhaps misleading).  What about "References to kabuki in popular culture" or "Pop-cultural references to kabuki", or something along those lines?  The "references" is usually understood, but since we're dealing with a subject that is itself (at least arguably) pop-culture...  On the other hand, I suppose we could simply say "Kabuki in popular culture" after all, and hope that our readers draw kabuki's own pop-culture status and impact from the article.  Right now, I don't think the section is needed at all, so I've removed it -- the Slipknot drummer wears a noh mask, according to his article, so I've removed the bit about him from this page, and I placed a sentence about the anime references in the history section under "Kabuki today," where it seems to fit along with the movie appearances by kabuki actors. Shimeru 04:14, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pop culture references 

message: I have reviewed this article, and overall, I think it's very well written, and would probably give it a B or B+ grade. However, I've noticed several issues which are significant enough that I don't think it warrants passing this in accordance to the good article criteria:
:GA review (see here for criteria)
#It is reasonably well written.
#:a (prose):  b (MoS): 
#It is factually accurate and verifiable.
#:a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
#It is broad in its coverage.
#:a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
#It follows the neutral point of view policy.
#:a (fair representation):  b (all significant views): 
#It is stable.
#:
#It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
#:a (tagged and captioned):  b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales): 
#Overall: 
#:a Pass/Fail: 
I don't think the article is broad enough to cover everything. I noticed a significant number of red links still in the article, particularly near the end. All three of the famous plays listed are red links, and very little is said about famous playwrights. The 'major theatres in operation' section is really just a list, so this should be written out and expanded. The items listed in the 'see also' section are mainly Japanese words, and without adequate descriptions, are pretty much meaningless to a non-Japanese reader. The article could use better english descriptions for Japanese words at other areas in the article as well.
It's coming a long way, though. Hope these suggestions help! Dr. Cash 18:36, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much for your suggestions and guidance. This article, being on such a broad topic, clearly has a long way to go, but I think we've made great progress recently, and will continue to do so. All those redlinks are on my personal "to-do" list, and I hope to get around to them sometime within the next few months. Nevertheless, I really don't know if that should count towards the completeness of this article. The question is not whether or not kabuki-related subjects are well-covered on Wikipedia in general, but whether this article by itself provides what it should, which is a general overview. LordAmeth 10:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm a bit puzzled by that, myself.  The rest is pretty helpful, though.  I'm going to see what I can do about explaining the Japanese terms... Shimeru 04:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm working on an article on Yoshitsune Senbon Zakura in my Sandbox, which I should be able to finish and post within the next day or two. The other plays listed I have not read, but I could certainly post a briefer summary... LordAmeth 10:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Re: my recent edit of readding information - I apologize to undo your work, Shimeru, and I wouldn't want to think that we're working at cross-purposes. In this particular section, I think you removed information which was relevant and I felt the need to readd it. Firstly, that kabuki is not unusual in world traditions in devoting a full day to the theater, thus the re-adding of the phrase "as well as in other cultures around the world".  Secondly, the idea of escape from reality into a culture of play - entire journal articles, if not entire books, have been written on the culture of play and the societal role of festivals and carnivals in serving as a metaphor for another plane of existence where the real world is pushed aside, etc etc. This is very important to the way that kabuki functioned in the Edo period and the role it played in people's lives. LordAmeth 10:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem.  Perhaps we should cover that in more detail, though?  The comment about other cultures seemed out of place to me in an article about kabuki, and the "escape" comment currently doesn't offer any of that cultural context. Shimeru 19:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article review

message: Onnagata should not be redirected to Kabuki.  Though they are associated, traditional onnagata and kabuki theater were in competition with each other, especially during the early Meiji era.Hemkito 20:11, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be curious to learn more about this. I've taken a postgraduate level course on Japanese theatre, and read a bit about it, and have never heard of any kind of onnagata tradition outside of kabuki, nor any competition therefore between it and mainstream kabuki. LordAmeth 21:42, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I second Lord Ameth's notes, are you perhaps confusing onnagata (male actors playing female roles) with the all-female body of actors of the Takarazuka Revue?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.245.223.207 (talk) 17:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd just like to say that if onnagata doesn't have it's own article and redirects here, there should at least be a definition in this article. In the current version, the word appears twice, and no explanation is given for its meaning, which isn't helpful to those who reached Kabuki through the onnagata redirect.--Boffob (talk) 18:34, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Onnagata redirection 

message: Traditional Kabuki players were not prostitutes, as the first history section, "Female Kabuki" suggests.  This mistake stems from the popular misconception that geisha were prostitutes, rather than escort entertainers.  The subsequent Japanese that is referred to, 歌舞妓 (Kabuki), presented as a colloquial misnomer, centers around the last character 妓 (gi), which indicates geisha. Regardless of whether this misrepresentation is also present in the reference source, the use of the word "prostitute" is misleading at best, and more appropriately regarded as factually incorrect.  In truth, the geisha culture explicitly forbade sexual acts of its members. I propose actual use of the word geisha with link to the appropriate article, or at the very least, the appropriate translation of "escort entertainer" or equivalent.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.180.76.159 (talk) 16:34, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't agree with your assessment.  Geisha were not prostitutes, but many individual geisha either worked also as prostitutes or had physical relations with their clients for other reasons.  It is also not the correct to state early kabuki performers were not prostitutes, as the traditional founder of the art form was in fact a full-fledged prostitute, and women's kabuki and boys' kabuki were banned because of the connections with prostitution.  The last character of kabuki is also unrelated to the first character of geisha.--96.245.223.207 (talk) 19:01, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Traditional Kabuki Players NOT Prostitutes 

message: Where are the most important aspects of Kabuki mentioned in this article? The reference to costumes is slightly noticeable when talking about Performance, but the kimonos, kumadori, and katsura are not specifically mentioned at all. Color is the most important thing about Kabuki... There are plays that don't allow costumers to change the original colors of the costume at all, such as Sukeroku (in which Sukeroku wears a black kimono with red and light blue underneath, a blackish indigo umbrella, and socks and a headband of a specific shade of purple). Also, the Kabuki juhachiban, the 18 favorite plays, are neglected from the article. These topics are the most important things about Kabuki, and the article on Kabuki doesn't even recognize their existence... 216.167.172.78 (talk) 02:42, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Costumes? Makeup? Wigs? ...Color? 18 Favorite Plays (juhachiban)? 

message: Are those maintaining this article unaware of the repetition of the first two parts of the history section in the first two paragraphs of its third part? 64.143.221.86 (talk) 21:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redundancy 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is no mention of Kabuki music.
I the Japanese language page, there is a whole section on music (歌舞伎音楽) but I cannot understand the Google translation -- so I have no information to add unfortunately.
DouglasHeld (talk) 23:30, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kabuki music 

message: Stage and production kabuki performance 115.147.9.204 (talk) 11:03, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music 

message: The three main categories of kabuki play are jidaimono (時代物, historical or pre-Sengoku period stories), sewamono (世話物, "domestic" or post-Sengoku period stories), and shosagoto (所作事, "dance pieces").[42] ("Kabuki « MIT Global Shakespeares". Retrieved 8 April 2015.)
The article cited here uses Wikipedia as the source for its own information. Perhaps there's a better one to be used?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.251.223 (talk) 15:51, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for pointing this out; you're right, this wouldn't be a good source to use. I have a book on kabuki I can use as a source in its place.—Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) ( me!) 14:37, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 42