Talk:Mahatma Gandhi/Archive 4

message: Just wondering, since his name was actually Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi and the introduction says so as well, shouldn't the article be under that name instead of Mahatma, which is an adulation/title?Rueben lys 12:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Mahatma Gandhi/Mahatma vs. Mohandas.--Shahab 07:41, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move article to Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi?

message: Please see the changes made in Mahatma Gandhi. The subsection "Artistic depictions" was shortened, and a new daughter article (Artistic depictions of Mahatma Gandhi) created by shifting contents from Mahatma Gandhi. Please see if the changes are ok. 
Also, the subsection "Mahatma" - does it merit a seperate seb-section at all? The thing can be discussed in lead, or in other places, with the mostly believed idea (that Rabindranath Tagore named him Mahatma) stated...and with a footnote describing the other claim(s). Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Artistic depictions" edits and...

message: The following portion needs citation and shortening:
:"Mohandas Gandhi's sleeping arrangements attracted public attention during the winter of 1946-47, when he was trying to quell violence between Muslims and Hindus in the Noakhali district in what is now Bangladesh. It came out that Gandhi was sleeping nightly with his 19-year-old grandniece, Manu. In part this was an effort to stay warm in the winter chill, but Gandhi soon acknowledged there was more to it: he was testing his vow of brahmacharya, or total chastity in thought and deed. If he could spend the night in a woman's embrace without feeling sexual stirrings, it would demonstrate that he had conquered his carnal impulses and become "God's eunuch." It turned out that Manu was not his first brahmacharya lab partner--he'd also recently gotten naked (partly, at least) with another young woman in his extended family, starting when she was 18.
:There were quite a few raised eyebrows in India. One of the most vocal critics was Nirmal Kumar Bose, a university lecturer who served as Gandhi's interpreter in Noakhali. While conceding that no intercourse had taken place (Gandhi and his entourage typically all slept in the same room) Bose protested that the master was exploiting the women, each of whom felt she had a special place in his affections and became "hysterical" if slighted. (Refer the account by author Ved Mehta in his 1976 New Yorker series on Gandhi and his followers.) Gandhi, far from being abashed, vigorously defended himself in meetings, letters, and articles, arguing that making a woman "the instrument of my lust" would be far more exploitative than what he actually did.
:Remarkably, the critics eventually quieted down. Even Bose, who quit in protest and later discussed the issue in a book, My Days With Gandhi, remained an admirer. Gandhi continued to sleep with women until his assassination in 1948, and the matter is little remembered today. The esteem in which Gandhi was held no doubt partly accounts for the lack of repercussions, along with his advanced age. His notoriously eccentric views on sex may have been a factor too. Gandhi believed that sex for pleasure was sinful (for that matter, he felt eating chocolate was sinful), that sexual attraction between men and women was unnatural, and that husband and wife should live together as brother and sister, having sex only for purposes of procreation."
While the sleeping fact has been noted in several literatures (so citation should not be a problem), the portion is much larger in volume than it probably deserves in the article. People with knowledge in this regard are requested to help. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:08, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that this text was deleted long ago  and there was no discussion about it. Do the long term editors here have any idea? --Knverma 13:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This material seems unnecessarily detailed for the Gandhi article, and I agree with the decision to remove most of it.  Perhaps some of it would fit in the article on Brahmacharya, since Gandhi could be considered a prominent modern teacher of that concept. Jeremy Tobacman 20:58, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation needed, shortening needed

message: Did Gandhi beat his wife?
:Yes (I think) in the beginning. He had changed his attitude towards his wife and marriage in South Africa. Rama's arrow 03:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wife beater?

message: Hi - my removal of data from the "legacy" section reflects 4 main concerns (a) this article is too long, (b) no need to list so many statues of Gandhi and (c) the films/video games etc. is all too new and overplayed in importance. "Gandhigiri" deserves one sentence - the rest belongs to the article on the film itself. Also (d) the film poster and postage stamps are to be used to describe the stamps/film in question, not Gandhi - this is a "fair use" issue. Rama's arrow 23:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW postage stamps aren't a copyright issue: they're specifically excluded from copyright law.  See below for a solution to the cultural material. Durova 18:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trimming bottom sections 

message: I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information.  I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list.  Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article.  Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here.  Regards, Durova 18:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultural depictions of Mahatma Gandhi]] 

message: Gandhi was not awarded Noble Prize. Is there any relation between Truth, God and Noble Prize? vkvora 14:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe racist reasons why he never got it.  But also he himself was extremely racist against Africans.  Also, various people, including Freud, accused him of pedophilia.. which, as you mentioned it, has its own rather substantial relationship with men of god.. maybe more in christianity and islam than hinduism, which is more open sexually, but never underestimate the perversions of the powerful.  JeffBurdges 10:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Few years back letters were published regarding why he did not get a noble prize.  He was nominated three times I believe and the third time he was going to be awarded but he died by then.  Previous two times his nomination was rejected because of a combination of various reasons such as 1) Their were some violent incidents that came up during the freedom movement and the committee was unable to differentiate between the two and 2) The usual systematic bias that takes place when the entire committee consists of people from one region.  --Blacksun 18:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I fail to see what you're trying to point out Vkorva2001. This is a bibliographical entry on Ghandi thus must contain as many aspects of him so it should contain his Beliefs and his Legacy which I think are both important. And why does everyone feel the need to say the same argument over and over again, he's a pedophile/racist. Good for him, if you can't think of a real argument against putting the information displayed here then just shut up. Such fallacious arguments are simply a waste of time to read. --Guruparan 03:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Truth is God and Faith in God. 

message: As I understand it, Gandhi wrote extensively about excrement, latrine cleaning, and enemas (cute quote "The bathroom is a temple. It should be so clean and inviting that anyone would enjoy eating there").  Can anyone who knows about such writings add a subsection to principles?  JeffBurdges 10:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toilet stuff missing from Principles 

message: Can we really speak to Gandhi's motivation for leading his life in such a manner? If there is a legitimate source for this claim then obviously its fine, but if it is simply speculation, however well founded, it should be removed.Trojan traveler 00:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: All this was mainly done to raise the status of India's depressed classes and draw them into the freedom struggle.

message: I read in A.J. Jacobs' novel The Know-It-All: One Man's Humble Quest to Become the Smartest Person in the World (good book; read it) that Gandhi practiced secret atheism and was at least a little sexually promiscuous in his youth before he fully embraced religion and a life of being good.  I didn't see any of this in the article, and I don't have the book on me at the moment so I can't make sure my memory isn't fooling me, so I thought I'd run it past people on the discussion page before it got included in the article.  The Know-It-All has a second-hand account of Gandhi's life (the facts are taken from the Encyclopedia Britannica) so that can probably be used as a reference.  If you back these claims, please feel free to edit the article accordingly.  Thanks!  --pie4all88 07:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Gandhi nowhere mentions about secret atheism in his autobiography, but yes he does admit that because of the bad company during childhood days he consumed meat and landed with a brothel, but no such bad thing happened, more details here. He does admit of his carnal lust during his teen days  here. I suggest you to read the The Story of My Experiments with Truth, he does not hide anything in this book, but I feel that claiming gandhi to be sexually promiscuous is simply blowing things out of proportion. Having said all these, he completely becomes a celibate later on... --vineeth 11:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, thanks a lot for the response, vineeth. --pie4all88 13:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Secret Atheism and sexual promiscuity?

message: *GITA ACCORDING TO GANDHI I think this to be important for the mainpage.
:Austerlitz 88.72.14.143 18:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for mentioning this wonderful commentary.  I have a copy of the Desai edition of it and will add a mention of it in the main article. Buddhipriya 06:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mahatma Gandhi on the [[Bhagavadgita]]

message: Theresanother 12:48, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motion to add in sentence within Gandhi's Principles  "and ends" after the word extremes 

message: Some of the text has been copied and pasted from this website:
*http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Mahatma_Gandhi
Most Notibly the Photograph from 1899 of Ghandi in the Ambulance Corps is Plagiarized.
I also Found some Plagiarized text from this page too:
*http://www.hindu.com/mag/2005/10/23/stories/2005102300210300.htm
--Wiki Bender 04:29, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism 

message: Why does the last part of the intro saying that his teachings inspired civil rights leaders include God?
Terrifying Angel 23:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: God?

message: I have added citation requests on the following sentences:
*"As he had done in the South African War, Gandhi urged support of the British in World War I and was active in encouraging Indians to join the army."
*"His rationale, opposed by many others, was that if he desired the full citizenship, freedoms and rights in the Empire, it would be wrong not to help in its defence."
Is this true? If so, he certainly changed his opinion before and during World War II. nirvana2013 12:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Struggle for Indian Independence 

message: Gandhi was an anarchist!
He wanted to build a stateless society in India after its independence. See:
http://calpeacepower.org/0201/PDF/was_gandhi_an_anarchist.pdf 
Shahab 16:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. His vision was very similar to Christian anarchism. nirvana2013 13:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gandhi was an anarchist 

message: I came here to remove a link from a spammer I've been chasing and was  bit surprised to see the state of them on a featured article. Both the external links section the ones under "see also" seem to have got out of hand.  I would put up a  tag, but since this is an FAs thought a request here might be a better approach.  Is anyone up for reviewing them?  -- Siobhan Hansa 17:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: In line no. 27 it has been qouted that the Dandi March was an open call for the British to quit India in the year 1942.
According to my knowledge the Dandi March started the Civil Disobedience and took place in 1929.I sincerely hope that the editor will take notice of this error and correct it immediately.
--Kartikeyrinwa 14:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the main article on that says it was in 1930 (see Salt Satyagraha). I'll review that article and correct this section as needed. Ahudson 22:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Error of Fact 

message: Could we swap the “alternate name” in the summary box to “alternative name”?  I know Americans struggle with these two,  but still, it would look better. 88.110.97.3 17:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Language pettiness

message: In the infobox, why is the native name in Hindi and not Gujarati? --Wolftalk 19:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: There is a paragraph at the end of the section on his assassination that doesn't make any sense to me:
Bharat owed to Pakistan a debt of 55 Crores whereas Pakistan owed to Bharat a debt of Rs. 300 Crores. Government had already decided to recover Rs. 245 Crores from Pakistan. Gandhi began a fast unto death and made Pakistan free of debt of Rs. 245 crores it owed to India on the basis of which, Pakistan managed to attack Kashmir for the first time after Independence! Nathuram Godse then slayed Gandhi on 30th January. Shri Ram Manohar Lohiya said, "Nathuram's way was wrong, yet the reasons for his agitation were right and factual. The egos of leaders especially those of Mahatma's are terrible!" The interesting point to note is that Nathuram Godse was himself a Satyagrahi and an ardent follower of Gandhi's Harijan seva. He had actively participated in inter-caste Marriage and functions of Dalits. He was in short a Satyagrahi and a Dalit Activist.[17]
I don't know much about this subject, so I'll leave it to the more knowledgeable to render an agreement.  I just wanted to point out something that seems really out of place.
  feb. 23, 2007
The page linked to is severely POV and in any case the information about his assasin should be on its own page. I am removing this until someone can add a more authoritative source for the Rs. 245 Crore claim. I might add that using "Bharat" when discussing India in English is very bad form. I am reverting.
Viz 23:26, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assassination question 

message: The age 8 years mentioned in 3rd para of "Early life" section is to be changed to 18 years. 195.150.224.71 00:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  about 3rd para of Early life section 

message: i'd like to add an external link but the article is locked.  i would like to have an inter-page link from the criticism section to the external link.  can anyone tell me why the page is locked to me?
anyway, here is the link: http://history.eserver.org/ghandi-nobody-knows.txt
i hope someone else will be able to link this article with the wiki article.  the article is a very worthwhile read and well written.  i'll be damned if the writing style fooled me into thinking it's all true without being so--it's so authoritatively and well written.  an amazing article of criticism    69.105.39.16 20:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  criticism  

message: "Making his own clothes—the traditional Indian dhoti and shawl woven with a charkha, he lived on a simple vegetarian diet." -- Um, one spins with a charkha. One weaves with a loom. -- Writtenonsand 00:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct. However using handlooms Khadi was also manufactured in Gandhiji's ashrams although it is unclear if Gandhiji himself played a part. See this link.--Shahab 18:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure. Just clarifying the vocabulary. :-). -- Writtenonsand 16:08, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Woven with a charkha? No. 

message: Some of the photos of Ghandi when he was younger on this page look like fakes.  Where are they from?
:What pictures do you mean specifically?--Shahab 18:59, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fake Photos 

message: Does anyone know if it is true that Gandhi spoke with an Irish inflection due to being taught English by an Irish missionary priest? --Frenk Melk 03:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if that was discovered to be true, it is not very significant considering that his accent would have still been more "Indian". Interesting point you raise however. In some aspects the Irish and Indian accents are similar, such as both using /eː/ and /oː/. GizzaChat © 06:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, judge for yourself ! Hear this 1931 audio clip. Abecedare 07:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish Accent? 

message: Most of this "discussion" page is infested with tabloid-esque allegations of racism and paedophilia without any evidence.My inclination is that it is being written by ultra-cynical teenage atheists who cant except that a religious man could be such a fine moral role model.I think I will have to create an article called the "Atheist Taliban" after reading this tripe.
Honest Agnostic —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.101.213.232 (talk) 14:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as it's just on the Talk pages and not in the actual articles, it's not a real problem -- the Talk pages are a place for people to present their questions or problems, so that the articles can be made better. I.e., if somebody presents a silly accusation on the Talk page, then somebody else might add a good cite to the article showing why accusations of that type are silly. (Conversely, if critics have good evidence that they're right, then this probably should go in the article.) I don't think that Gandhiji himself told his critics to "shut up" -- he listened to what they had to say, and then patiently explained why he was right. :-) -- Writtenonsand 14:57, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ANTI-GANDHI NONSENSE 

message: I'm confused. This article says Mahatma Gandhi was assassinated at Birla Bhavan, but the sources I've read said he was shot while walking in the garden behind the Gandhi Smriti in New Delhi. I was about to link a photo I took of the purported assassination site, when I was stopped in my tracks after reading this. Could someone with more knowledge about this please clarify? (The Gandhi Smriti assassination site photo is here).  JGHowes talk -  00:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is correct. The photograph is also correct. How is this possible? Because Birla House (or Birla Bhavan) is the name of the place and Gandhi Smriti of the autonomous Gandhi propogation body(which has its campus located in Old Birla House, 5 Tees January Marg, New Delhi.) Cheers.--Shahab 13:54, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for clearing that up, Shahab. I've edited this article, and also Birla House, accordingly  JGHowes talk -  21:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Site of assassination 

message: At about the 25% point thru the article, is found the following sentence.  What does it mean?  "He did not disagree with the party's move, but felt that if he resigned, his popularity with Indians would cease to stifle the party's membership, that actually varied from communists, socialists, trade unionists, students, religious conservatives, to those with pro-business convictions."  I think there must have been some meaning intended, but sometimes sentences get too convoluted. Friendly Person 18:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The sentence probably refers to his resignation in 1936 (not the one of 1934) when he felt that his popularity was stifling the diversity of membership in the popularity and points of view varying from him were not getting a chance in the party due to his strong grassroot influence. See this link. Cheers--Shahab 16:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomprehensible Sentence 

message: so should we add the fact that he drunk pee? the dirty bastard?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.251.49.194 (talk) 14:37, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: first of all, drinking pee isn't so bad: it's sterile, but yes, gandhi did drink cow pee, which he thought had healthy property.  i would say this would not be important enough to put into the article, except that gandhi considered himself a nutrition expert, and it is a criticism that people have made of him that he didn't know what he was talking about on subjects of nutrition, therefore this might be appropritate under the criticism section.  you would have to cite the critic, though.Itsnoteasybeingbrown 08:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  pee drinker? 

message: Kindly change the "Australian Flag" appearing beside the "Place of Birth"
:Take a closer look. It's not the Flag of Australia at all. In fact the pictured flag was the official flag of the British Raj. This signifies that Gandhi was born in British India and not in the modern republic of India (of which there was no concept at that time). Cheers--Shahab 19:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change the Flag appearing beside "Place of Birth" 

message: Can you please fix this grammar error that is in the document. Go to the place where it says Assasination as a heading and go to the place where it talks about his last words and the next paragraph has a no quote in the beginning but a quote at the end. Here is what I am talking about. This is the paragraph with the mistake in it.
 Friends and comrades, the light has gone out of our lives, and there is darkness everywhere, and I do not quite know what to tell you or how to say it. Our beloved leader, Bapu as we called him, the father of the nation, is no more. Perhaps I am wrong to say that; nevertheless, we will not see him again, as we have seen him for these many years, we will not run to him for advice or seek solace from him, and that is a terrible blow, not only for me, but for millions and millions in this country."[16]
---cheers lucky333123 23:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar Error (quotes) =

message: Thanks for fixing the quotes problem.cheers
---cheers lucky333123 02:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Thanks for fixing quotes

message: http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume8/j8_2_1.htm
This is a link that seems to be a valid journal article referencing Gandhi's paedophilia. Can someone who's more involved with this article than I am include this information objectively? Any objections to including this if I eventually decide on doing it myself?
Cheers!
Viggyjiggy 22:16, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resurrecting a dead horse and beating on it

message: I am replacing this phrase with Mohandas Gandhi
Cheers!
Viggyjiggy 22:16, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Father of the Nation 

message: Organization was spelled wrong in the Followers section. It was spelled "organisations". Just thought you guys should know.
:Neither spelling is incorrect. See this. In accordance with wikipedia guidelines the spelling established by the first major contributor should be followed. So there is no reason to change the spelling. Cheers--Shahab 07:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organizations is spelled wrong 

message: On January 30 every year, on the anniversary of the death of Mahatma Gandhi, in schools of many countries is observed the School Day of Non-violence and Peace (DENIP), founded in Spain in 1964. In countries with a Southern Hemisphere school calendar, it can be observed on March 30 or thereabouts.
* DENIP: School Day of Non-violence and Peace
* DENIP: School Day of Non-violence and Peace, abstract
--Ayounali 10:07, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  School Day of Non-violence and Peace (DENIP)