Talk:Kayfabe

message: Hi guys, I know pretty much nothing about wrestling but would be interested to know at least some basic facts. I had a look at the kayfabe article and wasn't able to figure out how, and if, it differs from simply "acting". The issue is: if it's just acting then the article could be much shorter, and if it is something different I am not able to grasp that from the article. Is it just me? --Gennaro Prota 17:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kayfabe refers to the acting; however the events are portrayed as real. For example, WWE doesn't acknowledge that Stephanie McMahon and Triple H are married, nor do they recognize their influence behind the scenes. In Carlito's case, he could simply be making up history to suit his character. Your question may be better suited for the talk: Kayfabe page, however. I'm going to copy and paste part of the discussion over there. This page is about Carlito OsFan 22:56, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Kayfabe in the modern form could pretty well be summed up as "just acting"; however, kayfabe throughout history encompassed much more.  It was an overall mindset of "protecting the business", making it look real to outsiders.  Kayfabe was Vince McMahon having Ted DiBiase flown everywhere on a private Lear Jet to make people think he was rich.  Kayfabe was Chris Benoit and Woman travel together and sleep in the same hotel room to put over the idea that Woman was cheating on Kevin Sullivan with Benoit (a situation that became real life later).  Kayfabe was Jerry Lawler and Andy Kaufman brawling on the set of Late Night with David Letterman.  Kayfabe was "Dr. D" David Schultz slapping the crap out of John Stossel because Stossel committed the one cardinal sin that anybody who covered wrestlig could committ at the time--he asked if it was fake.  Kayfabe is a little acting, a little stage magic, and (until recently) a whole lot of covering-up.  That's just my take anyway.  --HBK|Talk 04:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Already addressed on this talk page (see below).  The short answer is that it's been repeatedly deleted, coincidental with the general attitude that Wikipedia's coverage of professional wrestling need not acknowledge much of anything beyond wrestling storylines.  As I have better things to do with my life than engage in edit warring, I gave up.  I did mark it as needing attention for WP Linguistics, but I guess no one over there has taken the bait. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  05:04, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Kayfabe confusion

message: Maybe someone should re-word the part about Diesal and Razor Ramon. At the time Diesal was storyline wise a heel, and not a rival of Triple H(who was also a heel). TJ Spyke 19:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening Paragraph

message: Why is this annoying, ancient term being used to describe storyline events in nearly every wrestling article that Wikipedia has to offer? It's confusing to people who aren't "in the know" and just makes each article it appears in come off as though it was written by some smart-alecky wrestling fan (notice how I refrained from using the word "mark" there). Why don't we leave words like "kayfabe" where they belong: in the grave with the carnival managers who invented them in the early 1900s. It's 2009---can't we as wrestling fans be a little more normal, a little more "professional" when writing articles, instead of coming across as geeky in-the-know types?
209.62.199.144 (talk) 18:51, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: When it is used in an article, it is Wikilinked. And so, readers can also be "in the know". Encyclopedias are meant to educate. If we refrained from using terms and concepts ignorant people are unfamiliar with (in any topic), this would be a pretty useless website. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:57, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not entirely correct. You shouldn't use unfamiliar words just to get readers to click on them. And the goal of every article should be for readers to read that article, not to click away from it unnecessarily. Kafziel Complaint Department: Please take a number 02:11, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Relevance of the term "Kayfabe"

message: I'm aware the information contained in this article is accurate, but it needs to be sourced. Much of it seems like someone watched TV and transcribed what happened. I know that's not the case, in most of the instances, but that's why it needs to be sourced and the whole article could probably use a rewrite. -- Chickenmonkey X  sign?  07:30, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. The article seems to be based partially on gossip amongst Internet-based wrestling fans. While that does not necessarily mean that it is inaccurate, it would be best if reliable sources were cited for each section. Hermiod (talk) 08:02, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Original research

message: This article says Danielson was suspended for strangling Justin Roberts with a camera wire. But another article says Roberts was strangled with his own tie.
Which one's right? --Shreek314 21:27, 9 September 2010
It was his tie. The video proves it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.251.94.170 (talk) 19:42, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Bryan Danielson

message: How about any similarities between kayfabe and fnord?RadioKAOS (talk) 03:27, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Another angle

message: This article is almost word for word an exact copy of The Free Dictionary's 'kayfabe' article.
Even the same words are hyperlinked!
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/kayfabe
Tsk tsk ...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.165.187.206 (talk) 12:33, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the bottom of the The Free Dictionary page its states that its copied from this page so there's nothing wrong.--SteamIron 19:30, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: This article is plagiarized!

message: Isn´t it a break in kayfabe when matt striker appears at the stream of the press conference when he was kidnapped on nxt?--Nakurio (talk) 19:48, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be if there actually was such a thing as kayfabe in 2012.  Let's put it this way: if a mainstream media outlet chose to do a "wrestling is fake"-type story and use this as an example, would the WWE deny it?  I would think that as a publicly-traded company, WWE is subject to more scrutiny and therefore wouldn't.RadioKAOS (talk) 20:46, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: WrestleMania 28 Press conference

message: Someone is vandalizing this article by adding a section about president Bush and his administration.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.16.44 (talk) 06:49, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Why would someone add a bit about president Bush in the wrestling article?

message: It seems an obvious omission, especially for what is otherwise a very detailed article.  Can we have, preferably before the contents box, an explanation of the term's origin or sources?  I read through far too much wrestling trivia just to establish that it wasn't there.  Many thanks in advance. 60.242.50.195 (talk) 13:47, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not so much obvious as absolutely howling. — Scott • talk 13:28, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it keeps getting deleted from the article.  In fact, I believe the same editor has deleted it multiple times, on occasion citing lack of sourcing, but I haven't poured through the revision history to confirm that.  I pointed this out to WP:PW one of the times it was deleted, mentioning that it makes no sense to have an article about a word which fails to at least attempt to explain the meaning of that word, but that was ignored.  Not at all surprising, really.  I've been going back and forth with the regulars on that project for years.  Most of them appear content to drink the Kool-Aid and push the POV that only a finite number of sources exist in the entire world regarding professional wrestling, namely certain websites which do have solid content, but too much of a fanboy bent for my tastes.  Combine this with the "no URL = no verifiability" attitude which pervades thoughout much of the encyclopedia, and you can see the challenge.  The reason why you see so much "wrestling trivia" is because it's reflective of the project's favored sources.  This and Glossary of professional wrestling terms are articles which would benefit from reliable book sources, as a great many wrestling books discuss not only wrestling terminology in general but kayfabe specifically in varying amounts of detail.  There's been a reluctance to use any of those sources even when the books can be found on Google Books. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  05:13, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin of the term

message: The unique approach to kayfabe employed by Bill Watts could probably fill an entire article.  I don't wish to waste my time throwing out numerous examples which will likely be ignored.  My favorite: during the height of the Dick Murdoch-Killer Karl Kox feud in late 1975, Championship Wrestling aired an interview with Murdoch.  He was standing in an All Japan Pro Wrestling ring, and specifically remarked that his absence from the Tri-States territory wasn't because he was injured, but rather that he was in Japan taking part in the tag team tournament with Dusty Rhodes.  That went contrary to what every other promoter and booker at the time would have done.  That promo had other ramifications: Murdoch was a highly popular "gaijin face" in All Japan, similar to Dory and Terry Funk.  Kox appeared on multiple All Japan tours during 1976 with Murdoch, where they faced each other in matches. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  05:13, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Bill Watts

message: It appears that Kayfabe (professional wrestling) was moved to this article title in June 2005.  Since I wasn't around then, I dunno if this was due to limitations of the software or due to negligence, but there is an orphaned revision history and accompanying discussion still floating around out there.  Any admins reading this who may care to fix that? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  03:53, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: And a technical matter

message: Man, this article is the worst "example farm" I've seen in an article yet. I would just cut out a lot of it it myself, but I get the feeling that all the one-line mentions are more recent examples or are more notable than they are given credit for. Since I'm not a WWE fan myself, I can't really judge what's notable and what's not... But all but maybe two of the examples are uncited, so I suppose that someone should just be bold and excise most of it. --V2Blast (talk) 06:45, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still an example farm 

message: The lede claims that kayfabe was a closely guarded secret until 1989, and since the internet it has become an open secret. The citation it uses for the claim that it was a closely guarded secret DOES NOT actually say that it was a closely guarded secret before 1989, it only says that McMahon confessed "once and for all" before the New Jersey State Senate, that wrestling matches were staged events. "Once and for all" indicates the truth, that McMahon was only finally admitting to what everyone already knew for decades. For example, in Season 8, episode 11 of "You Bet Your Life," dated December 19, 1957, pro wrestler Ralph "Red" Berry asked Groucho Marx if he had ever been to a wrestling match, and Marx quipped "no, but I'd love to see one of your rehearsals sometime," to general laughter and applause. I am changing the last three sentences of the first paragraph of the lede to address this.Mmyers1976 (talk) 19:25, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kayfabe "closely guarded secret before 1989" claim dubious 

message: Section "Injuries" says
: These returns are usually given a particular date in order to increase viewership and ticket sales, as the public are promised a star they have wanted to return. Even more often, a wrestler's return will not even be advertised. It will just suddenly happen in order to get a huge pop out of the crowd.
"Usually" means "more often than not", so how can something else happen more often than what usually happens? Rewriting.
Thnidu (talk) 21:55, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "usually" < "more often"? 

message: I'm sorry, but some of the stuff on this page is just laughable. The section about real life being mentioned on screen for instance. "Sheamus has been referred to as being from Ireland." Like seriously? How is this relevant to an article on kayfabe. Does this really need a section? And if there should be a section, only put IMPORANT / HISTORICAL facts in it. Not every single injury someone has in a match etc. "Adrian Neville was injured in a match in 2016". "Nikki Bella was injured in a match in 2015 but kept on wrestling". A lot of the info on this page is useless clutter. It's laughably bad.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.80.71 (talk) 15:15, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page is full of clutter 

message: Maybe an interesting angle for the "Outside of Wrestling"-section. Are all the Hip-Hop "beefs" real? How much kayfabe is in this industry?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.112.116.93 (talk) 08:25, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kayfabe outside of Wrestling: Hip-Hop?